From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Aug 10 13:33:01 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 20:33:01 +0300
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net>
Message-ID: <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <100820011007233964%joe at strout.net>, Joe Strout
<joe at strout.net> writes:

| [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
|    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

| My company is using the PCRE library in an international product.  But
| we're discovering some problems with its UTF-8 support, which is
| causing grief for our Japanese users (and others).  Since (AIUI) Python
| also uses PCRE, I'm wondering if the Python community has encountered
| these problems, and how they've been handled?

python no longer uses pcre, the pcre based regexp module
was replaced by a new unicode-aware implementation called sre (written
by Fredrik Lundh). sre is much faster too...

  -- erno


From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Thu Aug  9 06:48:29 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:48:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and AI (was: AI contest)
References: <3b6d3e72$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com> <3b725bb5.10702165@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n4qjt.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 09:45:28 GMT, Mike Clarkson 
<support at internetdiscovery.com> wrote:
>
>>IMHO the extreme flexibility of data structures and procedures makes Python 
>>a superb language for AI (whatever that is)
>
>I agree. If Python as a language works as CP4E, then it should be able
>to encompass AI. 

You may want to give a look at the Narval project. It is the implementation
of a Agent development framework in Python. The currently released version
works with python 1.5.2, but a 2.x compatible version is due for release
Real Soon Now[tm]

http://www.logilab.org/narval/

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 19 03:43:27 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:43:27 -0400
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <3B7E5390.C6966CAD@stroeder.com> <62vf7.4717$Vs2.403505@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <3B7F6E1F.5F1398E6@engcorp.com>

[quoting style "corrected" by reordering]

liam wrote:
> "Michael Str?der" <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> > Brian Quinlan wrote:
> > > The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> > > constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> > > enough for you.
> >
> > To avoid that another developer in the team changes the constant
> > accidently?
>
> agreed, its fine to leave it to yourself to know not to change a constant
> but if its a big project constants would be a nice plus so your associates
> dont mess thing up, accidently?

Two words: "coding standard"

PORT_NAME = 'COM1'
portName = 'COM1'

Only one of these may be changed by my "associates" ... no need for
a "const" keyword (nor even Alex's little gem in most cases) ...

(And, as usual with Python, it still leaves the door open for those
cases where someone _really_ wants to change a so-called constant,
probably during an awkward debugging session, or for a special test
case or something.  _Enforcing_ constancy would prevent that, which
would not be very Pythonic.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Aug 27 18:27:40 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:27:40 GMT
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:54:08 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net>
wrote:

:On 27 Aug 2001 10:29:44 -0700, aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote in
:comp.lang.python in article <9me028$ecq$1 at panix2.panix.com>:
:
::In article <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante at grante.comtrol.com>,
::Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
::>
::>I didn't realize we were discussing 1.5.2.  I assume people are
::>using a fairly recent version unless they specify otherwise.
::>Under 2.1, spawnv is available for Unix. I don't remember if it
::>was in 2.0.
::
::Until Red Hat et al upgrade the default installation, I assume there's a
::good chance questions refer to 1.5.2.
:
:I will second that. This is one of the primary reasons that my webhost
:will not entertain upgrading the system Python to a more recent version.
:He doesn't want to risk "breaking" something, and says that Python is
:"built-in" to the system, somehow.

Sigh.  I have this problem with my ISP, and affecting only mailman.
Mailman now depends on 2.x Python and since the ISP won't upgrade
Python they can't upgrade Mailman.  We're sinking into a hole here...

:Plus, there is the whole thing, with some people not even wanting to
:touch the RH 7.x. (I don't understand all the issues around this, but
:the fact is that even if RH does update their Python in their install
:routines, that some people don't even want to use the latest RH, for
:some reason...)

Youv'e got it wrong, Sheila.  The problem is that people have learned
from bitter experience not to trust Red Hat x.0 releases, the .1's are
marginally useful, the .2's often actually work - but by that time
they're almost ready for (x+1).0.  Sigh.

Unfortunately Red Hat have recently decided that they won't change
major versions of key packages on minor Red Hat releases... so we're
stuck with Python 1.5.2 as the default until, oh, about RedHat 8.2.

Folks need to be told that Linux is wonderful, but Red Hat doesn't
necessarily prove that in their choice of what to bundle...


Mats Wichmann



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 01:00:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:00:04 -0400
Subject: enhancing slicing
In-Reply-To: <WTfh7.13457$54.509054@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELCLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Steve Holden]
> If I can remember my Icon correctly its slicing mechanism recognised
> signs as significant,

Right, but not quite as you remember it.

> so
>
>     seq[a:+b]
>
> meant take a slice of length b starting at position a,

Unary + is nothing special; the syntax Icon uses is

    seq[a +: b]

as sugar for

    seq[a : a+b]

but evaluating "a" only once (significant if there are side-effects);
likewise

    seq[a -: b]

as sugar for

    seq[a-b : a]

Python *could* do the same without breaking anything.  I told Guido so often
that he borrowed sequence slicing from Icon that he *almost* remembers it
that way too <wink>.




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 12:41:59 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:41:59 GMT
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should appl  y to *nix, too)
References: <mailman.999183227.25743.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8e6c9d.14242343@news.t-online.de>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:55:52 -0700 (PDT), <brueckd at tbye.com> wrote:


>So maybe it was an indentation bug fixed between 2.1 and 2.1.1. I'll go
>look at the CVS look on SF.

Today I installed ActivePython 2.1.1, and it is fixed in it [With, of
course, the indent solution...]


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 03:21:57 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:21:57 GMT
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <3b8de94b.528890@news.isar.de>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:21:56 -0700, "Formalin"
<formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote:

>Is there any editor support python?
I personally like SciTE best. Its Open Source. Its available for both
Win32 and Linux (GNOME based). It supports many programming languages.
Its available here:

http://www.scintilla.org/SciTEDownload.html




From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 11:45:11 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:45:11 +0200
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org> <9l12mo$m7c$1@news.mathworks.com> <ac677656.0108101522.7ee95f6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2065929.XNkdZ6W18F@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Tom Good <Tom_Good1 at excite.com> schrub:

> Joshua Marshall <jmarshal at mathworks.com> wrote in message
> news:<9l12mo$m7c$1 at news.mathworks.com>...
>> I always use '.  Holding down shift is just far too much effort.
> 
> My thoughts exactly.  Single quote doesn't require shifting -- it is
> the 'automatic transmission' of string delimiters.
> 
> This also explains why Lists are better than Tuples: typing (1,2,3)
> requires two shifts, typing [1,2,3] requires none.  ;-)

Happy Americans!

With German keyboard layout, we have to press Shift for (), " and ' as 
we have to use the Alt-Gr-Key to get {}s and []s.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From ron.l.johnson at home.com  Mon Aug  6 04:24:49 2001
From: ron.l.johnson at home.com (Ron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:24:49 GMT
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
Message-ID: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

Hello,

Say I have the strings:
  'foo   bar      snafu'
  'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'

Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the 
duplicate spaces out so that the files look like:
  'foo bar snafu'
  'fiddle faddle pip pop'

I could iteratively apply string.replace, replacing '  ' with 
' ', but that doesn't seem the optimum course.

For anyone with VMS experience, I want to emulate the DCL lexical
function F$EDIT("COMPRESS").

Sincerely,
Ron

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ron Johnson, Jr.        Home: ron.l.johnson at home.com       |
| Jefferson, LA  USA      http://ronandheather.dhs.org       |
|                                                            |
| "Our computers and their computers are the same color. The |
|  conversion should be no problem!"                         |
|    Unknown                                                 |
+------------------------------------------------------------+


From Lutz.Schroeer at kybernetik-manufaktur.de  Thu Aug 16 16:51:20 2001
From: Lutz.Schroeer at kybernetik-manufaktur.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 20:51:20 GMT
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
References: <9lb1ut$a7i$01$1@news.t-online.com> <72lbl9.j62.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <Xns90FFE8896C332Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>

gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard H?ring) wrote in
news:72lbl9.j62.ln at gargamel.hqd-internal: 

> I'd probably go for "Einf?hrung in Python" by Mark Lutz and David
> Ascher. 

I used this book to get addicted to Python ("anfixen" in German ;-).

But be aware, this ain't no book for beginners. You should have some 
experience in some other programming language[s] and in the basics of object 
orientated programming to have fun, otherwise it's hard work (at least 
IMHO).

It costs 69,- German Marks for 380 pages and it's one of of the special 
O'Reilly bounded softcovers (the "Buchr?cken" (don't know the English term) 
isn't destroyed if you open it 180 degrees).

Buy it, enjoy it and terrorize your colleagues by repeating "In Python this 
would be easily done in <n> lines" :-))

Lutz
(at the time forced to learn Visual Basic by his employer)


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 29 23:28:52 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:28:52 -0700
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com> <e5f40188.0108291927.5ee06bdb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mkc62$2ppa7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Not!

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"L" <lrl at ou.edu> wrote in message
news:e5f40188.0108291927.5ee06bdb at posting.google.com...
> @home has permanently blocked all web servers because of code red,
> regardless of port.



From achim.domma at syynx.de  Wed Aug  1 09:46:21 2001
From: achim.domma at syynx.de (Achim Domma)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:46:21 +0200
Subject: Large pages using Zope
References: <9k766t$dc0$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3B674802.C730D678@engcorp.com> <5F49B5CBF5054C94.33E4B38F094277B1.1DDFF7F8A2A4AD86@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <9k917d$ka6$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:5F49B5CBF5054C94.33E4B38F094277B1.1DDFF7F8A2A4AD86 at lp.airnews.net...
> Mr. Domma, I have a similar question.  Are you saying
> that you're replacing client-side JScript and VBScript
> with server-side Python?  Architectural redesign inter-
> ests me; what kinds of service were JScript and VBScript
> giving you?  Did they reach to your CORBA-DB back end?

No, sorry for the confusion but I only spoke about server side
programming. We are currently using IIS with ASP-pages written
in JScript and VBScript but want to switch to a plattform
independet solution.

I think direct connection from the client via script to the server
is only possible in a pure MS environment. The xml-datasource
of IE5 should be able to get his data via http from a SQL-Server.
But that is not the topic of this group ...

greetings
Achim




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 21 14:52:17 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:52:17 +0200
Subject: PyQt binary for Windows....but?
References: <4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc@posting.google.com> <3112302e.0108140120.5df65f46@posting.google.com> <m2vgjh1cz3.fsf@mouse.copelandconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <1laul9.pg1.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 21 Aug 2001 13:31:44 -0500, Greg Copeland <gtcopeland at earthlink.net> wrote:
>Does the KDE libs also work?  Last I looked, PyQT was really made up of
>two libraries.  Once was the qt lib and the other way the kde lib.  Does
>the KDE lib work/come with the Win distro?

KDE doesn't run on native win32. IIRC there is a team to get it working on
Cygwin/X11, though.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Fri Aug 24 09:12:39 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:12:39 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241700080.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>; from phd@phd.pp.ru on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:01:09PM +0400
References: <20010824084053.F930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241700080.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010824091239.G930@naxos.starmedia.net>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:01:09PM +0400, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:37:48PM -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
> > > This sounds pretty interesting.  How does it compare to Mason?
> >
> > Mason and SkunkWeb compare rather well with each other, as they do tend
> > to attack the web serving problem in similar ways.
> >
> >  * Mason and SkunkWeb
> [skip]
> 
>    Wow! This should be published somewhere as a mini-HOWTO. Nice
> observation!

Funny you mention it...  The beginnings of the SkunkWeb FAQ are here:

http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/FAQ.html

Cheers,
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 03:02:47 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:02:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996620943.17056.python-list@python.org> <996641770.29578@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F0521653C8michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in
news:996641770.29578 at yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com: 

> On a different note, explicit type annotations arguably make a program
> easier to understand.

I absolutely agree with this (except for the "arguably" bit :)).


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 10:06:55 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:06:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Issue with function keyword defaults
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108051307240.31133-100000@bcryachts.atsat.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051803410.23391-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Morten W. Petersen wrote:

>Hi,
>
>after trying to set an empty dictionary as a default keyword arguments'
>value, this happened (same thing happened on 2.0.1 BTW):
>
>morten at debian:~$ python
>Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219
>(prerelease)] on linux2 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch
>Centrum, Amsterdam
>>>> import time
>>>> def test(r={}):
>...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
>...     return r
>...
>>>> test()
>{997015577.922: 997015577.922}
>>>> test()
>{997015578.849: 997015578.849, 997015577.922: 997015577.922}
>>>> test()
>{997015579.446: 997015579.446, 997015578.849: 997015578.849,
> 997015577.922: 997015577.922
>
>I would assume that r would be re-initialized on every call, but that's
>not happening;  could anyone explain this behaviour?

This is widely known trap. r is ONE instance for all function
calls. Better (idiomatic) approach is:

def test(r=None):
    r = r or {}
    r[time.time()] = time.time()
    return r

(Same happens for all mutable objects. The rule is not to
put mutables as default values unless the effect is wanted or
they aren't modified.)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 12 23:19:11 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:19:11 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com> <3187511.KiObB369e8@lunix.schabi.de> <3b74379c.492155281@wa.news.verio.net> <1591616.O8KEF6KIFk@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3b77477b.692826211@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:54:43 +0200, Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> schrub:
>
>> E.g., what if there were a 'restricted' keyword (or you pick one ;-)
>> which allowed the compiler to assume that a function's arguments would
>> always be the same types as in provided default arguments, and that
>> there would be no global side effects, and global references would be
>> stable as to type? It would seem you could allocate local working
>> storage on the stack and avoid reference counting and lookup to a
>> large extent.
>
>But you can't save the lookups between different objects of the same 
>type, because "same type" means "same interface", not "same 
>implementation".
>
I had in mind an *ignorable* hint to the compiler, so that *some* platforms
could *optionally* generate platform-specific optimized code for restricted
kinds of function definitions or expressions. Since this would be specially generated
for a particular platform, "same type" could presumably  be restricted/coerced
to "same representation type". E.g., it should be possible to generate
extra fast code for evaluating a polynomial expression, without writing an extension.

One could even imagine an optimization mode that would speculatively (no hints in code)
produce optimized code for an inferred situation with fast checks to verify assumptions
and go ahead if ok, and non-optimized code to handle the case if not. There could
be an optional dictionary of compilable entities with optimization levels/info
that the compiler could check if present (which would amount to externalized hints).

>And trickery with the reference counting may get you into problems when 
>using multithreading. Assume, you don't increase the reference count 
>for local variables - than another thread may kill the last counted 
>reference, and the object is freed erreaneously.
>
For what I hand in mind, a restricted function would be stateless and
reentrant, so different threads would get their own local storage.
For global references (immutable objects only), I imagine reference
count would be incremented at compile time, and decremented when the
compiled code object was deleted, not at execution time. Suitable
global mutable objects could be copied at compile time, with that
understanding.

If you were writing multi-threaded stuff that depended on non-reentrant
semantics, you wouldn't be able to use the restricted hint. I don't
mean to say that that absolutely couldn't be loosened, but just
to start somewhere.



From nicoe at wanadoo.be  Wed Aug 29 11:18:46 2001
From: nicoe at wanadoo.be (Nicolas Evrard)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:18:46 +0200
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
In-Reply-To: <20010829171028.B8680@Nutella>; from nicoe@wanadoo.be on Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:10:28 +0200
References: <20010829171028.B8680@Nutella>
Message-ID: <20010829171846.E8680@Nutella>

Hello everyone, this is my first post to the list and let me say that I
find python really exciting ... Looks a bit like scheme but is fast and
have a large community of users ...

Here 's what I've done :

To try the __comp__ method I've done a class for complex number (the usual
example). But here are the result I've got :

>>> Complex(7,2).__comp__(Complex(3,4))
1
>>> Complex(7,2) < Complex(3,4)
1

the definition of __comp__ I've done :

    def __comp__(self, other) :
        if self.r < other.r :
            return -1
        elif self.r == other.r :
            if self.i < other.i :
                return -1
            elif self.i == other.i : return 0
        else : return 1

But in the reference manual it says that __comp__ should return a positive
integer if self > other ... and obviously it isn't the case.

BTW i'm using python 1.5.2

-- 
--------------------------------------- -?) 
Evrard Nicolas      Happily using:      /\\ 
Li?ge (Belgium)   DEBIAN GNU\LINUX     _\//
------------------------------------------- 



From mikhael at lib-sys.com  Mon Aug 20 14:03:51 2001
From: mikhael at lib-sys.com (Mikhael Loo)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:03:51 -0400
Subject: Opening New files
Message-ID: <3b814f34_3@news.chartertn.net>

What code do you used to open a new file.  I've been opening existing files
on MSW but I'm having trouble with my files and I think  that I may need to
use something besides open() if the file doesn't already exists.

  -Mikhael





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug  1 13:36:05 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 17:36:05 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <mailman.996258542.15795.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4u16rx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996270412.11895.python-list@python.org> <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996616382.9383.python-list@python.org> <cpsnfcxwrw.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996682622.19966.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9mgfg4.hch.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:15:27 -0700, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> pisze:

> Second, I think that this might be worth adding new syntax for one
> reason. The current syntax for exception-type trapping is extremely
> error prone and nasty and it is essentially the same problem. I
> could imagine:
> 
> try:
>     foo()
> except exc isa OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError:
>     pass

Instead of commas an operator could be used which produces an object
whose __contains__ tests whether the given object belongs to either
of arguments. Obvious candidates are | or +, so
    try:
        foo()
    except OverflowError | ZeroDivisionError:
        pass
works and
    if obj in (int | float)
works using the same mechanism. Or maybe with + instead of |.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 13:18:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:18:35 -0400
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
In-Reply-To: <9mocc301q7f@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDLLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> The Python implementation has many examples of this, jumping to an
> error label at the end when things go wrong "in the middle".

[Grant Griffin]
> That's a good reason.  (I've also found gotos quite helpful in
> converting Fortran to C <wink>.)
>
> I can't say I use them much, but I _am_ a big fan of the "almost-goto"
> constructs like return, break, and continue.  In particular, I
> like to do early returns to avoid needless nesting.

Ignacio is hung up on a four-letter word, and is thereby doomed to write
code that's needlessly brittle.  The way goto is used in Python's
implementation is usually a simple by-hand compilation of the higher-level
construct (which can't be coded *directly* in C):

    initialize temps and result to NULL
    try:
        # normal stuff, but when an error occurs, do
        raise error

        # more stuff

    except error:
        Py_XDECREF(result);
        result = NULL;

    Py_XDECREF(temp1);
    ...
    Py_XDECREF(tempn);
    return result;

Look back at the pattern I suggested with gotos, and you'll see that it's
implementing exactly that:

    initialize temps and result to NULL
    # normal stuff, but when an error occurs, do
    goto error;

    # more stuff
    goto normal_return;

error:
    Py_XDECREF(result);
    result = NULL;
    /* fall-through */
normal_return:
    Py_XDECREF(temp1);
    ...
    Py_XDECREF(tempn);
    return result;

It's not the gotos that make this more robust, it's the higher-level
construct they're *implementing*, and that construct is exactly on-target
for preventing "stupid mistakes" in letting temps leak, or letting a partial
result leak in an error case.  If you suffer KFG (Kneejerk Fear of Goto), I
suppose you could do

    initialize temps and result to NULL
    int erroneous = 0;
    do {
        # normal stuff, but when an error occurs, do
        erroneous = 1;
        break;  /* and hope we're breaking out of the 'do'! */

        # more stuff

    } while(0);

    if (erroneous) {
        Py_XDECREF(result);
        result = NULL;
    }
    Py_XDECREF(temp1);
    ...
    Py_XDECREF(tempn);
    return result;

but that's no improvement by any rational measure ...

we-won't-talk-about-python's-use-of-goto-in-the-lexer<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From martin at strakt.com  Wed Aug  8 06:04:12 2001
From: martin at strakt.com (Martin Sjögren)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:04:12 +0200
Subject: Exception confusion
Message-ID: <20010808120412.A13034@strakt.com>

I wrote this little test script:

try: raise Exception, "foo"
except Exception, arg: print type(arg)

And it said <type 'instance'> (i.e. the exception object)
When I tried this:

try: raise Exception, "foo"
except Exception, (arg,): print type(arg)

It said <type 'string'>.
Happy with that, I tried to raise a tuple instead:

try: raise Exception, ("foo", "bar"):
except Exception, (arg,): print type(arg)

and it said "ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong size".

try: raise Exception, ("foo", "bar"):
except Exception, arg: print type(arg)

still says that arg is an instance. So I manually have to do:

try: raise Exception, ("foo", "bar"):
except Exception, (arg1,arg2): print type(arg1), type(arg2)

which says that both arg1 and arg2 are strings.


Doesn't this strike anybody as inconsequent?


Here's another interesting thing:

try: raise Exception, ["foo"]
except Exception, arg: print arg[0]

says  ['foo']  while

try: raise Exception, ["foo"]
except Exception, (arg,): print arg[0]

says  foo.


So the exception object IS subscriptable, but it doesn't do anything??


Anybody have any comments, 'cause I'm confused... Does any of this warrant
a bug report?


And-I-thought-exceptions-were-confusing-before-this-ly y'rs - Martin

-- 
Martin Sj?gren
  martin at strakt.com              ICQ : 41245059
  Phone: +46 (0)31 405242        Cell: +46 (0)739 169191
  GPG key: http://www.strakt.com/~martin/gpg.html



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 11 06:24:00 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:24:00 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
Message-ID: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I have difficulty in understanding why the 
 print n, len(getStory()), len(_story)
always prints n, 0, 0

why is b2.getStory not getStory? Is it because importing from a isn't
the same as the importing from the __main__ module?

What is the correct way to import from the main script?

when I run a.py I see
0 0 0
1 0 0
2 0 0
[1, 2]
0


#a.py
_story = []

def getStory():
        return _story

def func(n):
        getStory().append(n)

def run():
        print 0, len(getStory()), len(_story)
        import b1
        print 1, len(getStory()), len(_story)
        import b2
        print 2, len(getStory()), len(_story)
        print b2.getStory()
        print b2.getStory is getStory

if __name__=='__main__':
        run()

#b1.py
from a import getStory, func
func(1)

#b2.py
from a import getStory, func
func(2)
-- 
Robin Becker


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 01:03:33 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:03:33 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998537374.7817.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd75nnza2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> Huh? It seems like the deterministic behavior of reference counting
> would be of benefit to large, long-running programs. Or are you thinking
> of large, long-running programs that create a lot of cyclic references?

Why is determinism such an issue?  


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:35:31 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:35:31 +0200
Subject: a break for comprehensions
References: <mailman.996515638.21022.python-list@python.org> <ac677656.0107301331.5330d4db@posting.google.com> <Pyk97.4104$9i1.318163@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <U9H97.163512$EF2.22005506@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <ac677656.0108011124.53b4af52@posting.google.com> <Dukc7.237464$EF2.29204130@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <L_nc7.241033$EF2.29456854@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9ktlh101uva@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Cliff Crawford" <cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:L_nc7.241033$EF2.29456854 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> * Cliff Crawford <cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu> menulis:
> |
> | Then you can do stuff like the following, which simulates the Unix 'cat'
> | command (warning: untested):
> |
> | files = reduce(lambda x, y: x+y, GenList(iter(open(sys.argv[1:]))))
>
> Ooops, that should be
>
> files = reduce(lambda x, y: x+y,
>           [GenList(iter(open(filename))) for filename in sys.argv[1:]])

I think it should be
    files = reduce(operator.add,
        # whatever
after an import operator somewhere, of course.  I strongly
suggest NOT using lambda to duplicate the functions already
supplied by module operator -- it's slow and messy!-)


Alex





From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Sun Aug 26 18:06:15 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:06:15 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <71jiotg3cbdpb6maid4fpa4ql3tjik8euh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B89737D.8060901@ActiveState.com>

Sheila King wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:19:36 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote
> in comp.lang.python in article
> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4 at 4ax.com>:
> 
> :
> :I really don't see any way around file locking for the type of
> :application I'm trying to write. However, I guess after seeing all the
> :trouble with the msvcrt module, and how it doesn't even seem to allow
> :shared locking access to a file, that I will go ahead and use the
> :win32all extensions. I'm supposing that will allow better control?
> 
> It appears, after a bit more research, that this will not work for all
> win32 platforms, anyway. Apparently unsupported on Win95/98/Me:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/hh/winbase/filesio_39h4.asp
> 
> (scroll down to just below where it says "requirements")


It appears that LockFileEx is designed specifically for files that use 
"overlapped IO".  Indeed, the "portalocker" recipe explicitly uses 
overlapped IO structures.

Try using LockFile - the MSDN documentation implies that it is supported 
on all Win32 platforms, and the error you get:

pywintypes.api_error: (120, 'LockFileEx', 'This function is only valid
in Win32 mode.')

implies you are running on Win9x.

A quick look at portalocker implies you will also want to drop all 
references to "_overlapped" - replace them with "None".

Mark.



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 29 07:26:45 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:26:45 GMT
Subject: Concatenating iterators
References: <9mhaee$brn$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9opkbl.er6.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:45:18 +0200, Magnus Lie Hetland <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> pisze:

> Is there a standard way of concatenating iterators yet?

I'm afraid it can't be done simpler than by making a function like this:

def concat(*its):
    for it in its:
        for x in it: yield x

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Aug 14 12:00:15 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:00:15 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: =?windows-1251?Q?=CD=C0=CB=CE=C3=CE=C2=C0=DF_=CF=CE=CB=C8=D6=C8=DF_=CD=C5_=C4=D0=C5=CC=CB=C5=D2_!!!?=
In-Reply-To: <216772001821415364863@Yang>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141957540.9742-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, =?windows-1251?Q?=DE=F0=E8=E4=E8=F7=E5=F1=EA=E8=E9_=F6=E5=ED=F2=F0_=CC=CE=D1=D2?= wrote:
   [skip]

It was russian spam. Please everyone complain to

abuse at att.net (Administrator of network where email originates)
abuse at dialtoneinternet.net  (Administrator of network hosting website
   referenced in spam)
abuse at staff.mail.com (Administrator of network hosting email address
   referenced in spam)

(information from spamcop.net)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net  Wed Aug 15 17:46:57 2001
From: ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net (S11001001)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:46:57 -0500
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
References: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net> <9ldcet01ki2@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <v1Ce7.157$SN.69468@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Am aware of 2.4.8. However, the Linmodem driver from PCTEL is written for
2.2.5. I think someone patched it for 2.3.?, but not sure on that part.
Therefore, am going with 2.2.5. It's better than the one I have (2.2.16)...if
you have a PCTEL linmodem driver for 2.4.8, by all means tell me! Also, I
noticed that the kernel bloated between 2.2.x and 2.4.x. Why is that, anyway?

--
Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an
intellectual property sense to everything it touches.
     Steve Ballmer

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9ldcet01ki2 at enews3.newsguy.com...
> "S11001001" <ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net> wrote in message
> news:oche7.404$n57.237388 at newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > I am only a newbie to python, a perl refugee, in fact. I need a
> DOWNLOADABLE,
> > as in one tarball or something, tutorial employing DESCRIPTION. I cannot
> leave
>
> You may like http://diveintopython.org/download/diveintopython-pdf-3.5-1.zip
> the current version of 'Dive into Python'.  It's very fast-paced and it does
> give
> the impression that the author comes from a Perl background, too.
>
> > the internet connection running as I page through the tutorial at
> python.org,
> > so I can't go that route. Once I get kernel 2.2.5, I will be able to do
> > Internet in Linux, so it will probably be alright. But I prefer to learn
> > offline.
>
> Why 2.2.5 when the current stable version is 2.4.8...?  Just curious!
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From matt at mondoinfo.com  Thu Aug 30 16:41:51 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:41:51 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com>

Dear Jeroen,

>I'm using python for one day now

Welcome!

>and the only thing i van do is import sys and exit() and print
>"hello". I want messageboxes! how?

The most common graphical interface for Python is Tkinter. There's
good documentation at:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

Like all graphical interfaces, using it can be a little complex. You
might want to get a little more experience with Python before you
started using it heavily. There's good introductory documentation
linked from:

http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html

Have fun with Python!

Regards,
Matt



From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Aug  9 00:25:40 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 04:25:40 GMT
Subject: Popmail.py Need help.....................
References: <%Pnc7.5649$V43.473350@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <e444ntgj1m7580jf19srfgipd2abjv1prf@4ax.com>

When I used Sam Spade utilities and tried to do a traceroute on
pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net I got the message

"no such host"

So, I'd say that you have the hostname incorrect.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:04:47 -0400, "Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<%Pnc7.5649$V43.473350 at e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>:

:I have tried using these modules but i'm getting some errors when i run the
:script.
:
:Here is the code i'm using for the pop mail :
:
:import getpass , poplib
:M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')
:M.user(getpass.getuser())
:M.pass_(getpass.getpass())
:numMessages = len(M.list()[1])
:for i in range (numMessages):
:    for j in M.retr (i+1)[1]:
:        print j
:
:>>>
:Traceback (most recent call last):
:  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
:  File "C:\Python21\Scripts\popmail.py", line 2, in ?
:    M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')
:  File "C:\PYTHON21\lib\poplib.py", line 79, in __init__
:    self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
:  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
:error: host not found
:
:
:



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 04:26:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:26:50 +0200
Subject: abstract features
References: <mailman.997716920.22470.python-list@python.org> <r63gntgusivel7n51rdh2nmkvh6j1cjfe7@4ax.com> <9l954g01cpl@drn.newsguy.com> <89hhntoaqhok150qcv4v5ue9vk9sg7svlq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9lancb018fu@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:89hhntoaqhok150qcv4v5ue9vk9sg7svlq at 4ax.com...
    ...
> When I first learned slices, I thought they were just plain radical.
Python gets a

As I have an APL background, Python's slices seemed pretty tame to me
in comparison...:-).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 17:47:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:47:17 +0200
Subject: zlib compressionobj use: what am I missing?
References: <9lhcom$8ao$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9lhf5e023rl@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:9lhcom$8ao$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
> Hi all, I'm working on a patch to the zlibmodule, but I can't get this
> bit of code for testing compression objects to work at all.  Should it?
> If not, what am I doing wrong??

>     zlib.decompress(compdata)

Only thing I can think of, is you're throwing the result of decompress
away -- with a print here, this works fine for me.


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 16:17:34 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:17:34 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
In-Reply-To: <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140014220.1658-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

One more question.

Python programmers use the following idiom:

class A:
  # ...
  def __mul__(self, other):
    ...
  __rmul__ = __mul__


If I understood correctly, __rmul__ will be of different
category from __mul__? This causes asymmetry...

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/




From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Mon Aug 27 04:44:38 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:44:38 +0200
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
References: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net> <3b88359d.7036398@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3b8a0802$0$294$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Mike Clarkson wrote:

> 
> It's probably easier than you think: look at the Tk 'event' command.
> It can deliver an arbitrary keyboard mouse or virtual event to any Tk
> widget.
> 
> In your UI code,  setup a dictionary which contains the widgets
> that you want to test by sending events to, so that you can refer to
> then in the testng code. Then in the testing code, use the event
> command to send thngs like <Button-1> events to those widgets.
> 
> Note that if you are testing Dialogs (popped up windows with a grab)
> you probably have to use the Tk 'after' command to queue up the events
> before instantiating the Dialog.
> 
> Mike.

In PyQt, I use a a small extra framework to test whether signals arrive.
This way, I can check whether the signals that the underlying logic sends
fit what the GUI will expect. That can be extended to send signals to the 
GUI and check whether the GUI components do the right thing on getting them 
- it's a bit comparable to what you describe, but still no substitute for 
user tests, I'm afraid.

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From stephen_purcell at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 14:44:51 2001
From: stephen_purcell at yahoo.com (Steve Purcell)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:44:51 +0200
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyUnit 1.4 released
Message-ID: <20010806204451.A29693@freedom.puma-ag.com>

Version 1.4 of the PyUnit testing framework has just been released.

The primary intention of this release is to provide a standalone package of
the same PyUnit code contained in the Python 2.1 standard library. This is
primarily for the benefit of those who use older (or Java-flavoured)
versions of Python.

The release may also be of interest to Python 2.1 users who would like to
run their tests using the Tkinter-based GUI test runner tool which is part
of the PyUnit package but is not contained in the Python standard library.

Summary of changes since version 1.3.1:

  - Updated documentation
  - main() runs all tests in the module __main__ by default
  - New code allows all test cases in a given module to be located and
    instantiated
  - Simplified command line syntax
  - Made TextTestRunner configurable with verbose and quiet options, and
    consequently removed obsoleted JUnitTextTestRunner
  - Test instantiation code now localised in a replaceable TestLoader class
  - Distutils 'setup.py' contributed by Bill Bumgarner
  - TestResult.addSuccess() method added (thanks to Frederic Corne)
  - Stop overridden test methods being run twice (thanks to Brian Zimmer
    and Maas-Marten Zeeman)
  - Don't expand GUI's progress bar vertically when resizing (Fred Drake)

The release is available from the PyUnit homepage at

  http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/

or directly from

  http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pyunit/pyunit-1.4.0.tar.gz

Very best wishes to all,

-Steve

-- 
Steve Purcell, Pythangelist
Get testing at http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/
Test your web apps with http://webunit.sourceforge.net/



From vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi  Wed Aug  8 01:26:52 2001
From: vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 08:26:52 +0300
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com> <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com> <3b707aa4.591122937@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <yoxk80f86lf.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>

xtian at hyperactive.co.nz writes:

> That's pretty spectacularly neat.

Yes, it is. Gems like that should end up in the tutorial to "whet the
appetite". Now all we need is an iterator for the list, no batter how
tainted and impure that might be... ;-)

How does this kind of list improve performance of lisp-ish recursive
functions, as opposed to cdr = list[1:]? I guess there was a benchmark
a while ago (some kind of "language shootout") that did use list[1:]
and made Python look bad.

-- 
Ville Vainio - http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio - ICQ #115524762
 Wild geese have no intention to cast a reflection
 Water has no mind to assume their form


From drg at longhands.org  Thu Aug 23 20:24:26 2001
From: drg at longhands.org (Dan Girellini)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 20:24:26 -0400
Subject: dumb newbie list question
References: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org> <slrn9o0kpv.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <9lppug$k91$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <m37kvucnk5.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org>

Yes this, basically what I was looking for.  Thanks for all the responses.  I
appreciate the help.

--dan.


 -- "AD" == Andrew Dalke <dalke at acm.org> writes:

 AD> Dan Girellini:
 >>> Is there an easy way to do this without building a second list of the
 >>> right size and concatenating them?

 AD> Bernd Nawothnig:
 >> Why will you do this?
 >>
 >> l=l+(10-len(l))*['x']
 >>
 >> works fine and should be faster then many l.append('x')

 AD> If you don't want to create a new list, you could also do

 AD>   l.extend( [None] * (10-len(l)) )

 AD> (Using None is closer to the way Perl does it than using 'x'.)







From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Wed Aug  1 01:46:55 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:46:55 -0600
Subject: decent syslog replacement?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0107311342150.2256-100000@roughneck.mydomain.org>; from henken@seas.upenn.edu on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:43:11PM -0400
References: <20010801011857.A8795@Vetinari.home> <Pine.LNX.4.33L2.0107311342150.2256-100000@roughneck.mydomain.org>
Message-ID: <20010731234655.A15852@tummy.com>

On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:43:11PM -0400, Nicholas Henke wrote:
>Thanks...I forgot about the syslog - thing...The main problem is the
>syslog disk thrashing...I guess I wasnt really clear about that. Are there
>any clean options to buffer even more than syslog might do?

Adding the "-" should resolve the problem you're seeing, as was mentioned.
If you want copious amounts of control over how your syslog is buffering,
switch to syslog-ng.  See freshmeat.net if you need a pointer.

Sean
-- 
 I'd like an order of fries, a quarter-pounder with cheese,
 I love the light in your eyes, will you go out with me please.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From rburnham at cri-inc.com  Mon Aug 27 13:12:01 2001
From: rburnham at cri-inc.com (Roger Burnham)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:12:01 GMT
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
References: <mailman.998715878.20084.python-list@python.org> <283adf56.0108270848.3b9d159e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8a7dae.83488720@news-server.socal.rr.com>

On 27 Aug 2001 09:48:47 -0700, kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen) wrote:


>Anway, it seems like the best bet is look into the Webware-friendly
>ISPs.
>

I recently signed up with <http://www.missoulaweb.com/> for a place to learn
Webware and would highly recommend them. $10/month includes mysql, 100Mb and
great service:  within hours of asking, they installed PIL and several other libs
I needed.  I am having some trouble getting the Webware persistent AppServer
running reliably and they (missoulaweb) have gone way beyond the call-of-duty to
help sort it out (the Webware oneshot servers works flawlessly).

Cheers,


Roger Burnham
rburnham at blennylips.com


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Aug 20 08:17:00 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 08:17:00 -0400
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108200027170.5319-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108200027170.5319-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <oq7kvzc4eb.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]

> On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Stephen Boulet wrote:

> > Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for
> > recent code red queries: [...] I have a list with 873 entries. Now
> > what do I do with it?  ;)

> Certainly the thing NOT to do is to contact the owners of the offending
> sites [...]

I presume you are kidding.  The poor fellows probably do not even know
they are infected.  I guess you should warn them, in the nearly hopeless
hope that we get a better network after a while.

Now, the real difficulty is notifying 873 people, who often use non-resolved
IP addresses (5 out of 6 in my statistics), or have their anonymity far too
well "protected" by ISPs which could not care less, or do not have a clue.
A saddening experience.

My Python script for handling such attacks is careful to not report more
than once per offending IP, unless attacks continue for more than 4 days
afterwards.  Failed DNS resolutions is really the bottleneck of the whole
processing, so I do them within 100 threads, to get more acceptable speed.

There are two next steps for me.  First, I would like to find some Apache
trick so a mere referencing of `/default.ida' would trigger the script in
"single-event" mode.  Second, and much more importantly, would be to try
being clever at using "whois", because my current MX finder is a bit crude.
For a while, I'm saving information on this matter.  Any opinion welcome.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From relfx at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  8 07:02:46 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 04:02:46 -0700
Subject: Tcl/Tk......
Message-ID: <2209a682.0108080302.44b9a5f3@posting.google.com>

I have python 2.1.1 but I noticed python didn't install tcl/tk just
gave a support folder for it. Do I have to download it separately or
something or is built into python itself now. Can someone explain this
to me please?


From garry at sage.att.com  Fri Aug 24 10:11:02 2001
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:11:02 GMT
Subject: I dont get this!
References: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com> <3B863BF0.4AB10AD3@telia.com>
Message-ID: <3B866076.60BFCD66@sage.att.com>

Peter Sundling wrote:

> Problem solved.
> I got some answers from you and most of you wrote that the code snippet
> worked
> for you, but it didn't for me.
> 
> Erik Max Francis told me that the problem could be elsewhere in the
> code.
> Emile van Sebille gave me the idea that maybe one or more of the
> variables could be strings. And there was the problem.
> I loaded some data for the low[] and high[] variable from a file and
> forgot
> to convert the strings to integers. I feel like the dumbest programmer
> in the world.

naw.  the dumbest programmer in the world wouldn't admit his mistake,
nor so graciously thank those who helped, and would thus be less likely
to
get help the next time.


-- 
Garry Hodgson                   sometimes we ride on your horses
Senior Hacker                   sometimes we walk alone
Software Innovation Services    sometimes the songs that we hear
AT&T Labs                       are just songs of our own
garry at sage.att.com


From ph.wuidart at wol.be  Sun Aug 12 07:39:34 2001
From: ph.wuidart at wol.be (ph wuidart)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:39:34 +0200
Subject: installation tkinter help
Message-ID: <9l5q01$mc0$1@news.worldonline.be>

I am new to python
I install python 2.1.1 to Linux Suse 7.0 (ok) and I have problem to install
tkinter
can you help me !
Thank you




From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Aug  2 14:50:12 2001
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:50:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pygimp
Message-ID: <slrn9mj81l.sil.missive@tern.east.rochester.k12.ny.us>

I am trying to get pygimp running, but it seems that gimp is not finding
the plugins.

This is on FreeBSD 4.3

Anyone have the magick incantation to make this work?




From rob at jam.rr.com  Wed Aug 22 18:40:04 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:40:04 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B84347E.E65ADEC9@jam.rr.com>

atonal wrote:
> 
> i have beginning-to-intermediate level vb6/vba programming skills and
> would like to find employment before long in a technical capacity.
> 
> something tells me that vb is not my ticket, and i am intrigued by
> python.
> 
> for now i am somewhat wedded to ms windows and ms office, but i gather
> that python can be used in many ways in place of vba, and that in
> general it would offer more career opportunities.
> 
> anyone agree or disagree?  advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.
<opinion>
Python is great. If you enjoy programming at all, you just might find
that coding Python brings its own distinct pleasure.

It's an elegant language, offering simple, relatively obvious solutions
to many every-day problems. I believe that anyone who spends extensive
time with computers might find numerous situations in which Python comes
in handy.

I have been offered money to use my puny skills with Python more than
once lately, and these offers were from other programmers who want me to
develop demo applications, GUI interfaces for their own back-end
software, etc. It's a good general-purpose language, and it mixes well
with other languages.

It's a little like Java, only without all that Java.
</opinion>
Rob
-- 
Got newbies?
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Tue Aug 14 05:07:52 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:07:52 -0600
Subject: How do I use ssh in python?
In-Reply-To: <9koma6$d8f$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>; from trong-anh.tran@wanadoo.fr on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:27:23PM +0200
References: <9koma6$d8f$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <20010814030752.E14571@tummy.com>

Try:
   data = os.popen('ssh remotehost ls').read()
   print 'Got dat:', data

Sean
-- 
 "You can tune a file-system, but you can't tune a fish."
                 --  Quote from tunefs(1M) man page
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug  1 14:25:36 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:25:36 -0700
Subject: Query about Types SIG status
References: <Xns90F060A40CC85michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <3B6849A0.73CBC651@ActiveState.com>

Michael Abbott wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> There seem to be a variety of documents in varying stages of maturity, but
> it's difficult to see what the current state of thinking is.  There's a
> document from Guido van Rossum with some early ideas, an unnumbered PEP
> from Paul Prescod on an interface declaration language, and PEP-0245 by
> Michel Pelletier, plus a number of other papers.  However (it's difficult
> to tell), most of these seem to be quite elderly!

Like almost everything in the Python world, the types-sig is very
personality driven. When there is a person stirring up the pot, the pot
is very active. When there isn't, it isn't.

> Clearly the ideas of interfaces and of static types are distinct but
> closely related developments.  Is this an area of active development, or is
> the current consensus that it's not worth the effort?

No, there is no consensus. I think it would be useful to be able to
check types at module boundaries and if I could get a week of vacation
I'll make some more progress on that. The Zope guys are very interested
in interfaces as a documentation and introspection tool and they'll
probably advance that when they get time. Static types are the least
like to be reactivated any time soon because they are nightmarishly
complex to try to add to the Python type system -- especially while
Guido is changing the type system between version 2.1 and 2.2.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 20:14:06 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:14:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to change Windows Environment Variable
In-Reply-To: <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOCELICCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302010000.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, ??? wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> How to change environment variable on Windows NT or 2000 by python?
>
> In Visual Basic case can setting as below:
>
> Private Declare Function GetEnvironmentVariable Lib "kernel32" _
>     Alias "GetEnvironmentVariableA" (ByVal lpName As String, _
>     ByVal lpBuffer As String, ByVal nSize As Long) As Long
>
> Private Declare Function SetEnvironmentVariable Lib "kernel32" _
>     Alias "SetEnvironmentVariableA" (ByVal lpName As String, _
>     ByVal lpValue As String) As Long
>
> I will waiting for good news.
> Thanks.
> MyeongKi Han

Good news:

There is a GetEnvironmentVariable() function in the win32api module.

Bad news:

There is no SetEnvironmentVariable() function.

Good news:

The source code for win32api is available via CVS
  (http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/cvs.html) so you can add the
  function.

Bad News:

You'll need Visual Studio 6 to compile it.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From JamesL at Lugoj.Com  Fri Aug  3 17:45:46 2001
From: JamesL at Lugoj.Com (James Logajan)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:45:46 -0700
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <memo.20010803215850.16469f@digitig.compulink.co.uk> <PrEa7.66902$EP6.15427551@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B1B8A.EB9644AA@Lugoj.Com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Tim Rowe" <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:memo.20010803215850.16469f at digitig.compulink.co.uk...
> > Just a quick reminder that the reason I can't get any sysadmin to
> let me
> > use Python is that all the ones I encounter consider Python too
> unstable
> > for serious work. I see their point :-(
> 
> Compared to what?   I'm am acually curious.

If I may interject:

Bourne shell.
C.

Two trusty, reliable old tools. Neither is perfect; so what?


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Aug 29 10:21:40 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 09:21:40 -0500
Subject: Troublesome PIL Installation
References: <b3f07d21.0108290043.67d63770@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1rbskzt097.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Christian" == Christian Lundh <xistan at yahoo.se> writes:

    Christian> rm -f *.o *~ rm -f *.a tags TAGS config.c Makefile.pre
    Christian> python sedscript rm -f *.so *.sl so_locations
    Christian> VERSION=`python -c "import sys; print
    Christian> sys.version[:3]"`; \ installdir=`python -c "import sys;
    Christian> print sys.prefix"`; \ exec_installdir=`python -c
    Christian> "import sys; print sys.exec_prefix"`; \ make -f
    Christian> ./Makefile.pre.in VPATH=. srcdir=. \ VERSION=$VERSION \
    Christian> installdir=$installdir \
    Christian> exec_installdir=$exec_installdir \ Makefile make[1]:
    Christian> Entering directory
    Christian> `/home/xistan/src/ActivePython-2.1.1-212/Extensions/Imaging'
    Christian> make[1]: *** No rule to make target

Just a guess, but when I unpacked Imaging yesterday and went through
the install, I noticed that it unpacked in Imaging-1.1.2 (version
number included) and the default line in Modules/Setup (
-IExtensions/Imaging/libImaging   ) has no version numbers.  I made a
symlink:

 > cd Extensions
 > ln -s Imaging-1.1.2 Imaging

but you could also edit Modules/Setup to point to your Imaging
distribution.

Hope this helps,
John Hunter


From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Aug 30 10:04:17 2001
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:04:17 +0200
Subject: two little syntax questions
References: <MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684@news.easynews.net> <3b8e375a$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.15f866486f34abec989685@news.easynews.net>

In article <3b8e375a$1_1 at news5.uncensored-news.com>, 
doug.fort at verizon.net says...
perfect.

Thanks a lot
marcus


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Mon Aug 13 20:02:34 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:02:34 +1000
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com>
References: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0108141002340S.01694@ike>

On Tuesday 14 August 2001 10:23, root wrote:
> Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
> per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
> I've run into a problem during installation.

Marvellous idea :)


> I cannot, however, run Python 2.1.1 using the 'python' terminal command
> and there is no Python man page installed.  Typing 'python' at the
> command prompt brings up the 1.5.2 interpreter.  I can run the 2.1.1
> interpreter by typing the path of the toplevel Python directory and then
> /python (e.g. /home/root/Python-2.1.1/python) but I don't want to have
> to do this every time I start the interpreter and I would also like to
> have the man page installed.

By default, python will be installed to /usr/local/bin. Your system will have 
python 1.5.2 installed in /usr/bin. That binary will be found first when you 
type "python" at the command line. To force using python 2.1.1, run 
"/usr/local/bin/python".

Or, do the following (as root):

 cp /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/python1.5
 cd /home/root/Python-2.1.1/
 make distclean
 ./configure --prefix=/usr
 make install

the --prefix=/usr tells the install to place python in /usr/bin (and the 
library files will go in /usr/lib/python2.1). Note, you'll want to remove the 
"other" python2.1 installation too (/usr/local/bin/python and 
/usr/local/lib/python2.1). The first command above just keeps the old python 
around just in case you need it in the future.

Then you will be able to run "python" at the command prompt and get 2.1.1 :)


   Richard



From breakfast at 10.am  Thu Aug 30 16:06:25 2001
From: breakfast at 10.am (mallum)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:06:25 +0100
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301137270.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <20010830162416.B664@10.am> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301137270.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <20010830210625.A320@10.am>

on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:39:03AM -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> Have you tried compiling against glibc or dietlibc
> (http://www.fefe.de/dietlibc/)?
> 

The device Im devloping for only has 3mb's of space ( jffs2 compressed
filesystem though so slightly more.. ) so glibc is not really an
option.

AFAIK dietlibc is not as developed as uClibc .

mallum



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 06:21:13 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:21:13 +0200
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
References: <mailman.998772879.5363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9md6uq01ojv@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998772879.5363.python-list at python.org...
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, john anon wrote:
>
> > at the risk of repeating an old question
> > (I looked -- really -- I looked)
> >
> > if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
> > from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?
>
> Most likely via cmd.exe, NT/2000's command line interpreter.

...which is now hidden under start/programs/accessories (bah,
"accessory" my foot!).  Anyway, perhaps more common ways to
pass command-line args to Python programs on Win2000 &c are:

Start/Run...: you can pass a full commandline there,
    including arguments

Shortcuts: when you make a shortcut (.LNK file) to your
    program you get to define all of the commandline
    arguments (rightclick/Properties/Shortcut, edit the
    Target textfield).


Alex





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Aug  9 18:31:46 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 18:31:46 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
In-Reply-To: <3B71D3DC.A964483@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
	<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org>
	<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org>
	<3B71D3DC.A964483@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <oqae186f1p.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Peter Hansen]

> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> > Really?  You write parentheses all the time?

> No, just when I write tuples!  <wink> Yes, I *definitely* use parentheses
> around tuples all the time.
>  (a) One obvious way to do things.
>  (b) I never knew there was another way at first, and the habit stuck.
>  (c) Fits my brain better, since I see parentheses and think "tuple".
>      (My brain has to pause, perhaps, when a function with arguments 
>       is called.  I don't notice the pause, apparently. :-)

But in fact, your brain comes to just accept the magic of writing without
parentheses, not having to resort all the time to explicit tuple packing and
unpacking.  Not that you forget how things work, of course, but both your
writings and mind get a bit less encumbered.  Let's take a small example.
It is so simple to write:

   dictionary[index1, index2] = value

everywhere, in those applications where "dictionary" is to be indexed
with a 2-tuple.  Just think as an associative array with two indexes,
it's easier.  We do know that there is only one index deep down, and that
tuple packing occurs.  But this is all part of the Python built-in mechanics,
which you would underline by writing:

   dictionary[(index1, index2)] = value

Do we really need to stress the inner workings everywhere?  It is more
relaxing to avoid doing so.  And Python looks even more powerful! :-)

> > Of course, for many languages, parentheses could be effectively used to
> > increase legibility.  But for marking tuples, Python does not need them
> > in most cases, it may be more noisy than useful having them to mark tuples
> > when it is not required to do so.

> You haven't convinced me yet, other than the "slightly less noise"
> argument.

I'm not really trying to convince you, as stylistic issues are often prone to
religious feelings.  On the other hand, it is often good to compare styles.
My own style improved faster, when I started to look at what others do.
We pick and absorb little things that we like, here and there.

> To do otherwise would be inconsistent, and to me 
>    (inconsistency == unmaintainability) .

Quite agreed.  I'm very sensitive to inconsistent style when I read code,
it hurts the pleasure I have to read, and I'm torn between the the desire to
report these things, and the feeling people would badly receive my comments.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From gorny at hobbiton.org  Sat Aug 25 05:20:30 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:20:30 +0200
Subject: seg. fault with ext. module
Message-ID: <s5Kh7.41577$Vs4.366601@zonnet-reader-1>

Hi,

-----code------
#include <Python.h>

static PyObject * makesock(PyObject *self, PyObject *args);

static PyMethodDef gforce_methods[] = {
 {"makesock", makesock, METH_VARARGS},
 {NULL, NULL}
};

static PyObject * makesock(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
 printf("Making socket...\n");
 return Py_None;
}

/* Initialization function for the module */
DL_EXPORT(void) initgforce(void)
{
 (void)Py_InitModule("gforce", gforce_methods);
}
-----eof-----

>>> import gforce
>>> gforce.makesock()
Making socket...
>>> Ctrl-D
Segmentation fault
[gorny at darkstar ~/gforce]$

How do I prevent this. If i import other modules and close the python-shell
it'll not end with a segmentation fault, only if it's my module.. Do i have
to make an extra function in it, which `de-inits` the module..??

Greets,
Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net







From a11w at SoftHome.net  Mon Aug 13 04:21:57 2001
From: a11w at SoftHome.net (Jiba)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:21:57 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net> <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B778E25.1A873744@SoftHome.net>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> That never worked, and still won't work.  I don't see that as a loss.

Yes it does not work... I've never tried this, but i have assumed it
work... sorry for that.

> > By the way, it's interesting to notice that, for wrapper, o.method() is
> > not the same think than O.method(o)...
> 
> In what sense?

if O.method(arg) call, say, arg.something, if you pass the wrapper o,
the method call "something" will be wrapped. If you pass the non-wrapped
object oo, it won't be.

For example we can do a ReadOnlyWrapper that's wrap an object and make
it read-only :

class ReadOnly:
  def __init__(self, object):
    self.wrappedobject = object

  def __getattr__(self, name):
    return getattr(self.wrappedobject, name)

  def __setattr__(self, name, value):
    if name == "wrappedobject": self.__dict__["wrappedobject"] = value
    else: pass

This code DOESN'T WORK if wrappedobject has, for example, a setX(newX)
method, because :

>>> object = [what ever you want]
>>> ReadOnlyWrapper = ReadOnly(object)
>>> ReadOnlyWrapper.setX(1)

will modify the object. The only way to fix that may be to call :

>>> ReadOnly.setX(ReadOnlyWrapper, newX)

We may change __getattr__ so it does convert automatically
"ReadOnlyWrapper.setX(1)" into "ReadOnly.setX(ReadOnlyWrapper, newX)".


So it can really be usefull in some very particular cases !

> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

Jiba




From rnd at onego.ru  Wed Aug 29 11:14:58 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:14:58 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Winer on MS scripting strategy: implications for Python.NET?
In-Reply-To: <e2491a75.0108290618.2c072435@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108291905060.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On 29 Aug 2001, Bill Seitz wrote:

> See http://www.xmlrpc.com/stories/storyReader$1957
> 
> Dave believes (based on discussions such as
> http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5341?mode=day) that .NET
> implementations will lead to forks in the underlying languages, based
> on a standard embrace-extend strategy, which will lead to the .NET
> versions of each language getting much bigger than the root versions.
> Then they'll start nudging those .NET developers toward C#...

We ourselves are choosing .NET or so it seems all this time after the
NET-bubble emerged. I think even M$ will not be able to go that far.
Otherwise we'd have Java everywhere - which is not the case, thanks God.

In fixed N-dimensional space largest cluster always wins in the closed
volume. But our "space" is not bounded in volume, nor in dimensions.
So, there is no worries that everybody will use C# or whatever.

> Thoughts?

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From rishi.roy at getiview.com  Wed Aug  1 13:22:57 2001
From: rishi.roy at getiview.com (Rishi R. Roy)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:22:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Question about compiling python with openSSL support
Message-ID: <NFBBJOFMGKLCLFAJFCGNOEBMCAAA.rishi.roy@getiview.com>

I was hoping someone could help me with this.  I'm trying to compile python
but am having no success in figuring out where and what changes I need to
make in order to get it to work with openSSL.  I've successfully installed
ssl.  Also, I've seen the wrapper classes that are there - like m2crypto,
but would rather have the socket.ssl function working instead.  If someone
could PLEASE help me I would greatly appreciate it.  I've spent that last 3
days and I'm lost.  Thank you.

Rishi Roy


-- 
Posted from mail.opticominc.com [208.253.136.100] 
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From chapman at bioreason.com  Mon Aug  6 12:17:43 2001
From: chapman at bioreason.com (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:17:43 -0600
Subject: Python and Gtk
References: <9klkjv$1p9$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3B6EC327.81957972@bioreason.com>

Djoum? wrote:
> 
> I begin with Python and Gtk and I have some unresolved question :
> 
> I use Gtkinter and I have notice that a lot of gtk (or gdk) object miss in
> the gtk.py module. How can I do when I need these objects (for example
> Gdkfont)?

Gtkinter is included with pygtk but is deprecated.  It's
best just to use gtk.py.

The source code for pygtk includes a module called description.py.
This module exists for documentation purposes only.  It describes
classes such as GdkFont which don't have wrappers in gtk.py, but
which are used in pygtk.  (These classes don't have gtk.py wrappers,
but various methods in gtk.py may return instances of these
classes.  It's confusing...)

> Where can I find the prototype (type of arguments) of a callback function
> must have (for example where can I find the type of arguments of a button
> pressed callback funtion)?

One way to discover the interface of a callback function is
to define a dummy callback which has a "wildcard" interface.  
For example:

def buttonClickCB(*args):
    print "Button was clicked."
    print "  Arguments:", args
...
btn = gtk.GtkButton(label="Click me")
btn.connect("clicked", buttonClickCB)

When you run the program and click the button, it will print
out the argument list.

In fact, most of my callbacks never need the callback 
arguments.  (They are defined as methods on Controller classes,
and the Controllers keep all of the state needed in order
to process the callbacks.)  So I just declare callback
methods using the wildcard signature and never worry
about the "real" signature.  

Just to be redundant, here's another example:

class Controller:
    def __init__(self):
        ...
        self.fooBtn = gtk.GtkButton(label="Foo")
        self.fooBtn.connect("clicked", self.fooClickedCB)
        ...
    def fooClickedCB(self, *args):
        ...


Hope this helps...
-- 
Mitch Chapman
Mitch.Chapman at bioreason.com


From erno at iki.fi  Tue Aug 21 16:50:02 2001
From: erno at iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:50:02 +0300
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <15234.33838.8650.343768@beluga.mojam.com>; from skip@pobox.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 10:54:22AM -0500
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org> <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org> <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list@python.org> <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998398653.29844.python-list@python.org> <kuwv3xa4pm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <15234.33838.8650.343768@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010821235002.C783@fabulous.u--3.com>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

| The time module is supposed to be a very
| thin wrapper around various time-related C library functions.
[snip explanation what time.time()/time.clock() do on various platforms]

yeah, really thin wrapper... actually perhaps it would be better
if time.time() called the c time() function and time.clock() called
the c clock() function. then, new functions could be introduced for
measuring time accurately and for measuring only cpu time.
the former could call gettimeofday on unix and read the time stamp
counter on windows, and the latter could use clock or times and fail,
be absent or fall back to the performance counter on windows.

| I think if there was a better solution, Guido and friends would have
| found it by now.

yes, but as i understand the way it works is he picks up brilliant
ideas from frothing rants on the newsgroup and then gets in the time
machine... and then he will have found it by now.

that's why there are only pointless threads left on the newsgroup. all
the sensible threads have been erased from history because whatever
they were complaining about no longer exists :)

|     Erno> 1) it is usually better to use gettimeofday(2) than times(2) on
|     Erno>    unix for timing code because times(2) has poor resolution and
|     Erno>    the user/system time numbers are frequently gibberish.
| 
|     Erno> 2) the python time.clock() should return information based on
|     Erno>    gettimeofday(2) and not times(2) on unix.
| 
| times() is not used anywhere in timemodule.c.

oops, forgot to mention that clock(3) uses times(2) on unix.

   -- erno



From dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au  Sat Aug 25 21:15:41 2001
From: dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au (Dave Harrison)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:15:41 +1000
Subject: Qeury about copyright
Message-ID: <20010826111541.A1006@isetroc.com>

To those who know the GPL inside out and Guido as well,

I am a student and when I am coding at University I have a limit placed on the amount that I can download during a single session from sites external to the uni.  Now because I like to code in python and I want to encourage its use in the comp sci dept as well I have been thinking about putting up a webiste based at the uni with the python doco and maybe a few essays by various people such as Guido and other people who use and have commented on python.

We currently have a Python message board, but to to make is easy for students to code in python at uni they need to have it available to them without eating up their download quota.

What restrictions are there placed on the availability of the doco and varied essays ? Can I put the doco online for people to use ?  Anything else I might want to know ?

Thanks
Dave



From paul at boddie.net  Thu Aug 16 07:44:38 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 04:44:38 -0700
Subject: Module and feature dependencies
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108160344.573e15c2@posting.google.com>

Well, after stating that I had no interest in writing a PEP, some
thoughts of mine evidently floated up into my consciousness, leading
to this vague enhancement proposal.

Despite the publication of certain proposals about introducing version
identifiers into the Python syntax, indicating the version of Python
for which a particular program is intended, such syntactic
enhancements have been regarded as unpleasant or unnecessary. Indeed,
in the context of the PEP 238 debate, the introduction of such
identifiers to indicate that a program is to adopt the newer division
semantics seems to be viewed as a "hack". However, such a debate is
unlikely to entertain consideration of wider issues with the
dependence of programs on particular features of Python and on other
Python modules, packages and extensions.

Consider Pygame (http://www.pygame.org). This package has a selection
of dependencies which the author has conveniently published (and I
hope he doesn't mind me using his work as an example). Unless explicit
verification of those dependencies have been coded into the Pygame
framework, and I'm not sure that they have been, then surprises can
result for those who have not paid appropriate attention to the
published documentation. These surprises can occur quite often when
compiled extensions are obtained for different versions of Python or
external libraries.

Whilst installing a package without paying full attention to the
published documentation could be considered foolish, it should be
remembered that human-readable documentation residing in a particular
location (in this case the package's Web site) does not necessary help
users obtaining the package from other places (such as mirror sites or
other media), nor does it help automated installation systems.

What seems to be necessary is a general dependency tracking mechanism
which will not only guard against the execution of Python programs in
environments lacking the prerequisite features, modules, extensions
and libraries, but also to allow the detection of dependency problems
in advance (before execution or even installation is attempted). One
way of achieving this may be to introduce declarations within program
files which are analysed when a program is run, but which can also be
analysed by other programs.

Of course, many systems exist which address most of the obvious issues
in this area. Package systems at the operating system level (eg. RPM,
pkgadd) can track library dependencies, configuration and build tools
(eg. autoconf, configure, make) can determine whether source code is
appropriate for a given environment, and Python has its own emerging
build infrastructure (Distutils). Nevertheless, this problem area is
worth reinvestigating with attention to PEP 241 ("Metadata for Python
Software Packages"), PEP 243 ("Module Repository Upload Mechanism"),
as well as Distutils.

This message really does state the obvious, and personally I think I
manage quite well with the dependencies my works have on other things.
However, outside my own mechanisms for managing such issues, such as
on the rare occasion when my works are downloaded by others, the
recipients of those works may not be as well protected as I am from
the dangers of version mismatches. Being able to encode dependencies
in a portable form could do a lot to make module and extension
installations easier.

Paul


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 19:36:11 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:36:11 -0400
Subject: Newbie lists question
References: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not> <3B79A74F.CBEC0A9@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B79B5EB.5D4CBFE2@engcorp.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> Wolfe Maykut wrote:
> 
> > for file in backupdir:
> >     filename = string.split(file, '/')[-1]
> >     prefix = string.split(filename,'.')[0]
> 
> >>> for file in backupdir:
> ...     filename = os.path.split(file)[1]  # you only need the filename
> component, not the path component
> ...     prefix = os.path.splitext(filename)[0]  # you only need the root
> part, not the extension
> 
> While portability may not be an issue for this particular script, it's
> really a good idea to be in the habit of using os.path for all your path
> manipulations, rather than the usual string functions.  (It's also a good
> idea to use string methods instead of the string module, unless you're
> targetting older Python installations.)

More important even than portability, is correct functionality.

I noticed that the original code doesn't work the same as 
yours, probably because yours is correct. :)  The original
takes everything *before* the first period in the filename,
while yours takes everything up to the last period.

The problem with avoiding os.path is not that you are 
missing portability, nor even that you are needlessly
reinventing the wheel.  The problem is that you are 
probably writing buggy code, whereas os.path should
be pretty reliable by now...

(Same logic applies to using lots of complicated string
operations when the 're' module could do it better. 
Not 'cause it's faster, nor easier to read, etc.... just
because it's more likely to be correct.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From new_name at mit.edu  Wed Aug 15 11:16:10 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 11:16:10 -0400
Subject: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians
References: <mailman.997854862.17910.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etdpu9x4amd.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

I would go for this if it blocked any mention of division semantics,
too. 

Alex.


From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 19 21:40:45 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:40:45 +0100
Subject: Overflow-less integer arithmetic?
References: <mailman.998292870.23050.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lqiks$a2v$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Tim:
>Do you really find such OverflowErrors more useful than not?  I'm asking
>because PEP 237 seeks to eradicate them:
>
>    http://python.sf.net/peps/pep-0237.html

Despite what I said yesterday, I have used and needed lont ints
a few times in real code.  There are two cases:
  1) I expect to get large values (>2**31) frequently
  2) I expect to get them infrequently

Case #1 is the more common, and is solved by using an 'L' in the
appropriate initialization.  There have been many times when the
omission of the L was not caught until the testing phase, which
means automatic conversion would have been prefered.

Case #2 has only occured once, where >98% of the times the
value could fit in a regular integer and I wanted the
faster math performance.  In that case I did
  try:
    operation
  except OverflowError:
    redo the operation with longs

So I have have no problems with the current 237 PEP, where
int operations convert to long rather than raising an exception.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 31 20:28:19 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:28:19 -0400
Subject: PING Help
References: <3b8fd82e$0$19384@wodc7nh6.news.uu.net>
Message-ID: <3B902BA3.90F5E5AE@engcorp.com>

brian wrote:
> 
> Hello
> Kinda new to python here is what I am trying to do
> working with windows nt a simple ping script
> this is what I have.
> _______________________________________________________
> import os
> import ping

Where did you see that you could import ping?  There
is no such module in the standard library.

When you post code that doesn't work, it's far more
useful to post the interactive session you used to
test the code.  To do that, run python interactively,
then do an 'import mycode' where your code resides
in a file called mycode.py (or whatever).  Then cut 
and paste the session into your news reader and post
it here.  

In this case, if you had done that, you would probably
have seen "ImportError: no module named ping", which
should have pointed you towards the answer.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From brian at sweetapp.com  Sat Aug 11 00:49:49 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:49:49 -0700
Subject: Pythonwin and .NET
In-Reply-To: <3B9D6654.FA287BA5@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c12221$0e8d2200$445d4540@Dell2>

Ron wrote:
> I have a question that I hope someone can partially answer.
ActiveState
> has a beta of Visual Python for .Net on their web site. I can not use
it
> because I do not have access to a beta of Microsoft's Visual Studio. 
>
> However, the ActiveState beta of Visual Python must have at least
basic
> functionality.

Visual Python is not the same is Python .NET. Visual Python is a plug-in
to VisualStudio .NET that helps you develop normal CPython applications.
It extends VisualStudio to offer:
- Python syntax coloring
- Python integrated debugging
- Python syntax error checking (errors are underlined in the editor)
- Python intellisense
- a Python class browser

Cheers,
Brian




From printers at sendme.cz  Sat Aug  4 17:02:36 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (Lad)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 14:02:36 -0700
Subject: Beginner's questions
Message-ID: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am a Perl programmer but I miss some things in Perl. For this 
reason I am looking for another, better (if any) programming 
language. Maybe Python would be my choice. Can you please 
answer the following?
1.How well threads are implemented in Python particularly under 
windows?
2.Are there any libraries for working with HTTP protocols that is 
modules that could help download( grab) web pages with GET 
methods and modules for using  also POST method without 
necessity to program these applications with sockets?
3.Are there any libraries for SMTP, POP3 and NNTP protocols?
4. Is there a program for making executable files from python 
programs?
5. What modules , except Tk, can I use for GUI programming with 
Python?
6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web 
browser directly or in other words display html file in python 
application?
7. Where can I find a available modules list?
8. What are best tutorials/books on Python?
9. Can you give me  examples of large Python application?
10. Why do YOU use Python?
11. Is it possible to to "talk" to java applets via Python?

Thank you for your answers?

Ladislav


From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Thu Aug 23 17:16:17 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:16:17 -0400
Subject: Iterating throught 2 lists at the same time
Message-ID: <9m3rmg$8u55$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
  I have the following construct:

>>> a = ['a','b','c']
>>> b = ['x','y','z']
>>> for i,j in a,b:
...     print i,j
... 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size


In my actual program the elements of a and b are themselves lists, but I 
think that does'nt  really matter (or does it?)
So, how can I iterate over a and b in 'parallel'  (ie in the first 
iteration I want a[0] and b[0] and so on)

I know I could maintain counters and use the index notation - but it seems 
a little crude for Python :) Are there any, more elegant ways?

-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug 27 13:26:07 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:26:07 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <5285736.frOyU7HbjW@lunix.schabi.de> <9md10h01g1e@enews1.newsguy.com> <r4ti7.111293$B37.2438740@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <9mdnrf02jv9@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <frvdm9.nn2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:09:33 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> [...]
>It's the stock 2.1.1 version for Windows as downloaded from comp.lang.python,
>though.

... which had better been posted in alt.binaries.* ;-)

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From no at ok.com  Sun Aug 12 11:03:50 2001
From: no at ok.com (ralf blumenstein)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:03:50 GMT
Subject: CVS & python ?
Message-ID: <qVwd7.2357$j33.1062982@nnrp5.proxad.net>

I am triing to understand if I will be able to share python sources with a Spanish
programmer.
Is CVS (concurrent version sytem) compatible with python ?

----
Ralf Blumenstein - www.freedomnetworks.de - Germany
I support Linux - GPL and free CVS accounts @  www.e-cooperators.com




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 17:47:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:47:22 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997817303.9616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lc68c1247p@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997817303.9616.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> Well, I just think that probably interpreter could
> optimize by just IMPLICITLY making caching of global
> references, like in this (current) optimization trick:
    ...
> That is, instead of tracking, simple implicit
> localizing could be used, or not?

Yes, but that would change language semantics in a
non backwards compatible way.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug 16 20:40:56 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:40:56 -0400
Subject: Python Path Blues
In-Reply-To: <tno6ar60c2c43c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEKLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Maan M. Hamze]
> Issue resolved.
> Although the search path is set in the windows NT registry, I discovered
> that it was not set in:  My Computer ..... Properties .... Environment.
> I truly thought that the registry was enough, but apparently it is not.
> Having set the PYTHONPATH in the environment the problem was resolved.
> Strange:  What is the point of the registry then?

I'm not sure, it hasn't always been this way, and *all* behaviors for
PYTHONPATH have surprised me since I first used Python on Windows.  Mark
Hammond has a Design here, but the only clues I know of as to exactly what
it is are hiding in comments attached to bug reports on SourceForge.  If you
figure it out, please submit a doc patch <0.7 wink>.

cheerfully y'rs  - tim




From sheila at spamcop.net  Fri Aug  3 18:53:00 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 22:53:00 GMT
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <23891c90.0108030118.275ea332@posting.google.com> <mailman.996859329.8866.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1lammtghnapd283ivdrtphc4vacphgsjen@4ax.com>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:21:47 -0400 (EDT), "Steven D. Majewski"
<sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.996859329.8866.python-list at python.org>:

:In my case, I think it has more to do with my wearing bifocals than
:with my editor. ( Although, if I had syntax coloring working, I might
:not need the extra spaces to see clearly! )

Here is a new free editor I've been trying out (for Windows...don't know
if that helps any).

It comes with several sets of syntax highlighting, including Python.

ConTEXT:
http://www.fixedsys.com/context/


I'm curious if anyone else has tried it out and whether they liked it or
not.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Aug  3 13:11:13 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 17:11:13 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org> <3B6AA06E.7060408@livinglogic.de> <3B6AA5F6.1050603@livinglogic.de> <PM00038AA0A688BB8B@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
Message-ID: <slrn9mlmpf.14d.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:05:23 +0200, Charlie Clark <charlie at begeistert.org> wrote:
>I understand the problem like this: Classes keep lists of their
>sub-classes *and* of their instances and "in" is a keyword which checks
>for membership in sequences.
>
>class Programmer
>	pass
>
>class GoodProgrammer(Programmer)
>	pass
>
>class BadProgrammer(Programmer)
>
>guido = GoodProgrammer()
>charlie = BadProgrammer()
>
>Is this the right way of thinking about it? If so we could then ask our
>classes to list their instances and subclasses and apply membership
>tests to them.
>
>Programmer.instance()
>>>> ['']
>Programmer.subclasses()
>>>> ['GoodProgrammer', 'BadProgrammer']
>GoodProgrammer.instance()
>>>>'Guido'
>GoodProgrammer.subclass()
>>>>['']
>etc.

If they did, they couldn't keep them as lists of strings, because instances
don't have to have names, and can have more than one, etc.  If they kept track
of a list of instances, it would have to be with weak references because
otherwise nothing would ever die.  And even if they used weak references, they
wouldn't know about things coming out of a marshal or pickle (well, I'm sure
pickle could call a registering routine, but it would be ugly).  And, if this
were implemented, 'in' wouldn't be the right operator, because you want
identitiy (is), not similarity (==).

And it wouldn't scale.  If you say 'x in int.instances()', is the system
supposed to track down every single living number and do a linear search
through all of them?  What if int has subclasses?  It would need to track all
those down too.

So, no, thinking about things as if classes keep track of all their instances
is not the right way, it's the other way around.  In dynamically typed
languages without optimizing compilers, all objects have a type tag that tells
them what they are.  Nice try, though, it's good to make those kind of
generalizations where they make sense.

Other object-oriented languages provide a 'conforms_to' or 'kind_of' message.
I don't see why python couldn't do the same:

x.instance_of(int)

>I still don't get generators btw. What does 'yield' do that 'return'
>can't

`yield' can be resumed.

def f():
    return 1
    return 2

'f' will never get to the 'return 2' no matter how many times you call it.

def f():
    yield 1
    yield 2

First of all, the new 'f' doesn't return an integer, it returns an iterator.
But the second time you call the iterator's next() method you will get a 2.


From Hans.Brand at BrandInnovators.com  Mon Aug  6 04:38:18 2001
From: Hans.Brand at BrandInnovators.com (Hans Brand)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:38:18 +0200
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <9kll08$2evmu$1@reader02.wxs.nl>

Ron,

Split() and join() should do the trick.

>>> from string import *
>>> a = 'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'
>>> join(a.split())
'fiddle faddle pip pop'
>>>

Greetings, Hans


"Ron Johnson" <ron.l.johnson at home.com> wrote in message
news:lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> Hello,
>
> Say I have the strings:
>   'foo   bar      snafu'
>   'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'
>
> Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the
> duplicate spaces out so that the files look like:
>   'foo bar snafu'
>   'fiddle faddle pip pop'
>
> I could iteratively apply string.replace, replacing '  ' with
> ' ', but that doesn't seem the optimum course.
>
> For anyone with VMS experience, I want to emulate the DCL lexical
> function F$EDIT("COMPRESS").
>
> Sincerely,
> Ron
>
> +------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Ron Johnson, Jr.        Home: ron.l.johnson at home.com       |
> | Jefferson, LA  USA      http://ronandheather.dhs.org       |
> |                                                            |
> | "Our computers and their computers are the same color. The |
> |  conversion should be no problem!"                         |
> |    Unknown                                                 |
> +------------------------------------------------------------+




From kruge at gmx.de  Sat Aug  4 17:40:30 2001
From: kruge at gmx.de (Michael Briel)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:40:30 +0200
Subject: Python for beginners
Message-ID: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi there!

I'm generally interested in Python - can anybode point me to either a book
or a page that teaches you from the beginning how to use this language? I
generally know how to program computers, but I haven't done it in ages, so
it better be "for Dummies"... ;o)

Thanks!


--
Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
<<If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing is to keep
the students from just trying to yodel right off. You see, we build to
that.>>





From md at drawcard.com  Wed Aug  8 03:01:29 2001
From: md at drawcard.com (Damian Andrews)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 01 17:01:29 +1000
Subject: Deadline for .biz & .info approaches!!
Message-ID: <200108080708.RAA27601@poxy.bigpond.net.au>

Dear Registrant, 	

The most anticipated event since the first release of the dotcoms is here!
If you haven't already done so it's time to pre-register your .biz and .info
'Top Level Domain Names' and stake your claim in what is fast becoming a LAND
RUSH, "larger than the .com phenomena". 

With the deadline to pre-register your .biz Sept 17, 2001 and Sept 12, 2001
for .info domains approaching (your only real opportunity to secure a great
.biz and/or .info) you must act now secure your trading or generic name(s).
At the close of these periods all pre-registrations will be processed first. 

Up for grabs are names like; news.biz, show.biz and adult.info because of
the 'Round Robin' [Not First Come First Serve] selection method adopted by
ICANN, the release has effectively become "The Worlds Largest Lottery".

We offer you [but only until September 18th 2001] to pre-register your
selection of great names with three of the largest biz & .info registrars [Our
Channel Partners] in a 3-5 minute process for one low price [as low as US$3.50
per name] this is the lowest price available anywhere including The
Registrars Themselves.

Heres how it works!
Pre-register with one, two or all three of our channel partners at the same
time and increase your chances of securing names like 'show.biz or
easy.info' up to 300%. Pre-register as many names as you like and save up to 50% with
volume discounts.

Free.biz!
Want to pre-register names like adult.biz for FREE. Easy.biz, simply go to
www.drawcard.com enter in your email address at our affiliate page and I will
send you an email, with your unique ID that can be forward to all in your
address book then all who enter the site by way of that link will earn you
US$1.00 per pre-registration. We have people registering 100+ names at a time.
Now that's a good.biz! Any and all names you decide to register can come
directly off your earnings or if you prefer I will send you a cheque!

More_Free.info 
?	For every 20 names or more you pre-register we will give you free for one
year a sub-domain name from the very best of our 'channels partners' like
'yourname at pro.biz', 'yourname at badboy.info'.
?	Free home page with every account.
?	Free email with every account.

This is your very best opportunity to secure 'yourfuture.biz'.
But you must Pre-Register and you must do it NOW.

Want to see more:
http://www.drawcard.com
(If this link is not working please cut and paste the link into your
browser)



If you have received this mailing in error, or do not wish to receive any
further mailings from us, simply click here put in your email address and add
Remove to the subject line:

http://www.drawcard.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=CompanyInfo

Damian Andrews
MD Drawcard.com

From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Aug 24 10:41:39 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:41:39 -0500
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:34:12 -0500, Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>Running Python 2.1
>>
>>def a():
>>   return b
>>
>>exec "a()" in {'b':1, 'a':a}
>>
>>b doesn't seem to passed as a global into the function a.
>>
>This seems possible:
> >>> exec """def a():
> ...    print 'from a()'
> ...    return b
> ... print a()
> ... """ in {'b':1, 'a':a}
> from a()
> 1
>
>I'd guess the dictionary for globals used by the function is
>determined by the context of the execution of the def?
>
If that's the case though, I would have expected a compiler/syntax 
error.  I was hoping that I could pass globals into a compiled function 
though.  Guess I'll have to look at the source code and see if this is 
not possible.

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research



From maurizio.manetti at arca.net  Mon Aug 20 06:58:23 2001
From: maurizio.manetti at arca.net (Maurizio Manetti)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:58:23 +0200
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
Message-ID: <3B80ED4F.F37FA70@arca.net>

I have the following dummy script:

	import win32con
	import win32ui

	win32ui.MessageBox("Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)

When I run it from PythonWin it works as expected.
If I save it on a script ".py" file and launch it (double click,
associated with pythonw) I get the following error:

Pythonw has caused an error in Kernel32

I get a similar error if I launch it with "python" instead of "pythonw"
If I try twice more time everything crashes and I have to reboot the
computer to make something work!

I found this problem on two different Win machine (Win98 with Python 2.0
and WinMe with Python 2.1.1)

Does anyone know why? And how to solve the problem?

Thank you in advance.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  1 14:09:54 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:09:54 -0400
Subject: [OT] RE: ????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
References: <mailman.996686763.24335.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jyX97.18897$WD1.1039533@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.996686763.24335.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote:
>
> I am glad to see international spam here to remind US people of existence
> of non-US ASCII charsets ;-)
>
> Clearly, your answer is no more readable, Kemp, because your mail program
> do not represent cyrillic characters properly.
>
> It's a pity computer software/hardware was (and still is) developed with
> such a narrow view of the world... Maybe Unicode will solve this problem.
[ ... ]

Indeed it does, as Outlook Express rendered the whole thing, including the
subject line, in apparently perfect Cyrillic for me. Not that that made me
any more able to pay them attention.

now-i-just-need-to-learn-russian(?)-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From notta at chance.net  Sat Aug 25 19:43:09 2001
From: notta at chance.net (john anon)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:43:09 -0500
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
References: <mailman.998772879.5363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lKWh7.39$Ks5.65379@nnrp2.sbc.net>

ya but --- there is no shell ... ah ... never mind


"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998772879.5363.python-list at python.org...
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, john anon wrote:
>
> > at the risk of repeating an old question
> > (I looked -- really -- I looked)
> >
> > if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
> > from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?
>
> Most likely via cmd.exe, NT/2000's command line interpreter.
>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>
>
>




From steffen.ries at sympatico.ca  Sat Aug 25 08:24:44 2001
From: steffen.ries at sympatico.ca (Steffen Ries)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 08:24:44 -0400
Subject: seg. fault with ext. module
References: <s5Kh7.41577$Vs4.366601@zonnet-reader-1>
Message-ID: <m3lmk8xr77.fsf@gondolin.beleriand>

"Gorny" <gorny at hobbiton.org> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> -----code------
> #include <Python.h>
> 
> static PyObject * makesock(PyObject *self, PyObject *args);
> 
> static PyMethodDef gforce_methods[] = {
>  {"makesock", makesock, METH_VARARGS},
>  {NULL, NULL}
> };
> 
> static PyObject * makesock(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {
>  printf("Making socket...\n");

   Py_INCREF(Py_None);

>  return Py_None;
> }
> 
> /* Initialization function for the module */
> DL_EXPORT(void) initgforce(void)
> {
>  (void)Py_InitModule("gforce", gforce_methods);
> }
> -----eof-----
> 
> >>> import gforce
> >>> gforce.makesock()
> Making socket...
> >>> Ctrl-D
> Segmentation fault
> [gorny at darkstar ~/gforce]$
> 
> How do I prevent this. If i import other modules and close the python-shell
> it'll not end with a segmentation fault, only if it's my module.. Do i have
> to make an extra function in it, which `de-inits` the module..??

You forgot to increment the reference count for None, which creates a
problem at termination time.

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html

hth,
/steffen


From giannozzo at arca.net  Mon Aug 20 11:13:57 2001
From: giannozzo at arca.net (Maurizio Manetti)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:13:57 GMT
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
References: <3B80ED4F.F37FA70@arca.net> <9lr62m01p83@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B812A8C.F1A0228E@arca.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Maurizio Manetti" <maurizio.manetti at arca.net> wrote in message
> news:3B80ED4F.F37FA70 at arca.net...
> > I have the following dummy script:
> >
> > import win32con
> > import win32ui
> >
> > win32ui.MessageBox("Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)
> >
> > When I run it from PythonWin it works as expected.
> > If I save it on a script ".py" file and launch it (double click,
> > associated with pythonw) I get the following error:
>     ...
> > I found this problem on two different Win machine (Win98 with Python 2.0
> > and WinMe with Python 2.1.1)
> >
> > Does anyone know why? And how to solve the problem?
> 
> Works fine for me on NT4 with Python 2.1.1.  I don't see any
> obvious reason why it should fail so horribly, either.

Yes, you are right, it's just a call to a windows API, but that's what
happen to me.
I also tried to reinstall pythonwin, but nothing changes.


From KurtJansen at go.com  Fri Aug 24 18:30:36 2001
From: KurtJansen at go.com (Kurt Jansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:30:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Getting User Name With Apache Basic Authentication
Message-ID: <5963105.998692236850.JavaMail.KurtJansen@gomailjtp01>

Thanks Oleg,

I had to password protect my cgi-bin directory also with .htaccess, and then this environment variable worked.  I accessed it with the os.environ['REMOTE_USER'] function.
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: "Oleg Broytmann"<phd at phd.pp.ru>
To: "Kurt Jansen"<KurtJansen at go.com>
Cc: python-list at python.org
Date: Fri Aug 24 01:02:22 PDT 2001
Subject: Re: Getting User Name With Apache Basic Authentication

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Kurt Jansen wrote:
>> I would like to set up password protected directories for my Web site
>> (Apache) using the htpasswd/.htaccess.  This means that whenever a user
>> requests a page in the protected directory, they get prompted for a
>> userid/password.  I would like to capture the userid that the user enters
>> from within my Python CGI script.  This seems like it would be a common
>> thing to do, but I can't find anything in the Python library or this
>> newsgroup that addresses it.  Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>   It has nothing with Python library. User name is available to a CGI
>program in OS environment. Just read CGI specification and figure it out.
>The variable name is REMOTE_USER. I hope you can read env vars in Python.
>
>Oleg.
>----
>     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
>


___________________________________________________
GO.com Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 09:43:35 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:43:35 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <20010824091239.G930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241721360.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> Funny you mention it...  The beginnings of the SkunkWeb FAQ are here:
> http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/FAQ.html

   Ouch! Not so good, as I though before, at least for Zope. Whether your
Mason/Webware observation is good or not so good - I cannot decide, but
you've missed Zope almost completely :(

   Let me say a few words. Don't get me wrong - I am not against SkunkWeb.
But your review should be more accurate. Let me try to argue and improve
it.

> Like Webware, Zope uses a threaded model instead of a forking model

   Forking Zope would be an issue. It is too heavy.

> DTML bites. It hits on making it easy to do easy things, but is too
> constraining for the expert because you don't have the full flexibility
> of Python in the tags.

   DTML is presentation language. Don't mix logic and presentation. If you
need Python - just use Python, not DTML.

> I know that they are working on their next templating language (ZTL)

   ZPT - Zope Page Templates. It is not "next", it is just another,
different approach. But still - if you need Python - use Python, do not
program in ZPT.

> Many people have written about how having the templates in the ZODB
> instead of a filesystem can be a pain because you can't use all of your
> usual filesystem tools/editors/etc.

   Yes, this is correct. Zope Corporation has a plan to move those objects
into OS filesystem.

> Extending Zope is complicated

   Arguable. For simple extensions there are ZClasses. And writing a simple
Python Product (module, component) is not a hard task. And even for more
complicated Products Zope has a very nice API/classes/etc, so you don't
nned to program everything. You already have persistent, web interface,
etc.

> SkunkWeb (like Webware) was designed to be easily extendible and
> customizable.

   I want to read more on this! How to write a DB connector? a module? an
object to be published?

> To call arbitrary code from Zope templates, you have to create Python
> Method objects, which let's be honest, is a pain.

   Where is the pain?

> STML has an import tag

   Insecure?

> I may be wrong on this one, but I don't think that Zope allows you to
> cache the output of a template.

   There are cacheing Products.

> Modularity. It's pretty difficult to pull the cool bits out of Zope

   It is pretty easy to use ZServer, or ZODB, or DTML, or ZPublisher
outside of Zope.

   Now few words about Zope. Zope has an Object request Broker (may be
SkunkWeb has it, too). ZServer is a multiprotocol server that already
understands HTTP, PCGI, FastCGI, FTP, WebDAV protocols; it is modular,
there is, for example, module for HTTPS protocol. There are many Database
Adapters for relational databases: MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, Informix,
Interbase, Sybase, ODBC. Security integrated into Zope, and is really very
well implemented. Acquisition allows you to do very powerful object
publishing. ZClasses are for simple programming. ZCatalog - integrated
search system. ZEO - clustering component. Many good Products. A lot of
good documentation.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From just at letterror.com  Fri Aug 10 06:00:32 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:00:32 +0200
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org>
	 <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com> <O9cyYLA3c5c7Ewm7@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B73B0C0.ECC3F567@letterror.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> on the other hand
> 
> python-byte
>     A Column from a Wrestling Fan who tells it like it is! If you can't
> handle the truth, then don't read it! The Python's Byte is brought to
> you by Colin Q. Allegedly has more members than python-list.

As usual <wink> I have no idea what you're talking about.

(The number of members of python-list is of course a fraction of
the number of people who read it: it's gatewayed to and from
comp.lang.python after all...)

Just


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Tue Aug  7 10:24:16 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:24:16 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com>

Well there's an obvious "just do it" recursive
version. Something like

def CartesianProduct(alist):

  res = []

  if len(alist) < 2:
    for x in alist[0]:
      res.append([x])
  else:
    tails = CartesianProduct(alist[1:])
    for x in alist[0]:
      for t in tails:
        res.append([x]+t)
    
  return res

print CartesianProduct([[1,2,3],[4,5], [6,7,8]])

seems to do what you seem to want. (That's not
supposed to be an optimal solution: it makes
a lot of assumptions about the input, and
no doubt it can be written in far fewer lines,
using the functional-programming functions 
and/or new-fangled Python... but it works, and
I think it's easy to see why it works. A "map"
in place of the first loop would probably be
quicker; I have no idea whether a list
comprehension in place of the second (double)
loop would be faster, because they have sometimes
turned out to be slower in places where you'd
think they'd be faster.)

On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:48:54 +0100, Mark Robinson
<m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote:

>I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;)) 
>trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure 
>that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial 
>problem.
>
>I have a nested list structure of the following format:
>[[2, 3, 4, 5],
>  [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
>  [6, 2, 7, 4]
>  ....
>  ....
>]
>
>I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from 
>each nested list
>
>i.e
>[2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
>[2, 4, 2, ..., ...]
>
>If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code 
>it as a series of nested for loops:
>
>i.e
>
>for i in list[0]:
>	for j in list[1]:
>		for k in list[2]:
>				comb = [i, j, k]
>
>but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the 
>outermost list is going to be variable in length.
>
>If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and 
>give you all the profit ;)

Probably the simplest thing is if you send the check to David Ullrich
at "Department of Mathematics, OSU, Stillwater, OK 74078". Thanks.

>Blobby
>


David C. Ullrich


From syt at pegasus.logilab.fr  Wed Aug 22 04:15:54 2001
From: syt at pegasus.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:15:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Sylvain Thenault <syt at pegasus.logilab.fr> wrote:
>On 21 Aug 2001, Michael Williams <michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>I'm an undergraduate doing a relatively simple bit of functional
>>programming, looking at the behaviour of Lorenz attractors. My
>>department recommends (or uses as standard) Pascal. I'd rather avoid
>>this, and Python is something I've been looking into.
>>
>>(Amongst other things!) what I want to do is multiply an array of
>>floating points numbers with a float elementwise, i.e.
>>
>>>>> [1.0, 2.0, 3.0] * 4.0
>>[4.0, 8.0, 12.0]
>>
>
>IMHO, the faster way to do it consists in using builtin map function:
>
>map([1.0, 2.0, 3.0], lambda x: 4.0*x)
>
oops, this is better:
map(lambda x: x*4.0, [1.0, 2.0, 3.0])  

-- 
Sylvain Thenault

LOGILAB



From not.this at seebelow.org  Mon Aug 27 13:48:13 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 10:48:13 -0700
Subject: intentional tease ( was: New Python User Question)
References: <mailman.998816920.4899.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9me14t01035@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.998816920.4899.python-list at python.org>, tanzer at swing.co.at
says...
>
>
>Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>
>[delightful musings skipped]

Thanks. :-)

>> In Python, this function works equally well for lists, tuples, arrays,
>> or Numeric arrays full of integers, floats, or longs (except that it
>> always returns a float--darn!) That's beautiful. But in all honesty,
>> how often do you really _need_ to do generic programming? I'm
>> guessing, only a very small fraction of the time--1%, maybe? Most of
>> the time, you (the programmer) really do know what types you're
>> working with--even if Python doesn't, not because Python's stupid, but
>> because it's not as smart as you, and you haven't told it (which, if
>> you think about it, isn't really the smartest thing you ever did
>> <wink>.)
>
>Your statement about the rarity of generic programming might apply to
>you (although I doubt it) but in general its just plain wrong.

Of course, this varies depending on what you're trying to do--in both general
and in specific cases.

In all honesty, most of what _I_ use Python for could be categorized as "text
processing".  Basically, I read in a file and turn it into a different file, or
maybe make summaries of it.  (I'd like to use Python for more.)

I also once did a fairly complicated DSP simulation in Python, using NumPy. 
(Most DSP folks would use Matlab for ath, but I like Python because it's much
more beautiful.  And it's much cheaper <wink>.)

Python has become an essential tool for me, but, unfortunately, due to the
speed/size issue, I'm able to use it only for "offline" PC tasks like this.  My
own production code generally runs in embedded systems.  In those cases, due to
the inherent requirement for maximum speed and minimum size, one has little
choice but to use a compiled language.  (Historically, due to compiler
availability, one has had little choice in DSP but to use C, though C++
compilers have recently become available for DSP microprocessors.)

In embedded systems (and many other application domains), using an interpreter
is simply not an option.  Other posts in this thread have suggested that the
lesser speed of Python is worth what you gain in development time.  I
wholeheartedly agree--at least in those cases where you can trade the two.  For
the offline data processing I do, it's a no-brainer: use Python.

But depending on how many embedded boxes one plans to sell, the ease of
development of Python can _truly_ be false economy, if it forces you to put $10
of extra computer inside the box.  (Python still makes a good prototyping
language, though.)  More imporatantly, you sometimes simply couldn't get there
from here if you used an interpreter.

Although there are might be some folks who can spend 100.0% of their programming
lives in Python (except when they have to write extension modules <wink>), I
suspect that _most_ folks who use Python do part of their work in Python and
part in a compiled language--probably C/C++.

*KEY POINT*: Anything that greatly speeds Python (and a compiler--in whatever
form--is the only thing we can reasonably expect would, after 10 years of
careful tweaking by lots of talented folks!) increases the percentage of
programs we can write in Python.  That is undeniably A Good Thing.

However, in working on my little project, I've realized that even leaving
dynamic variables aside, certain things in the design of Python are inherently
"slow".  A simple example is the fact that Python allows negative array indices.
When implementing that, one can only check for a negative index, then add the
length.  And even if it wasn't negative, you have to bounds-check the result, to
possibly raise an IndexError.  (An "assert" won't do: the Python code might have
been written to rely on an IndexError.)

Therefore, compiled Python will always be slower than something written from
scratch in C++ (which doesn't do bounds-checking: you write it where you need it
rather than it happening automatically in every case).

>
>Using generics in Ada or templates in C++ might be difficult for the
>average programmer but doing generic programming in Python is so
>trivial that just about everybody does it.

True.  Like I said, I was doing it in Python and I didn't even know it.  I guess
that means it must be easy!

But for the vast majority of offline text-processing tasks I do in Python, I'm
not sure generic programming is of much use.  In these cases, the data consists
almost entirely of strings, lists of strings, dictionaries of strings, etc.  And
I, the programmer, know all that in advance.  In such cases, I'm writing code
that wants to be statically typed, and that makes it a good candidate for
compilation.

Although Python has a few methods common among strings, lists, and tuples, any
code that uses a special string method (e.g. split) wants the string to be
statically typed: you're not going to be using that code for lists, tuples,
ints, floats, files, etc.

I bet there's nobody who has used Python for more than a month that hasn't used
a string method.  Moral of the story: even those who claim to do a lot of
generic programming don't do it 100.0% of the time, so even they can benefit
from a little static typing.

>Every time somebody
>reassigns sys.stdout to something which is not a file, they are are
>enjoying the benefits of generic programming.

But we can do that sort of thing in C and C++, even without templates.  C
pointers are good for that (Python uses 'em!), and C++ virtual functions are
even better.  Dynamic typing is just one technique among many to do generic
programming.

>
>> OK, so what if a system already existed that provided the benefits of
>> generic programming (when you _do_ need it), without the overhead?
>> What if that system wasn't Python, but, with a little work (a _lot_ of
>> work actually--that's why I need your help!), could be made to _seem_
>> like Python?
>> =
>
>> I'm seeing a speed factor that ranges from about 1:1 to 70:1,
>> depending on the algorithm. Also, as compiled programs, my executables
>> are a lot smaller than equivalent "frozen" Python programs, and are
>> *much* harder to de-compyle.
>
>Now that certainly sounds interesting. 

Thanks.  (Maybe my little dishwasher story worked <wink>.)

>Will your system also allow the
>use of generic programming when the need for it was not foreseen by
>the original author of the code (for instance, the passing of an
>object of a compatible but completely different type as an argument to
>a function)?

Yes.  It's built on top of another system of generic programming, so that
capability comes for free.  Suppose you invent a new type XYZ and you want to
make a list of XYZs.  No problem.  Suppose you want to reassign sys.stdout. 
Enjoy.

Also, it comes with its own system of dynamic types.  I'm not sure this part is
really mature yet, but it does work.  For example, an averaging function similar
to what I posted previously accepts lists or tuples populated with integers or
floats.

BTW, I learned something important in this thread.  I originally created my
system of dynamic types mainly just to emulate Python--and also because it was a
fun design problem.  In all honesty, though, I didn't really think anybody would
use it much if a system of static types was available.  But I just learned that
it _is_ important, if for no other reason than user acceptance.  (When you
create something like this, you have to eliminate as many excuses not to use it
as you can <wink>.)

But I bet the static types will be much more popular in the end.  I'm not sure
that my system of dynamic types will run a whole lot faster than Python's.  (I
haven't benchmarked it yet.)  Instead, I think the real "bang-for-the-buck" of
my system (in terms of speed) is due its option of using static types.

>If not I'd rather stay with Python.

I'm not trying to replace Python, just expand it's universe.  When the benefits
of speedier, smaller-than-"frozen", more obscured executables are not of
interest, Interpreted Python will *always* be a better choice than my system. 
Interpreted Python will always have more features, and will always be more
mature.  I don't have any plans to stop using Interpreted Python myself.

However, I suspect that one or more of the benefits of Compyled Python will be
of interest to nearly everybody at some time or another.  (Just ask yourself: If
such a thing existed, worked well, and were free, would I use it?  Honest answer
for most folks: yes, at least every now-and-then.)

Remember, folks, I come not to bury* Ceasar, but to praise him.

filching-is-the-sincerest-form-of-flattery-ly y'rs,

=g2
*or depose

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:41:05 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:41:05 +0200
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ktlrf01vcs@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997328534.2490.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but the
> change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be a bad
> incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this reason I'm
> going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().

It's a *GOOD* incompatibility, albeit a definite one, so might
we PRETTY PLEASE get a from-future-import hack so we can have
the right behavior for dir in the future without breaking stuff
now...?


Alex





From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Mon Aug 20 10:44:52 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:44:52 GMT
Subject: MSHTML
References: <mailman.998265329.9432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9103A787E553Ercamesz@127.0.0.1>

Jay Parlar wrote:

> For the application that my colleague and I are working on, it is
> necessary that we be able to take the raw HTML of some document and
> pull out just the text, with all tags removed. 
> 
> [COM stuff snip'd]
>
> My question: Is there any method to supress all the other IE stuff
> so I can essentially use MSHTML as a pure replacement to
> HTMLParser? 

All that trouble just to get at the plain text of HTML-documents? That 
sounds a bit over the top to me. The only possibe reason I can think of 
to justify it is if Javascript or VBScript issues document.write()'s or 
modifies  some part of the DOM directly. (That might also have 
something to do with why the thing crashes every now and again: perhaps 
concurrent access to the DOM tree isn't too reliable. Perhaps there's a 
property which you can query to check if the document is fully loaded 
and processed.)

I am afraid I don't know how to suppress all that IE stuff, but I 
presume that at least for some of those nag-messages properties can be 
set to get rid of those, along with other security-related settings. 
You really need to get some documentation about the HTML COM object, I 
guess searching the MSDN site would be a good place to start. But I'd 
be willing to bet you can't get rid of all unwanted behaviour.

Alternatively, why not run an HTML file through W3C's Tidy first, that 
will get rid of most of the errors (providing it doesn't get too 
confused) and continue to use Python's HTML (or SGML) parser. That 
would seem like a much more robust (and portable) scheme.


Robert Amesz


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 06:02:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:02:32 +0200
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org><cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l5k630luj@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Fran?ois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.997568899.18926.python-list at python.org...
> [Guido van Rossum]
>
> > If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
can
> > do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
breaking
> > code this way, but maybe it's OK.  At least 'yield' is not a silent
break.
>
> My voice is surely not representative, but it is a voice nevertheless.
> When the direction is good, I prefer to see things moving forward, and
> would avoid `from __future__' here.  Yet, I also understand the concerns
you
> have about not disturbing other Python users.  My opinion is that globally
> replacing `yield' by something else, using about any editor, is an easy
> challenge.  It could be advised somewhere in the transition documentation.

Since this is apparently a straw vote or something, let me add my
voice to Fran?ois's -- particularly since I was the one originally
opining that a 'from __future__' would be needed anyway, and I
was wrong.  Yes: given that it's not a SILENT break, it's probably
OK to make yield a keyword "cold turkey".  I do have a couple of
uses of it (curiously with quite different semantics) but a global
search and replace will fix them.


Alex





From andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 02:25:33 2001
From: andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 06:25:33 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from ENGSOL
References: <mailman.997066209.23085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F5A76525F4Aatodddexterpinioncom@203.2.194.51>

<fleet at teachout.org> wrote in
<<mailman.997066209.23085.python-list at python.org>: 

>
>I think I'm hung up on the substitution thing again.  If I wanted to
>name this 'show.py' and be able to use 'python show.py math' on the
>command line - how do I get "import sys.argv[1]" to work.  (and I would
>already have imported 'sys.')  I tried 'eval()' without success - kept 
>getting "invalid syntax" although the proper string was shown.
>
>                         - fleet -

OK, using the code below and encapsulating it in a function, we get 
something like;

"""
def getDoc(moduleName):
    "Print all of the doc strings for a module"
    module=__import__(moduleName)
    for x in dir(module):
        try:
            print "%s\n%s\n%s\n" % (x, '-'*35, module.__dict__[x].__doc__)
        except AttributeError:
            print "*** no __doc__ for %s.%s\n" % (moduleName, x)
"""

If you want to put this into an executable (getdoc.py for instance), add 
this at the bottom of the file;

"""
if __name__=="__main__":
    if sys.argv[1]:
        getDoc(sys.argv[1])
"""

And Bob's your Auntie's live in lover. Of course, you need to import sys 
and os at the top of the file for it to actually work. 

Oh, and there are a couple of smalls problem with the function 'getDoc' as 
it stands; 

- It prints the __doc__ strings of all of the modules that are imported by 
module. Thats potentially an awful lot of output. Do you really want to see 
all of it?

- It doesn't print the __doc__ string of module. It will try to print 
module.__doc__.__doc__ which will always (probably) raise an 
AttributeError.

I leave the resolution of those two 'issues' to the reader ;-)

>
>>   From: Tom Robinson <tom at alkali.spamfree.org>
>>Subject: Re: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported
>>module...from ENGSOL 
>>
>>Here's a hack to show the __doc__ for everything in a module:
>>
>>import os
>>
>>for x in dir(os):
>>    try:
>>        print "%s\n%s\n%s\n" % (x, '-'*35, os.__dict__[x].__doc__)
>>    except AttributeError:
>>        print "*** no __doc__ for os.%s\n" % (x)
>>
>>--
>>tom at alkali.spamfree.org
>>remove 'spamfree.' to respond
>>--
>
>
>

Regards,
Andy
-- 
Content free posts a speciality


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 09:11:57 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:11:57 -0500
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
In-Reply-To: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <15247.36125.220801.298960@beluga.mojam.com>

    Fred> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?

I'm sure there are more clever ways, but this seems to work:

    def separate(n, sep=','):
        ln = list(str(n))
        ln.reverse()
        newn = []
        while len(ln) > 3:
            newn.extend(ln[:3])
            newn.append(sep)
            ln = ln[3:]
        newn.extend(ln)
        newn.reverse()
        return "".join(newn)

    >>> separate("2342342342344567")
    '2,342,342,342,344,567'
    >>> separate("2342342342344567", sep=' ')
    '2 342 342 342 344 567'
    >>> separate(5)
    '5'
    >>> separate(35)
    '35'
    >>> separate(235)
    '235'
    >>> separate(1235)
    '1,235'
    >>> separate(1235, ' ')
    '1 235'

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 20:02:23 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:02:23 GMT
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical data problem
Message-ID: <jqkc7.138856$um3.834172@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

I apologize if this is a dupe.  I tried to post earlier and
it appeared not to send out.

I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
set of data.  (Forgive me if I am not using the proper
terminology or if what I mean by a term is completely
different from what the rest of you mean by the same
term.  I am still a very new newbie and am just
converting to Python after a couple of years of perl.
I will try to clarify what I mean.)  By hierarchical,
I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
and that the parents and children should be aware of
one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
the parent should be aware of its children and
children should be aware of their parents).  By
dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
variable and will be defined at run time.  I would
prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.
 Right now, I have the following, which is a three
tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
other:

################################
cs1_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs1_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd3 = {'CLOSE2': 'RESULTS'}
cs3_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs3_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}

command_set1 = {'cmd1': cs1_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs1_cmd2}
command_set2 = {'cmd1': cs2_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs2_cmd2,
'cmd3': cs2_cmd3}
command_set3 = {'cmd1': cs3_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs3_cmd2}

test_set = {'TEST1': command_set1,'TEST2':
command_set2,'TEST3': command_set3}
#################################

which I can manipulate with much weeping gnashing of
teeth.  A couple of problems with this (other than the
fact that it is just plain hideous to look at):

1) A child doesn't really know who its parent is.
2) The data is not dynamic: it has to be built from
within the script at design time and not run time.
3) On the dynamic topic, I can't just add a child.  I
have to create kind of a reference in the parent to
another dictionary.
4) It is scattered across 11 dictionaries (even though
it has one base dictionary that acts as the root
parent).

I want to do the above more elegantly, more concisely
and less painfully.  I have read the python FAQ,
searched usenet, searched Google, scoured
www.python.org and have only come up with a few
possibilities for doing what I want to do (such as
metaclasses and acquisition and some virtual file
systems), but I am not sure that they will address the
solution for the problem that I have.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can begin to
attack my problem?  Does anyone have any ideas on
specific methodologies for dynamically named
hierarchical data?  Can anyone point me in the
direction of documentation that might aid me in my
quest?  Does anyone know of similar projects that I
may be able to look at?

Any assistance would be most appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


Jeremy Jones






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:10:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:10:13 +0200
Subject: Newbie question Python on Windows ME
References: <d136f764.0108160839.3cd24e8@posting.google.com> <3b7bf8e9.8917437@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lh9cl01qmi@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b7bf8e9.8917437 at news.t-online.de...
> On 16 Aug 2001 09:39:51 -0700, s.franke at flowstate.com (stefan) wrote:
>
> > Are there any tutorials for beginners on the internet that are
> >specifically written for Windows?
>
> For windows I would recommend using the Pythonwin IDE that is part of
> www.activestate.com/activepython. [There was I think a standalone
> distro of Pythonwin although I don't know of its status].

It's still available, as part of Activestate's win32all add-on to
the standard Python distribution.  In other words, if you start
with the standard Python distribution, you can later download
from ActiveState, and install later, win32all, and get pretty
close to where ActivePython would have gotten you in the first
place (not quite, though).

> - Pythonwin is an excellent GUI ide - on Windows most people don't
> like the commandline, and especially on the 9x/ME series the
> commandline is seriously lacking in features. It has a builtin editor

But IDLE comes with standard Python and works fine (you'll prefer
PythonWin if you like the MDI style, but that's now passe on Win32).

> with syntax highlighting, folding, etc. It has a nice debugger. It
> integrates with SourceSafe etc.
> - Searchable (CHM) Helpfiles

You can get good CHM files at
http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pytstuff.html.  It may be
worth doing even if you have ActivePython, since those
add more material, such as the FAQs and /F's Tkinter intro.

> - ActivePython has much deeper Windows integration. (eg, you can use
> COM objects in it, use it for client-side browser scripting and all
> sorts of fine stuff)

You get all this with the win32all add-on, too.


Don't get me wrong: ActivePython is excellent -- I'm just pointing
out that there are interesting alternatives, too (though they'd all
be almost for naught were it not for win32all...:-).


Alex





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Aug  9 02:14:36 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:14:36 -0700
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
References: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net>
Message-ID: <3B722A4C.F8D9005C@alcyone.com>

Mark Sass wrote:

>     I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want
> to
> call on an object.

So you mean methods.

> How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
> function call?  Here is an example
> 
> funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
> x = len(funclist)
> y = 0
> while y < x:
>     value = testobj.funclist[y]
>     y = y +1

What you want is the getattr function, which takes an object and a
string representing an attribute name (but with no parentheses).  You
can then call that.

Another obvious thing missing is the for idiom, which iterates over
list.  This means you can avoid the while loops and the iteration
variable:

	methods = ['method1', 'method2', 'method3']
	for method in methods:
	    value = apply(getattr(testobj, method), ())

getattr turns the instance and the string attribute name into a bound
object, then apply calls it.  The () is the tuple of arguments, which in
this case is empty.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is like war:  easy to begin but very hard to stop.
\__/ H.L. Mencken
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug  7 12:20:37 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:20:37 +0100
Subject: Zope python paths
References: <0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <9kotiu$265g$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Al0xeVAVVBc7EwHr@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <9kotiu$265g$1 at norfair.nerim.net>, Gillou <nospam at bigfoot.com> writes
>Robin,
>
>Have a look at this registry key (for me, it's in Win2K):
>
>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.1\PythonPath
>
>I think a python 2.1 engine for Windows will find the python path here at
>startup.
>Make some changes to this key (i.e, add any directory) and see what happends
>in your Zope test.
>If it changes in your Zope test too, perhaps you should provide a PYTHONPATH
>in the script that starts Zope to override this.
>Or make a small change in the Z2.py
>
>--Gilles
....
OK it seems to ignore 2.1\PythonPath default value
        C:\Python\Lib\plat-win;C:\Python\Lib;C:\Python\DLLs;C:\Python\Lib\lib-tk

but the subkeys
PythonWin=C:\Python\Pythonwin
win32=C:\Python\win32;C:\Python\win32\lib
win32com=C:\Python 

seem to be respected. I have changed z2.py to eliminate these and my
 path now looks OK.
Seems to me like an official 'install' should take care
to eliminate initial paths which aren't below sw_home\bin.
-- 
Robin Becker


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 10:54:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:54:41 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996682083.19421.python-list@python.org> <9kb8mq02bd2@enews1.newsguy.com> <Xns90F19B5D37704michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <9kbpjj0kb@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns90F19B5D37704michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
> [posted and mailed]
>
> Alex, I'd like to say more in response to your very interesting message
> below, but it's difficult to know where to begin.  I agree wholeheartedly
> with your sentiments, but I'm wondering if you're aware of just how
> difficult what you're describing is to achieve!?

I suspect we may be talking at cross-purposes -- I don't request
a language that will in fact absolutely CHECK assertions containing
universal or existential quantifiers, nor one that will always be
able to take advantage of them to further optimization or other
type-inference goals: just one that will let me *express* such
assertions simply, which, per se, isn't all that hard.

Surely it wouldn't be the first time a language let me express
design-intent aspects without committing any implementation of
the language to doing anything in particular about them!  Don't
you recall the 'register' keyword in C, for example?  Nowadays
compilers do their own register allocation -- but I still get to
express my design intent "and, I believe this thing here should
live in a register" to my heart's content.  Not much, as far
as expression design intentions goes, but, a start.  Similarly,
I recall BSD variants where my programs were ALLOWED to give
hints to the operating systems about their intentions wrt some
files or memory areas -- "I think I'll just read this file
right through" or "I'll jump up and down all over this file
in random-access so I don't think I would bother doing any
prefetch if I were you", and so on, and so forth.  Sometimes,
when reading such programs, such expressions of design intent
were illuminating, in ways that comments and other forms of
documentation rarely are.  And, hey, maybe SOME versions of the
system did/will take advantage of my design-hints, so, why not?

We may have gotten too focused on the imperative and declarative
to exploit the value of *design-intent hints*.  The assertions
I'd like to be able to make aren't just hints, but even if they
work like no more than that, I still think they'd be a pre-req
before one can state a language has types in a meaningful sense.

Eventually, 'checking modes' where some of the assertions were
partially checked (maybe just at runtime, maybe just during
some kinds of very thorough tests...), and 'optimizing modes'
where some of the assertions were relied upon for possible
optimizations (maybe just when compiling with "optimize all
you can please" flags), might emerge.  Automatic deductions
and inferences would be a potential further step.  But I think
the key step is the first one -- ALLOWING me to express those
design-intent constraints!  I won't pay a dime extra to be
able to say something pretty useless such as "I intend X to
be a list" (particularly because it's *NOT* what I _really_
should intend -- 'a mutable sequence', MAYBE:-); I might be
much better disposed could I express "I intend X to be a
mutable sequence with an odd number of items such that at
all times items with an even positive index are strictly
greater than either of their neighbors" -- now *THAT* is
what I'd call "typing".  (No, I wouldn't insist on THAT
being checked at compile-time... even checking it at RUN
time might be expensive enough that I'd be quite content
with only checking partially, and/or only when using certain
flags, if at all -- but my point is that, THIS is the kind
of things I find myself wishing I *COULD* usefully express,
*NOT* 'X is a list', 'Y is a complex', 'Z is a tuple of
float'... so, I think that for languages to claim they're
doing 'typing checks' for me, when such trivialities is all
they can or do check, violates truth in advertising!-).


Alex





From SPMSXsunkcosts at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 16:20:49 2001
From: SPMSXsunkcosts at pobox.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:20:49 -0500
Subject: Python Books
References: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3B850C4E.CE483F1A@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <230820011520496447%SPMSXsunkcosts@pobox.com>

In article <3B850C4E.CE483F1A at jam.rr.com>, Rob Andrews <rob at jam.rr.com>
wrote:
 
> *Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours* (published by SAMS) is actually a
> nice beginner text. I was skeptical because of the title, but it has
> turned out to be a local favorite.

I am about midway through this, and I have to give a newbie thumbs down
to this one. The author seems earnest enough in wanting to spread the
Python love. He also gives you solid advice in approaching Python
programming from a 50K foot level.

But the methodology and examples are a real drag for a newbie like me.
Too much time is wasted on general conceptual history and theory when
discussing Python components, and not enough time spent on giving a lot
of examples of Python code in understandable settings. 

As soon as a newbie builds that first, tiny app that makes their life a
tad bit easier, they'll be hungry to learn more, and they'll process
new info that much faster. You can't get this rush by talking about
theory, and the author's personal, eclectic interests can be a real
drag if you're not interested in the same thing (Mayan calendars,
number theory, programming history, etc.) 

It's not just me; check out the Amazon reviews on this book. You'll see
a similar theme.

Steve


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 03:32:49 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:32:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oucr5.1ku.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310330480.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Michael Teo wrote:

> Thanks for your help.
> However, I noticed that Python 2.1 does not give a trailing 'L' for str(l).
> Is there any solution which will work well for Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1 ?

s=str(n)
if s[-1]=='L':
  s=s[:-1]

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Wed Aug 22 19:43:03 2001
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:43:03 +0200
Subject: IRC Client : Where to begin
In-Reply-To: <sdVg7.14129$V7.421320@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <sdVg7.14129$V7.421320@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <01082301430300.00436@phoenix>

On Wednesday 22 August 2001 23:16, you wrote:
> [lots of tiny little (unimportant) development remarks removed]

Dear Relfx,

it is true, or does it only appear to me, that you have never programmed 
seriously (better: larger projects) in Python (or in any other language) 
before? (Your question whether it is better to partition a project into 
separate files or not)

Nor had any contact with the basic layer of TCP/IP communication (which the 
module asynchat adresses)? (Your question of where to begin with all the 
documentation that was offered)

Nor had any contact with the low layer of the IRC protocol (not that what 
mIRC offers you)? (You asked it directly)

Nor had any contact with a different OS than Windows 98-2000? (Your question 
concerning GUI vs. Non-GUI; Windows is actually always GUI, except for 
DOS-mode, which dropped out in 2000 anyway)

Sorry to have to say it that way, but you're missing on all the important 
programming principles that are the basis when trying to write a program that 
serves as a client for the Internet Relay Chat Network. <wink>

I guess that you want to start to learn programming Python, but why not try 
something smaller (and different) for a start?

What I'll try to do here is layout something I did when I started programming 
back in the 80's. (I was in primary school back then)

I had started programming an external interface I got for running my 
model-train, but I never knew what I did, I just had a big hunk of 
documentation that was with the interface and I always kept typing in 
commands they listed (used GWBasic back then).

<--- Ad 1-4: That's the situation you are facing now. People sent you lots of 
documentation info that you actually don't know how to use because you don't 
know about the basics. --->

Well, I wasn't too satisfied with that, I wanted to do something on my own. 
But as I didn't know what all those commands were doing, I realized that I 
would first have to walk my way up the ladder with something different.

I chose something that I thought would be handy in school, a little program 
that would ask me maths-questions like (200/40?) and would wait for an input 
and then compare that to the true result. If it matched, it would say 'OK!', 
otherwise it would beep and say 'Wrong...'.

Well those were (I think, I wouldn't be able to reproduce them today 
anyways... ;)) 10-20 lines of Code in GWBasic, but I knew exactly what they 
were doing.

Some days later I expanded the whole thing. I added a loop that would ask a 
question at least three times before giving up with 'Wrong...', some days 
later again I expanded the whole thing with a scoring system based on the 
time it took to answer, some days later again I expanded the whole thing with 
a system that would only give you a certain amount of time to answer a 
question, etc. etc. etc.

Then in '88 I got MS QuickBasic 4.5. I ported the whole thing (yep, Basic was 
incompatible with Basic), and tried to add some fancier text-mode graphics 
such as a text-mode banner which could only be viewed well when I put my PC 
on slow mode (I had an 80386 SX-16 back then, man was that fast ;))

When in '91 I got access to Turbo C++ 3.0 (a different programming language), 
I ported the whole thing to C++. And in time I added support for TurboVision, 
that was a text-based GUI-Interface they were shipping along. And I added 
DOS-mode sound support using direct writes to the SoundBlaster (yes, direct 
hardware programming was still in back then)

Then in '94 I got access to MS C++ 6.0 (I think it was...). And thats when I 
did my first step towards GUI-programming, still using the old Windows 
<yuckyucky> API. I didn't come far here, btw. It actually stagnated my 
programming for three years... ;)

And when in '97 I got access to MS Visual C++ 5.0 (yet a different 
programming language), I ported the whole thing and again added support for a 
GUI based on the MFC. And I added support for TTS and Voice-Control of the 
program using the stuff that they shipped with MS Visual C++ 5.0 Enterprise.

And also in '97 I started with Tcl (and esp. Linux), to which I ported the 
whole thing again (of course without all the fancy features of TTS, etc.)

... blablabla

I could continue now, but I think you get the point. Start off small (to 
learn the basics), and then always keep adding things on top. You have to 
start this way bottom up, only a true genius will succeed top down.

Why not take a small project that might come in handy for you in daily life 
(you choose one), then go and buy a good book on Python, and then learn 
Python and especially good programming practice step by step by implementing 
something like I did above?

Please, please, please, take my advice seriously!

Don't let yourself be disencouraged (and I know its a stony road), but please 
start from bottom up! For one you have an actual feeling of success when you 
have built a small project, and secondly you feel even more success when you 
manage to add a feature to the project.

On another note: I really don't understand why you still keep asking people 
in this newsgroup/mailinglist for help, as noone has so far offered help 
besides giving you references to documentation, but which you yourself say 
don't (yet) mean much to you. I'm also going to give you documentation at the 
end, but this documentation is not about anything concerning your IRC-client 
project, but rather something general about programming and Python.

And on a third note: I guess people here actually aren't all that fancied by 
the idea of having an IRC-client that is scriptable through Python (or 
written in Python). It sounds hard, but that's Usenet. People will only get 
annoyed when you continue "bugging" them in this fashion. Believe me, I've 
had this experience more than once, and it's absolutely no fun to be on 
thetarget list of a mail-loop. <wink> ;)

Don't flame me for this message; in my eyes this had to be said. And Relfx 
don't let my words discourage you, Python is a way cool programming language 
which is easy to learn, and fun to discover. (btw. I'm new to Python too, 
started looking into it about 3 Months ago after I felt angry with Perl once 
too often... ;))

And if anyone is interested, the little program that I still try to write in 
every language I move to is called "KOPF". ("Kopfrechnen" means calculating 
in your head in German... ;))

-- 
Yours sincerely,

	Heiko Wundram
	Head and founding-member of the "Celler Open Source Gemeinde"
		(Celle Open Source Community)



From mestesso100 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 25 01:57:23 2001
From: mestesso100 at yahoo.com (FunkyTritone)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 22:57:23 -0700
Subject: Can zope do this?
Message-ID: <71550321.0108242157.2ee16aa8@posting.google.com>

Sorry if this is off topic, I couldn't find a zope specific ng.

I'm learning Zope these days, and I'd like to put up a server with
it, but before I invest time and money I'd like to know if Zope
is the correct tool for what I'm trying to do:
I'm trying to semplify the creation of "standard" company sites.
With standard I mean the they need a subset of the usual services
(news, catalogs, user registration). The PHP + MySQL solution works
fine but it takes too much time to build everthing. And using
Zope I could use their wonderful admin as back office.
So I'd like to create with zope these services (catalog, ...),
and somehow create the new site putting all these pieces together,
and giving the site administrator (the one who controls the site
contents) some specific access (to insert new products, etc..) to the zope admin.

Can it be done? Is a good idea giving the site admin some access to 
the zope admin? Or should I build some back office interface from
scratch? (I'd love to use Zope's admin, it's just wonderful)

How many sites do you think I could serve from such a Zope server
(usually small sites, few megs of data, around 1000 hits a day)?

Any answers will be really appreciated!

Thanks :-)

Giovanni


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 22:13:30 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:13:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
In-Reply-To: <7xhi7.178110$g_3.31431688@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108262210020.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:

>
> "Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.998866419.18595.python-list at python.org...
> > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:
> >
> > > 2.  Also,
> > > >>> x = 4 + 7j
> > > >>> x.imag = 6
> > > error:  object has a read-only attrib
> > > >>> x.real = 7
> > > same error of read-olny attrib
> > >
> > > why?
> >
> > Because. I could look into the source (or point you to the source), but
> the
> > answer would still simply be "Because".
> >
> So to pass a value to either the imag or real part:
> >>> a=1
> >>> b=2
> >>> c=complex(a,b)
> >>> b = 3
> >>> c=complex(a,b)
> and so on........
> or something like:
> >>> def PassValue(a,b):
> ...  r=complex(a,b)
> ...  return r
> Maan

Yeah. Or you could do something like 'r=complex(r.real, 6)', or 'r=complex(7,
r.imag)', or 'r=complex(-(r.imag), r.real)', etc.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Sat Aug  4 03:14:08 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 04 Aug 2001 17:14:08 +1000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87u1zoe1q7.fsf@xeno.localhost>

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> writes:

> [...] I've concluded  that comprehensible tersness trumps all
> other measures of merit.

Sounds good to me, Joe.
 
> I believe that there is a sort of Occam's Razor of Coding, as it were,
> where given two different programs which execute identically, the one
> which is shorter, simpler, and easier to understand is the better
> program, notwithstanding any principles it may or may not adhere to.
>
> Various different rules which have crept up over the years such as
> "don't use global variables," and "practice strong encapsulation,"
> and so forth are all only distractions and are useless to the degree
> that in any particular context they don't satisfy Sir Occam's relentless
> blade.

I've also been thinking similar thoughts for some time. I regularly
see people going to extreme lengths to protect themselves from
themselves. It often fails because it adds unnecessary bulk and
complexity in exchange for the false sense of security that following
a method brings with it.

Take "information hiding" as one small example. In theory it's
reasonable that _some_ data should be encapsulated and accessed only
through strictly defined interfaces. In practice, though, it's often a
case of interring trivial functionality deep inside a perilously
constructed wall of cruft.

I've seen lots of C++ and Java programs that really should have been
very simple and clean. They end up being complicated because the
majority of the program consists of small pieces of simple
functionality trying desperately to contact each other through nearly
impenetrable walls of "protection". When you're not in the mood to
laugh at it, it's a truly pitiful spectacle.

-- 
         And there's a dreadful law here -- it was made
     by mistake, but there it is -- that if anyone asks
                     for machinery they have to have it
                                   and keep on using it.


From rtexier at elikya.com  Fri Aug 10 08:06:52 2001
From: rtexier at elikya.com (Romuald Texier)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:06:52 +0200
Subject: pyFlash
References: <Qshc7.32632$5c.2387629@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <9l0igv$ke4$1@news.irisa.fr>

MNX tech services wrote:

> Would it make sense to use static Flash 5.0 pages as a browser-based GUI
> against a Python backend?  Wouldn't it have the advantage of displaying
> absolutely uniformly across all platforms, along with providing a vast
> array of widgets?
> 
> KSmith
> 
> 

Do you know about  B.Y.P. ?
http://web.interpuntonet.it/bypserver/



-- 
Romuald Texier
http://iprotools.elikya.com


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Sun Aug  5 09:23:55 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:23:55 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <3B6C22DC.7060509@herts.ac.uk> <otaomt8mh72m48hjc6ru2eu9ms1uo9nogr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B6D48EB.9080001@herts.ac.uk>


Courageous wrote:

>> Well, never one to simply take someones word I have performed a small 
>> scale experiment to test your previous statement. I conclude that it 
>> needs a small modification. It isn't strictly true that you can't pick 
>> your friends nose, but it is surely true that you shouldn't.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure about that. Perhaps your approach was all wrong. I recommend
> the following experiment. Approach 100 women at random in your local mall.
> Kindly ask permission to pick their nose. Report your results back here.

unfortunately if you ask for permission you end up with a sample size of 
zero. Guess it is probably a fundamental limitation of science

blobby



From dcinege at psychosis.com  Sun Aug 19 19:27:48 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:27:48 -0400
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
References: <mailman.997917625.3557.python-list@python.org> <i4hgl9.ok1.ln@127.0.0.1> <6barntgq6dnednsa03d5f9elbo0vip2mkt@4ax.com> <2133453.fYGdeWWPft@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B804B74.E8CBFC3C@psychosis.com>

Markus Schaber wrote:
> 
> > Right.  That is EXACTLY why he wants to alter argv.

At this moment I have no need to alter argv for anything.
I just found it odd python by default limited your control of 
modifing the true argv and listed common reason's why it's a desirable
option to be able to do so.

> But there's always a moment where another user can gather the unaltered
> argv.

Yes, for a millisecond, and that someone must have access to the process
tree, and must be able to run a user process in a race condition
to attempt to grab such info, probably with no idea when execution will
commence, making the servers load average of *10* quite obvious to even
the dumbest admin. 

Generally, this means that user must have unlimited shell access, and
generally only trusted users should be allowed such access to a server
in the first place.

And after all of this high speed parsing roulette, odds are they'll
likely miss grabing the fucking thing anyway...

So, thank you and the others for continuing the offtopic answer
to my question... (Which should have been, "No it's not built in, and no
their's no 3rd party modules to do it.")


While you all were mentally masturbating over the security
consequences of *not limiting a programmer* from modifing argv,
I went and wrote a patch to sys to allow argv modification.
I will be posting it to the list when I get a chance to make a proper
diff and document it.



From michael at rcp.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 11:11:44 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:11:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Stackless Python and Python 2.x
Message-ID: <Xns910BA52745692michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

What's the current status of Stackless Python in relation to the developing 
Python 2.x implementation?

I can see that there's a patched version of Stackless Python for version 
2.0 (http://www.stackless.com/) and there's PEP 219 describing an 
inspiration for this idea.  However, I also see that PEP 219 is marked as 
deferred and that PEP 220 (which covers the details) contains a brief 
abstract only.

Of course, we now have generators (PEP 255) in Python 2.2, which takes us 
part of the way there, but the gap remains big!

So, my question is whether coroutines are likely to make it into Python in 
the forseeable future?


From rob at jam.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 10:03:32 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:03:32 GMT
Subject: Python Books - Which one?
References: <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4@cyberway.com.sg> <wF5j7.34313$hm3.2250338@news1.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <3B8CF5F2.8050505@jam.rr.com>

Graham Ashton wrote:

> In article <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4 at cyberway.com.sg>, "Paul Lim"
> <paullim at cyberway.com.sg> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am a newbie in Python programming. I hope the guru can adivse me.
>>


Here's my advise: Whatever books and tutorials you choose, take good 
advantage of the Python Tutor list 
(http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor). If you have questions 
about the material you encounter, you can ask. And when you see someone 
ask a question you just figured out, you get the joy of being able to 
answer it!


> 
> Are you a newbie to programming too, or just Python? I'd be after advice
> from somebody who has just been through the process that you are about to
> start, rather than a coding guru who won't need the same kind of book as
> you.
> 
> 
>>I would like to acquire a book for my python programming. There are
>>generally three main books in my mind
>>
>>1. Programming Python by O'Reilly
>>2. The Quick Python Book
>>
> 
> What's the third?
> 
> I've not seen the Quick Python Book so can't comment on it. I've got
> Programming Python though (second edition). I think it's a very good book
> but it's not a tutorial by any means. It is packed full of extensive
> examples however, which teach application design as well as Python syntax.
> 
> If you've got prior programming experience and understand the language
> constructs covered in the Python tutorial (http://www.python.org/doc/) and
> Dive Into Python (http://diveintopython.org/) then Programming Python
> wouldn't be a bad choice. It is very thick though and I'm finding that I
> sometimes don't have the patience to read the coverage of each topic
> fully, partly because I'm impatient, partly because the coverage (in
> parts) is a little too waffly for my taste.
> 


I tend to think of Programming Python 2nd ed. as an incredible *second* 
Python book. I'd say it does have a tutorial feel to it, but on the 
intermediate level.


> My favourite book for learning more Python is currently the Python
> Essential Reference which has an approach similar to O'Reilly's nutshell
> series (i.e. concise overview of language followed by library reference).
> It's by no means verbose but that's not usually a problem. Another
> excellent book is Python Standard Library. There is quite a bit of overlap
> between those last two though.
> 
> I hear that Wesley Chun's book is very good (I think it's called Core
> Python Programming). I nearly bought that instead of Programming Python,
> and still wonder whether I should have. I didn't get it because I didn't
> like the layout that much - I know, it shouldn't be so important to me,
> but I didn't find the text quite so accessible (personal quirkiness on my
> part).
> 


Core Python Programming seems like a dandy first Python book. I also add 
to that list Alan Gauld's Learn to Program Using Python. When it is 
released soon, Python How To Program (Prentice Hall) is also going to be 
a fine offering for beginners and introductory classes.


> 
>>Can anyone recommend to me which is better? Or is there any better book
>>out there? I am looking for a book that is reader friendly but contain
>>substantial material that will last me quite some time.
>>


 From what I've seen, any up-to-date Python book you find will have 
enough material to engage for quite some time, especially if used as a 
compliment to the many online tutorials, HOWTOs and discussion forums. 
Quality and volume of content do not seem to be problems for Python 
books right now. And a quick search for "Python" at your favorite 
bookseller's website should reveal a very healthy variety of offerings 
currently available.


> 
> Well, what level of experience do you have?
> 
> So you can gauge my comments a bit, I did Perl for five years before
> trying Python in earnest about 3 or 4 months ago.
> 
> --
> Graham
> 


-- 
Learning to program is fun again.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python



From list.adam at twardoch.com  Tue Aug 21 06:09:06 2001
From: list.adam at twardoch.com (Adam Twardoch)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:09:06 -0700
Subject: [Q/newbie] Converting object names to strings and back?
References: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com> <9lt4c601feq@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <to4d0lmm9rleea@news.supernews.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>
> Of course, it's horribly dangerous to evaluate just any expression
> unless you're *REALLY* sure about where it's coming from -- which
> is part of why it's quite unlikely that this is what you should
> really be doing.

Thank you. Eval was indeed what I was looking for. I did read some FAQs, and
two books but you know -- it's so much stuff that you easily get confused. I
do occasional programming, and each time it's got to be a different
programming language (Java, PHP, VB, JavaScript, Perl, and now Python).
Basic syntax of a language is easy, but it's really hard to keep track on
all the ready built-in functions etc. which usually make out the real power
of a language.

In this very case, the code will be from a trusted source. The project is
not intended for public access, but rather for some internal work. And even
if the code breaks occasionally, it doesn't matter. :)

> the 1.5.2 part,
> which means you're forced to use a release that's years
> old

Yes, but that's the version which is built into the application that I'm
scripting.

Thank you so much!

Adam




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 10 06:17:55 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:17:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: the usage of pickle
In-Reply-To: <egb7nt4ba7iusumbjsd8thqhd0j943c1qf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101414380.27502-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Dino Hsu wrote:
> >>> def f():
> 	return '123456'
> >>> f
> <function f at 01215F2C>
>
> >>> pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')

1st error - you cannot dump a function, only a data object. You can
dump/load code objects with marshall module.

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#60>", line 1, in ?
>     pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
>   File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 939, in dump
>     Pickler(file, bin).dump(object)
>   File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 104, in __init__
>     self.write = file.write
> AttributeError: write

2ns error - you've passed text string as 2nd parameter. pickle.dump expects
open file-like object. Examples:

pickle.dump(f, open('test.txt', 'w'))

   or

s = StringIO.StringIO()
pickle.dump(f, s)
# now use s.getvalu() as string dump. Or just use pickle.dumps(f) :)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From digitig at cix.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 20:42:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Language change and code breaks
References: <mailman.996010366.21957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20010804014245.16469u@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <mailman.996010366.21957.python-list at python.org>, 
jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt) wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Guido van Rossum [mailto:guido at python.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:51 PM
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Re: Language change and code breaks
> [...]
> > The language would remain case-sensitive, and you would be free to use
> > it that way in any tool you chose, but there would be a separate tool
> > available that enforced case-preserving case-sensitivity for those who
> > prefer it.
> [...]
> 
> There you have it folks.  This is the same thing that Guido ended with 
> the
> last time this issue came up.  
> 
> To summarise: The language will not change to be case-insensitive.  
> Python,
> the programming language, will remain case-sensitive.
> 
> Thank you very much, Guido, for stating it.  I'm hoping that we can keep
> this message and quote it as the BDFL proclamation on this issue the 
> next
> time it arises.
> 
> Personally, I'm happy to hear that the language will stay 
> case-sensitive and
> that I can choose to use or ignore a tool that provides 
> case-insensitivity.
> Hopefully a tool that would provide this isn't tied to something I would
> like to use.

Seconded. Actually, I'd be happy of the tool that did this did so 
optionally, so I could still use it with that feature turned off :-)


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 23:45:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:45:11 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBLLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> ...
> Here's something I don't understand: why is it that the default
> value of a function arg is evaluated just once, instead of whenever
> the function is called?

Simply because that seemed most useful most often, and is most consistent
with the rest of the language:  default arguments are a kind of binding
performed at function definition time, and there are no instances of
"delayed assignment" anywhere in the language.  Note that "def" is an
executable statement in Python, not a declaration ("class" is also
executable, btw -- the only declaration in Python is the "global" stmt).

Note that this pattern is common:

import math

def angular(angle=math.pi):
    whatever

del math  # get this out of the module namespace

If the default arg were evaluated every time angular was called, the only
result of calling angular would be a runtime NameError (since "math" is
history by the time angular is called).

> The manual has a warning about that and examples of how to program
> around it, but it seems like poor design to need such a warning.

If it evaluated defaults every time the function got called, the manual
would have to give a warning about *that*, and examples of how to program
around it.

Since neither behavior is wholly compelling, you pick one and point out that
it isn't the other, or you drop the whole idea.

If we were afraid of operations someone might think work in a way other than
they actually do, we'd have to drop, oh, subscripting, addition and input
from Python too <wink>.  The question to me isn't whether a behavior may be
surprising, but whether it's easy to *remember* after you first learn it.
Everyone gets bit by the default argument rule once; few people seem to get
bit by it twice; and I *expect* they'd get bit more often if Guido had
picked the other rule.

adders = []
for i in range(10):
    def an_adder(a, b=i):
        return a+b
    adders.append(an_adder)

all-behaviors-are-exploitable-and-exploited-ly y'rs  - tim




From sandysj at asme.org  Fri Aug 17 10:34:04 2001
From: sandysj at asme.org (Jeff Sandys)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:34:04 GMT
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7D2B5B.AACB14B3@asme.org>

Jesse W wrote:
> Do you have any suggestions on how to deal with learning 
> to use unit testing in this way, or examples of setting 
> up games with this kind of unit testing, or GUI programs?

There is a great example from pyunit.sourceforge.net
	http://diveintopython.org/roman_divein.html

I think that unit tests have there greatest value in refactoring 
and later when the code needs a revision for new functionality.  

Thanks,
Jeff Sandys


From just at letterror.com  Sat Aug 11 10:54:38 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:54:38 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B75472D.42A3B1B4@letterror.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> not exactly good programming though if I later I import run from a in a
> different main script.
> 
> Isn't this a wart?

That sentence certainly is ;-)

Just


From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Aug 28 14:48:10 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:48:10 +0200
Subject: Multithreading support for BaseHTTPServer
References: <3b8b7daf.699296734@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <3B8BE76A.C74B0D27@stroeder.com>

Gerson Kurz wrote:
> 
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):
> [..]
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 262, in handle
>     self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
>   File "d:\python21\lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
>     new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'
> 
> Any ideas? Any simple method of multithreading BaseHTTPServer?

Python 2.1? Grab 2.1.1 which probably contains the fix for that.

Ciao, Michael.


From guido at python.org  Fri Aug 10 23:36:29 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:36:29 GMT
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org> <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com> <slrn9n833f.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <3B742612.BCEFB452@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <cp3d6z46c7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> > Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit
> > time.
> 
> Per unit time. It's straight from the numbers at
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/

But notice that since it's exponential, the curve would have the same
shape if it was a cumulative total. :-)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 22:53:57 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:53:57 GMT
Subject: Follow-up: Win32/Posix file locking
References: <t7uqot8n8gjm03r2m03md8kfsjuauchqhu@4ax.com> <mailman.999131050.12210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3farotcj9dg3fee0mt76ekkforqr71je1n@4ax.com>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:20:44 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.999131050.12210.python-list at python.org>:

:On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

:>     def getReadLock(self):
:>         start_time = time()
:>         while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
:>             try:
:>                 self.f = open(self.filename, 'r')
:>                 self.fd = self.f.fileno()
:>                 fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_SH | fcntl.LOCK_NB)
:>                 return 1
:>             except:
:>                 self.f.close()
:>                 del self.fd
:
:Ouch. I would put a short delay in here so that CPU usage doesn't go through
:the roof by accident.

What sort of time interval would you suggest? 0.1 seconds, perhaps? Or
is that too short?


:> ----------------------(begin winMutexFile.py)----------------------
:>  ...
:> import os
:> from time import time
:>
:> try:
:>     import win32file
:>     from win32con import GENERIC_READ, GENERIC_WRITE,\
:>         FILE_SHARE_READ, OPEN_EXISTING, FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL
:> except ImportError, e:
:>     print e
:>     print "winMutexFile.py requires ActiveState.com Python win32
:> extensions"
:
:Hmm. I'm thinking that you need some sort of a raise here so that it stops.

Yikes! Thanks for catching that. Duh.

:
:Looks good. Just two other things:
:
:1) I'm wondering if assigning None to fd might be faster than deleting it and
:     recreating it.
:2) The error messages use string concatenation when using a format string
:     might be cleaner.
:
:Other than those few things it looks very good.

Thanks for looking it over, and for the suggestions.
One other thing I've decided to change, is to move the file open out of
the loop in getReadLock in the posixMutexFile.py module. Somewhere in
the newsgroup someone posted in an article about a multi-thread
profiler, that file opening is expensive. So, I changed the way I
handled that a bit.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  2 12:30:13 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 18:30:13 +0200
Subject: is there a JDOM like library?
References: <tmgvd9gdmbm26e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <j4snfaa0h6.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"David" <david.perkinson at adtran.com> writes:

> Is there a DOM/XML GPL'd library for Python that is as easy to use as JDOM?
> Element root = doc.getRootElement();
> Element child = root.getChild("foo");
> String text = child.getText();

>>> from xml.dom.minidom import parseString
>>> doc = parseString("<foo>Hallo</foo>")
>>> root = doc.documentElement
>>> root.childNodes[0].nodeValue
u'Hallo'

Regards,
Martin


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Tue Aug  7 18:18:59 2001
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:18:59 +0100
Subject: questions.part #2
References: <9kpj1s$pp1$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <3B70691A.9D93282B@accessforall.nl>

Dear reader,

whats_really_hot wrote:
> 
> This is the second post of mine. First, I would like to thank all u that
> responded to first post. Here I repeat some of the questions of my first
> post, because they were not properly answered or cause I didn't get straight
> answers.
>  In the first post u answered me that in Unix based platforms "cat" command
> starts the creation of a module. OK, now I go on with some more queries.
> 
On Unix I'd prefer to use vi over cat. Others use other editors like emacs,
or the editor in the Python development environment. But this subject is
off topic here.

> 1. When we type "dir()" in the interactive command line prompt get among all
> the others the module "__name__" which really tell us the name of the module
> that we are . But now we are in the interactive command line prompt, which
> is a module with the name "__main__". Now, my question is, why isn't
> __name__ = __main__? (Why isn't __name__ substituted by __main__?
>

This is simply a difference between interactive interpreter and the
'main python program' interpreter. The difference is not specified
by the language, it is just that these environments are not completely
the same: any python interpretation may start with some variables predefined.

> Sorry for repeating this question but I didn't really get a clear answer.
> 
Even the docs are bit terse about this.

> 2. What is the difference between "!=" and "<>" (which really mean
> "different")?
> 
I think only their origins are different: != comes from C, <> comes
from Pascal (who remembers Jensen and Wirth nowadays?).
In python they are equivalent, but it is possible that one of them 
is more favoured.

> 3. Are the built-in tools (such as "len", "sort" etc) maintained in a folder
> into the Python directory, so as I can access and edit them?
> 
They are implemented as functions in the implementation language,
currently C or Java. You can access them by extracting the sources
during python installation. In case you need the precise names of the 
equivalent functions, just ask here.

> 4.   What is the difference between "%d" and "%i" (which really point
> integer values)?
> 
Pass, my C usage is too far in the past. See the docs on the % operator.

> 5. What does it mean that Python is a "high-level language" and other
> languages, such as C, are low-level?
> 
In python you don't need to declare variables and a variable can be set to 
a reference to a value of any type.
When the parser does not detect syntax error in Python, everything is executed
until an uncaught exception occurs. Execution of a declaration or import has the
effect of adding name(s) to the namespace used by the interpreter.
Other statements change the references/values of the names in the applicable
namespace.

> Sorry for the simplicity of some of the above questions, but are crucial for
> me for the full understanding of Python.
> 
> Thanks again for ur attention and immediate responds.

My pleasure.

> 
> Mail me: whats_really_hot at hotmail.com
By request. Please see the newsgroup for more answers.

Good luck,
Ype

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From joonas at olen.to  Fri Aug 31 07:38:52 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:38:52 +0300
Subject: Integrating HTTPServer and GUI
Message-ID: <3B8F774C.C2E900F2@olen.to>

I have made a httpserver that prints all its logs into Tkinter Text
window.
The only problem is that when the GUI reads data from the server
with os.read, the GUI is blocked.
Any suggestions how to solve this?
Is there any other ways to implement realtime communication between
threads than
os.pipe and using globals.

- Joonas

#!/usr/bin/python

import threading, time, sys, BaseHTTPServer, os
from Tkinter import *

PORT = 80

log_lines = 20

requests = 0


pipein, pipeout = os.pipe()


class HTTPWrapper(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
    def do_GET(self):
        global requests
        requests += 1
        self.send_response(200)
        self.send_header("Content-type","text/html")
        self.end_headers()
        self.wfile.write("it works!")
    def log_message(self, format, *args):
        os.write(pipeout, "%s - - [%s] %s\n" %
                     (self.address_string(),
                      self.log_date_time_string(),
                      format%args))


class SimpleWidget(Frame):
    def add_line(self, line):
        if self.number_of_lines >= log_lines:
            self.text.delete("1.0", "2.0")
        self.text.insert(END, line+"\n")
        self.number_of_lines += 1
        self.infolabel.set(str(requests)+" requests since startup")
    def get_server_info(self):
        self.update()
        self.new_char = os.read(pipein, 1) #this blocks the GUI
        if self.new_char == "\n":
            self.add_line(self.linebuffer)
            self.linebuffer = ""
        else:
            self.linebuffer += self.new_char
        self.get_server_info()
    def __init__(self):
        self.number_of_lines = 0
        self.linebuffer = ""
        Frame.__init__(self)
        self.pack()
        self.infolabel = StringVar()
        Label(self, textvariable=self.infolabel).pack(side=TOP)
        self.infolabel.set("foo")
        Button(self,text="Shut down server", command=self.quit).pack()
        self.text = Text(self)
        self.text.pack()
        self.get_server_info()


httpd = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(("", PORT), HTTPWrapper)
threading.Thread( target=httpd.serve_forever ).start()

SimpleWidget().mainloop()


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 04:12:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:12:47 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9ldauj01j69@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xd75xlv86.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> I just started playing with python and haven't been able to figure
> out the following things from the docs I've found:
>
> 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> real and imaginary parts separately?  I guess I could say
>    x = (a + a.conjugate())/2
>    y = (a - a.conjugate())/2
> but I can't take this language seriously if that's what the designers
intended.

The a.real and a.imag read-only attributes of a are what you're looking for.


> 2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
>    I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
>      is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>      is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>      is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>      is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type

There are several approaches you can take for this.  type(x) returns
the type object for x, and you could compare that for equality with
type(1) or type(1L), but this is probably the worst approach.  The
builtin function isinstance(x,type(1)) currently has the same results
as the typetest type(x)==type(1) but should work better in the
future when it becomes possible to inherit from all builtin types.

With the current behavior of division,

def isinteger(x):
    return 0==x/(x+x)

would work, as integer division truncates, but that's slated to
change so I wouldn't rely on this.  (This would raise an exception
if x==0, too, so that would have to be tested separately).

See also the newly revised PEP on long/integer unification:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0237.html
eventually, isinstance(i, integer) should do exactly what you
ask for, but I get the impression it won't be in 2.2 yet.


> 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
>    branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
>    implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
>    Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.

Fully specified at
http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/lib/module-cmath.html
for example:
acos(x)
Return the arc cosine of x. There are two branch cuts: One extends right
from 1 along the real axis to ?, continuous from below. The other extends
left from -1 along the real axis to -?, continuous from above.

and so on.


Alex





From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Mon Aug  6 20:02:47 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:02:47 GMT
Subject: win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a pythom COM serve r
References: <mailman.997118169.6657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6F3096.8020201@ActiveState.com>

LArbilla at pav.com wrote:
> I'm seriously stuck (2 days now) at my first attempt to use win32com to
> write a com server in python.
> I've search and read all I could find and I still don't see how to solve the
> problem:

...

> 		and it didn't make a difference
> 	- I also tried commenting out the line "_reg_class_spec", which
> has the only reference to "raecom" and it didn't make a difference

Try re-registering the class without this _reg_class_spec_ attribute - 
it should them work correctly.

Also, look for posts of mine on this newsgroup detailing how to debug 
PythonCOM servers - you should then be able to see all tracebacks 
generated by the PythonCOM framework.

Mark.



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Wed Aug  1 09:32:52 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:32:52 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:45:14 +1200, Greg Ewing
<greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:

>"David C. Ullrich" wrote:
>> 
>> But why should the real and imag of a complex be required to be
>> floats in the first place? Why  shouldn't they be allowed to be
>> floats or rationals or integers?
>
>A complex number, in the mathematical sense, is 
>not a pair of other numbers -- that's just one 
>way of *representing* a complex number.

Well thanks for clarifying _that_. Duh.

(Not that it makes any difference here, but
since you undertstand the math so much better
than I do: Exactly what definition of
"complex number" do you have in mind here?
The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
real numbers".)

>If you have some application for which you
>need pairs of numbers that are restricted to
>being integers or whatever, they're not really
>complex numbers, and so you can't blame Python's
>complex type for not helping you.

What a silly point of view. Suppose that the only
"real" numbers in Python were floats, no integers.
Someone says that exact integers would be nice.
You point out that an integer is not really a real
number (which is true in some sense) and therefore
we can't expect Python "real numbers" to include
ints as well as floats.

I mean I've said _many_ times that this was not
an actual request. But the fact that an 
integer-complex is in some sense not
"really" a complex number seems exactly as
pertinent to the question of how Python should
work as the fact that an integer is in some
sense not a real number.

>-- 
>Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
>Christchurch, New Zealand
>To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
>http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


David C. Ullrich


From borcis at geneva-link.ch  Wed Aug 22 09:37:13 2001
From: borcis at geneva-link.ch (Borcis)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:37:13 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.998008468.11414.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B83B589.2AC3C421@geneva-link.ch>

Tim Peters wrote:

> It's all the same to *you* in the end anyway, because I'll die much sooner
> than Guido

> all's-for-the-best-in-this-best-of-all-possible-worlds-ly y'rs  - tim

Pick answers to :

(a) Yes, but isn't it a classical (e.g. pre-quantum) fallacy, to have world
    possibility not concieved as a matter of viewpoint ?

(b) You mean you expect Guido to finish his life as immortal software ?

(c) If by hypothesis you were to decide to mean (b), do you think this should
    suffice to make (a) otherwise irrelevant in context, from logical grounds ?

(d) what bounds can you prove, to the cardinality of the class
    of expected states of ultimate fact equivalent to that state of ultimate
    fact hoped-for in (b), for the purpose of maintaining invariance of your
    answer to (c) ?

(e) what should happen if we exchange "expected ultimate statement of fact"
     for "expected state of ultimate fact" in (d), together with a coordinated
     transform of "that state of ultimate fact hoped-for in (b)" to "the
     statement of hope in (b)"  ?

aesthetical-sense-is-to-soul-as-eye-is-to-physical-viewpoint-ly yours,

Boris Borcic


From iddwb at imap1.asu.edu  Wed Aug  1 16:36:25 2001
From: iddwb at imap1.asu.edu (David Bear)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:36:25 -0700
Subject: mod-python or pypython
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0108011335040.25694-100000@research2.asu.edu>

was wanting to enhance apache with faster cgi.  I intent to exclusively use
python for scripting.  I was wondering which would be a better way to go,
using mod-python or pypython.. any one have recommendations?

David Bear
Support Systems Analyst, ASU
internet:     David.Bear at Asu.Edu
voice:        (602)-965-8257
fax:          (602)-965-9189



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Aug  4 19:20:13 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:20:13 -0400
Subject: XOR two bytes?
References: <3B6C5985.EA285A07@pacbell.net> <memo.20010805001357.60291M@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <To%a7.13450$si.222195@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

[posted & mailed]

"Tim Rowe" <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.20010805001357.60291M at digitig.compulink.co.uk...
> In article <3B6C5985.EA285A07 at pacbell.net>, sntial at pacbell.net (Jeanne)
> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if there is a function to quickly Xor two bytes
> > together?
> > I have been searching in the docs, but havent' been able to find it.
> > Please cc: my cris_paltenghe at yahoo.com address as I don't hang out in
> > this newsgroup often.  Thanks for your help! Cris
>
> Do you mean '^'?

If the bytes are single-character strings then the ord() and chr() builtin
functions complete the picture.

>>> def xorchars(c1, c2):
...  return chr(ord(c1) ^ ord(c2))
...
>>> xorchars("A", "a")
' '
>>> xorchars("A", "c")
'"'
>>>

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Aug 20 15:26:22 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 22:26:22 +0300
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list at python.org>, "Tim
Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

| The Python profiler is written in Python, and uses Python's
| time.clock()

mouldn't it be better to use something with a little more
resolution on non-win32 platforms, like gettimeofday() ?

  -- erno



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 14:44:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:44:57 +0200
Subject: Novice Question on HTTP Session Persistence
References: <mailman.998069439.9056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ljon012h1e@enews2.newsguy.com>

"chief crazy bLanKeT" <ccb at pan-tr.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998069439.9056.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> Is there a document on how to persist objects (like username and login
> information for ex.) into the HTTP session ?

See module Cookie in the standard Python library (2.1 and later,
I believe).


Alex





From nospam at nospam.com  Sat Aug 18 16:32:08 2001
From: nospam at nospam.com (Grace)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 05:32:08 +0900
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com> <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <tlfqnt84r54idgtstjanugkvhn86tp1qlq@4ax.com> <3B7D6351.2B6B2031@ccvcorp.com><5hsqnt08u6n3cu7921c66cokcr6mkv79pn@4ax.com> <B7A3F696.16481%goodger@users.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <NbAf7.92704$eJ6.8231737@news.hananet.net>

"David Goodger" <goodger at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:B7A3F696.16481%goodger at users.sourceforge.net...
> Paul Moore <gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk> wrote on 2001-08-18 08:19:
> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:32:49 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com>
wrote:
> >> Well, the alternative argument could be that, if you don't need to
setup and
> >> teardown in between various tests, then they could be coded as
subtests of a
> >> single, larger test...  OTOH, if you *do* have high setup/teardown
overhead,
> >> which *does* require being redone for each test, then coding it each
time
> >> would be a pain.  Lumping subtests together is easier than multiple
copies of
> >> setup/teardown...
> >
> > I'm not sure I agree. The long and short of it is that both cases can
happen.
> > But look at my example "for real" (sort of)
> >
> > class testSimpleQueries(unittest.TestCase):
> >     def setUp(self):
> >         # May take seconds to execute...
> >         self.connection = DB.Connect(connect_str)
> >     def tearDown(self):
> >         self.connection.Disconnect()
> >     def exec_query(self, q):
> >         "Trivial helper to run a query"
> >         return self.connection.Execute(q)
> >     def testQ1(self):
> >         "Simple query"
> >         q = "select 1 from dual"
> >         assertEqual(1, self.exec_query(q))
> >     def testQ2(self):
> >         "Exception when no rows returned"
> >         q = "select 1 from dual where 1=0"
> >         assertRaises(DB.Error, self.exec_query(q))
> >     # And 100 more trivial queries...
> >
> > You get the idea. The setup costs a *lot* in relative terms of time
(each test
> > query takes, say, 0.01 second). You really want to only do that once.
But you
> > don't really want to code a single huge test - it destroys the
reporting of
> > the individual test docstrings by unittest.main(). What do you do?
>
> The setUp/tearDown mechanism can ensure that each test is independent of
any
> state left over from any other test. If you know your tests won't leave
any
> state behind, you could put your DB.connect() call in
> testSimpleQueries.__init__. (Don't forget to call
unittest.TestCase.__init__
> though.) Again, this assumes that none of the individual tests will
change
> the state of the connection. To close the connection, you could put the
> self.connection.Disconnect() call in testSimpleQueries.__del__; but
there's
> no guarantee when (or even if?) this will be called.

No, it won't work.

The __init__ is called for each test method for the class that inherits
TestCase -- PyUnit creates as much instaces of TestCase class as the number
of test methods, in this case those starting with "test-".

One of the golden rules of unit testing is "make it fast." Most of the
time, it shouldn't take more than a few mins at one run -- C3 had over 1300
unit tests, performing over 13,000 individual checks altogether, which ran
in about 10 minutes in visual works. The fastness of running unit tests is
necessary for TestDrivenDesign and MercilessRefactoring.

To make it fast, you should do high-cost things such as db connection,
insert/delete, as infrequent as possible. Yet you want to test as much as
possible.

One alternative to using live dbs is using small test dbs, but after all it
can lead to a real mess if a multiple of developers and test cases trying
to do the db test. (you could in-line the db in the test code instead)

Another one is using shunt pattern.

When I look at your code, it seems like it's testing DB itself rather than
the python code. PyUnit is not intended for testing DB engines per se.

"Some tests make sure that the lowest layer of database access works as
planned. Then I write a suite based on the assumptions demonstrated by the
first suite. It assumes that I can get things into and out of the real
database, so I don't have to have the real database there. That way I can
create an in-memory impostor for the database and exercise the higher level
objects." [PPR]

Putting lots of SQL statements at a higher layer would, as one of many
disadvantages, reduce code testability enormously. (refer to
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?BadFormedPersistenceLayer)




From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Mon Aug 13 08:50:12 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:50:12 +0100
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org> <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com> <9l7k5i$5eh$1@panix2.panix.com> <9l7tt9012o@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9l8ie6$nu2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:9l7tt9012o at enews2.newsguy.com...

> Simpler, yes.  Not necessarily faster, and I was surprised when I
> actually measured iteration on .keys vs iteration on .items: the
> allocation/building of the N pairs may apparently take longer
> than the N [] indexing operations.  Measure the two alternatives
> if you do need top speed at this point...

On a quick test with a large dictionary, items() was slowest. Using
iterators to avoid building the large list, iteritems() was fastest.




From orib at writeme.com  Wed Aug 15 19:21:38 2001
From: orib at writeme.com (Ori Berger)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 02:21:38 +0300
Subject: string hash, and an email to stimpy.
Message-ID: <3B7B0402.38DA26A6@writeme.com>

Disclaimer: It's been over 2 years since I was last regularly reading
c.l.p (drop "regularly" for all practical purposes); I've gone through
the last 200 posts or so, and so no mention of what I'm about to post,
but it _may_ be old news. (I didn't see any mention of Guido's time 
machine either, nor Moshe's "which fun to me, I'm not signing 
permanent" signature. At least Tim's <wink>-ly yours style is still
here).

And to the point:

I was browsing 2.2a1 CVS repository through source forge's web 
interface. I looked at exactly two files, and found exactly two
puzzling things:

--------------
File: [Development] / python / python / dist / src / Objects /
stringobject.c (download) (as text) 
 Revision 2.122 , Thu Aug 2 04:15:00 2001 UTC (13 days, 18 hours ago) by
tim_one 
 Branch: MAIN 
 CVS Tags: after-descr-branch-merge, HEAD 
 Changes since 2.121: +50 -26 lines 

 Merge of descr-branch back into trunk.
---
(somewhere down below, inside string_hash)
        len = a->ob_size;
        p = (unsigned char *) a->ob_sval;
        x = *p << 7;
        while (--len >= 0)
                x = (1000003*x) ^ *p++;
        x ^= a->ob_size;
---

Do you really mean that hash function? Do you trust compilers to 
optimize that multiplication well enough? Won't a hashpjw-style 
hash be faster to compute? Will the direction of entropy reverse?

The following CVS entry is the only reference I could find (and it 
took me quite some time to find, since I searched for "hash" rather
than "hach" ....) is:
---
Revision 2.31 / (download) / (as text) - annotate - [select for diffs] ,
Wed Sep 11 20:22:48 1996 UTC (4 years, 11 months ago) by guido 
Branch: MAIN 
Changes since 2.30: +1 -1 lines 
Diff to previous 2.30 
---
Multiply by 1000003 instead of 3 in string hach
---

I'm quite sure it gives a more uniform distribution, but 1000003
has 6 or 7 bits set, which means it will probably compile to a 
real multiplication on most architectures.


Second thing:

---File: [Development] / python / python / dist / src / Lib / smtpd.py
(download) (as text) 
 Revision 1.7 , Mon Aug 13 21:18:01 2001 UTC (2 days, 2 hours ago) by
bwarsaw 
 Branch: MAIN 
 CVS Tags: HEAD 
 Changes since 1.6: +2 -1 lines 

 found_terminator(): Add a debug print showing the data.
---
(somewhere down below, inside smtp_RCPT...)
...
        if address.lower().startswith('stimpy'):
            self.push('503 You suck %s' % address)
            return
...
---

Who's the aforementioned stimpy figure? (No, I don't watch TV if it's
related - you'll have to give me all the details).

OriB.

(please cc:me on your reply - I suspect my news server is not that
good).


From ylee12 at uiuc.edu  Fri Aug 17 18:44:42 2001
From: ylee12 at uiuc.edu (Young-Jin Lee)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:44:42 -0700
Subject: [Q] Python and Path 
Message-ID: <Slff7.6824$A3.50199@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi, I have a question on Python and path.
How can I tell Python to search a python source file in a specify directory?
I created a python test code in my working directory and I lauchched the
Python interpreter from the desktop shortcut. I need to be able to specify
the path (similar to Java's classpath), but I don't know how.
Thanks in advance.

YL




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Tue Aug 21 04:04:09 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:04:09 +0100
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFEA@intrepid>

> From:	Dev Null [SMTP:dev__nu11 at hotmail.com]
> Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?
 
No need to shout!

If you haven't programmed before, check out Alan Gauld's 'Learning to
Program' at <http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/>, or 'How to think like a
Computer Scientist', at
<http://www.andamooka.org/reader.pl?section=thinkpython>. These are aimed at
teaching programming using Python to complete beginners.

If you have programmed before, try 'Dive into Python at
<http://diveintopython.org/> or the Python Tutorial at
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>.

Links to *loads* of tutorials can be found at
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Docu
mentation_and_Tutorials/>.

And don't forget the Python tutor mailing list, at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>. Well worth joining if you
are learning Python!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Sun Aug 26 13:51:54 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:51:54 GMT
Subject: Whats wrong with this code?
References: <3B88403B.9BF2CADE@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <_Gai7.356549$EF2.45476331@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Adonis Vargas <deltapigz at telocity.com> menulis:
| it will connect; and send the data; but i am not receiving anything? it
| did work prior to me tinkering with it; but it is now back to how it
| was; and no cigar?
| 
| [snip]
| pirc.send('NICK %s\r'%pirc_nick)
| pirc.send('USER %s %s %s :%s\r'%(pirc_user, socket.gethostname(),
| pirc_serv, pirc_name))

You're connecting to an IRC server, right?  I think the lines need to be
terminated with \r\n, not just \r.  Try changing the above two lines to:

pirc.send('NICK %s\r\n' % pirc_nick)
pirc.send('USER %s %s %s :%s\r\n' % (pirc_user, socket.gethostname(),
pirc_serv, pirc_name))


-- 
Cliff Crawford    ::    http://www.sowrong.org/
"Sheila can keep the balloons away."  -- Thomas


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Wed Aug  1 01:30:21 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:30:21 -0700
Subject: Generator Comprehensions? was Re: a break for comprehensions
References: <3B66FFEC.5335E1C8@destiny.com> <3B670BB3.48D4A5A5@ActiveState.com>              <010f01c11a13$3a930920$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>  <200108010326.XAA18273@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c11a4b$1ab01020$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

From: "Guido van Rossum" <guido at zope.com>
> > > How about if we combine your ideas:
> > >
> > > y = [yield x*2 for x in g()]
> >
> > Geeze, that's like, way obvious.  Why didn't I say that in the first
place?
> > Good stuff is always way obvious.  Nice one Paul :-)
> >
> > What do you think Guido?  => CVS?
>
> I don't think so.  Generators are most useful when they do more than
> iterate over a pre-existing sequence, so I doubt that this would be a
> common pattern.  Also I'm not sure I like overloading of the [...]
> brackets, which (to me) very strongly say "real concrete list here".
>
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

I'm assuming that this would be used mostly when g() is a generator,
but the sequence being iterated could be any lazy or non-lazy sequence.
In practice, this puts a filter on an existing lazy sequence.  Unfortunately
the filter is limited to a one-to-one mapping of the input sequence, but
that's true of list comprehensions too isn't it?

I think the yield keyword clearly (to me) disambiguates the expression.

Well, come to think of it, I can't think of a really good use for generator
comprehensions anyway, but you have to admit the idea is cute.  :-)

- Ken Seehof http://www.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof






From gregj at pdxperts.com  Fri Aug 10 07:16:19 2001
From: gregj at pdxperts.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:16:19 GMT
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <7oPc7.30$vW2.21083@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>

"Harald Kirsch" <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:

>>>
When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like

  for(i=0; i<lastI; i++) {
    justDoIt(i);
    if( someTest(i) ) break;
  }
  /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
  for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
    doSomethingElse(i);
  }
<<<

That just doesn't look good to me. It's a usage not found in K&R--the
original source of all C idioms--or in any other C book I've read. I think
most C programmers think of for loop counters as local to the loop, even
though they aren't. C++ has this nice enhancement:

    for (int i=0; i < lastI; i++) { ... }

In that case i is local to the loop body.

I can see your idiom running into trouble if someone updated your code with
C++ enhancements, or if they inserted code between the two loops.

Following Guido's excellent "explicit rather than implicit" rule I'd opt for
something like this instead:

    for (i=0; i<lastI; i++) {
        int failedtest = 0;

        if !failedtest {
            justDoIt(i);
            failedtest = someTest(i);
        }
        else
            doSomethingElse(i);
    }


That said, I think Alex Martelli's example is a clear translation into
Python.

Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts LLC
Portland, Oregon, USA





From sill at optonline.net  Tue Aug  7 22:30:00 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 02:30:00 GMT
Subject: Manually printing traceback?
Message-ID: <slrn9n18po.19r.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

Hello,

If I run this code: l = []; print l[1], I get a traceback.
If I change it to:

import sys
l = []
try: print l[1]
except:
    print sys.exc_info()

I get a tuple, 3rd element of which is the traceback object. How do i print
it? I tried doing print sys.exc_info()[2]() but that doesn't work. I also
read libref and langref and i couldn't find anything enlightening on this.
I found a post where paul prescott asks a similar question and gvr tells him
that you basically have to read code for some debugger, or something of this
sort.. that's over my head, i'm afraid.

The reason i ask is that my program (cymbaline) doesn't print out exceptions
that it raises. I have no idea why.. I don't have any big chunks in try:
except: catch-all blocks.. So, alternatively, if i knew what else could be
causing this, i wouldn't need the answer the my first question. I just need
the answer to either one :P

Thanks,

 - Andrei



-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 01:04:31 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:04:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Usage of wave module
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310102000.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

Does anyone have any sample code that uses a wave.Wave_read object to play
.wav files under Linux and/or Win32? It would be much appreciated.

TIA
-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From sntial at pacbell.net  Sat Aug  4 16:18:37 2001
From: sntial at pacbell.net (Jeanne)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:18:37 GMT
Subject: XOR two bytes?
Message-ID: <3B6C5985.EA285A07@pacbell.net>

Does anyone know if there is a function to quickly Xor two bytes
together?
I have been searching in the docs, but havent' been able to find it.
Please cc: my cris_paltenghe at yahoo.com address as I don't hang out in
this newsgroup often.  Thanks for your help! Cris



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug  5 12:36:38 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:36:38 -0500
Subject: Syntax Errors on make install
In-Reply-To: <slrn9mq81g.of.midnight@www.wkl.lan>
References: <slrn9mq81g.of.midnight@www.wkl.lan>
Message-ID: <15213.30230.168434.717296@beluga.mojam.com>

    midnight> I downloaded the version 2.1.1 tarball.  Configure, make and
    midnight> test seemed to run smoothly, but make install gave some syntax
    midnight> errors which scrolled off the screen before I could read them
    midnight> properly.  The interpreter works fine, as far as I can tell.
    midnight> Should I be concerned about those syntax errors?  My system is
    midnight> Debian woody, kernel 2.2.18, libc6 2.1.3-18, gcc 2.95.2-13.

No, they are test cases that are supposed to contain SyntaxErrors.  When
Python is installed, the Lib/test directory is also installed.

    midnight> Incidentally, something on my system unzipped the tarball
    midnight> without my knowledge, but left the filename unchanged
    midnight> (Python-2.1.1.tgz).  I downloaded the tarball in Mozilla
    midnight> (M18-3) using HTTP, so I suppose Mozilla is the obvious
    midnight> suspect.  Any ideas?

Mozilla.  Netscape has had this problem at one time or another as well.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From lkvam at venix.com  Thu Aug 30 11:44:38 2001
From: lkvam at venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:44:38 -0400
Subject: Is Python powerful enough for this?
References: <3B8E4794.9988.1181E6F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B8E5F66.8C785DB1@venix.com>

Python is a terrific CGI scripting language.  Make sure your web server is properly configured for running Python.  A good starting point for how to do Python CGI scripts is:
http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/sd99east/

A wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input
> fields and also some hidden fields.
> How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
> like
> Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3
> 
> For example:
> I have a following web page
> <html>
> 
> <head>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form method="POST" action="c.cgi">
>   <p><input type="text" name="T1" size="20"></p>
>   <p><input type="checkbox" name="C1" value="ON"></p>
>   <p><textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="20"></textarea></p>
>   <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" name="B1"><input
> type="reset" value="Reset" name="B2"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> >From the above
> I would like to receive
> T1=&S1=&C1=&B1=Submit
> 
> Thank you for help.
> Ladislav
> _______________________________________________
> ActivePython mailing list
> ActivePython at listserv.ActiveState.com
> http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/listinfo/activepython

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp.
1 Court Street, Suite 378
Lebanon, NH 03766-1358

voice:	603-443-6155
fax:	801-459-9582



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 15 04:40:08 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:40:08 GMT
Subject: "Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"
References: <ff0afd33.0108140134.1bb31315@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b7a34dc.3927984@news.t-online.de>

On 14 Aug 2001 02:34:45 -0700, jlcolom at hotmail.com (Josep L. Colom)
wrote:

>Hello,
> 
>Under Windows 2000, I've written a extension module in C++ (Visual C++
>6.0) and I've used the last stable SWIG version (1.3.6, from july
>2001).
>I'm using python 2.1.1.
> 
>Then, when I try to import the DLL (extension module) I get the error:
>    "Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"

Assuming you did call Py_Initialize(), this error can come if you try
to call a python method from a different (NT native) thread. For
example, you have a python method that gets a callback, and you want
to issue it later from a different thread -> you'll have to initialize
the interpreter for that thread first. 

Getting threads to work with the python runtime seems one of the least
documented areas in C/Python :(



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Aug  1 01:30:55 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 08:30:55 +0300
Subject: sleep command/function & searching the python docs
References: <9k6ilm$2sed8$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <kuzo9kibxs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <9k6ilm$2sed8$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>, Rajarshi Guha
<rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> writes:

| Hi,
|   is there a sleep function in the Python library. I've beens earching 
| throught the modules but could'nt seem to find one. BTW, is there any way 
| to search the Python docs for a specific function/module etc? Or is there 
| any resource on the web that provides a searchable interface?

the library reference index is good for finding things.

  -- erno


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:06:14 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:06:14 +0200
Subject: Compiling Python 2.1.1 without 16-bit integer type
References: <mailman.997476498.12050.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4lmkqdi7d.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> Try current CVS.  It so happens I removed the last "exactly 2 bytes wide"
> assumption from the Unicode implementation last night.  It hasn't been
> *tested* on a box without a 2-byte integral type, though.

On top of the current CVS, there is also a pending patch to disable
Unicode types completely. Of course, if you are not using Unicode, you
are probably happy if it compiles at all - then current CVS will
should work for you; just make sure to pass --enable-unicode=ucs4.

Regards,
Martin


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 10:32:06 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:32:06 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be> <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9miud701gsp@enews1.newsguy.com>

"jeroen paul goudsmit" <diedanootdie at danoot.com> wrote in message
news:XO2j7.19$Cz3.314 at pollux.casema.net...
>
> I can read, write, speak , hear, understand english. I'm dutch, so dutch
> still is easier for me. That's why I asked for dutch books.

Funny enough, while Python's inventor and architect is Dutch,
and so are some of the major figures in the Python community,
e.g. Boudewijn Rempt (see http://stage.linuxports.com/pyqt/book1.htm),
I don't know of any Python resource in Dutch -- Bulgarian,
Chinese, Czechoslovakian, Esperanto, French, German, Hungarian,
Italian, Japanese, Korean, Norwegian, Portuguese, Russian,
Spanish and Swedish, yes, but not Dutch.  Maybe that's the
downside of you guys being so good at English -- none of you
has bothered setting up Dutch-language mailing lists, sites,
book translations and so on...?


> so if i got it right, python is easier then vb. Only one  thing is not
easy.

Nope, I would say a tiny bit more than one.  Most have good and bad
aspects, but they can be seen as "not easy".  It IS a handful of
things out of the thousands details of each language, though.

> You can't just put  a control on a form. But there are special thingies in
> python who can.

Yes, depending on the GUI toolkit you choose.  "not easy" thing
number one is that there are so *MANY* Python extensions for such
tools as GUI's and web work that choosing between them is hard!
Of course, this also has good sides -- nice to have choice.

Other "not easy" thing are:

    -- in Python, case is significant: words such as "english"
        (adjective) and "English" (noun) are distinct even though
        they only differ in case (upper/lower).  Visual Basic is
        more forgiving in this.  Good side, well, this is hotly
        debated in the Python community, and some of us are
        convinced that case-sensitivity was a design error (it's
        not gonna change -- backwards compatibility is generally
        maintained in Python!), but most Pythonistas love it (I
        guess they have Unix backgrounds -- so do I but I still
        prefer case-insensitivity!-), so I guess it must have some.

    -- in Python, division TRUNCATES when it's between integers:
        print 1/2
       emits 0, NOT 0.5 as most people expect.  In Visual Basic,
       the result of 1/2 is indeed 0.5.  In Python you have to
       use a . somewhere to indicate a non-integer number, e.g.
       1./2 or 1/2. or 1./2. (or just write 0.5), or explicitly
       ask to float one or both numbers one way or another.
       Another hotly-contentious item in the Python community.

     -- in Visual Basic (non-strict mode) you can just use a
       variable you've never mentioned before and it will just
       spring into life with a default value (it's never very
       clear if that default value is an empty string or the
       number 0, or something different yet, and this often does
       confuse things, of course).  In Python a variable appears
       when it's *assigned* to -- you can't use a variable that
       has never been assigned, Python will detect an error if
       you try to do that.  This DOES in the mid-long term make
       things easier (no wondering about what kind of default
       value has sprung up from nowhere!) but beginners sometimes
       have a slightly hard time coming to terms with the idea
       that any name must have been created before you use it.


> And i've got one more question. What's the limit of python. What can you
not
> make in it. Vb stops somewere, c++ stops later. Weere stops python?

VB (and Python) stop where there's no runtime environment to
support them (C++, like C, is designed to be able to do without
a support environment -- it does need a *compiler* to prepare
the program for execution, but once compiled and prepared the
program can run on the environments it was prepared for, which
may be "such and such machine without any other software AT
ALL", e.g. "embedded" applications).

Say you'd like a little program of yours to run in the browser
of anybody who looks at your site.  VB will stop at any browser
that lacks VB runtime support (Internet Explorer, recent versions,
has it, albeit, reasonably, limited to the VBScript subset;
Netscape and Opera do not; etc, etc).  Python will stop at any
browser that lacks Python runtime support (and, apart from the
old Grail browser that was written entirely in Python, I know
of no browser that *COMES WITH* Python runtime support -- you
could easily ADD such support to Internet Explorer, or Mozilla 6,
since they're highly-modular browsers, but you probably cannot
count on the visitors to your webpage having done so!).

I see other posters have mentioned and are debating "OS modules".
It's again just a question of runtime support -- no more, no
less: if an OS had runtime support for VB, or for Python, you
could use VB, or Python, to write modules for that OS, period.
There's no "conceptual" block -- just that, in practice, I know
of no such OS (for either language).

Apart from the "deployment" issue of "is there runtime support",
both languages are capable of any task whatsoever -- so called
"Turing-complete" (within the hardware limits of the systems
they're using).  One will be much more PRODUCTIVE than the other
for certain tasks, but that's a different issue from "stopping".


Alex





From aahz at panix.com  Thu Aug  9 12:38:33 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 09:38:33 -0700
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <9kuea9$nkv$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8 at demog.berkeley.edu>,
Lloyd Goldwasser  <goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
>others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation.  'Way
>back when I was using Objective-C -- and many other OO languages seem to
>have a similar perspective -- there was a lot of emphasis on the ability
>to keep the contents of objects independent of outside influence except
>via well-delineated mechanisms.  Security and reliability were cited as
>major benefits of this approach: every object knew exactly what the
>outside world was going to see and exactly how the outside world might
>act to change its state.  Python provides only the private variable
>name-mangling mechanism for "encapsulating" the contents of objects, and
>it's weak enough that dir(ClassName) announces all of those "hidden"
>contents to the world, at which point they can be altered at will.  I
>wonder whether this approach, making encapsulation a matter of
>convention rather than something that's provided by the language, is a
>liability.  It would seem to make Python ineligible for use in projects
>that need a more reliable separation between objects and outside
>access.  How hard (or desirable) would it be to provide a stronger kind
>of encapsulation in Python?

Side note: the canonical way in Python of indicating "private" is to use
a single leading underscore.  Use name-mangling only when you must.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 17:49:29 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251530310.2218-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251747040.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:

> Hi python people -
> 	I was trying to find a gfx package for Python, and I tried it.
> I have python aliased to /usr/local/bin/python2.1 and running python on
> their examples said it couldn't find the module gtk.  But after
> unalias-ing it, they worked, and it is cool!  I would rather use
> Python2.1 if I can, but I don't use it's features, so I don't care much.
> But, do other people use PyGTK with 2.1?

Back in November 2000 a very similar question was asked on the PyGTK mailing
list, except it was with Python 2.0. The answer was basically "recompile it
with the newer version of Python". Try that and see if it works.

OTOH, it may be that the PyGTK libraries only exist in your Python 1.5
site-packages directory. Check that, but I suggest the recompile.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From howard at eegsoftware.com  Mon Aug 20 01:11:36 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 05:11:36 GMT
Subject: fun with floppy disks (Windows)
Message-ID: <3B809C02.72CDEB0B@eegsoftware.com>

I am trying to port across some C code to Python which (among many other
things) needs to know when a user puts a floppy into the drive and
closes the door.

The old code used _DISK_VERIFY mode to check for a floppy since (I am
led to believe from comments) it fails without the Abort/Retry junk if
there is no floppy.

Also, I guess I need to poll the status of the floppy.  Since I am using
Tkinter, what is the usual way to poll and still process events (ala
mainloop, etc.)?



From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 12:59:09 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261256470.23937-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> I am intending to use this for programs that will access databases.
> Specifically, CGI scripts using the Berkeley data base hash. The
> Berkeley Sleepy Cat that I have access to doesn't support concurrent
> write access. I have to handle the file locking myself.

I'm just curious as to why you're not using a database server for this. Any
specific reason?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From teo at crepido.com  Thu Aug  2 11:07:04 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:07:04 -0700
Subject: indent in xml
References: <mailman.996723367.12395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108020704.62347488@posting.google.com>

try this one:



doc.parse(s) # s is the xmlfile...

thedoc = doc.documentElement

books = thedoc.getElementsByTagName("book") # returns a list of all
childs  #                                             with tagName ==
'Book' :)

for book in books:

  title_list = book.getElementsByTagName("title")

  print title_list[0].firstChild.data.strip()

  print book.firstChild.firstChild.data.strip()  



I think this is what you want to do.:) 



/teodor







"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.996723367.12395.python-list at python.org>...



> I want to get the first child node of one node,but because of the indent 



> problem(I think so),the first two child is not what i want ,but the '\n' 



> and '',the xml file is:



> <books>



>   book>



>   <title>Pierre: The Ambiguities</title> 



>   <author>Herman Melville</author> 



>   <price>9.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>    <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>12.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>   <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>15.99</price> 



>   </book>



> </books>



> 



> and my py file is



> 



> >>> from xml.dom.minidom import parse, parseString



> >>> s="d:\\i.xml"



> >>> doc=parse(s)



> >>> doc.childNodeTypes



>  (1, 7, 8, 10)



> >>> doc.nodeName



>  '#document'



> >>> doc.childNodes



>  [<DOM Element: books at 11502084>]



> >>> book=doc.firstChild



> >>> book.childNodes



> [<DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11610468>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11525428>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM
Element: book at 11622660>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node " 
">, <DOM Element: book at 11630100>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text
node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11637540>, <DOM Text node "\n">,
<DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11644948>, <DOM Text node
"\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11652356>, <DOM
Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11659756>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11667156>, <DOM Text node "\n">]



> ###############   how can I delete the <DOM Text node "\n"> and <DOM Text node "  ">



> ##      and what is the meaning of (1, 7, 8, 10)(the reslut of doc.childNodeTypes)



> 



> 



> __________________________________________



> 



> DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm



> ??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm


From dmercer at zembu.com  Tue Aug 14 17:50:38 2001
From: dmercer at zembu.com (Dan Mercer)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:50:38 -0700
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
Message-ID: <20010814145038.A6540@mailhub.z.zembu.com>

Greetings,

Over the past year, my coworkers and I have developed a systems management 
suite that is similar in many respects to what has been discussed in this 
thread, and I've found the discourse here to be quite valuable and interesting.
We originally developed our tools to support the deployment of Zembu's 
distributed application infrastructure, but recently the decision has been
made to productize this software, making it available to the public.

Our Infrastructure Manager is composed of a number of components, including
a serial terminal server and physical power control (when the appropriate
hardware is available), a densely-meshed VPN based on the KAME projects
IPSec implementation using a Kerberos KDC for key management, and other
features, but the functionality that most applies to this discussion is a 
configuration management system written in Python.

The core of our system uses a simple XML-based declaration language to 
describe the properties of and relationships between components that comprise 
the managed infrastructure. W3 XSL documents are applied to this data to
generate a variety of configuration files and specialized scripts that
determine how the manager configures it's managed hosts. This mechanism is
used to setup the management system to bootstrap new Solaris and Linux systems 
in an automated manner, and to generate the appropriate configuration files
and package/patch adds needed to make the new system match a described
profile. The idea is to provide a configuration revision control system
that allows admins to rapidly duplicate a profile onto dozens of hosts.

A portable, lightweight management library is installed on each managed
host that allows communication with the manager via SSL encrypted XmlRpc.
The management library can be 'taught' new methods as packages are installed
for instance, the install of an apache package would add methods for
starting, stopping and getting the status of the apache server. This code
is also written in Python, which is really wonderful for cross-platform
systems work.

Currently, a UNIX style command line interface is available, along with a
specialized 'shell' environment that restricts access of users to specific
subsets of the IM's functionality. Currently a web based user interface is
also under development, which will allow for the same functionality
available on the commandline, including the editing/adding/removing of
components to be configured without editing a single line of XML. 

Since our marketing department is just now beginning to put together the
positioning for this software, it'd be very useful to us to hear your opinions
on what functionality you think would be useful, or what systems you think we
should support most quickly. If you are interested in trying out some of
this software pre-release, and could answer some questions about your own
infrastructure, it would be of great benefit to us. We'd like to provide a
user-extensible, 'no snake oil' management solution that solves the 
problems of sysadmins and doesn't require a complete overhaul of your 
environment and thousands of dollars to implement. If you'd like to provide
input please respond to this message, or send mail to karin at zembu.com.

We will be releasing initial support for Solaris 7/8 and Redhat 6.2. 
We've really only tested sun4u systems, but I expect old sun4m/c stuff
should work as well. For intel systems the only requirement for managed
hosts is Intel (PXE) compliant network interfaces. The release date is 
currently 10/1/2001.

Dan Mercer
Systems Engineering - Zembu Labs
http://www.zembu.com/



From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug  3 02:12:08 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:12:08 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108031004440.14000-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Hello!

More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
blanks in ( ).

Recent example (from Steven's post):

'''
def Files( start ):
        for file in listdir( start ):
                file = path.join( start, file )
                if path.isfile( file ): yield file
                elif path.isdir(file):
                        for more in Files( file ):
                                yield more
'''

Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
with the same ugly padding...

And what about:

'''
class E :
    pass
'''

It is not right style too...

Any ideas?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 03, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "MACINTOSH - Most Apps Crash, If Not, Then Operating System Hangs" _/





From watchtheclosingdoors at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 22 16:58:34 2001
From: watchtheclosingdoors at yahoo.com (atonal)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:58:34 -0700
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com>

i have beginning-to-intermediate level vb6/vba programming skills and
would like to find employment before long in a technical capacity.

something tells me that vb is not my ticket, and i am intrigued by
python.

for now i am somewhat wedded to ms windows and ms office, but i gather
that python can be used in many ways in place of vba, and that in
general it would offer more career opportunities.

anyone agree or disagree?  advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 21 16:30:17 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:30:17 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation????
References: <mailman.998412271.8345.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <to5h9496qtf8ff@corp.supernews.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.998412271.8345.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Maan M. Hamze wrote:
>
> >Question:  How do you provide this argument?
> >Test_Form=cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values)??  This is not working.
>
> OK. Trying this:
>
> >>> import os
> >>> os.environ['QUERY_STRING']="aaa=1&b=&c=12"
> >>> Test_Form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> >>> Test_Form.keys()
> ['aaa', 'c']
> >>> Test_Form = cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1)

Ok.  I see.  I tried the example.  Thanks for this information.  I see how
this works now.

> >>> Test_Form.keys()
> ['aaa', 'b', 'c']
>
> I can't see any inconsitencies...
> nb. the way keep_blank_values are given (it's a named argument).
>
> >Ok!  I am not going to provide this argument.  So, the Text Input element
> >that I left empty and had not provided a vlaue for should NOT make it
into
> >FieldStorage() if user does not type some characters in it.  Right?  I
tried
> >it.  It does not make it.
> >Even if I provide a value of " " (is " " an empty string??)
> >
> >2.  BUT, read on:
> >check http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/sd99east/sld041.htm  Slide #
40
> ><form method="POST" action="http://host.com/cgi-bin/test.py">
> >Your first name: <input type="text" name="firstname">
> ><submit button goes here>
> ><input type="hidden" name="session" value="1f9a2">
> ></form>
>
> You can
>
Ignacio provided an answer to the seemingly contradictory issue.  I'll just
have to figure out why I am not getting the value with a white space in the
list of keys.
Thanks,
Maan




From maxm at normik.dk  Tue Aug 21 10:07:23 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:07:23 +0200
Subject: Needs advise for good structure for discussion class (Long)
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197DF9@exchange>

Although this message is about Zope it is mainly about Python, so I send it
here instead of on the Zope list.

I belive that the general problem is interresting enough to get discussed in
c.l.py, so here goes.

I am trying to build the "ultimate threaded discussion module" for Zope. I
belive that the monolithic frameworks that exists today are _evil_ :-) and
that what is needed is more flexible modules.

My main design criteria is:

    1) It must easy to "skin". By this I mean that it should be simple to
write new dtml that gives it a new functionality and look.

    2) It should be as flexible as possible.

    3) it should be easy to write/change dtml script for a beginner.

In python a simple code snippet for listing the messages would be::

    for msg in sortedMessages:
        print msg.indentLevel*'   ' + msg.content

In dtml it would be::

    <dtml-in sortedMessages>
        <dtml-var "indentLevel*'???'"><dtml-var content><br>
    </dtml-in>

'sortedMessages' is a method that takes two optional arguments.
'threadOrder' and 'messageOrder'. Either can be 'forward' or 'reverse'.

getSortedMessages(self, threadOrder='reverse',
                          messageOrder='forward')

This is to support all the ways a discussion can list the messages according
to user preferences.

Typically::

    Thread 1
        Re: Thread 1
            Re: Re: Thread 1
    Thread 2
        Re: Thread 2
        Re: Thread 2

(Messages that has no parents are threads, messages that has parents are
just messages.)

So the idea is to get the class to return a sorted list of message objects.
Each message has it's 'indentLevel' property assigned dynamically in
accordance to how the messages are sorted. This makes it very simple to
script it in dtml and Python. No ugly and evil recursion ;-)

Naturally this will cause me problems because Python use referenced objects,
s? if two users are trying to get the list with different sorts, all hell is
loose.

I haven't figured out just yet how to solve this. Probably the 'indentLevel'
should not be a property of the message class.

The short of the long is that I have written the below class to play around
with different solutions. And I have realised that I really am in need for
some ideas as to how I should structure the program.

Some qustions I have:

    - Will it be easier/faster to sort the messages by iteration or
recursion?

    - Should the message class have a 'child' parameter too, so it would be
easier to sort it in a recursive manner.

    - Should I just put the parent and child objects into the messages?

    - Should I sort the list in the 4 possible combinations on insert insted
of what I do now?

    - Does anybody has any ideas as to the smartes way to structure this
idea?

    - Is this to stupid to ask in the newsgroup?

ANY ideas, comments and solutions will be welcome.

Sometimes the fluidity of Python makes solutions much simpler than other
approaches that are inspired by other tools and languages. They can just be
hard to discover sometimes. What I really hope for is some "Blinding flash
of the obvious". But anything else will be appreciated.

Meanwhile I will continue to work on the problem myself.

regards Max M

###############################################

class message:
    
    def __init__(self, id, content, parent):
        self.id = id
        self.content = content
        self.parent = parent
        self.indentLevel = 0

class messages:
    
    def __init__(self):
        self.mesgDict = {}

    def addMsg(self, id, content='No content', parent=0):
        self.mesgDict[id] = message(id, content, parent)

    def getSortedMessages(self, threadOrder='reverse',
                          messageOrder='forward'):
        # find the threads (parent messages)
        threads = [msg for msg in self.mesgDict.values() if msg.parent==0]
        threads.sort()
        # so far i only returns the first message in all threads
        return threads

if __name__ == '__main__':
    """
    Thread 1
        Re: Thread 1
            Re: Re: Thread 1
    Thread 2
        Re: Thread 2
        Re: Thread 2
    """
    diskus = messages()
    diskus.addMsg(0, 'Thread 1')
    diskus.addMsg(1, 'Thread 2')
    diskus.addMsg(2, 'Re: Thread 1', 1)
    diskus.addMsg(3, 'Re: Thread 2', 1)
    diskus.addMsg(4, 'Re: Thread 2', 1)
    diskus.addMsg(4, 'Re: Re: Thread 1', 2)

    sortedMessages = diskus.getSortedMessages()
    for msg in sortedMessages:
        print msg.indentLevel*'   ' + msg.content


                         - N?rg?rd Mikkelsen a/s -
             www.normik.dk - Vandv?rksvej 18 - DK 5000 Odense C
               Tlf (+45) 66 14 14 80 - Fax (+45) 66 14 19 43
                     Max M - Direkte (+45) 63 14 47 15
               



From karthikg at aztec.soft.net  Sat Aug 18 05:15:51 2001
From: karthikg at aztec.soft.net (Karthik Gurumurthy)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:45:51 +0530
Subject: can i safely assume that __del__ will always be called
Message-ID: <NEBBJNMDEKBIBCMCNMBDKEFHCCAA.karthikg@aztec.soft.net>

Unlike Java where am not really sure when finalize will be called,
can i be sure that __del__ of my resource w'd be called when someone does
a del(ref) as long as ref in the only refernce to the Resource object.


def useResouuce():
	res = DBResource()
	#use DBresource
	del(res)


Even if someone does'nt do a del,

__del__ w'd be immdiately called when the scope of function useResource
completes??

If that is the case i need not rely on the client to do
clean-up of the source explicitly?.

thanks,
karthik.




From paulp at ActiveState.com  Mon Aug 27 22:53:44 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:53:44 -0700
Subject: XML-RPC/SOAP vs. plain-old URLs
References: <09Ai7.3369$1T5.45479@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <3B8B07B8.9506EDCD@ActiveState.com>

Thomas Weholt wrote:
> 
> Just read
> http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1113/byt20010816s0002/0820_udell.html and it
> got me thinking. I'm in the middle of a project using alot of XML-RPC for
> communication between servers. The article clearly shows that there's a
> significant overhead using XML-RPC ( guess much of the same would apply to
> SOAP implementations too ).

I don't think that the point of the article was that there is overhead.
I think that the point is that most arguments to functions are simple
and return values are often much more complex. 

>...
> Could somebody point out limitations when using URLs instead of XML-RPC ?
> Datatypes? Data structures?

Yes and yes. But maybe you con't care about those. They don't matter for
many apps. 

> Will the overhead of XML-RPC/SOAP make them slower than plain URLs? 

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. When you get back data from
the server it still must be structured somehow. The defacto and de jure
standard for that is XML (whether or not you are using XML-RPC).

>.... I'll probably keep on using
> XML-RPC for some stuff, but I'll definitly look into creating a module for
> writing/reading simple datastructures using a simpler standard than xml.

I can't imagine a much simpler standard than XML-RPC data types...maybe
less verbose but not simpler! But you can use XML-RPC data types without
actually using XML-RPC to do the call. Other XML data typing standards
include WDDX, SOAP, XMLPickle etc.

Sure, standard Python pickle works if you know that your clients are
always going to be only Python programs. But I think it would be safer
to use something language neutral just in case.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From mhoward at mahoward.com  Wed Aug 15 12:29:20 2001
From: mhoward at mahoward.com (Michael A. Howard)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:29:20 -0700
Subject: Need Help with COM
References: <mailman.997854502.16411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9le863$t2r$1@news.apple.com>

Thanks, that resolved the problem.

Mike

"Stefan Schukat" <SSchukat at dspace.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.997854502.16411.python-list at python.org...
> The object you are using is returing a parameter by reference.
> Since this is not supportted in Python MarkH uses tuples to
> return out values in COM calls. So in your case you should try
> something like this:
>
> o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1)[0].Caption
>
> to access the first return value which is probably your
> object.
>
>
>   Stefan Schukat
>
>
> > "Mark_Pryor" <erlangen72 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:sVie7.10397$ZM2.950970 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Hi,
> > Michael A. Howard wrote in message <9lc9t0$fo4$1 at news.apple.com>...
> > >I'm coming to Python from VB and trying to understand how
> > the COM stuff
> > >works.
> > >
> > >I have a COM server (not written by me) that supports in VB the call
> > >oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
> > >Which returns the caption of this item as I can see it from
> > the object
> > >browser in VB
> > >
> > >The same call in python returns:
> > >Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > >AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'Caption'
> > >
> > >If I use Excel as an example i.e.
> > >o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1).Caption
> > >I get   u'&File'
> > >Which is also what I get in VB (well &File anyway)
> > >
> > >So what am I doing wrong?
> >
> > Thanks for the response but I get the same error message
> > using that example.
> >
> > Unfortunately the COM object is a black box (no source) to me
> > so I can't
> > change it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Either write the call like this (to handle the tuple):
> > ( junk, mycap ) = oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
> >
> > or redesign the Item method to pass the index by value!
> > You might have to switch the vars above.
> >
> > hth,
> > Mark Pryor
> > pgp KeyID: 0x1A966EC5
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>




From owen at astro.washington.edu  Wed Aug 15 18:08:55 2001
From: owen at astro.washington.edu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:08:55 -0700
Subject: problem calling functions with default arguments
References: <9lee98$34p0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7AC3B9.D6FB66@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <owen-697B48.15085515082001@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <3B7AC3B9.D6FB66 at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>,
 Dietmar Lang <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote:

>...
>It has to do with the fact that we have just one list object here: The
>one created when atest() was first executed. It seems that Python
>doesn't create a new list every time, so it keeps growing with each
>append.
>
>You can though, move the default value into the function body. For
>example:
>
>def atest(alist = None):
>    if alist is None:
>        alist = []
>    print 'alist =', alist
>    alist.append('test')
>
>Now it should work. Thanks to my O'Reilly book for pointing that one out
>on me before I had to come face to face with it. :-)
>
>Kudos, Dietmar

Thank you very much. I can certainly see it if the default argument was 
a named variable pointing to the desired default list (since Python 
doesn't have the equivalent of C's "const"), but I didn't expect it for 
a constant such as [] or {}. Anyway, your fix works and all is well.

I did look in the FAQs before posting, but if it's there, I managed to 
miss it.

Regards,

-- Russell


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 07:07:23 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:07:23 +0100
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk>

Hi Piotr,

you might try something like:

for key in d.keys():
	print 'key:'
	for value in d[key]:
		print value



Piotr Legiecki wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I'v created dictionary named d={}. Its structure is like this: 
> 
> {key, [list]} 
> 
> I'd like to print all values stored in  'd'. What is the easiest way to do
> it?
> 
> Regards
> Piotr Legiecki



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sun Aug  5 06:20:02 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:20:02 +0200
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
References: <mailman.996997688.23101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ik6jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:49:53 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>
>Hello!
>
>The following code is from CGI script and provides way to have
>nice calendar:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>from __future__ import generators
>import calendar, string
>def calt(year, month):
>    month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
>    yield """<B>%s.%s</B>""" % (month, year)
>    yield """<TABLE BORDER=1>"""
>    for week in month_cal:
>      yield """\n<TR>"""
>      for day in week:
>        yield """<TD>%s</TD>""" % (day or "&nbsp;")
>      yield """</TR>"""
>    yield """</TABLE>"""
>
>print string.join(calt(2001, 8), "")
>--------------------------------------------------------
>

Like in most of the cases I played with generators, you could have replaced
them with a simple s = "" at the beginning, replace every yield with s +=
<whatever> and a return s at the end. I think you can always do this if all you
want is a list.

>I like generators :-)

I like them, too :-)

>(Probably Python should use "black bullet" or "*" instead of "yield":

I prefer "yield".

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From rupe at metro.yak.net  Mon Aug 13 19:16:50 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 16:16:50 -0700
Subject: Dictionary viewer and editor
References: <79179cf5.0108101306.739764ee@posting.google.com> <j4g0aydhu6.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <cp7kwabv9s.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108131516.36284efd@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<cp7kwabv9s.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>...
> rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell) writes:
> 
> > Are there any programs out there that can take in a dictionary object
> > of arbitrary depth, and display it in a text or graphical tree format?
> 
> Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:
> 
> > I think Pythonwin's object browser can.
> 
> IDLE's TreeWidget can too.  It's used by Stack Viewer in the Debug
> menu.
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

Thanks for the pointer Guido.  I'll give it a go.

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net:8080


From cmiller at math.cudenver.edu  Wed Aug 22 16:00:25 2001
From: cmiller at math.cudenver.edu (cary miller)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:00:25 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221358220.31387-100000@math.cudenver.edu>

How about this?

import os
mod = eval('os')
mod.__file__



Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> import os
> import string
>
> print os.path.dirname(string.split(`os`, "'")[3])
> ---
>
> I tested it under 1.5.2. Does it also work under 2.x?

It seems to (though I used `os`.split() instead of importing
string)--I'm using 2.0

However, I would be worried about this being somewhat fragile, as it's
depending on the specific format of a module's repr()--it seems to be
constant across versions, but I'd hate to presume that it will stay so.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



-- 
Cary Miller
Math Deparment
University of Colorado - Denver
cmiller at math.cudenver.edu
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~cmiller




From fig at localhost.localdomain  Fri Aug 10 11:31:13 2001
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:31:13 -0000
Subject: Python at sourceforge
References: <3B73DD07.8576A76F@chello.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn9n7vvg.1i2.fig@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:57:36 GMT, Roeland Rengelink
<r.b.rigilink at chello.nl> wrote:

>Reactions?

Cool.  I just wrote an article on Python at Sourceforge.  It should be
on the Python DevCenter now.

Can we see your script?

-Stephen




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 03:21:05 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:21:05 -0400
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com> <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <3B84AEE1.7E0B5C68@engcorp.com>

George Garnett wrote:
> 
> I'm not a python programmer, ...
> 
> Python has been re-written into jpython in which the language closely
> parallels the java language. The main difference is java enforces strong
> type casting (which is good), where jpython does not (its a gimmick to not
> scare off non professional programmers who don't want to take the time to
> verify every line of code is type casted correctly (this is the part where
> I'll get beat up on) ). 

Darn tootin'! :-)  If you weren't obviously trolling for 
some controversy on this one, I would have said your comments
on this subject are just plain idiotic.  Instead I'll just
call your straight-faced delivery refreshingly droll.

I'm not only a professional programmer, but I lead a team of 
sixteen professional *Python* programmers.  Let me assure you
that we do not consider the dynamic typing of Python (and here
you are also quite wrong: as has been discussed recently and
thoroughly here, Python is *strongly* but *dynamically* typed,
while Java is *strongly* but *statically* typed) to be a
gimmick, but in fact an extremely valuable feature for 
improving programmer productivity, the quality of the resulting
code, and programmer morale (all related to each other of course).
I also happen to know from reading this group for a while that
this feature was never designed as a mere "gimmick".

> numbered!). JPython is Python's attempt to hold onto all its python
> developers and will provide them with a transition path to java (this is the
> part where I'll get beat up on too) 

At least you know when you're going to get punished. :-)
Actually, I don't think I'm even going to bother with this
one, since it is so easily disproven.

> Both java/JSP and python require knowledge of html/javascript/java/
> jsp/xml/web design. 

A very interesting statement, but again entirely false.  I don't
even know where you got this one.  Just because many Python 
developers happen to use XML, or program for the web, or used
to use Java, that's no reason to state that Python *requires* 
knowledge of any of those things.  (I'll assume you just 
got tired of writing "Here I'll get beaten up again." ...)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From vcardon at siue.edu  Mon Aug 13 23:30:36 2001
From: vcardon at siue.edu (Victor R. Cardona)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:30:36 -0500
Subject: installation tkinter help
In-Reply-To: <9l5q01$mc0$1@news.worldonline.be>; from ph.wuidart@wol.be on Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 01:39:34PM +0200
References: <9l5q01$mc0$1@news.worldonline.be>
Message-ID: <20010813223036.A18556@client156-52.ll.siue.edu>

On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 01:39:34PM +0200, ph wuidart wrote:
> I am new to python
> I install python 2.1.1 to Linux Suse 7.0 (ok) and I have problem to install
> tkinter
> can you help me !
> Thank you

I could send you my Modules/Setup file. It is setup for a SuSE 7.1 
system, but I doubt there would be any major changes in the file.

- v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
 10:28pm  up 4 days,  7:03,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.00
Powered by SuSE Linux 7.1 (i386) 2.4.5-64GB-SMP



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 14:10:56 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:10:56 -0700
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
References: <20010829171028.B8680@Nutella> <mailman.999098332.24419.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8D302F.55F421C6@ccvcorp.com>

Nicolas Evrard wrote:

> Hello everyone, this is my first post to the list and let me say that I
> find python really exciting ... Looks a bit like scheme but is fast and
> have a large community of users ...
>
> Here 's what I've done :
>
> To try the __comp__ method I've done a class for complex number (the usual
> example). But here are the result I've got :
>

... I think that the real problem here, is that you actually want to be
defining __cmp__ (no 'o').  Your __comp__ method works just fine, but is not
called when using less-than (<) (or any other comparison operator, of course).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 21:52:39 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:52:39 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <mailman.997048811.22969.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <459umtohbc1q062j2sgflcc0pmond739vv@4ax.com>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:59:53 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote:

>> I believe PEP0238 is wrong in principle because...
>>
>> 1.  The fact that mathematicians have had many views on integers
>>     and division,
>
>Factually incorrect; mathematicians have no disagreement over the meaning of
>int/int (it's a rational).

Python uses '/' as a division operator - not a way to denote
rationals. Should the Python scanner ever recognise '1/2' as a
rational literal rather than an expression containing a division
operator, maybe you'll have some justification to that claim - the
type of a rational literal clearly being rational, and thus clearly
implying working in the domain of rationals rather than integers.

Mathematicians *have* had *many* views on division, however, depending
on the particular branch of mathematics. Yes, even at least two for
integer division - allow a remainder, or disallow integer division
altogether. Division has been applied in many numeric and symbolic
domains, and each has its own set of assumptions. The remainder in
polynomial division, for instance, has an algorithmic relationship to
the remainder in integer division (the same long division algorithm is
applied in both cases) - but if you know the numeric values of the
numerator and denominator expressions and do numeric division with
those the remainder will have no relationship with the previous
polynomial division remainder - assuming the domain is reals, there
will be no remainder from the numeric division.

>>     and the one that is in most non-specialist mindsets
>
>Hard to know what this means, but the idea that the majority of
>non-specialists see "2/3" and think "0" is absurd on the face of it, if
>that's what it means.

The notation 2/3 in mathematics represents a rational number, and
therefore is not even the same type as integer 0. However...

In the domain of integers  : 2 ? 3 = 0 remainder 2
In the domain of rationals : 2 ? 3 = 2/3

>>     doesn't meet the pragmatic requirements for several fields of
>>     mathematics, is understood. That doesn't make the other
>>     definitions from less demanding, more down-to-earth fields
>>     invalid.
>
>PEP 238 retains an operator for flooring division (assuming that's what you
>mean).

I was referring to the way that some people claimed integer division
was 'wrong' division and did not exist in mathematics - a claim made
by some people because of specialist areas such as field theory, as if
field theory was the whole of mathematics. IIRC, you did not go so far
as to claim integer division is non-existent but you did claim that
all integer division requires a floor or ceiling notation just because
such notations are required in certain areas of mathematics, so you
can hardly claim to be unaware of that issue - but then maybe I'm
confusing Tims again.

>> 2.  It particularly does not invalidate the practical view which most
>>     people can easily understand, which is taught to everyone at
>>     a very early age and which also happens to work extremely well
>>     for typical programming tasks (not just specialist applications).
>
>PEP 238 doesn't dispute the utility of flooring division (assuming etc).

I was refering again to the expressed views of certain PEP238
advocates that take particular specialist fields of mathematics to be
the whole of mathematics. The word 'particularly' in English tends to
imply that you are following on from the previous point.

I am fully aware of what PEP238 says.

>>     Doesn't the pro-pep views insistence on the most pragmatic
>>     possible definition of discrete integer division seem more than a
>>     little inconsistent with their sloppy attitude to the much more
>>     fundamental difference between discrete and continuous
>>     mathematics?
>>
>>     Just because it isn't the unnecessarily pragmatic (for normal
>>     programming tasks) field of mathematics that a few people
>>     subscribe to, it doesn't make it wrong. It is simply from a less
>>     specialised, more basic and more generally useful field that
>>     doesn't address the  specialist problems of the minority over the
>>     general day-to-day practicality of the majority.
>
>If that were English, it would be easier to make a response <wink>.

Read it again. The awkwardly precise wording was forced by some people
willingness to force a wedge into the slightest imprecision in
wording.

The facts are quite simple, though. Some on the pro-PEP have tried to
use field theory as a justification for the claim that integer
division does not exist in mathematics, and should therefore be
supported only through a distinct operator. Yet they are quite happy
to lose the distinctions between numeric domains by discarding the
metadata implicit in types, apparently simply to suit the needs of
heavy users of floats and first-day programmers.

>> 3.  Practically all programs use discrete integer quantities -
>>     indices, subscripts, counters, sizes and more - whereas numerics
>>     is a particular specialist field.
>
>You've got some private definitions for these terms I was never able to
>grok.

Look them up in a kiddies math dictionary. The difference between
working in a discrete domain and working in a continuous domain are
well recognised. Loop indices, list subscripts, counters and sizes of
lists, strings and other structures are all integers, and working with
them implies working in a discrete domain - specifically the integer
domain.

>>     Making life more awkward for the majority just to suit a few
>>     specialist fields is not rational. It's the specialists dealing
>>     with specialist fields who should have to deal with awkward
>>     special case syntax and semantics - not the everyday user.
>
>The idea that a majority of non-specialists believe 2/3 means 0 has not been
>established, and IMO is almost certainly false.

Of course, in maths the rational number 2/3 is not an integer at all,
let alone zero. But the division operator, which is represented by '/'
in Python, can be used in any numeric domain except those specialist
domains (such as fields) that explicitly ban it. That includes the
integer domain in which, using a common mathematical notation, '2 ? 3
= 0 remainder 2' - just as in the rational domain '2 ? 3 = 2/3'.

>> 4.  Discrete measures and continuous measures are not the same thing
>>     and should not be arbitrarily confused.
>
>PEP 238 suggests two distinct operators in order to reduce confusion(!).

Great. Lets also have different operators for rationals when they are
added, to further reduce confusion then. After all, float arithmetic
has limited precision and we discard the remainder - different to what
is done for both integers and rationals.

Or alternately, we can carry on doing what we already do - carrying
meta-data about the numeric domain in the type of the values and not
bothering with an arbitrary range of special-case division operators.

>>     Discrete integer division makes perfect sense despite the fact
>>     that specialist fields have outlawed it for specialist reasons
>>     relating to specialist problems.
>
>Nobody has "outlawed" any meaning for division, "specialist" or otherwise.

I didn't say a meaning of division was outlawed - I said that division
itself was outlawed in certain specialist fields.

An example is field theory, which outlaws division in all fields
(except those based on modulo arithmetic with a prime base, IIRC)
because division cannot be a perfect inverse of multiplication in such
fields. That is the argument I was countering.

>>     This is much more fundamental than just switching between
>>     different representations of continuous measures.
>
>"This" doesn't appear to have a sensible referent.

The prior paragraph was...

"""
4.  Discrete measures and continuous measures are not the same thing
    and should not be arbitrarily confused. Discrete integer division
    makes perfect sense despite the fact that specialist fields have
    outlawed it for specialist reasons relating to specialist
    problems.
"""

To give a simple example, the difference between working in the
discrete integer domain and the continuous real domain is much more
fundamental than whether you use a float, rational or fixed point
representation to approximate values in the real domain.

>>     The pro-pep groups arbitrarily application of continuous measure
>>     division principles with a discrete integer type is wrong in
>>     mathematics,
>
>Factually incorrect.

Oh - so, when working in the integer domain, it is perfectly valid to
produce non-integer results then?

>>     and it is wrong in engineering,
>
>Whether it's velocity = distance/time, or voltage = watts/amps, engineers
>rarely have "discrete" division in mind.  So "wrong" is wrong here too.

Your naming of a few examples of real measures does not disprove the
existence of integer measures in engineering. Having half a support to
hold up a bridge would be pretty pointless, wouldn't it? Or how about
distributing the weight of an aircraft between its 2.7 wheels, 1.8 of
them being under the 1.4 wings? Rather naff examples, but having
worked in an engineering field for some years in the past I can assure
you that integer measures/scales/the integer domain/whatever occurs
quite frequently.

>>     and it is wrong in programming.
>
>The meaning of division a program needs depends entirely on context.  Any
>meaning is "wrong" in some programming contexts.

I said *arbitrary* application of assumptions from a particular a
particular numeric domain was wrong.

>>     My use of more practical day-to-day discrete principles for
>>     discrete integer arithmetic than would be appropriate in field
>>     theory - or even 16-year-old pure mathematics, I fully agree
>>     - is not the same thing at all.
>
>Couldn't parse that one.

It refers back again to claims made by certain pro-PEP238 people that
integer division does not exist, or always requires additional
notations which are used in certain specialist mathematical fields, or
whatever.

>> 5.  Having established that division on the discrete integer type
>>     should work in the only practical way that makes sense
>
>LOL!  I hope that was *meant* to be tongue-in-cheek.

The integer type is the only way we have to indicate we are working in
the integer domain, as (despite your best attempts to twist my words)
my message stated. But then, as you are so convinced that arithmetic
in the integer domain should be allowed to produce non-integer
results, I can see how you would find this statement laughable.
Personally, I find your suggestion laughable - you are arbitrarily
applying principles from the real domain to the integer domain where
they don't apply again.

>This is too time-consuming, Steve, and I think it's clear why you didn't get
>support for the kinds of arguments above even from the anti-PEP camp.

I absolutely agree - far too time-consuming. There are none so blind
as those who will not see. It's not even as if I'm claiming that your
view is invalid - only that the alterative view has equal validity,
and that it is possible to counter any position in support of your
viewpoint just as it is possible to counter any position in support of
mine, as is the nature of any religious debate. I'm simply
disappointed that no-one has come up with a sufficiently strong
counter that it breaks the self-consistency of my view - arguments
against my view have almost entirely relied on ignoring the meaning of
my words, and that is very tiring.

>Code breakage was and remains a strong anti-PEP argument.  You once thought
>it was supremely important to "do what other scripting languages do", but
>since the JavaScript and VB examples backfired you don't mention that claim
>anymore.  I thought that was a marginal but plausible argument, and still
>do.  No other anti-PEP argument survived my personal credibility cutoff.

I once thought it was important to consider what other programming
languages (not just scripting languages) did based on sheer numbers.
Note that's particularly not just scripting languages as a Python user
is much more likely to be using C, VB, Java or Delphi along with
Python - most are unlikely to be using loads of different scripting
languages at the same time?

I made the mistake of thinking Visual BASIC (the most used single
programming language for some time) followed the pattern of C, C++ and
Java. I was wrong, and the numbers of Visual BASIC and Delphi users
certainly make the issue uncertain. So it's not that the issue is
unimportant (though of course it is a relatively minor issue), just
that it cannot provide a clear answer in the way I once thought it
could.

I explicitly admitted my mistake when that error was pointed out.

Guido then raised the view that other languages would only be relevant
if we knew the rationale for the change. At which point I noted that
Java deliberately kept the division behaviour from C and C++ whereas
Ada deliberately changed from the two-division-operators used in
Pascal etc. That is, where a language has been created based on a
deliberate attempt to take past languages and clean them up, the only
two examples I'm aware of have shown a clear preference to division
the same way that Python currently does it. And the rationales are
available on the web if you care to look.

At that point the result was silence, and it has continued to be
silence when I re-raised it in response to another pro-PEP238
distortion similar to your "since the JavaScript and VB examples
backfired you don't mention that claim anymore" claim from above, and
in at least one other case where I reraised it quite recently.

Similarly, when someone pointed out an error in a pro-PEP238 claim
about Ruby, the result was again silence.

How many people around here have explicitly admitted they are wrong
when they are wrong?

I have on several occasions. Care to name anyone else?

The general pattern is that when I point out that working in the
integer domain is different to working in the real domain, people
accuse me of claiming that the rational 2/3 is equal to the integer 0.
And when I contradict a claim that integer division does not exist, I
get accused of claiming that PEP238 will not allow integer division.
And so on. Even when they read the words, they certainly ignore the
meaning.

>if-you-still-feel-ignored-it's-not-because-you're-ignored<wink>-ly
>    y'rs  - tim

No? - you also seem to have done a pretty good job of reading the
words and ignoring the meaning.



From polopunk209 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 11 01:15:10 2001
From: polopunk209 at hotmail.com (Josh)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 22:15:10 -0700
Subject: Installing .TGZ File I Got From Python.org....
Message-ID: <d0a9c74e.0108102115.47fa503d@posting.google.com>

I need help installing the .TGZ file that's distributed at Python.org.
I have the base .EXE running, but I'm stumped for answers concerning
what to do with this file. I have WinZip 8.0, and my OS is Win98 SE.
(I would be running Mandrake, but my parents are attached to Windows.
The teenage years really are traumatic...)

Also, where do I unzip the Debug.zip file? Any help would be
appreciated, and I wouldn't be asking this question if the UseNet
search had turned up anything helpful, so I apologize for polluting
the board with lame questions.

-Josh

P.S. If you didn't gather this from my first post on the board, I'm a
newbie.


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug  2 19:34:31 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 19:34:31 -0400
Subject: Map generation/plotting
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <tmhfjqlfe1f7e3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ulml2yr20.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Andrew Henshaw" <ahenshaw at apower dot com> writes:

> May not fit with your OS of choice, but I've used Python to drive Microsoft
> MapPoint through a COM interface.  Pretty slick.

Yeah, I was perusing that a bit last night - does it embed nicely
within another application or will it always want to control it's own
window?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Tue Aug 14 17:08:48 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:08:48 -0700
Subject: Python CGI on WinMe/98/95
Message-ID: <he4jnt0v0v1k34a0niejjmjqjccqenh113@4ax.com>

I had a sudden need to play with cgi and MySQLdb on a personal
Windows (not a server jobber).  I installed the Microsoft Personal
Webserver first, and fought with it for awhile, then wiped it and went
with Savant.  Making a long story short, I'm running both Perl and
Python scripts in a cgi-bin subdirectory.

However, I wanted to mention what seemed to be a problem and 
MIGHT be a gotcha for others out there in Python world.

In my File Associations for .py and .pyw files, the string I had under
open | edit was something like 

  d:/program files/python21.exe "%1" %1*

That looks a little weird, and indeed, which I'd say OK, I'd get a 
warning about file not found.  And yet when double-clicking on a py
file Windows Explorer (a.k.a. the file manager), I'd get my python
scripts to work (not using cgi mind you, just running regular old 
stuff outside the IDLE environment).

When I finally went back to that file association string and made 
it more what Windows expects, i.e.

  "d:/program files/python21.exe" %1 %1

then Savant started working, and I bet PWS would have too.

I'm thinking if this is a problem more generic than "just me", it's got 
to do with the Python installer trying to deal with users opting to install
in a directory with a space in the path name.  Probably most users 
just opt for c:\python21 or at words x:\python21 (some other drive).
But this x:\program files\... business means trouble (maybe -- did for
me).

Kirby




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Fri Aug 24 11:26:13 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (tanzer at swing.co.at)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:26:13 +0200
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:10:59 BST."
             <9m3kqi$hor$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> 
Message-ID: <m15aIqb-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:

> Christian Tanzer:
> > I'd strongly prefer a IOError exception hierarchy with one exception
> > class for each different errno value to the current situation. You
> > could still catch IOError, but you could also just catch the odd
> > DeviceFull or PermissionDenied exception and leave all others to your
> > caller.
> 
> Paul Rubin:
> >This makes sense to me.
> 
> I believe though that it's complicated to implement while not
> giving much additional power.
> 
> How would it be implemented?  There would need to be a mapping
> from errno to class, and you want the classes to be named DeviceFull
> or similarly readable names, rather than ENOSPC.  So all C-level
> code raising an exception would need to call this mapping and
> construct the appropriate subclass.  And if the errno doesn't
> exists, fall back to use the IOError class it uses now.

    class NoSuchFail(IOError) : pass
    class PermissionDenied(IOError) : pass
    class NotADirectory(IOError) : pass

    IO_Exception_Map  = { 2 : NoSuchFile
                        , ...
                        , 13 : PermissionDenied
                        , ...
                        , 20 : NotADirectory
                        }

The code raising an I/O exception just would use the C equivalent of

    raise IO_Exception_Map.get(errno, IOError), (errno, message)

> That's doable, just more complicated, but the advantage is being
> able to do
> 
> try:
>   f(x)
> except DeviceFull:
>   ...
> except PermissionDenied:
>   ...
> except TextBusy:
>   ...

Looks much better to me than catching IOError and then analysing the
errno. 

> Now suppose you're on a system which doesn't have a TextBusy
> (errno == ETXTBSY, "if one tries to exec() a file that is currently
> open for writing").  Since the errno doesn't exist, should the
> TextBusy subclass exist?  If it doesn't, then on some machines
> there will be a NameError for TextBusy.
> 
> So to catch those problems you'll need to have a generic
> 
> def check(err):
>     return errno.errcode.get(err.errno)
> 
> 
> except IOError, err:
>     if check(err) == "ETXTBSY":
>         ...

I can't follow. The IO_Exception_Map could still map ETXTBSY to
TextBusy -- that this exception isn't raised on a specific system
shouldn't be a problem for anybody, should it? 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 14 19:20:57 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:20:57 -0700
Subject: Integer division and remainder
Message-ID: <7x3d6ui5ye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I've just started reading/playing with Python and I notice that
integer division and remainder in python works differently than in
most languages.  In python, division always returns the floor,
i.e. non-integer quotients are always rounded downwards, towards
negative infinity:

   7 / 3 =  2
  -7 / 3 = -3

This is kind of strange.  Normally you expect (-a)/b to be the same as -(a/b).
That's what happens in most languages, where division rounds towards zero:

  7 / 3 =  2
 -7 / 3 = -2 

I think the motivation was so that % would work as a "mod" function
instead of the more normal "remainder" function.

Python:  -7 % 3 = 2
Most other languages: -7 % 3 = -1

The mod operation is useful for many things, but I think assigning it to %
in Python shows some confusion in Python.  The result of % is an ordinary
integer, not an integer mod N.  

I think it would have been better to leave / and % alone, and define
a new pair of operators (maybe /_ and %_) to implement what Python does.
That's similar to Common Lisp, which provides the trunc-mod and floor-mod
functions to implement remainder and modulus respectively.  I don't
remember if CL has a floor-div function, but it might as well.


From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 21:35:16 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:35:16 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:

> Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?

Yes, I'd like to remove this.  See my previous post in this thread for
more of an explanation of the problem.  But I haven't decided yet!
This thread will help me figure out how big of a deal it will be.

Also note that nothing will change (yet) for classic classes -- in
2.2, classic classes will use a different metaclass from "new-style"
classes, and the classic metaclass will provide the same semantics
for classes and instance as before.  The class statement creates a
classic class by default -- unless you explicitly subclass from a
built-in type or a new-style class.

In a sense, in 2.2 the new-style classes will still be experimental,
and it's quite likely that based upon feedback from users they will
change (for the better) in later versions.

> > Let's just say that use of this feature is at your own risk.  It was
> > an experiment.  I *could* restore it partially (see below) but I'd
> > rather not, given that better alternatives are available.
> 
> Are there any features that we can use any longer that are not 'at our own
> risk'?  Division will be changed, __class__ assignment is going away,
> type() means something different, even the rules of scope...

But you're getting so much in return!  Subclassing built-in types,
get/set methods, class and static methods, uniform introspection...

> Also, as far as I know, better alternatives do not exist; for example,
> "promise" objects from a database which are latently initialized when they
> are accessed.

If you know the type it's going to be eventually, you can use
C.__new__() to create an uninitialized C instance.

> One module that I use *all the time*;
> twisted.python.rebuild.rebuild, is based entirely upon this "trick".

I guess the name ("twisted") says it all. :-)

> One
> of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
> and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.

You will still be able to modify *classes* dynamically -- although you
have to declare this option by putting __dynamic__ = 1 in your class
statement.

> Smalltalk's Object>>become: is highly useful for similiar reasons; is
> there a new way to emulate this without __class__ assignment?

Probably not -- although I don't know what that does.

> > I'm sure I'd be able to come up with some kind of check that works. It
> > would probably be very similar to the check I already use to determine
> > whether two base classes are compatible -- the check that stops you
> > from doing "class C(list, dictionary)".  But I repeat: I'd rather not.
> 
> Is there a discussion somewhere of why you'd rather not?  This is
> *essential* functionality for me, especially since it sounds like it won't
> be able to be completely replicated through some other mechanism.

I'd rather not because it's a complicated check to write, and it may
be difficult to explain the restrictions.  Here's an example of the
kind of restriction that is unavoidable.

I don't know how familiar you are with Python's C-level internals.  If
you are, you'll appreciate the problem if I took a list object and
changed its type pointer to the dictionary type -- the instance
lay-out of a dictionary is different, and all the methods would be
using the list data as if it were dictionary data.  Recipe for
disaster.  Likewise, changing a featureless object into a list or dict
would at the very least require growing the size of the instance; this
would require a realloc(), which may move the object in memory.  But
if there are other references to the object, these would all have to
be updated.  Python's run-time architecture just doesn't support that.

> (If you implement "reference.become(other)", for example, I won't
> mind nearly so much <0.5 wink>)

I'm not sure what that means, but if you could live with weak
references, we could easily add a way to change the referent of a weak
reference object.

> > That depends on how much of a slowdown it is. :)
> 
> I don't know about others who use this feature, but the way I use it I
> could afford to wait 0.5 seconds for each __class__ assignment and not be
> too upset about it.  Losing this ability entirely, however, would remove a
> significant feature from Twisted when used with a later python version.  
> I implore you not to remove it.

Understood.  Nevertheless, all evidence suggests that Twisted is not
typical Python code. :-)

I guess I have a bit of a hidden agenda: Python is more dynamic than
the language I *wanted* to design.  Some of the dynamicism was simply
a implementation trick.  Some of the dynamicism is getting in the way
of optimizing code, because the optimizer can never prove that certain
variables won't be changed.  So I'm trying to look for ways that pin
down things a bit more.  I'm making assumptions about how "typical"
Python code uses the dynamic features, and I'm slowly trying to
introduce restrictions in the language that make the optimizer's life
easier without affecting "typical" code.

For example, we're looking into optimizing access to builtins.  For
this, we need to assume that the __builtin__ module is immutable; in
addition, if a module doesn't have a global 'len', for example, we
have to assume that such a global won't be inserted into the module
dynamically.  I'm only aware of a very small number of applications
that violate this constraint; I'd rather provide a separate explicit
mechanism to override built-in functions so that the optimizer can be
aware of a potential change and avoid it.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From mark21rowe at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 00:40:30 2001
From: mark21rowe at yahoo.com (Mark Rowe)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:40:30 +1200
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org> <slrn9n69ao.id9.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <3B735049.4547EC3E@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <3b737128@news.actrix.gen.nz>

Hi,

The first example should be written:

>>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
>>> f=open('e', 'w')
>>> f.write(''.join(l))

and the second should  be something like:

>>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
>>> f=open('e', 'w')
>>> l2 = map(str, l)
>>> f.writelines(l2)

This is because f.write() takes a expects a string argument, not a list, and
f.writelines() expects a list of strings, not a list of integers.

Mark

"Grant Griffin" <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote in message
news:3B735049.4547EC3E at seebelow.org...
> Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters
<mertz at gnosis.cx>
> > wrote:
> > >Grant Griffin wrote:
> > >|Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are
presumably more
> > >|suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how
to write
> > >|the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's
probably a
> > >|simple way to do that: what is it?
> > >
> > >''.join(lst)         # Python 2.0+
> > >string.join(lst,'')  # Python 1.4+ (or something)
> >
> > There is also file.writelines(lst).  It's not documented in my version
of
> > python, so maybe you're not supposed to use it, but why put it there
then?
> > It's been there for quite a while now.
>
> The other day I had tried that with "write".  It went something like
> this:
>
>    Python 2.0.1 (#18, Jun 30 2001, 10:36:44) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
>    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>    >>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
>    >>> f=open('e', 'w')
>    >>> f.write(l)
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    TypeError: read-only character buffer, list
>
> but maybe it should have been "writelines" instead:
>
>    >>> f.writelines(l)
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    TypeError: writelines() requires sequences of strings
>    >>>
>
> what-part-of-'Traceback'-don't-I-understand?-<wink>-ly y'rs,
>
> =g2
> --
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
> Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
> Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com




From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Wed Aug  8 06:25:38 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:25:38 +1000
Subject: PNG images in PhotoImage labels
References: <mailman.997153990.30603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7113A2.E66A3C9C@student.gu.edu.au>

moonlite56 at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> I am learning Python this summer, and kind of ran into a rut when I
> tried to display .png images in a simple label test. This is what I
> have so far:
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> top = Tk()
> top.title("Kuti")
> top.geometry("200x100")
> 
> iKuti = PhotoImage(file = "gameboy.png")
> lHello = Label(top, image = iKuti)
> lHello.grid(row = 1, col = 1, sticky = W)
> bQuit = Button(top, text="Quit", command = top.quit)
> bQuit.grid(row = 1, col = 2, sticky = E)
> 
> top.mainloop()
> 
> This works with gameboy.gif, but gameboy.png displays an error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "tkinter.py", line 9, in ?
>     iKuti = PhotoImage(file = "gameboy.png")
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.0/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2974, in __init__
>     apply(Image.__init__, (self, 'photo', name, cnf, master), kw)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.0/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2930, in __init__
>     self.tk.call(('image', 'create', imgtype, name,) + options)
> TclError: couldn't recognize data in image file "gameboy.png"
> 
> How do I get this to work with PNG images?

This is because the underlying tcl/tk (if it is standard tk) only
recognises gifs, *hunts for reference book* pgm and ppm formats. You can
use png's if you install the python imaging library (PIL). With PIL
installed, do the following (After you've created a Tk instance or you
get a RuntimeError returned on the second line.):

import Image,ImageTk
iKuti = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("gameboy.png"))
# You're using Image.open("gameboy.png") instead of the file =
"gameboy.png" bit.

Isn't Tkinter cool?!!!
--
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 27 16:20:30 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:20:30 -0700
Subject: Python version dilemma
References: <9me54u$4a3$1@flood.xnet.com> <mailman.998941722.3618.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mea2e$q9s$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.998941722.3618.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    > I have a set of scripts that use 2.1 syntax.  Now, I'd really like
>    > these scripts to, when run by the 1.5 interpreter, gracefully state
>    > that version 2 is required.  However, my code fails during the
>    > compilation stage with the 1.5 interpreter (SyntaxError's and such),
>    > and so never gets the chanced to execute a code portion that might
>    > print a pretty (or at least useful) error message.
>
>What you might want to do is push your version dependent code into separate
>modules.  Suppose your module is named "mod".  In mod.py do this:
>
>    try:
>      from mod21 import *
>    except SyntaxError:
>      from mod15 import *

Eww.  That would mask a real syntax error (say, introduced by a typo).
Use an if statement.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug 26 22:44:30 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:44:30 +1000
Subject: Facilities Management Software.
In-Reply-To: <3B89ACD7.46D3BCD8@vu.edu.au>
References: <Pine.SC5.4.21.0108271039340.25671-100000@bubbles.contal.net.au> <3B89ACD7.46D3BCD8@vu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <01082712443001.01423@ike>

On Monday 27 August 2001 12:13, Bart Bartels wrote:
> THANK you.  I think that I will take your advice.  This sounds like a good
> way to do the initial development and I will also take John Socha's advise
> and take the minimalist approach i.e. start using the software as soon as
> it starts to work and refine from there.

Please consider using an existing tool as a starting point. I'm the lead 
developer of a Roundup implementation project - see:

   http://roundup.sourceforge.net/

Roundup is a very well designed issue tracking system that has a very 
flexible database backend allowing almost any conceivable issue tracking 
application to use it (bug tracking, support issues and your requests 
scenario). It comes with two example schemas (the extended one is actually in 
use here as our bug/support tracking system) and is easy to add new ones. It 
has command-line, CGI and e-mail gateways. And more...

Roundup will allow you to achieve all the requirements that Andrae gives in 
his message, and then some. I'd be happy to expand on that if you like. There 
is a users mailing list that you may subscribe to for more help.

I send you this message just so that you don't go off and re-invent the wheel 
unnecessarily :)


    Richard



From new_name at mit.edu  Fri Aug  3 15:59:07 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 15:59:07 -0400
Subject: rexec questions
References: <mailman.996864975.20659.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etdzo9gdies.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Try doing something embarrassing with it:

>>> import rexec
>>> rexec.RExec().r_exec("import popen2; popen2.os.execvp('echo', ('foo',))")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/mit/python/arch/i386_linux22/lib/python2.1/rexec.py", line 264, in r_exec
    exec code in m.__dict__
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "/mit/python/arch/i386_linux22/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 291, in execvp
    _execvpe(file, args)
  File "/mit/python/arch/i386_linux22/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 310, in _execvpe
    func = execv
NameError: global name 'execv' is not defined
>>> 

I think in this context, 'ok_builtin_modules' means modules statically
linked into python.  In that case, 'os' isn't a builtin module.

Alex.



From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug 28 17:25:51 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:25:51 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
Message-ID: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com>

I have a question about file locking aspect of the fcntl module for Unix
systems.

I was checking out the man pages on the Linux system that I use (my
webhost), and under man flock(2) it mentions (among other things):

NOTES
       flock(2) does not  lock  files  over  NFS.   Use  fcntl(2)
       instead:  that  does  work  over NFS, given a sufficiently
       recent version of Linux and a server which supports  locking.

       flock(2)  and fcntl(2) locks have different semantics with
       respect to forked processes and dup(2).

Python docs for the fcntl module state:

lockf(fd, operation, [len, [start, [whence]]])
	This is essentially a wrapper around the fcntl() locking calls. 
	fd is the file descriptor of the file to lock or unlock, and...

Am I correct, then, in interpreting these together, to mean, that I will
get greater portability/control if I use fcntl.lockf than if I use
fcntl.flock? Because, as I read this, fcntl.lockf may work in situations
where fcntl.flock does not (especially over NFS?).

Please advise. Thanks,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From a11w at SoftHome.net  Fri Aug 17 05:01:57 2001
From: a11w at SoftHome.net (Jiba)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:01:57 +0200
Subject: PEP 252: __slots__ inappropriate
References: <mailman.997954826.3219.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7CDD85.6EA764EA@SoftHome.net>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> No, this is not good, because slot is ooptimization hack involving
> low-levels of Python implementation. (I am not at all happy it appears in
> Python.)

I totally agree with you.

I think all those hacks are contrary to the dynamic Python philosophy.
Yes, 90% of Python code can be wrtitten without any dynamic features,
but the 10% left require the whole code to be dynamic, and it is those
10% that are really interesting.

And if we do need speed, i don't think *this* is the right way ! Think
rather multithreading, event, ...

Jiba




From anamax at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  5 01:47:50 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 22:47:50 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com>

Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message 
> You didn't respond to my comments on potential for performance gains.  Can I
> assume that I scored a point?  ;-)

Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
consideration.

I figure that there are about five applications in the world that qualify,
and they're written in assembler.  (The other candidates have migrated
to hardware.)  They, and their techniques, are less relevant to most
of us than F1 racecars.

Type systems have certain benefits.  They also have certain costs.
For almost all of us, the performance "potential" isn't a benefit.

I suppose someone should have mentioned the costs of inappropriate
attention to performance.  Chosing a language because you hope that
its type system will help with performance seems to qualify.

-andy


From brian at sweetapp.com  Sat Aug 18 14:27:52 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:27:52 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
In-Reply-To: <7xhev5z291.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <002001c12813$7fa676b0$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

Paul Rubin:
> I dislike the runtime system and the doctrinaire OO culture that's
> grown up around Java, but having constants, and rigorously enforcing
> protection of private class members and methods is one thing Java did
> right.

If you believe that then Python might not be the language for you. The
problem with enforcing privacy is that the designer can seldom
anticipate all of the possible uses of their code and placing arbitrary
access restriction can make it impossible for the user to accomplish
their task.

> It makes the "applet sandbox" very straightforward.  This
> is useful for web browser extensions but also for security
coprocessors
> (Dallas Java iButton, Nci)

Python is a general purpose programming language and its design should
not be significantly compromised to make a particular (uncommon) usage
more convenient i.e. security environments.

Cheers,
Brian




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 11:41:43 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:41:43 -0400
Subject: Newbee question here.
References: <20010811011037.21887.00002980@ng-dd1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B755237.166CF075@engcorp.com>

Patio87 wrote:
> 
> When I downloaded Medusa, and I had finished winziping it I got like 50 of
> those snake icons and they all did the same thing. They all just went into
> Python for like a half second and went out. I have no Idea on how to use Medusa
> If someone could help me I would much appreciate it Thanks, Pat

This is rather droll, considering who Medusa was in Greek
mythology.  <wink>

-stonily-avoid-the-real-question-ly yr's, Peter


From ctavares at develop.com  Sat Aug  4 14:28:25 2001
From: ctavares at develop.com (Chris Tavares)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:28:25 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <d9Xa7.747$N42.81948@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf at 4ax.com...
>
> >Since I can write more powerful programs in smaller, more readable
> >chunks, I think I write less buggy code. If we have to reduce the
> >simplicity/expressiveness of the language in order to add type-checking,
> >then I think the tradeoff is not worth it.
>
> I emphatically agree. Syntactic type declaration is considerably out of
> place with Python.
>
> Although I was thinking about about something which might be useful.
> What if Python were to support a type consistency check on containers?
>
> >>> mylist = [1,2,"alpha"]!
> Type Consistency Error:
> >>>
>
> Note the exclamation point.
>
> C//
>
>

Doesn't the array module already do this?

 >>> a = array.array( 'i', [1, 2, "hello world"])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: an integer is required
>>>

-Chris





From rburnham at cri-inc.com  Mon Aug  6 12:41:35 2001
From: rburnham at cri-inc.com (Roger Burnham)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 16:41:35 GMT
Subject: Python Job Posting: Boston, MA
Message-ID: <3b6ec699.11408674@news-server.socal.rr.com>

Cambridge Research & Instrumentation, Inc. (Boston, MA, USA) 
SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER/Working Supervisor 

CRi's Instrument Division is looking for a highly competent, self-motivated
software engineer to lead and contribute to our growing and results-driven
software team in the design and development of our technically-advanced,
high-performance biotech and spectral imaging products.  

Our ideal candidate will have a B.S./M.S. in a technical discipline, such as
Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Computer Science, Math or Physics,
with the following requirements:

*) 5+ years hands-on experience developing robust software products in all phases
from requirements and design to coding.

*) Extensive experience and proficiency in Python and C/C++.

*) 2+ years technical team leadership with strong cross-functional communication
skills

*) Proven track record of architectural experience

*) Ability to communicate with scientists to implement needed algorithms.

*) Must have Windows or Unix experience, both is a plus

*) Experience in real-time instrument control and data acquisition.

In addition to proven experience with the requirements listed in the above
description, a knowledge of and/or interest in biotech instrumentation would be
an added plus. 

CRi is a fast-growing pre-IPO company with divisions focused on biotech
instrumentation and telecom components, modules, and instruments. Our innovative
instrument products are primarily based on state-of-the-art tunable liquid
crystal devices that we manufacture.  We offer a stimulating and challenging work
environment, competitive salary and benefits package, including stock options,
incentive bonuses and a company-matched 401(k).

Please submit applications to Mary Ann Ryan at MRyan at cri-inc.com. For further
information on CRI, visit www.cri-inc.com 

phone: (888) 372-1242
fax:   (781) 935-3388
Roger Burnham
rburnham at cri-inc.com


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug  8 09:17:43 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:17:43 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
In-Reply-To: <lZ9c7.54178$WD1.3231605@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081717050.18926-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:
> Sam Rushing's Medusa distribution does contain some information on it, but
> the real documentation is the comments in the code. Reading that should
> enable you to connect to a working Medusa server (and hence, presumaby, to a
> working Zope).

   Do I understand it right that we are talking about Medusa monitor and
monitor client?

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug 15 08:37:31 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:37:31 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: need definitive answer: capture a keypress
In-Reply-To: <90qkntktle172v8vdl6jgi9eh646of3n8f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108151636540.18202-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 robin at brainexeculink.com wrote:
> On Linux, I can use curses and getch(). But there appears to be no way
> of checking for a hit, equivalent to kbhit().

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=off&th=fe6a3930cf390c66,5&seekm=m38zxqyrxr.fsf%40atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk#p

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Aug 29 12:04:23 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:04:23 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9ops86.ks3.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> In article <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer
Deyke wrote:
> ><gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:9mfqmi$ko4$1 at thorium.cix.co.uk...
> >> c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)
> >
> > That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
>
> After reading a handful of follow-ups, I'm still curious what
> you mean when you say that's unreliable.

>>> def foo(a, b): return '%.2f' % (float(a)/b)
...
>>> foo(1, 200)
'0.01'
>>> foo(3, 200)
'0.01'
>>> foo(5, 200)
'0.03'
>>> foo(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000l, 2)
'5000000000000000200000000000000000000000.00'


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 12:01:33 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:01:33 -0500
Subject: how to stop a server (TCPServer, for example)
In-Reply-To: <002f01c12a54$d1281910$4cc809c0@pckrumm.com>
References: <002f01c12a54$d1281910$4cc809c0@pckrumm.com>
Message-ID: <15234.34269.179375.245793@beluga.mojam.com>

    Huayin> How to make the server clean itself up and exit?
    Huayin> Do I need to implment an exit method for the server?

That's typical.  In my serve_forever method I have (effectively)

    while self.serving:
        r,w,e = select.select([self.socket], [], [], self.pause)
        if r:
            self.handle_request()

My exit method simply sets self.serving to 0.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Wed Aug 15 16:53:34 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:53:34 GMT
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <7x3d6ui5ye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn.pl.9nkdkj.1md.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <Xns90FEE4C507380rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:

> 14 Aug 2001 16:20:57 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com>
> pisze: 
> 
>>    7 / 3 =  2
>>   -7 / 3 = -3
>> 
>> This is kind of strange.  Normally you expect (-a)/b to be the
>> same as -(a/b). That's what happens in most languages, where
>> division rounds towards zero: 
> 
> Donald Knuth says that Python is right and C is wrong, and I agree
> with him here. I expect a%b for positive b to return a value in the
> range [0, b).

You might be interested to know that a well-known and widely used 
formula for calculating the day of the week, Zeller's congruence, 
failed on many systems for dates >= 2000 just because on most systems 
the mod-function gave the wrong results for negative values. On Python 
the problem wouldn't have occurred, its mod-function is mathematically 
correct.


Robert Amesz



From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Wed Aug  8 03:18:10 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 09:18:10 +0200
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
References: <mailman.997212435.27088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yv2itfz6mvh.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Kemp Randy-W18971 <Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com> writes:

> Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.
> I have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I want to
> replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump off a cliff."
> This is a comic example, but I need to do something similar in real life.
> How can I do this in Python, running on Unix? 
> 

Everyone, (even me) seems to be sure that this calls for something
sh/sed/awk like. Nevertheless, I'll try a Python one.

import glob
import re

## loop over all file names in the current directory
for fname in glob.glob("*"):
  ## slurp in the whole file
  fin = open(fname)
  text = fin.read()
  fin.close()

  ## do the replacement in memory  
  s =  re.sub("your pattern here", "the replacement text", text)

  ## dump it out
  fout = open(fname, "w")      # WATCH OUT, THIS DELETES THE OLD FILE
  fout.write(s)
  fout.close()

This is UNTESTED code. Use at your own risk.

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 10:59:27 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:27 +0100
Subject: scope question
Message-ID: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk>

Can anyone explain the following behaviour to me

if I type:

count = 0
def function():
	print count

function()


that works fine, however, if I type this:

count = 0
def function():
	count += 1
	print count

function()

I get the following exception

UnboundLocalError: local variable 'count' referenced before assignment

why does it find the global variable in the first case and not in the 
second?

blobby



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Aug  7 10:27:51 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:27:51 +0200
Subject: Zope python paths
References: <0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kotiu$265g$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Robin,

Have a look at this registry key (for me, it's in Win2K):

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.1\PythonPath

I think a python 2.1 engine for Windows will find the python path here at
startup.
Make some changes to this key (i.e, add any directory) and see what happends
in your Zope test.
If it changes in your Zope test too, perhaps you should provide a PYTHONPATH
in the script that starts Zope to override this.
Or make a small change in the Z2.py

--Gilles

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message news:
0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm at jessikat.demon.co.uk...
> I have just installed Zope 2.4 and am trying to get some packages to run
> with it. These are failing fairly miserably with really strange errors
> such as can't find module asyncore.
>
> I suspect path confusion with my existing Python 2.1 setup.
>
> A simple check with an external method
>
> def pythonPath():
>         import sys
>         s='path=\n'
>         for p in sys.path:
>                 s += p + '\n'
>         return s
>
> give me that the path inside this method is
>
> path=
> C:\Python\WebSite\lib\python\ZopeZODB3
> C:\Python\WebSite\lib\python
> C:\Python\WebSite
> C:\Python\WebSite/lib/python
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/plat-win
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/win32
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/win32/lib
> C:\Python\WebSite
> C:\Python\WebSite
> c:\python\pythonwin                     !
> c:\python\win32                         !
> c:\python\win32\lib                     !
> c:\python                               !
> c:\python\website\bin\dlls
> c:\python\website\bin\lib
> c:\python\website\bin\lib\plat-win
> c:\python\website\bin\lib\lib-tk
> c:\python\website\bin
>
> the bits marked with ! are obviously causing some confusion as they
> relate to my existing installation. Is there an obvious way to inhibit
> this erroneous path pickup if I can determine where it comes from?
>
> I don't seem to have a PYTHONPATH environment variable set in the .cmd
> file that runs zope.
> --
> Robin Becker




From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 12:03:39 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:03:39 GMT
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9l2uqm0eub at enews2.newsguy.com...
> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997499838.6140.python-list at python.org...
> > From: Jeremy and Debra Jones <dnjjones at yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > It seems like if you were to do it in a rdbms, you would need at least
> two
> > > tables:
>     ...
> > No, one table:
> > TBL
> > ( PARENT, CHILD, CHILD_ATRIBUTE1,..,
> >  PRIMARY KEY (PARENT, CHILD))

I really hadn't thought of it like that.  That would work...I learn
something new every day (especially in this news group :-)

> Something wrong with this constraint, since it implies a child may
> have multiple parents.  I think CHILD by itself needs to be the
> primary key.

That would work.

>Otherwise I agree -- no need to use multiple tables
> for a parent/child relationship.  Rather, since children appear to
> have varying attributes, you'll need to split THOSE off into a table
> of their own (with CHILD as a foreign key).

In the example that I was working on, the children (not of the same parent,
but in different tiers of the hierarchy) were of differing types and would
have different attributes and different quantities of attributes.  I don't
know if I spelled that out exactly like that initially, but immediately
under the root would be test sets.  The test sets right now don't have any
attributes of their own, but they do have children - tests.  The tests would
have an attribute of pass/fail and a reason why and commands as children.
The commands would have attributes of expected result, pass/fail, actual
result.  I suppose you could hack together a table that would accomodate all
of those different attributes and have CHILD as a foreign key, but it seems
it would be a pain to give it room to grow if I needed it to.  (I just KNOW
that I am setting myself up here for you guys to show me some dynamite way
to accomodate a dynamic set of varying numbers of attributes since it is
obvious that both of you have worked a lot more with databases than I have.
When you prove me wrong, I will gratefully accept the humiliation  :-)

I appreciate the posts.  They have definitely spurred me on to think
differently.  I am still inclined to think that the DOM/XML route will be a
more simple route for my specific problem.




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Aug  2 15:57:14 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:57:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What's the standard way to turn a code object into a function
 ?
In-Reply-To: <903e2d53.0108021136.77c07e25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108021555140.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


I don't know if there is a "standard" way -- it's not something that
is routinely done. But take a look at the 'new' module.

>>> import new
>>> dir(new)
['__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'classobj', 'code', 'function',
'instance', 'instancemethod', 'module']
>>> new.function.__doc__
'Create a function object from (CODE, GLOBALS, [NAME [, ARGDEFS]]).'

See the library reference manual for a more complete description. 

-- Steve Majewski





From kuntsi at cc.helsinki.fi.Spam.Me.Not  Mon Aug 27 15:16:37 2001
From: kuntsi at cc.helsinki.fi.Spam.Me.Not (Antti Kuntsi)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 19:16:37 GMT
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
References: <mailman.998651976.28203.python-list@python.org> <3B888F33.2CB036F6@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <slrn9ol73o.4lu.kuntsi@sirppi.helsinki.fi>

Joal Heagney <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> wrote:
>  Simon Brunning wrote:
> > What are you - some kind of Luddite? Next you'll be telling me that you
> > think meeting people is better than email!
>  Welll .... *grins* There's just SOME things you can't do over email!

Isn't that why IRC and all kinds of chats were invented ;-)

.antti

-- 
         /"\                           |    iki.
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign |    fi/
          X      Against HTML Mail     |    mickut
         / \


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug 20 05:46:18 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:46:18 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500 (FIXED)
References: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net> <tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9lqlut$864$1@norfair.nerim.net>

OK it's fixed...

My cgi-bin virtual directory was located in the wwwroot (/) for documents.
Now it's outside and it works...
Thanks evrybody and sorry for the disturbance.


--Gillou

"Maan Hamze" <MHAMZE at austin.rr.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Gillou
> change the key to something like .gcp
> reboot, and see if it works.
> Try it with a very simple script:
> print 'Content-type: text/html'
> print 'testing python cgi'
>
> for the value, try:
> "C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"
> or
> "C:\Python21\python.exe -u %s %s"





From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Aug  3 18:35:37 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 22:35:37 GMT
Subject: counting occurrences
References: <9kf2l60uic@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mm9pp.6dm.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 3 Aug 2001 13:47:34 -0700, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>This then usually leads to a need to "sort keys by value"--something like this:
>
>   itemlist = [(value, key) for (key, value) in counter.items()]
>   itemlist.sort()
>   itemlist.reverse()
...
>For me, this sort of thing comes up so often that it qualifies as an "idiom".

So put it in a function.

>However, the sorting thing is a pain (at least a first--then you get so you
>like to impress people by having finally found a use for list
>comprehensions<wink>), so I mentioned to a friend that it would sure be nice
>if Python dictionaries had an "items_sorted_by_value" method.  But, among
>other things, my friend (who has been using Python for a *long* time) said
>that he has never wanted such a thing, because he doesn't see counting
>occurrences "as a dictionary operation".
>
>So how do you think he does it?

Here's how I would probably do it:

def occurrences(pred, seq):
    # (t -> Boolean) -> [t] -> [(Int, t)]
    d = {}
    for elt in seq:
        if pred(elt):
            d[elt] = d.get(elt, 0) + 1
    a = [ (v, k) for (k, v) in d.items() ]
    a.sort()
    a.reverse()
    return a

Use it like so:

from __future__ import nested_scopes
def count_word(w, fp):
    punctuation = ',."\';:-/()[]{}'
    kill_punctuation = string.maketrans(punctuation, ' ' * len(punctuation))
    def word_in_line(s):
        return s in s.translate(kill_punctuation).split()
    return occurrences(word_in_line, fp.readlines())

Note that generators can make generating the 'seq' argument easier.

This is probably a more functional approach.  An object-oriented approach
would be to make a "counter" object which wraps your dict and presents a
'item(e)' to count a new item, 'occurrences(e)' to show how many times 'e' has
been item()ed, 'historgram()' to give a list of frequencies, etc.


From r.b.rigilink at chello.nl  Fri Aug 10 08:57:36 2001
From: r.b.rigilink at chello.nl (Roeland Rengelink)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:57:36 GMT
Subject: Python at sourceforge
Message-ID: <3B73DD07.8576A76F@chello.nl>

Hi,

I've wasted an afternoon getting to know htmllib. In the process I 
gathered the following information that readers of this newsgroup might 
find interesting

One measure of the relative popularity of programming languages in the
open source community may be the number of sourceforge projects that
use these programming languages.

I have extracted the following statistics on Python, Perl, Java and C
from the sourceforge trove listing.
http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php

The absolute numbers refer to the number of projects --with a
registration date before the date in the table-- that list the given
language as (one of) their programming languages.

Relative numbers are given with respect to the number of projects at
01-jan-2000 and with respect to the number of python projects.

  date    absolute numbers   relative numbers    rel. numbers
                             (00-01-01 = 1.00)  (python = 1.00)
         Pyth Perl Java    C   Py Perl Java    C Perl Java    C
00-01-01   28   63   32  185  1.0  1.0  1.0  1.0 2.25 1.14 6.61
00-02-01   63  122   91  365  2.2  1.9  2.8  2.0 1.94 1.44 5.79
00-03-01   91  169  135  516  3.2  2.7  4.2  2.8 1.86 1.48 5.67
00-04-01  121  242  210  719  4.3  3.8  6.6  3.9 2.00 1.74 5.94
00-05-01  157  317  281  934  5.6  5.0  8.8  5.0 2.02 1.79 5.95
00-06-01  213  413  368 1203  7.6  6.6 11.5  6.5 1.94 1.73 5.65
00-07-01  258  527  479 1462  9.2  8.4 15.0  7.9 2.04 1.86 5.67
00-08-01  311  642  602 1727 11.1 10.2 18.8  9.3 2.06 1.94 5.55
00-09-01  366  782  760 2020 13.1 12.4 23.8 10.9 2.14 2.08 5.52
00-10-01  414  908  900 2270 14.8 14.4 28.1 12.3 2.19 2.17 5.48
00-11-01  464 1030 1081 2542 16.6 16.3 33.8 13.7 2.22 2.33 5.48
00-12-01  520 1174 1265 2813 18.6 18.6 39.5 15.2 2.26 2.43 5.41
01-01-01  566 1294 1438 3044 20.2 20.5 44.9 16.5 2.29 2.54 5.38
01-02-01  637 1435 1638 3368 22.8 22.8 51.2 18.2 2.25 2.57 5.29
01-03-01  695 1578 1846 3681 24.8 25.0 57.7 19.9 2.27 2.66 5.30
01-04-01  758 1734 2115 4018 27.1 27.5 66.1 21.7 2.29 2.79 5.30
01-05-01  813 1888 2318 4339 29.0 30.0 72.4 23.5 2.32 2.85 5.34
01-06-01  887 2005 2533 4605 31.7 31.8 79.2 24.9 2.26 2.86 5.19
01-07-01  936 2130 2708 4858 33.4 33.8 84.6 26.3 2.28 2.89 5.19
01-08-01  997 2243 2916 5130 35.6 35.6 91.1 27.7 2.25 2.92 5.15
01-09-01 1014 2278 2963 5202 36.2 36.2 92.6 28.1 2.25 2.92 5.13

Interesting conclusions:

- The relative number of Python and Perl projects have remained
  constant over the past two years
- Java was initially the most rapidly growing of the four languages,
  but relative numbers with respect to Python an Perl have stabelized
  over the last 5 months.
- The relative number of C projects has been declining slowly but 
  steadily

A big caveat:

Listed are the number of projects that have been started, no attempt 
has been made to weigh the succesfullness of these projects (measured 
for instance by either current status or activity ranking)

Reactions?

Roeland

-- 
r.b.rigilink at chello.nl

"Half of what I say is nonsense. Unfortunately I don't know which half"


From jpet at eskimo.com  Sun Aug 26 03:53:10 2001
From: jpet at eskimo.com (Jeff Petkau)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:53:10 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0238
References: <mailman.994427714.26169.python-list@python.org> <cpsngaja4g.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <FFv17.1178$Y6.656565@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <cpelrskgrr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <EV1i7.1612$y84.1250617@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

> But there are dimisishing returns.  Integer division isn't that
> common, ...

I find that awfully hard to believe.

I just scanned through the Python-2.0 source for integer
division.  Out of 1055 .py files, 111 use integer division
and will be need to be fixed for the new division behavior.

I didn't count the exact number that used floating division,
but it was much smaller--maybe 20 files or so. The majority
didn't use any division at all.

There are whole fields of computing where you might never
encounter a floating point number, but I can't imagine any
where you'll never need integer division.

Anyway, since I wasted an hour counting them, here's the
breakage list:

Demo/classes/md5driver.py
Demo/classes/dates.py
Demo/classes/Range.py
Demo/zlib/minigzip.py
Demo/tkinter/guido/electrons.py
Demo/tkinter/guido/hanoi.py
Demo/tkinter/guido/solitaire.py
Demo/tkinter/guido/sortvisu.py
Demo/rpc/xdr.py
Demo/scripts/fact.py (ok if exact results yield integers, eg. 6/3 is 2)
Demo/scripts/ftpstats.py
Demo/scripts/lpwatch.py
Demo/scripts/markov.py
Demo/scripts/pi.py
Demo/scripts/unbirthday.py
Demo/sgi/al/intercom.py
Demo/sgi/al/playaiff.py
Demo/sgi/video/DisplayVideoIn.py
Demo/sgi/video/Dsend.py
Demo/sgi/video/LiveVideoIn.py
Demo/sgi/video/LiveVideoOut.py
Demo/sgi/video/VCR.py
Demo/sgi/video/VFile.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vb.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vcopy.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vfix.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vinfo.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vmkjpeg.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vplay.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vrec.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vrecb.py
Demo/sgi/video/Vunjpeg.py
Demo/sgi/video/aplay.py
Demo/sgi/video/video2rgb.py
Demo/sgi/sv/burstcapt.py
Demo/sgi/sv/contcapt.py
Demo/sgi/sv/rgbgrab.py
Demo/sgi/gl/mclock.py
Demo/sockets/ftp.py
Demo/threads/Generator.py
Doc/tools/buildindex.py
Doc/tools/keywords.py
Doc/ref/reswords.py
Lib/aifc.py
Lib/audiodev.py
Lib/bdb.py
Lib/binhex.py
Lib/bisect.py
Lib/calendar.py
Lib/dumbdbm.py
Lib/ftplib.py
Lib/imaplib.py
Lib/pstats.py
Lib/quopri.py
Lib/repr.py
Lib/rfc822.py
Lib/sndhdr.py
Lib/stringold.py
Lib/sunau.py
Lib/tabnanny.py
Lib/tokenize.py
Lib/uu.py
Lib/wave.py
Lib/whrandom.py
Lib/xdrlib.py
Lib/zipfile.py
Lib/dos-8x3/stringol.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_aud.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_aug.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_bin.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_exc.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_gra.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_img.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_lon.py
Lib/dos-8x3/test_opc.py
Lib/lib-old/para.py
Lib/lib-old/cmp.py
Lib/lib-old/poly.py
Lib/lib-old/rand.py
Lib/plat-aix3/FCNTL.py
Lib/plat-aix3/TERMIOS.py
Lib/plat-aix4/FCNTL.py
Lib/plat-aix4/TERMIOS.py
Lib/plat-beos5/IN.py
Lib/plat-beos5/SOCKET.py
Lib/plat-irix5/SOCKET.py
Lib/plat-irix5/cddb.py
Lib/plat-irix6/SOCKET.py
Lib/plat-irix6/cddb.py
Lib/plat-linux1/FCNTL.py
Lib/plat-linux2/FCNTL.py
Lib/plat-linux2/IN.py
Lib/plat-linux2/SOCKET.py
Lib/plat-linux2/TERMIOS.py
Lib/plat-sunos5/SOCKET.py
Lib/plat-sunos5/STROPTS.py
Lib/test/pystone.py
Lib/test/sortperf.py
Lib/test/test_audioop.py
Lib/test/test_augassign.py
Lib/test/test_binascii.py
Lib/test/test_imgfile.py
Lib/test/test_long.py
Lib/test/test_mmap.py
Lib/test/test_opcodes.py
Lib/test/test_pty.py
Tools/pynche/ListViewer.py
Tools/scripts/byteyears.py
Tools/scripts/ftpmirror.py
Tools/idle/AutoIndent.py
Tools/idle/EditorWindow.py

--Jeff Petkau (jpet at eskimo.com)





From ws at dohao.org  Fri Aug 31 01:26:21 2001
From: ws at dohao.org (Du Wellsun)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 22:26:21 -0700
Subject: help me
Message-ID: <a74b343d.0108302126.6259bd24@posting.google.com>

hi,
  I'm a big new fan of python. I want to be a master in python. I've
read two books,such as Learning Python and Python Developer's
Handbook. Could anybody tell me where I can find example source code
on large project ? and UML Tools to do with python. or better example
code tips . Thanks a lot. I like python.
  I hava a dream ,I want to make python's interactive modle replace my
operating system. Every task finished by python. Can it come true ?
  I also want to make friends with everybody here.
  I don't like Java , Perl , Php and VB, they make me tired much more,
though advantages.


From new_name at mit.edu  Tue Aug 28 17:56:17 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 17:56:17 -0400
Subject: unittest / pdb tricks?
References: <ii7lmk4kk4m.fsf@central.sun.com>
Message-ID: <etdpu9f26im.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Hi, Sam.  Below is the subclass of TestCase that I use to make unittests
throw an exception and drop back into the interpreter when they fail.
You can turn this behaviour off on a case-by-case basis by overriding
the value of __stopOnError__.  I find it useful to do that for some
tests whose failures don't indicate such urgent problems, like the CVS
repository not being completely up-to-date.

Alex.

class TestCase(unittest.TestCase):

    """Version of TestCase that can be easily run independantly of the
    testing framework."""

    __stopOnError__ = 1

    def __init__(self, *args, **kw):

        if args: apply(unittest.TestCase.__init__, (self,) + args, kw)

    def throwsException(self, test_function, expected_exc):

        """True if  'test_function()' throws 'expected_exc'"""

        try: test_function()
        except expected_exc: return 1

    def __call__(self, result=None):

        if self.__stopOnError__:
            result.startTest(self)
            self.setUp(); self.__testMethod(); self.tearDown();
            print
        else:
            unittest.TestCase.__call__(self, result)



From jmg at ecs.soton.ac.uk  Mon Aug 13 12:35:13 2001
From: jmg at ecs.soton.ac.uk (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:35:13 +0100
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org> <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com> <slrn9n833f.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <3B742612.BCEFB452@letterror.com> <cp3d6z46c7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <g0g0avkjem.fsf@scumbag.ecs.soton.ac.uk>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

> > > Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit
> > > time.
> > 
> > Per unit time. It's straight from the numbers at
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/
> 
> But notice that since it's exponential, the curve would have the same
> shape if it was a cumulative total. :-)

Except that it would have to be monotonically increasing (which this
one ain't), unless you admit antimessages into the picture . . .

Jacek


From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 22 12:42:56 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:42:56 GMT
Subject: libpython and position-independent code
References: <Pine.BSF.4.32.0108211544210.3375-100000@localhost>
Message-ID: <3b83dfcf.47010627@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:06:36 -0400, "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy"
<grisha at verio.net> wrote:

:
:Hello there -
:
:I am a bit puzzled by what significance PIC code has in shared libraries.
:(This is Solaris 8, but I'm intersted in how this applies to other OS's
:too)
:
:While tinkering with libtool, I found that it wouldn't link libpython into
:a shared library (mod_python.so), because libpython might not be PIC.

Shared libraries need to be PIC (position-independent code) since the
address they're loaded at can't be guaranteed.  Static libraries will
have some final address calculations done when they're bound into the
program by the linker, so they don't need to be PIC.

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From cbarber at curl.com  Fri Aug 10 09:13:27 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:13:27 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
> > Sometimes you can write C extensions for the slow parts, 
> > but in some cases you will have to start over.
> 
> Applications whose "performance bottleneck" is _100%_ of their code?!
> Never heard of any such thing.  10% to 20% seems to be common.  What
> counter-examples do you have in mind?

Not a bottleneck, but a continuous degredation of performance across the
entire application due to memory use, overhead for method dispatching, etc.
This situation is only likely to happen in very large OO applications.

There are also deployment situations where you might not be allowed to make
use of C extensions.

> > Don't get me wrong, Python is a great language and is useful for many
> types of
> > applications, but it is ridiculous to say that there aren't a significant
> > number of applications for which it does not have the required
> performance.
> 
> Not by itself, surely -- but, when using Python together with lower-level
> languages for that 10% to 20% of code whose speed really matters, I
> can't easily think of examples.

But why can't Python be fast enough without resorting to extensions?  Forcing
users to learn C in order to make their Python code fast detracts from
Python's advantage as a simple, easy-to-use language.

I think that adding features to allow Python powerful enough to remove the
need for extensions would be worth a little bit of extra complexity.  I
personally don't think that type declarations would add much complexity, but I
guess I can see how someone new to them might be confused.  Of course, that
same person would be lost once they had to learn C.

- Christopher


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Thu Aug  9 17:22:13 2001
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:22:13 +0100
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
References: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net>
Message-ID: <3B72FF00.A5C005C4@accessforall.nl>

Mark,

you wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>     I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want to
> call on an object.  How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
> function call?  Here is an example
> 
> funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
> x = len(funclist)
> y = 0
> while y < x:
>     value = testobj.funclist[y]
>     y = y +1
> 
> This way I could grow the list of functions to be called without coding more
> like the way I am doing it now. I would like to avoid doing the following:
> 
> value = testobj.func1()
> value = testobj.func2()
> value = testobj.func3()
> 

All the getattr() stuff is great. For testing it has been
coded for you in PyUnit.py. It will do your while loop (above),
administer your test results and a lot more, when you are willing
to declare your test methods in a subclass of an
imported testing base class. Elaborate example:

http://diveintopython.org/roman_divein.html

You can get it here:

http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/

Have fun,
Ype

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From marcj at zwallet.com  Fri Aug 17 19:28:48 2001
From: marcj at zwallet.com (marcj at zwallet.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:28:48 GMT
Subject: This is a test
Message-ID: <QMhf7.16685$DT4.252938@weber.videotron.net>

test

--
SUBMIT YOUR AD HERE!
http://www.adtrackclassifieds.com/index.cfm?u=3690361




From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 12 20:44:36 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:44:36 -0700
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com> <G0RgKIAEUAd7Ew$e@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <b0c5da3a.0108120756.48d756a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ed8entg9eu4vo6cen34ccbcgl4l2q53p8j@4ax.com>

dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell) wrote:

>Robin Becker wrote:
>> I have also managed to get a PDF App to pop up using COM directly, but
>> can't seem to get an open document into it, whine
>> 
>
>Untested code cut from another app:
>
>import os, re, thread, sys
>
>assoc=os.popen("assoc .pdf").read()
>assocA=re.findall("=(.*)\012",assoc)[0]
>ftype=os.popen("ftype %s"%assocA).read()
>ftypeA=re.findall('=(".*?")', ftype)[0]

Unfortunately, "assoc" and "ftype" are on Windows NT only.  They aren't
available on Win98 or, of course, Unix.

You can achieve the same end on all Windows systems with
win32api.ShellExecute.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From syt at pegasus.logilab.fr  Fri Aug  3 09:01:47 2001
From: syt at pegasus.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:01:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pure Python vs extending module ?
Message-ID: <slrn9ml85r.24i.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>

hi!

I am working on a xmldiff tool written in python.
The main loop essentially consists in creating lists and reading values 
in those lists.
The problem is that there is a high complexity, and the loop body should 
easily be called more than 1 000 000 times  

Would this work take less time with the main loop written in a C extension
module ?

thanks

-- 
Sylvain Thenault

LOGILAB



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 03:07:18 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:07:18 -0400
Subject: vi % alternive command
References: <3B8417F8.1B469E91@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <mailman.998518832.19955.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B84ABA6.E312EAB5@engcorp.com>

"Matthew D. Wood" wrote:
> 
> Um...  Not quite, but sort of.
> 
> you can use your open lines as a sort of cheat.  for instance '}' should
> move you to the next empty line.  Thus, >} will indent the rest of the
> section you're in.  Unfortunately, it doesn't work as well as you would
> like.
> 
> There was a VIM script at :
> http://vim.sf.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=30
> 
> but I don't think it works like I would like it to.

Maybe somebody could reimplement the script using the Python
scripted version of VIM, thus not only solving the problem
of the OP, but also preventing this from being a completely
off-topic thread.... (?)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug 13 23:34:06 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:34:06 GMT
Subject: Another two examples of using changing classes
References: <637b94bc.0108131426.48c84b3d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <O_0e7.101053$EP6.25883351@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Itamar Shtull-Trauring" <itamarst at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:637b94bc.0108131426.48c84b3d at posting.google.com...
> Changing classes at runtime can be useful at times, and I've done it
> myself at times. And since Twisted uses it and I intend to use
Twisted
> for my server architecture, that's a 3rd use as well.
>
>
> == 1 ==
> I have a proxy class that forwards network requests to a remote
> server. When it gets disconnected, it still needs to respond to
> commands, albeit with failure responses.
>
> However, if a certains commands are given to the instance it can
> reconnect and start working normally again.
>
> The other way to do this is to have two classes - Connected and
> Disconnected, and the instance switches between the classes to
change
> the way it works. Doing this without changing classes would require
> having a frontend instance and a changing backend instance, and
double
> the number of function calls done with every operation.

A third way is to have a 'connected' variable and make every function
conditional on the state variable.  Changing class is much cleaner.

An analogous use in games is when characters get killed and hang
around until resurrection or dissapation of the corpse.

> == 2 ==
> Consider a (SocketServer) network server that supports multiple
> protocols on the same port. When a connection is opened the first
> message tells the handler what protocol to use, and the handler then
> changes its class to the appropriate handler class.

In many games, players start as generic players before
selection/earning a profession/class which adds additional behaviours.
Sometimes there is a second transition to a specialty.This is
naturally modeled as a class hierarchy with transitions implemented by
a class change.

Nice examples.

Terry J. Reedy





From Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au  Thu Aug 23 03:53:48 2001
From: Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au (Bart Bartels)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:53:48 +1000
Subject: Facilities Management software
References: <mailman.998545413.30625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B84B68C.C84D9C12@vu.edu.au>

G'Day

It is interesting to do a google search on this and related topics.  The
Uni that I work for has $A300 mil worth of building and $A??? mil in
plant and equipment, managed by less then 30 people.  Look for Facility
Management software in the Free Software/Open source movement and there
is very little.  Do a Help desk search and it is overwhelmingly IT
related.  There are billions of $ worth of building out there and
millions who are trying to run and maintain them and it is hard to find
software to help us.

I did a search for CA's Advanced Help Desk and it is propriety (CA gives
nothing away) and is probably a good product.  It is IT focused.  If it
was Free Software/Open sourced the I would be able to look at it and
change to suit me (assuming I knew the programing language).  I manage
buildings and services.  I want a tool that I can afford and modify to
suit my self.  I have an itch and it seems that nobody has a
back-scratcher and hence I have started to make my own.

Any one else itchy?  Talk to me and wE'LL build ouR OWN YOU BEAUT
BACK-SCRATCHER... pant, pant, pant

Sorry, getting all worked up :-)

Bart

BTW.  a cultural question?  Which is your given name i.e. which name do
people use when they talk to you.  In the west it is the first one.  In
my case it is Bart


GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH wrote:

>
>
> hello,
>
> we are currently useing a sw 'Advanced Help Desk' (CA) which
> is a sort of Object Ori. Framework for the inter-organization
> helpdesk tasks. The IT req is currently automated. Though
> FM will also be interesting to be added to it's tasks.
>
> I am more involved in customisation of this OO framework sw
> and from what I have seen, has a fairly clean design.
>
> this effort seems interesting, if only to learn python to me.
> btw AHD uses, rdbms in backend, a java OR web-clnt to connect
> to the AHD server to log calls update them etc.
>
> /psg
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010823/54178a1e/attachment.html>

From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 21 15:19:39 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:19:39 -0700
Subject: Extension module crashes when Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS is used in Windows event loop.
References: <pJOe7.11274$Tn1.3204167@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <9luc8b$h2d$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <pJOe7.11274$Tn1.3204167 at news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>,
Parzival Herzog <parz at home.com> wrote:
>
>Can anyone shed some light on what the problem here could be?

What version of Python are you using?  Try using Python 2.1.1 to see if
that makes any difference.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug 16 20:33:17 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:33:17 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
In-Reply-To: <5396362c.0108161256.7d3b7380@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEEJLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[sburrious]
> I think what he's saying is that your use of the plural (see above)
> implies a BOFL (benevolent oligarchy for life), rather than a BDFL.  A
> BOFL for life would be deplorable.  There would be endless morbid
> discussions about which combination of bus accidents should bring the
> oligarchy to an end.
>
> I shudder to think of it.
>
> but-just-in-case-voting-for-guido+tim'ly yours, sburrious

I don't know about this.  Would the switch to an oligarchy be accompanied by
a switch to paying the oligarchy?  And paying them well?  If so, then screw
Guido, I'll volunteer to be OOFL (Oligarchy of One For Life)!

It's all the same to *you* in the end anyway, because I'll die much sooner
than Guido, so you'll be back to the old unpaid BDFL before most people even
notice that the oppressor has changed.  The difference to me is that I'll be
able to afford a headstone for my grave, maybe even with a nice engraving
illustrating proper indentation, for the continued instruction of the
living.

all's-for-the-best-in-this-best-of-all-possible-worlds-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 11:54:28 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:54:28 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
References: <mailman.997798281.28806.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lbhjn0282c@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Simon Brunning" <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.997798281.28806.python-list at python.org...
> > From: Oleg Broytmann [SMTP:phd at phd.pp.ru]
> > On 8 Aug 2001, Simon Brunning wrote:
> > > A preliminary of a Python version quick reference is now available at
> > > <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR.html>.
> >
> >    The ZIP file is broken. Please recreate it and let us know.
>
> Fixed now. Also, text and PDF versions now available. I have also fixed 1
> (one) spelling mistake (thanks, Andrew), so if you have already got the
> HTML, I wouldn't bother getting it again.
>
> Anyone find any other problems?

Paging down the PDF file (with Acrobat Reader 4 working as a
plug-in to IE 5.5) at page 5 I get an error messagebox:
    "There was an error processing a page. Too few operands."
then on clicking OK to that, another:
    "An unrecognized token 285.8.Tw was found"
and page 5 appears totally white.  So there would seem to
be some problem with the PDF version.


Alex





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Tue Aug 28 03:08:08 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:08:08 +0200
Subject: intentional tease ( was: New Python User Question) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "27 Aug 2001 10:48:13 PDT."
             <9me14t01035@drn.newsguy.com> 
Message-ID: <m15bcym-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:

> Python has become an essential tool for me, but, unfortunately, due to
> the speed/size issue, I'm able to use it only for "offline" PC tasks
> like this. My own production code generally runs in embedded systems.
> In those cases, due to the inherent requirement for maximum speed and
> minimum size, one has little choice but to use a compiled language.
> (Historically, due to compiler availability, one has had little choice
> in DSP but to use C, though C++ compilers have recently become
> available for DSP microprocessors.)
> 
> In embedded systems (and many other application domains), using an
> interpreter is simply not an option. Other posts in this thread have
> suggested that the lesser speed of Python is worth what you gain in
> development time. I wholeheartedly agree--at least in those cases
> where you can trade the two. For the offline data processing I do,
> it's a no-brainer: use Python.
> 
> But depending on how many embedded boxes one plans to sell, the ease
> of development of Python can _truly_ be false economy, if it forces
> you to put $10 of extra computer inside the box. (Python still makes a
> good prototyping language, though.) More imporatantly, you sometimes
> simply couldn't get there from here if you used an interpreter.

True. Incidentally, I'm programming design tools for high-volume
embedded systems. In our market, they fight to shave of cents (for
some nodes, the whole embedded CPU costs a few dollars).

So for some embedded code, we use Python to generate C code to be
embedded <wink>.

> Although there are might be some folks who can spend 100.0% of their
> programming lives in Python (except when they have to write extension
> modules <wink>), I suspect that _most_ folks who use Python do part of
> their work in Python and part in a compiled language--probably C/C++.

Since about two years, I'm one of the lucky 95%+ Python programmers.
Sometimes I do reviews of C code...

> *KEY POINT*: Anything that greatly speeds Python (and a compiler--in
> whatever form--is the only thing we can reasonably expect would, after
> 10 years of careful tweaking by lots of talented folks!) increases the
> percentage of programs we can write in Python. That is undeniably A
> Good Thing.

Agreed. As long as it doesn't take away Python's strengths.

> However, in working on my little project, I've realized that even
> leaving dynamic variables aside, certain things in the design of
> Python are inherently "slow". A simple example is the fact that Python
> allows negative array indices. When implementing that, one can only
> check for a negative index, then add the length. And even if it wasn't
> negative, you have to bounds-check the result, to possibly raise an
> IndexError. (An "assert" won't do: the Python code might have been
> written to rely on an IndexError.)
> 
> Therefore, compiled Python will always be slower than something
> written from scratch in C++ (which doesn't do bounds-checking: you
> write it where you need it rather than it happening automatically in
> every case).

I don't agree with this. Two points:

- In a former life, I implemented a big C++ system. The code used
  Eiffel-style assertions (implemented as C macros). For the
  production code, only preconditions were enabled -- postconditions
  and invariants were checked during testing. Disabling the
  preconditions increased application performance by about 10% -- not
  worth the gain, IMHO.

  OTOH, making a key class (linked list) non-dynamic (i.e., removing
  all inheritance relations and virtual statements) increased
  application performance by about 20% -- still not worth the pain,
  IMNSHO.

  The real bottleneck of that application lies somewhere in the depths
  of a flex-generated module doing macro expansions -- pure C and very
  hard too fix.

- If your compare Python and C++ programs implementing exactly the
  same algorithm, C++ will always be faster. But that's a unrealistic
  case.

  Normally, the Python program will be ready to run in a fraction of
  the time of the C++ program. Even in the first version, the Python
  program might use smarter algorithms -- due to the lower cognitive
  overhead of Python, the programmer has more cycles left to think
  about the application at hand. And long before the C++ version is
  ready, the hot spots of the Python version might have seen multiple
  rounds of optimization...

> Although Python has a few methods common among strings, lists, and
> tuples, any code that uses a special string method (e.g. split) wants
> the string to be statically typed: you're not going to be using that
> code for lists, tuples, ints, floats, files, etc.
> 
> I bet there's nobody who has used Python for more than a month that
> hasn't used a string method. Moral of the story: even those who claim
> to do a lot of generic programming don't do it 100.0% of the time, so
> even they can benefit from a little static typing.

Except for the little difference between "" and u"".



-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug  6 20:16:12 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 00:16:12 GMT
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
References: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mucqc.88u.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 6 Aug 2001 15:09:07 -0700, Ben C <benc1 at today.com.au> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Sorry to bother the group with such a trivial Q but for some reason I
>can not find an answer to this in the docs ... how does one 'clear'
>the Python environment .... so all loaded modules and variables are
>freed? (ie return the Python environment back to its initial state at
>start up) I assumed it would have been in the sys module?

The command is actually in the os module:

os.execvp('python', ('python',))



It would be difficult to reset the system "live".  You'd have to unload all
the modules (remove them out of the namespace, and also remove their
sys.modules entries).  Then you'd have to clear out the rest of the namespace,
except things like __builtins__ and None (you want to keep __builtins__ so you
don't lose access to __import__), and manually import the modules the toplevel
automatically imports when it starts (such as site and exceptions (well, not
exceptions any more, I guess)).  And probably a bunch of other things I
forgot.


From michael at stroeder.com  Sun Aug 19 08:07:03 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:07:03 +0200
Subject: Python CGI and multiple forms on a web page
References: <mailman.998208330.20334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7FABE7.565A6E77@stroeder.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> Only the data in the submitted form is sent to the server. The other forms may
> as well not exist.
> The long answer:
> I dug around in the W3C's info about HTML, and although the above is implied,
> it's never spelled out explicitly. Take a look if you want:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h17-13.

>From the examples there I can't imagine how data from several
different forms, say <form> .. </form><form> .. </form>, should ever
be mixed.

Ciao, Michael.


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:52:49 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:52:49 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question About Python
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com> <pg7sntks9t21gugt1beiladbnf7gv73epn@4ax.com> <3B84C21B.5080@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9m31sd0279a@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Fumari" <Fumari at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3B84C21B.5080 at yahoo.com...
> Ive been starting to learn Python by looking over some tuts linked from
> the offical site.  Now it seems to me Python is like perl as in the
> system must have perl installed in order to run the program? is this
> correct, in python you right out the code then command line it?  Is
> there a way to make an exe file?

Sure, although of course it's quite an advanced task (I
would never suggest a newbie to attempt it!-), see
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/ for example.

Python has a wonderful file of Frequently Asked Question (FAQ),
by the way, and this is definitely one of them.  See e.g.
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.028.htp
for your specific question, and
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=all to get the
whole FAQ file to read on your machine.


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 13:16:37 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:16:37 -0400
Subject: Loaded module list and attributes
References: <o2mamt4qtis8r77maqnsmjg7h193aa80t4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <xfAb7.18325$5j7.1237082@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at riverhall.NOSPAMco.uk> wrote in message
news:o2mamt4qtis8r77maqnsmjg7h193aa80t4 at 4ax.com...
> How do I itterate through all the loaded modules and find the name of the
module and a value of a
> local attribute (__version__ in this case)?
>
> I'm writing a small debugging routine and Python internals are still a bit
of a black box to me.
>
> Thanks.
> --

You need to be a little careful, as the modules table contains None for some
modules and so won't have the attribute you are looking for. With that
caveat, try something along the lines of this, which prints the length of
each module's directory:

>>> for n, md in sys.modules.items():
...        if md:
...                print n, len(dir(md))

Obviously you can use hasattr() to check whether the particular module has
the attribute you seek.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/




From gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 09:36:50 2001
From: gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net (Greg Landrum)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:36:50 -0700
Subject: debug Python interpreter work with the debug swig dll
References: <97592a5.0108310521.3c226a62@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mo3n4$4r9$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

"Irina Kotlova" <Irina.Kotlova at lhsl.com> wrote in message
news:97592a5.0108310521.3c226a62 at posting.google.com...
> Hello All,
>
> Could anyone advise how to make debug Python interpreter "python_d" to
> import the previously built dll with a module? The module is the
> interface file "employee.i" with the simple C++ class inside. The dll
> build procedure consists of swig generating wrappers for Python and
> then compiling and linking of a class along with the wrappers.
>

One of the joys of developing under windows is that when you use python_d,
*all* extension module DLLs used must be debug versions.  This means they
all have to have _d appended to their names.[1]

If you modify your project to produce employee_d.dll (or .pyd, or whatever)
when building in Debug mode things should be okay.

Well, at least until you try to import some other extension module that you
don't have a debug version of.

Note: if you are just interested in debugging your *own* code (not Python
itself), you are perfectly safe just using standard python (not python_d).
You can set a breakpoint in your code and have MSVC invoke python on some
script which calls the relevant methods and everything will work fine.

-greg
[1] My initial experience with this a couple of years ago caused me to curse
the names of the python-powers-that-be quite loudly until Mark Hammond
calmly explained to me why it was required.  I don't really remember his
explanation, but it must have been good because my acceptance continues to
this day.




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Wed Aug 29 15:42:51 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:42:51 GMT
Subject: [PyQt] Dropping on ListView
References: <9mis87$fkb$1@news.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <9mjgjr$o2u$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Toralf Wittner <wittner at fossilverlag.de> wrote:
> Hello world,

> consider the following code fragment that is supposed to print the 
> pointer to the QListViewItem a text is dropped on. Unfortunatly it 
> doesn't work. I used the function 'QListViewItem* itemAt(const QPoint & 
> screenPos)' that should return the QListViewItem, but it just doesn't do it.

> Maybe someone is able to tell me what's wrong here and how I could master 
> this problem. Thanks for any comments!

Well, first of all, it's really the QListView that should accept the
drops, not the main widget - you can just as easily use a QListView as
a main widget, so I moved the dropEvent code to the QListView.

Then, the header takes up some space, too. You need to subtract the
height of the header from the drop location. Below is some code that
works (only because it rather messes about to generate drop events,
it'll segfault nine times out of ten - never mind about that).


#!/usr/bin/env python
 
from sys import argv
from qt import *
 
 
class DropDemo(QListView):
        def __init__(self,parent=None,name=None):
                QListView.__init__(self,parent,name)
                self.setAcceptDrops(1)
                self.setGeometry(10,10,100,60)
                self.addColumn("Column 1")
                self.i = QListViewItem(self, "Hello")
                self.ii = QListViewItem(self, "Hello 2")
                print "header", self.header().height()
                r = self.itemRect(self.i)
                print self.i, r.x(), r.y(), r.x() + r.width(), r.y() + r.height()
                r = self.itemRect(self.ii)
                print self.ii, r.x(), r.y(), r.x() + r.width(), r.y() + r.height()
                
        def dragEnterEvent(self, event):
                event.accept(QTextDrag.canDecode(event))
  
        def dropEvent(self, event):
                text = QString()
                print event.pos().x(), event.pos().y()- self.header().height()
                pos = QPoint(event.pos().x(), event.pos().y() - self.header().height())
                item = self.itemAt(pos)
                print item

        def mouseMoveEvent(self, event):
                self.startDrag()

        def startDrag(self):
                d = QTextDrag("blabla",self) # keep a reference to d
                d.dragCopy()
 
if __name__ == '__main__':
        a = QApplication(argv)
        w = DropDemo()
        w.setCaption("Drag and Drop Test")
        w.resize(120,80)
        a.setMainWidget(w)
        w.show()
        a.exec_loop()

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com  Fri Aug 24 15:17:22 2001
From: thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:17:22 +0100
Subject: Tkinter window displaying the time?
Message-ID: <9m698a$t90$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>

How can i display the time (continually updating) in title bar on windows
(WinME), this is the code im using:

from Tkinter import *
from time import *
currentTime=asctime(localtime(time()))
timeZone="GMT: "
hours=strftime("%I",localtime(time()))
minutes=strftime("%M",localtime(time()))
seconds=strftime("%S",localtime(time()))
amPm=" "+strftime("%p",localtime(time()))
seperator=":"
root=Tk()
root.iconify()
root.title(timeZone+hours+seperator+minutes+amPm)
root.mainloop()

I thought of using a while 1: loop and providing a 1 second delay with
sleep(1) to update the title but this don't seem to be working, any ideas???

G. Willoughby




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 08:33:59 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 05:33:59 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B890102.1A772D0E@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <7xzo8l7kco.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:
> > The downside of CRL checking is it means every single one of your
> > secure site visits gets reported to the CA.
> 
> Nonsens. Learn that CRL means Certificate Revocation List before
> spreading fud.

Browser CRL checking (at least in MSIE 5.x) works by checking incoming
certificates against a CRL at the CA, from what I understand.


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sun Aug  5 19:18:08 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 23:18:08 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Qukb7.94207$Xr6.461571@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Stephen Horne:

> I'd like to point out that the large number of 'viruses' I've been
> e-mailed over the last couple of weeks won't affect my viewpoint. I
> thought this was an innocent case of other people being infected at
> first, but it's rather strange that when I reply to these e-mails to
> warn people that their machines have been infected the addresses
> mysteriously don't exist and the messages consistently bounce.

    This is not restricted to you. Large numbers of people have been
receiving these probably due to the Sircam worm/virus. I've received some
and I'm for the division change.

   On the net, general vandalism is a much more likely cause of attack than
malice directed at an individual.

> Fortunately, I'm not stupid enough to run untrusted attachments (no,
> not *even* when they have two extensions to try to fool stupid people
> into thinking they are documents), and even if I was I always have
> up-to-date backups. And yes, I do understand a little Spanish, so
> could the person who sent that mail please reconsider who the 'pajero
> retrasado' is.

   That does look like Sircam which uses random English and Spanish
messages.
   See
http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2776123,00.html

   Neil




From konrad.hinsen at laposte.net  Fri Aug 10 13:50:44 2001
From: konrad.hinsen at laposte.net (Konrad Hinsen)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:50:44 -0700
Subject: Compiling Python 2.1.1 without 16-bit integer type
Message-ID: <1bcfff91.0108100950.26c0d273@posting.google.com>

I am trying to install Python 2.1.1 on a Cray T3E, whose C compiler
doesn't have a 16-bit integer type (char is 1 byte, short is 4,
everything else is 8). Compilation then stops with the message:

Fatal Python error: Unicode configuration error: sizeof(Py_UNICODE) !=
2 bytes

I don't need Unicode support on the Cray, but can I disable it? If
not, could I use a two-byte structure to represent wide characters?
Any other suggestions?

Konrad.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Aug 12 06:17:05 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:17:05 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com> <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l40tk01pfn@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <MB4yXKAheld7EwsX@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9l40tk01pfn at enews4.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
....
>> I suppose there is some overriding implementation issue, but it seems to
>
>Not really, more of a logical issue.  When I "import floop", I expect
>floop's module-level code to have executed fully by the time I get
>to execute the next statement after the import, so I can use (e.g.)
>all functions defined in floop by def statements, etc.  When imports
>are circular, this just can't be -- call it an "overriding implementation
>issue" if you will, but you just can't meet the expected "module-level
>code of imported module has fully executed by the time the statement
>right after import executes" for BOTH modules that import each other.
>
>Circular imports (and circular dependencies in general) are a horror
>and there's little any language can do to make things rosy and peachy.
>Maybe they should be forbidden (i.e., I'm neutral on the thesis "any
>allowance for circularity is a wart", as I said), but as long as they're
>allowed I find Python's behavior in the matter quite reasonable.
>

Since circularity is already a potential danger (whether or not the main
script is involved) I don't think it really adds to the clarity of the
language that the 'main' script gets treated differently. For example if
I have

#a.py
print 'in a'
import b

#b.py
print 'in b'
import c

#c.py
print 'in c'
import a


then running a.py produces
C:\Tmp>a.py
in a
in b
in c
in a


ie a.py is executed twice, if the circularity is not involving a (change
c.py
#c.py
print 'in c'
import b

then running a.py doesn't execute any module twice
C:\Tmp>a.py
in a
in b
in c

I consider that a bit strange since it seems that the special case of
main script circularity is harder to detect/avoid; I believe that's
onlyc caused by the special module name.
>Alex

-- 
Robin Becker


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 07:11:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:11:38 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com> <psoy9p34lvy.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <f8Z97.12190$9i1.1016409@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9kbchb02equ@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:f8Z97.12190$9i1.1016409 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
    ...
> Suppose, in your mission-critical program, you use an int to hold a value
> which should only ever be between 32 and 213. The only way you have to
> exercise that level of semantic control is to declare a class, and test
that
> no assignments violate the required constraint (unless you are using a
> Pascal derivative, which allowed that kind of thing quite nicely, or you
are

...but handles it *at runtime* in the general case, of course (even
though a few special-cases can be hoisted up to compile-time).  Not
to mention the peculiar implication of having INTEGER ranges as a
built-in language feature, and REAL ranges nowhere to be seen -- isn't
it just as important to be able to state that a REAL (in Pascal terms:
float, in Python) variable x ensures A<=x<B, as it is when x is
an INTEGER...?!

> using program proof techniques, which are of little use to the
> mathematically-deficient). So run-time value testing is required even if
you
> force the compiler to do type testing.

Yes, by far most interesting things can't be compile-time tested.


> Type safety completely fails to live up to whatever promise it might have
> unless programmers exercise adequate care to define types which do exactly
> what they want. And most programmers are somewhat sloppy about that.

And most languages (all that I know) just give programmers NO way
to make the type-assertions that really matter ("this function is
antisymmetric", and so on -- all requiring existential and/or
universal quantifiers...).


> and-i'm-no-better-than-the-rest-ly y'rs  - steve
>
> PS: Alex, I'm sorry about the "if type()..."s!

You're forgiven, Steve, as long as you undertake to sin no more...!-)


Alex





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 06:20:18 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:20:18 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net> <3B8CF936.4E20B7E8@student.gu.edu.au> <Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9ml41301p5t@enews1.newsguy.com>

"jeroen paul goudsmit" <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594 at pollux.casema.net...
> Thank you all so much. I'll just go to www.python.org to download it all.
>
> (my pc is:   os - Windows ME (it sucks!)

Alas, yes, it does.  I don't go in for Microsoft-bashing, and I find
Win98 somewhat usable (not stable, sigh, but, oh well), and NT4 in the
latest SP more than usable, but ME is definitely the pits, and I'm not
too convinced about /2000 either.

If you have some diskspace to spare, you might want to look into
http://www.winlinux.net/2001/ (there are other excellent Linux
versions designed to fit in well with Microsoft OS's, but AFAIK
Winlinux/2001 is the only one that specifically supports ME).

Python runs just as well on Win/* systems as on Linux, BSD, &c
ones, but it cannot fully compensate for lack of underlying OS
quality -- and Unix-like OS's are just heads and shoulders above
MS's offers in the /95/98/ME line.  Winlinux won't give you the
FULL potential benefits of Linux -- it's designed so that you
don't have to repartition your disk, etc, so it shares the weak
FAT-based filesystem common to those MS OS's -- a Linux running
on its own filesystem (particularly on its own partitions) would
enhance your box by much more, BUT you wouldn't be moving so
smoothly between the Win side (where you presumably have some
applications you want to keep using) and the Linux side (where
there are zillions of excellent free applications, and things in
general run so much better).

>                   processor - AMD duron 800 mhz (sucks too)

No way -- it's a great little chip.  No Athlon, sure, but it
still beats the pants off any (BAH) Celeron and most Pentiums
too.  Depending on your motherboard/BIOS details, the stepping
level of your Duron chip, how good are your power supply, your
RAM, and particularly your cooling-system, you may well be able
to overclock your machine and squeeze another 10% or 20% of
raw CPU performance from it, by the way.

Right now, as my home-LAN's router/firewall/gateway/proxybox,
I'm setting up an old Pentium-90, 64MB-RAM machine (with Linux,
so far, though I _am_ looking hard at OpenBSD, for that sense
of total security it gives:-), but I'm also hungrily eyeing a
special offer at my local supermarket -- US$500 for a Duron-900,
128M RAM, 20G IDE disk, fast CDROM, decent monitor/video/sound/&c
(which I don't need for its job, though), *and a PCI bus* (rather
than the bad old ISA in my old box) so I could mount 2 or 3 cheap
ethernet cards without hassles.  This way I could run a decently
configured Squid and other 'heavy' proxies right on the box...
(not really consistent with maximum-security ideas, but...).


>                   RAM - 128 (getting 128 extra next saturday...)

The more the merrier, *as long as* your OS doesn't get its
knickers in a twist the way /95/98/ME sometimes do.  Unix-like
OS's are particularly good at exploiting whatever amount of
RAM you have, and Win NT and 2000 not too bad at it, but the
cheaper/home-oriented MS OS's aren't quite as clever about it.


> I'm 14 years old and program only form the fun.

Programming is the most fun-filled activity I've ever tried
(and I've tried many, as my life's been quite a big longer
than yours so far:-), *particularly* with Python.  Overclocking
and playing with Unix-ish OS's aren't too far behind, though!-)


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 07:15:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:15:17 +0200
Subject: how can use mkdir to override the old one
References: <mailman.996651362.9838.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k8occ09ec@enews2.newsguy.com>

"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.996651362.9838.python-list at python.org...
> I use mkdir('doc'),but this directory is exists,so it throw an err.
> how can force to do this

No operating system that I know has the concept of "overriding"
an existing directory.  If the directory that already exists is
good, just catch the OSError that mkdir raises with a try/except.
If you want to rename the existing directory then create a new
one of the same name, do so.  And so on, and so forth; your
description and implication of your desires and problems is
far too short and unclear for me to be of any more help.


Alex





From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Wed Aug  8 09:39:48 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:39:48 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com> <mailman.996787686.29273.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F554E3E4346michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3b6ea347.838398@nntp.sprynet.com> <Xns90F763B569000michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <3b71404b.1075769@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:46:17 +0000 (UTC), Michael Abbott
<michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote:

>ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) wrote in
>news:3b6ea347.838398 at nntp.sprynet.com: 
>
>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:18:56 +0000 (UTC), Michael Abbott
>> <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Why "probably": Of course it's impossible to use the mathematical
>> R[X]/(X^2+1) literally; the elements are equivalence classes of
>> polynomials, in particular a complex number is an infinite set
>> of polynomials, and hence would take too much storage space.
>
>No, no, it's not impossible at all.  You simply use one representative at a 
>time to represent a value, but use the relation when you need to decide 
>whether or not two values are equal.

Of course. I _said_ that. You _quote_ part of where I said that
below.

(Doesn't matter, though - we have a special diss-pensation for
off-topic posts. Um, <wink>...)

>So, if we want to represent S/R where S is a set and R is an equivalence 
>relation on S then we simply use elements of S, but use R to implement the 
>equality test.
>
>Obviously, if there's a canonical choice of a representative, then we can 
>just use that and not take time to compute R.
>
>> Here there _is_ a natural choice of one polynomial to use
>> from each equivalence class, but if you use that one your
>> complex numbers have become precisely pairs of reals.
>
>Quite so.
>


David C. Ullrich


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 04:34:08 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 01:34:08 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998526813.12118.python-list@python.org> <7xlmkbfr8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <2759044.iTtaCxCBeP@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <7xae0ri39b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> writes:
> > I guess that might be the case, at least with the current body of
> > Python programs.  I'm thinking of Python's implementation in terms of
> > whether it's suitable for large, long-running programs, and it's
> > not clear whether anyone really writes those in Python.
> 
> Zope comes in my mind...

Yes, Zope is probably a good example.  I'm told it's slow ;).
I'd like to get around to playing with it sometime though.

> Maybe your docs describe Python 1.5 (which is still the default python 
> for debian, e. G.), but today, python 2.1.1 is stable and 2.2.X is 
> cutting edge :-)

I think it was the 2.1 docs I was looking in, that said cyclic
structures weren't gc'd.  Maybe I missed something, or maybe it needs
an update.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 31 13:31:25 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 10:31:25 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999177586.6959.python-list@python.org> <9mo3k6030th@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xbskwnnki.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> The doubts come mainly from Python considerations - it's very easy
> to drive/automate Microsoft Office via Python, but I still haven't
> managed to do the same for StarOffice; if it does have COM at all,
> it's a strange object model, and I can't find good docs, examples,
> etc.  Admittedly I haven't looked very deeply.  But maybe they're
> not COM- centric *because* they're portable... it's easier for MS
> (they do have COM on the Mac too, although I think it's not
> available to 3rd parties).  

There's a faction (Gnome) trying to automate GNU/Linux desktop apps
with CORBA, which is like COM only fancier.  I don't know of any
attempts yet to gnomify Star Office though.

>Maybe I should look into the Java (Jython) side of things instead.

That would be going to the dark side.


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 08:35:13 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:35:13 -0400
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net> <3B789CC6.2FD7FFB5@engcorp.com> <3b78b4b2@news.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3B791B01.6E694928@engcorp.com>

Mark Rowe wrote:
> 
> Windows NT: You can use the CreateFile function to open a disk drive or a
> partition on a disk drive. The function returns a handle to the disk device;
> that handle can be used with the DeviceIOControl function. The following
> requirements must be met in order for such a call to succeed:
> 
> The lpFileName string should be of the form \\.\PHYSICALDRIVEx to open the
> hard disk x. 

That explains part of the situation. :)  Live and learn.

But I still wonder whether any of this applies to a TAPE drive 
under NT.

I wonder whether you've answered the original question, however, 
with the part about "The caller must have administrative privileges 
for the operation to succeed on a hard disk drive." ?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From tbryan at python.net  Thu Aug 16 11:39:05 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:39:05 +0500
Subject: PLEAC project
References: <mailman.997952546.30621.python-list@python.org> <9lgqmj0ttb@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lhoo8$75h$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> I dispute this, given FAQ number 6 at
> http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac-faq.html
> 
> It gives a Ruby example, but basically it boils down to: since
> Perl automatically initializes unbound variables, and "it is
> -very- important" that PLEAC snippets do just the same as the
> Perl Cookbook snippets, then it's not acceptable to use the
> various languages in the normal way -- presumably (not spelled
> out, but what else could it mean?) *every* variable being used,
> e.g. in Ruby or Python, needs a try/except (in Python's terms)
> to simulate Perl's "convenient" 'auto-initialization'.

That's now how I read that sentence.  It seems to indicate that 
he needs the program to function properly.  That is, you can't 
simply translate 

$a = $b || $c 

to Python's 

a = b or c

That is, as in translating human language, capture the intent and 
style of a solution.  That is, don't solve a completely different problem, 
and don't solve the problems in a completely different way, but don't do a 
word for word translation.

Sounds worthwhile.  For all of the Perl programmers, they can then compare 
the Perl solution to the Python solution when they're stuck in a "I know 
how to do this in Perl" situation, but they're trying to use Python.

---Tom



From garth_grimm at hp.com  Wed Aug 15 14:00:32 2001
From: garth_grimm at hp.com (Garth Grimm)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:00:32 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com> <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <3B7A6B92.B18EEE3E@engcorp.com> <etdsnet4ap0.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <mailman.997892665.9674.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ledc0$111$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

That's about the best solution possible.

Unfortunately, there are some dynamic sites that actually trap what should
be a 404, and instead return a valid 200 and a web page document.
Broadvision being one notable culprit, which often is configured so that a
request to a page that doesn't exist is responded to with the home page of
the web site.

As far as a human user is concerned, this is a dead link, but it's next to
impossible to detect in programming code.  You end up having to make
customized solutions in this case.

--
Garth


"Andy McKay" <andym at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997892665.9674.python-list at python.org...
> Just check the headers, this means you dont get the document, saving
> bandwith and solving the 404 file problem (assuming the set the right
> headers)
>
> from httplib import HTTP
> from urlparse import urlparse
>
> def checkURL(url):
>      p = urlparse(url)
>      h = HTTP(p[1])
>      h.putrequest('HEAD', p[2])
>      h.endheaders()
>      if h.getreply()[0] == 200: return 1
>      else: return 0
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      assert checkURL('http://slashdot.org')
>      assert not checkURL('http://slashdot.org/notadirectory')
>
> --
>    Andy McKay
>
>




From piercew at hushmail.com  Mon Aug 20 08:14:41 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 05:14:41 -0700
Subject: Python COM local server as .exe possible?
References: <mailman.998258369.14350.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108200414.44ff9a1c@posting.google.com>

"Bill Bell" <bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.998258369.14350.python-list at python.org>...
> Can someone tell if I can expect to do this conversion with py2exe, 
> freeze or another products of this kind?
> 
> Thanks for your advice.

??

I don't know if I understood what you are trying to do, create an .exe
from your .py COM server?  I used Standalone.py when I need to make a
.exe, it should work with COM and the win32 extensions.

Standalone.py will create a directory called "dist_<script_name>"
which will contain all the files you need for your application.

http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html

Wayne


From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Fri Aug 17 16:23:21 2001
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:23:21 GMT
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
References: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Z2ff7.595659$K5.63936218@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Andrew Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:33 PM
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)


> So that means I'd need to write code that actually drives
> the Tk widgets "from outside", as it were, either by synthesizing
> events somehow at the OS/window-system level, or by knowing
> enough about the Tk internals to convince the widgets that they're
> being clicked on, typed at, etc. And at that point it looks like
> a lot more effort than it's worth.


Depending on platform there may be tools that do exactly this -- Rational
Visual Test and NuMega TestPartner on Windows come to mind. I've never
looked for corresponding tools on other platforms...

// Brett g Porter * Lead Engineer, Development Practices
// BgPorter @ artlogic . com * http://www.artlogic.com
// Art & Logic * Custom software solutions for hardware products
// Windows * MacOS * Embedded Systems




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Aug 15 08:17:30 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:17:30 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: eof?
In-Reply-To: <3B7A4C7C.CF1A3C3A@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010815141725.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 15-Aug-2001 Dietmar Lang wrote:
 > >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
 > >         process(line)
 >  
 >  Is xreadlines something I missed or is it a misspelled readlines?
 >  Because as far as I know readlines reads in the whole file into a list
 >  containing the lines, which might not be so practical if the file is
 >  waay big?

That is exacly the situation that xreadlines is for. It does not read
the whole file into memoryas readlines do, but serves the lines of the 
file one by one, with the same syntax as readlines. Compare this to 
range and xrange. Others can give a more detailed description.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    15-Aug-2001
Time:    14:14:01

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com



From root at rainerdeyke.com  Mon Aug 13 00:52:38 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:52:38 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997671441.2464.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q2Jd7.28672$c8.9128118@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Glyph Lefkowitz" <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997671441.2464.python-list at python.org...
> Let me underscore this once, and put it in the terms I think of it in:
> with these changes, you will be introducing the worst design error of C++
> into Python.  Indeed, the _central_ problem with C++ is that it always
> prefers efficiency over dynamism, even in its so-called "high level"
> features.

I strongly disagree here.  Quite aside from the efficiency issue, C++'s lack
of dynamism is a feature, not a bug.  (This does not change the fact that
C++ is an unholy mess.)  Such a feature would not be appropriate for Python,
however.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 20 10:15:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:15:50 +0200
Subject: embed python in C++
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000@aludra.usc.edu> <9ktmkt020cq@enews1.newsguy.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108101436070.18685-100000@aludra.usc.edu>
Message-ID: <9lr62n11p83@enews4.newsguy.com>

"wkuang" <wkuang at usc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0108101436070.18685-100000 at aludra.usc.edu...
> Is there anyone know how to install boost.python. The website said most
> boost libary are implemented entirely within their header files, but the
> makefile for linux have libboost_python.a, so I assume boost.python is one
> of the exception. Basically, I havenot been able to run a single example
> successfully. Any idea? Thanks.
>
> I am using linux 7.1 with KCC 4.0e, gcc2.96 is kind of ok.

Right.  Go to boost_1_23_0\libs\python\build where you've unpacked
the sources and you'll see a file named linux_gcc.mak.  Run GNU
make, specifying that file as the makefile, and off you go.


Alex





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Aug 26 22:38:31 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:38:31 -0700
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com> <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet> <3B882E32.41643FEB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <tojcikaodsah75@news.supernews.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B882E32.41643FEB at engcorp.com...

> Lines indented twelve characters
> should have four spaces and a TAB (not three TABs).

I presume you meant a tab and four spaces, no? According
to your definition (which I snipped above), four spaces and
a tab should result in an indent of 8, not 12. BTW - I agree
with the definition of how tabs work - that's how mechanical
typewriters and mechanical teletypes worked, after all. The
full name is "tab stop," and that's exactly what they did - they
put a little metal clip in the carriage mechanism.

John Roth
>
>
> ----------------------
> Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
> peter at engcorp.com




From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 02:52:16 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:52:16 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEENILFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> ...
> 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> real and imaginary parts separately?

>>> x = 3+4j
>>> x.real
3.0
>>> x.imag
4.0
>>>

> 2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?

>>> import types
>>> isinstance(4, types.IntType)
1
>>>

Etc.

> 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
>    branch cuts?

No.

>    If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
>    implementation?

Study the actual cmath implementation -- that's the only docs there are.
cmath wasn't written by a numeric expert, alas.

>    If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the Scheme/Common
>    Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.

While you're at it, propose that they don't suffer spurious overflow or
underflow errors either <wink>.  That is, cmath is the end result of what
volunteers have made it, and indeed that's all it will ever become.  Since
C99 mandates most of the same functions, it may get a dramatic quality boost
almost for free -- provided the C vendors all get around to taking C99
seriously (BTW, I haven't compared the C99 spec to CL's, but if they differ
Python will almost certainly go with C99's, just because Python is coded in
C and cmath volunteers are historically conspicuous by absence).




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Aug 23 01:16:39 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:16:39 +1000
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EFC@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> Anyway, the issue is what is the future of jpython, and what 
> is its future
> relative to JSP (and also relative to javascript, which is 
> also developing
> into its own full language)? Also, what role should each 
> language play in a
> design, if they are used together. I suggest looking on-line 
> for computer
> magazine articles rather than relying on user's opinions 
> (including myself).
> Try to find sources that aren't focused solely on java (such as 'java
> world') or python (such as 'python world'?). No doubt jpython 
> will fill a
> specific market niche just like java. However, I've seen many 
> companies go
> belly up and I wonder about jpython. How can they compete 
> with an upcoming
> powerhouse like JSP in the long term? Java will be very time 
> consuming to

Methinks you have completely the wrong idea about Jython (note - the current
version is called Jython - JPython is a trademark of CNRI).

Jython is simply an implementation of the Python language running on the
Java VM. As such it behaves the same as CPython in most ways (however, it
uses the VM's garbage collection, and there are a few other differences). It
is not intended to be a competitor to JSP, or anything else. It can be used
quite happily in conjunction with those technologies however.

I personally am using Jython right this instant to prototype a Swing
application (well, and refreshing myself on Swing). I find it is a lot
faster to code and easier to read the prototype in Python than in Java. For
example, I don't need to worry about setting up my ActionListeners, etc ... 

   import javax.swing as swing

   def func (event):
      print 'Hello, world!'

   panel = swing.JPanel()
   panel.add(swing.JButton('OK', actionPerformed=func))

and a proxy ActionListener is automatically set up which calls the specified
func when an ActionEvent is received.

The corresponding Java is along the lines of

   import javax.swing.*;
   import java.awt.event.*;

   class MyActionListener implements ActionListener
   {
      public void actionPerformed (ActionEvent  event)
      {
         System.out.println("Hello, world!");
      }
   }

   JPanel   panel    = new JPanel();
   JButton  button   = new JButton('OK');

   button.setActionListener(new MyActionListener());

and I'm pretty sure I've forgotten a throws clause. That's 5 useful lines to
8 (using .* imports in Java), and I don't have crufty braces breaking up the
look of the code.

In addition, I don't need to compile each Python file to a Java class before
I can use it - leading to a faster prototype/test cycle. And I am guaranteed
than any changes to other Python modules will be picked up on the next run -
unlike Java where any changed files need to be recompiled - and it's likely
that some will be missed if you compile with dependencies.

Finally, I can compile all the Python code to Java .class files, package
them up in a .jar, etc - just like I can do with Java code.

When you look at it that way, you start to ask yourself why there's a need
to code it in Java at all ...

Tim Delaney



From edcjones at erols.com  Thu Aug  9 19:48:16 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:48:16 -0400
Subject: Yet another Numeric Swig core dump problem
Message-ID: <3B732140.7040609@erols.com>

The following Python / SWIG / Numeric program dumps core. I use RedHat Linux
on a PC. Python 2.1, Numeric 20.0.0, SWIG 1.1 build 883, gcc 2.96.

The output looks like:

 > testdb.py
called import_array
L11
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
 >KLTfeatures.KLTSelectGoodFeatures()
 >

The program files are:

-----------
testdb.py:

#! /usr/bin/python

import Numeric, KLTfeatures

KLTfeatures.KLTSelectGoodFeatures()

-----------
KLTfeatures.h:

#include "Python.h"
#include "/usr/include/python2.1/Numeric/arrayobject.h"

void KLTSelectGoodFeatures(void);

-----------
KLTfeatures.i:

%module KLTfeatures

%{
#include "KLTfeatures.h"
%}

%init %{
     import_array();
     printf("called import_array\n");

%}

void KLTSelectGoodFeatures(void);

-----------
KLTfeaturesmodule.c:

#include "KLTfeatures.h"

void KLTSelectGoodFeatures()
{    PyArrayObject *pao;
     int dims[2];

     dims[0] = 100;
     dims[1] = 200;
     printf("L11\n");
     pao = (PyArrayObject*) PyArray_FromDims(2, dims, PyArray_UBYTE);
     printf("L17\n");
     Py_DECREF(pao);
}

----------
How to compile:

swig -python KLTfeatures.i
gcc -c -Wall KLTfeaturesmodule.c KLTfeatures_wrap.c -I/usr/include/python2.1
ld -shared KLTfeaturesmodule.o KLTfeatures_wrap.o -o KLTfeatures.so



From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 22:42:25 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 19:42:25 -0700
Subject: New Type in Extension Module Not Accessing PyNumberMethods???
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108081842.19435ff@posting.google.com>

im trying to write a python extension type which i am basically
modeling on xxmodule.c that comes with the source.  however, for the
life of me, i cannot get the numeric operations to work (just simple
addition and subtraction here) and i cannot see what im doing wrong. 
Isnt the following what one has to do to get numeric operations???

***BEGIN CODE SNIPPET***

static PyObject*
MyObject_add(MyObject *Self, PyObject *Arg)
{
   long c_long; 
   MyObject* rv;
   if ( !PyInt_Check(Arg) )
   {
      PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "Should add a number to
MyObject");
      return NULL;
   }
   c_long = PyInt_AS_LONG(Arg);
   rv = newMyObject(Self->my_num + c_long);
   if ( rv == NULL )
       return NULL;
   return (PyObject *)rv;
}

static PyObject*
MyObject_sub(MyObject *Self, PyObject *Arg)
{
   MyObject* rv = NULL;
   if ( PyInt_Check(Arg) )
   {
      long c_long = PyInt_AS_LONG(Arg);
      rv = newMyObject(Self->my_num - c_long);
   } else if ( MyObject_Check(Arg) )
   {
      rv = newMyObject(Self->my_num - ((MyObject*)Arg)->my_num);
   } else
   {
      PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "Only a number or another
MyObject can be subtracted from a MyObject");
      return NULL;
   }
   if ( rv == NULL )
       return NULL;
   return (PyObject *)rv;
}

static PyNumberMethods MyObject_as_number = {
   (binaryfunc)MyObject_add,   
   (binaryfunc)MyObject_sub,   
   (binaryfunc)0,      
   (binaryfunc)0,               
   (binaryfunc)0,            
   (binaryfunc)0,          
   (ternaryfunc)0,          
   (unaryfunc)0,             
   (unaryfunc)0,             
   (unaryfunc)0,      
   (inquiry)0,              
   (unaryfunc)0,            
   (binaryfunc)0,             
   (binaryfunc)0,        
   (binaryfunc)0,         
   (binaryfunc)0,          
   (binaryfunc)0,          
   0,                   
   (unaryfunc)0,              
   (unaryfunc)0,             
   (unaryfunc)0,            
   (unaryfunc)0,        
   (unaryfunc)0,          
   0,                        
   0,                          
   0,                 
   0,          
   0,           
   0,                
   0,                     
   0,               
   0,                
   0,              
   0,               
};

static PyTypeObject MyObject_Type = {
   PyObject_HEAD_INIT(NULL)
   0,
   "MyObject",
   sizeof(MyObject),
   0,
   (destructor)   MyObject_dealloc,
   (printfunc)    MyObject_print,
   (getattrfunc)  MyObject_getattr,
   (setattrfunc)  MyObject_setattr,
   (cmpfunc)      MyObject_compare,
   (reprfunc)     0,
   &MyObject_as_number,
   0,
   0,
   (hashfunc)     0,
   (ternaryfunc)  0,
   (reprfunc)     0,
};

***END CODE SNIPPET***

And in my python session i get the following error:

C:\test>python
ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from MyObject_Module import *
>>> foo = MyObject(9)
>>> print foo
9
>>> foo + 8
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unsupported operand types for +
>>>

im posting the full module (MyObject_Module.c) below.  Any help is
appreciated greatly.

Thanks very much,

Doug
doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com


***********MyObject_Module.c***********

#include "Python.h"

static PyObject *ErrorObject;

typedef struct {
   PyObject_HEAD
   long my_num;
   PyObject *x_attr;          
} MyObject;

staticforward PyTypeObject MyObject_Type;

#define MyObject_Check(v) ((v)->ob_type == &MyObject_Type)

static MyObject *
newMyObject(const long arg_int)
{
   MyObject *Self;
   Self = PyObject_New(MyObject, &MyObject_Type);
   if (Self == NULL)
      return NULL;
   Self->my_num = arg_int;
   Self->x_attr = NULL;
   return Self;
}

static void
MyObject_dealloc(MyObject *Self)
{
   Py_XDECREF(Self->x_attr);
   PyObject_Del(Self);
}

static int
MyObject_print(MyObject *Self, FILE *fp, int flags)
     /* flags -- not used but required by interface */
{
   flags;
   fprintf(fp, "%d", Self->my_num);
   return 0;
}

static PyObject *
MyObject_demo(MyObject *Self, PyObject *Args)
{
   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(Args, ":demo"))
      return NULL;
   Py_INCREF(Py_None);
   return Py_None;
}

static PyMethodDef MyObject_methods[] = {
   {"demo",  (PyCFunction)MyObject_demo,   METH_VARARGS},
   {NULL,   NULL} 
};

static PyObject *
MyObject_getattr(MyObject *self, char *name)
{
   if (self->x_attr != NULL) {
      PyObject *v = PyDict_GetItemString(self->x_attr, name);
      if (v != NULL) {
         Py_INCREF(v);
         return v;
      }
   }
   return Py_FindMethod(MyObject_methods, (PyObject *)self, name);
}

static int
MyObject_setattr(MyObject *self, char *name, PyObject *v)
{
   if (self->x_attr == NULL) {
      self->x_attr = PyDict_New();
      if (self->x_attr == NULL)
         return -1;
   }
   if (v == NULL) {
      int rv = PyDict_DelItemString(self->x_attr, name);
      if (rv < 0)
         PyErr_SetString(PyExc_AttributeError,
                 "delete non-existing attribute");
      return rv;
   }
   else
      return PyDict_SetItemString(self->x_attr, name, v);
}

static int
MyObject_compare(MyObject *Right, MyObject *Left)
{
   return ( Right->my_num < Left->my_num ) ? -1 :
          (( Right->my_num > Left->my_num ) ? +1 : 0);
}

static PyObject*
MyObject_add(MyObject *Self, PyObject *Arg)
{
   long c_long; 
   MyObject* rv;
   if ( !PyInt_Check(Arg) )
   {
      PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "Should add a number to
MyObject");
      return NULL;
   }
   c_long = PyInt_AS_LONG(Arg);
   rv = newMyObject(Self->my_num + c_long);
   if ( rv == NULL )
       return NULL;
   return (PyObject *)rv;
}

static PyObject*
MyObject_sub(MyObject *Self, PyObject *Arg)
{
   MyObject* rv = NULL;
   if ( PyInt_Check(Arg) )
   {
      long c_long = PyInt_AS_LONG(Arg);
      rv = newMyObject(Self->my_num - c_long);
   } else if ( MyObject_Check(Arg) )
   {
      rv = newMyObject(Self->my_num - ((MyObject*)Arg)->my_num);
   } else
   {
      PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "Only a number or another
MyObject can be subtracted from a MyObject");
      return NULL;
   }
   if ( rv == NULL )
       return NULL;
   return (PyObject *)rv;
}

static PyNumberMethods MyObject_as_number = {
   (binaryfunc)MyObject_add,   
   (binaryfunc)MyObject_sub,   
   (binaryfunc)0,      
   (binaryfunc)0,               
   (binaryfunc)0,            
   (binaryfunc)0,          
   (ternaryfunc)0,          
   (unaryfunc)0,             
   (unaryfunc)0,             
   (unaryfunc)0,      
   (inquiry)0,              
   (unaryfunc)0,            
   (binaryfunc)0,             
   (binaryfunc)0,        
   (binaryfunc)0,         
   (binaryfunc)0,          
   (binaryfunc)0,          
   0,                   
   (unaryfunc)0,              
   (unaryfunc)0,             
   (unaryfunc)0,            
   (unaryfunc)0,        
   (unaryfunc)0,          
   0,                        
   0,                          
   0,                 
   0,          
   0,           
   0,                
   0,                     
   0,               
   0,                
   0,              
   0,               
};

static PyTypeObject MyObject_Type = {
   PyObject_HEAD_INIT(NULL)
   0,
   "MyObject",
   sizeof(MyObject),
   0,
   (destructor)   MyObject_dealloc,
   (printfunc)    MyObject_print,
   (getattrfunc)  MyObject_getattr,
   (setattrfunc)  MyObject_setattr,
   (cmpfunc)      MyObject_compare,
   (reprfunc)     0,
   &MyObject_as_number,
   0,
   0,
   (hashfunc)     0,
   (ternaryfunc)  0,
   (reprfunc)     0,
};

static PyObject *
MyObject_Module_new(PyObject *Self, PyObject *Args)
{
   MyObject *rv;

   long arg_long;
   if ( PyArg_ParseTuple(Args, "l:MyObject", &arg_long) )
      rv = newMyObject(arg_long);
   else if ( PyArg_ParseTuple(Args, ":MyObject") )
   {
      PyErr_Clear();
      rv = newMyObject(0);
   }
   else
      return NULL;

   if ( rv == NULL )
       return NULL;
   return (PyObject *)rv;
}

static PyMethodDef MyObject_Module_methods[] = {
   {"MyObject",    MyObject_Module_new,     METH_VARARGS},
   {NULL,          NULL}      /* sentinel */
};

#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "C"
#endif
 __declspec(dllexport)
void initMyObject_Module(void)
{
   PyObject *m, *d;
   MyObject_Type.ob_type = &PyType_Type;
   m = Py_InitModule("MyObject_Module", MyObject_Module_methods);
   d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
   ErrorObject = PyErr_NewException("MyObject_Module.error", NULL,
NULL);
   PyDict_SetItemString(d, "error", ErrorObject);
}


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 12:45:57 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:45:57 -0700
Subject: base classes
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000@spel21.nada.kth.se> <9m0ccg$hqp$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <mailman.998522272.32641.python-list@python.org> <9m2ct9$1hej$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
Message-ID: <3B853345.61AF64F1@ccvcorp.com>


Pete wrote:

> Oh, the problem was if I use two classes and the first is a standard
> python's class and second is written by me I need to use distinct members in
> my class. Otherwise some strange things may occur...

This is definately true.  It is most likely true for *every* language which
allows multiple inheritance.

I suppose you *could* do a really ugly workaround like:

>>> class A:
...  def foo(self):
...   print "foo!"
...
>>> class B:
...  def foo(self):
...   print "bar!"
...
>>> class C(A,B):
...  pass
...
>>> c = C()
>>> B.foo(c)
bar!
>>> A.foo(c)
foo!

But then, the whole point of inheritance is that you shouldn't have to care
about whether a method is in a base class, or *which* base class it's in.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From cjw at sympatico.ca  Tue Aug 14 15:30:57 2001
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:30:57 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org> <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B797C71.A8FD3B80@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010814/5d7247eb/attachment.html>

From jkn at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 03:58:50 2001
From: jkn at nicorp.f9.co.uk (Jon Nicoll)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:58:50 -0700
Subject: low level device control
References: <3B83C1A8.4010608@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <8351bb33.0108222358.59e32b3b@posting.google.com>

Hi Greg
    The answers to your questions depend on what Hardware and
Operating System you are using.

- are you saying that you will have a serial device to be able to read
PIN1/PIN2 and to write to PIN3/PIN4? from your description of the
problem it doesn't sound like a match for a 'standard' RS-232 serial
port (ie. COM1:, COM2 etc. on the PC), but you will know more about
this than I.

If this is right, then your problem becomes - how to control a serial
device (COM port) from Python.

Then if you are running under Windows, look at Mark Hammond's
Win32Comm stuff (built into he ActiveState distribution of Python).
There is also an alternative 'Serial' class - look in the Vaults of
Parnassus website.

Under Unix ... I'm not so clued up - sorry.

If you can't use the standard COM ports, then you may need to write a
custom driver/interface to whatever Serial device you are using.
Again, more specifics would be useful.

    HTH
    jon Nicoll


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 11:24:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:24:51 +0200
Subject: __del__ ignores exception in 2.1?
References: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <9ljgdr323oi@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Vassilis Virvilis" <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> wrote in message
news:3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E at iit.demokritos.gr...
    ...
> Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'badsnake' is not defined" in
> <method bar.__del__ of bar instance at 0x80cfa1c> ignored
> It continues
>
> Why? Shouldn't the exception make python abort?

Python prefers to ignores exceptions (possibly with a warning)
in cases where they couldn't be handled, such as in __del__
special-methods, rather than aborting (as is more typical in
C++, e.g. when an exception is raised while another one is
propagating).  This isn't new in 2.1 -- it's been that way for
quite a while.


Alex





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 23 17:22:27 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 17:22:27 -0400
Subject: sys._exit()
References: <mailman.998520634.27371.python-list@python.org> <998544414.810105@yabetcha.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <uk7zuqxnw.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> Well, note that the fork runs in a separate address space and can't
> modify the parent's state.

No, but system resources like file handles are just copied literally
into the client's address space (not 'dup'd).  So if the client were
to close a common handle, the parent's handle would then become
invalid.  (Thus the typical create pipe, fork, and then have
parent/child carefully close opposite ends of the pipe handles before
using the other set of handles).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug  4 06:34:09 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:34:09 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Q: Code Review Checklist?
In-Reply-To: <uqPa7.23508$U27.696515@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108041415360.27006-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Albert Brandl wrote:

>Roman Suzi wrote:
>
>> O! Just put motivating subject and you will have a long-long checklist. If
>> you just cite some items here from the original - you will get more in
>> return ;-)
>
>Have a look at http://cs.wwc.edu/~aabyan/435/PSP/CodeReviewGuide.html
>There you find the checklist used in Humphrey's book "A Discipline for
>Software Engineering".

Yes, already found that link. PSP seem to be some kind of personal
SEI CMM. AFAIK, there is only one or two companies which are toplevel
in CMM. IIRC, Motorola is/was one of them.

>Some items are irrelevant - in Python, you don't need to check whether
>pointers are initialized NULL, only deleted after new and always deleted
>after use if new.
>
>OTOH, the checklist requires you to e.g. test your logic operators:
>- Verify the proper user of ==, =, || etc
>- check every logic function for proper ()
>This would have caught your "<" vs ">" error.

No more than the statement: check your program logic.

>> Personally, I think that Python programmers do their checks while they
>> write code, because in Python you do not write that many LOC.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean. Do you suggest that Python is only
>used for tasks so simple that it's impossible to get it wrong? Or
>does "not that many LOC" mean that you split up your code in
>many little methods that can easily be verified?

I mean that in higher-level language errors tend to be logic ones, because
parts are larger and there is no need to worry about lists, hashes or to
reimplement them (which adds errors).

Also Python program of 100 lines is capable of doing what C program does
in 500 Lines Of Code. Some authors argue that even best programmers make 1
error per 7-10 LOC (I can't believe that, though. Maybe KLOC was meant).

Maybe I program too slowly, but I do not make so many errors.
Those error with "<" vs. ">=" was exception which is why I remembered
it ;-)

Usually my Python programs run first time correctly even syntactically.
(This still amazes me).

>> There is
>> Python Style Guide which will teach you how to write Pythonic Python
>> programs. Python idioms also help to keep programs readable. Applying
>> PyChecker could find some problems...
>
>In the PSP, there is a item called Standards: "Ensure that the code
>conforms to the coding standards". You are right: The Python Style
>Guide is a good starting point to define the standards.
>
>As for PyChecker: I've been using this tool for some time and like it very
>much. Unfortunately, automated tools can only detect certain classes of
>errors.

There is an interesting technique to estimate how many errors the program
has: add 10 errors to somebody's program and let it be debugged. If he
found 15 errors of which 5 were artificial, then it is possible to
estimate that there are other 15 errors still there.

>A general checklist should contain all kinds of error that are specific to
>Python and hard to find. It takes e.g. much time to realize that two
>variables reference the same object. It would be interesting to know
>if such a list is already "out there", but the response has not yet been
>overwhelming...
>
>> So, I can't think of any checklist to review my own code...
>
>Building a personal checklist is relatively easy: The next time you sit
>down and start the interpreter, note every error you stumble across.
>You'll soon see some patterns emerge, .e.g. spelling errors, infinite
>loops, off-by-one-errors, no "self" variable in the head of a function,
>logic errors, etc. - at least that's what I've experienced. Extract these
>patterns into a checklist and correct all problems you find _before_
>you start the interpreter.

But it is so much faster to let interpreter tell me syntactic errors and
obvious errors first. Then more accurate program checking could start.
Some parts of the program I even prefer to check by mathematical means.
For example, proper tarification when different tariff intervals are
crossed. The code is not large but it needed more than usual checks
because of it's importance.

Also, many errors occur when environment is not up to program's
expectation. I had several such mishaps this year, because some parameters
were changed without notice.

>        Best regards,
>
>                Albert
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 04, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Experience: a name everyone gives to his mistakes." _/




From jim.vickroy at noaa.gov  Mon Aug 27 11:28:14 2001
From: jim.vickroy at noaa.gov (jim.vickroy)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:28:14 -0600
Subject: MS Windows COM error - access denied
References: <3B8A5D9B.D4F80131@noaa.gov> <3b8a607b.7966140@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3B8A670E.C38F139C@noaa.gov>

Thanks for the suggestions.

I tried dcomcnfg.exe, but that did not fix the "access denied" error;
perhaps because I'm not using DCOM at this point.  For the present, all
this is happening on a single machine.

As for security settings and access permissions, that sounds promising.
I poked around a little in the Component Services interface under
Administrative Tools, but I really do not know what I'm doing or even if
this is the right place.  Any suggestions on how I can come up to speed
on these types of issues?

Thanks again.


Gerson Kurz wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:47:55 -0600, "jim.vickroy"
> <jim.vickroy at noaa.gov> wrote:
>
> >
> >the following exception is raised:
> >
> >        com_error: (-2147024891, 'Access is denied.', None, None)
> >
> >Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
> Have you started dcomcnfg.exe (its part of W2K) and played with the
> security settings ? Like default access permissions and such.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 04:43:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:43:32 +0200
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net> <etdu1zoddw4.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <GU_a7.11610$5j7.678446@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9kj15i02gdm@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:GU_a7.11610$5j7.678446 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> "Alex" <new_name at mit.edu> wrote in message
> news:etdu1zoddw4.fsf at lola-granola.mit.edu...
    ...
> >         if type(initarg) == types.StringType:
> >             self.Constructor1(initarg)
>
> What were you saying last week about people who used this construct
needing
> to be stood up against the wall and shot (I'm paraphrasing a little here)?

I think you may be confusing the Alex who writes from mit.edu with the
Alex Martelli who writes from yahoo.com.  Despite persistent rumors, we're
really two distinct people, honest!

That being said -- if there's a place anywhere for typetests, it's probably
when trying to recode in Python an existing C++ or Java program that
relies on function overloading by argument-types.  Much in the same
spirit as my "assign and test" cookbook recipe:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061
you can't "natively" assign-and-test in Python, since = is not an
operator, but Python's powerful enough to let you use 'alien' idioms
with little conceptual overhead, in many cases.

Of course, type tests should still be coded better than type(a)==type(b)
(or even the preferable type(a) is type(b)...:-).  At the very least, one
would use isinstance -- at some point in the type/class unification story,
isinstance may let you use subtypes of (e.g.) strings where equality or
identity of typeobjects would still trip you up.  Probably better is however
a variation of 'accurate look-before-you-leap', see my recipe at:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52291
although, curiously, nobody was interested enough to rate it, even
unfavourably, in the 4+ months it's been out there.  It's admittedly
rather a lot of work, but the point is, getting some sort of operational
definition of what it means, for overloading purposes, for an argument
to "BE-A" string (or whatever) by determining what operations the
argument must support.

The Pythonic way is not to overload by type: use factory functions
rather than the bare constructor, and distinguish them by name.  But
sometimes such recoding is too vast, it takes you too far from the
original (e.g.) C++ code that you're trying to recast into Python (for
didactical purposes or whatever).  In this case, SOME sorts of type
tests may be more of a help than a hindrance -- but it's unlikely that
type(a)==type(b) can ever qualify (maybe a lintlike utility could
warn against those, suggesting at least isinstance as alternative:-).


Alex





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 09:28:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:28:30 -0500
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org>
        <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15237.1278.534015.958197@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> ain't-nothin'-obvious-about-gc-strategies-ly y'rs  - tim

    Paul> That's for sure--there's a large literature of GC research that
    Paul> goes back for decades.  It's not appropriate to ignore everything
    Paul> that's been tried.

I don't think anything's been ignored.  It's just that nothing made it into
the language beyond the Neil's cyclical GC stuff.

Skip



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:39:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:39:59 +0200
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org> <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com> <9ldakm01ioq@enews3.newsguy.com> <_lGe7.43578$O8.6622552@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lhb6a01spe@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Peter Caven" <p.caven at ieee.org> wrote in message
news:_lGe7.43578$O8.6622552 at news1.busy1.on.home.com...
> Thanks Alex,

You're welcome!


> I sometimes forget how completely dynamic Python actually is!

...or "was" (although it will be for a while longer) -- performance
issues may well dictate a gradual (and hopefully only partial) loss
of some of that little-used dynamism, as forcefully argued by
Guido (and a few supporters) in a couple of recent threads.  At
some point there will be classes you cannot change, and that will
give higher performance when you explicitly tell the compiler
those classes are not dynamic (or maybe, it's still possible, the
non-dynamic will be the default, and you'll explicitly have to ask
for backwards-compatible dynamism instead).

Interesting times...!-)


Alex





From charles at a3a.com.br  Thu Aug 30 09:23:02 2001
From: charles at a3a.com.br (Charles)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:23:02 -0400
Subject: Python GUI
In-Reply-To: <9ml98q0234u@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <slrn.pl.9os3n2.gsc.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <9ml98q0234u@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <01083009230200.21251@magneto>

Hi 

What's the best (more complete) GUI library to use with python ?
Tkinter ? wxPython ? PyKDE ? ...

Thanks !




From angelina1974 at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 05:45:30 2001
From: angelina1974 at hotmail.com (Angelina Jolie)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 09:45:30 GMT
Subject: Angelina Jolie NAKED! Hacked and Ripped!
Message-ID: <9magfq$chk$5571@news.castel.nl>

Pics from here, right from PAY TV!
http://angelina.redlights.tv

Also: Silvia Saint http://silvia.redlights.tv


From guido at python.org  Fri Aug 31 17:28:47 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:28:47 GMT
Subject: AttributeError: last_traceback
References: <3B8FFD16.E388525E@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <cpsne7or5w.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Curtis Jensen <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> writes:

> I have a section of code similar to this:
> 
>     try:
>       exec(  <SOMETHING> )
>     except:
>       print traceback.print_exc()
> 
> This is so exceptions don't bring down my program.  And some errors, I
> can ignor.  However, some errors I need to debug.  For the errors I want
> to debug, I'd like to uses "pdb.pm()"  however, I always get
> "AttributeError: last_traceback" with "pdb.pm()"  Understandably, this
> is because noe exception was loged, because I caught it.  
> 
> Is there a way I can catch exceptions and still use pdb.pm()?

  import sys
  try:
      exec <SOMETHING>
  except:
      sys.last_type, sys.last_value, sys.last_traceback = sys.exc_info()
      print traceback.print_exc()

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sat Aug 11 18:22:01 2001
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:22:01 +0100
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <3B75B009.1A42DA3E@ndh.net>

Hello Lloyd

Lloyd Goldwasser schrieb:
> As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
> others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation.  'Way
> back when I was using Objective-C -- and many other OO languages seem to
> have a similar perspective -- there was a lot of emphasis on the ability
> to keep the contents of objects independent of outside influence except
> via well-delineated mechanisms.  Security and reliability were cited as
> major benefits of this approach: every object knew exactly what the
> outside world was going to see and exactly how the outside world might
> act to change its state. [...]

There was a nice posting/thread on this some time ago:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ken+seehof+encapsulation&hl=en&group=comp.lang.python.*&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=39491494.671DC3D9%40sightreader.com

Stefan


From smt at pacific.net.hk  Fri Aug 31 04:53:41 2001
From: smt at pacific.net.hk (Kenneth Tsang)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:53:41 +0800
Subject: Thanks Python
References: <a74b343d.0108300324.58424f4@posting.google.com> <3b8e7183.15496437@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9mnje8$bdj$1@hfc.pacific.net.hk>

And the force be with you

--

--
Kenneth Tsang
email: smt at pacific.net.hk tel: +852 9468 4772
"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8e7183.15496437 at news.t-online.de...
> On 30 Aug 2001 04:24:50 -0700, ws at dohao.org (Du Wellsun) wrote:
>
> >Python is very nice! I like it.
> me to :)
>
> And now to something completely different: Where can I get the python
> shirts in germany? Does anybody import them (no pun intended)?




From piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl  Fri Aug  3 06:21:59 2001
From: piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:21:59 +0200
Subject: Is this the *right* way of exception handling?
Message-ID: <9kdr21$rao$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>

Hi

I wonder if the way I use exceptions is the right way or very problematic
one (anyway it works of course).

I have one class and fill it with a data. If data are wrong i raise my
exception:

class A:
  my_exception='my_exception'
.......
  def f(self,a):
     if a !=0
	raise my_exception, 'a must be 0'

def f1()
...
  try:
    x=A()
     x.f(1)
  except A.my_exception, val:
    print 'wow, eror', val
    #!!now, what to do here, i want to stop my program, but should clean
     something (close files etc) before, so sys.exit() is not a good idea
     another raise?

def main():
...
  use some resources, open files etc

  f1()

  close resources, files etc

Thanx
Piotr Legiecki


From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 19 01:38:58 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 06:38:58 +0100
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com> <7x66bkjzbj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9loc7g$dmm$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Paul Rubin:
>  It's kind of a strange idea though, that
>Python has built-in long ints but I have to use an add-on package if I
>want to do simple operations like find out how large a number is.

Now my chance to ask a dumb question.  When do you need to know
how many bits are used for a number?  I admit to never needing
that functionality, but then again, I've almost never used long
integers in real code.

Though the very first Python code I wrote was something like:

primes = (2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29)

def godel(s):
  n = 1L
  for i in range(len(s)):
    n = n * long(primes[i])**(ord(s[i])-ord("A")+1)
  return n

so "CAB" == 600L
"ANDREW" == 65468565968763894209893994715140738242806825295981758750L

(because of the fundamential theorem of algebra -- prime factorization
is unique -- this number can be turned back into its original value).

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






From john at cs.york.ac.uk  Fri Aug 24 12:58:53 2001
From: john at cs.york.ac.uk (john at cs.york.ac.uk)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 16:58:53 GMT
Subject: ImportError: No module named _tkinter
Message-ID: <998672333.20565846@cs.york.ac.uk>

I've just successfully compiled Python 2.2a1 from source on
a Linux system, and got it to work with Tcl/Tk 8.3.3 without
any problem. When I do the same on a Solaris 2.6 system - the
difference being the location of the various include and library
files, I get the (well-known) messages:

$ python calc1.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "calc1.py", line 1, in ?
    from Tkinter import *
  File "/usr/local/python-2.2a1/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
$

I've stared at the alterations to the copy of the text from the
Setup file I've made in Setup.local, and can't see my mistake. I've
read the Python FAQ, and google(-grouped) for a similar problem
encountered by someone else. I've tested my installation of Tcl/Tk
and it's fine. I've tried an earlier version of Tcl/Tk I had
installed, and Python fails with the same error messages.

If all else fails, how can one debug the Python Tkinter configuration?

John A. Murdie


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 09:46:33 2001
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:46:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

In article <9m2sij$1f8s$1 at ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>, juanv at posta.unizar.es 
(Juan Vali?o) wrote:

> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
> v[5 # 2]
> Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]

I don't think # is right, because it's already used for comments.  But 
perhaps :][: would do the trick.  So it'd be v[5 :][: 2].  It's more 
complex, but looks nice.  And doesn't introduce any new punctuation into 
the language.  Shall I start on the PEP?

> v[5 # -2]
> Extract 2 elements ending at (but not including the) 5: [ v[3], v[4] ].
> Equivalent to v[5-2:5]

I'm not sure the the :][: operator would be appropriate here, but maybe 
the variation v[:5 ][ -2:] could be made to work.

> I think that this little syntactic sugar allows programs more compact 
> and
> readable. Also, I had less "start and end point paranoias". I suppose 
> that
> the implementation is easy and the current programs are not affected at 
> all.

Would my suggestions be much harder to implement?


                  Graham


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Aug 25 16:29:30 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:29:30 -0700
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
References: <jGTh7.21$Ks5.40555@nnrp2.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <9m923o$vcue$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

??
Start|Run|cmd should get you to a shell...

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"john anon" <notta at chance.net> wrote in message
news:jGTh7.21$Ks5.40555 at nnrp2.sbc.net...
> at the risk of repeating an old question
> (I looked -- really -- I looked)
>
> if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
> from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?
>
>



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug 16 11:17:18 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 17:17:18 +0200
Subject: Extension modules and SIGINT
References: <mailman.997970244.19683.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4n150nif5.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig) writes:

> I have an extension module that does a _lot_ of math with
> PyLongObjects.  I'm pretty sure that I'm catching every instance where
> a failure could occur in a PyNumber call, but I still get bus errors
> when I send a keyboard interrupt.
> 
> Is this normal, or have I made a mistake?

You made a mistake, probably failing to check for a null pointer. If a
sigint occurs, functions may randomly return NULL, and you need to
check every single one.

I recommend to use a debugger to analyse where it crashes.

Regards,
Martin



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Sat Aug 11 13:57:30 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:57:30 +0200
Subject: popen3 and ssh
References: <3B73E5C6.2080200@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <9l3rc4$2ago$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

Sorry, I've no answer to your question but I'm looking for a way to send a
shell command and retrieve the result to a ssh server (you already
succeeded).
Can you please tell how ?

TIA

--Gillou glenfant at bigfoot.com

Warning: the "sender" of this message is a "no spam" address.

"Michele Campeotto" <micampe at f2s.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
3B73E5C6.2080200 at f2s.com...
>    Hi, I'm trying to connect to CVS via SSH from a Python script, it
> works fine when used over a network, but on a local machine it seems
> that SSH doesn't get the password that I'm sending... anybody can give
> an hint?
>
>    cvs_input.write(self.password + '\n')
>
>    (cvs_input comes from the popen3 call)
>
> --
>    Michele - www.moleskine.f2s.com
>




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Wed Aug 15 17:07:18 2001
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:07:18 -0600
Subject: Which is the best way...
Message-ID: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F27DBB0@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Matthew D. Wood [mailto:woodm at equire.com]
> 
> I have an interesting code-correctness question.  I firmly believe in 
> doing things 'The Right Way' and I'm not sure which of these 
> 3 blocks is 
> better.  So, if you code-guru's could help me out I would definitely 
> appreciate it.
> 
[snip]
> 
> # Works, but how much overhead is there in the slicing of the 
> range list?
> def first_non_ordered_2 (my_list) :
>        for index in range(len(my_list))[:-1] :
>                if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
>                        return index + 1
> 
>        else :
>                return None

you could always do range( len(my_list)-1 ), and you don't really need
the else:

 def first_non_ordered_2 (my_list) :
     for index in range( len(my_list)-1 ):
         if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
              return index + 1
     return None

-- bjorn



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Aug 22 01:03:40 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:03:40 -0000
Subject: asynchronous callback
References: <mailman.998411251.5377.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <998456619.231561@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Silvio Arcangeli <sarcangeli at montrouge.sema.slb.com>:
...
| In my case the callback function should actually be a Python method.
| So I added a C callback function to my extension module: it just converts 
| the parameters, and then calls the Python method.
...
| Anyway, the C function correctly retrieves the Python method from the 
| dictionary, but then when it calls it it gets blocked.
| I think that this is probably due to the fact that the C callback function 
| is called asynchronously (that means it runs in a different thread from the 
| interpreter's one).
| How can I make it work?

I don't know if I would have expected it to block, but at any rate,
any healthy callback needs to acquire the interpreter's lock before
proceeding.  Here's how mine do it -

   /* Before the thread starts, get a thread state object for it. */
   PyEval_InitThreads();
   tstate = PyThreadState_New(PyThreadState_Get()->interp);

   /* From that thread, about to call from C into Python. */
   PyEval_AcquireThread(tstate);

   /* After Python function returns. */
   PyEval_ReleaseThread(tstate);

Meanwhile, of course functions that call out to C for any length
of time must release the interpreter lock first, so your callback
can get it!  Usually done with macros, Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.

I hope that's right, it has been a while since I had to wrestle
with this.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From cce at clarkevans.com  Sun Aug 12 21:19:30 2001
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:19:30 -0400
Subject: to implement a cache: is there a thread safe map?
Message-ID: <20010812211930.A16527@doublegemini.com>

Pardon my ignorance here.  I'm rather new to threading
and I have the following situation:

  1.  I have multiple threads.

  2.  I have several constructs ("objects") which
      are very common, costly to construct,
      and should be kept around for a while.

  3.  These objects are static once created, they
      are tuples of strings).  

  4.  The objects are used frequently, and thus
      will be requested all of the time.

  5.  I can't predict what combination of objects
      will be required at compile time.

To be a bit more pragmatic, suppose I have the
following function... 

   def make(args):
       """
           A function that constructs a complicated
           object based on its parameters.
           The object constructed is a constant
           (non-mutable) object, and the parameters
           are also non-mutable.
           
           This is a brain-dead version.
       """
       return args

How could I go about building a "generic", thread-safe
cashe object around the following function.  Thus, I'd 
like...

   cashedmake = CashedFunction(make)
   obj = cashedmake('a')


class CashedFunction:
    def __init__(self,func):
         self.func  = func
         self.cache = {}
    def __call__(self,arg):
         ret = self.cache.get(arg,None)
         if not(res):
             ret = self.func(arg)
             self.cashe[arg] = ret
         return ret

My problem: (Yes, the above probably isn't right)

   1.  How do I make something like the above thread
       safe?  I would add:

           self.lock = threading.Lock()
     
       to the __init__ and then surround
      
           self.lock.acquire()
           ret = self.func(arg)
           self.cashe[arg] = ret
           self.loc.release()

       Is this right?

       a)  It seems that if two threads 
           hit the lock.acquire() at the
           same time, I'll construct the
           object twice... is there a way
           around this?

       b)  It looks like the map could be
           altered mid "get", does the entire
           function need to be locked, or
           can I just lock the mutating portion?

       c)  What other concerns am I missing?

   2.  Dropping items from the cashe.

       I suppose I could make my entries in the
       map (created,value) to store the time 
       it was created, periodically sweeping 
       through the map to clear entries.

       Would a weak reference help here?

       Would it be better to keep another map
       with the last time that a given object
       was accessed?

       
In short... what is the interaction of a map
object and multiple threads.  What do I have
to be concerned about?

Thank you so much,

Clark        









       









From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Mon Aug 27 17:22:24 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:22:24 -0500
Subject: Real.py  where is it?
References: <mailman.998944859.10075.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tolejohqmt5329@corp.supernews.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998944859.10075.python-list at python.org...
> [Maan M. Hamze]
> > All web links to this module are broken.  Where can I find it?
>
> This has sure become a popular module lately!
Yes a collectible - a rare scarce resource :)  Let us hope it works with the
Python complex number implementation in what I am cooking.
> In the case of Jurgen's module, Keith Briggs saved a copy, linked to from:
>
>     http://www.btexact.com/people/briggsk2/XR.html
>    Look for "python code by Jurjen N.E. Bos".

Thanks!  A nice site that I was not aware of.
Maan




From peter.sundling at telia.com  Thu Aug 23 18:16:49 2001
From: peter.sundling at telia.com (Peter Sundling)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:16:49 GMT
Subject: I dont get this!
Message-ID: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>

Help! :)
I have been programming in python for some time now, and today i
found a strange bug in my code i cant get rid of...

Here is a code snippet where something is wrong somewhere:


def check_hilo(i):
	if value[i] < low[i]:
		return 1

	if value[i] > high[i]:
		return 2

	return 0


...Simple, huh? I have never had any trouble with something like this
before.
The thing is that this procedure always returns 1.
I have tried to rewrite this little source code a couple of times,
in many different ways, and it still returns 1!

If i compare value to high before i compare it to low, it still returns
1.

As an example: value[i] was 103, low[i] was 25 and high[i] was 35.
As far as i know, 103 is greater than 25. But python seemes to disagree
on that...
( if i start the python alone and writes
print 103 < 25
it responds 0, But what the hell is wrong now??)


/Peter
(The dumbest programmer on the face of the earth)


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Aug  9 11:44:31 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:44:31 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: newbie-ness upgrade woes
In-Reply-To: <90F914D54nemirCUTTHIShotmaild@61.9.128.12>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108091943090.20719-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, nemir wrote:
> I hope you can forgive the newbie-ness of all this,  but I have decided to
> run with Python as my learn first programming language now that I have been
> told to run a redhat apache server.

   You are welcome!

> Lemme give you the rundown:
>
> Installed an out of the box RedHat 7.1 server (WITHOUT a GUI) which comes
> with Python 1.5.2.  A little outdated I thought, so I determined that now
> the rest of the box is stable I will upgrade.  I go get the Python-
> 2.1.1.tgz file,  run
>
> tar xfvz Python-2.1.1.tgz
>
> And it all uncompressed great.
>
> I CD to the new Python-2.1.1 directory.
>
> I try to run
>
> python setup.py install

   Instead, run

./configure
make

   Then go root and run

make install

   Hope this helps.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug 27 15:14:54 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:14:54 -0700
Subject: LaTeX class howto.cls?
References: <c5lbot0ui71f3p720kersloi23cba546ml@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B8A9C2E.4C4961BD@home.net>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> I recently fetched the mimelib Python module.  I went to print out the
> documentation, and decided the LaTeX version would be the most convenient
> way.

Your question has been answered, but unless you are planning on editing
the document, you are probably better off with the pdf or postscipt
version (This from a big LaTeX user, who has also edited some of the
Python docs)

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Aug  1 18:49:12 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 22:49:12 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth <brueckd at tbye.com>:
...
| Right. My assertion is that this causes more problems than it solves
| because you seldom know your "intent" in that much detail, much less your
| future intent. Seems like ultra strict type checking might work well in
| cases where you have very precise requirements and once built, your
| software won't be changing any time soon (a la space shuttle software).
| Most programs don't fall into that category.

OK, another example, happy to be able to accommodate your request.
>From today's comp.lang.python, someone asks, how come my program
doesn't work?  His case seems a ways away from space station control.

His point of failure looks like this,

    arg = parse(data)
    if arg[0] == 'privmsg':
      ...
    elif arg[0] == 'ping':
      ...

And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
of figure it out himself.

Here's his code:
 -----
    def parse(self, data):
        if string.find(string.lower(data), 'privmsg') >= 0:
            garbage,middle,msg = string.split(data,':')
            sender,cmd,rcpt = string.split(middle)
            arg=[string.lower(cmd),sender,rcpt,msg]
            return arg
        elif string.find(string.lower(data), 'ping') >= 0:
             sender,cmd,pong = string.split(data[1:])
             arg=[string.lower(cmd),sender,pong]
             return arg
 -----

And similar in OCaml:
 -----
let ulfind str data =
  try
    let n = Str.search_forward (Str.regexp_case_fold str) data 0 in
      true
  with Not_found ->
    false

let parse data =
  if ulfind "privmsg" data then
    let wl = Str.split (Str.regexp ":") data in
      match wl with
        garbage::middle::msg::[] ->
          let wl = Str.split (Str.regexp "[ \t]+") middle in
            begin
            match wl with
              sender::cmd::rcpt::[] ->
                Some [(String.lowercase cmd); sender; rcpt; msg]
            | _ -> None
            end
      | _ -> None
  else if ulfind "ping" data then
    let wl = Str.split (Str.regexp "[ \t]+") (Str.string_after data 1) in
      match wl with
        sender::cmd::pong::[] ->
          Some [(String.lowercase cmd); sender; pong]
      | _ -> None
  else
    None

let main () =
  let data = begin print_string "parse me: "; read_line () end in
    let argl = parse data in
      match argl with
        Some [] -> Printf.printf "Empty\n"
      | None -> Printf.printf "unexpected input \"%s\"\n" data
      | Some (cmd::argtl) -> Printf.printf "Command \"%s\"\n" cmd
;;
main ()
 -----

It's probably a suboptimal expression of the idea, as I am very
new to OCaml.  OCaml's type checking catches his error - if I
leave the last "else" out of the parse function, the compiler
notices the void return, in a context where void is not accounted
for.

I used a None/Some option for the return just to show how that
would work, but that one bit of explicit typing isn't really
necessary, an empty list or an exception would have worked fine.
That's a complete, working program.

Hope you find this useful.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Mon Aug  6 16:20:36 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:20:36 -0400
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <9kmu1b$5e404$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Ron Johnson wrote:

> Say I have the strings:
>   'foo   bar      snafu'
>   'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'
> 
> Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the
> duplicate spaces out so that the files look like:
>   'foo bar snafu'
>   'fiddle faddle pip pop'

say the string is s, then you could proceed as follows:

o = ''
s = string.split(s,' ')
for i in s:
  if (i != ' '):
    o = o + i + ' '

This code segment will give you the final required ouput in o


--
Rajarshi Guha


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug 15 23:25:53 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Debugging Multi-Threaded Python Programs
In-Reply-To: <270c68fe.0108151628.42f78be7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108152012160.17698-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 15 Aug 2001, Alan Green wrote:

> Has anyone out there had luck with interactively debugging
> multi-threaded Python programs? On Windows? Is there an alternative to
> implementing my own GUI debugger (which won't happen)?

Hi Alan,

I had the same problem awhile back with using the profiler with threads -
the current profiler function doesn't get "inherited" from the parent
thread when a child thread is created. I filed a bug on sourceforge and
whoever looked at it set it to an enhancement (meaning, I suppose, that if
it's really important to me then I should get my butt in gear and submit a
two line patch to fix it).

Why don't you submit a patch for the debugging problem and fix my profiler
bug at the same time? ;-)

Anyway, for profiling I got around it by importing the thread module and
replacing its start_thread (or whatever it's called) function with my own
that called the old function and then, in the new thread, set the profiler
function to that of the parent. I seem to remember a few other little
tweaks needed to get it to work but that was the main one. I don't know if
the same thing would work with the debugger, but I thought I'd at least
toss it out as an idea.

-Dave
(if you wait long enough, maybe I'll need to profile a multi-threaded
program again and I'll get around to submitting a patch <g>)




From runyaga at thisbox.com  Tue Aug  7 17:36:01 2001
From: runyaga at thisbox.com (alan runyan)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:36:01 GMT
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <5bZb7.46110$g_3.6706340@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

> This problem has been around long before the first Internet gold rush -
> many skilled people have attacked it. Find something you can get going,
> e.g., cfengine, Big Brother, even the old venerable Nocol.
>
> Join Usenix and SAGE. Check out the material of Usenix's sysadmin
> conferences from years past. Behold the diversity. It doesn't have to be
> Python.

but it can be Python.  http://sourceforge.net/projects/qos/

this is the monitoring system that was used at egroups, iirc.  whats
unfortunate is how hidden this project is ;(

~runyaga





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug  1 12:25:29 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:25:29 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:50:38 BST."
             <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> 
Message-ID: <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote:

> Hernan M. Foffani <hfoffani at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > One minor suggestion:
> > I think it would help if you set a convention for the name
> > of the first argument in classmethods. Like self for standard
> > methods. Well, even self can "work" here, too.
> 
> Guido:
> >I think 'self' would be confusing.  I'd like to propose 'cls'.
> 
> What's wrong with 'klass'?  Other than that it looks either
> like a typo or like German.  Several of the standard libraries
> use 'klass' when refering to a class and I've seen code outside
> the std. library using 'klass' as well.  Whereas 'cls' is less
> frequently used in the std. library to hold a class, but I've
> not seen external uses of that name for that purpose elsewhere.

`klass` is broken German <wink>. Might be correct Dutch, though. To me
it seems wrong to use a non-english token in a programming languages
using English for all other names.

There were lots of proposals for this, all of them contentious to
someone or another:

arg-name   pro                             con
--------------------------------------------------------------------
class      obvious meaning                 clash with keyword

Class      obvious meaning                 case sensitive

cls        BDFL's choice                   pronunciation, non-obvious

clas       closest to class                non-obvious

self       standard convention             confusion between instance
                                           and class methods

Self       follows a common convention     case sensitive
           (class name capitalized,   
           instance name lower case)

type       obvious meaning                 clash with builtin

cat        cute (class and type)           cute, non-obvious acronym


I'm glad that nobody proposed `class_` yet :-)

As the first argument can immediately signify a class method if the
same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an uncontentious
name popped up. 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From krel at is-antisocial.net  Thu Aug  2 16:23:56 2001
From: krel at is-antisocial.net (krel)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:23:56 GMT
Subject: https proto module?
Message-ID: <B78F2F18.AB1%krel@is-antisocial.net>

Is there a module out there to deal with the https (http with an 's' on the
end) protocol? I'd love it if there were.
-krel



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:25:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:25:57 +0200
Subject: where is doctest module
References: <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9ljgid02429@enews2.newsguy.com>

"robin and jim" <robinjim at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3O7f7.3258$D4.222704 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate it
> starting from www.python.org.

In Python 2.1 and later, it's part of the standard Python library, as
Lib/doctest.py.  You can get it from CVS if you have an older Python:
e.g. try, just one URL:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Lib/do
ctest.py?rev=1.16&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup


Alex





From jkonicki at harris.com  Tue Aug  7 11:02:39 2001
From: jkonicki at harris.com (Konicki, Jason)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:02:39 -0400 
Subject: execfile environment??
Message-ID: <EFAA78F77E74D411A0F700508BDFEAD61A72CB@mlbmx9.corp.harris.com>

I am trying to call a module with the execfile function. Is there a way to
specify the paths to search for the module I am calling? 
For example:

def call_module(module_name):
	# addition checks required before executing
                print "Executing "+module_name
                execfile(module_name)
        
When I call this function, I want it to find "module_name", i.e testing.py,
within the sys.path. Is this possible, or do I have to include the entire path
of module_name when using execfile??  

Jason



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug 23 20:32:02 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:32:02 +1000
Subject: optional args for getopt()
In-Reply-To: <3B859647.B62A861B@uniserve.com>
References: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com> <0108231343520N.28818@ike> <3B859647.B62A861B@uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <0108241032020Z.28818@ike>

On Friday 24 August 2001 09:48, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> Richard Jones wrote:
> > On Thursday 23 August 2001 12:59, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> > > Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I
> > > can set an option string to something like:
> >
> > Sorry, to answer this question directly - I don't believe it's possible
> > in the current getopt code. Your best bet would possibly be to locally
> > change getopt to do qhat you need (and at the same time, generate a patch
> > that can be submitted to python.sf.net).
> >
> >    Richard
>
> Thanks. I really was hoping NOT to have to reinvent the wheel. For now
> I'll just leave well enough alone and do my own parsing.... but if any
> maintainers are reading this, it would be nice to have GNU compatibility
> in this.

I wasn't talking about re-inventing the wheel... I was talking about a minor 
change to an existing one. OK, attached is a simple patch against the getopt 
module from the 2.1 distribution (encoded so mail systems don't mess with the 
formatting). I've submitted this to the sourceforge patch repository.

BTW: in a large number of cases in the python library - we, the python 
community, are the "maintainers" of the code. Modules get extended when 
someone has a need and submits the code the python maintainers.

Note: I've only implemented this behaviour - none of the other GNU 
extensions. Hope it's useful for you.


    Richard
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: getopt.py.diff
Type: text/x-diff
Size: 2227 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010824/76e875d8/attachment.diff>

From paul at boddie.net  Mon Aug  6 05:35:01 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 02:35:01 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa@posting.google.com> <3dd76bk8ik.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108060135.4ecb27bf@posting.google.com>

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:<3dd76bk8ik.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
> 
> The assumption I'm talking about isn't that the output is assumed to
> be HTML or text, but that templates are assumed to be mostly plain
> HTML with only occasional escapes into program code or variable
> expansions.  That assumption may have once been true, and still is if
> all you're doing is inserting the current date or picking a random
> quotation; one <!--#thingy--> and you're done, but for most modern,
> heavily dynamic Web sites I expect the density of program code is much
> higher.

It depends on your architecture, I suppose. Whilst it's possible that
the user interface of your application might employ a fair amount of
code to access and manipulate different generic components (eg.
business/application objects), and that code might be incorporated
into resources residing in your templates, I think there are
advantages in having another layer to do all this, with the templates
doing a very simple "translation" of the components in that new layer
to the "display".

My reasoning is that, especially when considering many different types
of user interface, there are likely to be activities and components
which support user interfaces in general. Once you're resigned to
dedicating a layer for these activities and components, what else is
left for the template system to do?

> > But doesn't this help to obscure the form of the final document? I was
> > once an advocate of building pages up from well-defined, "trusted"
> > components which represent a particular concept, but there are some
> > situations where logical components of a document don't just fit into
> > a self-contained part of a document; for example, attributes of
> > objects that one is trying to represent may be mixed together into
> > adjacent cells in an HTML table.
> 
> I'm not clear on what you mean; can you give a clearer example?
> Surely the code to generate the entire table can be rolled up into a
> single function, which answers much the same purpose.

Well, in the PTL architecture, I presume you can treat groups of
objects differently to individual objects. For example, in a
collection of order lines (the classic example), where each line
contains a product, some details, and perhaps a delivery address, you
would want to create a specific representation of the order line which
mixes together attributes from the components inside it, rather than
rely on whatever representations you might previously have chosen for
those components.

So, a product may have its own inate representation such as:

<p>Product code: <strong>product code</strong> (product
description)</p>

And a delivery address may have its own representation as:

<p>Address: first lines<br>Town: town<br>Postcode: postcode</p>

But in an order line, you would want to mix them in a previously
unforeseen way:

<tr>
  <td>product code</td>
  <td>product description</td>
  <td>first lines<br>town<br>postcode</td>
</tr>

In an over-simplistic, self-contained, "this object gets put here in
the document" system, you wouldn't be able to change the "context of
representation" so easily. Am I still making sense at this point? ;-)

> Incidentally, it strikes me that Quixote might be easier to use with
> Jython than Zope is.  The hardest part would be translating the PTL
> template generator because that uses the compiler module to generate
> Python bytecodes; perhaps it could be changed to generate straight
> Python output which could then be run through Jython's compiler.  I
> see no way to give that acceptable performance, though.

I'm also not entirely convinced by the preprocessing phase of certain
template systems. Although a well-managed development environment can
always provide the means for templates to get rebuilt when they
change, it seems like another thing to remember and another thing to
go wrong when you least expect. ;-)

For me, a good template system should support operation anywhere (not
just in some strange application server environment) so that I can
always test my templates in advance, but I'm not convinced that it
should require preprocessing. But then, I'm clearly not into the kind
of templates that would benefit so much from preprocessing...

Paul


From opennopri at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 23 03:57:08 2001
From: opennopri at yahoo.com (noprianto)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simple ping program
Message-ID: <20010823075708.89056.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com>

hello all,

Does anyone know how to make a very simple ping
program, with option to set the packet size....

please...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 17:58:19 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:58:19 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <9m34eb029s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <3b85511b.268189646@wa.news.verio.net> <slrn.pl.9oarmt.c0f.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <3b857a06.278664778@wa.news.verio.net>

On 23 Aug 2001 21:00:15 GMT, Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote:

>Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:30:44 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> pisze:
>
>>     lhs = rhs
>> Is it cast in concrete *for always and forever* that the
>> old binding of the lhs will *always* be discarded in favor of a new
>> binding to the rhs without regard to the previous binding?
>
>I think yes. The old binding doesn't need to exist at all.
>
In which case there would be no object to check for a preemption method,
so that wouldn't hurt anything.
[...]
>> IOW, one could conceive of a check for an attribute of the old
>> binding's object which if present would mean that the old object
>> gets to handle the reference to the new rhs and leave the old
>> binding alone.
>
>IMHO it would be confusing to have an extremely rare case where the
>= operator means something different. I would not use this operator
>for this case. It always meant rebinding of a name. The old binding
>is irrelevant - the object doesn't need to exist at all.
>
I guess I have to agree that one meaning for '=' is best.

Perhaps ':=' could be used to access a lhs object's assignment/rebinding
method, if such a thing were useful (which I think it might be. A concise
way of talking to a particular kind of object method is usually nice).
Something like '+=' with a different meaning.


From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 17 23:54:53 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:54:53 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:20:50 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>"Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
>    ...
>> Oops!  Very true.  I should have rewritten it as
>>
>>     e = 'wow'
>>     b,c,d = 'wow'
>>     a = 'wow'
>>
>> Hmm.  The argument about obfuscation versus repetition comes more clearly
>> into focus.  I still think multiple assignment is a bad thing...
>
>So now consider:
>
>    y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
>
>How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
>that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
>temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)
>
>Seriously now -- multiple assignment is a very minor thing, but
>handy when you do need it, and not error-prone.  So, why not?
>
>
Considering your proposed example, can you state with assurance
exactly what order things are done, including side effects?




From patrick.fichou at galactica.it  Thu Aug 23 09:44:07 2001
From: patrick.fichou at galactica.it (Patrick)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:44:07 +0200
Subject: REQ : Real.py
References: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it> <7xheuzue16.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <JL7h7.18078$4b5.465332@news6.giganews.com>

Paul,

I received a link that works in my mailbox... Here it is :
<
http://www.itp.ac.cn/software/mirror/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar
>
This module extends the capactity of Python with 'real numbers' : compute
with 1000's of digits what you want. IMPRESSIVE !

Try it,

Patrick

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
7xheuzue16.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Patrick" <patrick.fichou at galactica.it> writes:
> > Does someone knows where is the 'real.py' module that seems very useful
and
> > fast for number crunching ? The link on the Python Homepage is not valid
(
> > ftp://ftp.python.org/pub/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar ).
>
> Do you mean NumPy (Numeric Python)?  Check www.vex.net/parnassus in
> the math section :)




From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Thu Aug  2 20:56:35 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:56:35 -0400
Subject: Zope
In-Reply-To: <996780871.363.88696.l8@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B69BE83.11749.CB1F95@localhost>

>     Roar> I've resently begun to learn Zope (and therefore Phyton). My
>     Roar> question: Is there any newsgroup aimed at Zope?

Send Zope mailing list submissions to
 zope at zope.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 zope-request at zope.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
 zope-admin at zope.org


Bill Bell, Software Developer



From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sat Aug  4 18:31:15 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:31:15 -0700
Subject: Beginner's questions
References: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <003501c11d35$2cbc61a0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

From: "Lad" <printers at sendme.cz>

> Hi,
> I am a Perl programmer but I miss some things in Perl. For this 
> reason I am looking for another, better (if any) programming 
> language. Maybe Python would be my choice. Can you please 
> answer the following?

Yes.

> 1.How well threads are implemented in Python particularly under 
> windows?

Threads work fine.  There is a global interpreter lock that prevents
the python code interpretation from truly running in parallel (but
library/extension code underneath is running in parallel, so this is
really no big deal and you do get some parallelism).

Threads are easy to use.

> 2.Are there any libraries for working with HTTP protocols that is 
> modules that could help download( grab) web pages with GET 
> methods and modules for using  also POST method without 
> necessity to program these applications with sockets?

Yes.  The httplib does what you want.  In fact you can go higher level
than that by using the urllib module, which will open any url as if it
were a file.

> 3.Are there any libraries for SMTP, POP3 and NNTP protocols?

yes, yes, yes... see the modules list

> 4. Is there a program for making executable files from python 
> programs?

Yes.  A few.  The one I use is Installer.
http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html

> 5. What modules , except Tk, can I use for GUI programming with 
> Python?

Several.  I like wxPython the best.  It's a seamless wrapper on the
wxWindows GUI:   www.wxpython.org

> 6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web 
> browser directly or in other words display html file in python 
> application?

Yes.  Most of the various python GUIs have widgets for that
In wxPython there is a wxHtmlWindow and a whole suite of support
objects.

> 7. Where can I find a available modules list?

http://www.python.org/doc/

> 8. What are best tutorials/books on Python?

http://www.amk.ca/bookstore/

> 9. Can you give me  examples of large Python application?

www.zope.org
http://www.python.org/psa/Users.html

> 10. Why do YOU use Python?

It's really that good.  My first mindblowing experience was using
Mark Hammonds win32ui and PythonWin.  Not just because
of the module itself, but because it proves that MFC can be
seamlessly wrapped in python!  If something as nasty as MFC can
be wrapped, anything can.  (Now I use wxPython instead of win32ui,
because it is similar to MFC, but way cleaner, and it is multi-platform.)

> 11. Is it possible to to "talk" to java applets via Python?

Yes.  There are several protocols that both languages support.

You can also make and use java classes in Jython.
http://www.jython.org/


> Thank you for your answers?
> 
> Ladislav

You're welcome.

All this info and more is available at www.python.org, where you
should spend the next few hours.  And download python.  It's really
easy to download and get started.

- Ken Seehof
kseehof at neuralintegrator.com
www.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof





From vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi  Wed Aug  1 07:55:50 2001
From: vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 14:55:50 +0300
Subject: Non-Programmers (was: Changing the Division Operator)
References: <mailman.996556736.30160.python-list@python.org> <m3k80piax2.fsf@kepler.ibp.de>
Message-ID: <yoxbsm0kn95.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>

markus at kepler.ibp.de writes:

> We obviously need a good name.

What about the traditional name for non-programmer, the one invented
several years ago: lam3r?

Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) . I'm well aware of the need for casual
programming, esp. for scripting.

I think Perl people have used the term "accidental programmer" a while
now (isn't it used in the Camel book?).

-- 
Ville Vainio - http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio - ICQ #115524762
 Wild geese have no intention to cast a reflection
 Water has no mind to assume their form


From ahoffman at linux.announce.com  Mon Aug 20 19:49:41 2001
From: ahoffman at linux.announce.com (Allen Ahoffman)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 19:49:41 -0400
Subject: python internet development platforms for less
Message-ID: <3b81a215$1@news2.thevalkyrie.com>


Announce Communications Inc
POB 2308
Hyattsville, MD 20784
301-731-5786
kelly at announce.com


Please review the below offerings, and if it meets your needs for a web
development, test bed, production server, or just play box, let us know.

If neither of these works for you, talk with us we aim to please.

Rspecial
Rspecial2



From m at moshez.org  Sat Aug  4 09:37:53 2001
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:37:53 +0300
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <9kgnqa22p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>
References: <9kgnqa22p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>, <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E15T1cn-0006N6-00@darjeeling>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:08:07 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
 
> So instead of adding features let's remove restrictions.  And I don't
> think you can state with a straight face that there aren't any
> restrictions -- look at the complications such as StringIO vs cStringIO
> and pickle vs cPickle that are forced by the restriction "thou shalt
> not subclass a c-coded type":-).

How many people actually need to subclass StringIO?
I think the real reason StringIO stayed is "if you have trouble porting
the C code, here's some Python instead"
pickle is a bit more likely to be subclassed, but not much more.
Again, I think the argument is that as long as we can, we want Python
code to do the same thing for all the good reasons you know...

-- 
Moshe Zadka - http://moshez.geek
(if you're not cool, http://moshez.org is still working)



From slhath at home.com  Mon Aug 13 21:34:43 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:34:43 GMT
Subject: simple question about classes
References: <3b783669.0@216.0.152.7> <9l9gn102ufh@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Te%d7.48865$MC1.15647080@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

You guys are awesome!  That is what I needed.

Thanks,
Scott

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9l9gn102ufh at enews4.newsguy.com...
> "Scott Hathaway" <scott_hathaway at riskvision.com> wrote in message
> news:3b783669.0 at 216.0.152.7...
> > If I have a class, is there a way to iterate through the name of all of
> the
> > properties (public variables) of the class which would include public
vars
> > that were added at the time of instantiation?
>
> Yes, of course -- but your example show that you want to
> iterate on the attributes of an *instance*, not really those
> of the *class* itself.
>
>
> > class a():
>
> Wrong syntax (empty parentheses forbidden here, sigh).
>
> >     getPublicVars(self):
> >         # loop here that prints each variable and it's value
>             for varname in a.__dict__.keys():
>                 print varname, getattr(a,varname)
>
> This gives only the attributes of the instance -- no check on whether
> they're callable (methods rather than properties) and no check on
> further attributes that belong to the class or its bases.  It's easy
> to restrict the list by forbidding callables:
>             for varname in a.__dict__.keys():
>                 value = getattr(a, varname)
>                 if not callable(value):
>                     print varname, value
> and it's not too hard to similarly check self.__class__ and
> (recursively upwards) its __bases__ while avoiding duplicates,
> but it starts to get hairy -- maybe dir() in 2.2 will do that for
> you (Tim and Guido were mooting that as a possibility, and
> clearly it WOULD be handy here).
>
> You do specify ''public'' properties so you may want to filter
> further:
>             for varname in a.__dict__.keys():
>                 if varname.startswith('_'): continue
>                 value = getattr(a, varname)
>                 if not callable(value):
>                     print varname, value
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Mon Aug 27 19:32:03 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:32:03 GMT
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998886641.31045.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9olm3i.p3v.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:26:34 -0700, Jesse W wrote:
>William Tanksley wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:59:41 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote:
>> >William Tanksley wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote: 
>> >> >if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop': how would this be
>> >> >tested?

>> >> The problem is that each object should have an interface to do
>> >> everything it needs to do.  You shouldn't have to reach inside any
>> >> object to inspect how it's doing its job.  The above code should
>> >> look like 'if self.app.anyPlayersInStoppedBattles():' (I'm assuming
>> >> that's an appropriate name).

>Ok.  This still seems somewhat excessive to me, but I'll let it go for 
>now.

If it looks excessive to you, it's definitely wrong for what you're doing.
You shouldn't violate the law of Demeter, but you can find a solution
which doesn't appear excessive to you and which doesn't violate the law.
One of the main tenets of extreme programming is that programming should
be fun; if the design of your program is making you uncomfortable it's a
bad design.

I suggested that name based on a guess.  I now know a lot more about your
code; not only could I suggest a better name, I could possibly suggest a
different design which would make sense to both of us.

>Now, although your point that if you could not understand what the 
>code did, it was probably written wrong has value, and especially if I 
>have to try twice before I can explain it correctly, I am going to try 
>and explain it again. :-)

Your explanation was perfect this time.  Thank you.

>	The game I am making is a card game representing a auto 
>race.  The battle part of the above line refers to the top card in a pile 
>of cards called the battle pile(hence the name).  All cards have a 
>attribute called kind which represents(and I know this is confusing, 
>and should be refactored) the general type of the card. In your 
>terms, the method should be called 
>"CurrentPlayerHasAStopTypeCardOnTopOfTheirBattlePile".  (Ooh, 
>that looks sort of like I am being sarcastic.  Since this is email, I will 
>specifically say, I do not mean to be.)

It doesn't look at all sarcastic; I know programmers who write names like
that without wincing.  I can tell that you don't like it, and neither do
I.  Unfortunately, coming up with a better name requires me to know a
little more of the context.  Right now all I know is that this information
is a property of an object named 'app'.  App doesn't mean _anything_ to
me, but I'm going to guess that it means "application".  I don't know why
an application should be able to know whether a player in a game is
stopped, so the first thing I'd do is rename "app" to "theGame".

Perhaps it makes sense to say "theGame.currentPlayerStopped()".  What do
you think?  (You answer below, so let's see:)

>> >I don't see how the method could work if there was no 
>> >current player object.

>> The existance of a 'currentPlayer' wouldn't matter to this object if
>> theGame had a method to answer this important question.  In order for
>> me to write this code, though, I have to know what it means to theGame
>> when the current player is stopped.
>I don't think it would mean anything to the game if the current player 
>was stopped.  The current player could play different cards, but I 
>don't think the game would care.

Okay.  If the game doesn't care about whether the current player is
stopped, then nothing above the level of the game should ever care. (Since
the game is the only thing that knows about the current player.)

>By the way, I use the self.app object mainly as a central storehouse of
>links to the various subparts of the total program.  The app object does
>not really know or do much.

Ah.  I would consider the app object unworthy of existance, then.  Every
object should have a meaning of its own.  However, if you absolutely
cannot find a way to give it a meaning, you must violate the law of
demeter every time you use it.

>> I can rewite some code right now, though:
>> class Player:
>>   def isStopped():
>>     return self.battle.kind == 'stop'
>> Now we can reasonably talk about a player being stopped -- players can
>> tell you whether or not they're stopped.

>I was going to write here, "I really don't understand what this 
>changes", but just as I was writing it, I understood.  It adds a level of 
>abstraction, allowing the name battle to be changed, and even the 
>name kind or its value, could be set to something else.

Yes, that's a good insight.  It also allows the code to look like our
speech.  You mentioned to me that the current player was stopped; to me,
that indicates that you picture a player as being able to be stopped.
>From this it's natural to give players the ability to tell whether they're
stopped.

>> Of course, you'll recognise that I'm still violating the law of
>> Demeter. The reason I'm doing that is that I don't know why each
>> player needs a "battle".  Are you implying that there's a battle going
>> on inside every player?  Perhaps your battles should contain players,
>> rather than your players containing battles.  At any rate, what does
>> it mean to ask a player's battle whether it is of the stopped kind? 
>> Why does having a stopped battle also stop the player?

I understand now that every player has a number of decks, and one of them
is the battle deck.  Yes, I've played this game before :-).  Given that, I
think my implementation of isStopped is sufficient, and doesn't violate
the law of demeter.

>> 2.  When you're testing an object, test ONLY properties of
>> that object, never properties of contained objects.
>Ok; that's the law of Demeter.

Yes, the law of Demeter does require that.

>> 3.  Test ALL of the properties of the object which will be used by any
>> other object. If a property hasn't been tested, don't ever use it; if
>> you're about to use a property in a manner which hasn't been tested, write
>> a test for that property and add that test to the object's unit tests.

>Ok; but how to you "test the properties" without testing the implemented?

Let's look at one of the properties of a Player in your game.  I just
decided that "isStopped" would make a good property.  Now, in order to
write a test I have to create a player, put him into a non-stopped mode,
check that isStopped isn't true, and then put him into a stopped mode.
Probably the best way to do this is to force the Player to play a Go, then
play a Stop onto his battle stack (typical in Mille Bournes), then have
him play another Go.

Note that I'm speaking in terms of the Player object; it sees the world in
terms of a complete set of game rules.  When I play a Stop against him,
the Player *knows* that it goes on his battle deck; nothing else needs to
know about the existance of the battle deck.  In fact, you may not
actually use a real deck (that is, a complete history of all cards); you
might simply use a 'stopped' state and a most-recently-played card.  Oh,
and a speed limit.  The point is that only the Player needs to know how
he's keeping track of those details.

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From wolf359_ at gmx.net  Sat Aug  4 08:51:45 2001
From: wolf359_ at gmx.net (Thomas Weidner)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:51:45 +0200
Subject: no do...while ?
Message-ID: <9kgr1i$qh$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi NG,

I think everybody knows what a do{...}while(...); loop in c is,but is there
something like that in python ?




From ljohnson at resgen.com  Tue Aug  7 15:20:29 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:20:29 -0500
Subject: Checking for attribute in the current module with getattr( )
References: <k0nvgjzhetl.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <tn0fiagmf2tqe3@corp.supernews.com>

> Now, as indicated I don't really know what object to send in to the
> hasattr function, indicated with "???" - is what I'm trying to do
> possible, and how should I in case do it?

How about:

    if globals().has_key("func1"):
        print "This module defines func1"
    else:
        print "This one doesn't"

Hope this helps,

Lyle





From joonas at olen.to  Sun Aug 26 16:59:24 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:59:24 +0300
Subject: Text Formating in Python
References: <1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B89632C.9FF6A6E@olen.to>

Lee Hulbert wrote:
> 
> Is there a simple way to format a text string before printing to the
> screen?
> 
> Specifically, I have a list of 80 numbers, and I want to print the
> list, with each number a different color if it is positive, negative,
> or 0.

curses module can do the job.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-curses.html


From gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com  Wed Aug 29 20:09:29 2001
From: gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:09:29 GMT
Subject: language lawyering - doc strings
Message-ID: <66b6xvc0.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

I know this is being pedantic, but where's the syntactical spec for
documentation strings in the language reference?

I was looking at the 2.1.1 docs and I'd expect it to be in "4.1 Code
blocks, execution frames, and namespaces" but the only reference to
documentation strings is where it mentions the __doc__ attribute.

I noticed this when someone asserted you can't have doc strings for
classes.

-gc

-- 
Favorite god: Thor               Favorite song: "Hammer Time"
Motto: "Use a bigger hammer"     In my toolbox: 1 screwdriver, 6 hammers.
Often heard saying: "... then I used a hammer on it"


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Aug 23 10:42:30 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:42:30 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: enhancing slicing
In-Reply-To: <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010823164225.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 23-Aug-2001 gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
 >  v[5 :][: 2]

Yuck!

 >  v[:5 ][ -2:]

Double yuck!!
 
Besides being ugly (for your purpose), it's already valid syntax:

>>> v=[[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]
>>> v[1:][:1]
[[4, 5, 6]]
>>> v[:1][1:]
[]

 >  Shall I start on the PEP?

Please don't. Spend your time on something that at least has a slight
chance of being accepted instead. See other comments in this thread.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    23-Aug-2001
Time:    16:31:57

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com



From markus.schaber at student.uni-ulm.de  Fri Aug  3 08:44:44 2001
From: markus.schaber at student.uni-ulm.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:44:44 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>              <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3B6A9CBC.EAF5CC6A@student.uni-ulm.de>

Hi,

Greg Ewing wrote:

> > If you insist.  I think "x in type" is cleaner than isinstance(x,type).
> > The main problem with the second one is that it requires memory of the
> > order of the arguments, as well as the name of the syntax.
> 
> How about
> 
>    x in class c
> 
> for isinstance, and
> 
>    class c1 in class c2
> 
> for issubclass?

Reads very smooth in my eyes.

markus
-- 
Markus Schaber -- http://www.schabi.de/ -- ICQ: 22042130
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allgemeine Sig-Verletzung 0815/4711  <nicht OK> <Erbrechen> |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug  6 20:01:52 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 02:01:52 +0200
Subject: Newbie Question!
References: <mailman.997131131.27927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g5bnk9.509.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:51:36 -0000, ksunair at yahoo.com <ksunair at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am new to Python and interested to develop a new website using only 
>Python. I would like to know, few things
>
>1. Is there a simple example out there to print 'Hello World' on web?
>like the one in PHP
><html><body><?php echo 'hello World' ?> </body></html>

#!/usr/bin/env python
print "Content-type: text/html\n"
print "<html><body>hello World</body></html>"

The above is an equivalent Python cgi script.

>2. Is there a tutorial or documentation available anywhere on the 
>net, how to use MySql with Python?

The closest thing is the DB-API documentation (MySQLdb is an implementation of
the DB-API). You can find the docs on www.python.org -> Docs -> Topic Guides ->
Database - I'm too lazy to check it in my browser now :-)

The mySQLdb module contains some examples, but I'm not aware of an all-beginner
tutorial, the docs suppose you're already fairly familiar with SQL.

Basically it works like this:

import MySQLdb          # or whatever other PostgrSQL/Oracle/... module

# Open database connection
con = MySQLdb.connect( host = "dbserver", user = "me", passwd = "secret" )

# Get a cursor object
cur = con.cursor()

# Make a select/insert/update
cursor.execute( "select * from test where id>50" )

# In case of a select, fetch the results and do something with them
print cursor.fetchall()

con.close()


Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From guignot at wanadoo.fr  Sat Aug 11 19:55:23 2001
From: guignot at wanadoo.fr (Capitaliste Guignot)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:55:23 +0000
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
References: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net> <Xns90FAD42544391cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>
Message-ID: <3B75C5EB.DEA76048@wanadoo.fr>

chris liechti wrote:
> 
> "Chris Eidhof" <chris at eidhof.com> wrote in
> news:9l3sdq$5as$1 at cyan.nl.gxn.net:
> > Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under
> > win98, the webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but
> > it didn't work. Who can help me?
> > Please reply by email.
> 
> www.zope.org

zope is not really a web server.


From goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu  Tue Aug  7 16:25:53 2001
From: goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu (Lloyd Goldwasser)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:25:53 -0700
Subject: encapsulation?
Message-ID: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>

As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation.  'Way
back when I was using Objective-C -- and many other OO languages seem to
have a similar perspective -- there was a lot of emphasis on the ability
to keep the contents of objects independent of outside influence except
via well-delineated mechanisms.  Security and reliability were cited as
major benefits of this approach: every object knew exactly what the
outside world was going to see and exactly how the outside world might
act to change its state.  Python provides only the private variable
name-mangling mechanism for "encapsulating" the contents of objects, and
it's weak enough that dir(ClassName) announces all of those "hidden"
contents to the world, at which point they can be altered at will.  I
wonder whether this approach, making encapsulation a matter of
convention rather than something that's provided by the language, is a
liability.  It would seem to make Python ineligible for use in projects
that need a more reliable separation between objects and outside
access.  How hard (or desirable) would it be to provide a stronger kind
of encapsulation in Python?

Lloyd


-- 
Lloyd Goldwasser                                Department of Demography
goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu                   2232 Piedmont Ave. #2120
(510) 642-0525                                  University of California
fax: (510) 643-8558                             Berkeley, CA  94720-2120


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 10:44:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:44:39 +0200
Subject: [Python-Help] data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <997178610.17738.39.camel@lewis>
Message-ID: <011701c11f4f$7cfc6e00$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Ken Guest" <kwg at renre-europe.com> writes:
    ...
> attempts at specifying python procedures for vcmd and invcmd only seem
> to be called when the app in initialising and don't exactly work.

If you call a function (or other callable), it will indeed be called; so:

> For example, with
> 
> self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd=self.validate('%P'),
> invcmd=self.invalid())

this immediately calls self.validate and self.invalid, because their
mention is followed by parentheses '()' with arguments in between.  Then
arguments vcmd and invcmd are set to the RESULTS of these calls.

What you need to do is, set the argument to a CALLABLE (an object that
can be called, such as a function).  If you want self.invalid to be
called without arguments when invcmd 'happens', invcmd=self.invalid
will work just fine.  It's a little bit more work when you want to
pre-specify some of the arguments to be passed to the callable you
want (technically called 'currying', in honor of the great mathematician
Haskell Curry: look for "currying" in the search engine of activestate's
"Python Cookbook" site, there's a couple useful general recipes about
it).  Some Python programmers like 'lambda' for that purpose.  Me, I
prefer to give a name to the functions I write, so I'd write a little
local function definition and then pass that local function -- in
Python 2.2, that's:
    def validate(whatever):
        return self.validate('%P', whatever)
    self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd=validate,
        invcmd = self.invalid)
In Python 2.1 it's slightly more work (unless you have a
    from __future__ import nested_scopes
at the start of your module), and in 2.0 or earlier you do need
the extra work anyway, because there was no support for nested
scopes (so from within the validate local function name 'self'
was not implicitly defined), e.g.:
    def validate(whatever, self=self):
        return self.validate('%P', whatever)
and the setting of self.__entry just as above.

This assumes that when vcmd 'happens' it will supply an argument
to the callable you set for it in the Entry(...) call (correct if
that isn't so -- I'm no Tkinter expert:-).  Another possibility,
since you ARE using a bound-method (self.validate) anyway, is to
hold the '%P' as part of self's state (self.pattern='%P', say)
and just use cmd=self.validate just as shown for invcmd.  That
wouldn't work well if you want to use self.validate to validate
many fields with different patterns, though (but you could have
a method per validation pattern, if there aren't too many).


Alex





From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Fri Aug 17 14:27:38 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:27:38 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
In-Reply-To: <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108171213050.7463-100000@bms>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:44:34 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote:
> >>    [me]
> >>    To avoid long transition periods when a new Python feature requires a new
> >>    keyword, this PEP proposes to reserve a set of keywords "in advance".
> >
> > A good idea overall, IMO.
> >
> >>    abstract, directive, foreign, interface, static, yield
> >
> >I think we'd have to talk seriously about _which_ keywords, and peronally
> >believe that Guido and team should handle the whole thing.
>
> I agree. But they should IMHO reserve any keywords they might possible use in
> future versions in a bunch. This would avoid from __future__ kludges and reduce
> the temptation of "clever" reusing of existing keywords.

It may reduce "__future__ kludges", but __future__ can do more than
just tie up keywords...  I don't thing many uses of __future__ would
be avoided.  In a sense, it would be like trading a working time
machine for prescient visions.


- Bruce




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 25 18:12:36 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:12:36 -0500
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org>
        <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com>
        <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>
Message-ID: <15240.8916.650451.753935@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:08:13 -0400, Peter Hansen
    Paul> <peter at engcorp.com> wrote: 
    >> Dave Swegen wrote:
    >> Maybe more importantly, if you don't actually use TABs, 
    >> or you consistently treat TABs as eight spaces, the problem 
    >> won't arise.

    Paul> Four spaces is now the "standard" according to PEP 8, replacing
    Paul> the old style guide.
    Paul> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html

    Paul> But then, the style guide says the same thing... How long ago was
    Paul> 8 considered the norm?

    Paul> Good thing they reduced it ... it doesn't take too many levels of
    Paul> indentation to get pretty cramped in a typical 80-character
    Paul> window!

You're talking about two different things.  The standard indentation is four
spaces, but if you treat a TAB character as eight spaces you'll be okay
(though with "python -t" you might get some indentation warnings).  It's
when you treat a TAB character as something other than 8 spaces that mixing
spaces and TABs becomes a problem.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From jknapka at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  9 15:49:52 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph A. Knapka)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:49:52 GMT
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <mailman.997373715.7743.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B72E960.921F097C@earthlink.net>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> > From: Mark Robinson [mailto:m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk]
> >
> > Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list
> > and deleting
> > elements that don't meet a certain criteria.
> 
> You can use either filter or list comprehensions:

So it seems that (shudder) There's More Than One
Way To Do It. Isn't there supposed to be one (obvious)
way?

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug  6 20:54:07 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:54:07 -0400
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
References: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B6F3C2F.9DB68902@engcorp.com>

Ben C wrote:
> 
> Sorry to bother the group with such a trivial Q but for some reason I
> can not find an answer to this in the docs ... how does one 'clear'
> the Python environment .... so all loaded modules and variables are
> freed? (ie return the Python environment back to its initial state at
> start up) I assumed it would have been in the sys module?

Since the subject mentions "Interactive", the answer is:

On Unix: Ctrl-D then 'python'
On Windows: Ctrl-Z then 'python'

:-)

(No other options are guaranteed effective.)


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 18 04:00:15 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:00:15 +0100
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net>
 <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
 <1rjctgABtPe7Ewxc@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <cp7kw6em6n.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
 <LhPzvXAweVe7Ew3O@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <cp1ymadub3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <QmxFOIAPCif7EwNm@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <cp1ymadub3.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> >If you could subclass modules (you can't yet in 2.2a1, but you will in
>> >2.2), you could do this for module attribute references, but global
>> >variable references don't go through __getattr__ and __setattr__ on
>> >the module -- they use the C APIs PyDict_GetItem and PyDict_SetItem
>> >and you can't override those.
>> >
>> >--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>> 
>> OK I'll bite. What's a module attribute? I naively thought that
>> 
>> #M.py
>> X=3
>> ....
>> 
>> makes X a global in M and also an attribute of module M? Obviously I'm
>> wrong. Are there things (apart from builtins etc) which are more global
>> than X in M's scope?
>
>It's purely a syntactical question.  When used from inside the module,
>it's a global.  When used from the outside as M.X, it's a module
>attribute.
>
>--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
Ok so is the implication that external references to M.X could possibly
be controllable by get/set mechanisms, but inside M such controls
wouldn't work? Inside M you could presumably import M and work with M.X.
-- 
Robin Becker


From nas at python.ca  Thu Aug 23 14:01:38 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:01:38 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <jacobkm-13E542.17590423082001@news.ntlworld.com>; from jacobkm@dont.spam.me.cats.ucsc.edu on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 05:59:04PM +0100
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9oa58q.971.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <jacobkm-13E542.17590423082001@news.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20010823110138.A10830@glacier.fnational.com>

Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> I think I see what Russel is getting at here... the point is, myInt is 
> an instance of class MyInt when it is first created, but what if I want 
> to change the value of myInt without modifying the class?

You can't.  ints are immutable.

> >>> class MyInt(int):  
> ...   pass
> >>> x = MyInt()
> >>> isinstance(x, MyInt)
> 1
> 
> So here x is still a MyInt object.  Now I want to change the x so that x 
> holds the value 5 but is still a myInt object.  So I try:
> 
> >>> x = 5

You are quite confused about how Python works.  The above statement
binds the name "x" to the object "5".

> So, the question is, can I treat a MyInt the same way as I can treat an 
> int?  Or do I have to do something like "x.set(5)" or "x = MyInt(5)"?

Eventually you should be able to treat it just like an int.

  Neil



From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 10 23:51:11 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:51:11 GMT
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de> <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com> <slrn9n842d.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9l1fnr01f4d@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n9auf.114.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:20:08 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>    ...
>> > Use different callables for the callbacks -- if it must be
>    ...
>> A slightly different way is to use lamgda.  It's best for
>> simple cases where you just want to pass a few arguments that
>
>I disagree with your claim that it's best.

My phrasing was bad.  What I meant was that of the various
situations where one might use lambda the simplest cases are
the best candidates for lambda usage.  I wasn't claiming that
lambda is the best option compared to curry or local defs.


>>  15    b.bind("<Button-1>",lambda event,xx=x,yy=y: board.toggleSpace(xx,yy))
>
>I'd code this (assuming no nested scope, just as you're
>assuming):
>
>         def togglethis(event, xx=x,yy=y):
>             board.toggleSpace(xx,yy)
>         b.bind("<Button-1>", togglethis)

That's definitely better.  For some reason (undoubtedly due to
restrictions in other languages) I often forget that I can use
a "def" inside the body of a function.

In this case, it's probably a lambda because this program was
translated from Scheme, and it was already a lambda. :)

>Same for my favourite solution, except that there is no lambda
>form -- the local def takes lambda's place.
>
>> Curry is probably a more readable solution to a non-Schemer.
>> ;)
>
>I am or used to be enough of a schemer that our common-lisp
>friend recently caught me out as an adorer of tail recursion,

Yup, I was recentlry caught with my Scheme history showing when I
assumed that recursion was a preferred flow-control mechanism
in CL.

>but I still dislike _Python's_ lambda, with all of its limits
>and issues.

It's obscure _and_ crippled.  One or the other could be
tolerated.  I've been tripped up by lambda's scoping issues
more than once (but local def's have the same problem -- at
least for now).

>A local def appears to me to be a preferable solution in just
>about every case.

I can't really come up with an example where a lamba is
superior to a local def for anything that's not completely
trivial.  The only place a lamba seems like a good option is
applying a trivial function using map() or filter(). But, that
usage has been made largely redundant with list comprehensions.

But -- since there's no such thing as tuple-comprehensions,
you still need filter() if you're working with tuples, so maybe
lambda still has some utility is situations like:

 t2 = filter(lambda x: x>0, t1)

On a completely different topic, I don't quite understand why,
when passed a tuple, map() returns a list and filter() returns
a tuple.  I was quite surprised that they do different things.
 
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  NEWARK has been
                                  at               REZONED!! DES MOINES has
                               visi.com            been REZONED!!


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sat Aug  4 20:01:47 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:01:47 GMT
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <sbHa7.86105$Xr6.429154@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <memo.20010805001352.60291I@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <L10b7.89873$Xr6.443235@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Tim Rowe:

> But the sort of changes being
> /discussed/ (but mercifully mainly not implemented) would be more like the
> transition from BCPL to B to C, and would merit completely different
> names.

   Are you saying that some changes are reasonable while keeping the Python
name but others are not? The problem here is different views on the impact
and benefits of various changes. IMO, the change from deterministic
finalisation to indeterministic finalisation, which occurred first in Jython
and then when Python got garbage collection (was that in 2.0? the past is
all a blur now) was more significant than either case sensitivity or int on
int division.

   The world of software is changing quite rapidly with techniques that were
formerly resisted because of cost (such as garbage collection, machine
independent code, and verifiable execution environments) now accepted
because of improvements in implementation and in hardware speed. If Python
doesn't change then other languages which are new or which adapt will be
more attractive. I don't want to see Python frozen into irrelevance.

   Neil





From anthony at interlink.com.au  Thu Aug 23 01:55:45 2001
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:55:45 +1000
Subject: newbie question 
In-Reply-To: Message from "George Garnett" <g.r.garnett@worldnet.att.net> 
   of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:42:44 GMT." <8R%g7.29820$1p1.2181194@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
Message-ID: <200108230555.f7N5tjJ06610@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>

>>> "George Garnett" wrote
> I suggest looking on-line for computer
> magazine articles rather than relying on user's opinions (including myself).

How are "computer magazine articles" any more relevant than user opinions.

At least with user opinions you're hopefully going to get someone who's
used the technology, and isn't just regurgitating someone else's press 
release.

> specific market niche just like java. However, I've seen many companies go
> belly up and I wonder about jpython. How can they compete with an upcoming
> powerhouse like JSP in the long term? 

You seem to have some wierd idea that
a) jython (not jpython) is driven by some wierd commercial success need 
where it must control all and destroy all competition. 
b) it's created by a company. It's _open_ _source_. There's no company
to go belly up.

> By the way, for all you python people out there, I did read 'thinking in
> java' by Eckel and about 1/4 of a book on jpython (ok, so I borrowed the
> book). I've read about 25 books on java an its related languages so far. I
> guess I was just turned off by its C language like low level programming
> syntax. I prefer java's low level syntax instead (again, not that I'm biased
> in any way!).

?? Python's got a C language like syntax, compared to Java? What _are_ 
you on? That you needed to read 25 books on Java would also suggest, 
to me, part of the problem with Java, C++ and the like - they're just 
too damn complex.

Rather than reading "1/4 of a book on jpython", why not try reading 
something on python - for instance, the excellent on line "Dive Into 
Python" text at www.diveintopython.org. Jython is just Python, implemented
on top of the JVM. Jython and Java are complementary languages, in the
same way that CPython and C are complementary. If MS's .NET succeeds, well,
then, Python.NET will still be there, and will run on top of the .NET VM.
And it's still Python.

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.



From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Mon Aug 27 05:15:07 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:15:07 GMT
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
References: <mailman.998675977.5066.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9md32r$80k$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Bruce Sass <bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> If TrollTech wants you to make all that stuff available, then you
> really have little choice except to make it available... but I doubt
> anyone will insist you package it up in the same file a your app.


They don't. Article 1 of the non-commercial license allows you to
redistribute their Non-commercial windows distribution of the
development environment for Qt, provided you don't leave things out.
So, if you want to put non-commercial Qt for Windows on your ftp
server, you can. You don't have to, not even if you want to distribute
an app you made with it.

Article 4 allows you to develop apps with Qt and distribute them
with all necessary runtime components, provided that your app is
gratis and people can get at the source. You don't even have to
bundle the binary and the source of your app together, just making
the source available somehwere is enough.

See the license at:

http://www.trolltech.com/products/download/freelicense/noncomm-license.html

The only complicated point is where it relates to developing scripting
wrappers - they put that in especially for PyQt, I'm afraid, to ensure
that apps developed with PyQt and the non-commercial edition of Qt
fall under this license.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From Paul.Greer1 at btinternet.com  Sun Aug 26 20:20:30 2001
From: Paul.Greer1 at btinternet.com (Paul Greer)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:20:30 +0100
Subject: problem with pythonwin32
Message-ID: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>

Might sound like a silly question but how do I get a script to run as a
program from an Icon on windows. When ever I do the DOS box opens and
immediately closes.

the same in linux I change the py file with chmod -x  and set the path but i
cant seem to get the program to run by just typing the name?

Id appreciate the help




From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug  7 20:30:27 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:30:27 -0400
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
In-Reply-To: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEDBLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mark Robinson]
> ...
> I have a nested list structure of the following format:
> [[2, 3, 4, 5],
>   [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
>   [6, 2, 7, 4]
>   ....
>   ....
> ]
>
> I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from
> each nested list
>
> i.e
> [2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
> [2, 4, 2, ..., ...]

You've seen many interesting approaches to this.  Cool!  Here's one for
brevity, but relying on 2.2:

from __future__ import generators
from test.test_generators import conjoin

alist = [[2, 3, 4, 5],
         [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
         [6, 2, 7, 4]]

count = 0
for one in conjoin(map(lambda x: lambda: iter(x), alist)):
    count += 1
    if count < 6 or count > 75:
        print "%2d: %s" % (count, one)
    elif count == 6:
        print "..."

That prints:

 1: [2, 4, 6]
 2: [2, 4, 2]
 3: [2, 4, 7]
 4: [2, 4, 4]
 5: [2, 5, 6]
...
76: [5, 7, 4]
77: [5, 34, 6]
78: [5, 34, 2]
79: [5, 34, 7]
80: [5, 34, 4]

The "conjoin" imported there is a simple but general backtracking schema,
named in honor of Icon's "conjunction" operator.  It marches over all
cross-products of a list of no-argument functions that return iterators
(think that real fast 10 times <wink>), and generating a full cross-product
is the simplest thing you can do with it.  test_generators.py builds some
fancier things on top of it, and has 3 distinct implementations of conjoin()
(from purely recursive to purely iterative).

Since the implementation is generator-based, you don't have to compute all
the results at once:

>>> get = conjoin(map(lambda x: lambda: iter(x), alist)).next
>>> get()
[2, 4, 6]
>>> get()
[2, 4, 2]
>>> get()
[2, 4, 7]
>>> get()
[2, 4, 4]
>>> get()
[2, 5, 6]
>>>

Note that since "get" is also an iterator, nothing to stop you from feeding
it back into conjoin, either!  The disgusting possibilities are left to
sicker imaginations than mine.

cute-but-not-mandatory-ly y'rs  - tim




From brueckd at tbye.com  Thu Aug 16 11:19:35 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: newbie question: using Python to coordinate C++ program and use
 gnuplot
In-Reply-To: <3B771A9C.3BB8317@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108160817390.18661-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Eduardo Zea wrote:

> 2) A python program that opens gnuplot in a new terminal, and sends to
> it a comand like "plot output.txt". And re-issues this command each time
> it updates output.txt, so that gnuplot displays the data as it is being
> produced by the program.

Hi Eduardo,
Have you tried Gnuplot.py yet? (It's the first link that shows up when you
search on Google for 'python gnuplot'). Anyway, it's _very_ easy to use
and works great. While you're on sourceforge downloading Gnuplot.py, also
go get Numerical Python if you don't have it already as Gnuplot.py needs
it.

-Dave




From learnpython at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 03:29:53 2001
From: learnpython at hotmail.com (Learn Python)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:29:53 +0000
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
Message-ID: <F273BBsQwY6YHkidcDj00005ac3@hotmail.com>

hi all,

I know that this is a redundant question.
I started off with Tkinter from
Programming Python book ( explained in detail).
I liked it.

Then i stumbled across wxPython and the kind of qoutes/comments i found on 
the web site were so impressive.
for eg :

"Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"

-- Eric S. Raymond

Am so confused???
the docs were OK. There does'nt seem to be a book on it either :-(
Then can anyone answer the above question:
"Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
:-)

what s'd i be doing? I have to say here that i dont use python @ work but am 
learning out of my own interest. But w'd like to master atleast one GUI 
package.

thanks in advance,
karthik










_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From dalke at acm.org  Thu Aug 16 11:04:04 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:04:04 +0100
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com> <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfq7c$kn0$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9lhbpk01tgd@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lhg5f$8oe$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Me:
>> Huh?  "right now?"  There's almost nothing being dicussed except
>> for '/' which will break even 5+ year old code.  The new keyword,

Alex:
>Hmmm -- it looks to me we were VERY close to a BDFL pronouncement
>that assignment to aninstance.__class__ was going away,

Err, yeah, and that.  :)

And __getattr__ will be called for all attribute lookups.
That shatters a lot of my code.

                    Andrew





From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 11:29:36 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:29:36 +0100
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk>
		<oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> <3B7147BB.2000201@herts.ac.uk> <oqlmkuo9zm.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <3B715AE0.2060402@herts.ac.uk>

Sorry to be a pain in the rear, but I have tried this with dicts 
containing nultiply nested lists and it is still printing it all on one 
line.

Strange.......and annoying cos it sounds like something I would  use alot

cheers
blobby

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

>> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
>>> It is often nice to do:
>>>         import pprint
>>>         pprint.pprint(d)
>> 
> 
> [Mark Robinson]
> 
>> I just had a quick play with that, and I can't see any difference between
>> your example verbatum and simply print d.
> 
> 
> Oh, then your `d' should be simple.  `pprint.pprint' would print long or
> complex structures on multiple lines, all nicely indented.  Dictionaries
> entries are shown sorted by key.  I find it so useful that I forever had:
> 
>     import pprint
>     pp = pprint.pprint
> 
> in my `.pythonrc' filean I could use thinks like `pp(d)' interactively.
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 08:24:40 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:24:40 -0500
Subject: eval errors tracing
In-Reply-To: <aaf95f4f.0108220306.32eb6ad3@posting.google.com>
References: <aaf95f4f.0108210934.3d5af6c5@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.998418151.27551.python-list@python.org>
        <aaf95f4f.0108220306.32eb6ad3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15235.42120.175174.969952@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sergey> I don't want to get errors printed as the standard tools do. I
    Sergey> want to get the line number and do some complicated
    Sergey> manupulations with it (they are really more than just
    Sergey> string.zfill(lineno, 4)). For now I use a dirty hack: get
    Sergey> str(exc_info()[1]), then find by a regexp the line number, then
    Sergey> do what I want.  But I consider dirty hacks aren't the best
    Sergey> solutions.

Check out the print_tb code in Lib/traceback.py.  It doesn't use dirty hacks
to get the line number.  It extracts them from the relevant code object
using traceback.tb_lineno():

    n = 0
    while tb is not None and (limit is None or n < limit):
        f = tb.tb_frame
        lineno = tb_lineno(tb)                  # <--- here
        ...
        tb = tb.tb_next
        n = n+1

use-the-source-luke-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From cliechti at mails.ch  Tue Aug 14 16:29:14 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:29:14 +0200
Subject: Typo in Python Tutorial?
References: <79179cf5.0108141146.1ce6e2ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FDE4EC616BCcliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

[posted and mailed]

rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell) wrote in 
news:79179cf5.0108141146.1ce6e2ee at posting.google.com:
> In the Python Tutorial
> (http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html), Section 5.1, I
> noticed that the pop() method for lists is documented as:
> 
> pop([i])
> Remove the item at the given position in the list, and return it. If
> no index is specified, a.pop() returns the last item in the list. The
> item is also removed from the list.
> 
> I tried the following:
>>>> mylist = ['one','two','three'] list_item = mylist.pop([0])
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: an integer is required

the "[]" are there to indicate an optional argument not a python list.
this means that you can use pop with either no argument or an integer which 
specifies which element to pop.

if you compare it with 
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR2.1.html
you will see that optional args are indicated with bold brackets to make a 
clear distinction to python lists.

-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 15 04:45:07 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 08:45:07 GMT
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <7x3d6ui5ye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nkdkj.1md.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

14 Aug 2001 16:20:57 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> pisze:

>    7 / 3 =  2
>   -7 / 3 = -3
> 
> This is kind of strange.  Normally you expect (-a)/b to be the same as -(a/b).
> That's what happens in most languages, where division rounds towards zero:

Donald Knuth says that Python is right and C is wrong, and I agree
with him here. I expect a%b for positive b to return a value in the
range [0, b).

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug  5 12:41:58 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:41:58 -0500
Subject: PyGTK/PyGNOME questions
In-Reply-To: <PRbb7.1539$eU4.180330@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <PRbb7.1539$eU4.180330@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <15213.30550.33763.752382@beluga.mojam.com>

    Robert> Howdy, all.  I'm a long-time C/C++ programmer, still fairly new
    Robert> to Python.  I've got some code I've written using the
    Robert> PyGTK/PyGNOME bindings, and while they're reasonably
    Robert> straightforward, I have some questions.  Namely, once I use the
    Robert> create_toolbar or create_menus methods, how do I get a reference
    Robert> back to an individual button so that I can manipulate it later?

I'm not sure, since my PyGtk experience hasn't gotten that far.  My first
guess would be that if Gtk doesn't provide explicit functions to extract
particular child widgets that you'll have to muck around in the output of
the containers' children() methods.  I suspect you're more likely to get a
useful answer from the pygtk at daa.com.au mailing list, however.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From garrett at cs.colostate.edu  Wed Aug  1 23:27:36 2001
From: garrett at cs.colostate.edu (Deon Garrett)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 03:27:36 GMT
Subject: Converting from strings to integers
References: <e66c2e45.0108011649.71a4ba3e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mhi6u.o7k.garrett@eagle.cs.colostate.edu>

On 1 Aug 2001 17:49:31 -0700, Stephen Smith <ssmith619 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to Python and am just trying out an example of file I/O. 
> I am trying to read a file (successfully), and then multiply a value
> by another static variable.  The value from the file was outputting in
> the 'string' format, and I need to convert it into an integer.  I
> tried using the int(x) command, but it doesn't seem to care, it is
> still in the string format.  The number is a plain integer (87, for
> example).  How on earth do you convert the value to an integer? 
> Thanks for your help!

use the "atoi" function of the string module.

>>> s = "87"
>>> type (s)
<type 'str'>
>>> import string
>>> i = string.atoi (s)
>>> type (i)
<type 'int'>

There is also an atof function in the same module that converts to
floats and an atol to convert to Python Long ints.



From mike_haspert at credence.com  Wed Aug  1 12:37:35 2001
From: mike_haspert at credence.com (Mike Haspert)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 09:37:35 -0700
Subject: importing win32com.client.Dispatch with embedded interpreter
References: <fab90324.0107311204.2fffbfa4@posting.google.com> <Xns90EFBFDF131D1gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>
Message-ID: <fab90324.0108010837.39c3cb70@posting.google.com>

When I saw this in the help (1.4 Embedding Python), I assumed I'd be
OK as long as I matched each call to Py_Initialize() with a call to
Py_Finalize();

"Sometimes, it is desirable to ``uninitialize'' Python. For
instance, the application may want to start over (make another
call to Py_Initialize()) or the application is simply done with
its use of Python and wants to free all memory allocated by
Python. This can be accomplished by calling Py_Finalize(). "
 
Adding a call to Py_IsInitialized() before each Py_Initialize()
verifies that it is not initialized, yet my problem persists. Other
modules import: For example, usecom.py doesn't throw an exception
doing
    import traceback,string,sys
which is what I used to report the exception from trying to import
win32com.  So we're back to my lack of understanding regarding the
message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\scripts\usecom.py", line 4, in f1
    from win32com.client import Dispatch
  File "C:\Python21\win32com\__init__.py", line 95, in ?
    SetupEnvironment()
TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments

WAG: Perhaps I have to do something to shut down/finalize the win32com
module before it will correctly import a second time?? If so, I've
found no clue in the doc,yet.
I was hoping to embed Python as a scripting language in a significant
automated-test-equipment app, but without the ability to stop/restart
the interpreter at will, I'm out of luck.

Gordon McMillan <gmcm at hypernet.com> wrote in message news:<Xns90EFBFDF131D1gmcmhypernetcom at 199.171.54.154>...
> [posted and mailed]
> 
> Mike Haspert wrote:
> 
> > The minimal function f1(), below in usecom.py, runs fine from the
> > command line, but when I use the C API for the interpreter, it runs
> > the first time and fails thereafter. Can anyone see what I'm doing
> > wrong? The error message "TypeError: this constructor takes no
> > arguments" has me stumped.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > int minimal(char* modname)
> > {
> >     bool success = false;
> >     PyObject *mod,*func,*args,*rvals;
> >     Py_Initialize();
> 
> [snip]
> 
> It's got nothing to do with f1.
> 
> You can't Py_Initialize() twice.
> 
> - Gordon


From mcfletch at home.com  Mon Aug 27 06:07:29 2001
From: mcfletch at home.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:07:29 -0400
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
In-Reply-To: <MPG.15f43279f613af34989682@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <001001c12ee0$1584eef0$0202a8c0@MikeySpace>

Um, why not use the (index, index, index) values as _keys_ instead of values
in the dictionary?

That is:
trione = { (i1,i2,i3): triNumber }
tritwo = { (i1,i2,i3): triNumber } # not really necessary, see below

Then, to iterate:

for line in file2:
	key, localName = getIndices( line )
	# key being (i1,i2,i3) for the line
	otherName = trione.get( key )
	if otherName is not None:
		out.write("%i;%i \n" % (otherName, localName,))

So you don't load up all of the second file, just one line at a time.  If
you need to check for 1,2,3 == 2,3,1 then just check the various
combinations by doing gets for the other possible combinations.

HTH,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Marcus Stojek
Sent: August 27, 2001 05:34
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently


Hi,
first let me say that I'm new to Python and that I really love it.
Finally I can spend my time solving my problems and not fighting with the
programming language.

Okay, here is what I do. I have two files (ASCII), each of them
containing a huge amount (let's say 100.000) triangles. The format is:

Number of triangle,number of first node, number of second node , number
of third node \n

node are corners of the triangle here. Each node has three coordinates in
space, but we don't need them here.

The two files are describing exactly the same group of triangles, but the
triangles are numbered differently in the two files. So the triangle
containing the nodes (12,49583,331) has the number 5 in one file and the
number 23094 in the other one. As two triangles can share two nodes I
have to compare all three nodes for all triangles.

I have two dictonaries:

trione={number triangel:1.node,2.node,3.node}
(key and values are integer)
tritwo=as trione

def common(list1,list2):
    hit=0
    for i in list1:
        for j in list2:
            if i==j:
                hit +=1
    return hit

for t1 in trione.keys():
    for t2 in tritwo.keys():
        if common(trione[t1],tritwo[t2])>=3:
            out.write("%i;%i \n" % (t1,t2))



Works fine but it takes years. I tried to remove from the dictionaries
the triangles that already have been identified to reduce data.
(using pop or slicing) but this slowed the process even more. I know I
could speed up things by breaking the loops in common() when one node
from list1 is not in list2, but for future use I have to deal with shapes
containing more than three nodes.

Any idea how I could significantly improve perfomance? In "Programming
Python" I learned about tuple stacks, binary search trees and graphs but
I'm not sure whether one of those will help. Do I really have to creep
back to C? If so, can anyone tell me how to get my dictonaries into a C
routine? (I know I have to use SWIG, but a little example would help a
lot.)

Thanks in advance.

Marcus

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 09:48:52 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:48:52 GMT
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <82399a9.0108190144.cffeff7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fogvntkmm6cbietb3sllp1phmkc12dnmqo@4ax.com>

On 19 Aug 2001 02:44:50 -0700, aito at carenet.co.jp (Akio Ito) wrote:

>henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com (Henrik Ekelund) wrote in message news:<f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85 at posting.google.com>...
>> We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) ...

Hah. I just read this for the second time. I saw "large
system" and so of course saw this as "100,000 lines". A
10,000 line program is a "large system"? Surely thou
jesteth?

C//



From zopista at zopezen.org  Wed Aug 22 01:28:56 2001
From: zopista at zopezen.org (Zopista)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:28:56 -0700
Subject: Python & IRC : Is it a fantasy or reality 
References: <rCyg7.3606$zk4.319925@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <008501c12acb$579bf1d0$abcc4e18@cr582427a>

A bot for irc has been written in Zope, meaning someone has taken the time
to write the modules to connect to irc. A good starting point might be
there.

http://www.zope.org/Members/TheJester/IrcBot
--
  Andy McKay





From nas at python.ca  Mon Aug 20 16:27:13 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:27:13 -0700
Subject: Lists into lists
In-Reply-To: <200820011058375200%mday@apple.com>; from mday@apple.com on Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:58:37AM -0700
References: <mailman.998319210.23592.python-list@python.org> <200820011058375200%mday@apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010820132713.A3297@glacier.fnational.com>

Mark Day wrote:
> As another poster mentioned, you could use list(y) instead of y[:].
> 
> Can anyone offer guidance about which one to choose?  Are there subtle
> differences in behavior?  Is one better than the other when y is a
> user-defined class (such as a UserList derivative) vs. a built-in type?

list(y) returns an object of type "list".  y[:] returns a copy of the
sequence, maintaing the type.  Use list() if you want to be sure you get
a list otherwise use the slice notation.  If you don't like the slice
notation use copy.copy().

  Neil



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 05:48:30 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:48:30 +0200
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
References: <9mnd72$i8$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <9mnmhf0291i@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mnd72$i8$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> class now:
>     ....
>     ....
>     ....
> n=now()
> s='n'
> print s
>
>
> the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>
>
> what means?????

You probably used reverse quotes:
    s = `n`
rather than plain quotes:
    s = 'n'

Reverse-quotes are an operator, which is equivalent to
the repr() built-in function: they return a string
representation of the object to which they're applied.


Alex





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 07:07:23 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:07:23 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFBB@intrepid>

> From:	Robin Becker [SMTP:robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk]
> I just downloaded the html and although dark magenta and green are
> mentioned as indicating change at the top I don't see any other
> indications of it being used either in the source or on the screen.
 
Bugger. Something has stripped the tags out. I'll put them back!
 
> -should have that beer soon-ly yrs- 
> Robin Becker
 
Any-time-you-like-just-so-long-as-we-don't-have-to-talk-about-integer-divisi
on-ly Y'rs
Simon B.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From antoine at 2le.net  Wed Aug 22 06:07:44 2001
From: antoine at 2le.net (Antoine JOSSERAND)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:07:44 +0200
Subject: freezing a python script
Message-ID: <001d01c12af2$49cb5880$7801a8c0@technopole.fr>

Hi,

I have a problem to make an executable file from a python script. I tried with py2exe and McMillan's installer and I had the same problem with both. The .exe file which I obtain works fine on my computer but not an another machine. It says "DLL load failed" despite the DLL's are in the c:\windows\system directory and in my program's directory.

If you can give me a hand with this it could be great.

Antoine.



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010822/b96c5fa8/attachment.html>

From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 02:58:18 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 06:58:18 GMT
Subject: Python CGI and multiple forms on a web page
Message-ID: <esJf7.135602$g_3.21638770@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

I have a web page with many separate forms on it.  Each form is associated
with a Post action that runs the same or a different Python CGI script.  I
am using the module cgi.py
For each script, I am using FieldStorage to access a form's elements.
I want to be sure of the following:
Does FieldStorage in the CGI script that is being run by submitting Form A
(remember, the web page has many forms:  A, B, C etc....) apply strictly on
Form A so that the Dictionary available to me has only the elements of Form
A?
I know, the question sounds naive (and it may be), but I want to be sure.
Thanks,
Maan





From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Wed Aug  8 17:38:07 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 21:38:07 GMT
Subject: PyQt install problem
References: <3B70BAB7.A9C3061C@ucdavis.edu> <9kqm4t$6q9$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <3B716A1F.6DA99D39@ucdavis.edu>
Message-ID: <9ksbfv$sl8$2@news1.xs4all.nl>

Bruce Wolk <bawolk at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> Good suggestion.  When I run ldd on libqtcmodule.so as root and as user I get
> different results for libqt.so.2:

> root
>     libqt.so.2 => /usr/lib/qt-2.3.0/lib/libqt.so.2 (0x40505000)
> user
>     libqt.so.2 => /usr/local/qt/lib/libqt.so.2 (0x404f6000)

> I don't understand why this is so.  It seems that the qt libraries are in
> fact in both locations--both version 2.3.  I am not sure how that happened.
> So what should I do now?

> I also get many additional libraries as root that I don't get as user:

>  libXft.so.1 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 (0x40ec9000)
>  libpng.so.2 => /usr/lib/libpng.so.2 (0x40eee000)
>  libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x40f0f000)
>  libjpeg.so.62 => /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62 (0x40f1e000)
>  libmng.so.1 => /usr/lib/libmng.so.1 (0x40f3d000)
>  libXrender.so.1 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.so.1 (0x41018000)
>  libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0x4101e000)

This is logical and consistent with your earlier report. The Qt root
uses (which is presumably part of your OS installation) is compiled to
support Xft - the new, anti-aliased font protocol for X. Your X doesn't
support that (or it does, but your graphics card doesn't), and that
causes the error message you get when you run PyQt apps as root.

However, I'd search your user account configuration (particularly
.bashrc) for references to /usr/local/qt... - I think you might have
compiled and installed a qt as a user, and set the qt directory to that
place.

It might be best to just remove the qt in /usr/local and let everything
point to the one in /usr.
-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 10 16:51:50 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:51:50 -0700
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081815201.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu> <mailman.997310774.30348.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B744965.52328B32@ccvcorp.com>

gzeljko wrote:

>
> Is 1 'yield' worth 100000 'from __future__ import generators' ? :)
>

Well, you only need 'from __future__ ...' in modules that actually use
generators, so the ratio is a lot closer to 1:1.

Hm... I don't have 2.2a installed or I'd just try this, but...  if I've
got a module that declares a generator:

--------- gen1.py ----------

from __future__ import generators

def g():
    for i in xrange(100):
        yield i
----------------------------

And then a second module that imports gen1 and uses that generator....

-------- gen2.py -----------
import gen1

for n in gen1.g():
    foo(n)
------------------------

Would gen2.py also require the __future__ statement?  Or, is gen1.g()
returning a "plain" iterator, thus rendering the __future__ irrelevant
in gen2.py ??

(Gotta install 2.2a sometime soon....  )

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 19:58:11 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:58:11 -0500
Subject: where is doctest module
In-Reply-To: <9m1ca5$un$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
        <9m1ca5$un$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15236.18195.974220.101672@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate
    >> it starting from www.python.org.

    Aahz> the Python Imaging Library comes with a version;

It might be easier to get piecemeal by browsing the CVS source at
sourceforge:

    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/

While you're at it you might find the pydoc and inspect modules interesting
as well.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From rob at jam.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 12:26:18 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:26:18 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
References: <mailman.997798281.28806.python-list@python.org> <9lbhjn0282c@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B7950D2.60828E15@jam.rr.com>

> 
> Paging down the PDF file (with Acrobat Reader 4 working as a
> plug-in to IE 5.5) at page 5 I get an error messagebox:
>     "There was an error processing a page. Too few operands."
> then on clicking OK to that, another:
>     "An unrecognized token 285.8.Tw was found"
> and page 5 appears totally white.  So there would seem to
> be some problem with the PDF version.
> 
> Alex

Same experience here.

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Fri Aug 10 19:22:59 2001
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 16:22:59 -0700
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org> <9l12mo$m7c$1@news.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0108101522.7ee95f6f@posting.google.com>

Joshua Marshall <jmarshal at mathworks.com> wrote in message news:<9l12mo$m7c$1 at news.mathworks.com>...
> I always use '.  Holding down shift is just far too much effort.

My thoughts exactly.  Single quote doesn't require shifting -- it is
the 'automatic transmission' of string delimiters.

This also explains why Lists are better than Tuples: typing (1,2,3)
requires two shifts, typing [1,2,3] requires none.  ;-)


Tom


From paul at boddie.net  Fri Aug 10 05:30:03 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 02:30:03 -0700
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com> <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org> <cpsnf090x8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108100130.67e6be2a@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<cpsnf090x8.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>...
> 
> Hm.  How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
> letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can
> reasonably deduce)?

[...]

> >>> print dir([])
>  ['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', '__delitem__', '__eq__', '__ge__', '__getattr__', '__getitem__', '__getslice__', '__gt__', '__iadd__', '__imul__', '__init__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__repr__', '__rmul__', '__setitem__', '__setslice__', 'append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort']
> >>>
> 
> Note that print dir(list) would print the same.  Just an idea...

It looks great to me! Of course, as we all know, there's no real way
of discovering "dynamic" attributes implemented using __getattr__ and
__setattr__, but then after doing some work with them, I came round to
the conclusion that those special methods can quickly lead to the
"slip road onto the motorway of obfuscation" [1]. ;-)

One might argue that people could "roll their own" dir if they really
wanted something like this, but your code looks so nice and useful, it
really does merit being part of standard Python or at least part of a
standard module. If you don't want to "corrupt" dir's existing or
proposed meaning, I suppose you could call it something else: xdir
perhaps?

Paul

[1] In U.S. English, I suppose you'd say "on ramp onto the highway of
obfuscation". ;-)


From hlboey at pl.jaring.my  Thu Aug  2 11:43:50 2001
From: hlboey at pl.jaring.my (Boey Pak Cheong)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:43:50 +0800
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
Message-ID: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my>

I have a serious problem trying to build Python 2.1 on my Athlon running

Linux (RH 7.0). Make fails with error message : 'LONG_BIT definitions
appear wrong for platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)'

>From my limited knowledge, I looked at pyport.h and figured that
LONG_BIT must be defined somewhere else since sizeof(long) is defined as

4. But I just can't figure out where. Has anyone faced this problem and
found a solution or workaround. Please help.

Thanks.

P.C. Boey



From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug 21 02:07:49 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:07:49 GMT
Subject: simple graphics lib
References: <b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gfu3ot4aagk506ene1l7744lgg04iddn3t@4ax.com>

On 20 Aug 2001 19:37:25 -0700, k98jh01 at kzoo.edu (Bignose3) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065 at posting.google.com>:

:I am a student learning python on my own, coming from a C++ backgroud.
: I am working on a simple project, a simulation of fish, as a way to
:gain experience using python.  I am looking for a simple graphics lib
:that will allow me to display objects- like circles or squares to
:represent the objects I am coding.  Is anyone aware of a lib that will
:allow me to do this.  When learning C++ I used the CMU Graphics Lib
:which worked great.  Let me know if anyone has any ideas.
:
:Thank You
:Joe

For something along the lines of the CMU Graphics package, try this:

Look in your 
Python2x/Lib/lib-tk/ 
folder for the 
turtle.py module.
Run it.
Then look at the code.

Let us know if you have any questions.

You might also want to check out the Python Tutor list.
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


Good luck,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 03:32:26 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:32:26 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B83E9E3@twigger.nl> <mailman.997195091.27673.python-list@python.org> <fO_b7.80083$EP6.19456640@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B70EB0A.8030407@herts.ac.uk>

Thanks Terry, I was thinking that was nasty. It's little things like 
that, that can save you hours of heartache

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997195091.27673.python-list at python.org...
> 
>> def comb(list, *pos):
>>     if not pos:
>>        pos = 0
>>    else:
>>        pos = pos[0]
> 
> 
> Slightly more idiomatic:
> 
> def comb(lists, pos=None):
>     if pos == None:
>        pos = 0
> 
> Masking a builtin function by reusing its name leads to trouble when
> you later try to use that builtin.  I try to avoid it.  Some like
> living dangerously.  Your choice.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Aug 25 07:51:22 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:51:22 -0700
Subject: Re and Me.
References: <toevhkp1hlem92@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9m83nh$qjn2$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Check out http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/regex/regex.html

import re
p = re.compile('url=(\w)&', re.IGNORECASE)
print p.findall("""this is url=a& test
this is URL=b& test
this is url=c& test
this is Url=D& test""")

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"epoch7" <epoch7 at nocharmailter.net> wrote in message
news:toevhkp1hlem92 at corp.supernews.com...
> This is day 2 of my programming expereience, so please bear with my
> newbie-ishness.
> I'm trying to search for a string inside a file.  The string will be
> different
> but the characters marking its beginning and end are the same (url= and
&).
> I've spent all day and night just learning the ins and outs of python so
> this is still a little beyond me.
> re.split() would return the values between just one pattern correct? So
> there must be some other way.
> I could put an if statement in there that if it finds "&" it would output
> that string to file and continue with the search
> but that waaay beyond me :)
>
> will
>
>
>



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Aug  1 05:46:01 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 11:46:01 +0200
Subject: Unicode File
References: <3B66179D.1D55B27C@yahoo.com> <3B66ECA8.60313BD0@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j466c8xgdi.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tksee Lhsoh <tksee at yahoo.com> writes:

> How do you know the encoding of a file ?
> 
> Is it specific to the application which generated the file?

Indeed it is. Sometimes, some higher-level protocol will tell you,
e.g. the charset= attribute in a MIME Content-Type:. In other cases,
the encoding is given inside the file, e.g. the encoding= attribute in
an <?xml heading. 

In most cases, you just have to know; if you don't, you could try to
guess the encoding based on the file contents. That is typically a
non-trivial algorithm, though, unless you know that the encoding must
be one out of a few.

Regards,
Martin



From deep0258 at aol.com  Wed Aug 22 21:57:37 2001
From: deep0258 at aol.com (Deep0258)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 01:57:37 GMT
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
Message-ID: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>

I am just wondering, since I am now joining python and it's greatness, why
don't the developers of Python make Python just as fast(if not faster) than the
older, more low-level lanquage. Yes, there are advantages using the interpreter
style programs, but isn't there a way to incorporate the speed of compiled
programs with the debugging and clearness of Interpreter to make Python a much
faster lanquage. There might be a way, but I'm pretty new so I don't know. Any
answers, thank you for listening?


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  9 13:19:46 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 19:19:46 +0200
Subject: calling applications from python
References: <3b72ba42_1@nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net>
Message-ID: <j44rrhw3pp.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jesper Olsen" <jolsen at voxgeneration.com> writes:

> It is possible to call applications from a python program using, e.g.
> the os.system command:
> 
> os.system("ls -l")
> 
> Is it possible to attach the output from this command to a file?
> I would like to be able to read this output, instead of just sending it to
> stdout.

Certainly, that would be

p = os.popen("ls -l")
output = p.read()

Of course, if it is really ls(1) that you are after, I recommend to
use os.listdir instead, combined with os.stat.

Regards,
Martin


From nstalkie at tvd.be  Wed Aug  8 16:21:20 2001
From: nstalkie at tvd.be (Sammy Mannaert)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:21:20 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn9n34ea.1lk.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <3B71A15D.A025AFDA@tvd.be>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:53:43 -0400, Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >> > > > code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody
> >> know
> >> > > > of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables
> >Python
> >> > > > stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
> >> > >
> >> > > What about nedit.
> >> >
> >> > Aha, another one, so far we have:
> >> >
> >> > Emacs,
> >> > Vim,
> >> > Alpha,
> >> > Jed,
> >> > Nedit,
> >> >
> >> > that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?
> >> >
> >> Scintilla.
> >
> >TextPad
> 
> wily,
> acme (scripted by anything that can read and write files)


cooledit  ... this editor even has it's scripting done in
python and you can program scripts for the editor in python.
nice coloring modes too ... it's my favourite programming
editor :)


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 30 20:12:18 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 20:12:18 -0400
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com> <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a@posting.google.com> <uofoygzlu.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <3b8ea450.14522632@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <u3d69ytnh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) writes:

> But isn't this substituting for pcAnywhere rather than allowing the CGI
> to execute the script, unless either the server is 'impersonating' the
> user who has access, or IUSR_<server name> (the server services' own
> user login account for anonymous access -- which you should not give
> additional privileges to unless you have a *very* protected environment
> with no external access) has rights to the share (which would mean it was
> effectively a pretty public share).

No - this would be a way to run the script on the _client_ machine, in
a way that the same script would run on any client machine without
worrying about local drive mappings.  One would presume that other
necessary files on the server could be published on shares with
appropriate access to network authenticated users (for which the
clients on the network would likely have already authenticated to upon
login to their local machine).

> Or did I miss some discussion?

If I read the original request right, part of the whole reason to even
want the script to execute on the server (and thus the current
pcAnywhere workaround) was to avoid having to deal with drive mappings
- running locally on the server was a controllable environment.  If
you just use UNCs then, barring network access problems the same
script can run locally on the requester's machine.

But this is just an alternative potential solution to the underlying
problem, assuming that executing on the server is itself already a
secondary problem attempting to address the original issue

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From alice at homegiant.d2g.com  Fri Aug 10 04:46:56 2001
From: alice at homegiant.d2g.com (Alice Lin (Home Giant))
Date: 10 Aug 2001 16:46:56 +0800
Subject: Furniture Hardware
Message-ID: <E15V7yQ-0003AX-00@mail.python.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010810/33dd11bf/attachment.html>

From NeXTStep at programmatic.de  Fri Aug 24 13:38:00 2001
From: NeXTStep at programmatic.de (Joerg Sauer)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:38:00 GMT
Subject: boost::python sharing native c++ object with python
Message-ID: <3b868b2b.160761963@news.netcologne.de>

Hi,
hopefully the subject is attracting!?

I know how to create an extension module using boost and how to make a
class wrapper using python::class_builder. That works fine!

Now that I have an extension DLL I want to embed python in my
application.

How can I create an c++ class object in the c++ app and export this
object to the python instance (not as function parameter but as object
at global or module level)?

Suggest I have 

---myclass.h-------------
 class DLLAPI myclass 
{
public:
	myclass(){}
	void setval(int x){_x=x;}
	int   getval(){return _x;}
private:
	int _x;
};

---myboostmod.h------------
#include "myclass.h"
BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE_INIT(mymod)
{
	
python::module_builder this_module("mymod");

    // Create the Python type object for our extension class.
    python::class_builder<myclass> myclass_class(this_module,
"myclass");

   myclass_class.def(python::constructor<int>());
    myclass_class.def(&myclass::setval, "setval");
    myclass_class.def(&myclass::getval, "getval");
}

now I have a main programm
----------main.cpp-----------
#include <iostreams>
#include <Python.h>
#include "myboostmod.h" //???? or just #include "myclass.h"
using std::cout;

int main(int argc, char** argv)
{
	PyObject *pMod, *pDict, *pObject;

	Py_Initialize();
	pMod = PyImport_ImportModule("mymod");

	// Now that I have python up and ready, I want to export a c++
	// class
	myclass mc1;
	mc1.setval(5);
	
	// I would like to export this object with the python name mc1
	// too 
-->>> export mc1 to python with name mc1.
	
	// Now I want to run a simple python statement

	PyRun_SimpleString("print mc1.getval()");
	PyRun_SimpleString("print mc1.setval(12345)");

	// here the object should keep the value set in python
	cout << "Now mc1 is:" << mc1.getval() << "\n";

	Py_Exit(0);
};


Does anybody has a sollution or some hints?

Thanks in advance 
Joerg




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Aug  4 02:06:58 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 06:06:58 GMT
Subject: Is this the *right* way of exception handling?
References: <9kdr21$rao$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <slrn9mmffh.7h4.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <3B6B3F57.65BA307B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mn482.9od.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:18:31 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Quinn Dunkan wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, python's
>> assertion mechanism is not well integrated with the exception
>> mechanism, so
>> assertions that should really raise a ValueError will always raise an
>> AssertionError.  A possible third argument to 'assert'?
>
>Are you suggesting some kind of difference between logic asserts (logic
>faults) and data asserts (bad data, has to be handled properly)?  In
>Python, the latter should definitely not be presented as asserts, but
>rather as just raising some other (possibly custom) exception.  Logic
>asserts mean something's broken; data asserts just means someone sent it
>bad input data and need to be handled properly by the program in any
>case.

I'm suggesting that an assertion can assert many things.  It can assert a
class invariant, or a proper value, or the consistency of data on disk.  But
these are all flattened into a generic "AssertionError".

Python provides two ways to do the same thing:

if not foo: raise bar

and

assert foo

The difference is that asserts can be turned off.  I use asserts to describe
sanity checks which are redundant and unnecessary in a working program, and
'raise' for everything else.

I don't think your logic and data asserts dichotomy makes much sense, since
logic faults are usually manifested as bad data.  If someone sent you bad
data, it either came from the outside world, in which case you have to deal
with it, or it came from your program, in which case it's a bug.  And at a
certain programmer and program defined point, it's a bug if data from the
outside world hasn't been checked for errors.

Python style is often to just toss the data in, and see if it's good by
whether it blows up or not (the "better to ask forgiveness" philosophy), but
it can be handy to catch things before that point, especially when the
consistency of a filesystem or database is at stake.  And sometimes those
checks can be very expensive, so it's handy to be able to turn them off when
everything's been tested.

On the other hand, if it's a "bug" error, you usually shouldn't be catching
it, so it shouldn't be an ordinary exception type.  I dunno.  In any case, I'm
happy the way things are and don't want yet another little convenient feature.
I can still write "if __debug__: if foo: raise bar", but hardly ever do.

So I take it all back :)

Yeah, it has to be decided by the programmer.  Some bad arguments can be
caused 
contract violations are the result of 

>
>-- 
> Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
>/  \ The basis of optimism is sheer terror.
>\__/ Oscar Wilde
>    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
> The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 02:26:00 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 02:26:00 -0400
Subject: Single Instance of app
In-Reply-To: <slrn9ojoab.11a.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEDHLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim Hammerquist]
> ...
> While I'm at it, I've never actually seen (nor needed, thus far) Python
> code to get an atomic lock on a file.  What's the idiom in Python?

I'm not sure exactly what's meant by "atomic lock on a file", but you can
study the std tempfile.py module for the excruciating dance needed to create
temp files safely.




From Lance.Ellinghaus at eConnections.com  Thu Aug  9 17:19:03 2001
From: Lance.Ellinghaus at eConnections.com (Lance.Ellinghaus at eConnections.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:19:03 -0500
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
Message-ID: <OF8F2951CA.D0DD16F9-ON86256AA3.0074EF0C@econnections.com>


As you will learn through the years as a programmer, there is normally more than one way to do
anything in software. It becomes a personal choice based on previous programming and personal
philosophy.

--
Lance Ellinghaus
Phone: 940-466-7251
Pager: 800-226-4526 or lellinghaus at imcingular.com
Sr. Architect - eConnections, Inc.



                                                                                                                         
                    "Joseph A. Knapka"                                                                                   
                    <jknapka at earthlink        To:     python-list at python.org                                             
                    .net>                     cc:                                                                        
                    Sent by:                  Subject:     Re: iterating through lists to delete elements                
                    python-list-admin@                                                                                   
                    python.org                                                                                           
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                    08/09/01 02:49 PM                                                                                    
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         




Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
>
> > From: Mark Robinson [mailto:m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk]
> >
> > Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list
> > and deleting
> > elements that don't meet a certain criteria.
>
> You can use either filter or list comprehensions:

So it seems that (shudder) There's More Than One
Way To Do It. Isn't there supposed to be one (obvious)
way?

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 17:26:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:26:43 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com> <pson154nfha.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108131541.3cc051d9@posting.google.com> <997763429.579495@yabetcha.drizzle.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108141204.1518e81c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lc5bh022j2@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Andy Freeman" <anamax at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8bbd9ac3.0108141204.1518e81c at posting.google.com...
    ...
> Moreover, it's not clear that language changes are required for
interesting
> speedups.  Alex has mentioned ways to significantly speed up dispatch,
> which happens to be one of the biggest opportunities for using type
> information to increase performance.  There's also type inference, which

And let's not forget Skip Montanaro's much more concrete proposed-PEP
for object-tracking (posted to Python-DEV, though briefly discussed here
today).  That one seems bright and beautiful to me, and much closer to
practical implementability than my own blue-sky babblings about
method-caching.


> While there's some work being done on python performance, it isn't getting
> nearly the attention that one would expect given the opportunities if
> performance really was a significant problem.  It's possible that Guido
> et al's priorities are completely wrong or that they don't see the
> opportunities, but ....

It seems to me that a very significant fraction of the restrictions that
appear to be due to fall upon Python in the near future are very much
motivated by performance "getting attention" -- we're going to lose a
portion of Python's dynamic abilities, and some of the remaining ones
will not be active by default any more, basically to ease optimization
tasks (and secondarily to protect "typical users" from potential errors
that, in my experience teaching Python and helping "typical users",
don't really happen -- accidentally changing a class's attribute or an
instance's class... I don't think I've ever seen that happen actually).

So much for Eckel's "Why I Love Python"... e.g. his arguments about
Python being superior to Java because of the "necessary for speed"
type-awkwardness of the latter, while in Python speed is obtained
through an escape mechanism (extensions) while the language has
"no compromises: it's all about making me more productive".  I
find I'm naturally brought to speak about the Python I love (just
as much as Eckel does) in the past tense, even though the actual
fall of the axe is scheduled for the future -- 2.2 still leaves me
"classic classes" that are smoothly and seamlessly dynamic, it's
only for 3.0 that they're going to be yanked away, and even then,
if I'm lucky, I might get a backwards-compatibility metaclass so
I can keep playing in my sandbox, maybe... what's really very
frightening is the "performance getting attention" aspect -- and
the predictably-destructive backlash against some of the most
interesting, although, for now, peripheral, parts of the language.

(Even with the peripheral nature of these changes, I think they'll
still push us to more front-loaded gotta-foresee-all design and
against XP-ish just-in-time-design -- with a substantial negative
impact on overall productivity larger than the 'marginal' nature
of the affected areas would seem to justify).  Oh well, maybe I'm
just being pessimistic tonight.


Alex





From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug  7 01:20:04 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 05:20:04 GMT
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <gcuumtg94g0htmc4okr8clolsl87uhnv7u@4ax.com>

>> I've tried unsuccessfully in the past to compile python extensions
>> using cygwin, but failed for more than one reason or the other and...

One. Get _Python Essential Reference_. It has the best guide to extending
and embedding in Python that I've ever seen.

Two. If you're fizzling around with Cygwin and GNU and can't figure it out,
please take that to the appropriate newsgroups.

Three. You've claimed to be new to C. You're going to have to learn quite
a bit about C, first. The Python documentation does not take on the task of
teaching C while it explains the extension mechanisms.

C//



From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sat Aug 11 18:59:44 2001
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:59:44 +0100
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3B75B8E0.A3F3969E@ndh.net>

Hello Joe

jsnyder schrieb:
> Hello, I'm a newbie at Python and the solution to the following seems to
> escape me at the moment:
> 
> Running from Pythonwin, I am importing a module and then calling its method.
> Then I change the module code and run it again, but the old code still runs,
> not the new code.  The only way I have been able to get the new code is to
> shut down the interpreter, restart it and reimport the module.  Surely there
> is an easier way.

You may use
  reload(module)
if you earlier did
  import module

However, that would cause problems if some code had changed the module's
contents and relies on them.

Therefore, I use reload only for tests in the interactive interpreter.

Stefan


From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug 19 19:10:10 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:10:10 GMT
Subject: Stop assignment of a class attribute?
References: <9lpcnh02991@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <mHXf7.118646$EP6.31909201@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Al Gonzalez" <alberto at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9lpcnh02991 at enews1.newsguy.com...
> I can overload the __setattr__ and __delattr__ to make instance
attributes
> immutable, but I don't see how it can be done for class attributes.

Can't for normal classes.

>  Does  anyone have any ideas?

It may be possible with metaclasses, but I cannot help you there.

Terry J. Reedy





From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Mon Aug 27 06:26:34 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:26:34 +1000
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
References: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>       
	 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net>
	 <15241.575.772954.842109@beluga.mojam.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261017270.6830-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8A205A.E5076D1F@student.gu.edu.au>

Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> 

> I don't know whether you are the person that has been responding before,
> but I heard that 2 variables have to be changed to compile with 2.1.  He
> wouldn't tell me which ones, and when I searched for version with case
> insensitivity on, I found PYTHON_VERSION = 1.5 and changed it to 2.1.
> It still won't do anything with python2.1...

Try this on a clean build directory

PYTHON=/usr/local/bin/python ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
Then the rest of it.
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 05:52:58 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 10:52:58 +0100
Subject: How to call java from python?
References: <wM6c7.6221$qb.1465@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3B710BFA.3070807@herts.ac.uk>

Larry,

there is an implementation of python in java called jython which can do
what you are wanting and much much more. I think you will like

check out www.jython.org and enjoy :)

blobby

Larry Han wrote:

> Is there any way to use java method from python?
> Like calling C from python, it seems reasonable to
> drag java and python closer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Larry



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 12:56:18 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:56:18 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com> <vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B7563B2.AC539489@engcorp.com>

Jeremy Jones wrote:
> 
> In the example that I was working on, the children (not of the same parent,
> but in different tiers of the hierarchy) were of differing types and would
> have different attributes and different quantities of attributes.  I don't
> know if I spelled that out exactly like that initially, but immediately
> under the root would be test sets.  The test sets right now don't have any
> attributes of their own, but they do have children - tests.  The tests would
> have an attribute of pass/fail and a reason why and commands as children.
> The commands would have attributes of expected result, pass/fail, actual
> result.  I suppose you could hack together a table that would accomodate all
> of those different attributes and have CHILD as a foreign key, but it seems
> it would be a pain to give it room to grow if I needed it to.  
[...]
> I appreciate the posts.  They have definitely spurred me on to think
> differently.  I am still inclined to think that the DOM/XML route will be a
> more simple route for my specific problem.

One of the reasons I suggested the XML route is this.  Over 
the last year and a half, one of our projects has been the 
development of an automated factory test system.  It interfaces 
with instruments using GPIB and executes a variety of tests 
on the device under test (DUT).  All results are written out 
as XML.  The input is (currently partially) XML also.  One 
of the primary requirements leading to the choice of XML was the
expectation that we would have substantial growth and change 
over the first implementation.  By using XML, we handle this 
easily.  (Coincidentally, although our input doesn't have 
pass/fail, the output has an <outcome> element which contains 
PASS or FAIL or COMPLETE and an optional element <reason> which 
contains text describing why a test failed, sort of as you were 
thinking.)  The code, of course, is in Python (with calldll).

Another reason I keep picking XML for this kind of thing is that
I can gradually leverage more and more all these tools being 
developed for XML processing.  If I need to compare two XML 
trees... hey, somebody just made Xmldiff 
(http://www.logilab.org/xmldiff/ ... thanks Alexandre! :-) 
and that will do the trick.  If I need to display it 
quickly I can just fire up IE (ugh).  If I want to print
it, I can write some XSL stuff with FOP to convert to
PDF.  And if I need to edit the data by hand (and sometimes 
I still do), I can fire up a Plain Old Text Editor.

Although there are some limitations relative to other, 
special-purpose or more mature technologies, the synergy
I'm beginning to see with all these tools and standards 
is really starting to prove (at least to me) the sheer
power of a universal standard which is general enough to
adapt and handle diverse applications.  A relational 
database might give you better performance.  Maybe even
a slightly simpler solution -- for now.  When you look back
after a year and see how warped your system has become
because of this initial choice of a "brittle" solution,
you might rewrite with XML (or something else) anyway.

(Of course, follow XP principles regardless: if you
have to spend significant time learning and implementing
the solution with XML, don't go there.  Just pick something
simple, as Alex said and you agreed, and get it working.
You can always plan on refactoring once the basic thing
is working and you can focus on learning XML without the
pressures of trying to make the system work at the same 
time.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Wed Aug  1 22:15:17 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 19:15:17 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108011815.7eb9c0f5@posting.google.com>

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:<3dofpzk3vq.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
> ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) writes:
> Of course, we don't care about people using graphical HTML editors;
> that would be impossible to accommodate with PTL.

Which is an issue which I had actually been considering. In that respect,
I had been looking at a scheme which extended the idea of server side
includes as implemented by Apache. In order to accomodate servlet or Bean
type access to back end services, was considering using <servlet> tag
and for Python script require stuff to be in <script> tag, much like
server side Visual Basic. By sticking to such tags and commands in the
comments as in SSI, figured that most graphical HTML editors would still
be useable.

Of course, I personally don't like the graphical HTML editors anyway.
I would wince when I had to use FrontPage as it would never quite do what
I wanted. At the moment I have a preference for using PHP and good old "vi".
I guess I have to consider what the prospective users of my software would
want to use. Being realistic, I would imagine most may want to stay clear
of graphical HTML editors, but then in a corporate setting, individuals
opinions don't always count. :-(


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 00:23:47 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:23:47 -0400
Subject: file.read Problem
In-Reply-To: <3B8BBA51.5C04026E@fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEKILIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Brian Patton]
> I'm having a problem with file.read.
>
> I'm writing a filter to get data from a binary formatted file so that I
> can import it into other software. I'm running Python 2.1 with the win
> extensions downloaded from ActiveState. Win98 system. Oh, and I've
> opened the file "rb"! ;)
>
> My problem is that when I try to read in a given number of bytes, the
> length of the string returned is rarely the length that is expect.
> Furthermore, if I try to get the data by repeatedly grabbing smaller
> chunks then is seems to step almost randomly through the file.
> ...

Since this is "an impossible problem", I doubt you're going to get anywhere
until you post a complete, self-contained, executable code snippet.
Whatever is going wrong is going wrong due to something you haven't shown
us.

Here's my complete, self-contained, executable code snippet, in file
seek.py:

fFile = open('python.exe', 'rb')

fFile.seek(8000)
while fFile.tell() < 12000:
    test = fFile.read(6)
    print "Length of string read in:", len(test), \
          "Current File Pos:", fFile.tell()

Here I'm running it:

C:\Code\python\PCbuild>python seek.py > seek.txt

Here's what's in seek.txt afterwards:

Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 8006
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 8012
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 8018
... many equally boring lines skipped ...
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 11990
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 11996
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 12002

Everything's fine.  Show us something that isn't, including the open.




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 20 14:47:09 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:47:09 -0500
Subject: problem opening a file on 2.2a1
In-Reply-To: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
References: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <15233.23341.956036.270611@beluga.mojam.com>

    Rajarshi> data = open('data.out','w')

    Rajarshi> works fine. But when I try it froma  script I get the error:

    Rajarshi> Traceback (most recent call last):
    Rajarshi>   File "./p.py", line 12, in ?
    Rajarshi>     data = open('data.out','w')
    Rajarshi> TypeError: an integer is required

I'd insert a print statement right before the call to open:

    print open

to see if it's really the open function you think it is.  Are you perhaps
executing something like

    from os import *

?  The posix module defines an open function with a different signature than
the builtin open function.  In particular, the second argument is a flags
argument that expects an integer.

Very few modules in the standard library (or other places) are designed to
be executed as "from module import *".  The types, Tkinter, and dumbdbm
modules comes to mind.  The os module is definitely not designed to imported
that way.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From paul at gudge.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 14:58:58 2001
From: paul at gudge.demon.co.uk (paul at gudge.demon.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:58:58 -0000
Subject: Installing mod_python.dll under Apache
Message-ID: <9lrmli+3f42@eGroups.com>

I've read a simialr thread on installing python under cgi but I want 
to Python installed with the module so I can use Python in-line with 
the html, like PHP.

I have downloaded mod_python.dll and it is now successfully loading 
but when I goto a .py file the contents of the .py file are printed 
to screen and not processed by Python.

Do I need to add the AddType line? if so how would the line look?

please help, it's been bugging me for 2 days now.

regards,

pgudge




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Wed Aug 22 17:17:10 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:17:10 -0500
Subject: Finding modules in subdirectories of sys.path
References: <3b841921@news.ColoState.EDU>
Message-ID: <to88ed1cncem3c@corp.supernews.com>

Norm
I have not used these packages and I do not know how they install.  But from
my experience in Windows - if you install packages, you should be able to
use modules by importing packages.  so if you have these directories in
sys.path, did you try:
import Physics
for example and see what happens?  Provided you have __init__.py in that
subdirectory it should find it.  Then you can use modules from this package.
Maan

"Norm Wood" <norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu> wrote in message
news:3b841921 at news.ColoState.EDU...
> Hi,
>
> I've installed the NumPy extensions and Scientific Python package into
> subdirectories of my home directory:
>
> /home/me/lib/python2.0/Numeric
> /home/me/lib/python2.0/Scientific
>
>
> The Scientific directory contains a number of subdirectories (Physics,
> Statistics, etc.).  It appears that, in order to import modules from
> these subdirectories, each subdirectory has to be listed explicitly
> in sys.path.  Otherwise, I get an import error.
>
> Is it possible to cause python to search recursively through the
> directories rooted at /home/me/lib/python2.0?  Or is it possible
> to place some sort of index in /home/me/lib/python2.0 so that python
> can locate the modules within the subdirectories without explicitly
> listing each subdirectory in sys.path?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Norm Wood
>
> --
> Norm Wood
>
>      Department of Atmospheric Science
>      Colorado State University
>      norm at atmos.colostate.edu
>      phone:  970-491-3334




From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Thu Aug  2 21:00:33 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 18:00:33 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108021700.70b4ce67@posting.google.com>

tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd) wrote in message news:<f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64 at posting.google.com>...
> > Although with a template system like Cheetah you might be able to map a
> > function to a particular exported method of a service, as far as I can
> > see, it would always be the case that such a function must return text
> > capable of being included into a web page. 
> 
> Cheetah works with any type of data, not just text. It doesn't force
> you to do anything like that.

The documentation when talking about placeholders says that if the value
is not a string, it applies str() to it, or if the value is callable that
it calls it and then applies str() to the result.

> > With PSP, the method of a
> > service object could return some data structure, which the in place code
> > could iterate over to produce the actual HTML.
> 
> Like PSP, Cheetah can iterate over data structures in place.  Please
> take a look at the Cheetah Users' Guide for more information:
> http://www.CheetahTemplate.org/learn.html
> Again, nothing about Cheetah's core is HTML-specific.

Can you be more specific as to where in the documentation. I have looked at
the documentation and found no clear example showing that this can be done.
If it is the macros feature, there is no documentation on it.

> > To this end, approaches relying on Python
> > scripting in some form, such as PSP or PTL may result in a system more
> > able to harness the features of the back end system.
> 
> Cheetah has a plugin that enables PSP, if that's what you really want.
>  However, *SP style coding quickly becomes a tangled mess.  Cheetah
> was designed to provide a cleaner separation of content, graphic
> design and program logic than the *SP languages.

I agree that *SP looks horrible and can become a mess. I think PSP in
particular is potentially worse than others *SP implementations if one
tries to use space or tab indenting ala Python style. Makes editing of
the page potentially complicated.

> > In the architecture I have, I guess I am uncomfortable about having code
> > related to presentation mixed up in the service objects. 
> > I suppose that
> > some service objects may specifically relate to presentation, but in the
> > main I would want to preserve the idea of services returning data related
> > to the model, rather than a view of that model.
> 
> Ditto. That's exactly why I dislike PSP, PHP, etc. and is why we
> created Cheetah.

Huh? I am not sure your comment shows agreement with my thinking. I don't
want presentation code in service objects as those service objects may be
in totally distinct processes from where the web server engine is. Ie., I am
not just extending an existing web server like Apache but putting the web
server in a distributed application. I therefore see some benefit of having
the code which renders the view of the data obtained from the remote service
object in the same place as the HTML template. To this end PSP is possibly
a good approach to solving the problem as it allows the code within the page
to manipulate the raw data structures into its HTML form. My comment wasn't
thus to suggest PSP is bad in principle, although as I have said, it looks
a mess.

The architecture of the system I am dealing with is somewhat different to
systems around. It isn't necessarily easy to capture it in a few words,
so I imagine you might be thinking of a somewhat different model than what
I am. Anyway, will keep looking at what people are suggesting and take note
of peoples comments.


From plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu  Sun Aug 19 18:56:03 2001
From: plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu (plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 22:56:03 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lpg63$q69@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
> How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
> that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
> temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)

	Is there a case where the following rewrite
	would not be valid (in versions of Python
	that don't have get/set-operator support)?
	
	      y.a = wower()
              b,c,d = y.a
              x.e = y.a

	Manoj




From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 18:56:28 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:56:28 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com> <3b8c6396.98182759@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <mmsqotk108mhscebrslums4ln25qsjp3l9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:18:17 GMT, mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) wrote
in comp.lang.python in article <3b8c6396.98182759 at news.laplaza.org>:

:On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:25:51 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net>
:wrote:

::Am I correct, then, in interpreting these together, to mean, that I will
::get greater portability/control if I use fcntl.lockf than if I use
::fcntl.flock? Because, as I read this, fcntl.lockf may work in situations
::where fcntl.flock does not (especially over NFS?).
:
:while 1:
:    print "don't do locks over NFS!"
:
:
:This position may POSSIBLY be able to be softened for NFS V4.
:Mats Wichmann

I appreciate the input/feedback. However, simply "don't do locks over
NFS" is a bit brief. Could you elaborate? Why not? What problems does
this create? Why might the situation improve in NFS V4?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From thomas at gatsoft.no  Fri Aug 10 06:12:08 2001
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:12:08 GMT
Subject: the usage of pickle
References: <egb7nt4ba7iusumbjsd8thqhd0j943c1qf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <YrOc7.402$y9k.170832896@news.telia.no>

AFAIK, pickle doesn't handle code-objects like functions. Use the
marshall-module instead. Ordinary objects like lists, dictionaries etc.
works fine with pickle. ( And by the way, use cPickle for speed. It helps
alot )

thomas

"Dino Hsu" <dino1_nospam at ms1.hinet.net> wrote in message
news:egb7nt4ba7iusumbjsd8thqhd0j943c1qf at 4ax.com...
> Dear all,
>
> When I try pickle.dump(...), it always fails, anyone show me how?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> >>> def f():
> return '123456'
> >>> f
> <function f at 01215F2C>
>
> >>> pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#60>", line 1, in ?
>     pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
>   File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 939, in dump
>     Pickler(file, bin).dump(object)
>   File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 104, in __init__
>     self.write = file.write
> AttributeError: write
>
> Dino
>




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 21 12:06:21 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:06:21 +0200
Subject: Python under Windows:  free cl.exe?
References: <13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tt0ul9.jp.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 20 Aug 2001 14:46:08 -0700, J.Jacob <joost_jacob at hotmail.com> wrote:
>subject: Windows Compiler to build Python and related stuff
>
>
>Where can we download the (free commandline version) microsoft C++ 6.0
>compiler cl.exe and nmake.exe?  We need it if we want to do
>extending/embedding C(++) and many 3rd party Python packages want you to use
>cl.exe and nmake.exe

Open source ones? Maybe you should friendly suggest that the maintainer switch
to distutils? Or write the setup.py file yourself and submit a patch? You can
then use GNU Borland and MS compilers on Windows without further configuration.

>The cygwin effort of using a free GNU C++ compiler for building Python looks
>great but there are just too much systems/packages/modules (Python itself too)
>based on the microsoft compiler with makefiles for nmake and nothing for the
>Gnu compilers.  Too bad i think !

Ack. Anybody managed to compile Python with mingw32? I only get strange errors
when trying to. Maybe I should submit a bug report at Sourceforge.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sun Aug 12 07:30:41 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:30:41 GMT
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
References: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>
Message-ID: <3b766809.2155375@news.t-online.de>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:03:39 +0200, "Chris Eidhof" <chris at eidhof.com>
wrote:

>Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under win98, the
>webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but it didn't work.

A *simple* webserver in python : 

---- snip begin ----
from SimpleHTTPServer import *
test()
---- snip end ----

Its in your \python21\lib, hehe.

On the other hand: Apache works fine with python (at least on Windows
2000). Can you explain what didn't work ? If you've tried mod_python
(from www.modpython.org) you cannot easily bind "standard CGI" scripts
because mod_python has a different syntax (you're dealing
with apache requests etc.)


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 16:47:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:47:10 -0400
Subject: Tim & Guido in the top 10
In-Reply-To: <15238.46339.82050.850655@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOENNLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Skip Montanaro]
> Just happened to be on the sourceforge.net home page and noticed
> that Tim & Guido are the fifth and ninth ranked users, respectively.
> I don't know quite what that means

Sounds like two off-by-4 errors to me <wink>.

> or how they distill everything down to one  number (ah, I see, other
> users rate them),

Although different users' "votes" are given different weights, depending on
how other users ranked *them*.  So get a group of 6 friends together and
give each other top rankings.  Since this is a very lightly used gimmick
(e.g., my page says 16 people ranked me, out of 238,509 registered users),
the SF developers may well have voted themselves into the top slots forever,
simply by virtue of all *using* this system.

> but I assume it's a good thing.

Indeed yes:  salaries at Zope Corporation are determined by multiplying the
reciprocal of each employee's SF Site Ranking by a magic constant.  Via
optimization analysis, I then determined it was a net win to sign up for the
SourceForge Site Ranking Payroll Deduction Program, by means of which my
score is artificially boosted so long as I keep current with convenient
bi-weekly payments.

> The rest of the PythonLabs team are in the hunt as well: Barry at #17,
> Fred at #21, and Jeremy at #22.  Overall, Python is the fourth most
> active project on sourceforge.net.

Heh -- just *try* to find a definition for "active".  Last time someone did,
it turned up a floating-point error in their formula <wink>.

> So I figure I'll go rate the gang.  Under Follow-Through/Reliability,
> the choices are: None, Politician, Firefighter, Robot.  Is there any
> question?> ;-)

Not if the category were Emotional Warmth, no.

then-let's-vote-to-make-each-other-gods-ly y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  1 01:45:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:45:35 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <ohM97.57080$EP6.13418898@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKELFLCAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Courageous]
> http:\\www.smallscript.com. Execution times within 1-2X of C.

[Terry Reedy]
> This site has about zero to do with Python.  Main page include Python
> as (planned) secondary language.  Contents links Python back to PEP
> index page (bizarre).  'Python for AOS' page is under construction.
>
> Where did you find fabulous Python compilation results you keep
> reporting?

I believe it originally came from this cryptic tease:

    Python is a big part for the execution engine, this is a new area.
    The Smalltalk VM runs Python 10 to 100x faster.

at

 http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com/html/SmalltalkSolutions2001%232.html

first referenced in this c.l.py thread:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?ic=1&th=b121faa695c8b6fa

I haven't seen more than that single second-hand claim (except for Joe's
charming belief that if he repeats it often enough, Guido will get pissed
off enough to make it a reality now and for free <wink>).

every-jit-project-is-at-least-a-year-late-and-severely-underperforms-
    expectations-for-at-least-a-year-after-that-ly y'rs  - tim




From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 20:44:54 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 17:44:54 -0700
Subject: passing FILE pointers to a non-MSVC++ compiled extension type???
References: <e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f@posting.google.com> <8OFc7.200$rV6.46790@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108101644.7a1b42e0@posting.google.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<8OFc7.200$rV6.46790 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>...
> See the thread including
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/286480 at yahoo.com
> 
> for a fairly thorough airing of this topic.
> 
> now-activstate's-mail-archives-appear-in-google-ly y'rs  - steve

i dont quite follow.  ive checked out that thread and it seems to deal
with input/output redirection from within python.  my problem lies at
the c api level (iow, i need a c fnc, not a python
statement/function/method/whatever is decided for redirection).


From dalke at acm.org  Mon Aug 13 17:32:35 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:32:35 +0100
Subject: Another two examples of using changing classes
References: <637b94bc.0108131426.48c84b3d@posting.google.com> <O_0e7.101053$EP6.25883351@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <9la9mr$ghg$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
>A third way is to have a 'connected' variable and make every function
>conditional on the state variable.  Changing class is much cleaner.

Perhaps similar to this post from guido at cwi.nl in 1992?
  http://www.cwi.nl/www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1992/0293.html

] Suppose we have a class whose objects have some kind of state which
] modifies the meaning of one or more methods. Traditionally this is
] done by changing a flag which is tested by the affected methods.

] A variant would require that an instance's __class__ attribute be
] writeable [...] In fact the mere possibility of this makes me
] doubt the read-only-ness of __class__ (or __bases__, for that matter).

<wink>

(Ahh, behold the power of Google to dreg up old words. :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 11:40:03 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:40:03 -0700
Subject: __getitem__?
References: <fcc1f856.0108240724.1e884737@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9m5soa$gsp9$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Hi Joshua,

First, start using spaces instead of tabs when you post.  It makes it easier
as we won't need to reconstruct your intent.

Anyway, break it down:

a[0][0] = 1

getitem is returning the asked for element a[0], and then you are assigning
to the [0] part of it.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Joshua Tompkins" <joshua at bladeagency.com> wrote in message
news:fcc1f856.0108240724.1e884737 at posting.google.com...
> Hi.
>
> As sort of an experiment, I'm implementing a multi-dimensional list
> object in python (I'm not at sure that there's any real value in this,
> as there's probably already stuff like it out there, but hey, I'm
> bored).  Here's the code (27 lines):
>
> class mdList:
> version = 0.15
>
> def __init__( self, xBound, yBound ):
> print "mdList version " + str( self.version )
> self.dataList = []
>
> self.xLength = xBound
> self.yLength = yBound
>
> i = 0
>
> while i < xBound:
> j = 0
> yList = []
>
> while j < yBound:
> yList.append( 0 )
> j += 1
>
> if len( yList ) > 0:
> self.dataList.append( yList )
> i += 1
> return None
>
> def __getitem__( self, key ):
> return self.dataList[key]
>
> My question is about the __getitem__ method.  After I added it, I
> could access the dataList internal variable like this (where a is the
> class instance):
>
> a[0][0]
>
> That's pretty neat (but is that how I should be doing it?  I don't
> understand how I can access the second array dimension when there's
> only one argument passed to the method), but here's the real question:
>  why does this (see below) work?
>
> a[0][0] = 1
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> -joshua



From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Thu Aug  9 12:21:20 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:21:20 +0200
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <003301c120ef$79e61940$e7bd6ac2@zko>

From: Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk>
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements

> Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and deleting 
> elements that don't meet a certain criteria.

some_list = [ x for x in some_list if some_test(x) ]

gzeljko





From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 17 13:46:19 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 12:46:19 -0500
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com> <1rzo8yn4e0.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9ljgdm023oi@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1r8zgimvf8.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    Alex> Yes, but not with Boost Python -- generally such weirdness
    Alex> results from wrong reference count handling in the extension
    Alex> (addref/decref not correctly matched) and Boost Python in my
    Alex> experience handles those for you smoothly and without
    Alex> errors.  Strange...

If the problem rears its ugly head again, any suggestions for how to
go about locating the source of it?

What do you think it means that even the famed Ctrl-C fails to abort
the freeze.... ?

Thanks,
John Hunter




From g.r.garnett at worldnet.att.net  Thu Aug 23 00:42:44 2001
From: g.r.garnett at worldnet.att.net (George Garnett)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:42:44 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8R%g7.29820$1p1.2181194@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Well, I 'did' ask for it (the criticisms), didn't I?

Anyway, the issue is what is the future of jpython, and what is its future
relative to JSP (and also relative to javascript, which is also developing
into its own full language)? Also, what role should each language play in a
design, if they are used together. I suggest looking on-line for computer
magazine articles rather than relying on user's opinions (including myself).
Try to find sources that aren't focused solely on java (such as 'java
world') or python (such as 'python world'?). No doubt jpython will fill a
specific market niche just like java. However, I've seen many companies go
belly up and I wonder about jpython. How can they compete with an upcoming
powerhouse like JSP in the long term? Java will be very time consuming to
come up to speed (what with all the java computers in the book store and
their sub-specialties such as JDBC, Java threads, etc, etc). If you need an
immediate job, jpython and the related technologies (html/javascript/etc)
may very well be the way to go for now. However, I still think the future is
java (mind you, I'm not biased in any way!).

By the way, how many jphyton programmers are there in the U.S., and is the
market for it growing or shrinking? I looked at www.atlanta.computerjobs.com
and couldn't find any. Not that their aren't any, I just took a very quick
look. I'm asking a question and not criticizing. Is there a job posting site
for jpython or a market analysis for its future?

By the way, for all you python people out there, I did read 'thinking in
java' by Eckel and about 1/4 of a book on jpython (ok, so I borrowed the
book). I've read about 25 books on java an its related languages so far. I
guess I was just turned off by its C language like low level programming
syntax. I prefer java's low level syntax instead (again, not that I'm biased
in any way!).



"atonal" <watchtheclosingdoors at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:48256545.0108221258.5882c94f at posting.google.com...
> i have beginning-to-intermediate level vb6/vba programming skills and
> would like to find employment before long in a technical capacity.
>
> something tells me that vb is not my ticket, and i am intrigued by
> python.
>
> for now i am somewhat wedded to ms windows and ms office, but i gather
> that python can be used in many ways in place of vba, and that in
> general it would offer more career opportunities.
>
> anyone agree or disagree?  advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 28 16:46:56 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:46:56 -0500
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999027702.15146.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <too0t8tc1k3c8c@corp.supernews.com>

"Shane Anglin" <shane.anglin at mtni.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.999027702.15146.python-list at python.org...
>
Shane
I see what you want to do.  Try this:

> Non-working example:
> --app1.py:
> print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app2.py'>
> print '<input type="text" size="10" name="var1">'
> print "<P><INPUT type='submit' value='Submit'></P>"
> </FORM>
> #SUBMIT
>
> --app2.py:
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> VAR1 = form["var1"].value

Now, we have to 'build' the hidden input!
Hidden = '<input type=hidden name=' + VAR1 + '>'

> #some database stuff happens
> print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app3.py'>

Now use :
print Hidden
instead of:
> print '<input type="hidden" name=VAR1>'   # this doesn't work..it seds a
> literal string of VAR1 and not the variable
Maan





From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 08:22:05 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:22:05 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <9kp3hs026g6@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn9n0lum.im5.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9krbgf02cfq@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn9n0lum.im5.quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu...
    ...
> >> fp.read_line
> >> s := fp.last_string
> >>
> >> I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety
or
> >not.
> >
> >To me, it seems cleverly designed to maximize threading
> >problems/race-conditions/horrid-bugs.
    ...
> One counter argument is that if state-changing operations are isolated and
> seperate from queries it's easier to lock your state changing operations,
and
> then let the rest of the code that uses the queries run in parallel.

But too often the 'query' I really NEED to do implies state-change
as well, such as "now get me the NEXT random number" (or NEXT line
from the fine, or NEXT item in whatever iterator).  Separating
a (locked) advance-iterator-and-don't-tell-me from a just-tell-me-
the-current-state is a crazy way to work with iterators of any
kind, because you'll _always_ need to lock the operation-pair to
'atomize' it, so it SHOULD be packaged up as a single operation
in the first place!

> Presumably Meyer has more rationale in OOSC so I don't have an opinion
until
> I've read that (though I've found some of Meyer's rationales unconvincing
in
> the past).

He's a *very good* rationalizer, but some of his language-design
ideas are so (expletive deleted) that not even a GREAT rationalizer
would manage to convince people with a criticial bent (it would
take an INSANELY GREAT rationalizer, and there's very few of
THOSE around -- Knuth, Raymond, maybe Kernighan, and who else...?).


Alex





From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Thu Aug 16 10:47:07 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:47:07 -0400
Subject: [ANN] PyDO 1.0.1 Object-Relational mapping released!
Message-ID: <20010816104707.C27040@starmedia.net>

Go to the PyDO page for more details:
    http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/pydo.html
Download it here:
    http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/skunkweb/PyDO-1.0.1.tar.gz

What's new?
--------------------
* now works with Python 2.2a1 
* many fixes to the PostgreSQL driver

What is PyDO?

PyDO is a Object-Relational database access tool. Unlike many other
O-R database access tools, PyDO:

    * easy to wrap your head around
    * doesn't constrain your schema to what it thinks databases should
      look like
    * if you need/want to override the way it does it's work, it's not
      a major surgical effort
    * has tools that will, given a database connection (for Oracle and
      PostgreSQL anyway) can do a lot of the work for you in writing
      your data classes.
    * like any good tool, makes the easy stuff a no-brainer and makes
      the harder things easier too.
    * works with more than one database (currently Oracle, PostgreSQL
      and MySQL, but others are definitely possible)
    * is easy to figure out how it works and when it does things so
      that you won't piss off your DB admin

Cheers,
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From lee.reilly at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug  8 17:11:36 2001
From: lee.reilly at ntlworld.com (Lee)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:11:36 +0100
Subject: generating SQL - problem
References: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <3B71AB08.F8EAE11E@ntlworld.com>

Okay, I assume that python strings have a maximum size => this could be causing the
problem. Why is not throwing an exception? I'll try and store all the SQLs in a
list, but is there an easier / more efficient way?

Cheers,
Lee



From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Thu Aug  9 12:17:18 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:17:18 -0400
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLEEKPCDAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLKEKPCDAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Whoops!  This should be

list=[x for x in list if x <= y]

Too much SQL writing lately has melted by brain! ;)

Rich


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Rich Harkins
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:09 PM
> To: Python-List
> Subject: RE: iterating through lists to delete elements
> 
> 
> How about (in Python 2.x-ish):
> 
> list=[x for x in list where x <= y]  # assuming you want to keep 
> everything
> <= y.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Sat Aug 11 22:28:57 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 02:28:57 GMT
Subject: Perk - Python Internet Klient
References: <EX2d7.19728$Ke7.602870@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <JRld7.252466$EF2.31908844@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Relfx <relfx at hotmail.com> menulis:
| I'm trying to figure is client out but I'm really not sure I should extract
| it to.
| i'm running windows 98. Can someone help me please. Here is the link and the
| information on this client from it's homepage.
| 
| http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/perk.html

Well, I can help you, since I happen to be the guy who wrote it. :)  But
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking...are you asking *where* to
extract the files to?  If so, you should be able to install it anywhere
you want, as long as you have python installed and .py files set to open
in the python interpreter (which the Windows installer takes care of for
you, IIRC).


-- 
Cliff Crawford                        http://www.sowrong.org/
"If only you could see what I have seen through your eyes..."


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 15:59:15 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <3B84048B.A9355D0E@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221555530.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Jeff Shannon wrote:

>
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>
> > #! /usr/bin/python
> >
> > import os
> > import string
> >
> > print os.path.dirname(string.split(`os`, "'")[3])
> > ---
> >
> > I tested it under 1.5.2. Does it also work under 2.x?
>
> It seems to (though I used `os`.split() instead of importing
> string)--I'm using 2.0
>
> However, I would be worried about this being somewhat fragile, as it's
> depending on the specific format of a module's repr()--it seems to be
> constant across versions, but I'd hate to presume that it will stay so.
>
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International

I found one that might be a little more portable:

---
#! /ur/bin/python

import os
import imp

print os.path.dirname(imp.find_module('os')[1])
---

It removes the dependency on repr(), but requires that the imp module hasn't
been sillily masked (I doubt that masking os would happen TOO often...).

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 08:35:24 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:35:24 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <cphevdfawz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B777A2A.A9D234B9@chello.nl>
Message-ID: <cp4rrcf8b8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Roeland Rengelink <r.b.rigilink at chello.nl> writes:

> I didn't mean to let object.__new__ call the init, which indeed
> looses flexibility What I did mean is the following change to
> type_call. I Have no idea what side effects I may have missed here,
> but it does exactly what I want.
[...]
>                 /* if the user defines his own __new__, 
>                    let him call __init_ explicitly */
[...]

The problem with this is that *all* overrides of __new__ would get the
new behavior.

If you want an initializer that's called by your class's __new__, just
give it a different name than __init__.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Fri Aug  3 15:58:44 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:58:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032334440.5521-100000@rnd.onego.ru> (message
	from Roman Suzi on Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:40:55 +0400 (MSD))
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032334440.5521-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <200108031958.f73Jwi422860@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

 >From: Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
 >
 >Have you looked at Freshmeat close enough? I thought there
 >were several tools to make multi-machine administration easy.

        With the possible exception of Ganymede, none that I
especially care for.  I'm willing to consider simply gluing several
apps together (especially if it involves cfengine), but most of these
tools have wildly varying approaches.

 >Or maybe you just want to install Radius and let all AAA to
 >be done there. There are several Freeware variants available,
 >xtRadius for example.

        This is only one part of the equation.

 >I have not tried, but NIS and LDAP are also Open Source.

        This is true, but these tools solve very specific problems.
We do in fact use NIS here (all praise secure rpcbind) but this is
little more than a glorified networked /etc/passwd file.  Same for
LDAP, which is basically a database.  These are good *back* end tools,
which I expect any higher level tools to interact with nicely.  The
whole point of a system management infrastructure is to make putting
friendlier faces on these tasks easier and to make different
subsystems chat, at least as I see it.  For example, NIS doesn't give
me a way to link a user (/etc/passwd) with a specific machine, or
identify which printer (/etc/printcap) is closest to her.  LDAP
probably could.

 >Plus (if I understood correctly) you need backup solution. This is also
 >available from Freshmeat. Or you can buy BRU or something.

        We currently have a fine backup system, and I'm not sure how
I'd fit that in.  I don't doubt someone would try, given a chance.

 >When selecting tools, look how scriptable they are.

        I agree.  Most fail miserably, or use exotic scripting
languages of their own.  COSadmin does a pretty good job, though, and
has somehow turned Unix pipes and shell scripts into a relational
database.

        What I desperately want is a way to make all these various
systems adminsitration tasks and databases available in a reasonably
consistent way.

--
wm



From henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 08:52:30 2001
From: henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com (Henrik Ekelund)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 05:52:30 -0700
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
Message-ID: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>

We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 22:09:30 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:09:30 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997814543.3544.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n1mjnt8uk3n8svdjvqt50o0hfkh6dood21@4ax.com>

>But in the end it is only HIM, not THEY who decides what is implemented.

This is NOT correct. Guido decides what _Guido_ will implement. To some
extent, Guido probably decides what a few others will implement, but this is
because they have volunteered to let him do that.

The objection made to the beginning of this thread was made because the
original poster had a sense of _entitlement_ to Python and by extension a
sense of entitlement to what Guido, Tim, et al. will work on. But no entitlement
exists, no obligations, or duties, or even responsibilities.


C//



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Sat Aug 25 20:18:04 2001
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:18:04 -0400
Subject: Whats wrong with this code?
Message-ID: <3B88403B.9BF2CADE@telocity.com>

it will connect; and send the data; but i am not receiving anything? it
did work prior to me tinkering with it; but it is now back to how it
was; and no cigar?

any help would greatly be appreciated,

Adonis

-- code --

# main
try:
    pirc.connect((pirc_serv, pirc_port))
except socket.error, (code, desc):
    print 'Socket Error: %d:%s'%(code, desc)
    sys.exit()

print 'Connected'
pirc_data = pirc.makefile()
pirc.send('NICK %s\r'%pirc_nick)
pirc.send('USER %s %s %s :%s\r'%(pirc_user, socket.gethostname(),
pirc_serv, pirc_name))

while 1:
    data = pirc_data.readlines()
    if data:
        print data



From adam at home.com  Sat Aug 25 17:03:38 2001
From: adam at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:03:38 GMT
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251530310.2218-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>

Hi python people -
	I was trying to find a gfx package for Python, and I tried it.
I have python aliased to /usr/local/bin/python2.1 and running python on
their examples said it couldn't find the module gtk.  But after
unalias-ing it, they worked, and it is cool!  I would rather use
Python2.1 if I can, but I don't use it's features, so I don't care much.
But, do other people use PyGTK with 2.1?


-- 
     Your mouse has moved.  Windows must be restarted for the change
     to take effect.  Reboot now?
               -- Bram Moolenaar

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From jknapka at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 10 16:05:04 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:05:04 GMT
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <mailman.997452856.7709.python-list@python.org>
	 <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <3B7404D8.34E16DDD@earthlink.net>

"Cris A. Fugate" wrote:
> 
> Hi, I am trying to port some Tcl stuff to Python. Its kind of disturbing
> that Python cannot handle scope. Sure you have namespaces, but that
> doesn't help in this situation. In Tcl I would just say..
> 
> proc swap {a b} {
>    upvar a x
>    upvar b y
>    set z x
>    set x y
>    set y z
> }
> swap a b
> 
> But in Python I have to say..
> 
> def swap (a, b):
>    return b, a
> a,b = swap(a,b)

And the python version is quite a bit shorter
and more obvious!

> -or-
> 
> def swap ():
>    global a,b
>    x=a
>    a=b
>    b=x
> swap()

Python has perfectly reasonable scoping (local,global,builtin).
It merely refuses to allow you access willy-nilly to arbitrary
stack frames, which is a good thing IMO. The fact that Tcl
requires such hackery in some situations is one of the things
I don't like about it (although I like Tcl a lot in general).
If you want to give a Python function access to its caller's data,
you pass references, not names.

> I dont know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Tcl cannot
> handle multiple assignment, but Python cannot handle scoping.
> It makes functions less powerful, but it also seems to make the
> code more readable (IMHO).
> 
> BTW, I also noticed that python is rather weak in variable
> substitution. In Tcl I can say..
> 
> set x 5; set y "x"
> expr $$y + 1
> =>6
> 
> I cant do this in python without resorting to something like
> dictionaries..
> 
> y={'x':'z', 'z':5}
> y.get(y.get('x')) + 1
> =>6

That's because Python objects have types, unlike Tcl
variables. In Tcl, everything is just a string, variable
and command substitution is basically a textual notion,
and the interpreter does whatever's necessary to convert
strings into whatever representation is appropriate
for the operation being performed. (Even though Tcl's now
bytecode-interpreted, the conceptual model of stringness
is still pretty much intact. Otherwise it'd be a
different language.) In Python, variables
are names of abstract objects with types and values that
can be manipulated only via the operations provided by the
language.

Tcl and Python are really just totally different. You
shouldn't expect to be able to literally translate from
one to the other :)

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# 2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt A


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Aug  6 12:21:00 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 16:21:00 GMT
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <ku66c2r1ha.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqtpt.3e8.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <9kmg5c$h6e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov):
|> In article <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
|> sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:
|> 
|>| Anyway, this solution doesn't work in 2.1 - termios module doesn't
|>| have this attribute, (TERMIOS is deprecated and doesn't have it either).
|
| >>> termios.TIOCGWINSZ
| Traceback (most recent call last):
|   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
|   AttributeError: 'termios' module has no attribute 'TIOCGWINSZ'
|
| Doh :/ What could be the problem? Anyone know?

Python tries to analyze C include files to get those symbols.
Amazing that it works as well as it does, but most ioctls like
that are beyond its grasp, because they're actually macros that
Python doesn't know how to evaluate.  I'm kind of surprised if
anyone gets TIOCGWINSZ, but one way that could happen is if the
party responsible for the distribution went and added symbols
that the standard procedure couldn't get.  I append a program
that generates values for ioctls, using the C compiler.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
----------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/awk -f
BEGIN {
	print "#include <stdio.h>" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	print "#include <sys/ioctl.h>" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	print "" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	print "int" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	print "main(int argc, char **argv)" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	print "{" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	while (getline < "/usr/include/sys/ioctl.h") {
		if ($1 == "#define" && $2 !~ /)/ && $3 ~ /^_IO/) {
			print "#ifdef", $2 > "ioctl_cxd.c"
			print " printf(\"" $2 " = 0x%x\\n\", " $2 ");" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
			print "#endif" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
		}
	}
	print " return 0;" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	print "}" > "ioctl_cxd.c"
	close("ioctl_cxd.c")
	system("cc ioctl_cxd.c -o ioctl_cxd && ./ioctl_cxd");
}


From g_will at cyberus.ca  Tue Aug  7 09:47:53 2001
From: g_will at cyberus.ca (Gordon Williams)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:47:53 -0400
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
Message-ID: <000d01c11f47$8f954cb0$6f86fea9@wnt20337>

If you are looking for a tutorial with a bunch of simple examples you can
try:

http://www.cyberus.ca/~g_will/pyExtenDL.shtml

This is using the free Borland C/C++ compiler and not Microsoft, but the
ideas should be the same.  There are also some references at the end of the
paper that may be useful to you.

Regards,

Gordon Williams




From doug.fort at verizon.net  Mon Aug 27 04:36:57 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:36:57 +0100
Subject: child process
References: <3B89F556.70500@senux.com.NOSPAM>
Message-ID: <3b8a06a2_4@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit



Brian Lee wrote:



> Hi,

> 

> I made a child process by fork function. When the mother

> process is killed, the child process is killed also.

> 

> But I want child process not to be killed even the mother

> process is killed. How can I child process run independently?

> 

> Any examples code?

> 

> 

Herre's what we use at www.stressmy.com. I think this is Unix only: on 

Windows you need a Service.

-- 

Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>

http://www.dougfort.net
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: launcher.py
Type: text/x-java
Size: 1339 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010827/c37199e5/attachment.java>

From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 19 04:30:57 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 04:30:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Copyright Madness
In-Reply-To: <QkKf7.3608$Qh2.775818@typhoon.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108190424400.4118-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Larry wrote:

> Hi,
>
>      I'm considering using Python 2.1.1 for a commercial application that I
> intend to market and sell for profit.  I've explored python.org and found
> only confusion.  It seems that earlier versions of Python were not as
> copyright restrictive as 2.1.1.  Would my plan be a violation of the GPL?
> Would I have to distribute my program for free?  I'm pretty confused on this
> matter, and I really don't want to call a lawyer.  Thanks.
>
> L

The GPL only puts restrictions on two things:

1) Linked works
2) Derived works

Neither original programs written in Python nor original modules written in
Python or C violate either of these.

  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Mon Aug  6 04:20:16 2001
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:20:16 +0200
Subject: wget like module
Message-ID: <9klggu$17n$1@news.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

I'm looking for a module that grabs urls (like httpget or wget) and can
handle cookies.

Any pointers?

Thanks.

Miki.




From maxm at normik.dk  Mon Aug 27 05:13:11 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:13:11 +0200
Subject: zero padded string
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197E03@exchange>

> From: Hans Nowak [mailto:hnowak at cuci.nl]

> Do you mean something like this?
> 
> >>> '%09d' % 42
> '000000042'

I meant exactly like that :-)


> Or, if all strings are actually numbers, you can convert them 
> to ints and sort 
> them:
> 
> >>> z = ["4", "42", "4100", "411"]
> >>> z = map(int, z)
> >>> z.sort()
> >>> z
> [4, 42, 411, 4100]

Unfortunately that is not aplicable in this case.

Thanks Max M



From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Tue Aug  7 11:30:21 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:30:21 GMT
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <9kj96l$vub$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <9e231a88.0108062140.1434c3fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hQTb7.223735$T97.27262610@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Lang <bob at tharin.com> menulis:
| 
| In short, does anyone know how to submit data to a script, have the
| script run, and then load another page with the values still intact
| with no user interaction (other than the first click)?  Thanks again.

A simple way would be to do the following in your first script:

    print "Location: new_script.py?year=%s&month=%s&day=%s\n\n" \
                                    % (year, month, day)

(IOW just pass the values you need as a GET request in your redirect)
But if you're doing anything more complicated than that you'll probably
want a session management library of some sort.  The basic idea is that
you generate a unique ID for each user when they log in, and store this
ID on the client as a cookie (so that the ID gets sent back to you on
every request); then, on the server store/retrieve whatever variables
you need in a database under the ID.


-- 
Cliff Crawford                           http://www.sowrong.org/
"Today's Goths, who generally tend to be in their teens and 20s,
have nothing to do with the Germanic Visigoths of Europe in the
third and fourth centuries A.D."               -- Jimmy Stewart


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 10:27:05 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:27:05 -0500
Subject: enhancing slicing
In-Reply-To: <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
        <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15237.4793.979091.373522@beluga.mojam.com>

    graham> In article <9m2sij$1f8s$1 at ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>, juanv at posta.unizar.es 
    graham> (Juan Vali?o) wrote:

    >> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
    >> v[5 # 2]
    >> Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]

    graham> I don't think # is right, because it's already used for
    graham> comments.  But perhaps :][: would do the trick.  So it'd be v[5
    graham> :][: 2].  It's more complex, but looks nice.  And doesn't
    graham> introduce any new punctuation into the language.  Shall I start
    graham> on the PEP?

Would never fly.  There is already semantic meaning associated with v[5:]
and v[5:][:2].  Adding spaces and making ":][:" an operator would just break
things.  What would you call it?  "+" is the "addition operator".  

    graham> Would my suggestions be much harder to implement?

Somewhat harder than you imagine, yes. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From doug.fort at verizon.net  Tue Aug 21 09:35:42 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:35:42 +0100
Subject: reducing if statements and error handling
References: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8263ad$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Jeff wrote:

> Another easy newbie question here...  Suppose I have a method that
> accepts a string (called 'value') as an argument.  I want the method
> to check to see if the contents of the string is all numbers.  Here's
> my logic:
> 
> def checkvalue(value):
>    if value.isdigit():
>         print 'success: ' + value + ' is a valid entry'
>         return 1
>    else:
>         print 'error: ' + value + ' is NOT a valid entry'
>         return -1
> 
> Questions:
> 1) can I reduce this "if" logic down to one statement, perhaps using
> lambdas?
> 2) is there a recommended approach for throwing errors?  In this case,
> I'd want to throw an error if the text is not a number and stop
> processing.  Can I define a custom exception to do that?  Should I
> catch the error in the logic that called the method and throw the
> exception there if the method returns a "-1", or should I throw the
> exception here?
>               
> Thanks!
> Jeff
> 

Instead of the whole checkvalue function, why not say

try:
    number = int(value)
except ValueError, instance:
    print instance

With regards to number 2), I find that when I use exceptions judiciously I 
don't need to have functions return a 'success' value. You can define 
custom exceptions easily. It's a good idea to derive them from Exception, 
but not absolutely neccessary.
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 17:20:35 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:20:35 GMT
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:34:12 -0500, Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote:

>Running Python 2.1
>
>def a():
>    return b
>
>exec "a()" in {'b':1, 'a':a}
>
>b doesn't seem to passed as a global into the function a.
>
This seems possible:
 >>> exec """def a():
 ...    print 'from a()'
 ...    return b
 ... print a()
 ... """ in {'b':1, 'a':a}
 from a()
 1

I'd guess the dictionary for globals used by the function is
determined by the context of the execution of the def?



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Aug 14 16:15:34 2001
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:15:34 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <9larpb$6knlu@owl.le.ac.uk> <3B79632D.A06275A1@home.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-B2F9BF.13153414082001@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3B79632D.A06275A1 at home.net>,
 Chris Barker <chrishbarker at home.net> wrote:

> There are a couple of missing elements still: a good interactive Canvas
> being the most obvious, I'm sure there are others. (to be fair, wx has a
> number of nice high level widgets that TK doesn't, most notably the
> wxGrid)

I would think a pre-built Mac port is a much more obvious omission.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From stephen_purcell at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 02:56:29 2001
From: stephen_purcell at yahoo.com (Steve Purcell)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 23:56:29 -0700
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com> <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com> <e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8@posting.google.com> <CWnc7.240992$EF2.29452474@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <m3ae18ewlu.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <309094c8.0108092256.393fc43b@posting.google.com>

Andrew Markebo <flognat at flognat.myip.org> wrote in message news:<m3ae18ewlu.fsf at localhost.localdomain>...
> Nobody into doing a browser-class that can take care of this :-) Sort
> of, just fire up a browser send it an url, and it takes care of
> cookie-handling and so on??

There's code at http://webunit.sourceforge.net/ that will do this for you.

Best wishes,

-Steve


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 16:24:52 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 00:24:52 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <3b6d9419_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108060021420.7860-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 5 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:

>Roman Suzi wrote:
>
>> On 5 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:
>>
>>>>From SlashDot: http://www.a-i.com/challenge/. A contest for developing
>>>game-playing bots. I really want to write intelligent agents in Python,
>>>and this sounds like an interesting exercise.
>>>
>>>IMHO the extreme flexibility of data structures and procedures makes
>>>Python a superb language for AI (whatever that is)
>>
>> To be good for AI, language must have logic programming support.
>> (I wonder if Guido thinks in this direction 'cause this requires adding
>> new keywords ;-)
>>
>> Anyway, it could be nice to see some logic-programming aids
>> for Python. It could save stalled Catalog-SIG and help with
>> Distutils and other logic/knowledge-base/AI intensive tasks.
>>
>> It is already possible to express assertions/predicates using
>> Python data-structures, but the solver engine comparable to
>> Prolog is to be written. Or, yes, Python needs larger
>> sys.getrecursionlimit() for such tasks...
>>
>> So, it will be interesting to see such results!
>>
>> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
>
>I'm not convinced that logic programming == AI. I'm more of a bottom-up
>genetic algorithm fan myself.

Well, "I" could be different. I always thought having logic is necessary
to be intelligent. Evolution is not intelligent, but it solves problem.
Probably, it could be called Artificial Intuition.

>The term 'AI' carries so much emotional baggage now that it sets people
>(including me) off on their prepared rants rather than stimulating thought.
>
>I think we can use Python to get computers to do 'cool stuff'. Cool Python
>Stuff doesn't need to look like Prolog or Haskell or Icon. I think this
>Learning Machine Challenge is a chance to do some cool stuff. I, for one,
>intend to approach it without the constraints of academic AI. If you have
>the time, I hope you can do some cool stuff too (by your own definition of
>cool).


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug  7 01:37:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 01:37:50 -0400
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <oqu1zlnkga.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEOOLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> The 'automatic' parallelizers needed so much hand-holding and source
> tweaking to work halfway-right that it was much less work to structure
> the parallel-computation aspects explicitly (well, on a FEW big CPU's,
> at least; I had no real experience with arrays of a LOT of
> middling CPU's).

[Fran?ois Pinard]
> My own experience was with Cray FORTRAN.  It is true that there were
> many functions you could use to have better control over how things were
> generated.  Your whole DO loops needed to be rather simple if you wanted
> them to be turned automatically into a few vector instructions.

CFT was, for most of its life, in fact limited to vectorizing loops with a
single basic block -- it gave up if they were fancier than that.  CFT77
relaxed those restrictions over the years.  I worked on both, and my
clearest memory of the first CFT77 release is of the bitching and bitching
we endured because compile-time had dropped from CFT's 200,000 lines/minute
to CFT77's 100,000.  Never mind that it was doing global optimization while
its predecessor didn't, it was just unbearable that recompiling the world
should take 6 minutes instead of 3.  That's the last time I took users
seriously <wink>.

After years of writing higher-powered vectorizers and parallelizers at Kuch
and Associates, Michael Wolfe returned to academia.  He was shocked to
discover that virtually *none* of his university's code auto-parallelized
when he first tried it.  From that he deduced an obvious <wink> truth:  the
real gain achieved thru auto-vectorizing/parallelizing compilers was that
they taught users *how* to write code clearly worth vectorizing and
parallelizing.  Indeed, nothing made a geek happier than staying up all
night dreaming up ways to get one more "loop vectorized" msg out of the
compiler!

The long-term thriving businesses in this field didn't even try to perform
magic, and Intel has taken much the same approach with processor "multimedia
extensions" (newspeak for feeble little vector registers <0.5 wink>):  if
you want the speed enough to call their highly hand-optimized libraries to
get it, you can have it.  Else you're out of luck unless you wrestle with
VTune and assembler yourself.

downright-pythonic-in-its-practical-wisdom-ly y'rs  - tim




From patio87 at aol.com  Sat Aug 11 01:10:37 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 05:10:37 GMT
Subject: Newbee question here. 
Message-ID: <20010811011037.21887.00002980@ng-dd1.aol.com>

When I downloaded Medusa, and I had finished winziping it I got like 50 of
those snake icons and they all did the same thing. They all just went into
Python for like a half second and went out. I have no Idea on how to use Medusa
If someone could help me I would much appreciate it Thanks, Pat


From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug  5 13:49:07 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:49:07 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <nGfb7.73145$EP6.17247175@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67 at 4ax.com...

> >On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:32:56 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
> >>No matter who decided what it seems clear that the decision to go
to /
> >>as float had already been taken long before the flamefest took
place.

As I summarized in article 'deja/vu', a thread in Nov. 1998 worked out
the essence of PEP0238: replace mixed / with frac / and floor //.
Included in that thread were the problems with mixed /, div(i,j), and
code breakage.

>On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:49:19 GMT, wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net
>(William Tanksley) wrote:
>>Nope; it makes it *other* than democratic.  The way you go on one
would
>>think that was a bad thing; actually, it's not.

> If there was an undeniably good reason for the change, I would agree
> with this. As it stands, there are equally good - if not better -
> reasons for keeping division as it is.

There *are* good reasons for the change.  (Undeniable?  Any reason, no
matter how good, can be denied by one who wishes to deny, so this
standard is too tough.)  That there are also good reasons for the
status quo does not negate this.

Summary of much of argument:

StatusQuo Viewpoint: Integers are algebraically distinct from
rationals/reals and all operations thereon should produce an integer.
/ is a convenient abbreviation for divmod[0].  (Counterpoint: // is
almost as convenient.)

Change Viewpoint: Ints are embedded subset of floats, included
separately for efficiency reasons.  Numerical expressions should give
numerically equivalent answers when fed numerically equivalent inputs.
(Do you really disagree that this is desirable?).  They do not now
when / is used (and thus current / is design mistake).  They will in
the future when either / or // is used.

StatusQuo Pragmatic: Change will break code.  (Counter: which is why a
long transition is planned.)

Change Pragmatic: Ambiguity of / (what is eight/three?) leads to
errors, *especially* in a language like Python with polymorphic
untyped names.   Change will enable other changes in numerics system.
(Counter: they might not be so hot either.)


> He [Guido] is a new-born division-must-be-done-this-way-ist.

How did you ever get *that* idea.  He mentioned wanting a change about
four years ago and described the exact proposed replacement nearly
three years ago.  (Again, see 'deja/vu').


Terry J. Reedy





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 10:45:49 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:45:49 -0500
Subject: www.python.org is down
In-Reply-To: <Ev2ISCA7cve7EwXm@gol.com>
References: <mailman.996845706.16206.python-list@python.org>
        <cpae1hxeiz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <Ev2ISCA7cve7EwXm@gol.com>
Message-ID: <15227.56477.713451.67598@beluga.mojam.com>

    Guido> Anyway, the new site is up now, thanks to Thomas Wouters and his
    Guido> employer, the Dutch ISP XS4ALL.  Enjoy!  There are some missing
    Guido> items, we're getting these from other mirrors as soon as we can.

    Ian> That's excellent news.  But I hope, and this is easy to say with
    Ian> hindsight, someone will consider improving the resiliency:
    Ian> mirroring drives and controllers, even clustering.

I don't believe that will be an issue at XS4ALL.  They are one of the
biggest ISPs in Europe (if not the biggest).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Aug 15 07:44:49 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 13:44:49 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <j4d75xv972.fsf@porthos.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> writes:

> Thanks.  Can you tell me if that's documented anywhere?  
> 
>   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesnumeric.html
> 
> describes the conjugate() operation but not the real or imag members.
> I'd like to report that as a deficiency in the documentation.

It doesn't?

# Complex numbers have a real and imaginary part, which are both
# implemented using double in C. To extract these parts froma complex
# number z, use z.real and z.imag.

sounds as precise to me as it can get. In any case, to report
documentation bugs, just use the bug tracker at
sf.net/projects/python.

Regards,
Martin


From andym at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 24 18:04:06 2001
From: andym at ActiveState.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:04:06 -0700
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <20010824122940.I930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242042450.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru> <20010824161346.J930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <003801c12ce9$0fb66ba0$ae03a8c0@activestate.com>

> BTW: on a totally side thing: can Zope do virtual hosting?

Yes, quite happily using VirtualHostMonster and such. Zopesite.com and
Nipltd offer free Zope virtual hosting.

Cheers.
--
  Andy McKay.




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 04:28:16 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:28:16 +0100
Subject: win32 screen captures
Message-ID: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I saw earlier that someone had a sendkeys in python using wsh scripting
(via win32com). I would like to do screen capture, but there seems to be
an explicit ban on {PRTSC}.

Has anyone managed to use PIL and win32com to do screen captures?


Also the sendkeys command and control is un-robust. Is there a native
win32com way to do this and perhaps wait on the windows/events I
initiate before doing the capture?


import win32api
import win32com.client

def sendkeys(k,app,delay=100):
        '''
        Note You can't use SendKeys to send keystrokes to an application that is not designed to run in Microsoft Windows.
        Sendkeys also can't send the PRINT SCREEN key {PRTSC} to any application. 
        '''
        win32api.Sleep(delay)
        return app.SendKeys(k)

if __name__=='__main__':
        import sys
        shell = win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
        shell.Run("Acrobat")
        sk = lambda k, app=shell,delay=100: sendkeys(k,app,delay=delay)
        win32api.Sleep(500)
        shell.AppActivate("Adobe Acrobat")
        win32api.Sleep(500)

        sk('%fo',delay=500)
        sk(sys.argv[1]+'{ENTER}',delay=500)
        sk('%{PRTSC}',delay=1000)

-- 
Robin Becker


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Aug  1 06:47:39 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 05:47:39 -0500
Subject: Frank Willison
References: <mailman.996583393.15643.python-list@python.org> <20010731.224809.653468858.12797@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <BBACC0A79F0CA875.F0C7276DF2AF624A.25BE755DE54C4646@lp.airnews.net>

In article <20010731.224809.653468858.12797 at d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>,
Mark Nenadov <mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Wow. That is sad. I think O'Reilly has lost a very great man. I don't
>know too much about him, but I always enjoyed reading his articles on
>www.oreilly.com.
			.
			.
			.
See <URL: http://www.oreilly.com/news/frank_0701.html >
for more by and about him.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 09:27:39 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:27:39 -0400
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081717050.18926-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <053801c1200d$e5b9b060$0300000a@holdenweb.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru>
To: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet


> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:
> > Sam Rushing's Medusa distribution does contain some information on
it, but
> > the real documentation is the comments in the code. Reading that
should
> > enable you to connect to a working Medusa server (and hence,
presumaby, to a
> > working Zope).
>
>    Do I understand it right that we are talking about Medusa monitor
and
> monitor client?
>

Well, that's what *I* was talking about. I can't answer for you ... ;-)

Anywaqy, I guess this has drifted somewhat away from the original
enquiry. But I remember thinking it was really neat to be able to attach
to a running server, change its ports, and debug it remotely after
starting a new production version. Sam Rushing is a smart cookie.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug  8 14:21:32 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:21:32 GMT
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
References: <mailman.997214232.31302.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b704e54.256180818@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:56:13 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> wrote:

:[Mats Wichmann]
:> Can someone give me advice on how to have several versions of Python
:> coexist nicely on a Windows box?  Or to be mnore precise, how can I
:> install a new experimental version of Python without messing up my
:> existing working setup?
:>
:> I haven't felt motivated to do this on a Windows box previously and
:> it's really no problem on UNIX and cousins which is where I've done
:> this kind of stuff before.
:
:The most obvious way is for you to-- just like you do on Unix --stay away
:from doing anything on Windows that *relies* on registry settings.  The core
:PythonLabs Windows distribution makes no use of the registry for normal
:operation, so if you're doing something that does need registry info, that's
:not our fault <wink>.

Yeah, yeah.


:The Python 2.2a2 Windows distribution should work better for you in several
:respects:
:
:+ It has an "Advanced Options" dialog, allowing not to register file
:  extensions at all, and not to create any Start Menu shortcuts.
:
:+ Also a "non-admin install" option
...
:
:+ Also a new option to create copies of everything replaced 
...

Sounds neat.  You get all this "for free" with the new installer
program?

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug 26 20:44:51 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:44:51 +1000
Subject: problem with pythonwin32
In-Reply-To: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
References: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <01082710445100.01423@ike>

On Monday 27 August 2001 10:20, Paul Greer wrote:
> Might sound like a silly question but how do I get a script to run as a
> program from an Icon on windows. When ever I do the DOS box opens and
> immediately closes.
>
> the same in linux I change the py file with chmod -x  and set the path but
> i cant seem to get the program to run by just typing the name?
>
> Id appreciate the help

Use the extension ".pyw" - it uses the pythonw executable (from memory) which 
doesn't open the console.


    Richard



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 28 04:55:10 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:55:10 +0200
Subject: Extreme newbie.. looking for a push in the right direction. Need to find text in a file and then display
References: <48dbc3f6.0108272358.19747602@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mfm9f065b@enews1.newsguy.com>

"toflat" <toflatpy2 at oaktown.org> wrote in message
news:48dbc3f6.0108272358.19747602 at posting.google.com...
> Hey There,
>
> I still pretty new to this and hope this question isn't too lame. I've

Absolutely not!  Please don't worry -- beginners are welcome here.

My compliments for the very accurate problem description.  Few
problems are specified so well -- really!  I'm not repeating it
here, interested people can refer to your post.

> understand how to use
> the re module to find what I'm looking for. However I'm at a loss when

Don't use regular expressions when you can avoid them, they're
complicated -- use just strings if they can do what you need
(and, here, they can).

> it come to
> actually using what it finds. I don't know how I can get it to save
> the line that contains
> the search result. And I do not know how to get it to keep adding
> lines (and modifying) until it comes to the end marker.

You can build a list of the results, although this is not
needed if all you want is display the results on standard
output (you can just write them out as you find them).

Here is an example that returns a list, written as a function
that takes the tagname to look for and the already-opened
file in which to look.  I'm using Python 2.1, there may be
slight differences needed if you use older Python versions.

def lookfor(infile, atagname):
    tomatch = "<%s>\n" % atagname
    endmatch = "</end %s>\n" $ atagname
    result = []
    file_lines = infine.readlines()
    line_number = 0
    for line_number in range(len(file_lines)):
        if file_lines[line_number] == tomatch:
            break
    else:    # if no break, then not found
        return result    # so, empty result list
    # now, line_number is the number of the
    # line with the opening "<name>\n".  As
    # per your specs, the results start with
    # the following line then a blank one:
    result.append(file_lines[line_number+1])
    result.append('')
    # and now, loop until the end tag matches:
    for line in file_lines[line_number+2:]:
        if line == endmatch:
            return result    # we're done
        result.append(line)
    else:   # no end-tag was found, what then?
        return result    # means 'all to end'?

As you see there are a few doubts left (even
in the very best specs, as usual:-), namely
what to do on error/anomalies -- what if the
open tag is never found, or if it is but the
close tag isn't.  I've solved them as came
most naturally here (empty result list for
no-open-tag found, everything to the end if
the close-tag is not found), but you should
of course review this for your specific case.

An example of use of this function might be:

thefile = open('myfile.txt')
lines = lookfor(thefile, 'name')
if not lines:
    print "<name> not found in myfile.txt"
else:
    for line in lines:
        print line


Alex





From koen at behindthesofa.dhs.org  Sun Aug 26 08:12:52 2001
From: koen at behindthesofa.dhs.org (Koen Bossers)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 05:12:52 -0700
Subject: How big is that canvas in the window?
References: <9m6fks$2blu$1@newshost.nmt.edu> <3B86C522.169F2868@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5537fd92.0108260412.21e458d0@posting.google.com>

Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3B86C522.169F2868 at earthlink.net>...
> Bob Greschke wrote:
> > 
> > Here's the idea:
> > 
> > www.passcal.nmt.edu/~bob/unlinked/images/trdpy.jpg
> > 
> > It's in Python/Tkinter.  See the "Plot" button?  I want to draw a
> > graph in the black area.  How do I find out the dimensions of the
> > black canvas area???  I can make a guess when I first draw everything
> > by setting the size of everything, but I don't want to do that.  I
> > want the user to be able to resize the window and then redraw the
> > graph.  I got to exactly this same point in GTK+ and had to give up.
> > Am I going to have to write this program in Java?? :-)
> > 
> > (The program is actually being written for/on a UNIX box.  I just had
> > to use a Windows machine to get the screen dump.)
> > 
> > Thanks!
> >

interactive session:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> root = Tk()
>>> canv = Canvas(root)
>>> canv.pack()
>>> canv.cget('height')
'267'
>>> canv.cget('width')
'381'


found at:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm.
Section "Basic Widget Methods"

Please bookmark this site: a lifesaver when programming with Tkinter.


Cheers, Koen


From garth_grimm at hp.com  Wed Aug 15 14:04:13 2001
From: garth_grimm at hp.com (Garth Grimm)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:04:13 -0700
Subject: Cookies in request object
References: <9lcg00$6se$1@web1.cup.hp.com> <3B79B05D.664515AA@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <9ledit$12q$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

Thanks Joshua, doing

h.putheader('Cookie', 'chips=ahoy; vienna=finger')

worked just fine.  I guess I got so locked in to a thought process like
'make a Cookie object, attach it to the request object, etc., etc.'  that I
missed the relatively obvious thought process of 'send this string to the
server, send this other string to the server, etc., etc.,'

--
Garth


"Joshua Macy" <l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:3B79B05D.664515AA at sneakemail.com...
> Garth Grimm wrote:
> >
> > I feel that I should have been able to figure this out on my own, or by
> > using the python docs, but I haven't been able to.
> >
> > How do I attach a Cookie object to an HTTP request object?
>
>   I think what you're looking for is:
>
>   httplib.setheader("Cookie:", "name=value; path; domain")
>
>
>   It's documented in the HTTP object docs, although the doc on setheader
> doesn't specifically mention cookies (but RFC2109 lays out cookie
> headers in all their gory detail, e.g. at
> http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc2109.html ).  Actually,
> looking at the docs I can't tell whether you need the colon after Cookie
> or if setheader will put it in itself; you'll have to experiment a bit
> with it.  And of course name, value, and the optional path and domain
> should have your values...
>
>   Joshua




From roar1 at johansen.as  Thu Aug  2 10:04:07 2001
From: roar1 at johansen.as (Roar Johansen)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:04:07 +0200
Subject: Zope
Message-ID: <08da7.3095$e%4.90891@news3.oke.nextra.no>

Hi!

I've resently begun to learn Zope (and therefore Phyton). My question: Is
there any newsgroup aimed at Zope?

Roar Johansen




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 15:00:34 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:00:34 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lp2fp0u6e@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Bernd Nawothnig" <Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig at Asterix.t-online.de...
    ...
> >> Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient
>
> They are not omniscient but they should have visions. And accepting these
> visions and live and work with them (of course after choosing a suitable
> design first) seems to me being far more better than using brute force and
> quick hacks which only means: Only my point of view is right, nothing else
> and my first choice would be programming against any idea which is not
mine.

It seems you've never found yourself in a situation where you *have* to
use a given framework (e.g., MFC) because of corporate policy.

When using such a framework, you may find yourself unable to satisfy
some specs of the system because the framework authors did not provide
the needed 'hooks' in their design.  For example, some objects may be
generated inside the framework by directly instantiating a class of the
framework itself, rather than by a flexible factory-pattern that lets you
plug-in your own class for such objects.

If the language in use has allowed (indeed, encouraged) the framework
designers to cast in stone their defective design, your choices are:
    -- fork the framework (assuming you can get or reverse-engineer
        the sources) -- and commit to spending the next N years of your
        life retrofitting new framework releases to your fork, porting the
        forked framework to all architectures you must support, etc;
    -- resign from your job.

If the language just doesn't allow the framework designers to bind your
hands so tightly, you still have both of these choices if they appeal to
you.  You also have others, which *don't* mean "only my point of
view is right" -- they DO mean "I know this darned specific concrete
class they're instantiating cannot do the job I *HAVE* to do, so I'll
have them instantiate another instead" -- just as with a fork, but
without anywhere like as many hassles.

If you've always had free rein in choosing the frameworks you are to
work with, you're in a very unusual situation in this industry.  And
the omniscience problem is then just shifted from the frameworks'
designers to you -- once you have coded tens of thousands of lines
to that framework, which instantiates that particular concrete class
in such-and-such situation, what do you do when you THEN find out
that in release N+1 of your program you absoutely need _another_
class for those generated objects?  You basically have the above
choices plus (in theory) that of throwing everything you have away
and recoding it all from scratch (supposing you can find a different
framework that will meet your every need forever and ever... yeah,
right, not too bad, although I think that, as fables go, Rapunzel is
far more realistic -- she COULD have unusually strong hair...).


Alex





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 14:31:28 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 18:31:28 GMT
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com> <9l298d$2kt6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <iipantok6k459k7smpi8lnsv476tmujcnl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nirk0.56f.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:10:10 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> pisze:

> Python lists are tail-preallocated vectors. Therefore, adding to the
> end of a list occurs in (close to*) amortized constant time.
> 
> (*) note that while this statement isn't strictly true, it's as
> true as it needs to be. :)

It used to be not strictly true, but it's true in Python 2.1a.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug  5 12:46:33 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:46:33 -0500
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
In-Reply-To: <tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15213.30825.480171.762967@beluga.mojam.com>

    Tony> This is on an Enterprise 3500 - UltraSparc at 400MHz (ie a big box)
    ...
    Tony> Can anyone tell me why this is so, and more importantly, what I
    Tony> can do to compile up python to run faster on Solaris?

Well, you didn't really give any indication what optimization you used with
gcc.  I'd start there.  There are a number of SPARC-specific flags for gcc
as well as a number of different optimization levels you can try.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 24 03:54:39 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:54:39 GMT
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
References: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <3B8608DD.9050805@ActiveState.com>

Howard Lightstone wrote:

> OK, I made up a Python class/methods to take over stderr/stdout when
> running Pythonw applications and display them in a Tkinter window.
> Works slick.
> 
> However, this DOESN'T work when embedding Python since pythonrun.c still
> refers to stdout/stderr directly...which Windows doesn't have set to
> anything useful.
> 
> How does one reroute/catch these errors?  Unfortunately, the only thing
> I can think of  involves changing pythonrun.c to use the 'objects'
> attached to sys.stdout and sys.stderr so they COULD be rerouted.
> 
> It seems to me someone on this list commented on catching these embedded
> errors but I can't seem to find it.

Execute all of your "user" or "application" Python code inside your own 
, Python implemented exception handler.  This handler can catch all 
errors, and use the traceback module to print the exception details 
anywhere it likes.

This is the approach taken by Pythonwin and IDLE, to name just a couple 
I am familiar with...

Mark.



From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 19:55:48 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:55:48 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <200108142235.SAA21102@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 06:35:01PM -0400
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com> <20010814123207.D27040@starmedia.net> <200108141906.f7EJ6iR11000@odiug.digicool.com> <20010814180636.R27040@starmedia.net> <200108142235.SAA21102@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010814195548.T27040@starmedia.net>

On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 06:35:01PM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback, Drew!
> 
> > From: Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com>
> 
> > Now to try and figure out why (I've heard about this stuff) my __getattr__
> > function is going into recursive death.
> 
> Probably because it *always* gets called rather than only for missing
> attributes.  The tutorial gives a brief example.

Bingo!  A simple addition of:
try:
    rv = object.__getattr__(self, attr)
    return rv
except AttributeError:
    pass

Did the trick.

Thanks,
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 19 14:10:32 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:10:32 +0200
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
References: <mailman.997917625.3557.python-list@python.org> <i4hgl9.ok1.ln@127.0.0.1> <6barntgq6dnednsa03d5f9elbo0vip2mkt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2133453.fYGdeWWPft@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> schrub:

>>> How does one exec a python program with a password on the cmdline?
>>
>>Doing this is silly, stupid, a security breach, <put here
>>expelletive>, etc. Don't you see a password on a commandline can be
>>seen by other tools of the same operative system? On Unix is as easy
>>as running "ps aux". Under Windows I had once used similar tools to
>>watch processes and their system information.
> 
> Right.  That is EXACTLY why he wants to alter argv.

But there's always a moment where another user can gather the unaltered 
argv.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 15:23:17 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 12:23:17 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7xae0v6ehm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig) writes:
> Access restriction should never be used to arbitrarily prevent a user from
> performing a task. The only idea behind restriction is to hide internal
> details for having more stable code. 

That ignores a whole class of applications which run potentially
malicious code, such as mobile code.  If Visual Basic had good access
restriction features, we might not see nearly so many computer viruses
spreading through MS Outlook and Word documents.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Aug 16 18:55:05 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 17:55:05 -0500
Subject: why does this hang
Message-ID: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

I have a class member function that returns a member of that class,
namely a date class that returns 'tomorrow'

from Trade import MyDate

d = MyDate()
#mdy is month/day/year as a string
print 'today is %s' % d.get_mdy()  
print 'tomorrow is %s' % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy())


If I don't put the parens around 'd.get_tomorrow().get_mdy()' the code
hangs (totally frozen, no response to Ctrl-C on a linux box)

Does the % operator bind more tightly than the '.' operator?  Is this
expected?

Thanks,
John Hunter


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Aug 23 19:44:56 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:44:56 -0500
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <9lig4u0r55@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <E3E794EC1263A8A6.3B3EDECCF8B46371.ACD2BAF6F23AF5E0@lp.airnews.net>

In article <9lig4u0r55 at enews3.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
		[much else true]
			.
			.
>Unit tests that are not automated have modest value.  Fortunately,
>the *units* (components) CAN be tested with test harnesses that
>don't actually draw to the screen nor wait for joystick input (etc)
>but rather simulate those activities to check the logic of the various
>components, producing textual output that can be checked by the
>usual means.  The *acceptance* test (the customer's stories) may
>be a different issue -- we've had some modest success with a
>"capture and playback" approach, but that requires a "mock system"
>be running to do your "capturing" in the first place, and there are
>lots of uncertainties on how to keep the C&P test suites useful when
>the GUI's layout and logic change.
			.
			.
			.
I'll selectively reinforce Alex's many points:
C&P can be *quite* modest in its return, it has
LOTS of uncertainties with even the slightest
change in font/display resolution/host/graphics
drivers/layout/..., and yet, GUI systems *can*
be designed for testability
<URL: http://www.itworld.com/AppDev/1243/UIR010323testinggui2/ >
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Tue Aug  7 13:17:33 2001
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 18:17:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n08ld.vkj.andrew-usenet@chiark.greenend.org.uk>

In article <3b6ff692.1462602 at nntp.sprynet.com>, David C. Ullrich wrote:
>Well there's an obvious "just do it" recursive version. 

Which is much nicer than the following non-recursive one, which makes
hideously many assumptions about the nature of everything
(specifically, any more than one depth of nesting in the input and it
utterly breaks):

from __future__ import nested_scopes

input = [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7,8,9],[10],[11,12]]

def permute(list):
    totlists = 1
    for x in xrange(len(list)): totlists *= len(list[x])
    result = [ [] for x in xrange(0, totlists) ]
    for x in xrange(0, len(list)):
        for y in xrange(0, len(list[x])):
            for z in filter(lambda a: divmod(a+y, len(list[x]))[1]==0, 
                            xrange(0, totlists)):
                result[z].append(list[x][y])
        result.sort()
    return result

if __name__ == "__main__":
    for line in permute(input):
        print repr(line)


I apologise for how vile this is. :)

This does actually work, but I'd be amazed if the sort didn't do nasty
things to performance; however, if recursion really bothers you, it's
yet another answer.

-- 
#!/usr/bin/env python
#97.110.100.114.101.119.64.108.101.120.105.99.97.108.46.111.114.103.46.117.107
import sys; print("".join([chr(int(r)) for r in open(sys.argv[0],"r").
readlines()[1][1:].split('.')])) #needs python 2; adw27 at cam.ac.uk(academic) 


From inigoserna at terra.es  Sat Aug  4 18:32:21 2001
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 00:32:21 +0200
Subject: Trouble with curses module in terminalemulator
In-Reply-To: <dd144f8b.0108010625.1a2161fd@posting.google.com>
References: <dd144f8b.0108010625.1a2161fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <996964341.7412.9.camel@lethe.infernus.org>

Hello Teo,

basically, the problem comes from terminal configuration.
'curses.KEY_ENTER' key code is not the same that is generated on your
terminal when you hit enter key.
Check python-list archives for a mail from Rainy titled 'curses woes' on
date July 10 2001 10:11 for a more detailed explanation.

I hope this helps you,

I?igo Serna

El d?a 01 Aug 2001 07:25:45 -0700, teo escribi?
> Hi all! 
> 
> When i try to catch curses.KEY_ENTER, for example, getch() returns
> something completley diffrent :)
> well, i'll give you my code and explains below.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> import curses
> 
> curses.initscr()
> win = curses.newwin(0,0,0,0)
> win.keypad(1)
> win.refresh()
> 
> while 1:
>   ch = win.getch()
>   if ch == curses.KEY_ENTER:
>     win.addstr(10,10,"Enter pressed")
>     win.refresh()
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> The strange thing is, that other constants work, for example
> curses.KEY_RESIZE, but no "keyboard-keys"(enter, tab, backspace)
> 
> When i run my application in pure textmode (no X server), it works,
> but when i run my app in a terminalemulator, the mapping of the keys
> failes.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Teodor
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 30 16:52:49 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:52:49 GMT
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com> <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a@posting.google.com> <uofoygzlu.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3b8ea450.14522632@wa.news.verio.net>

On 29 Aug 2001 20:28:45 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:

>TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com (Terry Byrne) writes:
>
>> I wanted to avoid the complications of varying drive mappings etc.
>> when building the command lines for the batch file, so the CGI assumes
>> the server's local drive structure for paths to exes and input files.
>> Because of this assumption, I know, the batch file must run locally. I
>> know a truly elegant solution would get the user's drive mapping (if
>> exists) to create the proper commands, or maybe it would change drive
>> mappings on-the-fly to a standard or something, assuming rights could
>> be obtained to do so from the net admin group etc., but that seems too
>> elaborate :-)... or maybe that would be easier than I suspect. If so,
>> please advise.
>
>BTW, as another approach you don't have to have drive mappings if you
>want to permit the user to run the script locally but referenced from
>the server's drive.  Just use UNC names for everything, and as long as
>the user has the appropriate access to the server it should work fine.
>
>That is, if your server is called, say SERVER, and the script is
>written by the web page onto a share SCRIPTS on the server, then a
>client could execute that script by just running
>\\server\scripts\<scriptname>.  And inside your script you could just
>use \\server\<share>\... references rather than drive letters.
>
But isn't this substituting for pcAnywhere rather than allowing the CGI
to execute the script, unless either the server is 'impersonating' the
user who has access, or IUSR_<server name> (the server services' own
user login account for anonymous access -- which you should not give
additional privileges to unless you have a *very* protected environment
with no external access) has rights to the share (which would mean it was
effectively a pretty public share).

Or did I miss some discussion?




From scott_hathaway at riskvision.com  Tue Aug 21 15:48:51 2001
From: scott_hathaway at riskvision.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:48:51 -0500
Subject: cannot zip file with zipfile
Message-ID: <3b82bada.0@216.0.152.7>

I cannot seem to create a valid zip file (one that WinZip can open).  Here
is my code:

from zipfile import ZipFile
a = ZipFile("c:\\test.zip","w",8)
print a.write("c:\\test.txt")

Can someone please tell me what am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Scott




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Aug 17 01:56:43 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Dr. David Mertz)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:56:43 -0400
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs (fwd)
Message-ID: <bILf7kKkXgHM092yn@bellatlantic.net>                         

I took a bit of a look at most of the Python IDE's mentioned in:

  http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_17.html

A followup/companion looked at PythonWorks Pro:

  http://www.webreview.com/2001/07_20/developers/index02.shtml

I need to get the latter to my own site soon (and a couple other
things).

HTH.  David...



From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Mon Aug 13 14:19:54 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:19:54 -0700
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
Message-ID: <kb6gnt49hb0n6il52hb9r4ab59dkpbtgpn@4ax.com>

I notice the author of the Dive Into Python tutorial cautions
that __init__ is not trully a class constructor, as by the time
it's invoked, an instance already exists (hence the argument
'self', hence the fact that classes don't need an __init__
method).

I'm wondering if it's therefore considered faux pax to refer to
the constructor of a Python user-defined class, meaning __init__,
or if there's some tacit liberalizing of "constructor" (it's meaning)
going on, such that this usage is acceptable.

Any feedback useful.  CC: urner at alumni.princeton.edu please.

Kirby

PS:  I should check the official Python docs to see if "constructor"
terminology is used.  I'll do that next.



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 18:44:43 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:44:43 -0400
Subject: newbie string.replace question
References: <mailman.997305073.15200.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Cfjc7.132$jo2.10470@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

<fett at tradersdata.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997305073.15200.python-list at python.org...
> Could someone please tell me why the following segment of code wont
> work:
>
> unformat = quote[11]
> string.replace(unformat, '<B>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '</DL>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '</B>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<DL COMPACT>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<DT>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<DD>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<OL>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '</OL>', '')
>
> when i print the html stuff i was replacing is still there.
>
It doesn't work because you are throwing away the results of the
replacements instead of re-binding unformat to them. What you actually want
is probably:

unformat = quote[11]
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '<B>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '</DL>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '</B>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '<DL COMPACT>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '<DT>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '<DD>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '<OL>', '')
unformat = string.replace(unformat, '</OL>', '')

Although you might also consider:

unformat = quote[11]
for r in ('<B>', '</DL>', ... ,'</OL>):
    unformat = unformat.replace(r, "")

This uses string methods (which are equivalent to the string functions, but
provide the subject string as an implicit first argument).

data-driven-is-more-flexible-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 02:06:40 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:06:40 -0700
Subject: Plethora of strange cracker newbie questions
References: <3B85E791.E18BA991@engcorp.com> <h8p4m9.uas.ln@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <7xpu9mat5b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> writes:
> The irc one I can think of some good uses for. I had a program at one time 
> that would watch stuff on an irc server then alert me to things of interest.
> pinging can be very useful since you can write a script to make sure your 
> various computers are up. If one goes down you can spawn off a task to 
> notify you. However the others are far less useful. 

I followed the irc discussion with some interest.  I like the idea of
a full featured GUI-fied irc client written in Python.  It's a fairly
natural Python application.  


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 22:46:48 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:46:48 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <712af333.0108131537.117f847@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cpsneve4wa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

jasbahr at onebox.com (Jason Asbahr) writes:

> I agree with the general opinion here that having virtual
> as default feels like the more 'Pythonic' solution.  

There must be a misunderstanding.  Alex used C++ virtual functions as
an example where C++ went wrong, as an argument for why dynamicism
should be the default.  In Python, all functions are virtual: you can
always override them in a subclass, and I am not going to change this!

All I want is to disable changes to *existing* classes by default.
You can write your own metaclass that changes the default, or you can
inherit from a dynamic base class -- thus, with very little effort,
you can make all your classes dynamic, if you want to.

If it turns out that this is not sufficient for a wide range of
applications, I'll reconsider the default; but I'd rather not, because
there is a severe run-time penalty for the generally unneeded
dynamicism.

> Also class assignment is a very useful feature.

You will be able to write a metaclass (in C) that allows __class__
assignment, when safe.  If there's enough demand this metaclass will
be built-in.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 02:12:57 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:12:57 -0400
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
In-Reply-To: <slrn9osmeo.g1.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMECCLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Michael Teo]
> I get an "OverflowError: long int too long to convert" when I tried to
> print "%d" % l where l is a long Python value.

That was true in older versions of Python, but not anymore.

> I have tried using str(l) but that gives a trailing 'L'.

Also true, but in versions even older than that <wink>.

> Any good suggestion on how to solve this problem will be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks.

Works without effort in 2.1.1 (the latest stable release).  If you want
something that works under all Python releases (to date ...), print

    repr(l)[:-1]  # chops off trailing 'L'




From yahna at vni.com  Wed Aug 29 14:02:31 2001
From: yahna at vni.com (Matt Yahna)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:02:31 -0600
Subject: Problems installing on Solaris2.6
Message-ID: <3b8d2ef9$1@news.vni.com>

When installing on Solaris 2.6, I get the following message that seems to
repeat endlessly:

Listing /opt/python/lib/python2.1/ ...

This is from "make install" after successfully running
"configure --prefix=/opt/python" and "make".

I have tried with version 1.6 as well and have the same problem.

Any help would be appreciated.

- Matt




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 10:12:43 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:12:43 +0200
Subject: know if someone ping me
References: <mailman.998546434.927.python-list@python.org> <jtb2m9.v13.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <9m331o028f0@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:jtb2m9.v13.ln at gargamel.hqd-internal...
    ...
> the syslog. With a Python script, you could continuously read from the log
file
> and do whatever pleases you if you find an ICMP request.

You can do much better than this!  With newer syslogd's, at
least on Linux, you can log to a named pipe, so your Python
program can just 'loop' reading from that named pipe and be
woken up for processing when there's something to process --
a MUCH better idea than 'polling' (continuosly read from
a file) in terms of system-load for infrequent events.


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug 27 11:05:31 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:05:31 -0400
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B890102.1A772D0E@stroeder.com> <7xzo8l7kco.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Citi7.44883$54.2491100@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xzo8l7kco.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:
> > > The downside of CRL checking is it means every single one of your
> > > secure site visits gets reported to the CA.
> >
> > Nonsens. Learn that CRL means Certificate Revocation List before
> > spreading fud.
>
> Browser CRL checking (at least in MSIE 5.x) works by checking incoming
> certificates against a CRL at the CA, from what I understand.

That may well be the case, but to check the CRL a browser is under no
obligation to report the URL for which the check is being performed. So you
can't track people by access to the CRL like DoubleClick do with access to
ad graphics (and even that only works when the client sends the "Referer:"
HTTP header).

Which is what I suspect Micheal meant.

regards
 Steve

--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Thu Aug  9 13:11:40 2001
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 17:11:40 GMT
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> 	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> 	<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org> 	<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>

pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Fran?ois Pinard) wrote:

> There is one case, however, where using parentheses with tuples is worth
> doing, and this is for long lists of tuple elements spanning more than one
> line.  Parentheses combined with proper indenting help the eye at catching
> the overall structure.  For short tuples that fit on a line, parentheses are
> overkill to me.

There are a couple of other occasions where you *should* use
parentheses, or you won't get what you want:

* When the tuple is an argument to a function call.
  foo(1,2,3) and foo((1,2,3)) are very different things.
* When the tuple is an element in a list or another tuple.
  [1,2,3,4,5,6] and [1,(2,3),(4,5),6] are very different.
* When the tuple is a key or a value in a dictionary:
  { (1,2):"one and two", "three and four":(3,4) } works, while
  { 1,2:"one and two", "three and four":3,4 } doesn't.


>     for x in 1, 2, 3:
>         pass

I would always write this as

    for x in [ 1, 2, 3 ]:
	pass

Hmm, actually, on closer consideration, I think I would write
it as

    x = 3

:-)


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"God is real, but Jesus is an integer."      !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
                                             !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Tue Aug 28 04:47:47 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:47:47 +0200
Subject: Extreme newbie.. looking for a push in the right direction. Need to find text in a file and then display
Message-ID: <3B8C5725@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From toflatpy2 at oaktown.org (toflat) =====
>Hey There,
>
>I still pretty new to this and hope this question isn't too lame. I've
>been digging around ( and learning) the documentation but just can
>figure out how to do this.
>
>I have a file with a repeating predictable format.
>
>ie:
>
><name>
>fname lname
>1
>name
>address
>whatever
>yada..
></end name> 12345
>
>So.. the record format is always:
>Line 1. opening <name> tag
>Line 2. record title (most often a first and last name) the opening
><name> tag, Line 3. a number (this number has no significance)
>Lines 4-?. the record information.
>Last Line. </end name> 12345
>
>I would like to write a script to search the file for a name and then
>display the record.
>
>So it would...
>A> search for the name (record title).
>B> upon finding a match, the line containing the match is saved
>(record title)
>B> replace this number with a blank line in results
>C> each following line is saved (added to record) up to but not
>including...
>D> the end marker (</end name> 12345)
>
>The script then displays the result to the terminal
>
>ex:
>
>searching the file for a record with "o'maley" in the title.
>source file:
>
><name>
>Frank O'Maley
>1
>Frank O'Maley
>1234 VeryDark Alley
>Dublin, Ireland
>011 123 45 45 9
>yada yada
></end name> 12345
>
>Would return:
>
>Frank O'Maley
>
>Frank O'Maley
>1234 VeryDark Alley
>Dublin, Ireland
>011 123 45 45 9
>yada yada
>
>This is I've been pouring over the documentation and think I
>understand how to use
>the re module to find what I'm looking for. However I'm at a loss when
>it come to
>actually using what it finds. I don't know how I can get it to save
>the line that contains
>the search result. And I do not know how to get it to keep adding
>lines (and modifying) until
>it comes to the end marker.

You probably won't need the re module. First you need to find <name> tags; 
this can be done by looping over the list of lines and ignoring everything but 
the tag. Upon finding one, you read the next line (which contains the first 
and last name) and check it for the name you're looking for.

A very crude example to get you going:

f = open("file", "rb")
lines = f.readlines()
f.close()

for i in range(len(lines)):
    line = lines[i]
    if line.strip() == "<name>":
        # Aha, found one
        nextline = lines[i+1]
        if match(line, NAME):
            # this record starts at line i, which can be saved
            # print the rest of the lines

You will have to write the match function yourself, because I don't know 
exactly on what criteria you are searching and matching. Here's a simple 
example:

>>> import string
>>> def match(line, name):
	idx = string.find(line.lower(), name.lower())
	return (idx >= 0)

>>> match("Fred O'Hara", "o'hara")
1
>>> match("John McDouglas", "dougie")
0

(Yes, I like to mix the string module and string methods, aside... ;-)

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From new_name at mit.edu  Tue Aug 14 17:05:07 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 17:05:07 -0400
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <etd3d6uz724.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

There isn't one AFAIK, at least not along the lines you're probably
thinking of.  The closest is

while 1:
    line = fh.readline()
    if line == '': break

HTH.
Alex.


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 17 11:27:08 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:27:08 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tnqe0e4ob2d1ae@corp.supernews.com>

"Alan Green" <web.mail at lycos.com> wrote in message
news:270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac at posting.google.com...
> I've been looking at Python IDEs over the last week, and this is what
> I've found. On the theory that other people might be interested, here
> are the results...
>
> 1. IDLE - comes with the standard Python distribution. USD0.00
>
> 2. IDLEfork <http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/> "just like IDLE, only
> crunchy". An experimental fork of IDLE. USD0.00
>
> 3. PythonWin - comes with ActiveState Python. Based on IDLE. Has a
> couple of nice, extra features, but basically the same animal. USD0.00
>
Statement Completion in PythonWin is rather nice.

As someone else mentioned:  you left out Wing IDE.
I use PythonWin and Wing IDE.  Both have room for improvements.
Suppose you open a .py file or create a new .py file.  Make changes to it
and run it.  Both IDE's force you to save the file before running/debugging.
This should not be the case.
With Wing IDE:  Too many interfaces - instead of one window.  Remind me of
Delphi 1, and the way Microsoft Word is heading - one interface for each and
every document - back to medieval PC ages :)
Also, with Wing IDE, monitroing the results of a run is nothing to write
home about - it opens the console python interpretive shell instead of
piping results into a neat looking window.
Maan





From matt at sake.mondoinfo.com  Tue Aug 21 22:55:45 2001
From: matt at sake.mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:55:45 GMT
Subject: Trouble with Tk buttons
References: <mailman.998414732.16193.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RaFg7.9108$x84.2805061@ruti.visi.com>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:24:24 -0700 (PDT), David AraSmith
<mycerius at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have a small program that I am writing to help me
>learn Tk. Basicly, I have a frame (inside another
>frame)with grid layout that has 2 buttons on the first
>row. When you click on one button, another row of
>buttons appear (in row 2). The same thing happens when
>you click the second button but they replace the first
>second row and vice versa. My problem is that when the
>second button is pressed and the "new" second row is
>displayed, the original second row still shows if the
>text is longer.
>Here is the code:

[. . .]

Dave,

I think that your problem is that when you create the new buttons, you
don't get rid of the old ones first. You'll want to send the old ones
a grid_forget() before you add the new ones. In order to send the
grid_forget(), you'll need to keep a reference to them around
somewhere in your object.

>I have also tried just create 2 button and to use a
>function inside the MenuButton class to just change
>the text of each button rather then swapping the set
>of buttons but am not having any luck there either.

Giving a button new text is just a matter of using the configure
method with the same argument you'd use when creating the object:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> r=Tk()
>>> b=Button(r,text="foo")
>>> b.pack()
>>> b.configure(text="bar")

Regards,
Matt


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 09:10:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:10:04 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9ldse60263v@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xofphd4ql.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> xrange apparently doesn't malloc the values until they're used, but
> they eventually get malloc'd.

One at a time, sure, just like in the loop you outline below.

> I think functional programming has run
> slightly amuck here.  What's wanted is something equivalent to
>
>    sum = 0
>    i = 1
>    while i <= 100 :
>       sum = sum + i
>       i = i + 1

import operator
sum = reduce(operator.add, xrange(101))

IS "something equivalent" to the loop you've outlined, except for
the little detail that it's faster.

Easy to measure -- take this script:

import time

start = time.clock()
for x in range(1000):
    sum = 0
    i = 1
    while i <= 100 :
        sum = sum + i
        i = i + 1
stend = time.clock()
print stend-start

start = time.clock()
for x in range(1000):
    import operator
    sum = reduce(operator.add, xrange(101))
stend = time.clock()
print stend-start

and run it a few times on your machine -- on mine, an old K5-300
with win98 and Python 2.1:

D:\py21\ew>python oo.py
0.782174525218
0.336476474631

D:\py21\ew>python oo.py
0.750641981931
0.333293384066

D:\py21\ew>python oo.py
0.977303508272
0.426369030658

D:\py21\ew>

You can see the 'run-amuck functional code' is way over
twice faster than the plain loop.


> Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
> keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.

In most cases it's probably just your perception being skewed, in
my guess.  There _are_ a small amount of warts (print>> comes
to mind), but not in such fundamental things as loops &c, IMHO.


> Here's another one: the print statement puts a gratuituous space after
> each thing you print.  So
>
>    for i in ['a','b','c']:
>      print i,
>
> prints "a b c " instead of "abc".

Yes, print is meant to be a convenience, based on the idea that
you usually do want to white-separate output.  the write method
of file objects, e.g. sys.stdout.write(i), is handy for when you
don't, although one usually prepares a string and then prints that;
for your case, I'd say
    print ''.join(['a','b','c'])
rather than looping.


Alex





From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Fri Aug 24 16:02:17 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:02:17 GMT
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998679338.16044.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9odcm8.quj.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote:
>Dear Python-list-iners,
>	I have another Testing related question.  How are unit tests done 
>when the units to be tested get lots of information from nested 
>objects, e.g. (in a method of a class to be tested):
>if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop':
>how would this be tested?

It wouldn't -- it would be deleted and abhorred.  That's a violation of
encapsulation and of the law of Demeter (google that if you don't know
what it means).

The problem is that each object should have an interface to do everything
it needs to do.  You shouldn't have to reach inside any object to inspect
how it's doing its job.  The above code should look like 'if
self.app.anyPlayersInStoppedBattles():' (I'm assuming that's an
appropriate name).

However, your question still remains: how do you unit test objects which
are supposed to delegate operations to other objects?  The answer is that
you write the unit test without assuming any delegation.  That method you
mentioned should work whether or not delegation is happening; and your
test won't care, because it only tests the method, not the implementation.

>Jesse W

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 23:40:00 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:40:00 -0400
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
In-Reply-To: <3b870ad3.381269847@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOJLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bengt Richter]
> But an md5 check settles it even more definitely ;-).

The fellow was on Windows 95 and couldn't install Python, and didn't sound
like the type who might be running Cygwin too.  Therefore he probably has no
straightforward way to compute an md5 checksum.  If he comes back and says
the size-check matched, we can deal with that then.  But *most* times this
comes up the size-check fails, and then he's on the right path after a few
seconds.

> IMHO any file published for downloading should have the md5 digest and
> size on the download page (size more for estimating download time than
> integrity checking).

Heh.  We do, but the size is published only on the SourceForge download site
while the MD5 is only on the python.org site.  Best of all worlds <wink>.

> As you I'm sure you know, the md5 for Python-2.1.1.exe can be found at
>     http://www.python.org/2.1.1/ page:
>
> 39ef54d3e29ea402c8b693b4f3fedd4a Python-2.1.1.exe

Yes, I compute it and email it to Guido.

> (Of course that doesn't prove that a corrupted file wasn't put
> into the archive.  For belt and suspenders, I guess you could do md5's
> for individual critical files within an archive as well, if you don't
> trust the archiving/dearchiving process. Even that will just help
> identify the point of corruption, but at least we'll know where the
> culprit must be ;-)

Our Windows installer .exe can actually be opened as a data file by WinZip
(or similar tool), and it stores a CRC for every file within it; WinZip can
check them all with its "Test" function; indeed, the "installer corrupted"
message comes from the installer doing these CRC checks on itself, so when
it says "corrupted" that's almost certainly the truth (barring strange
permissions problems on NT and 2K).




From angband at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 19:19:49 2001
From: angband at blueyonder.co.uk (Bablos)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:19:49 GMT
Subject: Wake-on-LAN via Python?
Message-ID: <3B79C006.MD-1.4.15.angband@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi There...

Has anyone managed to implement Wake-on-LAN via Python?  I assume it's
possible, but I'm not sure what kind of programming would be involved,
and what kind of information would need to be sent to a machine on a
LAN in order to wake it up.

Hope someone can point me in the right direction!

Also, does anyone know how to speed up the retrbinary process?  My
posting regarding this has yet to receive a reply!


Bablos.


From taylorae at whitman.edu  Fri Aug 10 16:11:45 2001
From: taylorae at whitman.edu (Aimee Taylor)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:11:45 -0700
Subject: running a stand-alone executable from within a python program
Message-ID: <c88b4aad.0108101211.383c97d7@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to run stand-alone executables from python?  It would
be great if there was a way to do this independent of platform, but if
not, these are my needs:

Right now I have a stand-alone fortran 77 program that I want to run
from a python program on a PC.  I will also be putting all of this on
a mac someday soon (of course I will also be changing the fortran
program some and compiling it on the mac).

Future plans:  I'm not up to threading yet, but someday it would be
nice to execute the fortran program on a separate UNIX box(es,
parallel processing far in the future??) and pipe back the resulting
text file to the PC or MAC client.

Thank you for any ideas/suggestions in advance!  
--Aimee


From jlcolom at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 05:34:45 2001
From: jlcolom at hotmail.com (Josep L. Colom)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 02:34:45 -0700
Subject: "Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"
Message-ID: <ff0afd33.0108140134.1bb31315@posting.google.com>

Hello,
 
Under Windows 2000, I've written a extension module in C++ (Visual C++
6.0) and I've used the last stable SWIG version (1.3.6, from july
2001).
I'm using python 2.1.1.
 
Then, when I try to import the DLL (extension module) I get the error:
    "Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)"
 
 
After looking python mailing lists, I've seen this error when porting
extension modules 1.5 to python 1.6 or 2.0. But this was a problem
raised in august last year when python release 1.6 was introduced. So
I don't see any relation with my problem.
 
Someone can give me an advive?
Thanks a lot
 
Josep L. Colom


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Aug 15 19:30:25 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:30:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Zombies from forked thread process. Why?
In-Reply-To: <3B7A9ADD.2712EF4@psychosis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108160928180.4241-100000@central>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Dave Cinege wrote:

> I have a daemon process that watches a directory for files. When
> some appear it decides what to do with them and then spawns a
> processor to handle them. To be speedy it detaches (forks) a processor
> for each 'section'. Eveything run perfect, except that when the processor
> process returns it leaves a zombie in the process tree:
> IE
> root  29065  0.0  0.0  0  0 ?   Z  11:40 0:00 [mss_snort-updat <defunct>]
>
> This is only when invoked by my daemon and not directly by hand.

{...}

Your code doesn't have any waitpid() to retrieve the state of the child
when it terminates (at least what was shown didn't have any)

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 03:27:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:27:30 +0200
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
References: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net> <9ljtjv02om7@enews2.newsguy.com> <3B7D5033.6A16F2C3@earthlink.net> <3B7D53EF.3A301516@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9ll5cn01m31@enews2.newsguy.com>

[posted to both comp.lang.python and the anygui list,
anygui-devel at lists.sourceforge.net, with followups to
the latter -- feel free to override if you think c.l.p needs
more discussion of this, of course]

"Joseph Andrew Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B7D53EF.3A301516 at earthlink.net...
    ...
> > I can't think of a reasonably complete solution that's worth the
> > effort for one user of a GUI toolkit -- the test-harness should,
> > it seems to me, be part of the GUI toolkit itself (alter sys.path
> > so a guitest directory is prepended, and rather than the actual
> > widgets &c what you're getting is some kind of test-harness
> > version).  But I don't know of any GUI kit, commercial or free,
> > for any language[s], that offers such a precious feature:-(.  It's
> > not easy to architect, of course:-(.
>
> Possibly the Anygui project could offer a backend that,
> rather than instantiating Tkinter or wxPython controls,
> or whatever, instead instantiates objects that present a
> programmatic interface for the use of unit test code.

Yes, I think that does make sense (for a _second_ release
of anygui -- better get a first one out first:-).  Maybe two
backends -- one which wraps any other real backend but as
a side effect also writes a log of anygui-level events, and
one that replays such events (and logs gui-related program
actions in textual form, for easier checking, rather than
drawing to the screen).  That's not exactly "programmatic
control", but it would give easy "capture & playback" test
ability to any anygui program, and finer-grained program
control would then be easier to build as an add-on (e.g.
by generating the logs to be replayed).


Alex





From EvanJ at eyron.com  Tue Aug 14 05:20:50 2001
From: EvanJ at eyron.com (Evan Jones)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:20:50 +0200
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
Message-ID: <01Aug14.112452idt.115201@wall.eyron.com>

Come to think of it the __init__ method is more of a constructor than a Java
constructor because __init__ is typically responsible for adding 'instance'
members to the object, where as, by the time Java constructor code is called
all the memory and naming for instance variables has been done.

Uru
Evan




From fugate at lucent.com  Tue Aug 28 10:05:32 2001
From: fugate at lucent.com (Cris A. Fugate)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:05:32 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
In-Reply-To: <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
 <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280900080.19481-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>

In the Tcl/Tk  world we have Visual Tcl. I use it to get a quick
view of how a gui should look without writting code. Of course
it generates Tcl/Tk code which should be easy to translate into
Python. If someone is brave they could probably rewrite it in
Python?

**********************************************************************
Cris A. Fugate          Lucent Technologies, Robust Process Automation
fugate at lucent.com       http://ihgpweb.ih.lucent.com/~fugate
630 713-8255            Sponsor of the lucent.lang.tcl newsgroup


On 27 Aug 2001, Justin Doak wrote:

> I am not interested in a full-blown IDE, but rather in a GUI builder
> for Python. (Of course, if I get a good GUI builder with an IDE, then
> I'd consider using an IDE.) Specifically, the GUI builder should be
> cross-platform (i.e., the code it generates should work on Windows and
> Linux at least) and an open source tool is preferable to a commercial
> one for cost reasons. Using Tkinter seems to be the default way of
> getting cross-platform GUIs with Python, but this involves writing
> relatively low-level GUI code that I'd prefer to avoid. If anyone has
> any thoughts on this matter, I'd love to hear them.
>
> JD
>



From mrobinson3 at uswest.net  Wed Aug  8 13:17:01 2001
From: mrobinson3 at uswest.net (Mr)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:17:01 -0600
Subject: Please Help:   xml.parsers.expat question
Message-ID: <hns2ntgvslq3uouagbpqolik9q7h1oj6df@4ax.com>

How can I use xml.parsers.expat in jython on a Mac?  I tried

 import xml.parsers.expat

It won't work.

Please Help

Mr


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 31 19:17:58 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:17:58 -0600
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
References: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no> <9mnse0$knh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <9mp27s$mob$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <3B9017FC.F2758CCC@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9mp61a$mf8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
>Well, I *did* test this... I threw the above class into a module with:
>
>def test():
>    trap = KeywordTrap()
>    "Testing ... %d %s %f %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap

Technically, the subject is
  'extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates'
 :)

The '%d' syntax only works with a single object or a tuple, and
only tuples work if you have more than one positional % term.
The '%()s' syntax works different.

>So I tried getting rid of the %d %s etc, and just using the keyword
>formats...

>    "Testing ...  %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap
>ValueError: incomplete format

Should be
     "Testing ...  %(one)s %(two)d %(test)f" % trap
                        ^^^     ^^^      ^^^

>Bummer.  Maybe we'd have to inherit from UserDict?  I haven't messed
>around with that at all...

Nope.  The % operator used by a string only needs the __getitem__
when given a '%()s' syntax.

For real fun, explain why this should work:

>>> class Spam:
...   def __getitem__(self, name):
...     return len(name)
...   def __int__(self):
...     return 987
...
>>> spam = Spam()
>>> "%d %(four)s %(yummy)s" % spam
'987 4 5'
>>>

Now I'm wondering in 2.2 what happens if I derive from ()...

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From pete at ipartners.pl  Wed Aug 22 07:23:58 2001
From: pete at ipartners.pl (Pete)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:23:58 +0200
Subject: base classes
Message-ID: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>

One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute called
'a'
class a1:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.a = 1
class a2:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.a = 2
class aa( a1, a2 ):
    def __init__( self ):
        a1.__init__( self )
        a2.__init__( self )

AA = aa()
print AA.__dict__
--------------------------------------
this code prints:
{'a': 2}

but if I change self.a to self.a_ in class a1:
class a1:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.a_ = 1
class a2:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.a = 2
class aa( a1, a2 ):
    def __init__( self ):
        a1.__init__( self )
        a2.__init__( self )

AA = aa()
print AA.__dict__
------------------------------------------
I got:
{'a_': 1, 'a': 2}

The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
workaround?

Pete




From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 03:16:12 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:16:12 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net>

HOW!?!?!?!?
"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> schreef in bericht
news:slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> In article <iCxj7.60$YN5.429 at pollux.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit
wrote:
>
> > I only want to make a form. Not a stupid screen with something on it....
>
> Aren't we in a snotty mood today...
>
> > What can i do with that screen?
>
> How about putting your stupid form on it?
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I've got a COUSIN
>                                   at               who works in the
GARMENT
>                                visi.com            DISTRICT...




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 12:00:26 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:00:26 +0200
Subject: Why use Python?
References: <mailman.999090943.30650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mj3is01ma6@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Kemp Randy-W18971" <Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999090943.30650.python-list at python.org...
> But if you use VB, instead of Python (or Perl or Java), you will be
helping
> the "contribute to the Bill Gates financial relief fund."

Yes, unless of course you pirate it, use free editions
(such as VBScript), or use the VB that's inside some
application that you want to/have to use anyway, such
as Visio, Word, Autocad, and so on, and so forth.


Alex





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Aug  7 21:51:10 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 21:51:10 -0400
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
References: <mailman.997214232.31302.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uy9oviak1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim at zope.com> writes:

> The most obvious way is for you to-- just like you do on Unix --stay away
> from doing anything on Windows that *relies* on registry settings.  The core
> PythonLabs Windows distribution makes no use of the registry for normal
> operation, so if you're doing something that does need registry info, that's
> not our fault <wink>.

Right - and I've found the only real conflict with multiple versions
in the registry is with file extension registration - where the most
recent version of Python I've installed "wins".  That only comes into
play if you let Windows pick your Python interpreter - you can always
explicitly run a specific Python version against a script.  In the
end, I typically just edit the file associations to make them default
to the version I want as the default.

Since everything else is under a version specific Python tag in the
registry (or in the start menu), even with the default registry
adjusting installers, I've got 1.5.2, 2.0.1, 2.1.1 and 2.2a1 installed
simultaneously without any problems.  Note that multiple revisions of
the same version (e.g., 2.2a1 and any future 2.2a2 for example) will
have other conflicts as they use the same keys which are only major.minor.

The win32all extensions do really seem to need the registry (at the
least to find some magic modules), but they are also versioned (so the
DLLs don't conflict in the system directory) and installed beneath the
appropriate Python key for the version of the extensions, so I haven't
had any problem with them either.

I run most stuff with Cygwin/bash, so I have a few bash aliases that
run the right interpreter against a script when I want to pick
explicitly, and some others that temporarily adjust paths to default
to the right installation directories.  The same could be done with
.cmd files (or .bat files).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mr.murray at mindspring.com  Fri Aug 24 04:00:30 2001
From: mr.murray at mindspring.com (Andrew Murray)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:00:30 -0700
Subject: Plethora of strange cracker newbie questions
References: <3B85E791.E18BA991@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9m51de$fgn$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

I don't think requests like this are wierd. What
if they are trying to track the status of a server
on which they are hosting data? Set up a cron job:
to a)ping /scan the server b)email themselves with
any problems or c)attempt to contact them via irc...

Even if they are interested in cracking, virus/worm authoring
etc... I think such topics are a natural thing for a young programmer
to be interested in (for the theory, not the application) and usually people
learn a good deal about useful topics (tcp/ip stack, DNS etc) in the
process.
I think curiosity is always a great thing, as long as nobody gets
hurt : )

Andrew Murray
"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B85E791.E18BA991 at engcorp.com...
> Is it just me, or does it look like there's a new world-wide
> organization of Python newbie crackers all asking questions
> here with an eye towards creating some Python script bent
> on world domination or at least other nefarious deeds?
>
> Recently we've had a spate of newbies who "need" to send email
> (bulk mailer slime?), ping stuff (target discovery), interact
> with IRC servers (anyone not read http://grc.com/dos/intro.htm
> yet?), and several others I've already forgotten, including
> some which as I recall would be useful in building elements
> of a virus.
>
> Whatever happened to the good old newbies who asked about
> how to create a file so they could track their video tape
> collections on their computers?  Why are they jumping
> straight to low-level script-kiddie stuff which few of
> us even get a chance to do?
>
> Not that I don't like newbies or anything, but maybe it
> wouldn't be wise to be quite so blindly helpful as most
> c.l.py inhabitants have been in the past.  Maybe some
> hesitation and just dumping working source at them would
> be advisable.
>
> Am I just overly sensitive?
>
> --
> ----------------------
> Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
> peter at engcorp.com




From michael at rcp.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 03:15:59 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:15:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Stackless Python and Python 2.x
References: <Xns910BA52745692michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <Xns910D5488B669Cmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xns910BA52745692michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13: 

> What's the current status of Stackless Python in relation to the
> developing Python 2.x implementation?

An eloquent silence.

Alas.  I thought that building in continuations was a cute idea.  However, 
I've seen Guido van Rossum quoted as being against this because it's 
incompatible with the Java Virtual Machine (as I understood it).


From cgp at nospam.le.ac.uk  Tue Aug 14 05:42:03 2001
From: cgp at nospam.le.ac.uk (Clive Page)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 10:42:03 +0100
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <9larpb$6knlu@owl.le.ac.uk>

In article <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891 at news.uswest.net>,
Kevin Altis <altis at semi-retired.com> wrote:
>The comments about tkinter shipping with Python are valid. The question is
>often, why doesn't wxPython get included as part of the Python distribution?
>One of these days, Python needs to throw off the shackles of tcl/tkinter
>(let the flames begin).

That would be very nice.  I've used wxPython on Windows where there are
ready-built binaries, and it seems an excellent package, easy to use,
robust, fast, with powerful facilities. But I've been trying to build it
on Solaris or Linux, and have so far failed to get it working on either. 
The build process seems more complicated and flakier than anything that
I've ever encountered before, and judging by messages on the wxPython
list, I'm not the only one having trouble.  Tk has the advantage of coming
built-in with Python, but I think that's about its only advantage.

>> "Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
>>
>> -- Eric S. Raymond

I think it's because it's so darned difficult to build and install.


-- 
Clive Page   cgp at le.ac.uk


From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 10 16:05:17 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:05:17 GMT
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997468581.20816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n8fnj.h26.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <mailman.997468581.20816.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:
> [Just van Rossum]
>> What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
>>
>>   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/
> 
> [Grant Edwards]
>> Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit time.
> 
> If it were cumulative, how would you account for it going down some months?

Doh!

> Aha!  Broken integer division <wink>.

If some messages actually contain a negative amount of content,
in a particularly bad month, the total could drop?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PEGGY FLEMING is
                                  at               stealing BASKET BALLS to
                               visi.com            feed the babies in VERMONT.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Aug 28 18:14:00 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:14:00 -0700
Subject: TypeError
References: <3B8AB9F7.4020707@hotmail.com> <3B8C04F0.30906@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B8C17A7.A600A205@ccvcorp.com>

Martijn wrote:

> It still doesn`t work. This is a code snippet example from Python 2.1 Bible:
>
> class Wallet:
>         "where does my money go ?"
>                 WalletCnt = 0
>         def __init__(self,balance = 0):
>                 self.balance = balance
>                 Wallet.WalletCnt = Wallet.WalletCnt + 1
>         def getPaid(self,amnt):
>                 self.balance = self.balance +1
>                 self.display()
>
>         def spend(self,amnt):
>                 self.balance = self.balance -1
>                 self.display()
>
>         def display:
>                 print 'New Balance: $%.2f; % self.balance

Hm, I suspect there may be a couple of errors--the getPaid() and spend() methods
probably want to be adjusting self.balance by amnt, rather than 1;  also, the
display() method is missing a ' to close the string.  I'm going to presume those
are changed in the following examples.

Okay, to use this class from another file...  (presuming that this above class
is in a file called wallet.py)

>>> import wallet
>>> mywallet = wallet.Wallet(100.00)
>>> mywallet.getPaid(50.00)
New Balance: $150.00
>>> mywallet.spend(23.99)
New Balance: $126.01
>>> mywallet.getPaid(600.00) # payday!
New Balance: $726.01
>>> rent = 800.00
>>> mywallet.spend(rent) # uh oh!
New Balance: $-73.99
>>> mywallet.WalletCnt
1
>>> wallet.Wallet.WalletCnt   # this is the same thing!
1

Does this help?

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Sun Aug 19 03:30:20 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:30:20 +0200
Subject: Function call performance timer
References: <mailman.998183429.18611.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7F6B0C.721F75B8@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi,

> I've written a driver for a serial port LCD in Python.

Any chance you make that thing open source, e.g. available to the
public? Sounds pretty cool to me, just what I would need to put a
digital version of the classic where-am-i-o-matic at my door... And in
the best case, someone else will make it faster for you ;-)

Kudos, Dietmar


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Sun Aug  5 09:36:33 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:36:33 +0100
Subject: Tracking memory usage
Message-ID: <3B6D4BE1.1030307@herts.ac.uk>

Just wondering. Is there any way to profile the memory usage of my 
program and the data structures in my program in python. I have a 
program that is potentially extremely memory intensive and it would be 
helpful to have this info at the data stucture level of resolution. 
Additionally, I would like to be able to take dynamic alternative action 
if certain data structures exceed certain limits.

I can hope can't I?

Blobby



From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 05:14:28 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:14:28 +0200
Subject: know if someone ping me
References: <mailman.998546434.927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1777401.ESeGDPOM1B@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

noprianto <opennopri at yahoo.com> schrub:

> How do i know if someone ping my system ?

Oh, well, "ping" in what sense?

- CIMP echo request message?
- ARP "ping" (address request)?
- IRC Ping?
- UDP Echo Message (port 7)?
- TCP  faked package "ping" (provokes a reset)?
- TCP Keepalive Messages?

or something else I don't remember?

And what has this to do with python?

And why do you want to know?

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From chrishbarker at home.net  Wed Aug 15 14:24:38 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:24:38 -0700
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com> <3B79AF68.EE4937E7@home.net> <3B79B909.E6E93848@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B7ABE66.E4C6EFEC@home.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> > fh = open("file", "r")
> > line = fh.readline()
> > while 1:
> >     # do stuff with line
> >     # there could be a LOT of code here
> >
> >     line = fh.readline()
> 
> Definitely better than what you used to do, since your code
> wouldn't exit.  Or was that the point? :)

OOPS. never post code you havn't tested!!! that should be:

while line:  # of course


-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug  5 15:46:17 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0500
Subject: Installing module: import error "No module named 'new'"
In-Reply-To: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com>
References: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15213.41609.104562.44089@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sheila> ImportError: No module named new

    Sheila> This has me really puzzled, as the docs for Python 2.0 list the
    Sheila> new module in the Global Module Index, but when I look for that
    Sheila> file in both my Windows machine and on my Linux web host, I do
    Sheila> not fine it.

    Sheila> How should I proceed at this point? Why isn't the "new" module
    Sheila> available to me???

It probably is available, but isn't being built by default.  While the new
module has no esoteric library or hardward dependencies that would dictate
it not be built for all platforms, it is a bit of a wizardly module, since
it allows you to create all sorts of Python objects you normally can't
create directly from Python code (functions, code objects, etc).  In other
words, it is like a small howitzer, aimed directly at your foot, just
waiting for you to sneeze. ;-)

On Linux, check your Module/Setup file, uncomment the new module's line and
reexecute make.  (I've no idea how you'd coax Windows into building it for
you.)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de  Sun Aug 19 12:33:42 2001
From: Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 16:33:42 GMT
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>

On 19 Aug 2001 00:31:40 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:

>  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>>> problem with enforcing privacy is that the designer can seldom
>>> anticipate all of the possible uses of their code and placing arbitrary
>>> access restriction can make it impossible for the user to accomplish
>>> their task.

Access restriction should never be used to arbitrarily prevent a user from
performing a task. The only idea behind restriction is to hide internal
details for having more stable code. If a class (by hiding details) is not
offering all the possibilities it clearly could offer, it is simply bad
designed (of course this happens). But to think removing all 'private' and
'protected' restrictions from such a bad designed class would really solve a
problem is foolish. You will only get deeper into the mess. One basic
priniple of OOP is providing a lot of methods - may be much more than you
actually need. Yes, good design isn't easy and nobody has ever said that OOP
alone is a guarantee for perfect code.

If you are missing feautures you can't easily implement, you should contact
the author - or use other code. Workarounds (or the possibility of doing so)
should never be a strong principle of software design. Almost every time one
is paying a high price for this behaviour - this may be years later.

The lack of access restriction possibilities should not be reinterpreted
into a feature. If it would be so ingenious _not_ to have them, a
substantial number of C++ programmers would put a 'public:' as first
statement in every class and never write a 'private:' or 'protected:'. I
never heard of this. It is a design decision to keep python simple and easy
to learn (and simplicity is a feature) - not more. One may say: "In my
opinion access restriction is not neccessary" - this is ok for many small
and medium projects. 

>> Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient

They are not omniscient but they should have visions. And accepting these
visions and live and work with them (of course after choosing a suitable
design first) seems to me being far more better than using brute force and
quick hacks which only means: Only my point of view is right, nothing else
and my first choice would be programming against any idea which is not mine.

>> and a language that lets me workaround a limitation in the design of a
>> framework or library I need to use is just what I need.

> [...] the very existence of a workaround is sometimes itself a limitation,

Indeed. But this tends not to be seen by omniscient people :-)





Bernd


From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 18:56:20 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:56:20 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk> <8jjmmtkfpsga1jam9vsfjrs82iulkd05an@4ax.com> <9kgnq912p9u@enews4.newsguy.com> <alaomtk4neti850qifpgmp1396cofeot2r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B6C7BD6.3219181E@yahoo.com>

Courageous wrote:
> 
> >> I'd say that Java's three biggest reasons for success are hype,
> >> marketing,
> >
> >You write as if there was a distinction between these two...?-)
> 
> Well all they hype was spread by word of mouth. Marketing hype
> was spread by evil corporate interests. But, no matter. Would you
> rather "I'd say that Java's three biggest reasons for success are
> hype, hype, and the kitchen sink." :)

How about "Java's three -- no, FOUR biggest reasons for success are hype, hype,
hype, and the kitchen sink." ! 

but-I'll-take-python's-comfy-chair-ly-y'rs,

--PW

...................    paul winkler   ....................
custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
       A member of ARMS:   http://www.reacharms.com
            home page:  http://www.slinkp.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug  9 01:02:11 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:02:11 -0400
Subject: Popmail.py Need help.....................
References: <%Pnc7.5649$V43.473350@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B721953.B1A385FB@engcorp.com>

Relfx wrote:
> 
> I have tried using these modules but i'm getting some errors when i run the
> script.
> 
> M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')

> >>>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\Python21\Scripts\popmail.py", line 2, in ?
>     M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')
>   File "C:\PYTHON21\lib\poplib.py", line 79, in __init__
>     self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
>   File "<string>", line 1, in connect
> error: host not found

"Host not found" should tell you something.  It's not the
script that's the problem, it's the address you are using.

pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net does not exist.

Try just mail.bellsouth.net, or mia.bellsouth.net, or
even mail.mia.bellsouth.net.

When attempting to debug network applications, you should
learn to use several handy-dandy tools for troubleshooting.

First try ping.  If that doesn't work, don't waste your
time trying to connect to the other host (unless it
is hiding behind a firewall, in which case you need to 
know a lot more about networking and such before you 
attempt this stuff).

Another one is 'host', if you're on Unix.  This will 
attempt to look up the IP address of the named host
in your DNS and report it.  You can also look into
'nslookup' or the newer 'dig'.

Next, if you can see the host with ping, try using telnet.
Telnet allows you to establish a "raw" TCP connection to 
an arbitrary port on a host.  If you can't connect with
telnet, you're wasting your time trying to connect with
HTTP, POP, SMTP, or any of a hundred other standard
TCP protocols.

$ telnet mail.bellsouth.net 110

+OK InterMail POP3 server ready.
user guest
+OK please send PASS command
pass password
-ERR invalid user name or password.
help
-ERR Invalid command; valid commands: USER, QUIT
quit
+OK guest InterMail POP3 server signing off.

(The things with + and - are the responses from 
the Bellsouth POP3 server.  The rest is what 
I typed.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug 30 20:25:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:25:11 -0400
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108301156480.271-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEBFLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Steven D. Majewski]
> A *SLIGHT* ambiguity !
>
> It's extremely ambiguous.
>
> What does:
> 	"e1 e2 e3 e4 e5"
> mean when more than one of those e's is a function ?
> Can you tell which ones represent function calls if you don't
> know the value of all of the e's ?

Did you ever check out REBOL?  That's the case there:  it's kind of like
Scheme but with mixed infix/reverse-forth <0.5 wink> notation, and you
actually can't know at compile-time how it groups.  Something like

    probe copy/part next colors back tail colors

is fine (and, indeed, taken verbatim from the reference manual).  If colors
is bound to the list [red green blue], that produces [green].  At runtime it
actually groups like this:

    probe(
          copy/part(next(colors),
                    back(tail(colors))
                   )
         )

where "copy/part" is effectively a single name.

It's actually quite readable in simple cases, like

    print third colors

but in complex cases it really gave me a headache.  I was assured at least
once that the implementation wasn't always delighted either <wink>.




From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Tue Aug 21 16:16:08 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:16:08 GMT
Subject: Python & IRC : Is it a fantasy or reality 
In-Reply-To: <rCyg7.3606$zk4.319925@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
References: <rCyg7.3606$zk4.319925@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211505420.1853-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Relfx wrote:

> I'm not sure how many of you saw someo f my earlier posts a couple of weeks
> ago about wanting to make a irc client with python. I have taken a look at a
> few sites and tried ot find as much info on asynchronous modules and
> asynchat but the documentation is that good.
> 
>     As for other windows irc clients it doesn't seem theywant to have
> anything to do with it. Is python fading away or something? Why is it so
> hard to get some help on making a simple irc client for windows 98 that i
> can use to make scripts using python's programming language. Everywhere i
> turn I see people talking about MIRC and it's unique scripting language. I
> find python very intersting and I would like to have a irc client for
> windows 98-2000 so that I can progress more efficiently.

Well, Xchat has Python scripting abilities.  It is not written in Python
AFAIK, but that is part of what you wanted.



From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 22 15:44:18 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:44:18 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com>

Let me begin with a caveat: I am zonked out on cold drugs. 
My reading of the PEP, and writing of this post, might 
suffer because of this. Throwing caution to the wind, 
here's my stupid question: What is the name (if any) of a 
type's (now class's) value attribute? Let me explain. 
Suppose I create an integer:

    spam = 3

The variable "spam" is an Integer, "Integer" is now a class
(unification, right?), so there should be *some* attribute
of the class Integer, lets call it __myval__, such that:

    spam.__myval__ == 3

And, in fact, writing "spam" in most assignments and tests
should just be a shorthand for "spam.__myval__". Further,
"__myval__" should be in Integer.__dict__, so that 
introspection works with it as with other attributes. 

Does this make any sense? Or should I swear off cold meds 
when posting to comp.lang.python?

Russell


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:24:47 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:24:47 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9m307s025io@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es> wrote in message
news:9m2sij$1f8s$1 at ID-102451.news.dfncis.de...
    ...
> the implementation is easy and the current programs are not affected at
all.

Wrong!  The currently correct program:
    print "prolegomena"[3     # 4]
        ]
becomes syntactically erroneous under your proposal.  (It's
currently quite OK since # starts a comment, so the logical
line continues, having an unclosed open-bracket, and finds
the matching closed-bracket on the next line).


Alex





From parz at home.com  Thu Aug 16 08:08:53 2001
From: parz at home.com (Parzival Herzog)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:08:53 GMT
Subject: Extension module crashes when Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS is used in Windows event loop. 
Message-ID: <pJOe7.11274$Tn1.3204167@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

(Sorry if you have seen this post before, it has not appeared on
the newsgroup with my ISP, so I am re-posting.)

I have a problem with a crash in a Windows (Win 2K) message loop
coded in a python extension module. I wonder if someone can
see something wrong with the code below.

The context is this: My Python program was originally coded using
wxWindows. It worked very well, but, after running for a full week or
more on my client's machines, their machine would crash with a
totally garbled display. All the common things were checked,
memory leaks, GDI object leaks, the display cards were changed,
and on and on. I ran the program on two of my own machines,
and it ran for more than two weeks without failure. My client
calls the shots, and he required that the app be re-written to
not use wxWindows. I thereupon coded a C extension module to
perform basic graphics and gui operations, and wrote a
Python module that implemented the subset of the wxWindows
interface that was used by my app, using this extension module.
This too "works". My Python program delivers essentially the
same appearance and behaviour using my interface and extension
module, as it did when it ran using wxWindows.  However, there
are a couple of unresolved problems, and I am hoping to get
some help with one of them.

The app runs, and when I change desktops (I have a multiple-
desktop utility), a windows event occurs, and BEFORE it is
delivered by GetMessage, a crash (acces violation) occurs
inside of the GetMessage, which had bee blocked until this
(unknown) event occurs. The same crash also occurs if I
use the little applet to magnify the screen. That applet
reconfigures the desktop so that the "screen" is reduced
in size, leaving a band at the top of the screen that displays
the magnified pixels near the cursor. When the magnifier
does this reconfiguration of the desktop, an unknown event
occurs, and GetMessage crashes before it can return the
event to the message loop. Again I have checked for
GDI object leaks, memory leaks, reference counting errors
etc.

Although my app when fully functioning is multi-threading,
I removed all the threading code. No threads but the main
thread are running, so there are no deadlock or resource
races or other concurrent programming issues as far a I
know. However, the crash will not occur if the
Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS ... Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
bracket is removed from around the GetMessage call.

Can anyone shed some light on what the problem here could be?

Thanks,

    Parzival


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

static PyObject *MyWin_MessageLoop (PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
   // Windows dispatch loop begins here.
   MSG Message;
   bool Quit = false;
   for ( ; ; ) {

      if (::PeekMessage(&Message, NULL, 0, 0, PM_NOREMOVE) == 0) {
          Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
// App crashes somewhere in GetMessage if Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
// call above is executed. Does not crash if it and the matching
// Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS below are removed. No threads are
// instantiated or active.
          Quit = GetMessage(&Message, NULL, NULL, NULL) == 0;
          Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
      } else
          Quit = GetMessage(&Message, NULL, NULL, NULL) == 0;

      if (Quit) break;

      if (Message.message == WM_USER + 1) {
         InvalidateRect (_Window, NULL, TRUE);
         UpdateWindow (_Window);
      } else if (Message.message == WM_USER + 2) {
         if ( _App ) {
            PyObject* args = (PyObject*) Message.lParam;
            PyObject* res = PyObject_CallMethod(_App, "OnEvent", "O", args);
            Py_DECREF(args);
            if ( res == NULL && PyErr_Occurred() )
               PyErr_Print();
         }
      } else {
         TranslateMessage (&Message);
         DispatchMessage (&Message);
      }
   }






From tomhuckstep at bigfoot.spammenot.com  Thu Aug  9 09:04:21 2001
From: tomhuckstep at bigfoot.spammenot.com (Tom Huckstep)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:04:21 +0000
Subject: Searchable python documentation
Message-ID: <9ktu83$9bn$1@s1.uklinux.net>

Is there any searchable python documentation, that performs
a bit like man, so I could do

$ pyman compile

and it would show me the documentation for the builtin
function compile?

If not I am thinking of writing a couple of programs to
perform that task:  one to make an index of the HTML
module documentation, and another to search through it and
invoke a web browser when it finds what you want.

I don't want to duplicate anyone's work though.  Does this
kind of thing exist already?  If it doesn't, does anyone
have any thoughts or comments on my idea?

Tom



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 18:48:44 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:48:44 +0100
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org> <slrn9nnrkv.47f.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <1232517.SZvhalqRGM@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <slrn9nojec.5dj.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:58:29 +0200, Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> schrub:
>
>> parses text. Note also that this is documentted under the heading
>> "Parsing MIME documents" which wants to be changed to something like
>> "Parsing Mail Documents".
>
>That is definitely not true, because there are other uses for mime 
>encapsulation, not only mail. The nearest example is Usenet News.

True.

My point was that the section entitled "Parsing MIME documents" is 
also about parsing non-MIME documents.

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Aug 28 14:32:56 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:32:56 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8BE3D8.EAB4C152@ccvcorp.com>


jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> Hello people
>
> I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language for
> me to use.

Welcome!  Python *is* a very nice language to use--one of the friendliest ones
around.

> is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?

Well, not *every* OS, but just about every major one, including Win9x/NT/2k/CE,
Linux, most unices, Mac, BeOS, VMS ...

> I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
> like it. If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a python
> sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")

There isn't a simple way to do *exactly* that (an input box) in Python, because
it runs on so many widely different platforms, including ones with no windowing
system/GUI.  However, you could do something similar with:

naam = raw_input(prompt="What's your name? ")

> Is python hard to learn? And is there a dutch person in this group? If there
> is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.

Python is *very* easy to learn--perhaps easier than any other (non-toy)
language.  There is quite a bit of tutorials and documentation available online,
too (though most of it is in English, of course).  And yes, there are definately
Dutch python-users -- in fact, the inventor of Python is Dutch, though he
doesn't have much time to keep up with this newsgroup.  I don't know of any
specifically dutch books, but you may want to look at

 www.python.org/doc/NonEnglish.html

for an idea of what is available in languages other than english.  You may want
to look through the rest of

www.python.org

as well, it's loaded with useful information and links to other Python-related
sites.

>
> Could you please answer my questions? Thanks.
>
> Bye,
>
>         Jeroen

You're welcome, and happy Python-ing!  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 15 17:36:46 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:36:46 +0200
Subject: How to define a callback from Python to a C program ...
References: <3B7AB97F.E2103C67@toppoint.de> <3240392.1g2EtIAgqj@lunix.schabi.de> <3B7AE3CB.ACCCFD32@toppoint.de>
Message-ID: <1178625.xl52yBJDM9@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Marten Feldtmann <marten at toppoint.de> schrub:

>> If the language your application is written lets you execute external
>> programs, than you can use pipes. Start the python program from your
>> application, and then communicate with it through the pipes.
> 
>  Hmm ...

Especially named pipes are easy to use when doing with linux, just use 
the mkfifo command.

try the following using 3 xterms / shells:

First shell:
$ mkfifo inputfifo
$ mkfifo outputfifo
$ sort inputfifo >outputfifo

second shell:
$ cat outputfifo

third shell:
$ cat >inputfifo
a
c
b
test
z
a
[CTRL-C]

As you see, the sort command can use the fifos just like normal files, 
and the cat command do the same. The sorted result should appear in the 
second shell when you press CTRL-C.

>> If both fails, you could open a tcp or udp socket, and communicate
>> this way.
> 
>  Ok, that could do it ....

This solution even makes it possible that both programs run on 
different hosts.

When run on the same host, you could open a tcp Server Socket (two-way 
communication) in smalltalk, and then pass IP-address and port to the 
pyhton program as comand line parameters.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From tbryan at python.net  Fri Aug  3 15:13:29 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:13:29 +0500
Subject: Installing MySQL-python-0.9.0.tar.gz
References: <3B6B71F6.55008365@umdnj.edu>
Message-ID: <9kfsfj$kgg$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Andrey Revyakin wrote:

> I am a newbie and I don't have any experience with instaling modules. I
> attepmted  to install the MySQL-python-0.9.0.tar.gz package on a Darwin
> machine. I set all paths correctly, but when I try to install it says
> that it's unable to locate the Python.h file. What is this file and
> where should it be?

To wire the C-extension module into Python code, the C code needs access to 
some of the Python internals.  When installing/compiling C-extension 
modules (like most DB interfaces), you'll need to have the Python sources 
or at least the header files if there is a distribution that packages the 
headers separate from the source (like Red Hat's RPMs does).  

---Tom



From joecotellese at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 05:16:40 2001
From: joecotellese at spamcop.net (Joe Cotellese)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:44:40 +0228
Subject: SWIG'ed interface undefined symbol errors
Message-ID: <oe8j7.129$of1.45846575@news.netcarrier.net>

Hello all,

I'm trying to add a SWIG interface to the ID3lib library. I'm new to SWIG 
and python extensions.  

I created the interface file for the classes I wish to expose and have 
sucessfully compiled the resultant .cpp files into the ID3library. Now, I'm 
trying to import the library into the interpreter. When I import the 
library python chokes with an ImportError. Apparently, it's trying to 
resolve a function named uncompress.  I dug into the id3lib source code. 
and found that uncompress is a zlib function. It looks like zlib is 
dynamically linked to id3lib. 

My question is why can't the interpreter resolve the uncompress function by 
loading zlib? Do I need to statically link zlib to the id3 library?

Thanks in advance.

Joe Cotellese.


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug  7 12:48:53 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 09:48:53 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
References: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie> <15212.23320.31927.755668@beluga.mojam.com> <mailman.996962708.27994.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kp65l$l7o$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.996962708.27994.python-list at python.org>,
 <zooko at zooko.com> wrote:
>
>So I wrote a monotonically-increasing timer[2], which was a bit
>trickier than I thought it would be.  It comes with its own unit test,
>and if you have RunTests[3] then you can execute `timerutil.py' itself
>to run all of its tests.  The application which needs monotonically
>increasing timestamps is the `DoQ'[4] (the "do queue") -- a simple
>event scheduler that we use in Mojo Nation.

I suggest using Python longs instead (not ints -- they only provide 31
bits of precision on most platforms for your purpose).

But I think you've got an algorithmic problem: you said you wanted to
run certain events in a sequence.  Why aren't you combining all of those
events into a single package?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From timr at probo.com  Fri Aug 17 19:32:14 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:32:14 -0700
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
References: <mailman.997917625.3557.python-list@python.org> <i4hgl9.ok1.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <6barntgq6dnednsa03d5f9elbo0vip2mkt@4ax.com>

gradha at iname.com wrote:

>Dave Cinege <dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote:
>> How does one exec a python program with a password on the cmdline?
>
>Doing this is silly, stupid, a security breach, <put here expelletive>, etc.
>Don't you see a password on a commandline can be seen by other tools of
>the same operative system? On Unix is as easy as running "ps aux". Under
>Windows I had once used similar tools to watch processes and their system
>information.

Right.  That is EXACTLY why he wants to alter argv.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From wware at world.std.com  Thu Aug 23 18:08:42 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:08:42 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9m3hpp$567$1@usenet.Stanford.EDU> <9m3kvp$73mp$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <GIJK6J.n1H@world.std.com>

"Chad Franklin Netzer" <cnetzer at Stanford.EDU> wrote in message
> :-)  Well, *I* thought it was funny...

Emile van Sebille (emile at fenx.com) wrote:
> Me too.  ;-)

Ten minutes after I posted my response, I finally got it.
Yes, it was funny.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 09:35:10 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:35:10 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B6FEE8E.6070505@herts.ac.uk>

I am wondering whether this is a problem that would be nicely dealt with 
a recursive function, but I must say I am wary of recursion generally. I 
know it looks like sexy programming, and often very concise (if not that 
easy to read), but my understanding is that memory usage can get out of 
control easily


Blobbby



From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Aug 23 17:37:25 2001
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:37:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Iterating throught 2 lists at the same time
References: <9m3rmg$8u55$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9m3t2l$3dj0$2@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:16:17 -0400, Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu>:
> Hi,
>   I have the following construct:
> 
>>>> a = ['a','b','c']
>>>> b = ['x','y','z']
>>>> for i,j in a,b:
> ...     print i,j
> ... 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> 
> 


how about:

for c in zip(a,b):
   print c



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Aug 29 10:25:48 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 17:25:48 +0300
Subject: privacy in Python
References: <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kug0ab9c43.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0 at posting.google.com>,
ens_z at yahoo.com (Ens) writes:

| class cls:
| 	def f(self, a, b):
| 		print a+b
| 	__p=12

| obj=cls()
| fun=obj.f
| print fun.im_self._cls__p

| 12

| I need that '__p' exactly be private.

like in most languages (eg java and c++), "private" in python is not
meant to provide data security against malicious users - one
can get around it if he knows how it works behind the scenes.

  -- erno


From grante at visi.com  Mon Aug 27 14:03:21 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:03:21 GMT
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ol2ve.cb0.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p at 4ax.com>, Sheila King wrote:

> This is one of the reasons that I've been trying to write my
> scripts so that they will still run on 1.5.2. I imagine quite a
> few hosts out there, who run RH out of the box will only be
> offering 1.5.2.

Yea, I maintain a Python program that we distribute with one of
our products.  Until RedHat starts installing 2.0, I have to
support 1.5.2 also.  :(

> Plus, there is the whole thing, with some people not even
> wanting to touch the RH 7.x. (I don't understand all the issues
> around this, but the fact is that even if RH does update their
> Python in their install routines, that some people don't even
> want to use the latest RH, for some reason...)

The last few x.0 distributions from RH haven't been pretty --
and they seem to be getting worse.  6.0 had quite a few
problems, and 7.0 was a disaster.  7.1 is usable, but it still
has Python 1.5.2 as the "default" Python, though 2.0 is
available as an optional package.  Some of the RH system
administration stuff was/is written in Python (both the
installer and rpm started life as a Python program, IIRC), and
I guess it's too much work to get it all working under 2.[01].

The good news is that everybody w/ RH has Python.  The bad news
is that it's so intimately connected with the system that it
doesn't get updated the way it would if it were just another
optional package.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm not available
                                  at               for comment...
                               visi.com            


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 31 23:00:03 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:00:03 -0700
Subject: Dir List
References: <mailman.999281868.8326.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mpj8v$3if61$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

you mean:

>>> import os
>>> os.listdir('.')

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Charles" <charles at a3a.com.br> wrote in message
news:mailman.999281868.8326.python-list at python.org...
> Hi
> Anyone know, if python have a alternative module to dircache ?
> to list a directory ?
>
> Thanks
> Charles
>
>



From ftilney at commercetone.com  Thu Aug  2 14:33:46 2001
From: ftilney at commercetone.com (Francis Tilney)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:33:46 -0700
Subject: SSL_connect error in Python 2.1.1 on IRIX 6.5
Message-ID: <3ff735af.0108021033.3d7612eb@posting.google.com>

I built Python 2.1.1 on an SGI machine with SSL enabled.

However when I tried to connect to an https connection I got an error.

(Another similar test suggested that the ssl error was error 1 (SSL_ERROR_SSL)).

Traceback is below.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

bash-2.05$ python
Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug  2 2001, 12:10:37)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on irix646
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import urllib
>>> url = 'https://homelink.fleet.com/'
>>> input = urllib.urlopen(url)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/merc/ftilney/Python-2.1.1/Lib/urllib.py", line 71, in urlopen
    return _urlopener.open(url)
  File "/merc/ftilney/Python-2.1.1/Lib/urllib.py", line 176, in open
    return getattr(self, name)(url)
  File "/merc/ftilney/Python-2.1.1/Lib/urllib.py", line 361, in open_https
    h.putrequest('GET', selector)
  File "/merc/ftilney/Python-2.1.1/Lib/httplib.py", line 437, in putrequest
    self.send(str)
  File "/merc/ftilney/Python-2.1.1/Lib/httplib.py", line 379, in send
    self.connect()
  File "/merc/ftilney/Python-2.1.1/Lib/httplib.py", line 639, in connect
    ssl = socket.ssl(realsock, self.key_file, self.cert_file)
socket.sslerror: SSL_connect error
>>>

System details:

bash-2.05$ uname -a
IRIX64 sgi03 6.5 01200532 IP27
bash-2.05$

I believe that the openssl is version 0.9.6b.


From tub4jxr at hotmail.com  Mon Aug  6 23:33:50 2001
From: tub4jxr at hotmail.com (Jose Rodriguez)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 20:33:50 -0700
Subject: Accessing ODBC Database
Message-ID: <89302408.0108061933.5d4a4638@posting.google.com>

Can someone assist me with providing a clear example concerning how to
access a database from the standpoint of:

a - establishing the connection to the datasource (DSN)
b - how to do the SQL string to query a table
c - writing a record (insert) to the datasource
d - deleting a record from the datasource (and moving record pointer
accordingly)
e - closing the connection

I am currently just overly confusing myself as to how this is done
(should be done) and what modules to import.  I would like to use
Python to quickly come up with code periodically to do simple record
manipulations on a DSN.  Currently I use Winbatch to do my system
automation but it looks like Python can do everything that WinBatch
can and then some.

Appreciate any and all help.

Thank you


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug  1 12:47:15 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:47:15 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:35:44 GMT."
             <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <m15Rz9P-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

> When I released Python 2.2a1, the type/class unification feature was
> announced as TENTATIVE.  It's been a while now (feels like a year,
> although I realize it's only been 10 days :), and I would like to see
> some feedback on this.
> 
> If there's anyone who believes the type/class unification should not
> become a feature in Python 2.2, please speak up now or forever hold
> your peace...  (But I'd rather you speak up!)

Nice work!

I hope it'll go into 2.2.

> I realize the PEPs aren't done yet, but I believe that the separate
> introduction I wrote goes a long way towards explaining type/class
> unification.  Read it here:
> 
>   http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
> 
> Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

You mention that the mro-list will be constructed at class definition
time. Does that mean that changes to `__bases__` are going to be
outlawed? Playing tricks with __bases__ was sometimes handy.

Do you have a name for the new lookup rule?

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 27 12:04:39 2001
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:04:39 -0700
Subject: displayhook = pprint & _ not happy together
References: <b03e80d.0108260540.15584b05@posting.google.com> <9md45s01kt9@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0108270804.a187649@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<9md45s01kt9 at enews1.newsguy.com>...

> or whatever exact logic you wish.  That's better than
> using pprint.pprint directly and getting a None displayed
> each time you interactively call a subroutine, anyway:-).

Thanks a bunch, your solution works like a charm :-)

regards,

Sandy


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 18:43:32 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:43:32 -0400
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999028783.18165.python-list@python.org> <x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <J4Vi7.172382$rV6.8623803@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.999028783.18165.python-list at python.org...
> > [Tim]
> > > ...
> > > My bet is the poster would rather, e.g., see '0.67' than '0.66' given
> > > a=2 and b=3.  If you're going to fake fp by hand, then you're
> > > responsible for faking all of it, incl. sensible rounding.
> >
> > [Rainer Deyke]
> > > c = (((a * 200) / b) + 1) / 2
> > > s = '%03d' % c
> > > file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
> >
> > So that, e.g., 1/200 rounds to '0.01', but (-1)/200 rounds to '0.00' and
> > loses the minus sign?  '%.2f' looks better all the time <0.2f wink>.
>
> If you're that picky about accuracy, floats are definitely the wrong
choice.
>
Wrong. Tim isn't being picky about accuracy, he's being picky about
correctly rounding numbers to the required number of decimal places. If a
number is 6.66666 (plus or minus noise beyond ten decimal places) there is
no system which makes 6.66 the correct answer to 2 D.P.

> >>> '%.2f' % (0.005)
> '0.01'
> >>> '%.2f' % (0.015)
> '0.01'
> >>> '%.2f' % (0.025)
> '0.03'
>
Perfect, and just what a numerical analyst would require: alternate cases
that are exactly at the midpoint round in opposite directions. [Thouhg in
fact it's a bit lucky, and I seem to remember the rule I was taught back in
the days when you did this sort of thing on a motor-driven calculator said
round up if the digit before 5 is evan, down if it's odd. Since this is
almost 30 years on, I'm sure you'll forgive me if I'm wrong).

> If you want symmetry about 0, that's easy enough:
>
> c = (((abs(a) * 200) / abs(b)) + 1) / 2
> if a < 0: c = -c
> if b < 0: c = -c
> s = '%03d' % c
> file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
>
> But why stop there?  Why not use accountant rounding (i.e. when rounding
to
> the nearest multiple of N, if a number is exactly between two multiples of
> N, pick the one which is a multiple of 2 * N)?
>
> c / (a * 100) / b
> n = (a * 100) % b
> if n * 2 > b: c += 1
> elif n * 2 == b:
>   c += (c & 1)
> s = '%03d' % c
> file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
>
>
Alternately, and more to the point, why go to all these lengths when the
implementors of Python have given us the perfectly reasonable string format
feature that Tim keep politely suggesting you use :-)

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From fleet at teachout.org  Sun Aug  5 22:49:41 2001
From: fleet at teachout.org (fleet at teachout.org)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:49:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from
 ENGSOL
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052246370.5291-100000@fleet1>

I think I'm hung up on the substitution thing again.  If I wanted to name this 'show.py' and
be able to use 'python show.py math' on the command line - how do I get "import sys.argv[1]"
to work.  (and I would already have imported 'sys.')  I tried 'eval()' without success - kept
getting "invalid syntax" although the proper string was shown.

					- fleet -

>   From: Tom Robinson <tom at alkali.spamfree.org>
>Subject: Re: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from ENGSOL
>
>Here's a hack to show the __doc__ for everything in a module:
>
>import os
>
>for x in dir(os):
>    try:
>        print "%s\n%s\n%s\n" % (x, '-'*35, os.__dict__[x].__doc__)
>    except AttributeError:
>        print "*** no __doc__ for os.%s\n" % (x)
>
>--
>tom at alkali.spamfree.org
>remove 'spamfree.' to respond
>--




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Aug  7 09:46:23 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 09:46:23 -0400
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEOOLDAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEOOLDAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <oqzo9chtjk.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Tim Peters]

> it was just unbearable that recompiling the world [on Cray's] should take 6
> minutes instead of 3.  That's the last time I took users seriously <wink>.

Those machines were quite impressive at the time, speed-wise.  I found
astonishing that a batch job could be initiated at a control point, executed,
and terminated within two refresh cycles of the monitor display, and so,
be invisible to the operator.  (Yet, COS was strangely designed underneath.)

> the real gain achieved thru auto-vectorizing/parallelizing compilers
> was that they taught users *how* to write code clearly worth vectorizing
> and parallelizing.

Exactly.  It is a bit strange that compiler-competent people were surprised.
This is how CFT was documented and taught to its end users.  Having intimate
knowledge of the machine was tremendously helping, anyway.

This is not unrelated to how one gets speed out of Python code.  It helps
knowing a bit how it works inside.  _You_, in particular, educated me!

> [...] processor "multimedia extensions" (newspeak for feeble little vector
> registers <0.5 wink>):

All the same story, all the time in the field of computers.  Old ideas
keep resurrecting with an all new terminology.  Newcomers, and even others,
firmly believe that things were just invented yesterday, and that computer
science moves fast.  I'm not so sure. :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Wed Aug 15 18:20:26 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:20:26 +0300
Subject: is this a bug?
Message-ID: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>

I am using python 2.1 in Redhat Linux.
Do you find anything irrational to the following session?
>>> a='+='
>>> a is a
1
>>> a is '+='
0
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> a = 'dsd'
>>> a is 'dsd'
1
>>> '+=' is '+='
1
>>>

I apologize if this has been brought to the attention of this group before.
Maybe I did misunderstand the use of the 'is' operator, but then how it is
supposed to work?

	.Bill


From neila at nospam.moc  Sat Aug 25 22:17:58 2001
From: neila at nospam.moc (MegaHurts)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:17:58 -0700
Subject: Combination News/EMail/Webspace Provider?
Message-ID: <3b885985_4@Newsfeeds.com>

Many months ago somebody posted a couple of
suggestions for news servers.  One which received
good reports offered NG access, but also provided
webspace and email accounts-- for $75 per year.

Ring any bells?  Google did not help, with such
generic search parameters.

All suggestions appreciated.

MH







-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From david.perkinson at adtran.com  Wed Aug  1 18:12:40 2001
From: david.perkinson at adtran.com (David)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:12:40 -0500
Subject: is there a JDOM like library?
Message-ID: <tmgvd9gdmbm26e@corp.supernews.com>

Is there a DOM/XML GPL'd library for Python that is as easy to use as JDOM?
Element root = doc.getRootElement();
Element child = root.getChild("foo");
String text = child.getText();





From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Fri Aug 10 23:14:24 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 05:14:24 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <00ac01c12214$1f02c4d0$e2bd6ac2@zko>

From: Jeremy and Debra Jones <dnjjones at yahoo.com>
> 
> It seems like if you were to do it in a rdbms, you would need at least two
> tables:
> 
> 1)  one table with the definition of the thing itself: a primary
> identification key, name, parent, any extra info that you may want to put in
> there about the thing.
> 2)  another table that has a foreign identification key linking back to the
> primary key in the first table, and another foreign key linking back to the
> primary key of the first table of the children of this particular thing.
> 
> Since any particular thing can have multiple children and only one parent,
> and you would want to look up and down the hierarchy, it seems like you
> would have to set it up like the above.
> 

No, one table:
TBL
( PARENT, CHILD, CHILD_ATRIBUTE1,..,
 PRIMARY KEY (PARENT, CHILD))

example:

SELECT CHILD FROM TBL WHERE PARENT = 'ROOT';

and continue as user asks (or automaticaly). 
 
gzeljko








From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 24 14:42:35 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:42:35 GMT
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net> <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu> <9m5nkv$ft15$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3b86a05d.354015106@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:12:57 -0700, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})
>
That seems to work, but where is that form of exec statement documented?
Is that form effectively equivalent to eval?

BTW, I thought this was interesting, to see which global gets
overridden and which doesn't:

 >>> def a():
 ...     print 'a() thinks b is "%s"' % b
 ...
 >>> b='from interactive binding'
 >>> exec """
 ... print 'exec-ed string thinks a="%s",b="%s"' % (a,b)
 ... a()
 ... """ in {'a':a, 'b':'from exec dict'}
 exec-ed string thinks a="<function a at 007FA77C>",b="from exec dict"
 a() thinks b is "from interactive binding"
 >>> exec a.func_code in {'b':'from exec dict'}
 a() thinks b is "from exec dict"
 >>>



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug 22 16:45:38 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:45:38 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8419F2.E06368F@ActiveState.com>

Alan Green wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> All of these IDEs have a debugger. None support multi-threaded
> debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.

Multithreaded debugging is an issue but a much bigger issue for most
Python programmers is debugging of GUIs in arbitrary GUI toolkits. The
IDEs that use in-process debugging typically cannot do this. Or
sometimes they work and sometimes they don't and you just have to cross
yoru fingers and hope. Those debuggers also tend to have nasty problems
with respect to reloading modules consistently when they change. IMO,
your summary is much too shallow to address the real issues that make an
IDE useful for a programmer or not.
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From rulatir at poczta.arena.pl  Fri Aug 24 10:31:11 2001
From: rulatir at poczta.arena.pl (Szczepan Ho³yszewski)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:31:11 GMT
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
Message-ID: <Pyth7.2557$H%.69407@news.chello.at>

I just downloaded Python-2.1.1.exe installer and, guess, I'm getting that
"Corrupt installation detected." box. I've already found out that it has
something to do with administrator privileges on WinNT/2000. But
_I_have_Win95_ so how can I log in with administrator provileges on a system
that doesn't support any privileges at all?

Why does the installer think it is running on WinNT/2000?

How to fix the problem without actually buying and installing WinNT and then
logging in as an administrator?

Szczepan Holyszewski
rulatir at poczta.arena.pl





From paul at boddie.net  Fri Aug 31 11:06:20 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 08:06:20 -0700
Subject: Python Server Pages
References: <3B56E7ED.E4506CBD@wi.mit.edu> <Y2iPO6orqyEt+fDY7mQo6nLbna6n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108310706.c82b223@posting.google.com>

Mark Pawelek <mark at swipe.plc.uk> wrote in message news:<Y2iPO6orqyEt+fDY7mQo6nLbna6n at 4ax.com>...
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:00:13 -0500, Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone know the current state of python server pages?  The last
> >entry on their web site is June 1999.  I remember reading a Dr. Dobb's
> >Journal article at roughly the same time.  So PSP appears to be
> >incredibly stable or abandoned :)
> 
> Was it really such a good idea?

With Webware you can use a presentation system called Python Server
Pages (or PSP for short, but it isn't the same project) which isn't
exclusive to Jython. In fact, there are lots of template systems
available for Webware:

  http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/Templates/

Personally, I'm not entirely enthusiastic about *SP technologies.

Paul


From jessw at loop.com  Fri Aug 17 20:38:27 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:38:27 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
In-Reply-To: <3B7C169E.22502.19E5BF84@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B7D5693.14497.16964E0@localhost>

Dear Pythonics,
	Thank you all very much!  I have been dreding ansking this 
question, becasue it exposed my horrible weakness as a programer. 
(Note:  I do know the above is not true :-) )  All of the usefull and 
interesting responses were very nice.  Some of the most interesting 
points were:
	Alex Martelli mentioned the XP practice of including the customer in the
design team and having them specifiy the "stories" or acceptance 
tests for a program and Kerim Borchaev gave a lot of very usefull 
links..
	
		Thank you,
			Jesse F. Weinstein



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 24 02:14:03 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:14:03 -0700
Subject: where is doctest module
References: <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <9m1ca5$un$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.998524795.6744.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m4rbb$qed$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.998524795.6744.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    >> How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate
>    >> it starting from www.python.org.
>
>    Aahz> the Python Imaging Library comes with a version;
>
>It might be easier to get piecemeal by browsing the CVS source at
>sourceforge:
>
>    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/

True, but that won't be 1.5.2 compatible, which is why I suggested PIL.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Wed Aug 29 16:12:46 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:12:46 -0500
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999033582.32553.python-list@python.org> <NjVi7.185773$g_3.33739543@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <3046523.MGUh0CODmn@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <toqj9ceb3o0l7b@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks for the tip Markus.  I was not aware of this.
Maan

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:3046523.MGUh0CODmn at lunix.schabi.de...
> Hi,
>
> Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> schrub:
>
> > Hidden = '<input type=hidden name=AnyNameHere value='+str(VAR1)+'>'
>
> Yes, that works, but the Solution from Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
>
> >> print '<input type="hidden" name="VAR1" value="%s">' % VAR1
>
> Should be faster, especially when using lots of pluses, as the plus
> operator generates an string at every addition that is just for the GC.
>
> markus
> --
> "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of
> each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty
> bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights
> secure." -- Albert Einstein




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug  7 20:21:13 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:21:13 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
		<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> <mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
> [Just van Rossum]
> 
> > But there has always been a nice symmetry between "if x in y" and
> > "for x in y",
> 
> About that one, it always saddened me a little bit that I may not write:
> 
>         if x in 1, 2, 3:
>             pass
> 
> while I can write:
> 
>         for x in 1, 2, 3:
>             pass

I would never have thought to write either of these.  On the other
hand, if I did write things the second way, I would _expect_ that
the first one would work as well. 

> In the first, I write the parentheses so it gets accepted, but I would
> prefer not using them.  It breaks some of the symmetry, in my opinion :-).

It's not so much that symmetry is missing -- it just doesn't follow
the "rule of least surprise", does it?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From dennis at dennis-voss.de  Sun Aug  5 11:52:49 2001
From: dennis at dennis-voss.de (Dennis Voss)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:52:49 +0200
Subject: How to use python to automate installation of non-python programs?
References: <6b954971.0108011515.355c33a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B6D6BD1.6060505@dennis-voss.de>

Bela Evans wrote:

>Let's say you have to install some program on a number of machines
>(pcs and macs) - msoffice, adobe acrobat reader, norton antivirus,
>etc.  It's easy enough to have a python script start an install
>program, but does python have any interface to allow you to
>automatically run through an install program?
>
>What I'm thinking would be needed is a kind of keyboard and mouse
>entry macro recorder.  For example, on 1st screen of install program,
>press enter, 2nd screen, click on customize button, etc.  The python
>script would need to focus attention on the install program window and
>send keystrokes and mouse clicks to it.  Anyone have experience with
>this?  Any pointers to which modules I should look at?  Or is there a
>better way to run through install programs?
>
>Thanks for any suggestions or ideas on what I should be looking at...
>
Some (if not all) setup programs do support an automatic install (defaults)
with a special command line switch.
This goes for Windows machines. You should also be able to use some
Microsoft thingie. Your task is pretty common among NT Admins.

This situration is different on Macs however. But if I remember that
correctly, you can simply copy the folder !

Dennis



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Aug 24 14:35:27 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 18:35:27 GMT
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
References: <3B86028A.9F5F9967@sgh.com.sg> <9m64ld$mpu$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9m66pf$ji4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com>:
| YMK wrote:
|> If I know the "Record Separator" of a flat file, how do I set to read
|> one record at a time ?
|
| Here's something I just tried out using 2.2's 'yield' statement.
| (2.2 is currently in alpha release.)  Warning: this is my first
| generator and I've also not fully tested it.
|
| from __future__ import generators
|
| def SepReader(infile, sep = "\n\n"):
|     text = infile.read(10000)
|     if not text:
|         return
|     while 1:
|         fields = text.split(sep)
|         for field in fields[:-1]:
|             yield field
|         text = fields[-1]
|         new_text = infile.read(10000)
|         if not new_text:
|             yield text
|             break
|         text += new_text
|
| It's used like this
|
| for record in SepReader(open(fortunes), "%\n"):
|     print record

So the generator stuff is just for fun, right?  I mean, this
can just as easily be expressed as a conventional buffer
object, minus the for loop application but I believe possibly
allowing a little more flexibility in other respects.

import sys

class SepFile:
    def __init__(self, infile, sep = "\n\n"):
        self.fp = infile
        self.sep = sep
        self.text = ''
    def readline(self):
        #  This function should eventually return '' on end of file.
        if self.text is None:
            return ''

        while 1:
            #  To include line ending in result, use find() and slice,
            #  instead of split().
            s = self.text.split(self.sep, 1)
            if len(s) > 1:
                ln, self.text = s
                return ln
            else:
                moretext = self.fp.read(10000)
                if not moretext:
                    #  Notice end of file.  Return the unterminated
                    #  data already here.  If that isn't empty, the
                    #  caller will come back for more, so set self.text
                    #  to short circuit the next read.
                    ln = self.text
                    self.text = None
                    return ln
                self.text = self.text + moretext

sf = SepFile(sys.stdin)
while 1:
    ln = sf.readline()
    if not ln:
        break
    print 'line:', repr(ln)

| If you want something that's really high speed, but uses the
| mxTextTools C extension, you can try my Martel parser, which
| is part of biopython.org.  The specific record readers are in
| http://cvs.biopython.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/biopython/Martel/Record
| Reader.py?cvsroot=biopython

mxTextTools rules.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Mon Aug 27 11:01:01 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:01:01 GMT
Subject: MS Windows COM error - access denied
References: <3B8A5D9B.D4F80131@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <3b8a607b.7966140@news.t-online.de>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:47:55 -0600, "jim.vickroy"
<jim.vickroy at noaa.gov> wrote:

>
>the following exception is raised:
>
>        com_error: (-2147024891, 'Access is denied.', None, None)
>
>Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
Have you started dcomcnfg.exe (its part of W2K) and played with the
security settings ? Like default access permissions and such.


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 24 12:06:03 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:06:03 +0200
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
References: <Pyth7.2557$H%.69407@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <9m5tmq$2oda$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Nah !

Don't think so,

I installed Python 2.1.1 on a Win2k box and a Win98 box. Both installed and
work without any problem.

You need to be administrator to install on Win2K or Win NT.

The Python installer detects automatically the system (win9x serie or win NT
serie) and checks wether you're administrator or not in the second case
only.

I think your Python-2.1.1.exe is corrupted. Download it again.

--Gillou

"Szczepan Ho?yszewski" <rulatir at poczta.arena.pl> a ?crit dans le message
news: Pyth7.2557$H%.69407 at news.chello.at...
> I just downloaded Python-2.1.1.exe installer and, guess, I'm getting that
> "Corrupt installation detected." box. I've already found out that it has
> something to do with administrator privileges on WinNT/2000. But
> _I_have_Win95_ so how can I log in with administrator provileges on a
system
> that doesn't support any privileges at all?
>
> Why does the installer think it is running on WinNT/2000?
>
> How to fix the problem without actually buying and installing WinNT and
then
> logging in as an administrator?
>
> Szczepan Holyszewski
> rulatir at poczta.arena.pl
>
>
>




From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Aug 20 08:47:46 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:47:46 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1.1 on old Debian box with Linux kernel 2.0.39
Message-ID: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com>

HI!

I have troubles installing Python 2.1.1 on an old Debian box with
Linux kernel 2.0.39. The kernel sources are available. Building the
socket module fails with error message:

/tmp/W3311/Python-2.1.1/Modules/socketmodule.c:178:
netpacket/packet.h: No such file or directory

Ciao, Michael.


From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 25 14:27:06 2001
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:27:06 -0700
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com>

Please excuse me if this is a dumb comment that has been made before. 

Recently, I was rather surprised by the following behavior:

Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> lst = [1,2,3]
>>> sublst = [1,2]
>>> sublst in lst
0

I am sure there's a good reason why it would be considered unpythonic
for the above to return 1... I just can't get my puny brain to figure
it out right now.
I guess a function such as issublist(sublst, lst) would be more
appropriate:

>>> def issublist(sublst, lst):
	for item in sublst:
		if item not in lst: return 0
	return 1

>>> issublist([1,2], [1,2,3])
1
>>> issublist([1,4], [1,2,3])
0


regards,


Sandy


From bsb at winnegan.de  Tue Aug 21 04:27:40 2001
From: bsb at winnegan.de (Siggy Brentrup)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:27:40 +0200
Subject: strange error with python and mailman
In-Reply-To: <3B822F0C.8E0E5F24@waag.org>
References: <3B822F0C.8E0E5F24@waag.org>
Message-ID: <87d75p95s3.fsf@winnegan.de>

henk <henk at waag.org> writes:

> Hi all,
> 
> i'm getting a strange error with mailman and python since a couple of
> days. Stupid thing is that i cannot reproduce it on other boxes with the
> same setup. The box is a straith debian/woody install with python-base
> 1.5.2-16, mailman 2.0.6-1, libc6 2.2.3-9.
> 
> I'm not a programmer but hope somebody can help me....

Did you report this bug to the Debian Bug Tracking System?
This is most easily done using reportbug. 

You might need to

  apt-get install reportbug 

beforehand.

Regards
  Siggy

-- 
Siggy Brentrup - bsb at winnegan.de - http://oss.winnegan.de/
****** ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam *******



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  2 09:35:38 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:35:38 -0400
Subject: grok.py (module I found)
References: <9k9ftb$hdk$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <3B68E020.95AD2935@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <aDca7.21951$WD1.1383717@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B68E020.95AD2935 at engcorp.com...
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
> >
> > I've found this module somewhere linked from the Vaults of Parnassus,
> > but then my browser crashed and I can't find the link anymore. Did it
> > disappear from the vaults? The web page had a bunch of other interesting
> > modules I wanted to check out. The URL had /psu at the end, I believe,
but
> > it's not in my browser history, probably due to the crash.. The code
> > seems to be something for Python 3k.
>
> > def grok(text):
> >     # remember the time when we called this function
> >     call_time = time.time()
> >
> [...]
> >     # otherwise, we want to time travel back to the moment in time
> >     # just before (one second) we called the function, and try again
> >     return timetravel.apply_at_time(grok, [text], {}, call_time - 1)
>
> Ha!  More evidence that Python is one of the most optimizable
> languages ever.  Eventually we'll be able to use this construct
> to execute many operations instantly, rather than just in
> parallel, resulting in O(n/n) behavior for all NP-complete
> algorithms (and O(n/inf) for the incomplete ones).
>
> And to think that this all began with the recent experiments
> into Python-based quantum computing that the PSU h

Is it true the Big Bang actually just represented the first freeing of the
global interpreter lock?
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 07:35:31 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:35:31 +0200
Subject: confused about adding elements to a list with list.append(otherlist)
References: <8e84aae6.0108130241.2163205c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l8ea30k0n@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Tist Verdonck" <tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:8e84aae6.0108130241.2163205c at posting.google.com...
> I got this problem where I have an empty list and I want to fill it up
> with other lists using a for-iteration:
>
> list = []
> data = ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh']
> z = len(data)
> for x in range(z):
>     list.append(data)
>     data.append('IJ')
>
> my goal was to get the follwing value for list:
> [['ab','cd','de','ef','gh'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ'],

So, you want list (bad name, as it's the name of a builtin, but OK) to
contain,
not data itself, but rather "snapshots", i.e., COPIES, of what data held at
the
time it was appended, right?

So, just ask explicitly for a copy when you DO want a copy:
NOT
    list.append(data)    # this appends data itself
BUT
    list.append(data[:]) # this appends a COPY of data

The ...[:] full-list-slice makes a copy, but a more general approach would
be
to
    import copy
and then ask for
    list.append(copy.copy(data))
This makes it clearer that a copy is being requested, and therefore seems
more readable and advisable.  But it's up to you, of course.


Alex





From dswegen at allstor-sw.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 10:28:05 2001
From: dswegen at allstor-sw.co.uk (Dave Swegen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:28:05 +0100
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
Message-ID: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon>

First of all this is not intended as flame-baiting or trolling. I'm
genuinly curious about this one weird feature.

I've recently started looking at python, as we are about to implement a
whole new intranet, and it would seem that basically all web tools that
are of interest (zope, mason etc) are either perl or python based. 

Now, I've done a bit of perl coding, and it does have some neat
features. However, I feel that there are far too many cases where making
hard-to-read code is too easy, or things feel tacked on (OOP, for
instance). That is why I really like what I've seen of Python so far.

However, I (and others here at work) do have some real concerns about
the indentation feature. Basically we are quite worried about subtle
but nasty bugs creeping in. Take the following code for instance:

for i in [1234]:
	print i
	print "hello"

Perfectly fine, valid code. But one indentation step wrong, and you end
up with perfectly fine, valid code that does something else, ie

for i in [1234]:
	print i
print hello

I imagine that these sort of problems might not only appear due to
incorrect coding, but also things such as broken mailers, applying
patches from people using different indent levels etc

So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?

Any points of view much appreciated

Cheers
	Dave



From achim.domma at syynx.de  Tue Aug 21 08:03:05 2001
From: achim.domma at syynx.de (Achim Domma)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:03:05 +0200
Subject: default values with boos
Message-ID: <9ltikm$9n6$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I use boost to write extension classes for python. Can somebody tell me how
to export functions with default values ?

greetings
Achim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 04:44:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:44:59 +0200
Subject: Interactive bourne shell in py?
References: <mailman.997412776.22634.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l070101r68@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Dave Cinege" <dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997412776.22634.python-list at python.org...
> Anyone know of any interactive shell wrappers for python that could
> handle the basic needs of a login shell,
>
> IE
> explict command execution
> basic file descriptor redirection
> variable substitution
>
> Something bourne scripting compatible maybe?
> IE It could handle this as input
>
> var='hello';echo $var | sed s/h/H/ > hi.txt &

Ian Maurer's page, http://hammer.prohosting.com/~pyguy/,
points to his "Python Enhanced DOS Command Prompt", which
is more similar to command.com but you can surely hack into
similarity with sh instead.


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 12:09:03 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:09:03 -0400
Subject: PythonWin/Visual SourceSafe Integration
Message-ID: <8q8j7.70054$54.3713716@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

PythonWin seems to have forgotten about VSS on my Windoze machine.

Until yesterday (which is to say, it worked fine the last time I tried
it...) I could open a source file in PythonWin, and it would detect an
appropriate mssccprj.scc file and check files out on demand. Now I just see
a status message telling me:

    Document is read-only, and no source-control system is configured

As far as I know I haven't made any chages to PythonWin. The problem appears
to be that

     GetEditorOption("Source Control Module", "")

in document.py is no longer returning an importable module name, but I might
be off-track here.

Can someone point me in the right direction and save me some debugging time?

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/






From new_name at mit.edu  Fri Aug  3 17:33:26 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 17:33:26 -0400
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <etd3d78exgb.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <jty9p0nc6u.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <etdwv4kde1k.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Oh, yeah, they have a Windows version, as well, but it seems like it
takes a little effort to get it going, at the moment.  Yeah, Norn is
what you're really looking for, probably.

Alex.


From andym at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug 15 12:22:35 2001
From: andym at ActiveState.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:22:35 +0000
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com> <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <3B7A6B92.B18EEE3E@engcorp.com> <etdsnet4ap0.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7AA1CB.9040704@activestate.com>

Just check the headers, this means you dont get the document, saving 
bandwith and solving the 404 file problem (assuming the set the right 
headers)

from httplib import HTTP
from urlparse import urlparse

def checkURL(url):
     p = urlparse(url)
     h = HTTP(p[1])
     h.putrequest('HEAD', p[2])
     h.endheaders()
     if h.getreply()[0] == 200: return 1
     else: return 0

if __name__ == '__main__':
     assert checkURL('http://slashdot.org')
     assert not checkURL('http://slashdot.org/notadirectory')

-- 
   Andy McKay




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 14 16:10:23 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:10:23 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org> <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com> <3B797C71.A8FD3B80@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <fj0cl9.ho2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:30:57 -0400, Colin J. Williams <cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:
><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
><html>
>[...]

Please don't do that in Newsgroups.

To switch Netscape Messenger to plain text, go to:

Edit/Preferences/Mail and Newsgroups/Formatting and select "Convert the message
into plain text".

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 17:56:53 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:56:53 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B8551CC.846C141B@home.net> <mailman.998596476.29968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x7kvu1lui.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> One thing that everyone needs to remember is that optimizing any language is
> extremely hard.  Sprinkling a few static type declarations into your Python
> code isn't going to help much either.  Tim Peters spent a huge chunk of his
> professional career as a compiler/optimization expert.  He's been working in
> and around Python for about 10 years now, but he hasn't produced an
> optimizing compiler for Python yet.  (I keep waiting...)  I think there are
> (at least) two reasons: it's hard, and it's time-consuming.  Perhaps if we
> all scraped together our nickels and dimes and sent them to PythonLabs
> they'd be able to hire another person to do Tim's current job so he could
> spend the next year on such a project.

I wonder if it would be feasible to convert a Python syntax tree to a
Scheme S-expression, and then run the result through an existing
Scheme compiler like Orbit, or maybe a Lisp compiler like AKCL.


>     Chris> I had high hopes for the Py2C project, it seems like it had a LOT
>     Chris> of potential for allowing this, but it seems to be stalled out
> 
> There is a fundamental problem with Py2C: In many cases it gets you about a
> 2X speedup but generates huge object files.  It more-or-less unrolls the
> interpreter's main loop.  Also, since it operates at compile-time it can't
> tell what functions should be converted to C and what ones aren't worth the
> effort.  A runtime-based system could observe what functions are consuming
> the bulk of the time and just translate them.

KCL/AKCL compiles Lisp to C code in a pretty natural way.  It might be
a more reasonable approach.


From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  9 23:24:37 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 23:24:37 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a> <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn9n34ea.1lk.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <iqk6ntk4lh69ve37272u3rck96bp809mgm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <etdg0b0fvgq.fsf@w20-575-8.mit.edu>

Is there a python mode for ed? :)

Alex.


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Aug 12 01:11:03 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:11:03 GMT
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com>
Message-ID: <Hdod7.27408$c8.8315711@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"wim delvaux" <wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com> wrote in message
news:3B75D4D4.61B32D80 at adaptiveplanet.com...
> Hi all,
>
> just looking at python and wondering if I could integrate it.
>
> While thinking I was wondering if one could determine the type of a
> PyObject
>
> Example : calling from python
>
> Mod.Function( 1234 )
> Mod.Function( "string" );
>
> So Function should be callable with 2 different types (kind of
> overloading)
>
> in C  (Making abstraction of a lot of other stuff )
>
> Mod_Function( PyObject *self, PyObject *args )  {
>
>           PyObject * FirstArg;
>
>            if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "o", &FirstArg ))
>                return NULL;
>
>           /* And then something like */
>
>           if( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == String ) {
>               char * String;
>               PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "s", &String );
>           } else if ( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == Integer ) {
>               long IVal;
>               PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "i", &IVal);
>           } else {
>               return NULL;
>           }
> }
>
> What would be the correct Python Library code to implement the above
> pseudo code

One approach would be the obvious:

Mod_Function( PyObject *self, PyObject *args )  {
  char * String;
  long IVal;
  if (PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "s", &String )) {
    /* do something with String */
  } else if (PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "i", &IVal)) {
    /* do something with IVal */
  } else {
    return NULL;
  }
}


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From gerhard.voelkl at rbo.de  Mon Aug 27 03:07:15 2001
From: gerhard.voelkl at rbo.de (G. Völkl)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:07:15 +0200
Subject: How to access DBASE-Files?
Message-ID: <9mcrqb$9u3$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi everybody!

I have to read und write DBASE-Files, but don't want to use ODBC ( error by
writing).
How is it possible?

Thanks
Best Regards
            Gerhard




From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 27 14:01:55 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:01:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <1bvdm9.nn2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108272152290.17984-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Gerhard [iso-8859-1] H?ring wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:08:59 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am trying to compile Python 2.1.1 on my Linux RedHat 6.2
>>system and am getting
>>
>># rpm -bb python-2.1.spec
>>error: failed build dependencies:
>>        expat-devel >= 1.1-3tummy is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
>>        db1-devel   is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
>>
>>While I have even two versions of expat:
>>
>># rpm -qa | grep expat
>>expat-1.1-1
>>expat-1.1-3tummy
>>
>>The question is, where can I find appropriate expat-devel
>>rpm? (expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm doesn't produce one, as
>>expected, and rpmfind warns that expat tummy RPMs "doesnt export
>>valid resources list")
>
>*If* I have installed all the necessary files I just use the --nodeps and even
>--force options. This may sound like a hack (because it is, hehe), but the only
>alternative is adjusting the .SPEC for my distribution (SuSE), which I've grown
>somewhat tired of.

I remember once I made localperl and localpython RPMS which contained
/usr/local/perl and /usr/local/python ONLY to satisfy some dependencies
of #!-lines in scripts.

I am not lame and RPM is not magic. I susally make my own RPMs myself.
The point was that such mainstream application as Python should
have more flexible RPMs, probably, autogenerated in source tree.
(from setup.py). I will try Skip's patch first.

It's a matter of going smooth from the start. Linux folks are accustomed
to tweaking things, but Python rpms are expected to be of quality and be
usable even on RH 5.2 systems!

The third problem with compiling Python 2.1.1 was with _socket not
compiling due to evp.h of openssl tried to include idea.h. I just put
#undef NO_IDEA at the beginning of that file to workaround.

Still, these three problems (expat, db1, idea.h) precluded me from running
Python 2.1.1 just after making i386.rpm from src.rpm and installing it.
So, I voiced my question here.

>Gerhard

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 27, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Error reading FAT record: Try the SKINNY one? (Y/N)" _/




From EvanJ at eyron.com  Tue Aug 14 05:11:15 2001
From: EvanJ at eyron.com (Evan Jones)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:11:15 +0200
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
Message-ID: <01Aug14.111521idt.115201@wall.eyron.com>

I would agree that __init__ is a 'constructor'.

In Java, for example, by the time 'constructor' code is called the instance
has also already been created (hence the availability of  'this' in the
constructor code) and Java classes need not define constructors, still
everyone refers to Java constructors as constructors...

Uru
Evan


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Roman Suzi [SMTP:rnd at onego.ru]
> Sent:	? 13 ?????? 2001 23:03
> To:	Kirby Urner
> Cc:	python-list at python.org
> Subject:	Re: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
> 
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Kirby Urner wrote:
> 
> >
> >I notice the author of the Dive Into Python tutorial cautions
> >that __init__ is not trully a class constructor, as by the time
> >it's invoked, an instance already exists (hence the argument
> >'self', hence the fact that classes don't need an __init__
> >method).
> 
> It is constructor:
> 
> \begin{methoddesc}[object]{__init__}{self\optional{, args...}}
> Called when the instance is created.  The arguments are those passed
> to the class constructor expression.  If a base class has an
> \method{__init__()} method the derived class's \method{__init__()} method
> must
> explicitly call it to ensure proper initialization of the base class
> part of the instance, e.g., \samp{BaseClass.__init__(\var{self},
> [\var{args}...])}.
> \indexii{class}{constructor}
> 
> If I understood recent developments of Python, there will soon one more
> constructor: __new__ to give raw instance (whatever that means).
> 
> I am not sure if "constructor" is a strictly defined term, though.
> It's some routine which constructs object of a class.
> __new__ do it. So continues __init__. They are for different
> construction stages.
> 
> Anybody?
> 
> >I'm wondering if it's therefore considered faux pax to refer to
> >the constructor of a Python user-defined class, meaning __init__,
> >or if there's some tacit liberalizing of "constructor" (it's meaning)
> >going on, such that this usage is acceptable.
> 
> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
> -- 
> _/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
> _/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
> _/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 13:03:05 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:03:05 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com>

>Since I can write more powerful programs in smaller, more readable 
>chunks, I think I write less buggy code. If we have to reduce the 
>simplicity/expressiveness of the language in order to add type-checking, 
>then I think the tradeoff is not worth it.

I emphatically agree. Syntactic type declaration is considerably out of
place with Python.

Although I was thinking about about something which might be useful.
What if Python were to support a type consistency check on containers?

>>> mylist = [1,2,"alpha"]!
Type Consistency Error:
>>>

Note the exclamation point.

C//



From revyakag at umdnj.edu  Fri Aug  3 02:38:40 2001
From: revyakag at umdnj.edu (Andrey Revyakin)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:38:40 -0400
Subject: MySQL module
Message-ID: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu>

...  I know it exists, but where can I get it? Please help!

Andrey.



From k98jh01 at kzoo.edu  Mon Aug 20 22:37:25 2001
From: k98jh01 at kzoo.edu (Bignose3)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 19:37:25 -0700
Subject: simple graphics lib
Message-ID: <b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065@posting.google.com>

I am a student learning python on my own, coming from a C++ backgroud.
 I am working on a simple project, a simulation of fish, as a way to
gain experience using python.  I am looking for a simple graphics lib
that will allow me to display objects- like circles or squares to
represent the objects I am coding.  Is anyone aware of a lib that will
allow me to do this.  When learning C++ I used the CMU Graphics Lib
which worked great.  Let me know if anyone has any ideas.

Thank You
Joe


From akaspick at sympatico.ca  Sat Aug  4 12:35:46 2001
From: akaspick at sympatico.ca (Andrew)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:35:46 -0400
Subject: Using TKINTER
References: <9jjehn$9mb$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>
Message-ID: <kl0b7.74594$Q13.4965328@news20.bellglobal.com>

Have you done a root.mainloop() in your code?


"SENEQUIER" <francois.senequier at voila.fr> wrote in message
news:9jjehn$9mb$1 at s1.read.news.oleane.net...
> Hi,
>
> I simply open a window using the TKINTER root widget.
> I know how to put a button in the window in order to close the window but
I
> don't know how
> to close the window when the exit button of the bar menu (X) is clicked ?
>
> Someone could help me ?
>
> Thanks
>
>




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Aug 23 19:19:25 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 02:19:25 +0300
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <kuitfe9xfm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <7xbsl7a167.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin
<phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> writes:

| These days, a typical workstation is a 1 Ghz Athlon with
| 50 nsec memory access time.  So today's CPU is > 100x faster (more
| parallelism in addition to higher frequency) but memory is only
| slightly faster.  So the cycle cost of a cache miss has gone up
| tremendously--you can execute 50 or more instructions in the time it
| takes to read something from DRAM on a cache miss.  This -has- to have
| some effect on the cost of memory fragmentation.

on the other hand it is also worth keeping in mind that back then
there were no caches in cpus, whereas todays cpu caches as big as main
memories were then (and see very good hit rates).

  -- erno


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 11:28:02 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:28:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should apply to *nix, too)
References: <3b8c84e1.766674781@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Xns910CA7E56BFB9michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) wrote in 
news:3b8c84e1.766674781 at news.isar.de:

> The BaseHTTPServer is derived from SocketServer.TCPServer.
> This class serves up data using the handle_request() member function.
> It looks like this (comments added by me):
>     
> -----------------------
> def handle_request(self):
>     try:
>         request, client_address = self.get_request()
>     except socket.error:
>         return
>     if self.verify_request(request, client_address):
>         try:
>             # this will start a new thread
>             self.process_request(request, client_address)
>         except:
>             self.handle_error(request, client_address)
>     # this will close the socket still in use by the new thread
>     self.close_request(request)
> -----------------------
> The ThreadingTCPServer, which can be mixed in at a higher point in the
> hierarchy, overloads self.process_request() to startup a new thread
> for that request. However, once the thread has started, if the thread
> running self.handle_request() gets the CPU before the other thread has
> finished reading from the request, it will close the request, even
> while a thread serving the request is running in the background.
> And, self.close_request() closes the socket, so the error message
> about _sock being a number is completely explainable. 
> 
> So I don't think just adding ThreadingTCPServer could've worked from
> the start; and the same problem could possibly happen on the *nix
> implementation of ThreadingTCPServer, too.
> 
> Solution: 
> 
> 1) the derived TCPServer has to implement close_request(self) as a
> stub function
> 2) the request class has to implement handle() and at the end of the
> function, close the socket.
> 

This is very timely for me, many thanks for the diagnosis.  I'm not sure I 
agree with your solution, though.  Surely all of the processing after the 
request has been received should be split off into another thread?

Here's my solution:

class ThreadedHTTPServer(BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):

    thread_pool = ThreadPool.ThreadPool(5, onThreadStartup)

    # We override handle_request so that all of the processing for one
    # request can be done in a separate thread.
    #     Unfortunately, we can't use the clever ThreadingMixIn technique, 
    # because the implementation of SocketServer.BaseServer is broken.  In
    # particular, close_request() can't be called until the spawned thread
    # has completed processing!

    def handle_request(self):
        # This bit stolen wholesale from SocketServer
        try:
            request, client_address = self.get_request()
        except socket.error:
            return

        # We do all the rest in its own thread
        thread = threading.Thread(
            target=self.handle_request_body, 
            args=(request, client_address))
        thread.start()


    # This part of the processing is run in its own thread
    def handle_request_body(self, request, client_address):
        # Again, this bit's thieved from SocketServer
        if self.verify_request(request, client_address):
            try:
                self.process_request(request, client_address)
            except:
                self.handle_error(request, client_address)
        self.close_request(request)



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 08:31:40 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:31:40 -0400
Subject: Hacking in python
References: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com> <3B7B518D.20172F7C@engcorp.com> <5870735.CxCBeP46Va@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B7BBD2C.7E83B4CF@engcorp.com>

Markus Schaber wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> schrub:
> 
> >> Does any 1 know any thing about hacking in python
> >
> > There are no Python hackers (using your definition) in
> > this newsgroup.  I guess you'll have to look elsewhere.
> 
> Assuming "in" means "using python", and "hacking" means "doing illegal
> things" (which is not the original and intended meaning of this term)
> then I hope there are none.

Those were the OP's definitions, and I agree with you.
I was trying gently to dissuade him from bothering...
we don't need that kind of participation "in Python". :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From wware at world.std.com  Thu Aug 23 10:19:19 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:19:19 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <GIIyG7.3rD@world.std.com>

gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> I'm not sure the the :][: operator would be appropriate here, but maybe 
> the variation v[:5 ][ -2:] could be made to work. [Talk of statring a PEP]

This can be made to work in Python 1.5.2:

>>> v = "abcdefgh"
>>> print v[:5 ][ -2:]
de

To start a PEP for this change, you'll need to borrow Guido's time machine.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 10:26:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:26:04 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <9kgnqa22p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>, <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk> <E15T1cn-0006N6-00@darjeeling>
Message-ID: <021901c11cf1$6a5d9ae0$0300a8c0@arthur>

"Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> writes:
    ...
> > restrictions -- look at the complications such as StringIO vs cStringIO
> > and pickle vs cPickle that are forced by the restriction "thou shalt
> > not subclass a c-coded type":-).
> 
> How many people actually need to subclass StringIO?

Hard to get statistics, of course.  I've never done it except to
check that I could:-).

> I think the real reason StringIO stayed is "if you have trouble porting
> the C code, here's some Python instead"

If that were all, then there would be no reason to deploy and
document both modules separately on each installation; the
setup would choose the native module if it could, the pure
Python one if the native one wasn't available.  A concept that
should, I suspect, used more widely in the Python standard
libraries to promote cross-platform portability (e.g., strptime
in module time should default to a pure-Python implementation
rather than just not being there if the platform's C library does
not supply it...).

> pickle is a bit more likely to be subclassed, but not much more.

That's quite a different issue, what with persistent_id and friends!

It seems to me that the customization allowed by subclassing IS
crucial to using pickle for full-fledged persistence, in a way that
subclassing StringIO just isn't for uses of StringIO that I can
think of (indeed there's no docs, I believe, for what methods of
StringIO call self.someothermethod, so that subclassing StringIO
effectively seems to require studying sources and risking one's
code breaking on implementation upgrades).

> Again, I think the argument is that as long as we can, we want Python
> code to do the same thing for all the good reasons you know...

A very good idea (and maybe we should have more of that -- a
"Python fallback" for native-code stuff, slower but didactically
useful, sure-to-be-portable, etc etc) but not one that justifies
dual-modules, one in Python and one in C.  The "official" reason
stated in the docs for such dual-module cases (one for speed,
one for subclassing) seems more convincing to me (particularly
when such subclassing is a pressing need, as for pickle).


Alex



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Aug 12 17:19:09 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 00:19:09 +0300
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kulmkpasdu.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list at python.org>, Oktay
Safak <oktay_safak at yahoo.com> writes:

| Hi everyboby,

| >>> a
| {'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
| >>> for x in a.keys():
| 	if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
| 	else: print x, a[x]

| yas23
| ad'veli'
| soyad'guzel'
| >>> a
| {'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
| >>> for x in a.keys():
| 	if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
| 	else: print x+a[x]
| yas23
| ad'veli'
| soyad'guzel'

type() does not return a string - it returns a type object.
so the right way to check for a string is:

if type(thingy) == types.StringType
or
if type(thingy) == type('')

also you probably want to use str() instead of repr().

  -- erno


From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Tue Aug 14 08:27:51 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:27:51 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <000b01c124bc$8973be00$a9e1fea9@carol>

Tim writes -

>I'm afraid it's too late <0.5 wink>.  In response to a msg where I urged
you
>repeatedly to read the darn PEP, and spelled out what a small role Alice
and
>VPython have played in all this (perhaps seminal, perhaps not, but a drop
in
>the bucket regardless), it's still the only thing you talk about.

I've read the darn Pep - all versions, and followed the discussions closely.

Guido, after misdirecting the discussion by implying he was going
to pass on the PEP due to the code breakage issue, announces he is sending
out a patch previewing the new division semantics to the desperately
needy VPython folks - PEP accepted. At the time, about all the PEP said was
that the division semantics of Python was a major stumbling block for
the newbie.  Guido responded to one of my own early posts by throwing
the VPython experience up as a proof of the significance of the issue.
Bruce Sherwood's report to him on the VPython's students experience
was quoted at length.

The obvious line here -

You can rewrite the PEP, but not the history.

The only significant information that has been revealed in this
exchange is again no particular surprise to me.  You linked a few
posts ago to a long Bruce Sherwood post to Python-Dev about the
significance of the div issue for his use of Python in his physics
class.  The post was *before* he had used it in the classroom.
He had pre-determined it as a problem - not experienced it
as a problem.  At a point where I believe it is accurate to
say that he himself had little actual experience with Python at
all.

Perhaps that might count a little against the significance of
his reports from the classroom.

But I'm not the scientist, of course.

ART




From karthikg at aztec.soft.net  Tue Aug 21 09:51:40 2001
From: karthikg at aztec.soft.net (Karthik Gurumurthy)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:21:40 +0530
Subject: reducing if statements and error handling
In-Reply-To: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJNMDEKBIBCMCNMBDIEJCCCAA.karthikg@aztec.soft.net>

i was just wondering, if the purpose of the method is just to check wether
it is a number or not
it s'd either return a true / false ( +ve number / -ve number)
It s'd not throw an exception if it does'nt find it to be a number.
I feel this is not an "exceptional" situation at all for this method.

just my thoughts.
karthik.

>>>

Another easy newbie question here...  Suppose I have a method that
accepts a string (called 'value') as an argument.  I want the method
to check to see if the contents of the string is all numbers.  Here's
my logic:

def checkvalue(value):
   if value.isdigit():
        print 'success: ' + value + ' is a valid entry'
        return 1
   else:
        print 'error: ' + value + ' is NOT a valid entry'
        return -1

Questions:
1) can I reduce this "if" logic down to one statement, perhaps using
lambdas?
2) is there a recommended approach for throwing errors?  In this case,
I'd want to throw an error if the text is not a number and stop
processing.  Can I define a custom exception to do that?  Should I
catch the error in the logic that called the method and throw the
exception there if the method returns a "-1", or should I throw the
exception here?




From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 21:19:10 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:19:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Writeing new files
In-Reply-To: <b5f84cf8.0108311646.1ddf1f98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108312108420.4004-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 31 Aug 2001, eber kain wrote:

> you lost me, whats dir() do, and how do i use it.

dir() returns the attributes (usually methods) attached to an object. For
example (under Python 2.1.1):

---
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__']
>>> dir('')
['capitalize', 'center', 'count', 'encode', 'endswith', 'expandtabs', 'find',
'index', 'isalnum', 'isalpha', 'isdigit', 'islower', 'isspace', 'istitle',
'isupper', 'join', 'ljust', 'lower', 'lstrip', 'replace', 'rfind', 'rindex',
'rjust', 'rstrip', 'split', 'splitlines', 'startswith', 'strip', 'swapcase',
'title', 'translate', 'upper']
>>> dir([])
['append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse',
'sort']
>>> import os
>>> dir(os)
['F_OK', 'NGROUPS_MAX', 'O_APPEND', 'O_CREAT', 'O_DSYNC', 'O_EXCL',
'O_NDELAY', 'O_NOCTTY', 'O_NONBLOCK', 'O_RDONLY', 'O_RDWR', 'O_RSYNC',
'O_SYNC', 'O_TRUNC', 'O_WRONLY', 'P_NOWAIT', 'P_NOWAITO', 'P_WAIT', 'R_OK',
'TMP_MAX', 'UserDict', 'WEXITSTATUS', 'WIFEXITED', 'WIFSIGNALED',
'WIFSTOPPED', 'WNOHANG', 'WSTOPSIG', 'WTERMSIG', 'W_OK', 'X_OK', '_Environ',
'__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '_execvpe',
'_exists', '_exit', '_get_exports_list', '_notfound', '_spawnvef', 'abort',
'access', 'altsep', 'chdir', 'chmod', 'chown', 'close', 'confstr',
'confstr_names', 'ctermid', 'curdir', 'defpath', 'dup', 'dup2', 'environ',
'error', 'execl', 'execle', 'execlp', 'execlpe', 'execv', 'execve', 'execvp',
'execvpe', 'fdatasync', 'fdopen', 'fork', 'forkpty', 'fpathconf', 'fstat',
'fstatvfs', 'fsync', 'ftruncate', 'getcwd', 'getegid', 'getenv', 'geteuid',
'getgid', 'getgroups', 'getlogin', 'getpgrp', 'getpid', 'getppid', 'getuid',
'isatty', 'kill', 'linesep', 'link', 'listdir', 'lseek', 'lstat', 'makedirs',
'mkdir', 'mkfifo', 'name', 'nice', 'open', 'openpty', 'pardir', 'path',
'pathconf', 'pathconf_names', 'pathsep', 'pipe', 'popen', 'popen2', 'popen3',
'popen4', 'putenv', 'read', 'readlink', 'remove', 'removedirs', 'rename',
'renames', 'rmdir', 'sep', 'setegid', 'seteuid', 'setgid', 'setpgid',
'setpgrp', 'setregid', 'setreuid', 'setsid', 'setuid', 'spawnl', 'spawnle',
'spawnlp', 'spawnlpe', 'spawnv', 'spawnve', 'spawnvp', 'spawnvpe', 'stat',
'statvfs', 'strerror', 'symlink', 'sys', 'sysconf', 'sysconf_names', 'system',
'tcgetpgrp', 'tcsetpgrp', 'tempnam', 'times', 'tmpfile', 'tmpnam', 'ttyname',
'umask', 'uname', 'unlink', 'utime', 'wait', 'waitpid', 'write']
>>>
---

So using it allows you to see what the object supports via <obj>.<method>.

It may be that the object returned by Draw.Create() may provide its name in an
attribute or from a method.

> I should have said earlier, im a C++ person, only started looking into
> Python a few weeks ago.
>
> If i had a choice of something else i wouldnt use python, but its the
> only medium to get the models out of blender.

Heh. I've been programming in Python for two years and I couldn't get Blender
running under either Linux or ME, so I don't think you're doing that badly ;)

> I really have a hard time understanding how the classes in python
> function, and the for statement gives me problems. To be honest i dont
> care for the launguage, if I had looked at it before i started C it
> probably wouldnt look so odd, not even sure if it was around when i
> started in programming.

Just give Python some time, and get the real deal from http://www.python.org/;
you might find that you start to like it.

The for statement takes a sequence of objects (list, tuple, or string) or an
object generator (e.g., xrange(), inputfile.readlines()) and replaces the
variable with the objects one at a time:

---
>>> for a in [1, 2, 3]:
...   print a
...
1
2
3
>>>
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net  Fri Aug 24 07:21:22 2001
From: tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:21:22 +0200
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998622877.14447.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ibd5m9.eiu.ln@utolot.toppoint.de>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> still-waiting-for-bubblesort's-rehabilitation-ly y'rs  - tim

Is this pessimism or optimism? :-)

Marc


From guido at python.org  Wed Aug 29 23:20:54 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:20:54 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cp3d6ap71x.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin) writes:

> So .. do types support multiple inheritance? I would assume
> they don't, i.e., that the following generates an error:
> 
>     class Mosaic(dictionary, int):
>         pass
> 
> After all, a mosaic can't have two types of default attribute
> (value). But then, what happens in the next step, when classes
> and types are truly unified? That one has me scratching my 
> head.

Indeed, you can't subclass from multiple built-in types.  But you can
subclass from multiple user-defined classes that derive from the same
built-in type.  E.g. this is fine:

class B(list): pass
class C(list): pass
class D(B, C): pass

The complete rule that explains what combinations are cool is a bit
complex, but a simplified version is easy enough to remember: you can
multiply inherit from user-defined new-style classes as long as they
all derive from the same built-in type, or from object.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From dalke at acm.org  Fri Aug 10 09:38:37 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:38:37 +0100
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B73BAE1.7BA5ADBB@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <9l1gv3$fur$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Joal Heagney wrote:
>Well as a quick test, I went through my entire python1.5 install
>(because it's the oldest python code I've got lying around :) grepping
>for "yield" and only found the following references.

As another quick test, I went to google and searched for
  import yield def

and found (about hit 18)

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Plex/1.1.1/doc/Tutorial.html


]  def indent_to(self, new_level):
]   self.indentation_stack.append(new_level)
]   self.yield('INDENT', '')

[...]

] Calling the yield() method of the Scanner object has the same effect
] as returning a value from the action procedure.

The only other examples I saw in the first 200 hits were
a use of yield for Stackless, and that Java's Thread uses a 'yield'
method, which would be a concern for Jython.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 10 06:01:57 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:01:57 +1000
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "David Smith" <drs at labs.agilent.com> wrote in message
> news:3B72DCBA.C99465BC at labs.agilent.com...
>     ...
> > class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
> > bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
>     ...
> > Is there a way for __copy__ to create a bare object of the same class,
> > which it can proceed to populate?
> 
> Piece of cake:
> 
> class Fleep:
>     def __init__(self, x, y, z):
>         print 'lots',x,'of',y,'work',z
>     def __copy__(self):
>         class Temp: pass
>         newbie = Temp()
>         newbie.__class__=self.__class__
>         print "very little work"
> 
> Alex

And adding onto that an automatic copy of the instance's __dict__ -->

>>> import copy
>>> class Fleep:
...	def __init__(self,x,y,z):
...		print 'lots',x,'of',y,'work',z
...		self.x = x
...		self.y = y
...		self.z = z
...	def __copy__(self):
...		class Temp: pass
...		newbie = Temp()
...		newbie.__class__ = self.__class__
...		newbie.__dict__ = copy.deepcopy(self.__dict__)
...		print "very little work"
...		return newbie

I LOVE this language. Alex, you're empty class trick just made it into
my private python scrap-book.
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From brianmce at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 10 11:23:17 2001
From: brianmce at bigfoot.com (Brian McErlean)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:23:17 -0700
Subject: the usage of pickle
References: <egb7nt4ba7iusumbjsd8thqhd0j943c1qf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0a2f70a.0108100723.7a49c1f5@posting.google.com>

Dino Hsu <dino1_nospam at ms1.hinet.net> wrote in message news:<egb7nt4ba7iusumbjsd8thqhd0j943c1qf at 4ax.com>...
> Dear all,
> 
> When I try pickle.dump(...), it always fails, anyone show me how?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> >>> def f():
>  return '123456'
> >>> f
> <function f at 01215F2C>
> 
> >>> pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#60>", line 1, in ?
>     pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
>   File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 939, in dump
>     Pickler(file, bin).dump(object)
>   File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 104, in __init__
>     self.write = file.write
> AttributeError: write
> 
> Dino


Pickle accepts a file object as its second parameter, 
not a filename - the AttributeError is because python is trying
to find the 'write' method of the string "test.txt"

Try this instead:

>>> file = open("test.txt","w")   # Open for writing
>>> pickle.dump(f,file)
>>> file.close()

You can reload it similarly:

>>> infile = open("test.txt")
>>> obj = pickle.load(infile)
>>> obj()
'123456'

But note : Pickle does not save the bytecode for functions, just 
the name.  If you put a "del f" before the pickle.load() call, then
this will fail. (Try pickle.dumps(f) to see what the data looks
like pickled.)

-- 
Brian McErlean


From david at boddie.net  Fri Aug 24 15:06:57 2001
From: david at boddie.net (David Boddie)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:06:57 -0700
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <4aadab2d22jcg@argonet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <18289ee4.0108241106.73b486e0@posting.google.com>

Mr  J C Greenwood <jcg at argonet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4aadab2d22jcg at argonet.co.uk>...
> In article <89d9e2ac4a%tim at worthy.demon.co.uk>,
>    Tim Howarth <tim at worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>  
> > How big/difficult would it be to port Tk using the toolbox modules ?
> 
> Looking at WIMPY, which is included in the Python Riscos site, there is a
> note that says:
> 
> "This is a Python module which interfaces with the RISC OS wimp." Is this
> the same sort of thing?

I looked at

http://www.bursa.freeuk.com/freeware/

Do you mean the library mentioned on that page? It's quite neat and
small, and appears to support most or all of the features of my
library, plus some that I haven't approached. Some of the techniques
used are similar to those I used, but that's not surprising given the
aims of both libraries.

One of the strengths of Tk is, I believe, the widgets that come with
it.
wimp.py doesn't appear to have any such high level objects as it
stands, so you'd probably have to write some before you could consider
using it in the same way as you would use Tk. The same is true of my
library.

Of course, there may already be some nice widgets for use with wimp.py
that I don't know about. Has anyone done anything extensive with it?

David


From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 21:52:37 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:52:37 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <nGfb7.73145$EP6.17247175@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <kr5rmtsh1gl6api2u3nks4p38q3n9sqsav@4ax.com> <0Pnb7.75011$EP6.17742095@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <kp3umt43fqtb1ua3ngri9aek2g7skg5bf1@4ax.com>

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 03:04:28 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
wrote:

>
>"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:kr5rmtsh1gl6api2u3nks4p38q3n9sqsav at 4ax.com...
>
>> 1 is not equivalent to 1.0
>
>
>Equivalent -  common definition: equal in value, as in: $1 has the
>same value as $1.00.
>Equivalent - technical definition: isomorphic images of each other, as
>in: 1 and 1.0 are matched by the unique isomorphism between integers
>and a subset of the reals.
>
>Terry J. Reedy

To restore the context that Terry snipped to twist my words again...

"""
Mathematicians are quite happy with the concept that working in the
domain of integers is different to working in the domain of reals. It
is not an efficiency consideration, they are fundamentally different
domains. In mathematics, the same notation with the same arguments
gives a different result depending on the context. In Python today, we
denote that context with the type of the arguments. What is the
problem?

1 is not equivalent to 1.0 - the '1 == 1.0' returns a true result only
because types are coerced. '1 is 1' returns true, but '1 is 1.0'
returns false. Neither comparison has anything to do with whether the
mathematical types are the same, but I just wanted to show that the
behaviour of '==' is of no special significance.

1 has the implicit meta-data that the domain is integers. 1.0 has the
implicit meta-data that the domain is reals. Coercion of mixed types
is a convenience which has nothing to do with this - and the fact that
Python is dynamically typed has nothing to do with it either.
"""



From breakfast at 10.am  Tue Aug 21 05:30:47 2001
From: breakfast at 10.am (mallum)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:30:47 +0100
Subject: cross-compiling Python
Message-ID: <20010821103047.A269@10.am>

Hi all;

Im trying to Cross Compile Python 2.1.1 on x86 for ARM Linux linking
against uClibc . I have a working cross compile environment except 
when I run configure in the Python source I get .... 

<snip>

./configure --without-threads --without-wctype-functions --without-cxx
arm-linux

..... 

checking whether gcc accepts -OPT:Olimit=0... configure: error: can
not run test program while cross compiling

</snip>

How can I get the configure to run if it doesn't wanna run the tests
for a cross compile ?

Many thanks

mallum



From ldw at us.ibm.com  Tue Aug 28 17:42:45 2001
From: ldw at us.ibm.com (Larry Whitley)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:42:45 -0500
Subject: Numpy - adding a row to a 3d array
Message-ID: <9mh38l$1098$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>

I'm writing some code where I need to add a row to the end of each plane in
a 3d array.  The new row will end up with all zeros, the data in the old
rows should remain as is.  My first thought was Numpy's resize function but:

>>> ar = arange( 24 )
>>> ar.shape = 2,3,4 # 2 planes, 3 rows, 4 columns
>>> ar
array([[[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
        [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
        [ 8,  9, 10, 11]],
       [[12, 13, 14, 15],
        [16, 17, 18, 19],
        [20, 21, 22, 23]]])
>>> newShape = ar.shape
>>> newShape[1] += 1 # add a row
>>> newShape
2,4,4
>>> ar = resize( ar, newShape )
>>> ar
array([[[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
        [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
        [ 8,  9, 10, 11],
        [12, 13, 14, 15]],
       [[16, 17, 18, 19],
        [20, 21, 22, 23],
        [ 0,  1,  2,  3],
        [ 4,  5,  6,  7]]])

Yuk.  The size is right but the data is in the wrong places.

What I want is:
>>> ar
array([[[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
        [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
        [ 8,  9, 10, 11],
        [ 0,0,0,0]],
       [[12, 13, 14, 15],
        [16, 17, 18, 19],
        [20, 21, 22, 23],
        [0,0,0,0]]])

I understand that I'm not likely to get the zeros assigned in one fell swoop
but I would like the data in the old rows of the original array perserved.
My solution is pretty nasty.  I'm hoping some smart Pythonista can show me
the light, the way, the truth, ... etc.  :-)

    def _addRow(self, ar3 ): # ar3 is a reference
        # adds a row to a 3d array, keeping original data in the right place
        shape = ar3.shape
        # break the 3d array down into a list of 2d arrays and add a row to
each
        ar2List = []
        for i in range( shape[0] ):
            ar2 = ar3[i,:,:].copy() # make a copy of this plane
            newShape = ar2.shape
            newShape[0] += 1
            ar2 = resize( ar2, newShape ) # add a row
            ar2[-1,:] = 0 # zero the new row out
            ar2List.append( ar2 )
        # resize ar3
        shape[1] += 1
        ar3 = resize( ar3, shape ) # add a row, data is hosed
        # now fixup the data from the ar2List
        for i in range( len(ar2List)):
            ar3[i,:,:] = ar2

Larry







From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Fri Aug 10 07:01:30 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:01:30 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <mailman.997287913.11388.python-list@python.org> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081234090.1093-100000@cc489744-a> <slrn9n3ki3.206.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n7gb8.gjv.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Andrei Kulakov <sill at optonline.net> dijo:
> Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote:
[ snippage ]
> > The "Text Editor Support for Python" idea sounds cool, I want anyone
> > that edits Python code to have a resource that will show if there is a
> > Python environment for their editor of choice.  As for the URL for
> > Vim+Python, What I was talking about is builtin if it is Python code.  I
> > am currently working on a Vim script that will do just as much as
> > Emacs's python mode, but where are the specs for it?  I can't parse
> > Emacs Lisp, and I don't use Emacs, so is there a URL for the specs?
> > 
> > Sorry, again!
> 
> If you finish that script, please post it here.. I for one would love to have
> something like that.

Ditto for moi.  =)

-- 
Our existence deforms the universe.
That's responsibility.
    -- Delirium, The Sandman


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug  2 13:25:43 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:25:43 -0700
Subject: defining classes within loops?
References: <roy-10E6A4.08233827072001@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3B698D17.8495C13B@ccvcorp.com>


Roy Smith wrote:

> The documentation for the "continue" statement says:
>
> > continue may only occur syntactically nested in a for or while loop,
> > but not nested in a function or class definition
>
> Just out of curiosity, how many people have ever written a function or
> class definition nested inside a loop?  Seems like sort of a strange thing
> to do, although I suppose it might be useful in some situations.

I don't think the docs are intending to imply anything about defining
functions/classes within a loop.  I think that it is could be paraphrased
as:   "continue must be nested within a block, but that block must be a for or
while loop; the nesting block cannot be a function or class definition."

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Wed Aug 15 20:41:31 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:41:31 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org> <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com> <3B7AB275.56BEFEC3@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <jg5mntgcfm26nmp3tl74uebeh9donf6tb6@4ax.com>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:33:41 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

>> We ...  don't really therefor have a right to dictate its direction.

>Everyone has the right to do whatever *they* want to with Python, except
>that after they do so, Guido has the right to decide whether it can still be
>called Python.

Of course all this is true, and to me: obvious. What I was personally objecting
to was this notion that anyone has the right to _dictate_ what the open source
developers do. If they want that, they can damn well start their _own_ open
source development project. Starting with Python source, if they feel they're
so good they can get their version of a language to a popular level.

C//



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 24 16:32:45 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:32:45 -0400
Subject: Getting rid of deprecationwarnings
References: <3B86376F.4C3C8430@olen.to>
Message-ID: <mPyh7.19018$54.1007822@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Rewrite Gadfly to use re. You would win the undying thakns of many Python
users.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Joonas Paalasmaa" <joonas at olen.to> wrote in message
news:3B86376F.4C3C8430 at olen.to...
> I am using Gadfly with Python 2.1 and because Gadfly uses regex module,
> it warns me every time I use it.
> How can I get rid of that warning?




From stepheng at cae.com  Fri Aug 24 08:15:14 2001
From: stepheng at cae.com (Stephen Gaudet)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:15:14 -0400
Subject: Converting to ASCII
Message-ID: <1C89780C4179D3118C580090277193580FD29685@caemsx01.cae.ca>

Hello,

I'm a new Python user and have a postscript file that I want to convert to
ASCII...does anyone know how to do this?

Thanks in advance

Stephen



From sill at optonline.net  Tue Aug 21 07:16:35 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:16:35 GMT
Subject: New web utility
References: <mailman.998376152.21669.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9o4ghg.3kh.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:59:41 -0700, Victor Black <content-management at high-tech-communcations.com> wrote:
[snip]

Interesting use of psychology in the subject.. "How do you get coders to
read an email? Well, they like web utilities, don't they? If they hear of
a new one, they'll surely flock to it wasting no time."  Mmmm.. web
utilities..

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 20 10:52:27 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:52:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lists into lists
In-Reply-To: <9lr75f$njd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201051080.11734-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Jeff Cohen wrote:

> I'm just learning python, so sorry if this is obvious but I didn't see it in
> the book or a few tutorials I found.
>
> I want to insert a copy of a list into a list like so:
>
> >>x=[1,2,3]
> >>y=[4,5,6]
> >> Magic step goes here
> >>x
> [[4,5,6],1,2,3]
>
> Now, I did this with
>
> >>x.insert(0,y)
>
> However, when I manipulate y, I end up changing x as well.
>
> With
>
> >>x[:0]=y
> >>x
> [4,5,6,1,2,3]
>
> Which isn't exactly it either.
>
> Any help there?

Inserting y into x just inserts a reference to y into x. You need to insert
y[:] into x, which then makes a copy of y.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From danyelf at ics.uci.edu  Wed Aug  1 02:03:43 2001
From: danyelf at ics.uci.edu (Danyel Fisher)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:03:43 -0700
Subject: Memory usage, in droves
References: <9jr62c$16d$1@news.service.uci.edu> <VCf87.34079$EP6.8719749@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <9k85m5$iab$1@news.service.uci.edu>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote in message news:VCf87.34079

> The volume of posts has been much larger (and hotter) than normal in
> the last two weeks.  Could that have accelerated your memory growth? ;-)

It might have contributed. What was really doing it for me--I learned--is
that I am opening an r_exec environment with every message. Apparently, they
weren't getting cleaned up well.

Now I'm sort of curious, though. Is there a way for a program to return some
space to the system? I'm concerned that if I swell to 79% again in the
presence of heavy traffic, all the gc in the world won't shrink me below
that value. Or is this a FAQ somewhere?

Danyel




From guido at python.org  Fri Aug  3 13:00:49 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:00:49 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.996843727.12021.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpd76dxeni.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes:

> try:
>   foo()
> except x in class ZeroDivisionError:
>   bar()

That would be backwards incompatible.  The expression in the except
clause is not an arbitrary Boolean -- it's an exception or a tuple of
exceptions.  If you want to, you can propose a PEP to change this and
provide backwards compatible measures -- but I foresee plenty of
problems (e.g. where is 'x' defined?).  The potential confusion here
seems a job for PyChecker to me.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Aug 21 08:55:37 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 07:55:37 -0500
Subject: boost::python and shared_ptr
References: <1ritfiny0o.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lt61k01h92@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1rg0alk1x2.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

    Alex> What about adding (Python-side only maybe) another
    Alex> 'constructor' (factory, if you will) of SomeClass that's a
    Alex> template?  If your C++ accepts templated constructors,

    Alex> class SomeClass {
    Alex> ...
    Alex>   template <class Derived>
    Alex>   SomeClass(boost::shared_ptr<Derived>) {
    Alex>     // ... whatever ...
    Alex> }

I don't think I fully understand, but I'm intrigued.  Would this be
expected to work w/o the clone method I mentioned in the OP?  If not,
I don't see the advantage of this over what I have currently:

  typedef boost::shared_ptr<Base> PtrBase;
  SomeClass( PtrBase ) 

because the problem doesn't seem to be in the polymorphism ( I can use
my shared_ptr<Derived> in classes expecting a shared_ptr<Base>
polymorphically).  But to be perfectly honest, I don't know exactly
what the problem is.  I am assuming that the code freezing is due to
some reference counting problem that is arising with my use of the
clone method, and that this is causing a pointer to be deleted too
early, but I it could be many things.

But to get back to your example ... it makes me wonder if the example
you gave, or something similar ( a constructor that knows something
about how boost::python represents objects created in python and the
conversion functions to_python from_python ) could be used like

d = Derived()
s = SomeClass( d )  

w/o the use of the clone method.  In a nutshell, how to automagically
create a shared_ptr<Derived> from a Derived object constructed in
python.  Is your example expected do this?

BTW: I use gcc 2.95.2.  Does it support templated constructors?

Sorry for the meandering post.  

Thanks,
John Hunter



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Aug  3 20:18:32 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:18:32 GMT
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <mailman.995637214.19543.python-list@python.org> <memo.20010803215845.16469d@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <sbHa7.86105$Xr6.429154@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

   Tim Rowe:
> You have lots of good ideas and suggestions from others. /Please/ don't
> change Python to accommodate them all; it would spoil it. Put them into a
> /new/ language. Maybe even build in call and data level compatibility so
> they can be well integrated. Then people can choose whichever one is best
> for the task.

    That is what Guido is doing. The current language is Python 2.1, future
languages will be called Python 2.2, Python 3.0, and so forth. If you really
don't want the language to change in any way, the right thing to do is to
fork the current implementation into a stability branch which can continue
to receive bug fixes, performance improvements and license changes.

   This may interest other developers enough to contribute. Then again, it
may not.

   Neil





From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Wed Aug  1 22:06:11 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 19:06:11 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com>

ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) wrote in message news:<112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a at posting.google.com>...
> grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) wrote in message news:<dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0 at posting.google.com>...
> > Go to:
> > 
> >   http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/Templates/
> > 
>  [snip]
> > What I am wanting to know is what we have learnt from all of this. If
> > one were designing yet another template system, what might be the best way
> > of approaching it? The idea being for it to be simple in appearance and
> > use, yet be powerful enough to harness features within the back end server.
> 
> We *did* design YATL this past spring. It started with some examples
> and discussion on the webware-discuss list. Cheetah emerged as our
> victor for various reasons including [a] we liked the design and [b]
> the author took it to maturity.
> 
> ...
>
> Outside of *SP, the 2 major templating camps that I see are "dollar
> sign/pound" or $#, and *ML.
> 
> In $# you use $ for substitution, often with dotted notation such as
> $employee.manager.salary, and # for directives like #if, #for, and
> #set. The idea is to provide enough power for simple display logic,
> but to keep your application logic outside the templates.
>
> ...
>
> The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
> substitutions. ...

Thanks for the analysis and pointers. Gives me more to think about.
I've included below some more details on the system I am looking
at applying this to though, as I am not sure an approach like Cheetah
gives sufficient power to interact with the back end system. I guess
this derives from the fact that I am not really after just a templating
system for HTML pages. To this end, approaches relying on Python
scripting in some form, such as PSP or PTL may result in a system more
able to harness the features of the back end system.

What it comes down to is that the back end system in question effectively
provides a Java bean like mechanism. The Webware PSP implementation provides
a similar mechanism through its "Can" functions, but here the object
accessed must be implemented in Python and be in the same process (I think).
In the system I have, there is a concept of distinct service objects.
These can be written in either Python or C++ and can be in the same process
or in a remote process connected via an internal messaging system.

These service objects can be accessed internally to the distributed
system through its own internal messaging system, or if a service is
exported appropriately, it can be accessed through a number of different
RPC over HTTP protocols including XML-RPC and SOAP. Examples of service
objects may be database adaptors, authentication services, mail services
etc. The methods accessible through these service objects can return all
the basic Python types, lists, dictionaries etc, plus some other extended
types.

Now from what few examples I have of JSP and Beans in books I have at hand,
they use various *ML type constructs to define what the Bean is and to
access attributes, call methods etc. From what I understand, a lot of this
*ML stuff is perhaps needed because of Java's strong typing and need to
instantiate variables before use. In Python I don't see the need for a lot
of the JSP *ML tags related to Beans.

What I mean here can be seen with the "Can" functions in the Webware PSP
implementation. Here one just uses some mechanism to access the equivalent
of the Bean. This may be the actual object, or could feasibly be a magic
auto method dispatching proxy. In the system I am working with, because the
Bean equivalent may or may not be in the same process or even written in
the same language, it would always be a proxy.

Although with a template system like Cheetah you might be able to map a
function to a particular exported method of a service, as far as I can
see, it would always be the case that such a function must return text
capable of being included into a web page. With PSP, the method of a
service object could return some data structure, which the in place code
could iterate over to produce the actual HTML.

In the architecture I have, I guess I am uncomfortable about having code
related to presentation mixed up in the service objects. I suppose that
some service objects may specifically relate to presentation, but in the
main I would want to preserve the idea of services returning data related
to the model, rather than a view of that model.

Having explained the parallels to a Bean type system, maybe you might now
have more ideas or comments. In the mean time I'll go look more at Zope
for ideas as I wasn't necessarily looking at documentation relating to the
now prefered scheme for doing template pages in that system.

BTW, if you are wondering what this system I keep talking about it, have
a look at the Python manual for OSE on "http://ose.sourceforge.net".


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 23:17:11 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:17:11 -0500
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
In-Reply-To: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <15245.45111.717311.365664@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Is there any editor support python?

Yes, there are a few.  I began a page a couple weeks ago to list such stuff:

    http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/editors.html

I have several pending inputs.  I'll try to get the page updated in the next
day or two.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 16 13:58:29 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:58:29 +0200
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org> <slrn9nnrkv.47f.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1232517.SZvhalqRGM@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> schrub:

> parses text. Note also that this is documentted under the heading
> "Parsing MIME documents" which wants to be changed to something like
> "Parsing Mail Documents".

That is definitely not true, because there are other uses for mime 
encapsulation, not only mail. The nearest example is Usenet News.

>>One question though: while I original wrote mimelib to handle the
>>MIME-specific tasks, it really is shaping up to be a general mail
>>handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
>>"maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too
>>generic.
> 
> Mail messages and usenet messages are rather similar. Similar enough
> that they ought to be represented by the same class (or perhaps,
> different subclasses of the same superclass). 

The same class, please. You can send the same message per mail and nntp 
at the same time (known as post&Mail).

> If one library covers both, then messagelib seems an approprate name.

Agree.


markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From nospam at nospam.de  Thu Aug 23 16:23:58 2001
From: nospam at nospam.de (Uwe Hoffmann)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:23:58 +0200
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.10 -- Scientific Computing with Python
References: <b6%f7.145881$g_3.22791856@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <mailman.998515330.9466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B85665E.2050007@nospam.de>

I?igo Serna wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I have problems with SciPy trying to run the example in SciPy FAQ.
> 
> Simplifying, this is where the problem comes from:
> 
> 	Python 2.1.1 (#5, Aug  5 2001, 02:09:22) 
> 	[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
> 	Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 	>>> 6.2 - 3.1
> 	3.1000000000000001
> 	>>> import gui_thread
> 	>>> <wxPython imported>
> 	>>> 
> 	>>> 6.2 - 3.1
> 	3.0
> 
> It seems the problem is originated in gui_thread/main.py when executing main.start()
> perhaps problems with threads.
> My machine is a x86 with 2 PIII CPUs running Linux 2.4.9.
> I have compiled manually python 2.1.1, SciPy, wxgtk (with threads support on) and
> wxpython.
> 
> Someone else with the same problems?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> I?igo Serna
> 
> 
> 
> 


try this after the import of gui_thread


import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"")  


regards
	uwe



From phawkins at spamnotconnact.com  Wed Aug  1 12:44:10 2001
From: phawkins at spamnotconnact.com (phawkins at spamnotconnact.com)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 12:44:10 -0400
Subject: Sorting Lists
References: <lSh77.64029$2V.13507417@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <0bj77.544176$eK2.114166570@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <9jm8re$a1c$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <wk7kwxvth7.fsf@mail.connact.com> <9jt3l9$bo2$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <wk8zh4l7ri.fsf@mail.connact.com>
Message-ID: <wkg0bb20it.fsf@mail.connact.com>

As expected, decorate-sort-undecorate runs out of memory much sooner
than the function-calling cmp_func version, and slows dramatically.
This test ran on a P 166 with 80 megs of RAM, running Redhat Linux
6.2.  

So... this version of decorate-sort-undecorate, using sort with no
auxiliary function, is a little less than 4 times faster than an
in-place sort using an auxiliary function.  Until the d-s-u algorithm
runs out of memory.

Which leaves us arithmetic afficionados asking: How much memory does a
shallow copy of a list take up, relative to the size of the original
list? 

Script started on Tue Jul 31 22:31:27 2001
python test_decorate.py 

data length: 10
decorate: 0.010000
cmp:      0.000000
cmp/dec:  0.000000

data length: 100
decorate: 0.010000
cmp:      0.010000
cmp/dec:  1.000000

data length: 200
decorate: 0.020000
cmp:      0.040000
cmp/dec:  2.000000

data length: 300
decorate: 0.020000
cmp:      0.060000
cmp/dec:  3.000000

data length: 400
decorate: 0.020000
cmp:      0.090000
cmp/dec:  4.500000

data length: 500
decorate: 0.030000
cmp:      0.110000
cmp/dec:  3.666667

data length: 1000
decorate: 0.070000
cmp:      0.260000
cmp/dec:  3.714286

data length: 5000
decorate: 0.420000
cmp:      1.610000
cmp/dec:  3.833333

data length: 10000
decorate: 0.890000
cmp:      3.540000
cmp/dec:  3.977528

data length: 50000
decorate: 5.440000
cmp:      21.310000
cmp/dec:  3.917279

data length: 75000
decorate: 8.940000
cmp:      34.040000
cmp/dec:  3.807606

data length: 100000
decorate: 12.070000
cmp:      45.710000
cmp/dec:  3.787075

data length: 150000
decorate: 19.420000
cmp:      70.690000
cmp/dec:  3.640062

data length: 200000
decorate: 30.740000
cmp:      97.650000
cmp/dec:  3.176643

data length: 250000
decorate: 111.100000
cmp:      116.010000
cmp/dec:  1.044194

data length: 300000
decorate: 400.050000
cmp:      141.570000
cmp/dec:  0.353881


Script done on Wed Aug  1 10:22:48 2001

>>>>> "p" == phawkins  <phawkins at connact.com> writes:

>>>>> "TB" == Tom Bryan <tbryan at python.net> writes:
TB> phawkins at connact.com wrote:

TB> Of course, I never claimed that it was faster.  One simply avoids 
TB> copying the list and sorts in place rather than returning a sorted 
TB> copy of the list. :-)

TB> By the way, would you care to post the results of your performances 
TB> tests.  Is it faster for lists of all sizes?  How does the speed difference 
TB> change as the size of the list changs?  

p> Looks pretty stable for the sizes of lists that I tested -- running it
p> several different times for all sizes of lists, it looks as if speed
p> differences are based on random data differences -- but I haven't yet
p> seen what it does when it thrashes.  I'll come back and post when I have.

TB> you-can't-get-away-that-easily-ly yours
TB> ---Tom

p> Well, I would have, but I'd done it in IDLE some time ago when I first
p> saw discussion of decorate-sort-undecorate.  But, in the interests of
p> truth and justice, here's a new version.

p> I designed my random-data-generator so as to create data fairly
p> similar to the original example in this thread, with the result that
p> the get-sick&tired-waiting-for-it limiting factor is the data
p> generation.  So if you want to play around with it, so as to see what
p> happens when the system starts thrashing, you might want to simplify
p> the data generation.

p> This is Windows 98, PII 450, 256 meg ram (and with several other programs
p> running). 

p> ------test_decorate.py-----------
p> from whrandom import randint
p> from string import letters
p> from time import clock

p> def make_data(length):
p>     return [[make_name(), make_name(), randint(0, 100)] for i in xrange(length)]

p> def make_name():
p>     word = ""
p>     length = randint(3,10)
p>     while len(word) < length:
p>         word = word + letters[randint(0,25)]
p>     return word.capitalize()

p> def dec_sort_by_field(seq,index):
p>      tmp = [ (item[index],item) for item in seq ]
p>      tmp.sort()
p>      return [ item for (_,item) in tmp ]

p> def cmp_sort_by_field( index ):
p>     def cmpfunc( x, y, i=index ):
p>         return cmp( x[i], y[i] )
p>     return cmpfunc

p> def time_cmp(data):
p>     start = clock()
p>     data.sort(cmp_sort_by_field(1))
p>     end = clock()
p>     return end - start  

p> def time_dec(data):
p>     start = clock()
p>     dec_sort_by_field(data, 1)
p>     end = clock()
p>     return end - start
    
p> for i in [10,100,200,300,400,500,1000,5000,10000,50000,75000,100000,150000,\
p>           200000, 250000, 300000]:
p>     data = make_data(i)
p>     dec = time_dec(data)
p>     cp = time_cmp(data)
p>     print "data length: %d" % i
p>     print "decorate: %f" % dec
p>     print "cmp:      %f" % cp
p>     if dec:
p>         print "cmp/dec:  %f\n" % (cp/dec)
p> -------------------end------------------

p> ran it a few times in emacs.... never did max memory.


p> Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
p> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> ## working on region in file c:/WINDOWS/TEMP/python--722007F4D...
p> data length: 10
p> decorate: 0.000138
p> cmp:      0.000373
p> cmp/dec:  2.696970

p> data length: 100
p> decorate: 0.001664
p> cmp:      0.004707
p> cmp/dec:  2.829219

p> data length: 200
p> decorate: 0.002791
p> cmp:      0.062291
p> cmp/dec:  22.319520

p> data length: 300
p> decorate: 0.004592
p> cmp:      0.019297
p> cmp/dec:  4.202409

p> data length: 400
p> decorate: 0.006918
p> cmp:      0.028260
p> cmp/dec:  4.084676

p> data length: 500
p> decorate: 0.007772
p> cmp:      0.036634
p> cmp/dec:  4.713793

p> data length: 1000
p> decorate: 0.018267
p> cmp:      0.083722
p> cmp/dec:  4.583226

p> data length: 5000
p> decorate: 0.132274
p> cmp:      0.539986
p> cmp/dec:  4.082318

p> data length: 10000
p> decorate: 0.350746
p> cmp:      1.232022
p> cmp/dec:  3.512577

p> data length: 50000
p> decorate: 1.971823
p> cmp:      7.555448
p> cmp/dec:  3.831707

p> data length: 75000
p> decorate: 3.181551
p> cmp:      11.692751
p> cmp/dec:  3.675173

p> data length: 100000
p> decorate: 4.401343
p> cmp:      16.481489
p> cmp/dec:  3.744650

p> data length: 150000
p> decorate: 7.256650
p> cmp:      25.021690
p> cmp/dec:  3.448105

>>>> ## working on region in file c:/WINDOWS/TEMP/python--722007SCK...
p> data length: 10
p> decorate: 0.000184
p> cmp:      0.000225
p> cmp/dec:  1.218182

p> data length: 100
p> decorate: 0.001300
p> cmp:      0.005864
p> cmp/dec:  4.511283

p> data length: 200
p> decorate: 0.002601
p> cmp:      0.011922
p> cmp/dec:  4.584273

p> data length: 300
p> decorate: 0.004932
p> cmp:      0.019423
p> cmp/dec:  3.937978

p> data length: 400
p> decorate: 0.008885
p> cmp:      0.027430
p> cmp/dec:  3.087059

p> data length: 500
p> decorate: 0.008477
p> cmp:      0.036760
p> cmp/dec:  4.336662

p> data length: 1000
p> decorate: 0.020899
p> cmp:      0.082618
p> cmp/dec:  3.953240

p> data length: 5000
p> decorate: 0.151913
p> cmp:      0.563729
p> cmp/dec:  3.710857

p> data length: 10000
p> decorate: 0.304589
p> cmp:      1.485802
p> cmp/dec:  4.878048

p> data length: 50000
p> decorate: 1.758838
p> cmp:      7.936150
p> cmp/dec:  4.512156

p> data length: 75000
p> decorate: 3.160845
p> cmp:      12.241860
p> cmp/dec:  3.872971

p> data length: 100000
p> decorate: 4.147288
p> cmp:      15.488422
p> cmp/dec:  3.734590

p> data length: 150000
p> decorate: 6.621114
p> cmp:      24.302384
p> cmp/dec:  3.670437

>>>> ## working on region in file c:/WINDOWS/TEMP/python--722007fMQ...
p> data length: 10
p> decorate: 0.000186
p> cmp:      0.000357
p> cmp/dec:  1.918919

p> data length: 100
p> decorate: 0.001405
p> cmp:      0.004687
p> cmp/dec:  3.337112

p> data length: 200
p> decorate: 0.002718
p> cmp:      0.011958
p> cmp/dec:  4.399630

p> data length: 300
p> decorate: 0.005749
p> cmp:      0.019170
p> cmp/dec:  3.334743

p> data length: 400
p> decorate: 0.007392
p> cmp:      0.028275
p> cmp/dec:  3.825057

p> data length: 500
p> decorate: 0.008398
p> cmp:      0.038744
p> cmp/dec:  4.613573

p> data length: 1000
p> decorate: 0.020952
p> cmp:      0.083020
p> cmp/dec:  3.962478

p> data length: 5000
p> decorate: 0.152054
p> cmp:      0.588490
p> cmp/dec:  3.870263

p> data length: 10000
p> decorate: 0.559918
p> cmp:      1.350087
p> cmp/dec:  2.411223

p> data length: 50000
p> decorate: 2.027378
p> cmp:      7.347429
p> cmp/dec:  3.624104

p> data length: 75000
p> decorate: 3.062071
p> cmp:      11.395732
p> cmp/dec:  3.721576

p> data length: 100000
p> decorate: 4.131656
p> cmp:      15.764242
p> cmp/dec:  3.815478

p> data length: 150000
p> decorate: 7.114213
p> cmp:      24.034858
p> cmp/dec:  3.378428

p> data length: 200000
p> decorate: 9.644709
p> cmp:      33.191710
p> cmp/dec:  3.441442

p> data length: 250000
p> decorate: 17.852266
p> cmp:      50.232261
p> cmp/dec:  2.813775

p> data length: 300000
p> decorate: 20.336841
p> cmp:      75.334111
p> cmp/dec:  3.704317

>>>> 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 17:32:48 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:32:48 +0200
Subject: Errata: Typo in Python Tutorial
References: <79179cf5.0108141202.14390c71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lc5l40234n@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Rupert Scammell" <rupe at metro.yak.net> wrote in message
news:79179cf5.0108141202.14390c71 at posting.google.com...
> I wish I had a net-torpedo sometimes, that would catch errant posts as
> they sped towards an uncountable number of Usenet servers.
>
> My confusion about the pop() method for lists in my last post was one
> of incorrectly interpreted notation.  I interpreted the [0] notation
> in s.pop([0]) as representing a single item list object, rather than
> just the notation for an optional parameter to the method.
>
> Sorry 'bout that.

A very natural error to make!  When feasible (it almost always
is, but not always, sigh) I prefer to indicate default argument by
Python-ish syntax, rather than the [] meta-syntax that lends
itself to confusion with the brackets of Python itself.  So, e.g.,
I'd present the pop method, for example, as:

    s.pop(i=-1)    same as x = s[i]; del s[i]; return x

But, alas, the brackets are traditional (and, double alas,
sometimes there IS no 'argument default value' that is
truly equivalent to the total lack of an argument... e.g,
the getattr builtin -- there's no value one can pass as
the 3rd argument to make it behave as it does when
it's called with only 2 arguments).


Alex





From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Wed Aug 29 22:52:46 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:52:46 GMT
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9orbad.2ks.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Formalin <formalin14 at email.com.cn> dijo:
> Is there any editor support python?

Interpreted as:

Is there any editor [with] support [for] Python?

The answer is: Oh so many!

Emacs has a notably powerful Python mode.

Vim (a vi clone) has support for Python syntax rules, as well as rules
for dozens of other file types.

UltraEdit-32, if it doesn't already have Python syntax coloring, is
extensible and it can be added.

This question is probably better asked in comp.editors where this is
specifically what they deal with. comp.editors is populated largely with
pro-vi and pro-Emacs users, but there are many other editors discussed.

I personally use Vim for everything I possibly can. I changed
news readers and mail clients so I could use it more!  A lot of
Pythonistas use Emacs (as, I believe, does Python's creator).

Good luck!

-- 
You are alive. So live.
    -- Morpheus, The Sandman


From katz at underlevel.net  Sat Aug 18 17:01:35 2001
From: katz at underlevel.net (Jordan Katz)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 17:01:35 -0400
Subject: Fully handling exceptions.
Message-ID: <m3n14x2ic0.fsf@underlevel.underlevel.net>

Hi,

  I have the following piece of code:

    import urllib
    try:
      src_in = urllib.urlopen(ag_url)
    except IOError:
      print '%s : connection cannot be made or \
             server returned error.' %(ag_url)
    except:
      print '%s : unknown error.' %(ag_url)

  urllib's manual documents IOError as the only possible exception
  raised by urlopen; does this make my last except superfluous, or can
  there be other exceptions raised when urlopen is called that the
  last except may handle?

Thanks,
-- 
Jordan Katz <katz at underlevel.net>  |  Mind the gap


From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug 27 15:34:11 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:34:11 -0700
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
References: <mailman.998762078.15143.python-list@python.org> <3B880077.B2ABBB5A@jam.rr.com> <7x8zg58zn9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B8AA0B3.E7327783@home.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

>  For example, I
> don't see an easy way to make the buttons in a column come out the
> same size (though their labels were of different lengths).

My tk is rustly, but I know it can be done...

> I'm still very interested in hearing comparisons between Tkinter
> and other Python toolkits.

My tk is rusty because I've been using wxPython. It could do a very nice
job eith that sort of thing (and many others). Check out sizers: they
are very powerful, once you have wrapped your head around them.

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 21 18:42:39 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:42:39 -0400
Subject: Problem getting to my variables
References: <3B772142.81AA45FD@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <TpBg7.98850$rV6.4801523@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"vio" <vmilitaru at sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B772142.81AA45FD at sympatico.ca...
> Newbie question: What's the syntax for accessing a variable in one method
from
> another. Say the two methods:
>
> ----------
> def manage_addFoo(self, id, title, REQUEST=None):
>     . . .
>     A_folder = getattr(base_folder,someID)
>     . . .
>
> def manage_addBar(self, id, REQUEST=None):
>     . . .
>     manage_addFoo.A_folder._setObject(id, BarObject)
>     . . .
>
> ----------
>
> Just to give some context, this is Zope code: in the second method I
simply want
> to add an object to 'A_folder' which is defined in the first method. I
would
> like to know what's the correct syntax (obviously my line 4 is wrong). And
I
> don't want to use 'return A_folder' in manage_addFoo because this method
defines
> many such variables. I just want to selectively get at the 'A_folder' from
> manage_addBar().
>
Well, I suspect your major problem is that (unless you omitted some "global"
statement) the A_folder you bind to in manage_addFoo only exists during the
method call, and is thereafter lost and garbage collected. You might want to
think about making A_folder an attribute of the instance, which you would do
by altering the assignment to:

    self.A_folder = ...

You can then simply refer to it as self.A_folder in the other method.

which-is-why-self-gets-passed-implicitly-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 24 01:19:21 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:19:21 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Russell Turpin" <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a at posting.google.com...
> Neil Schemenauer <nas at python.ca> wrote in message
news:<mailman.998582617.17836.python-list at python.org>...
> > The object "lst" does not have some hidden attribute that
> > is a list. It really is itself a list object.  That's the
> > way things are implemented. Using some other mental model
> > is bound to get you into trouble sooner or later.
>
> This gets to the nub of the matter. Let's take your example:
>
>     class MyList(list):
>         pass
>
>     lst = MyList()
>
> So "lst" is really a list. But it also is really an object,

*Everying in Python is an object, including all builtins.

> instantiated from a class.

Currently it would be better to think of it as instantiated from a
subtype.  The type of a class instance is 'instance'.  The type of a
subtype instance is that subtype, just as the type of a list instance
is 'list'.

> So one can do things like:
>
>     lst.a = "I just created attribute 'a'."
>     lst.b = []
>
> This is correct, right?

According to what I understood from some emails from Guido, the
internal difference between a list instance and a mylist instance is
the addition to the structure of a pointer to __dict__, which allows
user-defined attributes.  Otherwise, the layout is *exactly* the same
(and different from an 'instance' object).

Terry J. Reedy





From dcinege at psychosis.com  Thu Aug  9 23:03:37 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:03:37 -0400
Subject: Interactive bourne shell in py?
Message-ID: <3B734F09.ADE97FE6@psychosis.com>

Anyone know of any interactive shell wrappers for python that could
handle the basic needs of a login shell,

IE
explict command execution
basic file descriptor redirection
variable substitution

Something bourne scripting compatible maybe?
IE It could handle this as input

var='hello';echo $var | sed s/h/H/ > hi.txt &



From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sat Aug  4 23:40:56 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:40:56 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041317320.23263-100000@bms>  <E15TAIg-0003rW-00@imp.aerie> <00f101c11d5c$8117c560$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <010101c11d60$6ff3d040$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

Actually, don't multiply self._TIME_EPSILON by anything.  :-)

Wait until Jan 10, 2004 and call your former employer.  They
will probably have a job for you.

>>> time.asctime(time.localtime(2.0**30))
'Sat Jan 10 05:37:04 2004'   <<< the next time() mantissa overflow.

I wrote:
> import time
> 
> class IncreasingTimer:
>   . . .
>         self._TIME_EPSILON = olde*4.0
>   . . .

Actually, it doesn't matter.  The world is going to end when the
mantissa overflows anyway.  You have until Jan 10, 2004 to
repent!  The Day of the Mantissa is coming!  Guido loves you!

- Ken





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  2 12:02:25 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:02:25 -0400
Subject: How to define a GLOBAL Variable ?
References: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au> <mailman.996764823.3747.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZNea7.18010$9i1.1382894@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Fran?ois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.996764823.3747.python-list at python.org...
> [Peter Moscatt]
>
> > If I wish to define a variable that I want to become global to ALL
classes
> > within a .py file - how is this best achieved ?
>
> Hell, Peter.
>
> It's easy (like most things in Python!).  Just define your class global
> variable, using the class name to the left of a dot.  For example:
>
>         >>> class Factory:
>         ... def printer(self):
>         ... print self.value
>         ...
>         >>> a = Factory()
>         >>> b = Factory()
>         >>> Factory.value = 3.1415926
>         >>> a.printer()
>         3.1415926
>         >>> b.printer()
>         3.1415926
>
Unfortunately this makes the value attribute globl to all instances of a
class, rather than all classes of the module as requested.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From shriek at gmx.co.uk  Fri Aug 17 02:52:52 2001
From: shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 23:52:52 -0700
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <mailman.997988213.16195.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <97ae44ee.0108162252.7c07a9e8@posting.google.com>

Markus wrote: 

>> the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they
>> display when the recipient views the message.  Just how does one
>> compose a message like that with Python may I ask?
>
>As far as I know, those image _are_ attached. But the body of the 
>message is html, and contains an img-tag that references the attachment.
>
>May be you can get a raw look on the source of such a message to 
>further introspect this.

I checked this on Eudora and you're right.  Eudora detaches the image
and places it in a folder called "Embedded" and then uses an IMG tag 
<IMG SRC="file://.... Eudora\Embedded">

Note that this is different from the usual place Eudora would store
attachments so there has to be some way this is noted in MIME.



Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote :

> I just wonder if Outlook way to embed is standard or just application
> dependent.

I've been doing some testing and it's supported by Outlook and by Eudora
on Windows platform. But then things get screwy when you link to online 
images. Let's say you have the following HTML email.

 <i>Dear Boss</i>,
 This is our <b>bold</b> new logo. Hope you like it.
 <img src="http://www.yourserver.com/yourlogo.gif">
 Love Steve

Then Microsoft Outlook will send it as is and you'll receive the exact
same HTML as above. But Outlook Express will actually include the image
and send it as an 'embedded' image as described previously.

Stephen


From ctavares at develop.com  Sat Aug  4 14:20:42 2001
From: ctavares at develop.com (Chris Tavares)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:20:42 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net> <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Robert Amesz" <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> wrote in message
news:Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
> Bengt Richter wrote:
>
> > On 03 Aug 2001 20:20:01 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
> > wrote: [...]
> >
> >>Yes, the example I cited was well before all this.  I need to go
> >>back and reread the LGPL.  One area that was not (and still is not,
> >>only because I have not kept up with it) clear to me is how code
> >>generated by flex and bison was to be treated since they include
> >>GPLed code in the output...  I'll get around to looking into this
> >>when I need to.
> >>
> > Don't have bison handy for some reason, but no reason to suffer FUD
> > re flex:
>
> But he's right about Bison, I remember that distinctly: output from
> Bison should be considered GPLed because it contains GPLed sourcecode
> from Bison. Why the rationale was not applied to Flex is still a
> mystery to me, but there you have it.
>
> Fortunately, there are alternatives.
>
>
> Robert Amesz
>

Really? I don't have the docs handy right now, but I distinctly remember
there being a specific exception in the Bison license to deal with this
exact problem - you're allowed to use the Bison generated code & parser
engine in whatever you want, no GPL restrictions apply. Unless the license
has changed in the last five years, anyway.

-Chris





From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 24 11:38:18 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:38:18 -0500
Subject: Unicode Python Links (WAS Re: Linking Dictionary Values)
References: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com> <slrn9ocrb2.102.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <toctbfhen2o454@corp.supernews.com>

This is awesome!  And it answers on how to link to text files too. One can
build a whole CGI information booth with drop down lists that shows
information on a web page based on the 'key' selected in the drop down list.
My next inquiry is:  How can we show Unicode characters for the keys and the
values.  Say I want to build a dictionary that can show Hebrew and/or Arabic
Keys and link it to values and show these values in
English/Hebrew/Arabic/Syriac (Syriac is included in Unicode)?  It is the
latter part that I am interested in.  I am just thinking aloud here :-)
Are there any links that discuss issues of Internationalization regarding
Python?
Maan

"Sylvain Thenault" <syt at pegasus.logilab.fr> wrote in message
news:slrn9ocrb2.102.syt at pegasus.logilab.fr...
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:31:44 -0500, Maan M. Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net>
wrote:
>
> >Also, is it possible to link a value of a Dictionary key into a Python
> >function/procedure?  So, if the key is encountered, a way for the
> >functionprocedure to be run.
>
> it's possible:
>
> >>> def test():
> ...     print 'hello maan'
> ...
> >>> dict={}
> >>> dict['key']=test
> >>> dict['key']()
> hello maan
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Sylvain Thenault
>
> LOGILAB
>




From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 27 12:13:55 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:13:55 -0700
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <9mdrk3$a8$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185 at smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>,
Brian E Gallew  <geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
>Yes, os.spawnv() is easier to use, but it's only available on Windows.
>os.fork() is only available on Unix.  This restriction is noted in the
>1.5.2 documentation (which I'm still using).

os.spawnv() is available on Unix in later versions of Python, so you have
two options:

* Upgrade to Python 2.1.1 (it's actually fixed earlier, but if you're
upgrading, you might as well get the best)

* Grab the os module from a later Python version and backport it to
1.5.2 if necessary.

Unless you've got a compelling reason, I recommend the first option.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From nas at python.ca  Tue Aug 28 09:42:06 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:42:06 -0700
Subject: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
In-Reply-To: <20010828142445.A19476@isetroc.com>; from dlharris@mail.usyd.edu.au on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 02:24:45PM +1000
References: <20010828142445.A19476@isetroc.com>
Message-ID: <20010828064205.A25331@glacier.arctrix.com>

Dave Harrison wrote:
> Im writing a script that goes through and reads zipped log.  So far so
> cool.
[...]
> But to my surprise and mild horror 1.5.2 was clocking horrendously
> faster than 2.2.1 ....
> 
> Whats the deal?

The readlines() method of the gzip object is much slower in 2.x.
Internally it now just calls readline() repeat repeat repeat repeat
repeat repeat repeat repeatedly.  Using xreadlines() will not help since
it ends up calling readline() as well.  I don't know why the gzip module
was changed in this way but I'm sure it can be made much faster.  Anyone
what to submit a patch to SourceForge?

In the mean time you could use:

     file = os.popen("gzip -dc filename")

  Neil



From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 11:48:07 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:48:07 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <mailman.999263627.3276.python-list@python.org> <9mo8260712@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910EB566B5CB7PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> said :

> Sorry for "hijacking" your response skip, but I didn't get
> Fred's original question!  So -- the locale module is the
> one that serves this need:
> 
>>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_NUMERIC, 'us') 'English_United
>>>> States.1252' locale.format("%d",1024*1024,1) '1,048,576' 
>>>>
> Unfortunately, this implies a global, non-thread-safe
> change, and is NOT oriented to just letting one format
> a number once with a given thousand-separator, so it
> may or may not be what one was looking for.

Yup, I read through the module doc pages and the warnings there are quite 
explicit. I guess for specific use in a complex, threaded environment a 
homemade string-massaging routine like those offered by Skip et al would be 
safer. Fortunately (or not) in my case the context is extremely simple (as 
I can't even get a second thread to run, see separate posting :-), so 
"locale" does the job nicely.

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 23:32:48 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:32:48 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com> <vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net> <9l409801oli@enews4.newsguy.com> <0Kid7.141343$um3.1230050@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B75F8E0.10178322@engcorp.com>

Jeremy Jones wrote:
> 
> I will probably use XML for a number of reasons:
> 
[...]
> 3)  (And this one is primarily for Peter Hansen, to answer his statement on
> picking something simple and getting it working)  

To be fair, Alex was the one who first brought that up in this 
thread and I was really just echoing my agreement with his 
Pythonic reminder about simplicity.  :)

> I could use stuff that I am already more familiar with
> rather than learning XML and how to walk down a DOM tree; and I could
> probably put together a set of scripts with the familiar technology more
> quickly.  And I would probably (as Peter pointed out) be following good XP
> rationality by doing so.  However, I think that XML fits in nicely for a
> future project that I have in mind.  I know that this violates XP, but I
> have that flexibility with the project that I am working on right now.  So,
> for my technological growth and for learning something for a future project,
> I will probably go with XML.

All the reasons you mention are excellent reasons to go with 
an approach which might not give you a working solution "right away".

XP is not about doing tiny and in-the-long-term-wasteful baby steps 
towards a distant goal.  It's a more pragmatic approach to things.
If you do not need to get the current task out of the way really
quickly, taking an approach which teaches you about a technology
you will probably use in the future is a useful thing.  It might
even mean you conclude XML is not suitable for your future project,
in which case learning that now is very much aligned with XP ideals.

XP might flip things around for you: pretend that your short-term
task is to get a quick foundation in XML, and getting a working 
solution to your test data problem is "free". 

so-hateful-of-birds-he-never-kills-just-one-ly yr's,
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 21 23:31:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:31:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Catching all exceptions *and* their args
In-Reply-To: <gjFg7.269$EE3.123895@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108212325470.18658-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Steve R. Hastings wrote:

> Hello.  I'm a Python newbie who has searched a bunch of documentation
> before posting this.  If it's documented somewhere I missed, please point
> me at the documentation.

Strangely enough, the information for catching getopt errors is in exactly the
same location as the documentation for the getopt module itself
(http://www.python.org/doc/1.5.2p2/lib/module-getopt.html). It turns out that
if you let the exception through, you'll notice that the exception raised is
getopt.error. Therefore your program has to catch getopt.error.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From joost_jacob at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 20 17:46:08 2001
From: joost_jacob at hotmail.com (J.Jacob)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:46:08 -0700
Subject: Python under Windows:  free cl.exe?
Message-ID: <13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3@posting.google.com>

subject: Windows Compiler to build Python and related stuff


Where can we download the (free commandline version) microsoft C++ 6.0
compiler cl.exe and nmake.exe?  We need it if we want to do
extending/embedding C(++) and many 3rd party Python packages want you to use
cl.exe and nmake.exe

The cygwin effort of using a free GNU C++ compiler for building Python looks
great but there are just too much systems/packages/modules (Python itself too)
based on the microsoft compiler with makefiles for nmake and nothing for the
Gnu compilers.  Too bad i think !  I would much rather use the Gnu compiler,
but...i do not want to have to rewrite tons of makefiles and installscripts
all the time and i can not beat microsoft so i have to join.

I read somewhere (forgot where) you can download a free version of the
microsoft compiler (and you also need nmake.exe, not sure if that comes with
it) as "part of the microsoft C#/.NET SDK" if i remember well....i did look
around at www.microsoft.com but i could not find it, their website is very
slow and unclear.  Anybody knows the location ?  There should be a link on the
Python download page too, near the source distibution maybe.  I did try to use
the microsoft support at their website but uhm....well see for yourself :)


regards

Joost Jacob


From m.linnemann at addcom.de  Wed Aug 29 18:33:40 2001
From: m.linnemann at addcom.de (Michael Linnemann)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:33:40 +0200
Subject: Autoresize in Tkinter
References: <4e2ddb70.0108281256.6a23eabc@posting.google.com> <3B8CF332.E85097A8@westerngeco.com>
Message-ID: <4kqjm9.766.ln@haegar.fqdn.th-h.de>

Am Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:50:42 +0100 Martin Franklin wrote:

>> Why doesn't the text resize with the frame in this code example?
 
>> import Tkinter as Tk
>> root = Tk.Tk()
>> t=Tk.Text(root)
>> t.grid(sticky=Tk.NW+Tk.SE)
>> t.insert(Tk.END, "test")
>> root.mainloop()

> I don't use the Tk gridder much perhaps someone else can answer the
> question...
> however using the packer like so :-

root.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
root.rowconfigure(0, weight=1)

should do the trick.

Seems my investment in "Programming Python' begins to pay off ;-)


From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 20:04:14 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 17:04:14 -0700
Subject: passing FILE pointers to a non-MSVC++ compiled extension type???
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f@posting.google.com>

hello,

bottomline: 
is there someway i can write an extenstion type's print method so that
instead of fprintf-ing to the FILE* directly, i call back to some
python c api function with the c string of what i want to print???

explanation:
i have written an extension type which defines its own print method. 
when it is compiled/linked under MSVC++ 6.0, the resulting .pyd works
correctly.  however, when compiled/lined with borland's command line
compiler/linker, the print method causes the python session to crash. 
in particular, the offending line within the print method is:

fprintf(fp, "%s", (Self->Data).ReturnCString());  // fp causes crash

i have read that other people have had the same problem, bc FILE
pointers (which the variable fp is) cannot be passed between between
MSVC++ compiled code and Borland-compiled code.

a not-so-elegant workaround is to replace the above offending line in
the print method with:

std::cout << (Self->Data).ReturnCString();  // notice no fp is used
here

but this only works when python is run in a console window and doesnt
work when the interpretter is embedded in a windows app (like
PythonWin) where python redirects its own output.

i absolutely have to use the borland compiler bc for the rest of my
project, i use fairly intricate (though perfectly standard) c++ code
which MSVC++ cant compile but borland will.  i have read in a long ago
post that this is because borland and msvc++ use different RTLs.  is
there a workaround within the python c api for this???  is there
someway i can rewrite my print method so that instead of fprintf-ing
to the FILE* directly, i call back to some python c api function with
the c string of what i want to print to the console???

many thanks,

doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 18:32:53 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:32:53 -0400
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:17:34 +0400."
             <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140014220.1658-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140014220.1658-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
Message-ID: <200108132232.SAA18405@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> Python programmers use the following idiom:
> 
> class A:
>   # ...
>   def __mul__(self, other):
>     ...
>   __rmul__ = __mul__
> 
> 
> If I understood correctly, __rmul__ will be of different
> category from __mul__? This causes asymmetry...

Sorry, you must have misunderstood.  They will be the same.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  1 20:06:06 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:06:06 -0400
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEOKLCAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bengt Richter]
> ...
> I don't think there is there's any reason you *couldn't*
> use general numbers (excluding complex ;-) as the real and imag parts.

The old Demo/classes/Complex.py allows even complex numbers as "the real"
and "the imaginary" components of a Complex() object -- the constructor is
obviously trying to allow for that, but the code looks like it would blow up
if you tried it.  If true, nobody ever tried it, or did but didn't care
enough to bother fixing it -- or even reporting it.

> I'm guessing it would just be a lot of mostly boring rework programming
> and there's hotter things now for the internals people (of which I'm
> not one, in case the thought occurred. Not that I wouldn't like to be at
> some point ;-).

Jump in!  Love to have you.  Try to do something useful, though <wink>.

> The trick would be to preserve speed and still get generality. I think
> it could be done, but is that where you want to allocate the people
> who both can and are in a position to do that?

Guido doesn't allocate much of anything -- for an Absolute Dictator, he's
got surprisingly little power.  The things that get worked on are what
people generously volunteer to do.  In the other direction, though, my bet
is you'd face strong resistance if you proposed to bloat the code base with
generalizations of complex numbers that have no value to Python users beyond
"oooh! neat hack -- I guess".  There are nagging small continuing costs of
many kinds that come with each line of code.

including-the-burden-of-reading-them<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug  3 14:43:50 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:43:50 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108031319470.334-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032240570.1015-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Steven D. Majewski wrote:

>On 3 Aug 2001, Paul Boddie wrote:
>
>> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.996819245.9680.python-list at python.org>...
>> > Hello!
>> >
>> > More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
>> > blanks in ( ).
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
>> > Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
>> > with the same ugly padding...
>>
>> I first saw it employed in Java and C++ programs some time ago. I
>> suspect it has more to do with the usage of poor text editing software
>> than anything else; that is, software which isn't well-suited to
>> editing programs.
>>
>
>In my case, I think it has more to do with my wearing bifocals than
>with my editor. ( Although, if I had syntax coloring working, I might
>not need the extra spaces to see clearly! )

OK... I do not question that. My concern is that I see more and more
Python code in that non-style... Probably more and more programmers need
glasses to work. Especially Java ones ;-) Or is it official Java style?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 03, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "MACINTOSH - Most Apps Crash, If Not, Then Operating System Hangs" _/




From sheila at spamcop.net  Fri Aug 31 15:40:31 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:40:31 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <danvot096t6fereltm5juv2fo6jhnnq9n0@4ax.com> <iyRj7.61$j9.327@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <01qvotkqv74eio0fp1fiotd8a503qjihpi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:27:10 GMT, "jeroen paul goudsmit"
<hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<iyRj7.61$j9.327 at castor.casema.net>:

:ooh, python don't makes error's like that. I have version 2.2 i think. Can
:anyone help moi?

I can't help but think that you're just jerking us around.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From kav062 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 16:13:18 2001
From: kav062 at yahoo.com (Kannan Vijayan)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 13:13:18 -0700
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a1364c9f.0108051213.575bd0f8@posting.google.com>

bob at tharin.com (Lang) wrote in message news:<9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d at posting.google.com>...
> Any cgi/web person out there,
> 
> I wrote a couple cgi scripts that I use to manage a database.  When I
> send changes through a form, it calls a script that makes the database
> commit.  Once it is done with the commit, it prints out a return
> button (that's all that shows up on the page) which needs to be pushed
> to return to the main page.  How do I call the script, run the commit,
> and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?
> 
> I think that this is pretty basic, but I can't find an answer. 
> Thanks.
> 
> -Lang

This is more of an HTML/HTTP question.  You can do it using a HTTP
Redirect header, or HTML Refresh tag.

I've never used them, so you'll have to check a reference manual or
consult a more relavent forum for more info.

-kannan


From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 21 21:25:20 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:25:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Advice for imaging
In-Reply-To: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F079516@ULURU2>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108212120540.18658-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Tom Harris wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have to do some quick prototyping on some image processing algorithms. The
> requirements are to read in a large 16 bit per pixel image, do stuff to it
> in various ways, and then compute various metrics on the result. The purpose
> of this is to optimise an algorithm. I have libraries  for accessing and
> loading/saving the images already written in C++.
>
> Last time I had to do this I wrote simple command line wrappers in C to call
> my libraries and write out images in a simple format (in fact it was
> Poskanser bitmap, which is the simplest image format ever). Then wrote more
> command line tools in C to try out the algorithms, and scripted the whole
> mess with Perl and bash.
>
> Now, however, I have learnt Python and there has got to be a better way
> (especially as I can no longer understand what my Perl code did, or why or
> how). I can see that using SWIG to wrap my libraries so that I can call them
> from Python will be easy, but I am not sure quite what is the Pythonic way
> of accessing an image (my lib represents an image as a pointer to the start
> of a buffer together with methods to determine width, height, padding, etc.
> I looked at the Python Imaging Library but unfortunately it does not appear
> to support 16 bit pixel images.
> Since speed is not really an issue, I was thinking in terms of a simple
> class that is attached to an image that is able to iterate over it in
> various ways, and get/set pixel values.
>
> Advice?
>
>  Tom Harris, Software Engineer
>  Optiscan Imaging, 15-17 Normanby Rd, Notting Hill, Melbourne, Vic 3168,
> Australia
>  email tomh at optiscan.com     ph +61 3 9538 3333  fax +61 3 9562 7742

Take a look at PythonMagick (http://starship.python.net/crew/zack/pymagick/)
and NumPy (http://www.pfdubois.com/numpy/) and see if they do what you need.
You may find that you don't even need the C++ libraries at all.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 28 17:01:43 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:01:43 -0700
Subject: thread.py missing
References: <0rTi7.24935$k9.69@news-lex.software.com>
Message-ID: <9mh0rn$5fa$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <0rTi7.24935$k9.69 at news-lex.software.com>,
Mark Duquette <mark.duquette at openave.com> wrote:
>
>I am trying to build Python 2.11 on Solaris 2.8.  Everything seems to be
>working fine, but I never get the thread.py module.

There is no thread.py module; it's an extension that gets compiled into
Python.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From diedanootdie at danoot.com  Tue Aug 28 13:46:00 2001
From: diedanootdie at danoot.com (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:46:00 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
Message-ID: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net>

Hello people

I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language for
me to use. is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?
I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
like it. If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a python
sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")
Is python hard to learn? And is there a dutch person in this group? If there
is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.
Could you please answer my questions? Thanks.

Bye,

        Jeroen




From lomax at pumpichank.com  Fri Aug  3 03:45:39 2001
From: lomax at pumpichank.com (Frank "Sticky Shift" Lomax)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 03:45:39 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <slrn9mk0as.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCECGLDAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <15210.22179.605608.499578@anthem.wooz.org>

    > Give the guy a break, Carl.  Frank may not be the swiftest coder
    > around, but it's really not unusual for newcomers to take as
    > long as 3 weeks to reach the 100 Kline/day Python median.
    
Thank you Uncle Timmy, for being so understanding.  This is what I
have come to love about the Python community.

As you surmise, I have been coding Forth at the Cheez Whiz factory for
about 35 years.  I was lead designer of the WEINOR 59 (Whiz Extruder
and Injector, Numerically Operated Robot) and only just discovered
Python a few months ago, after a dare from Melvin X, an employee of
mine who is the Primary Cheez Canal De-gunker and Tube Washer.  Melvin
is a very bright kid, but even so, I was quite skeptical until he
boosted our Whiz Canister Thruput seven fold after converting the
prime Cheez pump control software from Forth to Python in a (very
productive, and crackerful) weekend.

    > If Frank is *very* new at Python (which it sounds like), he'll
    > see a big improvement when he breaks himself of the habit of
    > reaching for his curly-brace keys all the time.

Those are not the only curly things I reach for when I program Python.

habits-are-like-skulls,-coconuts,-or-virgin-cheez-whiz-bottles-
    you-have-to-smash-them-into-brick-walls-several-times-at-high-
    velocity-before-they-will-break-and-then-just-watch-what-comes-
    out-ly y'rs - frank



From guido at python.org  Wed Aug  1 12:00:01 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:00:01 GMT
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108010342.22378ae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cpn15jydno.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:

> Firstly, I'd like the PEP to be more definite about when the new
> semantics become the default/only semantics. Stating a version number
> really isn't definite enough, since we've all seen a "bumping up" of a
> version number in the relatively recent past. In the historical record
> there are plenty of references to "Python 2.0" which should really
> refer to the subsequently adopted name "Python 3000", and things could
> become confusing should you decide to adopt the "3.0" label
> prematurely for some reason in the future.
> 
> Secondly, I would suggest a *long* period of transition. Not only are
> there going to be problems with programs which are still in use from
> today, but there will also be problems with books, articles and
> tutorials. At least make the time of "conversion" happen when it's
> extremely unlikely that someone will walk into a bookstore and find
> the current edition of "Learning Python", for example.

I've added this to the PEP now:

    Q. When will Python 3.0 be released?

    A. We don't plan that long ahead, so we can't say for sure.  We
       want to allow at least two years for the transition.  If Python
       3.0 comes out sooner, we'll keep the 2.x line alive for
       backwards compatibility until at least two years from the
       release of Python 2.2.  In practice, you will be able to
       continue to use the Python 2.x line for several years after
       Python 3.0 is released, so you can take your time with the
       transition.  Sites are expected to have both Python 2.x and
       Python 3.x installed simultaneously.

> Thirdly, it would be good if you addressed some of the concerns about
> type preservation more directly in the PEP. Some people are concerned
> about their integers becoming floats or rationals by accident, thus
> either losing precision or exploding their memory usage. It would be
> nice if some reassuring words could be employed suggesting how this
> might be avoided in practice.

Unclear what the question would be and how to address it.  PEP 238
changes nothing except the behavior of /, which will return a float or
rational in Python 3.0.  I don't think I need to address this any
further.  If you're asking about the reworked numerical model, answers
about that don't belong in this PEP.  I don't think you need to worry,
by the way.

> I feel that most of the "noise" on this issue could have been avoided
> had the intentions of the developers been communicated clearly from
> the start.

Much of the initial communication was done by people who hadn't read
the PEP and misstated the plan (e.g. omitting the transitional period
or the separate int division operator).  Then others started
complaining about the poorly laid-out plan -- again without reading
the PEP.  Typical usenet style -- I don't know how we could have
avoided this.

> To see a patch for some radical new functionality being
> issued against an upcoming release, with only scant justification for
> its inclusion and little *evident* consideration for the damage
> possible to existing code, is almost guaranteed to scare and anger
> people.

Again, you're acting on hearsay.  Had you tried or even just studied
the patch that I initially posted, you would have noticed that the
default semantics weren't changed by the patch.

> I can see the benefits of making these changes in the context of a
> numeric system overhaul, but what seemed to be communicated was, "This
> is going to change because I never liked it in the first place and
> can't bear to wake up every morning knowing that it's there." This
> doesn't justify some of the comments made on the subject, but it does
> justify the sense of alarm expressed by a number of people.

Words put in my mouth.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 14 07:54:57 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:54:57 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <1709172.gFLt9SDvcz@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk> schrub:
 
> Oops!  Very true.  I should have rewritten it as

>      e = 'wow'
>      b,c,d = 'wow'
>      a = 'wow'

This still isn't exactly true.

Imagine, that the expression on the right side has side effects, than 
you shoud only evaluate it one time. 

And with the get/set operators that seem to emerge, access to instance 
variables also can have side effects, that means the order in which you 
assign is incorrect, as - at least according to chapter 6.3 of th 1.5.2 
reference manual - the assignment order is strictly left to right.

In those cases, one would have to write

  tmp = "wow"
  a = tmp
  b,c,d = tmp
  e = tmp
  del tmp

to acheive the same behaviour as in
  a = b,c,d = e = "wow"

(as long as I didn't miss anything)

> Hmm.  The argument about obfuscation versus repetition comes more
> clearly
> into focus.  I still think multiple assignment is a bad thing...

Then just don't use it :-)

I think it sometimes is a good thing to have, but you have to know 
about the exact semantics.


markus

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 17 22:51:56 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:51:56 -0500
Subject: feature request: parameter functions
In-Reply-To: <7477296186.20010817221510@neosynapse.net>
References: <7477296186.20010817221510@neosynapse.net>
Message-ID: <15229.55372.179974.221567@beluga.mojam.com>

    Steven> A feature idea for Python.  Right now, you can specify default
    Steven> parameters in functions and these parameters can be functions,
    Steven> but this is of limited value, since the function is evaluated at
    Steven> the time the def statement is initially executed.  I'd like
    Steven> these function parameters to be dynamically evaluated, and I'd
    Steven> like to take it a step farther so that it's not strictly a
    Steven> default parameter issue.  Specifically, I'd like to be able to
    Steven> pass any of the parameter values to the function if they WERE
    Steven> specified.
    ...
    Steven> Thoughts, comments?

Sounds kind of like you want thunks or curried functions.  I've never been
real clear on the distinctions.  I believe Alex Martelli added a curry class
implementation to the ActiveState Python Cookbook.  Check that out and see
if it doesn't do what you want.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 14:06:49 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:06:49 -0700
Subject: Disabling Cache?
References: <3B7D2983.77C3CBE3@mitre.org>
Message-ID: <3B7D5D39.CEBE78A@ccvcorp.com>


Angel Asencio wrote:

>   I know that I can do "reload" to load a module all over again.  But
> I do not want to trace all the modules
> to determine which ones are dependent and reload them.
>
>   Is there a way to disable the caching?  I am tired of shutting down
> IDLE to reset stuff.
>

Hm, you might be able to do something like:

def reload_all():
    for module in sys.__modules__:
        reload(module)

Though I can't swear that this won't trip over *something* or other.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 16 12:50:10 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:50:10 GMT
Subject: Newbie question Python on Windows ME
References: <d136f764.0108160839.3cd24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b7bf8e9.8917437@news.t-online.de>

On 16 Aug 2001 09:39:51 -0700, s.franke at flowstate.com (stefan) wrote:

> Are there any tutorials for beginners on the internet that are
>specifically written for Windows?

For windows I would recommend using the Pythonwin IDE that is part of
www.activestate.com/activepython. [There was I think a standalone
distro of Pythonwin although I don't know of its status]. 

Why? 

- Pythonwin is an excellent GUI ide - on Windows most people don't
like the commandline, and especially on the 9x/ME series the
commandline is seriously lacking in features. It has a builtin editor
with syntax highlighting, folding, etc. It has a nice debugger. It
integrates with SourceSafe etc. 
- Searchable (CHM) Helpfiles 
- ActivePython has much deeper Windows integration. (eg, you can use
COM objects in it, use it for client-side browser scripting and all
sorts of fine stuff)

And yes, its free too :)



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Aug 21 11:06:07 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:06:07 +0300
Subject: Killing httpserver-thread on gui quit
References: <11aed8f9.0108210549.4e617422@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kusnela1wg.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <11aed8f9.0108210549.4e617422 at posting.google.com>,
joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa) writes:

| How can I set up a gui and a httpserver threads.
| When gui's self.quit is executed, 
| httpserver should stop aswell.

[...]

| thread1 = threading.Thread( target=httpd.serve_forever() )

if you don't want to serve forever, don't call serve_forever ;)

do something like...

while not want_quit:
  httpd.handle_request()


  -- erno


From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Wed Aug 29 19:03:11 2001
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 16:03:11 -0700
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998804559.5680.python-list@python.org> <9md62v01ne3@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0108291503.4d211cd6@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<9md62v01ne3 at enews1.newsguy.com>...
> Currying-to-argumentlessness is a frequent enough need
> (since Tk &c all want lots of argumentless callables)
> that one may want to rename 'curry_to_argumentlessness'
> to something more concise and put it in sitecustomize
> or thereabouts.  

How about 'curry_all'?

. . . 'curry_extra_spicy' comes to mind, too, but it is too many characters :-)


Tom


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug  7 00:27:20 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:27:20 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <ot3umtgh3gq64unusn0qf6t0qu4cpibt9a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEOLLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Stephen Horne, to Terry Reedy -- and much the same to everyone else
 who replies]
> ...
> you take that as an opportunity to twist my words
> ...
> After all, you're not the only one to deliberately twist my words.
> ...
> twisting it into a claim
> ...
> twisting my argument
> ...
> no argument that can counter having your words deliberately twisted
> and their meaning ignored.

Let me suggest an alternative:  your words aren't nearly as clear as you
think they are, and, not being telepathic, we can't guess "their meaning"
beyond what you actually write.

One example from your last reply to me, and I'll stop:

[you]
>>>   Discrete integer division makes perfect sense despite the fact
>>>   that specialist fields have outlawed it for specialist reasons
>>>   relating to specialist problems.

[me]
>> Nobody has "outlawed" any meaning for division, "specialist" or
>> otherwise.

[you]
> I didn't say a meaning of division was outlawed - I said that division
> itself was outlawed in certain specialist fields.

Well, the subject of your quoted sentence was "discrete integer division",
and I can't imagine what else the "it" in "outlawed it" could have referred
to.  You would have me *guess* that, to you, "discrete integer division"
means "division itself"?  Or that "it" referred to some unspecified concept
in some other paragraph?  I expect you'd think me deliberately twisting your
words if I ignored what you wrote to guess at some other meaning, but if I
respond to what you actually say then somehow that counts as twisting your
meaning too?

This is common in discussions with you.

You go on:

> An example is field theory, which outlaws division in all fields
> (except those based on modulo arithmetic with a prime base, IIRC)
> because division cannot be a perfect inverse of multiplication in
> such fields. That is the argument I was countering.

Alas, you don't RC:  every field supports division, and simply because the
existence of multiplicative inverses is a fundamental part of what it
*means* to be "a field".  It's not deep, it's how fields are defined (look
it up -- there is only one definition of field that I know of).  Then again,
it's hard to know what you think you're saying there:  you start with "all
fields", then say "except" in a parenthetical comment, then say "such
fields" as if that somehow qualified the earlier "all" (but how?!).

In the end, I have no idea what you're trying to say, because what you
actually *wrote* doesn't make sense.  Perhaps you're countering the argument
that "division itself should be outlawed"?  That's the only sense I can make
of it.  OTOH, that's not an argument anyone is making, so why you would
fritter away your (and our) time opposing it would also be a mystery.

afraid-i've-already-got-several-full-time-jobs-ly y'rs  - tim




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 14 20:45:53 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:45:53 +1000
Subject: simple example of mimelib? and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
In-Reply-To: <3B79B7B0.1F68A15B@ccvcorp.com>
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <3B79B7B0.1F68A15B@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <01081510455304.24255@ike>

On Wednesday 15 August 2001 09:43, Jeff Shannon wrote:
> It is true that the current Python std library, as I've seen it (I work
> with 2.0), doesn't have much high-level support for MIME and email.  I
> haven't looked at the forthcoming Mimelib, yet, however, so I can't answer
> as to how well that package addresses the current weaknesses.  I have,
> however, cobbled together a usable "outbox" utility that allows me to
> easily send email, with MIME attachments, based on text-file contents. 
> It's not all *that* difficult, really.

I've made extensive use of python's mime libraries in several projects. 
There's a bit of an initial learning jump, but once you're there, I've found 
it to be quite good for both reading and writing MIME data. My major gripes 
are:

  1. the documentation for mimetools needs a good, simple example of creating 
a message, like:

    buffer = StringIO.StringIO()
    m = MimeWriter.MimeWriter(buffer)
    m.addheader('Subject', "This is a MIME example")
    m.startmultipartbody('mixed')
    for name, data, type, encoding in data_list:
        sub = m.nextpart()
        sub.addheader('Content-Description', name)
        if encoding == 'base64':
            data = binascii.b2a_base64(data)
            sub.addheader('Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'base64')
        f = sub.startbody(type, [('name', name)])
        f.write(data)
    message = buffer.getvalue()
    smtp = smtplib.SMTP('mail.foo.bar')
    smtp.sendmail('sender at foo.bar', ['recipient at bar.foo'], message)

where data_list is a list of tuples containing:

   . description of the data
   . data to send
   . mime type (eg 'text/plain', 'image/png')
   . encoding of part (eg '', 'base64')

  2. mimetools.Message doesn't currently have a getPart() method to simply 
extract a part from the message object. I've got a simple patch submitted to 
fix this though.

  3. MimeWriter doesn't offer the ability to post to HTTP - it isn't capable 
of producing the Content-Length header. That's going to be hard to fix 
though, in the current file-oriented framework.


       Richard



From zooko at zooko.com  Sat Aug  4 18:53:42 2001
From: zooko at zooko.com (zooko at zooko.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:53:42 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing 
In-Reply-To: Message from Bruce Sass <bsass@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> 
   of "Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:29:16 MDT." <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041317320.23263-100000@bms> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041317320.23263-100000@bms> 
Message-ID: <E15TAIg-0003rW-00@imp.aerie>

I have committed a cleaned up version of the IncreasingTimer which does less
floating point arithmetic and which contains comments showing exactly what 
I don't know about floating point.

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/common/timeutil.py?content-type=text/plain

The relevant excerpt of the source is appended.

Regards,

Zooko


class IncreasingTimer:
    def __init__(self):
        self.lasttime = time.time() # This stores the most recent answer that we returned from `time()'.
        self.delta = 0 # We add this to the result from the underlying `time.time()'.

        # How big of an increment do we need to add in order to make the new float greater than the old float?
        trye = 1.0
        while (self.lasttime + trye) > self.lasttime:
            olde = trye
            trye = trye / 2.0
        self._TIME_EPSILON = olde

    def time(self):
        t = time.time() + self.delta
        lasttime = self.lasttime

        if t <= lasttime:
            self.delta = self.delta + (lasttime - t) + self._TIME_EPSILON
            t = lasttime + self._TIME_EPSILON

        # XXX if you were sure that you could generate a bigger float in one pass, you could change
        # this `while' to an `if' and optimize out a test.
        while t <= lasttime:
            # We can get into here only if self._TIME_EPSILON is too small to make the time float "tick over" to a new higher value.
            # So we (permanently) double self._TIME_EPSILON.
            # XXX is doubling epsilon the best way to quickly get a minimally bigger float?
            self._TIME_EPSILON = self._TIME_EPSILON * 2.0
            # Delta, having smaller magnitude than t, can be incremented by more than t was incremented.  (Up to the old epsilon more.)  That's OK.
            self.delta = self.delta + self._TIME_EPSILON
            t = t + self._TIME_EPSILON

        self.lasttime = t
        return t



From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 18:28:22 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:28:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: bsddb for simple database [very basic]
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oit5s.b5f.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261826330.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 26 Aug 2001, Artur Skura wrote:

> I need very simple database functionality for a weblog.
>
>  [snip]
>
> etc, I will just have standard dictionary pairs, with strings.
> I need records. How do I do that?
>
> Is there a document describing bsddb Python interface in more detail than
> the few words in the documentation?
>
> Regards,
> Artur

>From the bsddb docs:

"Keys and values must be strings, however, so to use other objects as keys or
to store other kinds of objects the user must serialize them somehow,
typically using marshal.dumps or pickle.dumps."

You wanted very simple database functionality, you found it. Anything more
complex is up to you.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 16:49:35 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:49:35 +0200
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <mailman.997904238.12402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9len9p06lu@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Sam Penrose" <sam at ddmweb.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997904238.12402.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> It seems impossible to have a discussion about CGI without bringing up
> performance issues, although almost no one making the comments seems to
> have had an actual performance problem (Alex?). My theory is that this
    ...
> The only people I have ever heard complain about actual Python CGI
> performance limits encountered with production code are those running on
> Windows.

Yep, on Windows -- and not a production system, just a test set-up where
a local client program was generating the hits and measuring (mod_perl
beat CGI perl hands-down, running the same scripts; the script needs a
lengthy login-procedure to another running application, so I strongly
suspect that being on Windows made little real difference -- as to why I
was using perl for the timing tests... don't ask...).

No doubt CGI is just fine for a majority of cases, performance-wise, but
I think it's good to keep alert for cases where each new run of a script
requires a lot of potentially-costly start-up activities.

Much the same reason as, say, not running sshd under inetd: sshd has
a LONG start-up time (must generate keys), so you don't really
want to have to start a fresh run each time somebody's using ssh...
(I'm told it's doable if you're willing to compromise your security by
having sshd use shorter keys -- no first-hand experience, sorry).


Alex





From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Wed Aug 15 00:32:08 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:08 +1000
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
References: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3B79FB48.629301E2@student.gu.edu.au>

root wrote:
> 
> Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
> per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
> I've run into a problem during installation.  My Linux (Linux PPC 2000)
> came packaged with Python 1.5.2 but I thought I'd upgrade to the latest
> version before I got started.  I unpacked the download and followed all
> the instructions in the README (./configure then make) and everything
> seemed to go fine.
> 
> I cannot, however, run Python 2.1.1 using the 'python' terminal command
> and there is no Python man page installed.  Typing 'python' at the
> command prompt brings up the 1.5.2 interpreter.  I can run the 2.1.1
> interpreter by typing the path of the toplevel Python directory and then
> /python (e.g. /home/root/Python-2.1.1/python) but I don't want to have
> to do this every time I start the interpreter and I would also like to
> have the man page installed.
> 
> Could this be an problem with my Linux distribution, perhaps something
> to do with the directory structure?  I only started with Linux a few
> days ago so I'm probably way off - I'm making the transition from Mac OS
> to Linux.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom

As the others have pointed out, you are finding python1.5 before you get
to the python2.1 version. I've installed from an srpm onto  a Mandrake
7.2 version with /usr/bin/python2 as a link to my python2.1 binary,
right beside my python 1.5 install. To do this on your present system,
as superuser:

ln -s /usr/local/bin/python /usr/bin/python2

Now you can choose to invoke python for python1.5 or python2 for
python2.1. I don't recommend overwriting your system python with
python2.1 unless you check out all the dependancies for python and
ensure that they will be supported by python2.1. (Things like pygtk and
pygnome will have to be rebuilt against the python2.1 distribution.)

By rights, python should have installed the man page, but probably under
/usr/local/man rather than /usr/man. If you don't want to fiddle around
with configuring your man paths, I'd suggest you rebuild using the
following:

./configure --prefix=/usr --altinstall
make
But it's a while since I've done it from source, so you may want to
carefully read the INSTALL documents to check things out, and type
./configure --help to get a list of options first.
--prefix ensures that python is installed under /usr instead of
/usr/local
--altinstall (or something similarly sounding) doesn't wipe out your old
python1.5 installation from /usr. (Doing ./configure --prefix=/usr;
make; make install by itself will wipe out python1.5. *grins* Guess how
I found that option out?)

Now you can either type python2.1 or as superuser
ln -s /usr/bin/python2.1 /usr/bin/python2
Leave superuser
python2
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 10:18:45 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:18:45 +0200
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org> <20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <cpg0bay3l5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <1123405.taCxCBeP46@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> schrub:

> We're working on a new site, but it may be a few days -- CNRI's
> backups are so incomplete that we've decided to clone one of the
> mirrors to recover the data.

Is this an indication to change the provider / hoster?

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From wang at rjka.com  Tue Aug 21 11:20:30 2001
From: wang at rjka.com (Huayin Wang)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:20:30 -0500
Subject: how to stop a server (TCPServer, for example)
Message-ID: <002f01c12a54$d1281910$4cc809c0@pckrumm.com>

when I called server.server_forever(), I get the server running, however, I
am having trouble
trying to stop it.  I know I can just kill the process, but then the port
won't be released.

How to make the server clean itself up and exit?
Do I need to implment an exit method for the server?

thanks




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 17:54:15 2001
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:54:15 -0700
Subject: future differences b/w python types and classes
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0108231354.18bc1a55@posting.google.com>

"Classic classes are still a special category in Python 2.2.
Eventually they will be totally unified with types, but because of
additional backwards incompatibilities, this will be done after 2.2 is
released (maybe not before Python 3.0)." - Unifying types and classes
in Python 2.2, The BDFL [http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html]

Having just downloaded 2.2a... I'm still hazy as hell about this
statement... I mean I can't decide what is implied by this 'total
unification' of types and classes. I would be grateful if someone
could please 'predict' what differences (if any) will remain between
what is now known as 'classic classes' and python types. What could be
the practical consequences of this unification?

much appreciation,

Sandy


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug 11 13:10:10 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:10:10 GMT
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com> <9l298d$2kt6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <iipantok6k459k7smpi8lnsv476tmujcnl@4ax.com>

>So...I would try using an array to start with. But,if you find a list is 
>faster (which I'd find a bit surprising ....

Python lists are tail-preallocated vectors. Therefore, adding to the
end of a list occurs in (close to*) amortized constant time.

(*) note that while this statement isn't strictly true, it's as true as it
needs to be. :)

C//



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 14:32:49 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:32:49 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com> <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <tlfqnt84r54idgtstjanugkvhn86tp1qlq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D6351.2B6B2031@ccvcorp.com>

Paul Moore wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:41:12 +0200, "robin and jim" <robinjim at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >You are quite correct (according to my version of the documentation -- and
> >in my experience with using the tool); setUp and tearDown are called for
> >each test so you always start and end from a known state. <wink>
>
> I'd argue that if you want to do setup and teardown actions for each
> individual test, you can code the actions in the test. But there's no way to
> code a setup for a series of tests. For example, in a database application,
> you may want to create a connection in setUp(), run a series of queries in
> tests, and then close the connection in tearDown(). Creating and closing a
> connection per test could well be an unacceptable overhead. To my way of
> thinking, this is the common case (of setup/teardown actions), and should be
> easy to do. Setup and teardown actions which have such a low overhead as to be
> OK to do for each test would seem to be less common. (Indeed, that's how the
> docs describe setUp and tearDown, as high-overhead actions, IIRC.)

Well, the alternative argument could be that, if you don't need to setup and
teardown in between various tests, then they could be coded as subtests of a
single, larger test...  OTOH, if you *do* have high setup/teardown overhead, which
*does* require being redone for each test, then coding it each time would be a
pain.  Lumping subtests together is easier than multiple copies of
setup/teardown...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 22:07:35 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:07:35 -0500
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
In-Reply-To: <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
        <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
        <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
        <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <15242.64743.153374.57888@beluga.mojam.com>

    Mats> Sigh.  I have this problem with my ISP, and affecting only
    Mats> mailman.  Mailman now depends on 2.x Python and since the ISP
    Mats> won't upgrade Python they can't upgrade Mailman.  We're sinking
    Mats> into a hole here...

I just upgraded Mailman from 1.1 to 2.0.6 on a system that is running Python
1.5.2 with no problem.  You don't mention what version you'd like to upgrade
to, but I thought 2.0.6 was pretty current.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From garth_grimm at hp.com  Thu Aug 23 17:11:19 2001
From: garth_grimm at hp.com (Garth Grimm)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:11:19 -0700
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m3rhg$f4p$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

The only issue we've had with this is our scripts that contain both Python
and HTML.  When having translators translate the text of the web page, we
were terrified that they'd do things like open the file in some editor that
would break the indentation of the python pieces.  So we developed a process
where we could ship the HTML text components off in a separate file and then
re-merge the python scripting logic with the HTML pieces that came back.
With source code that wasn't white space sensitive, we might have tried not
setting up the process.

Nevertheless, if the code is expected to have to change hands, I'd certainly
recommend Python over Perl.

--
Garth


"Dave Swegen" <dswegen at allstor-sw.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.998577160.2781.python-list at python.org...
> First of all this is not intended as flame-baiting or trolling. I'm
> genuinly curious about this one weird feature.
>
> I've recently started looking at python, as we are about to implement a
> whole new intranet, and it would seem that basically all web tools that
> are of interest (zope, mason etc) are either perl or python based.
>
> Now, I've done a bit of perl coding, and it does have some neat
> features. However, I feel that there are far too many cases where making
> hard-to-read code is too easy, or things feel tacked on (OOP, for
> instance). That is why I really like what I've seen of Python so far.
>
> However, I (and others here at work) do have some real concerns about
> the indentation feature. Basically we are quite worried about subtle
> but nasty bugs creeping in. Take the following code for instance:
>
> for i in [1234]:
> print i
> print "hello"
>
> Perfectly fine, valid code. But one indentation step wrong, and you end
> up with perfectly fine, valid code that does something else, ie
>
> for i in [1234]:
> print i
> print hello
>
> I imagine that these sort of problems might not only appear due to
> incorrect coding, but also things such as broken mailers, applying
> patches from people using different indent levels etc
>
> So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?
>
> Any points of view much appreciated
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 12:29:27 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:29:27 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.998010206.14252.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7D4666.91E483C9@ccvcorp.com>


moonlite56 at yahoo.com wrote:

> How do you predefine a function? I want to change an image in a
> canvas and update it, but it (of course) comes up the error that the
> canvas is "referenced before assignment." :) I know there's a way to
> predefine the function at the beginning of my program but actually
> define it later on, but I don't know how. Can someone else help?

There's a fairly simple fix to your immediate problem, but there's also a
better way of doing things.  The quick fix first--just make your function
take an argument, instead of trying to reference the global canvas object
before it's created.  Thus:

> from Tkinter import *
> import Image,ImageTk
>
> def changeimage():

def changeimage(mycanvas):

>         cKuti3.delete(myimage)
>         iKuti3 =
> ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/pinkvest.gif"))
>         cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

    cKuti3 = mycanvas.create_image(0, 0, anchor=NW, image=iKuti3)

> top = Tk()

[trimming unchanged code]

> changeimage()

changeimage(cpic)

> top.mainloop()

With those changes, this code should run.  In the longer term, however,
you've still got the problem of using global variables to refer to
everything.  I'd suggest creating a class (MyPicture or whatever),
setting the canvas and various images as attributes of that class, and
make changeimage() and other such functions methods of the class.  This
should make for a much simpler design, especially if your program
continues to grow--it's much more flexible and robust than using a slew
of global variables.

Hope that helps...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 03:33:21 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:33:21 -0500
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <20010831000830.A31220@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus>
        <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>
        <20010828205936.A25413@pulp>
        <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com>
        <20010829151706.A27274@pulp>
        <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com>
        <20010829213051.A27754@pulp>
        <20010830173135.A30182@pulp>
        <15247.8715.290395.28966@beluga.mojam.com>
        <20010831000830.A31220@pulp>
Message-ID: <15247.15809.803604.795504@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Hmmm...  Works for me in 2.1.1:
    ...

    Brandon> You miss understand.  You have to do this in the context of the
    Brandon> embedded environment, ie where it creates an interpreter state
    Brandon> than destroys it before creating another one (ie, like PyApache
    Brandon> does it)

Thanks for clarifying.  You should probably submit a bug report and patch to
Sourceforge if you haven't already done so.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk  Fri Aug 24 03:27:34 2001
From: brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:27:34 +0200
Subject: LaTeX class howto.cls?
References: <c5lbot0ui71f3p720kersloi23cba546ml@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wkzo8px6hl.fsf@mail.afm.dtu.dk>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> writes:

> 
> Can anybody offer me a pointer?

Enclose your googling in double quotes:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22howto.cls%22

giving for instance:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Doc/texinputs/

(Very long url...)

-- 
Brian (remove the sport for mail)
http://www.rk-speed.dk http://fiduso.dk http://sunsite.auc.dk/dk-tug
\TeX, tak


From lorill at caramail.com  Thu Aug 16 22:05:58 2001
From: lorill at caramail.com (Vincent Fiack)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:05:58 +0200
Subject: Predefining Functions help!!!
References: <mailman.998010386.14396.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uuontc2sft82l735er2kj0r8mvpl4t3ia@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:05:41 -0000, moonlite56 at yahoo.com wrote:

>def changeimage():
>        cKuti3.delete(myimage)
>	iKuti3 = 
>ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/pinkvest.gif"))
>	cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

Maybe should you declare cKuti3, iKuty3 and cpic as global ?

--- 
Vincent.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 20:20:44 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:20:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Follow-up: Win32/Posix file locking
In-Reply-To: <t7uqot8n8gjm03r2m03md8kfsjuauchqhu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108292006530.1479-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> -----------------------(begin MutexFile.py)--------------------------
>  ...
> import os
>
> if os.name == 'nt':
>      from winMutexFile import mutexfile
> elif os.name == 'posix':
>      from posixMutexFile import mutexfile
> else:
>     raise ImportError, "MutexFile is not supported on your platform."
>
>
> class MutexFile(mutexfile):
>     pass
> -----------------------(end MutexFile.py)--------------------------

Nice, clean interface. Can't get much better than this.

> ----------------------(begin posixMutexFile.py)----------------------
>  ...
> import os, fcntl
> from time import time
>
> MAXTIME = 8  # number of secs to retry for a lock before timing out

Eight seconds might be a little long for CGI scripts, but it is writable so
that's fine.

> class mutexfile:
>     def __init__(self, filename):
>         if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
>             self.filename = filename
>         else:
>             errmssg = filename + \
> 				" does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
>             raise IOError, errmssg

The only problem I can see here is if a program expects a certain filename and
someone goes and deletes it. You can't plan for every situation though, so
this risk is acceptable.

>     def __del__(self):
>         try:
>             self.unlock()
>         except:
>             pass
>         try:
>             self.f.close()
>         except:
>             pass
>         if hasattr(self, 'fd'):
>             del self.fd

Once mutexfile is deleted, there are no longer any references to fd, so the
del can be dropped.

>     def getReadLock(self):
>         start_time = time()
>         while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
>             try:
>                 self.f = open(self.filename, 'r')
>                 self.fd = self.f.fileno()
>                 fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_SH | fcntl.LOCK_NB)
>                 return 1
>             except:
>                 self.f.close()
>                 del self.fd

Ouch. I would put a short delay in here so that CPU usage doesn't go through
the roof by accident.

>         if not hasattr(self, 'fd'):
>             errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
>             raise IOError, errmssg
>
>     def getWriteLock(self):
>         start_time = time()
>         while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
>             try:
>                 self.f = open(self.filename, 'r+')
>                 self.fd = self.f.fileno()
>                 fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX | fcntl.LOCK_NB)
>                 return 1
>             except:
>                 self.f.close()
>                 del self.fd

As above.

>         if not hasattr(self, 'fd'):
>             errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
>             raise IOError, errmssg
>
>     def unlock(self):
>         fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_UN)
>         self.f.close()
>         del self.fd
>
>     def flock(self, flag):
>          ...
>         if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
>             self.getReadLock()
>         elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
>             self.getWriteLock()
>         elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
>             self.unlock()
>         else:
>             errmssg = "The flag " + flag + \
> 				" is not implemented for flock"
>             raise NotImplementedError, errmssg
> ----------------------(end posixMutexFile.py)----------------------
>
> ----------------------(begin winMutexFile.py)----------------------
>  ...
> import os
> from time import time
>
> try:
>     import win32file
>     from win32con import GENERIC_READ, GENERIC_WRITE,\
>         FILE_SHARE_READ, OPEN_EXISTING, FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL
> except ImportError, e:
>     print e
>     print "winMutexFile.py requires ActiveState.com Python win32
> extensions"

Hmm. I'm thinking that you need some sort of a raise here so that it stops.

> MAXTIME = 8  # number of secs to retry for a lock before timing out
>
> class mutexfile:
>     def __init__(self, filename):
>         if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
>             self.filename = filename
>         else:
>             errmssg = filename + \
> 				" does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
>             raise IOError, errmssg
>
>     def __del__(self):
>         try:
>             self.unlock()
>         except:
>             pass
>         try:
>             self.f.close()
>         except:
>             pass
>         if hasattr(self, 'fd'):
>             del self.fd
>
>     def getReadLock(self):
>         start_time = time()
>         while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
>             try:
>                 self.fd = win32file.CreateFile(self.filename,\
> 											  GENERIC_READ,\
>                                               FILE_SHARE_READ, None,\
> 											  OPEN_EXISTING,\
>                                               FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, 0)

Looks to me like Agent did a bit of a number on this file...

>                 return 1
>             except:
>                 pass

As in the posixMutexFile module, a delay is probably called for here.

>         if not hasattr(self, 'fd'):
>             errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
>             raise IOError, errmssg
>
>     def getWriteLock(self):
>         start_time = time()
>         while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
>             try:
>                 self.fd = win32file.CreateFile(self.filename,\
> 											  GENERIC_READ,\
>                                               0, None, OPEN_EXISTING,\
>                                               FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, 0)
>                 return 1
>             except:
>                 pass

Another delay here.

>         if not hasattr(self,'fd'):
>             errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
>             raise IOError, errmssg
>
>     def unlock(self):
>         win32file.CloseHandle(self.fd)
>         del self.fd
>
>     def flock(self, flag):
>          ...
>         if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
>             self.getReadLock()
>         elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
>             self.getWriteLock()
>         elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
>             self.unlock()
>         else:
>             errmssg = "The flag " + flag + \
> 				" is not implemented for flock"
>             raise NotImplementedError, errmssg
>
> ----------------------(end winMutexFile.py)----------------------

Looks good. Just two other things:

1) I'm wondering if assigning None to fd might be faster than deleting it and
     recreating it.
2) The error messages use string concatenation when using a format string
     might be cleaner.

Other than those few things it looks very good.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 18:33:51 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:33:51 -0700
Subject: Newbie lists question
References: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not>
Message-ID: <3B79A74F.CBEC0A9@ccvcorp.com>


Wolfe Maykut wrote:

> for file in backupdir:
>     filename = string.split(file, '/')[-1]
>     prefix = string.split(filename,'.')[0]

Your dict/list question has already been answered, but I thought I'd throw
in that you'd really be better off using the os.path module here, instead
of string.split--

>>> for file in backupdir:
...     filename = os.path.split(file)[1]  # you only need the filename
component, not the path component
...     prefix = os.path.splitext(filename)[0]  # you only need the root
part, not the extension

While portability may not be an issue for this particular script, it's
really a good idea to be in the habit of using os.path for all your path
manipulations, rather than the usual string functions.  (It's also a good
idea to use string methods instead of the string module, unless you're
targetting older Python installations.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 13:40:17 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:40:17 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998845240.31171.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3sciotomam3i0lbereg6gik3rvjl4l4ifv@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998845240.31171.python-list at python.org>:

:On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:
:
:> I am intending to use this for programs that will access databases.
:> Specifically, CGI scripts using the Berkeley data base hash. The
:> Berkeley Sleepy Cat that I have access to doesn't support concurrent
:> write access. I have to handle the file locking myself.
:
:I'm just curious as to why you're not using a database server for this. Any
:specific reason?

Because I don't have access to one. (Not everyone does, you know.)

In my case, I could spend extra $$$ (on the order of $20 extra per month
over what I'm spending for hosting now) to get a mySQL database, but I
can't do that right now. (Probably some day, I will.)

I looked at Gadfly, but it doesn't support concurrent access, and
requires running a server. I can't have a process running all the time
in the background (as I mentioned in another post that you may not have
seen yet), so running it all the time is out. And starting up the server
every time I want to run a CGI script seems prohibitive (too much time
and CPU usage).

Even if I managed to get access to a database server, there'd be someone
else who wanted to do what I'm doing. It's quite common in CGI scripts.
I'm guessing, because of the frequent references to the fact that Perl
only *appears* to provide cross-platform file locking, that many of the
cgi scripts that are out there don't actually work as the author
intended.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 08:37:14 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:37:14 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141031100.865-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <15224.48600.621401.101492@beluga.mojam.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141031100.865-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15225.7034.183197.921760@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roman> What about threads? What if math.sin changes while in cache?

I added the following to a new Questions section:

Q.  What about threads?  What if math.sin changes while in cache?

A.  I believe the global interpreter lock will protect values from being
    corrupted.  In any case, the situation would be no worse than it is
    today.  If one thread modified math.sin after another thread had
    already executed "LOAD_GLOBAL math", but before it executed
    "LOAD_ATTR sin", the client thread would see the old value of
    math.sin. 

    The idea is this.  I will use a multi-attribute load as an example,
    not because it would happen very often, but because by demonstrating
    the recursive nature with an extra call hopefully it will become
    clearer what I have in mind.  Suppose a function defined in module
    foo wants to access spam.eggs.ham and that spam is a module imported
    at the module level in foo:

        import spam
        ...
        def somefunc():
            ...
            x = spam.eggs.ham

    Upon entry to somefunc, a TRACK_GLOBAL instruction will be executed:

        TRACK_GLOBAL spam.eggs.ham &4

    "spam.eggs.ham" is a string literal stored in the function's
    constants array. "&4" is a reference to a slot in the executing
    frame's fast locals array.  Here's what I envision happening:

    1. The TRACK_GLOBAL instruction locates the object referred to by
       the name "spam" and finds it in its global scope.  It then
       executes a C function like

           _PyObject_TrackName(m, "spam.eggs.ham", &4)

       where "m" is the module object

    2. The module object strips the leading "spam." stores the necessary
       information ("eggs.ham" and &4) in case its binding for the name
       "eggs" changes.  It then locates the next name in its dict, in
       this case "eggs", and recursively calls

           _PyObject_TrackName(eggs, "eggs.ham", &4)

    3. The eggs object strips the leading "eggs.", stores the ("ham",
       &4) info, locates the object in its namespace called "ham" and
       calls _PyObject_TrackName once again:

           _PyObject_TrackName(ham, "ham", &4)

    4. The "ham" object strips the leading string (no "." this time, but
       that's a minor point), sees that the result is empty, then uses
       its own value (self, probably) to update the location it was
       handed:

           Py_XDECREF(&4);
           &4 = self;
           Py_INCREF(&4);

    Now, at this point, each object involved in resolving
    "spam.eggs.ham" knows which entry in its namespace needs to be
    tracked and what location to update if that name changes.
    Furthermore, if the one name it is tracking in its local storage
    changes, it can call _PyObject_TrackName using the new object once
    the change has been made.  At the bottom end of the food chain, the
    last object will always strip a name, see the empty string and know
    that its value should be stuffed into the location it's been passed.

    When the object referred to by the dotted expression "spam.eggs.ham"
    is going to go out of scope, "UNTRACK_GLOBAL spam.eggs.ham &4" is
    executed.  It has the effect of causing each object in the chain to
    delete its tracking information and recursively call its subsidiary
    object to do the same.

    The tracking operation may seem expensive, but recall that the
    objects being tracked are assumed to be "almost constant", so the
    setup cost will be traded off against hopefully multiple local
    instead of global loads.  For globals with attributes the tracking
    setup cost grows but is offset by avoiding the extra LOAD_ATTR cost.
    The TRACK_GLOBAL instruction needs to perform a PyDict_GetItemString
    for the first name in the chain to determine where the top-level
    object resides.  Each object in the chain has to store a string and
    an address somewhere, probably in a dict that uses storage locations
    as keys (e.g. the &4) and strings as values.  (This dict could
    possibly be a central dict of dicts whose keys are object addresses
    instead of a per-object dict.)  It shouldn't be the other way around
    because multiple active frames may want to track "spam.eggs.ham",
    but only one frame will want to associate that name with one of its
    fast locals slots.

Let me know if that doesn't address your concerns.

Skip



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 23:06:21 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:06:21 -0700
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998790578.9547.python-list@python.org> <7x4rqt8z2d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b8a7be2.606820451@wa.news.verio.net> <7xpu9hter1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b8b003e.640704163@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <7xsnecyjbm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) writes:
> Maybe this?
> 
> >>> dis.dis(compile(`long('123' '456')`, '', 'eval'))
>           0 SET_LINENO               0
>           3 LOAD_CONST               0 (123456L)
>           6 RETURN_VALUE

Wow!  Thanks.  I think I'll just use long('123' '456') unless I really
run out of memory.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 26 02:06:24 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:06:24 -0400
Subject: Text Formating in Python
References: <1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8891E0.221B4CF0@engcorp.com>

Lee Hulbert wrote:
> 
> Is there a simple way to format a text string before printing to the
> screen?
> 
> Specifically, I have a list of 80 numbers, and I want to print the
> list, with each number a different color if it is positive, negative,
> or 0.

This is a platform-dependent issue.  You need to specify which 
platform you are using (operating system? windowed or console? etc.)
before anyone can answer this with any certainty.

However, in general you could consider changing the color of output
to be something that follows this general pattern:

 control-sequence1 actual-output control-sequence2

The first sequence changes the color to the one you want for the
output, then comes the output itself, then comes another 
sequence to return the color to the normal one.  Optionally you
can skip the latter until the very end, if you are going to output
color control sequences before _every_ number.

With this in mind, it wouldn't be at all difficult to write
a routine which colorizes numeric output based on a simple
analysis of its value.

But I think you are not asking that question, but rather
you are on a specific platform and just want to know how
to control the output color... ?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 31 23:59:41 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:59:41 -0400
Subject: how to distinguish a python expression from a statement?
References: <mailman.999301681.6416.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B905D2D.5D0078FA@engcorp.com>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
> I have a string, inputText, which is a fragment of python code plucked from
> a text control in a GUI.  If the value of inputText  is an expression then
> I will do "result = eval(inputText,globalsDict,localsDict)" and show result
> in the GUI.  If it is a statement, I will do "exec inputText in
> globalsDict, localsDict" (and I know about redirecting sys.stdout while
> doing either).
> 
> I have all of this working except that I don't know how to distinguish
> between expressions and statements (without making the end user push one of
> two different buttons in order to tell me -- yuk).  I am using Jython and
> so the parser module is not available (so I can't use parser.isexpr).
> 
> Is there any means to accomplish this what-I-had-thought-would-be-routine
> task short of writing a Python parser?

This might give you some ideas:

>>> def f(str):
...     try:
...         result = eval(str)
...     except SyntaxError:
...         exec str
...         result = None
...     return result
...
>>> f('5*5')
25
>>> f('print "hi"')
hi
>>>

On the other hand, as some kind soul showed me when I asked
a related question a while back, there are also the modules
'codeop' and 'code', which probably already have want you 
need...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From paul at boddie.net  Mon Aug 20 09:20:06 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 06:20:06 -0700
Subject: automating word 2000
References: <2Kbf7.769$5N2.215075@news1.iquest.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108200520.2626acde@posting.google.com>

"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message news:<2Kbf7.769$5N2.215075 at news1.iquest.net>...
> i have an application that generates MS Word documents.  the generating part
> works fine.  the trouble is that often while one document is being written a
> second one will be started.  when this happens, the second document becomes
> the default, both automating processes only write to the default one making
> for a big mess (one document with stuff in it from two controlling
> programs).

I have heard that Word's automation interface (or whatever you want to
call it) won't permit the isolation you require, at least for Word 97.
So, perhaps a queuing system is the order of the day for what you are
trying to achieve.

Paul


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Aug 22 23:19:04 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:19:04 +1000
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EFB@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Paul Rubin [mailto:phr-n2001 at nightsong.com]
> "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> writes:
> > I believe another major reason is that adding "real" GC 
> would cause problems
> > for C extensions. All Python's cycle collector does is 
> break the links
> > forming the cycle - the reference counting semantics then 
> handle the rest.

> Actually, conventional GC is simpler for C extensions since the C
> extensions for the most part don't have to think about the GC.
> In the current situation we see a lot of reference counting bugs
> in C extensions.

That depends on the GC implementation of course. Any implementation which
moves memory would cause *major* problems for C extensions.

> > Java has a "real" GC - and this often leads to problems - 
> in particular,
> > programs being relatively fast until a memory threshold is 
> reached - and
> > then the GC starts kicking in and things really start 
> slowing down in a
> > non-deterministic way. 
> 
> That's all a matter of how the GC is implemented.  There are certainly
> realtime GC algorithms that have been used in some Lisp and 
> Java systems.

Very true - however, there are very few deterministic garbage collectors
around (any?). There are a few more time-bounded collectors (what you are
referring to as a realime GC system) which guarantee that they will return
control within a set period of time.

All GC implementations have major tradeoffs - these usually involve being
non-deterministic, prone to "clumping" or having much higher memory
requirements (choose at least 2). Generational collectors go some way to
avoiding the "clumping" effect, time-bound collectors go much further
towards this goal. Interruptible collectors may find themselves attempting
to collect the same piece of garbage many times over if the system is
particularly busy. Copy collectors suffer from extreme memory overhead.
Conservative M&S will likely miss some garbage, non-conservative is much
less likely to, but usually take longer.

One of the major problems with *all* non-reference-counting GC systems is
that the point when you need GC to be working best is when it starts working
worst. When a system becomes busy, with rapid allocations and deallocations
of memory, there tends to be less time to perform garbage collection.

Python's reference counting GC implementation seems to me a good tradeoff -
some slowdown (but in a deterministic manner), some memory overhead
(constant per object). It does suffer somewhat from clumping, but no more
than objects allocated on the stack in C++ when they go out of scope.

> I guess that might be the case, at least with the current body of
> Python programs.  I'm thinking of Python's implementation in terms of
> whether it's suitable for large, long-running programs, and it's
> not clear whether anyone really writes those in Python.

It depends entirely on the requirements of the system. However, I would bet
on Python's memory management for large, long-running programs over any of
the garbage collectors in common usage today - it is less likely to suffer
as the system gets bigger.

> The combination of RC and GC (or cycle breaking) that's been described
> here sounds like a pretty good approach.  It wasn't described in the
> Python docs that I read, which described a pure RC system, but that's
> ok :).

Tim Delaney



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Aug 30 10:17:30 2001
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:17:30 +0200
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
References: <9mk7ur$hbv$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.15f8696954df68f4989686@news.easynews.net>

In article <9mk7ur$hbv$1 at mail.cn99.com>, formalin14 at email.com.cn says...
> How to make UEdit support python?

Add this to your wordfile

/L10"Python" Line Comment = #  Escape Char = \ File Extensions = PY PYC
/Indent Strings = ":"
/Function String = "%[ ,^t]++def[ ]+^([a-zA-Z0-9_]+[ ,^t]++([a-zA-Z0-
9_,="' ]++)^):"
/Delimiters = []{}()<>="'.,:+ 	
/C1"Reserved Words"
and assert
break
class continue
def del
elif else except exec
finally for from
global
if import in is
lambda
map
not 
None
or  
pass print
raise range return
try
while
/C2"Built-in Functions"
abs apply
callable chr cmp coerce compile complex
delattr dir divmod
eval execfile
filter float
getattr globals group
hasattr hash hex
id input int intern isinstance issubclass
joinfields
len list local long
max min match
oct open ord
pow
raw_input reduce reload repr round
search setattr slice str splitfields
tuple type
vars
xrange
__import__ 
/C3"__Methods__"
__abs__ __add__ __and__
__call__ __cmp__ __coerce__ 
__del__ __delattr__ __delitem__ __delslice__ __div__ __divmod__
__float__
__getattr__ __getitem__ __getslice__
__hash__ __hex__
__invert__ __int__ __init__
__len__ __long__ __lshift__
__mod__ __mul__
__neg__ __nonzero__
__oct__ __or__
__pos__ __pow__
__radd__ __rdiv__ __rdivmod__ __rmod__ __rpow__ __rlshift__ __rrshift__ 
__rshift__ __rsub__ __rmul__ __repr__
__rand__ __rxor__ __ror__
__setattr__ __setitem__ __setslice__ __str__ __sub__
__xor__
/C4"__Attributes__"
__bases__
__class__
__dict__
__methods__ __members__
__name__
__version__
/C5"Exceptions"
ArithmeticError AssertionError AttributeError
EOFError Exception
FloatingPointError
IOError ImportError IndexError
KeyError KeyboardInterrupt
LookupError
MemoryError
NameError
OverflowError
RuntimeError
StandardError SyntaxError SystemError SystemExit
TypeError
ValueError
ZeroDivisionError
/C6"Common Libs"
AST
BaseHTTPServer Bastion
cmd commands compileall copy 
CGIHTTPServer Complex
dbhash dircmp dis dospath dumbdbm
emacs
find fmt fnmatch ftplib
getopt glob gopherlib grep
htmllib httplib
ihooks imghdr 
linecache lockfile 
macpath macurl2path mailbox mailcap
mimetools mimify mutex math 
Mimewriter
newdir ni nntplib ntpath nturl2path
os ospath
pdb pickle pipes poly popen2 posixfile posixpath profile pstats pyclbr 
Para
quopri 
Queue
rand random regex regsub rfc822 
sched sgmllib shelve site sndhdr string sys snmp 
SimpleHTTPServer StringIO SocketServer 
tb tempfile toaiff token tokenize traceback tty types tzparse 
Tkinter
urllib urlparse util uu 
UserDict UserList
wave whatsound whichdb whrandom
xdrlib
zmod
/C7"Others"
array
fnmatch
struct self


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 28 01:34:14 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:34:14 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <15242.31823.671530.372011@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108280927351.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Roman> How people compile Python 2.1.1 from src.rpm on not-so-ancient
>     Roman> RedHat 6.2 (without tricks)???
> 
> Checked into CVS is a slight modification of setup.py that may help you
> compile on a system with potentially multiple versions of libdb.  Attached
> is a context diff.  Feedback on whether or not this helps people would be
> appreciated.

he-he. I have 1.5.2 with no Distutils. To use setup.py I need to
install them first... Luckily, I already have RPM v4 enabled RPM.
(It was fun to find rpm v3 rpm package to install new rpm :-)

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From maxm at normik.dk  Thu Aug 30 04:20:46 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:20:46 +0200
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197E19@exchange>

This will take you most of the way ...

Just put it into your WORDFILE.TXT in you uedit directory.

Though I would recommend using "PythonWin" from activestate as your editor.
It's much nicer far this particular task. (Said from someone who uses uedit
excessively.)

/L7"Python" Line Comment = # Block Comment On = """ Block Comment Off = """
Escape Char = \ File Extensions = PY
/Delimiters = ~!@$%^&*()+=|\/{}[]:;"'<> 	,.?/
/Indent Strings = ":"
/Function String = "%[ ^t]++def*:"
/C1"Keywords"
and assert
break
class continue
def del
elif else except exec
finally for from
global
if import in is
lambda
not
or
pass print
raise return
try
while


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Formalin [mailto:formalin14 at email.com.cn]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 7:21 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
> 
> 
> How to make UEdit support python?
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 09:48:57 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:48:57 +0200
Subject: Using exec
References: <mailman.999087493.19688.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mirs901eos@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Kerim Borchaev" <warkid at storm.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.999087493.19688.python-list at python.org...
> I need to reference an object's method given a string representation
> of it's name. Now I do it like this:
>
> exec( "c."+MethonName+"()" )

Use:
    getattr(c,MethonName)()

> or if I need to create an instance of class named ClassName I do this:
>
> exec( "inst="+ClassName+"()" )

This, of course, is totally different - you have an unqualified
name (and don't even know if it's a local or global name...?)
rather than the name of an attribute.

If you knew the name was global,
    inst = globals()[ClassName]()
would work; if you knew the name was local,
    inst = locals()[ClassName]()
would be OK.  But if you don't, it's rather a bother to try
both, as in:
    try: classobj = locals()[ClassName]
    except KeyError: classobj = globals()[ClassName]
    inst = classobj()
so it's understandable that one would take a shortcut:
    inst = eval(ClassName)()

However, the real underying question is, *WHY* do you have
to deal with the bother of recovering the class object (to
be called) from the classname -- why isn't the class object
itself passed instead of its name in the first place?  Using
object references directly is SO much handier & faster!


> but it seems ugly to me.

I fully agree -- it's downright ugly.  exec is particularly
horrible -- good thing eval exists, because it's far more
often needed than exec.  But by far most often one needs
neither, just by being careful to focus on the objects (the
real things) rather than their names (a transient accident).


Alex





From payou at free.fr  Fri Aug 10 04:11:55 2001
From: payou at free.fr (Alexandre Perrin)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:11:55 GMT
Subject: Problems with Threads
References: <mailman.997216332.2935.python-list@python.org> <9kv0fi$ft4$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fHMc7.1801$vY7.807999@nnrp6.proxad.net>

Hello,

I had the same problem recently... In fact, it mainly depends on the kind of
thread you are using.
I'm using Windows and I know that Win32 threads are incompatible with Python
(because the Python API is single-threaded), but I heard that POSIX threads
work fine.

Anyway, there is a solution to your problem. Instead of creating your thread
in C, you can create a Python thread BEFORE calling your C function. This
works fine because Python threads are safe.

Payou.

PS: I also noticed that the different interpreter (Python Idle and
Pythonwin) are using threads differently...

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
9kv0fi$ft4$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <mailman.997216332.2935.python-list at python.org>,
> superfix <superfix at bol.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >Hello guys. I have been some problems with threads in
> >python/c. Let me try explanation this:
> > - I have an interface write in python for c
> > - In this interface I call a module write in c
> > - In this module I call glutmainloop, otherwise,
> >the program enters in loop to refresh the opengl
> >aplication.
> >
> >So, I need to return to python interpreter. otherwise, I need to keep
> >two aplications in my program: python window and opengl window. Note: I
> >need to keep the terminal active together opengl.
> >
> > /*Api*/
> > include <module.c>
> > . . . . . . .
> > static PyObject *agg_CreatAgent(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> > {
> > int x;
> >    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &x)
> > return NULL;
> >
> > Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
> > open_function(x, "filename");
> >  Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
> >
> > Py_INCREF(Py_None);
> >    return Py_None;
> > }
> >
> >Effect. Python simply call the open_function and fall in loop. How I
> >can return the control to the python and keep this thread active?  Any
> >thoughts?
>
> What's this thread supposed to do?  It sounds to me like you need to
> clarify your application logic.
> --
>                       --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)
>
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista
>
> "i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"
>




From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 14:47:40 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:47:40 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net>

This site about tkinter really sucks!
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-tkinter.htm
look what they say:
# File: hello1.py

from Tkinter import *
>>>>>> error!!!!!!!!! this filke does not exists it has to be _tkinter

root = Tk()

>>>>>>>>> error!!! methode not found

w = Label(root, text="Hello, world!")
>>>>>>>. error, label not defined. .....
w.pack()

root.mainloop()
"jeroen paul goudsmit" <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> schreef in bericht
news:auLj7.10$j9.166 at castor.casema.net...
> just a gui for windows...
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> schreef in bericht
> news:slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> > In article <0RGj7.12$pD3.125 at pollux.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit
> wrote:
> >
> > > HOW!?!?!?!?
> >
> > Well, the "default" GUI package for Python is Tk.
> >
> > Get a copy of "Python and Tkinter Programming" by John E.
> > Grayson.  Read it.  Excellent book.
> >
> >   Loot at http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/
> >
> > Or, more specifically, read "An Introduction to Tkinter" by
> > Fredrik Lundh:
> >
> >   http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
> >
> > If you want to try other toolkits besides Tk, there are Python
> > bindings for wxwindows, gtk, Qt, Win32, etc.  See question 4.13
> > in the FAQ at
> >
> >   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html
> >
> > What widget set do you prefer?
> >
> > --
> > Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  This MUST be a
> good
> >                                   at               party -- My RIB CAGE
is
> >                                visi.com            being painfully
pressed
> up
> >                                                    against someone's
> MARTINI!!
>
>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 04:09:06 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:09:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to access DBASE-Files?
In-Reply-To: <9mcrqb$9u3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270359270.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, G. V?lkl wrote:

> Hi everybody!
>
> I have to read und write DBASE-Files, but don't want to use ODBC ( error by
> writing).
> How is it possible?
>
> Thanks
> Best Regards
>             Gerhard

Read AND write? Oh man. That's punishment. There are several modules at the
Vaults that can read DBF files, but as for writing them, well, be ABSOLUTELY
sure that you want to do that instead of using a much simpler format such as
CSV.

There are little-to-no components that can actually write them, simply because
it's such a disgusting job. I've written code to do so before, so I know what
I'm talking about. Unfortunately it's of little use to you because 1) it's
written in PHP, not Python, and 2) it's not actually mine anymore :)

What I CAN give you is the URL of the reference I used:

  http://www.e-bachmann.dk/docs/xbase.htm

There is more detail about every single DBF format (and affiliated formats) in
existence there than you could ever want or need.

The only other tip I can give you is to get a good hex editor so you can get
real close and personal with your output.

Have fun :)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug  4 15:22:41 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:22:41 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
In-Reply-To: <9khc3c$qje$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108042312220.17307-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, whats_really_hot wrote:

>still I have some unanswered questions because of my stupidity or book's
>incapability of explaining everything in an understanding manner. So, now I
>begin a series of query-posts (which I hope that they won't be many, because
>then I will be proved stupid enough to be flammed).
>
>My first questions are:
>
>1. The interactive command line is really a module with the name "__main__".

No. Any top-level program is __main__. It just happened that
with command-line you type a program and it happens to be toplevel.
I think you can read Python Language Reference (chapter 8):

     * 8. Top-level components
          + 8.1 Complete Python programs
          + 8.2 File input
          + 8.3 Interactive input
          + 8.4 Expression input

to get understanding of this.

>The command dir() also, return the names of the current namespace of the
>respective active module. Among these (i.e. names) is always the "__name__"
>name, which is the name of the current module. So, why when I type dir() in
>the interactive command line "__name__" is returned in spite of  "__main__",


>>> __name__
'__main__'

There is nothing wrong. "__main__" is a value of __name__ of current
module. dir() gives you names


>>> help('dir')
Help on built-in function dir:

dir(...)
    dir([object]) -> list of strings

    Return an alphabetized list of names comprising (some of) the
attributes
    of the given object.  Without an argument, the names in the current
scope
    are listed.  With an instance argument, only the instance attributes
are
    returned.  With a class argument, attributes of the base class are not
    returned.  For other types or arguments, this may list members or
methods.

>which is indeed the name of the current module, i.e. the interactive command
>line?
>2. What does the command "cat" do? I suspect that it begins the creation of
>a new module, right?

In what context? cat is UNIX command

NAME
       cat - concatenate files and print on the standard output


So

$ cat <<EOMODULE > module.py
> print 2*2
> EOMODULE

indeed creates a module ;-) if you are using UNIX. Let see what is
inside the file module.py:

$ cat module.py
print 2*2
$ man cat
...

>Thanks for ur time and attention, because I admit that this is a huge post.
>Anyway, I look forward to ur answers and prepare for my impending questions
>in other posts.

Probably you have not seen huge posts...

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 04, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Experience: a name everyone gives to his mistakes." _/




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 21 12:42:55 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:42:55 +0200
Subject: CygWin .pyd oddities
References: <slrn9o51i7.ah.m-turk@dhcp101054.res-hall.nwu.edu>
Message-ID: <f23ul9.vu.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 21 Aug 2001 16:00:06 GMT, Matthew Turk <m-turk at nwu.edu> wrote:
>[...]
>I would like to know if there's a method of
>debugging a C extension in python.

This is what I have done recently:
- write a setup.py file for the extension
- python setup.py build --debug [--compiler=mingw32]
- gdb /path/to/python/python.exe
- run
- import and run the test module

gdb then stops at the point where the extension module crashed and you can
inspect callstack, local variables and all the rest. "gdb" calls a nice GUI
debugger on Cygwin btw.

HTH,

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 21 20:34:55 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:34:55 -0700
Subject: input of data from keyboard
References: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9luv0k$b2d9h$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

>>> print raw_input.__doc__
raw_input([prompt]) -> string

Read a string from standard input.  The trailing newline is stripped.
If the user hits EOF (Unix: Ctl-D, Windows: Ctl-Z+Return), raise EOFError.
On Unix, GNU readline is used if enabled.  The prompt string, if given,
is printed without a trailing newline before reading.


>>> name = raw_input("Enter your name: ")
Enter your name: Emile
>>> name
'Emile'
>>>

HTH
--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:9lusqh$bamlt$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de...
> Hi,
>   what function can I use to get input from the keyboard (or stdin)?
>
> TIA
> --
> --
> Rajarshi Guha



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:17:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:17:41 +0200
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Henrik Ekelund" <henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85 at posting.google.com...
> We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
> C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
> working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
> work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
> lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?

I have some such experience, but never on such a scale (I think
the 10K lines of Python will translate to roughly 80K-100K lines of
C++, assuming you use *decent* C++ compilers and libraries,
such as gcc 3.0 and Boost, cfr. www.boost.org).  First, ensure all
the underlying libraries you're using (GUI toolkit, network stuff,
databases, etc, etc) are available, OK for your use, etc -- say
there's no trouble there (e.g., if you have wxPython GUI's on
the Python side, you can I think expect no trouble moving to the
wxWindows equivalents on the C++ side).  Remember that you
will often want to translate a plain Python function or class to
a C++ template, which is reasonably straightforward -- this
will greatly ease many translations of signature-based polymorphism,
which is crucial in Python and also underlies C++ templates.  So
if your C++ compiler has trouble with templates, the task is MUCH
harder -- consider using a better front-end in this case, such as
Comeau C++, it's cheap and it does templates right (make sure
you get Dinkumware's Standard C++ library for Comeau C++, as
Comeau's own std library isn't mature and production-quality yet).

Cross-platform is always hard, but much harder in C++ than in
Python, so, if you need to deliver *portable* C++, that is most
definitely something to keep in mind.  If this is the case, try at
least to make sure you're using the SAME C++ compiler (and
underlying platforms, e.g. for GUI and dabase -- wxWindows IS
good...) on all the platforms -- gcc 3.0, or maybe Comeau.

Presumably, your 10,000 lines of working Python code are
accompanied by another 10K or so lines of test harness and
unit-tests.  This is the best aspect of your predicament, as
you don't need (unless you work on a very strange contract)
to translate and deliver the C++ equivalent of the *test* code
too, but you still get the benefit of the test code to ease your
porting to C++!

Specifically, you can work a component (package, related
family of modules, etc) at a time, translating it to C++
templates (and sometimes non-templated classes and
functions); then you dress the translated component up
in Boost Python, put a tiny Python wrapper on it if need
be to ensure it has the same interface as the starting
Python code, and run all of the test-suite.  When that
component passes both unit-tests AND the system passes
acceptance tests equally well with that component in the
original Python version OR the Python-wrapped C++
version, you move on to the next component.  Any time
you find any problem, be sure to add the test causing that
problem to the suite you run and re-run every time!

If you've finessed successfully all other issues I mentioned,
this process will give you very good speed in the process
of translation -- this is what I've observed on smaller
systems (the 'decency' of the target compiler being iffy,
as it's MVC++, but, using it with Boost, ATL, &c, it's not
too bad after all).  Producing 5000 lines of solid, working,
tested and documented C++ from scratch is typically a
job of about 20 to 30 ideal-engineering-hours for a well
matched 2-person team (pairwise-programming is good
for this task, btw).  Translating about 500 to 700 lines
of Python into those 5000 lines of C++, with the same
adjectives applying, should be about 8 to 10 ideal-
engineering-hours.  I *think* (but, I have no first-hand
experience!) that the translation job will scale MUCH
closer to linearly than the writing-from-scratch would,
so your 10,000 lines of Python, while not just 20 times
as much as 500 lines would, should, I believe, take _not
much more_ than 20 times longer (again in terms of
ideal engineering hours -- I hope you're familiar with
this concept and the related one of 'velocity'). All this
is assuming you successfully finesse the issues related
above, plus one key extra one.  Hmm, make that two.

The key extra issue is, of course, memory management.
You're unlikely to have rigid ownership of objects in your
Python code, and assigning such ownership is going to
be a bear.  I would suggest you implement reference
counting as part of your porting-infrastructure, and
have everybody access the C++ objects through a smart
pointer (or smart-proxy) dealing with the reference counts.
That's not going to give you top-notch performance on
the first C++ version, but you can tune that later if
need be -- main thing is to get it working right, and
you can't afford leaks or crashes due to double-free's,
use-after-free, etc... any such thing, and your time
budget goes to hash.

The OTHER key issue is, peopleware.  You need at least
one super-duper-C++-guru in any project that's
going to produce tens of thousands of lines of good
C++ code, AND good to very good C++ competence
in every participating programmer.  If they start from
scratch, budget *MONTHS* for that -- and make sure
you do retain one C++ guru consultant for _at least_
10 hours a week throughout the project if you don't
have one in-house.  How to evaluate if a consultant
IS a C++ guru -- well -- word of mouth is always most
reliable, but I'd suggest trying to gather several good
indicators.  E.g, have him/her estimate this job: if the
estimate is within 20% of what I've given, good, but
if s/he estimates half the time I've suggested, s/he's a
quack (s/he's never done industrial-strength, industrial-
size C++ projects yet s/he's trying to pass him/herself
off as an expert in them...:-).


Best of luck!

Alex (Brainbench MVP for C++)





From thomas at xs4all.net  Sun Aug  5 11:26:29 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:26:29 +0200
Subject: pydoc&readline Re: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051053000.2450-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051053000.2450-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20010805172629.N626@xs4all.nl>

On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:54:10AM +0400, Roman Suzi wrote:

> >I have this in my PYTHONSTARTUP file.  Pydoc is pretty damn cool.

> It could be even cooler if it supported readline!

Why/how do you want pydoc to support readline ? Isn't it enough that the
interpreter supports readline ?

import readline,rlcompleter
readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")


-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Tue Aug 21 20:29:12 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:29:12 +1000
Subject: Pythonwin does not run on my machine 
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010822002912Z-52306@emi1.EMI>

Hi,

I had installed python21 and I have no problem running the Python.exe 
but PythonW.exe(Pythonwin) does not run at all.
Am I missing out something ?? My computer is window NT

Thanks in advance,
Kim,





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 10:54:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:54:23 +0200
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com> <1rzo8yn4e0.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <9ljgdm023oi@enews2.newsguy.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:1rzo8yn4e0.fsf at video.bsd.uchicago.edu...
>
> Thanks for the test class; that was a good idea.  There is something
> unusual about my date class in that it is a C++ date class that I use
> a lot that I am exporting as a python extension using boost::python.
    ...
> Has anyone experienced such weirdness with extension modules or
> anything else before???

Yes, but not with Boost Python -- generally such weirdness results
from wrong reference count handling in the extension (addref/decref
not correctly matched) and Boost Python in my experience handles
those for you smoothly and without errors.  Strange...


Alex





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Aug  8 01:04:08 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 01:04:08 -0400
Subject: Linked lists
Message-ID: <IhMc7kKkXEcc092yn@bellatlantic.net>                

|You can't? It's clear enough. The average person doesn't dump thousands
|of items into a link list. That's what it takes in order for Python to "see" the
|O(1) complexity benefits that linked lists offer.

My admiration of Python lists has increased even futher today.  Like
most naive programmers (naive still after a couple decades of
programming), I figured that Python lists couldn't possibly be a very
good data structure if "insert in the middle" is a common operation.
After all, one has to copy all the tail elements over a position for
every insert, which makes the insertion O(N).  A linked list can save
all the copy operations.

With that in mind, I tried a little test:

--------------
import time, sys

class LinkedList: ... # below

if __name__ == '__main__':
    LOOPS = int(sys.argv[1])
    start = time.time()
    lst = []
    for i in xrange(LOOPS):
        mid = i/2
        lst = lst[:mid] + [None] + lst[mid:]
    end = time.time()
    print "%d Python concatenations in %5.2f seconds" % (LOOPS, end-start)

    start = time.time()
    lst = []
    for i in xrange(LOOPS):
        mid = i/2
        new = lst[:mid]
        new.append(None)
        new.extend(lst[mid:])
        lst = new
    end = time.time()
    print "%d Python List inserts in %5.2f seconds" % (LOOPS, end-start)

    start = time.time()
    lst = LinkedList(1)
    for i in xrange(LOOPS):
        mid = i/2
        lst[mid] = None
    end = time.time()
    print "%d LinkedList inserts in %5.2f seconds" % (LOOPS, end-start)
--------------

The first two loops are basically the same, and just use Python lists and
slices in some obvious ways.  The first approach seemed like the "obvious" way
to do it, but it turns out to be noticably worse than the second way.  But how
much worse seems close to a constant multiple, or maybe a very low complexity
order difference.

The third loop does absolutely terrible for the test case.  The problem, of
course, is that insertion is O(1), but walking to the correct position for
insertion is still O(N).  Of course, if finding the insertion position is
cheap, so is the overall loop.  For example, substituting 'mid=0' or 'mid=i' in
the above loops has little effect on the first two loops, but makes the
LinkedList loop almost free.

With that, my quick LinkedList code.  It is pure Python, which is most of what
makes it very slow.  But the overall complexity issues would apply to an
extension module.  If there is anything I am missing in making my class
efficient, I would not be surprised, and would be interested to learn it.
Obviously, only a few of the interesting methods are implemented (__getslice__
and others would be worth adding if the class was worth having in the first
place).

--------------
class LinkedList:
    def __init__(self, *items):
        self.links = []
        self.pos = 0
        self.current = self.links
        for item in items:
            self.current.extend([item,[]])
            self.current = self.current[1]
        self.current = self.links
        self.val = self.links[0]

    def next(self):
        self.pos += 1
        self.current = self.current[1]
        self.val = self.current[0]
        return self.val

    def start(self):
        self.pos = 0
        self.current = self.links

    def __getitem__(self, index):
        if self.pos > index:
            self.pos = 0
            self.current = self.links
        for i in xrange(self.pos, index):
            self.next()
        return self.val

    def __setitem__(self, index, val):
        self.__getitem__(index)
        self.current[1] = self.current[:]
        self.current[0] = val
        self.pos += 1
--------------

Yours, Lulu...



From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug  5 16:48:25 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:48:25 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <nGfb7.73145$EP6.17247175@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <kr5rmtsh1gl6api2u3nks4p38q3n9sqsav@4ax.com>

On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:49:07 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
wrote:

I stated this all elsewhere, but I suppose it won't hurt once more.

>"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67 at 4ax.com...

>StatusQuo Viewpoint: Integers are algebraically distinct from
>rationals/reals and all operations thereon should produce an integer.
>/ is a convenient abbreviation for divmod[0].  (Counterpoint: // is
>almost as convenient.)

Convenience for new code is not the issue. The old code is already
written, and there is a lot of it.

>Change Viewpoint: Ints are embedded subset of floats, included
>separately for efficiency reasons.  Numerical expressions should give
>numerically equivalent answers when fed numerically equivalent inputs.
>(Do you really disagree that this is desirable?).  They do not now
>when / is used (and thus current / is design mistake).  They will in
>the future when either / or // is used.

Mathematicians are quite happy with the concept that working in the
domain of integers is different to working in the domain of reals. It
is not an efficiency consideration, they are fundamentally different
domains. In mathematics, the same notation with the same arguments
gives a different result depending on the context. In Python today, we
denote that context with the type of the arguments. What is the
problem?

1 is not equivalent to 1.0 - the '1 == 1.0' returns a true result only
because types are coerced. '1 is 1' returns true, but '1 is 1.0'
returns false. Neither comparison has anything to do with whether the
mathematical types are the same, but I just wanted to show that the
behaviour of '==' is of no special significance.

1 has the implicit meta-data that the domain is integers. 1.0 has the
implicit meta-data that the domain is reals. Coercion of mixed types
is a convenience which has nothing to do with this - and the fact that
Python is dynamically typed has nothing to do with it either.

>StatusQuo Pragmatic: Change will break code.  (Counter: which is why a
>long transition is planned.)

Making change easier or less painful does not mean that change is
necessary. In reality, if Python had always had two division operators
I'd simply consider that a minor wart and ignore it. But this change
is going to break almost all the code I have ever written in Python.
To justify that, I want a very very good reason - not a religious
viewpoint that is easily countered with equally strong rationales for
the opposite viewpoint.

>Change Pragmatic: Ambiguity of / (what is eight/three?) leads to
>errors, *especially* in a language like Python with polymorphic
>untyped names.   Change will enable other changes in numerics system.
>(Counter: they might not be so hot either.)

If the numerics system is to change (a *GOOD* idea) then it needs to
change in a way that still allows types (or some other form of
context) to carry meta-data about the way arithmetic operators work.
At the very least there needs to be some way to say 'I am working in
the domain of integers' and 'I am working with exact values (or
limited precision approximations)'. That need not be the same as
stating the *representation* of the values - an integer representation
may well be used for an argument when the full domain of reals is
valid for results. What the new numerics system needs to do is
separate numeric representations and algorithms from the concept of
type - not discard the concept of numeric type altogether.

This can be done without breaking code. After all, '0.5' only implies
a float representation because floats are the only way we have to
express reals at present. It could be taken as a value with a real
type, and represented with a float, rational or fixed-point notation
or whatever seemed convenient to the interpreter at the time, and
still be called. '2' could continue to imply an integer type (as
opposed to an integer representation).

The domain of integers is not somehow different from other domains -
it is simply one of many possible domains to work in, and one which
happens to be very useful for most programmers. I'd suggest that the
domain of non-negative integers would be another useful domain for
programmers.

Will symbolic division have 'polynomial division' and 'polynomial
remainder' operators?

The remainder from polynomial division has nothing to do with the
remainder from integer division, except in that both forms of division
extend from the same principles (as does float division, though the
float remainder has few real-life applications hence Python providing
an integer-division-based remainder even for float arithmetic).

IMO, division should stick with one notation irrespective of the
context - the context should be made explicit either in the type of
arguments or using some form of block structure.


This opinion was stated before the revised PEP238 was written, but it
has been ignored. Guido has continued with the assertion that there is
one 'mathematically correct' division with integer division being
something completely separate, despite the fact that mathematics
itself provides no grounds for that assertion - mathematics has many
forms of division, with the choice being implicit in the context -
particularly the domain.

Take a look at my posts titled 'Steve Summary of views on the
Is-It-Actually-Better?', and tell me precisely how many issues that I
raised have actually been addressed in the revised PEP.

The revised PEP ignores many points that Guido clearly knows about
because he has replied to them. He takes his reply as definitive and
absolute despite the further counters. And, as no doubt will happen
for this post, repetition simply leads to the 'we've heard all this
before' and 'go away until you're ready to be more reasonable'
replies.


Another issue - Guido claims that arguments based on other languages
are only relevant if the reasons for those decisions are understood.
So take two well know examples where a language has been created based
on deliberation based on past languages.

Java - based on the C/C++ way, kept the same position on division.
Ada - based on Pascal/Algol style languages - specifically chose to
use a single division operator instead of two separate ones.

Of course they are statically typed - rather than dynamically typed -
languages. I don't see the argument for why dynamically typed
languages should do even more implicit coercions/casts than statically
typed ones. Surely, given that the variables are untyped, we should be
taking even more care to make sure the values have the types we expect
them to have.

>> He [Guido] is a new-born division-must-be-done-this-way-ist.
>
>How did you ever get *that* idea.  He mentioned wanting a change about
>four years ago and described the exact proposed replacement nearly
>three years ago.  (Again, see 'deja/vu').

You can be a new born Christian for a very long time. It's not the
time that's important, it is the fact that a prior belief has been
reversed. It relates to a principle called post decisional dissonance
- the psychology equivalent of the schmitt trigger. Make a decision,
and that decision seems stronger and more valid to you than before you
chose, without needing further evidence. Thus it takes more effort to
change that opinion. Now repeat the cycle - actually get someone to
reverse that opinion - and the conviction will be even stronger again.
The evolutionary purpose is simply to keep working to a single
objective unless there is good reason to change. But of course, in
psychology, a good reason to change has more to do with social
pressure than logical reasoning.

Guidos initial position when he wrote Python is not the position he
takes today. However weak the original conviction, he has taken a
definite decision now which is the opposite of that view.
Post-decisional dissonance applies, just as it does for my decision
that having multiple division operators is unnecessary and misses the
point. But I don't claim my viewpoint is so strong that it justifies a
major change to a basic arithmetic operator in a widely used language,
breaking large amounts of old code.

Guido has certainly acted appropriately in seeking ways to cussion the
blow, but IMO he has not proved that there is an adequate long term
benefit to justify the blow in the first place. I doubt that any long
term benefits even outweigh the long term costs - costs which a lot of
people seem to be pretending are non-existent.



From joeoptics at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 18:42:52 2001
From: joeoptics at hotmail.com (David Lees)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:42:52 GMT
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
References: <D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3b7ee623$0$318$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>
Message-ID: <3B7EEF97.4101CC3D@hotmail.com>

You might check out some posts I did in the last few weeks concerning
false alarms on NAV2001 for the ActiveState source distribution. 
Specifically the swig.bat was triggering a false alarm and calling it
the Silly.something virus.  They fixed it on the 2.10 source dist build,
but I have not run it against anything newer.  Please do everyone a
favor and complain to Norton about false alarms.  They fixed my
complaint in about a week.  You should be able to locate my posts via
dejanews.

david lees


Volucris wrote:
> 
> "Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> >                              I'm a bit curious about a few things what is
> > the difference between Python 2.1.1 and Pythonwin?
> 
> ActivePython is based on Python, so everything in the standard Python distro
> (AFAIK) is in ActivePython. But also, including Pythonwin, COM stuff, the
> docs in Windows help format, and other stuff that I can't remember.
> 
> >
> >    Which one would be the better of the two since i'm running windows 98
> and
> > getting ready to run windows 2000?
> 
> Well, if you are going to be on Windows, might as well go with the whole
> shebang. Even if only for Pythonwin; it's a pretty good IDE.
> 
> >
> >    Also there is a a particualr script that norton tells me that I should
> > stop when installing active python 2.1.1. Does anyone know or have
> > experience with all this?
> >
> 
> I haven't had this problem, but I've heard of it happening to others, as
> well. It's a Norton problem, and I think they've fixed it by now. It was a
> recent thread, I think. Search http://groups.google.com for Norton for more
> info.
> 
> -greg


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 11:08:07 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:08:07 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <mailman.998632296.6398.python-list@python.org> <7xg0ai9d6q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9m56of$k32$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9m5qsd$gigd$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote in message
news:9m56of$k32$1 at nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...

<snip>

>
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston1.va.h
> ome.com&output=gplain
> (Uggh! Any way to get short URLs for groups.google links?)
>

Other than dropping the &output=gplain from the end,  I think that's the
shortest groups reference.  Dropping this also makes it easier to follow the
thread.

It then pares down to:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston1.va.h
ome.com

You can convert %40 back to @, but that opens it to potential
misinterpretation:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.hom
e.com

For python posts it'd be nice if a reference to the pipermail URL were held
in the message:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/059581.html

But I can't get anywhere close to this:  ;-(
http://x44.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=6234117189


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug 22 05:41:43 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:41:43 +0100
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78C005@intrepid>

> From:	Paul Rubin [SMTP:phr-n2001 at nightsong.com]
> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead
> of Lisp-style garbage collection?
 
AFAIK, it uses *both* as of Python 2.0. (If I'm wrong, I'm sure that someone
will correct me!)

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Aug  7 17:04:22 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 21:04:22 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <9kp3hs026g6@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n0lum.im5.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:03:44 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>news:slrn9mu445.62q.quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu...
>    ...
>> Eiffel goes even further with this, for example:
>>
>> fp.read_line
>> s := fp.last_string
>>
>> I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety or
>not.
>
>To me, it seems cleverly designed to maximize threading
>problems/race-conditions/horrid-bugs.

That's what I first thought as well.  In addition, := assigns references and
strings are mutable, so you really need clone(fp.last_string) to avoid
aliasing.

One counter argument is that if state-changing operations are isolated and
seperate from queries it's easier to lock your state changing operations, and
then let the rest of the code that uses the queries run in parallel.

I don't see how that buys you much when there's a 1:1 between commands and
queries, though.  It also assumes that all threads want the object to be in
the same state, which seems unlikely.  I can't think of any examples that
cleary demonstrate the counter argument either.

Presumably Meyer has more rationale in OOSC so I don't have an opinion until
I've read that (though I've found some of Meyer's rationales unconvincing in
the past).


From piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl  Thu Aug 30 06:16:45 2001
From: piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:16:45 +0200
Subject: Windows and file input in Python
Message-ID: <9ml0uf$cuv$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>

Hi

This is my next simple question about Python.

I have to sometimes use python under windows 98. It is python 2.1. Using
command.com is really not the way I want to go in 21 century ;-(

I'v noticed Idle. Nice thing but my program reads and writes files in
current (ie. my program) directory and idle says: file (the one I
read/write) not found. I think it is a problem with search path (?).

So what I want is:

Use ultraedit (or idle) to edit python's program. Double clicking on my program's
ikon to run it.

What should I do? Should I rewrite my program (simple: open(myfile)) to
something more advanced ;-) to be usable under win?

Regards 
Piotr Legiecki


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 25 15:35:04 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:35:04 -0400
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
References: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B87FDE8.4CE63729@engcorp.com>

Sandy Norton wrote:
> 
> Recently, I was rather surprised by the following behavior:
> 
> >>> lst = [1,2,3]
> >>> sublst = [1,2]
> >>> sublst in lst
> 0
> 
> I am sure there's a good reason why it would be considered unpythonic
> for the above to return 1... I just can't get my puny brain to figure
> it out right now.

Well,

>>> lst = [ 1, [1, 2], 2, 3]
>>> sublst = [1,2]
>>> sublst in lst
1

Given the choice between the two, this one should be considered
less surprising.  Well, with 20-20 hindsight, anyway. :-)

> I guess a function such as issublist(sublst, lst) would be more
> appropriate:
> 
> >>> def issublist(sublst, lst):
>         for item in sublst:
>                 if item not in lst: return 0
>         return 1

The problem with something like this is that for someone
else a different definition might be more useful.

For example, your issublist() actually just tests whether
each of the individual elements in the sublst occur in the
list, but not necessary in the same order.  Perhaps a more
suitable name for that implementation would be:

  def allElementsAlsoIn(subset, set):

or something like that.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Wed Aug  8 09:59:35 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:59:35 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B7013C1.60403@herts.ac.uk> <3B702B13.F2CC43CB@letterror.com> <3B704473.2B896C07@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <3b714360.1864088@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:41:39 +0200, Just van Rossum
<just at letterror.com> wrote:

>I wrote:
>
>> This one uses list comprehensions (it's based on David Ullrich's version):
>> 
>>[ ..snipped recursive version.. ]
>
>It turns out a non-recursive version was easier than I thought (also using
>list comprehensions):
>
>
>input = [[1, 2], [4, 5, 6], [8, 11]]
>
>def permute(alist):
>    results = [[]]
>    for i in range(len(alist)):
>        results = [res + [item] for res in results for item in alist[i]]
>    return results

Huh.

I gotta get me a version with those list comprehensions (some day
when I feel like redoing a lot of xml stuff...). _Not_ that it
matters, just curious: Have you compared the performance of this
with other versions? Last time it came up list-comprehension
versions were surprisingly slow (istr).

(It _really_ doesn't matter, but I don't think that "permute"
is really the best name: "permute(alist)" sounds to me like
a list containing all the permutations of alist, so for
example permute(input) would be a list containing six items,
each of which is a list of three lists in different order.
Really does seem like what we're calculating here is the
cartesian product of the lists in alist.)

>all = permute(input)
>for x in all:
>    print x
>print
>
>
>Just


David C. Ullrich


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug 29 10:05:18 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
In-Reply-To: <tooqoh5kr9a5bd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290702370.22522-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, John Roth wrote:

> Doesn't your listen have to be in a loop? Each time it returns, the return
> from listen is a new connection socket descriptor (file descriptor). Then
> you
> spin off whatever you need to do to handle the connection - a new
> process, thread or whatever.

No! You need to call listen only once. You call accept over and over, but
not listen.

-Dave




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 30 20:31:11 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:31:11 -0500
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
In-Reply-To: <Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
References: <Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <15246.56015.265150.755454@beluga.mojam.com>

    Mike> Is there a way to specify a timeout for this library? I can't find
    Mike> a way in the documentation.

There's nothing I'm aware of in the core distribution, but I have seen two
third-party modules that provide this.  One is timeoutsocket, the other
timeout_socket.  Despite the similar names, they approach the problem in
fundamentally different ways.  I think you will find timeoutsocket easier to
use.  Here are pointers to both:

    http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py

    http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/timeout_socket.py

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug 22 02:14:21 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:14:21 GMT
Subject: Python & IRC : Is it a fantasy or reality 
References: <rCyg7.3606$zk4.319925@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o6j6r.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:38:47 -0400, Relfx <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure how many of you saw someo f my earlier posts a couple of weeks
> ago about wanting to make a irc client with python. I have taken a look at a
> few sites and tried ot find as much info on asynchronous modules and
> asynchat but the documentation is that good.

Why use asynchat at all? You could just as well make it with select or
threads (but that's probably an overkill).

> 
>     As for other windows irc clients it doesn't seem theywant to have
> anything to do with it. Is python fading away or something? Why is it so
> hard to get some help on making a simple irc client for windows 98 that i
> can use to make scripts using python's programming language. Everywhere i
> turn I see people talking about MIRC and it's unique scripting language. I
> find python very intersting and I would like to have a irc client for
> windows 98-2000 so that I can progress more efficiently.
> 
>    If there are any people out there that are willing to help me and give
> something to the open source world please let me read your views on this. So
> that I may know if all this is possible and how long would it take for this
> idea of mines to become a reality.

I'd help you but for two things: 1. I'm not using windows and 2. you
didn't say what exactly you need help with.

What do you want to do? GUI client or console one? Did you look at the bot
source I replied to you about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Aug  9 12:12:27 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:12:27 +0100
Subject: Bug in rfc822
In-Reply-To: <15178.22129.161470.499112@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <slrn9khcjv.c7q.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <slrn9kkcu1.gh1.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <15178.22129.161470.499112@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <01080917122701.12073@comuno>

On Tuesday 10 July 2001  2:12 am, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> >>>>> "ph" == phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>     ph> I am currently writing a program that reads emails,
>         modifies 
>     ph> them in various ways (adding headers, encryption, etc)
>         and 
>     ph> outputs the result.
>[...]
>     ph> My module doesn't know anything about Mime; which is good
>     ph> because IMO there is room for a library that is
>         higher-level 
>     ph> than rfc822 but lower level than knowing about
>         Mime.
>
>     ph> What is the process of getting a module in the standard
>     ph> library?
>
> Post the code. :)  I definitely want to look at what you've got, to
> see how well (or if) it fits with mimelib.

OK, here's my current code. It's in two parts: mailheader.py contains
the Mail, MailHeader ands MailBody classes. (It uses rfc822 for
parsing right now, because I didn't want to reinvent that wheel
just yet). The other module is utility.py, which contains various
small utility functions I find useful, and is used by mailheader.py.

I've put it in MIME attachments.

Bear in mind that this is a work-in-progress. Ususal disclaimers
apply.

-- 
#===== Philip Hunt == philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ======#
 Herbivore: effort-free public key email encryption. See:
<http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/intro.html>
          *** herbrip software now released ***
          






-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: mailheader.py
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010809/1354bcec/attachment.ksh>
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: utility.py
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010809/1354bcec/attachment-0001.ksh>

From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Aug 28 15:24:01 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:24:01 -0600
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <3B8BDDF2.C6DF7018@ccvcorp.com> <5HRi7.53273$c8.23352370@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <9mgrle$5lj$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Rainer Deyke wrote:
>Consider the
>case where 'a' is a long integer that cannot be fully
>represented in a Python float.

Consider the case where 'a' is a float so 100*f
raises an OverflowError.  Just as (un)likely as your case,
esp. when the originator of this thread only had
"some simple calculations."

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jcg at argonet.co.uk  Tue Aug 21 15:56:04 2001
From: jcg at argonet.co.uk (Mr J C Greenwood)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:56:04 +0100
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4aadab2d22jcg@argonet.co.uk>

In article <89d9e2ac4a%tim at worthy.demon.co.uk>,
   Tim Howarth <tim at worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant1923070b02%2U at schwertberger.freenet.de>
>           Dietmar Schwertberger <dietmar at schwertberger.de> wrote:

> > In article <4aaca91302jcg at argonet.co.uk>, Mr  J C Greenwood
> > <URL:mailto:jcg at argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > > What do I need to do to run ITS-0/0?

> > Unfortunately you can't run ITS on RISC OS as there is no port of Tk which
> > ITS uses for its GUI.

> How big/difficult would it be to port Tk using the toolbox modules ?

Looking at WIMPY, which is included in the Python Riscos site, there is a
note that says:

"This is a Python module which interfaces with the RISC OS wimp." Is this
the same sort of thing?

John

-- 
John Greenwood                            jcg at argonet.co.uk

Loughborough, in the middle of England



From empii at cc.tut.fi  Sat Aug 18 17:44:42 2001
From: empii at cc.tut.fi (Pekkarinen Mikko)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:44:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: problem calling functions with default arguments
References: <9lee98$34p0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7AC3B9.D6FB66@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> <owen-697B48.15085515082001@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <9lmnka$o0c$1@news.cc.tut.fi>

Russell E. Owen <owen at astro.washington.edu> wrote:
: I did look in the FAQs before posting, but if it's there, I managed to 
: miss it.

The item 6.25 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=all#6.25
explains the same thing already explained in this thread.


-- 
mikko pekkarinen empii at cc.tut.fi http://www.cs.tut.fi/~empii/
Nobody can be uncheered with a balloon.


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 10:13:33 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:13:33 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFBD@intrepid>

> From:	Robin Becker [SMTP:robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk]
> I just downloaded the html and although dark magenta and green are
> mentioned as indicating change at the top I don't see any other
> indications of it being used either in the source or on the screen.
 
Fixed.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Aug 26 09:37:24 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 06:37:24 -0700
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998799639.28464.python-list@python.org> <PL1i7.138061$EP6.38219042@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <9mau2k$eme$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <PL1i7.138061$EP6.38219042 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at home.com> wrote:
>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.998799639.28464.python-list at python.org...
>> 
>> Hmm.  The idea that someone could dislike outlining is so foreign to
>> me I'd be hard pressed to consider such a one human.
>
>A little harsh?...  

A little humor?...



(This is *Tim* *Peters*, remember?)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug  7 03:03:33 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 03:03:33 -0400
Subject: proposed language change to int/int==float (was: PEP0238 lament)
In-Reply-To: <3b666579.880046189@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPCLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim, still trying to recover from an avalanche of email]
> It would [be] much easier to take advantage of 754 by simulating fp
> entirely in software, avoiding the platform HW and C fp facilities
> entirely.

[Bengt Richter]
> I sort of expected you to say that, but don't you find that sad?

Sure, but I'm too old to get depressed over being sad <wink>.  It's about 16
years since 754 became a std, and language support for it still reeks.  It's
also sad that so few FPU vendors thought to support the non-mandatory
double-extended format, and a tragedy that C compilers on Pentium chips
(where HW does support it) exploit double-extended in such unpredictable
ways that double-extended is in practice much more a source of subtle bugs
than the wonderful safety net it was *intended* to be.  Also sad that
significant HW support for decimal fp is still limited to calculators, and
that few CPUs expose HW random-number generators, and that even fewer offer
significant support for multiprecision GCD calculation, and ... there's
*plenty* to be sad about, Bengt -- don't blow it all on one thing <wink>.

> BTW, I couldn't find where it officially says a sequence
> expression's elements are evaluated guaranteed left to right. E.g.,
> if I write
>     [foo(), bar(), baz()]
> can I depend on global side effects of foo() to be available to
> bar(), and of bar() to baz() in strict sequence?  The sequences
> are at the top of the precedence table, but what of the elements?
> Just want to make sure ;-)

Yes, you're safe.  It's not in the ref man, but left-to-right was Guido's
intent, and he's promised it in public more than once.  BTW, it's almost
always a terrible idea to deliberately rely on side-effect order; the rule
has greater value in reducing the number of ways in which "conforming"
Python implementations (incl. CPython across releases!) can vary in what
they produce.

AFAIK, there's only one place CPython blows this, and, last time I asked,
Guido considered it a bug (but nobody has cared enough to fix it):

>>> counter = 0
>>> def i():
...     global counter
...     counter += 1
...     return counter
...
>>> {i(): i()}
{2: 1}
>>> {i(): i(), i(): i()}
{4: 3, 6: 5}
>>>

This is specific to dict constructors:  key:value *pairs* are evaluated left
to right, but within a single key:value pair, the value gets evaluated
first.  Hmm.  It's about time that got a bug report!  So here one is:

<http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=448679&
 group_id=5470&atid=105470>

of-course-fixing-it-may-break-somebody's-code-ly y'rs  - tim




From charles at a3a.com.br  Thu Aug 23 17:44:39 2001
From: charles at a3a.com.br (Charles)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:44:39 -0400
Subject: Search
Message-ID: <01082317443900.02108@magneto>

Hello,
 Anybody know if python have a perl like regex or php ereg function ?
 I need search a word into string, but i dont know how modules can help me.

Thanks.
Charles




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sun Aug 26 04:11:21 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:11:21 +0200
Subject: New Python User Question about Python. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "24 Aug 2001 11:48:12 PDT."
             <9m67hc09b0@drn.newsguy.com> 
Message-ID: <m15av0r-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:

[delightful musings skipped]

> In Python, this function works equally well for lists, tuples, arrays,
> or Numeric arrays full of integers, floats, or longs (except that it
> always returns a float--darn!) That's beautiful. But in all honesty,
> how often do you really _need_ to do generic programming? I'm
> guessing, only a very small fraction of the time--1%, maybe? Most of
> the time, you (the programmer) really do know what types you're
> working with--even if Python doesn't, not because Python's stupid, but
> because it's not as smart as you, and you haven't told it (which, if
> you think about it, isn't really the smartest thing you ever did
> <wink>.)

Your statement about the rarity of generic programming might apply to
you (although I doubt it) but in general its just plain wrong.

Using generics in Ada or templates in C++ might be difficult for the
average programmer but doing generic programming in Python is so
trivial that just about everybody does it. Every time somebody
reassigns sys.stdout to something which is not a file, they are are
enjoying the benefits of generic programming.

> OK, so what if a system already existed that provided the benefits of
> generic programming (when you _do_ need it), without the overhead?
> What if that system wasn't Python, but, with a little work (a _lot_ of
> work actually--that's why I need your help!), could be made to _seem_
> like Python?
> 
> I'm seeing a speed factor that ranges from about 1:1 to 70:1,
> depending on the algorithm. Also, as compiled programs, my executables
> are a lot smaller than equivalent "frozen" Python programs, and are
> *much* harder to de-compyle.

Now that certainly sounds interesting. Will your system also allow the
use of generic programming when the need for it was not foreseen by
the original author of the code (for instance, the passing of an
object of a compatible but completely different type as an argument to
a function)?

If not I'd rather stay with Python.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Aug 16 18:27:45 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:27:45 -0000
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7C21AA.50405@wi.mit.edu> <9lh7oa$h82$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7C3893.2040708@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <998000865.387746@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu>:
| Donn Cave wrote:
[re performance issue with threads]

|> Lose 30%??!!  Where does it go, do you have any idea?

| Python has a global lock during threading so that only one python 
| instruction can be running at a time.  If you GUI runs a lot of python 
| calls and your threaded process runs a lot of python calls. 
|  Bingo---you're hosed.

So is this primarily about serialization of computations that could
be executing in parallel on multiple CPUs?  Or are you hitting the
lock so often that the cost of the lock itself is detracting noticeably
from overall throughput?  I know about the lock, but I'm still surprised.

| Fortunately running components in other processes is relatively easy. 
|  There are a lot of remote proxies running around out there.  The main 
| problem is asynchronous I/O because not only do you have to connect to 
| the operating systems I/O you have to work into the GUI systems I/O and 
| event loop.  Gtk/Tk/Qt and wxPython allow for fairly easy hooks into 
| their event loop so you can poll sockets/pipes with a simple callback or 
| timer mechanism(which of course is GUI specific).  Even COM and CORBA 
| have to deal with this reality.  If you care to dig deeper you can check 
| out the execellent fnorb (python corba orb) documentation for working 
| with GUI event loops.
|
| This kind of thing really gets hard for novices incredibly quickly, it 
| quite literally is a big old brick wall for a lot of people.  Hopefully 
| we'll be able to fix it one day :)

Oh yeah.  I will look at fnorb.  I have thought recently about
whether stackless Python could be used to emulate a normal
procedural model on top of an I/O event driven dispatcher,
using continuations to sequence the event responses.  No great
enlightenment yet, but I will write back if I get anything.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 14:12:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:12:30 -0500
Subject: eval errors tracing
In-Reply-To: <aaf95f4f.0108210934.3d5af6c5@posting.google.com>
References: <aaf95f4f.0108210934.3d5af6c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15234.42126.782762.266507@beluga.mojam.com>

    tigra> How can I catch the SyntaxError exception and get the real line
    tigra> number from it?

Check out the traceback module, especially the print_tb and format_tb
functions:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-traceback.html

They are typically called like

    traceback.print_tb(sys.get_exc_info()[2])

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 14:40:49 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:40:49 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <d9Xa7.747$N42.81948@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <n7gomtgmnrfmf6hvud5p06038avcotqm3h@4ax.com>

>> >>> mylist = [1,2,"alpha"]!
>> Type Consistency Error:
>> >>>

>Doesn't the array module already do this?

For numeric types with known type codes, yes. More
generally, no. For example, a common use of container
objects is to put instances of objects into them. A consitent
list would simply make certain that all objects in the list
were of the same type, perhaps using isinstance or some
such.

C//



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 04:22:39 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:22:39 +0200
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
References: <kb6gnt49hb0n6il52hb9r4ab59dkpbtgpn@4ax.com> <slrn9ngrqn.2ij.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <114e7.30334$c8.9974672@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lan4g0185k@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:114e7.30334$c8.9974672 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
    ...
> > class A:
> >     def __init__(self, *args):
> >         # do stuff
> >
> > ... is roughly analogous to C++'s constructors, if you don't count C++'s
> > implicit passing of the object.
>
> One important difference is that Python gives more control over the
> construction process.  For example, in C++ the constructors of all base
> classes are always called before the constructor body is entered.  A
Python
> '__init__' method can choose if, when, and in what order the base class
> '__init__' methods should be called.

...so Python's constructors are closer to Java, where superclass
construction is also non-implicit (Java has single inheritance,
and therefore the handy 'super' keyword, but it seems to me that
the implicit vs explicit distinction is more important here).


Alex





From matt at mondoinfo.com  Thu Aug 23 14:46:29 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:46:29 GMT
Subject: Radiobutton HELP!!
References: <3B85135A.E5EE3002@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9cch7.10089$x84.2981977@ruti.visi.com>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:29:46 -0400, Rbtns <rbtns082484 at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Hi, I'm trying to use Radiobuttons with Tkinter. I've used them
>before, but never two lists of them at one time.  The problem I am
>having is that everytime I make a selection in one radiobutton list,
>the program automatically makes that same selection for the other
>list. I have included sample code to illustrate:

Hi!

I think your problem is here:

>sel1 = -1
>sel2 = -1

Tkinter radiobuttons want to work on Tk variables, not Python ones.

Replacing those lines with:

sel1=IntVar()
sel1.set(-1)
sel2=IntVar()
sel2.set(-1)

makes it work as you'd expect. Why it worked at all in the first place
is a mystery to me.

Regards,
Matt


From doug.fort at verizon.net  Wed Aug 22 08:40:29 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:40:29 +0100
Subject: base classes
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
Message-ID: <3b83a83d$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Pete wrote:

> One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute called
> 'a'
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 1
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 2
> class aa( a1, a2 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
> 
> AA = aa()
> print AA.__dict__
> --------------------------------------
> this code prints:
> {'a': 2}
> 
> but if I change self.a to self.a_ in class a1:
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a_ = 1
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 2
> class aa( a1, a2 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
> 
> AA = aa()
> print AA.__dict__
> ------------------------------------------
> I got:
> {'a_': 1, 'a': 2}
> 
> The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
> workaround?
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
Check out the Python Tutorial
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011510000000000000000

<quote>
The only rule necessary to explain the semantics is the resolution rule 
used for class attribute references. This is depth-first, left-to-right. 
Thus, if an attribute is not found in DerivedClassName, it is searched in 
Base1, then (recursively) in the base classes of Base1, and only if it is 
not found there, it is searched in Base2, and so on.
</quote>

If you defined class aa as aa(a2, a1), you would find the other value.

-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Mon Aug  6 10:23:05 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:23:05 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.997093029.1155.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6ea745.1860289@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:16:24 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
<mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:

>
>On 03-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
> >  On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:31:44 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
> >  <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
> > [...] It reminds
>me of a pupil in a basic carpentry class, who asked his teacher how many
>digits he needed for pi to make that circular thing that he was supposed 
>to make. Was the eight digits given by his pocket calculator enough? 
>Pi, his teacher replied, is just a little bit more than three.

Which is exactly right.

> > >I'm glad that I don't have to fear that my colleagues execute me if I
> > >find exceptional results.
> >  
> >  Just because it hasn't happened in a while doesn't mean it can't
> >  happen... my advice would be to stick to unexceptional results
> >  just to be on the safe side.
>
>:o)
>
>This thing is getting a little bit too off-topic, don't you think?

No doubt. Not sure whether I started it or not...

But I'll try to resist the urge to say that all this is
not what I meant to be saying, my point was just that
[look up point elsewhere and insert here].

>/Mikael
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
>WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
>Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
>Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
>Date:    06-Aug-2001
>Time:    11:43:48
>
>         /"\
>         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>          X      Against HTML Mail
>         / \
>
>This message was sent by XF-Mail.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>


David C. Ullrich


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug 18 14:42:41 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:42:41 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <YBwf7.55343$MC1.18386642@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <3q5tnt8frcsm04at4d40mtnvt9p3avrkji@4ax.com> <DKxf7.39029$c8.13736694@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <1adtntors65tsrk31932tnfjgj6fmcm5c1@4ax.com>

>> static ... Would rather gouge my eyes out.

>Maybe 'static' would be used for something totally different, like to tell
>the interpreter that dynamism is not needed in a certain context.

>def static f(): pass
>f.attribute = 1 # Error: 'f' declared immutable by keyword 'static'.


I've heard that Perl uses the keyword "strict" for this. If I
implemented it, I'd explore the following ideas:

When a function is declared "strict," local variables must be
declared. Misspellings would not automatically create a local
variable.

When a class is declared "strict," assignments to attributes
on an object instance would throw an exception unless first the
class had that attribute. A strict class automatically propagates
the strict attribute to all of the methods on the class and its
instances.

When a module is declared "strict," module level attributes
may not be assigned unless first declared. module-level "strict"
automatically propagates strictness to all functions defined
in the module.

I'm not sure that I _would_ do any of these things, mind you,
except fiddle with them and see how they work out in practice. :)

C//



From lco at gofuse.com  Wed Aug  8 16:13:15 2001
From: lco at gofuse.com (lc)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:13:15 -0700
Subject: ftplib question
Message-ID: <9ks6ai$bq4$1@nntp1-cm.news.eni.net>

I'm a beginner and am trying to use the ftplib module to automate an ftp
process. I"m using the following code...
--------------------------------------------------------
import ftplib
import os

def upload(ftp, file):
    ext = os.path.splitext(file)[1]
    if ext in (".txt", ".htm", ".html"):
        ftp.storlines("STOR " + file, open(file))
    else:
        ftp.storbinary("STOR " + file, open(file, "rb"), 1024)

ftp = ftplib.FTP("ftp.fbi.gov")
ftp.login("mulder", "trustno1")

upload(ftp, "trixie.zip")
upload(ftp, "file.txt")
upload(ftp, "sightings.jpg")
----------------------------------------------------------
Question#1 : I'm not sure how i can change to the directory i want to upload
the files to. Any help would be appreciated.
Question#2 : does anyone know of a python module that allows me to schedule
tasks?
TIA
lc





From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 06:11:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:11:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290607190.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, John Roth wrote:

> Yes, as a matter of fact. The design goals for Unix and Windows were totally
> different. Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so
> modules are private resources once they're loaded. Under Windows, they
> are shared resources - the same physical memory copy can be used
> simultaniously by multiple users, and appears in multiple address spaces.

Not entirely true IIRC; the DS is copy-on-write. The whole purpose of thunking
is to load DS appropriately whenever a function stored in a DLL is called.

Yes, it's probably odd to store function pointers in the DS, but it would do,
wouldn't it?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From wware at world.std.com  Wed Aug 22 23:37:47 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:37:47 GMT
Subject: optional args for getopt()
References: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <GII4qz.A7s@world.std.com>

bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I can
> set an option string to something like:
> 	opts = "hg:b::"
> which means that 'g' needs an arg and that 'b' may have an arg. Seems
> the python routine is lacking?? 

Looking here: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-getopt.html
it appears you're out of luck.

What does the C version do if you type "program -b -g" ? Does it assume
that the leading hyphen on the "g" implies that it's another option, as
opposed to an argument of the "b" option?

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Aug  3 22:10:02 2001
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 04 Aug 2001 02:10:02 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B6B57EF.BFCA7255@tundraware.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On 03 Aug 2001 20:20:01 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
> [...]
> 
> >Yes, the example I cited was well before all this.  I need to go back
> >and reread the LGPL.  One area that was not (and still is not, only because
> >I have not kept up with it) clear to me is how code generated by
> >flex and bison was to be treated since they include GPLed code in the
> >output...  I'll get around to looking into this when I need to.
> >
> Don't have bison handy for some reason, but no reason to suffer FUD re flex:
> 
> From the "README" file of flex-2_5_4a_tar.gz:
> 
> "...
> Note that flex is distributed under a copyright very similar to that of
> BSD Unix, and not under the GNU General Public License (GPL), except for
> the "configure" script, which is covered by the GPL.
> ... "
> 
> and from the "copying" file:
> 
> "Flex carries the copyright used for BSD software, slightly modified
> because it originated at the Lawrence Berkeley (not Livermore!) Laboratory,
> which operates under a contract with the Department of Energy:
> 
>         Copyright (c) 1990 The Regents of the University of California.
>         All rights reserved.
> 
>         This code is derived from software contributed to Berkeley by
>         Vern Paxson.
> ...
> 
> This basically says "do whatever you please with this software except
> remove this notice or take advantage of the University's (or the flex
> authors') name".
> 
> Note that the "flex.skl" scanner skeleton carries no copyright notice.
> You are free to do whatever you please with scanners generated using flex;
> for them, you are not even bound by the above copyright.
> ..."

Ahhh yes, I remember this now ... it was 'bison' (and bison.hairy) that 
was the problem, IIRC...

Tnx for clearing this up...
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 16:08:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:08:52 +0200
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
References: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9ljtjv02om7@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Joseph Andrew Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B7D29E0.602AF8BD at earthlink.net...
    ...
> So that means I'd need to write code that actually drives
> the Tk widgets "from outside", as it were, either by synthesizing
> events somehow at the OS/window-system level, or by knowing
> enough about the Tk internals to convince the widgets that they're
> being clicked on, typed at, etc. And at that point it looks like
> a lot more effort than it's worth.

That's basically what we did at work for our capture-and-playback
based testing system -- knowing enough about the internals of
our own UI-engine architecture, of course (it's based on MFC, but
wraps it in a script-friendly way), so that events can be captured
and played back at different levels of abstraction (depending on
whether we're testing the UI-engine, or the actual application).

There are commercial solutions based on OS-level C&P, but of
course they're much more oriented to testing the 'externals' -- a
little change in UI layout or whatever, and your database of
captured sessions for regression-testing playbacks is toast.

I can't think of a reasonably complete solution that's worth the
effort for one user of a GUI toolkit -- the test-harness should,
it seems to me, be part of the GUI toolkit itself (alter sys.path
so a guitest directory is prepended, and rather than the actual
widgets &c what you're getting is some kind of test-harness
version).  But I don't know of any GUI kit, commercial or free,
for any language[s], that offers such a precious feature:-(.  It's
not easy to architect, of course:-(.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 03:04:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:04:13 +0200
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Alex" <new_name at mit.edu> wrote in message
news:etd1ymaj98s.fsf at lola-granola.mit.edu...
>
> I can't think of a good reason to make such a port.  Why not just
> provide interfaces that C++ programs can use, or write the slow parts of
> the python program in C/C++?

The reason is typically that a customer specifies they want C++
and nothing but C++ and are willing to pay good money for it.

You may argue until you're blue in the face (and probably lose
the contract) or you may make good money writing C++ -- it's
your choice.  If the customer specified that the letter 'r' never
be used anywhere in your source, after trying and failing to
convince them that this is irrational (oyster eating has to do
with there being an 'r' in the *month name*, NOT in the
*source code*), and checking that they're willing to pay what
it takes, wouldn't you give it a try?


Alex





From hjwidmaier at web.de  Thu Aug  2 01:08:22 2001
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 22:08:22 -0700
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com>        <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>        <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com>        <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>        <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com>        <u8zh4u0b6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>        <lyH97.7737$9i1.681152@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>        <6e990e29.0108010328.169affa5@posting.google.com> <mailman.996679503.16815.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0108012108.1447277b@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.996679503.16815.python-list at python.org>...
> Hans-J> I would have written a parser for this under Unix, but I prefer
> Hans-J> to have a consistent interface, which means basically getopt()
> Hans-J> (though I did write my own C getopt()).
> 
> Ok, I'll bite.  Why write your own C getopt?  There are several floating
> around, and there's the standard module delivered with Python.  Option
> parsing hardly seems like performance-cricial code.

Well, I did this long before I've heard of GNU and even before our
BDFL started working on a new language called "Python." The C library
getopt() just didn't do all I wanted (allow options after arguments
[this is on thing I really dislike about python's getopt -- it doesn't
allow that; even with modern shells, it's a lot easier to just add a
(forgotten) option after the ten filenames you've just written than to
bring your cursor back and add it there], long options, optional
arguments [to options i.e.], options starting with '+'; so it never
was a question of performance -- it was one of features).
I also needed an option parser for MS-DOS, so I had to write one,
anyway. Granted, I probably wouldn't do it again, now, but since its
there and rather convenient, I keep using it. In my python programs, I
stick with the getopt module.

Hans-J.


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Thu Aug  9 17:44:22 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:44:22 GMT
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com> <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com> <e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8@posting.google.com> <CWnc7.240992$EF2.29452474@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m3ae18ewlu.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Nobody into doing a browser-class that can take care of this :-) Sort
of, just fire up a browser send it an url, and it takes care of
cookie-handling and so on??

I am trying to merge together the functionality of my two supreme++
http-classes now, and also looking at trying to do a browser-class,
but the inspiration is unfortunetaly a little low at the
moment.. Mostly because I only get feedback from myself.. 

        /Andy


/ cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford) wrote:
| * Lad <printers at sendme.cz> menulis:
| | Hi Doug,
| | Thank you for your email.
| | What I need is to automate posting to web sites such as mail.yahoo.com
| | (to check email AUTOMATICALY)  that use cookies to sign-in. In Perl I
| | can do it very easily. Is it possible to do it in Python as well?
| 
| It's possible, but you have to do it yourself (urllib doesn't handle
| cookies for you AFAIK).  First you have to get the headers from the
| file-like object that urlopen() returns:

[...]


From fleet at teachout.org  Mon Aug  6 17:17:26 2001
From: fleet at teachout.org (fleet at teachout.org)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:17:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from
 ENGSOL
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108061714310.6964-100000@fleet1>

>   From: andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd)
>Subject: Re: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from ENGSOL

Thanks! (more below)

>
><fleet at teachout.org> wrote in
><<mailman.997066209.23085.python-list at python.org>:
>>
>>I think I'm hung up on the substitution thing again.  If I wanted to
>>name this 'show.py' and be able to use 'python show.py math' on the
>>command line - how do I get "import sys.argv[1]" to work.  (and I would
>>already have imported 'sys.')  I tried 'eval()' without success - kept
>>getting "invalid syntax" although the proper string was shown.
>>
>OK, using the code below and encapsulating it in a function, we get
>something like;
>
>"""
>def getDoc(moduleName):
>    "Print all of the doc strings for a module"
>    module=__import__(moduleName)
>    for x in dir(module):
>        try:
>            print "%s\n%s\n%s\n" % (x, '-'*35, module.__dict__[x].__doc__)
>        except AttributeError:
>            print "*** no __doc__ for %s.%s\n" % (moduleName, x)
>"""
>
>If you want to put this into an executable (getdoc.py for instance), add
>this at the bottom of the file;
>
>"""
>if __name__=="__main__":
>    if sys.argv[1]:
>        getDoc(sys.argv[1])
>"""

And I *do* want it as an executable!

>And Bob's your Auntie's live in lover. Of course, you need to import sys
>and os at the top of the file for it to actually work.

I didn't realize that situation was such common knowledge! (And, of course!)

>Oh, and there are a couple of smalls problem with the function 'getDoc' as
>it stands;
>
>- It prints the __doc__ strings of all of the modules that are imported by
>module. Thats potentially an awful lot of output. Do you really want to see
>all of it?

Yup!  (At least once!)

>- It doesn't print the __doc__ string of module. It will try to print
>module.__doc__.__doc__ which will always (probably) raise an
>AttributeError.
>
>I leave the resolution of those two 'issues' to the reader ;-)
>

I hate it when people say that! :)  Thanks for the pointers.

				- fleet -





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 04:12:20 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:12:20 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Neil Macneale" <mac4-devnull at theory.org> wrote in message
news:3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net...
    ...
> It turns out that its has been awhile since I used the exec* functions
> in C, and now I remember why- I don't like fork()! I consider it black
> magic.  Forking from a process which uses a lot of memory is not
> something I want to do all the time.  Especially considering the program
> I am writing.

On good Unix-ish implementations, your process's memory is
only duplicated 'virtually', with copy-on-write.  It's therefore
no big issue to fork "a process which uses a lot of memory".
It's not Unix V7 on a PDP-11 any more, you know -- we have
virtual memory these days, and page tables, and other such
modern wonders.

> In presponse to your comments on Ritchie and Thompsom- I love their
> creation, but I have no problem calling parts of it 'lame'. There are

I've noticed: indeed, you see no problem in passing such judgment
on things you clearly utterly fail to understand (vide the above fear
of fork as 'black magic') despite, you now inform us, being an
experienced practitioner.

> many aspects of the computer world that I consider 'lame', and you may
> not. It's simply a matter of opinion.  I respect Ritchie and Thomson

There are lots of issues that are valid "matters of opinion", and
others that aren't, because, thanks be, there ARE some underlying
technical *facts*.  The crucial role of fork, and its implementation
performance aspects in modern Unix-like systems, are FACTS.


> Final note- The thing I like about python is that people excited about
> it generally are not so condesending as the letter you posted below. I

That's mainly because we rarely have to deal with people as
arrogant as to insult what they clearly don't understand.  When
you're as rude as to spew insults without understanding, then
condescension is the least you can expect, in any social milieu.


Alex





From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 22:18:15 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:18:15 GMT
Subject: Python CGI and multiple forms on a web page
References: <mailman.998208330.20334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Hr_f7.478038$lq1.92057504@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Thanks, this answers my question.  The issue was bugging me and I wanted to
be certain.
Thanks,
Maan

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998208330.20334.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:
>
> > I have a web page with many separate forms on it.  Each form is
associated
> > with a Post action that runs the same or a different Python CGI script.
I
> > am using the module cgi.py
> > For each script, I am using FieldStorage to access a form's elements.
> > I want to be sure of the following:
> > Does FieldStorage in the CGI script that is being run by submitting Form
A
> > (remember, the web page has many forms:  A, B, C etc....) apply strictly
on
> > Form A so that the Dictionary available to me has only the elements of
Form
> > A?
> > I know, the question sounds naive (and it may be), but I want to be
sure.
> > Thanks,
> > Maan
>
> The short answer:
>
> Only the data in the submitted form is sent to the server. The other forms
may
> as well not exist.
>
> The long answer:
>
> I dug around in the W3C's info about HTML, and although the above is
implied,
> it's never spelled out explicitly. Take a look if you want:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h17-13.
>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>




From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sat Aug  4 11:05:06 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:05:06 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On 03 Aug 2001 20:20:01 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
> wrote: [...]
> 
>>Yes, the example I cited was well before all this.  I need to go
>>back and reread the LGPL.  One area that was not (and still is not,
>>only because I have not kept up with it) clear to me is how code
>>generated by flex and bison was to be treated since they include
>>GPLed code in the output...  I'll get around to looking into this
>>when I need to. 
>>
> Don't have bison handy for some reason, but no reason to suffer FUD
> re flex: 

But he's right about Bison, I remember that distinctly: output from 
Bison should be considered GPLed because it contains GPLed sourcecode 
from Bison. Why the rationale was not applied to Flex is still a 
mystery to me, but there you have it.

Fortunately, there are alternatives.


Robert Amesz


From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 18:41:50 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:41:50 GMT
Subject: PyQt
Message-ID: <OKAh7.14691$6x5.3840433@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

sorry me again

i was able to find the PyQt modules in my old python1.5 site-packages path.
i'm using python2.0 now
i included in my PYTHONPATH the site-packages directory from version1.5 but 
still i can't import qt in python2.1

when importing qt python2.1 gives following error message

File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/qt.py", line 44, in ?
        import libqtc
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/libsip.so.6: undefined symbol: Py_Free

anyone an idea?
tx

 


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 15:17:04 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:17:04 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <3sciotomam3i0lbereg6gik3rvjl4l4ifv@4ax.com> <mailman.998852019.16864.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <thiiotcmiu3bg4pf3bbcd6k00q1k9gv2gm@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:52:25 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998852019.16864.python-list at python.org>:

:I was just poking around in the Sleepycat documentation, and apparently they
:have some sort of locking scheme via their C API. Which version on Sleepycat
:do you currently have access to, and how are you accessing it? You'll have to
:excuse my na?vet? when it comes to file-based databases.

SleepyCat 2.4.x, or something like that.
I'm accessing it via Python. Doesn't have file locking, like I mentioned
(somewhere I mentioned that...to many messages on this topic now...)

Here are the docs on how to access it via Python:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-dbhash.html

Notice that you can append an optional 'l' to the mode, if your
installation supports locking.

Here is an interactive session:

Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dbhash
>>> db = dbhash.open('rec', 'rl')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
bsddb.error: locking not supported on this platform
>>>

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 12:55:46 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:55:46 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <9kg79r029r9@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1n9omt89amtbf9i07bvdasreuk5qs56v48@4ax.com>

>> Various different rules which have crept up over the years such as
>> "don't use global variables," and "practice strong encapsulation,"
>> and so forth are all only distractions and are useless to the degree
>> that in any particular context they don't satisfy Sir Occam's relentless
>> blade.
>
>Except that they often promote ease of testing, modification and
>refactoring.  That is what gives them value.

Sure. There's a bit of give and take on this, however. Take, for example,
the oft maligned public variable:

While in context there is a good argument to be made for separating
interface from implementation -- and this is especially appropriate if
you are producing an API -- sometimes the public attribute is itself
the interface. If you changed the name of your attribute, you would be
changing the name of your setters and getters, and you'd be flying
through all of your files with sed substitutions in any case. I do this
all the time, myself, to maintain consistency.

Note that I'm not arguing against interface and implementation separation;
I am simplying pointing out that the rule "always have getters and setters"
isn't necessarily correct all of the time. IMO, this is particularly true in
situations where you have a package of objects which are mutually
manipulatory, but don't otherwise expose a public API.

C//



From karthikg at aztec.soft.net  Thu Aug 23 03:17:11 2001
From: karthikg at aztec.soft.net (Karthik Gurumurthy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:47:11 +0530
Subject: arrays of tkinter buttons
In-Reply-To: <1103_998547451@mofo>
Message-ID: <NEBBJNMDEKBIBCMCNMBDOEMDCCAA.karthikg@aztec.soft.net>

am also new in the python world but hope this helps:
say for array of 3 buttons.

titles = ['Submit','Open','Cancel']
buttons = []
for title in titles:
	buttons.append(Button(parent,text= title,command=<some function/method
object>)

as long as the command is associated with the same function/method callback
object it s'd be fine.

karthik.




-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Locke
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:48 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: arrays of tkinter buttons


Is there a way to make an array of tkinter buttons? In visual basic you can
do this cool there where you can have an array of buttons, and you can have
them all call the same function, but have one of its arguments be
the index of the button clicked in the array.

Does python even have normal arrays, or do you have to use lists?

How could i create an array of several buttons? Would I need to use a loop?

Thanks a lot for any help people!

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From johnw at gnu.org  Thu Aug 16 18:14:14 2001
From: johnw at gnu.org (John Wiegley)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:14:14 -0700
Subject: Problem with zipfile between 32-bit and 64-bit
Message-ID: <m3d75vy7nt.fsf@gnu.org>

Using the test script below, run it once on an Intel 32-bit platform.
This produces test.zip, which extracts hello.py.

Then take the test script and test.zip to an ia64 platform, and run it
again.  The file it extracts has 0 bytes.

I've run into other problems between ia32 and ia64, such as bad
checksums, and was wondering if anyone knew anything about this?

Thanks,
  John Wiegley <johnw at gnu.org>

----[ file: ziptest.py ]----------------------------------------------
import os
import zipfile
import string

if not os.path.exists('test.zip'):
    zip = zipfile.ZipFile('test.zip', 'w')
    zip.write('ziptest.py', 'hello.py')
    zip.close()

zip = zipfile.ZipFile('test.zip', 'r')
if hasattr(zip, 'namelist'):
    files = zip.namelist()
else:
    files = zip.listdir()

for file in files:
    file = apply(os.path.join, string.split(file, '\\'))

    data = open(file, 'wb')
    print "unarchiving", file
    data.write(zip.read(file))
    data.close()


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 12:26:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:26:50 +0200
Subject: rexec questions
References: <mailman.997127183.21245.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kp4sb0285g@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997127183.21245.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> >because there isn't much current interest in controlled execution
> >of untrusted Python code, so rexec didn't (I think) mature much
> >after work on Grail more or less stopped.
>
> I've heard Mozilla will have Python applets. How will it
> rexec them?

Do you have an URL?  I'd like to investigate that -- with
google I can only find it expressed as a wish.  Presumably
Mozilla could easily restrict Python applets *strongly*,
by forbidding things very broadly (just as, say, javascript
code embedded in dynamic-HTML pages is restricted -- it
can interact with the DOM of the HTML page, and that's
just about it).


> >But there are surely
> >other interesting applications for sandboxes for untrusted code,
> >so it may be time to design and implement a rexec2 successor,
> >building upon rexec to add easier customization of security
> >(controlled imports of non-builtin modules too, connections
> >only to hosts on a trusted list, whatever...).
>
> That is what Java's Security Manager (sp?) does. This can
> probably be explained by Python's usage areas. Python is
> not used in applets extensively (if at all).

Since Grail's demise, I do agree that Python isn't often
used to run untrusted code; when it is, I guess rexec's
simple (if draconian) policies suffice, more or less.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  1 03:04:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 03:04:11 -0400
Subject: Python Windows installer: good news!
In-Reply-To: <upuai5da8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGELILCAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> Wise Solutions generously offered PythonLabs use of their
> InstallerMaster 8.1 system.  ...

[David Bolen]
> BTW, I took the last post with a comment that this was coming to
> decrease the need to investigate Inno - although I did find that ISX
> (the extended version) could handle the unknowns in the iss you posted
> about through its scripting option, but figured there's no need to
> fight against a commercial (and close to what was already in use)
> package like Wise with their offer.

Wise 8.1 is working out beautifully, and (a) my native interest in Windows
installation technology is undetectable (i.e., a "spare time fun project"
for me this isn't), while (b) it's not a religious issue to me either way.

I liked Inno a lot, and steered Fred Drake toward using it for his recent
Windows release of the Expat project:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/expat/

For simple installs, it's hard to imagine an easier approach -- have
Notepad, will install <wink>.

The Python installer is more complex in several ways, though, and it's time
for me to move on.  Note that I did check in a functional Inno Python
installer, in PCbuild/python.iss (under CVS), and I'd be delighted to see
interested parties in the community finish the conditional registry-fiddling
parts.  I keep hearing that's how Open Source works <0.9 wink>.




From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 03:50:34 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 00:50:34 -0700
Subject: New Type in Extension Module Not Accessing PyNumberMethods???
References: <e71960c5.0108081842.19435ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108082350.6068f6b1@posting.google.com>

doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug) wrote in message news:<e71960c5.0108081842.19435ff at posting.google.com>...
> im trying to write a python extension type which i am basically
> modeling on xxmodule.c that comes with the source.  however, for the
> life of me, i cannot get the numeric operations to work (just simple
> addition and subtraction here) and i cannot see what im doing wrong. 
> Isnt the following what one has to do to get numeric operations???
> 

ok, i solved the problem here.  it took me a while but i finally
stumbled upon PEP 208 and the Py_TPFLAGS_CHECKTYPES flag.  Thanks a
million to Marc-Andr? Lemburg and Neil Schemenauer for this
improvement to python.

doug


From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 14:19:05 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:19:05 -0400
Subject: python10.org page problems
Message-ID: <20010814141905.L27040@starmedia.net>

Anyone else notice that it's the same as the foretec.com homepage, and
notably different than what it probably ought to be?  e.g. the 
http://www.python10.org/p10-callpapers.html link is giving me a 404
error.

Drew

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sun Aug  5 15:22:13 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:22:13 +0200
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
References: <mailman.997037888.30259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5d6kk9.9s2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:56:07 +0100, Tony McDonald wrote:
>On 5/8/01 5:46 pm, "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> 
>>   Tony> This is on an Enterprise 3500 - UltraSparc at 400MHz (ie a big box)
>>   ...
>>   Tony> Can anyone tell me why this is so, and more importantly, what I
>>   Tony> can do to compile up python to run faster on Solaris?
>> 
>> Well, you didn't really give any indication what optimization you used with
>> gcc.  I'd start there.  There are a number of SPARC-specific flags for gcc
>> as well as a number of different optimization levels you can try.
>
>Thanks for the reply Skip, yes Sorry I did miss that part out;
>
>gcc -fPIC -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
>
>I've built a copy of GCC 3.0 with a 64-bit architecture, but there are
>problems with that as the following shows;
>
>% file python
>python:         ELF 64-bit MSB executable SPARCV9 Version 1, dynamically
>linked, not stripped
>
>Python 2.1 (#6, Aug  5 2001, 16:34:01)
>[GCC 3.0] on sunos5
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import pystone
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "pystone.py", line 37, in ?
>    from time import clock
>ImportError: ld.so.1: ../../python: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open failed: No
>such file or directory

Hmm. Seems like it doesn't find the runtime library. Setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH
(or whatever the equivalent on Solaris is) or linking with -rpath should help.

You could also try compiling with Sun's compiler, if you have access to it. One
might think they know how to generate optimized code for their own chip.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Thu Aug  9 00:01:24 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 06:01:24 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical data problem
References: <eric7.138732$um3.816234@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <002901c12088$3d165780$cfbd6ac2@zko>

From: Jeremy Jones <dnjjones at yahoo.com>
> I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
> set of data.  (Forgive me if I am not using the proper
> terminology or if what I mean by a term is completely
> different from what the rest of you mean by the same
> term.  I am still a very new newbie and am just
> converting to Python after a couple of years of perl.
> I will try to clarify what I mean.)  By hierarchical,
> I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
> and that the parents and children should be aware of
> one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
> the parent should be aware of its children and
> children should be aware of their parents).  By
> dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
> very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
> in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
> of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
> variable and will be defined at run time.  I would
> prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.
>  Right now, I have the following, which is a three
> tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
> other:
> 

You can begin with:

class MyTree:
  def __init__(self):
    d = {}
  def append_children_to_parent(self, parent, ch_list):
    item = self.d.setdefault(parent,[])
    item += ch_list

gzeljko














From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug 17 03:42:47 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 07:42:47 GMT
Subject: What is a Function?
References: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com>
Message-ID: <5hipnt8p1selgoj8p7cdj72etrjq9mam8m@4ax.com>

On 17 Aug 2001 07:33:49 GMT, patio87 at aol.com (Patio87) wrote:

>What is a function?

It's a amed point of code which can conduct an element of work.
This work is often on data the function already knows about, can
get access to, or is told about when the function is "called".

C//



From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 22 18:10:57 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:10:57 -0700
Subject: How does Python (v2.1.1) handle parameter passing? By value or by reference?
References: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>
Message-ID: <9m1b39$bqleu$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

You never return anything from your functions, so the only way x or y will
change is by x or y being mutable and not local.  This only happens in f2
when you call it.  Try adding a return x,y to f1 and f3 and invoke them as
x,y = f1(x,y) to see what happens.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com


> >>> def f1(x,y):
>                 print x, " - ", y
>                 x = x + 2
>                 y = y - 2
>
> >>> def f2(x, y):
>             print x, " - ", y
>             x.append(2)
>             y.append(-2)
>
>
> >>> def f3(x,y):
>             print x, " - ", y
>             x = [1,2,3,4]
>             y = [4,3,2,1]
>
> >>> x = 1
> >>> y = 2
> >>> f1(x,y)
> 1  -  2
> >>> print x, " - ", y
> 1  -  2
> >>> x = [1]
> >>> y = [2]
> >>> f2(x,y)
> [1]  -  [2]
> >>> print x, " - ", y
> [1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
> >>> f3(x,y)
> [1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
> >>> print x, " - ", y
> [1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
> >>>
>
>



From DavidLnonospammy at raqia.com  Fri Aug  3 18:31:33 2001
From: DavidLnonospammy at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:31:33 -0400
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
References: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com> <aCCa7.66499$EP6.15351473@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.996871993.31468.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6B2645.5C520267@raqia.com>

The problem is a bug in the NAV 2001 signatures.  I took the swig.bat
file that Dan M was kind enough to send me and ran NAV on it.  Sure
enough it said that it was a virus!  I have complained to Norton for
what its worth.  Hopefully this post will save some other nervous nellie
like me some time and worry.

David Lees


Paul Prescod wrote:
> 
> Terry Reedy wrote:
> >
> >...
> >
> > It should be quite safe to *look* at the file with WinZip's ascii
> > viewer or with notepad.
> > Or use Python to read and display.
> 
> Here's what it looks like on my computer (i.e. nonviral!):
> 
> @echo off
> 
> rem Batch file for locating and executing SWIG.
> rem SWIG binaries are kept under source control,
> rem so this batch file should find that version.
> 
> if "%SWIG_EXE%==" goto not_set
> if not exist %SWIG_EXE% goto not_set
> 
> echo NOTE: The build process has changed (hopefully for the better!)
> echo You can remove your old SWIG install, and the %SWIG_EXE%
> echo environment variable.  All of SWIG is now kept under CVS,
> echo and this version will be used if %%SWIG_EXE%% is not set.
> goto set
> 
> :not_set
> if not exist ..\swig\swig.exe goto not_found
> rem Pull a trick to convert the path to a full path.
> for %%I in (..\swig\swig.exe) do set SWIG_EXE=%%~fI
> for /D %%I in (..\swig\swig_lib) do set SWIG_LIB=%%~fI
> 
> :set
> cd %1
> %SWIG_EXE% %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9
> goto xit
> 
> :not_found
> echo *** Can not find SWIG.
> echo *** Please see "swig.bat" for how we attempt to locate SWIG.
> goto xit
> 
> :xit
> 
> --
> Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.
> Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 04:15:10 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:15:10 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lamme017m7@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cp3d6wf70d.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
> No, in the new system, __getattr__ is called for all attributes.  See

Oh!  OK, that *does* change everything (and I *DO* mean
everything).  If most of what I wrote in the post you
were answering didn't make sense to you, it may be simply
because it was based on how __getattr__ works today, as
I was considering the case of a "normal", "classic" class.
http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html says the new
__getattr__ behavior only works for subtypes of built-in
types, not for normal classes...

For example:

> > Of course, if the initialization is done by __getattr__ anyway, it's
> > quite futile to use __new__ to "return an empty instance of the
> > class" -- the necessarily-empty __init__ does just as well, no?
>
> Sorry, I'm not following you at all here.  I suggest that you try
> again.

Re-read this under the hypothesis that __getattr__ is only called
for attributes not found by other means (like today), and it
should be clearer: under this hypothesis, to ensure __getattr__
can trap every access, there can be no other attributes in the
class (if there were, __getattr__ wouldn't be called when those
attributes are accessed).


>     value = _EmptyClass()
>     value.__class__ = klass # The class it should be
>
> and then it initializes the instance variables.
>
> I claim that it's more elegant to write
>
>     value = klass.__new__()

Sure, or value = new.instance(klass) today -- one line
is "more elegant" than two.  (Avoiding module new was
in my case primarily motivated by the stern warnings in
the doc "care must be exercised when using this module"
etc -- not sure what klass.__new__() is supposed to
provide better than new.instance(klass), although it
does save a whopping 4 characters:-).


> Zope's persistency support manages this without assignment to
> __class__.  A persistent object has three states: ghost, valid, and

Yes, and AMK has, it seems to me, posted eloquently as to
how and why this is a kludge (or at least that's how I
read AMK's posts on this thread), made necessary by the
extension-class disabling (effectively) __class__ changes.


> I really doubt that Python 1.4 was a much worse language than 1.5, and

I wouldn't know first-hand, not having used Python 1.4 myself.
But if 1.5 was so feeble an improvement, why did you bother
creating it at all...?-)

> I doubt that Python's popularity has much to do with the ability to
> assign to __class__.

It's one of, say, 100 things that are different in Python compared
to less-dynamic languages, so it may account for (null hypothesis)
1% of somebody choosing Python rather than something less dynamic.
(Similarly, since, e.g., Ruby does have the equivalent feature,
then, if it's taken away from Python, it may make Ruby preferable
where now Python would be chosen -- here the differences are just,
say, 10, so the null hypothesis here would be to have the lack
account for 10% of the migration).

> Besides, I'm not so much forbidding it as resisting the work it takes
> to implement safely.  You can write a metaclass that allows __class__
> assignment in C, and then its safety is your own responsibility.

I understand I can program everything and a half via metaclasses,
but that's nowhere near having a feature as a built-in part of
the language.  I made just the same argument about the get/set
property-idioms you've now added: they could easily be implemented
in the past (with __getattr__ or metaclasses), but having them
readily available in the language itself *IS* still important --
I'm not going to repeat that part, but it applies just as well
to other features such as change-of-__class__.

> > But it's ironic -- there, I used an indirector to work around the
> > inability of inheriting from a built-in object.  Now, I look forward
> > to pensioning off that idiom... and I may have to resurrect it to work
> > around the inability of changing an object's __class__...!-)
>
> I'd like to see which is more common -- the need to change __class__
> or the need to inherit from a built-in type.  I'm betting the latter,
> by a large amount.

Most likely, yes.  People with significant Ruby or Smalltalk experience,
having both features available, could perhaps offer opinions with
a more solid, first-hand basis.


> > I guess I'll have to look at the source to understand why that's
> > so inevitable -- right now it escapes me.  (Is it going to be part
> > of 2.2alpha2, or do I have to get a CVS tree?)
>
> The architectural restrictions that make it hard to change __class__
> in some situations have been part of Python since it was first
> released.  Unless I misunderstand what you're asking for, 2.2a1 should
> exhibit this just fine.

But 2.2a1 lets me change __class__ "in some situations" -- just
not in all of them.  What you're now proposing (or so it appears
to me, and, it seems, to other discussants) is to take those "some
situations" away -- forbidding __class__ change except for the
last-ditch escape route of having a very special metaclass.  And
I still don't see why this should be inevitable from the 2.2a1
sources.  Even the restrictions on __class__ change you proposed
on another message would be better from my POV than a prohibition --
forcing the new class to be a subclass of the old one that adds
no slots (not so hard to check, not so hard to explain either).



> > Of course, just as there are other ways of accomplishing raising-to-
> > power, besides having it as a built-in -- it IS just repeated
> > multiplication, after all.  That's no argument for removing **
> > from the language, it seems to me.  It IS no doubt rarely used
> > AND easily mis-used [code such as x**3+2.2*x**2+1.4*x+3.6
> > rather than 3.6+x*(1.4+x*(2.2+x)) is most likely slower] -- but
> > that's no real argument for taking ** away, as it may well be the
> > most natural/clear/readable way to express some problems, and
> > also (if and when used appropriately) faster than alternatives.
>
> This is the most bizarre argument for __class__ asignment that I have
> seen so far.

It's called an "analogy", and it's not so much an argument for
allowing class change as a demolition of your "argument" that
class change can be removed with no worries because "there are
other ways of accomplishing" similar goals.

Having shown that "there being other ways" is not a good reason
for taking the direct-way away from the language (even if the
direct-way may have performance impact for naive users that
don't understand things too well -- just as ** typically tricks
naive users away from the more-efficient Horner polynomial:-) --
I haven't made an argument FOR retaining the existing feature,
but I _have_ removed an argument for _removing_ it.


> > make users request virtuality explicitly.  Like anybody who's ever
> > taught C++ or helped beginners in that language fix mistakes, I've
    ...
> Since you're invoking beginners here, let me bounce that argument
> right back.  Do you seriously believe that assignment to __class__ is
> something you would want beginners to know about?

Programs who are experienced in certain other languages but beginners
to Python -- sure!  In particular, I've been evangelizing Python to
reasonably-experienced C++ programmers, and the ability to do away
with letter/envelope idioms has invariably drawn a LOT of interest.


> > > I expect that the new facilities will be seriously user-tested only
> > > after 2.2 is released, and experience will learn how often people are
> > > changing class variables.
> >
> > You think people will be changing class variables _less_ often than
> > now because of 2.2's new facilities?  I don't see the relevance, but
> > I guess I must have missed something.  The new facilities appear
> > to be very deep and important, but in areas quite different from
> > those in which class-object changes are useful, it seems to me.
>
> Your mind works so different from mine...  It's frustrating for me to
> try and understand what you mean, and no doubt it's the same for you.

Yep -- when I look at the language you've designed and the code
you've written, I feel I understand you well and admire you, but
when I read the English discourse with which you explain things,
I often find it infuriating -- not so much ununderstandable, but
apparently irrelevant, or restating the obvious, or ignoring what
you're seemingly answering to, for example.  [Good thing there's
Tim to channel you for the rest of us, sometimes!-)]


> I strongly believe that most Python users have no need for assignment
> to class attributes most of the time.  Class attributes are mainly
> used for two purposes: (1) methods and (2) default initializations of
> instance variables.  Neither use requires changing the class
> attribute.  Overrides are done using subclassing or assignment to
> instance variables.

But subclassing gives me new and different objects -- it does not
change the behavior of all *existing* instances of the class.  To
change the behavior of every instance by assignment to instance
variables, besides the circular-reference issue that Moshe Zadka
mentioned, I have to locate every instance of the class, which
requires substantial "plumbing" (a list of weak references, say),
needing design-foresight (and thus front-loading the design effort,
a very unpleasant need in methodologies such as XP) as well as
expending substantial amounts of memory (for the plumbing, AND
for the duplicated __dict__ entries in every instance).

I agree -- there's no need to assign to class attributes *most*
of the time.  But knowing whether this is one such time requires
lots of foresight, a front-loaded design effort, designing-in
infrastructure in my application for potential future needs, and
other such costly/anti-XP practices.  A smoothly-dynamic language
such as Python used to be is a great facilitator for lightweight
just-in-time-design methodologies such as XP -- I'd refactor
when needed but meanwhile I could try out new ideas *RIGHT NOW*...
because dynamic-configurability is the DEFAULT.

Another analogy: most system administrators don't need to take
network interfaces up and down dynamically, or reconfigure their
parameters, most of the time.  But when the need arises, it's
*WONDERFUL* to be able to do so without having to reboot each
and every time.  Having ifconfig and route and iptables &c thus
makes operating systems such as Linux vastly superior to ones
not _allowing_ for such dynamic reconfiguration -- because you
know you'll have the tools at hand on those rare but possible
situations where they ARE needed.  Sure, a typical administrator
may need to use those tools dynamically and interactively maybe
once in a few months, just for emergencies, once system
configuration is well-tuned -- but they also make it much
easier and faster to REACH a well-tuned configuration at the
start, as well as providing a safety net just by existing.

Most pilots of personal airplanes have no need for parachutes
most of the time.  It's still a good idea to have them around.

> I know some people like to use class variables
> instead of module globals, mimicking Java/C++ static class variables,
> but I believe that's mistaken -- those languages don't have a module
> namespace like Python, so the convention of putting globals in a class
> makes sense from a naming perspective there.

I'm not entering this specific debate -- I do agree with the
general sense that classes are overrated/overused as the basic
unit of organization, where modules might make more sense.  Do
note, however, that C++ *DOES* have an excellent namespace
system -- Java, like Eiffel, may be totally class-centered,
but that's one criticism [or praise:-)] that you cannot fairly
level to C++ as a language.


> Every time someone uses the dynamism to patch a standard library
> class, I cringe -- it's asking for trouble.

I think I understand this specific concern -- in classic Python
terms, the class might become a type (for speed reasons) in some
new release tomorrow, and then the patching would stop working
(if what was an attribute held in the class's __dict__ becomes
a hard-wired 'slot' of the type).

But you don't need to have __dynamic__ *DEFAULT* to 0 to ward
off THIS concern, Guido: since YOU control the standard library
classes, you may choose to put __dynamic__=0 directly or
indirectly into each and every one of them if you wish.  This
would be a close parallel to what the designers of Java did,
by tagging as "final" the standard library classes where they
did not want users to be able to extend them -- they didn't
need to have each and every class *DEFAULT* to 'final'!-)

You might also get as many grumblings for this as the Java
guys do from people who'd really love to extend, say, String,
but that's another issue -- they just forgot to add for each
'final' class an immediate ancestor, e.g. ExtendableString,
*without* the 'final'... similarly I'd hope Python would keep
allowing dynamic-versions of standard classes which have a
__dynamic__ of 0, although, if I understand you correctly,
this would need no special effort in the library -- users
can still subclass standard classes and redefine __dynamic__
in their own subclasses thereof.


Alex





From DavidL at raqia.com  Tue Aug  7 11:39:21 2001
From: DavidL at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:39:21 -0400
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B700BA9.F9C624F6@raqia.com>

If your list is called 'x' then len(x) will give you the number of
sublists at the top level, which what you are asking for.

david lees


Mark Robinson wrote:
> 
> I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;))
> trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure
> that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial
> problem.
> 
> I have a nested list structure of the following format:
> [[2, 3, 4, 5],
>   [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
>   [6, 2, 7, 4]
>   ....
>   ....
> ]
> 
> I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from
> each nested list
> 
> i.e
> [2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
> [2, 4, 2, ..., ...]
> 
> If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code
> it as a series of nested for loops:
> 
> i.e
> 
> for i in list[0]:
>         for j in list[1]:
>                 for k in list[2]:
>                                 comb = [i, j, k]
> 
> but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the
> outermost list is going to be variable in length.
> 
> If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and
> give you all the profit ;)
> 
> Blobby


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 21 15:08:27 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:08:27 -0700
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <D71f7.123070$g_3.18618906@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <VV3f7.7522$ms2.690750@news1.cableinet.net> <3B7D462D.6080602@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9lubjb$fgh$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B7D462D.6080602 at wi.mit.edu>,
Brian Kelley  <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote:
>Graham Ashton wrote:
>>
>>If you made the client and server talk to each other via something like
>>XML-RPC then you could even put your daemon on a different machine if you
>>wanted, allowing clients to connect over the network and farm jobs out to
>>a server.
>
>Right, this is just a wire protocol albeit with a simpler interface than 
>Corba/COM etc.  But you still need to hook into the GUI's event loop to 
>handle events.  You can't just block and wait for a response, the GUI 
>still needs to respond to events.

While generally true, you're missing Graham's point in this particular
case.  The idea that I think he's suggesting is that the GUI user will
have to explicitly request a job status.  On the server side, sending an
initial job setup or requesting job status is a lightweight operation.
If the GUI is not intended to be robust, I think it's not reasonable for
the GUI to hang while waiting for a response.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From JOSHI2000 at MANTRAONLINE.COM  Mon Aug  6 08:16:49 2001
From: JOSHI2000 at MANTRAONLINE.COM (JOSHI)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:16:49 -0400
Subject: Help 
Message-ID: <001001c11e70$52711e40$bfd638ca@w5o9a1>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010806/2f7f3953/attachment.html>

From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug 22 18:39:01 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:39:01 -0700
Subject: where is doctest module
References: <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9m1ca5$un$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
robin and jim <robinjim at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate it
>starting from www.python.org.

If you've got a version of Python older than 2.1 and can't afford to
upgrade, the Python Imaging Library comes with a version; see
http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Aug 11 01:15:01 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 22:15:01 -0700
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <3b707aa4.591122937@news.supernews.com> <yoxk80f86lf.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <9kqvmm01udp@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9l2f0l$qfu$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9kqvmm01udp at enews1.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>
>I have my doubts this will perform all that well, even if there's
>something that makes allocating and freeing pairs (two-items-tuples)
>*quite* fast (a 'free pool' for such object specifically, or...).

Actually, IIRC, there is such a pool.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From dalke at acm.org  Thu Aug 16 11:01:51 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:01:51 +0100
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com> <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lhasl01sek@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lhg1a$5v4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>A warning would *DEFINITELY* be needed if default arguments
>*WEREN'T* evaluated as part of the def statement -- it would be
>absolutely astonishing to me (and to anybody else coming from
>C++, I guess); what language, if any, does this kind of 'lazy
>*repeated* evaluation'...?

[dalke at pw600a ~]$ cat spam.C
#include <iostream.h>
class X {
public:
  X(void) { cout << "Here I am." << endl; }
};
X default_x = X();

void f(X x = X()) {
  cout << "Called f" << endl;
}
void g(X x = default_x) {
  cout << "Called g" << endl;
}
main() {
  f();
  f();
  g();
  g();
}
[dalke at pw600a ~]$ g++ spam.C
[dalke at pw600a ~]$ ./a.out
Here I am.    <--- this is the default_x
Here I am.    <--- this is the first call to f()
Called f
Here I am.    <--- this is the second call to f()
Called f
Called g
Called g
[dalke at pw600a ~]$

                    Andrew






From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 02:42:03 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 06:42:03 GMT
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python  Path Blues)
References: <mailman.998008948.12318.python-list@python.org> <tnqeusm7gm6f8c@corp.supernews.com> <3B7D502F.3539FBFD@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <%cJf7.135459$g_3.21623785@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message

>OTOH, PythonWin and the
> win32all extensions are by definition non-portable.

I use PythonWin not for the win32 extensions but because I like the IDE and
what it has to offer.  Writing regular scripts using PythonWin is portable
in this case.

>Therefore, it seems to make
> sense that they behave like good Windows programs, and use the registry to
store
> their settings.

Ok!  but in this case, there is a lack of consistency.  The case as is:  how
come that the libs that come with pythonwin (regular python libs, not only
the ones that are win32 specific) depend heavily on the registry but the
ones that are added later by the user can not depend solely on the reistry
but on PYTHONWIN setting in environment?  This is disturbing.  Please note
that Pythonwin and Python are still reading the PYTHONWIN setting in the
environment but they do not create it.  The user has to create it.  And I
believe that these issues should have a priority - since these are
infrastructure, and the lack of good documentation discourages starters, and
makes them look at other languages/jokes like Ruby (with all due respect to
Ruby, but it is a joke language :O  ).

 >Indeed, some parts *require* using the registry--like, say
> PythonCOM.

Of course, and I got no qualm about using the registry in this case.  Those
who use PythonCOM are in windows territory.  but to use standard libraries:
the treatment should be uniform.  It is unacceptable that third party libs
has to go into a setting in the environment while other libs has to have a
special place in the registry for no other reason except that they came with
Pythonwin or Python for win.  I am talking here about the regular standard
libs.
Maan




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug 16 15:43:06 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 19:43:06 GMT
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7C21AA.50405@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9lh7oa$h82$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu>:
...
| Also be aware that whenever you use python's thread package with a
| purely python written program you will see slowdowns in the workers you
| are running. We have seen up to 30% speed loss between a threaded
| process and an unthreaded process. If speed is an issue you can set up
| the worker to run in a seperate python process and use pipes/sockets for
| update and control events. Python makes this fairly easy to do, although
| whenever you touch pipes/sockets you are getting into the realm of
| techno-weenie. Let me know if you need advice on this, we are trying to
| release some code to facilitate linux and windows out of process
| asynchrounous communication, but don't hold your breath.

Lose 30%??!!  Where does it go, do you have any idea?

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Aug 22 18:19:01 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:19:01 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9m1b4l$29l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net>:
| I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
| be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
| I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
| work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
| a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
| dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
| already a standard function to do it.

getattr(inst, name)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Aug 23 13:58:53 2001
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:58:53 GMT
Subject: Radiobutton HELP!!
References: <3B85135A.E5EE3002@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <xvbh7.24378$e5.2247438@newsb.telia.net>

"Rbtns" wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to use Radiobuttons with Tkinter. I've used them before,
> but never two lists of them at one time.  The problem I am having is
> that everytime I make a selection in one radiobutton list, the program
> automatically makes that same selection for the other list. I have
> included sample code to illustrate:
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> root = Tk()
> root.title('Radio Button Test')
>
> sel1 = -1
> sel2 = -1

you need to use Tkinter variables (which can be traced
by the widgets), not Python variables.

this should work:

    sel1 = IntVar(root); sel1.set(-1)
    sel2 = IntVar(root); sel2.set(-1)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Aug 29 00:11:19 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:11:19 -0700
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
References: <2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tooqoh5kr9a5bd@news.supernews.com>

"Jeff Grimmett" <grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, pythonistas,
>
> I'm trying to come to grips with the issue of dealing with sockets,
> or, more precisely, a socket that can accept and process 'n' number of
> requests on a particular address.
>
> Right now I'm going the route of opening an inet streaming socket,
> binding it to the port, and listen()ing for requests. For example, for
> a telnet port:
>
>    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>    s.bind(('', 23))
>    s.listen(1)

Doesn't your listen have to be in a loop? Each time it returns, the return
from listen is a new connection socket descriptor (file descriptor). Then
you
spin off whatever you need to do to handle the connection - a new
process, thread or whatever.

> ... then ... ?  I've tried a number of approaches, but so far all I
> can get to work is a single connection at a time, and in most cases
> it's good for one recv().

If you only do the listen once, then you're going to get exactly that
behavior. Once you turn a socket into a listener, you can't do normal
socket I/O on it. All it's good for is the listen function.


> This is an issue I'm going to be looking at in a lot of cases, so I'd
> like to iron it out now if I can. Any suggestions on where to start?

Unix Network Programming, by the late W. Richard Stevens. The
concepts are identical for Windows.

John Roth




From akaspick at sympatico.ca  Sat Aug  4 18:39:30 2001
From: akaspick at sympatico.ca (Andrew)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:39:30 -0400
Subject: size of a file
References: <3b5dd418_8@news.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <ll0b7.74596$Q13.4965361@news20.bellglobal.com>

Doesn't os.path.getsize(file) do the trick?

"Janos Blazi" <jblazi at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b5dd418_8 at news.newsgroups.com...
> How can I find out the length of a file. I have a descriptor fd of the
file
> (I am using the os module).
>
> Janos Blazi
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----




From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 03:34:15 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:34:15 +0200
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>
Message-ID: <2285623.XVLH7GnMWU@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Deep0258 <deep0258 at aol.com> schrub:

Your mother must have had a bad day when she gave you the name 
"Deep0258" :-)

> I am just wondering, since I am now joining python and it's greatness,
> why don't the developers of Python make Python just as fast(if not
> faster) than the older, more low-level lanquage. Yes, there are
> advantages using the interpreter style programs, but isn't there a way
> to incorporate the speed of compiled programs with the debugging and
> clearness of Interpreter to make Python a much faster lanquage. There
> might be a way, but I'm pretty new so I don't know. Any answers, thank
> you for listening?

The fact that python ist byte-code interpreted could be changed 
relatively easy, a code object could contain machine code instead. This 
would speed up some of the executions, but the much bigger slowdown is 
the fact that the language is totally dynamic.

Every variable and attribute access performs  a lookup through 
dictionaries, and this can't easily be changed without changing the 
language entirely.

The problem is, when you type a=y.z(x) then you don't even know whether 
a, x, y and y.z exist at compile time, not talking about such 
"unimportant" information as the type and if z is callable etc.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From fdrake at acm.org  Thu Aug 16 18:09:36 2001
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:09:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20010816220936.4E38428845@cj42289-a.reston1.va.home.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Improved documentation for the os.spawn*() functions.

Fix some HTML generation problems.




From slhath at home.com  Tue Aug 21 20:44:19 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:44:19 GMT
Subject: cannot zip file with zipfile
References: <3b82bada.0@216.0.152.7> <mailman.998427053.24395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DfDg7.61545$MC1.20403455@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

Thanks for the info!

Scott

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998427053.24395.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Scott> I cannot seem to create a valid zip file (one that WinZip can
>     Scott> open).  Here is my code:
>
>     Scott> a = ZipFile("c:\\test.zip","w",8)
>
> Try "wb" for the mode instead of the "w".
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/
>




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 19:19:38 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:19:38 +1000
Subject: base classes
In-Reply-To: <9m0ccg$hqp$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000@spel21.nada.kth.se> <9m0ccg$hqp$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
Message-ID: <0108230919380C.28818@ike>

On Wednesday 22 August 2001 23:34, Pete wrote:
> Yes, this is what I wanted to get. It means that you cannot have the same
> attributes when they are public (w/o leading __)

How on earth would you refer to them if you did?


    Richard



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Aug 24 12:03:09 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:03:09 GMT
Subject: Need Some WinDoze Help
References: <3B85AA48.5543D9D3@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <3b8679d2.10750812@news.t-online.de>

On 24 Aug 2001 01:20:01 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
wrote:

>I know Unix much better than Win32, so I need a little help with the following
>please:
>
>1) How do I go about finding out which shortcut key combinations are
>   currently assigned to which programs/arguments?

You don't. For example, the Accelerator keys are typically encoded in
the context of the main message loop via a call to
TranslateAccelerator() (Win32 API), and you can pass almost anything -
including an acceleratortable constructed in memory from scratch -
there. 

>2) How do I "hook" a particular keystroke combination?  I want to be
>   able to load a program and then toggle it from visible to invisible
>   using the keystroke combo of choice.
SetWindowsHookEx(), but not from Python (its not in win32all), because
e.g. for a global hook (that is, one that gets called from all
applications), you need to write a .DLL IIRC.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 05:27:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:27:49 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <7xd75tz1u2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmuon11l56@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xk800ij0d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lo0sr06qe@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xk800ij0d.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> > It's un-messy, though rather rough-cut at this point.  Best
> > coverage is AMK's at http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/rexec/rexec.html.
>
> Thanks, rexec/bastion looks nice and seems to take care of the
> problem.  I didn't see that there were enough pre-existing Python
> primitives to do that.  I'll have to look at the rexec/bastion code
> since it will probably be instructive.

It simply relies on the fact that code executed in a (global)
dictionary namespace whose __builtins__ entry does not
refer to the real __builtin__ module is intepreted as being
"restricted".  Restricted code is denied access to some of
Python's normal introspection facilities -- the interpreter
sees to that.  So, for example, a BastionClass instance has
a _get_ method that's a function, supplied to it by the
factory function Bastion, which in turn holds the real
object as a default argument.  Normal Python code could
introspect that and get at the real object; restricted code
cannot, because its introspection abilities are limited.


> An alternative may be to use one of the remote object schemes to put
> the restricted object in a separate Unix process (maybe even on a
> separate machine) from the caller.  Then the restricted object could
> implement its own access policy and generically defeating the control
> would require to breaking Unix security.  This is probably the most
> secure possible scheme, but its limitations may not always be
> tolerable.

Yes, putting the code whose execution is being restricted
in another process (maybe in another machine) *IS* a huge
step up in security.  Denial-of-service attacks via the untrusted
code become MUCH easier to defend against, for example: a
watchdog process can monitor the untrusted-process's resource
consumption and terminate it if need be -- the untrusted process
can be run with enforced priorities, under a userid with a very
limited disk-quota, etc, etc.  (It's all quite feasible under NT,
too, by the way -- just a little bit costly, because starting a new
process is heavier, but once that's done the monitoring
facilities are quite decent.).  I do agree that sometimes the
overall jump up in complexity and performance overhead
is just something you can't afford.

Something I've never done is keeping just two processes
up, the monitoring/untrusted and the monitored one -- the
process-startup overhead would only be paid on the rare
occasions when the untrusted process is terminated.  Sort
of like an untrusted-machine approach to firewalling -- you
don't build a new machine for each network transaction in
that case:-).  But I've never thought deeply enough about
potential vulnerabilities -- could one clever piece of
untrusted code hide eggs in the untrusted process and
exploit a further unrelated piece of untrusted code loaded
later with different privileges, for example?


Alex





From kalle at gnupung.net  Mon Aug 27 05:14:42 2001
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:14:42 +0200
Subject: How can i install python-mode in a emacs-editor ?
In-Reply-To: <3B8A02B6.16B33968@gmx.at>; from ma-zoXXXXX@gmx.at on Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 10:20:06AM +0200
References: <3B8A02B6.16B33968@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <20010827111442.A32665@gandalf>

[martin zohlhuber]
> I have SUSE 7.1 whith emacs version 20......
> I have some troubles to insert the python-mode into emacs.
> I download a file (python-mode.el) and compile it.
> 
> Then i get troubles: When i make M-x python-mode RET, emacs write no
> match.
> I am seeking python-mode.elc and that is ok. What is false ?

Try following the instructions on
http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/installation.html
including the sections "Setting load-path", "File associations" and
"Autoloading".

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
[  kalle at gnupung.net  ][ Thought control, brought to you by the WIPO! ]
[ http://gnupung.net/ ][ http://anti-dmca.org/ http://eurorights.org/ ]



From Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com  Mon Aug  6 08:55:56 2001
From: Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com (Peter Mayne)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:55:56 +1000
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Reading a file two different ways...from ENGSOL
References: <3b6b720d.12189167@news.onemain.com>
Message-ID: <9kn72f$pr0$2@news.btv.ibm.com>

<engsol at teleport.com> wrote in message
news:3b6b720d.12189167 at news.onemain.com...
>
> FileRead("c:\\python21\\tags\\cauxd.tex")  # Notice the double \\'s
>
> readfile("c:\\python21\\tags\\cauxd.tex")

Windows is perfectly happy to accept "/" as a legal path separator, so

FileRead("c:/python21/tags/cauxd.tex")

readfile("c:/python21/tags/cauxd.tex")

is more readable, and saves a comment 8-).

PJDM
--
Peter Mayne
IBM GSA (but the opinions are mine)
Canberra, ACT, Australia
This post is covered by Sturgeon's Law.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 04:46:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:46:46 +0200
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Benjamin Wu" <chase at gnuchina.org> wrote in message
news:9l03s7$6q9f0$1 at ID-54723.news.dfncis.de...
> When I use Tkinter, I met a question as following:
> I create three buttons and thire callback function
> is the same, how to know which button active callback
> function when one of they pressed?
>
> Anyone can help me?

Use different callables for the callbacks -- if it must be
the same function, curry the function with different
preset arguments -- see for example
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52549
about how to do currying in Python.


Alex





From wware at alum.mit.edu  Tue Aug 28 00:23:33 2001
From: wware at alum.mit.edu (Will Ware)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:23:33 -0400
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu> <7xofp0yj7h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B8B1CC5.80908@alum.mit.edu>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> If you're running linux, you should get random data by reading bytes
> from /dev/urandom.

That would be better. But whenever I test things like this, I get
compulsive and run it so many times that I exhaust the entropy pool,
and then my read() of /dev/random just sits there. I'd be curious to
know if you have any clever thoughts on replenishing the entropy
pool quicker without losing much security.




From teo at crepido.com  Fri Aug  3 03:12:34 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 00:12:34 -0700
Subject: curses-library bug? Help!
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108022312.35ceed15@posting.google.com>

Hi all! When i try to catch curses.KEY_ENTER, for example, getch() returns

something completley diffrent :)

well, i'll give you my code and explains below. ----------------------------------

import curses 

curses.initscr()

win = curses.newwin(0,0,0,0)

win.keypad(1)

win.refresh() 

while 1:

  ch = win.getch()

  if ch == curses.KEY_ENTER:

    win.addstr(10,10,"Enter pressed")

    win.refresh() 

------------------------------------- 

doesen't write anything at all on my screeen!(when i press 'enter', of course :)



The strange thing is, that other constants work, for example

curses.KEY_RESIZE, but no "keyboard-keys"(enter, tab, backspace) 

When i run my application in pure textmode (no X server), it works,

but when i run my app in a terminalemulator, the mapping of the keys

failes. I don't know if it makes any sence, but I'm running Linux-mandrake. 



Any suggestions? 

Thanks,

Teodor


From a11w at SoftHome.net  Sat Aug 11 06:51:31 2001
From: a11w at SoftHome.net (Jiba)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:51:31 +0200
Subject: Dictionary viewer and editor
References: <79179cf5.0108101306.739764ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B750E33.DC435621@SoftHome.net>

Rupert Scammell wrote:
> Pythoneers:
> 
> Are there any programs out there that can take in a dictionary object
> of arbitrary depth, and display it in a text or graphical tree format?

I've done something similar : a module that can edit every thing, from
dict and list to any Python instances, including Tk widget (aka it's
what Java call a Bean editor, but for Python objects !). There's also
menu acces to pickle and copy modules.
Tree view is available for dict or list. It is Tk-based, and the tree
widget is a slightly modified version of the one in Guido's IDLE ;-)

I've planned to put that on a web site as soon as i have the time (so
that can be not so soon ;-), but i can send it to you if you want.

Jiba




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 03:53:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 09:53:46 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com> <vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net> <9l409801oli@enews4.newsguy.com> <0Kid7.141343$um3.1230050@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net> <3B75F8E0.10178322@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9l5cvs0fic@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B75F8E0.10178322 at engcorp.com...
    ...
> > 3)  (And this one is primarily for Peter Hansen, to answer his statement
on
> > picking something simple and getting it working)
>
> To be fair, Alex was the one who first brought that up in this
> thread and I was really just echoing my agreement with his
> Pythonic reminder about simplicity.  :)

To be fair in my turn, Guido was the one who first brought
simplicity to Python and I was really just echoing my agreement
with his Pythonic design of simplicity.  :)


> > quickly.  And I would probably (as Peter pointed out) be following good
XP
> > rationality by doing so.  However, I think that XML fits in nicely for a
> > future project that I have in mind.  I know that this violates XP, but I
> > have that flexibility with the project that I am working on right now.
So,
> > for my technological growth and for learning something for a future
project,
> > I will probably go with XML.
>
> All the reasons you mention are excellent reasons to go with
> an approach which might not give you a working solution "right away".

Yes -- as long as you're not robbing Peter to pay Paul, which I'm pretty
sure from the original poster's context is not the case, but, I think, it
a valid ethical consideration in general -- so, in the following, I'm using
"you" in the totally-generic sense of "you, hypothetical reader", *NOT*
meaning specifically either Peter nor the original poster.

To clarify: if you're working for yourself or for a long-term employer,
it's FINE to "take time off" to explore technological alternatives, even
if you feel they're probably inappropriate to the current project, just
because they may come in handy in future ones.

But if you're a freelance developer/contractor, and you're billing a
customer for this project, I think it's unfair to bill the time and other
expenses for technology-exploration UNLESS your professional
evaluation is that it IS quite important to explore that specific
technology for THIS one project, in the direct interest of THIS one
customer.  In uncertain cases, I would suggest to *ASK* your
customer, the one who's footing the bills: "I think I can kludge you
up something today that would work with antiquated technology,
but if you're willing I can explore bright new technology X -- it may
or may not turn out to be the right solution, and I won't know until
I've expended amount Y of time/money exploring it in the context
of your project -- if it does fit, it will give you advantages A, B and
C".  Customers are not always as short-sighted as we technerds
may think -- let the customer make the business-decisions (can he
afford the time/money to explore a potentially better technology)
as long as you possibly can (i.e. any time there's no absolute
technological stumbling block).

Yeah, yeah, I know -- hopelessly outdated attitude; why not bill
everything and anything one may possibly bill?  Still, I believe, VERY
much in accordance with XP's philosophy, as well as with the golden
rule (isn't this how YOU would wish to be treated when YOU are the
customer for some professional in another field?-).


> XP is not about doing tiny and in-the-long-term-wasteful baby steps
> towards a distant goal.  It's a more pragmatic approach to things.

Yep.  AVOIDING waste is a big part of it.

> XP might flip things around for you: pretend that your short-term
> task is to get a quick foundation in XML, and getting a working
> solution to your test data problem is "free".

I don't see this as XP-ish, though.  Rather, the issue becomes
"let's fix the user-stories" -- somebody's first gotta write the
*tests* this piece of software must pass to be validated as
"working and meeting the specs".


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug  3 13:49:12 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:49:12 -0400
Subject: Precision Issue
In-Reply-To: <81b5a7b9.0108030852.1234fa4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEEMLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Casey Stein]
> So I'm going through the Python tutorial and I get to the part on
> lists, queues and such and the following happens:
>
> >>> a = [66.6, 333, 333, 1, 1234.5]
> >>> print a.count(333), a.count(66.6), a.count('x')
> 2 1 0
> >>> a.insert(2, -1)
> >>> a.append(333)
> >>> a
> [66.599999999999994, 333, -1, 333, 1, 1234.5, 333]
> >>> print a
> [66.599999999999994, 333, -1, 333, 1, 1234.5, 333]
> >>> print a.count(66.6)
> 1
> >>>
>
> Why is it converting my 66.6 to 66.599999999999994?

There's a gentle explanation in the development version of the Python
Tutorial, here:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/tut/node14.html




From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Mon Aug 27 04:48:51 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:48:51 +0200
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
References: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9m8uc6$jpj$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <4JUh7.174363$g_3.29796845@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3b8a08fe$0$294$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Maan Hamze wrote:

> Just out of curiousity:
> I use the DataGrid with Delphi 5 (I got into Delphi last year after doing
> work in VB) and it does save lots of time.  Although at times I do my own
> data grid.  But why was it forbidden where you work?

Used to work... Using data-aware controls made for an unpredictable client 
memory and database-server performance consumption, as well as for more
network traffic than we thought necessary.

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 06:22:28 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:22:28 +0200
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
References: <mailman.999222226.8015.python-list@python.org> <3B8F1BE0.6060108@erols.com>
Message-ID: <9mnoh502bce@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message
news:3B8F1BE0.6060108 at erols.com...
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Edward C. Jones wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Has anyone written in C a merge function for sorted Python sequences?
>
> > Sounds interesting, but... and don't take this the wrong way... I can
barely
> > understand what you're trying to say. An example might help.
>
> Here is a Python program that does the same thing:

Yep, but it can be simplified a bit.


> def merge(seq1, seq2):
>      n1 = len(seq1)
>      n2 = len(seq2)
>      i = j = 0
>      merged = []
>      while i < n1 and j < n2:
>          if seq1[i] < seq2[j]:
>             merged.append(seq1[i])
>             i += 1
>          else:
>             merged.append(seq2[j])
>             j += 1

>      if i == n1:
>          tail1 = []
>          tail2 = seq2[j:]
>      else:
>          tail2 = []
>          tail1 = seq1[i:]

This whole if statement is unneded, since seq1[i:]
will "naturally" be [] if i>=len(seq1) [if seq1 is
a list, not another kind of sequence], etc.  So,
you can just remove it and change the following:

>      return merged, tail1, tail2

to:
       return merged+list(seq1[i:])+list(seq2[j:])

(I assume you want to return a single merged list
rather than a tuple of three lists, and that you
don't know whether seq1 and seq2 are lists or other
kinds of sequences -- easy to fix if my assumptions
are off base, of course).


Another interesting approach (probably slower, but
I haven't measured!) might be to make and destructively
use two list-copies of the input sequences:

def mergec(seq1, seq2):
    l1 = list(seq1); l2 = list(seq2)
    merged = []
    while l1 and l2:
        if l1[-1]>l2[-1]:
            merged.append(l1.pop())
        else:
            merged.append(l2.pop())
    l1.reverse(); l2.reverse()
    merged.extend(l1); merged.extend(l2)
    merged.reverse()
    return merged

Note the code is untested (and also based on the
assumption that the result we want is a single
list).  I work from the tail of l1 and l2 as
this is how .pop works, and that's presumably
faster than popping from the front -- but I'm
also appending to the tail of merged at each
step, so merged ends up reversed, which is why
I need the reverse calls before the extend
ones and the final call to reverse at the end.


Alex





From jim.vickroy at noaa.gov  Mon Aug 27 10:47:55 2001
From: jim.vickroy at noaa.gov (jim.vickroy)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:47:55 -0600
Subject: MS Windows COM error - access denied
Message-ID: <3B8A5D9B.D4F80131@noaa.gov>

Hello,

I'm trying to create a Windows *service* that exposes a COM object.

I appear to be registering the COM object, installing the service that
exposes it, and then starting that service.

When I attempt to access the COM object from another process via a
statement of the form:

handle = win32com.client.Dispatch ( entry.COM_server._reg_progid_ )

the following exception is raised:

        com_error: (-2147024891, 'Access is denied.', None, None)

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

If the COM object is not also implemented as a *service*, it can be
accessed with no problem.

The system is:

Python 2.0
MS Windows 2k

Thanks





From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Aug  8 13:59:08 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:59:08 +0200
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20010808195908.A874@xs4all.nl>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 06:25:31PM +0100, Lee wrote:

> Hi there, I wonder if someone could possibly tell me what is wrong with
> the following statement. I'm extremely embarrased to ask but here
> goes...

> >>>  if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
>     vowel='true'

> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<pyshell#46>", line 1, in ?
>     if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
> TypeError: bad operand type(s) for |

'|' is the 'bitwise OR' operator. It takes the numerical values you feed it
(or anything that defines __or__) and OR's them together, bit by bit. 

What you were looking for is the 'logical OR' operator, '||', but applied
differently. You have to do it like this:

    if (fname[1] == 'a' || fname[1] == 'e' || # ... etc...

Or, even better, in a more Pythonic style:

    if (fname[1] in ('a', 'e', 'i', 'o', 'u')):

or, equivalently but slightly more obfuscated:

    if (fname[1] in 'aeiou'):

(The latter works because a string is a sequence too.)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From meaneyedcat at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  2 13:25:56 2001
From: meaneyedcat at hotmail.com (Johnny Cash)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 10:25:56 -0700
Subject: Is there a JPython Mirror?
Message-ID: <e04c3215.0108020925.3f0b53bc@posting.google.com>

I am wondering if there is a Mirror site for JPython? It seems to be
down with python.org.

Thanks!
JC.


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug  2 17:17:31 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 21:17:31 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <cf0a7.58667$EP6.13873011@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B69A572.8C08B7EB@home.net>
Message-ID: <9kcg1b$hei$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Chris Barker <chrishbarker at home.net>:
| Terry Reedy wrote:
|> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
|> news:9ka118$mj8$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
|>> And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
|>> He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
|>> of figure it out himself.
|> 
|> What we need here are better error messages: a more explicit 'none
|> object is not subscriptable' might have steered him to the problem.
|
| That would help, as would any number of debugging techniques that any
| Python programmer with any experience would know. However, these would
| only work if, in fact the author checked his code with invalid data. It
| could be a long time before an error like that was found. Frankly, not
| thinking to handle the case of invalid data would be likely to bite you
| in any language, and I imagine that it is rare that type checking would
| find it very often.

Not sure what that last clause meant (rare that ... very often?) but
I guess this depends on the relationship between "thinking to handle
the case of invalid data" and type consistency.

If you decide to ignore his probable intention (did he think about
invalid inputs or not?), then the flaw in his program really was a
inconsistency between the function that could return None and caller
who failed to account for that.  Either in isolation is arguably fine
(maybe None is the right thing to return for an unmatched case), the
problem is that they don't match, an inconsistency that could have
been caught.

Of course a program can be written that will be perfectly type
consistent but still vulnerable to unexpected inputs.  But on
the other hand, you can use the enforced consistency of a type
checking language to help avoid accidents of that nature.
>From this point of view the language is not just the rules, but
the idioms that apply those rules as a programming tool.  If you
use type checking in this more active sense, I bet you can avoid
a significant number of unexpected input problems.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Wed Aug  8 20:06:59 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:06:59 GMT
Subject: a break for comprehensions
References: <mailman.996515638.21022.python-list@python.org> <ac677656.0107301331.5330d4db@posting.google.com> <Pyk97.4104$9i1.318163@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <U9H97.163512$EF2.22005506@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <ac677656.0108011124.53b4af52@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Dukc7.237464$EF2.29204130@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Tom Good <Tom_Good1 at excite.com> menulis:
| 
| You've inspired me to start writing a list-like wrapper for
| generators.  Here is what I have so far.  It combines some list syntax
| with lazy evaluation, and supports (some) slice operations on
| unbounded generators.
| [snip]
| 
| def main():
|     def gen():
|         x = 0
|         while 1:
|             x += 1
|             yield x
| 
|     glist = GenList(gen())
|     print glist[4]
|     print glist[:10]

This is neat :)  It looks like your class will work with any iterator,
not just generators.  So you could use it with, say, file objects:

file = GenList(iter(open('file.txt')))
print file[4]
print file[3:17]
# etc.

Also, I would propose adding

def __add__(iter1, iter2):
    def f():
        for val in iter1:
            yield val
        for val in iter2:
            yield val
    return GenList(f)

Then you can do stuff like the following, which simulates the Unix 'cat'
command (warning: untested):

files = reduce(lambda x, y: x+y, GenList(iter(open(sys.argv[1:]))))
for line in files:
    print line,


-- 
Cliff Crawford                           http://www.sowrong.org/
"Today's Goths, who generally tend to be in their teens and 20s,
have nothing to do with the Germanic Visigoths of Europe in the
third and fourth centuries A.D."               -- Jimmy Stewart


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Wed Aug 29 09:19:45 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:19:45 +0100
Subject: html viewer/pane for pmw/Tkinter?
References: <mailman.998915261.29816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8CEBF1.E4576B51@westerngeco.com>

Ken,


I found one some time ago inside PTUI (search the vaults)  it is VERY basic
(no images...) but may be a starting point. the module is called
ptHTMLViewer.py
I think<g>


Martin


Ken Guest wrote:
> 
> hi, does anybody know if there is a HTML viewer widget available for
> PMW/Tkinter?
> Specifically, I want to be able to display  formatted HTML inside the
> GUI of a python app.
> 
> thanks
> 
> k.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 16:01:20 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:01:20 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com>

"liam" <lcampbell at ubytes.com> wrote in message
news:Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813 at nnrp5-w.sbc.net...
> is there a data type like the const in c/c++? ive been combing through the
> doc and it doesnt seem to have one or am i missing something somewhere?

A reasonably popular solution is my "Constants in Python" recipe at:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207


Alex





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 11:28:39 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:28:39 -0500
Subject: (beginner) question on threads...
In-Reply-To: <Xns910EAD0A59682PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
References: <Xns910EAD0A59682PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <15247.44327.171397.922965@beluga.mojam.com>

    Fred> Off to a bad start, I made the following simple-minded change :

    Fred> in class BaseHTTPRequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler) :

    Fred> in def handle(self) :

    Fred> the last line : method()  # generally self.do_GET()
    Fred> becomes :       thread.start_new_thread(method, () )

I think you can just create a suitable subclass of SocketServer.TCPServer.
In my XML-RPC server, I did:

    class GenericServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn, SocketServer.TCPServer):
        """generic XML-RPC server class"""
        ...

Each request to my server is handled in a separate thread.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug  4 11:43:53 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:43:53 -0500
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
In-Reply-To: <E15T338-0001lh-00@imp.aerie>
References: <E15T338-0001lh-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <15212.6201.691273.445186@beluga.mojam.com>

    zooko> After spending many hours tracking down weird race conditions in
    zooko> Mojo Nation[1], I've finally realized that the problem is that we
    zooko> assumed that `time.time()' would return non-decreasing answers.
    zooko> In fact, successive calls to `time.time()' can return a *smaller*
    zooko> number than previous calls, as demonstrated by this test (Python
    zooko> 2.0 on debian woody):

    zooko> import time 

    zooko> x = 0 
    zooko> while 1: 
    zooko>     ox = x 
    zooko>     x = time.time() 
    zooko>     if x < ox: 
    zooko>         print "this is WRONG: ox: %s, x: %s\n" % (ox, x,) 
    zooko>     else: 
    zooko>         print ".", 

How long should I wait for this to print out an error message?  On my
Mandrake 8.0 system running Python 2.1.1 I'm letting it run (and run, and
run) and have not so far seen a problem.  Actually, I modified your script
slightly:

    import sys
    import time

    x = 0
    i = 0
    while 1: 
        ox = x 
        x = time.time() 
        if x < ox: 
            print "this is WRONG: ox: %s, x: %s\n" % (ox, x,) 
            break
        else: 
            i = i + 1
            if i % 10000 == 0:
                sys.stdout.write(".")
                sys.stdout.flush()

so that it wouldn't print so many dots and exit once it detects an error.

Are you using threads, perchance?  I can envision a situation in a
multithreading environment where two threads call time.time, but because of
scheduling differences you could be comparing them with a wrong assumption.

If the time() or ftime() calls on your Debian system can actually return
decreasing values, that's where the problem lies, not in Python.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 21:11:54 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:11:54 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com>

Neil Schemenauer <nas at python.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.998582617.17836.python-list at python.org>...
> The object "lst" does not have some hidden attribute that 
> is a list. It really is itself a list object.  That's the 
> way things are implemented. Using some other mental model 
> is bound to get you into trouble sooner or later.

This gets to the nub of the matter. Let's take your example:

    class MyList(list):
        pass

    lst = MyList()

So "lst" is really a list. But it also is really an object,
instantiated from a class. So one can do things like:

    lst.a = "I just created attribute 'a'."
    lst.b = []

This is correct, right? Or is the idea that we will have two
species of classes, "types," which don't allow statements like
the above, and "true classes" which do? Anyway, assuming my
extension to the example is allowed, it now looks to me that
"lst" is (has been promoted to?) an object with three 
attributes:

    x.a == "I just created attribute 'a'."
    x.b == []
    x == []           # The default attribute

There is something that bothers me about this, but with my
sore forehead, I am unable to articulate it. Of course, I'm
even more distressed if it turns out that assigning attributes
to lst is not allowed, since this violates what I know about 
how "class" works. (And since we can now assign attributes 
even to lowly functions, why not to a type-derived class??)
If the intended model is the "two classes of class," can they 
be mixed in multiple inheritance?

    class Centaur(SomeTrueClass, MyList):
        pass

Will this generate an error? Or what about:

    class Mosaic(SomeTrueClass, dictionary):
        pass

And if I can't mix true classes with types, can I mix types?

    class Confused(dictionary, int):
        pass

    spegg = Confused()

Is "spegg" really a dictionary? Really an int? Really an 
object? Or is all of this disallowed, and we now have some 
fairly complex rules about how you may or may not use two 
classes of class? 

Oh, my poor forehead!

Russell


From rsalmon at tulane.edu  Thu Aug 16 14:52:20 2001
From: rsalmon at tulane.edu (Rene Salmon)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 11:52:20 -0700
Subject: does popen3 thow exceptions? how to erro check?
Message-ID: <57ffe515.0108161052.3b5e3422@posting.google.com>

Hello,

First I have spent lots of time on this and looked at the mailing list
and the python site and I am still not clear on how to do this so I am
posting this message.

I am trying to write a python script to change or add a users samba
passwd
this can be done by running "smbpasswd -a -s"

man smbpasswd
 -s   This option causes smbpasswd to be silent (i.e. not
               issue prompts) and to read it's old and new passwords
               from standard input, rather than from /dev/tty (like
               the passwd(1) program does). This option is to aid
               people writing scripts to drive smbpasswd



This python code seems to work great it does indeed change the samba
password or add the user if the user does not exist.

         #run smbpasswd to add user to samba
        (child_stdin,child_stdout,child_stderr)=os.popen3("smbpasswd
-a -s","t")
        
        child_stdin.write(new_passwd)
        child_stdin.write(new_passwd)
        child_stdin.close()
        child_stderr.close()
        child_stdout.close()
    

How do I check this code to make sure that there was no error when
running it??
say I mistype 

(child_stdin,child_stdout,child_stderr)=os.popen3("badcommand -a
-s","t")

I the program still completes and produces no errors. I tryed
enclosing the code
in a try: and except: block but that did not work   

I also tried getting the file descriptor from the file objects
child_stdin
using fileno() and checking the status of the file descriptor with
fstat() but that always returned true that file descriptor always gets
created.

any ideas on how to error check popen3?

Thank you for any help or hints you can give me
please respond to me as I am not subscribed to the list.

Rene


From bawolk at ucdavis.edu  Sun Aug 26 14:45:12 2001
From: bawolk at ucdavis.edu (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:45:12 -0700
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
References: <feSh7.174252$g_3.29600684@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <f07iot0er3flsm4nbh0gegvld4gssfuti0@4ax.com> <sYai7.176823$g_3.30926720@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3B8943B8.4E9732E@ucdavis.edu>

>>> x = 1 + 3j
>>> x.real
1.0
>>> x.imag
3.0
>>>


Maan Hamze wrote:

> if x is a complex number = a + bj
> is there any built in finction that can return the real and imaginary values
> of x?
> Something like:
> r = real(x) = a and
> s=img(x) = b
> I can not find something like that.
> Maan
>



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 05:51:14 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:51:14 +0200
Subject: generics rule (was Re: New Python User Question about Python.)
References: <mailman.998816920.4899.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9md56i01m7f@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote in message
news:mailman.998816920.4899.python-list at python.org...
    ...
"""
Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
    [snipped]
Your statement about the rarity of generic programming might apply to
you (although I doubt it) but in general its just plain wrong.
"""

Seconded.  Signature-based polymorphism is very natural and
spontaneous: just as soon as good C++ programmers are introduced
to it, they tend to jump on it and use it in preference to
inheritance-based polymorphism wherever possible -- despite
the practical issues with debugging templates in C++, etc.
This is my experience as a teacher of C++ and consultant on
C++ issues, as well as that of C++ expert user.

Specifically, getting in contact with the Standard C++ Library
(often misnamed the STL) and such additional libraries as Boost
(www.boost.org) and the ATL (Microsoft's best framework for COM
in Visual C++ 6) is generally sufficient for the "introduced to
it" part.  As soon as one is using the Standard Library, ATL,
etc, a very large part of one's coding becomes generic (based
on templates) just to get maximum mileage out of those excellent
frameworks/libraries.  Of course, that goes for Python as well,
where almost everything you do enjoys signature-based polymorphism
(except where durned *type tests* deliberately break things!-).


Alex (Brainbench MVP for C++)





From johan at johanjonkers.com  Thu Aug  9 02:51:19 2001
From: johan at johanjonkers.com (Johan Jonkers)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:51:19 +0200
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
References: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net>
Message-ID: <9ktbpa$1tf$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>

Mark Sass wrote:

> Hi all,
>     I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want to
> call on an object.  How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
> function call?  Here is an example
> 
> funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
> x = len(funclist)
> y = 0
> while y < x:
>     value = testobj.funclist[y]
>     y = y +1
> 
funclist = ['func1', 'func2', 'func3']
for func in funclist:
        exec('value = testobj.%(func)s()' % locals())
        print value

This will iterate the the list of functions and will call them and store 
the return value in the variable called 'value', which can be used as a 
regular variable after the exec-call

> This way I could grow the list of functions to be called without coding
> more like the way I am doing it now. I would like to avoid doing the
> following:
> 
> value = testobj.func1()
> value = testobj.func2()
> value = testobj.func3()
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Thanks,
>     Mark Sass
> 
Johan Jonkers


From brueckd at tbye.com  Tue Aug 28 10:27:39 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Multithreading support for BaseHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <3b8b7daf.699296734@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280724430.20552-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

> I'm using a BaseHTTPServer to serve up data dynamically. Some pages
> take time to process, so I would like to make a multithread server
> where serving up one page doesn't block any other.
>
> Looking into SocketServer.py, I found that both ThreadingTCPServer and
> ForkingTCPServer are available. However, when changing
[snip]
> in BaseHTTPServer, I get an error

Hi Gerson,
Don't change BaseHTTPServer, just create your own subclass:

class GersonServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn, \
                   BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
  pass

# Use it like this
addr = ('',5555)
server = GersonServer(addr, YourRequestHandlerClass)
server.serve_forever()

HTH,
-Dave




From guido at python.org  Thu Aug  2 09:49:52 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:49:52 GMT
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org> <20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <cpg0bay3l5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Alex <new_name at mit.edu> writes:

> Actually, are the mailing lists mirrored anywhere?  I've gotten stuck a
> couple of times for the want of them.

The mailing lists are on mail.python.org which is totally unaffected
by the outage.  Nothing should stop you from using the mailing lists!
Mail with an @python.org address (like mine) is also unaffected.

Only www.python.org, ftp.python.org, and search.python.org are
affected.

We're working on a new site, but it may be a few days -- CNRI's
backups are so incomplete that we've decided to clone one of the
mirrors to recover the data.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 06:31:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:31:22 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lo5ua0g3p@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xsneoijz7.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> > Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient and a language that lets
> > me workaround a limitation in the design of a framework or library
> > I need to use is just what I need.
>
> The trouble is, the very existence of a workaround is sometimes itself
> a limitation, e.g. in implementing an applet sandbox.

It would be, yes, IF untrusted code subject to restricted-mode execution
had full access to such workarounds.  Fortunately, this is not the case
with Python: the runtime knows when it's executing code 'restrictedly'
(thus, presumably, untrusted code), by the simple test of checking if
the current global namespace dictionary's __builtin__ refers to
something else than the true __builtins__.  Restricted code doesn't
have full introspection abilities, and this lets you sandbox it in.

E.g., try the following in an interactive session:

>>> realthing = __builtins__
>>> class X:
...   def f(self): print self
...
>>> x=X()
>>> x.f()
<__main__.X instance at 007994DC>
>>> x.__dict__
{}
>>> X.__dict__
{'f': <function f at 0079A18C>, '__doc__': None, '__module__': '__main__'}
>>> __builtins__=__builtins__.__dict__.copy()
>>> x.f()
<__main__.X instance at 007994DC>
>>> X.__dict__
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: class.__dict__ not accessible in restricted mode
>>> __builtins__ = realthing
>>> X.__dict__
{'f': <function f at 0079A18C>, '__doc__': None, '__module__': '__main__'}
>>>

Here, we saved a reference to the real-thing builtins, so we could
proclaim ourselves trusted again by re-assigning __builtins__ (of
course, you normally wouldn't supply that 'real-thing' to untrusted
code:-).  But as long as our __builtins__ didn't refer to the
real thing, we were untrusted and thus running in restricted
mode.  Since you clearly do have to be selective in what builtins
you let a piece of untrusted code access, identifying restricted
mode with non-kosher __builtins__ kills two birds with one stone.


> > > Python is a general purpose programming language and its design should
> > > not be significantly compromised to make a particular (uncommon) usage
> > > more convenient i.e. security environments.
> >
> > Yep.  Besides, rexec and Bastion (could use some spiffying up,
> > but) are pretty good for this.
>
> I'll check into those.  However, a true general purpose language
> should be useable in all environments.

I differ from this philosophy, which seems to shade into a "one
language to bind them all" design guideline.  For example, I
consider machine-language to be "a true general purpose"
one, but that doesn't imply it has to be decenty deployable
in all environments -0- it's QUITE reasonable to require that
a binary-compatible machine or emulator thereof be part of
any environment in which the language is "useable".

In other terms, "all environments" is a serious overbid, I
believe.  Is there a good Common Lisp compiler/runtime
for a 4-bit microcontroller with 4KB ROM and 256 bytes
of RAM?  Probably not, but that doesn't mean Lisp isn't
"a true general purpose language", as long as it's deployable
in all *SUITABLE* environments -- ones 'powerful' enough
in terms of available hardware and software resources
(enough CPU power, ROM/storage, RAM, and underlying
software infrastructure).


> If Python had Scheme-like lexical closures, that might be enough
> to solve this particular problem.

It has lexical closures where a name at an intermediate
scope cannot be rebound from code in a nested scope,
somewhat like Java in this specific respect -- midway
between Scheme, that lets all names be freely rebound
(well, ALMOST all names), and Haskell, which doesn't
support the very concept of rebinding in any context
(I know there are better examples than Haskell for the
concept of single-assignment languages, it's just that
none comes to mind right now:-).


Alex





From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 18:42:15 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:42:15 GMT
Subject: Beginner's questions
References: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B6C7889.2D48F393@yahoo.com>

Lad wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I am a Perl programmer but I miss some things in Perl. For this
> reason I am looking for another, better (if any) programming
> language. Maybe Python would be my choice. Can you please
> answer the following?
> 1.How well threads are implemented in Python particularly under
> windows?

Don't know, sorry.

> 2.Are there any libraries for working with HTTP protocols that is
> modules that could help download( grab) web pages with GET
> methods and modules for using  also POST method without
> necessity to program these applications with sockets?
> 3.Are there any libraries for SMTP, POP3 and NNTP protocols?

All of that is in the standard python distribution. See section 11 of the
library reference.

> 4. Is there a program for making executable files from python
> programs?

freeze.py in the Tools directory of the python distribution.
I have not used it. The resulting executables are usually not small.

> 5. What modules , except Tk, can I use for GUI programming with
> Python?

gtk, qt, wxWindows, FLTK, FOX, more... 

> 6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web
> browser directly or in other words display html file in python
> application?

Sorry, I don't understand. You want to start a browser and have it show the
contents of an html file? That would depend on the platform and browser, but on
unix I'd do something like this:

import os
os.system("netscape %s" % my_file_name)

> 7. Where can I find a available modules list?

You should've asked this question first. :)

The Standard Library Reference:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html

For stuff that doesn't come with the distribution, search the Vaults of
Parnassus:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

> 8. What are best tutorials/books on Python?

I like O'Reilly's "Learning Python". I too came here from perl and found it a
great introduction from that perspective.

> 9. Can you give me  examples of large Python application?

Zope is probably the best-known large Python app.
http://www.zope.org

> 10. Why do YOU use Python?

It's easy to understand the code (mine and others'). And it's fun!
Also, the interactive prompt is the best calculator I've ever had. :)

> 11. Is it possible to to "talk" to java applets via Python?

Sorry, I don't know about this. But there is a Java implementation of python
called Jython that may be what you need.

-- 
...................    paul winkler   ....................
custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
       A member of ARMS:   http://www.reacharms.com
            home page:  http://www.slinkp.com


From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 16:53:49 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:53:49 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <3B8FF768.825CE963@home.net>
Message-ID: <xPSj7.75$j9.610@castor.casema.net>

Thabnk you very much. I'll answerthe others tomorrow evening couse i have to
sleep now.
"Chris Barker" <chrishbarker at home.net> schreef in bericht
news:3B8FF768.825CE963 at home.net...
> I'm not sure why I am bothering ot help you, as you have been pretty
> rude, but you got an interesting discussion going earlier (and a great
> quote about VB from someone (sorry I forgot who---Alex Martelli?)
>
> There are quite a few GUI toolkits for Python available, but for a
> newbie like yourself, TK is probably the best option: only because it
> comes with the standard distribution, and has a little more
> documentation that the others.
>
> jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:
> >
> > This site about tkinter really sucks!
> > http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-tkinter.htm
>
> Actually , it is a very nice tutorial
>
> > look what they say:
> > # File: hello1.py
> >
> > from Tkinter import *
> > >>>>>> error!!!!!!!!! this filke does not exists it has to be _tkinter
>
> There is nothing wrong with the tutorial, but there is something wrong
> with your Python installation, TKinter is not installed correctly. The
> fact that this is not obvious to you makes it clear that you have not
> yet learned the fundementals of Python. As someone suggested to you
> earlier, GUI programming is NOT the easiest thing to learn in Python,
> and I've found that most GUI toolkit tutorial assume that you understand
> quite a bit about how Python works alleady. When I set out to learn
> wxWin, fairly early in my Python career, I was stumped until Iwent back
> and learned about OO programming in Python. Once I did that, I could
> easily understand the docs and examples.
>
>
> So, what you need to do is:
>
> 1) Learn some more about Python itself, for NON-GUI things. Go through
> the Python tutorial at:
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html
> or start with one of these:
>
> http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/
>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>
> Ask your basic questions on:
>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
> Once you have a grasp of Python the language, it is time to start
> learning to use a GUI toolkit. Choose one (TKinter is a fine choice) and
> go through it's tutorials. If
>
> "from TKinter import *" fails, you have an installation problem. Post a
> note to the tutor list, or here, GIVING DETAILS ABOUT HOW YOU INSTALLED
> PYTHON, and you will get help, Also, be polite. If you are frustrated,
> remember that you have not given money (or anythoing else) to anyone
> here, so they are under no oblicgation to help.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Christopher Barker,
> Ph.D.
> ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
> http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
>                                    ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
> Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
> Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------
> Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------




From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 15:27:10 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:27:10 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <danvot096t6fereltm5juv2fo6jhnnq9n0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <iyRj7.61$j9.327@castor.casema.net>

ooh, python don't makes error's like that. I have version 2.2 i think. Can
anyone help moi?
"Sheila King" <sheila at spamcop.net> schreef in bericht
news:danvot096t6fereltm5juv2fo6jhnnq9n0 at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:47:40 GMT, "jeroen paul goudsmit"
> <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <gZQj7.55$j9.417 at castor.casema.net>:
>
> :This site about tkinter really sucks!
> :http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-tkinter.htm
> :look what they say:
> :# File: hello1.py
> :
> :from Tkinter import *
> :>>>>>> error!!!!!!!!! this filke does not exists it has to be _tkinter
> :
> :root = Tk()
> :
> :>>>>>>>>> error!!! methode not found
> :
> :w = Label(root, text="Hello, world!")
> :>>>>>>>. error, label not defined. .....
> :w.pack()
> :
> :root.mainloop()
>
> What version of Python are you running? I've never seen Python make
> error messages that look like that.
>
> If the statement
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> generates error messages, it makes me think that you don't have
> Tk/Tkinter installed properly???
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/
>
>




From nas at python.ca  Tue Aug 14 12:29:25 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:29:25 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <9lamme017m7@enews1.newsguy.com>; from aleax@aleax.it on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 10:15:10AM +0200
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lamme017m7@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010814092925.B18316@glacier.fnational.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Zope's persistency support manages this without assignment to
> > __class__.  A persistent object has three states: ghost, valid, and
> 
> Yes, and AMK has, it seems to me, posted eloquently as to
> how and why this is a kludge (or at least that's how I
> read AMK's posts on this thread), made necessary by the
> extension-class disabling (effectively) __class__ changes.

You can have the ability to efficiently subclass builtin
types or the ability to assign to __class__.  Pick one.  I would choose
the first any day.  The effect of second can usually be achieved in some
other way.

Regarding Andrew's problem with extension-class disabling __class__
changes: I worked around it.  It wasn't too bad.

  Neil



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 13:05:59 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:05:59 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk> <8jjmmtkfpsga1jam9vsfjrs82iulkd05an@4ax.com> <9kgnq912p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <alaomtk4neti850qifpgmp1396cofeot2r@4ax.com>

>> I'd say that Java's three biggest reasons for success are hype,
>> marketing,
>
>You write as if there was a distinction between these two...?-)

Well all they hype was spread by word of mouth. Marketing hype
was spread by evil corporate interests. But, no matter. Would you
rather "I'd say that Java's three biggest reasons for success are
hype, hype, and the kitchen sink." :)

>And note that Java's KS is *strictly* on the (huge) libraries -- the
>language itself, far from KS'ing, still hasn't integrated CRUCIAL
>improvements such as generics, ...

Can't you download an implementation from Sun now?

C//



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug  4 16:29:11 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:29:11 -0500
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
In-Reply-To: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie>
References: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <15212.23320.31927.755668@beluga.mojam.com>

    zooko> Hm.  strace tells me that this is what is happening:

    ...
    zooko> gettimeofday({996940586, 982859}, NULL) = 0
    zooko> gettimeofday({996940586, 976989}, NULL) = 0
    ...

Okay, I think I understand now.  The tv_usec field in a timeval struct
represents microseconds.  Apparently something about your system (the kernel
or hardware clock, most likely) does not have microsecond resolution, so
most of the bits in the tv_usec field are garbage.  This may be something
that could be addressed in Python's configuration (a little C program that
measures the resolution of gettimeofday), but I'm no expert on timekeeping,
so I don't know what's necessary.  If you could amend your bug report with
the strace output it would be helpful to whoever gets assigned your bug
report.

Skip



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 19 00:21:07 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:21:07 -0500
Subject: getting rid of data movement instructions
Message-ID: <15231.16051.450184.416719@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> If you want some performance boost, think about ways you might delete
    >> about 90% of those instructions. ;-)

    Alex> Hmmm, I'll byte -- by having joined LOAD_this_STORE_that bytecodes
    Alex> (5 kinds of loads, 3 kinds of stores, that's 15 new bytecodes) and
    Alex> a few call-and-poptop ones?  And a peephole optimizer to change
    Alex> the bytecode stream coming from the current compiler to one using
    Alex> the new bytecodes (and making a few more minor opts while he's at
    Alex> it)...?

I'm not sure I can parse that paragraph.

    Alex> Or am I missing something obvious...?  'cause I don't think that
    Alex> would delete 90% of the datamovement instructions -- maybe 30 to
    Alex> 40% or so...?

Well, perhaps 90% is too optimistic, but I think the target should
eventually be closer to 90% than 30%, though it won't be anywere near either
number real soon at the rate I'm going.  Let me expose my quite possibly
flawed thinking on the subject.

While I'm writing this I'm staring at a slightly modified version of a
dynamic opcode frequency table Marc-Andre Lemburg posted to python-dev
awhile back, so I figure others who've read this far might be interested in
it.  I zapped SET_LINENO frequencies because python -O already takes care
of them and attached percentages to his raw counts.


        LOAD_FAST: 19323126 (20.08%)      BINARY_SUBSCR:  1834612 ( 1.91%)
       LOAD_CONST:  9254683 ( 9.62%)      JUMP_ABSOLUTE:  1648327 ( 1.71%)
        LOAD_NAME:  8218954 ( 8.54%)       STORE_SUBSCR:  1446307 ( 1.50%)
      LOAD_GLOBAL:  7174876 ( 7.45%)       JUMP_FORWARD:  1014821 ( 1.05%)
       STORE_FAST:  5927769 ( 6.16%)    BINARY_SUBTRACT:   910085 ( 0.95%)
          POP_TOP:  5587424 ( 5.81%)          POP_BLOCK:   806160 ( 0.84%)
    CALL_FUNCTION:  5404709 ( 5.62%)       STORE_GLOBAL:   779880 ( 0.81%)
    JUMP_IF_FALSE:  5289262 ( 5.50%)           FOR_LOOP:   735245 ( 0.76%)
       COMPARE_OP:  4495179 ( 4.67%)         SETUP_LOOP:   657432 ( 0.68%)
        LOAD_ATTR:  3481878 ( 3.62%)      BINARY_MODULO:   610121 ( 0.63%)
       BINARY_ADD:  3420811 ( 3.55%)            SLICE+2:   530811 ( 0.55%)
     RETURN_VALUE:  2221212 ( 2.31%)            SLICE+1:   530657 ( 0.55%)
       STORE_NAME:  2176228 ( 2.26%)    BINARY_MULTIPLY:   392274 ( 0.41%)
       STORE_ATTR:  2085338 ( 2.17%)       SETUP_EXCEPT:   285523 ( 0.30%)


Here are my current crop of ideas in a nutshell.

Implement PEP 266.  Most global variable accesses and attribute expressions
anchored by global variables (e.g. "math.sin") thus become locals as far as
the virtual machine is concerned.  The small number of STORE_GLOBAL and
STORE_ATTR instructions suggests that my "almost constant" assumption for
globals is a reasonable one.  (It would be nice to have DXPAIR profiling as
well to see how many STORE_ATTRs follow LOAD_GLOBALs.  Anybody wanting to
generate some can check ceval.c for details.  It's not hard to do, you just
need to be able to sacrifice some performance on a significant suite of
programs and instrument your code slightly to save the instruction
frequencies.  Hmmm... Maybe we could create a little dxpair project.  I
could make an XML-RPC server available to which people could dump their
results... hmm... hmm...)

Implement a three-address virtual machine where the current fastlocals+stack
space in frame objects are treated as a single register file.  Most
instructions' sources and destinations will be local variables that will be
read or written by the instruction that uses them, not by another pass
around the interpreter's main loop to copy data onto or off of the stack.
With proper optimization of the bytecode, this is where I expect to see the
biggest reduction in data movement instructions.

Modify frame objects so they have space for the function's constants next to
the fastlocals array.  Initialize that storage at function startup.
Function constants then look like local variables to opcodes that take their
sources from registers.  If initialization is expensive (and I doubt it will
be), you can play a few tricks, such as initializing constant slot 0 (which
is always a reference to Py_None) once per frame object, or caching frame
objects on a per function basis so you can skip constant initialization most
of the time.

Instructions like POP_TOP, DUP_TOP, ROT_TWO, and ROT_THREE effectively
disappear.  (All except POP_TOP occur rarely, anyway.)

Breakage of this model occurs for a number of opcodes such as CALL_FUNCTION,
BUILD_TUPLE, BUILD_LIST and UNPACK_SEQUENCE.  With the exception of
CALL_FUNCTION, they all occur rarely.  I'd like to have some dynamic data
that suggest how many parameters functions take on average.  A quick look at
the static frequencies (gotten by disassembling the pyo files in the top
level of the standard library) suggests that about 75% of functions take 0
or 1 parameters.  Perhaps 5-7% of the LOADs and STOREs (roughly equal to the
number of CALL_FUNCTION instructions) would have to be preserved.  Depending
how smart you were you might or might not be able to elide some of the loads
or stores involved with the CALL_FUNCTION.  (I doubt I'm that smart.)

The line in MAL's table that has me scratching my head is the one that
indicates about 8.5% of all instructions executed in his mix are LOAD_NAMEs.
My understanding is that LOAD_NAME is only generated in the presence of
"from m import *" or "exec".  Either the code that MAL profiled was unusual
in this respect or there's a lot more of this lookup-busting code being
executed than I thought.  Taking a look at my dis output suggests that
LOAD_NAME actually occurs rarely.  Here are the static frequencies of the
various LOAD_* instructions:

    10915       LOAD_FAST
     6704       LOAD_CONST
     4236       LOAD_GLOBAL
     3024       LOAD_ATTR
       17       LOAD_NAME

MAL must have had a very hot bit of code containing LOAD_NAMEs for it to
account for over 8% of his dynamic instruction mix.  Other than that, the
most frequently occurring instructions in both his dynamic table and the
static frequencies I generated are pretty similar.  Here are the top
occurring static instructions:

  10915 LOAD_FAST (18.52%)                 3024 LOAD_ATTR (5.13%)    
   6825 POP_TOP (11.58%)                   2615 JUMP_IF_FALSE (4.44%)
   6704 LOAD_CONST (11.37%)                2430 JUMP_FORWARD (4.12%) 
   4236 LOAD_GLOBAL (7.19%)                2139 RETURN_VALUE (3.63%) 
   4235 CALL_FUNCTION (7.18%)              1753 COMPARE_OP (2.97%)   
   4218 STORE_FAST (7.16%)                  988 BINARY_ADD (1.68%)   

I'm not quite sure what to make of the relatively large number of JUMP
instructions in the static frequencies, but the more frequently they occur,
the smaller the size of the average basic block will be (which limits the
range of instructions over which many optimizations can be made).

The difference between the dynamic and static frequencies of POP_TOP is
accounted for by considering that the compiler generates two POP_TOP
instructions for each conditional jump, one at the head of both branches the
code might take, but obviously only one of them is executed for any given
branch.  (I'm not sure why the conditional branch opcodes don't take care of
popping the stack themselves.)

Well, I've strayed pretty far afield.  If nothing else it should serve to
make some of my reasoning visible for others to critique.  There's obviously
no algorithm here in which I turn the crank and spit out a "90%" reduction
figure.  Still, while ambitious, I think it's a fair upper bound on what's
possible.

Anyone interested working on any of this, let me know.  I have a crude start
on a couple pieces, but have no time to work on it enough to make much
progress.  Every time I put my brain back together after it explodes I'm
drawn away to something else.

but-then-who-isn't?-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 17 23:36:54 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:36:54 -0700
Subject: Is this function attribute weirdness a feature or bug?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108172303020.19877-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7DE2D6.FEC47295@alcyone.com>

Roy Katz wrote:

> I am using Python 2.2a1.  This works ok:
> 
>   def f(): pass
>   f.att = 3
> 
> HOWEVER--this:
> 
>   class C:
>       def g(): pass
> 
>   C.g.att = 3
> 
> yields:
> 
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>    TypeError: read-only attribute: att

The former is a function (which supports function attributes).  The
latter is a method, which is a beast of a different color.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nobody's interested in sweetness and light.
\__/ Hedda Hopper
    Alcyone Systems / http://www.alcyone.com/
 Alcyone Systems, San Jose, California.


From cbarber at curl.com  Mon Aug  6 11:17:30 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 11:17:30 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:

> Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message 
> > You didn't respond to my comments on potential for performance gains.  
> > Can I assume that I scored a point?  ;-)
> 
> Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
> improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
> consideration.

It could be pretty expensive to move all of your code to a faster language if
you discover that Python is not good enough.  Sometimes you can write C
extensions for the slow parts, but in some cases you will have to start over.
 
> I figure that there are about five applications in the world that qualify,
> and they're written in assembler.  (The other candidates have migrated
> to hardware.)  They, and their techniques, are less relevant to most
> of us than F1 racecars.

Don't be silly.  Try to write a 3D game entirely in Python without using any
extensions.  You won't stand a chance.  Once you have to resort to extensions,
you aren't talking about Python anymore but C.

Don't get me wrong, Python is a great language and is useful for many types of
applications, but it is ridiculous to say that there aren't a significant
number of applications for which it does not have the required performance.

- Christopher


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Thu Aug 16 11:03:10 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:03:10 +0100
Subject: newbie question: using Python to coordinate C++ program and use gnuplot
References: <3B771A9C.3BB8317@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7BE0AE.80305@herts.ac.uk>

Hey

Eduardo Zea wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Can someone suggest a good place to look for info on achieving the
> following kind of tasks:
> 
> 1) I have a C++ program that reads a file with parameters (say
> parameters.txt) and runs a simulation, then produces an output file (say
> output.txt). I want to write a Python program that loops over the
> parameter values and on each loop does this:
> 
> 1. Updates parameters.txt
> 2. Runs the C++ program with the updated file
> 3. Renames the output of the C++ program according to the simulation
> number, e.g. output1.txt


You could try something along the lines of the following. I don't know 
how you pass parameters to your c++ program I have assumed it is a 
command line option.

import os

def = 'output'
def_ext = '.txt'
paramfile = open('parameters.txt', 'r')
count = 1
for param in paramfile.readlines():
	os.system('c++ program name', param)
	os.rename(de, '%s%s%s' % (def, count, def_ext)

I hope that helps (always a pleasure to help a fellow biologist ;)), I 
don't know about gnuplot so I'll leave that to someone more knowledgable 
than I.

blobby



From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Mon Aug 13 12:49:49 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:49:49 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Beta 2
Message-ID: <20010813124949.P1698@naxos.starmedia.net>

Version 3.0beta2 of The SkunkWeb Web Application Server has just been
released.

The release is available from the SkunkWeb home page at
	http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net

or directly from 
        http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/skunkweb/skunkweb-3.0beta2.tgz

What's new?
------------------------------
* Many updates to the Operations Manual
* new manual for PyDO
* added a FAQ
* bugfixes to configure script (no longer requires *GNU* Make or *GNU* install)
* sessionHandler bugfixes
* added a PostgreSQL session store for sessionHandler
* bugfixes to the PyDO package
* ubiquitous minor tweaks

What is it?
------------------------------
SkunkWeb is (yet another) web application server.  The things that make it
different from other app servers are:

Uses Python
	* Python is easy to learn for both new programmers and experts alike
	* senior programmer types like it too (vs. say tcl)
        * extensible with Python, of course
	* extensible with C/C++ for speed and/or linkage to C/C++ libraries
          via static *or* dynamic linking

Extensible
	* Relatively simple extension API
	* can easily handle authentication, custom url building/parsing 
          schemes and custom tags

Encourages component based design
	* more than just "include"
	* not just another ASP/JSP like thing
	* a powerful templating language 
	* encouraged by caching options (see below)
	* component output can be either HTML or Python objects
	* can write components in either STML or Python
	* can also call components on other skunkweb servers
	
Message Catalogs
	* makes multi-lingual sites much easier
	* support variable substitution in messages

Speed
	* templates are compiled to Python bytecode
	* extensive caching (to disk and optionally memory) of:
		o compiled forms of templates
		o digested message catalogs
		o output of components
		o python modules and python components
	* cache *is* sharable between machines if using a
	  shared filesystem! (can be more than one shared filesystem
          for speed, redundancy and flexibility)
	* caching is flexible and as finite as your disk space
	* components can be rendered after the response is sent if 
	  a slightly stale version is available --- resulting in
	  better response times via deferred components

Documentation
	* extensive documentation available in HTML, PostScript, PDF & text
          --well not yet, but getting there
	* have automatic documentation tools to generate documentation for 
	  STML templates (but don't use the manual stuff, it sucks).

Process Model
        * Uses multi-process, versus multi-threading which makes better
          use of multiple processors (because of the global interpreter
          lock in Python), and is safer in that if one process crashes, 
          it won't kill the entire server.

No magic (zodb <wink>).


Very best wishes to all,

-Drew

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug  3 17:42:12 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:42:12 -0500
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
In-Reply-To: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net>
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <15211.6836.957178.712686@beluga.mojam.com>

    Mikhael> Class MyObject:
    Mikhael>     Constructor1(self, number):
    Mikhael>         pass
    Mikhael>     Constructor2(self, string):
    Mikhael>         pass

You can only have one constructor.  Since you can't declare Python object
types, you have to check them at runtime.  One way you might find useful is
to force your users to use keyword args:

    class MyObject:
        def __init__(self, **kwds):
            if kwds.has_key("number"):
                self.number_init(kwds["number"])
            elif kwds.has_key("string"):
                self.string_init(kwds["number"])

There are other ways to break the problem up as well, including providing
various defaults:

    class MyObject:
        def __init__(self, number=None, string=None):
            ...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug 16 12:03:21 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:03:21 GMT
Subject: newbie question: using Python to coordinate C++ program and use gnuplot
References: <3B771A9C.3BB8317@princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <d9Se7.108593$EP6.28436859@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

CC'ed
"Eduardo Zea" <gezea at princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:3B771A9C.3BB8317 at princeton.edu...

> 1) I have a C++ program that reads a file with parameters (say
> parameters.txt) and runs a simulation, then produces an output file
(say
> output.txt). I want to write a Python program that loops over the
> parameter values and on each loop does this:
>
> 1. Updates parameters.txt
> 2. Runs the C++ program with the updated file
> 3. Renames the output of the C++ program according to the simulation
> number, e.g. output1.txt
> 2) A python program that opens gnuplot in a new terminal, and sends
to
> it a comand like "plot output.txt". And re-issues this command each
time
> it updates output.txt, so that gnuplot displays the data as it is
being
> produced by the program.

I believe something like the following may work.

import os
n=0
plot=os.popen('gnuplot', 'w') #there is optional third param bufsize
for param1 in param1list:
    for param2 in param2 list:
       ...
           open("parameters.txt",
"w").write(format%(param1,param2,...)).close()
           os.system("C++ program parameters.txt")
           plot.write("plot output.txt") # before rename
           os.rename('output.txt', 'output%d.txt'%n)
           n += 1

Or, if params are not crossed so neatly,

for p1,p2,...pk in ((v11,v12,...v1k), ...(vn1,vn2,...vnk)): # with ...
expanded to actual list

> Eduardo Zea
> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
> Princeton University

Terry J. Reedy
ps. since my long-ago PhD was in ecology, I would not mind an email
note on what your simulation does.





From wware at world.std.com  Thu Aug 23 18:04:38 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:04:38 GMT
Subject: Python enums revisited
References: <GII4wC.D5z@world.std.com> <GIIy46.vK@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <GIJJzq.Jx1@world.std.com>

Third time's a charm, one hopes.
=======================================================================
"""I once tried to give Python something like C's enums, as described
here: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=G6qzLy.6Fo%40world.std.com
That approach had the flaw of trying to assign to a dictionary
returned by the locals() function, intending that such assignments
would become class attributes, but that isn't guaranteed to work as
versions of Python change."""

import types, string, pprint, exceptions

class EnumException(exceptions.Exception):
    pass

class Enumeration:
    def __init__(self, name, enumList):
        self.__doc__ = name
        lookup = { }
        reverseLookup = { }
        i = 0
        uniqueNames = [ ]
        uniqueValues = [ ]
        for x in enumList:
            if type(x) == types.TupleType:
                x, i = x
            if type(x) != types.StringType:
                raise EnumException, "enum name is not a string: " + x
            if type(i) != types.IntType:
                raise EnumException, "enum value is not an integer: " + i
            if x in uniqueNames:
                raise EnumException, "enum name is not unique: " + x
            if i in uniqueValues:
                raise EnumException, "enum value is not unique for " + x
            uniqueNames.append(x)
            uniqueValues.append(i)
            lookup[x] = i
            reverseLookup[i] = x
            i = i + 1
        self.lookup = lookup
        self.reverseLookup = reverseLookup
    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        if not self.lookup.has_key(attr):
            raise AttributeError
        return self.lookup[attr]
    def whatis(self, value):
        return self.reverseLookup[value]

Volkswagen = Enumeration("Volkswagen",
    ["JETTA",
     "RABBIT",
     "BEETLE",
     ("THING", 400),
     "PASSAT",
     "GOLF",
     ("CABRIO", 700),
     "EURO_VAN",
     "CLASSIC_BEETLE",
     "CLASSIC_VAN"
     ])

Insect = Enumeration("Insect",
    ["ANT",
     "APHID",
     "BEE",
     "BEETLE",
     "BUTTERFLY",
     "MOTH",
     "HOUSEFLY",
     "WASP",
     "CICADA",
     "GRASSHOPPER",
     "COCKROACH",
     "DRAGONFLY"
     ])

def demo(lines):
    previousLineEmpty = 0
    for x in string.split(lines, "\n"):
        if x:
            if x[0] != '#':
                print ">>>", x; exec x; print
                previousLineEmpty = 1
            else:
                print x
                previousLineEmpty = 0
        elif not previousLineEmpty:
            print x
            previousLineEmpty = 1

def whatkind(value, enum):
    return enum.__doc__ + "." + enum.whatis(value)

class ThingWithType:
    def __init__(self, type):
        self.type = type

demo("""
car = ThingWithType(Volkswagen.BEETLE)
print whatkind(car.type, Volkswagen)
bug = ThingWithType(Insect.BEETLE)
print whatkind(bug.type, Insect)

# Notice that car's and bug's attributes don't include any of the
# enum machinery, because that machinery is all CLASS attributes and
# not INSTANCE attributes. So you can generate thousands of cars and
# bugs with reckless abandon, never worrying that time or memory will
# be wasted on redundant copies of the enum stuff.

print car.__dict__
print bug.__dict__
pprint.pprint(Volkswagen.__dict__)
pprint.pprint(Insect.__dict__)
""")

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From dwig at advancedmp.net  Wed Aug 15 12:53:23 2001
From: dwig at advancedmp.net (Don Dwiggins)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:53:23 -0700
Subject: Need Help with COM
In-Reply-To: "Michael A. Howard"'s message of "Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:46:23 -0700"
References: <9lc9t0$fo4$1@news.apple.com>
Message-ID: <ug0atl0xo.fsf@advancedmp.net>

> From: "Michael A. Howard" <mhoward at mahoward.com>

> I'm coming to Python from VB and trying to understand how the COM stuff
> works.

> I have a COM server (not written by me) that supports in VB the call
> oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
> Which returns the caption of this item as I can see it from the object
> browser in VB

> The same call in python returns:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'Caption'

In cases like this, I find it useful to use the interactive window of
Pythonwin.  Do something like the following (top of the head; YMMV):

>>> from win32com.client import *
>>> oAppPC = Dispatch('{whatever}.AppPC')
>>> ai = oAppPC.AppItem
>>> ai

>>> props = ai.Properties
>>> props

>>> i1 = props.Item(1)
>>> i1
  {At this point, you'll probably see a tuple.  The first element is what
   you get using VB; following are the value(s) of any in/out argument(s)}
>>> c = i1[0].Caption
>>> c
  {this should be the caption you want -- if it's a string, it'll be in
    Unicode, indicated by the "u" at the beginning.}

At each stage, you display the variable you've just set, to see that it
looks reasonable.

It's worth noting that COM strings are always in Unicode; VB hides this from
you, but Python doesn't (although it will let you pass in a non-Unicode
string as an argument and it'll do the right thing).

Good luck,

-- 
Don Dwiggins                    "Solvitur Ambulando"
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net




From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 12:35:19 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:35:19 +0200
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
References: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2086662.Z34EBddDVK@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Daphna Shezaf <shezafd at yahoo.com> schrub:

> I am a python enthusiast and have been programming around in python
> for sometime. I came up with the idea to use python for internal
> scripts we need in my company (for example: build scripts).
> That's nice (I think), but it will be hard to convince people that
> python interpreter should be installed on every machine around.
> Do you think it will be possible to install the interpreter on a
> single server, so that people will actually run their scripts on this
> server? Is it possible (and how), for the script to run a program on a
> different machine (We're using windows 2000 LAN)? Any other helpful
> hints?

If - for any reason - you have X11-Servers, VNC or something similar 
already installed, you could use an Linux/Unix/BSDish (maybe even 
CygWin) Python application server this way.

If you have java on the clients, maybe Jython (aka JPython) is a 
solution, then you only have to distribute the .class / .jar - files.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From des.small at bristol.ac.uk  Fri Aug 31 06:03:15 2001
From: des.small at bristol.ac.uk (Des Small)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:03:15 GMT
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
References: <9mnd72$i8$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <m6r8tsfpo6.fsf@maelstrom.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> writes:

> class now:
>     ....
>     ....
>     ....
> n=now()
> s='n'

Is this really backquotes, i.e., `n`?  If so it's syntactic sugar for 

s = repr(n)

which assigns to s the printable representation (a string) of n.  If
you're working at the command line then just

>>> n

will show this string, too.  If you want to customize the printed
representation of the object, you can define a method '__repr__' for
your class like this:

<transcript>
>>> class Foo:
...     def __repr__(self): return 'I\'m a foo!'
... 
>>> f = Foo()
>>> f
I'm a foo!
</transcript>


> print s
> 
> the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>
> 
> what means?????
> 

Des,
likes talking to the command line.
-- 
Dr Des Small, Scientific Programmer,
School of Mathematics, University of Bristol,
Tel: 0117 9287984


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 14:02:31 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:02:31 -0700
Subject: Variables from variables
References: <2gppnt4vfvt570kivgsgc99e5fca7ckm3b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D5C37.DE447BDA@ccvcorp.com>


paul at nlhas.no wrote:

> I've come to a dead end with this one, and would be grateful for
> suggestions. Scenario - a tuple with field names (self.description) to
> be mapped to class variables and assigned values from self.record.
>
> I've got this far, and get the partially successful result shown
> below. I can't fathom the reasons for the exceptions.
>
> Is there an easier way to do this?
>

Yes.

>>> fields ={ 'one':1, 'two':2, 'three':3 }

>>> class Record:
...     def __init__(self, fielddict):
...         for name, val in fielddict:
...             setattr(self, name, val)
...
>>> r = Record(fields)

>>> print r.one, r.two, r.three
1 2 3

(Note: this is simulated, not tested, but I'm fairly confident I've got it
right.  The key is the setattr() call.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug  7 05:22:19 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:22:19 +0200
Subject: Compiling Python2.2a1 & losing command-line features
References: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <b0cok9.gi3.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:43:25 -0400, Paul Johnston wrote:
>I have used binary and source-compiled versions of Python.  In every case 
>where I use the latter my Python environment loses all its normal niceties 
>like backspace, line-repeat, etc.  Is there a setting or configuration item 
>I need to set to get these back?

This features come from the readline library. If you have are using Linux, be
sure to have the readline package as well as the readline-devel package
installed. Python configuration should then automatically find readline and
build against it, so that you have a decent interactive interpreter again.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug 13 13:49:34 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:49:34 -0500
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 13)
Message-ID: <D79D7F6A25FE732B.E7268F36B8FE88B5.0399693C994CBBE8@lp.airnews.net>

Quote of the week:
              1) Customers cause problems.
	      2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
	      Therefore:
	      3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)                

Language use
    A find-the-permutations question turns into another c.l.py
    optimization war:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=18e6d8363f51b0bc,31

    An apparent argument between Alex Martelli and Grant Edwards
    on callbacks leads to productive descriptions of the uses of
    lambda and currying
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=80b65a6b5646b8fa

    Python lets you use '' or "" for strings.  Some people take
    advantage of this by using different quotes in different
    situations:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f896d358e3f6db17,12

    Thomas Bellman provides an excellent explanation of the 
    difference between tuples and lists.
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=734a85d08d175637

    If the __main__ module is 'a.py', 'import __main__, a' will
    execute the same module twice, which is unusual since python
    generally avoids doing that.  Is this a wart?  And how is it
    related to circular imports?
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=2a5a0ff6b04b0ecd,14

Useful language
    David Smith wants to copy an instance without invoking __init__
    on the new instance.  Alex Martelli shows how you can do that by
    creating a dummy class, instantiating it, and reassigning its
    __class__ attribute:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=8d22a064dd4568b8,30&start=2
    ... but Guido notes that this idiom will no longer be possible in
    future versions, due to type/class unification:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=8d22a064dd4568b8,30&start=9

    Later, Guido reveals that he would like to make python less dynamic
    (only dropping "less useful" dynamic features, of course) to make it
    more amenable to compiler optimization:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?start=10&th=8d22a064dd4568b8,30&rnum=18&selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com

    I?igo Serna releases lfm 0.5, a midnight commander clone in Python:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=594eab21f71df4c8,1

    M.-A. Lemburg's latest mx extension is mxTidy, which "helps you to
    cleanup coding errors in HTML and XML":
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b336d90307e1da99,1

    ReportLab is a python module to create PDFs:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b2560cae682b1c1f,8&start=7

Language evolution
    Guido envisions someday unifying python's numeric model, or at least
    moving to something more mathematically-oriented instead of
    machine-oriented.  Of course, there are many ways to express the
    relationship between numeric types, and the mathematically minded
    happily debate all of them:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=6d6ad23e6ecaa33f,14


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continues Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
        http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

    Python Journal is at work on its second issue
        http://www.pythonjournal.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Mon Aug 13 10:32:40 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:32:40 +0100
Subject: Python equivalent of Archive::Tar?
Message-ID: <g5pfntkvaouredpt6bim6uoogncgvlt984@4ax.com>

Is there a python equivalent of this perl module?  I specifically want
to be able to create a tar file in memory by reading in the files for
it and then write it out to a web browser.  I've managed to acheive
this in perl by using Archive::Tar, has anyone written a similar
library for python?  I had a quick search but "tar" always turns up a
huge amount of unwanted results. :)

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Mon Aug 13 11:39:06 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:39:06 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl>
Message-ID: <9l8saq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>

According to Roeland Rengelink  <r.b.rigilink at chello.nl>:
>         if self.state:
>             self.state = 0
>         else:
>             self.state = 1

    self.state = 1 - self.state

;-)



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From howard at eegsoftware.com  Mon Aug 20 12:16:16 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:16:16 GMT
Subject: Tkinter event loops
Message-ID: <3B8137CF.82515CD6@eegsoftware.com>

How do I provide the same event handling as the mainloop method while
still allowing me to "poll" other activities?

Do I use the update method or update_idletasks method or ???

Thanks



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Aug 31 16:32:28 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:32:28 -0400
Subject: Is 0 > None?? (fwd)
Message-ID: <cR/j7kKkXAbA092yn@bellatlantic.net>                

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
|This used to make a lot of sense, but now it all breaks down
|if any item in the heterogeneous list is a complex number, so
|I doubt it makes much sense any more -- you *can't* "put a
|heterogenous list in canonical form" by sorting it unless you're
|ABSOLUTELY sure that, whatever else the list may contain, it
|*DOESN'T* contain even one complex number.
|I think we could count this among Python's relatively-new
|warts, actually:-).

Don't forget about Unicode strings, which have the same problem.

As warts go, I find this one worse than anything else in Python (except
maybe 'print >>').

There is no good reason that Python 2.2 or 2.3 couldn't fix this wart.
But it's not clear whether the BDFL will, in fact, let it be fixed.

Yours, Lulu...





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 07:35:34 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 04:35:34 -0700
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...)
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3d6jqa9l.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer) writes:
> I'd strongly prefer a IOError exception hierarchy with one exception
> class for each different errno value to the current situation. You
> could still catch IOError, but you could also just catch the odd
> DeviceFull or PermissionDenied exception and leave all others to your
> caller. 

This makes sense to me.


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug  6 23:04:43 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:04:43 GMT
Subject: Downloadable 2.1.1 documentation?
References: <vyFb7.59124$oh1.22487457@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <cpg0b44lmh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson at home.com> writes:

> At http://www.python.org/doc/2.1.1/download.html, all I see in
> zip, gzip & bzip2 format is the v2.1 documentation.  Will the
> 2.1.1 on-line documentation be archived any time soon?

Please report incidents like this to webmaster -- it's much more
likely to be noticed by the right people.  This turned out a matter of
an incompletely edited piece of HTML.  Try again -- the links should
be correct now!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From cgp at nospam.le.ac.uk  Wed Aug 15 05:28:45 2001
From: cgp at nospam.le.ac.uk (Clive Page)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:28:45 +0100
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <9larpb$6knlu@owl.le.ac.uk> <3B79632D.A06275A1@home.net>
Message-ID: <9ldfcd$6m8d7@owl.le.ac.uk>

In article <3B79632D.A06275A1 at home.net>,
Chris Barker  <chrishbarker at home.net> wrote:

>wxPython is under far more active development: new versions come out
>faster that new versions of Python. Personally, I think it is stable
>enought to be part of the standard library now, but it wasn't a couple
>of years ago.

Yes, on Windows, it seems to work as advertised, and it's very good.

>
>There are a couple of missing elements still: a good interactive Canvas
>being the most obvious, I'm sure there are others. 

Some build instructions that an average idiot like me can follow.  I've
even tried the RPMs on Linux, but they don't work either.  This may be a
result of the active development, but some pointer to a stable version
which works seems essential.

(to be fair, wx has a
>number of nice high level widgets that TK doesn't, most notably the
>wxGrid)

Agree, this is really useful, and works fine.


-- 
Clive Page   cgp at le.ac.uk


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug  4 11:44:13 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:44:13 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [OT] Re: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
In-Reply-To: <E15T338-0001lh-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108041943080.12092-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 zooko at zooko.com wrote:

>In order to get the race conditions out of Mojo Nation, I'm writing a
>`non_decreasing_time()', which does what we thought `time()' would do. In fact,
>I might just make it `increasing_time()'.  In any case, the `time.time()' in
>the standard library should either be fixed to be non-decreasing (my
>preference), or the documentation should be updated to warn about the
>surprise.

P.S. Maybe you've just invented quantum time-machine! Congrats!

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 04, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Experience: a name everyone gives to his mistakes." _/




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  9 20:03:37 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:03:37 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <yvFc7.16$0c.3582@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kuqsq02ts0 at enews4.newsguy.com...
> "David Smith" <drs at labs.agilent.com> wrote in message
> news:3B72DCBA.C99465BC at labs.agilent.com...
>     ...
> > class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
> > bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
>     ...
> > Is there a way for __copy__ to create a bare object of the same class,
> > which it can proceed to populate?
>
> Piece of cake:
>
> class Fleep:
>     def __init__(self, x, y, z):
>         print 'lots',x,'of',y,'work',z
>     def __copy__(self):
>         class Temp: pass
>         newbie = Temp()
>         newbie.__class__=self.__class__
>         print "very little work"
>

Surely I'm missing something here, but if (as I surmise) __copy__() is a
factory, shouldn't it let someone have newbie before it gets garbage
collected?

very-little-work-should-maybe-instead-return-newbie-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From gmcm at hypernet.com  Thu Aug  2 18:47:01 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 22:47:01 GMT
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3B6369D4.671C1870@alcyone.com> <Xns90ED38309C442cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50> <3B63973B.490D4B08@engcorp.com> <Xns90ED5DA29D6E3gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154> <3B66AE57.79A2C217@cybermesa.com> <3B69A1C5.3ADB92DF@home.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90F1BF2713B6Cgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155>

Chris Barker wrote:

[delaying imports]


> another option is:
> 
> class MyEngine:
>     import engine_support

But that's not a delayed import. It happens
at the time the module is loaded.

- Gordon



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 04:03:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:03:46 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk> <8jjmmtkfpsga1jam9vsfjrs82iulkd05an@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kgnq912p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8jjmmtkfpsga1jam9vsfjrs82iulkd05an at 4ax.com...
>
> >I agree with you that the room for improvement is in extending the
> >libraries. The success of C in particular, and to a lesser extent of C++,
> >is testimony to the value of this approach.
>
> I'd say that Java's three biggest reasons for success are hype,
> marketing,

You write as if there was a distinction between these two...?-)

> and the kitchen sink. With the kitchen sink being the
> relevant part at the moment. :)

And note that Java's KS is *strictly* on the (huge) libraries -- the
language itself, far from KS'ing, still hasn't integrated CRUCIAL
improvements such as generics, despite their having been
demonstrated in experimental extensions (such as Pizza) lo
that many years back.

That's good for Jython, actually -- a Jython user would get no
benefits from an improvement to Java, the language (conceivably
there would be problems if the _JVM_ changed, not that this is
really conceivable at this point) -- but any Java library enrichment
automatically falls in Jython users' laps...:-).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 04:20:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:20:27 +0200
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ldbhr01jpr@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Barry A. Warsaw" <barry at zope.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997845263.23320.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
> "maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too

What about just 'email'?  Is there a requirement that a standard
library module name ends with 'lib'?


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 14:29:39 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:29:39 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997551144.17014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B757993.F6BB0492@engcorp.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> 
> Then it will be one quantum leap and:
> 
> <myproblem:recordset>
> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><e>0</e>
> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><e>0</e>
> </myproblem:recordset>
> 
> or something similar.

Of course, there's nothing that says every atomic
piece of data has to be put into a separate element
in XML.  Since the above is to be manipulated by 
code, the following would be in many cases just as
capable a format, and probably easier to manage:

<myproblem:recordset>
  <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
  <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
  <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
  <record>0 0 0 0</record>
  <record>0 0 0 0</record>
</myproblem:recordset>

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 05:32:08 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:32:08 +0200
Subject: How to call java from python?
References: <wM6c7.6221$qb.1465@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <9kr0uo01vvd@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Larry Han" <xy-han at home.com> wrote in message
news:wM6c7.6221$qb.1465 at news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
> Is there any way to use java method from python?
> Like calling C from python, it seems reasonable to
> drag java and python closer.

    www.jython.org


Alex





From bernhard at intevation.de  Fri Aug 10 06:17:17 2001
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:17:17 GMT
Subject: [announce] Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.6
References: <mailman.997240692.8944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l0cbc$6vi5g$2@ID-89274.news.dfncis.de>

In article <mailman.997240692.8944.python-list at python.org>,
	Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> writes:
>             Roundup 0.2.6 - an issue tracking system

> Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with 
> command-line, web and e-mail interfaces. 

Any accessable system running somewhere?

>       http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/
> 

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            	  (fsfeurope.org)


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Aug 27 12:32:21 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:32:21 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: encoding
In-Reply-To: <15846473395.20010827230414@mail.biysk.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108272028420.25297-100000@phd.fep.ru>

Hello!

   Welcome to the Russian-speaking Python and Zope User Group: zope.net.ru.
We have mailing list. Please subscribe: http://zope.net.ru/About/mail-list/

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Sergei N. Maslennikov wrote:
> How to convert a string from any national encoding to another? For
> example from cp866 to cp1251.

   print "??????".encode("cp1251")
   print unicode("??????").encode("cp1251")
   print unicode("??????", "koi8-r").encode("cp1251")
   print unicode("??????", "cp1251").encode("koi8-r")

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug  8 14:34:33 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:34:33 GMT
Subject: How to call java from python?
References: <wM6c7.6221$qb.1465@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <3B711CD6.D034C5EB@accessforall.nl>
Message-ID: <3b718485.335589932@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:05:05 +0100, Ype Kingma
<ykingma at accessforall.nl> wrote:

:
:
:Larry Han wrote:
:> 
:> Is there any way to use java method from python?
:> Like calling C from python, it seems reasonable to
:> drag java and python closer.
:
:Absolutely: www.jython.org
:In jython you can do eg.:
:
:  import java
:
:  jht = java.util.Hashtable()
:
:  jht.put(1,'Hello world')
:
:  print jht.get(1)

Or... you can treat your Hashtable instance like a Python dictionary:

>>> jht = java.util.Hashtable()
>>> jht[1] = 'Hello world'
>>> print jht[1]
'Hello world'
>>> print jht
 {1=Hello world}


Neat stuff.  You can also call back into Jython from Java by mkaing a
PythonInterpreter instance.

Jython makes fooling with Java stuff much easier, for me anyway.  Just
this morning a new issue of the JDC (Java Developer Connection)
newsletter landed in my inbox, and spent time talking about
"performing exact calculations with floating point numbers" (a topic
which gets bandied about in this group now and then after someone does
something like 56 * 0.1 and gets 5.600000000005).  The article talks
about using BigDecimal.  I decided to fool with the examples they
described, but did in interactively in Jython...  cool.

Mats



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 21 20:36:56 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:36:56 +1000
Subject: input of data from keyboard
In-Reply-To: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
References: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <01082210365608.02447@ike>

On Wednesday 22 August 2001 10:04, Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> Hi,
>   what function can I use to get input from the keyboard (or stdin)?

See the Python Library Reference, section 2.3, raw_input. A search of the 
index for "input" finds it (eventually :)


   Richard



From tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com  Tue Aug 21 10:51:48 2001
From: tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com (Tist Verdonck)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 07:51:48 -0700
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
Message-ID: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to loop through the keys of a dictionary (whitout using
a list containing all those keys)?

e.g. mydict = {'123':[1,9,13],'125':[6,8],'225':[5]}

where '123','125' and '225' are serial numbers
and 1,9,13
    6,8
    and 5 are positions of elements in a list with the same serial
number

I have to merge the elements with position 1,9 and 13 // 8 and 6 //
element 5 stays the same.

(I only need to know how to loop through the keys, the rest is a
little explanation)

thanks,
Tist Verdonck
tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 08:06:25 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:06:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: updating com server
References: <69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FC82E2E6F92duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

jaspervp at hotmail.com (jasper) wrote in 
news:69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206 at posting.google.com:

> I have made a simple comserver with python which returns a string,
> when called from word.
> I have changed the comserver to return an other string, but it still
> returns the old string. I have tried unregistering and registering
> again, but that doesn't help. the only thing that seems to help is
> rebooting.
> 
> is there an easier way to do this?

In your COM server class, set the attribute:
 _reg_clsctx_ = pythoncom.CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER
This will ensure that your COM object always runs in a separate process: 
the default otherwise would be to run in the same process as the client.

Register your COM server then edit the registry CLSID\<your 
classid>\LocalServer32 to make python.exe the application to be run instead 
of pythonw.exe. (Alternatively I think that setting pythoncom.frozen=1 in 
your source file before registering may have the same effect.)

This will ensure that when your COM object is loaded it always runs in a 
new visible window. Now you can put print statements into your COM server 
to see what is happening, and when you edit the source you just need to 
remember to close the window to get rid of the old copy (most 
client applications should then restart the COM server when required).


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 22:23:38 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:23:38 -0700
Subject: line continuations with backslash
Message-ID: <7xk7zslvx1.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Is there a particular reason in Python why you can't continue a line with
a backslash in the middle of a literal, like in C?

For what I'm doing it would be useful to be able to split a numeric
literal like this:

a = 123\
456\
789L

The actual numbers I want to use are a few hundred digits, so
splitting them across several lines would be nice.

Is there another way to do this?  I guess I could enter

a = long("123"+
  "456"+
  "789")

but that does an extra runtime conversation instead of just
compiling the literal into the .pyc file.


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Aug 16 15:40:26 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:40:26 -0500
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7C21AA.50405@wi.mit.edu>

Apologies is this is received more than once.

>Quoth Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu>:
>| I have a GUI to submit a background job and want the GUI to exit after
>| the job is submitted to leave the actually big job run for a few days to
>| compleletion. Could anyone give me a hint how to do this? right now the
>| GUI stays but blocked by the background job.
>| Thanks.
>
>os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, cmd, argv) might work for you.
>
>	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
>
Which GUI toolkit are you using? There are several ways to solve this
problem but eventually you will find that you want to have asynchronous
I/O between the worker and the GUI.

If you are writing the process yourself then it is fairly easy to
accomplish, attached is a small piece of Tkinter code that can launch a
threaded task and still run the GUI. It also can stop the thread from 
running
using a simple message passing model between the gui thread and the
worker thread.

The message passing interface between the parent and the child is a
thread safe Queue. When this Queue is not empty, the worker thread will
shut down. You could also have a second thread to pass UI update events
to the Gui. Generally, I find that explaining Queues to the people I
work with much easier than thread Events and Semaphores but your milage
may vary. Queues are not reliable if you need less latency between user
events and visible effects. Also debugging becomes much harder as soon
as you start multithreading an application. Michael Swaine once said
that "Multi-threading rots your teeth"

Also be aware that whenever you use python's thread package with a
purely python written program you will see slowdowns in the workers you
are running. We have seen up to 30% speed loss between a threaded
process and an unthreaded process. If speed is an issue you can set up
the worker to run in a seperate python process and use pipes/sockets for
update and control events. Python makes this fairly easy to do, although
whenever you touch pipes/sockets you are getting into the realm of
techno-weenie. Let me know if you need advice on this, we are trying to
release some code to facilitate linux and windows out of process
asynchrounous communication, but don't hold your breath.

As an aside, this same technique works equally well under PyQT/Gtk and
Tkinter. I remember doing something similar under WxPython but I
remember them having their own threading model.


Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute For Biomedical Research





-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: test_thread.py
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010816/f95f4989/attachment.ksh>

From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 12:26:29 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:26:29 +0200
Subject: MS Windows COM error - access denied
References: <3B8A5D9B.D4F80131@noaa.gov> <3b8a607b.7966140@news.t-online.de> <3B8A670E.C38F139C@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <9mdsbp02p9e@enews1.newsguy.com>

"jim.vickroy" <jim.vickroy at noaa.gov> wrote in message
news:3B8A670E.C38F139C at noaa.gov...
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> I tried dcomcnfg.exe, but that did not fix the "access denied" error;
> perhaps because I'm not using DCOM at this point.  For the present, all
> this is happening on a single machine.

Unfortunately, between-process communication is still "DCOM"
even if the "D" stays virtual -- you still have these issues.


> As for security settings and access permissions, that sounds promising.
> I poked around a little in the Component Services interface under
> Administrative Tools, but I really do not know what I'm doing or even if
> this is the right place.  Any suggestions on how I can come up to speed
> on these types of issues?

Since it's a service, use control panel/services; there, you can
set the way the service is supposed to run.  Try having it
impersonate a highly-trusted user, such as an administrator: if
it works this way, then you know this is your issue.  Then try
to find out more precisely where things are breaking (use the
OutputDebugString call or other ways to get a log to tell you
exactly where your service is having problems) and either make
a suitable pseudo-user for that service, with just the right
permissions, or relax whatever protection is needed to that the
default way the service is run can do what it needs to.

Yeah, it *IS* a bother:-(.


Alex





From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 24 10:22:54 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:22:54 -0500
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
References: <3B86028A.9F5F9967@sgh.com.sg>
Message-ID: <tocot8ij3pba95@corp.supernews.com>

If there is a record separator then you can safely treat it as a database.
if you are on Windows, create an ODBC datasource and use the ODBC library
that comes with PythonWin.  If you are not using Pythonwin, use something
like mxODBC to access records using the ODBC datasource.  Basically, you
have what resembles a CSV file.  If you are on Unix, use an ODBC datasource
bridge.  Check the mxODBC site for more information.
Now, if you do not want to deal with datasources at all - what I can think
of (I have not tried this since  I use ODBC datasources on windows) is to
open the file, then look for what separates the different values/columns
WITHIN one record, then add these values into a list:
The list itself is a collection of lists indexed by the number of the
record.  Each new index is created when the record separator is encountered.
For each index, a list is created to keep track of the values inside each
record.
I think you see the point now.
Of course, there maybe some other way of which I am not aware of since I
only use ODBC.  But I can see a list of lists (a list of records - each
record is created when the record separator is encountered - and each record
is a list of values as different values are encountered within each record).
Maan

"YMK" <gbeymk at sgh.com.sg> wrote in message
news:3B86028A.9F5F9967 at sgh.com.sg...
> If I know the "Record Separator" of a flat file, how do I set to read
> one record at a time ?




From vdkamp at inter.nl.net  Sun Aug 19 05:49:32 2001
From: vdkamp at inter.nl.net (Peter van der Kamp)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 09:49:32 GMT
Subject: zlib problems with Python 2.0
Message-ID: <LGBX1rs21rjs-pn2-gplXEtVO9vBF@1Cust178.tnt53.rtm1.nl.uu.net>

Hello,

Working with the zlib module under Python 2.0, OS/2 Warp 4,
I encounter the following error: unknown compression method.
Documentation, Internet, trial and error didn't solve the problem.
My script does the following.
Read chunks of text from a text file (I have good reasons not to 
compress
the complete file, so I won't explain that here). Split the chunk into
separate words. For every word register the number of the chunk.
Compress the chunk and write the compressed chunk to a file. For
every compressed chunk register its length and start position
within the file. So far no problem.
When I retrieve compressed chunks from the file, only the first
two are decompressed without problems. The remaining chunks return
the 'unknown compression method' error.

The relevant statements involved with compressing are (mixed up
with some pseudo-code):

import zlib

z = open("d:\\z.dat", "w")
for every chunk of text:
	zPar = zlib.compress(par, 9)
	print "Compressed: ", repr(zPar)
	z.write(zPar)
z.close()

The relevant statements involved with decompressing are (mixed up
with some pseudo-code):

z = open("d:\\z.dat", "r")
for every chunk of compressed text:
	z.seek(begin,0) #begin = the start position of the chunk within file
	zPar = z.read(lengte)  #lengte = length of compressed chunk
	uzPar = zlib.decompress(zPar)
	print uzPar
z.close()

Anyone any idea what goes wrong?

Thanks,

Peter van der Kamp



From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Wed Aug  1 07:15:34 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 04:15:34 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com>

Go to:

  http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/Templates/

and one will find a growing list of packages designed to provide a means
of generating HTML pages using Python in one way or another. These range
from % on steroids (ie. Cheetah), up to ASP or JSP workalikes (ie. PSP).
Although not specifically Python, you also have the traditional server
side includes feature of Apache, that might easily be beefed up somewhat
to make it more useable within the confines of an appropriate HTTP servlet
framework implemented using Python.

With the more complicated of these, eg., PSP or Zope, I think I can safely
say they got to where they are through gradual evolvement. With such an
approach, what can happen though is that one can introduce a way of doing
things which may turn out not to be the best way. The result of this is
that in time another way is introduced of doing the same thing but perhaps
a bit better. Because someone might be using the initial feature though, it
gets left in there, resulting in a not so clean and consistant implementation
or set of features. In other words, it develops warts.

What I am wanting to know is what we have learnt from all of this. If
one were designing yet another template system, what might be the best way
of approaching it? The idea being for it to be simple in appearance and
use, yet be powerful enough to harness features within the back end server.

Given the popularity of ASP and JSP, starting with the concept of PSP as
one mechanism is appealing. In looking at PSP however, I see the different
ways which exist of handling the indentation problem as being confusing. I
would prefer to see just one way of doing it. There are also possibly other
things that might sensibly be dropped from a new implementation of PSP.

As well as PSP, you also have other approaches such as Zope, which on
first inspection may be quite daunting to many users. Zope also perhaps
pushes the functionality more into the server than the web pages as with
PSP, which might mean more work before one can get something going.

Is there are middle ground? Based on experiences from using these systems,
are we at a point where we can say that something better now might be
developed, or do people think this is the best we can do?

BTW, when I say PSP here, I am refering to the WebWare implementation.
As to why I am asking these questions, well, I have a HTTP servlet and
distributed application framework with publish/subscribe and request/reply
functionality. The issue now is how to make it all easily accessible so
that building web services can be made simple.

Any comments, ideas or suggestions are most welcome.


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 30 12:04:53 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:04:53 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
Message-ID: <9mlnsh$2emk$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

I'm trying to convince my boss to start a new project (Web service + Web
"heavy" dedicated client) with Python when he prefers PHP.
He's arguing that it's easier to find PHP programmers than Python
programmers in France (he's right)
I'm arguing that any good PHP or Java programmer can be a good Python
programmer in one week (I'm right).
Unfortunately, learning Zope is some more difficult than Apache/mod_php
(he's right, I started Zope 6 months ago an I'm still dead brained on some
problems)
Can you give me some arguments to make the decision ?

Many thanks in advance

--Gillou





From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Mon Aug 20 10:44:55 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:44:55 GMT
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9103AA2B1F909rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Stephen wrote:

> I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and the 
> numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages with
> attachments.  I've found various solutions, some of which no longer
> seem to work, and was quite surprised how this seemingly banal task
> has caused so much trouble. However, in Microsoft Outlook, it's
> possible to embed image files into the actual message as opposed to
> having them attached.  This way, they display when the recipient
> views the message.  Just how does one compose a message like that
> with Python may I ask?

With some difficulty, and I know because I've tried. 


Basic structure of a HTML message:

[standard mailheaders]
[mime section 1: multipart/related]

Text for none-MIME aware mail readers.
(This precedes the first mime part.)

[mime section 1 part 1]
   [mime section 2: multipart/alternative]
   [mime section 2 part 1: text/plain]
       Text version of message
   [mime section 2 part 2: text/html]
       HTML version of message
   [end mime section 2]

[mime section 1 part 2]
   First encoded file (an image or whatever)

[mime section 1 part 3]
    Second embedded file

etc.

(If there are no embedded files, the outer multipart/related mime 
'wrapper' can be omitted.)


Is that it? Unfortunately not, the tricky part is that a content-ID 
(basically just a GUID) must be generated for each embedded file, and 
that all references to those files *within* the HTML-part must be 
replaced by the content-ID.

What I ended up doing is using the SGML-parser module to scan the HTML-
source for files (as yet only in <IMG ...> tags) and then generate a 
content-ID for each of those.

If there are files which need to be embedded, the HTML is scanned again 
[*], and the file references (in <IMG ...> tags) are replaced by the 
content ID. As the HTML as been 'disassembled' at this point, it is a 
good opportunity to reassemble it without the flotsam and jetsam of 
comments and spurious whitespace. (So what if that makes garbage of 
your <PRE> tags? I'll fix it ... someday.)


> Also if I read between the lines of some posts in the archive, is
> it safe to assume that mimelib is the way to go for future MIME
> manipulation? If so, would it be asking too much for a simple
> example snippet showing how it is used becaues I can't work out
> where to start with it.

Simple... ha! What I have are two sourcefiles, totalling a little over 
10Kb. In Python terms, that's quite a bit of code. And, although it 
works, the code is still unfinished in many ways, so by the time it 
does everything what I expect it to do, it'll probably be a few Kb 
larger.


> In fact I'm off to download Mailman in order to read the source and
> see how it uses mimelib.  This is overkill on a par with taking
> apart your Range Rover in order to learn how carburetors work.  

Hmmm, Range Rovers, don't those have diesel engines? And don't most 
diesel engines use direct injection? I think you're on a wild goose 
chase here, mate. ;-)


Robert Amesz
-- 
[*] I know, I know: I should do only a single scan, combining the two 
functions. I'll get around to it - eventually.


From albert.brandl at chello.at  Sat Aug  4 05:40:42 2001
From: albert.brandl at chello.at (Albert Brandl)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 09:40:42 GMT
Subject: Q: Code Review Checklist?
References: <mailman.996854107.1923.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uqPa7.23508$U27.696515@news.chello.at>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> O! Just put motivating subject and you will have a long-long checklist. If
> you just cite some items here from the original - you will get more in
> return ;-)

Have a look at http://cs.wwc.edu/~aabyan/435/PSP/CodeReviewGuide.html.
There you find the checklist used in Humphrey's book "A Discipline for
Software Engineering".

Some items are irrelevant - in Python, you don't need to check whether
pointers are initialized NULL, only deleted after new and always deleted 
after use if new.

OTOH, the checklist requires you to e.g. test your logic operators:
- Verify the proper user of ==, =, || etc
- check every logic function for proper ()
This would have caught your "<" vs ">" error.

> Personally, I think that Python programmers do their checks while they
> write code, because in Python you do not write that many LOC. 

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you suggest that Python is only
used for tasks so simple that it's impossible to get it wrong? Or
does "not that many LOC" mean that you split up your code in
many little methods that can easily be verified?

> There is
> Python Style Guide which will teach you how to write Pythonic Python
> programs. Python idioms also help to keep programs readable. Applying
> PyChecker could find some problems...

In the PSP, there is a item called Standards: "Ensure that the code 
conforms to the coding standards". You are right: The Python Style
Guide is a good starting point to define the standards.

As for PyChecker: I've been using this tool for some time and like it very 
much. Unfortunately, automated tools can only detect certain classes of 
errors.

A general checklist should contain all kinds of error that are specific to 
Python and hard to find. It takes e.g. much time to realize that two 
variables reference the same object. It would be interesting to know
if such a list is already "out there", but the response has not yet been
overwhelming...

> So, I can't think of any checklist to review my own code... 

Building a personal checklist is relatively easy: The next time you sit 
down and start the interpreter, note every error you stumble across. 
You'll soon see some patterns emerge, .e.g. spelling errors, infinite
loops, off-by-one-errors, no "self" variable in the head of a function,
logic errors, etc. - at least that's what I've experienced. Extract these 
patterns into a checklist and correct all problems you find _before_
you start the interpreter.

        Best regards,

                Albert


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 13:02:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:02:51 +0200
Subject: Setting file creation date
References: <mailman.997454355.12463.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l147s0tk3@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997454355.12463.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> >"Fredrik Seehusen" <fse at npt.no> wrote in message
> >news:e77b4645.0108100226.4cfaf671 at posting.google.com...
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
> >> creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?
> >>
> >> This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(
> >
> >os.utime lets you set the accessed and modified dates, but I
> >don't think NT lets you change creation-date -- you'd have to
> >change your computer's date, create a new file copying the
> >old one, etc, etc, I suspect.
>
> Sorry for my total ignorance of NT, but AFAIK UNIX/Linux do not
> have file creation date stored:

True; the 'c' stands for 'change' (to status), not for 'creation',
on unix-like filesystems.

> Also I remember, Macintosh had file creation time stored,
> but Windows 9x store only two times (probably mtime and ctime).

Wrong.  API GetFileTime correctly returns all three times
(creation, last access, last write) on both NT and 9x and on
both NTFS and FAT filesystems (the issue with the latter
is the resolution of 2 seconds:-).

Which reminds me, SetFileTime lets you change those, and
I don't know why win32file (part of the win32api) still does
not make that call available according to the latest manual
at URL [a single line, some sw will break it]:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Reference/Products/ActivePython/Pyth
onWin32Extensions/win32file.html

Should be a C extension of a few lines, worst case.  Much
simpler/faster than the rigmarole of change-date/copy-file/&c
which I previously suggested.  Maybe calldll.pyd can help.

> atime and mtime are quite easy to change, and the nature
> of ctime is more subtle.
>
> So, I wonder where creation date is used and how it survives
> archiving...

On NT?  It survives perfectly and it's quite useful, because the
*modification* time may happen to be bogus while the creation
time is often more reliable.


Alex





From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 01:18:32 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:18:32 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <iiiootolefoi0bseo1kk8g4lsgo6vrr2u7@4ax.com> <mailman.999059623.9527.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9fuoot4rffi6vf6b6pf0h9o6hbrnv5v25k@4ax.com>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:32:00 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.999059623.9527.python-list at python.org>:

:On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:
:
:> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
:> <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
:> <mailman.999043423.30546.python-list at python.org>:
:>
:>  [snip]
:>
:> :Also, you should make it so that the file is immediately opened in __init__(),
:>
:> Why? I don't see any persuasive reason for that. The methods that I'm
:> using under windows don't allow for me to separate the action of opening
:> the file and obtaining the lock (there is a single command which does
:> both), and I wanted to keep the functions between the windows and the
:> posix versions as close to parallel as possible. In any case, I can't
:> see any compelling reason for the file opening to occur in the init
:> function.
:
:I just finished talking with a friend who's done more recent Win32 development
:than me, and he claims that you can reopen the file (without closing it) using
:the aforementioned API function again in order to apply a lock. It sounds
:fishy to me too, but it might be worth a shot.

I'm sorry. You lost me here.
The windows function I'm using (which was mentioned elsewhere) is
CreateFile. Whether or not I can reopen the file without having closed
it is immaterial to my module, since my unlock function closes the file
and deletes the file handle.

What am I supposed to "give a shot" to???

So far, my windows code is all performing as I expect (not that I've
shared it here...). That may be partly why I'm confused by this segue
into discussing the Windows implementation.


--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From dgrisby at uk.research.att.com  Tue Aug 21 05:39:02 2001
From: dgrisby at uk.research.att.com (Duncan Grisby)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:39:02 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1.1 on old Debian box with Linux kernel 2.0.39
References: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com> <9lr4qe$d94$1@pea.uk.research.att.com> <3B812C05.530D2289@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <9lta7m$gk0$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>

In article <3B812C05.530D2289 at stroeder.com>,
 Michael Str?der  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:

>> I had the same problem on an ancient RedHat 5 machine, where the
>> problem was due to glibc 2.0 missing out some things that are in glibc
>> 2.1. The problems are all fixed in the CVS version of Python. (Unless
>> they've broken again since my patch was added.)
>
>Can you point me to your patch?

With any luck, this link will work:

  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=449157

If that doesn't work, go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/,
click on Bugs, then search for bug number 449157. The patch is
attached as netpacket.diff.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby  \  Research Engineer  --
  -- AT&T Laboratories Cambridge          --
   -- http://www.uk.research.att.com/~dpg1 --


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 09:30:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:30:16 +0200
Subject: sleep command/function & searching the python docs
References: <9k6ilm$2sed8$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>        <m3bsm1hyje.fsf@kepler.ibp.de>        <9k6mev$2vg4b$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.996601079.13064.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k909g0ikn@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.996601079.13064.python-list at python.org...
>
>     >>> ... is there any way to search the Python docs for a specific
>     >>> function/module etc? Or is there any resource on the web that
>     >>> provides a searchable interface?
>
>     Rajarshi> Another post in this thread mentioned http://web.pydoc.org -
>     Rajarshi> looks pretty useful
>
> I tried finding getopt there by searching for "argument", "parsing" or
> "option".  It was tough to find getopt in the results it returned.

Searching for
    argument and parsing and option
in the .CHM form of Python's docs returns 6.18 getopt as the
second of 35 hits (sorted by decreasing relevance).

> Alas, Google, my favorite search engine, doesn't allow you to restrict
> results to specific sections of a site.  On Alta Vista (and probably a
> number of other search engines as well) you can search for something like
>
>     options url:www.python.org/doc/current/lib
>
> to restrict searches for "options" to the current library reference
manual.

True, but searching for
    argument parsing options site:python.org
with Google is still rather helpful, with
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2001-February/003515.html
as hit number 5 (that post, in turn, has helpful pointers).

It WOULD be very nice and Google-friendly if Python's current
docs in particular could be accessed as URL docs.python.org...!!!


Alex





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Aug 18 00:29:06 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 04:29:06 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <mailman.998072977.19755.python-list@python.org> <m8uqnt0m0qvmgrbs4od5v6o4hnrvi1mjgf@4ax.com> <3B7D9C4D.48C07D2C@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <mamf7.38457$c8.13185345@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B7D9C4D.48C07D2C at ccvcorp.com...
> New-div semantics are necessary for numeric integration.

Wrong.  I already presented an alternate numerical model which preserves old
integer division semantics while not treating integers any differently than
non-integer numbers ("decimals" in my system).  When I asked which division
operator I should use if I was to implement my alternate numerical model, I
received no answer.

> Numeric integration is a good thing.
> Old-div semantics prevent numeric integration.  Ergo, div semantics must
be
> changed.  This also means that it is *not* practical for new semantics to
use
> any spelling other than / because that *will* be the normally used
version.

Maybe it's just me, but I see no use whatsoever for the new division
operator.  When I calculate '5 / 2' (however it's spelled), any result other
than '2' is useless to me.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  8 22:36:44 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 22:36:44 -0400
Subject: Probably a stupid newbie question....i got to ask
References: <mailman.997321603.21588.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u66byyn5v.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

fett at tradersdata.com writes:

> How do you use string.atoi to convert a variable integer to a string?

You don't, because string.atoi does the reverse - converts a string
into an integer.  (The "atoi" is for alpha/ascii to integer)

The function documentation spells this out:

    >>> print string.atoi.__doc__
    atoi(s [,base]) -> int

    Return the integer represented by the string s in the given
    base, which defaults to 10.  The string s must consist of one
    or more digits, possibly preceded by a sign.  If base is 0, it
    is chosen from the leading characters of s, 0 for octal, 0x or
    0X for hexadecimal.  If base is 16, a preceding 0x or 0X is
    accepted.

Thus, for example:

    >>> string.atoi('10')
    10
    >>> string.atoi('152')
    152
    >>> string.atoi('-5')
    -5
    >>> string.atoi('0xA',16)
    10    

and it only works on integers (use string.atof for float):

    >>> string.atoi("-152.0")
    Traceback (innermost last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    ValueError: invalid literal for atoi(): -152.0

If you want to go the other way (convert an integer into a string),
you have a few alternatives:

  * Use str(###) - this is the simplest way to get a printable string
    representation of any object.

      >>> str(10)
      '10'

  * Use a format string.  String formatting can use %s to perform
    the same operation as str(), or formats such as %d for integers or
    %f for floating point.

      >>> '%s' % 10
      '10'
      >>> '%d' % 10
      '10'
      >>> '%5d' % 10
      '   10'
      >>> '%5.2f' % 10
      '10.00'

    You can also use %x/%X (hex) or %o (octal) in format strings to
    perform a base conversion.

      >>> '%o' % 10
      '12'
      >>> '%x' % 10
      'a'
      >>> '%X' % 10
      'A'


--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 01:08:13 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:08:13 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com>

Dave Swegen wrote:
> 
> However, I (and others here at work) do have some real concerns about
> the indentation feature. Basically we are quite worried about subtle
> but nasty bugs creeping in. Take the following code for instance:
> 
> for i in [1234]:
>         print i
>         print "hello"
> 
> Perfectly fine, valid code. But one indentation step wrong, and you end
> up with perfectly fine, valid code that does something else, ie
> 
> for i in [1234]:
>         print i
> print hello

On the other hand, with certain other languages which use 
braces sometimes but not always, you can get a similar effect:

for (i = 1234; i <= 1234; i++)
    printf("%d\n", i);
    printf("hello\n");

Those dang braces just don't help if you don't use 'em. :-)

> I imagine that these sort of problems might not only appear due to
> incorrect coding, but also things such as broken mailers, applying
> patches from people using different indent levels etc

Broken mailers are, well, broken, and I don't think many of
us pay them much attention.  We also probably make sure we
don't send real code unpackaged as text very often, so the
issue doesn't arise.  

As far as people using different indent levels, this one also 
rarely arises.  Python, more than any other language I recall
seeing, has a consistent coding style across a very large
portion of its user base.  That is very likely helped along
largely by http://www.python.org/doc/essays/styleguide.html

> So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?

*In practice*, this is rare enough to be acceptable.  Proper
education of programmers using Python makes its occurrence
effectively negligible.  It does happen that somebody tries
to edit some code with an editor which displays tabs as
four characters (a Very Bad Thing), but this is usually 
caught quite quickly and fixed.  If you have a relatively
consistent coding style in the first place, you will NOT
find this to be an issue.

Maybe more importantly, if you don't actually use TABs, 
or you consistently treat TABs as eight spaces, the problem 
won't arise.  I think most Python programmers tend towards 
spaces _only_, and that mostly avoids any problems 
_in practice_. 

What may well happen is you will find after a brief time
coding in Python that you find it so refreshingly readable
and easy to type, that you will quickly start to look with
extreme distaste on code which actually _requires_ explicit
block begin/end markers.  Python's vastly higher readability
more than makes up for the marginal increased risk of problems
caused by indentation mismatches.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Aug  2 20:50:51 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 00:50:51 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <9kchf3$meu$1@news.btv.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <Lzma7.82971$Xr6.413087@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Peter Mayne:

> Note that .Net is *not* offering a core language, but a Common
> Language Runtime (CLR) upon which you can layer any language
> you like, and all of the languages will interact happily with each other.

   .NET does this by constraining the types and features usable in the
library interface to the Common Language Subset, whereas a Python (or Dylan,
or ...) specific library can use additional language features to create a
better library. The .NET CLS doesn't support multi-dispatch, backtracking,
deterministic finalization, multiple inheritance, generics, or closures
AFAICS. Individual languages can provide these over the CLR but you can not
then use them from all the other languages without resorting to clumsy
wrappers that work around the CLS limitations.

   Generators are one of the better recent additions to Python and I expect
libraries to start exporting them. Will other .NET languages be able to
consume these? Are they convertable to .NET iterators?

> (Yes, all three of those are or will be available for .Net.)

   They've been announced for .NET. How many actually get delivered for .NET
release 1 and then stay alive is another thing and I'm very sceptical.
Several COBOL for Java compilers were produced (I worked on one myself) but
they all look dead now. If Python.NET doesn't speed up a lot, it doesn't
look viable to me.

   Neil





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Aug 30 20:17:15 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (dman)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:17:15 -0400
Subject: [Tutor] How to change Windows Environment Variable
In-Reply-To: <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOCELICCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>; from mkhan12@kornet.net on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:43:12AM +0900
References: <3B8E62DC.4090305@yahoo.com> <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOCELICCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>
Message-ID: <20010830201715.A10315@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

When you ask a new question, just start a new mail, don't reply to a
totally unrelated post.

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:43:12AM +0900, ??? wrote:
| Dear all,
| 
| How to change environment variable on Windows NT or 2000 by python?

>>> import os
>>> print os.putenv.__doc__
putenv(key, value) -> None
Change or add an environment variable.
>>> 

You want os.putenv.

Note that it only affects the python process, not any parent processes
(ie a shell).

HTH,
-D




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 05:43:33 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:43:33 +0200
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9md4o601ll6@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998814219.31022.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> so we can't just reproduce them in the Python docs.  In addition, we don't
> get to see MS's source code, so the only way we have to fill in the gaps
is

The source code for MSVCRT.DLL comes with every installation
of VC++6 (perhaps not with the cheap one for beginners, but
surely Professional and up).  You don't get to see the sources
for the underlying operating systems (quite likely very
different ones for the 95/98/ME lineage vs the NT/2000/XP
one, of course:-), but the C runtime's sources often help.


Alex





From paul at boddie.net  Thu Aug  9 04:33:13 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 01:33:13 -0700
Subject: pyFlash
References: <Qshc7.32632$5c.2387629@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108090033.46119f4a@posting.google.com>

"MNX tech services" <rjford at mediaexpo.net> wrote in message news:<Qshc7.32632$5c.2387629 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Would it make sense to use static Flash 5.0 pages as a browser-based GUI
> against a Python backend?  Wouldn't it have the advantage of displaying
> absolutely uniformly across all platforms, along with providing a vast array
> of widgets?

That's what the Enhydra people are advocating - see
http://www.enhydra.org. Of course, by "all platforms" you actually
mean "the major platforms"...

Paul


From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug  9 07:32:09 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:32:09 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Hello!

After some time working with Python I noticed that
I use "-s and '-s according to the following rule:

I use "" quotes when I specify value MANUALLY. That is, in
most cases.
On the other hand, I use '' where quotes are generated
automatically. This is consistent with repr(), which
gives ''.

The same rules differenciate """ and '''.

Exception is made when I use '' to put single " inside, like in:
'"'
and also sometimes I use ' ' to specify literal constants which belong to
some definite set, required by some function, like 'exec', 'eval',
'single' to compile().

And ever more rarely I still use ' ' to specify single character, when I
want to emphasize compatibility with C.

I wonder if there are idiomatic differences between quotes, but
who knows? (apart from cases mentioned in the Style Guide)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Thursday, August 09, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "NEWS! Stolen painting found by tree" _/




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 18:46:16 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:46:16 -0400
Subject: TypeError
References: <3B8AB9F7.4020707@hotmail.com> <3B8C04F0.30906@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8Vi7.60091$54.3282636@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Martijn" <martijn_500 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B8C04F0.30906 at hotmail.com...
[ ... ]
> It still doesn`t work. This is a code snippet example from Python 2.1
Bible:
>
> class Wallet:
> "where does my money go ?"
> WalletCnt = 0
> def __init__(self,balance = 0):
> self.balance = balance
> Wallet.WalletCnt = Wallet.WalletCnt + 1
> def getPaid(self,amnt):
> self.balance = self.balance +1
> self.display()
>
> def spend(self,amnt):
> self.balance = self.balance -1
> self.display()
>
> def display:
> print 'New Balance: $%.2f; % self.balance
>
>
This is the kind of bible that manufactures agnostics ;-)

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Aug 14 10:29:43 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:29:43 +0200
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
References: <9lb1ut$a7i$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <j4hevavhns.fsf@porthos.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Carsten Schr?der" <carsten.schroeder at hoergeraete-schroeder.de> writes:

> May anybody please tell me which GERMAN book suits best for a python
> beginner?

I'm certainly biased, but I'd still recommend

  Python 2 
  Martin von L?wis / Nils Fischbeck
  Addison-Wesley 2000
  ISBN 3-8273-1691-X

Regards,
Martin


From dean at valtronics.co.za  Sat Aug 18 11:33:45 2001
From: dean at valtronics.co.za (DR)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:33:45 +0200
Subject: typechecking etc??
References: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b7e8d15$0$222@proctor>

(although some respondents felt that precision in
> approach and thinking, richness in language and naming choices, plus
> compiler efficiency made sensitivity preferable).


Talking about compiler efficiency, is there any way to write an extension
that would allow python to be optionally strongly typed?




From dinu at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 15 11:03:46 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:03:46 GMT
Subject: Interfaces (Was: Progress on missing features?)
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de> <9lc1ir01rqf@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b7a8e52.79174787@news.t-online.de>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:25:22 +0200, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Dinu Gherman" <dinu at reportlab.com> wrote in message
>news:3b794800.115888839 at news.t-online.de...
>> Hi,
>>
>> given the recent burst of new features in Python I do wonder
>> what happend to those that are missing from Python for a
>> long while now? I'm listing here only these:
>>
>>   - interfaces
>>   - class methods
>>   - type indicators (opt.)
>>
>> Being aware of the class/type unification announced for
>> before Python 3000, I'm not listing this one above.
>
>Class methods are part of Python 2.2 alpha, which you can
>download and try out.  Regarding typing issues, Guido very
>recently mentioned that the types SIG is active for a few
>weeks a year, mostly spent recalling where they were last
>time, so, while eventually optional declarations may be
>slated to appear, it may be best not to hold one's breath
>while waiting.
>
>On interfaces, see:
>http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0245.html
>regarding syntax issues -- status is draft, and Python
>version is said to be 2.2;
>http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0246.html
>regarding 'protocol adaptation' -- same status and
>version.
>I have no idea exactly what that 'version' means in
>the PEP's -- e.g., iterators (PEP 234), which emerge
>with Python 2.2, are described in the PEP as having
>Python version of 2.1.
>
>Alex


Thanks, Alex! Now let's pass this on to Michel, then...

Hi Michel,

I've been reading your PEP 245 now and this fits very
much what I'd expect Python interfaces to look like.
What is the state of the art with it? 

The Wiki supposed to discuss this is pretty inactive 
isn't it? And what is the relationship to PEP 246 for 
which I have not seen any place to discuss it?

Thanks,

Dinu


-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 15:12:35 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 12:12:35 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net> <7x1ym8jyuk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lo5ub1g3p@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xitfj6ezg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> Unfortunately, gmpy just relies on GMP, which in turn only has the
> carefully tuned machine-language inner loops on a few selected
> architectures -- elsewhere they're replaced by carefully-coded C
> which, indeed, cannot be quite as fast.  I noticed because at first
> I only had a C-only version of GMP for Windows/VC++6; when I
> moved to a GMP version including the port of the assembly part,
> performance soared [and another boost came from switching to
> an Athlon chip from a pure-Intel one -- so I sort of suspect that
> there should probably be different machine-language inner loops
> for top performance on Athlon vs Pentium3, given different
> caching, branch-prediction, etc, etc].  Unfortunately I did no
> careful measurements (mea culpa!) so thanks for giving them...

The main bottleneck in C is integer multiplication.  Most computers
have an integer multiply instruction that multiplies two words and
gives a doubleword result (32*32->64 bits), so in asm you just use it.
There's not a good way to code that portably in C, so you end up using
four 16*16->32 multiplications instead of one 32*32->64
multiplication.  That slows you down by a factor of 4 right away.
The other differences coming from e.g. differences in cpu architecture
between x86 variants are minor by comparison.  One exception: the
original Pentium had a much faster FMUL (floating point mul) instruction
than IMUL, and it paid off to totally reorganize the bignum calculation
to do the intermediate calculations in floating point.

  ftp://ftp.compapp.dcu.ie/pub/crypto/timings.doc

(an MS Word file, unfortunately) has a bunch of description of how
to do fast bignum arithmetic.  See also http://indigo.ie/~mscott
for some benchmarks.


> > in portable C.  Python's arithmetic is around 100x faster than
> > perl's Math::BigInt.
> 
> Interesting -- I guess (and hope, because competition is what
> keeps everybody on their toes:-) that some devoted Perlist is
> already busy recoding their big-int module for performance?-)

I think there are GMP and other native C extensions for fast
arithmetic in Perl.  Math::BigInt is written in pure Perl,
representing long ints as strings.  That's why it's so slow.


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  8 22:17:19 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:17:19 -0400
Subject: Probably a stupid newbie question....i got to ask
References: <mailman.997321603.21588.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B71F2AF.4613A5B3@engcorp.com>

fett at tradersdata.com wrote:
> 
> How do you use string.atoi to convert a variable integer to a string?
> I have tied theese different ways...
> daverse = string.atoi(daverse)
> daverse = string.atoi(), daverse
> daverse = string.atoi("daverse")

You don't, for several reasons. :)

string.atoi() has been deprecated since release 2.0.  
Don't use it unless you're using an older version of Python.
(The replacement, as documented in the global module 
index for module "string", is the built-in int().)

The other reason you don't, is that string.atoi (and int())
converts strings which contain ASCII representations of
integers to the integer value, not the other way around.

You are probably looking for this answer, from the FAQ
(which I recommend you read thoroughly):

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.45&req=search

(A last suggestion: when posting questions like this,
I recommend you type your experiments in the interactive
interpreter, and when they don't work out, cut and
paste the *entire* sequence (including the exceptions!)
into your posting.  This will make it a lot easier for
people to figure out what you really want to do, and
why what you tried didn't work.)

Cheers!
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 20 03:33:28 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 03:33:28 -0400
Subject: Overflow-less integer arithmetic?
In-Reply-To: <3B80A82C.2060A310@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENKLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Erik Max Francis]
> I'm working on an application where I need arithmetic to be done modulo
> 2^32 (actually, often it will be 2^n with n < 32).  Python (very nicely)
> throws OverflowErrors when an arithmetic calculation breaks these
> bounds,

Do you really find such OverflowErrors more useful than not?  I'm asking
because PEP 237 seeks to eradicate them:

    http://python.sf.net/peps/pep-0237.html

and "Part A" is a candidate for Python 2.2 (in short, "Part A" *just*
auto-converts overflowing int + - * / to longs).  In full,

   A. Short int operations that currently raise OverflowError return
      a long int value instead.  This is the only change in this
      phase.  Literals will still distinguish between short and long
      ints.  The other semantic differences listed above (including
      the behavior of <<) will remain.  Because this phase only
      changes situations that currently raise OverflowError, it is
      assumed that this won't break existing code.  (Code that
      depends on this exception would have to be too convoluted to be
      concerned about it.)  For those concerned about extreme
      backwards compatibility, a command line option will allow a
      warning to be issued at this point, but this is off by default.

> but this is one rare case where I'd prefer it not to happen.
> Essentially I'd like things to behave just as if you had a signed
> 32-bit two's-complement number.

Python longs are unbounded signed 2's-comp integers, so you're very close.

> What is the standard Pythonic way to accomplish this?

Use Python longs.  For op in + - * ^ | & ^, the last N bits of

    long1 op long2

are exactly the same as if you had "real" N-bit signed 2's-comp arithmetic.
"Signed" vs "unsigned" is pretty much a mental conceit here too -- faking
2's-comp N-bit unsigned arithmetic is just as easy.  For signed, it's the
conversion at the end that's delicate.

> The obvious thing (catching the OverflowError and then doing the
> computation in longs and converting back) didn't seem to work, since
> the obvious bitmask didn't do the job, since obviously the bitwise
> and operator doesn't have quite the same meaning for longs:

The & operator isn't really the problem.

> max at oxygen:~% python
> Python 2.0 (#2, Apr  4 2001, 19:28:30)
> [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> i = 2147483648L # one greater than the largest int

I took the liberty of changing the impossible-to-read trailing "l" to an "L"
there.

> >>> i
> 2147483648L
> >>> i & 0xffffffff
> 2147483648L # whoops

You're getting screwed by the hex literal:  you're doing

    long & int

so the int part gets converted to long first.  But 0xffffffff is -1 as a
short int (on a 32-bit box), so coerces to -1L, i.e. to an infinite string
of 1 bits.

    i & 0xffffffff == i

is thus always true on a 32-bit box, regardless of the value of i, and
regardless of whether i is short or long.  Stick an L at the end of the hex
literal to get 32 1-bits, which is infinitely fewer than you're getting now
<wink>.

It's unclear to me whether you want a negative value in the end represented
as a short int or still as a long.  Here's both ways:

def tolong(i, bits):
    i &= (1L << bits) - 1  # get last "bits" bits, as unsigned
    if i & (1L << (bits - 1)):  # is negative in N-bit 2's comp
        i -= 1L << bits         # ... so make it negative
    return i

def toshort(i, bits):
    return int(tolong(i, bits))

print tolong(1 << 31, 32)
print tolong(1L << 31, 32)

print toshort(1 << 31, 32)
print toshort(1L << 31, 32)

That prints -2147483648 four times.




From tksee at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 04:55:39 2001
From: tksee at yahoo.com (Tksee Lhsoh)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:55:39 +0900
Subject: Unicode File Conversion
Message-ID: <3B69158B.40EB156C@yahoo.com>


I would like to convert unicode strings to a certain code
such as "Thai, Korean, Greek,...".

Is there any converter or something useful for above purpose ?


(Thank you, Alex and Martin,
 those who answered my earlier question, "Unicode File".)





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 10:33:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:33:33 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
news:psoy9os5a88.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
    ...
> > Applications whose "performance bottleneck" is _100%_ of their code?!
> > Never heard of any such thing.  10% to 20% seems to be common.  What
> > counter-examples do you have in mind?
>
> Not a bottleneck, but a continuous degredation of performance across the
> entire application due to memory use, overhead for method dispatching,
etc.
> This situation is only likely to happen in very large OO applications.

Yes, and "static typing" doesn't help there, unless you're ready to go whole
hog, a la C++: allow polymorphism to break by having value-objects versus
reference-objects (even value-types versus reference-types, a la C# or
sort-of
a la Java & Eiffel, while being a big complication doesn't help much there),
"slicing" derived objects to base objects on assignment (in value-cases),
having some methods be non-virtual, and so on.

If "this object is of type Foo" means, as in Java, C#, Eiffel, &c, "OR of
any
type derived from Foo", you still need all objects to live in the heap and
all
method calls to dispatch dynamically.  An optimizer MAY be able (if it's
given all the relevant code) to infer that the object is always exactly of
type Foo -- but then there is no performance help at all from the static
type
declaration, which is what we're supposed to be discussing in this
sub-thread.

Far more useful than (Java/Eiffel/&c) type declaration (which still need
dynamic dispatching of methods) is supposed to be runtime caching of
the dispatching (I believe that's what Self uses, for example).  When it
finds an obj.somemethod() [possibly only in a loop or someplace that
is flagged as requiring time-optimization], rather than compiling it
down to:
    "do the complicated search to find the specific somemethod for this
        obj and save it in temp1"
    "call temp1"
it compiles something like:
    "get the typesignature-hash for obj and save it in temp1"
    "if temp1 is different from the previously saved temp2:"
        "do the complicated search to find the specific somemethod for this
            obj and save it in temp3"
        "save temp1 into temp2"
    "call temp3"
or, more refinedly, saving the last few typesignature-hashes in a LRU
queue, etc, etc.  This kind of optimization (it would seem: I have no
first-hand experience!) _replaces_ (more effectively) the one enabled
by static-typing: there would therefore be no substantial performance
advantages to having static typing *as well as* such method-dispatch
information caching.

> There are also deployment situations where you might not be allowed to
make
> use of C extensions.

Well, sure, Jython being the typical case:-).  But then, there are lots
of deployment situations where I'm not allowed to use Python at all
(e.g., an ISP offering sites which include scripting in PHP or Perl, but
NOT Python), and increasing Python's popularity is the only really
practicable counter to those -- increasing the complexity of the
language in pursuit of modest performance gains is definitely not
a road to popularity increases (vide Dylan).


> > Not by itself, surely -- but, when using Python together with
lower-level
> > languages for that 10% to 20% of code whose speed really matters, I
> > can't easily think of examples.
>
> But why can't Python be fast enough without resorting to extensions?
Forcing

Python can be fast enough for most tasks today (and more every day,
as machines get faster).  It could be fast enough (without extensions)
for a few more tasks (perhaps) if very substantial resources were
expended in adapting advanced optimization technologies (I don't
think projects to that end in the past, such as Vyper, went anyplace,
but that could change in the future -- if enough people thought it
matters, strongly enough to be willing to donate time, money and/or
skills to the purpose).  Perhaps some language changes might make
optimization slightly easier, although I have my doubts whether such
slightly easier optimization could be achieved without losing the key
characteristics of Python's simplicity and power (untrammeled signature
based polymorphism, for example: if the libraries started being full
of type-testing to make optimizer-writers' life slightly easier, that
would strike a huge blow to Python's power AND simplicity).

> users to learn C in order to make their Python code fast detracts from
> Python's advantage as a simple, easy-to-use language.

What would really detract from that advantage would be making
Python any LESS simple, easy to use, or powerful (e.g., *encouraging*
the horrid practice of type-testing).  Most users don't need to code
C themselves -- they'll keep using general-purpose C-coded
extensions such as Numeric, PIL, and so on -- or components
usable cross-language on platforms with decent support for
componentization (such as Microsoft's: *everything* is available
as an Active/X [COM] component, typically in two dozen versions
of varying price, footprint, speed, ease-of-use, stability, etc; one
just has to find and choose the best components for one's use,
just as one does, say, in VB or Javascript).  Hopefully in the future
we'll get decent componentization everywhere -- I consider the
lack of it on BSD and Linux variants today their largest problem
(hopefully XPCOM, or Ximian's bonobo/mono, or *SOMETHING*
will help on this score).  SWIG and friends also offer some chances
to put components together from existing libraries without having
to learn how to code in C.

The crucial issue is to have Python avoid the key error that almost
every other language has made: trying to be everything to
everyone, and thereby becoming too complex and complicated,
and seriously impacting everybody's productivity.  Python keeps
simplicity and power together by *NOT* striving to offer very
easy optimization capabilities -- if advanced compilers can get
good optimization anyway, so much the better, but the purpose
of the *LANGUAGE* is to keep simple and powerful and thereby
give its users incredible productivity, *PERIOD* (and I'm quite
happy the "reference implementation" by Guido and friends also
abides by KISS except in a few hot-spots).


> I think that adding features to allow Python powerful enough to remove the
> need for extensions would be worth a little bit of extra complexity.  I

I could hardly disagree more deeply, profoundly and totally than in fact
I do.  Nothing will remove the need for extensions, although their use
may become less frequent.  Consider C++, which NEVER cared about
complexity (well, harldy ever: Stroustrup did make one key decision
to NOT allow overloading by return type, thanks be) and went full steam
ahead for relatively-easy optimizability.  It STILL needs "extensions" in
some cases to get to 100% of a machine's power: why do you think
GMP has such large parts coded in machine language (for some CPU's),
and why do you think Intel goes to the bother of releasing fine-tuned
machine-language libraries for numeric & similar operations on its
own CPU's?  Because that's stuff the C/Fortran/C++ programmer STILL
needs as 'extensions'.  Making Java fast enough for many uses requires
JNI-interfaced C or machine-language extensions too (did you know that
SWIG supports generation of extensions for Java, as well as for Python,
Perl, etc?-).  Etc, etc.

Meanwhile, the complications are something you pay for EVERY day --
in extra bugs in the compilers/libraries/tools, in your own productivity,
in teaching and learning the language.  Thanks, but, *NO*, thanks.

Python IS powerful enough, and all it needs is the removal of a few
_restrictions_ (chiefly those connected to the type/class split) and
sundries.  *IF* (a *BIG* if!) optional type annotations can be added
in a way that adds almost no complexity to the language, why not --
but the big-if remains.  As far as I'm concerned, the concept of
"protocol adaptation" (see the relevant PEP) is more important than
any language-features that might support it (it could very well live
in the libraries -- nice syntax-sugar is no biggie:-) -- not for
performance, but mainly to eradicate the evil of type-testing
for good:-).


Alex


> personally don't think that type declarations would add much complexity,
but I
> guess I can see how someone new to them might be confused.  Of course,
that
> same person would be lost once they had to learn C.
>
> - Christopher




From cwebster at nevada.edu  Tue Aug 21 13:36:10 2001
From: cwebster at nevada.edu (Corran Webster)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:36:10 -0700
Subject: simple graphics lib
References: <b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cwebster-2108011036400001@192.168.0.4>

In article <b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065 at posting.google.com>,
k98jh01 at kzoo.edu (Bignose3) wrote:

> I am a student learning python on my own, coming from a C++ backgroud.
>  I am working on a simple project, a simulation of fish, as a way to
> gain experience using python.  I am looking for a simple graphics lib
> that will allow me to display objects- like circles or squares to
> represent the objects I am coding.  Is anyone aware of a lib that will
> allow me to do this.  When learning C++ I used the CMU Graphics Lib
> which worked great.  Let me know if anyone has any ideas.

Tkinter may be all you need for this, and should be accessible on most
platforms.  In particular, the Canvas widget gives a nice, dynamic drawing
environment.  I'd suggest having a look at the brownian.py and electron.py
demos in the Demo/tkinter/guido subdirectory of the python distribution -
these do the same thing that you want to do but with brownian motion and
electron drift rather than flocking/schooling.

You might also want to look at Sping/Piddle (piddle.sf.net) which, while
not optimised for animation, provides a nice cross-platform drawing model
and has a much shorter learning curve than Tkinter.

Corran


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug  9 19:34:07 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:34:07 -0400
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <mailman.997392016.22621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B731DEF.28DB9E6A@engcorp.com>

(edited for conventional quoting style)

Lance.Ellinghaus at eConnections.com wrote:
> 
> Joe Knapka wrote:
> > So it seems that (shudder) There's More Than One
> > Way To Do It. Isn't there supposed to be one (obvious) 
> > way?
> 
> As you will learn through the years as a programmer, 
> there is normally more than one way to do anything in 
> software. It becomes a personal choice based on previous 
> programming and personal philosophy.

Joe was referring, of course, to one of Python's credos,
copied from one of the PSU's secret files by Tim Peters
(see http://www.pauahtun.org/TYPython/PythonWay.html) which
claims "There should be one -- and preferably only one --
obvious way to do it."  

(It is commonly presumed he was not referring to sex...)

(Joe, I think the "make a copy and iterate over it 
while removing from the original" might be the 
"obvious" way to a beginner, while the filter
technique would become obvious to a more advanced
programmer.  More likely, this is one of the few
cases where the "preferably only one" wish fails.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From woodm at equire.com  Wed Aug 22 18:11:21 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:11:21 -0600
Subject: vi % alternive command
References: <3B8417F8.1B469E91@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3B842E09.1000304@equire.com>

Um...  Not quite, but sort of.

you can use your open lines as a sort of cheat.  for instance '}' should 
move you to the next empty line.  Thus, >} will indent the rest of the 
section you're in.  Unfortunately, it doesn't work as well as you would 
like.

There was a VIM script at :
http://vim.sf.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=30

but I don't think it works like I would like it to.

But that's about it.


Curtis Jensen wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> In vi the "%" command will jump to the closing or openeing (,{,[, etc. 
> This is helpful to find the end of blocks (if blocks, function blocks,
> etc).  Has anyone figured out and equivalent commend for vi/vim to jump
> to the end/beginning of a block?  Thanks.
> 




From fdrake at acm.org  Wed Aug 15 15:41:36 2001
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:41:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20010815194136.8BEE328846@beowolf.digicool.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

More material on defining new types in C in "Extending & Embedding the
Python Interpreter":

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/ext/defining-new-types.html




From patio87 at aol.com  Thu Aug 23 23:43:15 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 03:43:15 GMT
Subject: newbie:Strange Error
References: <168b4ef7.0108231542.46647c8f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20010823234315.14313.00005052@mb-mi.aol.com>

Well, when I copyied your little prog and ran it in my python it worked fine.
Take your time with your programs. 


From roy at panix.com  Fri Aug 31 21:30:46 2001
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:30:46 -0400
Subject: raising SyntaxError while parsing file?
Message-ID: <roy-2A20AF.21304631082001@news1.panix.com>

I've got a class which parses a data file, and I want to be able to signal 
a parse error.  Would it be appropriate to raise SyntaxError for that, or 
is SyntaxError really reserved for errors in the python code itself?


From bob at tharin.com  Sun Aug  5 00:41:11 2001
From: bob at tharin.com (Lang)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 21:41:11 -0700
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
Message-ID: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com>

Any cgi/web person out there,

I wrote a couple cgi scripts that I use to manage a database.  When I
send changes through a form, it calls a script that makes the database
commit.  Once it is done with the commit, it prints out a return
button (that's all that shows up on the page) which needs to be pushed
to return to the main page.  How do I call the script, run the commit,
and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?

I think that this is pretty basic, but I can't find an answer. 
Thanks.

-Lang


From charlie at begeistert.org  Thu Aug  2 15:17:25 2001
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:17:25 +0200
Subject: Help with Parsing HTML files
Message-ID: <PM00038A90E4982624@gormenghast.unknown.dom>

As part of a prototype I need to be able to plug in several different
content websites and pull headlines to put them on my own website
through the medium of a database. I know that the normal way of doing is
the subscribing to some XML-based format but that isn't possible at the
moment as the streams would be too expensive (around Euro 5000 per
stream per month). We have a couple of Visual Basic scripts doing this
at the moment but I have suggested the move away: the scripts are not
easily reusable or extensible; Python would give us platform
independence and moving from VB + MS SQL to Python + PostgreSQL or
similar has a certain commercial logic.

Scenario: a wbe page providing content (x articles on the page all in
the same format) there are no handy comment tags in the source
differentiating the various parts of interest.

What's the best way to go about parsing the HTML? I've looked at sgmllib
and htmllib and am a bit lost. The worst thing for me about Python's
documentation is it's lack of examples. I leafed through all the Python
books in the bookshop today but failed to find much inspiration. One of
the problems I'll admit to having is not being able to work out how to
use a class simply by reading it's code - it just doesn't work for me
:-((

I see the following alternatives:

1) extend and improve on treating the source as plain-text. Making use
of regular expressions might be useful here.
2) use a library module to parse the html-source and get it to release
the appropriate objects

I'd really like to be able to have a system which could easily be
trained to deal with new source formats on a kind of template basis.

Here's a made up example source

<body>
...
<table>
<tr>
<td><img>Date</td>
<td><font>title</font><br><br>Article</td>
</tr>
... continues with the rest of the articles

I'm currently analysing the source and working out ways to separate
articles from each other and then read individual articles. As I'm
having to read the source into a single string I can see sgmllib and
htmllib calling, I just don't know what they are saying to me so at the
moment it's a question

while string contains articles:
    markers = [list of markers]
    start = string.find(markers[0])
    stop = string.find(markers[-1])
    article = string[start:stop]
    do_something_with_article(article, markers=markers) # pulls out the
contens and writes them into the database
    string = string[stop:]

Would it be possible to take this source and mark it up as a template
which would in turn generate markers for automated parsing? So
<td><img>Date</td>
would become
<!-- date_start --><td><img>Date</td><!-- date_end -->
Then a program could learn how to parse a new page based on the template
and happily go about doing it. This would separate templating from
programming and be useful in itself.

Would this be a good idea? How would I go about doing this "properly"
using the modules?

Many thanx for any help and pointers.

Charlie


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 04:01:51 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 01:01:51 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xg0aoiikw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> If you believe that then Python might not be the language for you. The
> problem with enforcing privacy is that the designer can seldom
> anticipate all of the possible uses of their code and placing arbitrary
> access restriction can make it impossible for the user to accomplish
> their task.

Nonetheless, that's the desired outcome sometimes.  Any networked
system has to include security features the whole POINT of which is to
make certain "tasks" impossible.  Anyway, the RExec/Bastion package
seems to accomplish what is needed, pretty much.


From Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com  Wed Aug 15 04:34:38 2001
From: Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com (Peter Mayne)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:34:38 +1000
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <memo.20010805001356.60291L@digitig.compulink.co.uk> <slrn9ni35f.mpi.Anders@tika.arnholm.nu>
Message-ID: <9lfk9t$ram$1@news.btv.ibm.com>

"Anders Arnholm" <Anders at Arnholm.nu> wrote in message
news:slrn9ni35f.mpi.Anders at tika.arnholm.nu...
>
> In short, preprocessor macros are dangerous.

More precisely, C/C++ preprocessor macros are dangerous.

BLISS has two data types: value (which is an integer or an address,
depending on how you want to use it) and bitfield. All other data types
(structures, arrays (triangular, jagged, etc, with and without bounds
checking), and pretty much anything else you can think of) are all
implemented with a macro facility that is tightly integrated with the
language, and is very flexible and extremely useful.

While we're on the subject of punctuation, what's the historical reason for
the : at the end of a compound statement? Forgetting the : is still the
single most prevalent source of syntax errors for me.

I can see it being useful in

if condition: print "true"

but in multiple line blocks, why isn't it optional, much as the ; statement
separator is optional? (I'm not sure if it is a separator, because it is
allowed at the end of a line, but it'll do for now.)

PJDM
--
Peter Mayne
IBM GSA (but the opinions are mine)
Canberra, ACT, Australia
This post is covered by Sturgeon's Law.




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 12:19:36 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:19:36 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:22:10 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998814219.31022.python-list at python.org>:

:[Sheila King]

:> I've been pouring over the Active State site, as well. The win32
:> extensions do, apparently, provide access to the LockFile and LockFileEx
:> functions.
:> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203
:>
:> It's just that I was hoping to accomplish this without requiring the use
:> of the win32 extensions. (Maybe it's silly of me, but I tend to want to
:> avoid requiring others to install stuff to use the code.)
:
:Sure!  You need to understand, though, that Python is coded in C, and C is
:of no help here:  C defines *nothing* about file locking. 

I understand that.

: That means
:there's nothing Python can build on cross-platform either.  Even if the only
:thing you cared about were Linux systems, you could spend many weeks
:learning all the subtleties involved with file-locking on it alone.  It's a
:mess.

<sigh> Thanks for the encouragement. No, I know you're just trying to be
honest about the whole thing.

:You're trying to solve a very difficult problem.  I don't know whether the
:recipe you found is reliable, but years of experience tell me that anything
:that short won't work as intended in all cases (for example, I see the
:recipe builds on flock on Unixish boxes, and that may be useless if a
:network file system gets involved).

OK, well I guess I'm not going to worry about the networking thing. For
one, it's beyond me. And for two, I don't expect my code to need to
access files remotely from the machine it is running on.

:Of course not.  But "msvcrt" means MicroSoft Visual C++ RunTime, and if you
:use *that* obscure module, then, yes, you had better know what you're doing.
:msvcrt is a module for people comfortable with MSVC; it's not suitable for
:others.  Indeed, there's *no* function in that module I'd recommend for
:non-expert use.

OK, so if we went with the win32all Win API extensions, are these better
documented and better understood ? Would it be possible to do more
reliable file locking with those libraries?

As you will see in this article (when it becomes available on Google):
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=%3C0q4iotg9ld08s7850vv3dqfi2hnbefv015%404ax.com%3E

apparently msvcrt doesn't allow one to acquire a non-blocking lock?

:> ...
:> What you see above is the confusion of someone who is trying to learn
:> about file locking and handling concurrent access at the same time that
:> she is attempting to learn how Python handles it AND how to do it cross
:> platform. No more. No less.
:
:Python doesn't handle file locking.  Perl pretends to <wink>.  If I were you
:I'd try another approach (for example, if your program has control over
:access to the files of interest, you can invent your own locking
:*abstraction* in software and leave painful OS-specific gimmicks out of it
:entirely).


For CGI, I need file locking. The alternatives are (as I understand
them):

1. Have a server running, which controls access to the files, thus
ensuring that only one process can write to the files at a time.

2. Something dealing with sockets, where the CGI script tries to see if
a certain socket is listening to determine whether it has permission to
write to the file...details are hazy and I'm not going to look this one
up again right now.

3. Check whether a certain file exists to determine whether or not the
process can have permission to write to the files.

The problems with # 1 and 2, is that it requires a process running on
the web server all the time, and I am not allowed to do that on the
shared, community server where I host my website. (I don't think most
people who do not run a dedicated server are allowed to have processes
running in the background on the server.)

The problem with #3, is I've heard that is unreliable as well. Problems
with whether the file will be deleted or written if the program crashes.
Then, if the file is still there/missing, subsequent calls to the CGI
script will think that they have permission to write when they don't.
Or, the process may think that it can't have permission, when it can.
Etc...

Since in a CGI situation, you may have many processes running in
parallel, then "my program" doesn't control access to the files, since
there may be many instances of the program. Actually, this is what I
thought to do originally, but After going over # 1, 2, 3 above, I
thought...gee, this isn't going to work. Then, I found a really nifty
example in Mark Lutz Programming Python, Chapter 14 where he does a
shelf database implementation for his Book Errata website. He discusses
file locking in there, but only for a Unix-type platform.

I really don't see any way around file locking for the type of
application I'm trying to write. However, I guess after seeing all the
trouble with the msvcrt module, and how it doesn't even seem to allow
shared locking access to a file, that I will go ahead and use the
win32all extensions. I'm supposing that will allow better control?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 30 09:20:40 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:20:40 +0200
Subject: Is Python powerful enough for this?
References: <mailman.999173154.24912.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mle8l$20c1$1@norfair.nerim.net>

What's in the standard urllib can do it for you in few python lines...

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib.html





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 31 21:08:04 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 18:08:04 -0700
Subject: COM/CORBA/DCOP (was: Hello people. I have some questions)
References: <mailman.999284688.27367.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xsne7en0r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bruce Sass <bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> writes:
> Another faction (KDE) has DCOP.  They started out using CORBA, iirc,
> but then went their own way.  Is DCOP even fancier than CORBA, or
> are they just being different?.  Is it possible to get COM, CORBA, and
> DCOP to talk to each other?

I don't know anything about DCOP but my guess is that it's closer to
COM than CORBA.  Most people considered CORBA too heavyweight for
connecting desktop apps and were surprised that ORBit (the Gnome ORB)
was able to get as good performance as it does.

> I'm hoping Alex M. gets his Linux systems setup soon and starts
> delving into the matter.

Yes, that will be interesting.  


From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Wed Aug  8 06:07:17 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:07:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <slrn9n23ql.qp5.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:54:10 +0200, Piotr Legiecki 
<piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl> wrote:
>I'v created dictionary named d={}. Its structure is like this: 
>I'd like to print all values stored in  'd'. What is the easiest way to do
>it?


for v in d.values():
	print v


Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Aug  3 01:44:21 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 01:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108030131220.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

## more on combining generators
## (inspired by previous discussion and more recent one on python-dev)
## Nested generators is the python equivalent of 
## unix pipeline commands.  -- Steve 

from __future__ import generators

## You need:

## a generator: (you can also start with a list)

def Ints():
        n = 0
        while 1:
                yield n
                n += 1


## one or more filters:

def Test( gen, test ):
        for x in gen:
                if test(x):     yield x

## a terminator:

## ( by condition... )

def Quit( gen, test ):
        for x in gen:
                if test(x): raise StopIteration
                else: yield x

## ( or by count... )

def Count( gen, n ):
        for x in gen:
                yield x
                n -= 1
                if n == 0 : break 


## shorthand names so the lines don't get too long:

odd = lambda x: Test( x, lambda y: y % 2 )
enough = lambda x: Quit( x, lambda y: y > 100 )
notdiv3 = lambda x: Test( x, lambda y: y % 3 )

## examples:

print "\n odd ints that are not divisible by 3 under 100:"
for i in notdiv3( enough( odd( Ints() ))):
        print i


print "\n first 20 odd ints not divisible by 3:"
for i in Count( notdiv3(odd(Ints())), 20 ):
        print i


# recursive file iterator as a generator:

from os import listdir, path

def Files( start ):
        for file in listdir( start ):
                file = path.join( start, file )
                if path.isfile( file ): yield file
                elif path.isdir(file):
                        for more in Files( file ):
                                yield more


isGif = lambda s: s.lower().find('.gif') >= 0 

# This is MUCH nicer than using os.path.walk() with a callback!

##  print the first 20 gif files I can find in your cwd...
for f in Count(Test( Files('.'), isGif ), 20 ): print f






From alberto at mindspring.com  Sun Aug 26 15:38:21 2001
From: alberto at mindspring.com (Al Gonzalez)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:38:21 -0400
Subject: Single Instance of app
Message-ID: <9mbj7f01054@enews2.newsguy.com>

Platform: Win 2000
Py Ver: 2.1.1
Experience: Beginner in Python

Is there a standard way in Python to determine if an instance on application
is already running.

I'd like to switch focus in some utilities rather than run multiple
instances.

I had thought about having the app send a request to a server and wait for a
response if
none then set itself up as a server in case another version is started.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 21:51:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:51:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Who can send me a Apache for windows2000??Thanks
In-Reply-To: <9mmp2o$fjb$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302150460.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Formalin wrote:

> Who can send me a Apache for windows2000??Thanks

Honestly...

  http://httpd.apache.org/dist/httpd/binaries/win32/apache_1.3.20-win32-src-r2.msi

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Aug 18 07:51:04 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:51:04 +0100
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 17 Aug 2001 20:10:46 -0700, Josh <polopunk209 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>I want to work with PyGAME. But, I know I need to spend a little more
>time with some simple Python programs. But, I have no idea what would
>be a good program for a novice to work on. This isn't helped by the
>fact that the only need I really have for a computer at this point in
>my life is entertainment. Anyway, what do you guys think are some good
>problems for a novice such as myself to tackle? 

Ones you find interesting.

For example, if you are interested in email encryption, you might
want to have a look at my herprip program,
<http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/herbrip.html>.

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 13:24:28 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:24:28 -0700
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com> <1rzo8yn4e0.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7D534C.6C3427D9@ccvcorp.com>


John Hunter wrote:

> Now.  Each time the code froze, I copied the .py file to a suitably
> named version like file1.hang.py, or if it ran I called it
> file1.nohang.py.  That way I could compare exactly what was different
> and could keep a record cause I was trying lots of things.  I came
> back this morning and none of the code that was giving me troubles is
> freezing!??  No reboot, no change in file contents.  So it looks like
> the bug is random (except it sure was repeatable last night).

This is just a guess, of course, but maybe it's specific values for times
that are causing the problems?  Perhaps an am/pm thing?  If the only thing
that's changed is the time of day that you're running it......

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 15 09:20:11 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:20:11 +0200
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org> <9ldbhr01jpr@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <2410795.HGDlbCDJkK@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schrub:

> "Barry A. Warsaw" <barry at zope.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997845263.23320.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
>> handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
>> "maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too
> 
> What about just 'email'?  Is there a requirement that a standard
> library module name ends with 'lib'?

This might be a little too shorthand, as UseNet/NetNews messages use 
the same format.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From wkuang at aludra.usc.edu  Wed Aug  8 20:21:52 2001
From: wkuang at aludra.usc.edu (wkuang)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:21:52 -0700
Subject: embed python in C++
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000@aludra.usc.edu>

hi,

I am interested in having an interpreter handling my c++ program
input/output to add some flexibility, and someone tells me python maybe
one. I searched through python website and unfortanetly got little
information other than a page saying python could be embeded in C++
program. I am wondering if it is possible to have my c++ program read
memory that python generated. For example,

in c++ program, I have a class defined as,

class myclass {

int i;
myclass* ptr;
...
}

and I define a pointer and somehow send it to python (I suppose I could?)

myclass* classptr;


@ python script, I generate a list of class,

myclass *classInPython = new myclass[10];
(sorry, in cpp syntax)
and set each pointer in class member pointing to the next class (as link
list)

After running script, could I read all the classes in my c++ main
function?

Is there any book or website that elaborate embedding stuff? And any
suggestion on script interpreter other than python is welcomed.

Thanks!

Wan Kuang

Electric Engineering - Electrophysics
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90007




From jgitomer at erols.com  Thu Aug 16 23:44:21 2001
From: jgitomer at erols.com (Jerry Gitomer)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:44:21 -0400
Subject: Pmw ScrolledListBox width
Message-ID: <9li3rt$ntm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Okay,

        I must be overlooking the obvious, but how do I specify the 
width of the text in a Pmw ScrolledListBox?  I tried reading the 
docs and then I started experimenting  -- and nothing seems to 
work.   

        I used the All.py program in the Pmw/demos directory as a 
starting point so I have two panes with the left containing the 
treeList and the right open for my called modules to use.  There 
must be room to support a width of 90 characters and 30 rows, 
but all I can get are 7 rows and 20 some odd characters of width.

        What did I miss?
-- 
Jerry Gitomer
Once I learned how to spell DBA, I became one 


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 15 20:03:15 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:03:15 -0700
Subject: Which is the best way...
References: <mailman.997909164.1727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7B0DC3.15E06E4A@ccvcorp.com>

"Matthew D. Wood" wrote:

> I have an interesting code-correctness question.  I firmly believe in
> doing things 'The Right Way' and I'm not sure which of these 3 blocks is
> better.  So, if you code-guru's could help me out I would definitely
> appreciate it.
>

[trimming code]

>
> def first_non_ordered_2 (my_list) :
>        for index in range(len(my_list))[:-1] :
>                if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
>                        return index + 1
>        else :
>                return None
>
> def first_non_ordered_3 (my_list) :
>        try :
>                for index in range(len(my_list)) :
>                       if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
>                                return index + 1
>
>        except IndexError :
>                return None

These two are, IMHO, the best options, though I'd probably do this--

def first_non_ordered_2(my_list):
    for index in range( len(my_list) - 1):
        if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1]:
            return index + 1
    # note that, by dropping off the for-loop, and off the function, we
implicitly return None
    # so the following line is optional
    return None

Not that I'm in any danger of being called a code-guru any time soon.  ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug 10 12:27:40 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:27:40 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com> <j207nt8cb1snjb7hib3k0c9d9ij1jn6vrq@4ax.com> <9l054k01pe9@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <im28ntgbkcpdrcilfikoui63kvbcg7b5tp@4ax.com>

>The "subtleties of reference counting" aren't all that subtle,
>even though it's probably worth using the Boost Python
>Library to be able to forget them.

No, I tend to agree. I've written a half dozen or so extensions myself. However,
during the _first_ extension, I was a bit hazy about _when_ to incref and decref.
It wasn't clear to me what ought to grab a reference and what ought not. After
that was cleared up, I never had any problems again.

C//



From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Aug  7 05:18:40 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:18:40 +0200
Subject: Compiling Python2.2a1 & losing command-line features
In-Reply-To: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <20010807111840.V626@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:43:25PM -0400, Paul Johnston wrote:

> I have used binary and source-compiled versions of Python.  In every case 
> where I use the latter my Python environment loses all its normal niceties 
> like backspace, line-repeat, etc.  Is there a setting or configuration item 
> I need to set to get these back?

You're missing readline. It's auto-detected, and has been since Python 2.1,
but apparently it's not autodetecting readline in your case. Perhaps you
didn't install the readline header files ? (Common problem on Linux systems
with a 'packaged' libreadline, where you need to install 'readline-dev' or
'readline-devel' to get the headers.)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 22 02:09:19 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:09:19 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <9ltt9t$5i5$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEDHLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> Hmmm -- it looks to me we were VERY close to a BDFL pronouncement
> that assignment to aninstance.__class__ was going away, and that by
> default classes were going to be unmodifiable -- both for performance
> reasons, and to protect 'typical users' from themselves -- and it may
> yet happen, of course.  "dangerous" seems an apt adjective here.

[Aahz Maruch]
> No, we weren't.  Part of the reason I paid little attention to the
> brouhaha was because it was remarkably easy to channel Guido and figure
> out that *at* *worst* the restriction would only apply to classes
> inheriting from object.  Yes, even after the type/class unification was
> complete.  Once Guido realized that the decision would affect things
> other than just aninstance.__class__, he backed away *very* quickly.

Ouch.  Aahz, I don't know whether to say "Bravo!", or to try to turn the
community against you.  You're the only other person in 10 years to display
the one trivial skill it takes to do my job, so I fear my livelihood is at
stake here <wink>.

bravo-it-is-ly y'rs  - tim




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Aug 15 17:04:20 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:04:20 GMT
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu>
Message-ID: <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu>:
| I have a GUI to submit a background job and want the GUI to exit after
| the job is submitted to leave the actually big job run for a few days to
| compleletion. Could anyone give me a hint how to do this? right now the
| GUI stays but blocked by the background job.
| Thanks.

os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, cmd, argv) might work for you.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From deblnonospammy at theworld.com  Wed Aug 15 23:09:48 2001
From: deblnonospammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:09:48 GMT
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr> <mailman.997919305.11155.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7B39A0.6C09FBBE@theworld.com>

Hmmm, I am sure there is a simple explanation.  From the quickee
variation of you example below, I infer that the Python compiler uses a
dictionary for storing literals, so that only 1 copy is of each unique
literal is kept at compile time.  When the same string is built at
run-time in my example, the compiler has already done its job so it has
no way to know the symbol just built is already stored somewhere.  This
is pure guesswork, so could one of the gurus post the right answer? 
Thanks.


def f():
    a='+='
    b='+='
    print id(a),id(b),id('+=')
    b='+'+'='
    print id(b)

f()

result of a run is:
27432416 27432416 27432416
27367504



Skip Montanaro wrote:
<snip>
> Try this:
> 
>     >>> def f():
>     ...   a = "+="
>     ...   print a is a
>     ...   print a is "+="
>     ...
>     >>> f()
>     1
>     1
> 
> It is left as an exercise for the reader why the result of executing f()
> produces different results than the previous interactive session.  ;-)
> 
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 28 01:04:52 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:04:52 GMT
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu> <7xofp0yj7h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B8B1CC5.80908@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B8AD17D.2A17CB30@earthlink.net>

Will Ware wrote:
> 
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> > If you're running linux, you should get random data by reading
bytes
> > from /dev/urandom.
> 
> That would be better. But whenever I test things like this, I get
> compulsive and run it so many times that I exhaust the entropy pool,
> and then my read() of /dev/random just sits there. I'd be curious to
> know if you have any clever thoughts on replenishing the entropy
> pool quicker without losing much security.

Sledgehammer.

-- sorry-couldn't-resist-ly yrs,
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Thu Aug 30 22:35:53 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 02:35:53 GMT
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org> <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com> <mailman.999094845.12369.python-list@python.org> <3B8ED699.B342BBF0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <Xns910DE5F425785gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194>

Greg Ewing wrote: 

> Skip Montanaro wrote:
>> 
>> I might be reading this wrong, and I'm definitely taking you out of
>> context, but the whole idea of .so files is that their text sections
>> *are* shared among processes.  Their data sections will be
>> process-private. 
> 
> I think the difference lies in whether the parts of the
> code that need to be changed to fix external references
> are per-process or shared. On Unix they're per-process,
> so each instance of the shared library can have its
> own set of references back to the program which is
> using it. On Windows they're apparently shared.

Windows dlls haven't been shared since Win3.1. You can share
memory through a dll, but that's because Windows has calls
that let you allocate memory out of Window's process space.

There are lots of differences to .so's. The fix-ups are very
simplistic - an exported symbol is just a name, ordinal and
(relative) address. When you build a dll, you also get a lib. 
It's really a stub that loads the dll and does the fix ups.

The difference that is germain to this thread is that while
you can export symbols from an exe, you don't get a lib.
So to get to the symbols in the exe, you'd have to do it
yourself, which means a typedef and a GetProcAddress for each
symbol. Which makes the TCL stubs idea look very good.

There's a reason extension modules only need to export
one symbol, you know.

- Gordon


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug  3 14:54:28 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:54:28 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: rexec questions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032243530.1015-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

I tried the following in Python 2.1 and it raised suspicions
if rexec works correctly:

>>> import rexec
>>> rexec.RExec.ok_builtin_modules
('audioop', 'array', 'binascii', 'cmath', 'errno', 'imageop', 'marshal',
'math', 'md5', 'operator', 'parser', 'regex', 'pcre', 'rotor', 'select',
'strop', 'struct', 'time')
>>> rexec.RExec().r_exec("import popen2; print dir(popen2.os)")
['__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '_execvpe',
'_exists', '_get_exports_list', '_notfound', 'altsep', 'curdir',
'defpath', 'environ', 'error', 'execl', 'execle', 'execlp', 'execlpe',
'execvp', 'execvpe', 'fstat', 'getcwd', 'getegid', 'geteuid', 'getgid',
'getpid', 'getppid', 'getuid', 'linesep', 'listdir', 'lstat', 'makedirs',
'name', 'pardir', 'path', 'pathsep', 'readlink', 'removedirs', 'renames',
'sep', 'stat', 'sys', 'times', 'uname']

I thought that it could import ONLY rexec.RExec.ok_builtin_modules!
(Though, popen2.os is restricted correctly). Is rexec smarter these
days or does it restrict loading only dynamic (written in C) modules?

And also, is ther any way to restrict programs from contacting
hosts outside some list? If I understood correctly, networking
in rexec is all-or-nothing...

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 03, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "MACINTOSH - Most Apps Crash, If Not, Then Operating System Hangs" _/




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 17 02:00:00 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:00:00 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
In-Reply-To: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15228.45792.902951.765651@beluga.mojam.com>

Not really an IDE, but there is a kind of kewl GUI interpreter at

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust

It also comes with the nascent PythonCard:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi  Fri Aug 24 07:52:42 2001
From: vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:52:42 +0300
Subject: Distutils "not a regular file -- skipping"?!?
Message-ID: <yoxsnehd69h.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>

My setup.py is like this:

setup(name="myapp",
      version="0.4",
      packages=['mypkg'])
?
And when I do setup sdist, I get a bunch of

warning: sdist: 'mymod.py' not a regular file -- skipping

Where mymod.py is a file (as regular as anything) in the mypkg
directory.  The same happens for all the files in the mypkg
directory. If I specify '' in the packages, every file on "root" dir
is handled normally.

-- 
Ville Vainio - http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio - ICQ #115524762
 Wild geese have no intention to cast a reflection
 Water has no mind to assume their form


From brueckd at tbye.com  Thu Aug 16 14:29:29 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: socket + select
In-Reply-To: <997982318.29555.8.camel@spoc>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108161127360.18905-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 16 Aug 2001, Jo?o Alfredo wrote:
> Does anyone cold point me a example of socket programming using
> select/poll to handle several requests?!?

Hi Jo?o,
You might try the Medusa website:
http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html

It talks about using the asyncore/asynchat modules that are now a part of
the standard Python distribution.

-Dave





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 13:50:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:50:33 +0200
Subject: Confused about bound functions
References: <20xf7.12187$P15.6890321@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lm9t70j65@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Theodore D. Sternberg" <strnbrg at c532352-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com> wrote in
message news:20xf7.12187$P15.6890321 at news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> Why do I need to pass in a self argument, in the
> last line of the following program?

Because c.foo is a function, not a method.

> class C:
>     pass
>
> c = C()
> cmd = 'def foo(self): print "I am foo"'
> exec cmd in c.__dict__
>
> c.foo(c)
> ------------------------
>
> I'd like to be able to say simply "c.foo()".
> How can I arrange for that?

You need to exec cmd in C.__dict__ -- the
dictionary of c's class.  If you want to make
sure that other instances of C remain
unaffected, you need to arrange for c to
get its own class, e.g in today's Python:

def addmethod(obj, defstring):
    class Local(obj.__class__): pass
    obj.__class__ = Local
    exec defstring in Local.__dict__

There are alternatives based on module new.


Alex





From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug 12 19:10:26 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:10:26 +1000
Subject: [announce] Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.6
In-Reply-To: <9l0cbc$6vi5g$2@ID-89274.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.997240692.8944.python-list@python.org> <9l0cbc$6vi5g$2@ID-89274.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <0108130910260D.01694@ike>

On Friday 10 August 2001 20:17, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> In article <mailman.997240692.8944.python-list at python.org>,
>
> 	Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> writes:
> >             Roundup 0.2.6 - an issue tracking system
> >
> > Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with
> > command-line, web and e-mail interfaces.
>
> Any accessable system running somewhere?

I'm working on getting a demo set up on one of our machines here. It's a 
really low priority though.

We're using roundup internally, and have been for a few weeks now.


    Richard



From test at pacbell.net  Fri Aug 24 22:08:16 2001
From: test at pacbell.net (PMusselman)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:08:16 -0700
Subject: Question about Print Header Info***PLEASE HELP***
Message-ID: <9LDh7.2431$Rn.140430@news.pacbell.net>

I am new to programming in Python.  I have a question about print headr info
and batch printing

My boss has given me several CDs that need to be printed. He wants the
hardcopy to contain the file path location and file name in the header.  The
reason for this request is because there are files that contain the same
file name on the cd but in different subdirectories.  I have not found a
simple way to do this.  To make matters more diffcult the files are not text
or docs files.

My question is there a way to create a script in Python to automatically
print the file path/filename.  And is the a way to automate this process for
printing so I do not have to print each file automaically.  Any help would
be great.

Thanks
Pat Musselman




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 08:33:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:33:46 +0200
Subject: os.path.commonprefix inadequacies
References: <mailman.996614459.6734.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k8svh0ea8@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Dean & Yang Draayer" <draayer at surfglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.996614459.6734.python-list at python.org...
    ...
>     def commonprefix(L, empty=''):
>         if not L:
>             return empty
>         m = min(map(len, L))
>         if m == 0:
>             return empty
>         L0 = L[0]
>         for i in xrange(1, len(L)):
>             for j in xrange(m):
>                 if L[i][j] != L0[j]:
>                     m = j
>                     if m == 0:
>                         return empty
>                     break
>         return L0[:m]

What about a simpler, more concise expression:
    def commonprefix(seq, default_empty=''):
        try:
            leng = 0
            for tuple in zip(*seq):
                if tuple[1:] != tuple[:-1]: break
                leng += 1
            return seq[0][:leng]
        except TypeError: return default_empty

Probably not as fast as yours, but simpler, as
it exploits zip's behavior (truncation at
shortest argument sequence, raising TypeError
if the sequence of sequences is empty).  It
only needs default_empty when called with an
empty sequence of sequences, otherwise uses
the initial slice (perhaps an empty one) from
the first sequence as the null result, which
should automatically ensure the right type
(more or less:-).


Alex





From jwelby at waitrose.com  Thu Aug 16 00:56:55 2001
From: jwelby at waitrose.com (Julius Welby)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 05:56:55 +0100
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
References: <mailman.997923024.24854.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tnmkhd51goof0b@xo.supernews.co.uk>

That looks pretty comprehensive!

I thought I should repost a URL to my availability checker with e-mail alert
(alpha version), as it checks for the ability to do a URL open, and then
looks for a piece of arbitrary text to signify a failed attempt, so it is
on-topic.

http://www.outwardlynormal.com/python/igor.txt

I've only tested it for one recipient of the e-mail, but it works fine for
me on multiple sites (you define a list of sites to check).

I'll rewrite it at some point, but I hope this is of some use.



"Dr. David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
news:mailman.997923024.24854.python-list at python.org...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> with usual wisdom wrote:
> |So, slashdot doesn't give an error when I try to /GET that URL -- it
> |appears to give a perfectly valid page....
> |You may pepper your checking code with a zillion special cases
> |to try and identify the various "friendly error message pages"
> |returned by sites you're interested in -- and one day, of course,
> |your program will end up considering "not found" a perfectly
> |valid URL to a document with a title such as "404 File Not
> |Found" or something like that.
>
> Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This zillion special
> cases of 404-ish pages is something I use as an example in my
> forthcoming book _Text Processing in Python_ (a few more months until
> done).  Here's the code I present as an attempt at recognizing what only
> humans can:
>
>     #---------- error_page.py ----------#
>     import re, sys
>     page = sys.stdin.read()
>
>     # Mapping from patterns to probability contribution of pattern
>     err_pats = {r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?(404|403).*?ERROR.*?</TITLE>': 0.95,
>                 r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?ERROR.*?(404|403).*?</TITLE>': 0.95,
>                 r'(?is)<TITLE>ERROR</TITLE>': 0.30,
>                 r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?ERROR.*?</TITLE>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?is)<META .*?(404|403).*?ERROR.*?>': 0.80,
>                 r'(?is)<META .*?ERROR.*?(404|403).*?>': 0.80,
>                 r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?File Not Found.*?</TITLE>': 0.80,
>                 r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?Not Found.*?</TITLE>': 0.40,
>                 r'(?is)<BODY.*(404|403).*</BODY>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?is)<H1>.*?(404|403).*?</H1>': 0.15,
>                 r'(?is)<BODY.*not found.*</BODY>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?is)<H1>.*?not found.*?</H1>': 0.15,
>                 r'(?is)<BODY.*the requested URL.*</BODY>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?is)<BODY.*the page you requested.*</BODY>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?is)<BODY.*page.{1,50}unavailable.*</BODY>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?is)<BODY.*request.{1,50}unavailable.*</BODY>': 0.10,
>                 r'(?i)does not exist': 0.10,
>                }
>     err_prob = 0
>     for pat, prob in err_pats.items():
>         if err_prob > 0.9: break
>         if re.search(pat, page):
>             # print pat, prob
>             err_prob += prob
>
>     if err_prob > 0.90:   print 'Page is almost surely an error report'
>     elif err_prob > 0.75: print 'It is highly likely page is an error
report'
>     elif err_prob > 0.50: print 'Better-than-even odds page is error
report'
>     elif err_prob > 0.25: print 'Fair indication page is an error report'
>     else:                 print 'Page is probably real content'
>
> You could play with this to include urllib.urlopen() instead of just
> reading STDIN, or course.  The threshhold approach, IMO, does pretty
> well.  But nothing's perfect... in fact, I've found pages that I have a
> lot of trouble saying for sure whether they are real content or not
> using my own eyes.
>
> Yours, David...
>




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 12 23:14:49 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:14:49 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <004d01c1239f$e077bbc0$a9e1fea9@carol>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFOLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim, not surprised that this is the only part quoted <wink>]
> Guido isn't obsessed with Carnegie Mellon.  We have years of reports
> from many Python users about the real-life consequences of division
> semantics, and VPython is notable primarily because they cared so much
> they forked Python to change it.  Should Guido ignore that?  Of course
> not.

[Arthur Siegel]
> Alice forked Python on the case sensitivity issue.

Yes.

> Where is the evidence on the VPython site that they have forked
> Python on the div issue?  The docs specifically caution on the
> div semantics. Obviously unnecessary if they were using
> a patched Python.

I don't even know where the VPython site is.  Looking back at what I did
see, the closest I can find is Bruce Sherwood's prospective discussion about
why:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/idle-dev/2000-April/000138.html

and David Scherer's explanation of the patch he implemented to change
division:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/idle-dev/2000-April/000140.html

If they didn't fork after all, cool.

> So yes I was disturbed that Guido's original announcement
> of the PEP0238 acceptance was a few sentences long, *at least *
> one of which was wrong - the VPython fork bubbermeister.
>
> And I am disturbed to hear Tim Peters repeat it as fact.

My apologies.

> Worst case scenario we are talking about a student, warned
> of Python's behavior, not being careful to apply what he knew.
>
> Took him three hours to debug. Poor guy.
>
> I've fallen into every trap there is to fall into in learning
> Python.  Never thought to blame it on the language.
> Kind of thought the language was doing exactly what
> the documentation says it would do, and *I* did something
> wrong.  The finding it, and fixing it - was invaluable.
>
> But you all know all this.
>
> I can't help feeling half the time that I am up against an
> entire community playing dumb.
>
> Tim responds to everything except my central point.  That
> there is an excellent basis to assert that if the universe
> of Python was VPython, the change makes little sense. ...

I'll spell it out:  I don't care about VPython.  Never did.  That's
something you go on about, pretty much all by yourself.  If the rest of the
community doesn't join you, the obvious reason isn't that they're playing
dumb, but that they don't care about VPython either.

While Alice and VPython played some brief roles in focusing attention on the
existence of "a problem" here, once the problem was appreciated it gained a
life of its own, quite independent of who first made a big stink about it.
If Carnegie Mellon fell into a black hole tomorrow, taking Alice and VPython
with it forever, it wouldn't affect the motivation for PEP 238 at all.

It's not about VPython, although the VPython folks have their own reasons
for wanting this.  It doesn't matter to me either whether their analysis is
right or wrong for VPython, only whether Guido's analysis is right for
Python.  I agree with his reasoning wholeheartedly (read the PEP).  I'm not
sure that, were I him, I would actually make the change, though:  despite
that "it's right", it's a painful change all around.  But it's not about
VPython regardless.  Neither is it visibly about CP4E in any larger sense.
It's about the language's numeric rules making sense (read the PEP).




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:36:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:36:46 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <7xzo90pw17.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lhasm11sek@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xzo90pw17.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> Xrange is apparently a primitive type, which sounds like a big kludge.

"primitive"?  I'd call it a middling-kludge.

> Maybe in Python 2.2 they can make it into an iterator.  That would be
> the right way to deal with this problem.

Yep, but iterators weren't around when xrange was introduced.  The
"do the right thing" (MIT approach, big-design-up-front approach --
see Gabriel's article as mentioned in my last post) would of course
have been to stop the world until iterators were designed -- the "worse
is better" (NJ approach, just-in-time-design approach, Python's
approach) is incremental and adaptive.  xrange started out VERY
ambitious -- used to do all sort of things to mimic the behavior of
the list it 'represented'.  Turns out it's basically only used for the
purpose of iterating -- so it was simplified by removing most of
its complications, and there may be iterators to take its place now.


Alex





From eberkain at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 30 22:37:48 2001
From: eberkain at earthlink.net (eber kain)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 19:37:48 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b@posting.google.com> <x0cj7.71700$54.3813230@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <Xns910DA9411E997andytoddspamfreeyaho@203.109.250.24>
Message-ID: <b5f84cf8.0108301837.36768171@posting.google.com>

andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd) wrote in message news:<Xns910DA9411E997andytoddspamfreeyaho at 203.109.250.24>...
> Steve challenged, I had to respond ;-)
> 
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
> <x0cj7.71700$54.3813230 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>: 
> 
> >"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b at posting.google.com...
> >> When i run this code
> >>
> >> name= Create('Name')
> >> file= open('%s.btv' % name, "w")
> >>
> >> i end up with a file name that has a set of ' ' around the name like
> >> so 
> >>
> >> 'Name'.btv
> >>
> >> How can i fix this?
>  
> >>>> name = Create('Name')
> >Traceback (innermost last):
> >  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> >NameError: There is no variable named 'Create'
> >
> >I think we need a little more context before we can be of much help,
> >despite this newsgroup's famous psychic debugging abilities. That is,
> >unless someone out there wants to prove me wrong ...
> 
> My lack of pyschic ability lead me to;
> >>> filename1='''Name'''
> >>> print '%s.btv' % filename1
> Name.btv
> 
> So that obviously works ... hmmm
> Then I tried;
> >>> filename2="'Name'"
> >>> print '%s.btv' % filename2
> 'Name'.btv
> 
> Bingo! This is more than likely causing your problem. Note the combination 
> of double and single quotes. They are guaranteed to trip up the unwary.
> 
> Obviously I skipped
> >>> filename0='Name'
>  because I new that would give us;
> >>> print '%s.btv' % filename0
> Name.btv
> 
> The moral of the story? Try to avoid encoding quotation marks in you 
> character strings at all costs. If you do need to preserve them, be very, 
> very careful.
> 
> For what its worth my rule of thumb is;
> 
> Use ' for ordinary characters,
> Use " if you *must* include quotation marks within the string (then watch 
> out when evaluating these strings)
> 
> Oh, and test like buggery as well ;-)
> 
> If you want the total lowdown on string literals (for some reason I only 
> have the 2.0.1 reference but I don't believe it has changed), look in the 
> manual;
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.0.1/ref/strings.html
> 
> >
> >About all I can tell you is that you are putting quotes in somewhere
> >they aren't required, but you'd probably wirked that out.
> >
> >Eber, please post the whole program, or if it's too long (say, > 100
> >lines) or a secret then write a shorter program to demonstrate the bug
> >and post that.
> 
> Here, here. Although, hopefully the miniscule examples above will lead you 
> to solve your problem.
> 
> >
> >regards
> > Steve
> >--
> >http://www.holdenweb.com/
> >
> 
> Regards,
> Andy

Ok, here is the top part of my code, its working up to 400 lines, so just the top.

This is being used in blender, a freeware 3d modeling tool.







import Blender
from Blender import NMesh
from Blender.Draw import *
from Blender.BGL import *

# General

name= Create('Name')
shortname= Create('Short Name')
type= Create(1)


def export():
	file= open('%s.btv' % name,"w")
	#	name and short name
	file.write("%s\n" % name)
	file.write("%s\n" % shortname)
	
	#	charcteristics
	file.write("%s " % type)
............


From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 12:46:27 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:46:27 +0200
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Reading a file two different ways...from ENGSOL
References: <3b6b720d.12189167@news.onemain.com> <9kn72f$pr0$2@news.btv.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <1108469.KtgW7RDIVb@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Peter Mayne <Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com> schrub:
[...]
>> readfile("c:\\python21\\tags\\cauxd.tex")
> 
> Windows is perfectly happy to accept "/" as a legal path separator, so
[...] 
> readfile("c:/python21/tags/cauxd.tex")
> 
> is more readable, and saves a comment 8-).

There's another way: raw strings

readfile(r"c:\python21\tags\cauxd.tex")

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From mac4 at chaos.theory.org  Thu Aug 16 01:23:00 2001
From: mac4 at chaos.theory.org (mac4 at chaos.theory.org)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 05:23:00 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b7b58b4$0$317$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
> I just started playing with python and haven't been able to figure
> out the following things from the docs I've found:
> 
> 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> real and imaginary parts separately?  I guess I could say
>   x = (a + a.conjugate())/2
>   y = (a - a.conjugate())/2
> but I can't take this language seriously if that's what the designers 
>intended.

Here is a tip. The first thing to do what you are curious about an 
object is use the dir method.

>>> c = 3+4j
>>> dir(c)
['conjugate', 'imag', 'real']
>>> c.real
3.0
>>> c.imag
4.0
>>> c.conjugate
<built-in method conjugate of complex object at 0x100aebe8>

> 
> 2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
>   I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
>     is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>     is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>     is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>     is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type

>>> from type import *
>>> i = 100
>>> type(i) == IntType
1
>>> s = "string"
>>> type(s) == IntType
0

The type module has all sorts of types in it.  If you want to check if
an object is of a certain type, use the isinstance method.

> 
> 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
>   branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
>   implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
>   Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.
> 
I dunno :)

Neil Macneale

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 16:54:08 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:54:08 +0200
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9lc3dt01v2k@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:tnivoil464c658 at corp.supernews.com...
> Hi to the most esteemed Python People
> I work as a programmer and we are working on a web project.  I am pushing
> for Python.  The web project calls for logging into an Oracle database,
> uploading and downloading files depending on the login information,
> processing uploaded files, and a host of million other things.  I had

If the connection to the database takes up a substantial fraction of
the CGI's working time, then a true CGI (which runs a new process
on every page-hit) may show bad performance.  However, even in
this case there are CGI-like alternatives, depending on what
webserver you're using (e.g., Xitami supports the extremely
simple and powerful LRWP protocol -- not far from a CGI except
that the same process can be reused for up to N hits at your
choice rather than for only one).

> already done the basic functionality all in CGI using Python.  Someone
else
> here is calling for the use of JSP.  So, the question being asked here:
Why
> do I want to use Python and NOT JSP?  I simply can not just say:  Well, it
> is an issue of bias, and I know Python and like it, and can stand neither
> JAVA, nor JSP although I do not know anything about JSP.

You can claim that Python offers better productivity than Java.
As an authority, you could pick Bruce Eckel, best-selling author
of "Thinking in Java": his new "Thinking in Patterns" book has a
chapter on using Python *with* Java (you can freely download
the book, in the current 'beta' form, from his site on the web --
sorry, no URL at hand now), and you can download from URL
ftp://www.mindview.net/pub/eckel/LovePython.zip you can
download his "why I love Python" presentation (as a Microsoft
Powerpoint file) where he claims 5-10 times higher productivity
for Python, and gives several good reasons why.


> Did anyone here deal with JSP in addition to Python?  If yes, how could
you
> convince a skeptical management to use Python and not JSP?

Maybe I could convince them to call in Eckel as a consultant to
give his advice -- he IS an authority after all:-).

> We use an IPlanet web server running on Sun Solaris by the way.

Unfortunately I know nothing about IPlanet.  Goggle searching
for 'iplanet python' gives over 2000 hits, but none of the first
few pages seem to refer to Python integration with iplanet...

However, if the _deployment_ needs to be JSP, you still
have an ace in the hole: it's called Jython.  As long as you're
running a good updated Java Virtual Machine, those .class and
.jar "100% Pure Java" files it's running *NEED NOT* have been
produced by a Java compiler.  The Jython compiler is 100%
Pure Java and a faithful implementation of Python 2.0 (2.1 is
still in alpha test for Jython, I think, so you may not want to
base a product on that).  You use exactly the same libraries as
you would in Java (plus a few from Python specifically for
Jython use -- mostly those which are coded in Pure Python,
few C-coded Python things have been ported to Java yet, I
think), so you do have to learn the libraries, but the
_language_ *IS* Python.  You'll get most of Python's advantage
in terms of programmer productivity (maybe slightly less than
5-10 times as you do have to deal with Java's slowness and
its huge rambling libraries, but surely, say, 3-4 times IS quite
achievable when the team's up to speed), and basically the
same deployment situation as with Java.

Classic Python is better than Jython in many ways (faster,
typically more up-to-date -- e.g., now CPython 2.2 is in
early alpha and Jython is in late alpha for 2.1), but Jython
has its own advantages -- chiefly deployability and access
(seamless -- you don't have to write adapters) to the huge
Java libraries and the widespread frameworks for Java.  I
would suggest that familiarity with both is a good thing...


Alex





From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 04:17:28 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 01:17:28 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <915a998f.0108220858.3f062acd@posting.google.com> <pPXg7.126372$EP6.34910440@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0108230017.10dbec68@posting.google.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> I presume you are proposing a default "def __call__(self): return
> self" for all objects.

Yes, that's what I was suggesting.

> Would it be useful? or would it encourage bad programming?, that is
> the question.

I think it's useful being able to hide whether a property of an object
should be obtained via simple attribute access or via a method call.
The PEP addresses this with its proposal for getters/setters, so that
attribute access can trigger a method call. I was exploring going the
other way - having it so that you could always employ a method call.
But there may well be problems with that approach.

Just-thinking-out-loud-ly,

Hamish Lawson


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 17:19:14 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:19:14 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <thiiotcmiu3bg4pf3bbcd6k00q1k9gv2gm@4ax.com> <mailman.998857940.30409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rjpiot8fmtndj50bps6qljvktf6pecv21h@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:30:20 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998857940.30409.python-list at python.org>:

:On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:
:
:> Notice that you can append an optional 'l' to the mode, if your
:> installation supports locking.
:>
:> Here is an interactive session:
:>
:> Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
:> [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
:> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
:> >>> import dbhash
:> >>> db = dbhash.open('rec', 'rl')
:> Traceback (most recent call last):
:>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
:>   File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
:>     return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
:> bsddb.error: locking not supported on this platform
:> >>>

:
:Hmmm...
:
:The only thing I can think of is to get a copy of libdb.dll 3.3.1 from
:somewhere 

libdb.dll 3.3.1 for what...SleepyCat? No, I don't want to install
another version on top of the system version. I am going to stick with
the default system install for the bsddb. (I've already had plenty of
fun installing my own version of Python instead of using the system
default of 1.5.2.)

bsddb works fine on this system, if I don't try to do any file locking:

Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dbhash
>>> db = dbhash.open('rec', 'r')
>>> for key in db.keys():
...     print key
...
num
name
age
>>> db.close()
>>>

You will notice that SleepyCat has three versions:
http://sleepycat.com/products.html

and I believe our system just has the lowest of these installed.

: (I checked Google and couldn't find it, and I left my copy of
:VC++ 6.0 in my other pants...), 

LOL. Heh, now I'm getting confused. VC++ isn't going to help me with
using bsddb on my webhost. That's a Linux machine.

What I want is to write a script that I can run on my webhost (Linux)
and also on my home machine (Win98) for testing/development.

Anyhow, I think I've got things figured out now.

:put it in your local directory, and try again.
:DLLs, like Python modules, check the current directory before trying the other
:standard directories.

Thanks,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From just at letterror.com  Tue Aug  7 16:36:44 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 22:36:44 +0200
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>

Carel Fellinger wrote:

> Not paying attention to the headers, I first replied to c.l.py.a to
> have my posting sent of to some moderator. So let me retry in case the
> other doesn't make it into c.l.py.
> 
> Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:
> ...
> > As usual I'm writing up an explanation of the changes in 2.2:
> >       http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/
> 
> Thanks for making such nice overviews, I always check them out to see
> how beatifull the next Python is going to be.
> 
> But on this explanatory page I was a bit surprised in your treatment of
> the iter protocol regarding dictionaries. It lumbed together both uses
> of in, the __contains__() version and the next() one.  The fact that
> "key in dict" is now equivalent to "dict.has_key(key)" has nothing to
> do with the iterability of dicts, at least that's what I've understood
> sofar.

But there has always been a nice symmetry between "if x in y" and
"for x in y", so it is much nicer to have "if key in dict" if you
*also* have "for key in dict". While the implementations have indeed
little in common, I think it's a little unfair to say they have
nothing to do with each other.

Just


From tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk  Sun Aug  5 12:55:31 2001
From: tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk (Tony McDonald)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 16:55:31 GMT
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
References: <tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tony.mcdonald-7BEEA4.17550905082001@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

In article <tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>, 
Tony McDonald <tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> This is on an Enterprise 3500 - UltraSparc at 400MHz (ie a big box)
> 
> % uname -a
> SunOS caduceus-temp 5.8 Generic_108528-07 sun4u sparc 
> SUNW,Ultra-Enterprise
> % file /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/local/bin/python:  ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1, 
> dynamically linked, not stripped
> % python
> Python 2.1 (#3, Jul 18 2001, 22:05:54) 
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on sunos5
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> from test import pystone
> >>> pystone.main()
> Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.38
> This machine benchmarks at 4201.68 pystones/second
> 

Sorry, I should have mentioned the compiler options I used, basically 
it's

gcc -fPIC -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes

tone


From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Aug 16 01:03:25 2001
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:03:25 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
References: <mailman.997923024.24854.python-list@python.org> <tnmkhd51goof0b@xo.supernews.co.uk>
Message-ID: <eppstein-D1ABF4.22032515082001@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <tnmkhd51goof0b at xo.supernews.co.uk>,
 "Julius Welby" <jwelby at waitrose.com> wrote:

> > Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This zillion special
> > cases of 404-ish pages is something I use as an example in my
> > forthcoming book _Text Processing in Python_ (a few more months until
> > done).  Here's the code I present as an attempt at recognizing what only
> > humans can:

Humans can't usually see the http response line with the actual 404 number 
in it in place of the 200 indicating an ok page, but machines can -- why 
don't you use that?
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 27 13:29:44 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 10:29:44 -0700
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante at grante.comtrol.com>,
Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
>I didn't realize we were discussing 1.5.2.  I assume people are
>using a fairly recent version unless they specify otherwise.
>Under 2.1, spawnv is available for Unix. I don't remember if it
>was in 2.0.

Until Red Hat et al upgrade the default installation, I assume there's a
good chance questions refer to 1.5.2.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From sa at bayt.net  Tue Aug  7 06:22:46 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 03:22:46 -0700
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <gcuumtg94g0htmc4okr8clolsl87uhnv7u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108070222.7134a912@posting.google.com>

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message news:<gcuumtg94g0htmc4okr8clolsl87uhnv7u at 4ax.com>...

> One. Get _Python Essential Reference_. It has the best guide to extending
> and embedding in Python that I've ever seen.

Done.

> Two. If you're fizzling around with Cygwin and GNU and can't figure it out,
> please take that to the appropriate newsgroups.

Given that the discussion is directly concerned with building *python*
extensions, I think this is an appropriate topic for this newsgroup.
Nevertheless, I am now much less interested in getting the cygwin
version to work now that I've successfully compiled a basic extension
on win32.
 
> Three. You've claimed to be new to C. You're going to have to learn quite
> a bit about C, first. The Python documentation does not take on the task of
> teaching C while it explains the extension mechanisms.

True. There's a lot to absorb in C. I hear pointers are quite
scary....

cheers,

Shakeeb


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 29 12:59:38 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:59:38 +0200
Subject: Python for XML processing (newbie)
References: <mailman.999065084.24950.python-list@python.org> <3B8CF143.787831D0@sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <1729000.VdNmn5OnKV@lunix.schabi.de>

Garry Hodgson <garry at sage.att.com> schrub:

> Karthik Gurumurthy wrote:
> 
>> i have written a few xml parsing stuff using python's xml library.
>> I c'd get things done easily.
>> I w'd greatly appreciate it if someone c'd point out the difference
>> between using say a
>> java parser like xerces and the one we have in the python library.
>> any advantages?? etc?
> 
> the advantage to using the python library is that you don't
> have to use java.

ROTFL!

But I don't think that's just the answer he wanted to hear...

And: With Jython, you can easily use xerxes without programming in java 
:-)

-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:14:58 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:14:58 +0200
Subject: Please Help:   xml.parsers.expat question
References: <hns2ntgvslq3uouagbpqolik9q7h1oj6df@4ax.com> <1544816.6Veaoefvbu@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <j4d762dhst.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> writes:

> for me (using Jython 2.1a1 on java1.3.1 (JIT: null)), the following 
> gives no error:
> 
> from xml.parsers import expat

Are you saying you have a pyexpat in Jython? That's hard to believe...

Regards,
Martin


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Aug 19 11:53:54 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 18:53:54 +0300
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kun14wavvx.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8 at posting.google.com>,
joost_jacob at hotmail.com (J.Jacob) writes:

| Hello,
| When testing exceptions i found something, maybe a bug ?
| I wonder if the behavior is intentionally.

yes, this is how the python object system works. instance
attributes are searched before class attributes. (the exception value
is an instance of the exception class).

  -- erno


From m-turk at nwu.edu  Tue Aug 21 12:00:06 2001
From: m-turk at nwu.edu (Matthew Turk)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:00:06 GMT
Subject: CygWin .pyd oddities
Message-ID: <slrn9o51i7.ah.m-turk@dhcp101054.res-hall.nwu.edu>


Hi there.  I've been working on converting some of the more
math-intensive operations to C from a python script; and after some
trial and error (err, a LOT of trial and error) I have been able to
make a callable extension using CygWin.

I can use it fairly easily under Windows (there was a bit of a problem with the
feof() macro apparantly not working, so I added a || to the statement
to check for a char==-1) but now for some reason it has been taking
issue with my memory management.

I'm using a GPL'ed block allocater called blalloc which worked
*perfectly* under cygwin.  Upon transferring to W95, however, as near
as I can trace it the extension crashes in a free() statement that I
don't think it should.  (It doesn't crash immediately; not until near
the end of the program does it go down in flames.)

All of this is pretty irrelevant (unless there's a malloc() difference
I ought to know about!) - I would like to know if there's a method of
debugging a C extension in python.

Thanks!




mjt
--------------------------------------------------
Matthew J. Turk <m-turk at nwu.edu>      ICQ: 3856787
"Music is the Best." - FZ       www.dailyvault.com


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 18:24:30 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:24:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How does Python (v2.1.1) handle parameter passing? By value or
 by reference?
In-Reply-To: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221820170.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Rob van Wees wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As a newbie to Python, I'm having trouble finding out how the interpreter
> handles parameters that are passed to functions. Sometimes they seem to be
> handled as values and sometimes as references.
>
> The Python documentation does not seem to answer my question. Could any of
> you help me?
>
> Below is a copy of an IDLE session to find out what Python does with
> parameters. It shows the different behaviors of the interpreter. I defined 3
> functions that print and then change the parameters to see the effects on x
> and y. The results seem weird to me. Anyone knows what is happening here?
>
> TIA,
>
> Rob.

If you look very closely, it appears that it passes them by object reference.
I've changed your variable names for clarity.

> --------------------------------------- IDLE session
> below ---------------------------------------
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
> >>> def f1(x,y):
>                 print x, " - ", y
>                 x = x + 2
>                 y = y - 2
>
> >>> def f2(x, y):
>             print x, " - ", y
>             x.append(2)
>             y.append(-2)
>
>
> >>> def f3(x,y):
>             print x, " - ", y
>             x = [1,2,3,4]
>             y = [4,3,2,1]
>
> >>> a = 1
> >>> b = 2
> >>> f1(a,b)
> 1  -  2
> >>> print a, " - ", b
> 1  -  2

x and y are assigned new values, so nothing happens out here.

> >>> a = [1]
> >>> b = [2]
> >>> f2(a,b)
> [1]  -  [2]
> >>> print a, " - ", b
> [1, 2]  -  [2, -2]

Methods of x and y are called that change their value, so they change out here
too.

> >>> f3(a,b)
> [1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
> >>> print a, " - ", b
> [1, 2]  -  [2, -2]

x and y are assigned new values, so nothing happens out here.

HTH

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>






From surial at crosswinds.net  Fri Aug 10 20:06:41 2001
From: surial at crosswinds.net (Surial)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 02:06:41 +0200
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
Message-ID: <MPG.15de957b96d43b0e989691@rider>

In java, you have 2 features which AFAIK are not available in Python, 
which I always assumed to be required for sandboxing:

'final':

If you can't mark things as final, you can subclass a class, pass it
to an 'internal' method, and so trick internal classes is giving
you sensitive information. Imagine, if you could take java's
String class and subclass it.

(you can't; the entire string class
is marked 'final'). You can then make a mutable subclass of
String (java's String is immutable, meaning that after construction
of a String object it cannot change. there is no such thing as
string.setValue("new value"). You'll have to make a new string
if you want to do that.)

So, you pass an instance of your special MutableString to some kind
of internal method that now takes this string and makes sure it's
valid. Since you (the sandboxed application) still have the same
object reference, and it's actually a mutable string, you can now
change the string and the internal method will not be aware of it,
and thus will not perform a validity check.

'private':

take the entire above argument  and adapt it to the fact that
if nothing is truly private, I can change things anyway.
Python's local system (__foobar) actually translates
to __classname_foobar (or so I've read in the python
tutorial), so Joe 'sandboxed' Application can still access
anything.



At least for the private issue I can understand a special
sandboxing application that will disable access to anything
fitting the regexp __.+_.+, but that won't help for
the 'final' issue.



How are these points addressed in RExec? (Python's
sandboxing environment, as I've read).


-- Reinier.



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 30 21:52:32 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:52:32 +1200
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com> <cp3d6ap71x.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <8a12e538.0108301457.706645ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8EEDE0.56BB5C70@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Russell Turpin wrote:
> 
> OK, I think I'm grokking it. In future Python, every derived
> type will descend from some ur-type,

Hey, what a cool word! I suggest we adopt it as
an official Python technical term.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug  8 20:02:58 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:02:58 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <mailman.997287913.11388.python-list@python.org> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081234090.1093-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <slrn9n3ki3.206.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:47:19 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>>
>>     Adam> Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links
>>     Adam> to (or at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that
>>     Adam> have a Python environment.
>>
>> Hmmm...  I didn't see anything like that in your first note.  Barry Warsaw
> 
> Yes, I was a jerk.  I shouldn't have done that, I'm sorry!
> 
>> is the python-mode for Emacs author/maintainer.  There is a page on the
>> python.org website for Python & Emacs:
>>
>>     http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/
> 
> That site, as far as I can tell, doesn't have much info on the "big
> picture".  But I got a reply from Alexandre Fayolle that filled me in, I
> see why there is a whole section about the python-mode, but why is there
> a section about other Emacs features?  That is a Python web-site,
> promoting Emacs, which I don't mind much, but it is strange...
> 
>> It does have some links to Python support in other editors (Alpha and JED at
>> least).  If you have a URL for vi+Python I'm sure Barry would be happy to
>> add it to that page.  I suspect that eventually the site will get redone
>> pretty completely using Zope, at which perhaps this section of the website
>> will be generalized to something like "Text Editor Support for Python".
> 
> The "Text Editor Support for Python" idea sounds cool, I want anyone
> that edits Python code to have a resource that will show if there is a
> Python environment for their editor of choice.  As for the URL for
> Vim+Python, What I was talking about is builtin if it is Python code.  I
> am currently working on a Vim script that will do just as much as
> Emacs's python mode, but where are the specs for it?  I can't parse
> Emacs Lisp, and I don't use Emacs, so is there a URL for the specs?
> 
> Sorry, again!

If you finish that script, please post it here.. I for one would love to have
something like that.
> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug  2 01:37:31 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 05:37:31 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <mailman.996258542.15795.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4u16rx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996270412.11895.python-list@python.org> <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996616382.9383.python-list@python.org> <cpsnfcxwrw.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996682622.19966.python-list@python.org> <slrn.pl.9mgfg4.hch.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <gyY97.18908$WD1.1059910@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9mhpoq.nau.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:18:03 -0400, Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> pisze:

> What you seem to be requesting is that
> 
>     class <op> class => tuple_of_classes
>     class <op> tuple_of_classes => tuple_of_classes
>     tuple_of_classes <op> class => tuple_of_classes

Not tuple_of_classes but an object which behaves like union of these
classes for the purposes of testing instances.

> since in that case the tuple's __contains__ method will return the truth
> value you require.

It wouldn't. "x in tuple" doesn't check whether any element of the
tuple contains x, but whether any element is equal to x.

> The current syntax for multiple exception types surely means there's
> and implicit "exception in tuple" test?

No. For tuples it does this:
    for x in obj:
        if isinstance(exc, x):
            matches = 1
            break
    else:
        matches = 0
For classes it does this:
    matches isinstance(exc, obj)
It treats tuples and classes differently.

OTOH in the syntax I shown the test is performed polymorphically,
the object given in the except clause simply chooses how to do it
by providing its __contains__ (or rather tp_whatever slot).

It would imply that
    try:
        i = some_integer
        raise i
    except [1, 2]:
        do_this
    except [3, 4]:
        do_that
    except int:
        otherwise
would work, and using single numbers in except clauses wouldn't,
and if [] here are not considered too ugly it opens the door for
a "case" construct.

The current tuple syntax would mean a different thing after the
transition period when it's still special-cased, so I'm not convinced
that it's worth the trouble at all.

What I am convinced is that current rules for raise and except are
too complicated. I saw them written and I didn't remember them,
and it's not something which can be guessed.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From toflatpy2 at oaktown.org  Thu Aug 30 19:12:28 2001
From: toflatpy2 at oaktown.org (toflat)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 16:12:28 -0700
Subject: Extreme newbie.. looking for a push in the right direction. Need to find text in a file and then display
References: <48dbc3f6.0108272358.19747602@posting.google.com> <9mfm9f065b@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <48dbc3f6.0108301512.4cceb03f@posting.google.com>

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the kind words and assistance. 

Your message helped a lot. It's funny, I wasn't able to get it working
at first, but when I combined your code with some of the code from the
other person who responded, bing bang boom! it works! I still need to
work some things out, but that's fine. I'm getting so much more Python
education from this little exercise than I could ever have imagined.

And it's fun to boot!

Thanks again!

-T


From warkid at storm.ru  Fri Aug 17 06:57:17 2001
From: warkid at storm.ru (Kerim Borchaev)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:57:17 +0400
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
In-Reply-To: <3B7C169E.22502.19E5BF84@localhost>
References: <3B7C169E.22502.19E5BF84@localhost>
Message-ID: <19623.010817@storm.ru>

JW>         My question to you all is this:  Do you have any suggestions on
JW> how to deal with learning to use unit testing in this way,
Here they know how to do unit testing ( or better TestFirstDesign ):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming 

Wiki also is worth a look : http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?UnitTestTutorial and
other pages.

JW>  or examples of setting up games with this kind of unit testing,
JW> or GUI programs?
http://users.vnet.net/wwake/xp/xp0001/index.shtml
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GuiTesting


And an example of using PyUnit is in attach. ( I'm really a newbie to
python so don't take it as a coding style reference. )

Best regards,
 Kerim                            mailto:warkid at storm.ru

I really enjoy work I can sit and watch it for hours.
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: checkListCorrupted.py
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010817/1d55189c/attachment.ksh>

From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Wed Aug 22 09:42:29 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:42:29 -0500
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
References: <D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3b7ee623$0$318$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net> <cppu9ocweq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <to7e1fmr5s23ae@corp.supernews.com>

PythonWin (activestate Python) includes Tcl/Tk libs.  I do not know about
IDLE.
But it also installs the Python ActiveX Scripting engine which allows Python
to be used in ASP pages as a scripting language.
Maan

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cppu9ocweq.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
> "Volucris" <volucris at hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > ActivePython is based on Python, so everything in the standard Python
distro
> > (AFAIK) is in ActivePython. But also, including Pythonwin, COM stuff,
the
> > docs in Windows help format, and other stuff that I can't remember.
>
> Actually, ActivePython is an extended subset of the standard
> distribution -- it doesn't include IDLE and the Tcl/Tk libraries
> necessary for Tkinter support.  IDLE is a pretty good alternative to
> Pythonwin.
>
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)




From James_Althoff at i2.com  Tue Aug 14 18:23:22 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:23:22 -0700
Subject: __dynamic__ attribute
Message-ID: <OFE7CD3DA3.C1A7F83A-ON88256AA8.00785883@i2.com>

Given that  __dynamic__ will be part of Python in 2.2 . . .

Is it worth considering the possibility of making it more granular (somehow
controlling separately the modification of attribute values versus the
addition or deletion of attributes, perhaps)?  Currently it controls the
changing of a class object in all ways (if set to 1 it makes the class
object immutable).  It seems to me there is a significant difference in
general usage between:

>>> class A(object):
...   __dynamic__ = 1
...   count = 0
...   def incr(myclass): myclass.count += 1
...   incr = classmethod(incr)
...
>>> A.count
0
>>> A.incr()
>>> A.count
1
>>>

which is a pretty common idiom in Java and C++ and other more dynamic
things like adding/deleting attributes (data and methods) on the fly.

Jim





From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  1 15:31:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:31:50 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEENELCAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> Right.  Guido's forte is doing the right thing, as opposed to
> rationalizing WHY it's right.  I'd rather have the right
> thing, with weak rationale, than a botch that's rationalized
> to perfection (which is what would happen if _I_ were the
> BDFL, perish the thought).

[Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com]
> This is where I started.  Not sure it is where I end up.
>
> Read his last post on the Changing the Division Operator
> thread.
>
> He takes zero responsibility.

Regardless of what you got out of what you read, in reality Guido takes full
responsibility for every Python decision.  That comes with being BDFL.
Something that also comes with being BDFL is taking responsibility for
repairing design errors, and if you think Guido has been *enjoying* this
flamefest, you're nuts.  Repairing mistakes is difficult under the best of
conditions.

> Its all a matter of correcting Tim's bad design advice (was that
> actually in a thread ?, I only saw reference to it), Moshe's bad PEP,
> misreprentations of his own clear words and intentions, usenet folk,
> etc.

They're all factors.  I don't actually remember giving "Tim's bad design
advice" in this case <wink>, but I believe him when he said it was my idea
for ints to auto-coerce to floats.  If Guido were to claim he didn't push
back on that at all, I'd believe that too -- it was a decade ago, and I may
well have been the only Python user in the world making significant use of
floats at the time!

This all occurred in email before comp.lang.python existed, and indeed
before there was even a Python mailing list.  Guido and I had both used ABC
(he was an ABC implementer, and I an end user), and agreed early on that
ABC's use of rationals hadn't worked out at all in practice.  The only other
realistic choice at the time (Python was a one-man spare-time effort then)
for non-integer values was C doubles.  So it was a "double or nothing" kind
of bet <wink>.  *Given* that, while I'm not generally a fan of
auto-coercion, stuff like

    x = i*y + j*z  # i and j int, y and z float

is too common and harmless in fp apps to endure having to explicitly float
the ints all the time, so a general "ints auto-coerce to floats" rule was
natural.  I still don't regret that.  It should not have been hard to see
that

    x = y / z

could become a problem if "/" mapped to non-float division for ints, but it
didn't occur to either of us at the time.

One change made then nobody has noticed:  Python originally used
1's-complement notation for unbounded longs, which made a conceptual mess
out of switching between short (2's-comp) and long (1's-comp) ints in
bit-fiddling contexts.  IIRC, we argued more about that than about all other
numeric issues combined.

Anyway, having given up early on rationals, what 2/3 should return was "a
problem".  It didn't get much thought on my end, and I don't think on
Guido's either -- we were both full-time C programmers at the time (plus
some Fortran for me, as I was implementing Fortran compilers at the time and
had to test them <wink>), and "what the heck, return an int" is about all I
recall.  We argued much more about what -2/3 should return, as it "was
obvious" to me that i%j returning a value with the sign of j was much more
useful in real life than having it return a value with the sign of i, and
preserving the identity

    (i/j)*j + i%j == i

then implied i/j should return the floor.  Guido agreed "in theory" but was
reluctant to-- having just decided to copy C on 2/3 --break with the Fortran
and *most* C implementations' -2/3 == 0 result.  Deciding to switch longs
from 1's-comp to 2's-comp notation had a serendipitous influence, as under
the latter the identity

    i / 2**j == i >> j  # i long; j >= 0

only holds if int division returns the floor.  That, and some real-life
examples of how floor division simplified apps slinging modular arithmetic,
settled that issue, and I'm sure neither of us regrets that one either.

The division decision was a poor one, though!  While it's Guido's
responsibility for accepting it in the end, you seem a lot more interested
in *blaming* someone.  Then I should get about half the blame.  Blame away,
but I owned up to this years ago (so did Guido, you know), and public
displays of wailing and teeth-gnashing get old very fast <wink>.  Let's move
on.

> Kind of hopeless.

I don't know what you want, Arthur.  Guido doesn't actually have a time
machine, and he's not actually a dictator, and the world isn't actually
perfect in every respect, and Guido's not actually gutless enough to let a
design error stand forever just to avoid getting flamed.

> I've stopped needing to like him.

What does affection have to do with any of this?

guido-loves-me-this-i-know-
    for-the-ref-man-tells-me-so-
    little-ones-to-him-belong-
    they-are-weak-but-he-is-strong-ly y'rs  - tim




From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Aug 21 06:04:09 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:04:09 +0200
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7x66bhby1r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B823219.E393F50C@stroeder.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Note that nothing requires you to use a commercial CA--you can always
> sign your own keys and convince your friends to configure their
> browsers to trust your key signatures, just like PGP.

http://www.openssl.org
http://www.pyca.de (somewhat outdated)

I'd also suggest to read:
http://home.xcert.com/~marcnarc/PKI/thesis/

Ciao, Michael.


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 18:18:45 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:18:45 +0100
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o0eq5.1i3.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:01:45 +0200, Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>phil hunt wrote:
>> 
>> On 19 Aug 2001 00:34:15 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>> >philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
>> >> Ones you find interesting.
>> >>
>> >> For example, if you are interested in email encryption, you might
>> >> want to have a look at my herprip program,
>> >> <http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/herbrip.html>.
>> >
>> >Is there some reason you've defined your own protocol instead of just
>> >using S/MIME or OpenPGP?
>> 
>> My understanding of OpenPGP is that it doesn't provide for automatic
>> transmission of public keys
>
>Hmm, note that verifying the authenticity of public keys prior of
>using them for encryption or signature verification is an essential
>part of using public-key cryptography.

Why do you say that?

BTW, verification in Herbivore vwill be possible, but will be 
optional.

>> my goal is to make encryption totally effort-free for the user
>
>IMHO not doable.

IMO it is doable in principle if you discount man-in-the-middle 
attacks.


-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 30 14:54:32 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:54:32 -0400
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <mailman.999189586.17201.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u7kvlz8d3.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Gerson.Kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) writes:

> Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own print
> function - er - statement. So, is "print e2 e3 e4 e5" a valid statement ?
> No. Is "print e2,e3,e4,e5" ambiguous ? No. So what is the problem?

Why wouldn't the second case be ambiguous?  If e2, e3 etc.. are
callable functions, are you trying to print the result of calling e2
etc.. or are you trying to print the __str__ of the object that e2 is
referencing?  Remember also that an arbitrary object in Python may be
made callable, so the __str__ may in fact be more detailed information
than just <function e2 at #####>, for example:

    >>> class Callable:
    ...   def __call__(self):
    ...     return 10
    ...   def __str__(self):
    ...     return "Special stuff"
    ...
    >>> c = Callable()
    >>> print c
    Special stuff
    >>> print c()
    10

Now, what should the first "print c" do under your suggestion?  Either
possibility is valid - that's ambiguous :-)

> I was quite astonished about how strongly people seemed to react to that
> idea. Please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour, and
> couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you have to
> enclose the arguments in brackets.

But that wasn't how you phrased your original proposal.  Although you
may have been thinking about a print equivalent (e.g., a very limited
type of function and usage of that function), you wrote:

  "... Wouldn't it be nice if you *could* call your "normal" functions
  in the same way [as print]? ..."

which is far more general, and as has been pointed out a far more
ambiguous suggestion than you seemed to realize in your original post.
But as above, even the print idea is ambiguous.  I think it's that
which is creating the reaction, since most people are looking at the
further reaching impacts than just a replacement for print.

Personally I don't find the potential confusion caused by such
irregular handling of function arguments to be worth the tiny benefit
from not needing parentheses in the few statements in Python.  

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 21:02:23 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:02:23 -0400
Subject: language lawyering - doc strings
In-Reply-To: <4rqneryl.fsf@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFILJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[gcash]
> Thanks, but I was looking for what allowed me to put a string as the
> first statement of a function or class.
>
> I know I *can*, but not because of anything the language spec says.

That isn't the problem:  section 8.2 says that a complete Python program has
the form

file_input:     (NEWLINE | statement)*

and if you trace back far enough you'll find that a plain string is a
legitimate statement.  Similarly, in

classdef:       "class" classname [inheritance] ":" suite

you'll find that a plain string can be the first statement in a suite.  And
so on.

What you *aren't* going to find is something saying that a plain string as
the first stmt of a suite is something special.  Indeed, this is legit
Python too:

def example():
    "I'm a docstring"
    "But I'm not"
    "And neither am I"
    6*2
    example
    "Me neither"

That function doesn't look terribly useful, but its meaning is defined (if
called, it does a little useless crap, then returns None).




From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 10:44:20 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:44:20 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <9mo1p3$3buv1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Xns910EAA962DA3FPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> said :

> use locale:
>>>> import locale
>>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"") 'English_United States.1252'
>>>> print locale.format('%.3f',12345.6789,1) 
> 12,345.679

Aha ! probably wouldn't have thought of nosing through _that_ module :)
Thanks for the tip - works great ! (even in French :)
 
> But watch out for negative numbers:
>>>> print locale.format('%.3f',-345.6789,1)
> -,345.679

For now these are file sizes -- normally not a problem :)
 
> HTH,

Certainly did ! Thanks again...

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  8 20:05:48 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:05:48 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
		<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
		<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org>
		<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B71D3DC.A964483@engcorp.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
> > > Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
> > > > About that one, it always saddened me a little bit that I may not write:
> > > >
> > > >         if x in 1, 2, 3:
> > > >             pass
> > > >
> > > > while I can write:
> > > >
> > > >         for x in 1, 2, 3:
> > > >             pass
> 
> > "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> > > I would never have thought to write either of these.
> 
> Really?  You write parentheses all the time?

No, just when I write tuples!  <wink>

Yes, I *definitely* use parentheses around tuples all the time.

 (a) One obvious way to do things.

 (b) I never knew there was another way at first, and the habit stuck.

 (c) Fits my brain better, since I see parentheses and think "tuple".
     (My brain has to pause, perhaps, when a function with arguments 
      is called.  I don't notice the pause, apparently. :-)

> Whichever language I use, I try to avoid abusing parentheses, as using them
> often leaves me with the bad feeling I do not know the language enough,
> and that I write it fuzzily, adding parentheses "just in case"... :-)

 (d) I heavily abuse parentheses for complex expressions, since I'm
     a programmer of very little brain (ref. Winnie the Pooh).
     I almost never rely on my recollection of operator precedence.
     Since this has nothing to do with tuples, I wouldn't consider
     using parentheses for tuples to be "abusive" in any way, just
     a syntax which, for me, might as well be required.

> Of course, for many languages, parentheses could be effectively used to
> increase legibility.  But for marking tuples, Python does not need them
> in most cases, it may be more noisy than useful having them to mark tuples
> when it is not required to do so.  Python sources are cleaner without such
> spurious parentheses, and it is a good habit learning to avoid them.

You haven't convinced me yet, other than the "slightly less noise" 
argument.  Other than that one debatable advantage (which may not
outweigh the associated disadvantages, to me), do you have any
other reasons you think it's a good habit to avoid this?

> There is one case, however, where using parentheses with tuples is worth
> doing, and this is for long lists of tuple elements spanning more than one
> line.  Parentheses combined with proper indenting help the eye at catching
> the overall structure.  For short tuples that fit on a line, parentheses are
> overkill to me.

For me, this paragraph leads me conclusively back to my current view:
use parentheses for all tuples.  

To do otherwise would be inconsistent, and to me 

   (inconsistency == unmaintainability) .

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Aug 20 21:13:47 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:13:47 GMT
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b81b5ab.211557072@news.laplaza.org>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:12:20 +0200, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

:"Neil Macneale" <mac4-devnull at theory.org> wrote in message
:news:3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net...
:    ...
:> It turns out that its has been awhile since I used the exec* functions
:> in C, and now I remember why- I don't like fork()! I consider it black
:> magic.  Forking from a process which uses a lot of memory is not
:> something I want to do all the time.  Especially considering the program
:> I am writing.
:
:On good Unix-ish implementations, your process's memory is
:only duplicated 'virtually', with copy-on-write.  It's therefore
:no big issue to fork "a process which uses a lot of memory".
:It's not Unix V7 on a PDP-11 any more, you know -- we have
:virtual memory these days, and page tables, and other such
:modern wonders.

Yup, it's really only some page table fiddling.  "Text" (code) is
shareable anyway since it's put in a read-only segment. Page table
entries for data are marked copy-on-write.  If the very next thing you
do is "exec" the cost is not terribly high.

The earlier BSD solution was to write a version of fork (vfork) that
declared your intention to immediately perform an exec so the kernel
didn't have to do the work of setting up those things that would be
tossed.

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 28 02:24:59 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:24:59 -0700
Subject: Semaphores?
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org> <7xwv3og71o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9mf6u5$r74$1@panix2.panix.com> <7xofp0sqnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9mfbrh$7u2$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7x8zg4hfb8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
> Ah.  Well, let me channel Tim and Guido and tell you to come back when
> you have a patch that supports the following platforms:
> 
> Linux
> Windows
> Mac OS X
> Solaris
> HP-UX
> 
> Portability is one of Python's prime virtues, and I know that Guido and
> team *hate* maintaining lots of platform-specific code.  Do feel free to
> write up the PEP, though; having a design spec is one of the necessary
> requisites for getting anywhere.

It can't be done portably, but mmap() can't be done portably either.
There has to be platform specific code for both.


From aito at carenet.co.jp  Sun Aug 19 05:44:50 2001
From: aito at carenet.co.jp (Akio Ito)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 02:44:50 -0700
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <82399a9.0108190144.cffeff7@posting.google.com>

henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com (Henrik Ekelund) wrote in message news:<f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85 at posting.google.com>...
> We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
> C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
> working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
> work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
> lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?

See: Python2C: a Python to C translator. http://www.lyra.org/greg/.


From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Wed Aug 15 00:35:28 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:35:28 +1000
Subject: Attention Physicians
References: <mailman.997775121.18654.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B79FC10.94AD2E33@student.gu.edu.au>

Lorene Brownlee wrote:

Okay, this one's dodgy, or at least off topic. Posted to a python group
and not a single mention of python in the entire thing.

-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Aug  3 16:20:01 2001
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 20:20:01 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com>

Chris Barker wrote:
> 

> 
> This is not at all what I meant. What I meant was that many companies
> and organisations keep restrictions on their code, even if it does not
> help, and may hurt, their bottom line. The microsoft example was an
> extreme example of a company whose bottom line would be hurt by freeing
> their code.
> 
> An example I can think of at the moment is hardware companies that keep
> their drivers proprietary: they are in the business of selling hardware,
> not drivers, the drivers are needed to use the hardware. The more they
> free the code of the drivers, and the more they make the specs of their
> hardware available, the more likely it is that someone will write a
> driver that they havn't written themselves (for Linux as an example),
> and then they can sell more hardware. Many times this information is
> kept proprietary simply because business peopl find the idea of giving
> away something they have paid for distainfull, it is closed minded
> business practices.
> 
>

Ah!  Sorry, I didn't understand your point.  And, yes, there are a lot
of silly companies that "cut off their nose to spite their face" - it
really *is* silly for a hw device manufacturer to *hide* their APIs
for all the reasons you mentioned.


> I'm not questioning that having your code GPL'd out from under you was a
> risk that may have made no sense for your company, the question was
> whether there was a risk of that happening. I imagine some years ago,
> and before the LGPL was established, that it was less clear how all this
> was applied. IN the current GPL FAQ at www.gnu.org, it clearly states
> that:

Yes, the example I cited was well before all this.  I need to go back
and reread the LGPL.  One area that was not (and still is not, only because
I have not kept up with it) clear to me is how code generated by
flex and bison was to be treated since they include GPLed code in the
output...  I'll get around to looking into this when I need to.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 11:34:25 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:34:25 -0500
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BF56@intrepid>
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BF56@intrepid>
Message-ID: <15208.8577.273116.55200@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> BTW, is there a code coverage measurement tool for Python yet?
 
    Simon> Skip Montanaro's is here -
    Simon> <http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/trace.py>.

Actually, my trace.py module is now part of the Python distribution,
available at

    .../Tools/scripts/trace.py

Skip



From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 08:51:46 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:51:46 +0100
Subject: namespace confusion
Message-ID: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk>

Trivial question I think.

I have a program that is organised in three files as follows:

#main.py
#########

from first import *
from second import *

functfirst() #from first
functSecond() #from second

########################

#first.py
##########

functfirst()

************

#second.py
##########

from first import *

def functCecond():
	functfirst() #

-----------------------------------------------

The problem I am having is I can't access the functfirst() from 
second.py. It makes no differce if I import it or not. What am I doing 
wrong or not doing that I should?

blobby



From norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu  Wed Aug 22 21:27:44 2001
From: norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu (Norm Wood)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 18:27:44 -0700
Subject: Finding modules in subdirectories of sys.path
References: <3b841921@news.ColoState.EDU> <to88ed1cncem3c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3b844e00@news.ColoState.EDU>

Maan,

Thanks - after trying a few more things along the lines of your
suggestion, I think I see how it works.

If sys.path is '/home/me/lib/python2.0', then "import Physics"
doesn't work, but "import Scientific.Physics" does.

If sys.path is '/home/me/lib/python2.0/Scientific', then
"import Physics" works.

Regards,
Norm

Maan M. Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> Norm
> I have not used these packages and I do not know how they install.  But from
> my experience in Windows - if you install packages, you should be able to
> use modules by importing packages.  so if you have these directories in
> sys.path, did you try:
> import Physics
> for example and see what happens?  Provided you have __init__.py in that
> subdirectory it should find it.  Then you can use modules from this package.
> Maan
> 
> "Norm Wood" <norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu> wrote in message
> news:3b841921 at news.ColoState.EDU...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've installed the NumPy extensions and Scientific Python package into
>> subdirectories of my home directory:
>>
>> /home/me/lib/python2.0/Numeric
>> /home/me/lib/python2.0/Scientific
>>
>>
>> The Scientific directory contains a number of subdirectories (Physics,
>> Statistics, etc.).  It appears that, in order to import modules from
>> these subdirectories, each subdirectory has to be listed explicitly
>> in sys.path.  Otherwise, I get an import error.
>>
>> Is it possible to cause python to search recursively through the
>> directories rooted at /home/me/lib/python2.0?  Or is it possible
>> to place some sort of index in /home/me/lib/python2.0 so that python
>> can locate the modules within the subdirectories without explicitly
>> listing each subdirectory in sys.path?


From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Tue Aug  7 08:55:45 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:55:45 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <000c01c11f40$46a6f780$a9e1fea9@carol>

As Stephen and I seem to have in common some deep resentments
over a small language change, I thought it would be interesting to 
isolate *our* differences.

Stephen writes :

>If there was an undeniably good reason for the change, I would agree
>with this. As it stands, there are equally good - if not better -
>reasons for keeping division as it is.

I personally have no strong feeling about how a div operator should
work or whether a language should be case insensitive.  

But it is clear to me that the issues have been given unreasonable
significance by those with the burden of proof to justify a
change from the status quo.

Why?

It is also  clear to me that the div operator issue argument 
could not, would not, and should not have gotten as heated 
as it did were it not for the backdrop of the case insensitivity
threat.

>At the end of the day, the change is being done because of a religious
>viewpoint held by a vocal part of the group that has a long history
>of rioting at the palace gates. The decision isn't being made by
>logic or by popularity - it's being made because the DFL has been
>hearing the protestors shouting for too long while the happy and
>indifferent users have just got on with using Python. He is a new-born
>division-must-be-done-this-way-ist.

I disagree with Stephen here. This was a top down issue
always - not a reaction to the clamoring of a vocal minority.
Guido himself seems to have a religious perspective on what
CP4E is about - a vision thing. Strongly influenced by Alice, the
CMU Virtual Reality project. Suffice it to say that IMO it is a 
quirky vision.

Have ranted at length about it on EDU-SIG. It is the Alice project
that confirmed the significance of case sensitivity to Guido. I and 
others tried to convince Guido that those findings were flawed to 
such an extent where they could be safely ignored. Tim Peters, 
if I am not mistaken, publicly weighed in on it- "flawed". 
Deaf ears.

Then VPython comes along - also out of Carnegie Mellon.  Guido 
states that VPython "failed to confirm" Alice's findings about the 
significance of case sensitivity.  I note Guido's wording. In better 
words, "contradicted" those findings. No surprise.  

Stating it as diplomatically as I can, the argument 
that anything of significance could be generalized from
Alice's findings was, is, and has been flawed. 

Rather than going back to the drawing board and questioning 
himself about where he is looking for evidence, and how 
he is evaluating it - Guido now takes VPython's findings 
about the "/" operator (and its "confirmation" of Alice's 
"findings") as the new testament. 

Or at least seems to expect us to be satisfied with it.

I happen to remained convinced that any conclusions drawn
from the VPython reports are simplistically linear as to
its implications for the inexperienced programmer working
in the numerical realm within the overall framework of Python. 

Realize that VPython is Numeric through and through.  The
distribution includes it. All its demos draw from it.

As per the recent Zero Division Error "bug report" on the 
list.

import Numeric
a=array([1,2,3]
a[0]=.4
1/a[0] = Zero Division Error

With 3/4 = 0, the clearest signpost to Python's numeric
behavior, gone - Numeric behavior does in fact look more
and more bizarre and mysterious and unreasonable.

The fact is that next semesters bugs produced against VPython
will be deeper, harder to fathom and uncover.  Students
will have a better basis to complain of having been trapped
by design flaws of the tool they have been assigned to use
then they had last semester IMO.

ART







From nas at python.ca  Fri Aug 10 18:00:14 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:00:14 -0700
Subject: from __future__ import generators
In-Reply-To: <3B744965.52328B32@ccvcorp.com>; from jeff@ccvcorp.com on Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 01:51:50PM -0700
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081815201.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu> <mailman.997310774.30348.python-list@python.org> <3B744965.52328B32@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20010810150014.A8359@glacier.fnational.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> if I've got a module that declares a generator:
...
> And then a second module that imports gen1 and uses that generator....
...
> Would gen2.py also require the __future__ statement?

Nope.  It's only needed in modules that have the yield statement in
them.

  Neil



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 13:11:11 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:11:11 -0700
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python 
 Path Blues)
References: <mailman.998008948.12318.python-list@python.org> <tnqeusm7gm6f8c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D502F.3539FBFD@ccvcorp.com>

"Maan M. Hamze" wrote:

> What is important here is that this can be a BIG turn-off for beginners.
> It took me more than a day of tinkering with the registry while trying to
> make DCOracle2 and mxODBC packages for Python run correctly.  Then I
> discovered it was all a matter of adding PYTHONPATH into the environment in
> Win NT and Win ME (for Win ME through running msconfig  then going to
> Environment tab or creating a PYTHONPATH setting in autoexec.bat which
> updates the Win ME environment).

Well, there are other ways than tinkering with the registry, too.  Haven't tried
it myself, but I've heard that putting a python.pth file in the same directory
as your python.exe, will cause each line of the .pth file to be interpreted as a
path to add to sys.path.  On the other hand, I fiddled with my registry (on
Win95/98) to add directories to my path, and, while I don't recall *exactly*
what I did with it, it only took me a few tries to figure out.  I do agree that
this could be better documented, though...  but I suspect that, due to the ease
(and portability) of using .pth files, that it's not going to be a high
priority.

(for others' reference:  I  went to
HKLM/SOFTWARE/Python/PythonCore/2.0/PythonPath and modified the default value to
include the desired path)

Btw, part of the reason that PythonWin uses the registry differently than other
modules, is doubtless because most modules try to stay as portable as possible,
and obviously registry usage is *not* portable.  OTOH, PythonWin and the
win32all extensions are by definition non-portable.  Therefore, it seems to make
sense that they behave like good Windows programs, and use the registry to store
their settings.  Indeed, some parts *require* using the registry--like, say
PythonCOM.  Yes, it makes things a less uniform... but I don't know that there's
any significantly better way of doing things.  If you really don't like the
registry behavior, you could go get PythonWare's distribution, which doesn't
touch the registry at all (and is designed to live happily alongside different
Python distro's....)  Of course, win32all will *still* require registry
settings, but... that's life in a multiplatform world, I'm afraid.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 15 02:43:51 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:43:51 +1000
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <01081516435101.01461@ike>

On Wednesday 15 August 2001 15:59, Paul Rubin wrote:
> I just started playing with python and haven't been able to figure
> out the following things from the docs I've found:
>
> 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> real and imaginary parts separately?  I guess I could say
>    x = (a + a.conjugate())/2
>    y = (a - a.conjugate())/2
> but I can't take this language seriously if that's what the designers
> intended.

>>> a = 1 + 2j
>>> dir(a)
['conjugate', 'imag', 'real']
>>> a.imag
2.0
>>> a.real
1.0

See also the manual - the tutorial covers this in the Numbers section. The 
library reference covers this in the Numbers section of the builtin types 
section.


> 2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
>    I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
>      is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>      is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>      is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>      is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type

  "type(value) == IntType"
  "type(value) == type(1)"

See the manual under builtin functions, or the types module.


> 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
>    branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
>    implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
>    Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.

This one I can't help you with as I can't recall what a "branch cut" is.


    Richard



From stepken at little-idiot.de  Wed Aug 29 05:13:46 2001
From: stepken at little-idiot.de (Guido Stepken)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:13:46 +0200
Subject: Running Python on a MOSIX cluster
References: <87e9cb21.0108251104.7d3b530d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8cb023$0$1816$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Mikko Huhtala wrote:

> I am trying to run Python programs on a MOSIX cluster (Linux kernel
> 2.4.8 + MOSIX 1.2.2). A single Python process runs nicely and finishes
> cleanly but if there are more than one Python process launched from
> the same shell or from a Python program, all but the one (not
> necessarily the one that started first) terminate with a segfault and
> core dump. The output from the segfaulted processes is not complete.
> 
> I tried RPM packaged Pythons 1.5.2 and 2.1.1 as well as 2.1.1 compiled
> from source on the MOSIX cluster. The result was the same with all of
> them.
> 
> I am not very familiar with the inner workings of either Python or
> MOSIX. Does the Python interpreter make a full copy of itself for each
> Python process? For some reason concurrent Python processes do not
> like each other on a MOSIX kernel.
> 
> 
> Mikko Huhtala
> 

Python 2.1.1 IMHO is stackless python ....green threads means, that python 
interpreter itself is doing multitasking. Older versions 1.5, 1.6 ... need 
kernel-threads - so older versions may spread over the mosix cluster.

regards, Guido Stepken


From kwg at renre-europe.com  Tue Aug  7 09:10:47 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 14:10:47 +0100
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <997189306.19769.6.camel@lewis>
References: <mailman.997178713.4482.python-list@python.org> 
	<3B6FDC24.72A9DC7@westerngeco.com>  <997189306.19769.6.camel@lewis>
Message-ID: <997189853.19769.9.camel@lewis>

On 07 Aug 2001 14:01:26 +0100, Ken Guest wrote:
> On 07 Aug 2001 13:16:36 +0100, Martin Franklin wrote:
> > Ken,
> > 
> > Take a look at the Pmw (Python Mega Widgets)
> > they've got an EntryField with validation plus some
> > built in validators (including dates, numbers, etc)
> > I use it for validating filenames.
> 
> hi Martin,
> thanks for that, but I'm  fairly much committed to using tkinter.
> Can they both (tkinter and pmw) coexist within the same application?
> That might make things more likely to be reconsidered
> (as we're migrating a tcl+tk app over to python and really don't
> want to change too much of it too quickly).

website found. looks interesting - this might well do the trick.
Thanks Martin,

k.




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Aug  3 14:06:28 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:06:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
In-Reply-To: <ssya7.78137$Cy.11439637@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108031357540.334-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Tim Hochberg wrote:

> "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in message>
> 
> # This is MUCH nicer than using os.path.walk() with a callback!
> >
> > ##  print the first 20 gif files I can find in your cwd...
> > for f in Count(Test( Files('.'), isGif ), 20 ): print f
> 
> Very cool!
> 
> Although I do think it would be easier to read if the order of the test and
> the generator was reversed:
> 
> for f in Count(20, Test(isGif,  Files('.'))): print f
> 
> I may just have a weak mind, but on the first version, I lost track of who
> the 20 belonged to by the time I got to the end.

I think you're probably right about swapping the arg order making it
more readable, Tim. 

Those generators, or something similar, are probably good candidates
for a standard generator utility module. 

The Files generator could also take multiple tests, so they wouldn't
have to be nested, and maybe also default paramater args for some
common things like file-extension, glob-patterns, dates, etc. 
( Basically the sort of stuff in the unix 'find' command. 
  Long ago, I recall someone doing a python equivalent of unix 'file'
  matching 'magic numbers' -- that might be a nice addition. ) 


-- Steve 




From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Wed Aug  1 15:42:16 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 19:42:16 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>              <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:28:54 -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> I'm starting to like the is{subclass,instance}() version. It's probably
>> quicker for one to understand code written by others, and for
>> non-fulltime-python-programmers to remember what "in" means in each
>> context.

>You may be right.  isinstance() and issubclass() are somewhat standard
>in other languages I believe, and hard to misunderstand.  The form
>  if x in list: ...
>looks a lot more confusing.  I may withdraw this idea.

If you insist.  I think "x in type" is cleaner than isinstance(x,type).
The main problem with the second one is that it requires memory of the
order of the arguments, as well as the name of the syntax.

I do admit that "for x in type" is a nasty surprise, though.  I can't
think of anything obvious to do with that.  Aside from having classes and
types be capable of returning their own iterators, of course.  (That would
be an odd way of allowing introspection.)

>--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From jessefw at loop.com  Fri Aug 24 14:51:07 2001
From: jessefw at loop.com (Jesse F. W)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
Message-ID: <3B863FAB.20487.80B378F@localhost>

Dear Python-list-iners,
	I have another Testing related question.  How are unit tests done 
when the units to be tested get lots of information from nested 
objects, e.g. (in a method of a class to be tested):
if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop':
how would this be tested?
	Should you simulate the parts of the app object that are needed? 
In that case, you have to update the tests when you use parts of the 
app object you did not use before.  Should you use a real app 
object?  Then you are not really doing _unit_ testing, and it would 
make running detailed tests very difficult?  Is there another solution 
that anyone knows about?

	Thank you all for your time,
		Jesse W



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Aug  7 00:51:11 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 00:51:11 -0400
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
References: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com> <ur8utjcjp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <54c26728.0108042159.c06386@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uk80gxykg.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

shezafd at yahoo.com (Daphna Shezaf) writes:

> > The only piece that I've had trouble doing this way is win32com
> > support since it does some strange things with its module definitions
> > (using the local registry) and has some dependency on some core DLLs
> > being in the system directory.  Or at least I haven't figured out how
> > to cleanly avoid that yet.
> 
> Thanks, it seems to be working the way I want.
> Did you try using other win32.. stuff? I'd like to have some message
> boxes using win32ui, for example, and it doesn't seem to work.

Hmm - what sort of error or problem did you get?  I probably haven't
tried using win32ui (I use wxPython for our GUI stuff), but I know I've
used most of the non-GUI portions of win32all ok.

Ah wait, I might know - you want to make sure that the win32 package
directories are part of your Python path, even when your network
Python installation might not be by default.  Normally the win32all
package gets things added to sys.path via (again - ugh) some local
registry changes, which you don't have when running across the
network.

But you can cover this with a .pth file in the root of your network
Python installation.  I just call mine "python.pth" and among some
site-specific stuff also have the lines:

    win32
    win32\lib

in it to cover the win32 pieces.  I think you'd also want to include
the line:

    pythonwin

to include the win32ui stuff.

Sorry about that - I think I forgot about that step (having set it up
a while back).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 04:19:31 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 01:19:31 -0700
Subject: Copyright Madness
References: <QkKf7.3608$Qh2.775818@typhoon.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7xae0wihrg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Larry" <larrystg at san.rr.com> writes:
>      I'm considering using Python 2.1.1 for a commercial application
> that I intend to market and sell for profit.  I've explored
> python.org and found only confusion.  It seems that earlier versions
> of Python were not as copyright restrictive as 2.1.1.  Would my plan
> be a violation of the GPL?  Would I have to distribute my program
> for free?  I'm pretty confused on this matter, and I really don't
> want to call a lawyer.  Thanks.

The GPL is only an issue if you're incorporating GPL'd components
into your program.  If your program is written completely in Python
and doesn't depend on any GPL'd Python modules then you're fine.


From cliechti at mails.ch  Fri Aug  3 14:40:22 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 20:40:22 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns90F2D2F4717C7cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

[posted and mailed]

Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in 
news:3B6A6B97.2060306 at herts.ac.uk:

> Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the ++/-- 
> operator out of python. It is perhaps my only irritation with python, it
> is just that I hate to have to write:
> 
> x = x + 1

that does load x modifies it and saves the value to x. x is touched twice.

x += 1

does touch x only once and it supported in newer python versions.

> 
> when my whole being just yearns to type
> 
> x++

this touches x once

"++" and "--" are old idioms that are left from C. the idea of that was to 
use "inc" and "dec" assembler instructions but that was before compliers 
knew optimizations.

> I guess it is perhaps not as clear, but I am not aware of it being a
> common cause of errors in C++ or java (doesn't mean it isn't, just that
> I am not aware of them). I also miss +=, *=, %=, /=, would it really 
> make the code that much harder to read/maintain?

have you tried python 2.0 or up? they know += and so


-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From china at foo.com  Fri Aug  3 02:31:13 2001
From: china at foo.com (Albert Chin-A-Young)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:31:13 -0000
Subject: The error of building Python on HP UX
References: <mailman.996204469.11450.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tmkh9hsc873q2f@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Guido]
>> (Couldn't resist. :-)
>>
>> It is indeed an error to attempt to build Python on HP UX.  (See the
>> endless laments in the SF bug database.)

> [SteveN]
>> And yet HP makes it available:
>> http://hpux.connect.org.uk/hppd/hpux/Languages/python-2.1/

> They've made binaries available for some time, yet HP-UX users seem
> incapable of successfully compiling it themselves ("see the endless laments
> in the SF bug database" indeed).  So what's up with that platform?!  Would
> sure be nice if one of the folks at the HP Porting Centre filled us in --
> and if they need to patch the source to get it to compile, we'd be delighted
> to fold that into the core.

We'll submit patches for 2.0.1 and 2.1.1. I think we did so for 2.0
and 2.1 but I don't remember. HP-UX 11.00 with threads works fine for
us.

-- 
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)


From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Tue Aug 14 18:02:33 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:02:33 +0200
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <etd3d6uz724.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B799FF9.E2B80F52@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi,

> There isn't one AFAIK, at least not along the lines you're probably
> thinking of.  The closest is
> 
> while 1:
>     line = fh.readline()
>     if line == '': break

Even simpler:

while 1:
    line = file.readline()
    if not line: break
    ## Process the line here

Kudos, Dietmar


From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Sat Aug 18 18:24:02 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 15:24:02 -0700
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9ligoo0s2g@enews3.newsguy.com> <9lin1v$d57$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9ljh530253k@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lmpu2$7an$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <9ljh530253k at enews2.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>news:9lin1v$d57$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
>    ...
>> Aren't input parameters INCREF'd on the function call into C?  I can't
>
>Nope: if the C code wants to keep hold of them it needs to incref
>them itself (only while the specific Python-called C function itself is
>executing is the object guaranteed not to go away).
>
>> imagine it'd be very cool to have something like:
>>
>> a = "hello there!"
>> fn(a)
>> print a
>> (core dump)
>
>Could happen, if fn decref'd a by more than it addref'd.

Well, yes, and that would be a bug ;).  But I don't have to worry about
the following situation, do I?  (forgive the pseudocode)

c_function(Py_String string)
{
/* do stuff */
BEGIN ALLOW_THREADS
do_something(string)
END_ALLOW_THREADS
/* do stuff */
}

and then:

---
thread1:		thread2:

c_function(s)		
	-->threadswap	del(s)

<core dump, s no longer valid>
---

If thread1 and thread2 were accessing s in different namespaces, then I
would certainly not have to worry about it.  However, if they used s in
the *same* namespace, then only the fact that 's' had been passed into
c_function would be protecting it... Argh, I need to go look into the C
code running this stuff Python!

thanks again,
--titus


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Wed Aug 22 09:37:05 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:37:05 -0500
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com> <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <to7dejr8jk4e87@corp.supernews.com>

Steve
The win32all implementation installs the Python ActiveX scripting engine.
This means that it can be used in ASP pages without the need for any client
to have Python installed.  In cases like that, Python should be installed on
the server only where Python is run.
Maan

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> "David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
> news:3B82FB32.258CB937 at theworld.com...
> > Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?  I
> > assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is some
> > sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute Python?
> >
> > I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java, because of
> > the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could be
> > used directly.
> >
> The ActivePython implementation, or standard Windows Python with the
> win32all extensions, allow you to use Python as an ActiveScripting
language.
> However, you will need to be able to guarantee that all your clients have
> Python installed: is this something under your control?
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --
> http://www.holdenweb.com/
>
>
>
>
>




From andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 02:34:55 2001
From: andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 06:34:55 GMT
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b@posting.google.com> <x0cj7.71700$54.3813230@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910DA9411E997andytoddspamfreeyaho@203.109.250.24>

Steve challenged, I had to respond ;-)

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
<x0cj7.71700$54.3813230 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>: 

>"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b at posting.google.com...
>> When i run this code
>>
>> name= Create('Name')
>> file= open('%s.btv' % name, "w")
>>
>> i end up with a file name that has a set of ' ' around the name like
>> so 
>>
>> 'Name'.btv
>>
>> How can i fix this?
>
>>>> name = Create('Name')
>Traceback (innermost last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>NameError: There is no variable named 'Create'
>
>I think we need a little more context before we can be of much help,
>despite this newsgroup's famous psychic debugging abilities. That is,
>unless someone out there wants to prove me wrong ...

My lack of pyschic ability lead me to;
>>> filename1='''Name'''
>>> print '%s.btv' % filename1
Name.btv

So that obviously works ... hmmm
Then I tried;
>>> filename2="'Name'"
>>> print '%s.btv' % filename2
'Name'.btv

Bingo! This is more than likely causing your problem. Note the combination 
of double and single quotes. They are guaranteed to trip up the unwary.

Obviously I skipped
>>> filename0='Name'
because I new that would give us;
>>> print '%s.btv' % filename0
Name.btv

The moral of the story? Try to avoid encoding quotation marks in you 
character strings at all costs. If you do need to preserve them, be very, 
very careful.

For what its worth my rule of thumb is;

Use ' for ordinary characters,
Use " if you *must* include quotation marks within the string (then watch 
out when evaluating these strings)

Oh, and test like buggery as well ;-)

If you want the total lowdown on string literals (for some reason I only 
have the 2.0.1 reference but I don't believe it has changed), look in the 
manual;

http://www.python.org/doc/2.0.1/ref/strings.html

>
>About all I can tell you is that you are putting quotes in somewhere
>they aren't required, but you'd probably wirked that out.
>
>Eber, please post the whole program, or if it's too long (say, > 100
>lines) or a secret then write a shorter program to demonstrate the bug
>and post that.

Here, here. Although, hopefully the miniscule examples above will lead you 
to solve your problem.

>
>regards
> Steve
>--
>http://www.holdenweb.com/
>

Regards,
Andy
-- 
Content free posts a speciality


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 19:25:51 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:25:51 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141936490.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <15225.7034.183197.921760@beluga.mojam.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141936490.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15225.45951.282194.877409@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roman> Well, I just think that probably interpreter could optimize by
    Roman> just IMPLICITLY making caching of global references, like in this
    Roman> (current) optimization trick:

    Roman> import os    # for constants

    Roman> def f(x, y, z,   # normal atts
    Roman>       cached_os_O_NONBLOCK=os.O_NONBLOCK,   # optimization trick
    Roman>       cached ....
    Roman>      )

    Roman>     # here we use os.O_NONBLOCK, but interpreter uses
    Roman>     # local _names_ and thus fast lookup.

No, that's not possible in the general case.  You are assuming that
os.O_NONBLOCK is truly a constant.  There's nothing to prevent me from
having this code:

    i = 1

    def foo():
      for j in range(1000):
        bar()
        if i % 100 == 0:
           print i

    def bar():
      global i
      i += 1

If you simply cache the value of the global variable i, you'll never print
anything. 

For those people on python-list who have no idea what this thread is about,
please be patient.  Once Barry Warsaw assigns a PEP number to it, I will
announce it to python-list.

Thanks,

Skip



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Aug 30 11:47:09 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:47:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
In-Reply-To: <slrn9osmeo.g1.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108301145440.271-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Michael Teo wrote:

> I get an "OverflowError: long int too long to convert" when I tried to 
> print "%d" % l
> where l is a long Python value.
> 
> I have tried using str(l) but that gives a trailing 'L'.
> 
> Any good suggestion on how to solve this problem will be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks.
> 

It works for me -- what version of Python are you using?
-- Steve Majewski

Python 2.1.1 (#1, 07/20/01, 14:46:06) 
[GCC Apple DevKit-based CPP 6.0alpha] on darwin1
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> big = long( 8.76e99 )         
>>> big
8759999999999999354471093662302337438821457945314428213916079963522740178689040274755268484706336768L
>>> "%d" % big
'8759999999999999354471093662302337438821457945314428213916079963522740178689040274755268484706336768'
>>> 







From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Aug 27 06:57:39 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 10:57:39 GMT
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998804559.5680.python-list@python.org> <9md62v01ne3@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9ok9t3.bm8.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:06:21 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:

> def curry_to_argumentlessness(*args, **kwds):
>     def totally_curried_function():
>         return args[0](*args[1:],**kwds)
>     return totally_curried_function

A little bit nicer:

  def curry_to_argumentlessness(fun, *args, **kwds):
      def totally_curried_function():
          return fun(*args, **kwds)
      return totally_curried_function

or:

  def curry_to_argumentlessness(fun, *args, **kwds):
      return lambda: fun(*args, **kwds)

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Aug 17 12:28:29 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:28:29 -0500
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <D71f7.123070$g_3.18618906@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <VV3f7.7522$ms2.690750@news1.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <3B7D462D.6080602@wi.mit.edu>

Graham Ashton wrote:

>If you made the client and server talk to each other via something like
>XML-RPC then you could even put your daemon on a different machine if you
>wanted, allowing clients to connect over the network and farm jobs out to
>a server.
>
>  http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2000/11/22/xmlrpcclient.html
>
>With RPC you can execute procedures, or methods, on remote systems. So
>you'd have one RPC method to start the processing job, and one to
>retrieve the status of the job or the final answer.
>

Right, this is just a wire protocol albeit with a simpler interface than 
Corba/COM etc.  But you still need to hook into the GUI's event loop to 
handle events.  You can't just block and wait for a response, the GUI 
still needs to respond to events.

This has been my experience with every GUI system I've looked at (except 
mozilla actually I think they run javascript functions in seperate 
threads of execution).  The issue is that you have to know how to hook 
into the event loop using the GUI toolkits version of signal or alarm or 
whatever.  Like I mentioned there are plenty of remote proxies out there 
to run processes on other machines, the trick is keeping the GUI 
responsive during long running processes.

What I would like to see is a lightweigh framework for handling any 
proxy that delegates to the toolkit, something like:
class LongRunningTask:

class TkinterTask(LongRunningTask)

class GtkTask(LongRunningTask)
class QTTask(LongRunningTask)
class XMLRPCTask(LongRunningTask)

Each task would preserve a model, controller interface where a model is 
a class (or interface, see below) and a controller is a class (or interface)

 self.task = GtkTask(controller=self, task=task)

GtkTask starts up task and delegates all calls to the task in it's new 
process.  All calls from the task to the controller are also delegated 
appropriately.  Now the task can be started out of process, in process, 
through a corba mechanism or what not.

I gave a talk at the O'Reilly Open Source conference about this type of 
thing.  The gist was to automagically start a task running out of 
process and hook up an event model that could send python messages back 
and forth to the children through any applicable wire protocol.  Mitch 
Chapman showed me the joys of actually hiding this from the developer 
back at Bioreason.  He made a GtkTask class that automagically ran 
relatively arbitrary python code in another process.  We made a mistake 
and explained the process to our developers but would have been much 
better off just saying "do this and don't worry about it"

For example the GtkTask starts up a piece of code in another process and 
uses pipes to send messages back and forth so when the user executes 
something like

                     wire protocol
Controller  <---------------->  Task
Event Loop                               Task event Loop

class Controller:
 result = self.task.doSomething()

this gets propgated across the wire protocol and gets executed in the 
task's namespace.  XMLRPC is a dandy wire protocol for doing this but it 
still needs to interact with the GUI's event loop, especially for events 
(i.e. when the task has to call a method on the Controller for instance)

The Task event loop is a bit simpler since we can use Python's built in 
select, signal or whatever to do the polling.

Obviously this would be limited in scope for simplicity.  The relevant 
points are
1) Uses a controller/model method (where the model is a task here)
2) Asynchronous I/O between controller and model
3) The class has do be it's own interface, that is no __getattr__ or 
__setattr__ tricks or similar.  This is for the automagic part.
4) Only marshallable/picklable data can be seent between the two and all 
data is immutable.  I.e. changing an object on one side doesn't change 
it on the other, it must be passed back.
5) Processes must be killable!  This is easier with pipes and pids and 
the like, it's harder with COM/Corba and threads.

This would handle 99% of the issues I have seen for GUIs diehards can 
work with COM/Corba (although they still have to hook into the event loop!)

===========
About interfaces:
I used to think that Python's classes were pretty good descriptions of 
interfaces.  I still think that they are (within reason).  The problem 
is that python is to dynamic.  For example I wrote a COM policy to wrap 
arbitrary python objects and query their interfaces so that any object 
could become a COM object.  There was one simple rule:

Any method/attribute that begins with "_" was considered private and not 
exposed.

It worked well but I had a major problem.  Cached or lazily evaluated 
attributes.  Oops, they can't be seen across the wire.

That said, it worked well enough to start me thinking about the task 
issue at hand.  I think this is a small price to pay in this 
circumstance and have had pretty good luck telling my developers about 
how to use the wrapped classes.  That being said I sat in on Jim 
Fulton's "Future of Zope" birds of a feather and quickly realized that 
the added complexity of interfaces reduces time and effort down stream. 
 I think this is possibly more true with novices ironically enough.

Hopefully I'm making sense.  I know Mitch will correct me on invalid 
points at least.

Cheers

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research




From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug 21 23:09:55 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:09:55 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5@posting.google.com> <84ae7.102907$EP6.26280361@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <7oFg7.125076$EP6.34123007@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote in message
news:84ae7.102907$EP6.26280361 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...

>
> "Paul Boddie" <paul at boddie.net> wrote in message
> news:23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5 at posting.google.com...
> > I can understand Arthur's confusion, though. If you look at the
> > original posting concerning the patch, it does seem as if VPython
> was
> > a strong motivation:
>
> The division change (and some arguments pro and con) was formulated
at
> least by November 98 (see 'Deja/vu').  Did VPython exist then?  (I
> have no idea.)
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>

Up to here, this is forged repost of what I sent a week ago with
header

Path:
news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newsr1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.c
om!a-newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.r
dc2.pa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
References: <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list at python.org>
<23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5 at posting.google.com>
Subject: Re: Deposing Dictators
Lines: 16
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Message-ID: <84ae7.102907$EP6.26280361 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:54:12 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.252.60.2
X-Complaints-To: abuse at home.net
X-Trace: news1.rdc2.pa.home.com 997797252 24.252.60.2 (Tue, 14 Aug
2001 06:54:12 PDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:54:12 PDT
Organization: Excite at Home - The Leader in Broadband
http://home.com/faster
Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com comp.lang.python:30128468

> }

This line was added by forger.  It seems to match the open brace of
{Path... in the new headers.  Bizarre.  The X-Received-Date line in
new. Anyony have a clue what's going on?

Path:
news1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newsr1.rdc2.pa.home.com!newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.c
om!newshub1.rdc1.sfba.home.com!a-newshub1.rdc1.sfba.home.com!newshub2.
rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.bc.home.com.POSTED!not-for
-mail
{Path:
bluepeak.home.com!news3.calgary.shaw.ca!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!resi
dential.shaw.ca!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!new
sfeed.cwix.com!chatta.samart.co.th!news.nectec.or.th!news.loxinfo.co.t
h!feeder03.singnet.com.sg!feeder.singnet.com.sg!mawar.singnet.com.sg!f
eeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.pa.
home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
References: <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list at python.org>
<23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5 at posting.google.com>
Subject: Re: Deposing Dictators
Lines: 16
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Message-ID: <84ae7.102907$EP6.26280361 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Organization: Excite at Home - The Leader in Broadband
http://home.com/faster
X-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:08:59 MDT (news3.calgary.shaw.ca)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:28:26 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.79.118.45
X-Complaints-To: abuse at home.net
X-Trace: news1.rdc1.bc.home.com 998432906 24.79.118.45 (Tue, 21 Aug
2001 15:28:26 PDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:28:26 PDT
Xref: newshub1.rdc2.pa.home.com comp.lang.python:30129599

Terry J. Reedy







From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Aug 14 10:51:49 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 10:51:49 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008EABFF.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list@python.org> <47khntktd9cjng7sphu3ictjfglkh97ue6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3d66bqn18a.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> writes:
> But never delude yourself. This language isn't YOURS. It's
> THEIRS.

Note that by the terms of the license anyone is perfectly free to
begin maintaining their own fork of the Python source, as Christian
Tismer, the Alice group, and (I assume) the VPython group have done.
This is the whole point of free software, that if the people running
the project go insane and start taking it in a direction no one else
wants to go, the users can say "no thanks" and take the code in a
different direction.

However, doing that is by no means trivial; once you've take the code
changed division, or classes, or curly braces to your satisfaction,
now you've got to keep the docs up-to-date, and fix bugs in the
standard library, and fix build and installer bugs, and maintain a Web
site.  The community, and the python-dev gang, simply have to decide
if it's worth doing that. 

--amk                                          (www.amk.ca)
Men of action, I notice, are rarely humble, even in situations where
action of any kind is a great mistake, and masterly inaction is called
for.
    -- Robertson Davies, _The Table Talk of Samuel Marchbanks_


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Aug 24 07:18:07 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:18:07 +0100
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78C029@intrepid>

> From:	Joal Heagney [SMTP:s713221 at student.gu.edu.au]
> Not if she bans him from the computer. *sighs for his
> not-long-ago-childhood when people used actual PHYSICAL cards to play
> solitare*
 
What are you - some kind of Luddite? Next you'll be telling me that you
think meeting people is better than email!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From opennopri at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 22 21:16:58 2001
From: opennopri at yahoo.com (noprianto)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: socket question
Message-ID: <20010823011658.73432.qmail@web14909.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello

I'm learning python socket programming. As a newbie I
curious this :

- What AF_INET is, what SOCK_STREAM is.
  Have I always using AF_INET and SOCK_STREAM in all
my socket programming using python ? 

- How to open/close port ?

So far.
Thanks.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 23:43:52 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:43:52 +1000
Subject: optional args for getopt()
In-Reply-To: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com>
References: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <0108231343520N.28818@ike>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 12:59, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I can
> set an option string to something like:

Sorry, to answer this question directly - I don't believe it's possible in 
the current getopt code. Your best bet would possibly be to locally change 
getopt to do qhat you need (and at the same time, generate a patch that can 
be submitted to python.sf.net).


   Richard



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 10:06:46 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:06:46 +0200
Subject: simple ping program
References: <mailman.998553514.21024.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m32mk0284o@enews4.newsguy.com>

"noprianto" <opennopri at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998553514.21024.python-list at python.org...
> hello all,
>
> Does anyone know how to make a very simple ping
> program, with option to set the packet size....

http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz


Alex





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 29 14:07:25 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:07:25 GMT
Subject: programme call with popen
References: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com> <3B8D2533.9DDDF419@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oqbqt.ok2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:24:03 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> pisze:

>>>> myoutput = fout.read()
> 
> Note that this will block until the program has finished running.

I'm not sure about Windows, but it won't block that long on Unix.
Both processes will run in parallel exchanging data. The consumer
will temporarily block when the queue is empty and the producer will
block when the queue's buffer is full.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 16:12:25 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:12:25 -0700
Subject: Calling C++ from Python
References: <3B7D2A85.A11E46CB@hotmail.com> <3B7D5E93.56ABDB84@ccvcorp.com> <9ljomu02h1e@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D7AA9.9C574ABE@ccvcorp.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3B7D5E93.56ABDB84 at ccvcorp.com...
>     ...
> > its many variants.  (Note that popen() is broken on windows, you'll want
> to
>
> Not in the current Python (2.1).
>
> Alex

Ah.  I'm still using 2.0, and did have to work around this in order to
automate the usage of some horrible,  ancient (dos) utilities that we're
forced to use by a partner company.  (If I thought they'd give me access to
their specs, I'd be tempted to volunteer to rewrite the tools just so that I
wouldn't have to use their junk... good thing that I was able to hide almost
all of it inside a python script so I can just run that and forget the mess.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug  6 13:22:07 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:22:07 -0500
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <15214.53823.582440.173052@beluga.mojam.com>

    Dylan> The 'list' class/type has a method '__getslice__' (etc.), which
    Dylan> uses the old and very broken interface.  I want to define a
    Dylan> subclass for which this interface is insufficient.  If I want the
    Dylan> new interface, I have to figure out how to hide that method.
    Dylan> [Does anyone know how to do this?]

How about

    >>> class MyList(list):
    ...   def __getslice__(self, *args):
    ...     raise AttributeError, "__getslice__"
    ... 
    >>> x = MyList()
    >>> x.__getslice__()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 3, in __getslice__
    AttributeError: __getslice__

?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 15:39:48 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:39:48 +0200
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com> <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com>
Message-ID: <9kpg5m12utj@enews4.newsguy.com>

<phawkins at spamnotconnact.com> wrote in message
news:wky9ov6dgw.fsf at mail.connact.com...
> >>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> AM> def cdr(alist):
> AM>     return alist[1]
>
> Make that:
>
> return alist[1:]

Nope.  Remember, I had defined cons(a,b) as returning (a,b), and
cdr(cons(a,b))
must be b, not [b].


Alex





From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug 30 14:19:02 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:19:02 -0700
Subject: what makes a good enhancement?
Message-ID: <9mm02m02shi@drn.newsguy.com>

Hi Gang,

After submitting a PEP recently (PEP 265), I think I might have gained at least
a little insight into what makes a good Python enhancement.  (By "enhancement",
I mean a change or addition to Python's features, not a bug-fix.)  What I've
learned (or at least what I _think_ I've learned) doesn't seem to be written
down anywhere, so as a "service" to the community, I thought I'd try to codify
it here.  Please feel free to agree/disagree/modify (not that I can stop you
<wink>.)

Desirable aspects of an enhancement:

- Is fully backwards compatible (e.g. a new library module).
- Speeds Python in some significant way (e.g. xreadlines).
- Makes Python somehow easier to learn and/or use (e.g. unifying long integers
and integers).
- Removes warts (e.g. statically nested scoping.)  (However, one doubts that any
number of __future__ statments can ever make Python wart-free <wink>.)
- Generalizes some principle which already appears in Python in special-case
form (e.g. generators/iterators generalize xrange and xreadlines, I think?.)
- Embody Tim's "Python Zen" principles.

Undesired, but tolerable aspects:

- Not fully backwards compatible, but has a reasonable transition path via a
__future__ statement.
- Result in feature/code/test/doc bloat (which any new feature does, actually.)
- Caters to a special purpose or special application area.

Intolerable aspects:

- Incompatible, with no transition path.
- Slows Python in any way.
- Core changes that can be done equally well in Python.
- Makes small changes around the edges.  (Perhaps any small change of interest
has already been incorporated by now.)

Considering all this, I conclude:

- Library changes are preferable to core changes because they don't slow or
bloat the core.
- Adding libaries is preferable to changing old libraries because there are no
compatibility issues, and because that doesn't make Python books obsolete.
- New library modules will have to provide a significant "batteries included"
benefit to justify the bloat they cause in terms of code, tests, and docs. 
Therefore, they will have to solve some sort of general problem not previously
solved by the standard library.
- __future__ things are tolerable if they remove a wart.  (However, one
continues to doubt that any number of __future__ statments can ever make Python
wart-free <wink>.)
- Most changes to the core will therefore use a __future__ statement.

admittedly-not-as-psychic-as-tim-(nor-particularly
   -good-at-reading-tea-leaves-<wink>)-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Mon Aug  6 09:54:38 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 08:54:38 -0500
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <3B6C4108.F2D51223@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <jtg0b5guox.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> > Of course there are free various tools that do these sorts of things
> > out there, but they don't exactly play well together, if at all.  I
> > have ideas on how communication should work, and though I have avoided
> > the XML kool-aid up to now, I'm willing to concede XML-RPC might be
> > useful here.
> 
> XML is not kool-aid, it's an elixir: "good for what ails ye'" :-)

        Oh boy.  I think you've been mainlining the XML kool-aid. 

> You are describing a system in which, I believe, XML is well 
> suited to play a role.  Its primary advantage is as a standard for
> inter-application communication, which is a problem at the heart
> of your situation.  

        I'll agree with this in principle.  There's still the very,
very serious question about how you get applications to agree on what
exactly to talk about and how.  XML is convenient, but you still have
to work with what the AI people call an "ontology" and this must be
designed carefully when dealing with more than a handful of tools.

        Think for a moment about the tendency of people and companies
writing software to invent brave, new terminology to describe the same
old problems and it should start to be clear what a serious problem
this is.  I can easily write XML to describe a Whatsit but unless all
my programs agree what a Whatsit *is* (and doesn't AIX call it a
Whoosit?) and what sort of things you can say about it, you've merely
deferred the problem.

> I would start by making the decision to standardize on XML 
> as a representation for *all* your various data sources and
> sinks, whether that means storing the data in raw XML, or 
> just providing converters to change to or from XML so you
> can continue to work with your existing formats until the
> process is "complete" (whatever that means). 

        I simply refuse to edit XML by hand.  XML is simply a more
verbose assembly language.  No one should have to edit that mess, any
more than the average sysadmin should have to edit a sendmail config
file... that's why M4 exists.  I'll never use a tool which requires me
to fiddle with raw XML.  It's a waste of my time and I refuse to run
the risk of getting repetitive-stress injury just to use some
over-hyped technology.  Ooh.  I'm ranting now...

        I'll stick with the converters idea for now.

> Once this step is accomplished, you could focus on specific
> components or subsystems, one at a time.  Take the worst
> problems and rewrite them as desired.  Use Python and its
> XML support to smooth over existing rough areas.  Use it
> to glue in (cheap) tools which can serve your purpose in
> other areas, Python-based or not.  Migrate to using a web
> interface for all your front-end needs, whether accepting
> data input from you or users, or generating reports.  

        I was with you up to the web interface.  I don't know about
you, but *this* sysadmin breaks out in hives at the idea of putting
system control and configuration behind a web server... by definition
a public service.

> Over time you will find you gradually eliminate the last
> traces of entire technologies in your system.

        Bwaa-haaaahaaa-haaaa!

        Um.  *giggle*  Sorry.

        Show me a single site that has ever accomplished this.  I
forget which LISA conferece it was, but R?my Evard gave a talk once
showing that once a site has settled into a configuration management
system, they *don't change* it significantly.  He questioned about a
dozen sites and summarized the data.  (I just checked... that talk
isn't on his web site.)

        I start with the assumption that irritating by necessary old
junk will always exists.  No one has time to write replacements for
everything. 

> This exercise in Utopythian thinking brought to 
> you by the letters X, M and L. :-)

        Man, you need help.  :)

> > William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
> > annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
> > Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org
> 
> Do vi ankorau komprenas la avantaghojn de interlingvoj, 
> kiel XML, chu ne?  Ne necesas, ke mi konvinku vin. :)

        XML ne estas interlingvo, sed estas inter-informilo.
Informajho estas nek scio nek lingvo.

-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 23:50:18 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:50:18 +1000
Subject: Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.5
Message-ID: <0108031350180B.14602@ike>

              Roundup 0.2.5 - an issue tracking system

*** This release fixes the setup.py module for python 2.0 users ***

Users should also note that the bsddb3 module currently has a bug that 
renders it non-functinal. The anydbm or bsddb back-ends should be used 
instead. See the release notes on the website or the CHANGES.txt distributed 
with the source for more information.

Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with 
command-line, web and e-mail interfaces. It is based on the winning design 
from Ka-Ping Yee in the Software Carpentry "Track" design competition.

Note: Ping is not responsible for this project. The contact for this project 
is richard at users.sourceforge.net.

Roundup manages a number of issues (with flexible properties such as
"description", "priority", and so on) and provides the ability to (a) submit
new issues, (b) find and edit existing issues, and (c) discuss issues with
other participants. The system will facilitate communication among the
participants by managing discussions and notifying interested parties when
issues are edited. One of the major design goals for Roundup that it be 
simple to get going. Roundup is therefore usable "out of the box" with any 
python 2.0+ installation. It doesn't even need to be "installed" to be 
operational, though a disutils-based install script is provided.

It comes with two issue tracker templates and three database back-ends. 
Back-ends for relational databases are being developed.

Source is available at the website:
      http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 05:04:10 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:04:10 +0200
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com> <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com> <3b707aa4.591122937@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9kqvab01u4m@enews1.newsguy.com>

<xtian at hyperactive.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3b707aa4.591122937 at news.supernews.com...
    ...
> def cons(car, cdr):
>     return car, cdr
>
> x = cons(1, ())
> x -> (1, ())
> x = cons(2, x)
> x -> (2, (1, ()))
>
> (You'd have to do the proper cons(1, ()) to start it off - otherwise I
> guess it'd be a dotted pair.)

Uh, yes, cons does build a dotted-pair (and car and cdr access the
two halves of the pair) -- that's what they do in every LISP I know
(and () does look like a good representation for NIL) -- lists are
dotted-pairs of their head and their tail (with NIL being the cdr
at the end of the list).  Sorry for not pointing this out earlier!


> That's pretty spectacularly neat.
>
> Nice one, Alex.

Why, thanks -- it didn't look like anything special, and was meant
as more of a deadpan-humor quip (as in, "of COURSE you can build
LISP-ish linked lists, since you can build pairs and take them
apart again")...


Alex





From new_name at mit.edu  Fri Aug  3 17:36:43 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 17:36:43 -0400
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <etdu1zoddw4.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

import types

Class MyObject:
    Constructor1(self, number):
        pass
    Constructor2(self, string):
        pass

    def __init__(self, initarg):
        
        if type(initarg) == types.StringType:
            self.Constructor1(initarg)
        elif type(initarg) in (types.IntType, 
                               types.FloatType,
                               types.ComplexType):
            self.Constructor2(initarg)

HTH
Alex.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug  8 14:34:21 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:34:21 -0400
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <oq66byl85a.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>; from pinard@iro.umontreal.ca on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:27:13PM -0400
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com> <20010808134915.A1798@node0.opengeometry.ca> <oq66byl85a.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <20010808143421.A388@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:27:13PM -0400, Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> >     if (fname[1] in 'aeiou'):
>
> This looks more like C than like Python :-).  Rather write:
>     if fname[1] in 'aeiou':

True.  I was careful not to change too much from the original post.  I
didn't want to get my head bitten off by some Air Traffic trolls. ;-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 11:45:40 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:45:40 +0200
Subject: Regular Expression Help
References: <3B793BD7.1A48D776@isg.de>
Message-ID: <9lbh36027g5@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tino Lange" <tino.lange at isg.de> wrote in message
news:3B793BD7.1A48D776 at isg.de...
    ...
> I want to parse a continuos file, that contains messages surrounded by
> nonalphanumerical begin- and end-signs.
> (BEGIN sign 0x02, END sign 0x03)
>
> How can I parse this?
> A working perl-script would be
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> while(<>) { s/\x02/\n/g; s/\x03//g; print; }

Very fragile, it seems to me -- the \n within a
message are getting confused with the markers.

> pattern=re.compile('([0x02] | [0x03])')

This pattern matches any one of the ASCII characters:
    0
    x
    2
    3
although it's chosen a very peculiar way to specify
that:-).  Plus, it defines a group, so the splitter
itself would appear in the value from .split, which
is apparently not what you want.

> I could only split by "normal" characters as far as I saw in the
> documentation.
> Is this right?

No, you just have to use the \02 etc escapes to
specify special characters.  Try this split.py:

import re

samplestring='able\02baker\03charlie\02delta'
splitter = re.compile('[\02\03]')
print splitter.split(samplestring)

D:\py21>python spli.py
['able', 'baker', 'charlie', 'delta']

This looks like what you want, right?


Alex





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 05:31:28 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:31:28 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
References: <mailman.997950210.20473.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZNv3kLAwL5e7EwWn@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.997950210.20473.python-list at python.org>, Simon
Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> writes
>> From:        Tom Loredo [SMTP:loredo at astro.cornell.edu]
>> I like both of the quick references; thanks to both of you for all the
>> hard work to make a Pythoner's life easier!
> 
>Glad you like it, but most of the work is Chris Hoffman's and Richard
>Gruet's rather than mine.
>
>BTW, I have now posted the final version of the 2.1 PQR (baring someone
>pointing out a *huge* mistake). I'll start on the 2.2 version now.
>
>Cheers,
>Simon Brunning
>TriSystems Ltd.
>sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
>
Hey Simon, 


I just downloaded the html and although dark magenta and green are
mentioned as indicating change at the top I don't see any other
indications of it being used either in the source or on the screen.
-should have that beer soon-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Aug  7 17:46:01 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 17:46:01 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
In-Reply-To: <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <oqk80ffsrq.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Just van Rossum]

> But there has always been a nice symmetry between "if x in y" and
> "for x in y",

About that one, it always saddened me a little bit that I may not write:

        if x in 1, 2, 3:
	    pass

while I can write:

        for x in 1, 2, 3:
            pass

In the first, I write the parentheses so it gets accepted, but I would
prefer not using them.  It breaks some of the symmetry, in my opinion :-).

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Aug  3 13:09:14 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 13:09:14 -0400
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
References: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ur8utjcjp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

shezafd at yahoo.com (Daphna Shezaf) writes:

> I am a python enthusiast and have been programming around in python
> for sometime. I came up with the idea to use python for internal
> scripts we need in my company (for example: build scripts).
> That's nice (I think), but it will be hard to convince people that
> python interpreter should be installed on every machine around.
> Do you think it will be possible to install the interpreter on a
> single server, so that people will actually run their scripts on this
> server? Is it possible (and how), for the script to run a program on a
> different machine (We're using windows 2000 LAN)? Any other helpful
> hints?

It should be just fine if you make a Python installation on the
network and then have people refer to it via a network use or even
with a direct UNC.  The script will still execute locally, but it'll
be loading the interpreter and library modules from the network
location.

For the most transparency, all that needs to be done (and this can be
done by a wrapper script) is to include that location in the local
path (including the DLLs subdirectory of the installation unless you
move the DLLs out to the root).  Then stick your python##.dll into
that same directory as opposed to winnt\system32.

The only piece that I've had trouble doing this way is win32com
support since it does some strange things with its module definitions
(using the local registry) and has some dependency on some core DLLs
being in the system directory.  Or at least I haven't figured out how
to cleanly avoid that yet.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From lumbricus at gmx.net  Fri Aug 24 08:28:01 2001
From: lumbricus at gmx.net (Joerg Woelke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:28:01 +0200
Subject: simple ping program
References: <mailman.998553514.21024.python-list@python.org> <9m32mk0284o@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <h8h5m9.hca.ln@Laplace.localdomain>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> "noprianto" <opennopri at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.998553514.21024.python-list at python.org...
>> hello all,

Hello!

>>
>> Does anyone know how to make a very simple ping
>> program, with option to set the packet size....

> http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz

$ wget http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz
--14:26:55--  http://www.python.org:80/%7Ejeremy/ping.tar.gz
           => `ping.tar.gz'
Verbindungsaufbau zu www.python.org:80... verbunden!
HTTP Anforderung gesendet, warte auf Antwort... 404 Not Found
14:26:56 FEHLER 404: Not Found.

:-(

> Alex

Greetings J"o!

-- 
My interest is in the future because I am going to spend the rest of my
life there.


From walter at livinglogic.de  Fri Aug  3 09:00:30 2001
From: walter at livinglogic.de (Walter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:00:30 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6AA06E.7060408@livinglogic.de>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>  if x in list: ...
>>>
>>>looks a lot more confusing.  I may withdraw this idea.
>>>
>>I'd think again.  The problem with isinstance and issubclass is that I
>>can never remember the order of the arguments.  Something
>>non-symmetric like "x in type" is much clearer to me, to read and to
>>write.
>>
> 
> Yes, it's clearer, but it leads to hypergeneralization (dare I ever
> use that word again? :-).
> 
> To remember isinstance() and isclass(), try to make a sentence out of
> it, like isinstance(x, y) <==> x is instance [of] y.

This would even be clearer, if isinstance and issubclass would be 
methods of object and type respectively, i.e.
   x.isinstance(y) or x.isinstanceof(y) or x.isa(y)
and
   c1.issubclass(c2)

Why invent new syntax?
-- 
Walter D?rwald ? LivingLogic AG, Bayreuth/Germany ? www.livinglogic.de



From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Fri Aug 10 12:01:42 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:01:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: xmldiff-0.2
Message-ID: <slrn9n81b6.1m1.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

We have just released xmldiff 0.2

Xmldiff is a Python tool that figures out the differences between two
similar XML files, in the same way the diff utility does for text files. 

This new release features some bugfixes, improvements in the generated
output, and huge performance improvement. 

Please visit http://www.logilab.org/xmldiff/ for more information.

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug 23 19:23:56 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:23:56 GMT
Subject: Pythonwin VSS Integration
References: <3b849e90.248962234@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <3B85912A.8060800@ActiveState.com>

Gerson Kurz wrote:
> Where can you do checkins with the VSS integration of Pythonwin? Only
> checkouts seem to be supported. 
> 

Only checkouts are supported.

Mark.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 13:53:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:53:01 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lgt9j011q1@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lh84t01p8q@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:9lgt9j011q1 at enews4.newsguy.com...

A followup to myself to point out one little thing...:

> in the Python community!-)  I've submitted this as a bug to
> sourceforge, as I see you hadn't done that.

...and now (less than an hour later than I submitted it) it's been
fixed (in the CVS -- you can easily get xdrlib 1.13 if you want,
and retrofit it on any older Python, it should work just fine), in
a simpler and more effective way than I had suggested (i.e.,
by using cStringIO or StringIO to do the accumulation -- StringIO
already has all the needed mechanisms, in pure Python, and
cStringIO is a faster implementation as a C extension).

Such speed in fixing performance-bugs may also be a clear
symptom of a product that is not yet mature, of course:-).


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 16:39:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:39:43 -0400
Subject: Real.py  where is it?
In-Reply-To: <tolaqbiepg70fb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFLLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Maan M. Hamze]
> All web links to this module are broken.  Where can I find it?

This has sure become a popular module lately!  See c.l.py last week for
threads about the fate of the old contrib directory.

In the case of Jurgen's module, Keith Briggs saved a copy, linked to from:

    http://www.btexact.com/people/briggsk2/XR.html

Look for "python code by Jurjen N.E. Bos".




From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Mon Aug 27 15:24:13 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:24:13 -0400
Subject: enhancing slicing
In-Reply-To: <3B8A970B.FEBA62DB@home.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLIEDJCFAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

You could wrap the list in a class that would do this.  I don't know whether
it is a bug but if you do something like this in python:

>>> l=MyListClass()
>>> print l[2,3,4]

Then l.__getitem__ will be called with a tuple (not an integer!) as its sole
argument and from that you could implement what you suggest.

Not quite as good as what you wanted but at least it can be done now.

Rich


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Chris Barker
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 2:53 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: enhancing slicing
>
>
> "Juan Vali?o" wrote:
>
> > My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
> > v[5 # 2]
> > Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]
>
> Frankly, I think this really is just unneccesary sugar(not that I don't
> like sugar, mind you!). What I really would like, and think would be a
> major leap forward, would be to allow sequence indexing:
>
> indexes = [1,4,5,7]
>
> l = ['a','b,'c','d','e','f','g','h']
>
> l[indexes] == ['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']
>
>
> Now you have do do something like:
>
> >>> l2 = []
> >>> for i in indexes:
> ...     l2.append(l[i])
> ...
> >>> l2
> ['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']
>
> or with a list comprehension:
>
> >>> [l[i] for i in range(len(l)) if (i in indexes)]
> ['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']
>
> Both of which are far more wordy and confusing than my suggestion.
>
> By the way you can sort of do this with Numeric:
> >>> from Numeric import take
> >>> take(l,indexes)
> array([b, e, f, h],'c')
>
> but that's still kind of klunky.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Christopher Barker,
> Ph.D.
> ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
> http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
>                                    ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
> Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
> Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------
> Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From marklists at mceahern.com  Fri Aug 10 22:24:15 2001
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 02:24:15 GMT
Subject: guid
Message-ID: <jH0d7.154776$%a.6729348@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>

Has anybody implemented a platform neutral way of generating unique ids (ala
the COM guid) in Python?

I found this tidbit that looks promising:

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2000-March/003725.html

thanks,

// mark




From howard at eegsoftware.com  Fri Aug 24 14:39:21 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:39:21 GMT
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
References: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <3B869F57.425C4B71@eegsoftware.com>

Fixed....sort of.

Since I wanted to capture both stderr and stdout, Mark's exception method
wouldn't work for me.  In my C main initialization, I pre-imported my
DebugWin class and redefined sys.stderr and sys.stdout.  It seems that DOES
work if it all finishes ok before I try loading/running a separate file.

I'll post the next problem separately.....now I get failures trying to
import win32api (of course I AM in a debug state and they are not...).

Thanks for the ideas.

Howard

Howard Lightstone wrote:

> OK, I made up a Python class/methods to take over stderr/stdout when
> running Pythonw applications and display them in a Tkinter window.
> Works slick.
>
> However, this DOESN'T work when embedding Python since pythonrun.c still
> refers to stdout/stderr directly...which Windows doesn't have set to
> anything useful.
>
> How does one reroute/catch these errors?  Unfortunately, the only thing
> I can think of  involves changing pythonrun.c to use the 'objects'
> attached to sys.stdout and sys.stderr so they COULD be rerouted.
>
> It seems to me someone on this list commented on catching these embedded
> errors but I can't seem to find it.
>
> Any help?
>
> Thanks



From norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu  Wed Aug 22 17:42:09 2001
From: norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu (Norm Wood)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:42:09 -0700
Subject: Finding modules in subdirectories of sys.path
Message-ID: <3b841921@news.ColoState.EDU>

Hi,

I've installed the NumPy extensions and Scientific Python package into
subdirectories of my home directory:

/home/me/lib/python2.0/Numeric
/home/me/lib/python2.0/Scientific


The Scientific directory contains a number of subdirectories (Physics,
Statistics, etc.).  It appears that, in order to import modules from
these subdirectories, each subdirectory has to be listed explicitly
in sys.path.  Otherwise, I get an import error.

Is it possible to cause python to search recursively through the
directories rooted at /home/me/lib/python2.0?  Or is it possible
to place some sort of index in /home/me/lib/python2.0 so that python
can locate the modules within the subdirectories without explicitly
listing each subdirectory in sys.path?

Thanks,

Norm Wood

-- 
Norm Wood

     Department of Atmospheric Science
     Colorado State University
     norm at atmos.colostate.edu
     phone:  970-491-3334


From fett at tradersdata.com  Wed Aug  8 21:41:43 2001
From: fett at tradersdata.com (fett at tradersdata.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:41:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Probably a stupid newbie question....i got to ask
In-Reply-To: <9ksatp010b6@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <200108090141.f791fkl23533@vela.tradersdata.com>

How do you use string.atoi to convert a variable integer to a string?
I have tied theese different ways...
daverse = string.atoi(daverse)
daverse = string.atoi(), daverse
daverse = string.atoi("daverse")

...and i cannot find an answer in my Python.




From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 05:38:42 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 09:38:42 GMT
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org> <1827265.sRUnXabflU@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nhsd2.glf.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:34:49 +0200, Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> pisze:

> I usually use (a, b, c) - means spaces only after the commas.
> 
> In C / Java, I use spaces after if (), while () etc., but don't
> put one after a function().

I put a space before parens of a function call if there are arguments
inside, and don't put it if these are empty ().

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Aug  2 18:58:55 2001
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 22:58:55 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <9kchf3$meu$1@news.btv.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <3B69D920.D87C601F@tundraware.com>

Peter Mayne wrote:
<SNIP>

> This seems to be the core of your argument, but I don't see this at all. I
> gather there aren't too many people here who think that one language, even
> Python, is good for everything. Surely the best place to abstract a system
> is in the libraries and the run-time.

No, I don't think Python is good for *everything*.  Recall that I am
describing middleware in the context of its use as an enabler for
*applications logic*.  My central argument is this (and perhaps I
should have made it clearer, but is *was* 4:30am when I wrote this ;):

1) Modern systems allow a far greater and far more complete level of 
   abstraction (away from the underlying infrastructure) than ever
   before because "throwing hardware/memory/bandwidth at the problem"
   is now economically rational.

2) This abstraction layer or 'middleware' needs to all (or most) of
   The Things Applications Need To Do in a consistently packaged
   and deployed manner.

3) Python qualifies here, not because of the language itself, per se,
   but because of the "Batteries Included" standardization of modules
   packaged with each release.

4) Python (and Perl) are the only rational choices here (at the moment)
   because Java, C#, VB, are under *vendor control* which immediately
   biases how they will abstract the application away from the
   infrastructure.  It is in neither Microsoft or Sun's interests to
   create integration harnesses which make it easy to jump back and 
   forth from, say, J2EE to .NET.

Whether the enabling is literally "in the language" or in its libraries
is a fine point of implementation.  The larger point is that the 
language *as deployed* has this high level of integration and abstraction
to offer applications developers.


> 
> .Net is the most recent popular example of this. Given the library support,
> it doesn't matter what language you use, and you can therefore use the best
> language for the task at hand. With .Net, you can use Fortran for the
> numeric modules, COBOL for the "traditional" database heavy lifting modules,
> and Python.Net to tie those modules together. (Yes, all three of those are
> or will be available for .Net.) You can even subclass your Fortran classes
> using Eiffel.Net, and subclass those with COBOL, whereas CPython can only be
> subclassed by, or from, more CPython. (Or C extensions, which is probably
> beyond the scope of this epistle.) Can someone please point out why being
> restricted to CPython is better here?

Because the CLR and JITs which are part of .NET force you into a Win32
operational runtime.  Marrying your vendor is bad.  Marrying their operating
system for life is worse - just ask all the companies who are now being
forced to pay outrageous fees to Microsoft to license additional copies
of their backleveled products like Win95 (because the company apps are not Win98
compatible and are so widely deployed that updating 100,000+ users to
98/ME/2000 Pro is not feasible).  This is not a shot a Microsoft, BTW,
this behavior is well established among all the major vendors like
IBM, Sun, HP, and so on.  They sell you first one cheap, and once you're
addicted, charge through the nose forever.

> 
> Note that .Net is *not* offering a core language, but a Common Language
> Runtime (CLR) upon which you can layer any language you like, and all of the
> languages will interact happily with each other. (I'm not recommending .Net
> in this post, just using it as a currently widely known example. Nor am I
> arguing that Microsoft may or may not be leading you up a garden path - I'm
> just using it as a technical example.)

.NET is an *architecture*, it is not yet an implementation. Nothing from
Microsoft indicates *any* interest on their part on realizing .NET on
anything other than Win32 and Win64 systems.  .NET is NOT vendor neutral
(and speaking as a MS stockholder, it should not be vendor neutral, it
should be a strategic hammer for Microsoft).

> 
> Python may be a middleware language in the sense that it is a language
> suitable for many things that it is suitable for (!), but it is not
> necessarily suitable for interfacing with other middleware. Another .Net
> example: you can write a C# (or VB, or whatever other language you feel like
> using) WebServer class, run the right utility on it, or just point your
> browser at it, and out pops the SDL for that class. Feed that SDL into
> another utility, and out pops a SOAP client stub: instant language
> independent client/server code. The run-time transparently handles
> SOAP/HTTP/SSL/et al, so you get exactly the same middleware no matter what
> language you started with. How easy is it to do this with CPython (as
> opposed to Python.Net, obviously 8-)?


There's no question that Microsoft is positioning .NET as middleware for
integrating the front-, back-, and middle- of every Enterprise.  Your example
illustrates, at least in principle, its technical virtue.  But,
having been a tech exec, lemme tell you, anyone who goes down this
road exclusively will really regret it.  Middleware owned by the OS and systems
vendor is a Trojan Horse for account control.  As I said in the original
essay (in so many words, anyway) - the distribution topology and 'glue'
that binds a distributed enterprise together, *must* be isolated from
the underlying vendor architectures or you will forever have to
play "Mother May I" with Balmer, McNealy, Gerstner, Ellison, et all -
and they don't play nice.

> 
<SNIP>
> 
> > But, Python has one, very important commercial advantage.  It's
> > not owned by a vendor.
> 
> An advantage over Microsoft and Sun, maybe, but there are other languages
> that aren't owned by a vendor either. Whether you and I prefer a language
> that we can actually read, rather than one that looks like modem line noise,
> doesn't seem (so far) to be a commercial ad
> Much of the epistle could as easily apply to Perl rather than Python, and
> the rest could be summed up as "I like Python because of the usual reasons".
> Not that there's anything wrong with that. 8-)
> 


Remember, this is a multipart argument:

Implentation Completeness +
Vendor Neutrality +
Fitness For Applications Needs +
Multi-Platform +
Ease Of Coding +
Ease Of Maintenance +
Fitness For Large Applications Development

= "Applications Middleware"

I specifically avoided getting into a Python vs (Perl, Eiffel, ML, ...)
argument because that's pointless.  I will claim this, though -
of the extant candidates language implementions/packagings,
only Python meets the *all* the critera above.  Java and C# belong to
vendors.  Perl is not as completely packaged as Python, is not as productive
to code in, and is harder to maintain. C is unfit for large applications
programs.  C++ is unfit for everything ;)  Currently, the only thing that
bodes badly for Python is its performance, but this can be solved by
writing C subroutines and in any case, I expect we'll see very good
Python native code compilers (or JITs)  not too long from now.


> Some trivia...
> 
> >
> > Even the original 'sockets' implementation at Berkeley
> > had this in mind - the code has provision (never well/completely
> > implemented) for protocols other than AF_UNIX and AF_INET.  In
> > principle, we should have seen AF_SNA...
> 
> Well, AF_DECnet certainly exists, and I have no reason to believe that it
> wasn't well implemented.

That's interesting - I wonder how many installations actually still use this
today...

> 
> > But, for most (systems) things, 'C' is a fine choice.  I've done
> everything
> > from real-time kernel work to OS utilities in 'C'.
> 
> A fine choice compared to what? There seems to be an on-going misconception
> that a "low-level" language such as C is required to do "system" things. At
> least one OS has been written in Modula-2, for instance. The design of VMS
> means that you can write system code in any language you like (MONITOR was
> written in PL/I, and the DEC Pascal variant was very nice for doing system
> stuff), or indeed, any number of languages in a single executable.
> 
> Although arguably lower-level than C, I would choose BLISS (typeless, no
> implicit derefencing so no distinction between lvalues and rvalues, an
> integrated macro facility that puts the C preprocessor to shame) over C
> every time. Sadly, there isn't the choice these days.
> 
> Sadly again, popularity ("dominance") and excellence seem to be inversely
> related, but I don't need to say that in this newsgroup. 8-)


But "fitness" for a task isn't just about the technology details.  It's
much moreso about commercial viability (which is at the heart of my Python
pitch).  'C' won the day because of the relative ease of getting it on to
new machine architectures, thereby creating a growing pool of 'C' programmers.
Companies do what works, not necessarily what is technically optimal.
Languages like PL/I and BLISS, no matter how elegant technically, failed
to garner the *wide* commercial adoption needed for dominance (even though
both DEC and IBM promoted PL/I heartily). 

> > - Their [Windows] OS core is so UI centric, it is doubtful that it can
> easily
> >   really make the jump to being a serious back-room large-scale
> >   contender.
> 
> No. It has been noted that the Windows NT core is remarkably like VMS, and
> serious, back-room, and large-scale are all phrases that have been applied
> to VMS. (It has also been noted that "remarkably" may be a remarkable
> understatement here. 8-) What *is* UI centric is the Win32 API which sits on
> top of the core, and this may or may not be scaleable.

Yes, Cutler brought all his Old Tricks with him from DEC to MS.  And, yes,
Win32 should have been an enterprise class OS.  But, no, its not, because Gates was
(and is, so far as I can determine sitting here in the Peanut Gallery) desktop 
and end-user centric in his world-view.  The Enterprise people at MS have been 
fighting for almost a decade to get the Powers That Be to accept the 
world as heterogeneous and that the back room is very different than the 
desktop in many big ways.  

Instead, MS conciously chose to integrate the UI crap into the kernel of NT
to get the thing to perform even moderately well.  Cutler fought this tooth 
and nail with Gates and lost the battle when Gates more-or-less forced it
to be done (see "Showstopper" by Zachary for some of the details).  Today's
Win32 systems blur the line considerably between what is 'kernel' and what is
'UI' support.

Now, all of a sudden, they've got Enterprise Religion and Win32 is morphing
into an "Enterprise Class Operating System", with .NET as the integration
harness.  I don't blame them for trying to market their way out of the
situation they're in (the DOJ pointing guns at their head for actually being
successful, the sea-change brought upon them by the Internet, the declining
role of PCs, the Linux/Open Source threat, the ascendent role of PDAs...),
 but Win2K as an enterprise platform... I don't buy it, but I guess I'm 
willing to have it proven to me.

In the mean time write in Python, C, and Perl as needed, define and control
your own enterprise architectures, and make the vendors beg for your business...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com


From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Aug 22 00:58:33 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:58:33 -0700
Subject: Pythonwin does not run on my machine 
In-Reply-To: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010822025540Z-52663@emi1.EMI>
Message-ID: <000b01c12ac7$18e9ab70$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

> Thanks a lot for your respond , where can I find the Pythonwin.exe ;
> I had a good look on www.Python.org but I can not find

No problem. You can get Pythonwin from:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/Extensions/Win32
all

One thing that you might want to consider is just downloading
ActivePython:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython

ActivePython has a nice installer which includes core Python, the Python
Win32 extensions, Pythonwin, a network module installation system and
extensive documentation.

Cheers,
Brian




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 21 18:16:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:16:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Tkinter on IRIX and Linux
In-Reply-To: <3B830022.F1042BBD@zikai.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211814450.23498-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Junjun Mao wrote:

> Thanks, Heiko,
>
> I could run "wish", and it pop up a window. If this suggested an installed
> tkinter and tcl, where  was the  "_tkinter" module?
>
> However, I can run "wish" on a machine without Python.
> A little confused...
>
> Junjun

wish is a part of Tcl. Tk is the graphical tookit for Tcl. tkinter is a Python
module that talks to Tk. Tk and tkinter are not the same thing. Tk is a part
of Tcl/Tk, and tkinter is a module for Python.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From malcolm at commsecure.com.au  Sat Aug 25 03:54:59 2001
From: malcolm at commsecure.com.au (Malcolm Tredinnick)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:54:59 +0800
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
In-Reply-To: <3B872120.656C698E@psychosis.com>; from dcinege@psychosis.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:53:04PM -0400
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242315560.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net> <3B872120.656C698E@psychosis.com>
Message-ID: <20010825155459.B8887@csport07.commsecure.com.au>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:53:04PM -0400, Dave Cinege wrote:
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Dave Cinege wrote:
> > > This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
> > > As you might have guessed this allows one to change to absolute
> > > argv values of the python process itself. (It is of great wonder
> > > to me why this functionality is not already available...)
> > 
> > Instead of making a whole new function for this, why not add write
> > capability to sys.argv?
> 
> Why I didn't do this:
  
[...snip...]
> 3) It's not yet exactly clear (to me) to what extent you can alter argv
> and not impeed portability. This is probably reason enough to segregate this
> functionality. (On linux it stacks argv elements concurrently in memory and
> it's safe to use that total space anyway you want. Who knows
> how other OS's deal with it...)

Not much, is the short answer. Jamie Zawinski has told me that when
Netscape was trying to do this for their browser, there wasn't really a
portable way of altering the name that appeared in 'ps' short of execing
a new process (and this was only across Unix variants).

So your solution works on Linux, but other Unix variants will have a
"mileage may vary" problem. :)

Malcolm

-- 
Honk if you love peace and quiet.



From dbt at meat.net  Fri Aug 31 20:27:22 2001
From: dbt at meat.net (David B Terrell)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 00:27:22 -0000
Subject: patch for distribution getpass.py
Message-ID: <slrn9p0arc.cae.dbt@pianosa.catch22.org>

getpass (on unix anyway) should print the prompt to stderr or better
yet /dev/tty (I was too lazy to implement that one) and get the
prompt from /dev/tty.  This way you can use redirection of stdin or
stdout but still prompt the user for password input.

--- getpass.py.orig	Tue Feb 27 13:23:31 2001
+++ getpass.py	Fri Aug 31 17:14:49 2001
@@ -37,7 +37,7 @@
     finally:
         termios.tcsetattr(fd, termios.TCSADRAIN, old)
 
-    sys.stdout.write('\n')
+    sys.stderr.write('\n')
     return passwd
 
 
@@ -73,7 +73,7 @@
     import sys
     prompt = str(prompt)
     if prompt:
-        sys.stdout.write(prompt)
+        sys.stderr.write(prompt)
     line = sys.stdin.readline()
     if not line:
         raise EOFError


-- 
David Terrell            | "Instead of plodding through the equivalent of
Prime Minister, NebCorp  | literary Xanax, the pregeeks go for sci-fi and
dbt at meat.net             | fantasy:  LSD in book form." - Benjy Feen,
http://wwn.nebcorp.com   | http://www.monkeybagel.com/ "Origins of Sysadmins"


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Thu Aug 23 03:38:27 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:38:27 +0200
Subject: know if someone ping me
References: <mailman.998546434.927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jtb2m9.v13.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:59:17 -0700 (PDT), noprianto <opennopri at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>How do i know if someone ping my system ?

Hi "noprianto"!

This is a strange question for comp.lang.python.

Python has no concept of a ping, but this isn't comp.lang.c++ but
comp.lang.python, so I am supposed to be more friendly ;-)

I've lost my crystal ball, so I can't know which operating system you want a
solution for.

I'll just assume that you use Linux or *BSD. These OS have something called
netfilter/ipchains/... You can configure these to log ICMP (ping) requests to
the syslog. With a Python script, you could continuously read from the log file
and do whatever pleases you if you find an ICMP request.

Gerhard

PS: It's considered nice to use a realname on Usenet.

PPS: Could it be that a cracker group called "Python" was recently founded.
I've seen some strange posts here recently ...
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From donod at home.com  Sun Aug 26 20:12:23 2001
From: donod at home.com (Don O'Donnell)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:12:23 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998799639.28464.python-list@python.org> <PL1i7.138061$EP6.38219042@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8990FA.E3CDA41D@home.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
>   Logical, organized
> thinking is foreign to some people.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy

True, but such people shouldn't be programming, in any language.

-Don


From timothyrandolph at NoSpamPleaseyahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 22:43:34 2001
From: timothyrandolph at NoSpamPleaseyahoo.com (Tim Randolph)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 02:43:34 GMT
Subject: Manila Theme Format
References: <6e98614f.0108091758.353b5ce1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kvhom$1d9@dispatch.concentric.net>

Whoa!  Very [OT]

But since you asked...

Try joining the list-serve at
http://lists.userland.com/mailman/listinfo/manila-newbies

Then post the question there.

Alternately, you could sign up and post a question on Userland's web
bulletin board at:

http://manilanewbies.userland.com/discuss/

I am sure that you will get more help there than here.  Good luck.

wishing-Frontier-embedded-python-ly yr's,

Tim

"Scott Reynen" <scott at randomchaos.com> wrote in message
news:<6e98614f.0108091758.353b5ce1 at posting.google.com>...
> forgive me (and please point me to somewhere better) if this is not a
> good place to be asking this, but this is the only group i've been
> able to find with any references to userland's manila. so my question
> is this:
>
> does anyone have any information, or can anyone point me to any
> information, about the format of manila theme files? i've been assured
> by dave winer himself that it is an open and documented format, but
> i've been able to find absolutely no documentation about it.
>
> thanks a lot,
> scott.
"Scott Reynen" <scott at randomchaos.com> wrote in message
news:6e98614f.0108091758.353b5ce1 at posting.google.com...
> forgive me (and please point me to somewhere better) if this is not a
> good place to be asking this, but this is the only group i've been
> able to find with any references to userland's manila. so my question
> is this:
>
> does anyone have any information, or can anyone point me to any
> information, about the format of manila theme files? i've been assured
> by dave winer himself that it is an open and documented format, but
> i've been able to find absolutely no documentation about it.
>
> thanks a lot,
> scott.




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 28 01:39:54 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:39:54 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <15242.31823.671530.372011@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108280937360.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

Continuing with my Python upgrade...

> 
>     Roman> How people compile Python 2.1.1 from src.rpm on not-so-ancient
>     Roman> RedHat 6.2 (without tricks)???
> 
> Checked into CVS is a slight modification of setup.py that may help you
> compile on a system with potentially multiple versions of libdb.  Attached
> is a context diff.  Feedback on whether or not this helps people would be
> appreciated.

That is what setup.py gives when trying it:

$ python setup.py --help
  File "setup.py", line 57
    extlist = [ext for ext in extlist if ext.name == modname]
                     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

List comprehensions are cool, but are they really needed in 
files like setup.py ???
 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From deblnonospammy at theworld.com  Wed Aug 15 19:23:08 2001
From: deblnonospammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:23:08 GMT
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <3B7B0480.7E5FC2FB@theworld.com>

'is' determines if two object refer to the same memory.  For example:
>>> a='+='
>>> b='+='
>>> a is b
0
>>> c=a
>>> a is c
1
>>> 


Vassilis Virvilis wrote:
> 
> I am using python 2.1 in Redhat Linux.
> Do you find anything irrational to the following session?
> >>> a='+='
> >>> a is a
> 1
> >>> a is '+='
> 0
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>> a = 'dsd'
> >>> a is 'dsd'
> 1
> >>> '+=' is '+='
> 1
> >>>
> 
> I apologize if this has been brought to the attention of this group before.
> Maybe I did misunderstand the use of the 'is' operator, but then how it is
> supposed to work?
> 
>         .Bill


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:36:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:36:25 +0200
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9ligoo0s2g@enews3.newsguy.com> <9lin1v$d57$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9ljh530253k@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:9lin1v$d57$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
    ...
> Aren't input parameters INCREF'd on the function call into C?  I can't

Nope: if the C code wants to keep hold of them it needs to incref
them itself (only while the specific Python-called C function itself is
executing is the object guaranteed not to go away).

> imagine it'd be very cool to have something like:
>
> a = "hello there!"
> fn(a)
> print a
> (core dump)

Could happen, if fn decref'd a by more than it addref'd.


> >> http://chabry.caltech.edu/~t/transfer/zlibmodule.c
> >
> >I get a 404 on this:
>
> fixed.  The file that is there contains my latest changes, which I have
> just submitted as a patch (taking out the unnecessary cruft & fixing up
> the comments to reflect my new understanding of Python strings... ;)

Works now, thanks.  Will examine it later.


Alex





From oliphant at ee.byu.edu  Wed Aug 15 16:28:03 2001
From: oliphant at ee.byu.edu (Travis Oliphant)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:28:03 -0600
Subject: [Q] Python and math
In-Reply-To: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
References: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108151427070.18301-100000@sugar.ee.byu.edu>


On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Young-Jin Lee wrote:

> Hi, I'm wondering if there's a open source python code for solving ODE
> (ordinary differential equations)?
> I want to convert my Java application into Python, but I'm not sure if there
> is a ODE solver written and available in Python.
>
> Thanks in advance.

Go to www.scipy.org

and get Scientific Python which has an ODE solver in the integrate
sub-package.

After installation, do

>>> from scipy import *
>>> help(integrate.odeint)

to get some help on how to use the integrator.

-Travis Oliphant




From nas at python.ca  Sun Aug  5 13:44:55 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:44:55 -0700
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
In-Reply-To: <013901c11da5$09c688e0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>; from kseehof@neuralintegrator.com on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 04:52:00AM -0700
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051130350.764-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <013901c11da5$09c688e0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20010805104455.A27799@glacier.fnational.com>

Ken Seehof wrote:
> While your use of generators is clever, I'm not sure what, if anything
> generators are actually buying you here.
> 
> What's wrong with:
> 
> import calendar, string
> def calt(year, month):
>     month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
>     scal = ''
>     scal += "<B>%s.%s</B>" % (month, year)
>     scal += "<TABLE BORDER=1>"
>     for week in month_cal:
>       scal += "\n<TR>"
>       for day in week:
>         scal += "<TD>%s</TD>" % (day or "&nbsp;")
>       scal += "</TR>"
>     scal += "</TABLE>"
>     return scal

I like PTL for this sort of thing:

 import calendar, string
 def calt(year, month):
     month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
     "<B>%s.%s</B>" % (month, year)
     "<TABLE BORDER=1>"
     for week in month_cal:
       "\n<TR>"
       for day in week:
         "<TD>%s</TD>" % (day or "&nbsp;")
       "</TR>"
     "</TABLE>"

Cheers,

  Neil



From hohage at muenster.de  Tue Aug 14 09:30:44 2001
From: hohage at muenster.de (hohage)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:30:44 +0100
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
Message-ID: <3B78CAC8@muepubb>

Hello,
"Einf?hrung in Python" is a O'Reilly - book.
A typical!! If you have a programming-background it' s great (funny + brainy 
<- if this word exists).
Otherwise you get frustrated  with comparisons Python and C++.
"Jetzt lerne ich Python" from Markt+Technik I didn't like at all! It's too 
weird (especially the examples).
The same goes to the L?wis-book(it's not weird but I don't like the style)
I'd suggest you to read the Python-Tutorial or if you have a programming 
background "Dive into Python" (can be downloaded but it exists only in 
english)
"Dive into Python" is great.
Bye

>===== Original Message From "Carsten Schr?der" 
<carsten.schroeder at hoergeraete-schroeder.de> =====
>Hello!
>
>May anybody please tell me which GERMAN book suits best for a python
>beginner?
>
>Thx Carsten
>
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

------------
<sven hohage>
<applikationsentwickler>
------------




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  8 20:22:58 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:22:58 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B71D7E2.7EEAF170@engcorp.com>

Jeremy Jones wrote:
> 
> I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
> set of data.  [...]  By hierarchical,
> I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
> and that the parents and children should be aware of
> one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
> the parent should be aware of its children and
> children should be aware of their parents).  By
> dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
> very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
> in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
> of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
> variable and will be defined at run time.  
[...]

I don't think I got a clear enough idea from your 
posting to know what it is you really want (i.e. 
you could describe what *purpose* you have in mind, 
rather than describing a set of features you think
you need).

Nevertheless, a lot of what you refer to above
seems to be provided by the Document Object Model
(DOM) concept available effectively universally
for in-memory manipulation of XML data.  Since
XML (at least in a DOM) seems to provide the 
basic features you describe above, maybe it could
in some way help you...  ??

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug  9 04:25:50 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 08:25:50 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9n4g4o.8qn.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9n4i8b.acv.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

9 Aug 2001 07:49:44 GMT, Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> pisze:

> - If an operation can be written as either returning a result
>   or storing it somewhere, it's generally better to return it.
>   I.e. queries should not be unnecessarily expressed as commands.
>   Separate gathering inputs, processing, and using outputs.

Maybe I'm biased by digging in a compiler, but I would also say:

Even invent an explicit representation of intermediate form of
the processed data. Don't try to do all stages at once. Partition
processing wrt. stages, not just wrt. kinds of data (as OO says).

It will be easier to add a rewriting stage in the middle, change
implementation of a stage, replace final processing to use the output
differently, replace initial processing to take inputs from a different
source, print intermediate data for debugging.

In the program I wrote for producing <http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/vi-001.gif>
I recently added an option to output TeX source (for a suitable
font) instead of rendering the bitmap myself. One of intermediate
representations was very suitable for translation to TeX commands.
I just plugged a different sequence of stages:
  - lexical analysis of input - as for bitmap rendering,
  - grouping consonants - as for bitmap rendering,
  - paragraph and page breaking - removed,
  - determining letter shapes, corner rounding, putting dots, adding
      serifs - as for bitmap rendering, except that Latin letters
      are not rendered but passed as text,
  - rendering graphical pieces on a bitmap - removed,
      outputting TeX commands instead.

OTOH I saw sources of two pieces of software which probably do too
many stages at once: SmallEiffel implementation (written in Eiffel)
and Doxygen (written in C++).

Python's generators should help with partitioning sequence processing,
so intermetiate representations don't need to be kept in memory in
the whole. With some luck very big data can be passed through many
stages in a little memory and the ability to stop at any point.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Fri Aug 17 20:13:22 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Thomas)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:13:22 GMT
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <3b7d5148_1@Usenet.com> <mailman.998090012.19681.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Cqif7.37040$281.6134627@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

>     tom> PySpy does run-time visualization and analysis of Python
software.
>     ...
>     tom> Warning in advance - currently this only runs on Windows.
>
> Looks very interesting.  Is there anything that makes it fundamentally
> Windows-specific?

No.

Where possible I tried to make it cross-platform (the GUI is wxWindows), but
I did use a couple of platform specific calls:

- For timing, the clock() call in the windows CRT yields rather innacurate
data, so I had to use a Win32 call.
- For routing data between processes I used pipes, which I created with
Win32 calls.

Tom.

> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/
>




From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 09:27:40 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:27:40 +0200
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997359736.9019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1212619.RQshPE9Mp6@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> schrub:

>> After some time working with Python I noticed that I use "-s and '-s
>> according to the following rule: I use "" quotes when I specify value
>> MANUALLY. That is, in most cases.  On the other hand, I use '' where
>> quotes are generated automatically. This is consistent with repr(),
>> which gives ''.
> 
> Observing myself, I noticed that I use "..." for text meant to be
> displayed and read by a human, and '...' for more internal,
> programmatic strings. It works well for me, to the point I turned this
> into a personal style rule.

I just use "..." for strings and '...' chars (Strings containing one 
char - this comes from Java where Chars can be given this way), and """ 
for multi-line strings or strings containing " or '. I never used '''s 
up to now.

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 19:58:36 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:58:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <4v8gotgplue1vt85o27j41knuofd3b83mj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251943300.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> Well, it didn't have any bearing on this question, so I didn't post it.
> But it is my own code (not yet tested). Since you ask, here it is:
>
>  [snip]
>
> And then there is the wrapper class, lockobject:
>
>  [snip]
>

I like. The only suggestion I'm going to make is that instead of passing the
filename to methods of the instantiated object, perhaps passing it when
instantiating it might be better. That way you can keep all the information
about the file on-hand when the locking methods are called. You could also
pass the mode and have a complete replacement for the file object, with
locking added.

> I'm just really dissatisfied with the poor file locking support in
> Python, unless one is writing code exclusively for posix platforms.
> About a week ago, I was composing a rant on that topic to post here. I
> did a lot of research on the topic, and a lot of web searches
> (google.com, groups.google.com, activestate.com, mail.python.org and so
> forth...)
>
> In the end, I decided not to post the rant (I deleted it), since I
> didn't think I'd gain anything by it. I decided to just rather try to
> solve the problem myself.

Good for you. I'm on several mailing lists and there are always people
complaining about a certain feature not being supported, yet they aren't
willing to look into the problem.

> Really, though, I do think the problem should be solved by someone in
> the Python developers circle and included in the standard library
> (something along the lines of anydbm). But, that's just my opinion. I
> have a number of reasons why I feel that way, but I won't go into it
> right now.

One of the problems with freely-available open-source software is that the
developers frequently aren't paid. That puts a limiting factor on how much
time they can spend on a project, because the rest of their time is spent
working and dealing with family.

One of the benefits of open-source software (and of scripting/programming
languages in general) is that the circle of developers is usually not limited
to a small number of people who have to be bugged for everything (even though
they usually are ;) ).

> Anyhow, Ignacio, thanks for the idea about the file descriptor. I think
> you may have something there. I will try it out later tonight and see if
> that helps.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Tue Aug 14 13:33:47 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:33:47 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <9larpb$6knlu@owl.le.ac.uk> <3B79632D.A06275A1@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B7960FB.68F1F3AF@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi All,

Chris Barker wrote:

> Clive Page wrote:
>
> > >> "Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
> > >>
> > >> -- Eric S. Raymond
> >
> > I think it's because it's so darned difficult to build and install.
>
> This is really kind of a chicken-egg problem. Many of the advantages
> that people have stated about TK essentially boil down to the fact that
> it is the "standard" GUI for Python: It comes with the main Python
> library, it is introduced in all the books, etc.

Yes, the Windows installer should provide a special "icon" to give the user an
option to install wxPython instead of Tkinter. But for this the user must pay
by having two more icons, say for Tix widget set and togl for PyOpenGL.

Alexander




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug  3 11:53:51 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:53:51 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Q: Code Review Checklist?
In-Reply-To: <20010803.140710.7684930.2921@albert.lindeverlag.at>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108031940580.4876-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Albert Brandl wrote:

>Hi, all!
>
>I've just stumbled across the Personal Software Process and its Code
>Review Checklist. While this checklist seems quite helpful for reviewing
>C code, it does not quite fit Python ("Check that all strings are
>identified by pointers and terminated in NULL"...).
>
>I'd like to know if somebody uses a similar list which has been tailored
>to the needs of Python. If yes: could you share it with us?

O! Just put motivating subject and you will have a long-long checklist. If
you just cite some items here from the original - you will get more in
return ;-)

Personally, I think that Python programmers do their checks while they
write code, because in Python you do not write that many LOC. There is
Python Style Guide which will teach you how to write Pythonic Python
programs. Python idioms also help to keep programs readable. Applying
PyChecker could find some problems...

I just can't recall any errors I made because of lack of checking... For
example, today I found an error in one of my programs which was putting
">" instead of "<". No formal checking could help in finding the error.

So, I can't think of any checklist to review my own code... And if I need
to dive into somebody else's code, checklist is too dynamic and personal.
Like: check if all "string.atoi()" are changed to "int()"

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 03, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "MACINTOSH - Most Apps Crash, If Not, Then Operating System Hangs" _/




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Thu Aug 16 19:40:19 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:40:19 +0200
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <hlionts1hamt30ojl6otn5gm7i02hh3b6q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:44:34 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote:
>>    [me]
>>    To avoid long transition periods when a new Python feature requires a new
>>    keyword, this PEP proposes to reserve a set of keywords "in advance".
>
> A good idea overall, IMO.
>
>>    abstract, directive, foreign, interface, static, yield
>
>I think we'd have to talk seriously about _which_ keywords, and peronally
>believe that Guido and team should handle the whole thing.

I agree. But they should IMHO reserve any keywords they might possible use in
future versions in a bunch. This would avoid from __future__ kludges and reduce
the temptation of "clever" reusing of existing keywords.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 09:06:57 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:06:57 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au> <9l0fu80287j@enews4.newsguy.com> <cp66bv46jk.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l2ugf2egu@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cpae16bvc4.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
> news:cp66bv46jk.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
>     ...
> > While I probably introduced this myself (pickle uses it), I have one
> > reservation.  Assignment to self.__class__ is unique to Python -- it's
> > not an idiom one can easily translate to other languages.  It's also a
> > relatively new Python feature (I don't even know if Jython supports
> 
> I believe Ruby and Perl both have the powerful (if rarely used)
> "change class dynamically" feature.  It would be a pity if Python,
> which introduced it, were now to lose it.  A similar feature was a
> *hair-breadth away* from making it into early C++, according
> to Stroustrup's "Design and evolution" book -- he seriously
> considered the possibility of an object referring to its own
> 'base-object' via a pointer (as is done in virtual inheritance)
> with the ability to change that pointer in the fly (leading to a
> recomputation of virtual tables) -- he eventually gave it up,
> with some regrets, for performance considerations (possibility
> of 100%-performance being always a high priority in C++'s
> evolution -- specifically, zero mandatory overhead being imposed
> on code _not_ using some advanced feature).
> 
> I call the feature 'rarely used', but others may use it less
> rarely.  Moshe Zadka, for example, has advocated that a
> class-change is the right way to 'customize' a specific
> instance, rather than adding a method to the instance itself
> on the fly (I'm not quite sure why, and wouldn't want to
> misrepresent his position, but I believe it has to do with a
> wish to see behavior as associated with _classes_, not with
> _instances_).

Let's just say that use of this feature is at your own risk.  It was
an experiment.  I *could* restore it partially (see below) but I'd
rather not, given that better alternatives are available.

> > But maybe more importantly, I don't know how to support this esoteric
> > feature after the type/class unification is complete.  Under the new
> > system, not all instances are born the same: instances may have slots
> > for instance variables rather than a __dict__ -- using slots makes for
> > more space-efficient instances.  (Having a __dict__ is still the
> > default, and an instance can have both slots and a __dict__.)
> 
> So presumably not just ANY class-object may be assigned as
> the __class__ attribute of a given instance: there will be a type
> error if the class and the instance don't agree on slots/dictionary
> use.  Can't this be checked at runtime when some
>     instance.__class__ = anewclass
> is attempted?

I'm sure I'd be able to come up with some kind of check that works.
It would probably be very similar to the check I already use to
determine whether two base classes are compatible -- the check that
stops you from doing "class C(list, dictionary)".  But I repeat: I'd
rather not.

> If this check slows down this specific esoteric
> feature this shouldn't be a problem.

That depends on how much of a slowdown it is. :)  The start of this
thread was about avoiding work done by __init__.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 03:31:40 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 00:31:40 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> > problem with enforcing privacy is that the designer can seldom
> > anticipate all of the possible uses of their code and placing arbitrary
> > access restriction can make it impossible for the user to accomplish
> > their task.
> 
> Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient and a language that lets
> me workaround a limitation in the design of a framework or library
> I need to use is just what I need.

The trouble is, the very existence of a workaround is sometimes itself
a limitation, e.g. in implementing an applet sandbox.

> > Python is a general purpose programming language and its design should
> > not be significantly compromised to make a particular (uncommon) usage
> > more convenient i.e. security environments.
> 
> Yep.  Besides, rexec and Bastion (could use some spiffying up,
> but) are pretty good for this.

I'll check into those.  However, a true general purpose language
should be useable in all environments.  

If Python had Scheme-like lexical closures, that might be enough
to solve this particular problem.


From gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net  Sat Aug  4 11:42:02 2001
From: gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net (Greg Landrum)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 08:42:02 -0700
Subject: CXX questions
References: <3B6B2F6A.52A91304@home.net>
Message-ID: <9kh519$br0$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

"Chris Barker" <chrishbarker at home.net> wrote in message
news:3B6B2F6A.52A91304 at home.net...
>
> Does CXX work on Windows (and the Mac)? I know it should be pretty
> platform independent, but I see no mention whatsoever of Windows in any
> of the docs, so I'm wondering if anyone is actually using is there. We
> are running on Linux and Windows at the moment, and may need to add Mac
> support someday as well.

I have used CXX on Windows with no problems whatsoever.

> Does CXX include support for NumPy arrays? I use a lot of those, and it
> wopuld be handy.

Working with NumPy stuff from C extension modules is reasonably
straightforward, whether you
are using CXX or not.

> Is the CXX project alive and well? It looks like the latest update on
> sourceforge is almost a year old: not a good sign!

I believe it's still alive and well.  I think that version 5.1 is coming
reasonable soon, but you'd have to check with the developers on that.

If you are wrapping C++ code and still just getting started, you might want
to look at using the Boost Python library
(http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html) instead of CXX.  Boost
makes it very easy to wrap classes and has the very nice feature of allowing
you to subclass your extension classes in Python.  One potential pitfall
with Boost is that it really gives your C++ compiler a workout.  It mostly
works with Visual C++, but I have no idea how good your Mac C++ compiler is.

I hope this helps,
-greg




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 23 15:33:44 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:33:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Downloading alpha releases; a good idea?
In-Reply-To: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231532140.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Jesse W wrote:

> I am a hobby user of Python.
> How unstable are alpha releases?  I now have Python 2.0 and am
> thinking about updating.  Should I go to 2.1(.1, of course), wait for
> 2.2 final, or get 2.2.a2 which is out now?  And if I go with 2.1.1
> should I update to 2.2 final when it comes out?
>
> 	Any comments would be appreciated,
> 		Jesse W

If the new version has features or bugfixes that you want or need, then by all
means upgrade. Otherwise, why bother?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From tony at lsl.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 06:15:08 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:15:08 +0100
Subject: language lawyering - doc strings
In-Reply-To: <66b6xvc0.fsf@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <00b601c1313c$a59d9010$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

gcash wrote:
> I know this is being pedantic, but where's the syntactical spec for
> documentation strings in the language reference?

Hmm - docstrings are just that - strings - so one is allowed to put
whatever text one likes in there, and I believe this will always be the
case. This is a Good Thing, notwithstanding my next points...

There are some basic guidelines on dosctring layout, laid out by Guido
himself, in his style guide:

	http://www.python.org/doc/essays/styleguide.html

which has since evolved into a series of PEPs. In particular,

	http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0257.html

(still a draft) is relevant.

The Doc-SIG has been working for a long time (!) on producing a spec for
the syntax of docstrings, such that one can parse them (for various
possible reasons). The latest and current work is documented at:

	http://docstring.sourceforge.net/
and	http://structuredtext.sourceforge.net/

The relevant PEPs are numbers 256, 257, 258 (257 was mentioned above, of
course).

There's a draft quick reference at:

	http://structuredtext.sourceforge.net/docs/quickref.html

Some of us have already started to use reST in our docstrings, in
anticipation.

> I was looking at the 2.1.1 docs and I'd expect it to be in "4.1 Code
> blocks, execution frames, and namespaces" but the only reference to
> documentation strings is where it mentions the __doc__ attribute.

Hmm - I wouldn't expect such a peripheral matter (which it is, really)
to be in such a fundamental place.

> I noticed this when someone asserted you can't have doc strings for
> classes.

Interesting. But wrong.

Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
"Bounce with the bunny. Strut with the duck.
 Spin with the chickens now - CLUCK CLUCK CLUCK!"
BARNYARD DANCE! by Sandra Boynton
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)





From janssen at parc.xerox.com  Wed Aug  1 22:17:06 2001
From: janssen at parc.xerox.com (Bill Janssen)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 19:17:06 PDT
Subject: 2.2 features 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:28:54 PDT."
             <200108010328.XAA18293@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com>

> You may be right.  isinstance() and issubclass() are somewhat standard
> in other languages I believe, and hard to misunderstand.  The form
> 
>   if x in list: ...
> 
> looks a lot more confusing.  I may withdraw this idea.

I'd think again.  The problem with isinstance and issubclass is that I
can never remember the order of the arguments.  Something
non-symmetric like "x in type" is much clearer to me, to read and to
write.

Bill




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Aug  7 15:08:30 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 19:08:30 GMT
Subject: dynamic import/reload of modules
References: <KNPb7.96$y9k.170737664@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <slrn9n0f5d.im5.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:54:34 GMT, Thomas Weholt <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote:
>Say I got a folder-structure like this :
>
>/home/thomas/dev/modules/test1
>/home/thomas/dev/modules/test2
>
>they both contain two files:
>__init__.py
>handler.py
>
>The handler.py contains a class handlerclass, that's different for each of
>the handler files
>
>How can I import the handler.py module for each folder, be able to reload it
>and create object-instances from them?
>I want to be able to say 'mymodules.reload()' and reload them too.
>
>The point is to be able to easily create and import several modules into a
>server without stopping the server itself. I want to be able to create a
>folder in the /home/thomas/dev/modules-folder, put to files into it, call
>reload on the server and have the modules available inside the running
>server. I cannot know what the folder inside /home/thomas/dev/modules will
>be called, but it will contain a handler.py defining a handlerclass-object
>and a __init__.py ( if that's necessary ).
>
>Any clues or pointers?
>
>It's for use in medusa. I want to be able to dynamically define handlers
>that processes requests, and reload them.

I think you're interested in __import__ or the imp module.  This is untested,
off the top of my head.  You shouldn't need __init__.py for this.

class MyModules:
    def __init__(self, directory):
        self.directory = directory
        self.reload()
    def reload(self):
        self.handlers = []
        for fn in os.listdir(self.directory):
            if not fn.endswith('.py'):
                continue
            fn = os.path.join(self.directory, fn)
            try:
                self.handlers.append(imp.load_module((open(fn), fn,
                    ('.py', 'r', imp.PY_SOURCE))))
            except:
                log_error(sys.exc_info()[1])

    # for example
    def handler(self, data):
        for m in self.handlers:
            if m.can_handle(data):
                return m.handlerclass(data)
    def all_handlers(self):
        return [ h.__name__ for h in self.handlers ]

I don't remember if imp.load_module tries to cache in sys.modules, but if it
does, you may want to find a way that doesn't or remove it from the cache.


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 17 14:41:39 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:41:39 -0400
Subject: 2.1.1 installer hangs on Win2k Professional
In-Reply-To: <471417c6.0108171010.4175757f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEHBLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mike Harrison]
> Has anyone gotten the windows installer to get past the selection of
> components? On my win2k machine, it just hangs when I click next at
> that point and I have to terminate the process. It gives me an error
> that the win16 subsystem is unstable and must be shutdown.

I've never seen that happen (I have tried to provoke it!), but have heard of
it (just) a few times.  Some people report success after (temporarily or
permanently <wink>) switching COMPSPEC from cmd.exe to command.com, or vice
versa.  The true cause is unknown.  Have you installed Win2K Service Pack 2?

> Is this installer a win16 program?

Yes.

> If so, why?

Because that's the only kind of installer Wise 5.0a builds.

For 2.2, Wise Solutions is kindly allowing us to use InstallMaster 8.1
instead, and that produces a 32-bit installer.  Wise 5.0a was released when
Win95 was new, and it seems a miracle to me that the installers it builds
*usually* run fine on all flavors of Windows since then; the new installer
definitely runs better in some Win2K corner cases I've been able to provoke
(but, as above, your corner case is one I've never seen).

> Is there any way of installing Python on windows without using the
> non-win2k-compatible installer?

There's something almost-unique about your machine, but afraid I don't know
what it is.

If you don't want to wait for 2.2 (2.2 alpha 2 will be the first time we
release the new-technology installer), and you've installed SP2, and the
COMSPEC trick doesn't work for you either, you could try ActiveState's
installer:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/

That's an MSI-based install.




From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Wed Aug 29 03:00:41 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:00:41 +0200
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mi3up$2934s$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

Inspired by the recent discussion of perls inline
module I wrote the attached module, which is yet
another way to do it.

Enjoy,

Thomas

----inline.py---
class C_Func:
    def __init__(self, inline, name, code, doc, prefix):
        self.name = name
        self.code = code
        self.doc = doc
        self.module = inline
        self.prefix = prefix

    def create(self, file):
        file.write("static  PyObject *%s(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)\n"\
                   % (self.prefix + self.name))
        file.write(self.code)
        file.write("\n");

    def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
        mod = self.module.create()
        func = getattr(mod, self.name)
        return func(*args, **kw)

class Inline:
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name
        self.functions = {}
        self.mod = None
        self.libraries = []

    def c_func(self, name, code, doc=None, prefix=''):
        if self.mod:
            raise RuntimeError, \
                  "Cannot add any more functions: Extension already created"
        func = C_Func(self, name, code, doc, prefix)
        self.functions[name] = func
        return func

    def create(self):
        if not self.mod:
            # generate the code
            import StringIO
            buffer = StringIO.StringIO()
            buffer.write("#include <python.h>\n")
            buffer.write("\n")

            for func in self.functions.values():
                func.create(buffer)

            buffer.write("static PyMethodDef methods[] = {\n")
            for fname in self.functions.keys():
                pre = self.functions[fname].prefix
                buffer.write('    { "%s", %s, METH_VARARGS },\n' % \
                           (fname, pre + fname))
            buffer.write('    { NULL }, /* sentinel */\n};\n')
            buffer.write("\n")

            buffer.write('void init%s(void)\n' % self.name)
            buffer.write('{\n    Py_InitModule3("%s", methods, "");\n}\n' % \
                         self.name)

            code = buffer.getvalue()
            buffer.close()

            # calulate md5 digest
            import md5
            m = md5.new()
            m.update(code)
            hd = m.hexdigest()

            # compare to existing digest, if present
            try:
                old_md5 = open(self.name + '.md5', 'r').read()
            except:
                old_md5 = None

            # if the digests match, no recompilation is needed
            if old_md5 != hd:
                # recompilation needed
                file = open(self.name + '.c', 'w')
                file.write(code)
                file.close()

                from distutils.core import setup, Extension

                ext = Extension(self.name, sources=[self.name + '.c'],
                                libraries=self.libraries)

                setup(ext_modules=[ext], script_name="dummy",
                      script_args=["-q", "install", "--install-platlib=."])

                open(self.name + '.md5', 'w').write(hd)
                import os
                os.remove(self.name + '.c')

            # import module
            self.mod = __import__(self.name)

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        if name not in self.functions.keys():
            raise AttributeError, name
        if not self.mod:
            self.create()
        return getattr(self.mod, name)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    module = Inline("_sample")

    # define a function implemented in C
    # The function declaration will be added automatically,
    # in this case 'static PyObject *fib_c(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)'
    module.c_func("fib_c", r"""
{
    int i;
    static int _fib(int);
    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &i))
        return NULL;
    return Py_BuildValue("i", _fib(i));
}

static int _fib(int i)
{
    if (i <= 2)
        return i;
    return _fib(i - 1) + _fib(i - 2);
}
    """)


    # define a function implemented in C
    # The function declaration will be added automatically,
    # in this case 'static PyObject *fib_c(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)'
    module.c_func("fact_c", r"""
{
    int i;
    PyObject *inst;
    static int _fact(int);
    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "Oi", &inst, &i))
        return NULL;
    return Py_BuildValue("i", _fact(i));
}

static int _fact(int i)
{
    if (i <= 1)
        return i;
    return i * _fact(i - 1);
}
    """)



    # generate and compile an extension module (if needed),
    # retrieve the function from it.
    fib_c = module.fib_c


    # a similar function implemented in Python
    def fib_py(i):
        if i <= 2:
            return i
        return fib_py(i-1) + fib_py(i-2)

    # we can also define a class, and use the extension module's functions
    # as instance methods
    class X:
        def fact_py(self, i):
            if i <= 1:
                return i
            return i * self.fact_py(i-1)

    # convert the extension function into a unbound method
    # and attach it to the class
    import new
    X.fact_c = new.instancemethod(module.fact_c, None, X)

    # do a little benchmark
    import time

    start = time.clock()
    print "fib_py(30) =", fib_py(30), "%s seconds" % (time.clock() - start)

    start = time.clock()
    print "fib_c(30) =", fib_c(30), "%s seconds" % (time.clock() - start)

    x = X()

    start = time.clock()
    print "x.fact_py(12) =", x.fact_py(12), "%s seconds" % (time.clock() - start)

    start = time.clock()
    print "x.fact_c(12) =", x.fact_c(12), "%s seconds" % (time.clock() - start)





From gorny at hobbiton.org  Sat Aug 25 12:56:08 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:56:08 +0200
Subject: seg. fault with ext. module
References: <s5Kh7.41577$Vs4.366601@zonnet-reader-1> <m3lmk8xr77.fsf@gondolin.beleriand> <utOh7.41606$Vs4.368258@zonnet-reader-1> <m3heuwxfpm.fsf@gondolin.beleriand>
Message-ID: <jMQh7.41636$Vs4.369092@zonnet-reader-1>

> Yes (sort of). The function returns a reference to an existing object
> without updating the ref count. The caller (the Interpreter) will
> decrement the ref count, when this reference gets out of scope,
> which means in this case `None' is disposed too early, because it was
> used more often than the ref count said. (Someone with more insight
> can explain why this creates a segfault.)

;-) allright, I got the point.. thanks

> Yes. If you return a reference to an existing object, you have to
> increment the ref count. If you create a new object (e.g. with
> Py_BuildValue()), you just pass the reference to the caller.
>
> /steffen

thanks again

Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net





From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Fri Aug 24 15:47:04 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:47:04 -0500
Subject: Tkinter window displaying the time?
References: <9m698a$t90$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <jtofp5nsuf.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

"G. Willoughby" <thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com> writes:

> I thought of using a while 1: loop and providing a 1 second delay with
> sleep(1) to update the title but this don't seem to be working, any ideas???

        With the while 1: loop the event handler will never have a
chance to take over.  You want to schedule an update callback
regularly.  Try this:


from Tkinter import *
from time import *

def titleTime():
    now = strftime("GMT: %I:%M:%S %p", localtime(time()))
    root.title(now)
    # Time in ms.
    root.after(1000, titleTime)

root=Tk()
root.iconify()
titleTime()
root.mainloop()


-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org


From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Aug  9 20:39:57 2001
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:39:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Creating Irc Client
References: <I8mc7.5005$Ke7.326747@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9kvags$3c9q$2@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:04:10 -0400, Relfx <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to find as much information as poossible right now so i can
> build a python irc client what should be created first the interface? Or
> should all the programming be done first.
> 

I would definitely make sure that you can get connected and interact
with IRC before putting tons of effort in to a fancy GUI. I am doing
much the same thing with a telnet (mud) client, and I am having much
difficulty getting the ANSI color support to be fast enough.

I have written a C extension to parse the server output for the ANSI
codes, but it's still too slow.

Just one opinion...



From bawolk at ucdavis.edu  Wed Aug  8 12:34:39 2001
From: bawolk at ucdavis.edu (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:34:39 -0700
Subject: PyQt install problem
References: <3B70BAB7.A9C3061C@ucdavis.edu> <9kqm4t$6q9$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3B716A1F.6DA99D39@ucdavis.edu>

Good suggestion.  When I run ldd on libqtcmodule.so as root and as user I get
different results for libqt.so.2:

root
    libqt.so.2 => /usr/lib/qt-2.3.0/lib/libqt.so.2 (0x40505000)
user
    libqt.so.2 => /usr/local/qt/lib/libqt.so.2 (0x404f6000)

I don't understand why this is so.  It seems that the qt libraries are in
fact in both locations--both version 2.3.  I am not sure how that happened.
So what should I do now?

I also get many additional libraries as root that I don't get as user:

 libXft.so.1 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 (0x40ec9000)
 libpng.so.2 => /usr/lib/libpng.so.2 (0x40eee000)
 libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x40f0f000)
 libjpeg.so.62 => /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62 (0x40f1e000)
 libmng.so.1 => /usr/lib/libmng.so.1 (0x40f3d000)
 libXrender.so.1 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.so.1 (0x41018000)
 libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0x4101e000)

Thanks,
Bruce

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> Bruce Wolk <bawolk at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> > I compiled the sip-2.4.tar.gz  and   PyQt-2.4.tar.gz versions under
> > Red Hat 7.1 against Qt2.3 and Python 2.1, both without any errors.  When
> > I run the PyQt examples as root, I get the following message, but the
> > examples run:
>
> It would be interesting to examine the output of ldd on your
> generated PyQt module, to see whether the Qt library it thinks it's
> linked to actually exists - perhaps root and plain users have different
> library paths.
>
> If everything fails it might be best to ask on the PyKDE mailing list:
>
>   http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde
>
> --
>
> Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org



From -$Paul$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 08:43:57 2001
From: -$Paul$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:43:57 -0000
Subject: vi % alternive command
References: <3B8417F8.1B469E91@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <9m2tqd$7it$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <3B8417F8.1B469E91 at bioeng.ucsd.edu>,
Curtis Jensen  <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>In vi the "%" command will jump to the closing or openeing (,{,[, etc. 
>This is helpful to find the end of blocks (if blocks, function blocks,
>etc).  Has anyone figured out and equivalent commend for vi/vim to jump
>to the end/beginning of a block?  Thanks.

http://vim.sourceforge.net/tips/tip.php?tip_id=103 (which I added
yesterday :-) might be a good place to start. It only works in Vim 6.0
as it needs the search function, and it doesn't do quite what you want:
it is intended to jump to the next/previous line with the same
indentation as the line you're on, so if you're on an "if" you can jump
to the "else" or to the end of the "if" if it has lines following it.

There's also the set of Vim scripts for Python which someone has already
mentioned. I think what you want requires a script rather than a clever
mapping as you need to see where the indentation changes.

-- 
----- Paul Wright ------| "Actually, it is small, scented pieces of petals
-paul.wright at pobox.com--| which are the antichrist and Ian Paisley's
http://pobox.com/~pw201 | cries of 'No Pot-pourri' have been tragically
                        | misunderstood." -- Steven Carr, uk.religion.christian


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 20:47:29 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:47:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: get the output of a cmd via popen2
In-Reply-To: <9m9f3p$11ggd$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108252046490.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Rajarshi Guha wrote:

> Hi,
>   I think I'm doing the right thing, but it does'nt seem to be working.
>
> I have a command which I want to run from a Python script and I want to
> capture the output. So I do,
>
> i,o = os.popen2(cmd)
>
> where cmd is the string that represents the command. But on printing o all
> I get is an object representation like:
>
> <open file '(fdopen)', mode 'r' at 0x810d9f8>
>
> Not the output of the program.
>
> Any suggestions as to whats going wrong and how to fix it?
>
> TIA

The problem is that you're not calling the methods of o to get the data from
the file object.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Thu Aug 23 08:10:59 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:10:59 +0100
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...)
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org> <7x3d6jqa9l.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m3kqi$hor$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Christian Tanzer:
> I'd strongly prefer a IOError exception hierarchy with one exception
> class for each different errno value to the current situation. You
> could still catch IOError, but you could also just catch the odd
> DeviceFull or PermissionDenied exception and leave all others to your
> caller.

Paul Rubin:
>This makes sense to me.

I believe though that it's complicated to implement while not
giving much additional power.

How would it be implemented?  There would need to be a mapping
from errno to class, and you want the classes to be named DeviceFull
or similarly readable names, rather than ENOSPC.  So all C-level
code raising an exception would need to call this mapping and
construct the appropriate subclass.  And if the errno doesn't
exists, fall back to use the IOError class it uses now.

That's doable, just more complicated, but the advantage is being
able to do

try:
  f(x)
except DeviceFull:
  ...
except PermissionDenied:
  ...
except TextBusy:
  ...

Now suppose you're on a system which doesn't have a TextBusy
(errno == ETXTBSY, "if one tries to exec() a file that is currently
open for writing").  Since the errno doesn't exist, should the
TextBusy subclass exist?  If it doesn't, then on some machines
there will be a NameError for TextBusy.

So to catch those problems you'll need to have a generic

def check(err):
    return errno.errcode.get(err.errno)


except IOError, err:
    if check(err) == "ETXTBSY":
        ...

Which means we're back to what we have now.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 23 12:40:11 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:40:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
In-Reply-To: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231239300.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, RonB wrote:

> I installed pysol, a cardgame, but when I try to run it I get this error
> message: RuntimeError: Bad magic number in .pyc file   I installed it
> straight from the suse cd (rpm file) and there where no dependency problems.
> I dont get what's going wrong here and my girlfriend realy wants to play
> solitaire on linux (and isn't to impressed with kpatience)
>
> KDE2.2 Suse 7.1
>
> Thnx
>
> RB

The easiest way is probably just to get the source RPM and rebuild the
application from that.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 09:07:09 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:07:09 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <mailman.999153826.27100.python-list@python.org> <3b8e6d04.14344968@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9mo25u02tru@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8e6d04.14344968 at news.t-online.de...
    ...
> Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own print
> function - er - statement. So, is "print = foo" a valid statement? No.

No, but only because print is a reserved word (a statement, not
a function).  So, the ambiguity still fully applies whenever
you're assigning to ANY identifier except the few reserved words.

Moreover: pleek = print is not ambiguous because it's illegal --
again, because print is a reserved word, NOT a function.  With
ANY non-reserved identifier, your "IMHO neat" syntax trick would
make it totally ambiguous.

> Is "print plikke" ambiguous? No. Is "print plikke()" ambiguous? No. So
> what is the problem? Just add the tiny little restriction that there
> is only one statement-like-function-call-per-instruction (separating
> by ; should work naturally) and you have a (IMHO neat) syntax trick.

Is that "only one" as in "ZERO are not allowed"?  Otherwise, most
obviously,
    pleek = plook
IS fully ambiguous -- is plook to be called, or is it just used and
a reference to it assigned to pleek?  It's not assignment only --
    pleek(plook)
suffers exactly the same ambiguity (again, the problem doesn't
arise with print *because print is a reserved word*).

> Maybe you're too much reminded of the way this works in Perl & VB.
> But please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour, and
> couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you have
> to enclose the arguments in brackets.

Problems that can be solved by tools should be solved by tools,
rather than complicating the language in an attempt to work
around them.  For example, the following script, while a rough
first draft, might be a real beginning on solving your problem:

import tokenize, token

def statement_end(toktype, tokstr):
    return token.ISEOF(toktype) or \
        toktype==token.NEWLINE or \
        (toktype==token.OP and tokstr==';')

class dePrint:
    def __init__(self, changeto):
        self.changeto = changeto
        self.changes = []
        self.seenprint = 0
    def eat(self, toktype, tokstr, start, end, line):
        if tokstr == "print":
            lineno, startcol = start
            junk, endcol = end
            self.changes.append((lineno, startcol, endcol, self.changeto))
            self.seenprint = 1
        elif statement_end(toktype, tokstr) and self.seenprint:
            lineno, startcol = start
            junk, endcol = end
            if token.ISEOF(toktype): lineno -= 1
            self.changes.append((lineno, startcol, endcol, ')'+tokstr))
            self.seenprint = 0

def subst_print(changeto, readline):
    deprinter = dePrint(changeto)
    tokenize.tokenize(readline, deprinter.eat)
    return deprinter.changes

def tryone(string, outname='pippo'):
    import cStringIO
    asfile = cStringIO.StringIO(string)
    changes = subst_print(outname+'(', asfile.readline)
    asfile.seek(0)
    lines = asfile.readlines()
    print len(lines),"lines"
    for lineno, startcol, endcol, change in changes:
        print lineno, startcol, endcol, repr(change)
        line = lines[lineno-1]
        if startcol==endcol==0:
            line = line+change
        else:
            linestart = line[:startcol]
            lineend = line[endcol:]
            line = linestart+change+lineend
        lines[lineno-1] = line
    for line in lines:
        print line,
    print

There are "prettyprinting" worries (since the spaces
normally used after print remain, while one might want
to eliminate them) and more substantial ones (e.g.,
this does nothing about the trailing comma in a
print statement), but it's a start -- try the
"tryone" function on a few examples by running
this e.g. with python -i.  And this IS a rough, off-
the-cuff first attempt -- it's surely possible to do
much better by giving the problem the 20-30 minutes'
worth of thought and experiments it deserves.


Alex





From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Thu Aug 30 13:21:56 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:21:56 -0700
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
Message-ID: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>

Is there any editor support python?




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 08:19:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:19:28 +0200
Subject: updating com server
References: <69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206@posting.google.com> <9l8dlg$7uq1m$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9l936i01a91@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:9l8dlg$7uq1m$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> I've been working on a com server that returns ~80 fields to Excel.  While
I
> don't understand the why of it, my routine now when making changes to the
> python source is to close Excel; make the python changes; re-register the
> com server, which also serves to confirm that the source properly
compiles;
> and finally, to re-open Excel and the workbook I'm testing with.
>
> HTH you with Word.

This seems about right, because Visual Basic (and VBA's what behind
both Word and Excel) has the endearing habit of caching COM objects
used from it (with out-of-process ones, you can check in NT's task
manager's process list -- the processes stay alive as long as VB's
holding on to them...).  This is no doubt OK for most users, who get
possibly faster performance from this, but a bother for developers
of COM objects who need to try them out from a VB environment!

I wish VB had some call to tell it to drop its COM cache, but I know
of nothing of the kind, so closing and restarting may be the only way.


Alex





From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug 12 02:22:52 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:22:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
In-Reply-To: <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108120013410.15388-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:
> 
> > Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> > remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?
> 
> Yes, I'd like to remove this.  See my previous post in this thread for
> more of an explanation of the problem.  But I haven't decided yet!
> This thread will help me figure out how big of a deal it will be.

It's a pretty big deal for me, but it sounds like we should be able to
reach some agreement, as the exact semantics of it aren't too important to
me, rather the loss of the features it provides. (see below for a
suggestion on how to do the check...)

> Also note that nothing will change (yet) for classic classes -- in
> 2.2, classic classes will use a different metaclass from "new-style"
> classes, and the classic metaclass will provide the same semantics for
> classes and instance as before.  The class statement creates a classic
> class by default -- unless you explicitly subclass from a built-in
> type or a new-style class.

Can you point me (and other readers just coming to this discussion) to a
few URLs illuminating the key differences between 'new-style' and
'old-style' classes?  I'm going to do some reading up on the various PEPs,
but if there are any posts on python-dev I can refer to...

> In a sense, in 2.2 the new-style classes will still be experimental,
> and it's quite likely that based upon feedback from users they will
> change (for the better) in later versions.

Good to know.  I have to say that although I am among the biggest
detractors to change, I can appreciate the difficulty of what you're
doing; python is the first language I know of that has ever gone through
significant *refactoring* (not whole-scale rewriting or just adding
things) at both the implementation and design level.  I wish you good
luck, and I hope that the voices from the "loyal opposition" are more of a
help than a hindrance.

[ (snip) so much is changing ]

> But you're getting so much in return!

> Subclassing built-in types,

Operator overloading got me 90% of the way there, and that was really the
only 90% I care about.  aside from isinstance() working on instances that
are 'like' integers now, what have I gained?

> get/set methods,

I already *have* get/set methods, in 1.5.2; see
twisted.python.reflect.Accessor :-)

> class and static methods,

Those could be easily faked before, for the OO zealots; but I actually
*like* the idea of using functions for things like that.  I prefer to
organize my code at the module level, and I find the additional option of
these method types just clutter.

> uniform introspection...

Aye, now there's the rub.  If we have uniform introspection, there's a
certain expectation that features like this become _easier_ to use, not
harder.  Introspection is a powerful feature, all the more powerful if
it's uniform and systematic.

[ (snip) promise pattern is easy with class assignment ]

> If you know the type it's going to be eventually, you can use
> C.__new__() to create an uninitialized C instance.

The point is that sometimes you don't...

Of course, you *could* create a class of which all your 'promised' objects
are instances, and do specialization by having a reference in each
instance to its 'real' class, but doesn't that seem a little silly given
that we don't have to do it now? :-)

> I guess the name ("twisted") says it all. :-)

Just wait until you get into the subproject naming scheme :)

> > One of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
> > and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.
> 
> You will still be able to modify *classes* dynamically -- although you
> have to declare this option by putting __dynamic__ = 1 in your class
> statement.

Hmm.  This seems like _less_ uniform introspection to me.  I do have to
note that if this is a requirement, then a part of the Twisted coding
standard will be to have all classes have __dynamic__ = 1; one rarely
knows what code is going to have a bug _before_ the server is started :)

Also, as an aside: one of my favorite things about Python is the ability
to fix bugs in a library you're using without having to modify the source
to that library (if libmodule.version == '0.6.0': fix_libmodule_bug()).  
This greatly eases deployment.  Fixing bugs in a running server is also
pretty important if you don't have the option to take the server down...

Could we have the default be the other way 'round?  (Has there already
been a discussion of that?)

[ Object>>become: ]
> Probably not -- although I don't know what that does.

Since smalltalk objects are effectively handles, you can replace all
references to one object with references to another.  I really don't
expect python to ever be able to do this.  (Although currently it can fake
it _really_ convincingly -- everything but 'is', pretty much --
instance-to-instance, by replacing __dict__ and __class__)

[ (snip) Can't you write a check to validate __class__ assignment? ]

> I'd rather not because it's a complicated check to write, and it may
> be difficult to explain the restrictions.  Here's an example of the
> kind of restriction that is unavoidable.
> 
> I don't know how familiar you are with Python's C-level internals.  
> If you are, you'll appreciate the problem if I took a list object and
> changed its type pointer to the dictionary type -- the instance
> lay-out of a dictionary is different, and all the methods would be
> using the list data as if it were dictionary data.  Recipe for
> disaster.  Likewise, changing a featureless object into a list or dict
> would at the very least require growing the size of the instance; this
> would require a realloc(), which may move the object in memory.  But
> if there are other references to the object, these would all have to
> be updated.  Python's run-time architecture just doesn't support that.

Yes.  At least, I *think* I'm familiar with that.

The obvious solution, if I understand python's internals correctly, is to
make a type method slot, "tp_change_class".  Most types would just raise
an exception; instances would continue to work the way they have been.  
Aside from the fact that it's icky syntactically, is there anything that
this would break or make unpleasant?

And if the syntax is not dealable, it would be a perfectly reasonable
transition to have

 def change_class(obj, newclass):
   obj.__class__ = newclass

be the current implementation of a function that would be implemented as a
builtin in the future...

> Nevertheless, all evidence suggests that Twisted is not typical Python
> code. :-)

It may not be typical, but I feel that the introspection features that
Twisted makes use of should not be considered hacks or kludges; they are
_very_ powerful tools.  I realize that some of them are the result of
implementation tricks but that does not make them any less useful,
powerful, or profound.  (More on this below.)

> Python is more dynamic than the language I *wanted* to design.

Thank you for screwing up, guido! :-D

Seriously, the dynamic nature of Python is what makes it cool.  I can
understand removing meaningless dynamic features in order to make it
faster (write access to locals() as a dictionary, for example) but I
suspect that many more dynamic features than you like are really really
useful.

If you want to design a better language in this regard, it may be
worthwhile to consider writing a language specifically designed for
producing more static python-like code, that uses the Python runtime to
present an external interface; (each module 'compiles' to a python-C API
file) especially if there are efficiency concerns.  I'd *really* like a
way to push my code to a "lower level" without resorting to C; such a
language ("Cleese" maybe?) having _some_ dynamic characteristics of python
but lacking others would be fine.

This makes the 'parrot' proposal sound even better; if the more worrisome
developments of python could take place in a radical fork (Py3K), but
remain compatible on a module-binding level with existing Python...

I could imagine an effort to make Python less dynamic could well end up
like the ill-fated project to make C more dynamic (C++).

> Some of the dynamicism was simply a implementation trick.  Some of the
> dynamicism is getting in the way of optimizing code, because the
> optimizer can never prove that certain variables won't be changed.

I want my Python code to execute faster, sure.  But before you start
eliminating features for the sake of speed, ask yourself -- is anyone who
is really concerned with efficiency writing code in *python*?  The speed
freaks have long since moved over to ADA or C++ or some other similiarly
torturous language to hate themselves at the speed of light while we're
having fun slowly. :-)

> So I'm trying to look for ways that pin down things a bit more.  I'm
> making assumptions about how "typical" Python code uses the dynamic
> features, and I'm slowly trying to introduce restrictions in the
> language that make the optimizer's life easier without affecting
> "typical" code.

Allow me to be skeptical of the fact that there is such a thing as
"typical" code :).  Most 'typical' python code could probably be written
in Java without much difference except a little more typing. It's when you
get to the boundary conditions -- adding attributes dynamically,
reflection, reloading, deploying, porting -- that's where Python starts to
shine.

Twisted is code which will probably only be written once, at least by me.  
It _should_ only be written once.  However, just because I hide the call
to socket.setblocking(0); socket.recv() behind a wrapper, and only call it
once (one line out of tens of thousands -- *highly* atypical!) does not
mean I'd be happy if nonblocking I/O went away.  Similiarly, if you remove
the ability to dynamically reconstruct a module (and patch up existing
instances of classes in that module in at most O(k*n) time, even if
there's a big k), there is only maybe 30 or 40 lines of my code which will
be affected; but it will change my entire development style.  It would
make me significantly less happy with python.

If only 1 function in my entire application has to be written in C, but I
can take advantage of the super-dynamic nature of Python elsewhere -- that
does not mean that it is a proportionally less important feature of python
that it can call C code.

And finally, at the risk of beating a dead horse to its second demise, as
I once heard a wise man say, "It is bad to use eval; it is worse not to
have it."

>From my perspective, usually the least typical code is the most important.

> For example, we're looking into optimizing access to builtins.  For
> this, we need to assume that the __builtin__ module is immutable; in
> addition, if a module doesn't have a global 'len', for example, we
> have to assume that such a global won't be inserted into the module
> dynamically.  I'm only aware of a very small number of applications
> that violate this constraint; I'd rather provide a separate explicit
> mechanism to override built-in functions so that the optimizer can be
> aware of a potential change and avoid it.

You won't get an argument from me there, at least; __builtins__ always
struck me as weird anyway ^_^.

but-making-overridingly-global-variables-is-not-quite-the-same-as-
	making-your-code-dynamic-and-introspective-ly-y'rs,

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Tue Aug 28 07:21:26 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:21:26 GMT
Subject: Multithreading support for BaseHTTPServer
Message-ID: <3b8b7daf.699296734@news.isar.de>

I'm using a BaseHTTPServer to serve up data dynamically. Some pages
take time to process, so I would like to make a multithread server
where serving up one page doesn't block any other. 

Looking into SocketServer.py, I found that both ThreadingTCPServer and
ForkingTCPServer are available. However, when changing

class HTTPServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):

to 

class HTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):

in BaseHTTPServer, I get an error

  File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 262, in handle
    self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
  File "d:\python21\lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
    new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'

Any ideas? Any simple method of multithreading BaseHTTPServer? 


From sam at ddmweb.com  Thu Aug  2 16:45:37 2001
From: sam at ddmweb.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:45:37 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ... 
Message-ID: <01080214563704.01010@frock.ddmweb.com>

It's clear that medium-scale development can be done with any of
these approaches, including the almost plain string substitution that
my shop uses. IMO the differences should be assessed in the light of,
first, the people/organizations doing the work. The more HTML work is
done by non-Python users, the closer to plain HTML the files should
stay. Also, the more idiosyncratic an approach, the greater the future
investment in maintaining knowledge of those idiosyncracies. 
If you have multiple developers working on a project, consider the
system's robustness. If the developer down the hall--or the client
with FTP access--nukes one of your parseable bits, will the page still
load? Our only modification to Python string substitution is to use a
dictionary object that returns an empty string if confronted with a tag
it lacks rather than raising a KeyError. This makes for a lot fewer
server errors. Conversely, it seems to me that embedded Python systems
seem to appeal to programmers who have web sites as part of their
duties and who work alone or in small teams where everyone is expected
to do some of everything and non-programmers are absent.

The next thing to think about, as noted in AMK's comments on Zope at:
<http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/why-not-zope.html>, is the nature of
the job. Embedding logic in display makes sense when the logic is simple
and widespread; less so when you have to birth twelve objects to
display a single, crucial table row. A good if incomplete overview of
these issues by Martin Fowler (author of the excellent book
Refactoring) is available at:
<http://www.martinfowler.com/isa/webServer.html>

FWIW, my biggest objection to templating issues is adding more magic
characters to my systems. At a minimum I use HTML, Python, a
Python-to-SQL translation layer not under my control, SQL, and plain
text (i.e., email). Each of these layers sees most or all of what can be
generated with a keyboard. The solutions to the inevitable conflicts
have to be preserved across dozens of modules, thousands of HTML files,
and several years' worth of employees.



From wware at world.std.com  Tue Aug 14 20:27:35 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:27:35 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997814543.3544.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GI32Lz.2DB@world.std.com>

Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com wrote:
> ...You talk of a THEY as if THEY were a unitfied body with
> a consensus point of view - and it is that consensus view that gets
> implemented.

I think such a THEY literally does exist. There are five guys who
constitute this THEY, as described here:
http://www.python.org/digicool.html
They are Tim Peters, Barry Warsaw, Jeremy Hylton, Fred Drake and 
Guido van Rossum. These are the guys who work on Python full-time,
work with Guido on a daily basis, maintain the boring stuff that
us non-paid types couldn't be bothered with, etc.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug 14 09:54:12 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:54:12 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84ae7.102907$EP6.26280361@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Paul Boddie" <paul at boddie.net> wrote in message
news:23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5 at posting.google.com...
> I can understand Arthur's confusion, though. If you look at the
> original posting concerning the patch, it does seem as if VPython
was
> a strong motivation:

The division change (and some arguments pro and con) was formulated at
least by November 98 (see 'Deja/vu').  Did VPython exist then?  (I
have no idea.)

Terry J. Reedy





From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug 27 14:52:59 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:52:59 -0700
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3B8A970B.FEBA62DB@home.net>

"Juan Vali?o" wrote:

> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
> v[5 # 2]
> Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]

Frankly, I think this really is just unneccesary sugar(not that I don't
like sugar, mind you!). What I really would like, and think would be a
major leap forward, would be to allow sequence indexing:

indexes = [1,4,5,7]

l = ['a','b,'c','d','e','f','g','h']

l[indexes] == ['b', 'e', 'f', 'h'] 


Now you have do do something like:

>>> l2 = []
>>> for i in indexes:
...     l2.append(l[i])
...
>>> l2
['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']

or with a list comprehension:

>>> [l[i] for i in range(len(l)) if (i in indexes)]
['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']

Both of which are far more wordy and confusing than my suggestion.

By the way you can sort of do this with Numeric:
>>> from Numeric import take
>>> take(l,indexes)
array([b, e, f, h],'c')

but that's still kind of klunky.

-Chris





-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 12:46:22 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:46:22 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <20010824122940.I930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242042450.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > > You don't trust the people who build the website for your company?
> >
> >    Certainly NO! Let us see.
> >
> > 1. Some people do malicious things intentionally.
>
> If they work for you, they should be fired, and quickly.

   We do it, from time to time. But first you need to catch them by hand.

> Trying to make something foolproof is an exercise in futitlity as
> fools are incredibly ingenious.

   ROFL :)))
   Too true, too true...

> One could argue that Zope's web based content management system offers
> more holes for the outside cracker to exploit though.

   I have never heared about cracked Zope site.

> > 4. And there are different types of sites and users. Think about Geocite.
> > Do you trust its users? :)
>
> Of course not.  SkunkWeb was not designed for, nor is it appropriate for
> hosting in that way.

   That's the point!

> >    No. Without a class it is not programming at all.
>
> Ahem...  You are saying that without classes, you aren't programming?
> So this whole Linux kernel is not *real* programming?  I respectfully
> and emphatically disagree.

   I meant "object publishing"... but let us forget it now.

> I guess the main crux of this discussion is:
>
>    SkunkWeb is best oriented towards sites where the site authors can
> be trusted not to maliciously mess things up (e.g. where the site
> authors work for the company that runs the site).  Contrapositively,
> SkunkWeb is not suited to the environment where the site authors may
> be hostile.

   Well said!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From f.steinhaeusler at amatic.com  Sat Aug  4 08:57:04 2001
From: f.steinhaeusler at amatic.com (Franz Steinhäusler)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:57:04 +0200
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
Message-ID: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com>

hello ng,

Please excuse me, if some of the questions are
already handled in the faq.

I want to learn python and GUI programming.

What is better (and easier to learn):
wxpython or tkinter? (in a win32 environment)

Is there a graphical python viewer application available
(like irfan view or xnview)
I would like to accomodate such a program for my purposes.

many thanks in advance!


--
Franz Steinhaeusler


From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 08:33:10 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:33:10 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net>

just a gui for windows...
"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> schreef in bericht
news:slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> In article <0RGj7.12$pD3.125 at pollux.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit
wrote:
>
> > HOW!?!?!?!?
>
> Well, the "default" GUI package for Python is Tk.
>
> Get a copy of "Python and Tkinter Programming" by John E.
> Grayson.  Read it.  Excellent book.
>
>   Loot at http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/
>
> Or, more specifically, read "An Introduction to Tkinter" by
> Fredrik Lundh:
>
>   http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
>
> If you want to try other toolkits besides Tk, there are Python
> bindings for wxwindows, gtk, Qt, Win32, etc.  See question 4.13
> in the FAQ at
>
>   http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html
>
> What widget set do you prefer?
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  This MUST be a
good
>                                   at               party -- My RIB CAGE is
>                                visi.com            being painfully pressed
up
>                                                    against someone's
MARTINI!!




From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 22:31:23 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:31:23 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997695619.20600.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpwv47e5m0.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> From: Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
> > I don't know how familiar you are with Python's C-level internals. If
> > you are, you'll appreciate the problem if I took a list object and
> > changed its type pointer to the dictionary type -- the instance
> > lay-out of a dictionary is different, and all the methods would be
> > using the list data as if it were dictionary data.  Recipe for
> > disaster.  Likewise, changing a featureless object into a list or dict
> > would at the very least require growing the size of the instance; this
> > would require a realloc(), which may move the object in memory.  But
> > if there are other references to the object, these would all have to
> > be updated.  Python's run-time architecture just doesn't support that.

"gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:

> Is pointer indirection here to expensive ?

Yes, since it would require totally rewriting all existing Python
object types -- both built-in and 3rd party extension modules -- and
that's exactly what I am trying to avoid.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From haley at niwot.scd.ucar.edu  Wed Aug 29 17:56:20 2001
From: haley at niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Mary Haley)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 15:56:20 -0600
Subject: optimization issues on an SGI system
References: <9mgsme$cmm$1@niwot.scd.ucar.edu> <9mjl68$f6fu4$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <9mjoe4$gbs$1@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>

In article <9mjl68$f6fu4$1 at fido.engr.sgi.com>, Nhi Vanye <offer at sgi.com> wrote:
>$ from haley at niwot.scd.ucar.edu -#158679 | sed "1,$s/^/> /"
>>
>>While I realize that there's not much a developer can do about a
>>compiler optimization problem, I'm mentioning it here for 3 reasons:
>>1) in case it helps other SGI python users to create a faster version
>>of python, 2) on the wee possibility that there is a solution to this,
>>and 3) I have dreams of kicking the optimization level up to "-O3"!
>
>I'm assuming that you've built Python as N32 ?

Yes, I have:

% file python
python: ELF N32 MSB mips-4 dynamic executable (not stripped) MIPS - version 1

>If you haven't done it already, I'd suggest filing a bug. Of course
>its going to be difficult to reproduce it without a samll (non-python)
>test case. But at least it would be documented.

Thanks for your response.  I'm not very familiar with python source
code, but I'll see if I can't narrow down the problem before I send it
off.

But, if there's a python developer out there with an SGI system and
free time on his/her hands. . .<hint> <hint>

--Mary


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Aug  2 14:04:04 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:04:04 GMT
Subject: Zero division error!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000@seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <oCga7.75798$Cy.10897029@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Prem Rachakonda" <prem at engr.uky.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000 at seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu...
> Hi,
>   I am writing a script for 'cubic spline interpolation' and when there is
> a float value = 0.004, it is rounded off to zero and I am getting a Zero
> Division error. Is it a python bug?
>
> Prem.
>
> x=array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
> 2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104])
> ..
> ..
> ..
> d[0]=x[1]-x[0]
> c[1]=(y[1]-y[0])/d[0]
>
> Here d[0] is 0.004(equally spaced points) and is being considered as 0 and
> I am getting this error.


You haven't posted enough code to be sure, but I'm going to make some
guesses.

(1) array is Numeric.array
(2) d is created in a way similar to zeros([N])

If that's the case, what happening is that d is an array of ints, not floats
(int is the default). That means that when attributes are set using floats,
they are silently truncated to ints in the array. This is somewhat of a
misfeature of Numeric in my opinion, but I don't think it's actually a bug.
Assuming that your are actually using zeros to create d, you could use
Numeric.zeros([N], Numeric.Float) instead.

Then again, this is all a guess.

-tim




From teo at crepido.com  Thu Aug  2 11:07:03 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:07:03 -0700
Subject: indent in xml
References: <mailman.996723367.12395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108020703.16951118@posting.google.com>

try this one:



doc.parse(s) # s is the xmlfile...

thedoc = doc.documentElement

books = thedoc.getElementsByTagName("book") # returns a list of all
childs  #                                             with tagName ==
'Book' :)

for book in books:

  title_list = book.getElementsByTagName("title")

  print title_list[0].firstChild.data.strip()

  print book.firstChild.firstChild.data.strip()  



I think this is what you want to do.:) 



/teodor







"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.996723367.12395.python-list at python.org>...



> I want to get the first child node of one node,but because of the indent 



> problem(I think so),the first two child is not what i want ,but the '\n' 



> and '',the xml file is:



> <books>



>   book>



>   <title>Pierre: The Ambiguities</title> 



>   <author>Herman Melville</author> 



>   <price>9.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>    <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>12.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>   <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>15.99</price> 



>   </book>



> </books>



> 



> and my py file is



> 



> >>> from xml.dom.minidom import parse, parseString



> >>> s="d:\\i.xml"



> >>> doc=parse(s)



> >>> doc.childNodeTypes



>  (1, 7, 8, 10)



> >>> doc.nodeName



>  '#document'



> >>> doc.childNodes



>  [<DOM Element: books at 11502084>]



> >>> book=doc.firstChild



> >>> book.childNodes



> [<DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11610468>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11525428>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM
Element: book at 11622660>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node " 
">, <DOM Element: book at 11630100>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text
node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11637540>, <DOM Text node "\n">,
<DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11644948>, <DOM Text node
"\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11652356>, <DOM
Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11659756>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11667156>, <DOM Text node "\n">]



> ###############   how can I delete the <DOM Text node "\n"> and <DOM Text node "  ">



> ##      and what is the meaning of (1, 7, 8, 10)(the reslut of doc.childNodeTypes)



> 



> 



> __________________________________________



> 



> DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm



> ??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm


From wqh-2 at 263.net  Wed Aug  1 03:34:28 2001
From: wqh-2 at 263.net (sdf)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:34:28 +0800 (CST)
Subject: how can use mkdir to override the old one
Message-ID: <3B67B104.07436@mta1>

I use mkdir('doc'),but this directory is exists,so it throw an err.
how can force to do this
__________________________________________

DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm
??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm







From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 11:02:29 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:02:29 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <mailman.999263627.3276.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns910EADA9EF88APaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> said :

> I'm sure there are more clever ways, but this seems to work:
> 
>     def separate(n, sep=','):
>         ln = list(str(n))
>         ln.reverse()
>         newn = []
>         while len(ln) > 3:
>             newn.extend(ln[:3])
>             newn.append(sep)
>             ln = ln[3:]
>         newn.extend(ln)
>         newn.reverse()
>         return "".join(newn)

Thanks Skip -- turns out the question wasn't so simple after all, and 
TIMTOWTDI :-)
Rolling your own function means you understand what's going on -- Emile's 
"locale" trick is more like black magic, but means leed typing :-)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 11 12:30:08 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:30:08 -0400
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
In-Reply-To: <j4itfudhwh.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECGLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Martin von Loewis]
> Although I wish there was a little script to "make this Python
> installation current". It is not only what interpreter is associated
> with the Run command, but also which Pythonwin (or whatever) is
> associated with the Edit command.
>
> Something like "Python 2.0 is not your default Python interpreter. Do
> you want to make it default?" with a check box "Always check on
> startup", you get the idea :-)

Actually I don't.  As I said, I don't do anything that relies on registry or
envar settings -- probably because I've been using Python since long before
any of that became possible, and am happily stuck in prehistoric usage
patterns.  Whatever, I don't have a feel for what's desired or required
here, and can't be shamed into growing one <wink>.  If you do, submit a
suitable script to SourceForge, and if it makes sense, I'll do whatever it
takes to get it installed.




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 23:40:38 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:40:38 +1000
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
In-Reply-To: <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com>
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0108231340380M.28818@ike>

[This stuff is off topic, and flame-bait, and doesn't belong on the mailing 
list. My post was purely informational. Please let's keep to that theme eh?]

On Thursday 23 August 2001 13:09, Venkat wrote:
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
> news:<7xd75ovsbk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> > avenkat at myrealbox.com (Venkat) writes:
> > > > Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA. You
> > > > just have to provide them with some personal information. If you're
> > > > dedicated, you  can also get in on their web of trust. That allows
> > > > you to have more personal information present in the cert (like your
> > > > real name).
> > >
> > > Why the hell I need personal cert issued by Thwate/Verisign?
> >
> > So when you send someone signed email, their mail client checks the
> > cert and believes it, rather than throwing a dialog saying it has gotten
> > an untrusted certificate.  Note that those free certs only validate your
> > email address (which of course is enough in many situations) and are
> > only good for a few months.
>
> Use, self-signed certs with life time > 1M years:-)

My Thawte cert is valid for 12 months.


> Why should we pay money to thse fucken commercial CAs.

Uh, did you not see the _free_ part of my post? Calm down eh?


    Richard



From drg at longhands.org  Sun Aug 19 18:45:21 2001
From: drg at longhands.org (Dan Girellini)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 18:45:21 -0400
Subject: dumb newbie list question
Message-ID: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org>

Maybe this is a naive/stupid question, but is there anyway to grow a list to an
arbitrary size?  Eg.:

>>> l = [1, 2, 3]
>>> l[5] = "x"

won't work (obviously).  Is there an easy way to do this without building a
second list of the right size and concatenating them?  

I'm trying to drop my perl habits when using python, really!

TIA.

--dan.



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 02:37:48 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:37:48 -0700
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <mailman.998584063.22360.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xbsl69d4z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

This sounds pretty interesting.  How does it compare to Mason?


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 21 11:16:49 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:16:49 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation????
Message-ID: <to4utvgqi9jp94@corp.supernews.com>

While working on a Python CGI script I ran into the following:
Assume I have a form with a Text Input element.  The element has a name, but
I chose not to set its value, or to set value to "" (empty).
I import CGI module and define:  Test_Form = cgi.FieldStorage()
1.  PythonWin documentation of Python states the following:
Form fields containing empty strings are ignored and do not appear in the
dictionary; to keep such values, provide the optional "keep_blank_values"
argument when creating the FieldStorage instance.
Question:  How do you provide this argument?
Test_Form=cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values)??  This is not working.

Ok!  I am not going to provide this argument.  So, the Text Input element
that I left empty and had not provided a vlaue for should NOT make it into
FieldStorage() if user does not type some characters in it.  Right?  I tried
it.  It does not make it.
Even if I provide a value of " " (is " " an empty string??)

2.  BUT, read on:
check http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/sd99east/sld041.htm  Slide # 40
<form method="POST" action="http://host.com/cgi-bin/test.py">
Your first name: <input type="text" name="firstname">
<submit button goes here>
<input type="hidden" name="session" value="1f9a2">
</form>

Ok!  So here it is, a Text Input element with no value.  From the
documentation above in 1., this element should not be in FieldStorage unless
one types in something.
Now, move into Slide 41:
 print "Content-type: text/html\n"
 form = cgi.FieldStorage()     # parse query
 if form.has_key("firstname")  and  form["firstname"].value != "":
      print "Hello", form["firstname"].value
else:
      print "Error! Please enter first name."

Of interest is:   if form.has_key("firstname")  and  form["firstname"].value
!= ""
How come we are checking for the key AND that the vlaue of the key is not
""?  Is not that code assuming that a non-empty string can be included in
FieldStorage() without using keep_blank_values?  Thus a contradiction with
what point 1. has to say about it?

I am really trying to understand this.  Can someone help?
Thanks,
Maan




From dcinege at psychosis.com  Fri Aug 24 22:19:34 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:19:34 -0400
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
Message-ID: <3B870B36.4071C1CC@psychosis.com>

keywords: modify argv change process listing argv[0] ps output

This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
As you might have guessed this allows one to change to absolute
argv values of the python process itself. (It is of great wonder
to me why this functionality is not already available...)

I have intentionally left the patch with minimal sanity
checking. Ignorance of detail could lead to dangerous
results. Stronger bountries may be desirable in a final
implementation.

The patch is against Python 2.1.1. Adding this function to another
module or placing it in your own module should be a trvial task.
It is self contained using Py_GetArgcArgv() to grab the location
of argv, already present in the python core.

This patch has been submitted for inclusion into core python.

Documentation on it's use is in the patch itself.

I hereby place this code into the public domain. 

'Diesel' Dave 'Kill a Cop' Cinege
-------------- next part --------------
*** sysmodule.c.orig	Thu Aug 16 21:37:00 2001
--- sysmodule.c	Fri Aug 24 21:48:06 2001
***************
*** 180,185 ****
--- 180,263 ----
  implementation.";
  
  static PyObject *
+ sys_modify_argv(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
+ {	
+ 	extern void Py_GetArgcArgv(int *argc, char ***argv);
+ 	
+ 	char **argv, *argv_new;
+ 	int start = 1, amt = 1;
+ 	int i, argc, end;
+ 	
+ 	if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s|ii", &argv_new, &start, &amt))
+ 		return NULL;    
+ 
+ 	if (amt <= 0) {
+ 		PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ValueError, "amount must be greater then zero");
+ 		return NULL;
+ 	}
+ 	
+ 	Py_GetArgcArgv(&argc,&argv);
+ 	
+ 	if (start < 0) {
+ 		PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ValueError, "start must be greater or equal to zero");
+ 		return NULL;
+ 	}
+ 	if (start >= argc) {
+ 		PyErr_SetString(PyExc_ValueError, "start must not exceed argc");
+ 		return NULL;
+ 	}
+ 
+ 	if ((amt - start) > argc)	// Never run beyond last allocated element
+ 		amt = (start - argc);
+ 	end = start + amt - 1;
+ 
+ 	for (i = start; i <= end; i++) {
+ 		char *p_argv;
+ 		
+ 		for (p_argv = argv[i]; *p_argv != 0;) {	// Zero old string 
+ 			*p_argv = 0;  p_argv++;
+ 		}
+ 		// Replace old with new, if there is a new
+ 		for (p_argv = argv[i]; *argv_new != 0 && *argv_new != ',';) {	
+ 			*p_argv = *argv_new;
+ 			p_argv++; argv_new++;
+ 		}
+ 		if (*argv_new == ',')	argv_new++;	// Next if there is new remaining.
+ 	}
+ 
+ 	return Py_None;
+ }
+ 
+ static char modify_argv_doc[] =
+ "modify_argv(string,[start],[amount])\n\
+ \n\
+ Modify the absolute argv (process listing) elements of the python process.\n\
+ Element values are set to zero, then refilled if a replacement value\n\
+ is present. Note: sys.argv will not be changed.\n\
+ \n\
+ string: Comma seperated string of element replacement values.\n\
+ 	Lack of a replacement value for an element will only clear\n\
+ 	the element.\n\
+ start:	argv element to begin with. Default: 1\n\
+ amount:	amount of elements to change. Never exceeds argc. Default: 1\n\
+ \n\
+ WARNING: Unexpected or dangerous results can occur if replacment values\n\
+          exceed the length of the orginal elements.\n\
+ \n\
+ Examples -\n\
+ sys.modify_argv('script') OR ('script',1) OR ('script',1,1)\n\
+ Before:	/usr/local/bin/python ./t.py argument1 argument2 argument3 argument4\n\
+ After:	/usr/local/bin/python script argument1 argument2 argument3 argument4\n\
+ \n\
+ sys.modify_argv('Python',0, len(sys.argv) + 1)\n\
+ Before:	/usr/local/bin/python ./t.py argument1 argument2 argument3 argument4\n\
+ After:	Python\n\
+ \n\
+ sys.modify_argv('script,,[hidden],arg3',1,4)\n\
+ Before: /usr/local/bin/python ./t.py argument1 argument2 argument3 argument4\n\
+ After:	/usr/local/bin/python script           [hidden]  arg3      argument4";
+ 
+ static PyObject *
  sys_setdefaultencoding(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
  {
  	char *encoding;
***************
*** 415,420 ****
--- 493,499 ----
  #ifdef USE_MALLOPT
  	{"mdebug",	sys_mdebug, 1},
  #endif
+ 	{"modify_argv", sys_modify_argv, 1, modify_argv_doc},
  	{"setdefaultencoding", sys_setdefaultencoding, 1,
  	 setdefaultencoding_doc}, 
  	{"setcheckinterval",	sys_setcheckinterval, 1,

From Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com  Mon Aug 13 12:34:46 2001
From: Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com (Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:34:46 -0500
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <008EABFF.N22121@rsmi.com>

Tim writes - 

>I'll spell it out:  I don't care about VPython.  Never did.  

Nor do most of the community focus particularly or care
more than superficially about the CP4E initiative.  Happens
I follow it closely and my involvement with Python is focused
there.

So I am reporting from the front.

And yes I quite resent and find destructive the prominence of 
the role and access given to Carnegie Mellon.

How do I say this without sounding harebrained.

The academics have had their thirty years shot at designing
a language ideal for learning - and failed.  I would like not
to see them hijack Python into making the same mistakes.

Alice tacks an educational intent onto to its VR meanderings. 

I won't go further - other than to say that if it represents an educational
philosophy at all, it is one at the fringes - and deservedly so.  

Python's potential in education, on the other hand,  is right 
down the middle mainstream. 

It is further discouraging that I, as you have correctly pointed out, have
become isolated from the community for pressing this issue.  Because
in the larger picture I am pressing positions, I believe, that are toward
defending Python from the fate of being seen as an adjunct to, and 
evolving under the influence of,  a particular  and largely indefensible
educational "ideal".

ART
 



From baptiste.ledesert at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug  3 05:38:33 2001
From: baptiste.ledesert at wanadoo.fr (Baptiste Ledesert)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 02:38:33 -0700
Subject: dbi.program-error
Message-ID: <2d14aed5.0108030138.433610cb@posting.google.com>

I have a problem. my program is:

myconn=odbc.odbc('db_log')
mycursor=myconn.cursor()
mycursor.execute('INSERT INTO Attaque VALUES(07/05/2001
12:00:00,0,0,0,0,0);')
mydata = mycursor.fetchall()
mycursor.close()
myconn.close()

My database has 6 arguments.the first arguments is a date with format:
mm/dd/yyyy hh:mm:ss

error message is:
dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few
parameters. Expected 1. in EXEC

Why there is this message?

Thanks
Baptiste


From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 13:17:19 2001
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 10:17:19 -0700
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
References: <mailman.998715878.20084.python-list@python.org> <283adf56.0108270848.3b9d159e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0108290917.30a659c8@posting.google.com>

Thanks, I was thinking of going with Alien Web Hosting, but Missoula
sounds pretty good.  Let us know how things work out for you.


From cliechti at mails.ch  Sat Aug 11 14:50:20 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 20:50:20 +0200
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
References: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90FAD42544391cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

"Chris Eidhof" <chris at eidhof.com> wrote in
news:9l3sdq$5as$1 at cyan.nl.gxn.net: 
> Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under
> win98, the webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but
> it didn't work. Who can help me?
> Please reply by email.

www.zope.org


-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 15:58:54 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:58:54 -0700
Subject: passing FILE pointers to a non-MSVC++ compiled extension type???
References: <e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f@posting.google.com> <9l0cgv0229h@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108111158.6ea4e650@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9l0cgv0229h at enews4.newsguy.com>...
> Yes, PyFile_WriteString should serve your purposes (you'll pass
> your C-like string as a char* first argument, a PyObject* for the
> relevant Python file-like object as the second argument -- there's
> a bug in the docs, they mention an unexplained third 'flags'
> argument, but fileobject.h and fileobject.c show there is nothing
> of the kind -- I've just submitted a correction to sourceforge).
> 
> 
> Alex

Ok, I have two quick follow up questions:

1) what is the correct way to construct the Python file-like object? 
Having looked at the documentation and the source, i put together:

   PyObject* py_file = PyFile_FromFile(fp, "somename", "DUNNO", NULL);
   PyFile_WriteString(char_pointer, py_file);
   Py_XDECREF(py_file);

which does in fact work fine.  but what do the name, mode and close
arguments of PyFile_FromFile() actually do?  i dont want to accidently
create a bug that ill never be able to track down in 6 months.

2) the first argument to PyFile_WriteString() is a char*.  shouldnt
this be a const char* type?  surely PyFile_WriteString() doesnt need
to make any changes to the string.  i tried to be const correct and
pass in a const char* but it generated a compiler error.


From Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de  Sun Aug 19 14:47:10 2001
From: Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 18:47:10 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <slrn9o01v7.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>

On 19 Aug 2001 18:28:23 GMT, Bernd Nawothnig <Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de>
wrote:

>>  Sure -- Python guarantees left-to-right behavior of this statement.
>>  First wower is called, then y.a is assigned, then b,c,d, then x.e, in this
>>  order.  But of course it wouldn't be wise to rely on this!-)

>  Hmm, without having true symbol-expressions (lvals speaken in C-ish) it
>  makes no difference which of the different symbols is bound physically first
>  to a value because there can't be any side effect.

Sorry, this isn't true, of course:

v=[0]*10
i=5
v[i]=i=7
results in:

[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0]

And this makes a difference. In case of right to left evaluation we would have

[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 7, 0, 0]

as the result




Bernd


From laurent.szyster at q-survey.be  Tue Aug  7 13:02:29 2001
From: laurent.szyster at q-survey.be (Laurent Szyster)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:02:29 +0200
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
References: <mailman.997171151.24637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B701F24.D90B0627@q-survey.be>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> 
> On 7 Aug 2001, chris liechti wrote:
> > interested in a hack that opens a python interactive interpreter that is
> > accessible using telnet? get the hack here:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/chrisliechti/en/python/index.html
> >
> > i think it can be useful for debugging GUI apps... at least therefore i've
> > written it.
> 
>    It could be used, I suppose, to debug long-running applications,
> daemons... Zope, for example.

Zope is built on Medusa (http://www.nightmare.com/medusa) and that one
came with an RPC interface for that kind of access. It's used to debug
Medusa servers and should work as-is for a Zope server.


Laurent


From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Thu Aug 16 22:03:44 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 02:03:44 GMT
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org> <9l12mo$m7c$1@news.mathworks.com> <ac677656.0108101522.7ee95f6f@posting.google.com> <2065929.XNkdZ6W18F@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3b7c7b80$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Tom Good <Tom_Good1 at excite.com> schrub:
> 
>> Joshua Marshall <jmarshal at mathworks.com> wrote in message
>> news:<9l12mo$m7c$1 at news.mathworks.com>...
>>> I always use '.  Holding down shift is just far too much effort.
>> 
>> My thoughts exactly.  Single quote doesn't require shifting -- it is
>> the 'automatic transmission' of string delimiters.
>> 
>> This also explains why Lists are better than Tuples: typing (1,2,3)
>> requires two shifts, typing [1,2,3] requires none.  ;-)
> 
> Happy Americans!
> 
> With German keyboard layout, we have to press Shift for (), " and ' as 
> we have to use the Alt-Gr-Key to get {}s and []s.
> 
> markus

Why be confined by you country's keyboard layout...

http://www.theory.org/~mac4/aneorits

Change your keymap to program more confortably!!!

nm

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 07:39:07 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 04:39:07 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com> <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998482775.12377.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?  

        [f(x) for x in a]

just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,

        map(lambda x: f(x), a).

Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
the language.



From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 03:35:26 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:35:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
In-Reply-To: <9mnd72$i8$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310333190.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Formalin wrote:

> class now:
>     ....
>     ....
>     ....
> n=now()
> s='n'
> print s
>
>
> the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>
>
> what means?????

Not quite. You're actually seeing the following:

---
s=`n`
---

Notice the backticks (`) versus single quotes (').

`n` is equivalent to repr(n); it returns the text representation of the
object.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Aug  8 16:45:03 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:45:03 GMT
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1> <87vgjymp5r.fsf@xeno.localhost> <3b7193b8.137917594@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <jxhc7.101778$Cy.14864164@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

Oops. I apparently posted a blank message, sorry...brain not working today.

Anyway, this would work now:

   class Monty:
       def __init__(self, text):
           self.text = text

       def __str__(self):
           return "Monty(%s)" % self.text

       __repr__ = __str__

       def spammify(self):
           return Monty("spam & %s" % self.text)

   l = map(Monty, ["eggs", "baked beans", "sausage"])
   print l
   print map(Monty.spammify, l)

This obviously won't work for strings now, but it's possible that with the
great type-class unification that is upcoming that this may "just work".

<pause for download>

Well yes indeed. Using python 2.2a1 we can do:

>>> s = ["eggs", "baked beans", "sausage"]
>>> print map(str.upper, s)
['EGGS', 'BAKED BEANS', 'SAUSAGE']

Cool!

-tim


<gyromagnetic at excite.com> wrote in message
news:3b7193b8.137917594 at 127.0.0.1...
> Thank you all for the suggestions.
>
> I was aware of the list comprehesions solution. In fact, I almost put
> that in my note as one way I knew of to solve the problem. That type
> of solution would certainly suffice for the example I gave. I guess I
> was looking for some more general information about the capabilities
> of map.
>
> The solution using the lambda form that Just and Steve suggested was,
> I guess, what I was looking for. However, I thought there might be
> some special symbol prepended to the method that would indicate that
> the method was to be applied to each of the items in the list;  I
> chose the (apparently confusing) symbol '?'.
>
> -Brad




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug 16 12:35:16 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 16:35:16 GMT
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7B4D56.81E84D37@bcm.tmc.edu>
Message-ID: <9lgso4$15qe$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu>:
| Donn Cave wrote:
|> 
|> Quoth Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu>:
|>| I have a GUI to submit a background job and want the GUI to exit after
|>| the job is submitted to leave the actually big job run for a few days to
|>| compleletion. Could anyone give me a hint how to do this? right now the
|>| GUI stays but blocked by the background job.
|>| Thanks.
|> 
|> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, cmd, argv) might work for you.
|
| The job is a class method in python, not a standalone program, os.spawnv
| might not work with this situation. is it still doable with other
| techniques (fork, thread ?)

Oh.  Well, I believe that depends on your GUI implementation.

I'm most familiar with the BeOS interface these days.  There I would
execute the computational job from a non-window thread - possibly the
main thread, which normally just hangs around doing nothing.  It could
equally well run in its own special thread, but either way the main
thread must survive while any other threads are around, and the
application interface state associated with the main thread will
survive along with it.  The interface windows could all close, but
the application icon will still be visible in the application menu.

On UNIX, you would be using X11, and the visible X11 graphics state
is tied to a file descriptor opened by the client, connecting to the
display server.  On program exit the file descriptor naturally closes
and all that state is cleared, and in theory you can close that
connection from the program without exiting, to the same effect.
In practice I don't know how easy that will be from your particular
toolkit.  I see Chris Liechti shows how to get the threads running
for this experiment, and the rest is up to you.

But I would instead try to fork a separate process.  From the fork
I would close the X11 connection file descriptor and perhaps all other
open file descriptors, effectively detaching the fork from the parent
program.  The parent can proceed, and exit normally when convenient.
Of course the fork should never "return", so you should put a
try/finally around it to prevent that.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From OlafMeding at noSpam.CompuServe.com  Thu Aug 16 15:39:38 2001
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.CompuServe.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:39:38 -0500
Subject: How to access the parallel port under Windows NT?
Message-ID: <9lh7hf$ff9$1@news.chorus.net>

How do I access my parallel port (LPT1) on NTW4 with Python?

Looking for sample code and documentation.


Olaf
TomoTherapy

Please remove "noSpam" to get my email address




From chrishbarker at home.net  Fri Aug  3 19:10:34 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:10:34 -0700
Subject: CXX questions
Message-ID: <3B6B2F6A.52A91304@home.net>

Hi folks,

I need to write a handful of Python extensions, and I took a look at
CXX, which looks like a really nice way to do it. My questions are:

Does CXX work on Windows (and the Mac)? I know it should be pretty
platform independent, but I see no mention whatsoever of Windows in any
of the docs, so I'm wondering if anyone is actually using is there. We
are running on Linux and Windows at the moment, and may need to add Mac
support someday as well.

Does CXX include support for NumPy arrays? I use a lot of those, and it
wopuld be handy.

Is the CXX project alive and well? It looks like the latest update on
sourceforge is almost a year old: not a good sign!

thanks,

-Chris





-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 16:44:02 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:44:02 -0700
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998790578.9547.python-list@python.org> <7x4rqt8z2d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b8a7be2.606820451@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <7xpu9hter1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) writes:
>  >>> dis.dis(compile("'123' '456'",'','eval'))
>            0 SET_LINENO               0
>            3 LOAD_CONST               0 ('123456')
>            6 RETURN_VALUE
>  >>> marshal.dumps(compile("'123' '456'",'','eval'))
>  'c\x00\x00\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00s\x07\x00\x00\x00\x7f\x00\x00d\x00\x00S(\x01\x00\x00\x00
>  s\x06\x00\x00\x00123456(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x0
>  0s\x00\x00\x00\x00s\x01\x00\x00\x00?\x00\x00s\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>  >>>
> 
> The '123' '456' seems to be folded in the tokenizer,
> not passed on as tokens for a join op.

Yes, that's fine.  But '123456' still takes 6 bytes.  Marshalled as a
long int, it would take just over 2 bytes (obviously there would be some
unused bits, but remember that we're actually talking about much longer
numbers, like 300 digits).


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 16:09:02 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:09:02 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp@4ax.com>

>Would you use it often enough to warrant a language change?

Personally, probably not. I'm really only observing that many of
the requests for "type safe containers" that you see around are
really on a desire to have uniform containers. It's easy enough
to create these by hand if your really want them.

>OTOH, if '!' were a unary postfix operator that you could define ... ;-)
>
>def __operator__!(mylist):
>    return type(mylist) in (type(()),type([])) and \
>  len([x for x in mylist if type(x)!=type(mylist[0])])==0)

That would be kind of cool.

C//



From smt at pacific.net.hk  Tue Aug 28 04:17:13 2001
From: smt at pacific.net.hk (Kenneth Tsang)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:17:13 +0800
Subject: newbie: activepython extensions, win32, COM
References: <9mf02r$1c8$1@hfc.pacific.net.hk> <ds3motskeriubnj6nf9truaj9s6atp2fpc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9mfk62$jhv$1@hfc.pacific.net.hk>

Sheila, it wrks, thx.

KT
--

--
Kenneth Tsang
email: smt at pacific.net.hk tel: +852 9468 4772
"Sheila King" <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:ds3motskeriubnj6nf9truaj9s6atp2fpc at 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:34:12 +0800, "Kenneth Tsang" <smt at pacific.net.hk>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article <9mf02r$1c8$1 at hfc.pacific.net.hk>:
>
> :
> :win32all.exe, build 140 (3.5 Mb) (for use with PythonLabs Python 2.1)
>
> This one. Build 140 for Python 2.1.1.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/
>




From tksee at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 19:40:50 2001
From: tksee at yahoo.com (Tksee Lhsoh)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:40:50 +0900
Subject: Unicode File Conversion
References: <3B69158B.40EB156C@yahoo.com> <j4puaea0d1.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3B69E502.48DA5961@yahoo.com>

Thank you Martin for answering me again!

I think my representation in the previous article was wrong. Sorry!

I would like to convert unicode strings to strings of a ceratin code such
as
ISO 8859-1 and ISO 8859-2 in Europe, ISO 8859-7 in Greece,
EUC and Shift-JIS in Japan,...

And would be really glad if there are any converters!

Thanks.

> > I would like to convert unicode strings to a certain code
> > such as "Thai, Korean, Greek,...".
> >
> > Is there any converter or something useful for above purpose ?
>
> Thai, Korean, and Greek are natural languages, not codes. You need to
> pick an encoding first. If you want to use an encoding that can
> represent all those languages, I recommend UTF-8. If you need any
> other encoding, please let us know what it is.



From polopunk209 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 00:31:48 2001
From: polopunk209 at hotmail.com (Josh)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 21:31:48 -0700
Subject: Are There Free Webservers With Python Supported?
Message-ID: <d0a9c74e.0108172031.7f46ca16@posting.google.com>

I'm running Windows 98SE, and I'm wondering if there is a free
webserver that supports Python? I couldn't find any documentation on
this on the webisites i visited, Tripod, Angelfire...etc. Any help?


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 03:34:15 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 00:34:15 -0700
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
> Ones you find interesting.
> 
> For example, if you are interested in email encryption, you might
> want to have a look at my herprip program,
> <http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/herbrip.html>.

Is there some reason you've defined your own protocol instead of just
using S/MIME or OpenPGP?


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 15 21:00:03 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:00:03 +1000
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <m3zo91vvj1.fsf@wilma.localdomain>
References: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com> <mailman.997747222.2714.python-list@python.org> <m3zo91vvj1.fsf@wilma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <01081611000303.01472@ike>

On Thursday 16 August 2001 07:54, Harry George wrote:
> An alternative, allowing you to run several different verisons of
> python:
>
> as root edit a file "/usr/local/bin/py21":
> #---edit------------
> export PYTHONHOME=/usr/local
> export
> PYTHONPATH=${PYTHONHOME}/lib/python2.1:${PYTHONHOME}/lib/python2.1/site-apc
>kages ${PYTHONHOME}/bin/python2.1 $@
> #---end edit-----------
> and do
>    chmod +755 py21
> 
> Then you can run python 2.1 stuff with "py21" and python 1.5.2 with
> "python".  This may be important if some system scripts depend on one
> version or the other.

You don't actually need to jump through these hoops.
Python 1.5.2 will have had its library files installed in /usr/lib/python1.5. 
Python 2.1.1 will have had its library files installed in /usr/lib/python2.1.

Python 1.5.2 will never look in 2.1's lib directory, and vice-versa. It 
doesn't matter where the python binary is located, or what it's called, the 
PYTHONHOME of "/usr" is hard-coded as the place to look for the library 
directory if no other directory is supplied.

Note that if the directory that python is in contains a lib/python<version>/ 
directory, this will be used as the default search path (hence you can test 
python when it's built but not installed).

Also, if python is in /home/richard/bin/python, and 
/home/richard/lib/python<version> exists, that will be used as the default 
search path.

I'm not sure what the "minimal" set of modules/directories are required for 
/home/richard/lib/python<version> to be recognised though.

Python's quite smart about these things...

>From the python man page (the only reference I could find regarding search 
paths...)

       PYTHONPATH
              Augments  the default search path for module files.
              The format is the same as the shell's $PATH: one or
              more directory pathnames separated by colons.  Non-
              existant directories  are  silently  ignored.   The
              default  search path is installation dependent, but
              generally begins with ${prefix}/lib/python<version>
              (see PYTHONHOME above).  The default search path is
              always appended to $PYTHONPATH.  If a script  argu?
              ment  is given, the directory containing the script
              is inserted in the path in  front  of  $PYTHONPATH.
              The  search  path  can be manipulated from within a
              Python program as the variable sys.path .


    Richard



From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Fri Aug  3 14:25:43 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 13:25:43 -0500
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
Message-ID: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

        I've been a Unix system adminstrator for about 7 years now,
longer if you count my student admin jobs.  With a few, brief
exceptions, I have always worked places with small computing budgets.
We can't afford sexy system management packages which can sometimes
cost in the US$100,000s.  I mean things like Tivoli, CA Unicenter,
Bull's OpenMaster, etc.

        About once a year I run into some situation where I *want*
something like one of these tools.  Like many academic sites, we
started small with a handful of Unix machines and a few dozon users.
Now we have 100s of users and about 70 Unix machines all doing
different jobs.  Now I regularly have to rewrite or at least try to
fix the tools that worked with 15 machines but now fall down: a mass
of shell scripts, C and perl glommed together with duct tape, caffeine
and cheap, grad-student labor.

        It may all just make me crazy.  Our old user management system
(perl and some C) had a unique and beautiful problem.  It generated
/etc/passwd and /etc/group from a single data file.  An extra space at
the end of a line could cause some confusion in the parsing, and what
you sometimes got was a recreated /etc/passwd with the names and UIDs
slightly out of alignment.  It was a wonder to behold, a nightmare to
fix.  That system is gone now.

        As the years go by I keep reimplementing these things (if
we're lucky, we buy something) and I can't help but wonder if there
isn't some Better Way.  I keep writing these tools, but they can't
chat with each other.

        Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
*infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."  I've been working
on a system monitoring tool for several years now, so I have some
experience in writing distributed systems that, so I already have some
ideas.  My thoughts right now lean toward a central communications
daemon/dispatcher attached to a database with various other daemons
devoted to specfic tasks:

    * keep track of machine data (my current worry)
    * user data (including fiscal data if necessary)
    * system monitoring, event and problem notification
    * for the adventurous, things like printer and job control, etc...
      (this should be a infrastructure, and it should be easy
      to plug in whatever you can think up)

Of course there are free various tools that do these sorts of things
out there, but they don't exactly play well together, if at all.  I
have ideas on how communication should work, and though I have avoided
the XML kool-aid up to now, I'm willing to concede XML-RPC might be
useful here.

        I'd rather not do this alone. So, if there are other Unix
admins, or NT admins, for that matter, who want to see their favorite
language used to develop something like this and are willing to do
some actual work, please contact me.  If there's no interest, I'll
just crawl back into my office and hush up. :)

-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org


From piercew at hushmail.com  Mon Aug 13 20:32:06 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:32:06 -0700
Subject: Problems running a compiled script on Windows.
References: <9d848d5d.0108121554.541bfa06@posting.google.com> <3B771FBA.B73C3F07@engcorp.com> <9d848d5d.0108130707.1b3b8d10@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108131632.1365220f@posting.google.com>

piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne) wrote in message news:<9d848d5d.0108130707.1b3b8d10 at posting.google.com>...
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3B771FBA.B73C3F07 at engcorp.com>...
> > Wayne wrote:
> > > 
> > > I just finished a program/script and compiled it (can't have an
> > > interpreter on the dest. machine).  When I run the .py from the
> > > command line it works fine, however, when I run the .exe from the
> > > command line it doesn't work.  It also doesn't work when I run it from
> > > Explorer.
> > 
> > Always describe *how* something doesn't work.  What are the
> > symptoms?  Does the computer crash?  Does nothing appear to 
> > happen?  Does everything work *except* some minor part of 
> > the logic?  It could be any of these or a zillion other things.
> > (Describing what "works fine" means in the case of your
> > program might be of some help, too.)
> 
> Sorry, I didn't realize how vague that post was when writing it. :-/ 
> Thank you for your patience.
> 
> > Also, there is no standard Python way to create .exe files 
> > on Windows.  Which method did you use?
> 
> I figured out what the problem here was. When Standalone.py created
> the .exe it excluded the 'posixpath' module automatically. My script
> needed that, which is why it worked when running interactively but not
> when compiled.
> 
> > You imply that even the .py doesn't work from Explorer.  Maybe
> > the issue has nothing to do with the .exe, and everything to
> > do with a problem related to the reason it won't run in 
> > Explorer.  Are you perhaps looking at two different problems?
> > (If you run a .py from Explorer, it just opens a console 
> > anyway.  Were you running it as a .pyw, or invoking pythonw
> > directly, or was this whole assumption wrong?)
> 
> I think the other problem with the script running from the command
> line and not explorer was relating to the "__name__='__main__':" code.
>  When I removed that it works fine; I just call the class at the end
> of the script.
> 
> > > I'm using Active Python 2.1.1 with Qt on Win2K.  I've tried to find
> > > all the instances of stdout and stderr that might require console.
> > 
> > Neither stdout nor stderr *require* the console.  That is, the program 
> > will run fine without a console, other than that any output sent to
> > those files will not appear anywhere, which could obviously
> > prevent some programs from appearing to work.  Is your program 
> > failing in some other way, and you are assuming it is because
> > you have prints which can't "go" anywhere?  I'm not sure
> > there is enough information in your post to point out an obvious
> > place to look for a fix... (of course, that has rarely stopped
> > some people in this group from providing useful and correct 
> > answers, but it might help a little :-)
> 
> Ok, thanks.  I've been trying to figure out how to 'hide' the output
> from the BaseHTTPServer...unfortunately there is no /dev/null on NT.
> 
> One item that is still confusing me is using Standalone.py with Qt.  I
> designed the form in BlackAdder and compiled to an exe.  When the
> program is run from a DOS prompt it returns to another prompt, the
> same for explorer.
> 
> When I run the program with either python or pythonw against the
> uncompiled script it works fine and shows the dialog.  The reason this
> is a little confusing is that I've written other BA programs and
> compiled them with Standalone.py without making any modifications.
> 
> When I run the program from the "dist" directory I get the following
> error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 98, in _import_hook
>     top_module = self._import_top_module(parts[0])
>   File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 184, in
> _import_top_module
>     module = item.import_top(name)
>   File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 211, in import_top
>     return self._import_one(None, name, name)
>   File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 266, in _import_one
>     module = self._process_result(result, fqname)
>   File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 295, in
> _process_result
>     exec code in module.__dict__
>   File "mgt.py", line 9, in ?
>   File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 101, in
> _import_hook
>     raise ImportError, 'No module named ' + fqname
> ImportError: No module named qt
> 
> If I try to for the inclusion of qt by adding an "includes=qt" line to
> the .cfg file for Builder I get an error "qt not found".  If I run the
> interactive interpreter and "import qt" it will find the module
> though.
> 
> :-/  I'm sure it's a typo on my part though....thanks again for your
> help.

:-( I figured it out; recently I installed ActiveState's Python, over
my existing 2.1.1 (their installer for win32all said I didn't have
that version installed...so it appeared to be a good idea at the
time).  What I didn't do was re-install the Qt files that came with
BA; when I removed the ActiveState version of Python everything works
again.

Wayne


From xtian at hyperactive.co.nz  Tue Aug  7 20:22:27 2001
From: xtian at hyperactive.co.nz (xtian at hyperactive.co.nz)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 00:22:27 GMT
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <mailman.997178713.4482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b70821f.593038015@news.supernews.com>

On 07 Aug 2001 11:03:26 +0100, Ken Guest <kwg at renre-europe.com> wrote:

>
>attempts at specifying python procedures for vcmd and invcmd only seem
>to be called when the app in initialising and don't exactly work.
>For example, with
>
>self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd=self.validate('%P'),
>invcmd=self.invalid())
>
>the validate and invalid methods are called when the app starts up, but
>neither of those methods are called when any keys are pressed, and I'm
>really not sure that the second definition above is syntatically
>correct, even though the parser didn't catch any problems.

The fact that they're called when you create the entry sounds like you
should be passing callbacks (which should be callable objects) to
those parameters. Try the following: 

self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', 
			vcmd=lambda: self.validate('%P'),
			invcmd=self.invalid)

(Or the equivalent named function object instead of the lambda.) 

elsewhere in the class...
def val(self):
    self.validate('%P')

self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', 
			vcmd=self.val,
			invcmd=self.invalid)

Passing function objects (rather than the result of the function call)
to the constructor means that the Entry can call them later, when it
wants to validate some input.

HTH
xtian
No ants, no pants.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 08:22:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:22:28 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kgpkj02r3k@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Jonathan Hogg" <jonathan at onegoodidea.com> wrote in message
news:jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001 at news.easynet.co.uk...
    ...
> Since I can write more powerful programs in smaller, more readable
> chunks, I think I write less buggy code. If we have to reduce the
> simplicity/expressiveness of the language in order to add type-checking,
> then I think the tradeoff is not worth it.
>
> I'd argue that even the protocols/interfaces idea falls into this
> category. Since the majority of protocol/interface errors fall out in
> runtime testing very quickly, the additional effort that would be
> required to specify the interfaces and the hugely difficult compilation
> problem of enforcing them, just doesn't add up for me.

I agree with most of what you're saying but I think you have
the wrong viewpoint about the protocol-adaptation PEP.  It
most assuredly doesn't reduce the expressiveness of Python,
and the "simplicity reduction" is minimal and in an excellent
cause.  Consider...:

Say that function A receives as an argument object x.  Now, A
needs to use x according to the "sequential binary file-reading
protocol".  How do you handle that in Python today?  If you're
lucky, A's author will mention that x must be a file-like object.
More likely A's author will falsely say that x must be a file (you
need to read code and experiment to prove that A's author
was lying).  Hardly ever will A's author specify what _subset_
of a file's functionality x must supply -- is it .read (does x need
to support .read(N), or just .read()?), .readline, .readlines,
.xreadlines, ...?  Does x.close() have to work?  What about
x.tell and x.seek -- do THOSE need to work?

And what happens if client code starts with the data in a
form that isn't a file?  Presumably client code imports
cStringIO and explicitly wraps (adapts) the string-form
data for A's consumption -- but often A's author supplies
two functions, A(fileobj) and As(stringobj) too.  And what
if x is neither a file nor a string but some other kind of
object yet -- who's responsible for knowing how x gets
adapted to the file protocol...?

Having a *standard* way to request adapt-to-protocol
does away with most of these issues; it _promotes_
simplicity for both the author of A and the author of
client code.  A's author asks for adaptation of argument
x to the protocol A needs; A's client passes any object
as x that can be adapted to the protocol; the adaptation
framework does the rest -- whether the 'adaptation' is
a no-operation (x itself already supports the protocol),
a standard wrapping (cStringIO to wrap a string object
into file protocol), or something specified by the author
of *x* (somebody else again from the authors of A and
of A's client code) by registering suitable hooks with the
adaptation framework, or by somebody else again.

That's not "type checking" as an overhead in development
for the purpose of getting some errors diagnosed a bit
earlier or getting some extra runtime performance: it's
something else altogether -- it's a provision of a standard
way for multiple authors of reusable components and
client-code of those components to resolve 'impedance
mismatches' (protocol differences) that inevitably arise.


Alex





From mats at laplaza.org  Fri Aug 24 11:28:22 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:28:22 GMT
Subject: portability
References: <nvnh7.13369$6x5.3591946@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <3b8671d3.215462018@news.laplaza.org>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:37:55 GMT, LeoDeBeo <leodebeo at hotmail.com>
wrote:

:i'd like to distribute a python application with a Qt-interface (using 
:PyQt-bindings) (developed on a linux machine)
:can this application used as is on both windows and linux??

See another thread on the same subject currently running here...
(helpfully entitled Qt Licensing Hell)


Mats Wichmann



From sbrunning at bigfoot.com  Tue Aug 14 05:50:54 2001
From: sbrunning at bigfoot.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 02:50:54 -0700
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
References: <mailman.997212435.27088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12f02d51.0108140150.74b7fb67@posting.google.com>

Kemp Randy-W18971 <Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997212435.27088.python-list at python.org>...
> Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.
> I have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I want to
> replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump off a cliff."
> This is a comic example, but I need to do something similar in real life.
> How can I do this in Python, running on Unix?

You have had a lot of good answers to this, but I'll pitch in with
mine. I have a script here
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/multirep.py> which will
allow you to do this and more. It allows you to make multiple
replacements at once (i.e. you could replace 'foo' with 'spam' *and*
'bar' with 'lard' on one pass), and to optionally replace only whole
words.

HTH.

Cheers,
Simon B.


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 31 21:55:48 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:55:48 -0700
Subject: raising SyntaxError while parsing file?
References: <roy-2A20AF.21304631082001@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3B904024.1C3B0E5@alcyone.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I've got a class which parses a data file, and I want to be able to
> signal
> a parse error.  Would it be appropriate to raise SyntaxError for that,
> or
> is SyntaxError really reserved for errors in the python code itself?

If it's parsing Python, I think that would be fine.  SyntaxErrors are
for errors in Python code, whether generated internally by the parser or
elsewhere.

If you want to raise custom exceptions regarding parse errors in
application-specified data, then you should use your own exception class
for that.  ParseError would be a fine name.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Even paranoids have real enemies.
\__/ Delmore Schwartz
    Physics reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/physics/
 A physics reference.


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Fri Aug  3 09:17:32 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:17:32 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996737344.3078.python-list@python.org> <3b695793.2250764@nntp.sprynet.com> <3Hea7.17979$9i1.1380804@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b6aa391.1328765@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:55:02 -0400, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>"David C. Ullrich" <ullrich at math.okstate.edu> wrote in message
>news:3b695793.2250764 at nntp.sprynet.com...
>> On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
>> <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >On 01-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
>> > >  (Not that it makes any difference here, but
>> > >  since you undertstand the math so much better
>> > >  than I do: Exactly what definition of
>> > >  "complex number" do you have in mind here?
>> > >  The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
>> > >  real numbers".)
>> >
>> >I'd say it's not the standard definition, but rather the standard
>> >representation.
>>
>> Well, it _is_ the _definition_ in many contexts. Honest.
>>
>> (_Not_ that I see what it _matters_ what "the" definition
>> in mathematics is! The idea that that should be an
>> important criterion in determining the way Python
>> complexes should work seems silly.)
>>
>> > The complex field C is an extension of degree 2 of the
>> >reals R (by the way, the only possible extension of R). To get a
>> >representation of the complex field you need a root of an irreducible
>> >polynomial over R. The standard representation uses the polynomial
>> >x**2 + 1, and we usually call that root i or j. This means that we have
>> >i**2 = -1. This choice is natural, since it gives the easiest rules for
>> >arithmetic operations. However, you could use any other irreducible
>> >polynomial over R, e.g. x**2 + x + 1. You still would use a pair of
>> >reals to represent a complex number, but another pair than you would
>> >have in the standard representation. And the arithmetic rules would
>> >be different as well.
>>
>> Something like that could be very interesting, but surely the
>> sort of thing that could not possibly belong in Python proper
>> instead of some specialized module.
>>
>> >What I believe Greg is aiming at is that the complex numbers are more
>> >than a pair of reals. A pair of reals is not a complex number unless
>> >you specify the arithmetic rules of the pair.
>>
>> It's certainly true that a pair of reals is not exactly the same
>> thing as a complex for exactly the reason you give. I don't see
>> what bearing that has on how a Python complex should work (and
>> hence it doesn't seem to me to be what he was getting at, since
>> he was drawing conclusions about what Python complexes should
>> be from statements about what the mathematical definition is.)
>>
>> >Now *I* would not mind to allow complex numbers with integers as
>> >coefficients. That way I would get Gaussian integers without specifying
>> >my own class for the purpose. _But_, I understand that very few would
>> >have a need for that.
>>
>> Right. For possibly the seventh time: I was not making a request.
>> Just pointing out that when someone says that the fact that
>> floats should always be inexact _implies_ that complexes
>> should always be inexact someone seemed to be misunderstanding
>> someone else's point, which point appeared to me to be
>> a request for exact or inexact complexes which was perfectly
>> consistent with the idea that floats should always be inexact.
>>
>I seem to remember suggesting that complexes should be considered exact if
>both the real and the imaginary coefficients were exact. Perhaps this is the
>point to which you refer?

Seems likely.

>In response somebody else pointed out that this was not really suitable,
>because of the multiplicity of representations in mathematical and
>engineering work.
>
>What has not so far been explicitly stated (although several posts have
>implied it) is that complex numbers are in fact points on a two-dimensional
>plane. If we choose to represent those points as distances along two
>orthogonal axes then the concept of exactness might be said to have some
>meaning for the points at the intersections of two integral values. But if
>we choose to represent an "exact" complex number (by the previous
>definition) in polar coordinates (angle & magnitude) then the same complex
>number would become inexact. Even though there is a strict mathematical
>relationship between polar and orthogonal representations (which is many to
>one, BTW), the transformations would render exactness a less than useful
>concept. A similarly "exact" polar representation would become inexact in
>orthogonal representations.

Hasn't been explicitly stated except by my, you mean. (Ok, maybe
"explicit" is too strong. But when I say something about exact
real and imag, and then I change that and say oh wait, actually
what would be interesting would be exact arg, it seems kinda
clear that I'm saying the two are not the same...)

>Hence I now believe exactness is not useful for complex values.

I never said it would be "useful", and never asked for it.
One point to my saying "oh wait, actually exact arg would
be more interesting" was precisely to point out that the
notion of exactness is not a priori well-defined for 
complexes; they can be exact in one coordinate system
but not in another. (Yes, _this_ point was only implicit.)

> Not that it
>couldn't be implemented if somebody perverse enough chose to. Simply that it
>wouldn't be useful.
>
>which-won't-stop-c.l.py-debating-it-ly y'rs  - steve
>--
>http://www.holdenweb.com/
>
>
>
>
>


David C. Ullrich


From owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu  Mon Aug 13 14:48:00 2001
From: owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:48:00 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

They both work, so I think you'll do fine either way.

Here are some considerations. I have used Tk much more than Wx, so have 
much less to say about Wx. Contributions would be most welcome.

Tk:
+ runs on more different platforms (e.g. Mac) than Wx and is more mature
+ has a nice Canvas widget
+ nice file event support for networking applications
  (I don't know about this on Wx)
+ tons of flexibility for button sizes, font sizes, etc.
+ lots of nice layout options
+ lots of books are available on Tk, and at least one on Tkinter
- is fairly slow (you end up running a Tk interpreter as well as the 
Python interpreter)
- has brain-dead support for copy and paste
- has somewhat clumsy mapping from Pyton to Tk. For instance a lot of 
times you end up with a Tk name that you have to then convert to a 
widget before you can do anything with it. I suspect much of this is 
because Tk is not object-oriented.
- bizarre inconsistencies in Tk -- different widgets often have 
different ways of doing the same things
- lack of a nice multi-line text display widget (that the program can 
write to but users cannot alter the text); this is a famouse Tk FAQ, to 
which the answer is to (gag) enable updates (which means the user can 
manipulate the text), write your text, then disable updates again
- some things are broken on the Mac (menus, file events)

Wx:
+ Wx is reported to be much faster than Tk
+ Python is basically an equal partner to the C++ code, and Wx is 
object-oriented, so the mapping appears to be nicer from Python to Wx
- Wx relies on unique ID numbers to describe events (gag)
- no current Mac releases, though if you are willing to check code out 
of CVS you can probably get the Mac stuff running (depending on what day 
you check it out)
o Wx includes a lot of tools that Python already has; I'm not sure how 
this overlap works out

Also, if you care, Wx looks more like Windows, whereas Tk looks more 
like unix X.

The Python 2.1 Bible, by Brueck and Tanner, (a very nice book) has a 
short chapter on WxPython which should get you going. It also has a 
short chapter on Tk, but it sounds as if you may be far enough along to 
not need that.

-- Russell


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 21 21:39:01 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:39:01 +1000
Subject: Advice for imaging
In-Reply-To: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F079516@ULURU2>
References: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F079516@ULURU2>
Message-ID: <01082211390101.28818@ike>

On Wednesday 22 August 2001 11:17, Tom Harris wrote:
> I have to do some quick prototyping on some image processing algorithms.
> The requirements are to read in a large 16 bit per pixel image, do stuff to
> it in various ways, and then compute various metrics on the result. The
> purpose of this is to optimise an algorithm. I have libraries  for
> accessing and loading/saving the images already written in C++.

Take a look at the Python Imaging Library - it plays well with lots of image 
formats, and writing your own decoder is possible using helper functions 
already present in the library. Also, PIL plays well with NumPy I hear, so 
any really complex computations can be done there (note that PIL already 
caters for a lot of common imaging processing already).

   http://www.pythonware.com/

It's cool - we use it a LOT :)


      Richard



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug  8 16:39:44 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:39:44 -0400
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
In-Reply-To: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>; from joonas@olen.to on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:12:22PM +0300
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>
Message-ID: <20010808163944.A961@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:12:22PM +0300, Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
> I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
> examples

I'm aware of any Python module that deals with PDF.  Your best bet may
be Python script to generate LaTeX file.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug  6 14:14:04 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:14:04 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: rexec questions
In-Reply-To: <9kmg2g018m7@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108062209090.27591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

-skip-

>Right, but, again, you can easily wrap the socket module to
>control what happens -- put your own wrapper in a directory
>on the ok_path, make sure it's also in sys.modules['socket']
>so that trusted Python-coded networking modules that may
>be called from untrusted code will also use your wrapper when
>connecting sockets, and there you are.
>
>rexec is something of a 'sandbox construction toolkit' (together
>with Bastion) rather than a finished piece of work -- probably
>because there isn't much current interest in controlled execution
>
>of untrusted Python code, so rexec didn't (I think) mature much
>after work on Grail more or less stopped.

I've heard Mozilla will have Python applets. How will it
rexec them?

>But there are surely
>other interesting applications for sandboxes for untrusted code,
>so it may be time to design and implement a rexec2 successor,
>building upon rexec to add easier customization of security
>(controlled imports of non-builtin modules too, connections
>only to hosts on a trusted list, whatever...).

That is what Java's Security Manager (sp?) does. This can
probably be explained by Python's usage areas. Python is
not used in applets extensively (if at all).


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 06, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "A pessimist is never disappointed." _/




From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 18:28:51 2001
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:28:51 +0100
Subject: How to pass "byref" parameters to COM object methods
References: <mailman.996941227.25228.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ib6umtgluhn9tdcv7v7cbjpndb3sp9bg4h@4ax.com>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT), Bob Kline <bkline at rksystems.com> wrote:

>An example of where such a mechanism is needed is the Execute() method
>of the ADO Connection object.  Microsoft uses the RecordsAffected
>parameter to return the count of rows affected by the operation
>performed.

What happens is that the return value in Python is a tuple made up of the (VB)
return value, followed by the returned values of any "out" or "in out" (ByRef in
VB terms) parameters. As an example,

from win32com.client import Dispatch

def Test():
    Conn = Dispatch("ADODB.Connection")
    Conn.Open("Provider=msdaora;Data Source=test;User ID=scott;Password=tiger")

    # Set RS = Execute(ByVal SQL As String,
    #                  ByRef RecordsAffected As Integer,
    #                  ByVal Options As Integer)
    #
    # Return value is a tuple, first the "official" return value, then
    # any "out" parameters, in order.
    RS, n = Conn.Execute("select * from emp")

    # For a non-recordset-returning execute, there is no "return value", so
    # we just get the RecordsAffected output parameter.
    n = Conn.Execute("update emp set sal = sal")

if __name__ == '__main__':
    Test()

Hope this helps,
Paul.


From jim at interet.com  Mon Aug 13 07:55:20 2001
From: jim at interet.com (James C. Ahlstrom)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:55:20 -0400
Subject: confused about adding elements to a list with list.append(otherlist)
References: <8e84aae6.0108130241.2163205c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B77C028.D6A5EAEA@interet.com>

Tist Verdonck wrote:

> my goal was to get the follwing value for list:
> [['ab','cd','de','ef','gh'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ']]
>
> what I got is this:
> [['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ']]

What you are seeing is the difference between "mutable" and "immutable"
objects in Python, an important difference.  Lists are mutable; they can be
changed.  Your code changes the original list and appends the same list
object over and over.  The same code, rewritten for tuples (which are
immutable) would work as you expect.

The fix is to use a copy of the list as in "newlist = oldlist[:]", or create a
new list object each time as in "newlist = oldlist " + "morestuff".

Jim Ahlstrom



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Fri Aug  3 01:27:18 2001
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 01:27:18 -0400
Subject: PyQt for win32
Message-ID: <3B6A3635.9BF5981E@telocity.com>

where can i get PyQt for win32 with compiled Qt Library?
i was able to find it with no problem but it requires me to compile the
C++ files,
and my Mingw compiler errors like crazy on compiling it. im too cheap to
buy
microsofts compiler.

thanks in advance.

Adonis



From tomh at optiscan.com  Thu Aug 23 20:20:53 2001
From: tomh at optiscan.com (Tom Harris)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:20:53 +1000
Subject: Installing packages into PythonWin
Message-ID: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F07951D@ULURU2>

HI,

I am having trouble installing a package (specifically the Python Imaging
Library) into PythonWin. Copying the files into the Lib/sites-packages
directory did not install the PIL automatically, I eventully got it to work
by manually adding the PIL location to the Python path. I am sure that the
sites-packages trick worked on the generic (ie non Active State) Python
distribution, and it adds directories to the Python path depending on the
contents of and files with extension .pth that are in the sites-packages
directory. 

What am I doing wrong?

 Tom Harris, Software Engineer
 Optiscan Imaging, 15-17 Normanby Rd, Notting Hill, Melbourne, Vic 3168,
Australia
 email tomh at optiscan.com     ph +61 3 9538 3333  fax +61 3 9562 7742

This email may contain confidential information. If you have received this
email in error, please delete it immediately,and inform us of the mistake by
return email. Any form of reproduction, or further dissemination of this
email is strictly prohibited.
Also, please note that opinions expressed in this email are those of the
author, and are not necessarily those of Optiscan Pty Ltd






From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Aug  1 19:42:27 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 18:42:27 -0500
Subject: How to use python to automate installation of non-python programs?
References: <6b954971.0108011515.355c33a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <27F880C2B016BAFB.E398DE05FA20CEB5.6E176007D363EC7E@lp.airnews.net>

In article <6b954971.0108011515.355c33a2 at posting.google.com>,
Bela Evans <bevans at wested.org> wrote:
>Let's say you have to install some program on a number of machines
>(pcs and macs) - msoffice, adobe acrobat reader, norton antivirus,
>etc.  It's easy enough to have a python script start an install
>program, but does python have any interface to allow you to
>automatically run through an install program?
>
>What I'm thinking would be needed is a kind of keyboard and mouse
>entry macro recorder.  For example, on 1st screen of install program,
>press enter, 2nd screen, click on customize button, etc.  The python
>script would need to focus attention on the install program window and
>send keystrokes and mouse clicks to it.  Anyone have experience with
>this?  Any pointers to which modules I should look at?  Or is there a
>better way to run through install programs?
>
>Thanks for any suggestions or ideas on what I should be looking at...

Excellent question!

But the only answer I know is a depressing one.  Install
programs seem to be particularly backward in their script-
ability (although uninstalls might be worse).  Perhaps
things have improved in the last few years; all it should
take is minimal COM exposure.  I would think the install
vendors would want such for their *own* testing.  I've
rarely penetrated their armor, though.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From dalke at acm.org  Thu Aug 16 18:03:43 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:03:43 +0100
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9li8pj$1f6$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Green wrote:
>1. IDLE
>2. IDLEfork
>3. PythonWin
>4. Komodo
>5. PythonWorks Pro
>6. BlackAdder
>7. VisualPython

You left out
8. Wing IDE from http://archaeopteryx.com/

>All of these IDEs have a debugger.
Yep.

>None support multi-threaded
>debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.

They also threaten it, at
http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide/future

I also understand that
9. Emacs has a usable debugger.

>Despite these IDE's, it seems that most Python developers use a text
>editor to program Python.

I used an IDE with Turbo C 2.0 and Pascal 5.x days.  Then I
moved to unix, which didn't have any IDEs that I could afford.
So I learned to use print statements.  I got good at it, so that
I knew just the right place to put in a print statement to get
the result.

Now I'm in a rut.  There's the time hit to learn how to use an
IDE (and evaluate the different ones).  It's been so long since
I used an IDE that I don't even recall why they're useful.

Plus, I would lose my street cred if I started using an IDE :)

>a. Python is the kind of language that doesn't need a lot of tool
>support.

There is something to that.  I develop my code so I can work
with it in the interactive mode.  Isn't that one of the more
advanced features of most IDEs?

>b. The IDEs that are there are fairly primitive compared to VC++ (the
>yardstick against which all other IDEs seem to be measured)

Cf. "Turbo C 2.0", so that can't be it.  Actually, I've tried
using VC++ and admit to being overwhelmed by everything.  Doesn't
help that I didn't know an OLE control from a bullring cheer.

>c. Python programmers are the kind of people that don't use IDEs.

I wasn't using an IDE with my unix-based C/C++ code either.  Or
my Perl code.  Or my Tcl.  Maybe it's more that Unix programmers
aren't IDE people, and Python had a large unix audience up until
Mark started working on .. COM and IDE support.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 05:07:59 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:07:59 +0100
Subject: Tracking memory usage
References: <3B6D4BE1.1030307@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B6FAFEF.7090002@herts.ac.uk>

I guess complete lack of response equates to nobody knowing of anything 
that fits my wishlist ;)

fair enuff

Mark Robinson wrote:

> Just wondering. Is there any way to profile the memory usage of my 
> program and the data structures in my program in python. I have a 
> program that is potentially extremely memory intensive and it would be 
> helpful to have this info at the data stucture level of resolution. 
> Additionally, I would like to be able to take dynamic alternative action 
> if certain data structures exceed certain limits.
> 
> I can hope can't I?
> 
> Blobby



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 15:56:40 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:56:40 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com> <3187511.KiObB369e8@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <9l1ehe01dbs@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:3187511.KiObB369e8 at lunix.schabi.de...
    ...[snipped: a summary of vtables]...
> And every function and attribute access means one pointer indirection,
> as the offsets of the members in the array are fixed - the types are
> statically known.

This is not sufficient -- the type must not just be statically known
(either declared or inferred), but *non-extensible* (not 'expando' in
Javascript terms, nonextensible in COM MIDL terms, not a Python
object in Python terms) or else dynamic lookup (which it may be
possible to optimize away via dispatch-caching, with some kind
of checking of course -- just as in the general case) is still needed.

A language might define rules whereby objects are "somewhat
extensible" but never in such a way as to require dynamic lookup,
but I suspect that would be pretty stilted, a typical case of a rule
made for the sole purpose of easing implementers' lives shows
through all the way up to language level and makes miserable
the lives of language _users_ -- typical of languages not used by
people who implement them, I suspect:-) -- in practice, we may
as well say that the ability to use vtables implies not just type-
knowledge (static or inferred) but also non-extensibility (either
imposed by the language or -- in very special cases, when ALL
relevant code can be seen -- again compiler-inferred).

> Even with caching, dynamic lookups will never be as fast as static
> lookups.

They'll be roughly as fast *when amortized*, typically in loops
where it matters.  Again, stalin and Self show us that.

> And with caching, you get in trouble when multi-threading:
> Imagine a method that signals another thread, and this thread replaces
> the method. But your own thread has cached the old method...

Clearly such "method modifications" must change the hashed type
signature -- remember I've stipulated a signature check before
the cached method is *used*.  I'd find it fun to see how a
"statically-typed" language would cope with a method changing
(and "in another thread" to boot?!-) 'under its nose'...?-)

> As long as Python doesn't allow self-modyfing code (means a block of
> code is immutable once compiled), it should be no problem (except
> implemenation effort) to replace the byte-code compiler with one that
> provides machine code.

Sure, a SMOP -- not that modifiable code would change that, there
would just need to be on-the-fly recompilation of the modified code
to machine code... still a SMOP!-)

> But this isn't the main slowdown - it is the dynamic lookup for every
> access. But when we change this, we wouldn't have python any more.

Except for some caching and possible optimization-inferences, of
course.  For example:

    for i in xrange(1000000000):
        a.pleep(i)

unless an a.pleep code changes the resolution of a.pleep (and I
don't think it would seriously violate Pythonic spirit to say that
has undefined consequences, just like today ensue from the far
more natural temptation of modifying a sequence one is looping
on:-), constant-expression hoisting could optimize this to:

    _temp_boundmethod = a.pleep
    for i in xrange(1000000000):
        _temp_boundmethod(i)

Of course, THIS can be hand-optimized without too much
trouble, too -- but consider:

    for i in xrange(1000000000):
        a[i].pleep(i)

Now, the Python coder is disarmed, even should he or she
know that all the a[i]'s are homogeneous in type (well, a
map of the unbound method on a might work, if the unbound
method can be gotten at -- maybe type/class unification
will eventually allow that for methods that don't belong to
a class... here's hoping!), while dispatch caching would help
a lot (if the a[i]'s belong to any of 3 or 4 types, in some
disordered sequence, then extended dispatch caching with
a cache of the last few method dispatches may be the
only practicable technique... I'd hate to hand-code THAT
in an application in any language!-).

> > I do.  Nothing will remove the need for extensions, although their use
> > may become less frequent.
>
> Fully agree. The only way to get around this is to have _very good_
> optimizing compilers, and to include every needed machine-specific
> detail as a language feature.

Unfeasible, since machines keep adding previously unforeseen
'details':-).

> If you don't include assembly into the language, you always will have
> to use extensions that don't follow the language's rules.

And if you do, you'll never be cross-platform.  I know which
'evil' I'd rather suffer... multi-language programming (why
do so many people hate it so?!) or having a supposedly high
level language become 100% tied to a specific model and
release of CPU...!


Alex





From paul at boddie.net  Wed Aug  8 09:57:56 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 06:57:56 -0700
Subject: bug or feature? Re: [Python-Dev] ANN: PyChecker v0.8
References: <mailman.997199532.2652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108080557.36f7bb48@posting.google.com>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.997199532.2652.python-list at python.org>...
> I am not sure if it is a bug or feature, but I have files
> named like:
> 
> 01.001.py

Perhaps some sort of warning could be incorporated into the
documentation or even Python itself (gasp!) where files containing
special symbols are used. Imagine calling a file...

  my-module.py

It's tempting, until you have to import it. ;-)

I suppose your programs are not intended to be imported, however.

Paul


From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Tue Aug 21 08:49:14 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:49:14 -0400
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA530B@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

But what if we find out the bunny's name is Bugs? 

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleax at aleax.it]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:00 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python NEWBIE!


"Dev Null" <dev__nu11 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783 at paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
> Yeah, okay.  It looks like just another ordinary little bunny in front of
a
> cave's mouth.
>
> But in reality, it's much deadlier.  It's a Python newbie.
>
> Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?

The Tutor mailing list, for example -- see
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


Alex






From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 10:01:09 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:01:09 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9misj601fd3@enews1.newsguy.com>

"jeroen paul goudsmit" <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327 at pollux.casema.net...
> So, python simply is the best language ever.

Some of us think this, yes, but then what did you expect to
hear around here -- have you noticed the name of the group?-)
Ask in comp.lang.{ada, apl, awk, ...} and you may get very
different opinions:-).

> Ok i heard engough. It's time to get python for me. You just can buy  it
in
> a shop, can't you?

Some books about Python (that you can buy in a shop) carry
CD's including some version of Python (usually an old one:-)
and you can buy (in shops) other CD's that include Python
(but, again, often an old one).

I would suggest you download it from the net instead.  Even
if you don't have a connection yourself for such things as
downloads, I'm sure you can walk into a net cafe (hey, this
IS a kind of shop!) where for a small fee they'll download
whatever you want and burn a CDR for you, or something (hey,
you can do it here in backwards Italy, surely advanced
Netherlands can't be behind!-).

If you use a Windows platform, you can get the latest
released version e.g. at
http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.1.1/Python-2.1.1.exe
(6 MB) or a richer bundle with lots more stuff at (note,
just one URL, you'll probably have to put it together
again!):
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/Download?OS=Windows&
version=2.1.1&build=212&download=/ActivePython/windows/2.1/ActivePython-2.1.
1.msi
(12 MB, plus, it's a MicroSoftInstaller .msi file so you
need the latest MSI from Microsoft -- more instructions at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/).


ActiveState also has pre-built Python for download for a
few other platforms (Linux and Solaris), and www.python.org
has links to many others, as well as a .tar.gz tarball of
sources to download and install "anywhere" -- whatever your
platform, you're likely to find a good Python solution.

> Are all the special thingies included?

Not even the ActivePython version from ActiveState includes
ALL goodies -- it's just 12MB zipped, after all, and the
amount of goodies available for Python vastly exceeds this.
But it's BY FAR enough to get you started!-).  The ActiveState
version comes with all the specials needed to do specific
Windows things (the Windows API's, particularly COM and
Automation and ActiveScripting etc etc), but you really
need the O'Reilly-published book about Python on Win32 to
get full advantage from all of that (it's a great book).
If you choose to start with the far smaller download from
www.python.org, you can later download and install just
the win32all extensions on top of it, no problem.

> Nwa, i'm just
> going to try it! I guess you'll see me here a lot the coming months.

Many happy returns!


Alex





From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Aug  8 07:34:03 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 13:34:03 +0200
Subject: builtin functions
References: <9kr1hl$bgg$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>
Message-ID: <j4g0b2wztg.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Johan <johan at johanjonkers.com> writes:

> Does anyone know why I loose direct access to the builtin functions?
> am I doing something wrong?

Could it be that you use "type" as the name of a local or
module-global variable? Those are found before the builtin is found.
If you find that calling type fails, you may try "print type" just
before you call it. Depending on what it prints, you may get a clue
where exactly type is assigned to.

Regards,
Martin


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sun Aug  5 12:36:30 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 16:36:30 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net> <vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp@4ax.com> <9kj1f602gku@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <6dtqmtg3klt5cosohslg742u1o746n1qqb@4ax.com>

>I haven't seen many such requests.  Anyway, it's clearly trivial
>to subclass UserList, overriding append and __setitem__ to make
>sure the items being added satisfy some per-item test (be it
>a type-test or something more clever) -- is that what you mean?

Pretty much, yep.

BTW, the "requests" for uniform containers I was referring to weren't
necessarily for Python. :)

C//



From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Sat Aug  4 13:41:14 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:41:14 GMT
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
References: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010804.134859.653468858.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7 at 4ax.com>, "Franz
Steinh?usler" <f.steinhaeusler at amatic.com> wrote:


> Please excuse me, if some of the questions are already handled in the
> faq.
> I want to learn python and GUI programming.  What is better (and easier
> to learn): wxpython or tkinter? (in a win32 environment)  Is there a
> graphical python viewer application available (like irfan view or
> xnview)

In my experiences wxPython is more powerful of a GUI library. I think
wxPython is much more modern. However, there are tradeoffs. Tkinter is supplied
with most Python distributions, while wxPython is not. Performance wise,
I would guess that wxPython is faster than Tkinter because it doesn't
have to go through the intermediate step of "Tcl". I have found that
working with the wxPython API was much nicer than Tkinter, but your
experience may vary :)

I prefer wxPython and I would recommend it to you, though they are both
pretty good options.

-- 
"Son, is that spagetti on your screen, or is it Perl code?" - Anon.

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From alberto at mindspring.com  Sat Aug 25 17:42:18 2001
From: alberto at mindspring.com (Al Gonzalez)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:42:18 -0400
Subject: User preference file in Win32
References: <mailman.998673757.30503.python-list@python.org> <j376m9.pk2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <9m963219fa@enews3.newsguy.com>

On Win 2000, you can also pull the the folder from
the APPDATA environment variable.

Or on both Windows NT and Win 2000, you can pull
the folder from the USERPROFILE environment variable.

Not sure about 98 and ME though?

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:j376m9.pk2.ln at gargamel.hqd-internal...
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:21:24 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> >On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Sorry, this is not 100% Pythonic question, but as I'm in process to
write a
> >> Unix/Win32 app.
> >> I need to know where it's usual to store user preference (not in a
registry
> >> please) files for an app for Win32 applications (98,ME,NT,2000) as in
Unix,
> >> we may use something like "~/.myapp.conf"
>
> I think there is no easy way to get this right on all flavours of win32.
Every
> win32 implementation seems to have its own idea of how to do this.
>
> I can tell you how to do it on Windows 2000:
>
> The following registry keys refer to directories where programs can store
their
> configuration data. You normally create a subdirectory
> "{companyname}/{productname}" in this directory. I'd use the second
registry
> key (...\Shell Folders\AppData).
>
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Volatile Environment -> APPDATA
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\
>     Shell Folders -> AppData
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\
>     Shell Folders -> Local AppData
>
> This doesn't work on NT4, however. And the GUIs on top of DOS are entirely
> different again.
>
> >You have to create a private directory under 'Local Settings' under the
users
> >profile directory.
>
> This would have been the Windows 2000 case.
>
> Gerhard
> --
> mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
> web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
> public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
> reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda
x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))




From joonas at olen.to  Tue Aug 21 09:49:27 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 06:49:27 -0700
Subject: Killing httpserver-thread on gui quit
Message-ID: <11aed8f9.0108210549.4e617422@posting.google.com>

How can I set up a gui and a httpserver threads.
When gui's self.quit is executed, 
httpserver should stop aswell.

Here's some non-working code.

#!/usr/bin/python

import threading, time, sys, BaseHTTPServer
from Tkinter import *

class HTTPWrapper(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):

    def do_GET(self):
        self.send_response(200)
        self.send_header("Content-type","text/html")
        self.end_headers()
        self.wfile.write("it works!")


PORT = 80

httpd = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(("", PORT), HTTPWrapper)


class SimpleWidget(Frame):
    def __init__(self): 
        Frame.__init__(self)
        self.pack()
        self.master.title("test")
        Button(self,text="testing...", command=self.quit).pack(side=TOP)
    def quit(self):
        sys.exit(0)


thread1 = threading.Thread( target=httpd.serve_forever() )
thread2 = threading.Thread( target=SimpleWidget().mainloop() )

thread1.start()
thread2.start()


From klaus-gerd.meyer at de.bosch.com  Tue Aug 14 04:26:10 2001
From: klaus-gerd.meyer at de.bosch.com (Klaus-G. Meyer)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:26:10 +0200
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <9lanhv$911$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9l97d2$2pkg$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> They both work, so I think you'll do fine either way.
>
> Here are some considerations. I have used Tk much more than Wx, so have
> much less to say about Wx. Contributions would be most welcome.

what about printing with tkinter or wxpython?

text, graph, picture?





From mda at idatar.com  Fri Aug 17 01:56:20 2001
From: mda at idatar.com (David Allen)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:56:20 GMT
Subject: Pmw ScrolledListBox width
References: <9li3rt$ntm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <8m2f7.1$Mj.2523@typhoon1.gnilink.net>

In article <9li3rt$ntm$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>, "Jerry Gitomer"
<jgitomer at erols.com> wrote:

> Okay,
> 
>         I must be overlooking the obvious, but how do I specify the
> width of the text in a Pmw ScrolledListBox?  I tried reading the docs and
> then I started experimenting  -- and nothing seems to work.
> 
>         I used the All.py program in the Pmw/demos directory as a
> starting point so I have two panes with the left containing the treeList and
> the right open for my called modules to use.  There must be room to support
> a width of 90 characters and 30 rows, but all I can get are 7 rows and 20
> some odd characters of width.

When you create the ScrolledListBox component, try specifying 
"hull_width" and "hull_height" along with "usehullsize=1".  Example from
ScrolledListBox.py in the "demo" directory of the Pmw distribution:

        # Create the ScrolledListBox.
        self.box = Pmw.ScrolledListBox(parent,
                items=('Sydney', 'Melbourne', 'Brisbane'),
                labelpos='nw',                            
                label_text='Cities',
                listbox_height = 6, 
                selectioncommand=self.selectionCommand,
                dblclickcommand=self.defCmd,           
                usehullsize = 1,            
                hull_width = 200,
                hull_height = 200,
        )

Hope this helps.  I don't know of a way where you can say "make the window
wide enough to hold 40 characters" - just that you can specify pixel 
widths like this.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
>This is the `hash' symbol and makes #! at the start of a shell script
>`hash bang'.
Yes, and #!/bin/bash is thus pronounced "hash bang slash bin slash
bash".
		-- From comp.lang.lisp


From plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu  Thu Aug 23 19:22:51 2001
From: plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu (plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:22:51 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m438b$qi5@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead
> of Lisp-style garbage collection?  As Python gets used for more large
> application development, it gets troublesome to make the programmer
> worry about whether the data has cycles.  Also, using a compacting GC
> helps localize memory references, speeding up the program by improving
> cache performance.  As CPU's get faster and memory doesn't, the cycle
> cost of a cache miss continues to increase.  So maybe the GC
> implementation should be revisited at some point.

  [Reposted from an old mail I sent to gclist at iecc.com a while back]

  To quote some advantages of ref-counting from the GC Book of Jones & Lins:

      - naturally incremental algorithm, no need for a disruptive
	and time-consuming global reachability analysis (which people 
        have been spending ages to optimize), hopefully this improves 
        cache/VM behavior

      - work done is proportional to number of mutator operations                  
	rather than size of live data, this is important for large heaps

      - immediate reclaiming of garbage and finalization (of
        course, you're screwed if you have a cycle of finalizers)

      - recycling of recently allocated memory for better locality
	(and perhaps lower allocator high-water marks) 

      - insensitive to heap-residency (tracing algorithms can thrash               
	with increasing heap usage and may require tuning or adaptivity
	of some sort)

   Manoj



From mats at laplaza.org  Fri Aug 24 11:28:21 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:28:21 GMT
Subject: Installing packages into PythonWin
References: <mailman.998613696.18395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8670f7.215242572@news.laplaza.org>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:39:44 -0700, "Brian Quinlan"
<BrianQ at ActiveState.com> wrote:

:> I am having trouble installing a package (specifically the
:> Python Imaging Library) into PythonWin. Copying the files
:> into the Lib/sites-packages directory did not install the
:> PIL automatically, I eventully got it to work by manually
:> adding the PIL location to the Python path. I am sure that
:> the sites-packages trick worked on the generic (ie non
:> Active State) Python distribution, and it adds directories
:> to the Python path depending on the contents of and files
:> with extension .pth that are in the sites-packages
:> directory.
:
:site-packages is not part of the Python path on Windows. There is a
:PEP that is scheduled for Python 2.2 that seeks to rectify that but
:you will have to hack around it for now:
:http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0250.html

I believe people generally drop their packages into the top-level
Python directory.  That's where my PIL, Numeric, Scientific, and other
things went.  Since that's a little harder to maintain, the PEP seeks
to allow putting them in home of their own.  I wouldn't necessarily go
hacking on site.py to implement the PEP, every time I've done that
I've forgotten about it when I move code to a new system.
Mats Wichmann



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 17:34:58 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:34:58 -0400
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
In-Reply-To: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B682A@eden.vmlabs.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEALLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[John Schmitt]
> ...
> What I meant was, if I have a Python program in my %PATH% somewhere, say
>
> c:\bin\foo.py
>
> and I'm launch that program from the command prompt like this:
>
> d:\myproject\skunkworks\> foo
>
> (I have %PATHEXT% set correctly)

Then you're relying on file extension associations, and they're a global
shared resource on Windows:  the most recently installed Python "wins".  We
can't hide that from you:  that's how Windows works (with the possible
exception of Win2K, where you *could* create a different user account for
each version of Python, each with its own file associations; that isn't
possible before Win2K, and would be a total PITA under Win2K anyway).

> I'd like to be able to set a switch somewhere that decides whether to use
> ActiveState 2.1, python.org 2.2a1, 2.2a2, etc.  Since you have several
> Python installations going at the same time, perhaps you can share how you
> manage all these installations.

I don't do anything that relies on file associations (but mostly because I
spend most of my time on Win98SE, where PATHEXT doesn't exist).  Yesterday I
posted an example of a .reg file that changes (just) Python's
file-associations in the registry, and you can use that.  Stick it in the
little .bat file I'm about to suggest <wink>:

> ...
> Um, %PYTHONHOME%, %PYTHONPATH% etc might need adjusting.

If you write code that relies on those (I don't), write little .bat files to
change them to what you want.

> ...
> Thanks for your help.

You're welcome.

> BTW, is your <wink> emoticon overloaded?  I'm not completely confident
that I
> grok what it is meant to convey.  Can you help me out with that too?

Better explained by context:  you can find about 50,000 examples of it in
the c.l.py archives.  It should become clear enough after the first 1,000
<0.9 wink>.




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug  9 14:14:30 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:14:30 -0700
Subject: weird COM behavior, sets arguments to Null
References: <fiFb7.378$5N2.62777@news1.iquest.net>
Message-ID: <3B72D306.4148D487@ccvcorp.com>

dsavitsk wrote:

> I made a COM server that is a wrapper to the bsddb.  (this is unimportant,
> however, as i have seen this behavior from other objects as well.)  if i
> pass a single argument to the server everything is fine, if i pass more than
> one, python resets them all to null values.
>
> for example, vb code
>

[ trimming code]

> 'add/update an item
> odb.set_item(key, value)
> 'key now is null.
> ------------------------

Are you sure that this is a Python problem and not a VB problem?  I haven't
noticed this in any of my Python COM code...

Try writing an equivalent client in Python, and see if it has the same behavior.



Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 28 07:54:51 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:54:51 +0200
Subject: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
References: <mailman.998996203.25913.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mg0qb0gr2@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998996203.25913.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> It's quite simple. file.readlines() generates a true list in one go,
whereas
> xreadlines.xreadlines() creates a generator that has to be called each
time
> you want a line. Generators will never be faster than data.

...except when the data takes up enough physical memory to cause
page faults, in which case it doesn't take much for the memory-lean
generator to be faster.  In theory a similar effect could show up
on a much smaller scale with cache-faults, but I've never observed
that myself, to my knowledge.


> If you test range() versus xrange() for very large values you'll find the
same
> thing, even in the same version of Python.

Exactly -- the same thing: as long as the space consume by range
is not enough to overfill your physical memory and thus cause
page faults, range will be faster -- over that, xrange will.  To
test this, better use a machine with not too much physical RAM,
or a platform which lets you hard-constrain the amount of
physical pages devoted to a given process.


Alex





From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug  8 11:35:32 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 08:35:32 -0700
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9krm84$8ra$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
>
>When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like
>
>  for(i=3D0; i<lastI; i++) {
>    justDoIt(i);
>    if( someTest(i) ) break;
>  }
>  /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
>  for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
>    doSomethingElse(i);
>  }       =

Here's how I'd do it:

flag = None
for item in l:
    if flag is None:
        justDoIt(item)
        if someTest(item):
            flag = 1
    else:
        doSomethingElse(item)

I suppose that technically it's slightly more inefficient because you're
testing flag on every loop iteration, but it's almost certainly the case
that it'll be swamped by the time for justDoIt() and doSomethingElse().
And I think that the algorithm is *much* clearer by using only one loop.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From spboulet at speakeasy.net  Sun Aug 19 16:40:24 2001
From: spboulet at speakeasy.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:08:24 +0228
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
Message-ID: <to13ef3kf4vh17@corp.supernews.com>

Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for 
recent code red queries:

        import string

        f=open('/var/log/httpd/access_log', 'r')
        lines = f.readlines()
        ip_list = []

        for line in lines:
                if string.find(line, "GET /default.ida"):
                        a = string.split(line)
                        if a[0] not in ip_list:
                                ip_list.append(a[0])

        print "The number of IPs in my list is %d" % len(ip_list)

        f.close()

Hmmm. I have a list with 873 entries. Now what do I do with it?  ;)

-- Stephen


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 21 20:51:47 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:51:47 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lv008$bg1e8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Look into NumPy.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Michael Williams" <michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> Sorry if this question has been done to death but my friend Mr Google
> Groups wasn't able to point me in the direction of the answer.
>
> I'm an undergraduate doing a relatively simple bit of functional
> programming, looking at the behaviour of Lorenz attractors. My
> department recommends (or uses as standard) Pascal. I'd rather avoid
> this, and Python is something I've been looking into.
>
> (Amongst other things!) what I want to do is multiply an array of
> floating points numbers with a float elementwise, i.e.
>
> >>> [1.0, 2.0, 3.0] * 4.0
> [4.0, 8.0, 12.0]
>
> Of course this is not the usual behaviour of lists, which is to repeat
> the list making a 12 object list in that example. The obvious way that
> struck me to do this was simply to step through the list by index,
> multiplying each element "manually", to wit:
>
> array1 = [1.0, 2.0, 3.0]
> for i in len(array1):
>     array1[i] = array1[i] * 4.0
>
> The program will do this operation a lot so I'm concerned that this
> should be the most efficient way of doing this. Is it? My arrays are
> relatively small (~10^2 elements). I looked at NumPy's array() object
> and the array module that comes with a standard installation as
> solutions and they both seem to fit the bill too. Is using either of
> these an unecessariy complex/slow way of doing this (and only this)?
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>
> --
> Michael Williams



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 13:19:19 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:19:19 -0700
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <hlionts1hamt30ojl6otn5gm7i02hh3b6q@4ax.com> <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <3B7D5217.F371B340@ccvcorp.com>


Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> I agree. But they should IMHO reserve any keywords they might possible use in
> future versions in a bunch. This would avoid from __future__ kludges and reduce
> the temptation of "clever" reusing of existing keywords.

Of course, if an unforseen new feature appears that doesn't match any of the
"reserved" keywords, there will then be an even stronger temptation to misuse one
of those reserved words instead of deciding what will be the clearest and most
descriptive.

I do agree, though, that massive overloading of a few keywords is at least as bad
as language bloat caused by adding too many keywords.  It's a delicate balance to
find.  My only problem with reserving keywords in advance, is that there's no real
way to *know* in advance what is likely to be a good (needed) keyword.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Mon Aug 20 10:29:35 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:29:35 +0200
Subject: dumb newbie list question
References: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org> <3B80427F.53E233FB@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> <9lqkfk010m@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B811ECF.6332CEA6@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi again,

> > > Maybe this is a naive/stupid question, but is there anyway to grow a
> list to an
> > > arbitrary size?  Eg.:
> > > >>> l = [1, 2, 3]
> > > >>> l[5] = "x"
> > I believe l.append("x") ist what you're looking for.
> That would make l[3] be 'x', rather than l[5] as the original poster
> asks.  To get 'x' into l[5], something must be placed in l[3] and
> l[4] as well, e.g.:
[good solution]

You're right, I think I was a bit too fast to answer on that one ;-)

Kudos, Dietmar


From breakfast at 10.am  Fri Aug 31 05:24:15 2001
From: breakfast at 10.am (mallum)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:24:15 +0100
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301932530.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <20010831001211.A325@10.am> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301932530.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <20010831102415.A340@10.am>

on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 07:41:00PM -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> Never underestimate the power of strace ;)
> 

If I could only get it to x-compile :(

> > If your interested, heres the target platform;
> >
> > http://www.tuxscreen.net
> >
> > mallum
> >
> 
> Shweet! I think I want one.
> 
> Heh.
> 
> "
> My phone runs python
> My phone runs python
> My phone runs python
> My phone runs python
> My phone runs python
> "
> 
> Gotta love it :)
> 

heh :)

 -- mallum



From guido at python.org  Thu Aug  9 20:51:01 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:51:01 GMT
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:

> I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
> 'natural question':
> 
> Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> necessary ?

If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
silent break.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 12:09:58 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:09:58 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <qava7.64893$EP6.15124573@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <2292880.enx9y0nniJ@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at home.com> schrub:

>> Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the
> ++/--
>> operator out of python. It is perhaps my only irritation with
> python, it
> It was not left out. I was not included.  See FAQ for more comment

Could you give an exact pointer?

I just searched the FAQ (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=all) 
- but I didn't find anything about this.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From graz at mindless.com  Mon Aug 20 07:26:39 2001
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:26:39 GMT
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
Message-ID: <Pt6g7.27695$nX5.1385944@news1.cableinet.net>

Stephen Boulet wrote:

> Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for 
> recent code red queries:
> 
>                 if string.find(line, "GET /default.ida"):

Shouldn't that say:

    if string.find(line, "GET /default.ida") != -1:

instead?

Otherwise it just counts the number of unique IP addresses in your access
log, as -1 is true. Perhaps you'll find you had fewer code red hits after
that.

--
Graham


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 03:21:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:21:39 +0200
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9ligoo0s2g@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:9lifo8$cdv$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
    ...
> 2) the input strings to the de/compress functions can be modified
>    outside of the zlibmodule while the zlibmodule functions are
>    working on them.

Python strings are immutable.  Strings CANNOT be modified, ever.
Just make sure you addref the string object when you start using
it and decref it when you're done with it, so it doesn't get freed
from under your nose, of course.

> First off, my fix for the second problem involves making an internal copy
of
> all input strings before allowing thread swapping to occur.  Is this
likely
> to cause unacceptable memory usage?  If so, should I add a fair bit more

Yes, but it shouldn't be necessary thanks to strings' immutability.

> Second of all, my fix to the first problem involves a *global* zlib lock.
> Now, if I put a lock in de/compression objects themselves, then
> on a multiprocessor machine, multiple de/compression objects could run
> on multiple processors.  However, this adds some thorny (to me) issues

No opinion, since I don't have SMP boxes to play with right now.

> http://chabry.caltech.edu/~t/transfer/zlibmodule.c

I get a 404 on this:
Not Found
The requested URL /~t/transfer/zlibmodule.c was not found on this server.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Apache/1.3.17 Server at sea-urchin.caltech.edu Port 80


Alex





From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 24 07:38:44 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:38:44 +0200
Subject: User preference file in Win32
Message-ID: <9m5e1i$1khl$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

Sorry, this is not 100% Pythonic question, but as I'm in process to write a
Unix/Win32 app.
I need to know where it's usual to store user preference (not in a registry
please) files for an app for Win32 applications (98,ME,NT,2000) as in Unix,
we may use something like "~/.myapp.conf"

Thanks in advance

--Gillou





From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug  7 11:37:43 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:37:43 GMT
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5h20ntkj6os12cpdgb0bh80ieiqkjopsdh@4ax.com>

On 7 Aug 2001 08:16:09 -0700, printers at sendme.cz (Lad) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<e34de21e.0108070716.576531af at posting.google.com>:

:Does UrlLib (any other)module support cookies? An example is
:mail.yahoo.com where I must first sign-in and then cookies are return
:for this session and only then I can read my mails.

How about the Cookie module?
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-Cookie.html

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Wed Aug  8 15:48:39 2001
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (gyromagnetic at excite.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:48:39 GMT
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1> <87vgjymp5r.fsf@xeno.localhost>
Message-ID: <3b7193b8.137917594@127.0.0.1>

Thank you all for the suggestions.

I was aware of the list comprehesions solution. In fact, I almost put
that in my note as one way I knew of to solve the problem. That type
of solution would certainly suffice for the example I gave. I guess I
was looking for some more general information about the capabilities
of map.

The solution using the lambda form that Just and Steve suggested was,
I guess, what I was looking for. However, I thought there might be
some special symbol prepended to the method that would indicate that
the method was to be applied to each of the items in the list;  I
chose the (apparently confusing) symbol '?'.

-Brad


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 29 16:58:40 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:58:40 +0200
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999033582.32553.python-list@python.org> <NjVi7.185773$g_3.33739543@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <3046523.MGUh0CODmn@lunix.schabi.de> <toqj9ceb3o0l7b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7404515.v44csPzL39@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Maan M. Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> schrub:

> Thanks for the tip Markus.  I was not aware of this.

Another - even more flexible - way would be to put the string parts 
into a list, as in liste=['input type="hidden" name="'VAR1" value="', 
VAR1, '">]. 

This list could be extend()ed in a loop or modified when multiple uses 
are needed etc. and then you use string.join(liste, "") to concatenate 
it (with recent pythons, one could even "".join(liste) in one run.

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 14 06:24:37 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:24:37 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <9lana3018bc@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141413250.673-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997770921.12166.python-list at python.org...
> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >
> > >         TRACK_OBJECT       math.sin
> > >         ...
> > >         LOAD_FAST          math.sin
> > >         ...
> > >         UNTRACK_OBJECT     math.sin
> >
> > What about threads? What if math.sin changes while in cache?
> 
> Isn't that exactly what TRACK_OBJECT *means*?!  If the
> tracked object changes, whatever thread perpetrates the
> change, the cache will be updated.

Oh... Threads are mentioned only once in the end of PEP.
Another good question: what about generators? They aren't
explicitly mentioned.  (And they are... err... potentioally
active).

If I understood correctly, tracked objects must be mostly
applied to "constants". This assumption could lead to
fast read. How fast write operation is is irrelevant.

I do not understand the following:

    The number of tracked objects should be relatively small.  All active
    frames of all active threads could conceivably be tracking objects, but
    this seems small compared to the number of functions defined in a given
    application.

How small the number of tracked objects should be?
Will there be another arbitrary limit (like stack size)?
(Related ques: are there plans to remove stack-limit in Python?


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 







From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 14 17:44:36 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:44:36 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <10504051.2yBJDM9G5Y@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> schrub:

>> So now consider:
>> 
>>     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
>> 
>> How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
>> that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
>> temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)
> 
> y.a, (b,c,d), x.e = [wower()] * 3

Ouch!

ROTFL!

Oh, well, I just understood that I'll need _very much_ time to learn 
the whole power and possibilities of python.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 19:21:55 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:21:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
In-Reply-To: <3B9017FC.F2758CCC@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311920100.4004-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Jeff Shannon wrote:

> def test():
>     trap = KeywordTrap()
>     "Testing ... %d %s %f %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap

  "Testing ... %d %s %f %(one)s %(two)s %(test)s" % (trap, trap, trap, trap,
trap, trap)

>     print trap.allwords.keys()B
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     test()

 ...

>     "Testing ...  %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap

  "Testing ...  %(one)s %(two)s %(test)s" % (trap, trap, trap)

See if those changes help.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 19:08:34 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:08:34 -0700
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
References: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com> <aCCa7.66499$EP6.15351473@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B6B0EE0.C341C825@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B2EF2.86AFBE2E@ActiveState.com>

Ironically, I got several emails from corporate virus filters indicating
that this batch file is in fact recognized as a virus. It obviously
isn't a virus but Norton is getting triggered on a very ordinary bit of
batch file text. We will obfuscate the text enough to slip by Norton for
the next release of ActivePython.
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 20:05:51 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:05:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unicode to String in python language
In-Reply-To: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010828235415Z-59713@emi1.EMI>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108282004320.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Kim C Tran wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The function win32net.NetUserEnum(None,2,filter,resume) return all the
> information of users and I loop in through the list and get User Name
> and Full name and then I sort the list on Full name but then I got
> this error "can only concatenate list (not "unicode") to list "
>
>
> What is the command use to convert the Unicode to String ??
>
> Thanks in advance,

It sounds like you're doing something very wrong. Show some code.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug  3 15:00:47 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:00:47 GMT
Subject: Precision Issue
References: <81b5a7b9.0108030852.1234fa4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zxCa7.66476$EP6.15348487@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

> Why is it converting my 66.6 to 66.599999999999994?

This very frequently asked question (once a month at least) should be
answered in the Python FAQ, which should be available again at
python.org.

Terry J. Reedy





From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Thu Aug 16 18:44:34 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:44:34 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <hlionts1hamt30ojl6otn5gm7i02hh3b6q@4ax.com>

>    To avoid long transition periods when a new Python feature requires a new
>    keyword, this PEP proposes to reserve a set of keywords "in advance".

A good idea overall, IMO.

>    abstract, directive, foreign, interface, static, yield

I think we'd have to talk seriously about _which_ keywords, and peronally believe
that Guido and team should handle the whole thing.

For example, I understand static from other contexts, but hate the word itself in those
other contexts; it smacks of "let's reuse the word again and again, even though I wasn't
sure of why I picked it in the first place." Surely there must be a better word. :-)

I question the usefulness of "abstract" to Python programmers. With dynamic dispatch,
any object which has a method or instance of the appropriate name satisfies the
interface requirement, yes? I can see an argument for "interface" for other reasons, but
I'm not seeing how these other reasons don't completely satisfy abstract?


C//



From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Aug 27 18:27:37 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:27:37 GMT
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
References: <mailman.998772879.5363.python-list@python.org> <9md6uq01ojv@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b8ac92d.76115157@news.laplaza.org>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:21:13 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

:"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
:news:mailman.998772879.5363.python-list at python.org...
:> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, john anon wrote:
:>
:> > at the risk of repeating an old question
:> > (I looked -- really -- I looked)
:> >
:> > if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
:> > from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?
:>
:> Most likely via cmd.exe, NT/2000's command line interpreter.
:
:...which is now hidden under start/programs/accessories (bah,
:"accessory" my foot!).  Anyway, perhaps more common ways to
:pass command-line args to Python programs on Win2000 &c are:
:
:Start/Run...: you can pass a full commandline there,
:    including arguments
:
:Shortcuts: when you make a shortcut (.LNK file) to your
:    program you get to define all of the commandline
:    arguments (rightclick/Properties/Shortcut, edit the
:    Target textfield).

That's handy if the script is always going to be called with the
/same/ set of arguments.  If you call your script with /different/
arguments it's not quite time for a shortcut...

My answer is there's a shortcut all right... to cmd.exe (with the
appropriate starting directory for all my Python stuff filled in in
the shorcut properties).
 
Mats Wichmann



From a11w at SoftHome.net  Fri Aug 10 11:41:53 2001
From: a11w at SoftHome.net (Jiba)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:41:53 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
Message-ID: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net>

I've just read http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html :

> There's one very specific (and fortunately uncommon) bug that used to go undetected, but which is now reported as an error: 

class A:
	def foo(self): pass

class B(A): pass

class C(A):
	def foo(self):
		B.foo(self)

What about using wrappers ? Say, i've an instance o of class O. I can
call :

O.method(o)

but what occurs if o is a wrapper to oo, an instance of O (Like a
Bastion-wrapper) ?

Obviously, if o is a wrapper, we can call o.method(), but...
By the way, it's interesting to notice that, for wrapper, o.method() is
not the same think than O.method(o)...

Jiba




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 28 00:08:51 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 21:08:51 -0700
Subject: Semaphores?
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xwv3og71o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Anyone got a favorite way to implement shared memory semaphores in
Python?  The obvious way is with an atomic test-and-set operation in
the mmap module, but none seems to be listed in the docs.  Is there a
preferred way to do it?  If not, should I submit a PEP to add
something to mmap?

Thanks.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 06:05:38 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:05:38 +0100
Subject: Ref Count Checking
References: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <4325613.PTg5d078U9@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <t0iq6IAy$gj7Ewry@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <4325613.PTg5d078U9 at lunix.schabi.de>, Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> writes
>Hi,
>
....
>As Strings are unique, and internalized, may be the module as such 
>(compiled code) contains references to the strings?
>
>markus
well I don't have to do that in my extension and things seem to work fine with the external
results. Perhaps I'm being naive when I do

PyDict_SetItemString(attrs, name, t=PyString_FromString(sValue));
Py_DECREF(t);

ie I haven't interned anything.

Would the module need two extra refs as in

>>> from sys import getrefcount as rc
>>> p={'az1': 99999}
>>> q={'az2': 'az3'}
>>> rc(p['az1']), rc(q['az2'])
(2, 4)
>>> 
-- 
Robin Becker


From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug 27 14:20:45 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:20:45 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <mailman.998606076.30996.python-list@python.org> <9m67hc09b0@drn.newsguy.com> <9m6nfh$dc$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3B8A8F7D.2561021B@home.net>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Grant Griffin wrote:
> >But in all honesty, how often do you really
> >_need_ to do generic programming?  I'm guessing, only a very
> >small fraction of the time--1%, maybe?
 
> All the time.  I work with file-like objects, which are file

> handles, or cStringIOs, or StringIOs, or wrappers around file
> handles that allow pushing data back, or wrappers around compressed
> file streams, or popen file handles, or socket connections, or ....
> 
> I also work with strings that can be "" or u"" strings.

This is kind of my point: many of us do use dynamic typng a LOT, but
that doesn't mean that there is no point in creating an easy way to get
majpr speed improvment for when we don't need it... maybe grant will
create what I am looking for. (I am probably only 1/10 as smart as Tim,
so I'm sure I could be any help)

By the way, Python does have some of the kin dof optimization I am
looking for built in: strings. If strings were sinply tuples of
characters, we wouldn't have all those nifty string methods, or a fast
re module, and Python would be essentially unusable for string
processing, and I imagine is is fairly rare t  write a program that
doesn't use string processing.

Personally, I think Python without NumPy is similar: it seems insane to
me to represent a long sequence of numbers as a sequence of arbitrary
objects that happen to be numbers. Unfortunatlyl NumPy is not native
Pythin, and native Python has no concept of a homogenous sequence, so it
can be pretty awkward to even write C extensions that optimise working
with a homogenous sequence (and think how much list comprehensions could
be sped up if we had homogenous sequences!)


> But I do need it, and enjoy it.  I know how to do it in C++ but my
> fingers (and brain) aches thinking about it.

I don't know how to do it (or anything else) in C++, and my brain hurts
thinking about learning!!

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cdelarue at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug 13 11:33:30 2001
From: cdelarue at bigfoot.com (Christophe Delarue)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 08:33:30 -0700
Subject: import libglade
Message-ID: <2c71728a.0108130733.5f5dbd37@posting.google.com>

I download and install (on /home/export/usr/local/lib/) the
libglade-0.16 (and .11 either) on a Solaris sparc machine

I wrote this short script :

import sys
sys.path.append("/home/export/usr/local/lib/")
import libglade

At execution time, I get :
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "WkEnvAdminGUI.py", line 4, in ?
    import libglade
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function
(initlibglade)

what's up doc ??


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 20:42:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024 at news.telia.no>, thomas at gatsoft.no 
(Thomas Weholt) wrote:

> I think Guido has done a great job so far. Python is by far the most
> productive and fun programming language I've ever worked with.
> 
> Introducing new features is probably a good thing in terms of letting 
> Python
> evolve as a language, 

I'm very sceptical about the value of adding features. I don't believe it 
lacks any. *Any*.

I agree with you that the room for improvement is in extending the 
libraries. The success of C in particular, and to a lesser extent of C++, 
is testimony to the value of this approach. A small, within its own terms 
neat, language with libraries to support practically any conceivable task. 
And that doesn't impact on the performance of the language itself.



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 04:22:02 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:22:02 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFB4@intrepid>

> From:	Tom Loredo [SMTP:loredo at astro.cornell.edu]
> I like both of the quick references; thanks to both of you for all the
> hard work to make a Pythoner's life easier!
 
Glad you like it, but most of the work is Chris Hoffman's and Richard
Gruet's rather than mine.

BTW, I have now posted the final version of the 2.1 PQR (baring someone
pointing out a *huge* mistake). I'll start on the 2.2 version now.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From mfw127 at skorpio.usask.ca  Wed Aug 15 18:30:08 2001
From: mfw127 at skorpio.usask.ca (Mike F Winter)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:30:08 GMT
Subject: [Python/C++ Question] Embedding Modules in C++
Message-ID: <9let5g$sh9$1@tribune.usask.ca>

Hi all, I understand that embedding questions are one of the bains of this group,
but I was wondering if someone could help me anyway.

While embedding my python code in C++, I can import and access some system
modules (string, etc..) fine, but when I try to import the socket library, I get
this error:

  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so: undefined symbol:
PyEval_SaveThread


Do I have to link in this shared object when compiling my c++ code?  Is this true
for all dynamically loaded libraries? Thanks in advance for any help.



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Mon Aug 27 10:48:41 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:48:41 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs - Summary (Long)
References: <270c68fe.0108270158.616fa221@posting.google.com> <3b8a2afb$0$296$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3B8A5DC9.8050705@wi.mit.edu>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

>As for my personal preferences - since I was forced to learn XEmacs around
>March, I've grown accustomed to it, and use it for Python, C++, Java, sgml
>and html editing... And I do start Qt Designer from XEmacs to design dialog
>windows ;-).
>
I have to agree with this.  I generally use glade or Qt Designer to 
generate xml stubs for GUI's and write the controller code in xemacs. By 
the way xemacs for windows works like a champ as well, xemacs for any 
MAC OS before OS X is painful and I don't recommend it.  

Perhaps the best reason is that xemacs starts a new python process 
during every run so you don't have to worry about reloading modified 
modules.  Quiting a locked up GUI is as easy as hitting ctrl-G a couple 
of times.  The turn around time for development is pretty staggeringly 
fast.  Easily on par with any combined IDE I have ever used (which isn't 
much actually)

Of course the learning curve for emacs/xemacs is pretty staggeringly slow :)

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug 29 19:47:45 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 16:47:45 -0700
Subject: threads
References: <mailman.999103664.9602.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mjuv1$dn9$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.999103664.9602.python-list at python.org>,
Ayelet Snir <ayelet at kagoor.com> wrote:
>
>We have a project, written in Python and also C. Notice that we call to the
>C part from Python, using SWIG.
>In this project, we created 2 threads in the Python part:
>While moving from C to Python, we use: PyEval_AcquireLock, and swap the
>thread state. (On the other direction, we use: PyEval_ReleaseLock and swap
>the state back.)
>Till here, everything worked great.
>We tried to start another new thread, using the method start_new. We got the
>next message:
>Fatal Python error: PyEval_AcquireThread : non-NULL old thread state

You're better off using the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.  I also recommend using the threading module
instead of the thread module.  See http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sun Aug  5 06:34:55 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:34:55 +0200
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fg7jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 4 Aug 2001 21:41:11 -0700, Lang <bob at tharin.com> wrote:
>Any cgi/web person out there,
>
>I wrote a couple cgi scripts that I use to manage a database.  When I
>send changes through a form, it calls a script that makes the database
>commit.  Once it is done with the commit, it prints out a return
>button (that's all that shows up on the page) which needs to be pushed
>to return to the main page.  How do I call the script, run the commit,
>and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?

The solution Roman proposed works, but the following is technically better :-)
It uses features of the HTTP protocol instead.

#!/usr/bin/env python
print "Status-Code: 301"                        # Moved permanently
print "Location: http://www.rfceditor.org/"     # New location
print ""                                        # Newline ends HTTP header

>I think that this is pretty basic, but I can't find an answer. 

This and more useful information can be found in RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1).
http://www.rfceditor.org feature a searchable RFC index, for example.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 16 20:58:07 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 20:58:07 -0400
Subject: embedded AND extended C code
References: <3b7b4654$0$330$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <Xns90FF4EB46D998gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194> <3b7c5a9f$0$321$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <uy9oj7ba8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Neil Macneale <mac4-devnull at theory.org> writes:

> Gordon McMillan <gmcm at hypernet.com> wrote:
(...)
> > You can embed and extend from the same C program, but you have to embed 
> > first and extend later. See mcmillan-inc.com/embed2.html for a simplistic 
> > example.
> 
> Thanks for the example. I have it running now, and I am starting to 
> appriciate the amazingly bad situations this could get me into :)

Only if you aren't careful (which pretty much holds true for any
Python extending or embedding cases :-)).  It seems to me that
extending while embedding is common situation whenever embedding is
involved, since at least in the cases I've done it, while I may be
embedding Python into a larger application, that application will
almost certainly want to offer services to the embedded Python script.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mcherm at destiny.com  Mon Aug  6 10:45:51 2001
From: mcherm at destiny.com (mcherm at destiny.com)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:45:51 -0500
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
Message-ID: <150a315e5c.15e5c150a3@destiny.com>

Alex Martelli writes:
> I don't request
> a language that will in fact absolutely CHECK assertions containing
> universal or existential quantifiers, nor one that will always be
> able to take advantage of them to further optimization or other
> type-inference goals: just one that will let me *express* such
> assertions simply, which, per se, isn't all that hard.

Alex, I strongly agree with your proposal that a language allow
the expression of assertions which are STRONGER than what the
language guarantees to deliver.

The closest thing I've found is programming by contract features
in Eiffel, but that's really not perfect. I've always felt that
this was something that "naturally" ought to be in a good 
language, but hardly ever encountered.

I'll give another example of how I think it could be used. In
Java's collection classes, or C++'s STL, there are several
different kinds of List. Some are array-based, some are linked-list
based others are for other special purposes. In contrast, Python
has just one kind of List (array based).

Now Python is pretty good, in that array-based lists are the
kind you want most often. But suppose you had a language in
which you could just declare Lists, and let the compiler worry
about which implementation to use. But you would have the OPTION
of specifying some things about the lists. For instance, you
might specify:
   list.willWriteTo('End': 1.0)
   list.willDelFrom('End': 1.0)
   list.willReadFrom('End': 0.90, 'Any': 0.10)
which would be a stack where we occasionally interrogate deeper
into the stack, or we could specify:
   list.willWriteTo('End': 0.8, 'Start': 0.2, 'Any': 0.0)
   list.willDelFrom('Start': 1.0, 'Any': 0.0)
   list.willReadFrom('Start': 1.0)
which is a priority queue. Or even something like this:
   list.willWriteTo('Any': 1.0)
   list.willDelFrom('Any': 0.0)
   list.willReadFrom('Sequenced': 1.0)
   list.isSorted()
where we will insert all over (keeping things sorted), but won't
ever do deletes, and only read from start to end.

Now a PROGRAMMER presented with these specifications (and please
forgive the clumsy form of these assertions... it could be
much improved) would use an array-based list for the first
senario, but possibly not for the second and definitely would
use a linked-list for the last. Compilers can't be as smart as
programmers, but this seems to me like a really useful paradigm.

After all, 90% of the time when you are using the list you really
don't care HOW it is implemented, you just want to use the list.
Only when you are considering the list itself do you want to
know (or care) how it is implented.

And if you're starting with something like Python, than you can
ONLY improve things... if the "hints" were implemented and then
ignored (always using array-list), then we'd be exactly where we
are right now, plus hints.


Anyway, I think that "compiler hints" are MORE useful in other
places (like invariants, preconditions, etc) which are more
useful overall and more easily ammenable to compile-time testing
or debug-version testing, but this is an additional application
of the concept that I just wanted to throw out there.

-- Michael Chermside





From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 09:10:37 2001
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 06:10:37 -0700
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
References: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com> <3B87FDE8.4CE63729@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0108260510.1ddbdb3c@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3B87FDE8.4CE63729 at engcorp.com>...
> >>> lst = [ 1, [1, 2], 2, 3]
> >>> sublst = [1,2]
> >>> sublst in lst
> 1
> 
> Given the choice between the two, this one should be considered
> less surprising.  Well, with 20-20 hindsight, anyway. :-)

Appreciate all the responses. I did feel incredibly stupid yesterday
until Eric S. Raymond asked something similar on Python-Dev recently
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-August/017299.html .

I guess I'm feeling better today...

Sandy


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 03:31:48 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:31:48 -0500
Subject: editors page updated
Message-ID: <15247.15716.277402.563140@beluga.mojam.com>

I updated my editors page with most (all?) the information people sent me or
that I culled from the list.  Take a look

    http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/editors.html

and let me know about any omissions or errors.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 19:54:43 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:54:43 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com> <3187511.KiObB369e8@lunix.schabi.de> <3b74379c.492155281@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <1591616.O8KEF6KIFk@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> schrub:

> E.g., what if there were a 'restricted' keyword (or you pick one ;-)
> which allowed the compiler to assume that a function's arguments would
> always be the same types as in provided default arguments, and that
> there would be no global side effects, and global references would be
> stable as to type? It would seem you could allocate local working
> storage on the stack and avoid reference counting and lookup to a
> large extent.

But you can't save the lookups between different objects of the same 
type, because "same type" means "same interface", not "same 
implementation".

And trickery with the reference counting may get you into problems when 
using multithreading. Assume, you don't increase the reference count 
for local variables - than another thread may kill the last counted 
reference, and the object is freed erreaneously.

I personally think that adding partial type-safety to Python doesn't 
make much sense, the language would just get inconsistent this way.

But I'd love a Python-like language (may be called Tython - tight 
Python) that includes and enforces full typing - maybe at the cost of 
some comfort and possible trickery.

Then we could decide which language to use depending on the task we 
have to fulfil.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From guido at zope.com  Sun Aug  5 20:54:07 2001
From: guido at zope.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:54:07 -0400
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Aug 2001 12:16:04 EDT."
             <200108051616.MAA17753@panix2.panix.com> 
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org>  
            <200108051616.MAA17753@panix2.panix.com> 
Message-ID: <200108060054.UAA21856@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Aahz:
> [posted to c.l.py, with cc to Guido because of the delay]

I'm no longer following the newsgroup.  It's simply not worth it --
I've seen every argument about 10 times now.  There are many others
who will bring new developments to my attention if they deserve it (or
respond if they don't), so there's no need to mail me copies of
posts.  (Nevertheless, I appreciate this one.)

> Actually, I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion of this
> alternative.  It occurs to me that we could make good use of a directive
> even without bringing forward old behavior.  As I see it, the major
> criticism of this proposal is the potential for silent breakage of old
> code, with a secondary concern about the ability to maintain code across
> multiple Python releases.

I accept that I cannot seem to explain it well enough, but requiring a
version directive on all code strikes me as extreme ugliness.  I guess
the problem I have with it is that it's overspecified.  If I write
code for version X.Y and explicitly state so, it's possible that it
breaks with X.(Y+1) and X.(Y-1) but just as likely that it doesn't.
There just isn't any telling (from the version directive) what
features I'm using that are unique to version X.Y.

> If we make a directive a requirement of the Python language starting in
> version X.Y (let's assume Python 3.0, but it might be earlier), all old
> scripts will fail loudly.  This is a Good Thing.

But in all likelihood, most old scripts will in fact run fine on 3.0,
and won't require any backwards compatibility.  (Python 3.0 is not
Perl 6!)

> People will still want to try running their old scripts, so we'll permit
> the directive to refer to older versions of Python.  *All* that the
> directive will do is spit out warnings and errors during the compile
> phase (e.g. if it sees a division operator).  Because this is a hook
> that doesn't affect the rest of the interpreter, maintaining it should
> be simpler, and there isn't anywhere near the baggage effect.

I expect that the noise generated by these warnings would overwhelm
the useful warnings so that most people will turn them off.

I am trusting that people will not switch from Python 2.x to Python
3.x without doing an upgrade check on their Python code.  It should be
easy enough to create a program along the lines of PyChecker that does
a compatibility check.

> Given all the other discussion that's gone on, I shan't whine if my
> proposal doesn't get accepted, but I think the PEP still needs a clear
> statement about the silent breakage that's possible under the current
> plan.

Aahz, would you mind proposing some language?  I seem to have lost my
normal ability to see things from someone else's point of view in this
case.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From kosh at aesaeion.com  Fri Aug 10 08:05:58 2001
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:33:58 +0028
Subject: protection of directories
References: <9l144q$j2v$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <6f91l9.b7k.ln@192.168.0.1>

Alexander Rebholz wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> I don't  know  nothing at all about python. Unfortunately I have to modify
> a pyhton script anyhow. The problem is the following. A user has to fill
> out a form which will also ask for a password. That form is forwarded to a
> pyhton script. With this script the filled out content of the form is
> forworded via email. Furthermore if the password is correct the user will
> get access to certain directories. Well now the problem: If a user knows
> the correct link of the "password protected" directory, he can get there
> without filling out the form. So I guess I do need a script which will
> check out whether the user did fill out the form before. Can that be done
> with python? Or is there any other simple solution?
> 
> TIA, Alex

If this is all webbased stuff the simplest solution I know of is to use 
zope. You would just change the permissions on the object to only be 
accessbile by a logged in user. From what you have described so far this 
kind of feature is just part of zope by default.


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Aug  6 09:09:34 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 09:09:34 -0400
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <9klek202s3b@enews4.newsguy.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
	<mailman.997037168.27615.python-list@python.org>
	<9klek202s3b@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <oqvgk1bai9.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

> > With a broad enough perspective, FORTRAN is a good AI language! :-)

[Alex Martelli]

> We mostly used PL/I (and Rex for prototyping, way before it acquired
> that second 'x':-),

Did you ever use one of those lenient, forgiving, auto-correcting PL/I
compilers?  Whenever you made some error, the compiler wrote "Assuming
that ..." and moving on with compilation.  It amused us to think that you
could throw it random garbage and have the compiler some PL/I program out
of it! :-) That was surely an attempt at artificial intelligence! :-) :-)

> Fortran was better for some of our work (vectorializing & parallelizing
> some core parts of the computation [...]

Those vectorizing compilers were surprisingly good, indeed.

P.S. - The best approach to AI programming, in my opinion, is to never loose
ground.  Some people, when confronted to fuzzy logic, inference engines,
expert systems, continuations, provers, etc., become so excited that they
merely give up on their natural intelligence.  This does not yield AI.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From timr at probo.com  Thu Aug  9 01:25:28 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:25:28 -0700
Subject: Popmail.py Need help.....................
References: <%Pnc7.5649$V43.473350@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <qh74ntsdahuehhlmmcv40hupp0o8jjlnll@4ax.com>

"Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have tried using these modules but i'm getting some errors when i run the
>script.
...
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>  File "C:\Python21\Scripts\popmail.py", line 2, in ?
>    M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')
>  File "C:\PYTHON21\lib\poplib.py", line 79, in __init__
>    self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
>  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
>error: host not found

This seems pretty self-explanatory to me.  According to this, and my pings
agree, the host 'pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net' does not exist.  However,
'mail.mia.bellsouth.net' does exist.  Could you have a typo here?
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 05:34:51 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:34:51 -0400
Subject: Integer division and remainder
In-Reply-To: <slrn.pl.9nkdkj.1md.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENPLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
>    7 / 3 =  2
>   -7 / 3 = -3
>
> This is kind of strange.  Normally you expect (-a)/b to be the
> same as -(a/b). That's what happens in most languages, where
> division rounds towards zero:

[Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk]
> Donald Knuth says that Python is right and C is wrong, and I agree
> with him here. I expect a%b for positive b to return a value in the
> range [0, b).

While I'm sure Marcin knows this, lots of people don't:  the "classic" C
standard explicitly allows either result, so anyone relying on "what
everyone knows" <wink> is playing with fire.  C99 finally made up its mind,
and chose wrongly for compatibility with Fortran (the only reason given in
the C Rationale).

WRT Python, the decision to do flooring integer division was very
deliberate, and not something Guido (or I -- since I pushed him this way,
it's my fault <wink>) has ever had cause to regret.  We simply regret that
division returns an integer at all(!).

missing-the-forest-for-the-ints-ly y'rs  - tim




From m at moshez.org  Sun Aug 12 15:47:02 2001
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:47:02 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
In-Reply-To: <9l3uqe01n1l@enews4.newsguy.com>
References: <9l3uqe01n1l@enews4.newsguy.com>, <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>
Message-ID: <20010812194702.C20DE392B@darjeeling>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> IMHO, the easiest server in the world to set up under win98 is Xitami,
> www.xitami.com.  Specifically, you need (this or the equivalent from
> any nearer mirror) one self-installer of less than 800KB:
> http://users.skynet.be/sky37432/bw3224d9.exe

I beg to differ. For a Python programmer, the easiest web server to
set up under any operating system, except Macs, is 
python -c 'import CGIHTTPServer;CGIHTTPServer.test()' [port number]

Recent versions of Python have this working under windows so you
can run Python CGI scripts. It's not production quality, but it is
good enough for debugging CGI scripts at home.

-- 
The Official Moshe Zadka FAQ: http://moshez.geek
The Official Moshe Zadka FAQ For Dummies: http://moshez.org
Read the FAQ



From daverz at mindspring.com  Fri Aug 31 23:25:09 2001
From: daverz at mindspring.com (Dave Cook)
Date: 1 Sep 2001 03:25:09 GMT
Subject: uuencode help
Message-ID: <slrn9p0kvc.16l.daverz@localhost.localdomain>

I'm trying to use the uu module to encode binaries that can then be sent to
an nntp server.  However, when I try to decode these posts with slrn, they
fail to decode.  I've noticed that where uu.encode uses a space, the
standard unix uuencode uses back ticks (`), though this may not be the only
difference.

Does anyone know what's going on here?  If the back tick is the only
difference, I suppose I can do a character replacement.

Thanks
Dave Cook


From diedanootdie at danoot.com  Wed Aug 29 05:43:19 2001
From: diedanootdie at danoot.com (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:43:19 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be>
Message-ID: <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net>

I can read, write, speak , hear, understand english. I'm dutch, so dutch
still is easier for me. That's why I asked for dutch books.

so if i got it right, python is easier then vb. Only one  thing is not easy.
You can't just put  a control on a form. But there are special thingies in
python who can.

And i've got one more question. What's the limit of python. What can you not
make in it. Vb stops somewere, c++ stops later. Weere stops python?
Thank you for your fast reactions.




From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug  9 23:08:57 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:08:57 -0500
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org> <slrn9n69ao.id9.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <3B735049.4547EC3E@seebelow.org>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx>
> wrote:
> >Grant Griffin wrote:
> >|Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are presumably more
> >|suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how to write
> >|the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a
> >|simple way to do that: what is it?
> >
> >''.join(lst)         # Python 2.0+
> >string.join(lst,'')  # Python 1.4+ (or something)
> 
> There is also file.writelines(lst).  It's not documented in my version of
> python, so maybe you're not supposed to use it, but why put it there then?
> It's been there for quite a while now.

The other day I had tried that with "write".  It went something like
this:

   Python 2.0.1 (#18, Jun 30 2001, 10:36:44) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
   Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
   >>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
   >>> f=open('e', 'w')
   >>> f.write(l)
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   TypeError: read-only character buffer, list

but maybe it should have been "writelines" instead:

   >>> f.writelines(l)
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   TypeError: writelines() requires sequences of strings
   >>>

what-part-of-'Traceback'-don't-I-understand?-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From dalke at acm.org  Tue Aug  7 08:09:07 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:09:07 +0100
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9kpeft$kbm$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Phil Tomson wrote:
> [...]  But I was also referring to the
>ability to change built-in classes like Array or Hash for example, I can
>add a rotate method to the built-in Array class and everytime I
>instantiate an array after that I can call the rotate method on the
>instance.

I admit to being quite worried about that feature.  If that is
promoted as common practice, what prevents different packages from
making incompatible changes to system functions?  I thought that
was the point of namespaces - to minimize conflicts between different
subsystems.

I see the ability to add methods similar to the ability in Python
to put things into other modules, including the "__builtin__"
module.

>>> def f(s):
...     return len(s) * 2
...
>>> import __builtin__
>>> __builtin__.len2 = f
>>> len2("spam")
8
>>>

This is usually seen as bad practice, and I've only seen it used
well a couple of times (get_transaction in Zope's ZODB .. and I'm
not sure if I fully agree even with that)

I learned a couple weeks ago of a reason to be able to add new
methods dynamically.  I was at a talk where the speaker presented
a development system for non-programmers.  It allowed them to
tweak the class definitions in-place.  She chose Tcl (with an
object extension) over Python because Python's ability to add
new methods is not obvious[*] and because existing instances
are not updated with the new class definitions

[*] Here are two ways - of many - that would be "obvious"
 == 1 (backwards compatible) ==
class Spam:
  def what(self):
    print "spam"

def Spam.slice(self):
    print "sliced"

 == 2 (not backwards compatible, but when I started Python
       I thought this would work) ==

class Spam:
  def what(self):
    print "spam"

class Spam:
  def slice(self):
    print "sliced"

A third approach perhaps more usable for the aformentioned
application would be to have an 'inplace_reload(module)' which
tried its best to update an existing module in place - without
replacing.  For example, by updating the class's Spam.__dict__
and Spam.__bases__.

Hmmm...  Don't know enough even to make a judgement call.

>>change a class's bases...) --
>
>Not sure about this one - do you mean that you can change the class's
>base class?

Python supports multiple inheritence, so change that to "change
the class's base classes" and the answer is "yes"

>>> class Eggs:
...  def what(self): print "I am eggs"
...  def scramble(self): print "scrambled"
...
>>> class Spam:
...  def what(self): print "I am spam"
...  def slice(self): print "sliced"
...
>>> class SpamAndEggs(Spam, Eggs):
...  pass
...
>>> food = SpamAndEggs()
>>> food.what()
I am spam
>>> food.slice()
sliced
>>> food.scramble()
scrambled
>>> food.__class__.__bases__
(<class __main__.Spam at 1071fa0>, <class __main__.Eggs at 10702a0>)
>>> food.__class__.__bases__ = (Eggs, Spam)
>>> food.what()
I am eggs
>>> food.slice()
sliced
>>> food.__class__.__bases__ = (Eggs,)
>>> food.slice()
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: slice
>>>

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From volucris at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 00:51:26 2001
From: volucris at hotmail.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:51:26 -0500
Subject: Text Formating in Python
References: <1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b887f79$0$331$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>

Well, AFAIK there isn't much you can do with the print statement, but if you
are willing to use Tkinter, check out the Text widget. You can do all kinds
of funky stuff with it. http://python.org/topics/tkinter/doc.html

--

Volucris (a) hotmail.com
"Eu n?o falo uma ?nica palavra do portugu?s."

"Lee Hulbert" <lhulbert at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e at posting.google.com...
> Is there a simple way to format a text string before printing to the
> screen?
>
> Specifically, I have a list of 80 numbers, and I want to print the
> list, with each number a different color if it is positive, negative,
> or 0.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Lee




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 24 19:32:07 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:32:07 +0100
Subject: Finalization problems
References: <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <mailman.998680317.19173.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dqhGNIA3Puh7Ewc0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.998680317.19173.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
<tim.one at home.com> writes
>Not enough info.  Does your colleague know how to use gdb?  If not, you're
>in for a lot of blind guessing.  The top-level place to look is
>Py_Finalize() in Python/pythonrun.c.  Cleaning builtins occurs near the end
>of the call to PyImport_Cleanup(), and about a dozen other things happen
>between then and the time ints are cleaned up (I assume you're deriving
>sense of time from -v output, which doesn't normally *print* anything
>between the builtin and int cleanups).
yes he's using -v and no I don't think he's use to gdb. He couldn't see
the core file.
>
>If this app is threaded, I'd suspect that before I'd suspect refcounts.

No threads. Apparently the app has done everything expected and bombs on
exit. We had some similar things on NT when using the wrong socket
library (ie not wsock32.dll). I believe this app worked ok with
Solaris+2.0, but am not absolutely certain.

I will attempt a freeBSD port and see if I can provoke something there.

>Solaris is more reluctant than NT to switch threads, so race bugs are more
>likely to show up under one than the other.  We've had legit race bugs in
>Python that were easy to provoke under Linux but seemingly impossible under
>Windows, and vice versa.  For example, if the extension is mucking with
>threads, and doing so incorrectly near shutdown time (like calling a Python
>C API function when Py_IsInitialized() returns false), it's much more likely
>to blow up under an OS reluctant to switch threads.
>
>

-- 
Robin Becker


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 07:42:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:42:57 +0200
Subject: a break for comprehensions
References: <9jpadd$s5k$1@news.duke.edu> <3B64F09D.1D59837F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <9k44u5$fua$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <9kbec202h4s@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Svensson" <paul at svensson.org> wrote in message
news:9k44u5$fua$1 at newsy.ifm.liu.se...
    ...
> never see list comprehensions a procedural description for how
> to generate the list, but rather a symbolic description of
> the list content.  With that view it shouldn't matter which
> for-clause gets evaluated innermost, and so the only unambigous

Sorry, but it still does: [x-y for x in range(4) for y in range(4)]
is [0, -1, -2, -3, 1, 0, -1, -2, 2, 1, 0, -1, 3, 2, 1, 0], while
[x-y for y in range(4) for x in range(4)] is the different list
[0, 1, 2, 3, -1, 0, 1, 2, -2, -1, 0, 1, -3, -2, -1, 0].  They
might be the same if seen as sets, but, as lists, they aren't.


Alex





From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug 27 14:35:57 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:35:57 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <mailman.998632296.6398.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8A930D.BC2B4C92@home.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> > Apparently, a major effort to optimise for speed is not on the top
> > of the developers list,
> 
> That's true, but it appears to be mixed with a misunderstanding of reality:
> there's no major effort of *any* kind on the developers' list, neither at
> the top nor at the bottom.

Good point, although I think that must of us here are aware of that, but
that doesn't keep the fantasys from flying!!


> 120% of available time is consumed by an endless
> sequence of small but achievable projects; 

That's why I generally try to advocate for such "small but acheivable
projects":

Much as I'd like a fully-optimised, type infering, Python compiler, what
I am hoping we might be able to get (as you'll see elsewhere in this
post) is a way to "sprinkle in a few static type declarations" so that
something Py2C like could build a simple compiled module for you: for
the same kind of things that many of us currently build custom functions
for by hand.

Better yet: I'd love to see Python add homogenous sequences as a
concept. First the concept, which could be used by extension modules to
make type checking a whole lot easier, and perhaps ultimately in the
interpreter to make list comprehensions and the like much faster. First
the infrastructure, then, hopefully, the actual optimisations.

There may be major flaws with my homogenous sequence idea, but I have
been unable to coax thoughtful analysis out of any of the truly
knowledgeable folks in this group so far. Maybe it's such a stupid idea
that no one bothers...

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 17:32:54 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:32:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oqm66.m56.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291731180.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <mailman.999108615.24410.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> > Mmm, no. You see, what if you have values like (5+1j) and (2+58j)? are you
> > sure you want to believe that (5+1j) is larger?
>
> That's the requirement he specified.  I was fixing the code to
> meet the requirement.  [It turns out the actual problem was the
> method name, right?]

Surprisingly enough, he didn't mention any requirements whatsoever.

> If you want to argue about the requirements, that's entirely
> different.

Naw, not today :)

> > It will seem that way if you use the comparison function above.
>
> Yup. That's what he said he wanted.

See above.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Aug  7 07:05:47 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:05:47 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Compiling Python2.2a1 & losing command-line features
In-Reply-To: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108072102050.490-100000@central>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Paul Johnston wrote:

> I have used binary and source-compiled versions of Python.  In every case
> where I use the latter my Python environment loses all its normal niceties
> like backspace, line-repeat, etc.  Is there a setting or configuration item
> I need to set to get these back?

For whatever reason, you aren't getting the readline module when you build
Python.  You need to investigate why the readline build section of
setup.py (in the top level of the Python source tree of 2.1+) is not able
to build the module.  Bonus points for submitting a patch to the Python
patch manager that resolves the problem on your platform.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 23:37:46 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:37:46 +1000
Subject: optional args for getopt()
In-Reply-To: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com>
References: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <0108231337460L.28818@ike>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 12:59, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I can
> set an option string to something like:
>
> 	opts = "hg:b::"
>
> which means that 'g' needs an arg and that 'b' may have an arg. Seems
> the python routine is lacking??

>From the manual page on my Linux system,
"""
       optstring  is  a  string  containing the legitimate option
       characters.  If such a character is followed by  a  colon,
       the  option  requires  an  argument,  so  getopt  places a
       pointer to the following text in the same argv-element, or
       the  text  of  the following argv-element, in optarg.  Two
       colons mean an option takes an optional arg; if  there  is
       text  in  the  current  argv-element,  it  is  returned in
       optarg, otherwise optarg is set to zero.  This  is  a  GNU
       extension. 
"""

Note "This is a GNU extension". I presume the POSIX standard doesn't require 
it (don't have it handy). The python implementation will probably have been 
written by someone working from the POSIX spec (or at least someone who was 
working on a non-GNU-enhanced system :)

By all means, put in a feature/bug request on python.sf.net to have this 
ammended for the next release.


   Richard



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 04:07:27 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:07:27 +0100
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <1a517b5.0108281212.1cb930c2@posting.google.com>
 <4O1PEhAvgKj7EwqO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <cpy9o2nrp1.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <FbhQBUA$Qfj7Ew8P@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <cpy9o2nrp1.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> In Tcl land, these problems caused the powers that be to implement their
>> own indirection scheme. Effectively the extension is passed a pointer to
>> a list of pointers. The extension indirects through them to get at the
>> real api. They have various rules to make things work reasonably when
>> pointers get added/subtracted to the real API. Seems to work quite well,
>> but there's a fixed time and space penalty.
>
>Hm, this looks a lot like the scheme that Windows already implements
>for linking to DLLs, as long as you use the same DLL name.  So what
>would the point be?
>
>The problem with either scheme is that we can't *know* that a new DLL
>won't break an existing extension -- each version introduces *some*
>incompatible change.  Most extensions don't use the affected APIs, so
>would be safe, but there's no way to know.  We could name the DLL
>python2.dll, and hope for the best, but some extensions might dump
>core.  We should then try to minimize this risk by never changing an
>API -- but that's very hard.
>
.....
That's exactly the problem that Tcl now has, extensions do get out of
date and crash for unknown reasons. At present we maintain 3 sets of
win32 dlls.  At some point after 2.2 it will be time to drop 1.5.2, 2.0
& 2.1. It would be better if the dlls could be tagged with the API
number as that changes less frequently or am I mistaken.
-- 
Robin Becker


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 01:03:39 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:03:39 GMT
Subject: Multithreading support for *win32* BaseHTTPServer
References: <mailman.999000342.2993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8c76eb.763101265@news.isar.de>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:03:53 -0400 (EDT), "Scherer, Bill"
<Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote:

>
>Try the following:
> [Source Snipped]

Neither your example nor the ones posted by the other folks seems to
work on Win32 (more specifically: ActivePython 2.1.0.210, Windows 2000
SP2) I get this for your example:

D:\Python21\Lib>testmtserver.py
serving on port 9999
Exception in thread Thread-1:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\threading.py", line 378, in __bootstrap
    self.run()
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\threading.py", line 366, in run
    apply(self.__target, self.__args, self.__kwargs)
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\SocketServer.py", line 246, in finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\SocketServer.py", line 495, in __init__
    self.handle()
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 258, in handle
    self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
    new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'

and a similar error message for the other two examples :( 



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Aug  9 03:57:28 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:57:28 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
In-Reply-To: <12f02d51.0108081318.10091b54@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108091156270.17883-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On 8 Aug 2001, Simon Brunning wrote:
> A preliminary of a Python version quick reference is now available at
> <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR.html>.

   The ZIP file is broken. Please recreate it and let us know.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 26 09:53:41 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:53:41 -0500
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <3b8881df.477281404@wa.news.verio.net>
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org>
        <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com>
        <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>
        <mailman.998777619.14219.python-list@python.org>
        <3b8881df.477281404@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <15240.65381.761064.862921@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> It's when you treat a TAB character as something other than 8 spaces
    >> that mixing spaces and TABs becomes a problem.

    Bengt> You don't literally mean that '\t' becomes ' '*8 ??

No, I meant a TAB in the first column or Emacs's tab-width setting of 8.  I
erred in exposition, not intent. ;-) I've never encountered a situation in
my code at least where a line would begin with spaces then a TAB.  Since I
use python-mode to edit my code, indent-tabs-mode is always nil in my code
anyway (four-space py-indent-offset != tab-width).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 28 01:24:29 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 22:24:29 -0700
Subject: Semaphores?
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org> <7xwv3og71o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9mf6u5$r74$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xofp0sqnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
> >Anyone got a favorite way to implement shared memory semaphores in
> >Python?  The obvious way is with an atomic test-and-set operation in
> >the mmap module, but none seems to be listed in the docs.  Is there a
> >preferred way to do it?  If not, should I submit a PEP to add
> >something to mmap?
> 
> Do you have a cross-platform solution?

There's no totally portable way to do it (it's not part of C
semantics) but there should be reasonable implementations possible on
all modern platforms.


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Aug 10 10:38:37 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:38:37 -0500
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <Xns90F3127C4569Crcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B6B3F19.BDB95417@Lugoj.Com> <3B73EB2F.69D3F6B0@sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <246DC01562F860BE.46ED156B8A111A29.7639D9149F757306@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3B73EB2F.69D3F6B0 at sage.att.com>,
Garry Hodgson  <garry at sage.att.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>"Pair A Dice Lost" is an album by Hot Tuna.
>has a kickass version of "Eve Of Destruction".
			.
			.
			.
... named after the woman who stood up to Bob Dylan,
inspiring *him* to write "Bring Out Your Dead".
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 10:23:15 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:23:15 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
In-Reply-To: <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131813220.780-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:
> 
> > Can you point me (and other readers just coming to this discussion) to a
> > few URLs illuminating the key differences between 'new-style' and
> > 'old-style' classes?  I'm going to do some reading up on the various PEPs,
> > but if there are any posts on python-dev I can refer to...
> 
> The PEPs, the source code, and the unification tutorial at
> 
>     http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

I even think that maybe day comes when Python will not need SWIG to use C
(and maybe C++) libraries directly and efficiently.

> > Aye, now there's the rub.  If we have uniform introspection, there's a
> > certain expectation that features like this become _easier_ to use, not
> > harder.  Introspection is a powerful feature, all the more powerful if
> > it's uniform and systematic.
> 
> To me, introspection means being able to look at yourself, not
> necessarily being able to modify yourself.  The new scheme definitely
> makes discovery of features of objects easier -- you can *always* just
> look at __class__.__dict__ etc.

> Actually, speeding up Python is a very common request.  You probably
> ignored those threads because *you* don't need it.  That is, until
> more people use your code. :-)

But will PEP25{2,3,4} really make Python faster?


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 31 19:04:28 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:04:28 -0700
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
References: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no> <9mnse0$knh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <9mp27s$mob$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3B9017FC.F2758CCC@ccvcorp.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> class KeywordTrap:
>   def __init__(self):
>      self.allwords = {}
>   def __getitem__(self, keyword):
>      self.allwords[keyword] = 1
>      return self
>   def __int__(self): return 0
>   def __str__(self): return ""
>   def __float__(self): return 0.0
>   def __oct__(self): return "0"
>   def __hex__(self): return "0"
>   def __long__(self): return 1L

Well, I *did* test this... I threw the above class into a module with:

def test():
    trap = KeywordTrap()
    "Testing ... %d %s %f %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap
    print trap.allwords.keys()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()

When I ran it, I got:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\python20\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line 301,
in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\Python20\Projects\TestScript1.py", line 24, in ?
    test()
  File "C:\Python20\Projects\TestScript1.py", line 19, in test
    "Testing ... %d %s %f %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>>

So I tried getting rid of the %d %s etc, and just using the keyword
formats...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\python20\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line 301,
in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\Python20\Projects\TestScript1.py", line 23, in ?
    test()
  File "C:\Python20\Projects\TestScript1.py", line 18, in test
    "Testing ...  %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap
ValueError: incomplete format
>>>

Bummer.  Maybe we'd have to inherit from UserDict?  I haven't messed
around with that at all...

(btw, this is on Python 2.0 under Win95)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 13:59:03 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:59:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEDPLJAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311357060.4373-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]
> > Well, I've released this needlessly brittle code, so now you can
> > critique it in it's entirety:
>
> Nope.  I was never criticizing your code, I was ridiculing your fear of
> gotos for your own good <wink>.

No, no. I didn't mean criticize, I meant critique. Also if you could take a
quick look over it that would be MUCH appreciated.

> > ...
> > Ugh. Returning from within the do as soon as the error occurs
> > would probably be better anyways.
>
> In which case the code becomes brittle, because you have to remember to
> decref the partial result (if any), and every temp, before returning.  It's
> not especially hard to get that right when you first write the code, but
> under modification the number of error returns increases, and the set of
> temps changes, and exactly when each temp first becomes non-NULL shifts, and
> then you've got an ever-growing number of code regions that need to be
> patched by hand.  The goto version remains dead simple.
>
> come-back-after-you've-maintained-extensions-for-years<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim

Fair enough. I've only been writing C extensions for a couple of weeks so I
have no PoR, but I'll believe you on that one.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 07:06:40 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:06:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in
news:7xofphd4ql.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com: 

> xrange apparently doesn't malloc the values until they're used, but
> they eventually get malloc'd.  I think functional programming has run
> slightly amuck here.  What's wanted is something equivalent to
> 
>    sum = 0
>    i = 1
>    while i <= 100 :
>       sum = sum + i
>       i = i + 1
Well, you can write that if that is what you want. I think you are 
confusing Python's for loop with the for loop in languages like C. In 
Python, 'for' is for iterating over the elements of a sequence. This is 
actually a very common operation, almost certainly more so than adding up 
the numbers in a range.
Also, you say that xrange still eventually creates all of the numbers in 
the range, but so does your while loop. Any loop eventually has to create 
or access every index value that it uses. For a list of 100 numbers, it is 
generally much faster for Python to create the list than it is for it to 
create each of the numbers by adding 1 to the preceding value.

> Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
> keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.
My opinion is that the for loop in Python is one of the things that makes 
it great.

> Here's another one: the print statement puts a gratuituous space after
> each thing you print.  So
> 
>    for i in ['a','b','c']:
>      print i,
> 
> prints "a b c " instead of "abc".
Actually it prints "a b c", there isn't a space after the last value. The 
space is inserted in front of each value, except at the start of a line.

Most of the time this is what you (or at least I) want. If you want "abc" 
then try one of the following:

import sys
for i in ['a', 'b', 'c']:
   sys.stdout.write(i)

Or build the line up before printing it:
line = ""
for i in ['a', 'b', 'c']:
   line += i
print line

Or:
>>> def nospace(value):
...    "suppress space before this value"
...    sys.stdout.softspace = 0
...    return value
...
>>> for i in ['a', 'b', 'c']:
...    print nospace(i),
...
abc
>>>


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From rob at jam.rr.com  Thu Aug 23 02:18:42 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:18:42 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com> <8R%g7.29820$1p1.2181194@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <3B849FFB.C9D7EF31@jam.rr.com>

George Garnett wrote:
> 
> Well, I 'did' ask for it (the criticisms), didn't I?
> 
> Anyway, the issue is what is the future of jpython, and what is its future
> relative to JSP (and also relative to javascript, which is also developing
> into its own full language)? Also, what role should each language play in a
> design, if they are used together. I suggest looking on-line for computer
> magazine articles rather than relying on user's opinions (including myself).
> Try to find sources that aren't focused solely on java (such as 'java
> world') or python (such as 'python world'?).

Hmmmmmm..... Now, there's a thought.

 No doubt jpython will fill a
> specific market niche just like java. However, I've seen many companies go
> belly up and I wonder about jpython. How can they compete with an upcoming
> powerhouse like JSP in the long term?

Jython's a nice piece of work, I think. Jython is 100% Pure Java,
anyway, so it would make little sense for Jython to oppose Java. Have
you downloaded the Jython install? It's a self-extracting .class file.
Jython source compiles to Java bytecodes and provides access to existing
Java libraries. And it adds Python's sweet syntax and familiar
interactive coding environment.

And when it comes to language choice as a career decision, I think it is
a good idea to write code enjoyably. Learn several languages, write lots
and lots and lots of code, and develop a personal idea of when different
approaches are appropriate. Device driver? Try something along the lines
of C. It's lunchtime, and you just remembered you were supposed to turn
in some serious socket programming by early afternoon? Definitely
Python, with Java as a perhaps-not-impossible fall-back plan. Beyond a
certain point, it's pretty subjective.

Since the original poster is coming from an intermediate VB background,
Python isn't a bad investment of time. You can convert some of your VB
scripts into Python equivalents. Python's rapid learning curve can
enable a serious student to move into *serious programming* quickly, and
the lessons learned extend into other languages.

> 
> "atonal" <watchtheclosingdoors at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:48256545.0108221258.5882c94f at posting.google.com...
> > i have beginning-to-intermediate level vb6/vba programming skills and
> > would like to find employment before long in a technical capacity.
> >
> > something tells me that vb is not my ticket, and i am intrigued by
> > python.
> >
> > for now i am somewhat wedded to ms windows and ms office, but i gather
> > that python can be used in many ways in place of vba, and that in
> > general it would offer more career opportunities.
> >
> > anyone agree or disagree?  advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From colinsyu at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 21:49:56 2001
From: colinsyu at hotmail.com (C. Yu)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:49:56 -0700
Subject: Python Unicode problem
Message-ID: <55201ee1.0108231749.6dd5ac2c@posting.google.com>

I was wondering if anyone could help me in figuring out how to take a
unicode string like u"?&#402;??&#402;??&#8218;??&#402;?
?&#402;&#8212;?&#402;??&#402;??&#8218;?" (Japanese) and converting
each of the characters into \uXXXX escape code format in python 2.0?
Thus the python code would look something like u"\u0411\u0412..." and
so forth.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 10:31:36 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:31:36 +0200
Subject: emulating sequences
References: <1r4rqo726z.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <9mo74805du@enews2.newsguy.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:1r4rqo726z.fsf at video.bsd.uchicago.edu...
>
> I have a user defined type that I would like to behave like a
> sequence, eg
>
> results = MyType()
> for result in results:
>         blah
>
> Talking about special methods, Beazley in 'Essential Python' says that
> the following methods are used by objects that want to emulate
> sequence and mapping objects:
>
> __len__, __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__, __getslice__,
> __setslice__, __delslice__

That's rather dated: you shouldn't use the slice methods, but
rather let your item methods accept a slice-object as an
alternative to an integer -- it's more flexible.


> If I implement each of these for MyType, then can I get the desired
> behavior?

Definitely.

> If so, is there a subset that is sufficient just to get the
> 'in' behavior?

Yes, all you need for "for x in whatever:" is that whatever
implements __getitem__.  The for statement will call
whatever.__getitem__ with an argument of 0, then 1, then
2, and so on, until __getitem__ raises IndexError.


> Finally, if you have a sequence, what is the best way to get an index
> of the first match of a value in a find command, similar to the C++
>
>    i = find(s.begin(), s.end(), val)
>
> Is there such a function, and if so, what is the illegal value
> indicating failure to find?

You should emulate lists and strings, which implement an index
method -- to quote the online manual, "mutable sequences should
provide methods append(), count(), index(), insert(), pop(),
remove(), reverse() and sort(), like Python standard list objects".
On "failure to find", the method should raise ValueError.

If you have a sequence and *don't know* whether it implements
index or (like, say, a tuple) doesn't, you could use, e.g:

import sys
def findin(sequence, item):
    try: return sequence.find(item)
    except AttributeError:
        for anitem, anindex in zip(sequence, xrange(sys.maxint)):
            if anitem==item: return anindex
        else: raise ValueError

This carefully avoids using len(sequence), just in case the
sequence doesn't define a __len__ but rather signals its
termination only with a raise of IndexError.  If you don't
care about this peculiar case, then a simpler approach is:

def findin(sequence, item):
    try: return sequence.find(item)
    except AttributeError:
        for i in range(len(sequence)):
            if sequence[i]==item: return i
        else: raise ValueError


Alex





From woodm at equire.com  Wed Aug 22 17:41:42 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:42 -0600
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3B842716.2090205@equire.com>

You could always look up the __dict__ for both the class and the 
instance.  I believe that such a search would always find the method if 
it existed.

Joseph Andrew Knapka wrote:

> I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
> be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
> I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
> work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
> a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
> dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
> already a standard function to do it. Sadly, perusal of the
> tutorial, library reference, language reference (briefly),
> and FAQ has thus far been unenlightening. Pointers
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 




From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug  8 14:27:42 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:27:42 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.997291213.16968.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
 <mailman.997291213.16968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081323420.1251-100000@cc489744-a>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, William Park wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:53:16PM +0000, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> > Hi pythoners,
> > 	You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> > mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was modal.
> > Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get syntax
> > highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What more
> > could you want?  (Note:  I love Vim, please don't attack me for slightly
> > insulting Emacs, I do know that Emacs has a HUGE amount of useful
> > features)
>
> Looks like flame bait, but I've got 10 minutes to kill...

Yar, you are right.  I souldn't have even sent that, see some of my
other messages for more, off-topic I guess, information.

> People choose editor first, then work their way to programming language.
> So, python support in Vim/Emacs wouldn't influence them.  Personally,
> auto-indenting is the only thing I use regularly.  Everything else gives
> me headache.

He he, yes, that other stuff is going just a tad overboard :-)   But I
thought the Python site could notify that more than Emacs has Python
support (it does this already, but only for two editors, and Jed is a
lot like Emacs, IMHO).  Sorry.


-- 
     Man on cross [singing]: ``Always look on the bright side of
     life...''
     [whistling]...
               -- Monty Python::The life of Brian

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 12:58:54 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:58:54 -0500
Subject: Progress on missing features?
In-Reply-To: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de>
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <15225.22734.765176.168663@beluga.mojam.com>

    Dinu> given the recent burst of new features in Python I do wonder what
    Dinu> happend to those that are missing from Python for a long while
    Dinu> now? I'm listing here only these:

    Dinu>   - interfaces
    Dinu>   - class methods
    Dinu>   - type indicators (opt.)

Class methods yes, interfaces no (so far).  Not sure what you mean by "type
indicators".

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 17:39:08 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:39:08 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <9kg79r029r9@enews4.newsguy.com> <1n9omt89amtbf9i07bvdasreuk5qs56v48@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kkefp017c8@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1n9omt89amtbf9i07bvdasreuk5qs56v48 at 4ax.com...
>
> >> Various different rules which have crept up over the years such as
> >> "don't use global variables," and "practice strong encapsulation,"
> >> and so forth are all only distractions and are useless to the degree
> >> that in any particular context they don't satisfy Sir Occam's
relentless
> >> blade.
> >
> >Except that they often promote ease of testing, modification and
> >refactoring.  That is what gives them value.
    ...
> Note that I'm not arguing against interface and implementation separation;
> I am simplying pointing out that the rule "always have getters and
setters"
> isn't necessarily correct all of the time.

Indeed, I've become convinced that, in Python, it's a bad rule.  I think
the Pythonic idiom is to expose 'properties' (client-visible attributes) for
client use with Python syntax (obj.theattr for reading, maybe also
obj.theattr=newvalue if it's appropriate for the property to be writable),
and, if accessor functions are needed, provide them behind the syntax
screen (with __getattr__/__setattr__ in 2.1 and before, with dedicated
per-attribute getters/setters in 2.2 and after).  Object Pascal (at the
heart
of Delphi) has always worked like this (as, for read-access only, has
Eiffel;
now Eiffel has added a mechanism for write-access), and it's nice.  In
Python it also gains you a bit of performance if the common case is for
accessors to be NOT needed:-).  I think the fact the mechanism's due
for introduction in 2.2 shows I'm not the only one to feel this way:-).

So, the _specific_ rule 'always have getters and setters' is too broadly
put -- unless you amend it to 'always ensure you can seamlessly have
your code called when a property is accesses, even if you expose that
property "bare" right now'.  In some languages, such as C++ and Java,
this means the property must live behind a screen of accessor methods
(getters/setters) -- in others, such as Object Pascal, Eiffel and Python,
there is no such implication.

> IMO, this is particularly true in
> situations where you have a package of objects which are mutually
> manipulatory, but don't otherwise expose a public API.

Yes, "the [proper] unit of encapsulation is the package", not the
class (R. Martin formulated this rule for C++, but AFAIK all C++
authors share it -- it's definitely in Meyers, Lakos, Stroustrup, albeit
not always as clearly and sharply expressed -- and the rule extends
to other languages, particularly ones where "package" is a formal
concept [while in C++ you have to "synthesize" it]).

But, again, this doesn't address the general issue: that simplicity
of design and code is great, but, when it conflicts with testability
and refactoring (or reusability and reuse, too), there's a legitimate
engineering trade-off.  The (proper) rules, such as those expressed
by R. Martin, apply to a wide range of such trade-off situations, and
may well trump "surface" simplicity where other factors dominate.


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 16:20:28 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 00:20:28 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <oqsnf65omz.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108060010350.7860-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 5 Aug 2001, [iso-8859-1] Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

>[Roman Suzi]
>
>> To be good for AI, language must have logic programming support.
>
>Hello, Roman.
>
>"logic programming"?  Do you merely mean using some logical inference
>engine, or more than that?  Or would a regexp matcher fit the bill?

yes! I just forgot how to call it in English: inference engine.

>> (I wonder if Guido thinks in this direction 'cause this requires adding
>> new keywords ;-)
>
>You say "requires"?  I'm curious about why new keywords would be needed.
>Python would not be expressive enough as it stands?

It was a joke. But maybe new keyword like "solve" could be useful
for things like:

solve y = f(x)

>> the solver engine comparable to Prolog is to be written.
>
>Nobody did this yet?  I thought a lot of little logical inference engines
>existed here and there, I did not paid much attention to these, recently.

Maybe undegrad homeworks?

>Traditionally, LISP is considered good for AI, without having built-in
>goal seekers.  I would not fear using Python for AI projects...

Well, Prolog is easier to formulate problems, IMHO...

>I worked in AI fields for some while, before doing Operation Research, later.
>I was rather surprised to find out that AI and OR were sometimes addressing
>similar problems deep down, yet formulated quite differently.  The OR
>side was much more humble, and often reached better and faster results.
>With a broad enough perspective, FORTRAN is a good AI language! :-)

Most languages are equivalent to Turing machine. Readability matters. One
must like LISP very much to get results from it. While Prolog could be
taught at secondary school! (In our country we have it in some school
informatics courses!)

>P.S. - The second Prolog interpreter was written in FORTRAN.  Maybe the
>first was written in Algol-60.  Or, maybe, am I thinking about Syst?mes-Q?
>This is all old.  In any case, both were designed by the same guy: and if
>the later Prolog was much speedier than Syst?mes-Q, it lacked their elegance.

We are lucky to live in time Python is not written in Fortran :-|

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Aug 24 09:42:45 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:42:45 -0400
Subject: LaTeX class howto.cls?
In-Reply-To: <c5lbot0ui71f3p720kersloi23cba546ml@4ax.com>; from timr@probo.com on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 09:16:41PM -0700
References: <c5lbot0ui71f3p720kersloi23cba546ml@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010824094245.B455@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 09:16:41PM -0700, Tim Roberts wrote:
> I recently fetched the mimelib Python module.  I went to print out the
> documentation, and decided the LaTeX version would be the most convenient
> way.  However, the doc uses the "howto.cls" LaTeX class.  I cannot find
> this class.  Doing a web search proved difficult, because both "howto" and
> "cls" are very common words.
> 
> Can anybody offer me a pointer?

It is located under Doc/texinputs/ in the source tree.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Thu Aug  9 15:01:03 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:01:03 GMT
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3b72dde3.424003865@news.laplaza.org>

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:54:40 +0100, Mark Robinson
<m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote:

:Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and deleting 
:elements that don't meet a certain criteria.
:
Perfect use for the filter() function.



From tjreedy at home.com  Sat Aug 18 11:56:33 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:56:33 GMT
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Rewf7.115123$EP6.30498103@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

 "Henrik Ekelund" <henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com> wrote in message
 news:f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85 at posting.google.com...
 > We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python
to
 > C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion
of a
 > working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
 > work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
 > lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?

You did not specify either a definition of 'convert' or the purpose
thereof.

If the only purpose is to provide a 'pure' C++ program, then a frozen
version of the Python program, which treats PyCode as text strings,
qualifies.  Feed it to a C++ compiler and the output will be a unitary
executable for the particular platform.  This is similar to a database
program that interprets SQL similarly embedded in text strings.

For some speedup, one could convert Python code into the equivalent
API calls. Again, anything a C++ compiler can compile into a working
executable is legal C++ code.   Python's builtin types comprise as
legitimate a library as anything else.  Why replace Guido's rendition
of extensible arrays, dictionaries, reference counting, etc, with
someone else's?  The main exception would be to unbox numbers and
arithmethic thereon where it is certain that Python's polymorphism is
not being used.

If the requirement to to use only a subset of C++ (classes but no
structs, no 'extern C', etc), then more needs to be done (and paid
for).

Terry J. Reedy




From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug 28 19:17:32 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:17:32 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <gv4oot0rbcdbc2e3kj16sehubns0utngv6@4ax.com> <mailman.999039163.17806.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v69oot0f2t1pd9iijdk23jq0kniujmcuuk@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:51:40 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.999039163.17806.python-list at python.org>:

:>From the fcntl(2) man page:
:
:"
:       F_SETLK
:              The lock is set (when l_type is F_RDLCK or F_WRLCK)
:              or cleared (when it is F_UNLCK).  If  the  lock  is
:              held by someone else, this call returns -1 and sets
:              errno to EACCES or EAGAIN.
:"
:
:>From <bits/fcntl.h>:
:---
:#define F_RDLCK         0       /* Read lock.  */
:#define F_WRLCK         1       /* Write lock.  */
:#define F_UNLCK         2       /* Remove lock.  */
:---
:
:Those are the values you want to use. It looks like Python may have this one
:wrong.

Well, this sounded good to me. So, I tried this:

''' posixLock.py

class lockfile
supports the same function calls as
winLock.lockfile
export to LockFile.py: a wrapper module
around the win and posix lockfiles
'''

import os, fcntl

class lockfile:
    def __init__(self, filename):
        if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
            self.filename = filename
        else:
            errmssg = filename + " does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def getReadLock(self):
        self.f = open(self.filename)
        self.fd = self.f.fileno()
        fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_RDLCK)

    def getWriteLock(self):
        self.f = open(self.filename)
        self.fd = self.f.fileno()
        fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_WRLCK)

    def unlock(self):
        fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_UNLCK)
        self.f.close()
        del self.fd

    def flock(self, flag):
        '''flags are:
        LOCK_UN - unlock
        LOCK_SH - acquire a shared (or read) lock
        LOCK_EX - acquire an exclusive (or write) lock
        '''
        if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
            self.getReadLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
            self.getWriteLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
            self.unlock()
        else:
            errmssg = "The flag " + flag + " is not implemented for flock"
            raise NotImplementedError, errmssg


But, in an interactive session, I got:

Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from LockFile import LockFile
>>> obj = LockFile('lock.txt')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_SH')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "posixLock.py", line 42, in flock
    self.getReadLock()
  File "posixLock.py", line 23, in getReadLock
    fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_RDLCK)
AttributeError: 'fcntl' module has no attribute 'F_RDLCK'
>>>

I suppose I could just use the integer value equivalents, or possibly import the
constants from FCNTL. However, I'm not certain that the integer value equivalents
will be the same across all platforms. 

Hmm. What to do, what to do...?

Well, I tried adding this to the top of my posixLock.py file:

from FCNTL import F_RDLCK, F_WRLCK, F_UNLCK

But then, I just got this error:

Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from LockFile import LockFile
>>> obj = LockFile('lock.txt')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_SH')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "posixLock.py", line 43, in flock
    self.getReadLock()
  File "posixLock.py", line 24, in getReadLock
    fcntl.lockf(self.fd, F_RDLCK)
ValueError: unrecognized flock argument
>>>

Maybe I just need to address the fcntl command, itself (i.e. fcntl.fcntl), however,
I feel that I'm going beyond where I feel comfortable (I'm not really good with
Linux/Unix stuff...)

Additional advice is welcome...

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From writeson at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 27 14:20:37 2001
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 11:20:37 -0700
Subject: Python-2.1.1 and wxPython problem loading zlib
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0108271020.67d99ce7@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've FINALLY got a Python-2.1.1 and wxPython running on my Solaris 2.6
Sparc machine. This took me a long time, but I won't go into that!
Anyway, I know wxPython is running cause I can run some of the demo
programs. However, when I try to run the main demo.py program I get
the following messages:

# python demo.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "demo.py", line 3, in ?
    import Main
  File "Main.py", line 19, in ?
    import images
  File "images.py", line 5, in ?
    import cPickle, zlib
ImportError: No module named zlib

I just used pkg-get install zlib    to install zlib from
www.sunfreeware.com, but that didn't solve the problem. Can someone
tell me what I need to do to get the zlib module to load? Actually,
any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Doug
Scholastic, Inc.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 17:59:03 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:59:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
In-Reply-To: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221741590.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Joseph Andrew Knapka wrote:

> I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
> be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
> I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
> work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
> a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
> dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
> already a standard function to do it. Sadly, perusal of the
> tutorial, library reference, language reference (briefly),
> and FAQ has thus far been unenlightening. Pointers
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,

Try this:

eval("%s.%s" % (filter(lambda (x,y): y==obj and x!='obj',
  locals().items()+globals().items())[0][0], func))

where obj is the class object and func is the method name string.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 08:56:14 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:56:14 +0100
Subject: ReportLab 1.09 Released
Message-ID: <5orvtCBu58d7EwYP@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

ReportLab 1.09 has been released.
The latest version of ReportLab's PDF scripting toolkit has been
released.

This release includes bug fixes, many new graphics features (shaded
bars, gridded plots), improved documentation.

Many of the global kit options are now settable from environment
variables.

New tools allow colorized PDF for Python code. 

Type1 font embedding is supported.

See 

http://www.reportlab.com/download.html
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=682
-- 
Robin Becker


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Aug  1 18:35:40 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:35:40 -0500
Subject: urllib help
Message-ID: <3B68843C.997C4930@wi.mit.edu>

I'm struggling with a relatively simply problem.  I'm trying to fill out
the parameters in a form using urllib.  I appear to be able to set the
parameters correctly, but I can't figure out how to submit the form.
That is, I can change the form values to whatever I want but can't
simulate clicking on the go button.

Below the {"term":"wortmannin"} fills in the appropriate section of the
form, i.e. the search term.  How do I actually post the form to the cgi
script?  The following code simply returns the same page as I started
with except that the search entry now says wortmannin instead of being
blank.

Thanks in advance.

import urllib

url =
"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed"
res = urllib.urlopen(url, urllib.urlencode({"term":"wortmannin"}))

# this just updates the form, it doesn't submit it :(
print res.read()

Brian Kelley
bkelley at wi.mit.edu
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 11:03:12 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:03:12 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <GIIvun.6EC@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <3B851B30.296EFB6F@engcorp.com>

Will Ware wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen (peter at engcorp.com) wrote:
> > An answer from a different point of view is "why bother?"
> > Python is already "fast enough" for many applications -- one
> > might even say "for most applications for which it is
> > used", and there is little interest in improving its
> > speed compared to improvements in other areas.
> 
> This might be phrased a little differently. Python programmers are
> not entirely unconcerned with speed. 

You're right, but we're saying the same thing.  I didn't say
Pythonistas don't want improved speed, just that *relative*
to other improvements, there is clearly little interest
(*relatively* little) in speed improvements.  This is really
just an observation over many postings in this newsgroup.

> Most cases where you want big performance improvements are situations
> where a particular small set of operations is taking up most of the
> time. If those operations are coded as a C extension, then you don't
> need to rewrite the other stuff that is already debugged and working,
> and you get all the benefits of staying in the Python environment.

Exactly *why* there is relatively little interest in improving
the speed of raw Python.  We all realize a more effective way
to gain speed improvements is to profile and then recode as
a C extension if (and only if) absolutely necessary.

We like speed as much as the next group of programmers.  Just not,
it seems, over many other factors we consider more important.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Sat Aug  4 19:13:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:13 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Long: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <memo.20010805001355.60291K@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <3B667EBA.DA6C298 at tundraware.com>, tundra at tundraware.com (Tim 
Daneliuk) wrote:

> 
>               *** Python Is Really "Middleware" ***
>                          Tim Daneliuk
>               Copyright (c) 2001, TundraWare Inc.

<article snipped>

[Applause]

A very clear, well thought out and important article (which is to say, it 
says what I already believed :-)


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 13:48:24 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:48:24 +0200
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
References: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com> <20010804.134859.653468858.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <20010804.135022.2086206725.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <1478423.McOhtQpZWr@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Mark Nenadov <mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca> schrub:


> One more thing, in my limited experience, I have found it easier to
> find helpful documentation on wxPython.

Could you give us some pointers?

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From ron.l.johnson at home.com  Mon Aug  6 16:16:12 2001
From: ron.l.johnson at home.com (Ron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:16:12 GMT
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <9klqpi$v86@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <gWCb7.58757$oh1.22303973@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

Hi, Richard.

Thanks you.

How efficient is Python on VMS?  Also, how useful is it as a
"super-DCL"?  Or does the lack of F$GETSYI, F$GETDVI, etc limit
it's usefulness?

Sincerely,
Ron

Richard Brodie wrote:
> 
> "Ron Johnson" <ron.l.johnson at home.com> wrote in message
> news:lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> 
>> Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the
>> duplicate spaces out
> 
> You can use regular expressions (in the re module).  They can soon get
> complex but they don't start a lot easier than this.
> 
> $ python
> Python 1.5.2 (V007, Mon Jun  4 20:11:16 2001) [DECC] on OpenVMS Alpha
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> portions Copyright 1996-2000 Uwe Zessin
>>>> import re
>>>> whitespace = re.compile('\s+')
>>>> re.sub(whitespace, ' ', 'foo   bar      snafu')
> 'foo bar snafu'
> 
>> For anyone with VMS experience, I want to emulate the DCL lexical
>> function F$EDIT("COMPRESS").
> 
> Strictly , you would need an expression [ \t]+ :
> "match characters from the set (space or tab) one or more times".



From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug  5 17:59:53 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:59:53 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEKMLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Stephen Horne]
> ...
> Actually compile all the main issues into a single post so that
> people would actually have to think to counter it, and all they do
> is ignore it.

I didn't ignore it, but I didn't reply either -- you were carpet-bombing
c.l.py at the time, and were getting plenty of responses.  You may wish to
ponder why the anti-PEP contingent also "ignored" it:  there were no
responses period, not even a "me too!".

I just looked it over again, and, frankly, it doesn't make much sense.
Starting at the top:

[Stephen Horne
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:27 AM
 Subject: Re: Steve Summary of views on the Is-It-Actually-Better?
]
> ...
>
> I believe PEP0238 is wrong in principle because...
>
> 1.  The fact that mathematicians have had many views on integers
>     and division,

Factually incorrect; mathematicians have no disagreement over the meaning of
int/int (it's a rational).

>     and the one that is in most non-specialist mindsets

Hard to know what this means, but the idea that the majority of
non-specialists see "2/3" and think "0" is absurd on the face of it, if
that's what it means.

>     doesn't meet the pragmatic requirements for several fields of
>     mathematics, is understood. That doesn't make the other
>     definitions from less demanding, more down-to-earth fields
>     invalid.

PEP 238 retains an operator for flooring division (assuming that's what you
mean).

> 2.  It particularly does not invalidate the practical view which most
>     people can easily understand, which is taught to everyone at
>     a very early age and which also happens to work extremely well
>     for typical programming tasks (not just specialist applications).

PEP 238 doesn't dispute the utility of flooring division (assuming etc).

>     Doesn't the pro-pep views insistence on the most pragmatic
>     possible definition of discrete integer division seem more than a
>     little inconsistent with their sloppy attitude to the much more
>     fundamental difference between discrete and continuous
>     mathematics?
>
>     Just because it isn't the unnecessarily pragmatic (for normal
>     programming tasks) field of mathematics that a few people
>     subscribe to, it doesn't make it wrong. It is simply from a less
>     specialised, more basic and more generally useful field that
>     doesn't address the  specialist problems of the minority over the
>     general day-to-day practicality of the majority.

If that were English, it would be easier to make a response <wink>.

> 3.  Practically all programs use discrete integer quantities -
>     indices, subscripts, counters, sizes and more - whereas numerics
>     is a particular specialist field.

You've got some private definitions for these terms I was never able to
grok.

>     Making life more awkward for the majority just to suit a few
>     specialist fields is not rational. It's the specialists dealing
>     with specialist fields who should have to deal with awkward
>     special case syntax and semantics - not the everyday user.

The idea that a majority of non-specialists believe 2/3 means 0 has not been
established, and IMO is almost certainly false.

> 4.  Discrete measures and continuous measures are not the same thing
>     and should not be arbitrarily confused.

PEP 238 suggests two distinct operators in order to reduce confusion(!).

>     Discrete integer division makes perfect sense despite the fact
>     that specialist fields have outlawed it for specialist reasons
>     relating to specialist problems.

Nobody has "outlawed" any meaning for division, "specialist" or otherwise.

>     This is much more fundamental than just switching between
>     different representations of continuous measures.

"This" doesn't appear to have a sensible referent.

>     The pro-pep groups arbitrarily application of continuous measure
>     division principles with a discrete integer type is wrong in
>     mathematics,

Factually incorrect.

>     and it is wrong in engineering,

Whether it's velocity = distance/time, or voltage = watts/amps, engineers
rarely have "discrete" division in mind.  So "wrong" is wrong here too.

>     and it is wrong in programming.

The meaning of division a program needs depends entirely on context.  Any
meaning is "wrong" in some programming contexts.

>     My use of more practical day-to-day discrete principles for
>     discrete integer arithmetic than would be appropriate in field
>     theory - or even 16-year-old pure mathematics, I fully agree
>     - is not the same thing at all.

Couldn't parse that one.

> 5.  Having established that division on the discrete integer type
>     should work in the only practical way that makes sense

LOL!  I hope that was *meant* to be tongue-in-cheek.

> ... [much more snipped] ...

This is too time-consuming, Steve, and I think it's clear why you didn't get
support for the kinds of arguments above even from the anti-PEP camp.

Code breakage was and remains a strong anti-PEP argument.  You once thought
it was supremely important to "do what other scripting languages do", but
since the JavaScript and VB examples backfired you don't mention that claim
anymore.  I thought that was a marginal but plausible argument, and still
do.  No other anti-PEP argument survived my personal credibility cutoff.

if-you-still-feel-ignored-it's-not-because-you're-ignored<wink>-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 04:14:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:14:33 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com> <j207nt8cb1snjb7hib3k0c9d9ij1jn6vrq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9l054k01pe9@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:j207nt8cb1snjb7hib3k0c9d9ij1jn6vrq at 4ax.com...
    ...
> and C so easily comingle: they were meant to. Python extension
> writing is very easy, with the caveat that the moment you go from
> creating an extension module to wanting to be able to generate
> _constructable_ object instances of your native objects, you must
> go to the trouble of learning the subtleties of the reference counting
> system. Once you're past that, however, and all is cake.

The "subtleties of reference counting" aren't all that subtle,
even though it's probably worth using the Boost Python
Library to be able to forget them.  Consider, for example,
the C-extension version of my tiny elementary-list Python
module, i.e.:

def cons(a,b): return [a,b]
def car(alist): return alist[0]
def cdr(alist): return alist[1]
def setcar(alist, a): alis[0]=a
def setcdr(alist, b): alis[1]=b

All you need to transliterate this into C is the following
setup.py distutils-script:

from distutils.core import setup, Extension

setup (name = "elemlist",
       version = "1.0",
       maintainer = "Alex Martelli",
       maintainer_email = "aleax at aleax.it",
       description = "Sample Python module",

       ext_modules = [Extension('elemlist',sources=['elemlist.c'])]
)

and the elemlist.c code, of course (shorn of comments & docs):

#include "Python.h"
typedef struct {
    PyObject_HEAD
    PyObject *car, *cdr;
} cons_cell;
staticforward PyTypeObject cons_type;
#define carof(v) (((cons_cell*)(v))->car)
#define cdrof(v) (((cons_cell*)(v))->cdr)

static cons_cell*
cons_new(PyObject *car, PyObject *cdr)
{
    cons_cell *cons = PyObject_NEW(cons_cell, &cons_type);
    if(!cons) return 0;
    cons->car = car; Py_INCREF(car);
    cons->cdr = cdr; Py_INCREF(cdr);
    return cons;
}
static void
cons_dealloc(cons_cell* cons)
{
    Py_DECREF(carof(cons)); Py_DECREF(cdrof(cons));
    PyObject_DEL(cons);
}
static PyMethodDef no_methods[] = { {0, 0} };

statichere PyTypeObject cons_type = {
    PyObject_HEAD_INIT(0)
    0,                 /*ob_size*/
    "cons",            /*tp_name*/
    sizeof(cons_cell), /*tp_basicsize*/
    0,                 /*tp_itemsize*/
    /* methods */
    (destructor)cons_dealloc, /*tp_dealloc*/
    /* implied by ISO C: all zeros thereafter */
};

static PyObject*
cons(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *car, *cdr;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO", &car, &cdr))
        return 0;
    return (PyObject*)cons_new(car, cdr);
}
static PyObject*
car(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *cons;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &cons_type, &cons))
        return 0;
    Py_INCREF(carof(cons)); return carof(cons);
}
static PyObject*
cdr(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *cons;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!", &cons_type, &cons))
        return 0;
    Py_INCREF(cdrof(cons)); return cdrof(cons);
}
static PyObject*
setcar(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *cons, *car;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!O", &cons_type, &cons, &car))
        return 0;
    Py_INCREF(car);
    Py_DECREF(carof(cons));
    carof(cons) = car;
    Py_INCREF(Py_None); return Py_None;
}
static PyObject*
setcdr(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *cons, *cdr;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!O", &cons_type, &cons, &cdr))
        return 0;
    Py_INCREF(cdr);
    Py_DECREF(cdrof(cons));
    cdrof(cons) = cdr;
    Py_INCREF(Py_None); return Py_None;
}
static PyMethodDef elemlist_methods[] = {
    {"cons",   cons,   METH_VARARGS},
    {"car",    car,    METH_VARARGS},
    {"cdr",    cdr,    METH_VARARGS},
    {"setcar", setcar, METH_VARARGS},
    {"setcdr", setcdr, METH_VARARGS},
    {0, 0}
};

void
initelemlist(void)
{
    PyObject *m = Py_InitModule("elemlist", elemlist_methods);
    cons_type.ob_type = &PyType_Type;
}

There -- not too bad, is it?  I've spelled out the INCREF and DECREF
just to show there aren't all that many subtleties.  I'd normally use
Py_BuildValue in lieu of the 4 occurrences of INCREF/return pairs,
so that would leave only two INCREF on construction, two DECREF
on destruction, and two occurrences of the rebinding-idiom e.g.:
    Py_INCREF(car);
    Py_DECREF(carof(cons));
    carof(cons) = car;
increment-RHS, decrement-LHS, copy the pointer.  Actually, I
don't think the subtlety is really needed here -- there has to be
one extra extant reference to the car object even in a case such
as setcar(x,car(x)), so even if the DECREF was done first it
would not destroy the object -- but one does get used to using
this pattern in all sorts of reference-counting systems, and in
some cases it can save one's skin:-).  But anyway, how hard can
it be, really, to learn about this idiom even if you've never used
a reference-counting system before...?

There ARE subtleties elsewhere, in that at first one has to look
up which API calls just borrow a reference versus which ones
do the increment.  There IS some logic to it however (albeit
not quite as simple as COM's rule "always incref when copying
a pointer, always decref before overwriting or forgetting a
pointer" -- Python's subtler approach has a tiny performance
advantage at the cost of some mental overhead) so eventually
one learns the basic cases, though... hmmm, maybe you ARE
right about the subtlety, all in all, even though it's not quite as
bad as all that -- but having gone to the trouble of coding this
example I think I'll post it anyway!-)


Alex





From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 14 18:20:24 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:20:24 +0200
Subject: Errata: Typo in Python Tutorial
References: <79179cf5.0108141202.14390c71@posting.google.com> <9lc5l40234n@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1446755.uoxibFcf9D@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

> But, alas, the brackets are traditional (and, double alas,
> sometimes there IS no 'argument default value' that is
> truly equivalent to the total lack of an argument... e.g,
> the getattr builtin -- there's no value one can pass as
> the 3rd argument to make it behave as it does when
> it's called with only 2 arguments).

In a most of cases, one can pass None. But may be for builtins, that 
specifying None is different to specifyig nothing.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 12:35:42 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:35:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
In-Reply-To: <20010829171846.E8680@Nutella>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291234240.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Nicolas Evrard wrote:

> Hello everyone, this is my first post to the list and let me say that I
> find python really exciting ... Looks a bit like scheme but is fast and
> have a large community of users ...
>
> Here 's what I've done :
>
> To try the __comp__ method I've done a class for complex number (the usual
> example). But here are the result I've got :
>
> >>> Complex(7,2).__comp__(Complex(3,4))
> 1
> >>> Complex(7,2) < Complex(3,4)
> 1
>
> the definition of __comp__ I've done :
>
>     def __comp__(self, other) :
>         if self.r < other.r :
>             return -1
>         elif self.r == other.r :
>             if self.i < other.i :
>                 return -1
>             elif self.i == other.i : return 0
>         else : return 1
>
> But in the reference manual it says that __comp__ should return a positive
> integer if self > other ... and obviously it isn't the case.

Mmm. The question becomes "When do you consider one complex number to be
greater or less than another?" Answer that question first and you will find
your solution.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sun Aug 26 21:39:15 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:39:15 GMT
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
References: <mailman.998866419.18595.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhi7.178110$g_3.31431688@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998866419.18595.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:
>
> > 2.  Also,
> > >>> x = 4 + 7j
> > >>> x.imag = 6
> > error:  object has a read-only attrib
> > >>> x.real = 7
> > same error of read-olny attrib
> >
> > why?
>
> Because. I could look into the source (or point you to the source), but
the
> answer would still simply be "Because".
>
So to pass a value to either the imag or real part:
>>> a=1
>>> b=2
>>> c=complex(a,b)
>>> b = 3
>>> c=complex(a,b)
and so on........
or something like:
>>> def PassValue(a,b):
...  r=complex(a,b)
...  return r
Maan




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 17:40:48 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:40:48 +0200
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr> <Xns90FF65D2CC75Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <3B7C38BF.8BD22DC5@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <9lhere0236k@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Vassilis Virvilis" <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> wrote in message
news:3B7C38BF.8BD22DC5 at iit.demokritos.gr...
    ...
> So is it safe to do?
> if type(a) is type(b): blah blah

It will work just the same as

    if type(a) == type(b): blah blah

(Both are generally a terrible idea, but in the extremely rare case
where you do need type-identity they're equivalent).


Alex





From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug 13 23:35:31 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:35:31 GMT
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <701e7.101056$EP6.25885223@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9l9d4k02opd at enews4.newsguy.com...
> "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
> news:cpzo94dqvy.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
>     ...
> >     http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
>
> I thought I had understood it, but still don't see where it mentions
> "x.__class__ = whatever" now being forbidden or restricted?

I rechecked.  It does not.  Did find
"For instance of built-in types, x.__class__ is now the same as
type(x): "
which does hint that it might be problematical for subtypes.

Is the proposed restriction for subtype insstances only or also for
subclass instances?

> > It would be relatively easy to allow __class__ assignment only if
(a)
> > the new class is a subclass of the old class, and (b) the size of
the
> > new instance is the same as the old instance.  Would this be
sufficient?

Given that there are sensible reason to mutate instances (to reflect
real or virtual mutations - see Another two examples of using changing
classes by Itamar Shtull-Trauring and my reply) this would seem
desirable.

Terry J. Reedy





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 00:21:22 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:21:22 -0500
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1>
        <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org>
        <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com>
        <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15227.19010.92484.208286@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> Python seems to be in a somewhat dangerous phase of development
    Paul> right now, where a lot of the design still isn't worked out, but
    Paul> lots of people are using it, which means any mistakes made are
    Paul> hard to undo because people's code will break.  Instead, kludges
    Paul> get tacked on, potentially resulting in an eventual Perl-like
    Paul> monstrosity (why is there a special type of object for xrange?).

Objects/rangeobject.c was first checked in Oct 26, 1993.  Checkin was by
Guido with this comment:

    rangeobject.[ch]: new object type to speed up range operations (not
    convinced this is needed!!!) 

I think Guido can be forgiven this misstep, since it was well before he had
set his sights on world domination.  Actually, I'm kinda surprised the
checkin message wasn't in Dutch...  ;-)

    Paul> If you look at the evolution of Scheme, the designers tried very hard
    Paul> to get things right from the start, rather than doing what was
    Paul> convenient and fixing it later.  

Yeah, but Scheme was not drawn on a completely fresh piece of paper either.
While my impression is that the Schemers like to put some distance between
themselves and the rest of the Lisp community, it's not like most of the
problems they were tackling hadn't been encountered before.  The xrange
function was added to Python seven years and nine months ago.  Iterators
were only added in the last few months.  I think xrange has done just fine
in the intervening time.  It will get put out to pasture over the next year
or two, with a pat on the back and a gold watch.  Much better treatment than
the access statement got...

Python was mostly a one-man show in the early days.  If Guido didn't write
it he had to at least be able to read and understand everything anyone else
did write.  He was not only the chief cook and bottlewasher, but the dog
that guarded of the gates of Hell^H^H^H^HRCS as well.  He no longer has to
growl at the gates quite so viciously, because there are a number of people
he trusts to maintain many (most?) significant parts of the system, so more
ideas that just couldn't have been tackled five years ago can go from idea
to stable implementation in fairly short order.

    Paul> That's fair too.  Here's something I don't understand: why is it
    Paul> that the default value of a function arg is evaluated just once,
    Paul> instead of whenever the function is called?

Then it wouldn't be a default now, would it?  It would just be another
parameter.  ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Fri Aug 31 14:48:56 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 18:48:56 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <slrn9ov43m.ook.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <9mom6o$q52$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> In article <auLj7.10$j9.166 at castor.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

>>> What widget set do you prefer?

>> just a gui for windows...

> [BTW, top-quoting isn't really considered kosher on Usenet.]

> If by "windows" you mean Microsoft Windows, then your choices are

>  Tkinter
>  wxWindows
>  MFC
>  

PyQt

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 09:45:10 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:45:10 GMT
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9niar5.ihu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:32:09 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> pisze:

> After some time working with Python I noticed that
> I use "-s and '-s according to the following rule:

I use a different rule:

I use "" quotes when the string represents a piece of text, usually
in a human language. These strings have an encoding, possibly are in
Unicode, and are usually intended to be displayed.

I use '' quotes when the string represents an unique symbol, tag, or
token drawn from a fixed set. For this purpose I would use symbols in
Lisp and an enumeration type in some other languages. They would be
rendered using a typewriter font on paper. Often the string value is
not important, only being different from different strings, and it's
displayed only for debugging. This extends to other technical strings
like HTML tags, method names, configuration option names, even URLs.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From sheila at spamcop.net  Fri Aug 31 16:15:29 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:15:29 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <slrn9ovpna.qb9.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <O6Sj7.66$j9.376@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <ltrvotoe3plvfeq1gg3bkmhbkrcnk3bpcf@4ax.com>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:06:06 GMT, "jeroen paul goudsmit"
<hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<O6Sj7.66$j9.376 at castor.casema.net>:

:It's very nice of you that you gave me that site, but it don't works.. I
:don't know why, i exactly wrote the lines from that site. I really get mad
:if it don't works. You go to a site and, it don't works.  That's annoying.
:Not your fault. I only say that the site sucks, cause it don't works.

But that site "does work". The instructions on that site are correct,
and that is a classic site to be referred to for instruction on Tkinter.

If you are following the instructions exactly, then something is not
right with your set up.

Otherwise, maybe you are not following the instructions exactly.

With what information you are posting here, it is very hard for us to
tell what is wrong.

Give us a complete script, or a better yet, a complete copy and paste of
an interactive session from the time you start up the interpreter to the
time of the error messages. And include the error messages exactly as
printed by the Python interpreter (i.e. copy and past them. Do not
re-type them in your own words).

Referring you to a different site for instruction would not help. If the
directions you copied didn't work from that site, they won't work from
another site, either.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 16:03:45 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:03:45 GMT
Subject: Saving disk space (was: Re: Python versions (was Re: os.execl()))
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com> <mailman.998937042.23650.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <di9lotsvnk6f0f598dc8nfsojusdcn5no5@4ax.com>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:29:38 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998937042.23650.python-list at python.org>:

:    Sheila> I had suggested that he provide a more recent version in a
:    Sheila> separate directory, but in the end, I got to install the
:    Sheila> upgraded Python in my own server space. (And it takes no small
:    Sheila> chunk of space, for those of us on small, basic web hosting
:    Sheila> packages.)
:
:You can trim back some of the space from a standard install by deleting all
:the .pyc or .pyo files.  If you never use "python -O" or "python -OO", the
:.pyo files will never be used.  On my sytem the .pyo's take up 7MB and the
:.pyc's almost 9MB (just how much you save will depend on what you have
:installed in the site-packages directory).  If write access to your
:python2.1 directory tree is possible by those scripts needing .py[co] files,
:you can just scrap all of them and let those scripts compile only what they
:need.

Thanks. I just deleted the .pyo files, and that reclaimed a little over
3 meg. I'm not really hurting for space at the moment, so I'll leave the
.pyc files there.

(I had already deleted all the .py[oc] files under lib-old. I'm a bit
too cautious to delete the .py files in there.)

:You can trim another 4MB by deleting the test/ directory and another 100K or
:so by deleting lib-old (just make sure you don't actually use any of those
:modules in your scripts).

The test/ directory is long since gone, as the total space my site had
at the time of last install, was 45 MB. Now I have 70 MB, with near to
half of that free. But clearly, no room for the unnecessary stuff. When
I do an install, I have to temporarily go over my quota. I haven't
called it to the sysadmin's attention, and he hasn't said anything.
After the install is complete, I start deleting stuff like crazy.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From samf+usenet at frii.com  Tue Aug 28 16:24:57 2001
From: samf+usenet at frii.com (Sam Falkner)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 14:24:57 -0600
Subject: unittest / pdb tricks?
Message-ID: <ii7lmk4kk4m.fsf@central.sun.com>

I'm doing a lot of work with the unittest module right now.  I like
the default behavior of unittest.main(), where it runs as many tests
as it can, even if some fail.

But, what I also want is the option to be able to do "pdb.pm()" when a
test fails.  Looking at the source for unittest.py, it doesn't look
like there's a way to have the failure "fail far enough" to run
pdb.pm().

Do other people do this?  If so, what's an easy and clean way to do
it?

Thanks!

- Sam


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 15:30:29 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:30:29 -0500
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>
References: <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
        <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>
Message-ID: <15208.22741.455743.470355@beluga.mojam.com>

    Christian> arg-name   pro                             con
    Christian> -------------------------------------------------------------
    Christian> class      obvious meaning                 clash with keyword

    ...

    Christian> As the first argument can immediately signify a class method
    Christian> if the same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an
    Christian> uncontentious name popped up.

I just noticed this thread.  Perhaps it's already been suggested, but I
think Python's parser could easily be modified to recognize "class" as the
first parameter in a method function's argument list.  There has been talk
in python-dev off-and-on about relaxing Python's keywords-can't-be-names
rules.  This might be a good time to revisit it.

Skip



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 17:44:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:44:25 +0200
Subject: Subclassing a win32com.client.Dispatch() Object?
References: <mailman.997816466.7215.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lc68a0247p@enews3.newsguy.com>

<rcspython at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997816466.7215.python-list at python.org...
> Can this be done usign win32com?
> I have win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS)
>
> I need something like
>
> class myclass(?????):#What values are used for ?????
>   def __init__(????):
>     #What code goes here?
>
> myobj = myclass(win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents
> ("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS))

the win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents appears to return
an instance of class win32com.client.EventProxy, so you could
subclass that class, if you wish.  However, it's unusual for
a class to be initialized by an instance of its superclass (and
that one only defines a few special methods basically
implementing automatic delegation, anyway).

You could try something like:

class myclass(win32com.client.EventProxy):
    def __init__(self, epwrapper):
        # steal the com object from the proxy
        self.__dict__['_obj_']=epwrapper.__dict__['_obj_']
        del epwrapper.__dict__['_obj_']
        try: del epwrapper
        except: pass
    # insert any additional/overriding methods you want,
    # but NOT __del__, __getattr__, __setattr__, which
     # you want to inherit from EventProxy

But this may be too low-level and fussy -- it's just an
attempt to avoid the repeated layers of auto-delegation
that it would, alas, be all to easy to get otherwise.


Alex





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Sat Aug 11 17:34:50 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:34:50 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3B75A4FA.5595C61F@ActiveState.com>

Joal Heagney wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> I LOVE this language. Alex, you're empty class trick just made it into
> my private python scrap-book.

Why not also add it to a public scrapbook? (see the sig)
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Sat Aug 18 17:30:13 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:30:13 +0100
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au> <9l0fu80287j@enews4.newsguy.com> <cp66bv46jk.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ntnj5.4hb.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Guido van Rossum wrote:

> While I probably introduced this myself (pickle uses it), I have one
> reservation.  Assignment to self.__class__ is unique to Python -- it's
> not an idiom one can easily translate to other languages.  It's also a
> relatively new Python feature (I don't even know if Jython supports
> it).

Something very like it is possible in Smalltalk (#become:) and
in Common Lisp (CHANGE-CLASS). I suspect it's possible in Perl,
but I'm too lazy to check :-).

(It's possible that I have the name of the Smalltalk method
wrong. There definitely is one, though.)

Certainly, class-changing isn't possible in much less dynamic
languages like C++ and Java, but then lots of things you can do
in Python are impossible (or at least much harder) in much less
dynamic languages.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug  7 15:26:58 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:26:58 GMT
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <6yNb7.78753$EP6.18929455@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <4840ntsemvg19nb961td2a1qc4sr29seg5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6iXb7.79438$EP6.19274259@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

I wrote
> >There must be dozens of special data structures that *could* be
added.

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote
> Yes, but the point is,
>linked lists, if added, still wouldn't be any faster for just about
anyone.

Sorry, cannot make sense of that statement.

Terry J. Reedy





From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 21:38:25 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:38:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.
In-Reply-To: <9mk4du$eik$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108292136540.1479-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Formalin wrote:

> Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.

>From the Apache HTTP Server Project's website.

  http://httpd.apache.org/

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 29 15:35:57 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:35:57 +0200
Subject: Ref Count Checking
References: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4325613.PTg5d078U9@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> schrub:

> As part of an extension debugging exercise I printed refcounts
> relating to the structure
> ('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None),
> 'e1'], None) either created directly in Python or by my extension.
> 
> 
> An earlier pass revealed values of decrementing values
> for the None output from the extension (it was stealing a None).
> After Correcting I'm still getting differences.
> In particular the strings az1, ay1, b1, c1, d1, e1 seem to have counts
> from the extension which are 3 lower than from the python version.
> 
> Is there any way to deduce what the python count should be?
> I'm assuming that a string like az1 is reasonably unique so there
> shouldn't be any question of a library reference.

As Strings are unique, and internalized, may be the module as such 
(compiled code) contains references to the strings?

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 22 18:32:27 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:32:27 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3B83CFA6.F8E7ACA8@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o8cnr.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:30:51 GMT, Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> pisze:

>> >>> eval('B.%s' % 'a')
>> <unbound method A.a>
> 
> Yes, this is quite nice, thanks :-)

It's not nice!!!

IMHO eval should be avoided. In Python it almost always can be avoided.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug 13 19:07:34 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:07:34 +0200
Subject: Newbie lists question
References: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not>
Message-ID: <mjm9l9.qj7.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

(Let's hope the supersede feature works, else please ignore the previous
posting)

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:17:57 -0700, Wolfe Maykut <wolfe at spam.me.not> wrote:
>    Hi.  I'm trying to create a list on the end of a dictionary.   I'd
>like to have a single loop, but since the dictionary is dynamically
>generated it appears as if I have to test to see if the key is around
>and then treat each case differently in order to initialize the loop.
>It looks ugly.  Is there a nicer way of doing this that I'm missing?

I am not aware of a nicer solution with dictionaries, short of writing yet
another MultiDict class.

>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>import os, time, glob, string
>
>backupdir = glob.glob("/netbackups/.disks/disk*/*.out")
>
>prefixes = {}
>
>for file in backupdir:
>    filename = string.split(file, '/')[-1]
>    prefix = string.split(filename,'.')[0]
>    if prefixes.has_key(prefix):                     # This is the loop
>I think is tres' ugly
>       prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>    else:
>        prefixes[prefix] = []
>        prefixes[prefix].append(file)

I don't think this is ugly, it does even get quite nice when rewriting it:

if not prefixes.has_key(prefix):
    prefixes[prefix] = []
prefixes[prefix].append(file)

>[...]

If you insist on improving something, you could use the functions in os.path,
(like os.path.split and os.path.splitext) instead of doing the splitting
yourself ;-)

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Aug  3 00:32:17 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:32:17 +1200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>              <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

William Tanksley wrote:
> 
> If you insist.  I think "x in type" is cleaner than isinstance(x,type).
> The main problem with the second one is that it requires memory of the
> order of the arguments, as well as the name of the syntax.

How about

   x in class c

for isinstance, and

   class c1 in class c2

for issubclass?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug  6 05:42:24 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:42:24 GMT
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <mailman.997076529.8631.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6e5449.106280373@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:41:15 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter]
>> UIAM, the way I read it, the only way you can get -0 from multiply
>> is as a result of extreme underflow denormalizing to zero. Others
>> give plain zero.  Of course, my intel pentium book is not the official
>> ieee754 spec.
>
>I can't guess what you're reading.  Here from the FMUL docs, in the IA-32
>Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set
>Reference, available at, e.g.,
>
Sorry about the guesswork, specifics below ;-)

>http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/manuals/245471.htm
>
>The last (byte-serving) link will get you to it quickly w/o enduring a 6.7MB
>download of the whole thing:
>
>    The sign of the result is always the exclusive-OR of the source
>    signs, even if one or more of the values being multiplied is 0 or
>    [a graphic for infinity].
>
>Same as the 754 rules.
>

I was looking at (hardcopy)
"Pentium Processor Family Developer's Manual
Volume 3: Achitecture and Programming Manual
1995"

On page 7-11, "Table 7-8. Zero Operands and Results (Contd.)"
 +------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
 | Operation        |       Operands      |     Result            |
 +------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
 |                  | ?0 x ?0             | 0                     |
 |                  | ?0 x ?X, ?X x ?0    | 0                     |
 |                  | +X x +Y, -X x -Y    | +0[1]                 |
 |                  | +X x -Y, -X x +Y    | -0[1]                 |
 +------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
...
[1] When extreme underflow denormalizes the result to zero

I read the unadorned zeroes under results to mean the all-bits-zero
representing zero (which is also a positive zero).

(I hope '?' came through above, it's the symbol plus/minus, or
'+' over '-' in the same character symbol).

The instruction description for FMUL/FMULP/FIMUL on page 25-118
does not help resolve what "0" above means. It does not mention
the XOR sign rule.

I did follow with a second post containing

"My intel pentium book is plainly wrong, ignore previous doubt about *1.0 ;-)
 >>> math.atan2( 0.0,-0.0*1.0)
 3.1415926535897931
 >>> math.atan2( 0.0, 0.0*1.0)
 0.0"

Since plainly there is a different effect for -0.0*1.0 and 0.0*1.0,
both of which would seem to be covered by the second line in the table,
unless Python is interfering, which I wouldn't think.

It does that with python 1.5.2 on a '95-vintage P90 as well as on a more
recent 300mhzPII with python 2.1, so I'd say the book is unclear at best ;-/

Thanks for the intel URL. Hard copy can't compete up-to-datedness-wise.
Although I my browser/acrobat combo just wants to download the whole thing.
How do you get around that again?


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 17:40:10 2001
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 22:40:10 +0100
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k9svq$os4$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

> There were lots of proposals for this, all of them contentious to
> someone or another:

How about my `cl' suggestion?


Ralph.



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Aug  1 00:56:10 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 04:56:10 -0000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: None <mailman.996620943.17056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <996641770.29578@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth <brueckd at tbye.com>:
...
| And those benefits are? I'm still waiting for anyone to be specific about
| these benefits. Someone finally brought up the
| semi-automatic-integer-to-float promotion problem and maybe the potential
| for some modest performance gains (thank you!), but that's about it. Each
| person has to judge the costs vs benefits, but that seems like a pretty
| paltry list of "plusses".

You couldn't have expected to get a long list of horror stories that
would stand your hair on end and send you off to the nearest strongly
typed language's site.  Most of us aren't chafing under the excessive
freedom of Python, it works for us just like as it does for you, or
we wouldn't be here.

But the observer is part of the equation.  Maybe our colleagues are
sick and tired of our Python programs blowing up all the time with
run time errors, and you should have asked _them_ to post examples
to c.l.p.

Anyway, it's all about errors, right?  Does this cover it -?

 -  I don't make all that many errors.
 -  I make errors, but I can fix them whenever they turn up.
 -  I catch errors with run time tests.
 -  I catch errors with compiler tools.
 -  I need to catch more errors than I currently do.

Most of us probably hit every one to some degree.  I think the point
may be, suppose you need to catch more errors than you currently do.
Maybe you perceive this after deploying your software, or maybe your
next project calls for exceptionally high standards of reliability.

So for sure, you need to step up the run time tests, but is that
enough?  It's really hard to test _everything_ - I don't know,
take exception handling, typically involves the exception data
and that data isn't very well formed.  Like socket errors that
usually have two args but once in a while only one.

Type checking would catch some of that, stuff you could have missed
otherwise.  It sure could be overrated, and especially when (as usual)
not well designed and integrated in the language, but that would be
like saying OOP is a dud - after evaluating it in C++.

On a different note, explicit type annotations arguably make a program
easier to understand.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From jgitomer at erols.com  Wed Aug  1 23:59:05 2001
From: jgitomer at erols.com (Jerry Gitomer)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:59:05 -0400
Subject: Pmw --  for password entry how do I get it to echo *
Message-ID: <9kaj51$23p$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

        I am building an application using the Pmw widget set and can't 
figure out how to do what show = '*' does for the plain vanilla 
Tkinter Entry widget.  I don't want to use plain Tkinter for 
three reasons; 1) because I can't figure out who to set it up so 
that focus in the userid/password dialog widget can be 
automatic, i.e. no mouse movement required, 2) I don't know how 
to get the dialog widget positioned where I want it on the 
screen, and 3) I can't get rid of "the ghost dialog box" that is 
so generously :-) displayed on my screen.

-- 
Jerry Gitomer
Once I learned how to spell DBA, I became one 


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 07:38:36 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:38:36 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <9mkqj9017al@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b8ebfe4.21582754@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9mnsvs02k03@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b8ebfe4.21582754 at wa.news.verio.net...
    ...
> BTW, it might be interesting if symbols existed as objects that
> could be returned by a function on the left hand side of '='
> so that
>     def foo()
>         return symbol('xxx')
>     ...
>     foo() = 'yyy'
> would result in
>     >>> xxx
>     'yyy'
> and foo would remain bound to the function.

That's "interesting" as in the proverbial Chinese curse "may
you live in interesting times", yes?  Such an injections of
"new local variables" which the compiler cannot predict at
compile-time is just as bad as that done by the exec statement
or "from bleargh import *" -- it has even less justification
than those two historical warts, too.

Even in Perl, "soft references" (via variable names) as
introduced in Perl 5 are widely considered too dirty for
words (and they're disabled by use strict, etc etc) -- the
last thing I'd want to see happen to Python would be a
degeneration towards such extra wartiness.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 05:49:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:49:26 +0200
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com>
Message-ID: <9l5jiq0lf8@enews4.newsguy.com>

"wim delvaux" <wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com> wrote in message
news:3B75D4D4.61B32D80 at adaptiveplanet.com...
> Hi all,
>
> just looking at python and wondering if I could integrate it.
>
> While thinking I was wondering if one could determine the type of a
> PyObject
    ...
>           if( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == String ) {

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/stringObjects.html

        if(PyString_Check(FirstArg)) {

performs exactly this.

>           } else if ( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == Integer ) {

http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/intObjects.html

        if(PyInt_Check(FirstArg)) {


Another possibility is
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/object.html

        PyObject theType = PyObject_Type(FirstArg);
        ...check with theType==PyString_Type , etc
        Py_DECREF(theType);    /* when done with it */


Alex





From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Wed Aug  1 17:30:14 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 14:30:14 -0700
Subject: mod-python or pypython
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0108011335040.25694-100000@research2.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <9k9sd6$ms4$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <Pine.A41.4.21.0108011335040.25694-100000 at research2.asu.edu>,
David Bear  <iddwb at imap1.asu.edu> wrote:
>
>was wanting to enhance apache with faster cgi.  I intent to exclusively use
>python for scripting.  I was wondering which would be a better way to go,
>using mod-python or pypython.. any one have recommendations?

If you're not wedded to Apache, then you might consider PyWX,

	http://pywx.idyll.org/

which attaches to AOLserver (free, open-source, scalable).  AOLserver has
a number of advantages over Apache at the moment, including a much cleaner
internal design & a very nice embedded Python interpreter (PyWX ;).

If you're stuck with Apache for technical or ideological reasons, you should
also take a look at mod_snake.  (I assume you meant mod_python and pyapache
above, right?)  mod_snake sounds like it is very clean, and I've heard several
different complaints about the state of mod_python and pyapache, additionally.

cheers,
--t


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 07:19:52 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:19:52 +0100
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <9klqpi$v86@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk> <gWCb7.58757$oh1.22303973@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <9koisp$1td4@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Ron Johnson" <ron.l.johnson at home.com> wrote in message
news:gWCb7.58757$oh1.22303973 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...

> How efficient is Python on VMS?

That's a tricky question. Starting up the interpreter is pretty much a
constant overhead, so for trivial tasks it's probably overkill.
For larger ones the advantage of precompiling to bytecode
(not to mention the expressivity of Python) tends to win out.

>  Also, how useful is it as a "super-DCL"?  Or does the lack of
> F$GETSYI, F$GETDVI, etc limit it's usefulness?

There are wrappers for the system services, so that's not a problem.
Long DCL scripts are frequently an abomination, and I tend to avoid
writing them if possible.

In the interests of balance, I should note that one has to be prepared
to hack on Python/VMS a little. The VMS port doesn't build out of the
box (thanks for the 2.1 port BTW, Uwe). The other P-language does
and is more widely used. Just a point to bear in mind.




From just at letterror.com  Wed Aug  1 03:35:04 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:35:04 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>  
	            <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B67B126.2A3EDFA0@letterror.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> > I'm starting to like the is{subclass,instance}() version. It's probably
> > quicker for one to understand code written by others, and for
> > non-fulltime-python-programmers to remember what "in" means in each
> > context.
> 
> You may be right.  isinstance() and issubclass() are somewhat standard
> in other languages I believe, and hard to misunderstand.  The form
> 
>   if x in list: ...
> 
> looks a lot more confusing.  I may withdraw this idea.

Also: what would "for x in type" mean? I presume nothing, but I can't think
off-hand of another case where "if x in y" is meaningful and "for x in y"
isn't. But I see it's been withdrawn in the meantime anyway...

Just


From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 17:46:02 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:46:02 GMT
Subject: PyQt
Message-ID: <uWzh7.14643$6x5.3829744@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

i installed PyQt from sources
my apps don't find the qt module
where is it installed after a fresh installation?

tx



From jparlar at home.com  Sun Aug 19 19:49:36 2001
From: jparlar at home.com (Jay Parlar)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:49:36 -0400
Subject: MSHTML
Message-ID: <20010819235439.SOZZ4346.femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com@jparlar>

For the application that my colleague and I are working on, it is necessary that we be able to take the raw HTML of 
some document and pull out just the text, with all tags removed. 

So far, we've been using the standard HTMLParser, and it's been doing an *ok* job. In an ideal world, I think we 
could keep using it, but the fact is that there's so much garbage HTML out there, it causes some problems. Besides, 
HTMLParser is only up to HTML2.0 standards, and while my knowledge of HTML is very limited, I'm know we've 
moved past that.

So, we've started playing around with MSHTML.dll, hoping to use that to get the text from a page. Our basic method 
so far has been along the lines of the following:

import win32com.client
doc = win32com.client.Dispatch ( 'htmlfile' )
doc.write(some_document)
plainText = doc.body.innerText

Now, most of the time this works, but sometimes, I don't know why, it goes a little crazy on us. On my personal 
machine, it crashes on occasion (I'm not asking for a solution to the crashing, I'd need to give a lot more info to you 
for that). However, what really infuriates us are the automated things that IE tends to do, such as checking to see if a 
plugin is installed, or trying to create a connection to the internet. It seems that just simply feeding the HTML code 
with doc.write() causes IE to do the automated things it often does. Our code has to process hundreds of HTML 
documents, and should do it automatically, but will often stop, with a download window popping up asking if we'd like 
to download some plugin.

My question: Is there any method to supress all the other IE stuff so I can essentially use MSHTML as a pure 
replacement to HTMLParser?


Jay Parlar
----------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering III
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

"Though there are many paths
At the foot of the mountain
All those who reach the top
See the same moon."





From diggory at fatbabies.com  Tue Aug  7 17:53:15 2001
From: diggory at fatbabies.com (Diggory Venn)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:53:15 GMT
Subject: Documentation source
Message-ID: <frZb7.226676$2O6.14657052@news2.aus1.giganews.com>

How do I find the source files for making the tutorial?  Trying to learn
how to document python code, but the "Documenting Python" document
doesn't really tell you what you need.

--
diggory
I hate being shy.


From parz at home.com  Wed Aug 15 23:14:27 2001
From: parz at home.com (Parzival Herzog)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:14:27 GMT
Subject: Crash in Windows message loop, affected by Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
Message-ID: <nUGe7.9620$Tn1.3077509@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

I have a problem with a crash in a Windows (Win 2K) message loop
coded in a python extension module. I wonder if someone can
see something wrong with the code below.

The context is this: My Python program was originally coded using
wxWindows. It worked very well, but, after running for a full week or
more on my client's machines, their machine would crash with a
totally garbled display. All the common things were checked,
memory leaks, GDI object leaks, the display cards were changed,
and on and on. I ran the program on two of my own machines,
and it ran for more than two weeks without failure. My client
calls the shots, and he required that the app be re-written to
not use wxWindows. I thereupon coded a C extension module to
perform basic graphics and gui operations, and wrote a
Python module that implemented the subset of the wxWindows
interface that was used by my app, using this extension module.
This too "works". My Python program delivers essentially the
same appearance and behaviour using my interface and extension
module, as it did when it ran using wxWindows.  However, there
are a couple of unresolved problems, and I am hoping to get
some help with one of them.

The app runs, and when I change desktops (I have a multiple-
desktop utility), a windows event occurs, and BEFORE it is
delivered by GetMessage, a crash (acces violation) occurs
inside of the GetMessage, which had bee blocked until this
(unknown) event occurs. The same crash also occurs if I
use the little applet to magnify the screen. That applet
reconfigures the desktop so that the "screen" is reduced
in size, leaving a band at the top of the screen that displays
the magnified pixels near the cursor. When the magnifier
does this reconfiguration of the desktop, an unknown event
occurs, and GetMessage crashes before it can return the
event to the message loop. Again I have checked for
GDI object leaks, memory leaks, reference counting errors
etc.

Although my app when fully functioning is multi-threading,
I removed all the threading code. No threads but the main
thread are running, so there are no deadlock or resource
races or other concurrent programming issues as far a I
know. However, the crash will not occur if the
Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS ... Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
bracket is removed from around the GetMessage call.

Can anyone shed some light on what the problem here could be?

Thanks,

    Parzival


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

static PyObject *MyWin_MessageLoop (PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
   // Windows dispatch loop begins here.
   MSG Message;
   bool Quit = false;
   for ( ; ; ) {

      if (::PeekMessage(&Message, NULL, 0, 0, PM_NOREMOVE) == 0) {
          Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
// App crashes somewhere in GetMessage if Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
// call above is executed. Does not crash if it and the matching
// Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS below are removed. No threads are
// instantiated or active.
          Quit = GetMessage(&Message, NULL, NULL, NULL) == 0;
          Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
      } else
          Quit = GetMessage(&Message, NULL, NULL, NULL) == 0;

      if (Quit) break;

      if (Message.message == WM_USER + 1) {
         InvalidateRect (_Window, NULL, TRUE);
         UpdateWindow (_Window);
      } else if (Message.message == WM_USER + 2) {
         if ( _App ) {
            PyObject* args = (PyObject*) Message.lParam;
            PyObject* res = PyObject_CallMethod(_App, "OnEvent", "O", args);
            Py_DECREF(args);
            if ( res == NULL && PyErr_Occurred() )
               PyErr_Print();
         }
      } else {
         TranslateMessage (&Message);
         DispatchMessage (&Message);
      }
   }





From andrew at mail.idrive.com  Wed Aug 29 16:27:14 2001
From: andrew at mail.idrive.com (andrew)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 13:27:14 -0700
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
Message-ID: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com>

in interactive interpreter, i get these results:

>>> 21.0 /5
4.2000000000000002
>>> 22.0 /5
4.4000000000000004
>>> 23.0/5
4.5999999999999996
>>> 24.0/5
4.7999999999999998
>>>


21.0/5 should be 4.2
22.0/5 should be 4.4
23.0/5 should be 4.6
24.0/5 should be 4.8


other double/int operations resolve correctly (e.g., 26.0/6)

i'm not sure, but i think i'm only seeing this with double/5 operations

anyone else seeing this?  is this a known bug?


From altis at semi-retired.com  Mon Aug 13 14:54:04 2001
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:54:04 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net>

The comments about tkinter shipping with Python are valid. The question is
often, why doesn't wxPython get included as part of the Python distribution?
One of these days, Python needs to throw off the shackles of tcl/tkinter
(let the flames begin).

Anyway, when we started the PythonCard project:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

we discussed having a generic framework that works on top of any of the
available GUI libraries for Python. In order to make faster progress, we
decided to leverage the most powerful one that was free and worked with the
OSes that have the largest installed base (Windows, Linux). We ended up
building the framework so that we can probably plug tkinter or anygui
(another project underway) later on, but wxPython works so well, I'm not
sure we'll be inclined to go that way. The big downside to wxPython for me
is that the port to the Macintosh is not complete yet, though wxWindows,
which wxPython is built on top of, is usable today. I get mixed reports on
Solaris, but I think it works there too.

Other people have mentioned the confusing documentation, which is geared
towards C++. What we ended up doing was wrapping the event model and the
major widgets in order to hide what is often the most complex part of using
wxPython, so as a user of the PythonCard framework, you never have to look
at the wxPython docs. Of course, that means we have to do our own docs at
some point, but though we're only doing the prototype right now, we've
already started the process.

You can see some sample screenshots here:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples.html

None of the samples, with the exception of the turtle library, took me more
than a day to build and usually the time is more like fifteen minutes
(minimal.py) to a few hours, including layout work. I don't suggest you
commit a big project to PythonCard today since the API is still moving, but
it is more than adequate for building your own small apps and saving
yourself the grief that is tk.

ka

"Learn Python" <learnpython at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997687902.6272.python-list at python.org...
>
> hi all,
>
> I know that this is a redundant question.
> I started off with Tkinter from
> Programming Python book ( explained in detail).
> I liked it.
>
> Then i stumbled across wxPython and the kind of qoutes/comments i found on
> the web site were so impressive.
> for eg :
>
> "Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
>
> -- Eric S. Raymond
>
> Am so confused???
> the docs were OK. There does'nt seem to be a book on it either :-(
> Then can anyone answer the above question:
> "Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
> :-)
>
> what s'd i be doing? I have to say here that i dont use python @ work but
am
> learning out of my own interest. But w'd like to master atleast one GUI
> package.
>
> thanks in advance,
> karthik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Aug  2 03:28:05 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010802092802.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 01-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
 >  (Not that it makes any difference here, but
 >  since you undertstand the math so much better
 >  than I do: Exactly what definition of
 >  "complex number" do you have in mind here?
 >  The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
 >  real numbers".)

I'd say it's not the standard definition, but rather the standard
representation. The complex field C is an extension of degree 2 of the 
reals R (by the way, the only possible extension of R). To get a 
representation of the complex field you need a root of an irreducible
polynomial over R. The standard representation uses the polynomial 
x**2 + 1, and we usually call that root i or j. This means that we have
i**2 = -1. This choice is natural, since it gives the easiest rules for
arithmetic operations. However, you could use any other irreducible 
polynomial over R, e.g. x**2 + x + 1. You still would use a pair of 
reals to represent a complex number, but another pair than you would
have in the standard representation. And the arithmetic rules would
be different as well.

What I believe Greg is aiming at is that the complex numbers are more
than a pair of reals. A pair of reals is not a complex number unless
you specify the arithmetic rules of the pair.

Now *I* would not mind to allow complex numbers with integers as 
coefficients. That way I would get Gaussian integers without specifying
my own class for the purpose. _But_, I understand that very few would
have a need for that. I mean, how many acually uses complex numbers
at all in their programs. Most people still regard complex numbers as
a very obscure corner in math. About only a 150 years ago, when complex
numbers were new, many _mathematicians_ thought of them as something 
the devil had produced.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    02-Aug-2001
Time:    08:48:18

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From carsten.schroeder at hoergeraete-schroeder.de  Tue Aug 14 07:31:34 2001
From: carsten.schroeder at hoergeraete-schroeder.de (Carsten Schröder)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:31:34 +0200
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
Message-ID: <9lb1ut$a7i$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello!

May anybody please tell me which GERMAN book suits best for a python
beginner?

Thx Carsten




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 31 07:15:25 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:15:25 -0400
Subject: help me
References: <a74b343d.0108302126.6259bd24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8F71CD.30AA86EE@engcorp.com>

Du Wellsun wrote:

>   I'm a big new fan of python. I want to be a master in python.
[...]
>  Thanks a lot. I like python.

>   I also want to make friends with everybody here.

You just did! :-)

> I don't like Java , Perl , Php and VB, they make me tired much more,
> though advantages.

And now they'll die for you, too. :-)


From dwig at advancedmp.net  Mon Aug 20 17:37:47 2001
From: dwig at advancedmp.net (Don Dwiggins)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:37:47 -0700
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python  Path Blues)
In-Reply-To: Jeff Shannon's message of "Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:11:11 -0700"
References: <mailman.998008948.12318.python-list@python.org>
	<tnqeusm7gm6f8c@corp.supernews.com> <3B7D502F.3539FBFD@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ud75qct04.fsf@advancedmp.net>

Jeff Shannon writes:
>> What is important here is that this can be a BIG turn-off for beginners.
>> It took me more than a day of tinkering with the registry while trying to
>> make DCOracle2 and mxODBC packages for Python run correctly.  Then I
>> discovered it was all a matter of adding PYTHONPATH into the environment in
>> Win NT and Win ME (for Win ME through running msconfig  then going to
>> Environment tab or creating a PYTHONPATH setting in autoexec.bat which
>> updates the Win ME environment).

> Well, there are other ways than tinkering with the registry, too.  Haven't tried
> it myself, but I've heard that putting a python.pth file in the same directory
> as your python.exe, will cause each line of the .pth file to be interpreted as a
> path to add to sys.path.  On the other hand, I fiddled with my registry (on
> Win95/98) to add directories to my path, and, while I don't recall *exactly*
> what I did with it, it only took me a few tries to figure out.  I do agree that
> this could be better documented, though...  but I suspect that, due to the ease
> (and portability) of using .pth files, that it's not going to be a high
> priority.

FWIW, after various attempts, here's what I came up with that works for me:

In the Python installation directory, I put a file "dwig.pth" (name isn't
important, as long as it ends in ".pth"; I wanted to make it clear on
looking at the directory that I put it there), which contains:
  e:\MyPython
That is, it points to a directory where good stuff will be found.
**BTW, the line should end with "\n", not "\r\n".

In e:\MyPython, I put a file "sitecustomize.py" to add to the the path
  all the modules that I stick into the directory, coded as follows:
------------------------------------------------------------
### Customize Python's environment for this site.  Depends on having a file
### "*.pth" (with Unix line endings) in the Python installation directory
### that points to the directory containing this file.

## Append all first-level subdirectories to the path
import sys, os.path

def makepath(*paths):
    dir = os.path.join(*paths)
    return os.path.normcase(os.path.abspath(dir))

here = os.path.dirname(__file__)
try:
    names = os.listdir(here)
except os.error:
    pass
names = map(os.path.normcase, names)
names.sort()
for name in names:
    dir = makepath(here, name)
    if dir not in sys.path and os.path.isdir(dir):
        sys.path.append(dir)
------------------------------------------------------------
IIRC, I adapted the code from {Python install dir}\Lib\site.py.

Now, I just dump good stuff like McMillan's installer and wxPython into
e:\MyPython and hey presto! it's available.

Would something like this make a good entry for the cookbook?

-- 
Don Dwiggins                    "Solvitur Ambulando"
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net




From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug  8 13:30:17 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:30:17 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <9krlpt02o20@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
 <9krlpt02o20@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081210110.1093-100000@cc489744-a>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam at home.com> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000 at cc489744-a...
> > Hi pythoners,
> > You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> > mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was modal.
> > Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get syntax
> > highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What more
>
> I don't see why you're trying to fire up an editor flamewar

Yes, I wasn't thinking at all.  I am *really* sorry.  I wish I could
take back this message, I was a total jerk.  Don't worry about
responding to my rants, I have realized I was terribly wrong about
sending such a trollish message.  _Some_ of my other message was
(supposed to be) humor, but now that I read it agian, it is just mean.
Sorry!

> here (isn't comp.editors more appropriate for that?), but,
> moreover, you missed the MOST important Vim feature -- you
> can *SCRIPT* it in Python (not to slight Emacs Lisp, but,
> this IS c.l.python...:-).  Syntax features for Python are a
> dime a dozen these days, but I don't think all that many
> editors accept Python as their scripting language (you do
> have to compile Vim specifically with Python-scripting
> enabled, though -- a given pre-built binary might not
> have that option selected:-).

(Emacs Lisp is a nifty language, but Python takes the cake) True, I
should have said something like that.  I have Python enabled, but Python
really isn't very important for an editor.  It takes a bit of time to
get at the Vim commands...

> > could you want?  (Note:  I love Vim, please don't attack me for slightly
> > insulting Emacs, I do know that Emacs has a HUGE amount of useful
> > features)
>
> More than just about *any* other single program on the
> planet, I suspect (but that won't sway us old vi-lovers,
> particularly now that Oualline has a book out specifically
> on VIM...!-).

(Do you mean that Emacs has 'More than just about *any* other single
program on the planet', or what else people could want?)  Another
response informed me that Emacs+Python is spiffier than I thought!  I
guess I thought there was an entire web-page devoted to Emacs's Python
mode, when Vim's was just as good, but Emacs's Python mode is better
than Vim's, so I have no more complaints.

Once again I AM SORRY!


-- 
     singing person: ``There's nothing quite as wonderful as money,
     There's nothing quite as beautiful as cash...''
     choire: ``money money money money money money money...''
               -- Monty Python::music

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 10:04:14 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:04:14 -0500
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
In-Reply-To: <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com>
        <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
        <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
        <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com>
        <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <mailman.998482775.12377.python-list@python.org>
        <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15237.3422.922130.428206@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?  
    Paul>         [f(x) for x in a]

    Paul> just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise
    Paul> equivalent to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,

    Paul>         map(lambda x: f(x), a).

    Paul> Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see
    Paul> (which is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature
    Paul> made it into the language.

List comprehensions can be more complex than the example you showed and they
run in the scope of the function they are enclosed in, so, unlike lambda,
they have access to all the current crop of local variables without
resorting to default arg hacks or requiring nested scopes.  Section 5.14 of
the Python tutorial gives a few more examples.  None of them are terribly
complex, but that is a tutorial, after all. ;-)

I was never much of a Lisper, so I'm not sure how you'd write the following
list comprehensions

    >>> vec1 = [2, 4, 6]
    >>> vec2 = [4, 3, -9]
    >>> [x*y for x in vec1 for y in vec2]
    [8, 6, -18, 16, 12, -36, 24, 18, -54]
    >>> [x*y for x in vec1 for y in vec2 if y > 3]
    [8, 16, 24]
    >>> [x*y for x in vec1 for y in vec2 if y >= 3]
    [8, 6, 16, 12, 24, 18]

using just map and lambda (I'll throw in filter for free ;-).  If you could,
I suspect it would be fairly inscrutable for the average Python programmer.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 11:09:14 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:09:14 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <mailman.998796398.21253.python-list@python.org> <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <3b88ddd1.500819830@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <t54iotghchja283c2lrpgptmhkg38vfcm3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:44:17 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<3b88ddd1.500819830 at wa.news.verio.net>:

:http://starship.python.net/crew/jjkunce/python/ntposixfile.py
:
:might be useful?
:Note from my other post: Microsoft example code for _locking uses
:_sopen rather than fopen (or _open). The s in _sopen is for shared
:file access, so I wonder if python's builtin open is affected, since
:it uses fopen.
:
:The ntposixfile.py seems to go to __builtin__.open() as well, though,
:so if _sopen does something different and required, the same problem
:should appear. Hard to believe there wouldn't be more noise on google
:about it though, if _locking didn't work with fopen, unless people
:just quietly give up and go on to the win32 api...

I did download and try that code a couple of days ago. (Note that it
says, it hasn't really been tested thoroughly.)

Anyhow, when I tried to run the master/slave __main__ code in two
separate DOS console windows to test it, I got the "Permission denied"
errors using that module.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sun Aug 12 08:54:29 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:54:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: ANN: updated port of Python 2.1.1 to OS/2+EMX
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108052252140.81-100000@central>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108122230570.2732-100000@central>

I have uploaded an updated port of Python 2.1.1 to the incoming
directories of the Hobbes (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu) and LEO
(http://archiv.leo.org/) OS/2 software archives.

The update contains the following changes:-
- os.spawnv() and os.spawnve() use the native EMX routines rather than
  emulate them with fork();
- pythonpm.exe is now a real PM app with behaviour somewhat akin to the
  pythonw.exe in the Windows distribution.

The distributed archives are:
  python-2.1.1-os2emx-bin-010812.zip (binary installation package, 3.0MB)
  python-2.1.1-os2emx-src-010812.zip (source patches and makefiles, 106kB)

For those who already have the 010805 distribution, you only need to get
  python-2.1.1-os2emx-upd-010812.zip (250kB)

Note that the update archive has not been uploaded to Hobbes or LEO.  It
is available at http://www.andymac.org/python.html, along with the above
archives are if you can't find them at Hobbes or LEO.

OS/2 users enjoy!

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Aug  9 11:20:47 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:20:47 +0200
Subject: Problem: readline in Python 2.1 on SuSE 7.1
References: <slrn9n3q3s.8rv.huaiyu@linux.local>
Message-ID: <3B72AA4F.B46CCD76@lemburg.com>

Huaiyu Zhu wrote:
> 
> Problem installing Python 2.1 on SuSE 7.1 with readline support.
> 
> I've tried several variations of the configuration options
> 
> #readline readline.c -lreadline -ltermcap
> #readline readline.c -lreadline
> #readline readline.c -L/usr/lib -lreadline
> readline readline.c -lreadline -L/usr/share/misc/termcap
> 
> None of them worked. 


Python 2.1 uses distutils to compile in readline. If setup.py
doesn't find readline, you have to patch setup.py, not the
Modules/Setup file.

> Any ideas?  Following are what I found on the system:
> 
> $ locate termcap
> /etc/termcap
> /usr/include/termcap.h
> /usr/lib/perl5/5.6.0/termcap.pl
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/i586-linux/termcap.ph
> /usr/lib/zsh/3.1.9/zsh/termcap.so
> /usr/share/doc/packages/wterm/etc/wterm.termcap
> /usr/share/emacs/20.7/etc/termcap.src
> /usr/share/man/man3/termcap.3ncurses.gz
> /usr/share/man/man5/termcap.5.gz
> /usr/share/misc/termcap
> /usr/share/zsh/help/termcap
> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/etc/sun.termcap
> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/etc/xterm.termcap

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH
______________________________________________________________________
Consulting & Company:                           http://www.egenix.com/
Python Software:                        http://www.lemburg.com/python/




From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Sat Aug 18 08:19:04 2001
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:19:04 +0100
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com> <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <tlfqnt84r54idgtstjanugkvhn86tp1qlq@4ax.com> <3B7D6351.2B6B2031@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5hsqnt08u6n3cu7921c66cokcr6mkv79pn@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:32:49 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

>Well, the alternative argument could be that, if you don't need to setup and
>teardown in between various tests, then they could be coded as subtests of a
>single, larger test...  OTOH, if you *do* have high setup/teardown overhead, which
>*does* require being redone for each test, then coding it each time would be a
>pain.  Lumping subtests together is easier than multiple copies of
>setup/teardown...

I'm not sure I agree. The long and short of it is that both cases can happen.
But look at my example "for real" (sort of)

class testSimpleQueries(unittest.TestCase):
    def setUp(self):
        # May take seconds to execute...
        self.connection = DB.Connect(connect_str)
    def tearDown(self):
        self.connection.Disconnect()
    def exec_query(self, q):
        "Trivial helper to run a query"
        return self.connection.Execute(q)
    def testQ1(self):
        "Simple query"
        q = "select 1 from dual"
        assertEqual(1, self.exec_query(q))
    def testQ2(self):
        "Exception when no rows returned"
        q = "select 1 from dual where 1=0"
        assertRaises(DB.Error, self.exec_query(q))
    # And 100 more trivial queries...

You get the idea. The setup costs a *lot* in relative terms of time (each test
query takes, say, 0.01 second). You really want to only do that once. But you
don't really want to code a single huge test - it destroys the reporting of the
individual test docstrings by unittest.main(). What do you do? I don't say it's
not possible to code this - just that the documentation doesn't make it clear
*how*.

Remember, I'm arguing that the common cases should be simple to code - not that
it's not possible to do these things. That makes people more likely to code unit
tests.

So really, I'm suggesting two things - (1) beef up the documentation of
unittest.main(), and give it a section to itself ("How to code a simple series
of unit tests"), and (2) if necessary, beef up unittest.main() to cater for such
common cases (I don't necessarily think this is required).

Paul.


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 28 00:33:09 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 21:33:09 -0700
Subject: Semaphores?
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org> <7xwv3og71o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9mf6u5$r74$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <7xwv3og71o.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>
>Anyone got a favorite way to implement shared memory semaphores in
>Python?  The obvious way is with an atomic test-and-set operation in
>the mmap module, but none seems to be listed in the docs.  Is there a
>preferred way to do it?  If not, should I submit a PEP to add
>something to mmap?

Do you have a cross-platform solution?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 28 23:18:09 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:18:09 +1000
Subject: bsddb module woes
In-Reply-To: <01082912524400.01463@ike>
References: <01082912524400.01463@ike>
Message-ID: <01082913180901.01463@ike>

On Wednesday 29 August 2001 12:52, Richard Jones wrote:
> We've just had a forced upgrade from redhat 6.2 to redhat 7.1, and the
> bsddb module won't open our (very important) db files any more.
>
> Python 2.1 (#1, Aug 29 2001, 11:53:30)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
> >>> import bsddb
> >>> bsddb.btopen('nodes.issue', 'r')
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> bsddb.error: (-30990, 'Unknown error 4294936306')
>
>
> I am guessing that this has something to do with the library that's been
> linked in. I've had to manually compile python 2.1 on the system, and all
> seemed to go fine.
>
> [root at dirk lib.linux-i686-2.1]# ldd bsddb.so
> 	libdb-3.1.so => /lib/libdb-3.1.so (0x4000b000)
> 	libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x40084000)
> 	/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x2aaaa000)
>
> Any ideas? More information required?

I found some hints from people having similar problems. They suggest using 
db_dump185 and db_load to convert the db files. My problem is:

% db_dump185 nodes.user
db_dump185: nodes.user: Invalid argument

We're now going to try to dump the dbs using a system with redhat 6.2 
installed...


     Richard



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 19:15:38 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:15:38 -0400
Subject: Pythonwin VSS Integration
References: <3b849e90.248962234@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <36gh7.13510$54.515835@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Integration" is a relative term. I'm just grateful it will check things out
when I try to change them! There is some code in the examples somewhere in
win32* that interacts with VSS. You could alwyas make your own PythonWin
menu entries for this and send the patches to Mark Hammond!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b849e90.248962234 at news.isar.de...
> Where can you do checkins with the VSS integration of Pythonwin? Only
> checkouts seem to be supported.




From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 12:18:04 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:18:04 +0100
Subject: scope question
References: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk> <cDTb7.79022$EP6.19140597@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B7014BC.7050901@herts.ac.uk>

Thanks, I was trying to write
global count += 1

which didn't help, got it now :)

Terry Reedy wrote:

>> count = 0
>> def function():
>>    print count
>> function()
>> #works fine, however, if I type this:
>> 
>> count = 0
>> def function():
>>    count += 1
>>    print count
>> function()
>> 
>> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'count' referenced before
> 
> assignment
> 
> 1. Read the manual on variables in function bodies.
> 2. Binding name anywhere in function body makes it local unlesss you
> declare it global:
>    global count
> 
> Terry J. Reedy



From haley at niwot.scd.ucar.edu  Tue Aug 28 15:50:38 2001
From: haley at niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Mary Haley)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:50:38 -0600
Subject: optimization issues on an SGI system
Message-ID: <9mgsme$cmm$1@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>

Greetings,

I recently built Python 2.1.1 and the Python Imaging Library (PIL)
1.1.2 on an SGI running IRIX 6.5, and heeded the warning found in the
README file in the top level directory of the python source tree:

   WARNING: There are bugs in the optimizer of some versions of
   SGI's compilers that can cause bus errors or other strange
   behavior, especially on numerical operations.  To avoid this,
   try building with "make OPT=".

If I didn't heed this warning, then the simple line of code:

   p = 0 + 1.

would cause python to core dump.  Turning off optimization fixed the
problem.

However, we have been known to run jobs that take 20+ hours, and using
a non-optimized version of python causes a 30% reduction in speed
compared to a partially optimized version of python. This partially
optimized version was created by narrowing down the problem to a
single file, and only turning off optimization for it. The file is
"$PYTHON/Objects/floatobject.c".

(Side note: I'm already compiling $PYTHON/Objects/complexobject.c with
optimization turned off, based on a comment I read on the web
somewhere.)

I ran into another optimization problem that caused the following PIL
script to core dump:

import Image
import ImageDraw

im = Image.new("RGB",(200,100))

draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
draw.line([(0,50),(200,50)])

im.show()

The offending file in this case was
"$PYTHON/Extensions/Imaging-1.1.2/path.c".

Using "-O1" on both of these files makes these tests run successfully.

I found a thread on the mail.python.org bulletin board that discussed
"a troubling math bug under IRIX 6.5" that seems similar to the
"p=0+1." problem I'm having.  The conclusion of this thread was that
upgrading the IRIX compiler to version 7.3.1.2m would solve the
problem.  We did just that, and are still getting a core dump unless
we compile these files with optimization turned off.

While I realize that there's not much a developer can do about a
compiler optimization problem, I'm mentioning it here for 3 reasons:
1) in case it helps other SGI python users to create a faster version
of python, 2) on the wee possibility that there is a solution to this,
and 3) I have dreams of kicking the optimization level up to "-O3"!

Thanks,

--Mary Haley
haley at ucar.edu




From ylee12 at uiuc.edu  Wed Aug 15 15:37:18 2001
From: ylee12 at uiuc.edu (Young-Jin Lee)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:37:18 -0700
Subject: [Q] Python and math
Message-ID: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi, I'm wondering if there's a open source python code for solving ODE
(ordinary differential equations)?
I want to convert my Java application into Python, but I'm not sure if there
is a ODE solver written and available in Python.

Thanks in advance.

Young-Jin




From gmcm at hypernet.com  Wed Aug  1 18:28:27 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 22:28:27 GMT
Subject: importing win32com.client.Dispatch with embedded interpreter
References: <fab90324.0107311204.2fffbfa4@posting.google.com> <Xns90EFBFDF131D1gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154> <fab90324.0108010837.39c3cb70@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F0BC0071A9Fgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155>

Mike Haspert wrote: 

> When I saw this in the help (1.4 Embedding Python), I assumed I'd be
> OK as long as I matched each call to Py_Initialize() with a call to
> Py_Finalize();

[elided]

Yes, that's certainly what it seems to say. This is new, however,
and since completely reclaiming Python is a difficult task, it's 
likely you've exposed a bug.
 
> Adding a call to Py_IsInitialized() before each Py_Initialize()
> verifies that it is not initialized, yet my problem persists. Other
> modules import: For example, usecom.py doesn't throw an exception
> doing
>     import traceback,string,sys
> which is what I used to report the exception from trying to import
> win32com.  So we're back to my lack of understanding regarding the
> message:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "c:\scripts\usecom.py", line 4, in f1
>     from win32com.client import Dispatch
>   File "C:\Python21\win32com\__init__.py", line 95, in ?
>     SetupEnvironment()
> TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments

The error makes no sense that I can see, either.

It would probably have to be debugged at the C level,
and that's not an easy task.
 
> I was hoping to embed Python as a scripting language in a significant
> automated-test-equipment app, but without the ability to stop/restart
> the interpreter at will, I'm out of luck.

Unless a module does something stupid, like hold 
transient state in module globals, you don't need
to stop/restart the interpreter. I'm 99.9% sure that
win32com.* doesn't do that.

If some module *does* do that, you can use

import module
reload(module)

to ensure that state is "fresh" (just make sure
you haven't used "from module import ....", or
you'll have to pull the names out of module yourself
after the reload).

So I don't think you should regard this as a 
showstopper. People have been embedding Python in
long running apps for ages, long before the rule of
"only one Py_Initialize / Py_Finalize per run" was
changed.
 
- Gordon


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 11:22:28 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:22:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FEA401A2357duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Rob Andrews <rob at jam.rr.com> wrote in news:3B7A87D8.6F75B13F at jam.rr.com:

> I just posted this to the Python Tutor list, so please forgive the
> cross-posting. I'm just academically curious about this.
> 
> *Learning Python* (pp. 99-105) points out that declaring globals from
> within functions is possible, and shows how. I'm trying to think of
> *why* one might want to declare or modify a global from within a
> function.
You are confused over what the 'global' keyword actually does.

Most languages, as you say, require you to declare global variables outside 
functions. Most languages also require you to declare variables. Python 
does not require you to declare any variables anywhere (even global ones), 
instead you just assign to them.

The 'global' keyword doesn't create a new global variable. All it does is 
to force references to that name, within that local scope, refer to a 
global variable. If you assign to the variable declared as global then you 
will update its value. If you reference the variable then you get its value 
if it exists, or you get an exception if it doesn't exist.

In other words the 'global' keyword is a purely local declaration that says 
you want to refer to a global variable. Without the global keyword you can 
still get the value of a global variable, but you cannot set the variable.

> 
> A friend who knows quite a bit more than I do about the subject said:
> "That's the first thing about python I've seen that really makes me go
> "yecchhh.".  Global variables have to be declared outside the scope of
> any functions or methods in almost every langauge except Perl."
Yes, but they may be assigned to or modified from inside functions in 
almost every language. Python is no different here, the only difference 
being that in Python you have to make it explicit that the variables you 
are modifying are global whereas most other languages do it implicitly.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From scott at randomchaos.com  Thu Aug  9 21:58:40 2001
From: scott at randomchaos.com (Scott Reynen)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 18:58:40 -0700
Subject: Manila Theme Format
Message-ID: <6e98614f.0108091758.353b5ce1@posting.google.com>

forgive me (and please point me to somewhere better) if this is not a
good place to be asking this, but this is the only group i've been
able to find with any references to userland's manila. so my question
is this:

does anyone have any information, or can anyone point me to any
information, about the format of manila theme files? i've been assured
by dave winer himself that it is an open and documented format, but
i've been able to find absolutely no documentation about it.

thanks a lot,
scott.


From eli at udel.edu  Mon Aug 27 09:57:05 2001
From: eli at udel.edu (eli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:57:05 GMT
Subject: os.execl()
Message-ID: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>

Hello,

	I have a question about the ececl function from the os module. I was
trying to write a script to untar a bunch of tarballs in a directory. The
script looked like this

#!/usr/bin/env python

import os

os.system("ls *.gz > data_file")

tar_file = open("data_file"), "r")

tar_array = tar_file.readlines()

for tarball in tar_array:
	os.execl("tar", "xzvf", tarball)

os.system("rm data_file")




I was getting errors from the xzvf argument of tar during the first
evecution of the loop. I'm pretty new to python so I don't knwo where to
go from here. I would appreciate any help that you could give me. 

																	Thanks,
																			eli


From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug  5 16:03:39 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:03:39 GMT
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <fg7jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <3b6d9dfb.59610976@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:34:55 +0200, gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=) wrote:

>On 4 Aug 2001 21:41:11 -0700, Lang <bob at tharin.com> wrote:
>>Any cgi/web person out there,
>>
>>I wrote a couple cgi scripts that I use to manage a database.  When I
>>send changes through a form, it calls a script that makes the database
>>commit.  Once it is done with the commit, it prints out a return
>>button (that's all that shows up on the page) which needs to be pushed
>>to return to the main page.  How do I call the script, run the commit,
>>and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?
>
>The solution Roman proposed works, but the following is technically better :-)
>It uses features of the HTTP protocol instead.
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
>print "Status-Code: 301"                        # Moved permanently
I think he might want 302 instead (moved temporarily). He will likely want
to be able to come back and do the form again ;-)

>print "Location: http://www.rfceditor.org/"     # New location
>print ""                                        # Newline ends HTTP header
>
>>I think that this is pretty basic, but I can't find an answer. 
>
>This and more useful information can be found in RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1).
>http://www.rfceditor.org feature a searchable RFC index, for example.



From Dag at animagicnet.no  Tue Aug  7 16:24:39 2001
From: Dag at animagicnet.no (Dag)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 20:24:39 GMT
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n0jcj.942.Dag@Omally.animagicnet.no>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:40:30 +0200, Michael Briel <kruge at gmx.de> wrote:
>Hi there!
>
>I'm generally interested in Python - can anybode point me to either a book
>or a page that teaches you from the beginning how to use this language? I
>generally know how to program computers, but I haven't done it in ages, so
>it better be "for Dummies"... ;o)

Personally I'd recomend 'The Quick Python Book' by Harms and McDonald.
It tok me from someone who had hacked a bit of perl and BASIC quite a
while ago, to someone who programs fairly large things in Python very
quickly.   Covers both basic and fairly advanced topics from both a Unix
and Windows perspective.  It also makes a quite useful reference book.

Dag


From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Thu Aug  9 19:30:13 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 16:30:13 -0700
Subject: One yahoo's view
Message-ID: <i676ntg62akjess1vdhr4dltkq4jg3j2vl@4ax.com>

The Yahoo mirror/interface to comp.lang.python says
about this "group":

Group Info  
Members: 436 
Founded: Dec 31, 1969 
Language: English 

Go figure.

Kirby



From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Thu Aug 23 14:26:15 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:26:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
In-Reply-To: <Xw9h7.10076$x84.2967046@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231220050.17279-100000@bms>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Chris Farley wrote:

> I would like to develop an opensource cross-platform GUI application
> in PyQt. I would like to distribute a Windows version of the application
> bundled with all the .DLLs needed to run the program, including the Qt
> library. Is it legal to do this? Here's part of the license that is
> giving me headaches.
>
>   * You may copy and distribute the Software in unmodified form
>   provided that the entire package, including - but not restricted
>   to - copyright, trademark notices and disclaimers, as released
>   by the initial developer of the Software, is distributed.
>
> Does this mean I can't distribute just the .DLL, and that I need to
> distribute the entire non-commercial version of Qt? Ack!

You should be able to handle it the same way GPLed software
distributors do... make separate binary and source packages, have both
available so your users can get to the source they want it.

Of course, TrollTech are really the ones to ask.


- Bruce




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 23:23:29 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:23:29 -0400
Subject: line continuations with backslash
In-Reply-To: <7xk7zslvx1.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEOILHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> Is there a particular reason in Python why you can't continue a line with
> a backslash in the middle of a literal, like in C?

Beats me; AFAIK it's the first time it's ever been asked, and the decision
is too old to channel the spirit of a much younger Guido.

> For what I'm doing it would be useful to be able to split a numeric
> literal like this:
>
> a = 123\
> 456\
> 789L
>
> The actual numbers I want to use are a few hundred digits, so
> splitting them across several lines would be nice.
>
> Is there another way to do this?  I guess I could enter
>
> a = long("123"+
>   "456"+
>   "789")

You don't need the "+" signs there; as in C, adjacent string literals are
catenated at compile-time.

I'd probably do something like

def s2long(s):
    return long(''.join(s.split()))

x = s2long("""
    123
    456
    789""")

-- or learn how to use the horizontal scroll bar in my editor <wink>.

> but that does an extra runtime conversation instead of just
> compiling the literal into the .pyc file.

Yup, and the way I'd do it costs even more, but I can't picture myself doing
this outside one-shot module initialization code, so wouldn't care how long
it takes.

god-forbid-michael-tells-you-about-bytecodehacks-ly y'rs  - tim




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 05:28:39 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 11:28:39 +0200
Subject: problem with os.path.walk
References: <3B728339.D91B7423@SoftHome.net>
Message-ID: <j4u1zfc5dk.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jiba <a11w at SoftHome.net> writes:

> what about walking in the subdirectories BEFORE walking in the top
> directory :

Good point. Of course, changing it may break backwards-compatibility
with code that expects to do the directory first, then subdirectories.

Please note that you can easily work around this problem: Inside the
callback function, you can remove the file names from the list if you
remove the files from the disk. Actually, some people may do that
already, which would cause an even bigger compatibility problem
(you'll note that you could also add directories to the list, which it
would then traverse into).

Please have a look at the walk documentation, at

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.path.html

it explicitly mentions the option of modifying the names list.

Regards,
Martin


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 07:58:57 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 07:58:57 -0400
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <aO9c7.5704$qm1.49451@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Piotr Legiecki" <piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl> wrote in message
news:9kqvaa$tbl$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl...
> Hi
>
> I'v created dictionary named d={}. Its structure is like this:
>
> {key, [list]}
>
> I'd like to print all values stored in  'd'. What is the easiest way to do
> it?

Well, of course,

    print d

will do it! I imagine you are looking for something more elaborate? You can
return the keys, the values, or the (key, value) item pairs from a
dictionary with its methods d.keys(), d.values() and d.items().

So another way would be ...

for k, v in d.items():
    print k, ":", ", ".join(v)

which actually won't give you anything too much different!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug 29 13:27:10 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:27:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Charlton Heston on Python [was: Hello people. I have some questions]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290626300.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108291323402.4144-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> DAMN you! DAMN you to HELL!!! :P
> 
> ;)

Were you quoting Charlton Heston the man or Charlton Heston the ape ? 

( BTW: We need to sign up a few chimps for CP4E, so it won't appear
  to be specieist! ) 

-- Steve 





From sheila at spamcop.net  Fri Aug 17 00:29:03 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:29:03 GMT
Subject: sockets broken on New Install???
References: <shpnnto9suuk1smhikbloappjapn3rqjg6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <i87pntofvh616rv3qs2kd2u7s1rg6g8mdb@4ax.com>

Well, I have managed to get a working install, although I couldn't get
the SSL option to work for the sockets.

For completeness, I refer anyone interested to the following links where
the problem and solution are discussed in more detail:
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8972

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2001-August/008052.html

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:37:11 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<shpnnto9suuk1smhikbloappjapn3rqjg6 at 4ax.com>:

:OK, so I *thought* I'd upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1.1. I have Linux host with
:shell account for my web site. I find my way around Linux with
:difficulty. (I'm really a Windows person <hangs head in shame>.)
:
:So, I got Python-2.1.1.tgz on my site, unzipped it, and went to the top
:directory and types:
:
:./configure --prefix=/big/dom/xthinkspot
:
:(that's the path to my top level directory)
:
:And that looked fine.
:
:Then I typed:
:make install
:
:and a bunch of stuff happened. And I now have a python2.1* executable in
:the /big/dom/xthinkspot/bin 
:directory. And the python* points to it. (Fortunately, my python2.0* is
:still there, unaffected and functioning.)
:
:And all the Lib modules seem to have been copied to
:/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/*
:
:BUT when I ran the make test, I got error messages that indicate
:something is seriously wrong.
:
:119 tests OK.
:4 tests failed: test___all__ test_asynchat test_socket test_sundry
:16 tests skipped: test_al test_cd test_cl test_dl test_gl test_imgfile
:test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_minidom test_nis test_pyexpat
:test_sax test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_winreg test_winsound
:make: *** [test] Error 1
:
:Having sockets not work is a real problem.
:
:I brought up the 2.1.1 interpreter for an interactive session. I could
:import several different modules, such as os and string, but when I
:tried to import smtplib I get this error message:
:
:>>> import smtplib
:Traceback (most recent call last):
:  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
:  File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/smtplib.py", line 42, in ?
:    import socket
:  File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
:    from _socket import *
:ImportError: /big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so:
:undefined
: symbol: ERR_load_RSAREF_strings
:
:We just had a system upgrade last night. Went from an earlier Red Hat
:Linux to RH 6.2 and glibc went from glibc-2.0.7 to glibc-2.1.3, but I
:don't see why this should matter, since I'm recompiling and relinking
:from scratch?
:
:Please, help?



From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Fri Aug 17 09:04:02 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:04:02 +0200
Subject: SRE_match.__getitem__?
Message-ID: <9lj4o2$fb$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

I just wondered... Would it be useful to add __getitem__
to the match objects returned by re, so one could do
things like:

>>> m = re.match('f(oo)', 'foobar')
>>> m[0]
'foo'
>>> m[1]
'oo'

I guess it would only be something like

   def __getitem__(self, number):
       return self.group(numnber)

(Only in C, and with some exception translation or
something.)

Maybe it's worthless -- it just seems practical to me.

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 11:30:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:30:33 +0200
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <8afvmt8ck86d7ug5clnu3h0qek4hb7ope0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kp1io023pn@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tom Robinson" <tom at alkali.spamfree.org> wrote in message
news:8afvmt8ck86d7ug5clnu3h0qek4hb7ope0 at 4ax.com...
    ...
> >> need that might be unique to Ruby?  [One that comes to mind: the
ability
> >> to extend an existing class.]  For the
> >
> >In what sense is this "unique to Ruby"?  The following works in Python:
    ...
> He might be talking about the way you can reopen and extend existing
> _built_in_ classes in Ruby, for example:

Ah, I see -- Python's classes aren't divided between builtin and
not-builtin (they all work the same way), but there's a distinction
between classes and *types* (which is slowly and gradually being
removed) -- types cannot be manipulated as freely as classes.

> class Regexp
>   alias oldcomp =~
>   def =~ (astring)
>      match(astring)[1..9]
>   end
> end
>
> ...Regexp being part of the standard library.  Can you do this in
> Python?  It would be nice...

Python's re module offers factories for re-object that are
instance of types, not of classes -- therefore, in Python's
current version, no such manipulation is possible.  The
current Pythonic solution is to wrap type instances into
class instances (see my recipe
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52295
to see how auto-delegation replaces inheritance for this
kind of purposes), whereupon all manipulation becomes
possible (and easy).  Of course, the module itself would
be replaced with one that wraps it and supplies factory
functions returning the wrapped-objects directly (using
techniques close to the one I show in my popular recipe
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207).

But this doesn't retroactively affect type-instances that
were created *before* the wrapping, so it's not fully
equivalent to what one can do starting in Python 2.2
(which introduces type->class inheritance and a few other
such enhancements -- definitely a start on the road of
type/class equivalence).  In particular, such polymorphic
'tricks', just like about any kind of polymorphism, are
defeated by the accursed practice of type-testing (I
recommend some alternatives in my recipe
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52291).


Alex





From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 12 21:23:39 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:23:39 -0700
Subject: Bug in shutil.rmtree?
References: <5a140c6d.0108111506.522111a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <psaent0ord9uipg7830qs7a04319r6aota@4ax.com>

foobarickknob at yahoo.com (Scott Taylor) wrote:

>I'm using shutil.rmtree on W2K, and the way it's acting doesn't seem
>to jive w/ the docs.  Isn't the second param to rmtree supposed to
>ignore any errors if it runs across any?
>
>shutil.rmtree( 'c:\\foobartest', 1 ) gives me this exception...
>
>WindowsError: [Errno 3] The system cannot find the path specified:
>'foobartest'
>
>... if c:\\foobartest doesn't exist.  Shouldn't I not get an exception
>if the second param is true?

Interesting.  The "ignore_errors" parameter ignores any errors that occur
once removing begins.  It doesn't ignore errors while it is building the
list of removal commands, and that's where this error occurs.

Tough call.  I would have to agree that the behavior doesn't match the doc.
It'd be easy to add protection for this.  I'll have to let others wiser
than me decide whether it makes sense to add it.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 04:39:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:39:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How can i install python-mode in a emacs-editor ?
In-Reply-To: <3B8A02B6.16B33968@gmx.at>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270438180.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, martin zohlhuber wrote:

> What must i do, that i have a colored programming editor for python
> under linux ?

Well, you could always use vim ;)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From anamax at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  9 22:12:12 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 19:12:12 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<9kpdm3$hhk$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
> Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
> | BTW - I would like to see an application that doesn't have significant
> | hotspots.  I doubt that there are very many.
> 
> That's only one of the issues, though.  No doubt you can identify
> a hotspot or two, depending on your criteria for significance.
> You still have to ask whether it's worthwhile to write an extension -
> maybe it would be not much harder to just write the whole thing in
> a faster language.

Let's do the arithmetic.

Pythoneers typically claim a 10x productivity advantage.  From my (brief)
experience, I'd say that 10x is conservative, but let's use 5x instead.

Hotspots are typically 5-10% of the code, but let's use 20%.

Suppose that writing the "all C from the beginning" version takes 10 time
units.

With the above assumptions, the all-python version will take 2.  But, we
still need to write the 20% in C.  Let's assume that the experience with
python for that 20% doesn't help us write the C extension, so writing
that takes 2 time units, just as it did in the "all C" version.

Now, I haven't accounted for the time to find that 20%, but I'm
ahead 4 to 10, so I'm somewhat skeptical that it would be generally
faster to have written it in C from the beginning.

> I have tried the "write C after first writing in Python" route, when
> an application was too big and slow.  It was a small application (but
> one that is run often), and I'm not sure the Python version saved me

Hmm, the application was "too big" and yet "small"....

I find that I don't get much benefit from power tools when I'm doing
"small" things.  To put it another way, "hello world" doesn't demonstrate
the differences between a langage which is good for programming in the
small and one which is good for programming in the large.

> The moral is not that you should be using C instead, but that
> Python should be faster.

At what cost?  Be explicit - what would you change, and what would the
other side effects of those changes be?

> I think it's questionable how relevant Moore's law is here.  Interpreted
> languages have been around pretty much all along, and all along have
> presented the same kind of tradeoffs.

Interpreted or not isn't really the issue.  (FWIW, it is possible to
compile python bytecodes.  However, it isn't clear that such compilation
would make a significant difference.  Hmm - I shouldn't be so quick to
assume that.  And, I shouldn't concede much on the question of compile-time
dispatch determination, which is the only performance benefit of static
typing.)  The issue is ease of programming vs raw performance.

20 years ago, it was just becoming reasonable to write a WYSIWYG editor
in a scripting language, and then only if you had a fairly impressive
(for the time) computer, and it was quite expensive.  (And yet, at least
one of the most sophisticated text editors of that time was written in
an interpreted language.)  Today, it's hard to buy a $1000 computer that
can't run a such an editor acceptably fast.

Moore's law is taking care of applications that were slow because of
constant factors, such as the difference between scripting languages
and programming bare metal.  There are constant factor problems where
the constant factor is still too big, but every year there are fewer
of them.

Yes, there are quadratic, cubic, and worse problems.  And, if you're
lucky, a 10x speedup will let you handle a large enough N.  If the C
version is 10x as fast, but the problem is quadratic, you only get to
solve a version that is square-root(10) as large.  For cubic, the
the problem size increase is the cube root, and for exponential....

> still expensive.  Moore's law is another symptom of denial, "your
> program isn't really slow - just wait, it will be fast someday!"

Hmm.  Let's look at what this "moore's law denial" has gotten us.
3D games.  OCR.  Sound, photo and movie editing.  Sound, image, and
movie generation.  Digital control of mechanical things in general.
Primitive voice recognition.

Computers are "fast enough" for those applications, and they weren't
before.  Every year, more and more things become possible, because
newer computers tend to be faster for the same $.  Yet, recognizing
that fact is "denial".  Curious.

If it will take you 12 months to write a given application in C but
a Python implementation is 50% too slow today, well, you can do
the arithmetic.  By the time that C version is ready, a Pythoneer
will have delivered 3 applications that are all "fast enough" AND
had a nice long vacation.

My biggest objection to Python is that I don't know how to easily
integrate it from the bottom, as a python extension to a C program,
and I suspect that that's my ignorance.

-andy




  Twenty years ago our basement


Or, are you arguing that python-as-is could be faster
so someone should flog guido?
  When I want a more efficient solution,
> 



> | Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message news:<psoitg1md4l.fsf at jekyll.curl.com>...
> |> anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:
> |>| Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
> |>| improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
> |>| consideration.
> |> 
> |> It could be pretty expensive to move all of your code to a faster language if
> |> you discover that Python is not good enough.  Sometimes you can write C
> |> extensions for the slow parts, but in some cases you will have to start over.
> |
> | If experience is much of a guide, writing first in python and then
> | in C tends to be cheaper/faster than writing in C from the beginning.
> | Heck, writing in C then writing in C is often cheaper than writing in C.
> |
> | BTW - I would like to see an application that doesn't have significant
> | hotspots.  I doubt that there are very many.
> 
> That's only one of the issues, though.  No doubt you can identify
> a hotspot or two, depending on your criteria for significance.
> You still have to ask whether it's worthwhile to write an extension -
> maybe it would be not much harder to just write the whole thing in
> a faster language.
> 
> I have tried the "write C after first writing in Python" route, when
> an application was too big and slow.  It was a small application (but
> one that is run often), and I'm not sure the Python version saved me
> any great amount of time - C's storage is so different from Python's
> that you can't just add curly braces, you have to rethink the architecture
> at a fairly basic level to accommodate C.
> 
> There are lots of cases to the contrary, and in general partial or
> full migration to C is an important option for various reasons.
> 
> But it isn't a good enough option to make Python's performance
> unimportant.  When it's too slow, fixing that can waste a lot of
> time, and that bites the programmer who decided to use Python,
> and the organization that went along with that programmer, etc.
> The moral is not that you should be using C instead, but that
> Python should be faster.  When I want a more efficient solution,
> I don't want to hear that I have to go to C, I want to know what
> language has what I need, including efficient execution.
> 
> I think it's questionable how relevant Moore's law is here.  Interpreted
> languages have been around pretty much all along, and all along have
> presented the same kind of tradeoffs.  Twenty years ago our basement
> was full of one or two computers, with computing power embarrassingly
> surpassed by a common PC clone today.  Today, our basement is still
> full of computers - hundreds of much faster computers - and they're
> still expensive.  Moore's law is another symptom of denial, "your
> program isn't really slow - just wait, it will be fast someday!"
> 
> 	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From kern at myrddin.caltech.edu  Fri Aug  3 21:32:59 2001
From: kern at myrddin.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 01:32:59 GMT
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <9kfjcb$k5h@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

In article <jt1ymtngpk.fsf at wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>,
	William Annis <annis at biostat.wisc.edu> writes:
> 
>         I've been a Unix system adminstrator for about 7 years now,
> longer if you count my student admin jobs.  With a few, brief
> exceptions, I have always worked places with small computing budgets.
> We can't afford sexy system management packages which can sometimes
> cost in the US$100,000s.  I mean things like Tivoli, CA Unicenter,
> Bull's OpenMaster, etc.

For a summer I worked for a contractor doing a pilot Tivoli rollout. Reading the
docs and personally being subjected to the horror of setting up Tivoli (they're
still on the pilot a year later and still going through several expensive Tivoli
consultants), I came to the conclusion that there was almost nothing in Tivoli
that could not be done better with free (libre or gratis) software and Python as
the glue.

Tivoli is really just a bunch of management programs that Tivoli, Inc. (and
later IBM) put together under the "Tivoli Management Framework" (and the seams
show rather prominently, IMO). At the core is an object database written in
Java (I kept thinking to myself, "ZODB, ZODB, ZODB!"). Almost all of the site configuration files ("policies" in Tivoli-speak) were actually perl and korn 
shell scripts <shudder>.

The ZODB might not be optimal in write-often situations, but a lot of the
framework's functionality only needs write-rarely/read-often performance. For
write-often applications (say, realtime network event monitoring, like what the
Tivoli Enterprise Console (TEC) does), you can outsource to a dedicated
database, which is precisely what the TEC does.

I really do think that a Python Management Framework has a damn good chance of
becoming a lot better (and a helluva lot cheaper, price and maintenance-wise!)
than Tivoli.

Of course, I don't have any experience with the other products you mentioned,
and I'm rather bitter about Tivoli...

does-it-show?-ly y'rs

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter


From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Sun Aug 19 18:40:11 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:40:11 +0100
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net> <7x1ym8jyuk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lo5ub1g3p@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o0g2b.1ul.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Alex Martelli wrote:

[someone else:]
> > in portable C.  Python's arithmetic is around 100x faster than
> > perl's Math::BigInt.
[Alex:]
> Interesting -- I guess (and hope, because competition is what
> keeps everybody on their toes:-) that some devoted Perlist is
> already busy recoding their big-int module for performance?-)

A few weeks ago there was a discussion about benchmarking,
in which I mentioned that Python's longs are far faster than
Perl's Math::BigInt. Someone mailed me to say that recent
versions of Perl let you choose between several implementations
of Math::BigInt, including one based on gmp. That 100x difference
may be out of date...

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 16:13:31 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:13:31 -0400
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
In-Reply-To: <3b8a7483.604933858@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEFILIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bengt Richter]
> It wouldn't be that hard to gin up a little stand-alone .exe to do
> what md5sum.py does.

[Tim]
> Thinking-cap time:  the problem doesn't come up at all unless
> they're having trouble downloading .exe files.

[Bengt]
> 01-04-17  20:17  6,272,831 D:\Python\Python-2_1.exe   (my last download)
> 00-07-17  15:45     32,768 C:\UTIL\lsm.exe            (my ls md5 utility)
>
> if p() is probabability of download error for n bytes (even on
> the same day ;-),
> what is p(6,272,831):p(32,768) ?
>
> Not good enough odds? Or were you thinking of the subset of
> problems unaffected by byte length (yet perhaps checkable with a
>length number) ?

p is usually so close to 0 or 1 that you can't tell the difference, and is
the latter when they're managing to use a download method that
systematically corrupts LF bytes into CRLF pairs on Windows -- or vice
versa.  Both change length.

Keep the context in mind!  This is Windows, so that particular form of
download problem is depressingly common, and these are generally newbies.
"MD5" doesn't mean anything to them.  I've "dealt with" hundreds of these
reports.

If you want to make a standalone .exe available, that's great, and I'll
gladly refer non-newbies to it the next time there's a downloading problem
nobody can figure out (so please post a URL).  The length check almost
always settles it, though; switching to a different download method then
almost always solves it; and I never see such reports from non-Windows
downloaders.

the-conditional-probability-of-most-interest-is-the-one-intersecting-
    "newbie"-and-"windows"-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 16:10:42 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:10:42 +0200
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <mailman.997452856.7709.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <9l1f4n01e86@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Cris A. Fugate" <fugate at lucent.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000 at IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com...
> Hi, I am trying to port some Tcl stuff to Python. Its kind of disturbing
    ...
> BTW, I also noticed that python is rather weak in variable
> substitution. In Tcl I can say..
>
> set x 5; set y "x"
> expr $$y + 1
> =>6
>
> I cant do this in python without resorting to something like
> dictionaries..
>
> y={'x':'z', 'z':5}
> y.get(y.get('x')) + 1
> =>6

You can do hardly anything in Python without resorting to
dictionaries "under the covers" (dictionaries is where most
types keep their attributes -- modules, classes, etc), but
why is that a problem?  The exact equivalent of your Tcl
"$$y" in Python is "eval(y)" -- it's a HORRID idea to USE
it, of course, but, if you crave for it, it IS right there.

Your dictionary-based "solution" doesn't look very useful
to me, either.  What is this "extra level of indirectness"
actually BUYING you -- i.e. WHY are you using it, except
because of habits stemming from Tcl practice?  Anyway,
the normal Python syntax for the last expression you
write would be y[y['x']]+1.


Alex





From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 19 13:34:07 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:34:07 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3578381.rriASvYEEZ@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schrub:

>> Considering your proposed example, can you state with assurance
>> exactly what order things are done, including side effects?
> 
> Sure -- Python guarantees left-to-right behavior of this statement.
> First wower is called, then y.a is assigned, then b,c,d, then x.e, in
> this
> order.  But of course it wouldn't be wise to rely on this!-)

It is even guaranteed that b,c,d is assignet left to right.

That's at least what I read out of the doc, I haven't tested the 
implementation :-)

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Aug  8 07:41:10 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 13:41:10 +0200
Subject: Exception confusion
References: <mailman.997265112.4094.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4d766wzhl.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Martin Sj?gren <martin at strakt.com> writes:

> Doesn't this strike anybody as inconsequent?

Not at all. Just be aware that

I. catching an exception is an assignment to the exception variable.
   So if you write

      .... raise x

   except Y, z:

   then just before the except block, the assignment

   z = x

   happens.

II.Exceptions support tuple unpacking
>>> e = Exception(1,2)
>>> a,b=e
>>> a
1
>>> b
2
   [If you wonder how they do that: using __getitem__]

III. Raising an exception in the form klass,value is the same
     as raising it as klass(value)

> I wrote this little test script:
> 
> try: raise Exception, "foo"
> except Exception, arg: print type(arg)

  This really is

   arg = Exception("foo")

> try: raise Exception, "foo"
> except Exception, (arg,): print type(arg)

   (arg,) = Exception("foo")

which is tuple unpacking.

> try: raise Exception, ("foo", "bar"):
> except Exception, (arg,): print type(arg)
> 

  Tuple unpacking, namely

   (arg,) = Exception("foo", "bar")

  This fails, because the exception has two elements, but you want to
  unpack only a single one.

Hope this helps,
Martin


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 11:57:42 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:57:42 +0200
Subject: privacy in Python
References: <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mj3dp01m23@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Ens" <ens_z at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0 at posting.google.com...
> class cls:
> def f(self, a, b):
> print a+b
> __p=12
>
> obj=cls()
> fun=obj.f
> print fun.im_self._cls__p
>
> 12
>
> I need that '__p' exactly be private.

Private against what threats, what adversaries?  Python
can help you if the enemies are limited to supplying you
Python sources and bytecodes to be run -- see the rexec
module: you run the adversaries' sources and bytecodes
in a restricted-execution sandbox where they can be
constrained against damaging you -- in particular, the
Bastion module makes it a snap to selectively expose
attributes from any object you have to supply to the
adversaries (and restricted-execution cuts their ability
to introspect and worm-around your sandbox-restrictions,
*as long as* all your adversaries can do is give you
Python code to run).

But in many threat-scenarios, there is no reason to
expect the adversaries to be so limited -- if they can
intrude *machine-code* running with system-level
privileges on your machine (e.g., you're running
Win/2000 and IIS, and they exploit Code Red), then
there's nothing Python can do to protect you against
such a threat -- among all other horrible wastage the
adversaries can do to your whole network, they *WILL*
be able to get at __p (if they know it's there, and
how to reach for it).

Strong encryption may help *TO A POINT*, but you still
need some hypotheses about limits to the threat's
abilities to intrude.  If they get at your private
keys, with which you've encrypted everything, you're
toast again.

So, unless you can define some limits to the abilities
of your adversaries, neither Python nor any other
programming language can help you achieve your stated
objective of keeping __p invisible to enemies at all cost.


Alex





From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 10 09:29:31 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:29:31 -0500
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org> <tja0l9.ug.ln@haegar.fqdn.th-h.de>
Message-ID: <3B73E1BB.6825C31A@seebelow.org>

Michael Linnemann wrote:
> 
> Am Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400 Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> 
> >In expanded form:
> >
> >   def gen_sectors3():
> >       print 'Generating (Version 3)...',
> >       lst = []
> >       for i in xrange(65536):
> >           lst.append(chr(i & 0xFF))
> >       for i in xrange(65536):
> >           lst.append(chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF))
> >       print 'done'
> >       return ''.join(lst)
> 
> >I haven't benched it--or even run it--but this will probably even beat
> >'gen_sectors2()'.
> 
> But I did ;-)
> 
> And here is the result:
> 
>   Version 2: 0.006
>   Version 3: 1.005
>   Version 4: 0.054
> 
> I made a gen_sectors4 because V.2 was surprisingly slow:
> 
>     def gen_sectors4():
>        print 'Generating (Version 4)...',
>        s = []
>        forward = []
>        reverse = []
>        for i in xrange(256):
>            forward += [chr(i)]
>            reverse += [chr(255 - i)]

How about?:

             forward.append(chr(i))
             reverse.append(chr(i))

>        s += forward * 256
>        s += reverse * 256
>        print 'done'
>        return "".join(s)
> 
> This is Python2.0 on a Linux machine, only in case it matters...

Cool!  But that one also seems kindda slow compared to #2.  I wonder if
the lists were built using "append" (appending one element) rather than
"+=" (appending a list _containing_ one element).

there-are-obviously-many-"obvious"-ways-to-do-it-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 05:22:38 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:22:38 +0200
Subject: rexec questions
References: <mailman.997215701.1431.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kr0cu01vdh@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997215701.1431.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> getting malicious code. I read somewhere in some review on the Net that
> there need be hardcoded trust-based software execution model with
> well-defined bondaries what can do what.

As long as it's configurable...:-).

> rexec is very good model of it
> albeit inside Python world. Only network side is lacking...

Sorry, I don't agree: an untrusted code, by default in rexec,
is allowed to open ANY file for reading (and none for writing).

The 'none for writing' may be a bit too strict, but OK, on
some boxes that may be the only way to avoid a nasty program
filling up your disk (I'd rather be able to specify some
/tmp/sandbox path on which untrusted code can open files for
writing, with a quota of maximum size -- but that may be
impractical on some boxes, so a 'limited file-like object'
might be supplied by an overridden built-in open, etc).

But the 'all for reading' looks too wide to me -- untrusted
code might be able to get secrets from any file, and maybe
steganograph them into whatever kind of output it's doing,
so that some perp can get at them.  It's absolutely crucial
that openable files be restricted to specified paths, and
rexec by default doesn't provide this -- so you do have to
customize rexec by subclassing and overriding if you're
serious about not trusting untrusted code:-).

I agree (from what I recall, from back when I was writing
Java applets - it HAS been a long time!) that Java applet
security is TOO strict (e.g., no file reading at all --
that's erring on the side of caution).  But I do not agree
that rexec's only lack of easy, necessary customizability
is in its network operations.


Alex





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug 29 20:28:45 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:28:45 -0400
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com> <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uofoygzlu.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com (Terry Byrne) writes:

> I wanted to avoid the complications of varying drive mappings etc.
> when building the command lines for the batch file, so the CGI assumes
> the server's local drive structure for paths to exes and input files.
> Because of this assumption, I know, the batch file must run locally. I
> know a truly elegant solution would get the user's drive mapping (if
> exists) to create the proper commands, or maybe it would change drive
> mappings on-the-fly to a standard or something, assuming rights could
> be obtained to do so from the net admin group etc., but that seems too
> elaborate :-)... or maybe that would be easier than I suspect. If so,
> please advise.

BTW, as another approach you don't have to have drive mappings if you
want to permit the user to run the script locally but referenced from
the server's drive.  Just use UNC names for everything, and as long as
the user has the appropriate access to the server it should work fine.

That is, if your server is called, say SERVER, and the script is
written by the web page onto a share SCRIPTS on the server, then a
client could execute that script by just running
\\server\scripts\<scriptname>.  And inside your script you could just
use \\server\<share>\... references rather than drive letters.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 07:57:43 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:57:43 +0200
Subject: string, not re (was Re: Re and Me.)
References: <toevhkp1hlem92@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9mdcjo0208q@enews1.newsguy.com>

"epoch7" <epoch7 at nocharmailter.net> wrote in message
news:toevhkp1hlem92 at corp.supernews.com...
> This is day 2 of my programming expereience, so please bear with my
> newbie-ishness.
> I'm trying to search for a string inside a file.  The string will be

It's easier if you have the file's contents in memory, but that's easy
as long as it's not so huge as to overwhelm your RAM (so, some tens of
megabytes should be OK, but many hundreds of megabytes probably not):
    thestring = thefile.read()

Alternatively, look into the mmap module (on Windows and Unix-like
systems, only) to get a "memory mapping" of your file, so you can,
again, treat it basically like a big in-memory string (this works
for file sizes up to the space available in your *virtual* memory:
hundreds of megabytes will be OK, though gigabytes may start being
trouble, depending on your platforms).  mmap doesn't QUITE give you
a string (you don't get string methods, sigh...), but...

Anyway, I'll assume in the following that name thestring is bound
to one big string containing the whole file's contents.

> different
> but the characters marking its beginning and end are the same (url= and
&).
> I've spent all day and night just learning the ins and outs of python so

An excellent way to spend time:-).

> this is still a little beyond me.
> re.split() would return the values between just one pattern correct? So

Yep -- avoid module re at the start, unless you really can't do without
it; and often, like here, you can.

All you need is one method of string objects, and I quote from
the library manual (an indispensable friend!)...:

find(sub[, start[, end]])
    Return the lowest index in the string where substring sub
    is found, such that sub is contained in the range [start, end).
    Optional arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice
    notation. Return -1 if sub is not found.

So basically:

where = thestring.find('url=', start)

binds name 'where' to an integer that is the lowest index >= start
such that the substring of thestring starting there equals 'url=',
or -1 if there is no such index (no occurrence of the substring
'url=' within thestring[start:]).

You want all occurrences of strings bracketed between a starting
'url=' and an ending '&', so you need a loop.  You need a variable
to keep track of the 'start', too, of course -- and you know it
will have to begin as 0, and will be -1 when no more occurrences
are found.

So, putting this all together:

results = []        # empty list, at the beginning
start = 0           # start from the start of thestring
while start >= 0:
    start = thestring.find('url=', start)
    if start >= 0:
        start += 4     # skip string 'url=' itself
        end = thestring.find('&', start)
        if end < 0:    # no ending-'&', what now?
            # presumably means "all the rest of thestring"...?
            results.append(thestring[start:])
            start = -1 # nothing more to do
        else:          # found the ending
            results.append(thestring[start:end])
            start = end+1

Now you have in list results the substrings of interest,
i.e. those that were bracketed between a leading 'url='
and a trailing '&'.  Most of the complication comes from
the issue of "what if there IS no trailing & after the
last match for 'url='...?" -- if that's no issue for
you, this can be simplified a lot, e.g. to:

results = []        # empty list, at the beginning
start = 0           # start from the start of thestring
while 1:
    start = thestring.find('url=', start)
    if start<0: break
    start += 4      # skip string 'url=' itself
    end = thestring.find('&', start)
    if end<0: break # should never happen, but...
    results.append(thestring[start:end])
    start = end+1

the while 1:/break is a more natural way to code the
loop, and ignoring a match for 'url=' that is not
followed by any '&' much simpler than accounting
for it -- as you can notice, since there is now no
nesting.  Or you could use method .index() instead
of method .find(): it works the same, except that
when no substring is found, it raises a ValueError
exception rather than returning -1.  You can then
save the "if ...<0" tests in exchange for one try
statement:

results = []        # empty list, at the beginning
start = 0           # start from the start of thestring
try:
    while 1:
        start = 4+thestring.index('url=', start)
        end = thestring.index('&', start)
        results.append(thestring[start:end])
        start = end+1
except ValueError:
    pass

Since you save the "if start < 0" test, you can
now inline the "4+" part that's needed to skip
the leading occurrence of 'url=' itself on all
matches.  Or you could have the try inside the
while, rather than viceversa:

results = []        # empty list, at the beginning
start = 0           # start from the start of thestring
while 1:
    try:
        start = 4+thestring.index('url=', start)
        end = thestring.index('&', start)
        results.append(thestring[start:end])
        start = end+1
    except ValueError:
        break

depending on whatever looks clearer to you (I have
a small suspect that having the try outside may be
slightly faster, but, not having *measured*, I would
not dare hazard a guess -- clarity and simplicity
are MUCH more important than speed in most cases,
anyway -- optimize only after measuring and *IF* you
know you really have to make the code faster).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 10:58:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:58:50 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
news:pso66c9rpo8.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
    ...
> > What is a real world problem that would not have existed if Python had
> > strict compile-time checking, and how common is such a problem?
>
> Here is a real-world problem: a developer wants to use a language with
> compile-time type checking and rejects Python because it doesn't have it.

Why is this "a problem"?  Counterexample: a developer wants
to use a language with an 'e' in the language's name and rejects
Python because it has no 'e' in its name.  Should we therefore
rename Python to 'Pethon' to "solve this problem"?

Each developer or development organization can freely choose
whatever constraint he/she/it/they prefer regarding their
programming tools.  If this it a problem, it's *HIS* (her,
its, their) problem, not Python's.  It would be silly and
self-defeating if Python tried to match such constraints just
because they are posed as constraints.

If it's worth for Python to have an 'e' in its name, it must
be because using that letter has intrinsic value within the
logic of Python, so, you should be arguing about that
intrinsic value, not about "marketing" advantages that
may stem from having it, if you want to speak "real world".
Marketing, by definition, isn't about the real world - it's
about successfully projecting a fantasy in the minds of
people with deep-enough pockets to make you rich:-).


> Well, I actually used Python on a number of projects a couple of years ago
and
> did spend more time than I would have liked writing tests to detect type
> consistency.

Probably no more time than I spend cursing [expletive deleted]'s who
write type-tests.  They THINK they care if a isA b... I'd SO like to
rub their faces hard against all the collected works of General
Semanticists and make them foreswear the cursed "is of identity"!

"BEHAVES-LIKE-A" (i.e. IS_ADAPTABLE_TO_PROTOCOL) is what, at most,
one SHOULD be testing (if anything).  Alas, the protocol adaptation
PEP is languishing.  In 90 case of 100, though, "just try and catch
the exceptions if any" will do basically just as well.


> I found myself writing comments next to variables indicating
> their intended type.  I would much have preferred turning those comments
into
> actual type declarations.

I fully agree that executable, formalized code is VASTLY superior
in all ways to comments.  But the point is that one shouldn't be
asserting IS-A, even in comments, and that's what types ARE (as
opposed to protocols, aka interfaces: the confusion between the
two is, of course, rampant).


> I don't think that lack of static type declarations makes Python at all
messy.
> It is still an interesting and useful language.  I just think that it
would be
> better with the ability to use static typing when you want to.

I suspect that the loss of dynamic-ity needed to *ensure* the
'typing' was STATIC would totally kill Python, disfiguring it
beyond all recognition.  If a USEFUL compiler-recognizable
way to assert protocol-conformance existed, then theoretically
it could in SOME (but NOT all!) cases be hoisted up to compile
time (just like, e.g., in print 2+2, the addition COULD be
done at compile time -- although Python doesn't bother doing
so, there's no *theoretical* impediment to doing it).  Just
like you could do now with
    assert isinstance(foo, bar)
[except that you *SHOULDN'T*!] -- it's theoretically possible
(although NOT in all cases -- and in practice not done by
the Python compiler) to sometimes hoist such assertions up
to compiletime.

It's quite a different issue to dream about a way to assert
'anything that can ever be possibly bound to this variable
X must respect the following constraint' (it makes no
difference whether the constraint is isinstance, or if
it's something actually USEFUL).  Conceptually, that would
require the assert equivalent to be inserted at each point
where X *might* be rebound (which might then be hoisted up
to compile-time in some cases).  Seems awfully hard to me
in the general case.


Alex





From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Thu Aug 30 12:20:52 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:20:52 -0700
Subject: Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.
Message-ID: <9mk4du$eik$1@mail.cn99.com>

Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.




From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Fri Aug 17 17:13:54 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:13:54 -0700
Subject: ANN: PythonCard prototype release 0.4.1
References: <_mUe7.524$LI5.191023@news.uswest.net> <3B7D8191.37669573@astro.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7D8912.D29A32C0@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi Tom,

Tom Loredo wrote:

> Kevin Altis wrote:
>
> > PythonCard relies on wxPython, it will support the Macintosh once wxPython
> > has been ported to the Mac.
>
> What's the latest on when this might happen?  It was said to be "soon" a year
> and a half or two years ago; in the meantime I gave up checking on it.  Has
> there been significant progress lately?  I wish I could help make it happen,
> but part of why I'd like to see it happen is that I don't know all the gory
> Mac details it would take to *make* it happen!  8-)

Does gtk work OK on Mac OS X? It seems that I saw some screenshots with gimp. If
so, you can give wxGTK a try. I wouldn't, because it's hardly a native L&F for
Mac, but YMMV.

Alexander




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Aug 13 20:12:48 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 03:12:48 +0300
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
References: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <kuk8071ou7.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3B786F77.1F6B54EE at btinternet.com>, root
<t.scrace at btinternet.com> writes:

| Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
| per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
| I've run into a problem during installation.  My Linux (Linux PPC 2000)
| came packaged with Python 1.5.2 but I thought I'd upgrade to the latest
| version before I got started.  I unpacked the download and followed all
| the instructions in the README (./configure then make) and everything
| seemed to go fine.

you need to follow the instructions a little further along :)

(hint: look for the section titled "Installing".)

even then though your shell may find the python version that
came with your os first, depending on whether your installation prefix
binary directory is in the path before /usr/bin or not. so you
may have to adjust your shell search path. (it is in the $PATH
variable in bash.)

  -- erno



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Tue Aug 14 16:26:38 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:26:38 GMT
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
References: <kb6gnt49hb0n6il52hb9r4ab59dkpbtgpn@4ax.com> <slrn9ngrqn.2ij.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <114e7.30334$c8.9974672@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nj30d.4so.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Rainer Deyke <root at rainerdeyke.com> dijo:
> "Tim Hammerquist" <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote in message
> news:slrn9ngrqn.2ij.tim at vegeta.ath.cx...
> > Me parece que Kirby Urner <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> dijo:
> > >
> > > I notice the author of the Dive Into Python tutorial cautions
> > > that __init__ is not trully a class constructor, as by the time
> > > it's invoked, an instance already exists (hence the argument
> > > 'self', hence the fact that classes don't need an __init__
> > > method).
> >
> > I'm not sure what the author means, but:
> >
> > class A:
> >     def __init__(self, *args):
> >         # do stuff
> >
> > ... is roughly analogous to C++'s constructors, if you don't count C++'s
> > implicit passing of the object.
> 
> One important difference is that Python gives more control over the
> construction process.  For example, in C++ the constructors of all base
> classes are always called before the constructor body is entered.  A Python
> '__init__' method can choose if, when, and in what order the base class
> '__init__' methods should be called.

Good point.  There are times I appreciated C++'s automatic calling of
base constructors (eg, when the first line of every subclass's
__init__() is SuperClass.__init__(self) =), but it's one line of code in
exchange for the ability to decide for oneself what the interpreter
should do...and that's why I switched from Win32 in the first place: it
wouldn't do what I wanted it to. =)

Cheers!

-- 
Tell me -- How's your love life? Killed any girlfriends
recently?  Or sentenced any more of them to Hell?
    -- Desire to Morpheus, The Sandman


From Anders at Arnholm.nu  Tue Aug 14 07:34:08 2001
From: Anders at Arnholm.nu (Anders Arnholm)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:34:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <memo.20010805001356.60291L@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrn9ni35f.mpi.Anders@tika.arnholm.nu>

Tim Rowe <digitig at cix.co.uk> skriver:
> If min is a function and b is an alias for a then it is incremented twice 
> and returned. Probably a bug.
> If min is a preprocessor macro and b is an alias for a then it is 
> incremented twice, returned, then incremented again. Sheesh!

In short, preprocessor macros are dangerous. Still I haven't  found out how cpp
works with python. But I'll get there and then there are ALOOT of dangeros
constructs.

/ Balp
-- 
http://anders.arnholm.nu/			     Keep on Balping


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 31 20:55:15 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:55:15 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com> <cp3d6ap71x.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <8a12e538.0108301457.706645ef@posting.google.com> <9mntls02l31@enews2.newsguy.com> <8a12e538.0108311035.70c504c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B9031F3.47A913BD@ActiveState.com>

Russell Turpin wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> Now .. what about mutability? An int is immutable. But
> a type derived from int is mutable. At least in its
> attributes. But its default (core? base? what is the
> right term?) value is still immutable. So mutability
> is really a quality of the core/base/whatever value,
> rather than of the type itself.

I would say that the instance of the integer subtype is mutable but its
value as an integer is not changeable. I expect it would still be
hashable unless you override its __hash__.
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From guido at python.org  Wed Aug 22 04:45:49 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:45:49 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <h2k1otcpuii2411unfhathotf4tphs5agg@4ax.com> <2ll1otchh6hqsce0gi5kvrg7hj8ash6hj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cpvgjgcwnh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Paul Moore <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com> writes:

> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:00:37 +0200, Paul Moore <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >So I looked through PEP 252 looking for a simple summary of how to add
> >"subclassability" to an existing C type. I could find nothing.
> 
> Doh. If I'd looked in PEP 253, I'd have seen it. Looks fairly messy,
> though...

That's C extensions for ya...

> Maybe a simple example would help. (I assume a simple example is possible -
> otherwise, I don't imagine that many 3rd party extension types will end up
> supporting this...)

The simplest example at the moment is probably the list type...

I'll try to add a working example to Modules/xxsubtype.c (which
already shows how to subclass in C, but not really what to do to
create a subclassable type).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From jessefw at loop.com  Mon Aug 27 23:14:05 2001
From: jessefw at loop.com (Jesse F. W)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:14:05 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <slrn9olm3i.p3v.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <3B8AAA0D.934.194B71A3@localhost>

Dear Billy,
	Thank you again; this discussion is really making XP and 
related subjects much clearer to me.  Thank you.
William Tanksley wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:26:34 -0700, Jesse W wrote:
> >Ok.  This still seems somewhat excessive to me, but I'll let it go
> >for now.
> 
> If it looks excessive to you, it's definitely wrong for what you're
> doing. You shouldn't violate the law of Demeter, but you can find a
> solution which doesn't appear excessive to you and which doesn't
> violate the law. One of the main tenets of extreme programming is that
> programming should be fun; if the design of your program is making you
> uncomfortable it's a bad design.
I like that view! :-) 
<snip>

> >	The game I am making is a card game representing a auto 
> >race.  The battle part of the above line refers to the top card in a
> >pile of cards called the battle pile(hence the name).  All cards have
> >a attribute called kind which represents(and I know this is
> >confusing, and should be refactored) the general type of the card. In
> >your terms, the method should be called
> >"CurrentPlayerHasAStopTypeCardOnTopOfTheirBattlePile".  (Ooh, that
> >looks sort of like I am being sarcastic.  Since this is email, I will
> > specifically say, I do not mean to be.)
> 
<snip> 
> >> >I don't see how the method could work if there was no 
> >> >current player object.
> 
> >> The existance of a 'currentPlayer' wouldn't matter to this object
> >> if theGame had a method to answer this important question.  In
> >> order for me to write this code, though, I have to know what it
> >> means to theGame when the current player is stopped.
> >I don't think it would mean anything to the game if the current
> >player was stopped.  The current player could play different cards,
> >but I don't think the game would care.
> 
> Okay.  If the game doesn't care about whether the current player is
> stopped, then nothing above the level of the game should ever care.
> (Since the game is the only thing that knows about the current
> player.)
> 
> >By the way, I use the self.app object mainly as a central storehouse
> >of links to the various subparts of the total program.  The app
> >object does not really know or do much.
> 
> Ah.  I would consider the app object unworthy of existance, then. 
> Every object should have a meaning of its own.  However, if you
> absolutely cannot find a way to give it a meaning, you must violate
> the law of demeter every time you use it.
How do I connect the various parts of my program, then? (I will say 
more about this below)
> >> I can rewite some code right now, though:
> >> class Player:
> >>   def isStopped():
> >>     return self.battle.kind == 'stop'
> >> Now we can reasonably talk about a player being stopped -- players
> >> can tell you whether or not they're stopped.
> 
> >I was going to write here, "I really don't understand what this
> >changes", but just as I was writing it, I understood.  It adds a
> >level of abstraction, allowing the name battle to be changed, and
> >even the name kind or its value, could be set to something else.
> 
> Yes, that's a good insight.  It also allows the code to look like our
> speech.  You mentioned to me that the current player was stopped; to
> me, that indicates that you picture a player as being able to be
> stopped. From this it's natural to give players the ability to tell
> whether they're stopped.
Ok; that makes sense.
<snip>

> I understand now that every player has a number of decks, and one of
> them is the battle deck.  Yes, I've played this game before :-). 
Glad you have played the game.  By the way, the code as it is now 
is available on my website if you want to look it over.  See my last 
message in this thread for the address.
> Given that, I think my implementation of isStopped is sufficient, and
> doesn't violate the law of demeter.
Ok.
<snip>
> 
> >> 3.  Test ALL of the properties of the object which will be used by
> >> any other object. If a property hasn't been tested, don't ever use
> >> it; if you're about to use a property in a manner which hasn't been
> >> tested, write a test for that property and add that test to the
> >> object's unit tests.
> 
> >Ok; but how to you "test the properties" without testing the
> >implemented?
> 
> Let's look at one of the properties of a Player in your game.  I just
> decided that "isStopped" would make a good property.  Now, in order to
> write a test I have to create a player, put him into a non-stopped
> mode, check that isStopped isn't true, and then put him into a stopped
> mode. Probably the best way to do this is to force the Player to play
> a Go, then play a Stop onto his battle stack (typical in Mille
> Bournes), then have him play another Go.
Yes, this is making a lot of sense.
> Note that I'm speaking in terms of the Player object; it sees the
> world in terms of a complete set of game rules.  When I play a Stop
> against him, the Player *knows* that it goes on his battle deck;
> nothing else needs to know about the existance of the battle deck.  In
> fact, you may not actually use a real deck (that is, a complete
> history of all cards); you might simply use a 'stopped' state and a
> most-recently-played card.  Oh, and a speed limit.  The point is that
> only the Player needs to know how he's keeping track of those details.
Right.  Actually, the battle variable does just represent the top card.

	Now, thinking about your suggestions about the existence of the 
app(lication) object, I searched through my Player class for uses of 
the app object. I found I mainly used the app object to:
	* access basic data(e.g. the number of cards in a hand, the 
number of miles necessary to win, etc.)
	* tell the graphics object to do various things
	* ask the game object for various things
I had to use the app object for this because it included references to 
the player objects, the game object and the graphics object.  
Without the app object, I don't know how I would do these things.
	There were also some changes I thought I should make after 
learning about the LofD, etc.  I wanted to change the code for 
drawing a card to use a method of the game, instead of just 
accessing the deck list, and I wanted to have another game method 
to answer the question, whoIsShutout used when calculating scores.
	How would I do the above tasks without a app object?  I just now 
realized another reason for all the methods.  They allow fake testing 
methods to be simpler and easier to program, because they only 
need to fake answers to questions, or sometimes provide objects, 
not actually _do_ anything. Neat.

	Thank you very very much,
		Jesse W



From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 15:51:05 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:51:05 -0400
Subject: [ANN] PyDO 1.0 Python Data Objects
Message-ID: <mailman.998082392.3880.clpa-moderators@python.org>

What is PyDO?

PyDO is a Object-Relational database access tool. Unlike many other
O-R database access tools, PyDO:

    * easy to wrap your head around
    * doesn't constrain your schema to what it thinks databases should
      look like
    * if you need/want to override the way it does it's work, it's not
      a major surgical effort
    * has tools that will, given a database connection (for Oracle and
      PostgreSQL anyway) can do a lot of the work for you in writing
      your data classes.
    * like any good tool, makes the easy stuff a no-brainer and makes
      the harder things easier too.
    * works with more than one database (currently Oracle, PostgreSQL
      and MySQL, but others are definitely possible)
    * is easy to figure out how it works and when it does things so
      that you won't piss off your DB admin

Go to the PyDO page for more details:
    http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/pydo.html
Download it here:
    http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/skunkweb/PyDO-1.0.tar.gz

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 20:25:07 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:25:07 -0700
Subject: Image manipulation
References: <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B86F062.A0476427@ccvcorp.com>


Tom Robinson wrote:

> Hi, I want to be able to read in a png/jpeg and then write it out
> resized with proper antialiasing etc.  I've looked on the vaults of
> parnassus and there seem to be quite a few things that do this, is
> there a "best" one?  Is there something in the standard lib that's up
> to this?

Python Imaging Library.

www.pythonware.com


Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug 17 16:09:57 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:09:57 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <mailman.998072977.19755.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m8uqnt0m0qvmgrbs4od5v6o4hnrvi1mjgf@4ax.com>

>It may reduce "__future__ kludges", but __future__ can do more than
>just tie up keywords...  I don't thing many uses of __future__ would
>be avoided.  In a sense, it would be like trading a working time
>machine for prescient visions.

You're of course correct, but suppose that the new division semantics
were to be implemented on the keyword "div" and that keyword had been
reserved? I personally continue to believe (STRONGLY!) that new division
semantics should be introduced in this way, in particular because of
synergy with the current divmod() function.This would make it so that those
who want even integer division semantics could get what they want while
at the same time ensuring that all old code continues to work as it used to.

[and imo, this "some new programmers are confused by floating point
division" meme isn't something we should be attempting to solve].

C//



From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug 30 16:48:37 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:48:37 -0700
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <mailman.999189586.17201.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8EA6A5.C7BC02EA@home.net>

Gerson Kurz wrote:
> Please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour, and
> couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you have to
> enclose the arguments in brackets.

If anythng, this is an argument for why print never should have been a
statement in the first place! If you just use sys.stdout.write()
instead, you can then re-bind that all you want, and problem solved.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From robinjim at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 17 08:07:27 2001
From: robinjim at earthlink.net (robin and jim)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:07:27 GMT
Subject: where is doctest module
Message-ID: <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate it
starting from www.python.org.





From kalle at gnupung.net  Sun Aug 12 18:51:18 2001
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:51:18 +0200
Subject: passing data from PHP to python
In-Reply-To: <3B770257.4C60823F@umdnj.edu>; from revyakag@umdnj.edu on Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 06:25:27PM -0400
References: <3B770257.4C60823F@umdnj.edu>
Message-ID: <20010813005118.A14639@gandalf>

[Andrey Revyakin]
> I would like to exe a python module from php.
> In the simpliest case, I have a "test.py" file like this:
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> print "test"
> 
> and I call it from php like this
> 
> system("python test.py");
> 
> Works fine. Now, what if I need to pass an argument from php to the
> "test.py" module? How do I do that?

system("python test.py arg");
might work.

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
[  kalle at gnupung.net  ][ Thought control, brought to you by the WIPO! ]
[ http://gnupung.net/ ][ http://anti-dmca.org/ http://eurorights.org/ ]



From brian at sweetapp.com  Sun Aug 12 02:45:45 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:45:45 -0700
Subject: Help! I am cut off from Python beyond Verson 2.0.
In-Reply-To: <3b761af0.3371718@news.worldonline.de>
Message-ID: <000001c122fa$6a2c6fb0$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

Konrad wrote:
> The author of midipy.pid announced to provide an update for Python2.1,
> but this did not happen. Unfortunately in the meantime he has left the
> Highschool for Arts in Utrecht (URL: http://www2.hku.nl/~simon2) and
> cannot reached anymore and as a consequence I am cut off of any
> further development of Python beyond version 2.0.
> In january in addition to his midipy.pyd the author had provided a
> midipy.cpp which wants to have included
> <Python.h>
> <algorithm>
> <OSC_MIDIInput.h>
> <OSC_MIDIOutput.h>
> Did somebody get an updated version of the module or can someone give
> any help resp. hint how to make midipy.pyd useable beyond Python2.0 ?

I've looked at the source and it seems like it should be pretty easy to
generate a binary for Python 2.1. Do you know what the licensing terms
are?




From just at letterror.com  Tue Aug  7 15:44:29 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:44:29 +0200
Subject: Checking for attribute in the current module with getattr( )
References: <k0nvgjzhetl.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no> <tn0fiagmf2tqe3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3B70451D.7AC520DF@letterror.com>

Lyle Johnson wrote:

> > Now, as indicated I don't really know what object to send in to the
> > hasattr function, indicated with "???" - is what I'm trying to do
> > possible, and how should I in case do it?
> 
> How about:
> 
>     if globals().has_key("func1"):
>         print "This module defines func1"
>     else:
>         print "This one doesn't"

Or

    try:
        func1
    except NameError:
        print "This one doesn't define func1"
    else:
        print "This module defines func1"

Just


From markus at schabi.de  Mon Aug 20 07:48:18 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:48:18 +0200
Subject: SMTP
References: <mailman.997956746.8212.python-list@python.org> <3B7C7660.FFF77A13@engcorp.com> <3B801D64.987C4C88@cs.utwente.nl> <1523044.YEL58v44cs@lunix.schabi.de> <3B8046E2.E5127EB0@cs.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <30252430.HvPv6tv2On@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Richard van de Stadt <stadt at cs.utwente.nl> schrub:

>> You have to append an appropriate Date: Header.
>> 
>> See the Mail RFCs which headers have to be there, and which one can
>> leave out.
> 
> 'Have to' doesn't apply to most mail systems. I've been running a
> system that collects submissions for conferences, which has been
> sending out feedback messages to many addresses using smtplib ever
> since it was introduced in 1.5.2, and this is the first time I meet a
> mail system that bouces because it wants a 'Date:' in the header.

That's why I mentioned the RFCs. There are lots of MTAs that accept 
incorrect messages and correct them (i. E. they add a Date-Header).

But when the RFC says a certain header should be there, then every MTA 
which bounces the message is correct. When the RFC says the header is 
optional then the server is buggy, and one should tell the programmer 
of the server.

Servers that accept incorrect messages are user-friendly, but shouldn't 
be used as reference.
 
> Anyway, I plan to use this:
> 
> from time import time, ctime, tzname, daylight
> date = 'Date: ' + ctime(time()) + ' ' + tzname[daylight] + '\n'
> 
> and put date between the 'Subject:' and the 'From:' lines

As far as I can see this, it should do.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From markus.schaber at student.uni-ulm.de  Fri Aug  3 08:58:16 2001
From: markus.schaber at student.uni-ulm.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:58:16 +0200
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3B69D9F5.D3A240C8@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B6A9FE8.63A8F11F@student.uni-ulm.de>

Hi,

Chris Barker wrote:

> As a complex number really is it's own entity, that we choose to
> represent as a real and imaginary component (after all, the polar form
> is used often as well), it doesn't make any sense to me to maintain two
> exactness attributes. A complex number is one number, and it is either
> exact or not.

Well - there might be some operations whick give back an exact number
regardless the exactless state of a specific component.

The only obvious and somehow useful example I have is using polar
coordinates. Then the absolute value is exact whenever the distance is
exact - the angle is not intersting in this case.

So my opinion is, that it is rarely worth the effort to keep two
different flags here.

markus

-- 
Markus Schaber -- http://www.schabi.de/ -- ICQ: 22042130
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allgemeine Sig-Verletzung 0815/4711  <nicht OK> <Erbrechen> |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+


From mats at laplaza.org  Tue Aug 28 07:20:24 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:20:24 -0400
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
In-Reply-To: <01082812071503.01419@ike>
References: <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
 <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
 <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
 <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010828071807.00ab3660@204.151.72.2>

At 12:07 PM 8/28/2001 +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
 >On Tuesday 28 August 2001 08:27, Mats Wichmann wrote:
 >> Unfortunately Red Hat have recently decided that they won't change
 >> major versions of key packages on minor Red Hat releases... so we're
 >> stuck with Python 1.5.2 as the default until, oh, about RedHat 8.2.
 >>
 >> Folks need to be told that Linux is wonderful, but Red Hat doesn't
 >> necessarily prove that in their choice of what to bundle...
 >
 >Mandrake 8.0, a red-hat-alike (which I find significantly nicer than Red Hat
 >from a non-sysadmin user installation perspective) shipped with python 2.0
 >some months ago. Mandrake's point-zero releases seem eminently usable...
 >
 >I'm currently running 2.0 at home in a bog-standard install and 2.1.1 from
 >the Mandrake cooker at work. No complaints in the months I've been using 
them
 >both, and I'm a full-time Python developer.
 >
 >I think that people need to know that Red Hat is not Linux.

I happen to run Mandrake as well, but any time you pop up with
a "recommendation" someone else has lots of evidence why their
favorite distro is better so I tried to leave that out.




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 02:54:16 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:54:16 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <mailman.998796398.21253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:25:42 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998796398.21253.python-list at python.org>:

:[Sheila King]
:> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
:> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?
:
:msvcrt directly exposes some library functions supplied by, and unique to,
:Microsoft.  So, like it or not (I don't like it myself <wink>), Microsoft is
:the only entity who can answer questions about them with authority.  FWIW,
:the docs MS supplied with MSVC 6 say their _locking function works under
:"Win 95, Win NT", which *usually* means "everything after Win 3.1".

Thanks. I don't have a copy of MSVC 6, so it is hard for me to find the
information on this. This past week I spent a good hour or so at the
microsoft.com's developers site, searching for more definitive info. I
really didn't find anything that helped *me*, but that could be just
because it's *me*.

:Also as usual, the functions MS provides as part of their C library are a
:feeble subset of what you can do by using the Win32 API directly, in this
:case by using the Win32 LockFile and LockFileEx functions.  I don't know
:whether win32all exposes those specific functions; core Python does not.

I've been pouring over the Active State site, as well. The win32
extensions do, apparently, provide access to the LockFile and LockFileEx
functions.
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203

It's just that I was hoping to accomplish this without requiring the use
of the win32 extensions. (Maybe it's silly of me, but I tend to want to
avoid requiring others to install stuff to use the code.)

...<snipped>...
:> class lockobject:
:>     def _lockoperation(self, lockfilename, mode):
:>         size = os.path.getsize(lockfilename)
:>         f = open(lockfilename, 'r')
:>         f.seek(0)
:>         msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), modes[mode], size)
:
:My guess is that's why:  in your interactive sessions, you kept the file
:open.  In the _lockoperation method above, the file will be closed
:implicitly under CPython the instant _lockoperation returns (because the
:refcount on f falls to 0 then, and an open file object is closed by the file
:object's destructor).  The MS _locking docs say:
:
:    Regions should be locked only briefly and should be unlocked before
:    closing a file or exiting the program.
:
:So if you leave locks sitting around when a file is closed, the behavior is
:undefined.  I happen to get the same error from this program:
:
:import os, msvcrt
:
:NAME = 'empty.txt'
:
:size = os.path.getsize(NAME)
:f = open(NAME, 'r')
:msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)
:
:C:\Code\python\PCbuild>python mlock.py
:Traceback (most recent call last):
:  File "mlock.py", line 7, in ?
:    msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)
:IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
:
:In other words, it's acting the same as if the file had never been locked.
:
:> ...
:> Now, why am I getting this Permission denied error?
:
:The MS docs aren't clear, but what you're trying to do goes beyond even the
:little they do say will work.

OK, first of all, thank you for the discussion above. It gives me a
tremendous insight into what I've been doing wrong and how to handle the
problem.

Second of all, I feel that I am at a tremendous disadvantage, as I don't
have access to the MS documentation that you keep referring to. Here's
what I have access to:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/msvcrt-files.html

Of course, I was only intending to leave the files locked very briefly,
but I didn't realize that having them close after being locked would be
a problem. The Python documentation on this module is even more brief
than the MS documentation that you keep referring to as overly brief and
inadequate. (Is everyone who tries to use Python under Windows expected
to have access to the MS VC 6 documentation? If so, where is it
available?)

:Cross-platform file-locking is extremely difficult, in part because Python
:is coded in C and C defines no facilities for doing it.  I don't know why
:you're trying to lock files, but the evidence suggests you're trying to use
:msvcrt.locking for something it was never intended to do (it was intended
:for programs like databases, where multiple threads and even processes
:cooperatively both read and write to a single file, and sometimes need
:exclusive access for brief periods of time to small regions of the file --
:that's why there's a "size" argument).

I am intending to use this for programs that will access databases.
Specifically, CGI scripts using the Berkeley data base hash. The
Berkeley Sleepy Cat that I have access to doesn't support concurrent
write access. I have to handle the file locking myself.

What you see above is the confusion of someone who is trying to learn
about file locking and handling concurrent access at the same time that
she is attempting to learn how Python handles it AND how to do it cross
platform. No more. No less.

Anyhow, I thank you for your examples. And your quoting from the MS VC 6
documentation. It has helped me immensely.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 14:03:49 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:03:49 +0200
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <9kmu1b$5e404$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1146681.C6OKomogB4@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> schrub:

> say the string is s, then you could proceed as follows:
> 
> o = ''
> s = string.split(s,' ')
> for i in s:
>   if (i != ' '):
>     o = o + i + ' '
> 
> This code segment will give you the final required ouput in o

But it is bad :-)

For every loop iteration, it produces two new string objects. And all 
except the last are just food for the garbage collection.

Join is just the better way.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From rob at jam.rr.com  Wed Aug 15 13:42:20 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:42:20 GMT
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com> <Xns90FEA401A2357duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <9le69l$bha$1@news.mathworks.com> <Xns90FEAE99556D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B7AB427.EFC89930@jam.rr.com>

> > You can use 'global' to define a new variable.
> >
> But the global keyword did not create the variable. The assignment to the
> variable created it. You can use the 'global' keyword and still not have
> the variable created, you can also create a global variable without using
> the keyword (e.g. by setting a value in the result of globals()).
> 
> The global keyword simply changes how the name is used within a local
> scope. It does not, of itself, create a global variable. A global variable
> is created by assigning to it either directly from outside a function/class
> body; assigning to it from inside a function before(!) or after the use of
> a matching 'global' statement; or assigning to it indirectly such as
> through globals().
> 

I think I've got a bare grasp of the metaphysics involved in global
value assignment in Python. I was really asking more of a pragmatic
question along the lines of why one would really want to change the
value assigned to a global.

I imagine it might be handy for a variety of different hacks one might
use for convenience, but I wonder doing it is actually good practice.

Thanks,
Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From thomas at gatsoft.no  Fri Aug 31 07:14:41 2001
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:14:41 GMT
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
Message-ID: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no>

Sorry for that stupid subject, but ...

Take this piece of code :

def parse(s):
    keywords = []
    dict = {}
    while 1:
        try:
            str(s % dict)
            break
        except KeyError, e:
            keywords.append(str(e))
            dict[str(e)] = ''
        except:
            raise "Bad format-chars in input-string. Use
'%(keyword)s'-format only." # things like %d etc. not supported. Tips
wanted!!!
    return keywords

if __name__ == '__main__':
    # define a template s :
    s = """
    Hello %(somebody)s,

    How's the weather in %(someplace)s?

    Best regards,
    %(me)s
    """
    print parse(s)

# output is
['somebody', 'someplace', 'me']

The object is to extract all keywords used in a template. Is there a quicker
way, possibly using regular expressions?
This also just traps %(keyword)s-format. How do I trap stuff like %d etc. ??

Thomas




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 10:14:23 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:14:23 -0500
Subject: base classes
In-Reply-To: <15235.45614.138207.962111@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
        <15235.45614.138207.962111@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <15235.48703.191383.736184@beluga.mojam.com>

    Skip> Python does work like C++ where you (more-or-less) concatenate
    Skip> base class structs to build the data structure used by subclass
    Skip> instances.

Oops, make that "Python does not work like C++ ..."

S



From simon at callan.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 14:19:29 2001
From: simon at callan.demon.co.uk (Simon Callan)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:19:29 +0100
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7f7f1ead4a.simon@satin.callan.demon.co.uk>

In message <4aaca91302jcg at argonet.co.uk>
          Mr  J C Greenwood <jcg at argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> I want to run a programme, ITS-0/0, which I have downloaded from
> www.maitint. org. 
> 
> It uses Python, so I downloaded several archives from
> www.schwertberger.dusnet.de/python.html including !Python, !NumPy
> and a directory wimpy. I'm not sure what does what.
> 
> If I double-click on !Python I get a message:
> 
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> Python 2.1 (#12, Apr 18 2001, 20:59:37) [C] on RISCOS
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> 
> 
> What do I need to do to run ITS-0/0?
> 
> I have a RiscPC 600 with a Strong ARM and RISCOS 4.02

Ignoring the other messages about RISC-OS python not supporting TK,
there are two ways to get a python program running on RISC-OS.

1) Set the type of the file containing the main entry point to Python,
and simply doubly click on the file.

2) Put the program into a standard application directory (ie.
!<something>), and create a !run file containing something like:

Python <Obey$dir>.!RunImage

Simon

-- 
http://www.callan.demon.co.uk/simon/



From woodm at equire.com  Fri Aug 10 10:09:51 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:09:51 -0600
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
Message-ID: <3B73EB2F.6050007@equire.com>

Ok, I've been banging my head against this for a sufficiently long time 
that I feel justified in presenting this personal challenge to the list.

How do you make a swap function? 

Everything in python is a reference, but creating a function that will 
swap the references is quite difficult (at least for me it is).

How do you make a function or a callable object instance that will do 
what the following code intends to do:

   def swap (heaven, hell) :
           purgatory = heaven
           heaven = hell
           hell = purgatory

In C++ this was a VERY easy function to write because you could pass 
things via reference; however, I don't want to write some sort of C 
extension for something as simple as swapping 2 variables.

I have been trying to abuse some sort of meta-variable, like __dict__ to 
do this, but I have done nothing more than confuse myself.  That and 
there is a lingering fear in my mind that if one or more of the 
to-be-swapped variables are in __methods__ or __members__ dicts, then I 
will definitely be lost.

That and if the __dict__, __methods__, __members__ approach is used, how 
does one deal with scoping?
       swap(g.h.var, a.q.member)

Thus, I present this problem to the list.
 




From yawyi at gmx.de  Sat Aug  4 15:11:21 2001
From: yawyi at gmx.de (Johannes Stezenbach)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 21:11:21 +0200
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
References: <mailman.996941407.25393.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9moi6o.hqg.yawyi@hell.convergence.de>

zooko at zooko.com <zooko at zooko.com> wrote:
>
>------- begin included strace output
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982012}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982154}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982295}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982435}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982576}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982718}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 982859}, NULL) = 0
>gettimeofday({996940586, 976989}, NULL) = 0
...
>So my `gettimeofday()' sometimes returns a decreasing value.
>
>Hm.  So I suppose I should report this as bug to debian...

This happens on laptops with variable CPU clock frequency
(Intel Speed Step or something similar).

Linux calibrates its timing loop at boot time, and since the
kernel itself does not process APM events, it cannot recalibrate
when the CPU clock speed changes (my laptop's BIOS changes the
CPU clock when I un/plug AC). Linux uses the CPU clock
cycle counter to achieve microsecond relolution for
gettimeofday(), the long term accuracy of gettimeofday() is
determined by a timer interrupt and thus is independent of
the CPU clock.

I noticed that when I got some negative times when profiling
some C code ;-)


Regards,
Johannes



From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 19 14:39:11 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:39:11 +0100
Subject: dumb newbie list question
References: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org> <slrn9o0kpv.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lppug$k91$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Dan Girellini:
>>Is there an easy way to do this without building a
>>  second list of the right size and concatenating them?

Bernd Nawothnig:
>Why will you do this?
>
>l=l+(10-len(l))*['x']
>
>works fine and should be faster then many l.append('x')

If you don't want to create a new list, you could also do

  l.extend( [None] * (10-len(l)) )

(Using None is closer to the way Perl does it than using 'x'.)

                    Andrew





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 17:28:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:28:37 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Neil Macneale" <mac4-devnull at theory.org> wrote in message
news:3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net...
> Why does the interpreter exit when I use the os.execl() function? Even
when
> the command works correctly, the interpreter exits. Am I supposed to run
> this function is a seperate thread?  Thats lame, if so.

The os.exec* functions *overwrite the current process* (which is running
the Python interpreter) with the executable you specify.  It's useless to
run them in a separate *thread*: the whole *process* is overwritten.

I'm sure Dr Ritchie and Dr Thompson, Turing Award winners for the
development of Unix (TM), which originated this arrangement, would
be extremely saddened by finding out that you've deemed their
brainchild 'lame' -- most particularly, don't let the ACM know, or they
might take away their Turing Awards, the computer science equivalent
of Nobel prizes, and wouldn't that be sad?

Nevertheless, if you're running on some Unix-derived system, you will
generally use os.fork to generate a new process first, then in the child
process (after setting the environment up) you will call os.exec* to
run the intended executable for the child-process.  On other operating
systems, if you don't intend for the interpreter process to terminate,
don't use os.exec*; there are other alternatives, although none of
them is as flexible and powerful as the one you consider 'lame'.  Look
at os.spawn* or os.system if the parent and child need no special
communication channels (pipes) between them, os.popen and its
relatives if you do want a pipe between the processes (having more
than one pipe is also possible, for bidirectional communication, but
that is prone to lock-ups unless both ends are very careful in their
I/O interactions).  Nowadays, sockets, rather than pipes, are often
considered to be more flexible and powerful for inter-process
communication (IPC).  Anyway, the alternatives are many, both for
starting another process and for communicating with it.


Alex





From doug.fort at verizon.net  Fri Aug 24 13:27:41 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 18:27:41 +0100
Subject: How to extract cookies?
References: <mailman.998666377.7884.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b868e88_6@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit



A wrote:



> 

> Hi,

> I use httplib module to POST to a website.From  the response(

> header)

> I need to extract cookies. Can you advise me how I can do that

> please?

> 

> 

> The header I receive looks like

> 

> Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0

> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:24:33 GMT

> Location: MemberPortfolio.asp

> Connection: Keep-Alive

> Content-Length: 140

> Content-Type: text/html

> Set-Cookie:

> ECEurope=Password=&Email=leads%40sendme%2Ecz;

> expires=Sun, 21-Oct-2001 23:00:00 GMT; path=/

> Set-Cookie:

> ASPSESSIONIDQQQGQLQO=ABNGDCNBDOIEFJEEPJAOJDKE;

>  path=/

> Cache-control: private

> 

> Thank you for help

> Ladislav

> 

> 

> 

> 

Hi, 



I've attched our CookieContainer class as an example. There is a Cookie 

module in the Python library, but it's mostly for server-side cookie 

handling.

-- 

Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>

http://www.dougfort.net
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: cookiecontainer.py
Type: text/x-java
Size: 10360 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010824/0c4baf9a/attachment.java>

From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sat Aug  4 18:19:56 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:19:56 +0200
Subject: Beginner's questions
References: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ceshk9.ib1.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 4 Aug 2001 14:02:36 -0700, Lad <printers at sendme.cz> wrote:
>Hi,
>I am a Perl programmer but I miss some things in Perl. For this 
>reason I am looking for another, better (if any) programming 
>language. Maybe Python would be my choice. Can you please 
>answer the following?
>1.How well threads are implemented in Python particularly under 
>windows?

Python's threads work just great. module threading in the Python standard
library

>2.Are there any libraries for working with HTTP protocols that is 
>modules that could help download( grab) web pages with GET 
>methods and modules for using  also POST method without 
>necessity to program these applications with sockets?

Yes, module httplib in the standard library

>3.Are there any libraries for SMTP, POP3 and NNTP protocols?

Modules smtplib, poplib, nntplib in the standard library. imaplib is also
there, should you need it.

>4. Is there a program for making executable files from python 
>programs?

Yes, several: py2exe and Gordon McMillan's installer.

>5. What modules , except Tk, can I use for GUI programming with 
>Python?

wxPython (wxWindows), pyQt (QT), pyGTK (GTK/GNOME), pyFLTK and others (native
win32 and MFC like are also possible)

>6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web 
>browser directly or in other words display html file in python 
>application?

If you want to display a html file in a Python application, that means you must
use a web browser control in your application.  wxPython has a minimal html
rendering widget, and on win32 it can also embed ActiveX controls. The wxPython
demo on win32 has an example of embedding Internet Explorer.

>7. Where can I find a available modules list?

The standard library's module list is in the Python docs
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/)

Third party libraries can be found at The Vaults of Parnassus

    http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

and I can also recommend the relevant category at the Open Directory Project:

    http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Modules/

>8. What are best tutorials/books on Python?

Others may answer this better than me. I have started with a very short Python
tutorial on IBM developerWorks, IIRC, then proceeded with the Python tutorial
from Guido van Rossum in the standard docs.

>9. Can you give me examples of large Python application?

Zope (http://www.zope.org) and Boa Constructor (a wxPython IDE) are two that I
know of.

>10. Why do YOU use Python?

It helps me doing little utility programs I need very quickly. It has the
philosophy of "batteries included". Almost everything I need is already in the
standard library. For most of the stuff that isn't, there are third-party
modules.

>11. Is it possible to to "talk" to java applets via Python?

Hmm. Yes, of course. But what's even cooler, you can even *develop* Java
applets in Python. There is an alternative Python implementation that targets
the Java Virtual Machine, it's called Jython. :-)

>Thank you for your answers?

You're welcome.

>Ladislav

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug  7 12:37:42 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 09:37:42 -0700
Subject: Howling (was Re: Case insensitivity)
References: <mailman.995637214.19543.python-list@python.org> <memo.20010803215845.16469d@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kp5gm$j7t$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <memo.20010803215845.16469d at digitig.compulink.co.uk>,
Tim Rowe <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote:
>
>When you want to fix "mistakes", why do you think you get howls of     
>protest? It's because for /some/ of us those are not mistakes at all,  
>they're Just The Way It Should Be.                                     

That's not the only reason for the howls of protest.  I agree with you
WRT case sensitivity, but the vast majority of howls over division (by
number of people, not number of posts) had to do with compatibility
concerns.  The howls over "print >>" had to do with sheer ugliness.  And
so on.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug 12 16:19:49 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:19:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
In-Reply-To: <ac677656.0108101522.7ee95f6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130019080.4209-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 10 Aug 2001, Tom Good wrote:

>Joshua Marshall <jmarshal at mathworks.com> wrote in message news:<9l12mo$m7c$1 at news.mathworks.com>...
>> I always use '.  Holding down shift is just far too much effort.
>
>My thoughts exactly.  Single quote doesn't require shifting -- it is
>the 'automatic transmission' of string delimiters.
>
>This also explains why Lists are better than Tuples: typing (1,2,3)
>requires two shifts, typing [1,2,3] requires none.  ;-)

I do not follow.

1,2,3

requires even less.

>Tom

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 12, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Is it possible to feel gruntled?" _/




From prem at engr.uky.edu  Thu Aug  2 20:21:46 2001
From: prem at engr.uky.edu (Prem Rachakonda)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 17:21:46 -0700
Subject: Zero division error!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000@seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu> <oCga7.75798$Cy.10897029@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <e56d8da7.0108021621.67556a14@posting.google.com>

Hi,
   That was a perfect guess. I intialized d with zeros(). Initially I
didn't use 'Float'. But now even when I use Float it doesn't work. I
think, I have a bug in my code..and my not be in Python...Let me
check..

Thanks,
Prem.
"Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote in message news:<oCga7.75798$Cy.10897029 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com>...
> "Prem Rachakonda" <prem at engr.uky.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000 at seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu...
> > Hi,
> >   I am writing a script for 'cubic spline interpolation' and when there is
> > a float value = 0.004, it is rounded off to zero and I am getting a Zero
> > Division error. Is it a python bug?
> >
> > Prem.
> >
> > x=array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
> > 2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104])
> > ..
> > ..
> > ..
> > d[0]=x[1]-x[0]
> > c[1]=(y[1]-y[0])/d[0]
> >
> > Here d[0] is 0.004(equally spaced points) and is being considered as 0 and
> > I am getting this error.
> 
> 
> You haven't posted enough code to be sure, but I'm going to make some
> guesses.
> 
> (1) array is Numeric.array
> (2) d is created in a way similar to zeros([N])
> 
> If that's the case, what happening is that d is an array of ints, not floats
> (int is the default). That means that when attributes are set using floats,
> they are silently truncated to ints in the array. This is somewhat of a
> misfeature of Numeric in my opinion, but I don't think it's actually a bug.
> Assuming that your are actually using zeros to create d, you could use
> Numeric.zeros([N], Numeric.Float) instead.
> 
> Then again, this is all a guess.
> 
> -tim


From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 24 14:48:12 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 11:48:12 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <mailman.998606076.30996.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m67hc09b0@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.998606076.30996.python-list at python.org>, Chris says...
>
...
>As impressed as I am by Tim Peters, I imagine it would be more than a
>single Tim-year to get the job done!

<intentional tease to attract developers>

I dunno...

I'm only fractionally as smart in Tim, and I'm _totally_ inexperienced in
compilers.  But in my spare time lately, I've been working on a system--which I
hope to share with everybody soon--which will meet many of these needs.  And if
somebody _really_ smart like Tim (or the rest of you folks) got interested, I
think it could really go somewhere.

The key to it is a paradigm shift.

My favorite example of a paradigm shift is the common dishwashing machine.  If
you asked somebody to invent a dishwasher (and they had never seen one), the
first thing the would probably think of is making a machine that washes dishes
the way people do--by somehow mechanically scrubbing the dishes with a dish rag.
But then, after thinking about it for a few seconds they'd realize that it could
never be made to work.  Sure, plates are easy, but how the heck do you wash
glasses and silverware?  Then, they might even conclude that a dishwasher was
impossible.  The more experienced folks might say, "Of course, the mechanical
dishwasher idea has been brought up many times before, and it just isn't
feasible for the following very good reasons X, Y, and Z."  And they'd be right:
as imagined, it just isn't feasible (though I saw dog-washing machine in a Three
Stooges movie once which comes pretty close <wink>.)

Yet deep in our hearts, we all just _know_ there's _gotta_ be a way to make a
dishwasher.  The fact that nobody has figured out how to do it doesn't change
that.  (BTW, this sort of deep-in-the-heart thinking is what led Edison to
persist for years in the dark before he succeeded in making the first practical
light bulb.)

Of course, anybody who knows how a dishwasher works knows that it's actually
quite simple--once you adopt the right paradigm.  Details differ, but basically
all dishwashers work by spraying high-pressure water at the dishes.  (Oh, and
they also have a human attached to do loading, unloading, and pre-washing
<wink>.)

Likewise, video recorders seemed to be impossible for the first decade of
television.  The only way to record TV shows was to film a TV screen!  They
recognized early-on that the problem was that you couldn't get the videotape to
move fast enough to capture a video signal without breaking the tape.  Was the
answer to make the tape stronger, or maybe to design better mechanics? 
No--somebody eventually figured out the right paradigm: run a _wide_ tape
_slowly_ across a tiltated head rotating at _high speed_.  (Doh!  <head slap!>)

What was the question?  Oh--I remember: Python compilers.  The key is to stop
trying to invent little mechanical washcloth thingies that are supposed to scrub
the source code, and begin to spray high-pressure water at it.  Also, stop
trying to speed up the tape, and work on speeding up the head.

Everybody still lost?  Good--if you got this far, that means I've held your
interest <wink>.

Ok, here's a hint.  From a user's point of view, dynamic typing is useful
primarily for doing generic programming.  (The benefit of not having to declare
variables is just incidental.)  For example, I was delighted and amazed early-on
when I discovered that some Python code I'd written to work on lists
accidentally worked just as well on a Numeric array.  Cool!

For example, consider the humble "average" function.  We all know the algorithm
by heart:

   >>> def avg(x):
   ...    sum = 0.0
   ...    for element in x:
   ...       sum += element
   ...    return sum / len(x)
   ...
   >>> x = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
   >>> avg(x)
   >>> 2.5

In Python, this function works equally well for lists, tuples, arrays, or
Numeric arrays full of integers, floats, or longs (except that it always returns
a float--darn!)  That's beautiful.  But in all honesty, how often do you really
_need_ to do generic programming?  I'm guessing, only a very small fraction of
the time--1%, maybe?  Most of the time, you (the programmer) really do know what
types you're working with--even if Python doesn't, not because Python's stupid,
but because it's not as smart as you, and you haven't told it (which, if you
think about it, isn't really the smartest thing you ever did <wink>.)

Dynamic typing always comes at a cost (overhead), in order to give you a benefit
which--in the vast majority of cases--you don't need and can't even use, that
is, generic programming.  (But at least you don't have to declare variables
<wink>.)

OK, so what if a system already existed that provided the benefits of generic
programming (when you _do_ need it), without the overhead?  What if that system
wasn't Python, but, with a little work (a _lot_ of work actually--that's why I
need your help!), could be made to _seem_ like Python?

I'm seeing a speed factor that ranges from about 1:1 to 70:1, depending on the
algorithm.  Also, as compiled programs, my executables are a lot smaller than
equivalent "frozen" Python programs, and are *much* harder to de-compyle.

If you've figured out what I'm up to, please consider becoming a co-developer. 
(Oh, and *please* don't be the first to blab <wink>.)

</intentional tease to attract developers>

hoping-horses-will-drink-better-if-you-make-'em-wonder
   -what-kind-of-snake-oil-is-in-the-trough-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug 22 13:13:34 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:13:34 +0200
Subject: ATTN Belgarath
Message-ID: <9m0ote$2m4j$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Merci encore pour tous tes posts...
J'ai enfin Dark City au complet...

--Gillou




From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Mon Aug 20 06:05:06 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:05:06 GMT
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python Path Blues)
References: <mailman.998282850.18028.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mh5g7.149568$g_3.23207399@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998282850.18028.python-list at python.org...

>
> It could be that you're not confused enough yet <0.9 wink>.  The only
effect
> PYTHONPATH has on sys.path is to add its directories near the start of
> sys.path, so you *should be* able to get exactly the same effect by losing
> PYTHONPATH and fiddling sys.path yourself

Now, it is VERY clear.
Thanks,
Maan




From othello at javanet.com  Sun Aug 12 22:31:54 2001
From: othello at javanet.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:31:54 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B773C1A.CC9223DB@javanet.com>

Yes,  I prefer YIELD to be enabled without using:  from __future__.
That technique ought to be saved for more dastardly (or
courageous) changes like the division operator.

-- Raymond


Guido van Rossum wrote:

> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:
>
> > I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
> > 'natural question':
> >
> > Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> > necessary ?
>
> If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
> can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
> breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
> silent break.
>
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug 15 18:12:26 2001
From: quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:12:26 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nlsu9.js2.quinn@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 15 Aug 2001 02:58:26 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>xrange apparently doesn't malloc the values until they're used, but
>they eventually get malloc'd.  I think functional programming has run
>slightly amuck here.  What's wanted is something equivalent to
>
>   sum = 0
>   i = 1
>   while i <= 100 :
>      sum = sum + i
>      i = i + 1

In python, as in most languages (especially most functional languages),
space and time efficiency is not the goal.  It's possibly a goal, but not
*the* goal.  Programmer efficiency is the goal.

I have a feeling that you're not really running out of memory because of your
100 element lists.  Instead, I think some assembly-loving part of you,
fiercely devoted to that tin god eifficiency, is exclaiming "but it's not as
efficient as it could be!  forget the big picture, optimization is the key!".

Ignore that annoying little voice.  Wait until you actually have a problem, in
memory or speed.  Then find out which part of your program has the problem.
Then use a less naive algorithm:

def sum(low, high):
    p = high - low + 1
    if p % 2:
        return (low + high) * (p // 2) + (low + high)//2
    else:
        return (low + high) * (p // 2)

>Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
>keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.
>
>Here's another one: the print statement puts a gratuituous space after
>each thing you print.  So
>
>   for i in ['a','b','c']:
>     print i,
>
>prints "a b c " instead of "abc".

The spaces are as gratuitous as all the spaces you put in between your words.
It has a lot of common sense: spaces seperate things nicely.  'print' is
supposed to be quick and easy to use for printing out short messages.  That's
why it's a statement (no parens), automatically converts its arguments to
strings, puts spaces in between its elements, and puts a newline on the end (I
personally wouldn't mind if we dropped the "print foo," syntax, which is
irregular and tends to lead to confusing extraneous softspace spaces).  If
'print' didn't put in all those gratuitous spaces and newlines, I'd wind up
having to put them in by hand myself most of the time (as I do in some other
languages).

If you want "low level" control over your IO, use the low level interface:
sys.stdout.write.  'print' is optimized for casual use.  You can also use the
string formatting operator, %.


And if you're so big on common sense, why didn't you just write

print 'abc'


<wink>


From patio87 at aol.com  Thu Aug 30 22:34:10 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 02:34:10 GMT
Subject: Newbie needs Help(sorry)
Message-ID: <20010830223410.13049.00000310@mb-bg.aol.com>

I was wondering how I can scan my computer for my IP address in python
If someone could tell me how to do that it would be very appreciated and im
just 14 and still learning the languge so be easy please.

 I was also wondering how people make all those programs that scan computers
for information and stuff. Because I cant find anything like that I dont know
where to lear to do that stuff? 

any advice is apreciated thanks


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 15:47:31 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:47:31 -0400
Subject: Windows DLL import error (bug?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0108101029020.12748-100000@cb921.local>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEAALFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Campbell]
> I am using Windows NT 4.0 with Python 2.1.
>
> I have a DLL called _starla.dll,

It appears from the following that it was actually named _STARLA.DLL.

> and the words 'import _starla' at the top of a script in the same
directory.
> This of course works just fine.  This morning, after I rebuilt the dll, I
> suddenly found an ImportError, and python could not find the dll.
>
> Viewing the directory through an smbfs mount on a Linux machine, I
> notice that the file (according to ls) is called _STARLA.DLL.

Why would you have to go thru all that to find out the name?  A "dir" in a
DOS box should have shown you the same thing.  Explorer should have shown it
to you too, assuming you set its "Allow all uppercase names" option.

> renaming the file to _starla.dll fixed my problem, though it took a very
> long time to figure out.

Whenever you have an import problem, run Python with the -v switch (or
even -vv).  That displays a lot of info about what Python is trying to do.

> If I rename the file to _STARLA.DLL, the error returns.
>
> I thought windows was case insensitive?

While NTFS is case-preserving but case-insensitive, Python switched to
case-sensitive imports on all platforms; see PEP 235 for details:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0235.html

If you can't keep your cases straight, you can set the envar PYTHONCASEOK,
and then Python will ignore import case on Windows.  Not recommended,
though.  Also move to the 2.1 bugfix release, 2.1.1 -- IIRC, it fixed some
endcase import glitches on Windows.





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 07:17:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:17:12 +0200
Subject: Bug?
References: <4835e825.0107241639.bbf438e@posting.google.com> <0hL97.8461$9i1.776789@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9k8ofv09io@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:0hL97.8461$9i1.776789 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> As a general rule it's a very bad idea to change a list you're iterating
> over with for.
>
> a-list-by-any-other-name-can-still-be-changed-ly y'rs  - steve
    ...
> > mainlist = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> > copy = mainlist
> >
> > for item in copy:
> >  print item,
> >  mainlist.remove(item)

...and therefore the original poster should change his or her
code to ensure a copy of mainlist IS made.  e.g., changing
the second assignment statement to:

    copy = mainlist[:]

would suffice, because the whole-list slice [:] DOES perform
a (shallow, but that's sufficient here) copy of the list.


Alex





From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 13:27:36 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:27:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDLLJAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311323050.4373-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> Ignacio is hung up on a four-letter word, and is thereby doomed to write
> code that's needlessly brittle.  The way goto is used in Python's
> implementation is usually a simple by-hand compilation of the higher-level
> construct (which can't be coded *directly* in C):

Well, I've released this needlessly brittle code, so now you can critique it
in it's entirety:

  http://ignacio.openservices.net/devel/vorbis-0.0a.tar.bz2

Specifically, the code is in the Vorbis_read.getcomments() method.

> It's not the gotos that make this more robust, it's the higher-level
> construct they're *implementing*, and that construct is exactly on-target
> for preventing "stupid mistakes" in letting temps leak, or letting a partial
> result leak in an error case.  If you suffer KFG (Kneejerk Fear of Goto), I
> suppose you could do
>
>     initialize temps and result to NULL
>     int erroneous = 0;
>     do {
>         # normal stuff, but when an error occurs, do
>         erroneous = 1;
>         break;  /* and hope we're breaking out of the 'do'! */
>
>         # more stuff
>
>     } while(0);
>
>     if (erroneous) {
>         Py_XDECREF(result);
>         result = NULL;
>     }
>     Py_XDECREF(temp1);
>     ...
>     Py_XDECREF(tempn);
>     return result;
>
> but that's no improvement by any rational measure ...

Ugh. Returning from within the do as soon as the error occurs would probably
be better anyways.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From zooko at zooko.com  Sat Aug  4 17:59:15 2001
From: zooko at zooko.com (zooko at zooko.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:59:15 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing 
In-Reply-To: Message from Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> 
   of "Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:29:11 CDT." <15212.23320.31927.755668@beluga.mojam.com> 
References: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie>  <15212.23320.31927.755668@beluga.mojam.com> 
Message-ID: <E15T9Rz-0003ab-00@imp.aerie>

Okay, I think what is happening is that `time.time()' uses `gettimeofday()'
which reads the hardware clock.  This means that in theory it can return
anything at all, and even in practice the following things can, I think, cause
`time.time()' to return decreasing (or even wildly varying) answers:

 * skew correction, where your OS notices that your hw clock runs too fast or
   too slow and resets it a little bit to keep it more accurate,
 * synchronizing with another clock e.g.
  + the user manually fixing the date, or
  + an NTP like service which automatically syncs using network signals,
 * daylight savings time, if your OS is silly enough to store that in the
   hardware clock.
 * your CPU speed varying can fool the linux kernel as far as how much time has
   passed (thanks to Johannes Stezenbach for explaining that[1]).

For some uses, you *want* your timer to reflect these kinds of changes (except
for the last one), but for my purposes in Mojo Nation I needed a guaranteed
monotonically increasing time.

So I wrote a monotonically-increasing timer[2], which was a bit trickier than 
I thought it would be.  It comes with its own unit test, and if you have
RunTests[3] then you can execute `timerutil.py' itself to run all of its tests.
The application which needs monotonically increasing timestamps is the `DoQ'[4]
(the "do queue") -- a simple event scheduler that we use in Mojo Nation.

Without the monotonically increasing guarantee, the scheduler was sometimes
doing some tasks in the opposite order that the tasks had been requested, which
was causing inexplicable behaviour.


If a floating point expert looks at IncreasingTimer, I would really like to
know if there is an efficient way to pick the *very next* floating point number
up.  I tried to approximate that in here by calculating the epsilon
experimentally and then doubling it whenever it failed to bump the float up.


Regards,

Zooko

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058332.html
[2] http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/common/timeutil.py?content-type=text/plain
[3] http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/common/RunTests.py?content-type=text/plain
[4] http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/common/DoQ.py?content-type=text/plain



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Mon Aug 27 05:34:23 2001
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:34:23 +0200
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
Message-ID: <MPG.15f43279f613af34989682@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
first let me say that I'm new to Python and that I really love it. 
Finally I can spend my time solving my problems and not fighting with the 
programming language.

Okay, here is what I do. I have two files (ASCII), each of them 
containing a huge amount (let's say 100.000) triangles. The format is:

Number of triangle,number of first node, number of second node , number 
of third node \n

node are corners of the triangle here. Each node has three coordinates in 
space, but we don't need them here.

The two files are describing exactly the same group of triangles, but the 
triangles are numbered differently in the two files. So the triangle 
containing the nodes (12,49583,331) has the number 5 in one file and the 
number 23094 in the other one. As two triangles can share two nodes I 
have to compare all three nodes for all triangles.

I have two dictonaries:

trione={number triangel:1.node,2.node,3.node}
(key and values are integer)
tritwo=as trione

def common(list1,list2):
    hit=0
    for i in list1:
        for j in list2:
            if i==j:
                hit +=1
    return hit

for t1 in trione.keys():
    for t2 in tritwo.keys():
        if common(trione[t1],tritwo[t2])>=3:
            out.write("%i;%i \n" % (t1,t2))



Works fine but it takes years. I tried to remove from the dictionaries 
the triangles that already have been identified to reduce data.
(using pop or slicing) but this slowed the process even more. I know I 
could speed up things by breaking the loops in common() when one node 
from list1 is not in list2, but for future use I have to deal with shapes 
containing more than three nodes.

Any idea how I could significantly improve perfomance? In "Programming 
Python" I learned about tuple stacks, binary search trees and graphs but 
I'm not sure whether one of those will help. Do I really have to creep 
back to C? If so, can anyone tell me how to get my dictonaries into a C 
routine? (I know I have to use SWIG, but a little example would help a 
lot.)

Thanks in advance.

Marcus



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Aug 11 22:08:52 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:08:52 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Zope 2.4 as W2k service
In-Reply-To: <f8ed7.1653$96.1409@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108121206450.148-100000@central>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, SRK wrote:

> OH and I forgot to add, I had ActivePython 2.1 and Python 2.2a1 installed
> along with Zope.

I'd suggest joining Zope's mailing list - the Zope website should give
you info on how to join.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From mday at apple.com  Thu Aug 23 17:32:58 2001
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:32:58 -0700
Subject: Iterating throught 2 lists at the same time
References: <9m3rmg$8u55$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <230820011432584254%mday@apple.com>

In article <9m3rmg$8u55$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>, Rajarshi Guha
<rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote:

>   I have the following construct:
> 
> >>> a = ['a','b','c']
> >>> b = ['x','y','z']
> >>> for i,j in a,b:
> ...     print i,j
> ... 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> 
> 
> In my actual program the elements of a and b are themselves lists, but I 
> think that does'nt  really matter (or does it?)
> So, how can I iterate over a and b in 'parallel'  (ie in the first 
> iteration I want a[0] and b[0] and so on)

>>> for i,j in zip(a,b):
...   print i,j
... 
a x
b y
c z


From camara at home.com  Wed Aug 15 08:48:37 2001
From: camara at home.com (John M. Camara)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 05:48:37 -0700
Subject: Unable to import dll extension that relies on a second dll
References: <9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58@posting.google.com> <9ldb8801jhq@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9eb7f931.0108150448.2f6da101@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9ldb8801jhq at enews3.newsguy.com>...
> "John M. Camara" <camara at home.com> wrote in message
> news:9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58 at posting.google.com...
> > I have not been able to create a Python extension in Windows
> > that requires a call to a function in another dll.  In the
> > simplified example below a function called foo in extension.dll
> > calls bar a function in supporting.dll.  I used SWIG to wrap the
> > functions in extension.dll and compiled both dlls in Borland C++
> > Builder 5.  When I try to import the extension I get an import
> > error stating that the module could not be found.
> 
> Where do the extensions DLL's live?  Depending on your version
> of Windows (95 and 98 go one way, NT another, 2000 yet
> another, &c) that may be the root of things.  If they're all on
> the PATH or system directories, then it should work on all
> Windows versions, otherwise it gets hairy.
> 
> 
> Alex

I'm using Win NT 4 and the extensions exist in /winnt/system32 directory.


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Sat Aug 25 04:03:46 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 08:03:46 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998624031.16670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oemv2.ffr.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:32:04 -0400, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> pisze:

>> Would it work for Python to not heap-allocate ints but tag them in
>> the lowest bit, assuming pointers are even?
> 
> No, and for several reasons.  The most obvious one is that Python
> runs on word-addressed machines, where no bits of a pointer are
> abusable.

Making it optional, falling back to current representation in such
case, solves this problem. Any others?

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 10:01:42 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:01:42 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
In-Reply-To: <013901c11da5$09c688e0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051749150.23391-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Ken Seehof wrote:

>From: "Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru>

>> What do you think?
>>
>> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
>
>This is python, not perl.  Readability therefore has priority over terse
>obfuscation.  I definitely prefer 'yield' over '*'.

'cause I have problems typing 'yiled\h\h\held' ;-)
Seriously, yield is as fundamental as '%' in formatting string
role. There is nothing wrong using '*' instead of yild --
readability doesn't suffer.

>The only argument I can think of in favor of '*' is that it avoids
>introducing a keyword,

I wonder if anybody used yeild as a keyword...

>and therefore is more backward compatible.  Since I don't
>think I have any legacy code with 'yield' in it (knocking on wood), I will
>gladly accept a new keyword to avoid perlization of the python language.

I equally fear it's COBOLization...

>While your use of generators is clever, I'm not sure what, if anything
>generators are actually buying you here.
>
>What's wrong with:
>
>import calendar, string
>def calt(year, month):
>    month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
>    scal = ''
>    scal += "<B>%s.%s</B>" % (month, year)
>    scal += "<TABLE BORDER=1>"
>    for week in month_cal:
>      scal += "\n<TR>"
>      for day in week:
>        scal += "<TD>%s</TD>" % (day or "&nbsp;")
>      scal += "</TR>"
>    scal += "</TABLE>"
>    return scal

Except for long table you get far too many concatenations.
(Well, calendar is not that long).

>Unless, of course you are trying to sell python to a sceptical client
>who, you happen to know, loves generators. :-)
>
>BTW, nice calendar format.

"Red" days are missing, though...
I also have a lambda-version I wrote long time ago

-------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python1.5
import sys, re, string
from calendar import *

b=1
t="Python Calendar"

try:
 [_,m,_,y]=re.split('&|=',raw_input())
except:
 b="Welcome!"

if b==1:
 try:
  m=int(m)
  y=int(y)
  assert 0<m<13 and 0<y<3000
  c=[day_abbr]+monthcalendar(y,m)
  t="%s for %s, %i"%(t,month_name[m],y)
  ta="<table>\n%s</table>"
  tr="<tr>%s</tr>\n"
  td="<td>%s</td>"
  def jm(f,l): return string.join(map(f,l))
  b=ta%jm(lambda(x):tr%jm(lambda(x):td%[" ",x][x!=0],x),c)
 except:
  b="Oh! Bad values given!"

print """Content-Type: text/html

<html><head><title>%(t)s</title><head><body>
<div align=center><h1>%(t)s</h1>
%(b)s
<hr>
<table><tr><td>
<form action="/cgi-bin/pycal.cgi" method="post">
Please, enter data:<br>
Month: <input type="text" name="Month"><br>
Year: <input type="text" name="Year"><br>
<input type="submit" value="Show calendar">
</form>
</td></tr></table>
</div>
</body></html>
"""%vars()
-------------------------------

(It was so formatted to beat Perl program doing the same ;-)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From jeff at janix.com  Fri Aug 17 14:01:47 2001
From: jeff at janix.com (Jeff Sasmor)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:01:47 GMT
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f_cf7.255$Pr3.100957@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>

I use wingide (www.wingide.com) everyday and really
like it - it's inexpensive (at  ~US$100) and is able to
work with the wxPython GUI toolkit.

--
Jeff Sasmor
jeff at sasmor.com
www.netkook.com is an "open Zope CMF site"

"Alan Green" <web.mail at lycos.com> wrote in message
news:270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac at posting.google.com...
> I've been looking at Python IDEs over the last week, and this is what
> I've found. On the theory that other people might be interested, here
> are the results...
>
<snip>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 09:24:56 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:24:56 -0400
Subject: namespace confusion
References: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <P2bc7.5847$qm1.54013@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

first.py needs to include a DEFINITION of functfirst, not a call of it. THe
program as you show it should give you a NameError in main.py when you try
to call functfirst().

If not, post the exact error messages you are getting (I assume you have
simplified somewhat in your original post).

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B7135E2.40701 at herts.ac.uk...
> Trivial question I think.
>
> I have a program that is organised in three files as follows:
>
> #main.py
> #########
>
> from first import *
> from second import *
>
> functfirst() #from first
> functSecond() #from second
>
> ########################
>
> #first.py
> ##########
>
> functfirst()
>
> ************
>
> #second.py
> ##########
>
> from first import *
>
> def functCecond():
> functfirst() #
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> The problem I am having is I can't access the functfirst() from
> second.py. It makes no differce if I import it or not. What am I doing
> wrong or not doing that I should?
>
> blobby
>




From juanv at posta.unizar.es  Thu Aug 23 08:24:40 2001
From: juanv at posta.unizar.es (Juan Valiño)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:24:40 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
Message-ID: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>

Many times I want to extract a sublist and I have the initial position  p
plus the length  n.
So I do:
v[p:p+n]

Many times the initial position  p  is an expression. Hence, I have to
repeat it tediously (and with a possible lost of performance) or assign it
previously to a variable. The last is boring and is a little trick out of
the logic of the program

My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
v[5 # 2]
Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]

v[5 # -2]
Extract 2 elements ending at (but not including the) 5: [ v[3], v[4] ].
Equivalent to v[5-2:5]

I think that this little syntactic sugar allows programs more compact and
readable. Also, I had less "start and end point paranoias". I suppose that
the implementation is easy and the current programs are not affected at all.





From LArbilla at pav.com  Mon Aug  6 13:15:04 2001
From: LArbilla at pav.com (LArbilla at pav.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:15:04 -0500 
Subject: win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a pythom COM serve
	r
Message-ID: <24C5595F6FE1D211B5A700A0C9AB2EC1019F26A2@pav10exc.pav.com>

I'm seriously stuck (2 days now) at my first attempt to use win32com to
write a com server in python.
I've search and read all I could find and I still don't see how to solve the
problem:
  
1) I wrote a simple COM server in python, it registers and I can see it in
PythonWin's COM Browser:
2) I tried to use it from VB:
	Dim theServer As Object
	Set theServer = CreateObject("Python.Rae")
   and got error -2147467259 (80004005) "Unexpected Python Error:
exceptions.ImportError: No module named raecom"
3) So, I decided to first test it from Python.
   The client calls the server's  __init__ (from win32com.client.Dispatch), 
   but the call fails with the same error (in python, it only shows
-2147467259)
3) I tried:
	- putting all of the code in c:\program files\python  (where python
and win32com are installed)
		and it didn't make a difference
	- I also tried commenting out the line "_reg_class_spec", which has
the only reference to "raecom"
		and it didn't make a difference

I would appreciate any tips. I'm sure it is something simple.
Below is the code for the server, the client and the "trace".
Thanks a bunch!!
Laura.
larbilla at pav.com

SERVER CODE:
import win32com.server
import raeapimodule
import win32traceutil

class Rae:
	_public_methods_ = ['ConfigFromFile', 'Init']
	_public_attrs_ = ['projectName']
	_readonly_attrs_ = ['projectName']
	_reg_clsid_ = "{8680B790-875A-11d5-9A59-005004630197}"
	_reg_progid_ = "Python.Rae"
	_reg_desc_ = "Python COM RAE Wrapper"
	_reg_class_spec_ = "raecom.Rae"
#only for dual interfaces
#	_com_interfaces_ = ['IRae']
	def __init__(self):
		print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ being called"
		self._pid = -1
		print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ uno"
		self.projectName = ""
		print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ dos"
		return 1
	def ConfigFromFile(self, fileName):
		print "raecom.py.class Rae.ConfigFromFile being called"
		self._pid = raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(fileName)
		if (self._pid > 0):
			self.projectName = fileName
		return self._pid
	def Init(self):
		print "raecom.py.class Rae.Init being called"
		status = raeapimodule.Init(self._pid)
		return status

if __name__ == '__main__':
	import win32com.server.register
	win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(Rae)

CLIENT CODE:

import win32com.client
print "start"
o = win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.Rae")
print "called dispatch"
o.ConfigFromFile("c:\\larbilla\\test\\raetest\\pull_multimap_4.pi_ot_config"
)
print "called configfromfile"
print o.projectName

TRACEUTIL:

Registered: Python.Rae 
start  <--- this actually shows in the command line
raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ being called
raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ uno
raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ dos
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "raecomtest.py", line 4, in ?
    o = win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.Rae")
  File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\__init__.py", line 94, in
Dispatch
    dispatch, userName =
dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 80, in
_GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 71, in
_GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147467259, 'Unspecified error', None, None)





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 16:42:56 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:42:56 -0500
Subject: Python version dilemma
In-Reply-To: <9mea2e$q9s$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <9me54u$4a3$1@flood.xnet.com>
        <mailman.998941722.3618.python-list@python.org>
        <9mea2e$q9s$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15242.45264.271863.371740@beluga.mojam.com>

    Aahz> Eww.  That would mask a real syntax error (say, introduced by a
    Aahz> typo).  Use an if statement.

That's a bit more complex because the sys.version* stuff isn't the same
between versions, but is obviously an option.  Still, presuming you actually
test your code enough to try importing the relevant modules before shipping
them to a client, you should be able to catch all syntax errors that are not
associated with version changes.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From writeson at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  3 10:31:18 2001
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:31:18 GMT
Subject: Python & wxGTK & wxPython on Solaris 2.6
Message-ID: <WAya7.1444$xY6.172862@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi,

I'm a relative newbie to Unix/Linux, so please forgive me if I'm asking a
really obvious question. I'm tying to install Python, wxGTK and wxPython on
my Sun Ultra 5 running Solaris 2.6 at work. Here's what I've got installed
so far:

gcc     2.95.3   -   from www.sunfreeware.com
gnu make         -  from www.sunfreeware.com
gtk+   1.2.10    -  from www.sunfreeware.com
glib     1.2.10    -  from www.sunfreeware.com
Python-2.1.1    -  from www.python.org

I've got this set up in /usr/local/bin   etc., etc.

Now I've downloaded wxGTK version 2.3.1 and have tried to build/install it
prior to installing wxPython. The problem I'm having is this; when I run
./configure --with-gtk for wxGTK it runs for quite awhile checking things
out, but then exits with a

setup.h not changed
config.status: test: argument expected

I'm not sure what this means or where I should look to resolve the problem.
I would really appreciate any help or guidance on this. I'm trying to make
Python the scripting language of choice at work over Perl, and I'd really
like to show off wxPython as a way to convince people and as a useful tool.

Thanks in advance,
Doug Farrell





From michael at rcp.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 11:09:26 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:09:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
References: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F2A49E97859michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

shezafd at yahoo.com (Daphna Shezaf) wrote in 
news:54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7 at posting.google.com:

> Hi,
> I am a python enthusiast and have been programming around in python
> for sometime. I came up with the idea to use python for internal
> scripts we need in my company (for example: build scripts).
> That's nice (I think), but it will be hard to convince people that
> python interpreter should be installed on every machine around.
> Do you think it will be possible to install the interpreter on a
> single server, so that people will actually run their scripts on this
> server? Is it possible (and how), for the script to run a program on a
> different machine (We're using windows 2000 LAN)? Any other helpful
> hints?

You might be better off using py2exe and distributing the executables it 
generates.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 26 23:02:53 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:02:53 -0400
Subject: Single Instance of app
References: <9mbj7f01054@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9oj62s.1f4.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <3B89B85D.9B6898B1@engcorp.com>

Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> 
> import os
> user_dir = getuserdir()  # dunno how this is done on WinNT/2000
> lock_filename = user_dir + 'lock'
> if os.path.exists(lock_filename):
>     print "process already running"
>     sys.exit(1)
> lock_file = open(lock_filename, 'w')
> lock_file.write("%d\n" % os.getpid())
> lock_file.close()
> # go on about business as usual
> 
> This has worked for decades on *nix. <wink>  If it doesn't work on your
> OS, I'd like to know how you end up solving the problem.

Are you certain *that* particular pattern has worked for decades?
It looks like it has a classic synchronization problem, when 
two processes are started simultaneously and they both make it
past the os.path.exists() line before either executes the open()
statement.  Or is this just a risk people live with?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From hasi at rediffmail.com  Wed Aug 29 23:11:54 2001
From: hasi at rediffmail.com (Shashi Deepa Arcot)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:11:54 -0700
Subject: Gate Oxide thickness of CMOS
Message-ID: <69fbfcd3.0108291911.76f12106@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  I would like to know the following details for a CMOS
1.gate oxide thickness
2.The Number of masks
3.Number of transistors per chip

Thanks,
Hasi!


From geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu  Mon Aug 27 10:01:25 2001
From: geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Brian E Gallew)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:01:25 -0400
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>

Then <eli at udel.edu> spoke up and said:
> User-Agent: Pan/0.9.7 (Unix)
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.1.161.108
> 	I have a question about the ececl function from the os module. I was
> trying to write a script to untar a bunch of tarballs in a directory. The
> script looked like this
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import os
> 
> os.system("ls *.gz > data_file")
> 
> tar_file = open("data_file"), "r")
> 
> tar_array = tar_file.readlines()
> 
> for tarball in tar_array:
> 	os.execl("tar", "xzvf", tarball)
> 
> os.system("rm data_file")

That really won't do what you want it to do.  You probably want to do
something like this:

#! /usr/bin/env python
import os,glob

cmd = [ '/usr/bin/tar',
	'-x',
	'-z',
	'-f',
      ]

tar_file_list = glob.glob('*.tar.gz')

for tar_file in tar_file_list:
    if os.fork():
       os.wait()
    else:
       os.exec(cmd[0], cmd + [tar_file,])



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 02:35:50 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:35:50 GMT
Subject: abstract features
References: <mailman.997716920.22470.python-list@python.org> <r63gntgusivel7n51rdh2nmkvh6j1cjfe7@4ax.com> <9l954g01cpl@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <89hhntoaqhok150qcv4v5ue9vk9sg7svlq@4ax.com>

>One salespitch* I've used for Python is that it is so readable that experienced
>C programmers can read simple programs without knowing any Python at all. 
>However, when I've shown folks random, simple examples of code, it's always been
>hard to explain slices.  Still, slices are essential so they're hard to avoid,
>even in simple code.

When I first learned slices, I thought they were just plain radical. Python gets a lot
of things right. I like, for example, that when someone else writes some Python,
I'm likely to be able to read it. These are nice benefits, and I'm not knocking
Python. However, as Python grows, the essential minimalism that characterized
early Python will go (already has gone, somewhat) by the wayside. As this happens,
Python becomes less useful as a learning language.

It will, however, probably always be quite a bit better than C, even with an
abundancy of forms. And introductory texts can always save advanced
operations for later in the text.

The one thing that is essential is that Python doesn't become Perl. The number
of Perl programmers I know who've complained about not being able to read
and understand their _own_ code after not looking at it for a while practically
matches the number of Perl programmers I know. :) This has lead to the meme
that Perl is a "write only language".

Not good.

C//



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Wed Aug  1 18:56:10 2001
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:56:10 -0400
Subject: getting the culprit from an exception
References: <4620daca.0107281647.4a84a5c8@posting.google.com> <9k97ii0t2v@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B68890A.22D5A83E@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010801/2c56722e/attachment.html>

From rossi at earthling.net  Tue Aug 21 05:13:50 2001
From: rossi at earthling.net (Thorsten Roskowetz)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:13:50 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b260$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lt52501g6c@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lt8n7$bau$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

> some exhibition of hubris in that realm might also show
> you exactly why the very use of the word 'lame' as a generic
> insult, while alas all too common, is also insensitive and
> degrading to people who have problems walking...

Using "lame" as a way of describing something as "lacking
needful or desirable substance" <a lame excuse> is not only
common but a perfectly acceptable use of the word (Webster
does not list this as slang).  Might not fit everyones taste
for political correctness though...

Cheers,

Thorsten




From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 06:10:26 2001
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:10:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

In article <9mfm1l$gs3$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl>, 
piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki) wrote:

> How can I tell python to give me only 2 digits after decimal point? And
> of course store it in a variable.
> 
> So I want 'c' to be 3.33.

c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)


                      Graham



From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug  5 16:25:33 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:25:33 GMT
Subject: Installing module: import error "No module named 'new'"
References: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com> <mailman.997040710.1734.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mlarmtca86f458ckvulgnjnkj25de37p3a@4ax.com>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:46:17 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.997040710.1734.python-list at python.org>:

:(I've no idea how you'd coax Windows into building it for
:you.)

Hmm. Ick. That probably requires grabbing the source and compiling it
oneself. My understanding is that Python requires VC++ to compile.
(Compiling Python is probably a bit of a stretch for me on Windows...of
course I've done it on Linux and have to do it again in another week or
two when the server I'm using upgrades the core and gets a newer version
of gclib.)

I'm a bit leery of using modules that require stuff like this that isn't
default. I want to be able to distribute my code, and if most people are
going to have "new" available to them, then a module that uses it isn't
easy to distribute.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 21:16:48 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:16:48 GMT
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <3B71D7E2.7EEAF170@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <4wlc7.138859$um3.839725@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B71D7E2.7EEAF170 at engcorp.com...
> Jeremy Jones wrote:
>
> I don't think I got a clear enough idea from your
> posting to know what it is you really want (i.e.
> you could describe what *purpose* you have in mind,
> rather than describing a set of features you think
> you need).

I have a web application that I need to test by HTTP posting different sets
of data to it.  The hierarchical data model that I want to create will allow
me to create different sets of tests each containing different sequences of
data to post to the server and store the results of the test.  I want to be
able to navigate through this hierarchical set of data using Tix.Tree.
(Plus, it will be fun and cool and really geeky! :-)

> Nevertheless, a lot of what you refer to above
> seems to be provided by the Document Object Model
> (DOM) concept available effectively universally
> for in-memory manipulation of XML data.  Since
> XML (at least in a DOM) seems to provide the
> basic features you describe above, maybe it could
> in some way help you...  ??

I will have to check out DOM tomorrow and see if it will help or not.  I
have never messed around with XML, but I had actually thought about defining
my tests in XML (another fun, cool, geeky thing to do) and parsing it with
Python.  Is it fairly straightforward to keep the hierarchical structure of
an XML/DOM document so that you can navigate down it (particularly in this
instance - using a Tree widget)?

Jeremy Jones




From web.mail at lycos.com  Fri Aug 17 00:46:35 2001
From: web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:46:35 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
Message-ID: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>

I've been looking at Python IDEs over the last week, and this is what
I've found. On the theory that other people might be interested, here
are the results...

1. IDLE - comes with the standard Python distribution. USD0.00

2. IDLEfork <http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/> "just like IDLE, only
crunchy". An experimental fork of IDLE. USD0.00

3. PythonWin - comes with ActiveState Python. Based on IDLE. Has a
couple of nice, extra features, but basically the same animal. USD0.00

4. Komodo - ActiveState's cross-language IDE. Looks like it would be
really cool if you were working on a Perl/Python/XSLT/PHP system.
Otherwise, PythonWin probably does what you want. USD295 a throw.

5. PythonWorks Pro - from SecretLabs. Very cool looking IDE. Has a
layout editor for Tk. USD395 a seat. Might take a few days to get the
hang of.
<http://www.secretlabs.com/products/works/index.htm>

6. BlackAdder - from TheKompany. Has all of the features of IDLE +
support for Ruby + GUI editor for Qt.
<http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/> USD250 a go.

7. VisualPython - from ActiveState. A Python plug-in for Visual
Studio.NET Beta 2. Still in Beta itself. USD0.00 at the moment.

All of these IDEs have a debugger. None support multi-threaded
debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.

Despite these IDE's, it seems that most Python developers use a text
editor to program Python. Here are three theories about this:

a. Python is the kind of language that doesn't need a lot of tool
support.

b. The IDEs that are there are fairly primitive compared to VC++ (the
yardstick against which all other IDEs seem to be measured)

c. Python programmers are the kind of people that don't use IDEs.

If you develop or sell or otherwise know of a Python IDE that is not
listed, please feel free to chime in. If I have listed your IDE, but
missed out an amazing feature, please mail me ('avgreen' at 'avaya'
dot 'com'), and I'll summarise to the list.

Cheers,

Alan.


From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 13 05:58:22 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:58:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <q2Jd7.28672$c8.9128118@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108130446130.12006-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Rainer Deyke wrote:

> "Glyph Lefkowitz" <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997671441.2464.python-list at python.org...
> > Let me underscore this once, and put it in the terms I think of it in:
> > with these changes, you will be introducing the worst design error of C++
> > into Python.  Indeed, the _central_ problem with C++ is that it always
> > prefers efficiency over dynamism, even in its so-called "high level"
> > features.
> 
> I strongly disagree here.  Quite aside from the efficiency issue, C++'s lack
> of dynamism is a feature, not a bug.  (This does not change the fact that
> C++ is an unholy mess.)  Such a feature would not be appropriate for Python,
> however.

Perhaps I should have put it differently -- the central design error of
C++ *as a high level language*.  (The design failures as a low-level
language are quite discrete, of course.)  Python is certainly not and will
never be suitable for low-level, let alone "systems" programming, so yes,
such a feature is inappropriate.

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Fri Aug 17 10:12:08 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:12:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B7961E3.B62804C3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru> <n7pbl9.id2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <slrn9nq9hn.jn1.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:04:39 +0200, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>What I hate about wxPython is that it's quite frustrating to just try things
>out in the interactive Python interpreter. Every few lines I get Segmentation
>Faults when I do this.

 What kind of things? Maybe you just found a bug? If so, why not report it?

 Regards,
VZ
-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From adrian_p_smith at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 11:13:49 2001
From: adrian_p_smith at yahoo.com (Adrian Smith)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 08:13:49 -0700
Subject: strange list behaviour in 2.1.1
Message-ID: <b9ae8e0f.0108050713.16408c16@posting.google.com>

There is a mysterious thing. I wish to take a string from the end of
one list to the beginning of another, as one might. If I do it
interactively by hand, with two lists called 'first' and 'second':

>>> second = [first[-1]] + second
>>> del first[-1]

...it works fine, but if I put it in a procedure, and call it with the
parameters 'first' and 'second':

def overflow(firstlist, secondlist):
    secondlist = [firstlist[-1]] + secondlist
    del firstlist[-1]

...the last element of 'first' gets deleted, but 'second' remains
unaltered. Is there some strange aspect of list assignment I'm
overlooking here?

--
Adrian Smith


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug 31 13:09:17 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 17:09:17 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <mailman.999188627.14084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9ovh5t.4r5.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:20:56 -0400 (EDT), Steven D. Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> pisze:

> It's extremely ambiguous. 
> 
> What does:
> 	"e1 e2 e3 e4 e5" 
> mean when more than one of those e's is a function ? 
> Can you tell which ones represent function calls if you don't
> know the value of all of the e's ? 

I'm experimenting with a syntax with parenthesesless function calls for
another language. It works and it's self-consistent, doesn't require
context-dependent parsing or semantic translation, but I had to pay
with the following:

- Calling a function returned by a function or held in a variable
  requires a different syntax than calling a plain named function.
  There is an explicit "call" operator there.

- Passing a plain named function as an argument requires a different
  syntax than passing an object returned by a function or held in
  a variable. There is an explicit "reference" operator there (the
  same operator is a restricted variant of "lambda").

This is done by having two mutually recursive "levels" of semantics
of object-like things: identifiers are bound to functions and
expressions denote functions, functions return objects, objects
may denote functions.

Reading a variable is unified with calling a function (a variable
name denotes a function which, when called without parameters,
returns the current value of the variable).

In this language "e1 e2 e3 e4 e5" means calling function e1 with
arguments e2..e5. Unless e1 does something special, the functions
e2..e5 are called once (which boils down to reading their values
in case they are really variables).

I don't know how to dress this language with Python-like function
call syntax or vice versa. Semantic splitting of functions/objects
requires syntactic support and vice versa.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 04:30:39 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:30:39 +0100
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <1a517b5.0108281212.1cb930c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4O1PEhAvgKj7EwqO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In Tcl land, these problems caused the powers that be to implement their
own indirection scheme. Effectively the extension is passed a pointer to
a list of pointers. The extension indirects through them to get at the
real api. They have various rules to make things work reasonably when
pointers get added/subtracted to the real API. Seems to work quite well,
but there's a fixed time and space penalty.

The windows problem comes because the name of the main Python dll is
embedded in the extension. I've never been too sure exactly how linking
takes place with win32, probably because the dll idea changed between
traditional windows and win32.

One possible way to extend the life of an API compatible extension would
be to use an intermediate stub proxy for the original python dll. So the
extension

X.pyd links to Python20.dll

Python21.dll is issued along with a stub proxy for all of the 20 API
points this is called naturally enough Python20.dll, but would really be
an indirection vector.

then X.pyd links to Python20.dll (proxy) which links to Python21.dll.

Of course this scheme would get terribly confusing and awful as soon as
newer Pythonxx.dlls appear (alongside their own proxies). Perhaps the
proxy could be made smart enough to search out and link itself to the
available Python API.
-just adding to DLL hell-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 14:46:39 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:46:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
In-Reply-To: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251443480.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 25 Aug 2001, Sandy Norton wrote:

> Please excuse me if this is a dumb comment that has been made before.
>
> Recently, I was rather surprised by the following behavior:
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> lst = [1,2,3]
> >>> sublst = [1,2]
> >>> sublst in lst
> 0
>
> I am sure there's a good reason why it would be considered unpythonic
> for the above to return 1... I just can't get my puny brain to figure
> it out right now.
> I guess a function such as issublist(sublst, lst) would be more
> appropriate:
>
> >>> def issublist(sublst, lst):
> 	for item in sublst:
> 		if item not in lst: return 0
> 	return 1
>
> >>> issublist([1,2], [1,2,3])
> 1
> >>> issublist([1,4], [1,2,3])
> 0
>
>
> regards,
>
>
> Sandy

from the Python Language Reference:

"For the list and tuple types, x in y is true if and only if there exists an
index i such that x == y[i] is true."

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Aug 14 17:53:57 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:53:57 -0700
Subject: PIL decoder error -2?
Message-ID: <3B799DF5.569C05DC@alcyone.com>

I am now getting decoder error -2 whenever I try to load an image in
PIL, regardless of the format or image.  I'm very sure this wasn't
happening before, but honestly can't fathom what has changed.  Here's
the relevant stack trace:

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/PIL/Image.py", line 634,
in resize
    self.load()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/PIL/ImageFile.py", line
161, in load
    raise IOError, "decoder error %d when reading image file" % e
IOError: decoder error -2 when reading image file

Any ideas?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Who, my friend, can scale Heaven?
\__/ _The Epic of Gilgamesh_
    Product's Quake III Arena Tips / http://www.bosskey.net/
 Tips and tricks from the absolute beginner to the Arena Master.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 16:16:29 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:16:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
In-Reply-To: <01082821520204.01485@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281610560.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Chachkoff Yann wrote:

>  I know that this may be quite a common question, but since I was unable to
>  find the answer, I ask :
>
>   [snip]
>
>  I get the following error:
>  ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.0/lib-dynload/structmodule.so: undefined
>  symbol: PyString_Type
>
>  Following my searches, it seems that I need to tell the linker to export
>  all symbols of the dynamic symbol table, so I tried to add -export-dynamic
>  (or -E) in the main making line, but it does not work. What should I do ?
>  Anyone has an idea ?
>
>  Chachkoff Y.

Section 5.2 of the Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter says:

"The problem is that some entry points are defined by the Python runtime
solely for extension modules to use. If the embedding application does not use
any of these entry points, some linkers will not include those entries in the
symbol table of the finished executable. Some additional options are needed to
inform the linker not to remove these symbols.

Determining the right options to use for any given platform can be quite
difficult, but fortunately the Python configuration already has those values.
To retrieve them from an installed Python interpreter, start an interactive
interpreter and have a short session like this:

      >>> import distutils.sysconfig
      >>> distutils.sysconfig.get_config_var('LINKFORSHARED')
      '-Xlinker -export-dynamic'

The contents of the string presented will be the options that should be used.
If the string is empty, there's no need to add any additional options. The
LINKFORSHARED definition corresponds to the variable of the same name in
Python's top-level Makefile."

The '-Xlinker' tells gcc to pass '-export-dynamic' to ld. gcc itself seems to
ignore it otherwise.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 06:15:49 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:15:49 +0200
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com> <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com> <3b707aa4.591122937@news.supernews.com> <yoxk80f86lf.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <9kqvmm01udp@enews1.newsguy.com> <m2itfyw0r3.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <9ktnsk021ck@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Foley" <see at below> wrote in message
news:m2itfyw0r3.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz...
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:10:47 +0200, Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> > This will blow up if alist isn't a proper lisp-ish list, as
> > build with "def cons(car,cdr): return car, cdr" and a () (or
>
> Tuples are immutable.  [conses aren't]

Right, not in Lisp (nor Scheme) -- that's what one gets from
dabbling in FP (immutable-data rules!-) and not practising any
Lisp (nor Scheme) for too long.  You do need to correct my def
of cons to:
    def cons(car, cdr): return [car,cdr]
if you want to be able to modify the car and/or cdr of
a cons cell, obviously.


> > Python does no tail-recursion optimization, and well-written
>
> Neither does Lisp.  Well, most Common Lisp implementations do, with
> appropriate (non-default) optimisation settings, but it's not required
> and a bad idea to rely on it.  [Inappropriate use of cdr recursion is
> a good way to detect those conniving Schemers :-)]

I'll have to confess to being a schemer, having been detected,
but I was sure there was documented tail-recursion optimization
in some Lisp I used back in the dark ages (late-70's) -- maybe
it's a false-memory.


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 12 22:49:12 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:49:12 -0400
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org> <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com> <mailman.997661119.7045.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B774028.A058EDE4@engcorp.com>

William Park wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 07:45:15PM -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Anything wrong with this, simpler, approach?
> >
> > >>> for x in a.keys():
> > ...     print '%s%s' % (x, a[x])
> 
> This is better solution.  But, for educational purpose, in the original
> code, 'type()' returns special type values, not a regular string.  So,
> what your want is
>     type(a[x]) != type("")

Yes, obviously, of course, as both the responses preceding 
mine also clearly pointed out.

The original poster indicated he was new both to Python and
to programming, however, so it seemed very likely he believed
the complicated approach he was taking was necessary to 
get the behaviour he wanted.  Neither previous reply attempted 
to show him a better way, so I thought I might be adding
something of value by doing so (rather than just repeating
what the other two posts before mine had already said).

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:54:38 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:54:38 +0200
Subject: embed python in C++
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000@aludra.usc.edu>
Message-ID: <9ktmkt020cq@enews1.newsguy.com>

"wkuang" <wkuang at aludra.usc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000 at aludra.usc.edu...
> hi,
>
> I am interested in having an interpreter handling my c++ program
> input/output to add some flexibility, and someone tells me python maybe
> one. I searched through python website and unfortanetly got little
> information other than a page saying python could be embeded in C++
> program. I am wondering if it is possible to have my c++ program read
> memory that python generated. For example,
    ...
> Is there any book or website that elaborate embedding stuff? And any

If your C++ compiler is up to snuff, check out www.boost.org, and
specifically the Boost Python Library: it makes it very easy to
expose your program's classes to Python (that's the "extending"
part of the "extending and embedding" paradigm).  Once you have
that, the embedding proper is quite simple, and pretty well
documented e.g. at http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html
(which however focuses on the C-level approaches; Boost Python
uses the most advanced C++ functionality, particularly templates,
to let you do similar extending-things MUCH more smoothly:-).

If your C++ compiler isn't very good & updated, there are other
approaches to exposing your application functionality to the
scripting language -- the C-level Python API at the above URL,
SWIG at http://www.swig.org/, CXX (if you have a decent but
not really good C++ compiler) http://cxx.sourceforge.net/, and
others yet.  Note that all of these focus on the hard part,
extending -- embedding itself is much simpler, as
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/embedding.html says
"The one important task that only embedders (as opposed to extension
writers) of the Python interpreter have to worry about is the
initialization, and possibly the finalization, of the Python interpreter".

For a simple example of embedding, see also
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/embed.html (seems to be down
right now, but try Google at:
http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&q=embedding+python
it will be about the 7th hit and you can visit the
'Cached' entry to read it).


Alex





From cliechti at mails.ch  Wed Aug  8 16:22:58 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 22:22:58 +0200
Subject: windows development in python?
References: <997286691.890518@news2.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <Xns90F7E45EA61ECcliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

"Steinar" <st-aude at online.no> wrote in 
news:997286691.890518 at news2.cybercity.dk:
> I have made a lot of small programs in python, but how do I make windows
> programs?

what do you want? programms that look like native windows apps? i saw a 
good anser for that in this thread.

if you want ".exe" files, try "py2exe"
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/


-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Fri Aug  3 14:59:42 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 11:59:42 -0700
Subject: Q: Code Review Checklist?
References: <20010803.140710.7684930.2921@albert.lindeverlag.at>
Message-ID: <9kesau$4h4$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <20010803.140710.7684930.2921 at albert.lindeverlag.at>,
Albert Brandl <albert.brandl at lindeverlag.at> wrote:
>Hi, all!
>
>I've just stumbled across the Personal Software Process and its Code
>Review Checklist. While this checklist seems quite helpful for reviewing
>C code, it does not quite fit Python ("Check that all strings are
>identified by pointers and terminated in NULL"...).
>
>I'd like to know if somebody uses a similar list which has been tailored
>to the needs of Python. If yes: could you share it with us?

"Look at the code.  Grok the code.  If it doesn't look right, rewrite it."

;) ;)

Seriously, I'd be interested too...

--t


From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Mon Aug 20 08:32:35 2001
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:32:35 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.997974567.2791.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8103fc$0$76934$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>

"Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote:
> "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:
>
> > Another option would be to add a new infix operator to the language
> > with the same precedence as /. Something with a long clunky name, like
> > "__oldstyle_divide__", whose only raison d'?tre is compatibility
> > hacks. Changing
> >     E1 / E2
> > to
> >     E1 __oldstyle_divide__ E2
> > doesn't require deep parsing.
>
> Do you really want to replace things like
>
>     """...text and/or more text..."""
>
> by
>
>     """...text and__oldstyle_divide__or more text..."""

No.  You can tell / division apart from / in comments and strings by
means of lexical analysis, which is much simpler than a full parse for
a syntactically clean language such as Python.

> OTOH, literal strings like "period / 2" might need replacement.

Well, only if used, directly or indirectly, with 'exec' or 'eval'.
Like doctest code.  Not a big problem though AFAICT.  Leave it
untouched, and if the tests get run then the test failure should alert
someone that the code needs fixing, and if the tests don't get run
everything will work fine.

>And
> how about comments?

Comments would be left untouched.

might-even-volunteer-to-do-the-job-myself-ly-y'rs,
Anders




From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Aug  3 16:27:38 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
In-Reply-To: <VfDa7.66745$EP6.15377445@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108031620440.334-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> I noticed the same.   A genpipe wrapping rclass would give us the very
> clear:
> 
> for f in gen(Files('.')).Test(isGif).Count(20)
> 
> My untested idea for genpipe:
    >========<

Thanks, Terry. 
Tested and corrected:

> 
> class genpipe:
>   def __init__(self, generator):
>     self.gen = generator #sanity check omitted
>   def Test(self, pred):
>     self.gen = _Test(self.gen, pred) # ditto for Count and other

-->	return self

> filters
>   def __iter__(self):

-->	return self.gen

##>     return self.gen.next


>>> for x in Genpipe( Files('.')).Test( isGif ).Count(10):
...     print x
... 
./aaTristan/usd.gif
./aaTristan/welcome_dude2.gif
./Desktop/coffee-bg.gif
./Desktop/New Dowloads/xlsappdoc/data-classes.GIF
./Desktop/New Dowloads/xlsappdoc/graph-overlay-classes.GIF
./Desktop/sdm7g-3.GIF
./Documents/Dilbert/941202.gif
./Documents/Dilbert/adding-staff.gif
./Documents/Dilbert/behind-schedule.gif
./Documents/Dilbert/d941231.gif


-- Steve 




From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Tue Aug  7 10:03:24 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:03:24 -0400
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
In-Reply-To: <8afvmt8ck86d7ug5clnu3h0qek4hb7ope0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLAEHCCDAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Yeah, Python has a built-in regexp module.  I usually use something like:

workRE=re.compile('...')
def f(s):
	...
	workRE.search(s)
	...

Python doesn't have an implicit re operator like Perl or Ruby but I prefer
this.  RE in any language can be expensive if not done right and I like the
fact that I can't be cavalier about just tossing in another RE because it's
convenient.  Plus, in Python one can even pull a RE out of a module and test
it in the interactive interpreter, aiding in performance tuning.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.  As others have said, your milage may
vary.

Rich


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Tom Robinson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 6:08 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play
> too?)
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:01:24 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"Phil Tomson" <ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message
> >news:X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673 at e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
> >    ...
> >> Questions for the Ruby community to ponder: What sorts of
> features do we
> >> need that might be unique to Ruby?  [One that comes to mind:
> the ability
> >> to extend an existing class.]  For the
> >
> >In what sense is this "unique to Ruby"?  The following works in Python:
>
> <code>
>
> ># and now you can call anInstance.two(), having
> ># extended existing class Existing "after the
> ># fact" -- already-created instances also get
> ># to use the 'extensions' to the class.
>
> He might be talking about the way you can reopen and extend existing
> _built_in_ classes in Ruby, for example:
>
> class Regexp
>   alias oldcomp =~
>   def =~ (astring)
>      match(astring)[1..9]
>   end
> end
>
> ...Regexp being part of the standard library.  Can you do this in
> Python?  It would be nice...
>
> --
> tom at alkali.spamfree.org
> remove 'spamfree.' to respond
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 31 14:45:30 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:45:30 -0700
Subject: Python descendant to Perl?
References: <mailman.999279407.2366.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xlmk0oyph.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> Perl's OO features were added later in Perl's life, and Larry Wall studied
> Python's object model closely before designing Perl's (they have a lot in
> common under the covers!).
> 
> WRT the diagram, Smalltalk really had scant *direct* influence on Python; it
> would be better if it showed Python inheriting from Modula3 instead (which
> latter should surely be *somewhere* on the diagram; and Java should descend
> in part from Modula3 too).

A language with a lot of resemblance (possibly coincidental) to Python
is the sometimes-unfairly-maligned Javascript.  Python is in some ways
a grown-up version of Javascript, with more features for writing large
applications.  The object models are quite similar though.


From relfx at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 02:56:07 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:56:07 -0400
Subject: Python Books 
Message-ID: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I was wandering if anyone here read the few books that are out there for
python. Lately the only set of books i have seen that give alot of info are
the O'Reilly editions such Learning and Programming with python.

    Are these books the best to have considering I'm still moving up the
ladder of programming? Also are there going to more publications to support
python programming?





From camara at home.com  Tue Aug 14 23:39:07 2001
From: camara at home.com (John M. Camara)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:39:07 -0700
Subject: Unable to import dll extension that relies on a second dll
Message-ID: <9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58@posting.google.com>

I have not been able to create a Python extension in Windows 
that requires a call to a function in another dll.  In the 
simplified example below a function called foo in extension.dll 
calls bar a function in supporting.dll.  I used SWIG to wrap the 
functions in extension.dll and compiled both dlls in Borland C++ 
Builder 5.  When I try to import the extension I get an import 
error stating that the module could not be found.

If I change foo so that it does not depend on the supporting.dll, 
the extension imports just fine.  I know I must be doing something 
wrong as I should be able to call a function in another dll in the 
extension wihout any problems.  Any ideas?

/*** start of extension.dll **/

extern "C" __declspec(dllimport) float bar(float x);

float fun1(float x)
  {
    ...
    return ...
  }

float fun2(float x)
  {
    ...
    return ...
  }

...

float foo(float x)
  {
    return bar(x);
  }

/*** end of extension.dll ***/

/*** start of supporting.dll ***/

extern "C" __declspec(dllexport) float bar(float x)
  {
    ...
    return ...
  }

/*** end of supporting.dll ***/


From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Sat Aug  4 16:26:37 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 13:26:37 -0700
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <e840346c.0108010251.1eea5ea0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9khlpt$911$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <e840346c.0108010251.1eea5ea0 at posting.google.com>,
Mark Brady <kalath at lycos.com> wrote:
>I noticed in your article you want to use a standalone version of
>ZODB, see here http://www.amk.ca/zodb/ for all you need (This is the
>first result returned by google on zodb so maybe google would be a
>good place for you to look for the other parts of ZOPE you need). Read
>the ZODB docs on the link I posted for a great intro to ZODB and the
>download section contains the standalone version of ZODB. Hope this
>helps.

Yeah, Andrew put this up about half a year after I wrote the ZIE666 page.
I downloaded it & followed the instructions, and got package import
errors.  *shrug*  Perhaps I'll try again some day ;).

--titus


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 14 10:43:01 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 07:43:01 -0700
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lbddl$bn$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9lan1301822 at enews1.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>"Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
>>
>> Oops!  Very true.  I should have rewritten it as
>>
>>     e = 'wow'
>>     b,c,d = 'wow'
>>     a = 'wow'
>>
>> Hmm.  The argument about obfuscation versus repetition comes more clearly
>> into focus.  I still think multiple assignment is a bad thing...
>
>So now consider:
>
>    y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
>
>How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
>that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
>temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)

So?  Doing tuple packing and unpacking in the middle of a multiple
assignment statement is error-prone for maintenance.  Get someone who
doesn't understand *precisely* what the above is doing, and your code
will likely malfunction under change.  I certainly wouldn't understand
it without a lot of checking, and I might well make a casual mistake if
I *thought* I understood it.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

Internet $tartup$: Arbeit ueber alles  


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Fri Aug 10 11:00:26 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:00:26 +0200
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
Message-ID: <3B9EC56D@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> =====
>Ok, I've been banging my head against this for a sufficiently long time
>that I feel justified in presenting this personal challenge to the list.
>
>How do you make a swap function?

You don't need to. :)  Use:

  a, b = b, a

>How do you make a function or a callable object instance that will do
>what the following code intends to do:
>
>   def swap (heaven, hell) :
>           purgatory = heaven
>           heaven = hell
>           hell = purgatory

Python's internal workings are very different from languages like C and 
Pascal. A Python "variable" is not a location in memory that you can fill with 
arbitrary data. This Pascal code:

  X := 3;
  X := 42;

changes the value of X, which resides at a certain location in memory. But the 
equivalent Python code

  x = 3
  x = 42

does not do exactly the same; rather, it binds the name 'x' to the value 3, 
then rebinds that name to the value 42. Other people explain this better than 
me; see

  http://w1.132.telia.com/~u13212494/guides/python-objects.htm

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 23 09:54:27 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:54:27 -0500
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com> <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <to7dejr8jk4e87@corp.supernews.com> <FSWg7.1085$54.66815@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3B848DEC.386015D3@theworld.com> <toa29fnj9ueqd0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <toa2r3np7dku34@corp.supernews.com>

Correction:
I said -

>In this way, the clients do not have to have Python or a Python
> plugin installed on their PC's.  This engine needs a Windows environment
by
> the way

It should be:
>In this way, the clients do not have to have Python or a Python
> plugin installed on their PC's.  This engine needs a ***SERVER*** Windows
environment by
> the way (but it can be any client that can run a browser)
Maan




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 12:58:55 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:58:55 -0500
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271930340.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271111390.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
        <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271930340.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15242.31823.671530.372011@beluga.mojam.com>


    Roman> How people compile Python 2.1.1 from src.rpm on not-so-ancient
    Roman> RedHat 6.2 (without tricks)???

Checked into CVS is a slight modification of setup.py that may help you
compile on a system with potentially multiple versions of libdb.  Attached
is a context diff.  Feedback on whether or not this helps people would be
appreciated.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: setup.diff
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 850 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010827/7cf88555/attachment.obj>

From dougfort at dougfort.net  Thu Aug  2 10:41:21 2001
From: dougfort at dougfort.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 15:41:21 +0100
Subject: Zope
References: <08da7.3095$e%4.90891@news3.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <3b69668f$1_7@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Roar Johansen wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I've resently begun to learn Zope (and therefore Phyton). My question: Is
> there any newsgroup aimed at Zope?
> 
> Roar Johansen
> 
> 
> 
Check out http://www.zope.org

Also, I'm working my way through the New Riders' Zope  book and I find it 
really helpful.
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From new_name at mit.edu  Tue Aug 14 11:10:59 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:10:59 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997728501.21397.python-list@python.org> <874rrbo6bl.fsf@ghostwheel.dhis.net>
Message-ID: <etdvgjqu16k.fsf@w20-575-7.mit.edu>

> meanwhile-perl6-is-looking-better-all-the-time'ly-yrs,

Is perl 6 available for download somewhere?

Alex.


From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Wed Aug 22 16:37:12 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:37:12 -0700
Subject: vi % alternive command
Message-ID: <3B8417F8.1B469E91@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

Hello all,

In vi the "%" command will jump to the closing or openeing (,{,[, etc. 
This is helpful to find the end of blocks (if blocks, function blocks,
etc).  Has anyone figured out and equivalent commend for vi/vim to jump
to the end/beginning of a block?  Thanks.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Sat Aug 11 13:54:37 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:54:37 -0700
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net> <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <100820011208059612%joe@strout.net> <kusnezb0f0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <110820010905296049%joe@strout.net> <3B7563CD.D41BCC97@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <3B75715D.17C4BEFD@ActiveState.com>

Just van Rossum wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> How would PCRE ever be able to match groups of characters above code
> point 127, that are represented as more than one byte in utf-8? Or is
> that a limitation you decided to live with?

You would just match on the byte-patterns you expect. I think that's
more or less how Perl Unicode works.
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From timr at probo.com  Tue Aug 28 02:28:22 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:28:22 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 ... stupid error in import.c
References: <9m609h02ca2@drn.newsguy.com> <9mbav20t5p@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cfemot4r807ndre9a3c0lrs02r53nb4aec@4ax.com>

Armin Steinhoff <Armin_member at newsguy.com> wrote:

>In article <9m609h02ca2 at drn.newsguy.com>, Armin says...
>
>To make it clear ... after some repair actions regarding the directory structure
>of the source and binary installation, Python 2.1.1 compiles flawless and I have
>now a working version 2.1.1 with thread and shared object support for QNX6.
>Great!

Then please ignore my previous message, sent 30 seconds ago.  I should have
read the entire thread before replying.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug 22 19:53:31 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:53:31 GMT
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <3b8438f6.196472081@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:08:25 +0200, Dietmar Lang <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote:

>
>Greetings, fellow Pythoneers,
>
>I am currently working on an application that works with a simple, but
>relatively large data structure: a large list, with its items being
>strings, 3-4 lines long each.
>
>Now the list is shelved and I am accessing its items pretty randomly.
>I've found the access times to be rather slow. So my questions are:
>
>- Would using a dictionary make access faster?
>
>- Is there a faster method for saving and accessing my stuff?
>
>- Would saving the data as one big text file with separators/indexes and
>a good search algorithm be faster? (Since my strings won't exceed a
>certain length, maybe defining a max size for each item and then seeking
>into the file with, say, 5-line distances?)
>
If you don't want to use Aahz's database suggestion, you could do something
with a file as you mention, but I am wondering what you are using as a key to
selecting a particular string, or if there might be more than one key to
the same string.

One idea would be to write all the strings end to end into a file, and
store their start byte positions and lengths as tuple values for keys in a dictionary,
somethin like

    ### warning -- untested
    stringDict = {}
    f = open('stringfile','wb')	# binary is better for accurate seeking on windows

    # ... loop to write strings to file:
    str = 'example string number three, or whatever'
    stringKey = 3 # or whatever
    stringFilePosition = f.tell()
    stringLength = len(str)
    f.write(str)
    stringDict[stringKey] = (stringFilePosition, stringLength)
    # ...

    f.close()

You could do this using numeric sequential keys, or using anything immutable for keys.

Then to get a string, just do

    ### warning -- untested
    f = open('stringfile','rb')
    stringKey = 5 # whatever you're looking for
    f.seek(stringDict[stringKey][0])
    str = f.read(stringDict[stringKey][1])
    f.close()

(Or keep the file open if you are doing a bunch).
It shouldn't take more than a few milliseconds to get any string.

If you have a really huge set of strings, you could store them in multiple files
and add a file id character to the tuple, to know which file to open. Or you could
have a separate dictionary for each file, where knowing which dictionary to use would
be easy if the key were numeric. If you just have your strings sequentially numbered
and don't use any other key, you could just index into a list or lists, instead of
using a dictionary.

Lots of ways to skin the cat. You could also consider compressing in various ways, if
you have huge amounts of data. But try the dead simple thing first. The above should be close,
and you can try it in a few minutes.

You could also make a handy class to instantiate with a file name, and have methods for
retrieving and/or adding strings with various keys. It could pickle its stringDict under a name
like the stringfile with a different extension or something. If you add a special delimiter
character ('\x00' ?) at the end of strings in your file, you will have a more robust system
for re-indexing without going back to original sources. If you do, don't include it in the
string length in the tuple, so it won't be included in the string you read back.

HTH



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Aug  6 13:53:57 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 13:53:57 -0400
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <9kmb5l012mf@enews4.newsguy.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
	<mailman.997037168.27615.python-list@python.org>
	<9klek202s3b@enews4.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.997103177.15032.python-list@python.org>
	<9kmb5l012mf@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <oqu1zlnkga.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Alex Martelli]

> The 'automatic' parallelizers needed so much hand-holding and source
> tweaking to work halfway-right that it was much less work to structure
> the parallel-computation aspects explicitly (well, on a FEW big CPU's,
> at least; I had no real experience with arrays of a LOT of middling CPU's).

My own experience was with Cray FORTRAN.  It is true that there were
many functions you could use to have better control over how things were
generated.  Your whole DO loops needed to be rather simple if you wanted
them to be turned automatically into a few vector instructions.

> > P.S. - Some people, when confronted to fuzzy logic,
> > inference engines, expert systems, continuations, provers, etc., become
> > so excited that [...]

> I'm not sure what continuations (such sweet little things they are!-)
> are doing on this list, actually:-).

Of course, continuations are interesting devices, like inference engines,
etc.  My point is that continuations, and the rest, easily gets abused
into gratuitous cleverness, which is often over-praised in AI programming.

Expert systems once had wide shoulders, and were an excuse for the disorderly
accumulation of knowledge.  People had the impression of doing AI with them,
because they could write expert systems with unpredictable behavior! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 31 20:16:23 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:16:23 -0700
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
References: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no> <9mnse0$knh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <9mp27s$mob$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <3B9017FC.F2758CCC@ccvcorp.com> <9mp61a$mf8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3B9028D7.92814D20@ccvcorp.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Jeff Shannon wrote:
>
> >    "Testing ...  %(one) %(two) %(test)" % trap
> >ValueError: incomplete format
>
> Should be
>      "Testing ...  %(one)s %(two)d %(test)f" % trap
>                         ^^^     ^^^      ^^^

oh, hell.  >smacks forehead<   Guess I should pay more attention to what
I'm doing before I tell someone else they're wrong, eh?  Makes me really
wish my socks tasted better, what with how often I'm ending up with them in
my mouth...  <wink>

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug  1 17:21:28 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 14:21:28 -0700
Subject: Poul Anderson (was Re: Frank Willison)
References: <mailman.996583393.15643.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k9rso$eip$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.996583393.15643.python-list at python.org>,
Paul Prescod  <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:
>
>The Python world has lost a great friend in Frank Willison. Frank died
>yesterday of a massive heart attack.

Not directly related to Python, but it's shaping up to be a bad week.
Poul Anderson died last night:
http://www.catch22.com/SF/ARB/SFA/Anderson,Poul.php3
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From hove at phys.ntnu.no  Wed Aug 15 04:59:18 2001
From: hove at phys.ntnu.no (Joakim Hove)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:59:18 +0200
Subject: Build problems on IRIX (TRIX)
Message-ID: <k0ny9olpul5.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>

Hello,

i have problems building the shared object files on IRIX computer, the
build failes with the following error message (example shows the
attempt to build fpectl.so - but it fails on all shared object files):

  ld -shared -all build/temp.irix64-6.5-2.1/fpectlmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -o build/lib.irix64-6.5-2.1/fpectl.so
  ld32: ERROR   48 : Cannot access registry file ./so_locations (No locks available) - ignored.
  ld32: FATAL   51 : Can't assign virtual addresses for fpectl.so of size 10000 within specified range.  Please check your registry file ./so_locations.
  WARNING: building of extension "fpectl" failed: command 'ld' failed with exit status 4

I don't know if this matters, but the computer in question is running
TRIX (Trusted IRIX) which is a "security hardened" version of IRIX.

I'd be most grateful for any suggestions.

Regards Joakim



-- 
==== Joakim Hove      www.phys.ntnu.no/~hove/   =======================
|| Institutt for fysikk  (735) 93637 / E3-166  |  Sk?yensgate 10D    ||
|| N - 7491 Trondheim    hove at phys.ntnu.no     |  N - 7030 Trondheim ||
================================================= 73 93 31 68 =========


From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Thu Aug 30 20:33:56 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:33:56 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <UXAj7.410578$T97.48646737@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> menulis:
| 
| I came up on the idea during work with my now multithreaded webserver.
| In singlethreaded mode, I redirected sys.stdout to the socket (or
| rather, a cache to be written to that socket) and used print
| statements to nicely generate webpages. Now, in multithreaded mode I
| need a context for the output, so I have to call a function instead;
| which meant that I had to not only replace "print" by "context.write",
| but also enclose the arguments in brackets.

I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet, but if your socket-cache
object is a file-like object (i.e. it implements the methods described
at http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/bltin-file-objects.html) then
you can do the following (where "obj" is your cache object):

print >>obj, "stuff to send to the socket"
print >>obj, "more stuff"

You can use this form of the print statement to print to any file (or
even to things like StringIO which implement the file object
interface, but aren't real files) without having to reassign sys.stdout.


-- 
Cliff Crawford    ::    http://www.sowrong.org/
"Sheila can keep the balloons away."  -- Thomas


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 04:02:22 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:02:22 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Getting User Name With Apache Basic Authentication
In-Reply-To: <4789787.998610763951.JavaMail.KurtJansen@gomailjtp01>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241200250.22648-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Kurt Jansen wrote:
> I would like to set up password protected directories for my Web site
> (Apache) using the htpasswd/.htaccess.  This means that whenever a user
> requests a page in the protected directory, they get prompted for a
> userid/password.  I would like to capture the userid that the user enters
> from within my Python CGI script.  This seems like it would be a common
> thing to do, but I can't find anything in the Python library or this
> newsgroup that addresses it.  Anyone have any suggestions?

   It has nothing with Python library. User name is available to a CGI
program in OS environment. Just read CGI specification and figure it out.
The variable name is REMOTE_USER. I hope you can read env vars in Python.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 19 14:41:46 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:41:46 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <9loc7g$dmm$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELDLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Andrew Dalke]
> Now my chance to ask a dumb question.  When do you need to know
> how many bits are used for a number?  I admit to never needing
> that functionality, but then again, I've almost never used long
> integers in real code.

It's a common enough need in bigint code, but since you almost never use the
latter, it's expected that you wouldn't see a need for the former <wink>.

Determining the number of bits "should be" a constant-time operation, but
there's no way to get at it from Python now faster than O(log2(N)), i.e.
time proportional to the number of bits (BTW, the quickest way is to use
marshal to create a string and then reverse-engineer the marshal storage
format -- using hex() is simpler, but a bit slower last time there was a
speed battle comparing the two).

When a builtin operation doesn't have the right order behavior, that
propagates up into every algorithm using it; e.g., what "should be" a
linear-time algorithm can turn into an N*log N algorithm, and so on.  Many
examples of this unpleasant phenomenon were posted in years past, although I
don't recall any recently.

About twice every three years, somebody gets excited about this, and says
they're going to "do something" about it; and Guido approved of the idea of
adding some methods to longs years ago.  In reality, nothing happens,
apparently because the kind of person who gets excited about this can't
restrain themself from getting excited about all sorts of other enhancements
too, and that's fatal for all the usual reasons.

I hope that the next time this happens, we're at least left with a PEP to
remember it by <wink>.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 21 12:57:01 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation????
In-Reply-To: <to4utvgqi9jp94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211253220.23498-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Maan M. Hamze wrote:

>  [snip]
> Ok!  I am not going to provide this argument.  So, the Text Input element
> that I left empty and had not provided a vlaue for should NOT make it into
> FieldStorage() if user does not type some characters in it.  Right?  I tried
> it.  It does not make it.
> Even if I provide a value of " " (is " " an empty string??)

No. If a string contains even just a single whitespace character it is not
empty.

> 2.  BUT, read on:
>
>  [snip]
>
> Of interest is:   if form.has_key("firstname")  and  form["firstname"].value
> != ""
> How come we are checking for the key AND that the vlaue of the key is not
> ""?  Is not that code assuming that a non-empty string can be included in
> FieldStorage() without using keep_blank_values?  Thus a contradiction with
> what point 1. has to say about it?

It depends on the browser. I'm not certain what the RFCs or W3C has to say
about it, but a browser usually does not send to the server information about
a field that has no value. That doesn't necessarily mean that a browser may
not try to pull that stunt, however :) So the code makes sure that if there IS
a value, that it is not empty.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug  3 17:14:03 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 14:14:03 -0700
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3B6AA8A1.4000907 at herts.ac.uk>, Mark says...
...
>I especially agree, makes me think a bit about how I use things too. Who 
>knows before you know it I might actually write something I wasn't 
>ashamed to show ;). Thats why I intend to carry on picking everyones 
>brain on here.

Don't hesitate.  But rember: you can pick your friends, and you can pick your
friends' brains, but you can't pick your friends' nose.

I'm not sure if anyone has explained the philosophical basis of "why no ++". 
It's rooted in Tim Peters' maxim:

   There should be on--and preferably only one--obvious way to do things.

One problem with "++" in C is that there are prefix and postfix forms; true,
both forms are handy and useful, but they do cause confusion.  (Let's see a show
of hands: who has never once used one when he should have used the other?)

BTW, I once thought that the maxim above was why Python 1.5.2 (which was current
at the time) didn't have any "augmented assignment" operators (+=, -=, etc.) 
However, I have since learned that they just hadn't been implemented yet.  I
think one of the selling points of these things to Guido (Tim's maxim above
notwithstanding) was that they offer some real "value added" by allowing
operations to be done "in place" rather than via a copy.  (Still, most of us
just use them to increment integers<wink>.)

you-can-lead-a-horse-to-water-but-if-you-want-to-make-him
   -drink-you-gotta-wait-patiently-until-he-comes-up-with
   -an-excuse-to-be-thirsty-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 11:55:10 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:55:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <9m0iod$bhd8e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221153110.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

Oh, wait. Here, I found it:

---
#! /usr/bin/python

import os
import string

print os.path.dirname(string.split(`os`, "'")[3])
---

I tested it under 1.5.2. Does it also work under 2.x?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 22 17:21:34 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:21:34 -0700
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Does this help get you started?


>>> class A:
...     def a(self):
...             print 'A.a()'
...
>>> class B(A):
...     pass
...
>>> eval('B.%s' % 'a')
<unbound method A.a>

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Joseph Andrew Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B83C8DD.37316862 at earthlink.net...
> I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
> be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
> I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
> work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
> a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
> dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
> already a standard function to do it. Sadly, perusal of the
> tutorial, library reference, language reference (briefly),
> and FAQ has thus far been unenlightening. Pointers
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> # Joe Knapka
> # Member, GFAPOOA (Global Front Against Promulgation Of Obscurantist
> Acronyms)
> # Linux MM docs:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html



From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Mon Aug 20 05:25:48 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:25:48 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <h2k1otcpuii2411unfhathotf4tphs5agg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2ll1otchh6hqsce0gi5kvrg7hj8ash6hj9@4ax.com>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:00:37 +0200, Paul Moore <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com>
wrote:

>So I looked through PEP 252 looking for a simple summary of how to add
>"subclassability" to an existing C type. I could find nothing.

Doh. If I'd looked in PEP 253, I'd have seen it. Looks fairly messy, though...

Maybe a simple example would help. (I assume a simple example is possible -
otherwise, I don't imagine that many 3rd party extension types will end up
supporting this...)

Paul.



From patio87 at aol.com  Fri Aug 24 03:57:41 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 07:57:41 GMT
Subject: I have a prob
Message-ID: <20010824035741.14313.00005094@mb-mi.aol.com>

I am like 2 hours into learning Tk/tcl and I keep getting this error
 first i'll show you the code

import _tkinter
import sys
win = _TK()
button = Button(win, text = "Goodbye", command = sys.exit)
button.pack()
mainloop()

thats the code heres the error

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Python21/s", line 3, in ?
    win = _TK()
NameError: name '_TK' is not defined

please help me im still learning python so be easy on the vocabulary thanks


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 25 22:06:36 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:06:36 -0400
Subject: Qeury about copyright
In-Reply-To: <20010826111541.A1006@isetroc.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEBDLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Dave Harrison]
> To those who know the GPL inside out and Guido as well,

I expect only Guido's doctor knows Guido inside out, but luckily this
question should be answerable by reference to his exterior alone.  Luckily
too, the GPL is irrelevant, as Python isn't released under the GPL.

> I am a student and when I am coding at University I have a limit
> placed on the amount that I can download during a single session
> from sites external to the uni.  Now because I like to code in
> python and I want to encourage its use in the comp sci dept as
> well I have been thinking about putting up a webiste based at the
> uni with the python doco and maybe a few essays by various people
> such as Guido and other people who use and have commented on python.
>
> We currently have a Python message board, but to to make is easy
> for students to code in python at uni they need to have it
> available to them without eating up their download quota.
>
> What restrictions are there placed on the availability of the
> doco and varied essays ? Can I put the doco online for people to
> use ?  Anything else I might want to know ?

The docs are released under the Python License, which places no material
restrictions on redistribution.  Read the license for details; the short
course is you're not going to get in any trouble for making a copy of the
Python docs available locally.

Essays are a different issue, and the answer may vary according to each one.
If the requirements for a particular essay aren't clear, you should ask its
author(s) directly.

If the essays you're talking about are available from python.org, it may be
less work in the end to convince your university to maintain a mirror site.
There are several already, listed at

    http://www.python.org/Mirrors.html

and instructions for setting up a mirror are at

    http://www.python.org/MirrorInstructions.html





From wware at world.std.com  Wed Aug  1 00:19:06 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 04:19:06 GMT
Subject: Web-based micropayment scheme
Message-ID: <GHDFzv.JEL@world.std.com>

#!/usr/bin/python
"""Probabilistic micropayment scheme

   I am not a big-time web jock. Big-time web jocks will laugh
   at my simplistic use of CGI and my obvious ignorance of web
   security issues. This is a proof of concept. Live with it.

Because of transaction processing costs, it's impractical to ask
people to pay a few cents or a fractional cent for downloadable
content. If it could be made practical, it could open up new vistas of
web commerce. This is a very crude prototype of a scheme to do that,
using probabilistic payments. Suppose that I agree that some piece of
content is worth a nickel. I'm not willing to use a 34-cent stamp to
send a nickel to the creator of the content, nor are our banks willing
to process a check for five cents, but I might be amenable to a fair
lottery that gives me one chance in 100 of owing five dollars.

Assuming the customer agrees in principle, the next problem is to
arrange a lottery that both vendor and customer agree is fair. Let N
be the multiplier (the 100 in the example above) and P be the amount
of the check (five bucks, above) so that the agreed-upon value of the
content is P/N. Here's my idea for a fair lottery protocol.

1. Customer and vendor agree to terms (including values of P and N).
2. Vendor generates a random 128-bit number R1 and computes its
   MD5 hash H1. Vendor transmits H1 and content to customer.
3. Customer generates a random 128-bit number R2 and transmits R2
   to vendor.
4. Vendor transmits R1 to customer. Customer confirms that MD5 hash
   of R1 is really H1.
5. Customer and vendor both compute ((R1+R2) % N). If this number is
   zero, then customer owes amount P to vendor. Otherwise customer
   gets the content for free.

The guarantee of fairness is that neither vendor nor customer can
manipulate the quantity ((R1+R2)%N), because the vendor doesn't know
R2 when he generates R1, and the customer doesn't know R1 when he
generates R2. The hash value H1 represents the vendor's commitment to
the value of R1: it assures the customer that the vendor did not
change R1 after learning the value of R2.

One nice thing here is that no third party is required. Anybody could
implement this protocol on their webserver and start selling content,
as long as their customers are smart enough to understand how the
protocol works.

This script implements both ends of the transaction, on a Red Hat 6.2
Linux box, with the server running Apache. Because of an awful kludge
at one point, you need to maintain a directory at
/home/httpd/cgi-bin/data/ which should be writeable/readable by anybody.
Put a copy of this script in /home/httpd/cgi-bin and chmod it to 755.
Then visit http://localhost/cgi-bin/micropay.py to try out the protocol.
"""

import os, md5, random, types

def str2long(s):
    Y = 0L
    for x in map(ord, s):
        Y = (Y << 8) + x
    return Y

def long2str(x):
    s = ""
    for i in range(16):
        y, x = chr(x & 0xFF), x >> 8
        s = y + s
    return s

def random128():
    # There aren't really 128 bits of entropy here, there are actually
    # only 24 bits because of the way random.random() works. This is a
    # bug, because it admits the possibility that the customer could
    # exhaustively search all possible initial states for random.random()
    # to reverse-hash H1 and figure out R1. But this is only a prototype.
    X = 0L
    for i in range(8):
        X = (X << 16) + long(0x10000 * random.random())
    return X

def hash(x):
    s = long2str(x)
    s = md5.md5(s).digest()
    return str2long(s)

N = 100

if os.environ.has_key("HTTP_HOST"):

    # Server-side CGI script

    import cgi, string
    form = cgi.FieldStorage()
    info = { }
    gotAny = 0
    for k in form.keys():
        try:
            info[k] = string.atol(form[k].value)
        except:
            try:
                # Try stripping the trailing "L"
                info[k] = string.atol(form[k].value[:-1])
            except:
                info[k] = form[k].value
        gotAny = 1

    if not info.has_key("R2"):

        # First pass
        # Generate R1, compute H1, give H1 to customer
        R1 = random128()
        H1 = hash(R1)
        # I need to pass R1 and H1 to the second pass instance of this
        # script. How the hell do I do that? I guess I'll just write
        # R1 to a file on the server. That obviously wouldn't work in
        # a real system where many people might be talking to the
        # server at a time, but it'll do for now. Maybe it could work
        # with MySQL if I tagged incoming requests in some repeatable
        # unique way, but I'm not enough of a web jock to know how.
        outf = open("data/r1crud", "w")
        outf.write(repr(R1))
        outf.close()

        print "Content-type: text/html\n"
        print "<HTML><H1>Probabilistic micropayment protocol</H1>"
        print "First pass<p>"
        print "H1 is ", repr(H1), "<p>"
        print """
        <FORM METHOD=GET ACTION="http://localhost/cgi-bin/micropay.py">
        Enter R2: <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME=R2 VALUE="" SIZE=50>
        <INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="OK">
        <INPUT TYPE=RESET VALUE="Reset">
        </FORM>
        """

    else:

        # Second pass
        # Retrieve R1 from the file I wrote before.
        inf = open("data/r1crud")
        R1 = string.atol(inf.read()[:-1])
        inf.close()
        H1 = hash(R1)
        R2 = info["R2"]
        assert type(R2) == types.LongType
        print "Content-type: text/html\n"
        print "<HTML><H1>Probabilistic micropayment protocol</H1>"
        print "Second pass<p>"
        print "R1 is ", repr(R1), "<p>"
        print "H1 is ", repr(H1), "<p>"
        print "R2 is ", repr(R2), "<p>"
        msum = (R1 + R2) % N
        print "(R1 + R2) % N is", msum, "<p>"
        if msum == 0L:
            print "You owe me a check. I have recorded that fact in my"
            print "database, and will be expecting it in the mail soon."
        else:
            print "You do not owe me a check. Enjoy your content."
        print "</HTML>"

else:

    # Client-side script

    print "Get H1 from vendor, enter here (including trailing 'L'):"
    H1 = input()
    assert type(H1) == types.LongType
    R2 = random128()
    print "\nHere is R2, pass it to vendor:"
    print R2
    print "\nGet R1 from vendor, enter here (including trailing 'L'):"
    R1 = input()
    assert type(R1) == types.LongType
    if hash(R1) != H1:
        print "\nH1 is not the correct hash for R1. The vendor may be"
        print "trying to rip you off."
        raise "Ouch, that hurts"

    msum = (R1 + R2) % N
    print '\n(R1 + R2) % N =', msum
    if msum == 0L:
        print "You owe the vendor a check. Sorry."
    else:
        print "You do not owe the vendor a check this time. Rejoice."

# end of script

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From nas at python.ca  Wed Aug  8 19:20:17 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:20:17 -0700
Subject: from __future__ import generators
In-Reply-To: <00cd01c1205b$daf497a0$68bd6ac2@zko>; from gzeljko@sezampro.yu on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 12:44:13AM +0200
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081815201.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu> <00cd01c1205b$daf497a0$68bd6ac2@zko>
Message-ID: <20010808162017.C2974@glacier.fnational.com>

gzeljko wrote:
> Is 1 'yield' worth 100000 'from __future__ import generators' ? :)

You could always wait for 2.3.

  Neil



From superfix at bol.com.br  Tue Aug  7 16:31:03 2001
From: superfix at bol.com.br (superfix)
Date: Tue,  7 Aug 2001 17:31:03 -0300
Subject: Problems with Threads
Message-ID: <GHPSZR$IMOPlymSLOs18bkf5C8CsDWSjXktBbeqr7y@bol.com.br>

Hello guys. I have been some problems with threads in 
python/c. Let me try explanation this:
	- I have an interface write in python for c
	- In this interface I call a module write in c
	- In this module I call glutmainloop, otherwise, 
the program enters in loop to refresh the opengl 
aplication.

	So, I need to return to python interpreter. 
otherwise, I need to keep two aplications in my 
program:  python window and
opengl window. Note: I need to keep the terminal active 
together opengl.
	
	/*Api*/
	include <module.c>
	. . . . . . .
	. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
	static PyObject *agg_CreatAgent(PyObject *self, 
PyObject *args)
	{
		int x;
    		if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &x)
			return NULL;
 
		Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
			open_function(x, "filename");
  	 	Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
	
		Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    		return Py_None;
	}
	. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
	. . . . . . .
	
Effect. Python simply call the open_function and fall in 
loop. How I can return the control to the python and 
keep this thread active?
Any thoughts?

	Phill.
	

 
__________________________________________________________________________
Acesso pelo menor pre?o do mercado! R$ 14,90 nos 3 primeiros meses! 
ASSINE AGORA! http://www.bol.com.br/acessobol/





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 19:35:47 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:35:47 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <kuitfe9xfm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <7xae0q2vu4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:
> on the other hand it is also worth keeping in mind that back then
> there were no caches in cpus, whereas todays cpu caches as big as main
> memories were then (and see very good hit rates).

We run bigger applications now than we did then.  Otherwise we wouldn't
find ourselves buying so much dram.


From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug  8 21:47:05 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 01:47:05 GMT
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical data problem
References: <jqkc7.138856$um3.834172@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9n3qsp.7m9.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:02:23 GMT, Jeremy Jones <dnjjones at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I apologize if this is a dupe.  I tried to post earlier and
>it appeared not to send out.
>
>I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
>set of data.  (Forgive me if I am not using the proper
>terminology or if what I mean by a term is completely
>different from what the rest of you mean by the same
>term.  I am still a very new newbie and am just
>converting to Python after a couple of years of perl.
>I will try to clarify what I mean.)  By hierarchical,
>I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
>and that the parents and children should be aware of
>one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
>the parent should be aware of its children and
>children should be aware of their parents).  By
>dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
>very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
>in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
>of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
>variable and will be defined at run time.  I would
>prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.
> Right now, I have the following, which is a three
>tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
>other:

Is this close?

class Node:
    def __init__(self, val, parent=None):
        self.parent = parent
        self.children = {}
        for k in val.keys():
            self[k] = val[k]
    def __getitem__(self, k):
        return self.children[k]
    def __setitem__(self, k, v):
        if hasattr(v, 'keys'):
            self.children[k] = Node(v, self)
        else:
            self.children[k] = Leaf(v, self)
    def keys(self):
        return self.children.keys()
    def clear(self):
        for v in self.children.values():
            v.clear()
        self.children.clear()
    def __repr__(self):
        return 'Node(%s)' % repr(self.children)

class Leaf:
    def __init__(self, val, parent):
        self.parent = parent
        self.val = val
    def clear(self):
        self.parent = None
    def __repr__(self):
        return 'Leaf(%s)' % repr(self.val)

>>> n = t.Node({'foo': 1, 'bar': {1: 10, 2: 20}})
>>> n
Node({'foo': Leaf(1), 'bar': Node({2: Leaf(20), 1: Leaf(10)})})
>>> n['bar'][1]
Leaf(10)
>>> n['bar'][1].parent.parent
Node({'foo': Leaf(1), 'bar': Node({2: Leaf(20), 1: Leaf(10)})})
>>> 


Notice that this has cycles all over the place.  I put in 'clear' to try to
break them, but I've never built a directly cyclic structure before, so maybe
I'm doing it wrong.

>################################
>cs1_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
>cs1_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
>cs2_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
>cs2_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
>cs2_cmd3 = {'CLOSE2': 'RESULTS'}
>cs3_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
>cs3_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
>
>command_set1 = {'cmd1': cs1_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs1_cmd2}
>command_set2 = {'cmd1': cs2_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs2_cmd2,
>'cmd3': cs2_cmd3}
>command_set3 = {'cmd1': cs3_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs3_cmd2}
>
>test_set = {'TEST1': command_set1,'TEST2':
>command_set2,'TEST3': command_set3}
>#################################

test_set = Node({
    'TEST1': {
        'cmd1': {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'},
        'cmd2': {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'},
    },
    'TEST2': {
        etc.
    }
})

test_set['TEST4'] = { blah blah }



Editorial:
I don't really know what you're doing here, but it seems likely that you're
choosing some tortuous weird difficult solution to a problem which could be
solved in a much easier way.  Complicated cyclic data structures, repetitive
code, and lots of tiny dictionaries are all warning signs to me that I've
chosen the wrong approach.


From spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 04:55:21 2001
From: spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com (spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:55:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Creating multi-dimensional arrays
Message-ID: <9kqupp$1jt$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

I've been writing a couple of programs recently which use multi-dimensional arrays of
a predefined size, and I was wondering if there was a standard idiomatic way of creating 
these in Python. I'm not looking to restrict the arrays to contain specific types, so just 
pointing me to Numeric isn't the answer here.

There are two ways I've been using to create these arrays:

First way (simple, pretty):

>>> a = [[[0 for x in range(10)]
...          for y in range(10)]
...          for z in range(10)]

Which I suppose has the advantage of documenting exactly what each dimension indicates.

Second way (more general):

	from copy import deepcopy

	def makearray(dimensions, init=None):
		if len(dimensions) == 1:
			array = [init]*dimensions[0]
		else:
			subarray = makearray(dimensions[1:], init)
			array = [deepcopy(subarray) for i in range(dimensions[0])]

		return array

	a = makearray((10,10,10), 0)

I'm sure this isn't particularly efficient, though (and has no error checking...).

Is there an obvious better way I should be using (the thing that comes to mind is a class
which would use a 1 dimensional array and pretend to be multidimensional, a lot like Numeric)?

-- 
Jon


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 21 10:10:30 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:10:30 GMT
Subject: simple question
References: <b740d7ae.0108161220.22ab0377@posting.google.com> <3B7C38ED.3DD931B2@olen.to> <3B7C4971.C554F65A@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o4qum.dru.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:30:09 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> pisze:

> However, whenever you assign to a variable name, Python always assumes that
> that name should go into the local scope, unless specifically told
> otherwise.  In the assignment line (NextID = NextID + 1), the right hand
> side is created just as you'd expect, by looking up the (global) NextID and
> adding one to it.

No. Which variables are local is determined statically. When a variable
is assigned to in a function and there is no corresponding global
statement, it's assumed to be local and all uses of this variable
name in this function refer to the local variable.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From mepython at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 14:13:44 2001
From: mepython at yahoo.com (Samir Patel)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 11:13:44 -0700
Subject: How to refresh a page after urlretrive
Message-ID: <ffd90607.0108071013.3d472401@posting.google.com>

Friends,
  I used urlretrieve() to retrieve a page which contains unique
session id. After processing this page, I did urlcleanup() and call
urlretrieve() again and unfortunately I am getting same page. If I
refresh that page through browser (Konqueror or ie doesn't matter), if
does bring new page. Also if I wait for about 15 minutes or so, and
call urlretrieve() again, I am getting a new session id. Can somebody
suggest me what I am missing?
  Thanks in advance.


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Aug 25 15:30:16 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:30:16 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
Message-ID: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com>

I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?

I thought I understood what I was doing. I had tested a bit of file
locking stuff.

I opened up two separate MSDOS console windows, and tried acquiring
locks and releasing locks, etc...

In one window:

E:\Apache\cgi-bin\pylinks>python
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import msvcrt, os, sys
>>> f = open('lock.txt')
>>> fd = f.fileno()
>>> size = os.path.getsize('lock.txt')
>>> from time import localtime
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_RLCK, size)
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)
>>> localtime()
(2001, 8, 25, 12, 14, 19, 5, 237, 1)
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_RLCK, size)
>>>


In the other window:
E:\Apache\cgi-bin\pylinks>python
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import msvcrt, os, sys
>>> f = open('lock.txt')
>>> fd = f.fileno()
>>> size = os.path.getsize('lock.txt')
>>> from time import localtime
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_RLCK, size)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 36] Resource deadlock avoided
>>> localtime()
(2001, 8, 25, 12, 13, 24, 5, 237, 1)
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_RLCK, size)
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)
>>>


When one process had the lock on the file first, the other process would
either time out and given an IOError, or else wait until the first
process unlocked the file, and then it appeared to acquire the lock.

Even very simply, in a single window, I can do this and at least get no
error messages:
>>> f = open(r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt')
>>> fd = f.fileno()
>>> size = os.path.getsize(r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt')
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_RLCK, size)
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)
>>> 

I realize that this doesn't prove I had a lock on anything, but I've
tested that out separately, and I believe I am acquiring a lock and
releasing it without error.

NOW, why doesn't this class that I've written work without error?

Here is the class:
---------------(begin winLock module)--------------------
''' winLock.py

class lockobject
supports the same function calls as
posixLock.lockobject
export to lockobject.py: a wrapper module
around the win and posix lockobjects
'''
import os, msvcrt

modes = {'write':msvcrt.LK_RLCK, 'read':msvcrt.LK_NBLCK,\
         'unlock':msvcrt.LK_UNLCK}

class lockobject:
    def _lockoperation(self, lockfilename, mode):
        size = os.path.getsize(lockfilename)
        f = open(lockfilename, 'r')
        f.seek(0)
        msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), modes[mode], size)
        
    def getReadLock(self, lockfilename):
        self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'read')

    def getWriteLock(self, lockfilename):
        self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'write')

    def unlock(self, lockfilename):
        self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'unlock')

--------------(end of winLock module)-------------------------

Here is an interactive session with the module:

>>> import winLock
>>> from winLock import lockobject
>>> one = lockobject()
>>> one.getWriteLock(r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt')
>>> one.unlock(r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\winLock.py", line 28, in unlock
    self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'unlock')
  File "e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\winLock.py", line 19, in
_lockoperation
    msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), modes[mode], size)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
>>> 

Now, why am I getting this Permission denied error? I'm only doing the
same things I did before without the class? (OK, I did put a seek(0)
command in there. It didn't used to be there and I was getting the same
error, so I though maybe I should set the file pointer to the beginning
of the file each time? Anyhow, doesn't work either way.)

If someone can give me some tips here, I'd really appreciate it.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 15 16:30:56 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:30:56 -0700
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com> <Xns90FEA401A2357duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <9le69l$bha$1@news.mathworks.com> <Xns90FEAE99556D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <3B7AB427.EFC89930@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3B7ADBFF.DCF2F2D@ccvcorp.com>


Rob Andrews wrote:

> I think I've got a bare grasp of the metaphysics involved in global
> value assignment in Python. I was really asking more of a pragmatic
> question along the lines of why one would really want to change the
> value assigned to a global.
>
> I imagine it might be handy for a variety of different hacks one might
> use for convenience, but I wonder doing it is actually good practice.
>

Well, typically the use of global variables *is* considered to be poor, hackish
programming practice.  But if you *are* using globals, it would be almost
pointless to have them be unchangeable.  Yes, you can usefully create constants
this way, but globals should not be limited to constants--if you're going to have
them at all, they should be real variables.  A common (not necessarily good...)
use of a global variable, would be to maintain a count of some sort, where the
count might change in any number of different, unrelated functions.  You *could*
find other ways of doing this, but a global variable is often the most convenient
(though not safest).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Aug  2 04:23:44 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:23:44 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Non-Programmers (was: Changing the Division Operator)
In-Reply-To: <yoxbsm0kn95.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010802102339.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 01-Aug-2001 Ville Vainio wrote:
 >  I think Perl people have used the term "accidental programmer" a while
 >  now (isn't it used in the Camel book?).

I would prefer the term "incidental programmers" proposed by Steve 
Holden. There are moments when I program, but these incidents are not
accidental. It's not like I'm playing around with my computer, and 
suddenly realize that I have been programming for a while.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    02-Aug-2001
Time:    10:19:20

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 12:54:20 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:54:20 GMT
Subject: Steps to install Python in debug mode
References: <97592a5.0108300554.1c7b1852@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8e6f18.14877609@news.t-online.de>

On 30 Aug 2001 06:54:26 -0700, Irina.Kotlova at lhsl.com (Irina Kotlova)
wrote:

>I already have Python 2.1 Release installed. If I compile "pythoncore"
>and then "python" from pcbuild and copy Python21_d.lib, Python21_d.dll
>and Python21_d.exe into the appropriate places, then I still can't
>make Python work in debug mode.

Hi, what does it mean: doesn't work in debug mode? Can you start
python21_d but get an error? Which kind? 

If you can start it, do you get an import error for some module? This
is probably cause by a missing debug build of an imported DLL (for all
.pyds you import, you also need to have a debug version (foo_d.pyd) if
you run python21_d.

You should probably copy the .pdb files, too (python21_d.pdb,
python21_d.pdb) since they contain the debug information (at least if
you have compiled using MSVC). I don't know how this works in cygwin
but I assume there the debug info is merged in the DLL. 


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Aug  9 04:54:35 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 10:54:35 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <9kru8t$sol$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010809105430.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 08-Aug-2001 Gillou wrote:
 >  Bug...
 >  You forgot the "y" in the vowels ;-)

I guess it depends on what language is assumed, if y is to be considered 
a vowel or not. And you could also argue that y is a vowel or not 
depending on the position in the word. Consider for example the English 
words "yield" and "sadly". So, you could want to treat y separately.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    09-Aug-2001
Time:    10:50:05

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From jknapka at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 19:42:58 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph A. Knapka)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:42:58 GMT
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <mailman.997178713.4482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B707D02.14101E0B@earthlink.net>

Ken Guest wrote:
> 
> hi,
> I'm trying to put together a python + tkinter app with data entry
> validation.
> What I have in mind is that the colour of the text changes depending
> on what the user has typed. (In otherwords the text is displayed in
> red if it is invalid, and in black if it is ok).
> I'd like to use regex (or the more up-to-date re strings) to specify
> what type of text is valid (cf my last query to the help mailing list).
> 
> At the moment, basic code that I have gotten to work looks like:
> 
> self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd='string is int %P',
> invcmd='bell')
> 
> attempts at specifying python procedures for vcmd and invcmd only seem
> to be called when the app in initialising and don't exactly work.
> For example, with
> 
> self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd=self.validate('%P'),
>                      invcmd=self.invalid())

This is because self.validate('%P') is a method call, not a
bound method object. Similarly self.invalid() - you're calling
the method and sending its result into the Entry() call.

I have a similar problem - I need to send data known at
control-creation time to the callback when the control is
clicked. So I use a callable object and attach the data to
it:

class CallbackCmd:

	def __init__(self,boundmethod,data):
		self.boundmethod = boundmethod
		self.data = data

	def __call__(self,*args):
		apply(boundmethod,(self.data,)+*args)

Then:

class SomeGUI:

	def theCallback(self,data,*args):
		doSomethingUseful(data)

	def __init__(self,someCallbackData):
		btn = Tkinter.Button(command=CallbackCmd(
					self.theCallback,
					someCallbackData)
					)

and then when the btn is clicked, SomeGUI.theCallback() is
invoked with someCallbackData as the first argument, and
the rest of the Tk callback arguments following.

I wonder if there is a more Pythonian way to accomplish this?

HTH,

-- Joe

> the validate and invalid methods are called when the app starts up, but
> neither of those methods are called when any keys are pressed, and I'm
> really not sure that the second definition above is syntatically
> correct, even though the parser didn't catch any problems.
> 
> What I'd like to know is if what I am looking to do is in anyway
> possible, and if anybody has any pointers/ideas on how I could
> implement this functionality.
> Am I left to using TCL expressions for data entry validation (and if so,
> how do I do the above)
> 
> (I have done a number of searches on Google to see if anybody else
> may have run into these questions before but couldn't find anything
> of interest)
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Ken

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S


From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug  2 14:53:57 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:53:57 -0700
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3B6369D4.671C1870@alcyone.com> <Xns90ED38309C442cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50> <3B63973B.490D4B08@engcorp.com> <Xns90ED5DA29D6E3gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154> <3B66AE57.79A2C217@cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <3B69A1C5.3ADB92DF@home.net>

Jay O'Connor wrote:

> *THAT* would be something useful to
> have...a class level import; import the module in __init__, it's in
> scope for the whole class
> 
> The best workaround for now I could think of is either to assign an
> instance variable to the module
> 
> class MyEngine:
>         def __init__ (self):
>                 import engine_support
>                 self._es = engine_support
> 
>         def doSomething(self):
>                 self._es.do_something()
> 
> That works...I tested it...

That's a good way to do it.
 
> or to assign it to a global in the module so that once it's imported,
> it's available to the whole module.

That's not so good.

another option is:

class MyEngine:
    import engine_support

    def __init__(self):
        pass
    def doSomething(slef):
        self.engine_support.function() 

Not really that different, all you are doing is saving the import in all
the __init__s, but as has been pointed out, they are not very expensive.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From morten at thingamy.net  Sun Aug  5 07:13:11 2001
From: morten at thingamy.net (Morten W. Petersen)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 13:13:11 +0200
Subject: Issue with function keyword defaults
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108051307240.31133-100000@bcryachts.atsat.com>

Hi,

after trying to set an empty dictionary as a default keyword arguments'
value, this happened (same thing happened on 2.0.1 BTW):

morten at debian:~$ python
Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219
(prerelease)] on linux2 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch
Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import time
>>> def test(r={}):
...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
...     return r
...
>>> test()
{997015577.922: 997015577.922}
>>> test()
{997015578.849: 997015578.849, 997015577.922: 997015577.922}
>>> test()
{997015579.446: 997015579.446, 997015578.849: 997015578.849, 
 997015577.922: 997015577.922

I would assume that r would be re-initialized on every call, but that's
not happening;  could anyone explain this behaviour?

Thanks,

Morten



From guido at python.org  Thu Aug 16 03:22:30 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:22:30 -0400
Subject: PEP 252: __slots__ inappropriate
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:16:28 +0200."
             <200108160716.JAA04540@pandora.informatik.hu-berlin.de> 
References: <200108160716.JAA04540@pandora.informatik.hu-berlin.de> 
Message-ID: <200108160722.DAA09205@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> In the current implementation of PEP 252, to declare an class with
> slots, you assign to the __slots__ variable inside the class
> definition:
> 
> class Foo(object):
>   __slots__ = ['bar','baz']
> 
> This declares that every instance of Foo will have two instance
> attributes, namely bar and baz.
> 
> I find that this way of defining class properties is inconsistent with
> the rest of the language, in particular with other "magic" class
> attributes:
[...]
> So please consider changing the slot syntax.

I suppose the same goes for __metaclass__ and __dynamic__.  In
python-dev, Ping made a similar request (add more syntax) for class
methods and static methods.  My response is the same; quoting myself:

| Understood, and agreed.  It is my plan to eventually provide syntax
| for this.  However, right now I need to concentrate on getting the
| underlying mechanisms to work.  The unification is a lot of work, and
| I'd like to finish the run-time before I start thinking about
| syntactic sugar.  I can't promise that I'll change the syntax before
| 2.2 is released -- there will be plenty of time after that, and there
| are plenty of more important things to do before I can make the
| release.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 10 06:43:45 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:43:45 +1000
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B73BAE1.7BA5ADBB@student.gu.edu.au>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:
> 
> > I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
> > 'natural question':
> >
> > Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> > necessary ?
> 
> If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
> can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
> breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
> silent break.
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

Well as a quick test, I went through my entire python1.5 install
(because it's the oldest python code I've got lying around :) grepping
for "yield" and only found the following references.

In the main library directory:
macpath.py:# The result (s, t) is such that join(s, t) yields the
original argument.
mhlib.py:# The tostring() function yields a string that can be passed to
another
whrandom.py:#   whrandom.random()       yields double precision random
numbers

In PIL
OleFileIO.py:           value = None # everything else yields "None"

Only four uses of yield, and all in a documenting comment where
occurance of keywords won't matter anycase. In addition to PIL, I've got
packages for Tkinter, pygnome, pygtk, modulator, idle, pyglade and
pynche installed, but perhaps a more intensive user of python should
check their files as well?
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 19:41:00 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:41:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
In-Reply-To: <20010831001211.A325@10.am>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301932530.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, mallum wrote:

> Static linking could well be the next step to take. I have a
> microdrive which I can plug into the device and get a gig of space. I
> really need a way of poking in and see what Python is actually doing
> on load.

Never underestimate the power of strace ;)

> If your interested, heres the target platform;
>
> http://www.tuxscreen.net
>
> mallum
>

Shweet! I think I want one.

Heh.

"
My phone runs python
My phone runs python
My phone runs python
My phone runs python
My phone runs python
"

Gotta love it :)

Have you contacted Russell King <linux at arm.linux.org.uk>? He's the maintainer
of the ARM port of Linux and may have an insight as to what's going wrong.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 02:36:45 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:36:45 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <mailman.998632296.6398.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xg0ai9d6q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> Earlier this year I spent two intense weeks *just* trimming runtime fat out
> of Python's dict implementation.  Do you have an idea what it takes to
> undertake a comprehensive optimization project?  I'll immodestly claim that
> I do, and I see no way for PythonLabs to get there from here.  The best hope
> you've got for major Python speedups is the vague hope that Python can
> piggyback on some other group's work.  Short of that, you'll see a sequence
> of small but achievable improvements.  In other words, the next 10 years
> will probably look like the last 10, surprisingly similar to real life in
> that respect <wink>.

I think if a Python compiler gets written, it will be part of a
completely new implementation.  I doubt if anyone's going to write one
real soon (don't look at me, I've only been using Python a week <grin>).

However, as Python matures and gets used in more types of
applications, I think the need for a compiler will increase.  So if
I'm asking for anything, it's just that those directing the evolution
of the language keep the thought in mind that Python will be compiled
some day, and avoid designing things into it that are excessively
interpreter-dependent.


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 25 21:48:33 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:48:33 -0400
Subject: line continuations with backslash
In-Reply-To: <15239.42763.663342.634632@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBCLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> You don't need the "+" signs there; as in C, adjacent string
> literals are catenated at compile-time.

[Skip Montanaro]
> so why not this then:
>
>     x = long("123"
>              "456"
>              "789")
>
> which saves all the splitting and joining and is (nearly) as readable?

Because it's not as readable, or as easy to edit.  The cost of splitting and
joining on one-shot initialization code is insignificant, most likely too
small to measure.

you-spent-more-time-writing-about-it-than-your-computer-will-save-over-
    the-rest-of-our-lives<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Sun Aug 19 22:21:48 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 02:21:48 GMT
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Wow Alex,  sometimes it amazes me how much you write in this newsgroup.
A simple "mam execl" would have been enough :)

It turns out that its has been awhile since I used the exec* functions
in C, and now I remember why- I don't like fork()! I consider it black
magic.  Forking from a process which uses a lot of memory is not
something I want to do all the time.  Especially considering the program
I am writing.

In presponse to your comments on Ritchie and Thompsom- I love their
creation, but I have no problem calling parts of it 'lame'. There are
many aspects of the computer world that I consider 'lame', and you may
not. It's simply a matter of opinion.  I respect Ritchie and Thomson
for their creation, and Turing award is mearly a secondary effect of
thier talents.

Final note- The thing I like about python is that people excited about
it generally are not so condesending as the letter you posted below. I
happen to use pipse, sockets, and the ipcmsg functions on a daily basis,
by the way.  None of them are what I want, but thanks for reminding me 
about their existance.

Neil Macneale

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Neil Macneale" <mac4-devnull at theory.org> wrote in message
> news:3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net...
>> Why does the interpreter exit when I use the os.execl() function? Even when
>> the command works correctly, the interpreter exits. Am I supposed to run
>> this function is a seperate thread?  Thats lame, if so.
> 
> The os.exec* functions *overwrite the current process* (which is running
> the Python interpreter) with the executable you specify.  It's useless to
> run them in a separate *thread*: the whole *process* is overwritten.
> 
> I'm sure Dr Ritchie and Dr Thompson, Turing Award winners for the
> development of Unix (TM), which originated this arrangement, would
> be extremely saddened by finding out that you've deemed their
> brainchild 'lame' -- most particularly, don't let the ACM know, or they
> might take away their Turing Awards, the computer science equivalent
> of Nobel prizes, and wouldn't that be sad?
> 
> Nevertheless, if you're running on some Unix-derived system, you will
> generally use os.fork to generate a new process first, then in the child
> process (after setting the environment up) you will call os.exec* to
> run the intended executable for the child-process.  On other operating
> systems, if you don't intend for the interpreter process to terminate,
> don't use os.exec*; there are other alternatives, although none of
> them is as flexible and powerful as the one you consider 'lame'.  Look
> at os.spawn* or os.system if the parent and child need no special
> communication channels (pipes) between them, os.popen and its
> relatives if you do want a pipe between the processes (having more
> than one pipe is also possible, for bidirectional communication, but
> that is prone to lock-ups unless both ends are very careful in their
> I/O interactions).  Nowadays, sockets, rather than pipes, are often
> considered to be more flexible and powerful for inter-process
> communication (IPC).  Anyway, the alternatives are many, both for
> starting another process and for communicating with it.
> 
> 
> Alex

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Aug 23 16:34:12 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:34:12 -0500
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
Message-ID: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu>

Running Python 2.1

def a():
    return b

exec "a()" in {'b':1, 'a':a}

b doesn't seem to passed as a global into the function a.

Thanks in advance.
Brian Kelley



From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 15 17:55:25 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:55:25 GMT
Subject: Proposal: comp.lang.python.division ? [was: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians]
References: <mailman.997890924.5805.python-list@python.org> <slrn9nl84l.1ev.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <Xns90FEAF1A47011duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <0srlnt0tus1pael21glde6bndfegp0v775@4ax.com>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:18:51 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth
<duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<Xns90FEAF1A47011duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>:

:grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in
:news:slrn9nl84l.1ev.grante at grante.comtrol.com: 
:
:> In article <mailman.997890924.5805.python-list at python.org>, Steven D.
:> Majewski wrote: 
:>> On 15 Aug 2001, Alex wrote:
:>> Maybe it's time to split the newsgroup :      
:>> comp.lang.python.division, anyone ? 
:> 
:> I notice you didn't suggest that we divide the newsgroup...
:> 
:Naturally he didn't, since dividing 1 newsgroup into 2 would leave some of 
:us with 0 newsgroups.

It is the .17385291143 of a newsgroup that would give my newsreader
difficulty.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 15 14:08:44 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:08:44 -0700
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com> <3B79AF68.EE4937E7@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B7ABAAC.4318D735@ccvcorp.com>

Chris Barker wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> > There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> >
> >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
> >         process(line)
>
> or, if processing the file as a list of lines doesn't work, the standard
> idiom is:
>
> fh = open("file", "r")
> while 1:
>     line = fh.readline()
>     if not line: break
>     # do stuff with line
>

Maybe I'm just being clueless here, but in what way is this semantically
different from Alex's suggestion?  In each case, you are producing a single
line at a time, then processing that line.  Admittedly, if Alex wasn't using
xreadlines() instead of the "regular" readlines(), then you have the
overhead of reading the entire file and building the list up front, but...
as is, I don't see the difference.  (Excepting that the for loop is much
more concise, readable and intuitively understandable.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:52:54 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:52:54 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com> <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfq7c$kn0$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9lhbpk01tgd@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:9lfq7c$kn0$1 at slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
> Paul Rubin:
> >Python seems to be in a somewhat dangerous phase of development right
> >now, where a lot of the design still isn't worked out, but lots of
> >people are using it, which means any mistakes made are hard to undo
> >because people's code will break.  Instead, kludges get tacked on,
> >potentially resulting in an eventual Perl-like monstrosity
>
> Huh?  "right now?"  There's almost nothing being dicussed except
> for '/' which will break even 5+ year old code.  The new keyword,

Hmmm -- it looks to me we were VERY close to a BDFL pronouncement
that assignment to aninstance.__class__ was going away, and that by
default classes were going to be unmodifiable -- both for performance
reasons, and to protect 'typical users' from themselves -- and it may
yet happen, of course.  "dangerous" seems an apt adjective here.

> used.  The "print >>" trick (yes Alex, I know you don't like it :)
> doesn't break existing code.

No, but if and when __class__ can't be modified any more, and a
class object can only be modified if it sets __dynamic__ to 1
explicitly, then existing code would break.  (That WOULD be done
gradually -- at first only for new classes, descendants of object --
"classic classes" would only disappear in Python 3.0).


Alex





From mats at laplaza.org  Fri Aug 24 11:28:20 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:28:20 GMT
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
References: <Xw9h7.10076$x84.2967046@ruti.visi.com> <9m4o38$hl1$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3b867235.215559958@news.laplaza.org>

On 24 Aug 2001 05:18:32 GMT, boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
wrote:


I believe Boudewijn is in the best position (outside TrollTech) to
comment, he seems to have been working on this /forever/.


:You cannot use your app in a commercial setting yourself, but
:people who download it can.  --

Now there's a nice confusing restriction.


Mats Wichmann



From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Mon Aug 20 14:23:32 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:23:32 -0400
Subject: problem opening a file on 2.2a1
Message-ID: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
  I compiled Python 2.2a1 on RedHat 7.0. When I enter the python 
interpreter from the command line the code:

data = open('data.out','w')

works fine. But when I try it froma  script I get the error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./p.py", line 12, in ?
    data = open('data.out','w')
TypeError: an integer is required

What am I doing wrong?
TIA,
-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 18:53:45 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:53:45 -0700
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr> <Xns90FF65D2CC75Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <3B7C38BF.8BD22DC5@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <3B7C4EF9.908219DB@ccvcorp.com>

Vassilis Virvilis wrote:

> Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >
>
> > The bottom line is that you should rarely use the "is" operator except
> > when testing if an object is None (there is only one None object in
> > Python).
> >
>
> Halo Brian,
>
> So is it safe to do?
> if type(a) is type(b): blah blah
>

It is safer to do

if isinstance(a, type(b)):  ....

because once type/class unification hits, then type() will definately not return
the same object.  Additionally, isinstance() will return true even if a is a
subclass of b. (This is very useful in case, for instance, someone wants to extend
numeric behavior by subclassing ints.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International






From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 19 08:07:30 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:07:30 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lp301$f82$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Bernd Nawothnig:
>Hmm, without having true symbol-expressions (lvals speaken in C-ish) it
>makes no difference which of the different symbols is bound physically
first
>to a value because there can't be any side effect.

Not quite.  You assume the left side is assignable.

>>> file = open("/etc/passwd")
>>> a, file.b, c = 1, 2, 3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: b
>>> a
1
>>> b
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'b' is not defined
>>> c
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'c' is not defined
>>> class NoAssign:
...   def __setattr__(self, name, val):
...     raise AssertionError
...
>>> a, NoAssign().b, c = 1, 2, 3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __setattr__
AssertionError
>>> a
1
>>> c
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'c' is not defined
>>>

>Is there a possibility in Python to return a symbol? In other words: is it
>possible to write:
>
>a() = 5

No.

>>> a() = 1
SyntaxError: can't assign to function call
>>>
                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  8 18:29:08 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 18:29:08 -0400
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
References: <mailman.997244052.13992.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ud766yymj.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> [David Bolen]
> > ...
> > I've found the only real conflict with multiple versions in the
> > registry is with file extension registration - where the most
> > recent version of Python I've installed "wins".  That only comes into
> > play if you let Windows pick your Python interpreter - you can always
> > explicitly run a specific Python version against a script.  In the
> > end, I typically just edit the file associations to make them default
> > to the version I want as the default.
> 
> If you (or Mats) do this often, it's sure easier to create a .reg file to do
> it for you.  For example, for 2.1 or 2.1.1 installed in C:\Python21:

Yep - but it's infrequent enough that I haven't bothered yet.  I
normally don't even bother with the icons (I'll take any version :-)),
so it's just like 3 entries to tweak.

> This is deliberate, but only Mark Hammond understands it <0.8 wink>.
> 
> > The win32all extensions do really seem to need the registry (at the
> > least to find some magic modules),
> 
> Ditto.

Always wondered about this - I understand how it hides the right
version beneath the generic 'pywintypes' and 'pythoncom', but can't
quite figure out why simple modules of those names that conditionally
imported the right version wouldn't work as well and lose the registry
requirements.

> A mixed blessing:  since extension modules compile-in the name of the main
> Python DLL they use, every time we bump a minor version number our Windows
> users *have* to get freshly-compiled extension modules.

Yep - I generated the patch for 2.0 to at least stop it from crashing
when you had an older extension you tried to import :-)

>                                                          We've stuck to the
> "about 6 months between .minor" releases we wanted to achieve when Guido
> left CNRI, and that DLL renaming scheme was invented when releases were
> slower-paced.  People on Windows would probably riot if they learned that
> Unix users usually don't have to upgrade extensions -- so I'm not going to
> mention it <wink>.  The major.minor dependence on Windows is artificial,
> rarely reflecting an actual incompatibility.
> 
> PEP material there, if someone cares enough to wrestle with the issues.

Hmm - I think I remember a lot of python-dev discussions at the time
about version identification dynamically to better share the same DLL.
The other option of course is to number the Python DLL based on its
binary API compatibility - more like .so numbering under Unix.  You'd
still change occasionally but less frequently.

> windows-is-easy-if-you-don't-fight-it-ly y'rs  - tim

Makes me think of the day I finally gave up trying to keep my OS
separate from my applications and just started accepting the "C:"
based defaults for all the installation packages :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Aug 20 18:53:59 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 17:53:59 -0500
Subject: boost::python and shared_ptr
Message-ID: <1ritfiny0o.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

I am using boost::python to generate python extensions of some C++
code.

I have a number of abstract base classes that I use polymorphically by
passing pointers to derived classes as pointers to base.  Suppose
Base, Derived and SomeClass are all classes and Derived inherits
publicly from Base and all are exposed to boost::python with
inheritance relationships preserved.

SomeClass's C++ constructor looks like this:
  typedef boost::shared_ptr<Base> PtrBase;
  SomeClass( PtrBase ) 

So here is my problem: if I create an instance if Derived in python,
how do I pass it to SomeClass

d = Derived()
s = SomeClass( d )  //nope: d is not a shared_ptr<Base> 

I would expect this problem would arise frequently: Any suggestions
as to how to solve it?

One approach I have tried is for Base to declare a clone method:

Base:
  virtual PtrBase clone() const=0
 
Derived:
  PtrBase clone() const { return PtrBase( new Derived( *this ) ); }

expose these to python and use it like:

d = Derived().clone()
s = SomeClass( d )  //ok, d is a shared_ptr<Base>

This works sometimes.  Since boost:;python treats shared_ptrs like
references (ie you can call member functions of the pointed to class
with the '.' operator in python), it seems like a neat solution.  You
can access member functions in python and pass it off polymorphically
to classes looking for a Ptrbase.

But the problem is that my code seems to freeze a lot when I run test
cases.  This makes me wonder if there is a reference counting problem
somewhere and objects are being deleted prematurely.  I am using only
shared_ptr -- no raw pointers anywhere.

If anyone has any comments on the design above, or other suggestions
about how to achieve my goal (create objects in python and pass them
off to constructors and member functions looking for pointers to their
base), that would be great.

Thanks,
John Hunter

boost 1.23.0
python 1.6.1


From lcampbell at ubytes.com  Fri Aug 17 15:36:33 2001
From: lcampbell at ubytes.com (liam)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:36:33 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
Message-ID: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>

is there a data type like the const in c/c++? ive been combing through the
doc and it doesnt seem to have one or am i missing something somewhere?




From rolo at foobar.org  Fri Aug 31 13:26:06 2001
From: rolo at foobar.org (Rolo Tomasi)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 17:26:06 GMT
Subject: overriding str and repr methods in Numeric arrays
Message-ID: <slrn9oviei.5v8.rolo@foobar.org>

I am creating some rather large arrays in Python using Numeric Python
arrays.  The default behavior when the user types the name of one
of the array objects is to call the str() and/or repr() methods.

I want to override the str() and possibly the repr() methods of array.

Can someone suggest the best way to override methods in the Numeric
array class?




From jparlar at home.com  Wed Aug 22 21:18:02 2001
From: jparlar at home.com (Jay Parlar)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:18:02 -0400
Subject: SGMLParseError
Message-ID: <20010823012317.VTIS549.femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com@jparlar>

In trying to get the HTMLParser to work, I occasionally come upon the following problem. 

>>> from formatter import AbstractFormatter,DumbWriter
>>> from htmllib import HTMLParser
>>> parser = HTMLParser(AbstractFormatter(DumbWriter()))
>>> parser.feed(urllib.urlopen('http://cbc.ca').read())
CBC.CA ?? Wednesday, Aug 22, 2001 nmweb02 ? shop[1] ? help[2] ? contact[3]
? search[4]?? (image)[5] Email News Digest[6] | Audio[7] | Video[8] |
CBC Radio Newscast[9] | CBC Newsworld Newscast[10] ???Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "c:\program files\python21\lib\sgmllib.py", line 91, in feed
    self.goahead(0)
  File "c:\program files\python21\lib\sgmllib.py", line 158, in goahead
    k = self.parse_declaration(i)
  File "c:\program files\python21\lib\sgmllib.py", line 238, in parse_declaration
    raise SGMLParseError(
SGMLParseError: unexpected char in declaration: '<'

It doesn't happen with every page (in fact, I have code which runs HTMLParser on over 400 separate pages, and 
only five of the pages cause this), but I really can't have it happening at all.

I've checked the list archives, and haven't found any solutions to this problem. Is there anything I can do besides 
catching the error? I'd really like some solution other than ignoring the pages that create this type of error. 

I've also been trying to use MSHTML as my parser, but that's giving me a whole array of problems in itself. The people 
on the Microsoft group I've been going to don't seem to be nearly as helpful as the Python people are :)

Jay Parlar
----------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering III
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

"Though there are many paths
At the foot of the mountain
All those who reach the top
See the same moon."





From SSchukat at dspace.de  Tue Aug 21 03:50:05 2001
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:50:05 +0100
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD57@newsintern.dspace.de>


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Maurizio Manetti [mailto:giannozzo at arca.net]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. August 2001 07:10
> An: Stefan Schukat
> Betreff: Re: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
> 
> 
> Stefan Schukat wrote:
> 
> > The win32ui is not just a call into the windows API. It depends
> > on the framework used. Normally this is used in an application
> > which is based on the Python MFC wrapping by MarkH.
> 
> Thank you a lot for the explanation!
> 
> > The pure windows API is implemented in the win32api module in
> > which your code would look like:
> > 
> > import win32con
> > import win32api
> > win32api.MessageBox(0, "Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)
> 
> That works fine!! Thanks!
>  
> > As you see there is an additional first parameter. This is
> > the HANDLE to the parent window which is filled automagically
> > in the win32ui environment.
> 
> But "0" is the HANDLE for which parent window, in this case?
>  

>From the MSDN MessageBox help:

hWnd [in] 	Handle to the owner window of the message box to be created.

		If this parameter is NULL, the message box has no owner
window. 

> > But that is not your problem. The problem is a small error
> > in the win32ui implementation. Mark has used a windows hook
> > to do the message routing. This hook was added twice by accident in
> > a console app which caused an endless recursion and
> > therefore a stack overflow in Win9X/ME, but not on WinNT/2000.
> > The fix (more a hack) was included in the CVS sources at 
> the 6. July.
> 
> That means I can download the source from the CVS and compile Python?
> (I never compiled Python under Windows)
> 

Sure you can it is open source. Look at 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/cvs.html
and
http://www.python.org/download/download_source.html

> > So it may be included in ActivePython 211 (Ask Mark)
>  
> I downloaded and installed ActivePython 2.1.1 build 212 but 
> the problem
> is still there.
> However I'll turn around it using directly the Windows API as you
> suggested. Thank you very much.
> 


	Stefan



From doug.fort at verizon.net  Thu Aug 16 16:34:56 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:34:56 +0100
Subject: socket + select
References: <mailman.997986566.11538.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7c2e70$1_5@news5.uncensored-news.com>

brueckd at tbye.com wrote:

> On 16 Aug 2001, Jo?o Alfredo wrote:
>> Does anyone cold point me a example of socket programming using
>> select/poll to handle several requests?!?
> 
> Hi Jo?o,
> You might try the Medusa website:
> http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html
> 
> It talks about using the asyncore/asynchat modules that are now a part of
> the standard Python distribution.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
<shameless plug>
also check out http://asynchttp.sourceforge.net
</shameless plug>
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From cliechti at mails.ch  Tue Aug  7 17:13:20 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 23:13:20 +0200
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns90F6ECDA35030cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

Lloyd Goldwasser <goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu> wrote in 
news:3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8 at demog.berkeley.edu:
> How hard (or desirable) would it be to provide a stronger kind
> of encapsulation in Python?

the posibility to access any value even pyrivate ones is useful for 
debugging. if there was an accsess control it must also let pass a debugger 
but that doesn't sound secure too - any python programm could then pretend 
to be a debuger and get the data.

there is also a performance impact when *every* object has to be checked 
(at runtime) if it can be accessed from the current function.

and i think its like other things e.g. operator overloading: its left out 
in java because you can do bad things with it (like how do you multiply two 
mail addresses?) but you can do it in python because its essential if you 
want to have first-class user objects.
access control for attributes prvents an unexpirenced programmer or one who 
doesn't know the object he's trying to use, from modifying critical values. 
on the other hand the experienced user will be restricted by those means.

how hard it would be to add it to python? maybe one could programm a 
special wrapper (proxy pattern?). a class with the name "protected" which 
evalutaes the call stack for each accessed attribute and decide uppon that 
if the caller is a friend or not (based on namespaces?).
to make an attribute protected on would need to wrap it in the __init__:

class A:
    	def __init__(self):
    	    	somevar = "init this one"
    	    	self.prot = protected(somevar)    	#save it with the wrapper


don't know if thats possible, i've never played around with those things 
but the exceptions know the call stack too.

-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug 28 21:58:20 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:58:20 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <v69oot0f2t1pd9iijdk23jq0kniujmcuuk@4ax.com> <mailman.999043423.30546.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iiiootolefoi0bseo1kk8g4lsgo6vrr2u7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.999043423.30546.python-list at python.org>:

:Oh hell. fcntlmodule.so munges the parameter passed to it so that LOCK_UN
:looks like F_UNLCK, LOCK_SH like F_RDLCK, and LOCK_EX like F_WRLCK. 

I was suspecting that might be what was going on.

:But I think I have found the real reason this time. Passing no mode argument
:to open() tells Python to open the file read-only. Guess what? By rejecting
:LOCK_EX Linux is telling you "Write lock? Why the hell does a read-only file
:need a write lock?". Same thing with 'w' and LOCK_SH. 'w+' and 'r+' can take
:both.

Great. Thanks. I will test more thoroughly, later tonight. But
preliminary testing seems to indicate this has solved the problem.

:So it seems that you need to take both a filename _and_ a mode in __init__(),
:and then raise an exception in the appropriate locking methods based on
:f.mode. You may also want to take a third parameter for initial lock mode,
:just in case.

Not at all. Based on whether the flag is LOCK_SH or LOCK_EX, I know
whether to open the file with 'r' or with 'w'.

:Also, you should make it so that the file is immediately opened in __init__(),

Why? I don't see any persuasive reason for that. The methods that I'm
using under windows don't allow for me to separate the action of opening
the file and obtaining the lock (there is a single command which does
both), and I wanted to keep the functions between the windows and the
posix versions as close to parallel as possible. In any case, I can't
see any compelling reason for the file opening to occur in the init
function.

:then close the file both in a close() method and in __del__(). In both methods
:you should probably check f.closed to make sure that the file hasn't already
:been closed.

Thanks. I probably do need to make a __del__ method. I hadn't thought of
that.

:Hopefully your problem has now been solved. Third (or fourth or whatever :) )
:time's the charm, right?

I really appreciate the help. The Python community is great!

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 18:04:23 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:04:23 +0200
Subject: Please Help:   xml.parsers.expat question
References: <hns2ntgvslq3uouagbpqolik9q7h1oj6df@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1544816.6Veaoefvbu@lunix.schabi.de>

Mr <mrobinson3 at uswest.net> schrub:

> How can I use xml.parsers.expat in jython on a Mac?  I tried
> 
>  import xml.parsers.expat
> 
> It won't work.

for me (using Jython 2.1a1 on java1.3.1 (JIT: null)), the following 
gives no error:

from xml.parsers import expat

markus

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From SSchukat at dspace.de  Wed Aug 22 03:48:04 2001
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:48:04 +0100
Subject: AW: ByteCode Questions
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD5D@newsintern.dspace.de>


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Skip Montanaro [mailto:skip at pobox.com]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. August 2001 17:52
> An: Stefan Schukat
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Betreff: Re: ByteCode Questions
> 
> 
> 
>     ...
>     Stefan> def Working():
>     Stefan>     EvalInCaller("a = 2\n")
>     Stefan>     exec("")
>     Stefan>     print a
> 
>     Stefan> def NotWorking():
>     Stefan>     EvalInCaller("a = 2\n")
>     Stefan>     print a
>     ...
> 
>     Stefan> So the question is why does Python take the 
> LOAD_GLOBAL byte
>     Stefan> code in the not working function and the 
> LOAD_NAME bytecode in
>     Stefan> the working version. How can I force the 
> LOAD_NAME bytecode
>     Stefan> dynamically or must I exchange all LOAD_GLOBAL to 
> LOAD_NAME in
>     Stefan> the codeblock used.
> 
> Python (before 2.1 came out with nested scopes, at least) 
> searches three
> namespaces for variables: the current function, the module in 
> which the
> function resides, then the module containing all builtin 
> functions.  There
> are three types of LOAD_* instructions:
> 
>     LOAD_FAST - when the compiler knows the variable reference is to a
>     variable local to the current function.  Values are found 
> in a local
>     variables array.
> 
>     LOAD_GLOBAL - when the compiler knows the variable 
> reference is not to a
>     variable local to the current function.  Values are found 
> by dictionary
>     lookup, first in the module's globals, then in the builtins.
> 
>     LOAD_NAME - when the compiler can't tell.  Values are found by
>     dictionary lookup first in the locals dict, then in the 
> globals dict,
>     then in the builtins.
> 
> When you execute an exec statement, it can put symbols in whatever
> namespaces you feed it as the globals and locals.  (You 
> shouldn't use parens
> with exec, BTW.  It's a statement, not a function.  Also, 
> exec's that don't
> list explicit globals and locals are not a great idea.)  The compiler
> short-circuits local variable lookup by indexing into an array in the
> current frame object.  That array is of a fixed size (determined at
> compile-time), so the compiler can only allocate an array 
> referencing the
> objects it knows are local to the current function.  There is 
> also a local
> variable dict, but in most cases (except when LOAD_NAME is 
> needed) it's not
> needed.
> 
> Your EvalInCaller function is effectively putting an exec 
> statement into the
> body of your function, but hiding it from the compiler, so 
> the "print a"
> statement generates a LOAD_GLOBAL bytecode to find "a".  (It 
> knows "a" was
> never set in the function, so it *must* be in the module 
> globals or the
> builtins as far as the compiler is concerned.)  When you add 
> an empty exec
> statement to the Working function, it signals the bytecode 
> compiler that any
> variables the function references that weren't set within the 
> function's
> body must be found the slowest way (LOAD_NAME).  Using "from 
> mod import *"
> within a function has the same cache-busting effect.  (In 
> 2.2, you get a
> SyntaxWarning error about that.  I think it will be elevated 
> to an error in
> 2.3.)
> 
> All that said, I'm not sure there's a good solution for your problem.
> 
> -- 
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/

Thanks for the explanation. Probably I should think about other clearer
ways to introduce variables defined in an "upper" namespace. 

   Stefan




From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug 22 11:33:06 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:33:06 GMT
Subject: Python in Vim
In-Reply-To: <slrn9o6jj9.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211123150.2888-200000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
 <slrn9o6jj9.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221010350.1554-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Andrei Kulakov wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:37:50 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth <adam at home.com> wrote:
> >   This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
> >   while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
> >   Send mail to mime at docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.
> > 
> > --239146339-156700546-998411271=:2888
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
> > Content-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211130501.2902 at cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
> > 
> > 
> > Hi python rabbits -
> > 	I have made an addition to python.vim that I sent (or at least I
> > think I sent) to this list a couple of days ago.  It can add a
> > 'IM-Python' menu to Gvim that holds the name of all the classes in the
> > file.  Clicking on one of those hops to the line number of that
> > function.  You can get the list by editing a Python file, then doing:
> > 
> > 	:call MakeMenuStructure()
> > 
> > ---then it will go on forever, just type ^C and <Enter> (it reports
> > bugs, but it will work nonetheless) and you have the menu.  Since it
> > still sort of has bugs, I haven't put it on the WWW yet.  I would
> > appreciate it a lot of someone could figure out the bug.  I have also
> > added code to do the defs, but it won't work until the bug is fixed,
> > sorry.
> 
> That could be very useful, would it be easy to make it work in console
> vim?

I think console Vim could be done...but I was adding onto a Python
script that has a gargantuan Python menu (although, there are maps for
most everything...).  Also, I don't know how to test if Vim is in GUI
mode or not...  But I'm working on it...what way would you like the
functions and such displayed?  I can think of:

*	opening a new buffer with tags.  bad because whipes out the tags
	file and wastes precious space.
*	a big long list of maps.  bad because maps are hard to remember.

---There are _surely_ more than that, but my foresight ends there.  Any
more ideas?

PS: I have a new version, which fixes the bugs with classes and
functions, which I'll put on vim.sf.net, and on my website (
members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/vim/python.vim ).  

Seeya


-- 
     Two is not equal to three, not even for very large values of two.
               -- Gregory Propf

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 11:19:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:19:24 +0200
Subject: Disabling Cache?
References: <3B7D2983.77C3CBE3@mitre.org>
Message-ID: <9ljgdq223oi@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Angel Asencio" <asencio at mitre.org> wrote in message
news:3B7D2983.77C3CBE3 at mitre.org...
> Greetings:
>   I know that I can do "reload" to load a module all over again.  But I do
not want to trace all the modules
> to determine which ones are dependent and reload them.

You don't have to reload any other module, as long as you don't use
the statement 'from x import y' (or otherwise stash attributes of
module x away somewhere), in which case the only real solution
is to stop doing so -=- use 'import x' and always refer to x's attributes
as x.pleep, x.kloop, etc, explicitly, and you'll have no problem.


>   Is there a way to disable the caching?  I am tired of shutting down IDLE
to reset stuff.

There is no 'caching' that reload(x) doesn't bypass, except what
you choose to use yourself.  E.g., if you choose to  code in your
module z:
    from x import y
or
    import x
    kleep = x.y
then there's no way to disable this 'caching' that you're doing
yourself.  Just use x.y explicitly everywhere you need it, and then
a reload(x) will have all your modules using the newly reloaded x.

In some cases you may find you've bound attributes of (the old)
x, and those don't get re-bound.  One case is where you've used
a default-attribute, e.g. still in module z:

def plik(a, b=x.y):
    print a,b

As the default value is evaluated once when the def statement
executes, this is, alas, a 'caching' although that may not be
obvious.  You may want to use a slightly more cumbersome idiom
to work around that, e.g.:

def plik(a, b=None):
    if b is None: b=x.y
    print a,b

Now there's no "caching" effect.

One really troublesome case is where you want to inherit
from classes that are attributes of module x.  E.g.:

class Zz(x.Yy):
    pass

*NOW* Zz.__bases__ is (x.Yy,) -- it's "cached", and it's hard
indeed to avoid this.  But, unfortunately, just as for any other
case of user-coded 'caching', there's no way to 'disable' it
(forbid you from inheriting from x's classes...?).  Is this the
specific problem you're having?


Alex





From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 24 00:13:35 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:13:35 -0500
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <3B85C222.3166AD6A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>; from greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:55:30PM +1200
References: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon> <mailman.998581116.12575.python-list@python.org> <3B85C222.3166AD6A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20010823231335.A12725@twistedmatrix.com>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:55:30PM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote:
> There is one thing to keep in mind, though: NEVER MIX TABS AND SPACES IN
> INDENTATION.  A given file should be indented using either tabs only or
> spaces only.

Editor hints for making sure this happens:

I have the following lines in my ~/.vimrc:

    set list
    set listchars=tab:??,trail:?
    set expandtab tabstop=8
    set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4

In addition to making sure that I don't ever insert tabs, this displays all
tabs as very obnoxious looking punctuation, so even if they manage to sneak in
through someone else being careless, I can correct them before it's really a
problem.

In my ~/.xemacs/custom.el, I have:

    (custom-set-variables
         '(whitespace-mode t nil (whitespace-mode)))

    (custom-set-faces
         '(whitespace-blank-face ((t nil))))

which (assuming you have the same defaults I have) makes all tabs show up in
bright yellow, but spaces don't look odd.

Anyone else have similiar settings for different editors?

-- 
                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Mon Aug 27 19:54:15 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:54:15 GMT
Subject: Single Instance of app
References: <mailman.998893659.13252.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9olo3c.7hk.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> dijo:
> [Tim Hammerquist]
> > ...
> > While I'm at it, I've never actually seen (nor needed, thus far) Python
> > code to get an atomic lock on a file.  What's the idiom in Python?
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what's meant by "atomic lock on a file", but you can
> study the std tempfile.py module for the excruciating dance needed to create
> temp files safely.

Thanks!

I just meant 'atomic' as far as avoiding the race condition. The
tempfile module uses the ((fd)?open|close) functions in the os module. I
would assume these are closer to the system calls like fopen() and
fdopen() than is the built-in open()?

Thanks again!

-- 
C combines all the power of assembly language with all
the ease of use of assembly language.
    -- trad


From rjford at mediaexpo.net  Wed Aug  8 19:47:09 2001
From: rjford at mediaexpo.net (MNX tech services)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:47:09 -0700
Subject: pyFlash
Message-ID: <Qshc7.32632$5c.2387629@news20.bellglobal.com>

Would it make sense to use static Flash 5.0 pages as a browser-based GUI
against a Python backend?  Wouldn't it have the advantage of displaying
absolutely uniformly across all platforms, along with providing a vast array
of widgets?

KSmith




From joonas at olen.to  Wed Aug  8 15:48:36 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:48:36 +0300
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
Message-ID: <3B719793.134854C9@olen.to>

Why doesn't python22a1 give members of a list with dir(list).
See snippet below.


C:\>python22
Python 2.2a1 (#21, Jul 18 2001, 04:25:46) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> dir([])
[]
>>>
C:\>python20
Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> dir([])
['append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove',
'reverse',
'sort']
>>>
C:\>python16
Python 1.6 (#0, Sep  5 2000, 08:16:13) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Copyright (c) 1995-2000 Corporation for National Research Initiatives.
All Rights Reserved.
Copyright (c) 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam.
All Rights Reserved.
>>> dir([])
['append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove',
'reverse',
'sort']
>>>


From zdanie at dr.com  Wed Aug  1 10:13:29 2001
From: zdanie at dr.com (=?windows-1251?Q?=CF=EE=F0=F2=EE=E2=E0=FF,_19?=)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:13:29 +0400
Subject: =?windows-1251?Q?=CF=F0=EE=E4=E0=E5=F2=F1=FF_=E0=E4=EC=E8=ED=E8=F1=F2=F0=E0=F2=E8=E2=ED=EE=E5_=E7=E4=E0=ED=E8=E5_=E2_=CA=E0=E7=E0=ED=E8?=
Message-ID: <231642001831141329211@Athlon>

????????????! ???? ????????.

?????????? ?????????? ? ????????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
(?????????, ??????): 
- ????? ??????? 910 ??. ?; 
- 2 ?????; 
- ??????? ?????????? ????????? ?? 7 ?? 200 ??.?; 
- ??????????? ?????????? - ????????? ??????? 0,101 ??. 

?????? - ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????. ????? ???????? ????????????:
- ???????? ?????? - ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ??????????? ????????? ?????;
- ??????? ?????????? ????; 
- ?????? ? ?????? ?????? - 5 ???. ????; 
- ?????? ? ?/? ???????  - 5 ???. ????;
- ????? ?????? ????; 
- ????? ?/? ????.

?????? ???????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????? ????????????????? ?????
???????? ? ?????????? ??? ????????. ???????? ?????????? "????/?????". ???
???????????? ?????????. ?????? ??????? ??????? (?????? ?????????? ???????,
??????? ????? ??????? ? ??????? ?????). ?????? ????????? ? ???????
?????????????. ????? - ? ?????????? ???????????.

???? ?????? - ????? ??? ????????.

???? ?? ?????????????? ? ????????? ?? ??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?
?????? ???????, ????????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????: zdanie at europe.com. ???
???? ? "????" ????????? ??????????? ????????:
"???????? ????????? ??????????".





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Aug  4 18:18:13 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 01:18:13 +0300
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
References: <mailman.996941407.25393.python-list@python.org> <slrn9moi6o.hqg.yawyi@hell.convergence.de>
Message-ID: <kuhevnii56.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn9moi6o.hqg.yawyi at hell.convergence.de>, yawyi at gmx.de
(Johannes Stezenbach) writes:

| zooko at zooko.com <zooko at zooko.com> wrote:
|| So my `gettimeofday()' sometimes returns a decreasing value.
|| 
|| Hm.  So I suppose I should report this as bug to debian...

| This happens on laptops with variable CPU clock frequency
| (Intel Speed Step or something similar).
...
| Linux uses the CPU clock cycle counter to achieve microsecond
| relolution for gettimeofday()

in that case you can probably work around this by configuring
the kernel for a 486 (it doesn't have the cycle counter instructions).

  -- erno


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 12:07:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:07:37 +0200
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <mailman.997130350.25505.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kp3o8026pt@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Rich Harkins" <rharkins at thinkronize.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997130350.25505.python-list at python.org...
> Since the default action of split is to seperate by white space (any
number
> or type of white space will do), the following one liner would do:
>
> >>> s='a  b c  d'
> >>> ' '.join(s.split())
> 'a b c d'

...as long as you're real *SURE* that s doesn't contain
OTHER forms of whitespace, such as tabs or newlines, or
you're OK with them mutating into spaces...


Alex





From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Mon Aug  6 13:12:43 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:12:43 +0100
Subject: Templating and syntactic sugar
References: <pgatmt0078nid15dm4gndhf7ug6fmpjofj@4ax.com> <mailman.997110189.26635.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <orjtmtoe17su8chr660cirsdbtthmbm7a9@4ax.com>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:05:17 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>
>    Tom> You can get and set variables in the template with tpl.var(), but I
>    Tom> want to be able to do something like tpl.var.xyzzy = "Hello,
>    Tom> world!", just because I like that syntax, but still have this
>    Tom> actually make a method call.  I'm pretty sure this is possible in
>    Tom> python (with operator overloading?), can anyone tell me how?
>
>Check up on __getattr__ and __setattr__.

Thanks, I've got it going now, seems to be working fine.  I ran into
problems with infinite loops at first but that seems to be a gotcha -
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jon/python/gotcha/getattr.html was
helpful.

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 09:53:43 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:53:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <kq0IdJAp2Oj7Ewr6@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290950270.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> In article <mailman.999084703.13690.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio
> Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes
> ....
> >
> >No, because if a program depends on 2.0 working a certain way then it would
> >break anyways with 2.1, so we'd be back where we were.
> >
> well then it would break in unix as well so there'd be no advantage.

No, because in Unix the .so's link back to the embedding executable which has
/usr/lib/pythonX.Y/libpythonX.Y.a linked into it and all the symbols from it
exported. I still can't see a good reason why some sort of mechanism can't be
implemented the same way for Win32 via DS.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From yaipa at aol.com  Thu Aug 30 13:34:38 2001
From: yaipa at aol.com (yaipa)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 10:34:38 -0700
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
References: <9mk7ur$hbv$1@mail.cn99.com> <MPG.15f8696954df68f4989686@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <8d148763.0108300934.298d7487@posting.google.com>

There is a canned Python Wordfile already on UltraEdit's website. It
is a couple of years old so may not have somethings that have been added
to 2.x, but otherwise it works.

-Al


From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Thu Aug 30 16:46:06 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:46:06 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net>

I only want to make a form. Not a stupid screen with something on it....
What can i do with that screen?




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 09:18:03 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:18:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: test, and password generator
In-Reply-To: <3B8CE6AC.6000702@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290916470.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Will Ware wrote:

> OK, this seems to work. Though apparently /usr/dict/words is no longer
> available now that I've switched to Red Hat 7.1 (which regrettably is
> still on Python 1.5.2).

1) words is now in /usr/share/dict (which is probably a better place for it
     anyway).

2) Grab Python 2.1.1 from rawhide.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Mon Aug  6 16:38:26 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:38:26 -0400
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
In-Reply-To: <9kmu1b$5e404$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLOEGDCDAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Since the default action of split is to seperate by white space (any number
or type of white space will do), the following one liner would do:

>>> s='a  b c  d'
>>> ' '.join(s.split())
'a b c d'

Rich




From jonathan at onegoodidea.com  Sat Aug  4 06:50:55 2001
From: jonathan at onegoodidea.com (Jonathan Hogg)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:50:55 +0100
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk>

In article <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn at 4ax.com>,
 Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote:

> I feel alot of synergy for the above sentiment and believe it is quite
> insightful. Of late, I've been thinking alot about lexical, grammatical,
> and semantic complexity as it applies to computer programming and
> the various different correctness memes which float around in the
> community. I've concluded  that comprehensible tersness trumps all
> other measures of merit.

Top point. Since I think this thread originally arose out of a 
comparison to Java (I think, seems a long time ago now...) I've got a 
Real World (tm) example that might be interesting.

I'm working on a system at the moment that I prototyped in Python and am 
now re-coding in Java - unfortunately the latter language is the only 
one I can use officially. The most trouble I've had has been in 
translating the following pattern:

   def something( self, y ):
      for x1, y1 in self.foo.something( y ):
         for x2, y2 in self.bar.something( y1 ):
            yield (x1, x2), y2

The original was pretty much this much code. Problems I've had 
translating this to Java:

* I've had to create some additional classes to encapsulate things that 
I previously just used tuples/lists for (as in the code above).

* I have to explicitly type all of my variable declarations (more on 
this in a tick).

* There is no standard iterator pattern (for x in xs) so I have to 
explicitly ask for an iterator and do the hasNext() and next() calls on 
it.

* There is no simple way of doing generators (Way to go Python 2.2) so I 
have to construct the entire list and return it.

So my code has ended up something like:

    public Vector something( String y )
    {
        Vector results = new Vector();
        Vector foos = this.foo.something( y );
        for ( Iterator i = foos.iterator(); i.hasNext(); )
        {
            Thingy xy1 = (Thingy) i.next();
            Vector bars = this.bar.something( xy1.getY() );
            for ( Iterator j = bars.iterator(); j.hasNext(); )
            {
                Thingy xy2 = (Thingy) j.next();
                Vector xs = new Vector();
                xs.add( xy1.getX() );
                xs.add( xy2.getX() );
                results.add( new Thingy(xs, xy2.getY()) );
            }
        }
        return results;
    }

Writing this out again (abstracting on the fly to protect the guilty) 
I'm pretty sure that the Python code would compile, but I'm not sure the 
Java code would. I generally have found with moving code from Python to 
Java that most of my type errors are not logical errors, but me writing 
the wrong type declaration.

I was chatting to a guy at work the other day who doesn't know Python, 
but had heard of it and seen some code before. He said, "Python, isn't 
that that 4GL language". At first I started going on about how it wasn't 
a 4GL, but then stopped. The thought struck me that Python is a 4GL. The 
difference becomes obvious in comparison to a 3rd generation language 
like Java. Python gives me much higher level constructs to program with.

Since I can write more powerful programs in smaller, more readable 
chunks, I think I write less buggy code. If we have to reduce the 
simplicity/expressiveness of the language in order to add type-checking, 
then I think the tradeoff is not worth it.

I'd argue that even the protocols/interfaces idea falls into this 
category. Since the majority of protocol/interface errors fall out in 
runtime testing very quickly, the additional effort that would be 
required to specify the interfaces and the hugely difficult compilation 
problem of enforcing them, just doesn't add up for me.

Jonathan


From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Fri Aug 17 04:56:08 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 01:56:08 -0700
Subject: zlib compressionobj use: what am I missing?
References: <9lhcom$8ao$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9lhf5e023rl@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lim78$d0f$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <9lhf5e023rl at enews3.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>news:9lhcom$8ao$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
>> Hi all, I'm working on a patch to the zlibmodule, but I can't get this
>> bit of code for testing compression objects to work at all.  Should it?
>> If not, what am I doing wrong??
>
>>     zlib.decompress(compdata)
>
>Only thing I can think of, is you're throwing the result of decompress
>away -- with a print here, this works fine for me.

As it turns out, my development environment was screwing up and I was
actually accessing my (then-)broken version.  sigh.

--titus


From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 14 17:29:20 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:29:20 +0200
Subject: networking
References: <20010813125337.3d63028a.pstraus@acad.stedwards.edu>
Message-ID: <2988127.yU3zVgo479@lunix.schabi.de>

Phillip Strauss <pstraus at acad.stedwards.edu> schrub:

> Can someone point me to any online reference to networking with
> python?  Socket I/O and that sort of stuff.  I always seem to leave my
> python books at home when i need that at the office. :| Thanks,

http://python.org/doc/ should provide everything you need.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 12 01:49:36 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:49:36 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <000c01c11f40$46a6f780$a9e1fea9@carol>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEECLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Arthur Siegel]
> ...
> It is the Alice project that confirmed the significance of case
> sensitivity to Guido.

"confirmed" doesn't seem accurate.  AFAICT, the reports from the Alice
project spurred Guido to think hard about it for the first time.  They
clearly struck a sympathetic chord.

> I and others tried to convince Guido that those findings were flawed
> to  such an extent where they could be safely ignored. Tim Peters,
> if I am not mistaken, publicly weighed in on it- "flawed".

Yes, I thought the Alice case conclusions were easily explained by the
InconsistentCamelcasingUsedThroughOuttheirApi.

> Deaf ears.

c.l.py has seen far too much of "if Guido doesn't agree with me, it must be
that he ignored me" silliness in recent years; I trust this isn't another
instance of it.  In this particular case, I believe Guido saw more worth in
Alice's position than was explicit in their arguments.

> Then VPython comes along - also out of Carnegie Mellon.

Does it matter where it's from?

> Guido  states that VPython "failed to confirm" Alice's findings about
> the significance of case sensitivity.  I note Guido's wording. In
> better words, "contradicted" those findings. No surprise.

The VPython project made no claim that their users did *better* with
case-sensitivity than with case-insensitivity.  THey didn't try to contrast
them.  What they reported is that case-sensitivity wasn't a problem for
their users, which says nothing at all about case-insensitivity; "failed to
confirm" is the more accurate phrasing.

> Stating it as diplomatically as I can, the argument that anything
> of significance could be generalized from Alice's findings was,
> is, and has been flawed.

I personally haven't heard Guido make that argument in ... what ... a few
years?  I believe he still agrees with their conclusions.  Indeed, most
people who come to a correct conclusion do so for *some* suspect reasons
<0.1 wink>.

> Rather than going back to the drawing board and questioning
> himself about where he is looking for evidence, and how
> he is evaluating it - Guido now takes VPython's findings
> about the "/" operator (and its "confirmation" of Alice's
> "findings") as the new testament.

Guido isn't obsessed with Carnegie Mellon.  We have years of reports from
many Python users about the real-life consequences of division semantics,
and VPython is notable primarily because they cared so much they forked
Python to change it.  Should Guido ignore that?  Of course not.

> Or at least seems to expect us to be satisfied with it.

He's given his arguments repeatedly in the division threads; I don't believe
he even mentioned VPython in the last few repetitions; the PEP 238 Rationale
doesn't mention VPython either.

> I happen to remained convinced that any conclusions drawn
> from the VPython reports are simplistically linear as to
> its implications for the inexperienced programmer working
> in the numerical realm within the overall framework of Python.

Please read the PEP 238 Rationale:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0238.html

It doesn't mention Alice, VPython, newbies or CP4E.  The PEP (but not the
Rationale) does mention VPython once near the bottom, but if that's all you
can see I'm not sure it's Guido's deaf ears we should be concerned about
<wink>.

language-design-isn't-a-deductive-science-and-guido-isn't-even-
    a-debate-judge-ly y'rs  - tim




From jessw at loop.com  Thu Aug 16 21:53:18 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:53:18 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
Message-ID: <3B7C169E.22502.19E5BF84@localhost>

Dear kindly snake people,
	I have read about, and downloaded, some of the Python unit 
testing frameworks available, but I have never yet been able to 
actually use any one of them to implement actual _tests_. I wish to 
use unit tests(at least, the kind of unit tests used in Extreme 
Programming(I think))because one of the claims of aficionados of 
this approach is that it helps them get over the problem of how to 
make programs that can't be kept in mind as a whole. This amazing 
feat is done, say the aficionados, by writing the unit tests out before 
the code.  I have both great hope and significant doubts about this 
method.
	I hope, as I said above, that this method will allow me to finish 
various projects I have started and had to abandon because I got 
stuck in binds I could not specifically understand or find out how to 
resolve.  My doubts lie with the thought that it is very difficult to 
figure out what the requirements of a program will be before you 
write the program, and will this method make programming into a 
tiresome, irritating task, even if I can write these bigger programs?
	My question to you all is this:  Do you have any suggestions on 
how to deal with learning to use unit testing in this way, or examples 
of setting up games with this kind of unit testing, or GUI programs?  
Really, any thoughts or comments you might have about this form of 
unit testing, or how to learn to use it, would be very appreciated.

				Thank you all for your time,
					Jesse F. Weinstein



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 19 08:56:35 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:56:35 -0500
Subject: constant in python?
In-Reply-To: <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org>
        <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com>
        <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15231.46979.771506.339035@beluga.mojam.com>

    Alex> Yep.  Besides, rexec and Bastion (could use some spiffying up,
    Alex> but) are pretty good for this.

    Paul> I'll check into those.  However, a true general purpose language
    Paul> should be useable in all environments.

All general purpose languages have some things they are better at than
others.  C, Python, and Lisp are all general purpose languages, but each is
better at some things than others.  If Java is better at web-based security
type stuff for your purposes, use it.  C, Python and most dialects of Lisp
were around before such stuff was commonly done.

when-dueling-choose-your-weapon-wisely-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 16:06:06 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:06:06 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <slrn9ovpna.qb9.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <O6Sj7.66$j9.376@castor.casema.net>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> schreef in bericht
news:slrn9ovpna.qb9.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> In article <gZQj7.55$j9.417 at castor.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit
wrote:
>
> > This site about tkinter really sucks!
>
> That's it, unless you can be a little more polite, I'm done
> trying to help you.

It's very nice of you that you gave me that site, but it don't works.. I
don't know why, i exactly wrote the lines from that site. I really get mad
if it don't works. You go to a site and, it don't works.  That's annoying.
Not your fault. I only say that the site sucks, cause it don't works.

You're on your own.
>
> Bye.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. If I cover
this
>                                   at               entire WALL with
MAZOLA,
>                                visi.com            wdo I have to give my
AGENT
>                                                    ten per cent??




From Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au  Sun Aug 26 22:13:44 2001
From: Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au (Bart Bartels)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:13:44 +1000
Subject: Facilities Management Software.
References: <Pine.SC5.4.21.0108271039340.25671-100000@bubbles.contal.net.au>
Message-ID: <3B89ACD7.46D3BCD8@vu.edu.au>

Andrae,

THANK you.  I think that I will take your advice.  This sounds like a good way
to do the initial development and I will also take John Socha's advise and
take the minimalist approach i.e. start using the software as soon as it
starts to work and refine from there.

I am taking the liberty of posting this to the newsgroup as it is good advice
for any beginner

Andrae Muys wrote:

> Noticed your post to comp.lang.python, thought I might just contribute my
> 2c worth.
>
> I'm a software developer by profession, currently working on an xml
> interface to a travel agency's backend system.  I don't have the time to
> assist you directly with your project, however as I have a moment I
> thought I might contribute some advice.
>
> Work out the minimum amount of functionality required to make the
> application useful to you and implement that first.  I suspect that your
> outline post does that adequately.
>
> To summarise your post:
>
> A four stage workflow for requests:
>  S1 - Enter job requests.
>  S2 - Allocate job requests.
>  S3 - Provide feed back to requester.
>  S4 - Close job request.
>
> With two actions permitted at any point after S1.
>
>  A1 - Add misc info to request.
>  A2 - Generate Reports.
>
> The only reports I would support at this stage would be
>
>  R1 - Show request.
>  R2 - List requests.
>
> This gives 8 tasks that your program would need to do.
>
> Regarding the initial architecture I would *not* use the web.  Personally
> I would write my first version to use plain text files stored in
> directories.  This would be moved to some sort of network
> database/repository later, but the important thing for now is to keep it
> simple and functional.
>
> Specifically I would use a directory layout along the lines of
>
> /<app-root>/new-requests/
> /<app-root>/allocated-requests/
> /<app-root>/closed-requests/
>
> Assuming you don't already have a system for allocating request numbers, I
> would just use the current date & time in seconds, as it is unlikely that
> you will create two requests in the same second :).
>
> So requests are plain ascii text files named 2001-08-23-131231.req where
> that date is 1:12:31pm 23rd August 2001.
>
> The contents of the file would be very simple, and best of all, human
> readable.  Along the lines of:
>
> Requester: Andrae Muys
> Phone Number: x54643
> Email Address: andrae at humbug.org.au
> Problem: Broken door handle.
> Location Room 201 Building 52
> Allocated To: John Doe
> Authorised: Mr P.H.Boss.
> etc...
> etc...
> 2001-08-23-132131:
>
> So:
>  S1 - Creates a request file in the new-requests directory.
>  S2 - Adds required rows to file and moves it to allocated-requests/
>  S3 - Requires notification scheme to do properly, but for now we cheat
> and make it the last step of S2.
>  S4 - Adds required rows to file and moves it to closed-requests/
>
>  A1 - Adds extra timestamped rows to file.
>
>  R1 - Displays the contents of a file.
>  R2 - Displays a directory listing, possibly including a summary of the
> contents of each file
>
> So you write 6 small programs
>
> create_request.py : S1
> allocate_request.py : S2/3
> close_request.py : S4
> annotate_request.py : A1
> list_requests.py : R2
> show_request.py : R1
>
> Once you reach this point you will know enough about the problem to
> intelligently decide how to integrate XML/Web/notification/databases/etc.
> More importantly, you will know enough to decide if and *very* importantly
> WHERE you need to use more complicated technologies.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Andrae Muys



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Aug 26 12:35:58 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:35:58 -0400
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
References: <283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5w9i7.134964$rV6.7269156@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

You should look at Gadflt, but at present it causes warnings on recent
Python distributions because it uses an outdated regular expression package.
Nobody's offered to rewrite it yet ... but it's a very good lightweight pure
Python SQL database.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Kevin Dahlhausen" <kdahlhaus at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e at posting.google.com...
> I'm getting ready to experiment with Webware.  I'd like to use a
> simple database or somewhat efficient persistant store as I'll be
> using the CGI-one shot version of webware and don't want to also have
> to load a complete database into memory.  So, mysql, postgress, and
> such are too heavy. I'll be lucky to find a way to run Webware on an
> isp's site anyway.  Are there any alternative database libraries for
> python out there?  SQL's ok, python objects to disk in some rational
> way would work too, if I could load them without pulling every object
> into memory first.  Thanks




From ahenshawatapowerdotcom  Wed Aug  1 22:39:06 2001
From: ahenshawatapowerdotcom (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:39:06 -0400
Subject: Map generation/plotting
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <tmhfjqlfe1f7e3@corp.supernews.com>

"David Bolen" <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message
news:uu1zrbcz8.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com...
> This is mildly off-topic, except to the extent that I want to use
> Python in the application.
>
> Does anyone have experience with or pointers to libraries or utilities
> that would simplify the job of displaying maps and translating
> locations (aka lat/long) to the map for highlighting?  Think along the
> lines of a network status display where maps of portions of the world
> (US, Canada, Europe, etc..) were display along with indicators for
> currently active locations.
>
> I've found a few spots around with some searching (located a zip code
> to lat/long database, and the Parc map generator which I may want to
> use to generate GIF maps with known lat/long boundaries), but I'm
> wondering if there's anything available that might already have
> covered more of the standard mapping activities.
>

May not fit with your OS of choice, but I've used Python to drive Microsoft
MapPoint through a COM interface.  Pretty slick.

Andrew Henshaw




From manushand at home.com  Fri Aug 31 04:32:00 2001
From: manushand at home.com (Manus Hand)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:32:00 GMT
Subject: Is 0 > None??
Message-ID: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com>

It was in 1.5.1, but it wasn't in 1.5.2 or 2.0 or even (I think) 2.1.

But it is again in 2.1.1.  Aauugghh!  Now I know that maybe I shouldn't
have written code that depends on where None compares to the integer
values, but hey, it sure made for a very handy cmp() function!

Would it be possible to get a permanent decision on this one, please?

If I got my vote, I would like 0 < sys.minint

Version 2.1.1 has 0 > sys.maxint

Thanks,
Manus



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sun Aug  5 09:04:26 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:04:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: ANN: port of Python 2.1.1 to OS/2+EMX
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0106171825490.19448-100000@central>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108052252140.81-100000@central>

I have uploaded a port of Python 2.1.1 to the incoming directories of
the Hobbes (http://hobbes.nmsu.edu) and LEO (http://archiv.leo.org/) OS/2
software archives.

This port, besides updating to the Python 2.1.1 source level, includes the
mpz (GNU MP) and crypt (GNU UFC) modules.  I hope crypto export laws don't
get in the road here.

The distributed archives are:
  python-2.1.1-os2emx-bin-010805.zip (binary installation package, 3.0MB)
  python-2.1.1-os2emx-src-010805.zip (source patches and makefiles, 106kB)

In addition, the following Python extensions are available in binary
packages:
  Numeric (aka NumPy) v20.1.0 (numericpython-20.1.0-os2emx.zip, 490k)
  Konrad Hinsen's Scientific v2.2 (scientificpython-2.2-os2emx.zip, 330k)

More info available at http://www.andymac.org/software.html;
the above archives are also available there if you can't find them
at Hobbes or LEO.

OS/2 users enjoy!

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 23:48:48 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:48:48 -0400
Subject: Python Web Site Copier?
References: <mailman.997580418.1385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B75FCA0.34E26086@engcorp.com>

Paul Sidorsky wrote:
> 
> Has anybody written a Python version of a utility like sitecopy?  
[...]
> Thanks in advance.  My apologies if this isn't completely on topic.

It had the word "Python" in it and it wasn't about snakes.

Never fear, it *was* completely on topic.  :-)


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 11:25:06 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:25:06 -0500
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
In-Reply-To: <6e990e29.0108010328.169affa5@posting.google.com>
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com>
        <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
        <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com>
        <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
        <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com>
        <u8zh4u0b6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
        <lyH97.7737$9i1.681152@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
        <6e990e29.0108010328.169affa5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15208.8018.731116.724524@beluga.mojam.com>

    Hans-J> I would have written a parser for this under Unix, but I prefer
    Hans-J> to have a consistent interface, which means basically getopt()
    Hans-J> (though I did write my own C getopt()).

Ok, I'll bite.  Why write your own C getopt?  There are several floating
around, and there's the standard module delivered with Python.  Option
parsing hardly seems like performance-cricial code.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Wed Aug 15 14:00:27 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:00:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Q] Python and math
In-Reply-To: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108151359480.29115-100000@bagend.vzwcorp.com>

http://lithos.gat.com/~osborne/python.html

lists Multipack as having ODE...

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Young-Jin Lee wrote:

> Hi, I'm wondering if there's a open source python code for solving ODE
> (ordinary differential equations)?
> I want to convert my Java application into Python, but I'm not sure if there
> is a ODE solver written and available in Python.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Young-Jin
>
>
>




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 18 19:54:05 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:54:05 -0500
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xy9ohca12.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1>
        <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org>
        <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
        <7xzo90pw17.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <9lhasm11sek@enews3.newsguy.com>
        <7xy9ohca12.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15231.29.358309.168306@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> The Scheme approach is "globally" incremental but locally "do the
    Paul> right thing".  That is, early versions of Scheme didn't have
    Paul> macros-- they were added later, an example of incremental design.
    Paul> The REASON early Scheme didn't have macros wasn't because no one
    Paul> wanted them, but because the designers weren't sure what the best
    Paul> approach was.  So a bunch of different macro implementations were
    Paul> tested in various Scheme dialects and then they settled on one and
    Paul> put it in the standard.  They didn't add something to the standard
    Paul> and then change it later.

Hmmm... Your wording suggests that you are placing Guido circa 1990 in the
same category as the the Scheme designers whenever they were designing that
language.  He's a talented language designer, but I seriously doubt that his
long range intentions for Python during its nascent period were similar in
scope to the long range intentions of the early Scheme designers.  In
particular, I doubt he had "standardization" in mind.

There was no Python "standard" in 1993 when xrange and lambda were
introduced.  There was just Python.  Today there is just Python and Jython
(and a couple offshoots that people have toyed around with but never
released widely).  There is still no "standard Python" except in the de
facto sense that because the user community has grown large enough and
they've written enough software using Python that making incompatible
changes to the language is more difficult than it would have been in 1993.

    Paul> The current lambda expression in Python seems almost a Perl-ism:
    Paul> one says

    Paul>    lambda x: x*x      # anonymous squaring function

    Paul> instead of

    Paul>   lambda x: return x*x   # make it more like a real function

    Paul> Is it just to save the keystrokes of typing "return" that the
    Paul> functionality is so limited?  I don't see any reason not to be
    Paul> able to put a real multi-statement procedure under a lambda:

    Paul>    lambda x:
    Paul>      if x < 0: return x*x
    Paul>      else: return x*x*x

    Paul> Maybe that can be added without breaking existing code, but why not
    Paul> just do it right the first time?  It's not exactly a "big design up
    Paul> front" to do the obvious thing.

Lambdas are expressions.  If there was a "right thing" that wasn't done when
lambda was introduced to the language it's probably that lambda wasn't left
out of the language, not that it was not made more powerful.  Unlike C,
expressions can't syntactically contain statements.  With Python's
indentation-based block structure it would indeed be difficult to do what
you request.  Here's a simple example of how it's used today (though
obviously a bit contrived):

    vowels = filter(lambda x: x in "aeiou", string.lowercase)

Now, suppose I wanted to turn that expression into a statement:

    vowels = filter(lambda x:
                        if x in "aeiou":
                            return 1
                        else:
                            return 0, string.lowercase)

how should that be parsed?  How does the parser gauge the indentation?  How
does the parser know where the lambda ends and the next paramenter begins?
The standard response when people ask Guido to feed steroids to lambda is
"use def".  It's a good response.  It's simply not worth the effort to make
lambda more powerful.  The language would get uglier, not better.  Python is
not Lisp.  It doesn't have all those nice closing parens to tell where every
language construct ends.

Guido has expressed doubts in the past about ever letting lambda into the
language.  It's too widely used to remove now, but don't expect it to grow
new functionality either.

Lambda and xrange were added to Python about the same time (late October
1993).  Must have been a bad week... ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mepython at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 12:18:01 2001
From: mepython at yahoo.com (Samir Patel)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 09:18:01 -0700
Subject: How to refresh a page after urlretrive
References: <ffd90607.0108071013.3d472401@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ffd90607.0108090818.36c5ae39@posting.google.com>

Thanks.
  I have deleted a local copy of file before calling it again. I found
a way using urlopen using no cache copy and that did work. But I don't
no how to do the same using urlretrive.

mepython at yahoo.com (Samir Patel) wrote in message news:<ffd90607.0108071013.3d472401 at posting.google.com>...
> Friends,
>   I used urlretrieve() to retrieve a page which contains unique
> session id. After processing this page, I did urlcleanup() and call
> urlretrieve() again and unfortunately I am getting same page. If I
> refresh that page through browser (Konqueror or ie doesn't matter), if
> does bring new page. Also if I wait for about 15 minutes or so, and
> call urlretrieve() again, I am getting a new session id. Can somebody
> suggest me what I am missing?
>   Thanks in advance.


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug  1 21:04:16 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:04:16 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>
	 <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B68A710.77C4DF25@ActiveState.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
> <tim.one at home.com> writes
> ....
> excuses and attributions elided.
> 
> No matter who decided what it seems clear that the decision to go to /
> as float had already been taken long before the flamefest took place.

Sure. Guido has had around ten years to think over this decision and the
various arguments pro- and con-. If I where him I wouldn't sit through
an n-th repetition either.

> That makes python's development somewhat less than democratic.

Why do you think we call him a benevolent dictator????? I think that the
Perl and PHP worlds are a little (just a little) more democratic. I
don't like the result.

Anyhow, open source development is the ultimate democracy. If more than
50% (or even more than 1%) of the programmers are unhappy *overall* they
can split off and form their own project. George Bush is in power for
four years and until you get a chance to kick him out you DO NOT have
the option of vetoing or even voting on each and every one of his
decisions either.

> ... We get
> the chance to shout, but the DFL has already made the decision. In other
> words we get to take part in the decision making process if our views
> coincide with the dictator's.

No, you have the option to convince the DFL. Except when he's heard your
argument already, weighed it already and come to a different decision.

> At some point the DFL will make a decision that's wrong. I suppose the
> herd will have another group hug and accept it.

Guido makes lots of wrong decisions. Sometimes he even fixes them. Like
"/". Life goes on. Get used to it. I'm told Presidents of the United
States make mistakes and life goes on then too. I have a strong feeling
that if either Python or a country was run by consensus, there would be
more mistakes not less.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From rob at jam.rr.com  Wed Aug 22 19:47:57 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:47:57 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com> <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <3B844466.1B32A3BD@jam.rr.com>

George Garnett wrote:
> 
> I'm not a python programmer, but I have evaluated the language relative to
> java (yes, I'm a java programmer, and you can assume my opinion on python is
> suspect). No doubt I'm about to be beat up by all your phyton programmers
> for this, but I'm a glutton for punishment. Please, no four letter words or
> verbal attacks about my mother.  Here goes:
> 
<snip />
> 
> Python has been re-written into jpython in which the language closely
> parallels the java language. The main difference is java enforces strong
> type casting (which is good), where jpython does not (its a gimmick to not
> scare off non professional programmers who don't want to take the time to
> verify every line of code is type casted correctly (this is the part where
> I'll get beat up on) ). JPython is billed as a browser side scripting
> language that complements java. This I believe is true. However, java's JSP
> technology came out and I believe jpython's days are numbered (then again,
> considering how quickly technology changes, everything's day's are
> numbered!). JPython is Python's attempt to hold onto all its python
> developers and will provide them with a transition path to java (this is the
> part where I'll get beat up on too) as an alternative to JSP and javascript.
> If you don't already know python, I suggest you jump directly into
> Microsoft's '.net' technology, or java/JSP and skip jpython. The market will
> be split between these two powerhouses for the next 5 years or so. Either
> way, an immediate job isn't likely in these until you come up to speed
> (about a year or two), or until the economy picks up (in about 12 months).
> 

I'm not sure why you expect to be beaten. ;-) It seems to be a real
concern for you. (I see this a lot in people overly abused by curly
braces.) But aside from curiosity about this, I wonder most if your
ideas regarding JPython as you state them here are supposed to apply to
Jython (http://www.jython.org/docs/whatis.html) as well.

<snip />

Rob
-- 
What? Me Useless?
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From eberkain at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 20:46:08 2001
From: eberkain at earthlink.net (eber kain)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 17:46:08 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <mailman.999276835.26705.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b5f84cf8.0108311646.1ddf1f98@posting.google.com>

you lost me, whats dir() do, and how do i use it.

I should have said earlier, im a C++ person, only started looking into
Python a few weeks ago.

If i had a choice of something else i wouldnt use python, but its the
only medium to get the models out of blender.


I really have a hard time understanding how the classes in python
function, and the for statement gives me problems. To be honest i dont
care for the launguage, if I had looked at it before i started C it
probably wouldnt look so odd, not even sure if it was around when i
started in programming.

If anyone who is reading this knows how to use python with blender,
and is willing to work on a script for me some, i would really
appreciate it.

Just express your intrest and ill post details about how i need the
file format to be set up.


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 05:09:35 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:09:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <Xns90FF65D2CC75Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Vassilis Virvilis <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> wrote in
news:3B7AF5AA.977B331C at iit.demokritos.gr: 

> I apologize if this has been brought to the attention of this group
> before. Maybe I did misunderstand the use of the 'is' operator, but
> then how it is supposed to work?

It checks whether two bindings refer to the same object. If 'is' returns 1 
then the objects are the same object, modifying one will affect both 
bindings. If 'is' returns 0 then you can modify one of the objects without 
affecting the other. This of course only really matters for mutable objects 
such as lists or dictionaries as you cannot modify immutable objects at 
all, therefore the compiler can optimise its use of immutable objects in a 
way that might sometimes surprise you. Try:

>>> a = 9
>>> b = 3
>>> c = a/b
>>> c is b, c==b
(1, 1)
>>> a = 90000
>>> b = 300
>>> c = a/b
>>> c is b, c==b
(0, 1)
>>>

So when might you actually want to use 'is'? The answer is not very often 
at all. Scanning the Python 2.1 libraries, almost every use of 'is' checks 
whether an object is, or is not, None. This is a safe alternative to '==' 
as there is only one None object. You can also use 'is' to safely check the 
type of an object. e.g. "if type(x) is types.IntType: dosomething()"
there are other sporadic uses: the copy module uses 'is' when deepcopying a 
tuple, and the difflib module uses 'is' as a quick way to optimise setting 
the sequence to be compared: if setting the sequence to the same sequence 
then it can ignore the call, but an equality comparison on this situation 
could be much too slow.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 15:57:53 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:57:53 +0100
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o06i1.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 17 Aug 2001 05:52:30 -0700, Henrik Ekelund <henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com> wrote:
>We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
>C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
>working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
>work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
>lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?

If you are manually translating the code, I'd estimate tha 1 line
of Python is about 5 lines of C++. Therefore you should estimate whatever 
length of time it takes to write 50,000 lines of C++.

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 18:22:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:22:01 +0200
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9l4b510251b@enews4.newsguy.com>

"jsnyder" <jsnyder at trelis.com> wrote in message
news:9l48os$dg3$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> Hello, I'm a newbie at Python and the solution to the following seems to
> escape me at the moment:
>
> Running from Pythonwin, I am importing a module and then calling its
method.
> Then I change the module code and run it again, but the old code still
runs,
> not the new code.  The only way I have been able to get the new code is to
> shut down the interpreter, restart it and reimport the module.  Surely
there
> is an easier way.

Of course!  The fifth little iconic button from the left, with the tooltip
"Import/Reload" and the status message "Import/reload a Python
module", will open a file-selection box where you indicate your
Python source file; if that's the first time you're importing it, it
does an import, else, a reload (import is a Python statement, reload
a built-in function).

But there's more!  If when you click this toolbar-button the current
MDI child-window in Pythonwin is one with a module being edited,
you don't even have the bother of the file-selection box -- it knows
the module you want to import or reload is specifically the one
in the current MDI child-window.  Nice, isn't it?-)


Alex





From xione at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug  2 04:58:42 2001
From: xione at bellsouth.net (Xione Wrent)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:58:42 -0700
Subject: mod_python, apache and win32:
Message-ID: <dZ5a7.6024$kg.339481@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I'm having a serious problem with getting Python to work with Apache on
Win32.

I installed the mod_python files, the ones from mod_python-2.7.4.tgz in my
Python "Lib" directory under "Lib/mod_python-2.7.4". Then, I took the files
that were in "Lib/mod_python-2.7.4/lib/mod_python/" and moved them up to
just "Lib/mod_python-2.7.4", in accordance with the instructions.

I put the mod_python.dll file in my "Apached/modules" directory, and added
"LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.dll" in my DSO section under
httpd.conf.

I think this is where I'm messing up, but I don't know. Where do I put this,
according to these instuctions?


   Add the following lines in the section ScriptAlias and CGI of the
httpd.conf:

   <Directory "<Your Document Root>">
      AddHandler python-program .py
      PythonHandler mptest
      PythonDebug on
   </Directory>

I don't know exactly where it's talking about.

Could anyone who has mod_python working under Win32 share with me their
configuration? I'd be glad to repay you with hugs!







From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sat Aug 25 12:41:45 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:41:45 -0400
Subject: ANN: Installer release 4a3 (Windows & Linux)
Message-ID: <3B879D09.25733.50C3552@localhost>

This release of Installer brings the Linux and Windows 
versions together.

Windows users get some bug fixes & minor enhancements.

Linux users get everything Windows users have:
 - self extracting executables
 - advanced dependency analysis
 - one download that works with any Python from 1.5 to 2.1

Users of the earlier Linux versions will notice that most of the 
annoyances are gone:
 - scripts are hash-banged and executable
 - executable outputs are chmod'd
 - command line args are more conventional
 - output directory can be specified on the command line

What is it?
 The Installer is a set of tools for distributing Python
 applications. The target machines do not need to have
 Python installed, or may have a different version of 
 Python installed. Installer can create single directory or
 single file distributions of your app.

Old-Python-style license.

Contact: gmcm at hypernet.com

<P><A 
HREF="http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/installer_dnld.html">
Installer release 4a3</A> A compiler-less way of 
distributing Python apps (Windows & Linux). (25-Aug-01)




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 20 20:57:58 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:57:58 -0400
Subject: getting rid of data movement instructions
References: <mailman.998259150.17466.python-list@python.org> <9lqkp8019r@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b818eb2.201580257@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <3B81B216.570AA8C1@engcorp.com>

Mats Wichmann wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:20:59 +0200, "Alex Martelli"
> <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> :"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
> :news:mailman.998259150.17466.python-list at python.org...
> :    ...
> :> This reminds me of the definition of a supercomputer commonly heard in the
> :> 80s:  a supercomputer is a box that turns your CPU-bound problem into an
> :> I/O-bound problem.  IOW-- and take this to heart! --no matter what you
> :> optimize, if you do a good job, one consequence is that "the bottleneck"
> :> moves to something you weren't even thinking about.  Or, as Gordon Bell's
> :> First Law of supercomputer design put it, Everything Counts.
> :
> :Hmmm, isn't the numeric expression of this called Amdahl's Law?
> 
> Yeah, but it's more fun to quote Gerry Weinberg: "If you fix problem
> #1, #2 gets a promotion".

Also re-expressed as one of the principles of Goldratt's
"Theory of Constraints".

5. Don't let INERTIA become the system's constraint. Once 
you have "broken" a constraint, go back to Step One!

(see http://www.constraintsmanagement.com/history/ )


From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Fri Aug 24 17:07:10 2001
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:07:10 -0600
Subject: How big is that canvas in the window?
Message-ID: <9m6fks$2blu$1@newshost.nmt.edu>

Here's the idea:

www.passcal.nmt.edu/~bob/unlinked/images/trdpy.jpg

It's in Python/Tkinter.  See the "Plot" button?  I want to draw a
graph in the black area.  How do I find out the dimensions of the
black canvas area???  I can make a guess when I first draw everything
by setting the size of everything, but I don't want to do that.  I
want the user to be able to resize the window and then redraw the
graph.  I got to exactly this same point in GTK+ and had to give up.
Am I going to have to write this program in Java?? :-)

(The program is actually being written for/on a UNIX box.  I just had
to use a Windows machine to get the screen dump.)

Thanks!

Bob





From gmcm at hypernet.com  Wed Aug  1 18:40:03 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 22:40:03 GMT
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <etdy9p81q8t.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9jvsio$j4r$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <wk8zh31ndh.fsf@mail.connact.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F0BDF8230ABgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155>

phawkins at connact.com wrote:

[lots of good stuff deleted]

> import spammityspam
> spammityspam.open('fxxx')
> 
> works fine too, if you're not concerned by the size of the
> spammityspam module.

Sorry, the size of spammityspam has nothing to
do with it. There's one new name created by
this import (spammityspam), and "open" is 
fetched dynamically from it's namespace.

Unless you meant the size of the name...

- Gordon


From timr at probo.com  Wed Aug 15 01:09:11 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:09:11 -0700
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <al0kntsbemrr6al60k891umqpstvqo49qn@4ax.com>

shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen) wrote:

>I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and the 
>numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages with attachments.  
>I've found various solutions, some of which no longer seem to work, and 
>was quite surprised how this seemingly banal task has caused so much trouble. 
>However, in Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into
>the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they 
>display when the recipient views the message.

Note, however, that the standards for HTML formatted e-mail are still
evolving.  Messages with image attachments in Outlook generally only look
right when viewed in Outlook.

You build your message with MIME type multipart/related.  You put the HTML
text in a text/html part, and then use a series of image/gif attachments to
hold the images.

Chek RFC2557 at http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2557.txt
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Mon Aug 27 06:38:39 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:38:39 +1000
Subject: LSP and constructors with first-class classes
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108261838480.10385-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B8A232F.B9E0373@student.gu.edu.au>

"John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I still can't see what
> the 'right thing' is.
> 
> I have a class, Fit, that is not intended to be instantiated itself: you
> have to subclass it first.  It isn't only an interface, though, it
> implements a lot, too.  Quote from docstring:
> 
> """
>     Subclasses' __init__ method should call Fit.__init__ with the Scan and
>     Data instances as arguments, and then add a Theory subclass as
>     self.theory.  Everything else is optional...
> """
> 
> The constructor takes two arguments:
> 
>     def __init__(self, scan, data):
>         """
>         scan: must have an attribute 'name'
>         data: Data instance
>         """
>         self.scan, self.data = scan, data
>         [...]
> 
> Data is unproblematic.  The 'Scan' is what is puzzling me.  It clearly
> shouldn't be there: some Fits shouldn't even *have* a Scan.  So I'll get
> rid of it:
> 
>     def __init__(self, data):

Not entirely sure what you're trying here, but it was interesting enough
that I've "watch thread"'ed it in netscape messenger to catch the
replies. On your first constructor, would this do?

	def __init__(self, data, scan=None):
		self.data = data
		if scan:
			self.scan = scan


Happy pythoneering!!
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 20:51:10 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:51:10 -0700
Subject: newbie:Strange Error
References: <168b4ef7.0108231542.46647c8f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B85A4FE.CFA4A0D6@ccvcorp.com>

Damon wrote:

> .......

> If i didn't have IdleFork then i would think that the code for
> the script has an error and maybe throw out the whole tutorial
> and find another one,or try to find what's the error in the code.
> But it seems that the code is ok (is it?) and i get an error only
> from the official python interpreter :-)

Well, actually, the "official" python interpreter is the python.exe that
is used by the dos prompt/doubleclick method;  IDLE is a gui environment
that wraps that interpreter.

I'm not sure why you're getting that SyntaxError, however.  I don't
normally use IDLE, so I don't know the usual procedure for running
scripts from it (PythonWin seems much friendlier to me, but it's a
personal preference).  However, I suspect that your problem comes from
the way in which the script is run.  I'm not sure where the reload() is
coming from--is that something you're typing into idle?  is it internal
to idle, and happening automatically when you select a menu option?
or.... ??  I'd guess that either idle is assuming too much about your
script, which idle-fork and python.exe don't, or else you are running
the script in an incorrect fashion through idle, but idle-fork is smart
enough to figure out what you want...   of course, I'm just flailing
about blindly here, so don't put *too* much faith in my guesses.  ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From digitig at cix.co.uk  Wed Aug 22 14:39:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:39 +0100 (BST)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <slrn9ni35f.mpi.Anders@tika.arnholm.nu>
Message-ID: <memo.20010822193933.47989A@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <slrn9ni35f.mpi.Anders at tika.arnholm.nu>, Anders at Arnholm.nu 
(Anders Arnholm) wrote:

> Tim Rowe <digitig at cix.co.uk> skriver:
> > If min is a function and b is an alias for a then it is incremented 
> > twice and returned. Probably a bug.
> > If min is a preprocessor macro and b is an alias for a then it is 
> > incremented twice, returned, then incremented again. Sheesh!
> 
> In short, preprocessor macros are dangerous. Still I haven't  found out 
> how cpp
> works with python. But I'll get there and then there are ALOOT of 
> dangeros
> constructs.

Well, the behaviour I described was ambiguous even before I introduced 
preprocessor macros. I'd be happier without side effects than without 
pass-by-reference!


From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Tue Aug 21 20:40:34 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:40:34 GMT
Subject: input of data from keyboard
In-Reply-To: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
References: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211930390.2562-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Rajarshi Guha wrote:

> Hi,
>   what function can I use to get input from the keyboard (or stdin)?

(I'm surprised nobody responded sooner...) You can use the input()
function, or raw_input() function

>>> print input.__doc__
input([prompt]) -> value

Equivalent to eval(raw_input(prompt)).
>>> print raw_input.__doc__
raw_input([prompt]) -> string

Read a string from standard input.  The trailing newline is stripped.
If the user hits EOF (Unix: Ctl-D, Windows: Ctl-Z+Return), raise EOFError.
On Unix, GNU readline is used if enabled.  The prompt string, if given,
is printed without a trailing newline before reading.
>>>


HTH


-- 
     Thanksgiving is coming on the 4th of July
     In the form of a girl with a needle in her eye...
               -- The Butt Hole Surfers: The Lord is a Monkey

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Aug 12 11:09:42 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 17:09:42 +0200
Subject: CVS & python ?
References: <qVwd7.2357$j33.1062982@nnrp5.proxad.net>
Message-ID: <j4zo952u2x.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"ralf blumenstein" <no at ok.com> writes:

> I am triing to understand if I will be able to share python sources
> with a Spanish programmer.  Is CVS (concurrent version sytem)
> compatible with python ?

You mean, is it possible to share Python sources via CVS? It certainly
is. Please have a look at

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Lib/

As you can see, the standard Python library itself is shared via CVS.
If you are going to share bytecode (.pyc) as well (which you shouldn't
do), make sure to set the sticky -kb option on these files.

Regards,
Martin


From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug  6 18:59:49 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:59:49 GMT
Subject: PEP238, syntax suggestion for floor division operator (not div)
References: <mailman.997132882.31572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FjFb7.77786$EP6.18449847@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

<average_python at safeadd.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.997132882.31572.python-list at python.org...
> This is NOT a post debating whether or not PEP238 should be
instantiated.
>
> ...rather, a (small) suggestion on the spelling for the new floor
division
> operator that does not seem to have been considered.

Major problem: \ is escape char in strings.  eval('a\b') would not do
what you expect.

Terry J. Reedy





From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Tue Aug  7 10:45:02 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:45:02 -0400
Subject: Don't Miss It!
In-Reply-To: <200108071434.KAA30994@ns.ssbiobio.co.cl>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLIEHDCDAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Geez, it's times like these when I think use of a Torjan-Horse-laden
response email would be perfectly justified!

BTW: I think this is the first one of these stupid MLM mailings that doesn't
cite a house resolution in a while.  Does anyone know if that house
resolution actually became *law* (as opposed to simply passed by one side of
the congess)?

Rich




From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Aug 23 01:26:55 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:26:55 -0000
Subject: sys._exit()
References: None <mailman.998520634.27371.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <998544414.810105@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net>:
| On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
...
|> What would be the motivation for a child process of a fork to _exit()
|> instead of exit()? e.g., why wouldn't the child wish to cleanup handlers,
|> flush stdio buffers, etc.? Does anyone use _exit()?

| Because then it would step all over the data of the parent, if it is still
| running.

Well, note that the fork runs in a separate address space and can't
modify the parent's state.  But there are still issues.  For example,
after a failed execve(2) you wouldn't want to flush C stdio buffers
on the way out, because that buffered data was copied from the parent -
imagine a bunch of disk files with extra copies of random chunks of
output.  If the fork is actually writing its own files, then those
should be flushed explicitly prior to _exit.

And sys.exit() raises an exception that you probably don't want to
catch in the fork.

By the way, I think we're really talking about posix._exit() here,
there is no sys._exit().

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From chrishbarker at home.net  Tue Aug 28 18:41:10 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:41:10 -0700
Subject: Numpy - adding a row to a 3d array
References: <9mh38l$1098$1@news.rchland.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <3B8C1E06.63B9CEE9@home.net>

Larry Whitley wrote:
> I'm writing some code where I need to add a row to the end of each plane in
> a 3d array.  The new row will end up with all zeros, the data in the old
> rows should remain as is.  My first thought was Numpy's resize function but:
> What I want is:
> >>> ar
> array([[[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
>         [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
>         [ 8,  9, 10, 11],
>         [ 0,0,0,0]],
>        [[12, 13, 14, 15],
>         [16, 17, 18, 19],
>         [20, 21, 22, 23],
>         [0,0,0,0]]])
> 
> I understand that I'm not likely to get the zeros assigned in one fell swoop

Sure you are. You want zeros() and concatenate():

>>> ar = arange( 24 )
>>> ar.shape = 2,3,4 # 2 planes, 3 rows, 4 columns
>>> concatenate((ar,zeros((2,1,4))),axis = 1)
array([[[ 0,  1,  2,  3],
        [ 4,  5,  6,  7],
        [ 8,  9, 10, 11],
        [ 0,  0,  0,  0]],
       [[12, 13, 14, 15],
        [16, 17, 18, 19],
        [20, 21, 22, 23],
        [ 0,  0,  0,  0]]])


> My solution is pretty nasty.

It sure is!!

>I'm hoping some smart Pythonista can show me
> the light, the way, the truth, ... etc.  :-)

I don't know it it's the light, but I hope it helps!

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From panu at fcc.net  Sun Aug 19 20:17:27 2001
From: panu at fcc.net (Panu Viljamaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:17:27 -0400
Subject: RFD: comp.software.patterns
Message-ID: <3B805717.8E9CCBEA@fcc.net>

RFD: comp.software.patterns

An RFD for the creation of  newsgroup for the discussion of Software
Patterns is currently being proposed.  Please join the discussion in
news.groups if you are interested in such a group.

The official Request-For-Discussion for comp.software.patterns has been
posted to the  following newsgroups:

* news.announce.newgroups
* news.groups
* comp.object
* comp.lang.smalltalk
* comp.software.extreme-programming

proponent:   Panu Viljamaa




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Aug 25 04:58:59 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:58:59 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <20010824161346.J930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251253310.32632-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> BTW: on a totally side thing: can Zope do virtual hosting?

   Short: yes, and you cn do it in many ways.

   First, you can hide Zope behind Apache or other httpd. Initially even
this hiding required some tricks. Later Even Simpson incorported these
tricks into his Product SiteAccess. Currently SiteAccess allows you to
define virtual hosts using a bit too complicated (and hard to debug)
SiteRules. Or Apache + VirtualHostMonster (another object from SiteAccess),
this is much simpler.
   Few days ago I saw an announcement of EnhancedSiteAccess from a 3d
party. There all neccessary SiteRules are already predefined, so you need
only to fill a form mapping your virtual hosts to Zope folders. Things
certainly cannot be simpler, so I think this is the final state of Zope
virtual hosting.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From michael at rcp.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 03:18:56 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:18:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com> <mailman.996787686.29273.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F554E3E4346michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Michael Ackerman <ack at nethere.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.996787686.29273.python-list at python.org:

> 
> 
> "David C. Ullrich" wrote:
> 
>> Exactly what definition of
>> "complex number" do you have in mind here?
>> The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of real numbers".)
> 
> If you define the complex numbers C as pairs of reals, you have given at
> most its structure of real vector space. Then you must define
> multiplication and prove that what you have is actually a ring. But if
> you define C as the quotient ring R[X]/(X^2+1), then you needn't do
> anything more. This definition is often used, e.g. in MacLane &
> Birhkoff's "Algebra", the most categorically oriented basic algebra
> text.  
> 
> -- Michael Ackerman


Actually, this is kinda amusing: I thought I'd try writing a Complex class 
using the representation above (ie, the value of a complex number is a 
polynomial, and equality is modulo X^2+1); in this case the only real 
complexity (sic) is implementing equality and division by quotienting by 
X^2+1 -- but then I realised that I might as well quotient my 
representation by X^2+1 throughout.
    Then, surprise, surprise, it turns out that we recover the standard 
(real,imaginary) presentation of reals.  Of course this isn't all that 
surprising, given that X is there precisely to represent the root of 
X^2+1=0.


From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Mon Aug 27 21:44:37 2001
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 21:44:37 -0400
Subject: Real.py
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBGLIAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBGLIAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <87lmk5rm9m.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> Such a happy idea!  Why not use SourceForge itself?  If someone volunteers
> to set up a Python Contrib project there, it's no problem getting them
> access to the old contrib tarball.

The Pythonic project was designed (thanks to jkraska), with this sort
of thing in mind.  

How would you want the old Python contrib archives entered?  As a
large CVS archive?

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
"There is no subject, however complex, which--if studied with patience
and intelligence--will not become more complex." New Speaker's Handbook



From dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu  Mon Aug  6 12:23:45 2001
From: dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu (Dylan Thurston)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 16:23:45 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>

In article <cp66cd12yp.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, Guido van
Rossum wrote:
>When I released Python 2.2a1, the type/class unification feature was
>announced as TENTATIVE.  It's been a while now (feels like a year,
>although I realize it's only been 10 days :), and I would like to see
>some feedback on this.

The larger picture seems a little complicated for me to understand
right now, but I have a specific complaint:

The 'list' class/type has a method '__getslice__' (etc.), which uses
the old and very broken interface.  I want to define a subclass for
which this interface is insufficient.  If I want the new interface, I
have to figure out how to hide that method.  [Does anyone know how to
do this?]

Let me complain a little about the slicing interface while I'm at it.
I don't understand why missing endpoints are turned into 0/maxint
(rather than, say, 'None') before calling __getitem__; it removes a
lot of flexibility.  Also, why are the slices restricted to being
integers?  I can imagine, say, slicing a 2-dimensional array based on
the endpoints (like 'delete-rectangle', etc. in Emacs).

Best,
	Dylan Thurston



From geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu  Mon Aug 27 10:45:29 2001
From: geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Brian E Gallew)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:45:29 -0400
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>

Then <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979 at smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>, Brian E Gallew wrote: spoke up and said:
> The os.spawnv() function is simpler to use:
> 
>   for tar_file in tar_file_list:
>       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT,"/bin/tar",("xzvf",tar_file))
> 
> I haven't tested this, so I'm sure there's a typo somewhere...

Yes, os.spawnv() is easier to use, but it's only available on Windows.
os.fork() is only available on Unix.  This restriction is noted in the
1.5.2 documentation (which I'm still using).



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 23:08:50 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:08:50 -0700
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <7xofp0yj7h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

That's bad, because the underlying random number generator isn't so great.

If you're running linux, you should get random data by reading bytes
from /dev/urandom.

Btw, I have a comparable passphrase generator on a Javascript page,
at http://www.nightsong.com/crypto/dice.php
if you'd like to try it.


From gradha at iname.com  Sat Aug 25 11:47:30 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:47:30 +0200
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
References: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <iah8m9.pic.ln@127.0.0.1>

> Promptly most of my scripts give SyntaxWarnings under Python 2.1.1...

Forgot to say exact warning message:

./test.py:0: SyntaxWarning: name 'expresion_include' is assigned to before global declaration

-- 
 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at terra.es   http://gradha.infierno.org


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 20 11:15:53 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:15:53 -0700
Subject: Overflow-less integer arithmetic?
References: <mailman.998292870.23050.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8129A9.DB57C75F@alcyone.com>

Tim Peters wrote:

> You're getting screwed by the hex literal:  you're doing
> 
>     long & int
> 
> so the int part gets converted to long first.  But 0xffffffff is -1 as
> a
> short int (on a 32-bit box), so coerces to -1L, i.e. to an infinite
> string
> of 1 bits.
> 
>     i & 0xffffffff == i
> 
> is thus always true on a 32-bit box, regardless of the value of i, and
> regardless of whether i is short or long.  Stick an L at the end of
> the hex
> literal to get 32 1-bits, which is infinitely fewer than you're
> getting now
> <wink>.

Aha!  Longs are unbounded, so I don't want to and it with -1l, I want to
and it with 1l << 32.  I seem to recall trying to get the effect I
wanted with 0xffffffffl and it didn't seem to work, but I may have just
goofed it.

Thanks!  (For the record, I did want 32-bit signed ints, so preserving
the sign is fine.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But in matters fundamental / We are patterned on an old design
\__/ Oleta Adams
    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From norman at earth.ox.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 04:42:30 2001
From: norman at earth.ox.ac.uk (Norman Charnley)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:42:30 +0100
Subject: Setting defualt font in Tkinter
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010808094103.12987F-100000@wowbagger>

Is there a way to change the default font in Tkinter for all applications
(using Python 2.1 under RedHat Linux 7.1)? 

I know I can set it specifically when I am creating widgets, but it would
be useful to have the default a little more readable. 

In particular, when I fire up Idle, the menu font (not the editing font,
which IS configurable) is awful, and although I can mostly fix it up by
poking about in EditorWindow.py, that seems a messy way to have to go.

Thanks in advance for any help....

Norman

 =================================================
 Dr. Norman Charnley
 Department of Earth Sciences
 University of Oxford
==================================================



From jannokusman at hot.ee  Thu Aug  2 09:53:22 2001
From: jannokusman at hot.ee (Janno Kusman)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:53:22 +0200
Subject: compiling standard python modules
Message-ID: <3B695B52.4040104@hot.ee>

Hi!

I'm trying to compile python to embed platform running NetBSD on MIPS 
based CPU. I have managed to compile python executable and it seems to work.

I can't figure out how to compile standard modules like time and math. 
Compiling is done under Windows using Cygwin based tools so I can't use 
compiled python to run setup.py. I tryied to run setup.py using windows 
python, but it figures out platform and compilers wrong.

I would preciate if someone could guide me how to compile standard 
modules manually - how python finds and uses modules, maybe it's 
possible to compile modules into python executable?

regards,
Janno



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 21 20:36:07 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:36:07 -0700
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing  if statements...)
References: <mailman.998401650.6829.python-list@python.org> <9lu1nr02nbs@enews4.newsguy.com> <u1ym5atdm.fsf_-_@advancedmp.net> <mailman.998438072.21490.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xzo8t0w3s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

> This always seemed pretty clumsy to me.  I prefer to use exceptions:
> 
>     class done(Exception): pass
>     try:
>         for i in range(len(mylist)):
>             for j in range(len(mylist[i])):
>                 if some_predicate(mylist[i][j]):
>                     raise done
>     except done:
>         do_stuff_with(mylist[i][j])
>     else:
>         print "didn't find anything interesting..."
> 
> YMMV.  Some people hate the construct.  I think it's pretty Pythonic.

It's very normal do that in Lisp using catch/throw.  Yet more evidence
that Python is just Lisp without parentheses :-)


From jschmitt at vmlabs.com  Fri Aug 10 15:32:04 2001
From: jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:32:04 -0700
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
Message-ID: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B6823@eden.vmlabs.com>

I'm running Windows 2000 and I'm trying to install 2.2a1 when I get this
error message.  

I've got ActiveState 2.1 installed currently.  What happens when I install
2.2a1 - do I need to change registry settings or do I need to simply set
environment variables?  I don't recollect how do have two installation at
the same time.

John



From new_name at mit.edu  Wed Aug 15 11:14:35 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 11:14:35 -0400
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com> <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <3B7A6B92.B18EEE3E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <etdsnet4ap0.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Oh, I missed that case.  Thanks.

Alex.


From gorny at hobbiton.org  Sat Aug 25 05:24:04 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:24:04 +0200
Subject: Compiling extension module
References: <lrqh7.38054$Vs4.359583@zonnet-reader-1> <etdy9o9ofv4.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <v8Kh7.41578$Vs4.366615@zonnet-reader-1>

Alex <new_name at mit.edu> schreef in berichtnieuws
etdy9o9ofv4.fsf at lola-granola.mit.edu...
>
> python setup.py install --prefix=/scratch/tmp/my_installation_prefix

thanks Alex,
It works fine... ;-)

Greets,
Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Aug 16 13:06:40 2001
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <mailman.997979553.20974.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-4134A3.10064016082001@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.997979553.20974.python-list at python.org>,
 "Dr. David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:

>     % python check_url.py
>     http://msnbc.com/nonsense (200, 'OK')
>     http://msnbc.com/ (302, 'Object moved')
>     http://w3c.org/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
>     http://w3c.org/nonsense (301, 'Moved Permanently')
>     http://w3c.org/Consortium/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
>     http://ibm.com/ (200, 'OK')
>     http://ibm.com/nonsense (404, 'Not Found')
> 
> I tried a few sites to get these examples... but not all *that* many.
> All the sites that end in 'nonsense' LOOK, to my human eyes, like broken
> links... and all the others look like content (well, except msnbc.com,
> which refuses to load--I think because I won't give it a cookie--and
> wouldn't actually be other than nonsense if it would load :-)).

I don't know about the msnbc examples, but the 301 from w3c is telling you 
something useful -- it prefers to be called www.w3.org.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Aug 11 14:25:44 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:25:44 -0700
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997551144.17014.python-list@python.org> <3B757993.F6BB0492@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B7578A8.5E8A46B5@alcyone.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Of course, there's nothing that says every atomic
> piece of data has to be put into a separate element
> in XML.  Since the above is to be manipulated by
> code, the following would be in many cases just as
> capable a format, and probably easier to manage:
> 
> <myproblem:recordset>
>   <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
>   <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
>   <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
>   <record>0 0 0 0</record>
>   <record>0 0 0 0</record>
> </myproblem:recordset>

This wouldn't be a reasonable solution if, say, each of those
subelements (a through e) are optional, which it appears might be the
case (since in the last two lines it is d that is missing, not e).

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If you don't take chances, you can't do anything in life.
\__/ Michael Spinks
    REALpolitik / http://www.realpolitik.com/
 Get your own customized newsfeed online in realtime ... for free!


From breakfast at 10.am  Mon Aug 20 12:19:39 2001
From: breakfast at 10.am (mallum)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:19:39 +0100
Subject: Does Python need C++ to compile ?
Message-ID: <20010820171939.A658@10.am>

Aloha all;

During a ./configure of the Python source, I noticed it check for the
presence of a c++ compilier ? I thought Python was strait c ? Is it
possible to compile Python without any C++ dependancies ?

many thanks;

Matthew Allum



From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug  8 20:00:07 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:00:07 GMT
Subject: emacs python mode
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a> <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <slrn9n2ouh.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081229340.1093-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <slrn9n3kco.206.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:34:37 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Alexandre Fayolle wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:50:03 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth
>> <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >(note:  I had another reason for sending the last one, I wanted to know
>> >what else Emacs in Python mode could do.)
>>
>> Well it *did* sound like a wild troll.
> 
> Yes, I'm sorry.  I wasn't thinking for the common good of the people.  I
> should be burned at the steak...
> 
>> Emacs python mode brings you an easy way to access the classes and
>> methods in your file through a dedicated menu. You get easy ways of
>> indenting/de-intenting blocks of codes, same thing for commenting out
>> or un commenting blocks of code.  You can also work on the interpreter
>> or debugger within emacs to run/debug the code you're editing.
> 
> (I formatted that, using Vim, by the way...no offense) Spiffy!  That
> class method menu sounds like a cool feature!  I thought that whole
> web-page was devoted to a file that just gave you highlighting and
> indenting...  I now know why Emacs users like it so much!
> 
> Sorry, again!

I have a small vim script that prints all functions in current file, 
colorizing them. If you want that, email me..
> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From p.caven at ieee.org  Wed Aug 15 03:22:41 2001
From: p.caven at ieee.org (Peter Caven)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:22:41 GMT
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>

Hello Python Optimizers  :-)

After reading PEP 266, I coded the following:

=================
# Tests for speed improvements provided by PEP266
import math

def PEPTest1():
    c = 100000
    while c:
        l = []
        for i in range(10):
            l.append(math.sin(i))
        c -= 1

def PEPTest2():
    c = 100000
    while c:
        l = []
        f = l.append
        m = math.sin
        for i in range(10):
            f(m(i))
        c -= 1

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import profile
    profile.run('PEPTest1()')
    profile.run('PEPTest2()')

================
The profiler reported:

>>>          3 function calls in 4.579 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.000    0.000    4.579    4.579 <string>:1(?)
        1    4.579    4.579    4.579    4.579 PEP266Tests.py:5(PEPTest1)
        1    0.000    0.000    4.579    4.579 profile:0(PEPTest1())
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)


         3 function calls in 3.141 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.000    0.000    3.141    3.141 <string>:1(?)
        1    3.141    3.141    3.141    3.141 PEP266Tests.py:14(PEPTest2)
        1    0.000    0.000    3.141    3.141 profile:0(PEPTest2())
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)


>>> 3.141/4.579
0.68595763267088883
>>>

So it seems that *without* the execution of the proposed TRACK_OBJECT and
UNTRACK_OBJECT there would be about a 31% improvement.
Unless I'm missing something fundamental, if the compiler can be made smart
enough to know where to put TRACK_OBJECT and UNTRACK_OBJECT then why can't
it do the code transformation as above?

Confused,
Peter.







"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997834943.22786.python-list at python.org...
> I wrote:
>
>     For those people on python-list who have no idea what this thread is
>     about, please be patient.  Once Barry Warsaw assigns a PEP number to
it,
>     I will announce it to python-list.
>
> Barry worked his magic, and you can now read the current (first) draft of
> PEP 266 at
>
>     http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0266.html
>
> Cheers,
>
> Skip
>




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 04:00:04 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:00:04 +0200
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
References: <zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <9lt4e501fhs@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Dev Null" <dev__nu11 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783 at paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
> Yeah, okay.  It looks like just another ordinary little bunny in front of
a
> cave's mouth.
>
> But in reality, it's much deadlier.  It's a Python newbie.
>
> Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?

The Tutor mailing list, for example -- see
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


Alex





From grante at visi.com  Mon Aug 20 14:56:47 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:56:47 GMT
Subject: using floats/ints in print and write
References: <9lrm06$ausj5$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrn9o2nf8.8h2.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <9lrm06$ausj5$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>, Rajarshi Guha wrote:

>   does'nt python 2.2 allow me to use float/int variables in a string 
> context. That is I can't write:
> 
> print a + 'hello'

That's not allowed.  Python has no way of knowing whether to
covert a to string or 'hello' to the type of a.

> where a is float or int. Right now I'm using fpformat.fix() to get a string 
> value. Is there any other way?

If you're familiar with C's printf() you can use the "%"
operator:

>>> "int=%d, float=%5.2f, string='%20s'" % (4,1.234,"foobar")
"int=4, float= 1.23, string='              foobar'"

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node9.html#SECTION009100000000000000000

[That's section 7.1 of the tutorial, just in case the URL
doesn't work for you.]

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PARDON me, am I
                                  at               speaking ENGLISH?
                               visi.com            


From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 26 07:44:17 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:44:17 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <mailman.998796398.21253.python-list@python.org> <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b88ddd1.500819830@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:54:16 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:25:42 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
>wrote in comp.lang.python in article
><mailman.998796398.21253.python-list at python.org>:
>
>:[Sheila King]
>:> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
>:> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?
>:
>:msvcrt directly exposes some library functions supplied by, and unique to,
>:Microsoft.  So, like it or not (I don't like it myself <wink>), Microsoft is
>:the only entity who can answer questions about them with authority.  FWIW,
>:the docs MS supplied with MSVC 6 say their _locking function works under
>:"Win 95, Win NT", which *usually* means "everything after Win 3.1".
>
http://starship.python.net/crew/jjkunce/python/ntposixfile.py

might be useful?
Note from my other post: Microsoft example code for _locking uses
_sopen rather than fopen (or _open). The s in _sopen is for shared
file access, so I wonder if python's builtin open is affected, since
it uses fopen.

The ntposixfile.py seems to go to __builtin__.open() as well, though,
so if _sopen does something different and required, the same problem
should appear. Hard to believe there wouldn't be more noise on google
about it though, if _locking didn't work with fopen, unless people
just quietly give up and go on to the win32 api...



From gmcm at hypernet.com  Fri Aug  3 16:49:24 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 20:49:24 GMT
Subject: Problems creating an app with the McMillan installer
References: <mailman.996864853.20111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F2AB378F1F0gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155>

[posted and mailed]

Don Dwiggins wrote: 

> I have a little wxPython script that I want to package as an .exe. 
> I've tried both py2exe and McMillan's installer, and was defeated both
> times. 
> 
> This message is about my experience with the McMillan installer, v. 4a2
> (with ActiveState Python 2.0.0.203).  I've included quite a bit of the
> gory details, hoping that something may point to the problem.

And indeed it does. I screwed up in building the zip.

Copy the "setupcom.py" from projects/test/COMclient/test_Standalone/ to 
support. The one in currently support only works with older versions of
Python. In my Python 2.1 testing, I realized that the directory win32com
(which I create to hold gen_py) has to be another level deep, else my
import hack doesn't get used. So I fixed it, but forgot to copy up to
the support folder.

- Gordon


From fred at arakane.com  Mon Aug 20 11:57:19 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:57:19 GMT
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com> <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <13285ea2.0108200703.1a0184ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zrag7.57591$MC1.19638528@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"J.Jacob" <joost_jacob at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13285ea2.0108200703.1a0184ab at posting.google.com...
> Uhm, any code that compiles and run and receives no warnings can not
> be "wrong", can it ?  Nothing is deprecated unless the latest stable
> version says so i think.

Either you forgot a smiley, or you live in Dreamland  :))
...





From spahievi at vega.bg  Thu Aug  2 16:22:41 2001
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:22:41 +0300
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <45da7.22037$WD1.1394095@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
References: <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
 <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at> <mailman.996694262.6913.python-list@python.org>
 <slrn9mgq4u.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
 <45da7.22037$WD1.1394095@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <1472049406.20010802232241@vega.bg>

8/2/2001, 17:07:32, Steve Holden wrote:

SH> "William Tanksley" <wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net> wrote ...
SH> [ ... ]
>>
>> Oops, I just realised that using 'class' as a variable name can't possibly
>> work: the parser can't currently disambiguate
>>
>> class = myClass
>>
>> from a class declaration, since both start with the token "class".
>>
SH> I've spent a couple of minutes trying to remember if I ever wrote

SH>     self = something

SH> Nope, don't remember that. Which isn't to say it might not be meaningful in
SH> some context I haven't imagined.


class some(other):

      def me1(*arg):
          other.me1(*arg)
          self = arg[0]
          self.foo = bar

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev




From knight at baldmt.com  Fri Aug 17 12:28:31 2001
From: knight at baldmt.com (Steven Knight)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:28:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: ANNOUNCE:  work-in-progress SCons design doc available
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108171118130.8140-100000@theopera.home.baldmt.com>

A work-in-progress design document for the Python-based SCons software
construction tool is now available at the SCons documentation page:

	http://www.scons.org/doc.html

The SCons design document is available in HTML, PDF, and PostScript.

The design document is very much an in-progress work and will change in
response to additional discussion and input. In particular, the document
has a number of sections where questions are open, input is needed, etc.
Input on these issues (or any other) is very welcome.

The design is largely based on the ScCons design from last
year's Software Carpentry contest, with changes based on
ongoing discussion on the SCons development mailing list:

	scons-devel at lists.sourceforge.net

An initial alpha release of SCons, containing support for an initial,
minimal subset of its functionality, is currently targetted for release
within the next three months.  (Now we'll see how close we come to
that... :-)

	--SK




From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Fri Aug  3 05:09:28 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:09:28 +0200
Subject: MySQL module
References: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu> <9kdhfh$3lp$1@news2.kornet.net>
Message-ID: <3B6A6A48.5010700@___skynamics.com.invalid>

Guillermo Kim wrote:

> Maybe here ...
> http://www.mysql.com/Downloads/Contrib/MySQLmodule-1.4.tar.gz
> 
> another ..
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mysql-python/


Forget about the first one, it's outdated and unmaintained.

Gerhard
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 21:27:47 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:27:47 +1000
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022117410.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022117410.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <01080311274707.14602@ike>

On Friday 03 August 2001 11:21, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Richard Jones wrote:
> > Hey, this is a fun conversation I'm having with myself here :)
>
> I'm glad you're enjoying it.
> I haven't been able to get a word in, myself!

Thanks for the following anyway :)


> > >>> import imp, sys
> > >>> imp.load_module('instance', None, '/tmp/roundup', ('', '', 5))
> >
> > <module 'instance' from '/tmp/roundup/__init__.pyc'>
> >
> > >>> sys.modules['roundup']
> >
> > <module 'roundup' from 'roundup/__init__.pyc'>
>
> There's also:
>
>      imp.load_package( name, path )
>
> ( which doesn't appear to be in the documentation. )

And does work, and is much cleaner. Thanks!


> You might also want to add:
>
> 	sys.modules['instance'] = instance

No, I just need the instance in the local namespace, so this isn't necessary.


> What is 'roundup' ?

It's my implementation of Ping's software carpentry submission :)

   http://roundup.sourceforge.net/



      Richard



From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 23:27:20 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:27:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: low level device control
In-Reply-To: <3B83C1A8.4010608@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108222311190.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Greg Saunders wrote:

> First, let me state that I am a python newbie but absolutely love the
> language and am having a great deal of fun with it. Hail to the BDFL.
>
> Here's the challage and I'm not exactly sure where to start.
>
> I need to control two pairs of pin outs on a hardward device. The device
> has four pin outs. PIN1 sends a 12 volt pulse and is returned to ground
> via PIN2 if the two are shorted. PIN3 and PIN4 are either shorted, or
> not, putting the device in ready/not ready state respectively. The pulse
> on PIN1 needs to be read and counted (one count per pulse).
>
> PIN1 - pulse
> PIN2 - used to return pulse to ground if shorted
>
> PIN3 - creates a circuit with PIN4 if closed
> PIN4 - as above and puts the device into READY if shorted with PIN3
>
> Here's what I want to do. I want to use python and a serial connection
> to read the pulses on PIN1 and be able to open and close the circuit
> programmatically on PIN3 and PIN4.
>
> I can hack together a custom cable to tie into the harness.
>
> My program knowledge is limited and my python knowledge is even more
> limited (but I'm learning quickly :-) but not quick enough). I've
> scanned throught the "termios" library reference but it does not appear
> to be what I'm looking for.
>
> Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Greg Saunders

Unfortunately you have more than just a programming problem. You have the
additional problem that there is nothing in PC hardware that is even capable
of doing what you need. Serial ports use around +12 and -12 volts, and
parallel ports use 0 and +5 volts. You can do what you want through the
parallel port, but you need a few things first:

1) a circuit to connect to pin 1 that emits +5 volts when +12 volts is input,
2) a +12-volt source to connect to pin 2 via a relay or MOSFET, and
3) a relay or MOSFET(s) that can short-ciruit pin 3 to pin 4.

I can help you more with the hardware part if you'd like off-list.

For the software part I'd suggest write a module in C (it's not THAT hard...)
that will access the parallel port directly, possibly doing most of the work
of the application. I can help you with that as well.

Of course, the more you do in hardware, the less you'll have to do in
software.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 27 06:21:31 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 03:21:31 -0700
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
References: <MPG.15f43279f613af34989682@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <9md77b$1hup1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Using the two dicts you already have, you could rip through one, building a
new dict where the data from the first forms the key of the new:

matches = {}
for ky in trione.keys():
    matches[trione[ky]] = [ky]

Then add the matching triangle from the second to matches:

for ky in tritwo.keys():
    matches[tritwo[ky]] .append(ky)

matches then contains the nodes as the keys with the data per key being the
triangle numbers from trione and tritwo.

This works as long as the data can serve as a key, and the sequence of the
nodes is the same in trione as tritwo.  You'll need to adapt as required.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Marcus Stojek" <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.15f43279f613af34989682 at news.easynews.net...
> Hi,
> first let me say that I'm new to Python and that I really love it.
> Finally I can spend my time solving my problems and not fighting with the
> programming language.
>
> Okay, here is what I do. I have two files (ASCII), each of them
> containing a huge amount (let's say 100.000) triangles. The format is:
>
> Number of triangle,number of first node, number of second node , number
> of third node \n
>
> node are corners of the triangle here. Each node has three coordinates in
> space, but we don't need them here.
>
> The two files are describing exactly the same group of triangles, but the
> triangles are numbered differently in the two files. So the triangle
> containing the nodes (12,49583,331) has the number 5 in one file and the
> number 23094 in the other one. As two triangles can share two nodes I
> have to compare all three nodes for all triangles.
>
> I have two dictonaries:
>
> trione={number triangel:1.node,2.node,3.node}
> (key and values are integer)
> tritwo=as trione
>
> def common(list1,list2):
>     hit=0
>     for i in list1:
>         for j in list2:
>             if i==j:
>                 hit +=1
>     return hit
>
> for t1 in trione.keys():
>     for t2 in tritwo.keys():
>         if common(trione[t1],tritwo[t2])>=3:
>             out.write("%i;%i \n" % (t1,t2))
>
>
>
> Works fine but it takes years. I tried to remove from the dictionaries
> the triangles that already have been identified to reduce data.
> (using pop or slicing) but this slowed the process even more. I know I
> could speed up things by breaking the loops in common() when one node
> from list1 is not in list2, but for future use I have to deal with shapes
> containing more than three nodes.
>
> Any idea how I could significantly improve perfomance? In "Programming
> Python" I learned about tuple stacks, binary search trees and graphs but
> I'm not sure whether one of those will help. Do I really have to creep
> back to C? If so, can anyone tell me how to get my dictonaries into a C
> routine? (I know I have to use SWIG, but a little example would help a
> lot.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Marcus
>



From alexander.rebholz at monkey-design.de  Fri Aug 10 13:03:21 2001
From: alexander.rebholz at monkey-design.de (Alexander Rebholz)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:03:21 +0200
Subject: protection of directories
Message-ID: <9l144q$j2v$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi there,

I don't  know  nothing at all about python. Unfortunately I have to modify a
pyhton script anyhow. The problem is the following. A user has to fill out a
form which will also ask for a password. That form is forwarded to a pyhton
script. With this script the filled out content of the form is forworded via
email. Furthermore if the password is correct the user will get access to
certain directories. Well now the problem: If a user knows the correct link
of the "password protected" directory, he can get there without filling out
the form. So I guess I do need a script which will check out whether the
user did fill out the form before. Can that be done with python? Or is there
any other simple solution?

TIA, Alex




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sat Aug 25 14:35:55 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:35:55 GMT
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
Message-ID: <feSh7.174252$g_3.29600684@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Quite a while ago, there used to be packages on Matrix Math and Complex
number Math.
What is the status on these packages?  I can not find either.
For those who use Scientific packages:  which ones are recommended for
Matrices and Complex numbers?
Maan




From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 16:10:14 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:10:14 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Py 1.5.2 -> Py 2.1.1 broke regular expression?
In-Reply-To: <3B758E97.95B5D69C@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108120001100.12166-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Stefan Schwarzer wrote:

>Hello
>
>I have a program which _ran fine with Python 1.5.2_ but fails with Python
>2.1.1. Its purpose is to extract IRC log sessions from several log files
>and sort them into one file in the correct order (by date/time).
>
>To do this, it uses (in effect) something like
>  re.compile(pattern).findall(log_lines)
>
>That works fine with the pattern string
>  ^Session Start: \w{3} \w{3} .*?^Session Close: \w{3} \w{3} .*?$
>but raises a
>  RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
>in re.compile(pattern).findall(log_lines) when used with the pattern
>  ^IRC log started \w{3} \w{3} .*?(?=\012IRC log started \w{3} \w{3} |\Z)
>
>First, I thought it was because of the number of IRC sessions but the program
>fails with the second pattern even for few (5) sessions. It used to handle
>much larger numbers.
>
>Any hints? A bug or a change in the regular syntax; anything else?

I too encounterd such problem even without "(?=" construct... and it
healed itself when I reduced the number of lines in the file.
I was in hurry and forgot to record conditions of trouble.
But I remember I too used cross-end-of-line patterns ("\n"-s)
but not \Z.

It is not safe in Python 2.x to let re's loose on some big file.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/





From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 22:29:48 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:29:48 GMT
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python  Path Blues)
References: <mailman.998260230.20102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wC_f7.478049$lq1.92074298@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Tim
I'll look at it.  My confusion is coming from the fact that the Oracle
python package DCOracle2 will not run unless I include it in PYTHONPATH
environment setting.
Maan

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998260230.20102.python-list at python.org...
> [Maan Hamze]
> > ...
> > how come that the libs that come with pythonwin (regular python libs,
> > not only the ones that are win32 specific) depend heavily on the
> > registry but the ones that are added later by the user can not depend
> > solely on the reistry but on PYTHONWIN setting in environment?  This is
> > disturbing.  Please note that Pythonwin and Python are still reading the
> > PYTHONWIN setting in the environment but they do not create it.
>
> Nothing in the core Python distribution looks at PYTHONWIN, so I'm not
sure
> what you're saying there.  I don't know what PythonWin does, though.
>
> The best docs about what Python on Windows does are in the long comment
> block at the top of
>
>     PC\getpathp.c
>
> in the source distribution.  If you read those and disagree with them,
best
> to sort it out with Mark Hammond (and, yes, those comments "should" work
> their way into the docs -- patches, as always, gratefully accepted).
>
>




From fschaef at ces.clemson.edu  Sun Aug  5 22:24:05 2001
From: fschaef at ces.clemson.edu (Schaefer, F.)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:24:05 -0700
Subject: Input File & Command Line Parsing
Message-ID: <3B6DFFC5.C12B5D0A@ces.clemson.edu>

This weekend the Input File and Command Line parser 'GetPot'
has been ported to Python. See:

	http://getpot.sourceforge.net

GetPot allows a very sophisticated parsing of command line arguments
such as 

	myprog xfz v0=123 image-mode='24 RGB 0.1 0.5. 0.7' \ 
               --help --sos -size 34.312 31234 -I/usr/include \
               -D/usr/lib/etc/
               

Moreover, it contains a parser for input parameter files.
Syntax highlighting of these files is supported by 
a 'getpot-mode' for emacs.

Please feel free to send any feature requests or bug reports.

Best Regards,

Frank


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 19:36:34 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:36:34 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998159307.24342.python-list at python.org...
> Paul Rubin:
> > I dislike the runtime system and the doctrinaire OO culture that's
> > grown up around Java, but having constants, and rigorously enforcing
> > protection of private class members and methods is one thing Java did
> > right.
>
> If you believe that then Python might not be the language for you. The

OTOH, he can get the worst of both words (from his POV) -- Java's
runtime (JVM) and libraries (doctrinaire OO) *AND* Python's lack
of enforced protection -- in Jython:-).

> problem with enforcing privacy is that the designer can seldom
> anticipate all of the possible uses of their code and placing arbitrary
> access restriction can make it impossible for the user to accomplish
> their task.

Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient and a language that lets
me workaround a limitation in the design of a framework or library
I need to use is just what I need.


> > It makes the "applet sandbox" very straightforward.  This
> > is useful for web browser extensions but also for security
> coprocessors
> > (Dallas Java iButton, Nci)
>
> Python is a general purpose programming language and its design should
> not be significantly compromised to make a particular (uncommon) usage
> more convenient i.e. security environments.

Yep.  Besides, rexec and Bastion (could use some spiffying up,
but) are pretty good for this.


Alex





From shriek at gmx.co.uk  Fri Aug 17 03:01:10 2001
From: shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 00:01:10 -0700
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <97ae44ee.0108162301.1e5300f0@posting.google.com>

> It's actually fairly easy using mimelib.  Note that
> 
>     http://mimelib.sf.net
> 
> contains a pretty up-to-date description of the library API, but it is
> missing an examples section.  That's on my to do list.

I'm sure that will lead to much greater adoption. Thank you.

>     S> Also if I read between the lines of some posts in the archive,
>     S> is it safe to assume that mimelib is the way to go for future
>     S> MIME manipulation?
> 
> That's the intention.  Guido has given me the green light for adding
> mimelib to Python 2.2's standard library, and I intend to work on that
> over the next several days.  I've got a few bugs and improvements to
> work out, and a little bit more documentation to right, but I think
> it's quite useful as is.  I also think it has a flexible enough
> architecture to provide room for expansion as time goes on.

Good to hear. At least I feel comfortable going to the bother of
learning the in's and out's. 

> One question though: while I original wrote mimelib to handle the
> MIME-specific tasks, it really is shaping up to be a general mail
> handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
> "maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too
> generic.  So while mimelib will be able to replace even rfc822.py (at
> least at the API level initially, perhaps later at the implementation
> level too), we may just have to live with the misnomer, unless someone
> can come up with a good -- not too clever, but descriptive -- name.

As per following posts, would agree that messagelib is good. Mimelib
really is a bit nuts-and-bolts-are-your-friends-ly.


> Have you looked at the unit tests that come with mimelib?  There are
> enough examples there to get the basic feel.  For example, look at
> test_multipart.py for an example of how to create a MIME message
> containing a plain text part and an image attachment.

Now, this was an eyeopener. I initially deleted the download package
after installation. Maybe want to copy these tests over to the install
directory too ?

Stephen

ps. So, do the cravindogs get an email every time somebody installs your 
software ? :-)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 15:11:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:11:17 +0200
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com> <9l5jiq0lf8@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B76745B.714278C9@adaptiveplanet.com> <049301c1233c$e98fa640$0300a8c0@arthur> <3B76B9D2.8EEC8815@adaptiveplanet.com>
Message-ID: <9l6kir0urm@enews2.newsguy.com>

"wim delvaux" <wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com> wrote in message
news:3B76B9D2.8EEC8815 at adaptiveplanet.com...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> > Hello Wim,
> >
> > > Question remains.  How can I get access to the PyString_Type variable
> > > (buffer) declared in the extension module (if I remember)
> > > for those abstract objects, if you do not know the name of the buffer
> > > but only the name of the type.
    ...
> > Incidentally, PyObject_IsInstance(PyObject* obj, PyObject* type)
> > is generally a better way to typecheck than checking for type objects
    ...
>     Where does that PyObject_isInstance get the second argument from.  Is
> that again that PyString_Type pointer or somewhere else ?

Yes, it's a PyObject* to the type object, such as PyString_Type -- it's
fetched just the same way any other type object is.


Alex





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Aug 29 13:36:44 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:36:44 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq892.96i.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <MK9j7.54164$c8.24157345@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9oq892.96i.grante at isis.visi.com...
> The OP stated that float(a)/b was fine, and he wanted a way to format the
FP
> result of that expression.  The OP was told he could use "%.2f" to format
> his results.  That's the simplest way to do what he asked, and AFAICT it
> produces correct results.
>
> You seem to be telling the OP that he's wrong, float(a)/b isn't good
enough,
> and he shouldn't be using floating point?

That is essentially what I was saying.  I read the OP's question as "How do
I calculate a/b accurately to two decimal places?", and that's the question
I answered.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From tavis at calrudd.com  Thu Aug  2 14:01:22 2001
From: tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:01:22 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64@posting.google.com>

Graham,
I think you might have gotten the wrong impression about what Cheetah
is, how it works and what it's capable of.

http://www.CheetahTemplate.org/learn.html

Graham Dumpleton wrote
> at applying this to though, as I am not sure an approach like Cheetah
> gives sufficient power to interact with the back end system. I guess
> this derives from the fact that I am not really after just a templating
> system for HTML pages. 

Nothing about Cheetah's core is HTML-specific. It's a code-generator
that can be used to generate any sort of text output.  Also, if you
don't like using '$' to mark out your insertion points you can change
it to any other character sequence: a useful feature if you are
generating PERL, shell or PHP code from Cheetah.

> Although with a template system like Cheetah you might be able to map a
> function to a particular exported method of a service, as far as I can
> see, it would always be the case that such a function must return text
> capable of being included into a web page. 

Cheetah works with any type of data, not just text. It doesn't force
you to do anything like that.

> With PSP, the method of a
> service object could return some data structure, which the in place code
> could iterate over to produce the actual HTML.

Like PSP, Cheetah can iterate over data structures in place.  Please
take a look at the Cheetah Users' Guide for more information:
http://www.CheetahTemplate.org/learn.html
Again, nothing about Cheetah's core is HTML-specific.

> To this end, approaches relying on Python
> scripting in some form, such as PSP or PTL may result in a system more
> able to harness the features of the back end system.

Cheetah has a plugin that enables PSP, if that's what you really want.
 However, *SP style coding quickly becomes a tangled mess.  Cheetah
was designed to provide a cleaner separation of content, graphic
design and program logic than the *SP languages.

> In the architecture I have, I guess I am uncomfortable about having code
> related to presentation mixed up in the service objects. 
> I suppose that
> some service objects may specifically relate to presentation, but in the
> main I would want to preserve the idea of services returning data related
> to the model, rather than a view of that model.

Ditto. That's exactly why I dislike PSP, PHP, etc. and is why we
created Cheetah.
 
Cheers,
Tavis


From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Wed Aug 22 12:13:19 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 16:13:19 GMT
Subject: Am lost in ObjetLand... (BaseHTTPServer class hierarchy)
Message-ID: <Xns9105B9AA19A20PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

Another newbie question...

I was playing with BaseHTTPServer.py and got stumped with a (seemingly) 
simple question :

The module defines these classes :

class HTTPServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):
 (...)

class BaseHTTPRequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
  (...)
    def date_time_string(self):
        (...)
  (...)

then a function that serves as "main" :

def test(HandlerClass = BaseHTTPRequestHandler,
         ServerClass = HTTPServer):

    server_address = ('', 8000)
    httpd = ServerClass(server_address, HandlerClass)
    httpd.serve_forever()


The question is : can I use the date_time_string() method of 
BaseHTTPRequestHandler inside the 'test' function ? If so, how ? At first I 
thought the 'httpd' instance of HTTPServer should know about that method 
somehow, but now I'm not so sure :)

TIA - and sorry if this is stupid,
fp

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug 13 15:35:16 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:35:16 +0200
Subject: networking
References: <20010813125337.3d63028a.pstraus@acad.stedwards.edu>
Message-ID: <k5a9l9.d36.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:00:38 GMT, Phillip Strauss wrote:
>Can someone point me to any online reference to networking with python?
>Socket I/O and that sort of stuff.  I always seem to leave my python books at
>home when i need that at the office. :|

http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/sockets/sockets.html

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From sam at ddmweb.com  Tue Aug 21 17:15:40 2001
From: sam at ddmweb.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:15:40 -0700
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation???? 
Message-ID: <01082114571903.01062@frock.ddmweb.com>

[Maan, digging in to the cgi.FieldStorage API, discovers how crufty it
is]

0) You provide the keep_blank_values argument like this:
Test_Form=cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1). 

IMO this should have been the default, and I always use it this way.
As has been noted, however, this will not solve all of your problems.

1) If you are going to do significant work with cgi on Python, you will
want to wrap or subclass the cgi.FieldStorage object into something a
little easier to work with. Notably, if cgi.FieldStorage had a get
method, you could just use that when you weren't sure if a key would be
present. Consider this script:

#!/usr/bin/env python
import cgi
class FieldStorageWrapper(cgi.FieldStorage):
    def get(self, key, default=''):
        if self.has_key(key):
            return self[key]
        else:
            return default
        
form = FieldStorageWrapper()
print 'Content-type: text/html\n'
print form.get('foo', 'no foo here')

Call this as a cgi without a 'foo' argument and you will see 'no foo
here'. However, if you call it with 'foo=bar', you'll get:
MiniFieldStorage('foo', 'bar') 
instead of the 'bar' you were looking for, so what you need is your
subclass to read: 

    def get(self, key, default=''):
        if self.has_key(key):
            return self[key].value
        else:
            return default

...but if you have an incoming form with more than one value for a key
here, you'll get an Attribute Error, because self[key] will be not a
MiniFieldStorage object whose contents are in a value attribute but
rather a list of FieldStorage objects whose contents are in *their*
.value attributes rather than something logical like a list of strings.
What you really want to is to get rid of the whole .value thing. This
requires (?) wrapping FieldStorage. Chuck Esterbrook did so for Webware
in a class called HTTPRequest:
<http://webware.sourceforge.net/Webware/WebKit/Docs/Source/Files/HTTPRequest.py.html>
I used that as the basis of my own, much simpler (and cruder) wrapper
class which I am happy to share if anyone wants it. BTW, Webware is a
wonderful project. If you do much Python web programming, you should
check it out for good ideas at a minimum.

2) If you think that all of this is an indictment of the current Python
library, you're right. The BDFL does not seem to agree, however. I spent
considerable time thinking about writing a replacement for the
FieldStorage class, but foundered when I realized how little I knew
about why it used recursive object-birthing to parse MIME headers:

    FieldStorageClass = None
    def read_multi(self, environ, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing):
        """Internal: read a part that is itself multipart."""
        self.list = []
        klass = self.FieldStorageClass or self.__class__
        part = klass(self.fp, {}, self.innerboundary,
                     environ, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing)
        # Throw first part away
        while not part.done:
            headers = rfc822.Message(self.fp)
            part = klass(self.fp, headers, self.innerboundary,
                         environ, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing)
            self.list.append(part)
        self.skip_lines()

If someone can help me get past that, I might take another whack at it.
In particular, I'm not sure whether the recursion is important for
avoiding N^2 worst-case performance, or whether it's just the nifty
kind of thing you do if you are as smart as Guido. Maybe the timbot can
show us how to do it with generators...



From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 21:40:18 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:40:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: socket question
In-Reply-To: <20010823011658.73432.qmail@web14909.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108222136010.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, noprianto wrote:

> - What AF_INET is, what SOCK_STREAM is.

AF_INET is IPv4. Similarly, AF_INET6 is IPv6, AF_UNIX is UNIX sockets, etc.

SOCK_STREAM is TCP, and SOCK_DGRAM is UDP, SOCK_RAW is raw sockets, etc.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From joonas at olen.to  Tue Aug 14 08:00:02 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:00:02 +0300
Subject: Something wrong with pdb in Python2.2a1
Message-ID: <3B7912C1.4903C14C@olen.to>

Is there something wrong with pdb in Python2.2a1 because it dies
instead of catching the exception.
See session below.


C:\>cat pdb_test.py
#!/python/python

import pdb, sys
print sys.version
print pdb
pdb.run("""
def zero():
    return 0

print 5/zero()
""")

C:\>python16 pdb_test.py
1.6 (#0, Sep  5 2000, 08:16:13) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]
<module 'pdb' from 'C:\PYTHON16\lib\pdb.pyc'>
> C:\<string>(0)?()
(Pdb) cont
> C:\<string>(2)?()
(Pdb) cont
> C:\<string>(5)?()
(Pdb) cont
ZeroDivisionError: 'integer division or modulo'
> C:\<string>(5)?()
(Pdb) quit

C:\>python22 pdb_test.py
2.2a1 (#21, Jul 18 2001, 04:25:46) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]
<module 'pdb' from 'C:\PYTHON\lib\pdb.pyc'>
> <string>(0)?()
(Pdb) cont
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pdb_test.py", line 6, in ?
    pdb.run("""
  File "C:\PYTHON\lib\pdb.py", line 882, in run
    Pdb().run(statement, globals, locals)
  File "C:\PYTHON\lib\bdb.py", line 352, in run
    exec cmd in globals, locals
  File "<string>", line 5, in ?
ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

C:\>


From grante at visi.com  Mon Aug 27 12:11:39 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:11:39 GMT
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185 at smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>, Brian E Gallew wrote:
> Then <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979 at smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>, Brian E Gallew wrote: spoke up and said:
>> The os.spawnv() function is simpler to use:
>> 
>>   for tar_file in tar_file_list:
>>       os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT,"/bin/tar",("xzvf",tar_file))
>> 
>> I haven't tested this, so I'm sure there's a typo somewhere...
> 
> Yes, os.spawnv() is easier to use, but it's only available on Windows.

I use it under Linux.

> os.fork() is only available on Unix.  This restriction is noted
> in the 1.5.2 documentation (which I'm still using).

Yikes, that was 3+ releases ago!  2.0 came out almost a year
ago, don't you spend every Friday updating your Python
installation? :)

I didn't realize we were discussing 1.5.2.  I assume people are
using a fairly recent version unless they specify otherwise.
Under 2.1, spawnv is available for Unix. I don't remember if it
was in 2.0.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm DESPONDENT... I
                                  at               hope there's something
                               visi.com            DEEP-FRIED under this
                                                   miniature DOMED STADIUM...


From toflatpy2 at oaktown.org  Tue Aug 28 03:58:03 2001
From: toflatpy2 at oaktown.org (toflat)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 00:58:03 -0700
Subject: Extreme newbie.. looking for a push in the right direction. Need to find text in a file and then display
Message-ID: <48dbc3f6.0108272358.19747602@posting.google.com>

Hey There,

I still pretty new to this and hope this question isn't too lame. I've
been digging around ( and learning) the documentation but just can
figure out how to do this.

I have a file with a repeating predictable format. 

ie:

<name>
fname lname
1
name
address
whatever
yada..
</end name> 12345

So.. the record format is always:
Line 1. opening <name> tag
Line 2. record title (most often a first and last name) the opening
<name> tag, Line 3. a number (this number has no significance)
Lines 4-?. the record information.
Last Line. </end name> 12345

I would like to write a script to search the file for a name and then
display the record.

So it would...
A> search for the name (record title). 
B> upon finding a match, the line containing the match is saved
(record title)
B> replace this number with a blank line in results
C> each following line is saved (added to record) up to but not
including...
D> the end marker (</end name> 12345)

The script then displays the result to the terminal

ex:

searching the file for a record with "o'maley" in the title.
source file:

<name>
Frank O'Maley
1 
Frank O'Maley
1234 VeryDark Alley
Dublin, Ireland
011 123 45 45 9
yada yada
</end name> 12345

Would return:

Frank O'Maley

Frank O'Maley
1234 VeryDark Alley
Dublin, Ireland
011 123 45 45 9
yada yada

This is I've been pouring over the documentation and think I
understand how to use
the re module to find what I'm looking for. However I'm at a loss when
it come to
actually using what it finds. I don't know how I can get it to save
the line that contains
the search result. And I do not know how to get it to keep adding
lines (and modifying) until
it comes to the end marker.

Sorry for the rambling message. Any pointers would be greatly
appreciated!

Thanks!
-T


From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Aug  8 06:16:40 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 03:16:40 -0700
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <840bdd8f.0108080216.6dffdbc9@posting.google.com>

"Joseph A. Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3B700C33.1D161BAC at earthlink.net>...

> PEP proposal: add a backtracking Horn-clause resolution

> engine to Python!

> 

>  :-)

> 

> This problem is a two-liner in Prolog:

> 

> one_of_each([],[]).

> one_of_each([H|T],[H1|Ts]) :- member(H1,H), one_of_each(T,Ts).


It is in Python too:

def permute(a):
    if len(a) == 0: return [[]]
    return [[x] + y for x in a[0] for y in permute(a[1:])]
 

Actually, it needs all of three lines if you count the func def ;-)

Just for fun, does anyone know how to move the 'if' into the list
comprehension to make it a one-liner?


From nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk  Wed Aug 22 08:47:40 2001
From: nde at comp.leeds.ac.uk (Nick Efford)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:47:40 GMT
Subject: Advice for imaging
References: <mailman.998443171.30900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GIGzJI.DqK@leeds.ac.uk>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:17:35 +1000, Tom Harris <tomh at optiscan.com> wrote:

> I looked at the Python Imaging Library but unfortunately it does not appear
> to support 16 bit pixel images. 
> Since speed is not really an issue, I was thinking in terms of a simple
> class that is attached to an image that is able to iterate over it in
> various ways, and get/set pixel values.

Tom,

If you absolutely need to preserve 16-bit values during processing,
you should perhaps consider using Numeric.  You could write an
image class with Numeric used for internal representation of the
data.  Algorithms from the Numeric package would do some of
the image processing for you; others, you would probably have
to implement some algorithms in C for speed.  (Pixel-by-pixel
processing implemented in pure Python can be _really_ slow...)

I have an image class that wraps around PIL, with methods to
export data to or import data from a Numeric array.  Let me know
if you want to take a look...


Nick


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug  9 23:48:38 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:48:38 +1200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.996843727.12021.python-list@python.org> <cpd76dxeni.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996865026.20984.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B735996.97E41F40@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> 
> I don't see it as an arbitrary boolean. I see it as a very fixed
> structure:
> 
> 'except' varname 'in' 'class' ExceptionName[, ExceptionName]* ':'

The trouble is that if "x in class y" were also
a valid expression, the new and old except
syntaxes would conflict.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  1 15:18:03 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:18:03 -0400
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <mailman.996258542.15795.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4u16rx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996270412.11895.python-list@python.org> <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996616382.9383.python-list@python.org> <cpsnfcxwrw.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996682622.19966.python-list@python.org> <slrn.pl.9mgfg4.hch.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <gyY97.18908$WD1.1059910@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote in message
news:slrn.pl.9mgfg4.hch.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda...
> Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:15:27 -0700, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com>
pisze:
>
> > Second, I think that this might be worth adding new syntax for one
> > reason. The current syntax for exception-type trapping is extremely
> > error prone and nasty and it is essentially the same problem. I
> > could imagine:
> >
> > try:
> >     foo()
> > except exc isa OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError:
> >     pass
>
> Instead of commas an operator could be used which produces an object
> whose __contains__ tests whether the given object belongs to either
> of arguments. Obvious candidates are | or +, so
>     try:
>         foo()
>     except OverflowError | ZeroDivisionError:
>         pass
> works and
>     if obj in (int | float)
> works using the same mechanism. Or maybe with + instead of |.
>
What you seem to be requesting is that

    class <op> class => tuple_of_classes
    class <op> tuple_of_classes => tuple_of_classes
    tuple_of_classes <op> class => tuple_of_classes

since in that case the tuple's __contains__ method will return the truth
value you require. The current syntax for multiple exception types surely
means there's and implicit "exception in tuple" test? Or am I missing
something?

If not it's hard to see the advantage of allowing such a construction when a
tuple already does what you want, and also removes syntactic ambiguity which
might otherwise occur due to operator precedence.

so-i'm-probably-missing-something-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 14:52:56 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:52:56 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net> <3B8CF936.4E20B7E8@student.gu.edu.au> <Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8D3A08.20686879@ccvcorp.com>

jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> Thank you all so much. I'll just go to www.python.org to download it all.
>
> (my pc is:   os - Windows ME (it sucks!)
>                   processor - AMD duron 800 mhz (sucks too)
>                   RAM - 128 (getting 128 extra next saturday...)
>
> I'm 14 years old and program only form the fun.

Heh.  Well, I'm 32, program partially as a hobby and partially
professionally, and your computer is faster than any of the PC's I have
regular access to, excepting our servers here at work.  Neither I nor my
company can afford to upgrade every year or two...    so don't worry too much
about your PC's quality.  Now, your OS on the other hand...  <wink>  (fwiw, I
do primarily use Windows, but generally prefer Win98se to WinME...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Aug 19 17:46:24 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 16:46:24 -0500
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com> <1rzo8yn4e0.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9ljgdm023oi@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1rbslbbu4v.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    Alex> Yes, but not with Boost Python -- generally such weirdness
    Alex> results from wrong reference count handling in the extension
    Alex> (addref/decref not correctly matched) and Boost Python in my
    Alex> experience handles those for you smoothly and without
    Alex> errors.  Strange...

I found (I think) the source of the problem.  I was calling something
like

d = Date()
print 'the date is %s' % d

but had not defined __str__ to boost::python.  However, the C++ class
did overload operator<<().  Since I have provided __str__ to boost
python, I have had no problems....  Eg,

std::string 
py_Date_to_string( const Date& d )
{
  return d.get_sql_datetime();
}


Date::Date(boost::python::module_builder& m)
  : boost::python::class_builder<Date >(m, "Date")
{

 [snip]
  def(py_Date_to_string, "__str__");

}


Apparently boost::python attempts to call operator<<() when it needs a
string representation of the object if __str__ is not defined.
Perhaps the implementation of this is buggy, perhaps something else is
going on.

Regards,
John Hunter


From bvdpoel at uniserve.com  Wed Aug 22 22:59:21 2001
From: bvdpoel at uniserve.com (bvdpoel at uniserve.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:59:21 -0700
Subject: optional args for getopt()
Message-ID: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com>

Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I can
set an option string to something like:

	opts = "hg:b::"

which means that 'g' needs an arg and that 'b' may have an arg. Seems
the python routine is lacking?? 

-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at uniserve.com
WWW:   http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel



From paul at boddie.net  Thu Aug  2 05:50:00 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 02:50:00 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa@posting.google.com>

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:<3dofpzk3vq.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
> ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) writes:
> > The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
> > substitutions. These include ZPT, Ehydra and others. There is a *ML
> > like kit for Webware, but I don't think any serious time was put into
> > it, hence it is hard to recommend (for Webware).

You might be referring to my package, which I would like to develop
further if I only had the time. I get the feeling that it's too
different from what people expect in a template system, though.

> I've become quite fond of PTL's Python-based syntax.  Here's an
> explanation of why (quoting from a not-yet-public article):
> 
>         This syntax is quite different from most HTML templating
>         languages, which usually look like HTML with magical
>         delimiters (e.g. <%...%>, <?...?>, <!--#... -->) sprinkled

Horrible, isn't it? ;-)

>         throughout. After we'd been using the Python-inspired PTL
>         syntax for a while and found we quite liked it, Neil
>         Schemenauer came up with an explanation for why it works so
>         well. Most templating languages assume the content is mostly
>         HTML with just a few small bits of program code here and

I would say that most "small" template languages are like that, but
DTML, JSP and ASP surely support almost any kind of textual document.
Only supporting HTML in a template system is far too limiting in my
view. Enhydra's XMLC seems to be constrained in certain additional
undesirable ways, such as having the need to generate template
"handlers" in advance.

[...]

>         Without its authors ever realizing this while designing it,
>         PTL turns the idea of HTML templating on its head: the default
>         is program code, and there's an escape sequence into HTML,
>         namely Python's notation for string literals, which is compact
>         and easily readable. Functions that actually contain HTML
>         therefore can look a little messy, but that's only in the
>         lowest-level functions; the bulk of our PTL code simply calls
>         other PTL templates.

But doesn't this help to obscure the form of the final document? I was
once an advocate of building pages up from well-defined, "trusted"
components which represent a particular concept, but there are some
situations where logical components of a document don't just fit into
a self-contained part of a document; for example, attributes of
objects that one is trying to represent may be mixed together into
adjacent cells in an HTML table.

> Of course, we don't care about people using graphical HTML editors;
> that would be impossible to accommodate with PTL.

What would be interesting is a template environment where one can
visualise the final form of the template and interact with it, without
having to go through stages of rebuilding and refreshing it, along
with the potential of the document "breaking" and requiring low-level
intervention.

I thought that W3C's Amaya might lend itself to such applications, but
that just has to be added to my list of things that I would like to do
if I only had the time.

Paul


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 14:45:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:45:51 +0200
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
References: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>
Message-ID: <9l3uqe01n1l@enews4.newsguy.com>

[posted and mailed]
"Chris Eidhof" <chris at eidhof.com> wrote in message
news:9l3sdq$5as$1 at cyan.nl.gxn.net...
> Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under win98,
the
> webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but it didn't
work.

IMHO, the easiest server in the world to set up under win98 is Xitami,
www.xitami.com.  Specifically, you need (this or the equivalent from
any nearer mirror) one self-installer of less than 800KB:
http://users.skynet.be/sky37432/bw3224d9.exe

To run CGI scripts, after installing this to (e.g.) D:\Xitami, just place
the scripts under D:\Xitami\cgi-bin (you have many other possibilities
too, and it's easy to configure them).  If your Python installation
is, e.g., at D:\Python21, just make sure each script starts with:

#!D:\Python21\Python.Exe -u

basically as one would under Unix -- Xitami uses this line to find
the interpreter to be used, just like Unix shells do.

Xitami offers other easy-to-use possibilities (LRWP, its protocol
for long-running web-processes, had R. Dunn as the architect,
and so of course it works great for Python [as well as for other
languages]), but serving CGI, normal static files, SSI (via, sigh,
a Perl filter:-), PHP 3 (I'm told -- haven't tried it), is a snap.


Alex





From anamax at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 10 18:34:42 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 15:34:42 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108100815.77884faf@posting.google.com> <997465342.347061@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108101434.3d6ce6e4@posting.google.com>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<997465342.347061 at yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>...
> Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
> | Well, if we're restricting ourselves to statically typed mainstream
> | languages, they're all basically C for the purposes of this discussion.
> 
> From the "shootout" figures, OCaml would be one place to look.  This
> is not at all an endorsement of OCaml over Python, OCaml in general,
> the shootout benchmarks, an assertion that OCaml is a mainstream
> language, etc.  It does appear to be a faster option, without C's
> liabilities.

I mentioned "mainstream" because niche languages (python, ocaml, etc) don't
become mainstream by through superiority over other niche languages.  They
become mainstream through superiority over mainstream languages on important
applications.

> When we came in, if I recall the early posts to this long thread,
> someone made everyone upset by suggesting that Python's lack of
> static typing was a liability for acceptance in the industry.
> I don't know if it's true, you may or may not agree.  It isn't
> worth rehashing that all over again, but the performance benefit
> was only a beneficial potential side effect - some people actually
> have the demented view that static typing is an asset in itself.

I'd agree that static typing's benefits wrt program comprehension
exceed its benefits wrt performance, but that wasn't one of my options.

Frankly, I doubt that any of the "industry pushback" is actually
because of typing or performance, even when they're stated as a reason.
 
> | So, how many of YOUR applications would be significantly improved
> | if they were 2x faster?  Be specific?  What would you give up for
> | that speed?
> 
> Python is a good choice for the things that Python is good for.

My question has nothing to do with whether those applications are
written in python.  It is aimed at determining the relative importance
of performance.  It is aimed at determining when additional performance
would matter.

Here's another way to look at it.  Acceleration is an important aspect
of a car's performance.  Yet, people are for the most part satisfied with
cars that don't accelerate nearly as quickly as current technology can
provide, and that's been true for years.  This suggests that current
acceleration performance is "good enough" so it's time to work on other
things.

I'm suggesting that we're starting to reach the point where the same
is true of programming languages.  (The Java hit should have proved
this point, but ....)  We've reached that point wrt databases.  Yes,
there are still some applications where the relational overhead matters
(and many more where the cost of conversion is exceeds the benefits
of switching), but ....

-andy


From mats at laplaza.org  Fri Aug 24 11:28:18 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:28:18 GMT
Subject: Real.py
References: <mailman.998630257.32703.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b866ab2.213637133@news.laplaza.org>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:16:31 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote:

:[Alex Martelli]
:> Hmmm, there definitely seems to have been some major recent
:> restructuring of ftp.python.org and all of its mirrors -- I
:> can't find real-accurate.py anywhere either.
:
:When python.org got rehosted about a month ago, a decision was made to drop
:the old contrib directories.  They hadn't been maintained or updated in a
:couple of years, and huge steaming mounds of the content appeared to have
:become irrelevant (or worse) in the interim.  Most of the few things of real
:value are better gotten elsewhere now (e.g., John Skaller's Interscript has
:a home on SourceForge now; doctest is now in the std library; and so on).
:
:Unfortunately, there are at least a few cool packages that lived only there,
:like Jurjen's N.E. Bos's amazingly compact implementation of the
:constructive reals.  Nothing I can do about that, but if some group from the
:community would like to sift through all of it and provide a new home for
:the parts worth salvaging, I bet we could talk Guido into handing over an
:archive tarball.

I stumbled across this not too long ago when I was looking for
something - I don't remember the context any longer.  Seems like we
need a new repository for useful little bits of code, bigger than
"recipes" at ActiveState, but smaller than full SourceForge projects.
Parnassus isn't a repository, it just provides the links (the thing I
was looking for I had tried to get "from" the Vaults). Apparently the
problem on ftp.python.org was that stuff got put there, and then there
was no maintenance on the directory so there was a whole bunch of
obsolete stuff.

I'd like to volunteer to help, but I have pathetic connectivity
(barely-working dialup line that chugs along at 21k most of the time)
so I can't provide storage.

Mats Wichmann



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 03:30:55 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:30:55 +0100
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com>
 <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org>
 <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com>
 <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org>
 <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net>
 <mailman.996809786.30007.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ehc2fLAvMla7EwVU@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.996809786.30007.python-list at python.org>, Paul
Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes
>Rich Holm wrote:
>> 
>>...
>> 
>> I don't want to start a flame fest, but...
>> 
>> Where did you hear this?  It was Borland that popularized the C++
>> on Windows paradym.  Microsoft was WAS behind the curve at the time.
>> The Borland class libraries were/are vastly superior to MFC.  Too
>> bad they lost out in the end.
>
>My impression was that C++ was a relatively unimportant language
>(relative to C) until Microsoft adopted it. That gave it a huge boost
>and essentially forced most C programmers to become C++ programmers.
>
well I have VC++ and it's a pretty good C development environment. I'm
fairly sure it doesn't pass any recognised C tests though. I don't think
anyone's forced by M$ to use C++ and I'm fairly sure C represents a lot
of the internals of Win32.
-- 
Robin Becker


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 17:48:48 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:48:48 -0400
Subject: Real.py
In-Reply-To: <3b866ab2.213637133@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOALHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mats Wichmann, on the old python.org contrib directory]
> ...
> Seems like we need a new repository for useful little bits of code,
> bigger than "recipes" at ActiveState, but smaller than full SourceForge
> projects.  Parnassus isn't a repository, it just provides the links (the
> thing I was looking for I had tried to get "from" the Vaults).
> Apparently the problem on ftp.python.org was that stuff got put there,
> and then there was no maintenance on the directory so there was a whole
> bunch of obsolete stuff.

Yes, and there were about 400 files, and whenever anyone "had a problem"
with one of them, their email wound up in Guido's or Barry's inbox.  The
time drain on them was considerable, and *most* contributors ended up
getting an account on the Starship and putting their current work there
anyway.  The contrib directory was thus, for the most part, akin to an
elephant burial ground.

Plus Guido maintains that anyone who wants to build a web page of their own
can now, which wasn't true when the contrib directory was created.  I agree
with him in theory, although I've sometimes noted to myself that, for
example, *I* haven't gotten around to putting up a web page yet <wink>.

The thing that overlooks is that some contributors have simply vanished, and
I know at least one who died, and if web sites are still too much a pain for
some of the living to set up, corpses are right out.

[Hernan M. Foffani]
> I'll be honored to host those packages. I have 10 MB free on my site
> which is hosted in the USA.  Email me if you think that my offer would
> help.

I expect it's the "editorial" process that's the real pain here:  digging
thru 400 files and figuring out which are worth preserving.  I have a copy
of the archive on my home box, and it's 25 MB.  The size isn't as bad as it
sounds, since e.g. 7 MB of that is old versions of Interscript and 2.5 MB is
old versions of SWIG, but there are still 100s of files to plow thru.




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 21 01:08:07 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:08:07 +1000
Subject: [Q/newbie] Converting object names to strings and back?
In-Reply-To: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com>
References: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <01082115080705.02447@ike>

On Tuesday 21 August 2001 14:32, Adam Twardoch wrote:
> I'm trying to write the contents of some Python objects to a text file. The
> output should look like
> objectname + "=" + objectcontents
> objectname + "=" + objectcontents
>
> Then, I want to read that file and store the objectcontents in the
> respective objects.

Note that unless you're doing this for reasons of radability or editability, 
Python already has facilities for dumping and reading objects to and from 
files. Look up pickle and marshal in the standard library reference.


> My question: how can I determine the name of a particular object, or,
> precisely, convert it to a string? And then, when I have a string (for
> example "MyObject.property"), how can I make Python find the object with
> that particular name?
> 
> I know that in Perl, constructs like $$variable can help.

First up, you need to know what namespace you're working in. Python's name 
lookup works through two namespaces to find things: locals and then globals. 
To emulate the perl, you're going to have to do both. Also, if your string 
has attribute accesses like your example above, you'll want to split it up to 
walk the names correctly.

object, attribute = "MyObject.property".split('.')
global_d, local_d = globals(), locals()
if global_d.has_key(object):
  object = global_d[object]
else:
  object = local_d[object]
attribute = getattr(object, attribute)

>From my memory of Perl, the closest to a direct translation of the perl code 
is:
   attribtue = eval("MyObject.property")

... but eval should be considered dangerous (as should $$variable I think) if 
the source of the string is not "trusted". The first solution is far safer, 
using explicit introspection techniques.


       Richard



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 10:57:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:57:06 +0200
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru><mailman.997037168.27615.python-list@python.org><9klek202s3b@enews4.newsguy.com> <mailman.997103177.15032.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kmb5l012mf@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Fran?ois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.997103177.15032.python-list at python.org...
> > > With a broad enough perspective, FORTRAN is a good AI language! :-)
>
> [Alex Martelli]
>
> > We mostly used PL/I (and Rex for prototyping, way before it acquired
> > that second 'x':-),
>
> Did you ever use one of those lenient, forgiving, auto-correcting PL/I
> compilers?  Whenever you made some error, the compiler wrote "Assuming
> that ..." and moving on with compilation.  It amused us to think that you

Yes, and it was terrible... at least Rex's attempts to guess what I meant
were reasonably predictable and sensible, as I recall...!-)

> could throw it random garbage and have the compiler some PL/I program out
> of it! :-) That was surely an attempt at artificial intelligence! :-) :-)

An attempt to give AI a bad name (not that it needed that...:-).

> > Fortran was better for some of our work (vectorializing & parallelizing
> > some core parts of the computation [...]
>
> Those vectorizing compilers were surprisingly good, indeed.

As opposed to the attempts to automatize parallelism, which never
worked out just right in my experience (time frame: late '80s, on
IBM machines -- multi-CPU 3090's chock full of VFs -- but at the
time I heard similar user experiences from competitors' customers).

The 'automatic' parallelizers needed so much hand-holding and
source tweaking to work halfway-right that it was much less work
to structure the parallel-computation aspects explicitly (well, on
a FEW big CPU's, at least; I had no real experience with arrays of a
LOT of middling CPU's).


> P.S. - The best approach to AI programming, in my opinion, is to never
loose
> ground.  Some people, when confronted to fuzzy logic, inference engines,
> expert systems, continuations, provers, etc., become so excited that they
> merely give up on their natural intelligence.  This does not yield AI.

I'm not sure what continuations (such sweet little things they are!-) are
doing on this list, actually:-).


Alex





From shalehperry at home.com  Sat Aug 25 14:48:44 2001
From: shalehperry at home.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:48:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
In-Reply-To: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010825114844.shalehperry@home.com>

>>> lst = [[1,2], [2,3]]
>>> lst
[[1, 2], [2, 3]]
>>> sub = [1,2]
>>> sub in lst
1

sub is a list itself.  So you asked if lst contains the list sub, which it does
not.



From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 24 23:17:00 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
In-Reply-To: <3B870B36.4071C1CC@psychosis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242315560.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Dave Cinege wrote:

> keywords: modify argv change process listing argv[0] ps output
>
> This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
> As you might have guessed this allows one to change to absolute
> argv values of the python process itself. (It is of great wonder
> to me why this functionality is not already available...)

Instead of making a whole new function for this, why not add write capability
to sys.argv?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 12:30:36 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
In-Reply-To: <slrn9ov43m.ook.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311228560.4373-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <auLj7.10$j9.166 at castor.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:
>
> >> What widget set do you prefer?
>
> > just a gui for windows...
>
> [BTW, top-quoting isn't really considered kosher on Usenet.]
>
> If by "windows" you mean Microsoft Windows, then your choices are
>
>  Tkinter
>  wxWindows
>  MFC
>
> Follow the links in my previous posting.

You forgot GTK+, and IIRC Qt as well. Their interface modules (or at least
PyGTK for certain) have been ported to the Win32 environment.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 26 01:40:01 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 05:40:01 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com> <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet> <mailman.998777619.14219.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8881df.477281404@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:12:36 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>You're talking about two different things.  The standard indentation is four
>spaces, but if you treat a TAB character as eight spaces you'll be okay
>(though with "python -t" you might get some indentation warnings).  It's
>when you treat a TAB character as something other than 8 spaces that mixing
>spaces and TABs becomes a problem.
>
You don't literally mean that '\t' becomes ' '*8 ??

I would hope that indent position is calculated using
what the screen display normally uses, ie., if columns
are 0-79, a tab from column c goes to (c&~7)+8, so, e.g.,
four spaces plus a tab at the beginning of a line should
be equivalent to 8 spaces of indent, not 12.

Ugh, I just tried this with python in an interactive NT
console window (which tabs 8):
(I've put in spaces to preserve the way it looked)
 >>> def z():
 ...     print 'tabbed indent'
 ...         print '8-space indent'
 ...
 >>> z()
 tabbed indent
 8-space indent
 >>>
 ^--(col 0)

That's ugly. IMHO indentation that looks aligned ought to act aligned,
irrespective of tab/space mix. For interactive mode, couldn't you
just read the indentation mixed white space characters, prefix 4 space
characters, process tabs like the console, and then subtract 4 from
the resulting final indent column?




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 16:13:41 2001
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:13:41 +0100
Subject: LSP and constructors with first-class classes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108261838480.10385-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108261838480.10385-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108311845160.21133-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, John J. Lee wrote:
> would be satisfied.  In Python, however, someone (the future me, for
> example) might reasonably expect this to work:
>
> class TheirFitUser(Fit):
>     def foo(self, fit_class):
>         fit = fit_class(data)
>         [...]
>
> This will break on MyFit, of course.
>
> So, is this unavoidable, or have I arguably made a mistake in subclassing
> from Fit in this case?  In which case, how should I have organised
> things...?
[...]

Well, I guess it is pretty obvious, re-reading this.  __init__ shouldn't
(in fact, wasn't in the first place, really) be part of the interface to
the base class.  I guess I had some kind of blind spot for the particular
case of __init__, for some reason.

My ability to be stupid like this with my own design / code is a good
argument for PEP 245, I think...


John



From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Aug  3 20:12:34 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 00:12:34 GMT
Subject: Is this the *right* way of exception handling?
References: <9kdr21$rao$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <slrn9mmffh.7h4.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:21:59 +0200, Piotr Legiecki
<piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl> wrote:
>Hi
>
>I wonder if the way I use exceptions is the right way or very problematic
>one (anyway it works of course).
>
>I have one class and fill it with a data. If data are wrong i raise my
>exception:
>
>class A:
>  my_exception='my_exception'

The usual style is to make your exception a class inheriting from Exception,
and to put it at the top level (not nested in a class defn).  Then you have
access to all the usual class stuff like methods and instance variables.

Another possibility is to use python's ValueError, which is the standard thing
to raise if you get an argument with a bad value.

Or you could write

assert a == 0, 'a must be 0'

which has the added benefit that when your program is debugged you can run it
with -O and omit all those now redundant checks.  Unfortunately, python's
assertion mechanism is not well integrated with the exception mechanism, so
assertions that should really raise a ValueError will always raise an
AssertionError.  A possible third argument to 'assert'?

>.......
>  def f(self,a):
>     if a !=0
>	raise my_exception, 'a must be 0'

You probably meant 'self.my_exception' or 'A.my_exception' here.

>def f1()
>...
>  try:
>    x=A()
>     x.f(1)
>  except A.my_exception, val:
>    print 'wow, eror', val
>    #!!now, what to do here, i want to stop my program, but should clean
>     something (close files etc) before, so sys.exit() is not a good idea
>     another raise?
>
>def main():
>...
>  use some resources, open files etc
>
>  f1()
>
>  close resources, files etc

Files and other resources should generally be freed at the same level they
were allocated.  So if you opened the files in main(), you should put your try
except around f1() and close them there.  You could also use destructors
(__del__) to automatically free resources, but it's risky for anything that
has to be done in a certain order.

If your exception handler doesn't resolve the error by some other means, it
should reraise the exception (after freeing resources) to let the caller know
the error condition still holds.  You can do that with a plain 'raise'
statement with no args.  Printing an error message and quitting is a form of
resolving the error, but you should generally only do that at the top level
(in fact, python will automatically print an error message and exit if it
reaches there, but it may not be the msg you want).


From DavidLnonospamm at raqia.com  Fri Aug  3 09:54:33 2001
From: DavidLnonospamm at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:54:33 -0400
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
Message-ID: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com>

My Norton Antivirus 2001 with current signatures just reported an
infection of the 'swig.bat' file on the zipped source files from
ActiveState Build 210.  The name of the worm(?) is BAT.Silly.B.gen.  Has
anyone else seen this and does anyone know if it is a valid result from
Norton?

david lees


From phawkins at connact.com  Wed Aug  1 00:32:49 2001
From: phawkins at connact.com (phawkins at connact.com)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 00:32:49 -0400
Subject: Sorting Lists
References: <lSh77.64029$2V.13507417@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <0bj77.544176$eK2.114166570@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <9jm8re$a1c$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <wk7kwxvth7.fsf@mail.connact.com> <9jt3l9$bo2$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <wk8zh4l7ri.fsf@mail.connact.com>

>>>>> "TB" == Tom Bryan <tbryan at python.net> writes:

TB> phawkins at connact.com wrote:

TB> Of course, I never claimed that it was faster.  One simply avoids 
TB> copying the list and sorts in place rather than returning a sorted 
TB> copy of the list. :-)

TB> By the way, would you care to post the results of your performances 
TB> tests.  Is it faster for lists of all sizes?  How does the speed difference 
TB> change as the size of the list changs?  

Looks pretty stable for the sizes of lists that I tested -- running it
several different times for all sizes of lists, it looks as if speed
differences are based on random data differences -- but I haven't yet
seen what it does when it thrashes.  I'll come back and post when I have.

TB> you-can't-get-away-that-easily-ly yours
TB> ---Tom

Well, I would have, but I'd done it in IDLE some time ago when I first
saw discussion of decorate-sort-undecorate.  But, in the interests of
truth and justice, here's a new version.

I designed my random-data-generator so as to create data fairly
similar to the original example in this thread, with the result that
the get-sick&tired-waiting-for-it limiting factor is the data
generation.  So if you want to play around with it, so as to see what
happens when the system starts thrashing, you might want to simplify
the data generation.

This is Windows 98, PII 450, 256 meg ram (and with several other programs
running). 

------test_decorate.py-----------
from whrandom import randint
from string import letters
from time import clock

def make_data(length):
    return [[make_name(), make_name(), randint(0, 100)] for i in xrange(length)]

def make_name():
    word = ""
    length = randint(3,10)
    while len(word) < length:
        word = word + letters[randint(0,25)]
    return word.capitalize()

def dec_sort_by_field(seq,index):
     tmp = [ (item[index],item) for item in seq ]
     tmp.sort()
     return [ item for (_,item) in tmp ]

def cmp_sort_by_field( index ):
    def cmpfunc( x, y, i=index ):
        return cmp( x[i], y[i] )
    return cmpfunc

def time_cmp(data):
    start = clock()
    data.sort(cmp_sort_by_field(1))
    end = clock()
    return end - start  

def time_dec(data):
    start = clock()
    dec_sort_by_field(data, 1)
    end = clock()
    return end - start
    
for i in [10,100,200,300,400,500,1000,5000,10000,50000,75000,100000,150000,\
          200000, 250000, 300000]:
    data = make_data(i)
    dec = time_dec(data)
    cp = time_cmp(data)
    print "data length: %d" % i
    print "decorate: %f" % dec
    print "cmp:      %f" % cp
    if dec:
        print "cmp/dec:  %f\n" % (cp/dec)
-------------------end------------------

ran it a few times in emacs.... never did max memory.


Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> ## working on region in file c:/WINDOWS/TEMP/python--722007F4D...
data length: 10
decorate: 0.000138
cmp:      0.000373
cmp/dec:  2.696970

data length: 100
decorate: 0.001664
cmp:      0.004707
cmp/dec:  2.829219

data length: 200
decorate: 0.002791
cmp:      0.062291
cmp/dec:  22.319520

data length: 300
decorate: 0.004592
cmp:      0.019297
cmp/dec:  4.202409

data length: 400
decorate: 0.006918
cmp:      0.028260
cmp/dec:  4.084676

data length: 500
decorate: 0.007772
cmp:      0.036634
cmp/dec:  4.713793

data length: 1000
decorate: 0.018267
cmp:      0.083722
cmp/dec:  4.583226

data length: 5000
decorate: 0.132274
cmp:      0.539986
cmp/dec:  4.082318

data length: 10000
decorate: 0.350746
cmp:      1.232022
cmp/dec:  3.512577

data length: 50000
decorate: 1.971823
cmp:      7.555448
cmp/dec:  3.831707

data length: 75000
decorate: 3.181551
cmp:      11.692751
cmp/dec:  3.675173

data length: 100000
decorate: 4.401343
cmp:      16.481489
cmp/dec:  3.744650

data length: 150000
decorate: 7.256650
cmp:      25.021690
cmp/dec:  3.448105

>>> ## working on region in file c:/WINDOWS/TEMP/python--722007SCK...
data length: 10
decorate: 0.000184
cmp:      0.000225
cmp/dec:  1.218182

data length: 100
decorate: 0.001300
cmp:      0.005864
cmp/dec:  4.511283

data length: 200
decorate: 0.002601
cmp:      0.011922
cmp/dec:  4.584273

data length: 300
decorate: 0.004932
cmp:      0.019423
cmp/dec:  3.937978

data length: 400
decorate: 0.008885
cmp:      0.027430
cmp/dec:  3.087059

data length: 500
decorate: 0.008477
cmp:      0.036760
cmp/dec:  4.336662

data length: 1000
decorate: 0.020899
cmp:      0.082618
cmp/dec:  3.953240

data length: 5000
decorate: 0.151913
cmp:      0.563729
cmp/dec:  3.710857

data length: 10000
decorate: 0.304589
cmp:      1.485802
cmp/dec:  4.878048

data length: 50000
decorate: 1.758838
cmp:      7.936150
cmp/dec:  4.512156

data length: 75000
decorate: 3.160845
cmp:      12.241860
cmp/dec:  3.872971

data length: 100000
decorate: 4.147288
cmp:      15.488422
cmp/dec:  3.734590

data length: 150000
decorate: 6.621114
cmp:      24.302384
cmp/dec:  3.670437

>>> ## working on region in file c:/WINDOWS/TEMP/python--722007fMQ...
data length: 10
decorate: 0.000186
cmp:      0.000357
cmp/dec:  1.918919

data length: 100
decorate: 0.001405
cmp:      0.004687
cmp/dec:  3.337112

data length: 200
decorate: 0.002718
cmp:      0.011958
cmp/dec:  4.399630

data length: 300
decorate: 0.005749
cmp:      0.019170
cmp/dec:  3.334743

data length: 400
decorate: 0.007392
cmp:      0.028275
cmp/dec:  3.825057

data length: 500
decorate: 0.008398
cmp:      0.038744
cmp/dec:  4.613573

data length: 1000
decorate: 0.020952
cmp:      0.083020
cmp/dec:  3.962478

data length: 5000
decorate: 0.152054
cmp:      0.588490
cmp/dec:  3.870263

data length: 10000
decorate: 0.559918
cmp:      1.350087
cmp/dec:  2.411223

data length: 50000
decorate: 2.027378
cmp:      7.347429
cmp/dec:  3.624104

data length: 75000
decorate: 3.062071
cmp:      11.395732
cmp/dec:  3.721576

data length: 100000
decorate: 4.131656
cmp:      15.764242
cmp/dec:  3.815478

data length: 150000
decorate: 7.114213
cmp:      24.034858
cmp/dec:  3.378428

data length: 200000
decorate: 9.644709
cmp:      33.191710
cmp/dec:  3.441442

data length: 250000
decorate: 17.852266
cmp:      50.232261
cmp/dec:  2.813775

data length: 300000
decorate: 20.336841
cmp:      75.334111
cmp/dec:  3.704317

>>> 

-- 
Patricia J. Hawkins
Hawkins Internet Applications, LLC




From nrrd at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 12 15:21:00 2001
From: nrrd at earthlink.net (jeff)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:21:00 GMT
Subject: PDFLib with Python 2.1
Message-ID: <wGAd7.59567$A47.27993130@news1.rsm1.occa.home.com>

Does anyone have a version of PDFLib (http://www.pdflib.org/) that's been
compiled to work with
Python 2.1 that they would be willing to post (or email to
nrrd at earthlink.net).

I'd compile it myself, but I don't have MS Visual C++ available right now,
and the make files are all Visual C++-centric. Does any one know if there is
there a make file converter to a free compiler?

When I try to run the pre-compiled version of PDFLib it compains that it
can't find python20.dll in the search path.

--


Jeff Polaski
nrrd at earthlink.net




From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Wed Aug  8 12:41:25 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 16:41:25 GMT
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg> <mailman.997030029.10686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9krq3l$u6c$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>

According to Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca>:
> About `cfengine', I tried it very seriously and for a long while, and
> despite seduced by the idea, came to regret having used this package, for
> its lack of maintainability.  But as I became much dependent on
> `cfengine', it was just not possible for me to dismiss it.  So, after
> having sufferred enough, I bit the bullet, and rewrote those parts I
> needed in Python.  What a relief!  That was much, much more maintainable.

Cool! If your enhancements are redistributable, it's a good idea to 
send them to the developer of cfengine for inclusion in future versions.

I once considered cfengine, too. In the end, I settled for TSTTCPW: using
ssh/scp to push files around and remote control the machines.



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 10:45:56 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:45:56 +0100 
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BF56@intrepid>

> From:	Christopher Barber [SMTP:cbarber at curl.com]
> BTW, is there a code coverage measurement tool for Python yet?
 
Skip Montanaro's is here -
<http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/trace.py>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From gender\ at ouwww.ou.edu  Sat Aug 11 14:47:42 2001
From: gender\ at ouwww.ou.edu (gender\ at ouwww.ou.edu)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:47:42 GMT
Subject: Gender and the Internet
Message-ID: <i5fd7.3772$o4.2229@news.ou.edu>

I am a researcher at the University of Oklahoma, USA,
conducting a study about gender and the Internet.
The study consists of an online survey.  To learn
more about the study, go to the research project
web site:

http://infoserv.ou.edu/gender

Cheers!
-Elaine Wittenberg
gender at ouwww.ou.edu


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 19:10:12 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:10:12 -0400
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Venkat" <avenkat at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85 at posting.google.com...
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:<7xd75ovsbk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> > avenkat at myrealbox.com (Venkat) writes:
> > > > Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA.
You just
> > > > have to provide them with some personal information. If you're
dedicated,
> > > >  you  can also get in on their web of trust. That allows you to have
more
> > > > personal information present in the cert (like your real name).
> > >
> > > Why the hell I need personal cert issued by Thwate/Verisign?
> >
> > So when you send someone signed email, their mail client checks the
> > cert and believes it, rather than throwing a dialog saying it has gotten
> > an untrusted certificate.  Note that those free certs only validate your
> > email address (which of course is enough in many situations) and are
> > only good for a few months.
>
> Use, self-signed certs with life time > 1M years:-)
> Why should we pay money to thse fucken commercial CAs.
>
Well, mostly so that people will trust your certificates. If you signed your
own certificate I would have no more reason to trust it than if you didn't
have a certificate at all.

> >
> > > I can say, all these certs(I call junkies) issued by these CAs are
> > > meta-certs.
>
> well, you contacted some commercial CA for cert. That Commercial CA
> has to do some security checks on the credentials you provided. SO,
> Commercial CA will assign this task to some agencies.
>
> You will get the cert, once that agency provides the positive info abt
> the credentials you submmitted...
>
> Here, the commercial CA is trusting the trust of the agency..
> Hence, Meta Trust:-)
>
Although it has been shown that the commercial agencies can be subverted
(most recently in the Microsoft case that you talk about), in return for the
payment many of them will actually indemnify you against losses you incur.
The larger the payment the greater the indemnity. Of course, none of them
indemnify their free certificates, which seems reasonable.

Utlimately you have to trust *someone*. PGP's ideas in a distributed web of
trust were interesting, but unfortunately there weren't enough PGP users for
indivduals unknown to each other to be able to acquire mutual trust, so the
scheme has pretty much foundered. It would be nice if someone would start a
free "open CA", but sadly there is real work involved in verifying
identities.

Of more concern, of course, is that by default the common browsers don't
check the CA's revocation list to ensure that an apparently valid
certificate hasn't been revoked due to some kind of problem (fraudulently
obtained or issued to wrong party would be the two most common cases). If
there really were a public key infrastructure this would be practical, and
Microsoft wouldn't have had to patch their products to avoid them accepting
the bogus certificates.

you've-got-to-trust-someone-and-i'd rather-trust-verisign-than-you-ly
'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Fri Aug 17 03:05:44 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 00:05:44 -0700
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
Message-ID: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

Hi all,

during the development of a Web site that serves compressed XML data,
I found that the zlib module did not allow thread swapping during long
compresses:  that is, while Python was compressing a large string, all
other Python execution would halt (within PyWX, a threaded embedding of
Python). Upon further investigation, I discovered that:

* the zlib itself (not the Python interface) IS threadsafe;

* the zlibmodule (the Python interface) is NOT threadsafe for two reasons:

	1) there's no lock to prevent one thread from modifying the
	   internals of de/compression objects while another thread is
	   working on it;

	2) the input strings to the de/compress functions can be modified
	   outside of the zlibmodule while the zlibmodule functions are
	   working on them.

I gamely went ahead and I have some fixes for these problems.  However,
there are some tough choices to be made (hence this request for comments ;).

First off, my fix for the second problem involves making an internal copy of
all input strings before allowing thread swapping to occur.  Is this likely
to cause unacceptable memory usage?  If so, should I add a fair bit more
complexity to the code by putting in #ifdefs to handle both threaded cases
(sequestering of input) and unthreaded installs (no sequestering of input)?

Second of all, my fix to the first problem involves a *global* zlib lock.
Now, if I put a lock in de/compression objects themselves, then
on a multiprocessor machine, multiple de/compression objects could run
on multiple processors.  However, this adds some thorny (to me) issues
of different objects size on threaded installs and unthreaded installs --
I'm not clear how bad this is ;) -- as well as the evil bugaboo of code
complexity.

I would appreciate comments on these tradeoffs.  You can see a working
but untested thread-safe thread-swapping zlibmodule.c at

	http://chabry.caltech.edu/~t/transfer/zlibmodule.c

It is based off the current CVS tree, but the zlibmodule does not appear to
have changed at all within the last several releases, so it should work
just fine with e.g. a 2.1 distribution.

--titus

P.S. Thanks to Martin Loewis for taking a look at my first patch and pointing
out that zlib itself might not be threadsafe! ;).


From coy.krill at verizon.net  Wed Aug  8 18:48:39 2001
From: coy.krill at verizon.net (Coy Krill)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:48:39 -0700
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>
Message-ID: <9ksfl1$6dvvk$1@ID-59852.news.dfncis.de>

Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:

> How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
> I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
> examples
> 


They have an invoice demo on their web site but it doesn't seem to be 
working at the moment.  You might email them and ask if you can have the 
CGI script that runs it and take a look at that.

Coy


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug  6 16:22:22 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:22:22 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <cppua93pog.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu (Dylan Thurston) writes:

> The 'list' class/type has a method '__getslice__' (etc.), which uses
> the old and very broken interface.  I want to define a subclass for
> which this interface is insufficient.  If I want the new interface, I
> have to figure out how to hide that method.  [Does anyone know how to
> do this?]
> 
> Let me complain a little about the slicing interface while I'm at it.
> I don't understand why missing endpoints are turned into 0/maxint
> (rather than, say, 'None') before calling __getitem__; it removes a
> lot of flexibility.  Also, why are the slices restricted to being
> integers?  I can imagine, say, slicing a 2-dimensional array based on
> the endpoints (like 'delete-rectangle', etc. in Emacs).

Good point.  __getslice__ is ancient and should be banned.
Unfortunately, this is hard without breaking old code.  The best thing
to do might actually to simply not support __getslice__ etc. at all
for built-in types and subtypes thereof.  I'll have to think about
this more!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From jafo-nclug at tummy.com  Wed Aug 15 19:03:44 2001
From: jafo-nclug at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:03:44 -0600
Subject: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108150952470.6172-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>; from rnd@onego.ru on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:54:54AM +0400
References: <3B79FC10.94AD2E33@student.gu.edu.au> <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108150952470.6172-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20010815170344.D17672@tummy.com>

On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:54:54AM +0400, Roman Suzi wrote:
>Mailman should block any mail without mentioning Python, Guido
>or code without single line of Python code ;-) 
>(I am not sure about usenet group though...)

Alternately, we should move to mailing list to a server in Colorado, USA,
where they have passed leglislation giving both the "email service
provider" and the recipient of the e-mail the opportunity to collect $10
*PER VIOLATION* for UCE sent that doesn't include "ADV:" in the subject.

We're trying this out thorugh some of the mailing lists I host.  No luck so
far, but I haven't pushed it very hard.

Sean
-- 
 Follow your dreams.  Unless it's the one where you're at work in your
 underwear during a fire drill.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From greg.ball at earthling.net  Wed Aug 15 12:16:49 2001
From: greg.ball at earthling.net (Greg Ball)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:16:49 -0700
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org> <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com> <9ldakm01ioq@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <c0297a2f.0108150816.1524b210@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9ldakm01ioq at enews3.newsguy.com>...
> So, if Python's dynamic semantics are to stay untouched, any
> caching or hoisting of method resolution MUST track potential
> modifications.  Of course, the antecedent of this hypothetical
> sentence is pretty iffy -- but, one COULD construct a case.


Speaking of caching of method resolution... 

I've been thinking about the discussion of how valuable assignment to
__class__ is.  I've thought about several examples presented and I
agree that it is a concise and elegant way to solve the problem of
object state.

However, I have realised that there is a fly in the ointment.
Namely, bound methods.  An object choosing to change its class means
that it wishes to change its behaviour.  However, if somewhere a
client has already obtained a bound method (which is after all, a
first class object, so the client can hardly be upbraided for this?)
then the old behaviour is hiding in that one method, ready to create
some potentially interesting effects...

As an example I'll take the unique case in current python where a
built in object changes it's type.

Here's the way it's supposed to work:

Python 2.2a1 (#16, Aug  4 2001, 12:44:54) 
[GCC 2.95.3 19991030 (prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class C:
...     def __cmp__(self,other):
...             gl.pop()
...             return 0
... 
>>> gl = [C() for i in range(20)]
>>> gl.sort()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __cmp__
AttributeError: 'list (immutable, during sort)' object has no
attribute 'pop'
>>>


But it can also work like this:

>>> class C:
...     def __cmp__(self,other):
...             pop()
...             return 0
... 
>>> gl = [C() for i in range(20)]
>>> pop=gl.pop
>>> gl.sort()
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

By binding a method from <type 'list'> and holding onto it, I get
around the fact that the object wanted to change it's behaviour.  Now
I admit that this particular case is deliberate mischief making. 
However, I think you would agree that *if* a given objects __class__
is subject to change, I would be well advised not to hold onto any
bound methods of that object.  More, if I am to be conservative, I
need to assume that this might happen to *any* object of a class the
implementation of which I have not studied - which applies to almost
any object at all, if I write my code with pure signature-based
polymorphism.  Therefore, caching bound methods must be considered
risky, if class changing behaviour is considered acceptable.

To avoid this problem while allowing class reassignment, my guess is
that a bound method object would need to store not only the underlying
function and the relevant instance, but also the type of the instance
at the time of binding.  It could then do a last minute type check at
the time that the method is called.
In other words, the solution is to add another runtime type check, or
to summarise the summary, current python is *not* sufficiently
dynamic!

This suggestion is pretty impractical however since it adds a space
and time overhead to every bound method call, and I know these calls
are very, very common (including almost** every arithmetic operation
as well as explicit method calls).  Of course the typical

instance.method(arg)

pattern on a class instance has a pretty high overhead right now,
especially if the method is found deep down the class heirarchy, but
that is one of the chief targets for improved performance in the new
scheme of things I imagine, so there will be reluctance to add a new
burden to the operation.

On the other hand Tim Peters *does* seem to be enamoured with the
immutable list trick, so maybe he will be tempted to make it more
bulletproof.

** almost, meaning except for integer operations handcoded in the
eval_code2
loop, as far as I know.

--
Greg


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 14:49:16 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:49:16 -0700
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
References: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3B86A1AC.F2D7AE2E@ccvcorp.com>

"Maan M. Hamze" wrote:

> Is it possible to link Dictionary values of each key into a text file?  So
> the value of a key is a text file somewhere on the PC.  And if so, how do I
> instruct Python to open the text file and print into screen when the key of
> the text file is used?
> Also, is it possible to link a value of a Dictionary key into a Python
> function/procedure?  So, if the key is encountered, a way for the
> functionprocedure to be run.
> Maan

First case:

class FileDict:
    def __init__(self):
        self.files = {}
    def AddFile(self, key, filename)
        self.files[key] = filename
    def GetFile(self, key):
        try:
            fp = open(self.files[key], 'r')
        except KeyError:
            print "Error!  No such file registered!"
            return None
        text = fp.read()
        fp.close()
        return text

Of course, you might want to add some code to verify that the filename you're
being fed exists, is a valid (fully qualified) path, etc, etc...

Second case:

def test1():
    print "Testing!"
def test2():
    print "But I don't like spam!"

FuncDict = { "first" : test1, "second" : test2 }

>>> FuncDict['first']()
Testing!
>>> FuncDict['second']()
But I don't like spam!





From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug 18 12:26:56 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:26:56 GMT
Subject: typechecking etc??
References: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com> <3b7e8d15$0$222@proctor>
Message-ID: <fa5tnto3s0atafevrrheo082lcvopgqsng@4ax.com>

>Talking about compiler efficiency, is there any way to write an extension
>that would allow python to be optionally strongly typed?

Python already _is_ strongly typed. What you mean is optional _static_ typing.

It wouldn't be too hard to alter the python parser to accept static type information
and to allow for declarations, but this is only a small part of getting a compiler
to compile efficiently for a dynamic language. I think the folks who keep on asking
for this are quite myopic about it. For performance, it's not nearly as important as
you think.

The main argument in favor of static typing is that static typing reveals coding
errors up front. This argument, however, has no real place in Python, which is
a _dynamic_ language designed for programmers who _like_ dynamic
languages. In other words, you're barking up the wrong language tree (IMO).

Lisp has had optional _static_ declarations for years; they tend not to be used,
as most Lisp programmers don't even think that way, would rather not think that
way, find it too limiting.

C//



From JamesL at Lugoj.Com  Sun Aug  5 19:08:01 2001
From: JamesL at Lugoj.Com (James Logajan)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 16:08:01 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997048811.22969.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6DD1D0.C044E320@Lugoj.Com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> The meaning of division a program needs depends entirely on context.  Any
> meaning is "wrong" in some programming contexts.

Oops. Talk about scorched earth arguments. Given that, I think you've just
made it an issue decided by a preponderance of opinion (i.e. a vote). Unless
you and/or Guido admit to knowledge of all possible programming contexts?

(What harm do you believe befalls Python if nothing is done?)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 05:20:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:20:59 +0200
Subject: getting rid of data movement instructions
References: <mailman.998259150.17466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lqkp8019r@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998259150.17466.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> This reminds me of the definition of a supercomputer commonly heard in the
> 80s:  a supercomputer is a box that turns your CPU-bound problem into an
> I/O-bound problem.  IOW-- and take this to heart! --no matter what you
> optimize, if you do a good job, one consequence is that "the bottleneck"
> moves to something you weren't even thinking about.  Or, as Gordon Bell's
> First Law of supercomputer design put it, Everything Counts.

Hmmm, isn't the numeric expression of this called Amdahl's Law?


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug  7 14:41:12 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:41:12 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071422040.8812-100000@fleet1>
Message-ID: <038801c11f70$896ffaa0$0300000a@holdenweb.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <fleet at teachout.org>
To: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
Cc: <python-list at cwi.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie Question!


> On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>
> > > [/home/dev/cbamc]$ python cgiserver.py
> > > localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] code 403, message
> > Directory listing not
> > > supported
> > > localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] "GET / HTTP/1.0"
> > 403 -
> > > Traceback (innermost last):
> > >   File "cgiserver.py", line 5, in ?
> > >     httpd.serve_forever()
> > >   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 195, in
> > serve_forever
> > >     self.handle_request()
> > >   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 210, in
> > handle_request
> > >     request, client_address = self.get_request()
> > >   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 223, in
get_request
> > >     return self.socket.accept()
> > > KeyboardInterrupt <---- me getting out
> > >
> > > The directory contains only 'index.html' (rather lengthy) and
> > 'cgiserver.py.'
> > >
> >
> > Seems like it might be a versioning problem, if indeed there really
is
> > anything wrong at all. From the traceback, it looks like your server
was
> > sitting there waiting to accept a request. I'm guessing you didn't
use
> > the right URL in your browser! In which case see below for the right
> > one...
>
> What I see in the browser when I go to :8000 is:
>
> Error response Error code 403.
> Message: Directory listing not supported.
> Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will
not help.
>
> > It works fine for me under Python 2.0 on Windows 98, for example:
>
> I'm using RH 7.0 (forgot to mention that).
>
> > it's rather a long time since I used it. If you don't like putting a
> > port number in your URLs, just change "8000" to "80" in the server
code.
>
> Changing to port 80, I get a "Test Page" that says Apache is installed
> correctly and (as administrator) I may now add content to this page.
>
The only way you should be getting a 403 is if there is no index.html
page to spew out. It indicates that the server thinks it should show you
a "table of contents", but it isn't able to do so for some reason. If I
delete *my* index.html I actually get a directory listing, so you need
to check your permissions carefully. Either the server can't read the
directory, or it can't read index.html, or both, I'm thinking.

When I suggested you move to port 80, I actualy meant move the server
;-) Since you appear to have an Apache server on port 80 this would not
be a good idea, so I would continue to use port 8000.

It really doesn't look like this is a Python problem. Maybe some other
reader can suggest what might be going wrong?

i'll-have-to-modify-that-web-page-ly y'rs  - steve
-
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 10 16:29:07 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:29:07 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com> <3187511.KiObB369e8@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3b74379c.492155281@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:45:27 +0200, Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> wrote:
[...]
>
>As long as Python doesn't allow self-modyfing code (means a block of 
>code is immutable once compiled), it should be no problem (except 
>implemenation effort) to replace the byte-code compiler with one that 
>provides machine code.
>
>But this isn't the main slowdown - it is the dynamic lookup for every 
>access. But when we change this, we wouldn't have python any more.
>
>>> I think that adding features to allow Python powerful enough to
>>> remove the
>>> need for extensions would be worth a little bit of extra complexity. 
>>> I
>> 
>> I could hardly disagree more deeply, profoundly and totally than in
>> fact
>> I do.  Nothing will remove the need for extensions, although their use
>> may become less frequent.
>
>Fully agree. The only way to get around this is to have _very good_ 
>optimizing compilers, and to include every needed machine-specific 
>detail as a language feature.
>
>In a project at our university (Ulm, Germany), we implement an OS using 
>a java-like language (older researches used an oberon derivate). We 
>included machine level things using a "virtual" class called Magic. 
>This class doesn't physically exist, the compiler directly generates 
>the corresponding machine code. This way, we have direct access to 
>memory (Magic.mem8[]), Intel IO-Space port commands (Magic.Out(), 
>Magic.In) and - for use in the memory management classes - magic.Cast. 
>We even can declare methods that use interrupt stack frame instead of 
>normal one.
>
>But there are still some places where we have to use our nice inline 
>feature - sometimes for speed reasons (Memcopy, TCP-Checksum etc), and 
>the other times because they are very specific and needed only at one 
>place (MMU-Programming, TSC-Register access etc). 
>
>If you don't include assembly into the language, you always will have 
>to use extensions that don't follow the language's rules.
>
True, but maybe there's a useful happy medium for Python?

Even C/C++ requires some assurances about aliasing, etc. in order to
optimize full tilt. I would think there could be similar assurances
given to the Python compiler without crufting up the language.

E.g., what if there were a 'restricted' keyword (or you pick one ;-)
which allowed the compiler to assume that a function's arguments would
always be the same types as in provided default arguments, and that there
would be no global side effects, and global references would be stable
as to type? It would seem you could allocate local working storage on
the stack and avoid reference counting and lookup to a large extent.

Wrapping an expression in restricted(expr) could be a similar indicator
of stable type references. A lot of accesses from compiled code could
then bypass lookup ISTM. Of course global references would still have
to have some checks for robustness, I assume. Also, if things move
during gc, actual (pre-looked-up) global references in code would have to
be updated one way or another (I am guessing without yet having looked at
the relevant code).

An alternative to passing default arguments as data type prototypes
might be passing arguments paired with coercion functions which
could be checked quickly and used depending, e.g., foo(int, i), where
 >>> int
 <built-in function int>

Just some musings...



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 14:12:36 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:12:36 -0700
Subject: Calling C++ from Python
References: <3B7D2A85.A11E46CB@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D5E93.56ABDB84@ccvcorp.com>

Rbtns wrote:

> How would I call a C++ object from Python?
>
> I have a file of something like:
>
> #include <iostream.h>
> int main()
> {
>   cout <<"I need this to work\n";
>   return 0;
> }
>
> and I want to display my C++ program output from within a python
> program. Do I create an object of the C++ program, and therefore would
> it need to be in a class?  How do I do this if I don't want the program
> in a class?  How do I import the C++ file?

If you have an existing program that you wish to start from within a Python
program, there are several options, mostly involving the os module.
os.system('myprog.exe') will start a separate process that runs
myprog.exe.  If you want Python to be able to send input to, and receive
output from, the other program, then you'd want to use os.popen() or one of
its many variants.  (Note that popen() is broken on windows, you'll want to
use the replacement proveded in the win32 extensions.)  Check your library
reference for details.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 08:58:08 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:58:08 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kbip102o37@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    ...
> That makes python's development somewhat less than democratic. We get

TOTALLY un-democratic, I should hope -- if I wanted a horse
designed by a committee, I'd be over in comp.lang.perl, ya'know.


> At some point the DFL will make a decision that's wrong. I suppose the

It's already happened -- "print>>bah,humbug" *IS* part of Python, today.


> herd will have another group hug and accept it.

No way.  I've given "print>>blotch,horror" a try as fair as the fact
that it curls my blood allows, and I still detest it just as much as
when I first saw it.  So what?  I'm not gonna fork Python over this,
obviously -- Python still gives me by far enough value to pay for
the extra dental work needed by all the teeth-gnashing that the
detested "print>>tippedoverchevron" causes me, though I do plan to
send Guido the dentist's bill, obviously.


Alex





From paul at boddie.net  Fri Aug 17 05:30:22 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 02:30:22 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <m4ielqeqlne.fsf@macquarie.com.au> <9ldfjr$6m852@owl.le.ac.uk> <m4iae10rgln.fsf@macquarie.com.au>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108170130.7f28566b@posting.google.com>

Timothy Docker <timd at macquarie.com.au> wrote in message news:<m4iae10rgln.fsf at macquarie.com.au>...
> 
> Although I use suns C++ compiler for local development, I alway use gcc
> for compiling python related stuff. I have a "sandbox" type of
> environment that has all the gnu tools (gnu-make,bash etc) on the path
> in front of the sun equivalents, in order to get stuff building in
> the way the developers would have.

I can recommend this with certain open source projects, and in my
opinion it's rather nice to be able to use bash instead of the
standard Solaris shells as well.

> > Even Python itself doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris using gcc,
> > only using Sun's cc, which is rather a pity.
> 
> Hmmm. It did so perfectly for me, on sol2.7 with gcc2.95.2.

I never had any problems installing Python on Solaris with gcc. Is
this Python 2.1 or 2.2a? If so, then you're doing something I never
got to trying.

> Which gcc version? Which solaris version? What was you problem?

I think the biggest thing to get right in building wxPython is the
combination of compatible packages. wxPython will often require a
particular version of wxGTK, and this may in turn require particular
versions of gtk and glib. On Solaris, there are additional issues
which are conveniently summarised on this Web page I just found:

  http://home.t-online.de/home/hburde/s7-tips.html#wxPython

One of them - the --enable-permissive flag for gcc - is to get around
Sun's "broken" X11 headers, and can be quite a common thing to specify
when building things on Solaris.

Paul


From mats at laplaza.org  Fri Aug 10 09:07:37 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:07:37 GMT
Subject: PySOAP???
Message-ID: <3b73dbde.489022847@news.laplaza.org>

Finally got around to reading Cameron Laird's neat little intro to
PySOAP off O'Reilly's Python DevCenter, and tried to go fetch the
code.  For several days now, there's no response from actzero.com, the
link he's pointing to. A web search has not turned up any other
locations for this code. Anybody have and alternate location (and
what's up with Actzero?)

Mats



From wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu  Wed Aug 15 22:10:57 2001
From: wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu (Wen Jiang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:10:57 -0500
Subject: [Q] Python and math
References: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7B2BB1.9880FF8B@bcm.tmc.edu>

Scipy seems great.

http://www.scipy.org

Wen

Young-Jin Lee wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm wondering if there's a open source python code for solving ODE
> (ordinary differential equations)?
> I want to convert my Java application into Python, but I'm not sure if there
> is a ODE solver written and available in Python.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Young-Jin


From jparlar at home.com  Wed Aug 29 16:20:11 2001
From: jparlar at home.com (Jay Parlar)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:20:11 GMT
Subject: Lists into Strings..?
References: <910D39579tefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>
Message-ID: <1103_999116432@jparlar>

If I understand you correctly, then it's a simple matter of using the 'join()' function, part of the 'string' library.

import string
lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
sNewString = string.join(lExistingList)

Unless I've misunderstood you, that should do it.

> Hiya!
> 
> I am wondering of the best* way to make string equal to an entire list of 
> strings.
> 
> >>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
> >>> sNewString = lExistingList
> 
> just doesn't seem to do it.
> 
> I know that I can write the list out to a file, and then read the whole 
> file in,   but that seems like so much overkill to me.
> 
> Thanks heaps!
> 
> tefol
> 
> *I let you define best anyway you like.  That seems to be the Python way.  
> :-)
> 
> Cha!




From mycerius at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 13:00:40 2001
From: mycerius at yahoo.com (David AraSmith)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mouseover in Tk?
Message-ID: <20010813170040.29559.qmail@web14004.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello, I am new to both Python and Tk and I have been
trying to create a mouseover for a button. The effect
I am trying to get is going from a flat relief to a
raised relief (similair to the ones found in some
programs now). I have tried different approaches but
am not having any luck. Any help would be much
appreicated. Thanks in advance.

dave


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From uberto at usa.net  Wed Aug  1 07:18:50 2001
From: uberto at usa.net (Uberto Barbini)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 04:18:50 -0700
Subject: case sensitivity redux (was Re: Language change and code breaks)
References: <6D8A17398E28D3119F860090274DD7DBF13643@pces.cadlab.it> <mailman.996600481.11881.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c995f567.0108010318.3a6f791f@posting.google.com>

> Also, I think that doing a really good job may be tricky.  Just one
> example:
> 
> class Foo:
>     def foo(s): pass

now you can do
class Foo:
    def Foo(s): pass

so you have just to add an "IF" ... as my old boss liked to say ;)

Anyway I think that the people more interested in case-insensitive
Python are not posting in ng.

Bye 
Uberto Barbini


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Fri Aug 17 06:50:32 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:50:32 +0100
Subject: Pmw ScrolledListBox width
References: <9li3rt$ntm$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8m2f7.1$Mj.2523@typhoon1.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3B7CF6F8.858A1028@westerngeco.com>

I think you could also specify a listbox_width.....


self.box = Pmw.ScrolledListBox(parent,
                 items=('Sydney', 'Melbourne', 'Brisbane'),
                 labelpos='nw',
                 label_text='Cities',
                 listbox_height = 6,
		 listbox_width=80,     # seems to do the trick.....
                 selectioncommand=self.selectionCommand,
                 dblclickcommand=self.defCmd,
         )
# you may also need to allow the listbox to expand
# in the 'x' direction....

self.box.pack(fill='x', expand='yes')

Martin.

David Allen wrote:
> 
> In article <9li3rt$ntm$1 at bob.news.rcn.net>, "Jerry Gitomer"
> <jgitomer at erols.com> wrote:
> 
> > Okay,
> >
> >         I must be overlooking the obvious, but how do I specify the
> > width of the text in a Pmw ScrolledListBox?  I tried reading the docs and
> > then I started experimenting  -- and nothing seems to work.
> >
> >         I used the All.py program in the Pmw/demos directory as a
> > starting point so I have two panes with the left containing the treeList and
> > the right open for my called modules to use.  There must be room to support
> > a width of 90 characters and 30 rows, but all I can get are 7 rows and 20
> > some odd characters of width.
> 
> When you create the ScrolledListBox component, try specifying
> "hull_width" and "hull_height" along with "usehullsize=1".  Example from
> ScrolledListBox.py in the "demo" directory of the Pmw distribution:
> 
>         # Create the ScrolledListBox.
>         self.box = Pmw.ScrolledListBox(parent,
>                 items=('Sydney', 'Melbourne', 'Brisbane'),
>                 labelpos='nw',
>                 label_text='Cities',
>                 listbox_height = 6,
>                 selectioncommand=self.selectionCommand,
>                 dblclickcommand=self.defCmd,
>                 usehullsize = 1,
>                 hull_width = 200,
>                 hull_height = 200,
>         )
> 
> Hope this helps.  I don't know of a way where you can say "make the window
> wide enough to hold 40 characters" - just that you can specify pixel
> widths like this.
> 
> --
> David Allen
> http://opop.nols.com/
> ----------------------------------------
> >This is the `hash' symbol and makes #! at the start of a shell script
> >`hash bang'.
> Yes, and #!/bin/bash is thus pronounced "hash bang slash bin slash
> bash".
>                 -- From comp.lang.lisp


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 10:18:05 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:18:05 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
In-Reply-To: <013901c11da5$09c688e0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051812270.23728-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Ken Seehof wrote:

>This is python, not perl.  Readability therefore has priority over terse
>obfuscation.  I definitely prefer 'yield' over '*'.

P.S.

I just wonder what will become of Python programs after generators will be
in common use (and they will be!). Looking at standard library suggests
that maybe more than half of the modules could benefit after rewriting
them with generators. Generators save memory without too much (if any)
computational overhead and this will not be unnoticed by developers.

It is already hard to reimplement something written in Python in another
language, generators will make it much harder... But who cares? ;-)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 31 06:44:33 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:44:33 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
In-Reply-To: <9mnmlq0296j@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311442470.18028-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > > However, urllib.urlopen() takes forever to return.
> > >
> > >     Is there a way to specify a timeout for this library? I can't find a
> way
> > > in the documentation.
> >
> >    There is no. This is actually TCP/IP problem. There are many solutions:
> > signals (unfortunately, signals are sinchronous in Python),
> multiprocessing
> > (forking or threading), non-blocking sockets (select/poll, asyncore).
>
> Probably the best solution in Python is using
> http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py

   Arguable. Among my robots is one based on the timeoutsocket.py - and it
reports more timeouts then forking robot (both robot uses 15 minutes
timeout). So I prefer fork+timeout.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug  5 18:32:47 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:32:47 -0400
Subject: Installing module: import error "No module named 'new'"
In-Reply-To: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEKNLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Sheila King, on Python 2.0, both Windows and Linux]
> ...
> How should I proceed at this point? Why isn't the "new" module available
> to me???

It's unclear whether you had problems importing "new" on both platforms or
only one.  "new" has long been enabled in the Windows Python distribution,
and became enabled by *default* for other distributions beginning in 1.6.
Whoever built your Linux version may have disabled it.  If you can't import
"new" in Windows Python 2.0, something is seriously wrong.

Here's 2.0.1 Windows Python run with the -v switch:

C:\Python20>python -v
# C:\PYTHON20\lib\site.pyc matches C:\PYTHON20\lib\site.py
import site # precompiled from C:\PYTHON20\lib\site.pyc
# C:\PYTHON20\lib\os.pyc matches C:\PYTHON20\lib\os.py
import os # precompiled from C:\PYTHON20\lib\os.pyc
import nt # builtin
# C:\PYTHON20\lib\ntpath.pyc matches C:\PYTHON20\lib\ntpath.py
import ntpath # precompiled from C:\PYTHON20\lib\ntpath.pyc
# C:\PYTHON20\lib\stat.pyc matches C:\PYTHON20\lib\stat.py
import stat # precompiled from C:\PYTHON20\lib\stat.pyc
# C:\PYTHON20\lib\UserDict.pyc matches C:\PYTHON20\lib\UserDict.py
import UserDict # precompiled from C:\PYTHON20\lib\UserDict.pyc
Python 2.0.1 (#18, Jun 22 2001, 02:26:03) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import new
import new # builtin
>>>

As it says at the end, "new" is a builtin module (just like, e.g., "math"
and "cPickle" in this respect -- there is no separate file enabling it, it's
built in to the interpreter).




From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Wed Aug 22 01:33:11 2001
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:33:11 -0700
Subject: Strange Numeric behavior for failed assignment
Message-ID: <200108220533.WAA00874@mail.arc.nasa.gov>

I noticed the following and was wondering if it makes any sense:

Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219 
(prerelease)] on linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = array((0))
>>> a
0
>>> a[0]=None
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation
>>> a
-1
>>> Numeric.__version__
'17.1.2'


Should a failed assignment set the assigned value to -1?  It seems to 
me that the exception should be enough.




From smaster at linuxbr.com.br  Sat Aug  4 15:09:31 2001
From: smaster at linuxbr.com.br (smaster at linuxbr.com.br)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:09:31
Subject: (Sem assunto)
Message-ID: <99694857201@www6.mailbr.com.br>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010804/11253db3/attachment.ksh>

From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 05:58:26 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 02:58:26 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> writes:
> It's right there in the second paragraph... 
> 
> '''Complex numbers have a real and imaginary part, which are both implemented 
> using double in C. To extract these parts from a complex number z, use z.real 
> and z.imag.'''

Oops, yes, there it is.  Thanks.  It's not in the table of operations
underneath and probably ought to be added.

> 
> > Here's another dumb question, about the for loop: if I want to add
> > up the first 100 numbers in the naive way, am I really supposed to say
> >
> >    sum = 0
> >    for i in range(101) :
> >      sum = sum + i
> >
> > and if I say that, will range(101) really malloc up and populate an
> > array of length 100? 
> 
> You could use xrange, which won't malloc the list.

xrange apparently doesn't malloc the values until they're used, but
they eventually get malloc'd.  I think functional programming has run
slightly amuck here.  What's wanted is something equivalent to

   sum = 0
   i = 1
   while i <= 100 :
      sum = sum + i
      i = i + 1

Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.

Here's another one: the print statement puts a gratuituous space after
each thing you print.  So

   for i in ['a','b','c']:
     print i,

prints "a b c " instead of "abc".


From xavier at perceval.net  Fri Aug  3 06:01:09 2001
From: xavier at perceval.net (Xavier Defrang)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:01:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: struct.unpack null-terminated string
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108031154100.12854-100000@elara.perceval.be>

Hello,

How do I unpack a null-terminated string with the struct module?  I
couldn't find it in the lib reference... maybe do i have to upgrade my
glasses?

Thanks in advance,

Xavier Defrang
Perceval R&D Team
xavier at perceval.net

-------------------------------------------------
 Perceval Technologies SA/NV  Tel: +32-2-6409194
 Rue Tenbosch, 9              Fax: +32-2-6403154
 B-1000 Brussels         http://www.perceval.net
 BELGIUM                       info at perceval.net
-------------------------------------------------




From markus at schabi.de  Mon Aug 27 10:47:51 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:47:51 GMT
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <5285736.frOyU7HbjW@lunix.schabi.de> <9md10h01g1e@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <r4ti7.111293$B37.2438740@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> schrub:

>> This lets me to the following conclusions:
>> - Your Machine speed seems to be in the 500Mhz Athlon class :-)
> 
> Peculiar indeed -- it's a 300MHz Pentium-2 running NT4 (lots
> of RAM though, and a very good overall implementation -- it's
> a HP Kayak box).

An additional point may be that your Python may have be compiled with 
better optimizations.

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to 
do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein
}


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Mon Aug  6 10:15:54 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:15:54 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com> <mailman.996787686.29273.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F554E3E4346michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <3b6ea347.838398@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:18:56 +0000 (UTC), Michael Abbott
<michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote:

>Michael Ackerman <ack at nethere.com> wrote in 
>news:mailman.996787686.29273.python-list at python.org:
>
>> 
>> 
>> "David C. Ullrich" wrote:
>> 
>>> Exactly what definition of
>>> "complex number" do you have in mind here?
>>> The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of real numbers".)
>> 
>> If you define the complex numbers C as pairs of reals, you have given at
>> most its structure of real vector space. Then you must define
>> multiplication and prove that what you have is actually a ring. But if
>> you define C as the quotient ring R[X]/(X^2+1), then you needn't do
>> anything more. This definition is often used, e.g. in MacLane &
>> Birhkoff's "Algebra", the most categorically oriented basic algebra
>> text.  
>> 
>> -- Michael Ackerman
>
>
>Actually, this is kinda amusing: I thought I'd try writing a Complex class 
>using the representation above (ie, the value of a complex number is a 
>polynomial, and equality is modulo X^2+1); in this case the only real 
>complexity (sic) is implementing equality and division by quotienting by 
>X^2+1 -- but then I realised that I might as well quotient my 
>representation by X^2+1 throughout.
>    Then, surprise, surprise, it turns out that we recover the standard 
>(real,imaginary) presentation of reals.  Of course this isn't all that 
>surprising, given that X is there precisely to represent the root of 
>X^2+1=0.

No, it's not even one teensy bit surprising to me, sorry. I was
actually going to point out that this is what would probably happen at
one point, decided there wasn't much point to going on about it.

Why "probably": Of course it's impossible to use the mathematical
R[X]/(X^2+1) literally; the elements are equivalence classes of
polynomials, in particular a complex number is an infinite set
of polynomials, and hence would take too much storage space.

That's one version of "implement as R[X}/(X^2+1)", anyway. That's
so obviously impossible that what one does instead is say that a
complex is a polynomial, except that operations and equality
are all just "mod X^2 + 1", as you say. But now we have all these
different polynomials that all represent a given complex number;
if we're talking about internal representations it's hard to
see why we don't just choose the simplest one to use as a
representative, if we can decide what the simplest one is.
Here there _is_ a natural choice of one polynomial to use
from each equivalence class, but if you use that one your
complex numbers have become precisely pairs of reals.

(Hence the "probably": A person _could_ use a representation
as above without choosing special representatives from each
equivalence class... hard to see why one would. And then
when one compares two complexes for equality one is going
to be calculating real and imag with each comparison 
enyway... similarly for division.)

You've discovered that those two definitions are equivalent.


David C. Ullrich


From dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk  Sun Aug  5 20:30:00 2001
From: dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk (Dirksen Lau)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:30:00 +0800
Subject: Followup of the compatibility issue of smtplib
Message-ID: <002701c11e0e$ed641860$1e9b849e@iceman>

Hi,

As Steve suggested, I run my script in debug mode, but don't find anything
unusual(the mail still doesn't get to the destination). I attach the dubug
log below, and please point out the trouble spot:

connect: ('smtp.polyu.edu.hk', 25)
reply: '220 hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP service (Netscape Messaging Server
4.15 Pa
tch 2 (built May 30 2000))\015\012'
reply: retcode (220); Msg: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP service (Netscape
Messaging
 Server 4.15 Patch 2 (built May 30 2000))
connect: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP service (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15
Patch
 2 (built May 30 2000))
send: 'ehlo iceman\015\012'
reply: '250-hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk\015\012'
reply: '250-PIPELINING\015\012'
reply: '250-HELP\015\012'
reply: '250-ETRN\015\012'
reply: '250-DSN\015\012'
reply: '250 SIZE 10485760\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk
PIPELINING
HELP
ETRN
DSN
SIZE 10485760
send: 'mail FROM:<icdcliu at polyu.edu.hk> size=5\015\012'
reply: '250 Sender <icdcliu at polyu.edu.hk> and extensions (size=5)
Ok\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Sender <icdcliu at polyu.edu.hk> and extensions
(size=5)
 Ok
send: 'rcpt TO:<dl at yahoo.com>\015\012'
reply: '250 Recipient <dl at yahoo.com> Ok\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Recipient <dl at yahoo.com> Ok
send: 'data \015\012'
reply: '354 Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>\015\012'
reply: retcode (354); Msg: Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>
data: (354, 'Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>')
send: 'achee'
send: '\015\012.\015\012'
reply: '250 Message received: GHKSNH00.4FJ\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Message received: GHKSNH00.4FJ
data: (250, 'Message received: GHKSNH00.4FJ')
achee
send: 'quit \015\012'
reply: '221 hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP server closing connection\015\012'
reply: retcode (221); Msg: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP server closing
connection

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010806/78c3b68b/attachment.html>

From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Aug  1 04:29:16 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:29:16 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Non-Programmers (was: Changing the Division Operator)
In-Reply-To: <XZw97.5001$9i1.471725@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010801102912.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 31-Jul-2001 Steve Holden wrote:
 >  How about "incidental programmers", since the programming is largely
 >  incidental to the real goals of their activities?

Sounds good to me. I could certainly use that term to describe myself.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    01-Aug-2001
Time:    10:28:07

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 00:31:38 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:31:38 -0400
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
In-Reply-To: <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELALHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?
>
>         [f(x) for x in a]

Maximal clarity in common cases.  See design docs for the Haskell language,
from which Python most directly borrowed this feature; Haskell in turn
adapted it from the SETL language; SETL in turn adapted the notation from
set theory; the name "comprehension" comes from the set-theoretic so-called
Axiom of Comprehension, more directly relevant to forms with an "if" clause.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 17:03:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:03:28 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <9lc3nh01vk0@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote in message
news:slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda...
> Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:20:50 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:
>
> > So now consider:
> >
> >     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
> >
> > How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
> > that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
> > temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)
>
> y.a, (b,c,d), x.e = [wower()] * 3

Neat!  OK, mysentence += "or nested-tuple-unpacking (dbl yech!-)"


Alex





From fred at arakane.com  Sun Aug 19 17:26:44 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:26:44 GMT
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com> <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <9lp2ek$uou$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <oaWf7.56553$MC1.19193428@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:9lp2ek$uou$1 at slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> Frederic Giacometti wrote:
> >All exception classes must be subclasses of the Exception standard class
> >(see standard documentation, or use some common sense ;)).
>
> Technically,
> ] All user-defined exceptions should also be derived from this
> ] class, but this is not (yet) enforced.

Hopefully, Python is not a police-directed totalitarian language; and our
beloved Napoleonic BDFL is there to protect us from the enforcement
straightjacket for everybody :)).
[ Longue vie a l'Empereur Defenseur des Libertes! :))) ]

...
> So there are still two old-style string exceptions in the 2.2 Python
> code, although class exceptions do all finally derive from Exception.

String exceptions refer to the exception value used when raising the
exception.
But even then, string exceptions must be associated to an exception class,
to which the above rule applies...

FG





From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 11:06:04 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:06:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: python extension module / external linkage
In-Reply-To: <1ritf9zks6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271058530.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 27 Aug 2001, John Hunter wrote:

>
> I am building a python extension module with boost::python and am
> getting an error 'ImportError: ./Trade.so: undefined symbol: mtInit'
> when I try to import the module in python.  mtInit is a C function
> declared in a header with 'extern "C"' and defined in an object
> library that I link against when I build the python extension module.
> None of my python wrapper classes use 'mtInit' directly, but one of
> the classes that I am wrapping does call it in its constructor.
>
> When I build the shared library Trade.so to import into python, I
> compile it with
>
> g++ -shared $(LIBPATHS) $(OBJS) -o Trade.so -lboost_python -lA -lB
>
> libA.a and libB.a are both object libraries.  mtInit is defined in
> libA.a.  A class defined in libB.a uses mtInit in the constructor, as
> I mentioned above.
>
> I think I am having some kind of problem with external linkage, but I
> don't know how to go about solving it.
>
> In the .cpp file that I use to build libB.a I have tried
>
>   extern "C" int mtInit(void);
>   extern int mtInit(void);
>
> and both without the 'void' and it always compiles fine but gives me
> the same runtime error in python.
>
> If I build a static executable (not a python extension) and link
> against libA.a and libB.a, I have no problems.  I am new to the game of
> dynamically loaded shared object libraries.  Any suggestions will be
> welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> John Hunter

Try building libB.so as well (passing '-shared' during the link phase). There
are actually specific rules that you should follow, but I don't think they're
entirely necessary. The book "Linux Applciation Development" by Michael K.
Johnson and Erik W. Troan (ISBN 0201308215) describes the process. In fact,
it's a book I recommend to anyone doing any kind of development for Linux in
any language.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 17:24:07 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:24:07 +0200
Subject: windows development in python?
References: <997286691.890518@news2.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <9ksatp010b6@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Steinar" <st-aude at online.no> wrote in message
news:997286691.890518 at news2.cybercity.dk...
> Hi!
>
> I have made a lot of small programs in python, but how do I make windows
> programs?

If you mean programs specifically interacting with Microsoft Windows'
features, you could download from www.activestate.com their win32all
extension package, install it, and buy and study the book on the
subject by Hammond and Robinson, published by O'Reilly.

If you mean programs with a graphical user interface, you have many
choices -- most widespread is Tkinter (if you've used the IDLE development
environment that comes with Python, you've seen Tkinter at work, as
IDLE uses Tkinter), growing in popularity wxPython, also popular PyQt,
PyGtk and other toolkits yet.  I suggest you start with Tkinter, and
specifically with /F's introduction that you can find at
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/.


Alex





From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 06:16:52 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Finally, it can be told!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310609360.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

The reason I have been being very nosy, yet very secretive.

vorbismodule 0.0a
-----------------

This is a Python module that can be use to read files in the Ogg Vorbis
(http://www.vorbis.org/) format, using the same interface as defined in the
wave and sunau modules.

At the moment it only supports reading Vorbis files, and I've only really
tested it under Linux. Please feel free to download it and jump on it, break
it, enjoy it, etc.

It is available at:

  http://ignacio.openservices.net/devel/vorbis-0.0a.tar.bz2

Now go forth and bust some code! :)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 21:49:14 2001
From: grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com (Jeff Grimmett)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:49:14 -0700
Subject: curses? (was: Handling more than one request on a socket)
Message-ID: <2df3d89d.0108291749.6662b651@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all for the suggestions, problem (mostly) solved and on to
other things.

With a working telnet connection, I need to attach an interpreter. I
had read the docs lightly for the cmd module and it looked like just
the ticket. Unfortunately, it appears to be bound to sdtio without
some tinkering.

I didn't want to fuss with curses, but it looked like the quickest way
to the goal.  Imagine my suprise when the script told me that curses
didn't exist! I double checked the lib directory and it sure isn't
there.

The docs make no mention of this being a *nix-only library but it's
starting to look that way.  Is that the case or does it reside as an
add-on somewhere?

I have the framework for a command line interpreter at my diposal but
really wanted to avoid reinventing the wheel here...


From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug  3 19:30:51 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:30:51 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net>

On 03 Aug 2001 20:20:01 GMT, Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
[...]

>Yes, the example I cited was well before all this.  I need to go back
>and reread the LGPL.  One area that was not (and still is not, only because
>I have not kept up with it) clear to me is how code generated by
>flex and bison was to be treated since they include GPLed code in the
>output...  I'll get around to looking into this when I need to.
>
Don't have bison handy for some reason, but no reason to suffer FUD re flex:

>From the "README" file of flex-2_5_4a_tar.gz:

"...
Note that flex is distributed under a copyright very similar to that of
BSD Unix, and not under the GNU General Public License (GPL), except for
the "configure" script, which is covered by the GPL.
... "

and from the "copying" file:

"Flex carries the copyright used for BSD software, slightly modified
because it originated at the Lawrence Berkeley (not Livermore!) Laboratory,
which operates under a contract with the Department of Energy:

	Copyright (c) 1990 The Regents of the University of California.
	All rights reserved.

	This code is derived from software contributed to Berkeley by
	Vern Paxson.
...

This basically says "do whatever you please with this software except
remove this notice or take advantage of the University's (or the flex
authors') name".

Note that the "flex.skl" scanner skeleton carries no copyright notice.
You are free to do whatever you please with scanners generated using flex;
for them, you are not even bound by the above copyright.
..."



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Thu Aug 16 13:53:43 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:53:43 -0700
Subject: PEP 252: __slots__ inappropriate
Message-ID: <OFD7F4FB99.1C3271F2-ON88256AAA.00622537@i2.com>

I think Guido is doing exactly the right thing: get the functionality to
work well first.  Then it will be easier to propose and experiment with
different forms of syntax later.

Jim



                                                                                                                   
                    Guido van Rossum                                                                               
                    <guido at python.org>        To:     python-list at python.org                                       
                    Sent by:                  cc:                                                                  
                    python-list-admin@        Subject:     Re: PEP 252: __slots__ inappropriate                    
                    python.org                                                                                     
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   
                    08/16/01 12:22 AM                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




> In the current implementation of PEP 252, to declare an class with
> slots, you assign to the __slots__ variable inside the class
> definition:
>
> class Foo(object):
>   __slots__ = ['bar','baz']
>
> This declares that every instance of Foo will have two instance
> attributes, namely bar and baz.
>
> I find that this way of defining class properties is inconsistent with
> the rest of the language, in particular with other "magic" class
> attributes:
[...]
> So please consider changing the slot syntax.

I suppose the same goes for __metaclass__ and __dynamic__.  In
python-dev, Ping made a similar request (add more syntax) for class
methods and static methods.  My response is the same; quoting myself:

| Understood, and agreed.  It is my plan to eventually provide syntax
| for this.  However, right now I need to concentrate on getting the
| underlying mechanisms to work.  The unification is a lot of work, and
| I'd like to finish the run-time before I start thinking about
| syntactic sugar.  I can't promise that I'll change the syntax before
| 2.2 is released -- there will be plenty of time after that, and there
| are plenty of more important things to do before I can make the
| release.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Mon Aug 27 17:08:51 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:08:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: line continuations with backslash
In-Reply-To: <7xpu9hter1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108271706001.411-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


Isn't the simplest solution just to put all 300 digits on one line ? 

How many of these do you eexpect to have ?
Does someone have to type them all in without error, or are they
generated ? 

-- Steve Majewski





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 10:02:48 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:02:48 -0500
Subject: Module Name
In-Reply-To: <3689.010815@storm.ru>
References: <3689.010815@storm.ru>
Message-ID: <15226.33032.200391.103529@beluga.mojam.com>

    Kerim> Isn't it odd that "reply-to" for messages from this list is not
    Kerim> python-list at python.org?

No.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From louis at decipherinc.com  Mon Aug 27 18:37:00 2001
From: louis at decipherinc.com (Louis)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:37:00 -0700
Subject: Anyone have success installing Python 2.1 on RedHat 7.1?
Message-ID: <9mei0c$5tv$1@sevenofnine.peak.org>

I cannot get it to run properly.  After all of the dependency errors go
away, still have this:

creating Setup
creating Setup.local
creating Makefile
+ make
gcc -c -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o
Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
In file included from Include/Python.h:54,
                 from Modules/python.c:3:
Include/pyport.h:422:2: #error "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for
platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)."
make: *** [Modules/python.o] Error 1
Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.4044 (%build)

towards the end of the install.  I have tried installing from the regular
tarball, binary RPM, and srcRPM.

Can anyone shed some light on how to get around this?

Thanks,

Louis




From rjhansen at inav.net  Sun Aug  5 09:28:15 2001
From: rjhansen at inav.net (Robert J. Hansen)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 13:28:15 GMT
Subject: PyGTK/PyGNOME questions
Message-ID: <PRbb7.1539$eU4.180330@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Howdy, all.  I'm a long-time C/C++ programmer, still fairly new to Python.  
I've got some code I've written using the PyGTK/PyGNOME bindings, and while 
they're reasonably straightforward, I have some questions.  Namely, once I 
use the create_toolbar or create_menus methods, how do I get a reference 
back to an individual button so that I can manipulate it later?

For instance, suppose I have code such as the following:

def maketoolbar(self):
   self.toolbar_menu = [ lots of UIINFO_ITEM_STOCK calls ]

   self.create_toolbar(self.toolbar_menu)

... That creates a toolbar, nice and simple.  But how do I get a reference 
to, say, the first button widget, so that I can set it active or inactive 
depending on what the user is doing in the application?

Thanks in advance, y'all.  :)


-- 
=====
Robert J. Hansen <rjhansen at inav.net>
PGP Fingerprint: 23C8 C3D1 BBE7 C72D D17D  D008 980E 18A7 82C2 392B
=====


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Wed Aug  8 09:47:25 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:47:25 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com> <slrn9n08ld.vkj.andrew-usenet@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Message-ID: <3b7141eb.1491038@nntp.sprynet.com>

On 07 Aug 2001 18:17:33 +0100 (BST), andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk
(Andrew Walkingshaw) wrote:

>In article <3b6ff692.1462602 at nntp.sprynet.com>, David C. Ullrich wrote:
>>Well there's an obvious "just do it" recursive version. 
>
>Which is much nicer than the following non-recursive one, which makes
>hideously many assumptions about the nature of everything
>(specifically, any more than one depth of nesting in the input and it
>utterly breaks):
>
>from __future__ import nested_scopes
>
>input = [[1,2,3],[4,5],[6,7,8,9],[10],[11,12]]
>
>def permute(list):
>    totlists = 1
>    for x in xrange(len(list)): totlists *= len(list[x])
>    result = [ [] for x in xrange(0, totlists) ]
>    for x in xrange(0, len(list)):
>        for y in xrange(0, len(list[x])):
>            for z in filter(lambda a: divmod(a+y, len(list[x]))[1]==0, 
>                            xrange(0, totlists)):
>                result[z].append(list[x][y])
>        result.sort()
>    return result
>
>if __name__ == "__main__":
>    for line in permute(input):
>        print repr(line)
>
>
>I apologise for how vile this is. :)
>
>This does actually work, but I'd be amazed if the sort didn't do nasty
>things to performance; however, if recursion really bothers you, it's
>yet another answer.

It's been determined in many examples that if recursion really bothers
you when you're writing Python it shouldn't. Or at least it's wrong
to jump to the conclusion that there's anything wrong with it, it
has often come out to be the best solution or close to it.

(There's not all that much recursion in the "obvious" 
recursive approach, if we apply it to a list containing
n lists there will be only n calls. As opposed to the 
first way I wrote it: there's a big difference between

for x in alist[0]:
  for t in CartesianProduct(alist[1:]):

and

tails = CartesianProduct(alist[1:]);
for x in alost[0]:
  for t in tails:

The first version entails hideously many
recursive calls.)

>#!/usr/bin/env python
>#97.110.100.114.101.119.64.108.101.120.105.99.97.108.46.111.114.103.46.117.107
>import sys; print("".join([chr(int(r)) for r in open(sys.argv[0],"r").
>readlines()[1][1:].split('.')])) #needs python 2; adw27 at cam.ac.uk(academic) 


David C. Ullrich


From piercew at hushmail.com  Sun Aug 12 19:54:33 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 16:54:33 -0700
Subject: Problems running a compiled script on Windows.
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108121554.541bfa06@posting.google.com>

I just finished a program/script and compiled it (can't have an
interpreter on the dest. machine).  When I run the .py from the
command line it works fine, however, when I run the .exe from the
command line it doesn't work.  It also doesn't work when I run it from
Explorer.

I'm using Active Python 2.1.1 with Qt on Win2K.  I've tried to find
all the instances of stdout and stderr that might require console. 
Looking through the Win32 Python Programming book I haven't been able
to find anything that works yet.

Does anyone have a pointer or war story they can share?

Thanks,

Wayne


From teo at crepido.com  Thu Aug  2 11:07:11 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:07:11 -0700
Subject: indent in xml
References: <mailman.996723367.12395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108020704.3962c000@posting.google.com>

try this one:



doc.parse(s) # s is the xmlfile...

thedoc = doc.documentElement

books = thedoc.getElementsByTagName("book") # returns a list of all
childs  #                                             with tagName ==
'Book' :)

for book in books:

  title_list = book.getElementsByTagName("title")

  print title_list[0].firstChild.data.strip()

  print book.firstChild.firstChild.data.strip()  



I think this is what you want to do.:) 



/teodor







"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.996723367.12395.python-list at python.org>...



> I want to get the first child node of one node,but because of the indent 



> problem(I think so),the first two child is not what i want ,but the '\n' 



> and '',the xml file is:



> <books>



>   book>



>   <title>Pierre: The Ambiguities</title> 



>   <author>Herman Melville</author> 



>   <price>9.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>    <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>12.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>   <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>15.99</price> 



>   </book>



> </books>



> 



> and my py file is



> 



> >>> from xml.dom.minidom import parse, parseString



> >>> s="d:\\i.xml"



> >>> doc=parse(s)



> >>> doc.childNodeTypes



>  (1, 7, 8, 10)



> >>> doc.nodeName



>  '#document'



> >>> doc.childNodes



>  [<DOM Element: books at 11502084>]



> >>> book=doc.firstChild



> >>> book.childNodes



> [<DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11610468>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11525428>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM
Element: book at 11622660>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node " 
">, <DOM Element: book at 11630100>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text
node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11637540>, <DOM Text node "\n">,
<DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11644948>, <DOM Text node
"\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11652356>, <DOM
Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11659756>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11667156>, <DOM Text node "\n">]



> ###############   how can I delete the <DOM Text node "\n"> and <DOM Text node "  ">



> ##      and what is the meaning of (1, 7, 8, 10)(the reslut of doc.childNodeTypes)



> 



> 



> __________________________________________



> 



> DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm



> ??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm


From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Thu Aug  2 07:44:12 2001
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (gyromagnetic)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 04:44:12 -0700
Subject: getting the culprit from an exception
References: <4620daca.0107281647.4a84a5c8@posting.google.com> <9k97ii0t2v@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <4620daca.0108020344.563da1d4@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9k97ii0t2v at enews2.newsguy.com>...
> Unfortunately, builtin function 'map' doesn't preserve this
> information anywhere, I believe (from studying the sources
> of builtin_map in source file Python/bltinmodule.c).  The
> relevant snippet:

... many illuminating lines snipped ...

> capable of writing them, or more:-).  I do suggest
> that you formally record this enhancement request in
> sourceforge, if it's indeed significant for you.
> 
> 
> Alex


Thanks Alex. I was hoping that I was missing something with regard to
catching an exception in this context.

I've submitted this as an enhancement request on sourceforge.

-Brad


From jcea at argo.es  Wed Aug  8 11:20:27 2001
From: jcea at argo.es (Jesus Cea Avion)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:20:27 +0200
Subject: Article on ZODB Programming
References: <mailman.992939250.8040.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7158BB.14C546CC@argo.es>

> As far as I can see the Zodb is invoked each and every time you start
> your program. Doesn't that give some kind of startup penalty?
[...]
> I am thinking of using Zodb in an asp project, but if I have to reload
> the database every time it will probably be to slow for my own good.

The right thing here would be to have a ZODB server running all the
time, and your ASP calls it using SOAP, CORBA, XML-RPC, Pyro or any
other interprocess communication system.

-- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at argo.es http://www.argo.es/~jcea/ _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
                                      _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
PGP Key Available at KeyServ   _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz


From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 13:45:27 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:45:27 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3187511.KiObB369e8@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schrub:
> Far more useful than (Java/Eiffel/&c) type declaration (which still
> need dynamic dispatching of methods) is supposed to be runtime caching
> of the dispatching (I believe that's what Self uses, for example). 

Well - some implementations create an array of member offsets for every 
different implementation of a type (Class or Interface). Then an Object 
gets just a list of arrays.

Now, when you assign an object to a variable of type t, the compler 
just gets a pointer to the interface array from the object (which 
usually is O(1) without multiple inheritance). When you always keep the 
interface array pointer together with the object pointer, you only have 
to do this lookup at explicit casts - at the cost of doubling the size 
of object references.

And every function and attribute access means one pointer indirection, 
as the offsets of the members in the array are fixed - the types are 
statically known.

This means if you want to access a objects member: Look into the offset 
table, position X (which is known at compile time), and add this value 
to the object address - et voil?, this is the members address.

Some good old cisc machines can do such calculations in one assembly 
instruction, and every reasonable cisc processor should do this in less 
than 6 instructions.

Python (as any other language without static types) has to do some (one 
per namespace) complex dictionary lookups including hash calculations 
and string comparisons here, which is _much_ slower than with fixed 
types. 

This applies with interpreted languages as much as with byte-code- or 
machine-code languages.

Even with caching, dynamic lookups will never be as fast as static 
lookups. And with caching, you get in trouble when multi-threading: 
Imagine a method that signals another thread, and this thread replaces 
the method. But your own thread has cached the old method...

> Python can be fast enough for most tasks today (and more every day,
> as machines get faster).  It could be fast enough (without extensions)
> for a few more tasks (perhaps) if very substantial resources were
> expended in adapting advanced optimization technologies (I don't
> think projects to that end in the past, such as Vyper, went anyplace,
> but that could change in the future -- if enough people thought it
> matters, strongly enough to be willing to donate time, money and/or
> skills to the purpose).  Perhaps some language changes might make
> optimization slightly easier, although I have my doubts whether such
> slightly easier optimization could be achieved without losing the key
> characteristics of Python's simplicity and power (untrammeled
> signature based polymorphism, for example: if the libraries started
> being full of type-testing to make optimizer-writers' life slightly
> easier, that would strike a huge blow to Python's power AND
> simplicity).

As long as Python doesn't allow self-modyfing code (means a block of 
code is immutable once compiled), it should be no problem (except 
implemenation effort) to replace the byte-code compiler with one that 
provides machine code.

But this isn't the main slowdown - it is the dynamic lookup for every 
access. But when we change this, we wouldn't have python any more.

>> I think that adding features to allow Python powerful enough to
>> remove the
>> need for extensions would be worth a little bit of extra complexity. 
>> I
> 
> I could hardly disagree more deeply, profoundly and totally than in
> fact
> I do.  Nothing will remove the need for extensions, although their use
> may become less frequent.

Fully agree. The only way to get around this is to have _very good_ 
optimizing compilers, and to include every needed machine-specific 
detail as a language feature.

In a project at our university (Ulm, Germany), we implement an OS using 
a java-like language (older researches used an oberon derivate). We 
included machine level things using a "virtual" class called Magic. 
This class doesn't physically exist, the compiler directly generates 
the corresponding machine code. This way, we have direct access to 
memory (Magic.mem8[]), Intel IO-Space port commands (Magic.Out(), 
Magic.In) and - for use in the memory management classes - magic.Cast. 
We even can declare methods that use interrupt stack frame instead of 
normal one.

But there are still some places where we have to use our nice inline 
feature - sometimes for speed reasons (Memcopy, TCP-Checksum etc), and 
the other times because they are very specific and needed only at one 
place (MMU-Programming, TSC-Register access etc). 

If you don't include assembly into the language, you always will have 
to use extensions that don't follow the language's rules.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Sun Aug 19 18:49:35 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:49:35 +0200
Subject: dumb newbie list question
References: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org>
Message-ID: <3B80427F.53E233FB@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi!

> Maybe this is a naive/stupid question, but is there anyway to grow a list to an
> arbitrary size?  Eg.:
> 
> >>> l = [1, 2, 3]
> >>> l[5] = "x"

I believe l.append("x") ist what you're looking for.

Kudos, Dietmar


From grante at visi.com  Tue Aug 28 01:50:54 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:50:54 GMT
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com> <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org> <mailman.998964641.22014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9omcb2.1f3.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:07:15 +1000, Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> wrote:
>On Tuesday 28 August 2001 08:27, Mats Wichmann wrote:
>> Unfortunately Red Hat have recently decided that they won't change
>> major versions of key packages on minor Red Hat releases... so we're
>> stuck with Python 1.5.2 as the default until, oh, about RedHat 8.2.
>>
>> Folks need to be told that Linux is wonderful, but Red Hat doesn't
>> necessarily prove that in their choice of what to bundle...
>
>Mandrake 8.0, a red-hat-alike (which I find significantly nicer than Red Hat 
>from a non-sysadmin user installation perspective) shipped with python 2.0 
>some months ago. Mandrake's point-zero releases seem eminently usable...

I've put Mandrake 8.0 on four machines with absolutely no
problems so far -- and an 8.1 beta is out.  My main development
machines are still at RH 6.2.  RH 6.0 was pretty much unusable,
and even though I waited for 6.1 before upgrading from 5.2,
there were still too many problems.  I'm this -><- close to
switching my devleopment system from RH to Mandrake even though
I'd still have to test under RH before releasing...

>I'm currently running 2.0 at home in a bog-standard install and
>2.1.1 from the Mandrake cooker at work. No complaints in the
>months I've been using them both, and I'm a full-time Python
>developer.
>
>I think that people need to know that Red Hat is not Linux.

It's what the vast majority of my customers seem to be running,
so it's the one that matters the most.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  As a FAD follower,
                                  at               my BEVERAGE choices are
                               visi.com            rich and fulfilling!


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 16:00:05 2001
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 20:00:05 GMT
Subject: Help with Parsing HTML files
References: <PM00038A90E4982624@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
Message-ID: <20010802160005.553$QR@newsreader.com>

Charlie Clark <charlie at begeistert.org> wrote:
> .......
> What's the best way to go about parsing the HTML? I've looked at sgmllib
> and htmllib and am a bit lost. The worst thing for me about Python's
> documentation is it's lack of examples. I leafed through all the Python
> books in the bookshop today but failed to find much inspiration. One of
> the problems I'll admit to having is not being able to work out how to
> use a class simply by reading it's code - it just doesn't work for me
> :-((
> .........

Did you read the test sample part that's included in that sgmllib.py?
I mean the "class TestSGMLParser(SGMLParser):"
Some other samples that come within Python distribution:
  .../Tools/webchecker/webchecker.py
  .../test/test_htmlparser.py
  .../test/test_sgmllib.py
Or pickup http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pythlp.py  :-P

But better yet, go back to the bookstore and buy Fredrik Lundh's
Python Standard Library book. You won't regret.
(for this particular problem look pages 132-142)

Regards,
-Hernan

-- 
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
                    Usenet Newsgroup Service


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 27 22:34:54 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 19:34:54 -0700
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com> <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org> <7xsnedlz0m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9mf00e$dta$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <7xsnedlz0m.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) writes:
>>
>> Sigh.  I have this problem with my ISP, and affecting only mailman.
>> Mailman now depends on 2.x Python and since the ISP won't upgrade
>> Python they can't upgrade Mailman.  We're sinking into a hole here...
>
>Unless the dependency is really deep, Mailman should be fixed to
>work with Python 1.5.2.  Lots of people are still using 1.5.2.

Mailman is Unicode compliant.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From grante at visi.com  Tue Aug  7 17:10:11 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:10:11 GMT
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
References: <mailman.997215734.1690.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n0mcs.c7t.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <mailman.997215734.1690.python-list at python.org>, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote:

> Great!  But how can I apply this to all files in a directory, where the
> directory contains 20 files, without listing each file individually?

      for i in *; do
 	sed -e "s/Have a good day/jump off a cliff/g" $i > tmp
 	mv tmp $i
      done
      
Better yet, put it in a file like this:

#!/bin/bash
for f
 do
 sed -e "s/Have a good day/jump off a cliff/g" $f > tmp$$
 mv tmp$$ $f
 done
 
Then you can invoke that file with a filename or a wildcard:

$ foo A B C
$ foo *
$ foo /some/path/or/other/bar[1-9][0-9]*.txt

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Excuse me, but didn't
                                  at               I tell you there's NO HOPE
                               visi.com            for the survival of OFFSET
                                                   PRINTING?


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug 29 06:19:43 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:19:43 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290557370.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291418570.13703-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> I can't think of a time when I've ever seen Python stop. Slow down, yes, but
> not stop.
>
> The truth is, even if there is something you can't do in Python natively, you
> always have the capability to write a module in C that is callable from
> Python.
>
> So the answer, then, is that Python stops wherever C stops. And I don't think
> there's a person alive who's EVER seen C stop. I could be wrong though.

   What about OS kernel modules? You can write them in C, but can you do it
in Python?

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 15:58:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:58:50 -0400
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
In-Reply-To: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B6823@eden.vmlabs.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEABLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[John Schmitt]
> I'm running Windows 2000 and I'm trying to install 2.2a1 when I get this
> error message.

Try installing while logged in to an Administrator account.  Else wait for
2.2a2 -- the 2.2a2 installer is a 32-bit program, and appears to work much
better on Win2K boxes with paranoid settings.

> I've got ActiveState 2.1 installed currently.  What happens when I install
> 2.2a1 - do I need to change registry settings or do I need to simply set
> environment variables?  I don't recollect how do have two installation at
> the same time.

You don't need to do anything, although the file extensions (.py etc) will
get registered to use the most recent version of Python you installed.
Nothing we can do about that -- that's just how Windows works.  The 2.2a2
installer will register file extensions on a per-user basis (on Win2K -- not
possible on other Windows flavors), though, provided you select the
"Non-Admin install" radio button in its "Advanced Options" dialog.  It also
has an option not to register file extensions at all.  None of that exists
in the 2.2a1 (or any earlier) installer.




From slhath at home.com  Sat Aug 25 20:55:26 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:55:26 GMT
Subject: face recognition software
Message-ID: <2OXh7.70245$MC1.22818687@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

Does anyone know of a python face recognition software?  If one does not
exist, does anyone know where one would begin in implementing such a system
(I realize that it would be fairly slow).

Thanks,
Scott




From dgoodger at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 10 18:03:30 2001
From: dgoodger at bigfoot.com (David Goodger)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:03:30 -0400
Subject: HappyDoc alternatives?
In-Reply-To: <O8Tc7.7183$rb.315866@news5.aus1.giganews.com>
References: <O8Tc7.7183$rb.315866@news5.aus1.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <B799D271.15E8B%dgoodger@bigfoot.com>

Diggory Venn <diggory at fatbabies.com> wrote on 2001-08-10 11:33 AM:
> Is happydoc the only python documentation generator?

No, there are others. See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0256.html for a
list of several others.

If you'd like to get involved in the design and implementation of the Python
Docstring Processing System, please visit http://docstring.sourceforge.net/

-- 
David Goodger    dgoodger at bigfoot.com    Open-source projects:
 - Python Docstring Processing System: http://docstring.sourceforge.net
 - reStructuredText: http://structuredtext.sourceforge.net
 - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net





From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Thu Aug 16 11:05:19 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:05:19 +0200
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com>

I never got any response to this. I could really do with knowing whether this
is possible. Can anyone help? Mark?

Thanks,
Paul.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:24:01 +0200, Paul Moore <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com>
wrote:

>I'm trying to do some event handling code using win32com. I'm using a
>component called WScriptEx as my test case, which has a Sleep method which
>fires a regular OnTick event. The IDL for the OnTick event is
>
>        HRESULT OnTick(
>                        [in] VARIANT RemainingTime, 
>                        [in, out] VARIANT* WakeUp);
>
>The WakeUp parameter should be set if the event code wants to stop the sleep
>at this point. I've tried this, and it works fine in VBScript:
>
>    Set WScriptEx = WScript.CreateObject("WshToolbox.WScriptEx", "WScriptEx_")
>
>    ' Sleep for 10 seconds, raising an OnTick event every 1 second
>    WScriptEx.Sleep 10000, 1000
>
>    Sub WScriptEx_OnTick (ByVal Remaining, ByRef Wakeup)
>        WScript.Echo "Tick.... " & Remaining
>        Wakeup = True ' Wake the sleep up
>    End Sub
>
>
>Now, based on a post from Mark Hammond ("Re: Handling Com Events in Python
>(was Python and Windows Scripting Host)" from Fri, 11 Aug 2000) I can do this
>by just returning the necessary value:
>
>    import win32com.client
>
>    class wexEvents:
>        def OnTick(self, Remaining, WakeUp):
>            print "Tick...", Remaining
>            return -1
>
>    wex = win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("WshToolbox.WScriptEx",
>                                             wexEvents)
>
>    wex.Sleep(10000,1000)
>
>But this doesn't seem to work! The thing just keeps ticking remorselessly
>until the 10 seconds are up. (And, BTW, if I hit Ctrl-C, I get an error
>"Unhandled exception detected before entering Python." - shouldn't I get a
>KeybordInterrupt error?)
>
>Am I doing something wrong? Is there a subtle bug here?
>
>Any help would be appreciated - this sort of construct is important to me, and
>I'd hate to be reduced to VBScript or (shudder...) Perl.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul



From msoulier at storm.ca  Thu Aug 30 18:53:39 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:53:39 GMT
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
Message-ID: <Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

    Hey people. 

    I'm writing a web crawler as an exercise, using urllib and htmllib to
recursively crawl through the pages. Whenever urllib.urlopen() throws an
IOError exception the url gets flagged as a broken link. 

    Unfortunately, urllib.urlopen() is blocking for some time on one URL. When
I do an nslookup on it, it times out within a few seconds, since it's a URL
from our internal intranet at work and is not accessible from the internet.
However, urllib.urlopen() takes forever to return. 

    Is there a way to specify a timeout for this library? I can't find a way
in the documentation. 

    Thanks,

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <michael.soulier at home.com>
"Pretty soon, massive bloat is the industry standard and everyone is using
huge, buggy programs not even their developers can love."
    -Eric S. Raymond, The Art of Unix Programming


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 28 01:57:05 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 22:57:05 -0700
Subject: Semaphores?
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org> <7xwv3og71o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9mf6u5$r74$1@panix2.panix.com> <7xofp0sqnm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9mfbrh$7u2$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <7xofp0sqnm.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>>Paul Rubin:
>>>
>>>Anyone got a favorite way to implement shared memory semaphores in
>>>Python?  The obvious way is with an atomic test-and-set operation in
>>>the mmap module, but none seems to be listed in the docs.  Is there a
>>>preferred way to do it?  If not, should I submit a PEP to add
>>>something to mmap?
>> 
>> Do you have a cross-platform solution?
>
>There's no totally portable way to do it (it's not part of C
>semantics) but there should be reasonable implementations possible on
>all modern platforms.

Ah.  Well, let me channel Tim and Guido and tell you to come back when
you have a patch that supports the following platforms:

Linux
Windows
Mac OS X
Solaris
HP-UX

Portability is one of Python's prime virtues, and I know that Guido and
team *hate* maintaining lots of platform-specific code.  Do feel free to
write up the PEP, though; having a design spec is one of the necessary
requisites for getting anywhere.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 11:45:53 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:45:53 -0500
Subject: Bug in __imul__
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141931120.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <XFMail.20010716093616.mikael@isy.liu.se>
        <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141931120.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15225.18353.870486.617088@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roman> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mikael Olofsson wrote:   <---
    >> On 13-Jul-2001 Piet van Oostrum wrote:       <---

    Roman> Where from this ancient letter appeared?
    Roman> I think, it's a bug in someone's software.

    ...

I've noticed a number of duplicate messages recently.  Not a big swarm as we
usually get.  Just an occasional one here or there.

helps-compete-with-c.l.perl.*-on-usenet-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 12 01:04:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:04:43 -0400
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
In-Reply-To: <slrn9n0nku.im5.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEBLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Quinn Dunkan]
> ...
> Generators are cool, but I think they have a danger of other
> "cool" features:  the urge to use them when you don't really need them.

The criteria should be what's easiest to read a year later; "need" has
nothing to do with it <wink>.

> I fall into this with list comprehensions all the time.  I'll need
> some simple operation, and write
> [ f(x) for x in a ].  Then I'll need to do some more, so I'll write
> [ g(f(x)) for x in a + b ].  I wind up with things like
>
> for k, v in [ k.strip(), v.strip() for k, v in line.split('=')
>                 for line in open(self.config_file).readlines()
>                 if not line.beginswith('#') ]:
>     self.dict[k] = v
>
> ... which I quickly dismantle and rewrite as a series of statements
> in the loop, which I'll have to do anyway if I want the "parsing" to
> be smarter.  I should have started with a loop in the first place.

Why?  Believe it or not, lines of Python code have no egos, and truly aren't
offended when they're thrown away.  To the contrary, a listcomp is deeply
offended when you stuff too much between its brackets.  They're slim little
things, excellent as bookends but too insubstantial to support oceans of
vertical space.  You're simply sensitive to their tortured screams, and
that's a *good* thing!

> I have a feeling that myself and others are going to feel tempted to
> use generators when a list would be more flexible and easier to
> understand.

Well, we already see that happening, and the feature hasn't even been
released yet.  People with a "everything is a space potato!" bent will try
to use space potatoes for everything, and there's simply no hope for them
short of coming back to Earth.

from __future__ import generators

def range(start, stop):
    if start >= stop:
        return
    code = "def inner():\n"
    i = start
    while i < stop:
        code += " yield %r\n" % i
        i += 1
    d = {}
    exec code in d
    for x in d['inner']():
        yield x

for i in range(10L**20, 10L**20+3):
    print i

This is probably not the best way to extend range() to handle Python longs,
but I expect to see it submitted as a patch within a week <wink>.

> They make it easy to give yourself an "it'll be more efficient"
> rationale, and we all know how misleading those are.  Besides,
> they're just plain nifty.  Like list comprehensions, I'll be
> (subconciously, perhaps) *looking* for uses for them.

That's not bad!  Playing with features is a good way to learn their
limitations, and discover their natural niches.  Just clean up your mess
when it's time to go home.

guilt-is-your-friend-companion-and-infallible-guide-ly y'rs  - tim




From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 29 18:18:17 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:18:17 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b8c6396.98182759@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:25:51 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net>
wrote:

:I have a question about file locking aspect of the fcntl module for Unix
:systems.
:
:I was checking out the man pages on the Linux system that I use (my
:webhost), and under man flock(2) it mentions (among other things):
:
:NOTES
:       flock(2) does not  lock  files  over  NFS.   Use  fcntl(2)
:       instead:  that  does  work  over NFS, given a sufficiently
:       recent version of Linux and a server which supports  locking.
:
:       flock(2)  and fcntl(2) locks have different semantics with
:       respect to forked processes and dup(2).
:
:Python docs for the fcntl module state:
:
:lockf(fd, operation, [len, [start, [whence]]])
:	This is essentially a wrapper around the fcntl() locking calls. 
:	fd is the file descriptor of the file to lock or unlock, and...
:
:Am I correct, then, in interpreting these together, to mean, that I will
:get greater portability/control if I use fcntl.lockf than if I use
:fcntl.flock? Because, as I read this, fcntl.lockf may work in situations
:where fcntl.flock does not (especially over NFS?).

while 1:
    print "don't do locks over NFS!"


This position may POSSIBLY be able to be softened for NFS V4.
Mats Wichmann



From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Mon Aug 13 17:14:39 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:14:39 -0400
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3d8zgnmzls.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> quoted:
> Can we expect variable declarations a few minor releases from
> now, then?  That would presumably be consistent with the new
> focus on protecting typical users from themselves.

It also seems unlikely that newbies run into this problem much,
because assigning __class__ is unlikely to be done by accident, and
because people coming from C++ don't expect that to even be possible.
I can't recall very many people asking about class reassignment tricks
on c.l.py.

> "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
> news:cpzo94dqvy.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
> > And all I'm trying to do is to make those things safer.  A chainsaw is
> > a great tool -- and also very dangerous.  Should we forbid the use of
> > chainsaws?  Of course not.  Should we try to make them safer by adding
> > protective devices?  Of course we should!

A few weeks ago there was an article in the _Washington Post_ about
someone who's invented a safety device for table saws.  It somehow
detects if the user is touching the blade (the article implies it was
through the conductivity of human flesh -- perhaps a current flows
when a finger completes the circuit) and stops the blade within a few
milliseconds, faster than the pain would travel from your finger to
your brain.  A standard demonstration is to stick a hot dog into the
table saw's blade; the blade stops so quickly that the hot dog is only
nicked.

The problem is that he can't find manufacturers who want to include
it.  The device costs $150, which is unacceptably high for a low-end
table saw that costs $300 now.  Manufacturers could add it to their
high-end $3000 models, but then they might be sued by someone injured
on a low-end saw because a safety device existed but wasn't available
to them.  So they're simply not adding the device at all.

Moral: Additional safety has costs, and sometimes that cost is too
high to pay.  :)

--amk


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 12 20:30:50 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:30:50 -0400
Subject: Problems running a compiled script on Windows.
References: <9d848d5d.0108121554.541bfa06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B771FBA.B73C3F07@engcorp.com>

Wayne wrote:
> 
> I just finished a program/script and compiled it (can't have an
> interpreter on the dest. machine).  When I run the .py from the
> command line it works fine, however, when I run the .exe from the
> command line it doesn't work.  It also doesn't work when I run it from
> Explorer.

Always describe *how* something doesn't work.  What are the
symptoms?  Does the computer crash?  Does nothing appear to 
happen?  Does everything work *except* some minor part of 
the logic?  It could be any of these or a zillion other things.
(Describing what "works fine" means in the case of your
program might be of some help, too.)

Also, there is no standard Python way to create .exe files 
on Windows.  Which method did you use?

You imply that even the .py doesn't work from Explorer.  Maybe
the issue has nothing to do with the .exe, and everything to
do with a problem related to the reason it won't run in 
Explorer.  Are you perhaps looking at two different problems?
(If you run a .py from Explorer, it just opens a console 
anyway.  Were you running it as a .pyw, or invoking pythonw
directly, or was this whole assumption wrong?)

> I'm using Active Python 2.1.1 with Qt on Win2K.  I've tried to find
> all the instances of stdout and stderr that might require console.

Neither stdout nor stderr *require* the console.  That is, the program 
will run fine without a console, other than that any output sent to
those files will not appear anywhere, which could obviously
prevent some programs from appearing to work.  Is your program 
failing in some other way, and you are assuming it is because
you have prints which can't "go" anywhere?  I'm not sure
there is enough information in your post to point out an obvious
place to look for a fix... (of course, that has rarely stopped
some people in this group from providing useful and correct 
answers, but it might help a little :-)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 07:10:46 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:10:46 GMT
Subject: Python Books 
References: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Ww5h7.12244$6x5.3290866@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

Relfx wrote:

> I was wandering if anyone here read the few books that are out there for
> python. Lately the only set of books i have seen that give alot of info
> are the O'Reilly editions such Learning and Programming with python.
> 
>     Are these books the best to have considering I'm still moving up the
> ladder of programming? Also are there going to more publications to
> support python programming?
> 
> 
> 
> 
i have both books from O'Reilly and they are quite ok, allthough i think 
for beginners, 'Learning Python' touches some quite complicated matters 
early on , as they apparently have C and C++ background (eg, argument 
passing, the authors do that for concisenes and completeness, and that's ok 
if you somehow know already some programming concepts). if you don't 
immediately understand some concepts, try some programming and eventually 
you will.
anyway i'd recommend those books with 4 to 5 stars on the Amazon-site
with some library reference book (or online reference), they're the only 
books you need.



From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sun Aug  5 17:33:26 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:33:26 GMT
Subject: sockets and classes
References: <Xns90F0321874812rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <20010801143653.04329.00000760@mb-mh.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F4DDC7F77B9rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

TheDustbustr wrote:

Well, Steve Holden gave you an answer with respect to the returning-of-
None problem (I'm sure he's right about it). I also have the distinct 
impression that the parse() member function does not parse things the 
way the RFC intended, but I'm too lazy to look it up. I do remember 
that there is a general way to parse it into command/arguments/data, 
which does not depend on the type of command.


>     data = irc.sock.recv(2048)
>     log.raw.write(data)
>     arg = irc.parse(data)


That is not the way to do it. The manual says:
   recv(bufsize[, flags]) 
     Receive data from the socket. The return value is a string
     representing the data received. The maximum amount of data to be
     received at once is specified by bufsize. See the Unix manual
     page recv(2) for the meaning of the optional argument flags; it
     defaults to zero.

So there's no guarantee about how much data actually is read in 'data', 
except that in your case  (len(data) >= 1) and (len(data) <= 2048).
Moreover, you can't expect 'data' to contain exactly one line of data. 
On a good connection, especially a local one,  this might be the case 
because the server probably will sent its data a line at a time, and if 
that line it fits into a packet it will probably get to the receiving 
end as a single unit, but when that packet gets routed across many 
nodes (which can split and combine packets when they feel like it) 
things might not work out so neatly.

As long as the connection persists TCP/IP guarantees that data will 
arrive intact and in the order it was sent. It doesn't guarantee, 
however,  *when* it will arrive, and what the size is of the chunks it 
arrives in. Caveat emptor.


Robert Amesz


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 05:32:23 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:32:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996682083.19421.python-list@python.org> <9kb8mq02bd2@enews1.newsguy.com> <Xns90F19B5D37704michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9kbpjj0kb@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F26B7747E94michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in
news:9kbpjj0kb at enews1.newsguy.com: 

> "Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Xns90F19B5D37704michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
>>
>> I agree
>> wholeheartedly with your sentiments, but I'm wondering if you're aware
>> of just how difficult what you're describing is to achieve!? 
> 
> I suspect we may be talking at cross-purposes -- I don't request
> a language that will in fact absolutely CHECK assertions containing
> universal or existential quantifiers, nor one that will always be
> able to take advantage of them to further optimization or other
> type-inference goals: just one that will let me *express* such
> assertions simply, which, per se, isn't all that hard.

Um.  But I don't see the point.  If the compilers going to ignore 
everything you write, then why not just put your assertions into comments?  
It's what we all have to do already!

> 
> Surely it wouldn't be the first time a language let me express
> design-intent aspects without committing any implementation of
> the language to doing anything in particular about them!  Don't
> you recall the 'register' keyword in C, for example?  Nowadays
> compilers do their own register allocation -- but I still get to
> express my design intent "and, I believe this thing here should
> live in a register" to my heart's content. 

I always thought that compiler register allocation made the register 
keywork pointless.  Surely using this keyword is just noise now.

> Not much, as far
> as expression design intentions goes, but, a start.  Similarly,
> I recall BSD variants where my programs were ALLOWED to give
> hints to the operating systems about their intentions wrt some
> files or memory areas -- "I think I'll just read this file
> right through" or "I'll jump up and down all over this file
> in random-access so I don't think I would bother doing any
> prefetch if I were you", and so on, and so forth.  Sometimes,
> when reading such programs, such expressions of design intent
> were illuminating, in ways that comments and other forms of
> documentation rarely are.  And, hey, maybe SOME versions of the
> system did/will take advantage of my design-hints, so, why not?

Seems to me that there'd only be any point in putting such hints into your 
program if there was a chance that they'd have some concrete effect.  
Otherwise you might as well just write good comments, surely?

> 
> We may have gotten too focused on the imperative and declarative
> to exploit the value of *design-intent hints*.  The assertions
> I'd like to be able to make aren't just hints, but even if they
> work like no more than that, I still think they'd be a pre-req
> before one can state a language has types in a meaningful sense.
> 
> Eventually, 'checking modes' where some of the assertions were
> partially checked (maybe just at runtime, maybe just during
> some kinds of very thorough tests...), and 'optimizing modes'
> where some of the assertions were relied upon for possible
> optimizations (maybe just when compiling with "optimize all
> you can please" flags), might emerge.  

Interesting idea.  So, our "high level abstract assertions" can be used in 
several ways:
1.  To supplement comments
2.  As a pious hope that the complier will check and validate them (fat 
chance!)
3.  As run time debug consistency checks
4.  To generate automated thorough tests
5.  As a stepping stone to the future

Hmm.  Well, for 1 I think we should write comments, and it seems we're 
agreed that 2 is implasible.  Of course, it sounds like you'd like an 
assertion language that is not fully amenable to 3 (after all, checking 
quantifiers can't necessarily be done in finite time), but I suppose we 
could expect that a compiler could make a stab at generating sensible 
tests.  Automatically generated tests is an interesting idea as well, and 
would be very handy: the abstract assertions could be used to guide the 
generation of tests.


> Automatic deductions
> and inferences would be a potential further step.  But I think
> the key step is the first one -- ALLOWING me to express those
> design-intent constraints!  I won't pay a dime extra to be
> able to say something pretty useless such as "I intend X to
> be a list" (particularly because it's *NOT* what I _really_
> should intend -- 'a mutable sequence', MAYBE:-); I might be
> much better disposed could I express "I intend X to be a
> mutable sequence with an odd number of items such that at
> all times items with an even positive index are strictly
> greater than either of their neighbors" -- now *THAT* is
> what I'd call "typing".

But what do you gain by writing all this in a formal language that's going 
to be quietly ignored by all your tools?  Why not just write good comments?


>  (No, I wouldn't insist on THAT
> being checked at compile-time... even checking it at RUN
> time might be expensive enough that I'd be quite content
> with only checking partially, and/or only when using certain
> flags, if at all -- but my point is that, THIS is the kind
> of things I find myself wishing I *COULD* usefully express,
> *NOT* 'X is a list', 'Y is a complex', 'Z is a tuple of
> float'... so, I think that for languages to claim they're
> doing 'typing checks' for me, when such trivialities is all
> they can or do check, violates truth in advertising!-).

Oh, that's unfair!  After all, there is always a trade-off in type checking 
between the expressive power of the language being checked and how much 
checking is actually performed.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 25 11:05:03 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:05:03 +0100
Subject: Ref Count Checking
Message-ID: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

As part of an extension debugging exercise I printed refcounts
relating to the structure
('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
either created directly in Python or by my extension.


An earlier pass revealed values of decrementing values 
for the None output from the extension (it was stealing a None).
After Correcting I'm still getting differences.
In particular the strings az1, ay1, b1, c1, d1, e1 seem to have counts from the
extension which are 3 lower than from the python version.

Is there any way to deduce what the python count should be? 
I'm assuming that a string like az1 is reasonably unique so there
shouldn't be any question of a library reference.

('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
T6 a1:10 D7 z1:9 az1:7 L7 b1:10 T7 c1:10 D7 y1:9 ay1:7 L7 d1:10 N209 e1:10 N209
('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
T6 a1:7 D7 z1:9 az1:4 L7 b1:7 T7 c1:7 D7 y1:9 ay1:4 L7 d1:7 N209 e1:7 N209

############################
import ext
import sys, string
from types import StringType, DictType, TupleType, ListType
def TL(ob):
        C = ob is None and 'N' or {StringType:'S', DictType:'D', ListType:'L', TupleType: 'T'}[type(ob)]
        if C =='S': C = ob + ':'
        return '%s%d' % (C, sys.getrefcount(ob))

def RC(ob,L=None):
        if L is None: L = []
        L.append(TL(ob))

        t = type(ob)
        if t in (ListType,TupleType):
                for i in ob: RC(i,L)
        elif t is DictType:
                K = ob.keys()
                K.sort()
                for k in K:
                        L.append(TL(k))
                        L.append(TL(ob[k]))
        return L

p=('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
print p
print string.join(RC(p))
del p

p=ext.val()
print p
print string.join(RC(p))
-- 
Robin Becker


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Wed Aug  8 00:55:30 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 04:55:30 GMT
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <6yNb7.78753$EP6.18929455@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <4840ntsemvg19nb961td2a1qc4sr29seg5@4ax.com> <6iXb7.79438$EP6.19274259@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <2dh1ntkn31npqc56j4hr7adirt77gr4f3k@4ax.com>

>> Yes, but the point is, linked lists, if added, still wouldn't be any faster
>> for just about anyone.
>
>Sorry, cannot make sense of that statement.

You can't? It's clear enough. The average person doesn't dump thousands
of items into a link list. That's what it takes in order for Python to "see" the
O(1) complexity benefits that linked lists offer. Read other messages in this
thread for a better explanation.

C//



From new_name at mit.edu  Fri Aug  3 15:48:52 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 15:48:52 -0400
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <etd3d78exgb.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Check out boxedpenguin.com.  There's no python in it, and it's just
getting going, but the guys behind it are really, really good.

Alex.


From breakfast at 10.am  Thu Aug 30 11:24:16 2001
From: breakfast at 10.am (mallum)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:24:16 +0100
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
Message-ID: <20010830162416.B664@10.am>

Hi all;

I recently build Python 2.1.1 against uClibc for a low specced ( 16mg ram,
200mhz ) ARM cpu Linux box .

Python runs fine interactively, I can import modules and run simple
scripts ok. However when I try a launch a python script ( such as one
of the tests in the distrubution ), Python just 'locks up', not even
recieving a control-c . The box is still alive and appears to have
memory still available ( ~ 5 mb ). 

I've tried running with -v and python is indeed importing modules etc,
but then it just stops and not on any particular module. 

Any one have any ideas on why this is happening ? Or can anyone
suggest any avenues of investigation ? 

Many thanks;

Mallum



From guido at python.org  Thu Aug 23 00:07:38 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:07:38 GMT
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
References: <mailman.998474253.20685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpn14rctfp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Simon Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> writes:

> > From:	Guido van Rossum [SMTP:guido at python.org]
> > Actually, ActivePython is an extended subset of the standard
> > distribution -- it doesn't include IDLE and the Tcl/Tk libraries
> > necessary for Tkinter support.  IDLE is a pretty good alternative to
> > Pythonwin.
>  
> I believe that ActivePython *does* include IDLE and Tkinter these days,
> though older releases didn't.

I stand corrected.  Originally, they were excluded, and when I
complained about this, ActiveState wasn't very interested.  Glad to
see they've changed their mind.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sun Aug  5 17:33:30 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:33:30 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net> <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns90F42767ED10Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3b6cc64c.4395340@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90F4DBDD6688rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 02:13:04 GMT, Robert Amesz
> <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> wrote: 
> 
>> [... 1.20 version of above info ...]
>>
>>So the terms of use may very well have changed after this was
>>written, and it may not appply to some or all versions of Bison
>>above 1.20, but this is what I have on the subject.
>>
> They did change, apparently ;-)

It certainly looks that way. Thanks for clearing that up.


> I don't think they can change their mind back, can they?

Not for that particular version, I'd say. If they'd ever make a version 
which produces substantially different output they could do it, but I 
don't think they will. LGPL is now firmly established next to GPL.


> The most recent time stamp of a file in that .gz file of 1.28
> is a couple of years old now.

Well, Bison/Yacc and Flex/Lex are typical tools which are at in the 
twilight of their development cycles. They are still useful, but the 
best you can hope for is a couple of bugfixes every few years. Good, 
reliable stuff, but most definitely *not* leading edge.


Robert Amesz


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug  3 21:25:11 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 01:25:11 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8jjmmtkfpsga1jam9vsfjrs82iulkd05an@4ax.com>

>I agree with you that the room for improvement is in extending the 
>libraries. The success of C in particular, and to a lesser extent of C++, 
>is testimony to the value of this approach.

I'd say that Java's three biggest reasons for success are hype,
marketing, and the kitchen sink. With the kitchen sink being the
relevant part at the moment. :)


C//



From tigra_564 at mail.ru  Wed Aug 22 07:06:07 2001
From: tigra_564 at mail.ru (Tigra)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:06:07 -0700
Subject: eval errors tracing
References: <aaf95f4f.0108210934.3d5af6c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.998418151.27551.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aaf95f4f.0108220306.32eb6ad3@posting.google.com>

> Check out the traceback module, especially the print_tb and format_tb
> functions:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-traceback.html
> 
> They are typically called like
> 
>     traceback.print_tb(sys.get_exc_info()[2])

I don't want to get errors printed as the standard tools do. I want to get the
line number and do some complicated manupulations with it (they are really more
than just string.zfill(lineno, 4)). For now I use a dirty hack:
get str(exc_info()[1]), then find by a regexp the line number, then do what I want.
But I consider dirty hacks aren't the best solutions.

Sergey


From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Aug  5 17:29:04 2001
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:29:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
References: <mailman.996953108.7259.python-list@python.org> <9khs4l$4iv$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <9kkdr0$t3k$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:03:47 +0300, <whats_really_hot at hotmail.com>:
> thanks for ur time and ur precious answers.
> but, __name__ why doesn't take the __main__ value when we write code in the
> interpreter? besides that, this is the name of the current module.(?)
> 
> 

I'm sorry, but I am not sure what you mean.

>>>print __name__
__main__
>>>dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__']


__name__ is what the variable is called. The name of the variable
is not going to change. The value of the variable might change though.

>>>__name__='The Larch'
>>>print __name__
The Larch






From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 10 22:56:28 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 02:56:28 GMT
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B749F5D.70605@ActiveState.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Also the sendkeys command and control is un-robust. Is there a native
> win32com way to do this and perhaps wait on the windows/events I
> initiate before doing the capture?

There is a new "keybd_event" function in win32api.  It is almost 
certainly not in the binary that you have, but could be built from sources.

I have no idea if it allows PrintScreen, but my guess is that it will 
not, and that WSH's version is simply a wrapper around this API function.

Probably-not-much-help ly,

Mark.



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug  7 12:36:15 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:36:15 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071215460.8658-100000@fleet1>
Message-ID: <031301c11f5f$148ca3c0$0300000a@holdenweb.com>

[posted & mailed]

----- Original Message -----
From: <fleet at teachout.org>
To: "python list" <python-list at cwi.nl>
Cc: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie Question!


> >   From: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
> >Subject: Re: Newbie Question!
> >
> >Well I can answer your first question: see
> >
> >    http://pydish.holdenweb.com:8080/DeptHome/python
> >
> >(which is itself a pure Python web) for a small CGI server in Python.
I
> >think you'll be surprised how small. Run that from the same directory
as an
> >index.html file containing your favored HTML page, and access is at
> >
> >    http://127.0.0.1:8000/
>
> Assume two givens:
>   1.  The script works as advertised - attested to by "bob."
>   2.  I'm clueless - can be attested to by most regular readers of
this list/group for the
> past couple of weeks.
>
> I get the following when I attempt to run the script:
>
> [/home/dev/cbamc]$ python cgiserver.py
> localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] code 403, message
Directory listing not
> supported
> localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] "GET / HTTP/1.0"
403 -
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "cgiserver.py", line 5, in ?
>     httpd.serve_forever()
>   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 195, in
serve_forever
>     self.handle_request()
>   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 210, in
handle_request
>     request, client_address = self.get_request()
>   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 223, in get_request
>     return self.socket.accept()
> KeyboardInterrupt <---- me getting out
>
> The directory contains only 'index.html' (rather lengthy) and
'cgiserver.py.'
>

Seems like it might be a versioning problem, if indeed there really is
anything wrong at all. From the traceback, it looks like your server was
sitting there waiting to accept a request. I'm guessing you didn't use
the right URL in your browser! In which case see below for the right
one...

It works fine for me under Python 2.0 on Windows 98, for example:

D:\Temp>python cgis.py

[Access root page as http://127.0.0.1:8000] <<< NOTE: the server serves
port 8000

localhost.i95.net - - [07/Aug/2001 12:25:22] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 -

and sure enough the (very small) index.html from the D:\Temp directory
appears in my browser. I wasn't aware of any breakages under 1.5.2, but
it's rather a long time since I used it. If you don't like putting a
port number in your URLs, just change "8000" to "80" in the server code.

Once you've seen your index.html page, you can add others, and call them
up too, (by name, of course), and even build hypertext links between
them. Good luck!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 03:45:38 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:45:38 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Copy constructors 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131015580.28208-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131137040.28208-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Roman Suzi wrote:

> For example, by using __builtin__ trick:
> 
> class MyNumber(integer):
> 
>    def myadd(self, x, y):
>      return x*y
> 
>    __builtin__.add = myadd
> 
> 
> The essence of the idea is to gather builtin (C) methods into special
> namespace: __builtin__, the same way it is done with builtin fuctions.
> This will allow Python programmers to remember less details and
> will give shadowing for free!!!
> 
> The summary of proposal is to leave things as they are, but to introduce
> __builtin__ namespace for optimized methods.
> 
> (Name __builtin__ could be different)

I forgot to mention that inheritance rules for __builtin__ could 
be made explicit, if needed:


class MyNumber(no_builtins(type(1))):
   ...

or

class MyNumber(type(1)):
   ...

where no_builtins() is function on classes, making changes
to, say, __builtin__.

Or even:

class MyNumber(inline(type(1))):
  ...

Which will bring type(1).__builtin__  directly into 
MyNumber namespace, wrapping raw C-methods if necessary.

I think, this is good idea.

And also I think class definitions must allow
to use sequences, so, some filter function could be applied:

class C(filter(myrule, [A,B])):
  pass



Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 03:49:53 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:49:53 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051130350.764-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Hello!

The following code is from CGI script and provides way to have
nice calendar:

------------------------------------------------------------
from __future__ import generators
import calendar, string
def calt(year, month):
    month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
    yield """<B>%s.%s</B>""" % (month, year)
    yield """<TABLE BORDER=1>"""
    for week in month_cal:
      yield """\n<TR>"""
      for day in week:
        yield """<TD>%s</TD>""" % (day or "&nbsp;")
      yield """</TR>"""
    yield """</TABLE>"""

print string.join(calt(2001, 8), "")
--------------------------------------------------------

I like generators :-)
(Probably Python should use "black bullet" or "*" instead of "yield":

--------------------------------------------------------
from __future__ import generators
import calendar, string
def calt(year, month):
    month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
    * """<B>%s.%s</B>""" % (month, year)
    * """<TABLE BORDER=1>"""
    for week in month_cal:
      * """\n<TR>"""
      for day in week:
        * """<TD>%s</TD>""" % (day or "&nbsp;")
      * """</TR>"""
    * """</TABLE>"""

print string.join(calt(2001, 8), "")
----------------------------------------------------------------

What do you think?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Aug 15 00:07:03 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:07:03 +0200
Subject: Unable to import dll extension that relies on a second dll
References: <9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7hscl9.eh4.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 14 Aug 2001 20:39:07 -0700, John M. Camara <camara at home.com> wrote:
>I have not been able to create a Python extension in Windows 
>that requires a call to a function in another dll.  In the 
>simplified example below a function called foo in extension.dll 
>calls bar a function in supporting.dll.  I used SWIG to wrap the 
>functions in extension.dll and compiled both dlls in Borland C++ 
>Builder 5.  When I try to import the extension I get an import 
>error stating that the module could not be found.

Do you have supporting.dll in the PATH?

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Sat Aug  4 14:03:15 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 04 Aug 2001 14:03:15 -0400
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dd76bk8ik.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:
> >         well. Most templating languages assume the content is mostly
> >         HTML with just a few small bits of program code here and
> 
> I would say that most "small" template languages are like that, but
> DTML, JSP and ASP surely support almost any kind of textual document.
> Only supporting HTML in a template system is far too limiting in my
> view. Enhydra's XMLC seems to be constrained in certain additional

The assumption I'm talking about isn't that the output is assumed to
be HTML or text, but that templates are assumed to be mostly plain
HTML with only occasional escapes into program code or variable
expansions.  That assumption may have once been true, and still is if
all you're doing is inserting the current date or picking a random
quotation; one <!--#thingy--> and you're done, but for most modern,
heavily dynamic Web sites I expect the density of program code is much
higher.

> But doesn't this help to obscure the form of the final document? I was
> once an advocate of building pages up from well-defined, "trusted"
> components which represent a particular concept, but there are some
> situations where logical components of a document don't just fit into
> a self-contained part of a document; for example, attributes of
> objects that one is trying to represent may be mixed together into
> adjacent cells in an HTML table.

I'm not clear on what you mean; can you give a clearer example?
Surely the code to generate the entire table can be rolled up into a
single function, which answers much the same purpose.

Incidentally, it strikes me that Quixote might be easier to use with
Jython than Zope is.  The hardest part would be translating the PTL
template generator because that uses the compiler module to generate
Python bytecodes; perhaps it could be changed to generate straight
Python output which could then be run through Jython's compiler.  I
see no way to give that acceptable performance, though.

--amk


From inflicted at rocketmail.com  Wed Aug  1 13:17:34 2001
From: inflicted at rocketmail.com (Theasolon)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:17:34 +0300
Subject: newbie
References: <861gmtojn1b9ohrvp3aqqdh927isp7297r@4ax.com> <20010801.102717.1139901474.14029@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <kaegmtcc013b0njnepih4g2dvi0k6q1vm4@4ax.com>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:20:11 GMT, "Mark Nenadov"
<mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca> wrote:

>In article <861gmtojn1b9ohrvp3aqqdh927isp7297r at 4ax.com>, "Theasolon"
><inflicted at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm newbie to this all, and done some research. I want to start to learn
>> programming, and I believe Python is a good language to start. I have
>> absolutely no experience in programming, so does anyone here have any
>> tips for newbies? I've found several tutorials etc, but if anyone has
>> any tips at all, please mail me. Maybe a good website to start etc.
>> Thanks.
>> 
>
>Hello. I think Python is a great choice.
>
>Being a new programmer, you may find the following resources helpful:
>
>http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/
>http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/
>http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>
>Those tutorials are great for people who want to start programming with
>Python, but need also need a gentle introduction to some concepts of
>programming.

Thanks for your time and links. I checked some of these sites, and
they were just what I needed. 
So, thanks again :).

Theasolon.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 15:35:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:35:46 +0200
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net> <3B7023A4.6020408@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9kpg5k02utj@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B7023A4.6020408 at herts.ac.uk...
>
> Joseph A. Knapka wrote:
>
> > PEP proposal: add a backtracking Horn-clause resolution
> > engine to Python!
> >
> >  :-)
> >
> > This problem is a two-liner in Prolog:
> >
> > one_of_each([],[]).
> > one_of_each([H|T],[H1|Ts]) :- member(H1,H), one_of_each(T,Ts).
    ...
> backtracking Horn-clause resolution engine, that can't be real
> terminology, I am sure you just plagerised Elmer Fudge :)

The terminology is right, but the Prolog example he gives looks
just like a transliteration of a ML or Haskell program and uses no
backtracking that I can see.  The imperative equivalent:

def one_of_each(items, containers):
    for item, container in zip(items, containers):
        if not item in container: return 0
    return 1

or the high-level-functional one:

def one_of_each(items, containers)
    import operator as op
    return reduce(op.and, map(op.contains, containers, items))

appear to be at least as good to me as the recursive one...


Alex





From jagbdotx at yahoo.com.br  Tue Aug  7 12:45:38 2001
From: jagbdotx at yahoo.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o?= Alfredo)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 13:45:38 -0300
Subject: SocketServer module (newbie)
Message-ID: <997202750.8146.16.camel@spoc>

Hi people,

Does anyone have a piece of code, example, HOWTO, direction, anything
about this module. I can't put my little server app to work just with
the Library Reference.

Thanks in advance!



Jo?o Alfredo



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From arturs at iidea.pl  Sun Aug 26 19:37:37 2001
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:37:37 GMT
Subject: bsddb for simple database [very basic]
References: <mailman.998864979.13957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9oj2ef.bhp.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>On 26 Aug 2001, Artur Skura wrote:
>> etc, I will just have standard dictionary pairs, with strings.
>> I need records. How do I do that?
>
>"Keys and values must be strings, however, so to use other objects as keys or
>to store other kinds of objects the user must serialize them somehow,
>typically using marshal.dumps or pickle.dumps."
>
>You wanted very simple database functionality, you found it. Anything more
>complex is up to you.
 
OK, I will use dumps/loads. I just thought there might be a more
transparent way, maybe with another db module.

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org
.
.
.
Klub Pi?tej Linijki w Sygnaturce


From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Fri Aug  3 13:51:09 2001
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 13:51:09 -0400
Subject: Precision Issue
In-Reply-To: <81b5a7b9.0108030852.1234fa4d@posting.google.com>
References: <81b5a7b9.0108030852.1234fa4d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87vgk5vxpu.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

cstein at giftcertificates.com (Casey Stein) writes:

> Why is it converting my 66.6 to 66.599999999999994?

Because 66.6 is a binary floating point number, which must be
represented in as powers of two by the computer.  Specifically (in
this case) 4686558362232422 * (2**-46).  

Though this probably doesn't make much sense to you, it makes a great
deal of sense to the computer, which has to think of everything as
some power of 2.  You think of 12 as 10+2 (1*(10**1)+2*(10**0)), but
your computer thinks of it as 8+4 (1*(2**3)+1*(2**2)).

There are other, more acuarate, ways to do this (such as representing
66.6 as 333/5), but they are all _much_ slower than using floats, so
Python currently uses floats (There are people who would like to
change that.)

See 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.098.htp
for more information.

- -- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
"The world would be a better place if Larry Wall had been born in Iceland, 
 or any other country where the native language actually has syntax." 
                -- Peter da Silva (in alt.sysadmin.recovery) 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt

iEYEARECAAYFAjtq5I0ACgkQjVztv3T8pztPPQCfR3dYm5BOihmM2VO5aym+taqa
0o4An06y1u06No7iV7t5vALl1zGTnYmf
=uys4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From barry at zope.com  Fri Aug  3 23:48:30 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:30 -0400
Subject: Compatibility of smtplib with some SMTP server
References: <002201c11c82$1e1c4560$1e9b849e@iceman>
Message-ID: <15211.28814.18971.765459@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "DL" == Dirksen Lau <dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk> writes:

    DL> I'm using my campus smtp server to test python's send mail
    DL> script. It works if the mails are addressed to campus
    DL> accounts, but strangely fails if addressed to outside
    DL> networks, such as xx at yahoo.com, The mails just vanish! Using
    DL> outlook express, I can send mails to xx at yahoo.com throught the
    DL> campus smtp server. On the other hand, the script works again
    DL> with xx at yahoo.com if I change to another smtp server. I'm
    DL> wondering smtplib might have some compatibility issues with
    DL> smtp server? Am I correct? If so, what can I do about it? I'm
    DL> running python 1.5.2 win32 bineray version.

In general, smtplib.py should be compatible with most smtpd's.  I've
no doubt that the library has been updated since 1.5.2, so you may
want to upgrade your Python, but the module certainly gets a wide and
serious workout with Mailman.

Note that many/most of the large ISP's smtpd's like aol.com and
possibly yahoo.com have all kinds of spam defenses that might be
getting in your way.  E.g. AOL apparently has an unpublished maximum
limit on the number of recipients allowed, rumored to be 17, above
which it will simply eat the message, not delivering it and not
returning an SMTP error code.  It's possible Yahoo's got something
similar going on.

there's-no-art-blacker-than-email-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From tjreedy at home.com  Sat Aug 18 13:09:37 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:09:37 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <b0509bcd.0108180650.d23decb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ljxf7.115389$EP6.30561619@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

I am in general opposed to breaking code by deleting features in use,
but I also don't like core dumps or (in Windows) blue-screen-forced
reboots.  If the necessary restrictions on __class__ arising from the
redesign of types and classes bind one too tightly, there will still
be, I believe, the option of giving a class an (assignable)
__varclass__ slot (which will effectively replace __class__) accessed
thru __getattr__.   As I pointed out nearly 5 years ago in
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=57ff5e%24cs2%40news.udel.edu

(Note: when you do a search thru google, there will be a
representation of the search parameters between '/' and 'selm' that
can be tossed to access articly directly)

Python is increadibly flexible: you can even, for instance, have
instances inheriting from each other.  Restriction on __class__
reassignment will not take this away.

Terry J. Reedy






From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Fri Aug 17 09:09:19 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:09:19 +0300
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D177E.EFB863FC@iit.demokritos.gr>

Alan Green wrote:
> 
> c. Python programmers are the kind of people that don't use IDEs.
> 

Halo Alan,

I don't think the mentality of the group (python programmers) has anything to
do with the fact of using or not an IDE. The only reason, at least for me, to
use an IDE is the OS itself. If you are using DOS (no multitasking no
multi-user, no multiple screens windows etc.) you find valuable to be able to
initiate a compilation or read documentation or edit your program with some
magic keystroke. On UNIX however you can have have different consoles,
windows, debugger sessions, or even machines. You don't need to constantly
entering and leaving programs in order to work.

	.Bill


From tyler at tylereaves.com  Thu Aug 23 00:40:15 2001
From: tyler at tylereaves.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:40:15 GMT
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>
Message-ID: <PO%g7.4359$XY4.423367@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Deep0258 wrote:

> I am just wondering, since I am now joining python and it's greatness, why
> don't the developers of Python make Python just as fast(if not faster)
> than the older, more low-level lanquage. Yes, there are advantages using
> the interpreter style programs, but isn't there a way to incorporate the
> speed of compiled programs with the debugging and clearness of Interpreter
> to make Python a much faster lanquage. There might be a way, but I'm
> pretty new so I don't know. Any answers, thank you for listening?
> 

Becasue such optimization would involve Voodoo magic?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 08:51:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:51:01 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996682083.19421.python-list@python.org> <9kb8mq02bd2@enews1.newsguy.com> <Xns90F19B5D37704michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9kbpjj0kb@enews1.newsguy.com> <Xns90F26B7747E94michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <9ke6n409mj@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns90F26B7747E94michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
    ...
> > I suspect we may be talking at cross-purposes -- I don't request
> > a language that will in fact absolutely CHECK assertions containing
> > universal or existential quantifiers, nor one that will always be
> > able to take advantage of them to further optimization or other
> > type-inference goals: just one that will let me *express* such
> > assertions simply, which, per se, isn't all that hard.
>
> Um.  But I don't see the point.  If the compilers going to ignore
> everything you write, then why not just put your assertions into comments?
> It's what we all have to do already!

When expressing design intentions in a formal language, I get
a *CHANCE* that they will be checked, at least partially, or
used for optimization purposes and other inferences.  It's the
same difference there is between

    # here x will always be greater than y

and

    assert x>y

the latter is a formal way to express the former, which makes it:
    -- totally unambiguous (comments are in natural language,
        thus ambiguous more often than not)
    -- potentially checkable -- some compiler might turn this into
            if not (x>y): raise AssertionError
        at least with the right flags
    -- potentially usable for inferences -- again with the right
        flags a compiler MIGHT be able to use this alleged fact
        to get higher-performing code (e.g. eliminate a following
        "if x<y" block)

The first point always holds and it's a key one.  Second and third
are just possibilities (with current Python technology, for assert,
the second does hold, the third one doesn't), but the point is:
once the construct is in the language, and therefore in those
application programs that might live for the next 20 or 40 years,
compiler technology may improve and actually take advantage of
what today are just 'potentials', aka possibilities.

So I want to be able to write, say (I'm not hung on syntax):

def sort(sequence, predicate):
    forany x: not predicate(x,x)
    forany x,y: truth(predicate(x,y)) != truth(predicate(y,x))

or whatever -- whether a current compiler is able to insert SOME
partial checks (compile- or run-time), or take some inferences from
these formal assertions, is of SECONDARY importance.  They still
stand as formal-language, potentially-(partially)-checkable,
potentially-usable-for-optimization, unambiguous expressions
of my design intent, so their existence enhances the value of
the program containing them.  And if they didn't add substantial
complication, they'd be worth having in the language.


> I always thought that compiler register allocation made the register
> keywork pointless.  Surely using this keyword is just noise now.

It doesn't tell the reader of the program much that is useful, no.

> Seems to me that there'd only be any point in putting such hints into your
> program if there was a chance that they'd have some concrete effect.
> Otherwise you might as well just write good comments, surely?

See it the other way 'round: you might as well write things out
in formalized language -- they'll be at least as good as the best
comments you could possibly write (no ambiguity risk), PLUS,
if an application lives for 40 years who can rule out a future
compiler may be able to make use of them?


> Interesting idea.  So, our "high level abstract assertions" can be used in
> several ways:
> 1.  To supplement comments
> 2.  As a pious hope that the complier will check and validate them (fat
> chance!)

I think you mean 'fat chance' _at compile-time_.  Well, maybe.

> 3.  As run time debug consistency checks
> 4.  To generate automated thorough tests
> 5.  As a stepping stone to the future
>
> Hmm.  Well, for 1 I think we should write comments,

I think otherwise, because natural language is inherently ambiguous.

> > greater than either of their neighbors" -- now *THAT* is
> > what I'd call "typing".
>
> But what do you gain by writing all this in a formal language that's going
> to be quietly ignored by all your tools?  Why not just write good
comments?

Because comments are in natural language and natural language
is inherently ambiguous.  Sorry for repeating this answer, but
then you keep repeating the question:-).

> Oh, that's unfair!  After all, there is always a trade-off in type
checking
> between the expressive power of the language being checked and how much
> checking is actually performed.

I think the sweet spot of the tradeoff (for all purposes except
perhaps code speed, and Self, stalin &c make that disputable)
is a VERY expressive language -- one which can express a lot,
including stuff for which the checking is not normally performed.

The only trade-off that's embarassing is the one that comes if
one takes for granted that the compiler MUST make use NOW of
EVERYTHING it lets you express -- then, it had better be darn
selective on what it lets you express.  But the 'taking for
granted' is IMHO totally unwarranted.


Alex





From rob at jam.rr.com  Sat Aug 25 15:47:04 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:47:04 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
References: <mailman.998762078.15143.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B880077.B2ABBB5A@jam.rr.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> On 25 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> > Any thoughts on how these compare?  Which would you use to write
> > a simple gui application?  How about a fancy application?
> >
> > I've been playing with Tkinter for a few hours and have some sense
> > of its capabilities.  I've never programmed Qt or PyQt at all and
> > have no idea what they're like from a programming perspective, but
> > am pretty impressed with KDE applications I've used.
> >
> > Thanks for any opinions/comparisons.
> 
> Your list is missing PyGTK, based on GTK+.
> 
Also of some interest is wxPython (http://www.wxpython.org/). And
Jython/Swing is interesting to say the least, but for people who aren't
coming from a Java background it may not be the ideal first approach to
play with.

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From bvdpoel at uniserve.com  Thu Aug 23 19:48:23 2001
From: bvdpoel at uniserve.com (bvdpoel at uniserve.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:48:23 -0700
Subject: optional args for getopt()
References: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com> <0108231343520N.28818@ike>
Message-ID: <3B859647.B62A861B@uniserve.com>

Richard Jones wrote:
> 
> On Thursday 23 August 2001 12:59, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> > Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I can
> > set an option string to something like:
> 
> Sorry, to answer this question directly - I don't believe it's possible in
> the current getopt code. Your best bet would possibly be to locally change
> getopt to do qhat you need (and at the same time, generate a patch that can
> be submitted to python.sf.net).
> 
>    Richard

Thanks. I really was hoping NOT to have to reinvent the wheel. For now
I'll just leave well enough alone and do my own parsing.... but if any
maintainers are reading this, it would be nice to have GNU compatibility
in this.

-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at uniserve.com
WWW:   http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 16 02:17:34 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 23:17:34 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <3B7B53C5.87ADCF16@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7xu1z8edfl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> To that end, check out http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#zen and
> if you don't feel an inner sense of agreement with most of that
> list, maybe Python isn't for you.  If you do, give it a chance
> and you may come to see the benefits of Python the way we do, and
> overlook its "curiosities" (which as Dave said, really just don't
> get in the way in day-to-day programming).

Thanks.  I like Python.  It's just not turning out to be the be-all
and end-all.  That's not a reasonable thing to expect though.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 21:17:12 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:17:12 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.997145170.17971.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yiHb7.1401$C41.29006@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

Just another random thought on the name for the first argument. How about
Michael?

spelled-"mycl"-of-course-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


<James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997145170.17971.python-list at python.org...
>
>
> I've been playing around with the new type/class stuff and (so far) think
> it is great!  In particular the classmethod and staticmethod mechanisms
> seem to work very nicely.  It looks to me like I can use the classmethod
> mechanism to do all the same kinds of things that I used to do with
> metaclass methods in Smalltalk!  :-)
>
> (Subclassing of builtin types seems to work nicely, too!)
>
> One question: since class methods have a class object as the designated
> first argument, should there be a convention for naming this argument
> (similar to using "self" as the convention for standard instance methods)
> to enhance readability?  Perhaps "myclass" or "selfclass" or something
> similar?  Any thoughts?
>
> Great job!!!
>
> Jim
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> Guido wrote:
> When I released Python 2.2a1, the type/class unification feature was
> announced as TENTATIVE.  It's been a while now (feels like a year,
> although I realize it's only been 10 days :), and I would like to see
> some feedback on this.
>
> If there's anyone who believes the type/class unification should not
> become a feature in Python 2.2, please speak up now or forever hold
> your peace...  (But I'd rather you speak up!)
>
> Note that if you have concerns about backwards incompatibilities, the
> best thing you can do is point them out ASAP.  I want to ensure that
> 2.2 (final) is as compatible with 2.1 as possible, while still
> providing the new exciting features that type/class unification makes
> possible.
>
> I realize the PEPs aren't done yet, but I believe that the separate
> introduction I wrote goes a long way towards explaining type/class
> unification.  Read it here:
>
>   http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
>
> Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.  Just DON'T CHANGE THE THREAD
> TOPIC.  I don't have time to read the entire newsgroup (I tried this
> week, and I didn't get to anything else :).
>
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
>




From piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl  Wed Aug 29 06:45:31 2001
From: piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:45:31 +0200
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999028783.18165.python-list@python.org> <x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <J4Vi7.172382$rV6.8623803@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3b8c306d.718575126@wa.news.verio.net> <jUZi7.176950$rV6.8807005@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9mie8k$fma$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>

In article <jUZi7.176950$rV6.8807005 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "Steve
Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

......

Oops!

> [Piotr: if you're reading this, perhaps you will appreciate how an
> apprently innocent question can meander off into the undergrowth and
> live for days. Good question!]

Yes. I was reading all the posts. Thank you all very much for such an in
depth explanation of floating numbers :-) but I think I will stay with the
%.2f notation and hope that python math implementation is sufficient for
my needs ;-)

Regards
Piotr Legiecki


From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug 22 02:20:59 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:20:59 GMT
Subject: Python in Vim
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211123150.2888-200000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o6jj9.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:37:50 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth <adam at home.com> wrote:
>   This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
>   while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>   Send mail to mime at docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.
> 
> --239146339-156700546-998411271=:2888
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
> Content-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211130501.2902 at cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
> 
> 
> Hi python rabbits -
> 	I have made an addition to python.vim that I sent (or at least I
> think I sent) to this list a couple of days ago.  It can add a
> 'IM-Python' menu to Gvim that holds the name of all the classes in the
> file.  Clicking on one of those hops to the line number of that
> function.  You can get the list by editing a Python file, then doing:
> 
> 	:call MakeMenuStructure()
> 
> ---then it will go on forever, just type ^C and <Enter> (it reports
> bugs, but it will work nonetheless) and you have the menu.  Since it
> still sort of has bugs, I haven't put it on the WWW yet.  I would
> appreciate it a lot of someone could figure out the bug.  I have also
> added code to do the defs, but it won't work until the bug is fixed,
> sorry.

That could be very useful, would it be easy to make it work in console
vim?
> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Thu Aug 30 08:39:09 2001
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:39:09 +0200
Subject: two little syntax questions
Message-ID: <MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684@news.easynews.net>

Hi,

Two little syntax questions:
1.-----------------------------
I have a huge dict of 3-tuples. I need the min and max value
of all tuple[0] entries.

I would like to use reduce. Something like:

nodes[1]=(3,2,5)
nodes[2]=(-1,2,9)
nodes[3]=(0,1,6)
nodes[4]=(2,9,1)

minx = reduce(lambda a,b:min(a,b),nodes???and now what)

how do I explain: take first entry in tuple for all keyvalues
2.------------------------------

I have to print the remaining entries of a list
(first entries are printed in groups of 8 per line)

lines = len(list)/8
rest = len(list)%8
print rest * "i," % (list[lines*8:])

doesn't work. Okay I know print is expecting a tuple and
list[lines*8:] is not. So how can I transform this into
a tuple.

Thanks a lot
Marcus









From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  9 08:29:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:29:06 -0400
Subject: sorting strings by size
References: <3B7266C9.90706@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Oivc7.57729$WD1.3573804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B7266C9.90706 at herts.ac.uk...
> Can anyone thing of a more eligant way of doing this? I am trying to
> extract the keys of my dict and sort them according to size, but this
> currently seems kinda crude
>
> temp = [(len(x), x) for x in motifs.keys()]
> temp.sort()
> temp.reverse()
> motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]
>
Well you could save yourself one of those operations:

temp = [(-len(x), x) for x in motifs.keys()]
temp.sort()
motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]

regards
 SteVe
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 28 07:25:24 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 04:25:24 -0700
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <mailman.998996382.26483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x7kvo77ff.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes:
> In the Linux kernel mailing list they have a patch going around that can add
> to entropy in /dev/random from your network traffic. Grab the patch, stream
> MP3s between machines, and have fun :)

I wish they'd use the cpu performance counters on cpu's that have them
(which is most these days).  I don't think they do that now.  Anyway,
this is off-topic.


From volucris at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 19:09:10 2001
From: volucris at hotmail.com (Volucris)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:09:10 -0500
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <3b7b007b$0$324$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>

>>> id('+=')
21928320
>>> id('+=')
21933232
>>> a = '+='
>>> id(a)
21933216
>>> b = '+='
>>> id(b)
21926144
>>> c = a
>>> id(a)
21933216
>>> id(c)
21933216
>>> a is c
1
>>> a is b
0

--

Volucris (a) hotmail.com
"Eu n?o falo uma ?nica palavra do portugu?s."

"Vassilis Virvilis" <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> wrote in message
news:3B7AF5AA.977B331C at iit.demokritos.gr...
> I am using python 2.1 in Redhat Linux.
> Do you find anything irrational to the following session?
> >>> a='+='
> >>> a is a
> 1
> >>> a is '+='
> 0
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>> a = 'dsd'
> >>> a is 'dsd'
> 1
> >>> '+=' is '+='
> 1
> >>>
>
> I apologize if this has been brought to the attention of this group
before.
> Maybe I did misunderstand the use of the 'is' operator, but then how it is
> supposed to work?
>
> .Bill




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug  8 13:14:54 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:14:54 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>; from adam@home.com on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:53:16PM +0000
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <20010808131454.A1562@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 02:53:16PM +0000, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> Hi pythoners,
> 	You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was modal.
> Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get syntax
> highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What more
> could you want?  (Note:  I love Vim, please don't attack me for slightly
> insulting Emacs, I do know that Emacs has a HUGE amount of useful
> features)

Looks like flame bait, but I've got 10 minutes to kill...

People choose editor first, then work their way to programming language.
So, python support in Vim/Emacs wouldn't influence them.  Personally,
auto-indenting is the only thing I use regularly.  Everything else gives
me headache.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 01:59:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:59:11 -0400
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
In-Reply-To: <3b88ccb5.496439822@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEDGLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bengt Richter]
> ...
> It wouldn't be that hard to gin up a little stand-alone .exe to do
> what md5sum.py does.

Thinking-cap time:  the problem doesn't come up at all unless they're having
trouble downloading .exe files.




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 10 01:02:04 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:02:04 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
In-Reply-To: <87zo98wo0j.fsf@lucifer.home.spb>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108100851540.3854-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 10 Aug 2001, Eugene Morozov wrote:

>I wouldn't say that they're excellent. They're usually very
>slow (OpenOffice on K6-450 is slower than MS Word under
>VMWare on Pentium 166!), more buggy than Word and doesn't
>handle complex Word documents correctly. That's make them an
>unusable alternative -- I have to use .doc format for my
>work, even though I prefer docbook. But this is already
>offtopic.

BTW, I used Python to produce VB scripts.
Oh... Word is very unfriendly when it comes to scripting.
I was told that I can open doc as a COM object and so on,
but I needed to do it quickly, so I used usual macros...
So, I understand why you want to script Word in Python.

And you can use docbook to generate RTF, readable by MS Word.

>> It IS more of a shame that there's no standard way to script
>> programs -- no standardized Component Object Model, but
>> rather "fragments of componentization" scattered here and
>> there (bonobo, XPCOM, ...?).  Under Win32, if you can talk
>> COM well, there are few relevant limits to what you can
>> script/automate/control/etc.  No such thing under Unix:-(.
>
>This is exactly what I wanted to say, it's just my bad
>English didn't allow me to say this so clearly.

I do not follow. UNIX has different approach to scripting: small efficient
tools, glued together by scripts. There is nothing which could be scripted
inside 'cat' or 'date', for example, but they could be used for scripting.

I heard similar opinions about UNIX/GNU Linux, but probably my projects do
not require COM's and I do not understand why developers are so happy
about COM.

As for word processing, LaTeX is script itself.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 10, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "This mind intentionally left blank." _/




From howard at eegsoftware.com  Thu Aug 23 14:21:10 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:21:10 GMT
Subject: Radiobutton HELP!!
References: <3B85135A.E5EE3002@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B854995.A63EFA29@eegsoftware.com>


Rbtns wrote:

> Hi, I'm trying to use Radiobuttons with Tkinter. I've used them before,
> but never two lists of them at one time.  The problem I am having is
> that everytime I make a selection in one radiobutton list, the program
> automatically makes that same selection for the other list. I have
> included sample code to illustrate:
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> root = Tk()
> root.title('Radio Button Test')
>
> sel1 = -1
> sel2 = -1
>
> menubar = Menu(root)
> sel1menu = Menu(menubar, tearoff=0)
> sel2menu = Menu(menubar, tearoff=0)
>
> for a in range(3):
>
> sel1menu.add_radiobutton(label='Select'+str(a),variable=sel1,value=a)
> for a in range(5):
>
> sel2menu.add_radiobutton(label='Select'+str(a),variable=sel2,value=a)
>
> menubar.add_cascade(label='Select1',menu=sel1menu)
> menubar.add_cascade(label='Select2',menu=sel2menu)
>
> root.config(menu=menubar)
>
> root.mainloop()
>
> If anyone knows how to do this, please don't hesistate to respond. Thank
> you very much.

The problem is that Tkinter does not use Python variables directly.  You
have to use the Tkinter variable class and use those:

sel1 = IntVar()
sel1.set(-1)
sel2 = IntVar()
sel2.set(-1)




From noel.rappin at openwave.com  Fri Aug 17 22:18:50 2001
From: noel.rappin at openwave.com (Noel Rappin)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:18:50 -0400
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010817221649.00b16d58@pop.openwave.com>

Disclaimer: I'm not a true XP expert, but I believe in the value of test 
first design....

>         I have read about, and downloaded, some of the Python unit
>testing frameworks available, but I have never yet been able to
>actually use any one of them to implement actual _tests_. I wish to
>use unit tests(at least, the kind of unit tests used in Extreme
>Programming(I think))because one of the claims of aficionados of
>this approach is that it helps them get over the problem of how to
>make programs that can't be kept in mind as a whole. This amazing
>feat is done, say the aficionados, by writing the unit tests out before
>the code.  I have both great hope and significant doubts about this
>method.

To be more specific, when doing test-first design in the XP way, you don't 
write _all_ the tests before you code.  You write one test, code the 
simplest thing that could possibly work, then write another test.  You 
continue to go back and forth between tests and code, refactoring the code 
mercilessly to keep it simple as you add new tests.  By following this 
method, your code is always a) working, b) as simple as possible.  When 
defects are found, write a test that exposes the defect and fix the code -- 
you'll have a quick guarantee that you haven't broken any other test.

Now, the art of this is, of course, in the exact definitions of "simple", 
"working", and "refactoring", and "test everything".  The goal here is not 
complete testing in the formal sense, but enough testing to give you 
confidence that the code works.  Still, my experience is that you do tend 
to end up with clear, simple, and elegant code using this method.

>         I hope, as I said above, that this method will allow me to finish
>various projects I have started and had to abandon because I got
>stuck in binds I could not specifically understand or find out how to
>resolve.  My doubts lie with the thought that it is very difficult to
>figure out what the requirements of a program will be before you
>write the program, and will this method make programming into a
>tiresome, irritating task, even if I can write these bigger programs?

Happily, using XP and test-first, you don't need to know what the 
requirements will be before you write it.  In fact, the XP processes are 
based on the assumption that you won't know what all the requirements are 
before you start, or that they will change during coding.  The goals of 
test-first are to keep the code in a state where it is easily modified to 
accommodate change and to give you the test suite so that you can make 
changes confident that you haven't broken anything without realizing it.

My experience is that, far from making programing tiresome and irritating, 
test-first literally rekindled my enjoyment of programming, because of the 
constant feedback.  Especially at the beginning of a project, it's nice to 
have feedback that you are moving forward and doing things well, even 
before there is much in the way of visible results.  I've found that 
programming test-first has reduced long debug sessions to about nil, and 
that writing tests is far less tiresome than long debug sessions.

>         My question to you all is this:  Do you have any suggestions on
>how to deal with learning to use unit testing in this way, or examples
>of setting up games with this kind of unit testing, or GUI programs?
>Really, any thoughts or comments you might have about this form of
>unit testing, or how to learn to use it, would be very appreciated.


Other people have posted examples.  You can also try www.xprogramming.com 
and www.objectmentor.com for some more examples of test-first (not in 
Python, unfortunately).  There's a Yahoo Group for XP that will answer your 
questions as well.

Hope this helps,

Noel

-------------
Noel Rappin, Principal Software Engineer, Internal Development
Openwave <Noel.Rappin at openwave.com>

The contents of this email message do not necessarily reflect the opinions 
or programming practices of Openwave Systems.






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 10:33:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:33:57 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net> <vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp@4ax.com> <9kj1f602gku@enews4.newsguy.com> <6dtqmtg3klt5cosohslg742u1o746n1qqb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9km9us01149@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6dtqmtg3klt5cosohslg742u1o746n1qqb at 4ax.com...
>
> >I haven't seen many such requests.  Anyway, it's clearly trivial
> >to subclass UserList, overriding append and __setitem__ to make
> >sure the items being added satisfy some per-item test (be it
> >a type-test or something more clever) -- is that what you mean?
>
> Pretty much, yep.
>
> BTW, the "requests" for uniform containers I was referring to weren't
> necessarily for Python. :)

In other languages, the "uniform containers" may be FAR more
necessary than they are in Python.  For example, in Java you
currently get the choice -- either a Vector with all of its niceties
BUT strictly Object as contents, OR an array with SOME level of
compile-time homogeneity (unfortunately bogus because of
covariance, but that's another issue) but very low-level operation.
THERE a Generic-Java able (among other things) to supply a
homogeneous "no casts needed on retrieval" equivalent of
Vector has been a sore need for many years.

But the need doesn't generalize to Python:-).


Alex





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 28 01:23:37 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 22:23:37 -0700
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu> <7xofp0yj7h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B8B1CC5.80908@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <7xsnecsqp2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Will Ware <wware at alum.mit.edu> writes:
> That would be better. But whenever I test things like this, I get
> compulsive and run it so many times that I exhaust the entropy pool,
> and then my read() of /dev/random just sits there. I'd be curious to
> know if you have any clever thoughts on replenishing the entropy
> pool quicker without losing much security.

Use /dev/urandom rather than /dev/random.  There should be enough
physical entropy in the system to start with that nobody will
reconstruct it.  After that, the PRNG stream coming from /dev/urandom
is cryptographically strong, at least strong enough that it won't be
the weak link in a password-based system.


From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Tue Aug 21 19:07:59 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:07:59 +1000
Subject: Python users
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010821230759Z-52111@emi1.EMI>

Hi all,

I'm really new to python language, where is the best place to learn ?? 
 and where can I find the latest of Pythonwin for python2.1 ??

Any help really appreciated,
Kim,





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 04:16:40 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:16:40 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kivln02f1h@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Andy Freeman" <anamax at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059 at posting.google.com...
> Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
> > You didn't respond to my comments on potential for performance gains.
Can I
> > assume that I scored a point?  ;-)
>
> Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
> improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
> consideration.

"decrease run-time at ANY cost" is never really a target: you have to
insert constraints about meeting functional specs, otherwise program
    pass
is a huge performance increase (at the cost of not doing anything,
sure, but, if one DOES mean ANY cost...).

Also, it's not normally an issue of "exhausting" potential infrastructure
(hardware) improvements, but rather one of ROI (Return On Investment)
for the various kinds of improvements.  E.g., given a problem of the
embarassingly parallel kind, running it on a cluster of a thousand PC's
would speed it up by hundreds of times -- at least as much as recoding
it from Python into C or whatever and running it on a single PC.  But what
is the cost of the infrastructure improvement versus that of the rewrite?

A couple million dollars per installation vs a lump sump of (say) roughly
$10 per debugged line of C code.  For many programs, recoding will
have a superior ROI even if they're intended to run at a single site --
and if you consider a program that is intended to be installed in many
thousands of sites, recoding's going to come on top most often, as the
most cost-effective way to achieve performance improvements.


> I figure that there are about five applications in the world that qualify,

At this point I have to suspect we're not talking about the same thing.

Modeling solids and surfaces for 3D mechanical CAD surely does 'qualify'
as insatiably hungry for any kind of performance improvement -- the
more the merrier, of course: we're continuously developing algorithmic
improvements, the programs typically run on reasonably powerful boxes,
AND the performance bottlenecks need to be carefully coded to afford
the highest possible performance (including language choice).

> and they're written in assembler.

That would be the wrong tack to take in this case: a top-notch compiler
for a language such as C or C++ can optimize better, for programs of
a few tens of thousands of lines -- it can target the latest and greatest
CPU at any time (where assembler would need recoding and slow time
to market considerably) -- and so offers better ROI.

> (The other candidates have migrated to hardware.)

There are aspects of 3D programs that "have migrated to hardware",
but that's basically the rendering part; the modeling hasn't, and I
confidently predict that it won't.

> They, and their techniques, are less relevant to most
> of us than F1 racecars.

FIAT is selling a middle-price car with a gearbox using techniques
that were pioneered a few years ago in F1 racecars.  Shell is selling
(at all of its Italian outlets) a premium brand of petrol developed
together with Ferrari (allegedly maximizing engine performance: I
am not qualified to evaluate this claim).  And of course Ferrari uses
3D CAD programs to design its cars (both the F1 racecars, and those
it sells to the public, typically using technologies pioneered on the
F1 racetracks) -- as, admittedly, does Minardi, even though _their_
F1 cars are typically last while Ferrari's are often first.  In other
words, I think you're somewhat off in implying F1 technology is
not very relevant "to most of us" -- and even more off in stating
the same about programs that do need very high performance.

(Of course, I'm biased, since think3 does sell 3D MCAD programs,
and geographically happens to lie about in the middle of a region
very keen on racing -- Ferrari, Minardi, and Ducati for motorbikes,
all happen to be within 20-30 miles from our main SW development
lab, as do the homes of Pantani, bicycle racing champ, and Tomba,
ski racing champ...:-).

> Type systems have certain benefits.  They also have certain costs.
> For almost all of us, the performance "potential" isn't a benefit.

I believe you're vastly overstating "the case against performance".

Getting better peformance IS a benefit -- possibly a _minor_ one
in many cases, but there's a huge difference between it being a
minor benefit, and it NOT being a benefit at all!

> I suppose someone should have mentioned the costs of inappropriate
> attention to performance.

Of _premature_ attention to performance, typically.

> Chosing a language because you hope that
> its type system will help with performance seems to qualify.

Prototyping in a language whose main attraction is that its
compilers can easily generate well-performing code would
qualify.  Once the prototype is done, however, if performance
problems loom, language choice for the performance hotspots
must be made, so it cannot be premature to make it at this
point.  If the influence of strict typing were as weak as a HOPE
for better performance, you'd have a point -- Java, to get back
to the subject of this thread, proves that you can have reasonably
strict and confining typing and still get pretty bad performance,
just as the stalin compiler for Scheme proves you can get pretty
good performance without static typing.  But, _in practice_, C,
C++, O'Caml and other statically typed languages show good
performance characteristics -- a practising engineer would have
to choose on the basis of actual performance, as well as future
potential if the application can be long-lived.

Many people strongly believe that using a single language for
an application is best -- I guess those same people use a
single Swiss Army knife instead of a normal toolbox for their
mechanical work.  I was in Lugano recently, and had a good
look at the newest Swiss knives -- they're amazingly clever,
with a dozen different screwdrivers and so on.  Unfortunately,
they're unwieldy in the extreme, exactly because they have
to incorporate so many blades & other accessories.  So, I'll
stick with my small toolbox -- separate flat-head screwdrivers
and Phillips-head ones, pincers that don't try to double up
as scissors, and so on.  Sure, it's a (very minor) bother to
have to carry around half a dozen tool and use the right one,
but using a single tool that does everything is a far larger
bother because it's never as good as the specialized tool for
any given single task.

If I wanted a Swiss Army knife language, it would probably
be C++, maybe O'Caml.  I'd rather have my little toolbox,
though, with Python for most things, C++ (or, sigh, C if I
must) for speed, Haskell when a lazy-functional approach
cries out to be used... but *as long as language complexity
didn't become a problem*, I wouldn't object to Python
having a little extra performance potential here and there,
just as I don't object to the little functional traits it has
borrowed from Haskell and other FP tools (even though
lambda IS a minor annoyance:-).


Alex





From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Sun Aug 12 12:34:12 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:34:12 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PyF*ck -- a Brainf*ck compiler in Python
References: <3B75A924.580B498A@enabledventures.com>
Message-ID: <9l6b64$l1l$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Glen Starchman" <glen at enabledventures.com> wrote in message
news:3B75A924.580B498A at enabledventures.com...
>
> Here's an example of what happens when someone has too much time on
> their hands... a Brainf*ck compiler in Python that creates clear and
> concise Python code.
>
> http://hanzomon.enabledtechnology.com/pyfck.html

LOL!

Looking forward to Bryfuck. Winning obfuscated Python competitions
would be a breeze ;)

> Glen Starchman

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Aug 24 13:06:39 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:06:39 -0500
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net> <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu> <9m5nkv$ft15$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3B867780.2070006@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B86899F.4050102@wi.mit.edu>

I stumbled across a more general if ugly solution, you can replace/add 
to a compiled functions ".func_globals" attribute.

def a(b,c,d):
    print b,c,d
    print e # this is a global

# should fail
#exec "a(1,2,3)" in {"a":a}

# put the namespace into the functions globals
namespace = {'e':'yeah baby!'}
a.func_globals.update(namespace)

exec "a(1,2,3)" in {"a":a}

# remove the namespace from the functions globals
for k,v in namespace.items():
    del a.func_globals[k]

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research



From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Aug 27 18:27:36 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:27:36 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998799639.28464.python-list@python.org> <PL1i7.138061$EP6.38219042@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B8990FA.E3CDA41D@home.com> <Esti7.44898$54.2495540@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b8ac928.76109870@news.laplaza.org>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:16:17 -0400, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

:"Don O'Donnell" <donod at home.com> wrote in message
:news:3B8990FA.E3CDA41D at home.com...
:> Terry Reedy wrote:
:> >
:> >   Logical, organized
:> > thinking is foreign to some people.
:> >
:> > Terry J. Reedy
:>
:> True, but such people shouldn't be programming, in any language.
:>
:
:Which unfortunately doesn't stop them, in most cases. CP4E is a misnomer!

... and which unfortunately doesn't stop them from showing up in
classes to try learn to do something their brains don't seem inclined
to accept, as Steve knows (we both do some teaching for the same
outfit).


Mats Wichmann



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug 16 03:16:28 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:16:28 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: PEP 252: __slots__ inappropriate
Message-ID: <200108160716.JAA04540@pandora.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

In the current implementation of PEP 252, to declare an class with
slots, you assign to the __slots__ variable inside the class
definition:

class Foo(object):
  __slots__ = ['bar','baz']

This declares that every instance of Foo will have two instance
attributes, namely bar and baz.

I find that this way of defining class properties is inconsistent with
the rest of the language, in particular with other "magic" class
attributes:

__bases__: Not defined by assigning to __bases__, but by putting
           them after the class name in parentheses
__doc__: Not defined by assigning to __doc__, but by putting a 
         string as the first thing inside Foo
__dict__: Not defined by assigning to __dict__, but filled implicitly
__name__: Given after the class keyword

And so on. So I would like to request that proper syntax is added,
where the slots names are syntactically identifiers instead of being
strings. Perhaps it is possible to combine this with a default value
for the slots: currently, each slot has a default of None.

There is a number of options to improve the syntax for declaring
slots, such as

A. A new keyword

class Foo:
  slot bar
  slot baz = 42

This is similar in declaration to a global directive, except that that
it would be a definition, not a declaration: It would create a member
object.

B. An existing keyword

class Foo:
  def bar
  def baz = 42

C. A new builtin

class Foo:
  bar = slot()
  baz = slot(42)

In this option, the slot object would not know what its name is. So
this would require some magic, either at class definition time, or at
slot access time.

So please consider changing the slot syntax.

Regards,
Martin



From dinu at reportlab.com  Tue Aug 14 14:44:55 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:44:55 GMT
Subject: Progress on missing features?
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de> <kblintkuin7nn2m1pt87hrf8nhti32i87f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b796f6f.5731831@news.t-online.de>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:46:43 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com>
wrote:

>>  - class methods
>
>>The first two could be considered quite important for ma-
>>king the language more complete in terms of object orien-
>>tation.
>
>If you reframe your thinking and do module-level methods instead,
>treating a module as an object, you will have achieved everything
>here that you ever need to achieve with a class method.

That sounds like a lot of people need to spend a lot of 
time to think how to implement something that is more or
less a straightforward concept in other OO languages in
Python.

I don't doubt a second class methods can be faked that 
way in Python, but I doubt this could be advertised as 
the best way to do it, just because it is pretty far away 
from "traditional" OO thinking. It might be the best one
today, but it feels more like a hack than being the proper 
solution, doesn't it?

Maybe I'm too radical, but I only try to argue for making 
something conceptually easy also easy to use rather than 
only by thinking-around-the-corner.
 
Dinu

-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 15 23:56:07 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:56:07 +1000
Subject: Explain modules to me PLEASE
In-Reply-To: <20010815232428.01517.00000560@mb-cb.aol.com>
References: <20010815232428.01517.00000560@mb-cb.aol.com>
Message-ID: <01081613560705.01472@ike>

On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:24, Patio87 wrote:
> Can some one explain to a very new newbie how to use modules?

Have you tried walking through section 6 of the python online tutorial?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html


   Richard



From lele at seldati.it  Thu Aug 30 05:31:43 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:31:43 +0200
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829151706.A27274@pulp> <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com> <mailman.999145906.1986.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m34rqplwqo.fsf@paci.nautilus>

I remember that the same kind of oddity came out from the mxDateTime
module: it was caused by the way the module was (is ?) caching some
internal Python symbol.

PyApache tries to behave as a standalone Python interpreter, clearing
the interpreter state. But some module does not catch the signal, and
it does not re-ask for the object when it needs it.

Having had a little exchange with Guido at the time, I'm afraid
there's little PyApache can do with the matter: as your little test
demonstrate it is due to the way Py_EndInterpreter() does the
"shutdown" process... It is the module itself that should check for
the "new interpreter", and eventually refresh its cache.

Maybe using PyApache "single-interpreter" modality would help a
little, since in that case there will ever be just one long-running
interpreter.

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Hold on, hold on - They put you in a box so you
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| can't get heard - Let your spirit stay unbroken, 
email: lele at seldati.it	| may you not be deterred - P.Gabriel "Wallflower"




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 22:40:20 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 19:40:20 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7xzo90pw17.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:
> Also, you say that xrange still eventually creates all of the numbers in 
> the range, but so does your while loop. Any loop eventually has to create 
> or access every index value that it uses. For a list of 100 numbers, it is 
> generally much faster for Python to create the list than it is for it to 
> create each of the numbers by adding 1 to the preceding value.

Yes, I see in

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-xrange.html

that the xrange object uses a constant amount of storage.  In another
description that I saw somewhere, it sounded as if xrange(n) ended
up allocating the full sequence of size n if you iterated through it.

Xrange is apparently a primitive type, which sounds like a big kludge.
Maybe in Python 2.2 they can make it into an iterator.  That would be
the right way to deal with this problem.


From r.b.rigilink at chello.nl  Sun Aug 12 04:54:56 2001
From: r.b.rigilink at chello.nl (Roeland Rengelink)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:54:56 GMT
Subject: Python Web Site Copier?
References: <mailman.997580418.1385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7646F4.154802F6@chello.nl>

Paul Sidorsky wrote:
> 
> Has anybody written a Python version of a utility like sitecopy?  (For
> synchronizing a web site on a server with a copy maintained on one's hard
> drive.)  From my search, I see that a few months ago somebody was working on a
> Python wrapper for sitecopy, but I would prefer a pure-Python solution for a
> variety of reasons (which I won't go into).
> 
> I am up to the job of writing my own but of course I don't want to if I don't
> have to!
> 
> Thanks in advance.  My apologies if this isn't completely on topic.
> 
> --
> ======================================================================
> Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
> paulsid at home.com                      http://members.home.net/paulsid/

In the Tools/webchecker/ directory of your (well, mine at least) Python
distribution
there is a script called websucker.py which might be what you're looking
for.

Hope this helps,

Roeland


-- 
r.b.rigilink at chello.nl

"Half of what I say is nonsense. Unfortunately I don't know which half"


From sam at ddmweb.com  Wed Aug 29 12:27:28 2001
From: sam at ddmweb.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:27:28 -0700
Subject: Question using CGI in Python 
Message-ID: <01082910313700.01230@frock.ddmweb.com>

Your biggest problem is coding style. To make your life a little easier:

1) Make each script a function in a single script. Call them, for
example, printFirstPage(), printSecondPage(), printThirdPage(). (Those
are actually pretty lousy names. The names should reflect what the
fucntions do, and the page-printing logic should be separated from the
db-accessing logic. But you have to start somewhere.)

2) Break out the bulk of the HTML written by each script into
separate files that you read in. For example, "step_one.htm",
"step_two.htm", and "step_three.htm" (again, pick names that describe
what the pages represent or do). In each file, give the submit button a
different value. The button in step_one.htm might read: <input
type="submit" name="action" value="Go to second step"> and in
step_two.htm <input type="submit" name="action" value="Finish">

3) At the bottom of the single script you made in 1), write:
BASIC_HEADER = 'Content-type: text/html\n'
if __name__ == '__main__':
    import cgi
    form = cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1)
    try:
        main()
    except:
        print BASIC_HEADER
        print cgi.print_exception()

4) Just above that, write:
def main():
    """Quick and dirty, but should work"""
   page = ''
   if form.has_key('action'):
       action = form['action'].value
        if action == 'Go to second step':
            page = printSecondPage()
        elif action == 'Finish':
            page = printThirdPage()
    if not page: #must be starting out
        page = printFirstPage()
    print BASIC_HEADER
    print page

5) Crude example of what step_two.htm should look like. Note that HTML
needs double-quotes around tag values: 
<html><head><title>Step Two</title></head> 
<body><FORM METHOD="POST'"ACTION="myScript.py">
This is some explanantory text representing what the user sees.
Next line is input the user controls:
<input type="text" name="some_user_preference">
%(hiddenFields)s
<input type="submit" name="action" value="Finish">
</form</body></html>

6) Crude example of what printSecondPage() and helper functions
should look like: 
def printSecondPage():
    if firstPageInputIsValid(): # make sure valid var1 in input
        html = open('step_two.htm').read() # see 5)
        hiddenDict = {'var1':form['var1'].value}
        hiddenFields = makeHiddenFields(hiddenDict)
        return html % {'hiddenFields':hiddenFields}
    else: # reprint first page with error message
       errorMessage = '''The value you entered for var1, "%s",
        was not valid. Please try again.''' % form['var1'].value
       return printFirstPage(errorMessage=errorMessage)

def firstPageInputIsValid():
    if form['var1'].value == 'swordfish': 
        # or looks like a valid email address, or matches the password
        # in the database, or whatever 
        return 1     
    return 0

def makeHiddenFields(hiddenDict):
    """Python 1.5.2 compatible version""""
    hiddenTag = "<input type="hidden" name="%s" value="%s">
    localList = []
    for pair in hiddenDict.items():
        oneField = hiddenTag % pair
        localList.append(oneField)
    import string
    hiddenFields = string.join(localList)
    return hiddenFields

7) More generally:
You should limit non-idented statements to import statements; the
module docstring; definitions of constants, classes, and functions;
and the little blurb in 3) which goes at the bottom of the script.

Do not print raw strings. Assign the strings to variables and print
the variables. Specifically, your HTTP header(s) should be one
variable, your entire HTML page a second, and your traceback a third
(printed only if there is an error). Those three print statements should
suffice for systems thousands of lines long.

If you have a function that is much longer than the ones I've written,
ask your self what it does and write down the answer. Circle every verb
in the answer and move corresponding parts of your original function
into other functions which you call from the first function.

HTH,
s



From martin at strakt.com  Thu Aug  2 03:34:17 2001
From: martin at strakt.com (Martin Sjögren)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:34:17 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>
References: <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>
Message-ID: <20010802093417.A20263@strakt.com>

On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:25:29PM +0200, Christian Tanzer wrote:
> "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote:
> > What's wrong with 'klass'?  Other than that it looks either
> > like a typo or like German.  Several of the standard libraries
> > use 'klass' when refering to a class and I've seen code outside
> > the std. library using 'klass' as well.  Whereas 'cls' is less
> > frequently used in the std. library to hold a class, but I've
> > not seen external uses of that name for that purpose elsewhere.
> 
> `klass` is broken German <wink>. Might be correct Dutch, though. To me
> it seems wrong to use a non-english token in a programming languages
> using English for all other names.

It's correct Swedish =) What's wrong with using Swedish variable names? Oh
wait, I forgot, I don't do that myself!

Martin

-- 
Martin Sj?gren
  martin at strakt.com              ICQ : 41245059
  Phone: +46 (0)31 405242        Cell: +46 (0)739 169191
  GPG key: http://www.strakt.com/~martin/gpg.html



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Mon Aug 20 20:19:56 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:19:56 -0800
Subject: xmlrpclib
Message-ID: <3B81A92C.3B473635@ActiveState.com>

Should xmlrpclib's exceptions inherit from Exception?
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Aug  8 15:52:36 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:52:36 GMT
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1> <87vgjymp5r.fsf@xeno.localhost> <3b7193b8.137917594@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <8Mgc7.101575$Cy.14848795@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

<gyromagnetic at excite.com> wrote in message
news:3b7193b8.137917594 at 127.0.0.1...
> Thank you all for the suggestions.
>
> I was aware of the list comprehesions solution. In fact, I almost put
> that in my note as one way I knew of to solve the problem. That type
> of solution would certainly suffice for the example I gave. I guess I
> was looking for some more general information about the capabilities
> of map.
>
> The solution using the lambda form that Just and Steve suggested was,
> I guess, what I was looking for. However, I thought there might be
> some special symbol prepended to the method that would indicate that
> the method was to be applied to each of the items in the list;  I
> chose the (apparently confusing) symbol '?'.
>
> -Brad




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 08:46:08 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 05:46:08 -0700
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <mailman.997868123.21492.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpu9xqynj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> WRT Python, the decision to do flooring integer division was very
> deliberate, and not something Guido (or I -- since I pushed him this way,
> it's my fault <wink>) has ever had cause to regret.  We simply regret that
> division returns an integer at all(!).

I thought of doing it that way in gawk (I wrote the original gawk
interpreter) but wimped out and decided it was best to have two
separate operators (that never got implemented).  If it's working
out in python that's great.

I think C99 made a mistake in specifying it one way or the other.  C
doesn't have the same goals as python.  Languages like python should
specify these things precisely.  Languages like C should leave more
things up to the hardware.

I don't know of any computers whose native division instructions do
flooring integer division like python does.  

I also notice that math.fmod (-3, 2) = -1.0, so now there's this weird
inconsistency between integer % and math.fmod.  I don't know offhand
what IEEE 796 says to do with fmod.

Finally I see that they added a // operation (floor division) to
Python 2.2 and it looks like there's more changes like that in the pipeline.


From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug 15 13:46:32 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:46:32 GMT
Subject: need definitive answer: capture a keypress
References: <90qkntktle172v8vdl6jgi9eh646of3n8f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nld4f.n3k.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:16:11 -0400, robin at brainexeculink.com <robin at brainexeculink.com> wrote:
> This question comes up so often, it's ridiculous. I've read all the
> Deja threads to no avail.
> 
> How can one capture a keypress at the console, in a cross-platform
> manner?
> 
> In Win32, I simply use getch() and kbhit() from msvcrt. Works great.
> 
> On Linux, I can use curses and getch(). But there appears to be no way
> of checking for a hit, equivalent to kbhit().
> 
> What is worse, curses appears to interact badly with the standard
> print statement, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to get
> sequential text formatted in a nice simple "print" way, using curses.
> 
> There's more: curses leaves my terminal in an unusable state, even
> after Python exits. I find this module unusable.

Did you use curses.wrapper() ? It should set your term to normal state.

> 
> Surely there is an extension that provides can capture a keypress,
> without getting into the wild world of curses?

Yes, this is in the FAQ on python.org. It's a bit messy, it uses termios
and it's different from 2.0 and 2.1:

        self.fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
        self.new_term = termios.tcgetattr(self.fd)
        self.old_term = termios.tcgetattr(self.fd)
        # set up curses-like terminal state (no echo, read one char at a time)
        if sys.version_info[0] == 2 and sys.version_info[1] == 0:
            self.new_term[3] = (self.new_term[3] & ~TERMIOS.ICANON & 
                ~TERMIOS.ECHO)
        else:
            self.new_term[3] = (self.new_term[3] & ~termios.ICANON &
                ~termios.ECHO)


    def set_normal_term(self):
        """Set 'normal' terminal settings"""
        if sys.version_info[0] == 2 and sys.version_info[1] == 0:
            termios.tcsetattr(self.fd, TERMIOS.TCSAFLUSH, self.old_term)
        else:
            termios.tcsetattr(self.fd, termios.TCSAFLUSH, self.old_term)

    def set_curses_term(self):
        """Set 'normal' terminal settings"""
        if sys.version_info[0] == 2 and sys.version_info[1] == 0:
            termios.tcsetattr(self.fd, TERMIOS.TCSAFLUSH, self.new_term)
        else:
            termios.tcsetattr(self.fd, termios.TCSAFLUSH, self.new_term)

 - Andrei


> 
> -----
> robin
> robin at brainexeculink.com
> (remove "brain" to reply) 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
 it at: cy.silmarill.org


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 21 23:34:59 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:34:59 +0200
Subject: Python-Debug.zip
References: <slrn9o5dem.no.m-turk@dhcp101054.res-hall.nwu.edu>
Message-ID: <399vl9.6b1.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On 21 Aug 2001 19:23:02 GMT, Matthew Turk <m-turk at nwu.edu> wrote:
>I know this is a terribly stupid question, but I don't see a directory
>structure in the ZIP file, so I wanted to take care that all of the
>contents of the Python-2.1-Debug.zip go in the right place.  Where
>should I put the items?
>
>(This is a sort-of-followup to my previous question - I'm now
>compiling with setup.py and --debug, and it needs python21_d.dll,
>which is in this package.)

Please note that this download is of no use if you plan to debug with Cygwin's
gdb: it doesn't understand the debugging symbols created by Microsoft's Visual
C+++.

I've also just posted a step-by-step HOWTO for debugging on win32 with gcc, gdb
and friends.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From chris at palefish.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 17:44:36 2001
From: chris at palefish.co.uk (chris hinds)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:44:36 +0100
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
References: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my> <j4k80ma03o.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3B6B08A2.8070904@palefish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B7455C4.60007@palefish.co.uk>

Martin von Loewis wrote:
 > chris hinds <chris at palefish.co.uk> writes:
 >>
 >>I got exactly the same error trying to build python 2.1.1 on Redhat 7.0
 >>and afaik I've got the latest RH glibc et al. Has anyone had any luck
 >>making on RH7.0?
 >
 > Can you post exactly what glibc version you have? You find out with
 > 'rpm -qa|grep glibc'.

Ah-ha! Somehow I'd managed to get new glibc, but old glibc-devel which 
of course is where LONG_BIT was. It all builds like a dream now, many 
thanks!

Jim Dennis wrote:
 > It suggests to me that you should dump Red Hat. At least
 > vow to stay way from their (infamous) .0 releases. I personally won't
 > touch any Red Hat until x.2 (and I've used 3.03, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, and
 > --- unfortunately --- 7.0). I prefer Debian; where Debian's *unstable*
 > has generally been better than Red Hat's .2's

Agreed. I am starting to lean towards Debian (my rpm skills obviously 
suck). Next time the box goes offline - rh is for the chop...

Thanks to all,
regards,
Chris.



From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Tue Aug 28 08:03:53 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:03:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Multithreading support for BaseHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <3b8b7daf.699296734@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280758590.17658-100000@bagend.vzwcorp.com>

Try the following:

-----------------------------------------------------------

import BaseHTTPServer, SocketServer, os

PORT = 9999

class ThreadingHTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,
SocketServer.TCPServer, BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
    pass

class
SampleRequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):

def log_request(self, code='-', size='-'):
        '''
        The default log_request is not safe (it blocks)
        under heavy load. I suggest using a Queue and another
        thread to read from the queue and write it to disk as a
        possible solution here. A pass works for now, but you
        get no logging.  Comment this method out to enable
        (unsafe) logging.
        '''
        pass

    def do_GET(self):

        if self.path in ('', '/', 'HTTP/1.0'):

            # return the PID, which (on Linux anyway) is
            # different for each thread.
            response = "This page served by thread with PID %s." % os.getpid()

            self.send_response(200)
            self.send_header("Content-type", 'text/plain')
            self.end_headers()
            self.wfile.write(response)

        else:

            self.send_response(404)
            self.send_header("Content-type", 'text/plain')
            self.end_headers()
            self.wfile.write("Error 404: Not Found!")


    def do_POST(self):

        self.send_response(400)
        self.send_header("Content-type", 'text/plain')
        self.end_headers()
        self.wfile.write("400: Bad Request")


def run(server_class=ThreadingHTTPServer, handler_class=SampleRequestHandler):

    server_address = ('', PORT)
    httpd = server_class(server_address, handler_class)
    print 'serving on port', PORT
    httpd.serve_forever()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    run()

-----------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Gerson Kurz wrote:

> I'm using a BaseHTTPServer to serve up data dynamically. Some pages
> take time to process, so I would like to make a multithread server
> where serving up one page doesn't block any other.
>
> Looking into SocketServer.py, I found that both ThreadingTCPServer and
> ForkingTCPServer are available. However, when changing
>
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):
>
> to
>
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):
>
> in BaseHTTPServer, I get an error
>
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 262, in handle
>     self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
>   File "d:\python21\lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
>     new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'
>
> Any ideas? Any simple method of multithreading BaseHTTPServer?
>

-- 
Bill.Scherer at Verizon Wireless
RHCE 807101044903581




From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 29 13:58:42 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 17:58:42 GMT
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
References: <mailman.999103053.7875.python-list@python.org> <slrn9oq8t1.96i.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oqbai.ok2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:17:23 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> pisze:

>   def __comp__(self, other):
>     if self.r < other.r:
>        return -1
>     elif self.r > other.r:
>        return 1
>     else:
>        if self.i < other.i:
>           return -1
>        elif self.i > other.i:
>           return 1
>        else:
>           return 0

Or:

    def __comp__(self, other):
        return cmp((self.r, self.i), (other.r, other.i))

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 01:35:07 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:35:07 -0500
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <20010830173135.A30182@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus>
        <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>
        <20010828205936.A25413@pulp>
        <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com>
        <20010829151706.A27274@pulp>
        <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com>
        <20010829213051.A27754@pulp>
        <20010830173135.A30182@pulp>
Message-ID: <15247.8715.290395.28966@beluga.mojam.com>

    Brandon> Ok, here's the revelation:
    Brandon> (<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>, <exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x818a04c>, <traceback object at 0x8189b38> )
    Brandon> AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80c807c>
    Brandon> exceptions.AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>

    Brandon> Ie, exceptions.AttributeError and AttributeError don't match.

    Brandon> All that has to happen to cause this is to import the
    Brandon> exceptions module.

Hmmm...  Works for me in 2.1.1:

    % python
    Python 2.1.1 (#11, Aug 30 2001, 10:35:23) 
    [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Linux-Mandrake 8.0 2.96-0.48mdk)] on linux2
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import exceptions
    >>> exceptions.AttributeError 
    <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80f217c>
    >>> AttributeError 
    <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80f217c>

I checked the 2.1.1 code.  It doesn't have a call to
_PyImport_FixupExtension after the init_exceptions call.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sun Aug 26 20:34:31 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:34:31 GMT
Subject: Single Instance of app
References: <9mbj7f01054@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9oj62s.1f4.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Al Gonzalez <alberto at mindspring.com> dijo:
> Platform: Win 2000
> Py Ver: 2.1.1
> Experience: Beginner in Python
> 
> Is there a standard way in Python to determine if an instance on application
> is already running.
> 
> I'd like to switch focus in some utilities rather than run multiple
> instances.
> 
> I had thought about having the app send a request to a server and wait for a
> response if
> none then set itself up as a server in case another version is started.
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Assumeing you have write privileges to at least one directory in the
file-system (the app directory or user's home directory are good), you
can perform the same type of process used on Unices.

import os
user_dir = getuserdir()  # dunno how this is done on WinNT/2000
lock_filename = user_dir + 'lock'
if os.path.exists(lock_filename):
    print "process already running"
    sys.exit(1)
lock_file = open(lock_filename, 'w')
lock_file.write("%d\n" % os.getpid())
lock_file.close()
# go on about business as usual

This has worked for decades on *nix. <wink>  If it doesn't work on your
OS, I'd like to know how you end up solving the problem.

HTH
-- 
It's astonishing how much trouble one can
get oneself into, if one works at it.
    -- Destruction, The Sandman


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 01:22:11 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:22:11 -0400
Subject: question...
References: <3B8574A2.24C0886B@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3B85E483.D306AAD2@engcorp.com>

Adonis Vargas wrote:
> 
> how am i able to read a socket.recv() line by line instead of receving
> it all bunched up? i have looked into the socket documentation and have
> come up with makefile(); but how would i use it? is it the same as if i
> were handling an open() statement? or something completely different?

According to the docs, you are correct.  open() returns a file object,
and makefile() says it does the same.  That means the following
(untested) code should work (where host is an IP address as a string,
e.g. '192.168.0.1'):

def getLinesFromServer(host, port):
    import socket
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    s.connect((host, port))
    file = s.makefile('r')
    return file.readlines()

(I'd forgotten about this socket function.  Thanks for reminding me. :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 04:10:43 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:10:43 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b260$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <9lt52501g6c@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Neil Macneale" <mac4-devnull at theory.org> wrote in message
news:3b81b260$0$323$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net...
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > That's mainly because we rarely have to deal with people as
> > arrogant as to insult what they clearly don't understand.  When
> > you're as rude as to spew insults without understanding, then
> > condescension is the least you can expect, in any social milieu.
>
> And I rarely have to deal with head cases like you, in cyber space or
> the real world.  There is nothing sacred about unix.  I can think
> whatever I like about it. Your views are clear, and thank your for them.

Are they clear to YOU?  I wonder.  You do happen to know my
current skills and recent experience are mostly on Windows
systems, my background on VMS and IBM mainframe OS's at least
as much as on Unix, for example?

My views is that one should either know what one is speaking
about, or be reasonably humble and courteous (preferably both,
but that's too hard to accomplish in most cases, so either
one or the other will do:-).  Insulting what one clearly doesn't
understand (remember, you called os.exec* "lame" while completely
*forgetting* that an exec* is normally meant to be called after a
fork!) clearly shows that one needs some sharp reminder to
enhance one's wakefulness and attention.


> I have no time for people egos, so I am going ignore anything else
> you bother posting to this thread.

If you do have ample time for the totally unprofitable pursuit
of spewing insults at things you don't understand, you have
ample time for anything else.  I suggest skateboarding -- who
knows, some exhibition of hubris in that realm might also show
you exactly why the very use of the word 'lame' as a generic
insult, while alas all too common, is also insensitive and
degrading to people who have problems walking...


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 19:00:34 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:00:34 -0400
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <3b856114.272278696@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <WTfh7.13457$54.509054@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b856114.272278696 at wa.news.verio.net...
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:24:40 +0200, "Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es>
wrote:
>
> >Many times I want to extract a sublist and I have the initial position  p
> >plus the length  n.
> >So I do:
> >v[p:p+n]
> >
> >Many times the initial position  p  is an expression. Hence, I have to
> >repeat it tediously (and with a possible lost of performance) or assign
it
> >previously to a variable. The last is boring and is a little trick out of
> >the logic of the program
> >
> >My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
> >v[5 # 2]
> >Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]
> >
> >v[5 # -2]
> >Extract 2 elements ending at (but not including the) 5: [ v[3], v[4] ].
> >Equivalent to v[5-2:5]
> >
> >I think that this little syntactic sugar allows programs more compact and
> >readable. Also, I had less "start and end point paranoias". I suppose
that
> >the implementation is easy and the current programs are not affected at
all.
> >
> '#' is a comment delimiter which would make that usage awful. But I think
>    v[5:+=2]
> could be possible and also
>    v[-=2:5]
>
> I.e.,
>    v[a:+=b]
> and
>    v[-=b:a]
> would be equivalent to
>    v[a:a+b]
> and
>    v[a-b:a]
> IOW,
>    op=slice_parameter
> implies
>    slice_parameter_value_to_use = the_other_slice_parameter op
slice_parameter
>
> This might have interesting (maybe even useful ;-) consequences
> for ops other than + and - and might not be that bad to implement, since
> op= tokens are distinct.
>
If I can remember my Icon correctly its slicing mechanism recognised signs
as significant, so

    seq[a:+b]

meant take a slice of length b starting at position a, whereas

    seq[a:b]

took a slice from positions a to b. Of course, strictly speaking this could
induce code breakage in Python -- although the plus sign is redundant in
such existing code, it might occur. Shame the issue wasn't addressed when
slices were introduced, though.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From tyler at tylereaves.com  Fri Aug 31 23:39:59 2001
From: tyler at tylereaves.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 03:39:59 GMT
Subject: newbie.string.listless
References: <tp0j1dn37gve9d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <jMYj7.2236$l8.153157@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

FMH wrote:

> Hi
> Trying to  to process a  list and use a string function on each item in
> the
> list, then return a new list with the Capitalized items.  The output is
> correct but how do you capture it to a  new list.  I realize you can't use
> a string function on a list but by making a list copy and iterating over
> the items shouldn't this work.

Well, there is the hacky and ugly way :)

list1=['foo','bar']
list2=[]
for x in list1[:]:
        list2.append(string.dosomething(x))






From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug  7 17:38:18 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:38:18 -0400
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <jbZb7.94$qm1.11281@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Lloyd Goldwasser" <goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8 at demog.berkeley.edu...
> As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
> others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation.  'Way
> back when I was using Objective-C -- and many other OO languages seem to
> have a similar perspective -- there was a lot of emphasis on the ability
> to keep the contents of objects independent of outside influence except
> via well-delineated mechanisms.  Security and reliability were cited as
> major benefits of this approach: every object knew exactly what the
> outside world was going to see and exactly how the outside world might
> act to change its state.  Python provides only the private variable
> name-mangling mechanism for "encapsulating" the contents of objects, and
> it's weak enough that dir(ClassName) announces all of those "hidden"
> contents to the world, at which point they can be altered at will.  I
> wonder whether this approach, making encapsulation a matter of
> convention rather than something that's provided by the language, is a
> liability.  It would seem to make Python ineligible for use in projects
> that need a more reliable separation between objects and outside
> access.  How hard (or desirable) would it be to provide a stronger kind
> of encapsulation in Python?
>
This is known in Python as "programmer discipline". If you want all object
access to be through defined interfaces, then simply don't use direct
attribute access! Unfortunately this does mean that unknown clients of your
code can abuse your namespace without your knowing, so I suppose Python
might not suit all project environments. Pythonistas are pragmatists, by and
large.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From mike at wakerly.com  Tue Aug 14 20:10:33 2001
From: mike at wakerly.com (mike)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:10:33 -0700
Subject: Wake-on-LAN via Python?
In-Reply-To: <3B79C006.MD-1.4.15.angband@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200108150010.UAA10149@tonnant.cnchost.com>

Hey Bablos,

That's an interesting question -- I've always been looking for something 
interesting to do with 'Wake-on-LAN'. (Not that I've found it...)

Anyway, you have to send the 'magic packet' on the wire such that your 
target computer will see the sequence. The magic packet can be any 
message... be it an ethernet frame, or part of a TCP/IP or UDP payload. 
It is merely:

	6 bytes: FF FF FF FF FF FF
	..followed by...
	16 repetitions of the 6-byte MAC address

Neat, huh? And they got a patent for it! A better description is at:
http://www.amd.com/products/npd/overview/20212.html

Cheers,
Mike

On Tuesday, August 14, 2001, at 04:19 PM, Bablos wrote:
> Hi There...
>
> Has anyone managed to implement Wake-on-LAN via Python?  I assume it's
> possible, but I'm not sure what kind of programming would be involved,
> and what kind of information would need to be sent to a machine on a
> LAN in order to wake it up.
>
> Hope someone can point me in the right direction!
>
> Also, does anyone know how to speed up the retrbinary process?  My
> posting regarding this has yet to receive a reply!
>
>
> Bablos.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Wed Aug 15 15:23:35 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:23:35 +0200
Subject: Feedback welcome!
References: <0i8lnt4q3b027nst6us2hlq4pgd2qvrgqe@4ax.com> <9leb5o02m7f@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <013c01c125bf$e7490c70$95bd6ac2@zko>

From: Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>> 
> [...] but many
> of us prefer cross-platform tools such as the amazing SciTE
> (190K download for a fully functional editor/lightweight IDE
> for Windows, great support for a zillion languages, excellent
> Linux versions, AND nothing to pay in any case at all, as well
> as all source available for inspection, study, fixing, ...).

I, just, must to sey: EXCELLENT !

gzeljko






From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Wed Aug  1 15:24:01 2001
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 12:24:01 -0700
Subject: a break for comprehensions
References: <mailman.996515638.21022.python-list@python.org> <ac677656.0107301331.5330d4db@posting.google.com> <Pyk97.4104$9i1.318163@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <U9H97.163512$EF2.22005506@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0108011124.53b4af52@posting.google.com>

cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford) wrote in message news:<U9H97.163512$EF2.22005506 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>...

[snip]
> Another possibility would be to have list comprehensions always return a
> generator, and then if you need a list instead, use the built-in
> function list(), for example:
> 
>     list([x*2 for x in g()])
> 
> But this will cause code breakage..maybe the solution to *that* would be
> to add __getitem__(), __len__(), __contains__(), etc. to generator
> objects, so that they can be manipulated as if they were lists.  (This
> would solve the original poster's problem too -- you could do g()[:50]
> to get the first 50 items of a generator.)

You've inspired me to start writing a list-like wrapper for
generators.  Here is what I have so far.  It combines some list syntax
with lazy evaluation, and supports (some) slice operations on
unbounded generators.


from __future__ import generators

class GenList:
    "wraps a generator so it will support some list operations"
    def __init__(self, gen):
        self.gen = gen
        self.cachedResults = []

    def genNext(self):
        self.cachedResults.append(self.gen.next())

    def __getitem__(self, i):
        if i < 0:
            raise IndexError
            # negative indices would not work with
            # unbounded generators
        try:
            while len(self.cachedResults) <= i:
                self.genNext()
        except StopIteration:
            pass
            
        return self.cachedResults[i]

    def __getslice__(self, i, j):
        if i < 0 or j < 0:
            raise IndexError
            # negative indices would not work with
            # unbounded generators
        try:
            while len(self.cachedResults) <= j:
                self.genNext()
        except StopIteration:
            pass
        
        return self.cachedResults[i:j]


def main():
    def gen():
        x = 0
        while 1:
            x += 1
            yield x

    glist = GenList(gen())
    print glist[4]
    print glist[:10]


From nampahc807 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 15:04:20 2001
From: nampahc807 at yahoo.com (It Works!)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:04:20 -0800
Subject: This is a pleasant surprise!!!        25KUSO1A2
Message-ID: <UTC200108071641.SAA28495@hera.cwi.nl>

       "This is a pleasant surprise "!!!

 
Simply for accepting our FREE invitation to see this opportunity work for
YOU, we'll "lock in" your position and EVERYONE who signs up AFTER you,
signs up UNDER you!!

You can take your time and review all the benefits of your free membership
, because frankly, there are too many remarkable benefits to be able to
understand them all at a glance. 

 For an example, my sponsor's sponsor is earning $8,000.00 a month
guaranteed income, and in a year, she has earned a lifetime income!!

 I'm now earning a guaranteed income, and very soon, you can also!!

 Why are we doing this?  Because when you see the explosive growth and
momentum, and you see how this program was designed to help any sincere
marketer succeed, you'll accept the down line we've placed under you, and
you'll decide to harvest your piece of this incredible event.

So what are you waiting for?  This is a FREE, No Cost, No Obligation
opportunity to watch your monthly commissions grow.

The person who just signed up will be pleased to add you to their down
line.

See for yourself:   JOIN FREE!!!!!!!  JOIN FREE!!!!!!!

To join our FREE post launch program, send us an email

mailto:R_Success at Yahoo
.com?subject=I_Would_Like_To_Join_Post_Paunch_for_Free25KUSO1A2!!! 
and include your "first name, last name, and email" in the text... 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
 
This is the program that built itself while I was too busy beating myself
up with the others. It was FREE to join, and they said they would PROVE
that it worked.

        Guess what.....it Works!

Let me show you, and prove it to you too.  No hype, no shouting, no risk,
just an opportunity to make a guaranteed income every month.. 

Send me an Email - I'll take it from there! J

   JOIN FREE!!!!!!!  JOIN FREE!!!!!!!

To join our FREE post launch program, send us an email

mailto:R_Success at Yahoo
.com?subject=I_Would_Like_To_Join_Post_Paunch_for_Free25KUSO1A2!!! 

And include your "first name, last name, and email" in the text...

We will send you an email to confirm your free membership, and provide
additional benefits of the program.

You have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain!
________________________________________________________________




To be removed from future mailings: 
mailto:nampahc807 at yahoo.com?Subject=Remove 
--2---
 








From cgaston at moonqzie.com  Thu Aug 30 11:52:07 2001
From: cgaston at moonqzie.com (Carlos Alvarez)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:52:07 +0200
Subject: com crash
Message-ID: <00d401c1316b$b93207d0$1b00a8c0@domain.moonqzieserver>

Hi there,

     Using the com clases with internet explorer (to control it) when you call navigate of a window python crashes. If you call navigate of explorer it works fine. It is a bug. C++ builder reports an error but doesnt crash.
     I dont know if it was fixed in a more resent release (using win32all built 140 on windows 2000 profesional witch python 2.1).

Chau,

Gaston
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010830/c3c77701/attachment.html>

From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 04:22:05 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:22:05 +0200
Subject: comparing results of fetchall() with a known value
References: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lt5ne01gt8@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Jeff" <jhardcastle at solarc.com> wrote in message
news:e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1 at posting.google.com...
> Hi - I'm new to Python, and am having trouble reading the results of a
> database call using fetchall().  Here's my situation:
>
> I have a database table containing a list of names, and I have a
> string variable containing a name.  I need logic that will determine
> if my string exists in the database table.  So I have a simple sql
> like "select name from employees", and I have a string empname =
> 'Jones', and I need to verify that 'Jones' is in the employees list
> (assume duplicate names are not an issue in this case).

So, why not just "select name from employees where name='%s'"%empname
or similar approach with a placeholder "... where name=?" and the
value provided in the query call?  SQL and relational DB engines
are very good at such jobs!


> Here's what I've done: I created an odbc connect to the database,
> opened a cursor, executed the sql, then set a variable: namelist =
> cursor.fetchall().  What's got me stumped is that "namelist" is a list
> of tuples with sample data like: [('smith',), ('johnson',),
> ('jackson',), ('jones',)]
>
> If this were a normal tuple or list, I could easily use:
>
> "if empname in namelist:
>      ....execute code...."
>
> But with the list of tuples, I don't know how to easily do this. My

    if (empname,) in namelist:

should work just fine.  But it's a linear search, while the DB
engine might well be able to perform a much faster one -- it
IS, after all, its main job!


> hunch is that there must be some way to convert that list of tuples
> into a list of single values, since I only need the first element of
> the tuple like 'jackson' from ('jackson',).  Once I had the list of
> single values, my if statement above would work.

Yeah, but that's too much work -- transforming each of N tuples
into its first-element rather than transforming ONE string you're
looking for into a one-element tuple.  Anyway, if you're intent
on using this slower approach at all costs, it would be:

    if empname in [tuple[0] for tuple in namelist]:


Alex





From jaif at mindspring.com  Tue Aug 21 17:28:09 2001
From: jaif at mindspring.com (Jeff Cohen)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:28:09 -0400
Subject: MOOP/POO help
Message-ID: <9lujp9$hh3$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

If this isn't the right place to post this, please direct me to the correct
spot.

I'm playing with MOOP (a POO descendant) as a means to sharpen my novice
python skills.  I'm just starting, and would like to know how to add a
property to a class that carry's through to all it's children.  More
specifically:

I'm using a virgin MOOP install and then running bootstrap.  I see usertypes
"User", "Wizard", etc, and note that Wizard is a descendant of User.  I want
to add a property, "hitpoints" to user.  So, I use the @set command on
$sys.usertypes.User and I have a new property when I @ex
$sys.usertypes.User.  However, when I @ex $sys.usertypes.Wizard, I don't see
my new property.

I'm probably thinking of something incorrectly here, or just making a dumb
error.  Can someone tell me what I need to do to make my vision occur, short
of modifying bootstrap.txt with my props, and then re-doing the install?

Thanks,

-Jeff




From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Aug  7 05:17:08 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:17:08 +0200
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
In-Reply-To: <3B6F8C7F.E1CA4C22@ActiveState.com>
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <3B6F8C7F.E1CA4C22@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20010807111708.U626@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:36:47PM -0700, Paul Prescod wrote:
> Phil Tomson wrote:

> > Is there any sort of forum (comp.lang.parrot? - well, parrot isn't
> > strictly a language ) where all three groups can discuss ideas?

> There isn't really any kind of formal discussion going on. If there was
> it would *probably* take place here:

> http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/02/142236&mode=thread

Note that there's been some activity on python-dev between python- and
perl-developers, though most of this has been "uderstanding how python
works" (and also how perl works, for that matter) "to see if it's even
possible to combine". Some of the low-level discussion was taken offline,
though, but I'm not sure howmuch (I can only see what I get in my mailbox,
after all :)

Still, these aren't the grand discussions on design that will eventually
have to arise to get things going :) ESR promised to dive into Perl (and
Python alike) to start working on it, so I guess we'll hear from him.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From lomax at pumpichank.com  Thu Aug  2 16:33:25 2001
From: lomax at pumpichank.com (Frank "Finger Fart" Lomax)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:33:25 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>
	<mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org>
	<T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<9kbip102o37@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <15209.47381.438202.794304@anthem.wooz.org>

    > No way.  I've given "print>>blotch,horror" a try as fair as the
    > fact that it curls my blood allows, and I still detest it just
    > as much as when I first saw it.  So what?  I'm not gonna fork
    > Python over this, obviously -- Python still gives me by far
    > enough value to pay for the extra dental work needed by all the
    > teeth-gnashing that the detested "print>>tippedoverchevron"
    > causes me, though I do plan to send Guido the dentist's bill,
    > obviously.

Ah cool, he'll weight that against the savings from my physical
therapist bill which he's been paying since before print>> was added
to the language.  Considering that I write 10k-50k lines of Python a
day, they might just cancel each other out!

just-wait-for-the-print<<-pep-ly y'rs, - frank



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 25 23:40:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:40:26 -0400
Subject: Real.py
In-Reply-To: <3b87bfb2.300932838@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBGLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mats Wichmann]
> ...
> It's almost like we need a "mini-Forge" - a web where bits of
> contributed Python can be put, complete with CVS, space for matching
> doc pages, and download counters to keep track of if anyone's using
> 'em.

Such a happy idea!  Why not use SourceForge itself?  If someone volunteers
to set up a Python Contrib project there, it's no problem getting them
access to the old contrib tarball.

don't-everyone-run-away-at-once<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug 23 23:13:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:13:40 -0400
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <9m42ml$qi5@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEKMLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu]
> 	Just wanted to point out that there's been
> 	some recent work from IBM Research on a
> 	concurrent reference-counting collector for Java
> 	that reclaims cycles but without doing any
> 	global tracing like mark&sweep or copying
>         (it does do some localized tracing but
> 	not the entire graph of accessible objects).
>
> 	This also seems to be one of the few papers
> 	that does a head-to-head performance comparison
> 	between ref-counting and mark&sweep (concurrent
> 	versions):
> 	  http://www.research.ibm.com/people/d/dfb/papers.html#Bacon01Java

Cool!  Thanks for the reference.  Python's cycle reclamation scheme actually
has a lot in common with this, although Python's is based more directly on a
scheme first implemented for Fortran (of all places!) than on the work of
Christopher and Lins and so on.

I'll note in passing that these "local scans" have a killer advantage for
Python that doesn't appear relevant for their Java work:  a foreign system
can easily get hold of a pointer to a Python object, and Python has no way
"even in theory" to chase memory owned by other subsystems.  Neither does it
have any way to *know* that a foreign subsystem is holding on to a pointer.
This creates what appear to be insurmountable problems for global M&S:  it
can't trace all the live objects because some live objects are outside its
vision.

This doesn't bother local scanning, because that's only trying to account
for all the refcounts due to pointers it *does* know about.  The effect of
an "invisible" pointer on a local scan is merely to guarantee that the
pointee stays alive (because we can't see the pointer, we can't account for
all the refcounts in a local scan, and so don't reclaim the object it points
to).

> ...
> 	They also claim that in this age of
> 	ultra-fast processors and slow memory,
> 	it might be a good tradeoff to spend
> 	more CPU time doing ref-counting operations
> 	while improving memory access time
> 	due to ref-counting's better overall locality
> 	(no periodic trashing of cache and VM
> 	system by global tracing of heap).

It's unclear.  For *distributed* systems, it is clear(er), and refcounting
has enjoyed a major resurgence in that context (having to travel across a
network to chase a pointer has a wonderfully clarifying effect <wink>).

still-waiting-for-bubblesort's-rehabilitation-ly y'rs  - tim




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug 29 10:08:24 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 07:08:24 -0700
Subject: Running Python on a MOSIX cluster
References: <87e9cb21.0108251104.7d3b530d@posting.google.com> <3b8cb023$0$1816$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <9mit0o$5d6$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3b8cb023$0$1816$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>,
Guido Stepken  <stepken at little-idiot.de> wrote:
>
>Python 2.1.1 IMHO is stackless python ....green threads means, that python 
>interpreter itself is doing multitasking. Older versions 1.5, 1.6 ... need 
>kernel-threads - so older versions may spread over the mosix cluster.

That is incorrect; Python 2.1.1 still uses kernel threads, and I believe
Stackless has not yet been ported to Python 2.1.1.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Aug  7 16:12:59 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:12:59 -0400
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
In-Reply-To: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C2@il93exm04.css.mot.com>; from Randy.L.Kemp@motorola.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:25:29PM -0500
References: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C2@il93exm04.css.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20010807161259.B5895@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:25:29PM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote:
> Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.  I
> have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I
> want to replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump
> off a cliff." This is a comic example, but I need to do something
> similar in real life.  How can I do this in Python, running on Unix? 

Yes.  In Python, you would apply
    string.replace(line, 'Have a good day', 'jump off a cliff')
to every line in the file.  If the file is small, then you can slurp the
whole file into memory, and apply 'string.replace()' only once.

But, in my opinion, this calls for shell solution:
    for i in [A-Z]; do
	sed -e "s/Have a good day/jump off a cliff/g" $i > tmp
	mv tmp $i
    done

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug  5 14:58:13 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:58:13 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9Hgb7.73303$EP6.17305404@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67 at 4ax.com...
> If this PEP goes ahead, as every indication shows it always was
going
> to do, then, on the whole, it just means I won't trust Python to
> remain stable any more.

Your choice.  This is the first Python change in 11 years to break
forward compatibility of old code in a major way.  It is comparable,
perhaps, to the change in C from K&R to ANSI function declarations
(which the CPython codebase has gone thru).  I expect it to be as
rare, but who knows.

>.... However, the simple fact is that the Python dictatorship is a
somewhat weak one,
> compared with other dictatorships.

The BDFL title is partly a recognition of Guido's original and ongoing
prime authorship (=speakership =dictatorship) of the ongoing works
known as Python (the language specification) and CPython (the
implementation thereof).  It is also partly a joke (a pun on the
varied meanings of dictator) perpetrated and perpetuated by Tim Peters
and a few others.  Taking it too seriously, in the negative meaning,
as others have done even worse than you, seems to me a bit hysterical.
I think something else like LFL (Leader For Life) might have been and
now maybe would be a better choice (Tim?).

> We are all free to leave and go elsewhere, and there's nothing the
DFL can do about it.

Since Guido has already acknowledged your freedom and invited you to
exercise it if you wish, and disclaimed any intention to 'do
[anything] about it' (other than in how he develops Python) what is
your purpose in continuing to falsely label him 'dictator' as in
'denier of freedom'?  Enough I think.

Terry J. Reedy






From steffen.ries at sympatico.ca  Sat Aug 25 12:32:53 2001
From: steffen.ries at sympatico.ca (Steffen Ries)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:32:53 -0400
Subject: seg. fault with ext. module
References: <s5Kh7.41577$Vs4.366601@zonnet-reader-1> <m3lmk8xr77.fsf@gondolin.beleriand> <utOh7.41606$Vs4.368258@zonnet-reader-1>
Message-ID: <m3heuwxfpm.fsf@gondolin.beleriand>

"Gorny" <gorny at hobbiton.org> writes:

> > You forgot to increment the reference count for None, which creates a
> > problem at termination time.
> >
> > See http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html
> 
> If I understand it all well, the problem handles about NOT defining
> the reference, so the returned variable stays in memory??

Yes (sort of). The function returns a reference to an existing object
without updating the ref count. The caller (the Interpreter) will
decrement the ref count, when this reference gets out of scope,
which means in this case `None' is disposed too early, because it was
used more often than the ref count said. (Someone with more insight
can explain why this creates a segfault.)

> I have to do this *always* when working with variables in the
> module which can be accessed from python??
> Well thanks in advance...:)

Yes. If you return a reference to an existing object, you have to
increment the ref count. If you create a new object (e.g. with
Py_BuildValue()), you just pass the reference to the caller.

/steffen


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 03:30:33 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:30:33 +0200
Subject: Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.
References: <9mk4du$eik$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <9mkq2t0160s@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mk4du$eik$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.

See http://httpd.apache.org/docs/windows.html for
full instructions including where to download it
from.  You should really learn to use Google, by
the way -- it's extremely simple and lets you find
such stuff even faster and with less effort than
asking in newsgroups:-).  Just visit www.google.com,
enter
    apache windows
in the textbox, hit "Google Search", and there
you are -- all the relevant locations summarized
(you only see the first 10 of 584,000 hits, but
that's quite enough:).


I've heard that Goggle uses Python for part of
their incredibly good search engine, btw:-).


Alex





From jknapka at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 23 00:27:58 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:27:58 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1b4l$29l8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3B843167.C46F62A6@earthlink.net>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> Quoth Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net>:
> | I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
> | be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
> | I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
> | work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
> | a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
> | dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
> | already a standard function to do it.
> 
> getattr(inst, name)
> 
>         Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

*This* is the answer I wanted. And to think I read
the "built-in functions" docs and completely
overlooked getattr() :-P

Thanks, everyone, for the help!

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug  7 04:42:46 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:42:46 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com>
 <mailman.997048811.22969.python-list@python.org>
 <459umtohbc1q062j2sgflcc0pmond739vv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wu3NshAGo6b7EwpI@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <459umtohbc1q062j2sgflcc0pmond739vv at 4ax.com>, Stephen Horne
<steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> writes
....
>How many people around here have explicitly admitted they are wrong
>when they are wrong?
>
>I have on several occasions. Care to name anyone else?
....
well I was clearly wrong to have referred to the MDFL as it was taken
seriously and clouded the real issue which was the complete wrong
headedness of 238. Actions against my best interest can hardly be
regarded as benevolent though. 

As for fields etc I have the following

                         Abelian Group
                               |
                               |
                              Ring
                             /    \
                            /      \
                           /        \
                     Commutative    Division
                         Ring        Ring
                          |           |
                          |           |
                     Integral         |
                       Domain         |
                          \          /
                           \        /
                             Field

but apparently not everyone thinks an Integral Domain (xy=0 ==> x=0 or
y=0) should be commutative. Since not every integer is invertible the
integers are not a field. On the other hand probably only Tim Peters
knows what the set of IEEE 754 floating point numbers is so mathematical
arguments are clearly pointless. 

We're discussing programming languages and the arithmetic of integers
has oscillated between the floating point and discrete form in various
languages. My belief is that the current 'classic' system is pretty
optimal for programming purposes and that it is wrong to add the extra
complexity that the PEP proposes. Everywhere else in python we are
exhorted to OO thinking, why is it different for this operator? I don't
see any plans for a special divide by string operator (to make 3/'3' OK)
and clearly there is some desire for that amongst perlers.
-- 
Robin Becker


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 26 01:41:06 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:41:06 -0400
Subject: scoping weirdness
In-Reply-To: <7xn14oilko.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEBLLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> Well ok, but I thought we had a thread the other day saying Python
> doesn't actually have closures :-).

Sure -- there's *always* at least one thread spouting nonsense <0.7 wink>.
Python always had closures, but not always spelled in exactly the way all
newcomers expected (and before nested_scopes, spelled in ways that *no*
newcomer expected -- not even the ones on heavy drugs).

> Anyway I was surprised.

OK, we'll take nested scopes out again -- they were a bloody nuisance to
explain to non-Scheme-heads anyway <wink>.

> ...
> Yes, let me go up a level and ask if there's a better way to do this.
> It's for Tkinter--say I want several buttons that all call the same
> function, giving the button text as an argument.  My code looks
> something like:
>
>     from __future__ import nested_scopes
>     from Tkinter import *
>
>     def press_button (text):
>       print 'you pressed %s' % text
>
>     def create_button (label):
>       func = lambda: press_button (label)
>       Button(root,text=label,command=func).pack()
>       # if I put more stuff here and set label to something new,
>       # the button doesn't do what I expected.
>
>     root = Tk()
>     create_button ("fear")
>     create_button ("surprise")
>     create_button ("ruthless efficiency")

Pick one:

1. If you don't want label to change, *don't* set label to something new.
   If you poke yourself in the eye, it will hurt.

2. Exploit the behavior you disliked last week (and this is one of the
   reasons it was deliberately done this way):

        def func(label=label):
            return press_button(label)

   That is, exploit that default arguments capture their values just
   once, at function definition time, rather than anew at each invocation.
   (BTW, you can use a lambda there instead; I simply prefer not to, as
   I find named defs clearer, and easier to change over time.)

3. Write a class.

class ButtonPresser:
    def __init__(self, label):
        self.label = label

    def __call__(self):
        return press_button(self.label)

...
    func = ButtonPresser(label)

4. Write another class.

class ButtonPresser:
    def __init__(self, label):
        self.label = label

    def worker(self):
        return press_button(self.label)

...
    func = ButtonPresser(label).worker

5: Go insane:
    func = eval("lambda: push_button(%r)" % label)

> The point is that from the Tkinter docs it looks like the Button
> widget really wants its command parameter to be a function with no
> args, so I needed to create a lambda that would call press_button with
> the arg I wanted.

More accurately, it needs to be a callable object that can tolerate being
called with no arguments.  "callable objects" includes possibilities like #3
and #4 above, creating an instance that defines __call__ (#3), or a bound
method object (#4).  #3/#4 are overkill in this case, but grow more
attractive the more state you want to associate with a button.

> What would be best is if the Button widget had a way of passing args
> to its command func.  Is there something like that which I missed?

I don't know.  But it's Python:  if that's what you like, subclass Button
and build in the behaviors *you* like best.  It's easy to extend #3 to a
general wrapper class that can curry away any kind of argument list.  BTW, I
think it's been proven that GUI programming is the one thing OO is actually
good for <wink>.




From gry at ll.mit.edu  Wed Aug 29 10:30:04 2001
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (George Young)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:30:04 -0400
Subject: unix 'mtio' mag tape interface?
Message-ID: <3B8CFC6C.CE2B1F39@ll.mit.edu>

[python 2.1]
Has anyone taken a crack at a unix/linux (scsi) magnetic tape
control/status interface
for python?  I'm specifically interested in Solaris 7 and Linux 2.2.18
but any
*nix would be a starting point.  I'm putting together a dump system in
python, and
I'm getting very weary of parsing the output of popen('mt -f
/dev/nst0'), the format
of which varies a lot between systems.  

Failing anything code to steal, what's the cleanest way to take a C
header file
for the mtio ioctl's and produce a neat python interface?  Performance
is completely
irrelevant, just ease of development, and clarity and portability of the
result.

Thanks,
	George
-- 
 I cannot think why the whole bed of the ocean is
 not one solid mass of oysters, so prolific they seem. Ah,
 I am wandering! Strange how the brain controls the brain!
	-- Sherlock Holmes in "The Dying Detective"


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 09:03:31 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:03:31 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> > For example, you could have a __getattr__ that initialized the thing
> > as soon as it is touched.
> 
> But then *none* of the methods could belong to the class?!  Each and
> every one to be inserted afresh in every instance's __dict__?!

No, in the new system, __getattr__ is called for all attributes.  See
my response to Roman.

> But then
> what's the use of "making the object the right class from the start",
> as that class C HAS to be empty to let __getattr__ do its job?!
> 
> Of course, if the initialization is done by __getattr__ anyway, it's
> quite futile to use __new__ to "return an empty instance of the
> class" -- the necessarily-empty __init__ does just as well, no?

Sorry, I'm not following you at all here.  I suggest that you try
again.

The specific example *I* was thinking of is in pickle.py, which wants
to create an instance of a class without calling __init__.  It
currently uses this:

    value = _EmptyClass()
    value.__class__ = klass # The class it should be

and then it initializes the instance variables.

I claim that it's more elegant to write

    value = klass.__new__()

instead.

> So, again, I ask -- how is knowing from the start the class C to
> which the instance will belong, when its Promise is fulfilled, and
> exploiting the __new__ feature to make an empty C.__new__ -- how
> does this *HELP AT ALL*?  Your alleged "example" is NOT an example
> of all of this glittering technology helping at all with this
> problem.

Zope's persistency support manages this without assignment to
__class__.  A persistent object has three states: ghost, valid, and
modified (I think the names are different).  A ghost object has the
right class, but no instance variables; these are loaded on demand,
and then the state changes to valid.  On the first change to an
instance variable, the state changes again to modified.  When a
modified object is written to the store, it is changed back to valid;
when a valid object is no longer needed, its instance variables are
deleted and the state changed back to ghost (usually it will be
garbage collected next, but if there is still a reference to it, it
may be resurrected from the store later).

> Which is not a problem in Python as it stands -- becomes a problem
> if and when you implement the "enhancement" (?) of forbidding the
> change-class-of-object idiom that Python now supports.

I really doubt that Python 1.4 was a much worse language than 1.5, and
I doubt that Python's popularity has much to do with the ability to
assign to __class__.

Besides, I'm not so much forbidding it as resisting the work it takes
to implement safely.  You can write a metaclass that allows __class__
assignment in C, and then its safety is your own responsibility.

[snip]
> But it's ironic -- there, I used an indirector to work around the
> inability of inheriting from a built-in object.  Now, I look forward
> to pensioning off that idiom... and I may have to resurrect it to work
> around the inability of changing an object's __class__...!-)

I'd like to see which is more common -- the need to change __class__
or the need to inherit from a built-in type.  I'm betting the latter,
by a large amount.

> I guess I'll have to look at the source to understand why that's
> so inevitable -- right now it escapes me.  (Is it going to be part
> of 2.2alpha2, or do I have to get a CVS tree?)

The architectural restrictions that make it hard to change __class__
in some situations have been part of Python since it was first
released.  Unless I misunderstand what you're asking for, 2.2a1 should
exhibit this just fine.

> Of course, just as there are other ways of accomplishing raising-to-
> power, besides having it as a built-in -- it IS just repeated
> multiplication, after all.  That's no argument for removing **
> from the language, it seems to me.  It IS no doubt rarely used
> AND easily mis-used [code such as x**3+2.2*x**2+1.4*x+3.6
> rather than 3.6+x*(1.4+x*(2.2+x)) is most likely slower] -- but
> that's no real argument for taking ** away, as it may well be the
> most natural/clear/readable way to express some problems, and
> also (if and when used appropriately) faster than alternatives.

This is the most bizarre argument for __class__ asignment that I have
seen so far.

> As I said, exactly Stroustrup's reasoning in C++'s design -- a non
> overridable method is faster than a virtual one, so he preferred to
> make users request virtuality explicitly.  Like anybody who's ever
> taught C++ or helped beginners in that language fix mistakes, I've
> had occasion to bemoan that design choice repeatedly -- even though,
> with performance such an important priority for C++, and historical
> compatibility reasons, it's quite understandable.

Since you're invoking beginners here, let me bounce that argument
right back.  Do you seriously believe that assignment to __class__ is
something you would want beginners to know about?

> > I expect that the new facilities will be seriously user-tested only
> > after 2.2 is released, and experience will learn how often people are
> > changing class variables.
> 
> You think people will be changing class variables _less_ often than
> now because of 2.2's new facilities?  I don't see the relevance, but
> I guess I must have missed something.  The new facilities appear
> to be very deep and important, but in areas quite different from
> those in which class-object changes are useful, it seems to me.

Your mind works so different from mine...  It's frustrating for me to
try and understand what you mean, and no doubt it's the same for you.

I strongly believe that most Python users have no need for assignment
to class attributes most of the time.  Class attributes are mainly
used for two purposes: (1) methods and (2) default initializations of
instance variables.  Neither use requires changing the class
attribute.  Overrides are done using subclassing or assignment to
instance variables.  I know some people like to use class variables
instead of module globals, mimicking Java/C++ static class variables,
but I believe that's mistaken -- those languages don't have a module
namespace like Python, so the convention of putting globals in a class
makes sense from a naming perspective there.

Every time someone uses the dynamism to patch a standard library
class, I cringe -- it's asking for trouble.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug 15 08:42:16 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:42:16 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
> keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.

You might say that.  The good news is that what Guido
did was substitute his own sense, which in the case of 
language design appears generally to be better than the
"common" sense.

Your questions are interesting (although they've been
asked many, many times before), but hold back on judging
the rationality of the design until you've spent more 
time with Python and got a better feel for the type of 
sense that was actually behind it. :-)

(This being free advice, you can of course return it
for a full refund. :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Aug 10 13:42:34 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:42:34 -0000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108100815.77884faf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <997465342.347061@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
| Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<997418262.593664 at yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>...
|> But anyway, did I say you should write the whole thing in C?
|> I should bite my tongue, but actually I did not say that.
|> I stay away from C when I can, and you should too.  I only
|> said "a faster language".
|
| Well, if we're restricting ourselves to statically typed mainstream
| languages, they're all basically C for the purposes of this discussion.

>From the "shootout" figures, OCaml would be one place to look.  This
is not at all an endorsement of OCaml over Python, OCaml in general,
the shootout benchmarks, an assertion that OCaml is a mainstream
language, etc.  It does appear to be a faster option, without C's
liabilities.

| The notion that static type checking can improve performance is not
| at issue.  The question is whether the costs of static type checking
| are worth that performance.  Also, remember that stalin shows that
| static type inference can bring many of the performance benefits of
| static type checking to dynamically typed languages.  Implementing
| such inference is largely a globally fixed cost and the benefits will
| be received by all applications.  Static typing's costs are incurred
| by all applications.

When we came in, if I recall the early posts to this long thread,
someone made everyone upset by suggesting that Python's lack of
static typing was a liability for acceptance in the industry.
I don't know if it's true, you may or may not agree.  It isn't
worth rehashing that all over again, but the performance benefit
was only a beneficial potential side effect - some people actually
have the demented view that static typing is an asset in itself.

| So, how many of YOUR applications would be significantly improved
| if they were 2x faster?  Be specific?  What would you give up for
| that speed?

Python is a good choice for the things that Python is good for.
When Python is over its head, for performance reasons for example,
I don't write in Python.  So all my Python applications are fast
enough within reasonable limits.  I'm just tired of writing C,
that's all.  For the moment, I think that's where I'm going to
leave it.  If you don't think anything that isn't fast enough in
Python is worth doing, then that's good for you.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From bvdpoel at uniserve.com  Fri Aug 24 12:17:43 2001
From: bvdpoel at uniserve.com (bvdpoel at uniserve.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:17:43 -0700
Subject: optional args for getopt()
References: <3B847188.F403FEA3@uniserve.com> <0108231343520N.28818@ike> <3B859647.B62A861B@uniserve.com> <0108241032020Z.28818@ike>
Message-ID: <3B867E27.251009C0@uniserve.com>

Richard Jones wrote:
> 
> On Friday 24 August 2001 09:48, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> > Richard Jones wrote:
> > > On Thursday 23 August 2001 12:59, bvdpoel at uniserve.com wrote:
> > > > Is there a way to signal that the arg for getopt in optional. In C I
> > > > can set an option string to something like:
> > >
> > > Sorry, to answer this question directly - I don't believe it's possible
> > > in the current getopt code. Your best bet would possibly be to locally
> > > change getopt to do qhat you need (and at the same time, generate a patch
> > > that can be submitted to python.sf.net).
> > >
> > >    Richard
> >
> > Thanks. I really was hoping NOT to have to reinvent the wheel. For now
> > I'll just leave well enough alone and do my own parsing.... but if any
> > maintainers are reading this, it would be nice to have GNU compatibility
> > in this.
> 
> I wasn't talking about re-inventing the wheel... I was talking about a minor
> change to an existing one. OK, attached is a simple patch against the getopt
> module from the 2.1 distribution (encoded so mail systems don't mess with the
> formatting). I've submitted this to the sourceforge patch repository.
> 
> BTW: in a large number of cases in the python library - we, the python
> community, are the "maintainers" of the code. Modules get extended when
> someone has a need and submits the code the python maintainers.
> 
> Note: I've only implemented this behaviour - none of the other GNU
> extensions. Hope it's useful for you.

Thanks.

I'm wondering if there isn't a better way to go on all this...

 - Since what I (and I'm guessing others) is looking for is GNU
compatibility, and since this stuff has already been written in C why
not just write a C extension which calls the C library function. I've
never written a C python extension, but it might be an interesting
learning experience. It is on my list.

 - But, thinking a bit more, it appears that python already calls the
relevant function. So, should getopt() be added as part of python
itself? Hmmm, probably a bunch of reasons for this not to happen?


-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at uniserve.com
WWW:   http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel




From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 15 16:53:52 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:53:52 +0200
Subject: need definitive answer: capture a keypress
References: <90qkntktle172v8vdl6jgi9eh646of3n8f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2227928.KQ5TDuZKlY@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

robin at brainexeculink.com <robin at brainexeculink.com> schrub:

> What is worse, curses appears to interact badly with the standard
> print statement, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to get
> sequential text formatted in a nice simple "print" way, using curses.

You could use the new print>> into a stringfile.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Aug  7 15:26:01 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 21:26:01 +0200
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Not paying attention to the headers, I first replied to c.l.py.a to
have my posting sent of to some moderator. So let me retry in case the
other doesn't make it into c.l.py.

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:
...
> As usual I'm writing up an explanation of the changes in 2.2:
> 	http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/

Thanks for making such nice overviews, I always check them out to see
how beatifull the next Python is going to be.

But on this explanatory page I was a bit surprised in your treatment of
the iter protocol regarding dictionaries. It lumbed together both uses
of in, the __contains__() version and the next() one.  The fact that
"key in dict" is now equivalent to "dict.has_key(key)" has nothing to
do with the iterability of dicts, at least that's what I've understood
sofar.

-- 
groetjes, carel


From maxm at normik.dk  Thu Aug 23 10:44:50 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:44:50 +0200
Subject: zero padded string
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197E00@exchange>

> From: Max M?ller Rasmussen [mailto:maxm at normik.dk]

> There will allways be the same number of zeroes.

What I meant was that the zeropadded string will allways have a hardcoded
length!

Doh!

Max M



From s.franke at flowstate.com  Thu Aug 16 12:39:51 2001
From: s.franke at flowstate.com (stefan)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:39:51 -0700
Subject: Newbie question Python on Windows ME
Message-ID: <d136f764.0108160839.3cd24e8@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I started to read about Python today in my lunchbreak... I downloaded
Python-2.1.1.exe from www.python.org, ran the installer and played
around with the DOS-promt-like looking window (the one with the
">>>"). As a next step I put my Python code into a file with the
ending ".py". Then I clicked on the little snake icon of this file but
actually nothing happened apart from the DOS-promt-like looking window
popping up for one second and then closing again.

Should these files be executed in some other way? I couldn't find
anything on this issue in the tutorials so I hope that someone here
can help me.

Are there any tutorials for beginners on the internet that are
specifically written for Windows?

Thank you,
Stefan


From grante at visi.com  Tue Aug  7 13:24:35 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:24:35 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9n095r.bn1.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <3B700C33.1D161BAC at earthlink.net>, Joseph A. Knapka wrote:

> PEP proposal: add a backtracking Horn-clause resolution
> engine to Python!

Hey, my original experience with OOP was with Digitalk
Smalltalk, and it did have a Prolog engine available for use
from Smalltalk programs.  It was pretty cool -- especially
comapred to the other software available for an 8MHz IBM-AT.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My forehead feels
                                  at               like a PACKAGE of moist
                               visi.com            CRANBERRIES in a remote
                                                   FRENCH OUTPOST!!


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 20 00:29:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:29:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
In-Reply-To: <to13ef3kf4vh17@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108200027170.5319-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Stephen Boulet wrote:

> Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for
> recent code red queries:
>
>   [snip]
>
> Hmmm. I have a list with 873 entries. Now what do I do with it?  ;)
>
> -- Stephen

Certainly the thing NOT to do is to contact the owners of the offending sites,
as all that will do is send a signal to the feds saying "Please break down my
door, confiscate my equipment, and throw me in jail" :P

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From tom1 at redant.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Aug  8 06:34:25 2001
From: tom1 at redant.freeserve.co.uk (Tom Huckstep)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 10:34:25 +0000
Subject: Dynamic graphs under gtk or other widget set
Message-ID: <9kr12v$hs3$1@s1.uklinux.net>

Hello,

I would like to write a mathematical function graph
plotting program in python with the capability to draw
`dynamic' graphs.  I'll explain what I mean by dynamic:

In order to plot functions of two variables, one variable,
x, say, will change as you move along the x-axis, but the
other, a, say, will change with time.  A graph of
f(x,a) = ax will be represented as a straight line that
gets steeper with time.

If possible I would like to do this with gtk, because I
would like to modify a program I have found that already
plots `static' graphs, but if this isn't possible I'd be
happy to use any widget set.

My first thought, after browsing through some tkinter
demos (notably brownian.py), was to use threading to
implement this.  I gave it a quick try, but it didn't
seem to work, probably because of the way that the rest
of the code is organised.

Has anyone any ideas of a convenient way to manage this?

Tom

P.S.  If anyone knows of a program (in python or
otherwise) that already implements this it would be handy
to find out about it.


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Aug 28 19:45:18 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:45:18 +0200
Subject: Concatenating iterators
Message-ID: <9mhaee$brn$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

Is there a standard way of concatenating iterators
yet? It just seems to be useful in some cases:

for foo in iter1 + iter2: bar() # Illegal...

I know there are some homegrown wrapper-iterators
out there; I just wondered if I've missed something
completely standard...

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 31 22:18:23 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:18:23 -0400
Subject: User preference file in Win32
References: <9m5e1i$1khl$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <rwXj7.14365$Wg1.197725@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com>

"Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:9m5e1i$1khl$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> Hi,
>
> Sorry, this is not 100% Pythonic question, but as I'm in process to write
a
> Unix/Win32 app.
> I need to know where it's usual to store user preference (not in a
registry
> please) files for an app for Win32 applications (98,ME,NT,2000) as in
Unix,
> we may use something like "~/.myapp.conf"
>
> Thanks in advance
>
Look at the ConfigParser module for routines to read and write Windows .ini
style files.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From hnowak at cuci.nl  Mon Aug 13 08:04:31 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:04:31 +0200
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
Message-ID: <3B80F7C7@twigger.nl>

>I know that this is a redundant question.
>I started off with Tkinter from
>Programming Python book ( explained in detail).
>I liked it.
>
>Then i stumbled across wxPython and the kind of qoutes/comments i found on
>the web site were so impressive.
>for eg :
>
>"Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
>
>-- Eric S. Raymond
>
>Am so confused???
>the docs were OK. There does'nt seem to be a book on it either :-(
>Then can anyone answer the above question:
>"Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
>:-)
>
>what s'd i be doing? I have to say here that i dont use python @ work but am
>learning out of my own interest. But w'd like to master atleast one GUI
>package.

This question has been asked and answered before, but here's my take on it.

Both GUIs have benefits and drawbacks. Tkinter ships with Python, so on most 
systems it's almost guaranteed to be there. There's also at least one book 
about it (not sure when Fredrik's book is coming out...). On the flip side, I 
found that it's often slower than wxPython, and lacks widgets/components that 
wxPython has (this is more of a personal issue, but I missed tables/grids like 
I am used to in Delphi, to name something). 
wxPython has (AFAIK) no books yet, but comes with an impressive demo program, 
that gets you started easily; there's also the wxWindows documentation 
(although this isn't always 100% applicable to wxPython; some methods are 
different, etc.).
An important drawback (I think) is that wxPython will always be out later than 
new Python versions. If 2.2 final comes out, some time will pass before a 
version of wxPython arrives that will support this. This is inevitable because 
development on the new wxPython version cannot really start until the official 
Python is out. However, this means that you cannot immediately upgrade to a 
new Python version without breaking your GUI code (unless you keep the older 
Python version around, I guess).

I am currently using wxPython for my GUI projects, for the reasons mentioned 
above. That is not to say I will never do anything in Tkinter in the future, 
but currently it has my favor.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From tomh at optiscan.com  Tue Aug 14 03:02:56 2001
From: tomh at optiscan.com (Tom Harris)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:02:56 +1000
Subject: Another two examples of using changing classes
Message-ID: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F079509@uluru2.optiscan.com.au>

Fascinating, Captain	.

Coming from a C++ background I did this in Python by a class having a member
instance of a proxy class that was changed to according to what it was
talking to (like example 2). Pattern junkies refer to this as the State
pattern, the Patterns Book defines it as "Allow an object to alter its
behaviour when its internal state changes. The object will appear to change
its state.". In Python I can now see how to code this by the class _really_
changing its class at runtime. The involved example in the Patterns book on
the implementation of the State pattern becomes a few lines in Python.

This is similar to the Python implementation of the Factory pattern which
collapses it to a single line. Should Python be known as "The language where
Patterns become Idioms?"

 Tom Harris, Software Engineer
 Optiscan Imaging, 15-17 Normanby Rd, Notting Hill, Melbourne, Vic 3168,
Australia
 email tomh at optiscan.com     ph +61 3 9538 3333  fax +61 3 9562 7742

This email may contain confidential information. If you have received this
email in error, please delete it immediately,and inform us of the mistake by
return email. Any form of reproduction, or further dissemination of this
email is strictly prohibited.
Also, please note that opinions expressed in this email are those of the
author, and are not necessarily those of OptiScan Pty Ltd



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	itamarst at yahoo.com [SMTP:itamarst at yahoo.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 14 August 2001 8:26
> To:	python-list at python.org
> Subject:	Another two examples of using changing classes
> 
> Changing classes at runtime can be useful at times, and I've done it
> myself at times. And since Twisted uses it and I intend to use Twisted
> for my server architecture, that's a 3rd use as well.
> 
> 
> == 1 ==
> I have a proxy class that forwards network requests to a remote
> server. When it gets disconnected, it still needs to respond to
> commands, albeit with failure responses.
> 
> However, if a certains commands are given to the instance it can
> reconnect and start working normally again.
> 
> The other way to do this is to have two classes - Connected and
> Disconnected, and the instance switches between the classes to change
> the way it works. Doing this without changing classes would require
> having a frontend instance and a changing backend instance, and double
> the number of function calls done with every operation.
> 
> 
> == 2 ==
> Consider a (SocketServer) network server that supports multiple
> protocols on the same port. When a connection is opened the first
> message tells the handler what protocol to use, and the handler then
> changes its class to the appropriate handler class.



From tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br  Wed Aug 15 14:28:08 2001
From: tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br (Tatiana Evers)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:28:08 -0300
Subject: Threads problem
Message-ID: <005101c125b8$08264320$39a5100a@cg22898>

Ok.
Thanks to answer my mail.
I have already used this macros, but I didn?t get sucess. If you
don?t mind, I am sending a little module that explain my intentions.
I creat a dll to import in python prompt. See below:
>>import PyGlut
>>PyGlut.Creat("anything")

Then, python trigger glut module but don?t return.
When I close glut window, python finished too.
I need to keep python together glut at same time.

Any Thought?

/**************************************************************/
> I think I answered this already, but as I see it posted
> again...:
>
> "Tatiana Evers" <tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br> writes:
> """
> I am working with Python API/C.
>
> I have a module in C that call a Glut function. Glut function call
Glut
> MainLoop and this block my interactive python program.
>
> So, I though in create a new thread to solve this, but I didn't have
sucess.
> Any idea ?
> """
> Are you using the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS &c in
your
> C code?  If you aren't, the Python GIL (Global Interpreter
> Lock) is blocking your multithreading attempts from being
> effective anyway.
>
>
> Alex




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> The following section of this message contains a file attachment
> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
>
>    ---- File information -----------
>      File:  PyGlutdlls.zip
>      Date:  15 Aug 2001, 15:12
>      Size:  24531 bytes.
>      Type:  ZIP-archive
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> The following section of this message contains a file attachment
> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
>
>    ---- File information -----------
>      File:  OpenGlut.h
>      Date:  15 Aug 2001, 14:51
>      Size:  2259 bytes.
>      Type:  Program-source
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> The following section of this message contains a file attachment
> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
>
>    ---- File information -----------
>      File:  module.cpp
>      Date:  15 Aug 2001, 14:51
>      Size:  1202 bytes.
>      Type:  Program-source
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PyGlutdlls.zip
Type: application/x-compressed
Size: 24531 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010815/40068e39/attachment.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: OpenGlut.h
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 2259 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010815/40068e39/attachment.obj>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: module.cpp
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 1202 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010815/40068e39/attachment-0001.obj>

From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Sat Aug 25 20:18:17 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:18:17 -0400
Subject: get the output of a cmd via popen2
Message-ID: <9m9f3p$11ggd$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
  I think I'm doing the right thing, but it does'nt seem to be working.

I have a command which I want to run from a Python script and I want to 
capture the output. So I do,

i,o = os.popen2(cmd)

where cmd is the string that represents the command. But on printing o all 
I get is an object representation like: 

<open file '(fdopen)', mode 'r' at 0x810d9f8>

Not the output of the program.

Any suggestions as to whats going wrong and how to fix it?

TIA
-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 26 04:22:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:22:10 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEBPLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Sheila King]
> Thanks. I don't have a copy of MSVC 6, so it is hard for me to find the
> information on this.

It's almost impossible, alas.  Here are the MS _locking docs (you'll
probably have to paste this URL back together by hand):

<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore98/h
tml/_crt__locking.asp>

> This past week I spent a good hour or so at the microsoft.com's
> developers site, searching for more definitive info. I really didn't
> find anything that helped *me*, but that could be just because it's
> *me*.

I'm afraid an hour is nothing, Sheila -- there are gigabytes of info
available there, and it can take months just to become comfortable finding
your way around it.

> I've been pouring over the Active State site, as well. The win32
> extensions do, apparently, provide access to the LockFile and LockFileEx
> functions.
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65203
>
> It's just that I was hoping to accomplish this without requiring the use
> of the win32 extensions. (Maybe it's silly of me, but I tend to want to
> avoid requiring others to install stuff to use the code.)

Sure!  You need to understand, though, that Python is coded in C, and C is
of no help here:  C defines *nothing* about file locking.  That means
there's nothing Python can build on cross-platform either.  Even if the only
thing you cared about were Linux systems, you could spend many weeks
learning all the subtleties involved with file-locking on it alone.  It's a
mess.

You're trying to solve a very difficult problem.  I don't know whether the
recipe you found is reliable, but years of experience tell me that anything
that short won't work as intended in all cases (for example, I see the
recipe builds on flock on Unixish boxes, and that may be useless if a
network file system gets involved).

> ...
> OK, first of all, thank you for the discussion above. It gives me a
> tremendous insight into what I've been doing wrong and how to handle the
> problem.
>
> Second of all, I feel that I am at a tremendous disadvantage, as I don't
> have access to the MS documentation that you keep referring to. Here's
> what I have access to:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/msvcrt-files.html

You'll find that the MS page I linked to above doesn't say much more than
that.  And we're in an impossible bind here:  the MS docs are copyrighted,
so we can't just reproduce them in the Python docs.  In addition, we don't
get to see MS's source code, so the only way we have to fill in the gaps is
the same way *you* have:  try things at random, see what happens, and try to
*guess* whether that's reliable.  This is impossible, so we shuffle the
MS-specific C functions into their own module, give it an unlikely name, and
say "here it is, if you want it -- but you're on your own".  And you are,
and there's no realistic alternative.

> ...
> (Is everyone who tries to use Python under Windows expected
> to have access to the MS VC 6 documentation?

Of course not.  But "msvcrt" means MicroSoft Visual C++ RunTime, and if you
use *that* obscure module, then, yes, you had better know what you're doing.
msvcrt is a module for people comfortable with MSVC; it's not suitable for
others.  Indeed, there's *no* function in that module I'd recommend for
non-expert use.

> ...
> What you see above is the confusion of someone who is trying to learn
> about file locking and handling concurrent access at the same time that
> she is attempting to learn how Python handles it AND how to do it cross
> platform. No more. No less.

Python doesn't handle file locking.  Perl pretends to <wink>.  If I were you
I'd try another approach (for example, if your program has control over
access to the files of interest, you can invent your own locking
*abstraction* in software and leave painful OS-specific gimmicks out of it
entirely).




From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 12 21:17:42 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:17:42 -0700
Subject: [Package] FontTools: a font manipulation library
References: <20010810112905-r01010700-8b0dfba3-0910-010c@10.0.0.21> <mailman.997542017.13832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2gaentcf9is8tr2al07ckbsbn45f4l2ea3@4ax.com>

"Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> wrote:
>
>When my mailserver tries to send mail to the list, it gets this back:
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>... while talking to mail.sourceforge.net.:
>>>> DATA
><<< 550 rejected: Cannot accept mail from
><chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> because your server doesn't have a
>postmaster account: Response from newcenturycomputers.net [208.234.11.243]
>was "550 <postmaster at newcenturycomputers.net>... User unknown" when checking
>for existence of a postmaster mailbox. RFC 822 section 6.3 (which you have
>to abide by if you send and receive Email) states that you are required to
>have a postmaster mailbox that is routed to the person responsible for mail
>(http://www.rfc822.com/).  We need to be able to contact you at the
>postmaster address to resolve potential problems if need be before we can
>accept your mail. Please create a postmaster account at your site
>554 <fonttools-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net>... Service unavailable
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Sent to SourceForge:
>
>My ISP services the "postmaster" account via a sendmail alias.

No, it doesn't.

>This is common.  VRFY requests do not return information about the 
>account as it isn't an "account" per se.

It's more than that.  The "550" error is coming from a RCPT TO: command,
not from a VRFY.  No, your ISP simply does not have a "postmaster", at
least for that domain.  That violates RFC822.

>I am unable to join any mailing lists (in the sense of sending to them) due
>to the 550 error returned.
>
>I understand why you are doing this, in the sense that you want to ensure
>that you can contact the ISP.  YOU CAN CONTACT THE ISP at the postmaster
>account!  JUST FINE.  But VRFY won't say so.

I was not able to send mail to "postmaster at newcenturycomputers.net".  It
failed with a 550 user unknown.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 17 01:12:47 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 22:12:47 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997852703.12051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9li94f$qkm$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997852703.12051.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>Even if you're an historian (and so have an *excuse* to demand that the
>world sate your idle curiosity <wink>), you'll learn much more about that by
>taking an active role in a current discussion than by excavating Usenet for
>the bones of old ones.  Even better, write a PEP and get a first-hand view
>of what life is like from the other side.
>
>but-first-invest-in-a-high-capacity-flame-resistant-mail-reader-ly y'rs

OTOH, I was amazed at how little traffic PEP 6 generated...
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Nothing fails like prayer"  --bumper snicker


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 06:19:45 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:19:45 +0100
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net>
 <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <1rjctgABtPe7Ewxc@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

...
>> I've just read http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html :
...
I've been reading this as well and some of the peps that go into it.

I don't seem to be able to understand all the get/set attribute stuff. 

Is the thing returned by getset only applicable to instance attributes. 

It appears on the face of it to be an object which traps lhs and rhs
reference. If that is the case would it not be better to provide
mechanisms to trap these references on all kinds of objects.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is can getset be used to create a
readonly module level global or can it only be used for attributes.
-- 
Robin Becker


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Thu Aug 23 22:27:06 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:27:06 +0100
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <mailman.998632296.6398.python-list@python.org> <7xg0ai9d6q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m56of$k32$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Paul Rubin:
>So if
>I'm asking for anything, it's just that those directing the evolution
>of the language keep the thought in mind that Python will be compiled
>some day, and avoid designing things into it that are excessively
>interpreter-dependent.

 - Guido has already said
] I guess I have a bit of a hidden agenda: Python is more dynamic than
] the language I *wanted* to design.  Some of the dynamicism was simply
] a implementation trick.  Some of the dynamicism is getting in the way
] of optimizing code, because the optimizer can never prove that certain
] variables won't be changed.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston1.va.h
ome.com&output=gplain
(Uggh! Any way to get short URLs for groups.google links?)

  - There are two major implementations of Python - one in C and
the other in Java.  That helps reduce both interpreter- and
and implementation-dependencies.

So your concerns are, I believe, being kept in mind.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug  5 23:04:28 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 03:04:28 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <nGfb7.73145$EP6.17247175@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <kr5rmtsh1gl6api2u3nks4p38q3n9sqsav@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0Pnb7.75011$EP6.17742095@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kr5rmtsh1gl6api2u3nks4p38q3n9sqsav at 4ax.com...

> 1 is not equivalent to 1.0


Equivalent -  common definition: equal in value, as in: $1 has the
same value as $1.00.
Equivalent - technical definition: isomorphic images of each other, as
in: 1 and 1.0 are matched by the unique isomorphism between integers
and a subset of the reals.

Terry J. Reedy





From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Aug  8 07:20:27 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 13:20:27 +0200
Subject: Which XML library to use?
References: <1136f745.0108060802.50812472@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4itfyx0g4.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers) writes:

> We could probably continue to use the PyXML 0.5.x release, except
> we've found it won't work very well in Windows with Python 2.1.  (It
> seems to work fine on Unix...)

I'm surprised that it does, because there is an xml package in Python
2.1, so your PyXML 0.5 installation should not be visible.

> 1) Update our code to use the XML libraries now built-in to Python 2.1
> (a non-trivial task.)

That is what I would recommend to do.

> 2) Update our code to use the PyXML 0.6.x release.  I see that there
> is a Win32 release of this library compatible with Python 2.1. 
> However, it looks like the interface is different enough from the 0.5
> release to be just as much work as option #1.

That is probably the case indeed.

> 3) Somehow hack PyXML 0.5 to work with Python2.1 on Win32.  We would
> not have to change any of our legacy code.

At a minimum, you have to hack Python to remove the xml package, or
hack PyXML 0.5 to rename the xml package, in which case you'd have to
change your legacy code. There might be other things where 0.5 fails
to cooperate with 2.1 as well, e.g. that you get two copies of
pyexpat.

> Basically, I'm trying to decide between the first two options and need
> some help.
> Which is "recommended" set of XML libraries? The ones now included
> with Python 2.1.1 or the PyXML 0.6.6 release?

You did not explain much what features exactly your application
uses. If the SAX interfaces on top of pyexpat, or minidom, is enough
for your needs, I recommend to go with the code in the Python
libraries. If you need a full DOM, or xmlproc, I recommend to use
PyXML 0.6.6.

> It looks like the PyXML interface has changed significantly from 0.5.x
> versions, so it wouldn't be a drop-in replacement for us.  Since it
> looks like I'll be making extensive changes to our code for a new API
> no matter what, the question becomes "which set of XML libraries is
> more stable / 'better'?"

The APIs of the various DOM implementations all follow the Python
library documentation, as far as that is applicable, so it is not a
too large effort to port from, say, minidom to 4DOM.

Regards,
Martin


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 04:10:32 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:10:32 +0200
Subject: child process
References: <3B89F556.70500@senux.com.NOSPAM>
Message-ID: <9mcv9p01csd@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Brian Lee" <senux at senux.com.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:3B89F556.70500 at senux.com.NOSPAM...
> Hi,
>
> I made a child process by fork function. When the mother
> process is killed, the child process is killed also.
>
> But I want child process not to be killed even the mother
> process is killed. How can I child process run independently?

You appear to want to fork a "daemon" child-process on
some kind of Unix-like platform; then, see Herrmann's
recipe on the Python Cookbook, at:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66012

Hermann gives working code; to understand what's going on,
you really need Stevens' "Advanced Programming in the Unix
Environment" book (an EXCELLENT book, by the way).


Alex





From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug  8 14:32:00 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:32:00 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a> 
 <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
 <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Ben.Altman wrote:

> Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> >
> > > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to (or
> > at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a Python
> > environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
> > second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
> > code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody know
> > of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables Python
> > stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
>
> What about nedit.

Aha, another one, so far we have:

	Emacs,
	Vim,
	Alpha,
	Jed,
	Nedit,

that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?


-- 
     Marge: ``But I'm still woried about those starving children...''
     Homer: ``Don't worry marge! There with God now.''
               -- The Simpsons

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com  Sun Aug 12 13:06:03 2001
From: wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com (wim delvaux)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:06:03 GMT
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com> <9l5jiq0lf8@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B76745B.714278C9@adaptiveplanet.com> <049301c1233c$e98fa640$0300a8c0@arthur>
Message-ID: <3B76B9D2.8EEC8815@adaptiveplanet.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Hello Wim,
>
> > Question remains.  How can I get access to the PyString_Type variable
> > (buffer) declared in the extension module (if I remember)
> > for those abstract objects, if you do not know the name of the buffer
> > but only the name of the type.
>
> No general way -- the extension module needs to supply a suitable .h
> and/or some other C API.  Normally, extension modules make everything
> static (visible only within their own .C source files), so that may not be
> directly possible.
>
> Presumably however there is a work-around.  Doesn't the extension
> module expose (to Python) some attribute which is this type object
> that you seek?  You could get at it from C.  Or else, can you somehow
> get hold of an object, ANY object, of that type you're interested in
> (somehow exposed by the extension module, or maybe the module
> exposes a factory function that you can call to get a sample object
> once at the start of your own code)?  If so, PyObject_Type(...) on
> that sample object will get you the type-object you seek.
>
> Incidentally, PyObject_IsInstance(PyObject* obj, PyObject* type)
> is generally a better way to typecheck than checking for type objects
> identity.  In Python 2.1 it's basically the same, but in 2.2 and later,
> when inheritance becomes possible from builtin-types and extension
> types, checking with isinstance is almost always better (any subclass
> will satisfy that test, rather than just the base-type).

    Where does that PyObject_isInstance get the second argument from.  Is
that again that PyString_Type pointer or somewhere else ?

    W

>
>
> Alex
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From patrick.fichou at galactica.it  Mon Aug 27 06:06:23 2001
From: patrick.fichou at galactica.it (Patrick)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:06:23 +0200
Subject: GMPY module
Message-ID: <9md612$unr$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it>

Hi, I'm trying to use GMPY module but it does not seem to work !?
When I import the GMPY module in Python IDE, I get an error message telling
me that one DLL is missing 'what DLL ?)... Can someone help ?
I use a 2.1 AtiveState version of python 'as it comes from thes ActiveState'
site,
I have downloaded the 0.9 version of GMPY and copied the GMPY.PYD and
PYSYMBOLICEXT.PYD files in my \Python21\lib directory...
Help please,
Patrick




From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Tue Aug  7 14:01:22 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:01:22 GMT
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
Message-ID: <3b702bb1.247314399@news.laplaza.org>

Can someone give me advice on how to have several versions of Python
coexist nicely on a Windows box?  Or to be mnore precise, how can I
install a new experimental version of Python without messing up my
existing working setup?

I haven't felt motivated to do this on a Windows box previously and
it's really no problem on UNIX and cousins which is where I've done
this kind of stuff before. 

But things change, so I'm working more on Win2k at the moment... I
installed 2.2a1 and the installer updated all the registry entries to
say that was the current version, and I had to go fiddle by hand to
set it back so that the default (file associations and other things)
was 2.1.  Is there a better way?  Looks like this release cycle I'm
going to be trying out new things as soon as the alphas and betas
release and it would be nice to avoid the hassle.

Mats

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From bokr at accessone.com  Sat Aug 18 20:49:08 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:49:08 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3b7f0ace.78190622@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:06:18 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]

>That ought to hold the string, and is confirmed by
> >>> len(s)
> 27294
>
>That's not the exact number of bits, so define a function like so:
           ^--necessarily           ^--if multiplied by 8
> >>> import math
> >>> def bitsin(x):
> ...     return math.frexp(eval(hex(x)[:3]))[1]+4*(len(hex(x))-4)
> ...
> >>> bitsin(7**77777L)
> 218348
Of course you wouldn't do hex(x) twice if you weren't interactively
building up the expression ;-)
Maybe
 >>> def bitsin(x):
 ...     h = hex(long(x))
 ...     return math.frexp(eval(h[:3]))[1]+4*(len(h)-4)



From sa at bayt.net  Thu Aug  9 07:58:40 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 04:58:40 -0700
Subject: looking up an instance's methods
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108090358.5aa61911@posting.google.com>

F:\zen>python
ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class Person:
...     def laugh(self): pass
...     def cry(self): pass
...     def sleep(self): pass
...
>>> p = Person()
>>> p
<__main__.Person instance at 007E6B2C>
>>> p.__dict__
{}
>>> dir(p)
[]
>>> p.__class__.__dict__
{'__doc__': None,
 '__module__': '__main__',
 'cry': <function cry at 007E6FC4>,
 'laugh': <function laugh at 007E5F44>,
 'sleep': <function sleep at 007E70AC>}
>>>

Is there any particular reason why one can't directly introspect an
instance's methods (using dir(instance) for example) without having to
call the __dict__ namespace of its class? Is this situation likely to
change in Python 2.2?

cheers,


Shakeeb


From mike-list at wakerly.com  Sat Aug 18 21:10:09 2001
From: mike-list at wakerly.com (mike wakerly)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:10:09 -0700
Subject: Function call performance timer
Message-ID: <200108190109.VAA19571@rodney.cnchost.com>

Hey All,

I've written a driver for a serial port LCD in Python. Trouble is, 
somewhere along the way, I introduced something (either in the driver or 
the front-end) that degrades performance significantly. (I can tell 
because display updates are latent.)

So, can anyone point me to some module that will let me run my program, 
and then just print perhaps, a tree of function call execution time? I'd 
like to know which function (I'm calling quite a few with recursion) is 
causing this bottleneck.

Best solution I can think of is extending pdb somehow, but I'm thinking 
surely someone has been curious about this before, probably a solution 
out there...?

Cheers,
Mike

PS: with regards to my previous query regarding threads not responding 
to events, the problem was my own error... a stray fork(), causing the 
forked process to not respond to the parent's modifications to events. 
oops!



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 03:50:13 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 00:50:13 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com> <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998482775.12377.python-list@python.org> <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9m30ue026ag@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xk7ztj3re.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> A language is a huge collection of delicate balancing acts,
> of design compromises, among many conflicting objectives,
> including handiness and minimalism.  Reducing the need for
> lambda, and thus its frequence in idiomatic Python, by an
> order of magnitude, was no doubt a motivator here:-).

Ok, it's my perverse Scheme prejudices that make me think of lambda as
natural and list comprehension as looking too much like Perl (which
after all was what I came to Python to get away from <g>).  I've never
looked at Haskell but should do so one of these days.

> Reminds me of a debate the other way 'round a few months
> ago over on comp.lang.functional, where another guy was
> utterly convinced that the addition of list comprehensions
> to Python was THE major event in the history of Python, or
> something like that... of course, he did have a Haskell
> background in that case:-).

I'm not sure what he meant by that... :)


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 10:19:30 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:19:30 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com> <7x66bkjzbj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lo5uc2g3p@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xg0ahj3hc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9mdktj02h0h@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xg0ahj3hc.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> I've started to lose interest in WinCE.  I mainly want to run on a
> Compaq IPAQ handheld, but it turns out that there's a pretty good
> Linux port for it, so I'll probably just write for that.  If and when

That should make it very easy to use GMP and gmpy then...:-).


Alex





From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Sun Aug 26 06:40:30 2001
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 18:40:30 +0800
Subject: Tkinter event loops
References: <3B8137CF.82515CD6@eegsoftware.com>
 <3b88a477.5051549@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <7i8zg7kstd.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Clarkson <support> writes:

    Mike> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:16:16 GMT, Howard Lightstone
    Mike> <howard at eegsoftware.com> wrote:

    >> How do I provide the same event handling as the mainloop method while
    >> still allowing me to "poll" other activities?
    >> 
    >> Do I use the update method or update_idletasks method or ???

    Mike> What you need is the (undocumented) createtimerhandler method.
    Mike> Look at the source code of _tkinter.c at the
    Mike> Tkapp_CreateTimerHandler code, and look at the Tk/Tcl
    Mike> documentation for Tcl_CreateTimerHandler, Tcl_DeleteTimerHandler -
    Mike> call a procedure at a given time.

If the thing that is being waited for is time, it is much simpler to just
use the after-handler (calling Misc.after).  But actually most "polls" are
polling devices, or actually files.  In these cases, one should use
Tk.tk.createfilehandler.  Look at ManPage.py of the Demo shipped with Python
to see how this is done.  One can wait for a file to become readable or
writable, of wait until an exception.

In either case, what one need to know is to invert the logic: instead of
trying to fake the main loop and do your own stuff, one should tell the main
loop that there is something waiting to be done, and then continue with the
main loop.

On the other hand, if one really need to temporarily deal with a computation
exclusively, one can call update.  Update_idletask will only run the window
(and "idle tasks"), do that if this is what you want.  This will simulate
one iteration of the event loop.

Regards,
Isaac.


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Fri Aug 10 22:34:47 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 02:34:47 GMT
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
References: <MPG.15de957b96d43b0e989691@rider>
Message-ID: <bR0d7.25727$c8.7496696@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Surial" <surial at crosswinds.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.15de957b96d43b0e989691 at rider...
> In java, you have 2 features which AFAIK are not available in Python,
> which I always assumed to be required for sandboxing:
>
> 'final':
> 'private':

> How are these points addressed in RExec? (Python's
> sandboxing environment, as I've read).

As I understand it, 'rexec' is only safe if you don't pass in any unsafe
objects.  Classes, functions, and class instances are all generally unsafe.
What you need is 'Bastion', which (as I understand it) is a safe wrapper
around an unsafe object.  I assume 'Bastion' is implemented as a C extension
type, which gives it data hiding capabilities that Python class instances
don't have.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 10:07:55 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:07:55 +0100
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk> <oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <3B7147BB.2000201@herts.ac.uk>

I just had a quick play with that, and I can't see any difference 
between your example verbatum and simply print d. How does pprint work 
and (I assume it stands for pretty print or something) how should it look?

cheers
blobby

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

>> Piotr Legiecki wrote:
> 
>>> I'v created dictionary named d={}. Its structure is like this: {key,
>>> [list]} I'd like to print all values stored in 'd'. What is the easiest
>>> way to do it?
>> 
> 
> [Mark Robinson]
> 
>> you might try something like:
> 
>> for key in d.keys():
>> 	print 'key:'
>> 	for value in d[key]:
>> 		print value
> 
> 
> It is often nice to do:
> 
>         import pprint
>         pprint.pprint(d)
> 




From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 24 06:02:08 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:02:08 +1000
Subject: I have a prob
References: <20010824035741.14313.00005094@mb-mi.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B862620.F2EDD7E9@student.gu.edu.au>

Patio87 wrote:
> 
> I am like 2 hours into learning Tk/tcl and I keep getting this error
>  first i'll show you the code
> 
> import _tkinter
> import sys
> win = _TK()
> button = Button(win, text = "Goodbye", command = sys.exit)
> button.pack()
> mainloop()
> 
> thats the code heres the error
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python21/s", line 3, in ?
>     win = _TK()
> NameError: name '_TK' is not defined
> 
> please help me im still learning python so be easy on the vocabulary thanks

import Tkinter
....
win = Tkinter.Tk()
....
win.mainloop()

or (Really NOT suggested. It makes things crowded in your current
module)
from Tkinter import *
.........
win = Tk()
<as above>
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From rob-news at pyrite.org  Thu Aug  2 23:27:56 2001
From: rob-news at pyrite.org (Rob Tillotson)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 22:27:56 -0500
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com> <el7ck9.4ek.ln@127.0.0.1> <slrn9mk03n.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87puadbz5v.fsf@mally.pyrite.org>

carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink) writes:
> Not directly, but the preinstall and postinstall scripts in the
> archives are (I've read) Python scripts.

While I would love to confirm this, I'm sad to report that it is not
true.  In fact, nearly all of the scripts found in Debian packages are
shell scripts, with a few exceptions in that other 'P' language.

Debian policy allows the "scripts" to be anything executable, but to
my knowledge nobody has done control scripts for their packages in
Python yet.  (I haven't examined every package, of course, but I can't
find any examples on my own systems, even among packages directly
related to Python.)  I suspect it would probably be met with
skepticism, since it seems fairly unlikely that the same tasks could
not be accomplished in a shell script, or at least in Perl (which is
part of the base system and considered "essential").

As far as I know, neither apt nor dpkg use Python in any way.  Until
recently Python wasn't even of 'standard' priority... you certainly
won't break anything important by installing a different version.

--Rob




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 07:52:57 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:52:57 -0400
Subject: Error on mimetools?
References: <9k368v$a8q$1@news.uit.no>
Message-ID: <3wvb7.17514$5j7.1150130@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Arnulf Heimsbakk" <arnulf at spirea.net> wrote in message
news:9k368v$a8q$1 at news.uit.no...
> I'm trying to decode a mime64 message in python with mimetools. I have
> tested the "body" with windows winzip. It decodes correctly. When I try to
> decode it in python, it do not decode correctly. I get a file with
slightly
> increased size. The heading of the file seems the same, but when I test
this
> with a jpg file - the file gets corrupted when decoded with python's
> mimetools.
>
> Is there a error in mimetools? Or is my approach entirly incorrect. My
code
> is below:
>
> out = StringIO()
> mimetools.decode(StringIO(self.body), out,  'base64')
> return out.getvalue()
>
> I preciate any advise or help I can get.

The body of an RFC822/2822 message with attachments is a compound object.
Have you first extracted the particular component you want from the body, or
are you applying the .decode() method to the whole body?

Here's some code (using a non-standard mailhandler module, but you should be
able to use mailbox for your purposes) that shows you how it's done:

import mailhandler
import multifile, mimetools, sys

MFILE = "mailbox.txt"


class mailStream:

    def __init__(self, filename):
        try:
            self.fp = open(filename, "r")
            print "+++Opened", filename
        except IOError:
            sys.exit("Could not open mailfile '%s'" % filename)
        self.mb = mailhandler.MimeMailbox(self.fp)

    def next(self):
        ptr = self.fp.tell()        # save start point
        msg = self.msg = self.mb.next()   # read next from mailbox
        atts = self.atts = []
        if msg:
            boundary = msg.getparam("boundary")
            if boundary:
                mf = multifile.MultiFile(self.fp)
                                    # create Multifile
                mf.push(boundary)   # save for recognition
                self.fp.seek(ptr)   # point to multifile start
                while mf.next():    # each message
                    atts.append(mimetools.Message(mf))
                                    # read up to next boundary
                mf.pop()            # restore previous
            return msg, atts        # return message and attachments
        else:
            return None, None       # no message

m = 0
ms = mailStream(MFILE)      # create the message stream

while 1:                    # forever
    msg, atts = ms.next()   # get next message
    if msg is None:         # quit if there's nothing
        break
    m += 1                  # bump count
    if atts:
        a = 0
        print "Mail %d: multipart with %d attachments" % (m, len(atts))
        for att in atts:
            a += 1
            print "Att", a, "Type: ", att.gettype(), \
                    "encoding:", att.getencoding(),
            print "File:", att.getparam("name")
    else:
        print "Mail %d: plain message" % m, "from", msg['from']
    print "---------------------------------------------"

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 08:34:10 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:34:10 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <9kp3hs026g6@enews1.newsguy.com> <1028525.ia2DhmKxfE@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <9krbk102chs@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:1028525.ia2DhmKxfE at lunix.schabi.de...
    ...
> >> fp.read_line
> >> s := fp.last_string
> >>
> >> I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety
> >> or not.
> >
> > To me, it seems cleverly designed to maximize threading
> > problems/race-conditions/horrid-bugs.
>
> Only when you consider that in a Python/C/Java-like
>   s = fp.read_line()
> the internal implementation of fp.read_line() is guaranteed to be
> atomary in execution.

Atomic.  Yes, exactly: any kind of iterator designed to be
used in a threaded environment can make its own operations
atomic -- and that's exactly how it should be, in the holy
names of Encapsulation, Information Hiding, and so on.  The
crazy idea of splitting a single operation into two because
'something that changes state MUST NOT return a value' rules
out such productive encapsulation & information hiding.


> This may be the case in stackles pyhton green threads, and in java
> using synchronized, but is not the general case.

The point is not 'the general case', is that keeping the
logical unit 'advance state and tell me the new state' as
ONE operation *ENABLES* atomicity to be encapsulatedly
implemented and offered if and when that's needed.

Python's built-in file objects currently do NOT ensure
atomicity (they do Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS &c within the
.readline implementation), but that's documented.  I
can wrap such an object into an object which does
assure atomicity, or provide my own C-coded object
that does so.  If client-code was forever calling
two methods when meaning really one, that would not
be feasible.

> The most often solution is that read_line() internally does some
> locking, or specifies in the documentation that only one thread at a
> time uses it.

There's a world of difference between an object that
is designed for multi-threaded use, and encapsulates
its own locking (or whatever) internally, and one
which isn't (and documents the fact, and requires
client-code to handle all the locking chores).  Only
atomic (and therefore, a fortiori, UNITARY) operations
to change-state-AND-return-value *enable* the former
(the latter is always a possibility, and quite
appropriate when use from multiple threads is not
an important design constraint).

Forbidding such operations, as Meyers would, forbids
precious classes such as Python's wonderful Queue.
Mind-blowing crazy, if you ask me.


Alex





From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Mon Aug 13 18:21:39 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:21:39 -0700
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <3b725bb5.10702165@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <3b726c12_4@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <00eb01c12448$4503b280$5514b43f@kens>

>>> class C:
...    def func1(self):
...        print 'executing func1'
...    def func2(self):
...        print 'executing func2'
...    def func3(self):
...        print 'executing func3'
...
>>> obj = C()
>>> funclist = ['func1', 'func2', 'func3']
>>> for f in funclist:
...  r = getattr(obj, f)()
...
executing func1
executing func2
executing func3

- Ken Seehof
kseehof at neuralintegrator.com
www.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof

> Mike Clarkson wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >     I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want
to
> > call on an object.  How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
> > function call?  Here is an example
> >
> > funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
> > x = len(funclist)
> > y = 0
> > while y < x:
> >     value = testobj.funclist[y]
> >     y = y +1
> >
> > This way I could grow the list of functions to be called without coding
> > more like the way I am doing it now. I would like to avoid doing the
> > following:
> >
> > value = testobj.func1()
> > value = testobj.func2()
> > value = testobj.func3()
> >
> > Any help would be great.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >     Mark Sass





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 13:39:24 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:39:24 GMT
Subject: Adding Comments when checking in from VSS in Pythonwin
References: <8q8j7.70054$54.3713716@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3b8d1dd4.1875843@news.t-online.de> <wf9j7.71171$54.3740007@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b8d283e.4541968@news.t-online.de>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:05:58 -0400, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>Now I can use the recently-posted checkin modification too. Just need to
>work out how to get VSS to ask for a checkin comment. Or have Pythonwin do
>it and pass it through...

In the patch, look at the line

item.Checkin(None, fileName)

"None" is the comment...




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Aug 27 15:10:25 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:10:25 -0700
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution 
 needed
References: <mailman.998892039.9270.python-list@python.org> <3b8a7483.604933858@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B8A9B21.A06CC684@ccvcorp.com>


Bengt Richter wrote:

> Or were you thinking of the subset of problems unaffected
> by byte length (yet perhaps checkable with a length number) ?

One example that leaps immediately to mind--text vs binary mode LF/CRLF mangling.
This has a *very* high probability of killing any executable regardless of its
length.  And yes, the solution to this specific example is simply user education,
but still...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Aug 11 02:35:25 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:35:25 -0000
Subject: redirect python output + extension type with own print method = FAILS
References: None <e71960c5.0108102057.28ba9f7a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <997511725.462302@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug):

| BOTTOMLINE: Why when python's output is redirected by overriding
| sys.stdout, would a user-defined type's print method not be
| accessible?

BOTTOMLINE ANSWER:  If you want to say "print xxx" and have the
output go through your stdout - you don't really want a "print"
method, you want a "repr" method.  No I/O, just return a string
(as in PyString_FromString().)  The "print" statement does all the I/O.

SIDE NOTE:  The effect of replacing stdout is purely at the Python
level, affecting only those Python functions that look up sys.stdout
and deal with it as a file object.  C library I/O, to "stdout" or
wherever, does not take notice of this and will still go where it
went before.

There are other ways to redirect output that do affect output at all
levels, at least on UNIX and similar platforms, but that uses a lower
level abstraction in the operating system's concept of a device, so
your choice of redirections is naturally limited to devices.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 08:04:30 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:04:30 +0200
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net> <840bdd8f.0108080216.6dffdbc9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kr9se02ahj@enews1.newsguy.com>

"xauau" <xauau at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:840bdd8f.0108080216.6dffdbc9 at posting.google.com...
    ...
> def permute(a):
>     if len(a) == 0: return [[]]
>     return [[x] + y for x in a[0] for y in permute(a[1:])]
>
> Actually, it needs all of three lines if you count the func def ;-)
>
> Just for fun, does anyone know how to move the 'if' into the list
> comprehension to make it a one-liner?

It's easy to oneline this function's body _without_ moving
the test inside the list comprehension (it's a long line
so my newsreader might break it, but it's logically one):

return (len(a)==0 and [[]]) or [[x]+y for x in a[0] for y in permute(a[1:])]


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug 12 17:07:46 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:07:46 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: string bug/oddity?
In-Reply-To: <20010812204743.1194.qmail@web3807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130106140.5074-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Oktay Safak wrote:

>Hi everyboby,
>
>I am new to Python (and programming), so after reading
>and studying the tutorial by Guido last night, I
>decided to do some hands on experiments with the
>interpreter and came across a quite strange behavior.
>
>First I constructed a dictionary a. Here it is:
>
>>>> a
>{'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
>>>> for x in a.keys():
>	if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
>	else: print x, a[x]


Maybe

        if type(a[x]) != type("string"): print x+repr(a[x])

will solve your problem?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 12, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Is it possible to feel gruntled?" _/




From rjwagner at writeme.com  Wed Aug  1 13:16:37 2001
From: rjwagner at writeme.com (Rick Wagner)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 10:16:37 -0700
Subject: Embedding problem, undefined symbols
Message-ID: <5b9e8160.0108010916.1d74d657@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to embed Python (v1.5.2) in a C application and having
trouble with importing modules.  The C app compiles fine, but the
Python interpreter chokes when it gets the import command.  Here's a
simplified file that shows the problem.

File "test.c":

#include "Python.h"
int main( int argc, char* argv[] )
{
	Py_Initialize();
	PyRun_SimpleString( "import math" );
	return 0;
}

I compile with the following command (on a Linux, Redhat 6.2ish
system):

gcc -Wall -o test test.c /usr/lib/python1.5/config/libpython1.5.a
-I/usr/include/python1.5/ -ldl -lpthread

The output I get is:

  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: /usr/lib/python1.5/lib-dynload/mathmodule.so: undefined
symbol: fabs

Sorry if this is a newbie question, but I scoured the FAQ and
newsgroup archives and couldn't find a working solution.  Any help is
appreciated.

Rick Wagner


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Aug 13 16:39:10 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:39:10 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <9l8saq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg> <3B77FF02.F2B5A90@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3B783AEE.D04F9D61@ccvcorp.com>


Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
>
> >     self.state = 1 - self.state
> >
> > ;-)
>
> Why not just
>
>         self.state = not self.state
>

Because these constructs are limited to representing only two states (0
and 1), whereas the original construct was easily expandable to an
arbitrary number of states, even though only two were shown for example
purposes.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 21 12:42:18 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:42:18 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation????
In-Reply-To: <to4utvgqi9jp94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108212039030.20609-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Maan M. Hamze wrote:

>While working on a Python CGI script I ran into the following:
>Assume I have a form with a Text Input element.  The element has a name, but
>I chose not to set its value, or to set value to "" (empty).
>I import CGI module and define:  Test_Form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>1.  PythonWin documentation of Python states the following:
>Form fields containing empty strings are ignored and do not appear in the
>dictionary; to keep such values, provide the optional "keep_blank_values"
>argument when creating the FieldStorage instance.
>Question:  How do you provide this argument?
>Test_Form=cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values)??  This is not working.

OK. Trying this:

>>> import os
>>> os.environ['QUERY_STRING']="aaa=1&b=&c=12"
>>> Test_Form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>>> Test_Form.keys()
['aaa', 'c']
>>> Test_Form = cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1)
>>> Test_Form.keys()
['aaa', 'b', 'c']

I can't see any inconsitencies...
nb. the way keep_blank_values are given (it's a named argument).

>Ok!  I am not going to provide this argument.  So, the Text Input element
>that I left empty and had not provided a vlaue for should NOT make it into
>FieldStorage() if user does not type some characters in it.  Right?  I tried
>it.  It does not make it.
>Even if I provide a value of " " (is " " an empty string??)
>
>2.  BUT, read on:
>check http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/sd99east/sld041.htm  Slide # 40
><form method="POST" action="http://host.com/cgi-bin/test.py">
>Your first name: <input type="text" name="firstname">
><submit button goes here>
><input type="hidden" name="session" value="1f9a2">
></form>

You can

>Ok!  So here it is, a Text Input element with no value.  From the
>documentation above in 1., this element should not be in FieldStorage unless
>one types in something.
>Now, move into Slide 41:
> print "Content-type: text/html\n"
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()     # parse query
> if form.has_key("firstname")  and  form["firstname"].value != "":
>      print "Hello", form["firstname"].value
>else:
>      print "Error! Please enter first name."
>
>Of interest is:   if form.has_key("firstname")  and  form["firstname"].value
>!= ""
>How come we are checking for the key AND that the vlaue of the key is not
>""?  Is not that code assuming that a non-empty string can be included in

Good programs are not relying on such a subtlety as default
for keepblankvalues.

>FieldStorage() without using keep_blank_values?  Thus a contradiction with
>what point 1. has to say about it?
>
>I am really trying to understand this.  Can someone help?
>Thanks,
>Maan
>
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Tuesday, August 21, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "If you believe in telekinesis, raise my hand." _/




From guido at python.org  Fri Aug 17 21:37:10 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 01:37:10 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net> <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <1rjctgABtPe7Ewxc@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <cp7kw6em6n.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <LhPzvXAweVe7Ew3O@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cp1ymadub3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> >If you could subclass modules (you can't yet in 2.2a1, but you will in
> >2.2), you could do this for module attribute references, but global
> >variable references don't go through __getattr__ and __setattr__ on
> >the module -- they use the C APIs PyDict_GetItem and PyDict_SetItem
> >and you can't override those.
> >
> >--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
> 
> OK I'll bite. What's a module attribute? I naively thought that
> 
> #M.py
> X=3
> ....
> 
> makes X a global in M and also an attribute of module M? Obviously I'm
> wrong. Are there things (apart from builtins etc) which are more global
> than X in M's scope?

It's purely a syntactical question.  When used from inside the module,
it's a global.  When used from the outside as M.X, it's a module
attribute.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From printers at sendme.cz  Tue Aug 28 08:27:10 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:27:10 +0200
Subject: Questions about threads
Message-ID: <3B8BAA3E.13722.1481D0C@localhost>


Hi,
Can anybody please answer my questions?

1. In my application  I need one function to run in threads. The 
number of threads is chosen by user and numbers of threads can 
not be higher at one time. 
This function writes to a file also.How can I prevent other threads 
from writing to this file when the file is open by another thread ?

2. How can one process control another? For example: my 
program tries to connect to a server over phone.  I want  to cancel 
dial up connection if there is timeout. How can that be done in 
Python?

Thank you very much for help.
Ladislav






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 15:57:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:57:57 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk><PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom><3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Christopher A. Craig" <com-nospam at ccraig.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.997122491.16083.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> I had always thought the reason for not having i++ was because, in
> general, each line of Python code can have at most one lvalue.

I'm not sure what you mean, since 'lvalue' is not a Python
concept, but...:

    a=b,c,d=e='wow'

in what sense does this line of Python code 'have at most
one lvalue'...?


Alex





From plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu  Thu Aug 23 19:13:25 2001
From: plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu (plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:13:25 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m42ml$qi5@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead
> of Lisp-style garbage collection?  As Python gets used for more large
> application development, it gets troublesome to make the programmer
> worry about whether the data has cycles.  Also, using a compacting GC
> helps localize memory references, speeding up the program by improving
> cache performance.  As CPU's get faster and memory doesn't, the cycle
> cost of a cache miss continues to increase.  So maybe the GC
> implementation should be revisited at some point.

	Just wanted to point out that there's been
	some recent work from IBM Research on a
	concurrent reference-counting collector for Java
	that reclaims cycles but without doing any
	global tracing like mark&sweep or copying
        (it does do some localized tracing but
	not the entire graph of accessible objects).

	This also seems to be one of the few papers
	that does a head-to-head performance comparison
	between ref-counting and mark&sweep (concurrent
	versions):
	  http://www.research.ibm.com/people/d/dfb/papers.html#Bacon01Java

        The collector is a concurrent one aimed at
	a multiprocessor servers, and the description
	of the cycle collector (which uses localized
	tracing) claims that it has better locality
	than global tracing schemes.

	They also claim that in this age of
	ultra-fast processors and slow memory,
	it might be a good tradeoff to spend
	more CPU time doing ref-counting operations
	while improving memory access time
	due to ref-counting's better overall locality
	(no periodic trashing of cache and VM
	system by global tracing of heap).

	Manoj



From rossi at earthling.net  Sun Aug 19 08:11:03 2001
From: rossi at earthling.net (Thorsten Roskowetz)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:11:03 +0200
Subject: Copyright Madness
References: <QkKf7.3608$Qh2.775818@typhoon.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9loabg$nf1$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Larry" <larrystg at san.rr.com> wrote:
> Would my plan be a violation of the GPL?
> Would I have to distribute my program for free?

No, since Python is not licensed under the GPL.

Cheers,

Thorsten




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug  9 20:16:53 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:16:53 +0100
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
References: <mailman.997300453.6014.python-list@python.org>
 <9kudb2$klo$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <KWcDSXA1fyc7Ew0K@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9kudb2$klo$1 at panix2.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com>
writes
well Zope 2.4 and Python 2.1 certainly clash under Win32. Seems like
Pythonwin or friends and Zope Central disagree on sys.path
-- 
Robin Becker


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 08:01:46 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:01:46 -0400
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
References: <mailman.997265172.4162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lZ9c7.54178$WD1.3231605@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997265172.4162.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Laurent Szyster wrote:
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/chrisliechti/en/python/index.html
> > > >
> > >    It could be used, I suppose, to debug long-running applications,
> > > daemons... Zope, for example.
> >
> > Zope is built on Medusa (http://www.nightmare.com/medusa) and that one
> > came with an RPC interface for that kind of access. It's used to debug
> > Medusa servers and should work as-is for a Zope server.
>
>    I heard about it, but never saw anyone used it. Any HOWTO on this?
>
Sam Rushing's Medusa distribution does contain some information on it, but
the real documentation is the comments in the code. Reading that should
enable you to connect to a working Medusa server (and hence, presumaby, to a
working Zope).

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From JamesL at Lugoj.Com  Fri Aug  3 00:52:25 2001
From: JamesL at Lugoj.Com (James Logajan)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:52:25 -0700
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org> <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com> <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net> <mailman.996809786.30007.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6A2E09.AB4C86FC@Lugoj.Com>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> My impression was that C++ was a relatively unimportant language
> (relative to C) until Microsoft adopted it. That gave it a huge boost
> and essentially forced most C programmers to become C++ programmers.

Well, better not tell Bjarne Stroustrup. If he finds out, it'll make him a
quivering emotional wreck.


From joonas at olen.to  Mon Aug 20 14:46:20 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:46:20 +0300
Subject: Opening New files
References: <3b814f34_3@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <3B815AFC.BDAB9555@olen.to>

Mikhael Loo wrote:
> 
> What code do you used to open a new file.  I've been opening existing files
> on MSW but I'm having trouble with my files and I think  that I may need to
> use something besides open() if the file doesn't already exists.

If you want to write a file and it does not exist yet, Python will
create it for you.

For example
open("file", "w").write("Python rules")
creates a new file if it doesn't exist yet.
And all this works on Windoze too.


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 19 10:06:15 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:06:15 -0400
Subject: MSDOS/Windows program files
References: <bSJf7.10307$_q.197656@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B7FC7D7.E91828E@engcorp.com>

Aaron Brown wrote:
> I'm running Python 2.1.1 on Win98.  (My Linux box is down for
> repairs.)  When I save and run a program file I get "SyntaxError:
> invalid syntax" on whatever the last line happens to be, even if it's
> a comment.  I assume that Python does not like whatever
> end-of-file character is being put there, but interactive mode
> reacts properly to ctrl-z.

Maybe that's a bad assumption.  Why not post your code?

> It happens no matter whether I use EDIT or Notepad to create
> the file.

Neither EDIT nor Notepad append a Ctrl-Z to the end of a file,
and in fact both show it when you edit the file and allow it to
be removed...

Furthermore Python doesn't seem to mind the Ctrl-Z other than 
that it treats it as end-of-file and ignores anything that
comes after it (on Windows).  It doesn't generate a SyntaxError 
on my machine with any number of test files I just tried.

I can't reproduce your problem with any experiments I've
tried, so I think your assumptions might be wrong.
(Doesn't SyntaxError always point to the erroneous code
with a little caret symbol ^ ?  Post your error message!)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 23:18:06 2001
From: grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com (Jeff Grimmett)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 20:18:06 -0700
Subject: piiiipes!!
Message-ID: <2df3d89d.0108301918.748d18d5@posting.google.com>

Ongoing telnet client battles...

I've got the thing set up and it seems to be handling a lot of junk
thrown at it OK. Now I want to use it to work with child processes.
This is important to maintain modularity, but also because some of the
child processes must be allowed to call each other in an arbitrary
sequence.

So here's the scenario: I have a SocketServer-based system. I have a
read and write handle to the remote client (for now, a telnet client).
Using popen*(), I can call a child process via pipes, and this returns
two (or three, depending) file objects.

Under *nix it would be fairly simple to harness the two together,
sending the output of the client to the child and vice-versa, using
select.select().

Under Win32, which it must also work under, select() won't fly because
(from the docs) 'the underlying select() function is provided by the
WinSock library, and does not handle file desciptors that don't
originate from WinSock. '

In C, which is where the basic framework for this originated, the
process was also simple:

  while(t = read(fp1,args))
  {
      process_and_look_for_control_commands()
      err = write(fp2,t,args)
  }

  while(t = read(fp2,args))
  {
      process_and_look_for_control_commands()
      err = write(fp1,t,args)
  }

Granted it's brute force, but it got the job done.  Unfortunately,
something like:

  while (t = file_1_read_object.read()):
     process_stuff()
     file_2_write_object.write(t)

is not acceptable in Python (or at least, I always get syntax error)

I'm continuing to play around in the sandbox but I think I'm starting
to recurse a bit ...


Suggestions? Comments? Voodoo curses?
Thanks!


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 02:53:01 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:53:01 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291228560.26504-100000@bms>
Message-ID: <000c01c13120$696cff70$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Bruce Sass" <bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> writes:
    ...
> > less: if an OS had runtime support for VB, or for Python, you
> > could use VB, or Python, to write modules for that OS, period.
> > There's no "conceptual" block -- just that, in practice, I know
> > of no such OS (for either language).
> 
> You do now...
> 
> Kernel Support for miscellaneous (your favourite) Binary Formats v1.1
    ...
> includes for example compiled Java(TM), Python or Emacs programs.
    ...
> - enable support for Windows executables using wine:
>   echo ':DOSWin:M::MZ::/usr/local/bin/wine:' > register
    ...
> http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~rguenth/linux/binfmt_misc.html

Great, thanks!  Just for completeness, from the webpage above one
gathers this is for Linux 2.0.33 and on (with suitable patches), 2.1.43 
and on (no patches needed).  Looks like a nice little toy indeed:-).


Alex





From dougfort at dougfort.net  Thu Aug  9 06:55:37 2001
From: dougfort at dougfort.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 11:55:37 +0100
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <3b725bb5.10702165@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3b726c12_4@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Mike Clarkson wrote:

> Hi all,
>     I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want to
> call on an object.  How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
> function call?  Here is an example
> 
> funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
> x = len(funclist)
> y = 0
> while y < x:
>     value = testobj.funclist[y]
>     y = y +1
> 
> This way I could grow the list of functions to be called without coding
> more like the way I am doing it now. I would like to avoid doing the
> following:
> 
> value = testobj.func1()
> value = testobj.func2()
> value = testobj.func3()
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Thanks,
>     Mark Sass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

you can say:

for func in funclist:
    eval(func)

-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 18 17:50:49 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 14:50:49 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <7xzo90pw17.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lhasm11sek@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xy9ohca12.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> > Maybe in Python 2.2 they can make it into an iterator.  That would be
> > the right way to deal with this problem.
> 
> Yep, but iterators weren't around when xrange was introduced.  The
> "do the right thing" (MIT approach, big-design-up-front approach --
> see Gabriel's article as mentioned in my last post) would of course
> have been to stop the world until iterators were designed -- the "worse
> is better" (NJ approach, just-in-time-design approach, Python's
> approach) is incremental and adaptive.  xrange started out VERY
> ambitious -- used to do all sort of things to mimic the behavior of
> the list it 'represented'.  Turns out it's basically only used for the
> purpose of iterating -- so it was simplified by removing most of
> its complications, and there may be iterators to take its place now.

The Scheme approach is "globally" incremental but locally "do the
right thing".  That is, early versions of Scheme didn't have macros--
they were added later, an example of incremental design.  The REASON
early Scheme didn't have macros wasn't because no one wanted them, but
because the designers weren't sure what the best approach was.  So a
bunch of different macro implementations were tested in various Scheme
dialects and then they settled on one and put it in the standard.
They didn't add something to the standard and then change it later.

The current lambda expression in Python seems almost a Perl-ism: one says

   lambda x: x*x      # anonymous squaring function

instead of

  lambda x: return x*x   # make it more like a real function

Is it just to save the keystrokes of typing "return" that the
functionality is so limited?  I don't see any reason not to be able to
put a real multi-statement procedure under a lambda:

   lambda x:
     if x < 0: return x*x
     else: return x*x*x

Maybe that can be added without breaking existing code, but why not
just do it right the first time?  It's not exactly a "big design up
front" to do the obvious thing.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 16:41:10 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:41:10 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B890102.1A772D0E@stroeder.com> <7xzo8l7kco.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Citi7.44883$54.2491100@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <7xu1yttevt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> > Browser CRL checking (at least in MSIE 5.x) works by checking incoming
> > certificates against a CRL at the CA, from what I understand.
> 
> That may well be the case, but to check the CRL a browser is under no
> obligation to report the URL for which the check is being performed. So you
> can't track people by access to the CRL like DoubleClick do with access to
> ad graphics (and even that only works when the client sends the "Referer:"
> HTTP header).

I'm talking about what browsers actually do, not what they might
conceivably be programmed to do.  No they don't report the specific
URL.  But they do have to identify the certificate, which says what
the host is.  That's generally most of the interesting info.



From jessefw at loop.com  Fri Aug 24 19:59:41 2001
From: jessefw at loop.com (Jesse F. W)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:59:41 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <slrn9odcm8.quj.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <3B8687FD.10847.925C403@localhost>

William Tanksley wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote:
<snip>
> >if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop': how would this be tested?
> 
> It wouldn't -- it would be deleted and abhorred.  That's a violation
> of encapsulation and of the law of Demeter (google that if you don't
> know what it means).

	I have looked it up on google.  For the lurkers, (and my own 
greater knowledge), I will rephrase what I found:  The Law of 
Demeter means that you should have as few dots(in Python) in your 
code as possible.  You should make special functions to do 
whatever you need done, instead of just doing the thing where you 
need it done.(Yes, I know that's a sort of pejoritive way of putting it) 
:-) 

> The problem is that each object should have an interface to do
> everything it needs to do.  You shouldn't have to reach inside any
> object to inspect how it's doing its job.  The above code should look
> like 'if self.app.anyPlayersInStoppedBattles():' (I'm assuming that's
> an appropriate name).
>
> However, your question still remains: how do you unit test objects
> which are supposed to delegate operations to other objects?  The
> answer is that you write the unit test without assuming any
> delegation.  That method you mentioned should work whether or not
> delegation is happening; and your test won't care, because it only
> tests the method, not the implementation.

	Now this, I don't understand(yet).  What do you mean, "delegate 
operations to other objects?"  What the example code I included 
above does is check wheather the current player in the game is 
stopped.  I don't see how the method could work if there was no 
current player object.  Also, please say more about your last 
sentence, about testing only the method, not the implementation.

	Thank you very much,
		Jesse W 







From blong at fiction.net  Tue Aug 28 23:59:36 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:59:36 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>
Message-ID: <20010828205936.A25413@pulp>

On 08/28/01 Brandon Long uttered the following other thing:
> 
> Ok, it seems somehow related to the MySQLdb module (0.9.0)

Its definitely the MySQLdb module, unless there is something that
PyApache is doing that its not supposed to.

I've got this simple embedded python wrapper which is doing
approximately what PyApache is doing, and its showing the bug.
(attached is pytest.c and test.py)

Anyone have any idea was MySQLdb is doing wrong?
 
It essentially seems to be causing Python to no longer be able to
recognize builtin exceptions on the second iteration, which results in
an exception like the following in site.py.

> On the second request, the import of the site.py module fails (during
> import __builtin__) with:
> 'import site' failed; traceback:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/site.py", line 60, in ?    
>      import sys, os
>   File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 54, in ?
>     __all__.extend(_get_exports_list(posix))
>   File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 35, in _get_exports_list
>     return list(module.__all__)
> AttributeError: 'posix' module has no attribute '__all__'

Brandon
-- 
 "Here's a nickel, kid.  Get yourself a better computer." 
     -"Dilbert" by Scott Adams 6-24-95
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/
-------------- next part --------------

import sys, os
import time 
import MySQLdb

print "hello world"
-------------- next part --------------
/* To compile:
 *  gcc -o pytest.o -c pytest.c -I/path/to/include/python2.1
 *  gcc -rdynamic -o pytest pytest.o -L/path/to/lib/python2.1/config -lpython2.1 -lieee -lm -lutil -lpthread -ldl
 */

#include <Python.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <string.h>

PyThreadState *TState = NULL;

int py_init ()
{
  if (!Py_IsInitialized())
  {
      Py_Initialize();
#ifdef WITH_THREAD
      PyEval_InitThreads();
#endif

      TState = PyEval_SaveThread();
      Py_VerboseFlag = 0;
      Py_DebugFlag = 0;
  }
}

int execute_python_script ()
{
  PyThreadState *tstate;
  FILE *fp;

#ifdef WITH_THREAD
  PyEval_AcquireLock();
#endif
  Py_VerboseFlag = 1;

  tstate = Py_NewInterpreter();

  fp = fopen("test.py", "r");
  if (fp == NULL)
  {
    fprintf(stderr, "Unable to open test.py: [%d] %s\n", errno, strerror(errno));
#ifdef WITH_THREAD
  PyEval_ReleaseLock();
#endif
    return -1;
  }

  PyRun_SimpleFile(fp, "test.py");

  fclose(fp);

  Py_EndInterpreter (tstate);

#ifdef WITH_THREAD
  PyEval_ReleaseLock();
#endif
}

int py_clean()
{
#ifdef WITH_THREAD  
  if (TState)
    PyEval_AcquireThread (TState);
  TState = NULL;
  Py_Finalize();
#else
  Py_Finalize();
#endif
}

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
  int x;
  py_init();

  for (x = 0; x < 2; x++)
  {
    fprintf(stderr, "Executing %d\n", x);
    execute_python_script();
  }

  py_clean();
}

From max at alcyone.com  Thu Aug  9 02:09:33 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:09:33 -0700
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical data problem
References: <eric7.138732$um3.816234@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net> <mailman.997329854.4836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B72291D.83504245@alcyone.com>

gzeljko wrote:

> You can begin with:
> 
> class MyTree:
>   def __init__(self):
>     d = {}

Should be

	self.d = {}

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is like war:  easy to begin but very hard to stop.
\__/ H.L. Mencken
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From schaffer at optonline.net  Mon Aug 20 16:44:24 2001
From: schaffer at optonline.net (Les Schaffer)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 16:44:24 -0400
Subject: interface to GoldMine customer management database
Message-ID: <87u1z24g2f.fsf@optonline.net>

A month ago i cooked up a quick SWIG interface to the GoldMine
customer management database DLL under Windows. Here is info on the
GoldMine product:

  http://www.frontrange.com/goldmine/
  http://www.frontrange.com/goldmine/gm50_default.asp

The wrapper code and pyd can be found here:

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pygoldmine/

Code is only available in CVS at the moment. OTOH, the required DLL
has been checked in:

  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pygoldmine/PyGoldMine/SWIG/gm5s32c.pyd
  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pygoldmine/PyGoldMine/SWIG/gm5s32.py

If anyone uses the GoldMine product and is interested in this
interface i'd be interested to hear from you. I got into this project
solely on the basis of curiousity about the building of a SWIG-based
wrapper for a commercial Windows DLL and some of the technical
challenges involved. i know next to nothing about the GoldMine product
itself, and fear the meager effort i put into this wrapper will itself
be wasted unless there are other interested parties who use GoldMine
and have an interest in a python interface.

thanks

les schaffer


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 11:27:59 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:27:59 +0200
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <9krlpt02o20@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam at home.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000 at cc489744-a...
> Hi pythoners,
> You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was modal.
> Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get syntax
> highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What more

I don't see why you're trying to fire up an editor flamewar
here (isn't comp.editors more appropriate for that?), but,
moreover, you missed the MOST important Vim feature -- you
can *SCRIPT* it in Python (not to slight Emacs Lisp, but,
this IS c.l.python...:-).  Syntax features for Python are a
dime a dozen these days, but I don't think all that many
editors accept Python as their scripting language (you do
have to compile Vim specifically with Python-scripting
enabled, though -- a given pre-built binary might not
have that option selected:-).

> could you want?  (Note:  I love Vim, please don't attack me for slightly
> insulting Emacs, I do know that Emacs has a HUGE amount of useful
> features)

More than just about *any* other single program on the
planet, I suspect (but that won't sway us old vi-lovers,
particularly now that Oualline has a book out specifically
on VIM...!-).


Alex





From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Tue Aug 21 16:30:58 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 20:30:58 GMT
Subject: PyQt binary for Windows....but?
References: <4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc@posting.google.com> <3112302e.0108140120.5df65f46@posting.google.com> <m2vgjh1cz3.fsf@mouse.copelandconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <9luge2$33o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Greg Copeland <gtcopeland at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Does the KDE libs also work?  Last I looked, PyQT was really made up of
> two libraries.  Once was the qt lib and the other way the kde lib.  Does
> the KDE lib work/come with the Win distro?


First, the old PyKDE was for KDE 1.1.2 - Jim Bublitz is working very
hard on a new release for KDE 2, but it isn't done yet.. But of course,
that won't help anyone on Windows - KDE doesn't run on Windows, so it's
useless to try and make bindings for it...

Still, that doesn't detract from the usefulness of PyQt - Qt in itself
is quite sufficient for extremely advanced GUI programming, including
openGL work. Indeed, PyQt alone offers too much to fit into one fairly
large book...

Work is already in progress on supporting Qt 3 - which will also be
available on OS/X.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Tue Aug  7 09:44:52 2001
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 09:44:52 -0400
Subject: why no ++?
In-Reply-To: <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com>
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
	<PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
	<3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org>
	<9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <8766c0rnl7.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> I'm not sure what you mean, since 'lvalue' is not a Python
> concept, but...:
> 
>     a=b,c,d=e='wow'
> 
> in what sense does this line of Python code 'have at most
> one lvalue'...?

Oops.  I'd forgotten that one.  

- -- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
"The problem with X is that it's overadequate" Dennis Ritchie
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt

iEYEARECAAYFAjtv8NQACgkQjVztv3T8pzs3ugCgpON523a+NM/zxDl5+tR605wP
gVQAoMiem2elDvpPT6SqGsB6InKwD8BP
=3iJv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Aug 22 03:45:11 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:45:11 +0200
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B836307.2924A8AE@stroeder.com>

Richard Jones wrote:
> 
> Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA.

The term "real CA" does not say anything generally valid.

This is off-topic here => Followup-To: poster

Ciao, Michael.


From cbarber at curl.com  Fri Aug 10 09:36:38 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:36:38 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <psou1zg595l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:

> Besides, the compute-intensive part of 3D games has already migrated to
> near-hardware.   There's still some mechanics/lighting that Python
> can't quite do in real-time, but Moore's law will cure that fairly soon.

That remains to be seen.  Of course, Moore's law is not actually a law and it
really only describes the amount of transisters that you can fit in a given
area of silicon.  That only indirectly translates into faster program
execution.

> At that point, the only C "required" will be doing format conversions
> (because python's internal representations are unlikely to match what
> the display processor demands).
> 
> > applications, but it is ridiculous to say that there aren't a significant
> > number of applications for which it does not have the required performance.
> 
> The only significant application is the one that you're working on.

Sure, I was just responding to the claim that there are only five applications
that need better performance.  That is silly.  It might well be that the types
of applications that the existing Python community are involved in don't need
anything better than what Python provides.
 
> However, if you think that you're forced to C for performance and the
> application is big enough to take six or more months to write in C, you
> might find that you're better off taking half that time off and then
> writing in Python because Python will be faster then.

Yes, but why would you pick C?  Maybe you would be better off doing the whole
project in Eiffel, for example.

> In a Moore's Law world, trading increased development time for increased
> performance has generally been a loser.

I agree in general, but you still have to satisfy your project requirements.
There is no point in building a system that cannot be scaled to meet your
needs unless you really are only considering it a prototype.  Unfortunately,
all too often management cannot tell the difference between a prototype and
the real thing. ;-)

> That's how C (mostly) killed assembler.  That's how relational
> databases won.  Java is trying to ride the same trend.

Actually, I don't think that processor speedup made much of a difference in
the success of any of these technologies.

- Christopher



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 23 22:47:05 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 22:47:05 -0400
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
References: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <ug0aiuqc6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Howard Lightstone <howard at eegsoftware.com> writes:

> OK, I made up a Python class/methods to take over stderr/stdout when
> running Pythonw applications and display them in a Tkinter window.
> Works slick.
> 
> However, this DOESN'T work when embedding Python since pythonrun.c still
> refers to stdout/stderr directly...which Windows doesn't have set to
> anything useful.

I don't see many direct references to stdout/stderr in pythonrun.c (at
least current source) except in some specific low level error
conditions or system exit scenarios.  It seems to be using the
sys.stdout and sys.stderr objects pretty consistently, so if they're
redirected you should be fine.  Certainly anything your prior
class/methods did in your pythonw applications should be doable in an
embedded environment.

I think there was a recent thread here on some manner to handle this
with actual internal API calls (probably PySys_SetObject to point
stdout/stderr in the sys module to your internal object), but in an
early embedded application I had, I didn't yet grok Python that well,
so instead took a more straight forward approach that more closely
matched how I had done it in pure Python code - by executing actual
Python code to perform the redirection.

That is, I did the following:

* Created an embedded Python interpreter, and then declared my own code
  as a module to extend that embedded interpreter (see the recent extending
  and embedding thread for further info).  The extension was also for other
  purposes in addition to redirection.

* Wrote internal stdout and stderr functions that routed the messages
  to an internal display window.  I then declared them as functions in
  my module I extended the interpreter with.

* Before executing any scripts with the newly created embedded interpreter,
  I used PyRun_SimpleFile to execute a fixed initialization file that
  re-routed stdout/stderr, as in ("ecna" is my extension module name):

      import sys

      class StdoutCatcher:
	  def write(self, stuff):
	      ecna.stdout(stuff)

      class StderrCatcher:
	  def write(self, stuff):
	      ecna.stderr(stuff)

      sys.stdout = StdoutCatcher()
      sys.stderr = StderrCatcher()

  I expect you could also use PyRun_SimpleString instead if you didn't
  want to depend on an external file.

> How does one reroute/catch these errors?  Unfortunately, the only thing
> I can think of  involves changing pythonrun.c to use the 'objects'
> attached to sys.stdout and sys.stderr so they COULD be rerouted.

Could you point at the section of pythonrun.c you think won't follow a
sys.{stdout,stderr} redirection?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From fred at arakane.com  Sat Aug 18 15:49:26 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:49:26 GMT
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <3B7E5390.C6966CAD@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <aFzf7.55678$MC1.18498741@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Michael Str?der" <michael at stroeder.com> wrote in message
news:3B7E5390.C6966CAD at stroeder.com...
> Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >
> > > i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure.
> > > seems kinda alot of work just to get a constant. even perl
> > > has "use constant" and thats about the ugliest language around :)
> >
> > The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> > constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> > enough for you.
>
> To avoid that another developer in the team changes the constant
> accidently?

What about every other declarations in the module scope (def, class ....)?

Actually, such 'accidents' can't happen, thanks to name scoping and to the
import mechanism.
You can't mess up another module, unless you want to - no confusion is
possible -.

FG





From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Sat Aug 25 12:40:22 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:40:22 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <7xr8u12nqw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>; from phr-n2001@nightsong.com on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:42:47PM -0700
References: <mailman.998584063.22360.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl69d4z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998656777.13591.python-list@python.org> <7xr8u12nqw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20010825124022.L930@naxos.starmedia.net>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:42:47PM -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com> writes:
> > Mason and SkunkWeb compare rather well with each other, as they do tend 
> > to attack the web serving problem in similar ways.
> 
> Thanks... a few more questions...
> 
> Does SkunkWeb have any automatic workflow (content management) tools
> the way Mason does?

Currently not.  That is one area where we could definitely use some
help.  Right now, our content management system is CVS.  Though there
is a Service called pars, which you can make a content archive and have
SkunkWeb serve it directly from the archive file.

> >  * Mason and SkunkWeb have a similar approach to their templating languages,
> >    but I don't think you can reasonably extent Mason's whereby SkunkWeb's
> >    templating language was designed to be extendable.
> 
> Can you say why all those template tags are needed?  Do they get you
> something that a PHP-like approach doesn't?  PHP just has a <?php ... ?>
> tag and you replace the ... with PHP code.

Well the problem I've seen with ASP style templates (PHP included) is
that if you're working with people who don't know a whole lot about
coding and they want to change the layout, the can really botch the
template rather badly (one case that comes to mind is when a
translator translated the program code to Spanish).  With the tag
based things, the non-programmer type HTML people can edit the layout
without worrying about whether they got the code bits right, since the
code is in the tags.  I guess it's mainly an issue of the skill level
mix of the people who are going to be editing templates.

> >  * Mason and SkunkWeb both have HTML and data components.
> >
> >  * Mason and SkunkWeb both have a Request object (though SkunkWeb calls
> >    it CONNECTION).
> 
> OK
> 
> >  * Mason uses Perl, SkunkWeb uses Python.
> 
> Advantage SkunkWeb :-)
> 
> >  * Mason runs in-process with Apache (under mod_perl), SkunkWeb is
> >    it's own daemon (Apache talks to the daemon either by mod_skunkweb
> >    or by a CGI) and if you like, can serve HTTP itself directly.
> 
> OK... I prefer Skunkweb's approach as long as you don't have to fork
> new Skunkweb processes all the time.

SkunkWeb preforks a fixed number of processes that stick around for N
connections and then they commit suicide and are replaced by new
children.  You can set N to 0 and they will stay around indefinitely.
The main reason for this is if you construct a large result (say a few
megabytes), some operating systems (Solaris specifically has this
problem) don't reclaim the memory when it is free()d, so while this
memory will be reused, the excess is never actually given back to the
OS.  It's also a hedge agains a memory leak somewhere.

> >  * Caching.  Mason caches component output to DBM whereby SkunkWeb
> >    caches to disk files.  SkunkWeb's cache can be shared between
> >    machines as well as managed with filesystem tools.  SkunkWeb's
> >    caching interface is also a lot easier to use.
> 
> OK, but if you need a lot of caching, is that not a sign that the
> template engine is too slow?  

Actually no.  The database is often a bottleneck, so instead of
hitting the database for each request for which 99 out of a 100 times
will return the exact same result, you might say: "only hit it every
10 minutes".  OTOH, if you have a component that does some complex
computation, you might want to cache that.

> I'm even more scared of Zope.  I notice
> that www.zope.com says it's served by three separate machines
> connected by a load balancer.  I don't know how many visitors they get
> but it can't be nearly enough to need that much hardware under any
> reasonable page generating system.

I would have to agree that this seems a bit much.  I would think that
this may be due to their template rendering engine as it may have to
do with their template interpreter.  In SkunkWeb, the interpreter is
the Python interpreter (STML is compiled to Python source, and
subsequently to Python bytecode), so the there is no additional
interpreter overhead in SkunkWeb.  In the case that you want to see
what it generates, there is a utility in /usr/local/skunk/util called
vicache.py and you can see the Python code it generates (and edit it
too).

> I have no direct experience with any of these systems (Mason,
> SkunkWeb, Zope) though.  I read the Mason manual a few months ago and
> it seemed pretty good, though messy because it's Perl.  I've been
> using PHP and have been pretty impressed with it.  Can you add a
> SkunkWeb-PHP comparison to your FAQ?  I know that Mason (and SkunkWeb)
> do some things that PHP doesn't but I've forgotten what.

Sure.  I'll have to look more at PHP to answer this though, as it's
been a while since I looked at it.  I've also been thinking that a
PSP-style templating language would probably be a useful addition.
I've got one sorta written, I just need to clean it up and hook it
into the component rendering code.  Documentation for it might be nice
too :).

Drew
--
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From reallywildbill at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  3 10:01:47 2001
From: reallywildbill at hotmail.com (Wild Bill)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 07:01:47 -0700
Subject: What's the standard way to turn a code object into a function ?
References: <mailman.996782286.20876.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <903e2d53.0108030601.13a98de@posting.google.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in message news:<mailman.996782286.20876.python-list at python.org>...
> I don't know if there is a "standard" way -- it's not something
> that is routinely done. ..

Yeah, but I'm building a framework. Which makes it useful.

> But take a look at the 'new' module.

Ah! That looks just like what I need. Thank you. It is a
"new" one on me. 

Bill


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Aug 25 08:17:33 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:17:33 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998693619.27471.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m850t$fuq$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Terry Reedy]
>> *NOT* using {} redundantly for blocking frees {} for use as dictionary
>> delimiters.  Anyone who suggests using {} for structure should be
>> asked how they would write dictionary literals!

> Easy!  Instead of, e.g.,

[snip code sample]

> IOW, the body of a dict literal needs to be indented relative to the
> preceding stmt, and the stmt following a dict literal needs to be dedented.
> Apart from those rules, you can enjoy the readability afforded by curly
> braces to start stmts wherever the hell you feel like, damn it <wink>.

But this would conflict with a great new feature in Python 2.2, dict
comprehensions!

mydict = { x : str(y) for x, y in dict.items() if x > 10 }

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug 23 18:54:12 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:54:12 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>
	        <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com>
	        <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	        <3B8551CC.846C141B@home.net> <mailman.998596476.29968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B858994.DACF38E2@home.net>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Even though it's easier for a more experienced Python/C programmer to write
> an extension, they are still not nearly as trivial to write as the
> equivalent Python code, so there is still a subtantial barrier to clear.

Exactly. no one says the Python developers have no interest in speed,
jsut that it has not been seen as worth the very substantial effort.
Some things have been optimized, of course.
 
>     Chris> A user like myself who is a C novice, needs to put a whole lot of
>     Chris> time into that same C extension. If I could compile some Python
>     Chris> (perhaps with a few static type declarations or something) I'd be
>     Chris> a whole lot more productive!!
> 
> One thing that everyone needs to remember is that optimizing any language is
> extremely hard.  Sprinkling a few static type declarations into your Python
> code isn't going to help much either.

Given Python's dynamic nature, I imagine it would extremely difficult to
optimize. But I do think that "Sprinkling a few static type declarations
into your Python code" could help a lot given the following:

- The code can be Py2C's or straignt compiled into native code.
- You are only expecting this to work for small portions of your code
that are not very dynamic: much the same chiunks of code that can now
fairly easily be converted to C.

> it's hard, and it's time-consuming.  Perhaps if we
> all scraped together our nickels and dimes and sent them to PythonLabs
> they'd be able to hire another person to do Tim's current job so he could
> spend the next year on such a project.

As impressed as I am by Tim Peters, I imagine it would be more than a
single Tim-year to get the job done!

>     Chris> I had high hopes for the Py2C project, it seems like it had a LOT
>     Chris> of potential for allowing this, but it seems to be stalled out
> 
> There is a fundamental problem with Py2C: In many cases it gets you about a
> 2X speedup but generates huge object files.  It more-or-less unrolls the
> interpreter's main loop.  Also, since it operates at compile-time it can't
> tell what functions should be converted to C and what ones aren't worth the
> effort.  A runtime-based system could observe what functions are consuming
> the bulk of the time and just translate them.

Yes, that would be great, but it would require the above mentioned lot
of work. What I saw in Py2C was a way to build compiled modules for
those pieces of code that could benifit. Again, have it write the C for
me, where I now have to do it myself. I probably have a pretty narrow
view, but most of the stuff I end up needing to optimize are fairly
simple numeric routines. I use NumPy a lot, to I might have a function
that takes a couple of NX2 arrays of Floats, and loops through them a
few times doing something with them. If Py2C knew that they were
supposed to be NumPy arrays of floats (or lists of all Floats), it could
write the type checking code, and then those loops in straight C, just
like I end up doing by hand, but I wouldn't have to do it.

>     Chris> In short: yes, speed matters, and Python could be a far more
>     Chris> general purpose language than it is if the speed issue were
>     Chris> addressed as succesfully as it has been for LISP.
> 
> Lisp had a 30-35 year head start on Python and even today probably has a
> developer pool that is much larger than Python's.  Also, it's a bit unfair
> to compare Python's performance with commercial offerings.  Again, there are
> only so many people around who do this stuff, they only have so much time,
> and they get paid well to do what they do.

Fairness has nothing to do with it. The folks that brought us and are
continuing to bring us Python have provided a wonderful language. We're
all just jabbering on here about what it could be, not blaming anyone
for it not being that (at least I'm not). 

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From rbtns082484 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 17 10:30:29 2001
From: rbtns082484 at hotmail.com (Rbtns)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:30:29 -0400
Subject: Calling C++ from Python
Message-ID: <3B7D2A85.A11E46CB@hotmail.com>

How would I call a C++ object from Python?

I have a file of something like:

#include <iostream.h>
int main()
{
  cout <<"I need this to work\n";
  return 0;
}

and I want to display my C++ program output from within a python
program. Do I create an object of the C++ program, and therefore would
it need to be in a class?  How do I do this if I don't want the program
in a class?  How do I import the C++ file?



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Tue Aug 21 13:04:28 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ByteCode Questions
In-Reply-To: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD5C@newsintern.dspace.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108211300280.261-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

Skip covered your question pretty thoroughly -- I'll just add that 
the hack below is no longer needed, as 2.1 has sys._getframe():

>>> print sys._getframe.__doc__
_getframe([depth]) -> frameobject

Return a frame object from the call stack.  If optional integer depth is
given, return the frame object that many calls below the top of the stack.
If that is deeper than the call stack, ValueError is raised.  The default
for depth is zero, returning the frame at the top of the call stack.

This function should be used for internal and specialized
purposes only.
>>> sys._getframe()
<frame object at 0x1e6590>

-- Steve Majewski



> import traceback
> 
> def EvalInCaller(Command):
>     try:
>         1/0
>     except:
>         import traceback
>         import sys
>         tb = sys.exc_info()[2]
>         ExecFrame = tb.tb_frame.f_back
>         exec(Command, ExecFrame.f_globals, ExecFrame.f_locals)




From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug 23 20:39:44 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:39:44 -0700
Subject: Installing packages into PythonWin
In-Reply-To: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F07951D@ULURU2>
Message-ID: <000401c12c35$454f5380$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

> I am having trouble installing a package (specifically the
> Python Imaging Library) into PythonWin. Copying the files
> into the Lib/sites-packages directory did not install the
> PIL automatically, I eventully got it to work by manually
> adding the PIL location to the Python path. I am sure that
> the sites-packages trick worked on the generic (ie non
> Active State) Python distribution, and it adds directories
> to the Python path depending on the contents of and files
> with extension .pth that are in the sites-packages
> directory.

site-packages is not part of the Python path on Windows. There is a
PEP that is scheduled for Python 2.2 that seeks to rectify that but
you will have to hack around it for now:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0250.html

Cheers,
Brian




From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Fri Aug 17 04:00:46 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:00:46 +0200
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Jesse W wrote:


> I hope, as I said above, that this method will allow me to finish
> various projects I have started and had to abandon because I got
> stuck in binds I could not specifically understand or find out how to
> resolve.  My doubts lie with the thought that it is very difficult to
> figure out what the requirements of a program will be before you
> write the program, and will this method make programming into a
> tiresome, irritating task, even if I can write these bigger programs?
> My question to you all is this:  Do you have any suggestions on
> how to deal with learning to use unit testing in this way, or examples
> of setting up games with this kind of unit testing, or GUI programs?
> Really, any thoughts or comments you might have about this form of
> unit testing, or how to learn to use it, would be very appreciated.
> 

I've found little value in writing unittests for GUI apps (and that 
includes games), but lots of use for unittests in the underlying libraries. 
I use unittests even when writing examples for my PyQt book, and I've 
included a chapter on unit testing, which Stephen Figgins rather liked, 
even in the draft form 
(http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2001/07/05/pythonnews.html).

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 13 00:13:38 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 21:13:38 -0700
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org> <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9l7k5i$5eh$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B77150B.9F8FC079 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Anything wrong with this, simpler, approach?
>
>>>> for x in a.keys():
>...     print '%s%s' % (x, a[x])

Even simpler and faster:

for x,y in a.items():
    print '%s%s' % (x,y)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

Internet $tartup$: Arbeit ueber alles  


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 21:08:54 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 01:08:54 GMT
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <mailman.999276835.26705.python-list@python.org> <b5f84cf8.0108311646.1ddf1f98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GyWj7.529197$lq1.107370175@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b5f84cf8.0108311646.1ddf1f98 at posting.google.com...
> you lost me, whats dir() do, and how do i use it.
>
>>> import os
>>> dir(os)
['F_OK', 'O_APPEND', 'O_BINARY', 'O_CREAT', 'O_EXCL', 'O_RDONLY', 'O_RDWR',
'O_TEXT', 'O_TRUNC', 'O_WRONLY', 'P_DETACH', 'P_NOWAIT', 'P_NOWAITO',
'P_OVERLAY', 'P_WAIT', 'R_OK', 'TMP_MAX', 'UserDict', 'W_OK', 'X_OK',
'_Environ', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__',
'_execvpe', '_exists', '_exit', '_get_exports_list', '_notfound', 'abort',
'access', 'altsep', 'chdir', 'chmod', 'close', 'curdir', 'defpath', 'dup',
'dup2', 'environ', 'error', 'execl', 'execle', 'execlp', 'execlpe', 'execv',
'execve', 'execvp', 'execvpe', 'fdopen', 'fstat', 'getcwd', 'getenv',
'getpid', 'i', 'isatty', 'linesep', 'listdir', 'lseek', 'lstat', 'makedirs',
'mkdir', 'name', 'open', 'pardir', 'path', 'pathsep', 'pipe', 'popen',
'popen2', 'popen3', 'popen4', 'putenv', 'read', 'remove', 'removedirs',
'rename', 'renames', 'rmdir', 'sep', 'spawnl', 'spawnle', 'spawnv',
'spawnve', 'startfile', 'stat', 'strerror', 'sys', 'system', 'times',
'umask', 'unlink', 'utime', 'write']
>>>
That is what dir() do :)  A 'directory' of a module.

> I should have said earlier, im a C++ person, only started looking into
> Python a few weeks ago.
>
> If i had a choice of something else i wouldnt use python, but its the
> only medium to get the models out of blender.
>
What do you mean by choice?  Python is as good as it gets and here you have
a program that allows you to script.  You certainly are not going to script
in C++ or C.  What else do you exactly have in mind.
I use scripting - let it be VB for Applications in Excel or scripting for an
animation in the old vistapro program.  Just for the fun of it.  I use
Python for scripting in the povray modeller Breeze Designer.  I have never
used Blend.  But I get a sense of what is happening.  You should FEEL LUCKY
you can use a scripting engine (ANY scripting engine) with a modelling
program.  and here you have Python.
>
> I really have a hard time understanding how the classes in python
> function, and the for statement gives me problems. To be honest i dont
> care for the launguage, if I had looked at it before i started C it
> probably wouldnt look so odd, not even sure if it was around when i
> started in programming.
>
There are countless documents on www.python.org
Please check them out and you are going to change your rmind.  This is a
NEAT clear ELEGANT language.  Maybe you are bothered by the indentation.
You get used to it.  It imposes clarity and maintability.
Maan




From alice at homegiant.d2g.com  Thu Aug 30 03:16:12 2001
From: alice at homegiant.d2g.com (Alice Lin (Home Giant))
Date: 30 Aug 2001 15:16:12 +0800
Subject: Furniture Hardware
Message-ID: <E15cMGa-0001LZ-00@mail.python.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010830/4719f2ab/attachment.html>

From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Aug 24 10:40:12 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:40:12 +0100
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78C034@intrepid>

> From:	YMK [SMTP:gbeymk at sgh.com.sg]
> If I know the "Record Separator" of a flat file, how do I set to read
> one record at a time ?
 
If the file isn't large, I would suggest that you just read the whole lot
into a string, and split it like so (untested):

myfile = open('whatever')
myfiledata = myfile.read()
myfilelines = myfiledata.split(mydelimiter)

If the file is large, then you are going to have to do something clever. 

(Hmmm, sounds like *exactly* the sort of thing that Python 2.2's generators
were designed for! I can't play now, 'cos I'm at work, but I'll try
something this evening. Of course, the Martellibot will beat me too it,
*and* come up with a more elegant solution...)

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Aug  7 16:17:11 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 16:17:11 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <3dvgjz1v7c.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> writes:
> Thanks for making such nice overviews, I always check them out to see

You're welcome.

> of in, the __contains__() version and the next() one.  The fact that
> "key in dict" is now equivalent to "dict.has_key(key)" has nothing to
> do with the iterability of dicts, at least that's what I've understood
> sofar.

You're quite correct that they're not really related; either change
could have been made independently of the other.  It just seemed
clearest to cheat a bit and mention the 'X in dict' change at that
point.  Otherwise the only reasonable place to describe it would have
been down in the "Other Changes and Fixes" section, and I'm not sure
many people actually bother to read that far, as most of the items in
that section are pretty esoteric.

--amk




From gradha at iname.com  Sat Aug 25 11:35:20 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:35:20 +0200
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
Message-ID: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1>

Hi.

Promptly most of my scripts give SyntaxWarnings under Python 2.1.1, and the
warning is so strange to me, and doesn't explain anything or point in any
direction that I don't know exactly what to do. I've searched the
documentation for warning, syntax and global keywords, but I don't seem to
find what is making python angry. Here's the example:

#!/usr/bin/env python

expresion_include = "a string"

if __name__ == "__main__":
   global expresion_include
   print expresion_include

As said before, versions of Python 2.0 and earlier didn't show this warning.
What is it and how do I make it go away?

-- 
 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at terra.es   http://gradha.infierno.org


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Aug 10 09:46:14 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:46:14 -0500
Subject: PySOAP???
References: <3b73dbde.489022847@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <EE52A68200EA9E52.24FDF2ACE10FC10B.A7850789BC5E73F4@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3b73dbde.489022847 at news.laplaza.org>,
Mats Wichmann <mats at laplaza.org> wrote:
>Finally got around to reading Cameron Laird's neat little intro to
>PySOAP off O'Reilly's Python DevCenter, and tried to go fetch the
>code.  For several days now, there's no response from actzero.com, the
>link he's pointing to. A web search has not turned up any other
>locations for this code. Anybody have and alternate location (and
>what's up with Actzero?)
>
>Mats
>

<URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysoap/ >
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug 12 22:57:34 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:57:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108122126370.8091-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> > A dynamic class will be slower than a static class, so I prefer having
> > to request this explicitly.  But we can certainly quibble about that!
> 
> As I said, exactly Stroustrup's reasoning in C++'s design -- a non
> overridable method is faster than a virtual one, so he preferred to
> make users request virtuality explicitly.  Like anybody who's ever
> taught C++ or helped beginners in that language fix mistakes, I've
> had occasion to bemoan that design choice repeatedly -- even though,
> with performance such an important priority for C++, and historical
> compatibility reasons, it's quite understandable.  It appears to me
> making static classes the default is a similar choice, requiring lots of
> up-front design (dynamic classes are used to change behavior of
> a running program, for example -- to refactor, unless dynamic
> classes have been specified beforehand for all important places,
> the program needs to be stopped), facilitating premature optimization,
> and without Stroustrup's particular excuses (surely performance is not
> as key a criterion for Python as for C++, and in this case we'd be
> going _against_ historical compatibility).

Let me underscore this once, and put it in the terms I think of it in:
with these changes, you will be introducing the worst design error of C++
into Python.  Indeed, the _central_ problem with C++ is that it always
prefers efficiency over dynamism, even in its so-called "high level"
features.

If python were not as dynamic as it is, it would be _completely_
uninteresting to me; especially given that these changes are not going to
propel python into the running as even a mildly fast programming language
(do you believe that you can approach the performance of HotSpot or GCJ by
making classes static?  The speed of the VM for Squeak with its JIT and
massively optimized GC?).  Features like class assignment constitute not
only a convenience for me, but in many ways a near religious experience
about how important making one's code dynamic is.

(I tried to think of a nicer way to say this; and I apologise in advance
for failing to do so, but...) This exchange confirms my suspicion, that
I'd seen voiced once before on this mailing list, that Guido doesn't
really know what it is that makes Python cool.  To me, it's obvious that
the _point_ of the whole thing is dynamicism; of course, as Travis
Hartwell said of Twisted, "... it seems like you guys program a different
Python than I do. You use its dynamic nature and all of that so much more
than I have ever thought of."  Maybe it's only a matter of time before we
really _are_ using a different language. :-(

> > I expect that the new facilities will be seriously user-tested only
> > after 2.2 is released, and experience will learn how often people are
> > changing class variables.
> 
> You think people will be changing class variables _less_ often than
> now because of 2.2's new facilities?  I don't see the relevance, but I
> guess I must have missed something.  The new facilities appear to be
> very deep and important, but in areas quite different from those in
> which class-object changes are useful, it seems to me.

It is an act of supreme arrogance -- which all programmers commit, on
frequent occasions, myself included -- to assume that the users of your
code will not want to change it.  Slightly less arrogant, but perhaps more
annoying, is the assumption that the users of your code will not want to
change it at run-time.  Every time I have made this assumption, I have
been wrong.  (Even when I was the only "client" of my code! ^_^)  
Sometimes that wrongness is worth paying for, because of size or speed
considerations -- but that event is sufficiently rare that I'd much rather
have to explicitly say "__be_fast_not_nice__ = 1".

I've heard it said that the art of software engineering is the art of
deferring binding until later and later.  Python defers it as long as
possible, with really excellent results.  To make it do so any sooner
would be to make it less artful :-)

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph






From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug  8 11:43:21 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:43:21 GMT
Subject: I want to learn as much as possible
References: <2209a682.0108080247.565b6d13@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2n99.4bm.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On 8 Aug 2001 03:47:08 -0700, Relfx <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm new to python but I have heard alot of good things about python.
> I am currently a user mirc the internet relay chat client. But it is 
> difficult for me to script in irc with python alot of the clients
> don't
> support python and the one client that does it has alot of bugs. 
> 
>   If there are any irc users out there that script in python running
> on windows98 I would really like some instance in buil;ding a irc
> client of my own entirely in python. Is this possible? And what all
> would I need ot achieve this goal? I have heard some people talk about
> python active state version. I currently have python version 2.1.1 is
> this all I would need or will python active state version for windows
> be more of a necessity?
> 
> Relfx

I have a simple irc bot that prints a fortune to current channel if
anybody types "fortune". It only works on unix, but you may find it
useful to look at the code and see how you connect to the server,
send messages, parse messages, etc.

Get it here: silmarill.org/fortuneBot

 - Andrei

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 05:33:47 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:33:47 +0200
Subject: displayhook = pprint & _ not happy together
References: <b03e80d.0108260540.15584b05@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9md45s01kt9@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Sandy Norton" <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b03e80d.0108260540.15584b05 at posting.google.com...
> From the documentation:
>
> "In interactive mode, the last printed expression is assigned to the
> variable _. This means that when you are using Python as a desk

That's part of the job of the displayhook, of course.

> import sys, pprint
> sys.displayhook = pprint.pprint
> del pprint, sys
>
> which works fine in regular cases and gives me pretty-printed
> interactive output (which I dearly like). But I've just noticed that
> doing this makes the _ non-functional. For example:

...because pprint knowns nothing about it, of course.

> Bug or feature?

Feature.  Easy to fix if you want both pretty printing
AND the _ assignment, of course:

import sys, pprint, __builtin__
def myhook(value, show=pprint.pprint, bltin=__builtin__):
    if value is not None:
        bltin._ = value
        show(value)
sys.displayhook = myhook
del __builtin__, pprint, sys

or whatever exact logic you wish.  That's better than
using pprint.pprint directly and getting a None displayed
each time you interactively call a subroutine, anyway:-).


Alex






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 19:26:31 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:26:31 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xr8u96tni.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> Here's one: say I have a long int, like x = 7**77777L.  How can I tell
> how many bits it takes to express that number in binary?  How can I

>>> x = 7**77777L
>>> import gmpy
>>> print gmpy.numdigits(x,2)
218348

so I think you need 218,348 bits (could be 218,347: gmpy just
wraps GMP, the GNU MP library, and GMP in turn sometimes gives
an extra digit when asked for number of digits of a number in
a certain base).  I know of no fast way to do this in 100% pure
Python, which was one of my motivations for wrapping GMP into
GMPY (*fast* moltiplication of long numbers being another).

> convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
> form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can

>>> zz = gmpy.binary(x)
>>> type(zz)
<type 'string'>
>>> len(zz)
27294
>>> len(zz)*8
218352
>>> zz[:4]
'\x87\xb4&\xd7'
>>> zz[-4:]
'\xb1\xd0\x7f\x0c'
>>>

zz is a string of 27294 bytes (218352 bits, 4 more than x's
length due to rounding) that represents it as binary (little
endian base-256).

> think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.

GMP is pretty fast, and so is its wrapper GMPY.  See
gmpy.sf.net.  I don't think it's a "weird kludge" to wrap
a good multiprecision library to get at its functionality
from Python -- I think it's rather Pythonic, actually.


Alex





From kzowkf at who.com  Mon Aug 27 08:58:30 2001
From: kzowkf at who.com (kzowkf at who.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:58:30 GMT
Subject: Free NewAge music at mp3.com  1722
Message-ID: <Wtri7.37067$e5.2361612@newsb.telia.net>

Listen and download free music composed by Swedish Electronic Music composer Ralph Lundsten at http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/279/ralph_lundsten.html
hecvnhrohpxhuedicnyqyqrnjgmlxegxocferlilhsnxp



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Aug 31 16:20:12 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 16:20:12 -0400
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
References: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <uitf43rsz.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> writes:

> How to Config?

If you install the Win32 extensions (available either automatically
with the ActiveState install or as a separate package from the
ActiveState site), then Python will automatically be registered as a
valid scripting language on the system, and can be used directly in
ASP pages without any special additional configuration from IIS.

Just enable Python as the language in your ASP and you're set, e.g.:

    <%@ Language=Python %>

    <%
       (write Python code here)
    %>

The standard IIS ASP objects (Request, Response, etc..) are available
for use according to their object model, just as with VBScript.

You can also go the CGI route as has been pointed out in this thread,
but I've found the ASP model convenient as long as I'm not worried
about my web presentation code being portable outside of IIS.

Also, this method means that in most cases unhandled exceptions in
your script generate nicely formatted output to the web client
including the exception information which I've found convenient during
debugging or for quick 'n dirty scripts.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sun Aug  5 12:49:32 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 12:49:32 -0400
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
In-Reply-To: <9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
	<9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <oqwv4i5u5f.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Ng Pheng Siong]

> According to William Annis  <annis at biostat.wisc.edu>:
> > Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven system
> > to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit, etc.,
> > and I keep thinking "William, you should write an *infrastructure*
> > for all this system junk you do."  I'd rather not do this alone.

> This problem has been around long before the first Internet gold rush -
> many skilled people have attacked it. Find something you can get going,
> e.g., cfengine, Big Brother, even the old venerable Nocol.

About `cfengine', I tried it very seriously and for a long while, and
despite seduced by the idea, came to regret having used this package, for
its lack of maintainability.  But as I became much dependent on `cfengine',
it was just not possible for me to dismiss it.  So, after having sufferred
enough, I bit the bullet, and rewrote those parts I needed in Python.
What a relief!  That was much, much more maintainable.  It was also easy
to use Python itself as a configuration description language, and this gave
me, for free, a _lot_ of flexibility.  Speed was also very acceptable: such
beasts are typically IO-bound, `cfengine' IO optimizations were not difficult
to transpose into Python.  (I'm not aware of Big Brother nor Nocol.)

> Join Usenix and SAGE.  Check out the material of Usenix's sysadmin
> conferences from years past.  Behold the diversity.  It doesn't have to
> be Python.

I quite understand your call for broader views.  Yet, in my own experience,
unless you are ready to fully accept a package for what it statically is,
"being Python" helps a great deal.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Aug 17 16:11:52 2001
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:11:52 -0600
Subject: constant in python?
Message-ID: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F27DBB4@admin56.narex.com>

> From: liam [mailto:lcampbell at ubytes.com]
> 
> is there a data type like the const in c/c++? ive been 
> combing through the
> doc and it doesnt seem to have one or am i missing something 
> somewhere?

Do you want something you can const_cast away, like in C++, or do you
want something that's guaranteed to be constant? The former is
accomplished idiomatically in Python by using all uppercase variable
names, and then not assigning to them (sort of like C++ declaring
something const and not const_casting it away). Neither C++ nor Python
has reliable ways of ensuring that something cannot be changed.

-- bjorn



From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 10:40:12 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:40:12 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <1004690.ASKD2KPVSP@lunix.schabi.de>

Hello,

Dylan Thurston <dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu> schrub:

> Let me complain a little about the slicing interface while I'm at it.
> I don't understand why missing endpoints are turned into 0/maxint
> (rather than, say, 'None') before calling __getitem__; it removes a
> lot of flexibility.  Also, why are the slices restricted to being
> integers?  I can imagine, say, slicing a 2-dimensional array based on
> the endpoints (like 'delete-rectangle', etc. in Emacs).

With the automatic turning to 0/maxint, they even are limited to 
non-negative integers. So it is impossible to use any form of negative 
indexes, which sometimes would be nice when dealing with coordinates.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From ma-zoXXXXX at gmx.at  Mon Aug 27 04:20:06 2001
From: ma-zoXXXXX at gmx.at (martin zohlhuber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:20:06 +0200
Subject: How can i install python-mode in a emacs-editor ?
Message-ID: <3B8A02B6.16B33968@gmx.at>

I have SUSE 7.1 whith emacs version 20......
I have some troubles to insert the python-mode into emacs.
I download a file (python-mode.el) and compile it.

Then i get troubles: When i make M-x python-mode RET, emacs write no
match.
I am seeking python-mode.elc and that is ok. What is false ?

Last week i made a new install of SUSE. Before i install i had also want
insert the python-mode, (i got .emacs and python-mode.elc from a frind)
I get follow  errormassage, if i write M-x python-mode RET: Unexpected
End of File during parsing
M-x c-mode works correct.

Can somebody help me ???

What must i do, that i have a colored programming editor for python
under linux ?





From micampe at f2s.com  Wed Aug 22 08:45:57 2001
From: micampe at f2s.com (Michele Campeotto)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:45:57 GMT
Subject: C extension and long ints
Message-ID: <20010822.112654.1308044878.1453@f2s.com>

Hi, I have a Gtk+ widget wrapped in a Python extension and I need to
pass long integers to some function. The wrapper is generated with the
scripts found in PyGtk and I get an OverflowError when passing a long to
my functions (which is correct because ParseTuple is called with "O!ii").

  Then I have tried to fix it manually and I have done:

    int margin;
    long mask1, mask2;
    PyObject *m;
    PyObject *sci;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O!iO:gtk_scintilla_set_margin_mask_n", &PyGtk_Type, &sci, &margin, &m))
        return NULL;
    mask1 = PyInt_AsLong(m);
    mask2 = PyLong_AsLong(m);

  but both mask1 and mask2 are always -1...

  What am I doing wrong? Can this be done automatically with the code
generator?
[ix86 Red Hat Linux 7.1 + Ximian Gnome 1.4]

  Thanks in advance,
  Michele

-- 

  -- Michele  -  www.moleskine.f2s.com

  "Your mouse has moved, you must restart
   Windows to see the changes. Restart now?
                  [ Ok ]"






From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 15:22:39 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:22:39 -0400
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
In-Reply-To: <Pyth7.2557$H%.69407@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENHLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Szczepan Ho?yszewski]
> I just downloaded Python-2.1.1.exe installer and, guess, I'm getting
> that "Corrupt installation detected." box. I've already found out
> that it has something to do with administrator privileges on WinNT/2000.

In the sense that *if* you're running NT/2K, it's possible to get a *bogus*
"Corrupt installation detected" msg from the 2.1.1 installer simply because
you don't have sufficient privilege.  The new 2.2a2 installer should not
have that problem (if you want to be a daring alpha tester, try that
instead!).

That's not a possible cause on 95/98/ME, though.  It's far more likely on
the latter that the download is in fact corrupt.  If you tried downloading
using Netscape, try IE instead, or vice versa, or if you use ftp make sure
you use binary mode.

A size check sometimes settles this issue:

C:\Code>dir Python-2.1.1.exe

 Volume in drive C is HOMEDRIVE
 Volume Serial Number is 2637-18E7
 Directory of C:\Code

PYTHON~1 EXE     6,310,277  07-20-01 12:00p Python-2.1.1.exe

If your Python-2.1.1.exe isn't exactly 6,310,277 bytes, it's definitely
corrupt.

> But_I_have_Win95_ so how can I log in with administrator provileges
> on a system that doesn't support any privileges at all?

You can't; that stuff is irrelevant on Win95.

> Why does the installer think it is running on WinNT/2000?

It doesn't.

> How to fix the problem without actually buying and installing
> WinNT and then logging in as an administrator?

See above.  BTW, corrupted downloads on 95/98 are a surprisingly common
problem!  Most problem reports on those boxes go away after downloading
using some other method, and sometimes after a reboot too (although Win9x
users do that so often it's hard to tell whether it's actually relevant --
but on Win9x a reboot never hurts, so what the heck <wink>).




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Fri Aug 24 00:07:30 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:07:30 -0500
Subject: know if someone ping me
References: <mailman.998546434.927.python-list@python.org> <jtb2m9.v13.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <9m331o028f0@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <006f01c12c52$4fe606a0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>


> You can do much better than this!  With newer syslogd's, at
> least on Linux, you can log to a named pipe, so your Python
> program can just 'loop' reading from that named pipe and be
> woken up for processing when there's something to process --
> a MUCH better idea than 'polling' (continuosly read from
> a file) in terms of system-load for infrequent events.

Polling implemented with a loop like this:

    while 1:
        line = fp.readline()
        if line == '':
            time.sleep(1)
        else:
            # process line here

is actually fairly efficient on Unixoid OS's.  You have up to a
one second delay before processing each line of the log, but 
such a delay is normally not a problem.

I actually wrote a chat program in the old days using this 
method (in C) and it ran fairly well AND left a log of the
communication automatically.

Blocking due to sleep() is just as good as blocking due to read()
on an empty pipe; polling with sleep() is just a *little bit* less
efficient than reading the pipe.





From marten at toppoint.de  Wed Aug 15 14:03:43 2001
From: marten at toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:03:43 +0100
Subject: How to define a callback from Python to a C program ...
Message-ID: <3B7AB97F.E2103C67@toppoint.de>

I want to extend my application (not written in C) with Python and
I want to call from Python to my program and give my program some
information (say a string) ... it's something like a callback.

Can this be done ???


              (calls)
Ext.Program -----------> Python
                           |
                           |
            (callback)     |
    + <--------------------+
    |
    |
    |        (return)
    +---------------------->
                           |
                           |
            (returns)      |
     <---------------------+



Marten


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  9 12:45:14 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:45:14 -0500
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
In-Reply-To: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <15218.48666.771516.721240@beluga.mojam.com>

    Mark> Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and
    Mark> deleting elements that don't meet a certain criteria.

I typically traverse the list backwards:

    for i in range(len(list)-1,-1,-1):
        if list[i] > y:
            del list[i]

It's fairly easy to recognize because to range over a list front-to-back you
use

    range(len(list))

and to range over a list back-to-front you add "-1,-1,-1" between the two
closing parens:

    range(len(list)-1,-1,-1)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 10:26:44 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:26:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: os.execl()
In-Reply-To: <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271022280.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Brian E Gallew wrote:

> Then <eli at udel.edu> spoke up and said:
> > User-Agent: Pan/0.9.7 (Unix)
> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.1.161.108
> > 	I have a question about the ececl function from the os module. I was
> > trying to write a script to untar a bunch of tarballs in a directory. The
> > script looked like this
> >
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> >
> > import os
> >
> > os.system("ls *.gz > data_file")
> >
> > tar_file = open("data_file"), "r")
> >
> > tar_array = tar_file.readlines()
> >
> > for tarball in tar_array:
> > 	os.execl("tar", "xzvf", tarball)
> >
> > os.system("rm data_file")
>
> That really won't do what you want it to do.  You probably want to do
> something like this:
>
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> import os,glob
>
> cmd = [ '/usr/bin/tar',
> 	'-x',
> 	'-z',
> 	'-f',
>       ]
>
> tar_file_list = glob.glob('*.tar.gz')
>
> for tar_file in tar_file_list:
>     if os.fork():
>        os.wait()
>     else:
>        os.exec(cmd[0], cmd + [tar_file,])

Oh man, you two are doing WAY too much work. Here's my version:

---
#! /bin/bash

for i in *.tar.gz; do
  tar zxvf "$i";
done
---

or if you're running under DOS or Windows:

---
@echo off
for i in (*.tar.gz) do tar zxvf "%%i"
---

Python is nice, but it's not always the best tool for certain tasks.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 30 11:51:25 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 08:51:25 -0700
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
References: <slrn9osmeo.g1.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <7xheupk0le.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

michaelteo at bigfoot.com (Michael Teo) writes:
> I get an "OverflowError: long int too long to convert" when I tried to 
> print "%d" % l
> where l is a long Python value.
> 
> I have tried using str(l) but that gives a trailing 'L'.
> 
> Any good suggestion on how to solve this problem will be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks.

print str(l)[:-1]


From peter.milliken at gtech.com  Thu Aug 16 23:38:27 2001
From: peter.milliken at gtech.com (Peter Milliken)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:38:27 +1000
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9li3q0$kkq4@news1.gtech.com>

Well Jesse, might I suggest that the reason you might be in these binds
might lay in the fact that you don't figure what the requirements are before
you code! :-). I haven't (bothered) to read about Extreme Programming -
there is a new buzzword/method every 6-12 months that people flock to hoping
for the proverbial silver bullet for achieving correct software development.
Life is too short to follow all of these fads.

At the end of the day, I have never had any trouble with the standard
approach taught in many software engineering courses i.e. determine the
requirements (which may require some rapid protyping - not all problems can
be well defined up front! :-)), laying down a proper decomposition of the
problem i.e. design and continue the design step until code modules are
easily identified. Then and only then write the code. If you follow these
simple steps, then you can determine (some of) unit test criteria before you
write your code because you have designed what modules are going to be
required! Of course, you won't determine all unit test criteria (only
testing at the interface of the routine level) until you write the code -
since unit test, by definition, involves testing all of the paths through
the code :-)

I have followed this regime for 20+ years of programming now and have never
delivered a flop to the customer. The only time I get into a "bind" is when
I am writing something at a personal level and decide I know enough to go
direct to code - then I get to this stage myself. But retreating backwards
and doing it properly has always solved the issue (and you "relearn" the
value of taking the upfront time to do it properly! :-)).

As for your existing "binds", step back from the code and attempt to
diagram/document the structure of your implementation attempt. Hopefully,
this will show you where your problems lay (usually the pieces just don't
fit together because you didn't decompose them from the top - they grew from
the bottom as individual entities with little or no chance of meeting up
together for a harmonious whole). Producing unit tests for pieces of code
that doesn't fit together will not solve the problem. If you still can't see
the "woods for the trees" then at least you will have something you can show
a friend (who hopefully has enough experience to help you out).

Goodluck,
Peter

"Jesse W" <jessw at loop.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998013446.19337.python-list at python.org...
> Dear kindly snake people,
> I have read about, and downloaded, some of the Python unit
> testing frameworks available, but I have never yet been able to
> actually use any one of them to implement actual _tests_. I wish to
> use unit tests(at least, the kind of unit tests used in Extreme
> Programming(I think))because one of the claims of aficionados of
> this approach is that it helps them get over the problem of how to
> make programs that can't be kept in mind as a whole. This amazing
> feat is done, say the aficionados, by writing the unit tests out before
> the code.  I have both great hope and significant doubts about this
> method.
> I hope, as I said above, that this method will allow me to finish
> various projects I have started and had to abandon because I got
> stuck in binds I could not specifically understand or find out how to
> resolve.  My doubts lie with the thought that it is very difficult to
> figure out what the requirements of a program will be before you
> write the program, and will this method make programming into a
> tiresome, irritating task, even if I can write these bigger programs?
> My question to you all is this:  Do you have any suggestions on
> how to deal with learning to use unit testing in this way, or examples
> of setting up games with this kind of unit testing, or GUI programs?
> Really, any thoughts or comments you might have about this form of
> unit testing, or how to learn to use it, would be very appreciated.
>
> Thank you all for your time,
> Jesse F. Weinstein
>




From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Aug 22 23:29:29 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:29:29 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <7xlmkbfr8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <001201c12b83$d1cdf350$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

 Paul Rubin wrote:
> I guess that might be the case, at least with the current body of
> Python programs.  I'm thinking of Python's implementation in terms of
> whether it's suitable for large, long-running programs, and it's
> not clear whether anyone really writes those in Python.

Huh? It seems like the deterministic behavior of reference counting
would be of benefit to large, long-running programs. Or are you thinking
of large, long-running programs that create a lot of cyclic references?

> The combination of RC and GC (or cycle breaking) that's been described
> here sounds like a pretty good approach.  It wasn't described in the
> Python docs that I read, which described a pure RC system, but that's
> ok :).

Cyclic memory collection is a build option and, if enabled at build
time, it can still be disabled using the gc module.




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Fri Aug 24 01:18:32 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 05:18:32 GMT
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
References: <Xw9h7.10076$x84.2967046@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <9m4o38$hl1$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Chris Farley <nbrewer at visi.com> wrote:
> I would like to develop an opensource cross-platform GUI application 
> in PyQt. I would like to distribute a Windows version of the application
> bundled with all the .DLLs needed to run the program, including the Qt
> library. Is it legal to do this? Here's part of the license that is
> giving me headaches.

>   * You may copy and distribute the Software in unmodified form
>   provided that the entire package, including - but not restricted
>   to - copyright, trademark notices and disclaimers, as released
>   by the initial developer of the Software, is distributed.

> Does this mean I can't distribute just the .DLL, and that I need to
> distribute the entire non-commercial version of Qt? Ack!

My understanding is that you can use the gratis version of Qt for
Windows - you can package your Python source, the PyQt binaries, the
Qt dll and perhaps Python itself in one big package and distribute it.
You can't distribute just Python bytecode; you must also make available
the Python source. You don't need to include either the Qt or the PyQt
source. You cannot use your app in a commercial setting yourself, but
people who download it can.  --

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 04:05:55 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 04:05:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310223530.25646-101000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310402440.25646-200000@terbidium.openservices.net>

D'oh.

I already found a problem; the attached patch will fix it.

patch < ecjmodule-secondlist.patch

Then run 'make install' again.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
-------------- next part --------------
--- ecjmodule.c.orig	Fri Aug 31 02:47:04 2001
+++ ecjmodule.c	Fri Aug 31 02:48:23 2001
@@ -27,7 +27,7 @@
 //     n2 = len(seq2)
   if (!PyList_Check(seq2))
   {
-    PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "first argument to merge must be a list");
+    PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "second argument to merge must be a list");
     return NULL;
   };
 

From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 08:06:15 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 05:06:15 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998624031.16670.python-list@python.org> <3b894876@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <7xd75h907c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Eyal Lotem <eyal at hyperroll.com> writes:
> > No, and for several reasons.  The most obvious one is that Python runs on
> > word-addressed machines, where no bits of a pointer are abusable.
> Unless Python runs a more strict allocation policy (Allocate only 
> even-numbered dwords, or limit the allocation storage to half the size).

What machines are those anyway?  How do they deal with byte arrays?


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 21 18:05:26 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 22:05:26 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net> <7x1ym8jyuk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lo5ub1g3p@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xitfj6ezg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o5mp6.lp.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

19 Aug 2001 12:12:35 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> pisze:

> The main bottleneck in C is integer multiplication.  Most computers
> have an integer multiply instruction that multiplies two words and
> gives a doubleword result (32*32->64 bits), so in asm you just use it.
> There's not a good way to code that portably in C, so you end up using
> four 16*16->32 multiplications instead of one 32*32->64
> multiplication.

Gcc is smart enough to compile
    (long long) an_int * (long long) another_int
to one imul instruction.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From phawkins at connact.com  Wed Aug  1 17:28:10 2001
From: phawkins at connact.com (phawkins at connact.com)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 17:28:10 -0400
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <etdy9p81q8t.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9jvsio$j4r$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <wk8zh31ndh.fsf@mail.connact.com>

>>>>> "TB" == Tom Bryan <tbryan at python.net> writes:

TB> At least, I see that the timbot is still explaining why
TB> threading.py does this.

TB> import sys
TB> import time
TB> import thread
TB> import traceback
TB> import StringIO

TB> # Rename some stuff so "from threading import *" is safe

TB> _sys = sys
TB> del sys

TB> _time = time.time
TB> _sleep = time.sleep
TB> del time

This kind of thing is useful when writing a module for public
consumption.  A program that imports threading.py isn't going to wind
up with all sorts of time and sys cruft cluttering its namespace, but
the threading module has access to what it needs.  

This is all about managing what kind of cruft winds up in your
namespace, or your user's namespace; managing who it's visible to; and
making sure that it's named so that it does what you expect it to, and
have some clue about where it came from.

The following idiom would do the same thing as the above example from
threading.py, and is rather less verbose.  (I think "import x as y" is
recent, though, maybe 2.0?)

import time.time as _time

Although the threading.py example is specifically useful when one is
writing a module for consumption by others, rather than just your own
program, it's still good practice to import just what you need, rather
than the whole shebang -- unless you need the whole shebang, or --
ahem -- just don't care. 
Avoid outrageous practices like:

import time.time as spam

and, to be kind to future maintainers of your code (for example, you,
next year) try to reveal rather than conceal the origins of what you
import; and don't make the code behave unexpectedly.  

eg:

import spammityspam.open as spamopen

is way better than

import spammityspam.open as open

and 

import spammityspam
spammityspam.open('fxxx')

works fine too, if you're not concerned by the size of the
spammityspam module.
--
Patricia J. Hawkins
Hawkins Internet Applications, LLC




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug  2 00:59:11 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 00:59:11 -0400
Subject: Python Poll
References: <3B683C20.9E1D8983@cse.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <3B68DE1F.42EF2D25@engcorp.com>

Emmanuel Jeandel wrote:
> 
> I wonder whether s.o has some statistics about : What is python used for?
                   ^^^
(That's the strangest abbreviation I've ever seen.  Good thing you
used it twice or I'd never have known it means "someone".  You
should probably just write it out in full if you want to be 
understood ... this is _not_ a common short form.)

> I would suggest :
> 
> i. Scripts (Bash-like)
> ii. Web (CGI Scripts/ Zope)
> iii. Teaching
> iv. Numerics
> v. Small apps
> vi. Bigger ones

Hmm... mark me down for all of the above, except iii.  

(Unless you mean using Python to teach Python, rather than 
to teach programming, in which case I do all the above...)


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 09:36:42 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:36:42 +0200
Subject: Python Books - Which one?
References: <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4@cyberway.com.sg>
Message-ID: <9mir5d01e5q@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Lim" <paullim at cyberway.com.sg> wrote in message
news:3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4 at cyberway.com.sg...
> Hi to all
>
> I am a newbie in Python programming. I hope the guru can adivse me.
> I would like to acquire a book for my python programming. There are
> generally three main books in my mind
>
> 1. Programming Python by O'Reilly
> 2. The Quick Python Book

Hmmm, you say 3 and list 2 -- that's like the Monty Python
Spanish Inquisition sketch in reverse, right?


> Can anyone recommend to me which is better?
> Or is there any better book out there?
> I am looking for a book that is reader friendly but contain substantial
> material that will last me quite some time.

"Programming Python", 2nd edition, is excellent, and *HUGE* (I
do mean huge!), so it WILL "last you quite some time".  On the
other hand it's not oriented to the newbie: for that, O'Reilly
proposes its "Learning Python" instead -- right now it's still,
alas, about Python 1.5.2, but despite this it's an excellent
learnign resource.

As for "Quick", I personally like it -- doesn't go as deep
as "Learning" into each subject it covers, but that lets it
cover a wider compass, so the trade-off isn't absurd -- a
matter of individual tastes.

If you're new to programming in general, Gauld's "Learning to
Program", Addison-Wesley (much of its material is also online)
is an excellent resource -- it's Python-centered, although it
also mentions other languages more peripherally.  Other books
that are introductory about Python assume you have some other
programming experience in some other language.


Alex





From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 02:56:14 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:56:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996524288.7635.python-list@python.org> <jonathan-D4822F.08343331072001@news.easynet.co.uk> <Xns90EF65598E954michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3B66B3A2.F47BA3E2@engcorp.com> <Xns90EF9A33C3022michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <mailman.996593278.31833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F050FA359C7michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in
news:mailman.996593278.31833.python-list at python.org: 

> 
>     Michael> Well, it's interesting to look at the byte code
>     interpreter source and to consider just how much time and
>     effort is spent in working out what the types of operands
>     are and therefore which particular operation to invoke. 
>     You can't avoid that without static typing of some sort.
> 
> Not so fast, bucko. ;-)
> 
> The prototypical proof-by-existence is Self.  Check out
> 
>     http://www.sun.com/research/self/

Thanks for the reference; quite an intruiging looking language there.  I 
don't really see how this affects my point, though.  I can see a number of 
published papers on optimisation techniques, but most of them seem to be 
about working out a static type inference regime, anyway!

> 
> Also, who said you had to compile your code before running it?  Armin
> Rego has been working on something called Psyco (Python Specializing
> Compiler) that at runtime converts VM bytecodes into another --
> partially typed -- virtual machine based upon the types of the inputs
> it sees. 

Hmm.  Well, with the current interpreter cost, I'm sure there's plenty of 
head-room for small improvements.  

The only real reference I could find for Psyco is this:
    	http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-June/015503.html
which seems recent enough to be definitive.  I'm afraid that a factor of 
two improvement on the existing byte code iterpreter doesn't seem very 
startling to me.




From michael at rcp.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 03:33:55 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:33:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Ben Wolfson <rumjuggler at cryptarchy.org> wrote in
news:kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb at 4ax.com: 

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:37:52 +0100, Stefan Schwarzer
> <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> wrote:
> 
>>Alex Martelli schrieb:
>>>     a=b,c,d=e='wow'
>>
>>Nice, but seems like "obfuscated Python" to me ;-)
>>
>>>>> a,b,c,d,e
>>('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')
>>
>>I haven't yet figured out how it works. Could you please add
>>parantheses to the above expression or clarify otherwise how it works? 
> 
> It's the same as 
>>>> a = (b,c,d) = e = 'wow'
> 

I would say that the criminal obfuscation here comes from the ability to 
perform more than one assignment in a sequence; this is almost as bad as 
treating an assignment as an expression.  If we write this as

    	e = 'wow'
    	b,c,d = e
    	a = b,c,d

then it's quite clear what's going on.  (It's just a=b=c etc I'm grumbling 
about here.)



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 06:35:27 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:35:27 +0200
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org> <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com> <mailman.999094845.12369.python-list@python.org> <3B8ED699.B342BBF0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <Xns910DE5F425785gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194>
Message-ID: <9mnp9g02c8p@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Gordon McMillan" <gmcm at hypernet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns910DE5F425785gmcmhypernetcom at 199.171.54.194...
    ...
> The difference that is germain to this thread is that while
> you can export symbols from an exe, you don't get a lib.

When you link an EXE that exports symbols, you do normally
get a LIB file from it as well.  Try this simple test:

== file thexe.c:
#include <stdio.h>

__declspec(dllexport)
int main() {
    printf("Hello, EXE speaking\n");
    return 0;
}
== end of thexe.c

C:\TEMP\te>cl thexe.c
Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 12.00.8168 for 80x86
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1984-1998. All rights reserved.

thexe.c
Microsoft (R) Incremental Linker Version 6.00.8447
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1992-1998. All rights reserved.

/out:thexe.exe
thexe.obj
   Creating library thexe.lib and object thexe.exp

The last line is a giveaway, of course, but anyway:

C:\TEMP\te>dir
 Volume in drive C is AMACN33ABZ
 Volume Serial Number is 0443-BAE0

 Directory of C:\TEMP\te

08/31/01  12:32p        <DIR>          .
08/31/01  12:32p        <DIR>          ..
08/31/01  12:32p                   117 thexe.c
08/31/01  12:32p                28,672 thexe.exe
08/31/01  12:32p                   524 thexe.exp
08/31/01  12:32p                 1,882 thexe.lib
08/31/01  12:32p                   473 thexe.obj
               7 File(s)         31,668 bytes
                            405,891,072 bytes free


> So to get to the symbols in the exe, you'd have to do it
> yourself, which means a typedef and a GetProcAddress for each
> symbol. Which makes the TCL stubs idea look very good.

I like the stubs idea!  Even though you DO get the .lib
from linking the .exe, I'd much rather not *rely* on it...

> There's a reason extension modules only need to export
> one symbol, you know.

Yep, but it's not that you don't get a lib when linking an
exe [which exports some symbols]:-).


Alex





From sarcangeli at montrouge.sema.slb.com  Tue Aug 21 13:26:53 2001
From: sarcangeli at montrouge.sema.slb.com (Silvio Arcangeli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:26:53 +0100
Subject: asynchronous callback
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010821181349.00aed3d0@popper.montrouge.tt.slb.com>

Hello everybody,
I'm new to this list. My name is Silvio, and I discovered Python just a 
month ago.
I'm currently using it to test the API of a CORBA platform (I use Python to 
test the C API and Jython to test the Java API), it works great.
I have a problem with some operations that are run in background and return 
their result passing a report to a callback function.
In my case the callback function should actually be a Python method.
So I added a C callback function to my extension module: it just converts 
the parameters, and then calls the Python method.
I saw an example implementation of such a technique in the Python cookbook: 
in that case the author stored the Python callback method in a C static 
global variable, but I'm actually using a Python dictionary, cause I can 
have several callback functions and I find this solution more flexible.
Anyway, the C function correctly retrieves the Python method from the 
dictionary, but then when it calls it it gets blocked.
I think that this is probably due to the fact that the C callback function 
is called asynchronously (that means it runs in a different thread from the 
interpreter's one).
How can I make it work?

bye,
Silvio.




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 10:17:58 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:17:58 +0200
Subject: two little syntax questions
References: <MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <9mlhul02eba@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Marcus Stojek" <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684 at news.easynews.net...
> Hi,
>
> Two little syntax questions:
> 1.-----------------------------
> I have a huge dict of 3-tuples. I need the min and max value
> of all tuple[0] entries.
>
> I would like to use reduce. Something like:
>
> nodes[1]=(3,2,5)
> nodes[2]=(-1,2,9)
> nodes[3]=(0,1,6)
> nodes[4]=(2,9,1)
>
> minx = reduce(lambda a,b:min(a,b),nodes???and now what)

I would (as usual) avoid lambda in favour of a "local"
(possibly nested) function -- so you can name it, etc:

def lowtup(previous_lowest, and_a_tuple):
    return min(previous_lowest, and_a_tuple[0])
minx = reduce(lowtup, nodes.values(), nodes[1][0])

It's unusual to have reduce use a function that takes
two *different* types of arguments, but it's OK as
long as:
    -- the function returns a value that's of the
        same type it wants as a first argument,
    -- you call reduce in the 3-argument form, and
        the 3rd argument is OK as a first argument
        to the function you're reducing with.

Note that you need a separate def for the function
used to compute the maxx.

Of course, all of the complications come from your
desire to use reduce -- it's much simpler and much
faster to use min and max directly:

first_items = [x[0] for x in nodes.values()]
minx = min(first_items)
maxx = min(first_items)

> how do I explain: take first entry in tuple for all keyvalues

See the expression I use above for first_items -- it's
a list-comprehension doing just this (except it uses
values, not keys -- keys seem to have nothing to do
with the case, judging from your example).


> 2.------------------------------
>
> I have to print the remaining entries of a list
> (first entries are printed in groups of 8 per line)
>
> lines = len(list)/8
> rest = len(list)%8
> print rest * "i," % (list[lines*8:])
>
> doesn't work. Okay I know print is expecting a tuple and
> list[lines*8:] is not. So how can I transform this into
> a tuple.

I think what you're looking for may be something like:

    if rest: print (rest*"%i ")%tuple(list[-rest:])


Alex





From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Mon Aug  6 18:14:08 2001
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 22:14:08 GMT
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9kn4rg$a5c$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>

Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:

> When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like

>   for(i=0; i<lastI; i++) {
>     justDoIt(i);
>     if( someTest(i) ) break;
>   }
>   /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
>   for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
>     doSomethingElse(i);
>   }

> The nice thing is that this is safe even if someTest never becomes
> true in the first loop.

> How would I do that in python, in particular when looping over list
> elements rather than just over numbers.

When looping over a list, how about this:

    lit = iter(haralds_list)
    for item in lit:
	justDoIt(lit)
	if someTest(lit):
	    break
    for item in lit:
	doSomethingElse(lit)

It doesn't work if you are using some stone-age version of
Python, like the two and a half week old 2.1.1.  You've got
to use something modern, like 2.2a1 (which seems to actually
be a couple of days *older* than 2.1.1...).


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have    !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 only proved it correct, not tried it."      !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From rolo at foobar.org  Thu Aug 16 18:02:36 2001
From: rolo at foobar.org (Rolo Tomasi)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 22:02:36 GMT
Subject: readline and interpreter commandline support on SGI
Message-ID: <slrn9noh09.pk4.rolo@foobar.org>

I am building Python 2.1.1 on SGI IRIX64 platform.
I have downloaded and installed the GNU readline package
from GNU.  I am having trouble figuring out how to tell
the Python 2.1.1 build to:

	- build readline into the interpreter

	- use the include and lib paths where my readline is
          installed during the Python build.

I want to be able to use the command completion, editing, and
history features at the Python interpreter.  

Has anyone done this on SGI.  The Solaris and Linux platforms
I have built Python 2.1.1 on have all been easy to get readline
support at the commandline to build and work.

Please help.

Thanks



From joe at strout.net  Sat Aug 11 12:05:26 2001
From: joe at strout.net (Joe Strout)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:05:26 GMT
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net> <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <100820011208059612%joe@strout.net> <kusnezb0f0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <110820010905296049%joe@strout.net>

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article <kusnezb0f0.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

> || python no longer uses pcre, the pcre based regexp module
> || was replaced by a new unicode-aware implementation called sre (written
> || by Fredrik Lundh). sre is much faster too...
> 
> | Wow, I didn't know that.  Where can I find out more about sre?
> 
> afraid i don't know of any docs on the internals. i think
> the regex compiler is written in python, so you may need
> to embed python if you plan to use it in another software package.

OK, thanks again.  We can't do that in our case, so I guess we'll just
fix PCRE -- it seems to be 90% there anyway.

Best regards,
- Joe

-- 
,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe at strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug 18 03:53:06 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:53:06 GMT
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <pg7sntks9t21gugt1beiladbnf7gv73epn@4ax.com>

>You may ague until you'e blue in the face (and pobably lose
>the contact) o you may make good money witing C++ -- it's
>you choice.  If the custome specified that the lette '' neve
>be used anywhee in you souce, afte tying and failing to
>convince them that this is iational (oyste eating has to do
>with thee being an '' in the *month name*, NOT in the
>*souce code*), and checking that they'e willing to pay what
>it takes, wouldn't you give it a ty?

:)

C//



From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Fri Aug 17 06:08:25 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:08:25 +0200
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
Message-ID: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Greetings, fellow Pythoneers,

I am currently working on an application that works with a simple, but
relatively large data structure: a large list, with its items being
strings, 3-4 lines long each.

Now the list is shelved and I am accessing its items pretty randomly.
I've found the access times to be rather slow. So my questions are:

- Would using a dictionary make access faster?

- Is there a faster method for saving and accessing my stuff?

- Would saving the data as one big text file with separators/indexes and
a good search algorithm be faster? (Since my strings won't exceed a
certain length, maybe defining a max size for each item and then seeking
into the file with, say, 5-line distances?)

Thanks a lot for your help,

Dietmar


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Sun Aug  5 02:59:45 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 06:59:45 GMT
Subject: Using import in an exec'ed string
Message-ID: <9kiqt1$5v3$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

I'm wondering why, if I give a customized globals
and locals parameter to exec, import doesn't work
anymore (that is, it doesn't anything to the namespace.):


a="""
import string

def f():
	print string.split("aaa aaa")

f()"""

exec(a)

----------------



a="""
import string

def f():
	print string.split("aaa aaa")

f()"""

exec(a, {}, {})


(Note that in the larger program I'm working with,
I don't simply clear globals - I add a few functions
to it, that's all, but it has the same result).

Could anyone enlighten me?


-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 11:07:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:07:30 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <150a315e5c.15e5c150a3@destiny.com>
Message-ID: <086301c11e8a$3c85b400$0300a8c0@arthur>

<mcherm at destiny.com> writes:
    ...
> Alex Martelli writes:
> > I don't request
> > a language that will in fact absolutely CHECK assertions containing
> > universal or existential quantifiers, nor one that will always be
    ...
> Alex, I strongly agree with your proposal that a language allow
> the expression of assertions which are STRONGER than what the
> language guarantees to deliver.

Great, that makes two of us!-)

> The closest thing I've found is programming by contract features
> in Eiffel, but that's really not perfect. I've always felt that

Agreed -- no quantifiers.  But it IS a good thing that, although
the Eiffel *philosophy* is so strongly oriented to *compile-time*
checks, in fact all of the PbC stuff (which basically has to be
checked at *run* time, just about always) still IS in the language.


> I'll give another example of how I think it could be used. In
    ...
> And if you're starting with something like Python, than you can
> ONLY improve things... if the "hints" were implemented and then
> ignored (always using array-list), then we'd be exactly where we
> are right now, plus hints.

Yes, lovely idea.  Actually, if the 'hints' were given in a formal
way to a factory-function, it *might* be possible for the function
to pick different kinds of containers -- and even if the function
(in the current implementation) ignored the hints and just served
a completely general container (Python list), no loss.  But it
would be quite feasible to have debug-mode (factory function
serves up a UserList derivative that checks the hints are in
fact accurate and warns otherwise), fast-compile-mode (factory
function just serves up a list), optimize-mode (factory function
picks the right container based on the hints).

Now all we need is design a suitable hint-language and we can
prototype this...


> Anyway, I think that "compiler hints" are MORE useful in other
> places (like invariants, preconditions, etc) which are more
> useful overall and more easily ammenable to compile-time testing
> or debug-version testing, but this is an additional application
> of the concept that I just wanted to throw out there.

And very interesting BECAUSE it's reasonably easily prototypable
right now... I think next time I design a system that includes
factory functions I'll be thinking about a hint-language to go
with it, too:-).


Alex



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 22 06:36:06 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:36:06 +0200
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998473353.18926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m01um01dcc@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Simon Brunning" <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.998473353.18926.python-list at python.org...
> > From: Paul Rubin [SMTP:phr-n2001 at nightsong.com]
> > Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> > collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead
> > of Lisp-style garbage collection?
>
> AFAIK, it uses *both* as of Python 2.0. (If I'm wrong, I'm sure that
someone
> will correct me!)

Yes, but it's not "automatic" for a C-written extension
type to participate correctly in the GC implementation:
if instances of the extension type hold PyObject*'s, the
type must make a (small) effort to cooperate with the
garbage collector, which is optional (to ensure old C
extensions keep working).  So, the GC cannot guarantee
that all reference-loop garbage is collected -- for
example, it won't be if a non-cooperating C extension
type object is part of the loop.  Finalizers (__del__)
also give problems to garbage collectors -- last I heard
(not sure if this is still true), a loop is not finalized
if it includes objects with finalizers, because the order
of finalization calls that would work (if any) is not
determined.  (However, such loops are *collected* --
they're just not *finalized*, but rather added to a
list of uncollectable-garbage in module gc -- your
program can look for them there, and finalize them
itself if it knows how do this for those specific
kinds of objects).

Take this with a grain of salt -- I haven't been looking
at gc in quite a while:-).  Anyway, the advantage of
reference counting is clear -- when and if it works,
finalization of an object happens at the very moment
it becomes unreachable, rather than at some later,
unpredictable time.  People used to RC's strengths have
a hard time adapting to the "whenever I get around to
it" attitude of mark-and-sweep GC -- witness the furious
debate among long-time COM programmers when they learned
that .NET would NOT use reference counting but rather
mark-and-sweep (so, no guaranteed finalization time).

Python as a language is migrating from a reference count
background towards m&s GC -- gradually and slowly.  The
Jython implementation is already fully-m&s-GC as it leaves
things up to the JVM, which of course IS m&s.  CPython
still does RC (guaranteed finalization and all) BUT the
*language* doesn't guarantee it any more -- nor does it
absolutely guarantee that all reference loops will be
reclaimed, either (they will in Jython, but some may
escape in CPython, see above).  So you code try/finally,
because relying on finalization-at-deallocation-time is
not portable, AND you avoid reference loops if you can
to avoid THAT can of worms...:-).


Alex





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 14:53:40 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:53:40 -0700
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution 
 needed
References: <Pyth7.2557$H%.69407@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <3B86A2B3.2013FFC1@ccvcorp.com>

"Szczepan Ho?yszewski" wrote:

> I just downloaded Python-2.1.1.exe installer and, guess, I'm getting that
> "Corrupt installation detected." box.

......

Which installer? (Pythonlabs or ActiveState? or PythonWare?)

I'm sure that this can be done without NT--I just installed Pythonlabs 2.1.1 and
win32all on a win98 box two days ago.  But the different distributions *do* use
significantly different install procedures, so it's difficult to help unless we
know which one you're using.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From wware at world.std.com  Wed Aug 22 23:41:00 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:41:00 GMT
Subject: Python enums revisited
Message-ID: <GII4wC.D5z@world.std.com>

""" I once tried to give Python something like C's enums, as
described here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=G6qzLy.6Fo%40world.std.com
That approach had the flaw of trying to assign to a dictionary
returned by the locals() function, intending that such assignments
would become class attributes, but that isn't guaranteed to work
in future versions of Python. The present line of thinking was
prompted by the "name-->method lookup" thread.
"""

import types, string, pprint

def attachEnums(clas, enumList):
    i = 0
    for x in enumList:
        if type(x) == types.TupleType:
            x, i = x
        assert type(x) == types.StringType
        assert type(i) == types.IntType  # allow longs???
        setattr(clas, x, i)
        try: clas.enumNames[i] = x
        except AttributeError: clas.enumNames = {i: x}
        i = i + 1

class MidiEvent:
    """MidiEvent is a class"""
    def __repr__(self):
        # It's handy to be able to reverse-lookup the names of the
        # enum values. C doesn't offer this feature.
        return ("<MidiEvent %s>" %
                (self.enumNames[self.type]))


attachEnums(MidiEvent,
            ["NOTE_ON",
             "NOTE_OFF",
             "ANOTHER_MIDI_EVENT",
             "SOME_OTHER_MIDI_EVENT",
             ("CONTROLLER_CHANGE", 500),
             ("POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", 271828),
             # many many more...
             ])

for x in string.split(
"""
m = MidiEvent()   # MidiEvent is a class, m is an instance
m.type = MidiEvent.POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE
print m

# Notice that m's attributes include neither the enums themselves nor
# the enumNames dictionary. These are CLASS attributes, not INSTANCE
# attributes, and that means you can create vast numbers of MidiEvent
# instances with reckless abandon, never worrying that namespaces and
# memory will become cluttered with redundant copies of your enums.
pprint.pprint(MidiEvent.__dict__)
print m.__dict__
""", "\n"):
    if x and x[:1] != '#':
        print ">>>", x
        exec x
    else:
        print x

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Thu Aug 23 08:23:18 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:23:18 +0100
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998537374.7817.python-list@python.org> <7xd75nnza2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m3lgf$ljv$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
>Why is determinism such an issue?

Because I'm working with a C library that maintains its own
set of interdependencies that need to be deallocated in the
correct order.

In addition, the library is used by C and Fortran code, so
the API exposes pointers as integer handles rather than raw
pointer values.  This means there's a table somewhere with
a list of all objects created by the library.

No gc scheme I know of is smart enough to automatically figure
out which integer gets mapped to a pointer, what the
dependencies are between the integer handles, and which API
function to call to deallocate things.

So the determinisism of ref counting lets me put my dependency
scheme on top of things to ensure that everything is done in
the order expected by the library.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From web.mail at lycos.com  Mon Aug 27 05:58:18 2001
From: web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 02:58:18 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs - Summary (Long)
Message-ID: <270c68fe.0108270158.616fa221@posting.google.com>

Thanks to everyone that has contributed via email and posting. Here is the
promised summary. 


Open Source IDEs

1. IDLE - comes with the standard Python distribution. (/Tools/idle in your
Python Distribution)

2. IDLEfork - "just like IDLE, only crunchy". An experimental fork of IDLE.
<http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/>

3. PythonWin - comes with ActiveState Python. Based on IDLE. Has a couple of
nice, extra features, but basically the same animal. Good choice for Windows
developers.  <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/>

4. BOA Constructor - has a wxPython GUI Builder. Aims "to be a simple Delphi
for wxPython." <http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/>


Commercial IDEs (Some with free evaluation or free limited use)

5. Komodo - ActiveState's cross-language IDE. Looks like it would be
really cool if you were working on a Perl/Python/XSLT/PHP system.
<http://www.activestate.com/Products/Productivity/ASPN_Komodo/>

6. PythonWorks Pro - from SecretLabs. Very cool looking IDE. Has a
layout editor for Tk. Might take a few days to get the hang of.
<http://www.secretlabs.com/products/works/index.htm>

7. BlackAdder - from TheKompany. Has all of the features of IDLE +
support for Ruby + GUI editor for Qt.
<http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/> 

8. VisualPython - from ActiveState. A Python plug-in for Visual
Studio.NET Beta 2. A colleague of mine tried it and it works. 
<http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/VisualPython/> 

9. Wing IDE - from Archaeopteryx. Very nice code browsing environment.
<http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide>


Not What I'd Call an IDE, But Worthy of Mention

10. PyCrust - "an interactive Python Shell written in Python using wxPython and
the Scintilla wrapper class." 
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust/>

11. Leo - A Literate Programming tool that does Python. I am tempted to try
this one day.
<http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html> 

12. SciTE - "A free source code editor for Win32 and X". Used in bunches of
IDEs.
<http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html>

13. Emacs. Is there anything Emacs can't do? I wouldn't be suprised to hear of
a Python GUI builder for wxWindows, Qt and Tk, all written in Emacs :)

14. wxDesigner - A wxWindows GUI builder that has Python bindings as well as
C++. I didn't get to have a good look at this - maybe it is more than a GUI
builder.
<http://www.roebling.de/>


More Resources

Boudewijn Rempt has an article about Python IDEs at InformIT
(<http://www.informit.com> Search for 'Boudewijn'. Free registration required.)
It was posted last November, and things seem to have moved on a bit since then.
Never-the-less, a good starting point if you want to know what to look for in
an IDE.  Boudewijn said he will be updating the article "shortly". There were 4
products reviewed last time, will there be 14 products reviewed this time?
<cheeky grin>

A review of Python IDEs from David Mertz (May 2001):
<http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pide/>


And finally, it's worth saying that all of these IDEs are quite different, so
try at least three IDEs before you pick one.

Enjoy,

Alan.


From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 29 23:07:50 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:07:50 GMT
Subject: Python Books - Which one?
References: <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4@cyberway.com.sg> <9mir5d01e5q@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b8da838.53771759@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:36:42 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

:"Paul Lim" <paullim at cyberway.com.sg> wrote in message
:news:3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4 at cyberway.com.sg...
:> Hi to all
:>
:> I am a newbie in Python programming. I hope the guru can adivse me.
:> I would like to acquire a book for my python programming. There are
:> generally three main books in my mind
:>
:> 1. Programming Python by O'Reilly
:> 2. The Quick Python Book
:
:Hmmm, you say 3 and list 2 -- that's like the Monty Python
:Spanish Inquisition sketch in reverse, right?

I'm more worried that it's the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

:> Can anyone recommend to me which is better?
:> Or is there any better book out there?
:> I am looking for a book that is reader friendly but contain substantial
:> material that will last me quite some time.
:
:"Programming Python", 2nd edition, is excellent, and *HUGE* (I
:do mean huge!), so it WILL "last you quite some time".  On the
:other hand it's not oriented to the newbie: for that, O'Reilly
:proposes its "Learning Python" instead -- right now it's still,
:alas, about Python 1.5.2, but despite this it's an excellent
:learnign resource.

:As for "Quick", I personally like it -- doesn't go as deep
:as "Learning" into each subject it covers, but that lets it
:cover a wider compass, so the trade-off isn't absurd -- a
:matter of individual tastes.

LP seems to be on Mark's list to update soon (he's probably working on
it now).  I didn't like it very much when I first read it: thought
there were too many digressions, too much discussions of what /could/
go wrong, long before I ran into them.  Then I examined the way I was
teaching tech classes (not Python classes at the time), and realized I
did the same thing:  built up a body of pitfalls and dealt with them
pre-emptively.  Then someone told me not to do that in class and I
agree but in a book I'd do what Mark did (conceptually, that is; I'm
not claiming I could /execute/ the writing of a book of this quality).

So's there a point?  It's not right for everyone.  The Quick Python
approach suits my style better: I see what's going on, and I can dig
into corners later. If you've got a book store handy that carries
them, flip through several intros and see which style appeals to your
learning style.  If you don't know your learning style, it's worth
getting in touch with it, you'll need to work with it all through your
life...

Still meaning to pick up Wesley Chun's book but the budget's a bit
tight at the moment...

Programming Python is definitely the SECOND step, not the first book.




Mats Wichmann



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 07:39:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:39:43 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    ...
> why is b2.getStory not getStory? Is it because importing from a isn't
> the same as the importing from the __main__ module?

Exactly.  You have two instances of the module, one referred
to by sys.modules['__main__'] and the other by sys.modules['a'].


> What is the correct way to import from the main script?

import __main__


Alex





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sun Aug 12 11:12:16 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 11:12:16 -0400
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
In-Reply-To: <1212619.RQshPE9Mp6@lunix.schabi.de>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
	<mailman.997359736.9019.python-list@python.org>
	<1212619.RQshPE9Mp6@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <oqae1548j3.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Markus Schaber]

> I just use "..." for strings and '...' chars (Strings containing one
> char - this comes from Java where Chars can be given this way),

It might not be a good thing transporting all style habits from one
language to another.  In C or Java, it is true you did not have the choice.
In Python, you could put the acquired freedom to good use, instead of
forever and patiently pulling your prisoner's bullet with you :-).

I quite understand that writing styles are acquired with non-negligible
efforts, and grow their own worth because of this.  So, it is only normal
trying to recycle the most we can from them when wandering between languages.
On the other hand, some distance between styles for various languages
does help avoiding cross-confusion, it eases your own "context switching"
as a programmer, by having it more marked and less fuzzy.

Let me quote a example taken from my own little experience.  I conform
to most GNU standards when I write C, and to most Guido's standards when
I write Python.  So, in C, I would write "function (argument)" while in
Python I would write "function(argument)".  Despite a bit annoying in the
very beginning, that simple difference comes to be helping after a while.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 22 18:41:46 2001
From: ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:41:46 -0400
Subject: sys._exit()
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010822183825.02c21030@mail.mindspring.com>

The 2.1 docs say:

-----------------------
_exit(n)

Exit to the system with status n, without calling cleanup handlers, 
flushing stdio buffers, etc. Availability: Unix, Windows.

Note: the standard way to exit is sys.exit(n). _exit() should normally only 
be used in the child process after a fork().
-----------------------

What would be the motivation for a child process of a fork to _exit() 
instead of exit()? e.g., why wouldn't the child wish to cleanup handlers, 
flush stdio buffers, etc.? Does anyone use _exit()?


-Chuck




From hunjoong_lee at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 20:11:14 2001
From: hunjoong_lee at yahoo.com (hunjoong_lee at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:11:14 -0000
Subject: how to import upstream module 
Message-ID: <9kv8r2+btqb@eGroups.com>

 I tried to run script on aria2 folder.         
 (C:\cns_solve\aria1\aria2\analysis)
 That script called module in upper folder but failed
 It can import any module in sub folder.(C:\cns_solve\aria1\aria2\..)
 ( from analysis import *)
 I don' know how to make it.
 Can you help me?
 Hunjoong
 

 




From tim at zope.com  Wed Aug 22 15:22:28 2001
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:22:28 -0400
Subject: Possible BUG in Python2.x sre and threaded import locking
In-Reply-To: <fb060039.0108220737.2f05d2fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHMEIBCFAA.tim@zope.com>

[Joe Kelly]
> There appears to be a bug in the way Python2.x does import locking on
> sre.  This is illustrated by the following code fragments.
> ...

Never write a module M so that M spawns threads as a side-effect of merely
being imported.  Follow that advice and you'll be happy.  In current CVS you
can read the comments in Lib/test/test_threaded_import.py for clues as to
why, but much easier just to follow that rule.

anything-else-is-fighting-the-universe-and-the-universe-usually-
    wins-ly y'rs  - tim




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 03:59:35 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 00:59:35 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> writes:
> > 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> > real and imaginary parts separately? 

> >>> a = 3+4j
> >>> dir(a)
> ['conjugate', 'imag', 'real']
> >>> a.imag

Thanks.  Can you tell me if that's documented anywhere?  

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesnumeric.html

describes the conjugate() operation but not the real or imag members.
I'd like to report that as a deficiency in the documentation.

> >>> import types
> >>> a = 3
> >>> isinstance(a, types.IntType)
> 1

Thanks!  I can probably find that in the module docs.

> > 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
> >    branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
> >    implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
> >    Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.
> 
> I am not sure what this question is asking so I will leave it to others to 
> answer.

It's a math thing, you might not want to know.  But basically:
cmath.sqrt(-1 + .01j) is very close to 1j, while cmath.sqrt(-1 - .01j)
is very close to -1j.  This discontinuity in the sqrt function is
called a branch cut.  It's where the sqrt function implementation
switches between returning the "positive" and "negative" square root.
Other functions like sin, cos, and log also have branch cuts.  The
location of the branch cuts depend on precisely how the functions are
implemented.  The Scheme and Common Lisp standards specify the exact
location of branch cuts but the cmath documentation doesn't say
anything about them.  So I think Python should adopt the Scheme/Common
Lisp standards.

Here's another dumb question, about the for loop: if I want to add
up the first 100 numbers in the naive way, am I really supposed to say

   sum = 0
   for i in range(101) :
     sum = sum + i

and if I say that, will range(101) really malloc up and populate an
array of length 100?  That's pretty horrible in terms of memory use
just to to make the syntax elegant (shades of APL).  I saw something
about iterators in the Python 2.2 notes so maybe there's a fix in 2.2
but I'm using 2.1.1 for now.

Thanks again

Paul


From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Fri Aug 17 11:59:15 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:59:15 +0200
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com> <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <tlfqnt84r54idgtstjanugkvhn86tp1qlq@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:41:12 +0200, "robin and jim" <robinjim at earthlink.net>
wrote:

>You are quite correct (according to my version of the documentation -- and
>in my experience with using the tool); setUp and tearDown are called for
>each test so you always start and end from a known state. <wink>

I'd argue that if you want to do setup and teardown actions for each
individual test, you can code the actions in the test. But there's no way to
code a setup for a series of tests. For example, in a database application,
you may want to create a connection in setUp(), run a series of queries in
tests, and then close the connection in tearDown(). Creating and closing a
connection per test could well be an unacceptable overhead. To my way of
thinking, this is the common case (of setup/teardown actions), and should be
easy to do. Setup and teardown actions which have such a low overhead as to be
OK to do for each test would seem to be less common. (Indeed, that's how the
docs describe setUp and tearDown, as high-overhead actions, IIRC.)

Paul.



From barry at zope.com  Thu Aug  2 16:26:12 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:26:12 -0400
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
	<20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
	<etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <15209.46948.962877.501742@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "A" == Alex  <new_name at mit.edu> writes:

    A> Actually, are the mailing lists mirrored anywhere?  I've gotten
    A> stuck a couple of times for the want of them.

The mailing lists are all on mail.python.org a completely different
machine than www.python.org (not even in the same building, and soon,
probably not even on the same continent :).

AFAIK, the list archives are not mirrored anywhere.

-Barry



From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug  1 22:29:19 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 02:29:19 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996714310.2991.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b68b5ce.1031682601@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:04:16 -0700, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:
[...]
OT
>"/". Life goes on. Get used to it. I'm told Presidents of the United
>States make mistakes and life goes on then too. I have a strong feeling
>that if either Python or a country was run by consensus, there would be
>more mistakes not less.
Hopefully the country (US) is run by consensus of our representatives, but
even so, "Life goes on" seems like something we shouldn't take too much
for granted. I just pray that they never get to where they have a full
consensus that they want to reverse an old decision, and can not do it,
even with all the might of the country at their disposal.

I guess I think there ought to be a law against (any more) irreversible
decisions with global effects, as best we can manage that.



From hnowak at cuci.nl  Wed Aug 15 08:18:14 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:18:14 +0200
Subject: Module Name
Message-ID: <3B7C02CC@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Kerim Borchaev" <warkid at storm.ru> =====
>  Thanks - it worked.
>
>  But what does it mean "module object"?
>  When I pass MyModule0Name ( without quotes ) to loadTestsFromModule
>  - do I pass "module object" or what?

Yes; the import statement creates a module object in the current namespace. 
Compare:

>>> import unittest
>>> unittest
<module 'unittest' from 'd:\python21\lib\unittest.pyc'>
>>> type(unittest)
<type 'module'>
>>> "unittest"
'unittest'
>>> type("unittest")
<type 'string'>
>>>

Modules are first-class objects, just like integers, strings, etc. This means, 
among other things, that you can pass them to functions, inspect them, etc. 
(Unlike languages like, for example, Pascal, where "uses MyUnit;" does not 
create an object MyUnit available for use.)

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 09:23:59 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:23:59 -0400
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net> <3B789CC6.2FD7FFB5@engcorp.com> <3b78b4b2@news.actrix.gen.nz> <3B791B01.6E694928@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B79266F.7B209804@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Mark Rowe wrote:
> >
> > Windows NT: You can use the CreateFile function to open a disk drive or a
> > partition on a disk drive. The function returns a handle to the disk device;
> > that handle can be used with the DeviceIOControl function. The following
> > requirements must be met in order for such a call to succeed:
> >
> > The lpFileName string should be of the form \\.\PHYSICALDRIVEx to open the
> > hard disk x.
> 
[...]
> I wonder whether you've answered the original question, however,
> with the part about "The caller must have administrative privileges
> for the operation to succeed on a hard disk drive." ?

Hmm.. Actually I wonder whether the part about DeviceIOControl
answers it better.  Does that mean you can't do normal reads
and writes, in essence treating the hard drive as a big file?
That's very likely the case, in which case it looks like the
OP read the CreateFile docs above and just assumed it was
possible to read/write directly after opening the drive that
way.

But this probably still has nothing to do with Python, right?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 14 12:53:27 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:53:27 +0200
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
References: <9lb1ut$a7i$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <72lbl9.j62.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:31:34 +0200, Carsten Schr?der wrote:
>Hello!
>
>May anybody please tell me which GERMAN book suits best for a python
>beginner?

Unfortunately, there aren't that many Python books in German. But be sure to
stay away from "Jetzt lerene ich Python", from Markt und Technik (surprise,
surprise, ...) This book is just a waste of paper.

I'd probably go for "Einf?hrung in Python" by Mark Lutz and David Ascher.

You can also read the readers' remarks on http://www.amazon.de 

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From woodm at equire.com  Wed Aug 15 16:54:35 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:54:35 -0600
Subject: Which is the best way...
Message-ID: <3B7AE18B.2070001@equire.com>

I have an interesting code-correctness question.  I firmly believe in 
doing things 'The Right Way' and I'm not sure which of these 3 blocks is 
better.  So, if you code-guru's could help me out I would definitely 
appreciate it.



###################################################

#!/usr/bin/env python

list_a = ['a', 'b', 'e', 'c', 'd']
list_b = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e']


# Will fail if list *is* in order
def first_non_ordered_dumb (my_list) :
       for index in range(len(my_list)) :
               if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
                       return index - 1


# Works, but I do that 'if' for every element
# Even though I know that it only matters on the last one.
def first_non_ordered_1 (my_list) :
       last_index = len(my_list) - 1
       for index in range(len(my_list)) :
               if index == last_index :
                       return None

               if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
                       return index + 1


# Works, but how much overhead is there in the slicing of the range list?
def first_non_ordered_2 (my_list) :
       for index in range(len(my_list))[:-1] :
               if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
                       return index + 1

       else :
               return None


# Works, but how efficient is the try-except stuff
# when compared to the two above?
def first_non_ordered_3 (my_list) :
       try :
               for index in range(len(my_list)) :
                      if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
                               return index + 1

       except IndexError :
               return None



for my_list in (list_a, list_b) :
       print my_list
       #print 'dumb:', first_non_ordered_dumb(my_list)
       print '1:', first_non_ordered_1(my_list)
       print '2:', first_non_ordered_2(my_list)
       print '3:', first_non_ordered_3(my_list)


#########################################

I guess I could do it with a while loop, but that always seemed messy.  
A 'C for loop' would work better than a 'python for loop' here, and 
usually that seems to indicate a 'while loop' should be used in python.  
But I MUCH prefer 'for loops' to 'while loops'.  What do you guys think?

Or, as is usually the case, did I miss something that makes the problem 
much easier.




From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 31 15:00:12 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 12:00:12 -0700
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
References: <mailman.999278389.32583.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9momrs02vql@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.999278389.32583.python-list at python.org>, "Tim says...
>
>... If you suffer KFG (Kneejerk Fear of Goto)...

Naw, I don't.  In fact, in assembly, I use 'em all the time <wink>.

But I live in a world that mostly _does_ suffer from KFG, so not using them can
save a lot of explaining (except here <wink>.)  And more importantly, on a
purely pragmatic basis, nearly every time I've put them in, I've ended up taking
them out.

However, the cases I've stuck with them have all been things I would have done
"try/except" in Python, or "try/catch" in C++, so I agree that gotos are the
best thing C has for that.

suffering-from-a-kneejerk-fear-of-suffering
   -a-kneejerk-fear-of-gotos-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 28 06:12:56 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 03:12:56 -0700
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <7xu1ys8pcn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Piotr Legiecki" <piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl> writes:
> How can I tell python to give me only 2 digits after decimal point? And
> of course store it in a variable.
> 
> So I want 'c' to be 3.33.

print '%.2f' % c


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sat Aug 25 14:25:14 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:25:14 GMT
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
References: <mailman.998717078.21823.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e4Sh7.174238$g_3.29589142@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Interesting.  Thanks!  This is added to my archive :)
Maan

"Jesse F. W" <jessefw at loop.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998717078.21823.python-list at python.org...
> Greetings to all you large snake fanciers,
> Maan M. Hamze wrote:
> > Is it possible to link Dictionary values of each key into a text file?
> This is probably more tricky and cute than you really need, but it is
> so tricky and cute I could not resist posting it on the list.
>
> In Python 2.2 and later...
>
> import types, os
>
> class FileDict(dictionary):
> def __getitem__(self, key):
> value=dictionary.__getitem__(self, key)
> if os.access(value, os.R_OK):
> return open(value).read()
> raise ValueError, 'Value is not a readable file!'
>
> class FunctionDict(dictionary):
> def __getitem__(self, key):
> return dictionary.__getitem__(self, key)()
>
> class FileAndFunctionDict(dictionary):
> def __getitem__(self, key):
> value=dictionary.__getitem__(self, key)
> if type(value) == types.FunctionType:
> return value()
> if os.access(value, os.R_OK):
> return open(value).read()
> raise ValueError, 'Value is not a readable file!'
>
> I only downloaded Python 2.2 _today_ and already I am using
> the class/type unification features!<0.5 wink>
> >  So the value of a key is a text file somewhere on the PC.  And if so,
> > how do I instruct Python to open the text file and print into screen
> > when the key of the text file is used? Also, is it possible to link a
> > value of a Dictionary key into a Python function/procedure?  So, if
> > the key is encountered, a way for the functionprocedure to be run.
> > Maan
>
>
>
>




From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Sun Aug  5 14:51:49 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:51:49 +0100
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <fg7jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <tc5rmtseqidi4h1f4j9uct0c9hm4tudpum@4ax.com>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:34:55 +0200, gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard
H?ring) wrote:

>On 4 Aug 2001 21:41:11 -0700, Lang <bob at tharin.com> wrote:
>>Any cgi/web person out there,
>>
>>I wrote a couple cgi scripts that I use to manage a database.  When I
>>send changes through a form, it calls a script that makes the database
>>commit.  Once it is done with the commit, it prints out a return
>>button (that's all that shows up on the page) which needs to be pushed
>>to return to the main page.  How do I call the script, run the commit,
>>and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?
>
>The solution Roman proposed works, but the following is technically better :-)
>It uses features of the HTTP protocol instead.
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
>print "Status-Code: 301"                        # Moved permanently
>print "Location: http://www.rfceditor.org/"     # New location
>print ""                                        # Newline ends HTTP header

Coming from a perl background I was surprised there isn't a header
building function in the cgi module ... any reason behind this, or did
they just not think of it?

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From bawolk at ucdavis.edu  Wed Aug  8 00:06:15 2001
From: bawolk at ucdavis.edu (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:06:15 -0700
Subject: PyQt install problem
Message-ID: <3B70BAB7.A9C3061C@ucdavis.edu>

I compiled the sip-2.4.tar.gz  and   PyQt-2.4.tar.gz versions under
Red Hat 7.1 against Qt2.3 and Python 2.1, both without any errors.  When
I run the PyQt examples as root, I get the following message, but the
examples run:

Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the
authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based
authentication failed
Xlib:  extension "RENDER" missing on display ":0.0".

When I run as a normal user, I get the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./aclock.py", line 4, in ?
    from qt import *
  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/qt.py", line 43, in ?
    import libqtc
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/libqtcmodule.so: undefined
symbol: __11QSizePolicyQ211QSizePolicy8SizeTypeT1b


I have tried everything I can think of to solve this problem, but am
stumped.  Does anyone have any ideas?

Bruce




From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Aug 25 03:43:17 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:43:17 -0000
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242315560.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net> <mailman.998711737.11288.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <998725397.170344@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Dave Cinege <dcinege at psychosis.com>:
[... why not sys.argv ]
| Why I didn't do this:
|
| 1) From what I've looked at, the current sys code would change
| dramatically as it's already dealing in copies of argv initialized
| at python startup, and not by accessing  Py_GetArgcArgv() dynamically.
| What I did is less intrusive and portable outside of sys.
...
| 3) It's not yet exactly clear (to me) to what extent you can alter argv
| and not impeed portability. This is probably reason enough to segregate this
| functionality. (On linux it stacks argv elements concurrently in memory and
| it's safe to use that total space anyway you want. Who knows
| how other OS's deal with it...)

Indeed, who does know.  You can find a fairly exhaustive treatment
in recent sendmail sources, but in the end that only demonstrates
what a can of worms this is.  Since it's of questionable value
anyway, you were right to write it in a way that you can easily
maintain for your own purposes.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Aug 10 20:08:42 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 20:08:42 -0400
Subject: `multirun.py'
Message-ID: <oqsnez31bp.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

Hello, my friends.  I keep rewriting code to execute things in parallel,
without needing the full capabilities of the `threading' module, so I just
packaged the following little module, named `multirun.py'.  Criticize! :-)

-------------- next part --------------
# Handle simple case of uniform multi-processor function.
# Copyright ? 2001 Progiciels Bourbeau-Pinard inc.
# Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca>, 2001.

"""
This module offers a very simple API for the common case of threaded
execution of relatively independent requests, using many agent processes
all reading from a single common input queue.  The overall usage scheme is:

    import multirun
    multi = multirun.Multi(AGENTS, SIZE)
    ...
    multi.do(FUNCTION, ARG1, ARG2, ...)
    ...
    multi.wrapup()

AGENTS is the number of threads for serving requests, while SIZE is the
maximum size of the wait request queue.  There are usually many calls to
`multi.do', meant to be executed in parallel, more or less.  If all agents
are already busy at the time of a `multi.do' request, the request is put into
the queue of waiting requests.  If the queue already holds SIZE requests,
`multi.do' blocks until there is some room in the queue.  Any freed agent
takes a request from the queue and calls:

    FUNCTION(ARG1, ARG2, ...)

FUNCTION is typically I/O bound or network bound, or a sleeping function.
If AGENTS was zero, `multi.do' executes FUNCTION without any delay.

Finally, `multi.wrapup()' waits for all agents to be freed, and destroy them.
In fact, it is fully equivalent to `multi.set_agents(0)'.  By using:

    multi.set_agents(AGENTS)

one can dynamically change the number of processing agents, which are
created or killed as required, but only once they get free, of course.
It can be used after a `multi.wrapup()' to revive the service.

A few other methods are provided for convenience.  Each separate `Multi'
instance has its own single, all purpose user lock.  Sections of code,
within various FUNCTIONs, which need sections of atomic execution, may use:

    multi.lock()
    ... CRITICAL CODE SECTION...
    multi.unlock()

Of course, improper use of `multi.lock()' could trigger bad deadlocks.
To get `multi' defined within the scope of the called function requires
a bit of care.  For example, `multi' could be made global when created,
of passed as an extra argument to functions from the `multi.do' calls.

Finally, `multi.activity()' returns a number representing the current
activity of the current `Multi' instance: it is the number of agents, either
working or waiting, added to the number of requests waiting in the queue.
"""

import Queue, threading

class Multi:

    def __init__(self, agents, length):
        self.agents = 0
        # All purpose, single lock, for user convenience.
        self.user_lock = threading.Lock()
        # To wait until some agent processor terminates.
        self.killer = threading.Semaphore(0)
        self.queue = Queue.Queue(length)
        self.set_agents(agents)

    def lock(self):
        self.user_lock.acquire()

    def unlock(self):
        self.user_lock.release()

    def activity(self):
        return self.queue.qsize() + self.agents

    def do(self, function, *arguments):
        if self.agents == 0:
            reply = apply(function, arguments)
            if reply is not None:
                function, arguments = reply
                apply(function, arguments)
        else:
            self.queue.put((function, arguments))

    def wrapup(self):
        self.set_agents(0)

    def set_agents(self, agents):
        while self.agents < agents:
            Agent(self.killer, self.queue)
            self.agents = self.agents + 1
        while self.agents > agents:
            self.queue.put(None)
            self.killer.acquire()
            self.agents = self.agents - 1

class Agent(threading.Thread):

    def __init__(self, killer, queue):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.killer = killer
        self.queue = queue
        self.start()

    def run(self):
        while 1:
            request = self.queue.get()
            if request is None:
                self.killer.release()
                return
            function, arguments = request
            apply(function, arguments)

def test():

    def write(counter, multi):
        import sys
        multi.lock()
        sys.stdout.write('%.4d\n' % counter)
        multi.unlock()

    multi = Multi(50, 200)
    for counter in range(2000):
        multi.do(write, counter, multi)
    multi.wrapup()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()
-------------- next part --------------

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Aug 24 11:04:15 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:04:15 -0400
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
In-Reply-To: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>; from mmhamze@pleiades.net on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:31:44AM -0500
References: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010824110415.A1526@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:31:44AM -0500, Maan M. Hamze wrote:
> Is it possible to link Dictionary values of each key into a text file?  So
> the value of a key is a text file somewhere on the PC.  And if so, how do I
> instruct Python to open the text file and print into screen when the key of
> the text file is used?
> Also, is it possible to link a value of a Dictionary key into a Python
> function/procedure?  So, if the key is encountered, a way for the
> functionprocedure to be run.
> Maan

Well, the dictionary value can be anything, like Fileobject or Function,
ie.
    file = open('...')
    dict[1] = file
and
    def func():
	...
    dict[2] = func

If there are too many files open, which is determined at compile time,
you will get into trouble.  I suggest just storing file name; you can
open/close the file only when you need the content.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPU cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From jknapka at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 17 14:33:46 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:33:46 GMT
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
Message-ID: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> I've found little value in writing unittests for GUI apps

This is a subject that's been on my mind lately, and since the
subject has come up here, maybe some one can give me some pointers
on this matter:

How exactly would one go about automating unit tests of GUI code?
Specifically, I'm working on some UI stuff in Tkinter.
At first I thought, "well, I can just write tests that call
my Tk callback methods directly with appropriate values", but
then I realized that that can't work because my code
depends on the widget state (eg might call event.widget.get()
for a key-release event, or something like that).

So that means I'd need to write code that actually drives
the Tk widgets "from outside", as it were, either by synthesizing
events somehow at the OS/window-system level, or by knowing
enough about the Tk internals to convince the widgets that they're
being clicked on, typed at, etc. And at that point it looks like
a lot more effort than it's worth.

Can anyone suggest a workable approach to this problem?
Do wxPython or PyQt make this kind of thing any easier?
(I've looked at them both briefly, but am so used to
Tk that I would prefer not to switch with out a
compelling reason.)

Thanks,

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# 2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt A
-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# 2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt A


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Sat Aug  4 06:01:24 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 03:01:24 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108021700.70b4ce67@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108031527.77c4af8@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108032114.c03a0a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108040201.73d542f0@posting.google.com>

grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) wrote in message news:<dc6f5c99.0108032114.c03a0a4 at posting.google.com>...
> tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd) wrote in message news:<f67cb2b7.0108031527.77c4af8 at posting.google.com>...
> > The docs are rather incomplete at the moment.  I'm about to upload the
> > latest version from the CVS, which is much more complete.  The
> > Velocity project (essentially Cheetah for Java) has some good
> > documentation at http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/index.html
> 
> Had started looking at Velocity and if Cheetah is a similar thing for
> Python, then it is perhaps closer to what I am after. Not being able
> to find iteration etc in Cheetah documentation threw me and I hadn't
> had a chance to sift through the code as yet.

For what it is worth, Velocity looks pretty well what I am after. A
Python clone of it would be quite nice, although tweaks to make better
use of some stuff in Python would make it better. I guess I will have
to wait for updated documentation for Cheetah to get an understanding
of it. I trolled a bit through the CVS version of the documentation but
still can spot a least one thing which Velocity has which I see as useful.
Ie., an equivalent of #stop. Is there such a thing in Cheetah? It should
be simple to do as all it needs to potentially do is throw an exception
which is caught at the top.

Overall, the approach take by Velocity and Cheetah is what I am looking
for. In terms of functionality and interface, the balance is falling
towards Velocity. In the architecture I am dealing with, the service agent
framework provides an easy way of accessing objects outside of the scope
of the web page. In this sense, the aspect of Cheetah whereby one can
override the Python base class for the Python object generating the page
isn't strictly necessary. Will have to play and see.

At this point I guess the next question in regard to working out the best
approach to all this, is whether one goes the direction of interpreting
the page at the time of the request as I think Velocity might do, or to
pregenerate Python classes to handle the request. As with Cheetah, the
latter is also done in JWAA which someone else pointed out to me. My only
concern with precompiled code is that you either have to restart your
application when changes are made, or build in the smarts to rebuild classes
on the fly when the template file changes.

Can you tell me what happens in the Cheetah/Webware case. If template files
are changed, is the Python class automatically regenerated and reimported
into the program? Or am I totally misunderstanding how it works in this
respect? Is this dependent on whether you use the inheritance or containment
approaches? Perhaps the updated documentation will also answer this question.

Anyway, getting closer to where I want to be. :-)


From china at foo.com  Fri Aug  3 02:10:29 2001
From: china at foo.com (Albert Chin-A-Young)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:10:29 -0000
Subject: SSL_connect error in Python 2.1.1 on IRIX 6.5
References: <3ff735af.0108021033.3d7612eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tmkg2lrpa1ff88@corp.supernews.com>

Francis Tilney <ftilney at commercetone.com> wrote:
> I built Python 2.1.1 on an SGI machine with SSL enabled.
> However when I tried to connect to an https connection I got an error.
> (Another similar test suggested that the ssl error was error 1
> (SSL_ERROR_SSL)).
> Traceback is below.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

SSL support is not going to work without /dev/random which is not
available on IRIX. So, you need to run PRNGD
(http://www.aet.tu-cottbus.de/personen/jaenicke/postfix_tls/prngd.html)
as a replacement for /dev/random and configure Modules/socketmodule.c
to call RAND_egd to set things up (you set the environment variable
RANDFILE before a urlopen). The patches we use against Python 2.1.1
that enables SSL support with RAND_egd is at:
  ftp://ftp.thewrittenword.com/packages/free/source/python-2.1.1

-- 
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Aug 20 21:33:17 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 04:33:17 +0300
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org> <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

| The C library function clock(3) and the system call gettimeofday(2) measure
| two quite different things.  From "man clock" on my Mandrake system:

|     The clock() function returns an approximation of processor
|     time used by the program.

yes, but since gettimeofday() has about 10000 times more resolution
and the user time measurement on most platforms that i know of is so
unreliable/imprecise, and that you probably need to be on a quiescent
machine anyway to do profiling, this does not look like a very good
solution.

if a cycle counter - a device that measures real time - is deemed a
good thing to use on windows, it probably isn't a very important
requirement to only measure cpu time.

  -- erno


From bevans at wested.org  Wed Aug  1 19:15:07 2001
From: bevans at wested.org (Bela Evans)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 16:15:07 -0700
Subject: How to use python to automate installation of non-python programs?
Message-ID: <6b954971.0108011515.355c33a2@posting.google.com>

Let's say you have to install some program on a number of machines
(pcs and macs) - msoffice, adobe acrobat reader, norton antivirus,
etc.  It's easy enough to have a python script start an install
program, but does python have any interface to allow you to
automatically run through an install program?

What I'm thinking would be needed is a kind of keyboard and mouse
entry macro recorder.  For example, on 1st screen of install program,
press enter, 2nd screen, click on customize button, etc.  The python
script would need to focus attention on the install program window and
send keystrokes and mouse clicks to it.  Anyone have experience with
this?  Any pointers to which modules I should look at?  Or is there a
better way to run through install programs?

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas on what I should be looking at...


From cgp at nospam.le.ac.uk  Wed Aug 15 05:32:43 2001
From: cgp at nospam.le.ac.uk (Clive Page)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:32:43 +0100
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <m4ielqeqlne.fsf@macquarie.com.au>
Message-ID: <9ldfjr$6m852@owl.le.ac.uk>

In article <m4ielqeqlne.fsf at macquarie.com.au>,
Timothy Docker  <timd at macquarie.com.au> wrote:
>It works fine on Solaris, with bit of autoconf/makefile tweaking (I
>didn't have to change a single line of code though).

I gave up after a couple of days of tweaking. I've since found out (I
think) that I need to make sure that the wxGTK and wxPython versions are
identical, and use gmake everwhere where it tells you to use make.   But I
found it hard to work out which compiler to use, i.e. C or C++, and gnu or
Sun's own.   I guess I still haven't exhausted all the possibilities, I
just exhausted my own patience.

Even Python itself doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris using gcc,
only using Sun's cc, which is rather a pity.



-- 
Clive Page   cgp at le.ac.uk


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 09:10:26 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:10:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
In-Reply-To: <7x8zg58zn9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270851240.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 27 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:

> OK, sure, I'd like to hear more about PyGTK too.

PyGTK's homepage is http://www.daa.com.au/~james/pygtk/. Just to warn you,
there is a dearth of documentation about PyGTK. But that's okay, because PyGTK
is built on GTK+ (http://www.gtk.org/), and there is plenty of documentation
for GTK+ :)

One thing I would suggest is to take a look at the testgtk programs under GTK+
and PyGTK and see where they differ. That'll tell you what you need to
interpret differently when reading the GTK+ docs.

Another nice thing is that both GTK+ and PyGTK have been ported from Linux to
Windows, so you don't sacrifice portablility versus Tk, Qt, or wx. Plus, GTK+
doesn't have all those licensing issues that Qt does.

>
>  [snip]
>
> My calculator is at
>
>   http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/calc.py
>
> if anyone wants to look at it.  Comments are welcome but don't expect
> much--I just threw it together to try out the toolkit, not to make
> something slick or useful.  I might try to fix it up further sometime
> though (and there's a function or two that I didn't get around to
> implementing).

Heh.

I definitely think it would look sharper using PyGTK. Give it a go.

> I'm impressed though that with Tkinter I was able to implement a
> more-or-less working calculator with just 3k of code.  I'm sure
> the Micrsoft Windows calculator is at least 100x that size <g>.

It'll probably be about 5k with PyGTK I suppose, but it'll look sharper and
have more features ;) In fact, the C version of the calculator written using
GTK+ (gcalc, found in the gnome-utils package, for anyone who cares) is only
about 7.5k in size.

> I'm still very interested in hearing comparisons between Tkinter
> and other Python toolkits.

Oh, and if everything else written above isn't enough, GTK+ is _themeable_.
If you want, you can specify a theme to use with your application. Or you can
let the user choose a global theme for all GTK+ applications and roll with
that. Either! Both! Whatever! As long as you can get a grip on the themeing
engine, you can do anything you like.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 13 23:54:48 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:54:48 -0400
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu> <3B75B009.1A42DA3E@ndh.net> <mailman.997745185.31532.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B78A108.42EE60E2@engcorp.com>

Ken Seehof wrote:
> 
> From: "Stefan Schwarzer" <s.schwarzer at ndh.net>
> >
> > Lloyd Goldwasser schrieb:
> > > As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
> > > others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation. 
> >
> > There was a nice posting/thread on this some time ago:
> >
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ken+seehof+encapsulation&hl=en&group=comp.
> lang.python.*&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=39491494.671DC3D9%40sightreader.com
> >
> Actually it is only a technicality that python lacks encapsulation anyway.

It may be merely a matter of terminology, not even a technicality.
To me (and http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=encapsulation )
encapsulation in object-oriented programming is merely about packaging 
stuff together, not hiding it.  By that definition, Python obviously *has* 
encapsulation.

> The "__" syntax allows you to hide members.  But since you can get around
> it, people say python doesn't have encapsulation.  

And those people are wrong, of course.  Irrelevant, but wrong.  ;-)

-data-hiding-is-another-story-ly yr's
-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 15 06:54:32 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:54:32 GMT
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9l4b510251b@enews4.newsguy.com> <9l4ge0$m0q$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9l5jsd0llq@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b7a5498.156970311@news.laplaza.org>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:53:32 +0200, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

:"jsnyder" <trelis at mindspring.com> wrote in message
:news:9l4ge0$m0q$1 at slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
:> > But there's more!  If when you click this toolbar-button the current
:> > MDI child-window in Pythonwin is one with a module being edited,
:> > you don't even have the bother of the file-selection box -- it knows
:> > the module you want to import or reload is specifically the one
:> > in the current MDI child-window.  Nice, isn't it?-)
:    ...
:> I'm using IDLE v0.8 and there are no icons.  Are we referring to the same
:> thing?
:
:Of course not!  You originally said:
:
:>>> Running from Pythonwin, I am importing a module and then calling its
:method.
:
:If you're using IDLE, you're not "running from Pythonwin"... Pythonwin
:is a different IDE from IDLE!
:
:In IDLE, like in the text-mode Python interpreter, you have to use
:the built-in function "reload(mymodule)" at the prompt.  Pythonwin
:is niftier in this respect (I don't know if idle-fork has enhanced
:this little but important detail).

Press F5 with the editor window selected.  Imports the module
currently being edited; reloads it if it's already been imported.

(Not an idle-fork enhancement, it's been there as long as I remember,
which isn't that far back...)


From paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca  Mon Aug 27 22:30:47 2001
From: paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca (Paul Johnston)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:30:47 -0400
Subject: Python 2.2a2 on Mandrake
Message-ID: <VjDi7.24159$Hr2.1424682@news20.bellglobal.com>

I can never get configure to  pass the "readline"-check. The configure 
log points to termcap.

configure:6918: checking for rl_completion_matches in -lreadline
configure:6937: gcc -o conftest -g -O2   conftest.c -lreadline -ltermcap 
-lpthread -ldl  -lutil 1>&5
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltermcap
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

I've installed the latest termcap.rpm for Mandrake but no joy.  There is no 
termcap library I can find.  

What is the secret?


From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 24 15:41:57 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:41:57 GMT
Subject: simple ping program
References: <mailman.998553514.21024.python-list@python.org> <9m32mk0284o@enews4.newsguy.com> <h8h5m9.hca.ln@Laplace.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3b86ad05.357255756@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:28:01 +0200, Joerg Woelke <lumbricus at gmx.net> wrote:
>$ wget http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz
>--14:26:55--  http://www.python.org:80/%7Ejeremy/ping.tar.gz
>           => `ping.tar.gz'
>Verbindungsaufbau zu www.python.org:80... verbunden!
>HTTP Anforderung gesendet, warte auf Antwort... 404 Not Found
>14:26:56 FEHLER 404: Not Found.
>
>:-(
>
Oops, that previous url was perl.
Try http://the-tech.mit.edu/~jeremy/python/ping.tar.gz

Hm ... I wonder why am I googling for people who probably can do it for themselves??



From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug  6 15:16:06 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 14:16:06 -0500
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug  6)
Message-ID: <2FB2309944803C9D.39C6D060A9441B8A.BC448919F73E033D@lp.airnews.net>

    News:
    Pythonia loses a great man, Frank Willison:
	http://www.oreilly.com/news/frank_0701.html

    Laura Lewin reports on OSCON 2001:
	http://python.oreilly.com/news/pythondispatch_0701.html

    python-dev thrashes out such adult subjects as XML-RPC, SOAP,
    WebDAV, Unicode, ...
	http://www.kuchling.com/python/dev/2001-07-2.html

    A Blast from the past: The SpecTcl GUI builder receives bug
    fixes after a three year hiatus. The amazing thing about
    SpecTcl is that it supports the generation of not only Tcl/Tk
    code but also Python, Perl and Ruby. See the announcement in
    comp.lang.tcl.announce, and the SpecTcl web page:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=a5a3af4ee11811c5,1
        http://spectcl.sourceforge.net


    Language use:
    Sheila King wants to know how to create her own exceptions and how
    the standard exceptions module works.  Guido agrees that the process
    is underdocumented:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f7eb260855462b01

    Tim Peters describes a declarative approach to highly stateful
    interactions:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=5d48c07e920090cb,10&start=8

    Steve Holden posts code to query databases and cache the results:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b17d869a6fb8078c

    Steve Majewski observes that "nested generators [are] the python
    equivalent of unix pipe cmds" (as the Haskell people are fond of
    observing about their lazy lists) and posts useful higher-order
    generator functions:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=83ff3eda8092576b


    Random philosophy:
    Tim Daneliuk posts an essay on where python fits in the language
    world (and how World Domination is imminent):
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=78329468eb992b31,9


    Language evolution:
    Guido solicits feedback on the new type/class unification features:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=a8dc15aab8832a6b,68&start=0
    Later in the thread, the topic of how to spell the first argument
    of a class method (which will be a class, not an instance of a
    class) arises:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=a8dc15aab8832a6b,68&start=15
    ... and of course everyone has their own ideas:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=a8dc15aab8832a6b,68&start=53

    `x in type' is suggested as a way to write `isinstance(x, type)'.
    Guido is initially favorable but after a few more posts it doesn't
    seem like such a great idea after all:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=c6b6e3a1d89f66fe,84&start=20

    Along the way, Tim demonstrates a pretty twisted way to search
    nested tuples:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=c6b6e3a1d89f66fe,84&start=78

    A discussion of generators and infinite sequences provokes ideas
    for various extensions to the list comprehension:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=416451df1c2964fd,15&start=0
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f4b144c05c1c12c2,26&start=0

    The integer division flamewar seems to have settled down for the
    moment.  It seems likely that the new behaviour (int / int -> float)
    will be in the __future__ of 2.2 and become the default in a few
    years at version 3.


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continues Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
        http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

    Python Journal is at work on its second issue
        http://www.pythonjournal.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From piercew at hushmail.com  Fri Aug 10 07:58:38 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 04:58:38 -0700
Subject: calldll question
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108100358.6f2f3ca2@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to get a python script to load packet.dll using the calldll
and windll packages.  I've been using a combination of the O'Reilly
Python Programming on Win32 and stuff scattered on the Internet to try
and figure this out.

When I only load windll using:

    from windll import *
    mod1 = module("c:\\windows\\system32\\packet.dll")

I receive the following error message:

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: 'calldll' module has no attribute 'load_library'

When I load both calldll and windll my console gets flooded with:

    Exception exceptions.RuntimeError: 'maximum recursion depth
exceeded' in
    <method module.__del__ of module instance at 007EC5D4> ignored

The message above continues until I ^C.

I'm sure this is an IO (Idiot Operator) error, but does anyone have a
pointer on how I should be doing this?  I'm not trying to do anything
super fancy, at least I don't think I am.

I'm on a Win2K box laptop with Python v2.1.1 and the latest DynWin and
calldll available.
Thank you for any help,

Wayne


From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  2 09:03:51 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 09:03:51 -0400
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org> <20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Actually, are the mailing lists mirrored anywhere?  I've gotten stuck a
couple of times for the want of them.

Alex.


From kalle at gnupung.net  Sun Aug  5 20:01:42 2001
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 02:01:42 +0200
Subject: getting environment variable values in 1.5.2
In-Reply-To: <9kkknd$53js7$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>; from rajarshi@seed.chem.psu.edu on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 07:29:22PM -0400
References: <9kkknd$53js7$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20010806020142.A29847@gandalf>

Sez Rajarshi Guha:
> Hi,
>   is'nt there any function in 1.5.2 (like os.getenv in 2.1) that can
> retreive the values of specified environment variables?

Use the os.environ dictionary.  Read more on
http://www.python.org/doc/1.5.2/lib/os-procinfo.html

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
Free Dmitry Sklyarov! - http://www.freesklyarov.org/



From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 04:28:37 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:28:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Query about Types SIG status
Message-ID: <Xns90F060A40CC85michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

(Copy of mail sent to types-sig at python.org)

I'd be very grateful if someone could post a summary of the current status 
of the Python Types SIG.  

I'm a little concerned:

1.	The only mail I've seen since joining this list has been SPAM!
2.	Some of the links on the SIG home page seem to be broken (of course 
the recent outage of python.org doesn't help, but that's not what I'm 
referring to).
3.	There doesn't seem to be much in the way of recent and current 
proposals, as far as I can see.

There seem to be a variety of documents in varying stages of maturity, but 
it's difficult to see what the current state of thinking is.  There's a 
document from Guido van Rossum with some early ideas, an unnumbered PEP 
from Paul Prescod on an interface declaration language, and PEP-0245 by 
Michel Pelletier, plus a number of other papers.  However (it's difficult 
to tell), most of these seem to be quite elderly!

Clearly the ideas of interfaces and of static types are distinct but 
closely related developments.  Is this an area of active development, or is 
the current consensus that it's not worth the effort?


From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 10 12:46:15 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:46:15 GMT
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de> <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n842d.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <9l07a201rdj at enews4.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Benjamin Wu" <chase at gnuchina.org> wrote in message
>> When I use Tkinter, I met a question as following:
>> I create three buttons and thire callback function
>> is the same, how to know which button active callback
>> function when one of they pressed?
>>
>> Anyone can help me?
> 
> Use different callables for the callbacks -- if it must be
> the same function, curry the function with different
> preset arguments -- see for example
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52549
> about how to do currying in Python.

A slightly different way is to use lamgda.  It's best for
simple cases where you just want to pass a few arguments that
are calcualted at run-time. Here's an excerpt from an 8-queens
demo program that binds a callback to each button (space on a
chessboard):

     1	        for y in range(size):
     2	            f  = Frame(self.__frame)
     3	            for x in range(size):
     4	                if (x+y) % 2:
     5	                    bg = "#bbb"
     6	                else:
     7	                    bg = "#eee"
     8	                b = Button(f, 
     9	                     bitmap='@%s' % bitmapfile,
    10	                     highlightthickness=0, 
    11	                     relief=FLAT, 
    12	                     background=bg, 
    13	                     activebackground="#fff",
    14	                     foreground=bg)
    15	                b.bind("<Button-1>",lambda event,xx=x,yy=y: board.toggleSpace(xx,yy))
    16	                b.bind("<Any-Enter>", self.__noop)
    17	                b.bind("<Any-Leave>", self.__noop)
    18	                b.bind("ButtonRelease-1>", self.__noop)
    19	                b.pack(side=LEFT)
    20	                self.__button[y][x] = b
    21	            f.pack(side=BOTTOM)


Line 15 is where the interesting bit happens.  

When a <Button-1> is pressed over any of the 64 spaces on the
chessboard, the anonymous function defined by the lamba is
called.  That function receives one parameter called "event"
from Tk, and has two default parameters "xx" and "yy" whose
default values are set when the binding is done.  Since Tk only
passes the single "event" parameter, "xx" and "yy" will have
the values specified by "x" and "y" when the lambda operation
took place.

The anonymous callback function will then call
board.toggleSpace() passing it the index values. The "event"
parameter that is passed to the anonymous callback function is
ignored.

Curry is probably a more readable solution to a non-Schemer.  ;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hey!! Let's watch
                                  at               the' ELEVATOR go UP and
                               visi.com            DOWN at th' HILTON HOTEL!!


From kalath at lycos.com  Wed Aug  1 06:51:47 2001
From: kalath at lycos.com (Mark Brady)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 03:51:47 -0700
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <e840346c.0108010251.1eea5ea0@posting.google.com>

I noticed in your article you want to use a standalone version of
ZODB, see here http://www.amk.ca/zodb/ for all you need (This is the
first result returned by google on zodb so maybe google would be a
good place for you to look for the other parts of ZOPE you need). Read
the ZODB docs on the link I posted for a great intro to ZODB and the
download section contains the standalone version of ZODB. Hope this
helps.

Regards,
Mark Brady.


From just at letterror.com  Wed Aug  8 13:05:59 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:05:59 +0200
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B717178.415A995D@letterror.com>

gyromagnetic at excite.com wrote:

> I am a relative newbie to Python, so this question may be quite naive.
> Is there a way to 'map' methods to a list of items?
> 
> For a simple example, suppose that I want to convert the items in a
> list to uppercase. Currently, I might do something like
> >>> import string
> >>> val=['abc', 'def', 'ghi']
> >>> map(string.upper, val)
> ['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']
> 
> Is there a way to map the .upper method to these items? Something
> like, for example,
> >>>>map(?.upper, val).
> 
> I think that map currently works by applying a function to each of the
> items in the list, but would it be useful for 'map' to be able to take
> a method instead of a function?

I think this is a great example of what list comprehensions were
designed for:

>>> val=['abc', 'def', 'ghi']
>>> [x.upper() for x in val]
['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']
>>> 

The non-list-comprehension version is indeed awkward:

>>> map(lambda x: x.upper(), val)
['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']
>>> 

Just


From pkoren at hex.net  Sat Aug 11 12:27:06 2001
From: pkoren at hex.net (Peter A. Koren)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:27:06 -0500
Subject: running a stand-alone executable from within a python program
References: <c88b4aad.0108101211.383c97d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B755CDA.E4460750@hex.net>

Aimee Taylor wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to run stand-alone executables from python?  It would
> be great if there was a way to do this independent of platform, but if
> not, these are my needs:
> 
> Right now I have a stand-alone fortran 77 program that I want to run
> from a python program on a PC.  I will also be putting all of this on
> a mac someday soon (of course I will also be changing the fortran
> program some and compiling it on the mac).
> 
> Future plans:  I'm not up to threading yet, but someday it would be
> nice to execute the fortran program on a separate UNIX box(es,
> parallel processing far in the future??) and pipe back the resulting
> text file to the PC or MAC client.
> 
> Thank you for any ideas/suggestions in advance!
> --Aimee

See Mark Lutz's 2nd edition "Programming Python." He covers this very
well.

--Pete


From paul at boddie.net  Wed Aug  8 09:54:04 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 06:54:04 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997188982.18690.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108080554.1cd85abe@posting.google.com>

"Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997188982.18690.python-list at python.org>...

[Evidence to support PEP 238]

> Rather than going back to the drawing board and questioning 
> himself about where he is looking for evidence, and how 
> he is evaluating it - Guido now takes VPython's findings 
> about the "/" operator (and its "confirmation" of Alice's 
> "findings") as the new testament. 

Although I suspect that hardly anyone is really going to read (or be
interested in reading) anything on this subject any more, it should be
noted that you raise a valid point about the ways decisions are made
and justified with respect to the development of the Python language;
such observations stand out from many of the other messages focusing
on Python's leadership.

It appears that you're suggesting that a highly-specialised interest
group are the inspiration for the recently proposed changes to case
sensitivity and division. I suppose we ought to be grateful that such
inspiration didn't come from a paper describing feedback from a
"Python for Perl Programmers" course. ;-)

Paul


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 25 04:44:16 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 01:44:16 -0700
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
Message-ID: <7xitfcil5r.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Any thoughts on how these compare?  Which would you use to write
a simple gui application?  How about a fancy application?

I've been playing with Tkinter for a few hours and have some sense
of its capabilities.  I've never programmed Qt or PyQt at all and
have no idea what they're like from a programming perspective, but
am pretty impressed with KDE applications I've used.

Thanks for any opinions/comparisons.


From sufrin at comlab.ox.ac.uk  Thu Aug 16 06:15:42 2001
From: sufrin at comlab.ox.ac.uk (Bernard Sufrin)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:15:42 +0100
Subject: Tkinter -- interpreter crashes in tcl in presence of threads?
References: <3B77E458.72E4206A@comlab.ox.ac.uk> <3b7a20af.1291351@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B9D4E.47BDA9CD@comlab.ox.ac.uk>

Thanks for your contribution. I agree that it's not a python coding
problem. 

Sadly, the newest stable Tk installations warn about unreliability of Tk
in a multithreaded environment (particularly when linked with glibc). 

My solution was, in the end, more radical: I replaced the GUI objects in
the event simulator application with proxies that communicate with an
outboard singlethreaded ``GUI server'' process via a socket (unix or
inet domain depending on operating system). This degrades
interface-to-application bandwidth somewhat, but not so much that it
matters.

The positive thing about the exercise (it lasted half a day) was  that
it forced me to make explicit the spec of the interface between
application and GUI. A consequential bonus was that it was then easy to
develop a multi-user, multi-machine GUI for the application....

As for the proof assistant interface, it was relatively easy (2 hours)
to convert it to a form where it's driven by events (including requests
for input) sent from the proof engine.

Bernard Sufrin.


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Fri Aug 10 21:25:22 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:25:22 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost>
Message-ID: <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko>

From: xauau <xauau at yahoo.com.au>
> 
> If I understand you correctly, a 'tree' is not only a good way of
> presenting this info to the user, it's also a straightforward way of
> representing it internally.
> 
Why
> You could build a fairly data structure called Tree which stores
> nodes. Each node could consist of a piece of data, a reference to its
> parent node, and a reference to a list of child nodes. (Like a doubly
> linked list, except that you'd have a list of children instead of a
> single 'next' pointer).
> 

Good comparison, but very often 'single linked list' here is
adequate as backup structure for visual-tree-control.
It can be simple stored:
in one rdbms (indexed) table { parent, child, child_atributes }
or Python (or bsddb) dictionary { parent: [child1, chid2 ..]}.

gzeljko







From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 05:24:55 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:24:55 +0200
Subject: Checking for attribute in the current module with getattr( )
References: <k0nvgjzhetl.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no> <tn0fiagmf2tqe3@corp.supernews.com> <3B70451D.7AC520DF@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <9kr0h601vj5@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Just van Rossum" <just at letterror.com> wrote in message
news:3B70451D.7AC520DF at letterror.com...
> Lyle Johnson wrote:
>
> > > Now, as indicated I don't really know what object to send in to the
> > > hasattr function, indicated with "???" - is what I'm trying to do
> > > possible, and how should I in case do it?
> >
> > How about:
> >
> >     if globals().has_key("func1"):
> >         print "This module defines func1"
> >     else:
> >         print "This one doesn't"
>
> Or
>
>     try:
>         func1
>     except NameError:
>         print "This one doesn't define func1"
>     else:
>         print "This module defines func1"

That's slightly wider than the original poster had asked for
(and Lyle provided), although it may of course be what the
original poster *wanted* (i.e., it's possible that the o.p.
didn't express himself entirely clearly).  Just's version
says "this module defines func1" even if func1 was really
installed into __builtins__ by some OTHER module, for ex...


Alex





From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Aug  9 12:13:54 2001
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:13:54 -0600
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
Message-ID: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F27D5AE@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Mark Robinson [mailto:m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk]
> 
> Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list 
> and deleting 
> elements that don't meet a certain criteria.

You can use either filter or list comprehensions:

>>> x = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>>> print filter.__doc__
filter(function, sequence) -> list

Return a list containing those items of sequence for which
function(item)
is true.  If function is None, return a list of items that are true.
>>> filter(lambda x: x > 5, x)
[6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> [ item for item in x if item > 5 ]
[6, 7, 8, 9]
>>>

hth,
-- bjorn



From OlafMeding at noSpam.CompuServe.com  Wed Aug  1 19:05:53 2001
From: OlafMeding at noSpam.CompuServe.com (Olaf Meding)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:05:53 -0500
Subject: This should have worked
Message-ID: <9ka20o$sht$1@news.chorus.net>

Why would this call fail:
  vc6.Documents.CloseAll()

This call works:
  vc6.Documents.Open( "D:/CVS/machine/tools/test_couch/test_couch.dsw" )

The MSDN doc says that this should work, but I get this python error:
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  TypeError: object of type 'int' is not callable

I am starting to learn python and how to use it to automate VC6.  I have no
clue where to get help for this.


Olaf
TomoTherapy

Please remove "noSpam" to get my email address




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug  5 14:46:13 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:46:13 GMT
Subject: Installing module: import error "No module named 'new'"
Message-ID: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com>

I'm trying to install this Cog module:
http://www.randomly.org/projects/cog/

I'm running Python 2.0 on both my home Window machine and on my Linux
web host's server.

Following the readme instructions
http://www.randomly.org/projects/cog/cog-0.2.README

I decided to run the test.py before installing and got this error
message:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "test.py", line 32, in ?
    import base, db, io, meta, registry
  File "db.py", line 96, in ?
    import base, io
  File "io.py", line 32, in ?
    import cPickle, os, types, new, sys, fcntl
ImportError: No module named new

This has me really puzzled, as the docs for Python 2.0 list the new
module in the Global Module Index, but when I look for that file in both
my Windows machine and on my Linux web host, I do not fine it.

How should I proceed at this point? Why isn't the "new" module available
to me???

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 12:14:53 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:14:53 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: dynamic-on-demand classes Re: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <v4sfnt8vcdbor8dtar6r44k8n4u7d1r1if@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108132013100.780-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Kirby Urner wrote:

> When you want a dynamic class, you would subclass DynaObject or 
> something like that, plus have other parents if you needed them.

I thought of this too (even started to write email (have I posted it
too?)), but then I thought that it is overkill. GvR is right about having
it in __dynamic__ form...  It's property.



Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From brueckd at tbye.com  Tue Aug  7 21:09:24 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: encapsulation?
In-Reply-To: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108071756450.28191-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Lloyd Goldwasser wrote:

> liability.  It would seem to make Python ineligible for use in projects
> that need a more reliable separation between objects and outside
> access.  How hard (or desirable) would it be to provide a stronger kind
> of encapsulation in Python?

You can control access any way you want. Implement your own __getattr__
and __setattr__ functions kind of like the Bastion module does (read
through the source code as it has some good comments on doing what you
want).

You might even be able to implement it as a mixin class so that you
could add encapsulation to pre-existing classes.

-Dave




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 17 22:04:25 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:04:25 -0500
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <Cqif7.37040$281.6134627@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
References: <3b7d5148_1@Usenet.com>
        <mailman.998090012.19681.python-list@python.org>
        <Cqif7.37040$281.6134627@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <15229.52521.310162.647905@beluga.mojam.com>

    Tom> - For timing, the clock() call in the windows CRT yields rather
    Tom>   innacurate data, so I had to use a Win32 call.

I believe time.clock already does this.  Perhaps although the interface
would be a bit clumsy from C it would be worth importing the time module and
calling its clock() function.

Skip



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Aug 21 06:53:58 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 13:53:58 +0300
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org> <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org> <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list@python.org> <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <ku1ym5bs55.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <ku66bhbwmq.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

| okay, not strictly wall clock time but cpu clock cycles.  but
| still something that doesn't stop running when you block or something
| else runs.

oops, this is wrong, seems time.clock() does measure seconds after all
on win32.

  -- erno


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 03:38:11 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:38:11 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008EABFF.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47khntktd9cjng7sphu3ictjfglkh97ue6@4ax.com>

>> And yes I quite resent  the... access given to Carnegie Mellon.

After considering the issue of "who owns Python" for a year or so,
I've come to the conclusion that the people writing the Python
interpreter do. This is an open source effort, with many of the
programmers who are working on it donating their time for free.
If this group of programmers wants to add to or strip from Python
a whirly-gig, then so be it. It's THEIR language. THEIR scarce
and valuable free time. THEIR blood sweat and tears, THEIR
intellectual capital.

Surely, we can influence Python. We can politely be critical of 
new feature, prognosticate on the probable success or failure of
this feature, point out its flaws and benefits. We can raise the subject
of our own desired features, and even be assured that folks are
listening,

But never delude yourself. This language isn't YOURS. It's
THEIRS.

And rightfully so, IMO.


C//



From gmcm at hypernet.com  Thu Aug 30 18:27:46 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 22:27:46 GMT
Subject: ANN: MkSQL release 0a0
References: <mailman.999021790.31375.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns910DBBE30F6D2gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194>

The setup script has been fixed so that the test
and docs directories are properly installed.

I wrote:

> The first alpha release of MkSQL is here:
> 
>   http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/mksqlintro.html


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 30 13:37:56 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:37:56 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.999190126.19129.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mltb0$2me8$1@norfair.nerim.net>

>
> You say it uses a "heavy" dedicated client. What do you mean by that?

A serie of back-office tools (sync with production traditional system) that
don't execute through a browser (console or traditional GUI or croned blind
apps)

>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>
>




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 21:34:52 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:34:52 +1000
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022123310.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022123310.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <01080311345208.14602@ike>

On Friday 03 August 2001 11:29, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> If the names are not going into sys.modules, then I must assume
> that they are only going to be imported once. (True?)

I currently can't think of a situation where the instance would be imported 
more than once.

I just tested multiple imports anyway, and it seemed to work ok...


    Richard



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 00:55:51 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:55:51 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933587.4901.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7B5257.18E5591A@engcorp.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> If we were afraid of operations someone might think work in a way other than
> they actually do, we'd have to drop, oh, subscripting, addition and input
> from Python too <wink>.  

But it's a good thing *division* doesn't suffer from this problem! :-)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Aug 12 07:02:53 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 13:02:53 +0200
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org> <cpu1ze9hhy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <j4y9opk0bm.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

> Use of 'yield' as an identifier is not a silent breakage -- there has
> to be at least one defining occurrence of yield when used as a
> variable, function, module or class name, and that will always be a
> syntax error.

Of course, in Python, there doesn't have to be a defining occurrence
of every identifier used:

def foo(a):
    print a

globals()['yield'] = foo

def bar():
    yield (1)

bar()

would break silently if yield became a keyword without a future import.

Regards,
Martin



From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 31 14:35:29 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:35:29 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com> <cp3d6ap71x.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <8a12e538.0108301457.706645ef@posting.google.com> <9mntls02l31@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108311035.70c504c2@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<9mntls02l31 at enews2.newsguy.com>...
> Like those of many other built-in objects, instances of
> object have no __dict__ to store arbitrary attributes in:
> so, you're limited to using the predefined-slots ..

OK, all that makes sense. Everything is an object.
Some built-in types, such as functions, have a __dict__
and take attributes. Other built-in types do not. All
derived types do. Have I grokked it?

Now .. what about mutability? An int is immutable. But
a type derived from int is mutable. At least in its
attributes. But its default (core? base? what is the
right term?) value is still immutable. So mutability
is really a quality of the core/base/whatever value, 
rather than of the type itself. 

I'm going to have to think on this ..

Russell


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sat Aug 25 15:03:30 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:03:30 GMT
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
References: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6ESh7.174254$g_3.29631477@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Sandy
you are dealing with sequences.  It is clear that sublst is NOT an element
of lst so it can not be in it and the result is 0.
Now, try:
>>> lst = [[1,2],2,3]
>>> sublst = [1,2]
>>> sublst in lst
1

Here sublst is an ***element*** of lst and the return is 1.  In the case you
give, sublst is not an element of the sequence lst.
To illustrate further:
>>> lst = [1,2,3]
>>> sublst = [1]
>>> sublst in lst
0
>>> sublst = 1
>>> sublst in lst
1
Maan

"Sandy Norton" <sandskyfly at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788 at posting.google.com...
> Please excuse me if this is a dumb comment that has been made before.
>
> Recently, I was rather surprised by the following behavior:
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> lst = [1,2,3]
> >>> sublst = [1,2]
> >>> sublst in lst
> 0
>
> I am sure there's a good reason why it would be considered unpythonic
> for the above to return 1... I just can't get my puny brain to figure
> it out right now.
> I guess a function such as issublist(sublst, lst) would be more
> appropriate:
>
> >>> def issublist(sublst, lst):
> for item in sublst:
> if item not in lst: return 0
> return 1
>
> >>> issublist([1,2], [1,2,3])
> 1
> >>> issublist([1,4], [1,2,3])
> 0
>
>
> regards,
>
>
> Sandy




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug  4 22:41:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:41:04 -0400
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing 
In-Reply-To: <E15T9Rz-0003ab-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEIMLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[zooko at zooko.com]
> ...
> I would really like to know if there is an efficient way to pick
> the *very next* floating point number up.

Your platform C library probably has a function with a name like nextafter()
for this; C99 requires it, but before that's universally implemented by C
vendors it's not likely to show up in Python.

Short of that, the following should work for your purposes (and all the
weasle-word disclaimers in the comments before nextafter() should hint at
why a fully correct version needs to know a lot about the platform float
representation -- that's why X3J11 insisted vendors supply this):

eps = 1.0
NBITS = 0
while (1. + eps) - 1. == eps:
    NBITS += 1
    if NBITS > 128:
        raise SystemError("machine floats are too bizarre to deal with")
    eps *= 0.5
del eps

from math import ldexp as _ldexp, frexp as _frexp

# Return closest representable float in the direction of +Inf.
# Inf or NaN arguments may return nonsense.
# 0 and denorm arguments may return nonsense.
# Normal x with 0 < x < Inf should be OK.

def nextafter(x, lastbit_wrt_half=_ldexp(1.0, -NBITS)):
    mantissa, exponent = _frexp(x)
    return _ldexp(mantissa + lastbit_wrt_half, exponent)



For example,

>>> 1.0
1.0
>>> nextafter(_)
1.0000000000000002
>>> nextafter(_)
1.0000000000000004
>>> nextafter(_)
1.0000000000000007
>>> nextafter(_)
1.0000000000000009
>>> nextafter(_)
1.0000000000000011
>>> nextafter(_)
1.0000000000000013
>>> 2. - 2.**-53
2.0
>>> 2. - 2.**-52
1.9999999999999998
>>> nextafter(_)
2.0
>>>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 08:24:55 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:24:55 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack null-terminated string
References: <mailman.996832925.27921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ke57817r1@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Xavier Defrang" <xavier at perceval.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.996832925.27921.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hello,
>
> How do I unpack a null-terminated string with the struct module?  I
> couldn't find it in the lib reference... maybe do i have to upgrade my
> glasses?

I don't think it's supported -- a C struct can't specify that one of
its fields is variable length (e.g. sentinel-terminated).  You can
find the \0 and break the string you're unpacking there, etc...


Alex





From meowbot at meowing.net  Sun Aug 12 23:47:46 2001
From: meowbot at meowing.net (Vocational Guidance Meowbot)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 23:47:46 -0400
Subject: Any 1 know how to hack in Python
References: <20010812231616.17889.00003924@ng-co1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <87u1zchb8d.fsf@pool-141-154-22-208.bos.east.verizon.net>

patio87 at aol.com (Patio87) wrote:

> If there is any 1 who knows how to hack in python please type me
> back. For every body info im not into learning to hack to hurt
> peoples computer I want to learn so I can gain an understanding and
> maybee some homade defence program against hacking Thanks

You might start at <URL:http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>
and then check the newspapers for a good deal on a Python hacking hat.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 03:57:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:57:27 +0200
Subject: Nested scopes and lexical closures
References: <mailman.998290590.13404.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lqk530i6@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998290590.13404.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> Guido continues to believe that mutable state is much better modeled by
> classes, so he's not going to change anything here without intense
pressure.

FWIW, I do agree that classes are a better tool for this.  The best use
I've found so far for nested-scopes is a better way to express currying,
and that doesn't need any rebinding ability.  My only issue with the
current rules is that they're somewhat surprising/unexpected.  Maybe
a warning about local-shadowing-outer would do as well as a total
prohibition.


> > I thought the Java rule might be better: when a variable named
> > X is bound in an enclosing block, an inner block CANNOT define
> > a variable named X -- neither bind a new one nor rebind the
    ...
> OTOH, Java allows locals to shadow class members, and that's a source of
> bugs too -- and somtimes worse, because the class members' declarations
may

Good point -- Python, of course, finesses the issue thanks to the
wonderful decision that members are explicitly accessed AS members
(self.whatever, &c).


> In Pythonland, the internal PythonLabs debate over shadowing rules
> floundered over what to do about the builtins.  In a real sense, they're
in
> an enclosing scope too, but billions (yes, I counted <wink>) of functions
do
> something like
>
>     str = first + last
>
> "list" is also routinely rebound.  So the idea hit a snag:  making an
> exception for builtins would have been at least a little ugly, but not
> excepting them would have caused howls of protest.

I agree the issue is relevant, but builtins aren't "lexically" enclosing --
they're more of a "namespace of last resort".  Breaking all code that
happens to bind a builtin name in local or module scope would have
been tantamount to adding a zillion new keywords at a stroke -- the
howls of protest would have been amply justified.  Again, maybe,
warnings (which can be turned off) could be a good compromise.


Alex





From paul at boddie.net  Fri Aug  3 05:18:04 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 02:18:04 -0700
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108030118.275ea332@posting.google.com>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.996819245.9680.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello!
> 
> More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> blanks in ( ).

[...]

> Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
> Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
> with the same ugly padding...

I first saw it employed in Java and C++ programs some time ago. I
suspect it has more to do with the usage of poor text editing software
than anything else; that is, software which isn't well-suited to
editing programs.

Paul


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug  2 23:35:05 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:35:05 -0700
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org> <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com> <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3B6A1BE9.CA181738@ActiveState.com>

Rich Holm wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> I don't want to start a flame fest, but...
> 
> Where did you hear this?  It was Borland that popularized the C++
> on Windows paradym.  Microsoft was WAS behind the curve at the time.
> The Borland class libraries were/are vastly superior to MFC.  Too
> bad they lost out in the end.

My impression was that C++ was a relatively unimportant language
(relative to C) until Microsoft adopted it. That gave it a huge boost
and essentially forced most C programmers to become C++ programmers.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug  5 20:55:28 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:55:28 +1000
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <1215273620-12188472@hypernet.com>
References: <mailman.996797285.11079.python-list@python.org> <1215273620-12188472@hypernet.com>
Message-ID: <0108061055280J.14602@ike>

On Saturday 04 August 2001 00:27, Gordon McMillan wrote:
> [snip: roundup makes use of python's import mechanisms in its instances]
>
> Which means that roundup will not work with freeze, mac's
> BuildApplication, Installer or py2exe.
>
> If these roundup extensions (is that a fair characterization?)
> were installed as subpackages of roundup, then they might be
> workable.

They're not extensions, they're working instances of roundup.

There's two separate components of a roundup installation: the software and 
one or more instances. The software is installed in site-packages, and is a 
standard python package. It contains all the core functionality, and the 
"templates" for making instances. Instances contain the actual data that is 
created when you use roundup. Further, it contains the schema for that data 
and view information. This is done using python modules that extend the basic 
software, allowing high levels of site customisation. The instances would 
never be packaged up for transport like the software would, so I don't 
believe that there's an issue with freeze etc.

The instance-as-package idea has worked well so far, with some glitches to do 
with working with python's import mechanisms. I'm not sure how we could have 
achieved the same level of flexibility using any other scheme. I'm completely 
open to suggestions though.


    Richard

ps. does the above make sense? If it does, I'll insert it, or something like 
it, into the README.



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Aug 14 13:29:31 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 17:29:31 GMT
Subject: Another two examples of using changing classes
References: <637b94bc.0108131426.48c84b3d@posting.google.com> <O_0e7.101053$EP6.25883351@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <Xns90FD5D13AF3B5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9lbn5r$vb6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk>:
...
| And for those who have read the Gang of Four book, this is the State 
| pattern which replaces the state variable and tests everywhere with a 
| helper class for each state and forwarding each method to the current 
| helper class. They also note that for languages that support it, another (I 
| can't remember if they say better) way is to change the class of the object 
| to reflect the state directly.
|
| I would think that the two most Pythonic ways to implement the State 
| pattern would be to either have a base class with the common behaviour, and 
| one derived class for each state, mutating the actual class to follow the 
| current state, or simply have some helper classes with the state specific 
| methods and update the instance's dictionary on state change.
|
| Somehow the C++ish alternative of forwarding all the methods doesn't appeal 
| (even though in Python you could do the forwarding once in __getattr__), 
| and the state variable really sucks.

I don't know, for me it's hard, even looking at the example, to
say whether it's awkward or just right, for its intended purpose -
whatever that is.  It's also easy to imagine that a Python programmer
could do better, by common standards of Python programming, without
going to any kind of class mutation.  I don't find class mutation to
be clearly Pythonic, in fact it seems diametrically opposite to the
clarity and explicitness of normal Python solutions.

I might be able picture a practical advantage to the state variable
if I thought about it.  More generally, the instantiation of the
concrete states and the abstraction in separate instance objects.
For example, suppose some of the abstract functions are call and
response, and the response must use the same state that took the
call.  If that state is a separate object, you can pass the state
as a parameter to get this effect, or you can look it up where
you don't have any procedural attachment to the concrete state.
If the state is embedded in the class, that's at best more
complicated to do, raises reentrancy questions etc.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Sat Aug 25 15:30:14 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 19:30:14 GMT
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
References: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9m8uc6$jpj$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> Unless I am missing something, I have looked and I Tkinter does not seem to
> have a DataGrid to receive the rows of a query (a dataset) and display them
> or to bind it into a dataset.  There is the Python DB API after all.  So I
> believe the issue of Datasets should be standardized across the different
> database packages.
> Now, I believe I have an idea on how to build a class and use it in Python
> that can do exactly this.
> But does Tkinter have a DataGrid?  If not, are there any other GUI Python
> packages that come with a DataGrid?

Not if you mean a ready-made data-aware grid control like Visual Basic
has. You'll have to roll your own. One problem is that Tkinter, to the
best of my knowledge doesn't have a grid control at all. I know that
both wxPython and PyQt have a good grid control, and filling a table
yourself from the results of a query is easy enough, and gives you a
lot of flexibility. In fact, at the last VB shop where I worked, use
of data-aware controls was forbidden: we had to fill the grids
ourselves anyway.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 03:32:43 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:32:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1: 

> Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in
> news:Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13: 
> 
>>> It's the same as 
>>>>>> a = (b,c,d) = e = 'wow'
>>> 
>> 
>> I would say that the criminal obfuscation here comes from the ability
>> to perform more than one assignment in a sequence; this is almost as
>> bad as treating an assignment as an expression.  If we write this as
>> 
>>          e = 'wow'
>>          b,c,d = e
>>          a = b,c,d
>> 
>> then it's quite clear what's going on.  (It's just a=b=c etc I'm
>> grumbling about here.)
>> 
> Except that your rewriting has a different effect. In the first case a
> ends up with the same value as e, whereas your 'expanded' version gives
> e=='wow' and a==('w','o','w')
> 
> 

Oops!  Very true.  I should have rewritten it as

    	e = 'wow'
    	b,c,d = 'wow'
    	a = 'wow'

Hmm.  The argument about obfuscation versus repetition comes more clearly 
into focus.  I still think multiple assignment is a bad thing... 


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Aug 13 19:02:53 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:02:53 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org> <cpu1ze9hhy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <upu9zlg0y.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

> But note that future statements were intended in the first place to
> avoid *silent* breakage -- where existing code suddenly means
> something different.  This was the case (in some rare situations) with
> nested scopes and is clearly the case with division.

It seems to me that the relevant PEPs are pretty well focused on any
"incompatible" change, whether silent or not, and the use of
__future__ to maintain at least one release of no difference in
behavior, except for warnings.  Certainly PEP 236's intent section
highlights this.  And I think that's good policy.

I'd probably prefer that it not only relate to silent breakage, but if
that's the desired intent, it might also be helpful to clarify the
PEPs.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mark at swipe.plc.uk  Fri Aug 31 07:38:59 2001
From: mark at swipe.plc.uk (Mark Pawelek)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:38:59 +0100
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OnGPOxQiVf5236PLlcSeODrywHut@4ax.com>

Yes I agree with all your points. However whatever the final system - I think that
flexibility is key so that one could sometimes delimit server code with tags and also get
a quick idea of what the output from a templated system would look like (but also easily
edit the client-side code).  I often get annoyed when writing a page heavy with ASP where
most of the HTML is output using Response.Write because I need to go through the whole web
site to get to that page - wouldn't it be nice if there was a system that allowed one to
input form, cookie and querystring variables on the fly so that the HTML output could be
viewed immediately?

I like to write the pages first as HTML (to get style sheets, graphics and client-side
javascript DHTML right) and to check these pages using Adobe GoLive 5 HTML checker.) With
SVG and XML output something like this will still be needed - especially with interactive
client-side script with lots of DHTML and interactive SVG. When the HTML is looking pretty
(and correct) it's converted to ASP pages. But I don't like the way in which the server
language forces me to escape all the quotes in the HTML thereby making it impossible to
view (and difficult to edit) the resulting HTML until it appears again in the browser.

Clearly I think that a future Python Server solution should be superior to ASP as it is
and as it will become in ASP.NET


On 2 Aug 2001 02:50:00 -0700, paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote:

>Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:<3dofpzk3vq.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
>> ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) writes:
>> > The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
>> > substitutions. These include ZPT, Ehydra and others. There is a *ML
>> > like kit for Webware, but I don't think any serious time was put into
>> > it, hence it is hard to recommend (for Webware).
>
>You might be referring to my package, which I would like to develop
>further if I only had the time. I get the feeling that it's too
>different from what people expect in a template system, though.
>
>> I've become quite fond of PTL's Python-based syntax.  Here's an
>> explanation of why (quoting from a not-yet-public article):
>> 
>>         This syntax is quite different from most HTML templating
>>         languages, which usually look like HTML with magical
>>         delimiters (e.g. <%...%>, <?...?>, <!--#... -->) sprinkled
>
>Horrible, isn't it? ;-)
>
>>         throughout. After we'd been using the Python-inspired PTL
>>         syntax for a while and found we quite liked it, Neil
>>         Schemenauer came up with an explanation for why it works so
>>         well. Most templating languages assume the content is mostly
>>         HTML with just a few small bits of program code here and
>
>I would say that most "small" template languages are like that, but
>DTML, JSP and ASP surely support almost any kind of textual document.
>Only supporting HTML in a template system is far too limiting in my
>view. Enhydra's XMLC seems to be constrained in certain additional
>undesirable ways, such as having the need to generate template
>"handlers" in advance.
>
>[...]
>
>>         Without its authors ever realizing this while designing it,
>>         PTL turns the idea of HTML templating on its head: the default
>>         is program code, and there's an escape sequence into HTML,
>>         namely Python's notation for string literals, which is compact
>>         and easily readable. Functions that actually contain HTML
>>         therefore can look a little messy, but that's only in the
>>         lowest-level functions; the bulk of our PTL code simply calls
>>         other PTL templates.
>
>But doesn't this help to obscure the form of the final document? I was
>once an advocate of building pages up from well-defined, "trusted"
>components which represent a particular concept, but there are some
>situations where logical components of a document don't just fit into
>a self-contained part of a document; for example, attributes of
>objects that one is trying to represent may be mixed together into
>adjacent cells in an HTML table.
>
>> Of course, we don't care about people using graphical HTML editors;
>> that would be impossible to accommodate with PTL.
>
>What would be interesting is a template environment where one can
>visualise the final form of the template and interact with it, without
>having to go through stages of rebuilding and refreshing it, along
>with the potential of the document "breaking" and requiring low-level
>intervention.
>
>I thought that W3C's Amaya might lend itself to such applications, but
>that just has to be added to my list of things that I would like to do
>if I only had the time.
>
>Paul



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug  4 14:41:30 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:41:30 -0400
Subject: Compatibility of smtplib with some SMTP server
References: <mailman.996887407.12175.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6C41DA.3535372D@engcorp.com>

> Dirksen Lau wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using my campus smtp server to test python's send mail script. It works if the mails are addressed to
> campus accounts, but strangely fails if addressed to outside networks, such as xx at yahoo.com, The mails just
> vanish! Using outlook express, I can send mails to xx at yahoo.com throught the campus smtp server. On the other
> hand, the script works again with xx at yahoo.com if I change to another smtp server. I'm wondering smtplib might
> have some compatibility issues with smtp server? Am I correct? If so, what can I do about it? I'm running
> python 1.5.2 win32 bineray version.

Why not try connecting with telnet to the campus
server and sending basic SMTP commands yourself.
If you can get a message through manually, you'll
know for sure it's just something with the Python
implementation that's your problem.  

And in the process, you might discover something
unusual about the campus server which will point
you to the solution...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From jolsen at voxgeneration.com  Thu Aug  9 12:28:12 2001
From: jolsen at voxgeneration.com (Jesper Olsen)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:28:12 +0100
Subject: calling applications from python
Message-ID: <3b72ba42_1@nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net>

It is possible to call applications from a python program using, e.g.
the os.system command:

os.system("ls -l")

Is it possible to attach the output from this command to a file?
I would like to be able to read this output, instead of just sending it to
stdout.

Cheers
Jesper




From aa8vb at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 21 10:30:13 2001
From: aa8vb at yahoo.com (Randall Hopper)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:30:13 -0400
Subject: Build problems on IRIX (TRIX)
In-Reply-To: <k0ny9olpul5.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>; from hove@phys.ntnu.no on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 10:59:18AM +0200
References: <k0ny9olpul5.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <20010821103013.A6060629@vislab.epa.gov>

Joakim Hove:
 |i have problems building the shared object files on IRIX computer, the
 |build failes with the following error message (example shows the
 |attempt to build fpectl.so - but it fails on all shared object files):
 |
 |  ld -shared -all build/temp.irix64-6.5-2.1/fpectlmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -o build/lib.irix64-6.5-2.1/fpectl.so
 |  ld32: ERROR   48 : Cannot access registry file ./so_locations (No locks available) - ignored.
 |  ld32: FATAL   51 : Can't assign virtual addresses for fpectl.so of size 10000 within specified range.  Please check your registry file ./so_locations.


http://groups.google.com/groups?th=74d06df146d39cee,2
http://groups.google.com/groups?th=5e0ca0bc3f65ea62,4

Randall

-- 
Randall Hopper
aa8vb at yahoo.com



From bbollenbach at home.com  Sat Aug  4 18:29:56 2001
From: bbollenbach at home.com (Brad Bollenbach)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:29:56 GMT
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <EH_a7.11510$DW1.1860117@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

"Learn to Program Using Python":

http://www.aw.com/product/0,2627,0201709384,00.html

Though I haven't read it myself, it seems to fit the bill for what you're
looking for, and has the stamp of a respected publisher (Addison-Wesley) on
its cover.

"Michael Briel" <kruge at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:9khr73$5rm$03$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi there!
>
> I'm generally interested in Python - can anybode point me to either a book
> or a page that teaches you from the beginning how to use this language? I
> generally know how to program computers, but I haven't done it in ages, so
> it better be "for Dummies"... ;o)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
> <<If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing is to
keep
> the students from just trying to yodel right off. You see, we build to
> that.>>
>
>
>




From lutz at rmi.net  Tue Aug 14 14:01:06 2001
From: lutz at rmi.net (lutz at rmi.net)
Date: Tue Aug 14 14:01:06 2001
Subject: Python training in Colorado, Sept 17-19
Message-ID: <auto-000075373927@cgpro.iccx.net>

Due to demand, I will be holding another Python training
session in Longmont, Colorado, on September 17-19 2001.
Registration is now open for this class.
  
This is a public class, open to individual enrollments, 
and will cover the same topics and materials as the 3-day
onsite sessions that I teach.  For a full description of 
this class session, and all registration details, please 
visit this web page:

http://www.rmi.net/~lutz/sept-longmont-class.html

--Mark Lutz  (http://www.rmi.net/~lutz)  [PyMailGui 1.0]

===
[My apologies for posting this to the big list, but I've
lost track of all the people who have expressed in this.]




From rhok2807 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 23:34:37 2001
From: rhok2807 at yahoo.com (Don't Miss It.)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:34:37 -0800
Subject: Don't Miss It!
Message-ID: <UTC200108090028.CAA15864@hera.cwi.nl>

I am at the top of a hot new company that is just now starting it's
massive explosion. This company has the greatest compensation plan in the
history of network marketing and you have the opportunity to get in at the
top, but not for long. I am not going to go into great detail in this e
-mail but if you are really serious about making money and you want to be
in the right program that will get you making the big dollars then waste
no time. 
 
Here is what you need to do.
Send an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo.com
and I will send you more information immediately.
 
Once you have done this I will be in contact to get you more information
as quick as possible before you no longer have time to be positioned at
the top. Just ask yourself the following questions:
"Have I ever had the opportunity to be in a mlm program at the top?"
"Would I like to have an opportunity like that?"
 
If your answer to the second question was "YES" then waste no time sending
an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo.com for more information and I will waste no
time getting back to you with the important information that you will need
to get going..
 
This Is Your Chance To Be At The Top For A Change!
 
DO NOT reply to this e-mail for more information because you may never get
it and you certainly do not want that, so send an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo
.com for more information immediately. Just so you know I have my e-mail
account set up so when you send an e-mail for more information you will
immediately receive an e-mail that reads "Yahoo! Auto Response" in the
subject line and do not worry it will not put you on a list of any kind. I
did this to ensure that you get the important information right away and
do not have to wait for me.
 
I Look Forward To Working With You!
Sincerely,
Bill Miller
(540) 347-9055








To be removed from future mailings: 
mailto:rhok2807 at yahoo.com?Subject=Remove 








From stevencooper at isomedia.com  Thu Aug  2 21:19:37 2001
From: stevencooper at isomedia.com (stevencooper at isomedia.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:19:37 -0700
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
In-Reply-To: <9kchf3$meu$1@news.btv.ibm.com>; from Peter.Mayne@au1.ibm.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:55:57AM +1000
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <9kchf3$meu$1@news.btv.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20010802181937.A2812@isomedia.com>

On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:55:57AM +1000, Peter Mayne wrote:
> .Net is the most recent popular example of this. Given the library support,
> it doesn't matter what language you use, and you can therefore use the best
> language for the task at hand. With .Net, you can use Fortran for the
> numeric modules, COBOL for the "traditional" database heavy lifting modules,
> and Python.Net to tie those modules together. (Yes, all three of those are
> or will be available for .Net.) You can even subclass your Fortran classes
> using Eiffel.Net, and subclass those with COBOL, whereas CPython can only be
> subclassed by, or from, more CPython. (Or C extensions, which is probably
> beyond the scope of this epistle.) Can someone please point out why being
> restricted to CPython is better here?
> 
> Note that .Net is *not* offering a core language, but a Common Language
> Runtime (CLR) upon which you can layer any language you like, and all of the
> languages will interact happily with each other. (I'm not recommending .Net
> in this post, just using it as a currently widely known example. Nor am I
> arguing that Microsoft may or may not be leading you up a garden path - I'm
> just using it as a technical example.)

Glad you added that last parenthetical statement. :-)

I would just like to stress that glue layers like .NET, Corba and COM
must always provide the lowest common denominator.  For example, can
you add attributes to a Python object through Fortran via the .NET
layer.

You need these higher level glue layers when you must interoperate
between large diverse components.  You have no choice if Fortran must
call into Eiffel.  If you want the power of Python you must use
"thinner glue".

Cheers,
Steve

-- 

                  \_O<  \_O<  \_O<
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Steve Cooper          Redmond, WA



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 02:54:58 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:54:58 +0200
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lig4u0r55@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Jesse W" <jessw at loop.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998013446.19337.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> resolve.  My doubts lie with the thought that it is very difficult to
> figure out what the requirements of a program will be before you
> write the program,

Which is why, ideally, you have the customer as part of the
development team -- like all XP practices, this is mutually
reinforcing with the others.  The customer's role in the team
is first of all to define the "stories" that the program will have
to meet -- the acceptance tests.  This can't be done ahead of
time -- which is why the customer must ideally be _part_ of
the team, refining and changing the stories as he or she gains
a better understanding of what, exactly, are the business needs.
(Also, as the developers make and refine estimates of how much
work it will be to meet the requirements of each story, the
customer must make the business decision of _prioritizing_,
iteration by iteration -- only the customer can weigh the real
business relevance of various objectives versus the developers'
updated estimates of their costs).

Part of the motivation for XP and other lightweight, adaptive,
iterative approaches is exactly that the classic "waterfall"
model, where it's assumed that all the requirements are to
be determined before design, and all design accomplished
before coding, etc, is such a bad match for the reality of most
software development projects.  But if developers are in a
vacuum, with no real feeling for what business value the
system is supposed to deliver, and no rich continuing feedback
from the customer, on what basis would they adjust the
requirements iteratively?  There HAS to be customer involvement,
one way or another.  "Release early, release often" may be one
way, but you need highly responsive customers for that, too.

If you as the developer are going to be your own customer,
you can do it, as long as you manage to "switch hats" to the
different roles.

> and will this method make programming into a
> tiresome, irritating task, even if I can write these bigger programs?

On the contrary, it seems to me.  Methodologies geared on your
producing lots of paperwork seem much more tiresome and
irritating than ones where the key deliverables are running code
(including tests), particularly if the heavyweight ones don't work:-).

> My question to you all is this:  Do you have any suggestions on
> how to deal with learning to use unit testing in this way, or examples
> of setting up games with this kind of unit testing, or GUI programs?

Unit tests that are not automated have modest value.  Fortunately,
the *units* (components) CAN be tested with test harnesses that
don't actually draw to the screen nor wait for joystick input (etc)
but rather simulate those activities to check the logic of the various
components, producing textual output that can be checked by the
usual means.  The *acceptance* test (the customer's stories) may
be a different issue -- we've had some modest success with a
"capture and playback" approach, but that requires a "mock system"
be running to do your "capturing" in the first place, and there are
lots of uncertainties on how to keep the C&P test suites useful when
the GUI's layout and logic change.


Alex





From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug  7 19:19:50 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:19:50 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3B6FEE8E.6070505@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <qI_b7.80071$EP6.19448689@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

You are asking for multiple crossconcatenation: l[0] * l[1] * ...
*l[n-1]
(using * loosely here).  Grouping this as l[0] * (l[1] *
(...(l[n-2]*l[n-1])...) puts the combos in 'lexicographic' order: l[0]
varies slowest, l[n-1] varies fastest.  The recursive formulation
cc(ll) = ll[0] * cc(ll[1:]) leads directly to Just's program.

An alternative to building the output more or less in parallel is to
build each combo one at a time in a worklist:

def crosscat(lseq):
  if not lseq: return []
  n = len(lseq)
  worklist = [0]*n
  func = ''.join           # return combos as string if all seqs are,
else tuple
  for seq in lseq:
    if type(seq) != type(''):
      func = tuple; break
  result = []
  global _cc_ # delete with nested scoping
  def
_cc_(k,lseq=lseq,n=n,worklist=worklist,func=func,respend=result.append
):
    global _cc_
    if k == n:
      respend(func(worklist))
    else:
      for item  in lseq[k]:
        worklist[k] = item
        _cc_(k+1)
  _cc_(0)
  return result

This version is trivially turned into generator by replacing first
return and respend with yield and removing result and second return.
This pattern of initializing and then defining and calling an inner
function for the actual recursion is fairly common.  I also used it
for the partition problem of a few weeks ago.  Based on my experience
with that problem, I would expect an iterative version to be about 30%
faster.

Terry J. Reedy







From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Aug 12 18:29:09 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:29:09 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
In-Reply-To: <20010812195951.22E90392B@darjeeling>
References: <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com>
 <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com>
 <20010812195951.22E90392B@darjeeling>
Message-ID: <eUdmCLA1Mwd7Ew+D@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <20010812195951.22E90392B at darjeeling>, Moshe Zadka
<m at moshez.org> writes
>On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> The real wart I feel is that the module a has two names, one when run as
>> a script and the other when imported. 
>> 
>> I suppose there is some overriding implementation issue, but it seems to
>> me that in the file a.py
>> 
>> __file__ and __name__ ought always to be defined and given the
>> appropriate 'right' values.
>
>What would you want to do if the script is not named "a.py" but "a"?
>__name__ is supposed to be a valid entry into sys.modules.

In that case you could really say it's not a module and invent a name. I
wouldn't be able to import it.
-- 
Robin Becker



From baptiste.ledesert at wanadoo.fr  Fri Aug  3 05:38:51 2001
From: baptiste.ledesert at wanadoo.fr (Baptiste Ledesert)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 02:38:51 -0700
Subject: dbi.program-error
Message-ID: <2d14aed5.0108030135.730fe2b@posting.google.com>

I have a problem. my program is:

myconn=odbc.odbc('db_log')
mycursor=myconn.cursor()
mycursor.execute('INSERT INTO Attaque VALUES(07/05/2001
12:00:00,0,0,0,0,0);')
mydata = mycursor.fetchall()
mycursor.close()
myconn.close()

My database has 6 arguments.the first arguments is a date with format:
mm/dd/yyyy hh:mm:ss

error message is:
dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too few
parameters. Expected 1. in EXEC

Why there is this message?

Thanks
Baptiste


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Aug 27 16:38:10 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:38:10 GMT
Subject: intentional tease ( was: New Python User Question)
References: <mailman.998816920.4899.python-list@python.org> <9me14t01035@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9olbth.hhk.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

27 Aug 2001 10:48:13 -0700, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> pisze:

> However, in working on my little project, I've realized that even
> leaving dynamic variables aside, certain things in the design of
> Python are inherently "slow".  A simple example is the fact that
> Python allows negative array indices.  When implementing that,
> one can only check for a negative index, then add the length.
> And even if it wasn't negative, you have to bounds-check the result,
> to possibly raise an IndexError.  (An "assert" won't do: the Python
> code might have been written to rely on an IndexError.)

For this very problem it helps to use iteration protocols instead of
indexing where possible.

Unfortunately there are other issues, e.g. using zip instead of
indexing two sequences by the same index currently creates many
temporary pair objects. But at least bounds checking and handling
negative indices can be eliminated without sophisticated analysis of
possible values of variables holding numbers.

Having bulk functions for iteration over arrays helped me to eliminate
many bounds checking in Glasgow Haskell Compiler's array implementation.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From eyal at hyperroll.com  Sun Aug 26 15:04:54 2001
From: eyal at hyperroll.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:04:54 +0300
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998622877.14447.python-list@python.org> <slrn9odhni.139.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <3b894834@news.bezeqint.net>

> make bubble sort optimal. I don't know whether the work
> Knuth references was done *only* in order to find a way
> to declare bubble sort optimal, or whether it's something
> someone was interested in for other reasons.

You can define silly systems with arbitrary rules to make (almost?) any 
algorithm optimal.



From ddusa at ziplip.com  Tue Aug  7 08:04:17 2001
From: ddusa at ziplip.com (ddusa)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:04:17
Subject: $12 Investment...$10,000 Return!!!
Message-ID: <E15UAmt-0004m4-00@mail.python.org>

THIS IS THE SUPER FAST ONE!!!!!

While you're waiting for the others to work,  this little gem will put $10,00 in 
your pockett in as little as two weeks!!..I guarantee it!!  Your only cost is a 
couple hours of your time and $10 or $20.  That's it.

                          THE GIFTING CLUB  (please take two min. to read this)

If you want to make several thousand dollars really quick, then please 
take two minutes to read and understand the program I am sharing with 
you.  No this is not what you think.  You do not have to send $5 to five 
people to buy a report, receipt, or get their mailing list.  Nor will you need 
to invest more money later to get things going.

      THIS IS THE FASTEST EASIEST PROGRAM YOU"VE EVER SEEN

Complete this in a couple hours and you'll never forget the day you 
received it.  If you are doing other programs, by all means stay with them.  
The more the merrier...please read on.

First, there are only three levels, not four, five or even nine like some other 
programs.  This three level program is much more realistic and much, 
much faster because it is so easy.  The response to this program is VERY 
HIGH and VERY FAST!!  You receive your money in a couple weeks, not 
a couple months.  

TRUE STORY:  Cindy Allen ran this summation four times last year.  The 
first time she received $3,000 in two weeks and $7,000 the next three 
weeks.   When this program is continued, as it should be,  EVERYONE 
PROFITS!!   Don't be afraid to gift a stranger.  There's an old saying that 
gifts will come back to you ten fold.

THE DETAILS:  You only need to mail out 20 copies, not 200 or more like 
other programs.  Mail them to friends, relatives,  poeple who send you their 
programs,  people who you know will continue the process.  Even if you're 
now in another program, stay with it by all means, but do yourself a favor, 
do this one as well!!  It is very simple and takes a very small ( $10 to $20 ) 
investment.  This will be big before the others even trickle in.  Just give 
ONE person $5.  That's it!!  Follow the simple instructions and in a couple 
weeks you'll have $10,000 because most people will respond to the low 
investment high speed and huge profit potential.  So lets's help each other 
by keeping it going!!

1. On a blank piece of paper write your name, address, and email address 
LEGIBLY and wrap it around a FIVE dollar bill.  Send it to the FIRST 
person on the list below ( #1 ).  ONLY THAT PERSON ON THE LIST 
GETS YOUR NAME AND A $5 BILL!!

2.  Retype the list, REMOVE the FIRST NAME ( #1 ) from the list.  Move 
the other two names up and add your name in the ( #3 ) position.

3.  If you're using snail mail, make however many copies you're sending 
out, ( at least 20 ) and send them out today!!!  If you're using email, make 
your initial mailing now and save it.  Every time you recieve an opportunity 
letter, mail them this.  

There is no more to do.  When your name reaches the first position,  it will 
be your turn to collect all your gifts.  

Can you do it??  Of course you can.  Get creative.  Each time you recieve 
a "Get Rich Quick" or "MLM" offer in the mail or your email, respond with 
THIS LETTER.  Your name will climb to the #1 position at dizzying rates.  
Some of you may want to purchase mailing lists or send out hundreds or 
even thousands of letters.  That's great.  The sky really is the limit with this 
unique GIFTING CLUB.

ACT FAST AND GET PAID FAST!  Honesty and Integrity make this plan 
work.  Send $5 to the first name only.  Remove that name and move the 
other two up one position.  Add your name to position ( #3 ).  Copy names 
and addresses EXACTLY. 

#1. Daniel Weaver,  P.O. Box 7, Clarksburg, MO 65025

#2. S. Denyer, P.O. Box 406, Triangle, VA 22172

#3. Bayberry Store, 114 S. Main #305, Fond du Lac, WI 54935

This is a one time mailing so no need to remove.  If you wish we will 
remove your name from our data base.  Type remove in the subject line 
and email  ddusa at ziplip.com .



From not.this at seebelow.org  Sun Aug 12 18:01:33 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:01:33 -0500
Subject: immutable count and index
Message-ID: <3B76FCBD.D55B5B98@seebelow.org>

Hi Gang,

Does anybody know why the "count" and "index" methods are available for
mutable, but not immutable, sequences?  (See typesseq.html in the
docs.)  Specifically, although they _are_ supported for strings (in a
more general form than mutable sequences, which allows a start and end
position), they aren't supported for tuples.

I can't say that I use these two much, but as "const" methods, I don't
see any reason why they don't make equal sense for all immutable
sequences.  To me, it looks like the thing to do would be to make the
general more form used by strings available for all sequence types.

python-is-a-gem-in-the-rough-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Sat Aug  4 13:42:38 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:42:38 GMT
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
References: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com> <20010804.134859.653468858.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <20010804.135022.2086206725.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article
<20010804.134859.653468858.2692 at d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>, "Mark
Nenadov" <mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca> wrote:

> In my experiences wxPython is more powerful of a GUI library. I think
> wxPython is much more modern. However, there are tradeoffs. Tkinter is
> supplied with most Python distributions, while wxPython is not.
> Performance wise, I would guess that wxPython is faster than Tkinter
> because it doesn't have to go through the intermediate step of "Tcl". I
> have found that working with the wxPython API was much nicer than
> Tkinter, but your experience may vary :)

One more thing, in my limited experience, I have found it easier to find
helpful documentation on wxPython.

-- 
"Son, is that spagetti on your screen, or is it Perl code?" - Anon.

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 13:51:02 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:51:02 -0500
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <15217.31750.476166.731100@beluga.mojam.com>

    if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
        vowel='true'

Try this instead:

    if fname[1] in "aeiou":
        vowel = "true"

or if you're not married to the vowel="true" bit:

    vowel = fname[1] in "aeiou"

seems somewhat cleaner to me.  It will have a value of 1 (true) or 0 (false)
depending on the value of the "in" expression.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 27 15:28:13 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:28:13 -0700
Subject: Python version dilemma
References: <9me54u$4a3$1@flood.xnet.com>
Message-ID: <9me70d$i30$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9me54u$4a3$1 at flood.xnet.com>,
C. Michael Pilato <cmpilato at typhoon.xnet.com> wrote:
>
>I would be shocked if this is the first time the following question
>has been posted to this list, but I'm willing to risk asking it again
>anyway.
>
>I have a set of scripts that use 2.1 syntax.  Now, I'd really like
>these scripts to, when run by the 1.5 interpreter, gracefully state
>that version 2 is required.  However, my code fails during the
>compilation stage with the 1.5 interpreter (SyntaxError's and such),
>and so never gets the chanced to execute a code portion that might
>print a pretty (or at least useful) error message.
>
>Is there *any way* to do what I'm trying to do.  A few hours of Google
>searching and book reading has turned up nothing thus far.

The only simple way is to use two modules and tell your users to use the
first module, which then imports the second.  It may be convenient to
use a package for the purpose.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From bob at tharin.com  Tue Aug  7 01:40:56 2001
From: bob at tharin.com (Lang)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 22:40:56 -0700
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <9kj96l$vub$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9e231a88.0108062140.1434c3fc@posting.google.com>

Tom Bryan <tbryan at python.net> wrote in message news:<9kj96l$vub$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...
>
> 

The posted script, of course, works perfectly.  But looking back to my
original posting, I realize I didn't really articulate my problem very
clearly.

I store values using cgi.Storage().  To have the values stay valid
from page to page, I am using this or a variation:


form = cgi.FieldStorage()

for key in form.keys():
    if not key == 'send':
        print "<INPUT TYPE=hidden name= " + key + " value= " +
form[key].value + ">",


So I would click my way to the day/month/year that I wanted to change
and click that day. This pulls up the data from the day, which, when I
finish making changes, it submits the changes to a script which
actually does the updating to the database.

In my original updating script, it updates the values in the database,
sets the form values as shown above, then prints out a button.  When
this button is clicked, it loads the default month script with the
month/year values set to those of the date I was just changing.  With
the HTML bit quoted below I click the submit button after making
changes, the database gets updated, and the default month script loads
all with just one click.  That is what I want, but the values are lost
and it defaults to the current date.  This can be a pain if I am
making several changes in December and it's now August.

Sorry for the long wordy post.  I've little experience programming and
less with Python, but I'm trying.

In short, does anyone know how to submit data to a script, have the
script run, and then load another page with the values still intact
with no user interaction (other than the first click)?  Thanks again.

---

-Lang

<knghtbrd> it's too bad most ancient unices are y2k compliant
<|Rain|> too bad?
<|Rain|> why, because people won't upgrade until 2038?


> ------ redirect.py ------
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> """A fairly simple CGI script that sends users elsewhere""" 
> 
> print "Content-Type: text/html"  # Just in case the redirect doesn't work.
> print "Location: http://www.python.org/\n\n"  # redirect
> # Just in case the redirect doesn't work.
> print """<html>
> <head>
>     <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;url=http://www.python.org/">
>     <title>Redirect</title>
> </head>
> <body>
>     Return to <a href="http://www.python.org/">Python web site</a>
> </body>
> </html>
> """
> ------
> 
> sending-users-elsewhere-for-2-years-ly yours
> ---Tom


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 03:51:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 03:51:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: child process
In-Reply-To: <3B89F556.70500@senux.com.NOSPAM>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270335300.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Brian Lee wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I made a child process by fork function. When the mother
> process is killed, the child process is killed also.
>
> But I want child process not to be killed even the mother
> process is killed. How can I child process run independently?

Simple: Don't allow the parent to die before the child is done. The threading
module is good for this.

> Any examples code?

---
#! /usr/bin/python1.5

import sys
import os
import time
import threading

thread=None

def child():
  print 'Child started!'
  print 'Child delaying...'
  time.sleep(10)
  print 'Child done!'


print 'Parent started!'
thread=threading.Thread(None, child, 'child')
thread.start()
print 'Parent joining!'
thread.join()
print 'Parent done!'
sys.exit(0)
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 22 18:51:09 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:51:09 -0700
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3B83CFA6.F8E7ACA8@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3B84375D.751F79E1@ccvcorp.com>

I should clarify that, of course, hasattr() by itself does not guarantee
that you're finding a method (though neither does the bare eval() shown
above);  you'll have to examine the attribute to determine whether it is
a method or not.  This shouldn't be too difficult, however.

>>> callable(B.Spam)
1

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From steve at spvi.com  Tue Aug 28 10:32:55 2001
From: steve at spvi.com (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:32:55 -0500
Subject: configure.in syntax to find python binary during build... 
Message-ID: <91F2FFD2-9BC1-11D5-9A2E-0050E480B13C@spvi.com>

Hi Python Folk,

	I'd like to modify configure.in for building Python on darwin. The 
current configure.in uses "-undefined suppress" for generating shared 
libs, and this get's a little tricky in later versions of darwin. I 
snooped around on the darwin mailing list(s) and someone pointed me in 
the direction of "-bundle_loader" which tells ld where to find symbols 
that the library needs to have from the loading binary. Anyway.. since I 
choose '.exe' as the --with-suffix then my python binary turns out to be 
"python.exe" so this works for me in 'configure':

         Darwin/*|next/*)
                 if test "$ns_dyld"
                 then LDSHARED='$(CC) $(LDFLAGS) -bundle -bundle_loader 
python.exe'
                 else LDSHARED='$(CC) $(CFLAGS) -nostdlib -r';
                 fi

  However.. someone else might choose a different suffix, and when 
building shared modules in other directories I'm thinking that you may 
need a full path to the python binary for this to work. Long story 
short: How to you spell "Path to the installed binary of python" in 
configure.in so that I can modify it for newer versions of darwin?

thanks!
-steve




From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Thu Aug  9 00:01:38 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 04:01:38 GMT
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com> <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com> <e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <CWnc7.240992$EF2.29452474@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Lad <printers at sendme.cz> menulis:
| Hi Doug,
| Thank you for your email.
| What I need is to automate posting to web sites such as mail.yahoo.com
| (to check email AUTOMATICALY)  that use cookies to sign-in. In Perl I
| can do it very easily. Is it possible to do it in Python as well?

It's possible, but you have to do it yourself (urllib doesn't handle
cookies for you AFAIK).  First you have to get the headers from the
file-like object that urlopen() returns:

>>> import urllib2
>>> f=urllib2.urlopen('http://www.cnn.com/')
>>> f.info().headers
['Server: Netscape-Enterprise/4.1\r\n', 'Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:29:54
GMT\r\n', 'Set-cookie: CNNid=cf301326-22153-997327795-1;
expires=Wednesday, 30-Dec-2037 16:00:00 GMT; path=/;
domain=.cnn.com\r\n', 'Last-modified: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:29:55
GMT\r\n', 'Expires: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:30:55 GMT\r\n', 'Cache-control:
private,max-age=60\r\n', 'Content-type: text/html\r\n', 'Connection:
close\r\n']
>>> f.close()
>>> cookie = f.info().getheader('Set-cookie')
>>> cookie
'CNNid=cf301326-22153-997327795-1; expires=Wednesday, 30-Dec-2037
16:00:00 GMT; path=/; domain=.cnn.com'

>From now on, you need to send a Cookie header with the cookie data
whenever you make any requests back to the server.  You can do that
by creating an HTTP request object each time with that header:

>>> req = urllib2.Request('http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/')
>>> req.add_header('Cookie', cookie)
>>> f = urllib2.urlopen(req)


-- 
Cliff Crawford                           http://www.sowrong.org/
"Today's Goths, who generally tend to be in their teens and 20s,
have nothing to do with the Germanic Visigoths of Europe in the
third and fourth centuries A.D."               -- Jimmy Stewart


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Mon Aug 13 01:29:05 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 05:29:05 GMT
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
References: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9l7oj1$obq$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Franz Steinh?usler <f.steinhaeusler at amatic.com> wrote:
> hello ng,

> Please excuse me, if some of the questions are
> already handled in the faq.

> I want to learn python and GUI programming.

> What is better (and easier to learn):
> wxpython or tkinter? (in a win32 environment)

> Is there a graphical python viewer application available
> (like irfan view or xnview)
> I would like to accomodate such a program for my purposes.

> many thanks in advance!


You can now once more get a free PyQt environment on Windows:

http://www.thekompany.com/projects/pykde

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 30 15:23:50 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:23:50 -0500
Subject: Two Jython Questions
References: <toqj9braams57a@corp.supernews.com> <3b8dac97.54891359@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <tot4pm9ol6u5f0@corp.supernews.com>

Mats
I figured out how to run things and how to set the path of classes.
However, I am still running into one problem.  I am compiling a test.py file
into test.class using jythonc and keep getting this error on running the
class file:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Test
By the way, I discovered that it creates test.java too.
Maan

"Mats Wichmann" <mats at laplaza.org> wrote in message
news:3b8dac97.54891359 at news.laplaza.org...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:12:08 -0500, "Maan M. Hamze"
> <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
>
> :I just got into Jython.  I installed version 2.  After trying it out, I
> :wanted to import Java classes.  But I noticed that it will not import
from
> :jar or zip files of java classes.  In other words, I had to unzip (unjar)
> :the classes into a directory where Jython can find it.
> :1.  Is there a way to make Jython import classes directly from archives
> :(zip. jar)?  Or is this not supported.
>
> The CLASSPATH must include the jar file itself, not just the directory
> it's in.  Take a look at the Jython script itself and you'll see
> that's what it does (it will be jython.bat on WIndoze, a shell script
> on UNIX/Linux).
>
> :2.  Can Jython save a py script into a java file or is the py script
> :compiled directly into a .class file?
>
> If you want to build classfiles you can do so with jythonc. That's the
> analogue to javac, except it's Python->java bytecode instead of Java->
> java bytecode.  There's no translation to java /source/.
>
> :All in all I am impressed - this program can spoil someone into not
writing
> :a code of Java ever again.
> :Thanks,
> :Maan
> :
> :
>
> Mats Wichmann
>




From kosh at aesaeion.com  Tue Aug 14 20:23:07 2001
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:51:07 +0028
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> I just started playing with python and haven't been able to figure
> out the following things from the docs I've found:
> 
> 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> real and imaginary parts separately?  I guess I could say
>    x = (a + a.conjugate())/2
>    y = (a - a.conjugate())/2
> but I can't take this language seriously if that's what the designers
> intended.
> 

>>> a = 3+4j
>>> dir(a)
['conjugate', 'imag', 'real']
>>> a.imag
4.0
>>> a.real
3.0

> 2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
>    I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
>      is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>      is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>      is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>      is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type
> 

>>> import types
>>> a = 3
>>> isinstance(a, types.IntType)
1
>>> a = 3L
>>> isinstance(a, types.LongType)
1
>>> a = 3.0
>>> isinstance(a, types.FloatType)
1
>>> a = 3+2j
>>> isinstance(a, types.ComplexType)
1

> 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
>    branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
>    implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
>    Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.

I am not sure what this question is asking so I will leave it to others to 
answer.


From christopher.abraham at verizon.net  Fri Aug 24 14:45:30 2001
From: christopher.abraham at verizon.net (Chris Abraham)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:45:30 -0400
Subject: ISO Python/Zope coder to Customise SPOKE.NET Site
Message-ID: <B7AC190A.1F1D6%christopher.abraham@verizon.net>

Hi:

I have a client who needs a python guru who already knows Zope/Python and
has experience working on SPOKE.NET systems.  Must be able to put the time
in and work on an hourly rate or contract.  They want someone who is already
past the Zope/Python learning curve.  The SPOKE.NET products are Zope
products and what this client needs is someone who can customise the look
and feel of the site to their requirements.

The client is a company that develops Virtual Online communities and events
as well as Virtual Spaces for conferences, communities, and working teams.

Its a plus if you know the SPOKE.NET tools already, but its not required.
Its a plus if you live in the Metro-Washington area, but its not required.

Please email or fax me your r?sum? and your hourly rate and I will collect
them and submit them to the client.

Regards,

Chris
-- 
chrisabraham <chris at zdev.com> <http://zdev.com> <page at zdev.com>
   +12024527442wk +12024780276fx aim:chrisphur icq:46181597
   1231 pennsylvania avenue, southeast, washington, dc 20003



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Aug 19 18:59:41 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 15:59:41 -0700
Subject: __dynamic__ attribute
References: <mailman.997827933.4726.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lpgct$l2f$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997827933.4726.python-list at python.org>,
 <James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote:
>
>Is it worth considering the possibility of making it more granular (somehow
>controlling separately the modification of attribute values versus the
>addition or deletion of attributes, perhaps)?  Currently it controls the
>changing of a class object in all ways (if set to 1 it makes the class
>object immutable).  

Um, you mean setting __dynamic__ to zero makes it immutable, I think.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Aug 13 14:31:05 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:31:05 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
Message-ID: <OF0ACB9781.24AB6613-ON88256AA7.00658844@i2.com>

and when using 2.2

        class Temp: pass
        newbie = Temp()

can be replaced with

        from types import ObjectType
        newbie = ObjectType()

Jim




                                                                                                                   
                    "Alex Martelli"                                                                                
                    <aleaxit at yahoo.com        To:     python-list at python.org                                       
                    >                         cc:                                                                  
                    Sent by:                  Subject:     Re: Copy constructors                                   
                    python-list-admin@                                                                             
                    python.org                                                                                     
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   
                    08/09/01 01:14 PM                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




"David Smith" <drs at labs.agilent.com> wrote in message
news:3B72DCBA.C99465BC at labs.agilent.com...
    ...
> class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
> bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
    ...
> Is there a way for __copy__ to create a bare object of the same class,
> which it can proceed to populate?

Piece of cake:

class Fleep:
    def __init__(self, x, y, z):
        print 'lots',x,'of',y,'work',z
    def __copy__(self):
        class Temp: pass
        newbie = Temp()
        newbie.__class__=self.__class__
        print "very little work"


Alex



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 14:09:49 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:09:49 -0500
Subject: how to stop a server (TCPServer, for example)
In-Reply-To: <003401c12a67$88732490$4cc809c0@pckrumm.com>
References: <15234.34269.179375.245793@beluga.mojam.com>
        <003401c12a67$88732490$4cc809c0@pckrumm.com>
Message-ID: <15234.41965.996081.353823@beluga.mojam.com>

    Huayin> do you think it is reasonable to patch the SocketServer.py so
    Huayin> that it is easier to write request handler to stop the server?

I'm not sure it's worth the effort.  The system is designed so that you
subclass the relevant server class in your code and override serve_forever.
If you feel strongly about it, visit the Python project on SourceForge:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/

and submit a patch...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tavis at calrudd.com  Sat Aug 11 17:05:54 2001
From: tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:05:54 -0700
Subject: C API  -- a second ?
Message-ID: <01081114055403.00476@lucy>

Hi,
how does one split a PyString in C? Do I need to use 
PyUnicode_Split() and convert back to plain strings from 
the unicode objects or is there some other way of doing 
this?

Cheers,
Tavis



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug  9 14:07:56 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:07:56 -0700
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
References: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com> <3b715b93.7684560@news.mailops.com>
Message-ID: <3B72D17B.E9C5A2E1@ccvcorp.com>

chajadan wrote:

> I too would like to know how to do this. I don't want to have to
> restart PyWin each time I have made changes to certain things.
>
> say for example I change a module and want to reload it, but imported
> it thus:
>
> from my_module import *
>
> How do I reload the * from my_module?
>
> Right now I just close and restart.
>

Of course, recommended procedure is to avoid using ' from module import *
' on anything other than stable modules that are designed for this usage
(e.g., Tkinter, wxPython, etc...)  If you're making frequent changes to a
module, it's probably safer to use the standard import module and
module.attr syntax.  Among other things, this makes it much easier to
reload your changes.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 16:06:45 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:06:45 -0400
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <1Vbj7.71653$54.3810366@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:G89j7.54140$c8.24141594 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
[ ... ]
>
> > >>>> foo(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000l, 2)
> > > '5000000000000000200000000000000000000000.00'
>                      ^
>
> Not just incorrect, but the incorrect digit is right in the middle of the
> number, not in the least significant place.
>
Well by my count it occurs in the seventeenth decimal place, which given the
precision on floats is about what you ought to expect. Clearly if you need
to deal with numbers of arbitrary precision you are going to *have* to
represent them as longs and keep a scaling factor (or use some other similar
technique).

However, I would say that for most normal accounting purposes (i.e. numbers
up to the tens of millions, significant to 2 DP, or ten significant figures)
floating point numbers will be perfectly satisfactory *provided roundoff
error is controlled at each step*. [This will also be good enough for the
OMB, since they seem to round everything to the nearest million anyway :-)]

In practice this means rounding to 2 D.P. after each calculation and before
storing the result. Working to ten significant figures means that
representational errors in the seventeenth decimal place simply aren't going
to propagate into the portion of the number you are using to represent your
money.

Being aware of representational problems is all very well, but at the same
time you don't want to make a rod for your own back by adopting
unnecessarily complicated solutions when the tools ready to hand will do
what you want.

As a sidenote, I learned about accountant's attitudes to accuracy when I
worked on my first freelance job, converting a single-currency ledger system
to multi-currency. Working on the Japanese Yen gave some very large figures
for invoice totals, and early checks revealed that invoices over a million
Yen could be out by anything up to 0.25 Yen, due to my inattention to
accumulation of the aforementioned rounding errors. In my youthful innocence
(alas, long gone) I asked the accountant whether this was a problem.

I still remember the glacial silence while he took the time to think of a
suitably sarcastic reply. In the end he simply said "Of course it bloody
well is, what kind of an outfit do you think we're running here?".

since-when-i've-been-careful-about-monetary-computations-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 10 15:34:24 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:34:24 -0400
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <mailman.997452856.7709.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <8FWc7.9292$0c.65298@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Cris A. Fugate" <fugate at lucent.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000 at IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com...
> Hi, I am trying to port some Tcl stuff to Python. Its kind of disturbing
> that Python cannot handle scope. Sure you have namespaces, but that
> doesn't help in this situation. In Tcl I would just say..
>
> proc swap {a b} {
>    upvar a x
>    upvar b y
>    set z x
>    set x y
>    set y z
> }
> swap a b
>
Not knowing Tcl, I'm assuming that "upvar" effectively means "get address
of" (a bit like the C "&" operator)?

> But in Python I have to say..
>
> def swap (a, b):
>    return b, a
> a,b = swap(a,b)
>
> -or-
>
> def swap ():
>    global a,b
>    x=a
>    a=b
>    b=x
> swap()
>
Yes, but it has a;ready been pointed out that swapping the bindings of two
names is so easy it is actually not worth defining a function for...

> I dont know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Tcl cannot
> handle multiple assignment, but Python cannot handle scoping.
> It makes functions less powerful, but it also seems to make the
> code more readable (IMHO).
>
Python *can* handle scoping. What it can't do is change the value (outside
the function) of a name passed in. This doesn't mean Python can't change
things outside the function, they just can't be simple names.

> BTW, I also noticed that python is rather weak in variable
> substitution. In Tcl I can say..
>
> set x 5; set y "x"
> expr $$y + 1
> =>6
>
> I cant do this in python without resorting to something like
> dictionaries..
>
> y={'x':'z', 'z':5}
> y.get(y.get('x')) + 1
> =>6
>
Or possibly setattr()? By the way, you don't need to use get(), you can use
subscripting instead, so your solution would become

y[y['x']]+1
=> 6

As a matter of programming practice it is rather poor design to introduce
couplings like the ones you prefer. Effectively you make some of your
arguments "output parameters". The problem is that the values of the
variables you use as arguments are invisibly changed, with no visual clue
(like an assignment symbol) that this will happen.

There is usually an easier way to refactor your design to avoid such things,
and your program will gain in clarity by the change. If you want to do what
Tcl can do tehre wouldn't be much point doing it in Python, would there?

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From herzi at runbox.com  Fri Aug 17 07:11:55 2001
From: herzi at runbox.com (Sven Herzberg)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:11:55 +0200
Subject: run-time pipeing
Message-ID: <9liu7d$hdf$06$1@news.t-online.com>

I want to control a linux console client for filesharing via python and
GTK+ via pipes (popen4). I had no problems with pipeing from an program
wich finishes and quits like 'ls', but I can't read anything from a
program that needs additional input (like ftp). It seems that my program
waits for the console program to finish.

Is it possible to create a 'pipeing' frontend to a program like ftp?

Thanks
--
sven


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 07:50:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:50:30 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com> <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l40tk01pfn@enews4.newsguy.com> <MB4yXKAheld7EwsX@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9l5ql10sbt@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MB4yXKAheld7EwsX at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    ...
> Since circularity is already a potential danger (whether or not the main
> script is involved) I don't think it really adds to the clarity of the
> language that the 'main' script gets treated differently. For example if

Not to the clarity, but to the functionality, when the module (normally
meant to be imported) is run as a main script for the typical purpose,
i.e., unit-testing it.

> I have
>
> #a.py
> print 'in a'
> import b
>
> #b.py
> print 'in b'
> import c
>
> #c.py
> print 'in c'
> import a

These are not modules that run unit tests when run as main scripts.

> I consider that a bit strange since it seems that the special case of
> main script circularity is harder to detect/avoid; I believe that's
> onlyc caused by the special module name.

The special module name 'half-breaks' circularity, just enough to
let you run unit tests decently.


Alex





From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug 22 20:22:45 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:22:45 -0700
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <001301c12b69$bb926ae0$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

George wrote:
> Python has been re-written into jpython in which the language
closely
> parallels the java language. The main difference is java
> enforces strong type casting (which is good), where jpython does not
> (its a gimmick to not scare off non professional programmers who
> don't want to take the time to verify every line of code is type
> casted correctly (this is the part where I'll get beat up on) ).

Python is strongly typed. It is just that the type checking is done at
runtime rather than at compile time. Perl, OTOH, is weakly typed
because conversions are implicit at runtime.

Runtime typing can be immensely useful in real applications,
especially were proxying is involved. Imagine that you are doing some
work in XML and using various XML libraries i.e. minidom, PyXML,
Pyana, etc. Each of these has their own DOM implementation and none
share a common base class. In Python, they can all be used
interchangeably because their types are not relevant. They all
implement the same methods with the same semantics so they are
equivalent. In a static language, you would have to write code to
proxy between all of these DOM implementations (*). Painful.

* Java helps you out here a bit through their runtime reflection APIs.
But they are almost as cumbersome as just writing the proxy code.

Cheers,
Brian




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug  2 02:18:10 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:18:10 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:36:03 PDT."
             <9k9qai$3io3o$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> 
Message-ID: <m15SBoA-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> > As the first argument can immediately signify a class method if the
> > same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an uncontentious
> > name popped up.
> 
> How about meta?

Wrong level.

We are talking about a class not a meta class in this context. Now the
class is an instance of some meta class -- I would surely be confused
if it was called `meta`.

Albert Langer's suggestion looked much more promising to me:

def method(class self, param1,...):
def method(class class self, param1,...): ### here `meta` would be right

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug 13 13:01:10 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:01:10 GMT
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <qJTd7.99388$EP6.25247523@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpzo94dqvy.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
[snip]
> Actually, speeding up Python is a very common request

If a class has base class[es], it would seem that multiple lookups
would slow name resolution.  If  all base classes are static, so that
method references are fixed in name and target, then the class
hierarchy could be 'flattened' by putting references to all base class
methods in the local __dict__ for a time/space tradeoff.  Maybe make
optional with __flatten__ attribute.

Terry J. Reedy






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 17:58:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:58:10 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l4a9c023nn@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Glyph Lefkowitz" <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997561650.27157.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?

That's how I'm reading Guido's messages in this thread, too.


> > Let's just say that use of this feature is at your own risk.  It was
> > an experiment.  I *could* restore it partially (see below) but I'd
> > rather not, given that better alternatives are available.
    ...
> Also, as far as I know, better alternatives do not exist; for example,
> "promise" objects from a database which are latently initialized when they
> are accessed.  One module that I use *all the time*;

I don't know of any better way to handle the Promise design pattern,
either.  In C++, I'm having to kludge around it all the time via
letter/envelope idioms -- the possibility of changing classes on
the fly makes it much simpler and more direct.  Hadn't thought
of that earlier...

> twisted.python.rebuild.rebuild, is based entirely upon this "trick".  One
> of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
> and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.

That one seems to be related to _another_ capability (of which I've
seen no indication that it's also going away) -- keeping the same
class object. but changing that object (rebinding method attributes
thereof).  Or maybe I don't understand exactly what you mean?


> Smalltalk's Object>>become: is highly useful for similiar reasons; is
> there a new way to emulate this without __class__ assignment?

It seems to me the functionality of become is homomorphic to that
of class-assignment, unless I'm truly missing something major.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 03:00:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:00:16 +0200
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org> <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com> <9l7k5i$5eh$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9l7tt9012o@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:9l7k5i$5eh$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <3B77150B.9F8FC079 at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >Anything wrong with this, simpler, approach?
> >
> >>>> for x in a.keys():
> >...     print '%s%s' % (x, a[x])
>
> Even simpler and faster:
>
> for x,y in a.items():
>     print '%s%s' % (x,y)

Simpler, yes.  Not necessarily faster, and I was surprised when I
actually measured iteration on .keys vs iteration on .items: the
allocation/building of the N pairs may apparently take longer
than the N [] indexing operations.  Measure the two alternatives
if you do need top speed at this point...


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug  7 07:12:51 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:12:51 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108061100030.15124-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071512190.20396-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

There is PyProlog (Python hooks into SWI-Prolog)...

Roman
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Tuesday, August 07, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "All work and no play, will make you a manager." _/




From writeson at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 20 09:31:46 2001
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 06:31:46 -0700
Subject: Solaris, python and wxPython
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0108200531.385ae8af@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've got Python-2.1.1 and wxPython installed on my Solaris 2.6 Sun
Ultra5 machine and I'm having some problems. The installation went
okay (at least as far I as I can tell, but I'm a newbie to Unis so
something could have slipped by). When I try to run the demo.py
program from the wxPython directory under Python-2.1.1 I get the
following error:

% python demo.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "demo.py", line 3, in ?
    import Main
  File "Main.py", line 15, in ?
    from   wxPython.wx import *
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/__init__.py",
line 20, in ?
    import wxc
ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: relocation error: file
/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/wxc.so: symbol
FindClass__11wxClassInfoPc: referenced symbol not found

Can anyone tell me what this means, how to fix it of anything that
might help me?

Thanks in advance,
Doug Farrell

dfarrell at grolier.com


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 01:34:54 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 05:34:54 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com>

>My take is that, especially in Python, type-related bugs make up an
>extremely small segment of all bugs, and the examples I've seen of
>specifying all that type information dramatically increase the complexity
>of the source code, even to the point of possibly _introducing_ bugs.

I feel alot of synergy for the above sentiment and believe it is quite
insightful. Of late, I've been thinking alot about lexical, grammatical,
and semantic complexity as it applies to computer programming and
the various different correctness memes which float around in the
community. I've concluded  that comprehensible tersness trumps all
other measures of merit.

I believe that there is a sort of Occam's Razor of Coding, as it were,
where given two different programs which execute identically, the one
which is shorter, simpler, and easier to understand is the better
program, notwithstanding any principles it may or may not adhere to.

Various different rules which have crept up over the years such as
"don't use global variables," and "practice strong encapsulation,"
and so forth are all only distractions and are useless to the degree
that in any particular context they don't satisfy Sir Occam's relentless
blade.


Joe Kraska
San Diego
CA



From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 03:01:03 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:01:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996524288.7635.python-list@python.org> <jonathan-D4822F.08343331072001@news.easynet.co.uk> <Xns90EF65598E954michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3B66B3A2.F47BA3E2@engcorp.com> <3B66E4FA.158E7DDA@home.net> <u4qdmtcsd0uj65qgl9itrejaipq1mr36ut@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F051CB9F532michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in
news:u4qdmtcsd0uj65qgl9itrejaipq1mr36ut at 4ax.com: 

> 
>>I would probably only use it in small computational functions that I
>>could efficiently compile. 
> 
> By and large this is nothing a good optimizing JIT can't handle
> without static typing information. QKS is getting a 10-100X improvement
> in Python execution speeds without modifying the Python language.
> http:\\www.smallscript.com. Execution times within 1-2X of C.

Sounds very impressive, almost too good to be true...?  Do you have a more 
specific reference, please?


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Tue Aug  7 10:15:31 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:15:31 +0200
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
Message-ID: <3B83E9E3@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> =====
>I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;))
>trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure
>that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial
>problem.
>
>I have a nested list structure of the following format:
>[[2, 3, 4, 5],
>  [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
>  [6, 2, 7, 4]
>  ....
>  ....
>]
>
>I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from
>each nested list
>
>i.e
>[2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
>[2, 4, 2, ..., ...]
>
>If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code
>it as a series of nested for loops:
>
>i.e
>
>for i in list[0]:
>	for j in list[1]:
>		for k in list[2]:
>				comb = [i, j, k]
>
>but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the
>outermost list is going to be variable in length.
>
>If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and
>give you all the profit ;)

I already have a boss, but this code may do what you want:

#--- begin code ---

# a test list
lst = [
 [1, 2, 3, 4],
 [5, 6, 7, 8, 9],
 [10, 11],
 [12, 13, 14]
]

def permute2(list1, list2):
    """ Helper function to get the combinations of two lists. """
    permutations = []
    for i in list1:
        for j in list2:
            permutations.append([i, j])
    return permutations

def permute(lst):
    permutations = permute2(lst[0], lst[1])
    for ls in lst[2:]:
        p = []
        # add this list to the permutations list
        for item in ls:
            for perm in permutations:
                p.append(perm + [item])
        permutations = p
    return permutations
    
z = permute(lst)
print z
# check length
assert len(z) == reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, map(len, lst))

# test another
lst = [
    ["a", "b"], ["c", "d", "e"]
]
print permute(lst)

#--- end code ---

Disclaimer: Only roughly tested. I don't know if the term "permutations" is 
correct, aside...

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Aug  9 18:45:31 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 18:45:31 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
In-Reply-To: <9kuic9$515$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
	<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org>
	<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org>
	<9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> <9kuic9$515$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <oq1ymk6ees.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Thomas Bellman]

> I wrote:

> > I would always write this as

> >    for x in [ 1, 2, 3 ]:
> >	pass

> I should probably explain this some more.  To me, a tuple isn't something
> that you iterate over.  [...]  The difference between lists and tuples
> isn't really that tuples are read-only, but in how they are used.  [...]

I understand all the nuances you make, and give you reason on them, as I
felt the same not long after I started to write Python code.

On the other hand, tuples are slightly more efficient than lists.  I think
(but am not fully sure) they are a bit more efficiently accessed, in that
there is no indirection from the tuple structure to the sequence of values,
and also, there is no overshoot allocation meant for possible growing.

So, even if we "think" lists, it is better to "write" tuples, despite they
do look more awkward given the context.  This has been a good incentive,
for me, at writing:

    for x in 1, 2, 3:
	pass

Because you do not commit yourself towards tuples or lists, your writing
stays clear, and Python merely does the most efficient choice internally.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Tue Aug  7 16:20:24 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:20:24 -0500 
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C4@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

Great!  But how can I apply this to all files in a directory, where the
directory contains 20 files, without listing each file individually?

-----Original Message-----
From: William Park [mailto:opengeometry at yahoo.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 3:13 PM
To: Kemp Randy-W18971
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Replacing text for all files in a directory


On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:25:29PM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote:
> Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.  I
> have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I
> want to replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump
> off a cliff." This is a comic example, but I need to do something
> similar in real life.  How can I do this in Python, running on Unix? 

Yes.  In Python, you would apply
    string.replace(line, 'Have a good day', 'jump off a cliff')
to every line in the file.  If the file is small, then you can slurp the
whole file into memory, and apply 'string.replace()' only once.

But, in my opinion, this calls for shell solution:
    for i in [A-Z]; do
	sed -e "s/Have a good day/jump off a cliff/g" $i > tmp
	mv tmp $i
    done

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 15:55:13 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:55:13 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com> <9m3028025bu@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b855d84.271366254@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:21:47 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
>news:roy-1DB49F.08271523082001 at news1.panix.com...
>> "Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es> wrote:
>> > My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
>> > v[5 # 2]
>>
>> I don't see that this adds anything to the language that can't be done
>> already, other than being another way to do the same thing.
>
>Further, it's such an EASY thing to do -- the proposed
>    a[b # c]
>is EXACTLY the same as
>    a[b:b+c]
>so where's the added value to justify something as major
>as adding a new operator...?
>
I would rather have the alternative syntax
    a[b:+c]

but to anwer your question, I think Juan wanted not to
have to write a big expression twice with +c appended to
the second instance, especially if c were also a big expression.

Of course, he could write
    b = his.big.b.expression
    c = his.big.c.expression
first, and
    a[b:b+c]
as usual -- unless it was in a no-statements context where
elements of the expressions varied in value.

>I'd much rather have the modest implementation change to
>ensure that a[slice(b,b+c)] did just the same for all
>sequences -- it's a rather surprising thing that it fails!
>
Ok, out with it ;-)



From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 16:20:40 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
Message-ID: <20010808202040.31719.qmail@web10502.mail.yahoo.com>

I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
set of data.  (Forgive me if I am not using the proper
terminology or if what I mean by a term is completely
different from what the rest of you mean by the same
term.  I am still a very new newbie and am just
converting to Python after a couple of years of perl. 
I will try to clarify what I mean.)  By hierarchical,
I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
and that the parents and children should be aware of
one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
the parent should be aware of its children and
children should be aware of their parents).  By
dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
variable and will be defined at run time.  I would
prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.
 Right now, I have the following, which is a three
tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
other:

################################
cs1_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs1_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd3 = {'CLOSE2': 'RESULTS'}
cs3_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs3_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}

command_set1 = {'cmd1': cs1_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs1_cmd2}
command_set2 = {'cmd1': cs2_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs2_cmd2,
'cmd3': cs2_cmd3}
command_set3 = {'cmd1': cs3_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs3_cmd2}

test_set = {'TEST1': command_set1,'TEST2':
command_set2,'TEST3': command_set3}
#################################

which I can manipulate with much weeping gnashing of
teeth.  A couple of problems with this (other than the
fact that it is just plain hideous to look at):

1) A child doesn't really know who its parent is.
2) The data is not dynamic: it has to be built from
within the script at design time and not run time.
3) On the dynamic topic, I can't just add a child.  I
have to create kind of a reference in the parent to
another dictionary.
4) It is scattered across 11 dictionaries (even though
it has one base dictionary that acts as the root
parent).

I want to do the above more elegantly, more concisely
and less painfully.  I have read the python FAQ,
searched usenet, searched Google, scoured
www.python.org and have only come up with a few
possibilities for doing what I want to do (such as
metaclasses and acquisition and some virtual file
systems), but I am not sure that they will address the
solution for the problem that I have.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can begin to
attack my problem?  Does anyone have any ideas on
specific methodologies for dynamically named
hierarchical data?  Can anyone point me in the
direction of documentation that might aid me in my
quest?  Does anyone know of similar projects that I
may be able to look at?

Any assistance would be most appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 08:21:00 2001
From: TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com (Terry Byrne)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 05:21:00 -0700
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com> <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a@posting.google.com>

Hi, Emile, and thanks for the response. 

What I want seems like it should be simple, especially for a language
as capable as Python. Maybe the answer is some combination of Python
and batch language or something...

Right now, users on our intranet (production managers at a publishing
company) fill out an HTML form according to varying production needs.
Based on their input, an existing Python CGI script builds a DOS batch
file to run some time-consuming processes on the server. Right now,
users must use pcAnywhere "remote control" to take over the server,
start a DOS session, and run the batch file manually. I want to
eliminate that step. I've been trying to run the batch file on
submission of the HTML form, to no avail. It seems that because the
user comes in via HTTP to the CGI, the server's context is unaware of
the server's own drive structure & path environment variable. Or
something. Even in my ignorance I see that there are perfectly valid
security reasons for that.

I wanted to avoid the complications of varying drive mappings etc.
when building the command lines for the batch file, so the CGI assumes
the server's local drive structure for paths to exes and input files.
Because of this assumption, I know, the batch file must run locally. I
know a truly elegant solution would get the user's drive mapping (if
exists) to create the proper commands, or maybe it would change drive
mappings on-the-fly to a standard or something, assuming rights could
be obtained to do so from the net admin group etc., but that seems too
elaborate :-)... or maybe that would be easier than I suspect. If so,
please advise.

Now I'd like some way of running the command lines when the CGI form
is submitted, or maybe I'd first build the DOS batch file as I am
right now, then I'd call it. But everything I've tried results in an
OSError.

Right now when the users run their DOS batch file via pcAnywhere, a
Python script uses os.popen()to run the custom DOS batch commands
one-by-one. It evaluates the results returned by the production
utilities both to stdin and to the utilities' own log files, and the
script then optionally e-mails specified managers of the results of
the production processes. (I think that makes sense!) But this whole
procedure must be started manually via pcAnywhere. I'd really like to
change that.

Hope this helps. I'm definitely not proud, especially in this crowd.
Thanks!

-Terry


"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message news:<9mhsps$2a133$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>...
> There's lots of ways of doing it.  Why don't you explain a bit what you're
> after?
> 
> --
> 
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
> 
> ---------
> "Terry Byrne" <TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58 at posting.google.com...
> > All,
> >
> > I need to allow clients to run a DOS batch file from an HTML form that
> > resides on a Windows NT server. Using system(commandline) I always get
> > an OSError.
> >
> > Right now we're using pcAnywhere to log on to the server and run the
> > batch file that way. I want to make it simpler by using the HTML form.
> >
> > The batch file will always be in the same location on the server. I
> > want to avoid all drive mapping complications by just running the
> > batch file from an HTML form. Is there a way to do that, or is it
> > disallowed for security reasons or some other?
> >
> > Thanks!


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Thu Aug 16 06:50:53 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:50:53 +0200
Subject: distributing python programs to non-geeks
References: <c1eb87b.0108160130.519f68d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7BA58D.6080009@___skynamics.com.invalid>

Nivel Otri wrote:
> I've got some python and ruby scripts that some people have expressed
> an interest in being able to run, but most get scared away by having
> to go to install python/ruby, set up a directory for the scripts, etc.
>  (All are using some flavor of Windows.)
> 
> What would be ideal would be a way of generating a Windows installer
> for a python/ruby script, complete with an icon that can go on the
> desktop or in the start menu. [...]

You can create standalone Windows executables from Python scripts with

py2exe (http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/) or
Gordon McMillan's Installer (http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html)

py2exe is very easy :-)


Gerhard
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 15:09:05 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:09:05 -0500
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <15217.36433.705632.498885@beluga.mojam.com>

    Adam> Aha, another one, so far we have:

    Adam>       Emacs,
    Adam>       Vim,
    Adam>       Alpha,
    Adam>       Jed,
    Adam>       Nedit,

    Adam> that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?

Dunno.  Tell you what I'll do.  I will create a page in my Python Bits page
and add links to any text editor/Python pages that people send me.  When the
good folks at PythonLabs get a chance to rework their site, they can take
over the content and I'll just replace my page with a link to theirs.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 22 23:46:24 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 20:46:24 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> > Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> > collection
> 
> + 100% portable out of the box, even to bizarre platforms.

I don't see any conflict between portability and other GC methods not
counting those which play with the machine memory protection hardware.

> + Simple M&S is slower given Python's extremely high dynamic memory
> throughput (*everything* in Python is heap-allocated, from execution frames
> to ints, and RC is cache-friendly by nature, eager to reuse a piece of
> memory ASAP; just picture "sum += i" in a loop, while keeping
> "*everything's* heap-allocated" in mind).

Yes, simple M/S isn't appropriate except for small systems.  A
generational scheme is indicated here.  However, maybe some future
implementation can avoid doing so much heap allocation.  At that point
it should be possible to compile Python into pretty good machine code.

> + Sharing data with random C, Fortran, Java etc programs is a godawful mess
> when GC decides to move things around.  Python never moves objects, and
> that's a major blessing when integrating with foreign systems.

Yes, good point.

> > (which leaks memory if there's circular structure)
> 
> Recent Pythons collect those.

OK, that was my main concern.  I started writing an LRU cache in the
obvious way (with the entries on a circular linked list) then started
worrying about whether it would ever get GC'd without special attention.
If this is fixed I can stop worrying :).

> > instead of Lisp-style garbage collection?
> 
> Afraid that doesn't mean anything specific without reference to a specific
> Lisp implementation; you seem to have compacting M&S in mind, perhaps
> generational or perhaps not, but, regardless, the seminal role Lisp played
> in driving GC algorithms means there's virtually nothing that isn't "Lisp-
> style" for *some* value of "Lisp".

By Lisp-style GC, I mostly just mean GC that handles circular
structure properly.  At another level it means GC that doesn't require
a lot of programmer attention when writing C extensions, as ref
counting needs.  But I certainly wasn't thinking specifically of m/s.

> Cycles are irrelevant now.  While it *is* a PITA to worry about refcounts,
> it would be a bigger PITA to worry about memory moving.

This is valid.

> > Also, using a compacting GC helps localize memory references, speeding
> > up the program by improving cache performance.
> 
> If you dig for solid evidence that this is true in real programs, you may be
> surprised at how little you find.  Try this for a starting point on why
> deeper analysis suggests life is more complicated than picturing easy worst
> cases (notwithstanding that I invited you to picture one above <wink>):
> 
>     http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html

Thanks, that's an interesting paper but I don't know what to conclude
from it.  Zorn's measurements started in Berkeley in the 80's.  Back
then, a typical workstation was a 16 mhz 68000 with 80 nsec memory
access time.  These days, a typical workstation is a 1 Ghz Athlon with
50 nsec memory access time.  So today's CPU is > 100x faster (more
parallelism in addition to higher frequency) but memory is only
slightly faster.  So the cycle cost of a cache miss has gone up
tremendously--you can execute 50 or more instructions in the time it
takes to read something from DRAM on a cache miss.  This -has- to have
some effect on the cost of memory fragmentation.

> > So maybe the GC implementation should be revisited at some point.
> 
> It's been revisited several times by several people.  The only thing the
> implemented alternatives to date have consistently had in common is worse
> performance.
> 
> ain't-nothin'-obvious-about-gc-strategies-ly y'rs  - tim

That's for sure--there's a large literature of GC research that goes
back for decades.  It's not appropriate to ignore everything that's
been tried.


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Aug 28 06:19:00 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:19:00 +1000 (EST)
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
In-Reply-To: <HWOAyXAESii7EwlO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108282015180.76-100000@central>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> In article <WWVECJAoEii7Ewnx at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
> writes

{...}

> >I'm guessing this might be some difference in the way the two
> >pythons/distutils were configured.
>
>
> Further research says that wchar.h was added to ISO C90 with amendment 1.
>
> Also it seems that
> http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/archive/2001/freebsd-i18n/20010520.freebsd-i18n.html
> mentions wchar.h a lot beginning 2001/may so perhaps Python-2.1.1 package
> has the requirement for wchar.h built in because freeBSD recently added
> wchar.h.
>
> Looking in the two config.h fiels, I see one with #define HAVE_WCHAR_H 1
> and one without.

If the binary Python package you've installed was built on a newer FreeBSD
(which seems likely from what I've gleaned from your posts) this is not
surprising, as the configure script would have found the errant header on
the newer system.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 13 14:29:10 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:29:10 -0500
Subject: immutable count and index
In-Reply-To: <9l92p3013dj@drn.newsguy.com>
References: <mailman.997657944.32355.python-list@python.org>
        <9l92p3013dj@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <15224.7286.356556.907151@beluga.mojam.com>

    Grant> But maybe lists and tuples are so different under-the-hood that
    Grant> it would be pure duplication (as I assume is currently the case
    Grant> for count/index on lists/strings.)

There really isn't much different under-the-hood.  Tuples can make
immutability assumptions in some places that lists can't, but most of the
code where they have common functionality they could probably be very much
alike.  The speed-tradeoff macros for setting and getting stuff are
identical.

    /* Macro, trading safety for speed */
    #define PyTuple_GET_ITEM(op, i) (((PyTupleObject *)(op))->ob_item[i])
    #define PyTuple_GET_SIZE(op)    (((PyTupleObject *)(op))->ob_size)

    /* Macro, *only* to be used to fill in brand new tuples */
    #define PyTuple_SET_ITEM(op, i, v) (((PyTupleObject *)(op))->ob_item[i] = v)

    ...

    /* Macro, trading safety for speed */
    #define PyList_GET_ITEM(op, i) (((PyListObject *)(op))->ob_item[i])
    #define PyList_SET_ITEM(op, i, v) (((PyListObject *)(op))->ob_item[i] = (v))
    #define PyList_GET_SIZE(op)    (((PyListObject *)(op))->ob_size)

Note the comment for PyTuple_SET_ITEM.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 16 11:37:04 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:37:04 -0500
Subject: Python Path Blues
Message-ID: <tnnq6o9t2t565a@corp.supernews.com>

I am running into a very frustrating problem.
I have Python 2.1 (NOT 2.1.1) on Win NT.  I recently installed DCOracle2 for
WIN NT to connect to an ORacle 8 database on a Solaris machine.
I ran the install for DCOracle2.  It copied the correct pyd (dco2.pyd) into
the directory c:\python\Dco2\DCOracle2
So, in this directory I have now:  DCOracle2.py, DCOracle2.pyc, and dco2.pyd

Then I added this path into the string of library Python paths ( I am using
Python 2.1 because the binary of DCOracle2 comes readily compiled for Python
2.1 and will not work with Python 2.1.1).

When I type
import DCOracle2
in the interactive shell, I get the error message:

>>> import DCOracle2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in ?
    import DCOracle2
ImportError: No module named DCOracle2

What gives?  Why am I getting an ImportError if DCOracle2 is in the lib
path?
Maan




From fb at nospam.ultranet.com  Thu Aug  9 15:08:02 2001
From: fb at nospam.ultranet.com (F Basegmez)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:08:02 -0400
Subject: Attribute overloading and structures in classes?
Message-ID: <9kumtb$15l$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Howdy,

I have;

class System:
    def __init__(self):
        self.cg = Cg()
        self.weight = 0

class Cg:
    def __init__(self, x = 0, y = 0, z = 0):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y
        self.z = z
    def __repr__(self):
        return str(self.x) + ", " + str(self.y) + ", " + str(self.z)

User can use this like;

>>> block=System()
>>> block.cg.x=5
>>> block.cg
5, 0, 0

Q1
Now, how can I let the user of my System class set the cg values as either

block.cg.x=5
block.cg.y=6
block.cg.z=7.5

or

block.cg = [5, 6, 7.5]  # so that block.cg[0] = block.cg.x

Q2
Is there a way to specify the cg.x, cg.y and cg.z without having to create a
Cg class first? Something similar to this:

class System:
    def __init__(self):
        self.cg.x = 0
        self.cg.y = 0
        self.cg.z = 0
        self.weight = 0






From wware at world.std.com  Sun Aug  5 21:08:02 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:08:02 GMT
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <mailman.997031828.13957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GHMGHF.9Ft@world.std.com>

Roman Suzi (rnd at onego.ru) wrote:
> To be good for AI, language must have logic
> programming support. (I wonder if Guido thinks
> in this direction 'cause this requires adding
> new keywords ;-)

It sounds like you just want to add a Prolog-esque
inference engine. Certainly you'd be concerned about
performance; I think inference engines need to try lots
of different possibilities to see which match the
specified conditions. This cries out not for a change
in Python, but a C module. Perhaps it could be cobbled
together out of some existing Prolog implementation.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Aug 16 17:18:11 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:18:11 -0500
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7C21AA.50405@wi.mit.edu> <9lh7oa$h82$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7C3893.2040708@wi.mit.edu>

Donn Cave wrote:

>Quoth Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu>:
>...
>| Also be aware that whenever you use python's thread package with a
>| purely python written program you will see slowdowns in the workers you
>| are running. We have seen up to 30% speed loss between a threaded
>| process and an unthreaded process. If speed is an issue you can set up
>| the worker to run in a seperate python process and use pipes/sockets for
>| update and control events. Python makes this fairly easy to do, although
>| whenever you touch pipes/sockets you are getting into the realm of
>| techno-weenie. Let me know if you need advice on this, we are trying to
>| release some code to facilitate linux and windows out of process
>| asynchrounous communication, but don't hold your breath.
>
>Lose 30%??!!  Where does it go, do you have any idea?
>
>	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
>
Python has a global lock during threading so that only one python 
instruction can be running at a time.  If you GUI runs a lot of python 
calls and your threaded process runs a lot of python calls. 
 Bingo---you're hosed.

Fortunately running components in other processes is relatively easy. 
 There are a lot of remote proxies running around out there.  The main 
problem is asynchronous I/O because not only do you have to connect to 
the operating systems I/O you have to work into the GUI systems I/O and 
event loop.  Gtk/Tk/Qt and wxPython allow for fairly easy hooks into 
their event loop so you can poll sockets/pipes with a simple callback or 
timer mechanism(which of course is GUI specific).  Even COM and CORBA 
have to deal with this reality.  If you care to dig deeper you can check 
out the execellent fnorb (python corba orb) documentation for working 
with GUI event loops.

This kind of thing really gets hard for novices incredibly quickly, it 
quite literally is a big old brick wall for a lot of people.  Hopefully 
we'll be able to fix it one day :)

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 00:52:29 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:52:29 -0400
Subject: Hacking in python
References: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B518D.20172F7C@engcorp.com>

Patio87 wrote:
> 
> Does any 1 know any thing about hacking in python

There are no Python hackers (using your definition) in 
this newsgroup.  I guess you'll have to look elsewhere.


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Aug 25 01:50:50 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:50:50 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
References: <mailman.998706141.30883.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <toef3be6ln5ob8@news.supernews.com>

"Dave Cinege" <dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998706141.30883.python-list at python.org...
> keywords: modify argv change process listing argv[0] ps output
>
> This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
> As you might have guessed this allows one to change to absolute
> argv values of the python process itself. (It is of great wonder
> to me why this functionality is not already available...)

Why do you want to do this? Aren't there enough ways of
confusing yourself without adding a method of lying to yourself
about your input parameters?

John Roth
>




From cstrickland at surry.net  Thu Aug 23 22:11:22 2001
From: cstrickland at surry.net (Charles W. Strickland)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:11:22 GMT
Subject: telephone response systems
Message-ID: <3b85b763.1043866@nntp.surry.net>

How anyone done anything with python or perl with telephone response
systems?  I'd like to develop a linux based telephone system.


From deblnonospammy at theworld.com  Tue Aug 21 20:21:22 2001
From: deblnonospammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:21:22 GMT
Subject: Python use with browsers?
Message-ID: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com>

Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?  I
assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is some
sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute Python?

I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java, because of
the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could be
used directly.

Thanks in advance.

David Lees


From arunaaruna at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  3 15:07:57 2001
From: arunaaruna at hotmail.com (Aruna)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 12:07:57 -0700
Subject: Zero division error!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000@seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu> <oCga7.75798$Cy.10897029@news1.rdc1.az.home.com> <e56d8da7.0108021621.67556a14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <51465237.0108031107.4eb15cb6@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  I guess,yo were missing the 'Float' while declaring the 'zeros'. Check out.

Aruna Kinjarapu.
625 Brister, #2,
Memphis, Tennessee.

prem at engr.uky.edu (Prem Rachakonda) wrote in message news:<e56d8da7.0108021621.67556a14 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
>    That was a perfect guess. I intialized d with zeros(). Initially I
> didn't use 'Float'. But now even when I use Float it doesn't work. I
> think, I have a bug in my code..and my not be in Python...Let me
> check..
> 
> Thanks,
> Prem.
> "Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote in message news:<oCga7.75798$Cy.10897029 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com>...
> > "Prem Rachakonda" <prem at engr.uky.edu> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000 at seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu...
> > > Hi,
> > >   I am writing a script for 'cubic spline interpolation' and when there is
> > > a float value = 0.004, it is rounded off to zero and I am getting a Zero
> > > Division error. Is it a python bug?
> > >
> > > Prem.
> > >
> > > x=array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
> > > 2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104])
> > > ..
> > > ..
> > > ..
> > > d[0]=x[1]-x[0]
> > > c[1]=(y[1]-y[0])/d[0]
> > >
> > > Here d[0] is 0.004(equally spaced points) and is being considered as 0 and
> > > I am getting this error.
> > 
> > 
> > You haven't posted enough code to be sure, but I'm going to make some
> > guesses.
> > 
> > (1) array is Numeric.array
> > (2) d is created in a way similar to zeros([N])
> > 
> > If that's the case, what happening is that d is an array of ints, not floats
> > (int is the default). That means that when attributes are set using floats,
> > they are silently truncated to ints in the array. This is somewhat of a
> > misfeature of Numeric in my opinion, but I don't think it's actually a bug.
> > Assuming that your are actually using zeros to create d, you could use
> > Numeric.zeros([N], Numeric.Float) instead.
> > 
> > Then again, this is all a guess.
> > 
> > -tim


From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Wed Aug  8 12:07:45 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:07:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: emacs python mode
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a> <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2ouh.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:50:03 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth 
<adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote:
>
>(note:  I had another reason for sending the last one, I wanted to know
>what else Emacs in Python mode could do.)

Well it *did* sound like a wild troll.

Emacs python mode brings you an easy way to access the classes and methods in 
your file through a dedicated menu. You get easy ways of indenting/de-intenting
blocks of codes, same thing for commenting out or un commenting blocks of code.
You can also work on the interpreter or debugger within emacs to run/debug the 
code you're editing.

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From Weet.Vanniks at el_simpatico.be  Wed Aug 29 03:23:15 2001
From: Weet.Vanniks at el_simpatico.be (Weet Vanniks)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:23:15 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be>

Jeroen,

I find it a very strange request from you, an allegedly dutch person, to ask
about a book in dutch. All technical books in dutch that I have read so far just
plain suck (read incomprehensible, just double dutch to me). Anyway, all dutch
people are supposed to speak english.
My little piece of advice : go for the tutorial by Guido, very well-written and
self-contained.

Weet

jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> Hello people
>
> I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language for
> me to use. is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?
> I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
> like it. If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a python
> sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")
> Is python hard to learn? And is there a dutch person in this group? If there
> is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.
> Could you please answer my questions? Thanks.
>
> Bye,
>
>         Jeroen



From relfx at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 21 15:38:47 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:38:47 -0400
Subject: Python & IRC : Is it a fantasy or reality 
Message-ID: <rCyg7.3606$zk4.319925@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

I'm not sure how many of you saw someo f my earlier posts a couple of weeks
ago about wanting to make a irc client with python. I have taken a look at a
few sites and tried ot find as much info on asynchronous modules and
asynchat but the documentation is that good.

    As for other windows irc clients it doesn't seem theywant to have
anything to do with it. Is python fading away or something? Why is it so
hard to get some help on making a simple irc client for windows 98 that i
can use to make scripts using python's programming language. Everywhere i
turn I see people talking about MIRC and it's unique scripting language. I
find python very intersting and I would like to have a irc client for
windows 98-2000 so that I can progress more efficiently.

   If there are any people out there that are willing to help me and give
something to the open source world please let me read your views on this. So
that I may know if all this is possible and how long would it take for this
idea of mines to become a reality.







From cstein at giftcertificates.com  Fri Aug  3 12:52:08 2001
From: cstein at giftcertificates.com (Casey Stein)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 09:52:08 -0700
Subject: Precision Issue
Message-ID: <81b5a7b9.0108030852.1234fa4d@posting.google.com>

So I'm going through the Python tutorial and I get to the part on
lists, queues and such and the following happens:

>>> a = [66.6, 333, 333, 1, 1234.5]
>>> print a.count(333), a.count(66.6), a.count('x')
2 1 0
>>> a.insert(2, -1)
>>> a.append(333)
>>> a
[66.599999999999994, 333, -1, 333, 1, 1234.5, 333]
>>> print a
[66.599999999999994, 333, -1, 333, 1, 1234.5, 333]
>>> print a.count(66.6)
1
>>>

Why is it converting my 66.6 to 66.599999999999994?


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 14:28:52 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ref Count Checking
In-Reply-To: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251426090.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> As part of an extension debugging exercise I printed refcounts
> relating to the structure
> ('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
> either created directly in Python or by my extension.
>
>
> An earlier pass revealed values of decrementing values
> for the None output from the extension (it was stealing a None).
> After Correcting I'm still getting differences.
> In particular the strings az1, ay1, b1, c1, d1, e1 seem to have counts from the
> extension which are 3 lower than from the python version.
>
> Is there any way to deduce what the python count should be?
> I'm assuming that a string like az1 is reasonably unique so there
> shouldn't be any question of a library reference.

Your extension is probably still using a borrowed reference and not
incrementing its refcount. Have a look at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/api.html and note which functions return
borrowed references and which return new references.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug  6 11:05:17 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:05:17 -0500
Subject: Templating and syntactic sugar
In-Reply-To: <pgatmt0078nid15dm4gndhf7ug6fmpjofj@4ax.com>
References: <pgatmt0078nid15dm4gndhf7ug6fmpjofj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15214.45613.764891.141161@beluga.mojam.com>

    Tom> You can get and set variables in the template with tpl.var(), but I
    Tom> want to be able to do something like tpl.var.xyzzy = "Hello,
    Tom> world!", just because I like that syntax, but still have this
    Tom> actually make a method call.  I'm pretty sure this is possible in
    Tom> python (with operator overloading?), can anyone tell me how?

Check up on __getattr__ and __setattr__.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Thu Aug 16 16:52:08 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:52:08 +0300
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <mailman.997918964.7616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7C3278.DE07054C@iit.demokritos.gr>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> 

> The bottom line is that you should rarely use the "is" operator except
> when testing if an object is None (there is only one None object in
> Python).
> 

Halo Brian,

So is it safe to do?
if type(a) is type(b): blah blah

If it is, doesn't this mean that the type builtin always returns the same (pre
allocated) object for each type?

I would like also to thank you as everybody else who posted a response to my
somewhat silly (newbie) question.



From camara at home.com  Wed Aug 15 17:43:19 2001
From: camara at home.com (John M. Camara)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 14:43:19 -0700
Subject: Unable to import dll extension that relies on a second dll
References: <9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58@posting.google.com> <9ldb8801jhq@enews3.newsguy.com> <9eb7f931.0108150448.2f6da101@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9eb7f931.0108151343.476dfebf@posting.google.com>

camara at home.com (John M. Camara) wrote in message news:<9eb7f931.0108150448.2f6da101 at posting.google.com>...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9ldb8801jhq at enews3.newsguy.com>...
> > "John M. Camara" <camara at home.com> wrote in message
> > news:9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58 at posting.google.com...
> > > I have not been able to create a Python extension in Windows
> > > that requires a call to a function in another dll.  In the
> > > simplified example below a function called foo in extension.dll
> > > calls bar a function in supporting.dll.  I used SWIG to wrap the
> > > functions in extension.dll and compiled both dlls in Borland C++
> > > Builder 5.  When I try to import the extension I get an import
> > > error stating that the module could not be found.
> > 
> > Where do the extensions DLL's live?  Depending on your version
> > of Windows (95 and 98 go one way, NT another, 2000 yet
> > another, &c) that may be the root of things.  If they're all on
> > the PATH or system directories, then it should work on all
> > Windows versions, otherwise it gets hairy.
> > 
> > 
> > Alex
> 
> I'm using Win NT 4 and the extensions exist in /winnt/system32 directory.

I found the problem.  The supporting dll needed another dll that was
missing from my system.


From foobarickknob at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 01:36:58 2001
From: foobarickknob at yahoo.com (Scott Taylor)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:36:58 -0700
Subject: Subst being a wigger
Message-ID: <5a140c6d.0108142136.6dc1cd2f@posting.google.com>

Does anybody know why this works...

os.system('dir')

... but this doesn't? ...

os.system('subst x: c:\\winnt')

The symptoms w/ the subst line is that the subst actually takes
affect, but I get an hanging dos box laying about until I ctrl-C out
of it.  Platform is w2k.

Oh, and if anybody knows of a better way to do a subst, I'd sure like
to hear about it.

Thanx!

Scott


From t-weh at online.no  Sat Aug 18 06:47:28 2001
From: t-weh at online.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:47:28 +0200
Subject: Are There Free Webservers With Python Supported?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108172031.7f46ca16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <I5sf7.889$hc7.9291@news1.oke.nextra.no>

Not sure if this is what you mean, but :

Local webserver : If you want a local web-server, try apache with
mod_python. Zope runs fine on Win98 ( if anything does run fine on
Windows ). Medusa is a fine package in pure python. Webware, etc. Lots to
choose from.

Webservers on the net : As far as I know the only free webserver with python
installed so you can use it for cgi etc. is sourceforge.net, but that's not
a ordinary webserver, probably heaps more but not to my knowledge. If you
want to provide access to some opensource project you'd be ok though.

Hope this helps.


"Josh" <polopunk209 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0a9c74e.0108172031.7f46ca16 at posting.google.com...
> I'm running Windows 98SE, and I'm wondering if there is a free
> webserver that supports Python? I couldn't find any documentation on
> this on the webisites i visited, Tripod, Angelfire...etc. Any help?




From rnd at onego.ru  Wed Aug 15 01:54:54 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:54:54 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians
In-Reply-To: <3B79FC10.94AD2E33@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108150952470.6172-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Joal Heagney wrote:

> Lorene Brownlee wrote:
> 
> Okay, this one's dodgy, or at least off topic. Posted to a python group
> and not a single mention of python in the entire thing.

Mailman should block any mail without mentioning Python, Guido
or code without single line of Python code ;-) 
(I am not sure about usenet group though...)

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From guido at python.org  Tue Aug 14 15:06:44 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:06:44 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:32:07 EDT."
             <20010814123207.D27040@starmedia.net> 
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com>  
            <20010814123207.D27040@starmedia.net> 
Message-ID: <200108141906.f7EJ6iR11000@odiug.digicool.com>

> From: Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com>

> Another question is: will you be able to inherit from C and get the same
> behavior as the current situation where ideally this would work:
> 
> class meta:
>     def __init__(self, klass, bases, dict):
>         pass
> 
> class foo:
>     __metaclass__ = meta
> print 'foo is', foo  # foo *is* an meta instance
> 
> class bar(foo): pass # dies here

This dies because your meta is a classic class.  If you make it a
new-style class by inheriting from object, it can be made to work by
defining a __new__ method on the meta class.

But normally you would inherit meta from type, wouldn't you?

> print 'bar is', bar  # would be lovely if bar was an instance of meta

Yes, this works.

Here's a small example that works in current CVS:

    class meta(object):
	def __new__(cls, name, bases, dict):
	    return object.__new__(cls)
	def __init__(self, name, bases, dict):
	    self.name, self.bases, self.dict = name, bases, dict
	def __repr__(self):
	    return "<meta instance %s>" % self.name

    class foo:
	__metaclass__ = meta

    print foo

    class bar(foo):
	pass

    print bar

> In this case, foo and bar are type objects, not instances of meta,
> which is what I'm looking to do.  Is this part of what you were saying
> about it not working yet, or has my head exploded without my knowledge
> and I'm overlooking the obvious?

Neither.  What's not working yet is that in certain cases overriding
__new__ causes an infinite loop, and I need to fix it. :-(

> I guess what I'm really trying to say is that for a library I
> currently have using 2.1, currently the user can be totally ignorant
> of the fact that they are not defining regular classes, but
> metaclasses, and ideally, I'd like to keep it that way.

If you can smuggle a "__metaclass__ = type" into their namespace, you
can get the same effect.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From pmoscatt at bigpond.net.au  Wed Aug 15 06:03:39 2001
From: pmoscatt at bigpond.net.au (Peter Moscatt)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:03:39 GMT
Subject: Python Interface To PostgreSQL ??
Message-ID: <%Nre7.120101$Xr6.642305@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

I am trying to install PostgreSQL (onto my LINUX system) and have python 
interface to the databases I create with it.

I haven't been able to compile with the python interface (./configure 
--with-python).

I think this fails because I installed Python 2.1 as an RPM therefore the 
Makefile is not present.

It mentioned that I need to make the python interface manually.

Can someone help out here in a guide to how I achieve this ?

Pete


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 16 11:43:41 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:43:41 -0500
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tnnqj7t6979d22@corp.supernews.com>

Thank you all for your helpful responses.  It looks like we are going to go
with both Python and JSP.
Maan

"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:tnivoil464c658 at corp.supernews.com...
> Hi to the most esteemed Python People
> I work as a programmer and we are working on a web project.  I am pushing
> for Python.  The web project calls for logging into an Oracle database,
> uploading and downloading files depending on the login information,
> processing uploaded files, and a host of million other things.  I had
> already done the basic functionality all in CGI using Python.  Someone
else
> here is calling for the use of JSP.  So, the question being asked here:
Why
> do I want to use Python and NOT JSP?  I simply can not just say:  Well, it
> is an issue of bias, and I know Python and like it, and can stand neither
> JAVA, nor JSP although I do not know anything about JSP.
> Did anyone here deal with JSP in addition to Python?  If yes, how could
you
> convince a skeptical management to use Python and not JSP?
> We use an IPlanet web server running on Sun Solaris by the way.
> Thanks for any information,
> Maan
>
>




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sat Aug 11 18:33:30 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 18:33:30 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import generators
In-Reply-To: <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org>
	<cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <oqbslm4479.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Guido van Rossum]

> If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we can
> do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against breaking
> code this way, but maybe it's OK.  At least 'yield' is not a silent break.

My voice is surely not representative, but it is a voice nevertheless.
When the direction is good, I prefer to see things moving forward, and
would avoid `from __future__' here.  Yet, I also understand the concerns you
have about not disturbing other Python users.  My opinion is that globally
replacing `yield' by something else, using about any editor, is an easy
challenge.  It could be advised somewhere in the transition documentation.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug  3 20:18:31 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:18:31 -0700
Subject: Is this the *right* way of exception handling?
References: <9kdr21$rao$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <slrn9mmffh.7h4.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <3B6B3F57.65BA307B@alcyone.com>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:

> Unfortunately, python's
> assertion mechanism is not well integrated with the exception
> mechanism, so
> assertions that should really raise a ValueError will always raise an
> AssertionError.  A possible third argument to 'assert'?

Are you suggesting some kind of difference between logic asserts (logic
faults) and data asserts (bad data, has to be handled properly)?  In
Python, the latter should definitely not be presented as asserts, but
rather as just raising some other (possibly custom) exception.  Logic
asserts mean something's broken; data asserts just means someone sent it
bad input data and need to be handled properly by the program in any
case.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The basis of optimism is sheer terror.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Wed Aug  1 11:00:29 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:00:29 -0400
Subject: os.path.commonprefix inadequacies
In-Reply-To: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLIEOPCCAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLAEPBCCAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Oops!  This function also works with strings (I think any sequence type
would do)...

commonprefix("abc","ab","abe") => "ab"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Rich Harkins
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:37 AM
> To: Python-List
> Subject: RE: os.path.commonprefix inadequacies
>
>
> Here's yet another way to do a common prefix, not sure about its
> performance
> characteristics (assuming you have lists):
>
> def commonprefix(*lists):
>     assert len(lists) > 1
>     l=zip(*lists)
>     for n in xrange(len(l)):
>         if filter(None,map(cmp,l[n][1:],l[n][0]*(len(l[n])-1))):
>             return lists[0][:n]
>     return lists[0]
>
> # Some tests
> print commonprefix(('a','b','c'),('a','b','x'),('a','b','c','y'))
> # Returns ('a','b')
> print commonprefix(('a','b'),('x'))
> # Returns ()
> print commonprefix(('x','y','z'),('x','y','z'))
> # Returns ('x','y','z')
>
> Hope this helps!
> Rich
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 11:32:11 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:32:11 -0500
Subject: Equivalent to Perl's Data::Dumper
In-Reply-To: <01081417063200.32630@phoenix>
References: <01081417063200.32630@phoenix>
Message-ID: <15225.17531.293202.242188@beluga.mojam.com>

    Heiko> I have looked through all of the Python documentation for now,
    Heiko> but I can't seen to find a module to do just this. What I'm
    Heiko> trying to do is inspect a variable at runtime. I know pickle can
    Heiko> do the job, but I can't/don't want to read the output it
    Heiko> produces. dir or inspect.getmembers won't do the job, they don't
    Heiko> run recursive (they just display the current members, nothing
    Heiko> below that). Isn't there some readymade module to recursively
    Heiko> look at a class or instance?

You might want to look at pprint module.  It's a pretty printer for
containers.  Don't know how well it will work with classes or instances, but
you can always feed it the class or instance dict.

Also, here are recursive (dirall) and non-recursive versions of dir I define
for interactive use:

    def dir(o=globals,showall=0):
        if not showall and hasattr(o, "__all__"):
            x = list(o.__all__)
            x.sort()
            return x
        from __builtin__ import dir
        return dir(o)

    def dirall(o, showall=0):
        attrs = dir(o, showall)
        if hasattr(o, "__bases__"):
            for b in o.__bases__:
                attrs.extend(dirall(b, showall))
        if hasattr(o, "__class__") and o != o.__class__:
            attrs.extend(dirall(o.__class__, showall))
        adict = {}
        for a in attrs:
            adict[a] = 1
        attrs = adict.keys()
        attrs.sort()
        return attrs

When set, the showall parameter will display all objects a module contains,
even if it defines a restrictive __all__ list.

The odd "o != o.__class__" in dirall catches some recursion in the data
structures involved in the latest ExtensionClass-based PyGtk wrappers for
Gtk+.  I don't know if that's a quirk of that implementation or is a general
property of ExtensionClass-based class hierarchies.  YMMV.

I believe the code above will work on 1.5.2 and newer versions of Python,
though I've only tested in on 1.6 and 2.x.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From schleipp at transaction.de  Wed Aug 29 04:46:26 2001
From: schleipp at transaction.de (Christian Schleippmann)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 01:46:26 -0700
Subject: programme call with popen
Message-ID: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com>

Hello everybody,
I use the popen2 function to initialize a variable with the output of
a programme. If I use the interactive mode, python seems to start
another process - it appears the programme output, which is put on
strerr.
WHY does this happen?

The variable is initialized properly, at least I can call it with the
read() method....
Here is the code:
>>>import popen2,string
>>>fin, fout = popen2.popen2("[programmecall]")
#HERE HAPPENS SOMETHING I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, python "waits"

>>>fin.read() #this works fine again

Is there a better way by using popen4? How to do that then?
Thanks
Christian


From thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com  Thu Aug  2 07:17:41 2001
From: thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:17:41 +0100
Subject: newbie 'Find File' question.
References: <9jn5kb$k16$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <3b5f3d46$0$327$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net> <9jsa66$4q2$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <3B6831A1.D84FE33E@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9kbcsn$gpf$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>

Thanks...

G. Willoughby

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B6831A1.D84FE33E at ccvcorp.com...
>
> "G. Willoughby" wrote:
>
> > very useful ta, maybe you could help me with a little problem, my code:
>
> [cleaning up indentation...]
>
> >
> > def go():
> >     status.set("Searching...")
> >
> >     if checkEntryField() == 1:
> >
> >     resultPane.delete(0, END) # Clear the results pane!
> >     searchString=str(entryField.get()) # Get search string
> >
> >     def search(of, dir, files):
> >         for file in files:
> >         if file == searchString:
> >             of.insert(END, os.path.join(dir, file))
> >
> >     driveList=string.split(win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings(),'\0')[:-1]
# Get
> > Drives
> >     for x in range(0,len(driveList)):
> >         os.path.walk(driveList[x], search, resultPane)
> >     status.set("Done")
>
> I'm guessing at the correct indentation of these last few lines.
>
> > when this script is run i get this error:
> >
> > Local name 'searchString' in 'go' shadows use of 'searchString' as
global in
> > nested scope 'search' def go()
> >
>
> What's happening, is that you have a nested function (search) that is
using a
> variable defined in its parent scope.  Python's old scoping rules don't
have the
> behavior you're looking for--it looks for a value of searchString in three
> scopes--that of search(), the global scope (module level), and builtins.
> searchString is not defined at any of those levels, but it *is* defined in
> go().  If you do indeed want to use the searchString from go() within the
nested
> function search(), then you need to use Python's *new* scoping
rules--nested
> scopes.  These rules are available starting with Python 2.1, which you
obviously
> have or you wouldn't be getting that warning.  However, these rules are
not the
> default--in order to activate them, you need the first line in your script
to
> be:
>
> from __future__ import nested_scopes
>
> Then everything should run as you intend.
> Hope that helps...
>
> Jeff Shannon
> Technician/Programmer
> Credit International
>
>




From ChrisHBarker at home.net  Tue Aug 14 00:48:46 2001
From: ChrisHBarker at home.net (Christopher Barker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:48:46 GMT
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B784B32.F35F9DF@home.net>

Robert Amesz wrote:

> > + has a nice Canvas widget
> 
> From what I've read, a Canvas is just something you can draw on. You
> can do that easily on a wxWindow by making a handler for paint-events:
> blitting images, writing text, drawing, you can do it all in such a
> handler. However, don't expect C++ speed from a Python paint-handler.

The tk Canvas is much more than a place to draw things. WX does have
fine facilities for drawing to0 a panel or scrolled window, but it is
kind of slow if you have a lot of objects to draw(100s works OK 1000s is
pretty darn pokey).

Aside from speed, there is no easy way to draw something in wx and link
events to clicking on the object you draw. You would have to do all the
hit-test code yourself. Draggin around bitmaps is a little harder as
well, but it can be done, and Robin has a nice demo of it in the
wxPython demo.
 
There is work being done on a wxCanvas, but it has not yet been wrapped
for Python, and I'm not sure it's ready to be. If it does make it   to
prime time, it looks pretty nice, and is a zoomable and scrollable
vector drawing surface: try that, TK!

All in all, I like wx a lot, although the wrappes around the C++ are a
bit thin. This is good because you can easily ttranslate the C++ docs
into Python, but the code ends up being a bit verbose, and not terribly
Pythonic. this really is a minor quibble, however.

-Chris


-- 

Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker at jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Aug  9 16:37:11 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 20:37:11 GMT
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <3B6C4108.F2D51223@engcorp.com> <jtg0b5guox.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kp4se$gsr$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n5t3n.fmo.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 7 Aug 2001 09:26:54 -0700, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>In article <jtg0b5guox.fsf at wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>,
>William Annis  <annis at biostat.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>        I was with you up to the web interface.  I don't know about
>>you, but *this* sysadmin breaks out in hives at the idea of putting
>>system control and configuration behind a web server... by definition
>>a public service.
>
>On the gut level, I kind of agree with you.  But let's walk through
>this, shall we?  What, really, is the difference between a telnet
>session and a web session?

Security:  I can install and use ssh easily.  For http, I'm not so sure.  It's
probably pretty easy if you know what you're doing, but I recall all sorts of
stuff about apache patches, httpd.conf changes, certificate authorities,
authentication realms, etc.

Complexity:  With an ssh link you can use plain text.  Over http you have to
use complicated html and use some giant bloated browser to see it.  I use
systems that have no web browser, but do have ssh.  And a web thing is going
to have some complicated nest of cgi scripts that will wind up doing the same
stuff you can do directly with a shell.

Debugging:  I hate debugging web stuff.

Speed:  Web forms are slow and clumsy.

Flexibility:  It's quite handy to write shell or python scripts to mangle and
pipe things into system configuration tools, or grab the output and pass it
somewhere else.

And most importantly, what would a web interface give you?  It just seems like
a slower, more complicated and awkward way to solve the same problems.  It's
like using a complicated remote-control robot to clean your room instead of
just walking in and picking stuff up.  Or, since this is a hypothetical
management system, using a remote control robot to manipulate a a control
panel to manipulate a herd of remote control robots to clean a bunch of rooms.


From m at moshez.org  Sat Aug  4 14:03:01 2001
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:03:01 +0300
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
In-Reply-To: <15212.2455.286369.472300@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <15212.2455.286369.472300@beluga.mojam.com>, <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
        <9k9ekl$ev$1@norfair.nerim.net>
        <3B6B3F0B.582EA80D@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E15T5lN-0006r7-00@darjeeling>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:41:27 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     Paul> I'm trying to migrate to ZPT and completely stop using DTML.
> 
> For those of us who don't follow Zope closely, what's ZPT?

Zope Page Template, a wonderful wonderful technology allowing designers
and developers to stop ripping files apart by keeping the programmability
in attributes, allowing one to have a file which renders well in Netscape
and editable with DreamWeaver while allowing the developer to embed calls
to database to populate the rows. 

If I sound like a religious fanatic, it's because that I am. For anyone
in the web development business, ZPT is a god-send.
-- 
Moshe Zadka - http://moshez.geek
(if you're not cool, http://moshez.org is still working)



From bh at intevation.de  Thu Aug 16 15:35:51 2001
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:35:51 +0200
Subject: Sketch build/install problem
References: <slrn9no539.3lu.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <6qr8ub4x2g.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> I joined the sketch mailing list yesterday and sent this -- but
> haven't seen anything from the mailing list other than the
> request for a subcribe confirmation.  
> 
> Since the sketch mailing seems to be incommunicado, I thought
> maybe somebody here might have an idea...

Well, today (16th) at least the mailing list worked.

> I just upgraded sketch to 1.6.12 (1.6.8 had been working but I

I think you mean 0.6.x, unless you've borrowed Guido's time machine :)

> broke it when I upgraded Python to 2.1).

Yes, Sketch 0.6.8 doesn't work with Python 2.1

> The configure/build/install worked without a problem, but when
> try to run sketch I get an undefined symblol error:
[...]
>    ImportError: /usr/local/bin/../lib/sketch-0.6.12/Sketch/../Lib/paxtkinter.so: undefined symbol: XDestroyWindow
[...] 
> But, paxtkinter.so doesn't pull in libX11.so.  
> 
> Any ideas what I did wrong?

It's probably a bug in Sketch's setup.py. I modified it to work with
Python 2.1 and it may well be that it doesn't work correctly on your
platform. 

In fact, looking at setup.py, I wonder why it works for me.
paxtkinter.so doesn't get linked with libX11.so even on my system, but
ldd and import find it just fine.

Here's a patch:

*** setup.py.~9~	Thu Jul  5 15:02:25 2001
--- setup.py	Thu Aug 16 21:29:09 2001
***************
*** 315,320 ****
--- 315,323 ----
          config.inc_dirs.append('-I/usr/X11/include')
          config.lib_dirs.append('-L/usr/X11/lib')
  
+     # Finally, link with the X11 libraries
+     config.libraries.append('-lX11')
+ 
  
  def configure(dirs, flags, setup):
      if not flags['sketch'].has_key('imaging-include'):



Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 10:49:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:49:30 -0500
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>
        <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
        <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <15226.35834.905706.945509@beluga.mojam.com>

    Skip> Actually, if I do it right, PEPTest2 would work more like

    Skip>     def PEPTest2():
    Skip>         m = math.sin
    Skip>         c = 100000
    Skip>         while c:
    Skip>             l = []
    Skip>             f = l.append
    Skip>             for i in range(10):
    Skip>                 f(m(i))
    Skip>             c -= 1

    Skip> That is, math.sin would get cached at the earliest point where it
    Skip> is in scope, which would be before the while loop.

After reading Alex's note on this subject I realized I may have
misinterpreted what you asked for.  While the PEP266 implementation will
work about like the manual caching case, note that it will not change
Python's semantics.  If some other routine modifies the binding for math.sin
during execution of the while loop, the PEPTest2 function will see the
change, just as it would today if you included math.sin lookups in the loop
and unlike the code above which statically binds m to the object referred to
by math.sin at the start of the function.  That's the whole idea of the
proposed TRACK_OBJECT/UNTRACK_OBJECT opcodes.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 10 09:30:05 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:30:05 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <ZhRc7.2067$rV6.191301@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
news:psoy9os5a88.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
[ ... ]
>
> But why can't Python be fast enough without resorting to extensions?
Forcing
> users to learn C in order to make their Python code fast detracts from
> Python's advantage as a simple, easy-to-use language.
>
[ ... ]
Because it takes a lot of work to write good optimizing compilers, whether
targeted at real hardware or a virtual machine. People who can do this are
few and far between, and the rest of us just bleat about speed instead of
learning the necessary techniques and rolling our sleeves up.

if-wishes-were-horses-then-beggars-would-ride-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 14:56:35 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:56:35 +0200
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2741804.hk5qWAgFLt@lunix.schabi.de>

Hello,

Carl Fink <carlf at panix.com> schrub:

> I asked about this on the debian-user mailing list and got no answers
> at all, not a good sign, but:  has anyone installed Python 2.1 or
> later on a Potato system?  There are no .deb files that I can locate
> to do so.

According to the bug database for the python 2 packages, there are 
Python 2.1 packages being created. But I think they'll only be for 
woody - but chances are that the woody sources (apt-get source) compile 
with potato.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 15:51:05 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:51:05 -0400
Subject: [ANN] PyDO 1.0 Python Data Objects
Message-ID: <20010814155105.N27040@starmedia.net>

What is PyDO?

PyDO is a Object-Relational database access tool. Unlike many other
O-R database access tools, PyDO:

    * easy to wrap your head around
    * doesn't constrain your schema to what it thinks databases should
      look like
    * if you need/want to override the way it does it's work, it's not
      a major surgical effort
    * has tools that will, given a database connection (for Oracle and
      PostgreSQL anyway) can do a lot of the work for you in writing
      your data classes.
    * like any good tool, makes the easy stuff a no-brainer and makes
      the harder things easier too.
    * works with more than one database (currently Oracle, PostgreSQL
      and MySQL, but others are definitely possible)
    * is easy to figure out how it works and when it does things so
      that you won't piss off your DB admin

Go to the PyDO page for more details:
    http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/pydo.html
Download it here:
    http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/skunkweb/PyDO-1.0.tar.gz

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca  Mon Aug  6 23:43:25 2001
From: paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca (Paul Johnston)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:43:25 -0400
Subject: Compiling Python2.2a1 & losing command-line features
Message-ID: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com>

I have used binary and source-compiled versions of Python.  In every case 
where I use the latter my Python environment loses all its normal niceties 
like backspace, line-repeat, etc.  Is there a setting or configuration item 
I need to set to get these back?

Thanks for any help!


From mcalla at home.com  Fri Aug 17 17:21:32 2001
From: mcalla at home.com (Mike Callahan)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:21:32 GMT
Subject: Question about Tkinter message boxes
Message-ID: <wVff7.81044$k7.19991986@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>

When I run this code:

import tkMessageBox as tkM
tkM.showerror('Error', 'Test messgage')

I get two windows. A blank Tk box and the error box. When I click on OK in
the error box, the blank Tk box remains. How do I keep the blank Tk box from
appearing?

Mike Callahan





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sun Aug 26 03:51:48 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:51:48 +0200
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:22:03 BST."
             <9m6k8p$21f$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> 
Message-ID: <m15auhw-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:

> tanzer at swing.co.at wrote:
> >    IO_Exception_Map  = { 2 : NoSuchFile
> >                        , ...
> >                        , 13 : PermissionDenied
> >                        , ...
> >                        , 20 : NotADirectory
> >                        }
> 
> This isn't correct.  You can't use 2 and expect that to be
> the right number.  You need to use errno.ENOENT instead of 2 since
> it may be different on different machines.  Quoting from
> errnomodule.c

Excuse my being lazy and just playing in the interpreter to see a few
errorcodes. For the purpose of a quick example that should be good
enough.

For production code you are right, of course.

> Also, looking through the Python code, there's a lot of places which
> put the errno into the exception, not just IOError
> 
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(BsddbError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(CdError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(DbmError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(ImgfileError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(LinuxAudioError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_IOError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_RuntimeError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_ValueError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(PySocket_Error);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(ResourceError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(SelectError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(SunAudioError);
> PyErr_SetFromErrno(mmap_module_error);
> PyErr_SetFromErrnoWithFilename(LinuxAudioError,
> PyErr_SetFromErrnoWithFilename(SunAudioError,
> 
> so quite a bit of the code may need to be changed.

I didn't actually propose any changes to be done (although such
changes would improve Python, IMHO). This topic come up when somebody
asked whether to use exceptions or error codes...

I don't know what PyErr_SetFromErrno does but it might be enough to
change this one function/macro to switch to an exception hierarchy
without needing to change all the callers of PyErr_SetFromErrno.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Thu Aug 30 14:38:25 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 18:38:25 GMT
Subject: python/qt
References: <p6rj7.26299$6x5.5693111@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <9mm171$e80$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

LeoDeBeo <leodebeo at hotmail.com> wrote:
> using qt with python, i have following problem

> i imported qt  'from qt import *'   (every qt-class i use works)
> but when i want to set the alignment of a label, the constants aren't 
> recognized.
> label= QLabel(parent)
> label.setText(string)
> label.setAlignment (AlignCenter)

> complaint: NameError: global name 'AlignCenter' is not defined


That's because the Qt global constants are in the Qt 'class' - use
Qt.AlignCenter.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From nas at python.ca  Thu Aug  2 14:32:36 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:32:36 -0700
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
In-Reply-To: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>; from carlf@panix.com on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 05:06:10PM +0000
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20010802113236.A17147@glacier.fnational.com>

Carl Fink wrote:
> I asked about this on the debian-user mailing list and got no answers
> at all, not a good sign, but:  has anyone installed Python 2.1 or
> later on a Potato system?  There are no .deb files that I can locate
> to do so.

Python installs nicely into /usr/local on Debian machines.  One thing to
watch out for is that some Debian scripts use "/usr/bin/env python" and
expect to get the Debian packaged version of Python.  You can either
remove the /usr/local/bin/python link and use python2.1 or make sure
that /usr/local/bin/python is not first in the path when those
scripts are run.

  Neil



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 02:01:02 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:01:02 -0500
Subject: Large pages using Zope
In-Reply-To: <yXG97.5335$em.180937@juliett.dax.net>
References: <9k766t$dc0$04$1@news.t-online.com>
        <yXG97.5335$em.180937@juliett.dax.net>
Message-ID: <15207.39710.491013.975759@beluga.mojam.com>

    Trygve> 6. ... In fact, Zope doesn't even store new content in new
    Trygve>    files. Everything is managed through the web object system
    Trygve>    and stored inside the object database.

This can be both a convenience and a burden.  Having everything in one place
makes it difficult to do things like incremental backups or extract a single
slice of a website.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From fractal97 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 11 14:07:44 2001
From: fractal97 at hotmail.com (vin)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:07:44 GMT
Subject: server question
References: <oG1d7.8274$vp.1265600@news02.optonline.net> <3B74B1B2.47807E5C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Qved7.14857$vp.2244576@news02.optonline.net>

Ok pasting of the error was wrong I did it last night while being very 
tired.

here is the code again

import socket
 
def start_server(PORT):
    HOST = ''                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    s.bind((HOST, PORT))
    s.listen(1)
    conn, addr = s.accept()
    print 'Connected by', addr
    while 1:
        data = conn.recv(1024)
        if not data : break
        conn.send(eval(data))
    conn.close()

now I telnet to the machine and type 5*6 and then 'enter' as follows

$ telnet 127.0.0.1 8484
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to 127.0.0.1.
Escape character is '^]'.
5*6 [enter]

and server responds ....

>>> import server
>>> server.start_server(8484)
Connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1032)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "server.py", line 13, in start_server
    conn.send(eval(data))
  File "<string>", line 1
    5*6
       ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Now I know that conn.recv() should return a string, but it seems that I 
can't evaluate that string with eval.  You can print 'data' but not do 
eval(data) it always reports syntax error.  Why?

Thanks for the references I'll look into it. 

Vin





From barry at zope.com  Thu Aug  2 16:39:36 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:39:36 -0400
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
	<20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
	<etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
	<cpg0bay3l5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
	<3B697CF3.876B9F0A@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <15209.47752.609652.77850@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "M" == Michael  <michael at stroeder.com> writes:

    M> Kind of Deja vu, isn't it?

    M> Try to get the domain python.org from them.

Please folks, don't worry about it.  The situation is being resolved
and we should have some good news within a day or two.

-Barry



From Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au  Fri Aug 17 21:27:10 2001
From: Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au (Bart Bartels)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:27:10 +1000
Subject: Facilities Management software
Message-ID: <3B7DC46E.B422C7E8@vu.edu.au>

G'Day

I work for a University in its Facilities Management department.  I am
looking for any Facilities Management software projects that I may be
able to test or help develop.  The only restrictions I have is that we
are MS Windows based and the $ cost has to be 0.

I believe that browser based is the logical way to go as 99% of people
have access to this sort of software and they can usually drive it
reasonably well.

I have posted an amended version of this on alt.comp.opensource and
alt.building.engineering.  I believe though, that a python and/or jython
based project has most potential.  My level of expertise in this
language is very limited but my enthusiasm is way up there.  Hopefully
finding an appropriate project will allow me to develop the expertise.

Can anyone point me toward any such projects/sites?

Thanks

Bart



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 21 19:24:18 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:24:18 +1000
Subject: Python users
In-Reply-To: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010821230759Z-52111@emi1.EMI>
References: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010821230759Z-52111@emi1.EMI>
Message-ID: <01082209241807.02447@ike>

On Wednesday 22 August 2001 09:07, Kim C Tran wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm really new to python language, where is the best place to learn ??
>  and where can I find the latest of Pythonwin for python2.1 ??

http://www.python.org/  for the answers to both of these questions, and most 
of the ones you'll come up with once they're satisfied :)


   Richard



From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 12 23:20:10 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:20:10 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3b774788.692839911@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:35:16 GMT, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

>Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:
>
>> Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
>> remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?
>
>Yes, I'd like to remove this.  See my previous post in this thread for
>more of an explanation of the problem.  But I haven't decided yet!
>This thread will help me figure out how big of a deal it will be.
>
Assigning to an instance's __class__ attribute strikes me as a kind of in-place
coercion of the instance to a new type/class (hopefully compatible ;-).

Could it be handled as a standard coercion (which might fail safely on its own
terms) and assignment, optimized down to rebinding __class__ when some kind of
fast check revealed that that was safe?

I guess it comes down to what assumptions you want to be able to preserve (and/or
provide checks and alternate handling for) through read/compile/load/execute phases
and their permutations -- but whatever is allowed, the result must be blamable
on the programmer ;-)



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 10:49:22 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:49:22 -0400
Subject: Multithreading support for BaseHTTPServer
References: <3b8b7daf.699296734@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <b8Oi7.166729$rV6.8419592@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8b7daf.699296734 at news.isar.de...
> I'm using a BaseHTTPServer to serve up data dynamically. Some pages
> take time to process, so I would like to make a multithread server
> where serving up one page doesn't block any other.
>
> Looking into SocketServer.py, I found that both ThreadingTCPServer and
> ForkingTCPServer are available. However, when changing
>
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):
>
> to
>
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer):
>
> in BaseHTTPServer, I get an error
>
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 262, in handle
>     self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
>   File "d:\python21\lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
>     new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'
>
> Any ideas? Any simple method of multithreading BaseHTTPServer?

import SocketServer
import BaseHTTPServer
import CGIHTTPServer

class ThreadingCGIServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,
                   BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
    pass

import sys

server = ThreadingCGIServer(('', 8080), CGIHTTPServer.CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
#
try:
    while 1:
        sys.stdout.flush()
        server.handle_request()
except KeyboardInterrupt:
    print "Finished"

Mixin classes are usually designed to slot right in to an existing
framework. In this particular case, ThreadingMixin needs to be used with
classes which have a certain server structure. It provides methods for your
class which would otherwise be inherited from the later superclasses in the
inheritance list.

If BaseHTTPServer has everything you need, the above solution should be all
you require. If you aren't bothered about interrupting the server you could
just call serve_forever(). I remember when I frist came across the
*HTTPServer classes they seemed a lot more complex than they really are!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 21 19:11:33 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:11:33 +1000
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
In-Reply-To: <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <01082209113306.02447@ike>

On Monday 20 August 2001 23:33, phil hunt wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:01:45 +0200, Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> 
wrote:
> >phil hunt wrote:
> >> I haven't looked into S/MIME. Is there a web page with a good summary of
> >> it?
> >
> >http://www.rsasecurity.com/standards/smime/
> >http://www.imc.org/ietf-smime/index.html
>
> From reading links from this stuff, I get the impression that to get
> an S/MIME public/private keypair, you have to buy one from a
> Certification Authority (who also certify your identity, presumably).
> Is this correct? Or can I just create my own keys like I can with GnuPG
> or PGP?

Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA. You just 
have to provide them with some personal information. If you're dedicated, you 
can also get in on their web of trust. That allows you to have more personal 
information present in the cert (like your real name).


   Richard



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug  4 11:42:43 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:42:43 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
In-Reply-To: <E15T338-0001lh-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108041938020.12092-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 zooko at zooko.com wrote:

>
>[[[As an aside on the topic of bug-tracking systems:
>
>   I submitted this on sourceforge, and discovered that it escapes HTML tags so
>   that they just show up in your text.  So this is the worst of both worlds:
>   your formatting options are even more limited than simple ASCII e-mail bug
>   reports would be, and you can't use your familiar e-mail UI, you have to use
>   this slow, unstable, inconvenient, ugly HTML UI.  I suppose the one
>   advantage of an HTML-based bug tracking system like that is that people who
>   can't/won't submit e-mail bug reports might submit HTML bug reports, but
>   I have to suggest that those are often the least valuable bug reports...]]]
>
>
>After spending many hours tracking down weird race conditions in Mojo
>Nation[1], I've finally realized that the problem is that we assumed that
>`time.time()' would return non-decreasing answers. In fact, successive calls to
>`time.time()' can return a *smaller* number than previous calls, as
>demonstrated by this test (Python 2.0 on debian woody):
>
>import time
>
>x = 0
>while 1:
>    ox = x
>    x = time.time()
>    if x < ox:
>        print "this is WRONG: ox: %s, x: %s\n" % (ox, x,)
>    else:
>        print ".",

\me Staring at the dots on the screen

Sorry, I missed your point. Maybe you have some superscalar SMP'uter
which predicts steps to far? ;-)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 04, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Experience: a name everyone gives to his mistakes." _/




From bobh at hslda.org  Mon Aug  6 08:41:16 2001
From: bobh at hslda.org (Robert)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 05:41:16 -0700
Subject: PyQt for Windows Status
References: <mailman.997094949.3162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4a249347.0108060441.18511a14@posting.google.com>

Phil Thompson <phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.997094949.3162.python-list at python.org>...
> As people have been asking, this is the current status of PyQt with the Qt 
> non-commercial version.
> 
> I hope to release PyQt v2.5 next weekend. This will include a pre-compiled 
> Windows package for Qt non-commercial. The issues are all resolved - the 
> changes will be committed to CVS later today.
> 
> Phil


THANK YOU!

I wanted to start using it on Windows prior to the PyQT book coming
out so I would be familiar it a little bit.

Bob


From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Sun Aug 19 17:02:38 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 21:02:38 GMT
Subject: exec* exiting?
Message-ID: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Why does the interpreter exit when I use the os.execl() function? Even when
the command works correctly, the interpreter exits. Am I supposed to run
this function is a seperate thread?  Thats lame, if so.

what I am doing:
Reading shell commands from a secure connection to a remote machine. I
thought executing the commands would be a piece of cheese, but this exiting
thing is not what I expected.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Neil Macneale

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From syring at email.com  Wed Aug 15 15:02:54 2001
From: syring at email.com (Karl M. Syring)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:02:54 +0200
Subject: [Q] Python and math
References: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <9lejv5$8mlbn$1@ID-7529.news.dfncis.de>

"Young-Jin Lee" <ylee12 at uiuc.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4qye7.6344$A3.45832 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> Hi, I'm wondering if there's a open source python code for solving ODE
> (ordinary differential equations)?
> I want to convert my Java application into Python, but I'm not sure if
there
> is a ODE solver written and available in Python.

You have posted the same question on 01/07/22 and I answered:

Depends on what you mean with "in Python", but Pearu Petersons site
(http://cens.ioc.ee/~pearu/python/) should be a good start.

What is wrong with this?

Karl M. Syring




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 11:40:56 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:40:56 +0200
Subject: unix 'mtio' mag tape interface?
References: <3B8CFC6C.CE2B1F39@ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9mj2eb01kut@enews1.newsguy.com>

"George Young" <gry at ll.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:3B8CFC6C.CE2B1F39 at ll.mit.edu...
    ...
> Failing anything code to steal, what's the cleanest way to take a C
> header file
> for the mtio ioctl's and produce a neat python interface?  Performance
> is completely
> irrelevant, just ease of development, and clarity and portability of the
> result.

SWIG might help you here -- see www.swig.org.


Alex





From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Fri Aug  3 19:52:38 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:52:38 GMT
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org> <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com> <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90F3127C4569Crcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Rich Holm wrote:

> In article <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list at python.org>, 
> paulp at ActiveState.com says...
>> 
>>  * C++ was promoted by Microsoft as the standard way to do GUIs on
>> Windows
>> 
> 
> I don't want to start a flame fest, but...

How about a little spelling flame? 

 
> Where did you hear this?  It was Borland that popularized the C++
> on Windows paradym.

"Paradym"? That isn't spelt that way. It's actually "pair 'o dimes". If 
somebody offers his/her humble opinion it's 'his/her two cents worth'. 
But sometimes opnions get inflated to incredible proportions, and then 
they becomes two dimes worth, or a "pair 'o dimes".

There actually is an older spelling of the word, as we can see in the 
title "Paradigm Lost", by Milton, the epic poem about mankind's 
struggle to come to terms with Good, Evil, and The Loss Of A Small 
Amount Of Change. 


> Microsoft was WAS behind the curve at the time. The Borland class
> libraries were/are vastly superior to MFC.  Too bad they lost out
> in the end.

Yes, it's immortalized in Edward Lear's famous poem "The OWL and the 
pussycat".


Robert Amesz (taking a break from seriousness)


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 05:40:18 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:40:18 +0100
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
References: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <N1vyqvACWhi7EwXq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>Whilst trying to recompile an extension with freeBSD 4.2 + Python-2.1.1
>I'm getting the following error.
>
>/usr/local/include/python2.1/unicodeobject.h:91: wchar.h: No such file
>or directory
>
>
>This extension compiled OK with Python-2.1. So must I upgrade my OS or
>is this a buglet of some kind?

This is a bit stranger than I thought. On one system running freebsd-
4.1.1-STABLE I have to build my own Python-2.1.1 as it's a colo machine.
On that system I can build the extension fine. Certainly doesn't seem to
have a wchar.h though.

On the problem system freebsd-4.2-STABLE with the recently upgraded
binary packaged Python-2.1.1 I am unable to build the package.
-- 
Robin Becker


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 21 21:36:05 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:36:05 -0400
Subject: Issue with function keyword defaults
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108051307240.31133-100000@bcryachts.atsat.com>
Message-ID: <qYDg7.100090$rV6.4889978@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Morten W. Petersen" <morten at thingamy.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0108051307240.31133-100000 at bcryachts.atsat.com...
> Hi,
>
> after trying to set an empty dictionary as a default keyword arguments'
> value, this happened (same thing happened on 2.0.1 BTW):
>
> morten at debian:~$ python
> Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219
> (prerelease)] on linux2 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch
> Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> import time
> >>> def test(r={}):
> ...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
> ...     return r
> ...
> >>> test()
> {997015577.922: 997015577.922}
> >>> test()
> {997015578.849: 997015578.849, 997015577.922: 997015577.922}
> >>> test()
> {997015579.446: 997015579.446, 997015578.849: 997015578.849,
>  997015577.922: 997015577.922
>
> I would assume that r would be re-initialized on every call, but that's
> not happening;  could anyone explain this behaviour?
>

Yes. The default value is bound to the argument name at the time the def
statement is processed. Because it is a mutable value, you can (and do)
change the dictionary's contents, but the argument name is still bound to
the changed dictionary and so you see successive additions when you call
test() with no arguments.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/








From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 01:03:04 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
In-Reply-To: <283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108250058460.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 24 Aug 2001, Kevin Dahlhausen wrote:

> I'm getting ready to experiment with Webware.  I'd like to use a
> simple database or somewhat efficient persistant store as I'll be
> using the CGI-one shot version of webware and don't want to also have
> to load a complete database into memory.  So, mysql, postgress, and
> such are too heavy. I'll be lucky to find a way to run Webware on an
> isp's site anyway.  Are there any alternative database libraries for
> python out there?  SQL's ok, python objects to disk in some rational
> way would work too, if I could load them without pulling every object
> into memory first.  Thanks

I don't know if a module exists for it, but you could use some sort of shared
memory for what you want.

Also, I'm curious as to why you say that you can't use a database server. You
mention "loading a complete database into memory". That's what the database
server is for. It's probably faster than using DBM or files on-disk. Please
explain what you mean.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sat Aug  4 18:36:16 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:36:16 -0700
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c11d35$e0456140$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

Browse the www.python.org site for a few hours.

Here's some intros:
http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html

From: "Michael Briel" <kruge at gmx.de>


> Hi there!
>
> I'm generally interested in Python - can anybode point me to either a book
> or a page that teaches you from the beginning how to use this language? I
> generally know how to program computers, but I haven't done it in ages, so
> it better be "for Dummies"... ;o)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
> <<If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing is to
keep
> the students from just trying to yodel right off. You see, we build to
> that.>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 17:51:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:51:44 +0200
Subject: generating SQL - problem
References: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <9kscfi011va@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Lee" <lee.reilly at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B71AA2D.E9D219B7 at ntlworld.com...
> I wonder if someone could offer me a little advice. I have a large
> (155KB) text file holding MP3 data in the format:
>
> Filename with path   ; Title    ; Artistd
> d:\\SRS\\Breed.mp3      ; Breed         ; Snake River Conspiracy
>
> I want to parse this file and create a single SQL insert statement, but

I wouldn't be surprised if your SQL engine failed to accept a 200K
statement, but that's another issue.  Also, the string you're building
is not a single insert statement... it's a lot of them separated by
semicolons (you COULD build a single insert if you wanted, since
an insert can insert many records in a table).

> I am having a few problems. I have the following script, which works
> fine (may not be pretty, but it works ;-)
>
> #
>
,---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--+
>
> # | createMP3SQL.py
> # |
> # | import string
> # |
> # | fileobject=open('newdata.txt', 'r')  # open the playlist
> # | line = fileobject.readline()          # read the first line
> # |
> # | FullSQL = ''  # the final query string
> # | end = 'false' # test condition - true when end of file is reached
> # | while (end!='true'):
> # |   try:
> # |     line = fileobject.readline()
> # |     trackdata=string.split(line, ";")
> # |     file=string.rstrip(trackdata[0])
> # |     title=string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[1]))
> # |     artist=string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[2]))
> # |     SQL = 'insert into MP3s values (\'' + file + '\', \'' + title +
> '\', \''
> # |     + artist + '\')'
> # |     FullSQL = FullSQL + SQL + ";"
> # |   except Exception:
> # |     end='true'

It's VERY inefficient to build up a huge string by concatenating
many small ones, one by one.  Here's a far faster way:

result = []
for line in fileobject.readlines():
    trackdata = line.split(',')
    file, title, artist = map(string.strip, trackdata[:3])
    result.append("insert into MP3 values('%s','%s','%s');"%
        (file, title, artist))
fullSQL = ''.join(result)

It still has issues (if you have any artist named "O'Malley" you're
going to be in SQL syntax trouble:-) but I think it's not too bad
now.

> When I run this script is takes ~5 secs to process, and when I type in

I bet my version's faster...?

> 'FullSQL' to display the text (the SQL string) in IDLE it halts
> completely.

I think that's the problem -- _IDLE_ may well have limits to
the length of strings it can display.  Try showing len(fullSQL)
first, then fullSQL[-99:] to see just the last 99 characters, &c.


Alex





From jknapka at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 12:17:50 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph A. Knapka)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:17:50 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3B700BA9.F9C624F6@raqia.com>
Message-ID: <3B7014AD.8A302821@earthlink.net>

David Lees wrote:
> 
> If your list is called
 'x' then len(x) will give you the number of
> sublists at the top level, which what you are asking for.

No, what he's asking for is: for a list N elements long,
N nested for loops over the elements of N (which are
themselves lists). Easy to do recursively:

# List we want combos of is the second argument.
def all_postfixes_of(ListSoFar,MoreLists,Result):
    if MoreLists == []:
        Result.append(ListSoFar)
        return
    next_list = MoreLists[0]
    for item in next_list:
        nextSoFar = ListSoFar[:]
        nextSoFar.append(item)
        all_postfixes_of(nextSoFar,MoreLists[1:],Result)

Result = []
all_postfixes_of([],[[1,2,3],[10,20],[4,5,6,7]],Result)
print Result

-- Joe
 
> david lees
> 
> Mark Robinson wrote:
> >
> > I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;))
> > trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure
> > that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial
> > problem.
> >
> > I have a nested list structure of the following format:
> > [[2, 3, 4, 5],
> >   [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
> >   [6, 2, 7, 4]
> >   ....
> >   ....
> > ]
> >
> > I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from
> > each nested list
> >
> > i.e
> > [2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
> > [2, 4, 2, ..., ...]
> >
> > If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code
> > it as a series of nested for loops:
> >
> > i.e
> >
> > for i in list[0]:
> >         for j in list[1]:
> >                 for k in list[2]:
> >                                 comb = [i, j, k]
> >
> > but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the
> > outermost list is going to be variable in length.
> >
> > If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and
> > give you all the profit ;)
> >
> > Blobby

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 16:04:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:04:42 -0400
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
In-Reply-To: <3b86a05d.354015106@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENLLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Emile van Sebille]
> exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})

Ouch!  Emile, stop doing that.  Use

    exec a.func_code in {'b': 4}

[Bengt Richter]
> That seems to work, but where is that form of exec statement documented?

It isn't, and is therefore undefined.  Before Python 1.0, "exec" was a
builtin function rather than a statement.  The ancient function form is
still accepted for backward compatibility, but that's been a secret <wink>
for nearly 8 years.




From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Aug  8 03:06:42 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 00:06:42 -0700
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <840bdd8f.0108072306.3a89ecd0@posting.google.com>

Hans Nowak <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message news:<mailman.997193173.24832.python-list at python.org>...

> >===== Original Message From Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> =====

> >I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;))

> >trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure

> >that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial

> >problem.

> >

> >I have a nested list structure of the following format:

> >[[2, 3, 4, 5],

> >  [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],

> >  [6, 2, 7, 4]


Here's a quick, two-liner in Python using functional style:

def permute(a):
    if len(a) <= 1: return [[x] for x in a[0]]
    return [[x] + y for x in a[0] for y in permute(a[1:])]


From gezea at princeton.edu  Sun Aug 12 20:09:01 2001
From: gezea at princeton.edu (Eduardo Zea)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:09:01 -0400
Subject: newbie question: using Python to coordinate C++ program and use gnuplot
Message-ID: <3B771A9C.3BB8317@princeton.edu>

Hello all,

Can someone suggest a good place to look for info on achieving the
following kind of tasks:

1) I have a C++ program that reads a file with parameters (say
parameters.txt) and runs a simulation, then produces an output file (say
output.txt). I want to write a Python program that loops over the
parameter values and on each loop does this:

1. Updates parameters.txt
2. Runs the C++ program with the updated file
3. Renames the output of the C++ program according to the simulation
number, e.g. output1.txt

2) A python program that opens gnuplot in a new terminal, and sends to
it a comand like "plot output.txt". And re-issues this command each time
it updates output.txt, so that gnuplot displays the data as it is being
produced by the program.

I've surfed the www.python.org for hours but can't quite find something
like this.  I don't want a gunplot extension for python, just somehow
pipe a file to gnuplot while the program is running.

Thanks indeed,

Eduardo Zea
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
Princeton University



From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Fri Aug 24 08:40:53 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:40:53 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <7xbsl69d4z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>; from phr-n2001@nightsong.com on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:37:48PM -0700
References: <mailman.998584063.22360.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl69d4z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20010824084053.F930@naxos.starmedia.net>

On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:37:48PM -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
> This sounds pretty interesting.  How does it compare to Mason?

Mason and SkunkWeb compare rather well with each other, as they do tend 
to attack the web serving problem in similar ways.

 * Mason and SkunkWeb have a similar approach to their templating languages,
   but I don't think you can reasonably extent Mason's whereby SkunkWeb's
   templating language was designed to be extendable.

 * Mason and SkunkWeb both have HTML and data components.

 * Mason and SkunkWeb both have a Request object (though SkunkWeb calls
   it CONNECTION).

 * Mason uses Perl, SkunkWeb uses Python.

 * Mason runs in-process with Apache (under mod_perl), SkunkWeb is
   it's own daemon (Apache talks to the daemon either by mod_skunkweb
   or by a CGI) and if you like, can serve HTTP itself directly.
   Mason's approach can easily use more memory and database resources
   that the standalone daemon model if you are talking to slow web
   connections (which you generally are) since the time it takes to
   send the page is much more than it takes to render the page.  In
   this case, you have a bunch of processes with Mason in memory and
   database connections open that are sitting idle waiting for the
   client to get the data, whereby with SkunkWeb, as soon as Apache
   gets the response back from SkunkWeb, the SkunkWeb daemon can start
   handling another request while the Apache process goes about
   sending the page back to the slow client.  As an example, with
   SkunkWeb, you may have 100 Apache processes (not even necessarily
   on the same machine mind you) using only maybe 30 SkunkWeb
   processes.  The other thing, since Apache's process pool grows and
   shrinks over time, you a) have less control over memory
   utilization, and b) you tend to reconnect to the database more
   frequently.

 * It doesn't appear that you can make custom url schemes with Mason
   without writing an Apache module to do it.  In SkunkWeb, you can
   write a Service which does it with little trouble.  As an example,
   for my current employer, we have a url translation scheme which
   translates urls to and from Spanish and Portugese.

 * Internationalization.  Mason appears not to have any builtin
   internationalization features.  SkunkWeb has message catalogs.

 * Caching.  Mason caches component output to DBM whereby SkunkWeb
   caches to disk files.  SkunkWeb's cache can be shared between
   machines as well as managed with filesystem tools.  SkunkWeb's
   caching interface is also a lot easier to use.

 * Caching again.  Since you can't get at the compiled representation
   of Perl code, you can't cache the compiled forms of things in
   Mason.  In SkunkWeb, the templating language is compiled down to
   Python bytecode and cached to disk.  Compiled forms of Python
   components and message catalogs are also cached to disk.  The
   compile cache can also be additionaly stored in memory (as a
   read-through, write-through cache).

Hope this helps,

Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Aug  2 10:40:16 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 10:40:16 -0400
Subject: How to define a GLOBAL Variable ?
In-Reply-To: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au>
References: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <oqk80msey7.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Peter Moscatt]

> If I wish to define a variable that I want to become global to ALL classes
> within a .py file - how is this best achieved ?

Hell, Peter.

It's easy (like most things in Python!).  Just define your class global
variable, using the class name to the left of a dot.  For example:

        >>> class Factory:
        ...	def printer(self):
        ...		print self.value
        ... 
        >>> a = Factory()
        >>> b = Factory()
        >>> Factory.value = 3.1415926
        >>> a.printer()
        3.1415926
        >>> b.printer()
        3.1415926

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Aug 23 21:20:01 2001
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 01:20:01 GMT
Subject: Need Some WinDoze Help
Message-ID: <3B85AA48.5543D9D3@tundraware.com>

I know Unix much better than Win32, so I need a little help with the following
please:

1) How do I go about finding out which shortcut key combinations are
   currently assigned to which programs/arguments?

2) How do I "hook" a particular keystroke combination?  I want to be
   able to load a program and then toggle it from visible to invisible
   using the keystroke combo of choice.

TIA,
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com


From bww00 at amdahl.com  Fri Aug 10 12:47:41 2001
From: bww00 at amdahl.com (Bryan Webb)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 16:47:41 GMT
Subject: extract info from pdf doc,PDF to XML, HTML
Message-ID: <9l137d$3b1@dispatch.concentric.net>

HI,
    I need to build an index of several pdf docs. I think that the best way
would be to extract some info from the pdf docs and build an html index
page.What is the best way to scan thru the pdf docs and find to find the
info. Is there a way to convert the pdf docs to xml or html and then scan
them.

Thanks for all the help

Bryan Webb




From carlf at panix.com  Thu Aug  2 21:37:59 2001
From: carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 01:37:59 GMT
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com> <el7ck9.4ek.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrn9mk03n.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>

In article <el7ck9.4ek.ln at 127.0.0.1>, Radovan Garabik wrote:
  
>  are you *sure* ? I see no reason why would dpkg or apt (both written in C)
>  require python

Not directly, but the preinstall and postinstall scripts in the
archives are (I've read) Python scripts.

> My advice is to try Activestate python.

I've just installed it.   My thanks.
-- 
Carl Fink		carlf at dm.net


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  1 19:02:35 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 19:02:35 -0400
Subject: OT: Map generation/plotting
Message-ID: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

This is mildly off-topic, except to the extent that I want to use
Python in the application.

Does anyone have experience with or pointers to libraries or utilities
that would simplify the job of displaying maps and translating
locations (aka lat/long) to the map for highlighting?  Think along the
lines of a network status display where maps of portions of the world
(US, Canada, Europe, etc..) were display along with indicators for
currently active locations.

I've found a few spots around with some searching (located a zip code
to lat/long database, and the Parc map generator which I may want to
use to generate GIF maps with known lat/long boundaries), but I'm
wondering if there's anything available that might already have
covered more of the standard mapping activities.

Thanks.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 10:33:25 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:33:25 +0200
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9m34eb029s8@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Russell Turpin" <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a12e538.0108230607.30481024 at posting.google.com...
    ...
>     class MyInt(type(0)):
>         pass
>
>     myInt = MyInt()
>     myInt = 5                     # Will this work?

Sure it will work: it re-binds name myInt to something
different just before, exactly as it always did.  WHATEVER
myInt was before the
    myInt = 5
has absolutely NO relevance.


> Now I type "myInt" into the interpreter. Does it print out:
>
>     5

Yes.

> Or does it print:
>
>     <instance of MyInt>

Of course not.  Just like:

class Whatever(anybase): pass
x = Whatever()
x = "nah, better be a string"

Now printing x will print
    nah, better be a string
of course.  Name x has been re-bound.


> Still-on-cold-med'ly yrs,
> Russell

Must be a pretty bad cold, Russell, or very interesting
medicine indeed:-).


Alex





From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug  1 13:40:37 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 19:40:37 +0200
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9k9ekl$ev$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Zope is not Evil neither the ultimate solution.

We use Zope for content management solutions and it fits (nearly) perfectly
with our needs.
It's a good development system for those who want do simple things. On the
other hand, it drives to headaches for some problems I can manage easily
with some cgi.
I have learned essential of python in less than 2 days when I worked nearly
one month with Zope to have the enlightenment (going beyond basic DTML
obects and folders, really understanding Zope acquisition).
There are still lots of things I don't understand in Zope after 4 months.
I still can't understand how to debug DTML.

What's missing:

- The ability to mix easily Python and DTML in one object like PHP or JSP
(actually you must make a python method when 2 lines or more are required).
- A real IDE on an heavy client (big applet ?) with a REAL text editor.
Heavy working sessions on ZMI.
- An easier Security manager. The Security tab of objects offer a messy list
of permission, and the association of permission with applicable type of
objects is not obvious.
- A real and easy user session manager.
- Less "heavy" constructs for basic stuffs. In example, you create a local
variable in DTML object with <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('myvar', myvalue)"> and
of course, putting others than string or numeric constants in "myvalue" is
something not trivial.
- REAL python scripts to avoid a messy Extensions folder. Actually, you
can't use essential packages like "re" to control form's fields, and you
can't create classes or functions in these scripts.
- A console ZODB management tool.
- and above all, a REAL documentation for those who are not already Zope
aware. In example, I found the way to pass an argument to a DTML method in
an "How-To" when this essential information should be in a guide.

Hopefully, we got in France an excellent book by Pierre-Julien Grizel since
first week of July that helped a lot.

Anyway there is no better open source solution than Zope for content
management oriented sites.

I'm actually trying to understand the CMF to make a workflow/document
management solution for a customer and I still can't see where to start.

"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> a ?crit dans le message news:
9k78ar$anv$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
> Hi all,
>
> due to popular demand, I've reinstated my "Zope Is Evil", a.k.a.
> "Zope as a particularly frustrating section of adventure", page at
>
> http://zope-is-evil-666.idyll.org/
>
> Enjoy!
>
> cheers,
> --titus
>
> PS if you can't take a joke, or, on the other hand, think it's completely
a
> joke, this page is not for you.
>
> --
> Titus Brown, titus at caltech.edu




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 21:40:04 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:40:04 -0400
Subject: Hacking in python
References: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com> <3B7B518D.20172F7C@engcorp.com> <5870735.CxCBeP46Va@lunix.schabi.de> <3B7BBD2C.7E83B4CF@engcorp.com> <3B7BD794.1010603@___skynamics.com.invalid>
Message-ID: <3B7C75F4.9EEA0B08@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Markus Schaber wrote:
> >>Assuming "in" means "using python", and "hacking" means "doing illegal
> >>things" (which is not the original and intended meaning of this term)
> >>then I hope there are none.
> >
> > Those were the OP's definitions, and I agree with you.
> > I was trying gently to dissuade him from bothering...
> > we don't need that kind of participation "in Python". :)
> 
> In fact I didn't see the OP provide any definitions ;-) But the style of
> the posting and the sender's domain would suggest he meant cracking.

I didn't see any either.  That doesn't mean I was wrong. :)

-Peter


From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Wed Aug 22 07:17:13 2001
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:17:13 +0200
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
References: <mailman.998474253.20685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m04bq$bjn72$1@fu-berlin.de>

Simon Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:

>I believe that ActivePython *does* include IDLE and Tkinter these days,
>though older releases didn't.

I am sure that ActivePython *does* include IDLE and Tkinter these days,
though older releases didn't. :-)

When you accept the default-installation, you'll find IDLE in:
C:\Python21\Tools\idle

Matthias





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Aug 28 15:30:01 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:30:01 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999025123.7905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZiSi7.53292$c8.23376846@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999025123.7905.python-list at python.org...
> [Rainer Deyke, on '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)' as a way to get 2 digits after
>  the decimal point]
> > That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
> >
> > c = (a * 100) / b
> > s = '%03d' % c
> > file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
>
> Rainer, your loathing of fp is fine as a personal choice, but let's not
> poison our youth without stronger cause than this <wink>.  My bet is the
> poster would rather, e.g., see '0.67' than '0.66' given a=2 and b=3.  If
> you're going to fake fp by hand, then you're responsible for faking all of
> it, incl. sensible rounding.

c = (((a * 200) / b) + 1) / 2
s = '%03d' % c
file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From patio87 at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 23:24:28 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 03:24:28 GMT
Subject: Explain modules to me PLEASE
Message-ID: <20010815232428.01517.00000560@mb-cb.aol.com>

Can some one explain to a very new newbie how to use modules?


From sa at bayt.net  Tue Aug  7 06:15:23 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 03:15:23 -0700
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108070215.4f42cdeb@posting.google.com>

"Greg Landrum" <gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<9knqsc$drr$1 at slb5.atl.mindspring.net>...

> While I agree that the extending/embedding docs aren't necessarily as user
> friendly as they could be, I would contend that they aren't really directed
> at newbies.  Extending/embedding is an advanced topic.  This isn't to say
> that you shouldn't be doing it, but you definitely should expect it to be
> more challenging than using Python itself.

True. But I was surprised how easy it actually is once you figure out
that the distutils step. IMHO the elegance and ease of "python
setup.py build" for supported compilers makes this kosher territory
for newbies. I only wish it was emphasized more.

> You are making things a lot harder on yourself than they need to be.  You're
> using a beta of a fragment of a build environment and then trying to apply
> documentation which was written for people using the full environment.  If
> you don't want to pay for your compiler, look into the Borland product,
> which I know has been used to build python extensions.  I remember seeing at
> least one how-to for this as well.

Thanks for the tip on Borland. Would follow it if I didn't finally
manage to successfully compile using the .NET SDK.
 
> > Again, my main source of confusion was due to the documentation with
> > its intermezzos, dearth of clear examples, and its essential
> > assumption that the reader is already a proficient c coder and not a
> > newbie (graduating to c extensions).
> 
> It's assuming that you are a newbie to writing extensions.  It certainly
> isn't trying to teach you C.  Interlanguage stuff is always harder than
> writing in a single language.  Probably the best first C project is
> something other than writing an extension module.

Just bought the Kernighan and Ritchie "The C Programming Language"
with the express purpose of getting comfy with C syntax. But I'm still
intent (now that I've successfully compiled a minimal extension) on
building python objects in C... I mean what's the point if I can't use
them in my favorite lingo?

> > It further assumes you are using
> > the gui of visual studio and not the compiler directly via command
> > line.
> 
> This is partially true, and with a reason.  The standard build environment
> under Windows is Visual Studio.  So the docs are written for the standard
> env.

Correct. But in the SDK, one is also using exactly the same compilers
as the 'standard' GUI environment.
 
> Python is easy, extension modules are not.

That's the fun part-ly-y'rs,

Shakeeb


From kmmcdi at zwallet.com  Sat Aug 18 00:31:38 2001
From: kmmcdi at zwallet.com (kmmcdi at zwallet.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 04:31:38 GMT
Subject: Nouveau!!!
Message-ID: <Kcmf7.20778$Ii6.489548@wagner.videotron.net>

http://www.radiovie.qc.ca/



From owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu  Wed Aug 29 11:53:56 2001
From: owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:53:56 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be> <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9mj36l$1bim$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314 at pollux.casema.net>,
 "jeroen paul goudsmit" <diedanootdie at danoot.com> wrote:

>so if i got it right, python is easier then vb. Only one  thing is not easy.
>You can't just put  a control on a form. But there are special thingies in
>python who can.

What is not easy is building simple GUIs with a GUI builder (paint an 
interface, drag this control there, hook it up). Some of the GUI tool 
kits may come with a good interface builder, in which case this comment 
is outdated.

However, all the GUI tool kits allow you to build windows and forms by 
hand. That is easy to do for simple interfaces, but can get a bit 
tedious for complex interfaces.

>And i've got one more question. What's the limit of python. What can you not
>make in it. Vb stops somewere, c++ stops later. Weere stops python?
>Thank you for your fast reactions.

Things not to worry about:

Large programs are not a problem (aside from some minor weaknesses in 
Python's object model). It scales well, unlike what I've heard of Visual 
Basic.

Python is higher level than C/C++. The language is more expressive and 
offers fewer pitfalls. Hence it is easier to write reliable code in 
Python, which can be a life saver for large projects and programmer 
productivity in general. (Most languages do better than C/C++ in this 
regard because of C/C++'s reliance on pointers and manual memory 
management, and because of C++'s dreadful complexity.)

Things to worry about:

Python, like most high-level languages, is slower than C at certain 
tasks. If you can isolate a few simple subroutines that need to run 
faster you can try coding them in C and call them from Python. I think 
you will find Python fast enough for most real-world tasks on modern 
computers. As somebody else pointed out, "fast enough" is a moving 
target, and one that more and more favors high-level languages. The 
realm of problems that require C or hand-tuned assembly code is 
mercifullly shrinking every year.

Most operatings systems provide low level APIs in C/C++. Hence it will 
be easier to write a device drivers in C/C++. However, you *can* connect 
C/C++ code to Python.

-- Russell


From timr at probo.com  Fri Aug 24 00:16:41 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:16:41 -0700
Subject: LaTeX class howto.cls?
Message-ID: <c5lbot0ui71f3p720kersloi23cba546ml@4ax.com>

I recently fetched the mimelib Python module.  I went to print out the
documentation, and decided the LaTeX version would be the most convenient
way.  However, the doc uses the "howto.cls" LaTeX class.  I cannot find
this class.  Doing a web search proved difficult, because both "howto" and
"cls" are very common words.

Can anybody offer me a pointer?
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From rossi at earthling.net  Tue Aug 21 08:42:06 2001
From: rossi at earthling.net (Thorsten Roskowetz)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:42:06 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b260$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lt52501g6c@enews4.newsguy.com> <9lt8n7$bau$05$1@news.t-online.com> <9ltdmh01pbb@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9ltktr$1cq$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

> Just as long as you _do_ it deliberately out of
> callousness, rather than being unaware of the issues...

Believe it or not, this has nothing to do with
feeling no sympathy with handicaped persons.  Having
worked with and met many people with disabilities
of various degrees, I learned that there is no need
to be _that_ sensitive about using wrong words.

But this is getting extremely off-topic.

Cheers,

Thorsten




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Fri Aug  3 10:22:16 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:22:16 GMT
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
References: <mailman.996817505.6289.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ssya7.78137$Cy.11439637@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in message>

[Much cool generator stuff deleted]

# This is MUCH nicer than using os.path.walk() with a callback!
>
> ##  print the first 20 gif files I can find in your cwd...
> for f in Count(Test( Files('.'), isGif ), 20 ): print f

Very cool!

Although I do think it would be easier to read if the order of the test and
the generator was reversed:

for f in Count(20, Test(isGif,  Files('.'))): print f

I may just have a weak mind, but on the first version, I lost track of who
the 20 belonged to by the time I got to the end.

-tim




From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug 22 19:55:28 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:55:28 GMT
Subject: Am lost in ObjetLand... (BaseHTTPServer class hierarchy)
References: <Xns9105B9AA19A20PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <QDXg7.126344$EP6.34901106@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Fred Pacquier" <fredp at mygale.org.nospam> wrote in message
news:Xns9105B9AA19A20PaCmAnRDLM at 161.48.128.20...
>
> Another newbie question...
>
> I was playing with BaseHTTPServer.py and got stumped with a
(seemingly)
> simple question :
>
> The module defines these classes :
>
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):
>  (...)
>
> class BaseHTTPRequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
>   (...)
>     def date_time_string(self):
>         (...)
>   (...)
>
> then a function that serves as "main" :
>
> def test(HandlerClass = BaseHTTPRequestHandler,
>          ServerClass = ):
>
>     server_address = ('', 8000)
>     httpd = ServerClass(server_address, HandlerClass)
>     httpd.serve_forever()
>
>
> The question is : can I use the date_time_string() method of
> BaseHTTPRequestHandler inside the 'test' function ? If so, how ? At
first I
> thought the 'httpd' instance of HTTPServer should know about that
method
> somehow, but now I'm not so sure :)

You can create your own instance of BaseHTTPRequestHandler in the test
function and then call that method on it, but it will not be the same
instance as the one used by ServerClass.  Take a look at
HTTPServer.__init__ to see what it does with the Handler Class.  Then
search for "date_time_string" to see if it ever calls that method.

Terry J. Reedy





From emile at fenx.com  Thu Aug 30 23:02:51 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:02:51 -0700
Subject: Newbie needs Help(sorry)
References: <20010830223410.13049.00000310@mb-bg.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9mmv1e$38ogr$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

On the first part, one way is:

import socket
 socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())

On the second part, if you're looking for help cracking systems, you won't
get it here.  Otherwise, explain what you're after.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Patio87" <patio87 at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010830223410.13049.00000310 at mb-bg.aol.com...
> I was wondering how I can scan my computer for my IP address in python
> If someone could tell me how to do that it would be very appreciated and
im
> just 14 and still learning the languge so be easy please.
>
>  I was also wondering how people make all those programs that scan
computers
> for information and stuff. Because I cant find anything like that I dont
know
> where to lear to do that stuff?
>
> any advice is apreciated thanks



From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Wed Aug 22 23:55:07 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:55:07 +1000
Subject: NetUserGetInfo function problem
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010823035507Z-54356@emi1.EMI>

Hi,

I got problem to understanding the function NetUserGetInfo, it's 
return list of items like name, password, last_logoff  .......

For the values of last_logoff  return 923461755 , what is it means ?
How can I get the date of user who last log on ?

Thanks,




From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Mon Aug 13 11:29:41 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:29:41 -0700
Subject: dynamic-on-demand classes Re: Copy constructors
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130048330.4209-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997702279.9169.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v4sfnt8vcdbor8dtar6r44k8n4u7d1r1if@4ax.com>

Would it make any sense for dynamic classes to be a subclass
of some new kind of Object, e.g. a class of DynamicObjectType?
Ordinary classes, as subclasses of Object, would be assumed to
be static.

This would be like making tuples a root type, with lists a subclass
of tuple -- they inherit the functionality of tuples, plus add mutability
and a host of other things.  

In this sense classes would come in two variaties, immutable (default)
and mutable (different type of class).

When you want a dynamic class, you would subclass DynaObject or 
something like that, plus have other parents if you needed them.

Kirby



From altis at semi-retired.com  Tue Aug 14 14:55:20 2001
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:55:20 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B7961E3.B62804C3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>
Message-ID: <Wtee7.1486$E84.197474@news.uswest.net>

"Alexander V. Voinov" <avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru> wrote in message
news:3B7961E3.B62804C3 at quasar.ipa.nw.ru...
> Hi All,
>
> Robert Amesz wrote:
>
> > Russell E. Owen wrote:
> >
> > > They both work, so I think you'll do fine either way.
> > >
> > > Here are some considerations. I have used Tk much more than Wx, so
> > > have much less to say about Wx. Contributions would be most
> > > welcome.
> > >
> > > Tk:
> > > + runs on more different platforms (e.g. Mac) than Wx and is more
> > > mature
> >
> > I don't know all that much about Tkinter, but from what I've seen
> > Tkinter programs are somewhat smaller than their wxPython counterparts.
> > However, it seems that from wxPython you have more control over some
> > things.
>
> In general wxPython provides a rather thin if at all layer over the
> original C++ functionality, with few exceptions (like Python applets in
the
> html view widget) which may not be in the everyday use by everybody.
> Closely following the lines of the underlying toolkit is good for some
> users but is bad for the others. Anyway everybody has a choice.

PythonCard provides a layer over wxPython specifically so that the user
(programmer) doesn't have to see or deal with C++ or wxPython issues. If you
want really small programs, try PythonCard where the GUI component
descriptions are broken out into resource files to avoid mixing code with
widget creation and even the event binding is handled automatically for you,
which makes for really small and easy to read programs. If you need to, you
can even fall back and mix in plain wxPython code when the PythonCard
framework doesn't provide the functionality you want.

ka




From thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com  Tue Aug  7 13:47:06 2001
From: thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:47:06 +0100
Subject: Tkinter, Images on buttons question???
Message-ID: <9kp9jg$kek$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>

Hi,
    I was wondering has anybody had any experience putting an image onto a
Tkinter button. the manual says:

[snip]
image=<image>    The image to display in the widget. If specified, this
takes precedence over the text and bitmap options.
[snip]

is this a string? or some other format i'm missing. i try this:

Button(frame, image="D:\\Backup\\Python
Programs\\Shrubbery\\images\\Image.gif")

but it complains the image can not be found, any ideas???

G. Willoughby




From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Fri Aug 17 08:51:00 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:51:00 +0200
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com> <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <lm4qntk0qlf6v8gr6hfjgec4rr340emt6k@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:32:46 +0200, Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com>
wrote:

>Paul Moore wrote:
>>>   import win32com.client
>>>
>>>   class wexEvents:
>>>       def OnTick(self, Remaining, WakeUp):
>>>           print "Tick...", Remaining
>>>           return -1
>>>
>>>   wex = win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("WshToolbox.WScriptEx",
>>>                                            wexEvents)
>>>
>>>   wex.Sleep(10000,1000)
>>>
>>>But this doesn't seem to work! 
>
>It should :(  The Excel etc demos all work fine with very similar 
>constructs.  You could try:
>
>    return 1==1
>
>which due to an implementation detail will ensure that a VT_BOOL is 
>returned - however, this should not be necessary.

Nope, that din't fix it. Looks like it might be a bug in the component. But as
it works fine from VBScript and Perl (JavaScript can't handle ByRef
parameters, so I can't try that), I'm not sure how much chance I have of
getting the developer to care... :-(

>So no real clue I am afraid :(  If I could repro the error, I could 
>probably determine the problem.

I could send you the WScriptEx component. But it's executable-only, so you
can't see how the callback is implemented :-(

>>> (And, BTW, if I hit Ctrl-C, I get an error
>>>"Unhandled exception detected before entering Python." - shouldn't I >> get a KeybordInterrupt error?)
>
>Well, the Ctrl+C key is being hit _before_ Python code is entered.  In 
>this case we possibly do _not_ want Python to handle the exception - for 
>all we know, the object itself has handled the Ctrl+C key, and is 
>calling back into Python to handle it.

Ah, yes. I see what you mean. The Ctrl-C is being hit while the component has
control. Does this imply that the component isn't tidying up correctly after
Ctrl-C?

Thanks for the comments,
Paul.



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Aug 12 06:54:11 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 12:54:11 +0200
Subject: Please Help:   xml.parsers.expat question
References: <hns2ntgvslq3uouagbpqolik9q7h1oj6df@4ax.com> <1544816.6Veaoefvbu@lunix.schabi.de> <j4d762dhst.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1123976.taCxCBeP46@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <j41ymhlfak.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> writes:

> It is reproducable - the second try to import doesn't give an error 
> message any more.
> 
> It seems as yesterday, I thought of a typo causing the first error, and 
> retried it. As it seemed to work, I just copy-pasted the command to my 
> reply.

That explains it. xml.parsers.expat just has

from pyexpat import *

On first import, this fails. On second import, xml.parsers.expat is
already imported, so no attempt to import it again is made, and you
get an empty module.

Regards,
Martin



From Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de  Sun Aug 19 19:05:58 2001
From: Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 23:05:58 GMT
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <9lp2fp0u6e@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o0fte.3vvilp7.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:00:34 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>> Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient

>> They are not omniscient but they should have visions. And accepting these
>> visions and live and work with them (of course after choosing a suitable
>> design first) seems to me being far more better than using brute force
>> and quick hacks which only means: Only my point of view is right, nothing
>> else and my first choice would be programming against any idea which is
>> not mine.

> It seems you've never found yourself in a situation where you *have* to
> use a given framework (e.g., MFC) because of corporate policy. [...]

I am in such a situation *g* I have to use Python together with PostgreSQL.
This is what i *have* to do but it would be stupid for me to see it as a
restriction in the negative sense. We are searching together for a suitable
framework and if one has an objection it is heard to i.e. nothing is
happening above our heads.

I don't want to start a religious war but i deeply believe that such policy
you have described above will lead into agony on long terms. It means the
death of every dynamic developement process which needs some freedom of
choice and the freedom of information. If you have this guaranteed it would
be easy for you to accept 'open' restrictions. Open because you can look
into the source code and hopefully understand the reasons for the
restrictions - or change it. Nothing is created for eternity :-)

The general goals in designing a new programming language should not mainly
be oriented to work in such unfree environments. 

This is my point of view but - as i said above - we should avoid a religious
flame war about open source. I'm new to this NG (and new to Python too) and
mainly interested in Python related things :-)

BTW: this all does _not_ mean that i'm deeply missing private and protected
in Python. 

> If you've always had free rein in choosing the frameworks you are to work
> with, you're in a very unusual situation in this industry.  

Nobody is totally free and it is not necessary to have the freedom to choose
the framework by yourself but to have the possibility to change things you
can't live with. And there must be a good feeling in general. 

That's enough - for me :-)

> And the omniscience problem is then just shifted from the frameworks'
> designers to you 

In this special case: yes

> -- once you have coded tens of thousands of lines to that framework, which
> instantiates that particular concrete class in such-and-such situation,
> what do you do when you THEN find out that in release N+1 of your program
> you absoutely need _another_ class for those generated objects?  

Crying: "Shit!" - what else? *gg*

But seriously: First I will have to accept that something went wrong with my
ideas. And then i would try to redesign the whole thing avoiding as much
ugly quickhacks as possible. 

> You basically have the above choices plus (in theory) that of throwing
> everything you have away and recoding it all from scratch 

'mercilessly refactoring' was the keyword ... But it is a big difference
stucking deep into the problem and writing all from scratch knowing
basically nothing. At the point you described _many_ code fragments are
written in your head before you start. Not so if you are unexperienced. We
had this discussion a few days ago. One told me he had lost a floppy disc
with all his source code a few years ago (no back up - of course :-). He
needed months to write the code first but only days to do the work again.
And the second version was better than the lost one. 

Hmm, one should delete all of his source code some times :-)





Bernd


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 30 22:47:06 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 19:47:06 -0700
Subject: Stackless Python and Python 2.x
References: <Xns910BA52745692michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns910D5488B669Cmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3B8EF2E6.CAEB05CC@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <7x4rqpj68l.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> > I've seen Guido van Rossum quoted as being against this because it's
> > incompatible with the Java Virtual Machine (as I understood it).
> 
> The other reason is that, by all accounts, if anyone
> other than Christian Tismer tries to do anything with
> the core code, their brain explodes.

I haven't looked at the Stackless code but it's not conceptually that
big a leap.  Standard ML of New Jersey was implemented like that, for
example.


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 20 02:55:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:55:54 -0400
Subject: Nested scopes and lexical closures
In-Reply-To: <9lms3301hid@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENJLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli, on rebinding non-local vrbls in nested scopes]

> Only Guido knows, but I suspect he doesn't mean to.

Not if he doesn't "have to", no.  Very few people asked for nested scopes
before lambda snuck into the language, but then the demands zoomed, due to
the unbearable inability of lambda expressions to "see" the vrbls in code
right next to them.  *Re*binding isn't possible in a lambda anyway (all
rebinding contexts in Python are attached to stmts, and lambdas can't
contain stmts), so the hope is we'll be back to an easily overlooked trickle
of intemperate demands from unreformed Scheme-heads.

OTOH, Jeremy Hylton implemented nested scopes, and he's an MIT alum, so if
he's an unreformed Scheme-head in theory if not in practice.  If a
compelling syntax had appeared, I bet he would have pushed hard for it.

Guido continues to believe that mutable state is much better modeled by
classes, so he's not going to change anything here without intense pressure.

> ...
> I thought the Java rule might be better: when a variable named
> X is bound in an enclosing block, an inner block CANNOT define
> a variable named X -- neither bind a new one nor rebind the
> one in the outer block.  This would not change functionality
> (you'd just have to change names of new variables in inner
> blocks whose names conflict with outer-block variables), but
> I thought it would avoid the slight confusion that comes with
> the present situation, where one THINKS one's re-binding an
> outer-block variable but is in fact binding a new local homonym
> that shadows (hides) the outer one.

OTOH, Java allows locals to shadow class members, and that's a source of
bugs too -- and somtimes worse, because the class members' declarations may
be physically far removed.  BTW, the most frequent blind spot in my C++ days
was using an editor to copy (e.g.)

    int numFrobnicators;

from the class decl into a new method, *intending* to write e.g.

    numFrobnicators = 0;

in the latter, but then leaving the "int " in by mistake:

    int numFrobnicators = 0;

C++, like Java, is happy with that, and the resulting code is a disaster.

In Pythonland, the internal PythonLabs debate over shadowing rules
floundered over what to do about the builtins.  In a real sense, they're in
an enclosing scope too, but billions (yes, I counted <wink>) of functions do
something like

    str = first + last

"list" is also routinely rebound.  So the idea hit a snag:  making an
exception for builtins would have been at least a little ugly, but not
excepting them would have caused howls of protest.

> ...
> Anyway, I don't think my musings of the time were very
> much listened to.

I believe Guido was aware of them; I know I was.

> Some people can't stand my style, and, alas, it appears our beloved
> BDFL belongs to that unlucky minority

Guido loves you!  But he has very little time for debate, while your
debating budget exceeds the ambitions of most third-world economies <wink>.

> (not too sure it IS a minority, but they're surely unlucky for
> their unfortunate dislikes, aren't they:-).

Indeed they are.

although-most-times-nesting-is-still-for-the-birds-ly y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 01:52:49 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:52:49 -0400
Subject: How to change Windows Environment Variable
In-Reply-To: <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOKELLCCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECALJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[???]
> Thanks quick reply. But not set to OS.
> I would like to set and using while login windows.
>
> >>>Import os

Here I get suspicious, on two counts:  there's no space between the prompt
and your import, and Python is case-sensitive so "Import os" would have
given a SyntaxError.  Both of those tell me you're not pasting what you
actually did, and that makes it hard to take anything that follows at face
value either.

> >>>os.environ['Test'] = 'Hello '
> >>>print 'Test key in this?=', os.environ.has_key('Test')
> Test key in this?= 0

Here's an actual copy-and-paste:

>>> import os
>>> os.environ['Test'] = 'Hello '
>>> print 'Test key in this?=', os.environ.has_key('Test')
Test key in this?= 1
>>>

Worked fine.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 00:11:39 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:11:39 -0400
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999028783.18165.python-list@python.org> <x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <J4Vi7.172382$rV6.8623803@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3b8c306d.718575126@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <jUZi7.176950$rV6.8807005@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b8c306d.718575126 at wa.news.verio.net...
[ ... ]
> Well, the problem is fp literals are not necessarily as exact as they
look:
>
>  >>> `0.005`
>  '0.0050000000000000001'
>  >>> `0.015`
>  '0.014999999999999999'
>  >>> `0.025`
>  '0.025000000000000001'
>
> The essential problem is transforming representations into elements of
> another set that doesn't match 1:1 all over both sets of representations.
>
>
I am quite aware of the inexactness of floating point representations. The
inexactness that bothers me (and only mildy) is the inexactness of the
answer to the original question which started this thread. Piotr, you will
remember, asked how he could represent numbers as strings to two decimal
places in a file.

There is, as has been pointed out, a perfectly Pythonic way to do this:

>>> "%.2d" % 0.005
'00'
>>> "%0.2f" % 0.005
'0.01'
>>> "%0.2f" % 0.015
'0.01'
>>> "%0.2f" % 0.025
'0.03'

Given that, in the general case, you don't know whether the
0.025000000000000001 has been generated by programmed calculation or by a
numeric literal containing exactly that value, what's wrong with the
Pythonic way?

Given that Tim Peters has been significantly involved in developing the
code, and where numerical computation (and many other things) are concerned
he has a brain the size of a planet, I don't see why you feel it is
necessary to introduce such complications into your code to do something
which is a natural one-liner. I certainly wouldn't bet money on either of us
being able to come up with anything substantially better in finite time.

[Piotr: if you're reading this, perhaps you will appreciate how an apprently
innocent question can meander off into the undergrowth and live for days.
Good question!]

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Aug 29 15:03:15 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:03:15 GMT
Subject: programme call with popen
References: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com> <3B8D2533.9DDDF419@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9mje9j$140m$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com>:
| Christian Schleippmann wrote:
|
| > Hello everybody,
| > I use the popen2 function to initialize a variable with the output of
| > a programme.
|
| ....
|
| >
| > >>>import popen2,string
| > >>>fin, fout = popen2.popen2("[programmecall]")
| > #HERE HAPPENS SOMETHING I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, python "waits"
| >
| > >>>fin.read() #this works fine again
|
| Here, fin is the input *to* your program, and fout is the output *from*
| your program.  If the program you're calling doesn't require any input,
| you can disregard fin.  In order to get the output from your program,
| you'd need to call:
|
| >>> myoutput = fout.read()

If I understand you, it looks to me like you just stepped in the
hole between os.popen2 and popen2.popen2.  os.popen2 just calls
popen2.popen2 - and reverses the order of the returns.  You're
right if you were calling os.popen2.

>>> import popen2
>>> fin, fout = popen2.popen2('echo hi')
>>> fin.readline()
'hi\n'
>>>

So what's his problem?  Beats me, I tried to read his post but can't
understand it.  Christian, if you're reading this - try again.  Come
up with an example we can test, and say what you want.

| Note that this will block until the program has finished running.  If the
| program will take some time, you might want to poll in a loop, like
| so....
|
| >>> while 1:
| >>>     line = fout.readline()
| >>>     if line = '':
| >>>         break
| >>>     DoSomethingWith(line)
|
| You can also read character-by-character (using fout.read(1)) or
| whatever, just as you would read any file object.  Just keep in mind that
| an empty string ( '' ) indicates the "end-of-file", and any read will
| block if there's no output available (until EOF is reached).  Also, don't
| forget to close *both* your file handles when you're done with them.

Also might be worth mentioning that depending on the implementation
of the other program, it could buffer output to more or less the same
effect - even readline() or read(1) could block until the program exits,
for that reason.  Potential for deadlock, when you're really using popen2
for its intended purpose, reading and writing.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Aug 21 10:05:25 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:05:25 +0300
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org> <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org> <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list@python.org> <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998398653.29844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuwv3xa4pm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.998398653.29844.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

| The limitations of Unix's CPU time granularity and the single-task nature of
| Windows doesn't mean the semantics of time.clock should be broken to get
| higher resolution.  Besides, what about NT?  Doesn't it distinguish between
| tasks?

the windows time.clock() calls a win32 api function that reads the
time stamp counter register that x86 cpus have, and then divides it by
the number of time stamp counter ticks per second. the time stamp
counter does not stop at any point. i would guess that it works the
same on the dos-based windows versions and on the nt-based ones.

there are 2 things here and i am not sure which ones we are disagreeing
about.

1) it is usually better to use gettimeofday(2) than times(2) on unix for
timing code because times(2) has poor resolution and the user/system
time numbers are frequently gibberish.

2) the python time.clock() should return information based on 
gettimeofday(2) and not times(2) on unix.

i don't care much about 2), it is only slightly annoying to have
to check which platform you are on and call time.clock() or time.time()
accordingly in order to get good resolution. perhaps a new function
should be introduced.

  -- erno


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Fri Aug 10 09:50:59 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:50:59 GMT
Subject: calldll question
References: <9d848d5d.0108100358.6f2f3ca2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F9643FF81EAgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>

Wayne wrote:


> When I only load windll using:
> 
>     from windll import *
>     mod1 = module("c:\\windows\\system32\\packet.dll")

Should be mod1 = module('packet')

Should *really* be:
import windll
mod1 = windll.module('packet')

Only use "from .. import *" if you have a really good reason.
If you don't know what qualifies as a "really good reason",
then don't use it at all.

> I receive the following error message:
> 
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     AttributeError: 'calldll' module has no attribute 'load_library'
> 
> When I load both calldll and windll my console gets flooded with:
> 
>     Exception exceptions.RuntimeError: 'maximum recursion depth
> exceeded' in
>     <method module.__del__ of module instance at 007EC5D4> ignored

Not sure what you mean by "load both". windll loads calldll already. If 
you're using the windll interface, you don't need calldll.

- Gordon


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Fri Aug 17 23:08:18 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:08:18 -0400
Subject: Is this function attribute weirdness a feature or bug?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108172303020.19877-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Hello!

I am using Python 2.2a1.  This works ok:


  def f(): pass
  f.att = 3


HOWEVER--this:

  class C:
      def g(): pass

  C.g.att = 3

yields: 
     
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   TypeError: read-only attribute: att

I get the same for instances.  Now,  when I attach 'f' to C, I again
get an error:

  C.f = f
  C.f.att2 = 3

  <same exception here>

However, I can still assign attributes to global f(): 

  f.att2 = 4
  print C.f.att2   # prints '4'


So is this a design feature or a bug? 

Thanks, 
Roey

   







From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 04:20:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:20:50 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
    ...
> Oops!  Very true.  I should have rewritten it as
>
>     e = 'wow'
>     b,c,d = 'wow'
>     a = 'wow'
>
> Hmm.  The argument about obfuscation versus repetition comes more clearly
> into focus.  I still think multiple assignment is a bad thing...

So now consider:

    y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()

How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)

Seriously now -- multiple assignment is a very minor thing, but
handy when you do need it, and not error-prone.  So, why not?


Alex





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Aug 25 05:22:36 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:22:36 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <7xr8u12nqw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251319040.32632-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On 24 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:
> OK, but if you need a lot of caching, is that not a sign that the
> template engine is too slow?

   Absolutely not. Besides templates there is application logic, SQL
queries, etc. There are many things to slow dynamic site down.

> I'm even more scared of Zope.  I notice
> that www.zope.com says it's served by three separate machines
> connected by a load balancer.  I don't know how many visitors they get
> but it can't be nearly enough to need that much hardware under any
> reasonable page generating system.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:49:45 +0200
From: "Bauer, Georg" <bauer at gws.ms>
To: 'Oleg Broytmann' <phd at phd.pp.ru>
Subject: AW: Zope Proxy Cache Manager

Hi!

> http://www.zope.org/Members/xgwsbae/ZopeProxyCacheManager you said
> "enable us to server multimillion hit systems". Can you
> provide URLs for
> these systems?

The biggest system ist http://www.tec24.com/, another one is
http://www.raiffeisen.com/. Both are built with  Zope, but since the
customer didn't want us to put the Zope logo on those pages, I didn't
mention them for the zope resources page. Tec24 has 1 million page views per
month, the hit count is about 3.5 million per month. Estimated SQL
transactions per month are 2.5 million (several pages are built by more than
two SQL transactions). It currently uses standard caching, but will be
switched to Zope Proxy Cache Manager within the next weeks, as we hit the
limit of the machine with standard caching (I use the RAM Cache Manager With
Age currently).

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.





From bsb at winnegan.de  Mon Aug 20 10:54:01 2001
From: bsb at winnegan.de (Siggy Brentrup)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 16:54:01 +0200
Subject: Lists into lists
In-Reply-To: <9lr75f$njd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <9lr75f$njd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <87u1z2aik6.fsf@winnegan.de>

"Jeff Cohen" <jaif at mindspring.com> writes:

> I'm just learning python, so sorry if this is obvious but I didn't see it in
> the book or a few tutorials I found.
> Now, I did this with
> 
> >>x.insert(0,y)

[...]

> Any help there?

How about inserting a copy of y:
  x.insert(0, y[:])


Siggy

-- 
Siggy Brentrup - bsb at winnegan.de - http://oss.winnegan.de/
****** ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam *******



From relfx at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  9 10:20:29 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:20:29 -0400
Subject: I want to disect a irc client's source
Message-ID: <iWwc7.6402$Ke7.383993@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I got the source code for a irc client i used but it was written in
mircosoft visual C ++ 6.0. Does that matter? If anyone has experience in
this field you can check out the source code yourself and tell me what you
think.


http://www.dircscripts.com/source.php





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Aug 14 20:44:46 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:44:46 +1000
Subject: why no ++?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09ED3@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> > So now consider:
> >
> >     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
> >
> > How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
> > that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
> > temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)
>
> y.a, (b,c,d), x.e = [wower()] * 3

That's just evil.

Tim Delaney



From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Fri Aug 17 19:51:48 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 02:51:48 +0300
Subject: __del__ ignores exception in 2.1?
References: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr> <ac677656.0108171000.38f6266b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7DAE14.710D5C70@iit.demokritos.gr>

Tom Good wrote:
> 
> From the Python 2.1 docs, section on __del__() :
> 
> "Warning: due to the precarious circumstances under which __del__()
> methods are invoked, exceptions that occur during their execution are
> ignored, and a warning is printed to sys.stderr instead."
> 
So it is documented behaviour, good. Thanks.

	.Bill


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 09:08:19 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:08:19 +0100
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <7x66bj6csv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o22u3.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 19 Aug 2001 12:59:44 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>polopunk209 at hotmail.com (Josh) writes:
>> I want to work with PyGAME. But, I know I need to spend a little more
>> time with some simple Python programs. But, I have no idea what would
>> be a good program for a novice to work on. This isn't helped by the
>> fact that the only need I really have for a computer at this point in
>> my life is entertainment. Anyway, what do you guys think are some good
>> problems for a novice such as myself to tackle? Thanks for your
>> suggestions.
>
>I'd say get a good introductory programming book and work on some
>problems that interest you.  For games, you might start out writing
>some simple text-based games like "guess the animal": you think of
>an animal and the computer asks (your answers start with >>>):
>
>   -- Does it fly?
>   >>> no
>   -- Does it have tusks?
>   >>> yes
>   -- My guess: it's an elephant.  Is that right?
>   >>> no
>   -- OK, what is it?
>   >>> a walrus
>   -- What's a yes/no question that lets me tell a walrus from an elephant
>   >>> does it swim?
>   -- What's the answer to 'does it swim?' for 'a walrus'?
>   >>> yes
>
>When you teach the program a new animal, it remembers the animal and
>the new question in a disk file for next time.

I agree with this. The "Animals Game" is a good 1st program to write in a
new programming language whenever you learn one.

It's complex enough to test your knowledge of the language, and
simple enough to be written quickly.

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 20 23:57:28 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:57:28 -0400
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
References: <zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <3B81DC28.E5D82EA7@engcorp.com>

Dev Null wrote:
> 
> Yeah, okay.  It looks like just another ordinary little bunny in front of a
> cave's mouth.
> 
> But in reality, it's much deadlier.  It's a Python newbie.
> 
> Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?

Umm, www.python.org ?  Or did you have a particular goal in mind?

(Put another way, there are a *zillion* good resources, depending
entirely on just what you really want to do.  Are you looking
for good _learning_ resources?  Good _GUI_ resources?  Give
us a hint before we send you off in all directions with no
goal in mind.)


From rbtns082484 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  9 15:22:53 2001
From: rbtns082484 at hotmail.com (Rbtns)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:22:53 -0400
Subject: SelectingTextWithATwist
Message-ID: <3B72E30D.BE026528@hotmail.com>

I am using Tkinter with Python and I have a text box.  In this text box
I have something to the effect of:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP
QRSTUVWXYZABCDEF


This is two lines of text in one text widget.  I want to be able to
select from the B in the first line to the X in the second line,
producing:

BCDEFGH
RSTUVWX

as if a box was drawn containing B-H and R-X not:

BCDEFGHIJKLMNOP
QRSTUVWX

as a regular text editor would do.

I think this can be accomplished through the highlight option/method or
a canvas behind the embeded text.  Can anyone help with this?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010809/3226a895/attachment.html>

From carlf at panix.com  Thu Aug  2 13:06:10 2001
From: carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 17:06:10 GMT
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
Message-ID: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>

I asked about this on the debian-user mailing list and got no answers
at all, not a good sign, but:  has anyone installed Python 2.1 or
later on a Potato system?  There are no .deb files that I can locate
to do so.

I've installed quite a bit of software outside the Debian packaging
system, but I'm leery of fiddling with Python because dpkg/apt *uses*
Python, and if 2.1 breaks dpkg I'm screwed.  So I'm wondering if
anyone has actual experience and pointers?

Thanks.

Oh, please answer to the newsgroup, not by email.  That way the
answers remain here for Google to retain for others.
-- 
Carl Fink		carlf at dm.net


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Aug 16 07:28:12 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:28:12 +0100
Subject: string operations (ctrl characters)
References: <mailman.997950925.22550.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lgaod$10aq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Hans Nowak" <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.997950925.22550.python-list at python.org...

> You don't *need* regexen for this, though. One approach could be, scanning the
> string for "acceptable" characters, and replacing anything else with some
> default character, or removing it.

That would not be best in this case, as he is seeing ANSI escape sequences.
You often see things like <ESC>[23m ; there is a general syntax for them so
a good emulator should be able to parse and ignore unrecognised codes.
Unfortunately, there is no obvious "end escape sequence" delimiter, so its
not entirely trivial.




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 13 12:23:30 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:23:30 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <9l8saq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <3B77FF02.F2B5A90@alcyone.com>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:

>     self.state = 1 - self.state
> 
> ;-)

Why not just 

	self.state = not self.state

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am the essence of overconfidence!
\__/ Capt. Benjamin "Hawkeye" Pierce
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From deblnonospammy at theworld.com  Mon Aug 13 21:45:25 2001
From: deblnonospammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:45:25 GMT
Subject: Norton AV 2001 has fixed virus signature bug for swig.bat
Message-ID: <3B788245.85EFB15@theworld.com>

I reported on 8/3 that Norton AV 2001 was reporting a virus in the
ActiveState source distribution for build 210.  I just got a note back
from Norton telling me they have corrected the problem.  They have.  I
just updated the signatures and it no longer reports the 'swig.bat' file
as a virus.

david lees


From bhannah at mc.net  Fri Aug 31 14:30:15 2001
From: bhannah at mc.net (brian)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:30:15 -0500
Subject: PING Help
Message-ID: <3b8fd82e$0$19384@wodc7nh6.news.uu.net>

Hello
Kinda new to python here is what I am trying to do
working with windows nt a simple ping script
this is what I have.
_______________________________________________________
import os
import ping
import time
print time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S",time.localtime(time.time()))

ip = float (raw_input(" enter ip to ping "))
from os ping, ip
_______________________________________________________
This don't work
Any help with this issue would be great
Thanks
Brian Hannah




From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Fri Aug 17 09:20:37 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:20:37 +0200
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:00:46 +0200, Boudewijn Rempt <boudewijn at tryllian.com>
wrote:

>I've found little value in writing unittests for GUI apps (and that 
>includes games), but lots of use for unittests in the underlying libraries. 

One thing that I've not seen pointed out anywhere (it doesn't even seem to be
in the manual!) is that to write simple tests is pretty much trivial:

import unittest

class Tests(unittest.TestCase):
    def test1(self):
        self.assertEquals(1,1)
    def test2(self):
        self.assertEquals(1,2)

if __name__=='__main__':
    unittest.main()

Basically, it looks like unittest.main() scans the code for classes derived
from unittest.TestCase, and runs all methods whose names start with 'test' as
test cases.

This makes writing a series of simple, repetitive, tests very straightforward.
Obviously, for more complex cases, you need the more complex infrastructure,
but I have to say that *not* emphasising how simple it is to write basic
tests, does put people off. (It certainly put me off!)

One point with this form of test: If I add a setUp() or a tearDown() method,
they are called before and after *each* test, rather than once at the start
and end of the suite of tests. But without this stuff being documented, I'm
not sure if this should be considered "correct"...

Paul.



From tundra at tundraware.com  Thu Aug  2 19:45:09 2001
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 23:45:09 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com>

Chris Barker wrote:
> 
> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> 
> > It depends on what you mean by "enclosure".  Per the point above,
> > organizations, like people, need to enforce their property rights.
> 
> "need" is arguable. I think a whole lot of organizations keep their code
> restricted for no good reason. Of course, some folks have good reason:
> Microsoft could be a successful company if it opened up it's products,
> but it would be no where near as rich!

That's right.  And as a leader in any company with investors, public
or private, you have an ethical obligation to maximize their return
on investment using any (ethical) means at your disposal.  
"Ethical Means" should be read to mean "any activity which
does not involve Fraud, Violence, or Threat Of Violence). 

In this same vein - "I think a whole lot of individuals keep their
money in bank accounts that are hard to get into.  If they would
just open up their bank accounts and let me have some of their
property, they'd still have some money left." 

Property is property, regardless of the medium it which it is
expressed.  Property Rights are fundamental to any civil society.

> 
> > If a particular technology makes this impossible or very hard,
> > that technology will be met by huge opposition.  I once was in
> > the position of having to authorize buying Sun's 'C' compiler
> > rather than using the GPLed GCC for exactly this reason.  Even though
> > I, and all the engineers who worked for me, preferred GCC, I could
> > not in good conscience expose my company to the possibilty  of
> > being forced to reveal the inner workings of a product that
> > was our key competetive distinction in the market we served.
> > This sort of thing is not unusual.
> 
> Why in the world was this a possibility??? I can see that paranoid
> non-lawyer non-techie execs might think so, but while the GPL can be
> considered a virus, it is not very contagious. It only acts that way if
> you want to include GPL'd code in your code base, not if you want to use
> the output from an executable that happens to be built from the GPL.
> This is very well accepted. If you wanted to add functionality to gcc
> itself, and keep that private, that's another question, but I don't
> think Sun would let you do that either: unless you gave them a LOT of
> money!

At the time, the GNU 'lesser' license had not yet been hammered out.
The license as written could have been construed to mean that software 
compiled w/GCC had to be distributed in source form.   We were a 
software vendor and this was an unacceptable risk, in my judgement.
(Because I was fulfilling my obligation to the investors to try to maximize
their return on investment.)

> 
> > This, BTW, is why the GPL is under attack and people are looking
> > for alternatives.
> 
> Not exactly. There is no problem with using a GPL'd tool to run any part
> of your business. The only thing you can't do is include GPL'd code
> itself in a proprietary product. That, of course, is a good reason for
> libraries and other components that you might want to include with
> proprietary software (such as Python) not to be GPL'd. Even if the
> CPython interpreter were to be GPL'd you could still develop proprietary
> software with it, but you could not include the interpreter, or part of
> it in your own app. This ability, of course is very useful, so it's a
> good thing it has a more liberal license.
> 
> By the way, even the FSF acknowledges this, which is why the LGPL
> exists.
> 
> -Chris
> 


I have no problem with Open Source authors stipulating the terms
of distribution of their work.  This is, after all, *their* property
and their rights thereto ought to be protected like anyone elses.

As I mentioned above, the problems I have encountered in this area
are pre-LGPL and may well no longer be an issue.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tundra at tundraware.com


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug  7 11:46:48 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:46:48 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: bug or feature? Re: [Python-Dev] ANN: PyChecker v0.8
In-Reply-To: <3B6FDD2A.85FB5B12@metaslash.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071940290.1671-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Neal Norwitz wrote:

>A new version of PyChecker is available for your hacking pleasure.
>
>        PyChecker is a tool for finding common bugs in python source code.
>        It finds problems that are typically caught by a compiler for less
>        dynamic languages, like C and C++.
>
>Comments, criticisms, new ideas, and other feedback is welcome.

Thank you, Neal!

I am not sure if it is a bug or feature, but I have files
named like:

01.001.py

and PyChecker refuses to check them:

---------------------------------------------------------------

$pychecker.sh 01.001.py
Processing 01.001...
  Problem importing module 01.001 - No module named 01

Warnings...

01.001:1: NOT PROCESSED UNABLE TO IMPORT
----------------------------------------------------------------

Is there any limitation on calling Python _programs_ without any dots
others than before 'py'? Or do I need to rename all those files?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Tuesday, August 07, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "All work and no play, will make you a manager." _/





From mhoward at mahoward.com  Tue Aug 14 20:21:40 2001
From: mhoward at mahoward.com (Michael A. Howard)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:21:40 -0700
Subject: Need Help with COM
References: <9lc9t0$fo4$1@news.apple.com> <sVie7.10397$ZM2.950970@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9lcffk$hm1$1@news.apple.com>

"Mark_Pryor" <erlangen72 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sVie7.10397$ZM2.950970 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Hi,
Michael A. Howard wrote in message <9lc9t0$fo4$1 at news.apple.com>...
>I'm coming to Python from VB and trying to understand how the COM stuff
>works.
>
>I have a COM server (not written by me) that supports in VB the call
>oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
>Which returns the caption of this item as I can see it from the object
>browser in VB
>
>The same call in python returns:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'Caption'
>
>If I use Excel as an example i.e.
>o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1).Caption
>I get   u'&File'
>Which is also what I get in VB (well &File anyway)
>
>So what am I doing wrong?

Thanks for the response but I get the same error message using that example.

Unfortunately the COM object is a black box (no source) to me so I can't
change it.

Mike

Either write the call like this (to handle the tuple):
( junk, mycap ) = oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption

or redesign the Item method to pass the index by value!
You might have to switch the vars above.

hth,
Mark Pryor
pgp KeyID: 0x1A966EC5









From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 10:07:58 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:07:58 -0700
Subject: Converting to ASCII
References: <mailman.998655519.9347.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m5nbk$i9f2$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I'm going to assume you mean you want the rendered postscript as ascii.  Not
a python question particularly, but on linux try ps2ascii and maybe there's
such a thing for windows.

HTH

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Stephen Gaudet" <stepheng at cae.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998655519.9347.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> I'm a new Python user and have a postscript file that I want to convert to
> ASCII...does anyone know how to do this?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Stephen
>



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:21:47 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:21:47 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9m3028025bu@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-1DB49F.08271523082001 at news1.panix.com...
> "Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es> wrote:
> > My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
> > v[5 # 2]
>
> I don't see that this adds anything to the language that can't be done
> already, other than being another way to do the same thing.

Further, it's such an EASY thing to do -- the proposed
    a[b # c]
is EXACTLY the same as
    a[b:b+c]
so where's the added value to justify something as major
as adding a new operator...?

I'd much rather have the modest implementation change to
ensure that a[slice(b,b+c)] did just the same for all
sequences -- it's a rather surprising thing that it fails!


Alex





From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Aug 21 06:07:36 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:07:36 +0100
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b5ab.211557072@news.laplaza.org> <9lsj6l$qeu$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <9ltc6g01o3p@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lu4ju$af4$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Alex:
>Modern Linux kernels use page-granularity

Thanks.  Lotsa words in that link you gave :)

>What's Minux, a Minix/Linux hybrid...?

A typo for 'Minix' but my fingers expected 'Linux' so
they got munged together.  I meant it mostly as a joke.

                    Andrew





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 25 16:00:45 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:00:45 +0100
Subject: Ref Count Checking
References: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.998764178.19787.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dkkmeJAtPAi7EwkZ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.998764178.19787.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> writes
>On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
>
>> As part of an extension debugging exercise I printed refcounts
>> relating to the structure
>> ('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
>> either created directly in Python or by my extension.
>>
>>
>> An earlier pass revealed values of decrementing values
>> for the None output from the extension (it was stealing a None).
>> After Correcting I'm still getting differences.
>> In particular the strings az1, ay1, b1, c1, d1, e1 seem to have counts from 
>the
>> extension which are 3 lower than from the python version.
>>
>> Is there any way to deduce what the python count should be?
>> I'm assuming that a string like az1 is reasonably unique so there
>> shouldn't be any question of a library reference.
>
>Your extension is probably still using a borrowed reference and not
>incrementing its refcount. Have a look at
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/api.html and note which functions return
>borrowed references and which return new references.
well for the dictionary {'z1':'az1'} I use

PyDict_SetItemString(attrs, (char*)a->definition->name, t=PyString_FromString(a->value));
Py_DECREF(t);

I assume that the insertion adds 1 to the ref count and
the temporary ref t is not needed any more. There's no mention of
stealing/borrowing in the docs for PyDict_SetItemString.

Anyway that still doesn't answer my question. How to deduce the ref count
in a python struct.

>>> p=('a1', {'z1': 'az1'}, ['b1', ('c1', {'y1': 'ay1'}, ['d1'], None), 'e1'], None)
>>> from sys import getrefcount as rc
>>> rc(p[1]['z1'])
4

the value 4 seems a little high to me. I see only one 'az1' and I can imagine that p[1]['z']
grabs another reference to it. I make the proper count 2 ie one ref in the Dict and one for the
argument to rc. Where do the other 2 come from?

Are the strings being interned or something? Why do the following simpler cases
differ?

>>> p={'z1': 'az1'}
>>> rc(p['z1'])
4
>>> p={'z1': 9999999}
>>> rc(p['z1'])
2
>>> 
-- 
Robin Becker


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  8 00:13:15 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:13:15 -0400
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
In-Reply-To: <uy9oviak1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEDGLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[David Bolen]
> ...
> I've found the only real conflict with multiple versions in the
> registry is with file extension registration - where the most
> recent version of Python I've installed "wins".  That only comes into
> play if you let Windows pick your Python interpreter - you can always
> explicitly run a specific Python version against a script.  In the
> end, I typically just edit the file associations to make them default
> to the version I want as the default.

If you (or Mats) do this often, it's sure easier to create a .reg file to do
it for you.  For example, for 2.1 or 2.1.1 installed in C:\Python21:

-------------------- snip here
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File]
@="Python File"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\DefaultIcon]
@="C:\\Python21\\Py.ico"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open\command]
@="C:\\Python21\\python.exe \"%1\" %*"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.NoConFile]
@="Python File (no console)"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.NoConFile\DefaultIcon]
@="C:\\Python21\\Py.ico"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.NoConFile\shell\open\command]
@="C:\\Python21\\pythonw.exe \"%1\" %*"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.CompiledFile]
@="Compiled Python File"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.CompiledFile\DefaultIcon]
@="C:\\Python21\\pyc.ico"
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.CompiledFile\shell\open\command]
@="C:\\Python21\\python.exe \"%1\" %*"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py]
@="Python.File"
"Content Type"="text/plain"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pyw]
@="Python.NoConFile"
"Content Type"="text/plain"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pyc]
@="Python.CompiledFile"
-------------------- snip here

Stick that in a file, like python21.reg.  When you want to restore the 2.1
file associations, right-click on python21.reg in Explorer and select Merge
from the context menu.

Or type

    regedit /s python21.reg

at a command prompt -- the "/s" is for "silent".

Under Win2K (but nothing else), it also works to store these things under
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Classes (mirroring that HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT is just
a shorthand for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Classes).  HKCR under Win2K is a
merged view of HKLM's Software\Classes and HKCU's, with the latter "winning"
in case of duplicates.  This allows each acct its own beliefs about what
file extensions mean.  Fiddle the .reg file in the obvious ways if that's
desirable.

> Since everything else is under a version specific Python tag in the
> registry (or in the start menu), even with the default registry
> adjusting installers, I've got 1.5.2, 2.0.1, 2.1.1 and 2.2a1 installed
> simultaneously without any problems.  Note that multiple revisions of
> the same version (e.g., 2.2a1 and any future 2.2a2 for example) will
> have other conflicts as they use the same keys which are only
> major.minor.

This is deliberate, but only Mark Hammond understands it <0.8 wink>.

> The win32all extensions do really seem to need the registry (at the
> least to find some magic modules),

Ditto.

> but they are also versioned (so the DLLs don't conflict in the system
> directory) and installed beneath the appropriate Python key for the
> version of the extensions, so I haven't had any problem with them
> either.

A mixed blessing:  since extension modules compile-in the name of the main
Python DLL they use, every time we bump a minor version number our Windows
users *have* to get freshly-compiled extension modules.  We've stuck to the
"about 6 months between .minor" releases we wanted to achieve when Guido
left CNRI, and that DLL renaming scheme was invented when releases were
slower-paced.  People on Windows would probably riot if they learned that
Unix users usually don't have to upgrade extensions -- so I'm not going to
mention it <wink>.  The major.minor dependence on Windows is artificial,
rarely reflecting an actual incompatibility.

PEP material there, if someone cares enough to wrestle with the issues.

> I run most stuff with Cygwin/bash, so I have a few bash aliases that
> run the right interpreter against a script when I want to pick
> explicitly, and some others that temporarily adjust paths to default
> to the right installation directories.  The same could be done with
> .cmd files (or .bat files).

Even in a plain command.com DOS box (which is as plain as such things get),
I usually just type the path to the Python I want, when it matters (not
often!).  Else I have this trivial py.bat in my \bin directory:

\python21\python.exe %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9

Twice per year, I change one letter in it <wink>.

windows-is-easy-if-you-don't-fight-it-ly y'rs  - tim




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 30 00:48:16 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:48:16 -0400
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com> <3b8c6396.98182759@news.laplaza.org> <mmsqotk108mhscebrslums4ln25qsjp3l9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uelpugnlb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:

> I appreciate the input/feedback. However, simply "don't do locks over
> NFS" is a bit brief. Could you elaborate? Why not? What problems does
> this create? Why might the situation improve in NFS V4?

It's been a while since I was deep in NFS messes, but the short of it
is that NFS is a stateless protocol, and file locking is inherently a
stateful activity.  NFS separated out lock issues into a separate
protocol that was actually normally serviced by a completely separate
daemon than normal NFS operations.  And the problem was that it just
didn't work that well (except perhaps in perfect conditions in
homogeneous environments).  There were race conditions, locks could
get stranded due to system crashes, lock daemons didn't always work
properly and so on.  The lock protocol also changed from NFS v2 to v3
creating further headaches for interoperability.  And the NFS model
wasn't the greatest fit for non-Unix systems, complicating the attempt
to emulate lock locking facilities.

In most cases, anyone who tried to depend on locking over NFS (after
all, if you're using it it's probably important) eventually got burned
one too many times and just swore off of it.

Version 4 of NFS improves a lot on the handling of locks, moving them
(and the need to maintain their state on the server as a leased basis)
into the core protocol.  I don't have any personal experience with v4
configurations (the RFC is from 12/2000 so I don't know how widely its
available yet), but at least in theory the protocol ought to be able
to do a much better job managing locks.

I'm sure doing some net searches for NFS and locking could point up
various horror stories :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug  2 18:53:41 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:53:41 -0700
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3B69D9F5.D3A240C8@home.net>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> "David C. Ullrich" wrote:
> > But why should the real and imag of a complex be required to be
> > floats in the first place? Why  shouldn't they be allowed to be
> > floats or rationals or integers?
> 
> A complex number, in the mathematical sense, is
> not a pair of other numbers -- that's just one
> way of *representing* a complex number.

I think this is relevant...
 
> If you have some application for which you
> need pairs of numbers that are restricted to
> being integers or whatever, they're not really
> complex numbers,

But I don't agree with this conclusion. The original question was:

"David C. Ullrich" wrote:
> >> Once these numeric changes are all implemented, if I define a complex
> >> constant with either integer real or imaginary parts, e.g.
> >>
> >>     c = 1+2.1j
> >>
> >>     d = 1.2+5j
> >>
> >>     e = 4+7j
> >>
> >> should I get an integer back (exact) or a float (inexact) when asking for an
> >> attribute that was originally an integer?  In general, can complex numbers
> >> be considered to have two exactness attributes?

As a complex number really is it's own entity, that we choose to
represent as a real and imaginary component (after all, the polar form
is used often as well), it doesn't make any sense to me to maintain two
exactness attributes. A complex number is one number, and it is either
exact or not.

Frankly, it's probably not worth the effort and perfromance hit of
implimenting a form of exact complex numbers, but if it was done, I
would argue that both input values would have to be exact for the number
to be considered exact.

-Chris






-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jonathan at onegoodidea.com  Sat Aug  4 16:38:15 2001
From: jonathan at onegoodidea.com (Jonathan Hogg)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:38:15 +0100
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <3B6C4108.F2D51223@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <jonathan-014DBB.21381504082001@news.easynet.co.uk>

In article <3B6C4108.F2D51223 at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> William Annis wrote:
> > 
> >         Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
> > system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
> > etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
> > *infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."  
> 
> XML is not kool-aid, it's an elixir: "good for what ails ye'" :-)
> 
> You are describing a system in which, I believe, XML is well 
> suited to play a role.  Its primary advantage is as a standard for
> inter-application communication, which is a problem at the heart
> of your situation.  

There is a project designing a framework for managing infrastructures 
called the Arusha project.

   <http://ark.sourceforge.net/>

I should note that I'm a developer on the project, but I also use it 
myself and I think it's worth checking out. The fundamental principle is 
to allow communication and sharing of sysadmin practice.

XML is used to write the specs for hosts, packages, users, etc. The core 
engine that processes these and actually does work is written in Python. 
It takes a while to get your head around it, but I use it to admin some 
machines and other guys on the project are managing quite large 
infrastructures.

Jonathan


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 23:35:01 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:35:01 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997551144.17014.python-list@python.org> <3B757993.F6BB0492@engcorp.com> <3B7578A8.5E8A46B5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3B75F965.45E614C3@engcorp.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > <myproblem:recordset>
> >   <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
> >   <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
> >   <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
> >   <record>0 0 0 0</record>
> >   <record>0 0 0 0</record>
> > </myproblem:recordset>
> 
> This wouldn't be a reasonable solution if, say, each of those
> subelements (a through e) are optional, which it appears might be the
> case (since in the last two lines it is d that is missing, not e).

True, but there is a probably a less verbose alternative
than the original even for that case.  (My point was really
that you don't need to slavishly break the data down into
tiny little pieces, each with a verbose XML tag pair
surrounding it, if that doesn't buy you anything.)

I was assuming, however, that the choice to drop "d"
instead of "e" was merely incidental, not intentional.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Aug 12 19:59:30 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:59:30 -0400
Subject: string bug/oddity?
In-Reply-To: <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 07:45:15PM -0400
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org> <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20010812195930.A1600@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 07:45:15PM -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Oktay Safak wrote:
> > 
> > First I constructed a dictionary a. Here it is:
> > 
> > {'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
> > >>> for x in a.keys():
> >         if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
> >         else: print x+a[x]
> > 
> > 
> > yas23
> > ad'veli'
> > soyad'guzel'
> > 
> > I just want to concatenate the two strings without the
> > quotes as in the last line. 
> 
> Anything wrong with this, simpler, approach?
> 
> >>> for x in a.keys():
> ...     print '%s%s' % (x, a[x])

This is better solution.  But, for educational purpose, in the original
code, 'type()' returns special type values, not a regular string.  So,
what your want is
    type(a[x]) != type("")

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Mon Aug 20 08:39:50 2001
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:39:50 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org><MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <3b7a782f$0$250$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <R4Ae7.106367$EP6.27468550@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3b7bca91$0$97142$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <1526387.fx5fSG56mA@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3b8105af$0$76932$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:1526387.fx5fSG56mA at lunix.schabi.de...
> Anders J. Munch <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> schrub:
>
> > Another option would be to add a new infix operator to the language
> > with the same precedence as /. Something with a long clunky name, like
> > "__oldstyle_divide__", whose only raison d'?tre is compatibility
> > hacks. Changing
> >     E1 / E2
> > to
> >     E1 __oldstyle_divide__ E2
> > doesn't require deep parsing.
>
> The problem here is that / also is a word delimiter.
>
> so you have to replace a/b with a __oldstyle_divide_ b, inserting
> blanks around the operator.

Right.

> My way would be to let / be as it was, and to import // as a new
> operator that returns a float when dividing two integers who don't fit.

And my preference would be to change /, the sooner the better.

- Anders




From peter at halpin56.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 10:56:08 2001
From: peter at halpin56.freeserve.co.uk (Peter Halpin)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 07:56:08 -0700
Subject: Python2C Help
Message-ID: <7622b1d6.0108100656.2e837425@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've just tryed to use Python2C to make C files from python.
The C files compile but when I run them I get this error:

Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what is going on?

----

Pete


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 18 20:30:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:30:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Method and getattr wierdness in a C extension
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108172345370.4479-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

I'm building a Python 1.5 module for libxml2 (not so much for public
consumption so much as to teach myself both libxml2 and Python extensions) and
I'm coming across something odd.

Here's the relevant C code:

---
typedef struct libxml_doc {
  PyObject_HEAD
  PyObject *dict;
  xmlDocPtr doc;
} xmlDocObject;

static PyObject *xmlPyParseFile(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  char *filename=NULL;
  xmlDocObject *doc;
  xmlDocPtr tree;

  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &filename)) return NULL;
  Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
  tree=xmlParseFile(filename);
  Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
  if (tree==NULL)
  {
    return NULL;
  };
  doc=xmlDoc_new(tree);
  return ((PyObject *)doc);
};

static struct PyMethodDef libxml_methods[]=
{
  {"ParseFile", xmlPyParseFile, METH_VARARGS},
  {NULL, NULL}
};

static xmlDocObject *xmlDoc_new(xmlDocPtr doc)
{
  xmlDocObject *result=PyObject_NEW(xmlDocObject, &xmlDoc_Type);
  PyObject *dict=NULL, *name=NULL;

  if (result==NULL)
    return NULL;
  dict=PyDict_New();
  if (dict==NULL)
  {
    Py_XDECREF(result);
    return NULL;
  };
  PyDict_SetItemString(dict, "...", (PyObject *)<someobj>);
    ...  // Not important

  result->doc=doc;
  result->dict=dict;
  return result;
};

static PyObject *xmlDoc_copy(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  xmlDocObject *old=(xmlDocObject *)self;
  xmlDocObject *doc=NULL;

  PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "");
  doc=PyObject_NEW(xmlDocObject, &xmlDoc_Type);
  doc->doc=xmlCopyDoc(old->doc, 1);
  doc->dict=PyDict_New();
  return (PyObject *)doc;
};

static PyMethodDef xmlDoc_methods[]=
{
  {"copy", xmlDoc_copy, METH_VARARGS},
  {NULL, NULL}
};

static int xmlDoc_print(PyObject *self, FILE *fp, int flags)
{
  xmlDocObject *doc=(xmlDocObject *)self;
  xmlChar *out=NULL;

  if (flags & Py_PRINT_RAW)
  {
    out=xmlDoc_Dump(doc->doc);
    fprintf(fp, out);
  }
  else
  {
    fprintf(fp, "<xmlDocument at %lx>", (long int)self);
  };
  return 0;
};

static PyObject *xmlDoc_getattr(PyObject *self, char *name)
{
  PyObject *result=NULL;

  result=Py_FindMethod(xmlDoc_methods, self, name);
  return result;
};

static void xmlDoc_dealloc(PyObject *self)
{
  xmlFreeDoc(((xmlDocObject *)self)->doc);
  Py_XDECREF(((xmlDocObject *)self)->dict);
  PyMem_DEL(self);
};

static PyTypeObject xmlDoc_Type=
{
  PyObject_HEAD_INIT(NULL)
  0,
  "xmlDocument",
  sizeof(xmlDocObject),
  0,
  xmlDoc_dealloc,     /* dealloc      */
  xmlDoc_print,       /* print        */
  xmlDoc_getattr,     /* getattr      */
  0,                  /* setattr      */
   ...
};

void initlibxml(void)
{
  PyObject *module, *dict, *str;

  xmlDoc_Type.ob_type=&PyType_Type;

  module=Py_InitModule("libxml", libxml_methods);
  dict=PyModule_GetDict(module);

  if (PyDict_SetItemString(dict, "xmlDocumentType", (PyObject *)
        &xmlDoc_Type))
    Py_FatalError("Cannot add to libxml dictionary");
};
---

Here's the python script I used to test it:

---
#! /usr/bin/python1.5 -i

import libxml

doc=libxml.ParseFile('<somefile>')
---

Here's what I'm getting at the prompt:

---
>>> doc.copy(123)
<xmlDocument at 80f4fc0>
>>> doc.copy(123)
TypeError: function requires exactly 0 arguments; 1 given
>>> doc.copy(123)
<xmlDocument at 80eac00>
>>> doc.copy(123)
TypeError: function requires exactly 0 arguments; 1 given
>>>
---

Why is it alternating between working and not working?

The actual code is larger and more complete than what's given above; if you
need to see more, just ask.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 16 04:44:48 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:44:48 +0200
Subject: string operations (ctrl characters)
Message-ID: <3B81F9CC@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "DR" <dean at valtronics.co.za> =====

>So all I'm left with is [ and . I tried to do the same for those
>characters, but I can't seem to get rid of them.
>
>        test15 = string.replace(test14,"\\",'')
>        test16 = string.replace(test15,"[[" ,'')
>
>The above attempts didn't work.
>
>If anyone could offer any advice or suggest a better way of doing this, it
>would be great.  Is there a better way of doing this ??

There are several approaches to this. I'm no regex expert, but I figure there 
should be a way to dream up a regular expression that removes, or replaces, 
characters with a certain value.

You don't *need* regexen for this, though. One approach could be, scanning the 
string for "acceptable" characters, and replacing anything else with some 
default character, or removing it.

Some untested sample code:

ALLOWED = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
# etc... The allowed characters.

newstring = ""
for c in weirdstring:
    if c in ALLOWED:
        newstring += c
    else:
        # do nothing if you want to remove unwanted characters, or add
        # something like ' newstring += " " ' for replacing, etc.

I don't know if speed is an issue... this could be slow(ish)... although 
there's probably room for optimization.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl  Wed Aug  8 05:54:10 2001
From: piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:54:10 +0200
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
Message-ID: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>

Hi

I'v created dictionary named d={}. Its structure is like this: 

{key, [list]} 

I'd like to print all values stored in  'd'. What is the easiest way to do
it?

Regards
Piotr Legiecki


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 16:58:48 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:58:48 -0400
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <7xd75h907c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEFMLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin, presumably asking about word-addressed machines]
> What machines are those anyway?

Generally high-performance number-crunchers, like several flavors of Cray
and the original Alphas.

> How do they deal with byte arrays?

Painfully.  Here's a paper about Alphas:

   http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJO08/DTJO08SC.TXT

When C was first implemented on Crays, "byte arrays" were purely a software
fiction.  By convention, we stored a 3-bit byte offset (64-bit words were
the smallest addressable unit) in the *high*-order bits of a pointer.  The
compiler then generated oceans of shift and mask operations accordingly.
short, int and long were all 64 bits.  This was a good test to see whether
programmers had read the C std <wink>.




From ctavares at develop.com  Thu Aug 23 04:05:04 2001
From: ctavares at develop.com (Chris Tavares)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:05:04 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998473353.18926.python-list@python.org> <9m01um01dcc@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <QO2h7.4623$XY4.463031@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:9m01um01dcc at enews3.newsguy.com...
[... snip ...]
> unpredictable time.  People used to RC's strengths have
> a hard time adapting to the "whenever I get around to
> it" attitude of mark-and-sweep GC -- witness the furious
> debate among long-time COM programmers when they learned
> that .NET would NOT use reference counting but rather
> mark-and-sweep (so, no guaranteed finalization time).
>

Actually, .NET uses a generational copying collector, NOT a mark & sweep
collector. Just to be pedantic. :-)

-Chris




From jhg at galdon.com  Mon Aug 13 05:16:34 2001
From: jhg at galdon.com (Juan Huertas)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:16:34 +0200
Subject: Reading Tapes
Message-ID: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>

Hi all.

My pc has a DAT tape (Windows 2000 Tape0) and i need to read the content of
a tape with unix format, using low level I'ts possible to read from the
device inside python?.

I try:

dat=open('\\.\Tape0','rb').read()

but the system does not open the file (ilegal file name: \\.\Tape0).

Un saludo.







From tim at zope.com  Thu Aug  9 18:51:38 2001
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:51:38 -0400
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
In-Reply-To: <3B7307EB.297F2EF3@sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEOJCEAA.tim@zope.com>

[gods1child]
> All this heated discussion over floats has led me to wonder if we need
> to lighten up a little bit and celebrate the fact that were close to
> 100,000 (94,100 as of this moment) messages on this news-group

[Garry Hodgson]
> 94,100?  is that cumulative, or just today?
> it sometimes seems like the latter.

Actually, I think it was just that week.

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/

has over 150,000 c.l.py msgs archived, and my logs show that I read 50,317
before 2001 began.  Unfortunately, I only generate summary reports once per
year, so I can't yet tell you how many I've read since then.

but-millions-seems-a-good-guess-ly y'rs  - tim




From cliechti at mails.ch  Wed Aug 15 23:21:01 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 05:21:01 +0200
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <3B7B4D56.81E84D37@bcm.tmc.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns90FF36998A34Dcliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

[posted and mailed]

Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu> wrote in
news:3B7B4D56.81E84D37 at bcm.tmc.edu: 
>> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, cmd, argv) might work for you.
> 
> The job is a class method in python, not a standalone program,
> os.spawnv might not work with this situation. is it still doable with
> other techniques (fork, thread ?)

the module threading gives an easy to use interface for threads.

t = threading.Thread( target=bgjob_fu, args=("arguments",) )
t.start()

you can't "exit" the gui by terminating python but you can close all
windows and free memory by deleting unused objects with "del" and then 
after all that use

t.join()

to wait for the background job to finish.


-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From asencio at mitre.org  Fri Aug 17 10:26:11 2001
From: asencio at mitre.org (Angel Asencio)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:26:11 -0400
Subject: Disabling Cache?
Message-ID: <3B7D2983.77C3CBE3@mitre.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010817/482066e6/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: asencio.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 317 bytes
Desc: Card for Angel Asencio
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010817/482066e6/attachment.vcf>

From itamarst at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 15:40:41 2001
From: itamarst at yahoo.com (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:40:41 -0400
Subject: ANN: Profiler for multi-threaded applications
Message-ID: <3B8D4539.9030308@yahoo.com>

Hi,

I've written a profiler for multi-threaded python programs, based on 
some posts I've read suggesting using a profiler object for each thread. 
When the program is done the profiler merges the results from all the 
profiler objects, and prints results.

Usage:
$ python threaded_profile.py yourapp.py

URL:
http://itamarst.org/downloads/threaded_profile.py

I'm not sure the results are in any way accurate, but it has helped me 
finding at least one hot spot I wouldn't have been able to find 
otherwise, since it was in a thread (apparently opening files is *very* 
expensive.)

Comments are welcome!

-- 
Itamar Shtull-Trauring
http://itamarst.org




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Aug 22 20:52:45 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:52:45 +1000
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EF8@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> I'm not a python programmer, but I have evaluated the 
> language relative to
> java (yes, I'm a java programmer, and you can assume my 
> opinion on python is
> suspect). No doubt I'm about to be beat up by all your phyton 
> programmers
> for this, but I'm a glutton for punishment. Please, no four 
> letter words or
> verbal attacks about my mother.  Here goes:

I'm not going to beat up on you. All I can do is laugh.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I'm afraid you couldn't be further from the truth about many of your points.
Especially J(P)ython of which you got the intention *completely* wrong ...

I think you will find that the majority of Python programmers are familiar
with Java, C and C++, plus usually a number of other more esoteric languages
(I myself have forgotten around 20 languages I've used over time). Python
tends to draw in people who have used other languages, and appreciate the
(usually) clean and consistent design of Python.

Tim Delaney



From dino1_nospam at ms1.hinet.net  Fri Aug 10 05:51:10 2001
From: dino1_nospam at ms1.hinet.net (Dino Hsu)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:51:10 +0800
Subject: the usage of pickle
Message-ID: <egb7nt4ba7iusumbjsd8thqhd0j943c1qf@4ax.com>

Dear all,

When I try pickle.dump(...), it always fails, anyone show me how?
Thanks in advance.

>>> def f():
	return '123456'
>>> f
<function f at 01215F2C>

>>> pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#60>", line 1, in ?
    pickle.dump(f,'test.txt')
  File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 939, in dump
    Pickler(file, bin).dump(object)
  File "c:\python21\lib\pickle.py", line 104, in __init__
    self.write = file.write
AttributeError: write

Dino



From jaif at mindspring.com  Mon Aug 20 11:06:08 2001
From: jaif at mindspring.com (Jeff Cohen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:06:08 -0400
Subject: Lists into lists
References: <mailman.998319210.23592.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lr90v$mr5$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Thanks for the quick assists from you and everyone else who answered.

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998319210.23592.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Jeff Cohen wrote:
>
> > I'm just learning python, so sorry if this is obvious but I didn't see
it in
> > the book or a few tutorials I found.
> >
> > I want to insert a copy of a list into a list like so:
> >
> > >>x=[1,2,3]
> > >>y=[4,5,6]
> > >> Magic step goes here
> > >>x
> > [[4,5,6],1,2,3]
> >
> > Now, I did this with
> >
> > >>x.insert(0,y)
> >
> > However, when I manipulate y, I end up changing x as well.
> >
> > With
> >
> > >>x[:0]=y
> > >>x
> > [4,5,6,1,2,3]
> >
> > Which isn't exactly it either.
> >
> > Any help there?
>
> Inserting y into x just inserts a reference to y into x. You need to
insert
> y[:] into x, which then makes a copy of y.
>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>




From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug  1 19:34:12 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:34:12 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b68914a.1022334829@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:25:29 +0200, tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer) wrote:
[...name summary ...]
>I'm glad that nobody proposed `class_` yet :-)
>
>As the first argument can immediately signify a class method if the
>same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an uncontentious
>name popped up. =
>
how about 'ego' ?
That would remind of self, but be different.



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Aug  2 10:51:04 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:51:04 -0500
Subject: urllib help
References: <3B68843C.997C4930@wi.mit.edu> <etdsnfbxrfu.fsf@opus.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B6968D8.E383713D@wi.mit.edu>

Sweet.  I discovered that 'cmd': 'Search' also works.  Now I just need
to figure out how to get more than one page back.  It turns out that
there was already an interface to this web page.  Download biopython
from biopython.org and import Bio.WWW.NCBI if anyone is interested.

Thanks Alex.  Since it looks like you are at MIT as well, I'll buy you a
beer sometime, or whatever else you prefer :)

Alex wrote:

> Try this:

< code snipped >

>
> --
> Alex Coventry (finger alex_coventry at mit.edu)

Brian Kelley
bkelley at wi.mit.edu
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 18:30:09 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:30:09 -0700
Subject: simple question
References: <b740d7ae.0108161220.22ab0377@posting.google.com> <3B7C38ED.3DD931B2@olen.to>
Message-ID: <3B7C4971.C554F65A@ccvcorp.com>

Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:

> Bignose3 wrote:
> >
> > An explanation would be great to.  Not a complex program but you have
> > to start somewhere:)
>
> Add the global statement to __init__ achieve the result simply.
>

[trimming code examples]

And the explanation has to do with Python's scoping and name-binding rules.

Python has several levels of scoping--local, global, and builtin.  When you
refer to a variable, the interpreter searches the local scope first.  If it
fails to find it there, it searches the global scope, and then the builtin
scope (and raises a NameException if it fails to find it at all).  You have
your NextID in the global scope.  When you, in __init__(), assign to
self.ID, there is no NextID in the local scope, so Python then checks the
global scope, where it finds NextID, so everything is dandy there.

However, whenever you assign to a variable name, Python always assumes that
that name should go into the local scope, unless specifically told
otherwise.  In the assignment line (NextID = NextID + 1), the right hand
side is created just as you'd expect, by looking up the (global) NextID and
adding one to it.  That result is then assigned to the name NextID --
*but*, since assignment defaults to local scope, you are creating a *new*,
local NextID.  If you used NextID again just after this, you'd be getting
the local version, not the global version.  However, you don't, and the
function exits, thus destroying the local scope and the local version of
NextID.  When you create your next object, you look up the global NextID
again--but that was never changed, so you end up with the same ID for each
object.

When you explicitly declare NextID to be global from within __init__(), as
suggested by Joonas, then Python knows that you do *not* want to create a
local variable of that name, and the assignment line *does* modify the
global version of NextID, so you get properly increasing ID numbers.

By the way, as of v2.0, Python has augmented assignment operators, so you
can write the assignment line as NextID += 1.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International







From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 23 21:50:32 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:50:32 +1200
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <kuitfe9xfm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <7xae0q2vu4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B85B2E8.8CCC38CA@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> We run bigger applications now than we did then.  Otherwise we wouldn't
> find ourselves buying so much dram.

We buy much more dram than we did back then. 
Otherwise we wouldn't find ourselves running 
such big applications. :-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Mon Aug 13 20:46:16 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:46:16 GMT
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Russell E. Owen wrote:

> They both work, so I think you'll do fine either way.
> 
> Here are some considerations. I have used Tk much more than Wx, so
> have much less to say about Wx. Contributions would be most
> welcome. 
> 
> Tk:
> + runs on more different platforms (e.g. Mac) than Wx and is more
> mature

I don't know all that much about Tkinter, but from what I've seen 
Tkinter programs are somewhat smaller than their wxPython counterparts. 
However, it seems that from wxPython you have more control over some 
things. Also, wxPython seems to have a richer set of controls and 
standard dialogs than Tkinter, presuming Fredrik Lundh's reference in 
his tutorial is anywhere near complete.



> + has a nice Canvas widget

>From what I've read, a Canvas is just something you can draw on. You 
can do that easily on a wxWindow by making a handler for paint-events: 
blitting images, writing text, drawing, you can do it all in such a 
handler. However, don't expect C++ speed from a Python paint-handler.


> + nice file event support for networking applications
>   (I don't know about this on Wx)

Actually, I don't even know what you mean by 'file event'.


> + tons of flexibility for button sizes, font sizes, etc.
"Me 2", states wxPython boldly.


> + lots of nice layout options
"Me 2", snickers wxPython knowingly.


> + lots of books are available on Tk, and at least one on Tkinter
"Ah, there you have me", sighs wxPython forlornly.

Considering the number of times people ask for a book on wxPython, this 
could be winner if someone were to write it. If I considered myself 
anywhere near an expert on the subject, (and had the time), I might 
feel tempted to do so. But I'm just a dabbler...


> - is fairly slow (you end up running a Tk interpreter as well as
> the Python interpreter)
> - has brain-dead support for copy and paste

That's something which wxPython knows how to handle. (Drag'n'Drop too, 
BTW.)


> - has somewhat clumsy mapping from Pyton to Tk. For instance a lot
> of times you end up with a Tk name that you have to then convert to
> a widget before you can do anything with it. I suspect much of this
> is because Tk is not object-oriented.
> - bizarre inconsistencies in Tk -- different widgets often have 
> different ways of doing the same things
> - lack of a nice multi-line text display widget (that the program
> can write to but users cannot alter the text); this is a famouse Tk
> FAQ, to which the answer is to (gag) enable updates (which means
> the user can manipulate the text), write your text, then disable
> updates again - some things are broken on the Mac (menus, file
> events) 
> 
> Wx:
> + Wx is reported to be much faster than Tk
> + Python is basically an equal partner to the C++ code, and Wx is 
> object-oriented, so the mapping appears to be nicer from Python to
> Wx 

> - Wx relies on unique ID numbers to describe events (gag)

Not really. Unique ID number are only needed if you want to call 
different event-handlers for the same event-type _from the same 
window_. Normally parent windows handle some of the events for/from 
their children, which usually controls (e.g. buttons). If those 
controls have the same ID number they have to share the same event 
handler(s). I think it is possible to determine the target window for 
an event without knowing the ID number, but that could be tricky for 
several reasons.

Having said that, wxPython will generate unique ID's for its window 
objects if you set those to -1 (often, that's the default value 
anyway), and it's dead easy to get the ID from a window.

A convenient (well, I use it) idiom would be something like this, as 
part of the __init__() function of the parent window:

   self.a_button = wxButton(self, -1, "Press Me")
   EVT_BUTTON(self, self.a_button.GetId(), self.OnClickEventFunction)

So, doing away with the IDs and associating the event handler directly 
with the button-reference would mean we could lose the '-1,' in the 
first line and the '.GetId()' in the second. Not a huge saving, 
although it would look cleaner. Furthermore, using duplicate ID numbers 
can sometimes be helpful: a toolbar-button, for instance, can be 
handled by a menu event handler if the IDs are the same.


> - no current Mac releases, though if you are willing to check code
> out of CVS you can probably get the Mac stuff running (depending on
> what day you check it out)
>
> o Wx includes a lot of tools that Python already has; I'm not sure
> how this overlap works out

To be honest, I'm not too sure Robin Dunn bothered to python-wrap all 
the wxWindows stuff for which there's already something in the Python 
library. I don't think it's a great issue, unless you specifically use 
wxPython as a rapid prototyping system for wxWindows.


> Also, if you care, Wx looks more like Windows, whereas Tk looks
> more like unix X.

WxWindows (and consequently wxPython) tries to get the look-and-feel of 
the platform it's running on, by using native widgets as much as 
possible. On Windows the native look-and-feel is excellent, that's 
certainly true.


> The Python 2.1 Bible, by Brueck and Tanner, (a very nice book) has
> a short chapter on WxPython which should get you going. It also has
> a short chapter on Tk, but it sounds as if you may be far enough
> along to not need that.

The best source of examples and a good place to pinch some code from is 
the wxPython demo.


Robert Amesz


From grante at visi.com  Tue Aug  7 14:08:47 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:08:47 GMT
Subject: Marketing Management
References: <mailman.997201271.7361.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n0boo.bsp.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <mailman.997201271.7361.python-list at python.org>, Sam Lo wrote:

> a) Explain the general orientation of your organization towards marketing,
> or your organization's overall attitudes and philosophies towards marketing.

 1) Customers cause problems.
 
 2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
 
Therefore:

 3) Marketing is evil.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Awright, which one of
                                  at               you hid my PENIS ENVY?
                               visi.com            


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 12:30:32 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:30:32 +0200
Subject: os.execl()
References: <mailman.998922460.15724.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mdsj902pjc@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998922460.15724.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> Oh man, you two are doing WAY too much work. Here's my version:
>
> ---
> #! /bin/bash
>
> for i in *.tar.gz; do
>   tar zxvf "$i";
> done
> ---
>
> or if you're running under DOS or Windows:
>
> ---
> @echo off
> for i in (*.tar.gz) do tar zxvf "%%i"
> ---
>
> Python is nice, but it's not always the best tool for certain tasks.

Except that it IS the best tool for MOST tasks -- e.g., this
one, if you need it to run under bash AND windows too:-).

import glob,os
for file in glob('*.tar.gz'):
    os.system("tar zxvf "+file)

There -- not substantially longer than either the bash or
bat examples, AND cross-platform too:-).


Alex





From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  9 16:13:36 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 16:13:36 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <etdk80drnyn.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Have a look at the __getstate__ and __setstate__ methods, described in
http://python.org/doc/lib/module-pickle.html

Alex.


From guido at python.org  Tue Aug 14 18:48:40 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:48:40 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lamme017m7@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cp4rradztq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Fortunately, Alex's message scrolled off my screen before I could
capture it, so I don't have to reply point-by-point. :-)

After talking to some more people and running an experiment
(converting Jeremy's compiler package to use the new class system), I
am convinced that both dynamic class features under attack recently
are important.  Making __dynamic__ the default slows things down by
about 25% for one particular benchmark (compiling the compiler with
itself), so I'll have to work on that.

I've also figured out the correct rule for allowing safe assignment to
__class__.  The underlying rule is that instances of the old and new
class have the same memory lay-out.  A necessary and sufficient
condition for this is (in our case) that the two classes have
instances of the same size, and that there is a common base class that
also has that same size.  In addition, the GC flag bits must be the
same.

Now I'm going to withdraw from Usenet again.  I prefer python-dev as a
platform for discussing language changes -- I get the same results
without being flamed, and I waste much less time.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 16:18:13 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:18:13 -0400
Subject: Setting file creation date
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108101828560.3677-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEADLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Fredrik Seehusen]
> How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
> creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?
>
> This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(

I expect you'll have to get the Python Win32 extensions (visit ActiveState's
web site), and use the SetFileTime() Win32 API function (which allows
changing all three times).

[Roman Suzi]
> ...
> Also I remember, Macintosh had file creation time stored,
> but Windows 9x store only two times (probably mtime and ctime).

No, Win9x beasts store all three.

> ...
> So, I wonder where creation date is used and how it survives
> archiving...

Windows archiving systems vary in what they do to the date stamps, and
that's a PITA.

Creation time is exactly what it sounds like <wink>.  When you *copy* a file
using native Windows functions, the creation time on the copy is set to the
current time, but the modified time is inherited as-is from the original.
This drives Unix weenies insane, but it's actually quite useful in its own
strange way <wink>.  Note that this implies it's quite possible on Windows
to see a file with a modification time older than its creation time --
creation does not imply modification.  Of course almost none of this is
documented clearly anywhere (that I know of, anyway).




From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 10:37:15 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:37:15 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B83E9E3@twigger.nl>
Message-ID: <3B6FFD1B.7080504@herts.ac.uk>

Thanks alot Hans,

that looks great, just gonna take a closer look in a minute. I have 
actually (I think) come up with the following solution, but it is 
recursive, and I am not sure I am comfortable with that :s

def comb(list, *pos):
    if not pos:
       pos = 0
   else:
       pos = pos[0]
   newList = []
   for each in list[pos]:
       if pos < len(list)-1:
           fromNext = comb(list, pos+1)
           for item in fromNext:
               temp = [each]
               for subitem in item:
                   temp.append(subitem)
               newList.append(temp)
       else:
           newList.append([each])
   return newList

combList = comb(list)

actually it is really great to see how you thought about the problem, 
cos I was really unable to think outside of the box so to speak..



cheers

blobby


Hans Nowak wrote:

>> ===== Original Message From Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> =====
>> I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;))
>> trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure
>> that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial
>> problem.
>> 
>> I have a nested list structure of the following format:
>> [[2, 3, 4, 5],
>>  [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
>>  [6, 2, 7, 4]
>>  ....
>>  ....
>> ]
>> 
>> I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from
>> each nested list
>> 
>> i.e
>> [2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
>> [2, 4, 2, ..., ...]
>> 
>> If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code
>> it as a series of nested for loops:
>> 
>> i.e
>> 
>> for i in list[0]:
>> 	for j in list[1]:
>> 		for k in list[2]:
>> 				comb = [i, j, k]
>> 
>> but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the
>> outermost list is going to be variable in length.
>> 
>> If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and
>> give you all the profit ;)
> 
> 
> I already have a boss, but this code may do what you want:
> 
> #--- begin code ---
> 
> # a test list
> lst = [
>  [1, 2, 3, 4],
>  [5, 6, 7, 8, 9],
>  [10, 11],
>  [12, 13, 14]
> ]
> 
> def permute2(list1, list2):
>     """ Helper function to get the combinations of two lists. """
>     permutations = []
>     for i in list1:
>         for j in list2:
>             permutations.append([i, j])
>     return permutations
> 
> def permute(lst):
>     permutations = permute2(lst[0], lst[1])
>     for ls in lst[2:]:
>         p = []
>         # add this list to the permutations list
>         for item in ls:
>             for perm in permutations:
>                 p.append(perm + [item])
>         permutations = p
>     return permutations
>     
> z = permute(lst)
> print z
> # check length
> assert len(z) == reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, map(len, lst))
> 
> # test another
> lst = [
>     ["a", "b"], ["c", "d", "e"]
> ]
> print permute(lst)
> 
> #--- end code ---
> 
> Disclaimer: Only roughly tested. I don't know if the term "permutations" is 
> correct, aside...
> 
> HTH,
> 
> --Hans Nowak
> 
> 
> 
> 




From Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com  Wed Aug  1 18:56:24 2001
From: Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com (Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:56:24 -0500
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <008A9724.N22121@rsmi.com>

>> Kind of hopeless.

>I don't know what you want, Arthur.  Guido doesn't actually have a time
>machine, and he's not actually a dictator, and the world isn't actually
>perfect in every respect, and Guido's not actually gutless enough to let a
>design error stand forever just to avoid getting flamed.

My posts follows Alex's,  which expresses sentiment quite similar to what I
had expressed early on.  I do not question Guido's design genius.  I do
question
his ability to express his rationale.  I very much dislike the  the "ideology" 

behind 
IDLE as expressed in the Linux Journal CP4E article, and then end up thinking 
quite highly of IDLE.  Go figure.

Leave it to me and we will have Python evoling back into C, so that I can
assure myself we're not coddling anybody. 

A C implementation of C.  Good plan,  Art.

>> Kind of hopeless.

>I don't know what you want, Arthur.  Guido doesn't actually have a time
>machine, and he's not actually a dictator, and the world isn't actually
>perfect in every respect, and Guido's not actually gutless enough to let a
>design error stand forever just to avoid getting flamed.

What can I say.  

Guido accuses me of flamebaiting. 

Paul had written -

> I feel that most of the "noise" on this issue could have been avoided
> had the intentions of the developers been communicated clearly from
> the start.

Gudio responds -

>Much of the initial communication was done by people who hadn't read
>the PEP and misstated the plan (e.g. omitting the transitional period
>or the separate int division operator).  Then others started
>complaining about the poorly laid-out plan -- again without reading
>the PEP.  Typical usenet style -- I don't know how we could have
>avoided this.

That is flamebait, as far as I am concerned.

Unfortunately, as I always will, I took it.

Suffice it to say that one doesn't need to be a usenet crank to 
suggest that things could have been handled better and one would hope
that Guido might understand that at this point. 

>> I've stopped needing to like him.

>What does affection have to do with any of this?

Even better question . What's it to *me*. 

I'll have to get back to you.

ART




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Aug  7 01:04:16 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 01:04:16 -0400
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com> <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com> <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com> <9kkqlq$12g5$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <uhevkxxyn.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis) writes:

>  Someone in this thread mentioned the convenience of '?-completion'
>  on *switches* as well as filenames.  Of course in the latest versions
>  of the popular UNIX/Linux shells there is support for "programmable 
>  completion."  However, it would be difficult to make that work with
>  arbitrary command arguments.  I suppose one could emulate it with 
>  a couple of features:

Well, in the system I've used (TOPS-20 native, or the CCMD C library
from Columbia for *nix systems), there's a fundamental difference to
how parsing is handled from something like getopt - or even readline.
Instead of handling a complete set of parse tables to a single parser
entry point, the code to handle parsing was itself broken out into
sections and dynamically executed as a line was parsed (or reparsed).
So not only could you build dynamic tables just prior to parsing
something (so you could vary the options for example), but some
automatic parsing functions would dynamically construct possible
values - such as that used for a filename.

>  	For each (known) command: 
> 		Build a list of known switches

In effect, rather than doing the above, you could set it up to only
build switch completions in a lazy fashion - only if the user started
to enter an option, or used a portion of a command that triggered a
particular set of options.  The code would be called as the parser
traversed that portion of the command line.

Now, in reality, most of the parsing functions did have pre-existing
static definitions, but they still only fed those definitions to the
parser a bit at a time, as those functions invoked the parser when
previous parsing reached them.

Definitely more work in terms of writing parsing code, but the end
result was probably the best interactive command line I can think of.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug  2 22:55:43 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:55:43 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996714310.2991.python-list@python.org> <3b68b5ce.1031682601@wa.news.verio.net> <9kbjov02pi7@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b6a0b4b.1119104206@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:15:10 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
>news:3b68b5ce.1031682601 at wa.news.verio.net...
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:04:16 -0700, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com>
>wrote:
>> [...]
>> OT
>> >"/". Life goes on. Get used to it. I'm told Presidents of the United
>> >States make mistakes and life goes on then too. I have a strong feeling
>> >that if either Python or a country was run by consensus, there would be
>> >more mistakes not less.
>> Hopefully the country (US) is run by consensus of our representatives, but
>
>It's not supposed to be: a simple majority is sufficient when
>several equal representatives are involved (House, Senate,
>Supreme Court) -- the minority does get a voice (dissenting
>opinion, in the SC's case, for example) but while consensus
>may be sought it's surely not required.
>
Sorry for my abuse of a word with literal meaning ;-/
I meant in the looser sense of general agreement
(in deciding by majority ;-), not unanimity.
You are of course right.

Though "full" is redundant, I stand by my main point:

"I just pray that they never get to where they have a full
consensus that they want to reverse an old decision, and can not do it,
even with all the might of the country at their disposal."




From tbryan at python.net  Sat Aug  4 22:09:03 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 07:09:03 +0500
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kj96l$vub$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Lang wrote:

> How do I call the script, run the commit,
> and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?

I don't remember how/when I figured this out.  I either saw it in a 
script used by Mark Peskin for PERCEPS, or I looked it up in the 
HTTP RFC.  

------ simple_redirect.py ------
#!/usr/bin/env python
"""A simple CGI script that sends users elsewhere"""
print "Location: http://www.python.org/\n\n"

------

I'm not really a Web programmer, so it may be that some browsers 
don't respect the Location header.  In that case, you might want to 
use something more like this in an actual application unless you 
know that the simple_redirect.py works for all browsers.

------ redirect.py ------
#!/usr/bin/env python
"""A fairly simple CGI script that sends users elsewhere""" 

print "Content-Type: text/html"  # Just in case the redirect doesn't work.
print "Location: http://www.python.org/\n\n"  # redirect
# Just in case the redirect doesn't work.
print """<html>
<head>
    <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;url=http://www.python.org/">
    <title>Redirect</title>
</head>
<body>
    Return to <a href="http://www.python.org/">Python web site</a>
</body>
</html>
"""
------

sending-users-elsewhere-for-2-years-ly yours
---Tom



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Sat Aug 25 05:41:30 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 09:41:30 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <3b856114.272278696@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oesma.g50.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:24:25 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> pisze:

> I.e.,
>    v[a:+=b]
> and
>    v[-=b:a]
> would be equivalent to
>    v[a:a+b]
> and
>    v[a-b:a]
> IOW,
>    op=slice_parameter
> implies
>    slice_parameter_value_to_use = the_other_slice_parameter op slice_parameter

Since a += b is almost equivalent to a = a+b, a:a+b should be spelled a+:b.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From t-weh at online.no  Mon Aug 27 18:24:24 2001
From: t-weh at online.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:24:24 +0200
Subject: XML-RPC/SOAP vs. plain-old URLs
Message-ID: <09Ai7.3369$1T5.45479@news1.oke.nextra.no>

Just read
http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1113/byt20010816s0002/0820_udell.html and it
got me thinking. I'm in the middle of a project using alot of XML-RPC for
communication between servers. The article clearly shows that there's a
significant overhead using XML-RPC ( guess much of the same would apply to
SOAP implementations too ).

( I guess you have to read the article to understand my question, but please
do; it's a good article. )

Could somebody point out limitations when using URLs instead of XML-RPC ?
Datatypes? Data structures?

Will the overhead of XML-RPC/SOAP make them slower than plain URLs? With
urllib and friends it's easy to use HTTP to send and receive data, but what
are the downsides? The simplicity of urls and availability of modules/libs
should make it a much easier to implement than learning XML-RPC/SOAP
properly. Much of the point of XML-RPC/SOAP is communication between
different systems, but parsing posted http-data is allready available in
almost any programming language on every major platform, so why bother with
these new things, bringing lots of overhead and much steeper learning
curves?

I guess the main limitation is what you can express with things like
"arg1=1&arg2=2&command=test" etc. but in most cases it would suffice. And
implementing a minimal structure for expressing more complex data-structures
shouldn't have be as verbose as shown in the article mentioned earlier
either. Perhaps I'm just rambling on here. I'll probably keep on using
XML-RPC for some stuff, but I'll definitly look into creating a module for
writing/reading simple datastructures using a simpler standard than xml.

( One python-only solution could be to pickle python objects, perhaps
compress them using zlib and pass them as raw data using HTTP. Probably
smaller than xml, but python only. At least for communication between
python-based systems this should work. Encryption would be easy to add,
user/password restriction to objects ( it's allready in HTTP ) too and one
could get digitally signed objects with little effort. Has anybody done
something like this allready? )

I'm not bashing XML-RPC/SOAP, I'm using those technologies myself, but
they've gotten alot of attention lately and appear as the saving angel for
platform- and language-independant information exchange in lots of coming
attractions, like MS .Net, Mono etc. Perhaps we overlooked the simple and
obvious?

The bottom line: what about the speed and limitations to what can be
expressed using the POST-command with HTTP, - using modules available in
Python?? Both just-python and language-independant solutions are welcome.

Any ideas, flames or comments?

Thomas





From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Mon Aug 27 07:13:50 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:13:50 +0200
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs - Summary (Long)
References: <270c68fe.0108270158.616fa221@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8a2afb$0$296$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Alan Green wrote:

> 
> Boudewijn Rempt has an article about Python IDEs at InformIT
> (<http://www.informit.com> Search for 'Boudewijn'. Free registration
> required.) It was posted last November, and things seem to have moved on a
> bit since then. Never-the-less, a good starting point if you want to know
> what to look for in
> an IDE.  Boudewijn said he will be updating the article "shortly". There
> were 4 products reviewed last time, will there be 14 products reviewed
> this time? <cheeky grin>
> 

No, just two - Komodo and BlackAdder. It will be published at 9/10 (don't 
know whether September 10th or October 9th was meant) - but bear in mind
that the article was written in May...

As for my personal preferences - since I was forced to learn XEmacs around
March, I've grown accustomed to it, and use it for Python, C++, Java, sgml
and html editing... And I do start Qt Designer from XEmacs to design dialog
windows ;-).

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Aug 25 10:47:46 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 07:47:46 -0700
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3b8449c4.200774979@wa.news.verio.net> <9m1n6p$bs0c8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9m8dqi$fdv$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9m1n6p$bs0c8$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>,
Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>
>new mantra:  If you want to know the right way to do something, post a
>response showing the wrong way to do it.  - Always works.  ;-)

Yes.  Here's my standard quote on the subject:

    The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
    to post the wrong information.  --Aahz

Some people refer to that as Aahz's Law.  ;-)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From ssmith619 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  1 20:49:31 2001
From: ssmith619 at hotmail.com (Stephen Smith)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 17:49:31 -0700
Subject: Converting from strings to integers
Message-ID: <e66c2e45.0108011649.71a4ba3e@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm new to Python and am just trying out an example of file I/O. 
I am trying to read a file (successfully), and then multiply a value
by another static variable.  The value from the file was outputting in
the 'string' format, and I need to convert it into an integer.  I
tried using the int(x) command, but it doesn't seem to care, it is
still in the string format.  The number is a plain integer (87, for
example).  How on earth do you convert the value to an integer? 
Thanks for your help!


From not.this at seebelow.org  Sat Aug  4 00:58:50 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:58:50 -0500
Subject: counting occurrences
References: <9kf2l60uic@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn9mm9pp.6dm.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <3B6B810A.A5502D79@seebelow.org>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> 
> On 3 Aug 2001 13:47:34 -0700, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
> >This then usually leads to a need to "sort keys by value"--something like this:
> >
> >   itemlist = [(value, key) for (key, value) in counter.items()]
> >   itemlist.sort()
> >   itemlist.reverse()
> ...
> >For me, this sort of thing comes up so often that it qualifies as an "idiom".
> 
> So put it in a function.

I not sure that a function helps much unless I also make a module for
the function to permanently live in--and this is one of those things
that seems too simple to make into a module, yet too complicated to type
repeatedly.  (Hard to please, ain't I?<wink>)

> >...But, among
> >other things, my friend (who has been using Python for a *long* time) said
> >that he has never wanted such a thing, because he doesn't see counting
> >occurrences "as a dictionary operation".
> >
> >So how do you think he does it?
> 
> Here's how I would probably do it:
> 
> def occurrences(pred, seq):
>     # (t -> Boolean) -> [t] -> [(Int, t)]
>     d = {}
>     for elt in seq:
>         if pred(elt):
>             d[elt] = d.get(elt, 0) + 1
>     a = [ (v, k) for (k, v) in d.items() ]
>     a.sort()
>     a.reverse()
>     return a

Aside from being more neatly packaged, that's really about the same as
mine.  Specifically, it's still "a dictionary operation".

I guess I can't think of any easier way to do this in Python than as to
use dictionaries--in one form or another.

thanks-anyway-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From rupe at metro.yak.net  Wed Aug 15 15:24:13 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:24:13 -0700
Subject: eof?
References: <mailman.997883532.20811.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108151124.14bc63e8@posting.google.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in message news:<mailman.997883532.20811.python-list at python.org>...
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > "Dietmar Lang" <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message
> > news:3B7A4C7C.CF1A3C3A at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de...
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> > > >
> > > >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
> > > >         process(line)
> > >
> > > Is xreadlines something I missed or is it a misspelled readlines?
> > 
> > You missed the introduction of xreadlines, which satisfies
> > exactly this objection.  xreadlines is to readlines like xrange
> > is to range: it produces its sequence a little at a time (you
> > can control the buffersize used if you want) rather than
> > making it all in memory at one time, and therefore it may
> > be more general if you may need to process sequences that
> > are very large (readlines is probably going to be faster if the
> > file isn't that large compared to available memory, though).
> 
> And in 2.2, file objects can automatically return an iterator 
> in the context of a for loop, so you can just say:
> 
> 	for line in open( filename ):
> 		process(line)
> 
> -- Steve Majewski

Interesting...

I was aware of the readlines() limitation, but I'm wondering how
xreadlines() differs from using something like for line in
fileinput.input([file]): process(line), which I've been using instead
of readlines()?

Any appreciable performance or mem usage differences here?

Thanks,

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net:8080


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Aug  8 14:25:42 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 14:25:42 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
In-Reply-To: <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
	<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org>
	<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <oqae1al87t.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

> > Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> > > About that one, it always saddened me a little bit that I may not write:
> > >
> > >         if x in 1, 2, 3:
> > >             pass
> > >
> > > while I can write:
> > >
> > >         for x in 1, 2, 3:
> > >             pass

> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> > I would never have thought to write either of these.

Really?  You write parentheses all the time?

Whenever language I use, I try to avoid abusing parentheses, as using them
often leaves me with the bad feeling I do not know the language enough,
and that I write it fuzzily, adding parentheses "just in case"... :-)

Of course, for many languages, parentheses could be effectively used to
increase legibility.  But for marking tuples, Python does not need them
in most cases, it may be more noisy than useful having them to mark tuples
when it is not required to do so.  Python sources are cleaner without such
spurious parentheses, and it is a good habit learning to avoid them.

There is one case, however, where using parentheses with tuples is worth
doing, and this is for long lists of tuple elements spanning more than one
line.  Parentheses combined with proper indenting help the eye at catching
the overall structure.  For short tuples that fit on a line, parentheses are
overkill to me.

[Alex Martelli]

> I fully agree, so I just submitted a feature request to sourceforge --
> hopefully one doesn't have to write a PEP for _this_ sort of stuff?-)

Thanks a lot for the attempt.  I'm not sure how it will go.  In:

    for x in 1, 2, 3:
        pass

the `in' is nothing more than a mandated keyword.  But with:

    if x in 1, 2, 3:
        pass

the `in' is an operator, and as such, has its priority relative to a comma.
It might not be easy adjusting this without breaking anything.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From jparlar at home.com  Mon Aug 20 11:27:58 2001
From: jparlar at home.com (Jay Parlar)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:27:58 GMT
Subject: MSHTML
References: <mailman.998265329.9432.python-list@python.org> <Xns9103A787E553Ercamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1103_998320974@jparlar>

> >
> > My question: Is there any method to supress all the other IE stuff
> > so I can essentially use MSHTML as a pure replacement to
> > HTMLParser? 
> 
> All that trouble just to get at the plain text of HTML-documents? That 
> sounds a bit over the top to me. The only possibe reason I can think of 
> to justify it is if Javascript or VBScript issues document.write()'s or 
> modifies  some part of the DOM directly. (That might also have 
> something to do with why the thing crashes every now and again: perhaps 
> concurrent access to the DOM tree isn't too reliable. Perhaps there's a 
> property which you can query to check if the document is fully loaded 
> and processed.)

Hehe, I know, it does sound like a lot of trouble just to get at a the plain text. The thing is, while HTMLParser will do 
an adequate job, I don't feel right presenting my employer with an "adequate product". I'm sure that having Dr. David 
Parnas as the head of my department in school has something to do with it, but I just don't want to put on my name on 
something until I really believe it's done and ready to go.

> I am afraid I don't know how to suppress all that IE stuff, but I 
> presume that at least for some of those nag-messages properties can be 
> set to get rid of those, along with other security-related settings. 
> You really need to get some documentation about the HTML COM object, I 
> guess searching the MSDN site would be a good place to start. But I'd 
> be willing to bet you can't get rid of all unwanted behaviour.

Well, if you've ever tried searching the MSDN site, you'll know why I tried asking the list first ;-) I will go back and look 
some more though. I think I'll try the Delphi-webbrowser list as well, as this problem is more the domain of those folks 
than a Python problem.
 
> Alternatively, why not run an HTML file through W3C's Tidy first, that 
> will get rid of most of the errors (providing it doesn't get too 
> confused) and continue to use Python's HTML (or SGML) parser. That 
> would seem like a much more robust (and portable) scheme.

That sounds like a good idea, but one of the reasons we tried out MSHTML in the first place was to try go get the 
whole thing running a bit faster. Currently, I have to parse over 400 documents, one right after another, in one go. 
HTMLParser was a bit slow for some of these documents, but MSHTML (when it works) seems to be faster.


> 
> Robert Amesz

Thanks for the suggestions,

Jay Parlar
----------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering III
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

"Though there are many paths
At the foot of the mountain
All those who reach the top
See the same moon."




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 09:01:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:01:45 +0200
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com> <3B7A4C7C.CF1A3C3A@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <9ldrqt025ev@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Dietmar Lang" <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message
news:3B7A4C7C.CF1A3C3A at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de...
>
> Hi,
>
> > There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> >
> >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
> >         process(line)
>
> Is xreadlines something I missed or is it a misspelled readlines?
> Because as far as I know readlines reads in the whole file into a list
> containing the lines, which might not be so practical if the file is
> waay big?

You missed the introduction of xreadlines, which satisfies
exactly this objection.  xreadlines is to readlines like xrange
is to range: it produces its sequence a little at a time (you
can control the buffersize used if you want) rather than
making it all in memory at one time, and therefore it may
be more general if you may need to process sequences that
are very large (readlines is probably going to be faster if the
file isn't that large compared to available memory, though).


Alex





From ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net  Wed Aug 15 17:50:17 2001
From: ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net (S11001001)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:50:17 -0500
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
References: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3B79B841.75CAA801@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <C4Ce7.162$SN.70743@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Well, I borrowed a book called--here's an innovative title--"Programming with
Python" from the library, and it basically just offered up a quick reference of
commands and a ton of source code. I found this annoying, more preferring the
approach in the Programming Bibles, and especially ASM83GURU, if anybody's
heard of that before. guru has got to be the greatest tutorial I've ever seen.

--
Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an
intellectual property sense to everything it touches.
     Steve Ballmer


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B79B841.75CAA801 at engcorp.com...
> S11001001 wrote:
> Not sure what you meant by "tutorial employing DESCRIPTION"





From timothy at timothyjordan.com  Wed Aug  8 15:40:19 2001
From: timothy at timothyjordan.com (Timothy Jordan)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 12:40:19 -0700
Subject: Macintosh localhost (127.0.0.1) connection problem
Message-ID: <35aa4c93.0108081140.6262905e@posting.google.com>

Platform: Apple Macintosh G3
OS: Mac OS 9.0

I can't seem to find a way to use python to connect the localhost
address on a Mac.  I've been using httplib.HTTP() to connect to the
host '127.0.0.1'.  When connecting, it crashes the system.  No error is 
displayed.  In addtion, I added a hosts file through the TCP/IP control
panel containing "localhost A 127.0.0.1".  Internet Explorer can
connect to 'http://localhost' properly but python returns 'error: host not 
found'.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
-Timothy Jordan


From d98aron at dtek.chalmers.se  Wed Aug 29 10:34:01 2001
From: d98aron at dtek.chalmers.se (Fredrik Aronsson)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 14:34:01 GMT
Subject: privacy in Python
References: <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9miugp$boq$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>

In article <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0 at posting.google.com>,
	ens_z at yahoo.com (Ens) writes:
> class cls:
> 	def f(self, a, b):
> 		print a+b
> 	__p=12
> 
> obj=cls()
> fun=obj.f
> print fun.im_self._cls__p
> 
> 12
> 
> I need that '__p' exactly be private.

-- 

You mean private as in cannot be accessed outside the class?
In that case I don't think it's possible.
(I don't thinks it is even possible in c++... you can always get the variable 
by raw access to memory if needed)

/Fredrik


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Aug 21 20:43:33 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:43:33 +0100
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...)
References: <mailman.998458540.11570.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lvnv3$1g9$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Christian Tanzer:
> I'd rather use:
>
>    try:
>        somemodule.func(p1, p2, p3)
>    except somemodule.Error_foo, msg :
>        print msg
>        ...
>    except somemodule.Error_bar, msg :
>        ...
>    ### no need for raise anymore

Turns out that in my code that this is rare.  Modules only need
at most a couple of different exceptions.

Plus, there are some times where it's hard to make a subclass
for each exception.  Consider the IOError exceptions raised
by open.  Replacing the errno by a subclass for each value
(and how many values are there?) makes things less readable, IMHO.

But you did say "rather use:", which I'll expand to "rather use,
when it makes sense:" :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From rob at hooft.net  Mon Aug 20 05:07:41 2001
From: rob at hooft.net (Rob Hooft)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:07:41 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com> <mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org> <YTzPNDAvATe7EwXf@gol.com>
Message-ID: <m2hev3nlpe.fsf@hooft.net>

>>>>> "IP" == Ian Parker <parker at gol.com> writes:

 IP> With script plus a little surrounding verbiage, my possibly
 IP> affected 13 of 19 files scanned came up as:

 IP> "19 .py files scanned, 4 affected with 9 instances of the
 IP> division operator."

You're so lucky! 

no203[105]nonius%3% python ~/finddiv.py **/*.py | wc
   1328    3883  112957
no203[106]nonius%3% echo **/*.py | wc
      1     304    6159

i.e. 1328 divisions in 304 python files.....

 IP> Now that is much more reasonable, but it is still almost 25% of
 IP> the modules, and I still, if I understand correctly, need to
 IP> decide which ones should be integer division.

Exactly :-(

Rob
-- 
=====   rob at hooft.net                 http://www.hooft.net/people/rob/  =====
=====   R&D, Bruker Nonius BV, Delft  http://www.nonius.nl/             =====
===== PGPid 0xFA19277D ================================= Use Linux! =========


From syt at pegasus.logilab.fr  Wed Aug 22 03:47:56 2001
From: syt at pegasus.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:47:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>

On 21 Aug 2001, Michael Williams <michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>I'm an undergraduate doing a relatively simple bit of functional
>programming, looking at the behaviour of Lorenz attractors. My
>department recommends (or uses as standard) Pascal. I'd rather avoid
>this, and Python is something I've been looking into.
>
>(Amongst other things!) what I want to do is multiply an array of
>floating points numbers with a float elementwise, i.e.
>
>>>> [1.0, 2.0, 3.0] * 4.0
>[4.0, 8.0, 12.0]
>

IMHO, the faster way to do it consists in using builtin map function:

map([1.0, 2.0, 3.0], lambda x: 4.0*x)

or, if you have Python > 2.0, you should use list comprehension:

l=[1.0, 2.0, 3.0]
[item*4.0 for item in l]

-- 
Sylvain Thenault

LOGILAB



From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 12 19:11:55 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:11:55 -0400
Subject: immutable count and index
In-Reply-To: <3B76FCBD.D55B5B98@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEFJLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Grant Griffin]
> Does anybody know why the "count" and "index" methods are available for
> mutable, but not immutable, sequences?
> ...
> I can't say that I use these two much, ...

Bingo.  Code bloat just to stop random questions about things people don't
actually want anyway isn't worth it <wink>.

If you really have to, you can use operator.countOf on tuples.

> To me, it looks like the thing to do would be to make the
> general more form used by strings available for all sequence types.

SourceForge is open for patches, but be warned that Guido has rejected
patches of this ilk:

http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470&func=detail&aid=403693
#403693 tupleobject.c: implement tuple.index() and tuple.count()




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 30 13:01:22 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:01:22 -0700
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
References: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com> <3B8D5DA7.6D977284@ccvcorp.com> <3B8D7378.A8E35CCB@home.net> <9mkt6e01d0u@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9os5el.7j8.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <3B8E7162.1C0BBB4E@ccvcorp.com>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:

> Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:23:41 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:
>
> >> >(just as there are some binary fp numbers that aren't
> >> >decimal-representable).
> >>
> >> Actually, I don't think that is true, as I learned on this list. I think
> >
> > Right, and that's easy to prove -- that's because 2 is a
> > factor of 10, of course.
>
> More generally: every prime factor of 2 is also a factor of 10.
> E.g. all numbers representible in hexadecimal fractions are
> representible in decimals as well.

Okay, so my assumption of reflexivity was hasty and unfounded.  Oops.  :)

...so when *is* decimal floating-point (or rationals, for that matter) going to
become available?   (I'm not offering to help, because I think I've already
demonstrated quite well how poorly qualified I am.... <wink> )

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From brueckd at tbye.com  Sat Aug 11 22:33:14 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbee question here. 
In-Reply-To: <20010811214747.07561.00000234@mb-fq.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108111920430.2264-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 12 Aug 2001, Patio87 wrote:

> What exactly does medusa do?

Medusa makes writing asynchronous I/O apps (using the C select/poll
functions) much easier - its two main modules come as part of the standard
Python distribution, and I'd recommend reading the asyncore.py and
asynchat.py source code for more information.

The basic idea is that you can write, for example, a web server using
multiple threads or using a single thread and asynchronous I/O. Since most
servers are I/O bound, it makes sense to let the I/O drive the program
(with a multithreaded server the thread scheduler would continously switch
between threads even if the switched-to thread didn't have any work to do
at the moment).

You can make a fairly high-performance server in Python using Medusa;
asyncore has a dispatcher class that you subclass for general use, and
asynchat creates a asyncore.dispatcher-based class that you subclass for
use with protocols like HTTP. If you've never programmed asynch I/O before
then the first time you use it it'll seem kinda confusing. Once you get
the hang of it, though, it performs pretty well and is really pretty neat.

-Dave




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Thu Aug  2 01:38:52 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 05:38:52 GMT
Subject: QT to change menu bar
References: <ac71c3f1.0107231041.27653883@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kap1c$614$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

David <david7 at visto.com> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how to use QT and python to do the following:
> Usually when you do a mouse over an item on any windows menu bar, you
> will see a boarder around that item. Now I need to do is to make it
> not to have any border, and also highlight the item when I do a mouse
> over. Usually only the item in sub menu will be highlighted when you
> do a mouse over.

That effect is determined by the widget style, and the only way
to really change that is to implement your own widgetstyle, perhaps
based on the windows one. It should be possible, I've done halve
a style for one of the chapters in the PyQt book (www.opendocs.org),
but the code is in some disarray after an unfortunate accident with
Xemacs sgml auto-indent...

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From bokr at accessone.com  Tue Aug 21 16:33:06 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:33:06 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3b82bd6d.99311832@wa.news.verio.net>

On 19 Aug 2001 18:28:23 GMT, Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig) wrote:
[...]
>
>Is there a possibility in Python to return a symbol? In other words: is it
>possible to write:
>
>a() = 5
>
>if the function a() returns a symbol like in Lisp:
>
>(defun a() 'x)
>(set (a) 5) ; x is now bound to 5
>
[...]

I too was thinking that a symbol object might be a useful thing.
Say it was created with the expression
    sym = .
which would work a lot like
    sym='sym'
except there would be no need for a separate string value. The binding
could be changed as usual, of course:
    sym = .
    sym = 123
but
    d = {}
    d[sym]=123
    d['sym']=123
would make two entries.
    type(sym) would presumably return
    <type 'symbol'>
and symbol('sym') would return a symbol object, and writing
    sym = symbol('sym')
would be equivalent to
    sym = .
It would also be ok to write
    spam = symbol('sym')

Presumably
    str(sym)
would return
    sym
not
    'sym'
and
    print sym
would return
    <symbol sym>
as would
    print spam
given the assignment preceding above.

You could get a list of symbol objects by, e.g.,
    map(symbol,'abc')
which would (not currently implemented, obviously) return
    [<symbol a>, <symbol b>, <symbol c>]

It should be legal to have a symbol like this be either key
or value or both in a dictionary, so
    d={'a':'a', symbol('a'):symbol('a')}
should be ok.

I would think these kinds of symbols could play a useful role
as elements of an actual set type.

Hm, should symbol('') be an alias for None ?

If you extended the interpretation of the () trailer when it
was suffixed to a symbol whose value was a symbol object,
you could have the effect of your (grabbed and repeated from above)

>(defun a() 'x)
>(set (a) 5) ; x is now bound to 5

by writing
    a = symbol('x')
    a() = 5

IOW, a=5 would rebind a normally, but a() would access the symbol object
from symbol('x') and rebind that instead. So () would be like dereferencing
a sym link.




From jcollins at boulder.net  Wed Aug  8 17:26:34 2001
From: jcollins at boulder.net (Jeffery D. Collins)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:26:34 -0600
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
In-Reply-To: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>; from joonas@olen.to on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:12:22PM +0300
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>
Message-ID: <20010808152634.B3503@boulder.net>

Try reportlab.com.

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:12:22PM +0300, Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
> I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
> examples

-- 
Jeffery Collins (http://www.boulder.net/~jcollins)



From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 17:33:46 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:33:46 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote in message news:<ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>...
> Currently it would be better to think of it as instantiated 
> from a subtype.  The type of a class instance is 'instance'.  
> The type of a subtype instance is that subtype, just as the 
> type of a list instance is 'list'.

So .. do types support multiple inheritance? I would assume
they don't, i.e., that the following generates an error:

    class Mosaic(dictionary, int):
        pass

After all, a mosaic can't have two types of default attribute
(value). But then, what happens in the next step, when classes
and types are truly unified? That one has me scratching my 
head.

Russell


From Bernard.Sufrin at comlab.ox.ac.uk  Mon Aug 13 10:29:44 2001
From: Bernard.Sufrin at comlab.ox.ac.uk (Bernard Sufrin)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:29:44 +0100
Subject: Tkinter -- interpreter crashes in tcl in presence of threads?
Message-ID: <3B77E458.72E4206A@comlab.ox.ac.uk>

I've been plagued, across two very different programs, a few variants of
python (1.6, 2.0, 2.1.1) and tk with what look like tcl interpreter
crashes during a python call to tcl at an unpredictable time during the
execution of the program.

The error report is always along the following lines:

TclExecuteByteCode: done instruction at pc 4: stack top 0 != entry stack
top -1
  Source: "5067420callit"TclExecuteByteCode execution failure: end stack
top != start stack top
Abort

The only thing the programs have in common is that they use threads as
well as having a Tkinter mainloop active. In all the programs,
invocation of Tk code is done via an agent thread (so there's no
immediately apparent race for Tk resources between threads.).
One of the programs is doing event simulation, the other provides the
user-interface component of a proof assistant.

In all cases I'm using the stock python libraries, and a stock tk/tcl
setup. In other words I can't put this down to some imported (or
self-written) extensions to the libraries.

Can anyone shed any insight into this?

Bernard Sufrin




From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Tue Aug 21 07:17:24 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:17:24 -0400
Subject: Python COM local server as .exe possible?
In-Reply-To: <20010820173014.B8538@zot.electricrain.com>
References: <3B7FE793.23967.42B4CEE@localhost>; from bill-bell@bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:21:39PM -0400
Message-ID: <3B820B04.20500.4B56BFE@localhost>

Gregory, thanks! Precisely the kind of thing I wanted to know. - Bill

On 20 Aug 2001, at 17:30, Gregory P. Smith wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:21:39PM -0400, Bill Bell wrote:
> > 
> > Can someone tell if I can expect to do this conversion with py2exe,
> > freeze or another products of this kind?
> 
> Yes.  Here are some posts (linked to related threads) on such a topic
> a while back.  I am successfully using py2exe to make a local COM
> server executable:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-May/046141.html
> 
> 



Bill Bell, Software Developer



From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Thu Aug 30 04:46:07 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:46:07 +0200
Subject: Getting expat compiled properly
Message-ID: <9mkugf$99h$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

I have managed to compile expat so it works with
Python (2.2a1), but when I try to run cgi scripts now,
they don't work. The reason is that Python can't
find libexpat.so ... I thought this was supposed to
be a static link (with libexpat.a)? How am I supposed
to do this to make it work properly? I've edited
the lines in Modules/Setup -- I can't find any other,
more "Distutils-like" way of doing it... Is there
something else I'm missing? When I use ldd on Python
i see that it's referencing another expat library
than mine... And that one's called libexpat.so...

What's going on here? With all the XML support in
Python 2.2, installing expat (which is a requisite)
really ought to be simple, no? I've even tried
to use the gcc -Wl option to pass the -R option
to the linker (all of which was news to me until
recently)...

- Magnus (stumped)

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Sun Aug  5 15:21:27 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 19:21:27 GMT
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <eppstein-F2006B.15303626072001@news.service.uci.edu> <yu99puamdzte.fsf@europa.research.att.com> <o01rmtsbpv3rukmdbhronro81g6te0vm1r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9mr75n.df9.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:56:21 +0100, Stephen Horne <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> pisze:

> In any division process where the dividend is not a multiple of the
> divisor, there will be a remainder involved.
> """
> 
> This seems to imply type. If you are working in the set of reals (or
> rationals, or complex numbers), then any divisor other than zero can
> be multiplied by some definite value to exactly recreate the dividend.

AFAIK "multiple" means integer multiple, independently of the type.
For example 0.6 is a multiple of 0.2, and 0.7 is not.

> For me, -(a/b) == (-a)/b is an *obvious* identity to preserve

For me, only when dealing with division without remainter. It doesn't
necessarily hold for division with remainder. It's an evidence that
there are two concepts called division involved.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From andre.risnes at tenpipes.no  Thu Aug  2 03:22:47 2001
From: andre.risnes at tenpipes.no (André Risnes)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:22:47 +0200
Subject: indent in xml
References: <mailman.996723367.12395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kav59$srs$1@lise.netcom.no>

"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.996723367.12395.python-list at python.org...
> and '',the xml file is:
> <books>
>   book>
  ^^^ You're missing a '<'

Also, IIRC, XML parsers are supposed to return whitespace and
newlines etc. You could just ignore them in your processing code.

--
Andr? Risnes





From chrishbarker at home.net  Wed Aug 15 18:21:18 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:21:18 -0700
Subject: efficient in-place byte modifications
References: <29e28c51.0108150911.28f315ff@posting.google.com> <etdsnet9q0n.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7AF5DE.D6DF7619@home.net>

Cimarron Taylor wrote:
>The thing is, I need to
> do a lot of separate in-place modifications of the contents
> of the packets, so using (immutable) strings for packets
> probably won't work.
> 
> I think my remaining options are to:
> 
> 1. use the array module for the buffers

This sounds perfect to me...

> 2. figure out how to use the "coming-soon" buffer object
>    and the readinto call
> 3. code the buffers in C and wrap accordingly
> 4. do something else (use tuples?)

Tuples won't work, they are immutable, so you can't change just one item
without re-building hte whole thing. Lists would work, but there is no
native one-byte data type, so you would ahve a list of one character
stings, which might be a bit much overhead.

Youd also use NumPy arrays (http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy), I'm
not sure they will give you anything you can't gt from the array module
for your purpose, but they have a lot of other nifty features!

-Chris




-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 15 04:30:31 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:30:31 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b7a32e5.3425390@news.t-online.de>

On 14 Aug 2001 22:59:05 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com>
wrote:


>2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
>   I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
>     is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>     is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>     is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>     is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type
>
some people already pointed out you can use type or isinstance; here
is a very nice function that works with your example (and shows of
python tricks):

is_int = lambda x: type(x) in [type(1),type(1L)]




From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 11:57:33 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:57:33 +0200
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996737344.3078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5633643.7dW097sEU6@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se> schrub:

> What I believe Greg is aiming at is that the complex numbers are more
> than a pair of reals. A pair of reals is not a complex number unless
> you specify the arithmetic rules of the pair.

Thats right, especially when you imagine that one can also express 
complex numbers in polar coordinates, which very much simplifies 
multiplication and exponential operations, but makes it horribly to 
just add two numbers together (as long as they don't have the same 
"angle").

I personally think that the internal representation can perfectly be 
transparent to the programmer (==user) of the numbers, and there would 
be methods (or attributes) for the angle, absolute value, x and y 
coordinates. Of course, one can give the possibility to choose the 
implementation that gives best speed for the mostly used cases.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:18:02 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:18:02 +0200
Subject: ftplib question
References: <9ks6ai$bq4$1@nntp1-cm.news.eni.net>
Message-ID: <9ktkg801tve@enews1.newsguy.com>

"lc" <lco at gofuse.com> wrote in message
news:9ks6ai$bq4$1 at nntp1-cm.news.eni.net...
    ...
> Question#1 : I'm not sure how i can change to the directory i want to
upload
> the files to. Any help would be appreciated.

Method cwd of FTP objects does that.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/ftp-objects.html#l2h-2320

> Question#2 : does anyone know of a python module that allows me to
schedule
> tasks?
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-sched.html


Alex





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Aug 10 17:37:01 2001
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:37:01 GMT
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com> <G0RgKIAEUAd7Ew$e@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1uYc7.13554$e5.1922661@newsb.telia.net>

> >>Has anyone managed to use PIL and win32com to do screen captures?

get grabscreen.zip from

    http://effbot.org/pil

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 10 19:00:59 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:00:59 -0700
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com> <km86ntkikbahja2irku852153edplok3ob@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7467AB.1BFF33EF@ccvcorp.com>

Courageous wrote:

> >Why is the first one so slow?
>
> Because you're duplicating the entire string every time you add
> a single character to it. A similar situation arises in Java; one should
> use a StringBuffer object instead. In Python this can be accomplished
> by appending chars to the end of a list and then stringifying it: no
> StringBuffer needed.
>
> C//

You might also look into the cStringIO module, which, from what I've heard,
is something similar to Java's StringBuffer (I don't do Java, so can't
verify this).  StringIO builds a string using a file-like interface, and
maintains an internal buffer so that you *can* do multiple appends without
the huge overhead of copying strings every time.  And it probably even has a
quick way write to a real file.  (Note: cStringIO is a C implementation,
StringIO is a Python version; cStringIO is faster, but StringIO can be
subclassed.)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Aug 18 06:30:56 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 10:30:56 GMT
Subject: Case Sensitivity: Survey Results
References: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9llg50$d4o$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Neat survey; of course I also like it as it's similar to my own intuitions. :)
  
Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Perhaps, if one were designing a language from scratch (which is no
> longer the case with Python), it would be reasonable to adopt
> case-insensitivity. It seems there is little benefit to be derived from
> case-sensitivity (although some respondents felt that precision in
> approach and thinking, richness in language and naming choices, plus
> compiler efficiency made sensitivity preferable). So, in the interest of
> generating fewer error messages, insensitivity may be preferable.

There's one other potential benefit of case-sensitivity in a language,
which would be case-consistency; just like indentation-sensitivity in
Python results in indentation-consistency.

Anyway, I don't want to start an entire case sensitivity thread again
in response to this, so I shouldn't have written this anwer, perhaps. :)
 
Thanks for the survey, that's useful input into the whole discussion.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 19 15:46:39 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:46:39 -0400
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python  Path Blues)
In-Reply-To: <%cJf7.135459$g_3.21623785@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCELGLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Maan Hamze]
> ...
> how come that the libs that come with pythonwin (regular python libs,
> not only the ones that are win32 specific) depend heavily on the
> registry but the ones that are added later by the user can not depend
> solely on the reistry but on PYTHONWIN setting in environment?  This is
> disturbing.  Please note that Pythonwin and Python are still reading the
> PYTHONWIN setting in the environment but they do not create it.

Nothing in the core Python distribution looks at PYTHONWIN, so I'm not sure
what you're saying there.  I don't know what PythonWin does, though.

The best docs about what Python on Windows does are in the long comment
block at the top of

    PC\getpathp.c

in the source distribution.  If you read those and disagree with them, best
to sort it out with Mark Hammond (and, yes, those comments "should" work
their way into the docs -- patches, as always, gratefully accepted).




From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 20:06:28 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:06:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anyone have success installing Python 2.1 on RedHat 7.1?
In-Reply-To: <9mei0c$5tv$1@sevenofnine.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108272001400.27782-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Louis wrote:

> I cannot get it to run properly.  After all of the dependency errors go
> away, still have this:
>
> creating Setup
> creating Setup.local
> creating Makefile
> + make
> gcc -c -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o
> Modules/python.o Modules/python.c
> In file included from Include/Python.h:54,
>                  from Modules/python.c:3:
> Include/pyport.h:422:2: #error "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for
> platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)."
> make: *** [Modules/python.o] Error 1
> Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.4044 (%build)
>
> towards the end of the install.  I have tried installing from the regular
> tarball, binary RPM, and srcRPM.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on how to get around this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Louis

IIRC, I grabbed the python2-2.1.1-1 SRPM from rawhide. They seem to have a
newer release now though:

  ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/SRPMS/SRPMS/python2-2.1.1-2.src.rpm

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug  3 15:40:55 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:40:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
In-Reply-To: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032334440.5521-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 3 Aug 2001, William Annis wrote:

Have you looked at Freshmeat close enough? I thought there
were several tools to make multi-machine administration easy.

Or maybe you just want to install Radius and let all AAA to
be done there. There are several Freeware variants available,
xtRadius for example.

I have not tried, but NIS and LDAP are also Open Source.

Plus (if I understood correctly) you need backup solution. This is also
available from Freshmeat. Or you can buy BRU or something.

When selecting tools, look how scriptable they are.

>        I've been a Unix system adminstrator for about 7 years now,
>longer if you count my student admin jobs.  With a few, brief
>exceptions, I have always worked places with small computing budgets.
>We can't afford sexy system management packages which can sometimes
>cost in the US$100,000s.  I mean things like Tivoli, CA Unicenter,
>Bull's OpenMaster, etc.
>
>        About once a year I run into some situation where I *want*
>something like one of these tools.  Like many academic sites, we
>started small with a handful of Unix machines and a few dozon users.
>Now we have 100s of users and about 70 Unix machines all doing
>different jobs.  Now I regularly have to rewrite or at least try to
>fix the tools that worked with 15 machines but now fall down: a mass
>of shell scripts, C and perl glommed together with duct tape, caffeine
>and cheap, grad-student labor.
>
>        It may all just make me crazy.  Our old user management system
>(perl and some C) had a unique and beautiful problem.  It generated
>/etc/passwd and /etc/group from a single data file.  An extra space at
>the end of a line could cause some confusion in the parsing, and what
>you sometimes got was a recreated /etc/passwd with the names and UIDs
>slightly out of alignment.  It was a wonder to behold, a nightmare to
>fix.  That system is gone now.
>
>        As the years go by I keep reimplementing these things (if
>we're lucky, we buy something) and I can't help but wonder if there
>isn't some Better Way.  I keep writing these tools, but they can't
>chat with each other.
>
>        Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
>system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
>etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
>*infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."  I've been working
>on a system monitoring tool for several years now, so I have some
>experience in writing distributed systems that, so I already have some
>ideas.  My thoughts right now lean toward a central communications
>daemon/dispatcher attached to a database with various other daemons
>devoted to specfic tasks:
>
>    * keep track of machine data (my current worry)
>    * user data (including fiscal data if necessary)
>    * system monitoring, event and problem notification
>    * for the adventurous, things like printer and job control, etc...
>      (this should be a infrastructure, and it should be easy
>      to plug in whatever you can think up)
>
>Of course there are free various tools that do these sorts of things
>out there, but they don't exactly play well together, if at all.  I
>have ideas on how communication should work, and though I have avoided
>the XML kool-aid up to now, I'm willing to concede XML-RPC might be
>useful here.
>
>        I'd rather not do this alone. So, if there are other Unix
>admins, or NT admins, for that matter, who want to see their favorite
>language used to develop something like this and are willing to do
>some actual work, please contact me.  If there's no interest, I'll
>just crawl back into my office and hush up. :)
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 03, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "MACINTOSH - Most Apps Crash, If Not, Then Operating System Hangs" _/




From yann.chachkoff at mailandnews.com  Tue Aug 28 23:00:03 2001
From: yann.chachkoff at mailandnews.com (Chachkoff Yann)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:00:03 -0400
Subject: Building Python as a shared lib plugin.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281610560.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281610560.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <01082823000306.01485@localhost.localdomain>

Le Mardi 28 Ao?t 2001 16:16, vous avez ?crit :
> >  I get the following error:
> >  ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.0/lib-dynload/structmodule.so: undefined
> >  symbol: PyString_Type
> >
> >  Following my searches, it seems that I need to tell the linker to export
> >  all symbols of the dynamic symbol table, so I tried to add
> > -export-dynamic (or -E) in the main making line, but it does not work.
> > What should I do ? Anyone has an idea ?

> Section 5.2 of the Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter says:
>
<snip>
>
> The '-Xlinker' tells gcc to pass '-export-dynamic' to ld. gcc itself seems
> to ignore it otherwise.

I of course tried this first (I always read manuals before working). It does 
not work. I tried the following one:

$(CC) $(FLAGS) -shared -Wl,-soname,plugin_python.so.0 $(OBJECTS) 
../common/libcross.a -Xlinker -export-dynamic 
/usr/lib/python2.0/config/libpython2.0.a -lpthread -lutil -ldmalloc -o 
plugin_python.so.0.1

Maybe I'm completely wrong or simply dumb. But I passed the correct options 
to gcc and it simply does not solve the problem. (Thanx for trying to help 
anyway)

Chachkoff Y.



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Aug 11 02:01:07 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 09:01:07 +0300
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net> <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <100820011208059612%joe@strout.net>
Message-ID: <kusnezb0f0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <100820011208059612%joe at strout.net>, Joe Strout
<joe at strout.net> writes:

| In article <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
| <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

|| python no longer uses pcre, the pcre based regexp module
|| was replaced by a new unicode-aware implementation called sre (written
|| by Fredrik Lundh). sre is much faster too...

| Wow, I didn't know that.  Where can I find out more about sre?

afraid i don't know of any docs on the internals. i think
the regex compiler is written in python, so you may need
to embed python if you plan to use it in another software package.

  -- erno


From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Wed Aug 22 19:41:13 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:41:13 +1000
Subject: NT info
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010822234113Z-53760@emi1.EMI>

Hi all,

Is there a function that I can display a list of users in server and 
when they last log on ??
API function may be ??

Thanks in advance,
Kim,




From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 26 06:23:22 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:23:22 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <mailman.998796398.21253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b88ceaa.496940252@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:25:42 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Sheila King]
>> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
>> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?
>
>msvcrt directly exposes some library functions supplied by, and unique to,
>Microsoft.  So, like it or not (I don't like it myself <wink>), Microsoft is
>the only entity who can answer questions about them with authority.  FWIW,
>the docs MS supplied with MSVC 6 say their _locking function works under
>"Win 95, Win NT", which *usually* means "everything after Win 3.1".
>
>Also as usual, the functions MS provides as part of their C library are a
>feeble subset of what you can do by using the Win32 API directly, in this
>case by using the Win32 LockFile and LockFileEx functions.  I don't know
>whether win32all exposes those specific functions; core Python does not.
>
I'm wondering if _locking requires using _sopen? The Python builtin open uses
fopen as part of creating the file object, I believe. Example code in
the msvc++6.0 help re _locking uses _sopen, which provides shared access control.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 10:08:48 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:08:48 -0500
Subject: bsddb module woes
In-Reply-To: <01082913242402.01463@ike>
References: <01082912524400.01463@ike>
        <01082913180901.01463@ike>
        <01082913242402.01463@ike>
Message-ID: <15244.63344.413679.971639@beluga.mojam.com>

FYI, I just updated FAQ 4.99 to include information about libdb 2 and 3.

Skip



From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Aug 18 13:38:43 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:38:43 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <YBwf7.55343$MC1.18386642@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <3q5tnt8frcsm04at4d40mtnvt9p3avrkji@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <DKxf7.39029$c8.13736694@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3q5tnt8frcsm04at4d40mtnvt9p3avrkji at 4ax.com...
> static                      Would rather gouge my eyes out. We already
have
>                                 class- and module- level attributes. The
only possible
>                                 use for it is method- and function- level
statics which are
>                                 bad programming practice and "not very
OO," imo.

Maybe 'static' would be used for something totally different, like to tell
the interpreter that dynamism is not needed in a certain context.

def static f(): pass
f.attribute = 1 # Error: 'f' declared immutable by keyword 'static'.

Not that that's necessarily a good idea, but don't confuse the word "static"
with a specific feature in another language.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 19:07:55 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:07:55 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net> <9cojotgk3dmqr99cfbpeboaemgnudeqdc0@4ax.com> <3b8ac249.624843477@wa.news.verio.net> <oc4motgrortc70p096as7u3hi4ccvl8lt3@4ax.com> <uheuslks8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <93tqots93oa2krvtovf86su51g3c8jb363@4ax.com>

David,

Thanks for a very clear and thorough explanation on the idea of atomic
operations in the file system. (I finally took the time today to read
through this thoroughly.) I have some additional questions below.

On 28 Aug 2001 03:13:11 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <uheuslks8.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>:

:Atomicity or ensuring that an operation is "atomic" refers to the fact
:that the operation in question can be considered a single
:uninterruptible unit of activity, at some level of granularity. 

...<excellent explanations snipped>...

:In many (most? I'm not sure) filesystems, rename is an atomic (through
:other internal locks or procedures) operation to help ensure the
:integrity of the filesystem, at least when renaming is an integral
:part of the filesystem interface.  There are other times when it
:doesn't hold true though, many of which occur when using networked
:filesystems.  Another good odds atomic operation is making a directory
:- that's normally my preference if I have to have a cross-platform
:sentinel file (it should even work with NFS).

So, you're saying that the way you usually handle exclusive access to
objects, is by creating/removing directories? 

:  The big problem with
:any non-active-filehandle approach (like a file or directory) is that
:cleanup is critical if you don't want to block other tasks.  So if
:there's any chance the process managing the lock might die, you need
:some way to remove the lock if that happens.

Yes, I discovered that while testing, today. Ignacio had suggested that
I needed a __del__ function for my classes, and I found out today, that
on Linux, if an object had the lock and was deleted but that process
still kept running, I could not recover the lock. I've written a __del__
function, now, that seems to work. It unlocks the file and does cleanup.

:> Actually, the win32file.CreateFile does have an option for exclusive
:> access. I don't believe there is a specified timeout, but it does have
:> the exclusive access part.
:
:It doesn't have the timeout, thus as my suggested code in another post
:does, you have to implement a retry mechanism yourself.  This leaves a
:small risk of starvation (depending on load and retry mechanism) but
:in most cases it's not a major problem.

I will post my code in another thread, I think. (This one is sooo long
already.) I think I have something that works fairly well, now.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From ffp_randjohnson at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 12:21:21 2001
From: ffp_randjohnson at yahoo.com (Mike Johnson)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 09:21:21 -0700
Subject: installing extention modules
Message-ID: <20010804.092120.2027907669.24006@yahoo.com>

Hello,

I've built an embryonic python extension library for AbiWord, and I'm
wondering how I go about installing this library I've created.

When I try to import the module I built, I get:

>>> import Abi
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initAbi)

I've scoured the online documentation, and I've read anything google came
up with relating to extending python... but there isn't a lot to describe
actually installing this module.

(If you can't tell, I'm as yet unfamiliar with the Unix concept of
linking, so don't assume I know anything :-)

I've compiled with the options (in the AW source tree):

g++ -fPIC -g -c -I../../af/ev/xp -I../../af/xap/xp -I../../af/util/xp
-I../../af/util/unix -I../../../../expat/lib -I../../text/fmt/xp
-I../../text/ptbl/xp -I../../af/gr/xp -I../../wp/impexp/xp
-I../../wp/ap/xp -fno-strict-aliasing -O2 -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -fPIC
-L/usr/lib/python2.1/config/libpython2.1.a -I/usr/include/python2.1 
AbiPython.cpp

And then:
g++ -shared -Wl,-soname,Abi.so -o Abi.so -lc

And after this I drop the created file into the /usr/lib/python directory.

But I'm guessing that this compilation is three shades of wrong, too. I'm
finally not getting the "unresolved symbols" errors anymore, at least!

My questions come down to:

1) Do I need to use libtool? I noticed that pygnome uses it, and I've
studied how it's built, but I don't yet understand enough about it's build
process.

2) Do python modules need any special compile parameters?

3) Is there a place I can learn more about Unix linking? Google's not
helping much in that department, or maybe the documentation is just a bit
sparse.

Thank you all for a great language, and for any help you might be able to
provide. I'd really like to work with AbiWord in my favorite language. :-)

- Mike Johnson


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 17:16:29 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:16:29 -0700
Subject: dumb question.
References: <NLbj7.3336$S5.2321233@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
Message-ID: <3B8D5BAD.51DC09BE@ccvcorp.com>


Adonis Vargas wrote:

> is the behaviour of print suppose to automatically start a new line? or does
> the print command suppose to wait for a cr\lf prior to ending the line?
> because everytime i would like to use the print command to print X line of
> text/numbeers/etc. sequentially it start a new line everytime print is
> issued; isthis a normal thing? or a problem?
>
> Adonis

This is normal.  Actually, it's not that each print *starts* on a new line, it's
that each print statement *ends* by adding a newline on the end.  This behavior
can be suppressed, though, by adding a comma at the end.

>>> def ShowList(mylist):
...     for item in list:
...         print item,
...
>>> ShowList( range(5) )
0 1 2 3 4
>>>

Note that print also does odd things with adding spaces between items printed.
If this is not the desired behavior, it's a good idea to use sys.write()
instead.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 06:30:00 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:30:00 +0100
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
References: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9md4d401l6k@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <WWVECJAoEii7Ewnx@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9md4d401l6k at enews1.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleax at aleax.it> writes
>"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
>> Whilst trying to recompile an extension with freeBSD 4.2 + Python-2.1.1
>> I'm getting the following error.
>>
>> /usr/local/include/python2.1/unicodeobject.h:91: wchar.h: No such file
>> or directory
>>
>> This extension compiled OK with Python-2.1. So must I upgrade my OS or
>> is this a buglet of some kind?
>
>I think the ISO standard for the C language mandates the
>existence (includability, actually) of wchar.h, and Python
>now requires a standard-compliant C compiler, so it doesn't
>seem like a buglet to me that the installation isn't
>checking for wchar.h's existence.  If your C compiler for
>FreeBSD doesn't have a wchar.h in a standard include
>directory, and you can upgrade to one that does, this
>might indeed help.
>
>
>Alex

So is gcc now defunct?

I looked in vain for wchar on my colocated platform and don't find it.
Python-2.1.1 manages to build fine and on that machine I don't get the
problem building the extension.

The comments in unicodeobject.h seem to imply a missing wchar.h might
not be fatal.

I'm guessing this might be some difference in the way the two
pythons/distutils were configured.
-- 
Robin Becker


From markus at schabi.de  Sat Aug 11 16:27:56 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:27:56 +0200
Subject: Please Help:   xml.parsers.expat question
References: <hns2ntgvslq3uouagbpqolik9q7h1oj6df@4ax.com> <1544816.6Veaoefvbu@lunix.schabi.de> <j4d762dhst.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1123976.taCxCBeP46@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> schrub:

>> for me (using Jython 2.1a1 on java1.3.1 (JIT: null)), the following
>> gives no error:
>> 
>> from xml.parsers import expat
> 
> Are you saying you have a pyexpat in Jython? That's hard to believe...

Well, I just retried it, this is the log of my session:
*******************
schabi at lunix:~$ jython
Java runtime: /usr/bin/java
Classpath: /usr/share/java/jython.jar

Jython 2.1a1 on java1.3.1 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from xml.parsers import expat
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: cannot import name expat
>>> from xml.parsers import expat
>>> print expat
<module xml.parsers.expat at 4707691>
>>> 
*********************

It is reproducable - the second try to import doesn't give an error 
message any more.

It seems as yesterday, I thought of a typo causing the first error, and 
retried it. As it seemed to work, I just copy-pasted the command to my 
reply.

I didn't try the module itsself, as I didn't use expat before.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug  2 02:16:18 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:16:18 +1200
Subject: [OT] Number theory  [Was: A use for integer quotients]
References: <mailman.996562926.4343.python-list@python.org> <slrn.pl.9mctcn.irh.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <3B68F032.60370A1C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:
> 
> numeral forms depending
> on the noun and vice versa,

Do Polish speakers' brains ever get into an
infinite loop due to that?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 07:50:14 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:50:14 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996258291.15055.python-list@python.org> <psog0besc97.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <3b65a820_7@Usenet.com> <9k4l5c$o985@news1.gtech.com> <sLl97.75231$Xr6.349962@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <9k64q501vd6@enews4.newsguy.com> <3b6f56ac.172427147@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9kokll01k1t@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b6f56ac.172427147 at wa.news.verio.net...
    ...
> >and so forth... but striving to cover *all* the bases conflicts
> >inevitably with the SIMPLICITY that should be a very important
> >meta-goal of any language's design.
> >
> It strikes me that a lot of human creations seem inevitably
> to go through a Baroque phase, whether it's architecture, painting,
> music, gizmos, or programming languages.

This may be related to what Brooks calls "the second-system
effect".  However, Baroque music in particular reaches peaks
of such stark, pure perfection that I doubt it supports your
contention -- do remember that Baroque music means Pachelbel,
Vivaldi, JS Bach, Haendel, Telemann, Scarlatti...!  Yes, there
IS a lot of conceptual richness behind the apparently-skeletal
structure in (e.g.) the "Art of the Fugue" -- but it is *depth*,
not *complication*.  You may find periods of unnecessary
ornamentation and complication (which seem to be the issues
you're implying by your use of "Baroque" in context) in music,
but Baroque music itself is definitely *NOT* one of them.


Alex





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Aug 29 12:56:06 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:56:06 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> In article <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer
Deyke wrote:
> > "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrn9ops86.ks3.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
> >> After reading a handful of follow-ups, I'm still curious what
> >> you mean when you say that's unreliable.
> >
> >>>> def foo(a, b): return '%.2f' % (float(a)/b)
> > ...

>
> Thanks, but that wasn't helpful.  Am I to assume that you're
> not happy with one of the results?  Which one?  Why do you
> think it's wrong?

> >>>> foo(1, 200)
> > '0.01'

Standard rounding: 0.01
Accountant rounding: 0.00

In this case the result resembles what you get with standard rounding, but
this is not always the case.  See below.

> >>>> foo(3, 200)
> > '0.01'

Standard rounding: 0.02
Accountant rounding: 0.02

This looks like a "just plain wrong" result to me.  If you don't care about
the least significant digit, this might be tolerable for you.

> >>>> foo(5, 200)
> > '0.03'

Standard rounding: 0.03
Accountant rounding: 0.02

Again, the result resembles what you get with standard rounding.  This case
doesn't really demonstrate anything new.

> >>>> foo(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000l, 2)
> > '5000000000000000200000000000000000000000.00'
                     ^

Not just incorrect, but the incorrect digit is right in the middle of the
number, not in the least significant place.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 14 15:56:17 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:56:17 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <1709172.gFLt9SDvcz@lunix.schabi.de> <Xns90FD93614D7DCmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <3765983.NhbJn0HT0T@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk> schrub:

>> (as long as I didn't miss anything)
> 
> LOL.  I expect we're there now: except of course, you have to add the
> proviso that tmp is a new name not already in use

At least it shouldn't be in use in your own local scope, which is 
relatively easy to guarantee when you write a function.

> Well, I didn't know the detailed semantics, so it's been quite useful
> to learn how this actually works...

:-)

The docs are your friend.

But in most cases, python has a rather intuitive way what happens, 
luckily.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From relfx at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 22 17:16:49 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:16:49 -0400
Subject: IRC Client : Where to begin
Message-ID: <sdVg7.14129$V7.421320@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Dear Python Community,

                                         I would like for someone to help me
a little with my irc client project. People have told me a few times that I
should try studying up on using sockets, asynchat and asynchronous module. I
have done some looking into all of these. The one thing that bothers me is
where should I begin? I have tried reaching other irc client owners but that
proved to be a loss. this is why I would really appreciate it if someone
would be nice enough to help understand what all is need for the connection
to the various irc servers and the implementation of the irc commands.

   Also I would like to know what is the difference between a GUI and
Console interface? Which would be better for a irc client?

   It is becoming more and more apparent that the use of python within irc
is fading do to the fact that there isn't a client that can run in windows
98- 2000. And I would like to bring some light to this by creating a irc
client with the help of as many people as it takes.

   I saw in a book I read a few days ago a python script that was separated
in different parts using comments. Is this a good idea?
Can I actually make just one .py file that will have everything needed to
run the new client? Or will I have to separate each script into different
.py files? For example if I do need to make separate files should it look
something like this?

1) Server.py : this script will contain all information for connecting to
the various server for irc.
2) Gui.py : This is script will contain all information for making the Gui
for the client.
3) Commands.py : This will contain all of the irc commmands need to function
properly.
4) Script.py : This file i'm not so sure what this should contain. But I
would like for this to the file that lets you interact with irc by allowing
you to use python as the main scripting language. Also if possible include
the gui for the script editor as well.

   From all the information I mentioned above is it possible for me to start
building? If I have missed anything please feel free to inform me. Also let
me hear your views on this and if you would like to help me in this
contribution to the open source community.





From support at internetdiscovery.com  Sat Aug 25 19:32:49 2001
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:32:49 GMT
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
References: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3b88359d.7036398@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:33:46 GMT, Joseph Andrew Knapka
<jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote:

>Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
>
>> I've found little value in writing unittests for GUI apps
>
>This is a subject that's been on my mind lately, and since the
>subject has come up here, maybe some one can give me some pointers
>on this matter:
>
>How exactly would one go about automating unit tests of GUI code?
>Specifically, I'm working on some UI stuff in Tkinter.
>At first I thought, "well, I can just write tests that call
>my Tk callback methods directly with appropriate values", but
>then I realized that that can't work because my code
>depends on the widget state (eg might call event.widget.get()
>for a key-release event, or something like that).
>
>So that means I'd need to write code that actually drives
>the Tk widgets "from outside", as it were, either by synthesizing
>events somehow at the OS/window-system level, or by knowing
>enough about the Tk internals to convince the widgets that they're
>being clicked on, typed at, etc. And at that point it looks like
>a lot more effort than it's worth.

It's probably easier than you think: look at the Tk 'event' command.
It can deliver an arbitrary keyboard mouse or virtual event to any Tk
widget. 

In your UI code,  setup a dictionary which contains the widgets 
that you want to test by sending events to, so that you can refer to
then in the testng code. Then in the testing code, use the event
command to send thngs like <Button-1> events to those widgets.

Note that if you are testing Dialogs (popped up windows with a grab)
you probably have to use the Tk 'after' command to queue up the events
before instantiating the Dialog.

Mike.




From bsb at winnegan.de  Sat Aug 25 12:25:45 2001
From: bsb at winnegan.de (Siggy Brentrup)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 18:25:45 +0200
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
In-Reply-To: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1>
References: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <878zg89kdy.fsf@winnegan.de>

gradha at iname.com writes:

> Hi.
> 
> Promptly most of my scripts give SyntaxWarnings under Python 2.1.1, and the
> warning is so strange to me, and doesn't explain anything or point in any
> direction that I don't know exactly what to do. I've searched the
> documentation for warning, syntax and global keywords, but I don't seem to
> find what is making python angry. Here's the example:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> expresion_include = "a string"
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    global expresion_include
>    print expresion_include
> 
> As said before, versions of Python 2.0 and earlier didn't show this warning.
> What is it

SyntaxWarning: name 'expresion_include' is assigned to before global declaration

Exactly what it says, in line 3 you assigned to expresion_include,
later in line 6 you declare it global.

> and how do I make it go away?

Remove the global statement, at module scope it doesn't make sense.


Thanks
  Siggy

-- 
Siggy Brentrup - bsb at winnegan.de - http://oss.winnegan.de/
****** ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam *******



From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Sat Aug 18 18:42:11 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Thomas)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:42:11 GMT
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998110527.15304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7bCf7.45795$281.7714165@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998110527.15304.python-list at python.org...
> [Thomas]
> > ...
> > - For timing, the clock() call in the windows CRT yields rather
> >   innacurate data, so I had to use a Win32 call.
>
> Note that *Python's* time.clock() on Windows uses the Win32
> QueryPerformanceCounter() call, which has better than microsecond
resolution
> on virtually all Windows boxes.

Yup, that's the call I'm using.  But initially I tried using the CRT clock()
function (I seem to remember that this is the function used by the Python
profiler).

Tom.




From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug 30 09:25:46 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:25:46 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: two little syntax questions
In-Reply-To: <MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108301703260.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Marcus Stojek wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Two little syntax questions:
> 1.-----------------------------
> I have a huge dict of 3-tuples. I need the min and max value
> of all tuple[0] entries.

min0 = min(map(lambda x: x[0], dict.values()))
max0 = max(map(lambda x: x[0], dict.values()))
 
> I would like to use reduce. Something like:
> 
> nodes[1]=(3,2,5)
> nodes[2]=(-1,2,9)
> nodes[3]=(0,1,6)
> nodes[4]=(2,9,1)
> 
> minx = reduce(lambda a,b:min(a,b),nodes???and now what)

Or in one go:

mn, mx = reduce(
  lambda o,t: (min(o[0], t[0]), max(o[1], t[0])),
  nodes.values(), (nodes[1][0], nodes[1][0]))

vals = nodes.values()
mn, mx = reduce(
    lambda o,t: (min(o[0], t[0]), max(o[1], t[0])),  # new min, max
    vals,                        # tuples
    (vals[0][0], vals[0][0])     # initial min, max
  )


Instead of vals[0][0] and vals[0][0] some absolute min and max
values could be used.
 
> how do I explain: take first entry in tuple for all keyvalues
> 2.------------------------------
> 
> I have to print the remaining entries of a list
> (first entries are printed in groups of 8 per line)
> 
> lines = len(list)/8
> rest = len(list)%8
> print rest * "i," % (list[lines*8:])

What about:

lst =[1]*75
rest = lst[-(len(lst)%8):]
print string.join(map(str,rest), ",")

1,1,1

Also, rest could be printed in main loop as well.
There is no need to put separately:

>>> lst = [1]*75
>>> for p in range(0, len(lst), 8):
...   print string.join(map(str,lst[p:p+8]), ",")
...
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1,1,1
>>>


 
> doesn't work. Okay I know print is expecting a tuple and
> list[lines*8:] is not. So how can I transform this into
> a tuple.
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Marcus

Nice questions!

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 03:26:51 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:26:51 -0400
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oucr5.1ku.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECILJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Michael Teo]
> However, I noticed that Python 2.1 does not give a trailing 'L'
> for str(l).
> Is there any solution which will work well for Python 1.5.2 and
> Python 2.1 ?

    repr(somelong)[:-1]

or

    `somelong`[:-1]

or be straightforward instead of suicidally clever:

    def tostr(i):
        "Return integer i as string, without trailing 'L'."
        s = str(i)
        if s[-1] == 'L':
            s = s[:-1]
        return s

By being straightforward, you don't have to worry, e.g., about chopping off
the last digit of a short int "by mistake".




From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Aug  7 08:59:45 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 14:59:45 +0200
Subject: pydoc&readline Re: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051053000.2450-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997025289.3102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kooo1$5dk$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote:
..
> Why/how do you want pydoc to support readline ? Isn't it enough that the
> interpreter supports readline ?

Maybe because some make a lot of typos, so like to correct instead of
retype the whole bunch?

And it's not enough that the interpreter supports it:

   >>> help()       <<< here I'm a happy camper
   help>            <<< and here I'm lost without my readline support:(
-- 
groetjes, carel


From inigoserna at terra.es  Tue Aug  7 16:05:45 2001
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 22:05:45 +0200
Subject: ANN: lfm 0.5
Message-ID: <997214856.851.70.camel@lethe.infernus.org>

Hello again,

Here am I to announce the second public release of Last File Manager,
version 0.5.

lfm is a 'midnight commander' clone written purely in Python and
licensed under GNU Public License.
It should work on any Unix (and Linux, of course) with curses module
compiled in. See README file or visit the web page for more information.

http://www.terra.es/personal7/inigoserna/lfm


These are the changes since last released version:

Version 0.5 ("Last call to London") - 2001/08/07:

  + F2 file menu, added many functions
  + F9 general menu, added many functions
  + Implemented find and grep
  + File permissions, owner and group has a window now
  + Implemented preferences, edition has to be improved, of course,
    but loading and saving works
  + Added 'show filesystems info' feature
  + Now 'q' or F10 exits to current path, see proper README section
  + Default pager changed to 'less'
  + Documentation has been improved
  + 'setup.py' now installs docs
  + Many bug fixes and functions rewrites:
      - home and end keys work ok now
      - not all people use bash-type shells, so don't use 2>&1
      - use popen2.popen3 instead of os.popen to catch messages
      - manage problems with move while files don't fit into destination
      - option 'b' does not exist in Solaris' 'du -s' command
      - fix a problem while moving files if destination has no enough space
      - many others

Version 0.4 - 2001/07/19:

  + First public release


I'm going to spend a few days in London so I hope to have my mail full
of comments, suggestions, patches in the return ;-)


Best regards,

I?igo Serna





From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 23 22:55:30 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:55:30 +1200
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon> <mailman.998581116.12575.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B85C222.3166AD6A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
> In theory, it could be a problem.  In practice, it really never is.  My
> recommendation would be that you give it a try and then come back to the
> list if it proves to be a problem.

There is one thing to keep in mind, though:
NEVER MIX TABS AND SPACES IN INDENTATION.
A given file should be indented using either
tabs only or spaces only.

As long as you follow that rule, then as Skip
says, you probably won't have any problems.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Sat Aug  4 01:14:03 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 22:14:03 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108021700.70b4ce67@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108031527.77c4af8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108032114.c03a0a4@posting.google.com>

tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd) wrote in message news:<f67cb2b7.0108031527.77c4af8 at posting.google.com>...
> That's only for the final interpolation.  If you have a method that
> returns a list of client objects and you want to iterate over that
> list to create some HTML, here's how:
> ----------------------------------------------
> <TABLE>
> #for $client in $service.clients
> <TR>
> <TD>$client.surname, $client.firstname</TD>
> <TD><A HREF="mailto:$client.email" >$client.email</A></TD>
> </TR>
> #end for
> </TABLE>
> ----------------------------------------------
> ##compare this with PSP
> <TABLE>
> <% for client in service.clients(): %>
> <TR>
> <TD><%=client.surname()%>, <%=client.firstname()%></TD>
> <TD><A HREF="mailto:<%=client.email()%>"><%=client.email()%></A></TD>
> </TR>
> <%end%>
> </TABLE>
> ----------------------------------------------

Ah, that is more what I am after. :-)

> The docs are rather incomplete at the moment.  I'm about to upload the
> latest version from the CVS, which is much more complete.  The
> Velocity project (essentially Cheetah for Java) has some good
> documentation at http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/index.html

Had started looking at Velocity and if Cheetah is a similar thing for
Python, then it is perhaps closer to what I am after. Not being able
to find iteration etc in Cheetah documentation threw me and I hadn't
had a chance to sift through the code as yet.

> Note: 
> -You can turn off the auto-calling behaviour if you don't want it.  
> -You can use a character sequence other than $ if you wish.
> -You can do things like this:
>    $myList[3:15],  $obj.meth($a*5, kwarg1=$b)

When you say one can to $myList[3:15], does that mean that for
simple array access one can still say $myList[3]. I wasn't too keen
on the $myList.3 mentioned in documentation.

Anyway, while I think more about all this stuff, I will probably in the short
term implement support which gives equivalent interface to mod_python
in Apache. A lot of the template systems for Python have mod_python
wrappers, so if done correctly most template systems might be able to
be easily plugged in and people can use what they want. At least I think
that should work. :-)

When I get a chance, will also look more at Cheetah itself as the documentation
may not be the best guide right now as to what it can do.


From ens_z at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 10:10:42 2001
From: ens_z at yahoo.com (Ens)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 07:10:42 -0700
Subject: privacy in Python
Message-ID: <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0@posting.google.com>

class cls:
	def f(self, a, b):
		print a+b
	__p=12

obj=cls()
fun=obj.f
print fun.im_self._cls__p

12

I need that '__p' exactly be private.


From g.r.garnett at worldnet.att.net  Wed Aug 22 19:25:25 2001
From: g.r.garnett at worldnet.att.net (George Garnett)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:25:25 GMT
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

I'm not a python programmer, but I have evaluated the language relative to
java (yes, I'm a java programmer, and you can assume my opinion on python is
suspect). No doubt I'm about to be beat up by all your phyton programmers
for this, but I'm a glutton for punishment. Please, no four letter words or
verbal attacks about my mother.  Here goes:

There is a pile of existing (legacy) visual basic programs out there that
need to be enhanced and debugged even if Microsoft VB is rapidly moving
towards Microsoft's  '.net' (dot NET) technology to replace it. There are
even new projects using VB since the replacement for it will take some time
to develop and saturate the market. There should therefore be enough time in
the transition to find enough work in VB until Microsoft replaces their VB
with '.net'  (dot net) technology. Rumor has it that it will be somewhat
similar look and feel development environment to VB, but unlike VB, its for
creating web based applications, and not stand alone applications as is VB.
Its in beta test now and will not be a viable (mature bug free) product for
another 2 years or so. The competitor to .net is java and JSP. For immediate
work, I suggest you create a small project (or two, or three) using VB to
show the companies that you stand out in the crowd in that you can implement
the language and not just read books on it and worked out a few examples.
Don't worry about the market too much. Within a year or so companies will be
begging for programmers again. You should prepare for that while you have
some free time between jobs by studying. Still worried? Read 'How to stop
worrying and start living' by Dale Carnegie.

Python has been re-written into jpython in which the language closely
parallels the java language. The main difference is java enforces strong
type casting (which is good), where jpython does not (its a gimmick to not
scare off non professional programmers who don't want to take the time to
verify every line of code is type casted correctly (this is the part where
I'll get beat up on) ). JPython is billed as a browser side scripting
language that complements java. This I believe is true. However, java's JSP
technology came out and I believe jpython's days are numbered (then again,
considering how quickly technology changes, everything's day's are
numbered!). JPython is Python's attempt to hold onto all its python
developers and will provide them with a transition path to java (this is the
part where I'll get beat up on too) as an alternative to JSP and javascript.
If you don't already know python, I suggest you jump directly into
Microsoft's '.net' technology, or java/JSP and skip jpython. The market will
be split between these two powerhouses for the next 5 years or so. Either
way, an immediate job isn't likely in these until you come up to speed
(about a year or two), or until the economy picks up (in about 12 months).

Both java/JSP and python require knowledge of
html/javascript/java/jsp/xml/web design. Unlike VB, its not one development
platform but a combination of technologies. The promise of .net is to be one
development platform. The downside is proprietary design and not open
source. Companies want to keep away from being under the thumb of one vendor
(such as microsoft). By the way, JSP may develop a good JSP tag library
where some vendor in the future will develop a single development platform
and beat microsoft at its own game. Either way (microsoft or java), you'll
have a lot of reading to do.

If you want to go the java route, here are few books I'll recommend (see
www.bookpool.com for 40% off). I suggest you order one at a time to see if
its to your liking. And/or go to the bookstore and browse through them. Note
java is an object oriented concept and that too will take some time to
appreciate. Good Luck!
Core Java Volume 1-fundamentals

Core Java Volume 2-Advanced features

Thinking in Java     eckel

JavaScript the Definitive Guide

HTML & XHTML the Definitive Guide

Java Servlet Programming     o'reilly

Core JSP              hougland/tavistock

Advanced Java Server Pages      geary

Database Programming with JDBC    o'reilly















"atonal" <watchtheclosingdoors at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:48256545.0108221258.5882c94f at posting.google.com...
> i have beginning-to-intermediate level vb6/vba programming skills and
> would like to find employment before long in a technical capacity.
>
> something tells me that vb is not my ticket, and i am intrigued by
> python.
>
> for now i am somewhat wedded to ms windows and ms office, but i gather
> that python can be used in many ways in place of vba, and that in
> general it would offer more career opportunities.
>
> anyone agree or disagree?  advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.




From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 15:30:44 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:30:44 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <9m34eb029s8@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b85511b.268189646@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:33:25 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>"Russell Turpin" <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:8a12e538.0108230607.30481024 at posting.google.com...
>    ...
>>     class MyInt(type(0)):
>>         pass
>>
>>     myInt = MyInt()
>>     myInt = 5                     # Will this work?
>
>Sure it will work: it re-binds name myInt to something
>different just before, exactly as it always did.  WHATEVER
>myInt was before the
>    myInt = 5
>has absolutely NO relevance.
>
ISTM this is a matter of defining the semantics of the
assignment/binding expression
    lhs = rhs
Is it cast in concrete *for always and forever* that the
old binding of the lhs will *always* be discarded in favor of a new
binding to the rhs without regard to the previous binding?

IOW, one could conceive of a check for an attribute of the old
binding's object which if present would mean that the old object
gets to handle the reference to the new rhs and leave the old
binding alone. E.g.,

    class C:
        def __instance_rebinding_preemption__(self,x):
            print 'C instance is controlling instance = ',x,'binding.'
        def __class_rebinding_preemption__(self,x):
            print 'class C is controlling C = ',x,'binding.'

    c=C()
    c=5
would =>
    C instance is controlling instance = 5 binding.
and
    c
would =>
    <__main__.C instance at XXXXXXXX>
and
    C=5
would =>
    class C is controlling C = 5 binding.
Preemption of rebinding of a metaclass instance would work the same way
as any other instance.

This scheme would amount to a permanent binding for a symbol in a particular
scope, until something deleted the relevant binding preemption method.




From nikinakof at gmx.net  Tue Aug  7 04:01:39 2001
From: nikinakof at gmx.net (nikinakof)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:01:39 +0300
Subject: python + mysql on slackware 8.0
Message-ID: <20010807110139.38afd6e7.nikinakof@gmx.net>

Is there anyone can help me, configuring python + mysql on slackware 8.0 ?

--
Nihat Ciddi nikinakof at gmx.net http://nikinakof.cjb.net 



From runyaga at thisbox.com  Tue Aug 21 01:25:04 2001
From: runyaga at thisbox.com (alan runyan)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:25:04 GMT
Subject: Zope question
References: <I_Ff7.12981$0X.3469332@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Qgmg7.487529$lq1.93634493@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

try question on the zope mailing list,
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope





From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Wed Aug 29 09:50:42 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:50:42 +0100
Subject: Autoresize in Tkinter
References: <4e2ddb70.0108281256.6a23eabc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8CF332.E85097A8@westerngeco.com>

Jonas Bengtsson wrote:
> 
> Why doesn't the text resize with the frame in this code example?
> 
> import Tkinter as Tk
> root = Tk.Tk()
> t=Tk.Text(root)
> t.grid(sticky=Tk.NW+Tk.SE)
> t.insert(Tk.END, "test")
> root.mainloop()
> 
> /Jonas B

I don't use the Tk gridder much perhaps someone else can answer the
question...
however using the packer like so :-

import Tkinter as Tk 
root = Tk.Tk()
t=Tk.Text(root)
t.pack(fill='both', expand='yes')
t.insert('end', "test")
root.mainloop()


works......


Martin.


From barry at zope.com  Tue Aug 14 23:12:35 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:12:35 -0400
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15225.59555.221827.397381@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "S" == Stephen  <shriek at gmx.co.uk> writes:

    S> I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and
    S> the numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages
    S> with attachments.  I've found various solutions, some of which
    S> no longer seem to work, and was quite surprised how this
    S> seemingly banal task has caused so much trouble.  However, in
    S> Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into the
    S> actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way,
    S> they display when the recipient views the message.  Just how
    S> does one compose a message like that with Python may I ask?

It's actually fairly easy using mimelib.  Note that

    http://mimelib.sf.net

contains a pretty up-to-date description of the library API, but it is
missing an examples section.  That's on my to do list.

    S> Also if I read between the lines of some posts in the archive,
    S> is it safe to assume that mimelib is the way to go for future
    S> MIME manipulation?

That's the intention.  Guido has given me the green light for adding
mimelib to Python 2.2's standard library, and I intend to work on that
over the next several days.  I've got a few bugs and improvements to
work out, and a little bit more documentation to right, but I think
it's quite useful as is.  I also think it has a flexible enough
architecture to provide room for expansion as time goes on.

One question though: while I original wrote mimelib to handle the
MIME-specific tasks, it really is shaping up to be a general mail
handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
"maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too
generic.  So while mimelib will be able to replace even rfc822.py (at
least at the API level initially, perhaps later at the implementation
level too), we may just have to live with the misnomer, unless someone
can come up with a good -- not too clever, but descriptive -- name.
    
    S> If so, would it be asking too much for a simple example snippet
    S> showing how it is used becaues I can't work out where to start
    S> with it. In fact I'm off to download Mailman in order to read
    S> the source and see how it uses mimelib.  This is overkill on a
    S> par with taking apart your Range Rover in order to learn how
    S> carburetors work.

True.

Have you looked at the unit tests that come with mimelib?  There are
enough examples there to get the basic feel.  For example, look at
test_multipart.py for an example of how to create a MIME message
containing a plain text part and an image attachment.

That's part of the trouble with examples in the documentation: they
can be pretty long-winded.  But that's no excuse for not including
/something/ to give you a feel for how to use it.

Hope that helps,
-Barry



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 14:20:46 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:20:46 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
In-Reply-To: <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
        <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15242.36734.805100.942581@beluga.mojam.com>

    Justin> ... the GUI builder should be cross-platform (i.e., the code it
    Justin> generates should work on Windows and Linux at least) and an open
    Justin> source tool is preferable to a commercial one for cost
    Justin> reasons.... If anyone has any thoughts on this matter, I'd love
    Justin> to hear them.

You might want to check out the gtk/gnome-python/libglade/pyglade
combination.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From garth_grimm at hp.com  Thu Aug 23 19:59:29 2001
From: garth_grimm at hp.com (Garth Grimm)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:59:29 -0700
Subject: Search
References: <mailman.998602748.22311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m45cq$idg$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

check out the re module that is included with the distribution...

http://python.org/doc/2.0/lib/module-re.html

Or review some of the string module (also included with the distribution)
methods which do substring searching and matching.

http://python.org/doc/2.0/lib/module-string.html

--
Garth


"Charles" <charles at a3a.com.br> wrote in message
news:mailman.998602748.22311.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>  Anybody know if python have a perl like regex or php ereg function ?
>  I need search a word into string, but i dont know how modules can help
me.
>
> Thanks.
> Charles
>
>




From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Thu Aug  2 15:02:53 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:02:53 -0700
Subject: C/Cygwin/Python
References: <20010802145452.B393@dothill.com>
Message-ID: <3B69A3DD.E36AEB97@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi Jason,

Jason Tishler wrote:

> > and you do not have to
> > recompile the whole distribution. Is this right (meaning that you do compile
> > the whole distribution)?
>
> Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "recompile the whole
> distribution."

Sorry, I meant the whole source distribution of Python being recompiled within the
cygwin environment (by typing configure; make; make install as usual)

Alexander





From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Fri Aug 17 09:13:14 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:13:14 +0300
Subject: __del__ igners exception in 2.1?
Message-ID: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr>

Try the follwoing snippet:

class bar:
  def __del__(self):
    badsnake()

a=bar()
del a
print "It continues"

it spits:
Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'badsnake' is not defined" in
<method bar.__del__ of bar instance at 0x80cfa1c> ignored
It continues

Why? Shouldn't the exception make python abort?


From parker at gol.com  Thu Aug 16 09:01:59 2001
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:01:59 GMT
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996845706.16206.python-list@python.org>
 <cpae1hxeiz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Ev2ISCA7cve7EwXm@gol.com>

In article <cpae1hxeiz.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
>PoulsenL at capecon.com writes:
>
>> How hard is it to just have a one page redirect to a mirror...  This has
>> gone on for several days and it is not a good PR move.  Just redirect the
>> home page until it is resolved.
>
>The mirror might not like the full load redirected to it.
>
>Anyway, the new site is up now, thanks to Thomas Wouters and his
>employer, the Dutch ISP XS4ALL.  Enjoy!  There are some missing items,
>we're getting these from other mirrors as soon as we can.
>
>--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


That's excellent news.  But I hope, and this is easy to say with
hindsight, someone will consider improving the resiliency: mirroring
drives and controllers, even clustering.

Regards

-- 
Ian Parker


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Aug 10 00:37:44 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 04:37:44 -0000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
| Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<9kpdm3$hhk$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
|> Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
|>| BTW - I would like to see an application that doesn't have significant
|>| hotspots.  I doubt that there are very many.
|> 
|> That's only one of the issues, though.  No doubt you can identify
|> a hotspot or two, depending on your criteria for significance.
|> You still have to ask whether it's worthwhile to write an extension -
|> maybe it would be not much harder to just write the whole thing in
|> a faster language.
|
| Let's do the arithmetic.
...
| Now, I haven't accounted for the time to find that 20%, but I'm
| ahead 4 to 10, so I'm somewhat skeptical that it would be generally
| faster to have written it in C from the beginning.

You aren't accounting for the trouble of managing a program that
now has both Python's and C's problems - it's platform dependent
object code, and at the same time it needs an interpreter.  And
note that your C extension requires extra work and some special
skills to write.  Factoring out your 20% may not be as easy as
you hope.

But anyway, did I say you should write the whole thing in C?
I should bite my tongue, but actually I did not say that.
I stay away from C when I can, and you should too.  I only
said "a faster language".

|> I have tried the "write C after first writing in Python" route, when
|> an application was too big and slow.  It was a small application (but
|> one that is run often), and I'm not sure the Python version saved me
|
| Hmm, the application was "too big" and yet "small"....

Exactly.  For a relatively trivial application, the Python implementation
had a big "footprint".

|> The moral is not that you should be using C instead, but that
|> Python should be faster.
|
| At what cost?  Be explicit - what would you change, and what would the
| other side effects of those changes be?

Well, that's a good question.  Do we agree that it's worth the trouble
to sort that stuff out, or does Moore's law make such things recede in
importance faster than anyone can address them?

We got here talking about static type checking, and there is some reason
to think that could open up some opportunities for optimization.

|> still expensive.  Moore's law is another symptom of denial, "your
|> program isn't really slow - just wait, it will be fast someday!"
|
| Hmm.  Let's look at what this "moore's law denial" has gotten us.
| 3D games.  OCR.  Sound, photo and movie editing.  Sound, image, and
| movie generation.  Digital control of mechanical things in general.
| Primitive voice recognition.
|
| Computers are "fast enough" for those applications, and they weren't
| before.  Every year, more and more things become possible, because
| newer computers tend to be faster for the same $.  Yet, recognizing
| that fact is "denial".  Curious.

That's all true, but what I want you to recognize is that these are
the moving target that software has to meet.  As the capability
expands, so do the expectations, and if your software is slower
than its competitors, that hurts.

Honestly, it does make sense to program in Python.  I have been
doing it for years and it hasn't killed me.  But you have to be
careful where you go with it, and performance is one of the reasons.
That's a problem, and for the moment that's all I want to say -
there's a difference between a problem for which we currently
have no solution, and a non-problem.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug 15 08:31:14 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:31:14 -0400
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com> <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7A6B92.B18EEE3E@engcorp.com>

Alex wrote:
> 
> import urllib
> 
> def checkURL(url):
>     try: urllib.urlopen(url)
>     except IOError: return 0
>     return 1
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     assert checkURL('http://slashdot.org')
>     assert not checkURL('http://foo')

What does this do when a page doesn't really exist
but the server catches the 404 error and ends up serving
up a "this page doesn't exist page"?  I think that
might make almost any URL on modern servers look like
it actually exists, which may not be quite what the
OP really wanted.  For example:

>>> checkURL('http://www.python.org/missingpage')
1

(I realize the definition of "does URL exist" is
really the problem here, not the code.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 05:06:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:06:52 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpwv4a9hwq.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
> > > That one seems to be related to _another_ capability (of which I've
> > > seen no indication that it's also going away) -- keeping the same
> > > class object. but changing that object (rebinding method attributes
> > > thereof).  Or maybe I don't understand exactly what you mean?
>
> As I just wrote, there will be two kinds of classes: immutable
> (static) classes and dynamic classes.  The latter can be modified just
> like classic ones.  But since this makes them less efficient, you have
> to be explicit about this (when using the new class mechanism, which
> is not the default in 2.2).

May I humbly suggest that this seems to be the same kind of design
error another great language designer, B. Stroustrup, made when he
decided that virtual methods (since they are less efficient) must be
explicitly specified as such, i.e. that the default for a C++ method
would be "non-overridable" (non-virtual).  Actually, I think Stroustrup
had more justification -- he was coming from a preliminary language
that had no virtual (no override) at all, and being able to generate very
fast code from a simple compiler was his number two design priority
(right after backwards compatibility with C, priority number one).  I
still believe that, despite this historical justification, in C++ as it
stands
today, having the optimization as the DEFAULT and having to be
explicit to TURN OFF the optimization is the wrong way 'round.  It
requires far too much foresight of the library designer to guesstimate
which methods may need to be overridden by library users, and the
need to explicitly say 'virtual' each and every time not-so-subtly
pushes AGAINST letting methods be overridable.

"Premature optimization is the root of all evil" (Kernighan, I believe).
Having generality as the default, and optimization explicitly requested,
seems to be a way to avoid *way-premature* optimization.  I do
realize that this, like all other generic considerations, needs to be
tempered with common sense, good taste, and design flair -- and
that you're past master at this and have repeatedly exhibited each
and every one of these admirable qualities.  I can think of cases in
Python where optimization is the default and things work fine, e.g.
local variables (although the optimization is _implicitly_ removed
by the presence of an exec statement, I guess you could classify
that as 'explicit' -- from the POV of the compiler it is, although from
that of a programmer, it 'just works').  But it seems to me that the
ability to change a class on the fly (and change an instance's class
to something different although "compatible") is very fundamental,
way more than the dirty tricks that would be enabled if local vars
weren't optimized, and quite comparable to a method being virtual.

COM Automation (MIDL) defaults any interface to being 'extensible'
(not a MIDL keyword, but you do have to explicitly specify the
'nonextensible' keyword for interfaces you want to be non-
dynamic).  This is typically surprising to programmers using it
with statically type-checked languages -- but Python's not going
down THAT route, is it?  With dynamic languages, extensibility of
an interface as the default is SO natural... the description of the
interface becomes a description of that subset of the interface that
is known at compile-time, so that optimization is possible for that
subset, but by default it remains possible to change it at runtime
(although methods outside of the compile-time subset will not be
anywhere as fast to call, since a general search-for-method becomes
necessary, that's OK).  If and when one needs absolute optimization
for an interface, THEN one explicitly optimizes by adding the
nonextensible attribute, so compilers can just insert the fast
method-lookup and give compile-time errors for methods that
are not listed in the now-known-to-be-immutable MIDL interface
description.  This allows natural-order development -- start with
a prototype of maximally dynamic nature, THEN, when the prototype
is working but too slow, get into the hairy issues of optimization,
including adding 'nonextensible' at suitable interfaces used in
hot-spots as shown by profiling (among many other optimization
techniques, of course).  Don't you want Python to support "get it
working, THEN make it fast" just as well in the future as it has in
the past...?


Alex





From just at letterror.com  Wed Aug 15 03:23:01 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:23:01 +0200
Subject: An Archive::Tar for Python - libtar.py (1/1)
References: <3lcjnts3725nrg8tpbr47327guplm8r2ln@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7A2354.F7FB94E6@letterror.com>

Tom Robinson wrote:
> 
>                 Name: libtar.py

Wouldn't "tarlib.py" be more in line with the stdlib?

Just


From doug.fort at verizon.net  Thu Aug 16 20:44:54 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 01:44:54 +0100
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3b7c6904$1_4@news5.uncensored-news.com>

John Hunter wrote:

> 
> I have a class member function that returns a member of that class,
> namely a date class that returns 'tomorrow'
> 
> from Trade import MyDate
> 
> d = MyDate()
> #mdy is month/day/year as a string
> print 'today is %s' % d.get_mdy()
> print 'tomorrow is %s' % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy())
> 
> 
> If I don't put the parens around 'd.get_tomorrow().get_mdy()' the code
> hangs (totally frozen, no response to Ctrl-C on a linux box)
> 
> Does the % operator bind more tightly than the '.' operator?  Is this
> expected?
> 
> Thanks,
> John Hunter
> 
The formatted string is looking for a tuple or a dictionary following the 
'%'. It's not a case of '%' binding more tightly than '.'. By using the 
parentheses you are converting the output of the function to a tuple. I'm 
not too hip to Python internals, but I suspect the interpreter is trying to 
get a tuple from the address of the get_mdy() member, rather than calling 
the function. I like to use the form ... % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy(),) to 
make it explicit that it's a tuple.
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug 29 00:13:25 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
In-Reply-To: <2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108282057590.21489-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

> I'm trying to come to grips with the issue of dealing with sockets,
> or, more precisely, a socket that can accept and process 'n' number of
> requests on a particular address.
>
> Right now I'm going the route of opening an inet streaming socket,
> binding it to the port, and listen()ing for requests. For example, for
> a telnet port:
>
>    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>    s.bind(('', 23))
>    s.listen(1)
>
> ... then ... ?  I've tried a number of approaches, but so far all I
> can get to work is a single connection at a time, and in most cases
> it's good for one recv().
>
> This is an issue I'm going to be looking at in a lot of cases, so I'd
> like to iron it out now if I can. Any suggestions on where to start?

Hi Jeff,
You're getting close - you can either handle multiple connections via
threads or by using a call to select or poll.

With threads, it goes something like this (untested):

import threading, socket

def handler(s):
  'Do whatever you want with this socket'
  print 'Received',s.recv(4096)
  s.close()

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.bind(('', 5555))
s.listen(1)

while 1:
  print 'Listening for connections'
  newSock, newFrom = s.accept()
  print 'Got connection from', newFrom
  threading.Thread(target=handler, args=(newSock,)).start()

That's about it - you can put whatever you want in handler of course.
Also, there's some great code to do all this in the SocketServer module,
including a mixin class that makes it very easy to do all of the above for
you (this newsgroup had a thread on this very topic within the last week).
With SocketServer you don't implement the server itself but a request
handler class that the server instantiates each time a request comes in.
(essentially you just implement the equivalent of the handler method
above).

To handle multiple connections without threads (which may be a good idea
if you need a higher performance solution and are mostly I/0 bound, like
if you're writing an HTTP proxy server), you can use the poll call in the
select module (I think this was added in Python 2.0. If you're using an
older version you can use select.select or the poll module). Anyway, this
approach basically involves creating a poller object (via select.poll()),
and then registering one or more sockets with the poller. You then call
its poll function and it returns a list of sockets on which you can read
or write without blocking (it actually returns a list of tuples, the first
item in the tuple is the file descriptor number and the second is a set of
flags indicating whether you can read, write, or both without blocking on
that socket).

Like I said, this approach works well for higher performance stuff, but is
a little more involved and makes you approach the problem from a slightly
different angle. If you're interested in this, check out the asyncore and
asynchat modules - they build a framework around select and poll so things
are much easier for you. I don't dare post untested code on here because I
know I'll get it wrong (it's slightly more complex than using
SocketServer), but if you're interested I'd be happy to dig up some simple
samples for you (both doing select/poll yourself and using asyncore and
asynchat).

HTH,
-Dave




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 22 11:17:57 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:17:57 -0700
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
References: <3b8394bf.3928488@news.t-online.de> <9m095f$bh95c$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3b83a95c.9205446@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9m0iod$bhd8e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

It looks like getpath.c looks for os.py to set things up, so perhaps:

o = os.popen('''python -S -c "import sys, os;print
sys.modules['os']"''').read()

then back off the file name?


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Dinu Gherman" <dinu at reportlab.com> wrote in message
news:3b83a95c.9205446 at news.t-online.de...
> Well, there is no standard mandating it has to end in 'lib'.
> On a Unix installation I could have '...lib/python2.1/' say...
>
> Dinu




From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Wed Aug 22 11:19:42 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:19:42 +0100
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9m1bb0$lko$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Joseph Andrew Knapka:
>I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
>be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.

>>> class Spam:
...  def eggs(self):
...   return 1
...
>>> umeth = getattr(Spam, "eggs")
>>> spam = Spam()
>>> umeth(spam)
1
>>>

                    Andrew





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 11:17:21 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:17:21 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org> <9k9svq$os4$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <IGcc7.55219$WD1.3269364@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Ralph" <ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9k9svq$os4$1 at inputplus.demon.co.uk...
> > There were lots of proposals for this, all of them contentious to
> > someone or another:
>
> How about my `cl' suggestion?
>
>
I still like Michael ... sorry, "mycl".

Easy to pronounce, easy to understand, and hopefully not too contentious for
anyone to bear.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From naris at ensim.com  Fri Aug 31 00:56:35 2001
From: naris at ensim.com (Naris Siamwalla)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:56:35 -0700
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
References: <Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <2310522a.0108302056.4f6dbf36@posting.google.com>

i ran into this problem when some web servers will accept
the connection but just wait and do nothing.  to fix this we
added a select in httplib's (py 1.5.x) getreply:
        import select
        (r,w,e) = select.select([self.sock],[],[],30.0)
        if r:
            line = self.file.readline()
        else:
            raise socket.error, "select timeout"
don't know how correct this is, but it worked for us.

msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier) wrote in message news:<Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351 at news4.rdc1.on.home.com>...
> Hey people. 
> 
>     I'm writing a web crawler as an exercise, using urllib and htmllib to
> recursively crawl through the pages. Whenever urllib.urlopen() throws an
> IOError exception the url gets flagged as a broken link. 
> 
>     Unfortunately, urllib.urlopen() is blocking for some time on one URL. When
> I do an nslookup on it, it times out within a few seconds, since it's a URL
> from our internal intranet at work and is not accessible from the internet.
> However, urllib.urlopen() takes forever to return. 
> 
>     Is there a way to specify a timeout for this library? I can't find a way
> in the documentation. 
> 
>     Thanks,
> 
>     Mike


From spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 08:58:39 2001
From: spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com (spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:58:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9km49v$kvh$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
> 
> When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like
> 
>   for(i=0; i<lastI; i++) {
>     justDoIt(i);
>     if( someTest(i) ) break;
>   }
>   /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
>   for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
>     doSomethingElse(i);
>   }       

for i in range(lastI):
	justDoIt(i)
	if someTest(i): break
for j in range(i+1, lastI):
	doSomethingElse(j)

should do something similar.


From johnw at gnu.org  Tue Aug 21 18:05:36 2001
From: johnw at gnu.org (John Wiegley)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:05:36 -0700
Subject: MOOP/POO help
References: <9lujp9$hh3$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <m3pu9pcbm7.fsf@gnu.org>

>>>>> On Tue Aug 21, Jeff writes:

> I'm using a virgin MOOP install and then running bootstrap.  I see
> usertypes "User", "Wizard", etc, and note that Wizard is a
> descendant of User.  I want to add a property, "hitpoints" to user.
> So, I use the @set command on $sys.usertypes.User and I have a new
> property when I @ex $sys.usertypes.User.  However, when I @ex
> $sys.usertypes.Wizard, I don't see my new property.

MOOP uses it's own variant of "dynamic properties", which have nothing
to do with Python properties, so your request may not find the best
answer here.

MOOP supports both class inheritance (regular Python properties) and
object inheritance (dynamic properties).  You will want to keep that
in mind as you debug your problem.

In general, though, I'd say that working on MOOP is a good way to
understand object internals, but not the best way to understand the
Python language itself.

John


From xione at bellsouth.net  Thu Aug  2 05:02:05 2001
From: xione at bellsouth.net (Xione Wrent)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:02:05 -0700
Subject: mod_python, apache and win32:
References: <dZ5a7.6024$kg.339481@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <kX5a7.6176$jL6.651137@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

I'm sorry, I forgot to include that THIS is the error message in the
logfile.

   [Thu Aug 02 01:47:16 2001] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] python_handler:
make_obcallback returned no obCallBack!
   make_obcallback(): could not import mod_python.apache.
   make_obcallback(): could not call init.





From patio87 at aol.com  Sun Aug 12 23:16:16 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 03:16:16 GMT
Subject: Any 1 know how to hack in Python
Message-ID: <20010812231616.17889.00003924@ng-co1.aol.com>

If there is any 1 who knows how to hack in python please type me back. For
every body info im not into learning to hack to hurt peoples computer I want to
learn so I can gain an understanding and maybee some homade defence program
against hacking Thanks


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Sat Aug  4 19:13:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:13 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <sbHa7.86105$Xr6.429154@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <memo.20010805001352.60291I@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <sbHa7.86105$Xr6.429154 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, 
nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson) wrote:

>    Tim Rowe:
> > You have lots of good ideas and suggestions from others. /Please/ 
> > don't
> > change Python to accommodate them all; it would spoil it. Put them 
> > into a
> > /new/ language. Maybe even build in call and data level compatibility 
> > so
> > they can be well integrated. Then people can choose whichever one is 
> > best
> > for the task.
> 
>     That is what Guido is doing. The current language is Python 2.1, 
> future
> languages will be called Python 2.2, Python 3.0, and so forth.

I rather understood those to be successive releases of what is supposed 
the same language. I've not heard anyone speaking of using Python 2 in the 
same way I would speak of using Modula 2, where the number really /did/ 
identify the language (and distinguished it from Modula and Modula 3). 
Perhaps we should try the C route (K&R C, ANSI C, C++) and speak of GvR 
Python, ISO Python, Objective Python? ;-) But the sort of changes being 
/discussed/ (but mercifully mainly not implemented) would be more like the 
transition from BCPL to B to C, and would merit completely different 
names. Effectively, keep Python as the Best Scripting Language in the 
World -- Ever! and set about designing a new language with different 
design objectives -- maybe a general purpose programming language or a 
systems programming language -- with a significantly different design 
correctly reflecting the different design objectives, but still largely 
within the spirit of Python. It would have strong typing, would be 
compiled and fast. It would be tightly integrated with Python, rather as C 
is but more so. I'd call it Monty.


From st-aude at online.no  Wed Aug  8 20:58:22 2001
From: st-aude at online.no (Steinar)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:58:22 -0700
Subject: windows development in python?
Message-ID: <997286691.890518@news2.cybercity.dk>

Hi!

I have made a lot of small programs in python, but how do I make windows
programs?

thanks for all help :)

'steinar




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 13 17:09:42 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:09:42 -0500
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
In-Reply-To: <3b7834be.753565800@wa.news.verio.net>
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org>
        <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract>
        <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com>
        <mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org>
        <3b7834be.753565800@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <15224.16918.482102.440107@beluga.mojam.com>

    Skip> I posted this once.  Maybe once again will be sufficient... ;-)

    Bengt> Except on NT4 globbing isn't the default ...

Thanks, added your patch.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Mon Aug 20 14:49:53 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:49:53 -0400
Subject: using floats/ints in print and write
Message-ID: <9lrm06$ausj5$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
  does'nt python 2.2 allow me to use float/int variables in a string 
context. That is I can't write:

print a + 'hello'

where a is float or int. Right now I'm using fpformat.fix() to get a string 
value. Is there any other way?

TIA
-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 21:02:25 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:02:25 -0000
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <9lhqf1+6t8o@eGroups.com>

How do you predefine a function? I want to change an image in a 
canvas and update it, but it (of course) comes up the error that the 
canvas is "referenced before assignment." :) I know there's a way to 
predefine the function at the beginning of my program but actually 
define it later on, but I don't know how. Can someone else help?

Here's my program thus far:

---------------

from Tkinter import *
import Image,ImageTk

def changeimage():
        cKuti3.delete(myimage)
	iKuti3 = 
ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/pinkvest.gif"))
	cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

top = Tk()
top.title("Kuti")
top.geometry("200x100")

iKuti1 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("body/lighttan.gif"))
iKuti2 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("hair/brownbuns.gif"))
iKuti3 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/whiteblouse.gif"))

cpic = Canvas(width = 40, height = 40)
cpic.grid(column = 0, row = 0, columnspan = 2)

cKuti1 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti1)
cKuti2 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti2)
cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

changeimage()

top.mainloop()





From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 08:04:49 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:04:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280653100.27782-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280801540.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> It's quite simple. file.readlines() generates a true list in one go, whereas
> xreadlines.xreadlines() creates a generator that has to be called each time
> you want a line. Generators will never be faster than data.
>
> If you test range() versus xrange() for very large values you'll find the same
> thing, even in the same version of Python.

Okay, after doing some testing, I'm going to retract what I said about range
v. xrange (at least on my P2-266). It seems that they're too close to tell,
and sometimes xrange() does seem faster. I can'r entirely explain xreadlines()
without going into source.

One thing I _will_ say, however, is that 2.1.1 is faster then 1.5.2 with
respect to both range() and xrange().

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From grante at visi.com  Mon Aug 27 10:30:33 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:30:33 GMT
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979 at smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>, Brian E Gallew wrote:

>> 	I have a question about the ececl function from the os module. I was
>> trying to write a script to untar a bunch of tarballs in a directory. The
>> script looked like this
>> 
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>> 
>> import os
>> 
>> os.system("ls *.gz > data_file")
>> 
>> tar_file = open("data_file"), "r")
>> 
>> tar_array = tar_file.readlines()
>> 
>> for tarball in tar_array:
>> 	os.execl("tar", "xzvf", tarball)

The call to exec replaces the current program with the "tar"
program.  It will never return.

>> 
>> os.system("rm data_file")
> 
> That really won't do what you want it to do.  You probably want to do
> something like this:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> import os,glob
> 
> cmd = [ '/usr/bin/tar',
> 	'-x',
> 	'-z',
> 	'-f',
>       ]
> 
> tar_file_list = glob.glob('*.tar.gz')
> 
> for tar_file in tar_file_list:
>     if os.fork():
>        os.wait()
>     else:
>        os.exec(cmd[0], cmd + [tar_file,])

The os.spawnv() function is simpler to use:

  for tar_file in tar_file_list:
      os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT,"/bin/tar",("xzvf",tar_file))

I haven't tested this, so I'm sure there's a typo somewhere...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Used staples are good
                                  at               with SOY SAUCE!
                               visi.com            


From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 23:36:08 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:36:08 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <uu1ytrw93.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <9pjlotkel6c130nech7aauff70l7r736jd@4ax.com> <3b8b0a06.643208765@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <4v3mot49uio796ajslp88dhokh9er3cmlh@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:19:20 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<3b8b0a06.643208765 at wa.news.verio.net>:

:On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:54:49 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
:
:>On 27 Aug 2001 18:08:56 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in
:>comp.lang.python in article <uu1ytrw93.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>:
:>
:>:Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:
:>:
:>:> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
:>:> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?
:>:
:Looks like I mistook your goal. I thought you were trying to do something
:that would work on both windows and linux. Or are you testing os.name and
:doing different things?

I want something that will work on both posix and win32.
However, I expect to have to code them differently, and then put a
wrapper around that, so it appears that they both have the same
interface.

On the method used for Windows, I wanted to make it especially clear,
that it had to work for all win32 platforms, since sometimes people
suggest methods that only work for NT/2000.

Anyhow, I want to thank everyone who has made suggestions. All of the
suggestions have been helpful. I'm leaning right now to the
win32file.CreateFile method for the windows code, suggested by David
Bolen. I played around with it a bit this afternoon, and it looks
hopeful.

I expect to use the fcntl.flock (or should I use fcntl.lockf ?) from the
fcntl module for the posix platforms. I understand that it won't work in
some situations where the files are across a network instead of on the
same machine as where the script is running, but I'm not going to worry
about that.

So, I will write two separate modules, one for posix, one for windows,
and then write a module that wraps them both, so that it *appears* to be
cross-platform.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From im99_foa at nada.kth.se  Fri Aug 10 14:36:54 2001
From: im99_foa at nada.kth.se (Marielle Fois)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:36:54 +0200
Subject: File name and line number
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108102017490.22519-100000@my.nada.kth.se>

Hello,

Is is possible to know the name of a python file within the file
itself? And the line number of the instruction that is currently
being executed? Suppose I have a function, and I want this function
to take two arguments, first the name of the file where it is placed,
and second at which line number. Is there any way of doing this?

Please send answers also to my email address.

Thanks in advance,

Marielle



From aoshineye at digitas.com  Tue Aug  7 08:40:40 2001
From: aoshineye at digitas.com (Adewale Oshineye)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 05:40:40 -0700
Subject: Compiling Python2.2a1 & losing command-line features
References: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com> <mailman.997176011.31867.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f465753b.0108070440.6c40cfbe@posting.google.com>

Hi,
Would anyone know where to get hold of a version of python2.1 for
Cygwin with readline support built-in? Or even some information on how
to go about building python under cygwin?


Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.997176011.31867.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:43:25PM -0400, Paul Johnston wrote:
> 
> > I have used binary and source-compiled versions of Python.  In every case 
> > where I use the latter my Python environment loses all its normal niceties 
> > like backspace, line-repeat, etc.  Is there a setting or configuration item 
> > I need to set to get these back?
> 
> You're missing readline. It's auto-detected, and has been since Python 2.1,
> but apparently it's not autodetecting readline in your case. Perhaps you
> didn't install the readline header files ? (Common problem on Linux systems
> with a 'packaged' libreadline, where you need to install 'readline-dev' or
> 'readline-devel' to get the headers.)


From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Mon Aug 13 22:29:14 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:29:14 GMT
Subject: Newbie lists question
References: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not>
Message-ID: <Xns90FD27FE48BD2rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Wolfe Maykut wrote:

>     if prefixes.has_key(prefix): 
>        prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>     else:
>         prefixes[prefix] = []
>         prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>
> Is there a nicer way of doing this that I'm missing?

How about:

   prefixes.setdefault(prefix, []).append(file)



HTH,
Robert Amesz


From new_name at mit.edu  Sat Aug 18 15:54:57 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 15:54:57 -0400
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <etdu1z5f8j2.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Wow, the real world is going to be easier to deal with than I
thought. :)

Alex.


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Mon Aug  6 06:16:24 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:16:24 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <3b6aa536.1749310@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010806121616.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 03-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
 >  On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:31:44 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
 >  <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
 > >After consulting "Mathematical thoughts from ancient to modern times" 
 > >by Morris Kline, I must admit that I was not checking things correctly. 
 > >Mathematicians were experimenting with roots of negative numbers 
 > >in the sixteenth century, when they still had very strange ideas about
 > >negative numbers. According to the very same book, many mathematicians 
 > >were still utterly confused about complex numbers in the beginning of
 > >the nineteenth century.
 >  
 >  The reason I didn't just say flat out that you were wrong about the
 >  date is that while the time that people first started using complex
 >  numbers in one way or another is clearly much more than 150 years
 >  ago you might have been referring to the date at which people
 >  first started giving a mathematically coherent definition of what
 >  these complex number thingies actually _are_. For some time people
 >  were "using" them althought they were just "imaginary"; the exact
 >  date at which complex numbers became "real" is not at all clear
 >  to me. (Could very well be some time around 150 years ago, that
 >  being when a lot of modern points of view started to sort of
 >  appear faintly on the horizon.)

Thanks for making me do my homework myself. I'm glad that I got this 
sorted out.

 > >By the way, the mathematicans of the sixteenth century also had strange
 > >ideas about irrational numbers, and they had been known for about 2000 
 > >years at the time. According to the referred book, in the fifth century
 > >BC, Hippasus, one of Pythagoras' disciples, proved that there exist 
 > >numbers that are not rational. Citing the book:
 >  
 >  I think it's much more accurate to say they proved that some 
 >  "quantities", certain lengths in particular, could not be represented
 >  using the notion of "number" that they had. Saying that they proved
 >  that sqrt(2) is irrational implies that they had a notion of number
 >  that included sqrt(2), and they shpwed that number was not
 >  rational. I really don't think that's an accurate picture of what
 >  happened (although it's what you read in a lot of books.) I think
 >  it's more accurate to say they showed that there was no number
 >  whose square is 2.

Agreed.

 > >  "The Pythagoreans were supposed to have been at sea at the time and 
 > >  to have thrown Hippasus overboard for having produced an element in 
 > >  the universe which denied the Pythagorean doctrine that all phenomena 
 > >  in the universe can be reduced to whole numbers and their ratios."
 >  
 >  This for example is not a bad way to put it: Klein is not stating
 >  that they decided that there was a _number_ which is not a ratio
 >  of two integers.

Well, they did decide on one thing: To remove the symptom of the problem,
the messenger. The real problem was of course, that they had assumed that 
"all phenomena in the universe can be reduced to whole numbers and their
ratios." 

I have often said that the difference between theory and practice is 
smaller in theory than in practice. However, in this particular case, it
is the other way around. If you want to manufacture a physical square 
item, and you need to produce something that fits the diagonal, you do
not for a moment care if that diagonal is a rational or not. It reminds
me of a pupil in a basic carpentry class, who asked his teacher how many
digits he needed for pi to make that circular thing that he was supposed 
to make. Was the eight digits given by his pocket calculator enough? 
Pi, his teacher replied, is just a little bit more than three.

 > >I'm glad that I don't have to fear that my colleagues execute me if I
 > >find exceptional results.
 >  
 >  Just because it hasn't happened in a while doesn't mean it can't
 >  happen... my advice would be to stick to unexceptional results
 >  just to be on the safe side.

:o)

This thing is getting a little bit too off-topic, don't you think?

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    06-Aug-2001
Time:    11:43:48

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 21 23:32:24 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:32:24 +0200
Subject: HOWTO: Debugging Python extensions on Windows with Open Source tools
Message-ID: <849vl9.6b1.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

I've decided to sum up my recent experiences on this issue in a short HOWTO
document. There are still things that are unclear to me, like how to set
breakpoints. If something doesn't work or is unclear, please point it out.

Gerhard

Here it goes:

HOW TO DEBUG PYTHON EXTENSIONS ON WINDOWS WITH OPEN SOURCE TOOLS
================================================================

Author: Gerhard Haering (gerhard at bigfoot.de)


0. Scope of this HOWTO
----------------------

This howto describes how to debug *native* win32 Python extensions with open
source tools. See Appendix A for how to do this with Cygwin's Python (which is
much simpler).


1. Prepare Python for development with gcc
------------------------------------------

- Install native Python: http://www.python.org/

- Install Cygwin (you'll need gcc, gdb, ...) http://www.cygwin.com/

- Get the dll2def package from
  http://home.trouwweb.nl/Jerry/packages.html#LIB2DEF unzip and put the
  executable somewhere in your path (it put such stuff in c:\opt\tools)

- Open the Cygwin shell and chdir to the libs directory of your Python
  installation

- Create a python21.def file
    $ dll2def c:/winnt/system32/python21.dll >python21.def
  
  (Adjust the path to the python dll if you use Windows 9x or don't have your
  OS installed in c:/winnt)

- Create a libpython21.a file

    $ dlltool --dllname python21.dll --def python21.def --output-lib \
    libpython21.a

- Create a fake debugging environment for distutils

    (the debugging files download from python.org is of no use, because Cygwin
     gdb cannot understand the debugger symbol format used by Visual C++,
     which is used by the Python crew to build the native win32 Python).

    $ cp libpython21.a libpython21_d.a	

- Steps to make your life easier:
    -- Put the directory of the native Python in your PATH.

    -- Copy the native python.exe to something like ntpython.exe to avoid
       confusion with Cygwin's Python


2. Write the extension module
-----------------------------

Here's a buggy extension module:

/* BEGIN FILE crash.c ***********************************************/
#include "Python.h"

PyObject* crash()
{
    char* s = "test!";
    s[0] = 'T';	/* This is asking for trouble :-) */
    
    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    return Py_None;
}

static PyMethodDef crashMethods[] = {
    {"crash", (PyCFunction)crash, NULL, NULL},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

DL_EXPORT(void) initcrash(void)
{
    PyObject *m;

    m = Py_InitModule("crash", crashMethods);
}

/* END FILE crash.c ************************************************/

And the setup.py file to build it:

###### BEGIN setup.py ###############################################
import sys

from distutils.core import setup
from distutils.extension import Extension

setup (
    name = "crash",

    ext_modules = [Extension(
        name="crash",
        sources = [ "crash.c" ]
        )],
)
###### END setup.py --###############################################


3. Build and debug the extension module
---------------------------------------

$ ntpython setup.py build --compiler=mingw32 --debug
$ cd build/lib.win32-2.1/
$ mv crash_d.pyd crash.pyd     # workaround for distutils
$ gdb ntpython

- Run the application in gdb
- Then:
    Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import crash
    >>> crash.crash()

- Gdb will point out where the segmentation fault happened


APPENDIX A
----------

How to debug Python extensions on Cygwin.

- You'll need Cygwin installed (the full development environment, including
  gcc, gdb, python, ...)
- write a setup.py file (see above)
- compile the extension with debugging options:
  $ python setup.py build --debug
- $ cd build/lib.cygwin_nt-5.0-1.3.1-i686-2.1 
- $ gdb python
- Run the application
- "import crash"
- "crash.crash()"


APPENDIX B
----------

Unresolved issues:
- How to set breakpoints in extension modules


-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Sat Aug 11 13:58:48 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:58:48 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c1228f$4e22dd60$f6bd6ac2@zko>

From: Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> wrote in message
> > TBL
> > ( PARENT, CHILD, CHILD_ATRIBUTE1,..,
> >  PRIMARY KEY (PARENT, CHILD))
> 
> Something wrong with this constraint, since it implies a child may
> have multiple parents.  I think CHILD by itself needs to be the
> primary key.  Otherwise I agree -- no need to use multiple tables
> for a parent/child relationship.  Rather, since children appear to
> have varying attributes, you'll need to split THOSE off into a table
> of their own (with CHILD as a foreign key).
> 

Sory, it was just shorthand :)
Actualy, as I was using that, it was:

CREATE TABLE SOME_CATALOG (
  ID INTEGER, PARENT_ID INTEGER, NAME CHAR(20));

CREATE INDEX IX_SOME_CATALOG ON SOME_CATALOG (
  PARENT_ID, ID);   

CREATE GENERATOR GEN_SOME_CATALOG_ID; 

I was useing, before, this structure, with desktop databases also,
for outlook-looking aplications ( ID was, formaly, foreign key
in table with 'real data' )
I wasn't use constraints here, as computers was very slow 
and small :)

My point was that, for initial posters problem space, as I see it,
double-linked-list paradigm not needed (no need for 
child->parent link and solution can be feeted in single
dictionary (probably).

but-now-computers-are-fast-and-big-ly -y'rs,
gzeljko

















From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug  2 15:09:39 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:09:39 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <cf0a7.58667$EP6.13873011@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B69A572.8C08B7EB@home.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> news:9ka118$mj8$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> > And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
> > He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
> > of figure it out himself.
> 
> What we need here are better error messages: a more explicit 'none
> object is not subscriptable' might have steered him to the problem.

That would help, as would any number of debugging techniques that any
Python programmer with any experience would know. However, these would
only work if, in fact the author checked his code with invalid data. It
could be a long time before an error like that was found. Frankly, not
thinking to handle the case of invalid data would be likely to bite you
in any language, and I imagine that it is rare that type checking would
find it very often.

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug  5 16:28:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:28:42 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <9Hgb7.73303$EP6.17305404@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEKILDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Terry Reedy, to Stephen Horne]
> ...
> This is the first Python change in 11 years to break forward
> compatibility of old code in a major way.

Changing str(long) to stop producing a trailing "L" provoked major breakage
in *some* code bases, and indeed we're still hearing about problems that
causes.  It's curious, because when that change was made, there was much
rejoicing and virtually no opposition (I knew it would break some of my
code, but didn't care -- chopping off the trailing "L" for display was
always a PITA, and delighted to get rid of it -- and that's what everyone
said at the time).

> ...
> The BDFL title is partly a recognition of Guido's original and ongoing
> prime authorship (=speakership =dictatorship) of the ongoing works
> known as Python (the language specification) and CPython (the
> implementation thereof).

Guido ceased being the primary author years ago; indeed, from 1.5.2 to 2.0,
you'd be hard pressed to find anything he did to the code base besides
change the license and copyright notices 31 times <wink>.  All the major
new-in-2.0 features were implemented by others.  It's great to see him
coding again for 2.2, but the D part is wrt the design of the language, and
the FL part will vanish the second time he screws up bigtime:  Open Source
is a meritocracy; those who use BDFL with affection are cheerfully
acknowledging that Guido earned their respect.

> It is also partly a joke (a pun on the varied meanings of dictator)
> perpetrated and perpetuated by Tim Peters and a few others.  Taking it
> too seriously, in the negative meaning, as others have done even worse
> than you, seems to me a bit hysterical.  I think something else like
> LFL (Leader For Life) might have been and now maybe would be a better
> choice (Tim?).

I didn't originate it, and the BDFL meme is too well established to go away.
Besides, just think of all the books, articles, old postings, and web pages
that would break <wink>.

like-the-bible-says-the-poor-in-humor-will-always-be-with-us-ly y'rs
    - tim




From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 12:49:24 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:49:24 GMT
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
References: <mailman.998892039.9270.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8a7483.604933858@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:59:11 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter]
>> ...
>> It wouldn't be that hard to gin up a little stand-alone .exe to do
>> what md5sum.py does.
>
>Thinking-cap time:  the problem doesn't come up at all unless they're having
>trouble downloading .exe files.
>
>
01-04-17  20:17  6,272,831 D:\Python\Python-2_1.exe    (my last download)
00-07-17  15:45     32,768 C:\UTIL\lsm.exe             (my ls md5 utility)

if p() is probabability of download error for n bytes (even on the same day ;-),
what is p(6,272,831):p(32,768) ?

Not good enough odds? Or were you thinking of the subset of problems unaffected
by byte length (yet perhaps checkable with a length number) ?

8-<;-)




From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 02:58:34 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:58:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996524288.7635.python-list@python.org> <jonathan-D4822F.08343331072001@news.easynet.co.uk> <Xns90EF65598E954michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3B66B3A2.F47BA3E2@engcorp.com> <Xns90EF9A33C3022michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <4pA97.55816$EP6.12753948@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F0515F93608michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote in 
news:4pA97.55816$EP6.12753948 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com:

> 
> "Michael Abbott" <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Xns90EF9A33C3022michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13...
>>  Perhaps I'm old fasioned, and too concerned about  efficiency.
> 
> You are not the only one :-)  Practice worrying less.

Ha! ;/


> 
>>  I know that processor speeds have increased by a factor of 1,000 or
>>  so in the last couple of decades or so, but it gives me the creeps to
>>  see just how much code is executed to implement such simple
>>  expressions as 1+2 or f(x). 
> 
> When I first realize that side effect of the neat concept
> "Everything's a PyObject" I was shocked.  Fortunately, I was too well
> hooked otherwise to turn back.  I still occasionally remind myself
> that even at Python speeds, a billion additions are much cheaper than
> a few decades ago.

Oh, I most definitely agree that Python is a big step forwards.  I'm just 
looking for two more things: I'd like some of that processing power back, 
please; and I'd love more early static checking.


From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 21:39:58 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:39:58 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:

> > I don't know of any better way to handle the Promise design pattern,
> > either.  In C++, I'm having to kludge around it all the time via
> > letter/envelope idioms -- the possibility of changing classes on the
> > fly makes it much simpler and more direct.  Hadn't thought of that
> > earlier...
> 
> I think the ZODB uses something like this, but it's implemented using
> ExtensionClasses.  I'd hate to see it become a requirement to muck around
> in native code.

Note: an explicit goal of the typeclass unification is that it should
become a *better* mechanism than ExtensionClasses, and eventually Zope
will be rewritten to use the new mechanisms.  We expect that this
solution will actually be cleaner than the existing Zope
implementation.

So if you're relying on something that Zope needs to do, rest assured,
we'll find a way to do it under the new system too!

> > That one seems to be related to _another_ capability (of which I've
> > seen no indication that it's also going away) -- keeping the same
> > class object. but changing that object (rebinding method attributes
> > thereof).  Or maybe I don't understand exactly what you mean?

As I just wrote, there will be two kinds of classes: immutable
(static) classes and dynamic classes.  The latter can be modified just
like classic ones.  But since this makes them less efficient, you have
to be explicit about this (when using the new class mechanism, which
is not the default in 2.2).

> Hmm, I suppose that could be done as well; I'd have to do some other
> shuffling around of class references in order to keep isinstance() working
> like it should, but you're right: it's not impossible.
> 
> > It seems to me the functionality of become is homomorphic to that
> > of class-assignment, unless I'm truly missing something major.
> 
> Class-assignment + dict-assignment is nearly homomorphic. Of course, if we
> could do *real* reference replacement, then you could have a Promise for a
> python list :-).

What do you mean by "real reference replacement"?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From iso4butyl at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 02:29:56 2001
From: iso4butyl at hotmail.com (ekul m blah)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:29:56 GMT
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
Message-ID: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>

has anyone setup zope on win98SE with an @home account? i'm having trouble
with the http server, ftp works perfectly. i'm assuming that the problem has
arrisen from the computer identification that @home requires. instead of a
nice "name" for the http server, i get the elongated
blah.blah.state.home.com that appears to lead the port :8080/manager address
astray.

thanks for the help




From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 10:47:20 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:47:20 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <3b8f8792.4721937@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <Xns910EAB187CA12PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) said :

> On 31 Aug 2001 11:33:52 GMT, Fred Pacquier <fredp at mygale.org.nospam>
> wrote:
> 
>>how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
> 
> def f(x):
>     s,i = list(str(x)),3
>     while i < len(s):
>         s.insert(len(s)-i,',')
>         i += 4
>     return ''.join(s)
 
Well, before rolling my own buggy routine I wanted to check I wasn't 
overlooking something ready-made "? la sprintf". Turns out I wasn't looking 
in the right place -- as thousands separators are country-dependent, the 
"locale" module is the way to go...
Thanks,
fp
-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug  4 01:27:55 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:27:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
In-Reply-To: <3B6B2EF2.86AFBE2E@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108040917031.18150-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Paul Prescod wrote:

>Ironically, I got several emails from corporate virus filters indicating
>that this batch file is in fact recognized as a virus. It obviously
>isn't a virus but Norton is getting triggered on a very ordinary bit of
>batch file text. We will obfuscate the text enough to slip by Norton for
>the next release of ActivePython.

Gee... The world is wrong again. Instead of making OS secure a/v companies
scan data for signatures. So Internet now is not clean media it used to
be... This is utterly silly as signatures are added in tens of thousands
each year.

And now imagine that administators who do not know a bit about computers
and antiviruses will forever suspect ActiveState Python distros and the
company are not trustable 'cuase "they have not checked their software
for viruses".

It does also mean in near future every software vendor will need to make
sure it's software doesn't have virus signatures as understood by silly
a/v software...

BTW, no surprise: Norton Antivirus thinks Kaspersky's AVP is a virus ;-)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 04, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Experience: a name everyone gives to his mistakes." _/




From mikhael at lib-sys.com  Fri Aug  3 16:51:48 2001
From: mikhael at lib-sys.com (Mikhael Loo)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:51:48 -0400
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
Message-ID: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net>

How do you use multiple constructors in a python class.  I'm guesing that it
doesn't involve multiple __init__ functions.

Below is my idea but I'm thinking there must be another method that  is
evading me.

Class MyObject:
    Constructor1(self, number):
        pass
    Constructor2(self, string):
        pass

Help anyone?






From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Fri Aug 24 12:29:40 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:29:40 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241929120.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>; from phd@phd.pp.ru on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:42:58PM +0400
References: <20010824105701.H930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241929120.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010824122940.I930@naxos.starmedia.net>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:42:58PM +0400, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> So we have very good discussion here! I want to stress that SkunkWeb and
> Zope seem to be oriented towards different classes of users. Let us
> clarify the differences.

You hit the nail on the head.

> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > > > Like Webware, Zope uses a threaded model instead of a forking model
> > >
> > >    Forking Zope would be an issue. It is too heavy.
> >
> > On an SMP machine though, this kills performance because of the Python
> > Global Interpreter Lock.  It will only use a minute portion of the
> > other CPUs.  So if you're going to run Zope, basically don't bother
> > with SMP, you'd be wasting your money.
> 
>    I know it. This should be fixed (and will be fixed sooner or later) on
> the Python level.

Very much agreed.

> > > > To call arbitrary code from Zope templates, you have to create Python
> > > > Method objects, which let's be honest, is a pain.
> > >
> > >    Where is the pain?
> >
> > I just want to import and call a function, not have to go through the
> > admin interface to say what functions people can call.  I want to
> > reduce the amount of work I (or others for that matter) have to do to
> > get the site up, running and fast.
> 
>    Hence you think about small secure intranet sites.

Actually not.  I think of large, complex, public facing, database
driven, high-volume sites that have tight deadlines.  That is actually
the environment that SkunkWeb grew up in.  I think it would also be very
appropriate for the small secure intranet sites.

> > > > STML has an import tag
> > >
> > >    Insecure?
> >
> > You don't trust the people who build the website for your company?
> 
>    Certainly NO! Let us see.
> 
> 1. Some people do malicious things intentionally.

If they work for you, they should be fired, and quickly.

> 2. People often do mistakes. Do not allow people to delete important
> information by simple mistake.

Ahhh, but DTML's restrictions do not restrict this.  If you have to
provide a method to delete information to complete your site, you
still have the same situation where they could call the wrong one.
Trying to make something foolproof is an exercise in futitlity as
fools are incredibly ingenious.

> 3. There are outside crackers who will exploit every possible hole.

Obviously so, but giving your template author the import facility
doesn't exacerbate the hole.  They could just as easily break through
one of the python methods.  That is, assuming that you trust your site
authors.  But since you don't, yes that would be a problem.

One could argue that Zope's web based content management system offers
more holes for the outside cracker to exploit though.

> 4. And there are different types of sites and users. Think about Geocite.
> Do you trust its users? :)

Of course not.  SkunkWeb was not designed for, nor is it appropriate for
hosting in that way.

..snip..

>    Definitely yes. Just don't say "Zope is for everyone. Every simple idiot
> can build portal in a minute".

Actually, complex idiots are required :), and they need 2 minutes <0.9 wink>.

..snip...

> > > ZClasses are for simple programming.
> >
> > Wouldn't it seem reasonable for simple programming not to require a
> > class?
> 
>    No. Without a class it is not programming at all. 

Ahem...  You are saying that without classes, you aren't programming?
So this whole Linux kernel is not *real* programming?  I respectfully
and emphatically disagree.



I guess the main crux of this discussion is: 

   SkunkWeb is best oriented towards sites where the site authors can
be trusted not to maliciously mess things up (e.g. where the site
authors work for the company that runs the site).  Contrapositively,
SkunkWeb is not suited to the environment where the site authors may
be hostile.


Cheers, 
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 14:59:12 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 11:59:12 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lgt9j011q1@enews4.newsguy.com> <7x66bkihgv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lnvl6058p@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xn14v6flr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> > don't even have access to C compilers for all the OS's I want the code
> > to run on.
> 
> sourceforge may help with that -- they do have 'compiler farms'
> you can use.  Hard to say, not knowing which OS's you target.

I'm interested in writing some WinCE apps in Python, possibly using
NumPy.  Desite looking at the WinCE Python mailing list on egroups
though, I don't have much idea of the state of the Python WinCE port.


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug  6 03:04:33 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:04:33 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <GHMGHF.9Ft@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108061100030.15124-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Will Ware wrote:

>Roman Suzi (rnd at onego.ru) wrote:
>> To be good for AI, language must have logic
>> programming support. (I wonder if Guido thinks
>> in this direction 'cause this requires adding
>> new keywords ;-)
>
>It sounds like you just want to add a Prolog-esque
>inference engine. Certainly you'd be concerned about
>performance; I think inference engines need to try lots
>of different possibilities to see which match the
>specified conditions. This cries out not for a change
>in Python, but a C module. Perhaps it could be cobbled
>together out of some existing Prolog implementation.

Ye... Something like Logical could be good complementation to Numeric and
Scientific. So much pity I have not mastered SWIG. However, Logical would
require the same or even greater intimacy between Python data and
inference engine. Probably all data types will need to be redone, as it
happened with Numeric.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 06, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "A pessimist is never disappointed." _/




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Aug  9 12:19:16 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 09:19:16 -0700
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B72B804.8E576001@alcyone.com>

Mark Robinson wrote:

> Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and
> deleting
> elements that don't meet a certain criteria.

Use filter to make a new list, and then replace the original list with
the filtered one.

Modifying a list in place while you're iterating over it isn't a very
good idea.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in his neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    Alcyone Systems' CatCam / http://www.catcam.com/
 What do your pets do all day while you're at work?  Find out.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:32:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:32:43 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com> <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lhasl01sek@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xu1z8pv9t.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> If you look at the evolution of Scheme, the designers tried very hard
> to get things right from the start, rather than doing what was
> convenient and fixing it later.

Maybe that's the reason I was using Scheme 20 years ago and am
a Python fan today...?-)

"Common Lisp (with CLOS) and Scheme represent the MIT approach
to design and implementation ... [while] ... Unix and C are examples
of  ... ``New Jersey approach.'' ... I believe that worse-is-better,
even in its strawman form, has better survival characteristics than
the-right-thing, and that the New Jersey approach when used for
software is a better approach than the MIT approach".

The Rise of ``Worse is Better'', By Richard Gabriel --
http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

Gabriel has repeatedly argued both sides of the question, of course.

But it's interesting to notice how many aspects of "worse is better",
once you take out the caricature/strawman sides of it, reflect some
of the approaches of Extreme Programming (XP).


> That's fair too.  Here's something I don't understand: why is it that
> the default value of a function arg is evaluated just once, instead of
> whenever the function is called?  The manual has a warning about that
> and examples of how to program around it, but it seems like poor
> design to need such a warning.

A warning would *DEFINITELY* be needed if default arguments
*WEREN'T* evaluated as part of the def statement -- it would be
absolutely astonishing to me (and to anybody else coming from
C++, I guess); what language, if any, does this kind of 'lazy
*repeated* evaluation'...?


Alex





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Mon Aug  6 21:22:02 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:22:02 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <OF10A9A595.81F5D108-ON88256AA1.000304DD@i2.com>
Message-ID: <3B6F42BA.4E2745AC@ActiveState.com>

James_Althoff at i2.com wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> One question: since class methods have a class object as the designated
> first argument, should there be a convention for naming this argument
> (similar to using "self" as the convention for standard instance methods)
> to enhance readability?  Perhaps "myclass" or "selfclass" or something
> similar?  Any thoughts?

Check this thread:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/690300


-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug  9 10:30:54 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:30:54 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: rlcompleter suggestion and patch
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091825290.2847-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

hello,

I've submitted a small feature request to allow rlcompleter to
do this cool thing:

>>> msg.<TAB>
msg.__class__(   msg.close(       msg.pos          msg.tell(
msg.__doc__      msg.closed       msg.read(        msg.truncate(
msg.__init__(    msg.flush(       msg.readline(    msg.write(
msg.__module__   msg.getvalue(    msg.readlines(   msg.writelines(
msg.buf          msg.isatty(      msg.seek(
msg.buflist      msg.len          msg.softspace
>>>

(do not remember sourceforge feature number, but subject has "rlcompleter"
in it)

I hope I find supportive voices here for this little feature. It makes
easier to know which are methods (callables) and which are just
attributes.

(I invented this 'cause I each time recall if "fileno" is plain attribute
or method...)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Thursday, August 09, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "NEWS! Stolen painting found by tree" _/




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Sun Aug 19 13:58:52 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:58:52 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500
References: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net> <9VSf7.22527$ZM2.2022430@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9lp0e5$2s0h$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Done, of course, I thried with the python builtin tets script:

import cgi
cgi.test()

That assumes this.
In addition, I tested with another simple one that runs (as CGI) with
Apache.

AFAIK, an encoding error does not raise an HTTP error 500 but a mess on the
browser.

Thanks

--Gillou

>
> Make sure you have the folloing (or equivilant) at the top of your CGI.
>
> print "Content-type: text/html" #Or text/plain if serving plain text or
> image/jpeg if serving a jpeg etc.
> print ""
>
> That ought to fix it.
>
>




From ws at dohao.org  Thu Aug 30 07:24:50 2001
From: ws at dohao.org (Du Wellsun)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 04:24:50 -0700
Subject: Thanks Python
Message-ID: <a74b343d.0108300324.58424f4@posting.google.com>

Python is very nice! I like it.


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug  8 15:49:27 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:49:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
In-Reply-To: <slrn9n2nc6.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081547560.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Alexandre Fayolle wrote:

> >How do I reload the * from my_module?
> 
> import my_module
> reload(mymodule)
> from my_module import *
> 
> (the last step may not be required, I've never tested without it)

Yes -- it's necessary.
Otherwise, you will access the earlier set of bindings and 
'xxx' and 'my_module.xxx' will be different objects.

-- Steve M.





From nas at python.ca  Thu Aug 23 13:17:56 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:17:56 -0700
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon>; from dswegen@allstor-sw.co.uk on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:28:05PM +0100
References: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon>
Message-ID: <20010823101756.C10583@glacier.fnational.com>

Dave Swegen wrote:
> So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?

Look through the archives for c.l.p or python-list.  How many people are
worried about this problem?  How many of those are actually using
Python?  People who try it and don't like it are rare.

  Neil



From warkid at storm.ru  Wed Aug 15 08:32:31 2001
From: warkid at storm.ru (Kerim Borchaev)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:32:31 +0400
Subject: Module Name
Message-ID: <3689.010815@storm.ru>

Isn't it odd that "reply-to" for messages from this list is not
python-list at python.org?

Anyway i'm resending it here :
-------------------------------------

  Thanks - it worked.
  
  But what does it mean "module object"?
  When I pass MyModule0Name ( without quotes ) to loadTestsFromModule
  - do I pass "module object" or what?

Best regards,
 Kerim                            mailto:warkid at storm.ru

Wednesday, August 15, 2001, 2:23:48 PM, you wrote:

>>===== Original Message From "Kerim Borchaev" <warkid at storm.ru> =====

>>so the question is : How can I implement addModule?

>>def addModule(suite, module):
>>    __import__(module)
>>    suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(module))
>>
>>doesnt execute any test.  loadTestsFromModule doesn't work - and I
>>can't understand why...

HN> I have no experience with unittest, but I think that

HN>   module = __import__(module)

HN> should work. I figure loadTestsFroModule needs a module object, rather than a 
HN> string, which is what it gets now.

HN> HTH,

HN> --Hans Nowak





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug  9 16:52:37 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 16:52:37 -0400
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ubslpez1m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> writes:

> I wonder if there are idiomatic differences between quotes, but
> who knows? (apart from cases mentioned in the Style Guide)

For me, although initially it was most common to use " due to C/C++ as
an immediate predecessor language, I've moved over to using ' as the
preferred quote - except in mostly two cases:

* Strings containing ' (for which the most typical reason for me is
  writing SQL strings).
* Triple quoted strings (especially doc strings).

I think at least part of it is that ' is less dense than " when
viewing source, so it tends to stay out of the way a little bit more
for me.  And that's probably the same reason I still use " for the
triple quoted strings, as its density makes it easier to envision that
as a single token.

I hadn't thought about it until now, but back when I was a heavy Rexx
(same possibilities) user I ended up in the same state, so I must like
it this way :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 12:55:42 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:55:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261017270.6830-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261244350.23937-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:

>
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>
> >     Adam> OK, after the site-packages searching, I found no match for
> >     Adam> "*gtk*" in /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/ but lots of
> >     Adam> matches for "*gtk*" in /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages Does this
> >     Adam> mean I copy them over?  I'll try that, I don't think it could hurt
> >     Adam> anything...
> >
> > Probably won't work, but I guess it's worth a try.  Much of PyGtk is C code,
> > which would have to be recompiled for 2.1.
>
> I don't know whether you are the person that has been responding before,
> but I heard that 2 variables have to be changed to compile with 2.1.  He
> wouldn't tell me which ones, and when I searched for version with case
> insensitivity on, I found PYTHON_VERSION = 1.5 and changed it to 2.1.
> It still won't do anything with python2.1...
>
> TIA

I've been crunching the aclocal.m4 script (boy are those things ugly...) and
here's what I've found:

It searches for the python interpreter in the following order:
  python, python2.1, python2.0, python1.6, python1.5
then it runs it and pulls out its version. So you have to link python to the
correct one, and then run configure.

I just tested that on my system and it seems to work.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From dinu at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 15 10:40:47 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:40:47 GMT
Subject: Progress on missing features?
References: <mailman.997851264.8185.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7a8953.77896158@news.t-online.de>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:53:04 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote:

>[Dinu Gherman]
>> That sounds like a lot of people need to spend a lot of
>> time to think how to implement something that is more or
>> less a straightforward concept in other OO languages in
>> Python.
>
>Which concept is that?  "class method" means entirely different things to
>Smalltalk and C++ programmers, for example.  2.2 supports both meanings more
>naturally than in 2.1.  If you're familiar with only one of the meanings,
>here's your chance to learn just how "straightforward" a concept the other
>one really is <wink>.
>
>modules-are-powerful-too-ly y'rs  - tim

You're right, it is straightforward in each of them.
In Python it is just absent for the time being in 
the same sense, but as it seems this is about to 
change, too.

Regards,

Dinu

-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 04:23:41 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:23:41 +0200
Subject: newbie question
References: <mailman.998526274.10645.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1536846.yVGOHjE0xQ@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

> Runtime typing can be immensely useful in real applications,
> especially were proxying is involved. Imagine that you are doing some
> work in XML and using various XML libraries i.e. minidom, PyXML,
> Pyana, etc. Each of these has their own DOM implementation and none
> share a common base class. In Python, they can all be used
> interchangeably because their types are not relevant. They all
> implement the same methods with the same semantics so they are
> equivalent. In a static language, you would have to write code to
> proxy between all of these DOM implementations (*). Painful.

The correct way would be to create a difference between type hierarchy 
and code reuse inheritance. This way, you can statically type, but have 
different implementations of this type. Java Interfaces go a little 
step into this direction, but sufficient for some cases.

> * Java helps you out here a bit through their runtime reflection APIs.
> But they are almost as cumbersome as just writing the proxy code.

The java'ish way would be to define the API as Interfaces, and then 
have the appropriate classes implementing those interfaces.

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 02:54:10 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:54:10 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: pydoc&readline Re: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
In-Reply-To: <15212.48876.892231.455321@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051053000.2450-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>    Lee> What is this 'help'?
>
>    Lee> I can do:
>    Lee> print dir.__doc__
>
>    Lee> but for
>    Lee> help('dir')
>    Lee> I get:
>
>    Lee> NameError ...


Oh... My fault! I forgot that I load help in Python startup.

>
>Try
>
>    from pydoc import help
>    help(pydoc)
>
>I have this in my PYTHONSTARTUP file.  Pydoc is pretty damn cool.

It could be even cooler if it supported readline!

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From barry at zope.com  Wed Aug 15 11:30:01 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:30:01 -0400
Subject: PEP 9, Sample PEP Template
Message-ID: <15226.38265.263478.150525@anthem.wooz.org>

A number of people have suggested that there be a standard PEP
template that makes it easier to get started with writing your own
PEP.  This is a good thing too, because hopefully it'll make the
submissions I see more consistent with less initial editorial
requirements (and fewer auto-rejects due to bad form <wink>).

To that end, I've written PEP 9, Sample PEP Template, which is
available at the following URL, and attached below.

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0009.html

Please take a look and let me know if any of the instructions in it
are confusing.  PEP 9 isn't a substitute for reading PEP 1, PEP
Purpose and Guidelines, but it should be considered an adjunct.

feeling-peppy-ly y'rs,
-Barry 

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
PEP: 9
Title: Sample PEP Template
Version: $Revision: 1.2 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2001/08/15 15:28:57 $
Author: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Status: Active
Type: Informational
Created: 14-Aug-2001
Post-History:


Abstract

    This PEP provides a boilerplate or sample template for creating
    your own PEPs.  This should make it easy for you to conform your
    own PEPs to the style outlined in PEP 1, PEP Guidelines[1].


Rationale

    PEP submissions come in a wide variety of forms, not all adhering
    to the style guidelines set forth in PEP 1.  Use this template, in
    conjunction with the prose guidelines in PEP 1, to ensure that
    your PEP submission won't get automatically rejected because of
    form.

    To use this template you must first decide whether your PEP is
    going to be Informational or Standards Track.  Most PEPs are
    Standards Track because they propose a new feature for the Python
    language or standard library.  When in doubt, read PEP 1 for
    details.

    Once you've decided which type of PEP yours is going to be, follow
    the directions in the appropriate section below.


How to Use This Template for Standard Track PEPs

    - Make a copy of this file and perform the following edits.

    - replace the "PEP: 9" header with "PEP: XXX" since you don't yet
      have a PEP number assignment.

    - Change the Title: header to the title of your PEP.

    - Leave the Version: and Last-Modified: headers alone; we'll take
      care of those when we check your PEP into CVS.

    - Change the Author: header to include your email address and
      name.  Be sure to follow the format carefully: your email
      address must appear first, and it should not be contained in
      angle brackets.  Your full name should appear second and it
      should appear in parentheses.

    - If there is a mailing list for discussion of your new feature,
      add a Discussions-To: header right after the Author: header.
      You should not add a Discussions-To: header if the mailing list
      to be used is either python-list at python.org or
      python-dev at python.org, or if discussions should be sent to you
      directly.

    - Change the Status: header to "Draft".

    - Change the Type: header to "Standards Track".

    - If your feature depends on the acceptance of some other currently
      in-development PEP, add a Requires: header right after the Type:
      header.  The value should be the PEP number of the PEP yours
      depends on.  Don't add this header if your dependent feature is
      described in a Final PEP.

    - Change the Created: header to today's date.  Be sure to follow
      the format carefully: it must be in dd-mmm-yyyy format, where
      the mmm is the 3 letter month abbreviation.

    - After the Created: header, add a Python-Version: header and set
      the value to the next planned version of Python, i.e. the one
      your new feature will hopefully make its first appearance in.
      Do not use an alpha or beta release designation here.  Thus, if
      the last version of Python was 2.2 alpha 1 and you're hoping to
      get your new feature into Python 2.2, set the header to:

      Python-Version: 2.2

    - Leave Post-History: alone for now; you'll add dates to this
      header after your PEP has been assigned a number and you've
      posted your PEP to python-list at python.org or
      python-dev at python.org.

    - Add a Replaces: header if your PEP describes a feature that will
      replace a feature described in some Final PEP.  Usually you
      won't need to add this header.  It's also unlikely that you'll
      ever add a Replaced-By: header.

    - Now write your abstract, rationale, and other content for your
      PEP, replacing all this gobbledygook with your own text.  Be
      sure to adhere to the PEP 1 style guidelines, specifically on
      the prohibition of tab characters and the indentation
      requirements.

    - Update your References and Copyright section.  Usually you'll
      place your PEP into the public domain, in which case just leave
      the Copyright section alone.  Alternatively, you can use the
      Open Publication License[2], but public domain is still strongly
      preferred.

    - Leave the little Emacs turd at the end of this file alone,
      including the formfeed character (^L, or \f).

    - Send your PEP submission to the PEP editor, along with $100k in
      unmarked pennies.  (Just kidding, I wanted to see if you were
      still awake. :)


How to Use This Template for Informational PEPs

    - Make a copy of this file and perform the following edits.

    - replace the "PEP: 9" header with "PEP: XXX" since you don't yet
      have a PEP number assignment.

    - Change the Title: header to the title of your PEP.

    - Leave the Version: and Last-Modified: headers alone; we'll take
      care of those when we check your PEP into CVS.

    - Change the Author: header to include your email address and
      name.  Be sure to follow the format carefully: your email
      address must appear first, and it should not be contained in
      angle brackets.  Your full name should appear second and it
      should appear in parentheses.

    - If there is a mailing list for discussion of your new feature,
      add a Discussions-To: header right after the Author: header.
      You should not add a Discussions-To: header if the mailing list
      to be used is either python-list at python.org or
      python-dev at python.org, or if discussions should be sent to you
      directly.  Most Information PEPs don't have a Discussions-To:
      header.

    - Change the Status: header to "Active".

    - Change the Type: header to "Informational".

    - Change the Created: header to today's date.  Be sure to follow
      the format carefully: it must be in dd-mmm-yyyy format, where
      the mmm is the 3 letter month abbreviation.

    - Leave Post-History: alone for now; you'll add dates to this
      header after your PEP has been assigned a number and you've
      posted your PEP to python-list at python.org or
      python-dev at python.org.

    - Now write your abstract, rationale, and other content for your
      PEP, replacing all this gobbledygook with your own text.  Be
      sure to adhere to the PEP 1 style guidelines, specifically on
      the prohibition of tab characters and the indentation
      requirements.

    - Update your References and Copyright section.  Usually you'll
      place your PEP into the public domain, in which case just leave
      the Copyright section alone.  Alternatively, you can use the
      Open Publication License[2], but public domain is still strongly
      preferred.

    - Leave the little Emacs turd at the end of this file alone,
      including the formfeed character (^L, or \f).

    - Send your PEP submission to the PEP editor, along with $100k in
      unmarked pennies.  (Just kidding, I wanted to see if you were
      still awake. :)


References

    [1] PEP 1, PEP Purpose and Guidelines
        http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html

    [2] http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/



Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.



Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
End:




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 15:22:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:22:30 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
In-Reply-To: <3B8A9ABB.77734C2F@lanl.gov>
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
        <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>
        <15242.36734.805100.942581@beluga.mojam.com>
        <3B8A9ABB.77734C2F@lanl.gov>
Message-ID: <15242.40438.61430.874166@beluga.mojam.com>

    Justin> However, for the project I'm currently on, we need to support
    Justin> both Linux and Windows environments. A little investigation
    Justin> revealed that Gtk did not appear to be well supported on
    Justin> Windows. It seemed that someone had attempted a port, but it was
    Justin> troublesome and they weren't going to support it.

There is a Windows port available, but it does lag behind the Unix version.
You might try googling for "gimpwin".  There are both user and developer
mailing lists.  The company I am currently consulting for plans/hopes to use
Gtk on both Windows and Linux.

    Justin> If all these tools are reasonably well supported on Windows,
    Justin> perhaps I can seriously consider this option again. Is anyone
    Justin> using these tools on a linux box to develop GUIs, then running
    Justin> them, reasonably trouble-free, on Windows?

We're trying.  The currently greatest missing bit on Windows is drag and
drop. 

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com  Wed Aug  1 14:35:27 2001
From: Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com (Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:35:27 -0500
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>

Alex writes-

>Right.  Guido's forte is doing the right thing, as opposed to
>rationalizing WHY it's right.  I'd rather have the right
>thing, with weak rationale, than a botch that's rationalized
>to perfection (which is what would happen if _I_ were the
>BDFL, perish the thought).

This is where I started.  Not sure it is where I end up.

Read his last post  on the Changing the Division Operator
thread.  

He takes zero responsibility.

Its all a matter of correcting Tim's bad design advice (was that actually 
in a thread ?, I only saw reference to it) , Moshe's bad PEP, 
misreprentations
 of his own clear words and intentions,  usenet folk, etc.

Kind of hopeless. 

I've stopped needing to like him.

ART





 





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 18 18:00:07 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 15:00:07 -0700
Subject: Nested scopes and lexical closures
Message-ID: <7xu1z5c9lk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I see that Python 2.1.1 lets you import nested scopes from the future.
However, I couldn't easily tell from the documentation whether that
means you can make lexical closures:

  def counter():
    value = 0
    def incr():
      value += 1
      return value
    return incr

This turns out to throw a runtime exception:

    >>> a=counter()
    >>> a()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "/usr/tmp/python-170562C", line 6, in incr
    UnboundLocalError: local variable 'value' referenced before assignment

Of course that's disappointing and I'm wondering if there's some
intention to fix it in the future.  Meanwhile I think the
documentation of nested scopes should be updated to make it clear that
closures don't work.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 20:28:39 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:28:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Follow-up: Win32/Posix file locking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108292006530.1479-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108292027150.1479-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:
> > MAXTIME = 8  # number of secs to retry for a lock before timing out
>
> Eight seconds might be a little long for CGI scripts, but it is writable so
> that's fine.

Hmm, that's not quite right, is it?

Okay, how about passing it as a parameter to __init__() with a default value
of 8? That would do it.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 06:38:08 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:38:08 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b260$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lt52501g6c@enews4.newsguy.com> <9lt8n7$bau$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <9ltdmh01pbb@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Thorsten Roskowetz" <rossi at earthling.net> wrote in message
news:9lt8n7$bau$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>
> > some exhibition of hubris in that realm might also show
> > you exactly why the very use of the word 'lame' as a generic
> > insult, while alas all too common, is also insensitive and
> > degrading to people who have problems walking...
>
> Using "lame" as a way of describing something as "lacking
> needful or desirable substance" <a lame excuse> is not only
> common but a perfectly acceptable use of the word (Webster
> does not list this as slang).  Might not fit everyones taste
> for political correctness though...

I fully agree, except that politics has nothing to do with
it, as I see things -- it's rather a matter of sensitiveness
to other people's feelings, and respect for their humanness,
rather than one of either politics or 'correctness'.

If you don't care whether you hurt the feelings of people
who have done absolutely nothing wrong, please go ahead
and keep using the language style you prefer -- as long as
you're fully aware of your choices, who am I to begrudge
them to you?  Just as long as you _do_ it deliberately out
of callousness, rather than being unaware of the issues...


Alex





From tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net  Mon Aug 20 15:45:04 2001
From: tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:45:04 +0200
Subject: problem opening a file on 2.2a1
References: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <0cprl9.9vj.ln@utolot.toppoint.de>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./p.py", line 12, in ?
>     data = open('data.out','w')
> TypeError: an integer is required
> 
> What am I doing wrong?

Wild guess: you do a "from os import *" in p.py. Don't do this, it is evil
<wink>. os.open expects different arguments than the builtin open.
The tutorial and the python docs should contain s.th. like 
"DO NOT USE from module import *!!! IT IS DANGEROUS!!"
(yes I know, multiple ! r a sure sign of a deseased mind)
:)

HTH
 Marc


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 05:33:44 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:33:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk at 194.238.50.13: 

>> It's the same as 
>>>>> a = (b,c,d) = e = 'wow'
>> 
> 
> I would say that the criminal obfuscation here comes from the ability
> to perform more than one assignment in a sequence; this is almost as
> bad as treating an assignment as an expression.  If we write this as
> 
>          e = 'wow'
>          b,c,d = e
>          a = b,c,d
> 
> then it's quite clear what's going on.  (It's just a=b=c etc I'm
> grumbling about here.)
> 
Except that your rewriting has a different effect. In the first case a ends 
up with the same value as e, whereas your 'expanded' version gives e=='wow' 
and a==('w','o','w')


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From lycos77 at email.com  Fri Aug 31 12:33:03 2001
From: lycos77 at email.com (sender)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:33:03
Subject: for rent - web hard drives
Message-ID: <UTC200108311731.TAA05293@bacchus.cwi.nl>

if you are not interested  press here to remove your address from future mailings:
mailto:recept077 at post.com?subject=remove

if you desire more information please press here:
mailto:recept077 at post.com?subject=moreinfo
========================================================
LARGE CAPACITY WEB DISK SPACE FOR RENT!!!!!!!!
PASSWORD PROTECTED!!!!!
5GB UP TO 200GB



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 11:45:14 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:45:14 +0200
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org> <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com> <15244.63964.173053.634484@beluga.mojam.com> <mailman.999095450.14153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mj2mb01l5u@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Neil Schemenauer" <nas at python.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.999095450.14153.python-list at python.org...
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >
> >     John> Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so
modules
> >     John> are private resources once they're loaded.
> >
> > I might be reading this wrong, and I'm definitely taking you out of
context,
> > but the whole idea of .so files is that their text sections *are* shared
> > among processes.  Their data sections will be process-private.
>
> That's an optimization done at the OS level however.  The process does
> not see it.  I think (perhaps incorrectly) that John is saying that the
> sharing is done in a less transparent fashion on Windows.  Can someone
> confirm?

No, I cannot confirm this -- the read-only code segments are
transparently shared in Windows, too.  Maybe John's point was
that a Windows DLL *CAN* declare it has shared-data -- few do
so nowadays, since a cleaner way for shared-memory for IPC
is provided by memory-mapping, but I'm pretty sure it's still
possible (the flags for that are provided in the "Intel
Portable Executable" format on which Microsoft's .EXE and
.DLL fileformats are based).


> I don't know how this relates to the original question however.

Me neither, actually.  But it's the kind of useless trivia
that's so much fun to debate!-)


Alex





From eberkain at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 15:25:09 2001
From: eberkain at earthlink.net (eber kain)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:25:09 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
Message-ID: <b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b@posting.google.com>

When i run this code 

name= Create('Name')
file= open('%s.btv' % name, "w")

i end up with a file name that has a set of ' ' around the name like so

'Name'.btv

How can i fix this?


From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug  9 23:19:04 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:19:04 -0500
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org> <slrn9n69ao.id9.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7352A8.89CE7E28@seebelow.org>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx>
> wrote:
> >Grant Griffin wrote:
> >|Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are presumably more
> >|suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how to write
> >|the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a
> >|simple way to do that: what is it?
> >
> >''.join(lst)         # Python 2.0+
> >string.join(lst,'')  # Python 1.4+ (or something)
> 
> There is also file.writelines(lst).  It's not documented in my version of
> python, so maybe you're not supposed to use it, but why put it there then?
> It's been there for quite a while now.

OK, I think I've got it now.  The mistake I made in my last experiment
(in another post) was making a list of numbers rather than a list of
characters.

many-thanks-to-all-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug  7 16:16:32 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:16:32 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: How to refresh a page after urlretrive
In-Reply-To: <ffd90607.0108071013.3d472401@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108080013410.6291-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 7 Aug 2001, Samir Patel wrote:

>Friends,
>  I used urlretrieve() to retrieve a page which contains unique
>session id. After processing this page, I did urlcleanup() and call
>urlretrieve() again and unfortunately I am getting same page. If I
>refresh that page through browser (Konqueror or ie doesn't matter), if
>does bring new page. Also if I wait for about 15 minutes or so, and
>call urlretrieve() again, I am getting a new session id. Can somebody
>suggest me what I am missing?
>  Thanks in advance.

Maybe you need to delete file on disk with the page?

   urlretrieve (url[, filename[, hook]])
          Copy a network object denoted by a URL to a local file, if
          necessary. If the URL points to a local file, or a valid cached
          copy of the object exists, the object is not copied. Return a
          tuple (filename, headers) where filename is the local file name
...


Or maybe you are using proxy?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Tuesday, August 07, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "All work and no play, will make you a manager." _/




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 09:01:09 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:01:09 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <20010824084053.F930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241700080.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:37:48PM -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
> > This sounds pretty interesting.  How does it compare to Mason?
>
> Mason and SkunkWeb compare rather well with each other, as they do tend
> to attack the web serving problem in similar ways.
>
>  * Mason and SkunkWeb
[skip]

   Wow! This should be published somewhere as a mini-HOWTO. Nice
observation!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug 13 19:34:10 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:34:10 +0200
Subject: Newbie lists question
References: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not> <mjm9l9.qj7.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <i5o9l9.il7.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:07:34 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:17:57 -0700, Wolfe Maykut <wolfe at spam.me.not> wrote:
>>    Hi.  I'm trying to create a list on the end of a dictionary.   I'd
>>like to have a single loop, but since the dictionary is dynamically
>>generated it appears as if I have to test to see if the key is around
>>and then treat each case differently in order to initialize the loop.
>>It looks ugly.  Is there a nicer way of doing this that I'm missing?

>>[...]
>>    # This is the loop I think is tres' ugly:
>>    if prefixes.has_key(prefix):   
>>       prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>>    else:
>>        prefixes[prefix] = []
>>        prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>
>I don't think this is ugly, it does even get quite nice when rewriting it:
>
>if not prefixes.has_key(prefix):
>    prefixes[prefix] = []
>prefixes[prefix].append(file)

Well, I found out it is possible to write this shorter with the setdefault()
method of the dictionary, but I find it also less readable:

prefixes[prefix] = prefixes.setdefault(prefix, []) + [file]

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 25 04:35:19 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 01:35:19 -0700
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998722657.1161.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xn14oilko.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> Of course.  Try the same thing in Scheme (which you've already confessed to
> knowing <wink>):
> 
> (define (foo n)
>   (let ((a (lambda () n)))
>     (set! n (+ n 3))
>     a))
> 
> (define x (foo 1))
> 
> After that, (x) evaluates to 4 too.  

Well ok, but I thought we had a thread the other day saying Python
doesn't actually have closures :-).  Anyway I was surprised.

> Most Python programmers would write a class, though, explicitly binding an
> instance variable to the value they wanted at the time they wanted to
> capture it.  Like: (example snipped to save space)...
> 
> It's a bit more typing at the start, but more flexible in the end, because
> the state is materialized explicitly (and so open to fiddling via writing
> new methods as requirements change), rather than implicitly hidden away in
> closures.

Yes, let me go up a level and ask if there's a better way to do this.
It's for Tkinter--say I want several buttons that all call the same
function, giving the button text as an argument.  My code looks
something like:

    from __future__ import nested_scopes
    from Tkinter import *

    def press_button (text):
      print 'you pressed %s' % text

    def create_button (label):
      func = lambda: press_button (label)
      Button(root,text=label,command=func).pack()
      # if I put more stuff here and set label to something new,
      # the button doesn't do what I expected.

    root = Tk()
    create_button ("fear")
    create_button ("surprise")
    create_button ("ruthless efficiency")

The point is that from the Tkinter docs it looks like the Button
widget really wants its command parameter to be a function with no
args, so I needed to create a lambda that would call press_button with
the arg I wanted.

What would be best is if the Button widget had a way of passing args
to its command func.  Is there something like that which I missed?

Thanks as usual.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 16:35:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEMOLIAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291626340.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]
> > I am using the following blecherous code to do a conversion from
> > char*s in the form "<a>=<b>" to the form {'<a>':(tuple of '<b>'s), ...}.
> > I'm sure that there's probably a more straightforward way out there.
> > Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can simplifiy this?
>
> Ya, write it in Python -- coding in C is a PITA.  If you need to do it in C
> for speed (whatever), don't be afraid of gotos!  The Python implementation
> has many examples of this, jumping to an error label at the end when things
> go wrong "in the middle".

Unfortunately I have even more pragmatic a reason for doing it in C than
speed; I get the char** for a library written in C, and some days it's just
NOT worth using the struct module.

And don't take this the wrong way, but I refuse to use goto. No, don't bother
arguing; there's no point.

> > ...
> >   PyObject *dict=NULL, *list=NULL;
> > ...
> >   i=0;
> >   while(PyDict_Next(dict, &i, &key, &val))
> >   {
> >     PyDict_SetItem(result, key, PyList_AsTuple(val));
> >   };
> >
> >   return result;
> > };
>
> It looks like you're letting dict leak in the normal case, and gotos help
> prevent mistakes like that too.

Yeah, I caught that one a couple of hours after posting.

> practicality-beats-purity-ly y'rs  - tim

Pfft! You don't know me very well, do you? ;)

> BTW, in cases like this:
>
>     val=PyString_FromString(equals+1);
>     if (val==NULL)
>     {
>       PyErr_SetString(MyError, "Something else most blecherous happened!");
>       Py_XDECREF(dict);
>       Py_XDECREF(result);
>       return NULL;
>     };
>
> PyString_FromString will already have set an appropriate exception
> explaining the difficulty, so it's more work *and* usually harmful to make
> up your own msg (proof:  just *read* your msg above <wink>).

Heh :) I just needed an error message so that I could be certain that I
wouldn't get that silly "No exception was set" message.

I've noticed two big holes in the Python/C API:

1) It doesn't say for all functions which ones set exceptions, and
2) It doesn't say for all functions whether or not they increment refcounts of
     objects passed to them, viz. PyDict_SetString().

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 04:27:31 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:27:31 +0200
Subject: boost::python and shared_ptr
References: <1ritfiny0o.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <9lt61k01h92@enews4.newsguy.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:1ritfiny0o.fsf at video.bsd.uchicago.edu...
    ...
> SomeClass's C++ constructor looks like this:
>   typedef boost::shared_ptr<Base> PtrBase;
>   SomeClass( PtrBase )
>
> So here is my problem: if I create an instance if Derived in python,
> how do I pass it to SomeClass
>
> d = Derived()
> s = SomeClass( d )  //nope: d is not a shared_ptr<Base>
>
> I would expect this problem would arise frequently: Any suggestions
> as to how to solve it?

What about adding (Python-side only maybe) another 'constructor'
(factory, if you will) of SomeClass that's a template?  If your
C++ accepts templated constructors,

class SomeClass {
    ...
    template <class Derived>
    SomeClass(boost::shared_ptr<Derived>) {
        // ... whatever ...
    }

If your C++ compiler isn't up to this it should still be
possible to simulate such a constructor with a factory
function declared to Boost Python as a 'constructor'.  I
haven't tested this, but it seems it should work...


Alex






From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug  8 14:07:21 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 11:07:21 -0700
Subject: Optimizing loops (was Re: Idiom for consecutive loops?)
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9krm84$8ra$1@panix2.panix.com> <3B7160E9.2450CBE7@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <9krv4p$cea$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B7160E9.2450CBE7 at letterror.com>,
Just van Rossum  <just at letterror.com> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> In article <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
>> Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like
>>>
>>>  for(i=3D0; i<lastI; i++) {
>>>    justDoIt(i);
>>>    if( someTest(i) ) break;
>>>  }
>>>  /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
>>>  for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
>>>    doSomethingElse(i);
>>>  }       =
>> 
>> Here's how I'd do it:
>> 
>> flag = None
>> for item in l:
>>     if flag is None:
>>         justDoIt(item)
>>         if someTest(item):
>>             flag = 1
>>     else:
>>         doSomethingElse(item)
>> 
>> I suppose that technically it's slightly more inefficient because you're
>> testing flag on every loop iteration, but it's almost certainly the case
>> that it'll be swamped by the time for justDoIt() and doSomethingElse().
>> And I think that the algorithm is *much* clearer by using only one loop.
>
>FWIW, in Python 2.2 you could write:
>
>it = iter(l)
>for item in it:
>    justDoIt(item)
>    if someTest(item):
>        break
>for item in it:
>    doSomethingElse(item)

Someone else suggested this; I still think that using one for loop is
clearer, more understandable, and easier to maintain.  This particular
example really is *not* two for loops; it's one for loop that does two
different things depending on whether a sentinel has been hit.
Optimizing out the if into two loops is a Bad Idea IMO.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From michael at stroeder.com  Sun Aug 26 10:00:34 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:00:34 +0200
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B890102.1A772D0E@stroeder.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> The downside of CRL checking is it means every single one of your
> secure site visits gets reported to the CA.

Nonsens. Learn that CRL means Certificate Revocation List before
spreading fud.

Ciao, Michael.


From parker at gol.com  Mon Aug 13 10:39:16 2001
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:39:16 GMT
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org>
 <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract>
Message-ID: <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com>

In article <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800 at news-enteract>, Alan Miller
<ajm at enteract.com> writes
>Guido van Rossum (guido at digicool.com) wrote:
>>- after "from __future__ import division", / is changed to return a
>>  float result from int or long operands (and so is /=).
>
>So who's going to write slashnanny.py that will go through old code and 
>warn about existing operations that will be broken by the change?
>
>ajm

Apologies for my hopelessly late follow-up, but I've just checked the
code for one of my projects:

"19 .py files scanned totalling 6557 lines.  13 files contained '/'
(averaging 12.15 in each file)."

This was worse until I remembered (slapping my head) the
"#!/usr/local/bin/python" at the start of each file.  On the other hand,
I didn't attempt to exclude slashes embedded in strings.

Clearly there'll be an effective tool to identify likely areas of
concern, but I hope it won't generate too many false-positives (if
that's the correct way round) and zero of whatever the opposite is.

Regards

-- 
Ian Parker


From Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com  Thu Aug  2 10:55:57 2001
From: Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com (Peter Mayne)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:55:57 +1000
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <9kchf3$meu$1@news.btv.ibm.com>

"Tim Daneliuk" <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:3B667EBA.DA6C298 at tundraware.com...

I've read this a few times, and I'm having trouble matching the title to the
argument.

> But, techno-politics aside, the *best* place to abstract a
> system is *IN THE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE*.

This seems to be the core of your argument, but I don't see this at all. I
gather there aren't too many people here who think that one language, even
Python, is good for everything. Surely the best place to abstract a system
is in the libraries and the run-time.

.Net is the most recent popular example of this. Given the library support,
it doesn't matter what language you use, and you can therefore use the best
language for the task at hand. With .Net, you can use Fortran for the
numeric modules, COBOL for the "traditional" database heavy lifting modules,
and Python.Net to tie those modules together. (Yes, all three of those are
or will be available for .Net.) You can even subclass your Fortran classes
using Eiffel.Net, and subclass those with COBOL, whereas CPython can only be
subclassed by, or from, more CPython. (Or C extensions, which is probably
beyond the scope of this epistle.) Can someone please point out why being
restricted to CPython is better here?

Note that .Net is *not* offering a core language, but a Common Language
Runtime (CLR) upon which you can layer any language you like, and all of the
languages will interact happily with each other. (I'm not recommending .Net
in this post, just using it as a currently widely known example. Nor am I
arguing that Microsoft may or may not be leading you up a garden path - I'm
just using it as a technical example.)

Python may be a middleware language in the sense that it is a language
suitable for many things that it is suitable for (!), but it is not
necessarily suitable for interfacing with other middleware. Another .Net
example: you can write a C# (or VB, or whatever other language you feel like
using) WebServer class, run the right utility on it, or just point your
browser at it, and out pops the SDL for that class. Feed that SDL into
another utility, and out pops a SOAP client stub: instant language
independent client/server code. The run-time transparently handles
SOAP/HTTP/SSL/et al, so you get exactly the same middleware no matter what
language you started with. How easy is it to do this with CPython (as
opposed to Python.Net, obviously 8-)?

An OS-specific example: I once wrote a VMS application in TPU (a language
used for writing editors) for a user interface, BASIC (for handling the
strings produced from the UI), BLISS (very roughly, UNIX:C as VMS:BLISS) for
low level work, and maybe one or two others for their particular
characteristics. VMS doesn't care: an object file is an object file, and the
common calling standard means that each object file neither knows nor cares
what languages the other object files originated from. (.Net's CLR would let
me do roughly the same. Theoretically, so would Java (the virtual machine),
although Sun would prefer us to believe that Java (the language) is all we
need.) As much as I like Python, it definitely wouldn't have replaced all,
or maybe even any, of these languages in that application (even if it had
existed at the time), and I have difficulty seeing how abstracting the
libraries from the underlying operating system into any one of those
languages would have been been the *best* place to do it.

> But, Python has one, very important commercial advantage.  It's
> not owned by a vendor.

An advantage over Microsoft and Sun, maybe, but there are other languages
that aren't owned by a vendor either. Whether you and I prefer a language
that we can actually read, rather than one that looks like modem line noise,
doesn't seem (so far) to be a commercial advantage. ;-)

Much of the epistle could as easily apply to Perl rather than Python, and
the rest could be summed up as "I like Python because of the usual reasons".
Not that there's anything wrong with that. 8-)

Some trivia...

>
> Even the original 'sockets' implementation at Berkeley
> had this in mind - the code has provision (never well/completely
> implemented) for protocols other than AF_UNIX and AF_INET.  In
> principle, we should have seen AF_SNA...

Well, AF_DECnet certainly exists, and I have no reason to believe that it
wasn't well implemented.

> But, for most (systems) things, 'C' is a fine choice.  I've done
everything
> from real-time kernel work to OS utilities in 'C'.

A fine choice compared to what? There seems to be an on-going misconception
that a "low-level" language such as C is required to do "system" things. At
least one OS has been written in Modula-2, for instance. The design of VMS
means that you can write system code in any language you like (MONITOR was
written in PL/I, and the DEC Pascal variant was very nice for doing system
stuff), or indeed, any number of languages in a single executable.

Although arguably lower-level than C, I would choose BLISS (typeless, no
implicit derefencing so no distinction between lvalues and rvalues, an
integrated macro facility that puts the C preprocessor to shame) over C
every time. Sadly, there isn't the choice these days.

Sadly again, popularity ("dominance") and excellence seem to be inversely
related, but I don't need to say that in this newsgroup. 8-)

> - Their [Windows] OS core is so UI centric, it is doubtful that it can
easily
>   really make the jump to being a serious back-room large-scale
>   contender.

No. It has been noted that the Windows NT core is remarkably like VMS, and
serious, back-room, and large-scale are all phrases that have been applied
to VMS. (It has also been noted that "remarkably" may be a remarkable
understatement here. 8-) What *is* UI centric is the Win32 API which sits on
top of the core, and this may or may not be scaleable.

PJDM (Silly Party)
--
Peter Mayne
IBM GSA (but the opinions are mine)
Canberra, ACT, Australia
This post is covered by Sturgeon's Law.
"Tim Daneliuk" <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:3B667EBA.DA6C298 at tundraware.com...
>
>               *** Python Is Really "Middleware" ***
>                          Tim Daneliuk
>               Copyright (c) 2001, TundraWare Inc.
>
>              Feel free to pass it around however you like,
>              so long as you don't change, delete, or add
>              anything, and preserve the author and copyright
>              info above.
>
>
> Introduction
> -------------
>
> There has been an ongoing discussion about how Python, C, and
> many other languages relevance as "systems" languages
> here (comp.lang.python) recently.  This started as a brief (Ha!)
> response, and evolved into the Epistle below.
>
>
> A Little History
> (Or, "Why C Isn't Really The Most Common Systems Language Around")
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I would venture to guess that there is at least as much, and maybe
> *more* "systems code in Forth as in C.  Forth is the language of
> choice for a great many real-time and embedded systems like
> those used by NASA and the Aerospace/Military folks.  It is compact,
> easily ported, very fast, and has a pretty interesting programming
> paradigm (something of a cross between a high-level macro assembler,
> an HP RPN calculator, and C itself).  I'm no Forth expert by any means,
> but it is very widely used - it's just invisible, the way really
> good code should be ;)  It even shows up in general systems programming.
> IIRC, the Mac firmware bootstrap loader is written in Forth (?) and
> I am certain that part of the FreeBSD bootloader is in Forth - I just
> looked at the code a while ago.
>
> For general OS development, 'C' is certainly the dominant language of
> choice nowadays.  But I would point out that the among the very biggest
> body of systems code, that has been around a *very* long time, is IBM's
> OS/390 (or whatever they call it these days - MVS by any other name),
> a big part of which is written in assembler.
>
> As I've mentioned here before, the *biggest* (size of data * work arrival
> rate * number of users...) TP systems in the world (Visa, Mastercard,
> American Airlines, United Airlines...) run on TPF, a special transaction
> OS which is pretty much *all* assembler. (And no, you couldn't get
> a C based OS to do what TPF does even if you did have a couple hundred
> million dollars to redo it, IMHO.)
>
> But, for most (systems) things, 'C' is a fine choice.  I've done
everything
> from real-time kernel work to OS utilities in 'C'.  But... times are a'
> changin'.  Systems languages are great when you need fast, compact code.
> But they crater big time when you have really big development efforts
> (only Microsoft thinks an OS needs to be huge - on most scales, an OS
> is a medium-sized effort, compared, say to an ERP system, a transaction
> manager, or even something as mundane as Payroll and GL).  Systems
> languages also tend to reek when you have lots of programmers involved,
> because the language makes it so easy for programmers to shoot each other
> in the foot (or, in some malevolent cases, The Back).
>
> Before bandwidth and memory got cheap (256M = $39 today), we either had
> to throw mainframes at problems or write in efficient languages like 'C'.
> Well, we don't have to do it for most things any more.  That's why I like
> the 'C'-Python combo.  Python is still a little rough around the edges
> (as the many PEP discussions reveal), but it is a superb general purpose
> programming language, very well suited to the vast majority of
applications
> and utility programming tasks.  It has a way to go in efficiency - we
> really do need, and will soon see, native code compilers - but it makes
> the *programmer* efficient in ways I've never seen in over 20 years of
> doing this stuff.  I've been leading technology teams for the better part
of
> the last decade - this means I wrote very little code myself - and I'm
> amazed at how fast I can sling *correct* Python even with my rusty old
> middle-aged programming chops. (I forgot just how much FUN programming
> can and should be. For an example of how the Elderly program, go have
> a giggle at:  http://www.tundraware.com/Software/hb/HB.tar.gz ;)
>
> Programming language debates have always been with us - you youngsters
> missed doozys in the Assembler-FORTRAN and, later, the FORTRAN-COBOL
> wars.  But what motivates these wars never goes away:
>
> - How do we write more correct, maintainable, code *faster*?
>
> - How do we minimize applications dependency on particular
>   systems and infrastructure choices?
>
> - How do we spend most of our time/energy/money on our applications
>   logic and not the plumbing underneath?
>
> - How do we make enough money so <gender/species-of choice> will like us?
>
>
>
> A Little Philosophy
> -------------------
>
> Cheap Energy was literally the fuel of the first Industrial Revolution.
> Cheap Software is the fuel of this Economic Revolution.  For those of you
> keeping score and who still read instead of watching Jerry Springer, the
> current high tech market behavior is remarkably similar to the what took
> place in the auto manufacturing consolidations at the beginning of the
> last century.  He/She who wins the Software Battle wins this economy.
>
> The winning technology will not emerge victorious because of paradigmatic
> elegance, but because of a proven track record in meeting the criteria
above
> By that measure, C++ is a clear loser.  Perl does well, but not in
> the "maintainability" arena.  Java, started out very well, but is starting
> to show its middle-aged spread because too much about using Java involves
> "optional" additions (J2EE, JMS, EJB, EIEIO...) which have poor
implementation
> track records across vendors.  Moreover, too much of the initiatives in
> the Java world start and end with the Web, even when the intended audience
is
> behind the server.   The really hard/interesting/commercially lucrative
> opportunities are not in/on the web.  They are in the back rooms of
> multi-billion dollar corporations who need way more than a just a shiny
new
> interface.
>
> (For those of you Neo-Marxists in the audience who think that "Information
> Just Wants To Be FREE", I should mention that the survivability of
> any technology has always been primarily a function of commercial
adoption,
> at least in the long run.  How many people write in COBOL today? (Many!)
> How many program in Eiffel? Snobol? ML?  Oberon?  Haskell?  'Nuff said.
> Economic Reality trumps Bad Collectivist Theory every time. Thank-You,
> Adam Smith.)
>
> This, BTW, is something that Microsoft seems to be really getting,
> and then, only recently.  .NET may be a "distributed web infrastructure"
> in drag, but make no mistake about it, .NET is Microsoft's Trojan Horse
> to get themselves entrenched in the *back office* of the biggest
technology
> buyers in the commercial world.  The only things holding them back at the
> moment are:
>
> - They have a really hard time admitting to themselves that
>   the world was/is/will remain heterogeneous.  For .NET to really win the
>   day, it has to run *equally* well on Win32/*nix/MVS/AS400/Tandem...
>   I remember talking to a couple of their Enterprise computing people
>   almost 10 years ago who really *got* this, but were frustrated by
>   the Top Brass' lack of vision.  Had Gates and Balmer even just Rented
>   A Clue on this issue in the 80s, Microsoft *would* own the world -
>   and then Gates could have fired Janet Reno!)
>
> - Their OS core is so UI centric, it is doubtful that it can easily
>   really make the jump to being a serious back-room large-scale
>   contender.  Yes, Win2K is a quantum leap forward for them, but then,
>   it's predecessors were such unredeemable garbage, a (big) step forward
was
>   long overdue.  Moreover, there's more to this picture than a clean
kernel.
>   There are issues of systems management, interoperability, recovery from
>   failure, and such where Win32 is just plain *dreadful*. (OK, your
enterprise
>   servers just Blue Screened.  Every minute of downtime is $1M of lost
>   income.  Lesse now, that's about $5-$10M per reboot for a typical
>   Win32 barf event.)
>
> But... they have a Big Bag Of Money, *really* smart people working there,
> and an unrelenting focus on their future.  (That's why the only way their
> competitors can stay in the game is to go whining to the DOJ about how
> "unfair" the real world is -  And I'm a lifelong *Unix* weenie!)
>
>
> A Big Opportunity
> -----------------
>
> This is the real reason to stay on top of Python.  The vagaries of
> the "Mine is bigger than yours"  battles between McNealy, Gates, and
> Ellison will be with us until they aren't.  Python lives outside
> this Billionaire Battlezone because none of the warring factions own the
> technology and it plays nicely with them all.  It is precisely because
> both Perl and Python have avoided choosing sides in these silly
> ego competitions that they have and will survive.  Just watch, it's
> already happening.  CIOs and CTOs are being asked to make significant
> decisions about their companies' technology future.  Picking .NET
> means choosing C# (yeah, yeah, Microsoft pitches the language neutrality
> of the CLR, but where you you suppose they will innovate? In Perl,
> Python, or C#?)  Picking Sun and most every other Unix, means
> picking Java.
>
> But there's something even more profound here that has dawned on me
> as I've explored Python.  Every serious CIO/CTO you'll meet
> (No, not the ones that don't shave yet and spent Everyone Else's
> Money in the last 5 years) will tell you that infrastructure is
> a necessary evil.  It is applications logic that runs their world
> .
> The problem is that applications live a really long time - 20 years
> is not unusual - but they have to change infrastructure like
> underwear (every two or three years ;))  This means that in the lifetime
> of one business application, there may be 5 or 6 major upheavals in
> operating systems, disk farms, communications technologies, coffee
> makers...  This just *kills* big IT operations in costs. - Not the
> costs of buying all this crap, but the cost of keeping those old
> apps running across all these changes.  And, no, rewriting the apps
> in not a realistic option.  YOU, try convincing the CIO at Schwab she
> needs to rewrite their trading system because you have a "Really Cool
> New OS Upgrade."
>
> To respond to this problem, large IT shops have increasingly
> turned to "Middleware" - a layer of code between the application
> and the infrastructure to "insulate" the apps from the actual
> syntax and semantics of the underlying system.  Examples of this
> include (and these are all somewhat arguable), RPCs, JMS, and
> ODBC.  Even the original 'sockets' implementation at Berkeley
> had this in mind - the code has provision (never well/completely
> implemented) for protocols other than AF_UNIX and AF_INET.  In
> principle, we should have seen AF_SNA...
>
> But, there's a rub.  When you buy Middleware, you are
> (if you did your homework right) removing a large part of the
> dependency the apps have on networking, OS, and so forth.
> BUT, you are marrying the Middleware vendor until that
> application goes away.  Middleware vendors know this, so they
> act like drug dealers: The first shot is cheap - thereafter, they'll
> get their pound of flesh when you HAVE to have the latest version
> of their product to run your General Ledger or Billing System
> on the newest FuzzWuzzy 101 supercomputer (that *still* takes 5
> minutes to boot Windows 3000).
>
> Back In The Day, Middleware was the only way to crack the dependence
> between apps and the underlying plumbing.  The cost of machinery
> and network bandwidth prevented you from having a generic
> Middleware layer between every OS service and the application.
> You abstracted only those things (like networking, especially)
> that you expected would change a lot, because it was simply too
> computationally intensive (== $$$) to abstract everything in the system.
>
> BUT, as I said before, things are changin'.  Machine and network
> bandwidth are really cheap.  What we can now afford to do is
> abstract pretty much all the OS services that modern applications
> need so that they never actually directly touch the "plumbing".
>
> <sidebar>
>
> This is, more-or-less, *exactly* what .NET is all about (and for
> that matter, J2EE).  Microsoft (and Sun) finally figured out that
> the battle really isn't about operating systems or languages
> (those are the "Trojan Horse" to which I alluded above).
> The battle is about  object and content interoperability.
> .NET will "fix" these problems for you, and all you have to do, is
> go down to the Crossroads in Seattle (or Silicon Gulch) and
> sell your soul to, um, ... Microsoft (or Sun), *forever* because
> their middleware will *always* be in your shorts, no matter how
> many times you want to change them.
>
> </sidebar>
>
> But, techno-politics aside, the *best* place to abstract a
> system is *IN THE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE*.  Let interpreter,
> compiler, and library writers worry about the faucets, pipes,
> and fittings of a modern system, and present a unified model
> to applications writers.  To do this, you have to have
> several things:
>
> - A runtime environment that can handle this level of abstraction
>   without killing performance or requiring ghastly amounts of
>   computer to do the Usual Things Applications Do.
>   Why? Because the first sell to The Boss, is an economic one.
>   If you have The Answer, but it needs 30 teraflops to run
>   General Ledger - You lose, thanks for playing.
>
> - A *small* core language with a *big, standardized library*
>   that does most of the Usual Things Applications Do.
>   Why? Because a big language is hard to port and hard to optimize.
>   Libraries need to be standardized so that Applications Do The Things
>   They Do in mostly the same way across different OS, networking, and
>   distribution infrastructures.  You'll never have 100% system
transparency,
>   but you can get close.
>
> - Stability in the core language.  Why?  Because if CIOs hate
>   infrastructure churn, they REALLY hate applications churn.
>   Remember, they want to focus on their golf games, not whether
>   their programming language of choice returns floats or floors
>   in a division. (I just *couldn't* resist ;)))
>
> - A meaningful version/feature control system *within* the language.
>   Why?  So applications can survive across language upgrades.
>
>
> Both Sun and Microsoft will tell you that this is precisely what
> (Java/J2EE, C#/.NET) give you.  BUT, that's cuz they want to
> get married to you - forever - with no possible future divorce.
>
> Now notice, ahem, cough,cough, Python does *exactly* these things:
>
> - The level of programming abstraction is just about perfect
>   for large applications, and the machinery needed to run it
>   is quite reasonable.
>
> - The core language is very small and (reasonably) stable.
>
> - The "Batteries Included" modules approach of Python cover
>   a huge part of What Applications Programs Do and this gets
>   richer release by release.  This Standard Set Of Abstractions
>   is the technical core of why Python is the ideal middleware.
>
> - Constructs like "from future..." give the programmer the ability
>   to build armor into their programs in anticipation of
>   language evolution.  It has been mentioned here, and I agree
>   heartily, that a "requires ..." verb needs to be added to
>   allow the programmer to stipulate what the minimum versions of
>   Python language and libraries are needed to run properly.
>
>
> But, Python has one, very important commercial advantage.  It's
> not owned by a vendor.  So long as they don't mirror the vendor
> systems architecture too closely, CIOs can deploy applications
> which have an excellent chance of surviving Yet Another Infrastructure
> Upgrade.
>
>
> Flies In The Ointment
> ---------------------
>
> Well, it's never really that simple.  Even with something as powerful
> as Python there are plenty of issues that make the Applications-
> Infrastructure boundary forever problematic.  There are also
> commercial concerns:
>
> - If applications are deployed (in ANY language) using a distribution
>   topology and architecture which closely mirrors the underlying
>   infrastructure's topology, migration to other infrastructures
>   is Really Painful (DAMHIKT).  Fer instance, if you write a Python
>   application which depends on socket datagram broadcasting, and
>   then have to accommodate a new (or old) network that does not support
>   broadcast, umm, you have a problem.  SEMANTICS MATTER.
>
> - Infrastructure vendors *always* offer stuff that is hard/impossible
>   to do at higher layers of abstraction.  it is inevitable that real
>   systems will have to reach into the guts now and then to get things
>   done.  The issue here is whether the CIO and team are savvy enough
>   to localize this sort of thing in places that can later be easily
>   changed.  STRUCTURE MATTERS.
>
> - The Pain And Suffering of infrastructure churn has caused more than
>   one CIO to lose their job.  Knowing this, some technology leaders
>   resist doing those upgrades "On their watch."  In this situation,
>   applications are forced to cope with infrastructure deficiencies
>   by coding around them.  This leads to REALLY ugly, hard-to-maintain
>   systems.  CHANGING UNDERWEAR MATTERS.
>
> - As a matter of living in the Real World, it is always preferable
>   to Buy rather than Build applications.  The promise of both
>   EJB and COM+ (and now J2EE and .NET) was that you'd be able to
>   buy at least major subsystems and plug them together with a lot
>   less effort than writing them from scratch.  This has turned out
>   to be laughably not true, at least insofar as behind-the-server
>   enterprise class applications go.  (Who cares about the web,
>   it's just a better VT100 ;)  IN-STOCK AT K-MART MATTERS.
>
>   Now, there's not a lot of that kind of software being vended that
>   is Python-based AFAIK, but there is a kind of Python
>   "Trojan Horse" here we can exploit to sneak in when they're
>   not looking - it's OK, they'll thank us later.   There are two
>   problems *every* large IT shop has.  These problems never go away
>   and anyone who helps solve any part of them will be a Hero.
>   These problems are: 1) Making the old applications talk to each
>   other and to new media like Da Web and Mobile.  2) Normalizing
>   data for exchange between and among old and new apps.  For you
>   XML-weenies: XML, in-and-of-itself, cannot do this no matter
>   how many times you say "semantic markup".  The data I'm talking
>   about it domain specific, requires human intelligence to
>   understand and encode in the first place. XML will help, but
>   we need specialized loaders and tools to do all the heavy
>   lifting.  Crack some part of these two problems - and Python
>   is ideal for both, so long as the performance issues don't
>   get in the way - and you'll live Happily Ever After - or until
>   the CTO starts losing at golf and needs another "win".
>
>
>
> A Little Warning
> ----------------
>
> I worry about one thing and one thing only in the Python world.  It
> is something I have witnessed in *every* new technology I've
> ever seen.  Python is dangerously close to becoming a victim of
> Feeping Creaturism - not so much In Fact, but rather in this community's
> mindset of forever wanting to fiddle one more feature into the
> language.  This will KILL Python commercially if it happens
> because too many variations on the core language theme make
> deployment and management of real systems too expensive.
>
> I, for one, would like to see a date picked for a permanent moratorium
> on the language proper, after which, only bug fixes and new modules
> could be added.  After that date, language changes would have to be
> part of some new language ("Grail"?) which would owe no allegiance to
> Python at all.
>
>
> It is now 4.45am and I must crawl back into my coffin before dawn.
> Flap, flap, flap .... Creaaaak, Slam.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Tim Daneliuk
> tundra at tundraware.com




From guido at zope.com  Fri Aug  3 13:11:36 2001
From: guido at zope.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:11:36 -0400
Subject: www.python.org is back!
Message-ID: <200108031711.NAA03374@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

The Python sites http://www.python.org and ftp://ftp.python.org are
back up, thanks to the energetic help of Thomas Wouters and XS4ALL
(the dutch ISP that's his employer).

We're still fetching some missing files from a mirror, so please be
patient if your favorite download isn't there yet.  We're also still
working on restoring the FAQ wizard and the 2.0 MoinMoin and
restarting the Ultraseek engine (search.python.org) -- I hope this
will be completed later today.

Thanks again to XS4ALL (http://www.xs4all.nl/) and Thomas!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From charlie at begeistert.org  Fri Aug  3 07:59:26 2001
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:59:26 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom>

Mark Robinson wrote:
> Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the ++/--
> operator out of python. It is perhaps my only irritation with python,
> it is just that I hate to have to write:
>
> x = x + 1
no you don't.
> when my whole being just yearns to type
>
> x++
control yourself. Why should you want to type that? It's not necessary
in Python's loops which automatically increment for you.

> I guess it is perhaps not as clear, but I am not aware of it being a
> common cause of errors in C++ or java (doesn't mean it isn't, just
> that
> I am not aware of them). I also miss +=, *=, %=, /=, would it really
> make the code that much harder to read/maintain?
"Incremental operators" arrived in Python 2.0. They weren't "left out"
before just not implemented. Features should only be added to a language
when a real case for them can be made and the PEPs now give a valuable
insight into this process in Python. I like Python because when I read
the discussions I understand why things are or are not there. Check
which version of Python you've got and upgrade if necessary. Python 2.0
and Python 2.1 include a whole set of improvements see Andrew Kuchling's
readme's on the website.

Charlie


From dinceraydin at softhome.net  Tue Aug 14 05:20:56 2001
From: dinceraydin at softhome.net (Dincer Aydin)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 02:20:56 -0700
Subject: PyQt binary for Windows....but?
References: <4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3112302e.0108140120.5df65f46@posting.google.com>

VC6 is needed for C++ development with QT. pyQT has a binary version
for the non-commercial QT. The installer file is
ftp://ftp.thekompany.com/pub/PyQt/PyQt-2.5-Qt-NC.exe (4.4 MB). The
non-commercial QT installer is at
ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/non-commercial/QtWin230-NonCommercial.exe
(10.8 MB), if you do not have it yet.

After installing QT and pyQT , I tried running some of the pyQT
examples but sip.dll could not be found. I manually put it in the
python21/DLLs directory , and all worked fine.

Also, I noticed a small caveat in the non-comercial QT. The main
window caption always starts with "[Freeware]". I noticed that if the
caption you set up has the letters "Qt" (case sensitive), "[Freeware]"
disappears.
 
While not complete, the book at
http://stage.linuxports.com/pyqt/book1.htm may be worth taking a look.

Dincer Aydin
www.geocities.com/dinceraydin/    

bobh at hslda.org (Robert) wrote in message news:<4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc at posting.google.com>...
> I do not have VC6 which is needed to compile the Qt stuff from
> Trolltech. If memory serves me right wasn't this package about a year
> ago with a DLL? I used it then because everything came in the *box* so
> to speak. I really like the way Python works with Qt and would really
> like to use it.
> 
> I DO play on getting Black Adder when it comes out of beta but I
> wanted to get a jumpstart on learning PyQt before the book comes out.
> Oh well...still in a holding pattern.
> 
> Bob


From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Wed Aug  1 00:02:35 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 04:02:35 GMT
Subject: smtp authorization...how to?
References: <3b675617.48549445@news.mailops.com> <orK97.8357$9i1.755330@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20010801.000923.1404196431.12797@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article <orK97.8357$9i1.755330 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "Steve
Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Sorry the news isn't better ... someone may have a patched smtplib you
> can use.

Some one has :) Read my reply to his message.

-- 
"Unix is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows is a
  shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus" - Peter H. Coffin

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From jwbaxter at spamcop.com  Fri Aug  3 18:59:19 2001
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:59:19 -0700
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <030820011559196293%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>

In article <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list at python.org>, Roman Suzi
<rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> blanks in ( ).
> 
> Recent example (from Steven's post):
> 
> '''
> def Files( start ):
>         for file in listdir( start ):
>                 file = path.join( start, file )
>                 if path.isfile( file ): yield file
>                 elif path.isdir(file):
>                         for more in Files( file ):
>                                 yield more
> '''
> 
> Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
> Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
> with the same ugly padding...

When I was writing Pascal code, I preferred
   spam (ham)

Then C came along (unfortunately) and many early C preprocessors had
trouble with the space before the ( if spam was defined as an
argument-taking macro (the silly things looked for 'spam(' literally). 
So the people who like a little spacing put the spaces inside the
parens.  I never adopted that one.

Recently, I've been writing
    spam(ham)
thereby saving all those spaces for use in indenting.  ;-)

  --John
Help stave off the great computer space shortage!


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Wed Aug 29 17:15:47 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:15:47 GMT
Subject: Single Instance of app
References: <mailman.999061303.13019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9oqnik.v2.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> dijo:
> [Tim Peters]
> > I'm not sure exactly what's meant by "atomic lock on a file",
> > but you can study the std tempfile.py module for the excruciating dance
> > needed to create temp files safely.
> 
> [Tim Hammerquist]
> > Thanks!
> 
> Hey, what else are Tims good for <wink>?

<g>

> > I just meant 'atomic' as far as avoiding the race condition.
> 
> Cool.  You have primarily the O_EXCL flag to os.open() to thank for that.

That's exactly what I was looking for.

> > The tempfile module uses the ((fd)?open|close) functions in the os
> > module. I would assume these are closer to the system calls like
> > fopen() and fdopen() than is the built-in open()?
> 
>            Python   C
> -----------------   -------
>  __builtin__.open   fopen
> __builtin__.close   fclose
>           os.open   open
>          os.close   close
>         os.fdopen   fdopen
> 
> The problem is that O_EXCL isn't available to (C) fopen, so the low-level
> open has to be used.  Then the file is unlinked, both so that it will go
> away when the descriptor is closed, and so that nobody can find it *by* name
> via directory searches.  Then we're left with a raw file handle, but Python
> file objects wrap streams; fdopen is used just to wrap a stream around the
> handle.

Ah. Thanks for the excellent explanation. Now I can avoid a few mistakes
that would've been very embarrassing. <wink>

(Another) Tim
-- 
Abel had been dead for a couple of hours now.
But he was starting to feel better.
    -- Narrator, The Sandman


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 16:53:38 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:53:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
In-Reply-To: <jGTh7.21$Ks5.40555@nnrp2.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251652260.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, john anon wrote:

> at the risk of repeating an old question
> (I looked -- really -- I looked)
>
> if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
> from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?

Most likely via cmd.exe, NT/2000's command line interpreter.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 06:12:31 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:31 +0200
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b5ab.211557072@news.laplaza.org> <9lsj6l$qeu$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9ltc6g01o3p@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote in message
news:9lsj6l$qeu$1 at nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
    ...
> I've been worried about popen2.Popen3.__init__
    ...
> In this case, what's the fork/exec overhead?  Various
> pages are modified (eg, incref/decrefs to None, 0, 1, 2
> and various variables; a change to the stack, a getitem).
> Do OSes these days only modify-on-write parts of the
> process or does a modification to only a part require
> copying the whole things.

Modern Linux kernels use page-granularity (I'm not sure,
but I think a page is typically 4096 or 8192 bytes, depending
on your hardware).  I think I recall that was already the
case in 0.98, way back.

A good discussion of memory management in FreeBSD, with
some contrasting comments re how things are done in Linux,
is at http://www.daemonnews.org/200001/freebsd_vm.html.



> (Hard to grep through my paper copy of the Minux source,
> and that's probably out of date anyway:)

What's Minux, a Minix/Linux hybrid...?  Minix was
originally written for 8088 and such chips without
memory-management hardware support, so I doubt it
could afford COW anyway.  Linux was originally
written for 80386, with simple but workable hardware
support for paging VM, so COW and page granularity
were pretty much of a natural choice.


Alex





From steff7 at worldshare.net  Tue Aug 14 03:45:45 2001
From: steff7 at worldshare.net (Lorene Brownlee)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:45:45 -0700
Subject: Attention Physicians
Message-ID: <2682942-22001821474545610@worldshare.net>

Introducing Lytec Medical 2001 The #1 Windows Based Medical Practice Management Solution.

We are pleased to introduce Lytec Medical 2001, the #1 Windows-based medical software solution.  With over 30 newly added features and greater flexibility, Lytec Medical 2001 streamlines and simplifies data entry, enhances reporting capabilities, and improves your ability 
to quickly access practice information.

Lytec Medical 2001 Is A Complete Practice Management Solution And The Most Talked About Practice Management Software In The Country.

Our latest release of Lytec Medical 2001 contains many new and powerful features.  Lytec Medical is now certified and licensed to carry the "Designed for Microsoft Windows NT and Windows 98" logo.  Lytec Medical 2001 for Windows, the most advanced upgrade of the #1 selling Window-based practice management software in the United States to be released since 1992.  With over 22,000 Window systems sold, Lytec Medical for Windows is the most popular medical billing & practice management system for Windows.  Provides functional menu's for submitting your medical claims 
electronically.

Lytec Medical 2001 stands
alone at...$ 671 for the
Single-user version, $ 971 for
the Multi-user version, and $1,346
for the Professional version.
For the Client/Server 10-node
version (Windows NT and Novell NetWare) 
Please call for pricing.

Order today and receive a 25% discounted rate!  
Email us today at   medicalsolution at hotmail.com

We are accepting credit card order.  Complete the buyer and shipping information, print and fax this form with the completed credit card information or mail it to the address below.

Email: medicalsolution at hotmail.com
Via Fax 1-209-391-8806

Or Mail to:

H Beaver
PMB 146, 270 Redwood Shores Parkway
Redwood, CA 94065


BEGIN ORDER FORM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please Send Me Lytec Medical 2001:
Single-user version for $671.00 [   ] [US]
Multi-user version for $971.00 [   ] [US]
Professional version for $1,346.00 [   ] [US]
Plus $15.00 S/H
* - required

Buyer/Shipping info:

*Name: ______________________________________________________

*Company Name: ______________________________________________

*Shipping Address: _____________________________________________

*State/Province & Postal Code: ___________________________________

*Country: _____________________________________________________

*Telephone: ___________________________________________________

Fax: _________________________________________________________

*E-mail Address: _______________________________________________

*Card Type: MasterCard [   ]  Visa [   ]  AmEx [   ]  Discover [   ]

*Card Card Number: ____________________________________________

*Expiration Date: ______________________________________________

(If ordering with credit card, this must be returned with cardholder's signature!)

I authorize H.Beaver to charge my credit card for Lytec Medical 2001 in the amount specified above.

*Signature: ___________________________________________________

*Date: _______________________________________________________

*Name as appears on Card: _______________________________________

*Billing Address of credit card if different than shipping:


City & Province/State & Postal Code:
_____________________________________________________________

A CHECK payment delays your shipment by 5 Business Days for Clearance.

Please fax the completed form to 1-209-391-8806


***************************************************************************************************************************************************************
This mailing is done by an independent marketing co. We apologize if this message has reached you in error.  To be removed please
email medicalsolution at hotmail.com or Fax 1-209-391-8806
***************************************************************************************************************************************************************







From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 17:54:55 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:54:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: equiv from python
In-Reply-To: <9mh27s$dmi$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281753000.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 28 Aug 2001, Dan Stromberg wrote:

> Does c++ have an equivalent to this from python:
>
> >>> import string
> >>> s='ab:cd:efg:ghi:'
> >>> print string.splitfields(s,':')
> ['ab', 'cd', 'efg', 'ghi', '']
>
> IE, can the standard c++ library take a string, split it up on a
> particular separator character, and return the corresponding list of
> strings?
>
> I know I can write something to do this, but I'd rather learn how to
> use the STL or similar, if applicable.

Not with string per se, but you can do it by using for_each() on a
vector<char> and adding the vector<char> chunk to a list<vector<char> > when
you encounter a colon.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From dcinege at psychosis.com  Wed Aug 15 11:53:01 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:53:01 -0400
Subject: Zombies from forked thread process. Why?
Message-ID: <3B7A9ADD.2712EF4@psychosis.com>

Linux 2.4, Debian 2.2/Redhat 7.1 Python 2.1.1 compiled from source.

I have a daemon process that watches a directory for files. When
some appear it decides what to do with them and then spawns a 
processor to handle them. To be speedy it detaches (forks) a processor
for each 'section'. Eveything run perfect, except that when the processor 
process returns it leaves a zombie in the process tree:
IE
root  29065  0.0  0.0  0  0 ?   Z  11:40 0:00 [mss_snort-updat <defunct>]

This is only when invoked by my daemon and not directly by hand.

This is probably all moot as the processors are python based and in
the future I'll just create a thread for each one that is spawned
instead of a seperate process. However I'd like to understand why
this is going on.

Rough code chunk:
----------------------------------------
threadsdie = 0	

def filewatch():
	for hostdir in processordict.keys():
		...
		if os.fork() == 0:  #same result with os.spawnv
			threadsdie = 1 # Thought it might fix it somehow.
			os.execl(mss.snortprocessor,'snortprocessor',tmpdir)
def filewatch_thread():
	while not threadsdie:
		filewatch()
def main():	
	t0 = threading.Thread(None,filewatch_thread(),None,())
	t0.start()
	
	while not threadsdie:
		t0.join()
		time.sleep(2)	# Never race
		t0.run()



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 18:22:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:22:06 -0400
Subject: generating SQL - problem
References: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <LUic7.55496$WD1.3374428@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Lee" <lee.reilly at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B71AA2D.E9D219B7 at ntlworld.com...
> I wonder if someone could offer me a little advice. I have a large
> (155KB) text file holding MP3 data in the format:
>
> Filename with path   ; Title    ; Artistd
> d:\\SRS\\Breed.mp3      ; Breed         ; Snake River Conspiracy
>
> I want to parse this file and create a single SQL insert statement, but
> I am having a few problems. I have the following script, which works
> fine (may not be pretty, but it works ;-)
>
> #
>
,---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--+
>
> # | createMP3SQL.py
> # |
> # | import string
> # |
> # | fileobject=open('newdata.txt', 'r')  # open the playlist
> # | line = fileobject.readline()          # read the first line
> # |
> # | FullSQL = ''  # the final query string
> # | end = 'false' # test condition - true when end of file is reached
> # | while (end!='true'):
> # |   try:
> # |     line = fileobject.readline()
> # |     trackdata=string.split(line, ";")
> # |     file=string.rstrip(trackdata[0])
> # |     title=string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[1]))
> # |     artist=string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[2]))
> # |     SQL = 'insert into MP3s values (\'' + file + '\', \'' + title +
> '\', \''
> # |     + artist + '\')'
> # |     FullSQL = FullSQL + SQL + ";"
> # |   except Exception:
> # |     end='true'
> #
>
`---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--+
>
> When I run this script is takes ~5 secs to process, and when I type in
> 'FullSQL' to display the text (the SQL string) in IDLE it halts
> completely.  It works fine with smaller test data. I am using Python 2.0
> on Win98. Can anyone suggest what the problem is and how it can be
> remedied?
>
The problem is with IDLE's display of very large strings. Pythonwin has
similar problems.

The *real* question would be why you want to create all these statements
when a single one would do.

What you could do (unless you are wedded to huge SQL batches :-) is as
follows (untested hack warning):

import string

fileobject=open('newdata.txt', 'r')  # open the playlist

data = []
while 1:
    line = fileobject.readline()          # read a line
    if not line:
        break
    trackdata=string.split(line, ";")
    data.append(
        (string.rstrip(trackdata[0]),
         string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[1])),
         string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[2]))
        )
    )
data = tuple(data)
dbconn = (expression to open the database of your choice)
cursor = conn.cursor()
cursor.executemany(
    "INSERT INTO MP3s (fname1, fname2, fname3) VALUES (?, ?, ?)",
    data
)
dbconn.commit()

Of course you may want to run the SQL through some databse you only have
text access to, in which case this won't work. But for experimentation you
could get a copy of mxODBC and use that.

I've re-cast your loop into the recommended Pythonic form, which you will
note makes things a little simpler. As to why you would want to see such a
huge statement, I have no idea!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  1 15:30:41 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 15:30:41 -0400
Subject: Memory usage, in droves
References: <9jr62c$16d$1@news.service.uci.edu> <VCf87.34079$EP6.8719749@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <9k85m5$iab$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ulml3inmm.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Danyel Fisher" <danyelf at ics.uci.edu> writes:

> Now I'm sort of curious, though. Is there a way for a program to return some
> space to the system? I'm concerned that if I swell to 79% again in the
> presence of heavy traffic, all the gc in the world won't shrink me below
> that value. Or is this a FAQ somewhere?

That's pretty much up to the underlying VM implementation.  In
general, most systems won't actually take back memory from the virtual
memory space of your process until the process exits.  WinNT (and
maybe 2K) do seem to do this under some conditions but not all.

But as long as you have the virtual memory (and paging space) then you
should be fine once you stop using that memory, since at worst it'll
tie up some paging space but the OS should throw it out of physical
memory reasonably quickly.  So while your maximum VM will appear to
stay large, your working set should reduce nicely.  At least until you
surge again.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Mon Aug 13 13:25:04 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:25:04 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997716920.22470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r63gntgusivel7n51rdh2nmkvh6j1cjfe7@4ax.com>

>Python's potential in education, on the other hand,  is right 
>down the middle mainstream. 

I believe that this is quickly becoming not true. It used to be
the case that Python's relative paucity of forms meant easily
reading someone else's code. That's quickly changing, IMO.



C//



From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 19 16:16:52 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:16:52 +0200
Subject: SMTP
References: <mailman.997956746.8212.python-list@python.org> <3B7BF923.B8E03349@scripps.edu> <3B7C7660.FFF77A13@engcorp.com> <3B801D64.987C4C88@cs.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <1523044.YEL58v44cs@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Richard van de Stadt <stadt at cs.utwente.nl> schrub:

> -----
>> From: MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at xxxxxxxxx
>> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
>> addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't
>> work out.
>>
>> bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk failed after I sent the message.
>> Remote host said: 554 No date field given
> 
> Richard.

You have to append an appropriate Date: Header.

See the Mail RFCs which headers have to be there, and which one can 
leave out.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu  Mon Aug 20 20:01:59 2001
From: owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:01:59 -0700
Subject: Tkinter event loops
References: <3B8137CF.82515CD6@eegsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <9ls8dv$coa$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

What sort of activities did you have in mind? If network or file I/O 
(e.g. pipes to other tasks) then use file events 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/ROTKFolklore.html> (cheat sheet; I 
haven't found a Tkinter reference that describes them). Warning: file 
events are broken on MacPython after version 1.5.2.

If that won't do you, I seem to recall reading that you can get away 
with using threads with Tkinter, but that you must always update Tk 
widgets from the main thread. This may be wrong; I've never tried it.

-- Russell

In article <3B8137CF.82515CD6 at eegsoftware.com>,
 Howard Lightstone <howard at eegsoftware.com> wrote:

>How do I provide the same event handling as the mainloop method while
>still allowing me to "poll" other activities?
>
>Do I use the update method or update_idletasks method or ???


From andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 19:48:45 2001
From: andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:48:45 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F16414E8340atodddexterpinioncom@203.2.194.51>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in
<9k95fh0q0n at enews2.newsguy.com>: 

>"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
>news:pso66c9rpo8.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
>    ...
>> > What is a real world problem that would not have existed if Python
>> > had strict compile-time checking, and how common is such a problem?
>>
>> Here is a real-world problem: a developer wants to use a language with
>> compile-time type checking and rejects Python because it doesn't have
>> it. 
>
>Why is this "a problem"?  Counterexample: a developer wants
>to use a language with an 'e' in the language's name and rejects
>Python because it has no 'e' in its name.  Should we therefore
>rename Python to 'Pethon' to "solve this problem"?
>
>Each developer or development organization can freely choose
>whatever constraint he/she/it/they prefer regarding their
>programming tools.  If this it a problem, it's *HIS* (her,
>its, their) problem, not Python's.  It would be silly and
>self-defeating if Python tried to match such constraints just
>because they are posed as constraints.
>
>If it's worth for Python to have an 'e' in its name, it must
>be because using that letter has intrinsic value within the
>logic of Python, so, you should be arguing about that
>intrinsic value, not about "marketing" advantages that
>may stem from having it, if you want to speak "real world".

Ladies and gentlemen, our quote of the week (so far), is;

>Marketing, by definition, isn't about the real world - it's
>about successfully projecting a fantasy in the minds of
>people with deep-enough pockets to make you rich:-).
>

<flame bait>
and yet, if no one claims to believe marketing why are Bill, Scott and 
Larry so rich?
</flame bait>

At which point I believe it is pertinent for me to run away.

>
[snipping far too much interesting stuff about why static typing is a 
crutch and you should really write your own code properly <wink> ]
>
>
>Alex
>
>
>

Regards,
Andy

-- 
Content free posts a speciality


From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Wed Aug 15 09:22:40 2001
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:22:40 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org><MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com><mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org> <YTzPNDAvATe7EwXf@gol.com>
Message-ID: <3b7a782f$0$250$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>

"Ian Parker" <parker at gol.com> wrote in message
news:YTzPNDAvATe7EwXf at gol.com...
> "19 .py files scanned, 4 affected with 9 instances of the division
> operator."
>
> Now that is much more reasonable, but it is still almost 25% of the
> modules, and I still, if I understand correctly, need to decide which
> ones should be integer division.
>
> For a large project, that might amount to a significant amount of work:
> checking, fixing, testing, regression testing, UAT, change control and
> releasing.
>

Here's an idea on how to avoid that: Replace each instance of / and /=
with a call to a function that emulates old division behaviour. This
could be completely automated.

That is replace each instance of
    E1 / E2
where E1 and E2 are arbitrary expressions, with
    oldstyle_division(E1,E2)

def oldstyle_division(E1,E2):
    if type(E1) == types.IntType and type(E2) == types.IntType:
        return E1 // E2
    else:
        return E1 / E2

- Anders




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 10:27:49 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:27:49 +0100
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On 19 Aug 2001 00:34:15 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
>> Ones you find interesting.
>> 
>> For example, if you are interested in email encryption, you might
>> want to have a look at my herprip program,
>> <http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/herbrip.html>.
>
>Is there some reason you've defined your own protocol instead of just
>using S/MIME or OpenPGP?

My understanding of OpenPGP is that it doesn't provide for automatic
transmission of public keys (which is a vital part of my system,
because my goal is to make encryption totally effort-free for the
user). Nor does it encrypt header fields such as the Subject: line,
nor does it make secret the fact that an emauil contains a MIME
attachment (both of which could help an adversary, e.g. with
traffic analysis).

I haven't looked into S/MIME. Is there a web page with a good usmmary of
it?

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 10:07:02 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 07:07:02 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com>

I wrote:
>> The variable "spam" is an Integer, "Integer" is now a class
>> (unification, right?), so there should be *some* attribute
>> of the class Integer, lets call it __myval__, such that:
>> 
>>     spam.__myval__ == 3

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote in message news:<slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda>...
> Why?

Well .. the hope of unification is that everything follows the
same set of rules. What's a little bothersome about 252 is 
that types are *almost* classes, except (among other things)
their instances carry around this extra information that can 
be reached *only* by their unadorned name. Maybe that's not 
bad. As you point out:

> In designing an "everything is a [...]" type of framework 
> (e.g. everything is an object, or a function) there must 
> be a place where the ideal abstract recursive structure of 
> the world breaks somehow.

The question, in this kind of endeavor, is: "How do you 
ground the uniform, recursive rule in the simplest way 
possible, i.e., without introducing too many new rules for
the ground objects?" 

Terry J. Reedy writes:
> This pep and the next can make one's head spin even without 
> cold meds.

Yeah, and that's what really bothers me. At the end of the
day, I want the Python type model to be so simple that I can 
write its rules on a single page. Type and class unification
*should* be a step toward that, not just a way to add more 
features. Yeah, it's neat to derive classes from types. But
unification should bring much more than that. And maybe it 
does. I haven't tried to write out the new type model, and
when Guido does it, I expect it to be really neat. I'm just
sort of probing around the edges of where the grounding occurs, 
and I'm wanting to see something very simple there.

So here are some questions. Suppose I derive a class from
a base type:

    class MyInt(type(0)):
        pass

    myInt = MyInt()
    myInt = 5                     # Will this work? 

Now I type "myInt" into the interpreter. Does it print out:

    5

Or does it print:

    <instance of MyInt>

Still-on-cold-med'ly yrs,
Russell


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 19 15:16:20 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:16:20 -0400
Subject: getting rid of data movement instructions
In-Reply-To: <15231.16051.450184.416719@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELELGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Skip Montanaro]
> ...
> The line in MAL's table that has me scratching my head is the one that
> indicates about 8.5% of all instructions executed in his mix are
> LOAD_NAMEs.
> My understanding is that LOAD_NAME is only generated in the presence of
> "from m import *" or "exec".
> Either the code that MAL profiled was unusual in this respect or
> there's a lot more of this lookup-busting code being executed than I
> thought.

Quite a while ago Python also generated LOAD_NAME when it *could* have been
generating LOAD_GLOBAL; that was repaired quite a while ago too.  In any
case, it's a waste of time to worry about optimizing LOAD_NAME now ("import
*" isn't even legal except at module scope (see the Ref Man -- it's been
officially undefined since the first Python release!), and "exec" w/o
explicitly naming a dict is at best sloppy practive -- no need to cater to
either).

> ...
>   10915 LOAD_FAST (18.52%)                 3024 LOAD_ATTR (5.13%)
>    6825 POP_TOP (11.58%)                   2615 JUMP_IF_FALSE (4.44%)
>    6704 LOAD_CONST (11.37%)                2430 JUMP_FORWARD (4.12%)
>    4236 LOAD_GLOBAL (7.19%)                2139 RETURN_VALUE (3.63%)
>    4235 CALL_FUNCTION (7.18%)              1753 COMPARE_OP (2.97%)
>    4218 STORE_FAST (7.16%)                  988 BINARY_ADD (1.68%)
>
> I'm not quite sure what to make of the relatively large number of JUMP
> instructions in the static frequencies, but the more frequently
> they occur, the smaller the size of the average basic block will be
> (which limits the range of instructions over which many optimizations
< can be made).

Welcome to the real world <sigh>.  Python actually-- and these stats show
it --has an exceptionally *low* dynamic frequency of jumps, compared to
almost anything else.  The primarly cause, of course, is that it has so many
opcodes that barely do anything (POP_TOP indeed <wink>).  Reduce the number
of do-little opcodes we need to execute, and the relative frequency of
branches necessarily rises.  OTOH, Python also generates jumps to jumps, and
such chains can be collapsed with relative ease.

"Common wisdom" in the compiler biz is that the average size of a basic
block is about 5(!) machine instructions, including the branch that ends it.
So if you raise the dynamic frequency of Python jumps to 20%, you'd be doing
great.  BTW, Intel has produced some nice slides for Itanium summarizing
many of the ways SW and HW can cooperate to effectively increase the basic
block size (register renaming, predicated execution, speculative execution,
loop unrolling & pipelining, and branch prediction are biggies).

This reminds me of the definition of a supercomputer commonly heard in the
80s:  a supercomputer is a box that turns your CPU-bound problem into an
I/O-bound problem.  IOW-- and take this to heart! --no matter what you
optimize, if you do a good job, one consequence is that "the bottleneck"
moves to something you weren't even thinking about.  Or, as Gordon Bell's
First Law of supercomputer design put it, Everything Counts.

so-pick-the-cherries-and-declare-victory<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim





From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Fri Aug 31 17:29:57 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:29:57 +0200
Subject: Python GUI
References: <mailman.999178149.9012.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9movkl$f5r$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.999178149.9012.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Charles wrote:
>
> This is really FAQ!
>
> > Hi
> >
> > What's the best (more complete) GUI library to use with python ?
> > Tkinter ? wxPython ? PyKDE ? ...
>
> Some search in the archives of this maillist or comp.lang.python
> will give you what you need to know.
>
> See also:
>
> http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html

I would have to add:

  http://anygui.sf.net

> > Thanks !
>
> Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
> --
>  - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 10 05:11:26 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:11:26 GMT
Subject: Problems with Threads
References: <mailman.997216332.2935.python-list@python.org> <9kv0fi$ft4$1@panix2.panix.com> <fHMc7.1801$vY7.807999@nnrp6.proxad.net>
Message-ID: <3B73A5BD.10704@ActiveState.com>

Alexandre Perrin wrote:
> I had the same problem recently... In fact, it mainly depends on the 
> kind of thread you are using.
> I'm using Windows and I know that Win32 threads are incompatible with 
> Python (because the Python API is single-threaded), but I heard that 
> POSIX threads work fine.

I don't know what you are trying to say, but Win32 threads are 
completely compatible with Python - indeed, Python on Win32 uses Win32 
threads to implement all threading functionality in the language.  The 
COM support also demonstrates that arbitary threads (ie, those created 
externally from Python) work just fine.

> PS: I also noticed that the different interpreter (Python Idle and
> Pythonwin) are using threads differently...

I'm also not sure what you mean here.  GUI environments do have some 
threading issues, but ultimately all the different threading APIs 
(exposed via the modules thread, threading and win32ui) all boil down to 
pretty much the same thing...

Mark.



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 18 13:54:13 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:54:13 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Case Sensitivity: Survey Results
In-Reply-To: <9llg50$d4o$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108182149210.28782-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 18 Aug 2001, Martijn Faassen wrote:

>Neat survey; of course I also like it as it's similar to my own intuitions. :)
>
>Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
>[snip]
>> Perhaps, if one were designing a language from scratch (which is no
>> longer the case with Python), it would be reasonable to adopt
>> case-insensitivity. It seems there is little benefit to be derived from
>> case-sensitivity (although some respondents felt that precision in
>> approach and thinking, richness in language and naming choices, plus
>> compiler efficiency made sensitivity preferable). So, in the interest of
>> generating fewer error messages, insensitivity may be preferable.
>
>There's one other potential benefit of case-sensitivity in a language,
>which would be case-consistency; just like indentation-sensitivity in
>Python results in indentation-consistency.

I don't like the idea of case-insensitive language, filesystem, etc. I
think, it is much simpler to distinguish identifiers and files with
symbols, without adding equivalence classes {A,a}, {B,b}, ... in
comparisons. This ways it is always clear that A and a are different.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 18, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I am Homer of Borg. Prepare to be... ooooh donuts..." _/




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Fri Aug 17 03:31:16 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:31:16 +1000
Subject: Definition statement
In-Reply-To: <20010817030426.14357.00003436@mb-mi.aol.com>
References: <20010817030426.14357.00003436@mb-mi.aol.com>
Message-ID: <01081717311600.02447@ike>

On Friday 17 August 2001 17:04, Patio87 wrote:
> Im am learning python right know and I have come to a chapter called
> functions and procedures. It goes into detail about the "def" function. I
> canoont seem to understand what it does. can someone please tell me what it
> means.

OK, "def" isn't a function, it's a statement. It's there to tell the language 
to do something, and in this case it's to DEFine a function. The statement:

>>> def foo():
...   print 'hi mum'
... 
>>> foo
<function foo at 0x81331c4>

defines a function called "foo". The function "foo" may then be called like 
so:

>>> foo()
hi mum
>>> 


    Richard

ps. note, in the above, you see the ">>>" and "..." of the python interpreter 
in interactive mode - the best way to learn Python. Just run "python" and 
type in the stuff I typed above, and you should get the same results.




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 11:19:20 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:19:20 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <mailman.998796398.21253.python-list@python.org> <3b88ceaa.496940252@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <0q4iotg9ld08s7850vv3dqfi2hnbefv015@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:23:22 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<3b88ceaa.496940252 at wa.news.verio.net>:

:I'm wondering if _locking requires using _sopen? The Python builtin open uses
:fopen as part of creating the file object, I believe. Example code in
:the msvc++6.0 help re _locking uses _sopen, which provides shared access control.

Hmm. This may be the case???

In an interactive session, when I try to acquire two non-blocking locks:

>>> import os
>>> filename = r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt'
>>> size = os.path.getsize(filename)
>>> f = open(filename)
>>> fd = f.fileno()
>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_NBLCK, size)
>>> g = open(filename)
>>> gd = g.fileno()
>>> msvcrt.locking(gd, msvcrt.LK_NBLCK, size)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
>>> 

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 14:34:21 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:34:21 -0700
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq892.96i.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D35AC.D27F3DD3@ccvcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer Deyke wrote:
> [snip]
> >This looks like a "just plain wrong" result to me.  If you don't care about
> >the least significant digit, this might be tolerable for you.
> >

> [snip]
> You seem to be telling the OP that he's wrong, float(a)/b isn't good enough,
> and he shouldn't be using floating point?

This is exactly what Rainer's point seems to be--that floating-point arithmetic does
not exactly represent decimal numbers.  Well, fine, it doesn't.  The question is...
does it *matter* in this case?  I'd say probably not.  In most of the examples that
have been pointed out, the difference is a matter of 1 in the least significant digit.
I would say that, *any* time that any rounding or truncation is going on, there is
uncertainty in the l.s.digit, therefor this should not be much of a surprise--you're
already throwing away most of your accuracy anyhow.  As for the final example...  yes,
if you use a large enough number your floating-point precision creeps up into higher
and higher positions.  That's part of floating-point, and it *is* something to be aware
of, but it's hardly a good reason to never use floats.  (Note that the first operand
was *well* above MaxInt, and must have been implicitly converted into an unbounded
Long, then converted to a float -- 1e+040, to be precise, so to speak.)  The O.P. gave
no indication that he'd be using numbers of this magnitude, however, and I think that
in most cases that one *would* be using such numbers, the precision of one's input
would be questionable as well...  and if not, then the need for exceptional precision
would be specified as part of the problem.  It wasn't, in this case--the O.P. was
giving examples using 2 or 3 digits, so it's likely that his actual problem involves
numbers of similar magnitude.  Given the problem description, it's hard to imagine how
one could *not* see '%.2f' as "close enough".

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International



From guido at zope.com  Thu Aug  2 08:29:57 2001
From: guido at zope.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:29:57 -0400
Subject: 2.2 features
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2001 19:17:06 PDT."
             <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> 
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> 
Message-ID: <200108021229.IAA28546@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> >   if x in list: ...
> > 
> > looks a lot more confusing.  I may withdraw this idea.
> 
> I'd think again.  The problem with isinstance and issubclass is that I
> can never remember the order of the arguments.  Something
> non-symmetric like "x in type" is much clearer to me, to read and to
> write.

Yes, it's clearer, but it leads to hypergeneralization (dare I ever
use that word again? :-).

To remember isinstance() and isclass(), try to make a sentence out of
it, like isinstance(x, y) <==> x is instance [of] y.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug 29 03:04:15 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:04:15 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999028783.18165.python-list@python.org> <x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <J4Vi7.172382$rV6.8623803@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3b8c306d.718575126@wa.news.verio.net> <jUZi7.176950$rV6.8807005@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b8c8613.740501194@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:11:39 -0400, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
>news:3b8c306d.718575126 at wa.news.verio.net...
>[ ... ]
>> Well, the problem is fp literals are not necessarily as exact as they
>look:
>>
>>  >>> `0.005`
>>  '0.0050000000000000001'
>>  >>> `0.015`
>>  '0.014999999999999999'
>>  >>> `0.025`
>>  '0.025000000000000001'
>>
>> The essential problem is transforming representations into elements of
>> another set that doesn't match 1:1 all over both sets of representations.
>>
Sorry about the pedantry. I just flashed into my representation thing ;-)
>>
>I am quite aware of the inexactness of floating point representations. The
>inexactness that bothers me (and only mildy) is the inexactness of the
>answer to the original question which started this thread. Piotr, you will
>remember, asked how he could represent numbers as strings to two decimal
>places in a file.
>
But following your rule (snipped from prev post):

>... round up if the digit before 5 is evan, down if it's odd. Since this is
>almost 30 years on, I'm sure you'll forgive me if I'm wrong).

Sorry, my post text placement looked, in retrospect, like I was responding
to your phrase about forgiving you if you were wrong (which I would, but I
wasn't sure of the rule without looking it up, which I still haven't ;-).

I was trying to point out that the actual number behind '0.015' doesn't have
a '5' to apply your rule with. So it's either accidental that the result coincided
or there is a Timotheotic adjustment being made prior to the rule application;-)

>There is, as has been pointed out, a perfectly Pythonic way to do this:
>
>>>> "%.2d" % 0.005
>'00'
>>>> "%0.2f" % 0.005
>'0.01'
>>>> "%0.2f" % 0.015
>'0.01'
>>>> "%0.2f" % 0.025
>'0.03'
>
>Given that, in the general case, you don't know whether the
>0.025000000000000001 has been generated by programmed calculation or by a
>numeric literal containing exactly that value, what's wrong with the
>Pythonic way?
>
Nothing. I advocated it in my other post ;-)

>Given that Tim Peters has been significantly involved in developing the
>code, and where numerical computation (and many other things) are concerned
>he has a brain the size of a planet, I don't see why you feel it is
>necessary to introduce such complications into your code to do something
I don't. I think you're thinking of Rainer ;-)

>which is a natural one-liner. I certainly wouldn't bet money on either of us
>being able to come up with anything substantially better in finite time.
>
Yes, it would take too long to decide what constituted better ;-)



From bk at xk7.com  Tue Aug 21 11:14:50 2001
From: bk at xk7.com (Burkhard Kloss)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:14:50 +0100
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <998406891.451155@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>

> Is there a way to loop through the keys of a dictionary (whitout using
> a list containing all those keys)?
>
> e.g. mydict = {'123':[1,9,13],'125':[6,8],'225':[5]}
for key in mydict.keys():
    print key, mydict [key]

should do the trick




From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Aug  8 08:43:14 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:43:14 -0400 
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C8@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

Thanks!.  I will try this on my test machine with test files first.

-----Original Message-----
From: Harald Kirsch [mailto:kirschh at lionbioscience.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 2:18 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Replacing text for all files in a directory


Kemp Randy-W18971 <Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com> writes:

> Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.
> I have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I want
to
> replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump off a
cliff."
> This is a comic example, but I need to do something similar in real life.
> How can I do this in Python, running on Unix? 
> 

Everyone, (even me) seems to be sure that this calls for something
sh/sed/awk like. Nevertheless, I'll try a Python one.

import glob
import re

## loop over all file names in the current directory
for fname in glob.glob("*"):
  ## slurp in the whole file
  fin = open(fname)
  text = fin.read()
  fin.close()

  ## do the replacement in memory  
  s =  re.sub("your pattern here", "the replacement text", text)

  ## dump it out
  fout = open(fname, "w")      # WATCH OUT, THIS DELETES THE OLD FILE
  fout.write(s)
  fout.close()

This is UNTESTED code. Use at your own risk.

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***



From brian at sweetapp.com  Wed Aug  1 15:27:21 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:27:21 -0700
Subject: Bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <3b912589.12116843@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <002101c11abf$fc42da80$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

> Consider:
> 
> class a:
>     def b(self,x):
>         print "call #1"
> 
>     def b(self,x):
>         print "call #2"
> 
> v = a()
> v.b(42)
> 
> This code raises no warning, and can be executed ('call #2' will be
> printed), on Python 2.1.1 (ActivePython Build 212). Bug or feature?

Feature.




From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sat Aug 18 20:39:39 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:39:39 GMT
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <Xns90FEE4C507380rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <9leou8$a05$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910218C28B812rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Mark Jackson wrote:

> Robert Amesz <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> writes:
>
>> [Zeller's congruence and the mod-function]
>>
>> On Python the problem wouldn't have occurred, its mod-function is
>> mathematically correct.  
> 
> Yes!  That was the very problem with the old to-do list
> manager xvtdl, which I fixed back in early 2000; find the code at
> http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson/xvtdl.html.  While
> diagnosing this behavior I implemented the algorithm in Python for
> test purposes, and was led astray for a while by the fact that it
> *didn't* fail!

I personally call that "Murphy's Law of Debugging": just as you need  
things to go wrong, they will go inexplicably right. [*]

 
> Q:  What multiple of 7 did I add to the critical expression in the
>     Zeller algorithm so it will remain nonnegative for the next few 
>     centuries? 
> 
> A:  42

LOL, yes, that should do the trick. And Douglas Adams recently died at 
the age of 49, the next multiple of 7...


Robert Amesz
-- 
[*] Which is really just 'straight' Murphy except that in this case 
right is wrong and wrong is right. If that sounds like the witches from 
MacBeth, well, sometimes debugging is a lot like black magic.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:04:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:04:00 +0200
Subject: Creating EXE file from Python
References: <KWSe7.87478$sM.23388372@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lh92u01qc2@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Ray" <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:KWSe7.87478$sM.23388372 at news2.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> First, I am new to python.  I like to know if there is anyway to create
> standalone executable from *.py ? and How?

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/


Alex





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Aug  6 17:41:56 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:41:56 -0700
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <9kmf5n017da@enews4.newsguy.com> <3b6ee6dc.143803698@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B6F0F23.8D6A2EDA@ccvcorp.com>


Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:00:49 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> [...]
> >
> >Absolutely.  However, I do see BIG ethical questions with a law
> >that allows somebody, anybody, to *patent* genes I may have
> >in my body -- I don't really care about the economic implications
> >of that, there HAS to be somewhere one draws a line.
> >
> IMO the result of reverse engineering God's prior art should not
> qualify for patents. Nor should climbing a mountain give you
> ownership of it, nor exclusive rights to the path that
> any competent mountain climber would discover.
>
> I think there is plenty of room for real inventions.

Well, *in theory*, gene patents are supposed to be *only* for specific practical
uses of specific genes.  This means, for instance, that if company A gets a
patent on the use of gene X to produce protein X(1), and later company B uses
gene X to produce protein X(2), then company B is *not* in violation of A's
patent.  Gene patents are also supposed to be only for synthetic, artificial uses
of a gene--if you are born carrying a specific gene that company A owns a patent
on, they cannot accuse you of being in violation of their patent, or demand
licensing, or any such.  This is a paraphrase from an interview I read recently,
with someone from the US Patent Office--I *believe* that I read it in the latest
Scientific American, but I could be wrong.  And of course, I do feel it necessary
to point out that this is *theory*, and that practice may vary.  (For example,
the limiting of a gene patent to apply to only one product of the gene, is a
relatively recent restriction.)

So, the claim is that this encourages pharmaceutical companies to pursue gene
therapy, without interfering with natural, biological usage of a gene.  How
realistic this claim is, is of course open to interpretation.  It *is* clear that
many major corporations are "stockpiling" patents, simply to hope to be able to
use them as leverage later, and that this practice is particularly bad in genetic
research, so I personally am rather skeptical of the whole arrangement--but at
least it's not *quite* as bad as it sounds at first blush.

Not that this has anything to do with Python.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 10:39:31 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:39:31 GMT
Subject: Adding VSS checkin support to Pythonwin
Message-ID: <3b8cfe6a.3984203@news.t-online.de>

A patch can be downloaded here:

http://www.p-nand-q.com/pythonwin-vss.htm


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Thu Aug  9 19:02:22 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:02:22 +0200
Subject: No default xml parsers?
Message-ID: <9kv4pu$cgh$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

Must support for xml (xml.dom and xml.sax) be compiled
in, or is there some default parser somewhere?
I'm using 2.2a, but can't get things to work...

Python 2.2a1 (#4, Aug  8 2001, 20:43:39)
[GCC 2.8.1] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from xml import sax
>>> parser = sax.make_parser()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/home/idi/f/mlh/python/current/Lib/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 88, in
 make_parser
    raise SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None)
xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

Are there no pure-Python parsers (except in xmllib)? I care
more about "out-of-the-box'ness" than performance here...
(I see that my Windows Python creates an Expat parser, but
I guess that's not compiled in by default...)

Of course, xmllib is probably fine, but since it's deprecated
I'm reluctant to use it.

(Even xml.dom.minidom doesn't work; how about a dumbdom or
dumbsax or something, like dumbdbm?)

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From ack at nethere.com  Thu Aug  2 17:28:45 2001
From: ack at nethere.com (Michael Ackerman)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:28:45 -0700
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3B69C60C.7A5AC3AB@nethere.com>


"David C. Ullrich" wrote:

> Exactly what definition of
> "complex number" do you have in mind here?
> The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
> real numbers".)

If you define the complex numbers C as pairs of reals, you have given at
most its structure of real vector space. Then you must define
multiplication and prove that what you have is actually a ring. But if
you define C as the quotient ring R[X]/(X^2+1), then you needn't do
anything more. This definition is often used, e.g. in MacLane &
Birhkoff's "Algebra", the most categorically oriented basic algebra
text.  

-- Michael Ackerman




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 10:41:01 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:41:01 -0400
Subject: simple ping program
References: <mailman.998553514.21024.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8515FD.3179F0C2@engcorp.com>

noprianto wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know how to make a very simple ping
> program, with option to set the packet size....

os.system('ping')

What did you want to use this for?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 24 23:22:57 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:22:57 GMT
Subject: How big is that canvas in the window?
References: <9m6fks$2blu$1@newshost.nmt.edu>
Message-ID: <3B86C522.169F2868@earthlink.net>

Bob Greschke wrote:
> 
> Here's the idea:
> 
> www.passcal.nmt.edu/~bob/unlinked/images/trdpy.jpg
> 
> It's in Python/Tkinter.  See the "Plot" button?  I want to draw a
> graph in the black area.  How do I find out the dimensions of the
> black canvas area???  I can make a guess when I first draw everything
> by setting the size of everything, but I don't want to do that.  I
> want the user to be able to resize the window and then redraw the
> graph.  I got to exactly this same point in GTK+ and had to give up.
> Am I going to have to write this program in Java?? :-)
> 
> (The program is actually being written for/on a UNIX box.  I just had
> to use a Windows machine to get the screen dump.)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob

I can't view the URL you reference for some reason, but I'll
take a shot at answering your question.

The canvas object is always -logically- the same size: whatever
values you give for the "width" and "height" options when the
canvas was created. It will be clipped if the containing window
is smaller than the canvas, but the contents of the clipped
areas are "still there" (they'll be repainted if they become
visible again). The upshot of all this is that you can just draw
using absolute canvas coordinates and everything will work.
If you need to find out the (canvas) coordinates of a particular
item on the canvas, use "canvas.bbox(<item>)". If you need the
canvas to be scrollable, attach scrollbars to it and hook
them up using the xscrollcmd/yscrollcmd/xview/yview options.

Does that help?

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From paul at boddie.net  Wed Aug  1 07:42:16 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 04:42:16 -0700
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108010342.22378ae3@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at zope.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.996263475.24304.python-list at python.org>...
> Here's a new revision of PEP 238.  I've incorporated clarifications of
> issues that were brought up during the discussion of rev 1.10 -- from
> typos via rewording of ambiguous phrasing to the addition of new open
> issues.  I've decided not to go for the "quotient and ratio"
> terminology -- my rationale is in the PEP.

Having just scanned the version of the PEP referenced from the
mirrored www.python.org, I'd like to make a few comments. Of course,
I'm one of those people who criticised the proposal earlier, but not
for ideological reasons. ;-)

Firstly, I'd like the PEP to be more definite about when the new
semantics become the default/only semantics. Stating a version number
really isn't definite enough, since we've all seen a "bumping up" of a
version number in the relatively recent past. In the historical record
there are plenty of references to "Python 2.0" which should really
refer to the subsequently adopted name "Python 3000", and things could
become confusing should you decide to adopt the "3.0" label
prematurely for some reason in the future.

Secondly, I would suggest a *long* period of transition. Not only are
there going to be problems with programs which are still in use from
today, but there will also be problems with books, articles and
tutorials. At least make the time of "conversion" happen when it's
extremely unlikely that someone will walk into a bookstore and find
the current edition of "Learning Python", for example.

Thirdly, it would be good if you addressed some of the concerns about
type preservation more directly in the PEP. Some people are concerned
about their integers becoming floats or rationals by accident, thus
either losing precision or exploding their memory usage. It would be
nice if some reassuring words could be employed suggesting how this
might be avoided in practice.

You have my apologies if these issues have already been addressed and
included in some version of the PEP of which I am not currently aware.
However, this brings me to my final point...

I feel that most of the "noise" on this issue could have been avoided
had the intentions of the developers been communicated clearly from
the start. To see a patch for some radical new functionality being
issued against an upcoming release, with only scant justification for
its inclusion and little *evident* consideration for the damage
possible to existing code, is almost guaranteed to scare and anger
people.

I can see the benefits of making these changes in the context of a
numeric system overhaul, but what seemed to be communicated was, "This
is going to change because I never liked it in the first place and
can't bear to wake up every morning knowing that it's there." This
doesn't justify some of the comments made on the subject, but it does
justify the sense of alarm expressed by a number of people.

Paul


From grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 21:42:24 2001
From: grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com (Jeff Grimmett)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:42:24 -0700
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
References: <mailman.999058347.5355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2df3d89d.0108291742.56546cb@posting.google.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.999058347.5355.python-list at python.org>...

> With threads, it goes something like this (untested):

Thanks; since eventually I'll have to contend with threads in the
rough, I'm sure, I'll just snip it and stash it away as a nice
starting point :-)

> That's about it - you can put whatever you want in handler of course.
> Also, there's some great code to do all this in the SocketServer module,
> including a mixin class that makes it very easy to do all of the above for
> you (this newsgroup had a thread on this very topic within the last week).

After figuring out my goofs in the original socket code, I looked into
SocketServer.  Was able to put up a telnet server after an hour and a
half of puzzling over the source code (the documentation really didn't
give me a handle on it, but the source is well-documented). Me, one of
my kids, and my wife spend a few minutes merrily pounding keyboards on
three sessions without a hiccup. Of course, the acid test will come
when I get file transfers working through it the embryonic code I have
:-)

Anyway, you're right, it makes it all a snap.

> To handle multiple connections without threads (which may be a good idea
> if you need a higher performance solution and are mostly I/0 bound, like
> if you're writing an HTTP proxy server), you can use the poll call in the
> select module (I think this was added in Python 2.0.

Alas, I'm writing this to work on both Linux and Win32 so I'm
constrained by what isn't available on W32, and the poll object is one
of the things labeled "UNIX ONLY" in the docs. Alas.

> Like I said, this approach works well for higher performance stuff, but is
> a little more involved and makes you approach the problem from a slightly
> different angle.

It's actually the angle I wanted to use, since the old C code I'm
basing all this off of went that route (in a less feature-rich
environment).

Thanks!


From xtian at hyperactive.co.nz  Tue Aug  7 19:43:56 2001
From: xtian at hyperactive.co.nz (xtian at hyperactive.co.nz)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:43:56 GMT
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com> <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com>
Message-ID: <3b707aa4.591122937@news.supernews.com>

On 07 Aug 2001 12:29:03 -0400, phawkins at spamnotconnact.com wrote:
>>>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>AM> def cdr(alist):
>AM>     return alist[1]
>
>Make that:
>
>return alist[1:]

Nope, he definitely meant alist[1] - if you look at cons, it
constructs a (car, cdr) tuple. Which really does do the same thing as
a linked list - the list is a pair of (head, tail) where tail is (a
reference to) another linked list.

def cons(car, cdr):
    return car, cdr

x = cons(1, ()) 
x -> (1, ())
x = cons(2, x)
x -> (2, (1, ()))


(You'd have to do the proper cons(1, ()) to start it off - otherwise I
guess it'd be a dotted pair.)

That's pretty spectacularly neat.

Nice one, Alex.

xtian
No ants, no pants.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 22 19:05:37 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:05:37 -0400
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com> <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <to7dejr8jk4e87@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <FSWg7.1085$54.66815@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Indeed. But the question asked if Python could be used "as Java is used in
the browser". Which I took to mean client-side, not server-side like ASP.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:to7dejr8jk4e87 at corp.supernews.com...
> Steve
> The win32all implementation installs the Python ActiveX scripting engine.
> This means that it can be used in ASP pages without the need for any
client
> to have Python installed.  In cases like that, Python should be installed
on
> the server only where Python is run.
> Maan
>
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > "David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:3B82FB32.258CB937 at theworld.com...
> > > Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?  I
> > > assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is some
> > > sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute
Python?
> > >
> > > I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java, because
of
> > > the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could be
> > > used directly.
> > >
> > The ActivePython implementation, or standard Windows Python with the
> > win32all extensions, allow you to use Python as an ActiveScripting
> language.
> > However, you will need to be able to guarantee that all your clients
have
> > Python installed: is this something under your control?
> >
> > regards
> >  Steve
> > --
> > http://www.holdenweb.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 22 14:54:23 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 11:54:23 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

avenkat at myrealbox.com (Venkat) writes:
> > Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA. You just 
> > have to provide them with some personal information. If you're dedicated,
> >  you  can also get in on their web of trust. That allows you to have more 
> > personal information present in the cert (like your real name).
> 
> Why the hell I need personal cert issued by Thwate/Verisign?

So when you send someone signed email, their mail client checks the
cert and believes it, rather than throwing a dialog saying it has gotten
an untrusted certificate.  Note that those free certs only validate your
email address (which of course is enough in many situations) and are
only good for a few months.

> I can say, all these certs(I call junkies) issued by these CAs are
> meta-certs.

I don't know what you mean by that.


From syring at email.com  Sat Aug 11 01:37:05 2001
From: syring at email.com (Karl M. Syring)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:37:05 +0200
Subject: MatPy win32 question (cephes.pyd)
References: <YgTc7.373338$lq1.79828744@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9l2ga3$75vfq$1@ID-7529.news.dfncis.de>

"W. Jarrett Campbell" <jarrett at engineer.com> schrieb
> I'm trying to get MatPy running on my win32 Python 2.1 installation.  I've
> gone through and installed all the prerequisites per the documentation but
> I'm having some trouble running the tests.  My issue seems to be around
the
> use of cephes.pyd.  The version that I have downloaded requires
python15.dll
> but I'm running python 2.1.  I downloaded python15.dll and put it in my
path
> but when cephes tries to access it, I get a message saying :
>
>
> E:\Python21\MatPy\tests>python test_basic.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test_basic.py", line 9, in ?
>     from MatPy.mfuncs import expm, logm, sqrtm
>   File "e:\python21\MatPy\mfuncs.py", line 1, in ?
>     import SpecialFuncs
>   File "e:\python21\SpecialFuncs.py", line 1, in ?
>     from cephes import *
> ImportError: Module use of python15.dll conflicts with this version of
> Python.
>
> E:\Python21\MatPy\tests>
>
>
>
> Is there a cephes.pyd built for Python 2.1 on win32 systems that I can
> download?  Any other suggestions?

You can get my version of cephes.pyd from
http://www.weihenstephan.de/~syring/misc/cephes.pyd

Karl M. Syring



From david at emurasoft.com  Wed Aug 15 15:21:36 2001
From: david at emurasoft.com (david jansen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:21:36 GMT
Subject: Feedback welcome!
References: <0i8lnt4q3b027nst6us2hlq4pgd2qvrgqe@4ax.com> <9leb5o02m7f@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <jqilntsvvrrear683k0tgnsh6jh8a2g15h@4ax.com>

You are right. Sorry for the omission.

David


On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:23:51 +0200, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It would have been helpful to mention that this editor is only
>released for various Windows versions according to its website.
>
>Alex
>
>



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 09:46:35 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:46:35 GMT
Subject: Copyright Madness
References: <QkKf7.3608$Qh2.775818@typhoon.san.rr.com> <mailman.998209918.31529.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3lgvntgnht2qo5aioi16l2nk1j2eigo7ra@4ax.com>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 04:30:57 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Larry wrote:

>The GPL only puts restrictions on two things:
>
>1) Linked works
>2) Derived works
>
>Neither original programs written in Python nor original modules written in
>Python or C violate either of these.

An original program written in C, if it _links_ with a GPL library,
is bound by the GPL. It's right their in black and white. The LGPL
is less restrictive.

This can be avoided, of course, by not linking with any GPL products.

C//



From garth_grimm at hp.com  Tue Aug 14 20:33:03 2001
From: garth_grimm at hp.com (Garth Grimm)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:33:03 -0700
Subject: Cookies in request object
Message-ID: <9lcg00$6se$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

I feel that I should have been able to figure this out on my own, or by
using the python docs, but I haven't been able to.

How do I attach a Cookie object to an HTTP request object?

Or more precisely...

I have a script that requests and processes a web page...

# Construct HTTP request
h = httplib.HTTP('my.domain.com')
h.putrequest('GET', '/examples/servlet/RequestHeaderExample')
h.endheaders()

# Send request and retrieve response
errcode, errmsg, headers = h.getreply()

# Display the response code and headers
write("<br>Code: " + str(errcode) + "<br>Msg: " + errmsg )
for name in headers.keys():
    write("<br>" + name + " = " + headers.getheader(name) )

# Display the response page
f = h.getfile()
write( f.read() )

This code works fine.  BTW, the target URL is a servlet that returns a page
who's body includes the original request's header information.

The Cookie code I'm trying to test is:

C = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
C.load("chips=ahoy; vienna=finger")

and the Cookie object seems to be constructed correctly, since if I do a
write( C.output() ) I get what I'd expect.

Unfortunately, when I insert the Cookie code just before the h.endheaders()
call above (which is where I think it would belong), the target server
claims I'm not sending a cookie.  I can understand it's complaint, since I
really don't see a command to connect the Cookie object to the HTTP object.

Any help (or requests for more information that may lead to help) would be
greatly appreciated.

TIA,
--
Garth






From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 12:52:49 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:52:49 +0200
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org> <1827265.sRUnXabflU@lunix.schabi.de> <3B73B483.F0D7949B@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <9068560.mcEBGB3zze@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Joal Heagney <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> schrub:

> (((((), ((), ()), ((())), ()))))-ly yr's

This reminds me of something... wait... - a yea, looks somehow similar 
to brainfuck. :-)

If somebody doesn't know the brainfuck language, it can be found at 
http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/bf/

And here a hello world in BF, copied from 
http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/HELLOBF.BF
>+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-]
<.#>+++++++++++[<+++++>-]<.>++++++++[<+++>-]<.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[
<++++>-]<+.[-]++++++++++.

I just have the impression that python will never be as unreadable as 
BF :-)

But now, I should get back on topic...

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From engsol at teleport.com  Fri Aug  3 23:59:29 2001
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 03:59:29 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Reading a file two different ways...from ENGSOL
Message-ID: <3b6b720d.12189167@news.onemain.com>

"""
I'm brand new to Python, and while reading the books,
I tend to bread-board stuff just to see how it works.
I figure it's better to share....
If it's of use to other newbies, great.
If it's in error, please post a correction.
Please excuse the formatting.
"""

#------FILE: file_rd.py

# Notice that "foo" indicates you can name the var whatever you care to

class FileRead:                                   # Create the class
    def __init__ (self, foo_filename):            # Name the variable
        self.foo_file = open(foo_filename, 'r')   # Open the file, and name the handle
        while 1:                                  # Do until EOF
            foo_line = self.foo_file.readline()   # Read a line at a time
            if not foo_line:                      # If EOF, bail
                break
            else:
                print foo_line,                   # Else display the line via stdout
        self.foo_file.close()                     # Tidy up and close the file


def readfile(foo_name):                           # Pretty much as above
    foo_file = open(foo_name, 'r')
    while 1:
        foo_line = foo_file.readline()
        if foo_line:                              # Notice we change the order of
            print foo_line,                       # the IF, just because we can
        else:
            break
    foo_file.close()

#----------------------------------------------------

# Try the two ways to read a file.....
# While in a NT4 DOS box, and directory = C:\python21
# My command line is: python tags\file_rd.py
# Which invokes stuff above and the next two lines:

FileRead("c:\\python21\\tags\\cauxd.tex")  # Notice the double \\'s

readfile("c:\\python21\\tags\\cauxd.tex")

#----END: file_rd.py


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 05:53:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:53:32 +0200
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9l4b510251b@enews4.newsguy.com> <9l4ge0$m0q$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9l5jsd0llq@enews4.newsguy.com>

"jsnyder" <trelis at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9l4ge0$m0q$1 at slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> > But there's more!  If when you click this toolbar-button the current
> > MDI child-window in Pythonwin is one with a module being edited,
> > you don't even have the bother of the file-selection box -- it knows
> > the module you want to import or reload is specifically the one
> > in the current MDI child-window.  Nice, isn't it?-)
    ...
> I'm using IDLE v0.8 and there are no icons.  Are we referring to the same
> thing?

Of course not!  You originally said:

>>> Running from Pythonwin, I am importing a module and then calling its
method.

If you're using IDLE, you're not "running from Pythonwin"... Pythonwin
is a different IDE from IDLE!

In IDLE, like in the text-mode Python interpreter, you have to use
the built-in function "reload(mymodule)" at the prompt.  Pythonwin
is niftier in this respect (I don't know if idle-fork has enhanced
this little but important detail).


Alex





From guido at python.org  Fri Aug  3 13:03:32 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:03:32 GMT
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996845706.16206.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpae1hxeiz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

PoulsenL at capecon.com writes:

> How hard is it to just have a one page redirect to a mirror...  This has
> gone on for several days and it is not a good PR move.  Just redirect the
> home page until it is resolved.

The mirror might not like the full load redirected to it.

Anyway, the new site is up now, thanks to Thomas Wouters and his
employer, the Dutch ISP XS4ALL.  Enjoy!  There are some missing items,
we're getting these from other mirrors as soon as we can.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From mycerius at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 21 13:24:24 2001
From: mycerius at yahoo.com (David AraSmith)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trouble with Tk buttons
Message-ID: <20010821172424.48294.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com>

I have a small program that I am writing to help me
learn Tk. Basicly, I have a frame (inside another
frame)with grid layout that has 2 buttons on the first
row. When you click on one button, another row of
buttons appear (in row 2). The same thing happens when
you click the second button but they replace the first
second row and vice versa. My problem is that when the
second button is pressed and the "new" second row is
displayed, the original second row still shows if the
text is longer.
Here is the code:

from Tkinter import *

class MainFrame(Frame):
   def __init__(self, master=None, **kw):
      Frame.__init__(self, master, **kw)
      self.menuFrame = MenuFrame(self, bd=2,
relief='ridge')
      self.menuFrame.pack(side=TOP, fill=X)
      self.basicFrame = BasicFrame(self, bd=0)
      self.basicFrame.pack(side=BOTTOM)
      self.buttonsFrame = ButtonsFrame(self, bd=2)
   def setBasic(self):
      self.buttonsFrame.pack_forget()
      self.basicFrame.pack(side=BOTTOM)
   def setButtons(self):
      self.basicFrame.pack_forget()
      self.buttonsFrame.pack(side=BOTTOM)

class MenuFrame(Frame):
   def __init__(self, master=None, **kw):
      Frame.__init__(self, master, **kw)
      MenuButton(self, text='Basic',
command=master.setBasic).pack(side=LEFT)
      MenuButton(self, text='Buttons',
command=master.setButtons).pack(side=LEFT)

class MenuButton(Button):
   def __init__(self, parent=None, **kw):
      Button.__init__(self, parent, **kw)
   def setText(self, cat):
      self.configure(text=cat)
		
class BasicFrame(Frame):
   def __init__(self, master=None, **kw):
      Frame.__init__(self, master, **kw)
      Label(self, text='Name:').grid(row=0, column=0)

class ButtonsFrame(Frame):
   def __init__(self, master=None, **kw):
      Frame.__init__(self, master, **kw)
      MenuButton(self, text='Button1',
command=self.setButton1).grid(row=0, column=0)
      MenuButton(self, text='Button2',
command=self.setButton2).grid(row=0, column=1)
   def setButton1(self):
      self.setSpecificBut('A1', 'A2')
   def setButton2(self):
      self.setSpecificBut('Button1', 'Button2')
   def setSpecificBut(self, but1, but2):
      MenuButton(self, text=but1,
command=self.setButton1).grid(row=1, column=0)
      MenuButton(self, text=but2,
command=self.setButton2).grid(row=1, column=1)

root = Tk()

root.title("Temp testing")
root.config(height=200, width=300)

frame1 = MainFrame(root, bd=0, relief="flat")
frame1.pack()

root.mainloop()

I have also tried just create 2 button and to use a
function inside the MenuButton class to just change
the text of each button rather then swapping the set
of buttons but am not having any luck there either.
Thanks in advance.

Dave


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Aug  1 13:17:52 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 13:17:52 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <oqelqvvgvz.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Guido van Rossum]

>   http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

I'm unable to access this document.  I presume this is related to the
hardware problem which is rumored in this list :-).  Would someone have
an alternate URL?  Or a copy that could be forwarded to me?

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Aug 29 09:13:13 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:13:13 -0500
Subject: Why use Python?
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA532F@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

But if you use VB, instead of Python (or Perl or Java), you will be helping
the "contribute to the Bill Gates financial relief fund."

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleax at aleax.it]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:31 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Why use Python?


"CoffeeKid" <coffeekid at pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160 at news.pacbell.net...
> Can somebody tell me why I would want to use Python over VB
> for Windows programming?  I've seen several comparisons between
> Python and other language but not VB yet.

With Python you don't get all the rich environment of tools
that come with VB, but you get a much better language.  And
it doesn't have to be either-or: if for example you like the
way you paint GUI's with VB (I think they look tacky, but
tastes differ), you can keep painting them that way AND still
keep your "business logic" in Python thanks to the magic of
COM.  O'Reilly's book on "Python Programming in Win32" does
a very good job covering coexistence between Python and such
other languages as VB or Delphi -- it doesn't have to be a
one-language world:-).


Alex






From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug  6 22:46:15 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:46:15 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996258291.15055.python-list@python.org> <psog0besc97.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <3b65a820_7@Usenet.com> <9k4l5c$o985@news1.gtech.com> <sLl97.75231$Xr6.349962@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <9k64q501vd6@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b6f56ac.172427147@wa.news.verio.net>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:29:06 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>My basic take on things?  That trying to design "one language
>to bind them all" is a doomed pursuit; that multi-language
>systems are here to stay, and to grow; trying to be all things
>to all people makes a language too rich and complex, and the
>complexity itself weighs it down.  Maybe a language can afford
>optional type-annotations and so on (I truly hope so, since
>I'd love to have them), maybe it can afford multi-dispatching
>(again, I sure HOPE it can!), maybe it can afford sophisticated
>macro systems (and here, I start to have my doubts!), and so on,
>and so forth... but striving to cover *all* the bases conflicts
>inevitably with the SIMPLICITY that should be a very important
>meta-goal of any language's design.
>
It strikes me that a lot of human creations seem inevitably
to go through a Baroque phase, whether it's architecture, painting,
music, gizmos, or programming languages.

One optional type-like hint I'd like to pass to Python's compiler
is 'pure' with respect to a function definition, with a view to
generating an alternate type of code object to live alongside the
existing one. It could safely be ignored, but if an alternative
compilation process were available, e.g., for a particular platform,
then it could kick in.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 19 04:04:07 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 04:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python CGI and multiple forms on a web page
In-Reply-To: <esJf7.135602$g_3.21638770@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108190349460.17808-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:

> I have a web page with many separate forms on it.  Each form is associated
> with a Post action that runs the same or a different Python CGI script.  I
> am using the module cgi.py
> For each script, I am using FieldStorage to access a form's elements.
> I want to be sure of the following:
> Does FieldStorage in the CGI script that is being run by submitting Form A
> (remember, the web page has many forms:  A, B, C etc....) apply strictly on
> Form A so that the Dictionary available to me has only the elements of Form
> A?
> I know, the question sounds naive (and it may be), but I want to be sure.
> Thanks,
> Maan

The short answer:

Only the data in the submitted form is sent to the server. The other forms may
as well not exist.

The long answer:

I dug around in the W3C's info about HTML, and although the above is implied,
it's never spelled out explicitly. Take a look if you want:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h17-13.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From patio87 at aol.com  Fri Aug 17 03:33:49 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 07:33:49 GMT
Subject: What is a Function?
Message-ID: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com>

What is a function?


From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 17:53:37 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:53:37 +0200
Subject: Number precision
References: <630035fe.0108030836.3a27647@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3060483.5Ze9zapYfy@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Buzz B. <kraydl at hotmail.com> schrub:

> Excuse the rookie question:
> 
> x=50
> x/100 results in 0 instead of .5
> 
> Now I can do:
> y = float(x)/100  to get the correct answer
> 
> Is there a way to predefine x as a floating?

No, as variables are not typed.

You could either do one of the two solutions already showed, or use

y = x/100.0

or use a x = float(x) before the division.
 

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From not.this at seebelow.org  Mon Aug 13 13:29:07 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 10:29:07 -0700
Subject: immutable count and index
References: <mailman.997657944.32355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l92p3013dj@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.997657944.32355.python-list at python.org>, "Tim says...
>
>[Grant Griffin]
>> Does anybody know why the "count" and "index" methods are available for
>> mutable, but not immutable, sequences?
>> ...
>> I can't say that I use these two much, ...
>
>Bingo.  Code bloat just to stop random questions about things people don't
>actually want anyway isn't worth it <wink>.

That's fair.

I guess I had assumed that the same machinery could be used for both, so there
wouldn't be much bloat.  But maybe lists and tuples are so different
under-the-hood that it would be pure duplication (as I assume is currently the
case for count/index on lists/strings.)

>If you really have to, you can use operator.countOf on tuples.
>
>> To me, it looks like the thing to do would be to make the
>> general more form used by strings available for all sequence types.
>
>SourceForge is open for patches, but be warned that Guido has rejected
>patches of this ilk:
>
>http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470&func=detail&aid=403693
>#403693 tupleobject.c: implement tuple.index() and tuple.count()
>

Specically, if I may quote, Guido says there, "I'm rejecting this in the name of
all those users who want Python to be small."

But by explaining these things once-and-for-all on the "Sequence Types" page, I
figured we might smallmify Python a little from a different angle--in terms of
its documentation <wink>.

Seriously, though, if the various types of immutable sequences don't share much
machinery, maybe the folks Guido refers to can find an opportunity in that to
smallmify Python itself.

minimalism-is-worth-whatever-extra-effort-it-takes-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:14:08 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:14:08 +0200
Subject: Dictionary viewer and editor
References: <79179cf5.0108101306.739764ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4g0aydhu6.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell) writes:

> Are there any programs out there that can take in a dictionary object
> of arbitrary depth, and display it in a text or graphical tree format?

I think Pythonwin's object browser can.

Regards,
Martin


From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 13:58:49 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:58:49 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq892.96i.grante@isis.visi.com> <MK9j7.54164$c8.24157345@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9oqbf6.lrl.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <MK9j7.54164$c8.24157345 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer Deyke wrote:

>> result of that expression.  The OP was told he could use "%.2f" to format
>> his results.  That's the simplest way to do what he asked, and AFAICT it
>> produces correct results.
>>
>> You seem to be telling the OP that he's wrong, float(a)/b isn't
>> good enough, and he shouldn't be using floating point?
> 
> That is essentially what I was saying.  I read the OP's
> question as "How do I calculate a/b accurately to two decimal
> places?", and that's the question I answered.

I see -- I thought you were saying there was something
unreliable about the "%" operator.  If it's an accounting
application, then he probably needs to be using either
fixed-point or BCD-floating-point math.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm in direct contact
                                  at               with many advanced fun
                               visi.com            CONCEPTS.


From ralf.claus at teleatlas.com  Thu Aug 16 04:55:14 2001
From: ralf.claus at teleatlas.com (Ralf Claus)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:55:14 +0200
Subject: SMTP
Message-ID: <3B7B8A72.4E9089A7@teleatlas.com>

Hello,
how can I give a "subject" to smtplib ?

Thanks for your responses

Greeting
Ralf


From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 21:10:02 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:10:02 -0000
Subject: Changing images and Timers in Tkinter
Message-ID: <9l9tpa+ca42@eGroups.com>

First: I am learning how to use images in Tkinter, and I am creating 
a little test program that lets you change the outfits of little 
people. I wondered if you can change the file used by one image. 
This would allow me to change the image file without making a large 
number of images. Here's what I have right now (changeimage is the 
function that changes the outfit):

   top = Tk()
   top.title("Kuti")
   top.geometry("200x100")

   iKuti = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("body/lighttan.gif"))
   iKuti2 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("hair/brownbuns.gif"))
   iKuti3 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/whiteblouse.gif"))

   cpic = Canvas(width = 40, height = 40)
   cpic.grid(column = 0, row = 0, columnspan = 2)

   cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti)
   cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti2)
   cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

   bChange = Button(top, text = "Change", width = 10, command = 
changeimage)
   bChange.grid(row = 1, column = 0)
   bQuit = Button(top, text = "Quit", width = 10, command = top.quit)
   bQuit.grid(row = 1, column = 1)

   top.mainloop()

Second: I am also creating a little vitual pet that updates its mood 
and image every second or so. Basicly, it uses a timer. I used them 
a lot in Visual Basic, and I wondered if there was such a thing in 
Tkinter. I don't know how time.sleep() would work, and it seems I 
need an event. Is there a way to do this?





From jessw at loop.com  Thu Aug 23 15:12:58 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:12:58 -0700
Subject: Downloading alpha releases; a good idea?
Message-ID: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>

I am a hobby user of Python.
How unstable are alpha releases?  I now have Python 2.0 and am 
thinking about updating.  Should I go to 2.1(.1, of course), wait for 
2.2 final, or get 2.2.a2 which is out now?  And if I go with 2.1.1 
should I update to 2.2 final when it comes out?

	Any comments would be appreciated,
		Jesse W



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Aug  4 18:46:23 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:46:23 -0400
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net> <etdu1zoddw4.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <GU_a7.11610$5j7.678446@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Alex" <new_name at mit.edu> wrote in message
news:etdu1zoddw4.fsf at lola-granola.mit.edu...
>
> import types
>
> Class MyObject:
>     Constructor1(self, number):
>         pass
>     Constructor2(self, string):
>         pass
>
>     def __init__(self, initarg):
>
>         if type(initarg) == types.StringType:
>             self.Constructor1(initarg)

What were you saying last week about people who used this construct needing
to be stood up against the wall and shot (I'm paraphrasing a little here)?

>         elif type(initarg) in (types.IntType,
>                                types.FloatType,
>                                types.ComplexType):
>             self.Constructor2(initarg)
>
regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


.




From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 19:31:38 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:31:38 GMT
Subject: Follow-up: Win32/Posix file locking
Message-ID: <t7uqot8n8gjm03r2m03md8kfsjuauchqhu@4ax.com>

OK, to follow up the other two threads that I've recently started on the
topic of cross-platform file locking, I will share the code that I am
currently working with. I believe that I have solved my problem. I've
tested the code on both Win98 and Linux and it seems to work.

Ignacio suggested that I rename the module to something having to do
with Mutex objects, rather than file locking, and I have done so. The
idea is to acquire a lock on some Mutex before trying to write to a
datafile.

Here is the parent class:

-----------------------(begin MutexFile.py)--------------------------
'''MutexFile.py

wraps WinMutexFile.py and posixMutexFile.py to provide
a single interface for working with mutex files
across win32 and posix platforms.
Does not support fine-grained locking.
Recommended for getting a lock on a sentinel file
before trying to read/write data to a separate data file.
'''
import os

if os.name == 'nt':
     from winMutexFile import mutexfile
elif os.name == 'posix':
     from posixMutexFile import mutexfile
else:
    raise ImportError, "MutexFile is not supported on your platform."


class MutexFile(mutexfile):
    pass
-----------------------(end MutexFile.py)--------------------------


Below I present the two platform specific modules that implement the
file locking. I've used non-blocking locks with retries and time outs.
I've tried to handle a process crashing by coding a __del___ function
for the object. If anyone has feedback, I'm more than interested in
hearing it.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/

----------------------(begin posixMutexFile.py)----------------------
''' posixMutexFile.py

class lockfile
supports the same function calls as
winLock.lockfile
export to LockFile.py: a wrapper module
around the win and posix mutexfiles
'''

import os, fcntl
from time import time

MAXTIME = 8  # number of secs to retry for a lock before timing out

class mutexfile:
    def __init__(self, filename):
        if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
            self.filename = filename
        else:
            errmssg = filename + \
				" does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def __del__(self):
        try:
            self.unlock()
        except:
            pass
        try:
            self.f.close()
        except:
            pass
        if hasattr(self, 'fd'):
            del self.fd

    def getReadLock(self):
        start_time = time()
        while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
            try:
                self.f = open(self.filename, 'r')
                self.fd = self.f.fileno()
                fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_SH | fcntl.LOCK_NB)
                return 1
            except:
                self.f.close()
                del self.fd
        if not hasattr(self, 'fd'):
            errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def getWriteLock(self):
        start_time = time()
        while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
            try:
                self.f = open(self.filename, 'r+')
                self.fd = self.f.fileno()
                fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX | fcntl.LOCK_NB)
                return 1
            except:
                self.f.close()
                del self.fd
        if not hasattr(self, 'fd'):
            errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def unlock(self):
        fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_UN)
        self.f.close()
        del self.fd

    def flock(self, flag):
        '''flags are:
        LOCK_UN - unlock
        LOCK_SH - acquire a shared (or read) lock
        LOCK_EX - acquire an exclusive (or write) lock
        '''
        if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
            self.getReadLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
            self.getWriteLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
            self.unlock()
        else:
            errmssg = "The flag " + flag + \
				" is not implemented for flock"
            raise NotImplementedError, errmssg
----------------------(end posixMutexFile.py)----------------------

----------------------(begin winMutexFile.py)----------------------
''' winMutexFile.py

class lockfile
supports the same function calls as
posixLock.lockobject
export to lockobject.py: a wrapper module
around the win and posix lockobjects
'''
import os
from time import time

try:
    import win32file
    from win32con import GENERIC_READ, GENERIC_WRITE,\
        FILE_SHARE_READ, OPEN_EXISTING, FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL
except ImportError, e:
    print e
    print "winMutexFile.py requires ActiveState.com Python win32
extensions"

MAXTIME = 8  # number of secs to retry for a lock before timing out

class mutexfile:
    def __init__(self, filename):
        if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
            self.filename = filename
        else:
            errmssg = filename + \
				" does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def __del__(self):
        try:
            self.unlock()
        except:
            pass
        try:
            self.f.close()
        except:
            pass
        if hasattr(self, 'fd'):
            del self.fd

    def getReadLock(self):
        start_time = time()
        while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
            try:
                self.fd = win32file.CreateFile(self.filename,\
											  GENERIC_READ,\
                                              FILE_SHARE_READ, None,\
											  OPEN_EXISTING,\
                                              FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, 0)
                return 1
            except:
                pass
        if not hasattr(self, 'fd'):
            errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def getWriteLock(self):
        start_time = time()
        while time() - start_time < MAXTIME:
            try:
                self.fd = win32file.CreateFile(self.filename,\
											  GENERIC_READ,\
                                              0, None, OPEN_EXISTING,\
                                              FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL, 0)
                return 1
            except:
                pass
        if not hasattr(self,'fd'):
            errmssg = self.filename + " temporarily unavailable"
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def unlock(self):
        win32file.CloseHandle(self.fd)
        del self.fd

    def flock(self, flag):
        '''flags are:
        LOCK_UN - unlock
        LOCK_SH - acquire a shared (or read) lock
        LOCK_EX - acquire an exclusive (or write) lock
        '''
        if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
            self.getReadLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
            self.getWriteLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
            self.unlock()
        else:
            errmssg = "The flag " + flag + \
				" is not implemented for flock"
            raise NotImplementedError, errmssg

----------------------(end winMutexFile.py)----------------------


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  8 04:46:17 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:46:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com> <mailman.996787686.29273.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F554E3E4346michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3b6ea347.838398@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F763B569000michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) wrote in
news:3b6ea347.838398 at nntp.sprynet.com: 

> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:18:56 +0000 (UTC), Michael Abbott
> <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Why "probably": Of course it's impossible to use the mathematical
> R[X]/(X^2+1) literally; the elements are equivalence classes of
> polynomials, in particular a complex number is an infinite set
> of polynomials, and hence would take too much storage space.

No, no, it's not impossible at all.  You simply use one representative at a 
time to represent a value, but use the relation when you need to decide 
whether or not two values are equal.

So, if we want to represent S/R where S is a set and R is an equivalence 
relation on S then we simply use elements of S, but use R to implement the 
equality test.

Obviously, if there's a canonical choice of a representative, then we can 
just use that and not take time to compute R.

> Here there _is_ a natural choice of one polynomial to use
> from each equivalence class, but if you use that one your
> complex numbers have become precisely pairs of reals.

Quite so.



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Aug  2 15:46:46 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:46:46 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G6ia7.76096$Cy.10932606@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

One sort of not particularly well though idea that popped into my head while
reading this is: why not attach the instance and subclass tests to Class
objects. Since presumably all classes and types could (will?) inherit from a
common base class/type in 2.2, this seems feasible at least. The names would
have to be changed to make this work; something like

isinstance(anInstance, aClass) => aClass.classof(anInstance)
isubclass(aSubclass, aBaseclass) => aBaseclass.superclassof(aSubclass)

I'm not sure what that's worth, but I figured I'd toss it to out into the
ring.

-tim

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at zope.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.996777043.30213.python-list at python.org...
> > >   if x in list: ...
> > >
> > > looks a lot more confusing.  I may withdraw this idea.
> >
> > I'd think again.  The problem with isinstance and issubclass is that I
> > can never remember the order of the arguments.  Something
> > non-symmetric like "x in type" is much clearer to me, to read and to
> > write.
>
> Yes, it's clearer, but it leads to hypergeneralization (dare I ever
> use that word again? :-).
>
> To remember isinstance() and isclass(), try to make a sentence out of
> it, like isinstance(x, y) <==> x is instance [of] y.
>
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 15:45:44 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:45:44 -0500
Subject: Example wanted for inspect module
In-Reply-To: <B5yg7.303492$Do6.12699793@nnrp4.clara.net>
References: <B5yg7.303492$Do6.12699793@nnrp4.clara.net>
Message-ID: <15234.47720.721460.692841@beluga.mojam.com>

    richard> Could somebody please provide an example of how the predicate
    richard> is used (for example - to get only the functions from a
    richard> module).

How about (only lightly tested):

    import types, inspect, Tkinter

    def isfunction(obj):
        return isinstance(obj, types.FunctionType)

    print inspect.getmembers(Tkinter, isfunction)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug 21 23:09:39 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:09:39 GMT
Subject: Pythonwin does not run on my machine
References: <mailman.998443952.32658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <se86otcpcg56hs78f9ed6ondg29ue82a74@4ax.com>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:29:12 +1000, Kim C Tran <KCT at EMIA.com.au> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998443952.32658.python-list at python.org>:

:Hi,
:
:I had installed python21 and I have no problem running the Python.exe 
:but PythonW.exe(Pythonwin) does not run at all.
:Am I missing out something ?? My computer is window NT

Pythonw.exe is just the same python interpreter as python.exe, except
that it hides the MSDOS console window.

PythonWin is a completely separate program (unless you downloaded and
installed ActiveState Python, in which case it is included).

Look on your Start Menu, under programs. You should find Python21 listed
there somewhere. Select that, and you should see
Python GUI (IDLE)
Python Command Line
several documentation choices

AND 

IF PythonWin is installed on your system, then under
Start > Programs > Python21

You will also see PythonWin as a choice.

If it is not there, then go here:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/Extensions/Win32all

and download and install it.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 22:09:57 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:09:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to change Windows Environment Variable
In-Reply-To: <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOKELLCCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302207370.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, ??? wrote:

> Thanks quick reply. But not set to OS.
> I would like to set and using while login windows.
>
> >>>Import os
> >>>os.environ['Test'] = 'Hello '
> >>>print 'Test key in this?=', os.environ.has_key('Test')
> Test key in this?= 0
>
> But VB case OK!
>
> Please answer.

The next time you ask a question on a mailing list you might actually want to
say that you need the response CCed to you because you're not actually on the
list.

So for your benefit, here is/was my response:

> Good news:
>
> There is a GetEnvironmentVariable() function in the win32api module.
>
> Bad news:
>
> There is no SetEnvironmentVariable() function.
>
> Good news:
>
> The source code for win32api is available via CVS
>   (http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/cvs.html) so you can add the
>   function.
>
> Bad News:
>
> You'll need Visual Studio 6 to compile it.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From epoch7 at nocharmailter.net  Sat Aug 25 06:36:31 2001
From: epoch7 at nocharmailter.net (epoch7)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:36:31 -0400
Subject: Re and Me.
Message-ID: <toevhkp1hlem92@corp.supernews.com>

This is day 2 of my programming expereience, so please bear with my
newbie-ishness.
I'm trying to search for a string inside a file.  The string will be
different
but the characters marking its beginning and end are the same (url= and &).
I've spent all day and night just learning the ins and outs of python so
this is still a little beyond me.
re.split() would return the values between just one pattern correct? So
there must be some other way.
I could put an if statement in there that if it finds "&" it would output
that string to file and continue with the search
but that waaay beyond me :)

will





From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  2 12:32:42 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 18:32:42 +0200
Subject: Unicode File Conversion
References: <3B69158B.40EB156C@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j4puaea0d1.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tksee Lhsoh <tksee at yahoo.com> writes:

> I would like to convert unicode strings to a certain code
> such as "Thai, Korean, Greek,...".
> 
> Is there any converter or something useful for above purpose ?

Thai, Korean, and Greek are natural languages, not codes. You need to
pick an encoding first. If you want to use an encoding that can
represent all those languages, I recommend UTF-8. If you need any
other encoding, please let us know what it is.

Regards,
Martin



From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Sat Aug 25 15:02:03 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:02:03 -0400
Subject: Need Some WinDoze Help
In-Reply-To: <998676615.1242.98015.l6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B87BDEB.23616.8F525B5@localhost>

Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
> I know Unix much better than Win32, so I need a little help with
> the following please:
> 1) How do I go about finding out which shortcut key combinations
> are currently assigned to which programs/arguments? 

Gerson Kurz has already responded to this. However, I can't shake 
the impression I had that you were referring to shortcuts of the kind 
used on the Windows desktop.

The accepted way of doing this involves interacting with the 
Windows Shell as a COM object. For Python code (adapted from 
something Mike Fletcher adapted from something written by Mark 
Hammond) that might do what you want please write.

> 2) How do I "hook" a particular keystroke combination?  I want to
> be able to load a program and then toggle it from visible to
> invisible using the keystroke combo of choice.  

Nevertheless, I'm unaware of any method of doing this that would 
provide acceptably quick response other than what Mr Kurz 
suggested.

Bill



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 15:40:08 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:40:08 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <87n14pqslg.fsf@complete.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242338590.28845-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, John Goerzen wrote:
> The problem, though, is that it's not all that easy to do HTML in
> Python, especially for non-programmers.  One neat approach is Enhydra,
> a Java system, which uses id attributes in HTML tags and then lets the
> Java code modify those tags.  Completely separates presentation from
> implementation.

   Your dreams come true! Zope Page Templates, especially its :replace.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 17:03:05 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:03:05 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
In-Reply-To: <kb6gnt49hb0n6il52hb9r4ab59dkpbtgpn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140058390.1658-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Kirby Urner wrote:

>
>I notice the author of the Dive Into Python tutorial cautions
>that __init__ is not trully a class constructor, as by the time
>it's invoked, an instance already exists (hence the argument
>'self', hence the fact that classes don't need an __init__
>method).

It is constructor:

\begin{methoddesc}[object]{__init__}{self\optional{, args...}}
Called when the instance is created.  The arguments are those passed
to the class constructor expression.  If a base class has an
\method{__init__()} method the derived class's \method{__init__()} method
must
explicitly call it to ensure proper initialization of the base class
part of the instance, e.g., \samp{BaseClass.__init__(\var{self},
[\var{args}...])}.
\indexii{class}{constructor}

If I understood recent developments of Python, there will soon one more
constructor: __new__ to give raw instance (whatever that means).

I am not sure if "constructor" is a strictly defined term, though.
It's some routine which constructs object of a class.
__new__ do it. So continues __init__. They are for different
construction stages.

Anybody?

>I'm wondering if it's therefore considered faux pax to refer to
>the constructor of a Python user-defined class, meaning __init__,
>or if there's some tacit liberalizing of "constructor" (it's meaning)
>going on, such that this usage is acceptable.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 07:13:19 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:13:19 +0200
Subject: how to save xml (create with fuctions in xml.dom.minidom
References: <mailman.996659341.21784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k8o8n098u@enews2.newsguy.com>

"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.996659341.21784.python-list at python.org...
> belowing  is example from document,but how to save newdoc to a file,
> I use writexml,but failed.
>
> from xml.dom.minidom import Document
> newdoc = Document()
> newel = newdoc.createElement("some_tag")
> newdoc.appendChild(newel)

What do you mean by "failed"?  This sequence of operations
succeeds for me when followed by a call to newdoc.writexml(f)
where f is a file object open for writing.  You're probably
making some minor mistake elsewhere, e.g. right after this
incomplete code snippet that you quote.

Please suppy a complete copy-and-paste of a simple interactive
interpreter session that you think is failing.  Here is one
that is working just dandy:

D:\bookte>python
Python 2.1.1c1 (#19, Jul 13 2001, 00:25:06) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
Alternative ReadLine 1.4 -- Copyright 2001, Chris Gonnerman
>>> from xml.dom.minidom import Document
>>> newdoc=Document()
>>> newel=newdoc.createElement("some_tag")
>>> newdoc.appendChild(newel)
<DOM Element: some_tag at 8523836>
>>> thefile=open("bah.txt","w")
>>> newdoc.writexml(thefile)
>>> thefile.close()
>>>


D:\bookte>type bah.txt
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<some_tag/>
D:\bookte>


Alex





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug  8 02:25:20 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:25:20 +0200
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:01:24 +0200."
             <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> 
Message-ID: <m15UMmO-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know that Ruby slings around unnamed codeblocks, but I suspect
> that's just a syntax issue (not affecting the backend) wrt the
> Python equivalent, which is slinging around _named_ codeblocks
> (also known as function-objects, method-objects, and other
> callables).  There might be scoping issues, perhaps: in Python,
> any 'codeblock' [actually always a function, even when unnamed,
> as in a lambda-form] has its own scope,

That's only part of the truth. Python also knows about unnamed
codeblocks without scopes. They have type `code` and can be created by
`compile`.

>>> def foo () :
...   return 2*2
... 
>>> foo.func_code 
<code object foo at 0x811e338, file "<stdin>", line 1>
>>> foo.func_code.co_code 
'\x7f\x01\x00\x7f\x02\x00d\x01\x00d\x01\x00\x14Sd\x00\x00S'
>>> bar = compile ("2*2","<string>","eval")
>>> type(bar)
<type 'code'>
>>> bar.co_code
'\x7f\x00\x00d\x00\x00d\x00\x00\x14S'
>>> foo()
4
>>> eval(bar)
4

Nit-picking-ly y'rs, 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From plakal-nospam at nospam-cs.wisc.edu  Wed Aug  8 00:25:09 2001
From: plakal-nospam at nospam-cs.wisc.edu (Manoj Plakal)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:25:09 -0500
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
References: <mailman.997215734.1690.python-list@python.org> <slrn9n0mcs.c7t.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <9kqev6$jkf@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <mailman.997215734.1690.python-list at python.org>, Kemp
> Randy-W18971 wrote:
>> Great!  But how can I apply this to all files in a directory, where the
>> directory contains 20 files, without listing each file individually?
> 
>       for i in *; do
>  sed -e "s/Have a good day/jump off a cliff/g" $i > tmp
>  mv tmp $i
>       done

        Perl has some useful command-line options
            for doing in-place edits:

              perl -p -i -e "s/foo/bar/g;"  dir/*

           will replace "foo" with "bar" in all files inside directory
           "dir". But beware the power of the Dark Side,
           this stuff can degenerate rapidly if you are tempted
           to do more complicated stuff with it.

           Manoj




From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 14 17:34:35 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:34:35 +0200
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1528691.SCP9MucGe3@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Stephen <shriek at gmx.co.uk> schrub:

> I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and the
> numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages with
> attachments. I've found various solutions, some of which no longer
> seem to work, and was quite surprised how this seemingly banal task
> has caused so much trouble. However, in Microsoft Outlook, it's
> possible to embed image files into
> the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they
> display when the recipient views the message.  Just how does one
> compose a message like that with Python may I ask?

As far as I know, those image _are_ attached. But the body of the 
message is html, and contains an img-tag that references the attachment.

May be you can get a raw look on the source of such a message to 
further introspect this.


markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Aug  7 13:00:44 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:00:44 +0200
Subject: Zope python paths
References: <0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm@jessikat.demon.co.uk><9kotiu$265g$1@norfair.nerim.net> <Al0xeVAVVBc7EwHr@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kp6hi$2b34$1@norfair.nerim.net>

...
> Seems to me like an official 'install' should take care
> to eliminate initial paths which aren't below sw_home\bin.

Or provide easy alternate setups (one more option for Z2.py) or config file
for Z2.py.





From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 01:17:07 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:17:07 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEENDLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Boddie]
> I can understand Arthur's confusion, though. If you look at the
> original posting concerning the patch, it does seem as if VPython was
> a strong motivation:

You think this is the first time the subject has been raised?  Relentless
confusion isn't so easy to explain.

> ...
> VPython probably is irrelevant to PEP 238 at this stage, apart from
> being a project which will benefit directly from the changes brought
> about by being pulled into the mainstream. However, it's unfair to
> pretend that Arthur has imagined influences that VPython (and Alice)
> may have had:

I acknowledged no more than two days ago that Alice was the first project to
"make a big stink" out of division semantics.  That was never in dispute,
but it's old news now and no longer of interest to the future of PEP 238.

Suppose a florist points out that bad things happen to good people, and
that's bad for business.  It doesn't matter that a florist pointed it out,
nor does it matter that the florist may be (even foolishly) overlooking that
for every romance cut short by unfair tragedy, other tragedies increase
flower sales.  If you're in the florist business, *maybe* that's interesting
to argue, and argue, and argue about, but if you're in the business of just
trying to make life a little better, it's simply irrelevant who pointed it
out, or even whether their analysis of their particular situation was 100%
wrong.

I've neither attacked nor defended anything the VPython people have had to
say, simply because it doesn't matter to *Python*.  Their suggestion was a
good one regardless (and wasn't original even with Alice, BTW -- but Alice
was, IIRC, the first to "make a big stink" about it).  WRT their own
project, I'm inclined to believe they understand the details of their own
work better than anyone on c.l.py -- but that's the first and last time I'll
even mention that.

> ...
> With revisions 1.10 and 1.12 of the PEP 238 document also as evidence,
> I can understand some people wanting to know more about the
> *motivations* for the impending changes.

That's what the Rationale section of the PEP is for; they should read it.

> Indeed, the motivations are more interesting to some people than the
> actual changes themselves, because they are part of a decision-making
> process which is interesting and instructive to observe.

Even if you're an historian (and so have an *excuse* to demand that the
world sate your idle curiosity <wink>), you'll learn much more about that by
taking an active role in a current discussion than by excavating Usenet for
the bones of old ones.  Even better, write a PEP and get a first-hand view
of what life is like from the other side.

but-first-invest-in-a-high-capacity-flame-resistant-mail-reader-ly y'rs
    - tim




From writeson at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 01:13:25 2001
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:13:25 GMT
Subject: Necessary Python stuff on Sun
Message-ID: <VR_i7.2756$aC1.287578@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi,

For various reasons I put the Python source tar file in /usr/local/bin on my
Sun Solaris 2.6 machine in order to compile it and get it running. Now I've
got it running and I'd like to move the necessary libaries and runtime stuff
to another machine. First off can anyone tell me if putting the source tar
file in /usr/local/bin was a bad idea and if so why? If it was a bad idea,
what should I have done to compile and install it? Now that it's done, how
can I extract just the stuff I need to run Python on another Solaris 2.6
machine?

Thanks in advance,
Doug




From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Thu Aug 23 18:41:52 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:41:52 +1000
Subject: beginer need Python users advice 
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010823224152Z-55122@emi1.EMI>

Hi all,

I'm starting to program Python Language and I need to send mail 
through Python , which method is the best : STMP or create Mapi 
session.
I'm thinking to use STMP but It's need a MineWriter , so is this slow 
method ; Does it carry any overhead at all ??

Thanks in advance,
Kim,




From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 01:43:02 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:43:02 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:19:36 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
[...]
>For CGI, I need file locking. The alternatives are (as I understand
>them):
>
>1. Have a server running, which controls access to the files, thus
>ensuring that only one process can write to the files at a time.
>
>2. Something dealing with sockets, where the CGI script tries to see if
>a certain socket is listening to determine whether it has permission to
>write to the file...details are hazy and I'm not going to look this one
>up again right now.
>
>3. Check whether a certain file exists to determine whether or not the
>process can have permission to write to the files.
>
>The problems with # 1 and 2, is that it requires a process running on
>the web server all the time, and I am not allowed to do that on the
>shared, community server where I host my website. (I don't think most
>people who do not run a dedicated server are allowed to have processes
>running in the background on the server.)
>
>The problem with #3, is I've heard that is unreliable as well. Problems
>with whether the file will be deleted or written if the program crashes.
>Then, if the file is still there/missing, subsequent calls to the CGI
>script will think that they have permission to write when they don't.
>Or, the process may think that it can't have permission, when it can.
>Etc...
>
>Since in a CGI situation, you may have many processes running in
>parallel, then "my program" doesn't control access to the files, since
>there may be many instances of the program. Actually, this is what I
>thought to do originally, but After going over # 1, 2, 3 above, I
>thought...gee, this isn't going to work. Then, I found a really nifty
>example in Mark Lutz Programming Python, Chapter 14 where he does a
>shelf database implementation for his Book Errata website. He discusses
>file locking in there, but only for a Unix-type platform.
>
>I really don't see any way around file locking for the type of
>application I'm trying to write. However, I guess after seeing all the
>trouble with the msvcrt module, and how it doesn't even seem to allow
>shared locking access to a file, that I will go ahead and use the
>win32all extensions. I'm supposing that will allow better control?
>

I'll assume that when you say 'file locking', you mean the file as
a whole, rather than a region of the file, as the parameters for _locking
specify (I think an example of yours had parameters for the whole
file length).

Have you considered using os.rename() to implement your method #3 above?
Barring a system crash, renaming should be atomic, and even if there
is a crash after renaming, you should be able to detect orphan files
if you put appropriate info in the new name.

I'll stick my neck out here with a pretty untested sketch:

Here is a sample interactive sequence (there's a file 'xxx'
in the current directory) ...

 Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from LockedFile import LockedFile
 >>> flock=LockedFile('xxx','r')
 >>> if flock.open():
 ...     flock.f.read()
 ... else:
 ...     print flock.lasterror
 ...
 'This is xxx with no extension\n'
 >>> glock=LockedFile('xxx','r')
 >>> if glock.open():
 ...     glock.f.read()
 ... else:
 ...     print glock.lasterror
 ...
 [Errno 13] Permission denied trying to lock "xxx.998881229"
 >>> del flock
 >>> if glock.open():
 ...     glock.f.read()
 ... else:
 ...     print glock.lasterror
 ...
 'This is xxx with no extension\n'
 >>> glock.lockedName
 'xxx.998881516'
 >>> glock.f
 <open file 'xxx.998881516', mode 'r' at 007F74F0>
 >>> del glock

That Errno 13 was because I was slow, and the locked
file looked orphaned after 10 seconds, but it was still
open via the other open.

Note that calling glock.open() doesn't do anything if
it's already open, except clear the last error. If it
was locked but not orphaned yet, it should return None,
but with no lasterror (needs testing). Thus you might
be able to do glock.open() and sleep a little to let others free
the file. 10 seconds is a long time though, but be careful
with 1-second resolution, since a difference of 1 can mean
a microsecond or a microsecond short of two seconds, depending
on when the ticks happened in reality.

There's a mutex module that might be of interest too.
And you might want to change this thing to use all lowlevel
io instead of the builtin open and file object. You might
be able to get shared reading without error.

I don't know how/whether this incomplete workaround thing
fits your use, but HTH get you closer.

________________________________________________________

# LockedFile.py -- a class for locking by renaming, then opening a file
# Copyright (C) 2001 Bengt Richter. All rights reserved.
# Released under Python license, with NO WARRANTIES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED.
# Version 0.01 alpha -- just a sketch, rework to suit ;-)
#
MAXLOCKSECONDS = 10 # max time to hold lock, in seconds (resolution 1 sec)

import os, glob, time
class LockedFile:
    def __init__(self, fullPath, fmode='r',maxhold=MAXLOCKSECONDS):
        self.lasterror = None
        self.f = None
        self.fdir = fullPath.split(os.sep)
        self.fname = self.fdir[-1]
        self.fdir = os.sep.join(self.fdir[:-1])
        if self.fdir:
            self.fdir += os.sep
        self.fmode = fmode
        self.open()

    def open(self):
        self.lasterror = None
        if self.f: return self.f

        self.lockedName = self.fname+'.'+str(long(time.time()))
        fpath = self.fdir+self.fname    #pathname for unlocked file
        
        if not os.access(fpath,os.F_OK):    # just checks existence

            # check for orphan over MAXLOCKSECONDS seconds old
            oldDir = os.getcwd()
            if self.fdir: os.chdir(self.fdir) # want names w/o paths
            orphan = glob.glob(self.fname+'.*')
            os.chdir(oldDir)

            if len(orphan) != 1:
                self.lasterror = '%d items matched "%s.*' % (len(orphan),self.fname)
                return None
            orphan = orphan[0]
            torph = orphan.split('.')[-1]
            if not torph.isdigit():
                self.lasterror = '"%s" has bad lock suffix' % orphan
                return None
            torph = long(torph)
            tnow = long(time.time())
            if tnow-torph > MAXLOCKSECONDS:
                # assume ok to take over orphan locked file
                fpath = self.fdir + orphan
            else:
                return  None #no, error, just locked, so f remains None
        
        # now try to lock the file at fpath
        try:
            os.rename(fpath, self.lockedName)
            self.f = open(self.fdir+self.lockedName, self.fmode)
            return self.f
        except OSError,e:
            self.lasterror = str(e) +' trying to lock "%s"' % fpath
        
    def close(self):
        if self.f:
            self.f.close()   # close the locked file
            self.f = None
            # try to rename it to its unlocked name
            try:
                os.rename(self.fdir+self.lockedName, self.fname)
            except OSError,e:
                self.lasterror = e.errmsg
            

    def __del__(self):
        self.close()
________________________________________________________



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 11:42:58 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:42:58 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <20010824105701.H930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241929120.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>

So we have very good discussion here! I want to stress that SkunkWeb and
Zope seem to be oriented towards different classes of users. Let us
clarify the differences.

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > > Like Webware, Zope uses a threaded model instead of a forking model
> >
> >    Forking Zope would be an issue. It is too heavy.
>
> On an SMP machine though, this kills performance because of the Python
> Global Interpreter Lock.  It will only use a minute portion of the
> other CPUs.  So if you're going to run Zope, basically don't bother
> with SMP, you'd be wasting your money.

   I know it. This should be fixed (and will be fixed sooner or later) on
the Python level.

> Or how about pull the source of templates from archive
> files instead of ZODB (or the filesystem in the case of SkunkWeb)?

   Easy. I can pull templates from filesystem, from SQL, whatever.

> > > To call arbitrary code from Zope templates, you have to create Python
> > > Method objects, which let's be honest, is a pain.
> >
> >    Where is the pain?
>
> I just want to import and call a function, not have to go through the
> admin interface to say what functions people can call.  I want to
> reduce the amount of work I (or others for that matter) have to do to
> get the site up, running and fast.

   Hence you think about small secure intranet sites.

> > > STML has an import tag
> >
> >    Insecure?
>
> You don't trust the people who build the website for your company?

   Certainly NO! Let us see.

1. Some people do malicious things intentionally.

2. People often do mistakes. Do not allow people to delete important
information by simple mistake.

3. There are outside crackers who will exploit every possible hole.

4. And there are different types of sites and users. Think about Geocite.
Do you trust its users? :)

> > > I may be wrong on this one, but I don't think that Zope allows you to
> > > cache the output of a template.
> >
> >    There are cacheing Products.
>
> But caching in a high-performance web serving environment is
> absolutely central or you burn CPU (the app server's or the database
> server's) like it's going out of style.

   Agree. And Zope allows you to cache a simple object, a complex tree of
objects, SQL query or even entire page.

> > > Modularity. It's pretty difficult to pull the cool bits out of Zope
> >
> >    It is pretty easy to use ZServer, or ZODB, or DTML, or ZPublisher
> > outside of Zope.
>
> ZPublisher and DTML yes, but the others didn't used to be

   ZODB is very nice Object DB. Catalog is useable, too.

> > Acquisition allows you to do very powerful object
> > publishing.
>
> A feature which works well for experienced programmers, but not all
> people who build web pages (notably designers and HTML jockeys) are,
> and you always have to keep them in mind.  It can cause a bit of head
> explosion for a while until they get used to it.  One could argue
> whether the power is worth the complexity.

   Definitely yes. Just don't say "Zope is for everyone. Every simple idiot
can build portal in a minute".

> > ZClasses are for simple programming.
>
> Wouldn't it seem reasonable for simple programming not to require a
> class?

   No. Without a class it is not programming at all. But you certainly can
build simple site with DTML objects.

> > ZCatalog - integrated
> > search system.
>
> Assuming you store everything in the ZODB that is...

   ZCatalog pulls information from python, so you can index your SQL tables
or whatever.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug  9 02:36:32 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:36:32 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: pyFlash
In-Reply-To: <Qshc7.32632$5c.2387629@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091031360.9369-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, MNX tech services wrote:

>Would it make sense to use static Flash 5.0 pages as a browser-based GUI
>against a Python backend?  Wouldn't it have the advantage of displaying
>absolutely uniformly across all platforms, along with providing a vast array
>of widgets?

If you code for the WWW, then it's probably not good idea. Personally I
avoid flashed sites, because they are no better than Java applets or
downloadable EXEs or ActiveX-things. I believe Web to be about hypertext
and hate to see additions like Flash used for _content-delivery_.
(Interactive games and splash-screens are OK).

But if you build some internal thing, it is probably good idea,
depending on how many clients have Flash installed.

>KSmith

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Thursday, August 09, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "NEWS! Stolen painting found by tree" _/




From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 00:57:33 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 21:57:33 -0700
Subject: redirect python output + extension type with own print method = FAILS
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108102057.28ba9f7a@posting.google.com>

hello,

BOTTOMLINE: Why when python's output is redirected by overriding
sys.stdout, would a user-defined type's print method not be
accessible?

*** PART 1 ***
i have successfully redirected python output using a technique which i
think is a fairly common one.  It involves overriding sys.stdout and
sys.stderr with objects which have a "write" method.  This begins with
a function that's prototyped as:

   static PyObject* StdOut_Write(PyObject* Self, PyObject* Args) 

which is followed up by:

   static PyMethodDef StdOut_Methods[] =
   {
      { "write", StdOut_Write, 1 },
      { NULL,    NULL,           }  
   };

and:

   PyObject* py_out = Py_InitModule("stdout", StdOut_Methods);
   PySys_SetObject("stdout", py_out);

and all this works perfectly fine.  When run, python succesfully
redirects to the correct place.  Great.  (FWIW, redirection goes to a
window in an MFC app.)

*** PART 2 ***
Forget that we have done the above and create an extension type that
has its own print method.  To make it easy, take the xxmodule.c that
comes with the standard distribution source and just add a print
method.  For instance:

   static int
   XXo_print(XxoObject *self, FILE *fp, int flags)
   {  
      char mystring[] = "Spam is good!";
      fprintf(fp, "%s", mystring);
      return 0;
   }

and of course the print slot needs to be filled in in type object
structure:

   static PyTypeObject Xxo_Type = {
   ...
      (printfunc)XXo_print,    /*tp_print*/
   ...

When this xx.pyd module is loaded into a python session run in console
mode in w2k, everything works as expected.  This is what i see:

   C:\test>python
   ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
   Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
   Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
   >>> from xx import *
   >>> foo = new()
   >>> print foo
   Spam is good!
   >>>

*** HERE IS THE PROBLEM! ***
When i combine both steps above, the print method of the XXo object
fails.  IOW, when i redirect python's output by overriding sys.stdout
with an object that has a "write" method AND then try to print a
user-defined type with its own print method, instead of the print
method being accessed correctly, i just get its memory address back. 
This is what i see:

   ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
   Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
   Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
   THIS OUTPUT IS BEING REDIRECTED
   >>>from xx import *
   >>>foo = new()
   >>>print foo
   <Xxo object at 008592A8>
   
   >>>


I have looked at python's source code and noticed that the function
PyObject_Print in file object.c will print an object's memory address
if both the print method and repr method are NULL.  I presume this is
the particular code that python to cause the <Xxo object at 008592A8>
msg above:

      ...
      else if (op->ob_type->tp_print == NULL) {
         if (op->ob_type->tp_repr == NULL) {
            fprintf(fp, "<%s object at %p>",
               op->ob_type->tp_name, op);
         }
      ...

So my question is, why when python's output is redirected by
overriding sys.stdout, would a user-defined type's print method not be
accessible?  I am using MSVC++ 6.0 on w2k.

any help is greatly appreciated,

doug
doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com


From JamesL at Lugoj.Com  Fri Aug  3 20:17:29 2001
From: JamesL at Lugoj.Com (James Logajan)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:17:29 -0700
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org> <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com> <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net> <Xns90F3127C4569Crcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B6B3F19.BDB95417@Lugoj.Com>

Robert Amesz wrote:
> There actually is an older spelling of the word, as we can see in the
> title "Paradigm Lost", by Milton, the epic poem about mankind's
> struggle to come to terms with Good, Evil, and The Loss Of A Small
> Amount Of Change.

I'm sorry, but the title was "Pair 'o Dice Lost" and was about how to deal
with a game of Monopoly (tm) when you land on Boardwalk with a hotel owned
by your stupid brother and get so angry you throw the dice behind the sofa.

(No I never had any therapy for that incident, why do you ask!?)

P.S. Ob Python: anyone implemented a non computer game in Python that had
traditionally used dice?


From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 17 10:15:26 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:15:26 +1000
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7B239E.C08F8DCD@student.gu.edu.au> <7xae10rc5h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D26FE.87F7D3CA@student.gu.edu.au>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Joal Heagney <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> writes:
> > Out of curiosity, is there a reason (e.g. curiosity on your part?)
> > you're not using:
> >
> > N = 100
> > sum = N*(N+1)/2
> >
> > which returns the sum of the first 100 integers much more quickly?
> 
> It was just a simple example to illustrate my question about how the
> range function worked.  Of course I wouldn't code it that way in real
> life.

I kinda thought that was what it was. *evil grin* And I should HOPE not!
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 15 06:13:46 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:13:46 GMT
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com> <9l298d$2kt6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <iipantok6k459k7smpi8lnsv476tmujcnl@4ax.com> <slrn.pl.9nirk0.56f.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nkiqq.tfi.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

14 Aug 2001 18:31:28 GMT, Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> pisze:

>> Python lists are tail-preallocated vectors. Therefore, adding to the
>> end of a list occurs in (close to*) amortized constant time.
>> 
>> (*) note that while this statement isn't strictly true, it's as
>> true as it needs to be. :)
> 
> It used to be not strictly true, but it's true in Python 2.1a.

Sorry, I meant version 2.2a1. Ditto when in another thread I
was talking about a plethora of new types coming from type/class
unification.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From cmiller at math.cudenver.edu  Wed Aug 22 19:10:28 2001
From: cmiller at math.cudenver.edu (cary miller)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:10:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <15236.13613.12810.578878@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221709240.4411-100000@math.cudenver.edu>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>     cary> is simplest if you only want to know about the os module.  To get
>     cary> the location of any module do this:
>
>     cary> mod = os
>     cary> os.path.dirname(eval(mod.__name__).__file__)
>
> Why the eval?  Why not simply
>
>     os.path.dirname(mod.__file__)
>

You are right, the eval is totally useless.  Nevermind.




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 05:41:44 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:41:44 +0200
Subject: Python under Windows:  free cl.exe?
References: <13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ltacp01m1h@enews4.newsguy.com>

"J.Jacob" <joost_jacob at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3 at posting.google.com...
    ...
> The cygwin effort of using a free GNU C++ compiler for building Python
looks
> great but there are just too much systems/packages/modules (Python itself
too)

Python 2.1.1 is one of the packages available for Cygwin.

> based on the microsoft compiler with makefiles for nmake and nothing for
the
> Gnu compilers.  Too bad i think !  I would much rather use the Gnu
compiler,
> but...i do not want to have to rewrite tons of makefiles and
installscripts
> all the time and i can not beat microsoft so i have to join.

You don't have to "beat Microsoft" on your own, because lots of
other people are working towards the same goal, and Cygwin gives
you a very good environment for such purposes.

The amount of effort typically required to build a Unix package
(as obtained from a source .tgz as you typically download from
the net) is:
    -- unpack it with tar zxf whatever.tgz
    -- cd whatever
    -- ./setup
    -- ./make
that's it.  I.e., exactly the same amount of effort typically
required on a good Linux box.  I've installed Cygnus and XFree86
from the pre-built packages (including Python 2.1.1), but then
adding other packages from sources was exactly such a snap.  For
example, cygwin comes with gcc 2.9x for some value of x -- I then
downloaded gcc 3.0 (wanted to experiment with the latest level
of support for native-code ahead-of-time compilation of Java,
C++ compliance level with the standard, code-generation quality,
etc), and it WAS just such a snap to build it on Cygwin as on
the Linux box.  WindowMaker and its supporting library, ditto
(XFree is really NOT very nice with twm as the windowmanager;-).

If you *WANT* to use Microsoft's compilers, that's one thing --
they do have their pluses, such as the excellent ATL framework
for COM work, for example.  But if, as you say, you "would much
rather use the Gnu compiler", this is perfectly feasible today.

Indeed, the tradeoff today between:
    A) a MS Windows OS with cygwin on top, or
    B) a Mandrake Linux install with win4lin on top,
is basically: A gives you an easier time with running peculiar
Windows programs (you probably do need A for certain games,
and in fact the OS had better be Win98 -- ME, 2000 and XP fail
to run quite a few games that play too-dirty tricks, too), but
you DO have a Microsoft OS below it all, so that:
    -- your machine's overall performance is inferior with [A]
        while [B] does a rather better job at it,
    -- but, [A] presumably support any sort of funky hardware
        you may throw at it, while [B] can't really support
        certain HW pieces whose manufacturers refuse to release
        correct and detailed specs (e.g., Conexant HCF winmodems:
        apparently no way to run them on Linux -- not really a
        technical issue, Lucent supports *its* winmodems well
        on Linux it seems, more, I guess, an issue of how much
        a HW manufacturer wants to stay on good terms with MS by
        boycotting Linux vs how much it wants Linux business:-).
[B] gives you a wider variety of applications developed for Unix
and Unix-like boxes (most have been ported to Windows/Cygwin,
most others are easy to setup and make, but not all), [A] gives
you a wider variety of applications developed for Windows of
some sort (but with limits -- NET.SDK not supported on Win98,
some games don't run on Win2000, etc -- NOT due to Cygwin:-).

[B] is far more solid and stable, particularly if the MS OS
you have under [A] is Win95/98/ME (I have no experience of XP
yet; NT4 and 2000 are less flaky, but still weird out somewhat
too often for my liking).

So, anyway, both configurations are quite viable and useful
in different circumstances.  And in each case you get to choose
whether to use Microsoft compilers (yes they do run fine under
win4lin) or GNU ones (there's mingw32 as well as cygwin, but I
have little recent experience with the former).  Your choice!

> slow and unclear.  Anybody knows the location ?  There should be a link on
the
> Python download page too, near the source distibution maybe.  I did try to
use
> the microsoft support at their website but uhm....well see for yourself :)

I see the location question has been answered, but I'd like to
go on record against www.python.org giving any suggestions to
people about downloading a 120MB blob that's beta-level and not
"fully supported" (whatever that may mean for a beta) except under
Win/2000.  Rather, one appropriate link, IMHO, *WOULD* be to the
Cygwin pages, since the full Cygwin download DOES include the
latest released Python (2.1.1).


Alex





From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug  1 12:21:37 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:21:37 GMT
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <h3bgmtc14nevvifpaskf9btieso9vlhdmk@4ax.com>

How about changing the DNS records to temporarily point to one of the
mirrors when someone requests python.org ???

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:22:03 -0400, Guido van Rossum <guido at zope.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.996524697.8188.python-list at python.org>:

:We have a broken hard drive on the machine that is www.python.org.
:CNRI claims there is no spare drive.  It may be a while before we
:resolve this.  In the mean time, here's a mirror:
:
:http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/Python/www.python.org/
:
:Here's a list of mirrors:
:
:http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/Python/www.python.org/Mirrors.html
:
:--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net  Tue Aug 14 18:04:56 2001
From: ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net (S11001001)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:04:56 -0500
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
Message-ID: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net>

I am only a newbie to python, a perl refugee, in fact. I need a DOWNLOADABLE,
as in one tarball or something, tutorial employing DESCRIPTION. I cannot leave
the internet connection running as I page through the tutorial at python.org,
so I can't go that route. Once I get kernel 2.2.5, I will be able to do
Internet in Linux, so it will probably be alright. But I prefer to learn
offline.

--
Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an
intellectual property sense to everything it touches.
     Steve Ballmer





From jason at tishler.net  Thu Aug  2 15:06:47 2001
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:06:47 -0400
Subject: C/Cygwin/Python
In-Reply-To: <3B69A3DD.E36AEB97@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>
Message-ID: <20010802150647.E393@dothill.com>

Alexander,

On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:02:53PM -0700, Alexander V. Voinov wrote:
> Jason Tishler wrote:
> > > and you do not have to
> > > recompile the whole distribution. Is this right (meaning that you do
> > > compile the whole distribution)?
> >
> > Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "recompile the whole
> > distribution."
> 
> Sorry, I meant the whole source distribution of Python being recompiled
> within the cygwin environment (by typing configure; make; make install
> as usual)

That is what I thought but I wasn't sure.  Yes, that is correct too.

Jason

-- 
Jason Tishler
Director, Software Engineering       Phone: 732.264.8770 x235
Dot Hill Systems Corp.               Fax:   732.264.8798
82 Bethany Road, Suite 7             Email: jason at tishler.net
Hazlet, NJ 07730 USA                 WWW:   http://www.dothill.com



From rob at jam.rr.com  Tue Aug 21 11:38:47 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:38:47 GMT
Subject: Python time machine and comp.lang.python logos
Message-ID: <3B82803F.4FFD7AB8@jam.rr.com>

I don't promise any particular level of quality, but we have designed
several Python-related graphics for Useless Python. A few of them barely
make any sense at all, or just poke a little fun at Python people. But
I've never seen a comp.lang.python logo image before.

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/uselesslogos.html

Uselessly,
Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Thu Aug 16 07:43:44 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 11:43:44 GMT
Subject: embedded AND extended C code
References: <3b7b4654$0$330$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90FF4EB46D998gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194>

Neil Macneale wrote: 

 
> I am calling Py_InitModule to load modules before, but I have only used
> it in functions that at were meant to extend python only. IE, in
> initmodule() functions. Now I am calling it from a C function of a
> program which embeds python. Basically, I am both embedding the
> interpreter in a C program, and I am extending the interpreter with C
> code. 

[snip]

> void init_treemaker(char * progName){
>     Py_SetProgramName(progName);
>     Py_Initialize();

[snip]

Know that horrid grinding noise when you try to start a car that's already 
running? That's what you've got here.

You can embed and extend from the same C program, but you have to embed 
first and extend later. See mcmillan-inc.com/embed2.html for a simplistic 
example.

- Gordon




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:26:06 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:26:06 +0200
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
References: <87k80fg083.fsf@lucifer.home.spb> <fRfc7.22129$5j7.1963688@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9ktkvc01uej@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:fRfc7.22129$5j7.1963688 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> "Eugene Morozov" <jmv at yandex.ru> wrote in message
> news:87k80fg083.fsf at lucifer.home.spb...
> > Hello!
> > I'm playing with Python, COM and Word and I'm very impressed. It's a
> > shame that no such thing exist under Unix. But I'm actually interested
> > if it is possible to run Python scripts directly from Word, binding
> > them to the toolbar buttons, for example?
> > Eugene
> >
> You could do that indirectly, by implementing COM objects in Python and
then
> creating and manipulating them from VBA. You're having so much fun with
this

A simpler way to 'do that indirectly': from VBA code, instantiate
a "Microsoft Script Control" (downloadable from MS's site if you
don't have it installed), set the Language property to "Python",
and have at it:-).

> stuff you should really get a copy of Hammond and Robinson's "Python
> Programming on Win32" if you haven't already. I assume you haven't yet
> because it explains how to do all this neat stuff in a lot of detail.

Book recommendation seconded, although I don't think they
cover the ScriptControl specifically (a shame, since it's
the easiest way to integrate Python as an application's
scripting language on Win32).


Alex





From inigoserna at terra.es  Wed Aug 22 11:53:17 2001
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 17:53:17 +0200
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.10 -- Scientific Computing with Python
In-Reply-To: <b6%f7.145881$g_3.22791856@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
References: <b6%f7.145881$g_3.22791856@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <998495598.19097.25.camel@lethe.infernus.org>

Hello,

I have problems with SciPy trying to run the example in SciPy FAQ.

Simplifying, this is where the problem comes from:

	Python 2.1.1 (#5, Aug  5 2001, 02:09:22) 
	[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
	Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
	>>> 6.2 - 3.1
	3.1000000000000001
	>>> import gui_thread
	>>> <wxPython imported>
	>>> 
	>>> 6.2 - 3.1
	3.0

It seems the problem is originated in gui_thread/main.py when executing main.start()
perhaps problems with threads.
My machine is a x86 with 2 PIII CPUs running Linux 2.4.9.
I have compiled manually python 2.1.1, SciPy, wxgtk (with threads support on) and
wxpython.

Someone else with the same problems?

Thanks in advance,

I?igo Serna





From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug  6 05:03:07 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:03:07 +0200
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9k9ekl$ev$1@norfair.nerim.net> <3B6B3F0B.582EA80D@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9klm65$b74$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Paul,

Thanks for your valuable pointers. But this emphasizes what I said in my
post:
There are too many various extensions/products the newbie should search for
and install to have more comfortable development/production environment.
Those essential extensions should be included as Zope standard features.
That's the reason why I won't go to Zope 2.4.x right now (to many risks with
all essential products I'm actually using).
Except if essential products are available for Zope 2.4.x only.
Beside this we got things like siteaccess (only for those who do virtual
hosting) or ZGadflyDA (who will use Gadfly with Zope except for learning
ZSQL methods - can do this with mySQL too) in the standard Zope package that
are not of interest to me as to most Zope users I guess.
In addition, some products change some features of their API even for minor
releases that make the upgrades messy and dangerous (see
http://www.squishdot.org/Documentation/upgrades.html)
As I said in my previous post, I needed some days to learn Python, I can use
most(s) subtile and strange features of Zope after 4 intensitive months. And
I don't want to re-learn at new releases.
Now I need to learn how to customize the CMF (http://cmf.zope.org) and I
don't see how I can manage it without hacking the code (where is there a
REAL doc for the CMF ?)

--Gillou

"Paul Winkler" <slinkp23 at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
3B6B3F0B.582EA80D at yahoo.com...
> Gillou wrote:
>
> > I still can't understand how to debug DTML.
>
> I found this product to be very helpful:
> http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/ZDebug
> It makes the traceback page a lot more informative.
>
> > What's missing:
> >
> > - The ability to mix easily Python and DTML in one object like PHP or
JSP
> > (actually you must make a python method when 2 lines or more are
required).
>
> Maybe you'll like this:
> http://www.zope.org/Members/Kaivo/EvalTag
> It claims to do exactly what you want. I haven't tried it. I'm trying to
migrate
> to ZPT and completely stop using DTML.
>
> I wish I knew solutions to the rest of your problems - I have many of the
same
> complaints.
>
> -
> ...................    paul winkler   ....................
> custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
>        A member of ARMS:   http://www.reacharms.com
>             home page:  http://www.slinkp.com




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 10:19:08 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:19:08 -0500
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org>
        <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <15244.63964.173053.634484@beluga.mojam.com>

    John> Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so modules
    John> are private resources once they're loaded. 

I might be reading this wrong, and I'm definitely taking you out of context,
but the whole idea of .so files is that their text sections *are* shared
among processes.  Their data sections will be process-private.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Thu Aug  9 03:19:49 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 09:19:49 +0200
Subject: Dynamic graphs under gtk or other widget set
References: <9kr12v$hs3$1@s1.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <yv2elql7l9m.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Tom Huckstep <tom1 at redant.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> I would like to write a mathematical function graph
> plotting program in python with the capability to draw
> `dynamic' graphs.  I'll explain what I mean by dynamic:

Sounds like it should work similar to an Oszilloscope. Have a look at

  http://wsd.iitb.fhg.de/~kir/nephome/

Alas, its written in Tcl.

  Harald Kirsch
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From diggory at fatbabies.com  Fri Aug 10 11:33:02 2001
From: diggory at fatbabies.com (Diggory Venn)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:33:02 GMT
Subject: HappyDoc alternatives?
Message-ID: <O8Tc7.7183$rb.315866@news5.aus1.giganews.com>

Is happydoc the only python documentation generator?  I ask because I
think doxygen produces much better looking documentation, but that's
just aesthetics.  Doxygen also finds out where a function is referenced.
I think there's something called pydoc, but it looks like it produces
about the same thing as happydoc.

--
diggory



From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Fri Aug 24 09:18:04 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:18:04 +0200
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com> <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <k6jcot06nqrldcqe1nkmic9bh42amncfnf@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:32:46 +0200, Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com>
wrote:

>Paul Moore wrote:
>>>   import win32com.client
>>>
>>>   class wexEvents:
>>>       def OnTick(self, Remaining, WakeUp):
>>>           print "Tick...", Remaining
>>>           return -1
>>>
>>>   wex = win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("WshToolbox.WScriptEx",
>>>                                            wexEvents)
>>>
>>>   wex.Sleep(10000,1000)
>>>
>>>But this doesn't seem to work! 
>
>It should :(  The Excel etc demos all work fine with very similar 
>constructs.  You could try:
>
>    return 1==1
>
>which due to an implementation detail will ensure that a VT_BOOL is 
>returned - however, this should not be necessary.
>
>So no real clue I am afraid :(  If I could repro the error, I could 
>probably determine the problem.

Right, I've got it sorted. There are two separate issues:

1. The component was explicitly checking for VT_BOOL, rather than converting
whatever is sent. This is a component bug (and will be fixed). Using 1==1 to
force a VT_BYREF fixes this problem, but it would be nice to have a way (a
PyVARIANT type?) of explicitly passing a specific variant type.

2. The event handler needs *two* values returning. The first is sent to the
"result" of the IDispatch->Invoke() call, and the remaining are used to set
the ByRef parameters from the call. [This is in the source file
PyWin32\com\win32com\src\PyGatewayBase.cpp in function invoke_finish]

The problem with issue (2) is that it doesn't seem consistent - Mark comments
that the Excel tests work. I assume that this is because Excel's Connection
Point implementation passes a NULL for the pVarResult parameter of the
Invoke() method. However, ATL-generated COM objects pass a non-NULL
pVarResult, and use its scode (without checking for a type of VT_ERROR!) for
the HRESULT from the Fire_<event> call. [You can see this by generating a
trivial ATL project with an object implementing connection point support].

The big issue is that *no-one* is going to document this difference in
behaviour, so users are left with guesswork as the only way to know whether to
return an extra initial result.

I believe that win32com should ideally handle event methods specially, and
*ignore* the pVarResult for such methods (after all, events will always be
"logically" void procedures). The problem is that I can't see how it might be
possible, this far down in the infrastructure, to determine whether
PyGatewayBase::Invoke is being called from an event handler or a normal method
:-(

In the meantime, at least I have a workaround...

Phew!

Paul.



From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 22 11:07:54 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:07:54 GMT
Subject: Tkinter on IRIX and Linux
References: <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E@zikai.org> <mailman.998383831.16689.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b83bc83.37973983@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:52:53 +0200, Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de>
wrote:

:On Tuesday 21 August 2001 06:39, you wrote:
:> I compiled Python 2.0 on IRIX and Linux. Neither of them supports
:> tkinter. When I import Tkinter:
:>
:> [error message removed...]
:>
:
:What you are seeing is that when you compiled Python 2.0 you didn't have Tk 
:installed in a place where it is found (that means in --include-dir) by the 
:module when that one was compiled by make.
:
:What you have to do is:
:
:1. check whether you have Tk installed (by trying to run 'wish' as 
:superuser).

Hmmm, preferably not.

On many systems - I haven't been watching SGI for a few years now but
I imagine they probably do it too - the PATH for superuser is
different, and may not include the path to the Tk bits.  Use the
superuser account to /install/ software only, do the build as an
ordinary user.

The rough steps to worry about (others have posted most of the rest of
the recipe):

1. Make sure Tcl/TK are installed and working by running "wish" as an
ordinary user.
2. If not, go find the SGI inst packages for these and install, or
build from source.
3. Run the Python configure script *as the same user*.
4. If not attempting Python 2.1 or later, go edit the modules/setup
file and uncomment the tkinter-specific parts.
5. Build Python
6. Do the "make install" as superuser.




Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From eyal at hyperroll.com  Sun Aug 26 15:06:04 2001
From: eyal at hyperroll.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:06:04 +0300
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998624031.16670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b894876@news.bezeqint.net>

Tim Peters wrote:

> [Marcin 'Qrczak']
>> Would it work for Python to not heap-allocate ints but tag them in
>> the lowest bit, assuming pointers are even?
> 
> No, and for several reasons.  The most obvious one is that Python runs on
> word-addressed machines, where no bits of a pointer are abusable.
Unless Python runs a more strict allocation policy (Allocate only 
even-numbered dwords, or limit the allocation storage to half the size).



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sun Aug 12 08:36:20 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:36:20 +0200
Subject: from __future__ import generators 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "11 Aug 2001 18:33:30 EDT."
             <oqbslm4479.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> 
Message-ID: <m15VuTc-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Fran?ois Pinard) wrote:

> [Guido van Rossum]
> 
> > If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we can
> > do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against breaking
> > code this way, but maybe it's OK.  At least 'yield' is not a silent break.
> 
> My voice is surely not representative, but it is a voice nevertheless.
> When the direction is good, I prefer to see things moving forward, and
> would avoid `from __future__' here.  Yet, I also understand the concerns you
> have about not disturbing other Python users.  My opinion is that globally
> replacing `yield' by something else, using about any editor, is an easy
> challenge.  It could be advised somewhere in the transition documentation.

I checked my code and won't be effected by the introduction of
`yield` (unless some `yields` hide in dynamic code not showing up
in a grep :).

I'm also in favor of Python moving forward. But, and this is a big
but, I'm even more in favor of avoiding code breakage. Silent code
breakage is absolutely horrible, non-silent one is still a pain.

While it is easy to grep for occurences of `yield` it is not trivial
to automatically replace all the right occurences of it (and to avoid
replacing any of the wrong occurences during that process). If anybody
thinks otherwise, please post your preferred regular expression for
the replacement on c.l.py. I'd bet that it is either incorrect (i.e.,
not covering the right cases) or terribly unreadable.

Even though I'll be annoyed by the `__future__` imports I'd still vote
for them.

Regards, 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Thu Aug  9 00:06:03 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 04:06:03 GMT
Subject: a break for comprehensions
References: <mailman.996515638.21022.python-list@python.org> <ac677656.0107301331.5330d4db@posting.google.com> <Pyk97.4104$9i1.318163@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <U9H97.163512$EF2.22005506@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <ac677656.0108011124.53b4af52@posting.google.com> <Dukc7.237464$EF2.29204130@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <L_nc7.241033$EF2.29456854@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Cliff Crawford <cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu> menulis:
| 
| Then you can do stuff like the following, which simulates the Unix 'cat'
| command (warning: untested):
| 
| files = reduce(lambda x, y: x+y, GenList(iter(open(sys.argv[1:]))))

Ooops, that should be

files = reduce(lambda x, y: x+y,
          [GenList(iter(open(filename))) for filename in sys.argv[1:]])


| for line in files:
|     print line,
| 
| 


-- 
Cliff Crawford                           http://www.sowrong.org/
"Today's Goths, who generally tend to be in their teens and 20s,
have nothing to do with the Germanic Visigoths of Europe in the
third and fourth centuries A.D."               -- Jimmy Stewart


From Jason.Jurkowski at usa.xerox.com  Tue Aug 21 12:26:25 2001
From: Jason.Jurkowski at usa.xerox.com (Jason Jurkowski)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:26:25 -0400
Subject: error when importing python extension
Message-ID: <3B828BB1.7070409@usa.xerox.com>

Hi,
I'm using Python2.0 from BEOPEN.COM on solaris 8.  I've written an
extension module, compilled it into a shared library and fixed a couple
of ImportErrors.  Now when I try to import the module I get the
fallowing error:
SystemError: _PyImport_FixupExtension: module rdcr not loaded
Has anyone ever faced this problem and solved it?  Or perhaps you know
what the interpretor is complaining about.
Thanks,
Jason



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 01:01:57 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:01:57 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7B53C5.87ADCF16@engcorp.com>

brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> 
> On 15 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:
> > That's fair.  A consequence though is Python seems like a one-person
> > project, where Guido did a very good job on the parts he found
> > interesting, and left other parts somewhat half-baked.
[...]
> let me at least offer these few bits of advice:
> 
> 1 - If you're new to Python, give it a chance; get a few programs under
> your belt so that your negative feelings towards some features are based
> on experience more than knee-jerk reactions.
> 
> 2 - Try thinking Pythonically. Just because something is different in
> Python doesn't make it bad. If you really want to judge the merits of
> Python then you need to let go, as much as possible, of some
> preconceptions or notions of how things ought to be. 

To that end, check out http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#zen and
if you don't feel an inner sense of agreement with most of that
list, maybe Python isn't for you.  If you do, give it a chance
and you may come to see the benefits of Python the way we do, and
overlook its "curiosities" (which as Dave said, really just don't
get in the way in day-to-day programming).

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From dwig at advancedmp.net  Fri Aug  3 14:23:07 2001
From: dwig at advancedmp.net (Don Dwiggins)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 11:23:07 -0700
Subject: Problems creating an app with Py2exe
Message-ID: <u66c557g4.fsf@advancedmp.net>

I have a little wxPython script that I want to package as an .exe.  I've
tried both py2exe and McMillan's installer, and was defeated both times.

This message is about my experience with Py2exe, version 0.2.6 (with
ActiveState Python 2.0.0.203).  I've included quite a bit of the gory
details, hoping that something may point to the problem.

The app uses wxPython (2.3) and the win32com client functions, in particular
Dispatch and gencache.EnsureDispatch.  It works fine when interpreted
directly.

I have the following setup file:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
import py2exe
from distutils.core import setup
import win32com.client

setup( name = "PartfinderMaint",
       scripts = ["PartfinderMaint.py"],
       packages = ['win32com.client']
       )
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I first tried "python PFMsetup.py py2exe --debug -w", but it stopped
partway through with the message:
  error: python20_d.dll: No such file or directory

After removing the "--debug", it completed with the following warnings:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
warning: build_py: package init file 'win32com\client\__init__.py'
          not found (or not a regular file)
warning: build_py: package init file 'win32com\client\__init__.py'
          not found (or not a regular file)
warning: install_lib: 'build\lib' does not exist -- 
         no Python modules to install
warning: install: modules installed to 
         'build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib\Python20\', which is not in
         Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to
         change the search path yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(I've folded the lines by hand.)  Question: what file would I change to fix
the search path, and how would I change it?  Does this refer to the
distribution, or to something to be done on the target machine?

Trying to run it in the dist/PartfinderMaint directory, I get a traceback
that ends with the following:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 File "win32com\client\gencache.pyc", line 430, in EnsureDispatch
 File "win32com\client\gencache.pyc", line 414, in EnsureModule
 File "win32com\client\gencache.pyc", line 231, in MakeModuleForTypelib
 File "win32com\client\makepy.pyc", line 261, in GenerateFromTypeLibSpec
 File "win32com\client\gencache.pyc", line 444, in AddModuleToCache
 File "win32com\client\gencache.pyc", line 468, in _GetModule
 File "imputil.pyc", line 117, in _import_hook
 File "<string>", line 60, in _finish_import
 File "imputil.pyc", line 294, in _load_tail
ImportError: No module named win32com.gen_py
----------------------------------------------------------------------
However, I see that it has built the gen_py subdirectory, and the package
with the right GUID for the component I'm calling:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
$ ls -R gen_py/
gen_py:
00000205-0000-0010-8000-00AA006D2EA4x0x2x5/  __init__.py  dicts.dat

gen_py/00000205-0000-0010-8000-00AA006D2EA4x0x2x5:
__init__.py
----------------------------------------------------------------------
... and __init__.py has the code for the component I'm calling.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Don Dwiggins                    "Solvitur Ambulando"
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net




From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug 22 02:22:05 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:22:05 GMT
Subject: Python users
References: <mailman.998435406.14498.python-list@python.org> <TmFg7.159484$g_3.25287935@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o6jlb.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:08:35 GMT, Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> Kim
> Check out www.povray.org

I think you meant www.python.org :P. 

> If you are using Windows, you may want to install the windows distribution
> also that comes with a nice windows IDE.  You can find this at:
> www.activestate.com
> 
> Also, check Amazon.com
> and search for Python under Books.
> Learning Python and Python Internet Programming are good introductory books.
> A more advanced one is Programming Python by Mark Lutz
> Good luck with your endeavours, and I am sure with a bit of work and
> patience, Python is a language you'll LOVE :)
> Maan
> 
> "Kim C Tran" <KCT at EMIA.com.au> wrote in message
> news:mailman.998435406.14498.python-list at python.org...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm really new to python language, where is the best place to learn ??
>>  and where can I find the latest of Pythonwin for python2.1 ??
>>
>> Any help really appreciated,
>> Kim,
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 24 18:05:40 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 15:05:40 -0700
Subject: Tim & Guido in the top 10
References: <mailman.998683959.327.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m6j3k01tc9@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.998683959.327.python-list at python.org>, Skip says...
>
>
>Just happened to be on the sourceforge.net home page and noticed that Tim &
>Guido are the fifth and ninth ranked users, respectively.

Gee, I hope doesn't make them fourteenth!

Doesn't ESR have a high ranking, too?  And I can see why.  After reading "The
Catheedral and the Bazaar" again today, I've become convinced that fetchmail is
the most important piece of software ever written <wink>.  (I'm not sure his
refutation of "Brooks Law" makes any sense, though.)

i'm-ranked-ahead-of-all-at-'zero'-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From jessefw at loop.com  Sat Aug 25 01:20:04 2001
From: jessefw at loop.com (Jesse F. W)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:20:04 -0700
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
In-Reply-To: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3B86D314.17830.A4B215C@localhost>

Greetings to all you large snake fanciers,
Maan M. Hamze wrote:
> Is it possible to link Dictionary values of each key into a text file?
This is probably more tricky and cute than you really need, but it is 
so tricky and cute I could not resist posting it on the list.

In Python 2.2 and later...

import types, os

class FileDict(dictionary):
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		value=dictionary.__getitem__(self, key)
		if os.access(value, os.R_OK):
			return open(value).read()
		raise ValueError, 'Value is not a readable file!'

class FunctionDict(dictionary):
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		return dictionary.__getitem__(self, key)()

class FileAndFunctionDict(dictionary):
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		value=dictionary.__getitem__(self, key)
		if type(value) == types.FunctionType:
			return value()
		if os.access(value, os.R_OK):
			return open(value).read()
		raise ValueError, 'Value is not a readable file!'

	I only downloaded Python 2.2 _today_ and already I am using 
the class/type unification features!<0.5 wink>
>  So the value of a key is a text file somewhere on the PC.  And if so,
> how do I instruct Python to open the text file and print into screen
> when the key of the text file is used? Also, is it possible to link a
> value of a Dictionary key into a Python function/procedure?  So, if
> the key is encountered, a way for the functionprocedure to be run.
> Maan
 





From woodm at equire.com  Fri Aug 10 16:14:08 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:14:08 -0600
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <3B9EC544@twigger.nl>
Message-ID: <3B744090.1050707@equire.com>

Ok, so swap works, just like you said it should.  (I'm still mad that I 
didn't see that.)

however, the next project is to write a 'cycle_variables' function (or 
single line like you did before.)

So, this time, we take an arbitrary number of variables, and cycle them 
through.

def cycle (*vars) :
   print 'Cycling the variables...'
   vars = list(vars)
   print vars
   temp = vars[0]
   for index in range(len(vars) - 1) :
       vars[index] = vars[index + 1]

   vars[-1] = temp
   print vars
   print 'See, I cycled them!'

A = 'a'
B = 'b'
C = 'c'
D = 'd'

print """Here's the original set:"""
print (A, B, C, D)
print

cycle(A, B, C, D)

print
print (A, B, C, D)
print """Oh, I guess I didn't really cycle them afterall."""


Obviously, that example doesn't work.  Is there a way to make it work?  
I don't necessarily know if such a function would be all that usefull, 
but I can't sleep at night because I haven't been able to figure out the 
solution.  (That's a little exageration  :'-(   )

And once again, thanks for all you guys/gals who have helped me out.

Hans Nowak wrote:

>> ===== Original Message From "Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> =====
>> Ok, I've been banging my head against this for a sufficiently long time
>> that I feel justified in presenting this personal challenge to the list.
>> 
>> How do you make a swap function?
> 
> 
> You don't need to. :)  Use:
> 
>   a, b = b, a
> 
>> How do you make a function or a callable object instance that will do
>> what the following code intends to do:
>> 
>>   def swap (heaven, hell) :
>>           purgatory = heaven
>>           heaven = hell
>>           hell = purgatory
> 
> 
> Python's internal workings are very different from languages like C and 
> Pascal. A Python "variable" is not a location in memory that you can fill with 
> arbitrary data. This Pascal code:
> 
>   X := 3;
>   X := 42;
> 
> changes the value of X, which resides at a certain location in memory. But the 
> equivalent Python code
> 
>   x = 3
>   x = 42
> 
> does not do exactly the same; rather, it binds the name 'x' to the value 3, 
> then rebinds that name to the value 42. Other people explain this better than 
> me; see
> 
>   http://w1.132.telia.com/~u13212494/guides/python-objects.htm
> 
> HTH,
> 
> --Hans Nowak
> 
> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010810/56f3caaa/attachment.html>

From steve.yanney at sophos.com  Thu Aug 23 09:32:37 2001
From: steve.yanney at sophos.com (steve.yanney at sophos.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:32:37 +0100
Subject: Using the Medusa web-server on a Macintosh
Message-ID: <OF104F26F7.30B6560B-ON80256AB1.0049B28A@uk.sophos>

Has anyone successfully used The Medusa web-server on the Macintosh?

I have tried to do this, but during its use the select() function call that
determines which sockets are ready for reading, returns erroneous objects.
Namely, the listening socket is indicated as being ready to read, but when
its accept method is called, it fails due to the fact that it isn't
actually ready to read. This prevents the server from functioning as it
should.

I would appreciate any comments on this.

Thanks







From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 13 22:52:34 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:52:34 -0700
Subject: Newbie lists question
References: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not>
Message-ID: <9la41f$8al4g$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Does something like this feel better?

>>> d = {}
>>> for i in (1,2,3,2,3,4,3,4,5):
 d[i] = d.setdefault(i,[])
 d[i].append(i)

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------


"Wolfe Maykut" <wolfe at spam.me.not> wrote in message
news:3B785215.19D583C8 at spam.me.not...
>     Hi.  I'm trying to create a list on the end of a dictionary.   I'd
> like to have a single loop, but since the dictionary is dynamically
> generated it appears as if I have to test to see if the key is around
> and then treat each case differently in order to initialize the loop.
> It looks ugly.  Is there a nicer way of doing this that I'm missing?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>                 --Wolfe
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import os, time, glob, string
>
> backupdir = glob.glob("/netbackups/.disks/disk*/*.out")
>
> prefixes = {}
>
> for file in backupdir:
>     filename = string.split(file, '/')[-1]
>     prefix = string.split(filename,'.')[0]
>     if prefixes.has_key(prefix):                     # This is the loop
> I think is tres' ugly
>        prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>     else:
>         prefixes[prefix] = []
>         prefixes[prefix].append(file)
>
> for key in prefixes.keys():
>     print key
>     for file in prefixes[key]:
>         st = os.stat(file)
>         format = time.strftime("%b-%d-%Y-%H:00", time.localtime(st[8]))
>         print "  ", file, format
>



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 11:19:14 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:19:14 -0700
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
References: <3B86028A.9F5F9967@sgh.com.sg>
Message-ID: <9m5rie$ggkn$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

If the file is small enough to be read into memory, you could read it in
then split it on the delimiter.  Otherwise, you'd need to write something
that reads the file in chunks and returns records.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"YMK" <gbeymk at sgh.com.sg> wrote in message
news:3B86028A.9F5F9967 at sgh.com.sg...
> If I know the "Record Separator" of a flat file, how do I set to read
> one record at a time ?



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 11 13:53:52 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:53:52 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import generators
In-Reply-To: <3B73BAE1.7BA5ADBB@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECJLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Joal Heagney]
> Well as a quick test, I went through my entire python1.5 install
> (because it's the oldest python code I've got lying around :) grepping
> for "yield" and only found the following references.
> ... [4 occurrences in comments] ...

The same is true of the current Python distribution.  But we don't ship any,
e.g., financial modeling code, so I bet "yield" isn't so conspicuous by
absence in *some* peoples' code.  We won't hear about it until it breaks,
though (by definition, alphas and betas don't find any problems in real
users' code <wink>).

[Andrew Dalke]
> ...
> The only other examples I saw in the first 200 hits were
> a use of yield for Stackless, and that Java's Thread uses a 'yield'
> method, which would be a concern for Jython.

Jython uses different parsing technology, and is tolerant of reusing
language keywords as method names.  From

    http://www.jython.org/docs/differences.html

    Jython allows keywords to be used as identifier name in some
    situations where there are no conflict.  This allows jython to
    call and override java methods with names like 'print' and
    'exec'.

CPython may grow that ability too someday, depending on when you submit a
patch to implement it <wink>.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 15:46:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:46:15 +0200
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9kpgrt03099@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Phil Tomson" <ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563 at e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
    ...
> >change a class's bases...) --
>
> Not sure about this one - do you mean that you can change the class's base
> class?

base classes, plural (which I had shortened to 'bases') -- you can change
the tuple of base classes of a class, yes (multiple inheritance), and indeed
the typical use is adding a mix-in on the fly, e.g.:

    theclass.__bases__ += (themixin,)


Alex





From mail at fredriks.org  Wed Aug 22 08:48:45 2001
From: mail at fredriks.org (Fredrik Stenberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:48:45 +0200
Subject: base classes
In-Reply-To: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000@spel21.nada.kth.se>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Pete wrote:
> One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute called
> 'a'
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 1
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 2
> class aa( a1, a2 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
>
> AA = aa()
> print AA.__dict__
> --------------------------------------
> this code prints:
> {'a': 2}
>
> but if I change self.a to self.a_ in class a1:
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a_ = 1
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 2
> class aa( a1, a2 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
>
> AA = aa()
> print AA.__dict__
> ------------------------------------------
> I got:
> {'a_': 1, 'a': 2}
>
> The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
> workaround?
>

I'm not sure this is what you want but you can always prefix the attr
with "__" to get name mangling...

Check out,
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011600000000000000000
(section 9.6 in the python tutorial)

Example;

class a1:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.__a = 1

    def printa1(self):
        print self.__a

class a2:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.__a = 2

    def printa2(self):
        print self.__a

class a3:
    def __init__( self ):
        self.a = 3

    def printa3(self):
        print self.a

class aa( a1, a2,a3 ):
    def __init__( self ):
        a1.__init__( self )
        a2.__init__( self )
        a3.__init__( self )

AA = aa()
-----------------------------
>>> AA.printa1()
1
>>> AA.printa2()
2
>>> AA.a
3


/fredriks



From vivienm at emerald.ith.dyndns.org  Wed Aug 29 20:10:17 2001
From: vivienm at emerald.ith.dyndns.org (Vivien M.)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:10:17 -0400
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com> <mailman.999003461.10891.python-list@python.org> <5517632f.0108291034.72a5ea2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8d8469@news2.lightlink.com>

Jason Wisher <jason_wisher at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If you're looking for a stable name, check out dyndns.org or other services
>> like it that allow you to associate stable names with dynamic addresses.
>> Also, hopefully your server won't get much use.  @home is an asymmetric
>> connection.  Transfer rates from your machine to the net will be about 10x
>> slower than rates to your machine.

> Also check out DNS2Go (http://www.dns2go.com); free, reliable, and
> much cooler than dyndns.

Really?

Let's take each of your points here:
a) Free - last time I checked, our (dyndns.org) dynamic DNS service was free 
too. Sure, having something like mydomain.com with us requires donations,
but DNS2Go charges for it too.
b) Reliable - Let's see here... DNS2Go has three DNS servers, all of which
seem to be in the Detroit or neighbouring area, and two of which share the
same UUnet connection. dyndns.org has DNS servers in four locations:
Waltham, MA; Ithaca, NY; Fremont, CA; and London, UK. Not to mention that we
have a public status page at http://www.dyndns.org/status.shtml
c) Cooler? How so? DNS is DNS, plain and simple.

Honestly, I question your agenda, considering you seem to have posted to two
different newsgroups in a short period of time saying the same thing, but I
think the record ought to be set straight.

Vivien


-- 
Vivien M.
vivienm at dyndns.org
Assistant System Administrator
Dynamic DNS Network Services
http://www.dyndns.org/


From relfx at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 11 01:03:07 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:03:07 -0400
Subject: Perk - Python Internet Klient
Message-ID: <EX2d7.19728$Ke7.602870@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I'm trying to figure is client out but I'm really not sure I should extract
it to.
i'm running windows 98. Can someone help me please. Here is the link and the
information on this client from it's homepage.

http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/perk.html

Perk - Python Internet Klient:

This is release 0.1 of Perk, an IRC/mud client (with planned support for AIM
and ICQ) written in Python. Perk's biggest feature, of course, is it's
scripting language (i.e. Python, an extremely intuitive object-oriented
language that looks just like executable pseudocode). Perk also features
multiple connections using different protocols; for instance you can have an
IRC connection, a mud connection, and (eventually) ICQ running at the same
time, from the same program, using the same interface.
This version is the first to use Tk for its interface. Unfortunately this
broke the curses code used in the first release; I plan to merge it back in
in a later version.


Installation
You must have Python 1.5.2 installed beforehand. (It may work with earlier
versions, but this is currently untested and unsupported.) See the Python
homepage to get a copy. Then do

        # gunzip perk.tar.gz
        # tar -xf perk.tar

Or just tar -xzf perk.tar.gz if you have Gnu tar.
If you're running Windows, you should be able to use WinZip or something
similar to uncompress the file.


Downloads
Version 0.1 (gzipped tarball, 18K)
Version 0.0000001 (first release, with curses interface; gzipped tarball,
8K)





From ron.l.johnson at home.com  Mon Aug  6 19:15:39 2001
From: ron.l.johnson at home.com (Ron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:15:39 GMT
Subject: Downloadable 2.1.1 documentation?
Message-ID: <vyFb7.59124$oh1.22487457@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

Hi, all.

At http://www.python.org/doc/2.1.1/download.html, all I see in
zip, gzip & bzip2 format is the v2.1 documentation.  Will the
2.1.1 on-line documentation be archived any time soon?

Sincerely,
Ron


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Fri Aug  3 10:44:12 2001
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:44:12 +0100
Subject: Plea for help with Large File Support
Message-ID: <3B6AB8BC.D41700A3@nipltd.com>

Hi,

The system I'm working on is Debian 2.2 (potato) with a ReiserFS 3.5 partition
on it. I'm assured that on this setup, I should be able to have files of up to
4GB in size, currently I get barfage at exactly 2GB :-(

What do I need to do to get Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1 compiled in such a way
that I read and write to files bigger than 2GB?

cheers,

Chris



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug  3 15:41:48 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:41:48 -0500
Subject: 2.2 features
In-Reply-To: <3B6AF2B5.A98EDD39@ActiveState.com>
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
        <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
        <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com>
        <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com>
        <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com>
        <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva>
        <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org>
        <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
        <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
        <mailman.996843727.12021.python-list@python.org>
        <cpd76dxeni.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
        <3B6AF2B5.A98EDD39@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <15210.65148.137457.400857@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> For example, this would be illegal:

    Paul>    except x not in class ZeroDivisionError:

But this would be a common construct I think.  You often don't want
SystemExit and KeyboardInterrupt caught, so I think it would be useful to be
able to have

    except x not in clas SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt:

when you want a mostly catchall except.

Skip



From paul at boddie.net  Tue Aug 21 06:21:19 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 03:21:19 -0700
Subject: Solaris, python and wxPython
References: <88bc63c6.0108200531.385ae8af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108210221.75a71702@posting.google.com>

writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) wrote in message news:<88bc63c6.0108200531.385ae8af at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I've got Python-2.1.1 and wxPython installed on my Solaris 2.6 Sun
> Ultra5 machine and I'm having some problems.

You really ought to visit http://www.wxpython.org and check out the
mailing list archives. Another recommendation: search the newsgroups
at http://www.google.com for wxPython and Solaris within
comp.lang.python to see some recent messages on the subject. I
remember finding a site with a recipe for building wxPython on
Solaris, and I believe I posted the site's location.

It's hard to diagnose the problem you describe, but there can be a
number of factors at work: incompatible versions (wxPython, wxGTK,
Gtk), inappropriate compiler and linker flags (remember that this is
Solaris!), insufficient run-time linking information
(LD_LIBRARY_PATH).

Paul


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 23:03:30 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:03:30 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997728501.21397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpofpje44k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Glyph, give it a rest.  I hear loud and clear what you are saying.  At
this point, stepping up the rhetoric will have an adverse effect on
your case.  We may always disagree in how important we find the
various aspects of Python, but I know what you think is important.
Please understand what I think is important, even if you disagree -- I
don't expect to change your mind, so please do me the same favor and
stop trying to change my mind.

That said, the decisions I am making for the new type system in 2.2
are not cast in stone.  I consider the new class mechanisms added to
2.2 the first experimental release of a very far-reaching new feature.

Some important things to keep in mind:

(a) Your existing dynamic classes won't break in 2.2, *unless* you
    explicitly choose to enable the new class mechanisms (e.g. by
    inheriting from 'object' or using an explicit __metaclass__).

(b) Based on the experiences with use of the new class mechanisms as
    deployed in 2.2, I'll refine the design for 2.3.

(c) I expect that "classic" classes will remain the default until
    Python 3.0, where they will disappear -- by then, almost everybody
    will be using the new classes, though we may have a backwards
    compatible metaclass for code that connot be converted completely.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From relfx at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 15:21:25 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:21:25 -0400
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
Message-ID: <D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Hello everyone,

                             I'm a bit curious about a few things what is
the difference between Python 2.1.1 and Pythonwin?

   Which one would be the better of the two since i'm running windows 98 and
getting ready to run windows 2000?

   Also there is a a particualr script that norton tells me that I should
stop when installing active python 2.1.1. Does anyone know or have
experience with all this?





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 30 00:29:11 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:29:11 -0400
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com> <3b8c6396.98182759@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <uheuqgoh4.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) writes:

> while 1:
>     print "don't do locks over NFS!"
> 
> 
> This position may POSSIBLY be able to be softened for NFS V4.

Fine grained file locking is horrid over NFS (even after you figure
out what custom independent communications path you want to use to
indicate locks), but sentinel file locking can still be done.  If you
use a directory rather than a file (e.g., your "lock" operation is to
try to make a directory), then generally your request is atomic all
the way through the NFS RPC and the underlying filesystem.  The major
con is trying to guarantee that you clean up since there's no live
handle, but it's still often better than nothing.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug 23 01:44:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:44:26 -0400
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEGJLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> I don't see any conflict between portability and other GC methods not
> counting those which play with the machine memory protection hardware.

Or assume that the low-order bit of a pointer is usable to hold info, or
assume a pointer fits in a C long, or assume that the program doing GC has
control over all allocated memory, or etc.  If you want a generational
scheme, how are you going to identify "bad" cross-generational links
efficiently when they happen without playing VM-protection games?  If, e.g.,
every stinking pointer read or write needs to be a macro expansion checking
"by hand", performance goes down the tubes.  The history of effective
generational schemes is the history of exploiting platform gimmicks to
effect efficient read or write barriers.

> ...
> Yes, simple M/S isn't appropriate except for small systems.  A
> generational scheme is indicated here.  However, maybe some future
> implementation can avoid doing so much heap allocation.

That alone could have a bigger effect on speed than choice of GC gimmicks;
e.g., in

    i += 1

today, Python spends more time fiddling refcounts than doing the useful
increment; but the extreme dynamic throughput would provoke M&S schemes into
gobs of "useless" work too.

> At that point it should be possible to compile Python into pretty
> good machine code.

Well, there are many barriers to that.  Going back to i+=1, Python has no
idea at compile-time what type of value i is bound to, and fully resolving
that at runtime probably costs more than the refcount fiddling.

> ...
> By Lisp-style GC, I mostly just mean GC that handles circular
> structure properly.  At another level it means GC that doesn't require
> a lot of programmer attention when writing C extensions, as ref
> counting needs.

It always requires attention, and in my experience M&S gc catastrophes are
no easier to track down than refcount bugs; to the contrary, throw a
threaded collector into the mix and they're pure hell to track down.  So
long as extensions are coded in C, memory management is going to be a
headache.  There are approaches to writing extensions in C++ that manage to
hide almost all of the refcount hair, though.

[on http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html]

> Thanks, that's an interesting paper but I don't know what to conclude
> from it.

Good!  Then I'd say you grasped his main point, but perhaps don't want to
believe it:  it's too complicated for casual pronouncements to enjoy any
credibility.

> Zorn's measurements started in Berkeley in the 80's.  Back
> then, a typical workstation was a 16 mhz 68000 with 80 nsec memory
> access time.  These days, a typical workstation is a 1 Ghz Athlon with
> 50 nsec memory access time.  So today's CPU is > 100x faster (more
> parallelism in addition to higher frequency) but memory is only
> slightly faster.  So the cycle cost of a cache miss has gone up
> tremendously--you can execute 50 or more instructions in the time it
> takes to read something from DRAM on a cache miss.  This -has- to have
> some effect on the cost of memory fragmentation.

Sure, but on the other hand it means every cache miss you *don't* take
because RC managed to reuse memory instantly is that much bigger a win, too;
while zooming all over memory chasing pointers is the least cache-friendly
instruction sequence imaginable.  There's simply no killer argument here.

See http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/oops/papers.html for more recent work,
esp. Johnstone and Wilson's 1998 "The Memory Fragmentation Problem:
Solved?".  They measured fragmentation rates averaging 1% across a number of
programs using non-relocating allocation, and conclude:

    ...
    While it is clear that there must exist some programs for which this
    is not true, it shows that the received view of the fragmentation
    problem is simply wrong, and fragmentation is not the kind of problem
    30 years of research generally assumed it was---typical program
    behavior is very favorable to several clearly excellent allocation
    policies, due to strong regularities in program allocation and
    deallocation behavior.

I don't believe them either <0.9 wink>.

>> ain't-nothin'-obvious-about-gc-strategies-ly y'rs  - tim

> That's for sure--there's a large literature of GC research that goes
> back for decades.  It's not appropriate to ignore everything that's
> been tried.

I agree, but why would you assume we're ignoring something (let alone
everything)?  We don't have the resource to *implement* every scheme that's
been suggested over the last 50 years, but I expect there are few I haven't
heard of myself, and none that *somebody* in the Python community hasn't
heard of and considered.  The best of what has been implemented and measured
is what we ship; there's a long string of complex patches we haven't
shipped, because they performed worse.  I don't know what else you want us
to do, but if that's not an empty set I predict disappointment <wink>.

sourceforge-remains-open-for-more-patches-ly y'rs  - tim




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 16:24:13 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:24:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
In-Reply-To: <20010830210625.A320@10.am>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301617580.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, mallum wrote:

> on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:39:03AM -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> > Have you tried compiling against glibc or dietlibc
> > (http://www.fefe.de/dietlibc/)?
>
> The device Im devloping for only has 3mb's of space ( jffs2 compressed
> filesystem though so slightly more.. ) so glibc is not really an
> option.

Yeah, I'll believe that :)

I don't think that you could squish it in there even using static linking.

But does it at least work properly if you do link it against glibc?

> AFAIK dietlibc is not as developed as uClibc .

No, I don't believe it is either.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From rob at jam.rr.com  Wed Aug 15 10:33:17 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:33:17 GMT
Subject: global declaration from within functions
Message-ID: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com>

I just posted this to the Python Tutor list, so please forgive the
cross-posting. I'm just academically curious about this.

*Learning Python* (pp. 99-105) points out that declaring globals from
within functions is possible, and shows how. I'm trying to think of
*why* one might want to declare or modify a global from within a
function.

A friend who knows quite a bit more than I do about the subject said:
"That's the first thing about python I've seen that really makes me go
"yecchhh.".  Global variables have to be declared outside the scope of
any functions or methods in almost every langauge except Perl."

stumped,
Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 24 00:05:50 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:05:50 -0400
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <mailman.998573411.21163.python-list@python.org> <a0567c6b.0108231921.76359385@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Tkkh7.113116$rV6.5942344@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Mark J" <maj64 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a0567c6b.0108231921.76359385 at posting.google.com...
> Hans Nowak <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message
news:<mailman.998573411.21163.python-list at python.org>...
> > >===== Original Message From Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> =====
> > >Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?
> > >
> > >        [f(x) for x in a]
> > >
> > >just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
> > >to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,
> > >
> > >        map(lambda x: f(x), a).
> > >
> > >Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
> > >is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
> > >the language.
> >
> > Interesting... one of the reasons to add this was because it was thought
to be
> > more readable than the functional stuff (map, filter, lambda)... :)
Sometimes
> > it is. Compare:
> >
> > >>> [x*2+1 for x in range(10) if x % 2]
> >  [3, 7, 11, 15, 19]
> > >>> map(lambda x: x*2+1, filter(lambda x: x%2, range(10)))
> > [3, 7, 11, 15, 19]
> >
> > I think the first one is clearer, but that's largely a matter of
preference.
> > Sometimes I use a listcomp, sometimes a simple map will do. I think that
this
> > feature was added to provide an alternative to lambda/map and friends,
which
> > encourage obfuscation. (If this was the case, it's incomplete,
methinx...
> > there's no alternative for 'reduce'.)
>
> But how about the straightforward, obvious, syntactically consistent,
> and just as fast (yes, I did a test):
>
> l = []
> for x in range(10):
>     if x % 2:
>         l += [x]
>
> List comprehensions do seem a bit of a syntactic "hair" just to save
> one name assignment.  If you're doing it to just save a few lines of
> code, that's easily done too without adding more inconsistent syntax:
>
> l = []; for x in range(10): if x % 2: l += [x]
>
> In what cases are list comprehensions significantly better?
>

>>> l = []; for x in range(10): if x % 2: l += [x]
Traceback (  File "<interactive input>", line 1
    l = []; for x in range(10): if x % 2: l += [x]
              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

When they don't give syntax errors?

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 21 21:06:24 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:06:24 +1000
Subject: input of data from keyboard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211930390.2562-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
References: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211930390.2562-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <01082211062400.28818@ike>

On Wednesday 22 August 2001 10:40, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> > Hi,
> >   what function can I use to get input from the keyboard (or stdin)?
>
> (I'm surprised nobody responded sooner...)

I responded as soon as I got the mail. I suppose your mail feed is just plain 
faster than everyone else's...


   Richard




From deblnonospammy at theworld.com  Thu Aug 23 01:02:59 2001
From: deblnonospammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:02:59 GMT
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com> <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <to7dejr8jk4e87@corp.supernews.com> <FSWg7.1085$54.66815@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B848DEC.386015D3@theworld.com>

I am afraid the original poster (me) is ignorant so a link or two to
appropriate information is fine.  I need to check with our software head
to find out exactly what he has in mind.  I was thinking of those Java
applets that I assumed download Java byte code to your browser and then
execute on the client.  So replace Java byte code with Python byte code
and execute it from the browser.  I very much would like to understand
what Steve and Maan refer to.

Thanks,

David Lees


Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> Indeed. But the question asked if Python could be used "as Java is used in
> the browser". Which I took to mean client-side, not server-side like ASP.
> 
> regards
>  Steve
> --
> http://www.holdenweb.com/
> 
> "Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
> news:to7dejr8jk4e87 at corp.supernews.com...
> > Steve
> > The win32all implementation installs the Python ActiveX scripting engine.
> > This means that it can be used in ASP pages without the need for any
> client
> > to have Python installed.  In cases like that, Python should be installed
> on
> > the server only where Python is run.
> > Maan
> >
> > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> > news:sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > > "David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3B82FB32.258CB937 at theworld.com...
> > > > Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?  I
> > > > assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is some
> > > > sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute
> Python?
> > > >
> > > > I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java, because
> of
> > > > the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could be
> > > > used directly.
> > > >
> > > The ActivePython implementation, or standard Windows Python with the
> > > win32all extensions, allow you to use Python as an ActiveScripting
> > language.
> > > However, you will need to be able to guarantee that all your clients
> have
> > > Python installed: is this something under your control?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >  Steve
> > > --
> > > http://www.holdenweb.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 04:50:40 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:50:40 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net> <vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kj1f602gku@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp at 4ax.com...
>
> >Would you use it often enough to warrant a language change?
>
> Personally, probably not. I'm really only observing that many of
> the requests for "type safe containers" that you see around are
> really on a desire to have uniform containers. It's easy enough
> to create these by hand if your really want them.

I haven't seen many such requests.  Anyway, it's clearly trivial
to subclass UserList, overriding append and __setitem__ to make
sure the items being added satisfy some per-item test (be it
a type-test or something more clever) -- is that what you mean?


Alex





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Aug 30 20:31:12 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:31:12 +1000
Subject: Two Jython Questions
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09F08@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Maan M. Hamze [mailto:mmhamze at pleiades.net]
> Mats
> I figured out how to run things and how to set the path of classes.
> However, I am still running into one problem.  I am compiling 
> a test.py file
> into test.class using jythonc and keep getting this error on 
> running the
> class file:
> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Test
> By the way, I discovered that it creates test.java too.

Sounds to me like you have the code set up like this ...

# test.py

class Test

    # some stuff

Now, Java (and Python for the most part) is case-sensistive on the
filesystem level. So, when you compile 'test.py' you end up with
'test.class'.

Then in your Java code you try to use the class 'Test'. It then searches for
a file called 'Test.class' - and doesn't find it!

Try renaming your file to 'Test.py' (note case) and try again.

Tim Delaney



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Aug 16 08:08:20 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:08:20 GMT
Subject: Feedback welcome!
References: <0i8lnt4q3b027nst6us2hlq4pgd2qvrgqe@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <UIOe7.123135$Xr6.666658@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

   Hi David,

> The head developer and owner of our company responds to user feedback
> so naturally the loudest communties get what they want while the rest
> don't. I've been a fan of Python and I am very much interested in
> developing an editor with Python and Python developers in mind but I
> can't convince my boss to include Pyhon in our future plans if he
> doesn't hear from the community itself. Even the Ruby community in
> Japan makes itself heard!

   While the Python community has put quite a bit of effort into building
editors ourselves, there are still plenty of opportunities for a company to
compete with these free efforts. Studying the existing open-source Python
editors and integrated development environments will show the sorts of
features we find valuable. Much Python software is licensed under conditions
that allow inclusion in proprietary products, so many of the features could
be incorporated into your product either by direct copying if they are
implemented in the same language as your product or by translation.

   The feature that I find of most importance when comparing products is
implementation quality. I'll gladly pay for commercial software when that
software has a similar feature set but fewer bugs and faster performance
than free software.

   One feature that should receive more emphasis in editors is integrating
with code auditing tools such as Python's PyChecker
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/pychecker/). As a first step, it should be
possible to run PyChecker over a Python source file and have the code that
fails audit highlighted in a similar way to spelling/grammar errors in
Microsoft Word with coloured underlines. As a further step, PyChecker should
be run continuously in the background highlighting errors as soon as they
occur. This sort of feature is not just useful for Python - HTML can be
checked with various validity and compliance tools.

   Neil (lead developer of Scintilla/SciTE)




From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug 15 23:46:22 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108152027190.17698-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 15 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > Paul Rubin wrote:
> > >
> > > Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
> > > keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.
> >
> > You might say that.  The good news is that what Guido did was
> > substitute his own sense, which in the case of language design
> > appears generally to be better than the "common" sense.
>
> That's fair.  A consequence though is Python seems like a one-person
> project, where Guido did a very good job on the parts he found
> interesting, and left other parts somewhat half-baked.

Hi Paul,

(Note: as you read my post, please imagine me reading it to you with a
good-natured smile on my face)

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I, and my current
opinion is that you are loony. I mean no offense, but why are you using
Python? From each of your posts I get the message that the language just
rubs you the wrong way. If so, don't use it - as you are keen on pointing
out there are other languages you like better.

I've been using Python for several years now and it is the "most baked"
(best designed, most solid, [insert other positve superlatives here])
language I know. All languages have their warts but Python has suprisingly
few (and they're very often hidden away from most of what I do), and most
people find that living with those little problems is well worth it
because Python benefits them in so many other ways (I like an order of
magnitude improvement in productivity, I like that programming is fun
again, etc, etc).

Anyway, if I've totally misunderstood your feelings, please forgive me and
let me at least offer these few bits of advice:

1 - If you're new to Python, give it a chance; get a few programs under
your belt so that your negative feelings towards some features are based
on experience more than knee-jerk reactions.

2 - Try thinking Pythonically. Just because something is different in
Python doesn't make it bad. If you really want to judge the merits of
Python then you need to let go, as much as possible, of some
preconceptions or notions of how things ought to be. You gotta leave
behind the Java/C/or whatever baggage.

3 - Look for the positive (!) - if you're hunting for problems then you
will find them. Big deal, of what use is that? Out of all the issues
you've raised so far, exactly ZERO of them have caused me enough pain in
the past to complain about them. Maybe I'm just easy to please, or maybe
these things are less of a problem in practice than they are in theory (or
maybe some combination of both).

Like I said, I mean no offense. Have fun,
Dave




From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug  2 19:31:20 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:31:20 -0700
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> It depends on what you mean by "enclosure".  Per the point above,
> organizations, like people, need to enforce their property rights.

"need" is arguable. I think a whole lot of organizations keep their code
restricted for no good reason. Of course, some folks have good reason:
Microsoft could be a successful company if it opened up it's products,
but it would be no where near as rich!

> If a particular technology makes this impossible or very hard,
> that technology will be met by huge opposition.  I once was in
> the position of having to authorize buying Sun's 'C' compiler
> rather than using the GPLed GCC for exactly this reason.  Even though
> I, and all the engineers who worked for me, preferred GCC, I could
> not in good conscience expose my company to the possibilty  of
> being forced to reveal the inner workings of a product that
> was our key competetive distinction in the market we served.
> This sort of thing is not unusual.

Why in the world was this a possibility??? I can see that paranoid
non-lawyer non-techie execs might think so, but while the GPL can be
considered a virus, it is not very contagious. It only acts that way if
you want to include GPL'd code in your code base, not if you want to use
the output from an executable that happens to be built from the GPL.
This is very well accepted. If you wanted to add functionality to gcc
itself, and keep that private, that's another question, but I don't
think Sun would let you do that either: unless you gave them a LOT of
money!

> This, BTW, is why the GPL is under attack and people are looking
> for alternatives.

Not exactly. There is no problem with using a GPL'd tool to run any part
of your business. The only thing you can't do is include GPL'd code
itself in a proprietary product. That, of course, is a good reason for
libraries and other components that you might want to include with
proprietary software (such as Python) not to be GPL'd. Even if the
CPython interpreter were to be GPL'd you could still develop proprietary
software with it, but you could not include the interpreter, or part of
it in your own app. This ability, of course is very useful, so it's a
good thing it has a more liberal license.

By the way, even the FSF acknowledges this, which is why the LGPL
exists.


-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From dean at valtronics.co.za  Thu Aug 16 02:26:42 2001
From: dean at valtronics.co.za (DR)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:26:42 +0200
Subject: string operations (ctrl characters)
Message-ID: <3b7b69da$0$225@proctor>

Hi all.

I have a problem with the using the telnetlib and string modules together. I
am telnetting to a host, getting the screen output with read_until(), which
is fine, but it prints out some kind of weird control characters, which I
guess are escape codes or something to do with telnet itself.

This is a sample of what I'm talking about:

[[

[[[nfo: [rriving:


Now, those characters (the block-like thing and the [) weren't the only
characters I was getting, but I managed to replace the rest using
string.replace and re.escape

first I converted the escape codes to \'s with re.escape

        test2 = re.escape(test1)

then replaced the \ with a blank

        test15 = string.replace(test14,"\\",'')

which worked great. There were also some "0m-39m" which I replaced with
blanks, too.

So all I'm left with is [ and . I tried to do the same for those
characters, but I can't seem to get rid of them.

        test15 = string.replace(test14,"\\",'')
        test16 = string.replace(test15,"[[" ,'')

The above attempts didn't work.

If anyone could offer any advice or suggest a better way of doing this, it
would be great.  Is there a better way of doing this ??

the greater context is below:
#######################################

tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST,5000)

tn.read_until("Name:")
tn.write(user + "\n")
tn.read_until("Password:")
tn.write(password + "\n")



tn.write(' ')

aaa = 1
while aaa == 1:

 test1 = tn.read_until('says:')
        test2 = re.escape(test1)
 test3 = string.replace(test2,"0m",'')
 test4 = string.replace(test3,"30m",'')
 test5 = string.replace(test4,"31m",'')
        test6 = string.replace(test5,"32m",'')
        test7 = string.replace(test6,"33m",'')
        test8 = string.replace(test7,"34m",'')
        test9 = string.replace(test8,"35m",'')
        test10 = string.replace(test9,"36m",'')
        test11 = string.replace(test10,"37m",'')
        test12 = string.replace(test11,"38m",'')
        test13 = string.replace(test12,"39m",'')
        test14 = string.replace(test13,"1m",'')
        test15 = string.replace(test14,"\\",'')
        test16 = string.replace(test15,"[[" ,'')
        test17 = string.replace(test16,"" ,'')

 print test17

Thanks a lot,
D.R.




From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Fri Aug 17 05:10:23 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 02:10:23 -0700
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9ligoo0s2g@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lin1v$d57$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <9ligoo0s2g at enews3.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>news:9lifo8$cdv$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
>    ...
>> 2) the input strings to the de/compress functions can be modified
>>    outside of the zlibmodule while the zlibmodule functions are
>>    working on them.
>
>Python strings are immutable.  Strings CANNOT be modified, ever.
>Just make sure you addref the string object when you start using
>it and decref it when you're done with it, so it doesn't get freed
>from under your nose, of course.

Aren't input parameters INCREF'd on the function call into C?  I can't
imagine it'd be very cool to have something like:

a = "hello there!"
fn(a)
print a
(core dump)

happen...

>> http://chabry.caltech.edu/~t/transfer/zlibmodule.c
>
>I get a 404 on this:

fixed.  The file that is there contains my latest changes, which I have
just submitted as a patch (taking out the unnecessary cruft & fixing up
the comments to reflect my new understanding of Python strings... ;)

thanks,
--titus


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 10:03:20 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:03:20 +0200
Subject: case sensitivity redux (was Re: Language change and code breaks)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107191316390.24983-100000@bms>        <mailman.995571273.18192.python-list@python.org>        <9j7gv8$9mg@dispatch.concentric.net>        <cppuawfqbm.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107231434170.15565-100000@oliphant.ee.byu.edu>        <532qlt453irrepptskcvp213d44r3so2e2@4ax.com>        <cp4rs2qf6p.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>        <3B5DF282.87266DA2@earthlink.net>        <cpr8v5a8h5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>        <9k5tg301mn9@enews4.newsguy.com>        <3b66c4ce.904451372@wa.news.verio.net> <mailman.996600239.11301.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k927g0md4@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.996600239.11301.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> them to remap their keyboards as you can do with X/xmodmap, so they could
> move the underscore into an unshifted position.

Easy on Win 95/98, see
    http://www.annoyances.org/cgi-bin/ce-showtopic/004_022
I would assume (but don't know for a fact) that similar
toys exist for SE/NT/2000/XP...


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 08:22:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:22:46 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org> <G6ia7.76096$Cy.10932606@news1.rdc1.az.home.com> <slrn9mknig.4g5.delgado@eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>
Message-ID: <9ke57707r1@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Olaf Delgado" <delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> wrote in message
news:slrn9mknig.4g5.delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE...
> Tim Hochberg wrote:
>
> >isinstance(anInstance, aClass) => aClass.classof(anInstance)
> >isubclass(aSubclass, aBaseclass) => aBaseclass.superclassof(aSubclass)
>
> Not bad! How about
>   aClass.has_instance(anInstance)
> and
>   aBaseclass.has_subclass(aSubclass),
> then?
>
> This would resemble dictionary.has_key(...).

Yes, but it seems to be the wrong way around to me.  A dictionary D
must clearly keep track of its keys, in the mental model I have of it,
so asking D if K is a key makes sense; while a class C doesn't keep
track of its instances, much less of what other classes subclass it, so
asking C whether I is an instance or S a subclass doesn't make any
sense to me.  Rather, I could ask I if it instances C, or S if it subclasses
C, since 'clearly' (to me) an instance knows its type/class and a class
does know its bases/ancestors, but not viceversa.  Like asking K
whether K is a key into dictionary D -- how should K know except
by asking D...?!


Alex





From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 22:40:14 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:40:14 GMT
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python Path Blues)
References: <mailman.998259271.18104.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iM_f7.478065$lq1.92088192@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998259271.18104.python-list at python.org...
> [Maan M. Hamze]
> > What is important here is that this can be a BIG turn-off for beginners.
> > It took me more than a day of tinkering with the registry while trying
to
> > make DCOracle2 and mxODBC packages for Python run correctly.
>> I haven't tried either.  Did their docs tell you to do this?

The doc for DCOracle2 instructs the user to use PYTHONPATH.  The doc for
mxODBC does not, but instructs the user to use sys.path
I used the sys.path for mxODBC and it did not work.  So I added it to
PYTHONPATH envar and it worked.
So of course I am confused :)
>
> > Then I discovered it was all a matter of adding PYTHONPATH into the
> > environment [under Windows]
>
> That's one way to get it to work <wink>.
>
> > ...
> > 1.  Upon installing Python (PythonWin or the regular Python
> > distribution for Windows), the registry itself is updated with the
> > lib path,
>
> It is, but please note that Python never *looks* at this setting in normal
> operation.

Ok!  what setting does it look at then when one adds some library into its
own subdirectory and when one uses the import lib command to use something
from that lib?  sys.path?  is it the sure way?  Or is it to follow the
instructions that comes with the package?  Maybe I ran into some bad luck
then?  Since DCOracle2 and mxODBC did not behave as expected.  Well, they
are working now, but it bothers me that I had to go into all this trouble to
make them work :)
Maan




From dalke at acm.org  Wed Aug  1 17:57:58 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:57:58 +0100
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996351001.12473.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4syrzd.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B643C58.1C6C94F9@ActiveState.com> <mailman.996426594.9989.python-list@python.org> <20010729170054.141$Pa@newsreader.com> <cpr8uzz5uo.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <slrn9mh9ni.dne.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9kamo5$8r8$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Me:
>>What's wrong with 'klass'?

Quinn Dunkan replied:
>Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but my aesthetic reaction is that it's
>really gross.  Every time my eye trips over one of those things I feel like
I
>do whenever I see a sign advertising "Hundred's of Items for Sale".

Then perhaps my statement should be interpreted "let's see what people
have done about this before... ahh, the standard library uses 'klass'
and 'cls'.  Guido brought up 'cls' so by symmetry 'klass' should be
mentioned."

Going back to the olden days - any chance of user testing?  My
gut feeling is that 'self' works fine and there's no need for another
word.  I'll just need to explain that the class is a type of object.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug 28 14:57:44 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:57:44 -0400
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
In-Reply-To: <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEIOLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Rainer Deyke, on '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)' as a way to get 2 digits after
 the decimal point]
> That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
>
> c = (a * 100) / b
> s = '%03d' % c
> file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])

Rainer, your loathing of fp is fine as a personal choice, but let's not
poison our youth without stronger cause than this <wink>.  My bet is the
poster would rather, e.g., see '0.67' than '0.66' given a=2 and b=3.  If
you're going to fake fp by hand, then you're responsible for faking all of
it, incl. sensible rounding.





From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 06:42:10 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:42:10 GMT
Subject: fnorb
Message-ID: <6cqh7.13624$6x5.3624750@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

does someone know what error happens here and what to do (using the python 
object request broker fnorb)

i get this error (as attachment) when trying to do compile the idl-file in 
the examples

command:
$ fnidl HelloWorld.idl 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: trace.txt
Type: text/x-java
Size: 1532 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010824/cb509a03/attachment.java>

From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Aug 26 16:37:48 2001
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:37:48 +0100
Subject: LSP and constructors with first-class classes
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108261838480.10385-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I still can't see what
the 'right thing' is.

I have a class, Fit, that is not intended to be instantiated itself: you
have to subclass it first.  It isn't only an interface, though, it
implements a lot, too.  Quote from docstring:

"""
    Subclasses' __init__ method should call Fit.__init__ with the Scan and
    Data instances as arguments, and then add a Theory subclass as
    self.theory.  Everything else is optional...
"""

The constructor takes two arguments:

    def __init__(self, scan, data):
        """
        scan: must have an attribute 'name'
        data: Data instance
        """
        self.scan, self.data = scan, data
        [...]

Data is unproblematic.  The 'Scan' is what is puzzling me.  It clearly
shouldn't be there: some Fits shouldn't even *have* a Scan.  So I'll get
rid of it:

    def __init__(self, data):

However, instances of most currently existing subclasses *do* need a Scan
instance in order to get themselves into a sensible state.  There are two
ways of making this happen.  First, have the user of a subclass call an
extra method:

class MyFit(Fit):
    def __init__(self, data):
        Fit.__init__(self, data)
        self.data = data

    def set_scan(self, scan):
        self.scan = scan
        [finish initialisation, using scan...]

This would be fine if scan were only needed for new behaiviour, unknown to
Fit, and provided by MyFit, but MyFit needs its Scan just to do the same
stuff that Fit does, so now the instance violates the LSP
(http://www.objectmentor.com/publications/lsp.pdf) because you can't
assume that a newly-constructed MyFit will do the things you expect of
other Fits.

So, second option, change the constructor:

class MyFit(Fit):
[...]
    def __init__(self, data, scan):
        self.data, self.scan = data, scan

Now it satisfies the LSP -- sort of.  It's certainly better than the other
options, and in languages where classes aren't first-class objects, you
would be satisfied.  In Python, however, someone (the future me, for
example) might reasonably expect this to work:

class TheirFitUser(Fit):
    def foo(self, fit_class):
        fit = fit_class(data)
        [...]

This will break on MyFit, of course.

So, is this unavoidable, or have I arguably made a mistake in subclassing
from Fit in this case?  In which case, how should I have organised
things...?

Well, I seem to understand the problem a bit better, having written this,
so by the time somebody answers this, I'll expect to understand the
solution better than they do <0.5 wink>.


John

Anybody (other than Tim Peters) <wink>ing in floating point in this style
has clearly been reading comp.lang.python too much...



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 20:08:56 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:08:56 +1000
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
Message-ID: <01080310085603.14602@ike>

In the roundup project, I (possibly foolishly) decided to make the roundup 
instances python packages. A roundup instance consists of a database store, 
interface specifications (cgi, mail, ...) and other configuration 
information. This is quite separate from the roundup library code, which is 
just a package called "roundup" in site-packages and does most of the actual 
work. This allows a great deal of flexibility in customising the individual 
roundup instances (adding/removing CGI fnuctionality, altering the database 
schema, ...)

The instances therefore consist of:

/home/roundup/issue_tracker/
   __init__.py
   instance_config.py
   select_db.py
   dbinit.py
   interfaces.py
   db/
   html/
   detectors/

The roundup library code, when asked to do something, is passed the 
instance_home "/home/roundup/issue_tracker". It does:

   path, instance = os.path.split(instance_home)
   sys.path.insert(0, path)
   try:
       instance = __import__(instance)
   finally:
       del sys.path[0]

Of course, the fatal flaw with all this is that if "instance" (the string) is 
the same name as an existing imported module, we're stuffed. An early adopter 
tried "roundup" with obvious consequences ;)

So what I need to know is if there is some way to import the instance_home 
package as "instance" rather than as "roundup".

Any advice appreciated...


    Richard



From chrishbarker at home.net  Wed Aug 15 18:23:28 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:23:28 -0700
Subject: [Q] Python and math
References: <4qye7.6344$A3.45832@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7AF660.B05C8360@home.net>

Young-Jin Lee wrote:
> Hi, I'm wondering if there's a open source python code for solving ODE
> (ordinary differential equations)?


check out SciPy at:

http://www.scipy.org/

The ODE docs are here:

http://www.scipy.org/site_content/tutorials/show_ref?input_file=scipy/integrate/odepack.py.html

There is a lot of other nifty stuff there as well!

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug  2 02:02:26 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:02:26 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:22:23 EDT."
             <200108011922.PAA21817@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <m15SBYw-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

> > You mention that the mro-list will be constructed at class definition
> > time. Does that mean that changes to `__bases__` are going to be
> > outlawed? Playing tricks with __bases__ was sometimes handy.
> 
> Changes to __bases__ of built-in types have to be outlawed, but for
> user-defined types it should be possible.  It's not currently
> implemented, but I think it will be.

Uh oh, I didn't think of changing __bases__ for built-ins. That would
be a nightmare waiting to happen. I was just asking about user defined
types/classes.

BTW, you wrote that in 2.2 classes will behave like God <wink>
meant them to behave and that they will be totally unified with types
in a later release. Would that be 2.3? And how would classes change --
besides using the shiny new lookup rule?

> > Do you have a name for the new lookup rule?
> 
> Not yet.  Does it need one?

I think so. It's hard talking about (and teaching) it otherwise. And
`new lookup rule` will age quickly.

Did you invent this rule for yourself or did you steal it from another
language? 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From jessw at loop.com  Mon Aug 27 15:52:02 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:52:02 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <3B89698A.10387.14674253@localhost>
References: <slrn9ofsl7.63j.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <3B8A4272.11479.17B6AC89@localhost>

	I have now published the code for the game I have been 
referring to in this thread on my website:
http://members.loop.com/~jessw/
The file(it is a zip file, sorry) is called miles.zip.
If any of you are interested, please check it out.

	Thank you,
		Jesse W



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 14:02:10 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:02:10 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
References: <mailman.997923024.24854.python-list@python.org> <tnmkhd51goof0b@xo.supernews.co.uk> <eppstein-D1ABF4.22032515082001@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7C0AA1.73B31C6F@ccvcorp.com>

David Eppstein wrote:

> In article <tnmkhd51goof0b at xo.supernews.co.uk>,
>  "Julius Welby" <jwelby at waitrose.com> wrote:
>
> > > Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This zillion special
> > > cases of 404-ish pages is something I use as an example in my
> > > forthcoming book _Text Processing in Python_ (a few more months until
> > > done).  Here's the code I present as an attempt at recognizing what only
> > > humans can:
>
> Humans can't usually see the http response line with the actual 404 number
> in it in place of the 200 indicating an ok page, but machines can -- why
> don't you use that?

Among other things, someone already pointed out that certain "helpful"
webservers will not only generate pretty error pages, but will return those
pages with a 200 number instead of a 404 number.  So, while checking the code is
a good idea, it is not sufficient.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dougfort at dougfort.net  Sun Aug  5 08:39:14 2001
From: dougfort at dougfort.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 13:39:14 +0100
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
Message-ID: <3b6d3e72$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>

>From SlashDot: http://www.a-i.com/challenge/. A contest for developing 
game-playing bots. I really want to write intelligent agents in Python, and 
this sounds like an interesting exercise.

IMHO the extreme flexibility of data structures and procedures makes Python 
a superb language for AI (whatever that is)
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From kosh at aesaeion.com  Wed Aug 22 17:21:50 2001
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:49:50 +0028
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998526813.12118.python-list@python.org> <7xlmkbfr8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <ehu1m9.03p.ln@192.168.0.1>

Paul Rubin wrote:

<snip>
> I guess that might be the case, at least with the current body of
> Python programs.  I'm thinking of Python's implementation in terms of
> whether it's suitable for large, long-running programs, and it's
> not clear whether anyone really writes those in Python.
> 

Actually zope is a long running large python program. I usually have it 
running for a few weeks to a few months at a time and it normally used 
between 40M to 120M depending on what is going on. From what I have seen 
the python system does seem to work nicely for large long running programs 
so long as you don't run them on windows. For some reason from what I have 
seen zope will destabilize on windows after running for a while. Sometimes 
it just slows down but more often it seems to die. On a unix system it 
seems to just keep going indefinitely in my experience. There are some 
discussion a while ago in this group about windows vm fragmentation and 
that could be the problem on windows.
<snip>



From jussij at zeusedit.com  Thu Aug 30 00:16:45 2001
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:16:45 +1000
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <3B8DBE2D.4CD0@zeusedit.com>

Formalin wrote:

> Is there any editor support python?

You should take a look at the Zeus for Windows 
programmer's editor.

Zeus is a powerful, language neutral programmer's text 
editor that can be configured to support almost any 
programming language:

   http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

or you can read what others users think of Zeus:

   http://www.zeusedit.com/awards.html

Jussi Jumppanen
Author of: Zeus for Windows, Win32 (Brief, WordStar, Emacs) Text Editor
"The C/C++, Java, HTML, Pascal, Cobol, Fortran programmers text editor"
Home Page: http://www.zeusedit.com



From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug 30 16:57:34 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:57:34 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net> <3B8CF936.4E20B7E8@student.gu.edu.au> <Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594@pollux.casema.net> <9ml41301p5t@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B8E8EBF.5573DC5@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B8EA8BE.764577B3@home.net>

Chris Barker wrote:

> I have no idea where you live, but I have an old Pentium 90 w/ 64MB and
> PCI bus that I would be happy to give you, if you pay for shipping from
> Seattle, WA, USA.
> 
> It happily ran Linux for years, and got me through my dissertation. Last
> I tried, it crashed on boot with a problem with either the SCSI adapter
> or disk (it is an all-SCSI system, quite hot for it's day! Adaptec 2940
> fast wide, 1GB Fujitsu disk) I already had a new machine, so I never
> bothered to figure out what was wrong with it. IFnothing else, it should
> run fine if you slap a IDE drive in it.
> 
> It's yours if you want it....It's sad to see it get more and more
> obsolete sitting in my closet.

OOPS, I really just meant to send that to Alex, but what the heck:
Anyone that wants it is welcome to it. You just need to pay for
shipping, or pick it up at my door in Seattle.

and-promise-you-won't-use-it-for-evil-ly yours, Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jwbaxter at spamcop.com  Wed Aug  1 20:34:52 2001
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:34:52 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <mailman.996258542.15795.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4u16rx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996270412.11895.python-list@python.org> <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996616382.9383.python-list@python.org> <cpsnfcxwrw.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B682B1F.DCE56009@ActiveState.com> <mailman.996687544.25805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <010820011734520206%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>

In article <mailman.996687544.25805.python-list at python.org>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at zope.com> wrote:

> > except exc isa OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError:
> >     pass
> 
> I find 'isa' ugly (it's not an existing word and unless you're from a
> very specific culture you won't recognize it).  I agree that except
> has this flaw, but I don't want to tie solving it to this discussion
> (i.e. I don't want to talk about it in *this* thread).

And besides, the particular example should be ...exc isan Overflow,...
for many of us.

  --John


From thedustbustr at aol.com  Wed Aug  1 14:36:53 2001
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 18:36:53 GMT
Subject: sockets and classes
References: <Xns90F0321874812rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20010801143653.04329.00000760@mb-mh.aol.com>

I did not include the code to read from the socket in my post to make the code
more readable, but it was there.  And it was recieving data, i accidently had
deleted the 'print data' statement :P

New problem:  I get the following error:
     if arg[0] == 'privmsg':
TypeError: unsubscriptable object
Whats that supposed to mean?

Hres all the code i have, about 100 lines.  Its not commented very well at all
cause I'm in a rush- post if comments are needed for you to understand what I'm
doing.

Thanks, Dustin

#BEGIN CODE BLOCK
# pIRC by Dustin Getz
# a simple IRC client/bot

import socket, string, sys, errno, thread

HOST = 'liberty.nj.us.dal.net'
PORT = 7000

NICK='Dustin2'
REAL='Ima Bot'
QUITMSG='Bye'
IDENT='hacker'

oplist=['Dustin']
commandlist=[]

class Irc:
    def __init__(self, host, port):
        self.host = host
        self.port = port

    def connect(self):
        print 'Connecting to %s:%s' % (self.host, self.port)
        self.sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))

    def sendcmd(self, cmd):
        self.sock.send(cmd)

    def docmd(self,arg):
        pass

    def parse(self, data):
        if string.find(string.lower(data), 'privmsg') >= 0:
            garbage,middle,msg = string.split(data,':')
            sender,cmd,rcpt = string.split(middle)
            arg=[string.lower(cmd),sender,rcpt,msg]
            return arg
        elif string.find(string.lower(data), 'ping') >= 0: 
             sender,cmd,pong = string.split(data[1:])
             arg=[string.lower(cmd),sender,pong]
             return arg

    def prettify(self, data):
        if string.find(string.lower(data), 'privmsg') >= 0:
            if data[:1]==':':
                garbage,middle,msg = string.split(data,':')
                sender,cmd,rcpt = string.split(middle)
                return '<%s> %s' % (sender,msg)
            else:
                middle,msg = string.split(data,':')
                cmd,rcpt = string.split(middle)
                return '<Dustin> %s' % msg
        else:
            return data

#    def get_control(self):
#        while 1:
#            data = self.sock.recv(256)
#            if string.lower(data) == 'die':
#                irc.sock.send('QUIT :%s' % QUITMSG)
#                irc.sock.close
#                self.sock.close
#                break
#            else:
#                irc.sock.send(data)
#                print data

class Log:
    pass

irc=Irc(HOST, PORT)
irc.connect()

log=Log()
log.raw=open('ircraw.txt','w')
log.plain=open('ircplain.txt','w')

while 1:	# initial registration
    data = irc.sock.recv(1024)
    log.raw.write(data)
    print data
    if string.find(string.lower(data), 'got ident response') > 0 or
string.find(string.lower(data), 'no ident response') > 0: break

print 'USER %s localhost localhost :%s\n' % (IDENT, REAL)
irc.sendcmd('USER %s localhost localhost :%s\n' % (IDENT, REAL))
print 'NICK %s\n' % NICK
irc.sendcmd('NICK %s\n' % NICK)

#ctl = irc('localhost',5989)
#ctl.connect()
#thread.start_new_thread(get_control,())

while 1:	# main program loop
    data = irc.sock.recv(2048)
    log.raw.write(data)
    arg = irc.parse(data)
    if arg[0] == 'privmsg':
        if arg[3] in commandlist:
            if arg[1] in oplist: irc.docmd(arg)
            else: irc.send('PRIVMSG %s :You do not have sufficient privleges to
execute %s.' % (arg[1],arg[3]))
        else: irc.send('PRIVMSG %s :Unknown command.  Type HELP for list of
commands.' % arg[1])
    elif arg[0] == 'ping': irc.send('PONG %s' % arg[2])
    display=irc.prettify(data)
    log.plain.write(display)
    print display
#END CODE BLOCK


From neal at metaslash.com  Tue Aug  7 08:20:58 2001
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 08:20:58 -0400
Subject: ANN: PyChecker v0.8
Message-ID: <3B6FDD2A.85FB5B12@metaslash.com>

A new version of PyChecker is available for your hacking pleasure.

        PyChecker is a tool for finding common bugs in python source code.
        It finds problems that are typically caught by a compiler for less
        dynamic languages, like C and C++.

Comments, criticisms, new ideas, and other feedback is welcome.

Change Log from 0.7.5 to 0.8:
  * Add check for accessing list as list[1,2], should be slice 1:2
  * Add -J/maxargs to warn when using too many arguments
  * Add -K/maxlocals to warn when using too many local variables
  * Add -D/intdivide to warn when using integer division
  * Add -O/objattrs to warn when using object.attribute that doesn't exist
  * Add -M/reimportself to warn when a module imports itself
  * Add -E/unusednames to provide a list of unused names to ignore
        (default is: [ '_', 'empty', 'unused' ])
  * Major refactoring of warn.py -> utils, msgs, Warning, CodeChecks
  * Fix spurious warnings for No class attribute for dynamic classes
  * Fix spurious warnings when using objects from blacklisted modules
        (Instantiating object with arguments, but no constructor, etc)
  * Fix spurious warnings when using lambdas
  * Fix spurious warning (No global Y) when using: from X import Y
        (problem in python 1.5/1.6 only)

In case you missed 0.7.5, here's the change Log from 0.7 to 0.7.5:
  * Suppress warnings on a per module/function/class/method basis
        with new suppressions = {} in .pycheckrc
  * Suppress warnings by setting __pychecker__ in source code
  * Change long argument behaviour --arg sets arg to true,
        --no-arg sets arg to false (also works for warning suppression)
  * Add -U/--reuseattr check if function/class/method names are reused
  * Add -T/--argsused check for unused method/function arguments
  * Add -G/--selfused ignore if self is unused in a method (requires --argsused)
  * Add -q/--stdlib to disable warnings from the standard library
  * Add -o/--override warning when a method has different signature
        than one being overridden in a base class
  * Add -F/--rcfile to generate a .pycheckrc file
  * Fix checking files in standard library before local file
  * Fix spurious warning when using from X import Y and imports in methods
        (Module (m) re-imported)
  * Fix spurious warning when doing:  from X import Y, Z
  * Fix spurious warning when deriving from Exception() and
        instantiating object with multiple arguments
  * Fix method argument checks when calling base class methods
  * Fix error msg to base constructors (msg count was wrong)
  * Fix access to builtin module attributes (e.g., sys.exc_value)
        generating 'No attribute warnings'
  * Fix tests (forgot to add : after line number in expected results)


PyChecker is available on Source Forge:
    Web page:           http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/
    Project page:       http://sourceforge.net/projects/pychecker/

Neal
--
pychecker at metaslash.com



From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 18:31:04 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:31:04 -0000
Subject: Timer in Tkinter?
Message-ID: <9lhhj8+9592@eGroups.com>

I am also creating a little vitual pet that updates its mood 
and image every second or so. Basicly, it uses a timer. I used them 
a lot in Visual Basic, and I wondered if there was such a thing in 
Tkinter. I don't know how time.sleep() would work, and it seems I 
need an event. Is there a way to do this?





From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 24 15:16:37 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:16:37 GMT
Subject: simple ping program
References: <mailman.998553514.21024.python-list@python.org> <9m32mk0284o@enews4.newsguy.com> <h8h5m9.hca.ln@Laplace.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3b86a86f.356081337@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:28:01 +0200, Joerg Woelke <lumbricus at gmx.net> wrote:

>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>> "noprianto" <opennopri at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.998553514.21024.python-list at python.org...
>>> hello all,
>
>Hello!
>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know how to make a very simple ping
>>> program, with option to set the packet size....
>
>> http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz
>
>$ wget http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz
>--14:26:55--  http://www.python.org:80/%7Ejeremy/ping.tar.gz
>           => `ping.tar.gz'
>Verbindungsaufbau zu www.python.org:80... verbunden!
>HTTP Anforderung gesendet, warte auf Antwort... 404 Not Found
>14:26:56 FEHLER 404: Not Found.
>
>:-(
>
>> Alex
>
>Greetings J"o!
>
Try http://www.fastgraf.net/scripts/1/ping.tar.gz


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sun Aug  5 22:18:28 2001
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 12:18:28 +1000
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com> <59667b81.0108030610.3ab7c11f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3ae1e9bij.fsf@vole.object-craft.com.au>

benji> Something I haven't seen presented here yet: When starting a
benji> new project to create web interfaces for several databases I
benji> decided against the templating approach (for reasons addressed
benji> elsewhere on this thread).  I started with HTMLgen, but soon
benji> found it to be lacking.  I wrote a simple OO-ized HTML
benji> generating library that has grown over the last year, but is
benji> still quite simple to use.  It reflects my desire to write
benji> Python code that looks like Python, but ultimately generates
benji> HTML.
benji> 
benji> Example:
benji> 
benji> # Build a table.
benji> table = Table(width='100%', border=1)
benji> table.newRow()
benji> table.newCell('foo')
benji> table.newCell(Font('bar', size='+1'), bgColor='#CCFFFF')
benji> table.newRow()
benji> table.newCell(NoBreak('A really long cell.'), columnSpan=2)
benji> print table

Something like that already exists:

        http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/HTMLgen/html/main.html

The Debian GNU/Linux distribution includes this as the htmlgen
package.

benji> The reason I choose this approach is that we are an
benji> all-programmer shop, where we have to do the HTML too.
benji> Therefore tightly integrating it to the code (but keeping
benji> presentation seperate from logic, etc.)  makes more sense than
benji> trying to design the HTML separately.
benji> 
benji> I'm hoping to clean up the code and release it soon, any
benji> interest?

There are some differences between your approach and that of HTMLgen.
I have no doubt that some people will prefer your approach.  By all
means release the code.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Thu Aug  2 00:49:07 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:49:07 -0700
Subject: Converting from strings to integers
References: <e66c2e45.0108011649.71a4ba3e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <00a901c11b0e$78227220$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

From: "Stephen Smith" <ssmith619 at hotmail.com>

> Hi, I'm new to Python and am just trying out an example of file I/O. 
> I am trying to read a file (successfully), and then multiply a value
> by another static variable.  The value from the file was outputting in
> the 'string' format, and I need to convert it into an integer.  I
> tried using the int(x) command, but it doesn't seem to care, it is
> still in the string format.  The number is a plain integer (87, for
> example).  How on earth do you convert the value to an integer? 
> Thanks for your help!

Hmm.  Works for me.  Try pasting a snippet from your python interpreter
when posting a question like that.

I'm guessing, but maybe you were expecting int(x) to change x into
an integer, since you referred to int(x) as a command.  But int is a
function that -returns- an integer.  The variable x is not changed.

>>> x = '87'
>>> int(x)
87
>>> x
'87'
>>> int(x) * 2
174
>>> x * 2
'8787'

Spend some time playing around in the interpreter.  It's a fast way
to learn.

- Ken   kseehof at neuralintegrator.com
http://ww.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof






From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Aug 10 17:11:35 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 17:11:35 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <uelqjr56g.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:
> 
> > I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
> > 'natural question':
> > 
> > Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> > necessary ?
> 
> If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
> can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
> breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
> silent break.

No, but you'd lose the window of time during which code continued to
run but with a warning.  In terms of any transition I'd still favor
having that time period.

(I'll play a little devil's advocate though and say that I haven't
found any use of a variable name yield in some quick greps through the
majority of my local code)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From gabor.pataki at eth.ericsson.se  Thu Aug  2 08:01:56 2001
From: gabor.pataki at eth.ericsson.se (Pataki =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=E1bor?=)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:01:56 +0200
Subject: Python threads with suncc (Forte 6.1) compiler
Message-ID: <3B694134.D7A28779@eth.ericsson.se>

Hi,

I would like to get some help because I am in trouble with threads. I
work on a Solaris 8.0 (64 bit) system. Python is compiled with Sun CC
(Forte 6.1) compiler with threading support. A small program 
telnetting to a computer often dumps core it works fine with gcc.

Thanks,
Gabor Pataki

import threading
import telnetlib

def TelnetToIpw01():
    
        hostname = "my_hostname"
        username = "user_name"
        password = "password"
        
        tn = telnetlib.Telnet(hostname)
        tn.read_until("login: ")
        tn.write(username + '\n')
        tn.read_until("Password: ")
        tn.write(password + '\n')

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
        
        def run(self):
                print "ThreadID", self.cnt, "started"
                TelnetToIpw01()
                print "ThreadID", self.cnt, "finished"

for i in range(0,4):
        m = MyThread()
        m.cnt = i
        m.start()


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 14:08:22 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:08:22 -0400
Subject: doctest and '\0'
In-Reply-To: <3B8F9DC9.B31DAFEA@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEEALJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[jim.vickroy]
> I have installed Python 2.1 on a MS Windows computer.
>
> It appears that doctest does not work with '\0'.
>
> Below is a sample module that illustrates the:
>
>     "TypeError: compile() argument 1 must be string without null bytes,
> not string"
>
> exception being raised.

Consider this isolated snippet:

>>> eval("'\0' *  5")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: expected string without null bytes
>>>

Same thing.  A doctest is a *string*, and sticking \0 in a string creates a
null byte, and a null byte is never legitimate in program source code.

These alternatives work fine:

>>> eval("'\\0' * 5")  # double the backslash
'\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>>> eval(r"'\0' * 5")  # or use a raw string
'\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>>>

> Am I doing something wrong?

Yes, as above.  If you want the code to contain the 2-character sequence

    \0

then you have to either escape the backslash, or use a raw string to prevent
translation of \0 to chr(0) at the time the string is created (which happens
long before doctest ever sees it).

I haven't tried it, but changing the opening of your docstring from

    """

to

    r"""

will probably make the problem go away.




From teo at crepido.com  Fri Aug  3 09:11:09 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 06:11:09 -0700
Subject: Is 4Suites xml-parser slow??? (or am i parsing in the wrong way??)
References: <dd144f8b.0107300137.76f7f931@posting.google.com> <bOua7.757$bXi.180573184@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108030511.49f0f025@posting.google.com>

> See the docs for tips.

> 

> Thomas




Thanks! I'll do that.. 

/teo


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 13:53:54 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:53:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
In-Reply-To: <7xitfcil5r.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251352530.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 25 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Any thoughts on how these compare?  Which would you use to write
> a simple gui application?  How about a fancy application?
>
> I've been playing with Tkinter for a few hours and have some sense
> of its capabilities.  I've never programmed Qt or PyQt at all and
> have no idea what they're like from a programming perspective, but
> am pretty impressed with KDE applications I've used.
>
> Thanks for any opinions/comparisons.

Your list is missing PyGTK, based on GTK+.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 02:00:22 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:00:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
In-Reply-To: <9fuoot4rffi6vf6b6pf0h9o6hbrnv5v25k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290151390.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:32:00 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
> <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.999059623.9527.python-list at python.org>:
>
> :On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:
> :
> :> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
> :> <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> :> <mailman.999043423.30546.python-list at python.org>:
> :>
> :>  [snip]
> :>
> :> :Also, you should make it so that the file is immediately opened in __init__(),
> :>
> :> Why? I don't see any persuasive reason for that. The methods that I'm
> :> using under windows don't allow for me to separate the action of opening
> :> the file and obtaining the lock (there is a single command which does
> :> both), and I wanted to keep the functions between the windows and the
> :> posix versions as close to parallel as possible. In any case, I can't
> :> see any compelling reason for the file opening to occur in the init
> :> function.
> :
> :I just finished talking with a friend who's done more recent Win32 development
> :than me, and he claims that you can reopen the file (without closing it) using
> :the aforementioned API function again in order to apply a lock. It sounds
> :fishy to me too, but it might be worth a shot.
>
> I'm sorry. You lost me here.
> The windows function I'm using (which was mentioned elsewhere) is
> CreateFile. Whether or not I can reopen the file without having closed
> it is immaterial to my module, since my unlock function closes the file
> and deletes the file handle.
>
> What am I supposed to "give a shot" to???
>
> So far, my windows code is all performing as I expect (not that I've
> shared it here...). That may be partly why I'm confused by this segue
> into discussing the Windows implementation.
>
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

Fair enough. Your code works how you expect it to. But does it work how
_others_ would expect it to? With normal files in Python, one call to open()
opens the file, and then you can immediately read() or write() with it.
There's no need to call a secondary method in order to "activate" it; it just
"works".

I don't know if CreateFile() is the correct API function (my friend couldn't
remember the name, MSDN is pooched as usual, the SDK will take a while to D/L,
and my memory fails me), but the class as written doesn't emulate normal
Python behaviour. If you give me time I can find the API function. It
shouldn't take me that long (and it would help if I could find my copy of VC++
6.0 :( ), so just wait a day or two then I can help you emulate normal files
perfectly.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From threeseas at earthlink.net  Sun Aug 26 13:24:05 2001
From: threeseas at earthlink.net (Timothy Rue)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:24:05 GMT
Subject: GUI scripting for windows and Amiga 
Message-ID: <654.638T164T7973322threeseas@earthlink.net>

I know there is Tkinter and other GUI tools that cover more platforms.

Maybe this is just another to add to the list of GUI tools.

http://www.gui4cli.com for the windows version

and from there go to the authors home page to get to the Amiga version
and c source code for it.



---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
   *~ ~ ~      Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue      What's *DONE* in all we do?  *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:timrue at mindspring.com      >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/  ^<--------<----9----<--------<



From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 14:03:04 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:03:04 +0200
Subject: protection of directories
References: <9l144q$j2v$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1004102.koAaWjsssb@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alexander Rebholz <alexander.rebholz at monkey-design.de> schrub:

> I don't  know  nothing at all about python. Unfortunately I have to
> modify a pyhton script anyhow. The problem is the following. A user
> has to fill out a form which will also ask for a password. That form
> is forwarded to a pyhton script. With this script the filled out
> content of the form is forworded via email. Furthermore if the
> password is correct the user will get access to certain directories.
> Well now the problem: If a user knows the correct link of the
> "password protected" directory, he can get there without filling out
> the form. So I guess I do need a script which will check out whether
> the user did fill out the form before. Can that be done with python?
> Or is there any other simple solution?

I assume you talk about http access to a webserver. 

In the case you use apache, .htaccess is the right place to look, you 
can configure there that the user has to supply username and password.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Sat Aug 25 14:47:04 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:47:04 GMT
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998697818.7844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9ofsl7.63j.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:59:41 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote:
>William Tanksley wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote:

>> >if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop': how would this be tested?

>> It wouldn't -- it would be deleted and abhorred.  That's a violation
>> of encapsulation and of the law of Demeter (google that if you don't
>> know what it means).

>	I have looked it up on google.  For the lurkers, (and my own 
>greater knowledge), I will rephrase what I found:  The Law of 
>Demeter means that you should have as few dots(in Python) in your 
>code as possible.  You should make special functions to do 
>whatever you need done, instead of just doing the thing where you 
>need it done.(Yes, I know that's a sort of pejoritive way of putting it) 
>:-) 

That's reasonable, yes.  Another way to look at things is that no code
should tell some other object how to do its job.  In this case you're
reaching in through 3 objects and expecting to get a specific result --
that REALLY makes writing those three objects hard.

>> The problem is that each object should have an interface to do
>> everything it needs to do.  You shouldn't have to reach inside any
>> object to inspect how it's doing its job.  The above code should look
>> like 'if self.app.anyPlayersInStoppedBattles():' (I'm assuming that's
>> an appropriate name).

>> However, your question still remains: how do you unit test objects
>> which are supposed to delegate operations to other objects?  The
>> answer is that you write the unit test without assuming any
>> delegation.  That method you mentioned should work whether or not
>> delegation is happening; and your test won't care, because it only
>> tests the method, not the implementation.

>Now this, I don't understand(yet).  What do you mean, "delegate 
>operations to other objects?"  What the example code I included 
>above does is check wheather the current player in the game is 
>stopped.

The fact that I couldn't tell what that code did was a good clue that it
was written wrong.  You could have changed the names of the objects to
make the test make more sense -- for example,

if self.theGame.current_player.battle.kind=='stop':

But even this doesn't say to me "check whether the current player in the
game is stopped."  It actually says, "check whether the game's current
player's battle is of the stopped kind."

>I don't see how the method could work if there was no 
>current player object.

The existance of a 'currentPlayer' wouldn't matter to this object if
theGame had a method to answer this important question.  In order for me
to write this code, though, I have to know what it means to theGame
when the current player is stopped.

I can rewite some code right now, though:

class Player:
  def isStopped():
    return self.battle.kind == 'stop'

Now we can reasonably talk about a player being stopped -- players can
tell you whether or not they're stopped.

Of course, you'll recognise that I'm still violating the law of Demeter.
The reason I'm doing that is that I don't know why each player needs a
"battle".  Are you implying that there's a battle going on inside every
player?  Perhaps your battles should contain players, rather than your
players containing battles.  At any rate, what does it mean to ask a
player's battle whether it is of the stopped kind?  Why does having a
stopped battle also stop the player?

>Also, please say more about your last sentence, about testing only the
>method, not the implementation.

An excellent question.  I'll answer in the form of a list of rules, with
the first rule being by far the most important (in fact, all the others
follow from it).

Wait.  First let me remove a possible unclarity: when I say "method" above
I'm talking about the procedures which form an object.

1.  Write your test before you've decided how to code the guts of your
object.
2.  When you're testing an object, test ONLY properties of that object,
never properties of contained objects.
3.  Test ALL of the properties of the object which will be used by any
other object.  If a property hasn't been tested, don't ever use it; if
you're about to use a property in a manner which hasn't been tested, write
a test for that property and add that test to the object's unit tests.

Does this make sense?

If you follow these rules, your tests will not only be tests; they will
also be documentation.  Furthermore, they will document how to use the
object correctly, not how the object works internally.  When you test only
the methods and properties an object exposes, you don't have to worry
about testing the implementation -- and that means that you can change the
implementation if you feel like it.  (The last sentance uses the words
"method" and "implementation" in order to make it clear that I'm still
talking about testing the methods, not the implementation.)

>		Jesse W 

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net  Mon Aug 20 12:51:41 2001
From: jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net (jason petrone)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:51:41 +0000
Subject: Solaris, python and wxPython
References: <88bc63c6.0108200531.385ae8af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u6frl9.9l5.ln@demonseed.net>

Doug Farrell <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've got Python-2.1.1 and wxPython installed on my Solaris 2.6 Sun
> Ultra5 machine and I'm having some problems.  When I try to run the demo.py
> program from the wxPython directory under Python-2.1.1 I get the following
> error:

> % python demo.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "demo.py", line 3, in ?
>    import Main
>  File "Main.py", line 15, in ?
>    from   wxPython.wx import *
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/__init__.py",
> line 20, in ?
>    import wxc
> ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: relocation error: file
> /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/wxc.so: symbol
> FindClass__11wxClassInfoPc: referenced symbol not found

> Can anyone tell me what this means, how to fix it of anything that
> might help me?

It looks like you compiled it on a different machine than you are trying to 
run it on.  Try recompiling it, don't use binaries from somewhere else.

jason


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 27 11:56:47 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:56:47 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271111390.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271951350.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> 1.1? Ouch.
> 
>   ftp://ftp.rpmfind.net/linux/sourceforge/expat/expat-1.95.2-1.src.rpm

And what is really strange, RedHat 7.1 has expat-devel.i386.rpm, but
it's expat.src.rpm doesn't give it :-)

I wonder, where from expat-devel appears???
(SOURCERPM of expat-devel == expat.src.rpm) 

It seems, RedHat has inconsistencies...

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From printers at sendme.cz  Fri Aug 24 11:17:28 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:17:28 +0200
Subject: How to extract cookies?
Message-ID: <3B868C28.28154.6C0635@localhost>

Hi,
I use httplib module to POST to a website.From  the response( 
header) 
I need to extract cookies. Can you advise me how I can do that 
please?


The header I receive looks like

Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:24:33 GMT
Location: MemberPortfolio.asp
Connection: Keep-Alive
Content-Length: 140
Content-Type: text/html
Set-Cookie: 
ECEurope=Password=&Email=leads%40sendme%2Ecz; 
expires=Sun, 21-Oct-2001 23:00:00 GMT; path=/
Set-Cookie: 
ASPSESSIONIDQQQGQLQO=ABNGDCNBDOIEFJEEPJAOJDKE;
 path=/
Cache-control: private

Thank you for help
Ladislav





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 09:55:18 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:55:18 +0200
Subject: case sensitivity redux (was Re: Language change and code breaks)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107191316390.24983-100000@bms> <mailman.995571273.18192.python-list@python.org> <9j7gv8$9mg@dispatch.concentric.net> <cppuawfqbm.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107231434170.15565-100000@oliphant.ee.byu.edu> <532qlt453irrepptskcvp213d44r3so2e2@4ax.com> <cp4rs2qf6p.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B5DF282.87266DA2@earthlink.net> <cpr8v5a8h5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9k5tg301mn9@enews4.newsguy.com> <slrn9mgqq1.9ma.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9kbm4802t5t@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn9mgqq1.9ma.quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:24:18 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >One aspect I haven't seen mentioned in this huge thread is the
> >issue of visually impaired programmers.  Case sensitivity is an
> >extra burden for such people (with whom I strongly empathize: my
> >sight is still OK, sufficient to drive a car &c, but it's going
> >downhill with time, and I must face the very real possibility
> >that I'll be _seriously_ visually impaired a few years from now).
>
> I don't see what case insensitivity in the language would give you over a
> case-correcting editor, aside from you having to use the case correcting

The problem is when two different identifiers in the same
scope ONLY differ by case (which is what it means for a
language to be case-sensitive, after all).  I haven't yet
found any case in the standard libraries where this is
*exploited* -- i.e., I suspect Python's standard libraries
would work just fine if Python *were* case-insensitive.

But if it ever happens, then the 'case-correcting editor'
isn't going to be able to do very much about it -- it
wouldn't let you ENTER such a program in the first place,
but what's supposed to happen when you fire it up on a
piece of code that's already thus wretchedly written?

I'd like a casenanny switch on python, similary to the
tabnanny... get at least a warning, optionally an error,
if any code ever *DEPENDS* on case-sensitivity (changes
meaning because case is meaningful, compared to what it
would mean if case wasn't meaningful).  If we can run the
tests on the standard libraries with that switch set to
permanently-on, and establish this as a reasonable style
guideline for the standard libraries, then it only remains
to sensitize third-party authors of cool stuff that it
would be more sensitive of them to do the slight edits
to their code to make it insensitive to case-sensitivity.
If you sense my drift...


Alex





From tavis at calrudd.com  Fri Aug  3 19:27:28 2001
From: tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 16:27:28 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108021700.70b4ce67@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f67cb2b7.0108031527.77c4af8@posting.google.com>

Graham,

grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) wrote in message 
> tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd) wrote in message 
> > Cheetah works with any type of data, not just text. It doesn't force
> > you to do anything like that.
> 
> The documentation when talking about placeholders says that if the value
> is not a string, it applies str() to it, or if the value is callable that
> it calls it and then applies str() to the result.

That's only for the final interpolation.  If you have a method that
returns a list of client objects and you want to iterate over that
list to create some HTML, here's how:
----------------------------------------------
<TABLE>
#for $client in $service.clients
<TR>
<TD>$client.surname, $client.firstname</TD>
<TD><A HREF="mailto:$client.email" >$client.email</A></TD>
</TR>
#end for
</TABLE>
----------------------------------------------
##compare this with PSP
<TABLE>
<% for client in service.clients(): %>
<TR>
<TD><%=client.surname()%>, <%=client.firstname()%></TD>
<TD><A HREF="mailto:<%=client.email()%>"><%=client.email()%></A></TD>
</TR>
<%end%>
</TABLE>
----------------------------------------------
Note: 
-You can turn off the auto-calling behaviour if you don't want it.  
-You can use a character sequence other than $ if you wish.
-You can do things like this:
   $myList[3:15],  $obj.meth($a*5, kwarg1=$b)

The docs are rather incomplete at the moment.  I'm about to upload the
latest version from the CVS, which is much more complete.  The
Velocity project (essentially Cheetah for Java) has some good
documentation at http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/index.html

> I agree that *SP looks horrible and can become a mess. I think PSP in
> particular is potentially worse than others *SP implementations if one
> tries to use space or tab indenting ala Python style. Makes editing of
> the page potentially complicated.

The Webware implementation has some crafty ways around the indentation
problem, rendering it a non-issue.

> > > In the architecture I have, I guess I am uncomfortable about having code
> > > related to presentation mixed up in the service objects. 
> > > I suppose that
> > > some service objects may specifically relate to presentation, but in the
> > > main I would want to preserve the idea of services returning data related
> > > to the model, rather than a view of that model.
> > 
> > Ditto. That's exactly why I dislike PSP, PHP, etc. and is why we
> > created Cheetah.
> Huh? I am not sure your comment shows agreement with my thinking. I don't
> want presentation code in service objects as those service objects may be
> in totally distinct processes from where the web server engine is. 

Same here ... (quoting from the Cheetah Users' Guide)
=============================================
1.2 What is the philosophy behind Cheetah?

   Cheetah aims:
     * to make it easy to separate content, graphic design, and
program
       code.
       A clean separation makes it easier for a team of content
writers,
       HTML/graphic designers, and programmers to work together
without
       stepping on each other's toes and polluting each other's work.
The
       HTML framework and the content it contains are two separate
       things, and analytical calculations (program code) are another.
       Each team member should be able to concentrate on their
specialty
       and to implement their changes without having to go through one
of
       the others: i.e. the dreaded webmaster bottleneck.
       Other advantages to separation include:
          + faster development time.
          + HTML and program code that is easier to understand and
            maintain.
          + content that can be displayed in a variety of non-HTML
            formats such as PDF.
          + highly modular, flexible, and reusable site architectures.
...
=============================================
Like PSP, Cheetah doesn't require any presentation code in your
service objects.  That sort of stuff belongs in the template instead.

BTW, your documentation for OSE is excellent!!

Cheers,
Tavis


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 22 17:01:55 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:01:55 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
Message-ID: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>

I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
already a standard function to do it. Sadly, perusal of the
tutorial, library reference, language reference (briefly),
and FAQ has thus far been unenlightening. Pointers
appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# Member, GFAPOOA (Global Front Against Promulgation Of Obscurantist
Acronyms)
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug 23 19:07:34 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:07:34 +1000
Subject: I dont get this!
In-Reply-To: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>
References: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>
Message-ID: <0108240907340X.28818@ike>

On Friday 24 August 2001 08:16, Peter Sundling wrote:
> Help! :)
> I have been programming in python for some time now, and today i
> found a strange bug in my code i cant get rid of...
>
> Here is a code snippet where something is wrong somewhere:
>
>
> def check_hilo(i):
> 	if value[i] < low[i]:
> 		return 1
>
> 	if value[i] > high[i]:
> 		return 2
>
> 	return 0
>
>
> ...Simple, huh? I have never had any trouble with something like this
> before.
> The thing is that this procedure always returns 1.
> I have tried to rewrite this little source code a couple of times,
> in many different ways, and it still returns 1!
>
> If i compare value to high before i compare it to low, it still returns
> 1.
>
> As an example: value[i] was 103, low[i] was 25 and high[i] was 35.
> As far as i know, 103 is greater than 25. But python seemes to disagree
> on that...
> ( if i start the python alone and writes
> print 103 < 25
> it responds 0, But what the hell is wrong now??)

I suspect your values of "value", "high" and "low" may not be what you think 
they are. The function works fine for me...


>>> def check_hilo(i):
...          if value[i] < low[i]:
...                  return 1
...          if value[i] > high[i]:
...                  return 2
...          return 0
... 
>>> value = [103]
>>> low = [25]
>>> high = [35]
>>> check_hilo(0)
2


    Richard



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Wed Aug 22 14:16:46 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:16:46 GMT
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <mailman.998462073.19252.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iGSg7.15$Ub3.177268@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>

> None of those create a list.  OTOH, if you try to *mutate* the dict while
> iterating over it in these ways, you deserve whatever you get.

I recommend fail-fast iterators: the dictionary object itself keeps
track of its active iterators and invalidates them if it's mutated.
Subsequent attempts to iterate on the invalidated iterator result
in a ConcurrentModificationException.


C//






From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Aug 23 20:10:26 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 19:10:26 -0500
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 23)
Message-ID: <61D6F1E7786C4E13.4DE8B9D4B295E8AB.E9DBE7C2DB88A337@lp.airnews.net>

    Language use:
    The perennial unit testing questions arise:  what should be tested?
    how do you set up a testing environment?  and how do you test GUIs?
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=3d937598aa164a8f,14

    Continuing the interest in Python-aware editors last week, Alan
    Green posts a list of python IDEs.  Discussion ensues about why
    some people like IDEs and some people don't:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=424469e8ee7ab91f,14

    "The PLEAC project plans to reimplement all of the programs from the
    Perl Cookbook in a variety of other languages."  Currently it is
    incomplete.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f045f8be10734300,3

    Announcements:
    "PySpy does run-time visualization and analysis of Python software."
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=8fdcaace862828a3,8

    "PythonCard is a software construction kit (in the spirit of Apple's
    HyperCard) written in Python."
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=786b9d830b315c5d,4

    "SciPy is an open source package that builds on the strengths of
    Python and Numeric providing a wide range of fast scientific and
    numeric functionality."
        http://groups.google.com/groups?th=2312c152abad017c,1

    "A work-in-progress design document for the Python-based SCons
    software construction tool is now available at the SCons
    documentation page:"
        http://www.scons.org/doc.html


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continues Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
        http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

    Python Journal is at work on its second issue
        http://www.pythonjournal.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 04:15:10 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:15:10 +0200
Subject: getting rid of data movement instructions
References: <mailman.998259150.17466.python-list@python.org> <9lqkp8019r@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b818eb2.201580257@news.laplaza.org> <3B81B216.570AA8C1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9lt5af01gev@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B81B216.570AA8C1 at engcorp.com...
    ...
> Also re-expressed as one of the principles of Goldratt's
> "Theory of Constraints".
>
> 5. Don't let INERTIA become the system's constraint. Once
> you have "broken" a constraint, go back to Step One!
>
> (see http://www.constraintsmanagement.com/history/ )

Don't use this line of reasoning too much in Italy these
days -- it was the main theme of an advertising campaign
last year (I forget for what product, which tells you
something about the effectiveness of advertising) which
starred the head of engineering of the Mercedes/McLaren
Formula-1 racing team (winners of the '98 and '99 World
Champtionships).  With Ferrari edging out McLaren for
first place last year, and winning easily and far in
advance this year (and also BMW/Williams apparently
much in the ascendant wrt Mercedes/McLaren), that line
of "obsessive research of perfection one bottleneck at
a time" is temporarily disgraced around here:-).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 12:03:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:03:44 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9kp3hs026g6@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn9mu445.62q.quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu...
    ...
> Eiffel goes even further with this, for example:
>
> fp.read_line
> s := fp.last_string
>
> I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety or
not.

To me, it seems cleverly designed to maximize threading
problems/race-conditions/horrid-bugs.


Alex





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 13:42:56 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 17:42:56 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9niop0.ru.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:35:16 GMT, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> pisze:

> I guess I have a bit of a hidden agenda: Python is more dynamic than
> the language I *wanted* to design.  Some of the dynamicism was simply
> a implementation trick.  Some of the dynamicism is getting in the way
> of optimizing code, because the optimizer can never prove that certain
> variables won't be changed.  So I'm trying to look for ways that pin
> down things a bit more.  I'm making assumptions about how "typical"
> Python code uses the dynamic features, and I'm slowly trying to
> introduce restrictions in the language that make the optimizer's life
> easier without affecting "typical" code.

This will not be directly relevant for Python, although maybe somebody
will find a use of parts of this. I need some help with making things
less dynamic.

Crossposting to comp.lang.misc. I really wanted to talk with Python
people, so followups are set to comp.lang.python; feel free to change
to comp.lang.misc. I'm sorry for the off-topic. Python people just
appear to have good minds for these things.

Many years ago I wanted to design an ideal programming language.

Later I learned many more existing languages, realized how naive my
ideas were, how languages for different purposes should be different,
what diverse principles languages are based on, and that it doesn't
matter that much for practice: how important are reasons other than
technical details of the language core.

I was no longer working on my own language, and even discouraging some
people from repeating my mistakes. More important for practice and also
fun is helping teams maintaining existing language implementations,
which often drive language design of non-mainstream languages. I
adopted Haskell for the purpose of being called "my language",
and recently watched closely Python development and took part in
discussions about it.

But my old dreams are crying, wanting to become true. I couldn't
resist. Now, with different feelings, I quickly designed and
implemented a little language, only for enjoying working on it.

[...]

The language is similar in spirit to Lisp and Python, with some of ML,
Haskell and Smalltalk added. Design goal: simple core, still reasonably
convenient and readable (unlike pure lambda calculus or Forth for
example) but more idealistic than pragmatic, with interesting stuff
implemented in the language itself. Here is a description.

The main syntactic entity is an expression. An expression denotes
a function. A function takes a sequence of functions as arguments,
performs some action, and returns a value (or throws an exception
which is also a value). There are no static types but scoping is
completely static.

It follows that all arguments are passed by name (arguments are
functions themselves). Most functions however begin with evaluating
their parameters once (applying them to empty sequences) and
remembering the results. This effect is obtained by the default syntax
of function definition. It's thus equivalent to passing arguments by
reference. Since all values are immutable, the default effect is also
equivalent to passing them by value.

Values are either functions (as described above), or terms, or
boring primitives (integers and strings for now). A term has a symbol
(an unique tag for distinguishing a family of terms) and a sequence
of values.

That's all of the execution model. More sophisticated objects,
including imperative features, are expressed as functions, perhaps
builtin. Objects don't have intrinsic identity.

[...]

I have a prototype interpreter written in Haskell:
      24 lines of abstract syntax,
     191 lines of lexer,
     114 lines of parser,
      45 lines of the runtime system,
     423 lines of builtins (evolving much),
     226 lines of the interpreter of the core,
      60 lines of the main program (read-eval-print loop),
     379 lines of the standard library (evolving much),
      38 lines of the Makefile,
    ----
    1500 in total.

The standard library introduces the concept of a type. The type of an
object is used to choose implementations of generic functions applied
to it.

A type is represented as a symbol. Here is how the type of an object
is determined:
- If it's a function, it's called with one argument: the symbol Type,
  and is expected to return its type.
- If it's a term, its symbol is looked up in the dictionary of types
  of symbols.
- Types of integers and strings are fixed to Integer_t and String_t.

Moreover there is a dictionary which maps types to tuples of things
called its supertypes (a tuple is a term with the symbol being Tuple).
Perhaps they should be functions returning tuples, such that supertypes
can depend on the considered object (e.g. some proxy would have
type Proxy itself but its supertypes would include the type of the
wrapped object).

A generic function is created from a dictionary which maps types to
functions. When such function is called, it determines the type of
its first argument and looks up the implementation in the dictionary.
If it's not found for the given type, its supertypes are examined
recursively (depth first search). If it's still not found and the
first argument is a function or term, a generic type Function_t or
Term_t is tried. Finally Object_t is tried; an entry at Object_t is
the default implementation for all objects not having their own.

I think this is similar to how CLOS expresses methods. Unfortunately
I have almost no experience in Lisp and I never read complete Lisp
references. But I'm sure that my language has much in common with Lisp.

I had a chicken-and-egg problem here. Hashing and equality are good
candidates for generic functions. They are needed for implementing
generic dictionaries. In order to look up types in the dictionary,
it must be determined how types are hashed, so the hashing function
should be extracted from the relevant dictionary at Type_t. How to do
it? The type of Type_t is Type_t, so one has to determine how to hash
Type_t by looking up a dictionary at Type_t, oops! Even to determine
that the type of Integer_t is Type_t one has to look up Integer_t in
a dictionary, which needs its type to hash it...

I solved this by using dictionaries specialized for symbols (they
use no generic functions) and declaring that types must be symbols
and not arbitrary objects (unless they are not used by the standard
overloading machinery, or at least a different kind of dictionary is
used for their interfaces).

Example, how equality is defined:

prim_equal <- :(==)
# Save the builtin definition of (==) for using it below (the builtin
# version compares only symbols, integers and string).

equal_dict <- const dict_of_symbols
(==) <- method equal_dict

# A generic indexing operator is not defined yet at this place and
# operator (.) works only for terms now, so I'm using an ugly direct
# function call to set the entry in the dictionary (which is
# implemented as a function):
equal_dict! Set Term_t [x y]
    # [x y] starts a lambda abstraction.
    is y Term_t & prim_equal (symbol x) (symbol y) &
        len <- const (length x)
        (len == length y) &
            check i = (i >= len) | (((x.i) == (y.i)) & check (i+1))
            check 0

equal_dict! Set Integer_t: prim_equal
equal_dict! Set String_t: prim_equal

End of example. Further types may insert additional entries.

The overloading machinery is similar to Haskell classes. Not only
further types may insert additional entries, but existing types may
be put into new dictionaries of new overloaded operations. Thus an
interface of a type is extensible.

There is a problem I don't know how to solve: I want the language
to have a potential of efficient implementation. It works only to
some extent...

Static binding means that identifiers like length and (&) refer to
statically known functions. They are not looked up in a dictionary at
runtime. An optimizing compiler can see their definitions and inline
their calls. The fact that my prototype implementation looks them up
by names at runtime is irrelevant :-)

It's important that a compiler can be sure that
    x <- var 0
refers to the standard function called var which creates a variable, so
also uses of x (getting and setting its value) can be inlined as well.
It's also important to really pass by value what would be evaluated
anyway.

Note that evaluating x as an expression reads the current value of this
variable. Every identifier is bound to a function, and mutable variable
is implemented as a function (a constant too). The syntax of calling
a function bound to an identifier doesn't need parentheses: just the
name and parametres separated by spaces. The <- construct evaluates
the rhs which must return a function which is bound to the identifier.

One can't assign to length for example. This function is not a
variable, won't understand the assignment message, and certainly won't
ever change its internal state (it doesn't have any): it will always do
the same thing. That's why calls to length can in principle be inlined.

Unless the standard library defines a generic length which will be
used instead of the builtin one - and it will surely do! The problem
is with overloading. The dispatching code could be statically analysed
and inlined, but not the result of the dispatch.

There is in practice no way a compiler can infer that (==) defined
as above, applied to integers, really uses the above definition. At
any time somebody could replace the equal_dict.Integer_t entry with
something entirely different.

Even if dict_of_symbols disallowed overwriting existing values and
a compiler would be taught about it, it doesn't work for example in
the following case: equality on Tuple_t uses the generic definition
for Term_t, but someone later inserts an explicit definition for
Tuple_t. Or adds a supertype of tuples and an implementation of length
for them which is searched before Term_t. Or whatever.

I don't know how to solve it. It seems a silly problem, but the
prototype implementation is really slow. Even though I don't intend
to let this language have serious uses, I'm worried that I can't
design it well. Having a few mandatory dictionary lookups on using
(==) on integers is not a good option.

The intent of a code calling (==) on integers is to use the concrete
standard implementation! The intent is to not allow somebody define how
integers are compared, and the compiler should in theory take advantage
of that. I already captured the intent for non-overloaded functions.

It could be solved in an ad-hoc way by special-casing important
operations, but I want a general solution. And a solution which would
not complicate the core language.

The core and syntax are really simple. No reserved words at all and
only the following symbols have special meaning (besides literals
and comments):

    ;      sequencing, separation of declarations
    =      recursive binding
    <-     side-effecting binding
    :      reference, i.e. a special case of lambda abstraction
    [ ]    lambda abstraction
    ,      insert all values of the tuple as arguments
    !      get the function to which it evaluates
    ( )    grouping

Even the while loop is defined in the library. The syntax feels
a bit Pythonic, thanks to using layout:

    i <- var 0
    while (i < 10):
        print i ", "
        i :+ 1

There are two arguments of while here: a condition (which is evaluated
multiple times) and a lambda abstraction (which is evaluated once,
but the function it evaluates to is the body of the loop and is called
on each iteration).

Of course :+ is also just an operator, defined thus (after + is
defined to do the right thing):
    x! :+ y = x! := (x! + y)
The exclamation mark turns off the evaluation of the argument on entry,
such that the identifier x returns a function which was denoted by the
expression passed as the first argument, instead of its result. Passing
variables by reference is thus unified with delayed evaluation.

Parentheses are necessary here because there is no operator precedence
and operators associate in the opposite direction. You could save the
parentheses by puting the rhs indented in the lines which follow.

Even assignment is defined in the standard library:
    x! := y = x! Assign y
Finally the Assign symbol is born as a builtin because it's referred to
by another builtin, namely var, and var is a builtin because creation
of new mutable references can't be defined in terms of something
more primitive.

The core is so simple that I don't want to introduce a builtin concept
of polymorphic dispatching. The whole fun is bootstrapping something
powerful from small. But I still want it to be potentially efficient,
so the compiler can often infer what function to call. Help!

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From herzi at runbox.com  Fri Aug 17 16:32:26 2001
From: herzi at runbox.com (Sven Herzberg)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:32:26 +0200
Subject: Problems controlling another program
Message-ID: <9ljv28$6ne$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to create a front-end for a linux console application. My
problem is that the command line tool has to run the whole time while the
GUI is running. The GUI and the command line tool shall permanently
exchange data with each other. I tried with popen2 and I didn't succeed.
If you can help me, send me some info, please.

Thanks

--
sven


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 13:00:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:00:33 +0200
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
References: <3B80ED4F.F37FA70@arca.net> <9lr62m01p83@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B812A8C.F1A0228E@arca.net>
Message-ID: <9lrfqs02b9j@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Maurizio Manetti" <giannozzo at arca.net> wrote in message
news:3B812A8C.F1A0228E at arca.net...
    ...
> > > import win32con
> > > import win32ui
> > >
> > > win32ui.MessageBox("Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)
> > >
> > > When I run it from PythonWin it works as expected.
> > > If I save it on a script ".py" file and launch it (double click,
> > > associated with pythonw) I get the following error:
> >     ...
> > > I found this problem on two different Win machine (Win98 with Python
2.0
> > > and WinMe with Python 2.1.1)
> > >
> > > Does anyone know why? And how to solve the problem?
> >
> > Works fine for me on NT4 with Python 2.1.1.  I don't see any
> > obvious reason why it should fail so horribly, either.
>
> Yes, you are right, it's just a call to a windows API, but that's what
> happen to me.
> I also tried to reinstall pythonwin, but nothing changes.

Now confirmed -- I also get a horrible crash when running this
in Windows 98, at home.  Still no idea of what could possibly
cause it, but it's definitely a Win95/95/ME vs NT/2000 issue.


Alex





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Tue Aug  7 13:51:02 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:51:02 -0700
Subject: PyInline was Re: probs w/ building python extensions on free 
 Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9ko6720156j@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B702A86.7B6AF76@ActiveState.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> By far the easiest way to build Python extensions is with the
> distutils, so that's what I think an extension-writing tutorial
> should be based on.

As you may know, the Perl world has historically had an over-complex
solution known as "XS". What many Python-ers may not yet know is that a
new model is becoming quite popular. 

http://inline.perl.org/

Inline won the Best New Module Award at The Perl Conference.

I think it is worth studying to see how the ideas apply to Python. I
convinced one of the two main inline guys (the both worked at
ActiveState for a while) to look into an inline Python (as opposed to
Inline::Python) but he's been distracted for a while so I thought I
would throw the challenge out to the readers of comp.lang.python. Perl
has taken a lead in extension-building simplicity. Anyone out there want
to take it back?

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From chrishbarker at home.net  Tue Aug 14 19:08:24 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:08:24 -0700
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B79AF68.EE4937E7@home.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> > fh = open("file", "r")
> > while (not fh.eof):
> >    fh.readline()
> 
> There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> 
>     for line in fh.xreadlines():
>         process(line)

or, if processing the file as a list of lines doesn't work, the standard
idiom is:

fh = open("file", "r")
while 1:
    line = fh.readline()
    if not line: break
    # do stuff with line


I'm not really very fond of "while 1" constructs, but since the break is
right there next to it, it's not too bad, and I think a little better
than what I used to do:

fh = open("file", "r")
line = fh.readline()
while 1:
    # do stuff with line
    # there could be a LOT of code here

    line = fh.readline()



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mal at lemburg.com  Wed Aug  8 13:31:01 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:31:01 +0200
Subject: ANN: eGenix.com mx EXPERIMENTAL Package 0.4.0
Message-ID: <3B717755.B2B08D06@lemburg.com>

________________________________________________________________________

ANNOUNCING:

        eGenix.com mx EXPERIMENTAL Extension Package for Python
                            Version 0.4.0

     Experimental Python extensions providing important and useful
                    services for Python programmers.


________________________________________________________________________

WHAT IS IT ?:

The eGenix.com mx EXPERIMENTAL Extensions for Python are a collection
of alpha and beta quality software tools for Python which will be
integrated into the other mx Extension Packages after they have
matured to professional quality tools.

Python is an object-oriented Open Source programming language which
runs on all modern platforms (http://www.python.org/). By integrating
ease-of-use, clarity in coding, enterprise application connectivity
and rapid application design, Python establishes an ideal programming
platform for todays IT challenges.

________________________________________________________________________

WHAT'S NEW ?

This version includes a new package called *mxTidy*. See below
for details.

The mxNumber package was only tweaked a little to be more in sync
with what Guido thinks numeric types should output under str().

________________________________________________________________________

EGENIX.COM MX EXPERIMENTAL PACKAGE OVERVIEW:


mxNumber - Python Interface to GNU MP Number Types

     mxNumber provides direct access to the high performance numeric
     types available in the GNU Multi-Precision Lib (GMP).  This
     library is licensed under the LGPL and runs on practically all
     Unix platforms. eGenix.com has ported the GMP lib to Windows, to
     also provide our Windows users with the added benefit of being
     able to do arbitrary precision calculations.

     The package currently provide these numerical types:

     1. Integer(value)      -- arbitrary precision integers much like 
                               Python longs only faster
     2. Rational(nom,denom) -- rational numbers with Integers as
                               numerator and denominator
     3. Float(value[,prec]) -- floating point number with at least
                               prec bits precision
     4. FareyRational(value, maxden)
                            -- calculate the best rational represenation 
                               n/d of value such that d < maxden

mxTidy - Interface to HTML Tidy (HTML/XML cleanup tool)

     mxTidy provides a Python interface to a thread-safe, library
     version of the HTML Tidy. command line tool.

     HTML Tidy helps you to cleanup coding errors in HTML and XML
     files and produce well-formed HTML, XHTML or XML as output. This
     allows you to preprocess web-page for inclusion in XML
     repositories, prepare broken XML files for validation and also
     makes it possible to write converters from well-known word
     processing applications such as MS Word to other structured data
     representations by using XML as intermediate format.

________________________________________________________________________

WHERE CAN I GET IT ?

The download archives and instructions for installing the packages can
be found at:

     http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/

________________________________________________________________________

WHAT DOES IT COST ?

The EXPERIMENTAL packages uses different licenses in its subpackages.
Please refer to the subpackage documentation for details. Some of them
may be integrated into the BASE package, others will be integrated
into the COMMERCIAL package.

The package come with full source code

________________________________________________________________________

WHERE CAN I GET SUPPORT ?

There currently is no support for these packages, since they are
still in alpha or beta. Feedback is welcome, though, so don't
hesitate to write us about the quirks you find.

________________________________________________________________________

REFERENCE:

<P><A HREF="http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/">eGenix.com mx
EXPERIMENTAL Extension Package 0.4.0</A> - eGenix.com mx EXPERIMENTAL
Extension Package 0.4.0 with precompiled binaries for Windows and
Linux. (08-Aug-2001)

________________________________________________________________________


Enjoy,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH
______________________________________________________________________
Company & Consulting:                           http://www.egenix.com/
Python Software:                        http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From sophiec at scripps.edu  Thu Aug  2 13:56:52 2001
From: sophiec at scripps.edu (Sophie Coon)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:56:52 -0700
Subject: Distutils problem
References: <dZ5a7.6024$kg.339481@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B699464.B1DEFB5D@scripps.edu>

Hi,
I am trying to write a setup.py to create a source distribution for a
wrapped library. The trick is that I need to build an intermediate
library and the sdist command doesn't seem to like it.
Here is the setup.py that I wrote.
=========================================================================================
import os, sys, string
from distutils.sysconfig import get_python_inc
from distutils.core import setup, Extension

libgleSrcs = ['./src/ex_angle.c', './src/ex_raw.c',
              './src/intersect.c',
              './src/rotate.c', './src/round_cap.c',
              './src/texgen.c',
              './src/view.c', './src/ex_cut_round.c',
              './src/extrude.c',
              './src/qmesh.c', './src/rot_prince.c',
              './src/segment.c',
              './src/urotate.c']

# Describing the extension module, gle_wrap.c

setup( name = "gle",
       version = "3.0",
       description = "GLE Tubing and Extrusion Library",
       author = "Linas Vepstas",
       author_email = "linas at linas.org",
       url = "http://www.linas.org/gle/",
       packages = [''],
       libraries = [('libgle',
                     {'sources': libgleSrcs,
                      'include_dirs':['./src'],
                      'macros':[]},
                     ),
                    ],
       ext_modules = [Extension('glecmodule', ['gle_wrap.c'],
                                include_dirs = ['./src',
                                               
'/tsri/python/share/include/python2.0/Numeric/'],
                                library_dirs =
['./lib','mgl/apps/lib/i86Linux2/'],
                                libraries=['gle.3.0','GL','GLU'])
                      ]
       )
=========================================================================================================================
python2.0 setup.py sdist gives me the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "setup.py", line 36, in ?
    libraries=['gle.3.0','GL','GLU'])
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/core.py", line 138,
in setup    dist.run_commands()
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/dist.py", line 829,
in run_commands
    self.run_command(cmd)
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/dist.py", line 849,
in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/command/sdist.py",
line 143, in run
    self.get_file_list()
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/command/sdist.py",
line 242, in get_file_list
    self.add_defaults()
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/command/sdist.py",
line 319, in add_defaults
    self.filelist.extend(build_clib.get_source_files())
  File "/tsri/python/share//lib/python2.0/distutils/cmd.py", line 107,
in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, attr
AttributeError: get_source_files


I can very successfully run the following command:
python2.0 setup.py bdist
python2.0 setup.py build 
In the last case I have a working package that I can import from a
python interpreter.

That is why I think this error occurs because the library is not yet
build. 
In fact if I build the intermediate library and use the following
setup.py instead I can very successfully run sdist.
setup( name = "gle",
       version = "3.0",
       description = "GLE Tubing and Extrusion Library",
       author = "Linas Vepstas",
       author_email = "linas at linas.org",
       url = "http://www.linas.org/gle/",
       packages = [''],
       ext_modules = [Extension('gle', ['gle_wrap.c'],
                               library_dirs=['./lib',
/mgl/apps/lib/i86Linux2/'],
                               libraries=['gle.3.0','GL', 'GLU'],
                               include_dirs = ['./libgle/',
                                              
'/tsri/python/share/include/python2.0/',
                                              
'/tsri/python/share/include/python2.0/Numeric',
                                               ])]
       )

Did I make a mistake in the way I wrote the setup.py? If not is there a
way around this problem besides building this intermediate library? 
Any help will be very welcome at that point.
Thanks a lot.

Sophie
############################################################
Sophie COON	              The Scripps Research Institute
Research Programmer III       Molecular Graphics Laboratory
			      10550 North Torrey Pines Road
Phone: (858) 784-9556                    La Jolla, CA 92037 
Fax  : (858) 784-2860
############################################################


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug  2 16:46:58 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:46:58 -0700
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
In-Reply-To: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>; from carlf@panix.com on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 05:06:10PM +0000
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20010802134658.D2970@ActiveState.com>

On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 05:06:10PM +0000, Carl Fink wrote:
> I asked about this on the debian-user mailing list and got no answers
> at all, not a good sign, but:  has anyone installed Python 2.1 or
> later on a Potato system?  There are no .deb files that I can locate
> to do so.
> 
> I've installed quite a bit of software outside the Debian packaging
> system, but I'm leery of fiddling with Python because dpkg/apt *uses*
> Python, and if 2.1 breaks dpkg I'm screwed.  So I'm wondering if
> anyone has actual experience and pointers?


You can get a .deb package for ActivePython. This will install by default to
/usr/local/ActivePython-2.x (i.e. it will not overwrite the main system
Python that dpkg is currently using). You can then put
/usr/local/ActivePython-2.x/bin on your PATH before /usr/local/bin and you
will use that instead of the (guessing) Python 1.5.2 version sitting at
/usr/local/bin/python.

If you are scared of Python 2.x breaking dpkg you could make sure to not use
Python 2.x when you run as root (because you only run dpkg as root right).

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/

You can get older versions here if you like:
    ftp://ftp.activestate.com/ActivePython/linux/

Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 10:58:48 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:58:48 GMT
Subject: (beginner) question on threads...
Message-ID: <Xns910EAD0A59682PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

Looking into threads, I've been toying with BaseHTTPServer again, to see if 
I could make it respond to several requests at a time (like serving a page 
while downloading a file, etc.).

Off to a bad start, I made the following simple-minded change :

in class BaseHTTPRequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler) :

in def handle(self) :

the last line : method()  # generally self.do_GET()
becomes :       thread.start_new_thread(method, () )

This immediately breaks the module :-), as in :

Unhandled exception in thread:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "daft.py", line 308, in do_GET
    self.send_page(INDEX)
  File "daft.py", line 293, in send_page
    self.send_response('200')
  File "daft.py", line 163, in send_response
    self.wfile.write("%s %s %s\r\n" %
  File "c:\python21\lib\socket.py", line 192, in write
    self.flush()
  File "c:\python21\lib\socket.py", line 179, in flush
    self._sock.send(self._wbuf)
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'send'

Am I just misusing the thread library, or is the whole idea hopelessly 
naive (ie the vanilla HTTPServer is inherently not threadable) ? I just 
want to learn, certainly not rewrite Medusa/Zope & all the AsyncHTTPServers 
out there :-)

TIA,
fp
-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From anthony at interlink.com.au  Thu Aug 23 11:18:02 2001
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:18:02 +1000
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dave Swegen <dswegen@allstor-sw.co.uk> 
   of "Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:28:05 +0100." <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon> 
Message-ID: <200108231518.f7NFI2w02001@mbuna.arbhome.com.au>

>>> Dave Swegen wrote
> I imagine that these sort of problems might not only appear due to
> incorrect coding, but also things such as broken mailers, applying
> patches from people using different indent levels etc
> 
> So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?

I've been coding python for maybe 9 years now, and I've never ever had this
cause an error. Compared to the C 'single line if statement problem', this 
is joy.

Anthony

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.




From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug  9 02:28:19 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:28:19 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
In-Reply-To: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091020010.9369-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Mark Sass wrote:

>Hi all,
>    I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want to
>call on an object.  How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
>function call?  Here is an example
>
>funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
>x = len(funclist)
>y = 0
>while y < x:
>    value = testobj.funclist[y]
>    y = y +1
>
>This way I could grow the list of functions to be called without coding more
>like the way I am doing it now. I would like to avoid doing the following:
>
>value = testobj.func1()
>value = testobj.func2()
>value = testobj.func3()

Hmmm... First of all, you have methods, not functions.
Second, where from are you getting function's
definitions?

In Python you can have list of functions (methods) like this:


funclist = [func1, func2, func3]

# and iterate thru it this way:
for f in funclist:
  # use function f here in some way
  f(testobj)

Anyway, I do not follow why keeping separate and symbolic
list of function. Maybe you can have that list as a
methods of testobj? Or do you want latest-possible binding?
Python is dynamic enough to implement any variant.


>Any help would be great.
>
>Thanks,
>    Mark Sass

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Thursday, August 09, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "NEWS! Stolen painting found by tree" _/




From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 02:14:56 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:14:56 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9cojotgk3dmqr99cfbpeboaemgnudeqdc0@4ax.com>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:43:02 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<3b89db9b.565789932 at wa.news.verio.net>:

:I'll assume that when you say 'file locking', you mean the file as
:a whole, rather than a region of the file, as the parameters for _locking
:specify (I think an example of yours had parameters for the whole
:file length).

Yes, this is what I was going to do. I wasn't going to lock the file I
want to read to/write from itself, but a 'lockfile' and then, when I
obtain the lock on the lockfile, I would read/write to the datafile
(because underlying implementations of databases vary, and databases are
sometimes comprised of more than one file).

:Have you considered using os.rename() to implement your method #3 above?
:Barring a system crash, renaming should be atomic, and even if there
:is a crash after renaming, you should be able to detect orphan files
:if you put appropriate info in the new name.

Actually, I had thought of that. I had been discussing it with my
husband this afternoon. He didn't think it was a great idea, but he
thought it had possibilities. It makes me feel a bit better, to hear
someone else suggest it.

Actually, I think what happens with Windows98, is that there is only
exclusive lock. No shared locking (which is what one would want for
reading). So, I could change the name of the file when a write process
wants to acquire it. Otherwise, if the un-renamed file is there, it is
OK to read from it. Do you think this type of approach would work for
the reading part only? 

:I'll stick my neck out here with a pretty untested sketch:

Thanks. I will look this code over. I really appreciate the suggestions.

[code snipped]

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Aug  5 18:10:10 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:10:10 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <9Hgb7.73303$EP6.17305404@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Isjb7.15644$5j7.952180@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195 at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:58:13 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Since Guido has already acknowledged your freedom and invited you to
> >exercise it if you wish, and disclaimed any intention to 'do
> >[anything] about it' (other than in how he develops Python) what is
> >your purpose in continuing to falsely label him 'dictator' as in
> >'denier of freedom'?  Enough I think.
>
> I did not label him dictator, and I am simply using the language that
> is widespread on this list. As far as I am aware, DFL (and
> particularly BDFL) is not a term that offends Guido. I just explicitly
> pointed out that he cannot be a dictator in the sense of a denier of
> freedom - that was the whole point of the 'weak dictatorship'
> statement - so I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to twist my words.
>
> I'm simply saying - fine, you win. I am not saying I'm wrong, but I am
> leaving. I am not going to hang around here whining - the history of
> the issue is that the whiners have been the pro-PEP238 camp as most
> anti-PEP238 people never had a reason to whine until a couple of weeks
> ago. I've stated my arguments and, by the simple means of putting the
> whole rationale in one place, my opinion apparently went from being
> easily-countered-with-weak-arguments to
> too-much-trouble-to-counter-so-lets-ignore-it. There is no argument
> that can counter being ignored, so there is no point me staying.
>
> I have an interest in how Python eases this issue, as I still have old
> code to deal with, but beyond that, this has gone too far already. And
> beyond this post now, I have no further patience for defending my
> point of view or contributing in any way to this topic.
>
Well, that's a relief :-)

Nevertheless, I'm sorry you've apparently been the subject of abuse via the
Internet. Nothing excuses that.

Anyway, have a nice life, and don't lose touch with Python altogether!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de  Sun Aug 19 20:24:46 2001
From: Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 00:24:46 GMT
Subject: dumb newbie list question
References: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9o0kpv.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>

Hallo Dan!

On 19 Aug 2001 18:45:21 -0400, Dan Girellini <drg at longhands.org> wrote:

>  Maybe this is a naive/stupid question, but is there anyway to grow a list to an
>  arbitrary size?  Eg.:

>>>> l = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> l[5] = "x"

>  won't work (obviously).  Is there an easy way to do this without building a
>  second list of the right size and concatenating them?  

Why will you do this?

l=l+(10-len(l))*['x']

works fine and should be faster then many l.append('x')

>  I'm trying to drop my perl habits when using python, really!

You should choose the best solution - may it come from perl or any other
language. 




Bernd


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Aug 20 01:54:10 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:54:10 -0700
Subject: Problems controlling another program
References: <9ljv28$6ne$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <to19dvg0ci6pea@news.supernews.com>

"Sven Herzberg" <herzi at runbox.com> wrote in message
news:9ljv28$6ne$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to create a front-end for a linux console application. My
> problem is that the command line tool has to run the whole time while the
> GUI is running. The GUI and the command line tool shall permanently
> exchange data with each other. I tried with popen2 and I didn't succeed.
> If you can help me, send me some info, please.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> sven

The standard answer for this one is: use Expect. Of course, you will need
to learn TCL/TK for that package, but it works. There's also an Expect
module in Perl, but I don't know of one in Python.

The reason you need something like Expect is that you need a pty rather than
pipes in the general case, because most Unix command line programs really
do expect that they are running with a real user if they are doing any kind
of
conversation. They get totally baffled between the C standard library on the
interactions. The standard library is smart enough to not buffer ttys but it
usually isn't smart enough to not buffer pipes.

Look at the tty module in the stand library. It's very minimal, but you
might
be able to get it to work for you, since it claims to run on Linux.

John




From rholmsprint7-NOSPAM at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  2 22:29:23 2001
From: rholmsprint7-NOSPAM at earthlink.net (Rich Holm)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:29:23 GMT
Subject: [development doc updates]
References: <mailman.996686768.24372.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.15d3c885c8c84347989681@news.earthlink.net>

Any chance of ever getting texinfo docs again?

Cheers,
Rich


In article <mailman.996686768.24372.python-list at python.org>, 
fdrake at acm.org says...
> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
> 
>     http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/
> 
> Incremental updates, including some useful improvements in the docs for
> the re module.
> 
> 
> 


From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Mon Aug 13 02:20:02 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 23:20:02 -0700
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997650565.15532.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mtu1zcqy5p.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Roman Suzi writes:

> Maybe

>         if type(a[x]) != type("string"): print x+repr(a[x])

> will solve your problem?

Or try: print x+str(a[x])

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 03:57:45 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:57:45 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> This gets suggested frequently, and while there are more
> thorough answers than this, in a nutshell the answer seems
> to be that the dynamic nature of Python makes full compilation
> an intractable problem.

I don't see why this is so.  Python semantics are very similar to
Lisp, and Lisp is often compiled.  Numerical Lisp code can be as fast
as numerical Fortran or C code.  Python could be the same way, as far
as I can tell.  Of course the Python compiler would often have to make
inferences (or be advised by the programmer) about object types, but
the current bytecode compiler already does some of that (e.g. it
generates FASTLOAD/FASTSTORE bytecodes to avoid dictionary lookups
when it can).

> An answer from a different point of view is "why bother?"  Python is
> already "fast enough" for many applications -- one might even say
> "for most applications for which it is used", 

Well, yes, applications for which Python is too slow don't get written
in Python.  But if Python were faster, it would be useable for more
applications, always a good thing from a Python advocacy perspective,
I would have thought.

> and there is little interest in improving its speed compared to
> improvements in other areas.

There seems to be considerable interest in Python's speed in this
newsgroup, I've been happy to find :)

> Python programmers tend to adopt a philosophy of making code work
> rather than making code fast.  Given a choice of doing one or the
> other, any reasonable person would pick the former.

That is a platitude.  To paraphrase Jon Bentley: whatever computer
system you're currently using to surf the web has hundreds of known,
but minor, bugs.  If a fairy godmother appeared before each user and
gave them one wish, and they had to choose between eliminating the
bugs or making their surfing experience 100 times faster, do you
really think every reasonable person would decline the speedup?  SPEED
MATTERS.  From a user's point of view it sometimes matters even more
than correctness.

> Since so many software projects are failures even before they manage
> to release their products, if they ever do, Python contributes
> greatly to improving that dismal record even with its currents
> speed.  So, "why bother"?  There are many things to fix in the
> software world before we optimize...

A couple days ago someone asked how to multiply a numeric vector
by a scalar in Python and I timed a couple of the suggested answers
last night.  The timings are in a separate post but basically, for
10,000 loops over a 100 element list, on my P3-750,

   a = map (lambda x: 4.0 * x, b)

took about 1.5 seconds, 

   a = [4.0 * x for x in b]  # list comprehension syntax probably wrong

took around 3 seconds, 

   a = 4.0 * b     # NumPy scalar * array multiplication

took 0.31 seconds, and just for fun I coded a simple loop in C and it
took 0.6 seconds to run 1 million times.  So C was 300 times faster
than a map call in Python and 50 times faster than Numerical Python.
This ratio is large enough to make Python impractical for a number of
things C is practical for.  I'd been hoping to write a telephony
application including signal processing in Python, but it doesn't look
feasible.  It's probably doable with C extensions for the number
crunching, but I don't have a C compiler for the target platform and
was hoping to avoid having to acquire one.

In the long run I hope there will be Python compilers and high
performance applications being written in Python, like there currently
are for Scheme or Lisp.

"The working scientist is trying to solve tomorrow's problem on
yesterday's computer.  The computer scientist, we find, often seems
to have it the other way around."  
  --Teukolsky et al, Numerical Recipes (misquote)


From dalke at acm.org  Fri Aug 10 03:35:00 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:35:00 +0100
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <9l0rk8$c6a$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Joal Heagney wrote:
>And adding onto that an automatic copy of the instance's __dict__ -->

>... def __copy__(self):
>... class Temp: pass
>... newbie = Temp()
>... newbie.__class__ = self.__class__
>... newbie.__dict__ = copy.deepcopy(self.__dict__)
>... print "very little work"
>... return newbie

Or

  def __copy__(self):
      return loads(dumps(self))

(but this assumes the created string is small enough to be
negligible.)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From patton at fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de  Tue Aug 28 11:35:45 2001
From: patton at fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de (Brian Patton)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:35:45 +0200
Subject: file.read Problem
Message-ID: <3B8BBA51.5C04026E@fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de>

Hi!

I'm having a problem with file.read.

I'm writing a filter to get data from a binary formatted file so that I
can import it into other software. I'm running Python 2.1 with the win
extensions downloaded from ActiveState. Win98 system. Oh, and I've
opened the file "rb"! ;)

My problem is that when I try to read in a given number of bytes, the
length of the string returned is rarely the length that is expect.
Furthermore, if I try to get the data by repeatedly grabbing smaller
chunks then is seems to step almost randomly through the file.

Some code:
print "Size I want to read: "+ str(sizes)+" Curr File Position: "+
str(fFile.tell())
                fFile.seek(8000)
                while fFile.tell()<12000:
                    test =fFile.read(6)
#struct.unpack(types,fFile.read(sizes))
                    print "Length of string read in: " + str(len(test))
+ " Current File Pos:" + str(fFile.tell())

Returns sensible stuff for a while, then:
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos:8228
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos:8234
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos:12099

Repeating the above with but with fFile.seek(8234) (the last good value)
gives:
Length of string read in: 3 Current File Pos:8746
Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos:12336

Similar strangeness occurs when I try to read over 617 bytes at a time
(yup, I've experimented on the last bit)

Any ideas? (And thanks in advance)

Brian





From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Aug 21 04:37:34 2001
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:37:34 +0200
Subject: strange error with python and mailman
In-Reply-To: <3B822F0C.8E0E5F24@waag.org>
References: <3B822F0C.8E0E5F24@waag.org>
Message-ID: <01082110373400.00328@phoenix>

On Tuesday 21 August 2001 11:51, you wrote:

Hmm... The following looks strange:

> Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
> "/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", line 157, in section_divider
> Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      return "--" + str
> Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473): TypeError :  illegal argument type
> for built-in operation

Its adding str (normally a builtin function) to "--"?! Maybe str is normally 
assigned a value before that and shadows the builtin, and that isn't 
happening now.

What the TypeError is complaining about is that you add two types that are 
incompatible, just as adding a function to a string should be!

Hmm... Can you send the file multifile.py, so that I can check that one? 
Please only via private mail, as many people on the list don't feel like 
downloading 30KB messages which don't interest them... :)

-- 
Yours sincerely,

	Heiko Wundram



From p.caven at ieee.org  Wed Aug 15 22:37:46 2001
From: p.caven at ieee.org (Peter Caven)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 02:37:46 GMT
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org> <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com> <9ldakm01ioq@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <_lGe7.43578$O8.6622552@news1.busy1.on.home.com>

Thanks Alex,

I sometimes forget how completely dynamic Python actually is!

-- Peter

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9ldakm01ioq at enews3.newsguy.com...
> "Peter Caven" <p.caven at ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125 at news1.busy1.on.home.com...
>     ...
> >         l = []
> >         f = l.append
> >         m = math.sin
> >         for i in range(10):
> >             f(m(i))
>     ...
> > Unless I'm missing something fundamental, if the compiler can be made
> smart
> > enough to know where to put TRACK_OBJECT and UNTRACK_OBJECT then why
can't
> > it do the code transformation as above?
>
> It's very hard for the compiler to prove that this transformation does
> not alter the semantics -- specifically that neither f nor m alter what
> l.append and math.sin should resolve to!
>
> Consider the following silly code:
>
> import math
> realsin = math.sin
> def blah(f):
>     print 'blah!',f
>     math.sin = realsin
> math.sin = blah
>
> for i in range(10):
>     print math.sin(i)
>
> C:\Code>python aa.py
> blah! 0
> None
> 0.841470984808
> 0.909297426826
> 0.14112000806
> -0.756802495308
> -0.958924274663
> -0.279415498199
> 0.656986598719
> 0.989358246623
> 0.412118485242
>
> Now, if the compiler hoisted math.sin out of the loop, it would
> alter the semantics to printing "blah!" then None every time.
>
> Now, here I've placed all the code inline so it may look like
> the compiler COULD deduce that this math.sin is peculiar --
> but that's a rather unusual case.
>
> So, if Python's dynamic semantics are to stay untouched, any
> caching or hoisting of method resolution MUST track potential
> modifications.  Of course, the antecedent of this hypothetical
> sentence is pretty iffy -- but, one COULD construct a case.
>
> Say that instead of math.sin you're calling mymod.bigfun,
> and this function needs to do very different work the very
> first time it's called, e.g. just-in-time loading of some big
> data table to use for interpolation; rather than weighing down
> every call with an if to test if the table is already loaded, the
> function could perhaps rebind its name to a slimmer function
> after it's done loading the interpolation table.
>
> Python's current highly-dynamic nature has its pluses as
> well as its minuses.  SOME of the dynamic aspects are going
> away in future releases, but it's still uncertain exactly which
> ones, and SOME of them will (one may hope) remain.  Thus,
> the compiler needs to do more work for optimization, when
> compared to a compiler for a less-dynamic language.  The
> idea of tracking-opcodes seems to me a brilliant compromise
> between expending a LOT of work on the compiler, to enable
> it to infer what changes and when, and just giving up on
> optimization in the vast majority of cases, where Python is
> just too dynamic to allow optimization without tracking.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 10:45:06 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 07:45:06 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998473353.18926.python-list@python.org> <9m01um01dcc@enews3.newsguy.com> <QO2h7.4623$XY4.463031@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <9m32i2027v0@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xofp6zvgt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> And programmers used to reference-count semantics (finalization
> doesn't occur given reference loops, but without them it occurs
> instantly as soon as an object is found to be unreferenced) have
> proven to be very reluctant to abandon those semantics for m&s
> semantics (whether _implemented_ by m&s, copying, generational
> mixed-strategies, etc, isn't the point:-).

I think the whole idea of finalization is somewhat in conflict with
the traditional concept of GC, which is that GC simulates having infinite
memory by reclaiming objects that are no longer reachable.  Under that
model, nothing ever really gets finalized.  

Finalization is useful, to be sure.  I'm not enough of a language
connoiseur to know how it's been done in other systems except C++
and Java, which are both monstrosities (well, C++ anyway).  I may
dig out my CADR manual to see how it was done in the good old days :).


From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 24 06:40:36 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:40:36 +1000
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
References: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper> <mailman.998588555.5777.python-list@python.org> <3B85E18B.8BB0B485@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B862F24.C4E50214@student.gu.edu.au>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >
> >     rb> I dont get what's going wrong here and my girlfriend realy wants to
> >     rb> play solitaire on linux (and isn't to impressed with kpatience)
> >
> > Sounds like you have other problems if your girlfriend wants to play
> > solitaire. ;-)
> 
> What problem?  Now he has more time to program in Python! :-)
> 
> -P
Not if she bans him from the computer. *sighs for his
not-long-ago-childhood when people used actual PHYSICAL cards to play
solitare*
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Thu Aug 30 15:18:08 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:18:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
In-Reply-To: <3b8de94b.528890@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301307280.30302-100000@bms>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gerson Kurz wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:21:56 -0700, "Formalin"
> <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote:
>
> >Is there any editor support python?
> I personally like SciTE best. Its Open Source. Its available for both
> Win32 and Linux (GNOME based). It supports many programming languages.
> Its available here:

Hmmm...

~$ dpkg -s scite
Package: scite
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: editors
Installed-Size: 833
Maintainer: Aubin Paul <aubin at debian.org>
Version: 1.38-3
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.3-7), libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0), libgtk1.2 (>=
1.2.10-1), libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2, xlibs (>> 4.0.3)
Description: Lightweight GTK-based Programming Editor
 GTK-based Programming with with syntax highlighting support for
 many languages. Also supports folding sections, exporting
 highlighted text into colored HTML and RTF.

...scite does not depend on any Gnome libs.

Too bad GTK is butt ugly (runs for cover :)


- Bruce




From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Mon Aug 27 09:42:27 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:42:27 GMT
Subject: How big is that canvas in the window?
References: <9m6fks$2blu$1@newshost.nmt.edu> <3B86C522.169F2868@earthlink.net> <5537fd92.0108260412.21e458d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b8a4d88.3349828@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 26 Aug 2001 05:12:52 -0700, koen at behindthesofa.dhs.org (Koen
Bossers) wrote:

>Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3B86C522.169F2868 at earthlink.net>...
>> Bob Greschke wrote:
>> > 
>> > Here's the idea:
>> > 
>> > www.passcal.nmt.edu/~bob/unlinked/images/trdpy.jpg
>> > 
>> > It's in Python/Tkinter.  See the "Plot" button?  I want to draw a
>> > graph in the black area.  How do I find out the dimensions of the
>> > black canvas area???  I can make a guess when I first draw everything
>> > by setting the size of everything, but I don't want to do that.  I
>> > want the user to be able to resize the window and then redraw the
>> > graph.  I got to exactly this same point in GTK+ and had to give up.
>> > Am I going to have to write this program in Java?? :-)
>> > 
>> > (The program is actually being written for/on a UNIX box.  I just had
>> > to use a Windows machine to get the screen dump.)
>> > 
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>
>interactive session:
>
>>>> from Tkinter import *
>>>> root = Tk()
>>>> canv = Canvas(root)
>>>> canv.pack()
>>>> canv.cget('height')
>'267'
>>>> canv.cget('width')
>'381'
>
>
>found at:
>http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm.
>Section "Basic Widget Methods"
>
>Please bookmark this site: a lifesaver when programming with Tkinter.
>
>
>Cheers, Koen

Bob,

See also winfo_width, winfo_height. In some circumstances, I have
found these to be more reliable than cget('width"), and cget("height")


http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x9170-window-related-information.htm

also you might want to try using PMW 

http://pmw.sourceforge.net/

It has nice megawidgets including a scrolled canval



Bob Roy


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 10:39:23 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:39:23 -0400
Subject: comparing results of fetchall() with a known value
References: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <60Oi7.55629$54.3070172@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Jeff" <jhardcastle at solarc.com> wrote in message
news:e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1 at posting.google.com...
> Hi - I'm new to Python, and am having trouble reading the results of a
> database call using fetchall().  Here's my situation:
>
Welcome to Python. It's great for database work.

> I have a database table containing a list of names, and I have a
> string variable containing a name.  I need logic that will determine
> if my string exists in the database table.  So I have a simple sql
> like "select name from employees", and I have a string empname =
> 'Jones', and I need to verify that 'Jones' is in the employees list
> (assume duplicate names are not an issue in this case).
>
One way to do this (assuming C is a cursor open to your database of choice)
would be something like:

C.execute("SELECT count(*) FROM employess WHERE name=?", (empname, ))
result = c.fetchall()
if result[0] == (1, ):
    ... there's one employee...

You should certainly use SQL's power to do what it does best: query the
database!

> Here's what I've done: I created an odbc connect to the database,
> opened a cursor, executed the sql, then set a variable: namelist =
> cursor.fetchall().  What's got me stumped is that "namelist" is a list
> of tuples with sample data like: [('smith',), ('johnson',),
> ('jackson',), ('jones',)]
>
> If this were a normal tuple or list, I could easily use:
>
> "if empname in namelist:
>      ....execute code...."
>
> But with the list of tuples, I don't know how to easily do this. My
> hunch is that there must be some way to convert that list of tuples
> into a list of single values, since I only need the first element of
> the tuple like 'jackson' from ('jackson',).  Once I had the list of
> single values, my if statement above would work.
>
If you have such a list of tuples, an easy way to check for the presence oif
a single name is to construct the tuple you are looking for and test for its
presence in the result:

if (empname, ) in namelist:
    ... zie's there ...

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From altis at semi-retired.com  Tue Aug 21 02:30:10 2001
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:30:10 -0700
Subject: simple graphics lib
References: <b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8dng7.1394$3l.460208@news.uswest.net>

I wrote a turtle graphics library for PythonCard that might be of interest.
There are many examples of drawing shapes, using multiple turtles at once,
plotting points, etc. Since each turtle is just another Python object, you
should be able to apply them easily to your project. There are some screen
shots at:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples2.html
The image at the bottom of the page shows off doing some drawing directly
from the shell.

PythonCard is located at:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

It requires Python 2.1 and wxPython 2.3.x.

One benefit of using something like the turtle library and PythonCard is
that you can draw interactively from the shell. Note that if you're doing a
simulation with a large number of objects, you will probably need to use
something more "raw" but it depends on your platform, graphics card, number
of simultaneous objects you need to move around in realtime, etc. In that
case, you can combine raw wxPython drawing in your PythonCard program.

Another possibility is using Jython, so that you're coding in Python, but
use the Java libraries for drawing. This is more complicated, but there are
lots of example Java programs to "steal" from. Whether this would be a good
solution, sort of depends on whether you already know the Java libraries.

ka
"Bignose3" <k98jh01 at kzoo.edu> wrote in message
news:b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065 at posting.google.com...
> I am a student learning python on my own, coming from a C++ backgroud.
>  I am working on a simple project, a simulation of fish, as a way to
> gain experience using python.  I am looking for a simple graphics lib
> that will allow me to display objects- like circles or squares to
> represent the objects I am coding.  Is anyone aware of a lib that will
> allow me to do this.  When learning C++ I used the CMU Graphics Lib
> which worked great.  Let me know if anyone has any ideas.
>
> Thank You
> Joe




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 06:55:56 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:55:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
In-Reply-To: <20010828142445.A19476@isetroc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280653100.27782-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Dave Harrison wrote:

> Im writing a script that goes through and reads zipped log.  So far so cool.
>
> Now the current install on the server is 1.5.2 which is nice, but I was hoping 2.2.1 would be faster at reading the logs by virtue of xreadlines and general tweaking over time.
>
> But to my surprise and mild horror 1.5.2 was clocking horrendously faster than 2.2.1 ....
>
> Whats the deal ? It may be something basic Im overlooking but I cant see why 2.2.1 should not at least be the same speed as 1.5.2.
>
> My basic timing code is as follows :
>
>
> FOR 1.5.2 :
> -------------------------------------------
> import gzip, time
> list = []
> file = gzip.open('20010615.gz')
> start = time.clock()
> for line in file.readlines():
>         list.append(line)
> stop = time.clock()
> total = stop - start
> print
> print '1.5.2 Running Time : '+str(total)
> print
> -------------------------------------------
>
>
> FOR 2.2.1 :
> -------------------------------------------
> import gzip, time, xreadlines
> list = []
> file = gzip.open('20010615.gz')
> start = time.clock()
> for line in xreadlines.xreadlines(file):
>         list.append(line)
> stop = time.clock()
> total = stop-start
> print
> print 'Total running time 2.2.1a : '+str(total)
> print
> -------------------------------------------
>
> The time come out at :
> 1.5.2 -> 3 seconds or so
> 2.2.1 -> 13 seconds or so
>
> Help ?
>
> Dave

It's quite simple. file.readlines() generates a true list in one go, whereas
xreadlines.xreadlines() creates a generator that has to be called each time
you want a line. Generators will never be faster than data.

If you test range() versus xrange() for very large values you'll find the same
thing, even in the same version of Python.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Thu Aug 23 15:01:09 2001
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:01:09 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Vpch7.65519$MC1.21346220@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xwv3w78y2.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead

1) Reference counting is efficient, simple and robust
2) Circular lists are relatively unfrequent, this low frequency makes it
bearable to take special care with them.

> of Lisp-style garbage collection?  As Python gets used for more large
> application development, it gets troublesome to make the programmer
> worry about whether the data has cycles.  Also, using a compacting GC

Reference cycles are first a design issue. Object models without circularity
are usually better models, and designs are usually improved after
circularity was removed. A little like multiple inheritance...
Situations where reference cycles are actually needed (and beneficial) are
very rare.

> helps localize memory references, speeding up the program by improving
> cache performance.  As CPU's get faster and memory doesn't, the cycle
> cost of a cache miss continues to increase.  So maybe the GC
> implementation should be revisited at some point.

Whereas reference counting scales up very well as the number of objects
increases, automated garbage collection just does not scale up.
In other words: GC will collapse before you can get a couple million objects
in memory, where reference counting has no performance impact.
(Hint: Java...)

The amazing stability, efficiency, and scalability of Python actually owes
much to the reference counting schema...

Finally, as far as the C API is concerned, garbage collextion actually make
C interfacing sensibly more complicated than reference counting. In effect,
as soon as the C structures point on language objects, a means for the GC
must be provided to traverse the structure, and that really becomes a pain
to program properly.
Reference counting is a lot simpler in this regard!

Frederic Giacometti










From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug  5 22:33:37 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 02:33:37 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <9Hgb7.73303$EP6.17305404@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5mnb7.74817$EP6.17707012@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195 at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:58:13 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
> wrote:
> >... what is your purpose in continuing to falsely label him
'dictator' as in
> >'denier of freedom'?  Enough I think.
>
> I did not label him dictator ... I just explicitly
> pointed out that he cannot be a dictator in the sense of a denier of
> freedom - that was the whole point of the 'weak dictatorship'
> statement - so I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to twist my
words.

OK, replace 'dictator with 'would-be dictator' and I don't think I
twisted much at all.  'Dictator' has two meanings: one who speaks, or
one who also enforces his words (and thereby denies freedom).  If you
did not mean 'weak speakership', which I very much doubt, then it
seems you must mean 'weak enforcement'.  The clear inplication *to me*
of both your original 'weak dictatorship' statement and your
restatement above is that there is a would-be or intended dictatorship
that is failing.  Otrherwise the statements seem pointless.  Given
that the Python license is about the freeest there is, I think that
implication false.

Terry J. Reedy





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 10:36:23 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:36:23 +0200
Subject: Is 0 > None??
References: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com> <qAMj7.156063$EP6.43986636@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <9mo7d705q1@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote in message
news:qAMj7.156063$EP6.43986636 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
>
> "Manus Hand" <manushand at home.com> wrote in message
> news:3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED at home.com...
> > It was in 1.5.1, but it wasn't in 1.5.2 or 2.0 or even (I think)
> 2.1.
>
> Behavior of mixed-typed (non-numeric) comparisons is explicitly
> *undefined*.  Only guarantee is consistency within release (or maybe
> just within running program).  Reason for giving otherwise nonsensical
> answer is so list.sort does not bomb and so heterogenous lists can be
> sorted to 'canonical' form before being tuple-ized for use as dict
> key.

This used to make a lot of sense, but now it all breaks down
if any item in the heterogeneous list is a complex number, so
I doubt it makes much sense any more -- you *can't* "put a
heterogenous list in canonical form" by sorting it unless you're
ABSOLUTELY sure that, whatever else the list may contain, it
*DOESN'T* contain even one complex number.

Not by sorting the list itself, that is -- you need to supply
a comparison-method (that will jump through complicated hoops
if it ever meets a complex number), or just-as-carefully use
the decorate-sort-undecorate idiom in a way that *ENSURES*
a complex number is NEVER, EVER compared (with cmp, <, >, &c)
with anything.  Comparing a blue camel to a rocking horse is
fine -- comparing it to a complex number isn't.

I think we could count this among Python's relatively-new
warts, actually:-).


Alex





From piercew at hushmail.com  Mon Aug 20 08:00:18 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 05:00:18 -0700
Subject: Problems controlling another program
References: <9ljv28$6ne$02$1@news.t-online.com> <to19dvg0ci6pea@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108200400.5cb942b2@posting.google.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<to19dvg0ci6pea at news.supernews.com>...
> "Sven Herzberg" <herzi at runbox.com> wrote in message
> news:9ljv28$6ne$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to create a front-end for a linux console application. My
> > problem is that the command line tool has to run the whole time while the
> > GUI is running. The GUI and the command line tool shall permanently
> > exchange data with each other. I tried with popen2 and I didn't succeed.
> > If you can help me, send me some info, please.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > sven
> 
> The standard answer for this one is: use Expect. Of course, you will need
> to learn TCL/TK for that package, but it works. There's also an Expect
> module in Perl, but I don't know of one in Python.
> 
> The reason you need something like Expect is that you need a pty rather than
> pipes in the general case, because most Unix command line programs really
> do expect that they are running with a real user if they are doing any kind
> of
> conversation. They get totally baffled between the C standard library on the
> interactions. The standard library is smart enough to not buffer ttys but it
> usually isn't smart enough to not buffer pipes.
> 
> Look at the tty module in the stand library. It's very minimal, but you
> might
> be able to get it to work for you, since it claims to run on Linux.
> 
> John

I haven't used this module, but here's the PyExpect homepage:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/expectpy/

Wayne


From fig at localhost.localdomain  Fri Aug 17 12:24:00 2001
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:24:00 -0000
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nqhmi.2p1.fig@localhost.localdomain>

On 17 Aug 2001 05:52:30 -0700, Henrik Ekelund <henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com> wrote:
>We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
>C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
>working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
>work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
>lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?

Depends on the 10,000 lines.  What other libraries might it use?
Python, with its batteries included lets you write things in fewer
lines than C++.  10,000 lines of Python might be 40,000 or more lines
in C++.  The pythonic approach might not be the same as the C++
approach.

On the plus side, you have a working prototype of exactly what you
want, so design of your objects and how they will interract is already
taken care of.  Since that can take up a large amount of a project's
time, you might be able to cut the development time in half.  

Probably the only one who can guess at how long it will take is the
person who is going to do the work.  Maybe you should write out the
requirements, indicate you have a working prototype in Python, and
have some people bid on it.

Stephen


From GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com  Mon Aug  6 04:52:31 2001
From: GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com (GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:22:31 +0530 
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastruc
	ture
Message-ID: <E1B786DCFA6ED511A0390008C7289E4733BD06@ICICIBACK3>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Annis [mailto:annis at biostat.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:56 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management
> Infrastructure
> 
> 
> 
>         I've been a Unix system adminstrator for about 7 years now,
> longer if you count my student admin jobs.  With a few, brief
> exceptions, I have always worked places with small computing budgets.
> We can't afford sexy system management packages which can sometimes
> cost in the US$100,000s.  I mean things like Tivoli, CA Unicenter,
> Bull's OpenMaster, etc.
> 

I think, during CA Unicenter 2.2 ver, CA released the "framework" FREE.
You can search arround and may find someone with the 2 cd set. The 
framework is quite good. With 2.4, it's still there.

>         About once a year I run into some situation where I *want*
> something like one of these tools.  Like many academic sites, we
> started small with a handful of Unix machines and a few dozon users.
> Now we have 100s of users and about 70 Unix machines all doing
> different jobs.  Now I regularly have to rewrite or at least try to
> fix the tools that worked with 15 machines but now fall down: a mass
> of shell scripts, C and perl glommed together with duct tape, caffeine
> and cheap, grad-student labor.
> 
>         It may all just make me crazy.  Our old user management system
> (perl and some C) had a unique and beautiful problem.  It generated
> /etc/passwd and /etc/group from a single data file.  An extra space at
> the end of a line could cause some confusion in the parsing, and what
> you sometimes got was a recreated /etc/passwd with the names and UIDs
> slightly out of alignment.  It was a wonder to behold, a nightmare to
> fix.  That system is gone now.
> 
>         As the years go by I keep reimplementing these things (if
> we're lucky, we buy something) and I can't help but wonder if there
> isn't some Better Way.  I keep writing these tools, but they can't
> chat with each other.
> 
>         Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
> system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
> etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
> *infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."  I've been working
> on a system monitoring tool for several years now, so I have some
> experience in writing distributed systems that, so I already have some
> ideas.  My thoughts right now lean toward a central communications
> daemon/dispatcher attached to a database with various other daemons
> devoted to specfic tasks:
> 
>     * keep track of machine data (my current worry)
>     * user data (including fiscal data if necessary)
>     * system monitoring, event and problem notification
>     * for the adventurous, things like printer and job control, etc...
>       (this should be a infrastructure, and it should be easy
>       to plug in whatever you can think up)
> 
> Of course there are free various tools that do these sorts of things
> out there, but they don't exactly play well together, if at all.  I
> have ideas on how communication should work, and though I have avoided
> the XML kool-aid up to now, I'm willing to concede XML-RPC might be
> useful here.
> 
>         I'd rather not do this alone. So, if there are other Unix
> admins, or NT admins, for that matter, who want to see their favorite
> language used to develop something like this and are willing to do
> some actual work, please contact me.  If there's no interest, I'll
> just crawl back into my office and hush up. :)
> 

If decide to write, check RMON and especially "WBEM". And I guess there must
be some existing effort that does something similar using above standards.

Incedently, I thaught I want to have some test project to learn python , 
and was thinking of something like NOCOL, a OO Framework, rewritten in
python
so that I just have to convert system oriented C code to OO python code :).

> -- 
> William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
> annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
> Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

/prasad


. 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010806/c7cd5c8c/attachment.html>

From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 06:59:51 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:59:51 +0100
Subject: re bad leadership
References: <0+yM4IAgmKX7EwIQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9juspa$8p0$1@panix2.panix.com> <9kb6i5129al@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <SXeVyjAnKTa7Ew3q@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <9kb6i5129al at enews1.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
>news:9juspa$8p0$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>> In article <0+yM4IAgmKX7EwIQ at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
>> Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >MDFL
>>
>> What does this stand for?
>
>"Mrolling on De Floor, Laughing"...?
>
>
>Alex
if only others were like you Alex we wouldn't get into a tizzy over
quite minor disagreements.
-- 
Robin Becker


From rumjuggler at cryptarchy.org  Sat Aug 11 17:47:25 2001
From: rumjuggler at cryptarchy.org (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:47:25 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk><PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom><3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:37:52 +0100, Stefan Schwarzer <s.schwarzer at ndh.net>
wrote:

>Hi Alex
>
>Alex Martelli schrieb:
>> "Christopher A. Craig" <com-nospam at ccraig.org> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.997122491.16083.python-list at python.org...
>>     ...
>> > I had always thought the reason for not having i++ was because, in
>> > general, each line of Python code can have at most one lvalue.
>> 
>> I'm not sure what you mean, since 'lvalue' is not a Python
>> concept, but...:
>> 
>>     a=b,c,d=e='wow'
>
>Nice, but seems like "obfuscated Python" to me ;-)
>
>>>> a,b,c,d,e
>('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')
>
>I haven't yet figured out how it works. Could you please add parantheses to
>the above expression or clarify otherwise how it works?

It's the same as 
>>> a = (b,c,d) = e = 'wow'

-- 
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
No man can run so fast that he can escape his own past's projectile vomit.


From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Aug  3 14:10:04 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 18:10:04 GMT
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org> <9kdl2t$8ho$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn9mlq7r.14d.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:49:47 -0700, Danyel Fisher <danyelf at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>In my Java class, lo those many years ago, we learned that we want
>spaces in that open style: foo( bar )
>http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~croft/research/java/guide/#format

Yes, but whoever wrote this page is obviously joking or insane:

'''
No non-space character will begin before the 6th column on a line; that is,
indent the entire file 5 spaces.
No non-whitespace character will begin beyond the 75th column on a line. 
'''

The code example:

'''
     public class  User implements Serializable
     //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
     //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
     {

     private String  userName;
     private String  password;
     private Date    creationDate;
'''

>http://www.javaranch.com/style.jsp#space
>    (which is nice enough to point out that this is a hybrid of practicality
>of the way that many text editors implement double-click-for-copy, and
>tradition)

Most of the editors I've used will select to the nearest matching paren or
quote when you double-click inside a paren or quote.  The rest don't consider
punctuation to be part of a word.

They also, with an apparently straight face, mandate "never use loop control
and return".  And then say to not use 'do ... while' because some programmers
might not know what it is.


From sa at bayt.net  Fri Aug 17 08:42:43 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 05:42:43 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108170442.7a6c7c60@posting.google.com>

web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green) wrote in message news:<270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac at posting.google.com>...
> I've been looking at Python IDEs over the last week, and this is what
> I've found. On the theory that other people might be interested, here
> are the results...
> 
> 1. IDLE - comes with the standard Python distribution. USD0.00
> 
> 2. IDLEfork <http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/> "just like IDLE, only
> crunchy". An experimental fork of IDLE. USD0.00
> 
> 3. PythonWin - comes with ActiveState Python. Based on IDLE. Has a
> couple of nice, extra features, but basically the same animal. USD0.00
> 
> 4. Komodo - ActiveState's cross-language IDE. Looks like it would be
> really cool if you were working on a Perl/Python/XSLT/PHP system.
> Otherwise, PythonWin probably does what you want. USD295 a throw.
> 
> 5. PythonWorks Pro - from SecretLabs. Very cool looking IDE. Has a
> layout editor for Tk. USD395 a seat. Might take a few days to get the
> hang of.
> <http://www.secretlabs.com/products/works/index.htm>
> 
> 6. BlackAdder - from TheKompany. Has all of the features of IDLE +
> support for Ruby + GUI editor for Qt.
> <http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/> USD250 a go.
> 
> 7. VisualPython - from ActiveState. A Python plug-in for Visual
> Studio.NET Beta 2. Still in Beta itself. USD0.00 at the moment.

8. Edward K. Ream's Leo project is wonderful for large complex
projects. "Leo is an outlining editor that supports Literate
Programming (LP). Leo is fully scriptable using Python and saves its
files in XML format" <http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html>

9. The Scintilla development effort led by Neil Hodgson certainly
rocks the house as it has led to creation of great derivative IDEs.
"Scintilla is a free source code editing component... It comes with
complete source code and may be used in any free project or commercial
product." <http://www.scintilla.org>. I use SciTE, "a SCIntilla based
Text Editor" for most quick and dirty scripts...

10. The boa-constructor project (which uses the scintilla component).
<http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/> Still strangely alpha but
definitely full of great features. "Boa Constructor is a cross
platform RAD GUI Building IDE. It offers visual frame creation and
manipulation, an object inspector, many views on the source like
inheritance hierarchies, object methods and properties, html generated
from documentation strings, a debugger and integrated help.It is
written in Python and uses the wxPython toolkit."

11. A relatively new proj called pycrust which looks extremely
promising. "PyCrust is an interactive Python Shell written in Python
using wxPython and the Scintilla wrapper class. PyCrust can be run
standalone or integrated into other development environments."
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust/>


regards,

Shakeeb


From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Thu Aug  2 12:12:26 2001
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:12:26 GMT
Subject: ANN: More XML support for Python etc
Message-ID: <996768756.767825@rexx.com>

I've implemented wrappers for the parser in libxml2 and simple
wrappers for the top level functionality in libxslt.  You can learn
more about libxml and libxslt at:

    http://xmlsoft.org

And you can find my Python wrappers at:

   *** Caution -- This is alpha-ware.  Use at your own risk. ***

    SAX interface:
        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/libxml_saxlib.html
        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/libxml_saxlib-1.0a.tar.gz

    DOM interface:
        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/libxml_domlib.html
        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/libxml_domlib-1.0a.tar.gz

    XSL-T:
        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/libxsltmod.html
        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/libxsltmod-1.0a.tar.gz

You can also find a link to the above from http://xmlsoft.org. 
Look under "Contributions".

Thanks so much to all those who work made this possible.  Thanks to
the people who did libxml and libxslt (these modules are 99.9%
their work and 0.1% mine.) Thanks for Distutils, which made it so
easy to package these modules.  And, thanks to the core Python team
for a great and extensible language.

My wrappers are at a pretty low level (i.e. close to the libxml C
code).  That made it a bit easier for me.  But it might also help
with speed and memory use considerations for some uses.

But, it also turns out to make things easy for a Python user of the
wrappers.  With libxml_saxlib, just create an instance a class that
has methods like startDocument, endDocument, startElement,
endElement, characters, etc, then call parse_file(instance,
fileName) or parse_string(instance, string).  With libxml_domlib,
call parse_file or parse_string to parse the document, then call
getRootElement, getFirstChild, getNextSibling, etc to walk the
tree.  With libxslt, just call a function or two.

An additional educational part of this work -- In providing access
to the DOM tree, I needed to implement several Python extension
datatypes (as part of the Python extension module libxml_domlib). 
I had never done that before, believing that the Python C
structures involved were too difficult for me to deal with.  With
some help, it turned out to be not as difficult as I thought.  Here
are two suggestions if you need to implement a Python extension
type yourself:

  - Start by copying Objects/xxobject.c in the Python source code
    distribution.  The structure and organization in this file will
    put you far ahead of where you would be if you start from
    scratch and it will save many errors, too.

  - Or, use the my extension datatype generator.  You can find it
    at:

        http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/dtGenerator.py

    For restricted purposes, this will save a lot of copy, paste,
    and rename work.

You may be asking, Why did you implement wrappers for XML
capabilities for Python, when we already have PyXML/4Suite?  PyXML
is super.  And there is no way that these wrappers for
libxml/libxslt can be considered anywhere near as mature and rich
as PyXML.  (It's presumptuous for me to suggest that they are
comparable.) However, let me give a couple of reasons for doing and
offering this:

  - Because it's there.  libxml2 and libxslt are available. 

  - Because implementing the Python extension modules and extension
    datatypes was good training for me.

  - Because I believe that having a bit more breadth of coverage of
    something as important as XML is good for Python, even if it is
    not used very much.  XML capablilities available from multiple
    sources gives Python more credibility.

  - Because it's easy to use.  Using libxsltmod from Python is
    (almost) as easy as one function call.  It won't give enough
    control for some situations.  But where that control is not
    needed, calling from Python is very easy.

  - Because there may be special situations where this
    implementation would be useful. For example, installing it on a
    new machine, may be as easy as copying a few shared libraries. 
    For some purposes, that may be a benefit.

  - Because I'm grateful for all that the Python community has
    given me and I'd like to try to give a little back.

If you have suggestions or find problems please let me know.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 29 14:03:05 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:03:05 +0200
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
References: <mailman.998906841.10432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2461303.bQ9GjlxrEI@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at home.com> schrub:

> So you don't load up all of the second file, just one line at a time. 
> If you need to check for 1,2,3 == 2,3,1 then just check the various
> combinations by doing gets for the other possible combinations.

Or normalize the tupels by sorting the three points.

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug  6 20:23:05 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 17:23:05 -0700
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
References: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B6F34E9.D17E0F97@home.net>

Ben C wrote:

> Sorry to bother the group with such a trivial Q but for some reason I
> can not find an answer to this in the docs ... how does one 'clear'
> the Python environment .... so all loaded modules and variables are
> freed?

I'm pretty sure such a thing doesn't exist: though I'd like to be proved
wrong!

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug 22 04:43:03 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:43:03 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:35:44 GMT."
             <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <m15ZTbL-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

I just stumbled over one of the changes in 2.2 when I got the message:

TypeError: unbound method option_value() must be called with instance
    as first argument 

The reason for this TypeError is that my code tried to call a method
of the wrong class -- probably an oversight when I changed the
superclass and didn't update all references to the old superclass. As
that method ultimately comes from the same mixin it worked fine until
now.

The behavior of Python 2.2 is fine -- it told me about a potential
error which had been lurking for a long time. The problem is that
the error message is misleading -- the first argument is an instance. 

It would be more informative if the message looked something like:

TypeError: unbound method option_value() must be called with an
    instance of class X as first argument (got instance of Y instead)

BTW, that's the first problem I had with trying my code under 2.2.
Well done, Guido.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 06:31:23 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:31:23 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be> <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net> <9miud701gsp@enews1.newsguy.com> <2163005.EU6C4ouqhe@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <9ml4lr01qbs@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:2163005.EU6C4ouqhe at lunix.schabi.de...
    ...
> > VB (and Python) stop where there's no runtime environment to
> > support them (C++, like C, is designed to be able to do without
    ...
> > Say you'd like a little program of yours to run in the browser
> > of anybody who looks at your site.  VB will stop at any browser
    ...
> If you use Jython and AWT as windowing toolkit (maybe swing is also
> possible in current browsers), than you can ship a carefully designed
> python application as .jar, even as an applet, if you want to. There's

...and if a suitable runtime environment is provided.  Most
current browsers don't provide one by default -- the JVM's they
pack (if any) are old and cranky and don't run Jython applets.

So, again, the "runtime environment for support" issue dominates
deployment considerations: in this case, you'd need to make
sure (how...?) that every visitor to your site is using a
reasonably recent, bug-free JVM (presumably as a plugin).

Of course, although in theory C++ or C could produce code that
is able to avoid the need for (software) runtime environments,
that code would need suitable *hardware* support (e.g., an 8088
will not run 32-bit code needing an 80386 or better -- a Mac
won't support it either, etc, etc) *AND* you'd have to convince
the visitor that your compiled binary is safe to download and
run (good luck trying:-).

So, the need for suitable supporting runtime-environments (if
one counts hardware issues, trust issues, and so on, as part of
those) is really universal... no language will let you make
programs that run *EVERYWHERE* -- the needed support may be
reasonably widely deployed, but it won't be universal.


Alex





From digitig at cix.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 17:08:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:08 +0100 (BST)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20010806220810.7503C@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list at python.org>, 
com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig) wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> writes:
> 
> > I'm not sure if anyone has explained the philosophical basis of "why 
> > no ++". It's rooted in Tim Peters' maxim:
> > 
> >    There should be on--and preferably only one--obvious way to do 
> > things.
> > 
> 
> Hmm.  I think I disagree.  If we had i++ (only the postfix version),
> then the obvious way to do:
> 
>    i+=1
>    func(i)
> 
> would become
> 
>    func(i++)

In C/C++ that would be equivalent to 

>    func(i)
>    i+=1

of course, so it wouldn't be obvious to all :-) 


From cb921 at voice.co.za  Fri Aug 10 04:40:03 2001
From: cb921 at voice.co.za (Campbell)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:40:03 +0200
Subject: Windows DLL import error (bug?)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0108101029020.12748-100000@cb921.local>

Hello,

I am using Windows NT 4.0 with Python 2.1.

I have a DLL called _starla.dll, and the words 'import _starla' at the
top of a script in the same directory.  This of course works just fine.
This morning, after I rebuilt the dll, I suddenly found an ImportError,
and python could not find the dll.

Viewing the directory through an smbfs mount on a Linux machine, I
notice that the file (according to ls) is called _STARLA.DLL.

renaming the file to _starla.dll fixed my problem, though it took a very
long time to figure out.

If I rename the file to _STARLA.DLL, the error returns.

I thought windows was case insensitive?

cheers

campbell



From garry at sage.att.com  Wed Aug 29 09:42:27 2001
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:42:27 GMT
Subject: Python for XML processing (newbie)
References: <mailman.999065084.24950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8CF143.787831D0@sage.att.com>

Karthik Gurumurthy wrote:

> i have written a few xml parsing stuff using python's xml library.
> I c'd get things done easily.
> I w'd greatly appreciate it if someone c'd point out the difference between
> using say a
> java parser like xerces and the one we have in the python library.
> any advantages?? etc?

the advantage to using the python library is that you don't
have to use java.


-- 
Garry Hodgson                   sometimes we ride on your horses
Senior Hacker                   sometimes we walk alone
Software Innovation Services    sometimes the songs that we hear
AT&T Labs                       are just songs of our own
garry at sage.att.com


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 16:09:53 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:09:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221358220.31387-100000@math.cudenver.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221607370.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, cary miller wrote:

> How about this?
>
> import os
> mod = eval('os')
> mod.__file__

That works, although we don't need the eval() in there, I think.

---
#! /usr/bin/python

import os

print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)
---

There we go. I think that's the simplest possible implementation. Does
everyone agree?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Sat Aug 11 02:40:05 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:40:05 GMT
Subject: Newbee question here. 
References: <20010811011037.21887.00002980@ng-dd1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n9lct.iff.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Patio87 <patio87 at aol.com> dijo:
> When I downloaded Medusa, and I had finished winziping it I got like 50 of
> those snake icons and they all did the same thing. They all just went into
> Python for like a half second and went out. I have no Idea on how to use Medusa
> If someone could help me I would much appreciate it Thanks, Pat

They're probably displaying information that you can't see because the
DOS window closes too quickly.

Try running the scripts from within a pre-existing DOS window (via
'MS-DOS Prompt' in Start Menu). Type

C:\> python path\to\scriptname.py

...and see what the output is.

HTH
-- 
We're dumber than squirrels. We hear voices and do
what they command. I have broccoli in my socks.
    -- Dilbert's boss


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug 23 17:00:15 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 21:00:15 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <9m34eb029s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <3b85511b.268189646@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oarmt.c0f.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:30:44 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> pisze:

>     lhs = rhs
> Is it cast in concrete *for always and forever* that the
> old binding of the lhs will *always* be discarded in favor of a new
> binding to the rhs without regard to the previous binding?

I think yes. The old binding doesn't need to exist at all.

In order to change this the local namespace would have to be controlled
by something other than a dictionary. (Now it's not really implemented
using a dictionary, except special cases, but it behaves like a
dictionary, except that all changes must be done using variable
binding syntax instead of setitem.)  Currently it must be a dictionary.

Or perhaps there could be another variant of 'global' declaration
which delegates bindings of a particular variable from the local
namespace to something else. Currently 'global' is about the only
thing which changes the meaning of the plain name binding, and it
only switches the namespace, keeping similar rules.

I don't believe that the standard local namespace would ever behave
differently for name rebinding for implicitly declared variables.

> IOW, one could conceive of a check for an attribute of the old
> binding's object which if present would mean that the old object
> gets to handle the reference to the new rhs and leave the old
> binding alone.

IMHO it would be confusing to have an extremely rare case where the
= operator means something different. I would not use this operator
for this case. It always meant rebinding of a name. The old binding
is irrelevant - the object doesn't need to exist at all.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From sill at optonline.net  Thu Aug  9 10:55:21 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:55:21 GMT
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n58r7.2tk.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:32:09 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> After some time working with Python I noticed that
> I use "-s and '-s according to the following rule:
> 
> I use "" quotes when I specify value MANUALLY. That is, in
> most cases.
> On the other hand, I use '' where quotes are generated
> automatically. This is consistent with repr(), which
> gives ''.
> 
> The same rules differenciate """ and '''.
> 
> Exception is made when I use '' to put single " inside, like in:
> '"'
> and also sometimes I use ' ' to specify literal constants which belong to
> some definite set, required by some function, like 'exec', 'eval',
> 'single' to compile().
> 
> And ever more rarely I still use ' ' to specify single character, when I
> want to emphasize compatibility with C.
> 
> I wonder if there are idiomatic differences between quotes, but
> who knows? (apart from cases mentioned in the Style Guide)
> 
> 
> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

I used to use '-s almost everywhere, but once I looked at them in the console..
they look ugly! Ever since, I use "-s except for single chars or to escape
"-s.

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Aug 11 16:27:19 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:27:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cpae16bvc4.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108111459320.6561-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > I call the feature 'rarely used', but others may use it less
> > rarely.

For example, me.

Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?

> Let's just say that use of this feature is at your own risk.  It was
> an experiment.  I *could* restore it partially (see below) but I'd
> rather not, given that better alternatives are available.

Are there any features that we can use any longer that are not 'at our own
risk'?  Division will be changed, __class__ assignment is going away,
type() means something different, even the rules of scope...

Also, as far as I know, better alternatives do not exist; for example,
"promise" objects from a database which are latently initialized when they
are accessed.  One module that I use *all the time*;
twisted.python.rebuild.rebuild, is based entirely upon this "trick".  One
of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.

Smalltalk's Object>>become: is highly useful for similiar reasons; is
there a new way to emulate this without __class__ assignment?

> I'm sure I'd be able to come up with some kind of check that works. It
> would probably be very similar to the check I already use to determine
> whether two base classes are compatible -- the check that stops you
> from doing "class C(list, dictionary)".  But I repeat: I'd rather not.

Is there a discussion somewhere of why you'd rather not?  This is
*essential* functionality for me, especially since it sounds like it won't
be able to be completely replicated through some other mechanism.  (If you
implement "reference.become(other)", for example, I won't mind nearly so
much <0.5 wink>)

> That depends on how much of a slowdown it is. :)

I don't know about others who use this feature, but the way I use it I
could afford to wait 0.5 seconds for each __class__ assignment and not be
too upset about it.  Losing this ability entirely, however, would remove a
significant feature from Twisted when used with a later python version.  
I implore you not to remove it.

maybe-we-ought-to-stop-pretending-that-this-new-language-with-
	different-syntax,-idioms,-and-semantics-for-everything-
	is-really-still-python-ly-y'rs,

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From china at foo.com  Fri Aug  3 02:16:21 2001
From: china at foo.com (Albert Chin-A-Young)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:16:21 -0000
Subject: Python threads with suncc (Forte 6.1) compiler
References: <3B694134.D7A28779@eth.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <tmkgdltcs2jp8f@corp.supernews.com>

Pataki G?bor <gabor.pataki at eth.ericsson.se> wrote:
> I would like to get some help because I am in trouble with threads. I
> work on a Solaris 8.0 (64 bit) system. Python is compiled with Sun CC
> (Forte 6.1) compiler with threading support. A small program 
> telnetting to a computer often dumps core it works fine with gcc.

Works fine for me on a Solaris 8/SPARC machine running a 64-bit
kernel. I tried Python 2.0.1 and 2.1.1 both compiled with Sun Forte
6.1.

$ ./test.py
ThreadID 0 started
ThreadID 1 started
ThreadID 2 started
ThreadID 3 started
ThreadID 2 finished
ThreadID 3 finished
ThreadID 1 finished
ThreadID 0 finished

> Thanks,
> Gabor Pataki

> import threading
> import telnetlib

> def TelnetToIpw01():
>    
>        hostname = "my_hostname"
>        username = "user_name"
>        password = "password"
>        
>        tn = telnetlib.Telnet(hostname)
>        tn.read_until("login: ")
>        tn.write(username + '\n')
>        tn.read_until("Password: ")
>        tn.write(password + '\n')

> class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>        
>        def run(self):
>                print "ThreadID", self.cnt, "started"
>                TelnetToIpw01()
>                print "ThreadID", self.cnt, "finished"

> for i in range(0,4):
>        m = MyThread()
>        m.cnt = i
>        m.start()

-- 
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  2 12:41:44 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:41:44 -0500
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <qnkr8uuwqdj.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org>
        <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
        <cf0a7.58667$EP6.13873011@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
        <qnkr8uuwqdj.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <15209.33480.981125.563497@beluga.mojam.com>

    David> Or perhaps better, a compile-time error that 'parse' has an
    David> implicit 'return None' at the end. Of course, adding that would
    David> mean that this:

    David> def three_plus_1_problem(n):
    David>     while 1:
    David>        if n == 1: 
    David>           return 1
    David>        if x % 2 == 0:
    David>           n = n / 2
    David>        else:
    David>           n = 3*n + 1

    David> would also be an error; you'd have to throw an extraneous return
    David> at the end. Personally, I could live with that for the extra
    David> sanity checking.

And you thought the division change would break a lot of code!  There's
nothing wrong with execution falling off the end of the function.  Python
was designed that way.  It's when there are explicit returns and the
implicit return is reachable that you need to warn about a potential
problem.

A fairly small amount of analysis can detect that the implicit return is
never reached (I did such a thing for a peephole optimizer).  In that case,
all I did was toss out any unreachable code block.  It would be sufficient
to detect that the last return is reachable and emit a warning if there was
another return executed in the body of the function.  This would be okay:

    def foo(a):
        if a == 0:
            return 1
        elif a == 1:
            return 0
        else:
            return a*5

because that final implicit return is unreachable.  This would emit a
warning though:

    def foo(a):
        if a == 0:
            return 1
        elif a == 1:
            return 0

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From puzz at kikiriki.krumpir.hr  Mon Aug 13 03:11:10 2001
From: puzz at kikiriki.krumpir.hr (Tomo Krajina)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:11:10 +0200
Subject: installation tkinter help
References: <9l5q01$mc0$1@news.worldonline.be>
Message-ID: <slrn9nevce.ab.puzz@kikiriki.krumpir.hr>

ph wuidart (ph.wuidart at wol.be) je napisao/napisala:
>I am new to python
>I install python 2.1.1 to Linux Suse 7.0 (ok) and I have problem to install
>tkinter
>can you help me !
>Thank you

 What's the problem? Did you edit the Modules/Setup script? If no -- go
 there, find the line 
     # The _tkinter module.
 ...and the follow the comments. You must have tcl/tk version 8.0 or
 higher. On Suse 6.2 i had a little problem consisting in the fact that
 the version 8.0 was named tk8.0.h and the same for tcl8.0.h. If so,
 just copy "tk.8.0.h" to "tk.h"

-- 
puzz... :wq!


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug  3 14:49:57 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 18:49:57 GMT
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com> <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com> <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com> <u8zh4u0b6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <lyH97.7737$9i1.681152@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <6e990e29.0108010328.169affa5@posting.google.com> <mailman.996679503.16815.python-list@python.org> <6e990e29.0108012108.1447277b@posting.google.com> <uitg6yqxf.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9mlsik.3tn.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

02 Aug 2001 19:37:16 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> pisze:

> Of course, the negative consequence is the inability for such an
> application to take normal (non-optional) arguments that happen to
> start with an option character, or the option parsing has to provide a
> way to quote such an occurrence.

The standard for this already exists in the GNU world: "--" means
that all following arguments are non-options.

Trying to disambiguate this by disallowing options after non-options
wouldn't work anyway if the first non-option starts with "-".

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From parker at gol.com  Thu Aug 30 18:35:29 2001
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:35:29 GMT
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
References: <9mk7ur$hbv$1@mail.cn99.com>
 <MPG.15f8696954df68f4989686@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <m7UA3GAG$rj7Ewb0@gol.com>

In article <MPG.15f8696954df68f4989686 at news.easynews.net>, Marcus Stojek
<stojek at part-gmbh.de> writes
>In article <9mk7ur$hbv$1 at mail.cn99.com>, formalin14 at email.com.cn says...
>> How to make UEdit support python?
>
>Add this to your wordfile
>
>/L10"Python" Line Comment = #  Escape Char = \ File Extensions = PY PYC
>/Indent Strings = ":"
>/Function String = "%[ ,^t]++def[ ]+^([a-zA-Z0-9_]+[ ,^t]++([a-zA-Z0-
>9_,="' ]++)^):"
>/Delimiters = []{}()<>="'.,:+  
>/C1"Reserved Words"
>and assert
>break
>class continue
>def del
>elif else except exec
>finally for from
>global
>if import in is
>lambda
>map
>not 
>None
>or  
>pass print
>raise range return
>try
>while
>/C2"Built-in Functions"
>abs apply
>callable chr cmp coerce compile complex
>delattr dir divmod
>eval execfile
>filter float
>getattr globals group
>hasattr hash hex
>id input int intern isinstance issubclass
>joinfields
>len list local long
>max min match
>oct open ord
>pow
>raw_input reduce reload repr round
>search setattr slice str splitfields
>tuple type
>vars
>xrange
>__import__ 
>/C3"__Methods__"
>__abs__ __add__ __and__
>__call__ __cmp__ __coerce__ 
>__del__ __delattr__ __delitem__ __delslice__ __div__ __divmod__
>__float__
>__getattr__ __getitem__ __getslice__
>__hash__ __hex__
>__invert__ __int__ __init__
>__len__ __long__ __lshift__
>__mod__ __mul__
>__neg__ __nonzero__
>__oct__ __or__
>__pos__ __pow__
>__radd__ __rdiv__ __rdivmod__ __rmod__ __rpow__ __rlshift__ __rrshift__ 
>__rshift__ __rsub__ __rmul__ __repr__
>__rand__ __rxor__ __ror__
>__setattr__ __setitem__ __setslice__ __str__ __sub__
>__xor__
>/C4"__Attributes__"
>__bases__
>__class__
>__dict__
>__methods__ __members__
>__name__
>__version__
>/C5"Exceptions"
>ArithmeticError AssertionError AttributeError
>EOFError Exception
>FloatingPointError
>IOError ImportError IndexError
>KeyError KeyboardInterrupt
>LookupError
>MemoryError
>NameError
>OverflowError
>RuntimeError
>StandardError SyntaxError SystemError SystemExit
>TypeError
>ValueError
>ZeroDivisionError
>/C6"Common Libs"
>AST
>BaseHTTPServer Bastion
>cmd commands compileall copy 
>CGIHTTPServer Complex
>dbhash dircmp dis dospath dumbdbm
>emacs
>find fmt fnmatch ftplib
>getopt glob gopherlib grep
>htmllib httplib
>ihooks imghdr 
>linecache lockfile 
>macpath macurl2path mailbox mailcap
>mimetools mimify mutex math 
>Mimewriter
>newdir ni nntplib ntpath nturl2path
>os ospath
>pdb pickle pipes poly popen2 posixfile posixpath profile pstats pyclbr 
>Para
>quopri 
>Queue
>rand random regex regsub rfc822 
>sched sgmllib shelve site sndhdr string sys snmp 
>SimpleHTTPServer StringIO SocketServer 
>tb tempfile toaiff token tokenize traceback tty types tzparse 
>Tkinter
>urllib urlparse util uu 
>UserDict UserList
>wave whatsound whichdb whrandom
>xdrlib
>zmod
>/C7"Others"
>array
>fnmatch
>struct self


I wanted to see class names in the function list window (for situations
where I have several classes with similar methods), so I added the
following to my wordfile.

/Function String 2 = "%[ ,^t]++class++[ ]+[a-zA-Z0-9_]+[ ,%t]++:"

Regards
-- 
Ian Parker


From fred at arakane.com  Sun Aug 19 23:13:10 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 03:13:10 GMT
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com> <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <9lp2ek$uou$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <oaWf7.56553$MC1.19193428@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <9lppoc$8n3$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <af%f7.56949$MC1.19369355@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:9lppoc$8n3$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> Frederic Giacometti wrote:
> >String exceptions refer to the exception value used when raising
> >the exception.
>
> Yes.
>
> >But even then, string exceptions must be associated to an exception
class,
> >to which the above rule applies...
>
> Sorry?  I don't understand.  What's the exception class in the following?

I was referring to expressions like
   raise ValueError, "message"
which, roughly, correspond, in C to
   PyErr_String( PyExc_ValueError, "message")
(presently heavily used).

>
> >>> try:
> ...   raise "test2"
> ... except "test1":
> ...   print "Test1"
> ... except "test2":
> ...   print "Test2"
> ... except "test3":
> ...   print "Test3"
> ...
> Test2
> >>>
>
> (NB: this is all old-style Python exceptions.  Use class based
> exceptions for new code.)

Yes, it's for backward compatibility. Why not... Python is 'land of the
free' :))

You'll also note:

>>> try:
...   raise 1
... except 2:
...   print '22'
... except 1:
...   print '2111'
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in ?
TypeError: exceptions must be strings, classes, or instances
>>>

All freedom is limited ;))

FG





From fse at npt.no  Fri Aug 10 06:26:12 2001
From: fse at npt.no (Fredrik Seehusen)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 03:26:12 -0700
Subject: Setting file creation date
Message-ID: <e77b4645.0108100226.4cfaf671@posting.google.com>

Hello,

How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?

This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(


Best regards,
Fredrik Seehusen


From smnordby at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 19:56:54 2001
From: smnordby at yahoo.com (SteveN)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:56:54 -0700
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3B6C8BC6.B8763C2E@yahoo.com>

Michael Briel wrote:
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> I'm generally interested in Python - can anybode point me to either a book
> or a page that teaches you from the beginning how to use this language? I
> generally know how to program computers, but I haven't done it in ages, so
> it better be "for Dummies"... ;o)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --
> Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
> <<If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing is to keep
> the students from just trying to yodel right off. You see, we build to
> that.

Alan Gauld's tutorial is great for beginners:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

-SteveN-


From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 18:57:43 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 15:57:43 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com> <cp3d6ap71x.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108301457.706645ef@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<cp3d6ap71x.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>...
> Indeed, you can't subclass from multiple built-in types.  But 
> you can subclass from multiple user-defined classes that derive 
> from the same built-in type. ..
>
> The complete rule that explains what combinations are cool is 
> a bit complex, but a simplified version is easy enough to 
> remember: you can multiply inherit from user-defined new-style 
> classes as long as they all derive from the same built-in type, 
> or from object.

OK, I think I'm grokking it. In future Python, every derived
type will descend from some ur-type, either one of the 
built-in types such as "list" or "dictionary," or "object,"
which is the ur-type for classes. Multiple inheritance is
allowed only within the ur-type, i.e., when all base types
have the same ur-type.

Two things occur to me. (1) The language is awkward. I want
a word for the union of Python types and classes. Above, I
use "data type," but that brings the obvious ambiguity. The
unification PEP might be an opportune time for some 
rationalization of the language. (2) If I have grokked the
future data model correctly, it seems to me that "Object" 
should be made a built-in type that follows all the same
rules as the other built-in types, distinguished primarily
as being the default base type when no other is listed. In 
particular, I should be able to create instances without 
first sub-classing:

    spam = Object()       # Create new instance
    spam.eggs = "Yes"

That would be neat.

Still .. I'm puzzled as to how subtyping affects mutability
and identity. If I subtype int, is the result immutable? 
What does that mean if I can assign attribute values? I 
haven't thought about this much, so I apologize if my 
comments are headed in the wrong direction.

Russell


From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 17:01:44 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:01:44 GMT
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
References: <mailman.999108615.24410.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9oqm66.m56.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <mailman.999108615.24410.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>> The only problem I see is that the case where self.r==other.r and self.i >
>> other.i isn't handled.  That wouldn't cause the problem you've observed, but
>> I'd do something like:
>>
>>   def __comp__(self, other):
>>     if self.r < other.r:
>>        return -1
>>     elif self.r > other.r:
>>        return 1
>>     else:
>>        if self.i < other.i:
>>           return -1
>>        elif self.i > other.i:
>>           return 1
>>        else:
>>           return 0
> 
> Mmm, no. You see, what if you have values like (5+1j) and (2+58j)? are you
> sure you want to believe that (5+1j) is larger?

That's the requirement he specified.  I was fixing the code to
meet the requirement.  [It turns out the actual problem was the
method name, right?]

If you want to argue about the requirements, that's entirely
different.

> It will seem that way if you use the comparison function above.

Yup. That's what he said he wanted.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I brought my BOWLING
                                  at               BALL -- and some DRUGS!!
                               visi.com            


From kruge at gmx.de  Mon Aug  6 11:58:37 2001
From: kruge at gmx.de (Michael Briel)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:58:37 +0200
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com> <003d01c11d35$e0456140$6501a8c0@pacbell.net> <020801c11d3c$517d6460$33c39e3e@michaelb> <mailman.996976207.21171.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kmt2l$9md$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Ken Seehof" <kseehof at neuralintegrator.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.996976207.21171.python-list at python.org...

> > > Browse the www.python.org site for a few hours.
> > > Here's some intros:
> > > http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> > Thanks a lot - that should keep me busy for a while... :o)
> You're welcome.  When you have finished following all of the links, come
> back for your next assignment. :-)

Your wish is my command.com!

;o)


--
Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
<<The people in the village were real poor, so none of the children had any
toys. But this one little boy had gotten an old enema bag and filled it with
rocks, and he would go around and whap the other children across the face
with it. Man, I think my heart almost broke. Later the boy came up and
offered to give me the toy. This was too much! I reached out my hand, but
then he ran away. I chased him down and took the enema bag. He cried a
little, but that's the way of these people. >>





From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 12:32:07 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:32:07 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 11:42:15AM -0400
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com>
Message-ID: <20010814123207.D27040@starmedia.net>

On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 11:42:15AM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> [Drew Csillag]
> > > > I don't know if this was intended, but it appears that the metaclass
> > > > instantiation doesn't work with Python 2.2a1.  Are the old metaclass
> > > > things no longer supported in 2.2 or is it just temporarily broken?
> 
> [Guido]
> > > Can you be more specific?  What old metaclass are you referring to?
> > > It's probably broken because I changed the Don Beaudry hook invocation
> > > to favor the new metaclass mechanism that is central to the new types
> > > in 2.2.
> 
> [Drew]
> > Take any of the code in Demo/metaclasses in 2.2a1.  You get tracebacks
> > of the variety:
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "Eiffel.py", line 113, in ?
> >     _test()
> >   File "Eiffel.py", line 101, in _test
> >     class C(Eiffel):
> > TypeError: cannot create 'instance' instances
> > drew:~/build/Python-2.2a1/Demo/metaclasses>../../python Enum.py 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "Enum.py", line 169, in ?
> >     _test()
> >   File "Enum.py", line 128, in _test
> >     class Color(Enum):
> > TypeError: cannot create 'instance' instances
> > drew:~/build/Python-2.2a1/Demo/metaclasses>
> > 
> > I guess the real question is: "how does one go about writing metaclasses
> > in Python code in 2.2?"
> 
> I see.  You will be able to subclass from 'type' (or types.TypeType if
> you prefer :-).  Right now this doesn't work right (neiter in 2.2a1
> nor in CVS) so I can't post a working demo :-(
> 
> But here's something that you *should* be able to write:
> 
> class mytype(type):
>     def __new__(*args):
>         print "mytype.__new__" + str(args)
>         return type.__new__(*args)
> 
> class C:
>     __metaclass__ = mytype
> 
> print C.__class__		# <type 'mytype'>
> a = C()
> print a.__class__		# <type 'C'>

Another question is: will you be able to inherit from C and get the same
behavior as the current situation where ideally this would work:

class meta:
    def __init__(self, klass, bases, dict):
        pass

class foo:
    __metaclass__ = meta
print 'foo is', foo  # foo *is* an meta instance

class bar(foo): pass # dies here
print 'bar is', bar  # would be lovely if bar was an instance of meta

Similar to the old (pre 2.2) way which would look like this:


class meta:
    def __init__(self, klass, bases, dict):
        pass

m = meta(1,3,3)

class foo(m): pass
print 'foo is', foo
# prints -> foo is <__main__.meta instance at 80da338>

class bar(foo): pass
print 'bar is', bar
# prints -> bar is <__main__.meta instance at 80da358>


Yes, you can inherit from type but it doesn't really produce the desired
behavior:


class meta: #can inherit from type or set __metaclass__, output is the same
    __metaclass__ = type
    def __init__(self, klass, bases, dict):
        pass

class foo(meta): pass
print 'foo is', foo
#prints -> foo is <type 'foo'>

class bar(foo): pass 
print 'bar is', bar
#prints -> bar is <type 'bar'>


In this case, foo and bar are type objects, not instances of meta,
which is what I'm looking to do.  Is this part of what you were saying
about it not working yet, or has my head exploded without my knowledge
and I'm overlooking the obvious?

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that for a library I
currently have using 2.1, currently the user can be totally ignorant
of the fact that they are not defining regular classes, but
metaclasses, and ideally, I'd like to keep it that way.

Drew

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 03:34:55 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:34:55 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com>

Deep0258 wrote:
> 
> I am just wondering, since I am now joining python and it's greatness, why
> don't the developers of Python make Python just as fast(if not faster) than the
> older, more low-level lanquage. Yes, there are advantages using the interpreter
> style programs, but isn't there a way to incorporate the speed of compiled
> programs with the debugging and clearness of Interpreter to make Python a much
> faster lanquage. There might be a way, but I'm pretty new so I don't know. Any
> answers, thank you for listening?

Since you seem to know about interpreters versus compilers, you 
probably know already that code which runs on an interpreter, 
as a general rule, is significantly slower than compiled code.
Therefore I'll assume you are really just suggesting that 
somebody write a compiler for Python.

This gets suggested frequently, and while there are more
thorough answers than this, in a nutshell the answer seems
to be that the dynamic nature of Python makes full compilation
an intractable problem.

An answer from a different point of view is "why bother?"
Python is already "fast enough" for many applications -- one
might even say "for most applications for which it is 
used", and there is little interest in improving its
speed compared to improvements in other areas.  Python 
programmers tend to adopt a philosophy of making code work
rather than making code fast.  Given a choice of doing 
one or the other, any reasonable person would pick the former.
Since so many software projects are failures even before
they manage to release their products, if they ever do,
Python contributes greatly to improving that dismal 
record even with its currents speed.  So, "why bother"?
There are many things to fix in the software world
before we optimize...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From m.linnemann at addcom.de  Thu Aug  9 10:13:05 2001
From: m.linnemann at addcom.de (Michael Linnemann)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:13:05 +0200
Subject: generating SQL - problem
References: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <hp5uk9.bo.ln@haegar.fqdn.th-h.de>

Am Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:07:57 +0100 Lee wrote:

>I wonder if someone could offer me a little advice. I have a large
>(155KB) text file holding MP3 data in the format:

>Filename with path   ; Title    ; Artistd
>d:\\SRS\\Breed.mp3      ; Breed         ; Snake River Conspiracy

>I want to parse this file and create a single SQL insert statement, but
>I am having a few problems. I have the following script, which works
>fine (may not be pretty, but it works ;-)

A very short (and fast) solution looks like:

"copy tablename from /path/to/your/file using delimiters ';'";

That ist postgresql-syntax, but other databases offer similar commands
("load data infile...", "copy from stdin...").

> [...]

># |     FullSQL = FullSQL + SQL + ";"

The ";" ends the SQL command; so why not send it to the database, check
for errors, and then try the next? It would be far easier to collect the
rejected lines this way. In _my_ files at least, there are always bad
lines.

Regards
Michael


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 11:58:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:58:28 +0200
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9le67302gss@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Rob Andrews" <rob at jam.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B7A87D8.6F75B13F at jam.rr.com...
> I just posted this to the Python Tutor list, so please forgive the
> cross-posting. I'm just academically curious about this.
>
> *Learning Python* (pp. 99-105) points out that declaring globals from
> within functions is possible, and shows how. I'm trying to think of
> *why* one might want to declare or modify a global from within a
> function.

Typically as a shortcut to avoid making a class &c, as in:

_totalcount = 0
def addwords(words_string):
    global _totalcount
    _totalcount += len(words_string.split())
def getcount():
    return _totalcount

as a rough equivalent of:

class Counter:
    def __init__(self):
        self._counter = 0
    def addwords(self, words_string):
        self._counter += len(words_string.split())
    def getcount(self):
        return self._counter
_counter = Counter()
addwords = _counter.addwords
getcount = _counter.getcount

There are other idioms yet for this, of course, but the rough & ready
one that global allows can still be handy when hacking something
together, although most often you'll want to refactor it away into a
class when prettying up your code after a session of interactive
development (but not always, depending on individual style).


> A friend who knows quite a bit more than I do about the subject said:
> "That's the first thing about python I've seen that really makes me go
> "yecchhh.".  Global variables have to be declared outside the scope of
> any functions or methods in almost every langauge except Perl."

Python has no declarations -- the global statement may seem to come
close, but it IS technically a statement.  It tells the compiler "although
local is the default for variables locally bound or re-bound, for this one
I want you to make an exception please -- let it be global instead".

There being no declarations at all, of course there aren't, in particular,
any declarations that have to be "outside the scope of any functions".
The global statement has to be INSIDE the scope of each function to
which it applies, because any function lacking it will use the default
rule of seeing as local any variable it binds or rebinds.

Having to tag as global, explicitly, any global variable your function
needs to bind or re-bind, is, I think, a good way to discourage the
overuse of global variables while keeping them available for those
who prefer them, and therefore quite a Pythonic thing.


Alex





From ksimpson at ttul.org  Tue Aug 28 17:55:06 2001
From: ksimpson at ttul.org (Ken Simpson)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:55:06 GMT
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your
 Python!
In-Reply-To: <15243.59287.973821.916774@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com>
 <15243.59287.973821.916774@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281253320.28808-100000@ttul.org>

> This is very cool.  Can it (internally, at least) just be called "inline" or
> "Inline" though?  There's no particular need to distinguish it from Perl's
> Inline module within the scope of Python programs, is there?

No, there really isn't any need to call the module PyInline. However, I
didn't want to call the project Inline because that would conflict with
Brian's work and to call the module something different than the project
would perhaps be confusing.. Thoughts??

> Were you able to leverage any of the techniqueus used in Brian Ingerson's
> work?

I looked at Brian's Inline to figure out PyInline's high level design and
also to figure out how one builds arbitrary chunks of "anonymous" code
(i.e., one idea is to build the code in a subdirectory which has in its
name the MD5 checksum of the code).

Brian's Inline also provides a few abstractions which I will be adding to
PyInline in future. In particular, PyInline currently only supports C.
In order to support the addition of more languages, I need to abstract out
the concept of building an arbitrary chunk of code in some language and
then "binding" to it.

TTUL
Ken




From ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com  Mon Aug  6 23:15:03 2001
From: ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:15:03 GMT
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>

In article <72X97.12093$9i1.972452 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>,
Brian Marick  <marick at visibleworkings.com> wrote:
>Eric Raymond is proposing using Perl's backend for Python. Discussion here:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016406.html
>
>At 11:57 AM 8/1/01 , Phil Tomson wrote:
>>There is a thread about using .NET's CLR as a backend for Ruby, but how 
>>about using Perl6's backend? (as an Open Source alternative to .NET's 
>>CLR)

It seems to me that if there is any kind of 'official' collaboration 
between the Perl and Python worlds that the Ruby community needs to 
try to have some sort of 'official' representation in these meetings.  
Since, as ESR says in the 
link above, the Perl6 backend is 'not yet set in stone' this also offers 
the Ruby community some opportunity to offer suggestions as well.  And 
many of the benefits for Python which ESR mentions also work for Ruby.

I suspect that if the Perl people are willing to make their backend work 
with Python, that getting it to work with Ruby wouldn't be too difficult.

In the new spirit of language cooperation I'm posting this to 
comp.lang.python too (I'm not sure which Perl newsgroup to post to, I 
think this sort of discussion would get lost in comp.lang.perl.misc)- so 
how can Ruby get in on the Parrot action?  (hint, hint :-)

Is there any sort of forum (comp.lang.parrot? - well, parrot isn't 
strictly a language ) where all three groups can discuss ideas? 

Questions for the Ruby community to ponder: What sorts of features do we 
need that might be unique to Ruby?  [One that comes to mind: the ability 
to extend an existing class.]  For the 
most part, I think our needs are very 
similar to Python's.

Phil



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 08:55:11 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:55:11 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141413250.673-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <9lana3018bc@enews1.newsguy.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141413250.673-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15225.8111.504078.250066@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roman> Oh... Threads are mentioned only once in the end of PEP.  Another
    Roman> good question: what about generators? They aren't explicitly
    Roman> mentioned.  (And they are... err... potentioally active).

In my original thinking on the idea I gave some thought to threads, but then
convinced myself that the global interpreter lock was my friend.  Obviously,
if the GIL goes away, my assumptions won't hold and the various objects
involved in the tracking will have to be protected.

    Roman> If I understood correctly, tracked objects must be mostly applied
    Roman> to "constants". This assumption could lead to fast read. How fast
    Roman> write operation is is irrelevant.

Yes and no.  If I define a list:

    l = []

Then until l is bound to another object or goes out of scope it is
"constant".  "l.append" is also "constant" in this sense and is more
interesting to consider tracking because it is more expensive to look up in
the current scheme of things.

    Roman> I do not understand the following:

    Roman>     The number of tracked objects should be relatively small.
    Roman>     All active frames of all active threads could conceivably be
    Roman>     tracking objects, but this seems small compared to the number
    Roman>     of functions defined in a given application.

"relatively small" is a well... relative term.   The idea was to convey that
not every object will be tracked, only those with a potential payoff.  At
any one time, only objects associated with active PyFrameObjects will be
tracked, but it will not just be the top PyFrameObject of each thread's
stack.  It will be all the frame objects currently active for that thread.
Suppose I have 5,000 threads all executing this function:

    def foo():
        l = []
        for i in range(len(1000)):
            l.append(math.sin(i))
        return l

There are two objects potentially worth tracking: "l.append" and "math.sin".
I'm not sure the cost of slowing down every STORE_FAST instruction is worth
the cost savings of tracking "l.append" (it would probably no longer be just
an array store), but tracking "math.sin" would almost certainly be worth
it.  Note that if the binding of "math.sin" *did* change, the tracking for
5,000 copies of that name (one for each PyFrameObject in each thread) would
have to be updated.

    Roman> How small the number of tracked objects should be?  Will there be
    Roman> another arbitrary limit (like stack size)?  (Related ques: are
    Roman> there plans to remove stack-limit in Python?

No, there shouldn't be an arbitrary limit.  I assume that tracking will be
done using dictionaries.  This PEP does not concern itself directly with
stack issues, so I will defer that to someone like Christian Tismer who is
much better equipped to address such topics.

Skip



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug  3 12:49:29 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:49:29 -0700
Subject: Number precision
References: <630035fe.0108030836.3a27647@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kekub$45i59$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Yes.

x = 50.0

HTH

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Buzz B." <kraydl at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:630035fe.0108030836.3a27647 at posting.google.com...
> Excuse the rookie question:
>
> x=50
> x/100 results in 0 instead of .5
>
> Now I can do:
> y = float(x)/100  to get the correct answer
>
> Is there a way to predefine x as a floating?



From mark.duquette at openave.com  Tue Aug 28 16:48:26 2001
From: mark.duquette at openave.com (Mark Duquette)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:48:26 -0400
Subject: thread.py missing
Message-ID: <0rTi7.24935$k9.69@news-lex.software.com>

Hi -

I am trying to build Python 2.11 on Solaris 2.8.  Everything seems to be
working fine, but I never get the thread.py module.

I have tried building with both GCC (gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release))
and Forte 6.1 (though I don't think this is the problem).

I am configuring as such:
    ./configure --prefix=/scratch/Python211 \
                    --exec-prefix=/scratch/Python211 \
                    --with-threads=yes

Any ideas??

Thanks
  -Mark





From anamax at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 10 18:07:01 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 15:07:01 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com>

Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message news:<psoy9os5a88.fsf at jekyll.curl.com>...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> > Applications whose "performance bottleneck" is _100%_ of their code?!
> > Never heard of any such thing.  10% to 20% seems to be common.  What
> > counter-examples do you have in mind?
> 
> Not a bottleneck, but a continuous degredation of performance across the
> entire application due to memory use, overhead for method dispatching, etc.
> This situation is only likely to happen in very large OO applications.

"continuous degradation" doesn't matter outside places that aren't
performance critical.  For example, code that waits for humans can
be quite "degraded" before it matters at all.

This is why I mentioned inappropriate attention to performance earlier.

> There are also deployment situations where you might not be allowed to make
> use of C extensions.

You could deploy C.  You could deploy Python (which has numerous
standard extensions).  However, you can't deploy Python plus C extensions.

Many things can happen.  However, only a small fraction happen often enough
to worry about.

I realize that some situations come with arbitrary and nonsense restrictions.
I've found that when faced with such a situation, the appropriate response is
usually to find a new situation.  Regardless of the correctness of my
evaluation, that response improves things for everyone.

> > Not by itself, surely -- but, when using Python together with lower-level
> > languages for that 10% to 20% of code whose speed really matters, I
> > can't easily think of examples.
> 
> But why can't Python be fast enough without resorting to extensions?  Forcing
> users to learn C in order to make their Python code fast detracts from
> Python's advantage as a simple, easy-to-use language.

Of course, there's another alternative - with Python's development time
advantages, they'll have more time to come up with better algorithms, so
they may not need the extension.

> personally don't think that type declarations would add much complexity, but I
> guess I can see how someone new to them might be confused.

You must have missed a post or two.  If they're required, they either aren't
adequate, or they are complex, or both (C).

> Of course, that same person would be lost once they had to learn C.

And maybe they'll never have reason to learn C.  I suspect that a fair
number of SQL programmers don't.  I'm sure that many Excel programmers
don't.  Yet, both are able to write programs.  Why is it reasonable to
assume that a Python programmer will need to know C?

If you think that type declarations are important, you know where to find
them.

Remember - Python can't be better (or worse) than C without being different
from C.

-andy


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug 10 03:11:38 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 07:11:38 GMT
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.996843727.12021.python-list@python.org> <cpd76dxeni.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996865026.20984.python-list@python.org> <3B735996.97E41F40@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9n729a.ru3.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:48:38 +1200, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> pisze:

>> 'except' varname 'in' 'class' ExceptionName[, ExceptionName]* ':'
> 
> The trouble is that if "x in class y" were also
> a valid expression, the new and old except
> syntaxes would conflict.

Technically yes, but nobody wants
    except 0:
or
    except 1:
which would be possible results of the above syntax interpreted
according to the old syntax, so there is no problem with letting
this syntactic rule win over the old one.

A problem appears only when someone slightly changes the syntax by
mistake and it's suddenly interpreted differently rather than causing
an error.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 17:59:38 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:59:38 -0500
Subject: Control of flow
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENKLCAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311355450.2321-100000@cb921.local>
        <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENKLCAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <15208.31690.915537.304871@beluga.mojam.com>

    [much dict-as-finite-state-machine stuff elided]

    Tim> believe-me-now-or-believe-me-later<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim

I believe Tim.  (Based on past experience, I find it's generally a good bet
to take Tim's advice.  Now if he would just start picking stocks we could
all retire and fiddle with Python to our hearts' content in our copious free
time... ;-)

If you don't want to build a finite state machine from scratch using dicts
and function pointers, you can start with my finite state machine class:

    http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/fsm.py

It's getting a little dated (uses regex and string exceptions), but it still
works for me.  I just haven't taken the time to update it (all of, what, ten
minutes?).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 03:46:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:46:53 +0200
Subject: Compiling Python2.2a1 & losing command-line features
References: <btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <9ko6db015b1@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Johnston" <paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:btJb7.18749$jA2.1557337 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> I have used binary and source-compiled versions of Python.  In every case
> where I use the latter my Python environment loses all its normal niceties
> like backspace, line-repeat, etc.  Is there a setting or configuration
item
> I need to set to get these back?

I think it's necessary and sufficient (on non-Windows platform) to
enable the 'readline' extension (which implies you must have a
working 'readline' library).  On Windows platform, you can make
do with the normal line-editing supplied by CMD.EXE on /NT and
/2000 consoles, or, for something better and/or something that
works on /98 and friends, try Chris Gonnerman's "Alternative
Readline", at:
http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/readline.html


Alex





From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 29 23:13:09 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:13:09 -0700
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com> <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mkb8j$2lc0b$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

One thing you could do schedule a self-rescheduling at job to iterate
through the batch jobs submitted.  You could set up a long running python
job that spends most of its time sleeping, then wakes and checks the batch
job submission directory.  I've got zope creating and processing batch files
using:

batch = open(batFile, 'w')
for eachCommand in osCommands:
    batch.write("%s\n" % eachCommand)
batch.flush()
batch.close()
os.system(batFile)
if REQUEST.printLoc == "None":
    return
"Submitted!\n\nReprinted:%s\n\nSequences:%s\n\nLines:%s\n\nREQUEST:%s" %
(repr(rePrintSeqs), repr(assignedSeqs), db_repr(lines), repr(REQUEST))
else:
    return "Submitted!"

HTH,


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Terry Byrne" <TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a at posting.google.com...
> Hi, Emile, and thanks for the response.
>
> What I want seems like it should be simple, especially for a language
> as capable as Python. Maybe the answer is some combination of Python
> and batch language or something...
>
> Right now, users on our intranet (production managers at a publishing
> company) fill out an HTML form according to varying production needs.
> Based on their input, an existing Python CGI script builds a DOS batch
> file to run some time-consuming processes on the server. Right now,
> users must use pcAnywhere "remote control" to take over the server,
> start a DOS session, and run the batch file manually. I want to
> eliminate that step. I've been trying to run the batch file on
> submission of the HTML form, to no avail. It seems that because the
> user comes in via HTTP to the CGI, the server's context is unaware of
> the server's own drive structure & path environment variable. Or
> something. Even in my ignorance I see that there are perfectly valid
> security reasons for that.
>
> I wanted to avoid the complications of varying drive mappings etc.
> when building the command lines for the batch file, so the CGI assumes
> the server's local drive structure for paths to exes and input files.
> Because of this assumption, I know, the batch file must run locally. I
> know a truly elegant solution would get the user's drive mapping (if
> exists) to create the proper commands, or maybe it would change drive
> mappings on-the-fly to a standard or something, assuming rights could
> be obtained to do so from the net admin group etc., but that seems too
> elaborate :-)... or maybe that would be easier than I suspect. If so,
> please advise.
>
> Now I'd like some way of running the command lines when the CGI form
> is submitted, or maybe I'd first build the DOS batch file as I am
> right now, then I'd call it. But everything I've tried results in an
> OSError.
>
> Right now when the users run their DOS batch file via pcAnywhere, a
> Python script uses os.popen()to run the custom DOS batch commands
> one-by-one. It evaluates the results returned by the production
> utilities both to stdin and to the utilities' own log files, and the
> script then optionally e-mails specified managers of the results of
> the production processes. (I think that makes sense!) But this whole
> procedure must be started manually via pcAnywhere. I'd really like to
> change that.
>
> Hope this helps. I'm definitely not proud, especially in this crowd.
> Thanks!
>
> -Terry
>
>
> "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:<9mhsps$2a133$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>...
> > There's lots of ways of doing it.  Why don't you explain a bit what
you're
> > after?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Emile van Sebille
> > emile at fenx.com
> >
> > ---------
> > "Terry Byrne" <TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58 at posting.google.com...
> > > All,
> > >
> > > I need to allow clients to run a DOS batch file from an HTML form that
> > > resides on a Windows NT server. Using system(commandline) I always get
> > > an OSError.
> > >
> > > Right now we're using pcAnywhere to log on to the server and run the
> > > batch file that way. I want to make it simpler by using the HTML form.
> > >
> > > The batch file will always be in the same location on the server. I
> > > want to avoid all drive mapping complications by just running the
> > > batch file from an HTML form. Is there a way to do that, or is it
> > > disallowed for security reasons or some other?
> > >
> > > Thanks!



From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Fri Aug 17 10:02:45 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:02:45 +0100
Subject: What is a Function?
References: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com> <9lijhf01013@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D2405.50606@herts.ac.uk>

Come on alex, you can go into more detail than that!! We all know real 
programmers program in binary anyway ;)

blobby

Alex Martelli wrote:

[...snip...]
>>>>dis.disassemble(c)
>>>>
>           0 SET_LINENO               1
> 
>           3 SET_LINENO               1
>           6 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
>           9 PRINT_ITEM
>          10 LOAD_FAST                1 (y)
>          13 PRINT_ITEM
>          14 PRINT_NEWLINE
>          15 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>          18 RETURN_VALUE
> 
> But that's getting into a bit too much detail, I think.
> Alex



From michael at rcp.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 10:14:54 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:14:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996682083.19421.python-list@python.org> <9kb8mq02bd2@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F19B5D37704michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

[posted and mailed]

Alex, I'd like to say more in response to your very interesting message 
below, but it's difficult to know where to begin.  I agree wholeheartedly 
with your sentiments, but I'm wondering if you're aware of just how 
difficult what you're describing is to achieve!?

For example, there is a type system known as Coq (http://coq.inria.fr/) 
which uses a type system similar in spirit to what you describe (but Coq is 
oriented towards the automation of formal mathematical proofs).  Coq is 
based upon dependent types, and demonstrates that type checking of the sort 
you are talking about is, in principle, at least as difficult as solving an 
arbitrary mathematical problem!  Also, it has to be said that expressing 
mathematics in Coq is *very* hard work (formalising the "fundamental 
theorem of algebra", ie, the result that polynomials over C have roots, was 
worth several PhDs recently).

I also remember a recent language in a similar spirit (don't have the 
reference to hand) where a two-level language was developed: one level for 
expressing programs, the other level for expressing assertions about 
programs (and building proofs of those assertions, if I recall correctly).  

I'm of the opinion that work on dependent types is the way forwards, but 
there are some big (gigantic?) obstacles to be overcome first...


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in 
news:9kb8mq02bd2 at enews1.newsguy.com:

> "Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote in message
> news:mailman.996682083.19421.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> """
>> Back to Python -- programming in Python has always felt to me a *LOT*
>> like generic programming 
> 
> Yup. Only, in Python it's very implicit.
> """
> ...just about as in C++, except more so:-).
> 
> 
> """
> The nice thing about Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
> on the generic parameters are spellt out explicitly. For most
> """
> The problem with Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
> on the generic parameters are to be spelled out explicitly.  Type
> inference (as in Haskell) or signature-based polymorphism (as in
> C++ templates and in Python) is smooth indeed (although the ability
> to state out loud what you think the compiler will infer, if it
> could be done without really adding any significant complexity,
> would be a nice extra).
> 
> The issue from my POV is: what defines "a type", except the
> signatures of that subset of its interfaces that a given generic
> component is actually using?  Presumably the programming-as-
> contracting preconditions/postconditions/invariants on those
> interfaces -- but those are *runtime*-checked, and even that
> hardly catches a significant portion of the "type semantics".
> 
> Consider the issue of: what predicate-parameter P can I pass to
> a generic such as C++'s std::sort.  Of course, I have some
> signature constraints -- P(x,y) must be callable for certain
> x and y and return something usable as a boolean value; C++
> catches errors about this at compile-time, while Python, if
> I try calling mylist.sort(unsuitableP) where unsuitableP is
> not callable with two parameters that are items of mylist,
> will only catch it at run-time.  Having the check happen at
> compile-time gives me the error diagnostics slightly earlier
> (5 to 10 minutes, if I use a sensible testing policy) AND
> makes it easy for C++ to generate stupendous code (if P is
> inline or can be inlined).
> 
> But that barely scratches the surface!  The REAL conditions
> that define the type of P are:
>     not P(x,x) for any x
>     P(x, y) implies not P(y, x) for any x, y
>     P(x, y) and P(y, z) implies P(x, z) for any x, y, z
> Note the universal-quantifier 'any' liberally used here:
> it's not something quaint and peculiar, it's TYPICAL of
> real type-constraints, making them uncheckable in the
> general case, even at runtime (much less compiletime).
> 
> THIS is the kind of thing I'd really like to express in a
> compiler-usable way!  THIS is the kind of thing that would
> make my programs MUCH clearer to human readers, and really
> get mileage out of type-checking.  What, if anything, the
> compiler is able to do with such a hypothetically formalized
> expression of my real design intentions is a minor issue.
> 
> If *sometimes* a runtime check (or, joy!, even a compile
> time one, saving me several precious extra minutes) can be
> inferred from such type-constraints (maybe only in some
> kind of debug-mode, if, as likely, checks would burden
> the program), then great.  If *sometimes* the compiler is
> able to optimize away some computation by *relying* on my
> assertions, then super (maybe only in some kind of optimize
> mode, if, as likely, it would slow down compilation a lot).
> 
> But existing languages appear to me to have things
> backwards.  They *start* from what they'll be able to
> check, and/or able to exploit for optimization, and
> use THAT criterion to decide what subset of my design
> intentions I'm allowed (or, more often, required) to
> formally express in the language.
> 
> That's like the drunkard looking for his keys under
> the streetlamp, even though he knows he's dropped them
> at the other end of the road, because it's too dark
> over there...:-).  A language should let me say what
> I mean, and do of that what it can.  Compilers and
> supporting tools do evolve, old applications tend to
> live forever; basing what a language lets me express
> (or forces me to express) on today's compiler and
> tool technology is back-asswards.
> 
> Given the incomplete and unsatisfactory state of the
> way various languages let me (or rather force me to)
> express my design intentions, I'd rather do away with
> all the complexity, and just use Python (or C++
> templates).  Give me an URL to a usable language that
> lets me express the most basic typing constraints,
> such as symmetry or antisymmetry, reflexivity or
> antireflexivity, and transitivity, as above, and I'll
> be more than happy to give it a try.  But Ada, Eiffel,
> C++ (what it DOES do for typechecking), Java, and,
> sigh, even Haskell, don't really cut the mustard today.
> Therefore, Python's *simplicity* wins the day, as
> you say...:
> 
> """
> application areas, Python still wins hands down, though.
> """
> I agree, but I hope you can now better see WHY I do
> so fully agree.  Complication must bring a payoff that
> offsets its undeniable costs.  Today's type-checking,
> as applied in the above-listed languages, doesn't, in
> terms of useful earlier-detection of errors -- it's
> little use to find out about an error 10 minutes
> earlier, if it takes me 15 more minutes to write the
> code snippet because of extra language complication.
> Most interesting checks happen at runtime if at all,
> and in fact most important properties can't even be
> stated formally in the languages, because of a lack
> of existential and universal quantifiers.
> 
> Today's typechecks DO help hugely in terms of
> optimization, even though Self, the Scheme compiler
> stalin, and good Common Lisp compilers all prove
> that static typing is nowhere near a NEED to get
> such optimizations, that type inference even in
> a hugely dynamic language can get there too.  But
> C++'s generics are an excellent example of the way
> lack of type-constraint declaration in no way
> inhibits type-based optimization -- given signature
> based polymorphism, type-inference in any actual
> instantiation of a generic IS pretty trivial:-).
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 



From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Aug 29 14:57:43 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:57:43 -0500
Subject: Problems installing on Solaris2.6
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA5342@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

The way I got it installed on Solaris 2.6 is to use the binary version from www.activestate.com.  Of course, this doesn't address your original question exactly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Yahna [mailto:yahna at vni.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:03 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Problems installing on Solaris2.6


When installing on Solaris 2.6, I get the following message that seems to
repeat endlessly:

Listing /opt/python/lib/python2.1/ ...

This is from "make install" after successfully running
"configure --prefix=/opt/python" and "make".

I have tried with version 1.6 as well and have the same problem.

Any help would be appreciated.

- Matt







From jwbaxter at spamcop.com  Fri Aug 31 10:49:06 2001
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:49:06 -0700
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <310820010749067358%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>

In article <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM at 161.48.128.20>, Fred Pacquier
<fredp at mygale.org.nospam> wrote:

> Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I believe I did my homework 
> (docs, FATS, Google etc.) and the answer still eludes me :
> 
> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?

Or 246.814.345  ;-).  Any others?

I think there is room for a module which "does what Microsoft Excel
does" based on format strings, if not a bit more.

Is there such a module?

  --John


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 09:38:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:38:39 +0200
Subject: Control of flow
References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311355450.2321-100000@cb921.local> <9k6b2u027hv@enews4.newsguy.com> <Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311707320.4442-100000@cb921.local>
Message-ID: <9k90p50jmd@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Campbell" <cb921 at voice.co.za> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311707320.4442-100000 at cb921.local...
    ...
> >What are the conditions under which you want to repeat
> >this inner loop (letting the user enter a day for the
> >fixed month) rather than redo the outer loop (letting
> >the user enter the month again)?
>
> In this case I'd like to keep the caller in the inner (day) loop,
> entering '#' cound be checked to go to the outer loop, but I use
> constructs like this for many things.  Sometimes a caller will enter the
> begin and end of a range, and which loop to jump into could depend on
> what specific error condition was noticed.

Exactly because you use such constructs frequently, you
should embody them into functions (or possibly classes,
but that doesn't seem to give much added value here) and
use exceptions to signal "out-of-band" when needed.  Do
remember an exception is an instance like any other and
is quite capable of carrying extra auxiliary information.

> I've made something exactly
> this ugly (except which worked) twice today already, and this is what it
> all gets to look like?  Every time I do it, I think to myself, that it
> is rare unless I'm handling this kind of input, where values are
> available one at a time, and I must respond with prompts correctly.
> Following which is the thought: "that sort of input is kind of
> common around this place..."

So it's not rare for you, so you should spend a little
bit more effort ONCE to get a nice reusable framework
(functions & exception classes) for your purposes.

> Here is where Perl's name-able loops are remembered with fondness.
> (but Perl by nature just isn't maintainable of course ;-)

Sure, but I wouldn't mind an ability to name loops, either.
It's hardly crucial, but it IS handy at times (Java has
them, too).

> >that's not too bad for a couple of entries, but it
> >gets slightly tiresome when you have a zillion.  That
> >is (part of:-) what exceptions are for...
>
> thank you... I could make an interesting while 1: with a try: inside of
> it handling custom exceptions, and in each except: could have the
> retry/continue stuff.  Still, for the common situation where context
> differs and 'error' conditions that are checked for vary, it seems like
> a bit of overkill.  It's not that I mind doing it, it's at least
> 'elegant' while my cont variables are not, I just mind having to explain
> that to the workers :)

Overkill?  Yes, if the need is infrequent, but, if frequent, then no.
Python makes it quite easy for you to build in just the amount of
flexibility you need by passing in functions or other callables,
for example.


> I'm trying to replace a commercial telephony platform with something I
> hacked together with swig and Py, on which many different applications
> share the server, each with it's own number.  So far it's going very
> well, the only Gripe I have ever heard from others (or had myself)  has
> been this.  So I shouldn't whine too loud, Python really has changed my
> world for the better. :)

But you can remove this specific "gripe" too, quite easily...


Alex





From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 15:56:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:56:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list scanner loop...?
In-Reply-To: <910C3737CtefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281535190.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, tefol wrote:

> Hi there.
>
> Another newbie, armed with Learning Python.  Setting myself a task of
> manipulating all the VirtualHost entries on a Linux Apache server....

Oh hell...

Not for being a newbie, for wanting to go anywhere near VirtualHost with a
program. I guess sending a newbie after that is probably best. You all seem to
think of such a thing as a "challenge". To any sane person such a thing would
be nuts ;)

> The first thing I wanted to do was to clean up the number of newlines
> between eachvirthost entry...    Which then allowed me to make a list of
> VirtualHost entries...
>
> Just because it was easy I decided to sort them,  though this will lead to
> another challenge later when I try to put a specific entry abck to the top
> of the list.

IIRC, if you use __default__:80, then you won't need a specific one at the
top of the list.

> Next, and this was the main purpose of the project in the first place, I
> need to check through each VirtualHost to see if they are logging, and then
> if they aren't insert a TransferLog and ErrorLog entry into their
> VirtualHost.
>
> This is where I get into a spot of bother.  I need to do something similart
> to creating a file scanner loop,  but instead of a file I need to use this
> list.   I just don't see how.

You need to go through each element of the list:

---
for i in lFile:
  [do something to i]
  [do something else]
   ...
---

i will contain each of the elements of the list one at a time in order.

> Is it possible?   If I write the list out to a file, then do a file scanner
> loop all the \n in each list entry will make everything screwy.

Don't write it to a file until you are completely, absolutely, 100% done. File
operations are SLOOOOOOW compared to in-memory tasks.

> The code I have below works great,  I just can't see where to take it next
> to accomplish what I need.   Any advice, comments, even style guide would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> Tefol

Something you can do is write code to tear apart the VirtualHost sections
line-by-line and store the directive and its options separately. I'm sure that
there are plenty of people who would find such a tool useful :)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 19:41:42 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:41:42 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> Although it has been shown that the commercial agencies can be subverted
> (most recently in the Microsoft case that you talk about), in return for the
> payment many of them will actually indemnify you against losses you incur.
> The larger the payment the greater the indemnity. Of course, none of them
> indemnify their free certificates, which seems reasonable.

Actually, some CA's indemnify certificate holders, but I don't know of
any that indemnify relying parties (people who trust the certificates).

> Utlimately you have to trust *someone*. PGP's ideas in a distributed web of
> trust were interesting, but unfortunately there weren't enough PGP users for
> indivduals unknown to each other to be able to acquire mutual trust, so the
> scheme has pretty much foundered. It would be nice if someone would start a
> free "open CA", but sadly there is real work involved in verifying
> identities.

Things like this have been tried anyway, e.g. Thawte web of trust.

> Of more concern, of course, is that by default the common browsers don't
> check the CA's revocation list to ensure that an apparently valid
> certificate hasn't been revoked due to some kind of problem (fraudulently
> obtained or issued to wrong party would be the two most common cases). If
> there really were a public key infrastructure this would be practical, and
> Microsoft wouldn't have had to patch their products to avoid them accepting
> the bogus certificates.

The downside of CRL checking is it means every single one of your
secure site visits gets reported to the CA.  


From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Wed Aug  1 08:54:28 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:54:28 GMT
Subject: how can use mkdir to override the old one
References: <mailman.996651362.9838.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010801.090133.492067917.13575@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article <mailman.996651362.9838.python-list at python.org>, "sdf"
<wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote:


> I use mkdir('doc'),but this directory is exists,so it throw an err. how
> can force to do this

I am not sure if there is a way you can force the mkdir. You could always
remove it first, then make it. But you could also do:

import os
try:
	os.mkdir('doc')
except OSError:
	pass

That would basicaly make the directory, unless it can't (because it
exists), in which case it would just do nothing because it is already
there. Hopefully that helps.

-- 
"The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore be
  regarding as a criminal offense" - E. W. Dijkstra

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug  7 12:03:41 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:03:41 GMT
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <6yNb7.78753$EP6.18929455@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <4840ntsemvg19nb961td2a1qc4sr29seg5@4ax.com>

>There must be dozens of special data structures that *could* be added.

Yes, but the point is, linked lists, if added, still wouldn't be any faster for
just about anyone.

C//



From rbtns082484 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 10:29:46 2001
From: rbtns082484 at hotmail.com (Rbtns)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:29:46 -0400
Subject: Radiobutton HELP!!
Message-ID: <3B85135A.E5EE3002@hotmail.com>

Hi, I'm trying to use Radiobuttons with Tkinter. I've used them before,
but never two lists of them at one time.  The problem I am having is
that everytime I make a selection in one radiobutton list, the program
automatically makes that same selection for the other list. I have
included sample code to illustrate:

from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
root.title('Radio Button Test')

sel1 = -1
sel2 = -1

menubar = Menu(root)
sel1menu = Menu(menubar, tearoff=0)
sel2menu = Menu(menubar, tearoff=0)

for a in range(3):

sel1menu.add_radiobutton(label='Select'+str(a),variable=sel1,value=a)
for a in range(5):

sel2menu.add_radiobutton(label='Select'+str(a),variable=sel2,value=a)

menubar.add_cascade(label='Select1',menu=sel1menu)
menubar.add_cascade(label='Select2',menu=sel2menu)

root.config(menu=menubar)

root.mainloop()

If anyone knows how to do this, please don't hesistate to respond. Thank
you very much.



From Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au  Mon Aug 20 21:42:40 2001
From: Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au (Bart Bartels)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:42:40 +1000
Subject: Facilities Management software
References: <3B7DC46E.B422C7E8@vu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3B81BC90.79D7650E@vu.edu.au>

I am posting some email responses to this query in chronological order.  I
would like input from others as well.  BTW if this is not the appropriate
forum please point to the correct one.

> Bart, I've just come across your email in PY group, currently we are
forming
> a group on a python project, and with a thinking like yours that we want
to
> pick up the skills in PY, and we target to deliver an implementation in
1.5
> months timeframe. As we are still in the preliminary stage, we would like
to
> know more of your facilities management initiative and see if we could
work
> together. If you are interested, I will let you know of our team's
> background here. Thx.
>
> cheers, KT
> --
> Kenneth Tsang
> email: smt at pacific.net.hk tel: +852 9468 4772

to which I replied

> G'Day Kenneth
>
> Thanks for the email.  I would like to have this appear in the newsgroup
as well
> so I would like your permission to post to it with my and your results.  I
will
> wait till you email back before I do.
>
> I have been an admirer of the Open Source movement for a number of years
and
> wondered how I could become involved.  My area of expertise is in
Facilities
> Management (20 years) starting from a trade background (carpentry).  I
have had
> experience using PCs since 1981 and have a little experience in using VB.
I
> came across Python late last year and have been intrigued ever since.
>
> Now on with it
>
> The department I work in is coming to terms with budgets and limited
resources.
> We have to deal with all these problems as well as improve our own way of
doing
> things.  All the trades and services are outsourced and we manage the
contracts
> and agreements with them.  The University staff pass their requests for
> maintenance and services to us and we then arrange for the work to be
done.
> Included is the normal maintenance and services that we need to run our
> buildings and plant.
>
> > Bart, I've just come across your email in PY group, currently we are
forming
> > a group on a python project, and with a thinking like yours that we want
to
> > pick up the skills in PY, and we target to deliver an implementation in
1.5
> > months timeframe.
> >
> > At present we are using a software package called BEIMS.  This package
is under
> > maintenance and we pay $ for the privilege of using it.  We have had to
adjust
> > our way of doing to conform to the program.  To have it tailored would
cost mega
> > $.  The software as we have it is for our use (10 seats) and is not
available to
> > the Uni staff.  An intranet/internet module can be licensed (again $).
I
> > thought that there may be an open source package that I might be able to
use and
> > modify but it would need to be in an easy to use and modify language,
hence
> > Python.
>
> > As we are still in the preliminary stage, we would like to
> > know more of your facilities management initiative and see if we could
work
> > together. If you are interested, I will let you know of our team's
> > background here. Thx.
>
> At present I have not even started to develop anything.  I have a vague
idea of
> what I want to do and I may not even be able to get it implemented by my
> managers.  BUT I have to try.  I would love to be involved in anything
that
> anyone has started even if only to give feedback.
>
> Hope that this is the sort of information that you need from me.  If not
then
> ask me some questions.
>
> :-)
>
> Bart


And then I sent

> G'Day Kenneth
>
> Further to my previous email
>
> What tasks do I want to do?
> -    record job requests
> -    track job requests
> -    provide feedback to job requester
> -    close job request
> -    enter additional data on job
> -    trends and histories
>
>
> I believe that the software requirements fall into natural "blocks".
>
>     - back end possibly one of the following
>             MySQL or similar, which would need someone knowledgeable to
drive
> it.
>             XML type file, which also would need someone to drive it.
>             ODBC compliant database file created by ??? software.
>             a simple file (poor choice)
>
>     - administration module, again one of the following
>             python based, or
>             browser based
>
>     - data entry
>             python based, or
>             browser based
>
>     - job request
>             browser based
>
> My thoughts are that I would use python for any machine based staff entry
and
> jython within the browser.
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Bart


the reply

> Bart, your response is so quick :-)... I would have the tasks in point
form
> we can follow easily
>
> -system design and spec.
> *this could start from the daily operations, we could then work out the
> process+data model
> -type of users for this system
> *internal university staff like
>     administration
>     users
> *external partner
>     contracts and agreement need to maintain in this system?
> -any data migration required from BEIMS
>
> -technology is not an issue, just need to consider
> --database (better neutral to db vendor)
> --python
> --xml output (depends on how you gonna work with your partners)
> --jpython (maybe next phase)
> --browser/standalone
>
> cheers, Kenneth
> --
> Kenneth Tsang
> email: smt at pacific.net.hk tel: +852 9468 4772
>

and then

> Bart,
> > What tasks do I want to do?
> > -    record job requests
> > -    track job requests
> > -    provide feedback to job requester
> > -    close job request
> > -    enter additional data on job
> > -    trends and histories
>
> This is exactly what we want, but we need to have the details more
specific,
> so we could work on the process model.
>
> cheers, Kenneth
> --
> Kenneth Tsang
> email: smt at pacific.net.hk tel: +852 9468 4772
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010821/5c75a5af/attachment.html>

From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sun Aug 19 21:26:31 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:26:31 GMT
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <3b7c6904$1_4@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910322E765BFArcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Doug Fort wrote:

> John Hunter wrote:
> 
>> I have a class member function that returns a member of that
>> class, namely a date class that returns 'tomorrow' 
>> 
>> from Trade import MyDate
>> 
>> d = MyDate()
>> #mdy is month/day/year as a string
>> print 'today is %s' % d.get_mdy()
>> print 'tomorrow is %s' % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy())
>> 
>> 
>> If I don't put the parens around 'd.get_tomorrow().get_mdy()' the
>> code hangs (totally frozen, no response to Ctrl-C on a linux box)
>> 
>> Does the % operator bind more tightly than the '.' operator?  Is
>> this expected? 
>> 
> The formatted string is looking for a tuple or a dictionary
> following the '%'. It's not a case of '%' binding more tightly than
> '.'. By using the parentheses you are converting the output of the
> function to a tuple. I'm not too hip to Python internals, but I
> suspect the interpreter is trying to get a tuple from the address
> of the get_mdy() member, rather than calling the function. I like
> to use the form ... % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy(),) to make it
> explicit that it's a tuple. 

That's not entirely right: the % formatting operator only needs a tuple 
if there are multiple arguments to be formatted. And the % operator has 
a lower priority than the . and () operator, I'm virtually (99% +) 
certain of that.

So it's a bit of a mystery. The parentheses shouldn't make any 
difference whatsoever, they do not make the expression into a tuple, as 
you suggested, the comma operator does that.

So the bug must be in Python (egad!), or by some strange coincidence 
your code crashed when you tried it without the parentheses, but later 
(or earlier) it worked, perhaps because you tinkered with it, or it 
could be that the time was different and thus the data you worked with 
too. I assume MyDate() makes an object with the current date/time? 
There could be critical values (time periods) for which there's no 
get_tomorrow(), so to speak. ;-) 


Robert Amesz


From support at internetdiscovery.com  Wed Aug 15 03:11:48 2001
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:11:48 GMT
Subject: Tkinter -- interpreter crashes in tcl in presence of threads?
References: <3B77E458.72E4206A@comlab.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3b7a20af.1291351@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:29:44 +0100, Bernard Sufrin
<Bernard.Sufrin at comlab.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

>I've been plagued, across two very different programs, a few variants of
>python (1.6, 2.0, 2.1.1) and tk with what look like tcl interpreter
>crashes during a python call to tcl at an unpredictable time during the
>execution of the program.
>
>The error report is always along the following lines:
>
>TclExecuteByteCode: done instruction at pc 4: stack top 0 != entry stack
>top -1
>  Source: "5067420callit"TclExecuteByteCode execution failure: end stack
>top != start stack top
>Abort

I've seen this error in pure Tk/Tcl, so it's not necessarily a Python
error. It means the Tcl intepreter got messed up on it's stack,
and no amount of user coding errors should end up with this.

I beleve the Tcl intepreter will be dead after this, so you can't
debug the procedure that was called (I think you would do:
	root.tk.eval('info body 5067420callit')
)
>The only thing the programs have in common is that they use threads as
>well as having a Tkinter mainloop active. In all the programs,
>invocation of Tk code is done via an agent thread (so there's no
>immediately apparent race for Tk resources between threads.).
>One of the programs is doing event simulation, the other provides the
>user-interface component of a proof assistant.

You may be best off leaving all Tk calls in the main thread.
Note that as of Python 2.0, Python has its own handcrafted thread
for Tk, with it's own specialized thread handling from the main
thread in _tkinter.c.

>In all cases I'm using the stock python libraries, and a stock tk/tcl
>setup. In other words I can't put this down to some imported (or
>self-written) extensions to the libraries.

The best hope is to upgrade to the latest stable Tk/Tcl - 8.3.3
and hope that solves it. If it's a Tcl interpreter eval bug, it will
get noticed in pure Tk, and should be fixed in due course.

>Can anyone shed any insight into this?
Sorry I can't help more, but you in essence you can't debug this.

Mike.


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 23 17:03:02 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 17:03:02 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <GIIvun.6EC@world.std.com> <3B851B30.296EFB6F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <upu9mqyk9.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> You're right, but we're saying the same thing.  I didn't say
> Pythonistas don't want improved speed, just that *relative*
> to other improvements, there is clearly little interest
> (*relatively* little) in speed improvements.  This is really
> just an observation over many postings in this newsgroup.

(...)

> Exactly *why* there is relatively little interest in improving
> the speed of raw Python.  We all realize a more effective way
> to gain speed improvements is to profile and then recode as
> a C extension if (and only if) absolutely necessary.
> 
> We like speed as much as the next group of programmers.  Just not,
> it seems, over many other factors we consider more important.

I think I'd phrase this a little differently - it's not so much that
we are trading off a desire for speed over a desire for other
improvements, but trading off the desire for speed against the
resources necessary to meet that desire.

That is, it's as much, if not more, a question of prudent use of
limited resources (I for one believe making significant compiler-like
increases in Python would require a very large resource effort) as
prioritization of features.

To that end, any perceived discrepancies between Python users and
Python developers may also be related to the relative appreciation or
weighting of that expected resource outlay, as opposed to any true
difference in desire for the speed improvement.  I as a user may
highly prize a faster Python, but I may not have accurately judged the
effort needed to meet my desire (and/or realize that even if a large
amount of effort is expended, the result may still fall far shy of my
goal and not really be much different than the status quo).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 11 21:56:59 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:56:59 -0400
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEDILFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but
> the change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be
> a bad incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this
> reason I'm going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into
> dir().
>
> although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim

[Paul Boddie]
> Absolutely not!

LOL -- "absolutely not" *what*?  It's absolutely not more consistent,
absolutely not more predictable, absolutely not an incompatibility, I
absolutely should not look at hacking backward-compatibility crud back into
dir(), or it's absolutely not the case that nothing can make everyone happy?

> ...
> Perhaps there should be a well-known and widely published way of doing
> this kind of thing, but dir is a well-known function. It's a shame
> about dir([])...

dir() may be well-known, but what it does isn't.  It was originally added
with dir(module) in mind, and nothing more than that -- just a shorthand for

def dir(x):
    k = x.__dict__.keys()
    k.sort()
    return k

That it did anything for objects that didn't have an explicit __dict__ is
due to layers of special-case hacks added over time, sucking in searches for
__methods__ and __members__ too (which are themselves ill-defined).

I like Guido's idea of having it return more instead of less, though.  In
any case, introspective needs vary too much by context to hope that a single
simple function will make everyone happy -- or even anyone happy all the
time.

and-it-is-a-shame-about-dir([])-otherwise-ly y'rs  - tim




From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Mon Aug 27 12:44:52 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:44:52 -0700
Subject: Compiling to include Tkinter/IDLE: HOWTO?
Message-ID: <cvtkotoh8g1l1bvkeef27e9c1nmn32dfv5@4ax.com>

I downloaded Python 2.2a2 and did a ./configure ./make in Linux 
(Mandrake 8.0 distro).  Errors had to do with not finding X11/X11.h
and therefore not installing _tkinter.  In the /usr/local/lib/python2.2 
directory, I also don't find IDLE (a Tk app).  I'm able to use the
resulting Python in terminal shell mode no prob.

Question:  what do I need to do to on my platform to compile a 
new Python with Tkinter usable, and IDLE as well?  When I install
the RPM from the distro, I get Python 2.0 with working IDLE, and
I'd like to have a similar setup for Python 2.2.

Kirby
Please cc: urnerk at qwest.net




From alberto at mindspring.com  Mon Aug 27 16:44:10 2001
From: alberto at mindspring.com (Al Gonzalez)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:44:10 -0400
Subject: bsddb for simple database [very basic]
References: <slrn9oit5s.b5f.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <9mebes01rnp@enews2.newsguy.com>

Not really an answer to your question about bsddb, but rather a suggestion.

Metakit is a very simple to use database that is more powerful than the
db modules.

example (from their docs):
import metakit
db = metakit.storage("datafile.mk",1)
Create a view (this is the MetaKit term for "table"):
vw = db.getas("people[first:S,last:S,shoesize:I]"
Add two rows (this is the MetaKit term for "record"):
vw.append(first='John',last='Lennon',shoesize=44)
vw.append(first='Flash',last='Gordon',shoesize=42)
Commit the changes to file:
db.commit()
Show a list of all people:
for r in vw: print r.first, r.last, r.shoesize
Show a list of all people, sorted by last name:
for r in vw.sort(vw.last): print r.first, r.last, r.shoesize
Show a list of all people with first name 'John':
for r in vw.select(first='John'): print r.first, r.last, r.shoesize

"Artur Skura" <arturs at iidea.pl> wrote in message
news:slrn9oit5s.b5f.arturs at aph.waw.pdi.net...
> I need very simple database functionality for a weblog.
>
> (Most things generally available are very heavy, require
> Potgres/MySQL/PHP/whatever - this one will be just a little boa+a couple
> of cgi scripts, very flexible and easy to maintain).
>
> I thought about using one of the standard db modules, like bsddb. (First
> thing i have found is that documentation is quite scarce. I've seen some
> examples of using marshal with bsddb, but this seems like too much now.)
>
> I need to set up a simple database:
>
> * key
> * name
> * date
> * comment
>
> What is the simplest way to do that?
>
> ...




From r.borkent at 123chello.nl  Thu Aug 23 15:01:43 2001
From: r.borkent at 123chello.nl (RonB)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:01:43 GMT
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
References: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper> <mailman.998588555.5777.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rqch7.224618$ef.6289412@Flipper>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     rb> I dont get what's going wrong here and my girlfriend realy wants
>     to rb> play solitaire on linux (and isn't to impressed with kpatience)
> 
> Sounds like you have other problems if your girlfriend wants to play
> solitaire. ;-)
> 
> Assuming there are .py files in the rpm you installed, you should be able
> to
> simply delete the .pyc files.  Python should rebuild them the next time
> the relevant modules are imported.
> 
thanx, got it working now, I think I'll wait telling my girlfriend though. 
I wont be able to come near the PC if she knows :-)

RB


From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug  1 11:13:54 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:13:54 GMT
Subject: Non-Programmers (was: Changing the Division Operator)
References: <mailman.996556736.30160.python-list@python.org> <m3k80piax2.fsf@kepler.ibp.de> <yoxbsm0kn95.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>
Message-ID: <slrn9mg782.13u.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <yoxbsm0kn95.fsf at karhu.tp.spt.fi>, Ville Vainio wrote:
> markus at kepler.ibp.de writes:
> 
>> We obviously need a good name.
>
> I think Perl people have used the term "accidental programmer" a while
> now (isn't it used in the Camel book?).

I thought that was because if a Perl program worked, it was
purely by accident...

[At least that's the way it happens for me when I use Perl.]

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm a GENIUS! I
                                  at               want to dispute sentence
                               visi.com            structure with SUSAN
                                                   SONTAG!!


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sun Aug 26 21:41:39 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:41:39 GMT
Subject: problem with pythonwin32
References: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <nzhi7.178122$g_3.31434653@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

In windows with PythonWin:
The script should have the extensin .pyw which associates it with
pythonW.exe which runs scripts without opening the console window.
Maan

"Paul Greer" <Paul.Greer1 at btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9mc3m3$jk3$1 at plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Might sound like a silly question but how do I get a script to run as a
> program from an Icon on windows. When ever I do the DOS box opens and
> immediately closes.
>
> the same in linux I change the py file with chmod -x  and set the path but
i
> cant seem to get the program to run by just typing the name?
>
> Id appreciate the help
>
>




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug 22 04:22:19 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:22:19 +0200
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:43:33 BST."
             <9lvnv3$1g9$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> 
Message-ID: <m15ZTHI-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote:

> Christian Tanzer:
> > I'd rather use:
> >
> >    try:
> >        somemodule.func(p1, p2, p3)
> >    except somemodule.Error_foo, msg :
> >        print msg
> >        ...
> >    except somemodule.Error_bar, msg :
> >        ...
> >    ### no need for raise anymore
> 
> Turns out that in my code that this is rare.  Modules only need
> at most a couple of different exceptions.
> 
> Plus, there are some times where it's hard to make a subclass
> for each exception.  Consider the IOError exceptions raised
> by open.  Replacing the errno by a subclass for each value
> (and how many values are there?) makes things less readable, IMHO.

`how many values are there?` is the key question here.

Do you really find a named exception less readable than an arbitrary
numeric value? [If you start naming the arbitrary values you could
just as well define different exception classes for each.]

I'd strongly prefer a IOError exception hierarchy with one exception
class for each different errno value to the current situation. You
could still catch IOError, but you could also just catch the odd
DeviceFull or PermissionDenied exception and leave all others to your
caller. 

> But you did say "rather use:", which I'll expand to "rather use,
> when it makes sense:" :)

Your expansion fits my intent -- only I can't think of a situation
where an exception class with many different error codes make sense
<wink>. The only argument in favor of it is that it saves a tiny bit
of effort for the implementer. That saving is counteracted by the
increased effort each of the clients have to expend. In sum, huge
amounts of effort are wasted.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Tue Aug 14 10:25:01 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:25:01 +0200
Subject: using setDefault
References: <3B78FBC7.4080908@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <012a01c124cd$077135c0$fcbd6ac2@zko>

From: Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk>

> I am updating some of my older code to use the setdefault dictionary 
> method. Where I had code saying:
> 
> if dict.has_key(x):
> dict[x].append(y)
> else:
> dict[x] = [y]
> 
> now I smile and say:
> 
> dict.setdefault(x, []).append(y)
> 
> 
> very nice. I am wondering if this approach can be adapted to a situation 
> where you are merging two dictionaries. So currently I have a situation 
> where for example:
> 
> for x in a.keys():
> if b.has_key(x):
> for item in a[x]: 
> try:
> b[x].index(item)
> except ValueError:
> b[x].append(item)
> else:
> b[x] = a[x]
> 
> 
> I can't see how that can be rewritten, but I have a feeling there is 
> prossibly a better way
> 

I'd write that:

for x in a.keys():
  item = b.setdefault(x,[])
  item += [y for y in a[x] if y not in item]

Difference from orginal: 
  copying from a when not b.has_key(x)
  missing check for uniquenes in a[x]

not-fastest-not-shortest-ly-y'rs,
gzeljko











From pibble at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 15:01:38 2001
From: pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:01:38 -0700
Subject: PyXML DOM question: adding the DOCTYPE
Message-ID: <1136f745.0108131101.20211496@posting.google.com>

Hi all.

I'm building XML documents in Python 2.1 using xml.dom.minidom.

Everything is peachy keen with the output except one thing: I need a
<!DOCTYPE> meta-element at the top of the document, and I can't seem
to get minidom to include this.  The scanty documentation provides few
clues for this puzzle.

I'm using a DocumentType object received from createDocumentType, and
I specify the DTD in that, but it doesn't want to create a DOCTYPE
element in the final output.

Am I going to have to do something ugly and hackish like manually
inserting my <!DOCTYPE> in my final XML string with a regular
expression? Bah... there has to be a better way!!

thanks,
Preston

from xml.dom import minidom

# DO == DocumentObjectModel Implementation object
DO = minidom.getDOMImplementation()

# DT == Document Type object
DT = DO.createDocumentType('JxRule', '', 'jxrule.dtd')
		
doc = DO.createDocument("http://journyx.com/xml", "JxRule", DT)

...

print doc.toxml()


From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Thu Aug 23 04:36:35 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 08:36:35 GMT
Subject: Am lost in ObjetLand... (BaseHTTPServer class hierarchy)
References: <Xns9105B9AA19A20PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <QDXg7.126344$EP6.34901106@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91066C3A1BF2BPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> said :

> You can create your own instance of BaseHTTPRequestHandler in the test
> function and then call that method on it, but it will not be the same
> instance as the one used by ServerClass.  Take a look at
> HTTPServer.__init__ to see what it does with the Handler Class.  Then
> search for "date_time_string" to see if it ever calls that method.

Hmm, a "fugitive" instance just to get at the method, didn't think of that, 
must try...
It may even be the only way in this case, because it seems to me that such 
an instance is created for each http request, so there isn't one 
"persistent" instance to get at... or maybe I'm just not good enough at 
backtracking through the class maze :-)

Thanks for the tip anyway,
fp

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug  5 15:40:17 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:40:17 -0500
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
In-Reply-To: <tc5rmtseqidi4h1f4j9uct0c9hm4tudpum@4ax.com>
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com>
        <fg7jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
        <tc5rmtseqidi4h1f4j9uct0c9hm4tudpum@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15213.41249.509910.412785@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> #!/usr/bin/env python
    >> print "Status-Code: 301"                        # Moved permanently
    >> print "Location: http://www.rfceditor.org/"     # New location
    >> print ""                                        # Newline ends HTTP header

    Tom> Coming from a perl background I was surprised there isn't a header
    Tom> building function in the cgi module ... any reason behind this, or
    Tom> did they just not think of it?

The cgi module concerns itself with processing client-side input, not
building server-side output.  I guess nobody thought generating the
necessary headers was all that big a deal.  Some modules do concern
themselves with their little niche.  For example, the Cookie module knows
how to generate Set-Cookie HTTP headers.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mkhan12 at kornet.net  Thu Aug 30 19:43:12 2001
From: mkhan12 at kornet.net (???)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:43:12 +0900
Subject: How to change Windows Environment Variable
In-Reply-To: <3B8E62DC.4090305@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOCELICCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>

Dear all,

How to change environment variable on Windows NT or 2000 by python?

In Visual Basic case can setting as below:

Private Declare Function GetEnvironmentVariable Lib "kernel32" _
    Alias "GetEnvironmentVariableA" (ByVal lpName As String, _
    ByVal lpBuffer As String, ByVal nSize As Long) As Long

Private Declare Function SetEnvironmentVariable Lib "kernel32" _
    Alias "SetEnvironmentVariableA" (ByVal lpName As String, _
    ByVal lpValue As String) As Long

I will waiting for good news.
Thanks.
MyeongKi Han
----------------------------------------------
MyeongKi Han 
Section Manager, Hull Part, CAD Unification Team
DAEWOO Shipbuilding & Margin Engineering Co., Ltd.
1, Aju-Dong, Koje-Si, Kyungnam, 656-714, Rep. of Korea
Tel: +82 55 680 4039,    Fax: +82 55 680 2142
Mobile: +82 17 857 5844, E-mail: mkhan at dwship.com
Web: http://www.daewooshipbuilding.co.kr

-----Original Message-----
From: activepython-admin at listserv.ActiveState.com [mailto:activepython-admin at listserv.ActiveState.com]On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 12:59 AM
To: printers at sendme.cz
Cc: python-list at python.org; activepython at listserv.ActiveState.com; tutor at python.org
Subject: Re: [Tutor] Is Python powerful enough for this?

A wrote:

> Hi,
> I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input
> fields and also some hidden fields.
> How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
> like
> Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3
>
> For example:
> I have a following web page
> <html>
>
> <head>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form method="POST" action="c.cgi">
>   <p><input type="text" name="T1" size="20"></p>
>   <p><input type="checkbox" name="C1" value="ON"></p>
>   <p><textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="20"></textarea></p>
>   <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" name="B1"><input
> type="reset" value="Reset" name="B2"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
>
>>From the above
> I would like to receive
> T1=&S1=&C1=&B1=Submit
>
>
> Thank you for help.
> Ladislav
>


I've got an example of one way to do this sort of thing here:

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/uselesspython1.html

It's the bottom entry on the page, labeled: "Useless Comment System". It
consists of a working example, and you can view all the Python and HTML.

Rob
--
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python

_______________________________________________
ActivePython mailing list
ActivePython at listserv.ActiveState.com
http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/listinfo/activepython 

From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sat Aug 11 12:20:24 2001
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:20:24 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyQt v2.5 for Windows and UNIX
Message-ID: <3B755B48.E42D1C3E@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

PyQt v2.5 for Windows and UNIX is available at the project website at
http://www.thekompany.com/projects/pykde/.

PyQt is a comprehensive set of bindings (approx. 230 classes) for the
cross-platform Qt GUI toolkit from Trolltech. It includes the pyuic
utility which generates Python code from the GPL'ed Qt Designer user
interface designer.

PyQt v2.5 includes a Windows binary package for the non-commercial
edition of Qt. Under this license Qt can be used free of charge on
Windows in a non-commercial environment or for evaluation purposes in a
commercial environment.

Other highlights of this release include...

- The qtgl module that adds support for Qt's OpenGL classes.

- The addition of the QDom XML classes.

See the ChangeLog for a detailed list of changes.

Phil



From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug  1 18:27:54 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108011510420.25984-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

> You didn't respond to my comments on potential for performance gains.  Can I
> assume that I scored a point?  ;-)

Sure! I agree that there's the potential for some gains, but the value of
that is so dependent on what you're doing so I stuck to things more
general.  I'm all for performance improvements, but performance (in the
CPU sense) isn't what draws me to Python and keeps me here. For me, most
programs aren't performance critical, and those that are usually aren't
CPU-bound (but disk, memory, network, etc.), and the CPU-bound ones
usually have a small performance-critical core that can easily be moved to
C.

Also, before optimizing any code you should be fairly sure that the
potential payoff is worth the trouble/risk, and that the thing you're
optimizing is one of the biggest bottlenecks (fry the biggest fish). I
don't know either is true here.

I'm sure there's many benefits to strict compile-time type checking (for
example, it makes the language more appealing to developers like yourself
who want that feature). My interest has been in finding the most valuable,
most compelling reason for adding it to Python, something that would make
me better understand the fuss. ;-)

-Dave




From peter.milliken at gtech.com  Wed Aug  8 17:54:47 2001
From: peter.milliken at gtech.com (Peter Milliken)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:54:47 +1000
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a> <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <9ksck1$jmf3@news1.gtech.com>

Since you are trolling for what Emacs can do for Python programming - what
about language sensitive editting (LSE) support? aka templates. Emacs has
several packages that ease the generation of writing code - writing code,
when you come right down to it look very similar to filling in a form, the
biggest difference is that eash line in a code file provides a selection of
a different "form" to fill in e.g. the following class structure and if
statement are both "forms" where the user fills in the variable names etc in
the "fields" delineated by {} or []'s - some of these are further menus that
allow selection of yet other "forms"

class {classname} [inheritance] :
  [init_def]

  [class_funcdef]...

   if {expression}:
     {statement}...
   [elif_part]...
   [else_part]

Why force wear and tear on those fingers continually typing in character
sequences such as "if", "class", "def", ":" etc etc when you can get the
editor to do it for you? You can also achieve code "abbreviations" with
these same packages i.e.

  if<some-function-key> expands to:

     if {expression}:
     {statement}...
   [elif_part]...
   [else_part]

navigation between the "placeholders" (strings enclosed by {}'s or []'s) are
simple commands. Once with these constructs then just start typing, the
Emacs packages deletes the placeholder text and replaces it with your
automatically i.e.if you typed "age == 10" when the cursor was within the
"{expression}" placeholder of the above if statement then Emacs would give
you this:

   if age == 10:
     {statement}...
   [elif_part]...
   [else_part]

Emacs comes bundled with two such facilities - skeleton and tempo. A further
LSE is one that I have authored and upon which the above examples are based.
This one is called ELSE (Emacs Language Sensitive Editor :-)). All of these
packages are "independent" of the language being generated, all you have to
do is find a set of templates for *your* language. Of course, the various
packages are differ in their ease of use, many major mode maintainers use
skeleton.el (that way when a user downloads their major mode then they don't
have to bundle any other package). Skeleton and tempo are (in my opinion
:-)) harder to use because when you generate a construct they force you
through a question/asnwer session in the mini-buffer before they generate
the desired code - ELSE generates the code much more simply (as shown above)
and provides the advantages of "persistence" across edit session which the
others don't i.e. generate a code template with skeleton and you have to
fill it *all* in *now* wherease ELSE leaves the placeholder strings in the
buffer - you can "fill them in" any time you like :-).

ELSE comes with templates for Python. I am not aware of any templates for
Python using skeleton or tempo, although they are not terribly hard to
generate.

To give you a further flavour for ELSE and some Python templates, have a
look at http://members.nbci.com/pmilliken/ - Note that the Python templates
shown here are a very, very early version and don't conform to some of the
Python coding conventions. I am currently moving sites, so what you find
here is somewhat out of date. If anyone is interested in pursuing past this
point then just send an email and I will send the latest version of
else-mode.el and the Python templates.

Regards,
Peter

"Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000 at cc489744-a...
>
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> >
> > >         You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> > > mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was
> > > modal.
> > > Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get
> > > syntax
> > > highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What
> > > more
> > > could you want?
> >
> > So use it if you like it.  No one's forcing you.
>
> Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to (or
> at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a Python
> environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
> second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
> code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody know
> of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables Python
> stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
>
> (note:  I had another reason for sending the last one, I wanted to know
> what else Emacs in Python mode could do.)
>
>
> --
>      Whenever a computer is booted into Windoze - a penguin dies of a
>      broken heart.
>                -- Steve Baker
>
>     /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
>    /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
>    \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
>     \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/
>




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Tue Aug 14 21:59:27 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 01:59:27 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lbpcg$h5q$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9lcl1v$jno$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Andrew Dalke <dalke at acm.org> wrote:
[snip]
> I want to point out that the current ("old-style") behaviour is
> very usful for caching results.

Just wanted to chip in to say that this style of caching is pretty nice;
I just used it in a project of mine in the same way.

Some alternative in the future system to regain the speed benefits of
this would be nice.

Regards,

Martijn



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 16:18:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:18:16 +0200
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9kpeft$kbm$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9kpif7027e@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:9kpeft$kbm$1 at slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
    ...
> tweak the class definitions in-place.  She chose Tcl (with an
> object extension) over Python because Python's ability to add
> new methods is not obvious[*] and because existing instances
> are not updated with the new class definitions

If you want existing instances to NOT be changed, in Python,
just leave the existing class object alone and build a new one.
E.g,
class theclass(theclass): pass
and now you can tweak (the new object bound to name)
theclass without altering any existing instances (if some
existing instance is of a class derived from theclass, and
that derived class uses the theclass.whatever(self) way to
call base class methods, you COULD get surprises though:).


Alex





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug 15 09:31:51 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:31:51 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:37:46 EDT."
             <200108131137.HAA17621@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <m15X0lz-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> > I'd like to support the proposal of Glyph and Alex to make 0 the
> > default for `__dynamic__`. IMHO, optimization should be restricted to
> > those few modules where it is really necessary.
> 
> See my response earlier in this thread.

I read that and was not convinced. I'll try to explain why.

Unless one has a time machine, the most important property of a
program is being able to evolve. Lack of evolvability means its hard
to fix bugs, its hard to refactor to improve reusability, its harder
to satisfy new requirements...

As one can't know which part(s) of a program will need to be changed,
its best to try to keep them all changeable. One means to do that is
to do bindings as late as possible and to allow rebindings at
run-time. This hurts performance wise but results in better software.
As most of the code won't be performance critical anyway the
performance hit might be negligable and it should be easy to optimize
the hot spots by making them less dynamic if necessary. 

The current dynamicism of Python allows late bindings and even
rebindings at run-time. Just one example where Python really saved my
day: a customer uses a frozen Python program. After a while, he
decides that he wants something done slightly differently. Even if I
think the request unreasonable I can easily send him a tiny script
which changes one method in the frozen application to do what the
customer wants. With no dynamicism as default this wouldn't be
possible. Of course, I could have created a customer-specific version
of the application -- the effort would have been days instead of
twenty minutes plus an extra branch in the code (instant killer of any 
such proposal). 

There is yet another aspect to this. If a language forces you to
choose between performance and flexibility at design-time it eases the
work of the language implementer but at the same time makes the life
of all language users much more difficult. If you want to keep your
code flexible and/or reusable you forgo performance -- the language
will not try to optimize the flexible code. If you decide to choose
performance, later changes might be much more difficult and on top end
up with poor performance.

> > Dynamicity is one of the really strong points of Python -- eye popping
> > as Glyph just called it.
> 
> Eye popping can be a negative point too.  I'd prefer a warning before
> my eyes are popped.

:-)

> > I wouldn't mind if I had to ask for some dynamic features more
> > explicitly than now but I'd really be hard hit if they went away
> > entirely. I'd love to get better performance but not at the price of
> > loosing all this dynamicism. I if wanted to use a non-dynamic language
> > I'd know way too many candidates vying to make my life unhappy <0.1
> > wink>
> 
> Some people like Python for its extreme dynamicism.  But there are
> other languages in that niche (like Lisp).

IMO, those aren't really contenders (certainly not Lisp [for me]).
Python is just the right thing: simple, readable, maintainable,
dynamic. (And the dynamicism can help to make the code more
maintainable). 

> Most people like Python
> because it's so darn readable and maintainable.  Unbridled dynamicism
> goes against that. I am striving for a balance that allows most forms
> of dynamicism, but requires a declaration in advanced for the more
> extreme kinds.

Agreed.

> > Maybe module objects could even grow `get-set` magic in the process
> > <duck>.
> 
> You probably don't realize it, but you can write modules with get/set
> magic now, by stuffing an instance in sys.modules[__name__].

Maybe the intended <wink> was too implicit in my mail?

I knew about putting instances into the module dictionary -- somebody
borught that up on c.l.py. a few months ago. As this is not a
documented feature (IIRC), I would have been worried about using it,
though.

Hope-this-didn't-add-to-the-flames, y'rs

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 15 04:17:05 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:17:05 +1000
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <01081518170501.01385@ike>

On Wednesday 15 August 2001 17:59, Paul Rubin wrote:
> kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> writes:
> > > 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> > > real and imaginary parts separately?
> > >
> > >>> a = 3+4j
> > >>> dir(a)
> >
> > ['conjugate', 'imag', 'real']
> >
> > >>> a.imag
>
> Thanks.  Can you tell me if that's documented anywhere?
>
>   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesnumeric.html
>
> describes the conjugate() operation but not the real or imag members.
> I'd like to report that as a deficiency in the documentation.

It's right there in the second paragraph... 

'''Complex numbers have a real and imaginary part, which are both implemented 
using double in C. To extract these parts from a complex number z, use z.real 
and z.imag.'''


> Here's another dumb question, about the for loop: if I want to add
> up the first 100 numbers in the naive way, am I really supposed to say
>
>    sum = 0
>    for i in range(101) :
>      sum = sum + i
>
> and if I say that, will range(101) really malloc up and populate an
> array of length 100? 

You could use xrange, which won't malloc the list.


    Richard



From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Sat Aug 25 18:44:31 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:44:31 GMT
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.998776238.11776.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.998776238.11776.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251735580.6345-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> 
> > Hi python people -
> > 	I was trying to find a gfx package for Python, and I tried it.
> > I have python aliased to /usr/local/bin/python2.1 and running python on
> > their examples said it couldn't find the module gtk.  But after
> > unalias-ing it, they worked, and it is cool!  I would rather use
> > Python2.1 if I can, but I don't use it's features, so I don't care much.
> > But, do other people use PyGTK with 2.1?
> 
> Back in November 2000 a very similar question was asked on the PyGTK mailing
> list, except it was with Python 2.0. The answer was basically "recompile it
> with the newer version of Python". Try that and see if it works.

After it didn't work the first time, I immediately recompiled.  ie, I
did ./configure; make; sudo make install again and it still didn't work.

> OTOH, it may be that the PyGTK libraries only exist in your Python 1.5
> site-packages directory. Check that, but I suggest the recompile.

I imagine that's what it is.  Sorry for my ignorance, but how do I check
it?


-- 
     I always wondered about the meaning of life. so I looked it up in
     the dictionary under "L" and there is was - the meaning of life.
     It was not what I had expected.
               -- Dogbert

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From teo at crepido.com  Wed Aug  1 10:25:45 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 07:25:45 -0700
Subject: Trouble with curses module in terminalemulator
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108010625.1a2161fd@posting.google.com>

Hi all! 

When i try to catch curses.KEY_ENTER, for example, getch() returns
something completley diffrent :)
well, i'll give you my code and explains below.

----------------------------------
import curses

curses.initscr()
win = curses.newwin(0,0,0,0)
win.keypad(1)
win.refresh()

while 1:
  ch = win.getch()
  if ch == curses.KEY_ENTER:
    win.addstr(10,10,"Enter pressed")
    win.refresh()

-------------------------------------

The strange thing is, that other constants work, for example
curses.KEY_RESIZE, but no "keyboard-keys"(enter, tab, backspace)

When i run my application in pure textmode (no X server), it works,
but when i run my app in a terminalemulator, the mapping of the keys
failes.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Teodor


From akaspick at sympatico.ca  Sat Aug  4 21:00:03 2001
From: akaspick at sympatico.ca (Andrew)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 21:00:03 -0400
Subject: TKinter question (hiding the main window)
Message-ID: <DQ0b7.74771$Q13.4979011@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hello,

I'm new to python and tkinter and have a quick question.  In the following
code I want the file dialog to show, but not the main tkinter window that is
displayed.  The code sample is the only way I was able to get things to work
so far.

Thanks,
Andrew


from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

fileName = askopenfilename()

root.mainloop()




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 29 01:37:06 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:37:06 +1000
Subject: Necessary Python stuff on Sun
In-Reply-To: <VR_i7.2756$aC1.287578@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <VR_i7.2756$aC1.287578@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01082915370601.01438@ike>

On Wednesday 29 August 2001 15:13, Doug Farrell wrote:
> For various reasons I put the Python source tar file in /usr/local/bin on
> my Sun Solaris 2.6 machine in order to compile it and get it running. Now
> I've got it running and I'd like to move the necessary libaries and runtime
> stuff to another machine. First off can anyone tell me if putting the
> source tar file in /usr/local/bin was a bad idea and if so why?

Convention dictates that you put source in /usr/local/src and compile there. 
At the end of the build process, you use "make install" to have all the 
install files copied to their appropriate places (/usr/local/bin, 
/usr/local/lib, etc). The build process is described in the README that comes 
with the source tar. 


> Now that it's
> done, how can I extract just the stuff I need to run Python on another
> Solaris 2.6 machine?

You should be able to copy the source tree (that which was untarred from the 
source tar file) and all the bits and pieces under that tree to the other 
machine and use "make install" there to install it. It's probably safer to 
actually rebuild from scratch on the other machine though, unless the 
hardware and operating system is identical.


    Richard



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:13:20 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:13:20 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kg79r029r9@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn at 4ax.com...
    ...
> I believe that there is a sort of Occam's Razor of Coding, as it were,
> where given two different programs which execute identically, the one
> which is shorter, simpler, and easier to understand is the better
> program, notwithstanding any principles it may or may not adhere to.

Great insight, except I think you've forgotten "easier to test, modify,
refactor".  As user-stories change all the time, we need to be able
to change our programs -- that is were the simplicity & matter most,
actually -- and test to ensure our changes don't break things.


> Various different rules which have crept up over the years such as
> "don't use global variables," and "practice strong encapsulation,"
> and so forth are all only distractions and are useless to the degree
> that in any particular context they don't satisfy Sir Occam's relentless
> blade.

Except that they often promote ease of testing, modification and
refactoring.  That is what gives them value.


Alex





From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug  2 12:21:23 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:21:23 GMT
Subject: Zope
References: <08da7.3095$e%4.90891@news3.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <76fa7.61675$EP6.14489624@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"> I've resently begun to learn Zope (and therefore Phyton).

I've seen this 'misspelling' before.  Is it a nordic version of
Python?

>My question: Is  there any newsgroup aimed at Zope?

Believe not.  The mailing list is available thru zope.org.





From toflat at tdl.com  Thu Aug 30 19:14:02 2001
From: toflat at tdl.com (toflat at tdl.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:14:02 -0700
Subject: Extreme newbie.. looking for a push in the right direction. Need to 
 find text in a file and then display
References: <3B8C5725@twigger.nl>
Message-ID: <3B8EC8B9.F3735E25@tdl.com>

Hi Hans,

Thanks so much for your help. Your code has definitely pointed me in the right
direction, just like I asked for. Now I'm starting to "get it"......

I'm still having a few problems, most notably having the script continue to print
out lines until it sees the end tag. But I'll get it. This is mostly a learning
exercise for me and I am certainly learning. Your code has definitely given me
things to think about and pointed me to the relevant areas in the Python Docs. I
actually think I'll be able to learn more from this little project and your
starter script, than I ever could have from a book or class!

_Thanks!
-T

Hans Nowak wrote:

> >===== Original Message From toflatpy2 at oaktown.org (toflat) =====
> >Hey There,
> >
> >I still pretty new to this and hope this question isn't too lame. I've
> >been digging around ( and learning) the documentation but just can
> >figure out how to do this.
> >
> >I have a file with a repeating predictable format.
> >
> >ie:
> >
> ><name>
> >fname lname
> >1
> >name
> >address
> >whatever
> >yada..
> ></end name> 12345
> >
> >So.. the record format is always:
> >Line 1. opening <name> tag
> >Line 2. record title (most often a first and last name) the opening
> ><name> tag, Line 3. a number (this number has no significance)
> >Lines 4-?. the record information.
> >Last Line. </end name> 12345
> >
> >I would like to write a script to search the file for a name and then
> >display the record.
> >
> >So it would...
> >A> search for the name (record title).
> >B> upon finding a match, the line containing the match is saved
> >(record title)
> >B> replace this number with a blank line in results
> >C> each following line is saved (added to record) up to but not
> >including...
> >D> the end marker (</end name> 12345)
> >
> >The script then displays the result to the terminal
> >
> >ex:
> >
> >searching the file for a record with "o'maley" in the title.
> >source file:
> >
> ><name>
> >Frank O'Maley
> >1
> >Frank O'Maley
> >1234 VeryDark Alley
> >Dublin, Ireland
> >011 123 45 45 9
> >yada yada
> ></end name> 12345
> >
> >Would return:
> >
> >Frank O'Maley
> >
> >Frank O'Maley
> >1234 VeryDark Alley
> >Dublin, Ireland
> >011 123 45 45 9
> >yada yada
> >
> >This is I've been pouring over the documentation and think I
> >understand how to use
> >the re module to find what I'm looking for. However I'm at a loss when
> >it come to
> >actually using what it finds. I don't know how I can get it to save
> >the line that contains
> >the search result. And I do not know how to get it to keep adding
> >lines (and modifying) until
> >it comes to the end marker.
>
> You probably won't need the re module. First you need to find <name> tags;
> this can be done by looping over the list of lines and ignoring everything but
> the tag. Upon finding one, you read the next line (which contains the first
> and last name) and check it for the name you're looking for.
>
> A very crude example to get you going:
>
> f = open("file", "rb")
> lines = f.readlines()
> f.close()
>
> for i in range(len(lines)):
>     line = lines[i]
>     if line.strip() == "<name>":
>         # Aha, found one
>         nextline = lines[i+1]
>         if match(line, NAME):
>             # this record starts at line i, which can be saved
>             # print the rest of the lines
>
> You will have to write the match function yourself, because I don't know
> exactly on what criteria you are searching and matching. Here's a simple
> example:
>
> >>> import string
> >>> def match(line, name):
>         idx = string.find(line.lower(), name.lower())
>         return (idx >= 0)
>
> >>> match("Fred O'Hara", "o'hara")
> 1
> >>> match("John McDouglas", "dougie")
> 0
>
> (Yes, I like to mix the string module and string methods, aside... ;-)
>
> HTH,
>
> --Hans Nowak




From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 31 15:32:36 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:32:36 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9ovpna.qb9.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <gZQj7.55$j9.417 at castor.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> This site about tkinter really sucks!

That's it, unless you can be a little more polite, I'm done
trying to help you.  You're on your own.

Bye.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. If I cover this
                                  at               entire WALL with MAZOLA,
                               visi.com            wdo I have to give my AGENT
                                                   ten per cent??


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 19:26:55 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:26:55 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <9l8saq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg> <3B77FF02.F2B5A90@alcyone.com> <9lbdjj$f0b$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <3B79B3BF.BC3F09DF@engcorp.com>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> 
> According to Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com>:
> > Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> > >     self.state = 1 - self.state
> >
> > Why not just
> >
> >       self.state = not self.state
> 
> Good point. "x = 1 - x" was what I used back in the days when I first
> encountered programming and Basic. Does "x = not x" work in Basic? I no
> longer remember... (Presumably so.)

I don't really remember, but like you I used that only back
in the days of BASIC.  I think BASIC would often use -1 for
TRUE, so I don't remember whether x = 1 - x really produced 
values that were testable as booleans, or whether we always
had to make it explicit with "IF x = 1 THEN GOSUB 1000".
Does that mean BASIC had the "better explicit than implicit"
part of Python years before?  Guido stole from BASIC!  The nerve!
;)
-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 05:17:40 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:17:40 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <998406891.451155@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>
Message-ID: <1452000.a2XM6RcZxF@lunix.schabi.de>

Burkhard Kloss <bk at xk7.com> schrub:

>> Is there a way to loop through the keys of a dictionary (whitout
>> using a list containing all those keys)?
>>
>> e.g. mydict = {'123':[1,9,13],'125':[6,8],'225':[5]}
> for key in mydict.keys():
>     print key, mydict [key]
> 
> should do the trick

It does, but

>>> for key,value in mydict.items():
...     print key, value

seems to be faster in my eyes, as it doesn't have a dictionary lookup 
every round.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 15 11:58:42 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:58:42 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997868309.21900.python-list@python.org> <7xlmklqybf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2160391.5MMGUR32xa@lunix.schabi.de>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> schrub:
 
> Oh cool.  Thanks.  Btw, is there any reason for the apparently
> unnecessary complex contagion as soon as you touch cmath?  For
> example, cmath.sqrt(1) is 1+0j instead of 1.0.  

>>> 1 == 1+0j
1

So it's the same, no problem :-)

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 31 06:38:39 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:38:39 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Is Python powerful enough for this?
In-Reply-To: <3B8F7BBE.2900.D2597E@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108311406100.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, A wrote:

> On 30 Aug 2001, at 17:36, Roman Suzi wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, A wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > > I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input 
> > > fields and also some hidden fields. 
> > > How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
> > > like
> > > Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3
> > > 
> > > For example:
> > > I have a following web page
> > > <html>
> > > 
> > > <head>
> > > </head>
> > > <body>
> > > <form method="POST" action="c.cgi">
> > >   <p><input type="text" name="T1" size="20"></p>
> > >   <p><input type="checkbox" name="C1" value="ON"></p>
> > >   <p><textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="20"></textarea></p>
> > >   <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" name="B1"><input 
> > > type="reset" value="Reset" name="B2"></p>
> > > </form>
> > > </body>
> > > </html>
> > > 
> > > >From the above 
> > > I would like to receive 
> > > T1=&S1=&C1=&B1=Submit
> > 
> > I do not follow what are you trying to do?
> > 
> > Do you need to convert HTML input into corresponding urlencoded
> > output as if the form were filled empty?
> Yes.
> > 
> > For this you can make your htmllib.HTMLParser and make handlers for
> > form-specific tags. (In fact, sgmllib.SGMLParser is even easier to use for
> > this task).
> Can you please give an example? I am a newbie with Python

import sgmllib, urllib
example = """ <form><input name="aaa" value="bbb"     </form>"""
class FormParser(sgmllib.SGMLParser):
  def __init__(self):
    sgmllib.SGMLParser.__init__(self)
    self._record = 0
    self._form = {}
  def __str__(self):
    return urllib.urlencode(self._form)
  def start_form(self, atts):
    attdict = self._attdict(atts)
    self._record = 1
  def end_form(self):
    self._record = 0
  def _attdict(self, atts):
    attdict = {}
    for attname, attval in atts:
      attdict[attname] = attval
    return attdict

  def start_input(self, atts):
    if self._record:
      attdict = self._attdict(atts)
      if attdict.has_key("name"):
        name = attdict["name"]
        if attdict.has_key("value"):
          self._form[name] = attdict["value"]
        else:
          self._form[name] = ""
  start_select = start_textarea = start_input
f = FormParser()
f.feed(example)
print str(f)
 
> > And what if there are several forms on the page?
> There should be only one.
> 
> >  
>  Thank you for help.
>  Ladislav

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From revyakag at umdnj.edu  Mon Aug 13 14:42:54 2001
From: revyakag at umdnj.edu (Andrey Revyakin)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:42:54 -0400
Subject: passing data from PHP to python
References: <3B770257.4C60823F@umdnj.edu> <mailman.997656500.27850.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B781FAE.CC20848D@umdnj.edu>

Yep, I eventually figured it out! Thanks!

Andrey.

Kalle Svensson wrote:

> [Andrey Revyakin]
> > I would like to exe a python module from php.
> > In the simpliest case, I have a "test.py" file like this:
> >
> > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> > print "test"
> >
> > and I call it from php like this
> >
> > system("python test.py");
> >
> > Works fine. Now, what if I need to pass an argument from php to the
> > "test.py" module? How do I do that?
>
> system("python test.py arg");
> might work.
>
> Peace,
>   Kalle
> --
> [  kalle at gnupung.net  ][ Thought control, brought to you by the WIPO! ]
> [ http://gnupung.net/ ][ http://anti-dmca.org/ http://eurorights.org/ ]



From rob at jam.rr.com  Wed Aug 15 00:14:40 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:14:40 GMT
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
References: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <3B79F6DD.AB574ED0@jam.rr.com>

S11001001 wrote:
> 
> I am only a newbie to python, a perl refugee, in fact. I need a DOWNLOADABLE,
> as in one tarball or something, tutorial employing DESCRIPTION. I cannot leave
> the internet connection running as I page through the tutorial at python.org,
> so I can't go that route. Once I get kernel 2.2.5, I will be able to do
> Internet in Linux, so it will probably be alright. But I prefer to learn
> offline.
> 
> --
> Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an
> intellectual property sense to everything it touches.
>      Steve Ballmer

http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/ is the location of Alan Gauld's
*Learning to Program* tutorial, which may be downloaded. It's spiffy.

Rob
-- 
Got Newbies?
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 10 23:09:02 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:09:02 GMT
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <uelqjr56g.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <il1d7.91899$EP6.22384913@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

 Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:
 > If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled,
we
 > can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition
against
 > breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is
not a
 > silent break.

If you do this, which might well be for the greater good ..., two
suggestions:

1. a global (wrt directory subtree) search/replace program based on
walk/tokenize.
(you could make provision thereof a condition for yield as default)

2. a noisy break - on Syntax error from misuse of yield: "yield is now
a keyword.  If you were trying to use it as a variable name, use
something else instead."


Terry J. Reedy





From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 19 00:13:33 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:13:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Method and getattr wierdness in a C extension
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108172345370.4479-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108190012110.17808-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> I'm building a Python 1.5 module for libxml2 (not so much for public
> consumption so much as to teach myself both libxml2 and Python extensions) and
> I'm coming across something odd.
>
>   [snip]
>
> Here's what I'm getting at the prompt:
>
> ---
> >>> doc.copy(123)
> <xmlDocument at 80f4fc0>
> >>> doc.copy(123)
> TypeError: function requires exactly 0 arguments; 1 given
> >>> doc.copy(123)
> <xmlDocument at 80eac00>
> >>> doc.copy(123)
> TypeError: function requires exactly 0 arguments; 1 given
> >>>
> ---
>
> Why is it alternating between working and not working?

Never mind, I just solved it as follows:

   ...
  if (PyTuple_Size(args))
  {
    PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "function requires no arguments");
    return NULL;
  };
   ...

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From patton at fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de  Wed Aug 29 05:50:29 2001
From: patton at fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de (Brian Patton)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:50:29 +0200
Subject: file.read Problem
References: <mailman.999059083.8391.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8CBAE5.E1AA5182@fred.physik.uni-dortmund.de>

Thanks for the help - it's all sorted now.

I got confused between my tests in the interactive window and the script
itself (which was missing the "rb". Feel a bit silly now!)

Thanks again,

Brian

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Brian Patton]
> > I'm having a problem with file.read.
> >
> > I'm writing a filter to get data from a binary formatted file so that I
> > can import it into other software. I'm running Python 2.1 with the win
> > extensions downloaded from ActiveState. Win98 system. Oh, and I've
> > opened the file "rb"! ;)
> >
> > My problem is that when I try to read in a given number of bytes, the
> > length of the string returned is rarely the length that is expect.
> > Furthermore, if I try to get the data by repeatedly grabbing smaller
> > chunks then is seems to step almost randomly through the file.
> > ...
> 
> Since this is "an impossible problem", I doubt you're going to get anywhere
> until you post a complete, self-contained, executable code snippet.
> Whatever is going wrong is going wrong due to something you haven't shown
> us.
> 
> Here's my complete, self-contained, executable code snippet, in file
> seek.py:
> 
> fFile = open('python.exe', 'rb')
> 
> fFile.seek(8000)
> while fFile.tell() < 12000:
>     test = fFile.read(6)
>     print "Length of string read in:", len(test), \
>           "Current File Pos:", fFile.tell()
> 
> Here I'm running it:
> 
> C:\Code\python\PCbuild>python seek.py > seek.txt
> 
> Here's what's in seek.txt afterwards:
> 
> Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 8006
> Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 8012
> Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 8018
> ... many equally boring lines skipped ...
> Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 11990
> Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 11996
> Length of string read in: 6 Current File Pos: 12002
> 
> Everything's fine.  Show us something that isn't, including the open.


From piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl  Fri Aug 31 08:34:39 2001
From: piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:34:39 +0200
Subject: Windows and file input in Python
References: <9ml0uf$cuv$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61@posting.google.com> <9mnrs712i70@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9mntda$dch$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>

In article <9mnrs712i70 at enews2.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

> "Jeff Grimmett" <grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61 at posting.google.com...
>     ...
>> 2. Get Cygwin from Cygnus Solutions -- it includes a BASH shell for
>> Windows. The BASH shell offers more interactivity and better command
>> line editing of commands.
> 
> Cygwin also currently comes with the latest released Python, 2.1.1 ...
> enabled for readline, etc, all nice and Unix-like!-)  Recommended!!!
>

Ok. Where can I find the cygwin distribution of python? I'v looked around
the www.cygwin.com sites, but with no luck.

Tanx.
Piotr Legiecki


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug 30 02:42:33 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:42:33 +1000
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
In-Reply-To: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <0108301642330B.01434@ike>

On Thursday 30 August 2001 15:23, Gerson Kurz wrote:
> 2) It would be nice if you could insert "preprocessor plugins" in the
> python interpreter: python scripts, that preprocess the text before
> interpreted. You can always add eval()/exec() statements to your code,
> but it would be nice if they were to be added automatically. Then, a
> syntax change like the one described in 1) could be easily added to
> the interpreter for those who would like to have it. But, maybe thats
> already possible and I only don't know of it ?

I'm not sure it's exactly what you want, but have a look at the rexec module 
in the standard library...


    Richard



From geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu  Mon Aug 27 10:14:02 2001
From: geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Brian E Gallew)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:14:02 -0400
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <200108271414.f7REE27k005320@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>

Then <geek+ at andrew.cmu.edu> spoke up and said:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: po7.andrew.cmu.edu
> That really won't do what you want it to do.  You probably want to do
> something like this:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/env python
> import os,glob
> 
> cmd = [ '/usr/bin/tar',
> 	'-x',
> 	'-z',
> 	'-f',
>       ]
> 
> tar_file_list = glob.glob('*.tar.gz')
> 
> for tar_file in tar_file_list:
>     if os.fork():
>        os.wait()
>     else:
>        os.exec(cmd[0], cmd + [tar_file,])

The observant reader will note that os.exec should really be os.execv.



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 12:16:44 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:16:44 +0200
Subject: reducing if statements and error handling
References: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lu1he02n0j@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Jeff" <jhardcastle at solarc.com> wrote in message
news:e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5 at posting.google.com...
> Another easy newbie question here...  Suppose I have a method that
> accepts a string (called 'value') as an argument.  I want the method
> to check to see if the contents of the string is all numbers.  Here's

That's what string-method isdigit is for, indeed:-).

> def checkvalue(value):
>    if value.isdigit():
>         print 'success: ' + value + ' is a valid entry'
>         return 1
>    else:
>         print 'error: ' + value + ' is NOT a valid entry'
>         return -1
>
> Questions:
> 1) can I reduce this "if" logic down to one statement, perhaps using
> lambdas?

No, there is no way you can both print and return in "one statement"
(except a compound statement, like the if/else you're using here).

With some *HORRIDLY* convoluted obfuscations you might be able to
substitute the print statements with sys.stdout.write(...) calls,
and squeeze the whole body of function checkvalue into a single
return statement which emits messages as a "side effect"...
but why ever would you want to compose such a monstruosity...?
E.g., something like:
    return (sys.stdout.write(([
        'error: %s is NOT a valid entry'
        'success: %s is a valid entry',][value.isdigit()])%value)
        and 0) or [-1,1][value.isdigit()]
...but why would anybody obfuscate in such fashion...?

Besides, that wouldn't work if you wanted to raise in certain
cases only, anyway -- raise is also a statement.  And (see
below) it's better to raise on invalid value here...

> 2) is there a recommended approach for throwing errors?  In this case,
> I'd want to throw an error if the text is not a number and stop
> processing.  Can I define a custom exception to do that?  Should I

Of course!  E.g.:

class NoNumber(TypeError):
    pass

> catch the error in the logic that called the method and throw the
> exception there if the method returns a "-1", or should I throw the
> exception here?

Far better to raise here: this way, you can design upper layers
to let the exception propagate up to whatever level can best
handle it -- if you use return, you rely on the specific level
that's calling this function to check for the error-return value.
Not a good idea if you can avoid it, and raise lets you avoid it.


Alex





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 31 15:08:10 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:08:10 -0700
Subject: Python descendant to Perl?
References: <4e2ddb70.0108310753.57cb4b49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8FE09A.2E451424@ccvcorp.com>

Jonas Bengtsson wrote:

> Is Python a descendant to Perl? I thought it was the other way around.
> http://www.clug.org/presentations/oodemo/oofamily.html

I think you may be misinterpreting the diagram--the arrows indicate that
Perl inherits its OO-behavior from Python.  Though, as has been noted,
Perl has been around in non-OO form longer than Python has...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dek at cgl.ucsf.edu  Mon Aug 20 14:37:27 2001
From: dek at cgl.ucsf.edu (David Konerding)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 18:37:27 GMT
Subject: embed python in C++
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000@aludra.usc.edu> <9ktmkt020cq@enews1.newsguy.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108101436070.18685-100000@aludra.usc.edu> <9lr62n11p83@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o2m77.6mv6.dek@socrates.cgl.ucsf.edu>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:15:50 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> "wkuang" <wkuang at usc.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0108101436070.18685-100000 at aludra.usc.edu...
>> Is there anyone know how to install boost.python. The website said most
>> boost libary are implemented entirely within their header files, but the
>> makefile for linux have libboost_python.a, so I assume boost.python is one
>> of the exception. Basically, I havenot been able to run a single example
>> successfully. Any idea? Thanks.
>>
>> I am using linux 7.1 with KCC 4.0e, gcc2.96 is kind of ok.
> 
> Right.  Go to boost_1_23_0\libs\python\build where you've unpacked
> the sources and you'll see a file named linux_gcc.mak.  Run GNU
> make, specifying that file as the makefile, and off you go.

That's not enough.

1) extract boost.

2) make a new directory, preferably not in the boost source tree

3) cp the linux_gcc.mak from boost_1_23_0/libs/python/build to the new
dir

4) edit linux_gcc.mak so the settings for the variables are correct

5) run "make -f linux_gcc.mak softlinks"

6) finally run "make -f linux_gcc.mak" and cross your fingers. 


From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 12:16:17 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:16:17 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer Deyke wrote:
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> news:slrn9ops86.ks3.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
>> In article <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer
> Deyke wrote:
>> ><gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > news:9mfqmi$ko4$1 at thorium.cix.co.uk...
>> >> c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)
>> >
>> > That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
>>
>> After reading a handful of follow-ups, I'm still curious what
>> you mean when you say that's unreliable.
> 
>>>> def foo(a, b): return '%.2f' % (float(a)/b)
> ...
>>>> foo(1, 200)
> '0.01'
>>>> foo(3, 200)
> '0.01'
>>>> foo(5, 200)
> '0.03'
>>>> foo(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000l, 2)
> '5000000000000000200000000000000000000000.00'

Thanks, but that wasn't helpful.  Am I to assume that you're
not happy with one of the results?  Which one?  Why do you
think it's wrong?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I've read SEVEN
                                  at               MILLION books!!
                               visi.com            


From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Mon Aug 27 01:45:42 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:45:42 GMT
Subject: Single Instance of app
References: <9mbj7f01054@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9oj62s.1f4.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <3B89B85D.9B6898B1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ojoab.11a.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> dijo:
> Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> > 
> > import os
> > user_dir = getuserdir()  # dunno how this is done on WinNT/2000
> > lock_filename = user_dir + 'lock'
> > if os.path.exists(lock_filename):
> >     print "process already running"
> >     sys.exit(1)
> > lock_file = open(lock_filename, 'w')
> > lock_file.write("%d\n" % os.getpid())
> > lock_file.close()
> > # go on about business as usual
> > 
> > This has worked for decades on *nix. <wink>  If it doesn't work on your
> > OS, I'd like to know how you end up solving the problem.
> 
> Are you certain *that* particular pattern has worked for decades?
> It looks like it has a classic synchronization problem, when 
> two processes are started simultaneously and they both make it
> past the os.path.exists() line before either executes the open()
> statement.  Or is this just a risk people live with?

It was never intended to be production-quality code. It was an ad-hoc
script thrown together to (roughly) illustrate one method of lockfiles
on Unix systems.

In retrospect, I should have directed the OP to a place to read more
about this. However, I'm not in the mood at the moment to give the OP
the _exact_ code _for_ him.

On that note, one should obtain a lock on the target file before
assuming as much about it as my above code did. The fcntl module is
the place to start.

While I'm at it, I've never actually seen (nor needed, thus far) Python
code to get an atomic lock on a file.  What's the idiom in Python?

Tim
-- 
If you do not climb, you will not fall. This is true.
But is it that bad to fail, that hard to fall?
    -- Morpheus, The Sandman


From stevena at neosynapse.net  Fri Aug 17 22:15:10 2001
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:15:10 -0400
Subject: feature request: parameter functions
Message-ID: <7477296186.20010817221510@neosynapse.net>

Hi gang,

A feature idea for Python.  Right now, you can specify default
parameters in functions and these parameters can be functions, but
this is of limited value, since the function is evaluated at the time
the def statement is initially executed.  I'd like these function
parameters to be dynamically evaluated, and I'd like to take it a step
farther so that it's not strictly a default parameter issue.
Specifically, I'd like to be able to pass any of the parameter values
to the function if they WERE specified.

Why is this desirable?  It allows you to clean up parameters, ensuring
they are exactly what you expect, perhaps raising an exception if not,
and focusing your function on exactly what it is supposed to do,
without worrying about checking and converting parameters.  Python
largely avoids all the result-checking of C with exceptions; why not
do away with all the type-checking (or object capability-checking)
code at the top of many functions, that just serves to dilute the
simple task of your function? Furthermore, this is a relatively easy
way to get something kind of like type-checking into Python without
going all the way to allowing optional declaration of type for a
variable.

Some example code:

    def foo(a, b, c=myfunc(c)): [...]

    def myfunc(param):
        if not param: return myobject(0)
        if type(param) == IntType:
            return myobject(param)
        elif type(param) == InstanceType:
            return param
        else:
            raise TypeError, 'parameter must be an instance of myobject or an Integer'

Note that a parameter function must return some value or a TypeError
(not enough arguments) is raised.  Any number of parameters may be
passed to a parameter function, including the values passed to the
function itself.  So if the caller wrote something like:

    foo(1, 2, 3)

Then the integer 3 would be passed to myfunc.

All this is really no different than code like this:

    def foo(a, b, c=None):
        c = myfunc(c)

...but it's cleaner, especially for functions with many parameters.
Since function parameters as I described them translate into the
above, it should be easy to translate such headers in bytecode to the
above; thus, internally, function-call semantics need not change. When
def is evaluated, anything with a function as a default value receives
None as the internal default, and the parameter function is called
first thing inside the function body.

One other rule to make things simple: let l be a parameter in a
function that is associated with a parameter function, and m another
parameter associated with a parameter function later in the parameter
list.  If m is a parameter to l's parameter function, the raw value is
used; that is, if a value was passed for m, the value before it is
processed by m's parameter function is used, or None if no value was
passed.

Thoughts, comments?
            
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven D. Arnold                                  stevena at neosynapse.net
AIM: abraxan                                               ICQ: 73804392
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   There is no spoon.   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From mjackson at wrc.xerox.com  Sat Aug 25 11:03:58 2001
From: mjackson at wrc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 15:03:58 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <9m8dqi$fdv$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9m8eou$f5o$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

xaahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
> In article <9m1n6p$bs0c8$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>,
> Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
> >
> >new mantra:  If you want to know the right way to do something, post a
> >response showing the wrong way to do it.  - Always works.  ;-)
> 
> Yes.  Here's my standard quote on the subject:
> 
>     The best way to get information on Usenet is not to ask a question, but
>     to post the wrong information.  --Aahz
> 
> Some people refer to that as Aahz's Law.  ;-)

Note that Aahz's Law does not necessarily imply van Sebille's Mantra;
more explicitly:

    The best way to get information (which may or may not include
    correct information) on Usenet is not to ask a question, but to post
    the wrong information.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	Don't talk to the crazy people on the street, even though
	they may seem fun to be with.
	    - /CityPack, New York/ Chinese language edition (1996)




From relfx at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  9 09:41:25 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:41:25 -0400
Subject: Posting From Within Python..........
Message-ID: <Hlwc7.6378$Ke7.383365@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I need a little help I have noticed that it is possible to connect, read,
post your questions directly from python using the nntlib. The only example
I have seen for this is a version that allows to view the last 10 posts.

     Does anyone have the full script for the nntlib so that I may post
directly from python 2.1.1?





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 05:23:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:23:33 +0200
Subject: User Method CAN be based on built-in function!?
References: <3b688229_5@Usenet.com>
Message-ID: <9kb6i4029al@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tom" <tom-list at home.com> wrote in message news:3b688229_5 at Usenet.com...
> I find this odd.
>
> In my experiments with Python 2.1.1 on Windows 2000, a user-defined method
> can be based on a 'builtin function'.
>
> In other words, I call PyObject_GetAttrString( pPyObject, "im_func" ),
> and a built-in function type object is returned.
>
> How can this be?

Pretty easily!  new.instancemethod(callable, instance_or_None, klass)
accepts any callable as its first argument.  So, for example:

class X:
    def __len__(self): return 23

import new
X.plik = new.instancemethod(len, None, X)

Now any instance x of X has a method x.plik() [returning 23] and
x.pak.im_func is len, the well-known builtin.


Alex





From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 23:41:31 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:41:31 GMT
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com> writes:

> I don't know if this was intended, but it appears that the metaclass
> instantiation doesn't work with Python 2.2a1.  Are the old metaclass
> things no longer supported in 2.2 or is it just temporarily broken?

Can you be more specific?  What old metaclass are you referring to?
It's probably broken because I changed the Don Beaudry hook invocation
to favor the new metaclass mechanism that is central to the new types
in 2.2.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug  8 13:31:17 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:31:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
In-Reply-To: <f9ec7.101122$Cy.14802622@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081310450.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Tim Hochberg wrote:

> 
> <gyromagnetic at excite.com> wrote in message
> news:3b716759.126576344 at 127.0.0.1...
>
> > Is there a way to map the .upper method to these items? Something
> > like, for example,
> > >>>>map(?.upper, val).
> 
> Did you try the obvious thing? It should work. For example:
> 
>    class Monty:
>        def spammify(self, text):
>            return "spam & %s" % text
> 
>    l = ["eggs", "baked beans", "sausage"]
>    m = Monty()
> 
>    print map(m.spammify, l)
  [...]
> 
> Or did you mean something completely different?

I think he meant (from the example) to map a method onto a list of
instances. 

If they are all instances of the same class, then you can map the 
unbound class method to the list of instances:

>>> class X:
...     def __init__( self, val ):
...             self.val = val
...     def value(self):
...             return self.val
... 
>>> things = map( X, range(5) )
>>> map( X.value, things )
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4]

However, if there are any subclasses in the list, you may not get
the answer you're expecting:

>>> class Y(X):
...     def value(self):
...             return self.__class__.__name__ + ':' + str(self.val)
... 
>>> Y(999).value()
'Y:999'
>>> things.append( Y( 999 ) )
>>> map( X.value, things )
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 999]


And it won't work at all if any of the classes are not subclasses of 
the class method's class:

>>> map( Y.value, things )
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unbound method value() must be called with instance as first
argument



So the best method is either to wrap the method in a lambda function:

>>> map( lambda x: x.value(), things )
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 'Y:999']


Or, in 2.*, us a list comprehension:

>>> [ x.value() for x in things ]
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 'Y:999']


-- Steve M.






From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 29 23:07:52 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:07:52 GMT
Subject: Two Jython Questions
References: <toqj9braams57a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3b8dac97.54891359@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:12:08 -0500, "Maan M. Hamze"
<mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:

:I just got into Jython.  I installed version 2.  After trying it out, I
:wanted to import Java classes.  But I noticed that it will not import from
:jar or zip files of java classes.  In other words, I had to unzip (unjar)
:the classes into a directory where Jython can find it.
:1.  Is there a way to make Jython import classes directly from archives
:(zip. jar)?  Or is this not supported.

The CLASSPATH must include the jar file itself, not just the directory
it's in.  Take a look at the Jython script itself and you'll see
that's what it does (it will be jython.bat on WIndoze, a shell script
on UNIX/Linux).

:2.  Can Jython save a py script into a java file or is the py script
:compiled directly into a .class file?

If you want to build classfiles you can do so with jythonc. That's the
analogue to javac, except it's Python->java bytecode instead of Java->
java bytecode.  There's no translation to java /source/.

:All in all I am impressed - this program can spoil someone into not writing
:a code of Java ever again.
:Thanks,
:Maan
:
:

Mats Wichmann



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 13:28:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:28:23 +0200
Subject: efficient in-place byte modifications
References: <29e28c51.0108150911.28f315ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lebg312mlp@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Cimarron Taylor" <cimarron+google at taylors.org> wrote in message
news:29e28c51.0108150911.28f315ff at posting.google.com...
> Hi, I'm looking into using python to prototype a program
> which will read, process and retransmit network packets
> using a simple pair threads and a pool of packet buffers.
>
> At first glance, it seems Python has all the networking
> and threading operations I need.  The thing is, I need to
> do a lot of separate in-place modifications of the contents
> of the packets, so using (immutable) strings for packets
> probably won't work.
>
> I think my remaining options are to:
>
> 1. use the array module for the buffers

This one should be just fine.  Why not?  An array of
bytes appear to be just what you desire as a "packet
buffer", from your summary description.


Alex





From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Aug 20 07:05:22 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:05:22 +1000 (EST)
Subject: zlib problems with Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <LGBX1rs21rjs-pn2-gplXEtVO9vBF@1Cust178.tnt53.rtm1.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108202058330.213-100000@central>

[posted & mailed]
On 19 Aug 2001, Peter van der Kamp wrote:

> Working with the zlib module under Python 2.0, OS/2 Warp 4,

Which port/build?

> I encounter the following error: unknown compression method.

{...}

Without seeing the original code, its hard to tell.  Your pseudocode
doesn't indicate how you're recording the position/length of the
compressed chunks.  I would guess that something isn't correct about this
part of your script, but that it gets it right for the first couple of
chunks - unless you've checked that the retrieved chunk is identical to
the chunk written.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug  8 15:04:27 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:04:27 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
In-Reply-To: <87k80fg083.fsf@lucifer.home.spb>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108082302060.13590-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On 7 Aug 2001, Eugene Morozov wrote:
> I'm playing with Python, COM and Word and I'm very impressed. It's a
> shame that no such thing exist under Unix.

   Especilly it is shame there is no Word under UNIX.

   Welcome to the Russian-speaking Python and Zope User Group: zope.net.ru.
Please subscribe to our mailing list: http://zope.net.ru/About/mail-list/

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 21 11:16:02 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 08:16:02 -0700
Subject: Declarations vs. statements (was Re: Dumb python questions)
References: <mailman.997933587.4901.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lttvi$7hv$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997933587.4901.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>Paul Rubin:
>>
>> Here's something I don't understand: why is it that the default
>> value of a function arg is evaluated just once, instead of whenever
>> the function is called?
>
>Simply because that seemed most useful most often, and is most consistent
>with the rest of the language:  default arguments are a kind of binding
>performed at function definition time, and there are no instances of
>"delayed assignment" anywhere in the language.  Note that "def" is an
>executable statement in Python, not a declaration ("class" is also
>executable, btw -- the only declaration in Python is the "global" stmt).

Hmmm?  I would argue that "yield" (new in Python 2.2) is both an
executable statement and a declaration.  In fact, that's precisely why 
I argued against making yield alone the keyword for identifying a
generator.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 18:00:53 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:00:53 -0400
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>
Message-ID: <uCic7.81$jo2.7458@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

You don't need reportlab id you're prepared to do *some* work. I wrote a PDF
invoicing routine using piddle (or sping, as we must now call it). It was
all remarkably trouble-free, although it was a while ago so my code might
not work with a current sping version.

I could look up some code if you email me, or you could go the ReportLab
route: that also seems quite easy.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Joonas Paalasmaa" <joonas at olen.to> wrote in message
news:3B719D26.F0E38B13 at olen.to...
> How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
> I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
> examples




From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sat Aug 11 15:59:19 2001
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:59:19 +0100
Subject: Py 1.5.2 -> Py 2.1.1 broke regular expression?
Message-ID: <3B758E97.95B5D69C@ndh.net>

Hello

I have a program which _ran fine with Python 1.5.2_ but fails with Python
2.1.1. Its purpose is to extract IRC log sessions from several log files
and sort them into one file in the correct order (by date/time).

To do this, it uses (in effect) something like
  re.compile(pattern).findall(log_lines)

That works fine with the pattern string
  ^Session Start: \w{3} \w{3} .*?^Session Close: \w{3} \w{3} .*?$
but raises a
  RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
in re.compile(pattern).findall(log_lines) when used with the pattern
  ^IRC log started \w{3} \w{3} .*?(?=\012IRC log started \w{3} \w{3} |\Z)

First, I thought it was because of the number of IRC sessions but the program
fails with the second pattern even for few (5) sessions. It used to handle
much larger numbers.

Any hints? A bug or a change in the regular syntax; anything else?

Thanks in advance for the answers :-)

Stefan


From paul at boddie.net  Tue Aug 14 06:00:54 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 03:00:54 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997771602.13136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108140200.543eb8d5@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997771602.13136.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> I'm afraid it's too late <0.5 wink>.  In response to a msg where I urged you
> repeatedly to read the darn PEP, and spelled out what a small role Alice and
> VPython have played in all this (perhaps seminal, perhaps not, but a drop in
> the bucket regardless), it's still the only thing you talk about.

I can understand Arthur's confusion, though. If you look at the
original posting concerning the patch, it does seem as if VPython was
a strong motivation:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=no&safe=off&th=f469b79854278e6,59&start=0

Guido writes...
>
> I'm cc'ing Bruce Sherwood and Davin Scherer, because they asked for
> this and used a similar implementation in VPython.  When this patch
> (or something not entirely unlike it) is accepted into Python 2.2,
> they will no longer have to maintain their own hacked Python.

For what it's worth, I do know what VPython is, but was never that
interested in downloading it. Perhaps I would have tried it had it not
required patches to the Python interpreter. ;-)

Tim writes...
>
> That's fine, but you should argue with the VPython developers now.  Your
> argument surely isn't with Python's PEP 238, because you've had nothing to
> say about the PEP!  One last time:  VPython is irrelevant to PEP 238 at this
> stage.  If you want to talk about the PEP, cool, but I don't have time to
> care about VPython.

VPython probably is irrelevant to PEP 238 at this stage, apart from
being a project which will benefit directly from the changes brought
about by being pulled into the mainstream. However, it's unfair to
pretend that Arthur has imagined influences that VPython (and Alice)
may have had:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cp1ynukxmv.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com

Quoting Guido...
>
> "Robert J. Harrison" <rjh at 3-cities.com> writes:
> > Again, my major objection to this proposal is that it gives us
> > nothing and breaks a lot of existing code.
>
> Other educators disagree.  Take the case of VPython.
>
> The VPython folks have used Python very successfully to teach freshman
> physics students at Carnegie Mellon to create 3D models.  Many
> students had little or no programming experience.  The goal of the
> course wasn't to teach programming, it was to teach understanding of
> physics.

Then, later on...
>
> This exactly corroborates the experience of the Alice team (who
> started this discussion).

With revisions 1.10 and 1.12 of the PEP 238 document also as evidence,
I can understand some people wanting to know more about the
*motivations* for the impending changes. Indeed, the motivations are
more interesting to some people than the actual changes themselves,
because they are part of a decision-making process which is
interesting and instructive to observe.

I really shouldn't need to quote parts of messages that are already in
the public domain, but if it means that "light" is contributed to this
discussion, rather than "heat", then I suppose it has to be done.

Paul


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 22 18:34:30 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:34:30 -0700
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3B83CFA6.F8E7ACA8@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3B843375.BB26101@ccvcorp.com>

Joseph Andrew Knapka wrote:

> Emile van Sebille wrote:
> >
> > Does this help get you started?
> >
> > >>> class A:
> > ...     def a(self):
> > ...             print 'A.a()'
> > ...
> > >>> class B(A):
> > ...     pass
> > ...
> > >>> eval('B.%s' % 'a')
> > <unbound method A.a>
>
> Yes, this is quite nice, thanks :-)

Or, to avoid that eval() ....

>>> class A:
...  def Spam(self):
...   pass
...
>>> class B(A):
...  pass
...
>>> if hasattr(B, 'Spam'):
...  print "Got it!"
...
Got it!

You can use hasattr() on class objects just as easily as on instance
objects.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu  Tue Aug 14 12:48:14 2001
From: wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu (Wen Jiang)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:48:14 -0500
Subject: strange problem with os.system() call
Message-ID: <3B79564E.A3E3F652@bcm.tmc.edu>

hi,
I am having a really strange problem with os.system() call on a RedHat
6.2 system.

Here is the problem:

a simplge c program

main(int argc, char** argv){
	system("./mmy_rec");
}

this will work fine, "my_rec" runs.


but if I run it in python:

#!/usr/bin/env python	
import os
os.system("./testc")

this would immdediately core dumped at the point in the c program
system() call.

the debugging information says it crashed at the entry point for
"my_rec" main() function.

to make this problem more strange:

1. if I change the program "my_rec" to other programs, no problem at
all. I tried to compile "my_rec" with different compilers (gcc, g++,
pgcc), all crashed.

2. if I run the exact same thing on a Mandrake 8 system, no proble at
all.

3. if I use Perl, no problem ( I think this also uses the c system()
call)
open(CMD,"| my_rec")

4. I tried the Python 1.5.2 came with RedHat 6.2, and my own Python 2.1
compiled from the src package, both crashed.


I have tried to find out what execatly is going for this strange
problem, could any one give me some clue what the problem is?

Thanks,

Wen


From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Aug 15 20:34:07 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Dr. David Mertz)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:34:07 -0400
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
Message-ID: </Txe7kKkXMnI092yn@bellatlantic.net>                         

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> with usual wisdom wrote:
|So, slashdot doesn't give an error when I try to /GET that URL -- it
|appears to give a perfectly valid page....
|You may pepper your checking code with a zillion special cases
|to try and identify the various "friendly error message pages"
|returned by sites you're interested in -- and one day, of course,
|your program will end up considering "not found" a perfectly
|valid URL to a document with a title such as "404 File Not
|Found" or something like that.

Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This zillion special
cases of 404-ish pages is something I use as an example in my
forthcoming book _Text Processing in Python_ (a few more months until
done).  Here's the code I present as an attempt at recognizing what only
humans can:

    #---------- error_page.py ----------#
    import re, sys
    page = sys.stdin.read()

    # Mapping from patterns to probability contribution of pattern
    err_pats = {r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?(404|403).*?ERROR.*?</TITLE>': 0.95,
                r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?ERROR.*?(404|403).*?</TITLE>': 0.95,
                r'(?is)<TITLE>ERROR</TITLE>': 0.30,
                r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?ERROR.*?</TITLE>': 0.10,
                r'(?is)<META .*?(404|403).*?ERROR.*?>': 0.80,
                r'(?is)<META .*?ERROR.*?(404|403).*?>': 0.80,
                r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?File Not Found.*?</TITLE>': 0.80,
                r'(?is)<TITLE>.*?Not Found.*?</TITLE>': 0.40,
                r'(?is)<BODY.*(404|403).*</BODY>': 0.10,
                r'(?is)<H1>.*?(404|403).*?</H1>': 0.15,
                r'(?is)<BODY.*not found.*</BODY>': 0.10,
                r'(?is)<H1>.*?not found.*?</H1>': 0.15,
                r'(?is)<BODY.*the requested URL.*</BODY>': 0.10,
                r'(?is)<BODY.*the page you requested.*</BODY>': 0.10,
                r'(?is)<BODY.*page.{1,50}unavailable.*</BODY>': 0.10,
                r'(?is)<BODY.*request.{1,50}unavailable.*</BODY>': 0.10,
                r'(?i)does not exist': 0.10,
               }
    err_prob = 0
    for pat, prob in err_pats.items():
        if err_prob > 0.9: break
        if re.search(pat, page):
            # print pat, prob
            err_prob += prob

    if err_prob > 0.90:   print 'Page is almost surely an error report'
    elif err_prob > 0.75: print 'It is highly likely page is an error report'
    elif err_prob > 0.50: print 'Better-than-even odds page is error report'
    elif err_prob > 0.25: print 'Fair indication page is an error report'
    else:                 print 'Page is probably real content'

You could play with this to include urllib.urlopen() instead of just
reading STDIN, or course.  The threshhold approach, IMO, does pretty
well.  But nothing's perfect... in fact, I've found pages that I have a
lot of trouble saying for sure whether they are real content or not
using my own eyes.

Yours, David...



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 05:37:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:37:54 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <9ldauj01j69@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENPLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin, asks about cmath branch cuts]

[Alex Martelli]
> Fully specified at
> http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/lib/module-cmath.html

Oops!  I forgot Fred added that.  How much do you want to bet that they're
all correct <wink>?

betting-imaginary-dollars-myself-ly y'rs  - tim




From chrishbarker at home.net  Fri Aug  3 15:51:44 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:51:44 -0700
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net>

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> > "need" is arguable. I think a whole lot of organizations keep their code
> > restricted for no good reason. Of course, some folks have good reason:
> > Microsoft could be a successful company if it opened up it's products,
> > but it would be no where near as rich!
> 
> That's right.  And as a leader in any company with investors, public
> or private, you have an ethical obligation to maximize their return
> on investment using any (ethical) means at your disposal.
> "Ethical Means" should be read to mean "any activity which
> does not involve Fraud, Violence, or Threat Of Violence).
 
> In this same vein - "I think a whole lot of individuals keep their
> money in bank accounts that are hard to get into.  If they would
> just open up their bank accounts and let me have some of their
> property, they'd still have some money left."
> 
> Property is property, regardless of the medium it which it is
> expressed.  Property Rights are fundamental to any civil society.

This is not at all what I meant. What I meant was that many companies
and organisations keep restrictions on their code, even if it does not
help, and may hurt, their bottom line. The microsoft example was an
extreme example of a company whose bottom line would be hurt by freeing
their code.

An example I can think of at the moment is hardware companies that keep
their drivers proprietary: they are in the business of selling hardware,
not drivers, the drivers are needed to use the hardware. The more they
free the code of the drivers, and the more they make the specs of their
hardware available, the more likely it is that someone will write a
driver that they havn't written themselves (for Linux as an example),
and then they can sell more hardware. Many times this information is
kept proprietary simply because business peopl find the idea of giving
away something they have paid for distainfull, it is closed minded
business practices.

I'm not making thisexamples up: in the early Linux days (when I started
using it) Diamond would not release their specs, so their video cards
were not supported. I had just bought a new machine, and had to return
the Diamond card, and replace iot with an ATI card. Diamond eventually
realised the folly of their policy and became one of the more linux
support video card manufacturers. I'm pretty sure they made rather than
lost money by establishing a more open policy.

> At the time, the GNU 'lesser' license had not yet been hammered out.
> The license as written could have been construed to mean that software
> compiled w/GCC had to be distributed in source form.   We were a
> software vendor and this was an unacceptable risk, in my judgement.
> (Because I was fulfilling my obligation to the investors to try to maximize
> their return on investment.)

I'm not questioning that having your code GPL'd out from under you was a
risk that may have made no sense for your company, the question was
whether there was a risk of that happening. I imagine some years ago,
and before the LGPL was established, that it was less clear how all this
was applied. IN the current GPL FAQ at www.gnu.org, it clearly states
that:


Can I use GPL-covered editors to develop non-free programs? Can I use
GPL-covered tools to compile them?

	Yes, because the copyright on the editors and tools does not cover the
code you write. 

and:


In what cases is the output of a GPL program covered by the GPL too?

     Only when the program copies part of itself into the output. 


There is more there, but his is the gist.

This was obvious to me the first time I ever read the GPL, but I suppose
when it was all new the the business world, it took some getting used to
(and still does). No one gets all paranoid over a Non Disclosure
Agreement, because they they are familiar with them, and because they
are based on a business model that most business people understand,
unlike the GPL.

> I have no problem with Open Source authors stipulating the terms
> of distribution of their work.  This is, after all, *their* property
> and their rights ought to be protected like anyone elses.

The idea of a written work (originally) or a piece of computer code now,
as "property" that the author has long standing right over is relativly
new, and defined only by society and a body of laws. See:

http://arl.cni.org/info/frn/copy/timeline.html

for a history of copyright law in the US. From that source, a few
quotes:

US Constitution:

"""The Congress shall have power . . . to promote the progress of
science and useful arts . . . by securing for limited times to authors
and
inventors the exclusive rights to their respective writings and
discoveries."""

So, the goal of copyright law is to "to promote the progress of science
and useful arts" and copyright is to be for a limited time. The goal was
to have this body of law to support the good of society as a whole. The
focus was not to enhance the profits of individuals or organisations.

Since then copyright law has gotten stronger and stronger, and extended
more and more rights to the copyright holder an his/her estate. 

"""
1909: Revision of the U.S. Copyright Act

A major revision of the U.S. Copyright Act was completed in 1909. Key
aspects of this revision are: a broadening of the scope of categories
protected to
include all works of authorship, and an extension of the number of years
in a renewal term (14-28) for a total of 56 years of protection. With
this legislation,
the attention is focused away from regulating the marketplace to
proprietary rights. 

"""

Here's a quote from another web site (http://www.jps.net/dcm/copyright/)

"""
Consider the situation immediately before the
Copyright Act of 1710. A publisher could
purchase the rights to a work, edit the text,
typeset, and promote a work. He would, of course,
have a set a price that would allow him to make
back what he laid out, plus a profit for himself,
plus a reserve for those works that did not sell
well enough to pay for themselves. Now let us 
suppose this work was successful. Without the
copyright protection, another publisher could take
the work, retypeset it, and sell it at a lower
price because he doesn't have to pay the author,
nor the editor. He doesn't have to pay for
promotion, and he doesn't have to worry that the
book won't sell.

Since anyone foolish enough to print a 
new work would, if the work were successful,
be immediately undercut on the market, suddenly
no publisher was willing to print new works, and
there was no market for new ideas.

The Copyright Act served to create a market,
but it was not designed to protect the 
publisher or author, but rather society's
interest in new ideas.

"""

Personally, I think that copyright law has shifted too far in the
direction of protecting publishers and authors, and away from the public
good original intent. It is, of course, a debatable point whether the
law has shifter too far in that direction, but it has certainly shifted
than way.

 
> As I mentioned above, the problems I have encountered in this area
> are pre-LGPL and may well no longer be an issue.

I agree that both the licenses and understanding have changed. I didnt'
know how far in the past you were refering to.

By the way, FSF literature and the GPL are littered with words like
"moral" and "ethical". I try to stay away from these issues, there are
plenty pf practical consideration without having to try to argue
morality with people.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Thu Aug  9 12:03:05 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 12:03:05 -0400
Subject: Searchable python documentation
References: <9ktu83$9bn$1@s1.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <3dy9ot2pc6.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

Tom Huckstep <tomhuckstep at bigfoot.spammenot.com> writes:
> Is there any searchable python documentation, that performs
> a bit like man, so I could do
> 
> $ pyman compile
> 
> and it would show me the documentation for the builtin
> function compile?

pydoc, added in Python 2.1, does exactly that.  Try 'pydoc --help' 
to see everything pydoc can do.

--amk


From owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu  Tue Aug 28 18:16:07 2001
From: owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:16:07 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9mh578$u9a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545 at pollux.casema.net>,
 "jeroen paul goudsmit" <diedanootdie at danoot.com> wrote:

>I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language for
>me to use. is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?
>I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
>like it. If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a python
>sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")
>Is python hard to learn? And is there a dutch person in this group? If there
>is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.
>Could you please answer my questions?

The bad news is Python does not include an integrated GUI with a nice 
graphical builder and all that. Hence if you use Visual Basic mostly for 
simple GUIs than you may find Python a bit of a struggle. However, 
Python does talk to various GUI tool kits (as others have mentioned). 
Since it sounds like you've been doing windows programming, I recommend 
starting with wxPython (and there are some GUI builders for that, none 
of which I've used). wxPython works on under various windows and unix 
variants, and may eventually run on the Mac.

The good news is that Python is an excellent language -- both simple and 
powerful. Strengths include:
- interpreted (like Basic, unlike C), so fairly quick development cycle
- decent object implementation
- nice string handling
- nice collection classes (lists, arrays, dictionaries...)
- nice exception handling
- default parameters for subroutines
- decent namespace support, so large projects are manageable
- reasonaably self-consistent
- good included documentation

Aside from the GUI issues, I think you'll find the language much more 
pleasant than Visual Basic (based on complaints I have heard about 
clutter and lack of self-consistency in VB; I have not used the 
language).


Some alternatives include:
- RealBasic: runs on Windows and Mac, and is basically supposed to be a 
"better Visual Basic". I've not used it (but expect to start if it ever 
runs under unix).

- Smalltalk: various flavors run under most platforms. VisualWorks comes 
in a free version for noncommercial use and code runs unchanged on 
windows, unix and Mac. Dolphin is windows-only and has the best windows 
integration. Squeak is a free version that runs on everything. Smalltalk 
is wonderful -- incredibly simple yet incredibly powerful (the power 
due, in part, to the awesome included class library).

- Java: has a built in GUI system and runs on nearly everything. 
Somewhat clumsy to program in (due at least in part to strong typing, 
some clumsy language constructs and the need to compile code). Tons of 
books.

- Tcl/Tk: runs on most platforms. Simple and regular, easy to integrate 
into other applications.

I'm afraid I don't know which books are available in Dutch, but some 
surely must exist.

-- Russell


From scott_hathaway at riskvision.com  Thu Aug 23 12:56:13 2001
From: scott_hathaway at riskvision.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:56:13 -0500
Subject: py2exe and SOAP.py
Message-ID: <3b853563.0@216.0.152.7>

I am trying to build an .exe with py2exe on Windows with a project that uses
SOAP.py.  When I try to run the .exe I get this error:

LookUp Error:  no codec search functions registered:  can't find encoding

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Thanks,
Scott




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 10:47:08 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 07:47:08 -0700
Subject: REQ : Real.py
References: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it> <7xheuzue16.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <JL7h7.18078$4b5.465332@news6.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <7xk7zuzvdf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Patrick" <patrick.fichou at galactica.it> writes:
> I received a link that works in my mailbox... Here it is :
> <
> http://www.itp.ac.cn/software/mirror/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar
> >
> This module extends the capactity of Python with 'real numbers' : compute
> with 1000's of digits what you want. IMPRESSIVE !

Thanks... you can also do that with gmpy... in fact gmpy can handle
very large numbers (millions of digits even) and it will use FFT-based
multiplication once the numbers get big enough for that method to win...


From jessefw at loop.com  Thu Aug 23 15:42:23 2001
From: jessefw at loop.com (Jesse F. W)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:42:23 -0700
Subject: Downloading alpha releases; a good idea?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231532140.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B84FA2F.14115.3139CC1@localhost>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> If the new version has features or bugfixes that you want or need,
> then by all means upgrade. Otherwise, why bother?
I would like some of the 2.2 features but I wan't to know if the alpha 
releases are stable enough.

		Jesse W



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Aug 15 14:42:20 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:42:20 -0700
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <7x3d6ui5ye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <tnlgir3et3k2f7@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7x3d6ui5ye.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> I've just started reading/playing with Python and I notice that
> integer division and remainder in python works differently than in
> most languages.  In python, division always returns the floor,
> i.e. non-integer quotients are always rounded downwards, towards
> negative infinity:
>
>    7 / 3 =  2
>   -7 / 3 = -3
>
> This is kind of strange.  Normally you expect (-a)/b to be the same
as -(a/b).
> That's what happens in most languages, where division rounds towards zero:
>
>   7 / 3 =  2
>  -7 / 3 = -2
>
> I think the motivation was so that % would work as a "mod" function
> instead of the more normal "remainder" function.
>
> Python:  -7 % 3 = 2
> Most other languages: -7 % 3 = -1
>
> The mod operation is useful for many things, but I think assigning it to %
> in Python shows some confusion in Python.  The result of % is an ordinary
> integer, not an integer mod N.
>
> I think it would have been better to leave / and % alone, and define
> a new pair of operators (maybe /_ and %_) to implement what Python does.
> That's similar to Common Lisp, which provides the trunc-mod and floor-mod
> functions to implement remainder and modulus respectively.  I don't
> remember if CL has a floor-div function, but it might as well.

I agree with the desire to have two separate operators. As far as I'm
concerned
the "mathematically correct" result of the division of two integers is a
rational
(and I'm not going to argue with the BDFL's decision to make it a float -
since
we don't have rational arithmetic yet, it seems like a reasonable decision.)

The "correct" integer results of integer division are whatever the
application needs.
This has been beaten to death before, so I'm not going to expand on it.

What I would like to see some thought on, however, is how to steer relative
newcomers to the correct operator for their application, without having them
trip over "but it worked this way in language 'x'", or "this is the way Mrs.
Simmons
taught me in 4th grade." (That last is not a joke - I've had it happen in
classes I've
taught!)

The only solution I've been able to come up with is "div0," "divf", "rem0"
and "remf" for the
division and remainder operators that round toward zero (div0 and rem0) and
round
toward negative infinity (divf and remf). In other words, / and % always
return a float
(or a rational, whenever that is implemented), and the word operators are
required if
one wants an integer result. This looks ugly, but at least the words are
more suggestive
than the symbols.

In the direction of suggestive, possibly idiv0, idivf, irem0 and iremf would
be even more
suggestive - they indicate that the result is an integer. Likewise, divmod
would become
idivmod0(,) and idivmodf(,).

Following a comment elsewhere in the thread, adding int0() and intf()
functions would
complete the set.

John Roth








From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 10:12:57 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:12:57 -0700
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net> <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9m5nkv$ft15$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

 exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Brian Kelley" <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:3B8667A3.7020806 at wi.mit.edu...
> Bengt Richter wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:34:12 -0500, Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu>
wrote:
> >
> >>Running Python 2.1
> >>
> >>def a():
> >>   return b
> >>
> >>exec "a()" in {'b':1, 'a':a}
> >>
> >>b doesn't seem to passed as a global into the function a.
> >>
> >This seems possible:
> > >>> exec """def a():
> > ...    print 'from a()'
> > ...    return b
> > ... print a()
> > ... """ in {'b':1, 'a':a}
> > from a()
> > 1
> >
> >I'd guess the dictionary for globals used by the function is
> >determined by the context of the execution of the def?
> >
> If that's the case though, I would have expected a compiler/syntax
> error.  I was hoping that I could pass globals into a compiled function
> though.  Guess I'll have to look at the source code and see if this is
> not possible.
>
> Brian Kelley
> Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research
>



From not.this at seebelow.org  Mon Aug  6 10:51:40 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 07:51:40 -0700
Subject: counting occurrences
References: <mailman.996902347.22149.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kmats0df1@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.996902347.22149.python-list at python.org>, "Tim says...
>
>[Grant Griffin]
>> I have long used dictionaries to counting occurrences of
>> something (usually strings).  It goes something like this:
>> ...
>> For me, this sort of thing comes up so often that it qualifies as
>> an "idiom".
>> ...
>> However, the sorting thing is a pain ...
>> so I mentioned to a friend that it would sure be nice if Python
>> dictionaries had an "items_sorted_by_value" method.

>Won't happen -- you can easily write a function for it yourself in Python,
>and it's not going to run significantly faster if it's coded by us in C
>instead.  Dicts have no internal ordering, so the best efficient thing
>anyone can do here is materialize a list in full, sort it, and pull it apart
>again.

I guess I wasn't really after "speed".  I was more interested in making this
common operation more _accessible_ to beginners, and more _convenient_ to
all--you know, kindda like list comprehensions.  (Or do we have LCs purely for
"speed"<wink>?)

>Note that in Python 2.2, you can *subclass* from dicts, like here in
>grantdict.py:
>
>class Grant(dictionary):
>    def items_by_value_backwards(self):
>        items = [(v, k) for k, v in self.items()]
>        items.sort()
>        items.reverse()
>        return [(k, v) for v, k in items]

Great--thanks!  (Anything that uses _two_ list comprehensions in five lines
can't be _all_ bad <wink>.)

>...
>Well, no sane person wants it built in <wink>, but of course dicts are
>natural for this.

OK, maybe you're right: maybe it isn't a good idea to have it built in...

watch-sourceforge-for-my-submission-of-'grantdict.py'-as-part
   -of-the-2.3-standard-library-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 15:01:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:01:52 +0200
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <82399a9.0108190144.cffeff7@posting.google.com> <fogvntkmm6cbietb3sllp1phmkc12dnmqo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9lp2fr1u6e@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fogvntkmm6cbietb3sllp1phmkc12dnmqo at 4ax.com...
> On 19 Aug 2001 02:44:50 -0700, aito at carenet.co.jp (Akio Ito) wrote:
>
> >henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com (Henrik Ekelund) wrote in message
news:<f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85 at posting.google.com>...
> >> We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) ...
>
> Hah. I just read this for the second time. I saw "large
> system" and so of course saw this as "100,000 lines". A
> 10,000 line program is a "large system"? Surely thou
> jesteth?

10,000 lines of Python are a lot -- I think they translate
to (depending) 50,000 to 100,000 of C++.


Alex





From zooko at zooko.com  Thu Aug  9 13:50:54 2001
From: zooko at zooko.com (zooko at zooko.com)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 10:50:54 -0700
Subject: time and scheduling (was: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing)
In-Reply-To: Message from Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> 
   of "Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:29:11 CDT." <15212.23320.31927.755668@beluga.mojam.com> 
References: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie>  <15212.23320.31927.755668@beluga.mojam.com> 
Message-ID: <E15UtxP-0001Rn-00@imp.aerie>

 * Can I just ignore this thread and keep using `time.time()'?

Not if you want your events to execute in the right order.  The natural way to
schedule events in Python is to use the result of `time.time()' to key events
in a sorted list.  (For example, the original version of the Mojo Nation[1]
scheduler[2], and the recently announced "Selecting" scheduler[3], both do
this.)

Most of the time, this does what you think it does.  In some rare cases, or in
some very common cases on certain platforms, it does *not* do what you think it
does, and it causes your events to fire in the wrong order, which can do
arbitrarily bad things to your users.  The fact that people naturally assume
that this is the way to do it, and that when they do so it works *most* of the
time, makes it a particularly insidious problem.  


 * What went wrong in the first place?

Some events in Mojo Nation were getting executed in the wrong order, causing
all kinds of weird errors.  At first I thought this must be due to a bug in the
code that scheduled the events, but that code checked out okay, so then 
I thought it must be a bug in Mojo Nation's event scheduler, but it got a clean
bill of health, too.  Then I wrote a test script which tested whether the
answers returned from Python's `time.time()' were non-decreasing, and 
I discovered that `time.time()' does actually go *backwards in time* pretty
often!

I reported this[4] to the Python people, who helped me figure out that
`time.time()' returns the answer from the system call `gettimeofday()', if it
is available, and that on my computer `gettimeofday()' can go backwards in
time!

Many people reported that this doesn't happen on their computer, and Johannes
Stezenbach helpfully pointed out [5] that the variable-speed CPU in my laptop
is probably the reason why I get this behavior frequently and other people
don't.  I also got a report of the same behavior from a user that does not have
a laptop but who does have two CPUs in his computer.

So I was about to report this as a bug in Linux's `gettimeofday()', when
suddenly I realized that *this is not a bug*.


 * What do you mean by "time", exactly?

There are two notions of "time" that you might want to use in a computer
program.  One is the "global, absolute time".  This could mean UTC,
astronomical time, Gregorian Calendar time, or whatever, but the important
thing is that "what time it is" in this sense is *defined* outside of your
application and indeed outside of your computer.  If you want to use this kind
of time in your code, you have to be prepared for your idea of "what time it
is" to change out from under you, and you have to trust remote computers and
your users to keep you informed of what time it "really" is.

We do not use this notion of time in Mojo Nation.  At least, not on purpose.  
I believe that using this notion of time is unreliable (for obvious reasons)
and insecure (since it exposes the behavior of your application to manipulation
by an external party who can influence your computer's idea of "the current
time").

The other notion of "time" is local, always increasing, and always moving
forward at the about the same speed (depending on the quality of your hardware
clock).  This notion of time is useful *only* for *relative* time between two
events in your application.  For example, you may want to know how much time
passed between the beginning and the end of a running a certain routine, and
you may want to schedule an event to be run "180 seconds from now".

Now `gettimeofday()' is defined to report the former notion of time.
Therefore, there is absolutely no guarantee about how the answers from
`gettimeofday()' behave with respect to the actual local time.  Not only the
strange behavior of Linux's timer loop on variable-speed and SMP systems, but
also skew correction, automatic remote synchronization a la NTP, manual
adjustment by the user, and Daylight Savings Time adjustments can cause the
time reported by `gettimeofday()' to be unpredictable.

(Tim Peters pointed this out more succinctly.[6])


 * How do we work around the problem?

The current solution that we've deployed in Mojo Nation is the addition of an
"IncreasingTimer" class [7], which guarantees that the answer will be
monotonically increasing.  In addition, it guarantees that the "delta" between
the answers that it returns and the underlying answer from `time.time()' is
monotonically non-decreasing.

Bengt Richter and Ken Seehof [8, 9] each suggested removing the delta
guarantee, which would make sense if you wanted IncreasingTimer to approximate
global time, but I think not if you want IncreasingTimer to approximate local
time.

This delta feature is important for the use of the Mojo Nation scheduler --
without it, if the underlying hardware clock were set back a day, then for the
next day "local time" would seem to slow to a crawl -- every time you called
`time()', you would get a number only slightly greater than the previous time.
Therefore, if you asked the Mojo Nation scheduler to execute a certain event
"10 second from now", it would never get around to it.

On the other hand, *with* the delta guarantee, if the underlying clock leaps
*backwards* a day and then leaps *forwards* a day, then the event scheduler
will immediately try to process all pending events that were scheduled to go
off until the next day.  This isn't great, but I don't see how to get around
it, and anyway even without the delta you still have the same problem if the
underlying clock just leaps forwards a day from a standing start.


 * What should the Python authors (and Linux kernel hackers) do about it?

At the very least Python's `time.time()' ought to be documented to warn people
from using it in this way.  But what should it suggest that they do instead?

Much nicer would be if the Python authors could somehow offer me access to a
"local time" clock which was guaranteed not to go backwards *nor* to leap
forwards dramatically.

Of course, we can't actually *prevent* the superuser from tinkering with such a
clock, but we *can* define it as a clock that shouldn't be tinkered with,
unlike the `gettimeofday()' clock, which is defined as needing to be tinkered
with in order to keep approximating universal time.  


Regards,

Zooko

Journeyman Hacker and Consultant
http://zooko.com/intro.html

P.S.  I just realized that we *do* use the notion of absolute time in Mojo
Nation for one purpose: to time-stamp the logs in UTC format so that you can
visually compare the logs from two separate instances of Mojo Nation and,
provided that their clocks were properly synched with NTP, correlate messages
sent between them.

P.P.S.  I *love* this list.  I got lots of quick responses and friendly
cooperation, from running my test script to suggesting variations of
IncreasingTimer and showing how to do an IEEE 754 double hack [9, 10].  
I remain convinced that the friendliness and energy of the Python community is
one of the most important factors in Python's success.

[1] http://mojonation.net/
[2] http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/common/DoQ.py?content-type=text/plain
[3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016000.html
[4] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058296.html
[5] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058332.html
[6] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058381.html
[7] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058363.html
[8] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058394.html
[9] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058384.html
[10] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/058383.html




From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug 23 15:11:35 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 19:11:35 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9oa58q.971.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <jacobkm-13E542.17590423082001@news.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oalb7.3vn.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:59:04 +0100, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <jacobkm at dont.spam.me.cats.ucsc.edu> pisze:

> I think I see what Russel is getting at here... the point is, myInt
> is an instance of class MyInt when it is first created, but what
> if I want to change the value of myInt without modifying the class?

int is immutable, so I expect the int part of MyInt to be immutable.

If you want a mutable int, don't inherit but compose/delegate (I'm
not familiar with the terminology).

You can't replace the base object when inheriting from regular classes
either. For regular classes there is even no base object (the same
__dict__ is used).

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From shriek at gmx.co.uk  Fri Aug 17 03:05:59 2001
From: shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 00:05:59 -0700
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <al0kntsbemrr6al60k891umqpstvqo49qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <97ae44ee.0108162305.50fde664@posting.google.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message 

> Note, however, that the standards for HTML formatted e-mail are still
> evolving.  Messages with image attachments in Outlook generally only look
> right when viewed in Outlook.
> 
> You build your message with MIME type multipart/related.  You put the HTML
> text in a text/html part, and then use a series of image/gif attachments to
> hold the images.
> 
> Chek RFC2557 at http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2557.txt

Thanks for the great pointer. I'm still trying to digest and test this.

This may explain why I received screwy results such as 

__________________________________________________________________

Subject: This is a MIME example 

--192.168.2.137.1.1764.997875395.419.408
Content-Type: text/html;
    name="Just some HTML email"
Content-Description: Just some HTML email

Dear Boss,
          
This is <b>bold</b> of me but here's a clue as to what we should be using:

<img src="http://www.python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif">

__________________________________________________________________        


When I tried to use other code generously donated.

I soldier on. Will report back when success is reached.

Stephen.


From howard at eegsoftware.com  Fri Aug 24 14:43:56 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:43:56 GMT
Subject: error importing win32api in debugger
Message-ID: <3B86A06A.9D2D4314@eegsoftware.com>

I am getting failures importing win32ui on an embedded application.

I am running in the debugger.  Since win32ui is a DLL, I assume the
problem is mixing debug/non-debug dlls.

Is there some place I can get 2.0 debug dlls or (gasp) do I need to
build these from source?

Thanks,
Howard



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 13:31:57 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:31:57 -0500
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
In-Reply-To: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1>
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <15217.30605.618277.496022@beluga.mojam.com>

    Brad> For a simple example, suppose that I want to convert the items in
    Brad> a list to uppercase. Currently, I might do something like

    >>> import string
    >>> val=['abc', 'def', 'ghi']
    >>> map(string.upper, val)
    ['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']

    Brad> Is there a way to map the .upper method to these items? Something
    Brad> like, for example,
    >>> map(?.upper, val). 

How about using a list comprehension?

    [x.upper() for x in val]

    Brad> I think that map currently works by applying a function to each of
    Brad> the items in the list, but would it be useful for 'map' to be able
    Brad> to take a method instead of a function?

List comprehensions are relatively new to Python (as of 2.0).  You can see
more examples in the tutorial:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node7.html

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From jknapka at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 17 17:33:14 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:33:14 GMT
Subject: Automating UI tests (was Re: Art of Unit Testing)
References: <3B7D29E0.602AF8BD@earthlink.net> <9ljtjv02om7@enews2.newsguy.com> <3B7D5033.6A16F2C3@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3B7D53EF.3A301516@earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> "Joseph Andrew Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3B7D29E0.602AF8BD at earthlink.net...
>     ...
> > So that means I'd need to write code that actually drives
> > the Tk widgets "from outside", as it were, either by synthesizing
> > events somehow at the OS/window-system level, or by knowing
> > enough about the Tk internals to convince the widgets that they're
> > being clicked on, typed at, etc. And at that point it looks like
> > a lot more effort than it's worth.
>
> That's basically what we did at work for our capture-and-playback
> based testing system -- knowing enough about the internals of
> our own UI-engine architecture, of course (it's based on MFC, but
> wraps it in a script-friendly way), so that events can be captured
> and played back at different levels of abstraction (depending on
> whether we're testing the UI-engine, or the actual application).
>
> There are commercial solutions based on OS-level C&P, but of
> course they're much more oriented to testing the 'externals' -- a
> little change in UI layout or whatever, and your database of
> captured sessions for regression-testing playbacks is toast.
>
> I can't think of a reasonably complete solution that's worth the
> effort for one user of a GUI toolkit -- the test-harness should,
> it seems to me, be part of the GUI toolkit itself (alter sys.path
> so a guitest directory is prepended, and rather than the actual
> widgets &c what you're getting is some kind of test-harness
> version).  But I don't know of any GUI kit, commercial or free,
> for any language[s], that offers such a precious feature:-(.  It's
> not easy to architect, of course:-(.

Possibly the Anygui project could offer a backend that,
rather than instantiating Tkinter or wxPython controls,
or whatever, instead instantiates objects that present a
programmatic interface for the use of unit test code.

--
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# 2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt A


From salvetti at crans.org  Mon Aug  6 04:30:13 2001
From: salvetti at crans.org (=?UTF-8?B?RGpvdW3DqQ==?=)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:30:13 +0200
Subject: Python and Gtk
Message-ID: <9klkjv$1p9$1@wanadoo.fr>

I begin with Python and Gtk and I have some unresolved question : 

I use Gtkinter and I have notice that a lot of gtk (or gdk) object miss in 
the gtk.py module. How can I do when I need these objects (for example 
Gdkfont)?

Where can I find the prototype (type of arguments) of a callback function 
must have (for example where can I find the type of arguments of a button 
pressed callback funtion)?

Djoum?

PS : I apologize for my english... (i am french)


From aahz at panix.com  Sun Aug  5 12:16:03 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 09:16:03 -0700
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kjrg3$hac$1@panix2.panix.com>

[posted to c.l.py, with cc to Guido because of the delay]

[I've been busy for a few days, plus I needed some time to let my
thoughts (and the discussion) settle a bit.  I've double-checked against
a skim of revision 1.14, and I don't see a clear statement about this
issue, nor any mention of my suggested solution.]

In article <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list at python.org>,
Guido van Rossum  <guido at zope.com> wrote:
>
>Alternatives
>
>    In order to reduce the amount of old code that needs to be
>    converted, several alternative proposals have been put forth.
>    Here is a brief discussion of each proposal (or category of
>    proposals).  If you know of an alternative that was discussed on
>    c.l.py that isn't mentioned here, please mail the second author.
>
>    - Use a directive (or some other way) to specify the Python
>      version for which a specific piece of code was developed.  This
>      requires future Python interpreters to be able to emulate
>      *exactly* several previous versions of Python, and moreover to
>      do so for multiple versions within the same interpreter.  This
>      is way too much work.  A much simpler solution is to keep
>      multiple interpreters installed.

Actually, I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion of this
alternative.  It occurs to me that we could make good use of a directive
even without bringing forward old behavior.  As I see it, the major
criticism of this proposal is the potential for silent breakage of old
code, with a secondary concern about the ability to maintain code across
multiple Python releases.

If we make a directive a requirement of the Python language starting in
version X.Y (let's assume Python 3.0, but it might be earlier), all old
scripts will fail loudly.  This is a Good Thing.

People will still want to try running their old scripts, so we'll permit
the directive to refer to older versions of Python.  *All* that the
directive will do is spit out warnings and errors during the compile
phase (e.g. if it sees a division operator).  Because this is a hook
that doesn't affect the rest of the interpreter, maintaining it should
be simpler, and there isn't anywhere near the baggage effect.

Given all the other discussion that's gone on, I shan't whine if my
proposal doesn't get accepted, but I think the PEP still needs a clear
statement about the silent breakage that's possible under the current
plan.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Aug  7 03:57:49 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:57:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python & wxGTK & wxPython on Solaris 2.6
In-Reply-To: <m4ir8uobxk1.fsf@macquarie.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108071156400.8836-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On 7 Aug 2001, Timothy Docker wrote:
> > config.status: test: argument expected
>
> The problem here is that the autoconf setup for wxGTK expects bash,
> not standard sh. After that error was produced, I ran the
> config.status script manually (with "bash config.status"), and then
> continued with the installation stuff.

   Though I cannot guarantee anything in this particular case, in most
cases on Solaris it is enough to replace all /bin/sh to /bin/ksh in all sh
scripts.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From patio87 at aol.com  Sat Aug 11 21:47:47 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 01:47:47 GMT
Subject: Newbee question here. 
References: <slrn9n9lct.iff.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <20010811214747.07561.00000234@mb-fq.aol.com>

What exactly does medusa do?


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 12 19:45:15 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:45:15 -0400
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997649300.13212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B77150B.9F8FC079@engcorp.com>

Oktay Safak wrote:
> 
> First I constructed a dictionary a. Here it is:
> 
> {'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
> >>> for x in a.keys():
>         if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
>         else: print x+a[x]
> 
> 
> yas23
> ad'veli'
> soyad'guzel'
> 
> I just want to concatenate the two strings without the
> quotes as in the last line. 

Anything wrong with this, simpler, approach?

>>> for x in a.keys():
...     print '%s%s' % (x, a[x])

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 17:52:44 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:52:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
In-Reply-To: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281750410.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> I have a question about file locking aspect of the fcntl module for Unix
> systems.
>
> I was checking out the man pages on the Linux system that I use (my
> webhost), and under man flock(2) it mentions (among other things):
>
> NOTES
>        flock(2) does not  lock  files  over  NFS.   Use  fcntl(2)
>        instead:  that  does  work  over NFS, given a sufficiently
>        recent version of Linux and a server which supports  locking.
>
>        flock(2)  and fcntl(2) locks have different semantics with
>        respect to forked processes and dup(2).
>
> Python docs for the fcntl module state:
>
> lockf(fd, operation, [len, [start, [whence]]])
> 	This is essentially a wrapper around the fcntl() locking calls.
> 	fd is the file descriptor of the file to lock or unlock, and...
>
> Am I correct, then, in interpreting these together, to mean, that I will
> get greater portability/control if I use fcntl.lockf than if I use
> fcntl.flock? Because, as I read this, fcntl.lockf may work in situations
> where fcntl.flock does not (especially over NFS?).
>
> Please advise. Thanks,
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

Yes. Funny thing is, that if the OS doesn't have flock(), it'll use the
lockf()-equivalent fcntl anyways. If you didn't understand that, then don't
worry about it :)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From blong at fiction.net  Thu Aug 30 21:00:53 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:00:53 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1 Bug (was Re: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?)))
In-Reply-To: <20010830173135.A30182@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829151706.A27274@pulp> <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829213051.A27754@pulp> <20010830173135.A30182@pulp>
Message-ID: <20010830180053.A30400@pulp>

On 08/30/01 Brandon Long uttered the following other thing:
> 
> Ok, here's the revelation:
> (<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>, <exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x818a04c>, <traceback object at
> 0x8189b38>)
> AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80c807c>
> exceptions.AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>
> 
> Ie, exceptions.AttributeError and AttributeError don't match.
> 
> MySQLdb isn't required.  All that has to happen to cause this is to
> import the exceptions module.

Bug found.  In Python/pythonrun.c:Py_Initialize() there should be a call
to _PyImport_FixupExtension() for the exceptions module after
init_exceptions().  Ie:

--- Python/pythonrun.c	Mon Mar 26 11:53:38 2001
+++ Python/pythonrun.c.new	Thu Aug 30 17:59:43 2001
@@ -144,6 +144,7 @@
 
 	/* initialize builtin exceptions */
 	init_exceptions();
+	_PyImport_FixupExtension("exceptions", "exceptions");
 
 	/* phase 2 of builtins */
 	_PyImport_FixupExtension("__builtin__", "__builtin__");


Brandon
-- 
 "Some people have one-track gutters." -- Harlan Ellison
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From gmcm at hypernet.com  Wed Aug  8 17:22:52 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 21:22:52 GMT
Subject: Macintosh localhost (127.0.0.1) connection problem
References: <35aa4c93.0108081140.6262905e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F7B0DB18FF2gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>

[posted and mailed]

Timothy Jordan wrote: 

> Platform: Apple Macintosh G3
> OS: Mac OS 9.0
> 
> I can't seem to find a way to use python to connect the localhost
> address on a Mac.  I've been using httplib.HTTP() to connect to the
> host '127.0.0.1'.  When connecting, it crashes the system.  No error is
> displayed.  In addtion, I added a hosts file through the TCP/IP control
> panel containing "localhost A 127.0.0.1".  Internet Explorer can
> connect to 'http://localhost' properly but python returns 'error: host
> not found'.  Any suggestions?

I hesitate to even enter this thread.

It took me 2 months of intense frustration to get this working on the mac, 
and it still doesn't work very well. I had to make extensive patches to GUSI 
(which macPython uses to present a somewhat POSIX-ish layer on top of the 
raw - and I mean *raw* - OS 9 facilities). Not all my GUSI patches were 
accepted (understandably, because they still have problems).

First localhost: netscape will happily go looking for "www.localhost.com". 
IE seems to have it hardcoded. If *they* don't know how to make use of the 
info put into the control panel applet, no surprise no one else does, 
either.

No idea why connect crashes (except the obvious - you're on a mac), but all 
kinds of things don't work well when the server & client are on the same 
machine. The reason being that the mac is "cooperatively" multiprocessed. If 
the guy doing the "connect" doesn't release the CPU, the guy doing the 
"accept" can't process the connection request. This was the focus of my 
efforts: getting "accept" to do it's work in the interrupt, not whenever 
some other app decides to be polite and release the CPU.

If my client continues to fund this work (a big "if"), I'll try to produce 
acceptable patches. If someone with a high tolerance for frustration is 
interested in picking up where I left off, email me. Otherwise, if you 
insist on using a mac, upgrade to OS X.

- Gordon



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Aug 10 13:07:12 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 20:07:12 +0300
Subject: Python 1.5 v Python 2.1
References: <mailman.997454537.12835.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku1ymjdetb.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.997454537.12835.python-list at python.org>, Lindstrom
Greg - glinds <Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com> writes:

| I have a friend on my test team wanting to move to Python 2.1 on his windows
| 2000 box. He is currently running Python 1.5.2 and has lots of existing test
| code that he still wants to use. When he installed Python 2.1 and ran his
| first routine he saw: "dlls for 1.5 conflicting with version 2.1". I know
| there is an issue with the socket routine, but what's causing this, and how
| can I fix it for him?

this doesn't have anything to do with socket routines.

python versions are not binary compatible, so you cannot use a
binary ("dll") compiled for python 1.5.2 with python 2.1.

the fix would be to install 2.1-built versions of the extensions.

  -- erno



From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Mon Aug 13 20:11:56 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:11:56 GMT
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
References: <kb6gnt49hb0n6il52hb9r4ab59dkpbtgpn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ngrqn.2ij.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Kirby Urner <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> dijo:
> 
> I notice the author of the Dive Into Python tutorial cautions
> that __init__ is not trully a class constructor, as by the time
> it's invoked, an instance already exists (hence the argument
> 'self', hence the fact that classes don't need an __init__
> method).

I'm not sure what the author means, but:

class A:
    def __init__(self, *args):
        # do stuff

... is roughly analogous to C++'s constructors, if you don't count C++'s
implicit passing of the object.

...both of which are drastically different from Perl's OO constructor
syntax, requiring a constuctor of any name to "bless" this object (a
string ref, an array ref, a hash ref, a filehandle ref) into the given
"class" (ie, package name).  This is no doubt convoluted, but simplifies
certain processes, such as a wrapper object for an array;
$obj->[0] then refers directly to the first element, rather than having
to call, say, $obj->return_element(0). OTOH, doing this in Python
requires a lot of extra __*__ methods in the class.  You can see there
are dozens of arguments this way, but I much prefer OO in Python. <wink>

> I'm wondering if it's therefore considered faux pax to refer to
> the constructor of a Python user-defined class, meaning __init__,
> or if there's some tacit liberalizing of "constructor" (it's meaning)
> going on, such that this usage is acceptable.

For as much as OO is talked about, there are sooooooo many different
words for the same thing.

    object == instance
    data member == attribute ( ~ instance variable )
    inheritance == derivation
    interface == behavior
    interface (Java) == 'mix-in' class
    method call == message
    instantiation == creation
    super class == base class
    * and many, many more *

As such, words are bound to have their meanings confused; but I don't
think people ever agreed on terminology in the first place. <wink>

IMNERHO[1], the purpose of OO is abstraction of data to make it
easier to use and extend.  If you're accomplishing this, it's OO.

IMNERHO = In My Never Even Remotely Humble Opinion

<dons flame-proof armor> <wink!>

HTH
-- 
Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of
people passing notes in class.
    -- R. Kadel


From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 09:39:05 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:39:05 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer Deyke wrote:
><gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:9mfqmi$ko4$1 at thorium.cix.co.uk...
>> In article <9mfm1l$gs3$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl>,
>> piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki) wrote:
>>
>> > How can I tell python to give me only 2 digits after decimal point? And
>> > of course store it in a variable.
>> >
>> > So I want 'c' to be 3.33.
>>
>> c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)
> 
> That's unreliable.  Use this instead:

After reading a handful of follow-ups, I'm still curious what
you mean when you say that's unreliable.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm shaving!! I'M
                                  at               SHAVING!!
                               visi.com            


From new_name at mit.edu  Sun Aug  5 11:58:20 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 11:58:20 -0400
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net> <etdu1zoddw4.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <GU_a7.11610$5j7.678446@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <9kj15i02gdm@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <etdvgk2zeg3.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

FWIW, I never overload by type in my own code, I was just showing how
you could do it. :)

Alex.


From paullim at cyberway.com.sg  Wed Aug 29 09:57:45 2001
From: paullim at cyberway.com.sg (Paul Lim)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:57:45 +0800
Subject: Python Books - Which one?
Message-ID: <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4@cyberway.com.sg>

Hi to all

I am a newbie in Python programming. I hope the guru can adivse me.
I would like to acquire a book for my python programming. There are
generally three main books in my mind

1. Programming Python by O'Reilly
2. The Quick Python Book

Can anyone recommend to me which is better?
Or is there any better book out there?
I am looking for a book that is reader friendly but contain substantial
material that will last me quite some time.

Thanks.


Paul



From nospam at newsranger.com  Sat Aug 18 13:19:16 2001
From: nospam at newsranger.com (Levente Sandor)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:19:16 GMT
Subject: Confused about bound functions
References: <20xf7.12187$P15.6890321@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>
Message-ID: <osxf7.6137$2u.54442@www.newsranger.com>

In article <20xf7.12187$P15.6890321 at news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>, Theodore D.
Sternberg says...
>
>Why do I need to pass in a self argument, in the
>last line of the following program?
>
>------------------------
>class C:
>    pass
>
>c = C()
>cmd = 'def foo(self): print "I am foo"'
>exec cmd in c.__dict__
>
>c.foo(c)
>------------------------
>
>I'd like to be able to say simply "c.foo()".
>How can I arrange for that?
>
>Theodore Sternberg
>Fremont, Cal. USA


Your code adds the foo method to the c instance of the C class.
Change def foo(self) to def foo()
OR
c.__dict__ to C.__dict__
In the second case the method will be added directly to the class.
Levi









From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  1 17:31:37 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 17:31:37 -0400
Subject: Python Windows installer: good news!
References: <mailman.996649502.6015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uitg7ii12.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> The Python installer is more complex in several ways, though, and it's time
> for me to move on.  Note that I did check in a functional Inno Python
> installer, in PCbuild/python.iss (under CVS), and I'd be delighted to see
> interested parties in the community finish the conditional registry-fiddling
> parts.  I keep hearing that's how Open Source works <0.9 wink>.

I think I've heard that theory whispered occasionally too... :-)

That's actually what my post was meant to reference - finishing off
your functional-with-questions python.iss using ISX.  But as time is
finite (at least down to some level of precision or exactness and if
I'm not using / rather than // ... or something like that), it's not
clear there's much benefit to having a working Inno solution given the
new Wise lease on life.  At least barring some completely free
experimental time.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 26 10:05:51 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:05:51 -0500
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net>
References: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net>
Message-ID: <15241.575.772954.842109@beluga.mojam.com>

    Adam> OK, after the site-packages searching, I found no match for
    Adam> "*gtk*" in /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/ but lots of
    Adam> matches for "*gtk*" in /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages Does this
    Adam> mean I copy them over?  I'll try that, I don't think it could hurt
    Adam> anything...

Probably won't work, but I guess it's worth a try.  Much of PyGtk is C code,
which would have to be recompiled for 2.1.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 04:11:35 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:11:35 +0100
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org>
 <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <O9cyYLA3c5c7Ewm7@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <3B7384D0.12FB2B35 at letterror.com>, Just van Rossum
<just at letterror.com> writes
>Tim Peters wrote:


>uess-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
>
>  http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/
>
>Just


on the other hand

python-byte 
    A Column from a Wrestling Fan who tells it like it is! If you can't
handle the truth, then don't read it! The Python's Byte is brought to
you by Colin Q. Allegedly has more members than python-list. 

Those pesky statistics can be used to prove anything.
-probably yrs- 
Robin Becker


From garry at sage.att.com  Fri Aug 10 10:09:51 2001
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:09:51 GMT
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org> <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com> <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net> <Xns90F3127C4569Crcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B6B3F19.BDB95417@Lugoj.Com>
Message-ID: <3B73EB2F.69D3F6B0@sage.att.com>

James Logajan wrote:
> 
> Robert Amesz wrote:
> > There actually is an older spelling of the word, as we can see in the
> > title "Paradigm Lost", by Milton, the epic poem about mankind's
> > struggle to come to terms with Good, Evil, and The Loss Of A Small
> > Amount Of Change.
> 
> I'm sorry, but the title was "Pair 'o Dice Lost" and was about how to deal
> with a game of Monopoly (tm) when you land on Boardwalk with a hotel owned
> by your stupid brother and get so angry you throw the dice behind the sofa.

"Pair A Dice Lost" is an album by Hot Tuna.
has a kickass version of "Eve Of Destruction".

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   sometimes we ride on your horses
Senior Hacker                   sometimes we walk alone
Software Innovation Services    sometimes the songs that we hear
AT&T Labs                       are just songs of our own
garry at sage.att.com


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 14 14:04:39 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:04:39 +0200
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B7961E3.B62804C3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>
Message-ID: <n7pbl9.id2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:37:39 -0700, Alexander V. Voinov wrote:
>In general wxPython provides a rather thin if at all layer over the
>original C++ functionality, with few exceptions (like Python applets in the
>html view widget) which may not be in the everyday use by everybody.
>Closely following the lines of the underlying toolkit is good for some
>users but is bad for the others. Anyway everybody has a choice.

What I hate about wxPython is that it's quite frustrating to just try things
out in the interactive Python interpreter. Every few lines I get Segmentation
Faults when I do this. Then, the Python interpreter is gone and I have start
all over. That's just not the Python way of development, where I get exceptions
when I do something stupid.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 13:21:40 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:21:40 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3B7023A4.6020408@herts.ac.uk>


Joseph A. Knapka wrote:

> PEP proposal: add a backtracking Horn-clause resolution
> engine to Python!
> 
>  :-)
> 
> This problem is a two-liner in Prolog:
> 
> one_of_each([],[]).
> one_of_each([H|T],[H1|Ts]) :- member(H1,H), one_of_each(T,Ts).
> 
> It could be quite useful to be able to transparently call
> Prolog (or Mercury) from Python. Has anybody done it?
> How about Haskell, ML, etc?
> 
> -- Joe
> 

backtracking Horn-clause resolution engine, that can't be real 
terminology, I am sure you just plagerised Elmer Fudge :)




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 10:17:35 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:17:35 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    ...
> >> why is b2.getStory not getStory? Is it because importing from a isn't
> >> the same as the importing from the __main__ module?
> >
> >Exactly.  You have two instances of the module, one referred
> >to by sys.modules['__main__'] and the other by sys.modules['a'].
> >
> >> What is the correct way to import from the main script?
> >
> >import __main__
    ...
> not exactly good programming though if I later I import run from a in a
> different main script.

I agree: it's not good programming for any module to import
from the main script.  Dependencies should always be in the
other direction -- main script importing modules, not vice versa.


> Isn't this a wart?

It's surely IMHO a wart in your program if you need a module
to import from the main script.

If you're asking, is it a wart of Python that it allows you to
import the main script at all, my answer is that I don't think
so: Python is not in the business of enforcing good programming
practices.  Python gives you all the tools you need to structure
your programs well, and even provides a hint that "you really
shouldn't be doing this unless you really know what you're
doing" by having the main script's name decorated with
underscores -- now if you still want to go ahead and do it,
it's upon your head.

If you prefer a language that strives to enforce what its author
consider good programming practice, I would suggest Ada,
Eiffel, Modula-3, or Haskell.  Personally, I still prefer Python.


Alex





From rob at jam.rr.com  Sat Aug 18 11:17:32 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:17:32 GMT
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7E86C1.81279C14@jam.rr.com>

Josh wrote:
> 
> I want to work with PyGAME. But, I know I need to spend a little more
> time with some simple Python programs. But, I have no idea what would
> be a good program for a novice to work on. This isn't helped by the
> fact that the only need I really have for a computer at this point in
> my life is entertainment. Anyway, what do you guys think are some good
> problems for a novice such as myself to tackle? Thanks for your
> suggestions.
> 
> -Josh

Check out Useless Python, and you'll find quite a few projects, ideas,
and challenges. You can play with lots of source code posted by other
people, tackle programming contest problems (hundreds of them), take on
a Useless Python Challenge, etc.

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 10:10:28 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:10:28 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFA6@intrepid>

> From:	Oleg Broytmann [SMTP:phd at phd.pp.ru]
> On 8 Aug 2001, Simon Brunning wrote:
> > A preliminary of a Python version quick reference is now available at
> > <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR.html>.
> 
>    The ZIP file is broken. Please recreate it and let us know.
 
Fixed now. Also, text and PDF versions now available. I have also fixed 1
(one) spelling mistake (thanks, Andrew), so if you have already got the
HTML, I wouldn't bother getting it again.

Anyone find any other problems?

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk






-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 15:39:48 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:39:48 -0400
Subject: enhancing slicing
In-Reply-To: <3B8A970B.FEBA62DB@home.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFGLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Chris Barker, suggests gather subscripting]
> ...
> Now you have do do something like:
>
> >>> l2 = []
> >>> for i in indexes:
> ...     l2.append(l[i])
> ...
> >>> l2
> ['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']
>
> or with a list comprehension:
>
> >>> [l[i] for i in range(len(l)) if (i in indexes)]
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^       ^
> ['b', 'e', 'f', 'h']
>
> Both of which are far more wordy and confusing than my suggestion.

I put carets under the stuff you didn't need there; i.e.,

    [l[i] for i in indexes]

is the natural way to write this with listcomps.  A question is whether
that's a common enough need to justify masking what's currently a
TypeError -- you can't make a formerly exceptional case "mean something"
without tearing a hole in the type safety net.




From jonas.b at home.se  Fri Aug 31 11:53:50 2001
From: jonas.b at home.se (Jonas Bengtsson)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 08:53:50 -0700
Subject: Python descendant to Perl?
Message-ID: <4e2ddb70.0108310753.57cb4b49@posting.google.com>

Is Python a descendant to Perl? I thought it was the other way around.
http://www.clug.org/presentations/oodemo/oofamily.html

Regards,
Jonas Bengtsson


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Aug 10 17:23:20 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:23:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108101651420.724-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Cris A. Fugate wrote:

> Hi, I am trying to port some Tcl stuff to Python. Its kind of disturbing
> that Python cannot handle scope. Sure you have namespaces, but that
> doesn't help in this situation. In Tcl I would just say..
> 
> proc swap {a b} {
>    upvar a x
>    upvar b y
>    set z x
>    set x y
>    set y z
> }
> swap a b
> 
> But in Python I have to say..
> 
> def swap (a, b):
>    return b, a
> a,b = swap(a,b)

I can't write Lisp expressions of FORTH in Python either, but that
limitation hardly interferes with what I can do with Python. 

Is there something you can't do in Python or is it just that you
don't like (or aren't used to) the Python way of doing it. 

> I dont know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Tcl cannot
> handle multiple assignment, but Python cannot handle scoping.
> It makes functions less powerful, but it also seems to make the
> code more readable (IMHO).

I would say that Python has different scoping rules than Tcl --
not that it can't handle scoping. 

> BTW, I also noticed that python is rather weak in variable
> substitution. In Tcl I can say..
> 
> set x 5; set y "x"
> expr $$y + 1
> =>6
> 
> I cant do this in python without resorting to something like
> dictionaries..
> 
> y={'x':'z', 'z':5}
> y.get(y.get('x')) + 1
> =>6

y[y['x']] + 1  

might be slightly more clear, but even better would be to use a 
variable for the indirect indexing:

x='z'
y[x]+1


The most literal translation of your Tcl into Python would be:

>>> x=5
>>> y='x'
>>> eval(y) + 1
6

( 'eval' does the same sort of indirection as Tcl's 'expr' )

but you won't often see that sort of expression in Python code,
since there are better ways to do it.

I find multiple levels of string substitution to easily get confusing.
Tcl uses substitution for a lot of things just because it doesn't have
a large set of rich data structures.  Python's dictionaries, classes
and modules give you a richer vocabulary. 

You can write a Python equivalent of 'upvar' also, but it would look
ugly in Python.


-- Steve Majewski





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 03:11:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:11:47 +0200
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:1r66bnzkc6.fsf at video.bsd.uchicago.edu...
>
> I have a class member function that returns a member of that class,
> namely a date class that returns 'tomorrow'
>
> from Trade import MyDate
>
> d = MyDate()
> #mdy is month/day/year as a string
> print 'today is %s' % d.get_mdy()
> print 'tomorrow is %s' % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy())

Here's a reproduction of your code which includes a toy
implementation for the MyDate class:

import time
class MyDate:
    def __init__(self, when=None):
        if when is None: self.time = time.time()
        else: self.time = when
    def get_tomorrow(self):
        return self.__class__(self.time+86400)
    def get_mdy(self):
        return time.strftime("%Y/%m/%d",time.gmtime(self.time))

d = MyDate()
print 'today is %s' % d.get_mdy()
print 'tomorrow is %s' % (d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy())
print 'tomorrow is %s' % d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy()

> If I don't put the parens around 'd.get_tomorrow().get_mdy()' the code
> hangs (totally frozen, no response to Ctrl-C on a linux box)
>
> Does the % operator bind more tightly than the '.' operator?  Is this
> expected?

Absolutely not.  On my test code:

D:\py21>python pk.py
today is 2001/08/17
tomorrow is 2001/08/18
tomorrow is 2001/08/18

So, there must be something very peculiar with your date class,
or some other change besides omitting parentheses in the line
that's failing for you.


Alex





From timr at probo.com  Thu Aug  2 02:07:08 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:07:08 -0700
Subject: Trouble with SQL and Entry box
References: <20010801.123000.2118901476.1757@office.lan>
Message-ID: <b9rhmt0q058kiqs7mhonmeh35v71j4ifvu@4ax.com>

"Cguru" <cguru at bigfoot.com> wrote:
>This is what I have...
>       rs = pg.DB('blah')
>
>	query17 = "select companyname from clients"

It's good practice to end ALL queries with a semicolon.

>	var1 = rs.query(query17)
>        self.ent17 = Entry (master)
>	#self.ent17.configure(textvariable = query17)
>	self.ent17.insert(END,var1)
>        self.ent17.place(in_=master,x=120,y=30)
>
>It doesnt' do what I expect it to do.

The "query" method returns a tuple of tuples.  You get one tuple for each
database row returned, where each tuple contains all the columns in your
query.  In your case, if there are 5 companyes in the "clients" table,
you'll get:
  (
    ( 'IBM', ),
    ( 'Microsoft', ),
    ( 'GM', ),
    ( 'Ford', ),
    ( 'Motorola', )
  )

If you want to put the first column of the first row into your text box,
you should be able to use:

   self.ent17.insert(END,var1[0][0])

--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nospam at ihatespam.com  Sun Aug  5 16:57:10 2001
From: nospam at ihatespam.com (CCLittle)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:57:10 -0400
Subject: ActivePython and Python2.2a1 (IDLE)
Message-ID: <enib7.1609$96.1450@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

Hello,

Is there a bug with python on win2k that I don't know about?  ActivePython
runs fine, but if I don't something like:
dir(__builtins__)
the list goes on without linewrapping.  How do I fix this?

In IDLE for Python 2.2a1
It just crashes and quits after some simple try and except statements in the
interpreter.
>>> import sys
>>> raise hello, 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in ?
    raise hello, 1
NameError: name 'hello' is not defined
>>> sys.exc_type
>>> sys.exc_type()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in ?
    sys.exc_type()
TypeError: object is not callable: None
>>> sys.exc_value
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in ?
    sys.exc_value
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'exc_value'
>>> reload(sys)

press returns here causes the interpreter to quit without an error generated
by windows.

This is making my python development *a bit* difficult.  Any thoughts?

TIA
COW




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 16 21:17:23 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:17:23 +1200
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997359736.9019.python-list@python.org> <slrn.pl.9nibf3.ihu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <3B7C70A3.EE174FDB@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:
> 
> Let me add that I planned to extend this idea for another language
> in one of two ways:

If you're interested in ideas from other languages,
in ALAN (a language for text adventure games), double
quotes denote a string, whereas single quotes denote
a "quoted identifer", which is syntactically an
identifier but can contain any characters.

Something like that could have uses when binding
to external libraries which have identifiers clashing
with reserved words in your language.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 00:50:32 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:50:32 -0400
Subject: NetUserGetInfo function problem
References: <mailman.998539054.12405.python-list@python.org> <3B84B567.42C84FD@engcorp.com> <un14qqxro.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3B85DD18.17925089@engcorp.com>

David Bolen wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > That looks a lot like a count of seconds since Jan 1 1970,
> > but it still doesn't seem like it has anything to do with
> > Python.
> 
> It does because it's the Python win32net (part of the PythonWin
> package) module that is translating the timestamp returned by Windows
> into a Python time-module compatible value (e.g., a time_t).

Ah, I didn't realize it was a value massaged from that which
the Win32 API returned.  Mea culpa.

> > In case you didn't realize: comp.lang.python is for
> > questions regarding Python and some general topics
>
> Although it's always a good idea to try to identify the platform and
> environment within which the question is being raised, since there are
> quite a few permutations possible with Python.

I suppose that would have helped.  At least I would have known
the OP was even using Python.  Sorry to snipe.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug 12 16:55:43 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:55:43 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: dynamic-on-demand classes Re: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cpbsllf5ml.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130048330.4209-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>That may be usually for *your* classes :-).  Most of *my* classes
>don't need this.  If the default is static, most users will not have
>to change it (if my expectation is right that most classes don't need
>to be dynamic), and so most classes will benefit from the speed-up of
>static classes.  Since classes that need to be dynamic are naturally
>discovered during coding or testing (they give errors when trying to
>change a class), selectively turning on the dynamics is easy -- and it
>requires an explicit decision on the programmer's behalf.

Well, it seems appropriate to repeat my thought about
dynamic-on-demand here.

The thought is simple: let all classes be static UNTIL operation is
requested which need them to be dynamic. Then, __dynamic__ attribute
appears = 1 and everybody is happy: those, who want to sacrifice speed for
flexibility just let that operations happen. Those who use static classes
just have them.

Adding EXPLICIT __dynamic__ makes things hairy and no better
than adding "static" before "class".

class SleepyStatic:
  def __init__(self, x):
    if x:
      SleepyStatic.newattr = x       # now __dynamic__ == 1
    else:
      self.newattr = x               # __dynamic__ remains not defined or 0


- this allows Python to be flexible (when needed) and
more speedy (when this is wanted more).


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 12, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Is it possible to feel gruntled?" _/




From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Aug  7 16:25:16 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 16:25:16 -0400
Subject: curses-library bug? Help!
References: <dd144f8b.0108022312.35ceed15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dsnf31utv.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

teo at crepido.com (teo) writes:
>   if ch == curses.KEY_ENTER:

I'm not sure under what circumstances KEY_ENTER is actually returned;
perhaps it only appears on some exotic terminals.  You'd have to ask
an ncurses or termcap-related mailing list to find it. I've always
found that the Enter key causes ASCII 10 to be returned, and changing
the above statement to 'if ch == 10' causes it to work the way I'd
expect.

--amk




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 04:23:41 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:23:41 +0200
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
References: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com> <3B8D5DA7.6D977284@ccvcorp.com> <3B8D7378.A8E35CCB@home.net>
Message-ID: <9mkt6e01d0u@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Chris Barker" <chrishbarker at home.net> wrote in message
news:3B8D7378.A8E35CCB at home.net...
    ...
> >(just as there are some binary fp numbers that aren't
decimal-representable).
>
> Actually, I don't think that is true, as I learned on this list. I think

Right, and that's easy to prove -- that's because 2 is a
factor of 10, of course.


Alex





From delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE  Fri Aug  3 10:18:24 2001
From: delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Olaf Delgado)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 10:18:24 MET
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org> <G6ia7.76096$Cy.10932606@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mknig.4g5.delgado@eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>

 Tim Hochberg wrote:

>isinstance(anInstance, aClass) => aClass.classof(anInstance)
>isubclass(aSubclass, aBaseclass) => aBaseclass.superclassof(aSubclass)

Not bad! How about
  aClass.has_instance(anInstance)
and
  aBaseclass.has_subclass(aSubclass),
then?

This would resemble dictionary.has_key(...).

Olaf


From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Fri Aug 31 14:12:45 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:12:45 -0700
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
Message-ID: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com>

How to Config?




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Sun Aug 19 13:28:22 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:28:22 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500
Message-ID: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Hi,

I made this change to the Window registry for this and it does not work
(http error 500)

Directory
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W3SVC\Parameters\Scrip
t Map"
Key ".py"
Value "C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"

Did I forget something ?

TIA

--Gillou






From Chuck at StockAlerts.com  Mon Aug  6 12:07:19 2001
From: Chuck at StockAlerts.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:07:19 -0400
Subject: ssh control from Python
In-Reply-To: <200108061709.TAA05501@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>
References: <mailman.996152808.17602.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.996152808.17602.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010806120623.02bfcd90@mail.mindspring.com>

At 07:09 PM 8/6/2001 +0200, A.T.Hofkamp wrote:
>In comp.lang.python, you wrote:
> >I'm trying to control ssh from Python using pty. I have made some progress.
> >For example, if I send the wrong password, I get a message back saying so.
> >However, after sending the correct password, sent commands just get echoed
> >back to me.
>
>Looks like you're trying to solve 2 things here:
>1) Convince ssh to work
>2) Convince it to exec commands
>
>I'd suggest to first use your own shell program (e.g. /bin/bash) instead of
>ssh, to see whether you can get it to execute commands.

I solved the problem. Hopefully this week I will be able to sum up the 
results and post them back to c.l.p.


>Second, why are you trying to feed a password to ssh ?
>You can configure ssh such that it does not need a password to log in.

I wanted to support both.


-Chuck




From paulsid at home.com  Sat Aug 11 21:39:39 2001
From: paulsid at home.com (Paul Sidorsky)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:39:39 -0600
Subject: Python Web Site Copier?
Message-ID: <3B75DE5B.43A7B324@home.com>

Has anybody written a Python version of a utility like sitecopy?  (For
synchronizing a web site on a server with a copy maintained on one's hard
drive.)  From my search, I see that a few months ago somebody was working on a
Python wrapper for sitecopy, but I would prefer a pure-Python solution for a
variety of reasons (which I won't go into).

I am up to the job of writing my own but of course I don't want to if I don't
have to!

Thanks in advance.  My apologies if this isn't completely on topic.

-- 
======================================================================
Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
paulsid at home.com                      http://members.home.net/paulsid/



From b_duke at lacebark.ntu.edu.au  Fri Aug  3 23:21:02 2001
From: b_duke at lacebark.ntu.edu.au (Brian Salter-Duke)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:51:02 +0930
Subject: Error compiling on AIX 3.2.5
Message-ID: <20010804125101.A16521@lacebark.ntu.edu.au>

I am trying to update Python from 1.5 to 2.1.1 on a very old AIX box
that runs AIX 3.2.5. Ues, I know I should put it out in the back paddock
to spend the rest of its days, but I rather like it and it handles a lot
of stuff for me.

The compile ends with:-

cc -O -I. -I./Include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c ./Modules/posixmodule.c -o Modules/posixmodule.o
"./Include/longobject.h", line 38.44: 1506-114 (W) Duplicate length adjective long ignored.
"./Include/longobject.h", line 39.61: 1506-114 (W) Duplicate length adjective long ignored.
"./Include/longobject.h", line 40.13: 1506-114 (W) Duplicate length adjective long ignored.
"./Include/longobject.h", line 41.22: 1506-114 (W) Duplicate length adjective long ignored.
"./Modules/posixmodule.c", line 516.50: 1506-114 (W) Duplicate length adjective long ignored.
"./Modules/posixmodule.c", line 716.42: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier fsync.
make: *** [Modules/posixmodule.o] Error 1

I get the longobject.h warnings with several routines.

Can any one suggest what the problem is? And how to get aound it?

Cheers, Brian.
-- 
Brian Salter-Duke          Humpty Doo, Nr Darwin, Australia



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Aug  5 11:02:47 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 18:02:47 +0300
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <kuelqqr1m0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:

| What's tigetstr?

i would guess that it's a library function for accessing the terminfo
database.

  -- erno


From fred at arakane.com  Sun Aug 19 17:39:16 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:39:16 GMT
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <3B7E5390.C6966CAD@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <8mWf7.56554$MC1.19200751@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Michael Str?der" <michael at stroeder.com> wrote in message
news:3B7E5390.C6966CAD at stroeder.com...
> Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >
> > > i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure.
> > > seems kinda alot of work just to get a constant. even perl
> > > has "use constant" and thats about the ugliest language around :)
> >
> > The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> > constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> > enough for you.
>
> To avoid that another developer in the team changes the constant
> accidently?

And what about other definitions in the module global scope (classes,
functions...) ? Be consistent :))

Phython's name scoping rules and the import mechanisms make it that changing
the a reference in another module can't happen accidentaly.

Since I bet you won't agree, you'll quickly give a counter exemple proving
I'm wrong...

FG




From Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com  Tue Aug 14 17:29:59 2001
From: Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com (Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:29:59 -0500
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <008F695F.N22121@rsmi.com>

Terry J. Reedy writes -

>The division change (and some arguments pro and con) was formulated at
>least by November 98 (see 'Deja/vu').  Did VPython exist then?  (I
>have no idea.)

I believe that that discussion was in fact pre VPython, but post Alice.

The airtight case put forth is that the significance of VPython was in 
confirming
Alice's reports.

And the truth of the matter is that, stand-alone at least, the Alice concerns 
on the
div operator are credible and internally consistent.  It is geared to folk 
working
totally outside the realm of math, programming, science etc. Its whole ethic is

to 
insulate its users from complexity, at all and  any cost. 

Fork sounds right for them, IMO. 

The VPython reports particularly concern me because we are now saying that 
science
students working in the strictly numeric realm, with the Numeric tool, in which

is 
embedded a slew of rules and behaviors regarding the integer numeric type - 
has similar needs and experience as the Alice audience. Ain't so.  Anybody 
working
with VPython *needs* to understand the significance of numeric types.  And once

again,
the old div operator behavior was a great signpost and the least of their 
problems  -
particularly if they are going into it without clear instruction on what to 
expect.

It *will* be different in the unified numerical model days. But that ain't
next
semseter, for sure.

ART





From guido at python.org  Thu Aug  9 20:53:04 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:53:04 GMT
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> <mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org> <3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org> <9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> <9kuic9$515$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <cpvgjw91pa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman) writes:

> To me, a tuple isn't something that you iterate over.  A tuple is
> a lightweight record.  The equivalent of a struct i C, but with
> unnamed members.  The difference between lists and tuples isn't
> really that tuples are read-only, but in how they are used.
> 
> A list typically holds a number of homogeneous elements.  All
> elements are to be treated more or less the same.  The length
> of the list is often not fixed.  The elements of the list might
> be of different Python types or classes, 
> 
> The elements of a tuple, on the other hand, are heterogeneous.
> They might be of the same Python type, but they don't mean the
> same thing.  An example is the return value from time.gmtime():
> the elements are all integers, but they have vastly different
> meanings.  Coordinates is another example: the X, Y and Z
> coordinates in a three-dimensional room have distinct meanings,
> and it is seldom meaningful to iterate over the three values in a
> single coordinate triple and doing a certain operation on each of
> them.  In C you would implement a coordinate as
> 
>     struct coord_3d {
> 	double x,y,z;
>     };
> 
> not as
> 
>     typedef double coord_3d[3];
> 
> Sure, there are examples when you want to iterate over the
> elements in the struct/tuple, like when implementing matrix
> multiplication, but those are special cases, not the norm for
> how a tuple *should* be used.

Exactly.

Thanks for an excellent explanation of the difference between tuples
and lists!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  2 09:06:09 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 09:06:09 -0400
Subject: re bad leadership
References: <0+yM4IAgmKX7EwIQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9juspa$8p0$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <etd7kwmvcfy.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Malevolent Dictator For Life?

Alex.


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 28 08:56:12 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:56:12 -0500
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
In-Reply-To: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <15243.38124.214733.519822@beluga.mojam.com>

    ekul> has anyone setup zope on win98SE with an @home account? i'm having
    ekul> trouble with the http server, ftp works perfectly. i'm assuming
    ekul> that the problem has arrisen from the computer identification that
    ekul> @home requires. instead of a nice "name" for the http server, i
    ekul> get the elongated blah.blah.state.home.com that appears to lead
    ekul> the port :8080/manager address astray.

If you're looking for a stable name, check out dyndns.org or other services
like it that allow you to associate stable names with dynamic addresses.
Also, hopefully your server won't get much use.  @home is an asymmetric
connection.  Transfer rates from your machine to the net will be about 10x
slower than rates to your machine.  

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 18:50:01 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:50:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <15236.13613.12810.578878@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221845340.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>  [snip]
>
> All modules in those directories should have a valid __file__ attribute.  In
> addition, modules that are statically linked into the interpreter will not
> have a __file__ attribute, so you can't really tell if they are part of the
> core or a third-party extension that was statically linked into the
> interpreter.

Not true, strictly speaking:

>>> import imp
>>> imp.find_module('sys')[2][2]==imp.C_BUILTIN
1
>>> imp.find_module('sys')[2][2]==imp.C_EXTENSION
0
>>> imp.find_module('os')[2][2]==imp.C_EXTENSION
0
>>> imp.find_module('os')[2][2]==imp.PY_SOURCE
1
>>>

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>






From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 18:06:36 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:06:36 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <200108141906.f7EJ6iR11000@odiug.digicool.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 03:06:44PM -0400
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com> <20010814123207.D27040@starmedia.net> <200108141906.f7EJ6iR11000@odiug.digicool.com>
Message-ID: <20010814180636.R27040@starmedia.net>

On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 03:06:44PM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > From: Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com>
> 
> > Another question is: will you be able to inherit from C and get the same
> > behavior as the current situation where ideally this would work:
> > 
> > class meta:
> >     def __init__(self, klass, bases, dict):
> >         pass
> > 
> > class foo:
> >     __metaclass__ = meta
> > print 'foo is', foo  # foo *is* an meta instance
> > 
> > class bar(foo): pass # dies here
> 
> This dies because your meta is a classic class.  If you make it a
> new-style class by inheriting from object, it can be made to work by
> defining a __new__ method on the meta class.
> 
> But normally you would inherit meta from type, wouldn't you?

I hadn't thought to.  I was originally just trying to check whether
some already existing code (PyDO specifically) would work with 2.2 and
found out that it died very badly.

> > print 'bar is', bar  # would be lovely if bar was an instance of meta
> 
> Yes, this works.
> 
> Here's a small example that works in current CVS:
> 
>     class meta(object):
> 	def __new__(cls, name, bases, dict):
> 	    return object.__new__(cls)
> 	def __init__(self, name, bases, dict):
> 	    self.name, self.bases, self.dict = name, bases, dict
> 	def __repr__(self):
> 	    return "<meta instance %s>" % self.name
> 
>     class foo:
> 	__metaclass__ = meta
> 
>     print foo
> 
>     class bar(foo):
> 	pass
> 
>     print bar

Ahhh, perfect!  Exactly what I was looking for.

..snip..

> > I guess what I'm really trying to say is that for a library I
> > currently have using 2.1, currently the user can be totally ignorant
> > of the fact that they are not defining regular classes, but
> > metaclasses, and ideally, I'd like to keep it that way.
> 
> If you can smuggle a "__metaclass__ = type" into their namespace, you
> can get the same effect.

Actually, since they inherit the metaclass as a base class e.g.:
  class myDataClass(PyDO.PyDO):
I don't have to resort to such smugglery.

Now to try and figure out why (I've heard about this stuff) my __getattr__
function is going into recursive death.

Thanks,
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Aug 10 10:36:01 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <psou1zg595l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108100726360.508-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 10 Aug 2001, Christopher Barber wrote:

> > That's how C (mostly) killed assembler.  That's how relational
> > databases won.  Java is trying to ride the same trend.
>
> Actually, I don't think that processor speedup made much of a difference in
> the success of any of these technologies.

Hi Christopher, I'll have to respectfully disagree. ;-) Fast CPUs (along
with cheap memory and fixed storage) is what made their widespread
acceptance possible - it had _everything_ to do with their success. I
programmed in assembly because "equivalent" C programs were just too much
for my 640KB, 4.77MHz machine. And if I could have run a Java or Python
program on that machine... <shudder>. As processor speeds increase, the
drawbacks of using higher level languages and features magically
disappear.

-Dave




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Aug 16 12:24:55 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Dr. David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:24:55 -0400
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
Message-ID: <XP/e7kKkXM2d092yn@bellatlantic.net>                         

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
|Humans can't usually see the http response line with the actual 404 number
|in it in place of the 200 indicating an ok page, but machines can -- why
|don't you use that?

A couple reasons.  For one thing, my example was used to illustrate use
of some regular expressions.  But as an answer to the thread, that's
pretty weak :-).

Let's try again:  Because one might have previously crawled or proxied a
site, and want to figure out which downloaded pages are good (maybe not
using custom Python code for the crawling).  Not too bad.

But better still:

    #---------- check_url.py ----------#
    from httplib import HTTP
    from urlparse import urlparse

    def checkURL(url):
        p = urlparse(url)
        h = HTTP(p[1])
        h.putrequest('HEAD', p[2])
        h.endheaders()
        return h.getreply()

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        for url in ('http://msnbc.com/nonsense','http://msnbc.com/',
                    'http://w3c.org/','http://w3c.org/nonsense',
                    'http://w3c.org/Consortium/','http://ibm.com/',
                    'http://ibm.com/nonsense'):
            print url, checkURL(url)[:2]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    % python check_url.py
    http://msnbc.com/nonsense (200, 'OK')
    http://msnbc.com/ (302, 'Object moved')
    http://w3c.org/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
    http://w3c.org/nonsense (301, 'Moved Permanently')
    http://w3c.org/Consortium/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
    http://ibm.com/ (200, 'OK')
    http://ibm.com/nonsense (404, 'Not Found')

I tried a few sites to get these examples... but not all *that* many.
All the sites that end in 'nonsense' LOOK, to my human eyes, like broken
links... and all the others look like content (well, except msnbc.com,
which refuses to load--I think because I won't give it a cookie--and
wouldn't actually be other than nonsense if it would load :-)).



From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 17:45:19 2001
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:45:19 +0100
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com> <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com> <1oqcots7lbmcsk7ossdkfbcr7dfqd33kvf@4ax.com> <3B886789.9030406@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <lmdlotko67s5tqacp1pa2a09f4cfa2424u@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:03:00 GMT, Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote:

>This is kinda-of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

*That* sounds exactly true...

>I think the 
>correct answer is for the program itself to install its own Ctrl+C 
>handler - this should be possible from Python itself.

But I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Are you saying that my Python
program, which calls a COM component's Sleep() method, should be able to
establish a Ctrl-C handler which will pick up Ctrl-C and interrupt the sleep? I
thought that the KeyboardInterrupt handler was meant to be that? Or do you mean
SetConsoleCtrlHandler? How can I get access to that from Python?

[Sorry - that sounds like one of those "please tell me what to do so I don't
have to think" posts. I don't mean it like that - I'm just not 100% sure I
understand the issues and what's going on, so I'm floundering a bit...]

Thanks,
Paul


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 14 00:56:03 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:56:03 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Dynamic attribute introspection
In-Reply-To: <cpelqfe20g.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140850190.4760-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>please refer to the tutorial at http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html.

Well. Here we see "register" keyword equivalent:

   This is not always what you want; in particular, using a separate
   dictionary to hold a single instance variable doubles the memory used
   by a defaultdict instance compared to a regular dictionary instance.
   There's a way to avoid this:
    class defaultdict2(dictionary):

        __slots__ = ['default']

        def __init__(self, default=None):
        ...(like before)...

   The __slots__ declaration takes a list of instance variables, and
   reserves space for exactly these in the instance. When __slots__ is

This, without any sarcasms, suggests Python is moving toward
declarations.

I cant see why __dynamic__ must be used when classes can be
non-dynamic simply when they have __slots__.

While the builtin objects have slots anyway, why this low-level details
should be used outside the introspection context?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/




From oliphant.travis at ieee.org  Sat Aug 11 14:27:06 2001
From: oliphant.travis at ieee.org (Travis Oliphant)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:27:06 +0000
Subject: Yet another Numeric Swig core dump problem
References: <3B732140.7040609@erols.com>
Message-ID: <9l4iao$mqm$1@news.xmission.com>

Edward C. Jones wrote:

> The following Python / SWIG / Numeric program dumps core. I use RedHat
> Linux on a PC. Python 2.1, Numeric 20.0.0, SWIG 1.1 build 883, gcc 2.96.
> 
> The output looks like:
> 
>  > testdb.py
> called import_array
> L11
> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
>  >KLTfeatures.KLTSelectGoodFeatures()
>  >
> 
> The program files are:
> 
> -----------
> testdb.py:
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python
> 
> import Numeric, KLTfeatures
> 
> KLTfeatures.KLTSelectGoodFeatures()
> 
> -----------
> KLTfeatures.h:
> 
> #include "Python.h"
> #include "/usr/include/python2.1/Numeric/arrayobject.h"
> 
> void KLTSelectGoodFeatures(void);
> 
> -----------
> KLTfeatures.i:
> 
> %module KLTfeatures
> 
> %{
> #include "KLTfeatures.h"
> %}
> 
> %init %{
>      import_array();
>      printf("called import_array\n");
> 
> %}
> 
> void KLTSelectGoodFeatures(void);
> 
> -----------
> KLTfeaturesmodule.c:
> 
> #include "KLTfeatures.h"
> 
> void KLTSelectGoodFeatures()
> {    PyArrayObject *pao;
>      int dims[2];
> 
>      dims[0] = 100;
>      dims[1] = 200;
>      printf("L11\n");
>      pao = (PyArrayObject*) PyArray_FromDims(2, dims, PyArray_UBYTE);
>      printf("L17\n");
>      Py_DECREF(pao);
> }
> 
> ----------
> How to compile:
> 
> swig -python KLTfeatures.i
> gcc -c -Wall KLTfeaturesmodule.c KLTfeatures_wrap.c
> -I/usr/include/python2.1 ld -shared KLTfeaturesmodule.o KLTfeatures_wrap.o
> -o KLTfeatures.so
> 


import_array must be in the file that is accessing the C-API for Numeric.

You are using PyArray_FromDims in a file without the import_array statement.

A quick hack is to place import_array in the KLTfeatures file.

A better way is to use some defines appropriately as described by Paul 
Dubois (I'm not sure exactly how to do it).  

-Travis



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  1 17:36:38 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 17:36:38 -0400
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108010342.22378ae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ug0bbihsp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:

> I feel that most of the "noise" on this issue could have been avoided
> had the intentions of the developers been communicated clearly from
> the start. To see a patch for some radical new functionality being
> issued against an upcoming release, with only scant justification for
> its inclusion and little *evident* consideration for the damage
> possible to existing code, is almost guaranteed to scare and anger
> people.

Nah, the flamefest would probably have happened anyway.  This had the
unfortunate happenstance of being a change that was going to break
backwards compatibility in a feature that was basic and widely-used
enough for everyone to have an opinion on.  Toss in some typical
Usenet hyperbole in any such event, and you've got just the right mix
to sit back and toast marshmellows :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From garry at sage.att.com  Thu Aug  9 18:00:11 2001
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:00:11 GMT
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <25b2e0d9.0107291052.7780d1f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7307EB.297F2EF3@sage.att.com>

gods1child wrote:
> 
> All this heated discussion over floats has led me to wonder if we need
> to lighten up a little bit and celebrate the fact that were close to
> 100,000 (94,100 as of this moment) messages on this news-group

94,100?  is that cumulative, or just today?
it sometimes seems like the latter.

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   sometimes we ride on your horses
Senior Hacker                   sometimes we walk alone
Software Innovation Services    sometimes the songs that we hear
AT&T Labs                       are just songs of our own
garry at sage.att.com


From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Wed Aug  8 12:44:58 2001
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (gyromagnetic at excite.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:44:58 GMT
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
Message-ID: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1>

Hi,
I am a relative newbie to Python, so this question may be quite naive.
Is there a way to 'map' methods to a list of items?

For a simple example, suppose that I want to convert the items in a
list to uppercase. Currently, I might do something like
>>> import string
>>> val=['abc', 'def', 'ghi']
>>> map(string.upper, val)
['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']

Is there a way to map the .upper method to these items? Something
like, for example,
>>>>map(?.upper, val). 

I think that map currently works by applying a function to each of the
items in the list, but would it be useful for 'map' to be able to take
a method instead of a function?

-Brad 


From peter.milliken at gtech.com  Wed Aug 29 02:25:46 2001
From: peter.milliken at gtech.com (Peter Milliken)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:25:46 +1000
Subject: Why use Python?
References: <Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <9mi1uv$1t83@news1.gtech.com>

Well there you go - you at least have some comparision between Python and
other languages. So lets turn the question around - Why would you want to
use VB for Windows programming instead of Python? I haven't seen any
comparisions between VB and any other language.


"CoffeeKid" <coffeekid at pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160 at news.pacbell.net...
> Can somebody tell me why I would want to use Python over VB
> for Windows programming?  I've seen several comparisons between
> Python and other language but not VB yet.
>
> -CoffeeKid
>
>




From breakfast at 10.am  Thu Aug 30 19:12:11 2001
From: breakfast at 10.am (mallum)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:12:11 +0100
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301617580.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <20010830210625.A320@10.am> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301617580.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <20010831001211.A325@10.am>

on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:24:13PM -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> I don't think that you could squish it in there even using static linking.
> 
> But does it at least work properly if you do link it against glibc?
> 

Static linking could well be the next step to take. I have a
microdrive which I can plug into the device and get a gig of space. I
really need a way of poking in and see what Python is actually doing
on load. 

If your interested, heres the target platform;

http://www.tuxscreen.net

mallum



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 10 12:51:21 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:51:21 -0700
Subject: Manually printing traceback?
References: <slrn9n18po.19r.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <3B741109.99A456A5@ccvcorp.com>

Andrei Kulakov wrote:

> Hello,
>
> If I run this code: l = []; print l[1], I get a traceback.
> If I change it to:
>
> import sys
> l = []
> try: print l[1]
> except:
>     print sys.exc_info()
>
> I get a tuple, 3rd element of which is the traceback object. How do i print
> it? I tried doing

> >>>print sys.exc_info()[2]()  ....

Your question has already been answered, but I thought I'd point this out.

The reason that your above attempt isn't working, is you've got an exra ()
there.  If:

>>> e = sys.exc_info()    # returns a tuple

>>> print e   # prints the full tuple, equivalent to your first except: clause

>>> print e[2]   # prints only the third element of that tuple

What you were trying to do is equivalent to

>>> print e[2]()  # attempts to use the third element as a callable object
(function), and then print the result.

This is unlikely to work, as I doubt that traceback objects are callable.  :)
You *could*, however,

>>> print sys.exc_info()[2]

without the extra parens, and that should work as you expected.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 24 16:07:48 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:07:48 -0400
Subject: Installing packages into PythonWin
References: <mailman.998613696.18395.python-list@python.org> <3b8670f7.215242572@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <Yryh7.18884$54.997314@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Mats Wichmann" <mats at laplaza.org> wrote in message
news:3b8670f7.215242572 at news.laplaza.org...
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:39:44 -0700, "Brian Quinlan"
> <BrianQ at ActiveState.com> wrote:
>
> :> I am having trouble installing a package (specifically the
> :> Python Imaging Library) into PythonWin. Copying the files
> :> into the Lib/sites-packages directory did not install the
> :> PIL automatically, I eventully got it to work by manually
> :> adding the PIL location to the Python path. I am sure that
> :> the sites-packages trick worked on the generic (ie non
> :> Active State) Python distribution, and it adds directories
> :> to the Python path depending on the contents of and files
> :> with extension .pth that are in the sites-packages
> :> directory.
> :
> :site-packages is not part of the Python path on Windows. There is a
> :PEP that is scheduled for Python 2.2 that seeks to rectify that but
> :you will have to hack around it for now:
> :http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0250.html
>
> I believe people generally drop their packages into the top-level
> Python directory.  That's where my PIL, Numeric, Scientific, and other
> things went.  Since that's a little harder to maintain, the PEP seeks
> to allow putting them in home of their own.  I wouldn't necessarily go
> hacking on site.py to implement the PEP, every time I've done that
> I've forgotten about it when I move code to a new system.
> Mats Wichmann
>
That's what sitecustomize.py is for: you can usually port that form version
to version quite easily.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 15:47:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:47:30 -0500
Subject: Python version dilemma
In-Reply-To: <9me54u$4a3$1@flood.xnet.com>
References: <9me54u$4a3$1@flood.xnet.com>
Message-ID: <15242.41938.912372.356848@beluga.mojam.com>

    > I have a set of scripts that use 2.1 syntax.  Now, I'd really like
    > these scripts to, when run by the 1.5 interpreter, gracefully state
    > that version 2 is required.  However, my code fails during the
    > compilation stage with the 1.5 interpreter (SyntaxError's and such),
    > and so never gets the chanced to execute a code portion that might
    > print a pretty (or at least useful) error message.

What you might want to do is push your version dependent code into separate
modules.  Suppose your module is named "mod".  In mod.py do this:

    try:
      from mod21 import *
    except SyntaxError:
      from mod15 import *

Alternatively, you could just push code into _mod and print a diagnostic if
you get a SyntaxError:

    try:
      from _mod import *
    except SyntaxError:
      print "requires Python 2.1 features"
      raise SystemExit

Of course, you can embellish either of these solutions any way you like.
I've used a solution similar to my first example just within my own
pythonrc.py stuff (I have a fairly heavyweight interactive startup), so that
I can get all the little ditties I'm used to in either Python 1.6 or 2.1.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 12:06:05 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:06:05 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lu0te02m4b@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Tist Verdonck" <tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d at posting.google.com...
> Is there a way to loop through the keys of a dictionary (whitout using
> a list containing all those keys)?

In Python up to 2.1, the statement:
    for key in mydict.keys():
        print key
does something like you're asking, but it IS using a
list of all the keys -- the one that method keys()
returns.  It's probably OK for your purposes, but does
not exactly meet the letter of your request.

In Python 2.2, currently in Alpha,

    for key in mydict:
        print key

should do exactly what you require, to the letter.


Alex





From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 14:28:07 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:28:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <9mltb0$2me8$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301423540.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:

> > You say it uses a "heavy" dedicated client. What do you mean by that?
>
> A serie of back-office tools (sync with production traditional system) that
> don't execute through a browser (console or traditional GUI or croned blind
> apps)

Ugh. You don't necessarily want PHP for that. PHP is fine when the normal GET
and POST methods are used, but if you're just going to use HTTP to pass data
back and forth then you're better off using something that has a better
concept of "standard input". PHP can use "f=open('php://stdin')", but I would
prefer to use Python. You also may end up finding that PHP runs into limits
which Python would just breeze over.

IOW, PHP is great where there is a browser. There's no browser in this case,
so just pass over it.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 12:18:51 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:18:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Proposal: comp.lang.python.division ? [was: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians]
References: <mailman.997890924.5805.python-list@python.org> <slrn9nl84l.1ev.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FEAF1A47011duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in
news:slrn9nl84l.1ev.grante at grante.comtrol.com: 

> In article <mailman.997890924.5805.python-list at python.org>, Steven D.
> Majewski wrote: 
>> On 15 Aug 2001, Alex wrote:
>> Maybe it's time to split the newsgroup :      
>> comp.lang.python.division, anyone ? 
> 
> I notice you didn't suggest that we divide the newsgroup...
> 
Naturally he didn't, since dividing 1 newsgroup into 2 would leave some of 
us with 0 newsgroups.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 18:53:09 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:53:09 -0400
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <9mh578$u9a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <1fVi7.60490$54.3286443@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu> wrote in message
news:9mh578$u9a$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> In article <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545 at pollux.casema.net>,
>  "jeroen paul goudsmit" <diedanootdie at danoot.com> wrote:
>
> >I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language
for
> >me to use. is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?
> >I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
> >like it. If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a
python
> >sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")
> >Is python hard to learn? And is there a dutch person in this group? If
there
> >is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.
> >Could you please answer my questions?
>
> The bad news is Python does not include an integrated GUI with a nice
> graphical builder and all that. Hence if you use Visual Basic mostly for
> simple GUIs than you may find Python a bit of a struggle. However,
> Python does talk to various GUI tool kits (as others have mentioned).
> Since it sounds like you've been doing windows programming, I recommend
> starting with wxPython (and there are some GUI builders for that, none
> of which I've used). wxPython works on under various windows and unix
> variants, and may eventually run on the Mac.
>
You should also be aware that the integration betwen Python and Windows is
so strong, thanks in large part to Mark Hammond, that you can quite easily
write programs in Python and have them communicate with GUI fornt ends
written in VB. "Programming Python on Win32", by Mark Hammond and Andy
Robinson, has some great integration examples in it.

Get stuck in. The more you do, the more you'll like Python.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From me at charliedaniels.com-1.net  Wed Aug  8 11:33:47 2001
From: me at charliedaniels.com-1.net (chajadan)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:33:47 GMT
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
References: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b715b93.7684560@news.mailops.com>

I too would like to know how to do this. I don't want to have to
restart PyWin each time I have made changes to certain things.

say for example I change a module and want to reload it, but imported
it thus:

from my_module import *

How do I reload the * from my_module?

Right now I just close and restart.

--chajadan

On 6 Aug 2001 15:09:07 -0700, benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Sorry to bother the group with such a trivial Q but for some reason I
>can not find an answer to this in the docs ... how does one 'clear'
>the Python environment .... so all loaded modules and variables are
>freed? (ie return the Python environment back to its initial state at
>start up) I assumed it would have been in the sys module?
>
>thanking you in advance



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 04:11:05 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:11:05 +0200
Subject: What is a Function?
References: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9lijhf01013@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Patio87" <patio87 at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010817033349.14357.00003437 at mb-mi.aol.com...
> What is a function?

It depends a bit on the context in which one asks -- the
mathematical definition, for example, doesn't quite match
the concept of function in most programming languages.

In Python, a function is an object with several important
attributes:
    a function-name string
    a function-doc string
    most important, a code-object, which has:
        a tuple of 0 or more 'arguments', each of which has
            a name string
        a tuple of 0 or more other local variables, each of
            which has a name string
    possibly, default values for 0 or more arguments
    a reference to the dictionary of a module that supplies
        its globals
    possibly a reference to the enclosing-function
    possibly other user-defined attributes

e.g., consider:

>>> def f(x,y=23): print x,y
...

Now, f refers to a function object.  Let's see what it has:

>>> dir(f)
['__dict__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'func_closure', 'func_code',
'func_defaults'
, 'func_dict', 'func_doc', 'func_globals', 'func_name']

Wow, lots of stuff.  Well, many are two names for the same thing,
e.g. in the order we used above:

>>> f.__name__
'f'
>>> f.func_name
'f'

So these are both the function-name string, here 'f'.
The key thing:
>>> f.func_code
<code object f at 0079B9A0, file "<stdin>", line 1>
Also:
>>> f.func_defaults
(23,)
and:
>>> f.func_globals
{'f': <function f at 0079A8AC>, '__doc__': None, '__name__': '__main__',
'__buil
tins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>}

The other attributes of f are None in this case -- no dictionary (since
no user-defined attributes), no doc (we didn't give a documentation
string), no closure (it's not nested in any other function), so we won't
worry about them.

So let's look at the code object:

>>> c=f.func_code
>>> dir(c)
['co_argcount', 'co_cellvars', 'co_code', 'co_consts', 'co_filename',
'co_firstl
ineno', 'co_flags', 'co_freevars', 'co_lnotab', 'co_name', 'co_names',
'co_nloca
ls', 'co_stacksize', 'co_varnames']

Again, lots of stuff!  Most important:

>>> c.co_argcount
2
>>> c.co_names
('x', 'y')
>>> c.co_code
'\x7f\x01\x00\x7f\x01\x00|\x00\x00G|\x01\x00GHd\x00\x00S'
>>>

Two arguments, their names, and a binary string of bytecode ready
for the interpreter.  We can look at the latter in more detail, too:

>>> import dis
>>> dis.disassemble(c)
          0 SET_LINENO               1

          3 SET_LINENO               1
          6 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
          9 PRINT_ITEM
         10 LOAD_FAST                1 (y)
         13 PRINT_ITEM
         14 PRINT_NEWLINE
         15 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         18 RETURN_VALUE

But that's getting into a bit too much detail, I think.


Alex





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Aug 28 23:57:56 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:57:56 -0700
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.999031543.25940.python-list at python.org...
> On 28 Aug 2001, Bryan Olson wrote:
>
> > I've done a Google search and found that others have had the same
> > problem I'm having.  Any upgrade of Python, even from 2.0 to 2.1, breaks
> > extension modules.  I'm working on MS-Windows, and the extension cannot
> > find python20.dll, which is not surprising because it was replace with
> > python21.dll.  I suppose I could put back the old DLL, but I don't know
> > what that would do, since the rest of the system is using the newer DLL.
> >
> > I don't the workings of Windows DLL's are to blame; Unix shared
> > libraries would have the same problem.
>
> Actually they don't. In the Unix version the .so's link back to the
> executable; presumably they don't do that in Windows. Does anyone know
why?

Yes, as a matter of fact. The design goals for Unix and Windows were totally
different. Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so
modules are private resources once they're loaded. Under Windows, they
are shared resources - the same physical memory copy can be used
simultaniously by multiple users, and appears in multiple address spaces.
Consequently, it's impossible for them to link back. Also, much of the
thinking that went into the mechanisms came from CORBA, where they
wanted to run an application on one system, and link to a module on
another system.

> > If the interface to Python extensions actually changed, then certainly
> > there's no avoiding updating the extensions.  The current system is much
> > worse; any upgrade to Python breaks extensions, in many cases
> > needlessly.
> >
> > I don't think that giving different versions of dynamic libraries the
> > same name, such as "python.dll", is a good idea.  It would just cause
> > other problems.
>
> Not nearly as many problems as 5 different versions of msvcrt40.dll ;)
>
> > So here's my proposal for a solution: don't make the extension load the
> > library.  When the interpreter loads the extension, it should give it a
> > pointer through which it can find all the library objects. The pointer
> > could just be the system-dependent library pointer/handle, but more
> > elegant would be a table of functions, defined the same on all
> > platforms.

I agree. This would solve the problem rather neatly.

> What should happen is that the extensions under Windows should have the
same
> behaviour as extensions on Unix; they should reach back to the executable
for
> run-time bindings. IIRC, the DllMain() function is passed the handle of
the
> executable when the DLL is loaded; at that point the bindings should be
done.

As I mentioned above, it can't be done, at least without implementing a
completely
independent loader. I'd much rather see development resources go to
something
more useful.

> > I think the change could be made without forcing code changes to
> > extensions (though of course they'd need one last re-compile).  We just
> > have to change the statically-linked stubs library.  We need one
> > function that always gets linked in, and that the interpreter will call
> > with the function-table pointer.  The utility functions that the library
> > offers would be stubs that get the function pointers from the table, and
> > call through them.
> >
> > Of course we should think this through and try to find a way to
> > negotiate versions, so that extensions last as long as possible.
> >
> >
> > Is this idea PEP-worthy?

Go for it. Anything that saves me from having to distribute a new version
of extension DLLs when it's technically unnecessary is a great idea.

John Roth

> > --Bryan
>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>
>




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug 16 10:25:16 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:25:16 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:26:23 +0200."
             <3b7bca91$0$97142$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> 
Message-ID: <m15XO5E-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

"Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:

> Another option would be to add a new infix operator to the language
> with the same precedence as /. Something with a long clunky name, like
> "__oldstyle_divide__", whose only raison d'?tre is compatibility
> hacks. Changing
>     E1 / E2
> to
>     E1 __oldstyle_divide__ E2
> doesn't require deep parsing.

Do you really want to replace things like

    """...text and/or more text..."""

by

    """...text and__oldstyle_divide__or more text..."""

???

OTOH, literal strings like "period / 2" might need replacement. And
how about comments?

Applying brute force replacement to Python code is rarely a good idea. 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 25 22:45:54 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:45:54 -0400
Subject: get the output of a cmd via popen2
References: <9m9f3p$11ggd$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3B8862E2.7BAC8540@engcorp.com>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> 
> i,o = os.popen2(cmd)
> 
> where cmd is the string that represents the command. But on printing o all
> I get is an object representation like:
> 
> <open file '(fdopen)', mode 'r' at 0x810d9f8>
> 
> Any suggestions as to whats going wrong and how to fix it?

Nothing is going wrong.  This is what is supposed to happen.

Except that you haven't finished yet... you are supposed 
to take 'o' and read from it, exactly as you would have
if you had stored the output in a file ahead of time and
were now trying to read it in using open() and read().

>>> import os
>>> i,o = os.popen2('type c:\\autoexec.bat')
>>> print o.read()
@ECHO OFF
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
call c:\bin\basepath c:\bin c:\jdk1.2\bin
set temp=c:\temp
set tmp=%temp%
set dircmd=/ogn
set home=c:\users\peter
set pythonhome=c:\a\python
doskey >nul

Note that you could also use readline() or readlines(),
or many other things which work on readable files.

The 'i' variable contains a reference to a writable
file object, which lets you send input to the command
you are running, if it expects any.

Basically, 'i' connects you to the stdin of the command,
and 'o' connects you to the stdout of the command, but
it's up to you to write to and read from those file
objects.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 09:27:05 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:27:05 +0100
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <4O1PEhAvgKj7EwqO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.999084703.13690.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kq0IdJAp2Oj7Ewr6@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.999084703.13690.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio
Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes
....
>
>No, because if a program depends on 2.0 working a certain way then it would
>break anyways with 2.1, so we'd be back where we were.
>
well then it would break in unix as well so there'd be no advantage.
Some of my extensions don't get very deep and look like they would work
OK from 1.5.2 to 2.1. Problem is all those function call like usages are
often macros and make things more dependent so I'm fairly confident
things would actually break.
-- 
Robin Becker


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 20 15:07:07 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:07:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Installing mod_python.dll under Apache
In-Reply-To: <9lrmli+3f42@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201502160.11734-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 paul at gudge.demon.co.uk wrote:

> I've read a simialr thread on installing python under cgi but I want
> to Python installed with the module so I can use Python in-line with
> the html, like PHP.
>
> I have downloaded mod_python.dll and it is now successfully loading
> but when I goto a .py file the contents of the .py file are printed
> to screen and not processed by Python.
>
> Do I need to add the AddType line? if so how would the line look?
>
> please help, it's been bugging me for 2 days now.
>
> regards,
>
> pgudge

I took a look at mod_python myself because I was interested in not having the
interpreter loaded each time. What I discovered was that mod_python does NOT
work in a method similar to mod_php. Read
http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.6/doc-html/tut-what-it-do.html
and take a look at the part at the bottom that reads 'Some food for thought'.
I have been thinking of using FastCGI instead, but haven't got around to it
yet.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From sergo at mail.biysk.ru  Mon Aug 27 12:04:14 2001
From: sergo at mail.biysk.ru (Sergei N. Maslennikov)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:04:14 +0700
Subject: encoding
Message-ID: <15846473395.20010827230414@mail.biysk.ru>

Dear python-list,

How to convert a string from any national encoding to another? For
example from cp866 to cp1251.

-- 
Thanks,
Sergei




From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Mon Aug  6 08:08:31 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 14:08:31 +0200
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
Message-ID: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like

  for(i=0; i<lastI; i++) {
    justDoIt(i);
    if( someTest(i) ) break;
  }
  /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
  for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
    doSomethingElse(i);
  }       

The nice thing is that this is safe even if someTest never becomes
true in the first loop.

How would I do that in python, in particular when looping over list
elements rather than just over numbers.

  Harald Kirsch
P.S.: Please no `while 1:' solutions. I hate them.

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:12:46 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:12:46 +0200
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
References: <mailman.997479316.22776.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4itfudhwh.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> Then you're relying on file extension associations, and they're a global
> shared resource on Windows:  the most recently installed Python "wins".  We
> can't hide that from you:  that's how Windows works (with the possible
> exception of Win2K, where you *could* create a different user account for
> each version of Python, each with its own file associations; that isn't
> possible before Win2K, and would be a total PITA under Win2K anyway).

Although I wish there was a little script to "make this Python
installation current". It is not only what interpreter is associated
with the Run command, but also which Pythonwin (or whatever) is
associated with the Edit command.

Something like "Python 2.0 is not your default Python interpreter. Do
you want to make it default?" with a check box "Always check on
startup", you get the idea :-)

Regards,
Martin


From guido at python.org  Sun Aug 12 15:11:39 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:11:39 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> I don't see how that would help -- maybe I'm being thick.  How would
> the uninitialized C instance automatically initialize itself at need?

For example, you could have a __getattr__ that initialized the thing
as soon as it is touched.

> Let me give a real-life example (it was not done in Python, but it would
> have been so much simpler if it had).

I see your reputation for being verbose is not a fable. ;-)

This pattern can be programmed in lots of ways -- changing class is
just one way, and not necessarily the best.

Note that Python's dynamicism also allows other solutions to be coded
more efficiently than in C++ -- e.g. coding a proxy in Python is a
breeze using dynamic method lookup.

> > I'd rather not because it's a complicated check to write, and it may
> > be difficult to explain the restrictions.  Here's an example of the
> > kind of restriction that is unavoidable.
> 
> Doesn't this fall into an "identity of slots" case?  If the __class__
> can be changed only when the slots of the old and new class
> are identical, isn't this decently easy to check and explain?

That's the check I meant.  The problem is that the info about which
slots are defined is spread all over the place, and some of it
(e.g. slots accessed only in C) is not available for introspection.

> > I'm not sure what that means, but if you could live with weak
> > references, we could easily add a way to change the referent of a weak
> > reference object.
> 
> Now THAT might help in my case -- the UI server would hand out
> to the AE *weak* references to the Dialogs, and change the
> referent when needed.  The only issue would seem to be the
> very fact that the reference is weak -- what is going to hold the
> dialog object[s] alive just as long as the AE has some reference[s]
> to that object and then garbage-collect them?  Maybe, as well as
> changing the weak reference's referent, we need a way to ask
> for a weak reference that isn't really weak -- one that DOES keep
> the referent alive -- but IS 'reseatable'.  If such not-really-weak
> references (plus maybe some indeed-weak ones) were all the
> extant references to the object, then 'becomes' could be
> implemented for that case, and I believe this might be OK
> for the cases I have in mind.

I imagine you could probably do this the way persistency is typically
done, but I haven't thought about it that much.

> Absolutely no objection to THIS: if a mechanism is provided, then
> having it be more explicit to afford greater performance in the
> normal case seems quite OK to me.  What I'm afraid of (regarding
> the change of __class__) is the risk of being left without ANY
> simple and workable mechanism for tasks that, while perhaps
> rare, are very important.

It was introduced in Python 1.5, and I never really missed it before
-- I just added it because I noticed it was easy to add.  I think it's
not even documented, or if it is (I couldn't find it) it's marked
experimental.  I still think there are other ways of accomplishing the
same effect, maybe using a proxy pattern.

> (Regarding the __dynamic__=1, as discussed on another post, I have a
> different issue, namely, what should the default be; it seems to me
> that builtins being immutable as a default, and only changed via
> explicit mechanisms, is a fine match for the patterns of normal
> code, but *classes* being immutable by default and needing explicit
> turning off of this optimization isn't quite as smooth).

A dynamic class will be slower than a static class, so I prefer having
to request this explicitly.  But we can certainly quibble about that!
I expect that the new facilities will be seriously user-tested only
after 2.2 is released, and experience will learn how often people are
changing class variables.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From nospam at ihatespam.com  Wed Aug  8 11:50:26 2001
From: nospam at ihatespam.com (CCLittle)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:50:26 -0400
Subject: word wrap in activepython 2.1
Message-ID: <H9dc7.1639$96.1523@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

Hello, how do I enable word wrapping in active python 2.1?  It's really
difficult to look at long lists this way.  Thanks.

Kevin




From Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au  Wed Aug 22 03:59:26 2001
From: Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au (Bart Bartels)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:59:26 +1000
Subject: Facilities Management software
References: <3B7DC46E.B422C7E8@vu.edu.au> <07d501c12798$9675f670$a800a8c0@orange> <3B807CF2.F320A6AF@vu.edu.au> <006f01c12939$3fa88d10$a800a8c0@orange>
Message-ID: <3B83665E.14B001E0@vu.edu.au>

G'Day Kenneth

I think that starting simple might be the go.  If we get something happening
then the feed back will assist in guiding the development.

> > -    record job requests

Get info:
    Who called
    Contact details :- phone/email, department
    What the problem is
    Where the problem is :- building, room

> > -    track job requests

Allocate task: (this would be the facilities staff)
    to trademan/technician
    authorised/assigned by
    priority
    start date/time
    finish by date/time

> >-    provide feedback to job requester

Email response back outlining when task allocated and to whom?

> > -    close job request

On completion by trade, record
    Time taken hours/minutes
    material cost $
    email to originator that the task is complete

> > -    enter additional data on job

Allocate to budget
record misc. info if any

> > -    trends and histories

Be able to generate reports in a freeform manner i.e. no predefined reports

> This is exactly what we want, but we need to have the details more specific,
> so we could work on the process model.
>
> cheers, Kenneth

Is this what you wanted?

Bart



From rholmsprint7-NOSPAM at earthlink.net  Thu Aug  2 22:29:12 2001
From: rholmsprint7-NOSPAM at earthlink.net (Rich Holm)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:29:12 GMT
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <8beb91f5.0107280407.5a30341d@posting.google.com> <3B62FAFF.BB987077@Lugoj.Com> <mailman.996347633.4448.python-list@python.org> <8beb91f5.0107282158.4785ae5e@posting.google.com> <UK2E1VAMB+Y7EwX$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.15d39cc895657c17989680@news.earthlink.net>

In article <mailman.996429234.13926.python-list at python.org>, 
paulp at ActiveState.com says...
> 
>  * C++ was promoted by Microsoft as the standard way to do GUIs on
> Windows
> 


I don't want to start a flame fest, but...

Where did you hear this?  It was Borland that popularized the C++
on Windows paradym.  Microsoft was WAS behind the curve at the time.
The Borland class libraries were/are vastly superior to MFC.  Too
bad they lost out in the end.

Cheers,
Rich



From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug  1 17:35:46 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 21:35:46 GMT
Subject: Python code to express a large integer in words?
References: <3B66EDD0.62196C8D@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3b687081.1013941991@wa.news.verio.net>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:41:35 +0100, ptah <ptah at mjs400.co.uk> wrote:

>For interest I have included code below from the as400network Club Tech
>iSeries Programming Tips - 06.21.01 it is written in IBM RPG IV and is a
>kind of DLL (we call them service programs) that does the above, I would
>like to see how much more succinct a Python equivalent could be, purely
>because I would like to jump ship and code in something more expressive
>and need to put the case for Python to people who are not in the habit
>of thinking in an abstract way ;)
>
This stuff exists, but I did this to look similar to the logic of your
program, although I chose to collapse the table of 100 names a little
and not use a text string to test for hundreds etc. If you add names
to the Grps list (that's all ;-) you should get extended naming
capability for bigger numbers. It should tell you to do that if needed.
Does that make it a self-modifying program? ;-)

Bear in mind that inputs in floating format only have about 15 digits
of accuracy, but you can enter longs. Exact powers of ten can go
to 1e22 accurately because of the trailing binary 0's:
 >>> long(1e22)
 10000000000000000000000L
 >>> long(1e23)
 99999999999999991611392L
so that's an easy way to type tests for the group names.
If you want a 1.5.2 version, you'll have to change += to append
and do int() on longs used as subscripts, and change ''.join()

____________________________________________________________
#!/usr/bin/python
# engnum.py prints number names
# just add names to Grps list to extend naming capability
# Runs on Python 2.1 but has syntax beyond 1.5.2

Words = [
    'fnord','one','two','three','four',     # (fnord is place holder)
    'five','six','seven','eight','nine',
    'ten','eleven','twelve','thirteen','fourteen',
    'fifteen','sixteen','seventeen','eighteen','nineteen']

Words10 = [
    'fnord','fnord','twenty','thirty','forty',
    'fifty','sixty','seventy','eighty','ninety']

Grps = ['','thousand','million','billion','trillion']

MaxGrps = len(Grps)

def CvtNbrToWords( Nbr ):
    if Nbr == 0: return 'zero'
    num = long(Nbr)
    if num != Nbr:
        raise ArithmeticError,"Integral value required."
    if abs(num)>= 1000L**MaxGrps:
        raise ArithmeticError, \
            "To see, add name(s) after %s in Grps list of %s." % (Grps[-1], sys.argv[0])
    if num < 0:
        RtnWords = ['negative']
        num = -num
    else:
        RtnWords = []
    
    for grp in xrange(MaxGrps):
        grpFactor, num = divmod( num, 1000L**(MaxGrps-1-grp ) )
        if grpFactor:
            hundreds, tens = divmod(grpFactor, 100)
            if hundreds:
                RtnWords += [Words[hundreds],'hundred']
            if 0<tens<20:
                RtnWords.append(Words[tens])
            elif tens>0:
                tens, units = divmod( tens, 10)
                if tens and units:
                    RtnWords += [Words10[tens]+'-'+Words[units]]
                elif tens:
                    RtnWords += Words10[tens]
                elif units:
                    RtnWords += Words[units]
            RtnWords += [(Grps[MaxGrps-1-grp])]
        quot = num

    return ' '.join(RtnWords)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
        try:
            print ("%10s =>" % (arg,)), CvtNbrToWords(eval(arg))
        except ArithmeticError, e:
            print e
        except Exception, e:
            print e
            print "Usage: %s numbers... for number names in English" % sys.argv[0]
            sys.exit(1)    
_________________________________________________________________


From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Aug 17 17:20:48 2001
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:20:48 -0700
Subject: ANN: PythonCard prototype release 0.4.1
References: <_mUe7.524$LI5.191023@news.uswest.net> <3B7D8191.37669573@astro.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <dUff7.522$q86.92449@news.uswest.net>

Sorry, I don't have an exact date for you. I'm evangelizing as best I can.

What I do know is that there is a development port of wxWindows 2.3.1 for
MacOS 9.x and MacOS X.
http://www.wxwindows.org/

I know of at least one program that is supposed to be using wxWindows on the
Mac
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Since a stable wxWindows 2.3.x port to MacOS 9.x and MacOS X is the first
step in getting wxPython ported, this is good news. I'm not a Mac user
myself anymore, so I can't vouch for the quality of the existing port, but I
want to see it happen probably as bad as many Mac users. Any Mac developers
that can lend a hand in getting the wxPython port completed should contact
Robin Dunn (wxPython author) directly at robin at alldunn.com

ka

"Tom Loredo" <loredo at astro.cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:3B7D8191.37669573 at astro.cornell.edu...
> Kevin Altis wrote:
>
> > PythonCard relies on wxPython, it will support the Macintosh once
wxPython
> > has been ported to the Mac.
>
> What's the latest on when this might happen?  It was said to be "soon" a
year
> and a half or two years ago; in the meantime I gave up checking on it.
Has
> there been significant progress lately?  I wish I could help make it
happen,
> but part of why I'd like to see it happen is that I don't know all the
gory
> Mac details it would take to *make* it happen!  8-)
>
> -Tom Loredo
>




From avenkat at myrealbox.com  Wed Aug 22 13:38:03 2001
From: avenkat at myrealbox.com (Venkat)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:38:03 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com>

Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> wrote in message news:<mailman.998435373.14448.python-list at python.org>...
> On Monday 20 August 2001 23:33, phil hunt wrote:
> > On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:01:45 +0200, Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder
> .com> 
> wrote:
> > >phil hunt wrote:
> > >> I haven't looked into S/MIME. Is there a web page with a good summar
>  y of
> > >> it?
> > >
> > >http://www.rsasecurity.com/standards/smime/
> > >http://www.imc.org/ietf-smime/index.html
> >
> > From reading links from this stuff, I get the impression that to get
> > an S/MIME public/private keypair, you have to buy one from a
> > Certification Authority (who also certify your identity, presumably).
> > Is this correct? Or can I just create my own keys like I can with GnuPG
> > or PGP?
> 
> Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA. You just 
> have to provide them with some personal information. If you're dedicated,
>  you  can also get in on their web of trust. That allows you to have more 
> personal information present in the cert (like your real name).

Why the hell I need personal cert issued by Thwate/Verisign?

I can say, all these certs(I call junkies) issued by these CAs are meta-certs.

Meta-cert= Trusting the trust

regards, DeathMaster


> 
> 
>    Richard


From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Sat Aug 18 14:39:39 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:39:39 -0400
Subject: Are There Free Webservers With Python Supported?
In-Reply-To: <998156310.435.49576.l6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B7E7E2B.13598.407C870@localhost>

Haven't been keeping up with this list. Has anyone suggested 
http://www.nipltd.net/Free, or that you search www.google.com for 
'free zope hosting'?

A lot of us would be interested in your results if you would like to 
summarise them.





From gmcm at hypernet.com  Tue Aug 21 08:49:31 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:49:31 GMT
Subject: Python COM local server as .exe possible?
References: <mailman.998258369.14350.python-list@python.org> <9d848d5d.0108200414.44ff9a1c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910459E1251C7gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155>

Wayne wrote: 

> "Bill Bell" <bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:<mailman.998258369.14350.python-list at python.org>... 
>> Can someone tell if I can expect to do this conversion with py2exe, 
>> freeze or another products of this kind? 

[snip]

> I don't know if I understood what you are trying to do, create an .exe
> from your .py COM server?  I used Standalone.py when I need to make a
> .exe, it should work with COM and the win32 extensions.

Release 4 makes it easy to to COM *clients* (although I plan on
cleaning up the code that does this in the near future), including
the EnsureModule stuff (generating dynamically on the client).

COM *servers* are a completely different story.

You can do them (with Standalone and py2exe), but you need to 
rewrite most of the top-level code in the server (the register /
unregister / invoke stuff), because most of Mark's "automatic"
code doesn't work unless the server is a script.

Thomas Heller posted an example of how to do it with py2exe 
sometime this spring. Something similar works with Standalone.
 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html

My starship pages are hideously out of date. Use 

http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/

- Gordon


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Aug  4 18:09:46 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:09:46 GMT
Subject: Beginner's questions
References: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q8romtohgu9jpng24v7r2oru5stl04ta98@4ax.com>

Well, I'll have a go at some of your questions...

On 4 Aug 2001 14:02:36 -0700, printers at sendme.cz (Lad) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416 at posting.google.com>:

:3.Are there any libraries for SMTP, POP3 and NNTP protocols?

Yes:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-smtplib.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-poplib.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-nntplib.html

:5. What modules , except Tk, can I use for GUI programming with 
:Python?

http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html

:6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web 
:browser directly or in other words display html file in python 
:application?

I'm sure there is a way. It is possible to pass a URL to the web browser
and open it in the browser, so it must be possible to do what you are
suggesting. (How about saving the output as a file and passing a URL to
the file to the browser?) Alternatively, you might try looking at Grail
http://grail.sourceforge.net/
and see if some of the code from that project can meet your needs.

:7. Where can I find a available modules list?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html

or this view is by category, rather than alphabetical:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html

Also, lots of useful stuff here:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

Here is an interesting resource page:
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

:8. What are best tutorials/books on Python?

Tutorials...these are the ones I recommended to my high school students:
http://www.thinkspot.net/materdei/apcompsci/python/index.html#Tutorials

There are others. Probably some will get suggested here. Here's another
list:
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=22947#post22947

As for books:
I recommend, for experienced programmers who don't know Python yet:
Core Python Programming by Wesley Chun
after you get your feet wet in Python and are ready to tackle a more
serious book,
Programming Python, 2nd ed. by Mark Lutz (O'Reilly publisher)

:9. Can you give me  examples of large Python application?

http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=22942#post22942

:10. Why do YOU use Python?

I use Python, because it was quick and easy for me to learn and I became
productive in it extremely quickly. I come from a background of Pascal,
C++, VB and a short acquaintance with Fortran a long, long time ago.
Perl, although I'm sure I could tackle it (and eventually will) is such
obfuscated code. Python is readable.

Other Python plusses:
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=22941#post22941

Read a rave review from a former Perl monk?
http://www.aota.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=22956#post22956

Hope these answer some of your questions.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From nas at python.ca  Thu Aug 23 12:05:10 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:05:10 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>; from tjreedy@home.com on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 12:58:42AM +0000
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010823090510.A10583@glacier.fnational.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 2. Think of an object's value as its (unnamed) default attribute.  IE,
> its the value you get if you do not specify a named attribute.  Note
> that this is just as true of classes and instances.

IMHO, this is the wrong way to think about it.  It's probably easier to
explain with a list rather than an integer since the current 2.2 alphas
don't yet allow subclassing integers.

    Python 2.2a1 (#12, Jul 31 2001, 10:34:28) 
    [GCC 2.95.2 20000220 (Debian GNU/Linux)] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> class MyList(list):
    ...   pass
    ... 
    >>> lst = MyList()
    >>> lst 
    []
    >>> 

The object "lst" does not have some hidden attribute that is a list.  It
really is itself a list object.  That's the way things are implemented.
Using some other mental model is bound to get you into trouble sooner or
later.

  Neil



From jaspervp at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 13 06:42:27 2001
From: jaspervp at hotmail.com (jasper)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 03:42:27 -0700
Subject: updating com server
Message-ID: <69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206@posting.google.com>

hi,

I have made a simple comserver with python which returns a string,
when called from word.
I have changed the comserver to return an other string, but it still
returns the old string. I have tried unregistering and registering
again, but that doesn't help. the only thing that seems to help is
rebooting.

is there an easier way to do this?


Jasper


From tjreedy at home.com  Sat Aug  4 16:06:13 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:06:13 GMT
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
References: <9khc3c$qje$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <VAYa7.69602$EP6.16367602@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"whats_really_hot" <whats_really_hot at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9khc3c$qje$1 at usenet.otenet.gr...
> 1. The interactive command line is really a module with the name
"__main__".

ie, the variable named '__name__' has the value  '__main__'

>. So, why when I type dir() in
> the interactive command line "__name__" is returned in spite of
"__main__",

For the same reason that if you enter a='b', dir lists the name a
rather than the value 'b'.

> 2. What does the command "cat" do? I suspect that it begins the
creation of
> a new module, right?

cat is unix command that concatenates files and lists to standard
output (usually screen).

Terry J. Reedy





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug  9 03:49:44 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 07:49:44 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9n4g4o.8qn.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

6 Aug 2001 21:47:49 GMT, Quinn Dunkan <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> pisze:

> Yeah, that's a generally good practice in most imperative languages.
> It's good to keep mutating procedures and non-mutating functions
> clear in your mind.  Eiffel calls this "call query seperation".

Command/query separation.

In some functional languages it's not just a good practice but
a necessity, caused by language rules. In Eiffel and Python it's
merely a convention.

> Eiffel goes even further with this, for example:
> 
> fp.read_line
> s := fp.last_string
> 
> I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety or not.

This is where I disagree with Eiffel. Commands should return a result
directly if applicable, introducing extra state in the object just
to pass the result of a command is bad.

Good parts of command/query separation are IMHO:

- If an operation can be written as either returning a result
  or storing it somewhere, it's generally better to return it.
  I.e. queries should not be unnecessarily expressed as commands.
  Separate gathering inputs, processing, and using outputs.

- Side effects should be documented. The user of a function should
  know whether and how it uses state.

Bad part is the assumption that commands must not return a value.
If some state is unavoidable, it doesn't imply that every communication
of that fragment must be expressed as state changing. This Eiffel's
rule is against the first rule above.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu  Tue Aug 14 18:11:27 2001
From: wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu (Wen Jiang)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:11:27 -0500
Subject: strange problem with os.system() call
References: <3B79564E.A3E3F652@bcm.tmc.edu>
Message-ID: <3B79A20F.2C915552@bcm.tmc.edu>

Problem solved. It turned out the program "my_rec" has statically big
array declared at the first line. Python somehow changes the stacksize
limit to very small (~2M ?), so that the array could not be allocated in
stack.

Is it a bug in python to change the stacksize? or is it just a RedHat
6.2 problem?


From Nadavh at envision.co.il  Thu Aug  9 11:09:03 2001
From: Nadavh at envision.co.il (Nadav Horesh)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:09:03 +0200
Subject: Numerical python bug?
Message-ID: <3B72A78F.545F8B71@envision.co.il>

Why the reminder (%) operator behaves differently in Numpy then the
normal python's %?

>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = array((-3,))
>>> a
array([-3])
>>> a % 4
array([-3])
>>> -3 % 4
1

  Nadav.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Nadavh.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 320 bytes
Desc: Card for Nadav Horesh
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010809/f822f330/attachment.vcf>

From roy at panix.com  Thu Aug 23 08:27:15 2001
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:27:15 -0400
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com>

"Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es> wrote:
> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
> v[5 # 2]

I don't see that this adds anything to the language that can't be done 
already, other than being another way to do the same thing.

If you really did a lot of offset-length type slicing, it would be easy 
enough to define your own class which supported this type of operation.


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug 28 15:58:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:58:40 -0400
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
In-Reply-To: <ZiSi7.53292$c8.23376846@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJDLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> ...
> My bet is the poster would rather, e.g., see '0.67' than '0.66' given
> a=2 and b=3.  If you're going to fake fp by hand, then you're
> responsible for faking all of it, incl. sensible rounding.

[Rainer Deyke]
> c = (((a * 200) / b) + 1) / 2
> s = '%03d' % c
> file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])

So that, e.g., 1/200 rounds to '0.01', but (-1)/200 rounds to '0.00' and
loses the minus sign?  '%.2f' looks better all the time <0.2f wink>.




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Aug  9 08:26:37 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 08:26:37 -0400
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <oqzo995shu.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Roman Suzi]

> After some time working with Python I noticed that I use "-s and '-s
> according to the following rule: I use "" quotes when I specify value
> MANUALLY. That is, in most cases.  On the other hand, I use '' where
> quotes are generated automatically. This is consistent with repr(),
> which gives ''.

Observing myself, I noticed that I use "..." for text meant to be displayed
and read by a human, and '...' for more internal, programmatic strings.
It works well for me, to the point I turned this into a personal style rule.

> The same rules differenciate """ and '''.

And similarly for my own style rule about simpler quotes.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Aug 25 12:15:31 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:15:31 -0700
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
References: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1> <iah8m9.pic.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9m8j6q$t97n$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

One way to get that message:

def test():
    a = 1
    global a

Look at your code to see how to fix it, but you probably will want to do
something like:

def test():
    global a
    a = 1

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
<gradha at iname.com> wrote in message news:iah8m9.pic.ln at 127.0.0.1...
> > Promptly most of my scripts give SyntaxWarnings under Python 2.1.1...
>
> Forgot to say exact warning message:
>
> ./test.py:0: SyntaxWarning: name 'expresion_include' is assigned to before
global declaration
>
> --
>  Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at terra.es   http://gradha.infierno.org



From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 25 16:02:46 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:02:46 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:08:13 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Dave Swegen wrote:
>Maybe more importantly, if you don't actually use TABs, 
>or you consistently treat TABs as eight spaces, the problem 
>won't arise.

Four spaces is now the "standard" according to PEP 8, replacing the
old style guide.  http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html 

But then, the style guide says the same thing... How long ago was 8
considered the norm?

Good thing they reduced it ... it doesn't take too many levels of
indentation to get pretty cramped in a typical 80-character window!

--PW


From pete at shinners.org  Thu Aug  2 11:22:43 2001
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:22:43 GMT
Subject: How to define a GLOBAL Variable ?
References: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <7fea7.5838$Ug.861257@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"Peter Moscatt" <pmoscatt at iprimus.com.au> wrote
> If I wish to define a variable that I want to become global
> to ALL classes within a .py file - how is this best achieved ?

here's what i do when working on larger projects. i make a
separate file named "globals.py". in there you put all the
variables you want set with their default value. then any
module that must access the global variables just does
"import globals". then you access the members of globals
regularly, the variables will be shared across all modules.






From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug  2 02:05:25 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:05:25 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:30:29 CDT."
             <15208.22741.455743.470355@beluga.mojam.com> 
Message-ID: <m15SBbq-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

>     Christian> arg-name   pro                             con
>     Christian> -------------------------------------------------------------
>     Christian> class      obvious meaning                 clash with keyword
> 
>     ...
> 
>     Christian> As the first argument can immediately signify a class method
>     Christian> if the same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an
>     Christian> uncontentious name popped up.
> 
> I just noticed this thread.  Perhaps it's already been suggested, but I
> think Python's parser could easily be modified to recognize "class" as the
> first parameter in a method function's argument list.  There has been talk
> in python-dev off-and-on about relaxing Python's keywords-can't-be-names
> rules.  This might be a good time to revisit it.

That would be great. Of course, its not only the argument list --
you'd like to use `class` in the body of the function, too. Would that
be easily possible, too?

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 09:36:26 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:36:26 +0200
Subject: Windows and file input in Python
References: <9ml0uf$cuv$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61@posting.google.com> <9mnrs712i70@enews2.newsguy.com> <9mntda$dch$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <9mo3sr0318a@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Piotr Legiecki" <piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl> wrote in message
news:9mntda$dch$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl...
    ...
> > Cygwin also currently comes with the latest released Python, 2.1.1 ...
> > enabled for readline, etc, all nice and Unix-like!-)  Recommended!!!
>
> Ok. Where can I find the cygwin distribution of python? I'v looked around
> the www.cygwin.com sites, but with no luck.

Choose any mirror (see http://www.cygwin.com/mirrors.html),
e.g. ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/cygnus/cygwin/, and see
its subdirectory contrib/python: it should include both
python-2.1-1.tar.gz and python-2.1-1-src.tar.gz (there
are also versions with .bz2 instead of .gz, almost 20%
smaller, if you have bunzip2 around -- if you don't, my
suggestion is to *GET IT* -- it will save you considerable
bandwidth when downloading stuff that supports it, including
the Cygwin stuff:-).


Alex






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug  3 11:01:58 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:01:58 -0500
Subject: MySQL module
In-Reply-To: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu>
References: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu>
Message-ID: <15210.48358.952194.48968@beluga.mojam.com>

    Andrey> ...  I know it exists, but where can I get it? Please help!

Google says:

    http://dustman.net/andy/python/MySQLdb

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From grelbr at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 10:09:15 2001
From: grelbr at hotmail.com (grelbr)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 07:09:15 -0700
Subject: equiv from python
References: <9mh27s$dmi$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1a325379.0108290609.7b7219e1@posting.google.com>

strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg) wrote in message news:<9mh27s$dmi$1 at news.service.uci.edu>...
[snip]
> IE, can the standard c++ library take a string, split it up on a
> particular separator character, and return the corresponding list of
> strings?
> 
> I know I can write something to do this, but I'd rather learn how to
> use the STL or similar, if applicable.

Well, there's strtok(). But, I personally think the best use of that
function is as a teacher of the unwary. Before you elect to use that
function, make sure you read the *entire* description in your docs,
all the way to the end and every word. Be sure to pay attention to
the fact that there is a static storage space involved, and be sure
you know what that implies.

Maybe I sound pretty grumpy on this point. But that's because, some
years ago, I blindly used strtok() without paying attention to that
stuff. Don't you be like I was. Get smart sooner rather than later.
grelbr


From fuess1 at home.com  Sat Aug  4 12:46:35 2001
From: fuess1 at home.com (David Fuess)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:46:35 GMT
Subject: Python Source Reformatter?
Message-ID: <ve9omtgkm22rseoibo0fkfnsnlp02e0j1r@4ax.com>

I put together a single source by copying in only the parts I needed
from many test / example programs [mostly mine :-)]. Unfortunately,
there are indentation variations among the various parts. While it
runs fine, it makes editing difficult because the indent scale is
constantly changing. Does anyone know of a reformatter for Python that
can put everything on the same indent scale?

Thanks,
Dave


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Wed Aug  8 18:02:54 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:02:54 +0200
Subject: from __future__ import generators
Message-ID: <007f01c12055$fe94d400$68bd6ac2@zko>

Hi,

I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
'natural question':

Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
necessary ?

purity-beats-practicality-ly-y'rs,
gzeljko





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Aug  7 03:56:36 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:56:36 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
In-Reply-To: <Xns90F657E12B65cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108071155380.8836-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On 7 Aug 2001, chris liechti wrote:
> interested in a hack that opens a python interactive interpreter that is
> accessible using telnet? get the hack here:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/chrisliechti/en/python/index.html
>
> i think it can be useful for debugging GUI apps... at least therefore i've
> written it.

   It could be used, I suppose, to debug long-running applications,
daemons... Zope, for example.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From brian at sweetapp.com  Sun Aug 19 05:07:19 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 02:07:19 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
In-Reply-To: <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1288e$5b722980$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

Paul wrote:
> > Hear, hear!  Designers aren't omniscient and a language that lets
> > me workaround a limitation in the design of a framework or library
> > I need to use is just what I need.
> 
> The trouble is, the very existence of a workaround is sometimes itself
> a limitation, e.g. in implementing an applet sandbox.

I'm sure that your particular application is close to your heart but
it's fortunately not a problem most of us have to deal with.

> I'll check into those.  However, a true general purpose language
> should be useable in all environments.

Name one language that is useable in ALL environments.




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug 30 02:40:14 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:40:14 +1000
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
In-Reply-To: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <0108301640140A.01434@ike>

On Thursday 30 August 2001 15:23, Gerson Kurz wrote:
> 1) normally, you call functions in python like this:
>
> name '(' arg { ',' arg } ')'
>
> however, 'print' is a special function in that its arguments can be
> written without enclosing brackets.

No - unlike Perl (and other languages?), print in Python is not a function, 
it's a _statement_. See http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/print.html

Simplest way of demonstrating this that I can think of:

>>> import sys
>>> sys.stdout.write
<built-in method write of file object at 0x80ec998>
>>> print

>>> sys.stdout.write('hello\n',)
hello
>>> print('hello\n',)
('hello\n',)


> Wouldn't it be nice if you *could*
> call your "normal" functions in the same way? Would that require too
> much of a change to the python language?

Your proposal, which smells a lot of Perl, is actually one of my personal 
Seven Deadly Sins of Perl (modelled on the list found at 
http://language.perl.com/versus/perl.html, but lost forever when I stopped 
givinga damn about perl - right about when I got a full-time job working with 
python :)

In short, there's just too much possible ambiguity about the meaning of 
brackets. I mean come on, we got rid of the braces and (most of) the 
semicolons for you :)


> There might be a slight ambiguity when function names are used without
> arguments, because it then could be interpreted as either the function
> object or the function call; but then again, I see writing the
> function name as object without assigning it to some variable or some
> such as rather pointless.

So, what's the call:

   def foo():
      return 1
   a = foo

Does that assign a to the function object, as it does at the moment, or does 
it assign a to 1?



    Richard



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 01:37:34 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:37:34 GMT
Subject: Two Jython Questions
References: <mailman.999218077.28034.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yoFj7.519219$lq1.106456033@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Thank you all for the replies.  But I am dumpfounded (or is dumbfounded?)
Again it quit working and apparently it can not find the CLASSPATH.  The
CLASSPATH is in the environment.  But I can see clearly that it just is not
picking the path.  And for some reason Jython likes to use one particular
JAVA.exe that came with the Java runtime for quicktime.
This is simply confusing.  I'll just sleep on it and deal with it again this
weekend.  Things have a way of working themselves out.  I can see the power
of Jython.  Only if this mess of  classpaths is worked out.  But also maybe
Windows ME itself is the mess!
Maan

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999218077.28034.python-list at python.org...
> > From: Maan M. Hamze [mailto:mmhamze at pleiades.net]
> > Mats
> > I figured out how to run things and how to set the path of classes.
> > However, I am still running into one problem.  I am compiling
> > a test.py file
> > into test.class using jythonc and keep getting this error on
> > running the
> > class file:
> > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Test
> > By the way, I discovered that it creates test.java too.
>
> Sounds to me like you have the code set up like this ...
>
> # test.py
>
> class Test
>
>     # some stuff
>
> Now, Java (and Python for the most part) is case-sensistive on the
> filesystem level. So, when you compile 'test.py' you end up with
> 'test.class'.
>
> Then in your Java code you try to use the class 'Test'. It then searches
for
> a file called 'Test.class' - and doesn't find it!
>
> Try renaming your file to 'Test.py' (note case) and try again.
>
> Tim Delaney
>




From joyraah at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 20:29:23 2001
From: joyraah at yahoo.com (Tom Longson)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 17:29:23 -0700
Subject: urllib
Message-ID: <cd173a7d.0108201629.3f496d0a@posting.google.com>

I was using urllib to login and parse some data from a standard
password protected web site using the below logic:

#SNIP#
#! /usr/bin/python

import urllib

aruser = '10004'
arpassword = 'password'
jobnum = "100600"
servername, filename = 'host.com', '/scripts/sweb.dll/search?detail='

remoteaddr = 'http://%s:%s@%s%s%s' % (aruser, arpassword, servername,
filename, jobnum)

remotefile = urllib.urlopen(remoteaddr)
print remotefile
remotedata = remotefile.readlines()
print remotedata
remotefile.close()

#SNIP#
Up intil recently, this worked, but now I don't get any data returned,
only
', mode 'rb' at 8124158>> for var remotefile and [] for remotedata. 

Someone on #python suggested for me to use urllib2, but I can't
upgrade to 2.1 because I'm on RedHat 6.2 due to the dependancy to
db1-devel, which I have not been able to find.

Also, here is a bit that I pulled out of an strace while running the
program:

#SNIP#
connect(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(80),
sin_addr=inet_addr("38.169.22.3")}}, 16) = 0
send(5, "GET /scripts/sweb.dll/search?detail=100600 HTTP/1.0\r\n", 53,
0) = 53
send(5, "Authorization: Basic MTAwMDQ6YnVybjE3\r\n", 39, 0) = 39
send(5, "Host: usentry.metameta.com\r\n", 29, 0) = 29
send(5, "User-agent: Python-urllib/1.10\r\n", 32, 0) = 32
send(5, "\r\n", 2, 0)                   = 2
dup(5)                                  = 6
fcntl(6, F_GETFL)                       = 0x2 (flags O_RDWR)
fstat64(0x6, 0xbffff300)                = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS,
-1, 0) = 0x40157000
_llseek(6, 0, 0xbffff340, SEEK_CUR)     = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
read(6, "HTTP/1.1 401 Unauthorized\r\nServer:
Microsoft-IIS/5.0\r\nDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:04:38 GMT\r\n
Allow: GET,POST,HEAD\r\nSet-Cookie:
21618618A732FFE=2603C3A0*27094EA2*2708C938*270844BC; \r\nTitle: : 2161
8618A732FFE=2603C3A0*27094EA2*2708C938*270844BC; \r\nWWW-Authenticate:
Basic realm=Metamedia Technologies
\r\nContent-Version: text/html\r\nContent-Type:
text/html\r\nContent:\r\n\r\n", 1024) = 364
brk(0x810e000)                          = 0x810e000
close(5)                                = 0
write(1, "<addinfourl at 135319872 whose fp = <open file \'<socket>\',
mode \'rb\' at 810c918>>\n", 82) =
82
read(6, "", 8192)                       = 0
write(1, "[]\n", 3)                     = 3
close(6)                                = 0
munmap(0x40157000, 4096)                = 0
close(4)                                = 0
munmap(0x40015000, 4096)                = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {SIG_DFL}, {0x8061504, [], SA_RESTART|0x4000000},
8) = 0
munmap(0x40016000, 4096)                = 0
_exit(0)                                = ?
#SNIP#

Any help would be extremely useful as I'm stuck on a limb right now
with this.. and I don't want to have to use wget instead of urllib!

Thanks!
-Tom Longson


From support at internetdiscovery.com  Sun Aug 26 03:25:54 2001
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:25:54 GMT
Subject: Tkinter event loops
References: <3B8137CF.82515CD6@eegsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <3b88a477.5051549@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:16:16 GMT, Howard Lightstone
<howard at eegsoftware.com> wrote:

>How do I provide the same event handling as the mainloop method while
>still allowing me to "poll" other activities?
>
>Do I use the update method or update_idletasks method or ???

What you need is the (undocumented) createtimerhandler method.
Look at the source code of _tkinter.c at the Tkapp_CreateTimerHandler
code, and look at the Tk/Tcl documentation for 
Tcl_CreateTimerHandler, Tcl_DeleteTimerHandler - call a procedure at a
given time.

Mike.


From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug 22 20:09:38 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:09:38 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3b8449c4.200774979@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:21:34 -0700, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

>Does this help get you started?
>
>
>>>> class A:
>...     def a(self):
>...             print 'A.a()'
>...
>>>> class B(A):
>...     pass
>...
>>>> eval('B.%s' % 'a')
><unbound method A.a>
>
What was that eval weirdness for? ;-)
 >>> class A:
 ...     def a(self):
 ...             print 'A.a()'
 ...
 >>> class B(A):
 ...     pass
 ...
 >>> B.a
 <unbound method A.a>

or am I missing something?


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 19:14:55 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:14:55 +1000
Subject: How does Python (v2.1.1) handle parameter passing? By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>
References: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>
Message-ID: <0108230914550B.28818@ike>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 07:57, Rob van Wees wrote:
> As a newbie to Python, I'm having trouble finding out how the interpreter
> handles parameters that are passed to functions. Sometimes they seem to be
> handled as values and sometimes as references.

A handy point to remember is that python variables are _always_ references to 
objects. That includes function/method arguments. Think of them as just being 
labels. Thus "x = 1" just makes a label called "x" for the object 1. Then "x 
= x + 1" makes a label for the object that results from the operation "x + 
1". "def foo(a):" makes a label called "a" for whatever object is passed to 
the function when it's invoked.


    Richard



From spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk  Thu Aug  2 14:54:38 2001
From: spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:54:38 +0200
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <el7ck9.4ek.ln@127.0.0.1>

Carl Fink <carlf at panix.com> wrote:
 : I asked about this on the debian-user mailing list and got no answers
 : at all, not a good sign, but:  has anyone installed Python 2.1 or
 : later on a Potato system?  There are no .deb files that I can locate
 : I've installed quite a bit of software outside the Debian packaging
 : system, but I'm leery of fiddling with Python because dpkg/apt *uses*
 
 are you *sure* ? I see no reason why would dpkg or apt (both written in C)
 require python
 
 : Python, and if 2.1 breaks dpkg I'm screwed.  So I'm wondering if
 : anyone has actual experience and pointers?
 
I did install Activestate python 2.0 on potato (and later 2.1, but that
was already woody). It is clearly separated from debian system, so it
should not impose any problems.

You can try http://people.debian.org/~flight/python/snapshot/python2.1/
for preliminary python2.1 real debian packages, but those are for
woody and will probably mess up with your dependencies a lot.

My advice is to try Activestate python.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik  http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__         garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk       |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Fri Aug 31 08:52:36 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:52:36 -0500
Subject: Python Server Pages
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA5365@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

A great reply.  JSP, ASP, PHP, and Cold Fusion are stables, and it would be
hard to develop a competitor to them.  But Python could be used as a
scripting language, and in Java, the Java version of Python could make
inroads.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Pawelek [mailto:mark at swipe.plc.uk]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 5:49 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python Server Pages


On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:00:13 -0500, Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote:

>Does anyone know the current state of python server pages?  The last
>entry on their web site is June 1999.  I remember reading a Dr. Dobb's
>Journal article at roughly the same time.  So PSP appears to be
>incredibly stable or abandoned :)
>
>Brian Kelley
>Whitehead Institute

Was it really such a good idea?

ASP.NET will allow compiled pages - a philosophy which clearly implies that
the
performance reduction from interpretation should be eliminated.

But PSP used a java servlet to interpret the PSP pages - basing this on the
notion that
PSP was transportable.

Transportable to what I ask?  IIS has it's own server pages. Apache has PHP.
Cold Fusion
Server likewise. So is someone using these platforms really going to change
to PSP in
preference to one of the 3 above? 

The idea of PSP is a good one but implementing as a Java servlet doesn't
make sense to me.
Providing that option is good but making it the only option will ensure that
it's
performance will always be second rate and that ASP, PHP and Cold Fusion
programmers will
remain with their current development platforms.

I know what you're going to say now - why don't I roll my own? - Because I'm
a scripting
person and I'll use ASP when I can and PHP otherwise - even if I prefer
Python as a
language.




From deltapigz at telocity.com  Wed Aug 29 15:55:09 2001
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:55:09 -0400
Subject: dumb question.
Message-ID: <NLbj7.3336$S5.2321233@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>

is the behaviour of print suppose to automatically start a new line? or does
the print command suppose to wait for a cr\lf prior to ending the line?
because everytime i would like to use the print command to print X line of
text/numbeers/etc. sequentially it start a new line everytime print is
issued; isthis a normal thing? or a problem?

Adonis




From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 10 06:16:35 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:16:35 +1000
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org> <1827265.sRUnXabflU@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B73B483.F0D7949B@student.gu.edu.au>

Markus Schaber wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> schrub:
> 
> > More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> > blanks in ( ).
> > [...]
> > Any ideas?
> 
> I usually use (a, b, c) - means spaces only after the commas.
> 
> In C / Java, I use spaces after if (), while () etc., but don't put one
> after a function().
> 
> Inside the parenthesis, I sometimes add some spaces when there are
> multiple levels of ()s:
> 
> if ( (a>b) && (b>c) )
> if (( (a>b) && (b>c) ) || (something != else))
> 
> I don't use any rules for this - I just try to keep it readable in my
> own eyes :-)
> 
> markus
> --
> Defend democrathy and freedom!

And personally I prefer reading this and other informal whitespace
styles. One of the big hassles I have as a yellow-belt pythoneer is
trying to decode somebody else's multiple layers of unbroken (()),
especially if I happen to use a non-syntax-highlighting
editor/webbrowser.

(((((), ((), ()), ((())), ()))))-ly yr's
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !

PS: The sad thing is that I dropped the above sign-off into a python
interpreter to ensure that I'd got the number of braces and commas
right. *sighs*


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 17 11:07:17 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:07:17 -0500
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com> <tnnq6npco20l59@corp.supernews.com> <9lh9mb01r19@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <tnqcr5r954tbb5@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks Alex.  I have planned to check Jython, but have not had the time yet.
However, I know I'll meet some resistance here.
Meanwhile, I have been comparing Oracle packages for Python.  The most
promising is DCOracle2.
The main advantage I see in using Python, is ease of use and productivity
while not compromising clarity.  To me this is quite important.
Thanks again,
Maan

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9lh9mb01r19 at enews3.newsguy.com...
> "Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
> news:tnnq6npco20l59 at corp.supernews.com...
> > Thank you all for the reponses.  We are going to try both:  Python, and
> JSP
> > and take it from there; although I much prefer to stick with Python.
>
> Make sure to get to www.jython.org, download Jython, and start studying
> up on it and how you can integrate it with the JSP or any other Java
> library/framework.  You'll get the advantages of the Python language
> but exactly the same library availability and deployment options as
> with Java (since it IS 100% pure Java...).
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From mday at apple.com  Fri Aug 10 18:52:03 2001
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:52:03 -0700
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com> <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org> <cpsnf090x8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <100820011552034543%mday@apple.com>

In article <cpsnf090x8.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> Hm.  How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
> letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can
> reasonably deduce)?

Cool.  I think I may copy your code into my sitepython.py...

As a newbie, I often find myself in the situation of needing some
particular method of an object.  I remember it mentioned in the
documentation, but I don't remember the exact name.  I use dir() to jog
my memory, and then I usually just print the associated __doc__ to
figure out the parameters.

I imagine that if I was trying to use dir() in code, I would just use
__dict__, __class__, __bases__, etc. directly.  The nice thing about
being a newbie is that I don't have a backward compatibility worry yet.

I especially like the proposed dir() traversing up base classes. 
That's something that currently trips me up: figuring out which base
class methods are available.

-Mark


From johngrayson at home.com  Wed Aug  8 06:27:01 2001
From: johngrayson at home.com (johngrayson at home.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 10:27:01 -0000
Subject: Fwd:  Setting defualt font in Tkinter
Message-ID: <9kr45l+3iks@eGroups.com>

--- In python-list at y..., Norman Charnley <norman at e...> wrote:

Is there a way to change the default font in Tkinter for all applications
(using Python 2.1 under RedHat Linux 7.1)? 

I know I can set it specifically when I am creating widgets, but it would
be useful to have the default a little more readable. 

In particular, when I fire up Idle, the menu font (not the editing font,
which IS configurable) is awful, and although I can mostly fix it up by
poking about in EditorWindow.py, that seems a messy way to have to go.

Thanks in advance for any help....

Norman

You can set a generic font, or specific fonts for widget classes:

  root.option_add('*Font',                  'Verdana 10 bold')
  root.option_add('*Entry.Font',            'Verdana 8 bold')
  root.option_add('*Text.Font',             'Verdana 8 bold')

(Use X resource format)

--- End forwarded message ---





From aahz at panix.com  Thu Aug  9 17:48:34 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 14:48:34 -0700
Subject: Problems with Threads
References: <mailman.997216332.2935.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kv0fi$ft4$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997216332.2935.python-list at python.org>,
superfix <superfix at bol.com.br> wrote:
>
>Hello guys. I have been some problems with threads in 
>python/c. Let me try explanation this:
>	- I have an interface write in python for c
>	- In this interface I call a module write in c
>	- In this module I call glutmainloop, otherwise, 
>the program enters in loop to refresh the opengl 
>aplication.
>
>So, I need to return to python interpreter. otherwise, I need to keep
>two aplications in my program: python window and opengl window. Note: I
>need to keep the terminal active together opengl.
>
>	/*Api*/
>	include <module.c>
>	. . . . . . .
>	static PyObject *agg_CreatAgent(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
>	{
>		int x;
>    		if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &x)
>			return NULL;
> 
>		Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
>			open_function(x, "filename");
>  	 	Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
>	
>		Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>    		return Py_None;
>	}
>	
>Effect. Python simply call the open_function and fall in loop. How I
>can return the control to the python and keep this thread active?  Any
>thoughts?

What's this thread supposed to do?  It sounds to me like you need to
clarify your application logic.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 13:03:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:03:16 +0200
Subject: typechecking etc??
References: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com> <3b7e8d15$0$222@proctor>
Message-ID: <9lm749021v@enews3.newsguy.com>

"DR" <dean at valtronics.co.za> wrote in message news:3b7e8d15$0$222 at proctor...
> (although some respondents felt that precision in
> > approach and thinking, richness in language and naming choices, plus
> > compiler efficiency made sensitivity preferable).
>
> Talking about compiler efficiency, is there any way to write an extension
> that would allow python to be optionally strongly typed?

Python IS strongly typed.  If you mean STATICALLY typed, how
do you think an 'extension' could possibly alter the syntax of
the language, not to mention code generation &c?


Alex







From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 18:53:21 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:53:21 GMT
Subject: Beginner's questions
References: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com> <3B6C7889.2D48F393@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B6C7B23.D75C0136@yahoo.com>

I wrote:
> 
> Lad wrote:
> > 6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web
> > browser directly or in other words display html file in python
> > application?

I forgot about this one:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-webbrowser.html

-- 
...................    paul winkler   ....................
custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
       A member of ARMS:   http://www.reacharms.com
            home page:  http://www.slinkp.com


From a-steinhoff at web.de  Fri Aug 24 12:44:33 2001
From: a-steinhoff at web.de (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:44:33 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 ... stupid error in import.c
Message-ID: <9m609h02ca2@drn.newsguy.com>


Hi,
 to all who are porting 2.1.1 to a UNIX like system.

I'm porting 2.1.1 to QNX6 and got the situation that the module 'os' could not
be be found with 'import os'

After some hacking with DDD .. I found out that the pathes used by the search
algorithm of import.c has nothing to do with the directory structure of the UNIX
distribution of Python 2.1.1 =:-/

I have installed Python in the root directory and set PYTHONHOME/PYTHONPATH to
/Python-2.1.1 -> the path to he library modules is then

                     -> /Python-2.1.1/Lib

The search algorithm of import.c is using the following search path sequence:

  "os.so"   -> I don't know why it should make sense to open
               a shared object with fopen ??
  "osmodule.so"
  "os.py"
  "os.pyc"

  "/Python-2.1.1/os.so" ... os.pyc

  "/Python-2.1.1/lib/python2.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ who got the idea that this is part of the 
                                UNIX distribution ??

 Is the version 2.1.1 released or is it escaped :)

Armin



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 03:43:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:43:33 +0200
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9ko6720156j@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Greg Landrum" <gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9knqsc$drr$1 at slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
    ...
> It's assuming that you are a newbie to writing extensions.  It certainly
> isn't trying to teach you C.  Interlanguage stuff is always harder than
> writing in a single language.  Probably the best first C project is
> something other than writing an extension module.

I think that writing extensions (and embedding) would be a great
way to teach substantial C skills to somebody who only knew how
to program in Python.  "The best first C project" may be the usual
"Hello world", but the second one after that might be extensions.


> > It further assumes you are using
> > the gui of visual studio and not the compiler directly via command
> > line.
>
> This is partially true, and with a reason.  The standard build environment
> under Windows is Visual Studio.  So the docs are written for the standard
> env.

By far the easiest way to build Python extensions is with the
distutils, so that's what I think an extension-writing tutorial
should be based on.  Of course, if the distutils don't support
a given C compiler, then the project's difficulty suddenly
zooms up by at least an order of magnitude.  But rather than
trying to address that in the docs, maybe the distutils could
be extended to cope with the alternate compiler... they do
such a great job with the normal ones, after all!

(I don't think they help with _embedding_, but maybe that
could be a separate course/tutorial after one has fully
mastered extensions...).

> Python is easy, extension modules are not.

Not as easy as Python itself, but easier than most any
significant stand-alone C program.


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 13:30:01 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:30:01 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
In-Reply-To: <3B7563B2.AC539489@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108112117060.1150-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Peter Hansen wrote:

>(Of course, follow XP principles regardless: if you
>have to spend significant time learning and implementing
>the solution with XML, don't go there.  Just pick something

This is true. However, XML could be gradually entered...
without any XML at first. For example, when you
change the following "legacy":

data:
0 (0, 0, 0) 0
0 (0, 0, 0) 0
0 (0, 0, -) 0
0 (0, 0, -) 0
code:
for l in f.readlines():
  m = re.match("(.*) \(.....", l)
  rec = m.groups()
  # rec[i] == "-" -> 0
  # ... etc

into:

0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 - 0
0 0 0 - 0

for l in f.readlines():
  rec = split(l)

- this is one step closer XML. Then:


0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 - 0
0 0 0 - 0


for l in f.readlines():
  a, b, c, d, e = split(l)
  ...

- even closer!

(there could be one more step with special object
to allow
   line.a, line.b ... access

And then:

a=0,b=0,c=0,d=0,e=0
a=0,b=0,c=0,d=0,e=0
a=0,b=0,c=0,d=0,e=0
a=0,b=0,c=0,d=None,e=0
a=0,b=0,c=0,d=None,e=0

is already almost XML!

Next logical step is XML itself: context information is now in data!

(of course, this example is too simple and better suited for RDMS
than XML, but format could be more advanced)

So, it is not necessary to jump XML right now:
system could be gradually prepared for it by
letting context info into data.

Then it will be one quantum leap and:

<myproblem:recordset>
<a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
<a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
<a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
<a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><e>0</e>
<a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><e>0</e>
</myproblem:recordset>

or something similar.

>simple, as Alex said and you agreed, and get it working.
>You can always plan on refactoring once the basic thing
>is working and you can focus on learning XML without the
>pressures of trying to make the system work at the same
>time.)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 19:36:59 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:36:59 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Qogh7.112791$rV6.5802238@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Dave Swegen" <dswegen at allstor-sw.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.998577160.2781.python-list at python.org...
> First of all this is not intended as flame-baiting or trolling. I'm
> genuinly curious about this one weird feature.
>
> I've recently started looking at python, as we are about to implement a
> whole new intranet, and it would seem that basically all web tools that
> are of interest (zope, mason etc) are either perl or python based.
>
> Now, I've done a bit of perl coding, and it does have some neat
> features. However, I feel that there are far too many cases where making
> hard-to-read code is too easy, or things feel tacked on (OOP, for
> instance). That is why I really like what I've seen of Python so far.
>
> However, I (and others here at work) do have some real concerns about
> the indentation feature. Basically we are quite worried about subtle
> but nasty bugs creeping in. Take the following code for instance:
>
> for i in [1234]:
> print i
> print "hello"
>
> Perfectly fine, valid code. But one indentation step wrong, and you end
> up with perfectly fine, valid code that does something else, ie
>
> for i in [1234]:
> print i
> print hello
>
> I imagine that these sort of problems might not only appear due to
> incorrect coding, but also things such as broken mailers, applying
> patches from people using different indent levels etc
>
> So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?
>
> Any points of view much appreciated
>
Well, if you read your post above as my mailer showed it to me you will
realise that braindead mail software *can* magle Python: Outlook Express
does not render tabs (at least, I can't find a way to make it), so your two
examples ended up the same!

Despite this, in practice there are few problems of this nature. Tell your
colleagues not to worry.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 12:14:54 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:14:54 -0400
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should apply to *nix, too)
References: <3b8c84e1.766674781@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Dv8j7.70101$54.3716596@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8c84e1.766674781 at news.isar.de...
> The BaseHTTPServer is derived from SocketServer.TCPServer.
> This class serves up data using the handle_request() member function.
> It looks like this (comments added by me):
>
> -----------------------
> def handle_request(self):
>     try:
>         request, client_address = self.get_request()
>     except socket.error:
>         return
>     if self.verify_request(request, client_address):
>         try:
>             # this will start a new thread
>             self.process_request(request, client_address)
>         except:
>             self.handle_error(request, client_address)
>     # this will close the socket still in use by the new thread
>     self.close_request(request)
> -----------------------
> The ThreadingTCPServer, which can be mixed in at a higher point in the
> hierarchy, overloads self.process_request() to startup a new thread
> for that request. However, once the thread has started, if the thread
> running self.handle_request() gets the CPU before the other thread has
> finished reading from the request, it will close the request, even
> while a thread serving the request is running in the background.
> And, self.close_request() closes the socket, so the error message
> about _sock being a number is completely explainable.
>
> So I don't think just adding ThreadingTCPServer could've worked from
> the start; and the same problem could possibly happen on the *nix
> implementation of ThreadingTCPServer, too.
>
> Solution:
>
> 1) the derived TCPServer has to implement close_request(self) as a
> stub function
> 2) the request class has to implement handle() and at the end of the
> function, close the socket.

I suspect the answer might be "Fixed in Next Release":


http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=41
9873

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Aug 15 11:00:31 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:00:31 +0200
Subject: Python Interface To PostgreSQL ??
References: <%Nre7.120101$Xr6.642305@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <fq2el9.l73.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:03:39 GMT, Peter Moscatt <pmoscatt at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>I am trying to install PostgreSQL (onto my LINUX system) and have python 
>interface to the databases I create with it.

The standard PostgreSQL interface currently has a few annoying bugs, so I'd
recommend to use an alternative like http://sourceforge.net/projects/pypgsql/

PyGreSQL, the one included in PostgreSQL, offers an old API and a newer, DB-API
compatible one. IMHO it's always preferrable to code to the Python DB-API, as
this lets you change database modules and/or databases much more easily later
(i. e. change the import and the .connect statement and you're done).

>I haven't been able to compile with the python interface (./configure 
>--with-python).

PyGreSQL's build process is distutils based, so you can change to
src/interfaces/python, change the paths in setup.py if necessary, then.

python setup.py build
python setup.py install                 # and even
python setup.py bdist_rpm               # if you like to :-)

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 27 11:46:17 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:46:17 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271111390.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271930340.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Roman Suzi wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am trying to compile Python 2.1.1 on my Linux RedHat 6.2
> > system and am getting
> >
> > # rpm -bb python-2.1.spec
> > error: failed build dependencies:
> >         expat-devel >= 1.1-3tummy is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
> >         db1-devel   is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
> >
> > While I have even two versions of expat:
> >
> > # rpm -qa | grep expat
> > expat-1.1-1
> > expat-1.1-3tummy
> >
> > The question is, where can I find appropriate expat-devel
> > rpm? (expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm doesn't produce one, as
> > expected, and rpmfind warns that expat tummy RPMs "doesnt export
> > valid resources list")
> >
> > Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
> 
> 1.1? Ouch.
> 
>   ftp://ftp.rpmfind.net/linux/sourceforge/expat/expat-1.95.2-1.src.rpm

This doesn't provide expat-devel (that is, includes and libs).
 
> db1 may be trickier. IIRC, there's some sort of conflict with 6.2 and the db1
> packages from 7.x. Nonetheless:
> 
>   ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.1/en/os/i386/SRPMS/db1-1.85-5.src.rpm

Trickier indeed:

# rpm -hiv db1-1.85-5.i386.rpm db1-devel-1.85-5.i386.rpm
error: failed dependencies:
        glibc < 2.1.90 conflicts with db1-1.85-5
        glibc-devel < 2.1.90 conflicts with db1-devel-1.85-5

How people compile Python 2.1.1 from src.rpm on not-so-ancient RedHat 6.2
(without tricks)???

I do not believe Python 2.1.1 requires RedHat 7.x to compile
and run, but that is what official src.rpm for it insists.

Maybe I could find alternative spec-file?

> Knock yourself out.

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Thu Aug  2 00:03:32 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:03:32 GMT
Subject: Converting from strings to integers
References: <e66c2e45.0108011649.71a4ba3e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mhk8j.dt7.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On 1 Aug 2001 17:49:31 -0700, Stephen Smith wrote:
>Hi, I'm new to Python and am just trying out an example of file I/O. 
>I am trying to read a file (successfully), and then multiply a value
>by another static variable.  The value from the file was outputting in
>the 'string' format, and I need to convert it into an integer.  I
>tried using the int(x) command, but it doesn't seem to care, it is
>still in the string format.

I think I /might/ know what's wrong.  Let me guess: your code looks
something like this:

(incorrect code)
 number = file.readline()
 int(number)
 print number + 3

(Of course, I don't know what you're /actually/ doing; the important thing
is that I'm guessing that you have "int(number)" on a line by itself.)

If this is anything close to true (show me some code if it's not), then
the problem is that "int" isn't a command; it's a function.  int doesn't
change the number you pass to it; it merely produces a number, which you
can then use.  Here's a correct version:

 line = file.readline()
 number = int(line)
 print number + 3

See how I'm using the _result_ of the int function?

Hope this helps.  Sorry if it doesn't; post more code and we'll be able to
help more accurately.

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From rupe at metro.yak.net  Tue Aug 14 16:02:57 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:02:57 -0700
Subject: Errata: Typo in Python Tutorial
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108141202.14390c71@posting.google.com>

I wish I had a net-torpedo sometimes, that would catch errant posts as
they sped towards an uncountable number of Usenet servers.

My confusion about the pop() method for lists in my last post was one
of incorrectly interpreted notation.  I interpreted the [0] notation
in s.pop([0]) as representing a single item list object, rather than
just the notation for an optional parameter to the method.

Sorry 'bout that.

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net:8080


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 24 10:31:44 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:31:44 -0500
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
Message-ID: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>

Is it possible to link Dictionary values of each key into a text file?  So
the value of a key is a text file somewhere on the PC.  And if so, how do I
instruct Python to open the text file and print into screen when the key of
the text file is used?
Also, is it possible to link a value of a Dictionary key into a Python
function/procedure?  So, if the key is encountered, a way for the
functionprocedure to be run.
Maan




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Aug  5 15:45:17 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 22:45:17 +0300
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
References: <tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <kuwv4ip9yq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article
<tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Tony
McDonald <tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk> writes:

| Hi,
| This is on an Enterprise 3500 - UltraSparc at 400MHz (ie a big box)

sparc cpus aren't very fast, even if you put them inside big
boxes. if you look www.spec.org you'll see that an enterprise 3500
with a ultrasparc2 at 400 has a specint score of 212.
for comparison a 700mhz dell p3 gets 307.

  -- erno




From hnowak at cuci.nl  Fri Aug 10 07:32:03 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:32:03 +0200
Subject: Setting file creation date
Message-ID: <3B9C829D@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From fse at npt.no (Fredrik Seehusen) =====
>Hello,
>
>How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
>creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?
>
>This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(

Hmm, os.utime does more or less what you want:

>>> print os.utime.__doc__
utime(path, (atime, utime)) -> None
utime(path, None) -> None
Set the access and modified time of the file to the given values.  If the
second form is used, set the access and modified times to the current time.
>>>
>>> import os, time
>>> t = time.mktime((1973, 9, 2, 16, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0))
>>> os.utime("c:/test.txt", (t, t))

On my box (NT4/SP6/Py2.1) this doesn't seem to set the *creation* date/time, 
but rather the *modified* date/time. Hmm.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug 28 16:36:42 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:36:42 +0200
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <mailman.998660737.23722.python-list@python.org> <87n14pqslg.fsf@complete.org>
Message-ID: <7292650.F6SAcFxjWL@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

John Goerzen <jgoerzen at complete.org> schrub:

>>> DTML bites. It hits on making it easy to do easy things, but is too
>>> constraining for the expert because you don't have the full
>>> flexibility of Python in the tags.
>> 
>>    DTML is presentation language. Don't mix logic and presentation.
>>    If you
>> need Python - just use Python, not DTML.
> 
> The problem, though, is that it's not all that easy to do HTML in
> Python, especially for non-programmers.  One neat approach is Enhydra,
> a Java system, which uses id attributes in HTML tags and then lets the
> Java code modify those tags.  Completely separates presentation from
> implementation.  OTOH because it is Java, it apparently obeys the
> unwritten rule that it must be a beheamoth with a large and complex
> API that requires 10x more code to use than it should.... sigh....

I use DTML for the page, and python for the logic. At the top of my 
page, I have the following or something alike:

<dtml-let seite=Calculate>
<dtml-with seite>

Calculate is a python procedure that calculates everything that needs 
logic (e. G. a list containing all the nav-bar entries) and returns it 
in a result object. Then dtml-var and dtml-in applied on the object- 
defined namespace is all you need :-)

> I also dislike not storing files in the regular, filsystem way.

That's the biggest negative point, and it makes it more difficult to 
create backups.
 
> OTOH, Zope's inheritance model is quite nice.

Yes, the most classes are easy to use as mix-in. But the documentation 
is more than a mess, although its getting better.

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Aug  7 17:36:16 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 23:36:16 +0200
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3dvgjz1v7c.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <9kpn0g$eb1$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:

> You're quite correct that they're not really related; either change
> could have been made independently of the other.  It just seemed
> clearest to cheat a bit and mention the 'X in dict' change at that
> point.  Otherwise the only reasonable place to describe it would have

Ah, I see. But as written now it's a little confusing, atleast to me.
Maybe adding some words might help, like:

  Iterator support has been added to some of Python's basic types. The
  in operator now works on dictionaries; as an aside, fortunately the
  related key in dict also works and is now equivalent to dict.has_key(key). 
  Calling iter() on a dictionary will return an iterator which loops over
  its keys:


-- 
groetjes, carel


From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug 15 15:29:53 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:29:53 GMT
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org><MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com><mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org> <YTzPNDAvATe7EwXf@gol.com> <3b7a782f$0$250$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <R4Ae7.106367$EP6.27468550@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote in message
news:3b7a782f$0$250$edfadb0f at dspool01.news.tele.dk...
> Here's an idea on how to avoid that: Replace each instance of / and
/=
> with a call to a function that emulates old division behaviour. This
> could be completely automated.
>
> That is replace each instance of
>     E1 / E2
> where E1 and E2 are arbitrary expressions, with
>     oldstyle_division(E1,E2)
>
> def oldstyle_division(E1,E2):
>     if type(E1) == types.IntType and type(E2) == types.IntType:
>         return E1 // E2
>     else:
>         return E1 / E2

To automate this, you need a parser that can accurately recognize the
blocks of text that correspond to E1 and E2.  The difficulty in doing
this is one reason for // instead of div(,).

Terry J. Reedy





From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Mon Aug  6 06:16:16 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:16:16 +0100
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <9klqpi$v86@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Ron Johnson" <ron.l.johnson at home.com> wrote in message
news:lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...

> Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the
> duplicate spaces out

You can use regular expressions (in the re module).  They can soon get
complex but they don't start a lot easier than this.

$ python
Python 1.5.2 (V007, Mon Jun  4 20:11:16 2001) [DECC] on OpenVMS Alpha
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
portions Copyright 1996-2000 Uwe Zessin
>>> import re
>>> whitespace = re.compile('\s+')
>>> re.sub(whitespace, ' ', 'foo   bar      snafu')
'foo bar snafu'

> For anyone with VMS experience, I want to emulate the DCL lexical
> function F$EDIT("COMPRESS").

Strictly , you would need an expression [ \t]+ :
"match characters from the set (space or tab) one or more times".






From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:00:18 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:00:18 +0200
Subject: popen3 and ssh
References: <3B73E5C6.2080200@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <j4r8uidih9.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Michele Campeotto <micampe at f2s.com> writes:

>    Hi, I'm trying to connect to CVS via SSH from a Python script, it 
> works fine when used over a network, but on a local machine it seems 
> that SSH doesn't get the password that I'm sending... anybody can give 
> an hint?
> 
>    cvs_input.write(self.password + '\n')

ssh opens the controlling terminal (/dev/tty) directly to read the
password. I think there is no way to tell ssh to read the password
from stdin. If you want to use ssh locally, you need to create a
pseudo-terminal. Depending on your operating system, this may be an
arbitrarily complex procedure, or not possible at all. With some luck
(e.g. on Linux), you may have the functions posix.openpty and
posix.forkpty to do that.

Regards,
Martin



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 09:27:52 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:27:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com> <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998482775.12377.python-list@python.org> <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910691ED3DBABduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in 
news:7xy9obovj8.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com:

> Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?  
> 
>         [f(x) for x in a]
> 
> just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
> to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,
> 
>         map(lambda x: f(x), a).
Which would be much better written, and faster should it matter, as:
     map(f, a)

> 
> Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
> is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
> the language.
> 
Once you get used to it it feels much cleaner and easier to read than the 
lambda equivalent and less error prone as well. Would you care to rewrite 
the following using map, filter and lambda?

    [ f(x, y) for x in a for y in b if g(x,y) ]

As far as speed is concerned, you will find it very difficult in general to 
predict whether the map or the list builder notation will be faster, and by 
the time you have worked it out you will almost certainly have wasted more 
time than you will ever save. Dont try to do micro-optimisations. Wait 
until your code really is too slow then optimise the bits that matter.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 25 16:10:29 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:10:29 GMT
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
References: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9m8uc6$jpj$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3B87B147.A810DCC3@earthlink.net>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> 
> Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> > Unless I am missing something, I have looked and I Tkinter does not seem to
> > have a DataGrid to receive the rows of a query (a dataset) and display them
> > or to bind it into a dataset.  There is the Python DB API after all.  So I
> > believe the issue of Datasets should be standardized across the different
> > database packages.
> > Now, I believe I have an idea on how to build a class and use it in Python
> > that can do exactly this.
> > But does Tkinter have a DataGrid?  If not, are there any other GUI Python
> > packages that come with a DataGrid?
> 
> Not if you mean a ready-made data-aware grid control like Visual Basic
> has. You'll have to roll your own. One problem is that Tkinter, to the
> best of my knowledge doesn't have a grid control at all.

True, but the grid layout manager makes it extremely easy
to create one.

from Tkinter import *

class SequenceGridException:
    pass

class SequenceGrid(Frame):

    def __init__(self,parent,**kw):
        Frame.__init__(self,parent,**kw)
        self.fields = []
        self.rows = 0
        self.cols = 0

    def setRows(self,rows):
        self.rows = 0
        self.cols = 0

        for field in self.fields:
            field.grid_forget()
            field.destroy()
        self.fields = []

        for row in rows:
            self.cols = 0
            for item in row:
                txt = str(item)
                field = Text(self,height=1,width=len(txt))
                field.insert("1.0",txt)
                field.grid(row=self.rows,col=self.cols,sticky="nsew")
                self.fields.append(field)
                self.cols += 1
            self.rows += 1

    def getItem(self,row,col):
        if row < 0 or col < 0 or row >= self.rows or col >= self.cols:
            raise SequenceGridException
        idx = row * self.cols + col
        return self.fields[idx].get("1.0","end")

# Test code:
test = 0
data =
[["Hello","world",42],["I","love","Python!"],["Tkinter","rocks","the
house!"]]

def fill():
    global test, data
    try:
        print "1,2 is %s"%sg.getItem(1,2)
    except:
        print "Oops, no data in grid 1,2"
    sg.setRows(data)
    data.append(["New","row",test])
    test += 1

if __name__ == "__main__":
    root = Tk()
    sg = SequenceGrid(root,width=100,height=100)
    sg.grid(sticky="nsew")
    btn = Button(command=fill,text="Fill grid")
    btn.grid()
    root.mainloop()

[snip]



> I know that
> both wxPython and PyQt have a good grid control, and filling a table
> yourself from the results of a query is easy enough, and gives you a
> lot of flexibility. In fact, at the last VB shop where I worked, use
> of data-aware controls was forbidden: we had to fill the grids
> ourselves anyway.
> 
> --
> 
> Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From m.linnemann at addcom.de  Fri Aug 10 05:47:41 2001
From: m.linnemann at addcom.de (Michael Linnemann)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:47:41 +0200
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tja0l9.ug.ln@haegar.fqdn.th-h.de>

Am Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400 Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

>In expanded form:
>
>   def gen_sectors3():
>       print 'Generating (Version 3)...',
>       lst = []
>       for i in xrange(65536):
>           lst.append(chr(i & 0xFF))
>       for i in xrange(65536):
>           lst.append(chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF))
>       print 'done'
>       return ''.join(lst)

>I haven't benched it--or even run it--but this will probably even beat
>'gen_sectors2()'.

But I did ;-)

And here is the result:

  Version 2: 0.006
  Version 3: 1.005
  Version 4: 0.054 
   
I made a gen_sectors4 because V.2 was surprisingly slow:

    def gen_sectors4():
       print 'Generating (Version 4)...',
       s = []
       forward = []
       reverse = []
       for i in xrange(256):
           forward += [chr(i)]
           reverse += [chr(255 - i)]
       s += forward * 256
       s += reverse * 256
       print 'done'
       return "".join(s)
       
This is Python2.0 on a Linux machine, only in case it matters...

Regards
Michael


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 21:02:16 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:02:16 -0400
Subject: language lawyering - doc strings
In-Reply-To: <66b6xvc0.fsf@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEODLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[gcash]
> I know this is being pedantic, but where's the syntactical spec for
> documentation strings in the language reference?

I don't think there is one!  They're ordinary string literals, of course,
and must be the first non-blank non-comment statement at the top of a
module, or following a class or def stmt.

> I was looking at the 2.1.1 docs and I'd expect it to be in "4.1 Code
> blocks, execution frames, and namespaces"

I sure wouldn't expect it there.  Maybe that's the problem -- nobody can
figure out where to put it <wink>.

> but the only reference to documentation strings is where it mentions
> the __doc__ attribute.
>
> I noticed this when someone asserted you can't have doc strings for
> classes.

In that case, they can't -- but you can.

>>> class C:
...     pass
...
>>> dir(C)
['__doc__', '__module__']
>>> print C.__doc__
None
>>> class C:
...     "pass"
...
>>> print C.__doc__
pass
>>>




From lcampbell at ubytes.com  Fri Aug 17 16:48:53 2001
From: lcampbell at ubytes.com (liam)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:48:53 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net> <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net>

i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure. seems kinda
alot of work just to get a constant. even perl has "use constant" and thats
about the ugliest language around :)
"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9ljt9u02oa9 at enews2.newsguy.com...
> "liam" <lcampbell at ubytes.com> wrote in message
> news:Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813 at nnrp5-w.sbc.net...
> > is there a data type like the const in c/c++? ive been combing through
the
> > doc and it doesnt seem to have one or am i missing something somewhere?
>
> A reasonably popular solution is my "Constants in Python" recipe at:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>




From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 11:09:40 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:09:40 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python equivalent of Archive::Tar?
In-Reply-To: <g5pfntkvaouredpt6bim6uoogncgvlt984@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131906350.780-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Tom Robinson wrote:

> Is there a python equivalent of this perl module?  I specifically want
> to be able to create a tar file in memory by reading in the files for
> it and then write it out to a web browser.  I've managed to acheive
> this in perl by using Archive::Tar, has anyone written a similar
> library for python?  I had a quick search but "tar" always turns up a
> huge amount of unwanted results. :)

There is no such... and several!

tarlib is old and I have not tried it.
TarIO from PIL (Python Imaging Library) is for reading TARs
and 
ztar 
from Zope is for creating them (look in archives of this group
to find who has it).

I wish archive_tar was available as sstandard Python 
module. If written, it will be no more than 8Kb of Python code.
 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Aug  6 03:23:12 2001
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 07:23:12 GMT
Subject: PEP? context overloading: if wants(type): ...
Message-ID: <9klgl0$1frt$1@news.idiom.com>

 I'm not qualified to formally champion a PEP, but I'd 
 like to raise the question here to see if it's of interest.

 One feature that I find interesting about PERL is it's 
 "context sensitivity."  (By contrast the inability to overload
 a function on *return* type is a limitation of C++ that I find
 irritating and unnecessary).  

 I'd propose, if I felt qualified to do so, to offer a "wants()"
 or builtin that would allow a method to determine the desired
 return type or "context" of an invocation.

 So the use could look like:

	import types
 	if wants(IntType):
		return n
	elif wants(TupleType):
		return (n1,n2)
	elif wants(StringType):	
		return `n`
	elif wants(VoidType):		# NoneType?
		return

 What am I missing about this?  What would it hurt?




From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 16 10:13:27 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:13:27 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org><MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <3b7a782f$0$250$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <R4Ae7.106367$EP6.27468550@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3b7bca91$0$97142$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <1526387.fx5fSG56mA@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Anders J. Munch <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> schrub:

> Another option would be to add a new infix operator to the language
> with the same precedence as /. Something with a long clunky name, like
> "__oldstyle_divide__", whose only raison d'?tre is compatibility
> hacks. Changing
>     E1 / E2
> to
>     E1 __oldstyle_divide__ E2
> doesn't require deep parsing.

The problem here is that / also is a word delimiter.

so you have to replace a/b with a __oldstyle_divide_ b, inserting 
blanks around the operator.


My way would be to let / be as it was, and to import // as a new 
operator that returns a float when dividing two integers who don't fit.

And then document this behaviour at famous places.

markus

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From dougfort at downright.com  Mon Aug  6 13:39:22 2001
From: dougfort at downright.com (Doug Fort)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 18:39:22 +0100
Subject: Python Framework for Learning Machine Challenge
Message-ID: <3b6ed64a$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com>

I'm fired up for the Learning Machine Challenge
(http://www.a-i.com/challenge/). I've developed a Python framework for bots
to interface with the  judge system. If you're working on a bot, this could
save you a few hours work on the boilerplate stuff.

I don't want to clutter up SourceForge with yet another one man project, so
the code is available at my website: http://www.dougfort.net/challenge.html.
It's not very well documented (yet) but the unit tests and sample app should
be fairly instructive. If  anyone besides me actually uses this, I'll put
some time into documentation.

I welcome patches, comments, criticism, etc.
--
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net




______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Thu Aug 16 20:16:20 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:16:20 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <hlionts1hamt30ojl6otn5gm7i02hh3b6q@4ax.com> <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <idoont8v6jshr22dvp1i4kigbgsck7qo3j@4ax.com>

>>>    abstract, directive, foreign, interface, static, yield

>>I think we'd have to talk seriously about _which_ keywords, and peronally
>>believe that Guido and team should handle the whole thing.

>I agree. But they should IMHO reserve any keywords they might possible use in
>future versions in a bunch. This would avoid from __future__ kludges and reduce
>the temptation of "clever" reusing of existing keywords.

Here! here! And all that. Just as long as we don't end up with 6 ways to use "static".
I personally reserve the right to rip off Tim's eyelids if that happens. "Wink *this*,
buddy!" :) :) :)

C//



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 22 21:25:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:25:11 -0400
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEFKLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
> collection

+ 100% portable out of the box, even to bizarre platforms.

+ Simple M&S is slower given Python's extremely high dynamic memory
throughput (*everything* in Python is heap-allocated, from execution frames
to ints, and RC is cache-friendly by nature, eager to reuse a piece of
memory ASAP; just picture "sum += i" in a loop, while keeping
"*everything's* heap-allocated" in mind).

+ Sharing data with random C, Fortran, Java etc programs is a godawful mess
when GC decides to move things around.  Python never moves objects, and
that's a major blessing when integrating with foreign systems.

> (which leaks memory if there's circular structure)

Recent Pythons collect those.

> instead of Lisp-style garbage collection?

Afraid that doesn't mean anything specific without reference to a specific
Lisp implementation; you seem to have compacting M&S in mind, perhaps
generational or perhaps not, but, regardless, the seminal role Lisp played
in driving GC algorithms means there's virtually nothing that isn't "Lisp-
style" for *some* value of "Lisp".

> As Python gets used for more large application development, it gets
> troublesome to make the programmer worry about whether the data has
> cycles.

Cycles are irrelevant now.  While it *is* a PITA to worry about refcounts,
it would be a bigger PITA to worry about memory moving.

> Also, using a compacting GC helps localize memory references, speeding
> up the program by improving cache performance.

If you dig for solid evidence that this is true in real programs, you may be
surprised at how little you find.  Try this for a starting point on why
deeper analysis suggests life is more complicated than picturing easy worst
cases (notwithstanding that I invited you to picture one above <wink>):

    http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html

> ...
> So maybe the GC implementation should be revisited at some point.

It's been revisited several times by several people.  The only thing the
implemented alternatives to date have consistently had in common is worse
performance.

ain't-nothin'-obvious-about-gc-strategies-ly y'rs  - tim




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 00:46:12 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:46:12 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <rhgh7.13554$54.522655@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x1ym22v6b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B85DC14.25A38EEA@engcorp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> > > > Python programmers tend to adopt a philosophy of making code work
> > > > rather than making code fast.  Given a choice of doing one or the
> > > > other, any reasonable person would pick the former.
> > >
> > > That is a platitude.  To paraphrase Jon Bentley: whatever computer
> > > system you're currently using to surf the web has hundreds of known,
> > > but minor, bugs.  If a fairy godmother appeared before each user and
> > > gave them one wish, and they had to choose between eliminating the
> > > bugs or making their surfing experience 100 times faster, do you
> > > really think every reasonable person would decline the speedup?  SPEED
> > > MATTERS.  From a user's point of view it sometimes matters even more
> > > than correctness.

I seem to be missing a lot of news messages these days.  The one to 
which Steve was responding, for example, never arrived at my server.  
Apologies if I missed any key points which were edited out above.

> The original claim was "any reasonable person will choose correctness
> overr speed".  If you narrow it from "any reasonable person" to
> "accountants", it's more valid.

I have to correct you here (no pun intended).  I did NOT make that
statement, and by misquoting you have changed the meaning of what
I said.  I specifically said "making code work", not "making code
correct".  There's a big difference, especially if concern over 
"correctness" implies a pedantic approach to programming.

> I just mean it's inappropriate to make sweeping statements about what
> "any reasonable person" wants.  It depends on the specific situation.

As you say, it depends on the specific situation, and in this 
situation I'm quite certain it *was* appropriate to make the 
claim I did.  Do you really deny that "any reasonable person 
will choose making code work rather than making it fast"?

Think about what "not working" means.  Not that when you surf the 
web (your example), you get some mouse droppings in the window, or 
the image background of the page is misaligned or truncated.  

It means you don't get the right page.  Or your browser crashes.
Or clicking on the links doesn't do anything at all.  Or your
personal files are exposed to some nefarious web-site operator.

I really think it's fair to say any reasonable person would
prefer that their browser "work" than that it exhibits one 
of these failure modes, but does it 100 times faster...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug 23 01:17:47 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:17:47 +1000
Subject: TypeError: not indexable in cgi.py?
In-Reply-To: <507185.998543207467.JavaMail.KurtJansen@gomailjtp01>
References: <507185.998543207467.JavaMail.KurtJansen@gomailjtp01>
Message-ID: <0108231517470Q.28818@ike>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 15:06, Kurt Jansen wrote:
> Sorry if this may be a newbie question, but that is exactly what I am.

Don't apologise, we're here to help :)


> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <TITLE>Family Information</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY><FORM method="POST" action="/cgi-bin/formhandler.py"
> enctype="text/plain" target="_self">First Name<INPUT size="12" type="text"
> name="fname" maxlength="20"> Last Name <INPUT size="15" type="text"
> name="lname"><BR> <INPUT type="submit" name="sub" value="Submit"></FORM>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>

I'm not sure what the exact problem is, but that enctype="text/plain" could 
be the culprit.


   Richard



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 28 22:52:44 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:52:44 +1000
Subject: bsddb module woes
Message-ID: <01082912524400.01463@ike>

We've just had a forced upgrade from redhat 6.2 to redhat 7.1, and the bsddb 
module won't open our (very important) db files any more.

Python 2.1 (#1, Aug 29 2001, 11:53:30) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import bsddb
>>> bsddb.btopen('nodes.issue', 'r')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
bsddb.error: (-30990, 'Unknown error 4294936306')
>>> 

I am guessing that this has something to do with the library that's been 
linked in. I've had to manually compile python 2.1 on the system, and all 
seemed to go fine.

[root at dirk lib.linux-i686-2.1]# ldd bsddb.so 
	libdb-3.1.so => /lib/libdb-3.1.so (0x4000b000)
	libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x40084000)
	/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x2aaaa000)

Any ideas? More information required?


    Richard



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug  5 23:46:07 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 23:46:07 -0400
Subject: Followup of the compatibility issue of smtplib
References: <mailman.997057809.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6E12FF.3D5FC747@engcorp.com>

> Dirksen Lau wrote:
>
> As Steve suggested, I run my script in debug mode, but don't find anything
> unusual(the mail still doesn't get to the destination). I attach the dubug
> log below, and please point out the trouble spot:
[...]
> send: 'data \015\012'
> reply: '354 Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>\015\012'
> reply: retcode (354); Msg: Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>
> data: (354, 'Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>')
> send: 'achee'
> send: '\015\012.\015\012'

Maybe the server is just being "smart" and knows that it is
pointless to send a message with no valid header tags, and 
no valid body!  (Header tags must be of the form "tag: stuff"
and the body is separated from the headers by a blank line.)

I suggest again that you try following *my* suggestion :-)
and connect manually, with Telnet.  Once you can successfully
send a message manually, go back and try to use Python to
generate the same conversation.  Until then, no point blaming
Python when you have no idea who is really at fault...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 17:47:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:47:46 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <9l4a9c023nn@enews4.newsguy.com> <52e5ab5f.0108131257.75a0e036@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lboti01grf@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Michael Robin" <me at mikerobin.com> wrote in message
news:52e5ab5f.0108131257.75a0e036 at posting.google.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<9l4a9c023nn at enews4.newsguy.com>...
> > "Glyph Lefkowitz" <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.997561650.27157.python-list at python.org...
> >     ...
> > > Also, as far as I know, better alternatives do not exist; for example,
> > > "promise" objects from a database which are latently initialized when
they
> > > are accessed.  One module that I use *all the time*;
> >
> > I don't know of any better way to handle the Promise design pattern,
> > either.  In C++, I'm having to kludge around it all the time via
> > letter/envelope idioms -- the possibility of changing classes on
> > the fly makes it much simpler and more direct.  Hadn't thought
> > of that earlier...
>
> Can't you use a proxy object and override __call__ and friends?
> (In a sense, that's what Smalltalk does with the Object Table,
> vs. Python which uses a non-changing address for the object.)
> Or am I missing something...

Yes, I can use an 'indirector' (that's basically what letter/envelope
is: Coplien, "Advanced C++", an oldie but goldie).  I'd rather not
have to code it up -- a weak reference (an almost-transparent,
built-in indirector) would do, if it just wasn't _weak_:-).


Alex





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Aug 16 01:42:24 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Dr. David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:42:24 -0400
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd) (fwd)
Message-ID: <A11e7kKkXUdN092yn@bellatlantic.net>                         

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
|Humans can't usually see the http response line with the actual 404 number
|in it in place of the 200 indicating an ok page, but machines can -- why
|don't you use that?

A couple reasons.  For one thing, my example was used to illustrate use
of some regular expressions.  But as an answer to the thread, that's
pretty weak :-).

Let's try again:  Because one might have previously crawled or proxied a
site, and want to figure out which downloaded pages are good (maybe not
using custom Python code for the crawling).  Not too bad.

But better still:

    #---------- check_url.py ----------#
    import sys
    from httplib import HTTP
    from urlparse import urlparse

    def checkURL(url):
        p = urlparse(url)
        h = HTTP(p[1])
        h.putrequest('HEAD', p[2])
        h.endheaders()
        return h.getreply()

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        for url in ('http://msnbc.com/nonsense','http://msnbc.com/',
                    'http://w3c.org/','http://w3c.org/nonsense',
                    'http://w3c.org/Consortium/','http://ibm.com/',
                    'http://ibm.com/nonsense'):
            print url, checkURL(url)[:2]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    % python check_url.py
    http://msnbc.com/nonsense (200, 'OK')
    http://msnbc.com/ (302, 'Object moved')
    http://w3c.org/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
    http://w3c.org/nonsense (301, 'Moved Permanently')
    http://w3c.org/Consortium/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
    http://ibm.com/ (200, 'OK')
    http://ibm.com/nonsense (404, 'Not Found')

I tried a few sites to get these examples... but not all *that* many.
All the sites that end in 'nonsense' LOOK, to my human eyes, like broken
links... and all the others look like content (well, except msnbc.com,
which refuses to load--I think because I won't give it a cookie--and
wouldn't actually be other than nonsense if it would load :-)).



From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 02:27:40 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:27:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
In-Reply-To: <3B8F1BE0.6060108@erols.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310223530.25646-101000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Edward C. Jones wrote:

> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Edward C. Jones wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Has anyone written in C a merge function for sorted Python sequences?
>
> > Sounds interesting, but... and don't take this the wrong way... I can barely
> > understand what you're trying to say. An example might help.
>
> Here is a Python program that does the same thing:
>
> def merge(seq1, seq2):
>      n1 = len(seq1)
>      n2 = len(seq2)
>      i = j = 0
>      merged = []
>      while i < n1 and j < n2:
>          if seq1[i] < seq2[j]:
> 	        merged.append(seq1[i])
> 	    i += 1
> 	else:
> 	    merged.append(seq2[j])
> 	    j += 1
>      if i == n1:
>          tail1 = []
>          tail2 = seq2[j:]
> 	else:
> 	    tail2 = []
>          tail1 = seq1[i:]
>      return merged, tail1, tail2

Here, I'm going to throw this code into the public domain.

It works real easy under Linux (you're on your own for other platforms):

1) Edit Makefile and change the two options to suit your favourite version of
     Python (you won't need to ask).
2) 'make; make install'

Then you can 'import ecj' and then use ecj.merge().

It only takes lists of ints, but it's a start.

Worked for me under 1.5.2 and 2.1.1.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ecjmodule-0.0.tar.gz
Type: application/x-gzip
Size: 1181 bytes
Desc: 
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010831/dbd8cf2b/attachment.bin>

From cnetzer at Stanford.EDU  Thu Aug 23 14:24:57 2001
From: cnetzer at Stanford.EDU (Chad Franklin Netzer)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:24:57 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9m3hpp$567$1@usenet.Stanford.EDU>

gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk writes:


>I don't think # is right, because it's already used for comments.  But 
>perhaps :][: would do the trick.  So it'd be v[5 :][: 2].  It's more 
>complex, but looks nice.  And doesn't introduce any new punctuation into 
>the language.  Shall I start on the PEP?

:-)  Well, *I* thought it was funny...

-- 
Chad Netzer
chad.netzer at stanfordalumni.org



From pibble at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:02:03 2001
From: pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 09:02:03 -0700
Subject: Which XML library to use?
Message-ID: <1136f745.0108060802.50812472@posting.google.com>

Hello all.

I've got some legacy code to maintain that was using the PyXML 0.5.4
release under Python 1.5.2.  We're moving to Python 2.1 for other
reasons, and now we find that out existing XML code won't work.

We could probably continue to use the PyXML 0.5.x release, except
we've found it won't work very well in Windows with Python 2.1.  (It
seems to work fine on Unix...)

So as I see it, our alternatives are:

1) Update our code to use the XML libraries now built-in to Python 2.1
(a non-trivial task.)

2) Update our code to use the PyXML 0.6.x release.  I see that there
is a Win32 release of this library compatible with Python 2.1. 
However, it looks like the interface is different enough from the 0.5
release to be just as much work as option #1.

3) Somehow hack PyXML 0.5 to work with Python2.1 on Win32.  We would
not have to change any of our legacy code.

Basically, I'm trying to decide between the first two options and need
some help.

Which is "recommended" set of XML libraries? The ones now included
with Python 2.1.1 or the PyXML 0.6.6 release?

It looks like the PyXML interface has changed significantly from 0.5.x
versions, so it wouldn't be a drop-in replacement for us.  Since it
looks like I'll be making extensive changes to our code for a new API
no matter what, the question becomes "which set of XML libraries is
more stable / 'better'?"

Can anyone offer some insight on this issue?

sincerely,

Preston Landers
Software Developer, Journyx Inc.
planders at journyx.com


From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 30 19:04:24 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:04:24 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <9mkqj9017al@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b8ebfe4.21582754@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:39:21 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
>news:3b8dc97b.60293093 at news.isar.de...
>    ...
>> There might be a slight ambiguity when function names are used without
>> arguments, because it then could be interpreted as either the function
>> object or the function call; but then again, I see writing the
>> function name as object without assigning it to some variable or some
>> such as rather pointless.
>
>And of course there's no problem interpreting whether:
>
>    blobber plikke
>
>means:
>
>    blobber(plikke)
>
>or:
>
>    blobber(plikke())
>
>is there?  I mean, it just takes some mindreading on the
>part of the compiler, interpreter AND human reader, that's
>all -- they'll just have to know or guess whether plikke
>names a function (or other callable object) and in that
>case whether it's "pointless" or "indispensable" for the
>plikke object itself to be passed in as the argument to
>blobber -- as opposed to its being called and the RESULT
>of the call passed as blobber's argument.  Piece of cake.
>
I'm sure it's important, not pointless, to be able to
distinguish access to a function as object from access as
a call, but one could conceive of more than one way to
be explicit. Tacking on () is one way.

For the sake of argument, playing devil's advocate, you could
make yourself a preprocessor which would recognize particular
function names from a list you supply, and if the name of such
a function appeared as the first white-space-delimited thing
on a line, it would put parens around the rest of the line and
substitute that, so
    foo x
would become
    foo(x)
and you would explicitly have determined what was going to happen.
(If you try to rebind foo, you're responsible if you put white
space between foo and the '=' ;-)

BTW, it might be interesting if symbols existed as objects that
could be returned by a function on the left hand side of '='
so that
    def foo()
        return symbol('xxx')
    ...
    foo() = 'yyy'
would result in
    >>> xxx
    'yyy'
and foo would remain bound to the function.



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Tue Aug  7 11:20:50 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:20:50 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: scope question
In-Reply-To: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010807172046.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 07-Aug-2001 Mark Robinson wrote:
 >  why does it find the global variable in the first case and not in the 
 >  second?

See 

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.036.htp
  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.057.htp

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    07-Aug-2001
Time:    17:19:27

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug  1 19:27:04 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:27:04 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <cf0a7.58667$EP6.13873011@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:9ka118$mj8$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
> He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
> of figure it out himself.

What we need here are better error messages: a more explicit 'none
object is not subscriptable' might have steered him to the problem.

Terry J. Reedy





From Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de  Sun Aug 19 19:05:51 2001
From: Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 23:05:51 GMT
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <7xae0v6ehm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o084u.3vvilp7.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>

On 19 Aug 2001 12:23:17 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:

>  Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig) writes:
>> Access restriction should never be used to arbitrarily prevent a user from
>> performing a task. The only idea behind restriction is to hide internal
>> details for having more stable code. 

> That ignores a whole class of applications which run potentially malicious
> code, such as mobile code.  If Visual Basic had good access restriction
> features, we might not see nearly so many computer viruses spreading
> through MS Outlook and Word documents 

Everthing of worth has to be sacrificed to prevent M$ from taking world
dominion and it's catastrophic impact? The real problem is a program like
OjE which allows such viruses to work. Otherwise nobody would even see this
'problem'.

I don't know a virus which can infect my newsreader slrn (open source) - it
should be simply not possible to write one. And this restriction makes
obviously sense. It should not be possible for an article (or an email) to
do anything harmfull. And this will only work if the author has the will
(and the ability) to forbid it. Strictly. Ok, in case of this word documents
you have to do nothing but _not_ to be so highly foolish as M$ to allow such
a mechanism to work. These people integrate an interpreter and let him say:
"Welcome my dear unknown code - what shall I do for You?" - unbelievable.





Bernd


From olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com  Wed Aug 15 03:11:51 2001
From: olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com (Olivier Scalbert)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:11:51 +0200
Subject: spawnv
References: None <3B79BD94.4993F25B@algosyn.com> <997853320.164001@yabetcha.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <3B7A20B7.864EE8E7@algosyn.com>

Donn Cave wrote:

> Quoth Olivier Scalbert <olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com>:
>
> | On my Linux box, the following code does not start /usr/bin/gears:
> |
> | import os
> | print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ())
> |
> | In fact it print 127 !
>
>    >>> print os.spawnv.__doc__
>    spawnv(mode, file, args) -> integer
>
>    Execute file with arguments from args in a subprocess.
>    ...
>
> "args" means the argv argument vector for the command, which
> starts with the name of the program.  E.g.,
>
>    os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ("gears",))
>
>         Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com

Thanks, it is ok !

Olivier



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 02:27:35 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:27:35 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: server question
In-Reply-To: <oG1d7.8274$vp.1265600@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108111025461.5959-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, vin wrote:

>I am trying to evaluate a string with a simple server and send the result
>back but I can't get it to work.
>
>import socket
>
>def start_server(PORT):
>    HOST = ' '                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host

Hmmm... I always thought this supposed to be ''

>    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>    s.bind((HOST, PORT))
>    s.listen(1)
>    conn, addr = s.accept()
>    print 'Connected by', addr
>    while 1:
>        data = conn.recv(1024)
>        if not data : break
>        conn.send(eval(data))
>    conn.close()
>
>When I send "5*6" the server chrashes.  ....
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "server.py", line 13, in start_server
>    print 'Evaluated', eval(data)
>  File "<string>", line 1
>    5*6
>       ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>How can I get it to work?

Maybe, you can try to
string.strip expression before evaluation?

>Thanks


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/




From kalab at gmx.net  Sun Aug 26 09:38:34 2001
From: kalab at gmx.net (Gerhard Kalab)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:38:34 +0200
Subject: ZODB and COM Server - how to create collection attribute?
Message-ID: <3b88fb46$0$31252$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

I'd like to write a COM-Server and use ZODB for persistence.

The following code doesn't work, because the class Person has a
COM-collection (books) which cannot be pickled.
It would be easy to change the books attribute to get and set COM-methods to
get and set the books list. But is it possible to use a COM-attribute?
Is there any way I can change the books list to a list of normal python
objects before it is going to be saved? And can I change it back to a
COM-collection after the list is loaded by ZODB?
Any other ideas?

Thank you,
Gerhard

#server.py
import ZODB, ZODB.FileStorage
import Persistence
import win32com.client
from win32com.server.util import wrap, unwrap

class Book(Persistence.Persistent):
    _public_methods_ = []
    _public_attrs_ = ["title"]
    def __init__(self):
        self.title = ""

class Person(Persistence.Persistent):
    _public_methods_ = ["addBook"]
    _public_attrs_ = ["name", "books"]
    def __init__(self):
        self.name = ""
        self.books = []
    def addBook(self):
        b = Book()
        wrapped = wrap(b)
        self.books.append(wrapped)
        self._p_changed = 1
        return wrapped

class PRoot(Persistence.Persistent):
    def __init__(self):
        self.persons = []
    def addPerson(self):
        p = Person()
        self.persons.append(p)
        self._p_changed = 1
        return wrap(p)

class Root:
    _reg_clsid_ = "{D37DE5DB-EFA6-4135-9B85-250D9F988E35}"
    _reg_desc_ = "Root"
    _reg_progid_ = "Server.Root"
    _public_methods_ = ["setConnection", "addPerson", "save"]
    _public_attrs_ = ["persons"]
    _readonly_attrs_ = ["persons"]
    def __init__(self):
        self.persons = []
    def setConnection(self, storage):
        self.storage = ZODB.FileStorage.FileStorage(storage)
        self.db = ZODB.DB(self.storage)
        self.connection = self.db.open()
        self.root = self.connection.root()
        get_transaction().begin()
        if not self.root.has_key("root"):
            self.rootobj = self
            self.root["root"] = PRoot()
        self.rootobj = self.root["root"]
        for p in self.rootobj.persons:
            self.persons.append(wrap(p))
    def addPerson(self):
        p = self.rootobj.addPerson()
        self.persons.append(p)
        return p
    def __del__(self):
        self.connection.close()
    def save(self):
        get_transaction().commit()

if __name__=='__main__':
    import win32com.server.register
    win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(Root)

#-----------------

#client.py
from win32com.client import Dispatch
root = Dispatch("Server.Root")
root.setConnection("data.fs")
for name in ["Foo", "Bar"]:
    person = root.addPerson()
    person.name = name
    book = person.addBook()
    book.title = "abc"
persons = root.persons
for person in persons:
    print person.name
    for book in person.books:
        print book.title
root.save() #--> fails




From kalath at lycos.com  Thu Aug  2 11:31:32 2001
From: kalath at lycos.com (Mark Brady)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:31:32 -0700
Subject: is there a JDOM like library?
References: <tmgvd9gdmbm26e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <e840346c.0108020731.4dc50873@posting.google.com>

"David" <david.perkinson at adtran.com> wrote in message news:<tmgvd9gdmbm26e at corp.supernews.com>...
> Is there a DOM/XML GPL'd library for Python that is as easy to use as JDOM?

See http://4suite.org/ 

4Suite inculdes XPath which is an extremely simple yet powerful way of
navigating through xml (JDOM is including XPATH soon and dom4j already
has it). If you haven't looked in to XPATH yet go to
http://www.zvon.org/xxl/XPathTutorial/General/examples.html

I just found it and it's exactly what I needed for xml (use dom4j from
dom4j.org in java if you want xpath). XPath is simple, powerful and
standardised as well.

Regards,
Mark Brady.


From cliechti at mails.ch  Mon Aug  6 18:28:28 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 00:28:28 +0200
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
Message-ID: <Xns90F657E12B65cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

interested in a hack that opens a python interactive interpreter that is 
accessible using telnet? get the hack here:

http://www.geocities.com/chrisliechti/en/python/index.html

i think it can be useful for debugging GUI apps... at least therefore i've 
written it.

-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Tue Aug 21 16:59:20 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:59:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Python in Vim
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211558140.10531-200000@hex.local.net>

Hi python rabbits -
	I have made an addition to python.vim that I sent (or at least I
think I sent) to this list a couple of days ago.  It can add a
'IM-Python' menu to Gvim that holds the name of all the classes in the
file.  Clicking on one of those hops to the line number of that
function.  You can get the list by editing a Python file, then doing:

	:call MakeMenuStructure()

---then it will go on forever, just type ^C and <Enter> (it reports
bugs, but it will work nonetheless) and you have the menu.  Since it
still sort of has bugs, I haven't put it on the WWW yet.  I would
appreciate it a lot of someone could figure out the bug.  I have also
added code to do the defs, but it won't work until the bug is fixed,
sorry.

PS: sorry if you got this twice, I didn't recieve a copy after I sent it
the first time, and it wasn't in the archives, so I decided to send it
to the list this time.


-- 
     LISP          Lots-Of-Infuriatingly-Stupid-Parentheses
               -- Steve Horne

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/
-------------- next part --------------
" -*- vim -*-
" FILE: python.vim
" LAST MODIFICATION: 2001/07/07
" (C) Copyright 2001 Mikael Berthe <mikael.berthe at efrei.fr>
" Version: 1.1

" USAGE:
"
" Juste source this script when editing Python files.
" Example: au FileType python source ~me/.vim/scripts/python.vim
" You can set the global variable "g:py_select_leading_comments" to 0
" if you don't want to select comments preceding a declaration (these
" are usually the description of the function/class).
" You can set the global variable "g:py_select_trailing_comments" to 0
" if you don't want to select comments at the end of a function/class.
" If these variables are not defined, both leading and trailing comments
" are selected.
" Example: (in your .vimrc) "let g:py_select_leading_comments = 0"
" You may want to take a look at the 'shiftwidth' option for the
" shift commands...
"
" REQUIREMENTS:
" vim (>= 600)
"
" Shortcuts:
"   [[      -- Jump to beginning of block
"   ]]      -- Jump to end of block
"   ]v      -- Select (Visual Line Mode) block
"   ]<      -- Shift block to left
"   ]>      -- Shift block to right
"   ]c      -- Select current/previous class
"   ]f      -- Select current/previous function
"   ]<up>   -- Jump to previous line with the same/lower indentation
"   ]<down> -- Jump to next line with the same/lower indentation


map  [[   :PBoB<CR>
vmap [[   :<C-U>PBoB<CR>m'gv``
map  ]]   :PEoB<CR>
vmap ]]   :<C-U>PEoB<CR>m'gv``

map  ]v   [[V]]
map  ]<   [[V]]<
vmap ]<   <
map  ]>   [[V]]>
vmap ]>   >

map  ]c   :call PythonSelectObject("class")<CR>
map  ]f   :call PythonSelectObject("function")<CR>

map  ]<up>    :call PythonNextLine(-1)<CR>
map  ]<down>  :call PythonNextLine(1)<CR>
" You may prefer use <s-up> and <s-down>... :-)



" Menu entries
nmenu <silent> &Python.Beginning\ of\ Block<Tab>[[ 
    \[[
nmenu <silent> &Python.End\ of\ Block<Tab>]] 
    \]]
nmenu &Python.-Sep1- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Left<Tab>]< 
    \]<
vmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Left<Tab>]< 
    \]<
nmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Right<Tab>]> 
    \]>
vmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Right<Tab>]> 
    \]>
nmenu &Python.-Sep2- :
vmenu <silent> &Python.Comment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonCommentSelection()<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Comment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonCommentSelection()<CR>
vmenu <silent> &Python.Uncomment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonUncommentSelection()<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Uncomment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonUncommentSelection()<CR>
nmenu &Python.-Sep3- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Previous\ Class 
    \:call PythonDec("class", -1)<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Next\ Class 
    \:call PythonDec("class", 1)<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Previous\ Function 
    \:call PythonDec("function", -1)<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Next\ Function 
    \:call PythonDec("function", 1)<CR>
nmenu &Python.-Sep4- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Select\ Block<Tab>]v 
    \]v
nmenu <silent> &Python.Select\ Function<Tab>]f 
    \]f
nmenu <silent> &Python.Select\ Class<Tab>]c 
    \]c
nmenu &Python.-Sep5- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Previous\ Line\ wrt\ indent<Tab>]<up> 
    \]<up>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Next\ Line\ wrt\ indent<Tab>]<down> 
    \]<down>


:com! PBoB execute "normal ".PythonBoB(line('.'), -1, 1)."G"
:com! PEoB execute "normal ".PythonBoB(line('.'), 1, 1)."G"



" Go to a block boundary (-1: previous, 1: next)
" If force_sel_comments is true, 'g:py_select_trailing_comments' is ignored
function! PythonBoB(line, direction, force_sel_comments)
  let ln = a:line
  let ind = indent(ln)
  let mark = ln
  let indent_valid = strlen(getline(ln))
  let ln = ln + a:direction
  if (a:direction == 1) && (!a:force_sel_comments) && 
      \ exists("g:py_select_trailing_comments") && 
      \ (!g:py_select_trailing_comments)
    let sel_comments = 0
  else
    let sel_comments = 1
  endif

  while((ln >= 1) && (ln <= line('$')))
    if  (sel_comments) || (match(getline(ln), "^\\s*#") == -1)
      if (!indent_valid)
        let indent_valid = strlen(getline(ln))
        let ind = indent(ln)
        let mark = ln
      else
        if (strlen(getline(ln)))
          if (indent(ln) < ind)
            break
          endif
          let mark = ln
        endif
      endif
    endif
    let ln = ln + a:direction
  endwhile

  return mark
endfunction


" Go to previous (-1) or next (1) class/function definition
function! PythonDec(obj, direction)
  if (a:obj == "class")
    let objregexp = "^\\s*class\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+"
        \ . "\\s*\\((\\([a-zA-Z0-9_,. \\t\\n]\\)*)\\)\\=\\s*:"
  else
    let objregexp = "^\\s*def\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+\\s*(\\_[^:#]*)\\s*:"
  endif
  let flag = "W"
  if (a:direction == -1)
    let flag = flag."b"
  endif
  let res = search(objregexp, flag)
endfunction


" Comment out selected lines
" commentString is inserted in non-empty lines, and should be aligned with
" the block
function! PythonCommentSelection()  range
  let commentString = "#"
  let cl = a:firstline
  let ind = 1000    " I hope nobody use so long lines! :)

  " Look for smallest indent
  while (cl <= a:lastline)
    if strlen(getline(cl))
      let cind = indent(cl)
      let ind = ((ind < cind) ? ind : cind)
    endif
    let cl = cl + 1
  endwhile
  if (ind == 1000)
    let ind = 1
  else
    let ind = ind + 1
  endif

  let cl = a:firstline
  execute ":".cl
  " Insert commentString in each non-empty line, in column ind
  while (cl <= a:lastline)
    if strlen(getline(cl))
      execute "normal ".ind."|i".commentString
    endif
    execute "normal j"
    let cl = cl + 1
  endwhile
endfunction

" Uncomment selected lines
function! PythonUncommentSelection()  range
  " commentString could be different than the one from CommentSelection()
  " For example, this could be "# \\="
  let commentString = "#"
  let cl = a:firstline
  while (cl <= a:lastline)
    let ul = substitute(getline(cl),
             \"\\(\\s*\\)".commentString."\\(.*\\)$", "\\1\\2", "")
    call setline(cl, ul)
    let cl = cl + 1
  endwhile
endfunction


" Select an object ("class"/"function")
function! PythonSelectObject(obj)
  " Go to the object declaration
  normal $
  call PythonDec(a:obj, -1)
  let beg = line('.')

  if !exists("g:py_select_leading_comments") || (g:py_select_leading_comments)
    let decind = indent(beg)
    let cl = beg
    while (cl>1)
      let cl = cl - 1
      if (indent(cl) == decind) && (getline(cl)[decind] == "#")
        let beg = cl
      else
        break
      endif
    endwhile
  endif

  if (a:obj == "class")
    let eod = "\\(^\\s*class\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+\\s*"
            \ . "\\((\\([a-zA-Z0-9_,. \\t\\n]\\)*)\\)\\=\\s*\\)\\@<=:"
  else
   let eod = "\\(^\\s*def\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+\\s*(\\_[^:#]*)\\s*\\)\\@<=:"
  endif
  " Look for the end of the declaration (not always the same line!)
  call search(eod, "")

  " Is it a one-line definition?
  if match(getline('.'), "^\\s*\\(#.*\\)\\=$", col('.')) == -1
    let cl = line('.')
    execute ":".beg
    execute "normal V".cl."G"
  else
    " Select the whole block
    normal j
    let cl = line('.')
    execute ":".beg
    execute "normal V".PythonBoB(cl, 1, 0)."G"
  endif
endfunction


" Jump to the next line with the same (or lower) indentation
" Useful for moving between "if" and "else", for example.
function! PythonNextLine(direction)
  let ln = line('.')
  let ind = indent(ln)
  let indent_valid = strlen(getline(ln))
  let ln = ln + a:direction

  while((ln >= 1) && (ln <= line('$')))
    if (!indent_valid) && strlen(getline(ln)) 
        break
    else
      if (strlen(getline(ln)))
        if (indent(ln) <= ind)
          break
        endif
      endif
    endif
    let ln = ln + a:direction
  endwhile

  execute "normal ".ln."G"
endfunction


" make a menu structure with names of classes and variables and such
function! MakeMenuStructure () 
  norm mpG$
  while line ( "." ) > 0
    call search ( '^\s*class\s\+', 'b' )
    norm 02fsll"nyt:
    let name=@n
    exe 'menu IM-Python.'.name.' '.line(".").'gg'
    norm k
  endwhile
  norm 'p
endfunction
    


" vim:set et sts=2 sw=2:

From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Aug 25 10:08:31 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:08:31 +0200
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
References: <283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9m8ba6$r66$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

> using the CGI-one shot version of webware and don't want to also have
> to load a complete database into memory.  So, mysql, postgress, and

One-shot restarts the app server everytime you call it. This is for
development only. Using a db server should prevent you from loading a db
into mem in either case.

> such are too heavy.
No. If you do serious work, you *will* need a db system. I've wasted
precious time lookin' for a way not to use an RDBMS. Seems that you are at a
point I was a few months ago.

> such are too heavy. I'll be lucky to find a way to run Webware on an
> isp's site anyway.  Are there any alternative database libraries for

They maintain a list of Webware driendly ISPs.

After working with Webware for some time now i can say it is definitely a
pleasure to use it. Its MiddleKit lets you use an RDBMS (right now it's
MySQL and MS SQL Server) with very little pain (if there's any).

Regards
Franz


"Kevin Dahlhausen" <kdahlhaus at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e at posting.google.com...
> I'm getting ready to experiment with Webware.  I'd like to use a
> simple database or somewhat efficient persistant store as I'll be
> using the CGI-one shot version of webware and don't want to also have
> to load a complete database into memory.  So, mysql, postgress, and
> such are too heavy. I'll be lucky to find a way to run Webware on an
> isp's site anyway.  Are there any alternative database libraries for
> python out there?  SQL's ok, python objects to disk in some rational
> way would work too, if I could load them without pulling every object
> into memory first.  Thanks




From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug  5 00:41:16 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 04:41:16 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net> <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <Xns90F42767ED10Arcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3b6cc64c.4395340@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 02:13:04 GMT, Robert Amesz <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> wrote:

>Chris Tavares wrote:
>
>> "Robert Amesz" <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
>>
>> [Is Bison output GPL?]
>>
>>> But he's right about Bison, I remember that distinctly: output
>>> from Bison should be considered GPLed because it contains GPLed
>>> sourcecode from Bison.
>>
>> Really? I don't have the docs handy right now, but I distinctly
>> remember there being a specific exception in the Bison license to
>> deal with this exact problem - you're allowed to use the Bison
>> generated code & parser engine in whatever you want, no GPL
>> restrictions apply. Unless the license has changed in the last five
>> years, anyway. 
>
Well, I found the .gz file I downloaded some time ago (after looking at
it and flex, it turned out flex was more powerful than I expected, so I
wound up just using it  with a little extra on my part):

99-07-26  17:01    420,341 bison-1_28_tar.gz
The way I read it, it says they decided to loosen up on Bison as of version 1.24:

file bison.info in that archive contains:
"...
   This manual documents version 1.28 of Bison.
...
   Bison was written primarily by Robert Corbett; Richard Stallman made
it Yacc-compatible.  Wilfred Hansen of Carnegie Mellon University added
multicharacter string literals and other features.

   This edition corresponds to version 1.28 of Bison.
...
Conditions for Using Bison
**************************

   As of Bison version 1.24, we have changed the distribution terms for
`yyparse' to permit using Bison's output in non-free programs.
Formerly, Bison parsers could be used only in programs that were free
software.

   The other GNU programming tools, such as the GNU C compiler, have
never had such a requirement.  They could always be used for non-free
software.  The reason Bison was different was not due to a special
policy decision; it resulted from applying the usual General Public
License to all of the Bison source code.

   The output of the Bison utility--the Bison parser file--contains a
verbatim copy of a sizable piece of Bison, which is the code for the
`yyparse' function.  (The actions from your grammar are inserted into
this function at one point, but the rest of the function is not
changed.)  When we applied the GPL terms to the code for `yyparse', the
effect was to restrict the use of Bison output to free software.

   We didn't change the terms because of sympathy for people who want to
make software proprietary.  *Software should be free.*  But we
concluded that limiting Bison's use to free software was doing little to
encourage people to make other software free.  So we decided to make the
practical conditions for using Bison match the practical conditions for
using the other GNU tools."


>
>Ah, let's see. I collected some HTML-pages some time ago with Bison 
>documentation. It says:
>
[... 1.20 version of above info ...]
>
>So the terms of use may very well have changed after this was written, 
>and it may not appply to some or all versions of Bison above 1.20, but 
>this is what I have on the subject.
>
They did change, apparently ;-)

I don't think they can change their mind back, can they?
The most recent time stamp of a file in that .gz file of 1.28
is a couple of years old now.



From blong at fiction.net  Fri Aug 31 17:03:58 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:03:58 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <15247.15809.803604.795504@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829151706.A27274@pulp> <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829213051.A27754@pulp> <20010830173135.A30182@pulp> <15247.8715.290395.28966@beluga.mojam.com> <20010831000830.A31220@pulp> <15247.15809.803604.795504@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010831140358.A32482@pulp>

On 08/31/01 Skip Montanaro uttered the following other thing:
>     >> Hmmm...  Works for me in 2.1.1:
>     ...
> 
>     Brandon> You miss understand.  You have to do this in the context of the
>     Brandon> embedded environment, ie where it creates an interpreter state
>     Brandon> than destroys it before creating another one (ie, like PyApache
>     Brandon> does it)
> 
> Thanks for clarifying.  You should probably submit a bug report and patch to
> Sourceforge if you haven't already done so.

Apparently this bug was already fixed in the python 2.2 cvs tree as of
8/13.

Brandon
-- 
  "Have been unavoidably detained by the world.
      Expect us when you see us." -- Neil Gaiman, _Stardust_
                                              http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Aug 17 12:38:02 2001
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:38:02 -0500
Subject: automating word 2000
Message-ID: <2Kbf7.769$5N2.215075@news1.iquest.net>

i have an application that generates MS Word documents.  the generating part
works fine.  the trouble is that often while one document is being written a
second one will be started.  when this happens, the second document becomes
the default, both automating processes only write to the default one making
for a big mess (one document with stuff in it from two controlling
programs).

this happens when the clients are both from the same program, when one is
pythonwin and the other is python, and when the clients are on different
computers controlling a server with dcom.

one thought is to build a queuing system that will keep track of whether a
document is being generated (like a print spooler or something) and make the
other wait.  this seems like a clumsy solution. a way to launch Word as its
own thread threaded would be favorable, but i have no idea if this can be
done, or how to start.

does anyone have an idea either way?

thanks,

doug

dsavitsk at e-coli.net





From just at letterror.com  Wed Aug  8 13:09:03 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:09:03 +0200
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1> <f9ec7.101122$Cy.14802622@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B71722F.77E461EB@letterror.com>

Tim Hochberg wrote:

> Or did you mean something completely different?

I think he meant to map a method of the items in the list, as in
the example I just posted.

Just


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug  9 08:56:53 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:56:53 -0400
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997359736.9019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B728895.5A50894@engcorp.com>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
> [Roman Suzi]
> 
> > After some time working with Python I noticed that I use "-s and '-s
> > according to the following rule: I use "" quotes when I specify value
> > MANUALLY. That is, in most cases.  On the other hand, I use '' where
> > quotes are generated automatically. This is consistent with repr(),
> > which gives ''.
> 
> Observing myself, I noticed that I use "..." for text meant to be displayed
> and read by a human, and '...' for more internal, programmatic strings.
> It works well for me, to the point I turned this into a personal style rule.

This would make it easier to write/use a utility which extracted
all human-targetted strings into an external database for supporting
multi-language capabilities...

Hmm, I'll have to scan our code and see if there is any particular
bias or style evident...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 16:30:20 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:30:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <thiiotcmiu3bg4pf3bbcd6k00q1k9gv2gm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261626480.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> Notice that you can append an optional 'l' to the mode, if your
> installation supports locking.
>
> Here is an interactive session:
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
> [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import dbhash
> >>> db = dbhash.open('rec', 'rl')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
>     return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
> bsddb.error: locking not supported on this platform
> >>>
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

Hmmm...

The only thing I can think of is to get a copy of libdb.dll 3.3.1 from
somewhere (I checked Google and couldn't find it, and I left my copy of
VC++ 6.0 in my other pants...), put it in your local directory, and try again.
DLLs, like Python modules, check the current directory before trying the other
standard directories.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From rossi at earthling.net  Sat Aug 25 05:45:51 2001
From: rossi at earthling.net (Thorsten Roskowetz)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:45:51 +0200
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <20010824122940.I930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242042450.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru> <mailman.998684079.924.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m7s35$9s1$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Drew Csillag" <drew_csillag at geocities.com> wrote:
> BTW: on a totally side thing: can Zope do virtual hosting?

Yes.

http://www.zope.org/Members/mwr/VHosts_With_Zope_Default

Cheers,

Thorsten




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 28 07:39:17 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:39:17 GMT
Subject: Python ODBC
References: <1b9aff84.0108280145.1298676a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FpLi7.509861$lq1.102524998@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

for sqlInsert try
NameofDatabase.Tracks instead of Tracks and see if this works.
Maan

"Clayton Brown - Emmie Osawa" <claysjunkmail at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1b9aff84.0108280145.1298676a at posting.google.com...
> I am trying a basic case of SQL Insert INTO an access databse using
> python.
> Can anyone point out why this does not work? Note: DSN works, SQL
> works in SQL2000, TRACKS table exists, database = access 2000.
>
> <CODE>
> import dbi, odbc
>
> sqlInsert = "INSERT INTO TRACKS (INTERNAL_ID) VALUES ('1472738')"
> myconn = odbc.odbc('CD_DSN')
> cursor = myconn.cursor()
> cursor.execute(sqlInsert)
> myconn.commit()
> cursor.close()
> myconn.close()
> </CODE>
>
>
> Error Produced:
> cursor.execute(sqlInsert)
> dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver]
> Could not find output table 'TRACKS'. in EXEC




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug  3 00:42:25 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:42:25 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <slrn9mk0as.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCECGLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Frank "Finger Fart" Lomax]
> Considering that I write 10k-50k lines of Python a day . . .

[Carl Fink]
> Fifty thousand lines?  Okay, assume each line has two words, that's
> 100,000 words.  Now assume you type at 100 words per minute, and
> never stop to think.  That's *over 16 hours* of typing.  Per day.

Give the guy a break, Carl.  Frank may not be the swiftest coder around, but
it's really not unusual for newcomers to take as long as 3 weeks to reach
the 100 Kline/day Python median.  If Frank is *very* new at Python (which it
sounds like), he'll see a big improvement when he breaks himself of the
habit of reaching for his curly-brace keys all the time.

i-personally-use-indent-and-dedent-foot-pedals-but-then-i'm-a-pro-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 04:45:45 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:45:45 +0100
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFAA@intrepid>

> From:	Rob Andrews [SMTP:rob at jam.rr.com]
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/ is the location of Alan Gauld's
> *Learning to Program* tutorial, which may be downloaded. It's spiffy.
 
Since he has programmed before, 'Dive into Python at
<http://diveintopython.org/> might be a better choice - Alan's tutorials is
aimed at people new to programming.

Links to *loads* of tutorials can be found at
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Docu
mentation_and_Tutorials/>.

And don't forget the Python tutor mailing list, at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>. Well worth joining if you
are learning Python!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Mon Aug 27 18:01:32 2001
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:01:32 +0200
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
References: <MPG.15f43279f613af34989682@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.15f4e1a52f7df5cb989683@news.easynews.net>

Hi,
imprisoned in my hazelnut sized brain it took me 10 minutes till I got
what some of you suggested... Using the tuples as keys. How simple,
how brilliant. I will try this tomorrow.

Thanks to all of you.
Marcus


From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Fri Aug 31 17:48:23 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:48:23 -0700
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
References: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com> <8YEj7.189437$g_3.36890426@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9mnbvu$t1t$1@mail.cn99.com>

ok,thank u




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Thu Aug  9 14:18:55 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:18:55 +0200
Subject: Mailman archiver (inadvisable) translates Latin 1 characters
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108092013100.1780-100000@cens.ioc.ee>

This message was originally sent to mailman users group but due to the
delay there I'll try this newsgroup if someone could help me.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:46:28 +0200 (EET)
From: Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Latin 1 characters


Hi!

I have noticed that latin 1 (or rather non US ascii) characters are mapped
to 3-strings starting with = character when messages are shown in the
Mailman archive. For example,

? -> =F5
? -> =D5
? -> =E4
? -> =C4
? -> =F6
? -> =D6
? -> =FC
? -> =DC
\t -> =09

Which part of Mailman does this translation? Can I affect this in any way?
Currently I am having a thought of scanning
	mailman/archives/private/<list>.mbox
for strings r'=[A-F0-9][A-F0-9]' and replacing them with the original
characters (and then rerunning arch on that list).
But is there a better way of getting the same result?

Any hints are appreciated.
Thanks,
	Pearu




From aahz at panix.com  Thu Aug  2 08:43:31 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 05:43:31 -0700
Subject: How to define a GLOBAL Variable ?
References: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <9kbhtj$dbu$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3b68d0d5 at news.iprimus.com.au>,
Peter Moscatt <pmoscatt at iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>If I wish to define a variable that I want to become global to ALL classes
>within a .py file - how is this best achieved ?

Depends whether you want write access to that variable or not.  If it's
read-only, just set the variable at the top of the module.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 16:47:02 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:47:02 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com> <9m3028025bu@enews4.newsguy.com> <3b855d84.271366254@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3b856ab4.274742959@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:55:13 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:21:47 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>
[...]
>>Further, it's such an EASY thing to do -- the proposed
>>    a[b # c]
>>is EXACTLY the same as
>>    a[b:b+c]
>>so where's the added value to justify something as major
>>as adding a new operator...?
>>
>I would rather have the alternative syntax
>    a[b:+c]
>
Actually, I think my later post is better, suggesting
    a[b:+=c]
as short (assuming >1 letter expressions ;-) for
    a[b:b+c]
I.e., a general pattern where 'op=' operates
with the other slice parameter to make a value.
    a[-=c:b]
would be short for
    a[b-c:b]



From parz at home.com  Wed Aug  1 02:39:49 2001
From: parz at home.com (Parzival Herzog)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 06:39:49 GMT
Subject: Need help: Trying to use PyObject_CallMethod, PyObject_CallFunction,  seems to fail quietly.
Message-ID: <VuN97.2965$DW1.535816@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

I am using ActiveState Python 2.1  on Win 2000.

I am trying to call a method of an object from C, using code like this:

--- in C code:

static PyObject     *_App;
...
      if ( _App )
         PyObject_CallMethod(_App, "OnRClick", "ii", Point.x, Point.y);
...

--- in Python code

class wxApp:

    _top = None

    def __init__(self):
        # Pass self as the object containing "OnRClick" to MyWin extension module
        MyWin.CreateWindow(self, "EmsView 1.0")
        self.OnInit()

    def MainLoop(self):
        MyWin.MessageLoop()

    def SetTopWindow(self,top):
        wxApp._top = top
        top._Establish()

    def OnRedraw(self):
        _top._Draw()

    def OnRClick(self, x, y):
        print "OnRClick x=", x, "y=", y
        event = _PosEvent(0, wxEVT_RIGHT_UP, (x,y))
        _top.ProcessEvent(event)



The PyObject_CallMethod is definitely reached, but the OnRClick method is
apparently not invoked. There are no exceptions or traps.

Using PyObject_CallFunction on a global function seems to behave in the same way.

What am I doing wrong here?

- Parzival




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 18:05:09 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:05:09 -0500
Subject: Python on Sun Cobalts?
In-Reply-To: <200108012059.OAA13962@marge.mediasset.com>
References: <200108012059.OAA13962@marge.mediasset.com>
Message-ID: <15208.32021.768359.875550@beluga.mojam.com>

    Matt> AttributeError: 'os' module has no attribute '_get_exports_list'

    Matt> This is python 2.1.1 built from source and zope 2.4.0 binary
    Matt> install.  Is there something peculiar about MIPS architecture that
    Matt> I will need to account for?

Nothing that I'm aware of.  Does the Zope 2.4.0 binary install use Python
2.1 or later?  My guess is "no".  In 2.1 os.py does indeed have a
_get_exports_list function.

Try this:

    import imp
    imp.find_module('socket')
    imp.find_module('os')

One or the other of those modules is probably found in the wrong place.
Sounds like you are using a 2.1+ version of the socket module with a pre-2.1
version of the os module.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 16:15:05 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:15:05 -0400
Subject: Is 0 > None??
In-Reply-To: <3B8F4F9B.3BEE4090@home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEEGLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Manus Hand]
> Version 2.0 has None > sys.maxint (and I liked it that way)

As has been said, it's not defined.

> Version 2.1.1 has None < sys.minint (and I wish it weren't)

And it still isn't defined.  For that matter, neither is "sys.minint".

> Version 2.1.1 seems to be a reversion to 1.5.1 and earlier in this
> respect.

Nope, it's all accidents.  It so happens that if you compare None with
anything non-None today, and the compare doesn't raise an exception, None
compares less.  But that's not defined either, so don't rely on it.





From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug 30 09:29:57 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:29:57 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python GUI
In-Reply-To: <01083009230200.21251@magneto>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108301728150.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Charles wrote:

This is really FAQ!

> Hi 
> 
> What's the best (more complete) GUI library to use with python ?
> Tkinter ? wxPython ? PyKDE ? ...

Some search in the archives of this maillist or comp.lang.python
will give you what you need to know.

See also:

http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html
 
> Thanks !

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From blong at fiction.net  Fri Aug 31 03:08:30 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:08:30 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <15247.8715.290395.28966@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829151706.A27274@pulp> <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829213051.A27754@pulp> <20010830173135.A30182@pulp> <15247.8715.290395.28966@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010831000830.A31220@pulp>

On 08/31/01 Skip Montanaro uttered the following other thing:
> 
>     Brandon> Ok, here's the revelation:
>     Brandon> (<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>, <exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x818a04c>, <traceback object at 0x8189b38> )
>     Brandon> AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80c807c>
>     Brandon> exceptions.AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>
> 
>     Brandon> Ie, exceptions.AttributeError and AttributeError don't match.
> 
>     Brandon> All that has to happen to cause this is to import the
>     Brandon> exceptions module.
> 
> Hmmm...  Works for me in 2.1.1:
> 
>     % python
>     Python 2.1.1 (#11, Aug 30 2001, 10:35:23) 
>     [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Linux-Mandrake 8.0 2.96-0.48mdk)] on linux2
>     Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>     >>> import exceptions
>     >>> exceptions.AttributeError 
>     <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80f217c>
>     >>> AttributeError 
>     <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80f217c>
> 
> I checked the 2.1.1 code.  It doesn't have a call to
> _PyImport_FixupExtension after the init_exceptions call.

You miss understand.  You have to do this in the context of the embedded
environment, ie where it creates an interpreter state than destroys it
before creating another one (ie, like PyApache does it)

Brandon
-- 
 " ... it's [Titanic] got the highest body-count of any other love 
       story I'm aware of ..." -- Newob Det, ASC
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Fri Aug 17 04:08:00 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:08:00 +1000
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
In-Reply-To: <20010817005732.A12915@caltech.edu>
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <01081717334601.02447@ike> <20010817005732.A12915@caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <01081718080002.02447@ike>

On Friday 17 August 2001 17:57, Titus Brown wrote:
> PS Interesting, it looks like '+=' does some behind-the-scenes skullduggery
> when applied to strings... since 's = t = "a"; t += "b"; print s' doesn't
> do what I would have thought, given that += is supposed to "modify in
> place", I thought.

That behaviour is precisely why += etc didn't make it into the language for 
so long. No-one could agree on what the behaviour should be. Certainly, 
immutable strings should never be modified in place or python would fall 
about laughing.


    Richard



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Thu Aug 16 07:59:02 2001
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:59:02 -0400
Subject: Two PythonWin problems
Message-ID: <3B7BB586.35E802E9@sympatico.ca>

ActivePython 2.1.212  MS Windows 95 4.00.950 C

1.  Under: View => Options => Tool Menu => New

    Any attempt to enter a Python command gives:
        win32ui: Error in Command Message handler for command ID 15009, Code
768

2. The Help index is displayed, but not the text associated with the indexed
item.  I suspect that this is a Win 95 problem.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Colin W.





From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sun Aug 26 14:10:32 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:10:32 GMT
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
References: <feSh7.174252$g_3.29600684@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <f07iot0er3flsm4nbh0gegvld4gssfuti0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sYai7.176823$g_3.30926720@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

if x is a complex number = a + bj
is there any built in finction that can return the real and imaginary values
of x?
Something like:
r = real(x) = a and
s=img(x) = b
I can not find something like that.
Maan

"David Fuess" <fuess1 at home.com> wrote in message
news:f07iot0er3flsm4nbh0gegvld4gssfuti0 at 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:35:55 GMT, "Maan Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Quite a while ago, there used to be packages on Matrix Math and Complex
> >number Math.
> >What is the status on these packages?  I can not find either.
> >For those who use Scientific packages:  which ones are recommended for
> >Matrices and Complex numbers?
> >Maan
> >
>
> For Matrix math use NumPy (look on source forge), for complex use
> cmath (part of the standard distribution).
>
> Dave




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 07:18:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:18:12 +0200
Subject: Setting file creation date
References: <e77b4645.0108100226.4cfaf671@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l0fuf1287j@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Seehusen" <fse at npt.no> wrote in message
news:e77b4645.0108100226.4cfaf671 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
> creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?
>
> This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(

os.utime lets you set the accessed and modified dates, but I
don't think NT lets you change creation-date -- you'd have to
change your computer's date, create a new file copying the
old one, etc, etc, I suspect.


Alex





From greg at electricrain.com  Mon Aug 20 20:30:14 2001
From: greg at electricrain.com (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:30:14 -0700
Subject: Python COM local server as .exe possible?
In-Reply-To: <3B7FE793.23967.42B4CEE@localhost>; from bill-bell@bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:21:39PM -0400
References: <998210937.157.99872.l10@yahoogroups.com> <3B7FE793.23967.42B4CEE@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010820173014.B8538@zot.electricrain.com>

On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 04:21:39PM -0400, Bill Bell wrote:
> 
> Can someone tell if I can expect to do this conversion with py2exe, 
> freeze or another products of this kind?

Yes.  Here are some posts (linked to related threads) on such a topic a
while back.  I am successfully using py2exe to make a local COM server
executable:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-May/046141.html




From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Mon Aug  6 00:59:22 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 14:59:22 +1000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <9kg79r029r9@enews4.newsguy.com> <1n9omt89amtbf9i07bvdasreuk5qs56v48@4ax.com> <9kkefp017c8@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <877kwhiy1h.fsf@xeno.localhost>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> the Pythonic idiom is to expose 'properties' (client-visible attributes) for
> client use with Python syntax (obj.theattr for reading, maybe also
> obj.theattr=newvalue if it's appropriate for the property to be writable),
> and, if accessor functions are needed, provide them behind the syntax
> screen (with __getattr__/__setattr__ in 2.1 and before, with dedicated
> per-attribute getters/setters in 2.2 and after). 

Yes, this is a seldom mentioned but very welcome addition to 2.2. It
wasn't hard to implement properties by hand, but having a standard way
will hopefully do away with getters and setters for good.

>  Object Pascal (at the heart of Delphi) has always worked like this
> (as, for read-access only, has Eiffel;

C# works the same way as Delphi in this respect.



From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 23 13:00:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Porably importing modules
In-Reply-To: <f0ah7.16915$5_3.1056918@news1.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108231255490.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Graham Ashton wrote:

> I'm sure there's a more idiomatic way to trap the failure to import a
> module than my attempt. Whilst making sure one of my apps runs on Windows
> as well as Unix I came up with the following code (re-typed and untested):
>
>   # catch failure to import and let it pass
>   try:
>       import syslog
>   except ImportError, e:
>       print "can't import syslog: %s" % e
>
>   # [ snip loads of stuff ]
>
>   # make sure syslog is imported before trying to use it
>   if "syslog" in dir():
>       syslog.openlog(...)
>   else:
>       print "sorry, no syslog support"
>
> Am I re-inventing a perfectly round wheel? Is there a cleaner way?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Graham

Try this:

def dummyzero():
  pass

def dummyone(x):
  pass

log=None
closelog=None

 ...
try:
  import syslog
  log=syslog.syslog
  closelog=syslog.close
  syslog.open(...)
except ImportError, e:
  print "can't import syslog: %s" % e
  log=dummyone
  closelog=dummyzero
 ...
log("Whoops! THAT wasn't supposed to happen...")
 ...
closelog()


-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 17 02:52:37 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 23:52:37 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xpu9v9o0a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I haven't used any Python IDE's but have used plenty of C IDE's.  They
are basically all the same as Emacs GDB mode with a bunch of extra GUI
chrome.  I don't find the chrome helps me that much, so I prefer to
just use Emacs.


From support at internetdiscovery.com  Thu Aug  9 05:45:28 2001
From: support at internetdiscovery.com (Mike Clarkson)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 09:45:28 GMT
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <3b6d3e72$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <3b725bb5.10702165@nntp.ix.netcom.com>

On 5 Aug 2001 13:39:14 +0100, Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net> wrote:

>From SlashDot: http://www.a-i.com/challenge/. A contest for developing 
>game-playing bots. I really want to write intelligent agents in Python, and 
>this sounds like an interesting exercise.

I think this would be  very interesting exercise. Given the short
timeline, a good starting point might be to use an imbedded version of
CLIPS (http://www.ghg.net/clips/CLIPS.html). It's small, fast,
portable, extremely well documented and PD.

"Alexander V. Voinov" <avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru> has a tar of a SWIG
wrapped Clips (Fuzzy Clips 6.04) for Python 1.5 on starship:
ftp://starship.python.net/pub/crew/avv/clips-wrapper.tgz based on work
done by Vladimir Ulogov <gandalf at python.eu.org> Perhaps this could be
brought up to date for Python 2.1. (I have the SWIG interface files,
which are missing from the tgz file.)

>IMHO the extreme flexibility of data structures and procedures makes Python 
>a superb language for AI (whatever that is)

I agree. If Python as a language works as CP4E, then it should be able
to encompass AI. What would be really COOL (pun intended) is if the
CLIPS object system was compatible with Python's - then the COOL
classes in CLIPS could be replaced with Python's, allowing for a
seamless integration with CLIPS. Then maybe we could look for a
"Pythonic" syntax for stating rules.

Mike.


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Aug  2 21:21:26 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <01080310504005.14602@ike>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022117410.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Richard Jones wrote:

> Hey, this is a fun conversation I'm having with myself here :)

I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I haven't been able to get a word in, myself!

> >>> import imp, sys
> >>> imp.load_module('instance', None, '/tmp/roundup', ('', '', 5))
> <module 'instance' from '/tmp/roundup/__init__.pyc'>
> >>> sys.modules['roundup']
> <module 'roundup' from 'roundup/__init__.pyc'>

There's also:

     imp.load_package( name, path ) 

( which doesn't appear to be in the documentation. ) 


You might also want to add: 

	sys.modules['instance'] = instance 


But I'm not quite sure what you're doing, so maybe not. 

What is 'roundup' ? 

-- Steve Majewski






From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 31 16:34:58 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:34:58 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
In-Reply-To: <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0109010031300.3175-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

>This site about tkinter really sucks!
>http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-tkinter.htm
>look what they say:
># File: hello1.py
>
>from Tkinter import *
>>>>>>> error!!!!!!!!! this filke does not exists it has to be _tkinter

Do you have Tkinter installed? No?
Why not make sure you have software installed first.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 31, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "CURSOR: What you become when your system crashes." _/




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug 26 19:06:29 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:06:29 +1000
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242338590.28845-100000@phd.fep.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242338590.28845-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <01082709062910.28818@ike>

On Saturday 25 August 2001 05:40, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, John Goerzen wrote:
> > The problem, though, is that it's not all that easy to do HTML in
> > Python, especially for non-programmers.  One neat approach is Enhydra,
> > a Java system, which uses id attributes in HTML tags and then lets the
> > Java code modify those tags.  Completely separates presentation from
> > implementation.
>
>    Your dreams come true! Zope Page Templates, especially its :replace.

ZPT rules. It will take over the world :)

Just remove the 'Z' from the name and you're portable between python web 
application servers :)


   Richard



From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Wed Aug  8 01:24:42 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 22:24:42 -0700
Subject: Manually printing traceback?
References: <slrn9n18po.19r.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108072124.782d0cdf@posting.google.com>

sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) wrote in message news:<slrn9n18po.19r.sill at sill.silmarill.org>...
> Hello,
> 
> If I run this code: l = []; print l[1], I get a traceback.
> If I change it to:
> 
> import sys
> l = []
> try: print l[1]
> except:
>     print sys.exc_info()
> 
> I get a tuple, 3rd element of which is the traceback object. How do i print
> it? I tried doing print sys.exc_info()[2]() but that doesn't work. I also
> read libref and langref and i couldn't find anything enlightening on this.
> I found a post where paul prescott asks a similar question and gvr tells him
> that you basically have to read code for some debugger, or something of this
> sort.. that's over my head, i'm afraid.
> 
> The reason i ask is that my program (cymbaline) doesn't print out exceptions
> that it raises. I have no idea why.. I don't have any big chunks in try:
> except: catch-all blocks.. So, alternatively, if i knew what else could be
> causing this, i wouldn't need the answer the my first question. I just need
> the answer to either one :P

There is the traceback module.

  try:
    ...
  except:
    traceback.print_exc()

If you want a function to deal with the traceback object directly so as to
format the traceback in a string and use it in some other way, ie., log it,
you can use:

def exceptionDetails(skip=0):
  info = sys.exc_info()
  exc_type = info[0]
  exc_value = info[1]
  exc_traceback = info[2]
  trace = traceback.extract_tb(exc_traceback)
  trace = trace[skip:]
  error = "Python Exception\n"
  try:
    where = "Module: " + str(callback.im_class.__module__) + "\n"
    where = where + "Method: " + str(callback.im_class.__name__)
    where = where + "." + str(callback.__name__) + "\n"
  except:
    try:
      where = "Function: " + str(callback.__name__) + "\n"
    except:
      where = ""
  error = error + where
  error = error + "Traceback (innermost last):\n"
  for filename,lineno,function,message in trace:
    error = error + "  File \"" + filename +  "\""
    error = error + ", line " + str(lineno)
    error = error + ", in " + function + "\n"
    if message:
      error = error + "    " + message + "\n"
  error = error + str(exc_type) + ": " + str(exc_value)
  return error

BTW, be careful about accessing traceback objects directly in except clause
of member function of object as you can end up with circular references
meaning that object instance will not be destroyed. Some note in tex files
of Python distribution about this, but haven't seen it documented in any
printed books. Easiest thing to do is to access it from a separate global
scope function as above.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug  7 14:36:10 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:36:10 +0100
Subject: Tkinter, Images on buttons question???
References: <9kp9jg$kek$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <GXXQiJAaUDc7EwFE@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <9kp9jg$kek$1 at plutonium.btinternet.com>, G. Willoughby <thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com> writes
>Hi,
>    I was wondering has anybody had any experience putting an image onto a
>Tkinter button. the manual says:
>
>[snip]
>image=<image>    The image to display in the widget. If specified, this
>takes precedence over the text and bitmap options.
>[snip]
>
>is this a string? or some other format i'm missing. i try this:
>
>Button(frame, image="D:\\Backup\\Python
>Programs\\Shrubbery\\images\\Image.gif")
>
>but it complains the image can not be found, any ideas???
>
>G. Willoughby
>
>
well I have put images on labels. The images were gifs in memory so I had to use a complicated way to get
the image into tkinter, but I think in general you need to create the image first and then use it.



im = Tkinter.PhotoImage(
                        data=base64.encodestring(imageData),
                        width=w,
                        height=h,
                        format='gif')

label = Tkinter.Label(frame, width=w, height=h, image=im)

I think your case would be covered by something like
im = Tkinter.PhotoImage(
                        file="D:\\Backup\\Python\\Programs\\Shrubbery\\images\\Image.gif",
                        format='gif')

label = Tkinter.Label(frame, image=im)

-- 
Robin Becker


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 10:21:48 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:21:48 -0400
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <DLNi7.55515$54.3062561@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Will Ware" <wware at alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:3B8B0698.5070703 at alum.mit.edu...
> I'm tinkering with my email and usenet service, for which this is
> a test. ObPython follows.
>
[ ... ObPython omitted ...]

You might also want to consider omitting S and 5 in your rich-character-set
leg.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 11:19:02 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:19:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271854220.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271111390.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Roman Suzi wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am trying to compile Python 2.1.1 on my Linux RedHat 6.2
> system and am getting
>
> # rpm -bb python-2.1.spec
> error: failed build dependencies:
>         expat-devel >= 1.1-3tummy is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
>         db1-devel   is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
>
> While I have even two versions of expat:
>
> # rpm -qa | grep expat
> expat-1.1-1
> expat-1.1-3tummy
>
> The question is, where can I find appropriate expat-devel
> rpm? (expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm doesn't produce one, as
> expected, and rpmfind warns that expat tummy RPMs "doesnt export
> valid resources list")
>
> Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi

1.1? Ouch.

  ftp://ftp.rpmfind.net/linux/sourceforge/expat/expat-1.95.2-1.src.rpm

db1 may be trickier. IIRC, there's some sort of conflict with 6.2 and the db1
packages from 7.x. Nonetheless:

  ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.1/en/os/i386/SRPMS/db1-1.85-5.src.rpm

Knock yourself out.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From bh at intevation.de  Mon Aug  6 06:33:10 2001
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 12:33:10 +0200
Subject: Using import in an exec'ed string
References: <9kiqt1$5v3$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <Xns90F44EA8AC6DDgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154> <3b6e4cfc$0$2980$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <6q4rrlsck9.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

Boudewijn Rempt <boudewijn at tryllian.com> writes:

> Gordon McMillan wrote:
> 
> > Nothing to do with import. This fails too:
> > 
> > a = """
> > x = 3
> > def f():
> >   print x
> > f()
> > """
> > exec(a, {}, {})
> > 
> > But, this works:
> > d = {}
> > exec(a, d, d)
> > 
> 
> I've now determined that the breaking factor is the passing of 
> a locals variable. I don't know why - wish I would, because I
> want to explain the behaviour in a chapter on implementing macro
> extensions for Python applications. (There is an ominous sentence on
> messing with locals in the language reference, though).

The reason it fails is that if you provide a locals dict all name
bindings on the outermost level will be put into the locals dict, but
not into the globals dict. The function f has its own locals of course
and can't access the names in the exec's locals. This is similar to the
situation of nested functioins where the inner function can't access the
local names of the surrounding functions.

Playing around with this a bit, I found that this happens even with
nested scopes:

Python 2.2a1 (#1, Jul 19 2001, 19:38:55) 
[GCC 2.95.2 20000220 (Debian GNU/Linux)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> g = {}
>>> l = {}
>>> s = """
... import string
... def f():
... 	string.split("a b")
... f()
... """
>>> exec s in g, l  
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<string>", line 5, in ?
  File "<string>", line 4, in f
NameError: global name 'string' is not defined
>>> 

It seems to me that with nested scopes f should be able to access the
surrounding scope's names.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From printers at sendme.cz  Mon Aug 13 16:42:36 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (Lad)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:42:36 -0700
Subject: Threads
Message-ID: <e34de21e.0108131242.55a471be@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am a newbie with Python.I want to use threads in my application.
Can you please let me know what is the best way of programming threads
under Win32 systems?
What modules shall I use?
Is it better to use the thread module or the threading module or the
stackless Python? What are differences?
Can you please give any example?

Thanks for help.
Ladislav


From orrego at mail2000.com.tw  Thu Aug  2 22:59:06 2001
From: orrego at mail2000.com.tw (rainlet)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 19:59:06 -0700
Subject: Question about nested lists!
Message-ID: <f37349a7.0108021859.4f620ec2@posting.google.com>

I use a nested list to make a 2-d array. The code follows:

    floor_member = [ 0 ]
                                                                                
    for x in range ( 9 ) :
        floor_member.append ( 0 )
                                                                                
    floor = [ floor_member ]
                                                                                
    for y in range ( 9 ) :
        floor.append ( floor_member )
                                                                                
    floor [ 5 ] [ 5 ] = 1
                                                                                
    for n in range ( 10 ) :
        print floor [ n ]
#code end

I only assign floor [ 5 ] [ 5 ] = 1, but the result is :

[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]


Is this a bug? Please help me debug. I can't see anything wrong!
Thank you!


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 20 22:04:58 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:04:58 -0400
Subject: xmlrpclib
In-Reply-To: <3B81A92C.3B473635@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPNLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Prescod]
> Should xmlrpclib's exceptions inherit from Exception?

Yes, and it appears sufficent to base just xmlrpclib.Error on Exception.




From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Aug  1 03:58:04 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:58:04 +0200
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996609912.28137.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B67B68C.1D2987AA@stroeder.com>

Sam Penrose wrote:
> 
> Guido writes:
> 
> > We have a broken hard drive on the machine that is www.python.org.
> > CNRI claims there is no spare drive.  It may be a while before we
> > resolve this.
> 
> Does www.python.org need funds for a drive or a new server? I'd be happy
> to contribute funds if it would help and someone will volunteer to
> collect the checks.

Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to migrate www.python.org
away from CNRI to overcome some org. restrictions?

Ciao, Michael.


From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Aug  2 21:51:24 2001
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 11:51:24 +1000
Subject: Sybase module 0.31 released
Message-ID: <m3bslxvrkz.fsf@vole.object-craft.com.au>

What is it:

The Sybase module provides a Python interface to the Sybase relational
database system.  It supports all of the Python Database API, version
2.0 with extensions.

Commercial support is available for this module.  Please refer to our
website for details:

	http://www.object-craft.com.au/support.html

For those people who do not have LaTeX installed there is a PDF
document.  These is also a PostScript document which prints out a
handy A5 booklet on an A4 duplex printer.

The module and documentation are all available on here:

	http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/


Thanks
------

Timothy Docker reported and fixed two bugs one of which was quite
nasty.

Derek Harland supplied a patch to allow mxDateTime.DateTime objects to
be supplied as parameters to cursor.execute().


Changes for this release
------------------------

1) The Connection.execute() method was incorrectly returning DATETIME
   column values.  This was due to a bug in the internal DataBuf
   implementation which always returned the DATETIME value at index 0
   in the buffer regardless of the fact that the buffer contained 16
   column values.

   Note that the Cursor.execute() method was not affected since it
   only allocates buffers for one row.

   Thanks to Timothy Docker for fixing this.

2) The internal Sybase.py context initialisation was being performed
   before the DB-API exceptions were defined.  If the initialisation
   failed the module tried to raise an exception which had not been
   defined.  Ooops.

   Thanks to Timothy Docker for fixing this.

3) The internal DateTime object no longer allows you to modify the
   cracked datetime attributes.  Previously you may have been fooled
   into thinking that modifying these attributes would change the
   internal value...

   Thanks to Derek Harland for pointing this out.

4) You can now pass an mxDateTime.DateTime object as a parameter to
   Cursor.execute().

   Thanks to Derek Harland for implementing this feature.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 15:44:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:44:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <gX3ZihAn4Tj7Ew4c@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291543360.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> In article <mailman.999102946.7659.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio
> Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes
> >SO...
> >
> >I propose that we make the following changes to how Windows C extensions are
> >built:
> >
> >1) make some sort of 'thunking.h' or whatnot that contains global function
> >     pointers for 'PyMem_Malloc', 'PyMem_Free', etc., and
> >2) make a pythonDLLX.Y.lib that contains a DllMain() that thunks the functions
> >     from the application (which has previously linked python.X.Y.lib) and
> >     sets the global variables in thunking.h.
> >
> >That way the behaviour of the Windows C extensions matches that of the Unix C
> >extensions and pythonXY.dll can be done away with.
>
> now that is really baaad :)

In what way? It will require more memory and startup will take a little
longer, but those are the costs.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug 22 18:37:08 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:37:08 -0700
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <9m1c6k$iu$1@panix2.panix.com>

[posted & e-mailed; please send responses to the newsgroup]

In article <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1 at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>,
Dietmar Lang  <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote:
>
>I am currently working on an application that works with a simple, but
>relatively large data structure: a large list, with its items being
>strings, 3-4 lines long each.
>
>Now the list is shelved and I am accessing its items pretty randomly.
>I've found the access times to be rather slow. So my questions are:

Use a database.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Fri Aug 31 15:02:54 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:02:54 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: COM/CORBA/DCOP (was: Hello people. I have some questions)
In-Reply-To: <7xbskwnnki.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311252220.4553-100000@bms>

On 31 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> > The doubts come mainly from Python considerations - it's very easy
> > to drive/automate Microsoft Office via Python, but I still haven't
> > managed to do the same for StarOffice; if it does have COM at all,
> > it's a strange object model, and I can't find good docs, examples,
> > etc.  Admittedly I haven't looked very deeply.  But maybe they're
> > not COM- centric *because* they're portable... it's easier for MS
> > (they do have COM on the Mac too, although I think it's not
> > available to 3rd parties).
>
> There's a faction (Gnome) trying to automate GNU/Linux desktop apps
> with CORBA, which is like COM only fancier.  I don't know of any
> attempts yet to gnomify Star Office though.

Another faction (KDE) has DCOP.  They started out using CORBA, iirc,
but then went their own way.  Is DCOP even fancier than CORBA, or
are they just being different?.  Is it possible to get COM, CORBA, and
DCOP to talk to each other?

I'm hoping Alex M. gets his Linux systems setup soon and starts
delving into the matter.


- Bruce




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 04:39:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:39:03 +0200
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
References: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <9ldcet01ki2@enews3.newsguy.com>

"S11001001" <ruNsOhSiPnAgM at earthling.net> wrote in message
news:oche7.404$n57.237388 at newsfeed.slurp.net...
> I am only a newbie to python, a perl refugee, in fact. I need a
DOWNLOADABLE,
> as in one tarball or something, tutorial employing DESCRIPTION. I cannot
leave

You may like http://diveintopython.org/download/diveintopython-pdf-3.5-1.zip
the current version of 'Dive into Python'.  It's very fast-paced and it does
give
the impression that the author comes from a Perl background, too.

> the internet connection running as I page through the tutorial at
python.org,
> so I can't go that route. Once I get kernel 2.2.5, I will be able to do
> Internet in Linux, so it will probably be alright. But I prefer to learn
> offline.

Why 2.2.5 when the current stable version is 2.4.8...?  Just curious!


Alex





From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Wed Aug  8 17:43:37 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 17:43:37 -0400
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to> <mailman.997303517.12342.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3d1ymm448m.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> writes:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:12:22PM +0300, Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> > How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
> > I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
> > examples
> 
> I'm aware of any Python module that deals with PDF.  Your best bet may
> be Python script to generate LaTeX file.

Reportlab is a set of Python modules for generating PDF files, but
unfortunately the documentation is sparse and there are few large
examples of code using Reportlab.  The original questioner would be
better off asking for help on the Reportlab mailing list than on the
main Python list.

--amk


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Wed Aug  8 17:34:57 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 21:34:57 GMT
Subject: PyQt for Windows Status
References: <mailman.997094949.3162.python-list@python.org> <4a249347.0108060441.18511a14@posting.google.com> <20010809.011340.480298490.2461@se7en.org>
Message-ID: <9ksba1$sl8$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Mark Derricutt <mark at se7en.org> wrote:
> In article <4a249347.0108060441.18511a14 at posting.google.com>, "Robert"
> <bobh at hslda.org> wrote:

>> I wanted to start using it on Windows prior to the PyQT book coming out
>> so I would be familiar it a little bit.

> PyQT Book? Where where???

http://www.opendocs.org. This is my rough (and I mean that) draft. I'm
working as hard as I can to the complete draft this month, but it seems
that Phil is making good progress on PyQt for Qt 3.0, so I'll have to
work that in as well (and it needs editing). Now's the time to tell met
what's wrong, what's missing and what's not clear!

There's a nice review on www.oreillynet.com - in the Python section.
-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From wware at world.std.com  Thu Aug 23 10:12:06 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:12:06 GMT
Subject: Python enums revisited
References: <GII4wC.D5z@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <GIIy46.vK@world.std.com>

Slightly improved version, verifies that enum values are
all unique.
====================================================
""" I once tried to give Python something like C's enums, as
described here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=G6qzLy.6Fo at world.std.com
That approach had the flaw of trying to assign to a dictionary
returned by the locals() function, intending that such assignments
would become class attributes, but that isn't guaranteed to work
as versions of Python change.
"""

import types, string, pprint, exceptions

class EnumException(exceptions.Exception):
    pass

def attachEnums(clas, enumList):
    i = 0
    uniqueValues = [ ]
    for x in enumList:
        if type(x) == types.TupleType:
            x, i = x
        if type(x) != types.StringType:
            raise EnumException, \
                  "enum name is not a string: " + x
        if type(i) != types.IntType:
            raise EnumException, \
                  "enum value is not an integer: " + i
        if i in uniqueValues:
            raise EnumException, \
                  "enum value is not unique for " + x
        uniqueValues.append(i)
        setattr(clas, x, i)
        try: clas.enumNames[i] = x
        except AttributeError: clas.enumNames = {i: x}
        i = i + 1

class MidiEvent:
    """MidiEvent is a class"""
    def __repr__(self):
        # It's handy to be able to reverse-lookup the names of the
        # enum values. C doesn't offer this feature.
        return ("<MidiEvent %s>" %
                (self.enumNames[self.type]))


attachEnums(MidiEvent,
            ["NOTE_ON",
             "NOTE_OFF",
             "ANOTHER_MIDI_EVENT",
             "SOME_OTHER_MIDI_EVENT",
             ("CONTROLLER_CHANGE", 500),
             ("POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", 500),
             # many many more...
             ])

for x in string.split(
"""
m = MidiEvent()   # MidiEvent is a class, m is an instance
m.type = MidiEvent.POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE
print m

# Notice that m's attributes include neither the enums themselves nor
# the enumNames dictionary. These are CLASS attributes, not INSTANCE
# attributes, and that means you can create vast numbers of MidiEvent
# instances with reckless abandon, never worrying that namespaces and
# memory will become cluttered with redundant copies of your enums.
pprint.pprint(MidiEvent.__dict__)
print m.__dict__
""", "\n"):
    if x and x[:1] != '#':
        print ">>>", x
        exec x
    else:
        print x

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 28 03:13:51 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:13:51 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: BUG? Re: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <15242.31823.671530.372011@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108280947530.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Roman> How people compile Python 2.1.1 from src.rpm on not-so-ancient
>     Roman> RedHat 6.2 (without tricks)???
> 
> Checked into CVS is a slight modification of setup.py that may help you
> compile on a system with potentially multiple versions of libdb.  Attached
> is a context diff.  Feedback on whether or not this helps people would be
> appreciated.

OK... Using Distutils for Python 1.5.2 for building Python 2.1.1 
is impossible, because there are things missing and all kinds
of new syntax features (list comprehensions, +=, **args-call syntax).

How people are supposed to build and install Python 2.1.1
on RedHat 6x systems _right way_?

Well, lets do it ./configure; make:

  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/command/build.py", line
106, in run
    self.run_command(cmd_name)
  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/cmd.py", line 328, in
run_command
    self.distribution.run_command(command)
  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 919, in
run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/command/build_ext.py",
line 231, in run
    customize_compiler(self.compiler)
  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/sysconfig.py", line 121,
in customize_compiler
    (cc, opt, ccshared, ldshared, so_ext) = \
  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/sysconfig.py", line 370,
in get_config_vars
    func()
  File "/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/Lib/distutils/sysconfig.py", line 302,
in _init_posix
    raise DistutilsPlatformError, my_msg
distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python
installation: unable to
open /usr/local/lib/python2.1/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)
make: *** [sharedmods] Error 1

Now, it seems I need to remove Distutils and trying again.

make worked, but then:

$ ./python setup.py bdist_rpm
running bdist_rpm
writing 'build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SPECS/Python standard library.spec'
running sdist
warning: sdist: missing required meta-data: url
warning: sdist: missing meta-data: either (author and author_email) or
(maintainer and maintainer_email) must be supplied
reading manifest file 'MANIFEST'
creating Python standard library-2.1
making hard links in Python standard library-2.1...
hard linking README -> Python standard library-2.1
hard linking setup.py -> Python standard library-2.1
warning: sdist: 'structmodule.c' not a regular file -- skipping
tar -cf dist/Python standard library-2.1.tar Python standard library-2.1
gzip -f9 dist/Python standard library-2.1.tar
removing 'Python standard library-2.1' (and everything under it)
copying dist/Python standard library-2.1.tar.gz ->
build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SOURCES
building RPMs
rpm -ba --define _topdir
/home/blduser/src/Python-2.1.1/build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm --clean
build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SPECS/Python standard library.spec
line 6: Tag takes single token only: Name: Python standard library
error: command 'rpm' failed with exit status 1

$ rpm -q rpm
rpm-3.0.5-9.6x

So, I am unable to build rpm by bdist_rpm.

Also, I can't install by setup.py. Well, I can do:

./python setup.py install

but this again doesn't copy python executable...

And names of tar.gz's are strange:

dist$ ls
Python standard library-2.1.linux-i686.tar.gz
Python standard library-2.1.tar.gz

I think, this is a BUG is setup.py, no less!

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 







From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Aug 25 05:25:09 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:25:09 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
In-Reply-To: <3B870B36.4071C1CC@psychosis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251322440.32632-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Dave Cinege wrote:
> keywords: modify argv change process listing argv[0] ps output
> This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().

   There is no sense to do it on Mac, or Windows. Such manipulation is only
meaningful on UNIX systems, hence your ptch should go into posix module,
not sys.

   Second, it is too linux-oriented. Other UNIX systems use different ways
to change ps output. Sendmail sources is the best place to look at, and
there is different code in PostgreSQL.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 06:39:27 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:39:27 -0500
Subject: Python VM specs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108221106310.713-100000@elara.perceval.be>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108221106310.713-100000@elara.perceval.be>
Message-ID: <15235.35807.515989.368857@beluga.mojam.com>

    Xavier> Is there any paper describing the instruction set of the Python
    Xavier> Virtual Machine or should I learn anything from Python/ceval2.c?

I think right now Python/ceval.c is your only choice.  I recently began
working on something, but really have nothing more than a crude outline.  If
you start looking at ceval.c and get stuck, drop me a note.  I'd be happy to
try and explain things.  It might motivate me to work on pyvm.tex a bit more
as well.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 17:51:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:51:52 +0200
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Cris A. Fugate" <fugate at lucent.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000 at IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com...
> Can't find a convenient way to check for the end of an input file.
> I would like to say something like this where fh.eof would return
> a boolean value for the eof condition. How is this done, or is
> there another way? TIA
>
> fh = open("file", "r")
> while (not fh.eof):
>    fh.readline()

There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):

    for line in fh.xreadlines():
        process(line)


Alex





From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug  6 17:47:49 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 21:47:49 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 06 Aug 2001 14:27:29 -0400, Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
wrote:
>>    There should be on--and preferably only one--obvious way to do things.
>> 
>
>Hmm.  I think I disagree.  If we had i++ (only the postfix version),
>then the obvious way to do:
>
>   i+=1
>   func(i)
>
>would become
>
>   func(i++)

That wouldn't be obvious to a C, Java, or Perl programmer.  I think they would
be surprised if `func(i++)' were not equivalent to `func(i); i+=1'.

>I had always thought the reason for not having i++ was because, in
>general, each line of Python code can have at most one lvalue.
>
>To state that another way, if something modifies a value it does not
>generally also return a value.  This is evidenced by the following not
>returning values:

Yeah, that's a generally good practice in most imperative languages.  It's
good to keep mutating procedures and non-mutating functions clear in your
mind.  Eiffel calls this "call query seperation".

>In fact the only exceptions I can think of to this rule (in the core
>language) are as follows
>
>dict.popitem()
>dict.setdefault(key, value)
>list.pop(index)
>several 'file' methods

Eiffel goes even further with this, for example:

fp.read_line
s := fp.last_string

I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety or not.

>two operations separately.  I don't feel than i++ over i+=1 offers
>this sort of significant benefit, so I would lobby against it being
>added.

Agreed.  Even without the post/pre confusion, it offers too litle
bang-for-buck.


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 09:00:30 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:00:30 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>              <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3B6AA06E.464B97FD@ActiveState.com>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> How about
> 
>    x in class c
> 
> for isinstance, and
> 
>    class c1 in class c2
> 
> for issubclass?

I think that's very easy to read. And it solves the problem I'm not
supposed to mention:

try:
  foo()
except x in class ZeroDivisionError:
  bar()

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From uselesspython at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 11:59:24 2001
From: uselesspython at yahoo.com (Rob)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:59:24 -0500
Subject: [Tutor] Is Python powerful enough for this?
References: <3B8E4794.9988.1181E6F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3B8E62DC.4090305@yahoo.com>

A wrote:

> Hi,
> I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input 
> fields and also some hidden fields. 
> How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
> like
> Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3
> 
> For example:
> I have a following web page
> <html>
> 
> <head>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form method="POST" action="c.cgi">
>   <p><input type="text" name="T1" size="20"></p>
>   <p><input type="checkbox" name="C1" value="ON"></p>
>   <p><textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="20"></textarea></p>
>   <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" name="B1"><input 
> type="reset" value="Reset" name="B2"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
>>From the above 
> I would like to receive 
> T1=&S1=&C1=&B1=Submit
> 
> 
> Thank you for help.
> Ladislav
> 


I've got an example of one way to do this sort of thing here:

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/uselesspython1.html

It's the bottom entry on the page, labeled: "Useless Comment System". It 
consists of a working example, and you can view all the Python and HTML.

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python




From piercew at hushmail.com  Fri Aug 17 08:35:10 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 05:35:10 -0700
Subject: sPickle?
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108170435.397faa9f@posting.google.com>

I saw an old message from around '98 about sPickle; a secure way of
transparently using pickle to encrypt data as it is written to disk. 
Does anyone know where this is available from if it is still
maintained?

I searched python.org and Google but neither turned up anything.

Thanks,

Wayne


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug 30 06:30:45 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 10:30:45 GMT
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
References: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com> <3B8D5DA7.6D977284@ccvcorp.com> <3B8D7378.A8E35CCB@home.net> <9mkt6e01d0u@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9os5el.7j8.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:23:41 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:

>> >(just as there are some binary fp numbers that aren't
>> >decimal-representable).
>>
>> Actually, I don't think that is true, as I learned on this list. I think
> 
> Right, and that's easy to prove -- that's because 2 is a
> factor of 10, of course.

More generally: every prime factor of 2 is also a factor of 10.
E.g. all numbers representible in hexadecimal fractions are
representible in decimals as well.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  8 10:43:58 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:43:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com> <mailman.996787686.29273.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F554E3E4346michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3b6ea347.838398@nntp.sprynet.com> <Xns90F763B569000michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3b71404b.1075769@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F7A059DF603michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) wrote in
news:3b71404b.1075769 at nntp.sprynet.com: 

> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:46:17 +0000 (UTC), Michael Abbott
> <michael at rcp.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>No, no, it's not impossible at all.  You simply use one representative
>>at a time to represent a value, but use the relation when you need to
>>decide whether or not two values are equal. 
> 
> Of course. I _said_ that. You _quote_ part of where I said that
> below.
>>
>>> Here there _is_ a natural choice of one polynomial to use
>>> from each equivalence class, but if you use that one your complex
>>> numbers have become precisely pairs of reals. 
>>

Well, but it's not quite the same thing.  I was saying that *in general* 
you can represent equivalence classes by members, even if you can't choose 
a canonical representative of each class.  Of course, when you *can* chose 
such a representative then things are much easier!

(I'm studying rewriting at the moment, and this business of finding 
canonical representatives, "normal forms", is rather central!)

> 
> (Doesn't matter, though - we have a special diss-pensation for
> off-topic posts. Um, <wink>...)

;)  Yes, I think we've drifted away from Python (and complex numbers) 
somewhat.  Never mind, it's quite entertaining over here anyhow. ;/



From jcosby at mindspring.com  Thu Aug  2 09:26:31 2001
From: jcosby at mindspring.com (Cosby Jon)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:26:31 -0700
Subject: PySol
Message-ID: <9kbkea$3h0$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Where is Markus Oberhumer these days? He no longer appears to have a Web
site at the University of Linz. I'd like to link to his PySol home page, but
I can't find it on Google or Alta Vista.

Jon Cosby




From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 24 03:37:55 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:37:55 GMT
Subject: portability
Message-ID: <nvnh7.13369$6x5.3591946@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

i'd like to distribute a python application with a Qt-interface (using 
PyQt-bindings) (developed on a linux machine)
can this application used as is on both windows and linux??

tx



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 21 04:46:24 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 01:46:24 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7x66bhby1r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
> From reading links from this stuff, I get the impression that to get 
> an S/MIME public/private keypair, you have to buy one from a 
> Certification Authority (who also certify your identity, presumably).
> Is this correct? Or can I just create my own keys like I can with GnuPG
> or PGP?

You always generate your own keys.  The Certification Authority
verifies your identity and signs your public key.  It's sort of like
PGP key signatures, except programs like browsers etc. are
preconfigured to trust a certain collection of CA's, and normally if
you publish a key to the outside world (an SSL web site certificate is
the most common example) you get it signed by one of those
preconfigured CA's (who run a tidy scam charging you for the
certificates).  

Note that nothing requires you to use a commercial CA--you can always
sign your own keys and convince your friends to configure their
browsers to trust your key signatures, just like PGP.  (I'm mixing PGP
and X509 terminology here).  The idea of CA's is that when a complete
stranger visits your online shoe store's SSL web site, his/her browser
will still see a trusted signature and proceed without throwing a
warning dialog.


From scott at schram.net  Tue Aug  7 07:08:52 2001
From: scott at schram.net (Scott Schram)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 06:08:52 -0500
Subject: Red Hat Roswell Beta
In-Reply-To: <E15U49a-0002IB-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010807060327.010a82e0@pop.mindspring.com>

The Red Hat Roswell beta includes Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1.1

A copy of the announcement with pointers to disk images is at

http://hedera.linuxnews.pl/_news/2001/08/03/_long/600.html





------------------------
http://schram.net




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Aug 20 18:28:03 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:28:03 GMT
Subject: Python under Windows:  free cl.exe?
References: <13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <T9gg7.137082$Xr6.749458@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

J.Jacob:

> Where can we download the (free commandline version) microsoft C++ 6.0
> compiler cl.exe and nmake.exe?  We need it if we want to do
> extending/embedding C(++) and many 3rd party Python packages want you to
use
> cl.exe and nmake.exe

   I'm not sure if the tools you get with the .NET Beta SDK are sufficient
for building Python as I think it uses Visual C++ projects rather than
makefiles and so may need Visual Studio to build them. The SDK includes
Microsoft C/C++ 13.0 rather than C/C++ 12.0 which came with Visual C++ 6.0.

   The .NET Beta 2 SDK is available from (you will need to munge this URL
back into a single string):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?url=/downloads/sample.asp?ur
l=/msdn-files/027/000/976/msdncompositedoc.xml&frame=true

   Buying one of the magazines that feature the .NET Beta SDK as cover discs
(such as a recent (August?) MSDN magazine) is a much better idea as it saves
a lot of download time and also gets you a beta of Visual Studio .NET. Dunno
if VS.NET is capable of building Python.

   Neil




From guido at python.org  Wed Aug 22 04:51:04 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:51:04 GMT
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
References: <D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3b7ee623$0$318$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>
Message-ID: <cppu9ocweq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Volucris" <volucris at hotmail.com> writes:

> ActivePython is based on Python, so everything in the standard Python distro
> (AFAIK) is in ActivePython. But also, including Pythonwin, COM stuff, the
> docs in Windows help format, and other stuff that I can't remember.

Actually, ActivePython is an extended subset of the standard
distribution -- it doesn't include IDLE and the Tcl/Tk libraries
necessary for Tkinter support.  IDLE is a pretty good alternative to
Pythonwin.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From Jason.Jurkowski at usa.xerox.com  Tue Aug 21 09:32:03 2001
From: Jason.Jurkowski at usa.xerox.com (Jason Jurkowski)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:32:03 -0400
Subject: error when importing python extension
Message-ID: <3B8262D3.1090804@usa.xerox.com>

Hi,
I'm using Python2.0 from BEOPEN.COM on solaris 8.  I've written an 
extension module, compilled it into a shared library and fixed a couple 
of ImportErrors.  Now when I try to import the module I get the 
fallowing error:
SystemError: _PyImport_FixupExtension: module rdcr not loaded
Has anyone ever faced this problem and solved it?  Or perhaps you know 
what the interpretor is complaining about.
Thanks,
Jason



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:33:31 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:33:31 +0200
Subject: Real.py
References: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <9m30o80263t@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Patrick" <patrick.fichou at galactica.it> wrote in message
news:9m2td3$h1k$1 at pegasus.tiscalinet.it...
> Hi,
>
> Does someone knows where is the 'real.py' module that seems very useful
and
> fast for number crunching ? The link on the Python Homepage is not valid (
> ftp://ftp.python.org/pub/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar ).

Hmmm, there definitely seems to have been some major recent
restructuring of ftp.python.org and all of its mirrors -- I
can't find real-accurate.py anywhere either.


Alex





From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Aug 24 14:40:51 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:40:51 +0200
Subject: User preference file in Win32
References: <mailman.998673757.30503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j376m9.pk2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:21:24 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sorry, this is not 100% Pythonic question, but as I'm in process to write a
>> Unix/Win32 app.
>> I need to know where it's usual to store user preference (not in a registry
>> please) files for an app for Win32 applications (98,ME,NT,2000) as in Unix,
>> we may use something like "~/.myapp.conf"

I think there is no easy way to get this right on all flavours of win32. Every
win32 implementation seems to have its own idea of how to do this. 

I can tell you how to do it on Windows 2000:

The following registry keys refer to directories where programs can store their
configuration data. You normally create a subdirectory
"{companyname}/{productname}" in this directory. I'd use the second registry
key (...\Shell Folders\AppData).

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Volatile Environment -> APPDATA
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\
    Shell Folders -> AppData
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\
    Shell Folders -> Local AppData 

This doesn't work on NT4, however. And the GUIs on top of DOS are entirely
different again.

>You have to create a private directory under 'Local Settings' under the users
>profile directory.

This would have been the Windows 2000 case.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 01:59:05 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:59:05 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
Message-ID: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I just started playing with python and haven't been able to figure
out the following things from the docs I've found:

1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
real and imaginary parts separately?  I guess I could say
   x = (a + a.conjugate())/2
   y = (a - a.conjugate())/2
but I can't take this language seriously if that's what the designers intended.

2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
   I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
     is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
     is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
     is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
     is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type

3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
   branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
   implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
   Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.



From ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 14:14:01 2001
From: ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 11:14:01 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com>

grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) wrote in message news:<dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0 at posting.google.com>...
> Go to:
> 
>   http://webware.sourceforge.net/Papers/Templates/
> 
[snip]
> What I am wanting to know is what we have learnt from all of this. If
> one were designing yet another template system, what might be the best way
> of approaching it? The idea being for it to be simple in appearance and
> use, yet be powerful enough to harness features within the back end server.

We *did* design YATL this past spring. It started with some examples
and discussion on the webware-discuss list. Cheetah emerged as our
victor for various reasons including [a] we liked the design and [b]
the author took it to maturity.

Although the docs don't reflect it yet, Cheetah will pretty much be
the recommended templating solution for Webware developers.

So no one gets confused: Cheetah is an independent project and can be
used sans Webware. Also, Webware could be used with any Pythonic
templating solution (I have even baked my own simple ones from time to
time).

Also, Zope is a web dev environment, not a templating language. More
specifically, Zope has 2 templating languages: DTML and ZPT. I'm not
sure if StructuredText counts as one because I forget if it allows for
substitution of variable names.

The approximate consensus seems to be that DTML is "old school" and
that ZPT is the new, shiny way to do templating in Zope. That brings
us to my next topic:

Outside of *SP, the 2 major templating camps that I see are "dollar
sign/pound" or $#, and *ML.

In $# you use $ for substitution, often with dotted notation such as
$employee.manager.salary, and # for directives like #if, #for, and
#set. The idea is to provide enough power for simple display logic,
but to keep your application logic outside the templates.

Packages in this camp include Cheetah, Webmacro and Velocity, the last
2 of which are for Java.

The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
substitutions. These include ZPT, Ehydra and others. There is a *ML
like kit for Webware, but I don't think any serious time was put into
it, hence it is hard to recommend (for Webware).

In any case, I prefer the $# approach because it is:
  - very easy to write
  - very easy to read
  - very easy to learn
  (hmmm, kind of like Python)
  - understandable by non-programmers (like an HTML designer)
  - uses few symbols (mostly just $ and #)
  - works with all formats (plain text, SQL, HTML, etc.)
  - language neutral on the outside

Some prefer the *ML approach because...? Maybe they like the
structured nature of mark up languages. Disclaimer: When you're not a
proponent of something, it's hard to represent that something's user
base. For example, I no longer have any idea why people use Java and
Perl. :-)

Some clickables:

Cheetah, Python-powered templates
   http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/

Webware, Python-powered web dev
   http://webware.sourceforge.net/


Hope that helps,
-Chuck


From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 23:31:45 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:31:45 -0000
Subject: Timer in Tkinter?
Message-ID: <9li371+me2i@eGroups.com>

The after method works, but it only updates once. Is there a way for 
it to keep running continously, so that the pet updates over and 
over again?

--------------

Yes, there is. Use the after method:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> def printSomething():
...   print "wibble"
... 
>>> root=Tk()
>>> root.after(2000,printSomething)
'after#2'
>>> wibble

The first argument to after is the number of milliseconds to wait and
the second argument is the function to call. For information like 
this
about Tkinter, I recommend Fredrik Lundh's excellent An Introduction
to Tkinter. It's at:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

I almost always have a local copy open when I'm doing Tkinter
programming.








From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 11:05:07 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:05:07 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <310820010749067358%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910EAE1C34A02PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

"John W. Baxter" <jwbaxter at spamcop.com> said :

>> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
> 
> Or 246.814.345  ;-).  Any others?
> I think there is room for a module which "does what Microsoft Excel
> does" based on format strings, if not a bit more.
> Is there such a module?

Turns out there is -- "locale", strangely enough :)

Will need to test how portable it is, but works fine on Windows right now.

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 12:24:53 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:24:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <mailman.997452856.7709.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.997452856.7709.python-list at python.org:

> How do you make a swap function? 
> 
The easy way:

a, b = b, a

and of course you aren't restricted to two values:

a, b, c = b, c, a

If you are *really* sure you want a function that swaps its arguments, try:

def swap(a, b): return b, a
a, b = swap(a, b)

Python isn't C. Its better.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug  4 01:18:38 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:18:38 -0400
Subject: counting occurrences
In-Reply-To: <9kf2l60uic@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGMLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Grant Griffin]
> I have long used dictionaries to counting occurrences of
> something (usually strings).  It goes something like this:
>
>     counter = {}
>     for s in strings:
>         counter[s] = counter.get(s, 0) + 1
> ...
> This then usually leads to a need to "sort keys by
> value"--something like this:
>
>    itemlist = [(value, key) for (key, value) in counter.items()]
>    itemlist.sort()
>    itemlist.reverse()
> ...
> Then, "itemlist" contains sorted (value, key) pairs--usually to
> be printed or something.
>
> For me, this sort of thing comes up so often that it qualifies as
> an "idiom".

Sure.

> However, the sorting thing is a pain ...
> so I mentioned to a friend that it would sure be nice if Python
> dictionaries had an "items_sorted_by_value" method.

Won't happen -- you can easily write a function for it yourself in Python,
and it's not going to run significantly faster if it's coded by us in C
instead.  Dicts have no internal ordering, so the best efficient thing
anyone can do here is materialize a list in full, sort it, and pull it apart
again.

Note that in Python 2.2, you can *subclass* from dicts, like here in
grantdict.py:

class Grant(dictionary):
    def items_by_value_backwards(self):
        items = [(v, k) for k, v in self.items()]
        items.sort()
        items.reverse()
        return [(k, v) for v, k in items]

g = Grant()
f = open("grantdict.py")
for line in f:
    for ch in line:
        g[ch] = g.get(ch, 0) + 1

for ch, count in g.items_by_value_backwards()[:10]:
    print "%6d %r" % (count, ch)

It counts the number of letters in itself, then prints the 10 most frequent:

    93 ' '
    20 'e'
    18 't'
    18 'r'
    18 'i'
    16 'n'
    15 's'
    15 '\n'
    12 'c'
    12 ')'

> But, among other things, my friend (who has been using Python for a
> *long* time) said that he has never wanted such a thing, because he
> doesn't see counting occurrences "as a dictionary operation".

Well, no sane person wants it built in <wink>, but of course dicts are
natural for this.

> So how do you think he does it?

Slowly and inappropriately.

> tim:-help-me-out-here<wink>-ly y'rs,

more-worried-about-your-friend-ly y'rs  - tim




From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug 23 12:17:32 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:17:32 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oab4s.ahl.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:25:11 -0400, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> pisze:

> + Simple M&S is slower given Python's extremely high dynamic memory
> throughput (*everything* in Python is heap-allocated, from execution
> frames to ints,

Would it work for Python to not heap-allocate ints but tag them in
the lowest bit, assuming pointers are even?

I know that 101 ints are allocated statically, and that it would slow
down generic object manipulation, so maybe savings would not be that
great. But it should be easy to test: just modify various macros.

This should seriously happen (if at all) after int/long unification,
because it takes away one bit of precision of ints. After proper
unification the user would not see the difference.

It works for OCaml.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From ddublanc at free.fr  Mon Aug  6 15:45:08 2001
From: ddublanc at free.fr (Dublanc, David)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:45:08 GMT
Subject: Windows : directory size without walking in it !
Message-ID: <8tCb7.19419$G12.4997216@nnrp1.proxad.net>

Hello,
I am trying to calculate the size of a directory under Windows NT.
It can be done in walking in each subdirectory and add the size of each
file.
The problem is : I have not the right/authorization to go in several
directories ! But if I right click on my mouse I can have the size of the
directory !

Do you know which method can I use to simulate this function with Python and
its Windows extension? (I think that win32file.GetFileSize is only for
file...)

Thanks.

--
David




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 19 15:22:45 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:22:45 -0400
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <7bCf7.45795$281.7714165@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELELGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Thomas]
>>> ...
>>> - For timing, the clock() call in the windows CRT yields rather
>>>   innacurate data, so I had to use a Win32 call.

[Tim]
>> Note that *Python's* time.clock() on Windows uses the Win32
>> QueryPerformanceCounter() call, which has better than microsecond
>> resolution on virtually all Windows boxes.

[Thomas]
> Yup, that's the call I'm using.  But initially I tried using the
> CRT clock() function (I seem to remember that this is the function
> used by the Python profiler).

I don't understand.  The Python profiler is written in Python, and uses
Python's time.clock(); it couldn't use a random C library function even if
it wanted to.  Python's time.clock() did call the msvcrt clock() on Windows
until early 1997, but has used QueryPerfomanceCouter() since then (ironic:
except on Win64!  QueryPerformanceCounter hadn't yet been implemented for
Win64 when Trent Mick did that port).




From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Mon Aug  6 14:33:01 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 14:33:01 -0400
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <e840346c.0108010251.1eea5ea0@posting.google.com> <9khlpt$911$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <3dy9ox11k2.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown) writes:
> Yeah, Andrew put this up about half a year after I wrote the ZIE666 page.
> I downloaded it & followed the instructions, and got package import
> errors.  *shrug*  Perhaps I'll try again some day ;).

Hm... any recollection what the import errors were?

--amk


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug  1 11:44:58 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:44:58 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:33:13 +0200."
             <9k6mkc02poc@enews4.newsguy.com> 
Message-ID: <m15RyB8-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote :

> "Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote in message
> news:mailman.996592198.30711.python-list at python.org...
> """
> > poor programming on my part, but I can't even think how one would type a
> > function like say:
> >
> >    def f(zs): return reduce( lambda x, y: x + y, zs )
> 
> Genericity (templates in C++) this is not a problem -- you get one
> instance of `f` for each type `zs` you happen to apply `f` to.
> 
> Disclaimer: C++ templates don't allow different return types for such
> functions, but that's a restriction of C++, not of genericity. IIRC,
> """
> 
> Beg pardon?
> 
> template<class A, class B>
> A myfunction(const B& b)
> {
>     return b;
> }
> 
> Maybe you mean that C++ doesn't *automatically INFER* A when
> you just call myfunction(something)?  But, you CAN partially
> specify myfunction<int>(something) [or, of course, totally
> specify myfunction<int,double>(something)], if you have a
> standard-compliant C++ compiler.

You're right, I was mixing things up. The restriction I remembered is
related to overload resolution not to templates.

Shows that I'm slowly recovering from my past immersion in C++ <wink>.
The traces of obscure bits of knowledge fade. I should refrain from
making passing comments about C++ arcana in the future, I guess.

> Back to Python -- programming in Python has always felt to
> me a *LOT* like generic programming

Yup. Only, in Python it's very implicit.

The nice thing about Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
on the generic parameters are spellt out explicitly. For most
application areas, Python still wins hands down, though.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 13 22:54:46 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:54:46 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <9l8saq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg> <3B77FF02.F2B5A90@alcyone.com> <3B783AEE.D04F9D61@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B7892F6.EDF87454@engcorp.com>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> > Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> >
> > >     self.state = 1 - self.state
> > >
> > > ;-)
> >
> > Why not just
> >
> >         self.state = not self.state
> >
> 
> Because these constructs are limited to representing only two states (0
> and 1), whereas the original construct was easily expandable to an
> arbitrary number of states, even though only two were shown for example
> purposes.

Good point, although I think Erik was suggesting a
better alternative to the x = 1 - x idiom.  Since it
is conceivable that x begins as a value other than
0 or 1, the x = not x idiom immediately brings it 
into the 0 or 1 range, whereas the other way just
has it alternate between two values, which *might*
be zero or one...

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 14:48:33 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:48:33 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000 at cc489744-a...
>
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Ben.Altman wrote:
>
> > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> > >
> > > > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to
(or
> > > at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a Python
> > > environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
> > > second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
> > > code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody
know
> > > of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables Python
> > > stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
> >
> > What about nedit.
>
> Aha, another one, so far we have:
>
> Emacs,
> Vim,
> Alpha,
> Jed,
> Nedit,
>
> that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?
>
Scintilla.

--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 26 18:21:04 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:21:04 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com> <9m3028025bu@enews4.newsguy.com> <3b855d84.271366254@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <5842083.WnqpD5jiFI@lunix.schabi.de>

Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> schrub:

> I would rather have the alternative syntax
>     a[b:+c]

This is not good as it is already valid at least since python 1.5.2 
with a different meaning (the + unary operator):
>>> list = [1,2,3,4,5,6]
>>> a = 2
>>> b = 3
>>> list[a:+b]
[3]

markus

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 02:39:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:39:25 +0200
Subject: Question about nested lists!
References: <f37349a7.0108021859.4f620ec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kdgta01ufj@enews4.newsguy.com>

"rainlet" <orrego at mail2000.com.tw> wrote in message
news:f37349a7.0108021859.4f620ec2 at posting.google.com...
> I use a nested list to make a 2-d array. The code follows:
>
>     floor_member = [ 0 ]
>     for x in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor_member.append ( 0 )
>     floor = [ floor_member ]
>     for y in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor.append ( floor_member )

This buils a peculiar structure indeed, 10 items all
referring to the same list object.  Simpler:

floor = [ [0]*10 for x in range(10) ]

and now the anomaly you've observed (and many
others) disappear (this is also faster & more
concise, of course).

If you insist in doing it your way, at least you have
to modify your code so a COPY of floor_member is
used each time rather than the object itself, using
    floor.append(floor_member[:])
as the last statement.


Alex





From matt at punitiveart.com  Wed Aug  1 16:59:25 2001
From: matt at punitiveart.com (Matt Yarbrough)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:59:25 -0600
Subject: Python on Sun Cobalts?
Message-ID: <200108012059.OAA13962@marge.mediasset.com>

I am trying to run an application (Zope) on a Sun Cobalt box that works just fine on Intel boxes, but when I run it on the damn MIPS box I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/matt/Zope-2.4.0-linux2-x86/z2.py", line 540, in ?
    import ZServer
  File "/home/matt/Zope-2.4.0-linux2-x86/ZServer/__init__.py", line 87, in ?
    from medusa.test import max_sockets
  File "/home/matt/Zope-2.4.0-linux2-x86/ZServer/medusa/test/max_sockets.py", li
ne 2, in ?
    import socket
  File "/home/matt/Zope-2.4.0-linux2-x86/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 47, in ?
    __all__.extend(os._get_exports_list(_socket))
AttributeError: 'os' module has no attribute '_get_exports_list'

This is python 2.1.1 built from source and zope 2.4.0 binary install.  Is there something peculiar about MIPS architecture that I will need to account for?

From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Fri Aug 24 10:57:01 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:57:01 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241721360.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>; from phd@phd.pp.ru on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:43:35PM +0400
References: <20010824091239.G930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241721360.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010824105701.H930@naxos.starmedia.net>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 05:43:35PM +0400, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > Funny you mention it...  The beginnings of the SkunkWeb FAQ are here:
> > http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/FAQ.html
> 
>    Ouch! Not so good, as I though before, at least for Zope. Whether your
> Mason/Webware observation is good or not so good - I cannot decide, but
> you've missed Zope almost completely :(
> 
>    Let me say a few words. Don't get me wrong - I am not against SkunkWeb.
> But your review should be more accurate. Let me try to argue and improve
> it.
> 
> > Like Webware, Zope uses a threaded model instead of a forking model
> 
>    Forking Zope would be an issue. It is too heavy.

On an SMP machine though, this kills performance because of the Python
Global Interpreter Lock.  It will only use a minute portion of the
other CPUs.  So if you're going to run Zope, basically don't bother
with SMP, you'd be wasting your money.  

> > DTML bites. It hits on making it easy to do easy things, but is too
> > constraining for the expert because you don't have the full flexibility
> > of Python in the tags.
> 
>    DTML is presentation language. Don't mix logic and presentation. If you
> need Python - just use Python, not DTML.

Well, but there is something called presentation logic.  Why have to
mash all of the presentation logic into modules when it's really
simple stuff.  Putting HTML in such cases into Python modules makes
life for the more techie guys in the shop hell because the front end
web people always want to change it and if it's in the Python code,
the techie people have to do it, so putting it in the templates makes
more sense, since this way, they can change it themselves.

> > I know that they are working on their next templating language (ZTL)
> 
>    ZPT - Zope Page Templates. It is not "next", it is just another,
> different approach. But still - if you need Python - use Python, do not
> program in ZPT.

I'll fix that.  ZPT still is quite ugly though.  I still argue the
point though: why can't I have my cake and eat it too?

> > Many people have written about how having the templates in the ZODB
> > instead of a filesystem can be a pain because you can't use all of your
> > usual filesystem tools/editors/etc.
> 
>    Yes, this is correct. Zope Corporation has a plan to move those objects
> into OS filesystem.
> 
> > Extending Zope is complicated
> 
>    Arguable. For simple extensions there are ZClasses. And writing a simple
> Python Product (module, component) is not a hard task. And even for more
> complicated Products Zope has a very nice API/classes/etc, so you don't
> nned to program everything. You already have persistent, web interface,
> etc.

Simple extensions of course should be simple, and are.  I guess the
kind of extensions I'm thinking of are things like writing a url
translation (of the english->spanish and back variety) scheme.  Not so
easy any more.  Or how about pull the source of templates from archive
files instead of ZODB (or the filesystem in the case of SkunkWeb)?

> > SkunkWeb (like Webware) was designed to be easily extendible and
> > customizable.
> 
>    I want to read more on this! How to write a DB connector? a module? an
> object to be published?

First of all, SkunkWeb is not primarily an object publisher.  When you
go to a web page, it's just a template.  Thinking about publishing
objects just complicates matters unnecessarily.  Yes, you can publish
objects by means of doing remote component calls, so in that respect,
publishing the object is a matter of writing a data component (which
is an absolute no-brainer).

Writing a DB connector is a breeze.  See the postgresql service in
SkunkWeb/Services.  Given it uses the PostgreSQL module in pylibs, but
most of that pylib is actually unnecessary (the ImmutableDict and
ResultList classes can go right into the trash, just haven't gotten
there yet).  In the really simple case where you don't care about
connection caching, you can just use the database-specific driver
(e.g. DCOracle, pgdb, etc.) code directly since there are no threading
issues to be concerned with.  Connection caching is really the only
thing that the DB connectors do (the Oracle connector can cache stored
procedure signatures too).

A module in SkunkWeb is just that: a module.  Just import it and do
stuff with it.

> > To call arbitrary code from Zope templates, you have to create Python
> > Method objects, which let's be honest, is a pain.
> 
>    Where is the pain?

I just want to import and call a function, not have to go through the
admin interface to say what functions people can call.  I want to
reduce the amount of work I (or others for that matter) have to do to
get the site up, running and fast.

> > STML has an import tag
> 
>    Insecure?

You don't trust the people who build the website for your company?
The trust models of Zope and SkunkWeb diverge significantly here.
With SkunkWeb, we assume if you have access to the filesystem to put
templates and/or modules on the server to begin with, we can trust
you.  Zope only trusts the administrators.  SkunkWeb was designed with
the idea that you have people who need to build a fast scalable web
site quickly.  Artificially restricting what your web people can do
only slows things down (both development and runtime).

> > I may be wrong on this one, but I don't think that Zope allows you to
> > cache the output of a template.
> 
>    There are cacheing Products.

But caching in a high-performance web serving environment is
absolutely central or you burn CPU (the app server's or the database
server's) like it's going out of style.

> > Modularity. It's pretty difficult to pull the cool bits out of Zope
> 
>    It is pretty easy to use ZServer, or ZODB, or DTML, or ZPublisher
> outside of Zope.

ZPublisher and DTML yes, but the others didn't used to be (keep in
mind the SkunkWeb project started 3 years ago when Zope was still
Principia).

Ok, that being the case though, for example, how much Zope code could
reasonably be used outside of Zope?  In SkunkWeb, only 6k lines is
SkunkWeb specific, the other 20k+ lines of code are things you can
totally use without using SkunkWeb.

>    Now few words about Zope. Zope has an Object request Broker (may be
> SkunkWeb has it, too). 

Depends on how you define it, but in short, yes you can call components
from outside of the SkunkWeb server if you configure it to allow it.

> ZServer is a multiprotocol server that already
> understands HTTP, PCGI, FastCGI, FTP, WebDAV protocols;

SkunkWeb understands HTTP and aecgi (similar, but different to the
protocol that the Apache Java Servlet engine speaks).  

One could argue that WebDAV and FTP are absolutely necessary for Zope
because of the fact that the templates don't reside in a filesystem.
With SkunkWeb, you use Apache/mod_dav for WebDAV and whatever FTP
server for FTP.

> it is modular,
> there is, for example, module for HTTPS protocol. 

Admittedly, SkunkWeb only supports SSL through Apache/mod_ssl right
now.

> There are many Database
> Adapters for relational databases: MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle, Informix,
> Interbase, Sybase, ODBC. 

SkunkWeb has support right now for Oracle, PostgreSQL and MySQL.
Others are definitely possible, I just don't have access to them at
this point.

> Security integrated into Zope, and is really very
> well implemented. 

Being somewhat of a security weenie, I'll leave very much well alone
on this one.

> Acquisition allows you to do very powerful object
> publishing.

A feature which works well for experienced programmers, but not all
people who build web pages (notably designers and HTML jockeys) are,
and you always have to keep them in mind.  It can cause a bit of head
explosion for a while until they get used to it.  One could argue
whether the power is worth the complexity.

> ZClasses are for simple programming. 

Wouldn't it seem reasonable for simple programming not to require a
class?

> ZCatalog - integrated
> search system.

Assuming you store everything in the ZODB that is...

> ZEO - clustering component. 

One could argue that if you store your data in a more conventional
database and your files in a filesystem, that ZEO just doesn't seem
that big of a deal.

Also, SkunkWeb can share it's cache between machines if the cache
lives on NFS or other shared filesystem (and of course, recover
gracefully if the filesystem goes away).

> Many good Products. 

Can't argue there.

> A lot of
> good documentation.

Depends on who you ask.

Cheers,
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 15 11:35:42 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:35:42 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997857742.26668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5394451.hacDa7dW09@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> schrub:

>>      is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>>      is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>>      is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>>      is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type

>   "type(value) == IntType"

>>> type(1L)==IntType
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: IntType

>   "type(value) == type(1)"

doesn't catch the second case:

>>> type(1L)==type(1)
0

Gerson has suggested a working solution.
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  9 20:25:13 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:25:13 -0400
Subject: passing FILE pointers to a non-MSVC++ compiled extension type???
References: <e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8OFc7.200$rV6.46790@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"doug" <doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f at posting.google.com...
> hello,
>
> bottomline:
> is there someway i can write an extenstion type's print method so that
> instead of fprintf-ing to the FILE* directly, i call back to some
> python c api function with the c string of what i want to print???
>
> explanation:
> i have written an extension type which defines its own print method.
> when it is compiled/linked under MSVC++ 6.0, the resulting .pyd works
> correctly.  however, when compiled/lined with borland's command line
> compiler/linker, the print method causes the python session to crash.
> in particular, the offending line within the print method is:
>
> fprintf(fp, "%s", (Self->Data).ReturnCString());  // fp causes crash
>
> i have read that other people have had the same problem, bc FILE
> pointers (which the variable fp is) cannot be passed between between
> MSVC++ compiled code and Borland-compiled code.
>
> a not-so-elegant workaround is to replace the above offending line in
> the print method with:
>
> std::cout << (Self->Data).ReturnCString();  // notice no fp is used
> here
>
> but this only works when python is run in a console window and doesnt
> work when the interpretter is embedded in a windows app (like
> PythonWin) where python redirects its own output.
>
> i absolutely have to use the borland compiler bc for the rest of my
> project, i use fairly intricate (though perfectly standard) c++ code
> which MSVC++ cant compile but borland will.  i have read in a long ago
> post that this is because borland and msvc++ use different RTLs.  is
> there a workaround within the python c api for this???  is there
> someway i can rewrite my print method so that instead of fprintf-ing
> to the FILE* directly, i call back to some python c api function with
> the c string of what i want to print to the console???
>
See the thread including

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/286480 at yahoo.com

for a fairly thorough airing of this topic.

now-activstate's-mail-archives-appear-in-google-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Fri Aug  3 19:07:02 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:07:02 -0400
Subject: Case insensitivity
Message-ID: <001201c11c71$0a797a20$a9e1fea9@carol>

>You have lots of good ideas and suggestions from others. /Please/ don't
>change Python to accommodate them all; it would spoil it. Put them into a
>/new/ language. Maybe even build in call and data level compatibility so
>they can be well integrated. Then people can choose whichever one is best
>for the task

PythonScript. Case-insensitive, unified numerics, etc and etc.  with call
and
data level compatibility with Python itself. Guessing its not technically
feasible until the Python Compiler arrives.  But what a way to go.

ART




From hjwidmaier at web.de  Wed Aug  1 07:28:01 2001
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 04:28:01 -0700
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com> <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com> <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com> <u8zh4u0b6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <lyH97.7737$9i1.681152@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0108010328.169affa5@posting.google.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
> 
> Was this the one that allowed to you define command lines like
> 
>     COPY FROM <file> TO <file>
> 
> and variations could be deduced from the noise words? I seem to remember a
> college chum of mine working in BCPL with a scheme like this, circa 1978,
> but have only this fading memory.

Yes. I had several Amigas for several years and I always loved those
command lines. The nice thing about it was that you could give
arguments by name and/or position:

   COPY <file> <file>
   COPY TO <file> FROM <file>

Sometimes this was rather convenient, e.g. if you had to repeat a
command a few times and change an argument (not often enough for a
loop or script, though).
You'd just hit Cursor-Up, Ctrl-W and type in the new argument.

And it looked nice, at least nicer than '-', '--' or '/'. The letters
are also easier to reach on the keyboard.

I would have written a parser for this under Unix, but I prefer to
have a consistent interface, which means basically getopt() (though I
did write my own C getopt()).

Hans-J.


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 10 17:45:47 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:45:47 GMT
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101554410.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>
Message-ID: <3B741C73.EBDD24F5@earthlink.net>

"Cris A. Fugate" wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Joseph Andrew Knapka wrote:
> 
> > Python has perfectly reasonable scoping (local,global,builtin).
> > It merely refuses to allow you access willy-nilly to arbitrary
> > stack frames, which is a good thing IMO. The fact that Tcl
> > requires such hackery in some situations is one of the things
> > I don't like about it (although I like Tcl a lot in general).
> > If you want to give a Python function access to its caller's data,
> > you pass references, not names.
> >
> How do you do that? What kind of data could I access by passing
> references?

[cc'd to c.l.p -- in case I've got this totally wrong someone
can gently point that out :-]

Just pass arguments. All names in Python have values that
are either basic types (eg Integer) or references to objects
(lists, tuples, class instances). This is, incidentally, exactly
the same as the way object references work in Java, IIRC.

So:

def add_to_list(l):
  l.append(42)

l = [1,2,3]
add_to_list(l)
print l

[1,2,3,42]

The reason the "swap" example doesn't work is that all
you can accomplish my rebinding names in a function is to
rebind the local object names, not the names in the caller.
You can modify the underlying objects, but you cannot modify
the names by which the caller sees those objects.

Regards,

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# 2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt A


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Mon Aug 27 11:45:43 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:45:43 +0200
Subject: python extension module / external linkage
References: <1ritf9zks6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3B8A6B27.5040906@___skynamics.com.invalid>

John Hunter wrote:
> I am building a python extension module with boost::python and am
> getting an error 'ImportError: ./Trade.so: undefined symbol: mtInit'
> when I try to import the module in python.  mtInit is a C function
> declared in a header with 'extern "C"' and defined in an object
> library that I link against when I build the python extension module.
> None of my python wrapper classes use 'mtInit' directly, but one of
> the classes that I am wrapping does call it in its constructor.
> 
> When I build the shared library Trade.so to import into python, I
> compile it with 
> 
> g++ -shared $(LIBPATHS) $(OBJS) -o Trade.so -lboost_python -lA -lB
> [...]

I think the "-export-dynamic" switch should do the trick.

-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 02:49:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:49:15 +0200
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997037168.27615.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9klek202s3b@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Fran?ois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.997037168.27615.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> I worked in AI fields for some while, before doing Operation Research,
later.
> I was rather surprised to find out that AI and OR were sometimes
addressing
> similar problems deep down, yet formulated quite differently.  The OR
> side was much more humble, and often reached better and faster results.

I had similar experiences, except that for me the counterpart to AI was
plain good old statistics.  For a while we went around with T-shirts that
were emblazoned with P(A|B)=P(B|A)P(A)/P(B) just to tweak the AI'ers
noses at meetings (as the debates turned into flamewars anyway we
might as well have some fun:-)...

> With a broad enough perspective, FORTRAN is a good AI language! :-)

We mostly used PL/I (and Rex for prototyping, way before it acquired
that second 'x':-), but, yes, Fortran was better for some of our work
(vectorializing & parallelizing some core parts of the computation, mostly;
PL/I didn't, while some Fotran compilers helped a lot).


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 16 21:41:52 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:41:52 -0400
Subject: SMTP
References: <mailman.997956746.8212.python-list@python.org> <3B7BF923.B8E03349@scripps.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7C7660.FFF77A13@engcorp.com>

Sophie Coon wrote:
> 
> That is how I do it :
> subject  = "My subject"
> body = "My message"
> msg = "Subject:"+subject+"\n"+body
> server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
> server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
> server.quit()

You likely need an additional "\n" between the last 
header line and the first line of the body.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu  Wed Aug  8 18:50:18 2001
From: shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu (Seung-won Hwang)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:50:18 -0700
Subject: [Q] listboxes end entryfield in dialog?
Message-ID: <7Ahc7.4326$A3.35219@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,

I'm wondering if putting two listboxes (w/ multiple selection) and one
entryfield in the dialog (e.g., in a selectiondialog). A short example code
would be very helpful to me. Thanks.

Bests,
SW




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug  1 11:00:03 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 19:00:03 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: =?windows-1251?Q?=CF=F0=EE=E4=E0=E5=F2=F1=FF_=E0=E4=EC=E8=ED=E8=F1=F2=F0=E0=F2=E8=E2=ED=EE=E5_=E7=E4=E0=ED=E8=E5_=E2_=CA=E0=E7=E0=ED=E8?=
In-Reply-To: <231642001831141329211@Athlon>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108011858140.9346-100000@phd.fep.ru>

Hello!

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, [windows-1251] ????????, 19 wrote:
> ????????????! ???? ????????.

   It was russian spam. Please everybody complain to cbell at utahsbr.edu
(information from SpamCop.Net)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From guido at python.org  Tue Aug 14 00:45:00 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:45:00 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:31:44 +0400."
             <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140829460.4760-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140829460.4760-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
Message-ID: <200108140445.AAA19902@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

[me]
> >All I want is to disable changes to *existing* classes by default.
> >You can write your own metaclass that changes the default, or you can
> >inherit from a dynamic base class -- thus, with very little effort,
> >you can make all your classes dynamic, if you want to.

[Roman]
> But not at run-time? Can I make
> 
> cls.__dynamic__ = 1
> 
> at runtime and then, for example, patch the classes of running
> system?

No.  If the class is immutable, you can't change its __dynamic__
attribute either, of course. :-)

> Or do I need to stop the system, make __dynamic__ changes and
> restart it again?

Yes.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Aug 25 12:19:32 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 09:19:32 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9m8j6k$pd8$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <20010822215737.01525.00001013 at mb-cv.aol.com>,
Deep0258 <deep0258 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>I am just wondering, since I am now joining python and it's greatness,
>why don't the developers of Python make Python just as fast(if not
>faster) than the older, more low-level lanquage. Yes, there are
>advantages using the interpreter style programs, but isn't there a way
>to incorporate the speed of compiled programs with the debugging and
>clearness of Interpreter to make Python a much faster lanquage. There
>might be a way, but I'm pretty new so I don't know. Any answers, thank
>you for listening?

Let me introduce another issue into this thread: one of the goals of
Python is to get out of the programmer's way so that zie can focus on
the program.  Let's say that Python is ten times slower than C or C++
(which is about right for "typical" code).  Now let's suppose that
Python lets you write code about twice as fast as C/C++, and that the
typical Python program doing the same work is about one-third as long
(also good assumptions for "typical" code).

This means that you can write six working Python programs in the time it
takes to write one working C/C++ program.  Or you could write the same
program six times, getting a better algorithm on each iteration.  If
your C/C++ program exhibits O(NlogN) behavior and your Python program
exhibits O(N) behavior, your Python program is likely to beat the C/C++
program over the long haul.

Python can *absolutely* be faster than C/C++.

Let's take another example, near to my specific expertise: suppose you
want to write a fast web spider.  Writing it in C/C++ is going to be a
pain, because the only way to get a fast spider is to parallelize the
I/O, which means either mucking around with RPC or threads in C/C++.  Do
you really want that pain?  OTOH, threads are *easy* in Python....
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Sun Aug 12 16:12:21 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:12:21 -0700
Subject: Confusion about iterator types
References: <vabbnt8mnnc3f2tt1chpf2q4sp406qagbc@4ax.com> <j43d6x48s9.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <gnodntg68a9i82tb6ruf8smp07k93hcvu8@4ax.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

>Kirby Urner <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> writes:

>I personally see no advantage in having it renamed, if you do, feel
>free to submit a feature request at sf.net/projects/python. If you can
>point to an actual problem that the current name causes, you should
>make it a bug report.
>

No, just trying to sort it out in my own mind at this point.  

>> And again, there's no 'callable-iterator' type in types.
>
>Sure is, it is called FunctionIterType. callable-iterator would not be
>valid identifier...
>
>Regards,
>Martin

OK, that was helpful.  Thanks loads.

Kirby



From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Wed Aug  8 02:27:41 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 06:27:41 GMT
Subject: PyQt install problem
References: <3B70BAB7.A9C3061C@ucdavis.edu>
Message-ID: <9kqm4t$6q9$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Bruce Wolk <bawolk at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> I compiled the sip-2.4.tar.gz  and   PyQt-2.4.tar.gz versions under
> Red Hat 7.1 against Qt2.3 and Python 2.1, both without any errors.  When
> I run the PyQt examples as root, I get the following message, but the
> examples run:

It would be interesting to examine the output of ldd on your
generated PyQt module, to see whether the Qt library it thinks it's
linked to actually exists - perhaps root and plain users have different
library paths.

If everything fails it might be best to ask on the PyKDE mailing list:

  http://mats.gmd.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde


-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Mon Aug 20 18:37:09 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:37:09 -0400
Subject: problem opening a file on 2.2a1
References: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9ls3aa$b24vu$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:

> Hi,
>   I compiled Python 2.2a1 on RedHat 7.0. When I enter the python
> interpreter from the command line the code:
> 
> data = open('data.out','w')
> 
> works fine. But when I try it froma  script I get the error:
>

Thanks - the 'from os import *' was the problem!

-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From ace at nrgg.aip.mk.ua  Mon Aug  6 04:53:25 2001
From: ace at nrgg.aip.mk.ua (ace)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:53:25 +0300
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <000c01c11e55$41399230$0164a8c0@server>

Unsubscribe
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010806/38d95599/attachment.html>

From garyr at fidalgo.net  Sat Aug 25 10:49:19 2001
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Gary Richardson)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:49:19 -0700
Subject: Tkinter window displaying the time?
References: <9m698a$t90$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <jtofp5nsuf.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <gSOh7.124673$rV6.6698536@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Is is possible to do this in a thread? I.e.:

from Tkinter import *
from time import *
import thread

def titleTime():
    now = strftime("GMT: %I:%M:%S %p", localtime(time()))
    #root.title(now)
    root.after(1000, titleTime)

root=Tk()
root.iconify()
thread.start_new(titleTime, ())
root.mainloop()

When I uncomment the line "root.title(now)" this code hangs up and I have to
exit the IDE to recover. I'm using PythonWin, ActivePython build 2.1.211.


"William Annis" <annis at biostat.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:jtofp5nsuf.fsf at wazor.biostat.wisc.edu...
>
> "G. Willoughby" <thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com> writes:
>
> > I thought of using a while 1: loop and providing a 1 second delay with
> > sleep(1) to update the title but this don't seem to be working, any
ideas???
>
>         With the while 1: loop the event handler will never have a
> chance to take over.  You want to schedule an update callback
> regularly.  Try this:
>
>
> from Tkinter import *
> from time import *
>
> def titleTime():
>     now = strftime("GMT: %I:%M:%S %p", localtime(time()))
>     root.title(now)
>     # Time in ms.
>     root.after(1000, titleTime)
>
> root=Tk()
> root.iconify()
> titleTime()
> root.mainloop()
>
>
> --
> William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
> annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
> Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org







From henk at waag.org  Tue Aug 21 05:51:08 2001
From: henk at waag.org (henk)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:51:08 +0000
Subject: strange error with python and mailman
Message-ID: <3B822F0C.8E0E5F24@waag.org>

Hi all,

i'm getting a strange error with mailman and python since a couple of
days. Stupid thing is that i cannot reproduce it on other boxes with the
same setup. The box is a straith debian/woody install with python-base
1.5.2-16, mailman 2.0.6-1, libc6 2.2.3-9.

I'm not a programmer but hope somebody can help me....

grtz,
henk

Logs:

Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473): Traceback (innermost last):
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 282, in ?
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      kids = main(lock)
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 252, in main
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      keepqueued =
dispose_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 121, in
                   dispose_message
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      if
BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, mimemsg):
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py", line
                    59, in ScanMessages
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      addrs = func(msg)
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Netscape.py", line 62,
                    in process
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      while 1:
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", line 121, in next
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      while self.readline(): pass
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", line 93, in readline
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      if marker ==
self.section_divider(sep):
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):   File
"/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", line 157, in section_divider
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473):      return "--" + str
Aug 21 09:41:02 2001 qrunner(12473): TypeError :  illegal argument type
for built-in operation



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 28 16:55:19 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:55:19 -0500
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999027702.15146.python-list@python.org> <too0t8tc1k3c8c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <too1d5n5hkqp76@corp.supernews.com>

"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:too0t8tc1k3c8c at corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Shane Anglin" <shane.anglin at mtni.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.999027702.15146.python-list at python.org...
> >
> Shane
> I see what you want to do.  Try this:
>
> > Non-working example:
> > --app1.py:
> > print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app2.py'>
> > print '<input type="text" size="10" name="var1">'
> > print "<P><INPUT type='submit' value='Submit'></P>"
> > </FORM>
> > #SUBMIT
> >
> > --app2.py:
> > form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> > VAR1 = form["var1"].value
>
> Now, we have to 'build' the hidden input!
> Hidden = '<input type=hidden name=' + VAR1 + '>'
>
> > #some database stuff happens
> > print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app3.py'>
>
> Now use :
> print Hidden
> instead of:
> > print '<input type="hidden" name=VAR1>'   # this doesn't work..it seds a
> > literal string of VAR1 and not the variable
or of course you can use:
print '<input type="hidden" name=',VAR1,'>'
As you see, you should not include your variable in the string because it
will be treated just like another string.
> Maan
>
>
>




From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Tue Aug 14 15:06:58 2001
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:06:58 -0400
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
References: <mailman.997798281.28806.python-list@python.org> <9lbhjn0282c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B7950D2.60828E15@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3B7976D2.F97B5AD2@astro.cornell.edu>

Rob Andrews wrote:
> 
> >
> > Paging down the PDF file (with Acrobat Reader 4 working as a
> > plug-in to IE 5.5) at page 5 I get an error messagebox:
> >     "There was an error processing a page. Too few operands."
> > then on clicking OK to that, another:
> >     "An unrecognized token 285.8.Tw was found"
> > and page 5 appears totally white.  So there would seem to
> > be some problem with the PDF version.
> >
> > Alex
> 
> Same experience here.

Same thing using Acrobat Reader separately on a Solaris box.

BTW, I *really* miss the table of contents from the old version
(a whole page with headings & subheadings and PAGE NUMBERS).  I keep
the printed copy by my desk (where it doesn't take up any screen
real estate!) and this made it a lot easier to navigate through.

Thanks for the great work on this....

Tom Loredo


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sat Aug 18 09:14:20 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:14:20 +0200
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
In-Reply-To: <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108181510020.18490-100000@cens.ioc.ee>


On 18 Aug 2001, Alex wrote:

> 
> I can't think of a good reason to make such a port.  Why not just
> provide interfaces that C++ programs can use, or write the slow parts of
> the python program in C/C++?

How about saving time in not learning (read: messing with) C++?

Pearu



From bokr at accessone.com  Tue Aug 28 19:37:19 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:37:19 GMT
Subject: TypeError
References: <3B8AB9F7.4020707@hotmail.com> <3B8C04F0.30906@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b8c26c6.716104674@wa.news.verio.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:54:08 +0200, Martijn <martijn_500 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Martijn wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I`ve got this error every time I want to use my classes and I can`t 
>> figure out what`s wrong. My code is ok and I`ve used some examples from 
>> a book to check it but I get the same error message.This is what happends:
>> 
>>  >>> import MyClassFile
>>  >>> m = MyClassFunction()
>> Traceback (innermost last)
>>         File "<stdin>"
>> TypeError: Call of nonfunction (type module)
>> 
>> I also tried:
>> 
>>  >>> import MyClassFile
>>  >>> m = MyClassFile.MyClassFunction()
>> 
>> And finaly :
>> 
>>  >>> from MyClassfile import *
>>  >>> m = MyClassFunction()
>> 
>> Both give me the same errors. What am i doing wrong ?!? I am using Linux 
>> btw.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanx in advance,
>> 
>> 
>> Martijn
>
>It still doesn`t work. This is a code snippet example from Python 2.1 Bible:
>
>class Wallet:
>	"where does my money go ?"
>		WalletCnt = 0
	WalletCnt = 0
>	def __init__(self,balance = 0):
>		self.balance = balance
>		Wallet.WalletCnt = Wallet.WalletCnt + 1
>	def getPaid(self,amnt):
>		self.balance = self.balance +1
>		self.display()
>
>	def spend(self,amnt):
>		self.balance = self.balance -1
>		self.display()
>	
>	def display:
        def display(self):
>		print 'New Balance: $%.2f; % self.balance
		print 'New Balance: $%.2f' % self.balance
>

if your class Wallet with above correction is in myClassFile.py
you should be able to do:
 >>> import MyClassFile
 >>> dir(MyClassFile)
 ['Wallet', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']
 >>> aWallet = MyClassFile.Wallet(10)
 >>> dir(aWallet)
 ['balance']
 >>> dir(MyClassFile.Wallet)
 ['WalletCnt', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'display', 'getPaid', 'spend']
 >>> aWallet.display()
 New Balance: $10.00
 >>> aWallet.spend(3)
 New Balance: $9.00
 >>> aWallet.display()
 New Balance: $9.00
 >>> aWallet.spend(3.0)
 New Balance: $8.00
 >>> aWallet.WalletCnt
 1

I'll leave it to you to debug why you can only spend single dollars.
Something tells me you didn't do much homework before posting ;-)



From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Fri Aug 17 14:00:28 2001
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 11:00:28 -0700
Subject: __del__ igners exception in 2.1?
References: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0108171000.38f6266b@posting.google.com>

>From the Python 2.1 docs, section on __del__() :

"Warning: due to the precarious circumstances under which __del__()
methods are invoked, exceptions that occur during their execution are
ignored, and a warning is printed to sys.stderr instead."


Vassilis Virvilis <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> wrote in message news:<3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E at iit.demokritos.gr>...
> Try the follwoing snippet:
> 
> class bar:
>   def __del__(self):
>     badsnake()
> 
> a=bar()
> del a
> print "It continues"
> 
> it spits:
> Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'badsnake' is not defined" in
> <method bar.__del__ of bar instance at 0x80cfa1c> ignored
> It continues
> 
> Why? Shouldn't the exception make python abort?


From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Wed Aug  8 08:02:22 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:02:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fun with None
Message-ID: <slrn9n2aie.qp5.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

Hi,

This may be old news, but I just accidentally discovered it was possible
to assign a value to None.

>>> None = 3
>>> None
3

Now, this is not too bad, because the _real_ None object is not modified (even 
using 'global None' will not work, but I would have thought None was a reserved
keyword or something, and that the above assignment would have raised a 
SyntaxError.


Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 14:14:21 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:14:21 +0200
Subject: scope question
References: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk> <3B704CAF.B6C8EA3E@YAHOO.COM>
Message-ID: <5868911.XyHoZDofJx@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Vineet <vidog112 at YAHOO.COM> schrub:

> The reason you get an error like that, is because 'count' can only be
> read, not changed. In your first example, you are only referencing
> 'count'
> and therefore, no exception.  However, in your second example, you are
> attempting to write to a global variable from a local function, which
> is not allowed.

It is allowed.

But per default, all Variables that you assign a value are treated 
local. Global variables have to be explicitly "imported" by using the 
command "global variablename" in your function body before your first 
access.

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Aug 16 16:57:29 2001
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:57:29 -0600
Subject: simple question
Message-ID: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F6C9DC8@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Bignose3 [mailto:k98jh01 at kzoo.edu]
> 
> I am a student starting to learn python coming from a C++ background.
> I am writing a simple simulation program were I am trying to assign
> each "swimmer" an ID.  Unfortunatley the way I would do it in C++
> doesnt work for python.  Can someone guide me in the right direction.
> 
> Here is the code that doesnt work, see what I am trying to do:
> 
> nextID= 0
> class swimmer:
>     def __init__(self, xpos, ypos):
+         global nextID
>         self.ID = nextID
>         nextID= nextID + 1
>         self.xpos= xpos
>         self.ypos= ypos
>     def xcord(self):
>         print self.xpos
>     def ycord(self):
>         return self.ypos
>     def swimmerID(self):
>         return self.ID
> 
> An explanation would be great to.  Not a complex program but you have
> to start somewhere:)

If you're going to assign to global variables, you'll need to let Python
know that you're talking about the global and not trying to create a new
local variable with the same name.

-- bjorn



From nospam at ihatespam.com  Sun Aug  5 23:19:16 2001
From: nospam at ihatespam.com (CCLittle)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:19:16 -0400
Subject: interpreter use... help?
Message-ID: <BZnb7.1612$96.1236@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

Hi,

How do I type try and except statements into the interpreter?  I know this
sounds REALLY REALLY dumb, but I'm having problems.

Here is what I do:

>>> try:
           action1()
           except TypeError:

SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>

The except part is highlighted.
I just can't make the except go one indentation level lower even by pressing
the backspace!
Short of putting everything inside a module and importing, is there a way
around this?
I'm using IDLE 0.8 on win2k BTW.  See my previous posts - I'm having a lot
of problems in general.

Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
CC




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  2 11:55:02 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:55:02 -0400
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996737344.3078.python-list@python.org> <3b695793.2250764@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3Hea7.17979$9i1.1380804@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"David C. Ullrich" <ullrich at math.okstate.edu> wrote in message
news:3b695793.2250764 at nntp.sprynet.com...
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
> <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 01-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
> > >  (Not that it makes any difference here, but
> > >  since you undertstand the math so much better
> > >  than I do: Exactly what definition of
> > >  "complex number" do you have in mind here?
> > >  The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
> > >  real numbers".)
> >
> >I'd say it's not the standard definition, but rather the standard
> >representation.
>
> Well, it _is_ the _definition_ in many contexts. Honest.
>
> (_Not_ that I see what it _matters_ what "the" definition
> in mathematics is! The idea that that should be an
> important criterion in determining the way Python
> complexes should work seems silly.)
>
> > The complex field C is an extension of degree 2 of the
> >reals R (by the way, the only possible extension of R). To get a
> >representation of the complex field you need a root of an irreducible
> >polynomial over R. The standard representation uses the polynomial
> >x**2 + 1, and we usually call that root i or j. This means that we have
> >i**2 = -1. This choice is natural, since it gives the easiest rules for
> >arithmetic operations. However, you could use any other irreducible
> >polynomial over R, e.g. x**2 + x + 1. You still would use a pair of
> >reals to represent a complex number, but another pair than you would
> >have in the standard representation. And the arithmetic rules would
> >be different as well.
>
> Something like that could be very interesting, but surely the
> sort of thing that could not possibly belong in Python proper
> instead of some specialized module.
>
> >What I believe Greg is aiming at is that the complex numbers are more
> >than a pair of reals. A pair of reals is not a complex number unless
> >you specify the arithmetic rules of the pair.
>
> It's certainly true that a pair of reals is not exactly the same
> thing as a complex for exactly the reason you give. I don't see
> what bearing that has on how a Python complex should work (and
> hence it doesn't seem to me to be what he was getting at, since
> he was drawing conclusions about what Python complexes should
> be from statements about what the mathematical definition is.)
>
> >Now *I* would not mind to allow complex numbers with integers as
> >coefficients. That way I would get Gaussian integers without specifying
> >my own class for the purpose. _But_, I understand that very few would
> >have a need for that.
>
> Right. For possibly the seventh time: I was not making a request.
> Just pointing out that when someone says that the fact that
> floats should always be inexact _implies_ that complexes
> should always be inexact someone seemed to be misunderstanding
> someone else's point, which point appeared to me to be
> a request for exact or inexact complexes which was perfectly
> consistent with the idea that floats should always be inexact.
>
I seem to remember suggesting that complexes should be considered exact if
both the real and the imaginary coefficients were exact. Perhaps this is the
point to which you refer?

In response somebody else pointed out that this was not really suitable,
because of the multiplicity of representations in mathematical and
engineering work.

What has not so far been explicitly stated (although several posts have
implied it) is that complex numbers are in fact points on a two-dimensional
plane. If we choose to represent those points as distances along two
orthogonal axes then the concept of exactness might be said to have some
meaning for the points at the intersections of two integral values. But if
we choose to represent an "exact" complex number (by the previous
definition) in polar coordinates (angle & magnitude) then the same complex
number would become inexact. Even though there is a strict mathematical
relationship between polar and orthogonal representations (which is many to
one, BTW), the transformations would render exactness a less than useful
concept. A similarly "exact" polar representation would become inexact in
orthogonal representations.

Hence I now believe exactness is not useful for complex values. Not that it
couldn't be implemented if somebody perverse enough chose to. Simply that it
wouldn't be useful.

which-won't-stop-c.l.py-debating-it-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 21 10:35:48 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:35:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Failed Install of Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <IDEBKIECLBLNHJABHGBHOEGHCDAA.nick.fearn@openmethods.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211035170.23498-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Nick Fearn wrote:

> I am trying to install version 2.0 on YDL 2.2.15 (over python version 1.5.2
> installed as part of apache toolbox) using RPM (rpm --rebuild
> Python-2.0-1.src.rpm) and the process fails as follows.
>
> /Include -I.. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c ./pyexpat.c
> ./pyexpat.c:5: xmlparse.h: No such file or directory
> make[1]: *** [pyexpat.o] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/Python-2.0/Modules'
> make: *** [sharedmods] Error 2
> Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.10905 (%build)
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> Thanks Nick

You need to install expat (http://www.jclark.com/xml/expat.html).

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug  5 20:00:54 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:00:54 -0400
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <mailman.997043171.6763.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6DDE36.2171424@engcorp.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> 
> On 5 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:
> 
> >I'm not convinced that logic programming == AI. I'm more of a bottom-up
> >genetic algorithm fan myself.
> 
> Well, "I" could be different. I always thought having logic is necessary
> to be intelligent. Evolution is not intelligent, but it solves problem.
> Probably, it could be called Artificial Intuition.

I'm with Doug on this.  Intelligence does not necessarily imply logic,
at least not in most of the formal senses.  Intelligence does, however, 
imply the acquisition of knowledge (learning) and its application.
(At least using the first definition from dictionary.com :-)

I consider genetic algorithms a good current example of what we
used to call artificial intelligence.  For certain kinds of problems,
especially some with which even we humans have difficulty, they are
very effective learners.  

The knowledge a GA acquires is encoded in the genomes of the 
evolved population.  Once a GA has found an acceptable solution, 
it is possible to analyze the best genomes and "reverse engineer" 
the encoded information, revealing things which would not have been
readily apparent to a human.  I call that intelligence of a sort,
and it sure beats my cat for problem solving.  (Disclaimer: my
cat is not the brightest cat, and some cats may exhibit greater
intelligence than current genetic algorithsm; no offense to
cats in general was intended by this posting.)

And I've been waiting for a chance to use Python (Stackless, of
course!) for some GA work.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Fri Aug  3 05:31:44 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:31:44 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <3b695793.2250764@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010803113140.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 02-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
 >  On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
 >  <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
 > >
 > >On 01-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
 > > >  (Not that it makes any difference here, but
 > > >  since you undertstand the math so much better
 > > >  than I do: Exactly what definition of
 > > >  "complex number" do you have in mind here?
 > > >  The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
 > > >  real numbers".)
 > >
 > >I'd say it's not the standard definition, but rather the standard
 > >representation.
 >  
 >  Well, it _is_ the _definition_ in many contexts. Honest.

In the sense that it is the only representation most people know of,
yes (people here refers only to those who knows anything about complex
numbers). 

 >  (_Not_ that I see what it _matters_ what "the" definition
 >  in mathematics is! The idea that that should be an
 >  important criterion in determining the way Python
 >  complexes should work seems silly.)

Well, Pythons complex type should - at least approximately within some
limits - behave as the corresponding mathematical concept. If it did 
not, it would be totally useless.

<snip my words about complex numbers from x**2 + 1 and complex numbers
from other irreducible polynomials>

 >  Something like that could be very interesting, but surely the
 >  sort of thing that could not possibly belong in Python proper
 >  instead of some specialized module.

Absolutely. I was merely pointing out that there are more than one
way to do it in math as well. But! There is only one obvious way,
as you are pointing out. However, the obvious way may change from 
time to time, just as it does in Python. :o)

 > > I mean, how many acually uses complex numbers
 > >at all in their programs. Most people still regard complex numbers as
 > >a very obscure corner in math. About only a 150 years ago, when complex
 > >numbers were new,
 >  
 >  ??? Not that it matters, but I woulda thought they'd been around a
 >  little longer than that.

After consulting "Mathematical thoughts from ancient to modern times" 
by Morris Kline, I must admit that I was not checking things correctly. 
Mathematicians were experimenting with roots of negative numbers 
in the sixteenth century, when they still had very strange ideas about
negative numbers. According to the very same book, many mathematicians 
were still utterly confused about complex numbers in the beginning of
the nineteenth century.

By the way, the mathematicans of the sixteenth century also had strange
ideas about irrational numbers, and they had been known for about 2000 
years at the time. According to the referred book, in the fifth century
BC, Hippasus, one of Pythagoras' disciples, proved that there exist 
numbers that are not rational. Citing the book:

  "The Pythagoreans were supposed to have been at sea at the time and 
  to have thrown Hippasus overboard for having produced an element in 
  the universe which denied the Pythagorean doctrine that all phenomena 
  in the universe can be reduced to whole numbers and their ratios."

I'm glad that I don't have to fear that my colleagues execute me if I
find exceptional results.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    03-Aug-2001
Time:    09:07:34

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 16:33:57 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:33:57 GMT
Subject: Striding slice?
References: <3b8951c6.530504965@wa.news.verio.net> <3B89F39B.4050103@senux.com.NOSPAM>
Message-ID: <3b8aae25.619687503@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:13:50 GMT, Brian Lee <senux at senux.com.NOSPAM> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>>  >>> a='0123456789'
>>  >>> a[0:5]
>>  '01234'
>>  >>> a[0:5:2]
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>  TypeError: sequence index must be integer
>>  >>>
>> 
>> How about (faked example):
>>  >>> a[0:5:2]
>>  '024'
>
>>>> a = '0123456789'
>>>> a[0:5]
>'01234'
>>>> a[0:5][:2]
>'01'
>
I actually did mean '024' ;-)



From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug  1 13:56:37 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:56:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <psod76fzx62.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108011014550.25517-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 1 Aug 2001, Christopher Barber wrote:

> > > You have detected a bug at compile-time instead of run-time and you didn't
> > > have to write a unit-test to find it.
> >
> > Take off your Curl glasses for just a moment and think Pythonically - that
> > is an error only because of the language-specific constraints - in Python
> > it's neither an error nor a problem.

[snip]

> As to the error, this would indeed be an error in Python as well but it would
> happen later in the program when some code tries to use 'i' as an integer
> instead of a string.

This is exactly why this compile-time type checking is ill-suited for
Python. The error is _not_ at the time of the "assignment", but later.
*If* the error occurs it will happen when the program attempts to use that
value in an incorrect way. The difference between the two is quite
significant. In Python there really isn't any assignment per se, but the
creation and deletion of references to values. Variables don't have types,
the values do, and attempting to check the types of the variables makes
far less sense.

Putting all that aside and assuming that the programmer goes on to try and
use an integer value as a string in some unsupported way, will that error
hide any longer than the very first time that piece of code is executed?
Probably not. And when it rears its ugly head, how will it manifest
itself? As an exception that includes the line number of the error. And
since there's no explicit compile step in Python, I probably would find
and fix that problem in Python before the Java version's compiler even
finished compiling! <g> The issue at hand is whether strict compile-time
type checking adds enough value to warrant their inclusion - I don't see
significant savings here.

Again, I think this goes back (at least in part) to programming in Python
while using a C++/Java/whatever mindset. For example, if you don't check
for null in a C program, your program may die in bizarre ways, so it's a
common and good practice to always check for null pointers. When you move
to Java you'll bring with you the same tendency to always check them, but
very often this doesn't actually add much value (if you check and raise an
exception on null, this isn't much different than what the VM will do on
its own if you don't perform the check).

> > > The language does not force you to specify types, this would also be legal,
> > > but you would not see the problem until you actually executed the code:
> >
> > Again, it's a problem _created_ by the constraints of the language, and/or
> > the division of labor between the language and the programmer. It doesn't
> > apply here (since we're supposedly exploring the weaknesses that _Python_
> > has without strict compile-time type checking.
>
> I don't see why it doesn't apply.  If I am forced to do more work because
> Python doesn't do it for me, then why can't I consider that to be a weakness
> in the language?

Sure, *if* it forces you to do more work.

>      question about this fact.  You might not think the benefit is significant
>      enough to be worthwhile, but that is a different issue.

Uh, sorta. Maybe it's time for this thread to die, but for a little while
I thought we were judging cost vs benefits. If so, then magnitude of
cost/benefit is of utmost importance. I'll readily agree (again) that in
some cases there can exist some benefit for this kind of type checking,
but it also seems that this benefit is almost never significant in Python.

>   2) Static type declarations allow the programmer to clearly express
>      their intent.  In this role they are only a shade better than comments.

Right. My assertion is that this causes more problems than it solves
because you seldom know your "intent" in that much detail, much less your
future intent. Seems like ultra strict type checking might work well in
cases where you have very precise requirements and once built, your
software won't be changing any time soon (a la space shuttle software).
Most programs don't fall into that category.

> One problem I remember having was that I was writing library code and had to
> write explicit run-time type-checking code to check the types of incoming
> arguments.

But why? Anyone using the library would catch on pretty quickly if they
were passing in bogus values. Also, that sort of type-checking tends to
diminish the usefulness of the code (you allow someone to give you a
dictionary but you prohibit an object that looks and acts like a
dictionary). Once again, I can't help but feel that this is more a
misapplication of other-language-Best-Practices that don't necessarily fit
with Python than response to specific problems one encounters in
Python.

> BTW, is there a code coverage measurement tool for Python yet?

Tools/scripts/trace.py

-Dave




From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 13:20:32 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:20:32 GMT
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998790578.9547.python-list@python.org> <7x4rqt8z2d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b8a7be2.606820451@wa.news.verio.net>

On 27 Aug 2001 05:30:50 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:

>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
>> > so why not this then:
>> >
>> >     x = long("123"
>> >              "456"
>> >              "789")
>> >
>> > which saves all the splitting and joining and is (nearly) as readable?
>> 
>> Because it's not as readable, or as easy to edit.  The cost of splitting and
>> joining on one-shot initialization code is insignificant, most likely too
>> small to measure.
>
>The cpu costs of splitting and joining at initialization are
>insignificant but writing out the numbers in ascii instead of in
>marshalled form makes the .pyc files somewhat bigger (a few hundred
>bytes in this situation).  That shouldn't be disastrous but it strikes
>me as unnecessary bloat.  Being able to split literals with backslash
>wouldn't mess up the language in any way I can easily see.
>
>Btw, the target computer is a handheld with limited memory and whose
>file system is entirely in ram, so burning space unnecessarily in the
>.pyc hurts a little more than it would on a pc with gigabytes of disk
>available.
 >>> dis.dis(compile("'123' '456'",'','eval'))
           0 SET_LINENO               0
           3 LOAD_CONST               0 ('123456')
           6 RETURN_VALUE
 >>> marshal.dumps(compile("'123' '456'",'','eval'))
 'c\x00\x00\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00s\x07\x00\x00\x00\x7f\x00\x00d\x00\x00S(\x01\x00\x00\x00
 s\x06\x00\x00\x00123456(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x0
 0s\x00\x00\x00\x00s\x01\x00\x00\x00?\x00\x00s\x00\x00\x00\x00'
 >>>

The '123' '456' seems to be folded in the tokenizer,
not passed on as tokens for a join op.

I do wonder if also letting it ignore
'\\'+os.linesep (assuming normalized EOLs) would break anything.


From notta at chance.net  Sat Aug 25 16:14:03 2001
From: notta at chance.net (john anon)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:14:03 -0500
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
Message-ID: <jGTh7.21$Ks5.40555@nnrp2.sbc.net>

at the risk of repeating an old question
(I looked -- really -- I looked)

if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?




From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Thu Aug 23 10:03:26 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:03:26 +0200
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com> <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com> <lm4qntk0qlf6v8gr6hfjgec4rr340emt6k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cf1aot09p6lge4je8m53sdoda352dpoimk@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:51:00 +0200, Paul Moore <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com>
wrote:

>>It should :(  The Excel etc demos all work fine with very similar 
>>constructs.  You could try:
>>
>>    return 1==1
>>
>>which due to an implementation detail will ensure that a VT_BOOL is 
>>returned - however, this should not be necessary.
>
>Nope, that din't fix it. Looks like it might be a bug in the component. But as
>it works fine from VBScript and Perl (JavaScript can't handle ByRef
>parameters, so I can't try that), I'm not sure how much chance I have of
>getting the developer to care... :-(

I got a code snippet from the developer, and the component does check VT_BOOL.
I'll ask him to change that.

Now, I find that

    return 1, 1==1

works. Looks like the WakeUp parameter is being set from the *second* return
value. And yet the IDL shows

>
>        HRESULT OnTick(
>                        [in] VARIANT RemainingTime, 
>                        [in, out] VARIANT* WakeUp);
>

Which, if I understand the win32com stuff (which I don't!!!) should mean that
WakeUp gets set from the *first* return value, not the second. Where did the
first value go?

Am I misunderstanding here? With a normal method, the return value is a tuple
consisting of the [out, retval] value first, followed by any other [out]
parameters. But for an event, there isn't a [retval] parameter, and it's the
component calling us, not the other way around. Could that make a difference?
I tried to follow the DispatchWithEvents code, but it's totally beyond me...

Paul.

PS I don't see a specific PyVARIANT (or whatever) type in the COM support
stuff. It might be nice to have, for cases where a component *requires* a
particular variant type, or something equally obscure...



From larrystg at san.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 03:58:40 2001
From: larrystg at san.rr.com (Larry)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:58:40 GMT
Subject: Copyright Madness
Message-ID: <QkKf7.3608$Qh2.775818@typhoon.san.rr.com>

Hi,

     I'm considering using Python 2.1.1 for a commercial application that I
intend to market and sell for profit.  I've explored python.org and found
only confusion.  It seems that earlier versions of Python were not as
copyright restrictive as 2.1.1.  Would my plan be a violation of the GPL?
Would I have to distribute my program for free?  I'm pretty confused on this
matter, and I really don't want to call a lawyer.  Thanks.

L




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 04:26:49 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:26:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk> <mailman.997374194.8782.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F95E62F489Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> wrote in
news:mailman.997374194.8782.python-list at python.org: 

> From: Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk>
> Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
> 
>> Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and
>> deleting elements that don't meet a certain criteria. 
> 
> some_list = [ x for x in some_list if some_test(x) ]
> 
Possibly better to do:
 some_list[:] = [ x for x in some_list if some_test(x) ]

Otherwise any other references to the list won't be updated.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 09:08:22 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:08:22 GMT
Subject: Dictionary viewer and editor
References: <79179cf5.0108101306.739764ee@posting.google.com> <j4g0aydhu6.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cp7kwabv9s.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell) writes:

> Are there any programs out there that can take in a dictionary object
> of arbitrary depth, and display it in a text or graphical tree format?

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:

> I think Pythonwin's object browser can.

IDLE's TreeWidget can too.  It's used by Stack Viewer in the Debug
menu.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From barry at zope.com  Wed Aug 15 23:44:49 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:44:49 -0400
Subject: string hash, and an email to stimpy.
References: <3B7B0402.38DA26A6@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <15227.16817.141481.486014@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "OB" == Ori Berger <orib at writeme.com> writes:

    OB> Who's the aforementioned stimpy figure? (No, I don't watch TV
    OB> if it's related - you'll have to give me all the details).

Stimpson J. Cat, a.k.a. "Stimpy" of the Ren & Stimpy show.  Stimpy's
the one on the left doing the chokin':

    http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/2633/rs1.JPG

happy-happy-joy-joy-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From barry at zope.com  Wed Aug 22 14:55:49 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:55:49 -0400
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.2a2 is out!
Message-ID: <15236.53.399240.678090@yyz.digicool.com>

We've released Python 2.2a2, the second alpha for Python 2.2, for your
enjoyment, education, and edification.  Download it from:

  http://www.python.org/2.2/

Give it a good try, and report what breaks to the bug tracker:

  http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

New features in this release include:

- Tim Peters developed a brand new Windows installer using Wise 8.1,
  generously donated to us by Wise Solutions.

- The floor division operator // has been added as outlined in PEP
  238. The / operator still provides classic division (and will until
  Python 3.0) unless "from __future__ import division" is included, in
  which case the / operator will provide true division.

- The type/class unification (PEP 252-253) was integrated into the
  trunk and is not so tentative any more (the exact specification of
  some features is still tentative).  A lot of work has done on fixing
  bugs and adding robustness and features (performance still has to
  come a long way).

- Lots of bug fixes, contributed patches, and other stuff.  See the
  Misc/NEWS file in the distribution, or see the release notes on
  SourceForge:

  http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=49302

As usual, Andrew Kuchling is writing a gentle introduction to the most
important changes (currently excluding type/class unification), titled
"What's New in Python 2.2":

  http://www.amk.ca/python/2.2/

There is an introduction to the type/class unification at:

  http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

Thanks to everybody who contributed to this release, including all the
2.2 alpha 1 testers!

Enjoy!
-Barry & Guido



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Aug 27 18:08:56 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 18:08:56 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uu1ytrw93.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:

> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?

After reading this thread, it appears that you probably want more fine
grained locking, but just in case you do end up falling back to some
sort of sentinel file or more global lock approach...

An alternative to the msvcrt lock stuff for a full file lock that may
be more portable among Windows platforms would be to just open your
lock file using the native Win32 CreateFile call (wrapped in
win32file), and ask for exclusive access (no sharing mode).  If you
need to do I/O to the lock file you'll probably need to use the Win32
functions (although you could wrap that in a file-like object), but if
you're just using that file to restrict access to other files it can
be a convenient method.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 05:47:41 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:47:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FD6E0B6D08Dmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in
news:9lan1301822 at enews1.newsguy.com: 

> Seriously now -- multiple assignment is a very minor thing, but
> handy when you do need it, and not error-prone.  So, why not?
> 

Yes, I think I have to accept defeat and agree here.  I guess it's not 
really all that error prone: the example we started with was rather 
contrived.  As you say, it's not a feature to get anxious about.

At least assignment is not an expression, as in C (which is how I think I 
got my semantics confused the first time).


From michaelteo at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 30 11:17:05 2001
From: michaelteo at bigfoot.com (Michael Teo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:17:05 +0800
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
Message-ID: <slrn9osmeo.g1.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>

I get an "OverflowError: long int too long to convert" when I tried to 
print "%d" % l
where l is a long Python value.

I have tried using str(l) but that gives a trailing 'L'.

Any good suggestion on how to solve this problem will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.


-- 
Michael Teo <mailto:michaelteo at bigfoot.com>
http://miketeo.net/
PGP  0x6C846A9C  DB:7D:51:D4:4D:AB:97:79:E4:68:D9:07:94:36:D5:1A:6C:84:6A:9C
     0x6937FB05  08:50:A1:4D:2E:45:58:60:DE:71:1F:30:63:54:EF:7B



From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Tue Aug 14 19:22:10 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:22:10 +0100
Subject: An Archive::Tar for Python - libtar.py (0/1)
Message-ID: <0qbjnt40e9os079thccp02o4hd5mbb9ej9@4ax.com>

I've hacked up the following python workalike of the Perl CPAN module
Archive::Tar.  Currently it does most things the Perl ver does, with
the notable exception of reading .tar files off disk and handling
reading/writing of gzipped tars - but I'm working on these.  The core
code is lifted straight out of tar.py from Zope.  I've developed this
on python 2.0.1.  Comments very much appreciated, try it out and tell
me if (when) you find any bugs.  Some of the lines are over 72 chars
so I've attatched it as well.

#!/usr/bin/env python2

"""libtar.py

manipulation routines for the tape archive (.tar) file format

(c) 2001 Tom Robinson <tom at alkali.org>

originally based on tar.py from Zope:

    This product includes software developed by Digital Creations
    for use in the Z Object Publishing Environment
    (http://www.zope.org/).

File format:
http://www.gnu.org/manual/tar/html_node/tar_123.html

STILL TO DO:
   read in tar archives
   read/write gzipped files

"""

import string, os, stat, time, zlib

# helper functions

def oct8(i):
    i=oct(i)
    return '0'*(6-len(i))+i+' \0'

def oct12(i):
    i=oct(i)
    return '0'*(11-len(i))+i+' '
    
def pad(s,l):
    ls=len(s)
    if ls >= l:
        raise ValueError, 'value, %s, too wide for field (%d)' % (s,l)
    return s+'\0'*(l-ls)

#--------------------------------

class TarEntry:

    def __init__(self, path, data,
                 mode = 0644, uid = 0, gid = 0, mtime = None,
                 typeflag = '0', linkname = '', uname = 'nobody',
                 gname = 'nogroup', prefix = ''):
        "Initialize a Tar archive entry"
        if mtime is None: mtime=int(time.time())

        self.path = path
        self.data = data
        self.mode = mode
        self.uid = uid
        self.gid = gid
        self.mtime = mtime
        self.typeflag = typeflag
        self.linkname = linkname
        self.uname = uname
        self.gname = gname
        self.prefix = prefix

    def header(self):
        header = string.join([
            pad(self.path,      100),
            oct8(self.mode),
            oct8(self.uid),
            oct8(self.gid),
            oct12(len(self.data)),
            oct12(self.mtime),
            ' ' * 8,
            self.typeflag,
            pad(self.linkname,  100),
            'ustar\0',
            '00',
            pad(self.uname,      32),
            pad(self.gname,      32),
            '000000 \0',
            '000000 \0',
            pad(self.prefix,    155),
            '\0'*12,
            ], '')

        if len(header) != 512:
            raise 'Bad Header Length', len(header)

        header = (header[:148] +
                  oct8(reduce(lambda a, b: a + b, map(ord, header))) +
                  header[156:])

        return header
    
    def __str__(self):
        data = self.data
        l = len(data)
        if l % 512: data = data + '\0' * (512 - l % 512)
        return self.header() + data

#--------------------------------

class Tar:
    def __init__(self, name):
        self._name = name
        self._entries = []
        self._entrynames = []
        
    def add_entry_data(self, *args):
        self._entries.append(TarEntry(*args))
        self._entrynames.append(args[0])
        
    def add_entry(self, filename):
        self._entrynames.append(filename)
        
        statresult = os.stat(filename)
        mode = statresult[stat.ST_MODE] & 0700
        uid = statresult[stat.ST_UID]
        gid = statresult[stat.ST_GID]
        mtime = statresult[stat.ST_MTIME]

        f = open(filename, 'r')
        data = f.read()
        f.close()

        if os.name == 'posix':
            import pwd, grp
            uname = pwd.getpwuid(uid)[0]
            gname = grp.getgrgid(gid)[0]
        else:
            uname = 'nobody'
            gname = 'nogroup'

        self._entries.append(TarEntry(path=filename, data=data,
                                      mode=mode, uid=uid, gid=gid,
                                      uname=uname, gname=gname))

    def add_entries(self, *filenames):
        "Takes a list of filenames and adds them to the in-memory
archive."
        for x in filenames:
            self.add_entry(x)
            
    def list_files(self):
        "Returns a tuple with the names of all files in the in-memory
archive."
        return tuple(self._entrynames)

    def get_content(self, entryname):
        "Return the content of the named file."
        return self._entries[self._entrynames.index(entryname)].data

    def replace_content(self, entryname, content):
        "Make the string content be the content for the file
entryname."
        self._entries[self._entrynames.index(entryname)].data =
content

    def extract(self, *entrynames):
        "Write files whose names are equivalent to any of the names in
entrynames to disk, creating subdirectories as neccesary."
        for x in entrynames:
            ent = self._entries[self._entrynames.index(x)]
            f = open(x, 'w')
            f.write(ent.data)
            f.close()

    def remove(self, *entrynames):
        "Removes any entries with names matching any of the given
filenames from the in-memory archive."
        for x in entrynames:
            idx = self._entrynames.index(x)
            self._entrynames.pop(idx)
            self._entries.pop(idx)

    def object(self, entryname):
        "Return a ref to the TarEntry object for the given filename."
        return self._entries[self._entrynames.index(entryname)]

    def write(self, name = None, compressed = 0):
        "Write the in-memory archive to disk."
#        if compressed:
#            if name is None: name = self._name + '.gz'
#            data = zlib.compress(self.data())
#        else:
#            pass

        if name is None: name = self._name
        data = self.data()
                
        f = open(name, 'w')
        f.write(data)
        f.close()

    def __str__(self):
        "Return the data for the .tar file in memory."
        data = []
        for x in self._entries:
            data.append(str(x))
        data.append('\0' * 1024)   # end-of-archive entry
        return string.join(data, '')

    def __call__(self):
        "Return the data for the .tar file in memory."
        return str(self)

    def data(self):
        "Return the data for the .tar file in memory."
        return self()
    
#--------------------------------

def main():

    t = Tar('foo.tar')
    #t.add_entry('libtar.py')
    t.add_entry_data('monkey.foo', 'hello')
    t.replace_content('monkey.foo', 'goodbye')
    t.add_entry_data('monkey.bar', 'where is the bar')
#    t.extract('monkey.foo', 'monkey.bar')
    
    print t.list_files()
    print t.get_content('monkey.foo')

    t.write()
#    t.write(compressed = 1)

if __name__ == "__main__": main()


-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Thu Aug  2 20:07:32 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:07:32 -0700
Subject: Python 2 times slower than Perl
References: <8f41cfd.0107171238.6ff33b9b@posting.google.com> <ku7kx7gtzk.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <20010802.160644.824272813.1331@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <017401c11bb0$4d6763e0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

According to http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/:

Actually python averages somewhere around 10% slower than perl.
(sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes python wins)
But python uses about 10% less memory.
(sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes perl wins)

Neither of these perturbations are significant considerations IMO.

Anyway, benchmarks exagerate.  In real application most time in either
language is spent inside library calls.  When you factor that in, I'd bet
the difference in overall performance between python and perl would
be negligible or would have to be explained by a difference in quality
of the extension libraries, not the interpreters.

- Ken Seehof
kseehof at neuralintegrator.com
www.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Nenadov" <mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Python 2 times slower than Perl


> In article <ku7kx7gtzk.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, "Erno Kuusela"
> <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> 
> > Can anybody explain why Python is always about 1 time | slower than
> > Perl?
> > it is not - sometimes it is slower and sometimes faster.
> >   -- erno
> 
> It doesn't really matter anyways. A developer's time is usually more
> costly (except in certain situations). Python code is much easier to
> maintain. 
> 
> Think about it this way: structured/procedural programming is much faster
> than using objects. Why don't we all go back to the old way? There are
> tradeoffs to developing reusable and easy to maintain software. Sometimes
> you gotta sacrifice on the execution speed. 
> 
> -- 
> "Son, is that spagetti on your screen, or is it just Perl code?" - Anon.
> 
> ~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 26 12:52:05 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:52:05 GMT
Subject: get mac/ physical address of network card with python
References: <mailman.998838460.15310.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9oiaau.jv.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:06:14 -0400, Scott Syms <Scott.Syms at pwgsc.gc.ca> wrote:

>Wondering if anyone knew how to grab the mac address of a network card from
>within Python.

Well, this works under Linux (but I don't think many other
systems support raw sockets):

  s = socket.socket(socket.AF_PACKET,socket.SOCK_RAW)
  s.bind(("eth0",9999))
  mac = s.getsockname()[-1]
  
  print ":".join(["%02x" % ord(x) for x in mac])


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It's NO USE... I've
                                  at               gone to "CLUB MED"!!
                               visi.com            


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 14:52:25 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <3sciotomam3i0lbereg6gik3rvjl4l4ifv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261448590.23937-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
> <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.998845240.31171.python-list at python.org>:
>
> :On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:
> :
> :> I am intending to use this for programs that will access databases.
> :> Specifically, CGI scripts using the Berkeley data base hash. The
> :> Berkeley Sleepy Cat that I have access to doesn't support concurrent
> :> write access. I have to handle the file locking myself.
> :
> :I'm just curious as to why you're not using a database server for this. Any
> :specific reason?
>
> Because I don't have access to one. (Not everyone does, you know.)

That's fine; I understand. I was just curious, that's all.

> In my case, I could spend extra $$$ (on the order of $20 extra per month
> over what I'm spending for hosting now) to get a mySQL database, but I
> can't do that right now. (Probably some day, I will.)
>
> I looked at Gadfly, but it doesn't support concurrent access, and
> requires running a server. I can't have a process running all the time
> in the background (as I mentioned in another post that you may not have
> seen yet), so running it all the time is out. And starting up the server
> every time I want to run a CGI script seems prohibitive (too much time
> and CPU usage).
>
> Even if I managed to get access to a database server, there'd be someone
> else who wanted to do what I'm doing. It's quite common in CGI scripts.
> I'm guessing, because of the frequent references to the fact that Perl
> only *appears* to provide cross-platform file locking, that many of the
> cgi scripts that are out there don't actually work as the author
> intended.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

I was just poking around in the Sleepycat documentation, and apparently they
have some sort of locking scheme via their C API. Which version on Sleepycat
do you currently have access to, and how are you accessing it? You'll have to
excuse my na?vet? when it comes to file-based databases.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Aug 15 10:01:24 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:01:24 -0500
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52EA@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

Gee.  Now I am a guy who uses Java, Perl, and Python at work.  Now the last
two I don't use every day, but I do like both.  Now there are two questions
to ask.
1.  What skill sets are present to develop software in.
2.  What skill sets are present to maintain the software in.
Let's look at my arguments for using Perl and Python.
   1.  Easy to Learn and use.
   2.  More universal then shell scripts.
   3.  Free
   4.  Zope is available
Now JSP can be used if you have a tool like Dream Weaver Ultradev.
   1.  JSP is free if you use Apache/Tomcat and Sun JDK.
   2.  Dream Weaver generates the code for you with little tweaking.
   3.  Java skills can get you a job.
   4.  Dream Weaver can handle the Oracle connections.  (If you can't afford
Oracle, use something like mysql or postgresql).

>From a personal perspective, I choose software that is easy to use, works,
and is reliable and stable.  Perl comes standard with Solaris, and I run the
active state Python on the server also.  And even if our web development is
using JSP and static HTML, there are many things that can be done in Perl
and Python.  If you think about it, Java, Perl, and Python are all free, and
I see no conflict in working with all. I can save my bashing for Microsoft
(with their crummy IIS, ASP, and systems that keep having identify crisis).
Qee.  Who am I?  Am I XP, Windows 2000, NT, ME, etc?  And who got shut down
for two days from the red worm virus? 

If you are a fan of open source, like I am -- then choose widely used open
source that have been around a long time, have a large following, and great
future potential.  For example,
Apache     -- www.apache.org
Tomcat     -- http://jakarta.apache.org
Jboss      -- www.jboss.org
mysql      -- www.mysql.com
postgresql -- www.postgresql.org
jabber     -- www.jabber.org
Linux      -- Any major flavor
For web stats.
webalizer -- www.mrunix.com/webalizer
Analog    -- http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/analog/

By the way -- The first thing I would convince management is to scrape the
Iplanet web server, and run a combination like Apache/Resin (www.caucho.com)
or Apache/Tomcat.  I ran Iplanet on Solaris in a former life, and it is
nothing but a headache to deal with -- besides costing money, and being
inferior to the other combinations I mentioned.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maan M. Hamze [mailto:mmhamze at pleiades.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:41 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)


Hi to the most esteemed Python People
I work as a programmer and we are working on a web project.  I am pushing
for Python.  The web project calls for logging into an Oracle database,
uploading and downloading files depending on the login information,
processing uploaded files, and a host of million other things.  I had
already done the basic functionality all in CGI using Python.  Someone else
here is calling for the use of JSP.  So, the question being asked here:  Why
do I want to use Python and NOT JSP?  I simply can not just say:  Well, it
is an issue of bias, and I know Python and like it, and can stand neither
JAVA, nor JSP although I do not know anything about JSP.
Did anyone here deal with JSP in addition to Python?  If yes, how could you
convince a skeptical management to use Python and not JSP?
We use an IPlanet web server running on Sun Solaris by the way.
Thanks for any information,
Maan





From markus at schabi.de  Mon Aug 27 17:53:40 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:53:40 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <9md10h01g1e@enews1.newsguy.com> <r4ti7.111293$B37.2438740@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <9mdnrf02jv9@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <2789974.VU6TSbVV5P@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> schrub:

>> An additional point may be that your Python may have be compiled with
>> better optimizations.
> 
> That is of course quite possible.  It's the stock 2.1.1 version
> for Windows as downloaded from comp.lang.python, though.

I have the debian standard package, which usually are compiled with 
good 386 in mind :-)

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Fri Aug  3 09:20:15 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:20:15 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996737344.3078.python-list@python.org> <3b695793.2250764@nntp.sprynet.com> <3Hea7.17979$9i1.1380804@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3b6a2d0f.1127747895@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3b6aa499.1592299@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:07:10 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote:

[...]
>
>I've never done anything with exact complex numbers, so I don't know how it could
>really be used. I guess you could say the angles in an FFT are implicitly exact,

That was exactly what got me to speculating on how complexes with
exact arg might be interesting - one could have a _lossless_
FFT/inverseFFT pair.

>but I don't know how you could do the whole thing exactly, except maybe a trivial case.

And that's exactly why I said "never mind" a day later.

>IIRC, Henry Baker(?) wrote something about exact integer cartesian-represented complex
>in some ACM SIG article, but I don't remember much more than that.
>


David C. Ullrich


From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 01:09:31 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:09:31 -0400
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
References: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper> <mailman.998588555.5777.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B85E18B.8BB0B485@engcorp.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     rb> I dont get what's going wrong here and my girlfriend realy wants to
>     rb> play solitaire on linux (and isn't to impressed with kpatience)
> 
> Sounds like you have other problems if your girlfriend wants to play
> solitaire. ;-)

What problem?  Now he has more time to program in Python! :-)

-P


From bsb at winnegan.de  Tue Aug 21 15:46:30 2001
From: bsb at winnegan.de (Siggy Brentrup)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 21:46:30 +0200
Subject: Example wanted for inspect module
In-Reply-To: <B5yg7.303492$Do6.12699793@nnrp4.clara.net>
References: <B5yg7.303492$Do6.12699793@nnrp4.clara.net>
Message-ID: <87k7zx6vs9.fsf@winnegan.de>

"RT" <richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com> writes:

> The inspect module's getmembers() function takes 2 arguments - the object
> whose members you want to retrieve and an (optional) predicate.
> 
> Could somebody please provide an example of how the predicate is used (for
> example - to get only the functions from a module).

Python 2.2a1+ (#2, Aug 20 2001, 08:22:00) 
[GCC 3.0.1 20010811 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import socket, inspect
>>> inspect.getmembers(socket,inspect.isfunction)
[('getfqdn', <function getfqdn at 0x8116fd4>)]
>>># Ups, but there is:
>>> socket.gethostname
<built-in function gethostname>
>>># Ah, it's not really a module function
>>> inspect.getmembers(socket,inspect.isclass)
[('SSLType', <type 'SSL'>), ('SocketType', <type 'socket'>),
('_closedsocket', <class socket._closedsocket at 0x814ec9c>),
('_fileobject', <class socket._fileobject at 0x8117064>),
('_socketobject', <class socket._socketobject at 0x8116f84>),
('error', <class socket.error at 0x8142aec>), ('gaierror', <class
socket.gaierror at 0x8142d74>), ('herror', <class socket.herror at
0x8142c1c>), ('sslerror', <class socket.sslerror at 0x8149d2c>)]

HTH
  Siggy

-- 
Siggy Brentrup - bsb at winnegan.de - http://oss.winnegan.de/
****** ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam *******



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Wed Aug 29 16:12:08 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:12:08 -0500
Subject: Two Jython Questions
Message-ID: <toqj9braams57a@corp.supernews.com>

I just got into Jython.  I installed version 2.  After trying it out, I
wanted to import Java classes.  But I noticed that it will not import from
jar or zip files of java classes.  In other words, I had to unzip (unjar)
the classes into a directory where Jython can find it.
1.  Is there a way to make Jython import classes directly from archives
(zip. jar)?  Or is this not supported.
2.  Can Jython save a py script into a java file or is the py script
compiled directly into a .class file?
All in all I am impressed - this program can spoil someone into not writing
a code of Java ever again.
Thanks,
Maan




From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 20 23:09:55 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:09:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
In-Reply-To: <zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108202309010.12670-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Dev Null wrote:

> Yeah, okay.  It looks like just another ordinary little bunny in front of a
> cave's mouth.
>
> But in reality, it's much deadlier.  It's a Python newbie.
>
> Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?
>
> T3/Dev
> --
> "Everybody's on the make.  That's what made this country great!"
> -- New Model Army, "Great Expectations"

First try the tutorial available on-line in the documentation section at
http://www.python.org/, then go from there.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From sill at optonline.net  Tue Aug 21 23:37:00 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:37:00 GMT
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
References: <mailman.998439872.24721.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9o69vq.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:23:01 +1000, Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
>> Interesting.. I think maybe I should put a warning in the README that
>> enabling auto-update may be a security risk if my server is 
>> cracked, so if
>> the system has secrets on it, user must disable the feature. With
>> signatures, even, private signature also can be compromised.. but then
>> again, even if there is no auto-update, someone can just 
>> crack the server
>> and replace tarball with a trojan (and then post an update to 
>> freshmeat
>> for good measure!). 
> 
> Well, no - you don't have the *server* apply the signature - you have that
> already applied to the file to be downloaded. Otherwise any file would
> appear to be a valid download. Sure - someone could crack your server and
> put a trojan on there - but since it isn't signed properly, your app would
> refuse it.
> 
> Tim Delaney

Thanks for the reply..

What would be a good place to read about signatures and such? 

 - Andrei

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug  8 13:08:51 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:08:51 +0200
Subject: windows development in python?
References: <997286691.890518@news2.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <9krrcr$r49$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Use Win32all for pure Win32 programs
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/Extensions/Win32all
The book for programming windows apps with Win32all is
http://www.ora.com/catalog/pythonwin32/
You may use wxPython for a cross platfor support (Windows + Unix/GTK + -
later - Mac OSX)
http://wxpython.org/

"Steinar" <st-aude at online.no> a ?crit dans le message news:
997286691.890518 at news2.cybercity.dk...
> Hi!
>
> I have made a lot of small programs in python, but how do I make windows
> programs?
>
> thanks for all help :)
>
> 'steinar
>
>




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Aug  4 18:05:15 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 01:05:15 +0300
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:

| Is there some way to get aterm (and other terms) window dimension(s)
| without curses?

use google :)

--> 

>  From: Michael Hudson (mwh21 at cam.ac.uk)
>  Subject: Re: Console column Width 
>  Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
>  Date: 2001-03-14 00:48:06 PST 
> 
> 
> "Nathan Heagy" <gervaserules at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > I can't figure out how to learn the (linux) console's column width from
> > within a script? That is, without using curses.
> 
> This works for me:
> 
> def getwidth():
>     return getheightwidth()[1]
> 
> # Eep!  this next should be made rather more portable (ie. fallback to
> # env vars, then tigetstr("lines"), etc).
> def getheightwidth():
>     height, width = struct.unpack(
>         "hhhh", ioctl(0, TERMIOS.TIOCGWINSZ ,"\000"*8))[0:2]
>     return height, width
> 
> Cheers,
> M.



  -- erno


From PaulS at scenicsoft.com  Wed Aug 15 16:54:05 2001
From: PaulS at scenicsoft.com (Paul Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:54:05 -0700
Subject: Regular Expression Help
References: <3B793BD7.1A48D776@isg.de> <9lbh36027g5@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3849BAFD79A7D411A1CF00508B62B5BC7C33A9@exchange-us.scenicsoft.com>

I would suggest the book "Mastering Regular Expressions" published by
O'Rielly.  It is extremely well written and gives a good feel for them.
It is much more enlightening then cookbook approaches.

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleax at aleax.it]
> Posted At: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:46 AM
> Posted To: comp.lang.python
> Conversation: Regular Expression Help
> Subject: Re: Regular Expression Help
> 
> 
> "Tino Lange" <tino.lange at isg.de> wrote in message
> news:3B793BD7.1A48D776 at isg.de...
>     ...
> > I want to parse a continuos file, that contains messages 
> surrounded by
> > nonalphanumerical begin- and end-signs.
> > (BEGIN sign 0x02, END sign 0x03)
> >
> > How can I parse this?
> > A working perl-script would be
> >
> > #!/usr/bin/perl
> > while(<>) { s/\x02/\n/g; s/\x03//g; print; }
> 
> Very fragile, it seems to me -- the \n within a
> message are getting confused with the markers.
> 
> > pattern=re.compile('([0x02] | [0x03])')
> 
> This pattern matches any one of the ASCII characters:
>     0
>     x
>     2
>     3
> although it's chosen a very peculiar way to specify
> that:-).  Plus, it defines a group, so the splitter
> itself would appear in the value from .split, which
> is apparently not what you want.
> 
> > I could only split by "normal" characters as far as I saw in the
> > documentation.
> > Is this right?
> 
> No, you just have to use the \02 etc escapes to
> specify special characters.  Try this split.py:
> 
> import re
> 
> samplestring='able\02baker\03charlie\02delta'
> splitter = re.compile('[\02\03]')
> print splitter.split(samplestring)
> 
> D:\py21>python spli.py
> ['able', 'baker', 'charlie', 'delta']
> 
> This looks like what you want, right?
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 



From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug  3 15:05:42 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:05:42 GMT
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
References: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com>
Message-ID: <aCCa7.66499$EP6.15351473@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"David Lees" <DavidLnonospamm at raqia.com> wrote in message
news:3B6AAD19.4B781BED at raqia.com...
> My Norton Antivirus 2001 with current signatures just reported an
> infection of the 'swig.bat' file on the zipped source files from
> ActiveState Build 210.  The name of the worm(?) is BAT.Silly.B.gen.
Has
> anyone else seen this and does anyone know if it is a valid result
from
> Norton?

It should be quite safe to *look* at the file with WinZip's ascii
viewer or with notepad.
Or use Python to read and display.

Terry J. Reedy




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Aug 16 02:41:13 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 06:41:13 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I think as a work of pure language design, Python is excellent despite
> a few minor warts.  I'm less impressed by the current runtime library
> which I think is less well developed than those of Perl, Java, Common
> Lisp, etc.  Python is supposed to be a "batteries included" language
> but I think it would benefit if the implementers flipped through the
> manuals for Perl, CL, etc. and made Python counterparts to those
> languages' library functions when there was a reason to do so.  That
> would save a lot of experimenting and evolution.  Why reinvent the
> wheel?

That'd probably be helpful. I agree that the standard library could use
some work. That, and the mythical CPAN like 'catalog' that takes forever
in arriving because we take really small steps at the time. :)   

Please note that there's a large amount of third party modules as well,
you can find them here: http://www.vex.net/parnassus
 
> Python's online documentation is also nowhere near as thorough as
> Perl's.  I see on amazon.com that there's a 900 page O'Reilly Python
> book that I can buy, but if I have to buy a separate book to get
> important info, then the distribution isn't really self contained.  So
> this needs improvement too.

I've learned Python and used it fine with the online documentation; I've 
always liked it, and haven't found many gaps, except in some of the
extending/embedding stuff. What needs to be improved? I suppose more module
usage examples would be nice.

[snip]
> I think I'm reacting not as much to language differences as to
> differences in system maturity.  Whenever I write something in Perl or
> CL, and I need to do something like turn an array into a string,

Do you mean a Python list? ''.join(mylist)

> somebody seems to have faced that problem before and it's been taken
> care of in some reasonably thought-out way.  In Python, I often feel
> like I'm doing something that hasn't been done much before.

In part I suspect that's due to your inexperience with the language, but
please keep pointing out the things that are missing. :)

[snip] 
> CL resulted from a huge body of code written in other
> Lisp systems and Perl is at release 5.6 or so now.  Python is at
> release 2.1 or 2.2.  It's probably ahead of Perl version 2.2 but it
> still has a lot of catching up to do.

Lisp has a decades old history, granted, but don't let Python's version
number mislead you. I mean, it's about a decade old by now. While Perl
is half a decade older, it's not as if version numbers really mean a lot. :)

Python-2.2-already-better-than-Perl-2.2-ly yours,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug 13 19:45:28 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:45:28 +0200
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
References: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <oqo9l9.il7.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:23:19 +0000, t.scrace at btinternet.com wrote:
>Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
>per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
>I've run into a problem during installation.  My Linux (Linux PPC 2000)
>came packaged with Python 1.5.2 but I thought I'd upgrade to the latest
>version before I got started.  I unpacked the download and followed all
>the instructions in the README (./configure then make) and everything
>seemed to go fine.
>
>I cannot, however, run Python 2.1.1 using the 'python' terminal command
>and there is no Python man page installed.  Typing 'python' at the
>command prompt brings up the 1.5.2 interpreter.  I can run the 2.1.1
>interpreter by typing the path of the toplevel Python directory and then
>/python (e.g. /home/root/Python-2.1.1/python) but I don't want to have
>to do this every time I start the interpreter and I would also like to
>have the man page installed.
>
>Could this be an problem with my Linux distribution, perhaps something
>to do with the directory structure?  I only started with Linux a few
>days ago so I'm probably way off - I'm making the transition from Mac OS
>to Linux.

You should do a "make install" (as root) in the /home/root/Python-2.1.1/
directory. This will install the Python interpreter, libraries and man pages in
/usr/local. 

It's a good idea *not* work do stuff as root unless it's absolutely necessary,
so now is a good time to create a user account for yourself if you haven't got
one already.

Once you have logged in as normal user, you can type "python" at the shell
again and see if it starts Python 2.1.1. If not, you should add /usr/local/bin
in front of your path. You can do this by adding the following line in the
.profile in the home directory:

export PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH

HTH and happy hacking with Python-and-Linux'ly yours,

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 04:02:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:02:57 +0200
Subject: Slices objects
References: <mailman.996781171.15484.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kdm9d02n6q@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Nadav Horesh" <Nadav at envision.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.996781171.15484.python-list at python.org...
> Isn't it a consistency loop-hole that slices object shortcut --- n:m:k
> is valid only in indexing expression and not elsewhere?

Not really, just a trivial syntax issue -- some colon uses might
be ambiguous if n:m:k was accepted as a slice literal anywhere,
with all variations, and if some variations were only accepted in
brackets [] you'd really have 'consistency loop-holes'.  Anyway,
built-in function slice lets you build slice objects quite easily,
anyway -- slice(n,m,k) is readable and concise (not quite as
concise as n:m:k, but arguably more readable).


Alex





From xistan at yahoo.se  Wed Aug 29 04:43:18 2001
From: xistan at yahoo.se (Christian Lundh)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 01:43:18 -0700
Subject: Troublesome PIL Installation
Message-ID: <b3f07d21.0108290043.67d63770@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've been trying to install PIL using Active-Python 2.1.1 on a HP-UX
10.20 box. (Same problem with plain Python2.1 distribution.) I just
can't get through the installation process. The libImaging library
builds just fine, but then comes the Makefile.pre.in step.

I get the following message when running 'make -f Makefile.pre.in
boot'

rm -f *.o *~
rm -f *.a tags TAGS config.c Makefile.pre python sedscript
rm -f *.so *.sl so_locations
VERSION=`python -c "import sys; print sys.version[:3]"`; \
installdir=`python -c "import sys; print sys.prefix"`; \
exec_installdir=`python -c "import sys; print sys.exec_prefix"`; \
make -f ./Makefile.pre.in VPATH=. srcdir=. \
        VERSION=$VERSION \
        installdir=$installdir \
        exec_installdir=$exec_installdir \
        Makefile
make[1]: Entering directory
`/home/xistan/src/ActivePython-2.1.1-212/Extensions/Imaging'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target
`/home/xistan/lib/python2.1/config/Makefile'.  Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/home/xistan/src/ActivePython-2.1.1-212/Extensions/Imaging'
make: *** [boot] Error 2


When I checked, I noticed that the ~/lib/python2.1/config directory
was not present. Even if I create the config directory I get the same
message. I built the python distribution successfully. Apparently I
must be missing something here. I've searched for answers almost
everywhere, but most people seem to success in this step where I fail.
Does anyone have a clue what this might be all about? Perhaps I am
lacking some files, or rather have them in the wrong place?

Thanks in advance

/Christian Lundh


From inflicted at rocketmail.com  Wed Aug  1 09:35:37 2001
From: inflicted at rocketmail.com (Theasolon)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:35:37 +0300
Subject: newbie
Message-ID: <861gmtojn1b9ohrvp3aqqdh927isp7297r@4ax.com>

I'm newbie to this all, and done some research.
I want to start to learn programming, and I believe Python is 
a good language to start. I have absolutely no experience
in programming, so does anyone here have any tips
for newbies? I've found several tutorials etc, but if anyone
has any tips at all, please mail me. Maybe a good website
to start etc. 
Thanks.



From guido at python.org  Sun Aug 12 13:26:49 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:26:49 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl>
Message-ID: <cphevdfawz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Roeland Rengelink <r.b.rigilink at chello.nl> writes:

> One idiom where I use __class__ assignment is the following
> 
> class State1:
>     def do_something(self):
>         ...do something...
>     def change_state(self):
>         self.__class__ = State2
> class State2:
>     def do_something(self):
>         ...do something else...
>     def change_state(self):
>         self.__class__ = State1

But you can easily do this differently -- e.g. you could do a method
assignment, or you could represent the state by an object.

> Speaking of __new__. Would it be an idea to give __new__() the
> responsibility for calling __init__ on the new instance.

I have thought about this.  It would be less flexible, so I think not.
For example, with the current set-up you can use __new__ to create an
uninitialized instance, bypassing __init__.  If __new__ called
__init__, you couldn't do that.

> BTW, I managed to build a Singleton class, using metaclasses, that gave
> me the right behaviour. This process has become slightly less painfull
> in 2.2, but only slightly ;)

A new metaclasses is a good way to implement a singleton pattern.  A
factory function is also a good way.

> The Singleton pattern is a rather trivial example of course.

(I think the singleton pattern has received way too much exposure for
such a trivial idea.)

> I think one of things I'm looking for here is the ability to fold
> functionality, that I would traditionally put in factory functions,
> into a base class.

To some extent, you can do that -- but you'll have to forego __init__
of you want __new__ to return old instances (or write __init__ so that
it can be called more than once).

> __new__ seems to be ideally suited for that, but I would need to
> have control over calling __init__ too. Having said that, being able
> to play these tricks with metaclasses, is fun too. In a perverse
> sort of way...

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Aug  2 12:16:51 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:16:51 +0200
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org> <20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <cpg0bay3l5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B697CF3.876B9F0A@stroeder.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> We're working on a new site, but it may be a few days -- CNRI's
> backups are so incomplete that we've decided to clone one of the
> mirrors to recover the data.

Kind of Deja vu, isn't it?

Try to get the domain python.org from them.

Ciao, Michael.


From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Sun Aug 26 21:44:15 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:44:15 GMT
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
In-Reply-To: <mailman.998844999.30493.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.998844999.30493.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108262038440.1579-100000@hex.local.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> I've been crunching the aclocal.m4 script (boy are those things ugly...) and
> here's what I've found:
> 
> It searches for the python interpreter in the following order:
>   python, python2.1, python2.0, python1.6, python1.5
> then it runs it and pulls out its version. So you have to link python to the
> correct one, and then run configure.
> 
> I just tested that on my system and it seems to work.

OK, it works now (I know I did it before, but I'll try to forget that
:)...almost.  I can do "from gtk import *", but here is a Python session
that is strange:

Python 2.1.1 (#1, Jul 22 2001, 14:53:37) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gtk
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "gtk.py", line 21, in ?
    import _gtk
ImportError: No module named _gtk
>>> from gtk import *
>>> 

has this happened to anyone else?


-- 
     Q: ``What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and
     a dyslexic?''
     A: ``Someone who lies awake at night wondering if there is a dog''
               -- Linux Fortune

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se  Fri Aug 10 01:05:46 2001
From: r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se (Niklas Frykholm)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 05:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997397175.9298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n6qta.hn2.r2d2@mao.acc.umu.se>

>    Grant> always an appended copy of the original?  (I guess I would hope
>    Grant> that in the case of a string "+=" operation, Python would leave a
>    Grant> little spare space at the end of the new string so multiple
>    Grant> appends would not have to make a copy with _each_ append.)
>
>Repeat the mantra: "strings are immutable, strings are immutable, strings
>are immutable". ;-)

But if the reference count is 1 they could be allowed to mutate internally
without destroying the immutable semantics. But is it worth it? You
would probably have been even more surprised if your program had run fast
when there was only one reference to the string and slow when there was
more than one.

// Niklas


From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sat Aug 11 18:37:52 2001
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:37:52 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk><PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom><3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net>

Hi Alex

Alex Martelli schrieb:
> "Christopher A. Craig" <com-nospam at ccraig.org> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997122491.16083.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> > I had always thought the reason for not having i++ was because, in
> > general, each line of Python code can have at most one lvalue.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean, since 'lvalue' is not a Python
> concept, but...:
> 
>     a=b,c,d=e='wow'

Nice, but seems like "obfuscated Python" to me ;-)

>>> a,b,c,d,e
('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')

I haven't yet figured out how it works. Could you please add parantheses to
the above expression or clarify otherwise how it works?

Stefan


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 11:09:33 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:09:33 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <5285736.frOyU7HbjW@lunix.schabi.de> <9md10h01g1e@enews1.newsguy.com> <r4ti7.111293$B37.2438740@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <9mdnrf02jv9@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:r4ti7.111293$B37.2438740 at news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
> Hi,
>
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> schrub:
>
> >> This lets me to the following conclusions:
> >> - Your Machine speed seems to be in the 500Mhz Athlon class :-)
> >
> > Peculiar indeed -- it's a 300MHz Pentium-2 running NT4 (lots
> > of RAM though, and a very good overall implementation -- it's
> > a HP Kayak box).
>
> An additional point may be that your Python may have be compiled with
> better optimizations.

That is of course quite possible.  It's the stock 2.1.1 version
for Windows as downloaded from comp.lang.python, though.


Alex





From dcinege at psychosis.com  Thu Aug 16 15:56:15 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:56:15 -0400
Subject: Zombies from forked thread process. Why?
References: <mailman.997891588.7217.python-list@python.org> <3b7ba1ba.242252410@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <3B7C255F.54D00CE9@psychosis.com>

Mats Wichmann wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:53:01 -0400, Dave Cinege
> <dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote:
> 
> :Linux 2.4, Debian 2.2/Redhat 7.1 Python 2.1.1 compiled from source.
> :
> :I have a daemon process that watches a directory for files. When
> :some appear it decides what to do with them and then spawns a
> :processor to handle them. To be speedy it detaches (forks) a processor
> :for each 'section'. Eveything run perfect, except that when the processor
> :process returns it leaves a zombie in the process tree:
> 
> Zombies are processes that have completed processing, but whose parent
> has not yet collected their exit status.  Your program  needs to
> "wait" for them to collect the status.

Ahh yes of course.  Hmm, well I don't want to wait for them.
I want to spawn a thread that fork's several processes, and then
have the thread return not caring about the return state of the
children. Might this work by ignoring SIGCHLD, or am I going to need
to double fork it off with a dummy wait process??

Dave



From kwg at renre-europe.com  Fri Aug 24 05:17:00 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:17:00 +0100
Subject: problem using signal module
Message-ID: <998644640.17914.11.camel@lewis>

Using Python 1.52 for hysterical raisens, I'm trying to 
set up a handler to intercept the KILL signal on a RedHat Linux
box.

In the code I have:

import signal 

def handler(signo, frame):
        print signo

if __name__ == '__main__':
        port = 8000
	#straight from the Python Standard Library book...
        signal.signal(signal.SIGKILL, handler)

But this raises the following exception:

  File "./compassxmlrpcserver.py", line 128, in ?
    signal.signal(signal.SIGKILL, handler)
RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')


Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

k.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 26 21:39:03 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:39:03 -0400
Subject: problem with pythonwin32
References: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3B89A4B7.4BAD525D@engcorp.com>

Paul Greer wrote:
> 
> Might sound like a silly question but how do I get a script to run as a
> program from an Icon on windows. When ever I do the DOS box opens and
> immediately closes.

Rename script with extension .pyw instead of .py.  Or create shortcut
to pythonw.exe and add your script as parameter to icon.

> the same in linux I change the py file with chmod -x  and set the path but i
> cant seem to get the program to run by just typing the name?

Add as first line:

#!/usr/bin/python

...or the equivalent path for your system.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From tyler at tylereaves.com  Sun Aug 19 13:43:33 2001
From: tyler at tylereaves.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:43:33 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500
References: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <9VSf7.22527$ZM2.2022430@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Gillou wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I made this change to the Window registry for this and it does not work
> (http error 500)
> 
> Directory
> 
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W3SVC\Parameters\Scrip
> t Map"
> Key ".py"
> Value "C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"
> 
> Did I forget something ?
> 
> TIA
> 
> --Gillou

Make sure you have the folloing (or equivilant) at the top of your CGI.

print "Content-type: text/html" #Or text/plain if serving plain text or 
image/jpeg if serving a jpeg etc.
print ""

That ought to fix it.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 21:42:42 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:42:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
In-Reply-To: <3B8EE66C.2090703@erols.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302136290.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Edward C. Jones wrote:

> Has anyone written in C a merge function for sorted Python sequences? It
> should look like:
>      merged_list, tail1, tail2 = merge(list1, list2)
> where either tail1 or tail2 is []. Suppose tail1 is []. Then tail2 is a
> terminal sublist of list2, the last element of merged_list is the last
> element of list1, and merged_list + tail2 is the merger of list1 and
> list2. Similarly if tail2 is [].
>
> This function would be useful for writing external merge sort programs.
>
> Thanks,
> Ed Jones

Sounds interesting, but... and don't take this the wrong way... I can barely
understand what you're trying to say. An example might help.

Why...

*sigh*

How...

Hmm...

...

It's doable, but tail1 and tail2 would both have to be arguments to the
function as well. Also, what happens if both tail1 and tail2 are []? Also,
what should/will be in the non-empty one?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From mic at oreilly.de  Wed Aug 15 05:26:22 2001
From: mic at oreilly.de (Michael Gerth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:26:22 +0200
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
References: <9lb1ut$a7i$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3B7A403E.3BD0220D@oreilly.de>

"Carsten Schr?der" schrieb:
> May anybody please tell me which GERMAN book suits best for a python
> beginner?

www.python.org has a list of Non-English Python Resources, 
including books and arcticles in German:
http://www.python.org/doc/NonEnglish.html#german

Michael Gerth
O'Reilly Germany


From rnd at onego.ru  Wed Aug 29 09:09:35 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:09:35 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Using exec
In-Reply-To: <15676.010829@storm.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108291702120.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Kerim Borchaev wrote:

> I need to reference an object's method given a string representation
> of it's name. Now I do it like this:
> 
> exec( "c."+MethonName+"()" )

getattr(c, "MethonName")()
 
> or if I need to create an instance of class named ClassName I do this:
> 
> exec( "inst="+ClassName+"()" )

inst = eval(ClassName)()
 
or even

inst = vars()[ClassName]()

(or globals() instead of vars())

> but it seems ugly to me.

Depends on what are you trying to do with these things.
 
> Is it the right thing to do it this way?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
>  Kerim                          mailto:warkid at storm.ru

There is also Russian Python related maillist at python at list.glasnet.ru
You are welcome!

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From rhok2807 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 13:39:06 2001
From: rhok2807 at yahoo.com (AtTheTop)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 09:39:06 -0800
Subject: Don't Miss It!
Message-ID: <200108071434.KAA30994@ns.ssbiobio.co.cl>

I am at the top of a hot new company that is just now starting it's
massive explosion. This company has the greatest compensation plan in the
history of network marketing and you have the opportunity to get in at the
top, but not for long. I am not going to go into great detail in this e
-mail but if you are really serious about making money and you want to be
in the right program that will get you making the big dollars then waste
no time. 
 
Here is what you need to do.
Send an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo.com
and I will send you more information immediately.
 
Once you have done this I will be in contact to get you more information
as quick as possible before you no longer have time to be positioned at
the top. Just ask yourself the following questions:
"Have I ever had the opportunity to be in a mlm program at the top?"
"Would I like to have an opportunity like that?"
 
If your answer to the second question was "YES" then waste no time sending
an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo.com for more information and I will waste no
time getting back to you with the important information that you will need
to get going..
 
This Is Your Chance To Be At The Top For A Change!
 
DO NOT reply to this e-mail for more information because you may never get
it and you certainly do not want that, so send an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo
.com for more information immediately. Just so you know I have my e-mail
account set up so when you send an e-mail for more information you will
immediately receive an e-mail that reads "Yahoo! Auto Response" in the
subject line and do not worry it will not put you on a list of any kind. I
did this to ensure that you get the important information right away and
do not have to wait for me.
 
I Look Forward To Working With You!
Sincerely,
Bill Miller
(540) 347-9055








To be removed from future mailings: 
mailto:rhok2807 at yahoo.com?Subject=Remove 








From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug  6 13:19:33 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:19:33 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [OT] ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and
 action t aken. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <eHvb7.17518$5j7.1153191@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108062115400.26330-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:

>It means that one of the recipients of the Python mailing list has a
>brain-dead mail filter. I tries communicating with the guys who ran one of
>these once, and the response seemed to be "sorry, we can't do anything about
>it".
>
>Censorship is bad. Uncontrollable censorship is terrible!

He-he... I just checked my own quarantine folder. All patches which were
mailed to me are there (I wonder what attracts them. Maybe +++ sequences).
Probably need to tweek that procmail thingie. But I do not mail-back to
tell they are mailing "sensitive content" to me :-|

> Steve
>--
>http://www.holdenweb.com/
>
>
>"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
>news:mailman.997080731.16523.python-list at python.org...
>> Hello!
>>
>> I am sorry for offtopic, but what does it mean??? What is "sensitive
>> content"? "Bad words" (I do not remeber using them or have AI became
>> one of them lately?) or viruses?
>>
>> Roman.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:26:48 +0100
>> From: Virusscan <PDC-DSPACE-SA at dspace.de>
>> To: 'Roman Suzi' <rnd at onego.ru>
>> Subject: ScanMail Message: To Sender,
>>      sensitive content found and action t aken.
>>
>> Trend SMEX Content Filter has detected sensitive content.
>>
>> Place = \Python Mailingliste
>> Sender = Roman Suzi
>> Subject = Re: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
>> Delivery Time = August 05, 2001 (Sunday) 22:26:47
>> Policy = dspace
>> Action on this mail = Quarantine message
>>
>> Warning message from administrator:
>> Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail.
>>
>>
>
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 06, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "A pessimist is never disappointed." _/




From chrishbarker at home.net  Tue Aug 14 19:03:44 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:03:44 -0700
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
References: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <3B79AE50.E12200A7@home.net>

S11001001 wrote:
> 
> I am only a newbie to python, a perl refugee, in fact. I need a DOWNLOADABLE,
> as in one tarball or something, tutorial employing DESCRIPTION. I cannot leave

here you go:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/download.html

After you are done with the tutorial, make sure to browse the library
reference: That's where most of the meat is.

You might want to look at "Dive into PYthon" and other on line
introductions as well. Most of them have a downloadable version if you
poke around.

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 04:26:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:26:27 +0200
Subject: Newbee question here.
References: <mailman.997583602.15499.python-list@python.org> <20010812030438.00855.00003992@ng-cl1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9l5emc0h59@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Patio87" <patio87 at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010812030438.00855.00003992 at ng-cl1.aol.com...
> Thank you alot for your feedback on my question, but I dont really
understand
> mouch of what you aid. Can you say that in stupid languge so i will
understand.
> Im very new to python and programming its self. I have had python for
about two
> days and have all ready read a whole tutorial but if you could repeat what
you
> said in a much easier way I would MUCH apreciate it Thanks

Let's try.  Your original question was, "what exactly does medusa do".  Both
Dave
and Peter Hansen answered well, but if you're very new to programming, you
may need more background in the answer.  So, let's start from way back...

A computer normally does only one thing at a time: it has a "Central
Processing
Unit" (CPU), e.g. an AMD Athlon or Intel Pentium or whatever, that processes
one instruction after the other.  This isn't strictly and literally true
nowadays,
since modern CPUs have a modest degree of "parallelism", some computers
have several CPUs (so-called "multiprocessor" machines), and other smart
chips
that are part of your computer may be doing specialized work while the CPU
is
busy doing something else -- but it's a good first approximation, so let's
take
it as a starting point.

However, we very much want the *appearance* of a computer doing many
things at the same time.  This is mostly the operating system's (OS) job,
and it's
often called "multitasking".  The OS switches between several programs (or
to be more precise, several _processes_) very fast, thus giving the
appearance
that the programs are working in parallel.  The interesting problem,
however,
is when we want just ONE program, that we write, to (appear to) do many
things at once.

Why would we want that?  For several reasons, but, in the context of medusa,
the key reason is getting better overall performance.  Suppose that the task
of our program is sending requests to many servers over the internet: for
each request that is sent, a server will (eventually) send a response, and
our
program must collect the responses and do something with them.

Now, the internet is SLOW in computer terms.  Once a request is sent, it
must take a long trip, gets queued at the server, and eventually the server
gets around to it, prepares the response, and sends it back -- the response
again does the long trip, in reverse.  The delays are technically called the
*latency* of the communication.  They may easily amount to something
very substantial, say one second.  That's a million microseconds, time
enough
for a modern CPU to execute many millions of instructions.  The natural
approach, where each request is sent, then the sender waits until the
response comes back, then the next request is sent, and so on, is a very
serious waste of time -- if we need to send a thousand requests, even the
fastest computer will take 1000 seconds, over a quarter of an hour, if
each latency is of 1 second.

Human parallel: say you want to send a postcard to each of 20 friends and
wait for answering postcards.  Each postcard-round-trip may have a
latency of, say, one week.  If you send one postcard at a time, and wait
for the answer before sending the card to the next friend, you won't be
done for almost five months!  So, what's the solution...?

The solution to the human-parallel problem is pretty clear I hope: you
send all the postcards WITHOUT waiting for answering postcards.  In
a hour or so you're done, THEN you wait (for about a week) and the
answers start to come in.  In a bit more than a week, rather than many
months, the whole task will be done.

And the parallel extends to the computer problem: your program can
send the requests one after the other without waiting for the answers,
THEN wait if need be until all the answers have come in.  That may
take a few seconds for 1000 requests, rather than many minutes.

The problem is how to coordinate the several tasks that the computer
(specifically, the one program you're writing) must be performing "at
once" to make this happen.  In general you can't really send everything
first -- some server may answer fast enough, that the response arrives
while you're still sending other requests, and your program needs to
receive that response and act on it before continuing to send the other
requests.  Moreover, most internet interactions aren't quite as simple
as one-request/one-response, but involve a 'chat' (dialogue, protocol)
where quite a few request/response pairs happen -- this, too, needs
precise coordination.

There are several ways to tackle this, and medusa is one of these ways --
an insanely great and brilliant one, incidentally, with an overall
performance and such a light load on your computer that they must
really be seen to be believed.  It achieves that much by adopting a
very simple model, and your program must adapt to that model, but
it's DEFINITELY worth the effort.  Actually, medusa is oriented to your
program being the server, rather than the client interacting with
multiple servers (although you may use it for that).

Now, if this is all clear to you up to here, we may perhaps get into
more depth about what distinguishes medusa from other approaches
and how you must structure your code to exploit medusa's strengths.

But that's basically what Dave was saying, and pretty well too, though
his answer DID presumably assume you well knew all I've been
trying to explain here (and quite a bit more besides, such as, what
is 'asynchronous' I/O, what is multi-threading, and so on).  Still, if
you're clear with the issues up to this point, and still interested, the
rest is going to be easy to explain, so, let us know!


Alex





From gmcm at hypernet.com  Fri Aug  3 10:33:08 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 14:33:08 GMT
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
References: <mailman.996797285.11079.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F26B6BBC6DCgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.155>

[posted and mailed]

Richard Jones wrote: 

> In the roundup project, I (possibly foolishly) decided to make the
> roundup instances python packages. 

I'd quibble with that "possibly" :-).

[snip]

> The roundup library code, when asked to do something, is passed the 
> instance_home "/home/roundup/issue_tracker". It does:
> 
>    path, instance = os.path.split(instance_home)
>    sys.path.insert(0, path)
>    try:
>        instance = __import__(instance)
>    finally:
>        del sys.path[0]

Which means that roundup will not work with freeze, mac's 
BuildApplication, Installer or py2exe.

If these roundup extensions (is that a fair characterization?) 
were installed as subpackages of roundup, then they might be
workable.

Your later post (using imp.load_module or imp.load_package) is 
pure poison for these tools. 

Don't know anything about imp.load_package, but imp.load_module
is sort of equivalent to:

if sys.modules.has_key('mymodule'):
    reload(mymodule)
else:
    import mymodule

so I'd be careful of side effects in normal Python, too.

 
- Gordon


From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 22:52:23 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:52:23 -0000
Subject: Timer in Tkinter?
Message-ID: <9li0t7+2r7b@eGroups.com>

Thanks! I hadn't seen the after event there before. :)

--------------

Yes, there is. Use the after method:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> def printSomething():
...   print "wibble"
... 
>>> root=Tk()
>>> root.after(2000,printSomething)
'after#2'
>>> wibble

The first argument to after is the number of milliseconds to wait and
the second argument is the function to call. For information like 
this
about Tkinter, I recommend Fredrik Lundh's excellent An Introduction
to Tkinter. It's at:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

I almost always have a local copy open when I'm doing Tkinter
programming.





From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 12:46:43 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:46:43 GMT
Subject: Progress on missing features?
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <kblintkuin7nn2m1pt87hrf8nhti32i87f@4ax.com>

>  - class methods

>The first two could be considered quite important for ma-
>king the language more complete in terms of object orien-
>tation.

If you reframe your thinking and do module-level methods instead,
treating a module as an object, you will have achieved everything
here that you ever need to achieve with a class method.

C//



From goller at tttech.com  Fri Aug 10 05:26:07 2001
From: goller at tttech.com (Alois Goller)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:26:07 +0200
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
	        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
	        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
	        <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>
	        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
	        <mailman.997300936.7249.python-list@python.org>
	        <Xns90F88E98EDD95atodddexterpinioncom@203.2.194.51> <mailman.997374798.10561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B73A8AF.4EA7F27E@tttech.com>

http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/...

Great page(s)!

Info about textpad can be found at http://www.textpad.com. Textpad runs on
all Windows platforms and comes in several languages. Downloads are at
http://www.textpad.com/download/index.html, and the python syntax
definition (I use python4.syn) is at
http://www.textpad.com/add-ons/ntsyn.html 

-- 
Alois Goller


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 20:19:49 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:19:49 -0400
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <f2hh7.13859$54.544237@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7x66be2vk9.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
[ ... ]
>
> The downside of CRL checking is it means every single one of your
> secure site visits gets reported to the CA.

Indeed. Of course in an ideal world access to the CRLs would be distributed
through any number of third parties, and therefore possible to anonymise [?]
to some extent. But that's one of the parts of the infrastructure that's
missing.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From mkent at atlantic.net  Wed Aug 29 14:20:26 2001
From: mkent at atlantic.net (MikeK)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:20:26 -0700
Subject: RFC: Additional functionality for PyUnit
References: <efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <efd753ca.0108291020.5a76ef01@posting.google.com>

Well, my post generated a big yawn, but since I just now ran into a
situation that's a good example of why I would like PyUnit to be
enhanced a bit, I thought I'd share it.

But first, my original post, redux...

mkent at atlantic.net (MikeK) wrote in message news:<efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1 at posting.google.com>...
> Here's a proposed change to unittest.py that I'd like your comments
> on.
> 
> I've found unit testing with PyUnit to be invaluable.  I've gotten to
> the point where writing any Python code without unit tests seems,
> well, perverse.  :)  But there's an inadequacy in PyUnit I keep
> running into that I'd like addressed.
> 
> I often work with code that requires a large amount of work to set up
> a test for, and the setup code takes an appreciable amount of time to
> run.  Often, several tests that are grouped into a test case all
> require a common setup.  Now, PyUnit provides us with setUp() and
> tearDown() methods that we can define for each test case, which is
> good.  The setup() method is run prior to EACH test method of a test
> case, and the tearDown() method is run after EACH test method of a
> test case.  However, when you have several test methods defined in a
> test case, that all need a common setup for the tests, and the setup
> is both work and time intensive, what you really want is to have a
> different and additional set of setup and teardown code that is only
> run ONCE for the test case.
> 
> This would let me run the difficult and long-running setup for a
> series of related tests once.  It would really make unit testing my
> code more doable.


Here's my further example.  I have some code I need to unit test that
basically does a create, append, and modify to some data in a file.

Test Case:

Step 1: create the directory to run the test in.  This is a
global setup step.

Step 2: Test the create code.  Step 1 must have been run.

Step 3: Test the append code.  Steps 1 and 2 must have been run.

Step 4: Test the modify code.  Steps 1 and 2 must have been run.

Step 5: Delete the test directory.  This is a global teardown step.


Step 1 creates the directory that is needed by all of the subsequent
steps.  Step 2 creates a file which is then needed by Steps 3 and 4,
which means that I can't delete the test directory for each test,
unless I want to have to run Steps 1 and 2 as part of the setup for
Steps 3 and 4.

Now, in this example, Steps1 and 2 are simple, cheap, and quick to
run.  But just imagine a situation where Step 1 was 'create an SQL
database with all tables, columns, and relationships', and Step 2 was
'write multimegabytes of setup data to the database'.

So, what I really want is for Steps 1 and 5 to be done 'globally',
that is, I need to create a setup state that persists across all of
the individual tests contained in the test case, then tear down that
setup only when all of the dependent tests have been done.

If PyUnit were to be extended to add a 'globalSetUp' method, run once
before all other test methods in the test case, and a
'globalTearDown', run once after all other test methods in the test
case,
that are in addition to the currently-supported 'setUp' and 'tearDown'
methods, I'd be very happy.

Or am I missing something that would already give me what I want?


From -nospams-terry_01 at msn.com  Tue Aug 21 06:07:21 2001
From: -nospams-terry_01 at msn.com (Terry Slater (@MSN))
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:07:21 -0700
Subject: Python under Windows:  free cl.exe?
References: <13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jsqg7.4046$jB6.299388@news.pacbell.net>

J.Jacob-

I doubt that Visual C++ 6.0 (or any Microsoft C compiler for that matter) is
free...
The closest I found to what you might be looking for is at
http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/prodinfo/previous/downgrade.asp
where current licensees can get previous versions of the MS compiler series.
BTW- there is much more to VC 6.0 than just cl.exe and nmake.exe.

Good luck in your quest


T.Slater


"J.Jacob" <joost_jacob at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3 at posting.google.com...
> subject: Windows Compiler to build Python and related stuff
>
>
> Where can we download the (free commandline version) microsoft C++ 6.0
> compiler cl.exe and nmake.exe?  We need it if we want to do
> extending/embedding C(++) and many 3rd party Python packages want you to
use
> cl.exe and nmake.exe
>
> The cygwin effort of using a free GNU C++ compiler for building Python
looks
> great but there are just too much systems/packages/modules (Python itself
too)
> based on the microsoft compiler with makefiles for nmake and nothing for
the
> Gnu compilers.  Too bad i think !  I would much rather use the Gnu
compiler,
> but...i do not want to have to rewrite tons of makefiles and
installscripts
> all the time and i can not beat microsoft so i have to join.
>
> I read somewhere (forgot where) you can download a free version of the
> microsoft compiler (and you also need nmake.exe, not sure if that comes
with
> it) as "part of the microsoft C#/.NET SDK" if i remember well....i did
look
> around at www.microsoft.com but i could not find it, their website is very
> slow and unclear.  Anybody knows the location ?  There should be a link on
the
> Python download page too, near the source distibution maybe.  I did try to
use
> the microsoft support at their website but uhm....well see for yourself :)
>
>
> regards
>
> Joost Jacob
>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 08:39:24 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 05:39:24 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <j4d75xv972.fsf@porthos.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xu1z9qyyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:
> It doesn't?
> 
> # Complex numbers have a real and imaginary part, which are both
> # implemented using double in C. To extract these parts froma complex
> # number z, use z.real and z.imag.
> 
> sounds as precise to me as it can get. In any case, to report
> documentation bugs, just use the bug tracker at
> sf.net/projects/python.

Yes, I missed that by skipping over the verbiage and looking in the
table of operations below.  z.real and z.imag are missing from the
table.  So I still have a stylistic objection to the manual that I
think should be fixed, but at least the info isn't missing outright
as it first appeared.


From jsnyder at trelis.com  Sat Aug 11 17:39:06 2001
From: jsnyder at trelis.com (jsnyder)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:39:06 -0400
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
Message-ID: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Hello, I'm a newbie at Python and the solution to the following seems to
escape me at the moment:

Running from Pythonwin, I am importing a module and then calling its method.
Then I change the module code and run it again, but the old code still runs,
not the new code.  The only way I have been able to get the new code is to
shut down the interpreter, restart it and reimport the module.  Surely there
is an easier way.

TIA,
Joe Snyder





From opennopri at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 23 01:59:17 2001
From: opennopri at yahoo.com (noprianto)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: know if someone ping me
Message-ID: <20010823055917.44907.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

How do i know if someone ping my system ?

thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From andym at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug 29 17:06:16 2001
From: andym at ActiveState.com (Andy McKay)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:06:16 -0700
Subject: dumb question.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291608350.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <002f01c130ce$74d44870$ae03a8c0@activestate.com>

> print automatically ends the printed text with a \n. You can avoid this in
two
> ways:

Or put a comma on the end of your statement, it puts a space in instead of a
\n.

print 'hello',
print 'world'

Cheers.
--
  Andy McKay.




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 14 11:32:14 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:32:14 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Bug in __imul__
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20010716093616.mikael@isy.liu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141931120.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Hello!

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mikael Olofsson wrote:   <---
>On 13-Jul-2001 Piet van Oostrum wrote:       <---

Where from this ancient letter appeared?
I think, it's a bug in someone's software.

> > >>>>> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> (RS) writes:
> >
> >  RS> There is a joke about americans:
> >
> >  RS> they were confused that Excel give different result from
> >  RS> pocket calculator:
> >
> >  RS> [5] [+] [3] [*] [4] [=]
> >
> >  RS> | 32 |
> >
> >  My pocketcalculator gives 17. But then it's a Dutch one (Philips).
>
>In my experience, you can divide pocket calculators into two types based
>on wheather they have a button labelled '%' or not. Those that do have
>that button return 32, and those who do not have that button return 17.
>And that's regardless of the brand.
>
>It's up to you to decide from which bag you want to pick your pocket
>calculator.
>
>/Mikael

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/




From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 17:42:19 2001
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:42:19 +0100
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org> <cpu1ze9hhy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <00igntcitlquu98trspaicjppgjl76iu4m@4ax.com>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:48:50 GMT, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

>Use of 'yield' as an identifier is not a silent breakage -- there has
>to be at least one defining occurrence of yield when used as a
>variable, function, module or class name, and that will always be a
>syntax error.  This is why I proposed that, *if* there is enough
>popular support, the future generators statement might be
>unnecessary.  But it doesn't look likely.

Let me add my support for the idea of not needing a future statement. I tend to
view features which require a future statement as "not really available yet". So
the future statement makes generators "feel like" they are unavailable until
2.3. But I feel this is a shame, as generators are very powerful, and very
useful - and I'd rather see them available (and hence mainstream) as soon as
possible.

Backward compatibility is certainly important, more so to some users than
others, but this is not a particularly disastrous change - in the worst case, a
simple search-and-replace operation would probably fix 99.9% of all code where
there is an issue. And as you say, the breakage is not silent (excluding silly
contrived examples).

Paul.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 12:40:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:40:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Why use Python?
In-Reply-To: <9mj3is01ma6@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291239170.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Yes, unless of course you pirate it, use free editions
> (such as VBScript), or use the VB that's inside some
> application that you want to/have to use anyway, such
> as Visio, Word, Autocad, and so on, and so forth.
>
>
> Alex

I refute that there is any such thing as VB for free; even if you don't pay
money, you'll still pay with your sanity and your soul.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 05:46:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:46:17 +0200
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
References: <MPG.15de957b96d43b0e989691@rider> <bR0d7.25727$c8.7496696@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l2v4a0fbu@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:bR0d7.25727$c8.7496696 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
    ...
> As I understand it, 'rexec' is only safe if you don't pass in any unsafe
> objects.  Classes, functions, and class instances are all generally
unsafe.

Yes, for some definition of 'generally'.

> What you need is 'Bastion', which (as I understand it) is a safe wrapper
> around an unsafe object.  I assume 'Bastion' is implemented as a C
extension
> type, which gives it data hiding capabilities that Python class instances
> don't have.

Nope, it's pure Python -- see the Bastion.py source file in the Lib
directory of your Python installation.  The key is that code subject
to restricted execution (untrusted code) is denied by the Python
interpreter itself some key introspection/reflection abilities, so
BastionClass can simply use __getattr__ and hide whatever object
attributes are wanted, and the untrusted code can't bypass that.


Alex





From grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 21:50:14 2001
From: grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com (Jeff Grimmett)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 18:50:14 -0700
Subject: Windows and file input in Python
References: <9ml0uf$cuv$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61@posting.google.com>

> I have to sometimes use python under windows 98. It is python 2.1. Using
> command.com is really not the way I want to go in 21 century ;-(

Eh, at least it works with Python. :-)

On the matter of not finding files: probably you need to do this in
Idle before loading the script:

>>> import os
>>> os.chdir('wherever-you-want')

Here are two other solutions that might suit you better:

1. Get PythonWin from www.activestate.com, or, just install the whole
Python package from them -- it will include PythonWin. This is an
integrated development environment with an excellent folding editor
and an interactive command line.

2. Get Cygwin from Cygnus Solutions -- it includes a BASH shell for
Windows. The BASH shell offers more interactivity and better command
line editing of commands.

I generally use the two in conjunction with each other.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 18:28:46 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 15:28:46 -0700
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998946651.15335.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xae0lnnmp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> writes:
> Isn't the simplest solution just to put all 300 digits on one line ? 

Yes, but that makes the code look ugly in an editor.

> How many of these do you expect to have ?

Not very many.  Otherwise more than a few hundred bytes of .pyc would
be affected.

> Does someone have to type them all in without error, or are they
> generated ? 

They're pasted from an existing online document.


From mhoward at mahoward.com  Tue Aug 14 18:46:23 2001
From: mhoward at mahoward.com (Michael A. Howard)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:46:23 -0700
Subject: Need Help with COM
Message-ID: <9lc9t0$fo4$1@news.apple.com>

I'm coming to Python from VB and trying to understand how the COM stuff
works.

I have a COM server (not written by me) that supports in VB the call
oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
Which returns the caption of this item as I can see it from the object
browser in VB

The same call in python returns:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'Caption'

If I use Excel as an example i.e.
o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1).Caption
I get   u'&File'
Which is also what I get in VB (well &File anyway)

So what am I doing wrong?





From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 10:06:45 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:06:45 -0500
Subject: Two Jython Questions
References: <toqj9braams57a@corp.supernews.com> <3b8dac97.54891359@news.laplaza.org> <tot4pm9ol6u5f0@corp.supernews.com> <3b8eb34e.122146247@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <tov6jbrtibgpc8@corp.supernews.com>

Mats
I figured this thing out and it is all running smoothly on Win ME and Win NT
using Sun JAVA SDK ver 2.  It had all to do wih finding jar files.  And you
are right :)  Jython can find its jar file, but JAVA can not unless we tell
it to.
Making a setting in CLASSPATH = .;c:\jython\jython.jar
resolved the whole thing, but at aleat I can see now the workings of finding
java libs, jar files, and zip files to switch between Sun and Microsoft
compilers.
Jython is really quite something.
Maan

"Mats Wichmann" <mats at laplaza.org> wrote in message
news:3b8eb34e.122146247 at news.laplaza.org...
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:23:50 -0500, "Maan M. Hamze"
> <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
>
> :Mats
> :I figured out how to run things and how to set the path of classes.
> :However, I am still running into one problem.  I am compiling a test.py
file
> :into test.class using jythonc and keep getting this error on running the
> :class file:
> :Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Test
>
> I believe this is the same problem: the java runtime isn't finding the
> jarfile. the jython script has it built in, so it works when you type
> "jython" but that doesn't help when you run "java test"
>
>
> Mats Wichmann
>




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 20 02:03:24 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:03:24 -0700
Subject: Overflow-less integer arithmetic?
Message-ID: <3B80A82C.2060A310@alcyone.com>

I'm working on an application where I need arithmetic to be done modulo
2^32 (actually, often it will be 2^n with n < 32).  Python (very nicely)
throws OverflowErrors when an arithmetic calculation breaks these
bounds, but this is one rare case where I'd prefer it not to happen. 
Essentially I'd like things to behave just as if you had a signed 32-bit
two's-complement number.

What is the standard Pythonic way to accomplish this?  The obvious thing
(catching the OverflowError and then doing the computation in longs and
converting back) didn't seem to work, since the obvious bitmask didn't
do the job, since obviously the bitwise and operator doesn't have quite
the same meaning for longs:

max at oxygen:~% python
Python 2.0 (#2, Apr  4 2001, 19:28:30) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> i = 2147483648l # one greater than the largest int
>>> i
2147483648L
>>> i & 0xffffffff
2147483648L # whoops

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It's just another day / And nothing's any good
\__/ Sade
    Alcyone Systems / http://www.alcyone.com/
 Alcyone Systems, San Jose, California.


From titus at caltech.edu  Fri Aug 17 03:57:32 2001
From: titus at caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:57:32 -0700
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
In-Reply-To: <01081717334601.02447@ike>; from richard@bizarsoftware.com.au on Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 05:33:46PM +1000
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <01081717334601.02447@ike>
Message-ID: <20010817005732.A12915@caltech.edu>

On Fri, Aug 17, 2001 at 05:33:46PM +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
-> On Friday 17 August 2001 17:05, Titus Brown wrote:
-> > 	2) the input strings to the de/compress functions can be modified
-> > 	   outside of the zlibmodule while the zlibmodule functions are
-> > 	   working on them.
-> 
-> I naively ask whether this is actually true... aren't python strings 
-> immutable? Unless someone plays with them under the covers in C, that is (in 
-> which case they're being very naughty and deserve what they get).

Hooray!  It looks like you're right; I naively took a look at the zlibmodule
code and assumed that functions like _PyString_Resize meant otherwise, and
promptly forgot about the issue.  I just read the docs on it, tho, and...
there's an explicit warning about using that function!

This simplifies matters considerably!

thanks,
--titus, who will do better with reading the docs next time...

PS Interesting, it looks like '+=' does some behind-the-scenes skullduggery
when applied to strings... since 's = t = "a"; t += "b"; print s' doesn't
do what I would have thought, given that += is supposed to "modify in place",
I thought.



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 13:09:21 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:09:21 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <3B6C22DC.7060509@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <otaomt8mh72m48hjc6ru2eu9ms1uo9nogr@4ax.com>

>Well, never one to simply take someones word I have performed a small 
>scale experiment to test your previous statement. I conclude that it 
>needs a small modification. It isn't strictly true that you can't pick 
>your friends nose, but it is surely true that you shouldn't.

I'm not sure about that. Perhaps your approach was all wrong. I recommend
the following experiment. Approach 100 women at random in your local mall.
Kindly ask permission to pick their nose. Report your results back here.

:)

C//



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug 16 12:50:42 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:50:42 +0200
Subject: Newbie question Python on Windows ME
References: <d136f764.0108160839.3cd24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lgtam$i8a$1@norfair.nerim.net>

The code executes then exits so fast you can't see the console output.
Either launch a console, cd to your script directory and:
c:\Ptyhon21\python myscript.py

Alternate solution: end your script with this line :
dummy = raw_input('done!')

Will wait you hit return

"stefan" <s.franke at flowstate.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
d136f764.0108160839.3cd24e8 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I started to read about Python today in my lunchbreak... I downloaded
> Python-2.1.1.exe from www.python.org, ran the installer and played
> around with the DOS-promt-like looking window (the one with the
> ">>>"). As a next step I put my Python code into a file with the
> ending ".py". Then I clicked on the little snake icon of this file but
> actually nothing happened apart from the DOS-promt-like looking window
> popping up for one second and then closing again.
>
> Should these files be executed in some other way? I couldn't find
> anything on this issue in the tutorials so I hope that someone here
> can help me.
>
> Are there any tutorials for beginners on the internet that are
> specifically written for Windows?
>
> Thank you,
> Stefan




From Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com  Tue Aug 14 15:41:00 2001
From: Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com (Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:41:00 -0500
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <008F55C8.N22121@rsmi.com>

>I don't get what you're trying to say. The reason, in retrospect, that I
>don't buy into the whole idea of mass ownership of Python is that the
>notion that our votes are supposed to dicate how a group of open
>source programmers are going to behave is ridiculous. We don't
>pay a red cent for Python, and don't really therefor have a right to
>dictate its direction.

All I am pointing to is that in fact someone who has devoted hundreds or
thousands of hours of free time to the Python development effort has 
exactly the same vote that you and I do on, for example, the acceptance 
of PEP238.  You talk of a THEY as if THEY were a unitfied body with
a consensus point of view - and it is that consensus view that gets
implemented.
I'm sure that there is some truth to that - that Guido considers hard the 
objections of people who have made concrete contributions.  Despite
how it might sound, I'm not trying to demonize anyone or anything.  But in the
end it is only HIM, not THEY who decides what is implemented.  And I
don't mean to be editorializing on that fact.  

I *am*  trying to influence some change in culture.  The Guido "knows
all but moves in strange ways" ethic is not one I am comfortable participating
in, and I am not sure why my choices would be to accept it or not
participate. 

And it would be hopeless to argue that that hasn't been the acceptable 
position for someone left with their mouth agape at some of what they see
and hear going on.

ART
 



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Mon Aug 13 16:45:58 2001
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:45:58 -0600
Subject: simple question about classes
Message-ID: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F6C9DB3@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Scott Hathaway [mailto:scott_hathaway at riskvision.com]
> 
> If I have a class, is there a way to iterate through the name 
> of all of the
> properties (public variables) of the class which would 
> include public vars
> that were added at the time of instantiation?
> 
> class a():
>     getPublicVars(self):
>         # loop here that prints each variable and it's value
> 
> 
> myClassVar = a()
> myClassVar.color = 'red'
> myClassVar.style='antique'
> myClassVar.getPublicVars()

>>> class C:
...     def __init__(self):
...         self.x = 1
...         self.y = 2
...
...     def getVars(self):
...         for k,v in self.__dict__.items():
...             print 'self.'+k, '=', v
...
>>> c = C()
>>> c.z = 'hello world'
>>> c.getVars()
self.z = hello world
self.x = 1
self.y = 2
>>>

whether-that-makes-them-public-is-up-to-you'ly y'rs
-- bjorn



From tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk  Sun Aug  5 11:56:54 2001
From: tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk (Tony McDonald)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:56:54 GMT
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
Message-ID: <tony.mcdonald-C54A39.16563305082001@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi,

This is on an Enterprise 3500 - UltraSparc at 400MHz (ie a big box)

% uname -a
SunOS caduceus-temp 5.8 Generic_108528-07 sun4u sparc 
SUNW,Ultra-Enterprise
% file /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/bin/python:  ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1, 
dynamically linked, not stripped
% python
Python 2.1 (#3, Jul 18 2001, 22:05:54) 
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from test import pystone
>>> pystone.main()
Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 2.38
This machine benchmarks at 4201.68 pystones/second

Whereas this is on a TiPB at 500 MHz (ie a little portable box)

% file /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/local/bin/python: Mach-O executable ppc
% python
Python 2.1 (#4, 05/17/01, 18:34:21) 
[GCC Apple DevKit-based CPP 6.0alpha] on darwin1
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from test import pystone
>>> pystone.main()
Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 1.55
This machine benchmarks at 6451.61 pystones/second
>>> 

Another test on a 700MHz PIII gave a pystones of around 10,000.

Can anyone tell me why this is so, and more importantly, what I can do 
to compile up python to run faster on Solaris?

cheers
Tone.


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 03:59:00 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:59:00 +0200
Subject: [Q/newbie] Converting object names to strings and back?
References: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9lt4c601feq@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Adam Twardoch" <list.adam at twardoch.com> wrote in message
news:to3pa38u7j4690 at news.supernews.com...
    ...
> My question: how can I determine the name of a particular object, or,
> precisely, convert it to a string?

In general, you can't.  The Python FAQ's explain it well, e.g. at:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.097.htp
(I suggest reading the FAQ's could be very instructive).

> And then, when I have a string (for
> example "MyObject.property"), how can I make Python find the object with
> that particular name?

That's easy (although unlikely to be what you should really be
doing) -- eval(thestring) will evaluate any expression to which
string variable thestring refers, and a name is just a special
case of expression.  Your example is not a name, by the way: it
is the application of the attribute-access operation to an
object (of which you do indeed supply just the name) and an
attributename -- if you used a solution that does indeed only
work for names, it would fail for your example, but eval, which
does completely unrestricted expression, would work.

Of course, it's horribly dangerous to evaluate just any expression
unless you're *REALLY* sure about where it's coming from -- which
is part of why it's quite unlikely that this is what you should
really be doing.


> I know that in Perl, constructs like $$variable can help.

It's rightfully forbidden when you use Perl in the recommended
way (use strict), if I recall correctly.  Not quite as
dangerous as eval, but still quite iffy, and a horrid
programming practice.  Python doesn't have a mode in which
you're forbidden horrid programming practices (it does have
a restricted-execution mode where you can forbid untrusted
code from doing damage, but the untrusted code can still be
written horrendously:-): Python gives you all the tools you
need to program well, and it's then up to you to use them.


> I'm just starting with Python, so please have mercy. And, I must use Py
> 1.5.2 for Windows.

That's a pity (not the Windows part, as Python runs just as
well on Windows as on Unix-like systems -- the 1.5.2 part,
which means you're forced to use a release that's years
old when solid, faster, bright 2.1.1 has been out for
quite a while...!).  But it doesn't affect the specific
tasks you're asking about in this post.


Alex





From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 02:59:25 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:59:25 GMT
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
References: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com> <8YEj7.189437$g_3.36890426@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9mnbvu$t1t$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <hBGj7.519923$lq1.106542361@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Formalin
maybe I was in a bad mood earlier trying to figure out the ins and outs of
jython :O
But really, check the CGI docs at python.org and try to configure it.  Their
is one on using Python and IIS with NT.  Try it, and if you run into any
troubles ask and I'll help you out.
Maan

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mnbvu$t1t$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> ok,thank u
>
>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 11 05:09:49 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:09:49 +0100
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com> <G0RgKIAEUAd7Ew$e@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <1uYc7.13554$e5.1922661@newsb.telia.net>
 <xipNPKAljGd7Ew5V@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LrHTtJAdZPd7EwvO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <xipNPKAljGd7Ew5V at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>In article <1uYc7.13554$e5.1922661 at newsb.telia.net>, Fredrik Lundh
><fredrik at pythonware.com> writes
>>> >>Has anyone managed to use PIL and win32com to do screen captures?
>>
>>get grabscreen.zip from
>>
>>    http://effbot.org/pil
>>
>></F>
>/ta F-Bot I'll check it out
>-robotically yrs- 
>Robin Becker
Thanks, that works well!
-- 
Robin Becker


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 10:26:54 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:26:54 +0100
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
References: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9md4d401l6k@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9okjns.du8.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <wx09bJAuili7EwQd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <slrn.pl.9okjns.du8.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda>, Marcin 'Qrczak'
Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> writes
>Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:37:39 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:
>
>> If your C compiler for FreeBSD doesn't have a wchar.h in a standard
>> include directory, and you can upgrade to one that does, this might
>> indeed help.
>
>AFAIK Unicode support in FreeBSD is nonexistant or totally broken.
>In particular even if wchar.h is present, wchar_t is not Unicode.
>
Yes I think it's just now coming in. I guess the people that package up
the new versions work on really up to date systems. I can turn off the
alleged support in include/python2.1/config.h, but that sort of hack
always leaves me with nagging doubts etc etc.
-- 
Robin Becker


From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 31 12:01:07 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 09:01:07 -0700
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
References: <mailman.999116565.21504.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mocc301q7f@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.999116565.21504.python-list at python.org>, "Tim says...
>
>[Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]
>> I am using the following blecherous code to do a conversion from
>> char*s in the form "<a>=<b>" to the form {'<a>':(tuple of '<b>'s), ...}.
>> I'm sure that there's probably a more straightforward way out there.
>> Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can simplifiy this?
>
>Ya, write it in Python -- coding in C is a PITA.  If you need to do it in C
>for speed (whatever), don't be afraid of gotos!

I've been developing a theory that people who use 8 spaces per indent (via hard
tabs) become less afraid of gotos than the rest of us <wink>.

>The Python implementation
>has many examples of this, jumping to an error label at the end when things
>go wrong "in the middle".

That's a good reason.  (I've also found gotos quite helpful in converting
Fortran to C <wink>.)

I can't say I use them much, but I _am_ a big fan of the "almost-goto"
constructs like return, break, and continue.  In particular, I like to do early
returns to avoid needless nesting.

Coincidentally, I thought I'd seen everything there was to see about gotos until
just yesterday, when I saw a new form that I had never ever seen (or even
thought of) before.  It goes to this:

   bool foo()
   {
       bool flag = false;
       for (;;)
       {
           if (x)
           {
              flag = true; 
              break;
           }

           do_stuff;

           if (y)
           {
               flag = true;
               break;
           }

           do_more_stuff;

           break;
       }

       return flag;
   }

whereas any sensible person would have done:

   bool foo()
   {
       if (x)
          return true;

       do_stuff;

       if (y)
          return true;

       do_more_stuff;

       return false;
   }

or maybe even used gotos <wink>.  This construct occurred repeatedly throughout
the code.  The author considered it to be a "feature".

a-drawing-should-have-no-unnecessary-lines-and
   -a-machine-should-have-no-unnecessary-parts-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 31 22:23:09 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:23:09 +1000
Subject: Stackless Python and Python 2.x
References: <Xns910BA52745692michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns910D5488B669Cmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3B8EF2E6.CAEB05CC@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3B90468D.E64ECCB7@student.gu.edu.au>

Greg Ewing wrote:
> 
> Michael Abbott wrote:
> >
> > I've seen Guido van Rossum quoted as being against this because it's
> > incompatible with the Java Virtual Machine (as I understood it).
> 
> The other reason is that, by all accounts, if anyone
> other than Christian Tismer tries to do anything with
> the core code, their brain explodes.

Wasn't a big part of the generator addition that it supplies a
simpler-to-understand solution to the majority of continuations
solutions?
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug  7 04:21:22 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 08:21:22 GMT
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>
Message-ID: <6yNb7.78753$EP6.18929455@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Ville Vainio" <vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi> wrote in message
news:yox3d74785g.fsf at karhu.tp.spt.fi...
> Which makes me think - why is there no linked list type?

We seem to do quite well without it.

> I don't care if I had to explicitly express that I want linked list,
> it just should be there.

If you have application where really advantageous, you can define
linked list class.  Then you decide whether singly or doubly linked,
and whether to use cdr/car vs. first/rest.  You can then derive
subclass with enforced limitation on item types.

You can also implement with lists (len=2 or 3) and functions.

Or you can write private C extension type (just don't expect it to be
added to standard) as others have done with other datatypes (example:
kjbuckets, kjsets).

>Or is the concept problematic in Python, for some reason?

There must be dozens of special data structures that *could* be added.
Python comes with a few general types, efficiently implemented, that
allow creation of others.  Also has relatively easy to use extension
mechanism.

Terry J. Reedy







From drs at labs.agilent.com  Fri Aug 10 10:40:56 2001
From: drs at labs.agilent.com (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:40:56 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B73F278.2CE0C973@labs.agilent.com>

That works.  Thanks muchly.
	David

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "David Smith" <drs at labs.agilent.com> wrote in message
> news:3B72DCBA.C99465BC at labs.agilent.com...
>     ...
> > class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
> > bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
>     ...
> > Is there a way for __copy__ to create a bare object of the same class,
> > which it can proceed to populate?
> 
> Piece of cake:
> 
> class Fleep:
>     def __init__(self, x, y, z):
>         print 'lots',x,'of',y,'work',z
>     def __copy__(self):
>         class Temp: pass
>         newbie = Temp()
>         newbie.__class__=self.__class__
>         print "very little work"
> 
> Alex


From guido at python.org  Thu Aug  9 21:09:57 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:09:57 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com> <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <cpsnf090x8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> :"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997328534.2490.python-list at python.org>...
> :>
> :> The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but the
> :> change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be a bad
> :> incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this reason I'm
> :> going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().
> :> 
> :> although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim

> On 9 Aug 2001 08:58:32 -0700, paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote:
> 
> :Absolutely not! I was initially surprised that dir(object) didn't give
> :the methods as well as the attributes, and disappointed that
> :dir(object.__class__) doesn't state the methods available on that
> :object. 
> ....
> : Instead, that
> :is left up to the programmer, unless he/she decides upon using the new
> :introspection module(s).
> :
> :Perhaps there should be a well-known and widely published way of doing
> :this kind of thing, but dir is a well-known function. It's a shame
> :about dir([])...

xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) writes:

> I think so too.  Introspection seems to me to be a feature that should
> be easier, rather than harder, to get to.  dir() has done part of the
> that job, albeit inconsistently (funny, it didn't seem inconsistent
> after I got used to it).  I'd be sad to have less information
> available to dir().   I should warn that I'm coming at this mostly
> from the idea of teaching Python, which is something I do (less often
> than I'd like, sadly).

Hm.  How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can
reasonably deduce)?

Like this:

def dir(x):
    if isinstance(x, type):
        d = {}
        classattrs(x, d)
    else:
        if hasattr(x, '__dict__'):
            d = x.__dict__.copy()
        else:
            d = {}
        classattrs(x.__class__, d)
    k = d.keys()
    k.sort()
    return k

def classattrs(c, d):
    d.update(c.__dict__)
    for b in c.__bases__:
        classattrs(b, d)

>>> print dir([])
['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', '__delitem__', '__eq__', '__ge__', '__getattr__', '__getitem__', '__getslice__', '__gt__', '__iadd__', '__imul__', '__init__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__repr__', '__rmul__', '__setitem__', '__setslice__', 'append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort']
>>>

Note that print dir(list) would print the same.  Just an idea...

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 16:44:51 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:44:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <1a517b5.0108281212.1cb930c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281635410.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 28 Aug 2001, Bryan Olson wrote:

> I've done a Google search and found that others have had the same
> problem I'm having.  Any upgrade of Python, even from 2.0 to 2.1, breaks
> extension modules.  I'm working on MS-Windows, and the extension cannot
> find python20.dll, which is not surprising because it was replace with
> python21.dll.  I suppose I could put back the old DLL, but I don't know
> what that would do, since the rest of the system is using the newer DLL.
>
> I don't the workings of Windows DLL's are to blame; Unix shared
> libraries would have the same problem.

Actually they don't. In the Unix version the .so's link back to the
executable; presumably they don't do that in Windows. Does anyone know why?

> If the interface to Python extensions actually changed, then certainly
> there's no avoiding updating the extensions.  The current system is much
> worse; any upgrade to Python breaks extensions, in many cases
> needlessly.
>
> I don't think that giving different versions of dynamic libraries the
> same name, such as "python.dll", is a good idea.  It would just cause
> other problems.

Not nearly as many problems as 5 different versions of msvcrt40.dll ;)

> So here's my proposal for a solution: don't make the extension load the
> library.  When the interpreter loads the extension, it should give it a
> pointer through which it can find all the library objects. The pointer
> could just be the system-dependent library pointer/handle, but more
> elegant would be a table of functions, defined the same on all
> platforms.

What should happen is that the extensions under Windows should have the same
behaviour as extensions on Unix; they should reach back to the executable for
run-time bindings. IIRC, the DllMain() function is passed the handle of the
executable when the DLL is loaded; at that point the bindings should be done.

Obviously this makes the DllMain() function a little more complex than it can
be, but such is life.

> I think the change could be made without forcing code changes to
> extensions (though of course they'd need one last re-compile).  We just
> have to change the statically-linked stubs library.  We need one
> function that always gets linked in, and that the interpreter will call
> with the function-table pointer.  The utility functions that the library
> offers would be stubs that get the function pointers from the table, and
> call through them.
>
> Of course we should think this through and try to find a way to
> negotiate versions, so that extensions last as long as possible.
>
>
> Is this idea PEP-worthy?
>
> --Bryan

I think that making Python behave the same under different operating systems
is _always_ PEP-worthy, but that's just me.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From dwig at advancedmp.net  Fri Aug  3 13:43:15 2001
From: dwig at advancedmp.net (Don Dwiggins)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 10:43:15 -0700
Subject: Problems creating an app with the McMillan installer
Message-ID: <uae1h59ak.fsf@advancedmp.net>

I have a little wxPython script that I want to package as an .exe.  I've
tried both py2exe and McMillan's installer, and was defeated both times.

This message is about my experience with the McMillan installer, v. 4a2
(with ActiveState Python 2.0.0.203).  I've included quite a bit of the gory
details, hoping that something may point to the problem.

The app uses wxPython (2.3) and the win32com client functions, in particular
Dispatch and gencache.EnsureDispatch.  It works fine when interpreted
directly.

Following the documentation as best I could, I wound up with the following
config file after running Standalone.py:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
[MYCOLLECT]
type= COLLECT
name= dist_PartfinderMaint
bindepends= PartfinderMaint.py
misc= MYSTANDALONE
debug = 0
excludes = 

[MYSTANDALONE]
type= STANDALONE
name= PartfinderMaint.exe
script= e:\Unix\Python\Installer\support\setupcom, PartfinderMaint.py
zlib = APPZLIB
userunw = 1
support = 0
debug = 1

[APPZLIB]
name= PartfinderMaint.pyz
dependencies= PartfinderMaint.py
excludes= dospath, posixpath, macpath
----------------------------------------------------------------------

After building, if I run "PartfinderMaint.exe -v' in the same directory as
the .cfg file, I get just the following:
   Start
   Opening self
   Unpacking binaries
   Manipulating evironment
   Loading python
   d:\Sandbox\wxPython\python20.dll
   C:\TEMP\python20.dll

If I descend into the dist_PartfinderMaint directory and run the same thing,
I get a lot of output, including a traceback that ends with this:

File "e:\python20\win32com\client\gencache.py", line 131, in GetClassForCLSID
 mod = GetModuleForCLSID(clsid)
File "e:\python20\win32com\client\gencache.py", line 189, in GetModuleForCLSID
 makepy.GenerateChildFromTypeLibSpec(sub_mod, info)
File "e:\python20\win32com\client\makepy.py", line 294, in GenerateChildFromTypeLibSpec
 __import__("win32com.gen_py." + dir_name + "." + child)
File "e:\Unix\Python\Installer\support\imputil.py", line 127, in _import_hook
 return importer._finish_import(top_module, parts[1:], fromlist)
File "e:\Unix\Python\Installer\support\imputil.py", line 220, in _finish_import
 bottom = self._load_tail(top, parts)
File "e:\Unix\Python\Installer\support\imputil.py", line 313, in _load_tail
 raise ImportError, "No module named " + fqname
ImportError: No module named win32com.gen_py.{GUID}._Recordset

However, there is a subdirectory matching this:
   ls -R win32com/
   win32com:
   gen_py/

   win32com/gen_py:
   {GUID}/  __init__.pyc
   __init__.py				     dicts.dat

   win32com/gen_py/{GUID}:
   _Recordset.py  __init__.py  __init__.pyc

(I've replaced the actual GUID string by "{GUID}" for readability.)

After the "ImportError" come many "cleanup" messages, including:
   # cleanup[2] win32com.gen_py.{GUID}

Any thought on why the gen_py stuff gets built, then can't be found?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Don Dwiggins                    "Solvitur Ambulando"
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net




From opennopri at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 24 00:26:33 2001
From: opennopri at yahoo.com (noprianto)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: port check
Message-ID: <20010824042633.23503.qmail@web14907.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello pythonia,

I learn to make a program acts like port checker, so
if someone try to connect by by tcp, i always know.

So far, i have made a program that only can check for
one port. This is my code is you care :

#!/usr/bin/env python

import socket
import sys
import traceback

PORT = 10000

def main():
	serverSocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
socket.SOCK_STREAM)
	serverSocket.bind((socket.gethostname(),PORT))
	serverSocket.listen(5)
	while 1:
		conn, addr = serverSocket.accept()
		print addr , ' connected at port ' , PORT
	conn.close()
		



if __name__=='__main__':
	main()
	
------------------------------------------------------
But when i change PORT to 21 for example, it said
permission denied. I heard that port below 1024 is
restricted only for root. I'm using linux.

So anyone can help me how to make a little port
scanning ? Is it hard ? Please give me a little codes,
i'm newbie but serious !

You have my thanks.
__nopri


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Aug 25 10:49:26 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 07:49:26 -0700
Subject: UserDict
References: <mailman.998511753.2023.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m8dtm$fkn$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.998511753.2023.python-list at python.org>,
Matthew D. Wood <woodm at equire.com> wrote:
>
>Are you allowed to overwrite the __init__ method of a class that 
>inherits from UserDict.UserDict ?

Yes, but you should call UserDict.__init__() in your __init__ unless you
really know what you're doing.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From alice at homegiant.d2g.com  Fri Aug 31 04:14:00 2001
From: alice at homegiant.d2g.com (Alice Lin (Home Giant))
Date: 31 Aug 2001 16:14:00 +0800
Subject: Furniture Hardware
Message-ID: <E15cjPA-0006nw-00@mail.python.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010831/718db034/attachment.html>

From itamarst at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 18:26:10 2001
From: itamarst at yahoo.com (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 15:26:10 -0700
Subject: Another two examples of using changing classes
Message-ID: <637b94bc.0108131426.48c84b3d@posting.google.com>

Changing classes at runtime can be useful at times, and I've done it
myself at times. And since Twisted uses it and I intend to use Twisted
for my server architecture, that's a 3rd use as well.


== 1 ==
I have a proxy class that forwards network requests to a remote
server. When it gets disconnected, it still needs to respond to
commands, albeit with failure responses.

However, if a certains commands are given to the instance it can
reconnect and start working normally again.

The other way to do this is to have two classes - Connected and
Disconnected, and the instance switches between the classes to change
the way it works. Doing this without changing classes would require
having a frontend instance and a changing backend instance, and double
the number of function calls done with every operation.


== 2 ==
Consider a (SocketServer) network server that supports multiple
protocols on the same port. When a connection is opened the first
message tells the handler what protocol to use, and the handler then
changes its class to the appropriate handler class.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  9 10:26:46 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:26:46 -0400
Subject: I want to disect a irc client's source
References: <iWwc7.6402$Ke7.383993@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <M2xc7.1412$Nz2.21615@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iWwc7.6402$Ke7.383993 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> I got the source code for a irc client i used but it was written in
> mircosoft visual C ++ 6.0. Does that matter? If anyone has experience in
> this field you can check out the source code yourself and tell me what you
> think.
>
>
> http://www.dircscripts.com/source.php
>
There's 3.5MB of source code. It may take you some time to understand it.

The major problem is that C++ and Python are quite different styles of
language. If you don't already know C++ I would definitely look for
something else.

regards
 STeve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug 23 14:56:12 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:56:12 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B8551CC.846C141B@home.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Well, yes, applications for which Python is too slow don't get written
> in Python.  But if Python were faster, it would be useable for more
> applications, always a good thing from a Python advocacy perspective,
> I would have thought.

Absolutely!!!!

> > and there is little interest in improving its speed compared to
> > improvements in other areas.
> 
> There seems to be considerable interest in Python's speed in this
> newsgroup, I've been happy to find :)

I think there is a disconnect between improvements that the user
community (and potential user community) wants to see, and the
improvements that the Python developers themselves want to see. Being an
open source project, what gets done is what the developers what to get
done. Apparently, a major effort to optimise for speed is not on the top
of the developers list, while I suspect it is higher on the list of
users, and maybe even higher on the lists of potential users.

This is not a criticism, it is simply a fact. If someone were to create
a blazingly fast Python compiler, I'd bet they'd find a good market, but
in the meantime, open source projects produce excellent software that is
geared towards the people capable of writing that software, hence
excellent compilers and operating systems, ans far less software that is
considered "usable" by the novice.

>    a = 4.0 * b     # NumPy scalar * array multiplication
> 
> took 0.31 seconds, and just for fun I coded a simple loop in C and it
> took 0.6 seconds to run 1 million times.  So C was 300 times faster
> than a map call in Python and 50 times faster than Numerical Python.

50 times faster than Numeric??? this makes little sense (at least for
large arrays) I'd like to see the code, I suspect you were doing
something different in the C code.

> In the long run I hope there will be Python compilers and high
> performance applications being written in Python, like there currently
> are for Scheme or Lisp.

That would be a wonderful future !!
 
Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Most cases where you want big performance improvements are situations
> > where a particular small set of operations is taking up most of the
> > time. If those operations are coded as a C extension, then you don't
> > need to rewrite the other stuff that is already debugged and working,
> > and you get all the benefits of staying in the Python environment.
> 
> Exactly *why* there is relatively little interest in improving
> the speed of raw Python.  We all realize a more effective way
> to gain speed improvements is to profile and then recode as
> a C extension if (and only if) absolutely necessary.

I think this explains the disconnect I see between user's and
developer's (of Python) interest in speed optimization: A person
qualified to work on the Python interpreter can whip up a quick C
extension to speed up the bottleneck. A user like myself who is a C
novice, needs to put a whole lot of time into that same C extension. If
I could compile some Python (perhaps with a few static type declarations
or something) I'd be a whole lot more productive!! Come to think of it,
I am working on a project now with a couple of experienced C/C++
programmers. I have them writing most of the C extensions that we
require,a nd it takes them at least 5-10 times as long to write the C as
it takes me to write similar Python (it takes me 20 times as long!). We
would all benifit A LOT if that were not neccesary. If we didn't have
Numeric, we couldn't do this project in Python at all.

Note that unlike many posters, I LOVE the dynamic nature of Python, I
would not want to give that up, after all, that is why I use it. What I
wouldn't mind is if I could write just a few functions in Python that
were not so dynamic, and compile those to fast native code. 

I had high hopes for the Py2C project, it seems like it had a LOT of
potential for allowing this, but it seems to be stalled out :-(

In short: yes, speed matters, and Python could be a far more general
purpose language than it is if the speed issue were addressed as
succesfully as it has been for LISP.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug  3 06:38:14 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:38:14 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <qava7.64893$EP6.15124573@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B6A6B97.2060306 at herts.ac.uk...
> Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the
++/--
> operator out of python. It is perhaps my only irritation with
python, it

It was not left out. I was not included.  See FAQ for more comment

> is just that I hate to have to write:
>
> x = x + 1
>
> when my whole being just yearns to type
>
> x++

x += 1 # more general than ++

Terry J. Reedy





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 09:22:54 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:22:54 -0500
Subject: base classes
In-Reply-To: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl>
Message-ID: <15235.45614.138207.962111@beluga.mojam.com>

    pete> One question about classes. I have two classes, both have
    pete> attribute called 'a'

    pete> The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes?
    pete> What is workaround?

If your intention is that the two should be distinct, try hiding the names
by prepending two underscores to those names:

    class a1:
        def __init__( self ):
            self.__a = 1

    class a2:
        def __init__( self ):
            self.__a = 2

    class aa( a1, a2 ):
        def __init__( self ):
            a1.__init__( self )
            a2.__init__( self )

>>> AA = aa()
>>> print AA.__dict__
{'_a2__a': 2, '_a1__a': 1}

Each instance maintains all its attributes in a single dict, so without some
sort of name mangling you'll get collisions such as you observed.  Python
does work like C++ where you (more-or-less) concatenate base class structs
to build the data structure used by subclass instances.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From guido at python.org  Wed Aug  8 18:58:02 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:58:02 GMT
Subject: Exception confusion
References: <mailman.997265112.4094.python-list@python.org> <j4d766wzhl.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.997275253.19695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpbslq40un.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Martin Sj?gren <martin at strakt.com> writes:

> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 01:41:10PM +0200, Martin von Loewis wrote:
> > Martin Sj?gren <martin at strakt.com> writes:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > III. Raising an exception in the form klass,value is the same
> >      as raising it as klass(value)
> 
> On the contrary, it isn't!
> 
> You're saying that 'raise Exception, var' is the same as 'Exception(var)',
> but what about these two examples:
> 
>   raise Exception, 'foo'
> 
> This is most certainly equivalent to "Exception('foo')" in that this
> holds:
>   Exception('foo').args == ('foo',)
> 
> No worries there!
> 
>   raise Exception, ('foo', 'bar')
> 
> What happens now?  This is NOT equivalent to "Exception(('foo', 'bar'))"
> since:
>   Exception(('foo', 'bar')) == (('foo', 'bar'),)
> whereas "raise Exception, ('foo', 'bar') yields the tuple ('foo', 'bar')
> as exc.arg!
> 
> [snip more]
> 
> All I'm asking is WHY tuples are handled differently?  In my case I have
> an exception that may be raised either with a tuple or a string. Right now
> I have to do this:
> 
> except MyException, exc:
>     if len(exc.args) == 0:
>         arg = None
>     elif len(exc.args) == 1:
>         arg = exc.args[0]
>     else:
>         arg = exc.args
> 
> Why-oh-why do exceptions work like this? :(

(1) Why?  To make it easy to raise an exception with multiple
    arguments without using the E(a, b, c) notation, and also easy
    to raise an exception with a single argument.  This was important
    way back when we were encouraging folks to convert their
    string-based exceptions to class-based exceptions.

(2) Workaround?  When you want to raise an exception with a single
    argument that's a tuple, add a singleton tuple around it:

      raise E, (a,)

    Or, of course, you can write

      raise E(a)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Aug 21 20:23:01 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:23:01 +1000
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EF4@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> Interesting.. I think maybe I should put a warning in the README that
> enabling auto-update may be a security risk if my server is 
> cracked, so if
> the system has secrets on it, user must disable the feature. With
> signatures, even, private signature also can be compromised.. but then
> again, even if there is no auto-update, someone can just 
> crack the server
> and replace tarball with a trojan (and then post an update to 
> freshmeat
> for good measure!). 

Well, no - you don't have the *server* apply the signature - you have that
already applied to the file to be downloaded. Otherwise any file would
appear to be a valid download. Sure - someone could crack your server and
put a trojan on there - but since it isn't signed properly, your app would
refuse it.

Tim Delaney



From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Fri Aug 10 06:07:21 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:07:21 +1000
Subject: One yahoo's view
References: <i676ntg62akjess1vdhr4dltkq4jg3j2vl@4ax.com> <6EFc7.19$0c.1391@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B73B259.E7489BB4@student.gu.edu.au>

Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> "Kirby Urner" <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
> news:i676ntg62akjess1vdhr4dltkq4jg3j2vl at 4ax.com...
> >
> > The Yahoo mirror/interface to comp.lang.python says
> > about this "group":
> >
> > Group Info
> > Members: 436
> > Founded: Dec 31, 1969
> > Language: English
> >
> > Go figure.
> >
> And of course two hundred of those are Tim Peters, and AlexMartelli must be
> at least another 150. When you factor Guido's 85 points (potential score 850
> * 0.1 presence-on-group penalty) that means the only other person is ... er
> ... me.
> 
> So the real question is, who are *you*?

I am .... a Smith. (Sorry, video reruns of Matrix tonight.)
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 12:16:32 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:16:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com> <Xns90FEA401A2357duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <9le69l$bha$1@news.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FEAE99556D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Joshua Marshall <jmarshal at mathworks.com> wrote in
news:9le69l$bha$1 at news.mathworks.com: 

>> The 'global' keyword doesn't create a new global variable. All it does
>> is to force references to that name, within that local scope, refer to
>> a global variable. If you assign to the variable declared as global
>> then you will update its value. If you reference the variable then you
>> get its value if it exists, or you get an exception if it doesn't
>> exist. 
> 
> No, Rob is right:
> 
>  >>> def f():
>   ...    global x
>   ...    x = 666
>   ... 
>  >>> f()
>  >>> x
>   666
> 
> You can use 'global' to define a new variable.
> 
But the global keyword did not create the variable. The assignment to the 
variable created it. You can use the 'global' keyword and still not have 
the variable created, you can also create a global variable without using 
the keyword (e.g. by setting a value in the result of globals()).

The global keyword simply changes how the name is used within a local 
scope. It does not, of itself, create a global variable. A global variable 
is created by assigning to it either directly from outside a function/class 
body; assigning to it from inside a function before(!) or after the use of 
a matching 'global' statement; or assigning to it indirectly such as 
through globals().

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From scott_hathaway at riskvision.com  Tue Aug 28 07:59:20 2001
From: scott_hathaway at riskvision.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:59:20 -0500
Subject: py2exe and SOAP.py
References: <3b853563.0@216.0.152.7> <20010827205525.B7841@zot.electricrain.com>
Message-ID: <002601c12fb8$df0047b0$6901a8c0@risktech.rtinow.com>

Gregory,

Thanks for the tip.  I tried adding the imports as you show, but still get
the errors with py2exe.  I will try with Gordon's installer and see if I can
get it working with it.

Thanks,
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory P. Smith" <greg at electricrain.com>
To: "Scott Hathaway" <scott_hathaway at riskvision.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: py2exe and SOAP.py


> On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:56:13AM -0500, Scott Hathaway wrote:
> > I am trying to build an .exe with py2exe on Windows with a project that
uses
> > SOAP.py.  When I try to run the .exe I get this error:
> >
> > LookUp Error:  no codec search functions registered:  can't find
encoding
> >
> > Any ideas on how to fix this?
>
> Yes, this one was annoying.  I make sure I do this somewhere in my
> code have the needed dependencies show up to py2exe:
>
> ...........
> # don't use this file in actual code, its sole purpose is to import
> # everything necessary to grab from PyXML so that Gordon's Installer
> # will package up a python program that uses PyXML properly.
>
> # include PyXML
> import xml
> from xml import dom, marshal, parsers, sax, utils #,unicode
> import xml.dom.minidom
> import xml.parsers.xmlproc
> import xml.parsers.xmlproc.xmlproc
> import xml.parsers.pyexpat
> from xml.sax import drivers, drivers2
> from xml.sax.drivers import drv_pyexpat, drv_xmlproc
> from xml.sax.drivers2 import drv_pyexpat, drv_xmlproc
>
> import xml.unicode
> from xml.unicode import iso8859, utf8_iso
> ...........
>
> I believe it was the latter two lines that had to be added to work around
> the missing codec problem.
>
> I also renamed the PyXML installation's '_xmlplus' directory to 'xml'
> (replacing the tiny 'xml' directory that comes with python) so that the
> PyXML modules are packaged correctly for me.
>
> -Greg
>
> --
> Gregory P. Smith   gnupg/pgp: http://electricrain.com/greg/keys/
>                    C379 1F92 3703 52C9 87C4  BE58 6CDA DB87 105D 9163




From volucris at hotmail.com  Sat Aug  4 18:39:04 2001
From: volucris at hotmail.com (Volucris)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:39:04 -0500
Subject: Beginner's questions
References: <e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b6c7957$0$327$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>

"Lad" <printers at sendme.cz> wrote in message
news:e34de21e.0108041302.7cd8c416 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I am a Perl programmer but I miss some things in Perl. For this
> reason I am looking for another, better (if any) programming
> language. Maybe Python would be my choice. Can you please
> answer the following?

First of all, www.python.org is the best place to go. It has everything you
need. Python interpreter, tutorials, docs, etc'

> 1.How well threads are implemented in Python particularly under
> windows?

They are supported, but _how well_ is kind of subjective. Someone with more
experience with threading in other languages might answer this better. Try
the threading module.

> 2.Are there any libraries for working with HTTP protocols that is
> modules that could help download( grab) web pages with GET
> methods and modules for using  also POST method without
> necessity to program these applications with sockets?

Yep, the httplib module.

> 3.Are there any libraries for SMTP, POP3 and NNTP protocols?

Yes, again. The smtplib, poplib and nntplib modules respectivly.

> 4. Is there a program for making executable files from python
> programs?

Yes, py2exe, Freeze and others. I haven't used these, but I hear they're
kind of limited.

> 5. What modules , except Tk, can I use for GUI programming with
> Python?

Yes, wxPython is the only one besides Tkinter that comes to mind right at
the moment, but I know there are several others.

> 6. Is it possible, in Python, send output from a program to a web
> browser directly or in other words display html file in python
> application?

Yes, it would be very easy in Windows. I'm sure it's pretty easy on other
platforms as well, but, once again, I'm not sure.

> 7. Where can I find a available modules list?

That, along with most of these answers are in the docs
(http://python.org/doc/). The docs should be part of your download, also.

> 8. What are best tutorials/books on Python?

There is a real simple tutorial on the website. It will get you familiar
with the syntax pretty quickly.

> 9. Can you give me  examples of large Python application?

They have a list on the website.

> 10. Why do YOU use Python?

It's intuitive.

> 11. Is it possible to to "talk" to java applets via Python?

Uh...I think so. There is Jython, which is Pyhton and Java sewn together.
And you can use Python with asp. So I would imagine this is possible.

>
> Thank you for your answers?

Anytime. Just remember: go to http://python.org/ to get even better answers.

>
> Ladislav

--

Volucris (a) hotmail.com
"Eu n?o falo uma ?nica palavra do portugu?s."






From konrad.koller at worldonline.de  Sun Aug 12 02:01:14 2001
From: konrad.koller at worldonline.de (Konrad Koller)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 06:01:14 GMT
Subject: Help! I am cut off from Python beyond Verson 2.0.
Message-ID: <3b761af0.3371718@news.worldonline.de>

Unfortunately Python is weak in supporting MIDI. As far as I know
midipy.pyd is the only module in the world of Python which makes
realtime playing of algorithmically composed music possible. The
module was provided in Jan 2001 for Python2.0 by simon2 at www2.hku.nl.
Almost all my programs rely on this module. After having switched to
Python2.1 I get the following import error:

>From midipy import getMidiOutDevice,....
Import Error: Module use of python20.dll conflicts with this version
of Python.

The author of midipy.pid announced to provide an update for Python2.1,
but this did not happen. Unfortunately in the meantime he has left the
Highschool for Arts in Utrecht (URL: http://www2.hku.nl/~simon2) and
cannot reached anymore and as a consequence I am cut off of any
further development of Python beyond version 2.0.
In january in addition to his midipy.pyd the author had provided a
midipy.cpp which wants to have included
<Python.h>
<algorithm>
<OSC_MIDIInput.h>
<OSC_MIDIOutput.h>
Did somebody get an updated version of the module or can someone give
any help resp. hint how to make midipy.pyd useable beyond Python2.0 ?


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Tue Aug  7 16:35:47 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:35:47 -0700
Subject: PyInline was Re: probs w/ building python extensions on free   
 Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9ko6720156j@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997206731.19475.python-list@python.org> <etditfz90me.fsf@pickled-herring.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3B705123.D1E506DA@ActiveState.com>

Alex wrote:
> 
> To me, it seems like the biggest advantage to Inline is that it writes
> the wrapper code for you automatically.  I can't see a big advantage to
> having, say, C code stored in a .py file.  What does it get you?

I think that the advantage is conceptual simplicity. With inline, you
can "rewrite" a function in C without worrying about compilers, build
systems, distutils etc. 

> Having mixed languages in the one file is not a big advantage, I'd have
> thought pyperl would suffice for the perl inteface, and maybe a simple
> wrapper around SWIG would suffice for the C interface.

If you think it is simple, go to it! Surely the "difficulty" of
embedding C code into Python isn't the only thing stopping you.
Obviously that is trivial. The thing that takes effort is making the
whole thing seamless. You pick up a book on C, you rewrite a Python
function in C and everything just works. You're an instant extension
programmer. You don't have to write an interface file. You don't have to
write a makefile. You don't have to write the tedious per-module
boilerplate that takes up 90% of a simple extension module, etc.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug 23 13:02:02 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:02:02 -0700
Subject: Newbie Question About Python
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com> <pg7sntks9t21gugt1beiladbnf7gv73epn@4ax.com> <3B84C21B.5080@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B85370A.56A391F1@home.net>

Fumari wrote:
> Ive been starting to learn Python by looking over some tuts linked from
> the offical site.  Now it seems to me Python is like perl as in the
> system must have perl installed in order to run the program?

yes.

is this
> correct, in python you right out the code then command line it?

no. Python byte-compiles the code, and then interprets it. IF a given
module is already byte compiled (*.pyc files) then it uses that
directly.

>Is
> there a way to make an exe file?

yes. There are a few ways to build a single executable from your Pythn
code. All of these methods (except Py2C, which seems to be in stalled
development) essentially bundle up your code with a Python interpreter.
This does make it easier to distribute a program to folks that are not
using Python for other things, or are using a different version.

look for freeze, Py2exe, and Gordon MacMillian's Installer on the web.
(i'm sure someone can provide you with link, I'm just feeling lazy at
the moment.

-Chris



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Thu Aug  2 10:18:41 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:18:41 +0200
Subject: compiling standard python modules
References: <3B695B52.4040104@hot.ee>
Message-ID: <3B696141.1090502@___skynamics.com.invalid>

Janno Kusman wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to compile python to embed platform running NetBSD on MIPS 
> based CPU. I have managed to compile python executable and it seems to 
> work.
> 
> I can't figure out how to compile standard modules like time and math. 
> Compiling is done under Windows using Cygwin based tools so I can't use 
> compiled python to run setup.py. I tryied to run setup.py using windows 
> python, but it figures out platform and compilers wrong.
> 
> I would preciate if someone could guide me how to compile standard 
> modules manually - how python finds and uses modules, maybe it's 
> possible to compile modules into python executable?


Yup. Compiling them statically into the python executable is IMO the way 
to go. Look into the Setup file in the Modules directory, activate all 
the modules you want (also look for *static* and *shared* in this file, 
I don't have a Python source tree here atm), then recompile Python.

Gerhard
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From anamax at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 14 16:04:30 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:04:30 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com> <pson154nfha.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108131541.3cc051d9@posting.google.com> <997763429.579495@yabetcha.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108141204.1518e81c@posting.google.com>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<997763429.579495 at yabetcha.drizzle.com>...
> Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
> ...
> | Python's type system has some marvelous properties.  Feel free to
> | produce a static type system that is as powerful.  Then you get to
> | make the complexity argument.  Or, you get to make the "but programmers
> | don't need all that power" argument.  Or both.
> 
> It's hard to compare Python vs. Haskell or OCaml and decide whose
> type system is more powerful, just because that isn't a quantifiable
> measure, but I bet your evident interest in these matters would be
> well rewarded by learning a little of one or the other.

Perhaps my distaste for static typing comes, in part, from some experience
with similar languages (ML).  Static typing has always cost me more than
the benefits I received.  (I do appreciate the "your disagreement must
stem from you ignorance" tone.)

However, I do appreciate the opportunity to restate my point explicitly.
It's pretty much useless to discuss a static type system for Python in
the abstract.  Let's see an actual proposal, complete with significant
examples (demonstrating benefits, not cleverness in writing type expressions),
and maybe even some measurements.

> The "programmers don't need all that power" argument is already
> being made, though, if you take the time to read more current
> threads in c.l.p.

Hmm - I wonder if, just maybe, those other discussions motivated/explain
why I referred to them by mentioning their argument....

> Run-time dynamism in certain aspects of the
> system is at odds with type/class unification, to questionable
> value added due to the lack of transparency (because you don't
> know even after you have seen the code - who knows what changes
> some other code may make here at run time), and the obstacles
> to optimization due to the same lack of transparency.

I'm not convinced that the type/class distinction slows down development.
I'm sympathetic to the possibility that the lack of transparency does.

The actual benefits of the optimization have been overstated.

Moreover, it's not clear that language changes are required for interesting
speedups.  Alex has mentioned ways to significantly speed up dispatch,
which happens to be one of the biggest opportunities for using type
information to increase performance.  There's also type inference, which
would improve dispatch and other things.  I've never seen anyone claim
that the bytecode interpreter is as efficient as it could reasonably be.
And so on.

While there's some work being done on python performance, it isn't getting
nearly the attention that one would expect given the opportunities if
performance really was a significant problem.  It's possible that Guido
et al's priorities are completely wrong or that they don't see the
opportunities, but ....

-andy


From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Tue Aug 14 13:37:39 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:37:39 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B7961E3.B62804C3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi All,

Robert Amesz wrote:

> Russell E. Owen wrote:
>
> > They both work, so I think you'll do fine either way.
> >
> > Here are some considerations. I have used Tk much more than Wx, so
> > have much less to say about Wx. Contributions would be most
> > welcome.
> >
> > Tk:
> > + runs on more different platforms (e.g. Mac) than Wx and is more
> > mature
>
> I don't know all that much about Tkinter, but from what I've seen
> Tkinter programs are somewhat smaller than their wxPython counterparts.
> However, it seems that from wxPython you have more control over some
> things.

In general wxPython provides a rather thin if at all layer over the
original C++ functionality, with few exceptions (like Python applets in the
html view widget) which may not be in the everyday use by everybody.
Closely following the lines of the underlying toolkit is good for some
users but is bad for the others. Anyway everybody has a choice.

Alexander




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug  6 00:01:59 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 00:01:59 -0400
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3B6369D4.671C1870@alcyone.com> <Xns90ED38309C442cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50> <3B63973B.490D4B08@engcorp.com> <Xns90ED5DA29D6E3gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154> <f67cb2b7.0108021215.6e7425b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B6E16B7.EE485426@engcorp.com>

Tavis Rudd wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:

Umm.. no I didn't.  Gordon wrote this...

> > It's also very useful in some circular import situations.
> >
> > Circular imports are fine where both modules use the "import <module>"
> > form of import. They fail when the 2nd module wants to grab a name
> > out of the first ("from module import name") and the import is at
> > the top level. That's because names in the 1st are not yet available,
> > (the first module is busy importing the 2nd).
> >
> > As above, this is a sensible solution only if the use of the imported
> > module is confined to the one function.
> 
> Actually, circular imports can still cause problems using the "import
> <module>" form. Some of the "import  <module>" statements in Cheetah
> (www.cheetahtemplate.org) were causing circular import problems in
> Jython.  cPython was fine, unless the module was being imported using
> imp.load_source() or one of its kin.  

This sounds like Jython is broken.  Shouldn't the import statement 
in the second module, which imports the first module, just bring
a reference into the second module's namespace?  It's probably not
supposed to cause any trouble.

imp.load_source(), I note, is documented as "obsolete".  It also 
points out, however, that it will re-initialize the module if it
is already loaded, which implies it won't work with circular 
references, as you discovered.  Maybe Jython is using load_source() 
or an equivalent, without looking in sys.modules first?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From nivelnospamotri at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 05:30:01 2001
From: nivelnospamotri at yahoo.com (Nivel Otri)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 02:30:01 -0700
Subject: distributing python programs to non-geeks
Message-ID: <c1eb87b.0108160130.519f68d6@posting.google.com>

I've got some python and ruby scripts that some people have expressed
an interest in being able to run, but most get scared away by having
to go to install python/ruby, set up a directory for the scripts, etc.
 (All are using some flavor of Windows.)

What would be ideal would be a way of generating a Windows installer
for a python/ruby script, complete with an icon that can go on the
desktop or in the start menu.  You would download the installer, run
it, then double-click on the icon it generates, and it would run just
like any other executable.  Obviously the installer would have to
install python/ruby if it isn't there, and the icon would really fire
up python/ruby with the arguments pointing to the script, etc., but
all of this could be transparent to the user, so that it looks like
any other installer and executable.

Has anything like this been done?  Or if not for python or ruby, is
there another decent scripting language that would make it easy to do
this kind of non-intimidating distribution?

Thanks!


From polopunk209 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 17 23:10:46 2001
From: polopunk209 at hotmail.com (Josh)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 20:10:46 -0700
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
Message-ID: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com>

I want to work with PyGAME. But, I know I need to spend a little more
time with some simple Python programs. But, I have no idea what would
be a good program for a novice to work on. This isn't helped by the
fact that the only need I really have for a computer at this point in
my life is entertainment. Anyway, what do you guys think are some good
problems for a novice such as myself to tackle? Thanks for your
suggestions.

-Josh


From dalke at acm.org  Fri Aug 10 06:36:38 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:36:38 +0100
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com> <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org> <cpsnf090x8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l07gd01rjn@enews4.newsguy.com> <cp8zgs3vor.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l169c$uok$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Guido:
>The docs for dir() are very vague; code depending on a particular
>behavior must necessarily be built on observation.  For example, I'm
>not particularly concerned with breaking pydoc or PyChecker -- these
>are apps that heavily rely on introspection, and their authors were
>aware that they were walking on thin ice.  It's easy enough to fix
>these.
>
>I'd really like to see how people are using dir() in code that would
>break if it suddenly started to return all attributes; what kind of
>harm could be done?

I wrote one application similar to pydoc (acutually based off of Ping's
earlier code).  It uses dir two places.  They are:

 dir(module) -> list of elements in the module

and in a routine called 'superdir' which gets all of the class
methods and attributes:

def superdir(klass):
  klasses = [klass]
  terms = {}
  while klasses:
    klass = klasses[0]
    klasses = klasses[1:]
    for name in dir(klass):
      terms[name] = 1
    klasses.extend(list(klass.__bases__))
  names = terms.keys()
  names.sort()
  return names

As far as I can tell, none of the changes you mention will
change any of this code.

I also have access to one of my client's code base.  They use
'dir' precisely once in the whole system, which is for a function
called 'help' which works like the new pydoc.help command.  The
specific code is:

  if type(obj) == ModuleType:
     print "The following functions, classes, constants etc. are available "
\
           "in this module:"
     print
     list = []
     for name in dir(obj):
       if name[0:2] != "__":
         list.append(_describe(obj.__dict__[name], name))
     list.sort()
     for item in list:
       print item
     print "-" * 78

Again, since this works on a module and not a class, it will not
be affected by any of these changes to dir().  Besides, I expect
them to migrate to use pydoc's help command, so this will all
go away.

>If this is really unacceptable, [...]

I agree with Paul Boddie when he said:
> I was initially surprised that dir(object) didn't give
> the methods as well as the attributes, and disappointed that
> dir(object.__class__) doesn't state the methods available on that
> object.

I know I get annoyed when I'm trying to figure out what an
object does and I do a sequence like

dir(obj)
dir(obj.__class__)
obj.__class__.__bases__
dir(obj.__class__.__bases__[0])

(while all the time being thankful for readline support)

So I would like to change dir() to implement (quoting Guido again)
> How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
> letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can
> reasonably deduce)?

as that's is easier for people to use while also not likely to
break much existing code.

(I presented Python at a bioinformatics conference a couple weeks
ago.  One of the advantages I mentioned of Python was introspection
in the interactive mode, so you could puzzle some things out even if
there wasn't documentation.  I did omit describing that things
become a bit tricker with more complicated classes.  Ooops.  So
you wouldn't like them to think of me as overpromting Python,
would you?  ;)

Alex:
> That would be wonderful, but I think it would still require a
> from __future__ for one release.

Turning it around, another possibility is

from __past__ import dir

I am not proposing this - I only think it's cute, and works
fine because dir() is only a function, not a variable->keyword
change like yield.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Tue Aug 28 15:47:55 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 19:47:55 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9mgshb$h1g$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

jeroen paul goudsmit <diedanootdie at danoot.com> wrote:
> I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language for
> me to use. is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?

Yes, you can use it in lots of OSes (though I don't want to say 'any', but
surely almost any you'll encounter).

> I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
> like it.

I don't know VB very well, but Python has constructs (like 'if' and 'while
' and 'for' that you'll recognize from VB, though they work a bit
differently). The biggest shift would be if you start to use
object oriented programming techniques. While you can program in Python
without doing any OO just fine, it becomes much more powerful when you do.

> If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a python
> sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")

I don't know VB, but I can tell you this isn't translatable into Python
as such. VB integrates extremely tightly with Windows, and the Windows
user interface toolkit. Python is a far more open language, and far
more cross platform. It can integrate with the windows user interface
toolkit directly, but also with other GUI toolkits like Qt (runs on
Unix and also on Windows), GTK (runs on Unix and also on Windows),
Tk (runs on Unix and Windows and Mac), wxWindows (runs on Unix and
Windows and I believe a mac version is under development), etc, etc.

In each of these, you'd need a different line to accomplish any 
UI task. You'll have to pick the one you like best and learn how to use
that library. 

> Is python hard to learn?

No, it would be one of the most easiest programming languages to learn.
That said, it's probably easier to get started doing fancy GUI stuff
with environments such as VB or Delphi. Besides a programming language
(Microsoft's variety of Basic and Borland's variety of Object Pascal),
these environments also offer easy ways to build GUIs and database
connections. While there are advanced enviromments for Python in the works,
Python doesn't come with these out of the box. So, you'll have to do
more research for Python here.

The advantage of course is that you're not tied to any such environment
with Python; you can use any you like and you're far more flexible. There
was a list posted to this newsgroup recently; perhaps you can look it up.

> And is there a dutch person in this group?

There are several; me for instance. :)

> If there is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.

Not yet, as far as I know. I've heard some rumors from reliable sources
that at least one Dutch publisher is looking for people to write such
a book, but don't hold your breath..

> Could you please answer my questions? Thanks.

I hope my answers have been of any use. :)

Good luck! I hope you decide to give Python a shot. If so, welcome to the
"free world". :) 

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Thu Aug  2 19:27:24 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:27:24 -0700
Subject: embedding program in Tkinter
Message-ID: <3B69E1DC.6A3F69FE@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

Is it possible to embed and arbitrary program in a Tkinter Window.
ie. run xclock but in a Tkinter frame or canvas.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sun Aug  5 08:46:32 2001
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 08:46:32 -0400
Subject: Python Source Reformatter?
References: <ve9omtgkm22rseoibo0fkfnsnlp02e0j1r@4ax.com> <uJ_a7.38418$WD1.2088451@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B6D4028.28362E17@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010805/8cb7ae09/attachment.html>

From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Fri Aug 24 11:00:57 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:00:57 +0200
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com> <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <1oqcots7lbmcsk7ossdkfbcr7dfqd33kvf@4ax.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:32:46 +0200, Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com>
wrote:

>>> (And, BTW, if I hit Ctrl-C, I get an error
>>>"Unhandled exception detected before entering Python." - shouldn't I
>>> get a KeybordInterrupt error?)
>
>Well, the Ctrl+C key is being hit _before_ Python code is entered.  In 
>this case we possibly do _not_ want Python to handle the exception - for 
>all we know, the object itself has handled the Ctrl+C key, and is 
>calling back into Python to handle it.

Hmm, thinking some more about this, the key point is that we don't *know* that
the object has handled the exception. But if the object does handle the
exception, surely the Python support code won't see it (it'll have already
been translated into an OnCtrlC event or whatever, and handled). So the only
time Python sees the Ctrl-C is when the object *hasn't* handled it - and so
Python *should* handle it. After all, in the current situation, where the
object does not handle Ctrl-C, I have no way of either handling it on the next
event in Python, nor of suppressing the message.

Sorry, the above paragraph is a bit muddled - I'm not sure I understand all
the issues here. But I don't think that a simple "it's the component's fault"
answers all of the questions.

Paul.



From kwg at renre-europe.com  Mon Aug 27 08:25:54 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:25:54 +0100
Subject: html viewer/pane for pmw/Tkinter?
Message-ID: <998915173.12325.5.camel@lewis>


hi, does anybody know if there is a HTML viewer widget available for
PMW/Tkinter?
Specifically, I want to be able to display  formatted HTML inside the
GUI of a python app.

thanks

k.




From claysjunkmail at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 05:45:37 2001
From: claysjunkmail at yahoo.com (Clayton Brown - Emmie Osawa)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 02:45:37 -0700
Subject: Python ODBC
Message-ID: <1b9aff84.0108280145.1298676a@posting.google.com>

I am trying a basic case of SQL Insert INTO an access databse using
python.
Can anyone point out why this does not work? Note: DSN works, SQL
works in SQL2000, TRACKS table exists, database = access 2000.

<CODE>
import dbi, odbc

sqlInsert = "INSERT INTO TRACKS (INTERNAL_ID) VALUES ('1472738')"
myconn = odbc.odbc('CD_DSN')
cursor = myconn.cursor()
cursor.execute(sqlInsert)
myconn.commit()
cursor.close()
myconn.close()
</CODE>


Error Produced:
cursor.execute(sqlInsert)
dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] 
Could not find output table 'TRACKS'. in EXEC


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Thu Aug  2 09:51:55 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:51:55 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996737344.3078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b695793.2250764@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
<mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:

>
>On 01-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
> >  (Not that it makes any difference here, but
> >  since you undertstand the math so much better
> >  than I do: Exactly what definition of
> >  "complex number" do you have in mind here?
> >  The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
> >  real numbers".)
>
>I'd say it's not the standard definition, but rather the standard
>representation.

Well, it _is_ the _definition_ in many contexts. Honest.

(_Not_ that I see what it _matters_ what "the" definition
in mathematics is! The idea that that should be an
important criterion in determining the way Python
complexes should work seems silly.)

> The complex field C is an extension of degree 2 of the 
>reals R (by the way, the only possible extension of R). To get a 
>representation of the complex field you need a root of an irreducible
>polynomial over R. The standard representation uses the polynomial 
>x**2 + 1, and we usually call that root i or j. This means that we have
>i**2 = -1. This choice is natural, since it gives the easiest rules for
>arithmetic operations. However, you could use any other irreducible 
>polynomial over R, e.g. x**2 + x + 1. You still would use a pair of 
>reals to represent a complex number, but another pair than you would
>have in the standard representation. And the arithmetic rules would
>be different as well.

Something like that could be very interesting, but surely the
sort of thing that could not possibly belong in Python proper
instead of some specialized module.

>What I believe Greg is aiming at is that the complex numbers are more
>than a pair of reals. A pair of reals is not a complex number unless
>you specify the arithmetic rules of the pair.

It's certainly true that a pair of reals is not exactly the same
thing as a complex for exactly the reason you give. I don't see
what bearing that has on how a Python complex should work (and
hence it doesn't seem to me to be what he was getting at, since
he was drawing conclusions about what Python complexes should
be from statements about what the mathematical definition is.)

>Now *I* would not mind to allow complex numbers with integers as 
>coefficients. That way I would get Gaussian integers without specifying
>my own class for the purpose. _But_, I understand that very few would
>have a need for that.

Right. For possibly the seventh time: I was not making a request.
Just pointing out that when someone says that the fact that
floats should always be inexact _implies_ that complexes
should always be inexact someone seemed to be misunderstanding
someone else's point, which point appeared to me to be
a request for exact or inexact complexes which was perfectly
consistent with the idea that floats should always be inexact.

> I mean, how many acually uses complex numbers
>at all in their programs. Most people still regard complex numbers as
>a very obscure corner in math. About only a 150 years ago, when complex
>numbers were new,

??? Not that it matters, but I woulda thought they'd been around a
little longer than that.

> many _mathematicians_ thought of them as something 
>the devil had produced.
>
>/Mikael
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
>WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
>Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
>Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
>Date:    02-Aug-2001
>Time:    08:48:18
>
>         /"\
>         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>          X      Against HTML Mail
>         / \
>
>This message was sent by XF-Mail.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>



David C. Ullrich


From new_name at mit.edu  Tue Aug  7 14:38:17 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 14:38:17 -0400
Subject: PyInline was Re: probs w/ building python extensions on free   Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com> <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9ko6720156j@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997206731.19475.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <etditfz90me.fsf@pickled-herring.mit.edu>

To me, it seems like the biggest advantage to Inline is that it writes
the wrapper code for you automatically.  I can't see a big advantage to
having, say, C code stored in a .py file.  What does it get you?

Having mixed languages in the one file is not a big advantage, I'd have
thought pyperl would suffice for the perl inteface, and maybe a simple
wrapper around SWIG would suffice for the C interface.

Alex.



From thomas at xs4all.net  Mon Aug  6 13:53:43 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:53:43 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELDLDAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELDLDAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010806195342.Q626@xs4all.nl>

On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 07:47:50PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Neil Hodgson]
> >     This is not restricted to you. Large numbers of people have been
> > receiving these probably due to the Sircam worm/virus. I've received
> > some and I'm for the division change.

> Ah, *that's* what this is about -- "I send you this file in order to have
> your advice", etc.  webmaster at python.org has gotten hundreds of these,
> possibly thousands.  We thought they came from Stephen <wink>.  My primary
> ISP filters them out, so I've only seen about 50 of them; in *most* cases,
> the return address is in fact bogus, although I haven't seen that aspect
> confirmed in the tech reports.

For those that wish to filter SirCam, and use procmail, put this in your
procmailrc:

:0 :
* ^Content-Type: multipart/mixed; \
   boundary="----[0-9A-F]+_Outlook_Express_message_boundary"
* B ?? ^Content-(Type|Disposition):.*name=.*\
        \.(doc|xls|zip|txt|gif|jpg)\.(com|bat|pif|lnk|exe)
sircam

It filters based on two things: a boundary string that seems to be fairly
unique to SirCam (contrary to what it looks like, Outlook Express doesn't
seem to use that boundary itself) and of course the presense of an
attachment with two extensions (also pretty unique to SirCam.) We use it for
a number of 'public' email addresses, and we haven't seen any false
positives yet.

If you're secure enough to throw all that mail out, instead of placing it in
a 'sircam' folder, you can change the last line from 'sircam' to
'/dev/null', and the first line to just ':0' (the last : does locking, which
you don't want to do on /dev/null).

Tim, I know you're too windows-based to do procmail filtering, but if I were
you, I'd get Barry or whoever to put such a filter on webmaster at python.org :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug 31 11:50:00 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:50:00 GMT
Subject: Is 0 > None??
References: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com> <qAMj7.156063$EP6.43986636@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <9mo7d705q1@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ovch8.3p2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:36:23 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:

> Comparing a blue camel to a rocking horse is fine -- comparing it
> to a complex number isn't.

Complex numbers aren't the only exception. Comparing a blue camel to
a rocking horse is not fine if they are instances of classes which
define __cmp__ to something unfriendly.

Perhaps an interesting idea would be to separate two concepts of
comparison:

  * <, >, <=, >= work on homogeneous objects and provide some natural
    order appropriate for their meaning. it doesn't have to have the
    property I don't know English name for: that
        forall x y. (x <= y) or (y <= x)
    e.g. among sets an appropriate definition would be being a subset.
    x<y should be the same as x<=y and x!=y, not necessarily the same as
    not (x>=y).

  * cmp gives a total order among everything, not necessarily very
    meaningful but with the above property. It's similar to Python's
    cmp from the time it worked on complex numbers.

== and != belong to both families at the same time. There is no
conceptual problem with finding the answer for very different objects
(they are just unequal). The amount compared is supposed to be the
same for both kinds of comparisons.

If it's a good design, we should find a way to introduce it smoothly
without breaking too much.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From lomax at pumpichank.com  Thu Aug  2 22:46:16 2001
From: lomax at pumpichank.com (Frank "Mr. Bleary" Lomax)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:46:16 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>
	<mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org>
	<T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<9kbip102o37@enews1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.996784446.25354.python-list@python.org>
	<slrn9mk0as.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15210.4216.309131.969369@anthem.wooz.org>

    >> Considering that I write 10k-50k lines of Python a day . . .

    > Fifty thousand lines?  Okay, assume each line has two words,
    > that's 100,000 words.  Now assume you type at 100 words per
    > minute, and never stop to think.  That's *over 16 hours* of
    > typing.  Per day.

    > Are you counting blank lines here?  Maybe counting code reuse?
    > Do you never sleep?

First, you must realize that sleep is a corporatist plot.  They want
you to sleep so that They can sell you all kinds of unnecessary
consumer products like "pillows" (really brain squashing devices),
"night lights" (bioluminescent retina scanners and greed-dream
inducing machines), and "blankies" (hitch-hiking freedom thumb
nubilizers).  Saint Nancy Reagan almost had it right:

    "Sleep, just say no"

Second, when you nightly eat as much pasta and pork rinds as I do, you
occasionally fall into a stupor that appears as sleep to uninitiated
outside observers.  For those situations, I have perfected the art of
"sleep-hacking" (or, more correctly, "trance-hacking").

A drop or two of Elmers on the palms, the insertion of the neck
stabilizers down my custom fitted swine-bib, and my hands stay nicely
centered on the home row while the blood flees my brain in buckets for
the throbbing warm center of my wheat-and-pig digesting stomach.  When
I shake myself up from this catatonia 12 hours later, I find that I've
written well close to 70-80k words.  So you can clearly see that I am
much more productive in this state than in my "normal" waking and
moving around state, where I have to deal with other unfortunate
biological urges.

still-trying-to-perfect-my-sleep/eat-clone-ly y'rs, - frank



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Aug 30 03:06:51 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:06:51 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Gate Oxide thickness of CMOS
In-Reply-To: <69fbfcd3.0108291911.76f12106@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010830090651.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 30-Aug-2001 Shashi Deepa Arcot wrote:
 >    I would like to know the following details for a CMOS
 >  1.gate oxide thickness
 >  2.The Number of masks
 >  3.Number of transistors per chip

Hmm, I guess you'll have to take your question somewhere else. This is 
a NG/mailing-list for a programming language called Python.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    30-Aug-2001
Time:    09:05:37

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug  4 11:20:54 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:20:54 -0500
Subject: Installing MySQL-python-0.9.0.tar.gz
In-Reply-To: <3B6B71F6.55008365@umdnj.edu>
References: <3B6B71F6.55008365@umdnj.edu>
Message-ID: <15212.4822.201861.346309@beluga.mojam.com>

    Andrey> I am a newbie and I don't have any experience with instaling
    Andrey> modules. I attepmted to install the MySQL-python-0.9.0.tar.gz
    Andrey> package on a Darwin machine. I set all paths correctly, but when
    Andrey> I try to install it says that it's unable to locate the Python.h
    Andrey> file. What is this file and where should it be? 

Andrey,

I'm not sure what a Darwin machine is (MacOS X?), but make sure you have
both runtime and development packages installed.  On Redhat-derived Linux
systems Python is packaged in two or more pieces (typically "python" and
"python-devel").  It sounds like you don't have the development package
installed.  If Python is in /usr/bin/python, Python.h is probably in
/usr/include/pythonX.Y, where X.Y is the version number (e.g. "2.1").

If you built Python yourself, make sure you have it installed properly.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From Michael at RCP.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 03:02:23 2001
From: Michael at RCP.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:02:23 +0100
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should appl
	y to *nix, too)
Message-ID: <217F6DFA440ED111ACDA00A0C906B00601AAE702@arsenic.rcp.co.uk>

(I'm not on python-list; evidently need to change this.  In fact, where is
this list?  It doesn't appear on http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html
)

This is the source in my version of Python: the interpreter comes up
reporting 

Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

I don't understand the solution you're describing, unless process_request is
now guaranteed to call close_request.  My solution was to split the handling
into two parts:

	1.	Get the incoming request; this is synchronous
	2.	Process the received request; it should be possible to move
*all* this processing into a separate thread.

The 2.1.1 solution you quote doesn't look right to me, in particular cleanup
and error handling in the presence of a separate thread looks doubtful.

-----Original Message-----
From: brueckd at tbye.com [mailto:brueckd at tbye.com]
Sent: 29 August 2001 17:20
To: Michael Abbott
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should
apply to *nix, too)


On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Michael Abbott wrote:

> > def handle_request(self):
> >     try:
> >         request, client_address = self.get_request()
> >     except socket.error:
> >         return
> >     if self.verify_request(request, client_address):
> >         try:
> >             # this will start a new thread
> >             self.process_request(request, client_address)
> >         except:
> >             self.handle_error(request, client_address)
> >     # this will close the socket still in use by the new thread
> >     self.close_request(request)

What version of Python is this? 1.5.2 and 2.0 don't have the close_request
call at all. Python 2.1.1 has:

  ...
  try:
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  except:
    self.handle_error(request, client_address)
    self.close_request(request)

Note the indentation - the close_request call happens only after an
exception gets raised, and so the threading mix-in works fine. Has yours
been modified or do I just have a different version than you?

> > Solution:

Instead of that long solution why don't you just change the indentation of
close_request? Or, subclass TCPServer and implement your own
handle_request that doesn't call close_request at the end. Then you can
use the threading mixin. Either way, it's a lot less work.

-Dave



From scott_hathaway at riskvision.com  Thu Aug  2 15:06:31 2001
From: scott_hathaway at riskvision.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:06:31 -0500
Subject: wierd asp problem
Message-ID: <3b69a492.0@216.0.152.7>

I am trying to use Python (the latest version from ActiveState) with ASP on
IIS 5.

Here is the wierd problem I am having.  If I use:

<%@ language=Python %>
<%
class standard_template:
    br = "<br>"
    textColor   = "black"
    bgColor     = "white"

etc...

Things work fine.  If I try:

<script runat=server language=Python >
class standard_template:
    br = "<br>"
    textColor   = "black"
    bgColor     = "white"

etc...

I get:

Error Type:
Python ActiveX Scripting Engine (0x80020009)
Traceback (innermost last): IndentationError: expected an indented block
(line 2)
/asptemplates/standard_template.asp

I need to use the <script sytax because I need to include this class (and
use it) from VBScript in ASP.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Scott




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 05:37:36 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:37:36 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au> <9l0fu80287j@enews4.newsguy.com> <cp66bv46jk.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l2ugf2egu@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cp66bv46jk.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
> While I probably introduced this myself (pickle uses it), I have one
> reservation.  Assignment to self.__class__ is unique to Python -- it's
> not an idiom one can easily translate to other languages.  It's also a
> relatively new Python feature (I don't even know if Jython supports

Yep, no problems:

D:\jython>jython
Jython 2.0 on java1.3.0_02 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class X: pass
...
>>> x=X()
>>> x
<__main__.X instance at 4848023>
>>> class Y: pass
...
>>> x.__class__=Y
>>> x
<__main__.Y instance at 4848023>
>>>

I believe Ruby and Perl both have the powerful (if rarely used)
"change class dynamically" feature.  It would be a pity if Python,
which introduced it, were now to lose it.  A similar feature was a
*hair-breadth away* from making it into early C++, according
to Stroustrup's "Design and evolution" book -- he seriously
considered the possibility of an object referring to its own
'base-object' via a pointer (as is done in virtual inheritance)
with the ability to change that pointer in the fly (leading to a
recomputation of virtual tables) -- he eventually gave it up,
with some regrets, for performance considerations (possibility
of 100%-performance being always a high priority in C++'s
evolution -- specifically, zero mandatory overhead being imposed
on code _not_ using some advanced feature).

I call the feature 'rarely used', but others may use it less
rarely.  Moshe Zadka, for example, has advocated that a
class-change is the right way to 'customize' a specific
instance, rather than adding a method to the instance itself
on the fly (I'm not quite sure why, and wouldn't want to
misrepresent his position, but I believe it has to do with a
wish to see behavior as associated with _classes_, not with
_instances_).


> But maybe more importantly, I don't know how to support this esoteric
> feature after the type/class unification is complete.  Under the new
> system, not all instances are born the same: instances may have slots
> for instance variables rather than a __dict__ -- using slots makes for
> more space-efficient instances.  (Having a __dict__ is still the
> default, and an instance can have both slots and a __dict__.)

So presumably not just ANY class-object may be assigned as
the __class__ attribute of a given instance: there will be a type
error if the class and the instance don't agree on slots/dictionary
use.  Can't this be checked at runtime when some
    instance.__class__ = anewclass
is attempted?  If this check slows down this specific esoteric
feature this shouldn't be a problem.  I'm not sure if the exact
needed constraint is _identity_ of slots in the original and new
class objects (I realize the slots are in the *instance* object,
but the _code_ to set or access them is in the class object,
right?) -- offhand it would seem so (if the slot assignment is
identical surely there should be no problems -- if the instance
has extra slots the new class would not know how to access
them, if the instance lacks some slots the class thinks are
there it should be even worse).  It seems to me it would be
better to keep the possibility of assigning __class__ even just
for old/new classes with identical slots/dictionary use, with
a TypeError (or some new specific subclass of it) in case of
any difference, rather than losing such assignment altogether.

Of course, such a change would still invalidate the specific
use of class assignment that I was making here, since the
'empty instance' I started with was of a class with no slots.
But, as you say, fortunately this specific idiom is being
replaced by a more direct new one:

> Fortunately, the type/class unification has a different idiom
> available to avoid __init_: __new__.  There are two parts to object
> construction, __new__ and __init__.  __new__ is a class method, and
> constructs a minimal object.  After __new__ has returned an
> instance,__init__ is called to further initialize the instance.  At
> least that's what the normal constructor (calling the class) does.
> You can call __new__ directly to construct an instance bypassing
> __init__.

An excellent alternative indeed!


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug  5 19:30:05 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:30:05 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <3B6DD1D0.C044E320@Lugoj.Com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAELCLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> The meaning of division a program needs depends entirely on
> context.  Any meaning is "wrong" in some programming contexts.

[James Logajan]
> Oops. Talk about scorched earth arguments. Given that, I think you've
> just made it an issue decided by a preponderance of opinion (i.e. a
> vote).

Of course it's opinion, but it's still not open to voting.  On the rare
occasions Guido asks for a vote, it's about matters of opinion he doesn't
care about.  Clear example:  whether to use "i" or "j" to denote an
imaginary literal.  The flames on that were endless, Guido didn't care, he
asked for a vote, a majority picked "j", and that was that.

> Unless you and/or Guido admit to knowledge of all possible programming
> contexts?

No more than you do, apparently <wink>.

> (What harm do you believe befalls Python if nothing is done?)

Read Guido's postings on the topic:  he explained it repeatedly.  I'm not
playing parrot on this issue anymore, and it doesn't matter one whit what
*I* think about it.

he-didn't-ask-me-to-vote-either-ly y'rs  - tim




From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 06:22:31 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:22:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270600370.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270621020.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> If you can't guarantee that they're in the same order, then you'll have to
> create some sort of class to hold the three tuples and return a value from
> __hash__() that will be the same when the three nodes are in any order, but
> not for nodes that have different values.

Or you can put them in lists, sort them, and then convert the list to a tuple:

>>> a=[(1,2,3),(7,5,9),(4,8,6)]
>>> a.sort()
>>> tuple(a)
((1, 2, 3), (4, 8, 6), (7, 5, 9))

I hate it when I realize a better solution after I send the e-mail ;)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 25 02:04:09 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:04:09 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
References: <mailman.998706141.30883.python-list@python.org> <toef3be6ln5ob8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xzo8ok752.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> writes:
> Why do you want to do this? Aren't there enough ways of
> confusing yourself without adding a method of lying to yourself
> about your input parameters?

There was a thread about this a few days ago.  The idea is to run a
command with a password on the command line, and not have the password
stay visible to "ps" through the whole time the process is running.


From jwbaxter at spamcop.com  Sat Aug 11 18:03:46 2001
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:03:46 -0700
Subject: Py 1.5.2 -> Py 2.1.1 broke regular expression?
References: <mailman.997562539.29253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <110820011503467351%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>

In article <mailman.997562539.29253.python-list at python.org>, Roman Suzi
<rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Stefan Schwarzer wrote:
> 
> >Hello
> >
> >I have a program which _ran fine with Python 1.5.2_ but fails with Python
> >2.1.1. Its purpose is to extract IRC log sessions from several log files
> >and sort them into one file in the correct order (by date/time).
> >
> >To do this, it uses (in effect) something like
> >  re.compile(pattern).findall(log_lines)
> >
> >That works fine with the pattern string
> >  ^Session Start: \w{3} \w{3} .*?^Session Close: \w{3} \w{3} .*?$
> >but raises a
> >  RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit exceeded
> >in re.compile(pattern).findall(log_lines) when used with the pattern
> >  ^IRC log started \w{3} \w{3} .*?(?=\012IRC log started \w{3} \w{3} |\Z)
> >
> >First, I thought it was because of the number of IRC sessions but the program
> >fails with the second pattern even for few (5) sessions. It used to handle
> >much larger numbers.
> >
> >Any hints? A bug or a change in the regular syntax; anything else?
> 
> I too encounterd such problem even without "(?=" construct... and it
> healed itself when I reduced the number of lines in the file.
> I was in hurry and forgot to record conditions of trouble.
> But I remember I too used cross-end-of-line patterns ("\n"-s)
> but not \Z.
> 
> It is not safe in Python 2.x to let re's loose on some big file.

Well, there is this from the Library Reference page for the re module
(it's still there in the 2.1 documentation...I don't know what "future"
is here):

Implementation note: The re?module has two distinct implementations:
sre is the default implementation and includes Unicode support, but may
run into stack limitations for some patterns. Though this will be fixed
for a future release of Python, the older implementation (without
Unicode support) is still available as the pre?module.

I think Stefan has found an instance of "some patterns".

I suppose the first thing to try would be to import and use pre rather
than re .

  --John


From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Sun Aug  5 05:34:30 2001
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:34:30 GMT
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
References: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com> <20010804.134859.653468858.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <20010804.135022.2086206725.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <3b6d1309.1942760@news.utanet.at>

On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:42:38 GMT, "Mark Nenadov"
<mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca> wrote:

Hello Mark,

>[..]
>> In my experiences wxPython is more powerful of a GUI library. I think
>> wxPython is much more modern. However, there are tradeoffs. Tkinter is
>> supplied with most Python distributions, while wxPython is not.
>> Performance wise, I would guess that wxPython is faster than Tkinter
>> because it doesn't have to go through the intermediate step of "Tcl". I
>> have found that working with the wxPython API was much nicer than
>> Tkinter, but your experience may vary :)
>[..]

thanks for your interesting contribution!
--
Franz Steinh?usler
franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 09:21:42 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:21:42 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <9jmjne$q54$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <3b602daf.1623450@nntp.sprynet.com> <slrn9m111q.e6f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <dOoGUKA3PKY7EwWa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <cpsnfi2z9w.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <$dK+wKA$tZY7Ewin@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <3b61a98d$0$11917@wodc7nh0.news.uu.net> <3B61B01F.6C6B2B5D@Lugoj.Com> <6c8b7eb9.0107271358.4783d9c1@posting.google.com> <3B66F89E.77E64413@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9k8vpd0hn2@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B66F89E.77E64413 at ccvcorp.com...
    ...
> problem, that inspired such FUD, was the lack of a clearly explained
rationale
    ...
> In short, I think we should all try to have a little more faith in Guido,
even
if we don't
> agree with all of his proposals.  His design instincts have proved to be
right,

Right.  Guido's forte is doing the right thing, as opposed to
rationalizing WHY it's right.  I'd rather have the right
thing, with weak rationale, than a botch that's rationalized
to perfection (which is what would happen if _I_ were the
BDFL, perish the thought).

[Always excepting print>> of course...:-)]


Alex





From hnowak at cuci.nl  Mon Aug 27 07:17:44 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:17:44 +0200
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
Message-ID: <3B946CF8@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From Marcus Stojek <stojek at part-gmbh.de> =====
>
>Okay, here is what I do. I have two files (ASCII), each of them
>containing a huge amount (let's say 100.000) triangles. The format is:
>
>Number of triangle,number of first node, number of second node , number
>of third node \n
>
>node are corners of the triangle here. Each node has three coordinates in
>space, but we don't need them here.
>
>The two files are describing exactly the same group of triangles, but the
>triangles are numbered differently in the two files. So the triangle
>containing the nodes (12,49583,331) has the number 5 in one file and the
>number 23094 in the other one. As two triangles can share two nodes I
>have to compare all three nodes for all triangles.
>
>I have two dictonaries:
>
>trione={number triangel:1.node,2.node,3.node}
>(key and values are integer)
>tritwo=as trione
>
>def common(list1,list2):
>    hit=0
>    for i in list1:
>        for j in list2:
>            if i==j:
>                hit +=1
>    return hit

This implies that the nodes can appear in varying orders, e.g. (1, 2, 3) is 
the same node as (3, 2, 1) etc. I don't know how much control you have over 
the *creation* of the ASCII files, but if you can somehow make sure the orders 
of the nodes in both files are the same, there's room for considerable 
optimization:

def common(list1,list2):
    hit=0
    if list1 == list2:
        hit = 3 # faking the original value
    return hit

If you cannot change the files, I'm not sure if it's feasible to give them a 
fixed order when reading the files into the dictionary, e.g. by sorting the 
node part. I haven't tested this, so this may just move the delay to a 
different place without resulting in any overall performance increase.

Aside from this, I haven't found many possibilities for optimization. I made a 
test set and tried moving the tritwo.keys() out of the outer loop, and using 
lists instead of dicts... this did not result in better performance. :(  That 
does not mean nothing can be done though; maybe someone else on this list has 
a clever idea.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 11:39:03 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:39:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python runs fine interactively but 'locks up' with scripts
In-Reply-To: <20010830162416.B664@10.am>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301137270.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, mallum wrote:

> Hi all;
>
> I recently build Python 2.1.1 against uClibc for a low specced ( 16mg ram,
> 200mhz ) ARM cpu Linux box .
>
> Python runs fine interactively, I can import modules and run simple
> scripts ok. However when I try a launch a python script ( such as one
> of the tests in the distrubution ), Python just 'locks up', not even
> recieving a control-c . The box is still alive and appears to have
> memory still available ( ~ 5 mb ).
>
> I've tried running with -v and python is indeed importing modules etc,
> but then it just stops and not on any particular module.
>
> Any one have any ideas on why this is happening ? Or can anyone
> suggest any avenues of investigation ?
>
> Many thanks;
>
> Mallum

Have you tried compiling against glibc or dietlibc
(http://www.fefe.de/dietlibc/)?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Wed Aug  1 19:49:19 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:49:19 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:32:56 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
>In article <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
><tim.one at home.com> writes

>No matter who decided what it seems clear that the decision to go to /
>as float had already been taken long before the flamefest took place.

Pretty much.

>That makes python's development somewhat less than democratic.

Nope; it makes it *other* than democratic.  The way you go on one would
think that was a bad thing; actually, it's not.

>We get the chance to shout, but the DFL has already made the decision. In
>other words we get to take part in the decision making process if our
>views coincide with the dictator's.

No.  We get to use the result of Guido's decision process.  We also get to
provide him feedback for his decisions (if we want to).  At no point do we
get to be part of the decision-making process.  This is just like real
life -- if you want something done right, give ONE competant person the
responsibility and authority to do it.

>At some point the DFL will make a decision that's wrong. I suppose the
>herd will have another group hug and accept it.

Guido's _already_ made a decision that's wrong -- he decided to make "/"
have an ambiguous meaning.  He's now trying to fix his mistake.  Pretty
cool, huh?  So, do you have a better solution than the one he's proposing?

If so, propose it here (and someone will hopefully make a PEP of it).  If
not, let's talk about solutions.  But for goodness' sake, don't waste your
time whining about "democracy".  Especially when "democracy" means
"whiners have veto power over anything."

>Robin Becker

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From me at mikerobin.com  Mon Aug 13 17:48:41 2001
From: me at mikerobin.com (Michael Robin)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:48:41 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <m15VuqI-000wcBC@swing.co.at> <mailman.997702822.11005.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <52e5ab5f.0108131348.74a297dd@posting.google.com>

I think this is a good tradeoff.
I use Python becuase of its source availibility, clarity, and strong
run-time support. (And the possibility of using JPython in the
future.)
All IMHO, of course, but the two things that I don't like the extreme
dynamicism and (lack of) run-time speed. Yes, I can write a C
extension, but as fast as it is to code in Python, its all that much
faster if I don't have to.
I like to think that *most of the time* obj.attr gets a obj reference
from a slot (if possible) or a dict-like object (at worst), and that
obj.fn() does something more. I think counter examples should be made
explicit by something like __dynamic__=1. (I know that in this case
we're dealing with attr names - similar issue.) Personally, I like to
use an explict fn call syntax for *anything* that activates user-level
code for this reason.
Judicious use of __getattr__s and __call__s, et. al., can made code
pretty unreadable when x += 1 can potentially re-format your hard
drive.
In "mini-language building languages" such as Prolog and various
LISPs, this extreme dynamic nature is more expected, and they also
have the benefits of re-configurable parsers and extensive macro
capibilities, respectivily, so that your app-specific semantics also
have their own syntax, as apposed to "overloading" Python's. In the
future more meta-language (different than meta-classes which are *in*
the language) features may also be added to python.
Python (Mr. van Rossum, tell me if I'm wrong) was never billed as a
laguage construction kit, but a "get it done" language. (Insofaras
these features do help you "get it done", that's good - but there's
usually a more explict way to do things.) The fact that you may be
able to emulate Actor or CLOS/Loops/Flavors or Scheme/Dylan or
Smalltalk, etc., may be intersting, but was never garanteed. There is
a tradeoff between referential transparency/dynamicism and
understandable code. Another issue is the ability to translate to
other languages (including a C extension).

Anyhoo, this "power" isn't being taken away, just made explicit, which
seems in-line with Python's meta-goals from the start.

I understand that the reasons that people use languages is personal
and fluid - just my current 2 cents for this moment...

mike

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.997702822.11005.python-list at python.org>...
> [Christian Tanzer]
> > Would it be possible to possible to write a meta-class allowing the
> > dynamic change of __class__? And if so, how difficult would that be?
> 
> That would be possible if you're willing to write it in C.  It would
> be somewhat difficult if you wanted to make sure that abuse couldn't
> lead to core dumps, because you'd have to implement a hairy check
> (which I haven't figured out yet but which I believe is possible in
> principle) that determines whether the old and the new __class__ have
> compatible instance structure.
> 
> > I'd like to support the proposal of Glyph and Alex to make 0 the
> > default for `__dynamic__`. IMHO, optimization should be restricted to
> > those few modules where it is really necessary.
> 
> See my response earlier in this thread.
> 
> > Dynamicity is one of the really strong points of Python -- eye popping
> > as Glyph just called it.
> 
> Eye popping can be a negative point too.  I'd prefer a warning before
> my eyes are popped.
> 
> > > Understood.  Nevertheless, all evidence suggests that Twisted is not
> > > typical Python code. :-)
> > 
> > What is typical? I'd assume that a tiny percentage of Python code uses
> > the really dynamic features.
> 
> Tiny indeed.
> 
> > OTOH, this tiny percentage might itself be used by a lot of other
> > code. At least in my applications some modules do make use of some
> > eye-popping features and they tend to be used all over the place.
> 
> Because __dynamic__ is inherited, if you inherit from an eye-popping
> class, your class will automatically be eye-popping too.
> 
> > Please be careful in this crusade... The language you *wanted* to design
> > might have been not quite as
> > excellent/wonderful/<insert-your-favorite-exclamation-of-insane-
> > greatness-here> as the one you came up instead :-) 
> 
> Please trust me...  The changes I have in mind might not be so
> devastating for Python's beauty as you seem to be thinking. :-)
> 
> > I wouldn't mind if I had to ask for some dynamic features more
> > explicitly than now but I'd really be hard hit if they went away
> > entirely. I'd love to get better performance but not at the price of
> > loosing all this dynamicism. I if wanted to use a non-dynamic language
> > I'd know way too many candidates vying to make my life unhappy <0.1
> > wink>
> 
> Some people like Python for its extreme dynamicism.  But there are
> other languages in that niche (like Lisp).  Most people like Python
> because it's so darn readable and maintainable.  Unbridled dynamicism
> goes against that.  I am striving for a balance that allows most forms
> of dynamicism, but requires a declaration in advanced for the more
> extreme kinds.
> 
> > Separate explicit mechanisms would be much better than just dropping
> > dynamicism. In fact, despite the need for changing working code
> > <sigh>, making an external change of a module explicit would probably
> > be a good thing.
> 
> Exactly.  I'm not planning to drop dynamicism -- I'm planning to make
> it more explicit.
> 
> > Maybe module objects could even grow `get-set` magic in the process
> > <duck>.
> 
> You probably don't realize it, but you can write modules with get/set
> magic now, by stuffing an instance in sys.modules[__name__].
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 04:20:44 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:20:44 +0200
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998804559.5680.python-list@python.org> <9md62v01ne3@enews1.newsguy.com> <ac677656.0108291503.4d211cd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mkt0t01cno@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tom Good" <Tom_Good1 at excite.com> wrote in message
news:ac677656.0108291503.4d211cd6 at posting.google.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:<9md62v01ne3 at enews1.newsguy.com>...
> > Currying-to-argumentlessness is a frequent enough need
> > (since Tk &c all want lots of argumentless callables)
> > that one may want to rename 'curry_to_argumentlessness'
> > to something more concise and put it in sitecustomize
> > or thereabouts.
>
> How about 'curry_all'?
>
> . . . 'curry_extra_spicy' comes to mind, too, but it is too many
characters :-)

Another frequent need, almost as frequent as currying all
arguments, is currying all but one, to get a one-argument
callable suitable for filter (or map -- it seems to me that
most of my map calls are with 1-arg callables).  Problem
with this is that there's no obvious syntax to specify
which one argument you want left "free" (uncurried) -- I
think that hardwiring it to the first one would cover a
majority of cases, but far from all.   Hmmmm....


Alex





From guido at python.org  Fri Aug 10 09:14:14 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:14:14 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com> <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org> <cpsnf090x8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l07gd01rjn@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cp8zgs3vor.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> > Hm.  How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
> > letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can
> 
> That would be wonderful, but I think it would still require a from
> __future__
> for one release.

Let me try to argue against this.  A future statement is a big stick.
It requires a relatively large amount of effort on the implementation
side, and every user has to add a fairly ugly thing to their code if
they want the new feature.  Also, if I may believe the arguments that
were used against changing division, one release wouldn't be enough,
since many people may make the jump right from
1.5.2 to 2.7 (for example).

I'm trying hard to make the type/class unification sufficiently
backwards compatible that it won't need a future statement; instead, I
try to look for more subtle clues.  For example, in order to declare a
new-style class, you use "class C(object)" or "__metaclass__ = type".

Regarding dir(): 

I'm expecting that uses of dir() fall in two categories: interactive
use, and programming tools.  A future statement won't help interactive
use -- you just have to retrain your fingers, big deal.  Programming
tools are generally specific to a particular version anyway, and can
easily be updated (they don't stay behind when the programmer leaves).

The docs for dir() are very vague; code depending on a particular
behavior must necessarily be built on observation.  For example, I'm
not particularly concerned with breaking pydoc or PyChecker -- these
are apps that heavily rely on introspection, and their authors were
aware that they were walking on thin ice.  It's easy enough to fix
these.

I'd really like to see how people are using dir() in code that would
break if it suddenly started to return all attributes; what kind of
harm could be done?

I could also change dir() to return either the keys of the instance
dict or the keys of the class dict, whichever is found first.  That
would be even closer to the old behavior, yet still more rational.

If this is really unacceptable, an alternative to a future statement
would be to provide the new implementation of dir() in a separate
module (not __future__).  In the past, for years the built-in dir()
was much less powerful (it only worked on modules), and there was a
module "newdir" that provided a dir() function along the lines of the
current one.  This is much less work than a future statement because
every change to the future statement requires some modifications to
the parser so that it can issue a proper diagnostic.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Tue Aug 28 19:54:15 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:54:15 +1000
Subject: Unicode to String in python language
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010828235415Z-59713@emi1.EMI>

Hi all,

The function win32net.NetUserEnum(None,2,filter,resume) return all the 
information of users and I loop in through the list and get User Name 
and Full name and then I sort the list on Full name but then I got 
this error "can only concatenate list (not "unicode") to list "


What is the command use to convert the Unicode to String ??

Thanks in advance,




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 06:58:47 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:58:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: test, and password generator
In-Reply-To: <3B8B1CC5.80908@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108280656560.27782-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Will Ware wrote:

> Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> > If you're running linux, you should get random data by reading bytes
> > from /dev/urandom.
>
> That would be better. But whenever I test things like this, I get
> compulsive and run it so many times that I exhaust the entropy pool,
> and then my read() of /dev/random just sits there. I'd be curious to
> know if you have any clever thoughts on replenishing the entropy
> pool quicker without losing much security.

In the Linux kernel mailing list they have a patch going around that can add
to entropy in /dev/random from your network traffic. Grab the patch, stream
MP3s between machines, and have fun :)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From guido at zope.com  Wed Aug  1 13:37:56 2001
From: guido at zope.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:37:56 -0400
Subject: 2.2 features
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:15:27 PDT."
             <3B682B1F.DCE56009@ActiveState.com> 
References: <mailman.996258542.15795.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4u16rx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996270412.11895.python-list@python.org> <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996616382.9383.python-list@python.org> <cpsnfcxwrw.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>  
            <3B682B1F.DCE56009@ActiveState.com> 
Message-ID: <200108011737.NAA21028@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > 
> >....
> > 
> > Sorry, this isn't worth adding new syntax.  The 'in' thing worked
> > because a in b is already mapped to b.__contains__(a).
> 
> First, you may be right that it isn't worth adding new syntax but it
> also isn't worth abusing existing syntax. Types are usually nouns that
> do NOT directly represent sets. "int" is different from "the set of
> ints" and "programmer" different from the "set of programmers".

Linguistically, yes.  But mathematically, describing a type as a set
of values is often used (and it explains a subtype as a subset of a
type).

> Second, I think that this might be worth adding new syntax for one
> reason. The current syntax for exception-type trapping is extremely
> error prone and nasty and it is essentially the same problem. I could
> imagine:
> 
> try:
>     foo()
> except exc isa OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError:
>     pass

I find 'isa' ugly (it's not an existing word and unless you're from a
very specific culture you won't recognize it).  I agree that except
has this flaw, but I don't want to tie solving it to this discussion
(i.e. I don't want to talk about it in *this* thread).

> Nevertheless, I'd rather see the abuse of "in" removed even if it leaves
> the exception problem untouched.

Done.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Fri Aug 24 19:37:37 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:37:37 +0100
Subject: Image manipulation
Message-ID: <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3@4ax.com>

Hi, I want to be able to read in a png/jpeg and then write it out
resized with proper antialiasing etc.  I've looked on the vaults of
parnassus and there seem to be quite a few things that do this, is
there a "best" one?  Is there something in the standard lib that's up
to this?

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From trelis at mindspring.com  Sun Aug 12 14:20:00 2001
From: trelis at mindspring.com (jsnyder)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:20:00 -0400
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9l4b510251b@enews4.newsguy.com> <9l4ge0$m0q$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9l5jsd0llq@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9l6hfi$mcg$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

> If you're using IDLE, you're not "running from Pythonwin"... Pythonwin
> is a different IDE from IDLE!
>

So I now know.  Thanks for introducing me to yet another part of Python.

-Joe




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 06:10:50 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:10:50 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question About Python
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78C01A@intrepid>

> From:	Fumari [SMTP:Fumari at yahoo.com]
> Ive been starting to learn Python by looking over some tuts linked from
> the offical site.  Now it seems to me Python is like perl as in the
> system must have perl installed in order to run the program? is this
> correct, in python you right out the code then command line it?  Is
> there a way to make an exe file?
 
There are ways of 'boxing up' your script, the scripts and DLLs that your
script needs, and the Python executable - see
<http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/> for a example.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug  3 15:50:13 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:50:13 GMT
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
References: <mailman.996817505.6289.python-list@python.org> <ssya7.78137$Cy.11439637@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <VfDa7.66745$EP6.15377445@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote in message
news:ssya7.78137$Cy.11439637 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
> Although I do think it would be easier to read if the order of the
test and
> the generator was reversed:
>
> for f in Count(20, Test(isGif,  Files('.'))): print f
>
> I may just have a weak mind, but on the first version, I lost track
of who
> the 20 belonged to by the time I got to the end.

I noticed the same.   A genpipe wrapping rclass would give us the very
clear:

for f in gen(Files('.')).Test(isGif).Count(20)

My untested idea for genpipe:

class genpipe:
  def __init__(self, generator):
    self.gen = generator #sanity check omitted
  def Test(self, pred):
    self.gen = _Test(self.gen, pred) # ditto for Count and other
filters
  def __iter__(self):
    return self.gen.next

Terry J. Reedy






From trong-anh.tran at wanadoo.fr  Tue Aug  7 08:27:23 2001
From: trong-anh.tran at wanadoo.fr (trong anh tran)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:27:23 +0200
Subject: How do I use ssh in python?
Message-ID: <9koma6$d8f$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hello,
Thank a lot!




From scott_hathaway at riskvision.com  Mon Aug 13 16:20:48 2001
From: scott_hathaway at riskvision.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:20:48 -0500
Subject: simple question about classes
Message-ID: <3b783669.0@216.0.152.7>

If I have a class, is there a way to iterate through the name of all of the
properties (public variables) of the class which would include public vars
that were added at the time of instantiation?

class a():
    getPublicVars(self):
        # loop here that prints each variable and it's value


myClassVar = a()
myClassVar.color = 'red'
myClassVar.style='antique'
myClassVar.getPublicVars()

Can this be done (I realize that it is probably very simple)?  If so, can
someone give me a code snippet that does the loop above?


Thanks,
Scott




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug  4 13:59:31 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:59:31 -0400
Subject: CMM certified companies (was Re: Q: Code Review Checklist?)
References: <mailman.996921727.14734.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6C3803.C01630A0@engcorp.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> 
> ... PSP seem to be some kind of personal
> SEI CMM. AFAIK, there is only one or two companies which are toplevel
> in CMM. IIRC, Motorola is/was one of them.

IIRC, CMM certification applies to specific groups, *not* to every
development group throughout an organization.  I do know that 
Motorola is *not* level 5 CMM throughout.  One of their development
groups in India is, but in no way is the entire company level 5.

(I've also heard rumors that that particular group was certified
level 5 effectively before they had finished any projects, and
once they really got going the whole thing fell apart.  I have
no proof of this, but were it true it would imply that CMM
certification, as with ISO 9001, can be used to show that the
documented process meets precise requirements while providing 
no practical value or assurance of success.)

As far as I know, no group in Motorola uses Python in any 
significant way.  (A pathetic attempt to keep this on-topic. :-)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Wed Aug  1 08:03:26 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 12:03:26 GMT
Subject: Python & wxPython on Solaris 2.6
References: <n4i87.1113$bl1.180691@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9mfs0e.fhq.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:06:11 GMT, Doug Farrell <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote:
>and it seems to build a Makefile okay. But when I run make I get errors.
>Some of which are caused by space characters where there should only be tabs
>in the Makefile. When I fix these I still get errors as it looks like the
>Makefile doesn't know how to build all the *.o files.

 It would probably be useful to send the error log (although probably not here
as it hardly has anything to do with Python - try comp.soft-sys.wxwindows
instead), but from what you say it seems that your distribution has got
corrupted somehow. There are definitely no spaces in the makefile. OTOH you
*must* use GNU make (gmake) to build wxGTK, native make doesn't work.

 Regards,
VZ
-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 11:59:05 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:59:05 +0200
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
In-Reply-To: <oqae1548j3.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <1212619.RQshPE9Mp6@lunix.schabi.de> <oqae1548j3.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <01081217590502.00440@lunix>

Hi,

Am Sonntag 12 August 2001 17:12 schrieb Fran?ois Pinard:
> [Markus Schaber]
>
> > I just use "..." for strings and '...' chars (Strings containing
> > one char - this comes from Java where Chars can be given this way),
>
> It might not be a good thing transporting all style habits from one
> language to another.  In C or Java, it is true you did not have the
> choice. In Python, you could put the acquired freedom to good use,
> instead of forever and patiently pulling your prisoner's bullet with
> you :-).

Well - sometimes I just want to express that I want a single char, as 
opposite to a string with length 1. So I use the freedom to choose 
between two possibilities to express this, and to not have to learn a 
new style.

> I quite understand that writing styles are acquired with
> non-negligible efforts, and grow their own worth because of this. 
> So, it is only normal trying to recycle the most we can from them
> when wandering between languages. On the other hand, some distance
> between styles for various languages does help avoiding
> cross-confusion, it eases your own "context switching" as a
> programmer, by having it more marked and less fuzzy.

My context-switching is fully triggered by the great absence of type- 
and variable declarations just as {}s for code blocks. :-)

markus

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)



From yann.chachkoff at mailandnews.com  Thu Aug 30 09:00:58 2001
From: yann.chachkoff at mailandnews.com (Chachkoff Yann)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:00:58 -0400
Subject: Building Python as a shared lib plugin.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281731260.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281731260.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <01083009005800.01483@localhost.localdomain>

> > > The '-Xlinker' tells gcc to pass '-export-dynamic' to ld. gcc itself
> > > seems to ignore it otherwise.
> >
> > I of course tried this first (I always read manuals before working). It
> > does not work. I tried the following one:
> >
> > $(CC) $(FLAGS) -shared -Wl,-soname,plugin_python.so.0 $(OBJECTS)
> > ../common/libcross.a -Xlinker -export-dynamic
> > /usr/lib/python2.0/config/libpython2.0.a -lpthread -lutil -ldmalloc -o
> > plugin_python.so.0.1

> Sorry, in tests that I did gcc silently ignored '-export-dynamic' when
> passed to it, so I thought that that might have been the problem.
>
I think I need to apologize myself... Your idea was good indeed, and I had 
been unclear in my terms. I thank you for your support.

> OTOH...
>
> From the ld man page:
>
> "
>        --whole-archive
>               For each archive mentioned on the command line  af?
>               ter  the  --whole-archive option, include every ob?
>               ject file in the archive in the link,  rather  than
>               searching  the  archive  for  the  required  object
>               files.  This is normally used to  turn  an  archive
>               file into a shared library, forcing every object to
>               be included in the resulting shared library.
> "
>
> If I understand correctly, you may need to add '-Xlinker --whole-archive'
> before python2.0.a.

That's an idea I didn't tried before, so I did.
Unfortunately, it does not seemed to solve the problem - I always get the 
same error.
I did some new variations around; I replaced the "gcc" command with direct 
calls to "ld". I tried numerous combinations using --whole-archive, -E (and 
others too; for example, I tried to link in more than one line using -r to be 
able to "fine-tune" options for each linked library).
Whatever I did, the problem stayed the same.
I ask now a new question: has anyone already tried to make a shared library 
dynamically loaded with the Python interpreter ? Is it even possible (I 
suppose it is, but I do not know how) ? If yes, can you tell me where I am 
wrong ?

Chachkoff Y.



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Aug 24 02:59:30 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 02:59:30 -0400
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
References: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com> <ug0aiuqc6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <3B85E490.BD3FA223@eegsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <ubsl6uenh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Howard Lightstone <howard at eegsoftware.com> writes:

> (sample spots of stdout/stderr reference in pythonrun.c)

I think I understand better - I noticed those references (although
many are in the 1.5.2 source, but not in the latest 2.2 source - which
is the other one I have currently on my system - so you might always
try using a later version if possible), but figured they were on
pretty low level failure paths and shouldn't be a problem.

However, you're saying that the handles are simply invalid even to be
used in calls (which is true for a console-less application).  In my
previous post my embedding application was still console based, so I
wouldn't have run into this.

Have you tried looking at the PC/WinMain.c file, which is how pythonw
is built.  It has some code to specifically open handles 0, 1 and 2.
So if your code runs properly under pythonw, perhaps adding some
similar startup code to your embedding environment would permit the
same behavior?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 04:08:07 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:08:07 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <xSA77.59$bXi.175169024@news.telia.no> <memo.20010804014246.16469v@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kgnqa22p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Tim Rowe" <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.20010804014246.16469v at digitig.compulink.co.uk...
    ...
> > Introducing new features is probably a good thing in terms of letting
> > Python evolve as a language,
>
> I'm very sceptical about the value of adding features. I don't believe it
> lacks any. *Any*.

So instead of adding features let's remove restrictions.  And I don't
think you can state with a straight face that there aren't any
restrictions -- look at the complications such as StringIO vs cStringIO
and pickle vs cPickle that are forced by the restriction "thou shalt
not subclass a c-coded type":-).


Alex





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 11:37:51 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:37:51 -0500
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon>
References: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon>
Message-ID: <15237.9039.371782.802@beluga.mojam.com>

    Dave> However, I (and others here at work) do have some real concerns
    Dave> about the indentation feature. Basically we are quite worried
    Dave> about subtle but nasty bugs creeping in. 

In theory, it could be a problem.  In practice, it really never is.  My
recommendation would be that you give it a try and then come back to the
list if it proves to be a problem.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 02:27:28 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:27:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python for XML processing (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJNMDEKBIBCMCNMBDGEEOCDAA.karthikg@aztec.soft.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290209310.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Karthik Gurumurthy wrote:

> i have a question,
>
> i have written a few xml parsing stuff using python's xml library.
> I c'd get things done easily.
> I w'd greatly appreciate it if someone c'd point out the difference between
> using say a
> java parser like xerces and the one we have in the python library.
> any advantages?? etc?
> if it's about implemnting the same interface w'd ther be any major
> difference?
>
> thanks,
> karthik.

The q+d answer would be "It'd p'ly be faster".

After taking a look at the Xerces 2 homepage, I'd have to say that the next
difference is that Python's XML parser implementation doesn't support JAXP
(Java APIs for XML Processing). Of course, I wouldn't realy consider that a
problem ;)

DOM and SAX are more-or-less standard interfaces, so I'd consider Python and
Xerces (and every other XML parser in any language) to be the same on that
account.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From hnowak at cuci.nl  Wed Aug 22 10:09:41 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:09:41 +0200
Subject: base classes
Message-ID: <3B83DD23@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Pete" <pete at ipartners.pl> =====
>One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute called
>'a'
>class a1:
>    def __init__( self ):
>        self.a = 1
>class a2:
>    def __init__( self ):
>        self.a = 2
>class aa( a1, a2 ):
>    def __init__( self ):
>        a1.__init__( self )

Note that this creates a in the namespace of this instance, with value 1... 
(In other words, inspecting self.a would now yield the value 1.)

>        a2.__init__( self )

...and this re-creates it, overwriting the old value. The result is:

>AA = aa()
>print AA.__dict__
>--------------------------------------
>this code prints:
>{'a': 2}

>The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
>workaround?

If you want to work around it (and thus use both values defined by a1 and a2), 
try renaming the first a after a1.__init__, e.g.:

    def __init__( self ):
        a1.__init__( self )
        self.a1_a = self.a
        a2.__init__( self )
        print self.a1_a, self.a  # should print 1 and 2

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug  6 05:10:42 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:10:42 +0200
Subject: VIM Editor
References: <PEkb7.74005$EP6.17518826@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <9klmke$bgk$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Try using CygWin (POSIX + bash + vim + python +...hundreds of GNU softwares)
for Win32

www.cygwin.com


"Uncle Tom" <uncletom2106 at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
PEkb7.74005$EP6.17518826 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
> I hope this question is not too far off topic.  I am looking for a pre
> compiled binary of gvim (or console vim) for win32 with Python embedded.
> Does anyone know where I might find such a thing.
> Tks Bruce Golling (bwgolling at home.com)
>
>




From arundelo at mediaone.net  Sun Aug 19 03:25:59 2001
From: arundelo at mediaone.net (Aaron Brown)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 07:25:59 GMT
Subject: MSDOS/Windows program files
Message-ID: <bSJf7.10307$_q.197656@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>

I'm running Python 2.1.1 on Win98.  (My Linux box is down for
repairs.)  When I save and run a program file I get "SyntaxError:
invalid syntax" on whatever the last line happens to be, even if it's
a comment.  I assume that Python does not like whatever
end-of-file character is being put there, but interactive mode
reacts properly to ctrl-z.

It happens no matter whether I use EDIT or Notepad to create
the file.

Thank you for your help!

--Aaron Brown







From content-management at high-tech-communcations.com  Tue Aug 21 02:59:41 2001
From: content-management at high-tech-communcations.com (Victor Black)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:59:41 -0700
Subject: New web utility
Message-ID: <200108210659.f7L6xfl00961@mail.high-tech-communications.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010820/d35fa09f/attachment.html>

From mikeb at mitre.org  Mon Aug 13 23:02:43 2001
From: mikeb at mitre.org (Mike Brenner)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:02:43 -0400
Subject: Problem Re-running wxPython script under PythonWin
Message-ID: <3B7894D3.DA510CD0@mitre.org>

Double clicking on various wxPython scripts 
in Windows (NT, ME, 95, and 2000) works.

However, those same scripts, fail to run a 
second time when run from the 
Python WIndows Extensions Editor and Debugger.

The second time they are run they get the 
error message:

  PythonWin has caused an error in PYTHON21.DLL.
  Pythonwin will now close.

At that point you cannot close the Pythonwin
window or click or press escape. However,
you can ctl-alt-delete and close the task.

An example of the source code that does this
is pythonDialogUnits.py 
in the wxPython demo directory.

I am running the following:
  Python2.1
  Pythonwin win32all build 139
  wxPY2.2
  wxPYTHON-2.25-PY21.exe

Has anyone seen these symptoms and 
knows how to make the programs run
a second time using control-R in
the PythonWin editor without
crashing PythonWin?

Thanks,
Mike Brenner




From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug 16 13:21:25 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:21:25 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
Message-ID: <000201c12677$e1484c60$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

> Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This
> zillion special cases of 404-ish pages is something I use
> as an example in my forthcoming book _Text Processing in
> Python_ (a few more months until done).  Here's the code
> I present as an attempt at recognizing what only humans
> can:
>
> [code snipped]

Cool. The more books the better. Quick question: why are all of the
probabilities cumulative?
For example, did I correctly analyze these scenarios?

<BODY>
	<H1>404</H1>
</BODY>
=> 0.10 + 0.15 = 0.25

and:

<TITLE>
	Not Found
</TITLE>
=> 0.80 + 0.40 = 1.20

Cheers,
Brian






From JMaia at lexgen.com  Thu Aug 30 13:44:26 2001
From: JMaia at lexgen.com (Joao Prado Maia)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:44:26 -0500
Subject: Python vs PHP
Message-ID: <F46D732FFE25D511A893009027764C8C010E4AFF@lexchange.lexgen.com>


On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:
   But Python is not Zope. Python is The Best Programming Language you can
use to write command-line programs, GUI programs, daemons, CGIs and all
that.
Can you write non-CGI programs in PHP? 

<snip>

Actually, you can write non-CGI programs in PHP. Obviously this was not the
best reason as to why use Python over PHP in the first place, but it is not
true anyway.

Joao


*************************************************************************** 
 The contents of this communication are intended only for the addressee and
may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the
intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this
communication and notify the sender.  Opinions, conclusions and other
information in this communication that do not relate to the official
business of my company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by
it.  
*************************************************************************** 





From juanv at posta.unizar.es  Fri Aug 24 09:13:02 2001
From: juanv at posta.unizar.es (Juan Valiño)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:13:02 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <mailman.998629237.29875.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m5jvs$fmbs$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>

Thank you very much for your interesting comentaries to my proposal v[a # b]
equivalent to v[a:a+b]

It's interesting that

v[a:][:b] is equivalent to v[a : a + b]  (for b>=0)
and therefore equivalent to my original (and wrong) proposal v[a # b]

However, the notation is something awful.
Also, I'm not sure (correct to me) if the performance is equal.

The classical solution:

a = something_complicated_expression
v[a : a + b] ...

is more boring and maybe not applicable in some contexts.

One of thinks I like most from Python is it elegance. It is my friend and
let me to expose my ideas simple and directly without the tricks and
difficulties that I found in some other languages. [You can see that with my
english :)  ]

I think that the idiom (initial position + size) is very common and we could
do more support to it in Python.

For that reason I insist in my idea and I wish that an suitable operator
exists for it (instead #).

The Icon-Tim Peters operators :+ and -: sounds well to me:

v[a +: b]  ==  v[a : a + b]
v[a -: b]  ==  v[a - b : a]

It has one aditional advantage: when I read the code I see directly if I
want to go to the right or to the left.

[Question: if b < 0, is the result empty?]

Questions:
Could it affect previous code?
Is it easy to implement?.

(I think so, but I don't want to shout, remember the "comentary operator" :)




From guido at python.org  Wed Aug 22 04:48:03 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:48:03 GMT
Subject: Case Sensitivity: Survey Results
References: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cpsnekcwjr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Thanks for all the effort you put into this, Sheila!  This sure helps
to put this issue to rest.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Aug 29 19:11:40 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:11:40 +1000 (EST)
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
In-Reply-To: <Yb9XBLAJK$i7Ew3w@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108300909440.93-100000@central>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> In message <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108282015180.76-100000 at central>, Andrew
> MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> writes
> ..
> >If the binary Python package you've installed was built on a newer FreeBSD
> >(which seems likely from what I've gleaned from your posts) this is not
> >surprising, as the configure script would have found the errant header on
> >the newer system.
> ..
> the freeBSD questions list seems uncertain about wchar, but I guess maye
> the python maintainer has quite an advanced system. I guess I can build
> the port from source and it should be OK.

The packages get built on the package building cluster, which at the
moment would be based on a pre-release of 4.4.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From just at letterror.com  Sat Aug 11 07:30:49 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:30:49 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B751768.6B941BCD@letterror.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I have difficulty in understanding why the
>  print n, len(getStory()), len(_story)
> always prints n, 0, 0
> 
> why is b2.getStory not getStory? Is it because importing from a isn't
> the same as the importing from the __main__ module?

Exactly. The script is implicitly the __main__ module, and "import a"
results in a new module.

> What is the correct way to import from the main script?

"import __main__" should work, but I'm not sure that's a wise thing to do...

Just


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  8 15:53:03 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:53:03 -0400
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
In-Reply-To: <3b704e54.256180818@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEHFLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> The Python 2.2a2 Windows distribution should work better for you
> in several respects:
>
> + It has an "Advanced Options" dialog, allowing not to register file
>   extensions at all, and not to create any Start Menu shortcuts.
>
> + Also a "non-admin install" option
> ...
>
> + Also a new option to create copies of everything replaced
> ...

[Mats Wichmann]
> Sounds neat.  You get all this "for free" with the new installer
> program?

No, but *you* do, and that's what counts (at least to you <wink>).

It actually took days of work to create an installer that ran to completion
on a Win2K box from a vanilla User acct (not Admin, not Power User, just the
bare bones).  That even required replacing some of Wise's code (e.g., its
uninstall setup always wrote the uninstall string under HKLM, but a vanilla
Win2K user isn't allowed to write *anything* there; and hit isomorphic
gotchas over and over).

So, basically, we've got two full installers, duplicated under "if
Admin/else" blocks, with a few additional "if Win2K" warts.  This should be
transparent to you.  The new backup/rollback facilities did come (almost)
for free with Wise 8.14, and work great.  The Install.log is more detailed
than before, and that came for free too.  Everything else was a mere matter
of programming (and hundreds of reboots <wink>).

windows-is-a-high-maintenance-platform-ly y'rs  - tim




From l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com  Tue Aug 14 23:09:55 2001
From: l0819m0v0smfm001 at sneakemail.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:09:55 GMT
Subject: Cookies in request object
References: <9lcg00$6se$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <3B79B05D.664515AA@sneakemail.com>

Garth Grimm wrote:
> 
> I feel that I should have been able to figure this out on my own, or by
> using the python docs, but I haven't been able to.
> 
> How do I attach a Cookie object to an HTTP request object?

  I think what you're looking for is:

  httplib.setheader("Cookie:", "name=value; path; domain")

  
  It's documented in the HTTP object docs, although the doc on setheader
doesn't specifically mention cookies (but RFC2109 lays out cookie
headers in all their gory detail, e.g. at
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc2109.html ).  Actually,
looking at the docs I can't tell whether you need the colon after Cookie
or if setheader will put it in itself; you'll have to experiment a bit
with it.  And of course name, value, and the optional path and domain
should have your values...

  Joshua


From ws-news at gmx.at  Fri Aug  3 04:29:00 2001
From: ws-news at gmx.at (Werner Schiendl)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:29:00 +0200
Subject: PyQt for win32
References: <3B6A3635.9BF5981E@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3b6a6ab2$0$31962$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Hi,

not really what you asked for exactly,

you can download the Microsoft Windows Platform SDK.
AFAIK it includes the command line tools to build Windows Apps.

It's a free download (however quite large)

hth
Werner




From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug  9 16:07:26 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:07:26 -0700
Subject: calling applications from python
References: <3b72ba42_1@nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net>
Message-ID: <9kuqhu02cn9@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3b72ba42_1 at nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net>, "Jesper says...
>
>It is possible to call applications from a python program using, e.g.
>the os.system command:
>
>os.system("ls -l")
>
>Is it possible to attach the output from this command to a file?
>I would like to be able to read this output, instead of just sending it to
>stdout.

I think what you want is "os.pipe", which is described in "File Descriptor
Operations" section of the os module.

which-is-cleverly-hidden-there-so-folks-like-you-and-me
   -won't-find-it-when-we-hunt-around-in-the
   -'Process-Management'-section-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Fri Aug 31 07:29:03 2001
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:29:03 +0200
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
References: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <9mnse0$knh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Try:

class KeywordTrap:
    def __init__ (self):
        self.allwords = {}

    def __getitem__ (self, keyword):
        self.allwords [keyword] = 1
        return 0  # should work for %s and %d

trap = KeywordTrap ()
formatstring % trap
print trap.allwords.keys ()

Daniel





From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Sat Aug  4 20:03:02 2001
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 17:03:02 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa@posting.google.com> <3dd76bk8ik.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0108041603.607d83b5@posting.google.com>

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:<3dd76bk8ik.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
> paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:
> > >         well. Most templating languages assume the content is mostly
> > >         HTML with just a few small bits of program code here and
> > 
> > I would say that most "small" template languages are like that, but
> > DTML, JSP and ASP surely support almost any kind of textual document.
> > Only supporting HTML in a template system is far too limiting in my
> > view. Enhydra's XMLC seems to be constrained in certain additional
> 
> The assumption I'm talking about isn't that the output is assumed to
> be HTML or text, but that templates are assumed to be mostly plain
> HTML with only occasional escapes into program code or variable
> expansions.  That assumption may have once been true, and still is if
> all you're doing is inserting the current date or picking a random
> quotation; one <!--#thingy--> and you're done, but for most modern,
> heavily dynamic Web sites I expect the density of program code is much
> higher.

One might say that which is better in a particular circumstance depends
more on what infrastructure exists behind that web page, if any.

Take for example if one was using mod_python. This is just a souped up
version of CGI without any real infrastructure behind it. At the other
end of the scale their is ZOPE which has a sizeable infrastructure behind
it.

Where such an infrastructure exists, there is more opportunity for
factoring out functionality related to the model separate from the view
represented by the page. In this case, it possibly makes more sense to
make use of the infrastructure to create reusable functional objects and
have the template mechanism be HTML oriented rather than code oriented.

In a CGI type system, there isn't necessarily any means for reuse in
the same way of persistent functional objects. Instead, the script needs
to more or less contain everything it needs and thus may be better to
be code oriented rather than HTML oriented.

Perhaps you could explain more as to what sort of infrastructure you have
supporting your web pages. Is it just in the form of code functions, or
active functional objects that may actually be able to do independent
processing outside of any actual HTTP request? This may help to show why
the approach you are taking works well in your circumstance.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 08:53:24 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 05:53:24 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997868309.21900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xlmklqybf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> [Paul Rubin, asks about cmath branch cuts]
> 
> [Alex Martelli]
> > Fully specified at
> > http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/lib/module-cmath.html
> 
> Oops!  I forgot Fred added that.  How much do you want to bet that they're
> all correct <wink>?

Oh cool.  Thanks.  Btw, is there any reason for the apparently
unnecessary complex contagion as soon as you touch cmath?  For
example, cmath.sqrt(1) is 1+0j instead of 1.0.  The HP-15C pocket
calculator handled all these issues very well way back in the 1980's
or so.  I don't know offhand how Scheme does it.


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 20 17:25:50 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:25:50 -0500
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org>
        <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <15233.32862.592406.83196@beluga.mojam.com>

    Erno> In article <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list at python.org>, "Tim
    Erno> Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

    Erno> | The Python profiler is written in Python, and uses Python's
    Erno> | time.clock()

    Erno> mouldn't it be better to use something with a little more
    Erno> resolution on non-win32 platforms, like gettimeofday() ?

The C library function clock(3) and the system call gettimeofday(2) measure
two quite different things.  From "man clock" on my Mandrake system:

    The clock() function returns an approximation of processor
    time used by the program.

>From "man gettimeofday":

       gettimeofday  and settimeofday can set the time as well as
       a timezone. 

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug  3 17:11:11 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:11:11 GMT
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <memo.20010803215850.16469f@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PrEa7.66902$EP6.15427551@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Tim Rowe" <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.20010803215850.16469f at digitig.compulink.co.uk...
> Just a quick reminder that the reason I can't get any sysadmin to
let me
> use Python is that all the ones I encounter consider Python too
unstable
> for serious work. I see their point :-(

Compared to what?   I'm am acually curious.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at strakt.com  Wed Aug 15 07:51:41 2001
From: martin at strakt.com (Martin Sjögren)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:51:41 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20010815135141.A15975@strakt.com>

On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 11:06:40AM +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:
> My opinion is that the for loop in Python is one of the things that makes 
> it great.

With generators and iterators, most definitely!  Without iterators it's a
bit painful at times, but the iterators really rock, it almost feels like
the lazy evaluation in Haskell =)

Martin

-- 
Martin Sj?gren
  martin at strakt.com              ICQ : 41245059
  Phone: +46 (0)31 7710870       Cell: +46 (0)739 169191
  GPG key: http://www.strakt.com/~martin/gpg.html



From ruhi.aktay at de.bosch.com  Thu Aug 16 07:26:34 2001
From: ruhi.aktay at de.bosch.com (Aktay Ruhi)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:26:34 +0200
Subject: Which is the best way...
References: <mailman.997909164.1727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lgalg$g3$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.com>

if the list looks like ['b','c','e','d','a'],
then which item of the list would you say is the first non-ordered one ?

Matthew D. Wood schrieb in Nachricht ...
>I have an interesting code-correctness question.  I firmly believe in
>doing things 'The Right Way' and I'm not sure which of these 3 blocks is
>better.  So, if you code-guru's could help me out I would definitely
>appreciate it.
>
>
>
>###################################################
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
>
>list_a = ['a', 'b', 'e', 'c', 'd']
>list_b = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e']
>
>
[snip]




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 16 12:44:35 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:44:35 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lgt9j011q1@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xy9okeeha.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> over a lot of use and works well.  PHP basically copied it so PHP's
> pack/unpack work the same way.  Python's struct package is very limited
> by comparison--it does only a few formats, and the record length has
> to be hard coded into the format string.  So to turn a list of ints

If I felt severely limited by Python's struct package, I'd see it
as an occasion to hack on it to extend it to my liking -- then one
can submit the enhanced struct for inclusion into Python and/or
just publish it on Parnassus or somewhere.  (That's assuming one's
a C hacker, but, as gawk's original author, I would definitely
believe you must be!-).

The fact that struct is a separate module means all you have to
grok for the hacking is 1200 lines of code in structmodule.c,
and the reasonably-clean Python C API -- a far sight from
having to hack the internals of a large program... that's
always gonna be hairier.

> Well, there's the XDR package, which apparently does the right thing.
> But then I looked at the code for it, and it works something like this:
>
>    def pack(stuff):
>      buf = ""
>      for i in stuff:
>         buf = buf + encode(i)  # string concatenation
>
> Very natural coding, but yikes!  The running time is quadratic in the
> number of items being coded, because the string keeps growing as you
> append stuff and keep reallocating it.  You won't notice it for small

I agree, it's a serious coding defect in xdrlib.py.  All of the
self.__buf = self.__buf + something will indeed kill performance
if a Packer is used to pack something big, and should be replaced
with appending of the something to a list of strings -- the
one-string buffer being built JIT in the get_buffer method.

The fact that you're already finding such performance bugs, that
must have been there for ages (xdrlib is pretty old, I think),
confirms that you're *definitely* the kind of person we want
in the Python community!-)  I've submitted this as a bug to
sourceforge, as I see you hadn't done that.

> objects but then suddenly you try generating some megabyte images (or
> whatever) with it and wonder why your program bogged down.  So I'd
> have to say this isn't a mature implementation.  A real production
> system shouldn't have gotchas like that if they're avoidable (which

If you know of any large software system without at least one
silly performance-bug lurking somewhere in rarely-used parts
of the system, I'd really love to be introduced to it!-).  If,
as and when we notice such bugs, we submit them, they get fixed,
and the quality keeps going upwards -- that's supposed to be
a key benefit of open-source, after all:-).

> this is).  I saw a PEP saying they're adding buffer objects (something
> like Java StringBuf's) and maybe some of these problems will go away.

Buffer objects may be even faster than a list of strings that
are joined by ''.join, but the key issue is noticing that some
piece of software is doing the xx=xx+something routine -- fixing
that is trivial once noticed, even if a builtin buffer object or
array.array could provide another, say, 5% or 10% performance
bonus wrt a list of strings joined by ''.join.


> I think as a work of pure language design, Python is excellent despite
> a few minor warts.

I fully agree.

> I'm less impressed by the current runtime library
> which I think is less well developed than those of Perl, Java, Common
> Lisp, etc.  Python is supposed to be a "batteries included" language

If you include CPAN into Perl, yes, its library is huge.  So are,
without any discussion, CL's and Java's, although about the
design of the latter I could raise a zillion objections -- I'm
getting familiar with them again through Jython (a complete
implementation of Python that runs on a JVM and seamlessly
gives me complete access to any Java class I could ever possibly
have around) after a few years' lapse in my Java usage, and I
see they've grown very fat but, in many spots, not necessarily
much better (IMHO).

> but I think it would benefit if the implementers flipped through the
> manuals for Perl, CL, etc. and made Python counterparts to those
> languages' library functions when there was a reason to do so.  That
> would save a lot of experimenting and evolution.  Why reinvent the
> wheel?

Copying good parts from another language is indeed an excellent
idea -- Python's RE architecture is a reasonably faithful copy
of Perl's, for example, and I've heard that Perl 5's addition of
OO features was partly inspired by the way OO is done in Python.


> Python's online documentation is also nowhere near as thorough as
> Perl's.  I see on amazon.com that there's a 900 page O'Reilly Python
> book that I can buy, but if I have to buy a separate book to get
> important info, then the distribution isn't really self contained.  So
> this needs improvement too.

I suspect that "Programming Python" isn't really giving you
important info that's omitted from the online docs, as much
as using a completely different style, lots of big examples
and case studies, etc, to present exactly the same language
and standard libraries.  Yes, there are holes (particularly
in the extending and embedding sections), but the language
and library reference manuals seem pretty complete to me.


> I guess it partly depends on what you're doing.  Python is clearly
> further developed in some application domains than others.  Complex
> numerics in Python are still something of a dark spot, as we saw.  As

Sorry, I don't get that -- I must have missed something; I
saw you ask about .real/.imag and branch cuts and gave you
doc pointers.  Where's the "dark spot" and where did we
see it?

> I wouldn't say I'm hunting for problems, but I try to do necessary
> things in obvious ways and I hit snags and have been taking note of
> them.  I guess that after a while one gets used to the snags.

Hunting for problems is a GREAT thing, as long as one points
them out, ideally (when clearly bugs, such as those in xdrlib)
by posting a bug on sourceforce, or even fixes them (e.g. by
extending struct or at least proposing a PEP about extending
it) -- but that isn't crucial: a defect that is clearly pointed
out and acknowledged as such does quickly get fixed, anyway,
particularly in the extensions and libraries (problems deep
in the core of the language would be harder to fix, of course).


Alex


>
> Anyway, the positive is definitely there, or else I wouldn't continue
> to mess with Python.  There's just not a whole lot to post about it.




From donn at drizzle.com  Tue Aug 14 00:30:39 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:30:39 -0000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com> <pson154nfha.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108131541.3cc051d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <997763429.579495@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
...
| Python's type system has some marvelous properties.  Feel free to
| produce a static type system that is as powerful.  Then you get to
| make the complexity argument.  Or, you get to make the "but programmers
| don't need all that power" argument.  Or both.

It's hard to compare Python vs. Haskell or OCaml and decide whose
type system is more powerful, just because that isn't a quantifiable
measure, but I bet your evident interest in these matters would be
well rewarded by learning a little of one or the other.

The "programmers don't need all that power" argument is already
being made, though, if you take the time to read more current
threads in c.l.p.  Run-time dynamism in certain aspects of the
system is at odds with type/class unification, to questionable
value added due to the lack of transparency (because you don't
know even after you have seen the code - who knows what changes
some other code may make here at run time), and the obstacles
to optimization due to the same lack of transparency.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 15:22:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:22:38 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com> <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9l40tk01pfn@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    ...
> The real wart I feel is that the module a has two names, one when run as
> a script and the other when imported.

Since importing the main-script is such an oddity, I don't agree
that this qualifies as 'a wart'.  Still, warts are in the eye of the
beholder, so you're welcome to your own opinion:-).

> I suppose there is some overriding implementation issue, but it seems to

Not really, more of a logical issue.  When I "import floop", I expect
floop's module-level code to have executed fully by the time I get
to execute the next statement after the import, so I can use (e.g.)
all functions defined in floop by def statements, etc.  When imports
are circular, this just can't be -- call it an "overriding implementation
issue" if you will, but you just can't meet the expected "module-level
code of imported module has fully executed by the time the statement
right after import executes" for BOTH modules that import each other.

Circular imports (and circular dependencies in general) are a horror
and there's little any language can do to make things rosy and peachy.
Maybe they should be forbidden (i.e., I'm neutral on the thesis "any
allowance for circularity is a wart", as I said), but as long as they're
allowed I find Python's behavior in the matter quite reasonable.

> me that in the file a.py
>
> __file__ and __name__ ought always to be defined and given the
> appropriate 'right' values.

The point is, that when the main script a.py imports b.py at the
start, and the latter in turn imports a.py, under your desired
scheme there is absolutely nothing b can do with a's stuff right
after the import.  Under Python's present scheme, a's "normal"
module-level code has executed when b has finished importing
it in this way -- the unit-testing code that's presumably what
I'm exercising by running a.py (normally designed to be
imported) as a main script, being presumably guarded by
the usual "if __name__=='__main__'" and therefore skipped.

Seems reasonable to me (given circular imports, which are
not reasonable per se:-) -- either module circularly importing
each other may be unit-tested by running it as a main script.
The unit-test code of a, of course, will "import a" itself (that's
after the 'normal' imports have been done, normally) if it
needs to tweak or examine *a*'s globals (as opposed to its
own).  I fail to see any offsetting benefit in your preference.


> Since magic variables/names seem to be natural in python I would just
> make __main__ true in the main script and false everywhere else. It's
> truth value could be the module that corresponds to the main script.
>
> That would break all the if __name__=='__main__' scripts so it could
> never be done.

Of course.  But we're discussing whether it SHOULD be done, and
I opine it shouldn't.


Alex





From nhead at houbits.com  Thu Aug  9 03:56:31 2001
From: nhead at houbits.com (Nigel Head)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 07:56:31 GMT
Subject: pyFlash
References: <mailman.997339095.27883.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90F866642abbrvfgtyloup@131.176.85.36>

rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi) wrote in
<mailman.997339095.27883.python-list at python.org>: 

>On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, MNX tech services wrote:
>
>>Would it make sense to use static Flash 5.0 pages as a browser-based
>>GUI against a Python backend?  Wouldn't it have the advantage of
>>displaying absolutely uniformly across all platforms, along with
>>providing a vast array of widgets?
>
>If you code for the WWW, then it's probably not good idea. Personally I
>avoid flashed sites, .... [snip] ...

And there you have the problem: this comes down (partly) to a marketing 
decision -- the community appears to be split between the purists (who have 
a good point, given the regular security problems with most forms of client 
side scripting) and the rest, who are prepared to accept some of these 
client side technologies.

The other part to the equation though is Flash itself: it seems to have 
some unfortunate bugs, they only get fixed VERY slowly as well. The list is 
longish, some samples -- XML sent with the wrong content type (fixed in 
latest player, but how many have upgraded?), GET instead of PUT under some 
circumstances (not consistently fixed, AFAIK), Content-type header value 
with trailing garbage attached (my latest discovery). And so on... 

Given this I'm seriously considering doing some of my work with Jython 
generated applets instead -- specifically any form based dialogs needing 
client side validation or other forms of smarts. As well, I like to use 
XML-RPC and doing that in Flash, although possible, is more painful than it 
ought to be. I haven't tried with Jython yet but I figure it ought to be 
OK.

Where Flash really can't be beaten is the presentation/graphical/design 
type sites ......

Nigel.

BTW (off topic): Anyone played with CURL yet?


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sat Aug  4 21:51:17 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:51:17 -0700
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com> <003d01c11d35$e0456140$6501a8c0@pacbell.net> <020801c11d3c$517d6460$33c39e3e@michaelb>
Message-ID: <00db01c11d51$21002a60$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

From: "Michael Briel" <kruge at gmx.de>


> > Browse the www.python.org site for a few hours.
> >
> > Here's some intros:
> > http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
> 
> Thanks a lot - that should keep me busy for a while... :o)
> 
> Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
> <<I'd rather be rich than stupid.>>

You're welcome.  When you have finished following all of the links, come
back for your next assignment. :-)

- Ken





From jmao at zikai.org  Tue Aug 21 20:43:14 2001
From: jmao at zikai.org (Junjun Mao)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:43:14 -0700
Subject: Tkinter on IRIX and Linux
References: <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E@zikai.org> <mailman.998383831.16689.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B830022.F1042BBD@zikai.org>

Thanks, Heiko,

I could run "wish", and it pop up a window. If this suggested an installed
tkinter and tcl, where  was the  "_tkinter" module?

However, I can run "wish" on a machine without Python.
A little confused...

Junjun

Heiko Wundram wrote:

> What you have to do is:
>
> 1. check whether you have Tk installed (by trying to run 'wish' as
> superuser). If that doesn't work (gives file not found), get both Tcl and Tk
> from http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10894 and compile
> them without threads support enabled! This is important, as Tk crashes often
> under Linux when thread-support is used. Install Tcl and Tk in /usr (by using
> --prefix=/usr), so that you won't have to specify an additional --include-dir
> for Python.





From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 12:10:44 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:10:44 +0200
Subject: Static method and class method comments
References: <9jn382$lqf$1@license1.unx.sas.com> <Xns90EA6710921D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <1201359.46VatdPhlS@lunix.schabi.de> <J0ea7.61496$EP6.14462458@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <1065976.8hzESeGDPO@lunix.schabi.de>

Hello,

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at home.com> schrub:

>> And it seems rather powerful for a lot of cases. But it raises the
>> question what to do with combining more than one funcmodifier...
> 
> Either make the optional funcmodifier an optional list (perhaps not a
> good idea)

At least it should be clearly defined in which order the functions are 
applied.

> or tell users to write simple wrapper of multiple modifiers:
> 
> def multimod(f): return mod2(mod1(f))

It might even be possible to allow the lambda operator to create such 
wrapper functions instantly.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Aug  3 23:17:12 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:17:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108031920030.30046-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, John Schmitt wrote:

> > - The cost of finding the Python bug (type-related or not) is probably
> > quite lower than the cost of finding a bug in the same OCaml code. If
> > nothing there's 66 to 75% fewer lines of code to sift through
> > so you'll
> > narrow the search a lot quicker (I realize you're new to
> > OCaml, but the
> > poster is new to Python).
>
> I'm following this conversation with great interest and I think I'm grokking
> everything up to here.
>
> As for finding this bug, well, isn't the point of ML that *the compiler
> finds the bug* way before it ever gets to a customer?  I guess that assumes
> that you've expressed your types correctly.  If you had not expressed your
> types correctly, that would be a bug related to the semantics of their
> meaning (a 'logic error' as described in an earlier post).  That is, you
> knew exactly what they types mean and expressed exactly that.

Well, expressing your types correctly does not mean your program has no
bugs. I guess the debate has at least these two main parts: just what
percentage of bugs would be eliminated by correct and detailed types, and
does the effort to correctly specify them yield enough benefit to make it
worth it?

My take is that, especially in Python, type-related bugs make up an
extremely small segment of all bugs, and the examples I've seen of
specifying all that type information dramatically increase the complexity
of the source code, even to the point of possibly _introducing_ bugs.

> > - If the function later needs to be modified to be more flexible
> with > different types or even just a little extra functionality, >
> the Python one > is gonna be a breeze. I'd feel confident about a
> quick change > followed by > some quick testing. I'd feel much more
> nervous about > modifying the other > one.>

> I'm not sure if you're being fair here.  I've only done a small amount of ML
> (in school, some years ago) but your question is pretty hand-wavey and
> contrived to make your point.  I much prefer coding in Python, but I
> wouldn't make the claim you just made there.  How about becoming fluent in
> ML and then doing a detailed analysis? :-)

That comment was based _solely_ on the added size and complexity of the
type-checking version. While I obviously can't guarantee that in all cases
my assertion stands ( like I said before, I'm no ML expert) I do know that
these rules generally hold, and that's the basis of my statement:

- more lines of code tends to mean more bugs (all bugs are human error,
all humans are error-prone, the more opportunities you create for error,
the more errors occur)
- more complex code is buggier than straightforward code (consider code
that is so obvious that it is self-documenting vs. code so complex that
the ratio of comments to code statements is > 1)
- in addition to being buggier, more code and more complexity increases
the cost of: development, maintenance, and transfer of ownership if for no
other reason than the fact that your brain has to do that much more
processing

These rules are pretty universal (when applied to humans); they don't just
apply to software development. The more details I have to manage, the more
likely I am to screw something up.

> - After a little experience using Python, the cost of finding that bug
> > will drop dramatically (how long would it take you, Donn, to figure
> it  out? 30 seconds maybe?) as will the likelihood of that bug
> occurring, but the cost of creating the OCaml type-checking version
> will remain more or less constant - you'll always have to write
> about that much code. So you'll fight your way through the learning
> curve only to find that by doing so what you learned just went down
> in value. ;-)
>
> Obviously the barrier to entry for ML is quite a bit higher than Python,
> (are we still talking about newbies?)

I didn't think we were originally, but the example posted came from a
newbie question. ;-)

> but the compiler will find the bug for
> you if it was written ML'ically (as opposed Pythonically?) unless I am much
> mistaken.

I would agree that it could find type-related bugs, and perhaps the
stricter type model expands the realm of those bugs so that more are
caught, but I don't think that any ML makes the grandiose claim that all
bugs fall into that category.

Also, it goes back to the question of just how much that costs you. You
and your business have a non-zero tolerance level of bugs (unless you're
doing some sort of formal validation of all your code). Why? Because
there's other factors like time-to-market, budgets, and so on. (For
personal programming, there's the time-to-bordem-with-this-idea factor)

How bad is it if your customer finds a bug, anyway? This discussion so far
has assumed that when your customer finds a defect it's deadly to your
business. This isn't always the case. Extreme Programming, for example, is
all about releasing early and often. It's obviously not always possible or
correct to use XP, but when you do then both you and your customers
_expect_ to find bugs, and it's okay: they find a bug, you add it to your
internal tests, and they get the fix in a few days or weeks. That being
the case, the work to add strict type checking better have a huge payoff
or you're wasting valuable development time (because you're slowing down
the development pace to build in checks for specific types of bugs, but as
soon as you release you get higher quality testing that covers all types
of bugs).

-Dave




From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 15 14:56:59 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:56:59 +0200
Subject: How to define a callback from Python to a C program ...
References: <3B7AB97F.E2103C67@toppoint.de>
Message-ID: <3240392.1g2EtIAgqj@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Marten Feldtmann <marten at toppoint.de> schrub:

> I want to extend my application (not written in C) with Python and
> I want to call from Python to my program and give my program some
> information (say a string) ... it's something like a callback.
> 
> Can this be done ???

If the language your application is written lets you execute external 
programs, than you can use pipes. Start the python program from your 
application, and then communicate with it through the pipes.

Java e. G. has java.lang.runtime and java.lang.process. This allows you 
to start an external process, and access the process's stdin, stdout 
and stderr like files.

The second way - at least with unixoid OSes - would be to use named 
pipes.

If both fails, you could open a tcp or udp socket, and communicate this 
way.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 17 01:10:05 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 22:10:05 -0700
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <9li8vd$qe3$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda>,
Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk  <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote:
>Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:20:50 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:
>>
>> So now consider:
>> 
>>     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
>> 
>> How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
>> that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
>> temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)
>
>y.a, (b,c,d), x.e = [wower()] * 3

That's sick, twisted, and actually easier to understand, IMHO.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Nothing fails like prayer"  --bumper snicker


From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Sat Aug 11 18:30:15 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:30:15 -0700
Subject: Confusion about iterator types
Message-ID: <vabbnt8mnnc3f2tt1chpf2q4sp406qagbc@4ax.com>



In types, I find SequenceIterType and FunctionIterType.

When I go:

  >>> mylist = [1,2,3,4]
  >>> myiter = iter(mylist)

I then get:

  >>> type(myiter)
  <type 'iterator'>

But 'iterator' by itself has no corresponding type in types.  

If I use the isinstance() method, I can confirm that myiter is a
SequenceIterType, but shouldn't it just tell me that?  Shouldn't 
type(foo) return a type name that more closely matches its type 
in types?  Why not have?:
 
 >>> type(myiter)
 <type 'sequence-iter'>

Also, some clarification re the below would be helpful:

  >>> def f(n): return n*n

  >>> callable(f)
  1
  >>> k = iter(f,10)
  >>> type(k)
  <type 'callable-iterator'>
  >>> k()
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<pyshell#142>", line 1, in ?
      k()
  TypeError: object is not callable: <callable-iterator object at 00B6D10C>

In IDLE, when I go >>> iter(  I'm prompted that the syntax is 
iter(collection) -> iterator.  Yet the PEP leads me to this other use 
of iter(v, w) where v must be callable.

Simply obeying that rule allows me to get as far as defining f above
(callable) and getting some callable-iterator k.  I don't know what this 
should mean or do in this context, but it's apparently legal -- until I 
actually try to call this callable-iterator, and get the error message that
this object isn't callable.  Just from a logical consistency point of view,
it seems that any object calling itself a callable-iterator shouldn't turn
around and tell me it ain't callable.

And again, there's no 'callable-iterator' type in types.

I find that my object is a FunctionIterType:

 >>> isinstance(k,types.FunctionIterType)
 1

Seems the types name should therefore be CallableIter or the returned
type should be <type 'function-iter'> (corresponding to <type 'sequence-iter'>).

Kirby



From anamax at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  5 01:29:53 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 22:29:53 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net> <vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108042129.75ed433d@posting.google.com>

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message news:<vblomtomuhmk79gk4u64504njgaj4af0dp at 4ax.com>...
> >Would you use it often enough to warrant a language change?
> 
> Personally, probably not. I'm really only observing that many of
> the requests for "type safe containers" that you see around are
> really on a desire to have uniform containers. It's easy enough
> to create these by hand if your really want them.

What does "uniform" mean?

Is [1, 2.7] uniform or not?
How about [1, 0]?

Note that the first is "uniform" with respect to addition, but
not with respect to being used as an argument to slice (I think)
while the second is uniform wrt slice, but not as the second
argument of division.

And, how about subclasses?

As Martelli points out, types are too strong, too weak, and have
strange costs in the wrong places.  The right question is whether
the relevant operations are defined and have the right semantics,
and types don't help much with it.

-andy


From kruge at gmx.de  Sat Aug  4 19:21:47 2001
From: kruge at gmx.de (Michael Briel)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 01:21:47 +0200
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com> <EH_a7.11510$DW1.1860117@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <9khvu7$hek$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Brad Bollenbach" <bbollenbach at home.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:EH_a7.11510$DW1.1860117 at news1.rdc1.mb.home.com...
> "Learn to Program Using Python":
> http://www.aw.com/product/0,2627,0201709384,00.html
> Though I haven't read it myself, it seems to fit the bill for what you're
> looking for, and has the stamp of a respected publisher (Addison-Wesley)
on
> its cover.

Uh-Huh! :o) Thanks! I'll first have a look at those sources online, but I
added this to my bookmarks to check it later if I've really decided on how
deep I want to go into that matter ...


--
Michael Briel / www.mp3.com/briel / briel at archeb.de / ICQ: 15785108
<<One thing kids like is to be tricked. For instance, I was going to take my
little nephew to Disneyland, but instead I drove him to an old burned-out
warehouse. "Oh, no," I said. "Disneyland burned down." He cried and cried,
but I think that deep down, he thought it was a pretty good joke. I started
to drive over to the real Disneyland, but it was getting pretty late.>>






From me at mikerobin.com  Wed Aug 15 23:24:09 2001
From: me at mikerobin.com (Michael Robin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 20:24:09 -0700
Subject: Iterators and adaptation: (WAS Re: eof?)
References: <mailman.997883532.20811.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <52e5ab5f.0108151924.1a021bc4@posting.google.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote in message > > "Dietmar Lang" <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message > There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> > > >
> > > >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
> > > >         process(line)
> And in 2.2, file objects can automatically return an iterator 
> in the context of a for loop, so you can just say:
> 

   [0]
> 	for line in open( filename ):
> 		process(line)
> 

(x)readlines is pretty explict, but in general it would be nice, as in
the case above (or fineinput, etc.), to be able to know what kind of
object is being returned by the interator/sequence. For example:

 [1]	for line in open( filename ).lines:
 		process(line)

this way you could write:

 [1]	for char in open( filename ).chars:
             ...

or whatever you wanted. When an object is it's own iterator,
there could be name conflicts, so you could even
(in a kind of PEP246'ish style) use:

 [2]	for csvTuple in adapt( open( filename ), FileAdaptors.CSV):
               process( csvTuple)

"open(file)" could still produce an iterator that does lines by
default, but you can be explicit if you want, and the iterator could
respond for requests to adapt. (Or it could return a "stub" iterator
that needs to be specialized before use. If next() was called there'd
be an RT error saying "What do you want to iterate over?: [chars,
lines, ...]") (? Unless specified otherwise, adaptation is only
garanteed to work before the first next() call.)

One way to do this is to make __iter__ parametric - but then we'd need
a way to get the value(s) there. Perhaps by asking for the iterator
explicitly:

 [3]	for csvTuple in open( filename ).__iter__(CSV):
 		process( csvTuple)

The other option is similar to "x in dict" doing keys like "x in
dict.iterkeys()", and also having "itervalues()" and "iteritems()" -
but I think its nice to be truely parametric vs. using an indicative
method name (but even that's better than nothing), such as using:

 [4]	for line in open( filename ).iterlines():
               ...

(If you're dealing with iterators implicitly produced by generator
functions, there may be no way to do this on the base object protocol,
unless functions that yield'ed supported an optional __whatToGenerate
keyword parameter or some other hack.)

It seems like even if not enforced by the language, there should be a
prefered style for doing this sort of thing, at least for modules in
the std distribution. Personally, I think the default and
non-requested iterator protocol on file-like objects (for example) are
probably a good thing and make for short code - but the option of
being explicit though method [4] or [3] (if deemed worth exploring)
should be provided. This is more for the purpose of self-documenting
code than any grand unification principal.

thanks,
mike


From frederic.giacometti at arakne.com  Thu Aug 23 21:43:23 2001
From: frederic.giacometti at arakne.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:43:23 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <kuitfe9xfm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <7xae0q2vu4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <%iih7.65872$MC1.21518708@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xae0q2vu4.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:
> > on the other hand it is also worth keeping in mind that back then
> > there were no caches in cpus, whereas todays cpu caches as big as main
> > memories were then (and see very good hit rates).
>
> We run bigger applications now than we did then.  Otherwise we wouldn't
> find ourselves buying so much dram.

And we do much more sloppy programming than we used to do (and we
occasionaly run automated garbage collectors...).
Microsoft Office requires now 600 MB disk and 64 MB RAM, the barebone .NET
SDK requires 500 MB disk,  the barebone Java SDK requires 60 MB disk and
some RAM. Python, with its 5 MB disk installation is really lost in that
crowd...






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 15:31:14 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:31:14 +0200
Subject: File name and line number
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108102017490.22519-100000@my.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <9l1d1d01bfb@enews2.newsguy.com>

[Posted and mailed, as requested]

"Marielle Fois" <im99_foa at nada.kth.se> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.30.0108102017490.22519-100000 at my.nada.kth.se...
> Hello,
>
> Is is possible to know the name of a python file within the file
> itself? And the line number of the instruction that is currently
> being executed?


When a Python module is imported, Python sets its __file__
attribute to the filename of the file it was imported from.

If you're talking about a module rather than a main script,
this should suffice for your 'name of a python file' request.

Do note that the *directory* part of the name may differ
(you may use the functions in module os.path to normalize
and/or analize it, of course).

For more generality you need function _getframe of module
sys.  As the leading _ indicates, it's a "delicate" function,
meant to be used only for very special purposes -- getting
filename and linenumber presumably meet the "very special"
test, being a typical task of a development/debugging
framework rather than of normal programs.

sys._getframe() returns the frame object it was called
from (you can get the caller's frame, the caller's caller's
frame, etc, by passing _getframe a numeric argument:
default is 0, 1 means caller's frame, and so on).

One of the attributes of a frame object is f_lineno, which
gets incremented (in a non-optimized Python run, only;
i.e., if Python was *NOT* started with option -O or -OO!)
by a special bytecode operation so it always reflects the
current linenumber in the execution frame.  For example,
save the following to file lino.py:

import sys
x = sys._getframe()
print 'line',x.f_lineno
print 'line',x.f_lineno
print 'line',x.f_lineno

and run it:

D:\Python21>python lino.py
line 3
line 4
line 5

However, if you optimize, it's not that useful any more:

D:\Python21>python -O lino.py
line 1
line 1
line 1

but them's the breaks -- no line-numbers from optimized
bytecode (you only optimize when you're finished doing
development and debugging, anyway).


For the filename, add one last line to the above script:
print 'file',x.f_code.co_filename
and now running it you get:

D:\Python21>python lino.py
line 3
line 4
line 5
file lino.py

(the filename information remains even with -O).


> Suppose I have a function, and I want this function
> to take two arguments, first the name of the file where it is placed,
> and second at which line number. Is there any way of doing this?

This is a different question, of course -- you're asking not
what file is currently executing or on what line, but in what
file is a given function, and at what line (so you can pass
this info as arguments to the same function -- peculiar
but doable).  If x is any reference to the function, e.g.
    from amodule import afunction as x
or whatever, then:
    x.func_code.co_filename is the filename,
    x.func_code.co_firstlineno is the first line number
        (i.e., the 'def' line).

So, calling:
    x(x.func_code.co_filename,x.func_code.co_firstlineno)
should satisfy your peculiar request.  By the way, this
is not affected by -O or -OO being in use.


Alex





From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Thu Aug 16 04:41:30 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 02:41:30 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7x66borarm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108160215550.564-100000@bms>

On 15 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:
<...>
> Yes, but if you have to resort to such tricks as sys.stdout.write, it
> makes Python less pleasant to program in.  Is there a way to get rid
> of the extra space with the string formatting operator?

Is this the kind of thing you are after...

>>> prints = sys.stdout.write
>>> str = 'abc'
>>> for i in ['a', 'b', ' ', 'c', str, '\n']:
...     prints(i)
...
ab cabc
>>>

...rather than...

>>> for i in ['a', 'b', ' ', 'c', str, '\n']:
...     print i,
...
a b   c abc
>>>

I guess I just don't see sys.stdout as a trick, print is the trick
because it wraps sys.stdout.write up with some formatting shortcuts.


- Bruce




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 20:18:21 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:18:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unicode to String in python language
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108282004320.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108282017060.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Kim C Tran wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The function win32net.NetUserEnum(None,2,filter,resume) return all the
> > information of users and I loop in through the list and get User Name
> > and Full name and then I sort the list on Full name but then I got
> > this error "can only concatenate list (not "unicode") to list "
> >
> >
> > What is the command use to convert the Unicode to String ??
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> It sounds like you're doing something very wrong. Show some code.

Never mind, I've figured it out. You're supposed to use list.append(string),
not list=list+string or list+=string.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug 15 00:24:36 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: spawnv
In-Reply-To: <3B79BD94.4993F25B@algosyn.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108142114040.15509-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Olivier Scalbert wrote:

> On my Linux box, the following code does not start /usr/bin/gears:
>
> import os
> print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ())
>
> In fact it print 127 !
>
> but the following code starts /usr/bin/gears :
>
> import os
> os.system("/usr/bin/gears")
>
> Why ?

Hi Olivier,
The arguments you pass to the child process are C-style arguments, so the
first one needs to be the program name. Also, spawnv takes a list of
arguments to pass, so what you really want is:

print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/gears', ['gears'])

So if you wanted to pass an argument to gears then your list would
look like:

['gears',<your arg here>,...]

Another way is to use spawnl; you pass in a variable number of
arguments:

print os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/gears', 'gears', ...other args...)

Note that the spawn functions return the process ID of the child process,
unless you use P_WAIT, in which case they return the return code of the
child process once it finally exits.

-Dave




From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 22 11:35:55 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:35:55 GMT
Subject: Case Sensitivity: Survey Results
References: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com> <cpsnekcwjr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <h8k7otggbav5qusejn1j3at141rijsf3g9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:48:03 GMT, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<cpsnekcwjr.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>:

:Thanks for all the effort you put into this, Sheila!  This sure helps
:to put this issue to rest.

Great. Glad to know it was useful. (I got to learn a lot of Python along
the way, for managing the results--putting them into a DB and counting--
and HTML'ing them up. So, very good for me, too.)

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From Gerson.Kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 13:38:08 2001
From: Gerson.Kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:38:08 +0100
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108301156480.271-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <CLEFLIBFLLLHJNOKPNGFMEOMCAAA.Gerson.Kurz@t-online.de>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven D. Majewski [mailto:sdm7g at Virginia.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:21 PM
> To: Gerson Kurz
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins

> What does:
> 	"e1 e2 e3 e4 e5"
> mean when more than one of those e's is a function ?
> Can you tell which ones represent function calls if you don't
> know the value of all of the e's ?

Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own print
function - er - statement. So, is "print e2 e3 e4 e5" a valid statement ?
No. Is "print e2,e3,e4,e5" ambiguous ? No. So what is the problem?

I was quite astonished about how strongly people seemed to react to that
idea. Please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour, and
couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you have to
enclose the arguments in brackets.





From uncletom2106 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 19:28:47 2001
From: uncletom2106 at yahoo.com (Uncle Tom)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 23:28:47 GMT
Subject: VIM Editor 
Message-ID: <PEkb7.74005$EP6.17518826@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

I hope this question is not too far off topic.  I am looking for a pre
compiled binary of gvim (or console vim) for win32 with Python embedded.
Does anyone know where I might find such a thing.
Tks Bruce Golling (bwgolling at home.com)




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  8 19:48:44 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:48:44 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn9n34ea.1lk.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <3B71A15D.A025AFDA@tvd.be>
Message-ID: <3B71CFDC.C7930F05@engcorp.com>

Sammy Mannaert wrote:
> 
> cooledit  ... this editor even has it's scripting done in
> python and you can program scripts for the editor in python.

Thanks for the reference.  I tried Zeus and it crawled for
me, so that one's out.  Maybe cooledit would be an improvement.

What I don't understand, however, is the difference between
"scripting done in python" and "you can program scripts ...
in python".  Could you clarify please?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Aug 31 00:17:05 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 04:17:05 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <UXAj7.410578$T97.48646737@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3b8f0ee0.75686140@news.isar.de>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:33:56 GMT, cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff
Crawford) wrote:

>I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet, but if your socket-cache
>object is a file-like object (i.e. it implements the methods described
>at http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/bltin-file-objects.html) then
>you can do the following (where "obj" is your cache object):
>
>print >>obj, "stuff to send to the socket"
>print >>obj, "more stuff"
>
>You can use this form of the print statement to print to any file (or
>even to things like StringIO which implement the file object
>interface, but aren't real files) without having to reassign sys.stdout.

HEY! That *is* what I needed. You know, now I can do a simple
search&replace over all the gazillion print statements and make it
work. Ah, Python is great. 


From dinu at reportlab.com  Thu Aug  9 03:32:03 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 07:32:03 GMT
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to> <mailman.997303517.12342.python-list@python.org> <3d1ymm448m.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <3b723790.427908389@news.t-online.de>

On 08 Aug 2001 17:43:37 -0400, Andrew Kuchling
<akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in comp.lang.python:

>William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> writes:
>> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 11:12:22PM +0300, Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
>> > How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
>> > I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
>> > examples
>> 
>> I'm aware of any Python module that deals with PDF.  Your best bet may
>> be Python script to generate LaTeX file.
>
>Reportlab is a set of Python modules for generating PDF files, but
>unfortunately the documentation is sparse and there are few large
>examples of code using Reportlab.  The original questioner would be
>better off asking for help on the Reportlab mailing list than on the
>main Python list.
>
>--amk


ReportLab is a multi-layer package of PDF creating solutions,
mostly targeted at mission-critical business applications. Ok, 
so much for the marketing. ;-) 

The good news first: ReportLab can be used (and is used) in
tiny applications like for writing your own invoices (I also
do that), as well as in large scale e-business environments.
See this as a live online example running on a customer's
site: 

  http://www.keyfeatures.fidelity.co.uk/

The other news is that www.ReportLab.com has just started 
a major site revamping operation, which is why some demos
might not work right now. This should all be back to normal
in a short while, and with more examples! Please be patient!

The documentation: it's being worked on right now and it's
under constant improvement. All suggestions, especially the
more specific ones, are welcome, of course. 

And finally, as Andrew said, the ReportLab users mailing 
list is probably really a better place to get more instant
feedback, also from other users, on any particular issues
or questions. You find it here:
 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reportlab-users/

Have fun! (I'm sure you will!)

Dinu


-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From just at letterror.com  Wed Aug  8 14:28:13 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:28:13 +0200
Subject: Optimizing loops (was Re: Idiom for consecutive loops?)
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9krm84$8ra$1@panix2.panix.com> <3B7160E9.2450CBE7@letterror.com> <9krv4p$cea$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3B7184BD.7509ACC3@letterror.com>

[me]

> >FWIW, in Python 2.2 you could write:
> >
> >it = iter(l)
> >for item in it:
> >    justDoIt(item)
> >    if someTest(item):
> >        break
> >for item in it:
> >    doSomethingElse(item)
 
[Aahz]
> Someone else suggested this;

Ah, I see: I missed that one.

> I still think that using one for loop is
> clearer, more understandable, and easier to maintain.  This particular
> example really is *not* two for loops; it's one for loop that does two
> different things depending on whether a sentinel has been hit.
> Optimizing out the if into two loops is a Bad Idea IMO.

Hm, I'm not sure I agree with that: your suggested flag isn't all that
clear either, and I don't see the iterator version as an optimization.
I could argue just as well that the iterator version is clearer as it
clearly shows what is done first and what is done later. It's also a
fine example of how powerful iterators are. And sure, it's only clear
if you *understand* iterators, but that wouldn't be a good argument
against it.

Either way, it depends on what exactly you're doing which might be better
or clearer. Dismissing the iterator version as a "Bad Idea" is IMO in
itself a "Bad Idea" ;-)

Just


From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Aug 16 17:46:19 2001
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:46:19 -0600
Subject: is this a bug?
Message-ID: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F27DBB3@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Vassilis Virvilis [mailto:vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr]
> 
> Brian Quinlan wrote:
> > 
> 
> > The bottom line is that you should rarely use the "is" 
> operator except
> > when testing if an object is None (there is only one None object in
> > Python).
> > 
> 
> Halo Brian,
> 
> So is it safe to do?
> if type(a) is type(b): blah blah

In general, no -- although it will probably work most of the time in the
current implementation (didn't look too closely). The general idiom is:

  import types
  ...
  if type(x) == types.IntType:
     ...

although many people also use:

  if type(x) == type(1):

-- bjorn



From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 08:58:39 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:58:39 GMT
Subject: redirect python output + extension type with own print method = FAILS
References: <e71960c5.0108102057.28ba9f7a@posting.google.com> <997511725.462302@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <cpd762bvpz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> BOTTOMLINE ANSWER:  If you want to say "print xxx" and have the
> output go through your stdout - you don't really want a "print"
> method, you want a "repr" method.  No I/O, just return a string
> (as in PyString_FromString().)  The "print" statement does all the I/O.

Exactly, except strictly speaking, you need a "str" method.

Specifically, the print method only works if sys.stdout is a stdio
file object.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 10:06:16 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:06:16 +0200
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <mailman.997452856.7709.python-list@python.org> <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <8FWc7.9292$0c.65298@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <14671396.rESCP9MucG@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> schrub:

> "Cris A. Fugate" <fugate at lucent.com> wrote in message
> 
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000 at IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com...
>> Hi, I am trying to port some Tcl stuff to Python. Its kind of
>> disturbing that Python cannot handle scope. Sure you have namespaces,
>> but that doesn't help in this situation. In Tcl I would just say..
>>
>> proc swap {a b} {
>>    upvar a x
>>    upvar b y
>>    set z x
>>    set x y
>>    set y z
>> }
>> swap a b
>>
> Not knowing Tcl, I'm assuming that "upvar" effectively means "get
> address of" (a bit like the C "&" operator)?

No - it means "bind the local variable x to the caller's local variable 
whose name is in a". When you change x, then the callers variable is 
also changed, means, you conceptually poke in foreign stack frames :-(


markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com  Fri Aug 31 19:21:51 2001
From: gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:21:51 GMT
Subject: language lawyering - doc strings
References: <mailman.999166605.5269.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4rqneryl.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

"Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <tony at lsl.co.uk> writes:

> gcash wrote:
> > I know this is being pedantic, but where's the syntactical spec for
> > documentation strings in the language reference?
> 
> Hmm - docstrings are just that - strings - so one is allowed to put
> whatever text one likes in there, and I believe this will always be the
> case. This is a Good Thing, notwithstanding my next points...

Thanks, but I was looking for what allowed me to put a string as the first
statement of a function or class.

I know I *can*, but not because of anything the language spec says.

-gc

-- 
Favorite god: Thor               Favorite song: "Hammer Time"
Motto: "Use a bigger hammer"     In my toolbox: 1 screwdriver, 6 hammers.
Often heard saying: "... then I used a hammer on it"


From Alexey.Goldin at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Aug 31 13:54:08 2001
From: Alexey.Goldin at jpl.nasa.gov (Alexey Goldin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 10:54:08 -0700
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3zo8g869r.fsf@allegro.caltech.edu>

ksimpson at ttul.org (Ken Simpson) writes:

> The PyInline module allows you to put source code from other
> programming languages directly "inline" in a Python script or
> module. The code is automatically compiled as needed and then loaded
> for immediate access from Python.


This is insanely cool and produced some dropped jaws among some
IDL and Matlab fans around here.

The question is, what I am doing wrong here (or is it allowed at all)?

############ simple test code ##################
from PyInline import C

x = C.Builder(code="""
PyObject* test_pyobj(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
  int t;
  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &t))
        return NULL;
  return Py_BuildValue("i", t*2) ;
}

""")

# 2. Build the module. build() returns a new module object.
m = x.build()

# 3. Call a method in the newly built module.
print m.test_pyobj(3)
print m.test_pyobj("ha") # should bomb

#########################################################

Running the code:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_inline.py", line 21, in ?
    print m.test_pyobj(3)
SystemError: new style getargs format but argument is not a tuple

Version:


Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug  1 2001, 23:36:34) 
[GCC 2.95.4 20010319 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
import readline # dynamically loaded from /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/readline.so


Thanks!



BTW, may I look forward to C++ support? blitz
(www.oonumerics.org/blitz/ )?


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  9 07:54:31 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:54:31 -0400
Subject: Sockets question
References: <mailman.997349655.23903.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yPuc7.26112$5j7.2225770@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"frank booth" <killingjoke at mail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997349655.23903.python-list at python.org...
> Howdy.
>
> I'm sending something through a TCP socket, then closing it, then my
python script exits.
>
> For some reason, from time to time (and not on all machines) the remote
end doesn't always get the data.
>
> I thought close() is supposed to terminate the connection gracefully so it
should be OK, but its not.
>
> Maybe when the script exits the connection dies at once? Is there a simple
solution that will not involve waiting? (its used in a high-load system so I
should free the socket and leave the process as quickly as possible. It is
also impossible to change the remote program).
>
The TCP layer should not lose data just because you close a socket, as long
as you are using a correct call sequence. Perhaps the problem lies in an
application-layer incompatibility?

The only way to really find out what is going on is to trace the packets
going between your machine and the remote one. THis gives you accurate data
about the traffic, whcih is usually helpful. Ethereal is an open source
product that will let you do packet traces on Windows or Unixen (you don't
say which platform you are using). See

    http://www.ethereal.com/

for more data. If this is going to farr for your taste, perhaps you could
post your code? Since you don't even say what the application protocol is
it's hard top be more specific.

regards
 sTevE
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From ksunair at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 16:51:36 2001
From: ksunair at yahoo.com ( )
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:51:36 -0000
Subject: Newbie Question!
Message-ID: <9kn00o+iglr@eGroups.com>

Hello,

I am new to Python and interested to develop a new website using only 
Python. I would like to know, few things

1. Is there a simple example out there to print 'Hello World' on web?
like the one in PHP
<html><body><?php echo 'hello World' ?> </body></html>

2. Is there a tutorial or documentation available anywhere on the 
net, how to use MySql with Python?

Thanks.
-Nair




From jknapka at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 22 17:30:51 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:30:51 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3B83CFA6.F8E7ACA8@earthlink.net>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> 
> Does this help get you started?
> 
> >>> class A:
> ...     def a(self):
> ...             print 'A.a()'
> ...
> >>> class B(A):
> ...     pass
> ...
> >>> eval('B.%s' % 'a')
> <unbound method A.a>


Yes, this is quite nice, thanks :-)

-- Joe

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From heikowu at ceosg.de  Wed Aug 22 19:50:34 2001
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:50:34 +0200
Subject: IRC Client : Where to begin
In-Reply-To: <01082301430300.00436@phoenix>
References: <sdVg7.14129$V7.421320@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <01082301430300.00436@phoenix>
Message-ID: <01082301503401.00436@phoenix>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 01:43, Heiko Wundram wrote:
> [whoops, forgot the most important part... ;)]

List of references for the beginning:

1. http://www.amk.ca/bookstore/
   This site has info on many Python related books. I'd choose one from 
here... ;)

(oops, just noticed that the rest of my references are all in German... 
Sorry... If you want them anyways, tell me so!)

-- 
Yours sincerely,

	Heiko Wundram



From nemirCUTTHIS at hotmail.donspam.com  Thu Aug  9 11:29:03 2001
From: nemirCUTTHIS at hotmail.donspam.com (nemir)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:29:03 GMT
Subject: newbie-ness upgrade woes
Message-ID: <90F914D54nemirCUTTHIShotmaild@61.9.128.12>

I hope you can forgive the newbie-ness of all this,  but I have decided to 
run with Python as my learn first programming language now that I have been 
told to run a redhat apache server.

Lemme give you the rundown:

Installed an out of the box RedHat 7.1 server (WITHOUT a GUI) which comes 
with Python 1.5.2.  A little outdated I thought, so I determined that now 
the rest of the box is stable I will upgrade.  I go get the Python-
2.1.1.tgz file,  run 

tar xfvz Python-2.1.1.tgz

And it all uncompressed great.

I CD to the new Python-2.1.1 directory.

I try to run

python setup.py install

as per the instructions on http://python.org/doc/2.1.1/inst/standard-
install.html and it spits back the following error:

  File "setup.py", line 57
    extlist = [ext for ext in extlist if ext.name == modname]
                     ^

Same if I try to run python setup.py build


And I can't find what to do next anywhere.

B-/

Any advice would be *greatly* appreciated.


Thanks in advance,


Nemir


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug  5 21:09:16 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:09:16 +1000
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
In-Reply-To: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67F9@eden.vmlabs.com>
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67F9@eden.vmlabs.com>
Message-ID: <0108061109160K.14602@ike>

On Saturday 04 August 2001 03:50, John Schmitt wrote:
> Whitespace is beautiful and my code is art! :-)

mumble .. eye of the beholder .. mumble :)


> If I have a function that takes a few arguments, I lay it out like this:
>
> def foo\
> (
>     argument1,    # meaninful comments
>     argument2,
> ):
>     # more beautiful code here

Why wouldn't you insert those meaningful comments into a docstring so that it 
can be used by documentation tools? The layout of the function is quite 
jarringly different from the "accepted" python style (as described in Guido's 
guide of style).

def foo(spam, implement):
   '''foo takes a can of spam and applies the implement to it, returning the 
result.

   spam - the can of spam to operate on
   implement - the implement to operate with

   This function blah blah blah blah.
   '''

Here is a longer example:

def init(instance_home, template, backend, adminpw):
    '''Initialise an instance using the named template and backend.

    instance_home - the directory to place the instance data in
    template - the template to use in creating the instance data
    backend - the database to use to store the instance data
    adminpw - the password for the "admin" user

    The instance_home directory will be created using the files found in
    the named template (roundup.templates.<name>). A standard instance_home
    contains:
        . instance_config.py
          - simple configuration of things like the email address for the
            mail gateway, the mail domain, the mail host, ...
        . dbinit.py and select_db.py
          - defines the schema for the hyperdatabase and indicates which
            backend to use.
        . interfaces.py
          - defines the CGI Client and mail gateway MailGW classes that are
            used by roundup.cgi, roundup-server and roundup-mailgw.
        . __init__.py
          - ties together all the instance information into one interface
        . db/
          - the actual database that stores the instance's data
        . html/
          - the html templates that are used by the CGI Client
        . detectors/
          - the auditor and reactor modules for this instance

    The html directory is typically extracted from the htmlbase module in
    the template.
    '''

This information is accessible using pydoc, and is also eminently readable 
while perusing the source.


     Richard



From someone at home.com  Sat Aug 11 13:46:19 2001
From: someone at home.com (SRK)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:46:19 -0400
Subject: Zope 2.4 as W2k service
References: <U4ed7.1652$96.1539@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <f8ed7.1653$96.1409@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

OH and I forgot to add, I had ActivePython 2.1 and Python 2.2a1 installed
along with Zope.

Thanks again.
SRKECHKN

"SRK" <someone at home.com> wrote in message
news:U4ed7.1652$96.1539 at srvr1.engin.umich.edu...
> Hi.  I'm sorry to post in the python newsgroup, but I can't seem to find a
> Zope newsgroup.  My problem is with the lastest Zope 2.4 distribution for
> Windows.  For some reason, running Zope as a service will gradually
corrupt
> the entire OS.  First, the network in the control panel stopped working,
and
> then some other applications, and then media player.  I'm reluctant to
> install Zope again, but I do need to have it for development purposes.
Does
> anyone have this problem?  And are there any solutions?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> SRKECHKN
>
>




From michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk  Wed Aug 22 13:19:07 2001
From: michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Michael Williams)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:19:07 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <9lvt4s018c6@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <f3ccacbf.0108220919.5869ce24@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<9lvt4s018c6 at enews3.newsguy.com>...
> > (Amongst other things!) what I want to do is multiply an array of
> > floating points numbers with a float elementwise, i.e.
> >
> > >>> [1.0, 2.0, 3.0] * 4.0
> > [4.0, 8.0, 12.0]
> 
> The pure-Python way is a list-comprehension:
>     [x * 4.0 for x in [1.0, 2.0, 3.0]]
> [4.0, 8.0, 12.0]
.
> > relatively small (~10^2 elements). I looked at NumPy's array() object
> > and the array module that comes with a standard installation as
> > solutions and they both seem to fit the bill too. Is using either of
> > these an unecessariy complex/slow way of doing this (and only this)?
> 
> NumPy is VERY fast and excellent for your purposes.  

Thanks for the advice everyone. I was worried that using Numpy would
be a bit of sledghammer/nut for what is a relatively simple operation
but having done an array() it does seem to be the easiest way to
forget about the problem and have the array operate as I would like
them to in most circumstances. I'm probably worrying about speed a bit
to much becuase the actual maths of the method are inherently
inefficient. Numpy seems to offer readability as well as speed which
will do me just fine.

-- 
Michael Williams


From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 06:29:10 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:29:10 +0200
Subject: Installing mod_python.dll under Apache
References: <mailman.998334929.20023.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ltd5m01org@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998334929.20023.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> I took a look at mod_python myself because I was interested in not having
the
> interpreter loaded each time. What I discovered was that mod_python does
NOT
> work in a method similar to mod_php. Read
>
http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.6/doc-html/tut-what-it-do.html
> and take a look at the part at the bottom that reads 'Some food for
thought'.

Yes, but typically your handler script would examine the request and
dispatch
to whatever script is appropriate for serving that request.  In simple
cases where what you want is similar to what PHP gives you, you would
in particular use mod_python.publisher, as explained a couple of pages
ahead in that same document,
http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.6/doc-html/tut-pub.html.

Or, to migrate legacy CGI scripts,
http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.6/doc-html/hand-cgi.html.

> I have been thinking of using FastCGI instead, but haven't got around to
it
> yet.

Sure, FastCGI may be an excellent idea, particularly if you
also want to speed up other servers and/or script in other
languages -- it ties you neither to Python, nor to Apache,
As I'm sure you know (but just in case...;-) you get a choice
of serialized requests with Robin Dunn's fcgi.py at
http://alldunn.com/python/fcgi.py, or thread-per-request
with Andreas Jung's fcgi_wrapper.py (in addition to fcgi.py) at
http://www.suxers.de/python/fcgi.htm.


Alex





From darwin at con-digital.com  Sat Aug 25 09:13:43 2001
From: darwin at con-digital.com (Con-Digital)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:13:43 -0100
Subject: AD : All On Digital Channels for less than you spend on beer a week
 :-)
Message-ID: <U1Oh7.18044$_71.791942@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>

    All Channel Auto Update Cards ( No Inputting of monthly codes) ?25
    Modified Originl Cards (The Full Monty) ?40
    
    Both are ECM Proof :-) and Include the New ITV Sport Channels
    
    darwin at con-digital.com
    
    Pay via paypal for next day delivery
    






From sa at bayt.net  Thu Aug  9 13:25:59 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 10:25:59 -0700
Subject: looking up an instance's methods
References: <280f26fb.0108090358.5aa61911@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108090925.a6a2851@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters wrote in message on thread
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=2f6a49e6e48ee0af,4
Subject: RE: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list

TP> That is, it's always been the case that dir(class_instance) didn't display
TP> the methods of the class of which class_instance was an instance.  But
TP> objects of builtin types were not instances of classes, so dir() did
TP> something entirely different for them.  This is one consequence of the
TP> infamous "type/class split":  objects of builtin types and objects of
TP> user-defined classes act differently in subtle ways.  2.2 aims to repair
TP> that.

...

TP> Much as I hate doing it, for this reason I'm
TP> going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().

(Shakeeb Alireza) wrote in a message 
SA> Is there any particular reason why one can't directly introspect an
SA> instance's methods (using dir(instance) for example) without having to
SA> call the __dict__ namespace of its class? Is this situation likely to
SA> change in Python 2.2?

Understand the situation a bit better. Thanks.

Regards,

Shakeeb


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 03:26:01 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:26:01 +0200
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <9mkpqa0158l@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mk80i$hdf$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> Is there any editor support python?

Lots of them!  The great classic, Emacs, has a cool
Python-mode (all instructions about it are on the
www.python.org site, which seems significant:-).  Its
perennial dark-horse rival (and my favourite), VIM,
goes one better by letting you program editor macros
in Python as well as supporting the usual stuff such
as Python syntax colorization, autoindent etc.

But although I use VIM for most of my editing, my
vote as most-amazing-editor goes to SciTE, see
http://www.scintilla.org/.  The most amazing thing
about it is http://www.scintilla.org/Sc1.exe.  It's
just 200K to download (vs a few megabytes for VIM
and many megabytes for Emacs) as a stand-alone
Windows executable -- and that single little .exe
file is a complete editor that knows about umpteen
languages INCLUDING not just colorization, auto-
indent, folding, etc, but ALSO the ability to run
(or compile, etc, depending on the programming
language you're using) the stuff you're editing
in another pane.  The author, Neil Hodgson, and
the dozens of contributors, have really done a
SWELL job!!!  The only thing that doesn't work in
the 200K Sc1.Exe is Help (F1) -- I guess the help
file just didn't fit:-) -- but the whole download
for Windows, http://www.scintilla.org/wscite139.zip,
is just 360K.  Also runs on Linux of course, using
Gtk+ 1.2.*, and you can also get it as RPM's, as
well of course as getting the source code (600K
as .tgz, or 670K as .zip since .zip just doesn't
compress as much as gzip:-).

Sorry, I let enthusiasm carry me away a bit.  There
is Python support in a zillion other editors, too,
of course - free and commercial, cross-platform
and single-platform, huge (Emacs) or tiny (SciTE),
and so on, and so forth.


Alex





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug  7 09:14:34 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:14:34 +0100
Subject: Zope python paths
Message-ID: <0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I have just installed Zope 2.4 and am trying to get some packages to run
with it. These are failing fairly miserably with really strange errors
such as can't find module asyncore.

I suspect path confusion with my existing Python 2.1 setup.

A simple check with an external method

def pythonPath():
        import sys
        s='path=\n'
        for p in sys.path:
                s += p + '\n'
        return s

give me that the path inside this method is

path=
C:\Python\WebSite\lib\python\ZopeZODB3
C:\Python\WebSite\lib\python
C:\Python\WebSite
C:\Python\WebSite/lib/python
C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib
C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/plat-win
C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/win32
C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/win32/lib
C:\Python\WebSite
C:\Python\WebSite
c:\python\pythonwin                     !
c:\python\win32                         !
c:\python\win32\lib                     !
c:\python                               !
c:\python\website\bin\dlls
c:\python\website\bin\lib
c:\python\website\bin\lib\plat-win
c:\python\website\bin\lib\lib-tk
c:\python\website\bin

the bits marked with ! are obviously causing some confusion as they
relate to my existing installation. Is there an obvious way to inhibit
this erroneous path pickup if I can determine where it comes from?

I don't seem to have a PYTHONPATH environment variable set in the .cmd
file that runs zope. 
-- 
Robin Becker


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:48:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:48:50 +0200
Subject: know if someone ping me
References: <mailman.998546434.927.python-list@python.org> <1777401.ESeGDPOM1B@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <9m31ku0271e@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:1777401.ESeGDPOM1B at lunix.schabi.de...
> Hi,
>
> noprianto <opennopri at yahoo.com> schrub:
>
> > How do i know if someone ping my system ?
>
> Oh, well, "ping" in what sense?
>
> - CIMP echo request message?
> - ARP "ping" (address request)?
> - IRC Ping?
> - UDP Echo Message (port 7)?
> - TCP  faked package "ping" (provokes a reset)?
> - TCP Keepalive Messages?
>
> or something else I don't remember?
>
> And what has this to do with python?

Very little, I guess, at least for ICMP
pings.

> And why do you want to know?

Presumably the original poster wants to keep an
eyes on such happenings -- but ICMP Echo Request
doesn't get to applications (including Python
ones) on many apps, but is resolved within the
lower-levels of the TCP/IP stack in many
architectures I know.

Logging any or all such events is quite feasible
with iptables on Linux 2.4.* (and you can also
pass packets to a user-space application, so you
MIGHT be able to use some Python here:-), but I
wouldn't know where to start on any form of
Windows, for example (and I'm supposed to be a
Windows expert:-).


Alex





From jcollins at boulder.net  Thu Aug  9 08:53:36 2001
From: jcollins at boulder.net (Jeffery D. Collins)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 06:53:36 -0600
Subject: sorting strings by size
In-Reply-To: <3B7266C9.90706@herts.ac.uk>; from m.1.robinson@herts.ac.uk on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:32:41AM +0100
References: <3B7266C9.90706@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20010809065336.C3503@boulder.net>

def sort_by_len(x,y):
    return len(y) - len(x)

l = motifs.keys()
l.sort(sort_by_len)



On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:32:41AM +0100, Mark Robinson wrote:
> Can anyone thing of a more eligant way of doing this? I am trying to 
> extract the keys of my dict and sort them according to size, but this 
> currently seems kinda crude
> 
> temp = [(len(x), x) for x in motifs.keys()]
> temp.sort()
> temp.reverse()
> motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]
> 
> blobby

-- 
Jeffery Collins (http://www.boulder.net/~jcollins)



From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Tue Aug 14 10:46:11 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:46:11 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <9l8saq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg> <3B77FF02.F2B5A90@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <9lbdjj$f0b$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>

According to Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com>:
> Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> >     self.state = 1 - self.state
> 
> Why not just 
> 
> 	self.state = not self.state

Good point. "x = 1 - x" was what I used back in the days when I first
encountered programming and Basic. Does "x = not x" work in Basic? I no
longer remember... (Presumably so.)


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From Nick.Potter at maths.anu.edu.au  Wed Aug 22 00:49:28 2001
From: Nick.Potter at maths.anu.edu.au (Nick Potter)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 21:49:28 -0700
Subject: problem compiling PyLapack
Message-ID: <a4ac7a1e.0108212049.2291ac08@posting.google.com>

Greetings all.

I have downloaded Konrad Hinsen's PyLapack module and have, for the
past couple of days, been trying to install this modules, and have
been having many problems.

For the record, I have:
Solaris OS version 5.8
python 2.1
and I think gcc version 2.95.2

First of all, when I run python setup.py gcc can't find arrayobject.h
so I append the line -I/usr/local/include/python2.1/Numeric, which is
the directory containing arrayobject.h, to the INCLUDEPY variable in
Makefile.
OK... so far so good.

Next when I run make, the compilation spits out hundreds of lines
like:
>Text relocation remains                       referenced
>     against symbol                  offset    in file
> GPC.dcabs1EQUIV1_0                  0x0       /opt/lib/libblas.a(dcabs1.o)
> GPC.dcabs1EQUIV1_0                  0x4       /opt/lib/libblas.a(dcabs1.o)
>   <snip....>
> 
>   etc etc...
> 
>   <snip....>
> __do_f_out_nv                       0x5c      /opt/lib/libblas.a(xerbla.o)
> __e_wsfe                            0x64      /opt/lib/libblas.a(xerbla.o)
> __s_stop                            0x74      /opt/lib/libblas.a(xerbla.o)

so I have located this problem in various places on the web, and am
pretty sure that I need to change the LDSHARED line in the Makefile
from $(CC) -shared to something else.  Now I have tried
1. $(CC) -G
2. /usr/ccs/bin/ld -G
and many other different permutations and combinations for the
LDSHARED variable in the makefile, but all to no avail.  I have also
tried adding -Xlinker -export-dynamic as in the Python FAQ but this
doesn't seem to be working either.
The problem is I get implicit function declarations while gcc is
compiling the .c files, and then ImportErrors after I've installed the
.so files into site-packages/ directory, namely errors like:

> ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: relocation error: file 
> /opt/lib/python2.1/site-packages/PyLapack/cblas.so: symbol caxpy: referenced
> symbol not found

I have also tried the above with and without -DNO_APPEND_FORTRAN, and
the __hack__.c file.

Please somebody help because this is driving me nuts.

Thanks
Nick


From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 18:55:56 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:55:56 GMT
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com> <vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net> <9l409801oli@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <0Kid7.141343$um3.1230050@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9l409801oli at enews4.newsguy.com...

OK.  Time for humble pie....

> worry about that at this stage.  Organizing one table of attributes (or
N+1,
> if you want attributes of N different types) in this manner is no
"hack" --
> it's
> standard operating procedure for relational DB design.

I quickly stand corrected (as I anticipated).  This is EXACTLY the type of
thing that I KNEW that I was going to overlook and get called on.  Again, I
really appreciate the type information that you folks repeatedly are giving
me here.  It is obvious that I am not thinking nearly as clearly as you guys
are about this.  Again, perhaps it is my "greeness" with actual database
schema design that has put the blinders on my eyes.  Let me explain the line
of thought that I initially thought that you were pursuing:

One table will define the relationship between children and parents (this
one has already been laid out before by someone).
Another table (that I think you suggested) would link the attributes back to
the node that it was describing.  My thoughts were (and this is really,
really dumb now that I think of it) that each record in the first table
would have one and ONLY one record in the second table.  The second table
would have to have multiple ATTRIBUTE columns, the same number as the
maximum attributes for any particular node.  Now, this is really stupid for
me to have thought along those lines for a couple of reasons: 1) because if
I were to create a schema like that, then it would be pointless to have the
second table.  Since there would be a one-to-one relationship between table
one and table two, why have table two?  Why not just tack it on to table
one?  2) It doesn't take full advantage of the relational nature of
databases (which you are so graciously schooling me in - and I am humbled by
my lack of knowledge in the matter).  So, now that I have exposed my
ignorance to the world.....

>E.g. say all of your
> attributes have a string name and string contents, one attribute always
> belong to just one child (many-to-one, not many-to-many), then what you
> want is a table with three fields: ATTNAME (attribute name), CHILDID (the
> ID of the child to which the attribute belongs), ATTVALUE (attribute
value).
> CHILDID is indeed a foreign key, and ATTNAME+CHILDID the primary key
> of the attribute table (eschew nonstandard RDBMS which don't let you
> have foreign keys as part of primary keys... but if you're stuck with one,

....this is the solution that I could not see the forest for the trees on.
This would definitely work.  And would actually be a fairly simple desing to
work with.  And would not be a bear to extend like I originally thought,
because it appears flexible enough to handle as many different attributes
and types of attributes that I could dream of.  But I am still not sure I
will use it.  I will explain why below.  But I just want to say, again, how
utterly grateful I am for all of the posts for the primary reason that you
folks are stimulating me to think in ways that I am not accustomed to
thinking.  Now that I see what you are saying above, it is obvious and it is
a simple solution.  But I was completely oblivious to it.  Have you ever
heard the saying, "What you don't know, you don't know that you don't know"?
(One more "don't know than absolutely necessary, but it emphasizes the
point.)  You opened up something that I was ignorant of and for that I am
sincerely grateful.

> It's really as simple as I just said -- relational databases ARE a pretty
> powerful concept, you know.  Whatever you end up using for this
> project, I heartily suggest you plan to get some RDB design ideas
> in the future: a well-designed RDB scales up enormously (with the
> right underlying technology -- I'm not talking of abusing the Jet
> engine, aka 'access DB', or Gadfly, for an Enterprise-scale project,
> but of reusing a logical DB design born for a small engine 'up' with
> an Enterprise-class engine such as DB2, Oracle, or SQL Server).

Point very well taken...it will be a good thing to keep in mind for future
projects.

> Sure, sure, XML *IS* great -- whenever you need to exchange (and
> particularly transmit) information between machines, XML's the
> cat's pajamas.  But for storing large datasets locally, XML textfiles
<snip>
> translation step hierarchy <-> relational.  If the amount of data
> you're going to handle in one step will comfortably fit in memory,
> and you have no need for other typical RDBMS benefits such as
> transactional integrity and data-independence (ability to easily
> write other apps in the future that exploit the same data in a very
> different access pattern), then XML may well be the way to go.

I will probably use XML for a number of reasons:

1)  All of the data that I plan on using should easily fit into memory.
2)  The data that I plan on using fits nicely into the framework that XML
provides.
3)  (And this one is primarily for Peter Hansen, to answer his statement on
picking something simple and getting it working)  XML may not be the
simplest approach for this project (if only from the standpoint of the
learning curve).  I could use stuff that I am already more familiar with
rather than learning XML and how to walk down a DOM tree; and I could
probably put together a set of scripts with the familiar technology more
quickly.  And I would probably (as Peter pointed out) be following good XP
rationality by doing so.  However, I think that XML fits in nicely for a
future project that I have in mind.  I know that this violates XP, but I
have that flexibility with the project that I am working on right now.  So,
for my technological growth and for learning something for a future project,
I will probably go with XML.

Again, thanks for all the info and I appreciate the patience that you folks
have had with me....time for a big helping of humble pie....




From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Fri Aug 10 17:56:57 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:56:57 +0200
Subject: normalize and END_DOCUMENT in pulldom...
Message-ID: <9l1lba$inu$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

[Sorry if this is duplicated... It seemed to disappear...]

1. Is there any way to make Node.normalize() work in pulldom?
   Perhaps a DOMEventStream.normalize() would be just as useful?

(I see that Paul Prescod in example [1] assumes that the stream
is normalized... Or at least that some character nodes are normalized;
is there any guarantee that the contents of some tags will be returned
as one character node, e.g. if everything is on one line? He does
things like print "<title>%s</print>" % node.data, where node corresponds
to a CHARACTERS event... I may be missing something here...)

2. Why isn't an END_DOCUMENT event returned when the document ends?
   I get a START_DOCUMENT, but not an END_DOCUMENT...

I guess I don't really need it, since the event stream will end
anyway, but it seems odd.

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2000-June/002571.html

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick




From dinu at reportlab.com  Tue Aug 14 12:24:18 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:24:18 GMT
Subject: Progress on missing features?
Message-ID: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de>

Hi,

given the recent burst of new features in Python I do wonder 
what happend to those that are missing from Python for a 
long while now? I'm listing here only these:

  - interfaces
  - class methods
  - type indicators (opt.)

Being aware of the class/type unification announced for
before Python 3000, I'm not listing this one above.

The first two could be considered quite important for ma-
king the language more complete in terms of object orien-
tation. (Better information hiding might be another topic,
but it seems like this is broadly considered non-Pythonic
in the Python community.)

I'm just curious if there has been any progress on any of 
these as I'm not following all SIGs that might be dealing 
with them or not, but notice a peak of activites in other
domains of language development.

Regards,

Dinu


-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug  3 21:20:28 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 01:20:28 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <gcjmmtss02kv5ofm1o2anpbof27pdfgpa0@4ax.com>

>Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the ++/-- 
>operator out of...

In the early years of Python, and even to some extent today,
one of Python's characterizing features is Minimalism.

In any case, ++ in other languages is often abused to the point
of much confusion. The "i++;" case is only one of many.

Note that in language where you _can_ type i++, you're probably
also writing ';'. So Python's "i+=1" is equally terse.

C//



From ksimpson at ttul.org  Tue Aug 28 14:05:59 2001
From: ksimpson at ttul.org (Ken Simpson)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:05:59 -0700
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
Message-ID: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com>

The PyInline module allows you to put source code from other
programming languages directly "inline" in a Python script or
module. The code is automatically compiled as needed and then loaded
for immediate access from Python.

In short, PyInline lets you do things like this:

from PyInline import C
import __main__

# Let's put some C code "inline" with our Python:

x = C.Builder(code="""

#include <stdio.h>
void ja(char *str) {
  printf("Just another %s hacker\n", str);
}

""", targetmodule=__main__) # Add C methods to the __main__ module.

x.build()
ja("Inline")
---

PyInline is the Python equivalent of
Brian Ingerson's Inline module for Perl (http://inline.perl.org),
which was awarded the "Best Module" award at this year's Perl
Conference.

More information about PyInline can be found at the PyInline home page
on
SourceForge:

   http://pyinline.sourceforge.net

To discuss PyInline further, please join the pyinline-discuss mailing
list at
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pyinline-discuss


From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Aug 27 18:27:39 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:27:39 GMT
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
References: <mailman.998924903.22111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8ac931.76118252@news.laplaza.org>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:08:59 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
wrote:

:Hello, 
:
:I am trying to compile Python 2.1.1 on my Linux RedHat 6.2
:system and am getting
:
:# rpm -bb python-2.1.spec
:error:=

Ahem (cough, cough).  Builds cleanly from the source tarball. With all
due respect to Sean R's work on source rpm's, I've found little use
for them. I've been lost in the web of pointless dependencies too many
times.

and from a later message:

:It seems, RedHat has inconsistencies...

That's an EXTREMELY polite way of putting it.


Mats Wichmann



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Aug 29 15:27:45 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:27:45 GMT
Subject: programme call with popen
References: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com> <3B8D2533.9DDDF419@ccvcorp.com> <slrn.pl.9oqbqt.ok2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <9mjfnh$j2q$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl>:
| Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:24:03 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> pisze:
|
| >>>> myoutput = fout.read()
| > 
| > Note that this will block until the program has finished running.
|
| I'm not sure about Windows, but it won't block that long on Unix.
| Both processes will run in parallel exchanging data. The consumer
| will temporarily block when the queue is empty and the producer will
| block when the queue's buffer is full.

That would be true if both parties used system level I/O functions
posix.read and posix.write - which is in my opinion a really good
idea in a situation like this.

But the file object shown above will have its own process buffering,
from the C library.  He's right about what happens in that example,
give it a try with fin, fout = os.popen2('ping xxx.yyy.zzz') or
something like that.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 28 08:59:35 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:59:35 -0500
Subject: BUG? Re: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108280947530.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
References: <15242.31823.671530.372011@beluga.mojam.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108280947530.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <15243.38327.524678.306744@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roman> OK... Using Distutils for Python 1.5.2 for building Python 2.1.1
    Roman> is impossible, because there are things missing and all kinds of
    Roman> new syntax features (list comprehensions, +=, **args-call
    Roman> syntax).

Roman,

Why aren't you just using the 2.1.1 distribution?  You shouldn't need *any*
Python interpreter until after the core has been built.  Setup.py is only
used to build the stuff in the Modules directory after the core interpreter
has been built in the usual configure/make fashion.

    Roman> How people are supposed to build and install Python 2.1.1 on
    Roman> RedHat 6x systems _right way_?

I'm sure many people have done this already.  Start from the tar.gz
distribution. 

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From smnordby at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 21:59:22 2001
From: smnordby at yahoo.com (SteveN)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:59:22 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.996814686.1485.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6B56FA.E433189B@yahoo.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Will Ware]
> > ...
> > I'm trying to remember when and where exactly Guido promised me
> > that I would get a heavily weighted vote in the design of Python.
> > As I sift through my few memories of direct interaction with Guido,
> > I come up with "never".
> 
> No, he doesn't promise votes, but if you *want* votes, all you have to do is
> ask for them.  Heck, if you want a *million* votes, just ask and you'll get
> them too.  I have at least trillions of votes, thanks to a signing bonus.
> You can even sell your votes to others, if you want -- votes are granted
> under a very Pythonic "do whatever you want" license.  Here:
> 
>     +-------------------------------------------+
>     | Be it known that this instrument entitles |
>     | the bearer to 1000000 (One Million)       |
>     | Python Votes.                             |
>     |                                           |
>     | GvR                                       |
>     +-------------------------------------------+
> 
> Make as many copies as you like.  Guido promises to honor them at the stated
> value -- provided that an issue arises that's open to voting.
> 
> the-price-of-fool's-gold-is-always-too-high-ly y'rs  - tim

If I wanted those kind of votes, I'd move to Florida :)

-SteveN-


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 11 09:30:26 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:30:26 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9l35hb03081 at enews1.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
>    ...
>> why is b2.getStory not getStory? Is it because importing from a isn't
>> the same as the importing from the __main__ module?
>
>Exactly.  You have two instances of the module, one referred
>to by sys.modules['__main__'] and the other by sys.modules['a'].
>
>
>> What is the correct way to import from the main script?
>
>import __main__
>
>
>Alex

not exactly good programming though if I later I import run from a in a
different main script.

Isn't this a wart?
-- 
Robin Becker


From pstraus at acad.stedwards.edu  Mon Aug 13 14:00:38 2001
From: pstraus at acad.stedwards.edu (Phillip Strauss)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:00:38 GMT
Subject: networking
Message-ID: <20010813125337.3d63028a.pstraus@acad.stedwards.edu>

Can someone point me to any online reference to networking with python?  Socket I/O and that sort of stuff.  I always seem to leave my python books at home when i need that at the office. :|
Thanks,

Phil

pstraus at acad.stedwards.edu


From steveha at animal.blarg.net  Tue Aug 21 23:04:44 2001
From: steveha at animal.blarg.net (Steve R. Hastings)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:04:44 GMT
Subject: Catching all exceptions *and* their args
Message-ID: <gjFg7.269$EE3.123895@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Hello.  I'm a Python newbie who has searched a bunch of documentation
before posting this.  If it's documented somewhere I missed, please point
me at the documentation.


I am trying to write a simple script using the getopt module.  It turns out
that when you have an unexpected command-line flag, getopt raises an
exception.

Well, I said to myself, I don't care what the exception is; an unexpected
flag is grounds to exit the script.  Easily done:


try
	(options, arguments) = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "i")
except:
	usage()
	sys.exit(1)


And this works.  If you pass "-i" as an option, all is well, but "-a" or
anything else prints the usage string and exits.

But I noticed that getopt was returning a nifty message explaining just
what the problem was.  So I figured I would just catch all exceptions, grab
the error, and print it.  Like so:


try
	(options, arguments) = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "i")
except Exception, err:
	print err
	usage()
	sys.exit(1)



It didn't work.  I dug into the problem and found that getopt was raising a
string, rather than an exception object.  (The default python on my system
turns out to be 1.5; if I explicitly use 2.0, the above code works
correctly, since in 2.0 getopt raises a subclass of Exception.)


So, my question: how can I catch all exceptions *and* grab the error
string?  "except Exception, err:" only works with well-behaved functions
that only raise subclasses of Exception; I'd like code that works with
anything, including strings.  I was planning to give away the script when
I'm done writing it, and in a perfect world the script would work under
either Python 1.5 or any newer version.

A truly general solution would allow catching all exceptions and grabbing
all arguments passed when the exception was raised.  Is there such a
general solution in Python?

Thanks for your time.
--
Steve R. Hastings		"Vita est"
steve at hastings.org		http://www.blarg.net/~steveha


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 06:55:16 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:55:16 -0500
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15235.36756.167153.781138@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting
    Paul> garbage collection (which leaks memory if there's circular
    Paul> structure) instead of Lisp-style garbage collection?  As Python
    Paul> gets used for more large application development, it gets
    Paul> troublesome to make the programmer worry about whether the data
    Paul> has cycles.

As Simon Brunning pointed out already, Python since 2.0 uses reference
counting for the usual stuff and has a garbage collector just for the cyclic
stuff (lists, tuples, dicts and maybe a couple other object types -
extension module programmers can hook into the gc system or not, as their
needs dictate).  I believe the main reason Python doesn't use garbage
collection for the whole kit-n-kaboodle is that garbage collection
introduces non-determinism in the actual time an object gets reclaimed.  A
common argument used is that of memory vs. much more limited resources like
file descriptors.  Common usage like

    for f in glob.glob("*.c"):
        file = open(f)
        do_fun_stuff(file)

could easily run out of file descriptors for a large directory before a gc
pass was required.  Obviously, the programmer can do something like
"file.close()" or "del f" to force file closure, but that just shifts the
problem of reclamation from the system to the programmer and may actually
introduce bugs.  If I changed the above loop to

    for f in glob.glob("*.c"):
        file = open(f)
        do_fun_stuff(file)
        file.close()

there's no guarantee that the program is actually done with the file object
(do_fun_stuff may sometimes tuck away a reference to the in another data
structure based upon what it reads), so closing it before its reference
count reaches zero would be a bug.

Of course, programming in a manner that relied on such obscure semantics
would itself be error-prone, so this example is perhaps only really useful
to demonstrate why gc is a tool of the devil and should be avoided whenever
possible. ;-)

choose-your-poison-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From dalke at acm.org  Wed Aug 15 05:28:40 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:28:40 +0100
Subject: Build problems on IRIX (TRIX)
References: <k0ny9olpul5.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <9le838$pbp$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

[cc'ed to the author]

Joakim Hove:
>  ld32: ERROR   48 : Cannot access registry file ./so_locations (No
> locks available) - ignored.

I've gotten this message before, but it's been too long since I
used IRIX and I needed a google search to remember what that meant.

Try compiling in a directory which isn't NFS shared, as suggested in

http://public.kitware.com/pipermail/vtkusers/1999-September/002169.html

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug  2 12:09:07 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:09:07 GMT
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108010342.22378ae3@posting.google.com> <cpn15jydno.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <23891c90.0108020110.40b340c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DWea7.61626$EP6.14485145@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Paul Boddie" <paul at boddie.net> wrote in message
news:23891c90.0108020110.40b340c7 at posting.google.com...
...
PB> > > I can see the benefits of making these changes in the context
of a
> > > numeric system overhaul, but what seemed to be communicated was,
> >
...
GvR> > Words put in my mouth.
>
> Not really, since I said that this was what "seemed" to be
communicated. ;-)

I also try to carefully qualify statements that would otherwise
constitute putting words in mouthes.  Perhaps *emphasis* would get
readers to better notice such qualifications.

In regards the discussion process: in response to one of my detailed
critiques of PEP238 promotion, Guido admitted that both sides had made
mistakes.  I decided to leave it at that.  The more important point
was get a commitment (now given) to the extended transition that many
people feel they need (even though an immediate change would be better
for me).

Terry J. Reedy







From joonas at olen.to  Thu Aug 16 17:19:42 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:19:42 +0300
Subject: simple question
References: <b740d7ae.0108161220.22ab0377@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C38ED.3DD931B2@olen.to>

Bignose3 wrote:
> 
> I am a student starting to learn python coming from a C++ background.
> I am writing a simple simulation program were I am trying to assign
> each "swimmer" an ID.  Unfortunatley the way I would do it in C++
> doesnt work for python.  Can someone guide me in the right direction.
> 
> Here is the code that doesnt work, see what I am trying to do:
> 
> nextID= 0
> class swimmer:
>     def __init__(self, xpos, ypos):
>         self.ID = nextID
>         nextID= nextID + 1
>         self.xpos= xpos
>         self.ypos= ypos
>     def xcord(self):
>         print self.xpos
>     def ycord(self):
>         return self.ypos
>     def swimmerID(self):
>         return self.ID
> 
> An explanation would be great to.  Not a complex program but you have
> to start somewhere:)

Add the global statement to __init__ achieve the result simply.

class swimmer:
    def __init__(self, xpos, ypos):
	global nextID
        self.ID = nextID
        nextID= nextID + 1
        self.xpos= xpos
        self.ypos= ypos
    def xcord(self):
        print self.xpos
    def ycord(self):
        return self.ypos
    def swimmerID(self):
        return self.ID

>>> swimmer(1,2).swimmerID()
0
>>> swimmer(1,2).swimmerID()
1
>>> swimmer(1,2).swimmerID()
2
>>> swimmer(1,2).swimmerID()
3


From juneaftn at orgio.net  Sat Aug 25 09:16:56 2001
From: juneaftn at orgio.net (June Kim)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 06:16:56 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998679338.16044.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5699ebda.0108250516.5c85263c@posting.google.com>

"Jesse F. W" <jessefw at loop.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.998679338.16044.python-list at python.org>...
> Dear Python-list-iners,
> 	I have another Testing related question.  How are unit tests done 
> when the units to be tested get lots of information from nested 
> objects, e.g. (in a method of a class to be tested):
> if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop':
> how would this be tested?

First of all, it really is a Bad Smell. It obviously violates
LoD(which is not so obvious though). Formal definition of LoD goes
something like(for full and exact definition you should read the
original paper, "Assuring good style for object-oriented programs"
IEEE Software, pages 38--48, September 1989):

For an object O of class C and for any method m defined for O, each
receiver of a message within m must be one of the following objects:

 1. O itself
 2. any objects passed into m
 3. any objects O created
 4. any composite objects
 5. any objects referred to by a global variable

There are some variation versions of LoD, but all of them share the
idea of "Tell Don't Ask." The Pragmatic Programmers have rendered it
so nicely, and I think it's decent enough as today's LoD.
(http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/ppllc/papers/1998_05.html)


> 	Should you simulate the parts of the app object that are needed? 
> In that case, you have to update the tests when you use parts of the 
> app object you did not use before.  Should you use a real app 
> object?  Then you are not really doing _unit_ testing, and it would 
> make running detailed tests very difficult?  Is there another solution 
> that anyone knows about?

Unit Tests test the intention of units. We don't care about how the
unit process internally, as long as the unit does its work. Moreover,
if the unit tests depend upon the internals of the units, more often
than not, you have to change the unit tests, which could be hazardous,
when refactoring the code.

If the unit was to return a list of customers, you don't want worry
about how it produces the object, whether by walking through data or
by conneting to DB, whatever. And, remember that naming is one of the
most important practice for good codes, and it should reveal the
intention. Therefore, if the method was getCustomersList, we test if
it returns customers list(object), no more no less. By any chance, if
you have refactored the code into several responsibilities, such as
removeDeadCustomers, you test the code if it really removes dead
customers.

Sever the unit that you want to test, and test it as independently as
you can.

If you can't cut the dependency chain easily, you should consider
using mock objects first. (Actually, if you do TestDrivenDesign or
TestFirstProgramming, you wouldn't worry about those -- good
dependency management, and easy to mock up. Testability is given from
the very beginning.)

One of the most famous papers on mock objects was presented at
XPUniverse 2000
(http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~hoover/cmput401/XP-Notes/xp-conf/papersList.html)
, of which papers has been published as a book "XP Examined." -- worth
a read. Its original URL is, AFAIK,
http://www.sidewize.com/company/mockobjects.pdf

We have a nice Python mock objects module already. It's at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/files/PythonMock.zip

Since the code is short, I include it in this mail. (BTW, the code is
originally written by Dave Kirby, and I added one method hasParam,
which calls unittest modules asserts, so that I can use it with
unittest module easily)

With this module, you can do:

>>> import mock
>>> customers=mock.Mock({'getCustomerList':('Dave','Peter','Laura')})
>>> customers.getCustomerList()
>>> customers.someMethod(1,200,name='Charlie')
>>> print customers.getAllCalls()
[getCustomerList(), someMethod(1, 200, name='Charlie')]
>>> someMethodCall=customers.getNamedCalls('someMethod')
>>> print someMethodCall[0].getParam('name')
Charlie
>>> print someMethodCall[0].getParam(1)
200
>>> someMethodCall[0].hasParam(1,200,name='Charlie')

If the legacy code's unit to test uses a specific external module, and
you want to test the unit before refactoring to improve the dependency
relationships, you can simply substitute the external module with mock
objects.

Say, we have the following legacy code in customers.py:

import customerDB

class Customers:
    .... 
    def getCustomersList(self):
	     allCustomers=customerDB.getAll()
		 ....

We can test it as in the following test code:
import unittest, mock
import sys
from customers import Customers

class TestGetCustomersList:
    def testReturnAll(self):
		mockCustomerDB=mock.Mock({'getAll':('Charlie','Dave','None')})
		sys.modules['customerDB']=mockCustomerDB
		customers=Customers(...)
	    self.assertEqual(('Charlie','Dave'),customers.getCustomersList())

#
# (c) Dave Kirby 2001
# dkirby at bigfoot.com
#
'''
The Mock class emulates any other class for testing purposes.
All method calls are stored for later examination.
The class constructor takes a dictionary of method names and the
values
they return.  Methods that are not in the dictionary will return None.
'''
import unittest

class Mock:
    def __init__(self, returnValues={} ):
        self.mockCalledMethods = {}
        self.mockAllCalledMethods = []
        self.mockReturnValues = returnValues
        
    def __getattr__( self, name ):
        return MockCaller( name, self )
    
    def getAllCalls(self):
        '''return a list of MockCall objects,
        representing all the methods in the order they were called'''
        return self.mockAllCalledMethods

    def getNamedCalls(self, methodName ):
        '''return a list of MockCall objects,
        representing all the calls to the named method in the order
they were called'''
        return self.mockCalledMethods.get(methodName, [] )

class MockCall(unittest.TestCase):
    def __init__(self, name, params, kwparams ):
        self.name = name
        self.params = params
        self.kwparams = kwparams
    def getParam( self, n ):
        if type(n) == type(1):
            return self.params[n]
        elif type(n) == type(''):
            return self.kwparams[n]
        else:
            raise IndexError, 'illegal index type for getParam'
    def getName(self):
        return self.name
    def hasParam(self,*params,**kwparams):
        self.assertEqual(tuple(self.params),tuple(params))
        self.assertEqual(self.kwparams,kwparams)

    #pretty-print the method call
    def __str__(self):
        s = self.name + "("
        sep = ''
        for p in self.params:
            s = s + sep + repr(p)
            sep = ', '
        for k,v in self.kwparams.items():
            s = s + sep + k+ '='+repr(v)
            sep = ', '
        s = s + ')'
        return s
    def __repr__(self):
        return self.__str__()

class MockCaller:
    def __init__( self, name, mock):
        self.name = name
        self.mock = mock
    def __call__(self,  *params, **kwparams ):
        thisCall = MockCall( self.name, params, kwparams )
        calls = self.mock.mockCalledMethods.get(self.name, [] )
        if calls == []:
            self.mock.mockCalledMethods[self.name] = calls
        calls.append(thisCall)
        self.mock.mockAllCalledMethods.append(thisCall)
        return self.mock.mockReturnValues.get(self.name)


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 17 02:01:23 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:01:23 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-787BEA.22201916082001@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
        <9li8pj$1f6$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
        <eppstein-787BEA.22201916082001@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <15228.45875.68943.931194@beluga.mojam.com>

    David> I use something called "Python IDE" that came with the MacPython
    David> installation.  Is it one of the above, or something else?

That's Just van Rossum's IDE for MacPython.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From martin at strakt.com  Wed Aug  8 08:53:00 2001
From: martin at strakt.com (Martin Sjögren)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:53:00 +0200
Subject: Exception confusion
In-Reply-To: <j4d766wzhl.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.997265112.4094.python-list@python.org> <j4d766wzhl.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20010808145300.A13419@strakt.com>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 01:41:10PM +0200, Martin von Loewis wrote:
> Martin Sj?gren <martin at strakt.com> writes:

[snip]

> III. Raising an exception in the form klass,value is the same
>      as raising it as klass(value)

On the contrary, it isn't!

You're saying that 'raise Exception, var' is the same as 'Exception(var)',
but what about these two examples:

  raise Exception, 'foo'

This is most certainly equivalent to "Exception('foo')" in that this
holds:
  Exception('foo').args == ('foo',)

No worries there!

  raise Exception, ('foo', 'bar')

What happens now?  This is NOT equivalent to "Exception(('foo', 'bar'))"
since:
  Exception(('foo', 'bar')) == (('foo', 'bar'),)
whereas "raise Exception, ('foo', 'bar') yields the tuple ('foo', 'bar')
as exc.arg!

[snip more]

All I'm asking is WHY tuples are handled differently?  In my case I have
an exception that may be raised either with a tuple or a string. Right now
I have to do this:

except MyException, exc:
    if len(exc.args) == 0:
        arg = None
    elif len(exc.args) == 1:
        arg = exc.args[0]
    else:
        arg = exc.args

Why-oh-why do exceptions work like this? :(

Martin

-- 
Martin Sj?gren
  martin at strakt.com              ICQ : 41245059
  Phone: +46 (0)31 405242        Cell: +46 (0)739 169191
  GPG key: http://www.strakt.com/~martin/gpg.html



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Aug 14 10:02:26 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:02:26 +0200
Subject: SourceForge ate my attachments! - 1 attachment
References: <Xns90FCA43515C62beablebeable@30.146.28.98>
Message-ID: <j4k806vix9.fsf@porthos.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Mitchell Morris <mitchell.morris at cingular.com> writes:

> I attempted to submit this to SourceForge with an attachment mere moments 
> ago; the webpage now shows my submission is there but the attachment was 
> eaten. Can some kind soul either re-file the bug or cause this patch to be 
> attached to it?

It is really recommended to get an account on SF for submitting
patches. Also make sure to click the checkbox "Check to Upload &
Attach File:". I have now attached the file from your message.

Regards,
Martin


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 20:10:05 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:10:05 -0400
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com> <8R%g7.29820$1p1.2181194@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <TTgh7.112812$rV6.5816230@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"George Garnett" <g.r.garnett at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:8R%g7.29820$1p1.2181194 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Well, I 'did' ask for it (the criticisms), didn't I?
>
[ ... ]
>
> By the way, for all you python people out there, I did read 'thinking in
> java' by Eckel and about 1/4 of a book on jpython (ok, so I borrowed the
> book). I've read about 25 books on java an its related languages so far. I
> guess I was just turned off by its C language like low level programming
> syntax. I prefer java's low level syntax instead (again, not that I'm
biased
> in any way!).
>
>
Java is object-oriented COBOL.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sun Aug  5 14:48:36 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 14:48:36 -0400
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <oqsnf65omz.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Roman Suzi]

> To be good for AI, language must have logic programming support.

Hello, Roman.

"logic programming"?  Do you merely mean using some logical inference
engine, or more than that?  Or would a regexp matcher fit the bill?

> (I wonder if Guido thinks in this direction 'cause this requires adding
> new keywords ;-)

You say "requires"?  I'm curious about why new keywords would be needed.
Python would not be expressive enough as it stands?

> the solver engine comparable to Prolog is to be written.

Nobody did this yet?  I thought a lot of little logical inference engines
existed here and there, I did not paid much attention to these, recently.
Traditionally, LISP is considered good for AI, without having built-in
goal seekers.  I would not fear using Python for AI projects...

I worked in AI fields for some while, before doing Operation Research, later.
I was rather surprised to find out that AI and OR were sometimes addressing
similar problems deep down, yet formulated quite differently.  The OR
side was much more humble, and often reached better and faster results.
With a broad enough perspective, FORTRAN is a good AI language! :-)

P.S. - The second Prolog interpreter was written in FORTRAN.  Maybe the
first was written in Algol-60.  Or, maybe, am I thinking about Syst?mes-Q?
This is all old.  In any case, both were designed by the same guy: and if
the later Prolog was much speedier than Syst?mes-Q, it lacked their elegance.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From graz at mindless.com  Thu Aug 23 05:55:49 2001
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:55:49 GMT
Subject: Binding to specific IP addresses
Message-ID: <Fq4h7.15256$5_3.821076@news1.cableinet.net>

[Having just written this post I've realised that to summarise, I might
just be asking "how do I avoid binding a socket to all interfaces?".
Maybe.]

I've got a problem with an application that uses a subclass of 
SocketServer.TCPServer. It doesn't seem to behave itself when binding 
sockets to IP addresses.

Here is a snippet of code:

  print "binding to %s:%d" % (self.server_ip, self.server_port)
  self.server = MyTCPServer((self.server_ip, self.server_port), MyHandler)

The self.server_ip is set to "192.168.5.1", rather than the empty string,
which I understand to mean that the server will only listen for inbound
requests on that IP address, not on my dial up PPP connection.

MyTCPServer (being a subclass of SocketServer.TCPServer) calls
self.server_bind() from it's __init__() method. After the code above has
been run I get a traceback:

ratchet% ./landiallerd.py 
binding to 192.168.5.1:6543
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./landiallerd.py", line 176, in ?
    app.run()
  File "./landiallerd.py", line 100, in run
    self.server = MyTCPServer((self.server_ip, self.server_port), MyHandler)
  File "./landiallerd.py", line 42, in __init__
    RequestHandlerClass)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/SocketServer.py", line 322, in __init__
    self.server_bind()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/SocketServer.py", line 333, in server_bind
    self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
socket.error: (98, 'Address already in use')

The lsof program tells me that the process that is using the address is
my dial up software, pppd. I find this very surprising as the 192.168.5.1
address is the address of my ethernet card and has nothing to do with my
dial up connection.

Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Is there something that I
ought to be doing to avoid listening on other interfaces?

Thanks.

--
Graham

P.S. I've been through the self.allow_reuse_address = 1 thing already, so
that shouldn't be the problem.


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 11:28:10 2001
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:28:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: zero padded string
References: <mailman.998578654.6960.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m37ea$4on$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>

In article <mailman.998578654.6960.python-list at python.org>, hnowak at cuci.nl 
(Hans Nowak) wrote:

> Do you mean something like this?
> 
> >>> '%09d' % 42
> '000000042'

There's also string.zfill(42,9) or string.zfill("42",9)


                  Graham


From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 17 06:15:00 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 10:15:00 GMT
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91007CE69E312PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green) said :

> If you develop or sell or otherwise know of a Python IDE that is not
> listed, please feel free to chime in. If I have listed your IDE, but
> missed out an amazing feature, please mail me ('avgreen' at 'avaya'
> dot 'com'), and I'll summarise to the list.

Doesn't BOA count as an IDE ?...

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From fdrake at acm.org  Wed Aug  1 13:23:20 2001
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Wed,  1 Aug 2001 13:23:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20010801172320.BE5A72879B@cj42289-a.reston1.va.home.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Incremental updates, including some useful improvements in the docs for
the re module.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:50:29 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:50:29 +0200
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
References: <mailman.996817505.6289.python-list@python.org> <ssya7.78137$Cy.11439637@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <9kmi2v01bma@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote in message
news:ssya7.78137$Cy.11439637 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
    ...
> Although I do think it would be easier to read if the order of the test
and
> the generator was reversed:
>
> for f in Count(20, Test(isGif,  Files('.'))): print f

Agreed, but please don't spell it 'Count' -- 'take(20, whatever)' appears
to me the 'obviously right way' to express "take the first 20 items of
whatever" (Haskell...), while 'count' (in whatever case) suggests to me
a function that counts things (and returns the number it has counted)...


Alex





From senux at senux.com.NOSPAM  Mon Aug 27 03:13:50 2001
From: senux at senux.com.NOSPAM (Brian Lee)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:13:50 GMT
Subject: Striding slice?
References: <3b8951c6.530504965@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B89F39B.4050103@senux.com.NOSPAM>

Bengt Richter wrote:
>  >>> a='0123456789'
>  >>> a[0:5]
>  '01234'
>  >>> a[0:5:2]
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  TypeError: sequence index must be integer
>  >>>
> 
> How about (faked example):
>  >>> a[0:5:2]
>  '024'

>>> a = '0123456789'
>>> a[0:5]
'01234'
>>> a[0:5][:2]
'01'



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 12:56:47 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:56:47 -0700
Subject: Python Library Question
References: <3B80B181.1E8D44A4@us.ibm.com> <3B840645.6E2E3375@ccvcorp.com> <2001714.78ljVUCQOu@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B8535CF.C88D575C@ccvcorp.com>

Markus Schaber wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> schrub:
>
> >>>> import math
> >>>> x = 2
> >>>> y = math.exp(2)
> >>>> y
> > 7.3890560989306504
>
> Another way would be:
>
> >>> from math import exp
> >>> exp(2)
> 7.38905609893
> >>>
>
> As you know, there's always _one_ obvious way to do it, but this only
> way may have just lots of lanes :-)

True, though I think the phrase was "at least one, and preferably only one",
but that's splitting hairs.  :)

Personally, I greatly prefer the original, explicit form--it's much easier
to read and keep track of, especially when trying to read a longish script
written by someone else (and as a side benefit, is more amenable to reload()
if that is ever necessary).  So I would try to encourage people, especially
newbies, to use that form rather than "from x import y", and strongly
discourage "from x import *" of course.  :)  Of course this is personal
opinion, and there are specific cases where these guidelines do not apply,
but then, there's an exception to every rule...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 08:56:09 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:56:09 -0500
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org>
        <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
        <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org>
        <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
        <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list@python.org>
        <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <15234.23145.925685.230202@beluga.mojam.com>

    Erno> time.clock() already measures cpu time on one platform (badly, on
    Erno> unix) and wall clock time on another (windows), no?

The limitations of Unix's CPU time granularity and the single-task nature of
Windows doesn't mean the semantics of time.clock should be broken to get
higher resolution.  Besides, what about NT?  Doesn't it distinguish between
tasks?

    Erno> okay, not strictly wall clock time but cpu clock cycles.  but
    Erno> still something that doesn't stop running when you block or
    Erno> something else runs.

I'm not sure I understand this.  I assume you're just telling me that the
underlying Windows CPU timer functions are broken.

Skip




From lele at seldati.it  Sat Aug  4 03:59:53 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 04 Aug 2001 09:59:53 +0200
Subject: mod-python or pypython
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0108011335040.25694-100000@research2.asu.edu> <9k9sd6$ms4$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9kbpo80rs@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m3lml0qmpy.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:57:11 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> said:

    AM> If one wanted to experiment with the coming Apache 2.0, do any
    AM> or all of the Python-enabling modules support that...?

Yes, the latest version of PyApache, 4.25, has a preliminary support
for Apache2. It is available at http://sf.net/projects/pyapache. 

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Hold on, hold on - They put you in a box so you
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| can't get heard - Let your spirit stay unbroken, 
email: lele at seldati.it	| may you not be deterred - P.Gabriel "Wallflower"




From xistan at yahoo.se  Wed Aug 29 15:53:21 2001
From: xistan at yahoo.se (Christian Lundh)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:53:21 -0700
Subject: Troublesome PIL Installation
References: <b3f07d21.0108290043.67d63770@posting.google.com> <1rbskzt097.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <b3f07d21.0108291153.6fe3e0fa@posting.google.com>

Thanks for your help John,

Unfortunately this wasn't the cause. The error related to an
uncomplete Python installation, which actually left the
lib/python2.1/config directory empty, and therefor PIL couldn't find
it's configuration files.

However, with that problem resolved, another problem appeared. But
that is not related to Python/PIL, but more an issue with HP-UX. It
seems as if the implementation of stdio.h and unistd.h conflicts and
some functions is inconsistantly declared. I have seen a lot of
articles on this issue, but no one I have read so far actually have a
solution for the problem.

But I guess we can close the Makefile.pre.in matter for now.

Thanks again for your help

/Christian Lundh


John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<1rbskzt097.fsf at video.bsd.uchicago.edu>...

> Just a guess, but when I unpacked Imaging yesterday and went through
> the install, I noticed that it unpacked in Imaging-1.1.2 (version
> number included) and the default line in Modules/Setup (
> -IExtensions/Imaging/libImaging   ) has no version numbers.  I made a
> symlink:
> 
>  > cd Extensions
>  > ln -s Imaging-1.1.2 Imaging
> 
> but you could also edit Modules/Setup to point to your Imaging
> distribution.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> John Hunter


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 21 21:08:57 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:08:57 -0400
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B82FB32.258CB937 at theworld.com...
> Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?  I
> assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is some
> sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute Python?
>
> I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java, because of
> the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could be
> used directly.
>
The ActivePython implementation, or standard Windows Python with the
win32all extensions, allow you to use Python as an ActiveScripting language.
However, you will need to be able to guarantee that all your clients have
Python installed: is this something under your control?

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Fri Aug 31 12:25:36 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:25:36 -0700
Subject: Who can send me a Apache for windows2000??Thanks
Message-ID: <9mmp2o$fjb$1@mail.cn99.com>

Who can send me a Apache for windows2000??Thanks




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 18:51:40 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
In-Reply-To: <gv4oot0rbcdbc2e3kj16sehubns0utngv6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281844001.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> Now, here's the kicker:
> If I change the fcntl.flock calls in the posixLock.py file to fcntl.lockf
> class, then I do get errors when I try the same interactive session.
> Namely:
>
> [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> from LockFile import LockFile
> >>> obj = LockFile('lock.txt')
> >>> obj.flock('LOCK_SH')
> >>> obj.flock('LOCK_UN')
> >>> obj.flock('LOCK_EX')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "posixLock.py", line 44, in flock
>     self.getWriteLock()
>   File "posixLock.py", line 28, in getWriteLock
>     fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
> IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >>> obj2 = LockFile('datafile.txt')
> >>> obj2.flock('LOCK_EX')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "posixLock.py", line 44, in flock
>     self.getWriteLock()
>   File "posixLock.py", line 28, in getWriteLock
>     fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
> IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
> >>>

>From the fcntl(2) man page:

"
       F_SETLK
              The lock is set (when l_type is F_RDLCK or F_WRLCK)
              or cleared (when it is F_UNLCK).  If  the  lock  is
              held by someone else, this call returns -1 and sets
              errno to EACCES or EAGAIN.
"

>From <bits/fcntl.h>:
---
#define F_RDLCK         0       /* Read lock.  */
#define F_WRLCK         1       /* Write lock.  */
#define F_UNLCK         2       /* Remove lock.  */
---

Those are the values you want to use. It looks like Python may have this one
wrong.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 20:13:43 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:13:43 -0700
Subject: Iterating throught 2 lists at the same time
References: <9m3rmg$8u55$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de> <9m3t2l$3dj0$2@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>
Message-ID: <3B859C37.B850D680@ccvcorp.com>

Lee Harr wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:16:17 -0400, Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu>:
> > Hi,
> >   I have the following construct:
> >
> >>>> a = ['a','b','c']
> >>>> b = ['x','y','z']
> >>>> for i,j in a,b:
> > ...     print i,j
> > ...
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> >
> >
>
> how about:
>
> for c in zip(a,b):
>    print c

Another possibility:

for i in range(len(a)):
    print a[i], b[i]

though this requires that care be taken if the lists are of different lengths... so
probably the zip() method is better.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From kosh at aesaeion.com  Wed Aug 22 20:35:16 2001
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:03:16 +0028
Subject: Python Books
References: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <4s92m9.n9p.ln@192.168.0.1>

Relfx wrote:

> I was wandering if anyone here read the few books that are out there for
> python. Lately the only set of books i have seen that give alot of info
> are the O'Reilly editions such Learning and Programming with python.
> 
>     Are these books the best to have considering I'm still moving up the
> ladder of programming? Also are there going to more publications to
> support python programming?

Another book to consider getting is the python essential reference. I find 
it to be a great book when programming since it has the information in a 
rather concise format. Learning books are designed for learning and don't 
tend to make very good reference manuals.

Two other books that are not python books that I consider indispensible are
Refactoring and Design Patterns. These books cover some core issues of OO 
work and refactoring techniques work very nicely with python. If applied 
properly they can help you save a lot of time by helping you improve the 
design of your program as you go. I know it seems strange but if you 
constantly do the work to keep your design clean you can add new features 
faster then if you keep trying to hack features in.


From cbarber at curl.com  Mon Aug 13 11:31:45 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 11:31:45 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pson154nfha.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:

> Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in 
> message news:<psoy9os5a88.fsf at jekyll.curl.com>...
>> But why can't Python be fast enough without resorting to extensions?
>> Forcing users to learn C in order to make their Python code fast detracts
>> from Python's advantage as a simple, easy-to-use language.
> 
> Of course, there's another alternative - with Python's development time
> advantages, they'll have more time to come up with better algorithms, so
> they may not need the extension.

Sure.  In many cases that will be true, but I thought we were talking about
the other cases here.

>> personally don't think that type declarations would add much complexity,
>> but I guess I can see how someone new to them might be confused.
> 
> You must have missed a post or two.  If they're required, they either aren't
> adequate, or they are complex, or both (C).

Even if required, I don't think that type declarations add that much
complexity.  They would definitely not have any affect on the standard
complexity metrics.  To me complexity has to do with the number of
interconnections in your program and adding type information does
not change that, and could in fact lower it by preventing certain
relationships.

It would make the language as a whole larger, and therefore more difficult to
assimilate for programmers, but that is not quite the same thing.

> > Of course, that same person would be lost once they had to learn C.
> 
> And maybe they'll never have reason to learn C.  I suspect that a fair
> number of SQL programmers don't.  I'm sure that many Excel programmers
> don't.  Yet, both are able to write programs.  Why is it reasonable to
> assume that a Python programmer will need to know C?

I am not doing so.  I am not at all saying that Python does not have good
enough performance to keep many developers happy.  I am asking about what can
be done about the wall that developers will hit when they *can't* get
sufficient performance: either they will have to resort to C extensions or
switch to another language; in either case they will have to learn a different
language.
 
- Christopher


From strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu  Tue Aug 28 17:25:16 2001
From: strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 21:25:16 GMT
Subject: equiv from python
Message-ID: <9mh27s$dmi$1@news.service.uci.edu>

Does c++ have an equivalent to this from python:

>>> import string
>>> s='ab:cd:efg:ghi:'
>>> print string.splitfields(s,':')
['ab', 'cd', 'efg', 'ghi', '']

IE, can the standard c++ library take a string, split it up on a
particular separator character, and return the corresponding list of
strings?

I know I can write something to do this, but I'd rather learn how to
use the STL or similar, if applicable.

-- 
Dan Stromberg                                               UCI/NACS/DCS


From m at moshez.org  Sun Aug 12 15:59:51 2001
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:59:51 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
In-Reply-To: <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010812195951.22E90392B@darjeeling>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> The real wart I feel is that the module a has two names, one when run as
> a script and the other when imported. 
> 
> I suppose there is some overriding implementation issue, but it seems to
> me that in the file a.py
> 
> __file__ and __name__ ought always to be defined and given the
> appropriate 'right' values.

What would you want to do if the script is not named "a.py" but "a"?
__name__ is supposed to be a valid entry into sys.modules.
-- 
The Official Moshe Zadka FAQ: http://moshez.geek
The Official Moshe Zadka FAQ For Dummies: http://moshez.org
Read the FAQ



From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 22:30:22 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:30:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [OT] Grok (was: Re: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252
 and type/class unification)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302219360.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302230060.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Greg Ewing wrote:
>
> > Russell Turpin wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, I think I'm grokking it. In future Python, every derived
> > > type will descend from some ur-type,
> >
> > Hey, what a cool word! I suggest we adopt it as
> > an official Python technical term.
>
> Too late, it's already fallen into borderline colloquial.
>
>   http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/grok.html

Or did you mean "ur-type"?

  http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/PR-xmlschema-1-20010316/#key-urType

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 19:44:13 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:44:13 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9l0sis0k8m@enews2.newsguy.com> <3187511.KiObB369e8@lunix.schabi.de> <9l1ehe01dbs@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1807761.BJDM9G5Yz8@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schrub:

>> And every function and attribute access means one pointer
>> indirection, as the offsets of the members in the array are fixed -
>> the types are statically known.
> 
> This is not sufficient -- the type must not just be statically known
> (either declared or inferred), but *non-extensible* (not 'expando' in
> Javascript terms, nonextensible in COM MIDL terms, not a Python
> object in Python terms) or else dynamic lookup (which it may be
> possible to optimize away via dispatch-caching, with some kind
> of checking of course -- just as in the general case) is still needed.
>
> A language might define rules whereby objects are "somewhat
> extensible" but never in such a way as to require dynamic lookup,
> but I suspect that would be pretty stilted, a typical case of a rule
> made for the sole purpose of easing implementers' lives shows
> through all the way up to language level and makes miserable
> the lives of language _users_ -- typical of languages not used by
> people who implement them, I suspect:-) -- in practice, we may
> as well say that the ability to use vtables implies not just type-
> knowledge (static or inferred) but also non-extensibility (either
> imposed by the language or -- in very special cases, when ALL
> relevant code can be seen -- again compiler-inferred).

When organizing a statically typed object system as I described above, 
the following things are theoretically possible at run-time:

One can exchange methods (this implies that the method-lookup-tables 
are not bound to the class descriptor, but to the object itsself)

One also can implement additional interfaces (means they can get 
additional members). This can be a bit tricky when new member-variables 
are added, as it may be needed to enlarge the object and therefore 
relocate it, means all references to the object need to be corrected. 
Aliases, Backchains and other solutions for this problem exist.

This way, it also is possible to map objects to interfaces (means, that 
methods with the same signature, but different names can be mapped to 
the same code). Imagine, you have an Bag interface. You can throw() 
objects in, and every grab() returns one object, removing it from the 
bag. Now you don't have a bag implementation, but you have a stack 
defining push() and pop(), or a fifo defining put() and get() methods. 
As the bag doesn't define any sematics on which object is returned 
first, both implementations can be mapped to bag interface. (In Python, 
you could easily do this with astack.throw = astack.push; astack.grab = 
astack.pop() and using astack as a bag from now on.)

When including the compiler into the run-time library, you can even 
create code objects out of strings inside a running program, and this 
way can create new types and implementations.

Of course, expressions, code-blocks methods and members can itsself be 
"first-class objects" with a little compiler intelligence. 

Add an understandable template-like mechanism and generic containers 
etc. in the standard library, and you can easily create a "bag of int" 
instead having to cast at every grab() from the generic bag.

This way, there is not much left you can't do without real dynamic 
lookup, and this can be done explicitly using some sort of reflection 
API.

But unfortunately, I don't know of any main-stream language that 
implements all this way.

The gain are two things: You get speed (faster lookups and possible 
optimizations), and you can concentrate type-caused run-time errors to 
specific places (the explicit casts), or even avoid them completely. 
The Timor experimental language has a nice select-case like construct 
for this situation - you can type something like (I don't remember the 
exact syntax, but it was java-like):

Typecase container {
        as stack: container.push(thing); break;
        as fifo: container.put(thing); break;
        as bag: container.throw(thing); break;
        default: //here, you can do your error-handling
}

The loss is that you have to worry about declaring everything that's 
obvious for you as a programmer. That's the reason I like python - but 
that's also the reason I am somehow afraid of it: you never really know 
what you get when working at larger projects, as documented behaviour 
is not enforced in any way.

And another loss is that some things are tricky decisions in language 
design: Can a bag of int be casted to a bag of objects? Or the other 
way round?

>> And with caching, you get in trouble when multi-threading:
>> Imagine a method that signals another thread, and this thread
>> replaces the method. But your own thread has cached the old method...
> 
> Clearly such "method modifications" must change the hashed type
> signature -- remember I've stipulated a signature check before
> the cached method is *used*.  I'd find it fun to see how a
> "statically-typed" language would cope with a method changing
> (and "in another thread" to boot?!-) 'under its nose'...?-)

Well - of course the Method currently being executed is finished (as 
the PC points into the code object), but in the lookup table, the 
pointer would be exchanged.

Of course, this (just as caching) makes code optimizing difficult, as 
the compiler is not allowed to store the method's address between 
consecutive calls (e. G. inside a loop).

>> But this isn't the main slowdown - it is the dynamic lookup for every
>> access. But when we change this, we wouldn't have python any more.
> 
> Except for some caching and possible optimization-inferences, of
> course.  For example:
> 
>     for i in xrange(1000000000):
>         a.pleep(i)
> 
> unless an a.pleep code changes the resolution of a.pleep (and I
> don't think it would seriously violate Pythonic spirit to say that
> has undefined consequences, just like today ensue from the far
> more natural temptation of modifying a sequence one is looping
> on:-), constant-expression hoisting could optimize this to:
> 
>     _temp_boundmethod = a.pleep
>     for i in xrange(1000000000):
>         _temp_boundmethod(i)

Well - I think especially in a highly dynamic language like python, I 
would _not_ like to see this optimization done by the compiler. When I 
implement a.pleep in a way that it can exchange a.pleep with another 
function, then I am not prepared to handle a further call with my old 
code.

Of course, when the programmer explicitly writes his code the second 
way, then he has to know what he does. By the way - using an apply() of 
a.pleep to the xrange may be the better optimization this way.
 
> Of course, THIS can be hand-optimized without too much
> trouble, too -- but consider:
> 
>     for i in xrange(1000000000):
>         a[i].pleep(i)
>
> Now, the Python coder is disarmed, even should he or she
> know that all the a[i]'s are homogeneous in type (well, a
> map of the unbound method on a might work, if the unbound
> method can be gotten at -- maybe type/class unification
> will eventually allow that for methods that don't belong to
> a class... here's hoping!), while dispatch caching would help
> a lot (if the a[i]'s belong to any of 3 or 4 types, in some
> disordered sequence, then extended dispatch caching with
> a cache of the last few method dispatches may be the
> only practicable technique... I'd hate to hand-code THAT
> in an application in any language!-).

Imagine that a[] is an array typed to a specific interface. Then use 
the "extended pointer" technique I described in my former message. So 
every entry in a[] internally contains a pointer to the data of a[], 
and a second pointer to the corresponding interface table. 

This way, the lookup for the method can be done just quickly.

> > > I do.  Nothing will remove the need for extensions, although 
their use
> > > may become less frequent.
> > Fully agree. The only way to get around this is to have _very good_
> > optimizing compilers, and to include every needed machine-specific
> > detail as a language feature.
> Unfeasible, since machines keep adding previously unforeseen
> 'details':-).

Not all those details are 'needed', and even programming languages tend 
to add previously unforeseen 'details' from time to time :-)

>> If you don't include assembly into the language, you always will have
>> to use extensions that don't follow the language's rules.
> And if you do, you'll never be cross-platform.  I know which
> 'evil' I'd rather suffer... multi-language programming (why
> do so many people hate it so?!) or having a supposedly high
> level language become 100% tied to a specific model and
> release of CPU...!

Well - you don't get around machine-specific libraries / modules (which 
might, of course, be dynamically selected on load), you only get around 
writing some of those using another language. But this way, you would 
get a language such insane that it would nevertheless cause me to use 
another language. :-)

I think the most important thing is a seemless integration of the 
programming lanugages. C and derivates can be integrated with almost 
everything, at the cost of lots of work for the programmer (in Python 
at least at the C programmers side). Jython, Java, Pizza etc. are much 
better integrated, because they use the same run-time structures and 
clever compilers and libraries which hide the differences.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  8 20:17:50 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:17:50 -0400
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
References: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>
Message-ID: <3B71D6AE.1A73256A@engcorp.com>

Joonas Paalasmaa wrote:
> 
> How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
> I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
> examples

Not that I'm actually recommending this, in your case, as the
other posts have the good answers :-), but another option 
is to use Python simply to generate XSL-FO output, then use
an external package to transform that into PDF.  The xml.apache.org
project has FOP, and there is at least one commercial package,
(for Win32 only I believe) called RenderX, which can do the
job.

(Flames from anti-XML fanatics will be repelled by asbestos 
filters in my newsreader. :-)

Something I'd like to have the time to work on: a Python-based 
XSL-FO to PDF converter.  Has anyone started SourceForge project
#9982111 for this while I wasn't looking?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From martijn_500 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 27 17:21:59 2001
From: martijn_500 at hotmail.com (Martijn)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:21:59 +0200
Subject: TypeError
Message-ID: <3B8AB9F7.4020707@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I`ve got this error every time I want to use my classes and I can`t 
figure out what`s wrong. My code is ok and I`ve used some examples from 
a book to check it but I get the same error message.This is what happends:

 >>> import MyClassFile
 >>> m = MyClassFunction()
Traceback (innermost last)
		File "<stdin>"
TypeError: Call of nonfunction (type module)

I also tried:

 >>> import MyClassFile
 >>> m = MyClassFile.MyClassFunction()

And finaly :

 >>> from MyClassfile import *
 >>> m = MyClassFunction()

Both give me the same errors. What am i doing wrong ?!? I am using Linux 
btw.


Thanx in advance,


Martijn



From brianfr at speakeasy.org  Wed Aug  8 18:09:46 2001
From: brianfr at speakeasy.org (Brian Fritz)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 15:09:46 -0700
Subject: Q: linking Python 1.5.2 on Solaris 2.6 w/ pthreads
Message-ID: <6e58f45c.0108081409.2c28b10c@posting.google.com>

Sorry to be dredging up an old version of Python, but it's what is
in production and has to be lived with.

I'm trying to build a local copy of Python that uses Pthreads on my
local SparcStation using the tarball from SunFreeware. The local 
gcc is version 2.8.1.

I've read through the README file and have run ./configure with the
'--with-thread' option. Then, the README has a couple of tables of
compiler switches and linker libraries and flags. It only says that
manual intervention is necessary, but doesn't clearly (at least to
me) say where these flags should be manually added.

I did some historical searches going back two years on Deja
using the key words "solaris" and "lpthread" hoping to find some
insight. I found a couple of articles discussing newer versions of
Python. What I gleaned was that maybe the manual changes needed to
be made to the Pyhon/Makefile.

I changed the Python/Makefile like this, adding the -D_REENTRANT
switch and changing lthread to lpthread:

> DEFS=           -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -D_REENTRANT
> LIBOBJS=         thread.o thread.o
> LIBS=           -lsocket -lnsl -ldl  -lpthread

I then ran make in the base directory. No problem, saw various gcc
command lines scroll by with the -D_REENTRANT tag. The 'make test'
ran without problem, and I thought I was home free.

However, after I 'make install' I used ldd to check my linking and
I did not have lpthreads.

> blackriver Python> ldd /usr/local/bin/python
>         libsocket.so.1 =>        /lib/libsocket.so.1
>         libnsl.so.1 =>   /lib/libnsl.so.1
>         libdl.so.1 =>    /lib/libdl.so.1
>         libthread.so.1 =>        /lib/libthread.so.1
>         libm.so.1 =>     /lib/libm.so.1
>         libc.so.1 =>     /lib/libc.so.1
>         libmp.so.2 =>    /lib/libmp.so.2
>         /usr/platform/SUNW,Ultra-5_10/lib/libc_psr.so.1

Can someone enlighten me as to what I'm missing here?

TIA!

Brian


From darwin at con-digital.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 20:50:17 2001
From: darwin at con-digital.co.uk (Con-Digital)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:50:17 -0100
Subject: AD : Did you miss the footy on On Digital ???
Message-ID: <L_hh7.36769$in6.3994197@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>

    All Channel Auto Update Cards ( No Inputting of monthly codes) ?25
    Modified Originl Cards (The Full Monty) ?40
    
    Both are ECM Proof :-) and Include the New ITV Sport Channels
    






From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug 15 15:23:56 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:23:56 GMT
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <g%ze7.106365$EP6.27465103@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Rob Andrews" <rob at jam.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B7A87D8.6F75B13F at jam.rr.com...
>I'm trying to think of  *why* one might want to
> declare or modify a global from within a function.

Alex gave one example.  Another is a recursive function that need
initialization.

def recursive(n)
  res = []
  global __recurse # use name *unlikely* to conflict
  def __recurse(i, respend = res.append)
    respend(<expression involving i>
    if i: __recurse(i-1)
  __recurse(n)
  return res

Here, both the use of global and the default argument hack are
substitutes for the new nested scoping rule, which lets the above be
writen more naturally as

def recursive(n)
  res = []
  respend = res.append
  def inner_recurse(i)
    respend(<expression involving i>
    if i: inner_recurse(i-1)
  inner_recurse(n)
  return res

This is one use of global that will disappear as people upgrade.

Terry J. Reedy







From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Sun Aug 26 19:12:56 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:12:56 +1000
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <20010824105701.H930@naxos.starmedia.net>
References: <20010824091239.G930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241721360.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru> <20010824105701.H930@naxos.starmedia.net>
Message-ID: <01082709125611.28818@ike>

On Saturday 25 August 2001 00:57, Drew Csillag wrote:
> I'll fix that.  ZPT still is quite ugly though.

I would _strongly_ disagree with that statement. I've been working with ZPT 
since day one and I say it's the most beautiful templating system in 
existence today. Anything that involves magic HTML-ish tags or special <? ... 
?> markups looks ugly and confuses tools.


   Richard



From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Sat Aug  4 12:29:16 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:29:16 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom> <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B6C22DC.7060509@herts.ac.uk>


Grant Griffin wrote:

> In article <3B6AA8A1.4000907 at herts.ac.uk>, Mark says...
> ....
> 
>> I especially agree, makes me think a bit about how I use things too. Who 
>> knows before you know it I might actually write something I wasn't 
>> ashamed to show ;). Thats why I intend to carry on picking everyones 
>> brain on here.
> 
> 
> Don't hesitate.  But rember: you can pick your friends, and you can pick your
> friends' brains, but you can't pick your friends' nose.
> 
Well, never one to simply take someones word I have performed a small 
scale experiment to test your previous statement. I conclude that it 
needs a small modification. It isn't strictly true that you can't pick 
your friends nose, but it is surely true that you shouldn't. Unless of 
course you mean that after you have picked their nose they are probably 
no longer your friend, but I would argue that they were your friend at 
the time of picking ;).

There let noone say I contribute nothing to this newgroup (although feel 
free to say I contribute nothing of worth ;))

> I'm not sure if anyone has explained the philosophical basis of "why no ++". 
> It's rooted in Tim Peters' maxim:
> 
>    There should be on--and preferably only one--obvious way to do things.
> 

I guess this is one of the main ways in with the python philosophy 
diverges from that of the perl philosophy where obfusticated code is 
fascilitated to a far greater degree ;).


blobby




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 04:25:08 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:25:08 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997770921.12166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lana3018bc@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997770921.12166.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>
> >         TRACK_OBJECT       math.sin
> >         ...
> >         LOAD_FAST          math.sin
> >         ...
> >         UNTRACK_OBJECT     math.sin
>
> What about threads? What if math.sin changes while in cache?

Isn't that exactly what TRACK_OBJECT *means*?!  If the
tracked object changes, whatever thread perpetrates the
change, the cache will be updated.


Alex





From dante at oz.net  Fri Aug 10 20:43:07 2001
From: dante at oz.net (Michael Esveldt)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 00:43:07 GMT
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997468581.20816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l1v2r$ghv$0@216.39.162.233>

Just van Rossum]
> What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
>
>   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/
 
[Grant Edwards]
> Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit time.

[Tim Peters]
> If it were cumulative, how would you account for it going down some months?
> Aha!  Broken integer division <wink>.
> 
> There are actually 12 bars per year, each representing the number of
> postings in one month.

What happened in the middle of 1995?

Michael


From wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu  Wed Aug 15 22:16:04 2001
From: wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu (Wen Jiang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:16:04 -0500
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
Message-ID: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu>

I have a GUI to submit a background job and want the GUI to exit after
the job is submitted to leave the actually big job run for a few days to
compleletion. Could anyone give me a hint how to do this? right now the
GUI stays but blocked by the background job.
Thanks.

Wen


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 24 12:00:00 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:00:00 +0100
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <mailman.998606076.30996.python-list@python.org> <9m67hc09b0@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9m6nfh$dc$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>

Grant Griffin wrote:
>But in all honesty, how often do you really
>_need_ to do generic programming?  I'm guessing, only a very
>small fraction of the time--1%, maybe?

All the time.  I work with file-like objects, which are file
handles, or cStringIOs, or StringIOs, or wrappers around file
handles that allow pushing data back, or wrappers around compressed
file streams, or popen file handles, or socket connections, or ....

I also work with strings that can be "" or u"" strings.

And there's code that uses a character string just as well as
it does a (biological) Seq object.

>Dynamic typing always comes at a cost (overhead)

Yep.

> in order to give you a benefit
>which--in the vast majority of cases--you don't need and can't even use,
that
>is, generic programming.

But I do need it, and enjoy it.  I know how to do it in C++ but my
fingers (and brain) aches thinking about it.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From just at letterror.com  Sat Aug 11 12:56:45 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:56:45 +0200
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net> <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <100820011208059612%joe@strout.net> <kusnezb0f0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <110820010905296049%joe@strout.net>
Message-ID: <3B7563CD.D41BCC97@letterror.com>

Joe Strout wrote:

> In article <kusnezb0f0.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
> <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> 
> > || python no longer uses pcre, the pcre based regexp module
> > || was replaced by a new unicode-aware implementation called sre (written
> > || by Fredrik Lundh). sre is much faster too...
> >
> > | Wow, I didn't know that.  Where can I find out more about sre?
> >
> > afraid i don't know of any docs on the internals. i think
> > the regex compiler is written in python, so you may need
> > to embed python if you plan to use it in another software package.
> 
> OK, thanks again.  We can't do that in our case, so I guess we'll just
> fix PCRE -- it seems to be 90% there anyway.

How would PCRE ever be able to match groups of characters above code
point 127, that are represented as more than one byte in utf-8? Or is
that a limitation you decided to live with?

Just


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Sun Aug  5 19:09:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 00:09 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <L10b7.89873$Xr6.443235@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <memo.20010806000931.49515F@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <L10b7.89873$Xr6.443235 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>, 
nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson) wrote:

> Tim Rowe:
> 
> > But the sort of changes being
> > /discussed/ (but mercifully mainly not implemented) would be more 
> > like the
> > transition from BCPL to B to C, and would merit completely different
> > names.
> 
>    Are you saying that some changes are reasonable while keeping the 
> Python
> name but others are not? The problem here is different views on the 
> impact
> and benefits of various changes. IMO, the change from deterministic
> finalisation to indeterministic finalisation, which occurred first in 
> Jython
> and then when Python got garbage collection (was that in 2.0? the past 
> is
> all a blur now) was more significant than either case sensitivity or 
> int on
> int division.
> 
>    The world of software is changing quite rapidly with techniques that 
> were
> formerly resisted because of cost (such as garbage collection, machine
> independent code, and verifiable execution environments) now accepted
> because of improvements in implementation and in hardware speed. If 
> Python
> doesn't change then other languages which are new or which adapt will be
> more attractive. I don't want to see Python frozen into irrelevance.

Nor do I want to see it mutated into irrelevance. No language should be 
immortal, but a virile language will sire children. BCPL sired B which 
sired K&R C which sired ANSI C which sired C++ and Objective C. Pascal 
sired Modula which sired Modula 2 which sired Modula 3 and Ada. In twenty 
years time I want to be programming in Jabberwocky, a descendent of 
Python, and speaking of Guido in the way that I would now speak of Wirth 
and Kernigan.


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug  4 22:08:36 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:08:36 -0400
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing 
In-Reply-To: <E15T9Rz-0003ab-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEIMLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[zooko at zooko.com]
> Okay, I think what is happening is that `time.time()' uses
> `gettimeofday()' which reads the hardware clock.  This means that
> in theory it can return anything at all, ...

Yes it can, and precision has nothing to do with accuracy anyway (i.e., just
because a thing saves enough bits to report microseconds doesn't it mean it
updates that often, and esp. not across platforms), so why are you still
trying to use it?  That is, in:

> ...
> but for my purposes in Mojo Nation I needed a guaranteed monotonically
> increasing time.

what does wall-clock time have to do with whatever it is you're after?

> ...
> The application which needs monotonically increasing timestamps
> is the `DoQ'[4] (the "do queue") -- a simple event scheduler that
> we use in Mojo Nation.

Simulators of many kinds just increment an integer to get a
guaranteed-unique (within a run) and strictly increasing "timestamp".  Does
wall-clock time specifically have something to do with your problem?




From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Wed Aug  1 16:37:50 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:37:50 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>        <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at> <mailman.996694262.6913.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9mgq4u.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:30:29 -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>I just noticed this thread.  Perhaps it's already been suggested, but I
>think Python's parser could easily be modified to recognize "class" as the
>first parameter in a method function's argument list.  There has been talk
>in python-dev off-and-on about relaxing Python's keywords-can't-be-names
>rules.  This might be a good time to revisit it.

I like the idea of recognising 'class' as an indicator of a class method;
I don't like the idea of using 'class' as the enforced name for the first
parameter.

def fun(class self, whatever):
seems reasonable, but
def fun(class, whatever):
doesn't.

Oops, I just realised that using 'class' as a variable name can't possibly
work: the parser can't currently disambiguate

class = myClass

from a class declaration, since both start with the token "class".

>Skip

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From ahenshawatapowerdotcom  Thu Aug  2 23:20:10 2001
From: ahenshawatapowerdotcom (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:20:10 -0400
Subject: Map generation/plotting
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <tmhfjqlfe1f7e3@corp.supernews.com> <ulml2yr20.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <tmk6cr7es9b102@corp.supernews.com>

"David Bolen" <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message
news:ulml2yr20.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com...
> "Andrew Henshaw" <ahenshaw at apower dot com> writes:
>
> > May not fit with your OS of choice, but I've used Python to drive
Microsoft
> > MapPoint through a COM interface.  Pretty slick.
>
> Yeah, I was perusing that a bit last night - does it embed nicely
> within another application or will it always want to control it's own
> window?

Hmm...I haven't had to use it like that, so I can't really say.  Off hand,
I'd suspect the latter.




From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 10:49:23 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:49:23 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com> <slrn9n08ld.vkj.andrew-usenet@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <3b7141eb.1491038@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3B715173.8040107@herts.ac.uk>

David C. Ullrich wrote:


> It's been determined in many examples that if recursion really bothers
> you when you're writing Python it shouldn't. Or at least it's wrong
> to jump to the conclusion that there's anything wrong with it, it
> has often come out to be the best solution or close to it.
> 
> (There's not all that much recursion in the "obvious" 
> recursive approach, if we apply it to a list containing
> n lists there will be only n calls. As opposed to the 
> first way I wrote it: there's a big difference between
> 
> for x in alist[0]:
>   for t in CartesianProduct(alist[1:]):
> 
> and
> 
> tails = CartesianProduct(alist[1:]);
> for x in alost[0]:
>   for t in tails:
> 
> The first version entails hideously many
> recursive calls.)

just to confirm what you are saying there David. When you first posted 
an example of an 'obvious recursive' solution, I had just come up with a 
recursive solution of my own. Being a little worried about the number of 
recursive calls involved, I tested both, and for the same list (I forget 
the dimensions) while mine clocked up a delightful nine thousane odd 
function calls, your example only required 12. I guess recursion is only 
a problem when you think about it in an inefficient way.

blobby



From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Wed Aug  8 02:51:44 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 08:51:44 +0200
Subject: execfile environment??
References: <mailman.997196650.29307.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yv2r8un6o3j.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

"Konicki, Jason" <jkonicki at harris.com> writes:

> I am trying to call a module with the execfile function. Is there a way to
> specify the paths to search for the module I am calling? 
> For example:
> 
> def call_module(module_name):
> 	# addition checks required before executing
>                 print "Executing "+module_name
>                 execfile(module_name)
>         
> When I call this function, I want it to find "module_name", i.e testing.py,
> within the sys.path.

Recently I did that like

import imp
exec imp.find_module("synpatterns")[0]
del imp

which might be close enough to what you want to do.

  Harald Kirsch
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 13:02:27 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:02:27 -0500
Subject: os.execl()
In-Reply-To: <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
        <200108271401.f7RE1P67003979@smtp6.andrew.cmu.edu>
        <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <15242.32035.679661.798300@beluga.mojam.com>

    Brian> Yes, os.spawnv() is easier to use, but it's only available on
    Brian> Windows.  os.fork() is only available on Unix.  This restriction
    Brian> is noted in the 1.5.2 documentation (which I'm still using).

There are Python versions of os.spawn* that may help.  Looks like they
should back-port to 1.5.2 with no problem.  They are simple wrappers around
os.fork.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From daniels at mindspring.com  Thu Aug  9 23:23:51 2001
From: daniels at mindspring.com (Alan Daniels)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:23:51 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn9n34ea.1lk.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <iqk6ntk4lh69ve37272u3rck96bp809mgm@4ax.com>

On 8 Aug 2001 19:23:54 GMT, Humanity let out a collective sigh of
relief when quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) finally typed:

>>>> that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?
>>>  Scintilla.
>>   TextPad

Jeez, need I remind anybody? *Ed*. Ed is the standard text editor.
==============================
Alan Daniels
daniels at alandaniels dot com


From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Thu Aug 16 17:18:55 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:18:55 +0300
Subject: is this a bug?
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr> <Xns90FF65D2CC75Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B7C38BF.8BD22DC5@iit.demokritos.gr>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> 

> The bottom line is that you should rarely use the "is" operator except
> when testing if an object is None (there is only one None object in
> Python).
> 

Halo Brian,

So is it safe to do?
if type(a) is type(b): blah blah

If it is, doesn't this mean that the type builtin always returns the same (pre
allocated) object for each type?

I would like also to thank you as everybody else who posted a response to my
somewhat silly (newbie) question.

	.Bill

PS: Sorry if you get this post twice. I was fighting with netscape...


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 21 15:27:10 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:27:10 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lucme$ih3$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list at python.org>,
Jesse W <jessw at loop.com> wrote:
>
>	I have read about, and downloaded, some of the Python unit 
>testing frameworks available, but I have never yet been able to 
>actually use any one of them to implement actual _tests_. I wish to 
>use unit tests(at least, the kind of unit tests used in Extreme 
>Programming(I think))because one of the claims of aficionados of 
>this approach is that it helps them get over the problem of how to 
>make programs that can't be kept in mind as a whole. This amazing 
>feat is done, say the aficionados, by writing the unit tests out before 
>the code.  I have both great hope and significant doubts about this 
>method.

One other suggestion nobody else has mentioned: use doctest.py instead.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug 20 10:23:55 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:23:55 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500 (FIXED)
References: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net> <tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9lqlut$864$1@norfair.nerim.net> <kk5g7.149597$g_3.23208569@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9lr67c$f40$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Good idea, this introduces some security in this server.

"Maan Hamze" <MHAMZE at austin.rr.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
kk5g7.149597$g_3.23208569 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Gillou
> In my original reply I mentioned to use the key .gcp.  I meant to say to
use
> the key .cgp - as to keep cgi scripts separate from other py modules.
> I am glad it is working for you now.
> Maan
>
> "Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:9lqlut$864$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> > OK it's fixed...
> >
> > My cgi-bin virtual directory was located in the wwwroot (/) for
documents.
> > Now it's outside and it works...
> > Thanks evrybody and sorry for the disturbance.
> >
> >
> > --Gillou
> >
> > "Maan Hamze" <MHAMZE at austin.rr.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
> > tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> > > Gillou
> > > change the key to something like .gcp
> > > reboot, and see if it works.
> > > Try it with a very simple script:
> > > print 'Content-type: text/html'
> > > print 'testing python cgi'
> > >
> > > for the value, try:
> > > "C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"
> > > or
> > > "C:\Python21\python.exe -u %s %s"
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com  Sun Aug 12 13:01:35 2001
From: wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com (wim delvaux)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:01:35 GMT
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com> <Hdod7.27408$c8.8315711@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <9l5bvc0ei6@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B76B8C6.CC9EC88A@adaptiveplanet.com>

your suggestion was what I needed,   The stirng and int were merely
examples.  In fact the object
that would be passed as first argument would be a real object.  So only
your suggestion would work.

Question remains.  How can I get access to the PyString_Type variable
(buffer) declared in the extension module (if I remember)
for those abstract objects, if you do not know the name of the buffer
but only the name of the type.

Example.  Suppose you have extended with 2 types TypeA and TypeB (both
non-builtin of course)

How do you get access to the TypeA_Type and TypeB_Type type descriptors.

i.e. Is there a call like

    PyGetType( TypeA)

With which one could write

        PyObject theType = PyObject_Type(FirstArg);

         if( theType == Py_GetType( TypeA ) ) {
           /* now you know FirstArg is of typeA
         } ....

        Py_DECREF(theType);    /* when done with it */

Or perhaps

    if ( PyObject_IsOfType( FirstArg, TypeA) ) ) {

    }

Thanx again



Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
> news:Hdod7.27408$c8.8315711 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
>     ...
> > One approach would be the obvious:
> >
> > Mod_Function( PyObject *self, PyObject *args )  {
> >   char * String;
> >   long IVal;
> >   if (PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "s", &String )) {
> >     /* do something with String */
> >   } else if (PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "i", &IVal)) {
> >     /* do something with IVal */
>
> One caveat: I think you need to reset the error-situation here,
> as the first (failing) PyArg_ParseTuple has set the exception
> and I don't think this second one resets it (I could be wrong --
> no direct experience of this idiom, as I strive to avoid
> typechecks whenever I can...).
>
> Another issue is that "i" also accepts and silently truncates
> floats, which may or may not be the right thing to do (it's
> sure quite different from checking the type of the object
> for equality to integer-type:-).
>
> >   } else {
> >     return NULL;
>
> And here I think the error message would only mention
> needing a string argument, so you probably want to
> substitute for it one mentioning both string and int.
>
> >   }
> > }
>
> Alex



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Aug 24 03:12:05 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 03:12:05 -0400
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
References: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com> <ug0aiuqc6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <3B85E490.BD3FA223@eegsoftware.com> <ubsl6uenh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <u8zgaue2i.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

(following up on my own post)

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:

> Have you tried looking at the PC/WinMain.c file, which is how pythonw
> is built.  It has some code to specifically open handles 0, 1 and 2.
> So if your code runs properly under pythonw, perhaps adding some
> similar startup code to your embedding environment would permit the
> same behavior?

Whoops - my 1.5.2 source tree wasn't as pristine as I thought and I
was looking at a modified winmain.c with some old proposed changes to
make os.popen work in a console-less application.

That means the default pythonw.exe under 1.5.2 doesn't have any such
code, and you did say your application worked fine under pythonw,
right?  Since pythonw basically runs Py_Initialize and then runs your
script through PyRun_SimpleFile, I'd really expect it to be similar
when embedded.

So stepping back a moment - your original question was differences in
catching sys.stdout/sys.stderr when embedded but any direct use of
stdout/stderr in pythonrun wouldn't get rerouted by any redirection of
sys.stdout/sys.stderr anyway.  Just for the heck of it, if you try the
approach I suggested in the first response, do you still miss the
output?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 16:00:26 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:00:26 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
In-Reply-To: <3B757993.F6BB0492@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108112356440.12166-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Peter Hansen wrote:

>Roman Suzi wrote:
>>
>> Then it will be one quantum leap and:
>>
>> <myproblem:recordset>
>> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
>> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
>> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><d>0</d><e>0</e>
>> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><e>0</e>
>> <a>0</a><b>0</b><c>0<c><e>0</e>
>> </myproblem:recordset>
>>
>> or something similar.
>
>Of course, there's nothing that says every atomic
>piece of data has to be put into a separate element
>in XML.

Well, I really meant that some hairy file-format
is evolutionally transformed into XML...
(I was to lazy to make the file-format less trivial ;-)

>Since the above is to be manipulated by
>code, the following would be in many cases just as
>capable a format, and probably easier to manage:
>
><myproblem:recordset>
>  <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
>  <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
>  <record>0 0 0 0 0</record>
>  <record>0 0 0 0</record>
>  <record>0 0 0 0</record>
></myproblem:recordset>

Even here, better way is:

<record a="0" b="0" c="0" d="0" />

(Well, atomicity depends on how deep one need to process
data. For some purposes even:

<myproblem:recordset>
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0
</myproblem:recordset>

will be fine.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/




From mats at laplaza.org  Mon Aug 20 18:29:09 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:29:09 GMT
Subject: getting rid of data movement instructions
References: <mailman.998259150.17466.python-list@python.org> <9lqkp8019r@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b818eb2.201580257@news.laplaza.org>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:20:59 +0200, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

:"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
:news:mailman.998259150.17466.python-list at python.org...
:    ...
:> This reminds me of the definition of a supercomputer commonly heard in the
:> 80s:  a supercomputer is a box that turns your CPU-bound problem into an
:> I/O-bound problem.  IOW-- and take this to heart! --no matter what you
:> optimize, if you do a good job, one consequence is that "the bottleneck"
:> moves to something you weren't even thinking about.  Or, as Gordon Bell's
:> First Law of supercomputer design put it, Everything Counts.
:
:Hmmm, isn't the numeric expression of this called Amdahl's Law?

Yeah, but it's more fun to quote Gerry Weinberg: "If you fix problem
#1, #2 gets a promotion".

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From jschmitt at vmlabs.com  Fri Aug  3 20:00:00 2001
From: jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:00:00 -0700 
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
Message-ID: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: brueckd at tbye.com [mailto:brueckd at tbye.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:56 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Typing system vs. Java
> 
> 
> On 1 Aug 2001, Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> > | Right. My assertion is that this causes more problems 
> than it solves
> > | because you seldom know your "intent" in that much 
> detail, much less your
> > | future intent. Seems like ultra strict type checking 
> might work well in
> 
> > OK, another example, happy to be able to accommodate your request.
> > >From today's comp.lang.python, someone asks, how come my program
> > doesn't work?  His case seems a ways away from space 
> station control.
> >
> ...
> 
> > And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
> > He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
> > of figure it out himself.
> 
> [ snipped 10 lines of Python ]
> [ snipped 30 - 40 lines of type-checking OCaml ]
> 
> > Hope you find this useful.
> 
> Very! Thank you. Here's what it shows me:
> 
> - A Python newbie like the original poster is going to get a 
> heck of a lot
> further than an OCaml newbie trying to accomplish the same thing in a
> strict type-checking way (I wonder how many posts he would 
> have sent to
> c.l.ocaml?). A veteren Pythonista won't have too many chances 
> for causing
> that bug because the Python version will be so short and simple.

A Python newbie will probably get more done simply because it's easier to
learn Python than ML, yeah, probably true.

> 
> - The cost of finding the Python bug (type-related or not) is probably
> quite lower than the cost of finding a bug in the same OCaml code. If
> nothing there's 66 to 75% fewer lines of code to sift through 
> so you'll
> narrow the search a lot quicker (I realize you're new to 
> OCaml, but the
> poster is new to Python).

I'm following this conversation with great interest and I think I'm grokking
everything up to here.  

As for finding this bug, well, isn't the point of ML that *the compiler
finds the bug* way before it ever gets to a customer?  I guess that assumes
that you've expressed your types correctly.  If you had not expressed your
types correctly, that would be a bug related to the semantics of their
meaning (a 'logic error' as described in an earlier post).  That is, you
knew exactly what they types mean and expressed exactly that.

> 
> - If the function later needs to be modified to be more flexible with
> different types or even just a little extra functionality, 
> the Python one
> is gonna be a breeze. I'd feel confident about a quick change 
> followed by
> some quick testing. I'd feel much more nervous about 
> modifying the other
> one.

I'm not sure if you're being fair here.  I've only done a small amount of ML
(in school, some years ago) but your question is pretty hand-wavey and
contrived to make your point.  I much prefer coding in Python, but I
wouldn't make the claim you just made there.  How about becoming fluent in
ML and then doing a detailed analysis? :-)

> 
> - After a little experience using Python, the cost of finding that bug
> will drop dramatically (how long would it take you, Donn, to figure it
> out? 30 seconds maybe?) as will the likelihood of that bug 
> occurring, but
> the cost of creating the OCaml type-checking version will 
> remain more or
> less constant - you'll always have to write about that much code. So
> you'll fight your way through the learning curve only to find that by
> doing so what you learned just went down in value. ;-)

Obviously the barrier to entry for ML is quite a bit higher than Python,
(are we still talking about newbies?) but the compiler will find the bug for
you if it was written ML'ically (as opposed Pythonically?) unless I am much
mistaken.

[...]

I withhold judgement of whether strong, static typing will help or hurt
productivity.  I'm inclined to think that The Python Way might turn out to
be more productive for the majority of programmers and for lots of
programming problems.  I don't know how you would go about demonstrating
that, and I would certainly want to be very proficient in both systems
before I felt qualified to make an assertion either way.

I don't think C and C++ (and Java, I guess) are good examples of strong,
static typing and so not really useful if you want to have a discussion
about strong, static typing.

Here's a nice article you might like to read that talks more about this
whole subject.  Be warned, the article is from a guy who wants to find a way
to add some of this stuff (typing a la ML) to Perl.  It's not a
Python-centric article.

http://perl.plover.com/yak/typing/typing.html

John



From johnw at gnu.org  Thu Aug 16 18:15:27 2001
From: johnw at gnu.org (John Wiegley)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:15:27 -0700
Subject: Long data not being sent with smtplib.SMTP.sendmail?
Message-ID: <m38zgjy7ls.fsf@gnu.org>

I have a 100K e-mail message that I'm sending over smtplib.SMTP (using
MimeWriter to build the message).  Although I've confirmed that the
'msg' argument I'm passing to sendmail is correct, smptlib fails to
send the last 20 or so bytes.  I've look at SMTP.send, but has anybody
else had problems with this?

Thanks,
  John Wiegley <johnw at gnu.org>


From dturley at va.prestige.net  Tue Aug 14 15:07:46 2001
From: dturley at va.prestige.net (David Turley)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:07:46 GMT
Subject: t
Message-ID: <6Gee7.3474$PP1.28055045@news2.news.adelphia.net>

.


From achim.domma at syynx.de  Wed Aug  1 02:05:57 2001
From: achim.domma at syynx.de (Achim Domma)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:05:57 +0200
Subject: Large pages using Zope
References: <9k766t$dc0$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3B674802.C730D678@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9k8684$qoj$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B674802.C730D678 at engcorp.com...

> Are you sure you want to use Zope?  What tasks are you trying
> to accomplish for which you believe Zope is the best solution,
> and why?  (It sounds like you don't actually know anything
> about Zope, except that it is written in Python, but please
> correct me if I'm wrong.)

I thinks so. We develop some kind of specialiced search engine
which will be accessed through the web. Our core engine uses
C++/Corba and will run on multiple plattforms, so we need a
plattform independent solution to build applications. Most of this
applications will look very similar to each other, only design will
change and different modules will be enabled/disabled. The
template mechanism of dtml looks very good to me to accomplish
this problems.

> Zope has a fairly steep learning curve, and it may or may
> not be the best solution for you.  There _are_ simpler ways
> to go, but then again there are also advantages to using Zope.
> It all depends on what you really need.

I tried the tutorial and I had no problems with it. I think Zope
is a nice framework for letting our core developers producing
scripts for complicated workflows. And it should easy for
application developers to integrate this tools in webpages via
Zope. Of course it would be possible to do this with every
other scripting technology but seems that Zope would fitt our
needs very well.

> There are many, including a dozen listed on the page at
> http://www.zope.org/Resources/CaseStudies .  Have you
> visited zope.org yet?  That might be a good place to
> start if you "would like to use Zope"... :-)

Ok, that's what I'm looking for. I hadn't found this page when
I looked for it. But the customer list on www.zope.com is even
better.

thanks for your help
Achim




From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Fri Aug 31 18:09:15 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:09:15 -0700
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
Message-ID: <9mnd72$i8$1@mail.cn99.com>

class now:
    ....
    ....
    ....
n=now()
s='n'
print s


the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>

what means?????




From nbrewer at visi.com  Thu Aug 23 11:43:51 2001
From: nbrewer at visi.com (Chris Farley)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:43:51 GMT
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
Message-ID: <Xw9h7.10076$x84.2967046@ruti.visi.com>

I would like to develop an opensource cross-platform GUI application 
in PyQt. I would like to distribute a Windows version of the application
bundled with all the .DLLs needed to run the program, including the Qt
library. Is it legal to do this? Here's part of the license that is
giving me headaches.

  * You may copy and distribute the Software in unmodified form
  provided that the entire package, including - but not restricted
  to - copyright, trademark notices and disclaimers, as released
  by the initial developer of the Software, is distributed.

Does this mean I can't distribute just the .DLL, and that I need to
distribute the entire non-commercial version of Qt? Ack!

-- 
Christopher Farley
www.northernbrewer.com


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Aug  8 11:19:09 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 11:19:09 -0400
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3B7147BB.2000201@herts.ac.uk>
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk>
	<oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> <3B7147BB.2000201@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <oqlmkuo9zm.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> > It is often nice to do:
> >         import pprint
> >         pprint.pprint(d)

[Mark Robinson]

> I just had a quick play with that, and I can't see any difference between
> your example verbatum and simply print d.

Oh, then your `d' should be simple.  `pprint.pprint' would print long or
complex structures on multiple lines, all nicely indented.  Dictionaries
entries are shown sorted by key.  I find it so useful that I forever had:

    import pprint
    pp = pprint.pprint

in my `.pythonrc' filean I could use thinks like `pp(d)' interactively.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  1 15:02:53 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:02:53 -0500
Subject: Embedding problem, undefined symbols
In-Reply-To: <5b9e8160.0108010916.1d74d657@posting.google.com>
References: <5b9e8160.0108010916.1d74d657@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15208.21085.345746.40103@beluga.mojam.com>

    Rick>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
    Rick> ImportError: /usr/lib/python1.5/lib-dynload/mathmodule.so: undefined
    Rick> symbol: fabs

Rick,

Looks like mathmodule.so was not linked with -lm.  Your Modules/Setup file
probably has a line like

    math mathmodule.c # -lm # math library functions, e.g. sin()

You probably need to change it to

    math mathmodule.c -lm # math library functions, e.g. sin()

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Aug  7 21:16:25 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 01:16:25 GMT
Subject: COM Events in multithreaded app trouble.
References: <mailman.997215495.712.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B70935A.1080805@ActiveState.com>

rcspython at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have only 2 threads running in this test (the main and one COM 
> object wrapper) 

I am not sure exactly what the "COM object wrapper" thread is.  Is it a 
thread you created that loops?  If so, it too must be running a message 
loop.

> Am I suffering from a GCE (Gross conceptual error) or making a simple 
> mistake?
> 
> Any help would be welcome as I am quite stuck at the moment.

COM threading models are quite complex.  I have made my best attempt at 
describing them in O'Reilly's "Python Programming on Win32".

Mark.



From tefol at This.Is.Not.An.Address  Wed Aug 29 15:49:21 2001
From: tefol at This.Is.Not.An.Address (tefol)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:49:21 GMT
Subject: Lists into Strings..?
Message-ID: <910D39579tefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>

Hiya!

I am wondering of the best* way to make string equal to an entire list of 
strings.

>>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
>>> sNewString = lExistingList

just doesn't seem to do it.

I know that I can write the list out to a file, and then read the whole 
file in,   but that seems like so much overkill to me.

Thanks heaps!

tefol

*I let you define best anyway you like.  That seems to be the Python way.  
:-)

Cha!


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 01:28:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:28:12 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <9kg79r029r9@enews4.newsguy.com> <1n9omt89amtbf9i07bvdasreuk5qs56v48@4ax.com> <9kkefp017c8@enews4.newsguy.com> <877kwhiy1h.fsf@xeno.localhost>
Message-ID: <9kl9vh02hnp@enews4.newsguy.com>

"xauau" <xauau at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:877kwhiy1h.fsf at xeno.localhost...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > the Pythonic idiom is to expose 'properties' (client-visible attributes)
for
> > client use with Python syntax (obj.theattr for reading, maybe also
> > obj.theattr=newvalue if it's appropriate for the property to be
writable),
> > and, if accessor functions are needed, provide them behind the syntax
> > screen (with __getattr__/__setattr__ in 2.1 and before, with dedicated
> > per-attribute getters/setters in 2.2 and after).
>
> Yes, this is a seldom mentioned but very welcome addition to 2.2. It
> wasn't hard to implement properties by hand,

Full agreement (I should also mention that using Boost Python, BPL, has
long given the same ability -- BPL uses the metaclass hook to make full
Python classes from C++ classes, and as a side benefit it lets one write
specific getters/setters for any Python class extending a BPL one).

> but having a standard way
> will hopefully do away with getters and setters for good.

Wanna bet?-)  People are sometimes high-inertia systems:-).  Having
learned one good workable way to do something, they may not switch
to another better way when the latter becomes available.  People are
also (in many cases) excellent at rationalization -- finding reasons that
sound good for what they want to do anyway -- so we can confidently
look forwards to many flam^H^H^H^H constructive discussion
threads on this subject...!


> >  Object Pascal (at the heart of Delphi) has always worked like this
> > (as, for read-access only, has Eiffel;
>
> C# works the same way as Delphi in this respect.

Good point, I keep forgetting to mention the similarities of C# to Object
Pascal (no doubt many of them related to having the same architect:-).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 04:18:34 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:18:34 +0200
Subject: Unable to import dll extension that relies on a second dll
References: <9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ldb8801jhq@enews3.newsguy.com>

"John M. Camara" <camara at home.com> wrote in message
news:9eb7f931.0108141939.319a2e58 at posting.google.com...
> I have not been able to create a Python extension in Windows
> that requires a call to a function in another dll.  In the
> simplified example below a function called foo in extension.dll
> calls bar a function in supporting.dll.  I used SWIG to wrap the
> functions in extension.dll and compiled both dlls in Borland C++
> Builder 5.  When I try to import the extension I get an import
> error stating that the module could not be found.

Where do the extensions DLL's live?  Depending on your version
of Windows (95 and 98 go one way, NT another, 2000 yet
another, &c) that may be the root of things.  If they're all on
the PATH or system directories, then it should work on all
Windows versions, otherwise it gets hairy.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug  3 15:17:31 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:17:31 -0400
Subject: 2.2 features
In-Reply-To: <3B6AF2B5.A98EDD39@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFELDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Prescod]
> ...
> Yes "x in class y" would be a boolean expression elsewhere but that's
> just like the current exception syntax which looks like a tuple
> constructor but isn't really. Either we try to reuse syntax or we don't.

The current exception syntax *does* accept a tuple constructor:  the special
case you're "seeing" doesn't actually exist.  For example,

    try:
        # whatever
    except (OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError):
        pass

is exactly the same as:

    myexceptions = (OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError)
    try:
        # whatever
    except myexceptions:
        pass

except's first paramater can be an arbitrarily-deeply nested tuple, and it
doesn't matter how it's constructed; it's simply *common* to write a tuple
literal.  Combine it with some backward-compatibility hacks, and you can do
some, umm, "interesting" things with this:

>>> def stringin(s, stuple):
...     try:
...         raise s
...     except stuple:
...         return 1
...     else:
...         return 0
...
>>> stringin('b', ('a', ('c', 'b'), 'd'))
1
>>> stringin('b', ('a', ('c', 'e'), 'd'))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in stringin
b
>>>

indeed-that's-the-fastest-way-to-search-a-deeply-nested-tuple-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From charlie at begeistert.org  Fri Aug  3 10:05:23 2001
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:05:23 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org> <3B6AA06E.7060408@livinglogic.de> <3B6AA5F6.1050603@livinglogic.de>
Message-ID: <PM00038AA0A688BB8B@gormenghast.unknown.dom>

Olaf said,

Not bad! How about
  aClass.has_instance(anInstance)
and
  aBaseclass.has_subclass(aSubclass),
then?

This would resemble dictionary.has_key(...).

I've just read the whole thread to try and get to grips with it.
"isinstance" and "issubclass" are plain ugly and confusing to read and a
lot of the debate has centred around consistency with the rest of the
language. I suppose it's trying to square the circle which is so
difficult...
I understand the problem like this: Classes keep lists of their
sub-classes *and* of their instances and "in" is a keyword which checks
for membership in sequences.

class Programmer
	pass

class GoodProgrammer(Programmer)
	pass

class BadProgrammer(Programmer)

guido = GoodProgrammer()
charlie = BadProgrammer()

Is this the right way of thinking about it? If so we could then ask our
classes to list their instances and subclasses and apply membership
tests to them.

Programmer.instance()
>>> ['']
Programmer.subclasses()
>>> ['GoodProgrammer', 'BadProgrammer']
GoodProgrammer.instance()
>>>'Guido'
GoodProgrammer.subclass()
>>>['']
etc.

This would then let us test for membership in class instances or
subclasses.
Guido in Programmer.instance()
>>>0
Guido in GoodProgrammer.instance()
>>>1
Guido in Programmer.subclass()
>>>0
Charlie in BadProgrammer.instance()
>>>very much so

I think the syntax might not be correct but this would seem to me to be
a clean way of checking for membership without introduing new key words,
new attributes subclass and instance (or should that be __subclass__,
__instance___?) which are only handles for object counters and "in"
would be preserved as the shorthand for the contains method. Not so sure
how this would apply to the built-ins. Something like this?
>>>x = 4
>>>x in int.instance()
>>>1

What thinketh yee?

I still don't get generators btw. What does 'yield' do that 'return'
can't

Charlie


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 23:06:08 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:06:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: newbie.string.listless
In-Reply-To: <tp0j1dn37gve9d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108312304100.4535-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, FMH wrote:

> names = ["one,"who","two","three"]
>
> for i in names[:]:
>  if i in names[:]:
>   i = string.capitalize(i)
>   print i,
>
>
> One Who Two Three
> >>> i
> 'Three'

Use map() instead:

---
>>> import string
>>> names = ["one", "who", "two", "three"]
>>> newnames=map(string.capitalize, names)
>>> newnames
['One', 'Who', 'Two', 'Three']
>>>
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 10 12:29:45 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:29:45 GMT
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org> <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n833f.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <3B7384D0.12FB2B35 at letterror.com>, Just van Rossum wrote:

> What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
> 
>   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/

Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit
time.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I smell like a wet
                                  at               reducing clinic on Columbus
                               visi.com            Day!


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 19:45:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:45:53 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <7xd75tz1u2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lmuon11l56@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xd75tz1u2.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> Perl has a "restricted execution" scheme that's pretty messy.  I
> understand Python also has such a scheme, but I haven't studied it yet.

It's un-messy, though rather rough-cut at this point.  Best
coverage is AMK's at http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/rexec/rexec.html.


Alex





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Aug 15 13:25:39 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:25:39 -0700
Subject: Progress on missing features?
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <tnlc2pecai5bb4@news.supernews.com>

I'd definitely like to see the interfaces. Class methods I can
take a pass on; from a pragmatic viewpoint, I just put them
in the module, and it works fine.

Pep 245 is missing several things that I suspect are needed.

First, it doesn't say anything about the aliasing problem. It
assumes that the method name in the class is the same as
the method name in the interface. This doesn't work in general.
To extend his Fish Market example to a Grocery Market and
a Hardware Store, how do you handle the hasNuts() method?
In one case, it should report on peanuts and cashews, in the
other on hex nuts and similar stuff.
Use those two interfaces on a CountryGeneralStore object,
and you might not get what you're looking for.

Requiring them to be unique doesn't hack it - it won't handle
adding interfaces where you don't own either the interface or
the class (i.e. add someone else's interface to an existing class.)
Even if you have the freedom to design both of them together,
you're introducing bad naming habits and undesirable
coupling.

Second, how do I instantiate an object with a particular
interface? Calling the interface isn't sufficient - I need the
class name also. Likewise, calling the class is not only
insufficient because I need the interface I want, but it will
also break code because there is no way of telling whether
I want an interface or access to the entire class.

In the same vein, assuming I have an existing instance of a class,
how do I call it through an interface? Is there a dynamically
created proxy class? If so, can I add another interface to an
existing instance of the instantiating class?

In summary, I'd love to see the feature, but only if it works
nicely.

John Roth



"Dinu Gherman" <dinu at reportlab.com> wrote in message
news:3b794800.115888839 at news.t-online.de...
> Hi,
>
> given the recent burst of new features in Python I do wonder
> what happend to those that are missing from Python for a
> long while now? I'm listing here only these:
>
>   - interfaces
>   - class methods
>   - type indicators (opt.)
>
> Being aware of the class/type unification announced for
> before Python 3000, I'm not listing this one above.
>
> The first two could be considered quite important for ma-
> king the language more complete in terms of object orien-
> tation. (Better information hiding might be another topic,
> but it seems like this is broadly considered non-Pythonic
> in the Python community.)
>
> I'm just curious if there has been any progress on any of
> these as I'm not following all SIGs that might be dealing
> with them or not, but notice a peak of activites in other
> domains of language development.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dinu
>
>
> --
> Dinu C. Gherman
> dinu at reportlab dot com
> http://www.reportlab.com
> ................................................................
> "The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
> sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or
> not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well,
> and the project goes down the drain."
>                     (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 21:22:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:22:50 -0400
Subject: Is 0 > None??
In-Reply-To: <3B901E7C.37E25327@bullfrog-tech.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFJLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Manus Hand]
> Yes, I knew I was opening myself up for nifty-tricking.
>
> And yes, I knew from when the result of "0 < None" changed
> when 1.5.2 came out that it is explicit that its undefined.
>
> So I repeat, I knew I was opening myself up.  Just thought
> I could convince TPTB that maybe it was worth defining.

Actually, at the last second Guido put in a hack to ensure than None
compared less than anything else.  If it *has* to mean something, that's as
good as anything, and seemed better than most.

> If I'm the only one foolish enough to write code that depends
> on the result of 0 < None, well, I will feel especially special.

We can hope <wink>.

> And yes, I knew there was no such thing as sys.minint.  :-)
>
> Someone asked what the affected code was.  Here is
> a simplified rundown.
>
> class Consortium:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.bids = [None] * 3
>     def bid(self, who, amt):
>         self.bids[who] = min(self.bids[who], amt)
>
> In other words, I was too lazy to type:
>         if self.bids[who] is None: self.bids[who] = amt
>         else: self.bids[who] = min(self.bids[who], amt)
>
> Continuing....
>
>     def __cmp__(self, other):
>         return cmp(self.bids, key.bids)  # None compares "correctly"
>
> The class provides a list of bid amounts, one for each of three ordered
> persons.  These people each contribute money to different consotriums
> to purchase something.
>
> Let's say these people are named Al, Bud, and Carl.  Al is bidder #1
> (any amount he offers to a cpecific consortium's bid goes into the
> [0] element of the bids attribute).  Bud is bidder #2 (his offer goes
> into the [1] element) and Carl is bidder #3 (his offer goes into the [2]
> element).
>
> If two consortiums offer the same total bid, the one that wins is
> the one in which Al offered LESS money.  If Al offered the same amount
> to both winning consortiums (or did not contribute to either of them),
> then the winning bid is the one in which BUD offered LESS money.
> Again, if Bud offered the same amount or did not offer at all, Carl's
> data would determine.  (Okay, I simplified the application too much;
> if Al and Bud's offer amounts don't break the tie, Carl's sure won't;
> trust me, though -- in the real, more complex application, two
> Consotriums are guaranteed to compare unequal).
>
> The thing that was handy was that not offering money to a consortium
> (i.e., "None" for your entry) compared worse than having offered
> a hundred zillion million dollars. (which was worse than having offered
> only niney-nine zillion million dollars, which was worse than having
> offered ... etc., etc., which was worse than the best possible offer,
> which is one single dollar).

And this is "a reason" to make None compare larger than anything else?  What
if you were running an auction instead, and wanted the *high* bid to win
(and so None "should be" less than anything else)?  This is utterly
arbitrary.

> Changing the __cmp__() function was a sad thing to do.  I had
> created the bids list specifically so that list comparison would work.
>
> I could make the value assigned to "bids" in __init__() thus:
>     self.bids = [sys.maxint] * 3
>
> :-(
>
> The thing is, __repr__ was very nice.  It was obvious when someone had
> bid money and when he didn't, because the word "None" showed up.
>
> I know I could continue with "None" in the bids, if I'm really that
> concerned about __repr__(), but that would mean a __cmp__()
> function that is far more complicated than
>     return cmp(self.bids, other.bids)
>
> Well, a bit more complicated -- I could do this:
>     return cmp([x is None and sys.maxint or x for x in self.bids],
>                [x is None and sys.maxint or x for x in self.bids])
>
> Okay, I've wasted enough of your time.

Yes, but I'm not done wasting yours <wink>.  If you want a magical value,
build one explicitly; there's no need to mangle your __cmp__ etc:

class Infinity:
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.reprname = name

    def __cmp__(self, other):
        if isinstance(other, Infinity):
            return 0
        return 1

    def __repr__(self):
        return self.reprname

NoBid = Infinity("no bid")

print min([NoBid] * 3) # prints "no bid"
print min([NoBid] * 2 + [500]) # prints 500

Now you've got a NoBid object that compares greater than anything else
(except for another of its own kind -- season to taste), that displays as

    no bid

when repr()ed (season to taste), and where both behaviors are reliable
because explicitly coded.  If you want to keep it obscure <wink>, replace
the __repr__ guts with

    return not isinstance(other, Infinity)

clean-and-filthy-all-at-the-same-time-ly y'rs  - tinm




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 30 00:56:00 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:56:00 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net> <9cojotgk3dmqr99cfbpeboaemgnudeqdc0@4ax.com> <3b8ac249.624843477@wa.news.verio.net> <oc4motgrortc70p096as7u3hi4ccvl8lt3@4ax.com> <uheuslks8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <93tqots93oa2krvtovf86su51g3c8jb363@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ubskygn8f.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:

> So, you're saying that the way you usually handle exclusive access to
> objects, is by creating/removing directories? 

If I need to have a reliable means (or at least about as reliable as
possible) for gross-level locking compatibly cross-platform and
especially if NFS is involved (see my other recent post), then yes,
creating/removing directories is something I've used successfully in
the past.  If my target domain is more limited, then the range of
possibilities expand.

> Yes, I discovered that while testing, today. Ignacio had suggested that
> I needed a __del__ function for my classes, and I found out today, that
> on Linux, if an object had the lock and was deleted but that process
> still kept running, I could not recover the lock. I've written a __del__
> function, now, that seems to work. It unlocks the file and does cleanup.

You're still somewhat at risk if your process is forcibly killed but
without permitting cleanup.  Or if for example, your lock is across
the network but the source system for the lock crashes.

One approach that can be used is that in addition to creating the
sentinel file, once you "have the lock" create a PID file that
contains the PID of the process that has the lock.

When attempting to get the lock, if it fails, read the PID file and
then see if there is a process with that id on the system.  If so,
assume the lock is valid and wait.  You might be wrong if the actual
process died but the id got reused, but it's the more conservative
choice.  (If you know that all processes using the lock are a
particular executable you can add cross-checks for that).

If not, log nasty warnings in your log files or consoles, then go
ahead and remove the lock and then try to re-acquire.  Depending on
the timing requirements for a blocked system in the presence of
crashes, you can have this cleanup performed by an independent task at
some regular interval.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From monch at hereandnow.com  Wed Aug 15 07:10:54 2001
From: monch at hereandnow.com (David Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:10:54 GMT
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2Nse7.19494$A5.57337@news1.eburwd1.vic.optushome.com.au>

I've got a customer who's gone down the path that Maan doesn't want to go
down, and they've got their own set of problems as a result.  Hopefully this
will be useful to Maan, then someone can answer MY questions <g>

This customer decided to deploy their small B2B app using WebSphere/DB2
running on an AIX box.  They were completely sold on the marketing bumph
from IBM; they've finally gone live, WAAAAY late and WAAAY over budget, only
to find that ongoing development / deployment / support / hardware &
software upgrades for their current solution brings its own set of horrors.

They didn't take a lot to convince them that a partial or complete rewrite
based on open-source products was at least worth consideration.  Initially,
I was thinking Apache/Tomcat/JBoss (or something similar), but lately I've
started thinking about ditching JSP altogether and looking at Zope.  Most of
their business logic is fairly rudimentary, although it's likely to need
tweaking fairly regularly; although they expect to grow exponentially (which
startup doesn't?), their current processing and storage requirements are
fairly low; they want to be able to engage a relatively cheap Web designer
on an ongoing basis to use stuff like UltraDev to keep their site fresh,
rather than retain one or more relatively expensive Java guys to do the job;
the content generation guys are completely removed from any business logic
and site design; although they're doing B2B, there's not vast amounts of
money at risk if the site is compromised; Zope seems a very good fit in
these respects.  They're fairly technically capable as an organization, and
would probably be able to learn enough Python and DTML to eventually do a
lot of the maintenance work in-house.

A few questions, though:
- has anyone had any experience migrating from a J2EE-based app to a
Zope-based solution?  There's obviously a few challenges here, but I'm not
sure how to start quantifying them
- any "from the trenches" stories about Zope's scalability?  I know the Zope
site says it scales "a lot", but it looks like most of their reference sites
are primarily concerned with "content publishing" as distinct from "B2B" or
"e-commerce", and the requirements are significantly different
- any existing B2B sites based on Zope?  In particular, a few comparable
reference sites would be handy at this point...

Thanks in advance

monch





From bawolk at ucdavis.edu  Fri Aug 24 21:06:53 2001
From: bawolk at ucdavis.edu (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:06:53 -0700
Subject: PyQt
References: <OKAh7.14691$6x5.3840433@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <3B86FA2D.EB7D73AB@ucdavis.edu>

When you configure SIP and PyQt, make sure to run ./configure with

--with-python=<path/to/py/executable>  --with-qt-dir=<path/to/correct/qt/dir>

The problem is that there may be various versions of python and qt lying
around.  It will all be worth it once it installs.

Cheers, Bruce

LeoDeBeo wrote:

> sorry me again
>
> i was able to find the PyQt modules in my old python1.5 site-packages path.
> i'm using python2.0 now
> i included in my PYTHONPATH the site-packages directory from version1.5 but
> still i can't import qt in python2.1
>
> when importing qt python2.1 gives following error message
>
> File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/qt.py", line 44, in ?
>         import libqtc
> ImportError: /usr/local/lib/libsip.so.6: undefined symbol: Py_Free
>
> anyone an idea?
> tx
>
>



From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sun Aug 12 07:12:22 2001
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:12:22 +0100
Subject: Py 1.5.2 -> Py 2.1.1 broke regular expression?
References: <mailman.997562539.29253.python-list@python.org> <110820011503467351%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>
Message-ID: <3B766496.6DDEF6CA@ndh.net>

Hello John

"John W. Baxter" schrieb:
> Implementation note: The re module has two distinct implementations:
> sre is the default implementation and includes Unicode support, but may
> run into stack limitations for some patterns. Though this will be fixed
> for a future release of Python, the older implementation (without
> Unicode support) is still available as the pre module.
> 
> I think Stefan has found an instance of "some patterns".
> 
> I suppose the first thing to try would be to import and use pre rather
> than re .

In fact, with
  import pre as re
it seems to work :-)

Thank you, John.

Stefan


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 19:04:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:04:32 +0200
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <3B9EC544@twigger.nl> <mailman.997474704.7401.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l1pav01tcn@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997474704.7401.python-list at python.org...
> Ok, so swap works, just like you said it should.  (I'm still mad that I
> didn't see that.)
>
> however, the next project is to write a 'cycle_variables' function (or
> single line like you did before.)
>
> So, this time, we take an arbitrary number of variables, and cycle them
> through.
>
> def cycle (*vars) :
>    print 'Cycling the variables...'
>    vars = list(vars)
>    print vars
>    temp = vars[0]
>    for index in range(len(vars) - 1) :
>        vars[index] = vars[index + 1]
>
>    vars[-1] = temp
>    print vars
>    print 'See, I cycled them!'

def cycle(*vars):
    return vars[1:]+vars[:1]

but this needs to be called in the way you seem to detest:

a,b,c,d=cycle(a,b,c,d)

or, if you don't insist on there being a function, then

a,b,c,d=b,c,d,a


There is no general and reliable way for a Python function to
affect its caller's bindings -- or even check in any way that
the values it's being passed DO come from any bindings in
its caller (one or more of them could be values generated on
the fly, or plucked from elsewhere).  *VALUES* -- that's
what a Python function is passed.  VALUES are bound to
its arguments at the call point.  So, its arguments refer to
values (aka objects), but there's no information regarding
how thows values were obtained -- just references to the
values themselves.  The function gets passed NO information
about what (if any) references composed the expressions
its caller used to compute those values -- just the results
of those expressions.

In other words: given the situations:

    a(2+2)
    a(4)
    a(5-1)
    x=4; a(x)

there is *NO* detectable difference between them AT ALL
from a's viewpoint.  There is NO way a can behave differently
in these cases.  ALL it gets is, its own reference to the
immutable value 4, an int object.  Period.  No more, no less.


Alex





From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sun Aug 19 20:56:41 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:56:41 GMT
Subject: zlib problems with Python 2.0
References: <LGBX1rs21rjs-pn2-gplXEtVO9vBF@1Cust178.tnt53.rtm1.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9102DEC582B7Drcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Peter van der Kamp wrote:

> My script does the following.
> Read chunks of text from a text file (I have good reasons not to
> compress the complete file, so I won't explain that here).

Let me guess: you're trying to make a text search machine, right? Don't 
make the chunks too small, though, the compression ratio really suffers 
in that case.


> z = open("d:\\z.dat", "w")

Shouldn't that be "wb"?


> z = open("d:\\z.dat", "r")

And this "rb", perhaps?

That could be the reason tell/seek doesn't work as expected. If that 
doesn't cure is, write a distictive marker (a few bytes) in the file 
before each chunk, and check if it's at the expected position _before_ 
decompressing. You might even want to leave it in the finished code, 
it's a good indicator of file corruption.


HTH, Robert Amesz


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 16:42:47 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 13:42:47 -0700
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <mailman.998584063.22360.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl69d4z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998656777.13591.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xr8u12nqw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com> writes:
> Mason and SkunkWeb compare rather well with each other, as they do tend 
> to attack the web serving problem in similar ways.

Thanks... a few more questions...

Does SkunkWeb have any automatic workflow (content management) tools
the way Mason does?

>  * Mason and SkunkWeb have a similar approach to their templating languages,
>    but I don't think you can reasonably extent Mason's whereby SkunkWeb's
>    templating language was designed to be extendable.

Can you say why all those template tags are needed?  Do they get you
something that a PHP-like approach doesn't?  PHP just has a <?php ... ?>
tag and you replace the ... with PHP code.

>  * Mason and SkunkWeb both have HTML and data components.
>
>  * Mason and SkunkWeb both have a Request object (though SkunkWeb calls
>    it CONNECTION).

OK

>  * Mason uses Perl, SkunkWeb uses Python.

Advantage SkunkWeb :-)

>  * Mason runs in-process with Apache (under mod_perl), SkunkWeb is
>    it's own daemon (Apache talks to the daemon either by mod_skunkweb
>    or by a CGI) and if you like, can serve HTTP itself directly.

OK... I prefer Skunkweb's approach as long as you don't have to fork
new Skunkweb processes all the time.

>  * Caching.  Mason caches component output to DBM whereby SkunkWeb
>    caches to disk files.  SkunkWeb's cache can be shared between
>    machines as well as managed with filesystem tools.  SkunkWeb's
>    caching interface is also a lot easier to use.

OK, but if you need a lot of caching, is that not a sign that the
template engine is too slow?  I'm even more scared of Zope.  I notice
that www.zope.com says it's served by three separate machines
connected by a load balancer.  I don't know how many visitors they get
but it can't be nearly enough to need that much hardware under any
reasonable page generating system.

I have no direct experience with any of these systems (Mason,
SkunkWeb, Zope) though.  I read the Mason manual a few months ago and
it seemed pretty good, though messy because it's Perl.  I've been
using PHP and have been pretty impressed with it.  Can you add a
SkunkWeb-PHP comparison to your FAQ?  I know that Mason (and SkunkWeb)
do some things that PHP doesn't but I've forgotten what.


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Mon Aug 20 20:29:26 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:29:26 +0100
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
References: <slrn9o3ske.1cf.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <9lt2no$ik8$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Andrei Kulakov wrote:
>I made a little function that checks for a new version of a program and if
>there is a new version, asks the user if he wants it downloaded. Are there
>any gotchas here?

There are a few things to worry about, some technical and some social.

The social first.  There are people who don't like their software
going out into the world without their permission.  Sometimes it's
because they don't like others knowing when their using code, or
that it implements a license check, or worry that it's being
used to transmit more than an update check, or just plain paranoia.

Sometimes it's for more practical reasons, like being on a dial-up-
on-demand line where the modem might kick in to connect.  And
that whole process could take a minute or more.  Trust me on this :(

You've got a way to disable it.  It's got a way to be disabled.
I aske that you make it clear in the README, INSTALL and documentation
that this exists and can be turned off.

Now for the more technical issues.  I'm not sure enough about urllib
and its interaction with proxies, so I won't answer your most
direct inquiry.  What I can say is that programs like this are
fraught with security problems.  Here's a few concerns I have:

  - how stable is your site?  If it goes down, the call to get
changes_url will fail and raise an exception.

  - will you trust whoever might have the domain after you?
After all, if people your code when that happens then there's
a way for others to sneak in arbitrary code onto the client
machine.

  - I understand there are ways to spoof DNS

>            cy_fname = "cymbaline-%s.tar.gz" % __version__
>            cy_url = base_url + cy_fname
>            cy = urllib.urlopen(cy_url).read()
>            fname = os.path.expanduser("~/" + cy_fname)
>            f = open(fname, 'w')
>            f.write(cy)
>            f.close()

Suppose someone hacked your server.  It's good that you
enforce that the file begins with "cymbaline-" and ends with
".tar.gz" so it's almost impossible to overwrite some other
file, like .login.

However, you then do

>            os.system("tar zxvf %s " % fname)

This assumes GNU tar, since 'z' isn't a standard option.
More worrisome, fname contains an arbitrary string sent by
the server.  With the hacker-attacked-your-server scenario,
suppose the version string was changed to
  ;xterm -display remote.host:0"
Then the code would be downloaded to
    "~/cymbaline;xterm -display remote.host:0.tar.gz"
which is a perfectly valid file name.  But then
  os.system("tar zxvf "~/cymbaline;xterm -display remote.host:0.tar.gz")
gets called, which opens an xterm on the attacker's designated machine.
And of course it could do anything else it wanted besides running xterm.


>Comments appreciated,

Code that does automatic updating is very tricky.  There are too
many potential security holes in it.  The only way I've seen
it done that seems safe is with some sort of crypto signatures,
but even that has its own problems.  (Eg, is the secret key on the
machine accessible to the world?)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From anamax at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 13:32:31 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 10:32:31 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com>

Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message news:<psoitg1md4l.fsf at jekyll.curl.com>...
> anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:
> > Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
> > improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
> > consideration.
> 
> It could be pretty expensive to move all of your code to a faster language if
> you discover that Python is not good enough.  Sometimes you can write C
> extensions for the slow parts, but in some cases you will have to start over.

If experience is much of a guide, writing first in python and then
in C tends to be cheaper/faster than writing in C from the beginning.
Heck, writing in C then writing in C is often cheaper than writing in C.

BTW - I would like to see an application that doesn't have significant
hotspots.  I doubt that there are very many.

> Don't be silly.  Try to write a 3D game entirely in Python without using any
> extensions.  You won't stand a chance.  Once you have to resort to extensions,
> you aren't talking about Python anymore but C.

And, how many of us are writing 3D games?  And, what fraction of their
functionality demands C today?  In six months?  Since Python is being
used extensively for 3D games today....  (BTW - Why does a single C
extension make something a C program?  Does it matter whether that
C extension is "standard"?)

Besides, the compute-intensive part of 3D games has already migrated to
near-hardware.   There's still some mechanics/lighting that Python
can't quite do in real-time, but Moore's law will cure that fairly soon.
At that point, the only C "required" will be doing format conversions
(because python's internal representations are unlikely to match what
the display processor demands).

> applications, but it is ridiculous to say that there aren't a significant
> number of applications for which it does not have the required performance.

The only significant application is the one that you're working on.

However, if you think that you're forced to C for performance and the
application is big enough to take six or more months to write in C, you
might find that you're better off taking half that time off and then
writing in Python because Python will be faster then.

In a Moore's Law world, trading increased development time for increased
performance has generally been a loser.  That's how C (mostly) killed
assembler.  That's how relational databases won.  Java is trying to
ride the same trend.  Even when "performance is more important than
development time" has won in the short-term, it has lost in the long
term.

Today, most of us (outside the embedded world) write apps that are
disk-bound or wait for people, and that fraction is increasing.

-andy


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 08:18:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:18:44 +0200
Subject: Is this the *right* way of exception handling?
References: <9kdr21$rao$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <9ke4tk07bi@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Piotr Legiecki" <piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl> wrote in message
news:9kdr21$rao$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl...
> Hi
>
> I wonder if the way I use exceptions is the right way or very problematic
> one (anyway it works of course).

You're using a string exception: this has not been the right way for
a while in Python -- use a class instead.

> I have one class and fill it with a data. If data are wrong i raise my
> exception:
>
> class A:
>   my_exception='my_exception'
> .......

Change to:
class A:
    class my_exception(Exception): pass
    ....

>   def f(self,a):
>      if a !=0
> raise my_exception, 'a must be 0'

I think you mean
    raise self.my_exception, 'a must be 0'
or
    raise A.my_exception, 'a must be 0'
because unqualified my_exception can't possibly work here.

>     #!!now, what to do here, i want to stop my program, but should clean
>      something (close files etc) before, so sys.exit() is not a good idea
>      another raise?

sys.exit() raises SystemExit, so there's not all that much difference
between calling it and raising something else.  Normally, a raise without
parameters, re-raising the same exception you just caught, is simplest.

>
> def main():
> ...
>   use some resources, open files etc
>
>   f1()
>
>   close resources, files etc

Make sure main uses:
    try: f1()
    finally:
        close_whatever()
so that close_whatever is called no matter what.


Alex





From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Aug 11 19:28:47 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:28:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <9l4a9c023nn@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108111807310.15388-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Glyph Lefkowitz" <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997561650.27157.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> > Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> > remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?
> 
> That's how I'm reading Guido's messages in this thread, too.

OK.  Then I don't regret expressing alarm and causing rioting in the
streets <0.9 wink>.

> I don't know of any better way to handle the Promise design pattern,
> either.  In C++, I'm having to kludge around it all the time via
> letter/envelope idioms -- the possibility of changing classes on the
> fly makes it much simpler and more direct.  Hadn't thought of that
> earlier...

I think the ZODB uses something like this, but it's implemented using
ExtensionClasses.  I'd hate to see it become a requirement to muck around
in native code.

> > twisted.python.rebuild.rebuild, is based entirely upon this "trick".  One
> > of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
> > and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.
> 
> That one seems to be related to _another_ capability (of which I've
> seen no indication that it's also going away) -- keeping the same
> class object. but changing that object (rebinding method attributes
> thereof).  Or maybe I don't understand exactly what you mean?

Hmm, I suppose that could be done as well; I'd have to do some other
shuffling around of class references in order to keep isinstance() working
like it should, but you're right: it's not impossible.

> It seems to me the functionality of become is homomorphic to that
> of class-assignment, unless I'm truly missing something major.

Class-assignment + dict-assignment is nearly homomorphic. Of course, if we
could do *real* reference replacement, then you could have a Promise for a
python list :-).

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From tbryan at python.net  Fri Aug  3 13:51:51 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:51:51 +0500
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9kfno6$f5d$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Tom Bryan wrote:

> So, what are the "best practices" when using import (other than the simple
> "don't do a from module import *"?
> 
> i'll-even-use-the-answers-to-improve-python's-faq-ly yours

FAQ 4.100 has been updated. :-)

now-you-can-just-answer-that-question-with-RTFM-ly yours
---Tom



From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug  1 01:17:08 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 05:17:08 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996524288.7635.python-list@python.org> <jonathan-D4822F.08343331072001@news.easynet.co.uk> <Xns90EF65598E954michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <3B66B3A2.F47BA3E2@engcorp.com> <3B66E4FA.158E7DDA@home.net> <u4qdmtcsd0uj65qgl9itrejaipq1mr36ut@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ohM97.57080$EP6.13418898@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:u4qdmtcsd0uj65qgl9itrejaipq1mr36ut at 4ax.com...
>
> http:\\www.smallscript.com. Execution times within 1-2X of C.

This site has about zero to do with Python.  Main page include Python
as (planned) secondary language.  Contents links Python back to PEP
index page (bizarre).  'Python for AOS' page is under construction.

Where did you find fabulous Python compilation results you keep
reporting?

Terry J. Reedy





From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 31 20:21:04 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:21:04 -0600
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
References: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no> <9mnse0$knh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <9mp27s$mob$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <3B9017FC.F2758CCC@ccvcorp.com> <9mp61a$mf8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <3B9028D7.92814D20@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9mp9nn$ce6$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Jeff Shannon:
>oh, hell.  >smacks forehead<   Guess I should pay more attention to what
>I'm doing before I tell someone else they're wrong, eh?

No problem.  I've made that mistake often enough that my forehead
twinges whenever I press the % key.  :)

                    Andrew





From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug  8 13:52:52 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 17:52:52 GMT
Subject: Instances?
References: <3B671064.73902FDF@mitre.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2v3j.vg6.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:09:08 -0400, Angel Asencio <asencio at mitre.org> wrote:
>class Foo:
>    x = []
>    y = []
...
>Then, chenged the class to:
>
>class Foo:
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.x = []
>        self.y = []
...
> So, does not putting data attributes inside the __init__ would
>make them the equivalent to class variables on smalltalk or
>static variables in Java?

Sort of.  Everything after 'class Foo:' gets executed when 'class Foo' is
executed.  If you think about it, it has to, because the
'def method(self, ...)'s have to be executed then.  'def' is a statement just
like any other, as you can see if you do:

class Foo:
    print 'hi!'
    if foo:
        f = open('foo')
    else:
        q = 10

The important difference about things after a 'class X' is that assignments
will bind into the class namespace instead of the global or local namespace
(well, the class namespace is the local namespace, but, like a dictionary and
unlike a function, it isn't destroyed or inaccessible when the thread of
execution leaves it).  'def' statements count as assignment.

Anyway, when you ask an instance for an attribute, it first looks in the
instance's namespace.  If it doesn't find it there, it looks in its class'
namespace.  If it doesn't find it there, it looks in superclass' namespaces,
and if it's not there, it raises an AttributeError.  Since instances are a
seperate namespace from their classes (they have to be, or else instance
variables would all be class variables), when you bind in the instance
namespace you are shadowing things in the class namespace, the same way as you
shadow things in the global namespace or in a superclass' namespace.  Anyway,
the short of it is that:

class Foo:
    x = 5

f = Foo()
f.x = 10 # this creates a *new* x that shadows Foo's x
f.x
#-> 10
del f.x
f.x # now the old x is visible again
#-> 5

But as long as you don't create a new x, but merely modify the old x (like if
x were a list and you modified its contents), all the instances will continue
to see the same x (in the same way they all see the same methods) and it will
*act* like a class variable.

I think this is in the FAQ.


From lnx at telusplanet.net  Wed Aug 22 22:26:26 2001
From: lnx at telusplanet.net (Greg Saunders)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:26:26 GMT
Subject: low level device control
Message-ID: <3B83C1A8.4010608@telusplanet.net>

First, let me state that I am a python newbie but absolutely love the 
language and am having a great deal of fun with it. Hail to the BDFL.

Here's the challage and I'm not exactly sure where to start.

I need to control two pairs of pin outs on a hardward device. The device 
has four pin outs. PIN1 sends a 12 volt pulse and is returned to ground 
via PIN2 if the two are shorted. PIN3 and PIN4 are either shorted, or 
not, putting the device in ready/not ready state respectively. The pulse 
on PIN1 needs to be read and counted (one count per pulse).

PIN1 - pulse
PIN2 - used to return pulse to ground if shorted

PIN3 - creates a circuit with PIN4 if closed
PIN4 - as above and puts the device into READY if shorted with PIN3

Here's what I want to do. I want to use python and a serial connection 
to read the pulses on PIN1 and be able to open and close the circuit 
programmatically on PIN3 and PIN4.

I can hack together a custom cable to tie into the harness.

My program knowledge is limited and my python knowledge is even more 
limited (but I'm learning quickly :-) but not quick enough). I've 
scanned throught the "termios" library reference but it does not appear 
to be what I'm looking for.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Greg Saunders



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Aug  7 15:01:09 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:01:09 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu> <1004690.ASKD2KPVSP@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B703AF5.620B1108@ccvcorp.com>

Markus Schaber wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Dylan Thurston <dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu> schrub:
>
> > Let me complain a little about the slicing interface while I'm at it.
> > I don't understand why missing endpoints are turned into 0/maxint
> > (rather than, say, 'None') before calling __getitem__; it removes a
> > lot of flexibility.  Also, why are the slices restricted to being
> > integers?  I can imagine, say, slicing a 2-dimensional array based on
> > the endpoints (like 'delete-rectangle', etc. in Emacs).
>
> With the automatic turning to 0/maxint, they even are limited to
> non-negative integers. So it is impossible to use any form of negative
> indexes, which sometimes would be nice when dealing with coordinates.
>
> markus
>

Um.... you *can* use negative values in slices:

>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> mylist[-2:-1]
[3]
>>> mylist [:-2]
[1, 2]

What you can't have, is negative indices into a list.  Neither of these,
however, have anything to do with the specific case being discussed, which
is the default value used for unspecified slice endpoints.

A list of lists is really not the same thing as a 2d-array, and is probably
not suitable for use as a coordinate system.  If you really *must* do so,
though, and your coordinates *must* include negative values, then you could
wrap the list of lists into a class and provide an automatic translation.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 19:03:01 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:03:01 -0000
Subject: Changing files without making new images?
Message-ID: <9lhjf5+h7kc@eGroups.com>

Is it possible to change the image file of an image object in 
Tkinter without making new image objects? I'd like to do this 
because the program I'm writing uses a whole lot of images, and I 
don't want to make image objects for each one. :)

from Tkinter import *
import Image,ImageTk
top = Tk()
top.title("Kuti")
top.geometry("200x100")
iKuti = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("body/lighttan.gif"))
iKuti2 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("hair/brownbuns.gif"))
iKuti3 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/whiteblouse.gif"))
top.mainloop()

Also, this program uses images in a directory. Is there a way to 
move through each image without renaming them to 1.png, 2.png, 
3.png...? That would allow me to add as many images as I want, and 
pushing a button will display the next image. Any ideas?





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 16:32:01 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:32:01 -0500
Subject: Saving disk space (was: Re: Python versions (was Re: os.execl()))
In-Reply-To: <di9lotsvnk6f0f598dc8nfsojusdcn5no5@4ax.com>
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
        <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
        <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
        <mailman.998937042.23650.python-list@python.org>
        <di9lotsvnk6f0f598dc8nfsojusdcn5no5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15242.44609.770400.525937@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sheila> The test/ directory is long since gone, as the total space my
    Sheila> site had at the time of last install, was 45 MB. Now I have 70
    Sheila> MB, with near to half of that free. But clearly, no room for the
    Sheila> unnecessary stuff. When I do an install, I have to temporarily
    Sheila> go over my quota. I haven't called it to the sysadmin's
    Sheila> attention, and he hasn't said anything.  After the install is
    Sheila> complete, I start deleting stuff like crazy.

You might be able to avoid some of that over-quota stuff by getting tricky
about what make targets you build or by judicious editing of the install
stuff.   For example, you can delete "test" from the LIBSUBDIRS variable to
skip installing it and comment out the last two lines of the libinstall
target's actions which just generate all the .pyo files you're deleting.

Skip



From mda at idatar.com  Fri Aug 17 02:00:38 2001
From: mda at idatar.com (David Allen)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 06:00:38 GMT
Subject: SMTP
References: <3B7B8A72.4E9089A7@teleatlas.com>
Message-ID: <aq2f7.2$Mj.3555@typhoon1.gnilink.net>

In article <3B7B8A72.4E9089A7 at teleatlas.com>, "Ralf Claus"
<ralf.claus at teleatlas.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> how can I give a "subject" to smtplib ?
> 
> Thanks for your responses
> 
> Greeting
> Ralf

Putting "Subject:  Foobar!!!!" as the very first line of the message
body should do the trick.  Of course, that has nothing to do with
smtplib, but SMTP itself.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
>This is the `hash' symbol and makes #! at the start of a shell script
>`hash bang'.
Yes, and #!/bin/bash is thus pronounced "hash bang slash bin slash
bash".
		-- From comp.lang.lisp


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Thu Aug  2 04:31:26 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:31:26 +0100
Subject: Pmw --  for password entry how do I get it to echo *
References: <9kaj51$23p$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <3B690FDE.FEF070C6@westerngeco.com>

Jerry,


entry_show='*' 


should do the trick

incedentaly focus_set/focus_get and this snipet of code to center your 
dialog....

root = Tk()
Label(root,text="Cough Cough Cough").pack()
root.update()
sw = root.winfo_screenwidth()
sh = root.winfo_screenheight()
w = root.winfo_width()
h = root.winfo_height()
newGeometry='+%d+%d' % ((sw/2)-(w/2), (sh/2)-(h/2))
root.geometry(newGeometry=newGeometry)
root.mainloop()


As for the ghost dialog box I guess you are doing somthing like..


from Tkinter import *

top=Toplevel()
entry=Entry(top....)
...
...
...
top.mainloop()




If this is the case change the Toplevel() to Tk()



HTH
Martin


Jerry Gitomer wrote:
> 
>         I am building an application using the Pmw widget set and can't
> figure out how to do what show = '*' does for the plain vanilla
> Tkinter Entry widget.  I don't want to use plain Tkinter for
> three reasons; 1) because I can't figure out who to set it up so
> that focus in the userid/password dialog widget can be
> automatic, i.e. no mouse movement required, 2) I don't know how
> to get the dialog widget positioned where I want it on the
> screen, and 3) I can't get rid of "the ghost dialog box" that is
> so generously :-) displayed on my screen.
> 
> --
> Jerry Gitomer
> Once I learned how to spell DBA, I became one


From joesalt at ireland.com  Tue Aug 14 21:54:07 2001
From: joesalt at ireland.com (JS)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 18:54:07 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
Message-ID: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com>

Is there anything that works like this?

checkLink(url):
     # If url exists, return 1
     # If url does not exist, return 0

All I want to do is check the external links in a html file and log if
they exist or not. Unfortunately, I am not skilled enough to write
something myself.

Thanks!


From muldrow at mac.com  Sun Aug  5 22:55:09 2001
From: muldrow at mac.com (Chris Muldrow)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 19:55:09 -0700
Subject: Grabbing image information with PIL
Message-ID: <6c5602dc.0108051855.76d1f107@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to retrieve the IPTC/NAA information saved to a JPEG file
out of Photoshop. I see the IPTC plugin for the Python Imaging
Library, but I can't seem to find any documentation on how to use the
plguin to parse out he information. Anyone have some insight? thanks
in advance!
Chris Muldrow


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 02:59:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:59:01 +0200
Subject: How to implement C++ equivalent of templates
References: <mailman.998113228.23710.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ll3rk01h8m@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Learn Python" <learnpython at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998113228.23710.python-list at python.org...
>
> Was trying to write my vector.
> Am not able to write a class which encloses a list and control access to
the
> list through __setitem__ and __getitem__ because
>
> isinstance() expects a class name as the argument and not a string
> representation of the class.

So don't do it.  Type testing is bad news, so don't test types.

> So am not able to verify the actual class name
> @ runtime in the __setitem__ method
>
> i thougt i c'd allow the user to configure the class instances
> he wants to hold in the MyVector class __init__.
>
> can someone show tell me how this can be done?

You can have __init__ take the class object if you're so keen on
using isinstance.  No need to pass strings -- a class is an object.
But, as usual with typetesting, you're not really giving much
added value, just overhead and headaches.

Anyway, if you insist:

class Homogeneous:
    def __init__(self, klass):
        self.klass = klass
        self.data = []
    def append(self, item):
        if not isinstance(item,self.klass):
            raise TypeError
        self.data.append(item)

and so on, to be called e.g.:

class Whatever: pass

h = Homogeneous(Whatever)
h.append(Whatever()) # works
h.append(23) # raises


Alex





From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 20 22:56:39 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:56:39 GMT
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
References: <zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <gej3otsuptm9a317ojh4kiu6po4pvi09v5@4ax.com>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:39:31 GMT, "Dev Null" <dev__nu11 at hotmail.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783 at paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>:

:Yeah, okay.  It looks like just another ordinary little bunny in front of a
:cave's mouth.
:
:But in reality, it's much deadlier.  It's a Python newbie.
:
:Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?

There are MANY. Here is a select list that I put together for my high
school students this past May:
http://www.thinkspot.net/materdei/apcompsci/python/index.html

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au  Tue Aug 28 00:24:45 2001
From: dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au (Dave Harrison)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:24:45 +1000
Subject: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
Message-ID: <20010828142445.A19476@isetroc.com>

Im writing a script that goes through and reads zipped log.  So far so cool.

Now the current install on the server is 1.5.2 which is nice, but I was hoping 2.2.1 would be faster at reading the logs by virtue of xreadlines and general tweaking over time.

But to my surprise and mild horror 1.5.2 was clocking horrendously faster than 2.2.1 ....

Whats the deal ? It may be something basic Im overlooking but I cant see why 2.2.1 should not at least be the same speed as 1.5.2.

My basic timing code is as follows :


FOR 1.5.2 :
-------------------------------------------
import gzip, time
list = []
file = gzip.open('20010615.gz')
start = time.clock()
for line in file.readlines():
        list.append(line)
stop = time.clock()
total = stop - start
print
print '1.5.2 Running Time : '+str(total)
print
-------------------------------------------


FOR 2.2.1 :
-------------------------------------------
import gzip, time, xreadlines
list = []
file = gzip.open('20010615.gz')
start = time.clock()
for line in xreadlines.xreadlines(file):
        list.append(line)
stop = time.clock()
total = stop-start
print
print 'Total running time 2.2.1a : '+str(total)
print
-------------------------------------------

The time come out at :
1.5.2 -> 3 seconds or so
2.2.1 -> 13 seconds or so

Help ?

Dave



From fdrake at acm.org  Tue Aug 14 17:52:28 2001
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:52:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20010814215228.696DA28845@cj42289-a.reston1.va.home.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

A wide range of mostly small fixes and updates.  Some new C API functions
are documented.  Examples are given for how to mark up tables in the
"Documenting Python" guide.  The language reference contains more
information about support // and true division.




From mike-list at wakerly.com  Fri Aug 10 19:44:23 2001
From: mike-list at wakerly.com (mike wakerly)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:44:23 -0700 (PST)
Subject: Threads, namespaces, and the immortal event
In-Reply-To: None <mailman.997472836.3367.python-list@python.org> from Donn Cave <donn@drizzle.com> on Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:03:53 -0000
Message-ID: <200108102344.TAA02045@gloworm.cnchost.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010810/421beee2/attachment.ksh>

From just at letterror.com  Fri Aug 10 14:21:07 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:21:07 +0200
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org> <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com> <slrn9n833f.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <3B742612.BCEFB452@letterror.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> In article <3B7384D0.12FB2B35 at letterror.com>, Just van Rossum wrote:
> 
> > What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
> >
> >   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/
> 
> Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit
> time.

Per unit time. It's straight from the numbers at
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/

Just


From mfw127 at skorpio.usask.ca  Thu Aug 16 11:55:46 2001
From: mfw127 at skorpio.usask.ca (Mike F Winter)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:55:46 GMT
Subject: [Python/C++ Question] Embedding Modules in C++
References: <9let5g$sh9$1@tribune.usask.ca> <9lg31m$3k4$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <9lgqe2$bjo$1@tribune.usask.ca>

Duncan Grisby <dgrisby at uk.research.att.com> wrote:
: In article <9let5g$sh9$1 at tribune.usask.ca>,
: Mike F Winter  <mfw127 at skorpio.usask.ca> wrote:

:>While embedding my python code in C++, I can import and access some
:>system modules (string, etc..) fine, but when I try to import the
:>socket library, I get this error:

: [...]
:>ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so: undefined symbol:
:>PyEval_SaveThread

: The problem is that the linker has stripped out all the symbols from
: your executable, apart from the ones you actually use. When Python
: dlopen()s _socket.so, it tries to reference a symbol that has been
: stripped. The solution is to tell your linker not to strip the
: symbols. With GNU ld, for example, the option is --export-dynamic.

Thanks.  I solved the problem by linking in the .so's I was using manually, but
this is certainly a nicer solution.



From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 28 09:29:04 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:29:04 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: BUG? Re: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <15243.38327.524678.306744@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108281726380.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Roman> OK... Using Distutils for Python 1.5.2 for building Python 2.1.1
>     Roman> is impossible, because there are things missing and all kinds of
>     Roman> new syntax features (list comprehensions, +=, **args-call
>     Roman> syntax).
> 
> Roman,
> 
> Why aren't you just using the 2.1.1 distribution?  You shouldn't need *any*
> Python interpreter until after the core has been built.  Setup.py is only
> used to build the stuff in the Modules directory after the core interpreter
> has been built in the usual configure/make fashion.
> 
>     Roman> How people are supposed to build and install Python 2.1.1 on
>     Roman> RedHat 6x systems _right way_?
> 
> I'm sure many people have done this already.  Start from the tar.gz
> distribution. 

That is what I did. However, package management is essential 
for system's maintainability. And I think bdist_rpm need to
work correctly.

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From charlie at begeistert.org  Fri Aug 10 14:55:37 2001
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:55:37 +0200
Subject: Parsing HTML (continued)
Message-ID: <PM00038B318564A493@gormenghast.unknown.dom>

Danny Yoo gave me the following example:

>class EmphasisGlancer(htmllib.HTMLParser):
>    def __init__(self):
>        htmllib.HTMLParser.__init__(self,
>                                    formatter.NullFormatter())
>        self.in_bold = 0
>        self.in_underline = 0
>
>    def start_b(self, attrs):
>        print "Hey, I see a bold tag!"
>	     self.in_bold = 1
>
>    def end_b(self):
>        self.in_bold = 0
>
>    def start_u(self, attrs):
>        print "Hey, I see some underscored text!"
>        self.in_underline = 1
>
>    def end_u(self):
>        self.in_underline = 0
>
>
>    def start_blink(self, attrs):
>        print "Hey, this is some heinously blinking test... *grrrr*"
>
>
>    def handle_data(self, data):
>        if self.in_bold:
>             print "BOLD:", data
>        elif self.in_underline:
>             print "UNDERLINE:", data
>###
Well, I've had more success than I would have imagined possible but I'm
still struggling with some stuff in this sisyphian task. What I'm still
having difficulty with:

1) Nested tags
    <br> and html entities cause difficulties as they can be included
with impunity inside other tags. I've been setting flags and collecting
data only to get tripped up by <br> or an html-entity and seeing as I'm
parsing German text there a lot of those.

2) Doing work only on specific attributes
   I've written little string searches to fast forward in a page and
reduce the size of what has to be parsed. For the same reason I'd like
to be able to stop parsing on a specific event.

    I've now got a particularly nasty webpage which distributes its
relevant content in various blocks and triggering on simple anchors
catches too much data. How do I go about this? The specific example
would be checking the colour of a specific table cell:

<td height="40" bgcolor="eeeeff" width="50">

there doesn't seem to be predefined methods for tables in htmllib so do
they all get handled with "unknown tag"? Would the thing to do be to use
a def start_td or a do_td? and what do the _bgn methods do? The reason I
ask is because the example in the "Python standard library" works with
"anchor_bgn" and not "do_a" or "start_a"

I'm thinking along the lines of

self.text = 0      # flag for whether I need the text

def ....td(self, attrs)
    if self.bgcolor = "eeeeff":
        store data, nested_tags
    else: fast_foward(next_td)

many thanx,

Charlie


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 11:54:22 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:54:22 -0500
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <kuwv3xa4pm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org>
        <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
        <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org>
        <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
        <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list@python.org>
        <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
        <mailman.998398653.29844.python-list@python.org>
        <kuwv3xa4pm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <15234.33838.8650.343768@beluga.mojam.com>

    Erno> there are 2 things here and i am not sure which ones we are
    Erno> disagreeing about.

Nor am I.  From my perspective, I want time.time() to return the wall clock
time and time.clock() to tell me how much CPU my program has used since it
started.  If both of those aren't available on all platforms, then obviously
something will have to be fudged.  The time module is supposed to be a very
thin wrapper around various time-related C library functions.  time.time()
already uses gettimeofday() (if it's available) to do its dirty work.
Failing that, it falls back to ftime() or (last choice) time().
time.clock() uses the clock() library function on systems that have it.  On
Windows it uses QueryPerformanceCounter().  If neither case holds,
time.clock() simply isn't available.  I suspect that's the best that can be
done right now.  I think if there was a better solution, Guido and friends
would have found it by now.

    Erno> 1) it is usually better to use gettimeofday(2) than times(2) on
    Erno>    unix for timing code because times(2) has poor resolution and
    Erno>    the user/system time numbers are frequently gibberish.

    Erno> 2) the python time.clock() should return information based on
    Erno>    gettimeofday(2) and not times(2) on unix.

times() is not used anywhere in timemodule.c.

Skip



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Aug 14 14:37:55 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:37:55 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
In-Reply-To: <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org>
	<96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <oqitfqv664.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Courageous]

> We don't pay a red cent for Python, and don't really therefor have a
> right to dictate its direction.

Hi.  Even if you were paying many red cents, you would not automatically
acquire more rights in this area.  It depends on the contract.  People pay
for Microsoft software, and do not have much to say there, for example.

The only right you have is to _not_ pay, or the right to not use Python
if you do not like the directions it takes.

However, all this being said, the BDFL might well choose to listen to you,
or set up consultation mechanisms like PEPs, or otherwise open participation.
I mean that those owning Python may decide to give you some privileges...
The current Python license is a remarkably nice privilege already! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From wolfe at spam.me.not  Mon Aug 13 18:17:57 2001
From: wolfe at spam.me.not (Wolfe Maykut)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:17:57 -0700
Subject: Newbie lists question
Message-ID: <3B785215.19D583C8@spam.me.not>

    Hi.  I'm trying to create a list on the end of a dictionary.   I'd
like to have a single loop, but since the dictionary is dynamically
generated it appears as if I have to test to see if the key is around
and then treat each case differently in order to initialize the loop.
It looks ugly.  Is there a nicer way of doing this that I'm missing?

    Thanks,

                --Wolfe

#!/usr/bin/python

import os, time, glob, string

backupdir = glob.glob("/netbackups/.disks/disk*/*.out")

prefixes = {}

for file in backupdir:
    filename = string.split(file, '/')[-1]
    prefix = string.split(filename,'.')[0]
    if prefixes.has_key(prefix):                     # This is the loop
I think is tres' ugly
       prefixes[prefix].append(file)
    else:
        prefixes[prefix] = []
        prefixes[prefix].append(file)

for key in prefixes.keys():
    print key
    for file in prefixes[key]:
        st = os.stat(file)
        format = time.strftime("%b-%d-%Y-%H:00", time.localtime(st[8]))
        print "  ", file, format



From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 20 14:37:28 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: problem opening a file on 2.2a1
In-Reply-To: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201436430.11734-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Rajarshi Guha wrote:

> Hi,
>   I compiled Python 2.2a1 on RedHat 7.0. When I enter the python
> interpreter from the command line the code:
>
> data = open('data.out','w')
>
> works fine. But when I try it froma  script I get the error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./p.py", line 12, in ?
>     data = open('data.out','w')
> TypeError: an integer is required
>
> What am I doing wrong?
> TIA,
> Rajarshi Guha

Are you possibly importing a module that masks the built-in open()?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 02:55:40 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:55:40 GMT
Subject: Two Jython Questions
References: <mailman.999218077.28034.python-list@python.org> <yoFj7.519219$lq1.106456033@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <MxGj7.519890$lq1.106539282@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

I figured it out and now jython is working in Windows ME.
Using JAVA.EXE that comes with Sun SDK ver 2, and including the path to the
RT.JAR in CLASSPATH led to this problem.  Removing it from the CLASSPATH
removed the problem.  In Windows NT, RT.JAR in CLASSPATH is OK.  I maybe
missing some other setting that led to this.  But I'll figure it out.
I needed to make this work, because I sold our team where I work the idea of
using Python for all their scripting needs and they already like it a lot.
Now I want to introduce them into Jython and I needed to figure out how to
make this thing work so as to make it easy on everyone.
Thanks,
Maan

"Maan Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:yoFj7.519219$lq1.106456033 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Thank you all for the replies.  But I am dumpfounded (or is dumbfounded?)
> Again it quit working and apparently it can not find the CLASSPATH.  The
> CLASSPATH is in the environment.  But I can see clearly that it just is
not
> picking the path.  And for some reason Jython likes to use one particular
> JAVA.exe that came with the Java runtime for quicktime.
> This is simply confusing.  I'll just sleep on it and deal with it again
this
> weekend.  Things have a way of working themselves out.  I can see the
power
> of Jython.  Only if this mess of  classpaths is worked out.  But also
maybe
> Windows ME itself is the mess!
> Maan
>
> "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.999218077.28034.python-list at python.org...
> > > From: Maan M. Hamze [mailto:mmhamze at pleiades.net]
> > > Mats
> > > I figured out how to run things and how to set the path of classes.
> > > However, I am still running into one problem.  I am compiling
> > > a test.py file
> > > into test.class using jythonc and keep getting this error on
> > > running the
> > > class file:
> > > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Test
> > > By the way, I discovered that it creates test.java too.
> >
> > Sounds to me like you have the code set up like this ...
> >
> > # test.py
> >
> > class Test
> >
> >     # some stuff
> >
> > Now, Java (and Python for the most part) is case-sensistive on the
> > filesystem level. So, when you compile 'test.py' you end up with
> > 'test.class'.
> >
> > Then in your Java code you try to use the class 'Test'. It then searches
> for
> > a file called 'Test.class' - and doesn't find it!
> >
> > Try renaming your file to 'Test.py' (note case) and try again.
> >
> > Tim Delaney
> >
>
>




From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Aug 20 07:35:12 2001
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:35:12 +0100
Subject: Strip-o-Gram 1.0 Released!
Message-ID: <3B80F5F0.D7A87FB3@nipltd.com>

Strip-o-Gram is an HTML Conversion Library that can convert HTML to Plain Text
and strip specified tags from HTML.

See http://www.zope.org/Members/chrisw/StripOGram for more details.

cheers,

Chris



From grante at visi.com  Thu Aug 30 17:26:58 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:26:58 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <iCxj7.60$YN5.429 at pollux.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> I only want to make a form. Not a stupid screen with something on it....

Aren't we in a snotty mood today...

> What can i do with that screen?

How about putting your stupid form on it?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I've got a COUSIN
                                  at               who works in the GARMENT
                               visi.com            DISTRICT...


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 28 18:55:41 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:55:41 GMT
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999033582.32553.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NjVi7.185773$g_3.33739543@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

oppppsss Sorry
I mistook name for value.
In this case nothing should be wrong with:
Hidden = '<input type=hidden name=AnyNameHere value='+str(VAR1)+'>'
Then use
print Hidden
Maan
"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.999033582.32553.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Maan M. Hamze wrote:
>
> > or of course you can use:
> > print '<input type="hidden" name=',VAR1,'>'
> > As you see, you should not include your variable in the string because
it
> > will be treated just like another string.
>
> Ack! Using a comma in print will result in a space. But it's wrong
anyways.
> Use the following instead:
>
> ---
> print '<input type="hidden" name="VAR1" value="%s">' % VAR1
> ---
>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>
>




From sill at optonline.net  Tue Aug 21 11:49:04 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:49:04 GMT
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
References: <mailman.998402131.8498.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9o50gd.6bn.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:13:14 +1000, Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> [snip lots of stuff that I agree with]
> 
> IMO you should really only go to an update server when the user requests it.
> Have a prominent "Check updates" button ... Personally, I much prefer apps
> to simply bring up the "downloads" or "updates" web page in the default
> browser - then I can read the release notes (if any) and choose whether to
> apply the update.

Well, it's not a gui app so there's no buttons.. so it checks for a new
version and if one is found, it prints list of changes and then asks you
if you want to download it. So, that's pretty much what you want except
that you don't have to wait for the browser to start and close it
afterwards, and download/unzip the update. I think it's always good to
save time and effort :-).

> 
>> Code that does automatic updating is very tricky.  There are too
>> many potential security holes in it.  The only way I've seen
>> it done that seems safe is with some sort of crypto signatures,
>> but even that has its own problems.  (Eg, is the secret key on the
>> machine accessible to the world?)
> 
> This is one of the few relatively simple parts of an automated update
> process. Who cares if the downloaded update is intercepted and read? What
> you want to verify is that it is valid when received - i.e. sent from a
> valid source, not garbled and not tampered with. Signing is what is wanted
> in this case.

Umm, I believe what Andrew meant here is that signatures should be used to
check that the file is authentic, i.e. it's not trojaned. Obviously,
someone intercepting and reading that file is not a problem since it's a
public download, anyway :P

> 
> So, build a public key into the downloader application, and encrypt the
> content to download with the corresponding private key. Part of the content
> should include a checksum (if you're particularly paranoid, several
> checksums using different algorithms in different places in the stream). If
> the checksum(s) match the data, you can be pretty damn sure that you got
> what you requested, and that it came from a valid source.
> 
> For secure downloads, have the downloading application send the server a
> one-off public key with which to encrypt the data stream. Then decrypt with
> the server's public key (removing signing) and the one-off private key.
> Still not perfect, since at the very least you need to keep the data used to
> generate the one-off public and private keys in memory until the download is
> complete, but there aren't going to be very many people who (a) can get that
> data out of your machine and (b) have the algorithm to generate the public
> and private keys required...
> 
> I now expect some crypto experts to slap me with a big fish ...
> 
> Tim Delaney

Interesting.. I think maybe I should put a warning in the README that
enabling auto-update may be a security risk if my server is cracked, so if
the system has secrets on it, user must disable the feature. With
signatures, even, private signature also can be compromised.. but then
again, even if there is no auto-update, someone can just crack the server
and replace tarball with a trojan (and then post an update to freshmeat
for good measure!). 


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 13 23:36:38 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:36:38 -0400
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>
Message-ID: <3B789CC6.2FD7FFB5@engcorp.com>

Juan Huertas wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> My pc has a DAT tape (Windows 2000 Tape0) and i need to read the content of
> a tape with unix format, using low level I'ts possible to read from the
> device inside python?.
> 
> I try:
> 
> dat=open('\\.\Tape0','rb').read()
> 
> but the system does not open the file (ilegal file name: \\.\Tape0).

Why did you believe \.\TAPE0 was a valid file name in the first 
place?  I don't know W2K, but under previous versions of that 
operating system that file name is just equivalent to \TAPE0, 
meaning it would have to look like a file in the root directory 
(of the current drive, maybe C:, maybe not).  I'm not expert on 
tape drives under W2K, but I suspect that's not the case.
This may not be a Python question, unless you can successfully
access the drive as a file using some other program.  Can 
you just use "TYPE \\.\TAPE0" and get something?  I doubt it.

Or is this a way of referring to a shared device named \TAPE0
under the current computer (using \\. instead of \\COMPUTERNAME)?
I've never seen that before, and it isn't valid under W98.

I'm also suspicious as to whether a DAT tape under W2K would
look like a file at all.  Usually Windows tape drives end
up being available only through special device drivers to
applications which know about tapes.  *Unix* is prone to 
making all things look like files, so maybe you've taken
what was a valid path under Unix and tried to use it under
W2K?  (i.e. the original device was addressed as /./tape0 
under Unix?)  That wouldn't work either.

I don't like posting something so fundamentally unhelpful, 
but nobody else beat me to it ... :)


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Wed Aug  1 12:44:15 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:44:15 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <ohM97.57080$EP6.13418898@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.996644762.27218.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fccgmtonge71c2g83h5q51tv1r0bv7jlal@4ax.com>

>I haven't seen more than that single second-hand claim (except for Joe's
>charming belief that if he repeats it often enough, Guido will get pissed
>off enough to make it a reality now and for free <wink>).

Oh, God. I've been found out. I think I better go run and hide now. :-)

C//



From digitig at cix.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 16:58:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <memo.20010803215850.16469f@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <cp4rrz5onj.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, 
guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum) wrote:

> Here's a completely revised version of PEP 238.  It contains a long
> motivational section, a clear specification of what will happen, and a
> discussion of rejected alternatives, a list of open issues, a Q-and-A
> section etc..  I hope it answers most questions that have been raised
> about this issue.  I'd be happy to revise it if there are still things
> unclear.

<snip>

Just a quick reminder that the reason I can't get any sysadmin to let me 
use Python is that all the ones I encounter consider Python too unstable 
for serious work. I see their point :-(


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 05:50:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:50:50 +0200
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
References: <mailman.999244847.23762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mnmlq0296j@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.999244847.23762.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> >     I'm writing a web crawler as an exercise, using urllib and htmllib
to
> > recursively crawl through the pages. Whenever urllib.urlopen() throws an
> > IOError exception the url gets flagged as a broken link.
> >
> >     Unfortunately, urllib.urlopen() is blocking for some time on one
URL. When
> > I do an nslookup on it, it times out within a few seconds, since it's a
URL
> > from our internal intranet at work and is not accessible from the
internet.
> > However, urllib.urlopen() takes forever to return.
> >
> >     Is there a way to specify a timeout for this library? I can't find a
way
> > in the documentation.
>
>    There is no. This is actually TCP/IP problem. There are many solutions:
> signals (unfortunately, signals are sinchronous in Python),
multiprocessing
> (forking or threading), non-blocking sockets (select/poll, asyncore).

Probably the best solution in Python is using
http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py


Alex





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 09:54:21 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:54:21 -0500
Subject: bsddb module woes
In-Reply-To: <01082913242402.01463@ike>
References: <01082912524400.01463@ike>
        <01082913180901.01463@ike>
        <01082913242402.01463@ike>
Message-ID: <15244.62477.599318.899932@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> I found some hints from people having similar problems. They suggest
    >> using db_dump185 and db_load to convert the db files. My problem is:
    >> 
    >> % db_dump185 nodes.user
    >> db_dump185: nodes.user: Invalid argument
    >> 
    >> We're now going to try to dump the dbs using a system with redhat 6.2
    >> installed...

    Richard> And this has solved our problems. But there's got to be a
    Richard> better way than this... blech

Richard,

Sleepycat's dump/load program names leave a bit to be desired.  Sounds like
you were migrating from libdb2 to libdb3.  I think you want db2_dump
followed by db_load.  db_dump185 is for dumping a libdb1 database.  Assuming
you are running bash with command line completion enabled, try typing "db2_"
or "db_", then hitting the TAB key.  You should see a number of interesting
db_* and db2_* programs:

    % db_
    db_archive     db_dump        db_printlog    db_upgrade     
    db_checkpoint  db_dump185     db_recover     db_verify      
    db_deadlock    db_load        db_stat        
    % db2_
    db2_archive     db2_deadlock    db2_load        db2_recover
    db2_checkpoint  db2_dump        db2_printlog    db2_stat

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mra at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 17:47:13 2001
From: mra at pobox.com (Mark Atwood)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:47:13 -0700
Subject: Something like Perl's -c flag?
Message-ID: <m3u1yn52ce.fsf@flash.localdomain>

Does the Python interpreter have anything like Perl's -c flag, which
does a static syntax and sanity check without actually running the
script?

-- 
Mark Atwood   | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker.
mra at pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 16:21:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:21:42 -0400
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290546160.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEMOLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]
> I am using the following blecherous code to do a conversion from
> char*s in the form "<a>=<b>" to the form {'<a>':(tuple of '<b>'s), ...}.
> I'm sure that there's probably a more straightforward way out there.
> Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can simplifiy this?

Ya, write it in Python -- coding in C is a PITA.  If you need to do it in C
for speed (whatever), don't be afraid of gotos!  The Python implementation
has many examples of this, jumping to an error label at the end when things
go wrong "in the middle".

> ...
>   PyObject *dict=NULL, *list=NULL;
> ...
>   i=0;
>   while(PyDict_Next(dict, &i, &key, &val))
>   {
>     PyDict_SetItem(result, key, PyList_AsTuple(val));
>   };
>
>   return result;
> };

It looks like you're letting dict leak in the normal case, and gotos help
prevent mistakes like that too.

      initialize PyObject* temp thingies to NULL, and result

...

	if (something_bad_happened) {
		*maybe* set an exception;
            goto error;
      }

...

	while(PyDict_Next(dict, &i, &key, &val)) {
		PyDict_SetItem(result, key, PyList_AsTuple(val));
	goto normal_return;

error:
	Py_XDECREF(result);
      result = NULL;
      /* fall through */
normal_return:
	Py_XDECREF(dict);
      ...
      Py_XDECREF(other_temps);
      return result;

practicality-beats-purity-ly y'rs  - tim


BTW, in cases like this:

    val=PyString_FromString(equals+1);
    if (val==NULL)
    {
      PyErr_SetString(MyError, "Something else most blecherous happened!");
      Py_XDECREF(dict);
      Py_XDECREF(result);
      return NULL;
    };

PyString_FromString will already have set an appropriate exception
explaining the difficulty, so it's more work *and* usually harmful to make
up your own msg (proof:  just *read* your msg above <wink>).

Follow the advice above and this whole block reduces to

	val = PyString_FromString(equals+1);
	if (val == NULL)
		goto error;




From news at aegis.mailshell.com  Wed Aug  1 11:09:25 2001
From: news at aegis.mailshell.com (news at aegis.mailshell.com)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 15:09:25 GMT
Subject: Threading question
Message-ID: <9k9635$hli$1@news.netmar.com>

In the following code snippet, is the if statement redundant?
It seems to make no difference whether its there or not.

thread1.start()
thread2.start()
thread3.start()
thread4.start()

if threading.currentThread().getName() == 'MainThread':
    thread1.join()
    thread2.join()
    thread3.join()
    thread4.join()

TIA

Daniel.





 -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----
  http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups
   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts
made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse at newsone.net


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Aug 18 02:24:56 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 06:24:56 GMT
Subject: Case Sensitivity: Survey Results
Message-ID: <ag1snt8m0n40elhc9obctcevhvr4itad5c@4ax.com>

In response to this message:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-July/054788.html

which continued the discussion about case sensitivity in the Python
language, I announced my intention to conduct a survey of computer
science teachers on this issue, here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-July/055020.html

The survey is now complete and results are available.
I received a total of 129 responses. 

For summaries and to read the actual responses, you can go here:
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/computers/case/casesurvey.html

My take on the whole thing, is this:

The overwhelming majority of teachers surveyed on this topic felt it was
a non-issue (well over 80% of them). They felt that students have either
little or no difficulty due to case-sensitivity.

Perhaps, if one were designing a language from scratch (which is no
longer the case with Python), it would be reasonable to adopt
case-insensitivity. It seems there is little benefit to be derived from
case-sensitivity (although some respondents felt that precision in
approach and thinking, richness in language and naming choices, plus
compiler efficiency made sensitivity preferable). So, in the interest of
generating fewer error messages, insensitivity may be preferable.

However, given that this was felt to be an extremely minor issue, I see
no reason to entertain the issue of changing an already existing
programming language either from case-sensitive to case-insensitive or
vice-versa. There would be little to be gained, and certainly it would
not justify backward compatibility issues with already existing code.
Time would be better spent developing better error messages, or more
friendly programming environments for the beginner.

As I said, that is my take on this issue, and I feel that it is
supported by the survey results.

More details on the results of the survey, including all responses to
the survey, are online here:
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/computers/case/casesurvey.html

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 17 17:44:01 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:44:01 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
In-Reply-To: <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <001901c12765$bb344670$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

> i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure.
> seems kinda alot of work just to get a constant. even perl
> has "use constant" and thats about the ugliest language around :)

The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
enough for you.




From ralf.muschall at alphasat.de  Thu Aug 23 16:41:16 2001
From: ralf.muschall at alphasat.de (Ralf Muschall)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 22:41:16 +0200
Subject: MSDOS/Windows program files
References: <bSJf7.10307$_q.197656@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net> <3B7FC7D7.E91828E@engcorp.com> <_HQg7.10$2a.4483@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <u7u1yybjbn.fsf@hpeesof.asc>

"Aaron Brown" <arundelo at mediaone.net> writes:

> input("Spam?"
> 
> So the interpreter was just waiting around for that trailing
> parenthesis.

A common trick to detect such bugs in languages without semantic
indenting is to reformat the whole source (C-x h C-M-\).  All lines
below the error are then rightshifted, making the bad place stand out.

Is there any trick to do something like this automatically in Python?

Ralf


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 24 11:15:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:15:30 -0500
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
In-Reply-To: <7934d084.0108231917.6a0af00e@posting.google.com>
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
        <3b8438f6.196472081@wa.news.verio.net>
        <3B84B46D.9B6831EF@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
        <7934d084.0108231917.6a0af00e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15238.28562.217581.208469@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    >> Hey, that sounds rather good to me. I'll think about the database,
    >> too.  But somehow I like this 'homemade' approach a little
    >> better. ;-)

    Andrae> Now my curiosity is piqued.  Why would you possibly prefer the
    Andrae> non-standard, probably less efficient, more complicated, and
    Andrae> probably buggier "write your own database" solution over the far
    Andrae> simpler "use dbm/msql"?

I'll offer why I went so long before switching from a homegrown database to
MySQL.  For a long time I used libdb with my own homegrown query system
thrown on top of it.  Performance was and still is the prime consideration.
I switched to MySQL about a year ago and have been trying to regain my old
performance levels ever since.  I switched for two reasons: generality and
maintainability.  I was able to toss out a lot of code and now have a system
that is both much easier to extend and much better normalized (in the
database sense of the term).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 26 06:23:15 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:23:15 GMT
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
References: <mailman.998710897.9089.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b88ccb5.496439822@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:40:00 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter]
>> But an md5 check settles it even more definitely ;-).
>
>The fellow was on Windows 95 and couldn't install Python, and didn't sound
>like the type who might be running Cygwin too.  Therefore he probably has no
>straightforward way to compute an md5 checksum.  If he comes back and says
>the size-check matched, we can deal with that then.  But *most* times this
>comes up the size-check fails, and then he's on the right path after a few
>seconds.
>
I grant you that most download problems are going to cause size changes,
but I still get a warm feeling seeing an md5 match, for security's sake.

It wouldn't be that hard to gin up a little stand-alone .exe to do
what md5sum.py does. (I have one that I made from Peter Deutch's
implementation of md5. I hacked his md5 into a C++ class that I used for
the utility). But for python, I guess it would make sense to use the
md5c.c version. Of course, someone has probably done it already.


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Aug  9 11:16:13 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:16:13 +0200
Subject: Searchable python documentation
References: <9ktu83$9bn$1@s1.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <3B72A93D.3404439C@lemburg.com>

Tom Huckstep wrote:
> 
> Is there any searchable python documentation, that performs
> a bit like man, so I could do
> 
> $ pyman compile
> 
> and it would show me the documentation for the builtin
> function compile?
> 
> If not I am thinking of writing a couple of programs to
> perform that task:  one to make an index of the HTML
> module documentation, and another to search through it and
> invoke a web browser when it finds what you want.
> 
> I don't want to duplicate anyone's work though.  Does this
> kind of thing exist already?  If it doesn't, does anyone
> have any thoughts or comments on my idea?

Have a look at Ping's pydoc which is in Python 2.1. 

He's also written a web-interface for it:

	http://web.pydoc.org/

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH
______________________________________________________________________
Consulting & Company:                           http://www.egenix.com/
Python Software:                        http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 21:21:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:21:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: COM/CORBA/DCOP (was: Hello people. I have some questions)
In-Reply-To: <7xsne7en0r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108312119440.4535-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 31 Aug 2001, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I don't know anything about DCOP but my guess is that it's closer to
> COM than CORBA.  Most people considered CORBA too heavyweight for
> connecting desktop apps and were surprised that ORBit (the Gnome ORB)
> was able to get as good performance as it does.

The difference was that MICO (KDE's ORB) was written in C++, while ORBit is
written in C. ORBit has been tweaked and honed to death, whereas they could
only do so much for MICO.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 00:32:00 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
In-Reply-To: <iiiootolefoi0bseo1kk8g4lsgo6vrr2u7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290027530.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
> <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.999043423.30546.python-list at python.org>:
>
>  [snip]
>
> :Also, you should make it so that the file is immediately opened in __init__(),
>
> Why? I don't see any persuasive reason for that. The methods that I'm
> using under windows don't allow for me to separate the action of opening
> the file and obtaining the lock (there is a single command which does
> both), and I wanted to keep the functions between the windows and the
> posix versions as close to parallel as possible. In any case, I can't
> see any compelling reason for the file opening to occur in the init
> function.

I just finished talking with a friend who's done more recent Win32 development
than me, and he claims that you can reopen the file (without closing it) using
the aforementioned API function again in order to apply a lock. It sounds
fishy to me too, but it might be worth a shot.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 30 00:37:27 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:37:27 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com> <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet> <3B882E32.41643FEB@engcorp.com> <tojcikaodsah75@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3B8DC307.CCC77337@engcorp.com>

John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> > Lines indented twelve characters
> > should have four spaces and a TAB (not three TABs).
> 
> I presume you meant a tab and four spaces, no? According
> to your definition (which I snipped above), four spaces and
> a tab should result in an indent of 8, not 12. 

Definitely!  Good eye. :-)


From smt at pacific.net.hk  Mon Aug 27 22:34:12 2001
From: smt at pacific.net.hk (Kenneth Tsang)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:34:12 +0800
Subject: newbie: activepython extensions, win32, COM
Message-ID: <9mf02r$1c8$1@hfc.pacific.net.hk>

Hi, I am a newbie in Python and is now testing out some windows programming
using wxPython. I am currently going through the wxPython from O'Reilly, and
found that COM support in windows is required.

Please advice which of the extension I need to download/install, thanks.

Currently I am using
a)Python 2.1.1 download from python.org
b)wxpython

I have also seen support from ActivePython(as below), however, please advice
which of the following I need to download, I believe it's either the first
or second one...Thanks.

ActivePython Extensions: win32all

win32all.exe, build 140 (3.5 Mb) (for use with PythonLabs Python 2.1)
win32all.exe, build 138 (3.5 Mb) (for use with BeOpen Python 2.0)
win32all.exe, build 136 (3.3 Mb) (for use with CNRI Python 1.5.2)
--

cheers, Kenneth
--
Kenneth Tsang
email: smt at pacific.net.hk tel: +852 9468 4772




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug  7 13:23:05 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:23:05 -0400
Subject: Marketing Management
References: <mailman.997201271.7361.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4sVb7.3856$C41.66941@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Sam Lo" <samlo at cyberway.com.sg> wrote in message
news:mailman.997201271.7361.python-list at python.org...
> Can someone solve this
>
> a) Explain the general orientation of your organization towards marketing,
> or your organization's overall attitudes and philosophies towards
marketing.
>
Python
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From ehooper at princesscruises.com  Thu Aug 23 14:14:59 2001
From: ehooper at princesscruises.com (Edward Hooper)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 11:14:59 -0700
Subject: Problems compiling Python 2.1.1 on SCO OpenServer 5.0.4
Message-ID: <2dc3b402.0108231014.466d3a34@posting.google.com>

I've managed to compile Python 2.1.1 on SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 (with GCC
2.95.2pl1 with the SCO libraries and headers) but I had to modify the
Makefile, several source files, and even some SCO and GCC header files
to get a clean build.

However, the makefile wants to build *ALL* of the modules as sharable
object binaries even though *shared* is commented out of Modules/Setup
and many of the modules are commented out so they won't build.  I've
traced it to a Python script called setup.py.  For some reason this
script is called after Python has been built, and ignores Setup since
I didn't want to build _cursesmodule and this script insists on doing
it.  Is the script buggy?

I don't know Python that well, I'm just building it to get _tkinter
since the Python package (version 1.5.2) available from SCO doesn't
support it.  <sigh>

Thanks in advance,

Edward Hooper


From dougfort at dougfort.net  Tue Aug  7 11:26:10 2001
From: dougfort at dougfort.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 16:26:10 +0100
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit



Lad wrote:



> Hi,

> Does UrlLib (any other)module support cookies? An example is

> mail.yahoo.com where I must first sign-in and then cookies are return

> for this session and only then I can read my mails.

> Thanks for help.

> Ladislav

> 



Cookies are just HTTP headers, urllib and httplib don't get involved at 

that level. There's a 'Cookie' module in the Python library. It's for 

server-side cookie handling, which I don't think you're interested in. 

However, it's worth reading. I've attached the code we use for cookies at 

www.stressmy.com.

-- 

Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>

http://www.dougfort.net
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: cookiecontainer.py
Type: text/x-java
Size: 10360 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010807/1a2c1c20/attachment.java>

From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 00:32:45 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:32:45 -0400
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org> <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <md_i7.64754$54.3474837@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:toopvfbr30t45d at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.999031543.25940.python-list at python.org...
> > On 28 Aug 2001, Bryan Olson wrote:
> >
> > > I've done a Google search and found that others have had the same
> > > problem I'm having.  Any upgrade of Python, even from 2.0 to 2.1,
breaks
> > > extension modules.  I'm working on MS-Windows, and the extension
cannot
> > > find python20.dll, which is not surprising because it was replace with
> > > python21.dll.  I suppose I could put back the old DLL, but I don't
know
> > > what that would do, since the rest of the system is using the newer
DLL.
> > >
> > > I don't the workings of Windows DLL's are to blame; Unix shared
> > > libraries would have the same problem.
> >
> > Actually they don't. In the Unix version the .so's link back to the
> > executable; presumably they don't do that in Windows. Does anyone know
> why?
>
> Yes, as a matter of fact. The design goals for Unix and Windows were
totally
> different. Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so
> modules are private resources once they're loaded. Under Windows, they
> are shared resources - the same physical memory copy can be used
> simultaniously by multiple users, and appears in multiple address spaces.
> Consequently, it's impossible for them to link back. Also, much of the
> thinking that went into the mechanisms came from CORBA, where they
> wanted to run an application on one system, and link to a module on
> another system.
>
OK, I'll bite. Aren't the *.so files shared libraries, and the *.a files the
ones which are linked in statically. I may not know much about this, but I
*do* remember Sun introducing *.so files as a way of ensuring that large
libraries (SunTools was the worst offender) could be loaded in once by the
kernel and shared between many processes.

When a program is linked against a shared library, a record is kept of the
major and minor version numbers. This work predated CORBA by a good few
years, but as you say the problems are essentially the same.
> > > If the interface to Python extensions actually changed, then certainly
> > > there's no avoiding updating the extensions.  The current system is
much
> > > worse; any upgrade to Python breaks extensions, in many cases
> > > needlessly.
> > >
> > > I don't think that giving different versions of dynamic libraries the
> > > same name, such as "python.dll", is a good idea.  It would just cause
> > > other problems.
> >
> > Not nearly as many problems as 5 different versions of msvcrt40.dll ;)
> >
Of course the *.so files are versioned, which makes it somewhat easier to
avoid DLL hell, because a program will request a library version of "at
least" some value. You can, if I remember correctly, load any shared library
with the right major version number and a minor version  number greater than
or equal to the version the program was linked against. And you can have
several major versions present at the same time. Took Microsoft a while
longer to catch on to versioning (amateurs :-).

> > > So here's my proposal for a solution: don't make the extension load
the
> > > library.  When the interpreter loads the extension, it should give it
a
> > > pointer through which it can find all the library objects. The pointer
> > > could just be the system-dependent library pointer/handle, but more
> > > elegant would be a table of functions, defined the same on all
> > > platforms.
>
> I agree. This would solve the problem rather neatly.
>
> > What should happen is that the extensions under Windows should have the
> same
> > behaviour as extensions on Unix; they should reach back to the
executable
> for
> > run-time bindings. IIRC, the DllMain() function is passed the handle of
> the
> > executable when the DLL is loaded; at that point the bindings should be
> done.
>
> As I mentioned above, it can't be done, at least without implementing a
> completely
> independent loader. I'd much rather see development resources go to
> something
> more useful.
>
> > > I think the change could be made without forcing code changes to
> > > extensions (though of course they'd need one last re-compile).  We
just
> > > have to change the statically-linked stubs library.  We need one
> > > function that always gets linked in, and that the interpreter will
call
> > > with the function-table pointer.  The utility functions that the
library
> > > offers would be stubs that get the function pointers from the table,
and
> > > call through them.
> > >
> > > Of course we should think this through and try to find a way to
> > > negotiate versions, so that extensions last as long as possible.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this idea PEP-worthy?
>
> Go for it. Anything that saves me from having to distribute a new version
> of extension DLLs when it's technically unnecessary is a great idea.
>
If you can pull this off it would be of value to many people unconnected
with the Python world, too.

Of course, Microsoft's solution is to migrate to .NET, where you can have
umpteen different versions of just about anything.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 23 09:39:30 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:39:30 +0200
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
Message-ID: <3B8927BB@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> =====
>Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?
>
>        [f(x) for x in a]
>
>just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
>to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,
>
>        map(lambda x: f(x), a).
>
>Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
>is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
>the language.

Interesting... one of the reasons to add this was because it was thought to be 
more readable than the functional stuff (map, filter, lambda)... :) Sometimes 
it is. Compare:

>>> [x*2+1 for x in range(10) if x % 2]
[3, 7, 11, 15, 19]
>>> map(lambda x: x*2+1, filter(lambda x: x%2, range(10)))
[3, 7, 11, 15, 19]

I think the first one is clearer, but that's largely a matter of preference. 
Sometimes I use a listcomp, sometimes a simple map will do. I think that this 
feature was added to provide an alternative to lambda/map and friends, which 
encourage obfuscation. (If this was the case, it's incomplete, methinx... 
there's no alternative for 'reduce'.)

Regards,

--Hans Nowak




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 25 23:25:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:25:42 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBELIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Sheila King]
> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?

msvcrt directly exposes some library functions supplied by, and unique to,
Microsoft.  So, like it or not (I don't like it myself <wink>), Microsoft is
the only entity who can answer questions about them with authority.  FWIW,
the docs MS supplied with MSVC 6 say their _locking function works under
"Win 95, Win NT", which *usually* means "everything after Win 3.1".

Also as usual, the functions MS provides as part of their C library are a
feeble subset of what you can do by using the Win32 API directly, in this
case by using the Win32 LockFile and LockFileEx functions.  I don't know
whether win32all exposes those specific functions; core Python does not.

> I thought I understood what I was doing. I had tested a bit of file
> locking stuff.
>
> I opened up two separate MSDOS console windows, and tried acquiring
> locks and releasing locks, etc...
>
> [seemingly successful stuff snipped]

> NOW, why doesn't this class that I've written work without error?
>
> Here is the class:
> ---------------(begin winLock module)--------------------
> ''' winLock.py
>
> class lockobject
> supports the same function calls as
> posixLock.lockobject
> export to lockobject.py: a wrapper module
> around the win and posix lockobjects
> '''
> import os, msvcrt
>
> modes = {'write':msvcrt.LK_RLCK, 'read':msvcrt.LK_NBLCK,\
>          'unlock':msvcrt.LK_UNLCK}
>
> class lockobject:
>     def _lockoperation(self, lockfilename, mode):
>         size = os.path.getsize(lockfilename)
>         f = open(lockfilename, 'r')
>         f.seek(0)
>         msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), modes[mode], size)

My guess is that's why:  in your interactive sessions, you kept the file
open.  In the _lockoperation method above, the file will be closed
implicitly under CPython the instant _lockoperation returns (because the
refcount on f falls to 0 then, and an open file object is closed by the file
object's destructor).  The MS _locking docs say:

    Regions should be locked only briefly and should be unlocked before
    closing a file or exiting the program.

So if you leave locks sitting around when a file is closed, the behavior is
undefined.  I happen to get the same error from this program:

import os, msvcrt

NAME = 'empty.txt'

size = os.path.getsize(NAME)
f = open(NAME, 'r')
msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)

C:\Code\python\PCbuild>python mlock.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "mlock.py", line 7, in ?
    msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), msvcrt.LK_UNLCK, size)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied

In other words, it's acting the same as if the file had never been locked.

> ...
> Now, why am I getting this Permission denied error?

The MS docs aren't clear, but what you're trying to do goes beyond even the
little they do say will work.

> ...
> (OK, I did put a seek(0) command in there. It didn't used to be there
> and I was getting the same error, so I though maybe I should set the
> file pointer to the beginning of the file each time?

The file pointer is always 0 immediately after an open for read, so the seek
wasn't needed; but it shouldn't hurt either.

> ...
> If someone can give me some tips here, I'd really appreciate it.

Cross-platform file-locking is extremely difficult, in part because Python
is coded in C and C defines no facilities for doing it.  I don't know why
you're trying to lock files, but the evidence suggests you're trying to use
msvcrt.locking for something it was never intended to do (it was intended
for programs like databases, where multiple threads and even processes
cooperatively both read and write to a single file, and sometimes need
exclusive access for brief periods of time to small regions of the file --
that's why there's a "size" argument).





From blong at fiction.net  Mon Aug 20 19:08:37 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:08:37 -0700
Subject: problem with embedded python
Message-ID: <20010820160837.A29560@pulp>

I'm using PyApache 4.22 with Apache 1.3.20.  I've looked at PyApache
4.25, and it doesn't appear to have any real changes except support for
Apache 2.x.  It is compiled against Python 2.1.

The usage case is that every apache request creates a new interpreter
with Py_NewInterpreter(), the code is run, and then the interpreter is
destroyed with Py_EndInterpreter().

The first request per Apache process works fine.  The second one failes
to import site because of exceptions during import os.

These exceptions are expected, but as near as I can tell, the exceptions
don't match anymore.  Ie, os.py as 'except AttributeError', but that
fails to catch the raised AttributeError.  When I change that line to
just 'except:', it catches the exception, and then fails later to catch
a NameError exception that it should.

I've used PyApache extensively with both python 1.5.1 and 1.5.2.  I
notice that now the exception module is actually a C module, and the
above behavior reminds me of trouble I've had with Python C modules
where something is initialized twice, and then the pointer matches don't
match.  I'm not familiar enough with how exceptions work in the
interpreter to figure this out, however.  Py_Initialize() looks like it
is only called once, and Py_Finalize() hasn't been called yet.

Any ideas?

Brandon
-- 
 "pretty code isn't always the right thing to do.  people spend much 
  more time reading mail than looking at the source code." 
   -- Michael Elkins, mutt author
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 17:18:46 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:18:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
In-Reply-To: <too1d5n5hkqp76@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281715520.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Maan M. Hamze wrote:

> or of course you can use:
> print '<input type="hidden" name=',VAR1,'>'
> As you see, you should not include your variable in the string because it
> will be treated just like another string.

Ack! Using a comma in print will result in a space. But it's wrong anyways.
Use the following instead:

---
print '<input type="hidden" name="VAR1" value="%s">' % VAR1
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug 15 09:08:38 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:08:38 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Module Name
In-Reply-To: <3689.010815@storm.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108151706310.18202-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Kerim Borchaev wrote:
> Isn't it odd that "reply-to" for messages from this list is not
> python-list at python.org?

   "Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful.
   http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 05:13:29 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:13:29 +0200
Subject: Sorting Lists
References: <lSh77.64029$2V.13507417@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <0bj77.544176$eK2.114166570@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <9jm8re$a1c$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <wk7kwxvth7.fsf@mail.connact.com> <9jt3l9$bo2$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9kb5jo028a2@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tom Bryan" <tbryan at python.net> wrote in message
news:9jt3l9$bo2$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
    ...
> Of course, I never claimed that it was faster.  One simply avoids
> copying the list and sorts in place rather than returning a sorted
> copy of the list. :-)

If you don't like returning a sorted copy, just do:

def modify_in_place(alist, func_returning_a_copy, *whatever_else,
**kwds_too):
    alist[:] = func_returning_a_copy(alist, *whatever_else, **kwds_too)

oh, and, for completeness, the adapter in the other direction:

def return_a_copy(alist, func_modifying_in_place, *whatever_else,
**kwds_too):
    thecopy = alist[:]
    func_modifying_in_place(thecopy, *whatever_else, **kwds_too)
    return thecopy

It's cooler to do it in a functional programming style, of course -- get
a callable with the semantics you dislike (inplace/returning-copy) and
return a callable with the other semantics (returning-copy/inplace).
But that would get us into often-debated issues (such currying & wrapping
is much easier when taking advantage of nested scopes, etc, etc).


Alex





From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Aug  3 17:00:25 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:00:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108031620440.334-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108031643320.334-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>



... and if you define an __or__ method ( "|" operator), you can make it
look   more like a real unix pipeline :

class Gen:
        def __init__( self, generator ):
                self.generator = generator
        def __iter__( self ):
                return self.generator

class Genpipe(Gen):
        def Test( self, pred ):
                self.generator = Test( self.generator, pred )
                return self
        def Count( self, n ):
                self.generator = Count( self.generator, n )
                return self
        def __or__( self, other ):
                if callable(other):
                        self.generator = Test( self.generator, other )
                        return self 

		# not an all-the-options-complete implementation!



>>> for x in Genpipe(Files('.')).Count( 100 ) | isGif : 
...     print x



I find the separation by space-operator-space to make it more readable,
but I think that overriding of the __or__ operator might be a bit
confusing -- If anything an __and__ ( "&" ) or a shift ">>" might
make a but more logical sense. 


Perhaps "+" should be concatenation of generators: 

	gen1 + gen2 + gen3 

means do gen1 until empty, then gen2, ...

"|" could be alternation: one from column (generator) A, one from column B

We need one for the generator equivalent of 'zip' :

	genA <op> genB 

generates (A0,B0), (A1,B1), (A2,B2), ... 



-- Steve 




From wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com  Sat Aug 11 20:49:09 2001
From: wim.delvaux at adaptiveplanet.com (wim delvaux)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:49:09 GMT
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
Message-ID: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com>

Hi all,

just looking at python and wondering if I could integrate it.

While thinking I was wondering if one could determine the type of a
PyObject

Example : calling from python

Mod.Function( 1234 )
Mod.Function( "string" );

So Function should be callable with 2 different types (kind of
overloading)

in C  (Making abstraction of a lot of other stuff )

Mod_Function( PyObject *self, PyObject *args )  {

          PyObject * FirstArg;

           if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "o", &FirstArg ))
               return NULL;

          /* And then something like */

          if( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == String ) {
              char * String;
              PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "s", &String );
          } else if ( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == Integer ) {
              long IVal;
              PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "i", &IVal);
          } else {
              return NULL;
          }
}

What would be the correct Python Library code to implement the above
pseudo code

Thanx

W




From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 02:23:02 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:23:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python 2.1.1-3 RPMs updated with LFS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108310957140.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310221180.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Roman Suzi wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sean Reifschneider wrote:
>
> Hi, Sean!
>
> I have problems with your src.rpms on my RedHat 6.2.
>
> expat.src.rpm doesnt produce required expat-devel and thus I can't satisfy
> that dependency. Also it would be nice if rpms were universal accross
> RedHat 5.x-7.x. I just do not know where to find right expat rpms.
> I know, lacking expat-devel is RedHat's fault.
>
> Same problem with db1.
>
> Do you have plans making at least RH 6.x compatible src RPMs?
> (see "compiling Python 2.1.1" thread in c.l.p. several days ago)
>
> Thank you!

Use these:

  ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/SRPMS/SRPMS/expat-1.95.1-7.src.rpm
  ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/SRPMS/SRPMS/python2-2.1.1-2.src.rpm

The Python RPM will need to be modified for LFS, but other than that they
should work fine on 6.2 and up.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Fri Aug  3 09:42:30 2001
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:42:30 GMT
Subject: PyQt for win32
References: <3B6A3635.9BF5981E@telocity.com> <3b6a6ab2$0$31962$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <4a249347.0108030443.5cc95599@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aTxa7.120$x22.3276@nreader1.kpnqwest.net>

I've read on PyQt mailing list that there will be again a "precompiled"
windows version of PyQt based on the new
windows license. (as long ago!)

The PyQt 2.4 or even 2.5pre4 does not compile properly with the library
furnished by trolltech with their new license...
PyQt authors are beginning "right now" to study the problem...so we all need
to be patience ;(

Cheers
Paolo Invernizzi
DMSWare


"Robert" <bobh at hslda.org> wrote in message
news:4a249347.0108030443.5cc95599 at posting.google.com...
> I would like just the binaries as well...but I am waiting for someone
> who has the compiler.
>
> Bob




From jschmitt at vmlabs.com  Fri Aug  3 13:50:35 2001
From: jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:50:35 -0700 
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
Message-ID: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67F9@eden.vmlabs.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: paul at boddie.net [mailto:paul at boddie.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:18 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Is it new style or just lack of style?
> 
> 
> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.996819245.9680.python-list at python.org>...
> > Hello!
> > 
> > More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> > blanks in ( ).
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
> > Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
> > with the same ugly padding...
> 
> I first saw it employed in Java and C++ programs some time ago. I
> suspect it has more to do with the usage of poor text editing software
> than anything else; that is, software which isn't well-suited to
> editing programs.
[...]

Not in my case it isn't.  I love that formatting style.  It seems that I can
see what's what with just a quick glance.

Whitespace is beautiful and my code is art! :-)

>From my web page ( http://www.geocities.com/nuonguy/ ):

"We should be willing to look at the source code we produce not as the
end product of a more interesting process, but as an artifact in its
own right. It should look good stuck up on the wall."
   - Alan & Colston's "The Programmer's Stone"

if __name__ == '__main__':
	sys.exit( main( sys.argv[0], sys.argv[1:] ) )

Function definitions can also be made more beautiful.  I've always done this
kind of thing in C way before the blessed day I encountered Python.

If I have a function that takes a few arguments, I lay it out like this:

def foo\
(
    argument1,    # meaninful comments
    argument2,
):
    # more beautiful code here

or in C, line up the types and variables in easy-to-read columns:

void foo
(
    DataType       meaninful_variable,  // meaninful comment goes here
    int            var1,                // meaninful comment goes here
    char           var2,                // meaninful comment goes here
    OpaqueDataType var3                 // meaninful comment goes here
)
{
    // more beautful code
}



From BUBBAJETHRO at PRODIGY.NET  Fri Aug 24 10:43:27 2001
From: BUBBAJETHRO at PRODIGY.NET (REBECCA GANDHEART)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:43:27 -0500
Subject: INTERNALANTENNAS.COM
Message-ID: <200108241547.f7OFlcr06714@ns2.elp.rr.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010824/bcafe594/attachment.html>

From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 29 02:54:30 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:54:30 +1000
Subject: [announce] Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.6
Message-ID: <01082916543003.01438@ike>

            Roundup 0.2.7 - an issue tracking system

This is predominantly a bugfix release.
Feature:
 . Text searches are now case insensitive. All forms of text search use
   regular expressions now.

Fixed:
 . Had another 2.1-ism in the unit tests
 . Made the mail parser a little more robust w.r.t missing Subject:
   (both thanks Mikhail Sobolev)
 . Missed some isFooType usages (thanks Mikhail Sobolev for spotting them)
 . Reverted back to sending change messages to the web editor of a node so
   that the change note message is actually generated.
 . CGI interface wasn't generating correct change messages.
 . Notes entered during a change are saved to the messages list even if
   there's no nosy list. No message is generated if there's no nosy list and
   there's no change note (since it would just duplicates the journal).
 . Completely removed the bsddb3 module from the tests - will be reinstated
   when the http://bsddb.sourceforge.net/'s bugs #439959 and #456408 are
   dealt with. One is fixed in CVS, the other pending.


Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with
command-line, web and e-mail interfaces. It is based on the winning design
from Ka-Ping Yee in the Software Carpentry "Track" design competition.

Note: Ping is not responsible for this project. The contact for this project
is richard at users.sourceforge.net.

Roundup manages a number of issues (with flexible properties such as 
"description", "priority", and so on) and provides the ability to
 (a) submit new issues, 
 (b) find and edit existing issues, and
 (c) discuss issues with other participants.
The system will facilitate communication among the participants by managing
discussions and notifying interested parties when issues are edited. One of
the major design goals for Roundup that it be simple to get going. Roundup
is therefore usable "out of the box" with any python 2.0+ installation. It
doesn't even need to be "installed" to be operational, though a
disutils-based install script is provided.

It comes with two issue tracker templates and three database back-ends.
Back-ends for relational databases are being developed.

Source is available at the website:
      http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/ 



From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Mon Aug  6 14:27:29 2001
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 14:27:29 -0400
Subject: why no ++?
In-Reply-To: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com>
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
	<PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
	<3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <87ae1d2gdq.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> writes:

> I'm not sure if anyone has explained the philosophical basis of "why no ++". 
> It's rooted in Tim Peters' maxim:
> 
>    There should be on--and preferably only one--obvious way to do things.
> 

Hmm.  I think I disagree.  If we had i++ (only the postfix version),
then the obvious way to do:

   i+=1
   func(i)

would become

   func(i++)

Much like with dict.setdefault() the obvious way to do

   if dict.has_key(key):
     return dict[key]
   else:
     dict[key]=value
     return value

becomes

   return dict.setdefault(key, value)

I had always thought the reason for not having i++ was because, in
general, each line of Python code can have at most one lvalue.

To state that another way, if something modifies a value it does not
generally also return a value.  This is evidenced by the following not
returning values:

num=num+num2
num+=1
del list[i1:i2]
list.sort()
list.reverse()
list.append(item)
list.extend(item)
list.remove(item)
dict[key]=value
dict.update(dict)
dict.clear()

In fact the only exceptions I can think of to this rule (in the core
language) are as follows

dict.popitem()
dict.setdefault(key, value)
list.pop(index)
several 'file' methods

All of which are explicitly designed for a specific instance where
modifying and returning offers a significant benefit over doing the
two operations separately.  I don't feel than i++ over i+=1 offers
this sort of significant benefit, so I would lobby against it being
added.


- -- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
Death comes to those who wait
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt

iEYEARECAAYFAjtu4ZEACgkQjVztv3T8pztIHQCbBo9o2q3fgbiTdl0NjYVve+9D
iCkAoKkM/cTQv6MK/DJKhrmcUe3OvCQH
=5hxz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk  Tue Aug 28 15:30:34 2001
From: spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:30:34 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <qgrgm9.prc.ln@127.0.0.1>

jeroen paul goudsmit <diedanootdie at danoot.com> wrote:
 : Hello people

 : I've heard about python and i thought that it coulb be a nice language for
 : me to use. is it true that it can be used in every O.S.?

Certainly not. I have yet to see python port for TOPS-10 :-) 

 : I'm programming in vb now, and i'd like to know if python looks a little
 : like it. If someone knows vb, can he translate this vb sentice into a python
 : sentice: naam =   inputbox ("What's your name?", vbokonly, "Hekllo")
 
That depends on GUI toolkit you want to use. Unlike vb, you can choose
from more of them, e.g. in tkinter it would be (more or less, if I
understand your vb example correctly):

naam=tkSimpleDialog.askstring( title="Hello",
                               prompt="Hoe heet je?")
 
 
 : Is python hard to learn? 

not at all
Though, as you are getting deeper and deeper, some things
will surprise you a bit - but nothing too serious.
 
 : And is there a dutch person in this group? 

You bet! the great Guido himself :-)
You did not know that python was meant to be a tool to
achieve dutch world supremacy? :-)
 
 : If there is one, can he/she tell me if there any dutch books about python.

Probably they can... 

 : Could you please answer my questions?
 
Yes.

 : Thanks.
 
You are welcome.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik  http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__         garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk       |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From fig at localhost.localdomain  Wed Aug  8 12:39:48 2001
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:39:48 -0000
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg> <5bZb7.46110$g_3.6706340@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2r7v.331.fig@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:36:01 GMT, alan runyan <runyaga at thisbox.com> wrote:
>
>but it can be Python.  http://sourceforge.net/projects/qos/
>
>this is the monitoring system that was used at egroups, iirc.  whats
>unfortunate is how hidden this project is ;(
>
>~runyaga

It looks like the project was registered over a year ago, but they
have not yet released any files.  That might be a good first step to
unhiding it.

Stephen


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 04:55:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:55:06 +0200
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com> <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org> <cpsnf090x8.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l07gd01rjn@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpsnf090x8.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
> Hm.  How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
> letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can

That would be wonderful, but I think it would still require a from
__future__
for one release.


Alex





From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sun Aug  5 07:43:26 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 11:43:26 GMT
Subject: Using import in an exec'ed string
References: <9kiqt1$5v3$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns90F44EA8AC6DDgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> I'm wondering why, if I give a customized globals
> and locals parameter to exec, import doesn't work
> anymore (that is, it doesn't anything to the namespace.):

 
> a="""
> import string
> 
> def f():
>      print string.split("aaa aaa")
> 
> f()"""
> 
> exec(a)

[works]

> exec(a, {}, {})

[fails - NameError on string inside f]

Nothing to do with import. This fails too:

a = """
x = 3
def f():
  print x
f()
"""
exec(a, {}, {})

But, this works:
d = {}
exec(a, d, d)

- Gordon




From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 31 09:48:06 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:48:06 GMT
Subject: Is 0 > None??
References: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com>
Message-ID: <qAMj7.156063$EP6.43986636@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Manus Hand" <manushand at home.com> wrote in message
news:3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED at home.com...
> It was in 1.5.1, but it wasn't in 1.5.2 or 2.0 or even (I think)
2.1.

Behavior of mixed-typed (non-numeric) comparisons is explicitly
*undefined*.  Only guarantee is consistency within release (or maybe
just within running program).  Reason for giving otherwise nonsensical
answer is so list.sort does not bomb and so heterogenous lists can be
sorted to 'canonical' form before being tuple-ized for use as dict
key.

> But it is again in 2.1.1.  Aauugghh!  Now I know that maybe I
shouldn't
> have written code that depends on where None compares to the integer
values,

Correct.

> but hey, it sure made for a very handy cmp() function!

I'm curious what you did to use such a dependency.

Terry J. Reedy





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 15:31:45 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:31:45 -0400
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
In-Reply-To: <9m5tmq$2oda$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENILHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Gillou]
> ...
> You need to be administrator to install on Win2K or Win NT.

FYI, at least on Win2K this should no longer be true, starting with the new
2.2a2 installer (released on Wednesday).  I've run successful Win2K 2.2a2
installs on a Win2K box under a plain default User (not Administrator, not
Power User) account.  In that case it installs the Python and MSVC DLLs
under the Python directory instead of in a system directory, and registers
file extensions under HKCU\Software\Classes instead of under HKCR (which
latter requires at least Power User privs under default 2K policies).

But I'm sure it will break again under Windows XP <0.5 wink>.




From deltapigz at telocity.com  Thu Aug 23 17:24:51 2001
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:24:51 -0400
Subject: question...
Message-ID: <3B8574A2.24C0886B@telocity.com>

how am i able to read a socket.recv() line by line instead of receving
it all bunched up? i have looked into the socket documentation and have
come up with makefile(); but how would i use it? is it the same as if i
were handling an open() statement? or something completely different?

thanks in advance.

Adonis



From billtut at microsoft.com  Wed Aug 29 02:14:39 2001
From: billtut at microsoft.com (Bill Tutt)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:14:39 -0700
Subject: Multithreading support for *win32* BaseHTTPServer
Message-ID: <58C671173DB6174A93E9ED88DCB0883D0433AE11@red-msg-07.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Actually, you can checkout the source code to edna (a simple MP3
streaming web server) to find a nice sample implmentation of a
multithreaded HTTP server, and a Win32 service.

You can find edna at: http://edna.sourceforge.net/

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerson Kurz [mailto:gerson.kurz at t-online.de] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:04 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Multithreading support for *win32* BaseHTTPServer


On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:03:53 -0400 (EDT), "Scherer, Bill"
<Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote:

>
>Try the following:
> [Source Snipped]

Neither your example nor the ones posted by the other folks seems to
work on Win32 (more specifically: ActivePython 2.1.0.210, Windows 2000
SP2) I get this for your example:

D:\Python21\Lib>testmtserver.py
serving on port 9999
Exception in thread Thread-1:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\threading.py", line 378, in __bootstrap
    self.run()
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\threading.py", line 366, in run
    apply(self.__target, self.__args, self.__kwargs)
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\SocketServer.py", line 246, in finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\SocketServer.py", line 495, in __init__
    self.handle()
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 258, in handle
    self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
  File "D:\Python21\Lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
    new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'

and a similar error message for the other two examples :( 

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From ljohnson at resgen.com  Fri Aug 10 16:39:26 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:39:26 -0500
Subject: running a stand-alone executable from within a python program
References: <c88b4aad.0108101211.383c97d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tn8hahosoai2e8@corp.supernews.com>

> Is there a way to run stand-alone executables from python?  It would
> be great if there was a way to do this independent of platform, but if
> not, these are my needs:
>
> Right now I have a stand-alone fortran 77 program that I want to run
> from a python program on a PC.  I will also be putting all of this on
> a mac someday soon (of course I will also be changing the fortran
> program some and compiling it on the mac).
>
> Future plans:  I'm not up to threading yet, but someday it would be
> nice to execute the fortran program on a separate UNIX box(es,
> parallel processing far in the future??) and pipe back the resulting
> text file to the PC or MAC client.

See the functions like os.system(), os.popen(), etc. in the standard
library's "os" module.





From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Sat Aug 11 22:33:16 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 21:33:16 -0500
Subject: PySOAP???
References: <3b73dbde.489022847@news.laplaza.org> <EE52A68200EA9E52.24FDF2ACE10FC10B.A7850789BC5E73F4@lp.airnews.net> <slrn9n7vkq.1i2.fig@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <29685FB46A645436.A70FBAFC812E678C.55B10A9C1D88CF47@lp.airnews.net>

In article <slrn9n7vkq.1i2.fig at localhost.localdomain>,
Stephen R. Figgins <fig at localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>
>><URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysoap/ >
>
>No released files here, and it looks like not much activity since it
>was started in October.
>
>Any other ideas, Cameron?  I would be happy to update the article with
>a better location if you have one.
			.
			.
			.
Ugh.  My post, earlier in this thread, was wrong.
I'll try to repair the damage:  the best place to
retrieve the Actzero SOAP.py is from the Pywebsvcs
<URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywebsvcs >
project page.  In particular, 
<URL: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pywebsvcs/SOAPpy097.tgz >
is a good download.

My apologies to those I misled.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From jwbaxter at spamcop.com  Fri Aug 31 11:02:49 2001
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:02:49 -0700
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
References: <3B8EE66C.2090703@erols.com>
Message-ID: <310820010802496704%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>

In article <3B8EE66C.2090703 at erols.com>, Edward C. Jones
<edcjones at erols.com> wrote:

> Has anyone written in C a merge function for sorted Python sequences? It 
> should look like:
>      merged_list, tail1, tail2 = merge(list1, list2)
> where either tail1 or tail2 is []. Suppose tail1 is []. Then tail2 is a 
> terminal sublist of list2, the last element of merged_list is the last 
> element of list1, and merged_list + tail2 is the merger of list1 and 
> list2. Similarly if tail2 is [].
> 
> This function would be useful for writing external merge sort programs.
> 

Ah, back to the good old days of the 8 tape sort (the showing of which
was the movie idiom for "computer" in the 1950s).  ;-)

   --John


From rnd at onego.ru  Wed Aug  1 18:02:26 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:02:26 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <3B63556E.11047A21@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108020159260.9379-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Paul Prescod wrote:

>William Tanksley wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:07:32 -0700, Paul Prescod wrote:
>> >2. If I have an object that hides its attributes behind an __getattr__,
>> >is there any way to tweak the list returned by the API described above?
>>
>> Not without the object's cooperation -- it's not even theoretically
>> possible to figure out what attributes __getattr__ might support.
>
>I am asking whether there is a way for the object to cooperate.
>
>>...
>> >def attrs(x):
>> >       return [y for y in all_possible_strings if hasattr(x, y)]
>>
>> Yes, that would work, for certain values of "work".  all_possible_strings
>> is a pretty simple generator.  So is attrs(), actually.
>>
>> def attrs(x):
>>   for y in all_possible_strings():
>>     if hasattr(x,y): yield y
>>
>> Amusing.
>
>I wasn't being theoretical. I was asking whether there is a function,
>method or parameter with those semantics (and obviously a more sane
>implementation).

This reminds me of the WWW becoming more and more virtual:
http://aaa.bbb.ccc/some/path
no more means there is aaa.bbb.ccc server with
some/path file on it's HD...

Does it harm WWW introspection (aka search engines)? Yes, it does. But it
is up to the web-master to decide how to let the site to be searchable.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Wednesday, August 01, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Be nice to other people, they outnumber you 5.5 billion to 1." _/




From quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug 22 13:38:31 2001
From: quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 17:38:31 GMT
Subject: eval errors tracing
References: <aaf95f4f.0108210934.3d5af6c5@posting.google.com> <mailman.998418151.27551.python-list@python.org> <aaf95f4f.0108220306.32eb6ad3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o7rgm.63d.quinn@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 22 Aug 2001 04:06:07 -0700, Tigra <tigra_564 at mail.ru> wrote:
>> Check out the traceback module, especially the print_tb and format_tb
>> functions:
>> 
>>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-traceback.html
>> 
>> They are typically called like
>> 
>>     traceback.print_tb(sys.get_exc_info()[2])
>
>I don't want to get errors printed as the standard tools do. I want to get the
>line number and do some complicated manupulations with it (they are really more
>than just string.zfill(lineno, 4)). For now I use a dirty hack:

Then you can read the source to traceback.py and find out how it gets the line
number.  Or read the reference manual about traceback objects.


From blong at fiction.net  Tue Aug 28 06:27:09 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:27:09 -0700
Subject: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?
Message-ID: <20010828032709.A23314@pulp>

I've tried PyApache 4.25, mod_python 2.7.6 and mod_snake 0.5.0 (and the
latest mod_snake from CVS yesterday), and none of them seem to work.

PyApache will work in SingleIntepreter mode, but without that on, it
only works the first time through the CGI per apache child process.
Ever follow on will fail to import some random module.

mod_python seems unable to keep the interpreters PyDict around, it 
aborts or core dumps because its NULL.

mod_snake works fine with the simple hello_world example, but trying to
the use the snake_lib/mod_snake_cgi doesn't even make it through apache
startup.  It appears that apache tries to import mod_snake_cgi twice,
and on the second time it segfaults attempting to load time.so

Redhat 6.1 / Linux 2.2.12
Apache 1.3.20
Python 2.1

I've tried with and without threads (for python).  PyApache I tried both
as a shared apache module and compiled in, all the others I've been
trying as shared modules.

I also noticed that none of these play nice enough such that you could
have two of them loaded into one apache server.  Its probably not that
important.

Any ideas?  Does anyone have a working configuration similar to this,
and if so, what was the magic incantation?

Brandon
-- 
  "I discovered that I can write code in my head while you complain
       about your job all night."  -- Dilbert 05/18/2001
                                         http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From nas at python.ca  Wed Aug 29 10:28:09 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:28:09 -0700
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <15244.63964.173053.634484@beluga.mojam.com>; from skip@pobox.com on Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:19:08AM -0500
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org> <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com> <15244.63964.173053.634484@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010829072809.B27471@glacier.arctrix.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     John> Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so modules
>     John> are private resources once they're loaded. 
> 
> I might be reading this wrong, and I'm definitely taking you out of context,
> but the whole idea of .so files is that their text sections *are* shared
> among processes.  Their data sections will be process-private.

That's an optimization done at the OS level however.  The process does
not see it.  I think (perhaps incorrectly) that John is saying that the
sharing is done in a less transparent fashion on Windows.  Can someone
confirm?

I don't know how this relates to the original question however.

  Neil



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Aug 10 12:30:16 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:30:16 -0400
Subject: Python 1.5 v Python 2.1
References: <mailman.997454537.12835.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <UWTc7.2829$rV6.231295@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Looks like he has some C extensions which he's carried forward without
recompilation.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Lindstrom Greg - glinds" <Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997454537.12835.python-list at python.org...
> I have a friend on my test team wanting to move to Python 2.1 on his
windows
> 2000 box. He is currently running Python 1.5.2 and has lots of existing
test
> code that he still wants to use. When he installed Python 2.1 and ran his
> first routine he saw: "dlls for 1.5 conflicting with version 2.1". I know
> there is an issue with the socket routine, but what's causing this, and
how
> can I fix it for him?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Greg Lindstrom
> Acxiom Corporation,                    mail: CWY10011149
> InfoBase Products Development                  office: (501) 342-1626
> 301 Industrial Blvd, Conway, AR, 72032     fax:     (501) 336-3911
> email: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com
>
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
> certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -- Bertrand
> Russell
>
>
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 03:17:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:17:03 +0200
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Courageous" <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl at 4ax.com...
>
> >I don't care if I had to explicitly express that I want linked list,
> >it just should be there. Or is the concept problematic in Python, for
> >some reason?
    ...
> If you have some special purpose linked list where N > 2000, it's
> easy enough to find an extension to fit your purposes. But as for
> the every day Python user, you have to admit that's a fairly special
> case. It therefore wouldn't be justified putting it into the language
> proper.

Absolutely, particularly since it's so easy to implement
in Python after all:

def cons(car, cdr):
    return car, cdr

def car(alist):
    return alist[0]

def cdr(alist):
    return alist[1]

There -- full fledged LISP-like lists.  What more could
one want?-)


Alex





From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 14:40:42 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:40:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
In-Reply-To: <sYai7.176823$g_3.30926720@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261440220.23937-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:

> if x is a complex number = a + bj
> is there any built in finction that can return the real and imaginary values
> of x?
> Something like:
> r = real(x) = a and
> s=img(x) = b
> I can not find something like that.
> Maan

Try x.real and x.imag.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From dgrisby at uk.research.att.com  Thu Aug 16 05:16:38 2001
From: dgrisby at uk.research.att.com (Duncan Grisby)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:16:38 GMT
Subject: [Python/C++ Question] Embedding Modules in C++
References: <9let5g$sh9$1@tribune.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <9lg31m$3k4$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>

In article <9let5g$sh9$1 at tribune.usask.ca>,
Mike F Winter  <mfw127 at skorpio.usask.ca> wrote:

>While embedding my python code in C++, I can import and access some
>system modules (string, etc..) fine, but when I try to import the
>socket library, I get this error:

[...]
>ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so: undefined symbol:
>PyEval_SaveThread

The problem is that the linker has stripped out all the symbols from
your executable, apart from the ones you actually use. When Python
dlopen()s _socket.so, it tries to reference a symbol that has been
stripped. The solution is to tell your linker not to strip the
symbols. With GNU ld, for example, the option is --export-dynamic.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby  \  Research Engineer  --
  -- AT&T Laboratories Cambridge          --
   -- http://www.uk.research.att.com/~dpg1 --


From Jason.Jurkowski at usa.xerox.com  Fri Aug 10 09:37:34 2001
From: Jason.Jurkowski at usa.xerox.com (Jason Michael Jurkowski)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:37:34 -0400
Subject: SWIG on solaris 2.8
Message-ID: <3B73E39E.4ED7B9BD@usa.xerox.com>

Hi,
I've downloaded SWIG to use with Python however when I run the configure
script it fails (If someone has worked around '.  configure: error:
./configure failed for Examples/GIFPlot' please let me know).  I was
wondering if anyone knows where I could find a precompiled version of
SWIG for Solaris 8.
Thanks,
Jason



From r.b.rigilink at chello.nl  Wed Aug 15 03:07:35 2001
From: r.b.rigilink at chello.nl (Roeland Rengelink)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:07:35 +0200
Subject: 2.2: __call__ method via __getattr__ not working
References: <mailman.997833143.19465.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7A1FB7.D5613BD6@chello.nl>

Drew Csillag wrote:
> 
> I don't know if this is a known bug in the current CVS version of 2.2
> but the following code breaks.
> 
> class bar(object):
>     def __call__(self, args):
>         print args
> 
> b = bar()
> b(1) #works ok here
> 
> class foo(object):
>     def _call_(self, args):
>         print args
>     def __getattr__(self, attr):
>         if attr == '__call__':
>             return self._call_
>         raise AttributeError, attr
> 
> f = foo()
> f(1) #dies here
> 

Well, I think this is (currently) a feature:

This works:

class foo(object):
    def __call__(): pass  # Convince Py foo is callable
    def _call_(self, args):
        print args
    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        if attr == '__call__':
            attr = attr[1:-1]
        return object.__getattr__(self, attr)

The reason this works is that when the this class definition is executed
def __call__():pass will fill the tp_call slot of the newly defined foo
type with a wrapper
that basically does an attribute lookup for __call__. If that def is not
present execution of the class definition will erroneously conclude that
tp_call needs not be set. When f(1) is then executed Python will check
this slot and conclude that a foo object is not callable.
    
Believe me, the previous sentences make sense when you look at the C
code

Hope this helps,

Roeland
-- 
r.b.rigilink at chello.nl

"Half of what I say is nonsense. Unfortunately I don't know which half"




From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 24 02:16:19 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:16:19 -0700
Subject: sys._exit()
References: <mailman.998520406.25668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m4rfj$qnp$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.998520406.25668.python-list at python.org>,
Chuck Esterbrook  <ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>-----------------------
>_exit(n)
>
>Exit to the system with status n, without calling cleanup handlers, 
>flushing stdio buffers, etc. Availability: Unix, Windows.
>
>Note: the standard way to exit is sys.exit(n). _exit() should normally only 
>be used in the child process after a fork().

For the clarification of any confused readers, this is os._exit()
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 22:41:05 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy and Debra Jones)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:41:05 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko>
Message-ID: <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: gzeljko <gzeljko at sezampro.yu>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem


>
> Good comparison, but very often 'single linked list' here is
> adequate as backup structure for visual-tree-control.
> It can be simple stored:
> in one rdbms (indexed) table { parent, child, child_atributes }
> or Python (or bsddb) dictionary { parent: [child1, chid2 ..]}.
>
> gzeljko
>

It seems like if you were to do it in a rdbms, you would need at least two
tables:

1)  one table with the definition of the thing itself: a primary
identification key, name, parent, any extra info that you may want to put in
there about the thing.
2)  another table that has a foreign identification key linking back to the
primary key in the first table, and another foreign key linking back to the
primary key of the first table of the children of this particular thing.

Since any particular thing can have multiple children and only one parent,
and you would want to look up and down the hierarchy, it seems like you
would have to set it up like the above.

The dictionary approach winds up getting a whole lot more convoluted a lot
more quickly than what I would desire.  As Alex Martelli pointed out,
keeping it simple is probably the best bet.  And as Peter Hansen pointed
out, there is a very simple solution in reading in an XML file and creating
a DOM object out of it and walking down the hierarchy tree.  (BTW - I am
working on this right now.  It looks like this will, indeed, be an ideal
solution for my problem.  Thanks, Peter.)  In my situation, since I am
responsible for creating the files that I am reading in anyway, I can very
easily re-format them so that they are a simple XML file and represent them
in a tree view with Tix.Tree and xml.dom.

Anyway, once I get a sample working, I will post it to the group.  I noticed
that there is an XML tools module just announced today (for python) that may
help my in my quest.  I may be reinventing the wheel by going the tix.tree
and xml.dom route if they have already done that work for me...


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Tue Aug 28 08:03:46 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:03:46 +1000
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
References: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>        
	 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net> 
	 <15241.575.772954.842109@beluga.mojam.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261017270.6830-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
	 <3B8A205A.E5076D1F@student.gu.edu.au> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270752200.1567-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8B88A2.8A487EE0@student.gu.edu.au>

Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Joal Heagney wrote:
> 
> > Try this on a clean build directory
> >
> > PYTHON=/usr/local/bin/python ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
> > Then the rest of it.
> 
> Thanks!!  I had to do the tar again (probably what you said at the top
> :-), but after that it compiled against the correct python!  Thank you!
> 

Yeap, you could have also done make distclean as well. I'm glad I could
help. It's a neat trick, isn't it?
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Wed Aug  1 10:20:11 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:20:11 GMT
Subject: newbie
References: <861gmtojn1b9ohrvp3aqqdh927isp7297r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010801.102717.1139901474.14029@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article <861gmtojn1b9ohrvp3aqqdh927isp7297r at 4ax.com>, "Theasolon"
<inflicted at rocketmail.com> wrote:


> I'm newbie to this all, and done some research. I want to start to learn
> programming, and I believe Python is a good language to start. I have
> absolutely no experience in programming, so does anyone here have any
> tips for newbies? I've found several tutorials etc, but if anyone has
> any tips at all, please mail me. Maybe a good website to start etc.
> Thanks.
> 

Hello. I think Python is a great choice.

Being a new programmer, you may find the following resources helpful:

http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/
http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

Those tutorials are great for people who want to start programming with
Python, but need also need a gentle introduction to some concepts of
programming.

-- 
"The use of COBOL criples the mind; its teaching should, therefore 
 be regarded as a criminal offence" - E. W. Dijkstra

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Thu Aug 30 15:08:59 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:08:59 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
Message-ID: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net>

I'm using python for one day now, and the only thing i van do is import sys
and exit() and print "hello". I want messageboxes! how?




From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Fri Aug 31 16:22:59 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:22:59 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <slrn9ovpna.qb9.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <O6Sj7.66$j9.376@castor.casema.net> <ltrvotoe3plvfeq1gg3bkmhbkrcnk3bpcf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <DmSj7.70$j9.429@castor.casema.net>

Thabk you so much.I think there's something wrong with my python then.
"Sheila King" <sheila at spamcop.net> schreef in bericht
news:ltrvotoe3plvfeq1gg3bkmhbkrcnk3bpcf at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:06:06 GMT, "jeroen paul goudsmit"
> <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <O6Sj7.66$j9.376 at castor.casema.net>:
>
> :It's very nice of you that you gave me that site, but it don't works.. I
> :don't know why, i exactly wrote the lines from that site. I really get
mad
> :if it don't works. You go to a site and, it don't works.  That's
annoying.
> :Not your fault. I only say that the site sucks, cause it don't works.
>
> But that site "does work". The instructions on that site are correct,
> and that is a classic site to be referred to for instruction on Tkinter.
>
> If you are following the instructions exactly, then something is not
> right with your set up.
>
> Otherwise, maybe you are not following the instructions exactly.
>
> With what information you are posting here, it is very hard for us to
> tell what is wrong.
>
> Give us a complete script, or a better yet, a complete copy and paste of
> an interactive session from the time you start up the interpreter to the
> time of the error messages. And include the error messages exactly as
> printed by the Python interpreter (i.e. copy and past them. Do not
> re-type them in your own words).
>
> Referring you to a different site for instruction would not help. If the
> directions you copied didn't work from that site, they won't work from
> another site, either.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/
>




From jgoerzen at complete.org  Fri Aug 24 13:24:11 2001
From: jgoerzen at complete.org (John Goerzen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:24:11 -0500
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <mailman.998660737.23722.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n14pqslg.fsf@complete.org>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes:

>> DTML bites. It hits on making it easy to do easy things, but is too
>> constraining for the expert because you don't have the full flexibility
>> of Python in the tags.
> 
>    DTML is presentation language. Don't mix logic and presentation. If you
> need Python - just use Python, not DTML.

The problem, though, is that it's not all that easy to do HTML in
Python, especially for non-programmers.  One neat approach is Enhydra,
a Java system, which uses id attributes in HTML tags and then lets the
Java code modify those tags.  Completely separates presentation from
implementation.  OTOH because it is Java, it apparently obeys the
unwritten rule that it must be a beheamoth with a large and complex
API that requires 10x more code to use than it should.... sigh....

I also dislike not storing files in the regular, filsystem way.

OTOH, Zope's inheritance model is quite nice.

-- John

-- 
John Goerzen <jgoerzen at complete.org>    GPG: 0x8A1D9A1F    www.complete.org


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 19:53:18 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:53:18 -0500
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing  if statements...)
In-Reply-To: <u1ym5atdm.fsf_-_@advancedmp.net>
References: <mailman.998401650.6829.python-list@python.org>
        <9lu1nr02nbs@enews4.newsguy.com>
        <u1ym5atdm.fsf_-_@advancedmp.net>
Message-ID: <15234.62574.38494.765173@beluga.mojam.com>

    Don> So, are there some good patterns, idioms, or whatever to provide
    Don> guidance on when to use exceptions vs. checking error codes,
    Don> etc. (other than the obvious general qualities: ease of use,
    Don> readability, modifiability, ...)?

I don't know that there are any codified examples of useful patterns for
using exceptions vs. checking error codes.  (Alex might know.  If anyone
would, I expect it would be him... ;-) Many modules define their own "error"
or "Error" exceptions that other modules will catch.  Most often they are
used in an error context.  Perhaps the one thing I've never seen done is to
use an exception across module boundaries to signal a non-error condition.
Also, note that you can have your cake and eat it too, because you can (and
many modules do) raise an exception and annotate it with messages or error
codes:

    try:
        somemodule.func(p1, p2, p3)
    except somemodule.Error, (code, msg):
        if code == 200:
            # an expected condition, warn and move on
            print msg
        else:
            # something we can't recover from - reraise the exception
            raise

The example I always think of when considering using exceptions vs. error
codes or flags in a non-error context is breaking out of a nested loop.
Since Python doesn't have a goto statement or multi-level break, people
often use flag variables to accomplish this:

    done = 0
    for i in range(len(mylist)):
        for j in range(len(mylist[i])):
            if some_predicate(mylist[i][j]):
                done = 1
                break
        if done:
            break
    if done:
        do_stuff_with(mylist[i][j])
    else:
        print "didn't find anything interesting..."

This always seemed pretty clumsy to me.  I prefer to use exceptions:

    class done(Exception): pass
    try:
        for i in range(len(mylist)):
            for j in range(len(mylist[i])):
                if some_predicate(mylist[i][j]):
                    raise done
    except done:
        do_stuff_with(mylist[i][j])
    else:
        print "didn't find anything interesting..."

YMMV.  Some people hate the construct.  I think it's pretty Pythonic.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Mon Aug 27 16:17:45 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:17:45 -0500
Subject: Real.py  where is it?
Message-ID: <tolaqbiepg70fb@corp.supernews.com>

All web links to this module are broken.  Where can I find it?
Maan




From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 13:36:12 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:36:12 GMT
Subject: ZPT, was Re: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
	        <9k9ekl$ev$1@norfair.nerim.net>
	        <3B6B3F0B.582EA80D@yahoo.com> <mailman.996936010.9430.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6C30D5.23AFD096@yahoo.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Paul> I'm trying to migrate to ZPT and completely stop using DTML.
> 
> For those of us who don't follow Zope closely, what's ZPT?

Zope Page Templates.
These are intended to provide a cleaner, simpler, and more consistent template
language for Zope. Pythonistas might appreciate that. It's implemented as an
attribute language for XML, which should please the buzzword addicts.
Furthermore, you can view a Page Template directly in an HTML browser and
actually see something useful, and successfully edit it in a third-party app
such as GoLive. (I have heard that DreamWeaver doesn't quite work as hoped at
the moment.)

A good introductory document is the FAQ:
http://www.zope.org//Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ZPT/FAQ

At first there wasn't much to go on for learning ZPT, just the language spec,
but there's now an excellent tutorial:
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ZPT/SimpleTutorial

And an introduction for people familiar with DTML:
http://www.zope.org//Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ZPT/IntroductionForDTMLers

And a pile of examples comparing DTML and ZPT solutions to the same tasks:
http://www.zope.org/Members/peterbe/DTML2ZPT

-- 
...................    paul winkler   ....................
custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
       A member of ARMS:   http://www.reacharms.com
            home page:  http://www.slinkp.com


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 13:05:16 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:05:16 -0500
Subject: global declaration from within functions
In-Reply-To: <9le69l$bha$1@news.mathworks.com>
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com>
        <Xns90FEA401A2357duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
        <9le69l$bha$1@news.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <15226.43980.177173.665486@beluga.mojam.com>

    >>> def f():
    ...    global x
    ...    x = 666
    ... 
    >>> f()
    >>> x
    666

Not quite:

    >>> def f():
    ...   global x
    ...   return
    ... 
    >>> f()
    >>> x
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    NameError: name 'x' is not defined

The global declaration does not guarantee a global object will be created,
only that if you assign a value to the declared name in the current scope,
the global namespace will be modified, not the local namespace.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Tue Aug 14 02:52:30 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:52:30 +1000
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org> <cpu1ze9hhy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B78CAAE.1963BF23@student.gu.edu.au>

Guido van Rossum wrote:

> It's still open for debate -- the newsgroup doesn't seem to be
> unanimous.
> 
> But note that future statements were intended in the first place to
> avoid *silent* breakage -- where existing code suddenly means
> something different.  This was the case (in some rare situations) with
> nested scopes and is clearly the case with division.
> 
> Use of 'yield' as an identifier is not a silent breakage -- there has
> to be at least one defining occurrence of yield when used as a
> variable, function, module or class name, and that will always be a
> syntax error.  This is why I proposed that, *if* there is enough
> popular support, the future generators statement might be
> unnecessary.  But it doesn't look likely.

Would it be possible to include something in the compile options? So
that if a person chooses to do so, they can automatically include all
__future__ directives into the executable?
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 15:21:07 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 12:21:07 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998212048.7664.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xelq76el8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <brian at sweetapp.com> writes:
> > The trouble is, the very existence of a workaround is sometimes itself
> > a limitation, e.g. in implementing an applet sandbox.
> 
> I'm sure that your particular application is close to your heart but
> it's fortunately not a problem most of us have to deal with.

The implementers of Grail, a web browser written in Python that runs
Python applets, had to deal with it.  Similarly the developers of
RExec/Bastion thought it was an important enough problem to develop a
special module for it.  Perl has something similar.

> > I'll check into those.  However, a true general purpose language
> > should be useable in all environments.
> 
> Name one language that is useable in ALL environments.

Smalltalk and Lisp are Python-like languages that have been used as
the basis for complete computing environments (PARC Smalltalk system
and MIT Lisp Machine).  I don't see why Python shouldn't be useable
on a similar scale.


From carljohan.rehn at chello.se  Tue Aug 21 14:56:26 2001
From: carljohan.rehn at chello.se (Carl Johan Rehn)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:56:26 GMT
Subject: Python COM Servers and Excel/VBA: Set/Get multidimensional attributes... 
Message-ID: <u9yg7.2502$_J1.72339@nntp1.chello.se>

Does anyone know how to set/get attributes in Python COM objects that are
multidimensional arrays (list of lists)?
Here is a short extract of code that I have been playing around with.

Yours, Carl

Python COM Server:

COMEXPOSE = 1
class RandomStockPrice:
        if COMEXPOSE == 1:
                _public_methods_ = [ '__init__', 'StockPrice' ]
                _public_attrs_ = [ 'l_S0', 'l_Sigma']
                _reg_progid_ = "Random.Stock"
                _reg_clsid_ = "{1EA514E2-954B-11D5-B564-0002A563A48C}"
        def __init__(self):
                # l_S0 and l_Sigma are multidimensional, i.e. list of lists
                self.l_S0 = []; self.l_Sigma = []
        def StockPrice(self):
                # Some code stuff...
                StockPrice = 0.0
                return StockPrice
if __name__=='__main__':
        if COMEXPOSE == 1:
                import win32com.server.register
                win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(RandomStockPrice)
        else:
                RSP = RandomStockPrice()

Excel/VBA COM Client:

Sub COMRandomStockPrice()
    Set COMServer = CreateObject("Random.Stock")
    Dim l_S0 As Variant
    Dim l_Sigma As Variant
    l_S0 = Array(350#, 350#, 350#)
    l_Sigma = Array(Array(0.75, 0.7, 0.7), _
                                 Array(0.7, 0.75, 0.7), _
                                 Array(0.7, 0.7, 0.75))
    COMServer.l_S0 = l_S0
    COMServer.l_Sigma = l_Sigma
    Dim S As Variant
    Dim Sigma As Variant
    S = COMServer.l_S0
    Sigma = COMServer.l_Sigma
    Debug.Print S(0, 0)
    Debug.Print Sigma (0, 0)
End Sub




From joe at strout.net  Fri Aug 10 13:07:21 2001
From: joe at strout.net (Joe Strout)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:07:21 GMT
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
Message-ID: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net>

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

My company is using the PCRE library in an international product.  But
we're discovering some problems with its UTF-8 support, which is
causing grief for our Japanese users (and others).  Since (AIUI) Python
also uses PCRE, I'm wondering if the Python community has encountered
these problems, and how they've been handled?

Matching a single UTF-8 character works fine.  For the sake of
discussion, let's imagine that "#" and "@" are Japanese Kanji.  If my
target string is "##@", and my search pattern is "#", PCRE will
correctly match the string "#".

But matching multiple UTF-8 characters appears to be broken.  If
(again) my target string is "##@", but my search pattern is "#+", it
should match the string "##".  But it doesn't; instead, it matches only
"#".  And of course more complex search strings fail in more mysterious
ways.

We've tried to contact Philip Hazel (author of PCRE) about it, but have
received no reply.  Any tips from the Python community about this
problem?

Thanks,
- Joe

-- 
,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe at strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


From trelis at mindspring.com  Sat Aug 11 18:46:57 2001
From: trelis at mindspring.com (jsnyder)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:46:57 -0400
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3B75B8E0.A3F3969E@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <9l4co3$m25$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>

> > Running from Pythonwin, I am importing a module and then calling its
method.
> > Then I change the module code and run it again, but the old code still
runs,
> > not the new code.  The only way I have been able to get the new code is
to
> > shut down the interpreter, restart it and reimport the module.  Surely
there
> > is an easier way.
>
> You may use
>   reload(module)
> if you earlier did
>   import module
>
> However, that would cause problems if some code had changed the module's
> contents and relies on them.
>
> Therefore, I use reload only for tests in the interactive interpreter.
>
> Stefan

Stefan,
That's exactly the answer I was hoping for.  Thank you!!

-Joe




From amuys at shortech.com.au  Thu Aug 23 23:17:49 2001
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 20:17:49 -0700
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> <3b8438f6.196472081@wa.news.verio.net> <3B84B46D.9B6831EF@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0108231917.6a0af00e@posting.google.com>

Dietmar Lang <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message news:<3B84B46D.9B6831EF at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>...
>
> Hey, that sounds rather good to me. I'll think about the database, too.
> But somehow I like this 'homemade' approach a little better. ;-)

Now my curiosity is piqued.  Why would you possibly prefer the
non-standard, probably less efficient, more complicated, and probably
buggier "write your own database" solution over the far simpler "use
dbm/msql"?

Is it just a case of NIH syndrome?  Or is there a real reason to do it
that way?

I really am interested in your reasoning, as I see this sort of
response alot, and it always puzzles me.

Andrae Muys


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug  9 04:02:21 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:02:21 +0100
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
References: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net>
Message-ID: <cAym3IANOkc7Ew27@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

>>> class A:
...     def func1(self):
...             return 1
...     def func2(self):
...             return 2
...     def func3(self):
...             return 3
...
>>> L=['func1','func3','func2']         #list of method names
>>> a = A()                             # create the object
>>> map(lambda x,a=a: apply(getattr(a,x),()), L)        #call
[1, 3, 2]                                               # the result
>>> 

-- 
Robin Becker


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Mon Aug 13 01:41:43 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:41:43 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:26:49 GMT."
             <cphevdfawz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <m15WATw-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> Roeland Rengelink <r.b.rigilink at chello.nl> writes:
> 
> > One idiom where I use __class__ assignment is the following
> > 
> > class State1:
> >     def do_something(self):
> >         ...do something...
> >     def change_state(self):
> >         self.__class__ = State2
> > class State2:
> >     def do_something(self):
> >         ...do something else...
> >     def change_state(self):
> >         self.__class__ = State1
> 
> But you can easily do this differently -- e.g. you could do a method
> assignment, or you could represent the state by an object.

For some definition of easy...

If the change affects several methods instead of one you could still
use method assignments but that's not easy compared to a simple
__class__ assignment.

A proxy object is a clean solution but introduces additional
complexity. 

Disclaimer: I currently don't use __class__ assignment (except once in
very experimental code). Yet I know several design patterns where it
provides a convenient solution -- 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From bokr at accessone.com  Tue Aug 28 20:11:08 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:11:08 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999028783.18165.python-list@python.org> <x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <J4Vi7.172382$rV6.8623803@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b8c306d.718575126@wa.news.verio.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:43:32 -0400, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
>news:x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
[...]
>>
>> If you're that picky about accuracy, floats are definitely the wrong
>choice.
>>
>Wrong. Tim isn't being picky about accuracy, he's being picky about
>correctly rounding numbers to the required number of decimal places. If a
>number is 6.66666 (plus or minus noise beyond ten decimal places) there is
>no system which makes 6.66 the correct answer to 2 D.P.
>
>> >>> '%.2f' % (0.005)
>> '0.01'
>> >>> '%.2f' % (0.015)
>> '0.01'
>> >>> '%.2f' % (0.025)
>> '0.03'
>>
>Perfect, and just what a numerical analyst would require: alternate cases
>that are exactly at the midpoint round in opposite directions. [Thouhg in
>fact it's a bit lucky, and I seem to remember the rule I was taught back in
>the days when you did this sort of thing on a motor-driven calculator said
>round up if the digit before 5 is evan, down if it's odd. Since this is
>almost 30 years on, I'm sure you'll forgive me if I'm wrong).
>
Well, the problem is fp literals are not necessarily as exact as they look:

 >>> `0.005`
 '0.0050000000000000001'
 >>> `0.015`
 '0.014999999999999999'
 >>> `0.025`
 '0.025000000000000001'

The essential problem is transforming representations into elements of
another set that doesn't match 1:1 all over both sets of representations.




From bobh at hslda.org  Fri Aug  3 08:43:00 2001
From: bobh at hslda.org (Robert)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 05:43:00 -0700
Subject: PyQt for win32
References: <3B6A3635.9BF5981E@telocity.com> <3b6a6ab2$0$31962$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <4a249347.0108030443.5cc95599@posting.google.com>

I would like just the binaries as well...but I am waiting for someone
who has the compiler.

Bob


From plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu  Sun Aug 19 21:57:12 2001
From: plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu (plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 01:57:12 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <9lpg63$q69@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <9lpqpo$3fp@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

plakal at nospam-cs.wisc.edu wrote:
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>>     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
>
> 	      y.a = wower()
>               b,c,d = y.a
>               x.e = y.a

	Never mind, I was dumb and
	forgot about __setattr__
	and __getattr__.

	Manoj



From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Mon Aug 20 05:45:58 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:45:58 +0200
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com> <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <tlfqnt84r54idgtstjanugkvhn86tp1qlq@4ax.com> <3B7D6351.2B6B2031@ccvcorp.com><5hsqnt08u6n3cu7921c66cokcr6mkv79pn@4ax.com> <B7A3F696.16481%goodger@users.sourceforge.net> <NbAf7.92704$eJ6.8231737@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <jum1ot41u71ue56154th0b5hvub12og4ur@4ax.com>

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:32:08 +0200, "Grace" <nospam at nospam.com> wrote:

>When I look at your code, it seems like it's testing DB itself rather than
>the python code. PyUnit is not intended for testing DB engines per se.

Agreed. It was an example. I couldn't think of a small, realistic, example.
Sorry.

How about a GUI test example, like in the docs. setUp creates a widget,
tearDown destroys it. In between, tests do hundreds of things like
setSize(10,10), assert getSize() == (10, 10). You get the idea. OK, so
creating a widget *might* not be too expensive - but it might be (you'll force
me to suggest a widget which maintains a database connection, if you're not
careful :-)

Paul.



From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Aug 18 10:50:50 2001
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Reis)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 07:50:50 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <b0509bcd.0108180650.d23decb@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<cpzo969i4k.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>...
> Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:
> 
> > Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> > remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?
> 
> Yes, I'd like to remove this.  See my previous post in this thread for
> more of an explanation of the problem.  But I haven't decided yet!
> This thread will help me figure out how big of a deal it will be.

I can present a different use-case so the decision can take these
things into account. I've written a set of wrappers for the basic GTK
widgets, and they're done in pure Python. Now Gtk has a companion
library called libglade which can query an XML file and retrieve
widget definitions, which it then instantiates and returns into
Pythonland through a libglade.py module. The libglade C module does
some fancy work with the widgets, and in the end they show up as
regular Python GTK instances. However, because I want them to be
"cast" into my wrappers, I just swap attribute my wrapper class to the
instances' __class__ attributes. This is, AFAICS, the only solution
without modifying the C module or re-wrapping the Python code.

This is a very valuable ability in python, and I'd very much like to
know, in the case it won't be preserved, if something functionally
equivalent could be proposed as a future addition.

> But you're getting so much in return!  Subclassing built-in types,
> get/set methods, class and static methods, uniform introspection...

Yep, these are valuable. But it's tough giving up something nice
you've grown fond of :)

> If you know the type it's going to be eventually, you can use
> C.__new__() to create an uninitialized C instance.

This doesn't help in my case, unfortunately. :/

Take care,
--
Christian Reis, Senior Engineer, Async Open Source, Brazil.
http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 272 3330 | NMFL


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Aug 26 23:05:23 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:05:23 -0700
Subject: problem with pythonwin32
References: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <toje4v7t9krqfd@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Greer" <Paul.Greer1 at btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9mc3m3$jk3$1 at plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Might sound like a silly question but how do I get a script to run as a
> program from an Icon on windows. When ever I do the DOS box opens and
> immediately closes.

It actually ran, as long as your Python path and so forth were set up
properly
to begin with.

The problem is if you were expecting the DOS box to stay open
so you could supply input or parameters. As far as I know, there's no simple
way to do this. One way is to set up a DOS command, with Properties |
Program
| Command Line set to C:\windows\command.com and Batch File on the same
properties page set to the name of a batch file that actually invokes your
program.
The batch file can also do other things, like setting up the working
directory and
the correct path to Python, and so forth. They you simply double click the
DOS
icon, and it works.

Of course, if you simply want the ugly DOS box to quit flashing at you,
rename
the script to .pyw, as the other responders have mentioned. I presumed that
wasn't
your problem, since you mentioned wanting it to actually run...

John Roth






From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 23:52:16 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:52:16 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net> <9cojotgk3dmqr99cfbpeboaemgnudeqdc0@4ax.com> <3b8ac249.624843477@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <oc4motgrortc70p096as7u3hi4ccvl8lt3@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:20:42 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<3b8ac249.624843477 at wa.news.verio.net>:

:On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:14:56 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
:[...]
:>
:>Actually, I think what happens with Windows98, is that there is only
:>exclusive lock. No shared locking (which is what one would want for
:>reading). So, I could change the name of the file when a write process
:>wants to acquire it. Otherwise, if the un-renamed file is there, it is
:>OK to read from it. Do you think this type of approach would work for
:>the reading part only? 
:>
:Yes, but there's a problem, because you need to be able to distinguish
:2+n states of a file: (1) not open for anything (2) open for readonly
:n>0 times (3) open for exclusive writing.

Yes, I had been thinking about this last night and the good part of this
morning, and hadn't come up with a solution, yet. However, thanks to
David Bolen's suggestion, I think I won't have to handle it this way,
after all.
...<snippage>>..
:A writer has to be able watch for the count of readers to go to zero
:one way or another. Perhaps you could have readers create individual
:expiring read-lock files named by appending their os.pid() numbers
:plus time tag to the name of the file to lock. Then the writer could
:watch for all those to disappear or expire.

Right. It would be tricky to code. I had not thought of a good way, yet.

:This only applies for high traffic on win32, but since on win32 the
:writer can't assume ability to rename as a mechanism for preventing
:additional readers when the file is already open (it get permission
:denied, unlike unix), perhaps if the writer process creates its own
:write-lock file as a first step, then potential readers could defer
:creating their read-lock files if they see that, and existing ones
:would cycle out or expire, and the writer could  rename and open the file.
:
:For unix the write-lock file would be a waste, since renaming will succeed
:unless the file is in orphan form. And unless you are fighting a humongous
:swarm of readers all interested in one file on win32, it shouldn't hurt
:to leave it out there either.

This is very useful and interesting information for me. I did play a bit
and discover that I could not rename open files on win32, but I could on
Linux. So, I can see that there is quite a bit of difference between how
the file systems work.

:Note that the atomicity of renaming is critical to making this work. E.g.,

Would someone please explain the concept of "atomic" or "atomicity" with
respect to file operations. Do you mean, that you are (below) showing in
detail, step-by-step what would happen at each point in the process that
you suggest?

:reader        writer
:--------    ------------
:[ck wlock]      .           <-not really needed except high traffic win32?
:   .         [set wlock]    <-ditto
:   .         rename         <-not safe to eliminate
:   .         ck rlocks
:   .         open for w
:set rlock       .
:open for r      .
:   .         write
:read ??
:
...<other good info snipped>...
:
:On win32 the rename would raise an exception if the reader had succeeded,
:so the rlock check could effectively be accomplished just with that, but
:as mentioned, that's not true on unix, so it needs to be in the waiting
:loop for win32 with a try/except wrapper, and the rename should not
:be repeated if it succeeds, as it normally will on unix.
:
:It'd be nice if the builtin open had an option for exclusive access within
:a specified timeout for trying ;-)

Actually, the win32file.CreateFile does have an option for exclusive
access. I don't believe there is a specified timeout, but it does have
the exclusive access part.

Thanks again for all these tips and info. It really helps.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 03:41:45 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:41:45 +0200
Subject: Python Library Question
References: <3B80B181.1E8D44A4@us.ibm.com> <3B840645.6E2E3375@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2001714.78ljVUCQOu@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> schrub:

> When you are using functions (or other attributes) from an imported
> module, you have to prepend the module name--in effect, you're telling
> the
> interpreter *where* to find that function.  So try:
> 
>>>> import math
>>>> x = 2
>>>> y = math.exp(2)
>>>> y
> 7.3890560989306504

Another way would be:

>>> from math import exp
>>> exp(2)
7.38905609893
>>> 

As you know, there's always _one_ obvious way to do it, but this only 
way may have just lots of lanes :-)

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From xavier at perceval.net  Wed Aug 22 05:10:52 2001
From: xavier at perceval.net (Xavier Defrang)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:10:52 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Python VM specs
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108221106310.713-100000@elara.perceval.be>

Is there any paper describing the instruction set of the Python Virtual
Machine or should I learn anything from Python/ceval2.c?

I already searched google and the only valuable resource I found were a
couple of articles like Skip Mantanaro's interesting paper about peephole
optimization.

Regards,

Xavier Defrang
Perceval R&D Team
xavier at perceval.net

-------------------------------------------------
 Perceval Technologies SA/NV  Tel: +32-2-6409194
 Rue Tenbosch, 9              Fax: +32-2-6403154
 B-1000 Brussels         http://www.perceval.net
 BELGIUM                       info at perceval.net
-------------------------------------------------




From joe at strout.net  Fri Aug 10 15:08:02 2001
From: joe at strout.net (Joe Strout)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:08:02 GMT
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net> <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <100820011208059612%joe@strout.net>

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

> python no longer uses pcre, the pcre based regexp module
> was replaced by a new unicode-aware implementation called sre (written
> by Fredrik Lundh). sre is much faster too...

Wow, I didn't know that.  Where can I find out more about sre?

Thanks,
- Joe

-- 
,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe at strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 26 16:51:54 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:51:54 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <998406891.451155@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1452000.a2XM6RcZxF@lunix.schabi.de> <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <5285736.frOyU7HbjW@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> schrub:

>> seems to be faster in my eyes, as it doesn't have a dictionary lookup
>> every round.
> 
> SEEMS and IS, of course, are often very different, MOST
> particularly in the arena of computer-program performance.
> Have you tried to MEASURE things...?
> 
> File dipe.py:
[...]

> D:\py21>python dipe.py
> using keys: 0.45
> using items: 0.53
> using keys: 0.45
> using items: 0.53
> 
> D:\py21>python dipe.py
> using keys: 0.45
> using items: 0.53
> using keys: 0.45
> using items: 0.53

Using python 1.5.2 on Linux, I get:
schabi at lunix:~/python/dict$ python dict.py
using keys: 0.41
using items: 0.42
using keys: 0.41
using items: 0.4
schabi at lunix:~/python/dict$ python dict.py
using keys: 0.41
using items: 0.42
using keys: 0.4
using items: 0.41

This seems rather the same speed.

However, using python2.0.1, I get nearly the same values as you:
schabi at lunix:~/python/dict$ python2 dict.py
using keys: 0.42
using items: 0.53
using keys: 0.42
using items: 0.53
schabi at lunix:~/python/dict$ python2 dict.py
using keys: 0.42
using items: 0.53
using keys: 0.42
using items: 0.52

This lets me to the following conclusions:
- Your Machine speed seems to be in the 500Mhz Athlon class :-)

- Key Access seems to be faster on Linux than on NT - or dict access 
slower on linux (when your machine is slower than mine)

- Python 2 is slightly slower in dictionary lookup (or general code 
execution), but it needs 25% more time using keys.

So you're right.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From stadt at cs.utwente.nl  Sun Aug 19 19:08:18 2001
From: stadt at cs.utwente.nl (Richard van de Stadt)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:08:18 +0200
Subject: SMTP
References: <mailman.997956746.8212.python-list@python.org> <3B7BF923.B8E03349@scripps.edu> <3B7C7660.FFF77A13@engcorp.com> <3B801D64.987C4C88@cs.utwente.nl> <1523044.YEL58v44cs@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B8046E2.E5127EB0@cs.utwente.nl>

Markus Schaber wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Richard van de Stadt <stadt at cs.utwente.nl> schrub:
> 
> > -----
> >> From: MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at xxxxxxxxx
> >> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
> >> addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't
> >> work out.
> >>
> >> bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk failed after I sent the message.
> >> Remote host said: 554 No date field given
> >
> > Richard.
> 
> You have to append an appropriate Date: Header.
> 
> See the Mail RFCs which headers have to be there, and which one can
> leave out.

'Have to' doesn't apply to most mail systems. I've been running a
system that collects submissions for conferences, which has been sending
out feedback messages to many addresses using smtplib ever since it was
introduced in 1.5.2, and this is the first time I meet a mail system
that bouces because it wants a 'Date:' in the header.

Anyway, I plan to use this:

from time import time, ctime, tzname, daylight
date = 'Date: ' + ctime(time()) + ' ' + tzname[daylight] + '\n'

and put date between the 'Subject:' and the 'From:' lines

Richard.


From timr at probo.com  Sat Aug  4 19:05:36 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:05:36 -0700
Subject: Trouble with SQL and Entry box
References: <20010801.123000.2118901476.1757@office.lan> <b9rhmt0q058kiqs7mhonmeh35v71j4ifvu@4ax.com> <20010803.152551.2098348051.2230@office.lan>
Message-ID: <hmvomt45hi5beostc8hrkqmci55rtl4ubi@4ax.com>

"Cguru" <cguru at bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Thank you very much for your response...I add the line as you said
>self.ent17.insert(END,var1[0][0])
>
>and got the following error:
>Type Error: unscriptable object...

My fault.  I left out one step.  The "query" method returns a results
object; you have to ask for the results tuples using a method of that
object:

>>  rs = pg.DB('blah')
>>
>>  query17 = "select companyname from clients"
>>  var1 = rs.query(query17)

    how_many_rows = var1.ntuples()
    results = var1.getresult()

>>  self.ent17 = Entry (master)

    self.ent17.insert(END, results[0][0])

>>  self.ent17.place(in_=master,x=120,y=30)

--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Aug  1 09:18:10 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 08:18:10 -0500
Subject: Large pages using Zope
References: <9k766t$dc0$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3B674802.C730D678@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5F49B5CBF5054C94.33E4B38F094277B1.1DDFF7F8A2A4AD86@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3B674802.C730D678 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Achim Domma wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I just finished the first step : I succeded in introducing Python as our
>> prefered scripting language, replacing JScript and VBScript in the future. 
>> Now we need a way to script webpages with it. 
>
>Presumably you are not talking about using Python in the browser?  That's
>possible, of course, with IE (which Python can script via ActiveX), but
>it requires installing Python on each client machine and therefore is
>feasible only on an Intranet.
			.
			.
			.
Mr. Domma, I have a similar question.  Are you saying
that you're replacing client-side JScript and VBScript
with server-side Python?  Architectural redesign inter-
ests me; what kinds of service were JScript and VBScript
giving you?  Did they reach to your CORBA-DB back end?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug 27 11:14:32 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:14:32 -0400
Subject: os.execl()
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <Kpti7.155462$rV6.7839877@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"eli" <eli at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:20010827.094906.1398295499.2106 at udel.edu...
> Hello,
>
> I have a question about the ececl function from the os module. I was
> trying to write a script to untar a bunch of tarballs in a directory. The
> script looked like this
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import os
>
> os.system("ls *.gz > data_file")
>
> tar_file = open("data_file"), "r")
>
> tar_array = tar_file.readlines()
>
> for tarball in tar_array:
> os.execl("tar", "xzvf", tarball)
>
> os.system("rm data_file")
>
>
>
>
> I was getting errors from the xzvf argument of tar during the first
> evecution of the loop. I'm pretty new to python so I don't knwo where to
> go from here. I would appreciate any help that you could give me.
>
Besides the other excellent advice you've had about this, also note that
readlines() retains the line terminators on the ines it has read, so if you
don't strip these off you may find that they are not recognised as filenames
when passed as arguments to execv() and spawnv().

regards
 Steve

--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sat Aug 11 10:26:13 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:26:13 -0500
Subject: [Package] FontTools: a font manipulation library
References: <20010810112905-r01010700-8b0dfba3-0910-010c@10.0.0.21>
Message-ID: <004001c12271$9e11cca0$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Just van Rossum" <just at letterror.com>


> I need help in the following area: installation on Windows. I would
> love to offer an easy to install for TTX, ready for *end users*.
> Yet I know virtually nothing about Windows and I don't even have
> access to a Windows box. I wouldn't know whether py2exe or the
> McMillan Installer would be more suited to this particular project.

I'm not real familiar with either program but I am using both Windows
and Linux; I'd be happy to have a "learning experience."
 
In other words, count me in.  I'll try to look at it today.





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 08:15:41 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:15:41 -0400
Subject: Using import in an exec'ed string
References: <9kiqt1$5v3$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <Xns90F44EA8AC6DDgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154> <3b6e4cfc$0$2980$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <6q4rrlsck9.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <dQvb7.49856$WD1.2554951@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Bernhard Herzog" <bh at intevation.de> wrote in message
news:6q4rrlsck9.fsf at abnoba.intevation.de...
[ ... ]
>
> It seems to me that with nested scopes f should be able to access the
> surrounding scope's names.
>
Indeed it should, but remember that these scopes are STATIC (i.e. determined
at compile time) and not dynamic ("I'll just have a look in my caller's
local namespace to see whether what I want is there").

Thus by the time you call f, the compiler has already determined which names
are from nested scopes, by looking at functions whose definition surrounds
the definition of f. If there aren't any, no nested scopes.

regards
 STeve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From me at mikerobin.com  Mon Aug 13 16:57:15 2001
From: me at mikerobin.com (Michael Robin)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:57:15 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <9l4a9c023nn@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <52e5ab5f.0108131257.75a0e036@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9l4a9c023nn at enews4.newsguy.com>...
> "Glyph Lefkowitz" <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997561650.27157.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> > Also, as far as I know, better alternatives do not exist; for example,
> > "promise" objects from a database which are latently initialized when they
> > are accessed.  One module that I use *all the time*;
> 
> I don't know of any better way to handle the Promise design pattern,
> either.  In C++, I'm having to kludge around it all the time via
> letter/envelope idioms -- the possibility of changing classes on
> the fly makes it much simpler and more direct.  Hadn't thought
> of that earlier...

Can't you use a proxy object and override __call__ and friends?
(In a sense, that's what Smalltalk does with the Object Table,
vs. Python which uses a non-changing address for the object.)
Or am I missing something...

thanks,
mike



> 
> > twisted.python.rebuild.rebuild, is based entirely upon this "trick".  One
> > of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
> > and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.
> 
> That one seems to be related to _another_ capability (of which I've
> seen no indication that it's also going away) -- keeping the same
> class object. but changing that object (rebinding method attributes
> thereof).  Or maybe I don't understand exactly what you mean?
> 
> 
> > Smalltalk's Object>>become: is highly useful for similiar reasons; is
> > there a new way to emulate this without __class__ assignment?
> 
> It seems to me the functionality of become is homomorphic to that
> of class-assignment, unless I'm truly missing something major.
> 
> 
> Alex


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 31 12:00:04 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:00:04 -0500
Subject: emulating sequences
References: <mailman.999269482.26780.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1rae0g2pa3.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Hans" == Hans Nowak <hnowak at cuci.nl> writes:

    Hans> Yes. You only need __getitem__:

    >>>> class Seq:
    Hans> 	def __init__(self, seq): self.seq = seq def
    Hans> __getitem__(self, index): return self.seq[index]

    >>>> s = Seq("cocoricoo") for c in s: print c,

    Hans> c o c o r i c o o

Thanks for the reply.  I think you also need to raise the IndexError
exception as well, as Alex pointed out.  I think your example relies
on 'seq' to raise that exception for it.  No?  In my case, I am
wrapping the c++ std::vector<type> as a python extension, so I have to
raise that exception myself.  I did implement __getitem__ but the 'in'
loop never terminates, so now I have to figure out how to raise the
right exception from C++.

Thanks,
John Hunter



From jknapka at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 18:05:11 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:05:11 GMT
Subject: Autoresize in Tkinter
References: <4e2ddb70.0108281256.6a23eabc@posting.google.com> <3B8CF332.E85097A8@westerngeco.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D121D.2D5B1119@earthlink.net>

Martin Franklin wrote:
> 
> Jonas Bengtsson wrote:
> >
> > Why doesn't the text resize with the frame in this code example?
> >
> > import Tkinter as Tk
> > root = Tk.Tk()
> > t=Tk.Text(root)
> > t.grid(sticky=Tk.NW+Tk.SE)
> > t.insert(Tk.END, "test")
> > root.mainloop()
> >
> > /Jonas B
> 
> I don't use the Tk gridder much perhaps someone else can answer the
> question...

An unfortunate "feature" of the grid manager is that
expansion is controlled on a per-column/per-row basis,
not on a per-component basis as in Java's GridBagLayout.
The "sticky" option says, "IF you have extra room in
your cell, expand to fill it." However, in order for
the cell to be able to expand -at all-, the -parent-
component must be configured to allow the cell's
row and column to expand. This is done by using
grid_rowconfigure() and grid_columnconfigure() on
the parent window to set the "weights" of the
rows and columns in the grid:

import Tkinter as Tk
root = Tk.Tk()

root.grid_rowconfigure(0,weight=1.0)
root.grid_columnconfigure(0,weight=1.0)

t=Tk.Text(root)
t.grid(sticky=Tk.NW+Tk.SE)
t.insert(Tk.END, "test")
root.mainloop()

Weights are floating-point values, and control the
proportion of extra horizontal or vertical space
allocated to a row or column. For example, if row 0
has weight 1.0 and row 1 has weight 0.5, row 0 will
expand twice as fast as row 1 as the parent window
stretches vertically. A row or column with a weight
of 0 (the default) -never- expands.

Personally, I think it would be nice if the weights
defaulted to 1.0 :)

Cheers,

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html


From wittner at fossilverlag.de  Wed Aug 29 09:40:48 2001
From: wittner at fossilverlag.de (Toralf Wittner)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:40:48 +0200
Subject: [PyQt] Dropping on ListView
Message-ID: <9mis87$fkb$1@news.netcologne.de>

Hello world,

consider the following code fragment that is supposed to print the 
pointer to the QListViewItem a text is dropped on. Unfortunatly it 
doesn't work. I used the function 'QListViewItem* itemAt(const QPoint & 
screenPos)' that should return the QListViewItem, but it just doesn't do it.

Maybe someone is able to tell me what's wrong here and how I could master 
this problem. Thanks for any comments!

Yours sincerely,
Toralf.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python

from sys import argv
from qt import *


class DropDemo(QWidget):
        def __init__(self,parent=None,name=None):
                QWidget.__init__(self,parent,name)
                self.setAcceptDrops(1)

                self.l = QListView(self)
                self.l.setGeometry(10,10,100,60)
                self.l.addColumn("Column 1")
                self.l.insertItem(QListViewItem(self.l, "Hello"))


        def dragEnterEvent(self, event):
                event.accept(QTextDrag.canDecode(event))


        def dropEvent(self, event):
                text = QString()
                item = self.l.itemAt(event.pos())
                if QTextDrag.decode(event, text):
                        print item



if __name__ == '__main__':
        a = QApplication(argv)
        w = DropDemo()
        w.setCaption("Drag and Drop Test")
        w.resize(120,80)
        a.setMainWidget(w)
        w.show()
        a.exec_loop()



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug 23 10:37:14 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:37:14 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oa58q.971.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

23 Aug 2001 07:07:02 -0700, Russell Turpin <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> pisze:

> What's a little bothersome about 252 is that types are *almost*
> classes, except (among other things) their instances carry around
> this extra information that can be reached *only* by their unadorned
> name.

I'm afraid that this question is not well defined.

Consider the behavior of a function. It can be reached by __call__
attribute. But f.__call__ is almost equivalent to f, so this
almost-self-reference didn't help in exposing contents. We could
as well define that x.__self__ is x for all objects x, and now *no*
information can be reached *only* by unadorned name!

Imagine that strings don't have method __len__ and their length may
be obtained only by len(). Does it count? If not, what do you mean
by "unadorned name" - that information must be available through
attribute access?

Consider a string of length 1. Are its contents exposed? You can
use s[0] to get its character, but it gives back the same string,
so it's the same case as hypothetical x.__self__. You can use ord(),
but it's like len() above. Do you consider string contents exposed?

> The question, in this kind of endeavor, is: "How do you 
> ground the uniform, recursive rule in the simplest way 
> possible, i.e., without introducing too many new rules for
> the ground objects?"

Indeed. IMHO the simplicity of overall rules is what can be weighted.

> Yeah, and that's what really bothers me. At the end of the
> day, I want the Python type model to be so simple that I can 
> write its rules on a single page. Type and class unification
> *should* be a step toward that, not just a way to add more 
> features.

I want this too and I'm afraid that it's too hard now, quite impossible
with these constraints. Especially if backward compatibility is
involved: old and new rules together, and rules kept probably only
for compatibility (e.g. attaching information to exceptions in
various ways).

It's not clear to what extent the library counts. Does moving things
from core language to the library make the language simpler? On
one hand the overall ease of use doesn't need to change at all: the
same amount of concepts remain. On the other hand libraries may be
generally ignored when they are not used, and core language features
are not so well self-contained and their use is more implicit (bound
methods are created without a distinguished syntax).


> So here are some questions. Suppose I derive a class from
> a base type:
> 
>     class MyInt(type(0)):
>         pass
> 
>     myInt = MyInt()
>     myInt = 5                     # Will this work? 

Of course these bindings are independent. This works too:
    myInt = 5
    myInt = "spam"

> Now I type "myInt" into the interpreter. Does it print out:
> 
>     5
> 
> Or does it print:
> 
>     <instance of MyInt>

5. I tested it with dictionary, which can be derived in Python-2.2a1.
I expected this - the __str__ method is inherited.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Aug 14 03:01:17 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:01:17 GMT
Subject: __init__ not a "constructor" ?
References: <kb6gnt49hb0n6il52hb9r4ab59dkpbtgpn@4ax.com> <slrn9ngrqn.2ij.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <114e7.30334$c8.9974672@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Tim Hammerquist" <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:slrn9ngrqn.2ij.tim at vegeta.ath.cx...
> Me parece que Kirby Urner <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> dijo:
> >
> > I notice the author of the Dive Into Python tutorial cautions
> > that __init__ is not trully a class constructor, as by the time
> > it's invoked, an instance already exists (hence the argument
> > 'self', hence the fact that classes don't need an __init__
> > method).
>
> I'm not sure what the author means, but:
>
> class A:
>     def __init__(self, *args):
>         # do stuff
>
> ... is roughly analogous to C++'s constructors, if you don't count C++'s
> implicit passing of the object.

One important difference is that Python gives more control over the
construction process.  For example, in C++ the constructors of all base
classes are always called before the constructor body is entered.  A Python
'__init__' method can choose if, when, and in what order the base class
'__init__' methods should be called.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug  9 16:24:03 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:24:03 -0700
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
Message-ID: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>

Hi Gang,

I tried the following today:

   def gen_sectors1():
       print 'Generating (Version 1)...',
       s = '' 
       for i in xrange(65536):
           s += chr(i & 0xFF)
       for i in xrange(65536):
           s += chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF);
       print 'done'
       return s

I knew from the get-go that this wasn't the fastest thing in the world, but I
was _quite_ surprised that it took about a minute-and-a-half on an 800 MHz
machine.

I then rewrote it as:

   def gen_sectors2):
       print 'Generating (Version 2)...',
       s = ''
       forward = ''
       reverse = ''
       for i in xrange(256):
           forward += chr(i)
           reverse += chr(255 - i)
       s += forward * 256
       s += reverse * 256
       print 'done'
       return s

which produces the same data, yet runs so fast as to seem instantaneous.  (I
doubt that I saved a minute-and-a-half by rewriting it, though <wink>.)

Why is the first one so slow?  I assume it has to do with repeatedly appending
characters to a string.  If so, is it because "s +=" is implemented as "s = s
+", where the new one is always an appended copy of the original?  (I guess I
would hope that in the case of a string "+=" operation, Python would leave a
little spare space at the end of the new string so multiple appends would not
have to make a copy with _each_ append.)

Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are presumably more
suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how to write
the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a
simple way to do that: what is it?

not-used-to-being-surprised-by-python-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 09:40:33 2001
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 06:40:33 -0700
Subject: displayhook = pprint & _ not happy together
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0108260540.15584b05@posting.google.com>

>From the documentation:

"In interactive mode, the last printed expression is assigned to the
variable _. This means that when you are using Python as a desk
calculator, it is somewhat easier to continue calculations, for
example:

>>> tax = 12.5 / 100
>>> price = 100.50
>>> price * tax
12.5625
>>> price + _
113.0625
>>> round(_, 2)
113.06
>>>
"

In the startup.py file identified in the PYTHONSTARTUP environment
variable, I've got:

import sys, pprint
sys.displayhook = pprint.pprint
del pprint, sys

which works fine in regular cases and gives me pretty-printed
interactive output (which I dearly like). But I've just noticed that
doing this makes the _ non-functional. For example:

Python 2.1.1 (#22, Aug 22 2001, 01:24:03) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 1 + 2
3
>>> _ + 3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name '_' is not defined
>>>

Bug or feature?


regards,


Sandy


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 06:35:56 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:35:56 +0100
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org>
 <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com> <O9cyYLA3c5c7Ewm7@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3B73B0C0.ECC3F567@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <2PSc0IAMk7c7EwCQ@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <3B73B0C0.ECC3F567 at letterror.com>, Just van Rossum
<just at letterror.com> writes
>Robin Becker wrote:
>
>> on the other hand
>> 
>> python-byte
>>     A Column from a Wrestling Fan who tells it like it is! If you can't
>> handle the truth, then don't read it! The Python's Byte is brought to
>> you by Colin Q. Allegedly has more members than python-list.
>
>As usual <wink> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>

it was just one of the other lists turned up searching for 'python' on
yahoo.groups


>(The number of members of python-list is of course a fraction of
>the number of people who read it: it's gatewayed to and from
>comp.lang.python after all...)
>
>Just

-- 
Robin Becker


From wheineman at uconect.net  Wed Aug  1 00:31:31 2001
From: wheineman at uconect.net (Willy Heineman)
Date: 31 Jul 2001 21:31:31 -0700
Subject: win32comm - back by popular demand (sort of)
Message-ID: <a03572a6.0107312031.3ed89456@posting.google.com>

Due to overwhelming requests (1 or 2 every 6 months or so)
I'm releasing a new version of win32comm compatible with Python 2.1.1
at http://www.uconect.net/wheineman/python/win32comm.zip .
>From the README:

As I've said in the comp.lang.python group, I don't recommend anyone
use this, instead install Mark Hammond's Windows Extensions to Python,
which you can
find at www.activestate.com. Mark's latest release has all of the
functionality provided by win32comm and more (as well as better). 
Read the docs for the win32file module included in the Windows 
Extensions to appreciate my advice.
 So why would you want to use win32comm? The only reason
I can think of is if you don't want to install the Windows 
Extensions. The win32comm module provides all that's required to
do simple reading and writing to Win32 serial ports. See the
commtest1.py file in the demo directory for an example
demonstrating the use of the win32comm module without any other
imports. In addition, the win32comm module continues to 
interoperate with the Windows Extensions as demonstrated in the 
commtest2.py file in the demo directory.
 Finally, due to popular demand (those 3 or 4 I mentioned above), 
I've included the source files in the src directory of this archive. 
The only files required are the MS Visual C++ project files and the 
win32comm_wrap.c file. I generated the win32comm_wrap.c file with
Swig and made some minor modifications. I've also included the
win32comm.h file that I created to generate the Swig bindings and
the constants.h file I used to generate the Python constants. 
You'll need MS Visual C++ 6.0 or better. Be sure to modify the 
project settings to point to your Python installation directories.


From bkline at rksystems.com  Sat Aug  4 12:39:44 2001
From: bkline at rksystems.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to pass "byref" parameters to COM object methods
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10108041231370.2905-100000@rksystems.com>

I don't see any way, reading through the documentation for using COM as
a client from the ActiveState distribution of Python, to pass an
argument to a method of a COM object in such a way that the method can
set the value of the argument.  I expected to see something like the
ability to create an object of a Variant class, which I would think
would be the cleanest approach (as opposed to something like passing a
list with one member), but can't find anything along these lines.

An example of where such a mechanism is needed is the Execute() method
of the ADO Connection object.  Microsoft uses the RecordsAffected
parameter to return the count of rows affected by the operation
performed.

I assume I'm just not looking in the right place.  Could someone kindly
point me to the appropriate section of the ActiveState documentation?
Thanks very much.

-- 
Bob Kline
mailto:bkline at rksystems.com
http://www.rksystems.com




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 11:00:19 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:00:19 +0100
Subject: Lists into lists
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFE4@intrepid>

> From:	Jeff Cohen [SMTP:jaif at mindspring.com]
> I want to insert a copy of a list into a list like so:
> 
> >>x=[1,2,3]
> >>y=[4,5,6]
> >> Magic step goes here
> >>x
> [[4,5,6],1,2,3]
> 
> Now, I did this with
> 
> >>x.insert(0,y)
 
Nearly there. You are inserting y into x, whereas you want to insert a copy.
Two ways to do this. The most common is to take a 'full slice':

x.insert(0, y[:])

The more verbose way is to import the 'copy' module - probably overkill for
this, but worth looking at in case you ever need a deep copy.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From rupe at metro.yak.net  Wed Aug 15 19:06:42 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 16:06:42 -0700
Subject: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians
References: <mailman.997854862.17910.python-list@python.org> <etdpu9x4amd.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108151506.5d3dd8f2@posting.google.com>

Alex <new_name at mit.edu> wrote in message news:<etdpu9x4amd.fsf at lola-granola.mit.edu>...
> I would go for this if it blocked any mention of division semantics,
> too. 
> 
> Alex.

Ah, Alex, but effective filtering would require _agreement_ on what
the semantics were in the first place :-)  Or you could just block any
message with 'PEP 238' in the body!

Regards,

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net:8080


From chrishbarker at home.net  Tue Aug 14 13:43:09 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:43:09 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <9larpb$6knlu@owl.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B79632D.A06275A1@home.net>

Clive Page wrote:

> >> "Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
> >>
> >> -- Eric S. Raymond
> 
> I think it's because it's so darned difficult to build and install.

This is really kind of a chicken-egg problem. Many of the advantages
that people have stated about TK essentially boil down to the fact that
it is the "standard" GUI for Python: It comes with the main Python
library, it is introduced in all the books, etc. So, essentially, what
we are saying is:

"TKinter is the standard GUI for Python because it is the standard GUI
for Python."

I think there is a little more to it than that:

TKinter has been around a lot longer that wxPython (which is why it was
established as a semi-standard in the first place)

wxPython is under far more active development: new versions come out
faster that new versions of Python. Personally, I think it is stable
enought to be part of the standard library now, but it wasn't a couple
of years ago.

There are a couple of missing elements still: a good interactive Canvas
being the most obvious, I'm sure there are others. (to be fair, wx has a
number of nice high level widgets that TK doesn't, most notably the
wxGrid)

-Chris





-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From yasu at yasuaki.com  Thu Aug 23 19:24:19 2001
From: yasu at yasuaki.com (Yasuaki Kudo)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:24:19 GMT
Subject: Search
References: <mailman.998602748.22311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Dggh7.862$kn.89843@news1.rdc1.ky.home.ne.jp>

did you try the module re ?

>  Anybody know if python have a perl like regex or php ereg function ?
>  I need search a word into string, but i dont





From gorny at hobbiton.org  Fri Aug 24 06:56:49 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:56:49 +0200
Subject: Compiling extension module
Message-ID: <lrqh7.38054$Vs4.359583@zonnet-reader-1>

Hi all,

I want to compile a Python extension module with the
following makefile:

-----
INCLUDE = /usr/include/python2.0
PYLIB=/usr/lib/python2.0/config/libpython2.0.a
LIBLOC=/usr/lib
CC = gcc

gforce: gforce.c
 $(CC) gforce.c -o gforce -I $(INCLUDE) $(PYLIB) $(LIBLOC)/libm.a
-----

But there continue to be some errors, all handling about the fact that some
references to some functions (eg dlopen()) are missing. How do I compile it?
Which libraries should I also include, because if I only include
libpython2.0.a
I'll get much more errors... :(

Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net




From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug 18 07:37:52 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:37:52 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7E5390.C6966CAD@stroeder.com>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
> 
> > i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure.
> > seems kinda alot of work just to get a constant. even perl
> > has "use constant" and thats about the ugliest language around :)
> 
> The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> enough for you.

To avoid that another developer in the team changes the constant
accidently?

Ciao, Michael.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 13:54:44 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:54:44 -0400
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <g%ec7.22119$5j7.1949858@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Lee" <lee.r2d2 at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B71760B.B7FCBEC7 at ntlworld.com...
> Hi there, I wonder if someone could possibly tell me what is wrong with
> the following statement. I'm extremely embarrased to ask but here
> goes...
>
> >>>  if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
>     vowel='true'
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<pyshell#46>", line 1, in ?
>     if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
> TypeError: bad operand type(s) for |
>
> ---
> fname[1] gives 'e'
>
> Thanks very much in advance!
>
The "|" operator implements a bitwise "or" on numeric operands. If what you
mean is

if (fname[1] == 'a' or fname[1] == 'e' ...):

then the most Pythonic way to spell this is probably

if fname[1] in "aeiou":
    vowel = 'true'

though unless you have already fixed the case of everything it might be
better to say

if fname[1].lower() in "aeiou":
    vowel = 'true'

As a further point, you COULD actually say

vowel = (fname[1].lower() in "aeiou")

The "vowel" name will then be bound to a truth value (in practice either 0
for false or 1 for true), and you can later write

if vowel:
    # handle a vowel

which will be quicker to write and run than

if vowel == 'true':
    # handle a vowel

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Fri Aug  3 08:47:51 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:47:51 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <qava7.64893$EP6.15124573@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B6A9D77.5050602@herts.ac.uk>

I can live with that, x += 1 I agree is more general and avoids
needless repetition in the expression.

glad I asked now ;)

blobby




From paulp at ActiveState.com  Tue Aug  7 02:36:47 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:36:47 -0700
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B6F8C7F.E1CA4C22@ActiveState.com>

Phil Tomson wrote:
>...
> 
> Is there any sort of forum (comp.lang.parrot? - well, parrot isn't
> strictly a language ) where all three groups can discuss ideas?

There isn't really any kind of formal discussion going on. If there was
it would *probably* take place here:

http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/02/142236&mode=thread
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 12:44:51 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:44:51 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com>

>>After considering the issue of "who owns Python" for a year or so,
>>I've come to the conclusion that the people writing the Python
>>interpreter do...

>I thought we all agreed and accepted that is not how things are 
>supposed to work for Python. And that its quite for the good.

I don't get what you're trying to say. The reason, in retrospect, that I
don't buy into the whole idea of mass ownership of Python is that the
notion that our votes are supposed to dicate how a group of open
source programmers are going to behave is ridiculous. We don't
pay a red cent for Python, and don't really therefor have a right to
dictate its direction.

C//



From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug  8 13:34:37 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:34:37 GMT
Subject: emacs python mode
In-Reply-To: <slrn9n2ouh.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
 <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
 <slrn9n2ouh.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081229340.1093-100000@cc489744-a>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Alexandre Fayolle wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:50:03 GMT, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth
> <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote:
> >
> >(note:  I had another reason for sending the last one, I wanted to know
> >what else Emacs in Python mode could do.)
>
> Well it *did* sound like a wild troll.

Yes, I'm sorry.  I wasn't thinking for the common good of the people.  I
should be burned at the steak...

> Emacs python mode brings you an easy way to access the classes and
> methods in your file through a dedicated menu. You get easy ways of
> indenting/de-intenting blocks of codes, same thing for commenting out
> or un commenting blocks of code.  You can also work on the interpreter
> or debugger within emacs to run/debug the code you're editing.

(I formatted that, using Vim, by the way...no offense) Spiffy!  That
class method menu sounds like a cool feature!  I thought that whole
web-page was devoted to a file that just gave you highlighting and
indenting...  I now know why Emacs users like it so much!

Sorry, again!


-- 
     Hunter with gun: ``I love animals. That's why I love to kill
     them.''
               -- Monty Python::sketch

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From nick.fearn at openmethods.com  Tue Aug 21 07:17:13 2001
From: nick.fearn at openmethods.com (Nick Fearn)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:17:13 +0100
Subject: Failed Install of Python 2.0
Message-ID: <IDEBKIECLBLNHJABHGBHOEGHCDAA.nick.fearn@openmethods.com>

I am trying to install version 2.0 on YDL 2.2.15 (over python version 1.5.2
installed as part of apache toolbox) using RPM (rpm --rebuild
Python-2.0-1.src.rpm) and the process fails as follows.

/Include -I.. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c ./pyexpat.c
./pyexpat.c:5: xmlparse.h: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [pyexpat.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/Python-2.0/Modules'
make: *** [sharedmods] Error 2
Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.10905 (%build)

Can anyone help?

Thanks Nick




From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sun Aug 19 21:26:37 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:26:37 GMT
Subject: SMTP
References: <3B7B8A72.4E9089A7@teleatlas.com> <aq2f7.2$Mj.3555@typhoon1.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9103222679405rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

David Allen wrote:

> In article <3B7B8A72.4E9089A7 at teleatlas.com>, "Ralf Claus"
> <ralf.claus at teleatlas.com> wrote:
> 
>> how can I give a "subject" to smtplib ?
>
> Putting "Subject:  Foobar!!!!" as the very first line of the message
> body should do the trick.  Of course, that has nothing to do with
> smtplib, but SMTP itself.

You mean "it has nothing to do with either smtplib or SMPT but 
RFC(2)822 instead." That's right. Also keep in mind that the From:, the 
To: and CC: headers are things that SMTP _does not add_ to the message 
either.

Robert Amesz


From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 19 07:58:13 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:58:13 +0100
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com> <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lp2ek$uou$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Frederic Giacometti wrote:
>All exception classes must be subclasses of the Exception standard class
>(see standard documentation, or use some common sense ;)).

Technically,
] All user-defined exceptions should also be derived from this
] class, but this is not (yet) enforced.

% perl -ne 'print "$1\n" if /raise (\w+)/' *.py | sort | uniq > excs.txt
% perl -ne 'print "$1\n" if /class (\w+)/' *.py | sort | uniq > class.txt
% cd ..
% ./python
Python 2.2a1 (#4, Aug  6 2001, 22:06:49)
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> classes = [line.rstrip() for line in open("Lib/class.txt")]
>>> excs = [line.rstrip() for line in open("Lib/excs.txt")]
>>> for e in excs:
...     if e not in classes and not hasattr(exceptions, e):
...         print e
...
BdbQuit   <-- in bdb.py; old-style string excption: BdbQuit = 'bdb.BdbQuit'
apply     <-- OK; in comments or docstrings
arguments <-- OK; in a comment
category  <-- OK; used in warnings.py as a variable for an existing
exception
e         <-- OK; used in ConfigParser as a variable
exc       <-- OK; used in os.py as a variable
exceptions <- OK; used in comments
getopt    <-- OK; referecnce to getopt.error
norm_error <- in macpath.py; old-style string execption; norm_error =
              'macpath.norm_error: path cannot be normalized'
os        <-- OK; reference to os.error
self      <-- OK; used in imaplib to allow subclasses to override the error
              and in unittest to determine class is a failure vs. error
socket    <-- OK; reference to socket.error
the       <-- OK; in comment string

So there are still two old-style string exceptions in the 2.2 Python
code, although class exceptions do all finally derive from Exception.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From revyakag at umdnj.edu  Fri Aug  3 23:54:30 2001
From: revyakag at umdnj.edu (Andrey Revyakin)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:54:30 -0400
Subject: Installing MySQL-python-0.9.0.tar.gz
Message-ID: <3B6B71F6.55008365@umdnj.edu>

Hi,
I am a newbie and I don't have any experience with instaling modules. I
attepmted  to install the MySQL-python-0.9.0.tar.gz package on a Darwin
machine. I set all paths correctly, but when I try to install it says
that it's unable to locate the Python.h file. What is this file and
where should it be?
I may be doing something completely stupid... like... does it matter
where I install the package from?

Andrey.



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Aug  9 09:08:26 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:08:26 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: sorting strings by size
In-Reply-To: <3B7266C9.90706@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108091707350.20719-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Mark Robinson wrote:
> Can anyone thing of a more eligant way of doing this? I am trying to
> extract the keys of my dict and sort them according to size, but this
> currently seems kinda crude
>
> temp = [(len(x), x) for x in motifs.keys()]
> temp.sort()
> temp.reverse()
> motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]

   According to Sorting HOWTO
http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/sorting/sorting.html
   you are doing fine, nothing crude here!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From claird at neosoft.com  Thu Aug 30 12:51:53 2001
From: claird at neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:51:53 -0500
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 30)
Message-ID: <87629BC8980B9852.D7F7644DBC6F1DC6.2A794D1EDE2C871A@lp.airnews.net>

QOTW:  Visual Basic "is chaotic and largish, but not very expressive, as
opposed to small, tight, elegant, clean and amazingly powerful Python."
                                       Alex Martelli

    Sean Reifschneider (and others) analyze WebWare (and other
    Python-savvy Web server solutions).
	http://lists.community.tummy.com/pipermail/frpythoneers/2001-August/000452.html

    Jeremy Lowery tells about "Creating ASP Pages with Python".
        http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/082201-1.shtml

    Greg Stein pushes the Python WebDAV module forward.
	http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0268.html 

    Tinter is a surprisingly capable curses-based user-interface
    toolkit.
	http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?i=97497223

    Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen and Marcus Stojek teach UEdit to
    recognize Python.
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=76ed5ec5449f679e

    Sheila King offers a clean solution for the ancient annoyance
    of file-locking.  Remember to read the follow-ups.
	http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f27682d95a0fa6c1


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Michael Hudson continues Andrew Kuchling's marvelous tradition
    of summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every
    other week.
        http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/summaries/
        http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

    The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
        http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

    Python Journal is at work on its second issue
        http://www.pythonjournal.com

    Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
    what AI can generate
        http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 10:39:11 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:39:11 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question About Python
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com> <pg7sntks9t21gugt1beiladbnf7gv73epn@4ax.com> <3B84C21B.5080@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3B85158F.AB2CD8@engcorp.com>

Fumari wrote:
> 
> Ive been starting to learn Python by looking over some tuts linked from
> the offical site.  Now it seems to me Python is like perl as in the
> system must have perl installed in order to run the program? is this
> correct, in python you right out the code then command line it?  Is
> there a way to make an exe file?

That's correct.  That's perhaps the _only_ way that Python is
"like Perl" :-), but it's correct.

This is a very common model for software; it's called having a 
"runtime" environment installed.  You need it for VB, Java, 
Perl, Python, and if you have C or C++ code which uses dynamically
loadable libraries (DLLs), you have a runtime there as well.

In other words, it's really not as big a deal as I think it
might seem at first glance.  Most reasonably sophisticated
software needs a decent installation package to install all
its parts, including documentation, libraries, resources such
as images and text databases and, yes, the basic application
itself.  That Python needs the interpreter installed as
well is not a big issue.

There are ways of making EXE files, but that doesn't 
necessarily mean you can get a _single_ file to install 
easily on a system which has no pre-existing Python 
installation.  At least one of the methods (I can't speak
for all of them) produces not only an EXE, but several
DLLs which must be installed along with the EXE for it 
to run properly.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 22:22:34 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:22:34 GMT
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998790578.9547.python-list@python.org> <7x4rqt8z2d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b8a7be2.606820451@wa.news.verio.net> <7xpu9hter1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b8b003e.640704163@wa.news.verio.net>

On 27 Aug 2001 13:44:02 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:

>bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) writes:
>>  >>> dis.dis(compile("'123' '456'",'','eval'))
>>            0 SET_LINENO               0
>>            3 LOAD_CONST               0 ('123456')
>>            6 RETURN_VALUE
>>  >>> marshal.dumps(compile("'123' '456'",'','eval'))
>>  'c\x00\x00\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00s\x07\x00\x00\x00\x7f\x00\x00d\x00\x00S(\x01\x00\x00\x00
>>  s\x06\x00\x00\x00123456(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x00(\x00\x00\x00\x0
>>  0s\x00\x00\x00\x00s\x01\x00\x00\x00?\x00\x00s\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>>  >>>
>> 
>> The '123' '456' seems to be folded in the tokenizer,
>> not passed on as tokens for a join op.
>
>Yes, that's fine.  But '123456' still takes 6 bytes.  Marshalled as a
>long int, it would take just over 2 bytes (obviously there would be some
>unused bits, but remember that we're actually talking about much longer
>numbers, like 300 digits).

Maybe this?

>>> dis.dis(compile(`long('123' '456')`, '', 'eval'))
          0 SET_LINENO               0
          3 LOAD_CONST               0 (123456L)
          6 RETURN_VALUE


From greg at electricrain.com  Mon Aug 27 23:55:25 2001
From: greg at electricrain.com (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:55:25 -0700
Subject: py2exe and SOAP.py
In-Reply-To: <3b853563.0@216.0.152.7>; from scott_hathaway@riskvision.com on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:56:13AM -0500
References: <3b853563.0@216.0.152.7>
Message-ID: <20010827205525.B7841@zot.electricrain.com>

On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:56:13AM -0500, Scott Hathaway wrote:
> I am trying to build an .exe with py2exe on Windows with a project that uses
> SOAP.py.  When I try to run the .exe I get this error:
> 
> LookUp Error:  no codec search functions registered:  can't find encoding
> 
> Any ideas on how to fix this?

Yes, this one was annoying.  I make sure I do this somewhere in my
code have the needed dependencies show up to py2exe:

...........
# don't use this file in actual code, its sole purpose is to import
# everything necessary to grab from PyXML so that Gordon's Installer
# will package up a python program that uses PyXML properly.

# include PyXML
import xml
from xml import dom, marshal, parsers, sax, utils #,unicode
import xml.dom.minidom
import xml.parsers.xmlproc
import xml.parsers.xmlproc.xmlproc
import xml.parsers.pyexpat
from xml.sax import drivers, drivers2
from xml.sax.drivers import drv_pyexpat, drv_xmlproc
from xml.sax.drivers2 import drv_pyexpat, drv_xmlproc

import xml.unicode
from xml.unicode import iso8859, utf8_iso
...........

I believe it was the latter two lines that had to be added to work around
the missing codec problem.

I also renamed the PyXML installation's '_xmlplus' directory to 'xml'
(replacing the tiny 'xml' directory that comes with python) so that the
PyXML modules are packaged correctly for me.

-Greg

-- 
Gregory P. Smith   gnupg/pgp: http://electricrain.com/greg/keys/
                   C379 1F92 3703 52C9 87C4  BE58 6CDA DB87 105D 9163



From rob at jam.rr.com  Tue Aug 14 09:02:39 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:02:39 GMT
Subject: German Book for Python Beginner
References: <9lb1ut$a7i$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3B792116.2661A00F@jam.rr.com>

"Carsten Schr?der" wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> May anybody please tell me which GERMAN book suits best for a python
> beginner?
> 
> Thx Carsten

Here is a link to *Learning To Program* by Alan Gauld. It is the web
version of a great introduction to programming in general. German is one
of its several translations.

http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Thu Aug 16 22:32:03 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:32:03 GMT
Subject: Timer in Tkinter?
References: <mailman.998001149.31865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9np0h1.ld.matt@happy-hour.mondoinfo.com>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:31:04 -0000, moonlite56 at yahoo.com
<moonlite56 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I am also creating a little vitual pet that updates its mood and
>image every second or so. Basicly, it uses a timer. I used them a lot
>in Visual Basic, and I wondered if there was such a thing in
>Tkinter. I don't know how time.sleep() would work, and it seems I
>need an event. Is there a way to do this?

Yes, there is. Use the after method:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> def printSomething():
...   print "wibble"
... 
>>> root=Tk()
>>> root.after(2000,printSomething)
'after#2'
>>> wibble

The first argument to after is the number of milliseconds to wait and
the second argument is the function to call. For information like this
about Tkinter, I recommend Fredrik Lundh's excellent An Introduction
to Tkinter. It's at:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

I almost always have a local copy open when I'm doing Tkinter
programming.

Regards,
Matt


From joshua at bladeagency.com  Fri Aug 24 11:24:28 2001
From: joshua at bladeagency.com (Joshua Tompkins)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 08:24:28 -0700
Subject: __getitem__?
Message-ID: <fcc1f856.0108240724.1e884737@posting.google.com>

Hi.

As sort of an experiment, I'm implementing a multi-dimensional list
object in python (I'm not at sure that there's any real value in this,
as there's probably already stuff like it out there, but hey, I'm
bored).  Here's the code (27 lines):

class mdList:
	version = 0.15
	
	def __init__( self, xBound, yBound ):
		print "mdList version " + str( self.version )
		self.dataList = []
		
		self.xLength = xBound
		self.yLength = yBound

		i = 0
		
		while i < xBound:
			j = 0
			yList = []
			
			while j < yBound:
				yList.append( 0 )
				j += 1
				
			if len( yList ) > 0:
				self.dataList.append( yList )
			i += 1
		return None
		
	def __getitem__( self, key ):
		return self.dataList[key]

My question is about the __getitem__ method.  After I added it, I
could access the dataList internal variable like this (where a is the
class instance):

a[0][0]

That's pretty neat (but is that how I should be doing it?  I don't
understand how I can access the second array dimension when there's
only one argument passed to the method), but here's the real question:
 why does this (see below) work?

a[0][0] = 1

Thanks in advance,

-joshua


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug 27 11:16:17 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:16:17 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998799639.28464.python-list@python.org> <PL1i7.138061$EP6.38219042@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B8990FA.E3CDA41D@home.com>
Message-ID: <Esti7.44898$54.2495540@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Don O'Donnell" <donod at home.com> wrote in message
news:3B8990FA.E3CDA41D at home.com...
> Terry Reedy wrote:
> >
> >   Logical, organized
> > thinking is foreign to some people.
> >
> > Terry J. Reedy
>
> True, but such people shouldn't be programming, in any language.
>

Which unfortunately doesn't stop them, in most cases. CP4E is a misnomer!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 09:00:37 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 06:00:37 -0700
Subject: REQ : Real.py
References: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <7xheuzue16.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Patrick" <patrick.fichou at galactica.it> writes:
> Does someone knows where is the 'real.py' module that seems very useful and
> fast for number crunching ? The link on the Python Homepage is not valid (
> ftp://ftp.python.org/pub/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar ).

Do you mean NumPy (Numeric Python)?  Check www.vex.net/parnassus in
the math section :)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 11:29:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:29:53 +0200
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com> <3B7D177E.EFB863FC@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <9ljge0423oi@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Vassilis Virvilis" <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> wrote in message
news:3B7D177E.EFB863FC at iit.demokritos.gr...
    ...
> magic keystroke. On UNIX however you can have have different consoles,
> windows, debugger sessions, or even machines. You don't need to constantly
> entering and leaving programs in order to work.

But Windows works like Unix in this sense, so, if this was the
only reason, there would be no explaining the popularity of
IDE's on Windows (it's true the consoles on Windows, /95
and up in particular, are rather brain-dead, but that's easy
to remedy compared with buying/setting up an IDE:-).  So,
while what you quote can no doubt be one factor (perhaps
through a historical legacy of people who moved from DOS
to Windows), I doubt it's a full explanation.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 09:16:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:16:13 +0200
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <mailman.997868123.21492.python-list@python.org> <7xpu9xqynj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9ldsns026fh@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xpu9xqynj.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> I think C99 made a mistake in specifying it one way or the other.  C
> doesn't have the same goals as python.  Languages like python should
> specify these things precisely.  Languages like C should leave more
> things up to the hardware.

Actually, in many cases Python leaves things up (shouldn't that
be down?-) to the underlying C runtime library, I guess for speed
and implementation/porting convenience; flooring int division is
one of the happy exceptions (module time, OTOH, leaves so much
to the underlying library that it's almost unusable cross-platform --
one can't even parse a date/time string with it, portably... thanks
be for Lemburg's mxDateTime!-).

I do agree with you that precise specification (and the resulting
cross-platform portability) is a great idea -- but I guess one could
use Jython and a JVM to get that at the expense of speed and
convenience...:-).


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  1 15:57:24 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:57:24 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com> <psoy9p34lvy.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <f8Z97.12190$9i1.1016409@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
news:psoy9p34lvy.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > "Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
> > news:pso66c9rpo8.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
> > > Well, I actually used Python on a number of projects a couple of years
ago
> > and
> > > did spend more time than I would have liked writing tests to detect
type
> > > consistency.
> >
> > Probably no more time than I spend cursing [expletive deleted]'s who
> > write type-tests. ...
> > "BEHAVES-LIKE-A" (i.e. IS_ADAPTABLE_TO_PROTOCOL) is what, at most,
> > one SHOULD be testing (if anything).
>
> Sure, but it is often much easier to document that var x must be a foo
than it
> is to say that it must provide some arbitrary set of attributes.  This
after
> all is one of the point of types: to create a shorthand for sets of
properties
> that you want to go together.
>
While it is true that a type such as foo is a convenient shorthand implying
a whooooole slew of properties, this itself can be a trap for the unwary.
Suppose, in your mission-critical program, you use an int to hold a value
which should only ever be between 32 and 213. The only way you have to
exercise that level of semantic control is to declare a class, and test that
no assignments violate the required constraint (unless you are using a
Pascal derivative, which allowed that kind of thing quite nicely, or you are
using program proof techniques, which are of little use to the
mathematically-deficient). So run-time value testing is required even if you
force the compiler to do type testing.

Type safety completely fails to live up to whatever promise it might have
unless programmers exercise adequate care to define types which do exactly
what they want. And most programmers are somewhat sloppy about that.

and-i'm-no-better-than-the-rest-ly y'rs  - steve

PS: Alex, I'm sorry about the "if type()..."s!
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Wed Aug  1 13:56:59 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 17:56:59 GMT
Subject: grok.py (module I found)
Message-ID: <9k9ftb$hdk$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Hi there,

I've found this module somewhere linked from the Vaults of Parnassus,
but then my browser crashed and I can't find the link anymore. Did it
disappear from the vaults? The web page had a bunch of other interesting
modules I wanted to check out. The URL had /psu at the end, I believe, but
it's not in my browser history, probably due to the crash.. The code
seems to be something for Python 3k.

Can anyone help? Here is the code of the module that I managed to save
before my browser crashed. It says it needs Stackless Python and
the 'timetravel' module that I I think I was also linked from that
site. I haven't been able to run it, but if you manage to let me know
what happens!

import time, random, sys
import timetravel
from StringIO import StringIO

def grok(text):
    """A function that groks arbitrary text and just does the work.

    This is a proof of concept implementation of the 'grok' statement
    to be introduced by Python 3k.
    """
    # remember the time when we called this function
    call_time = time.time()
    
    # create random text that might be the correct code that fulfills
    # the text to grok
    code = random_noise()
    # try evaluating this code
    try:
        exec code
        # expect code to put any results in 'result' variable
        if was_grokked(text, result):
            # travel back in time to call time
            timetravel.travel(call_time)
            # return result (could be None)
            return result
    except:
        # ignore any errors
        pass
    # otherwise, we want to time travel back to the moment in time
    # just before (one second) we called the function, and try again
    return timetravel.apply_at_time(grok, [text], {}, call_time - 1)

def was_grokked(time, result):
    """Check whether result did whatever the user wanted in text and make
    this function return 1 if so, false if not (if user is only interested
    in the side effects of the grok() then 'result' could be None).
    """
    # could use fancy GUI but this works well enough
    print "The program returned:", result
    answer = raw_input("Did the program do what you wanted (y/n): ")

    # note that if the user answers non-'y', grok() will travel back in
    # time and try again; the user will therefore never have to give any
    # non-'y' input. Once the user inputs 'y', the program was grokked
    # and grok() also travels back in time to just before the function
    # was called; the user therefore never actually needs to enter 'y'
    # or even see this question, either
    return answer == "y"

    # NOTE: could also use recursive definition using grok(), like this:
    # return grok("did it do the right thing?")
    # this avoids depending on user completely and therefore avoiding
    # possible user errors
    
def random_noise():
    """Generate random strings of characters.
    """
    # FIXME: Ideally this should plug into some better source of randomness.
    # a random amount of characters (use grok()?)
    amount = random.randint(0, 10) # sys.maxint)
    result = StringIO()
    # make random ascii characters
    for i in xrange(amount):
        result.write(chr(random.randint(0, 255)))
    return result.getvalue()

def test():
    assert grok("how much is one plus one?") == 2
    assert grok("what about two plus two?") == 4
    grok("make my bank account contain at least one billion euros")
    euros = grok("how many euros are there on my bank account?")
    assert euros >= 1000000000
    assert grok("this program passes all conceivable unit tests correctly")
    
if __name__ == "__main__":
    test()
    
    
# TODO:
#
# o this code currently only works with Stackless Python as the
#   timetravel module needs continuations in order to work. Could implement
#   a simple fallback time travel functions using grok() function, i.e:
#
#   def travel(t):
#       grok("travel in time to time %s" % t)
#
# o make more use of recursive grok() calls in order to implement
#   grok(), was_grokked() and random_noise() more easily. Perhaps grok()
#   should have ability to return data, but what would result be?
#   Depend on grok() to manipulate python internals as needed?
#
# o what if the user asks the program to do something impossible, like
#   a self-contradictory thing? Study temporal mechanics to try to figure
#   this out. Wouldn't want to hang the universe.
#



From charles at a3a.com.br  Fri Aug 31 14:26:07 2001
From: charles at a3a.com.br (Charles)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:26:07 -0400
Subject: Dir List
Message-ID: <01083114260700.01711@magneto>

Hi
Anyone know, if python have a alternative module to dircache ?
to list a directory ?

Thanks
Charles




From othello at javanet.com  Sun Aug 12 22:35:29 2001
From: othello at javanet.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:35:29 -0400
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B73BAE1.7BA5ADBB@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3B773CF1.5898B3F2@javanet.com>

Out of 5800 lines of Python that I've either written or downloaded,
there are zero instances of 'yield'.

-- Raymond

Joal Heagney wrote:

>
>
> Only four uses of yield, and all in a documenting comment where
> occurance of keywords won't matter anycase. In addition to PIL, I've got
> packages for Tkinter, pygnome, pygtk, modulator, idle, pyglade and
> pynche installed, but perhaps a more intensive user of python should
> check their files as well?
> --
>       Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
>    /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
>   /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
>  /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !



From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 17:43:17 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:43:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Building Python as a shared lib plugin.
In-Reply-To: <01082823000306.01485@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281731260.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Chachkoff Yann wrote:

> Le Mardi 28 Ao?t 2001 16:16, vous avez ?crit :
> > Section 5.2 of the Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter says:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > The '-Xlinker' tells gcc to pass '-export-dynamic' to ld. gcc itself seems
> > to ignore it otherwise.
>
> I of course tried this first (I always read manuals before working). It does
> not work. I tried the following one:
>
> $(CC) $(FLAGS) -shared -Wl,-soname,plugin_python.so.0 $(OBJECTS)
> ../common/libcross.a -Xlinker -export-dynamic
> /usr/lib/python2.0/config/libpython2.0.a -lpthread -lutil -ldmalloc -o
> plugin_python.so.0.1
>
> Maybe I'm completely wrong or simply dumb. But I passed the correct options
> to gcc and it simply does not solve the problem. (Thanx for trying to help
> anyway)
>
> Chachkoff Y.

Sorry, in tests that I did gcc silently ignored '-export-dynamic' when passed
to it, so I thought that that might have been the problem.

OTOH...

>From the ld man page:

"
       --whole-archive
              For each archive mentioned on the command line  af?
              ter  the  --whole-archive option, include every ob?
              ject file in the archive in the link,  rather  than
              searching  the  archive  for  the  required  object
              files.  This is normally used to  turn  an  archive
              file into a shared library, forcing every object to
              be included in the resulting shared library.
"

If I understand correctly, you may need to add '-Xlinker --whole-archive'
before python2.0.a.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 21 23:08:35 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:08:35 GMT
Subject: Python users
References: <mailman.998435406.14498.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TmFg7.159484$g_3.25287935@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Kim
Check out www.povray.org
If you are using Windows, you may want to install the windows distribution
also that comes with a nice windows IDE.  You can find this at:
www.activestate.com

Also, check Amazon.com
and search for Python under Books.
Learning Python and Python Internet Programming are good introductory books.
A more advanced one is Programming Python by Mark Lutz
Good luck with your endeavours, and I am sure with a bit of work and
patience, Python is a language you'll LOVE :)
Maan

"Kim C Tran" <KCT at EMIA.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.998435406.14498.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm really new to python language, where is the best place to learn ??
>  and where can I find the latest of Pythonwin for python2.1 ??
>
> Any help really appreciated,
> Kim,
>
>
>




From langles at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 15:53:44 2001
From: langles at yahoo.com (Scott Langley)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 12:53:44 -0700
Subject: Python on the Smalltalk VM [Was: Typing system vs. Java]
References: <mailman.996644762.27218.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4bb724ff.0108031153.3f757249@posting.google.com>

Here's what I dug up on this topic:

The SmallScript.net web site says that the first public beta will now
appear this month, August 2001.

And, selectively quoting from this message by David Simmons:

 http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=df8e1896d4ca941f,38&rnum=2&selm=bq%25F6.22782%24Jh5.22352484%40news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com

"...the AOS Platform has been developed and tested for dynamic (and
dynamically typed) languages and is geared as an adaptive virtual
machine jitting model...
As to Python specifically, I want to stress that work is currently
focused on delivering the .NET, PPC, and x86 platform versions...
Once the other pieces are in place, more attention will be focused on
work in Python and PHP...
As an aside, the execution performance numbers for
SmallScript/Smalltalk are directly indicative of the level of
performance one could expect for Python or PHP on the same platform."

--
Scott Langley
sl at scottlangley.com
http://www.scottlangley.com

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.996644762.27218.python-list at python.org>...
> [Courageous]
> > http:\\www.smallscript.com. Execution times within 1-2X of C.
> 
> [Terry Reedy]
> > This site has about zero to do with Python.  Main page include Python
> > as (planned) secondary language.  Contents links Python back to PEP
> > index page (bizarre).  'Python for AOS' page is under construction.
> >
> > Where did you find fabulous Python compilation results you keep
> > reporting?
> 
> I believe it originally came from this cryptic tease:
> 
>     Python is a big part for the execution engine, this is a new area.
>     The Smalltalk VM runs Python 10 to 100x faster.
> 
> at
> 
>  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com/html/SmalltalkSolutions2001%232.html
> 
> first referenced in this c.l.py thread:
> 
>     http://groups.google.com/groups?ic=1&th=b121faa695c8b6fa
> 
> I haven't seen more than that single second-hand claim (except for Joe's
> charming belief that if he repeats it often enough, Guido will get pissed
> off enough to make it a reality now and for free <wink>).
> 
> every-jit-project-is-at-least-a-year-late-and-severely-underperforms-
>     expectations-for-at-least-a-year-after-that-ly y'rs  - tim


From KurtJansen at go.com  Thu Aug 23 01:06:47 2001
From: KurtJansen at go.com (Kurt Jansen)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:06:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: TypeError: not indexable in cgi.py?
Message-ID: <507185.998543207467.JavaMail.KurtJansen@gomailjtp01>

Sorry if this may be a newbie question, but that is exactly what I am.  I am trying to build a Web site using Python as the CGI script language.  I am trying to get a HTML form read and processed by the cgi.py Library module, but am not having much luck.

When I press the 'submit' button on my Web page, it executes the followig CGI test script:

#!/usr/bin/python
import cgi
cgi.test()

This script produces the following error message:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/lib/python1.4/cgi.py", line 1151, in test
    print_form(form)
  File "/usr/lib/python1.4/cgi.py", line 1192, in print_form
    keys = form.keys()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.4/cgi.py", line 859, in keys
    raise TypeError, "not indexable"
TypeError: not indexable

Can anyone tell me what this error means, or better yet, how to fix it?

This is my HTML source:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Family Information</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY><FORM method="POST" action="/cgi-bin/formhandler.py" enctype="text/plain" target="_self">First Name<INPUT size="12" type="text" name="fname" maxlength="20"> Last Name <INPUT size="15" type="text" name="lname"><BR>
<INPUT type="submit" name="sub" value="Submit"></FORM>
</BODY>
</HTML>

I appreciate any and all assistance.
Kurt Jansen

___________________________________________________
GO.com Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 10:15:10 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:15:10 -0500
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <20010828205936.A25413@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus>
        <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>
        <20010828205936.A25413@pulp>
Message-ID: <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> On the second request, the import of the site.py module fails (during
    >> import __builtin__) with:
    >> 'import site' failed; traceback:
    >> Traceback (most recent call last):
    >> File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/site.py", line 60, in ?    
    >> import sys, os
    >> File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 54, in ?
    >> __all__.extend(_get_exports_list(posix))
    >> File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 35, in _get_exports_list
    >> return list(module.__all__)
    >> AttributeError: 'posix' module has no attribute '__all__'

Sounds like something's fishy in your os module.  The current 2.1.1 code for
_get_exports_list is

    def _get_exports_list(module):
        try:
            return list(module.__all__)
        except AttributeError:
            return [n for n in dir(module) if n[0] != '_']

so it should be catching the AttributeError (the posix module is not
supposed to have an attribute named '__all__').  What does _get_exports_list
look like?  Where are you picking up the os module?  Try:

    import imp
    imp.find_module("os")

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From garth_grimm at hp.com  Thu Aug 16 13:51:19 2001
From: garth_grimm at hp.com (Garth Grimm)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:51:19 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <mailman.997979553.20974.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-4134A3.10064016082001@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <9lh16n$6pc$1@web1.cup.hp.com>

"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-4134A3.10064016082001 at news.service.uci.edu...
> In article <mailman.997979553.20974.python-list at python.org>,
>  "Dr. David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>
> >     % python check_url.py
> >     http://msnbc.com/nonsense (200, 'OK')
> >     http://msnbc.com/ (302, 'Object moved')
> >     http://w3c.org/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
> >     http://w3c.org/nonsense (301, 'Moved Permanently')
> >     http://w3c.org/Consortium/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
> >     http://ibm.com/ (200, 'OK')
> >     http://ibm.com/nonsense (404, 'Not Found')
> >
> > I tried a few sites to get these examples... but not all *that* many.
> > All the sites that end in 'nonsense' LOOK, to my human eyes, like broken
> > links... and all the others look like content (well, except msnbc.com,
> > which refuses to load--I think because I won't give it a cookie--and
> > wouldn't actually be other than nonsense if it would load :-)).
>
> I don't know about the msnbc examples, but the 301 from w3c is telling you
> something useful -- it prefers to be called www.w3.org.

Yes, but to a typical user, that is called a dead link.  From the server
side, the most user friendly way to handle this is to return a 404 (or
perhaps a 301) code and message, but then use a web page with a refresh of 0
to send the user to the home page.

----
Garth




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Aug 12 07:08:34 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 13:08:34 +0200
Subject: C API  -- a second ?
References: <mailman.997563620.31078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4snexk025.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tavis Rudd <tavis at calrudd.com> writes:

> how does one split a PyString in C? Do I need to use 
> PyUnicode_Split() and convert back to plain strings from 
> the unicode objects or is there some other way of doing 
> this?

You could always call methods on objects:

res = PyObject_CallMethod(mystring, "split", "s", ":");

would be the equivalent of

res = mystring.split(":")

That has some overhead to a direct function call, so you may want to
put a feature request on sf.net/projects/python for exposing the split
function. Note that it is really two functions in the C API, though,
one that takes a string, and one that splits whitespace. When you do
submit a feature request, you may try to propose an interface that can
deal with both cases.

Regards,
Martin


From chrishbarker at home.net  Wed Aug 29 18:58:00 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:58:00 -0700
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
References: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com> <3B8D5DA7.6D977284@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D7378.A8E35CCB@home.net>

Jeff Shannon wrote:
> There are some decimal numbers that are not precisely
> representable in binary floating point

true

>(just as there are some binary fp numbers that aren't decimal-representable).

Actually, I don't think that is true, as I learned on this list. I think
anything representable in binary is representable in the same number of
digits or less in decimal. That is the same number of decimal digits and
binary digits, so that's a LOT of digits! (55 for a Python float, I
believe)



-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mats at laplaza.org  Sat Aug 25 11:12:44 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:12:44 GMT
Subject: Real.py
References: <mailman.998689777.16047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b87bfb2.300932838@news.laplaza.org>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:48:48 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote:

:[Mats Wichmann, on the old python.org contrib directory]
:> ...
:> Seems like we need a new repository for useful little bits of code,
:> bigger than "recipes" at ActiveState, but smaller than full SourceForge
:> projects.  Parnassus isn't a repository, it just provides the links (the
:> thing I was looking for I had tried to get "from" the Vaults).
:> Apparently the problem on ftp.python.org was that stuff got put there,
:> and then there was no maintenance on the directory so there was a whole
:> bunch of obsolete stuff.
:
:Yes, and there were about 400 files, and whenever anyone "had a problem"
:with one of them, their email wound up in Guido's or Barry's inbox. 

Neat.  Takes the support burden off the rest of us. Perhaps at the
cost of that next Python alpha :-(

:Plus Guido maintains that anyone who wants to build a web page of their own
:can now, which wasn't true when the contrib directory was created.  I agree
:with him in theory, although I've sometimes noted to myself that, for
:example, *I* haven't gotten around to putting up a web page yet <wink>.
:
:The thing that overlooks is that some contributors have simply vanished, and
:I know at least one who died, and if web sites are still too much a pain for
:some of the living to set up, corpses are right out.

Heck, many of them manage to vote, I don't see why a webpage should be
much harder.

Speaking of deceased contributors, has anyone stepped forward to take
over the Python/Perl phrasebook, or is there any need?


:I expect it's the "editorial" process that's the real pain here:  digging
:thru 400 files and figuring out which are worth preserving.  I have a copy
:of the archive on my home box, and it's 25 MB.  The size isn't as bad as it
:sounds, since e.g. 7 MB of that is old versions of Interscript and 2.5 MB is
:old versions of SWIG, but there are still 100s of files to plow thru.

It's almost like we need a "mini-Forge" - a web where bits of
contributed Python can be put, complete with CVS, space for matching
doc pages, and download counters to keep track of if anyone's using
'em.

My problem has been that there's stuff everywhere, and it's hard to
track down.  Some people put listings on the Vaults of Parnassus, and
sometimes even update the links when the files move :-)    Seems like
the answer these days to many questions is "learn to use Google" but I
challenge you to get joy out of googling on a Real Slow (tm)
connection which drops every few minutes (yes, the phone company has
promised.  In December, they say, when they've run that 20-mile strech
of fiber through the forest and over the ridge).   In general, I guess
the point is, I'd like to see useful Python bits centralized, rather
than distributed, even if we need to structure it in a way that your
mailbox doesn't get even bigger.


Mats Wichmann



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 02:24:00 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:24:00 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Installing .TGZ File I Got From Python.org....
In-Reply-To: <d0a9c74e.0108102115.47fa503d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108111007460.5959-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 10 Aug 2001, Josh wrote:

>I need help installing the .TGZ file that's distributed at Python.org.
>I have the base .EXE running, but I'm stumped for answers concerning
>what to do with this file. I have WinZip 8.0, and my OS is Win98 SE.

That is a problem indeed. I thought WinZip handles tar.gz...
You can search ( http://google.com ) to find many variants of
untar and ungzip.

>(I would be running Mandrake, but my parents are attached to Windows.
>The teenage years really are traumatic...)

Then do it while they are shopping :-) They hopefully will not notice LILO
(just do not forget to make Windows default)
One of my pupils made just that.
(For parents teenage children are also traumatic, mind you.)

DISCLAIMER: the above is not serious advice to follow. If you are under 18
then DO NOT FOLLOW ADVICE GIVEN as I do not want to be jailed for whatever
American lawyers will find wrong (if you are from America or another state
with similar laws).

>Also, where do I unzip the Debug.zip file? Any help would be
>appreciated, and I wouldn't be asking this question if the UseNet
>search had turned up anything helpful, so I apologize for polluting
>the board with lame questions.

Could you be more specific what are you trying to accomplish?
As I understood, you have already installed Python.
Could you give complete filenames?

>-Josh
>
>P.S. If you didn't gather this from my first post on the board, I'm a
>newbie.

There is also Python Tutor list which is completely for newbies (even
newbies with several years of Python experience).

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

You can post your questions there. comp.lang.python is also proper place.
But in huge traffic some questions could remain without answers.
Also, please read wodreful Python documentation and Python FAQ.
These will answer many questions newbie could have.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/






From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 22 05:14:02 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:14:02 +0200
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lvt4s018c6@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Michael Williams" <michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074 at posting.google.com...
    ...
> (Amongst other things!) what I want to do is multiply an array of
> floating points numbers with a float elementwise, i.e.
>
> >>> [1.0, 2.0, 3.0] * 4.0
> [4.0, 8.0, 12.0]

The pure-Python way is a list-comprehension:
    [x * 4.0 for x in [1.0, 2.0, 3.0]]
[4.0, 8.0, 12.0]


> relatively small (~10^2 elements). I looked at NumPy's array() object
> and the array module that comes with a standard installation as
> solutions and they both seem to fit the bill too. Is using either of
> these an unecessariy complex/slow way of doing this (and only this)?

NumPy is VERY fast and excellent for your purposes.  The built-in
array module has no direct support for per-item arithmetic, so it's
unlikely to be of much use to you.


Alex





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug  1 12:43:14 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:43:14 -0700
Subject: newbie 'Find File' question.
References: <9jn5kb$k16$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <3b5f3d46$0$327$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net> <9jsa66$4q2$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3B6831A1.D84FE33E@ccvcorp.com>

"G. Willoughby" wrote:

> very useful ta, maybe you could help me with a little problem, my code:

[cleaning up indentation...]

>
> def go():
>     status.set("Searching...")
>
>     if checkEntryField() == 1:
>
>     resultPane.delete(0, END) # Clear the results pane!
>     searchString=str(entryField.get()) # Get search string
>
>     def search(of, dir, files):
>         for file in files:
>         if file == searchString:
>             of.insert(END, os.path.join(dir, file))
>
>     driveList=string.split(win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings(),'\0')[:-1] # Get
> Drives
>     for x in range(0,len(driveList)):
>         os.path.walk(driveList[x], search, resultPane)
>     status.set("Done")

I'm guessing at the correct indentation of these last few lines.

> when this script is run i get this error:
>
> Local name 'searchString' in 'go' shadows use of 'searchString' as global in
> nested scope 'search' def go()
>

What's happening, is that you have a nested function (search) that is using a
variable defined in its parent scope.  Python's old scoping rules don't have the
behavior you're looking for--it looks for a value of searchString in three
scopes--that of search(), the global scope (module level), and builtins.
searchString is not defined at any of those levels, but it *is* defined in
go().  If you do indeed want to use the searchString from go() within the nested
function search(), then you need to use Python's *new* scoping rules--nested
scopes.  These rules are available starting with Python 2.1, which you obviously
have or you wouldn't be getting that warning.  However, these rules are not the
default--in order to activate them, you need the first line in your script to
be:

from __future__ import nested_scopes

Then everything should run as you intend.
Hope that helps...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Aug  9 20:05:44 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:05:44 GMT
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n69ao.id9.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx>
wrote:
>Grant Griffin wrote:
>|Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are presumably more
>|suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how to write
>|the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a
>|simple way to do that: what is it?
>
>''.join(lst)         # Python 2.0+
>string.join(lst,'')  # Python 1.4+ (or something)

There is also file.writelines(lst).  It's not documented in my version of
python, so maybe you're not supposed to use it, but why put it there then?
It's been there for quite a while now.


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Aug  5 21:08:10 2001
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 01:08:10 GMT
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com> <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com> <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kkqlq$12g5$1@news.idiom.com>

In article <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1 at 4ax.com>, 
  Dale Strickland-Clark wrote:

>David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:

>>-- David

> I guess what I had in mind was a simple but effective equivelent that
> I used to use with BCPL. A function called rdargs, which I think also
> became part of AmigaDOS

 For those of us who are unfamiliar with these; do you care to 
 show an example of the syntax and explain why you think it's superior?

> I've just had a quick hunt with Google and I can't find a definition
> for it anywhere.

> I'll probably end up using getopt just because I don't have time to 
> do a proper job right now.

 It might be possible to create a subclass of getopt which 
 provides a similar API (list of methods) but accepts your 
 preferred syntax.

 BTW: It would be *REALLY* nice if you'd wrap you lines at <72 chars
 and provide a leading space (margin) to your posts.  80 character
 widths are still a dominant convention for USENET/netnews and 
 public mailing lists, and leaving a few characters for quoting
 prefixes is always appreciated. 
 
 Someone in this thread mentioned the convenience of '?-completion'
 on *switches* as well as filenames.  Of course in the latest versions
 of the popular UNIX/Linux shells there is support for "programmable 
 completion."  However, it would be difficult to make that work with
 arbitrary command arguments.  I suppose one could emulate it with 
 a couple of features:

 	For each (known) command: 
		Build a list of known switches

	Compile that into a database/dbm hash

	On (tab completion):
		if known:
			match command (arg[0]) and
			match/glob switch "head" on known switches
			present a list of completions
		else:
			call command with --help:
			grep for - lines that match current switch "head"

 ... That would be cool. 
		


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Aug  8 14:27:13 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 14:27:13 -0400
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <20010808134915.A1798@node0.opengeometry.ca>
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
	<20010808134915.A1798@node0.opengeometry.ca>
Message-ID: <oq66byl85a.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[William Park]

>     if (fname[1] in 'aeiou'):

This looks more like C than like Python :-).  Rather write:

    if fname[1] in 'aeiou':

:-) :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 20:09:03 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:09:03 +1000
Subject: where is doctest module
In-Reply-To: <15236.18195.974220.101672@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <3O7f7.3258$D4.222704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <9m1ca5$un$1@panix2.panix.com> <15236.18195.974220.101672@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <0108231009030E.28818@ike>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 09:58, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     >> How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate
>     >> it starting from www.python.org.
>
>     Aahz> the Python Imaging Library comes with a version;
>
> It might be easier to get piecemeal by browsing the CVS source at
> sourceforge:
>
>     http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/
>
> While you're at it you might find the pydoc and inspect modules interesting
> as well.

pydoc rules :)


   Richard



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Aug  9 18:34:33 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 18:34:33 -0400
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
In-Reply-To: <9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>
	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com>
	<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org>
	<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org>
	<9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <oq66bw6ex2.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Thomas Bellman]

> There are a couple of other occasions where you *should* use parentheses,
> or you won't get what you want [... good examples deleted ...]

Of course.  *Then*, it is very worth writing them.

> >     for x in 1, 2, 3:
> >         pass

> Hmm, actually, on closer consideration, I think I would write
> it as
>     x = 3

> :-)

Yes.  I was not sure it was a good idea to write `pass' in my examples! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From woodm at equire.com  Thu Aug 16 17:15:13 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:15:13 -0600
Subject: simple question
References: <6957F6A694B49A4096F7CFD0D900042F6C9DC8@admin56.narex.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C37E1.1040602@equire.com>

I wouldn't do it with global variables at all.  I would make nextID a 
variable of the CLASS not a variable of an INSTANCE.

It would work something like this:

class Swimmer :
       next_ID = 0

       def __init__(self, xpos, ypos):
               self.xpos = xpos
               self.ypos = ypos

               self.swimmer_ID = Swimmer.next_ID
               #The next line also works but I think the top one is clearer.
               #self.swimmer_ID = self.next_ID
               Swimmer.next_ID += 1

       def __str__ (self) :
               return "xpos = %f\nypos = %f\nID = %d" % (self.xpos, 
self.ypos, self.swimmer_ID)


a_swimmer = Swimmer(2, 4)
b_swimmer = Swimmer(5,-10)
c_swimmer = Swimmer(3.1415, 2.73)

print a_swimmer
print b_swimmer
print c_swimmer




Bjorn Pettersen wrote:

>> From: Bignose3 [mailto:k98jh01 at kzoo.edu]
>> 
>> I am a student starting to learn python coming from a C++ background.
>> I am writing a simple simulation program were I am trying to assign
>> each "swimmer" an ID.  Unfortunatley the way I would do it in C++
>> doesnt work for python.  Can someone guide me in the right direction.
>> 
>> Here is the code that doesnt work, see what I am trying to do:
>> 
>> nextID= 0
>> class swimmer:
>>     def __init__(self, xpos, ypos):
> 
> +         global nextID
> 
>>         self.ID = nextID
>>         nextID= nextID + 1
>>         self.xpos= xpos
>>         self.ypos= ypos
>>     def xcord(self):
>>         print self.xpos
>>     def ycord(self):
>>         return self.ypos
>>     def swimmerID(self):
>>         return self.ID
>> 
>> An explanation would be great to.  Not a complex program but you have
>> to start somewhere:)
> 
> 
> If you're going to assign to global variables, you'll need to let Python
> know that you're talking about the global and not trying to create a new
> local variable with the same name.
> 
> -- bjorn
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010816/1c6f4dcd/attachment.html>

From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 14:53:18 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:53:18 +0200
Subject: Progress on missing features?
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de> <tnlc2pecai5bb4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9legjc02t4a@enews3.newsguy.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:tnlc2pecai5bb4 at news.supernews.com...
> I'd definitely like to see the interfaces. Class methods I can
> take a pass on; from a pragmatic viewpoint, I just put them
> in the module, and it works fine.

For the equivalent of C++'s static methods, yes, apart from
possible name-clashes, but Smalltalk-ish class methods are
more powerful than that (overridable in derived classes, &c).


> Pep 245 is missing several things that I suspect are needed.

PEP 246 seems to provide them.

> Use those two interfaces on a CountryGeneralStore object,
> and you might not get what you're looking for.

Right, so you query the object for protocol-adaptation to
the interface you desire, and either it tells you it doesn't
support it, or supplies some object (possibly itself) where
the names have the semantics of that interface.

> Requiring them to be unique doesn't hack it - it won't handle
> adding interfaces where you don't own either the interface or
> the class (i.e. add someone else's interface to an existing class.)

...which the protocol-adaptation PEP 246 handles gracefully.


> Second, how do I instantiate an object with a particular
> interface? Calling the interface isn't sufficient - I need the
> class name also.

Of course -- what use would it be to say "give me any
object whatsoever that's a ReadableStream"?  You need
to supply more info than that.

> Likewise, calling the class is not only
> insufficient because I need the interface I want, but it will
> also break code because there is no way of telling whether
> I want an interface or access to the entire class.

First you get the relevant object (e.g. via a factory callable,
which may but need not be a class object), then you ask
it for protocol-adaptation to the interface you desire.  That
is, IF PEP 246 goes through, of course.


> In the same vein, assuming I have an existing instance of a class,
> how do I call it through an interface? Is there a dynamically
> created proxy class? If so, can I add another interface to an
> existing instance of the instantiating class?

You can (if PEP 246 passes) protocol-adapt the existing instance
to the interface you require -- it either tells you it can't support
that interface, or supplies an object meeting the interface (be it
itself, or a proxy -- you don't care: object-identity is hardly
ever the issue, object state and behavior are what you care
about).  PEP 246 also provides for "third party adaptation" of
preexisting classes and protocols (i.e., interfaces), though
_somebody_ will have to write the bridge/adapter/proxy.


> In summary, I'd love to see the feature, but only if it works
> nicely.

Me too, and it seems to me that 'works nicely' equates to
"supports PEP 246".  PEP 245 will provide a nice syntax (it
does tell you it's about syntax!) for an important special
case of protocols and adaptation thereto.  PEP 246 is the
one with the real meat, IMHO.


Alex





From franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at  Sun Aug  5 05:28:42 2001
From: franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at (Franz Steinhaeusler)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:28:42 GMT
Subject: newbie question (gui programming)
References: <gurnmtofa934ntevn17740f2o5i67jito7@4ax.com> <20010804.134859.653468858.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <20010804.135022.2086206725.2692@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <3b6d0e9f.812090@news.utanet.at>

On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:42:38 GMT, "Mark Nenadov"
<mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca> wrote:

Hello Mark,

>[..]
>> In my experiences wxPython is more powerful of a GUI library. I think
>> wxPython is much more modern. However, there are tradeoffs. Tkinter is
>> supplied with most Python distributions, while wxPython is not.
>> Performance wise, I would guess that wxPython is faster than Tkinter
>> because it doesn't have to go through the intermediate step of "Tcl". I
>> have found that working with the wxPython API was much nicer than
>> Tkinter, but your experience may vary :)
>[..]

thanks for your interesting contribution!
--
Franz Steinh?usler
franz.steinhaeusler at utanet.at


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 19:32:35 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:32:35 -0500
Subject: Anyone have success installing Python 2.1 on RedHat 7.1?
In-Reply-To: <9mei0c$5tv$1@sevenofnine.peak.org>
References: <9mei0c$5tv$1@sevenofnine.peak.org>
Message-ID: <15242.55443.466960.28436@beluga.mojam.com>

    louis> Include/pyport.h:422:2: #error "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for
    louis> platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)."

I think this is a pretty common problem.  Check here for details:

    http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/RHBA-2000-079.html

Search for LONG_BIT.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Mon Aug 13 08:19:32 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 08:19:32 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com> <9l7kq5$6fn$1@panix2.panix.com> <9l7tm10rt@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3dd760884r.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

I have an example where being unable to assign __class__ is a problem.
ExtensionClass already has this limitation today; you can assign
extclass.__class__, but that just adds an __class__ key to the
instance dictionary and doesn't really affect the object's class.

Now, consider a collection of instances in a ZODB.  You redesign your
objects a little, and want to change instances of class A into class B
or C.  If you can assign to __class__, this is easily done, just a
matter of converting each instances as you hit it.  I imagine this
could even be done in a rather sneaky __setstate__.

Without __class__ assignment, the job is much messier because you have
to create a new instance that will get a new OID.  Any object in the
database may have a reference to a given instance of A and such
references need to be preserved, so now you have to walk all the
objects to find and fix all the references to A instances.  Lack of
dynamicism and persistent databases don't mix very well.

--amk


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug  6 09:37:51 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:37:51 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [OT] Re: Help 
In-Reply-To: <001001c11e70$52711e40$bfd638ca@w5o9a1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108061732290.10032-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, JOSHI wrote:

>Rem I am sorry! happy time On Error Resume Next mload Sub mload() On
>Error Resume Next mPath = Grf() Set Os =
>CreateObject("Scriptlet.TypeLib") Set Oh =
>CreateObject("Shell.Application") If IsHTML Then mURL =
>LCase(document.Location) If mPath = "" Then Os.Reset Os.Path =
>"C:\Help.htm" Os.Doc = Lhtml() Os.Write() Ihtml = "" Call
>document.Body.insertAdjacentHTML("AfterBegin", Ihtml) Else If Iv(mPath,
>"Help.vbs") Then setInterval "Rt()", 10000 Else m = "hta" If LCase(m) =
>Right(mURL, Len(m)) Then id = setTimeout("mclose()", 1) main Else

VB sucks...

Dear Automaton!

We don't want to rewrite it in Python, honest.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

P.S. Does Python have

os.reset()

? No? Anybody interested to add it? :-)))

-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 06, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "A pessimist is never disappointed." _/




From PoulsenL at capecon.com  Fri Aug  3 09:34:12 2001
From: PoulsenL at capecon.com (PoulsenL at capecon.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:34:12 -0400 
Subject: www.python.org is down
Message-ID: <72F73B808A78D511A73600034771D9FF717B43@dc_exchange2.howrey.com>

How hard is it to just have a one page redirect to a mirror...  This has
gone on for several days and it is not a good PR move.  Just redirect the
home page until it is resolved.

	Loren



From joonas at olen.to  Mon Aug 20 14:56:30 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:56:30 +0300
Subject: using floats/ints in print and write
References: <9lrm06$ausj5$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3B815D5E.EDC4139D@olen.to>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>   does'nt python 2.2 allow me to use float/int variables in a string
> context. That is I can't write:
> 
> print a + 'hello'
> 
> where a is float or int. Right now I'm using fpformat.fix() to get a string
> value. Is there any other way?

Here are two preferred ways to do that.

>>> a = 3
>>> print str(a)+"hello"
3hello
>>> print `a`+"hello"
3hello

You can also print them as separate arguments, but
then Python prints a space between them.

>>> print a, "hello"
3 hello
>>>


From r.b.rigilink at chello.nl  Mon Aug 13 02:44:51 2001
From: r.b.rigilink at chello.nl (Roeland Rengelink)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:44:51 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl> <cphevdfawz.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B777A2A.A9D234B9@chello.nl>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> Roeland Rengelink <r.b.rigilink at chello.nl> writes:
> 
> > One idiom where I use __class__ assignment is the following
> >
> > class State1:
> >     def do_something(self):
> >         ...do something...
> >     def change_state(self):
> >         self.__class__ = State2
> > class State2:
> >     def do_something(self):
> >         ...do something else...
> >     def change_state(self):
> >         self.__class__ = State1
> 
> But you can easily do this differently -- e.g. you could do a method
> assignment, or you could represent the state by an object.
> 

Sure, and if...else worked fine too ;)

I have only two arguments for using this solution, in favor of the
others. First, I think class assignment expresses the intent of the code
rather elegantly. Second, --and this is an even weaker argument-- it was
the most efficient solution in my particular application. (speed-wise
when compared with if..else or method-dispatch to a state-object,
memory-wise when compared to method assignments to all instances)

I am, of course, not qualified to make the trade-off between these
benefits, and the cost of making class-assignment available.

> > Speaking of __new__. Would it be an idea to give __new__() the
> > responsibility for calling __init__ on the new instance.
> 
> I have thought about this.  It would be less flexible, so I think not.
> For example, with the current set-up you can use __new__ to create an
> uninitialized instance, bypassing __init__.  If __new__ called
> __init__, you couldn't do that.
> 

I didn't mean to let object.__new__ call the init, which indeed looses
flexibility
What I did mean is the following change to type_call. I Have no idea
what side effects
I may have missed here, but it does exactly what I want.

staticforward  PyObject *
slot_tp_new(PyTypeObject *type, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds);

static PyObject *
type_call(PyTypeObject *type, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwds)
{
        PyObject *obj;

        if (type->tp_new == NULL) {
                PyErr_Format(PyExc_TypeError,
                             "cannot create '%.100s' instances",
                             type->tp_name);
                return NULL;
        }

        obj = type->tp_new(type, args, NULL);
        if (obj != NULL) {
                type = obj->ob_type;
                /* if the user defines his own __new__, 
                   let him call __init_ explicitly */
                if (type->tp_new != slot_tp_new){
                        if (type->tp_init != NULL &&
                            type->tp_init(obj, args, kwds) < 0) {
                               Py_DECREF(obj);
                               obj = NULL;
                        }
                }
        }
        return obj;
}

Usage:

class A(object):
    def __new__(object_type, *args, **kwargs):
        new_inst = object.__new__(object_type)
        new_inst.__init__(*args, **kwargs)
        return new_inst
    def new(object_type):
	return object.__new__(object_type)
    new = classmethod(new)
    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        print 'Hi...'


>>> a = A()
Hi
>>> b = A.new()
>>> a
<A object at 0x81807b8>
>>> b
<A object at 0x817dd60>
>>> type(a)   
<type 'A'>
>>> type(b)
<type 'A'>


I.e. the programmer can define __new__, to determine what happens with
A(), and define A.new() to give bare instances. A gain in flexibility (I
think)

Cheers,

Roeland

-- 
r.b.rigilink at chello.nl

"Half of what I say is nonsense. Unfortunately I don't know which half"


From oktay_safak at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 26 14:28:58 2001
From: oktay_safak at yahoo.com (Oktay Safak)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turkish Pythoneers Sought - Announcement of new YahooGroup
Message-ID: <20010826182858.11338.qmail@web3802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

After subscribing to python-list at python.org some time
ago, I observed that *NO* turkish fellows seemed to be
posting to the list. Also I failed to find *ANY*
turkish python sites on the Web. I was contacted by a
turkish friend shortly after my first post and we
discussed what could be done about this situation. As
a first step a Yahoo Group was set up by him 

piton at yahoogroups.com

 A web site will also be set up, I hope, in the
following weeks (check turkpthon.port5.com from time
to time), which will be announced here as well. So, I
invite all turkish pythoneers reading this message to
join our group.

Snakely Yours,

Oktay Safak

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



From charlie at begeistert.org  Fri Aug 10 18:32:17 2001
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:32:17 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <PM00038B348C3FD1C4@gormenghast.unknown.dom>

Andy Freeman wrote:
>> But why can't Python be fast enough without resorting to extensions?
> Forcing
>> users to learn C in order to make their Python code fast detracts
> from
>> Python's advantage as a simple, easy-to-use language.
What is meant by "fast"? How long does it take to write the improvement?
But this is wrong anyway. Running code doesn't usually need to be
optimised. The problems start and time gets wasted when things have to
be changed. Being able to change something locally because of a changed
condition *can* be very valuable when compared to globally redefining
some types and chasing them in the code,.

> Of course, there's another alternative - with Python's development
> time
> advantages, they'll have more time to come up with better algorithms,
> so
> they may not need the extension.
Or working out that speed improvement has no affect on the application.
This is true for me from personal experience. I am currently working on
some HTML-parsers. The first one I did use string functions and was very
fast (0.5s) but it was very inflexible. The ones I write now use htmllib
and are slower (2.5s) but are much easily adaptable. As the scripts run
once or twice a day, the performance difference is virtually
immeasurable. The biggest optimisation is actually parsing as little as
possible.

>> personally don't think that type declarations would add much
> complexity, but I
>> guess I can see how someone new to them might be confused.
>
> You must have missed a post or two.  If they're required, they either
> aren't
> adequate, or they are complex, or both (C).

I make extensive use of transformation of data. Adding stuff to lists is
just so easy and I don't see why I need a new name just for the final
"event".

>> Of course, that same person would be lost once they had to learn C.
>
> And maybe they'll never have reason to learn C.  I suspect that a fair
> number of SQL programmers don't.  I'm sure that many Excel programmers
> don't.  Yet, both are able to write programs.  Why is it reasonable to
> assume that a Python programmer will need to know C?
>
I have no intention of learning C although I'm neither an SQL programmer
nor an Excel programmer. SQL isn't fast either, it isn't supposed to be
but it offers portability across databases which some people obviously
think is a good thing.

I like Python. I can get it to do the things I need done without too
many sleepless nights I cannot imagine getting half as much done with
any of the other languages that I've seen. I actually wish I didn't have
to program but I can often get prototypes knocked up in Python in the
same time it would take to explain what I need to a real programmer. I
can then give it them to improve when the time comes. Saves us both a
lot of time.

Charlie


From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Aug  1 11:11:09 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:11:09 -0500 
Subject: ????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52A3@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

I have a "question" on what this message is about.

-----Original Message-----
From: zdanie at dr.com [mailto:zdanie at dr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:13 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: ????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????


????????????! ???? ????????.

?????????? ?????????? ? ????????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
(?????????, ??????): 
- ????? ??????? 910 ??. ?; 
- 2 ?????; 
- ??????? ?????????? ????????? ?? 7 ?? 200 ??.?; 
- ??????????? ?????????? - ????????? ??????? 0,101 ??. 

?????? - ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????. ????? ???????? ????????????:
- ???????? ?????? - ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ??????????? ????????? ?????;
- ??????? ?????????? ????; 
- ?????? ? ?????? ?????? - 5 ???. ????; 
- ?????? ? ?/? ???????  - 5 ???. ????;
- ????? ?????? ????; 
- ????? ?/? ????.

?????? ???????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????? ????????????????? ?????
???????? ? ?????????? ??? ????????. ???????? ?????????? "????/?????". ???
???????????? ?????????. ?????? ??????? ??????? (?????? ?????????? ???????,
??????? ????? ??????? ? ??????? ?????). ?????? ????????? ? ???????
?????????????. ????? - ? ?????????? ???????????.

???? ?????? - ????? ??? ????????.

???? ?? ?????????????? ? ????????? ?? ??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?
?????? ???????, ????????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????: zdanie at europe.com. ???
???? ? "????" ????????? ??????????? ????????:
"???????? ????????? ??????????".






From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Thu Aug 16 03:21:29 2001
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:21:29 +0200
Subject: Accessing web site with cookies - help need
Message-ID: <9lfoq5$g74$1@news.netvision.net.il>

Hello All,

Ok, I'm dumb.

I've been reading about accessing html pages and cookies and tried to
retrieve
some web pages from the sites:
http::/www.themarker.co.il

But I can't get through. (All I get is the the login page)

So far what I did:

import httplib
import base64
import string

h = httplib.HTTP('www.themarker.co.il')
h.putrequest('GET',
'/ibo/article.jhtml?ElementId=%2Fibo%2Frepositories%2Fstories%2Fm1_2000%2Fgb
20010815_1.xml&origin=ibo&layer=hp&layer2=&layer3=')

userid = 'my-user-id'
passwd = 'my-password'
auth = 'Basic ' + string.strip(base64.encodestring(userid + ':' + passwd))
h.putheader('Authorization', auth )
h.putheader('Cookie', 'NGUserID=ac15011f-5001-997078050-1') # this one I got
from the Windows Cookie directory
h.endheaders()

errcode, errmsg, headers = h.getreply()
if (errcode == 200):
    f = h.getfile()
    data = f.read() # Get the raw HTML
    f.close()
    print data
else:
    print "Can't access file"


--

Bye.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Smile, damn it, smile.

lambda msg: {
        'name' : 'Miki Tebeka',
        'email' : 'mikit at elrontelesoft.com',
        'url' : 'http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~tebeka',
        'quote' : 'The only difference between children and adults is the
price of the toys'
}[msg]





From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Thu Aug 23 08:30:25 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:30:25 +0100
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9m3lru$jpp$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Russell Turpin:
>At the end of the
>day, I want the Python type model to be so simple that I can
>write its rules on a single page.

How big a sheet of paper?  How small a font?  Can I use both
sides?

Also, can I make up new words without defining them?

  :)

                    Andrew





From dinceraydin at softhome.net  Sun Aug 26 18:38:49 2001
From: dinceraydin at softhome.net (Dincer Aydin)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 15:38:49 -0700
Subject: Turkish Pythoneers Sought - Announcement of new YahooGroup
References: <mailman.998850579.11958.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3112302e.0108261438.e69ffb8@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I happen to have a turkish Python site.You can see it at
http://www.geocities.com/dinceraydin/python/indextr.html
I have translated the first four parts of the Python tutorial
,which is included in the documentation, to turkish. 

Regards,

Dincer Aydin

> After subscribing to python-list at python.org some time
> ago, I observed that *NO* turkish fellows seemed to be
> posting to the list. Also I failed to find *ANY*
> turkish python sites on the Web. 

> Oktay Safak


From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Fri Aug  3 11:33:19 2001
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoff Talvola)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:33:19 -0400
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ... 
In-Reply-To: <01080214563704.01010@frock.ddmweb.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803112042.034d8640@infratest1>

At 01:45 PM 8/2/01 -0700, Sam Penrose wrote:
>It's clear that medium-scale development can be done with any of
>these approaches, including the almost plain string substitution that
>my shop uses. IMO the differences should be assessed in the light of,
>first, the people/organizations doing the work. The more HTML work is
>done by non-Python users, the closer to plain HTML the files should
>stay. Also, the more idiosyncratic an approach, the greater the future
>investment in maintaining knowledge of those idiosyncracies.

Along these lines, one advantage of PSP from my perspective as a 
_programmer_ is, it's just one less thing to learn.  I'm working on a site 
that makes use of Webware's PSP.  The thing I like about PSP is that it's 
basically just Python.  Cheetah is another language.  It's a simple, 
easy-to-understand language, but it's _different_ and that would require me 
to switch gears mentally when switching between Python code and Cheetah 
templates.

If you're going to have non-programmers editing the templates, Cheetah is 
certainly a better choice.  If it's a programmer doing the editing, then 
PSP may have certain advantages.

Webware's implementation of PSP also has the nice feature that you can have 
your PSP page inherit from a base class, so calculations and data 
preparation can be factored into your Python base class while the PSP is 
used purely for presentation.  So you avoid the typical ASP problem of 
embedding significant amounts of back-end logic directly into your ASP 
pages.  My PSP pages basically only contain presentation logic.

Of course, this is also an advantage of templating systems like Cheetah.


--

- Geoff Talvola
   gtalvola at NameConnector.com



From cguru at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug  3 15:18:15 2001
From: cguru at bigfoot.com (Cguru)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:18:15 GMT
Subject: Trouble with SQL and Entry box
References: <20010801.123000.2118901476.1757@office.lan> <b9rhmt0q058kiqs7mhonmeh35v71j4ifvu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010803.152551.2098348051.2230@office.lan>

Thank you very much for your response...I add the line as you said
self.ent17.insert(END,var1[0][0])

and got the following error:
Type Error: unscriptable object...

That message was pretty cryptic.thanks

In article <b9rhmt0q058kiqs7mhonmeh35v71j4ifvu at 4ax.com>, "Tim Roberts"
<timr at probo.com> wrote:


> The "query" method returns a tuple of tuples.  You get one tuple for
> each database row returned, where each tuple contains all the columns in
> your query.  In your case, if there are 5 companyes in the "clients"
> table, you'll get:
>   (
>     ( 'IBM', ),
>     ( 'Microsoft', ),
>     ( 'GM', ),
>     ( 'Ford', ),
>     ( 'Motorola', )
>   )
> 
> If you want to put the first column of the first row into your text box,
> you should be able to use:
> 
>    self.ent17.insert(END,var1[0][0])
> 
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From bobh at hslda.org  Mon Aug 13 20:04:16 2001
From: bobh at hslda.org (Robert)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:04:16 -0700
Subject: PyQt binary for Windows....but?
Message-ID: <4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc@posting.google.com>

I do not have VC6 which is needed to compile the Qt stuff from
Trolltech. If memory serves me right wasn't this package about a year
ago with a DLL? I used it then because everything came in the *box* so
to speak. I really like the way Python works with Qt and would really
like to use it.

I DO play on getting Black Adder when it comes out of beta but I
wanted to get a jumpstart on learning PyQt before the book comes out.
Oh well...still in a holding pattern.

Bob


From barry at zope.com  Wed Aug 29 15:58:20 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:58:20 -0400
Subject: RFC: Additional functionality for PyUnit
References: <efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1@posting.google.com>
	<efd753ca.0108291020.5a76ef01@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15245.18780.346732.75361@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "M" == MikeK  <mkent at atlantic.net> writes:

    M> Well, my post generated a big yawn, but since I just now ran
    M> into a situation that's a good example of why I would like
    M> PyUnit to be enhanced a bit, I thought I'd share it.

I definitely missed your first posting, because my python-list reading
is spotty at best, but...

    >> Here's a proposed change to unittest.py that I'd like your
    >> comments on.  I've found unit testing with PyUnit to be
    >> invaluable.  I've gotten to the point where writing any Python
    >> code without unit tests seems, well, perverse.  :) But there's
    >> an inadequacy in PyUnit I keep running into that I'd like
    >> addressed.  I often work with code that requires a large amount
    >> of work to set up a test for, and the setup code takes an
    >> appreciable amount of time to run.  Often, several tests that
    >> are grouped into a test case all require a common setup.  Now,
    >> PyUnit provides us with setUp() and tearDown() methods that we
    >> can define for each test case, which is good.  The setup()
    >> method is run prior to EACH test method of a test case, and the
    >> tearDown() method is run after EACH test method of a test case.
    >> However, when you have several test methods defined in a test
    >> case, that all need a common setup for the tests, and the setup
    >> is both work and time intensive, what you really want is to
    >> have a different and additional set of setup and teardown code
    >> that is only run ONCE for the test case.  This would let me run
    >> the difficult and long-running setup for a series of related
    >> tests once.  It would really make unit testing my code more
    >> doable.

I have also wanted something like this, for much the same reasons.  A
(long) while back (and sorry, I don't remember in which forum), I made
the suggestion that TestSuites should have setUp() and tearDown()
methods.  That would probably do what you want, while improving the
polymorphism of the test classes.

-Barry



From woodm at equire.com  Thu Aug 23 19:30:27 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:30:27 -0700
Subject: exceptions from modules
Message-ID: <32cedc66.0108231530.7528680@posting.google.com>

Ok, I posted half of this earlier, but something strange happend, so I
will try again.  If there is a double post, I appologize.

I have a main program that imports a user-written module.

In that module, I want to raise a user-defined exception.

The try-except block is in the main program.

Normally, I would think of writing everything like this:

(somewhere deep inside the __main__ jungle...)

try:
    my_module.run_stuff()
except my_module.my_exception, value :
    print 'yippie'


However, I have seen PLENTY of examples of modules that seemingly defy
scoping rules in the way they present their exceptions to the world. 
And instead you can write:

except my_exception, value :

How do they do that?  Where is the exception defined?  

Caviates:
   I don't understand the 'global' key-word.
   I don't believe in "from blah import *" so it's definitely not
that.
   I assume that the my_exception class inherits from Exception (or
one of it's children)


Now even worse is that I have 2 code examples, one that just works,
and one that can't find the exception.  I don't understand.  I have
banged my head against the wall A LOT on this one.

Thanks.


From barry at zope.com  Thu Aug  2 18:59:42 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:59:42 -0400
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
	<20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
	<etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
	<15209.46948.962877.501742@anthem.wooz.org>
	<3B69BF1A.26196619@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <15209.56158.351372.104485@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PP" == Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes:

    PP> Most of the Python universe archives are available here:

    PP>    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail?topic=Python

Cool, that's good to know.  Once we get the site back online we should
add a link to this.

-Barry



From hubris at luukku.com  Fri Aug  3 09:10:31 2001
From: hubris at luukku.com (hubris at luukku.com)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 06:10:31 -0700
Subject: win32com: raising com-event
Message-ID: <7eab1f75.0108030510.7747dc30@posting.google.com>

How can I raise com-event in pythoncom-server, so I can catch it in VB
WithEvents-clause?


From oktay_safak at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 16:47:43 2001
From: oktay_safak at yahoo.com (Oktay Safak)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: string bug/oddity?
Message-ID: <20010812204743.1194.qmail@web3807.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi everyboby,

I am new to Python (and programming), so after reading
and studying the tutorial by Guido last night, I
decided to do some hands on experiments with the
interpreter and came across a quite strange behavior.

First I constructed a dictionary a. Here it is:

>>> a
{'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
>>> for x in a.keys():
	if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
	else: print x, a[x]

yas23
ad'veli'
soyad'guzel'
>>> a
{'yas': 23, 'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
>>> for x in a.keys():
	if type(a[x])!="string": print x+repr(a[x])
	else: print x+a[x]

	
yas23
ad'veli'
soyad'guzel'

I just want to concatenate the two strings without the
quotes as in the last line. This works though:

>>> print x+a[x]
soyadguzel

Well, if you try it after getting rid of the first
entry in the dictionary which is a number then
everything is also OK:

>>> a
{'ad': 'veli', 'soyad': 'guzel'}
>>> for x in a.keys():
	print x+a[x]

	
adveli
soyadguzel


I couldn't understand why this happens.(I tried many
other ways to do it but no success) Is this a bug or
what? I searched the newsgroup archives but couldn't
find anything on this topic. Thanks for any help. 

Oktay Safak



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From rupe at metro.yak.net  Wed Aug 15 15:16:04 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:16:04 -0700
Subject: need definitive answer: capture a keypress
References: <mailman.997879103.13777.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108151116.30df8aa4@posting.google.com>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.997879103.13777.python-list at python.org>...
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 robin at brainexeculink.com wrote:
> > On Linux, I can use curses and getch(). But there appears to be no way
> > of checking for a hit, equivalent to kbhit().
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=off&th=fe6a3930cf390c66,5&seekm=m38zxqyrxr.fsf%40atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk#p
> 
> Oleg.
> ----
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.

I encountered the same problem a while back.  The Python FAQ
(http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.74) has the best solution I've
seen to do this.  I removed the keypress timing stuff in my own
application.  Here's a reprint from the FAQ:

"""
4.74. How to get a single keypress at a time?
For Windows, see question 8.2. Here is an answer for Unix. 
There are several solutions; some involve using curses, which is a
pretty big thing to learn. Here's a solution without curses, due to
Andrew Kuchling (adapted from code to do a PGP-style randomness pool):


        import termios, TERMIOS, sys, os
        fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
        old = termios.tcgetattr(fd)
        new = termios.tcgetattr(fd)
        new[3] = new[3] & ~TERMIOS.ICANON & ~TERMIOS.ECHO
        new[6][TERMIOS.VMIN] = 1
        new[6][TERMIOS.VTIME] = 0
        termios.tcsetattr(fd, TERMIOS.TCSANOW, new)
        s = ''    # We'll save the characters typed and add them to
the pool.
        try:
            while 1:
                c = os.read(fd, 1)
                print "Got character", `c`
                s = s+c
        finally:
            termios.tcsetattr(fd, TERMIOS.TCSAFLUSH, old)

You need the termios module for any of this to work, and I've only
tried it on Linux, though it should work elsewhere. It turns off
stdin's echoing and disables canonical mode, and then reads a
character at a time from stdin, noting the time after each keystroke.
"""

Good luck,

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net:8080


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Aug  9 17:13:06 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 00:13:06 +0300
Subject: Mailman archiver (inadvisable) translates Latin 1 characters
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108092013100.1780-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <kubslpc4yl.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108092013100.1780-100000 at cens.ioc.ee>,
Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:

| This message was originally sent to mailman users group but due to the
| delay there I'll try this newsgroup if someone could help me.

| ---------- Forwarded message ----------
| Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:46:28 +0200 (EET)
| From: Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee>
| To: mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Latin 1 characters


| Hi!

| I have noticed that latin 1 (or rather non US ascii) characters are mapped
| to 3-strings starting with = character when messages are shown in the
| Mailman archive. For example,

| ? -> =F5
| ? -> =D5
| ? -> =E4
| ? -> =C4
| ? -> =F6
| ? -> =D6
| ? -> =FC
| ? -> =DC
| \t -> =09

actually it is not mailman that does this, it is the sender. some mail
user agents escape all non-ascii characters this way, even though
practically all non-8-bit-clean mail software has disappeared from the
face of the earth by now.

the archive part of mailman does not know how to decode this
encoding (it is called "quoted-printable", also often called
"quoted-unreadable" :) ).

i guess mailman will have to be taught how to cope with this.  you
could also use some other web archiving software. i have good
experience with mhonarc. (it is nicer in some other respects too.)

the quopri module in the standard library may help you if you
decide to tackle this yourself.

  -- erno



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 15:20:27 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:20:27 -0700
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net> <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu> <9m5nkv$ft15$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3b86a05d.354015106@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9m69li$kie6$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

>From the Python Reference Manual:

6.13 The exec statement

exec_stmt:    "exec" expression ["in" expression ["," expression]]

This statement supports dynamic execution of Python code. The first
expression should evaluate to either a string, an open file object, or a
code object. If it is a string, the string is parsed as a suite of Python
statements which is then executed (unless a syntax error occurs). If it is
an open file, the file is parsed until EOF and executed. If it is a code
object, it is simply executed.
-----------------------

As far as it being effectively the same as eval, it looks like that to me,
but someone else will have to explain what differences there may be.  I get
similar results for all of:

>>> exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})
4
>>> eval(a.func_code, {'b':4})
4
>>> exec a.func_code in {'b':4}
4
>>>

--
Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b86a05d.354015106 at wa.news.verio.net...
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:12:57 -0700, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com>
wrote:
>
> > exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})
> >
> That seems to work, but where is that form of exec statement documented?
> Is that form effectively equivalent to eval?
>
> BTW, I thought this was interesting, to see which global gets
> overridden and which doesn't:
>
>  >>> def a():
>  ...     print 'a() thinks b is "%s"' % b
>  ...
>  >>> b='from interactive binding'
>  >>> exec """
>  ... print 'exec-ed string thinks a="%s",b="%s"' % (a,b)
>  ... a()
>  ... """ in {'a':a, 'b':'from exec dict'}
>  exec-ed string thinks a="<function a at 007FA77C>",b="from exec dict"
>  a() thinks b is "from interactive binding"
>  >>> exec a.func_code in {'b':'from exec dict'}
>  a() thinks b is "from exec dict"
>  >>>
>



From drs at labs.agilent.com  Thu Aug  9 14:55:54 2001
From: drs at labs.agilent.com (David Smith)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:55:54 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
Message-ID: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com>

It appears that the preferred way to make a copy constructor is to
define the __copy__ method.  In the examples I have seen, __copy__ then
creates a new object in the usual way, which invokes __init__.  In a
class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
redefine __init__'s parameter list (to permit passing only one parameter
of the same class), because it would screw up IDLE's automatic parameter
list prompting.

Is there a way for __copy__ to create a bare object of the same class,
which it can proceed to populate?

	David Smith


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug 14 06:21:59 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:21:59 +0100
Subject: using setDefault
Message-ID: <3B78FBC7.4080908@herts.ac.uk>

I am updating some of my older code to use the setdefault dictionary 
method. Where I had code saying:

if dict.has_key(x):
	dict[x].append(y)
else:
	dict[x] = [y]

now I smile and say:

dict.setdefault(x, []).append(y)


very nice. I am wondering if this approach can be adapted to a situation 
where you are merging two dictionaries. So currently I have a situation 
where for example:

for x in a.keys():
	if b.has_key(x):
		for item in a[x]:	
			try:
				b[x].index(item)
			except ValueError:
				b[x].append(item)
	else:
		b[x] = a[x]


I can't see how that can be rewritten, but I have a feeling there is 
prossibly a better way

blobby



From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Mon Aug 20 16:04:37 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:04:37 +0100
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Tim Howarth wrote:

[someone else:]
> > Unfortunately you can't run ITS on RISC OS as there is no port of Tk which
> > ITS uses for its GUI.
> 
> How big/difficult would it be to port Tk using the toolbox modules ?

The value of the time it would take to do it would probably
exceed the cost of a new machine running Windows or *nix.
How important is it that the thing should run on your Risc PC?

By the way, I have a hazy recollection that someone *did* port
some, at least, of Tk to RISC OS. I don't know how easy it would
be to make the Python port work nicely with it, and I don't
now remember how complete the port was or who did it or anything
useful like that.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 24 18:09:22 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:09:22 GMT
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <mailman.998632296.6398.python-list@python.org> <7xg0ai9d6q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9m56of$k32$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <mgAh7.131790$EP6.36712134@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at dalkescientific.com> wrote in message
news:9m56of$k32$1 at nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston
1.va.h
> ome.com&output=gplain
> (Uggh! Any way to get short URLs for groups.google links?)

selm is the unique identifier of posts.  Any other and-ed stuff is a
result of your access path.  So above can be shortened to
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cpzo969i4k.fsf%40cj20424-a.reston
1.va.home.com
which now (barely) fits on one line so it can be clicked




From sill at optonline.net  Tue Aug 21 01:36:49 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:36:49 GMT
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
Message-ID: <slrn9o3ske.1cf.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

Hello,

I made a little function that checks for a new version of a program and if
there is a new version, asks the user if he wants it downloaded. Are there
any gotchas here? I don't know much about proxies, could there be any
problem with them caching the document with version info? It works here
but I'm afraid this looks too easy to be flawless.

Here's how I'm doing it:

    def live_update(self):
        if check_for_updates:
            try:
                global __version__
                vers = urllib.urlopen(vers_url).read()[:-1]
                if vers != __version__:
                    self.new_version = 1
                    __version__ = vers
            except: pass

    def get_update(self):
        self.stop()
        self.clear_line()
        print """
    New Cymbaline version is available: %s.

    If you don't want to check for new versions, set
    check_for_updates to 0 at the top of cymbaline.py

    Hit Enter... """ % __version__,
        raw_input(" ")
        changes = urllib.urlopen(changes_url).read()
        print
        print changes
        print "Hit Enter..",
        raw_input("")
        print "\rDo you wish to download the latest version? [Y/n] ",
        sys.stdout.flush()
        self.set_normal_term()
        ans = raw_input(" ")
        self.set_curses_term()
        if not ans or ans in "Yy":
            cy_fname = "cymbaline-%s.tar.gz" % __version__
            cy_url = base_url + cy_fname
            cy = urllib.urlopen(cy_url).read()
            fname = os.path.expanduser("~/" + cy_fname)
            f = open(fname, 'w')
            f.write(cy)
            f.close()
            os.system("tar zxvf %s " % fname)
            os.remove(fname)
            print """
    If all went right, Cymbaline should now be untarred to your home
    directory. If not, you can always get it at http://cy.silmarill.org
    To use new Cymbaline, copy cymbaline.py to some location in your path.
    """
        self.new_version = 0

thread.start_new_thread(self.live_update, ())


Comments appreciated,

 - Andrei

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From pete at ipartners.pl  Thu Aug 23 03:54:05 2001
From: pete at ipartners.pl (Pete)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:54:05 +0200
Subject: base classes
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000@spel21.nada.kth.se> <9m0ccg$hqp$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <mailman.998522272.32641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m2ct9$1hej$1@news2.ipartners.pl>

Oh, the problem was if I use two classes and the first is a standard
python's class and second is written by me I need to use distinct members in
my class. Otherwise some strange things may occur...

Pete

"Richard Jones" <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.998522272.32641.python-list at python.org...
> On Wednesday 22 August 2001 23:34, Pete wrote:
> > Yes, this is what I wanted to get. It means that you cannot have the
same
> > attributes when they are public (w/o leading __)
>
> How on earth would you refer to them if you did?
>
>
>     Richard
>




From jmv at yandex.ru  Tue Aug  7 15:05:00 2001
From: jmv at yandex.ru (Eugene Morozov)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 23:05:00 +0400
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
Message-ID: <87k80fg083.fsf@lucifer.home.spb>

Hello!
I'm playing with Python, COM and Word and I'm very impressed. It's a
shame that no such thing exist under Unix. But I'm actually interested
if it is possible to run Python scripts directly from Word, binding
them to the toolbar buttons, for example? 
Eugene

-- 
Email: <roshiajin % yahoo.com>      http://www.geocities.com/roshiajin/
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. 
                                     -- Bertrand Russell


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug  1 12:15:27 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:15:27 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <mailman.996258542.15795.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4u16rx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996270412.11895.python-list@python.org> <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996616382.9383.python-list@python.org> <cpsnfcxwrw.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B682B1F.DCE56009@ActiveState.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
>....
> 
> Sorry, this isn't worth adding new syntax.  The 'in' thing worked
> because a in b is already mapped to b.__contains__(a).

First, you may be right that it isn't worth adding new syntax but it
also isn't worth abusing existing syntax. Types are usually nouns that
do NOT directly represent sets. "int" is different from "the set of
ints" and "programmer" different from the "set of programmers".

Second, I think that this might be worth adding new syntax for one
reason. The current syntax for exception-type trapping is extremely
error prone and nasty and it is essentially the same problem. I could
imagine:

try:
    foo()
except exc isa OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError:
    pass

Nevertheless, I'd rather see the abuse of "in" removed even if it leaves
the exception problem untouched.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From fuess1 at home.com  Sun Aug 26 11:57:02 2001
From: fuess1 at home.com (David Fuess)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:57:02 GMT
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
References: <feSh7.174252$g_3.29600684@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <f07iot0er3flsm4nbh0gegvld4gssfuti0@4ax.com>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:35:55 GMT, "Maan Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net>
wrote:

>Quite a while ago, there used to be packages on Matrix Math and Complex
>number Math.
>What is the status on these packages?  I can not find either.
>For those who use Scientific packages:  which ones are recommended for
>Matrices and Complex numbers?
>Maan
>

For Matrix math use NumPy (look on source forge), for complex use
cmath (part of the standard distribution).

Dave


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 09:37:06 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:37:06 GMT
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:

> Can you point me (and other readers just coming to this discussion) to a
> few URLs illuminating the key differences between 'new-style' and
> 'old-style' classes?  I'm going to do some reading up on the various PEPs,
> but if there are any posts on python-dev I can refer to...

The PEPs, the source code, and the unification tutorial at

    http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

> > In a sense, in 2.2 the new-style classes will still be experimental,
> > and it's quite likely that based upon feedback from users they will
> > change (for the better) in later versions.
> 
> Good to know.  I have to say that although I am among the biggest
> detractors to change, I can appreciate the difficulty of what you're
> doing; python is the first language I know of that has ever gone through
> significant *refactoring* (not whole-scale rewriting or just adding
> things) at both the implementation and design level.  I wish you good
> luck, and I hope that the voices from the "loyal opposition" are more of a
> help than a hindrance.
> 
> > Subclassing built-in types,
> 
> Operator overloading got me 90% of the way there, and that was really the
> only 90% I care about.  aside from isinstance() working on instances that
> are 'like' integers now, what have I gained?

You can subclass dictionary, and the resulting object will be
acceptable as a dictionary where the runtime requires a "real"
dictionary.  Ditto for e.g. files (once I make them subclassable).

> > get/set methods,
> 
> I already *have* get/set methods, in 1.5.2; see
> twisted.python.reflect.Accessor :-)

Now everybody else gets them without having to buy into your twisted
philosophy. :-)

> > class and static methods,
> 
> Those could be easily faked before, for the OO zealots; but I actually
> *like* the idea of using functions for things like that.  I prefer to
> organize my code at the module level, and I find the additional option of
> these method types just clutter.

Yet, they are amongst the most frequently requested features.

> > uniform introspection...
> 
> Aye, now there's the rub.  If we have uniform introspection, there's a
> certain expectation that features like this become _easier_ to use, not
> harder.  Introspection is a powerful feature, all the more powerful if
> it's uniform and systematic.

To me, introspection means being able to look at yourself, not
necessarily being able to modify yourself.  The new scheme definitely
makes discovery of features of objects easier -- you can *always* just
look at __class__.__dict__ etc.

> [ (snip) promise pattern is easy with class assignment ]
> 
> > If you know the type it's going to be eventually, you can use
> > C.__new__() to create an uninitialized C instance.
> 
> The point is that sometimes you don't...
> 
> Of course, you *could* create a class of which all your 'promised' objects
> are instances, and do specialization by having a reference in each
> instance to its 'real' class, but doesn't that seem a little silly given
> that we don't have to do it now? :-)

It would be relatively easy to allow __class__ assignment only if (a)
the new class is a subclass of the old class, and (b) the size of the
new instance is the same as the old instance.  Would this be sufficient?

> > You will still be able to modify *classes* dynamically -- although you
> > have to declare this option by putting __dynamic__ = 1 in your class
> > statement.
> 
> Hmm.  This seems like _less_ uniform introspection to me.  I do have to
> note that if this is a requirement, then a part of the Twisted coding
> standard will be to have all classes have __dynamic__ = 1; one rarely
> knows what code is going to have a bug _before_ the server is started :)

Assuming you have a few base classes from which everything else
builds, you only need to add __dynamic__ = 1 to those base classes.
You can also write a metaclass (inheriting from type) that changes the
default for __dynamic__ to 1, but it's probably easier to just seed
your base classes.

> Also, as an aside: one of my favorite things about Python is the ability
> to fix bugs in a library you're using without having to modify the source
> to that library (if libmodule.version == '0.6.0': fix_libmodule_bug()).  
> This greatly eases deployment.  Fixing bugs in a running server is also
> pretty important if you don't have the option to take the server down...

Hm, I happen to hate it when people do this, because it's so fragile:
there are lots of things that could break.  It reminds me of the
horrible things people used to do in DOS all the time (and to some
extent still do in Windows) that cause endless mysterious
incompatibilities between applications.

Really, I understand you're in love with this stuff, but I feel it as
my responsibility to protect typical Python users from burning
themselves.  That's why I want to require explicit declaration of
certain forms of dynamicism.

> Could we have the default be the other way 'round?  (Has there already
> been a discussion of that?)

You bet.  See several of my previous posts.

> The obvious solution, if I understand python's internals correctly, is to
> make a type method slot, "tp_change_class".  Most types would just raise
> an exception; instances would continue to work the way they have been.  
> Aside from the fact that it's icky syntactically, is there anything that
> this would break or make unpleasant?

You don't need a new slot in the type method.

You just need to declare an object type whose descriptor for the
__class__ attribute is a get/set descriptor, where the set function
implements the proper restrictions.

> And if the syntax is not dealable, it would be a perfectly reasonable
> transition to have
> 
>  def change_class(obj, newclass):
>    obj.__class__ = newclass
> 
> be the current implementation of a function that would be implemented as a
> builtin in the future...

No need: you will be able to continue to use "obj.__class__ = newclass".

> Seriously, the dynamic nature of Python is what makes it cool.  I can
> understand removing meaningless dynamic features in order to make it
> faster (write access to locals() as a dictionary, for example) but I
> suspect that many more dynamic features than you like are really really
> useful.

In the hands of a select few, yes.  For most people, the dynamicism is
just more rope to hang themselves (just as the fact that variable
references aren't checked until you use them).

> I could imagine an effort to make Python less dynamic could well end up
> like the ill-fated project to make C more dynamic (C++).

The fact that you seem to believe this funny suggests that your
worldview is quite eccentric. :-)

> I want my Python code to execute faster, sure.  But before you start
> eliminating features for the sake of speed, ask yourself -- is anyone who
> is really concerned with efficiency writing code in *python*?  The speed
> freaks have long since moved over to ADA or C++ or some other similiarly
> torturous language to hate themselves at the speed of light while we're
> having fun slowly. :-)

Actually, speeding up Python is a very common request.  You probably
ignored those threads because *you* don't need it.  That is, until
more people use your code. :-)

> Allow me to be skeptical of the fact that there is such a thing as
> "typical" code :).  Most 'typical' python code could probably be written
> in Java without much difference except a little more typing.

Exactly.  But people still choose Python because there's less typing!

> It's when you get to the boundary conditions -- adding attributes
> dynamically, reflection, reloading, deploying, porting -- that's
> where Python starts to shine.

And all I'm trying to do is to make those things safer.  A chainsaw is
a great tool -- and also very dangerous.  Should we forbid the use of
chainsaws?  Of course not.  Should we try to make them safer by adding
protective devices?  Of course we should!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 07:15:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:15:16 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <9l0fu80287j@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Joal Heagney" <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3B73B115.9981318D at student.gu.edu.au...
    ...
> I LOVE this language. Alex, you're empty class trick just made it into
> my private python scrap-book.

Glad you liked it!  That convinced me to post it as a recipe to the
cookbook, with slightly more complete discussion -- please see
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66507
Comments, ratings and feedback are welcome, as usual!


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 02:44:40 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:44:40 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
In-Reply-To: <MPG.15de73c8adce39f2989690@rider>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108111037540.5959-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Surial wrote:

>In java, you have 2 features which AFAIK are not available in Python,
>which I always assumed to be required for sandboxing:
>
>'final':
>'private':
>
>How are these points addressed in RExec? (Python's
>sandboxing environment, as I've read).

Python's sandbox environment -- rexec.RExec class was discussed in the
thread rexec question, where I raised some other questions.

The summary is: rexec (and sandboxing) is not so useful to perfect it. The
main advantages were made to rexec while Grail (Python-based browser with
Python applets) was in development.

Now there is not enough people to want sandboxing. So, if you need it, you
can invest in making it better. I am sure that Python is reflictive
enough to allow every aspect of execution controlled.

There is no necessity to apply 'private' or 'final' to be safe. The
necessary thing is to prevent use of functions/methods of C extensions
which can really do something harmful.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Aug 15 02:26:52 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:26:52 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Bug in __imul__
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141931120.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010815082652.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 14-Aug-2001 Roman Suzi wrote:
 >  On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mikael Olofsson wrote:   <---
 > >On 13-Jul-2001 Piet van Oostrum wrote:       <---
 >  
 >  Where from this ancient letter appeared?
 >  I think, it's a bug in someone's software.

It's probably my XFmail that screwed things up. My letter was posted on
the 16'th of July, as the letter footer says, but the message header 
claims it to be sent the 14'th of August. It's the first time I've seen 
this happen. I guess it's time to upgrade.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    15-Aug-2001
Time:    08:18:28

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com



From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Tue Aug  7 14:46:38 2001
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:46:38 -0600
Subject: C extension reference count confusion (always)
Message-ID: <9kpd1t$1vl9$1@newshost.nmt.edu>

- OK. I have a Python program that call a C extension function.
- The C function malloc()s a large chunk of memory for use as
an integer array.
- The C function then uses the NumPy function
PyArray_FromDimsAndData()
to create a NumPy array using the malloc()ed memory as its first
address,
and then calls another C function to fill up the malloc()ed/NumPy
array with data.
- The extension function then returns the NumPy array.  This all seems
to work fine.
- After I am finished with the NumPy array (plotting the values) who,
what
when, where to I have to call to release all of the memory?  That part
is
definitely not working.  Do I have to keep track of the malloc()ed
memory's
address and call a C extension function to free() the memory
(actually, I
could use the address from one of the NumPy object's struct members,
huh?)?
Do I have to just do a Py_DECREF() on the returned NumPy array?
Both?  Neither??

I WILL understand this one day. :-)

Thanks!

Bob





From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 05:10:47 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:10:47 +0200
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com> <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com> <3b707aa4.591122937@news.supernews.com> <yoxk80f86lf.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>
Message-ID: <9kqvmm01udp@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Ville Vainio" <vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi> wrote in message
news:yoxk80f86lf.fsf at karhu.tp.spt.fi...
> xtian at hyperactive.co.nz writes:
>
> > That's pretty spectacularly neat.
>
> Yes, it is. Gems like that should end up in the tutorial to "whet the
> appetite". Now all we need is an iterator for the list, no batter how
> tainted and impure that might be... ;-)

Maybe a generator...?

def listiter(alist):
    while alist:
        head, alist = alist
        yield head

This will blow up if alist isn't a proper lisp-ish list, as
build with "def cons(car,cdr): return car, cdr" and a () (or
other representation of NIL that evaluates to false in Python),
and I'm not sure if such a simple case is appropriate for
a generator, but I think it would work (though I can't test
it right now -- no 2.2 installed here at work).

Or maybe to get in the LISP'ish spirit one might tail-recurse?-)


> How does this kind of list improve performance of lisp-ish recursive
> functions, as opposed to cdr = list[1:]? I guess there was a benchmark
> a while ago (some kind of "language shootout") that did use list[1:]
> and made Python look bad.

I have my doubts this will perform all that well, even if there's
something that makes allocating and freeing pairs (two-items-tuples)
*quite* fast (a 'free pool' for such object specifically, or...).

Python does no tail-recursion optimization, and well-written
"lisp-ish recursive functions" tend to depend on that to get
acceptable performance!-)


Alex





From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug 29 13:36:58 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:36:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unix 'mtio' mag tape interface?
In-Reply-To: <9mj2eb01kut@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108291332450.4144-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "George Young" <gry at ll.mit.edu> wrote in message
> news:3B8CFC6C.CE2B1F39 at ll.mit.edu...
>     ...
> > Failing anything code to steal, what's the cleanest way to take a C
> > header file
> > for the mtio ioctl's and produce a neat python interface?  Performance
> > is completely
> > irrelevant, just ease of development, and clarity and portability of the
> > result.
> 
> SWIG might help you here -- see www.swig.org.
> 

Or maybe fcntl.ioctl 

( You might have to generate an IOCTL.py of constants from the C headers
  the way they are already done for FCNTL.py ) 

-- Steve 




From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Mon Aug  6 09:30:41 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 08:30:41 -0500
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <jtitg1gvsu.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:

> >         I'd rather not do this alone. 
> 
> Don't do it. Yet.
> 
> This problem has been around long before the first Internet gold rush -
> many skilled people have attacked it. Find something you can get going,
> e.g., cfengine, Big Brother, even the old venerable Nocol.

        Eek!  Not Big Brother!  I have my own monitoring system.  It
has never yet offered my local filesystem to the outside world. :)

        As I've said elsewhere, I *know* about these tools, and I even
use some of them.  My irritation is that none of them seem capable of
sharing information in any useful way without a lot of work.

> Join Usenix and SAGE. Check out the material of Usenix's sysadmin
> conferences from years past. Behold the diversity. It doesn't have to be
> Python.

        I am in both.  In fact, I'm on the program committee for this
year's LISA conference.  I'm well aware of the diversity available.
I've read a lot of older papers on the subject, too, each of which
attacks individual *parts* of the problem.  I've also seen how the
same sorts of tools keep getting reinvented over and over again, which
is part of my reason for posting here.  I'd rather not reinvent the
wheel for that sake of doing so, but I will happily do so to not to
have to pay for Tivoli. :)

-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org


From edcjones at erols.com  Thu Aug 30 21:20:44 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:20:44 -0400
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
Message-ID: <3B8EE66C.2090703@erols.com>

Has anyone written in C a merge function for sorted Python sequences? It 
should look like:
     merged_list, tail1, tail2 = merge(list1, list2)
where either tail1 or tail2 is []. Suppose tail1 is []. Then tail2 is a 
terminal sublist of list2, the last element of merged_list is the last 
element of list1, and merged_list + tail2 is the merger of list1 and 
list2. Similarly if tail2 is [].

This function would be useful for writing external merge sort programs.

Thanks,
Ed Jones



From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug  7 02:19:01 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 02:19:01 -0400
Subject: counting occurrences
In-Reply-To: <9kmats0df1@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEPBLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Grant Griffin, on a dict.items_sorted_by_reversed_value() method --
 or something of that ilk]

> I guess I wasn't really after "speed".  I was more interested in
> making this common operation more _accessible_ to beginners, and
> more _convenient_ to all

Things "like this" generally don't get in without a speed argument, though.
Like dict.update(f) is easy to program in Python, but significantly quicker
in C.  The other strike against it is "items_sorted_by_reversed_value":
that's only one of a dozen variations someone might want, and by the time
you have to import a module exposing "now which kind of sort + value and/or
key do you want?" symbolic constants, it's plain ugly.

Fear of that kind of bloat held up the introduction of dict.update() for
years:  in d.update(e), in case of duplicate keys k, most apps seem to want
e[k] to "win", but some want d[k] to triumph, others would prefer an
exception get raised, and still others want the new d[k] to be (d[k], e[k])
or [d[k], e[k]] or one of those swapped.  Guido was in a rare mood when he
said "oh, screw it -- e[k] wins".  You might be able to sell

    dict.sort()

picking one meaning on those (shaky) grounds.  Write a PEP, just for the
practice.

> --you know, kindda like list comprehensions.  (Or do we have LCs
> purely for "speed"<wink>?)

Speed actually was a listcomp argument, in that listcomps *could* be
significantly zippier than map applied to a lambda function.  In reality,
nobody has made time to speed up the implementation, but the potential is
still there.  About time you started hacking the Python core, Grant <wink>.

>> Note that in Python 2.2, you can *subclass* from dicts, like here in
>> grantdict.py:

> Great--thanks!  (Anything that uses _two_ list comprehensions in
> five lines can't be _all_ bad <wink>.)

Even better once you speed them up.

calling-you-to-greater-ambitions-ly y'rs  - tim




From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 22:10:00 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:10:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: raising SyntaxError while parsing file?
In-Reply-To: <roy-2A20AF.21304631082001@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108312205200.4535-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Roy Smith wrote:

> I've got a class which parses a data file, and I want to be able to signal
> a parse error.  Would it be appropriate to raise SyntaxError for that, or
> is SyntaxError really reserved for errors in the python code itself?

Create your own exception by creating an empty exception descended from
Exception:

---
>>> class ParseError(Exception):
...   pass
...
>>> raise ParseError, 'blah'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.ParseError: blah
>>>
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 16:14:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:14:26 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lamme017m7@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997806503.15832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lc0vj01qqj@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Neil Schemenauer" <nas at python.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.997806503.15832.python-list at python.org...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > > Zope's persistency support manages this without assignment to
> > > __class__.  A persistent object has three states: ghost, valid, and
> >
> > Yes, and AMK has, it seems to me, posted eloquently as to
> > how and why this is a kludge (or at least that's how I
> > read AMK's posts on this thread), made necessary by the
> > extension-class disabling (effectively) __class__ changes.
>
> You can have the ability to efficiently subclass builtin
> types or the ability to assign to __class__.  Pick one.  I would choose

Or pick (e.g.) Ruby and get both.  What makes you think it HAS
to be "pick one" when many languages have neither (C++, say)
and several have both (Ruby, Smalltalk [with 'becomes'], Dylan...)?

> the first any day.  The effect of second can usually be achieved in some
> other way.

So can "the effect of first", or, how have we ever been able to
live with Python for so long?  If I *had* to choose, because some
evil witch hexed me to, I guess I'd choose subclassing builtins,
too -- more frequent opportunities.  But surely *some* ability
to keep a subset of the existing class-changing possibilities is a
possibility -- Guido himself mentioned "a subclass that doesn't
add slots" as one which could be an easily-checked safe case to
assign in lieu of an existing instance's __class__, for example.


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  2 10:07:32 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:07:32 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>        <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at> <mailman.996694262.6913.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgq4u.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <45da7.22037$WD1.1394095@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"William Tanksley" <wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net> wrote ...
[ ... ]
>
> Oops, I just realised that using 'class' as a variable name can't possibly
> work: the parser can't currently disambiguate
>
> class = myClass
>
> from a class declaration, since both start with the token "class".
>
I've spent a couple of minutes trying to remember if I ever wrote

    self = something

Nope, don't remember that. Which isn't to say it might not be meaningful in
some context I haven't imagined.

Surely it would be no more meaningful to assign to class than it would to
self? Not, you understand, that this means there are no other ambiguties in
there...

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From roy.smith at micromuse.com  Tue Aug 14 23:08:00 2001
From: roy.smith at micromuse.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:08:00 -0400
Subject: Contributing to python -- how to do it?
Message-ID: <roy.smith-C9AB4F.23080014082001@news1.panix.com>

I've written a nice little debugging mix-in class, which (with my 
employer's blessing) I'd like to donate back to the community, possibly as 
a standard part of a future python distribution.  What's the best way to do 
that?

-- 
Roy Smith, Staff Engineer
Micromuse, Inc
roy.smith at micromuse.com
+1 914 747 7612


From alberto at mindspring.com  Thu Aug 30 16:23:14 2001
From: alberto at mindspring.com (Al Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:23:14 -0400
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <9mm7bi0kj1@enews1.newsguy.com>

See Tkinter for information on gui stuff.

wxPython also seems to be a pretty nice library for gui's

# -- Start Code
import tkMessageBox

text = "Hello Jeroen!"
tkMessageBox.showinfo("Message", text)

text = "Do you like Python so far?"
if tkMessageBox.askyesno("Question", text):
    text = "It can become addictive :-)"
    tkMessageBox.showwarning("Warning", text)
else:
    text = "Give it some more time"
    tkMessageBox.showerror("Error", text)

#-- End Code

There are also functions named askquestion, askokcancel and askretrycancel.

I've been using it for about a week and am having fun learning and also
coming
up with small projects to practice on.

Note: When you get to using databases, you might want to look into MetaKit.

"jeroen paul goudsmit" <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:fbwj7.40$YN5.244 at pollux.casema.net...
> I'm using python for one day now, and the only thing i van do is import
sys
> and exit() and print "hello". I want messageboxes! how?
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 16:14:45 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:14:45 -0400
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <x0cj7.71700$54.3813230@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b at posting.google.com...
> When i run this code
>
> name= Create('Name')
> file= open('%s.btv' % name, "w")
>
> i end up with a file name that has a set of ' ' around the name like so
>
> 'Name'.btv
>
> How can i fix this?

>>> name = Create('Name')
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
NameError: There is no variable named 'Create'

I think we need a little more context before we can be of much help, despite
this newsgroup's famous psychic debugging abilities. That is, unless someone
out there wants to prove me wrong ...

About all I can tell you is that you are putting quotes in somewhere they
aren't required, but you'd probably wirked that out.

Eber, please post the whole program, or if it's too long (say, > 100 lines)
or a secret then write a shorter program to demonstrate the bug and post
that.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/








From guido at python.org  Wed Aug 29 23:37:58 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:37:58 GMT
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <1a517b5.0108281212.1cb930c2@posting.google.com> <4O1PEhAvgKj7EwqO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cpy9o2nrp1.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> In Tcl land, these problems caused the powers that be to implement their
> own indirection scheme. Effectively the extension is passed a pointer to
> a list of pointers. The extension indirects through them to get at the
> real api. They have various rules to make things work reasonably when
> pointers get added/subtracted to the real API. Seems to work quite well,
> but there's a fixed time and space penalty.

Hm, this looks a lot like the scheme that Windows already implements
for linking to DLLs, as long as you use the same DLL name.  So what
would the point be?

The problem with either scheme is that we can't *know* that a new DLL
won't break an existing extension -- each version introduces *some*
incompatible change.  Most extensions don't use the affected APIs, so
would be safe, but there's no way to know.  We could name the DLL
python2.dll, and hope for the best, but some extensions might dump
core.  We should then try to minimize this risk by never changing an
API -- but that's very hard.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From alberto at mindspring.com  Sun Aug 19 17:57:02 2001
From: alberto at mindspring.com (Al Gonzalez)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:57:02 -0400
Subject: Stop assignment of a class attribute?
Message-ID: <9lpcnh02991@enews1.newsguy.com>

I can overload the __setattr__ and __delattr__ to make instance attributes
immutable, but I don't see how it can be done for class attributes.  Does
anyone have any ideas?

class Spam:
    """Information that shouldn't be changed"""

    name = "My SPAM!"

    def __init__(self):
        self.X = "test"

    # block setting or deleting of attributes
    def __setattr__(self, name, value):
        if self.__dict__.has_key(name):
            raise TypeError, "Attributes of this class are immutable!\nThey
may not be changed nor deleted."
        else:
            self.__dict__[name]=value

    def __delattr__(self, name):
        if self.__dict__.has_key(name):
            raise TypeError, "Attributes of this class are immutable!\nThey
may not be changed nor deleted."


a = Spam()
a.X = "new test" # will raise an error

Spam.name = "Guindalin" # will not raise an error
a.name = "George!" # will also not raise an error






From gtcopeland at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 15 10:00:59 2001
From: gtcopeland at earthlink.net (Greg Copeland)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:00:59 -0500
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>
Message-ID: <m266bph17o.fsf@mouse.copelandconsulting.net>

It's been a while so forgive me if I've got this wrong,
but shouldn't you be doing:
dat = open( '\\\\.\\Tape0' ).read()


Greg


"Juan Huertas" <jhg at galdon.com> writes:

> Hi all.
> 
> My pc has a DAT tape (Windows 2000 Tape0) and i need to read the content of
> a tape with unix format, using low level I'ts possible to read from the
> device inside python?.
> 
> I try:
> 
> dat=open('\\.\Tape0','rb').read()
> 
> but the system does not open the file (ilegal file name: \\.\Tape0).
> 
> Un saludo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Greg Copeland, Principal Consultant
Copeland Computer Consulting
--------------------------------------------------
PGP/GPG Key at http://www.keyserver.net
DE5E 6F1D 0B51 6758 A5D7  7DFE D785 A386 BD11 4FCD
--------------------------------------------------


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Aug 13 21:59:12 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:59:12 GMT
Subject: Dynamic attribute introspection
Message-ID: <QB%d7.117036$Xr6.617102@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

   Python allows classes to define dynamic attributes with the __getattr__
and __setattr__ methods. This is useful in many circumstances, particularly
when proxying to external objects such as those accessed through object
brokers (COM, XPCOM, CORBA, ...), databases, and dynamically wrapped APIs.
However, there is no generic method for finding the attributes that are
available through this feature even though the set of attributes is often
known at runtime by the class.

   In PythonCard (a GUI building project), users can interact with the user
interface from the shell by typing expressions such as "entry.text =
'Woger'". When the user types the "." a list is displayed with the available
attributes and methods. It helps the user to include dynamic attributes as
well as static attributes. Within PythonCard, we could provide a special
case solution to this but it would be much more useful to define a mechanism
that could be provided by any library and then used by any of the
interactive shells. There are interactive shells provided by many of the
development environments such as PythonWin, PythonCard and Boa Constructor.
Development environments provide other tools such as inspectors that could
benefit from this feature and it may also be useful for other generic code.

   The convention recently added to PyCrust, the interactive shell used by
PythonCard, is to call a method called _getAttributeNames() on the object of
interest which, if defined, returns a list of dynamic attribute names. If it
is not defined, an AttributeError is raised by Python. The display of
dynamic attributes using this convention was also easily added to PythonWin.
PythonCard provides its side of the convention by defining a
_getAttributeNames method on those classes which can have dynamic
attributes.

   Several issues are still undecided. The name "_getAttributeNames" and the
number of underscores on the front is uncertain. At least one underscore
seems justified on the basis that this is not a part of the objects
'intentional' interface but part of its introspection interface. A second
underscore moves it into the language domain which should ensure there are
no clashes with already existing code.

   _getAttributeNames can be defined to either return only the attributes
directly available on an object (thus requiring base classes to be visited
to find the full set) or can be defined to return all dynamic attributes
defined by the object and by any base classes. My preference is for the
latter due to the possibility of a class hiding the dynamic attributes of
its base classes. The counterview is that most introspection code currently
traverses all base classes anyway and this makes it similar to dir.

   It may also prove useful to define a mechanism to provide doc strings for
dynamic attributes for display by development tools.

   On a procedural note, is defining a convention an appropriate subject for
a PEP?

   Neil






From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug  2 12:33:31 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:33:31 GMT
Subject: Static method and class method comments
References: <9jn382$lqf$1@license1.unx.sas.com> <Xns90EA6710921D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <1201359.46VatdPhlS@lunix.schabi.de> <J0ea7.61496$EP6.14462458@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <1065976.8hzESeGDPO@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <vhfa7.61847$EP6.14494100@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:1065976.8hzESeGDPO at lunix.schabi.de...
> Hello,
>
> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at home.com> schrub:

> > or tell users to write simple wrapper of multiple modifiers:
> >
> > def multimod(f): return mod2(mod1(f))
>
> It might even be possible to allow the lambda operator to create
such
> wrapper functions instantly.

To use lambda f: mod2(mod1(f)), instead add this to the grammar:

functionmodifier: identifier | lambda_expression #or whatever lambdas
are called

Terry J. Reedy





From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 18:54:49 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:54:49 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <uu1ytrw93.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <9pjlotkel6c130nech7aauff70l7r736jd@4ax.com>

On 27 Aug 2001 18:08:56 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <uu1ytrw93.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>:

:Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:
:
:> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
:> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?
:
:After reading this thread, it appears that you probably want more fine
:grained locking, but just in case you do end up falling back to some
:sort of sentinel file or more global lock approach...

No, I wasn't trying to do fine grained locking. I was going to use a
sentinel file.

:An alternative to the msvcrt lock stuff for a full file lock that may
:be more portable among Windows platforms would be to just open your
:lock file using the native Win32 CreateFile call (wrapped in
:win32file), and ask for exclusive access (no sharing mode).  

Thanks. I'm looking at that, and it looks like it might be a very good
approach.

:If you need to do I/O to the lock file you'll probably need to use the Win32
:functions (although you could wrap that in a file-like object),

Fortunately, I'm not planning any I/O on the locked file.

:but if you're just using that file to restrict access to other files it can
:be a convenient method.

This is exactly what I'm trying to do. Thanks, again, for the
suggestion.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Aug 10 18:04:07 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 18:04:07 -0400
Subject: Problems with Threads
References: <mailman.997216332.2935.python-list@python.org> <9kv0fi$ft4$1@panix2.panix.com> <fHMc7.1801$vY7.807999@nnrp6.proxad.net>
Message-ID: <ubslnr2qw.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Alexandre Perrin" <payou at free.fr> writes:

> I had the same problem recently... In fact, it mainly depends on the
> kind of thread you are using.  I'm using Windows and I know that
> Win32 threads are incompatible with Python (because the Python API
> is single-threaded), but I heard that POSIX threads work fine.

There's nothing wrong with calling into the Python interpreter from
multiple native windows threads created outside of Python.  After all,
under Windows (native Python, not Cygwin) Python threads are in fact
created as native Win32 threads.

However, you do have to pay attention to the global interpreter lock.
Thus, if you are going to create a thread outside of Python (say from
an environment into which the Python interpreter is embedded) you need
to obtain a thread context, and then acquire/release the GIL around
any calls into the interpreter.  I think that's probably what you
mistakenly interpreted as the Python API being single-threaded - it's
that the core Python code is not thread safe, so Python uses a global
lock to ensure only one thread can be executing in that native code
simultaneously.  But that doesn't mean it isn't multi-threading, nor
that multiple threads might not be executing the core code.

Handling the GIL will let your own independent native threads
interoperate within the same interpreter with any other Python-created
threads, or just with a single threaded Python script.

For example, here's a snippet of some C code that initializes an
embedded interpreter as part of a newly created thread (begun via the
_beginthread call from Visual C):

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Py_Initialize();
PyEval_InitThreads();
ecnaPy_RcvThreadState = PyThreadState_New(PyThreadState_Get()->interp);

PyImport_AddModule("ecna");
modobj = Py_InitModule("ecna",ecnaPy_Methods);

(...)

PyRun_SimpleFile(OptScriptFile,OptScriptName);
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This sets up the interpreter, but also creates a new thread state to
be used by another thread in the application (a background data
receiving thread).  It then declares the "ecna" module to the embedded
interpreter to use for callbacks into the master C application, and
finally starts the embedded interpreter running a script.  While the
embedded interpreter is in control of the script, it handles the GIL,
releasing it periodically, or whenever explicitly instructed such as
by other extensions.

In the separate data reception thread, at the point that it has enough
data to send over to the Python interpreter, it does something like:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PyEval_AcquireThread(ecnaPy_RcvThreadState);

(... Call into script ...)

PyEval_ReleaseThread(ecnaPy_RcvThreadState);
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are macros for managing the GIL, but I found them more
logical/readable at the time I wrote the above module for use with
extensions since they work for releasing the GIL around an operation
rather than acquiring it around one.

> Anyway, there is a solution to your problem. Instead of creating your thread
> in C, you can create a Python thread BEFORE calling your C function. This
> works fine because Python threads are safe.

They're not really any more "safe" then natively created threads -
what you're probably seeing is that by creating the thread in Python
the GIL is being handled by Python thus relieving your extension of
worrying about it.

However, if you aren't relinquishing the GIL within your extension,
then you aren't being "nice" either - since Python won't be able to
run other threads as long as your extension is in control.

For an extension, Python provides some straight-forward macros that
you should bracket around any lengthy or I/O related call - this
permits other Python threads to keep executing in the interpreter
while your extension code is waiting for the operation to complete.
For example:

--------------------------------------------------
Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
(... perform operation ...)
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
--------------------------------------------------

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Aug 12 07:07:50 2001
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:07:50 GMT
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de> <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com> <883789430D7C67FB.FA326A678A0C41A4.D1F2B5C5A5172BAC@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <astd7.10312$z21.1370240@newsc.telia.net>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> Confession time:  in principle, GUI coders also can code
> their own bindings and use %W substitution to compute
> the widget which received the event.  Does that work in
> Tkinter?

Tkinter passes an event instance to the event handler,
and %x codes are mapped to event instance attributes.

see table 7-2 for a list of portable attributes:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/events-and-bindings.htm

in this case, you want the event.widget attribute:

    w = SomeWidget()
    w.bind(..., callback)

    def callback(event):
        print event.widget

note that the widget attribute is a real Tkinter widget
object (not a Tk widget name), so you can do things
like:

    w1 = SomeWidget()
    w1.info = 1, somedata
    w1.bind(..., callback)

    w2 = SomeWidget()
    w2.info = 2, somedata
    w2.bind(..., callback)

    def callback(event):
        print event.widget.info
        print event.widget.cget("text")


</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 22:09:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:09:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108262038440.1579-100000@hex.local.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108262206360.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:

> OK, it works now (I know I did it before, but I'll try to forget that
> :)...almost.  I can do "from gtk import *", but here is a Python session
> that is strange:
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#1, Jul 22 2001, 14:53:37)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import gtk
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "gtk.py", line 21, in ?
>     import _gtk
> ImportError: No module named _gtk
> >>> from gtk import *
> >>>
>
> has this happened to anyone else?

Huh. Cute.

It looks like it can't find _gtkmodule.so. If you copied it over, try copying
that file too. If you recompiled, try to import it directly.

Also, I've helped you as much as I can. For further help, it might be better
if you look at the PyGTK mailing list/archives at
http://www.daa.com.au/mailman/listinfo/pygtk. They'll probably be able to help
you where I can't.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 16 06:22:33 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:22:33 +0200
Subject: SMTP
Message-ID: <3B8309FE@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From Ralf Claus <ralf.claus at teleatlas.com> =====
>Hello,
>how can I give a "subject" to smtplib ?
>
>Thanks for your responses

Judging from the example at

  http://www.python.org/doc/lib/SMTP-example.html

I guess you just stick a string with "Subject: ..." in the msg string, just 
like you do with "To: " and "From: ".

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Wed Aug 22 20:08:09 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:08:09 +1000
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com> <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <0108231008090D.28818@ike>

On Thursday 23 August 2001 09:25, George Garnett wrote:
> Python has been re-written into jpython in which the language closely
> parallels the java language. The main difference is java enforces strong
> type casting (which is good), where jpython does not (its a gimmick to not
> scare off non professional programmers who don't want to take the time to
> verify every line of code is type casted correctly (this is the part where
> I'll get beat up on) ).

Yes, you will. And to explain why, here's an interview with "Bruce Eckel, 
whose book Thinking in Java, Second Edition recently won the JavaWorld 
Editors' Choice Award".

  http://www.mindview.net/Etc/About/InformITRaw_html

It's long, but well worth it. Do a text search for "typing" and read that 
paragraph if you don't want to read the whole thing.


   Richard



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug 30 02:05:53 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:05:53 +1000
Subject: [announce] Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.8
Message-ID: <01083016055309.01434@ike>

            Roundup 0.2.8 - an issue tracking system

This is a bugfix release.

Fixed:
 . Missing import in mailgw.


Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with
command-line, web and e-mail interfaces. It is based on the winning design
from Ka-Ping Yee in the Software Carpentry "Track" design competition.

Note: Ping is not responsible for this project. The contact for this project
is richard at users.sourceforge.net.

Roundup manages a number of issues (with flexible properties such as
"description", "priority", and so on) and provides the ability to
 (a) submit new issues,
 (b) find and edit existing issues, and
 (c) discuss issues with other participants.
The system will facilitate communication among the participants by managing
discussions and notifying interested parties when issues are edited. One of
the major design goals for Roundup that it be simple to get going. Roundup
is therefore usable "out of the box" with any python 2.0+ installation. It
doesn't even need to be "installed" to be operational, though a
disutils-based install script is provided.

It comes with two issue tracker templates and three database back-ends.
Back-ends for relational databases are being developed.

Source is available at the website:
      http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/



From jwelby at waitrose.com  Wed Aug 15 01:32:44 2001
From: jwelby at waitrose.com (Julius Welby)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:32:44 +0100
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tnk28ikj7u0g22@xo.supernews.co.uk>

This is probably redundant after that last post, (and doesn't meet the
requirement "simply") but some time ago I wrote a script that checks a list
of URLs for availability and sends an alert e-mail if one or more fails.

Just in case it is useful I've dragged it out of storage and posted it here:

http://www.outwardlynormal.com/python/igore.txt

There is some documentation in the script. I'll add some better notes on my
site as some point.


"JS" <joesalt at ireland.com> wrote in message
news:d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e at posting.google.com...
> Is there anything that works like this?
>
> checkLink(url):
>      # If url exists, return 1
>      # If url does not exist, return 0
>
> All I want to do is check the external links in a html file and log if
> they exist or not. Unfortunately, I am not skilled enough to write
> something myself.
>
> Thanks!




From dave at rotwang.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Aug 31 13:10:13 2001
From: dave at rotwang.freeserve.co.uk (Dave Berkeley)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:10:13 +0100
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
References: <9mk7ur$hbv$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <9mog9u$d94$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

Formalin <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mk7ur$hbv$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> How to make UEdit support python?
>
>

The following script can be used to allow pop-up Python language help from
within UltraEdit. It does Java, Javascript and PHP too. You will have to
acquire the docs and point the paths at them for this to work. Then you need
to configure a User Tool to invoke the help. I use this all the time.

Anyone got any C library help in HTML?

Dave Berkeley
----
#! Python
#
# Utility to access Python / Java API / PHP help from within UltraEdit.
#
# Needs to be invoked: python help.py %e %sel%
#
# Use ToolConfiguration:
# %e is the file extension
# %sel% is UltraEdit's currently selected text.
#
# Note :- this program relies on the format of help documents
# so could easily be broken by later version documents.

# Copyright (C) 1999 Dave Berkeley dave at rotwang.freeserve.co.uk
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.

# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
# WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
# General Public License for more details.

# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307
# USA

import os, sys, string, re, getopt, webbrowser

# Point these at your Java API, Python etc. docs
#
java_root = r"C:\Program files\JDK1.3\docs\api\index-files"
python_root = r"C:\Program Files\Python20\Doc\lib"
python_index = "genindex.html"
php_root = r"D:\Mirror\Download\Docs\Php4"
php_index = 'index.html'
js_root = r'D:\mirror\docs.iplanet.com\docs\manuals\js\client\jsref'
js_index = r'bklast.htm'
temp_file  = r"c:\Temp\temp.html"

#
#
#

class Base:

    def __init__(self, lang, word):
        self.lines = []
        self.lang = lang
        self.word = word

    def add(self, line):
        self.lines.append(line)

    def add_tag(self, text, url):
        self.add('<a href="%s"> %s </a><br>' % (url, text,))

    def make_html(self):
        html = "<HTML><BODY>\n<H2>%s help index for <B>%s</B></H2>" %
(self.lang, self.word,)
        for line in self.lines:
            html = html + line
        html = html + "</BODY></HTML>\n"
        return html

    def get_file(self):

        if self.word == None:
            return self.get_path()

        self.data = open(self.get_path(), "r").read()
        match = self.word_re.sub(self.on_match, self.data)

        if len(self.lines) == 0:
            return self.get_path()

        return self.get_html()

    def get_html(self):
        open(self.get_temp(), "w").write(self.make_html())
        return self.get_temp()

    def get_temp(self):
        return temp_file

#
#
#

class Java(Base):

    def __init__(self, word):
        Base.__init__(self, "Java", word)
        if word:
            self.index = max(1, ord(word[0]) - ord('a') + 1)
        else:
            self.index = 1
        if word != None:
            re_text = "<DT>(<A HREF=\"(.*)\"><B>(%s.*)</B>.*)$" % word
            self.word_re = re.compile(re_text, re.MULTILINE + re.IGNORECASE)

    def on_match(self,match):
        self.add(match.group(1))
        i = match.end()+1
        j = i
        while self.data[j] != '\n':
            j = j + 1
        after = self.data[i:j]
        self.add(after + "<BR>\n")
        return ""

    def get_path(self):
        file = java_root + r"\index-%d.html"
        return file % self.index

    def get_temp(self):
        return r"%s\temp.html" % java_root

#
#
#

class Python(Base):

    def __init__(self, word):
        Base.__init__(self, "Python", word)
        if word != None:
            re_text = "<a href='(.*)'>(%s.*)</a>" % word
            self.word_re = re.compile(re_text, re.MULTILINE + re.IGNORECASE)

    def on_match(self,match):
        href, text = match.groups()
        path = 'file://' + os.path.join(python_root, href)
        self.add_tag(text, path)
        return ""

    def get_path(self):
        return os.path.join(python_root, python_index)

#
#
#

class JavaScript(Base):

    def __init__(self, word):
        Base.__init__(self, "JavaScript", word)
        if word != None:
            re_text = '<a href="(.*)">(%s.*)</a>' % word
            self.word_re = re.compile(re_text, re.MULTILINE + re.IGNORECASE)

    def on_match(self,match):
        href, text = match.groups()
        path = os.path.join(js_root, href)
        self.add_tag(text, path)
        return ""

    def get_path(self):
        return os.path.join(js_root, js_index)

    def get_temp(self):
        return r"%s\temp.html" % js_root
#
#
#

class Php(Base):

    file_re = re.compile(r'function\.(.*).html')

    def __init__(self, word):
        Base.__init__(self, "PHP", word)

        files = []
        for f in os.listdir(php_root):
            if self.file_re.match(f):
                files.append(f)

        if not word:
            self.path = self.default()
            return

        file = 'function.%s.html' % word.replace('_', '-')
        if not file in files:
            self.partial_match(word, files)
            self.path = None
        else:
            self.path = os.path.join(php_root, file)

    def default(self):
        return os.path.join(php_root, php_index)

    def partial_match(self, word, files):
        for file in files:
            match = self.file_re.match(file.replace('-', '_'))
            if not match:
                continue

            fn = match.groups()[0]
            if not fn.startswith(word):
                continue

            path = os.path.join(php_root, file)
            self.add_tag(fn, path)

    def get_path(self):
        return self.path

    def get_file(self):
        if self.path:
            return self.get_path()
        if len(self.lines):
            return self.get_html();
        return self.default()

#
#
#

handlers = {
    '.java' :   Java,
    '.py'   :   Python,
    '.cgi'  :   Python,
    '.cgp'  :   Python,
    '.php'  :   Php,
    '.js'   :   JavaScript,
}

def report_error(text):
    file  = open(temp_file, 'w')
    file.write("<HTML><BODY><H2> Error invoking Help: %s
</h2></BODY></HTML>" % text)
    file.close()
    webbrowser.open_new(temp_file)

#
#

def help():

    args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], '')[1]

    if len(args) < 1:
        report_error("No args")
        return

    ext = string.lower(args[0])

    if len(args) < 2:
        word = None
    else:
        word = string.lower(args[1])

    if handlers.has_key(ext):
        help = handlers[ext](word)
    else:
        report_error("Unknown extension '%s'" % ext);
        return

    webbrowser.open_new(help.get_file())

#
#

help()





From oktay_safak at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 09:20:54 2001
From: oktay_safak at yahoo.com (Oktay Safak)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: string bug/oddity?
In-Reply-To: <9l7tt9012o@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010813132054.9438.qmail@web3806.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
> news:9l7k5i$5eh$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> > In article <3B77150B.9F8FC079 at engcorp.com>,
> > Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >Anything wrong with this, simpler, approach?
> > >
> > >>>> for x in a.keys():
> > >...     print '%s%s' % (x, a[x])
> >
> > Even simpler and faster:
> >
> > for x,y in a.items():
> >     print '%s%s' % (x,y)
> 
> Simpler, yes.  Not necessarily faster, and I was
> surprised when I
> actually measured iteration on .keys vs iteration on
> .items: the
> allocation/building of the N pairs may apparently
> take longer
> than the N [] indexing operations.  Measure the two
> alternatives
> if you do need top speed at this point...
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Thanks for all the solutions suggested, I tried them
all and they all worked very well. I understood that
the problem with my code has been in type
identification process mainly. Now I know how to do it
properly. Terrific group! BTW, is it proper to post to
the group just to thank the responders? 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Mon Aug  6 10:37:22 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:37:22 +0100
Subject: Templating and syntactic sugar
Message-ID: <pgatmt0078nid15dm4gndhf7ug6fmpjofj@4ax.com>

Hi,

To teach myself more python, I've set about writing a text templating
system.  I know others exist, but none of them is exactly what I want.
:)

Currently I have the following sort of stuff in the template file to
be replaced by the system:
<? tpl.var="xyzzy" ?>

And the code to set this up looks like this:
    tpl = Template('template.html')
    tpl.var('xyzzy', 'Hello, world!')
    print tpl.output()

You can get and set variables in the template with tpl.var(), but I
want to be able to do something like tpl.var.xyzzy = "Hello, world!",
just because I like that syntax, but still have this actually make a
method call.  I'm pretty sure this is possible in python (with
operator overloading?), can anyone tell me how?

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 16:16:39 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:16:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251602360.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> Here is the class:
> ---------------(begin winLock module)--------------------
> ''' winLock.py
>
> class lockobject
> supports the same function calls as
> posixLock.lockobject
> export to lockobject.py: a wrapper module
> around the win and posix lockobjects
> '''
> import os, msvcrt
>
> modes = {'write':msvcrt.LK_RLCK, 'read':msvcrt.LK_NBLCK,\
>          'unlock':msvcrt.LK_UNLCK}
>
> class lockobject:
>     def _lockoperation(self, lockfilename, mode):
>         size = os.path.getsize(lockfilename)
>         f = open(lockfilename, 'r')
>         f.seek(0)
>         msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), modes[mode], size)
>
>     def getReadLock(self, lockfilename):
>         self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'read')
>
>     def getWriteLock(self, lockfilename):
>         self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'write')
>
>     def unlock(self, lockfilename):
>         self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'unlock')
>
> --------------(end of winLock module)-------------------------
>
> Here is an interactive session with the module:
>
> >>> import winLock
> >>> from winLock import lockobject
> >>> one = lockobject()
> >>> one.getWriteLock(r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt')
> >>> one.unlock(r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\winLock.py", line 28, in unlock
>     self._lockoperation(lockfilename, 'unlock')
>   File "e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\winLock.py", line 19, in
> _lockoperation
>     msvcrt.locking(f.fileno(), modes[mode], size)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
> >>>
>
> Now, why am I getting this Permission denied error? I'm only doing the
> same things I did before without the class? (OK, I did put a seek(0)
> command in there. It didn't used to be there and I was getting the same
> error, so I though maybe I should set the file pointer to the beginning
> of the file each time? Anyhow, doesn't work either way.)
>
> If someone can give me some tips here, I'd really appreciate it.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

I have no experience with msvcrt, but I'm guessing that it might be that
msvcrt.locking() requires the descriptor to be the same when unlocking as when
locking.

Also, where is this posixLock so that I can look at it?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Thu Aug  9 14:56:20 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:56:20 GMT
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b72da7f.423135777@news.laplaza.org>

On 9 Aug 2001 08:58:32 -0700, paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote:

:"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997328534.2490.python-list at python.org>...
:>
:> The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but the
:> change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be a bad
:> incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this reason I'm
:> going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().
:> 
:> although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim
:
:Absolutely not! I was initially surprised that dir(object) didn't give
:the methods as well as the attributes, and disappointed that
:dir(object.__class__) doesn't state the methods available on that
:object. 
....

: Instead, that
:is left up to the programmer, unless he/she decides upon using the new
:introspection module(s).
:
:Perhaps there should be a well-known and widely published way of doing
:this kind of thing, but dir is a well-known function. It's a shame
:about dir([])...

I think so too.  Introspection seems to me to be a feature that should
be easier, rather than harder, to get to.  dir() has done part of the
that job, albeit inconsistently (funny, it didn't seem inconsistent
after I got used to it).  I'd be sad to have less information
available to dir().   I should warn that I'm coming at this mostly
from the idea of teaching Python, which is something I do (less often
than I'd like, sadly).

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 19:49:29 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:49:29 -0400
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com> <3B79AF68.EE4937E7@home.net>
Message-ID: <3B79B909.E6E93848@engcorp.com>

Chris Barker wrote:
> [...]
> or, if processing the file as a list of lines doesn't work, the standard
> idiom is:
> 
> fh = open("file", "r")
> while 1:
>     line = fh.readline()
>     if not line: break
>     # do stuff with line
> 
> I'm not really very fond of "while 1" constructs, but since the break is
> right there next to it, it's not too bad, and I think a little better
> than what I used to do:
> 
> fh = open("file", "r")
> line = fh.readline()
> while 1:
>     # do stuff with line
>     # there could be a LOT of code here
> 
>     line = fh.readline()

Definitely better than what you used to do, since your code
wouldn't exit.  Or was that the point? :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 04:39:44 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:39:44 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <998406891.451155@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1452000.a2XM6RcZxF@lunix.schabi.de> <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <5285736.frOyU7HbjW@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <9md10h01g1e@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:5285736.frOyU7HbjW at lunix.schabi.de...
    ...
> Using python 1.5.2 on Linux, I get:
> schabi at lunix:~/python/dict$ python dict.py
> using keys: 0.41
> using items: 0.42
    ...
> However, using python2.0.1, I get nearly the same values as you:
> schabi at lunix:~/python/dict$ python2 dict.py
> using keys: 0.42
> using items: 0.53
    ...
> This lets me to the following conclusions:
> - Your Machine speed seems to be in the 500Mhz Athlon class :-)

Peculiar indeed -- it's a 300MHz Pentium-2 running NT4 (lots
of RAM though, and a very good overall implementation -- it's
a HP Kayak box).


> - Key Access seems to be faster on Linux than on NT - or dict access
> slower on linux (when your machine is slower than mine)

Yep.  I'll try on Linux, too, when I can.


> - Python 2 is slightly slower in dictionary lookup (or general code
> execution), but it needs 25% more time using keys.

Looks like some memory-allocation/deallocation issue having
to do with the generation of lots of pairs (2-item tuples) --
but I thought those had been optimized going to Python 2,
not de-optimized.


Alex





From aidan.finn at ucd.ienospam  Wed Aug 22 06:55:19 2001
From: aidan.finn at ucd.ienospam (Aidan Finn)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:55:19 +0100
Subject: Tkinter on IRIX and Linux
References: <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E@zikai.org>
Message-ID: <20010822.115519.1447267605.19799@ucd.ienospam>

Hi,
I just had this problem. When you compile python2.0 from source,
tkinter support is not included by default. you need to uncomment and edit the
parts of the module/setup file relevant to _tkinter. Check out the
tkinter section of the README file that comes with python2.0 for more
details.
Also, i had tk installed on my machine but still couldnt get tkinter
working. tk on my distribution was installed from an rpm and some
required header files were missing. After installing tcl and tk from
source, the python source installation with tkinter support worked fine.

AF

In article <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E at zikai.org>, "Junjun Mao" <jmao at zikai.org>
wrote:

> I compiled Python 2.0 on IRIX and Linux. Neither of them supports
> tkinter. When I import Tkinter:
> 
> File "/usr/lib/python2.0/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ? import
> _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
> 
> ImportError: No module named _tkinter
> 
> Should I configure the PYTHONPATH or compile tkinter separately?
> 
> If this has been answered, please point out the link.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Junjun
>


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 10 10:21:19 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:21:19 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: failure using Distutils to build Numeric-20.1
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108101808220.3677-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

I am learning Distutils and am trying to compile Numeric-20.1.0.
The main package gets compiled, but RNG (and others) not, eg:

This is result of:

$ python2.1 setup.py bdist_rpm
...
+ umask 022
+ cd
/home/rnd/src/Numeric-20.1.0/Packages/RNG/build/bdist.linux-i586/rpm/BUILD
+ cd RNG-3.1
+ env CFLAGS=-O2 -m486 -fno-strength-reduce python2.1 setup.py build
running build
running build_py
creating build
creating build/lib.linux-i586-2.1
creating build/lib.linux-i586-2.1/RNG
copying Lib/Statistics.py -> build/lib.linux-i586-2.1/RNG
copying Lib/__init__.py -> build/lib.linux-i586-2.1/RNG
running build_ext
building 'RNG.RNG' extension
creating build/temp.linux-i586-2.1
gcc -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -IInclude -I../../Include
-I/usr/include/python2.1 -c Src/RNGmodule.c -o
build/temp.linux-i586-2.1/RNGmodule.o -O2 -m486 -fno-strength-reduce
Src/RNGmodule.c:17: ranf.h: No such file or directory
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.1512 (%build)
error: command 'rpm' failed with exit status 1
------------------------

(Same command for "build" is successful).


More details: my default python is python1.5, so I provided
setup.cfg for each package directory:

----------------------------
[bdist_rpm]
python=python2.1
----------------------------

I have

$ rpm --version
RPM version 3.0.6

Distutils as come with python2.1.

Is it:
1) my fault of having too many Pythons ;-) or not providing some options
2) rpm's fault of switching to some other dir
   (I noticed /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.12354 in the printout above)
3) some glitch in the Distutils
4) problem in Numeric setup.py
5) Any combination of the above

Anyway, I'd liked to present this problem here (I also posted
to numeric-list, but received no answer from there yet) and hope
to get some hints or answers. Thanks!

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 10, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "This mind intentionally left blank." _/




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 14 15:54:48 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:54:48 +0200
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
Message-ID: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

Something similar was proposed a few months ago. I've put it now into PEP-form.
This is only a rough draft. What do you think of it?

If a few more people than just me think that this is a good idea I'll try to
submit this as a PEP.

Gerhard

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PEP: <pep-no.>
Title: Reserving Keywords For Possible Future Use
Version: Python 2.2
Author: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard Haering)
Status: Draft of Draft
Type: Standards track
Created: 14-Aug-2001
Post-History: <none>

Abstract
    To avoid long transition periods when a new Python feature requires a new
    keyword, this PEP proposes to reserve a set of keywords "in advance".

Specification
    These are the list of keywords reserved for possible future use:

    abstract, directive, foreign, interface, static, yield

    In Python 2.2, a warning will be emitted as soon as any of the above is
    used as an identifier, for example:

    Warning: 'yield' will become a reserved keyword in the future

    In Python 2.3, all of the above become reserved keywords, and using them as
    identifiers will generate a Syntax error.  

Rationale
    If a new Python feature requires the introduction of a new keywords in the
    future and the keyword was in the set of keywords reserved for possible
    future use, the new feature can be made available immediately. There will
    be no need to make a "from __future import" statement during for one Python
    version iteration, like with the introduction of simple generators in
    Python 2.2.        

Open Issues
    Which keywords to reserve.

Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.



Local Variables:
mode: indented-text
indent-tabs-mode: nil
End:

-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From tim at worthy.demon.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 03:54:58 2001
From: tim at worthy.demon.co.uk (Tim Howarth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:54:58 +0100
Subject: Wake-on-LAN via Python?
References: <3B79C006.MD-1.4.15.angband@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5a2452aa4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>

In message <3B79C006.MD-1.4.15.angband at blueyonder.co.uk>
          "Bablos" <angband at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Has anyone managed to implement Wake-on-LAN via Python?  I assume it's
> possible, but I'm not sure what kind of programming would be involved,
> and what kind of information would need to be sent to a machine on a
> LAN in order to wake it up.


There's probably a better way to do it but this is what I did, where
AABBCCDDEEFF is the MAC address of the machine you wish to wake.


MYPORT = 50000

from socket import *

s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM)
s.bind(('', 0))
s.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, 1)

data = 'FFFFFFFFFFFF'
data+= 'AABBCCDDEEFF'*16
sd=''

for a in range(0,len(data),2):
    sd+=chr(int(data[a:a+2],16))

s.sendto(sd, ('<broadcast>', MYPORT))



-- 
___
 |im    ---- ARM Powered ----


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Aug 28 10:30:21 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:30:21 -0500
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>	        <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com> <15242.36734.805100.942581@beluga.mojam.com> <mailman.998939390.29144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8BAAFD.70407@wi.mit.edu>

Justin Doak wrote:

>Skip Montanaro wrote:
>
>>    Justin> ... the GUI builder should be cross-platform (i.e., the code it
>>    Justin> generates should work on Windows and Linux at least) and an open
>>    Justin> source tool is preferable to a commercial one for cost
>>    Justin> reasons.... If anyone has any thoughts on this matter, I'd love
>>    Justin> to hear them.
>>
>>You might want to check out the gtk/gnome-python/libglade/pyglade
>>combination.
>>
>
>Interestingly enough, this was my first choice. I have experience using
>this at my previous employer and was quite happy with it. (Note also the
>GladeBase module written by Mitch Chapman,
>http://www.bioreason.com/~brian/GladeBase.html. It automatically hooks
>up callbacks to Python code and looks for .glade files off your
>PYTHONPATH.) However, for the project I'm currently on, we need to
>support both Linux and Windows environments. A little investigation
>revealed that Gtk did not appear to be well supported on Windows. It
>seemed that someone had attempted a port, but it was troublesome and
>they weren't going to support it. If all these tools are reasonably well
>supported on Windows, perhaps I can seriously consider this option
>again. Is anyone using these tools on a linux box to develop GUIs, then
>running them, reasonably trouble-free, on Windows?
>
>JD
>
Hi Justin.  

I have a bundled version of glade and gtk that works fairly well under 
windows.  There are, of course, obvious problems with some functionality 
with windows such as drag and drop.  The title bar is also mysteriously 
f'd up.   However you should be able to use it fairly easily since 
you're an old hand at GladeBase :)

The functionality is fairly suprising although it doesn't support the 
fancy gnome widgets such as Wizards.

 I also really, really like Qt.  It has an extremely sensible design and 
is fairly cross platform (even runs on Mac OS X)  The licensing through 
black adder is very reasonable (I don't think Los Alamos can use the 
non-commercial version but I really forget the licensing)  But I don't 
think they are out of beta testing.

I don't like black adder for a source editor but black adder + xemacs 
for win 32 is a killer combination in my opinion.  Check it out at 
www.thekompany.com

Anyway, I am looking for web space to put up the installer for the 
windows version of glade/gtk and gladebase but feel free to email me if 
anyone wants it.  It even comes with documentation and examples!

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research


>
> 
>
>>--
>>Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
>>http://www.mojam.com/
>>http://www.musi-cal.com/
>>
>




From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Aug  3 20:00:52 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 02:00:52 +0200
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <mailman.995637214.19543.python-list@python.org> <memo.20010803215845.16469d@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B6B3B34.5991883A@stroeder.com>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> 
> When you want to fix "mistakes", why do you
> think you get howls of protest? It's because for /some/ of us those are
> not mistakes at all, they're Just The Way It Should Be.

+1

> The changes are
> not improving the language, they're just shuffling around the marketplace,
> and it's in serious danger of never staying in one market sector for long
> enough to take off as well as it should (because it really is a delight to
> work with).

Very valid argument!

> You have lots of good ideas and suggestions from others. /Please/ don't
> change Python to accommodate them all; it would spoil it. Put them into a
> /new/ language.

+1

Ciao, Michael.


From zooko at zooko.com  Sat Aug  4 12:04:04 2001
From: zooko at zooko.com (zooko at zooko.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 09:04:04 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
Message-ID: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie>

 Skip Montanaro wrote:
>
> How long should I wait for this to print out an error message?  On my
> Mandrake 8.0 system running Python 2.1.1 I'm letting it run (and run, and
> run) and have not so far seen a problem.

Hm.  I took your modified version of my test script and added to the end:

print "i, ", i

And I get plenty of errors...

Hm.  strace tells me that this is what is happening:

------- begin included strace output
gettimeofday({996940586, 982012}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 982154}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 982295}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 982435}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 982576}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 982718}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 982859}, NULL) = 0
gettimeofday({996940586, 976989}, NULL) = 0
fstat(1, {st_mode=S_IFIFO|0600, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4001a000
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {0x400bbb50, [], 0x4000000}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {SIG_DFL}, NULL, 8) = 0
write(1, "this is WRONG: ox: 996940586.983"..., 59this is WRONG: ox: 996940586.983, x: 996940586.977

i,  55
) = 59

------- begin included strace output

So my `gettimeofday()' sometimes returns a decreasing value.

Hm.  So I suppose I should report this as bug to debian...

What should I do with the bug report that I filed on sf.net?

Thanks for your help, Skip and Roman! 

Regards,

Zooko




From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Sat Aug 11 11:12:11 2001
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 16:12:11 +0100
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <9l3i0b$c0u$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi Andrei,

> Is there some way to get aterm (and other terms) window dimension(s)
> without curses? I tried (so far) commands.getoutput("echo $LINES")
> but it doesn't return anything when used in a program, although it
> does work from an interpreter.. what gives?

What about reading the output of tput(1) and letting that do all the
hard graft?

    % tput cols; tput lines
    80
    40
    % tput cols ; tput lines
    96
    32


Ralph.



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug 23 01:55:15 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:55:15 +0200
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:01:55 GMT."
             <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> 
Message-ID: <m15ZnSV-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
> be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.
> I know that TheClass.__dict__[<methodname>] will kinda
> work, but it will fail if <methodname> is implemented only in
> a base class of TheClass. I could do the Python method lookup
> dance via __bases__ etc., but I'd be surprised if there weren't
> already a standard function to do it. Sadly, perusal of the
> tutorial, library reference, language reference (briefly),
> and FAQ has thus far been unenlightening. Pointers
> appreciated.

Python 2.1 (#1, May  2 2001, 18:27:26) 
[GCC 2.7.2.1] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class A:
...   def foo(): pass
... 
>>> class B(A): pass
... 
>>> getattr (B, "foo")
<unbound method A.foo>
>>> 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From new_name at mit.edu  Fri Aug 24 07:29:51 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 07:29:51 -0400
Subject: Compiling extension module
References: <lrqh7.38054$Vs4.359583@zonnet-reader-1>
Message-ID: <etdy9o9ofv4.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Have a look at the distutils module.  It makes this sort of thing pretty
trivial.  For instance, I have the source code to an extension called
_sequence in the file _sequencemodule.c.  In the same directory, I have
a file called setup.py, which contains

import distutils

from distutils.core import Extension, setup

setup(name='sequence_transforms',
      version='0.1',
      maintainer='Alex',
      maintainer_email='cut_me_out at hotmail.com',
      ext_modules=[Extension('_sequence',
                             ['_sequencemodule.c']
                             )
                   ],
      py_modules=['sequences']
      )
      
then I just type

python setup.py install --prefix=/scratch/tmp/my_installation_prefix 

HTH.
Alex.


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Aug 28 11:41:57 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:41:57 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

<gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9mfqmi$ko4$1 at thorium.cix.co.uk...
> In article <9mfm1l$gs3$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl>,
> piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki) wrote:
>
> > How can I tell python to give me only 2 digits after decimal point? And
> > of course store it in a variable.
> >
> > So I want 'c' to be 3.33.
>
> c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)

That's unreliable.  Use this instead:

c = (a * 100) / b
s = '%03d' % c
file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From garry at sage.att.com  Thu Aug  9 16:52:56 2001
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:52:56 GMT
Subject: indetation problem
References: <b0fd9226.0107261009.33a6b066@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B72F828.5C10D213@sage.att.com>

Fuming Wang wrote:
> 
> I am experiencing indentation problems when mixing tabs and spaces in
> my code. 

don't do that.

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   sometimes we ride on your horses
Senior Hacker                   sometimes we walk alone
Software Innovation Services    sometimes the songs that we hear
AT&T Labs                       are just songs of our own
garry at sage.att.com


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 12:54:08 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:54:08 +0100
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net>
 <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
 <1rjctgABtPe7Ewxc@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <cp7kw6em6n.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <LhPzvXAweVe7Ew3O@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <cp7kw6em6n.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>, Guido van
Rossum <guido at python.org> writes
>
....
>> I guess what I'm trying to get at is can getset be used to create a
>> readonly module level global or can it only be used for attributes.
>
>The getset descriptor works in cooperation with the default
>__getattr__ implementation.  When a.foo is requested, __getattr__
>looks up a.__class__.foo first; if this is found and it is a
>descriptor, the descriptor's __get__ is called to finish the
>__getattr__ request.  Ditto for __setattr__.
>
>If you could subclass modules (you can't yet in 2.2a1, but you will in
>2.2), you could do this for module attribute references, but global
>variable references don't go through __getattr__ and __setattr__ on
>the module -- they use the C APIs PyDict_GetItem and PyDict_SetItem
>and you can't override those.
>
>--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

OK I'll bite. What's a module attribute? I naively thought that

#M.py
X=3
....

makes X a global in M and also an attribute of module M? Obviously I'm
wrong. Are there things (apart from builtins etc) which are more global
than X in M's scope?
-- 
Robin Becker


From dalke at acm.org  Tue Aug  7 11:10:40 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:10:40 +0100
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9kpeft$kbm$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9kpif7027e@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9kpp1j$bop$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

[c.l.ruby removed, for obvious reasons]

Alex Martelli wrote:
>If you want existing instances to NOT be changed, in Python,
>just leave the existing class object alone and build a new one.

Right, but she wanted a way to update existing class
definitions *and* existing instances.

>E.g,
>class theclass(theclass): pass

Cute :) but it doesn't update existing instances.

class Spam:
  def eat(self): print "yum"

spam = Spam()
spam.eat()

# Oops, I don't like spam, so let me change that
 ... code to update Spam, as perhaps
def Spam.eat(self): print "yech"
 ...

# Uses the old 'spam'
spam.eat()

This should print
yum
yech

and using a 'class Spam(Spam): def eat(self): print "yech"'
is not enough.

BTW, I wish to stress that I am not pushing this to be added to
Python.  I am not sure enough about the use case on what this
is based to tell if this is a useful solution.  (Eg, it could
be that reloading a module in a way that changes class definitions
in-place rather than replacing them is more appropriate.)

Still, I know in interactive mode that I've made a lot of
mistakes in making a class, so perhaps something like this
would be useful.  (Given the chance for abuse, I don't think
it is useful.)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 26 00:38:34 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:38:34 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 ... stupid error in import.c
References: <9m609h02ca2@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <uvugotgfhdhf7f0fenfeh27bqakbk9127r@4ax.com>

Armin Steinhoff <a-steinhoff at web.de> wrote:
>
>Hi,
> to all who are porting 2.1.1 to a UNIX like system.
>
>I'm porting 2.1.1 to QNX6 and got the situation that the module 'os' could not
>be be found with 'import os'
>
>After some hacking with DDD .. I found out that the pathes used by the search
>algorithm of import.c has nothing to do with the directory structure of the UNIX
>distribution of Python 2.1.1 =:-/

I'm not sure you really understand the normal layout of a Unix directory
structure.  In Unix, you never install a product in the root of a
filesystem.  The root is kept as simple as possible:  /usr, /home, /etc,
/var, /boot, /tmp, and little else.  The various files that make up a
product get spread around.  Binaries go into a global binary directory.
Libraries go into a global library directory.  Configuration files go into
yet another central directory.

When you install Python in a Unix-like system, you specify a top-level
"prefix".  This is usually either /usr or /usr/local.  The Python binary is
then installed in $prefix/bin.  The modules are installed in
$prefix/lib/python-2.1 (that is, only the first two digits of the version
are used to make the library path).

>I have installed Python in the root directory and set PYTHONHOME/PYTHONPATH to
>/Python-2.1.1 -> the path to he library modules is then
>
>                     -> /Python-2.1.1/Lib

What you describe is the way a Windows installation works.  This is NOT how
a Unix installation usually works.

>The search algorithm of import.c is using the following search path sequence:
>
>  "os.so"   -> I don't know why it should make sense to open
>               a shared object with fopen ??
>  "osmodule.so"
>  "os.py"
>  "os.pyc"
>
>  "/Python-2.1.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
>
>  "/Python-2.1.1/lib/python2.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ who got the idea that this is part of the 
>                                UNIX distribution ??

Well, that's the way it works.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Thu Aug 16 10:24:20 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:24:20 +0200
Subject: Hacking in python
References: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com> <3B7B518D.20172F7C@engcorp.com> <5870735.CxCBeP46Va@lunix.schabi.de> <3B7BBD2C.7E83B4CF@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B7BD794.1010603@___skynamics.com.invalid>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Markus Schaber wrote:
> 
>>Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> schrub:
>>
>>
>>>>Does any 1 know any thing about hacking in python
>>>>
>>>There are no Python hackers (using your definition) in
>>>this newsgroup.  I guess you'll have to look elsewhere.
>>>
>>Assuming "in" means "using python", and "hacking" means "doing illegal
>>things" (which is not the original and intended meaning of this term)
>>then I hope there are none.
>>
> 
> Those were the OP's definitions, and I agree with you.
> I was trying gently to dissuade him from bothering...
> we don't need that kind of participation "in Python". :)
> 
> 

In fact I didn't see the OP provide any definitions ;-) But the style of 
the posting and the sender's domain would suggest he meant cracking.

-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From jmao at zikai.org  Tue Aug 21 00:39:27 2001
From: jmao at zikai.org (Junjun Mao)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:39:27 -0400
Subject: Tkinter on IRIX and Linux
Message-ID: <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E@zikai.org>

I compiled Python 2.0 on IRIX and Linux. Neither of them supports
tkinter. When I import Tkinter:

File "/usr/lib/python2.0/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk

ImportError: No module named _tkinter

Should I configure the PYTHONPATH or compile tkinter separately?

If this has been answered, please point out the link.

Thanks

Junjun



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 20 14:16:13 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:16:13 -0700
Subject: MSHTML
References: <mailman.998265329.9432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpu9qvbpu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

You're best off asking about this on one of the COM-related newsgroups.
Try for example

  microsoft.public.inetsdk.programming.html_objmodel

or
 
  microsoft.public.inetsdk.programming.webbrowser_ctl


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug  2 01:11:01 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:11:01 -0400
Subject: range(2.9); coercions
In-Reply-To: <92ae279c.0107311433.98a8e10@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPHLCAA.tim.one@home.com>

[John Machin]
> Does it concern anyone that range(2.9) *silently* returns [0, 1]?

Yes.  In particular, it concerns Guido, but there's no obvious way to fix it
(in general) now without breaking tons of code.

> ...
> However my real concern is not with the behaviour of range() itself,
> but with the *general* mechanism by which it gets that answer -- this
> mechanism would have been used by a large proportion of all the C
> extension modules ever written.

Bingo.

> Unless the birds ate my breadcrumbs while I was stumbling around the
> source for Python 2.1, what happens is this: the range()
> implementation calls PyArg_ParseTuple, saying that it expects "i"
> (integer) argument(s). This is however interpreted to include any
> instance of a type that has an nb_int slot, or a class that has an
> __int__() method.
>
> So 2.9 is a float, the float type supplies an nb_int slot, and
> int(2.9) -> 2 and so 2 is used as the open upper bound.

That's the problem.  nb_int doesn't distinguish the "I'm explicitly and
intentionally coercing away information" role from the "I'm sure this really
is an integer, but that it's inconviently in a floating-point format, so
just change representations" role.

You didn't get any other response to your note because it's a *real* problem
<wink>.

and-possibly-unsolvable-in-practice-if-not-in-theory-ly y'rs  - tim




From digitig at cix.co.uk  Sat Aug  4 19:13:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:13 +0100 (BST)
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <3B6B1B8A.EB9644AA@Lugoj.Com>
Message-ID: <memo.20010805001353.60291J@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <3B6B1B8A.EB9644AA at Lugoj.Com>, JamesL at Lugoj.Com (James Logajan) 
wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
> > 
> > "Tim Rowe" <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:memo.20010803215850.16469f at digitig.compulink.co.uk...
> > > Just a quick reminder that the reason I can't get any sysadmin to
> > let me
> > > use Python is that all the ones I encounter consider Python too
> > unstable
> > > for serious work. I see their point :-(
> > 
> > Compared to what?   I'm am acually curious.
> 
> If I may interject:
> 
> Bourne shell.
> C.

Yep. And even Perl, because one has to overcome a lot of inertia to shift 
a sysop. It's not enough to simply be /better/ :-)


From senux at senux.com.NOSPAM  Mon Aug 27 03:21:13 2001
From: senux at senux.com.NOSPAM (Brian Lee)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:21:13 GMT
Subject: child process
Message-ID: <3B89F556.70500@senux.com.NOSPAM>

Hi,

I made a child process by fork function. When the mother
process is killed, the child process is killed also.

But I want child process not to be killed even the mother
process is killed. How can I child process run independently?

Any examples code?



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug  6 01:00:28 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:00:28 -0400
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
In-Reply-To: <300720011113580034%mday@apple.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELOLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mark Day, in reference to
 <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=1d9d3c24ba2f933d>]
> ... But what struck me was that when a non-programmer came to a
> Python discussion list asking whether Python was suitable for his
> project, several people warning him about the pitfalls of division (and
> not much else).

As Arthur (thank you!) said later, the bulk of the thread was about
cautions appropriate when writing life-critical apps, and mostly about
floating point.

You may have missed (although I don't see how <wink>) that in his initial
msg, the pharmacist said his apps were "very math oriented", and that he had
been using:

1. Programs written in Basic

and cross-checking them against

2. a TI 85 calculator

and

3. hand calculations.

and he didn't display signs of familiarity with other systems.  Since all of
those return 0.5 for 1/2, he had to be made acutely aware that Python
numerics act radically different in this one respect.  Indeed, given the
context, that was the single most important thing for him to know about
Python at the start!  Unless you'd like him to compute *your* prescription
using a naively ported old Basic program?

didn't-think-so-me-neither-ly y'rs  - tim




From benc1 at today.com.au  Wed Aug  1 04:19:41 2001
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 01:19:41 -0700
Subject: how to know whether the item in a diretory is a file/directory
References: <mailman.996630962.3179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0108010019.3d568df4@posting.google.com>

Your answer lies in

os.path.isdir or os.path.isfile

"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.996630962.3179.python-list at python.org>...
> I want to process all the files in a diretory,and ignore the subdirectorys in it
> ,I use  os.listdir() to list all the items,but I do not know whether the selected
> item is a file
> __________________________________________
> 
> DVD?????10?  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm
> ???????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm


From arturs at iidea.pl  Sun Aug 26 18:07:42 2001
From: arturs at iidea.pl (Artur Skura)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 22:07:42 GMT
Subject: bsddb for simple database [very basic]
Message-ID: <slrn9oit5s.b5f.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>

I need very simple database functionality for a weblog.

(Most things generally available are very heavy, require
Potgres/MySQL/PHP/whatever - this one will be just a little boa+a couple 
of cgi scripts, very flexible and easy to maintain).

I thought about using one of the standard db modules, like bsddb. (First
thing i have found is that documentation is quite scarce. I've seen some
examples of using marshal with bsddb, but this seems like too much now.)

I need to set up a simple database:

* key
* name
* date
* comment

What is the simplest way to do that?

If I do

mydb["0"] = "foo"

etc, I will just have standard dictionary pairs, with strings.
I need records. How do I do that? 

Is there a document describing bsddb Python interface in more detail than
the few words in the documentation?

Regards,
Artur
-- 
http://www.wolneprogramy.org


From bob at passcal.nmt.edu  Tue Aug 28 11:01:40 2001
From: bob at passcal.nmt.edu (Bob Greschke)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:01:40 -0600
Subject: How big is that canvas in the window?
References: <9m6fks$2blu$1@newshost.nmt.edu> <3B86C522.169F2868@earthlink.net> <5537fd92.0108260412.21e458d0@posting.google.com> <3b8a4d88.3349828@news1.on.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <9mgbn9$1dqi$1@newshost.nmt.edu>

Why is everything in the appendix??  I NEVER look in the appendix. :-)

We just did install PMW to our server, so the project will go in that
direction.  I just want to get it to work ONCE the hard way.  I just
wanna see a graph! :-)

Thanks everybody!

Bob

> I can't view the URL you reference for some reason, but I'll
> take a shot at answering your question.
>
> The canvas object is always -logically- the same size: whatever
> values you give for the "width" and "height" options when the
> canvas was created. It will be clipped if the containing window
> is smaller than the canvas, but the contents of the clipped
> areas are "still there" (they'll be repainted if they become
> visible again). The upshot of all this is that you can just draw
> using absolute canvas coordinates and everything will work.
> If you need to find out the (canvas) coordinates of a particular
> item on the canvas, use "canvas.bbox(<item>)". If you need the
> canvas to be scrollable, attach scrollbars to it and hook
> them up using the xscrollcmd/yscrollcmd/xview/yview options.
>
>Does that help?
>
> --
> # Joe Knapka
> # "You know how many remote castles there are along the
> #  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
> # Linux MM docs:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
> "Robert Roy" <rjroy at takingcontrol.com> wrote in message
news:3b8a4d88.3349828 at news1.on.sympatico.ca...
> On 26 Aug 2001 05:12:52 -0700, koen at behindthesofa.dhs.org (Koen
> Bossers) wrote:
>
> >Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<3B86C522.169F2868 at earthlink.net>...
> >> Bob Greschke wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Here's the idea:
> >> >
> >> > www.passcal.nmt.edu/~bob/unlinked/images/trdpy.jpg
> >> >
> >> > It's in Python/Tkinter.  See the "Plot" button?  I want to draw
a
> >> > graph in the black area.  How do I find out the dimensions of
the
> >> > black canvas area???  I can make a guess when I first draw
everything
> >> > by setting the size of everything, but I don't want to do that.
I
> >> > want the user to be able to resize the window and then redraw
the
> >> > graph.  I got to exactly this same point in GTK+ and had to
give up.
> >> > Am I going to have to write this program in Java?? :-)
> >> >
> >> > (The program is actually being written for/on a UNIX box.  I
just had
> >> > to use a Windows machine to get the screen dump.)
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >
> >interactive session:
> >
> >>>> from Tkinter import *
> >>>> root = Tk()
> >>>> canv = Canvas(root)
> >>>> canv.pack()
> >>>> canv.cget('height')
> >'267'
> >>>> canv.cget('width')
> >'381'
> >
> >
> >found at:
> >http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm.
> >Section "Basic Widget Methods"
> >
> >Please bookmark this site: a lifesaver when programming with
Tkinter.
> >
> >
> >Cheers, Koen
>
> Bob,
>
> See also winfo_width, winfo_height. In some circumstances, I have
> found these to be more reliable than cget('width"), and
cget("height")
>
>
>
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x9170-window-re
lated-information.htm
>
> also you might want to try using PMW
>
> http://pmw.sourceforge.net/
>
> It has nice megawidgets including a scrolled canval
>
>
>
> Bob Roy




From h4rv3st at web.de  Thu Aug 30 09:05:21 2001
From: h4rv3st at web.de (Harvest T. Moon)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:05:21 +0200
Subject: sgmllib & parsing problem
Message-ID: <9mld7t$2pqvl$1@ID-22517.news.dfncis.de>

i'm writing a client for the JammerIM system in Python (for BeOS, if anyone
cares) and the system is based on XML-pieces.
i have subclassed SGMLParser from sgmllib and everything is working fine,
but _one_ thing screws up the whole parser:
mostly the pieces come in ordinary tags-structure like

<message from="..">
    <body>Test</body>
    <blabla>asd</blabla>
        <nothing>important</nothing>
        <really>stupid</really>
</message>

that works fine and i get myself a nice structured MsgObject with
.SubElements() etc, all right.
but somtimes some tags don't deliver content only attributes so they come as

<strange id="0815" thread="123" />

which is quite clear to me that there is no closing tag, but SGMLParser
doesn't see the ending '/' and assumes it's an ordinary start-tag, so it
never gets closed and the whole object is down the drain as "strange"
survives in the stack forever.

how can i make SGMLParser to see that '/' or handle the whole tag with '/'
at the end as a standalone-tag?

regards,
Harvest T. Moon




From wyatts at onr.com  Thu Aug 23 08:39:20 2001
From: wyatts at onr.com (wyatt stafford)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:39:20 GMT
Subject: Python Books
References: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <YP6h7.18338$tW3.239337@news.easynews.com>

If you are new to both programming and Python, I like "Learn to Program
Using Python," "The Quick Python Book" and "Core Python Programming."

Each has it own angle, which serves my learning style well.

pattern matching chaos, what a learning style,
wyatt


"Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BI1h7.17461$V7.498949 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> I was wandering if anyone here read the few books that are out there for
> python. Lately the only set of books i have seen that give alot of info
are
> the O'Reilly editions such Learning and Programming with python.
>
>     Are these books the best to have considering I'm still moving up the
> ladder of programming? Also are there going to more publications to
support
> python programming?
>
>
>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 18:55:30 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:55:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221845340.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221854350.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>
> >
> >  [snip]
> >
> > All modules in those directories should have a valid __file__ attribute.  In
> > addition, modules that are statically linked into the interpreter will not
> > have a __file__ attribute, so you can't really tell if they are part of the
> > core or a third-party extension that was statically linked into the
> > interpreter.
>
>  [snip]
>

Never mind, I read your e-mail again. Time for me to go home and get some
sleep, I think...

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 17 16:12:18 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:12:18 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
In-Reply-To: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <001401c12758$eacbbab0$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

> is there a data type like the const in c/c++? ive been
> combing through the doc and it doesnt seem to have one
> or am i missing something somewhere?

No such thing exists. Just set a variable with the value that you want
and don't change it. If you really need a constant (which you almost
certainly don't), you can use the cookbook example:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/59878

Cheers,
Brian




From wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net  Thu Aug  2 17:08:50 2001
From: wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net (William Tanksley)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:08:50 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>        <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at> <mailman.996694262.6913.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgq4u.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <45da7.22037$WD1.1394095@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mjgb2.ek0.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:07:32 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:
>"William Tanksley" <wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net> wrote ...
>> Oops, I just realised that using 'class' as a variable name can't possibly
>> work: the parser can't currently disambiguate
>> class = myClass
>> from a class declaration, since both start with the token "class".

>I've spent a couple of minutes trying to remember if I ever wrote
>    self = something
>Nope, don't remember that. Which isn't to say it might not be meaningful in
>some context I haven't imagined.

Bad example.  Okay, replace my example with:

class.something = other

There ya go, same ambiguity.

But aside from that, I really dislike the idea of having a forced classname.

> Steve

-- 
-William "Billy" Tanksley


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 08:11:56 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:11:56 +0200
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net> <3B7023A4.6020408@herts.ac.uk> <9kpg5k02utj@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B7060B7.1D63A71D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9kraac02b62@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Joseph A. Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B7060B7.1D63A71D at earthlink.net...
    ...
> > > > one_of_each([],[]).
> > > > one_of_each([H|T],[H1|Ts]) :- member(H1,H), one_of_each(T,Ts).
> >     ...
> > > backtracking Horn-clause resolution engine, that can't be real
> > > terminology, I am sure you just plagerised Elmer Fudge :)
> >
> > The terminology is right, but the Prolog example he gives looks
> > just like a transliteration of a ML or Haskell program and uses no
> > backtracking that I can see.
>
> Yet it's there. member/2 is nondeterministic, so the code
> above will find every solution, if invoked via findall or
> within a failure loop.

Sorry, you're right: this doesn't *use* backtracking itself,
but it does *support* it (as it contains no cuts), so a
findall, or failures in other clauses using this definition
of one_of_each, will indeed make it exhaust all the various
possibilities.


> I don't know ML or Haskell (yet :-)

They don't do implicit backtracking.  But I think there
are now languages which do support both the backtracking/
logic programming/unification aspects AND the functional
programming approach that ML and Haskell emphasize so
well (particularly the latter, with its default to lazy
evaluation and immutability) -- no direct experience,
but I'm told both Mercury and Mozart are worth checking
out if you're into such stuff (I would be, but finding
the time for it is another issue:-).


Alex





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  9 12:32:14 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:32:14 -0500
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <Xns90F88E98EDD95atodddexterpinioncom@203.2.194.51>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
        <mailman.997300936.7249.python-list@python.org>
        <Xns90F88E98EDD95atodddexterpinioncom@203.2.194.51>
Message-ID: <15218.47886.485462.228008@beluga.mojam.com>

    Andy> A possible addition to the Vim section is Vim online
    Andy> (http://vim.sourceforge.net/) described as ".. a central place for
    Andy> the Vim community to store useful Vim tips and tools."

Your wish is my command...

Skip



From jwbaxter at spamcop.com  Mon Aug 20 12:31:10 2001
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:31:10 -0700
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
References: <to13ef3kf4vh17@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200820010931108842%jwbaxter@spamcop.com>

In article <to13ef3kf4vh17 at corp.supernews.com>, Stephen Boulet
<spboulet at speakeasy.net> wrote:

> Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for 
> recent code red queries:
> 
>         import string
> 
>         f=open('/var/log/httpd/access_log', 'r')
>         lines = f.readlines()
>         ip_list = []
> 
>         for line in lines:
>                 if string.find(line, "GET /default.ida"):
>                         a = string.split(line)
>                         if a[0] not in ip_list:
>                                 ip_list.append(a[0])
> 
>         print "The number of IPs in my list is %d" % len(ip_list)
> 
>         f.close()
> 
> Hmmm. I have a list with 873 entries. Now what do I do with it?  ;)

One thing you do is avoid getting into this situation:

   http://www.linuxfreak.org/post.php/08/17/2001/134.html

wherein, if the story actually represents the facts, telling a
newspaper editor that his paper's site was wide open to "adjustments"
by anyone leads to FBI, federal prosecutor, etc interest.  [It's quite
possible that the problem was "demonstrating" rather then "telling".]

  --John


From doug.fort at verizon.net  Thu Aug 30 08:53:48 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 13:53:48 +0100
Subject: two little syntax questions
References: <MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <3b8e375a$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Marcus Stojek wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Two little syntax questions:
> 1.-----------------------------
> I have a huge dict of 3-tuples. I need the min and max value
> of all tuple[0] entries.
> 
> I would like to use reduce. Something like:
> 
> nodes[1]=(3,2,5)
> nodes[2]=(-1,2,9)
> nodes[3]=(0,1,6)
> nodes[4]=(2,9,1)
> 
> minx = reduce(lambda a,b:min(a,b),nodes???and now what)
> 

How about just 

minx = min(nodes.values())[0]

i.e tuple[0] of the minimum tuple?


> how do I explain: take first entry in tuple for all keyvalues
> 2.------------------------------
> 
> I have to print the remaining entries of a list
> (first entries are printed in groups of 8 per line)
> 
> lines = len(list)/8
> rest = len(list)%8
> print rest * "i," % (list[lines*8:])
> 

print rest % "%i, " % tuple(list[lines*8:])

This will work, but I'm sure there is a more elegant way to do it. It might 
be in the Python Cookbook.

> doesn't work. Okay I know print is expecting a tuple and
> list[lines*8:] is not. So how can I transform this into
> a tuple.
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 13 03:27:42 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:27:42 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Copy constructors 
In-Reply-To: <m15WATw-000wcEC@swing.co.at>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131015580.28208-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

Hello,

I am against PEP 252 in its present form!

It makes OO in Python too complex without obvious necessity.

One of the cool features of Python I am glad it has is the ability to
change class attributes on the fly (I've already posted it to Guido some
time ago (maybe a year ago), specifically asking NOT TO CHANGE this Python
ability.

No API will make things as simple as they are shown below:

This is my test if the changes to the Python are appropriate
for me:

--------------------------------------------------------

def do_fly(self):
  return "I am flying."
def do_swim(self):
  return "I am swiming."
def do_sing(self):
  return "I am singing."

class Everybody:
  def i_am(self):
    return "I am %s." % self.__class__.__name__
  def __getattr__(self, attname):
    """This is added only for the text below to be "nice",
    in reality it is not needed"""
    def cant_do(self=None, action=attname):
      return "I can't %s." % action
    return cant_do

class Fish(Everybody):
  swim = do_swim

class Mermaid(Everybody):
  sing = do_sing
  swim = do_swim

class Bird(Everybody):
  fly = do_fly
  sing = do_sing

class Man(Everybody):
  sing = do_sing


f = Fish(); r = Mermaid(); b = Bird(); m = Man()
print f.i_am(), f.swim(), f.sing(), f.fly()
print r.i_am(), r.swim(), r.sing(), r.fly()
print b.i_am(), b.swim(), b.sing(), b.fly()
print m.i_am(), m.swim(), m.sing(), m.fly()
print "Man learned to swim."
Man.swim = do_swim
print m.i_am(), m.swim(), m.sing(), m.fly()

-----------------------------------------------------------

I am Fish. I am swiming. I can't sing. I can't fly.
I am Mermaid. I am swiming. I am singing. I can't fly.
I am Bird. I can't swim. I am singing. I am flying.
I am Man. I can't swim. I am singing. I can't fly.
Man learned to swim.
I am Man. I am swiming. I am singing. I can't fly.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So I fully understand Glyph's concerns!

As I said already, PEP252 makes things too complex. Probably, there is a
more obvious way to make builtin classes inheritable and type==class
things. 

For example, by using __builtin__ trick:

class MyNumber(integer):

   def myadd(self, x, y):
     return x*y

   __builtin__.add = myadd


The essence of the idea is to gather builtin (C) methods into special
namespace: __builtin__, the same way it is done with builtin fuctions.
This will allow Python programmers to remember less details and
will give shadowing for free!!!

The summary of proposal is to leave things as they are, but to introduce
__builtin__ namespace for optimized methods.

(Name __builtin__ could be different)


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 






From micampe at f2s.com  Fri Aug 10 09:46:19 2001
From: micampe at f2s.com (Michele Campeotto)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:46:19 GMT
Subject: popen3 and ssh
Message-ID: <3B73E5C6.2080200@f2s.com>

   Hi, I'm trying to connect to CVS via SSH from a Python script, it 
works fine when used over a network, but on a local machine it seems 
that SSH doesn't get the password that I'm sending... anybody can give 
an hint?

   cvs_input.write(self.password + '\n')

   (cvs_input comes from the popen3 call)

-- 
   Michele - www.moleskine.f2s.com



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  2 12:37:08 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 18:37:08 +0200
Subject: ANN: More XML support for Python etc
References: <996768756.767825@rexx.com>
Message-ID: <j4n15ia05n.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com> writes:

> You may be asking, Why did you implement wrappers for XML
> capabilities for Python, when we already have PyXML/4Suite?  PyXML
> is super.  And there is no way that these wrappers for
> libxml/libxslt can be considered anywhere near as mature and rich
> as PyXML.

I think it would be desirable to have the wrappers follow the
interfaces of the standard Python libraries, i.e. the SAX2 and the DOM
interface as published in the library documentation. You could also
consider using the registration facilities of PyXML for SAX drivers
and DOM implementations, even if you distribute your wrappers
independent from PyXML.

Regards,
Martin


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 26 01:06:53 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:06:53 -0400
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
In-Reply-To: <slrn9odhqj.139.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEBKLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Gareth McCaughan]
> And it should really be called "separation" rather than
> "comprehension", since set theorists use "comprehension"
> to mean constructing { x : P(x) } and "separation" to mean
> constructing { x in y: P(x) }.

I agreed with that anticipatorily, e.g. in

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/453772

Regardless, we're stuck with the name now, and if "imaginary numbers" can
without protest faithfully reflect confusions generations after they've been
cleared up, it's following a fine tradition <wink>.




From jknapka at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 17 18:06:07 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:06:07 GMT
Subject: Question about Tkinter message boxes
References: <wVff7.81044$k7.19991986@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D5BA4.69A8C2EC@earthlink.net>

Mike Callahan wrote:
> 
> When I run this code:
> 
> import tkMessageBox as tkM
> tkM.showerror('Error', 'Test messgage')
> 
> I get two windows. A blank Tk box and the error box. When I click on OK in
> the error box, the blank Tk box remains. How do I keep the blank Tk box from
> appearing?
> 
> Mike Callahan

Tk will always create a root window whether you want one
or not. You can create it explicitly and then hide
it at the beginning of your program:

root = Tkinter.Tk()
root.withdraw()

...then do your message-box stuff.

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# 2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt A


From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Aug  8 14:03:28 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:03:28 +0200
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <20010808195908.A874@xs4all.nl>
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com> <20010808195908.A874@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20010808200328.B874@xs4all.nl>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 07:59:08PM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote:

> What you were looking for is the 'logical OR' operator, '||',

Sigh... this is what happens when you program C and Perl more than Python :)
The logical OR operator in Python is, of course, "or", not "||". Sorry about
that brainfart.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 04:25:52 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 01:25:52 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lgt9j011q1@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7x66bkihgv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> If I felt severely limited by Python's struct package, I'd see it
> as an occasion to hack on it to extend it to my liking -- then one
> can submit the enhanced struct for inclusion into Python and/or
> just publish it on Parnassus or somewhere.  (That's assuming one's
> a C hacker, but, as gawk's original author, I would definitely
> believe you must be!-).
> 
> The fact that struct is a separate module means all you have to
> grok for the hacking is 1200 lines of code in structmodule.c,
> and the reasonably-clean Python C API -- a far sight from
> having to hack the internals of a large program... that's
> always gonna be hairier.

Thanks, I might extend the struct package as a contribution to Python
if you think the maintainers are likely to take the change.  It's
something of a pain though.  It probably is too late to get it into
2.2, I don't know how much longer after that 2.3 would be, and after
2.3 is released it will take a while for all the OS ports to be
completed and a while after that before most users upgrade.

Putting something on Parnassus doesn't really help much.  The idea is
to be able to publish Python code that uses the new features, and have
users be able to run it without depending on special C modules.  I
don't even have access to C compilers for all the OS's I want the code
to run on.


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 27 10:24:45 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 07:24:45 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs - Summary (Long)
References: <270c68fe.0108270158.616fa221@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mdl7d$ado$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <270c68fe.0108270158.616fa221 at posting.google.com>,
Alan Green <web.mail at lycos.com> wrote:
>
>13. Emacs. Is there anything Emacs can't do? I wouldn't be suprised to
>hear of a Python GUI builder for wxWindows, Qt and Tk, all written in
>Emacs :)

If you're going to include emacs, you should include vim, which has
optional support for Python as its scripting language.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug 17 08:02:33 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 12:02:33 GMT
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <3b7c6904$1_4@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nq1up.qf2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

17 Aug 2001 01:44:54 +0100, Doug Fort <doug.fort at verizon.net> pisze:

> By using the parentheses you are converting the output of the
> function to a tuple.

No, mere parentheses don't create a tuple, except the empty tuple
which looks like this: ().

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 10 10:59:29 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 07:59:29 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <9l0ssh$nf$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B72DCBA.C99465BC at labs.agilent.com>,
David Smith  <drs at labs.agilent.com> wrote:
>
>It appears that the preferred way to make a copy constructor is to
>define the __copy__ method.  In the examples I have seen, __copy__ then
>creates a new object in the usual way, which invokes __init__.  In a
>class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
>bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
>redefine __init__'s parameter list (to permit passing only one parameter
>of the same class), because it would screw up IDLE's automatic parameter
>list prompting.

I don't understand that last sentence.  How does permitting only one
argument screw up IDLE?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From bh at intevation.de  Wed Aug 22 15:39:31 2001
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 21:39:31 +0200
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
References: <mailman.998495793.22898.python-list@python.org> <3B84048B.A9355D0E@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6qitfflw98.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> writes:

> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> > #! /usr/bin/python
> >
> > import os
> > import string
> >
> > print os.path.dirname(string.split(`os`, "'")[3])
> > ---
> >
> > I tested it under 1.5.2. Does it also work under 2.x?
> 
> It seems to (though I used `os`.split() instead of importing
> string)--I'm using 2.0
> 
> However, I would be worried about this being somewhat fragile, as it's
> depending on the specific format of a module's repr()--it seems to be
> constant across versions, but I'd hate to presume that it will stay so.

Well, why not simply

print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)


-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 16:58:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <mailman.995647175.15752.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20010803215848.16469e@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <mailman.995647175.15752.python-list at python.org>, 
danb at champonline.com (Dan Bergan) wrote:

> I'm a newbie to python (and I love it!), but I've also worked a lot in 
> C and
> Visual Basic.  I've been coding a lot of VB lately, and I've really 
> gotten
> to like the fact that the IDE will automatically correct the case of the
> variables.  I have found that it actually speeds up my development time 
> a
> bit.  Here is how I use it:
> 
> (Declare the variable in mixed-case)
> Dim myVariable as Integer
> 
> (then I purposely type in the wrong case when I use 'myVariable')
> myvaraible = 1  '<==TYPO!
> 
> If the IDE does not fix my case, I know I have made a typo.  The 
> compiler
> would have caught this eventually (I use VB's 'option explicit' to 
> force me
> to declare my variables), but it makes for faster programming to fix it
> immediately.  Not a huge time saver, but I like it.  On the other hand, 
> I
> suppose I could just learn to type!  :-)

I do that too, but it only works in VB because you have declared the 
variable. I think that introducing such things to Python is to change the 
language so much that it would no longer be Python.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 22 15:21:41 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:21:41 -0700
Subject: Python Library Question
References: <3B80B181.1E8D44A4@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <3B840645.6E2E3375@ccvcorp.com>

Kurt Jansen wrote:

> I am new to Python, and am trying to implement a Web site using Python
> for my CGI scripts.  I am having trouble using any of the functions in
> the Python Library on my Web hosting provider's system.  For instance,
> if I try to use the math functions, I get the following errors:
> west38:~$ python
> Python 1.4 (Dec 18 1996) [GCC 2.7.2.1]
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> import math
> >>> x=2
> >>> y=exp(x)
> Traceback (innermost last):
> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: exp
> >>>
>
> Am I doing something wrong, or is the Python Library not loaded on my
> hosting provider's system?
> Kurt Jansen

When you are using functions (or other attributes) from an imported
module, you have to prepend the module name--in effect, you're telling the
interpreter *where* to find that function.  So try:

>>> import math
>>> x = 2
>>> y = math.exp(2)
>>> y
7.3890560989306504


Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 24 13:21:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:21:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: User preference file in Win32
In-Reply-To: <9m5e1i$1khl$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241320070.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sorry, this is not 100% Pythonic question, but as I'm in process to write a
> Unix/Win32 app.
> I need to know where it's usual to store user preference (not in a registry
> please) files for an app for Win32 applications (98,ME,NT,2000) as in Unix,
> we may use something like "~/.myapp.conf"
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --Gillou

You have to create a private directory under 'Local Settings' under the users
profile directory.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From paul at boddie.net  Wed Aug 15 11:30:13 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 08:30:13 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997852703.12051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108150730.4ab22d6e@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997852703.12051.python-list at python.org>...
> [Paul Boddie]
> > I can understand Arthur's confusion, though. If you look at the
> > original posting concerning the patch, it does seem as if VPython was
> > a strong motivation:
> 
> You think this is the first time the subject has been raised?  Relentless
> confusion isn't so easy to explain.

I'm aware that this is by no means the first time the subject has been
raised, but it is the first time that anyone has attempted seriously
to change the semantics of division in future Python releases. And
VPython was mentioned prominently in an announcement which signalled
intent that near-future releases would be affected. Personally, I was
surprised by the subject recurring in such a way, given that the
division situation has been acknowledged but left intentionally
unaddressed for years.

Those closer to the decision-making processes at the heart of Python
development might be well aware of the real motivations, but many of
us either aren't that privileged, or don't spend all our time
following the many different lists. When an announcement finally comes
out, you're going to see a reaction from a relatively uninformed
audience - I daren't think what kind of reaction is still pending from
people who don't even read the mainstream Python lists so frequently
and who will just be "dropping by" in a few months to catch up on
Python's status when they finally get to hear about this.

> I acknowledged no more than two days ago that Alice was the first project to
> "make a big stink" out of division semantics.  That was never in dispute,
> but it's old news now and no longer of interest to the future of PEP 238.

Of course it isn't interesting if you consider future plans which
leave the status of PEP 238 in no doubt. But I don't think that such
plans form the basis of this discussion. You acknowledge this below,
but there are other issues too.

[...]

> > Indeed, the motivations are more interesting to some people than the
> > actual changes themselves, because they are part of a decision-making
> > process which is interesting and instructive to observe.
> 
> Even if you're an historian (and so have an *excuse* to demand that the
> world sate your idle curiosity <wink>), you'll learn much more about that by
> taking an active role in a current discussion than by excavating Usenet for
> the bones of old ones.  Even better, write a PEP and get a first-hand view
> of what life is like from the other side.

Having followed and participated in a number of recent discussions on
this subject, I don't agree. With some contributors claiming
familiarity with the PEP whilst admitting virtual ignorance of
VPython, I don't wonder that certain other contributors (especially
those who are familiar with VPython) are baffled by recent events. I
think that several contributors might be wondering how one set of
"interested parties" *seem* to be able to influence the development of
the language in a direction which threatens them (along with their
investment) as another set of "interested parties".

Deep down, there are issues which lie dormant for now which are
arguably not being addressed, or were avoided in the recent debates.
Such issues, such as commercial influences on Python's development
haven't been seen as particularly controversial in the past - the
introduction of Unicode came about without much complaint (I didn't
even know the commercial aspect of this until recently) - but
contributors who have clearly focused their business on Python have
expressed dissatisfaction with recent events. They might be wondering
where their views fit in on the development team's scale of
importance, or whether there is such a scale of importance, or even
whether it was right to base any kind of business on Python at all.

It appears to me that the issues raised in this discussion are highly
relevant to many open source software development communities. Indeed,
given various prominent failures to "commercialise open source", I
would say that they are very pertinent indeed.

There's no way I'd be mad or desperate enough to write a PEP, though.
Perhaps I'm not doing anything "cutting edge" enough to demand lots of
new language features, but I'd rather concentrate on packages and
applications.

Paul


From chris at eidhof.com  Sat Aug 11 14:03:39 2001
From: chris at eidhof.com (Chris Eidhof)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:03:39 +0200
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
Message-ID: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>

Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under win98, the
webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but it didn't work.
Who can help me?
Please reply by email.

Thanks in advance,
Chris Eidhof




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 21 18:24:48 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:24:48 -0400
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
References: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net> <3b766809.2155375@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <g9Bg7.98704$rV6.4794151@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b766809.2155375 at news.t-online.de...
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:03:39 +0200, "Chris Eidhof" <chris at eidhof.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under win98,
the
> >webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but it didn't
work.
>
> A *simple* webserver in python :
>
> ---- snip begin ----
> from SimpleHTTPServer import *
> test()
> ---- snip end ----
>
> Its in your \python21\lib, hehe.
>
> On the other hand: Apache works fine with python (at least on Windows
> 2000). Can you explain what didn't work ? If you've tried mod_python
> (from www.modpython.org) you cannot easily bind "standard CGI" scripts
> because mod_python has a different syntax (you're dealing
> with apache requests etc.)

You might also like to know that I've had very good results with Xitami on
Win98. It's pretty much plug and play, and drives Python CGI quite
beautifully (as long as you can accept the per-script interpreter startup).
It also handles Python long-running web processes well (Robin Dunn was
involved in Xitami's origins), and drives Webware well, though not as well
as it will when I get round to writing a purpose-built adapter.

Give it a try: http://www.xitami.com

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 25 11:42:14 2001
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 15:42:14 GMT
Subject: old contrib repository (was Re: Real.py)
References: <mailman.998689777.16047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010825114214.261$T9_-_@newsreader.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
> I expect it's the "editorial" process that's the real pain here:  digging
> thru 400 files and figuring out which are worth preserving.  I have a

400! gulp! :-)

> copy of the archive on my home box, and it's 25 MB.  The size isn't as
> bad as it sounds, since e.g. 7 MB of that is old versions of Interscript
> and 2.5 MB is old versions of SWIG, but there are still 100s of files to
> plow thru.

I can do some initial "editing", only for the big ones to reduce the
bulk, looking if they have an actual site (in parnassus, for instance).
Of course, I can't evaluate the quality of the contribution, nor if
it run or not in python version X.X.X
My "stay or go" call will be based on: is it large and have another
site?

-Hernan

-- 
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
                    Usenet Newsgroup Service


From rcspython at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 16:17:26 2001
From: rcspython at yahoo.com (rcspython at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:17:26 -0000
Subject: COM Events in multithreaded app trouble.
Message-ID: <9kpicm+apj1@eGroups.com>

Briefly,
I have a working demo using an ActiveX control including events.
Problem comes in when I try to make this demo multithreaded.
I essentially need 10 COM object instances (each passed to a 
different thread) to operate independently. They all need to receive 
COM events too. Can they all share one Event handler (as in the main 
thread?) or must I create a unique one for each COM object (messy).

Incidently, when the COM Events are returned to the handler they 
include the reference number (1-10) for each object. I was planning 
on setting events to indicate message arrival in the other threads. 
You can see I should only need one handler.

I have only 2 threads running in this test (the main and one COM 
object wrapper) and I am not seeing and Events! The object thread is 
there and logging and the main thread with 
pythoncom.PumpWaitingMessages()is running along.

Am I suffering from a GCE (Gross conceptual error) or making a simple 
mistake?

Any help would be welcome as I am quite stuck at the moment.

Best regards,
Ron




From cbarber at curl.com  Wed Aug  1 15:32:01 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 15:32:01 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <psoy9p34lvy.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
> news:pso66c9rpo8.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
> > Well, I actually used Python on a number of projects a couple of years ago
> and
> > did spend more time than I would have liked writing tests to detect type
> > consistency.
> 
> Probably no more time than I spend cursing [expletive deleted]'s who
> write type-tests. ... 
> "BEHAVES-LIKE-A" (i.e. IS_ADAPTABLE_TO_PROTOCOL) is what, at most,
> one SHOULD be testing (if anything).

Sure, but it is often much easier to document that var x must be a foo than it
is to say that it must provide some arbitrary set of attributes.  This after
all is one of the point of types: to create a shorthand for sets of properties
that you want to go together.

- Christopher


From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Tue Aug 28 13:07:14 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:07:14 -0700
Subject: Compiling to include Tkinter/IDLE: HOWTO?
References: <cvtkotoh8g1l1bvkeef27e9c1nmn32dfv5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3qjnotol0h8pdi83nnil7nef4a50djdnut@4ax.com>

Postscript:

I figured this out.  Mandrake install CDs didn't bother to install
all the X11R6 include files by default, so Xlib.h which simply 
absent from my system.  I used the RPM manager to 
locate the missing stuff, did a fresh untar of Python2.2,
and reran everything from the beginning.  Also grabbed the
idle stuff out of Tools and copied it to /site-packages.  
All is well.

Kirby


Kirby Urner <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> wrote:

>
>I downloaded Python 2.2a2 and did a ./configure ./make in Linux 
>(Mandrake 8.0 distro).  Errors had to do with not finding X11/X11.h
>and therefore not installing _tkinter.  In the /usr/local/lib/python2.2 
>directory, I also don't find IDLE (a Tk app).  I'm able to use the
>resulting Python in terminal shell mode no prob.
>
>Question:  what do I need to do to on my platform to compile a 
>new Python with Tkinter usable, and IDLE as well?  When I install
>the RPM from the distro, I get Python 2.0 with working IDLE, and
>I'd like to have a similar setup for Python 2.2.
>
>Kirby
>Please cc: urnerk at qwest.net
>



From spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk  Sat Aug  4 12:12:39 2001
From: spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:12:39 +0200
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com> <el7ck9.4ek.ln@127.0.0.1> <slrn9mk03n.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com> <87puadbz5v.fsf@mally.pyrite.org>
Message-ID: <nt6hk9.i0g.ln@127.0.0.1>

Rob Tillotson <rob-news at pyrite.org> wrote:
 : carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink) writes:
 :> Not directly, but the preinstall and postinstall scripts in the
 :> archives are (I've read) Python scripts.

 : While I would love to confirm this, I'm sad to report that it is not
 : true.  In fact, nearly all of the scripts found in Debian packages are
 : shell scripts, with a few exceptions in that other 'P' language.

 : Debian policy allows the "scripts" to be anything executable, but to
 : my knowledge nobody has done control scripts for their packages in
 
and if he did, the package should Depend or Pre-Depend on python

anyway, as long as debian-provided python is in the path before
your locally installed one, you are safe.
 

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik  http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__         garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk       |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 14 00:31:44 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:31:44 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cpsneve4wa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108140829460.4760-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>jasbahr at onebox.com (Jason Asbahr) writes:
>
>> I agree with the general opinion here that having virtual
>> as default feels like the more 'Pythonic' solution.
>
>There must be a misunderstanding.  Alex used C++ virtual functions as
>an example where C++ went wrong, as an argument for why dynamicism
>should be the default.  In Python, all functions are virtual: you can
>always override them in a subclass, and I am not going to change this!
>
>All I want is to disable changes to *existing* classes by default.
>You can write your own metaclass that changes the default, or you can
>inherit from a dynamic base class -- thus, with very little effort,
>you can make all your classes dynamic, if you want to.

But not at run-time? Can I make

cls.__dynamic__ = 1

at runtime and then, for example, patch the classes of running system? Or
do I need to stop the system, make __dynamic__ changes and restart it
again?

>If it turns out that this is not sufficient for a wide range of
>applications, I'll reconsider the default; but I'd rather not, because
>there is a severe run-time penalty for the generally unneeded
>dynamicism.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/




From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 13:06:44 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:06:44 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9oq892.96i.grante@isis.visi.com>

In article <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer Deyke wrote:
>"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>news:slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
>> In article <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471 at news1.denver1.co.home.com>, Rainer
>Deyke wrote:
>> > "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>> > news:slrn9ops86.ks3.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
>> >> After reading a handful of follow-ups, I'm still curious what
>> >> you mean when you say that's unreliable.
>> >
>> >>>> def foo(a, b): return '%.2f' % (float(a)/b)
>> > ...
>
>>
>> Thanks, but that wasn't helpful.  Am I to assume that you're
>> not happy with one of the results?  Which one?  Why do you
>> think it's wrong?
>
>> >>>> foo(1, 200)
>> > '0.01'
>
>Standard rounding: 0.01
>Accountant rounding: 0.00
>
>In this case the result resembles what you get with standard rounding, but
>this is not always the case.  See below.
>
>> >>>> foo(3, 200)
>> > '0.01'

>Standard rounding: 0.02
>Accountant rounding: 0.02
>
>This looks like a "just plain wrong" result to me.  If you don't care about
>the least significant digit, this might be tolerable for you.
>
>> >>>> foo(5, 200)
>> > '0.03'
>
>Standard rounding: 0.03
>Accountant rounding: 0.02
>
>Again, the result resembles what you get with standard rounding.  This case
>doesn't really demonstrate anything new.
>
>> >>>> foo(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000l, 2)
>> > '5000000000000000200000000000000000000000.00'
>                     ^
>Not just incorrect, but the incorrect digit is right in the middle of the
>number, not in the least significant place.

In all cases you show above, the output from the "%" operator appears
correct to me. AFAICT, the FP results are all correct also.

What you are calling "unreliable" seems to be standard IEEE FP behavior.

The OP stated that float(a)/b was fine, and he wanted a way to format the FP
result of that expression.  The OP was told he could use "%.2f" to format
his results.  That's the simplest way to do what he asked, and AFAICT it
produces correct results.

You seem to be telling the OP that he's wrong, float(a)/b isn't good enough,
and he shouldn't be using floating point?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  for ARTIFICIAL
                                  at               FLAVORING!!
                               visi.com            


From joonas at olen.to  Fri Aug 31 09:01:37 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:01:37 +0300
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <3B8F8AB0.877D3E20@olen.to>

Fred Pacquier wrote:
> 
> Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I believe I did my homework
> (docs, FATS, Google etc.) and the answer still eludes me :
> 
> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?

If that number has fixed number of characters you can use slicing

>>> stringvalue = str(246814345)
>>> stringvalue[0:3]+","+stringvalue[3:6]+","+stringvalue[6:9]
'246,814,345'
>>>


From nospam at ihatespam.com  Mon Aug  6 03:04:06 2001
From: nospam at ihatespam.com (CCLittle)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 03:04:06 -0400
Subject: interpreter use... help?
References: <BZnb7.1612$96.1236@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> <mailman.997070529.32299.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <H9dc7.1638$96.1470@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

Hot Dog that work! Thanks.

cc

"Paul Sidorsky" <paulsid at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997070529.32299.python-list at python.org...
> CCLittle wrote:
>
> > Here is what I do:
> >
> > >>> try:
> >            action1()
> >            except TypeError:
> >
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> > >>>
> >
> > The except part is highlighted.
> > I just can't make the except go one indentation level lower even by
pressing
> > the backspace!
> > Short of putting everything inside a module and importing, is there a
way
> > around this?
>
> This works for me in IDLE under WinME:
>
> > Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
> > >>> exc = 0
> > >>> try:
> >         item = lst[1]
> > except:
> >         exc = 1
> >
> >
> > >>> exc
> > 1
>
> The only formatting I had to do was to press backspace once on the except
line
> which put the cursor in the first column.
>
> Notice that the try and except don't line up visually.  I guess the trick
is to
> mentally snip out the ">>><space>" part.
>
> I tried in the plain command line interpreter, too.  There you have to do
the
> tabbing yourself, but you get the "..." prompt so the code does line up.
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
> paulsid at home.com                      http://members.home.net/paulsid/
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 18:08:25 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:08:25 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org> <9k9svq$os4$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <IGcc7.55219$WD1.3269364@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <9ks9mf$p28$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5Jic7.22180$5j7.2016374@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Ralph Corderoy" <ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9ks9mf$p28$1 at inputplus.demon.co.uk...
> Hi,
>
> > > How about my `cl' suggestion?
> >
> > I still like Michael ... sorry, "mycl".
> >
> > Easy to pronounce, easy to understand, and hopefully not too
> > contentious for anyone to bear.
>
> Err, wrong on that last part :-)  What's the precedence for `my' in
> Python?  Do you use `myself'  ;-)
>
Well, I suppose there's one in every newsgroup ... ;-)

"Myself" would mean "self of me", so I'm quite happy using "self" as a
synonym for "me". "Mycl", similarly roughly translated, means "class of me",
and I thought it might (mostly on grounds of readability and
pronouncability) find acceptance.

I guess I should stop being so optimistic.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 05:19:23 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:19:23 +0200
Subject: python internet development platforms for less
References: <3b81a215$1@news2.thevalkyrie.com>
Message-ID: <6241597.NjorxKYX51@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Allen Ahoffman <ahoffman at linux.announce.com> schrub:

> 
> 
> Announce Communications Inc
> POB 2308
> Hyattsville, MD 20784
> 301-731-5786
> kelly at announce.com
> 
> 
> Please review the below offerings, and if it meets your needs for a
> web development, test bed, production server, or just play box, let us
> know.
> 
> If neither of these works for you, talk with us we aim to please.
> 
> Rspecial
> Rspecial2

Oh, interesting offerings :-)

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Wed Aug 29 14:39:51 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:39:51 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
In-Reply-To: <9miud701gsp@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291228560.26504-100000@bms>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
<...>
> I see other posters have mentioned and are debating "OS modules".
> It's again just a question of runtime support -- no more, no
> less: if an OS had runtime support for VB, or for Python, you
> could use VB, or Python, to write modules for that OS, period.
> There's no "conceptual" block -- just that, in practice, I know
> of no such OS (for either language).

You do now...

Kernel Support for miscellaneous (your favourite) Binary Formats v1.1
=====================================================================

This Kernel feature allows you to invoke almost (for restrictions see
below) every program by simply typing its name in the shell. This
includes for example compiled Java(TM), Python or Emacs programs.

To achieve this you must tell binfmt_misc which interpreter has to be
invoked with which binary. Binfmt_misc recognises the binary-type by
matching some bytes at the beginning of the file with a magic byte
sequence (masking out specified bits) you have supplied. Binfmt_misc
can also recognise a filename extension aka '.com' or '.exe'.
<...snip...>
There are some restrictions:
 - the whole register string may not exceed 255 characters
 - the magic must reside in the first 128 bytes of the file, i.e.
   offset+size(magic) has to be less than 128
 - the interpreter string may not exceed 127 characters
<...snip...>
- enable support for Windows executables using wine:
  echo ':DOSWin:M::MZ::/usr/local/bin/wine:' > register
<...snip...>
There is a web page about binfmt_misc at
http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~rguenth/linux/binfmt_misc.html
<...snip...>


- Bruce




From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug  6 00:59:53 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 21:59:53 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <mailman.996866288.23363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kl889$7e3$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.996866288.23363.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>Combine it with some backward-compatibility hacks, and you can do
>some, umm, "interesting" things with this:
>
>>>> def stringin(s, stuple):
>...     try:
>...         raise s
>...     except stuple:
>...         return 1
>...     else:
>...         return 0
>...
>>>> stringin('b', ('a', ('c', 'b'), 'd'))
>1
>>>> stringin('b', ('a', ('c', 'e'), 'd'))
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "<stdin>", line 3, in stringin
>b

Have I told you lately that you are a sick and twisted individual?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug 20 14:16:03 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:16:03 GMT
Subject: Does Python need C++ to compile ?
References: <mailman.998324550.9378.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Dtcg7.120702$EP6.32738944@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"mallum" <breakfast at 10.am> wrote in message
news:mailman.998324550.9378.python-list at python.org...
> Aloha all;
>
> During a ./configure of the Python source, I noticed it check for
the
> presence of a c++ compilier ? I thought Python was strait c ?

Yes, it is.





From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 23 04:09:45 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:09:45 +0200
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998526813.12118.python-list@python.org> <7xlmkbfr8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2759044.iTtaCxCBeP@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> schrub:

>> In tests people have done by replacing Python's reference counting by
>> Boehm's collector (reported to this newsgroup) there have been marked
>> speed advantages to reference counting in most cases. This is
>> empirical evidence that reference counting works well *for Python* in
>> most cases.
> 
> I guess that might be the case, at least with the current body of
> Python programs.  I'm thinking of Python's implementation in terms of
> whether it's suitable for large, long-running programs, and it's
> not clear whether anyone really writes those in Python.

Zope comes in my mind...

> The combination of RC and GC (or cycle breaking) that's been described
> here sounds like a pretty good approach.  It wasn't described in the
> Python docs that I read, which described a pure RC system, but that's
> ok :).

Maybe your docs describe Python 1.5 (which is still the default python 
for debian, e. G.), but today, python 2.1.1 is stable and 2.2.X is 
cutting edge :-)

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From jasbahr at onebox.com  Mon Aug 13 19:37:03 2001
From: jasbahr at onebox.com (Jason Asbahr)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 16:37:03 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <712af333.0108131537.117f847@posting.google.com>

Guido,

I agree with the general opinion here that having virtual
as default feels like the more 'Pythonic' solution.  

Also class assignment is a very useful feature.  Glyph 
mentioned this in one of his posts, reassigning instances 
and modifying class attributes at runtime is a key feature 
of certain flexible systems (for example, massively multiplayer 
virtual worlds  :-)  (1)  For all the reasons mentioned, adding 
attributes dynamically, reflection, reloading, deploying, and
porting, the flexibility of Python is an enormous benefit.  

Jason Asbahr

1. That's one of the key applications for Twisted, btw.


From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 07:33:52 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:33:52 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
Message-ID: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I believe I did my homework 
(docs, FATS, Google etc.) and the answer still eludes me :

how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?

TIA,
fp

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From amuys at shortech.com.au  Thu Aug 23 22:00:05 2001
From: amuys at shortech.com.au (Andrae Muys)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 19:00:05 -0700
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu>
Message-ID: <7934d084.0108231800.66e20ec2@posting.google.com>

Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu> wrote in message news:<3B7B2CE4.E33809F7 at bcm.tmc.edu>...
> I have a GUI to submit a background job and want the GUI to exit after
> the job is submitted to leave the actually big job run for a few days to
> compleletion. Could anyone give me a hint how to do this? right now the
> GUI stays but blocked by the background job.
> Thanks.
> 

My last job was writing a program identical to this.  Put simply, you
are barking up the wrong tree, your GUI should not be tied to the
compuational process at all.

The simplest approach is to write a command-line application that
reads a parameter file and writes a result file.  Preferably this
application would default to stdin/stdout in the traditional unix
pattern.

Then have your GUI spawn the command-line program as an independent
process.

In the end we ended up with a slightly more complex architecture that
had the GUI use a CORBA nameservice to find persistant-daemons running
on compute-servers, that fork/exec'd the command-line simulations in
response to "simulate requests", tracked their progess, and reported
on their status.

I left for my current employer before we completed the entire system,
but after we got the basic design above working.

Of course we also left in the option of spawning the process locally
from the GUI, or running it directly from a script/CLI.

This sort of flexibility (from script/CLI to CORBA based load-balanced
compute-server farm) is immediately available if remember to keep your
simulation seperate from your interface.

HTH, GL.

Andrae Muys


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Aug  4 11:41:39 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Aug 2001 18:41:39 +0300
Subject: Plea for help with Large File Support
References: <mailman.996849786.26685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kupuabj0i4.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.996849786.26685.python-list at python.org>, Chris
Withers <chrisw at nipltd.com> writes:

| Hi, The system I'm working on is Debian 2.2 (potato) with a ReiserFS
| 3.5 partition on it. I'm assured that on this setup, I should be
| able to have files of up to 4GB in size, currently I get barfage at
| exactly 2GB :-(

ext2fs can do large files just fine too. if you are on a 32-bit platform,
you need a kernel and c library that have support support the
large file kludge (on 64-bit platforms things work natively).

i don't think it works on 32-bit potato out of the box. you need a 2.4
kernel (there are also 3rd party patches for 2.2 i think).
the potato libc is probably not up to the task either.

if you are feeling adventurous, you may try upgrading to woody
(aka testing).

| What do I need to do to get Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1 compiled in
| such a way that I read and write to files bigger than 2GB?

upgrade your hardware or operating system :).

  -- erno



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 23 09:18:37 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:18:37 -0500
Subject: newbie question
References: <48256545.0108221258.5882c94f@posting.google.com> <FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <toa0q37evrgsb6@corp.supernews.com>

George
If you expect serious replies, then start by making serious 'allegation' -
two points:
1.  Unlike what you said of the lack of typing in Python - Python is
strongly by dynamically typed.  Java is strongly but statically typed.
> Both java/JSP and python require knowledge of
> html/javascript/java/jsp/xml/web design.
2.  What?  of course Python's web applications require knowledge of HTML
(duhhhh......), and so does VB.net and so does anything at all that requires
a browser to be used.  But Python requires knowledge of javascript/java/jsp?
How is that so?  At least have your commentary objective before stating such
things.  I have been writing web applications in Python using ASP, and now
as CGI applications, and I have never required the use of
javascript/jsp/java.  Actually I make a point of it to never validate even
one field by resorting to javascript.

You know, at times I get tired and sick of both Microsoft and Sun for their
bombastic claims and unwarranted claims.  Neither of them own the web, and
neither of them can claim to have the ultimate solutions to anything.
Meanwhile I am sticking to Python, where at least one gets a **Decent**
answer to questions without producing a credit card to pay for stupidly
answered questions.
Maan
--  A Python Programmer

"George Garnett" <g.r.garnett at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:FbXg7.20866$Ki1.1665510 at bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> I'm not a python programmer, but I have evaluated the language relative to
> java (yes, I'm a java programmer, and you can assume my opinion on python
is
> suspect). No doubt I'm about to be beat up by all your phyton programmers
> for this, but I'm a glutton for punishment. Please, no four letter words
or
> verbal attacks about my mother.  Here goes:
>
> There is a pile of existing (legacy) visual basic programs out there that
> need to be enhanced and debugged even if Microsoft VB is rapidly moving
> towards Microsoft's  '.net' (dot NET) technology to replace it. There are
> even new projects using VB since the replacement for it will take some
time
> to develop and saturate the market. There should therefore be enough time
in
> the transition to find enough work in VB until Microsoft replaces their VB
> with '.net'  (dot net) technology. Rumor has it that it will be somewhat
> similar look and feel development environment to VB, but unlike VB, its
for
> creating web based applications, and not stand alone applications as is
VB.
> Its in beta test now and will not be a viable (mature bug free) product
for
> another 2 years or so. The competitor to .net is java and JSP. For
immediate
> work, I suggest you create a small project (or two, or three) using VB to
> show the companies that you stand out in the crowd in that you can
implement
> the language and not just read books on it and worked out a few examples.
> Don't worry about the market too much. Within a year or so companies will
be
> begging for programmers again. You should prepare for that while you have
> some free time between jobs by studying. Still worried? Read 'How to stop
> worrying and start living' by Dale Carnegie.
>
> Python has been re-written into jpython in which the language closely
> parallels the java language. The main difference is java enforces strong
> type casting (which is good), where jpython does not (its a gimmick to not
> scare off non professional programmers who don't want to take the time to
> verify every line of code is type casted correctly (this is the part where
> I'll get beat up on) ). JPython is billed as a browser side scripting
> language that complements java. This I believe is true. However, java's
JSP
> technology came out and I believe jpython's days are numbered (then again,
> considering how quickly technology changes, everything's day's are
> numbered!). JPython is Python's attempt to hold onto all its python
> developers and will provide them with a transition path to java (this is
the
> part where I'll get beat up on too) as an alternative to JSP and
javascript.
> If you don't already know python, I suggest you jump directly into
> Microsoft's '.net' technology, or java/JSP and skip jpython. The market
will
> be split between these two powerhouses for the next 5 years or so. Either
> way, an immediate job isn't likely in these until you come up to speed
> (about a year or two), or until the economy picks up (in about 12 months).
>
> Both java/JSP and python require knowledge of
> html/javascript/java/jsp/xml/web design. Unlike VB, its not one
development
> platform but a combination of technologies. The promise of .net is to be
one
> development platform. The downside is proprietary design and not open
> source. Companies want to keep away from being under the thumb of one
vendor
> (such as microsoft). By the way, JSP may develop a good JSP tag library
> where some vendor in the future will develop a single development platform
> and beat microsoft at its own game. Either way (microsoft or java), you'll
> have a lot of reading to do.
>
> If you want to go the java route, here are few books I'll recommend (see
> www.bookpool.com for 40% off). I suggest you order one at a time to see if
> its to your liking. And/or go to the bookstore and browse through them.
Note
> java is an object oriented concept and that too will take some time to
> appreciate. Good Luck!
> Core Java Volume 1-fundamentals
>
> Core Java Volume 2-Advanced features
>
> Thinking in Java     eckel
>
> JavaScript the Definitive Guide
>
> HTML & XHTML the Definitive Guide
>
> Java Servlet Programming     o'reilly
>
> Core JSP              hougland/tavistock
>
> Advanced Java Server Pages      geary
>
> Database Programming with JDBC    o'reilly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "atonal" <watchtheclosingdoors at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:48256545.0108221258.5882c94f at posting.google.com...
> > i have beginning-to-intermediate level vb6/vba programming skills and
> > would like to find employment before long in a technical capacity.
> >
> > something tells me that vb is not my ticket, and i am intrigued by
> > python.
> >
> > for now i am somewhat wedded to ms windows and ms office, but i gather
> > that python can be used in many ways in place of vba, and that in
> > general it would offer more career opportunities.
> >
> > anyone agree or disagree?  advice is welcome, and thanks in advance.
>
>




From ivdkleyn at xs4all.nl  Sat Aug 25 14:32:54 2001
From: ivdkleyn at xs4all.nl (Iwan van der Kleyn)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:32:54 +0200
Subject: Getting modpython to work on Mandrake 8?
Message-ID: <9m8qvm$5o7$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Has anyone been able to get modpython to work on Mandrake 8? I've
installed it succesfully under previous versions of Mandrake, but no
luck with the latest.

I've compiled and installed Python v2.1 without thread support and
succesfully compiled modpython 2.7.6 and installed it into Apache as a DSO.

Then I had to configure commonhttpd.conf to include the <Directory> tag.
  No succes here, because no matter what, apache/modpython failed to
detect the PythonHandler keyword. Changing the <Directory> into the
<Location> tag did work. Apache started wihout a problem, the Python
interpreter was loaded, but reported an errormessage because it coudln't
find the handler (python program whcih is started by modpython) in its
path.

So after trying for a day or so, I'm ready to give up and go back to
Tomcat :-)

If anyone did get modpython to work on Mandrake 8, I would be very
gratefull if he or she would share this information with me...

Regards,

Iwan





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 10:12:01 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:12:01 +0100 
Subject: newbie
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BF54@intrepid>

> From:	Theasolon [SMTP:inflicted at rocketmail.com]
> I'm newbie to this all, and done some research.
> I want to start to learn programming, and I believe Python is 
> a good language to start. I have absolutely no experience
> in programming, so does anyone here have any tips
> for newbies? I've found several tutorials etc, but if anyone
> has any tips at all, please mail me. Maybe a good website
> to start etc. 
 
If you haven't programmed before, check out Alan Gauld's 'Learning to
Program' at <http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/>, or 'How to think like a
Computer Scientist', at
<http://www.andamooka.org/reader.pl?section=thinkpython>. These are aimed at
teaching programming using Python to complete beginners.

If you have programmed before, try 'Dive into Python at
<http://diveintopython.org/> or the Python Tutorial at
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>.

Links to *loads* of tutorials can be found at
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Docu
mentation_and_Tutorials/>.

And don't forget the Python tutor mailing list, at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>. Well worth joining if you
are learning Python!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From whats_really_hot at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  7 15:26:35 2001
From: whats_really_hot at hotmail.com (whats_really_hot)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:26:35 +0300
Subject: questions.part #2
Message-ID: <9kpj1s$pp1$1@usenet.otenet.gr>

This is the second post of mine. First, I would like to thank all u that
responded to first post. Here I repeat some of the questions of my first
post, because they were not properly answered or cause I didn't get straight
answers.
 In the first post u answered me that in Unix based platforms "cat" command
starts the creation of a module. OK, now I go on with some more queries.

1. When we type "dir()" in the interactive command line prompt get among all
the others the module "__name__" which really tell us the name of the module
that we are . But now we are in the interactive command line prompt, which
is a module with the name "__main__". Now, my question is, why isn't
__name__ = __main__? (Why isn't __name__ substituted by __main__?

Sorry for repeating this question but I didn't really get a clear answer.

2. What is the difference between "!=" and "<>" (which really mean
"different")?

3. Are the built-in tools (such as "len", "sort" etc) maintained in a folder
into the Python directory, so as I can access and edit them?

4.   What is the difference between "%d" and "%i" (which really point
integer values)?

5. What does it mean that Python is a "high-level language" and other
languages, such as C, are low-level?



Sorry for the simplicity of some of the above questions, but are crucial for
me for the full understanding of Python.

Thanks again for ur attention and immediate responds.

Mail me: whats_really_hot at hotmail.com





From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Mon Aug 27 09:00:21 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:00:21 GMT
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
In-Reply-To: <3B8A205A.E5076D1F@student.gu.edu.au>
References: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>        
 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net> 
 <15241.575.772954.842109@beluga.mojam.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261017270.6830-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
 <3B8A205A.E5076D1F@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270752200.1567-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>


On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Joal Heagney wrote:

> Try this on a clean build directory
> 
> PYTHON=/usr/local/bin/python ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
> Then the rest of it.

Thanks!!  I had to do the tar again (probably what you said at the top
:-), but after that it compiled against the correct python!  Thank you!


-- 
     This plan is so bad, it has to be mine.
               -- Joel Salda

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From asencio at mitre.org  Thu Aug 16 17:59:43 2001
From: asencio at mitre.org (Angel Asencio)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:59:43 -0400
Subject: Access pickles remotely?
Message-ID: <3B7C424F.8A1D981C@mitre.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010816/0d6e96f9/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: asencio.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 317 bytes
Desc: Card for Angel Asencio
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010816/0d6e96f9/attachment.vcf>

From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 15 12:15:45 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:15:45 GMT
Subject: Proposal: comp.lang.python.division ? [was: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians]
References: <mailman.997890924.5805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9nl84l.1ev.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <mailman.997890924.5805.python-list at python.org>, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> 
> 
> On 15 Aug 2001, Alex wrote:
> 
>> I would go for this if it blocked any mention of division semantics,
>> too. 
> 
> Maybe it's time to split the newsgroup : 
> 	comp.lang.python.division, anyone ? 

I notice you didn't suggest that we divide the newsgroup...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Fold, fold,
                                  at               FOLD!! FOLDING many items!!
                               visi.com            


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug  8 13:57:54 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:57:54 +0200
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com> <87snf2mnpv.fsf@xeno.localhost>
Message-ID: <9kru8t$sol$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Bug...
You forgot the "y" in the vowels ;-)

"xauau" <xauau at yahoo.com.au> a ?crit dans le message news:
87snf2mnpv.fsf at xeno.localhost...
> Lee <lee.r2d2 at ntlworld.com> writes:
>
> > Hi there, I wonder if someone could possibly tell me what is wrong with
> > the following statement. I'm extremely embarrased to ask but here
> > goes...
> >
> > >>>  if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
> >     vowel='true'
> >
> > Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "<pyshell#46>", line 1, in ?
> >     if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
> > TypeError: bad operand type(s) for |
>
> The | operator doesn't expect characters as its operands. (Even if it
> did, I doubt think you'd get the results you expected, but to explain
> why is a long(er) story) ;-)
>
> If you really need a more detailed answer, ask away. If you just want
> to make it work, try this:
>
> if fname[1] in 'aeiou':
> vowel = 'true'
>
>
>
>




From objectway at divalsim.it  Wed Aug  8 05:53:53 2001
From: objectway at divalsim.it (Nicola Musatti)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:53:53 +0200
Subject: [Python-Help] data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <997178610.17738.39.camel@lewis> <mailman.997195514.28078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B710C31.B7FADB0D@divalsim.it>


Alex Martelli wrote:
[...]
> It's a little bit more work when you want to
> pre-specify some of the arguments to be passed to the callable you
> want (technically called 'currying', in honor of the great mathematician
> Haskell Curry [...] )

Whom, I guess, also unwittingly provided a name for a programming
language. Ahem, I realize it's somewhat OT, but could you explain the
relation/difference between currying and closures?

Thank you,
Nicola Musatti


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 01:07:16 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:07:16 GMT
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
References: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <8YEj7.189437$g_3.36890426@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Formalin
Have you checked for example the CGI documents on the Python web site where
one mentions how to config IIS?  Granted, that the document misses one
important point for you to run Python.  But when you try to go through the
steps in the document and then you ask, at that point I for one wil help you
out.  The point is for you to try first and then ask about what kind of
difficulty you are running into.
Maan

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mmvbl$kel$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> How to Config?
>
>




From GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com  Thu Aug 23 01:42:08 2001
From: GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com (GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:12:08 +0530
Subject: Facilities Management software
Message-ID: <E1B786DCFA6ED511A0390008C7289E4733C6E1@ICICIBACK3>

hello,

we are currently useing a sw 'Advanced Help Desk' (CA) which
is a sort of Object Ori. Framework for the inter-organization
helpdesk tasks. The IT req is currently automated. Though
FM will also be interesting to be added to it's tasks.

I am more involved in customisation of this OO framework sw 
and from what I have seen, has a fairly clean design.

this effort seems interesting, if only to learn python to me.
btw AHD uses, rdbms in backend, a java OR web-clnt to connect
to the AHD server to log calls update them etc.

/psg

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bart Bartels [mailto:Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 1:29 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Facilities Management software
> 
> 
> G'Day Kenneth
> 
> I think that starting simple might be the go.  If we get 
> something happening
> then the feed back will assist in guiding the development.
> 
> > > -    record job requests
> 
> Get info:
>     Who called
>     Contact details :- phone/email, department
>     What the problem is
>     Where the problem is :- building, room
> 
> > > -    track job requests
> 
> Allocate task: (this would be the facilities staff)
>     to trademan/technician
>     authorised/assigned by
>     priority
>     start date/time
>     finish by date/time
> 
> > >-    provide feedback to job requester
> 
> Email response back outlining when task allocated and to whom?
> 
> > > -    close job request
> 
> On completion by trade, record
>     Time taken hours/minutes
>     material cost $
>     email to originator that the task is complete
> 
> > > -    enter additional data on job
> 
> Allocate to budget
> record misc. info if any
> 
> > > -    trends and histories
> 
> Be able to generate reports in a freeform manner i.e. no 
> predefined reports
> 
> > This is exactly what we want, but we need to have the 
> details more specific,
> > so we could work on the process model.
> >
> > cheers, Kenneth
> 
> Is this what you wanted?
> 
> Bart
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


. 

-- 


"This e-mail message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally 
privileged information. It should not be used by anyone who is not the 
original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, 
please delete it immediately and notify the sender. The recipient acknowledges 
that ICICI or its subsidiaries and associated companies (including ICICI Bank),
as the case may be, are unable to exercise control or ensure or guarantee the 
integrity of/over the contents of the information contained in e-mail 
transmissions and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this 
message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the 
message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with 
due authority of ICICI or its subsidiaries and associated companies (including 
ICICI Bank), as applicable. Before opening any attachments please check them 
for viruses and defects." 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010823/fa03e7df/attachment.html>

From ron.l.johnson at home.com  Mon Aug  6 16:13:36 2001
From: ron.l.johnson at home.com (Ron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:13:36 GMT
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <87r8upo8bo.fsf@xeno.localhost>
Message-ID: <QTCb7.58756$oh1.22301720@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

Thanks to all for this idea.

xauau wrote:

> Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson at home.com> writes:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Say I have the strings:
>>   'foo   bar      snafu'
>>   'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'
>> 
>> Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the
>> duplicate spaces out so that the files look like:
>>   'foo bar snafu'
>>   'fiddle faddle pip pop'
>> 
>> I could iteratively apply string.replace, replacing '  ' with
>> ' ', but that doesn't seem the optimum course.
> 
> An easier way is to use split and join together:
> 
> 'split' will partition a string into a list items, separated by
> whatever character(s) you like. (Defaults to space).
> 
> s = 'foo  bar     snafu'
> s.split() -> ['foo', 'bar', 'snafu']
> 
> Now you can use 'join' to join these list items together into a new
> strng, with a single space (or anything else you want) between them:
> 
> ' '.join(['foo', 'bar', 'snafu']) -> 'foo bar snafu'
> 'XXX'.join(['foo', 'bar', 'snafu']) -> 'fooXXXbarXXXsnafu'
> 
> 
> So the following one-liner will do what you need:
> 
> ' '.join(s.split())



From danyelf at ics.uci.edu  Fri Aug  3 03:49:47 2001
From: danyelf at ics.uci.edu (Danyel Fisher)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:49:47 -0700
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kdl2t$8ho$1@news.service.uci.edu>

> More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> blanks in ( ).

> Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
> Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
> with the same ugly padding...

Indeed. It Greatly Displeases our BDFL. Despite that, it is an old
and well-loved style, a favorite from many languages... Because I
am carefully putting off real work, I have saved you the effort of a
solid web search.

In my Java class, lo those many years ago, we learned that we want
spaces in that open style: foo( bar )
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~croft/research/java/guide/#format
http://www.javaranch.com/style.jsp#space
    (which is nice enough to point out that this is a hybrid of practicality
of the way that many text editors implement double-click-for-copy, and
tradition)

Many others disagree.
http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConventions.doc7.html#475
http://www.geosoft.no/javastyle.html#White%20Space
[Note that the JavaSoft guide wants you to space things as
    foo( bar );
while the GeoSoft guide prefers
    foo(bar);
]

------------------
I don't know what the history is. I tried a few other languages, looking
for "<language> style guide whitespace" on Google...

Most languages dislike it...

Perl doesn't care too much. Apparently, there's more than one way to do it.
http://www.javaranch.com/style.jsp#space

C:
http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/paul/docs/cstyle/cstyle06.htm

Lisp:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/html/faqs/lang
/lisp/part1/faq-doc-4.html

Fortran:
http://www.aeem.iastate.edu/Computers/Software/Fortran/guide.html

Ada:
http://www.grammatech.com/aadoc/man-whitespace.html#horizontalWhitespace

And then some breakthroughs...

Assembly:
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/Page_asm/moreasm/asmstyle.htm
mentions things like
     mov ax, 10;  { Set AX to 11 }
;                       swap( a[i][j], b[j][i] );
in comments.

http://www.students.stedwards.edu/~ttiriti/pl.htm
suggests
    awk -F: '{ print $1; print $2; print $3 }' /etc/passwd
which is a habit I certainly find myself falling into when
I'm hacking shell scripts--it keeps everything apart, and
therefore VERY VERY clear to the interpreter.

Does anyone have a better sense of history on this?

--Danyel




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 23 09:51:23 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:51:23 -0500
Subject: Finding modules in subdirectories of sys.path
References: <3b841921@news.ColoState.EDU> <to88ed1cncem3c@corp.supernews.com> <3b844e00@news.ColoState.EDU>
Message-ID: <toa2lesu9dcjbe@corp.supernews.com>

Norm
Exactly!  It all depended on how it got installed :)  Please note that in
cases like these, a subdirectory is really refered to as a Sub Package of
the Scientific package.  So you import first the sub package you want to
use.  Please note for your future reference those __init__.py files in a
package or a sub package that make that possible.
Maan

"Norm Wood" <norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu> wrote in message
news:3b844e00 at news.ColoState.EDU...
> Maan,
>
> Thanks - after trying a few more things along the lines of your
> suggestion, I think I see how it works.
>
> If sys.path is '/home/me/lib/python2.0', then "import Physics"
> doesn't work, but "import Scientific.Physics" does.
>
> If sys.path is '/home/me/lib/python2.0/Scientific', then
> "import Physics" works.
>
> Regards,
> Norm
>
> Maan M. Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> > Norm
> > I have not used these packages and I do not know how they install.  But
from
> > my experience in Windows - if you install packages, you should be able
to
> > use modules by importing packages.  so if you have these directories in
> > sys.path, did you try:
> > import Physics
> > for example and see what happens?  Provided you have __init__.py in that
> > subdirectory it should find it.  Then you can use modules from this
package.
> > Maan
> >
> > "Norm Wood" <norm at wombat.atmos.colostate.edu> wrote in message
> > news:3b841921 at news.ColoState.EDU...
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I've installed the NumPy extensions and Scientific Python package into
> >> subdirectories of my home directory:
> >>
> >> /home/me/lib/python2.0/Numeric
> >> /home/me/lib/python2.0/Scientific
> >>
> >>
> >> The Scientific directory contains a number of subdirectories (Physics,
> >> Statistics, etc.).  It appears that, in order to import modules from
> >> these subdirectories, each subdirectory has to be listed explicitly
> >> in sys.path.  Otherwise, I get an import error.
> >>
> >> Is it possible to cause python to search recursively through the
> >> directories rooted at /home/me/lib/python2.0?  Or is it possible
> >> to place some sort of index in /home/me/lib/python2.0 so that python
> >> can locate the modules within the subdirectories without explicitly
> >> listing each subdirectory in sys.path?




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 04:51:38 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:51:38 +0200
Subject: Python under Windows:  free cl.exe?
References: <13285ea2.0108201346.241cae3@posting.google.com> <T9gg7.137082$Xr6.749458@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <9lt7er01iqd@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:T9gg7.137082$Xr6.749458 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> J.Jacob:
>
> > Where can we download the (free commandline version) microsoft C++ 6.0
> > compiler cl.exe and nmake.exe?  We need it if we want to do
> > extending/embedding C(++) and many 3rd party Python packages want you to
> use
> > cl.exe and nmake.exe
>
>    I'm not sure if the tools you get with the .NET Beta SDK are sufficient
> for building Python as I think it uses Visual C++ projects rather than
> makefiles and so may need Visual Studio to build them. The SDK includes
> Microsoft C/C++ 13.0 rather than C/C++ 12.0 which came with Visual C++
6.0.

Maybe not to build Python itself, but we've had reports on this group
of those compilers being sufficient to build extensions via distutils'
setup.py.  So it's presumably only an issue of making the needed
makefile[s] from the .dsw/.dsp and it might work...


>    Buying one of the magazines that feature the .NET Beta SDK as cover
discs
> (such as a recent (August?) MSDN magazine) is a much better idea as it
saves
> a lot of download time and also gets you a beta of Visual Studio .NET.
Dunno
> if VS.NET is capable of building Python.

Haven't tried, but I've experimentally used VS.NET on other big and
complicated projects made with VC++6 and it worked fine.


Alex





From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug  7 19:26:03 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:26:03 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B83E9E3@twigger.nl> <mailman.997195091.27673.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fO_b7.80083$EP6.19456640@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.997195091.27673.python-list at python.org...
> def comb(list, *pos):
>     if not pos:
>        pos = 0
>    else:
>        pos = pos[0]

Slightly more idiomatic:

def comb(lists, pos=None):
    if pos == None:
       pos = 0

Masking a builtin function by reusing its name leads to trouble when
you later try to use that builtin.  I try to avoid it.  Some like
living dangerously.  Your choice.

Terry J. Reedy





From patio87 at aol.com  Wed Aug 15 23:16:01 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 03:16:01 GMT
Subject: Hacking in python
Message-ID: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com>

Does any 1 know any thing about hacking in python


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 00:11:30 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:11:30 -0400
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <1a517b5.0108281212.1cb930c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEKHLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bryan Olson]
> I've done a Google search and found that others have had the same
> problem I'm having.  Any upgrade of Python, even from 2.0 to 2.1, breaks
> extension modules.

This is true on Windows, across minor version changes (2.0 to 2.1, yes; 2.1
to 2.1.1, no).  It's not generally true on non-Windows systems (there's a
Python API version number that gets bumped when incompatible changes get
made to the Python C API, but that doesn't get bumped as often as the minor
version number changes).

> I'm working on MS-Windows, and the extension cannot find python20.dll,
> which is not surprising because it was replace with python21.dll.

That *is* surprsing, because the Wise installer (before 2.2a2) generally
refused to delete anything from a system directory.  That is, while
python21.dll got added to your system directory, not even running the 2.0
uninstaller will remove python20.dll (not in my experience, anyway).

> I suppose I could put back the old DLL, but I don't know what that
> would do, since the rest of the system is using the newer DLL.

I'm not clear on why the scheme works the way it does, but one apparent goal
was to allow multiple versions of Python to coexist peacefully on Windows.

> ...
> So here's my proposal for a solution:
> ...
> Is this idea PEP-worthy?

Any proposal is PEP-worthy <wink>.  Try to enlist Mark Hammond, though, as
it's his and ActiveState's Win32 work that rely most heavily on the details.




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sun Aug 26 16:31:38 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:31:38 GMT
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
References: <mailman.998584063.22360.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl69d4z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998656777.13591.python-list@python.org> <7xr8u12nqw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9mbmba$d9a$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>>  * Caching.  Mason caches component output to DBM whereby SkunkWeb
>>    caches to disk files.  SkunkWeb's cache can be shared between
>>    machines as well as managed with filesystem tools.  SkunkWeb's
>>    caching interface is also a lot easier to use.

> OK, but if you need a lot of caching, is that not a sign that the
> template engine is too slow?  I'm even more scared of Zope.  I notice
> that www.zope.com says it's served by three separate machines
> connected by a load balancer. I don't know how many visitors they get
> but it can't be nearly enough to need that much hardware under any
> reasonable page generating system.

In part that's of course for reliability, not speed, and for publicly
testing their ZEO on a site. Note also that they do give a *lot* of 
abilities to their members (Zope management screen access), so much they've
been getting trouble with warez kiddies setting up accounts, etc. If
you're talking about www.zope.org, that is (.com is rather new and
really doesn't need all that stuff). I've run Zope sites and generally they
don't buckle under load that easily, though it can get tricky, depending
on the application.

Anyway, caching is always useful, apart from the speed of the templating
engine; your underlying application may be relatively slow, for instance,
and if you cache you can simply serve more pages, whatever your speed.

Regards,

Martijn



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 12:42:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:42:37 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <3B7E5390.C6966CAD@stroeder.com> <62vf7.4717$Vs2.403505@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <9lm66d0e3@enews3.newsguy.com>

"liam" <lcampbell at ubytes.com> wrote in message
news:62vf7.4717$Vs2.403505 at news.pacbell.net...
> agreed, its fine to leave it to yourself to know not to change a constant
> but if its a big project constants would be a nice plus so your associates
> dont mess thing up, accidently?

In a big project, the overhead of writing and installing the "constants
module" I explain in my Cookbook recipe is surely less than 1/10000
of the project effort -- so, 0.01% is NOT a big price to pay if you DO
consider it "a nice plus" to get some protection against accidents of
this nature.


Alex





From graz at mindless.com  Fri Aug 17 03:42:45 2001
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 07:42:45 GMT
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <D71f7.123070$g_3.18618906@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <VV3f7.7522$ms2.690750@news1.cableinet.net>

In article <D71f7.123070$g_3.18618906 at typhoon.austin.rr.com>, "Wen Jiang"
<wjiang71 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> so the worker program would be able to run at background even the X
> session is done.I have the worker class method runable as a standalone
> program before I got the GUI anyway. The GUI could then be restarted
> later to probe for the progress and intermediate results from the log
> files.

Why not make it a daemon that runs continuously in the background,
servicing requests from clients. Making a process into a daemon on Unix
is really quite easy.

  http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66012

If you made the client and server talk to each other via something like
XML-RPC then you could even put your daemon on a different machine if you
wanted, allowing clients to connect over the network and farm jobs out to
a server.

  http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2000/11/22/xmlrpcclient.html

With RPC you can execute procedures, or methods, on remote systems. So
you'd have one RPC method to start the processing job, and one to
retrieve the status of the job or the final answer.

HTH.

--
Graham


From Nadav at envision.co.il  Thu Aug  2 13:24:28 2001
From: Nadav at envision.co.il (Nadav Horesh)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:24:28 +0300
Subject: Slices objects
Message-ID: <3B698CCC.FE6967A@envision.co.il>

Isn't it a consistency loop-hole that slices object shortcut --- n:m:k
is
valid only in indexing expression and not elsewhere?
Of course there could be a problem with statements like:

for i in n:
    ...,
or dictionary generation.

With some changes like replacing the : sign with ; (yes, it is a
statement terminator, but not much in use as I see it) or @ ...

Anyway with a convenient syntax slices can be more handy, say, with the
implementation of iterator they can replace the lazy evaluator xrange
function.

  Nadav.




From jknapka at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 17:42:14 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph A. Knapka)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:42:14 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net> <3B7023A4.6020408@herts.ac.uk> <9kpg5k02utj@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B7060B7.1D63A71D@earthlink.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:3B7023A4.6020408 at herts.ac.uk...
> >
> > Joseph A. Knapka wrote:
> >
> > > PEP proposal: add a backtracking Horn-clause resolution
> > > engine to Python!
> > >
> > >  :-)
> > >
> > > This problem is a two-liner in Prolog:
> > >
> > > one_of_each([],[]).
> > > one_of_each([H|T],[H1|Ts]) :- member(H1,H), one_of_each(T,Ts).
>     ...
> > backtracking Horn-clause resolution engine, that can't be real
> > terminology, I am sure you just plagerised Elmer Fudge :)
> 
> The terminology is right, but the Prolog example he gives looks
> just like a transliteration of a ML or Haskell program and uses no
> backtracking that I can see.

Yet it's there. member/2 is nondeterministic, so the code
above will find every solution, if invoked via findall or
within a failure loop.

I don't know ML or Haskell (yet :-)

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug 23 19:27:46 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:27:46 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <rhgh7.13554$54.522655@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xvgjf6wee.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
[ ... ]
>
> > and there is little interest in improving its speed compared to
> > improvements in other areas.
>
> There seems to be considerable interest in Python's speed in this
> newsgroup, I've been happy to find :)
>
... and if interest were convertedinto action something might happen. Alas
most of the interest is in seeing other people do the work. If you're
interested in speed, and want a comiler, the fastest way to get one is to
start working on it yourself.

> > Python programmers tend to adopt a philosophy of making code work
> > rather than making code fast.  Given a choice of doing one or the
> > other, any reasonable person would pick the former.
>
> That is a platitude.  To paraphrase Jon Bentley: whatever computer
> system you're currently using to surf the web has hundreds of known,
> but minor, bugs.  If a fairy godmother appeared before each user and
> gave them one wish, and they had to choose between eliminating the
> bugs or making their surfing experience 100 times faster, do you
> really think every reasonable person would decline the speedup?  SPEED
> MATTERS.  From a user's point of view it sometimes matters even more
> than correctness.
>
Nonsense. In the cases where correctness is important, nothing will
substitute for it. When correctness isn't important, what is? A program
which gives me the wrong answers in a tenth of the time is of no interest to
me. Ask an accountant how much speedup would compensate for an unbalanced
ledger.

"Minor bugs" are irritating but acceptable not because they produce
"slightly wrong" answers, but because sometimes they don't produce answers
when they should. But I suppose you think I'm not being reasonable here...

[ ... ]

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From emile at fenx.com  Thu Aug 23 15:14:19 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:14:19 -0700
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9m3hpp$567$1@usenet.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <9m3kvp$73mp$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Me too.  ;-)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Chad Franklin Netzer" <cnetzer at Stanford.EDU> wrote in message
news:9m3hpp$567$1 at usenet.Stanford.EDU...
> gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>
> >I don't think # is right, because it's already used for comments.  But
> >perhaps :][: would do the trick.  So it'd be v[5 :][: 2].  It's more
> >complex, but looks nice.  And doesn't introduce any new punctuation into
> >the language.  Shall I start on the PEP?
>
> :-)  Well, *I* thought it was funny...
>
> --
> Chad Netzer
> chad.netzer at stanfordalumni.org
>



From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 04:39:10 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 01:39:10 -0700
Subject: redirect python output + extension type with own print method = FAILS
References: None <e71960c5.0108102057.28ba9f7a@posting.google.com> <997511725.462302@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108110039.540c7e9d@posting.google.com>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<997511725.462302 at yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>...

> BOTTOMLINE ANSWER:  If you want to say "print xxx" and have the
> output go through your stdout - you don't really want a "print"
> method, you want a "repr" method.  No I/O, just return a string
> (as in PyString_FromString().)  The "print" statement does all the I/O.

Donn,

You are exactly right.  Thanks!


From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Aug  8 14:05:32 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 04:05:32 +1000
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <87snf2mnpv.fsf@xeno.localhost>

Lee <lee.r2d2 at ntlworld.com> writes:

> Hi there, I wonder if someone could possibly tell me what is wrong with
> the following statement. I'm extremely embarrased to ask but here
> goes...
> 
> >>>  if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
>     vowel='true'
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<pyshell#46>", line 1, in ?
>     if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
> TypeError: bad operand type(s) for |

The | operator doesn't expect characters as its operands. (Even if it
did, I doubt think you'd get the results you expected, but to explain
why is a long(er) story) ;-)

If you really need a more detailed answer, ask away. If you just want
to make it work, try this:

if fname[1] in 'aeiou':
	vowel = 'true'






From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 21 16:19:12 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:19:12 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation????
References: <mailman.998413112.10035.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <to5h93ot58dife@corp.supernews.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998413112.10035.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Maan M. Hamze wrote:
>
> >  [snip]
> > Ok!  I am not going to provide this argument.  So, the Text Input
element
> > that I left empty and had not provided a vlaue for should NOT make it
into
> > FieldStorage() if user does not type some characters in it.  Right?  I
tried
> > it.  It does not make it.
> > Even if I provide a value of " " (is " " an empty string??)
>
> No. If a string contains even just a single whitespace character it is not
> empty.
>
That is what I want and that is what I expected.
<form with some action=key_list.py>
<input type=text name=FirstName value = " ">    note that the value is a
white space
<submit goes here>
</form>
key_list.py:
 print "content-type:text/heml\n\n"
 form = cgi.FieldStorage()
 for name in form.keys():
    print "Input: " + name + " value: " + form[name].value + "<BR>"

I am not getting the Text element with value = " " in the list

Also, if I set value of Text input element into "" (empty) or if I do not
include value at all in the form, but then enter a space from the form
itself and submit; again I am not getting the text element in the list.
If you are saying that it should be there if there is a white space, I'll
just try it again.

> > 2.  BUT, read on:
> >
> >  [snip]
> >
> > Of interest is:   if form.has_key("firstname")  and
form["firstname"].value
> > != ""
> > How come we are checking for the key AND that the vlaue of the key is
not
> > ""?  Is not that code assuming that a non-empty string can be included
in
> > FieldStorage() without using keep_blank_values?  Thus a contradiction
with
> > what point 1. has to say about it?
>
oppps....  I meant to say:  Is not that code assuming that AN EMPTY string
can be included in FieldStorage() without using keep_blank_values?

> It depends on the browser. I'm not certain what the RFCs or W3C has to say
> about it, but a browser usually does not send to the server information
about
> a field that has no value. That doesn't necessarily mean that a browser
may
> not try to pull that stunt, however :) So the code makes sure that if
there IS
> a value, that it is not empty.
>
Ok!  I see.  So PythonWin documentation states the ideal situation, and the
bit of code above ensures that this ideal situation is enforced.  This makes
sense now.  So the issue that remains is why I am not getting in the list of
keys the Text Input element that has a white space which is NOT empty.
However, I'll try again.
I have by the way Python 2.1; Win NT 4 workstation, and IE 5.5.
Thanks,
Maan




From nicoe at wanadoo.be  Thu Aug 30 13:27:20 2001
From: nicoe at wanadoo.be (Nicolas Evrard)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:27:20 +0200
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
In-Reply-To: <3B8D302F.55F421C6@ccvcorp.com>; from jeff@ccvcorp.com on Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:10:56 +0200
References: <20010829171028.B8680@Nutella> <mailman.999098332.24419.python-list@python.org> <3B8D302F.55F421C6@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20010830192720.A10893@Nutella>

On 20:10 29.08.2001 Jeff Shannon wrote:
> 
> Nicolas Evrard wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone, this is my first post to the list and let me say that I
> > find python really exciting ... Looks a bit like scheme but is fast and
> > have a large community of users ...
> >
> > Here 's what I've done :
> >
> > To try the __comp__ method I've done a class for complex number (the
> usual
> > example). But here are the result I've got :
> >
> 
> ... I think that the real problem here, is that you actually want to be
> defining __cmp__ (no 'o').  Your __comp__ method works just fine, but is
> not
> called when using less-than (<) (or any other comparison operator, of
> course).

Thanks that did the trick ... What a fool I am I didn't even tough about a
typo ;)

-- 
--------------------------------------- -?)
Evrard Nicolas        Happily using:    /\\
Li?ge (Belgium)      DEBIAN GNU\LINUX  _\//
--------------------------------------------



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 16:47:39 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:47:39 -0400
Subject: Compiling Python 2.1.1 without 16-bit integer type
In-Reply-To: <1bcfff91.0108100950.26c0d273@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEAHLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Konrad Hinsen]
> I am trying to install Python 2.1.1 on a Cray T3E, whose C compiler
> doesn't have a 16-bit integer type (char is 1 byte, short is 4,
> everything else is 8). Compilation then stops with the message:
>
> Fatal Python error: Unicode configuration error: sizeof(Py_UNICODE) !=
> 2 bytes
>
> I don't need Unicode support on the Cray, but can I disable it?

No.  See the SourceForge bug list for lots more on this (search for T3E).
You're likely to have other problems on T3E too; AFAIK, if you get it to
work correctly on T3E, you'll be the first.  Also IIRC, right shifts of
signed integral types do not extend the sign bit on T3E, and there are
probably still bad assumptions to the contrary in the Python code base.
Patches appreciated!  If you find a bad right shift, replace it with the
Py_ARITHMETIC_RIGHT_SHIFT macro.

> If not, could I use a two-byte structure to represent wide characters?

No, it does arithmetic on values of this type.

> Any other suggestions?

Try current CVS.  It so happens I removed the last "exactly 2 bytes wide"
assumption from the Unicode implementation last night.  It hasn't been
*tested* on a box without a 2-byte integral type, though.




From guido at python.org  Fri Aug 10 23:32:04 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:32:04 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au> <9l0fu80287j@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cp66bv46jk.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Joal Heagney" <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3B73B115.9981318D at student.gu.edu.au...
>     ...
> > I LOVE this language. Alex, you're empty class trick just made it into
> > my private python scrap-book.
> 
> Glad you liked it!  That convinced me to post it as a recipe to the
> cookbook, with slightly more complete discussion -- please see
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66507
> Comments, ratings and feedback are welcome, as usual!

While I probably introduced this myself (pickle uses it), I have one
reservation.  Assignment to self.__class__ is unique to Python -- it's
not an idiom one can easily translate to other languages.  It's also a
relatively new Python feature (I don't even know if Jython supports
it).

But maybe more importantly, I don't know how to support this esoteric
feature after the type/class unification is complete.  Under the new
system, not all instances are born the same: instances may have slots
for instance variables rather than a __dict__ -- using slots makes for
more space-efficient instances.  (Having a __dict__ is still the
default, and an instance can have both slots and a __dict__.)

Fortunately, the type/class unification has a different idiom
available to avoid __init_: __new__.  There are two parts to object
construction, __new__ and __init__.  __new__ is a class method, and
constructs a minimal object.  After __new__ has returned an
instance,__init__ is called to further initialize the instance.  At
least that's what the normal constructor (calling the class) does.
You can call __new__ directly to construct an instance bypassing
__init__.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Aug  6 04:15:34 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 10:15:34 +0200
Subject: Plea for help with Large File Support
References: <mailman.996849786.26685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j43d75txi1.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Chris Withers <chrisw at nipltd.com> writes:

> What do I need to do to get Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1 compiled in
> such a way that I read and write to files bigger than 2GB?

I recommend compiling with -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64. That will
automatically make python use fopen64. Then, you should run a simple
program like

open("/etc/passwd")

under strace(1), and check whether open(2) is called with O_LARGEFILE.
If it is, and you still get an error, then it is a kernel problem.

Regards,
Martin


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Aug 30 07:29:34 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:29:34 GMT
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com> <9mkpqa0158l@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <yspj7.696$jK5.5475@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Alex Martelli:

> But although I use VIM for most of my editing, my
> vote as most-amazing-editor goes to SciTE, see
> http://www.scintilla.org/.  The most amazing thing
> about it is http://www.scintilla.org/Sc1.exe.  It's
> just 200K to download (vs a few megabytes for VIM
> and many megabytes for Emacs) as a stand-alone
> Windows executable

   Sc1.exe cheats a little by using the UPX compressor - many people don't
like this because it uses up more RAM than the same program as an
uncompressed EXE due to the way that demand paging of normal EXEs means they
do not need to have all code loaded into RAM and the images are shared
between processes. I like Sc1 for the simplicity of a single download but
most users will want to have the properties files separate so they can be
tweaked.

> -- and that single little .exe
> file is a complete editor that knows about umpteen
> languages INCLUDING not just colorization, auto-
> indent, folding, etc, but ALSO the ability to run
> (or compile, etc, depending on the programming
> language you're using) the stuff you're editing
> in another pane.  The author, Neil Hodgson, and
> the dozens of contributors, have really done a
> SWELL job!!!  The only thing that doesn't work in
> the 200K Sc1.Exe is Help (F1) -- I guess the help
> file just didn't fit:-)

   The documentation should make this a bit more explicit. SciTE's help
command is not for generic help about SciTE (which would be a good feature
to add) but for context-sensitive help for the language of the current file.
To set this up with ActivePython's help files, the following properties can
be used:

if PLAT_WIN
  command.help.*.py=$(CurrentWord)!C:\Python21\Documentation\Python.chm
  command.help.subsystem.*.py=4

 Watch for line wrap on the command.help.*.py line and use the right path to
find your installation of ActivePython documentation. Once this is set up,
pressing F1 while the caret is within a word (such as a module, function or
method) will display help with the index positioned on that word if there is
help available for it. You can also use other help systems such as running
WinHelp, a browser or man on linux.

   While Sc1 has a reasonable set of properties baked in, the location of
documentation varies too much so use Options | Open Global Options File,
SciTE will complain that the file doesn't exist yet which is cool, add the
options and save. This creates a SciTEGlobal.properties file in the same
directory as Sc1.exe and these options will override baked in properties.

   Neil




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 15:59:44 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 12:59:44 -0700
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x66bj6csv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

polopunk209 at hotmail.com (Josh) writes:
> I want to work with PyGAME. But, I know I need to spend a little more
> time with some simple Python programs. But, I have no idea what would
> be a good program for a novice to work on. This isn't helped by the
> fact that the only need I really have for a computer at this point in
> my life is entertainment. Anyway, what do you guys think are some good
> problems for a novice such as myself to tackle? Thanks for your
> suggestions.

I'd say get a good introductory programming book and work on some
problems that interest you.  For games, you might start out writing
some simple text-based games like "guess the animal": you think of
an animal and the computer asks (your answers start with >>>):

   -- Does it fly?
   >>> no
   -- Does it have tusks?
   >>> yes
   -- My guess: it's an elephant.  Is that right?
   >>> no
   -- OK, what is it?
   >>> a walrus
   -- What's a yes/no question that lets me tell a walrus from an elephant
   >>> does it swim?
   -- What's the answer to 'does it swim?' for 'a walrus'?
   >>> yes

When you teach the program a new animal, it remembers the animal and
the new question in a disk file for next time.


From fluxent at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 10:18:33 2001
From: fluxent at yahoo.com (Bill Seitz)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 07:18:33 -0700
Subject: Winer on MS scripting strategy: implications for Python.NET?
Message-ID: <e2491a75.0108290618.2c072435@posting.google.com>

See http://www.xmlrpc.com/stories/storyReader$1957

Dave believes (based on discussions such as
http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$5341?mode=day) that .NET
implementations will lead to forks in the underlying languages, based
on a standard embrace-extend strategy, which will lead to the .NET
versions of each language getting much bigger than the root versions.
Then they'll start nudging those .NET developers toward C#...

Thoughts?


From edash_dgi at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 19:25:48 2001
From: edash_dgi at hotmail.com (Ellen Dash)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:25:48 -0400
Subject: help with PyArg_ParseTuple
Message-ID: <F259C8wSA1XvpFVjCRG00007c54@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I am trying to use PyArg_ParseTuple with "O&" in order to convert a PyObject 
(that refers to a pygtk widget) into a GtkObject.  Does anyone have such an 
example that I could look at?

Thanks,
Ellen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug  6 00:15:42 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:15:42 -0500
Subject: interpreter use... help?
In-Reply-To: <BZnb7.1612$96.1236@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>
References: <BZnb7.1612$96.1236@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <15214.6638.159290.638276@beluga.mojam.com>

    cc> How do I type try and except statements into the interpreter?  I
    cc> know this sounds REALLY REALLY dumb, but I'm having problems.

    cc> Here is what I do:

    try:
              action1()
              except TypeError:

Note that the try: and except ...: clauses have to be at the same
indentation.  That's why you're getting a syntax error.  Also, there has to
be something in the block controlled by the except clause, even if it's just
a pass statement:

    try:
        action1()
    except TypeError:
        pass

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From michaelteo at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 31 02:43:53 2001
From: michaelteo at bigfoot.com (Michael Teo)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:43:53 +0800
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
References: <slrn9osmeo.g1.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain> <7xheupk0le.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9oucr5.1ku.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>

Thanks for your help.
However, I noticed that Python 2.1 does not give a trailing 'L' for str(l).
Is there any solution which will work well for Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1 ?

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:51:25 +0800, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>michaelteo at bigfoot.com (Michael Teo) writes:
>> I get an "OverflowError: long int too long to convert" when I tried to 
>> print "%d" % l
>> where l is a long Python value.
>> 
>> I have tried using str(l) but that gives a trailing 'L'.
>> 
>> Any good suggestion on how to solve this problem will be greatly
>> appreciated. Thanks.
>
>print str(l)[:-1]


-- 
Michael Teo <mailto:michaelteo at bigfoot.com>
http://miketeo.net/
PGP  0x6C846A9C  DB:7D:51:D4:4D:AB:97:79:E4:68:D9:07:94:36:D5:1A:6C:84:6A:9C
     0x6937FB05  08:50:A1:4D:2E:45:58:60:DE:71:1F:30:63:54:EF:7B



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 06:39:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:39:13 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net> <7x1ym8jyuk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lo5ub1g3p@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7x1ym8jyuk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> The numbers I actually want to use are closer in magnitude to 7**777
> rather than 7**77777, if that matters.  I'd prefer to avoid using
> a C library.  If I use one, gmpy should do the job.  I've timed
> Python's arithmetic as around 10x slower than gmpy, which is
> quite respectable since gmpy's inner loops are carefully tuned
> assembly code, and this kind of arithmetic is hard to do efficiently

Unfortunately, gmpy just relies on GMP, which in turn only has the
carefully tuned machine-language inner loops on a few selected
architectures -- elsewhere they're replaced by carefully-coded C
which, indeed, cannot be quite as fast.  I noticed because at first
I only had a C-only version of GMP for Windows/VC++6; when I
moved to a GMP version including the port of the assembly part,
performance soared [and another boost came from switching to
an Athlon chip from a pure-Intel one -- so I sort of suspect that
there should probably be different machine-language inner loops
for top performance on Athlon vs Pentium3, given different
caching, branch-prediction, etc, etc].  Unfortunately I did no
careful measurements (mea culpa!) so thanks for giving them...

> in portable C.  Python's arithmetic is around 100x faster than
> perl's Math::BigInt.

Interesting -- I guess (and hope, because competition is what
keeps everybody on their toes:-) that some devoted Perlist is
already busy recoding their big-int module for performance?-)


Alex





From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Tue Aug  7 08:16:36 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:16:36 +0100
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <mailman.997178713.4482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6FDC24.72A9DC7@westerngeco.com>

Ken,

Take a look at the Pmw (Python Mega Widgets)
they've got an EntryField with validation plus some
built in validators (including dates, numbers, etc)
I use it for validating filenames.



Martin.








Ken Guest wrote:
> 
> hi,
> I'm trying to put together a python + tkinter app with data entry
> validation.
> What I have in mind is that the colour of the text changes depending
> on what the user has typed. (In otherwords the text is displayed in
> red if it is invalid, and in black if it is ok).
> I'd like to use regex (or the more up-to-date re strings) to specify
> what type of text is valid (cf my last query to the help mailing list).
> 
> At the moment, basic code that I have gotten to work looks like:
> 
> self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd='string is int %P',
> invcmd='bell')
> 
> attempts at specifying python procedures for vcmd and invcmd only seem
> to be called when the app in initialising and don't exactly work.
> For example, with
> 
> self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd=self.validate('%P'),
> invcmd=self.invalid())
> 
> the validate and invalid methods are called when the app starts up, but
> neither of those methods are called when any keys are pressed, and I'm
> really not sure that the second definition above is syntatically
> correct, even though the parser didn't catch any problems.
> 
> What I'd like to know is if what I am looking to do is in anyway
> possible, and if anybody has any pointers/ideas on how I could
> implement this functionality.
> Am I left to using TCL expressions for data entry validation (and if so,
> how do I do the above)
> 
> (I have done a number of searches on Google to see if anybody else
> may have run into these questions before but couldn't find anything
> of interest)
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Ken


From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Fri Aug 24 21:48:11 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:48:11 +0100
Subject: Image manipulation
References: <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3@4ax.com> <3B86F062.A0476427@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <du0eot8k8ohco63h02nkdqtbl3mcgd74qp@4ax.com>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:25:07 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Tom Robinson wrote:
>
>> Hi, I want to be able to read in a png/jpeg and then write it out
>> resized with proper antialiasing etc.  I've looked on the vaults of
>> parnassus and there seem to be quite a few things that do this, is
>> there a "best" one?  Is there something in the standard lib that's up
>> to this?
>
>Python Imaging Library.
>
>www.pythonware.com
>
>
>Jeff Shannon
>Technician/Programmer
>Credit International
>

Wicked, just what I'm after.  Thanks everyone who suggested it.

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 24 01:22:25 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:22:25 GMT
Subject: telephone response systems
References: <3b85b763.1043866@nntp.surry.net>
Message-ID: <lwlh7.130658$EP6.36180613@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Charles W. Strickland" <cstrickland at surry.net> wrote in message
news:3b85b763.1043866 at nntp.surry.net...
> How anyone done anything with python or perl with telephone response
> systems?  I'd like to develop a linux based telephone system.

About a month ago, there was a thread on writing systems that interact
with humans via telephone.  If this is what you mean, try
groups.google.com to find it.

Terry J. Reedy





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 13:09:08 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:09:08 GMT
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should apply  to *nix, too)
References: <mailman.999101864.4373.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8d213e.2749671@news.t-online.de>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:19:53 -0700 (PDT), <brueckd at tbye.com> wrote:

>Note the indentation - the close_request call happens only after an
>exception gets raised, and so the threading mix-in works fine. Has yours
>been modified or do I just have a different version than you?

ActiveState ActivePython 2.1.0 Build 210

I rechecked on a clean install and it contains the said line. I didn't
think of the indent solution, I'm still crippled in my thinking by C++
:) Python to the rescue...



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 30 22:13:58 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:13:58 +1200
Subject: Stackless Python and Python 2.x
References: <Xns910BA52745692michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns910D5488B669Cmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <3B8EF2E6.CAEB05CC@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Michael Abbott wrote:
> 
> I've seen Guido van Rossum quoted as being against this because it's
> incompatible with the Java Virtual Machine (as I understood it).

The other reason is that, by all accounts, if anyone
other than Christian Tismer tries to do anything with
the core code, their brain explodes.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 02:05:23 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:05:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
In-Reply-To: <toef3be6ln5ob8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108250203230.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, John Roth wrote:

> "Dave Cinege" <dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.998706141.30883.python-list at python.org...
> > keywords: modify argv change process listing argv[0] ps output
> >
> > This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
> > As you might have guessed this allows one to change to absolute
> > argv values of the python process itself. (It is of great wonder
> > to me why this functionality is not already available...)
>
> Why do you want to do this? Aren't there enough ways of
> confusing yourself without adding a method of lying to yourself
> about your input parameters?
>
> John Roth

It's not so much for lying to yourself as it is about lying to ps. Seeing
'/usr/bin/python MyApp.py' is more ugly than just seeing 'MyApp.py'. Plus,
it's a lot easier to ps aux|grep or killall with the shorter name.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 12:51:56 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:56 -0500
Subject: ByteCode Questions
In-Reply-To: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD5C@newsintern.dspace.de>
References: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD5C@newsintern.dspace.de>
Message-ID: <15234.37292.540956.53658@beluga.mojam.com>

    ...
    Stefan> def Working():
    Stefan>     EvalInCaller("a = 2\n")
    Stefan>     exec("")
    Stefan>     print a

    Stefan> def NotWorking():
    Stefan>     EvalInCaller("a = 2\n")
    Stefan>     print a
    ...

    Stefan> So the question is why does Python take the LOAD_GLOBAL byte
    Stefan> code in the not working function and the LOAD_NAME bytecode in
    Stefan> the working version. How can I force the LOAD_NAME bytecode
    Stefan> dynamically or must I exchange all LOAD_GLOBAL to LOAD_NAME in
    Stefan> the codeblock used.

Python (before 2.1 came out with nested scopes, at least) searches three
namespaces for variables: the current function, the module in which the
function resides, then the module containing all builtin functions.  There
are three types of LOAD_* instructions:

    LOAD_FAST - when the compiler knows the variable reference is to a
    variable local to the current function.  Values are found in a local
    variables array.

    LOAD_GLOBAL - when the compiler knows the variable reference is not to a
    variable local to the current function.  Values are found by dictionary
    lookup, first in the module's globals, then in the builtins.

    LOAD_NAME - when the compiler can't tell.  Values are found by
    dictionary lookup first in the locals dict, then in the globals dict,
    then in the builtins.

When you execute an exec statement, it can put symbols in whatever
namespaces you feed it as the globals and locals.  (You shouldn't use parens
with exec, BTW.  It's a statement, not a function.  Also, exec's that don't
list explicit globals and locals are not a great idea.)  The compiler
short-circuits local variable lookup by indexing into an array in the
current frame object.  That array is of a fixed size (determined at
compile-time), so the compiler can only allocate an array referencing the
objects it knows are local to the current function.  There is also a local
variable dict, but in most cases (except when LOAD_NAME is needed) it's not
needed.

Your EvalInCaller function is effectively putting an exec statement into the
body of your function, but hiding it from the compiler, so the "print a"
statement generates a LOAD_GLOBAL bytecode to find "a".  (It knows "a" was
never set in the function, so it *must* be in the module globals or the
builtins as far as the compiler is concerned.)  When you add an empty exec
statement to the Working function, it signals the bytecode compiler that any
variables the function references that weren't set within the function's
body must be found the slowest way (LOAD_NAME).  Using "from mod import *"
within a function has the same cache-busting effect.  (In 2.2, you get a
SyntaxWarning error about that.  I think it will be elevated to an error in
2.3.)

All that said, I'm not sure there's a good solution for your problem.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Aug 17 14:04:54 2001
From: quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 18:04:54 GMT
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.998010206.14252.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9nqn65.nqe.quinn@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:02:25 -0000, moonlite56 at yahoo.com
<moonlite56 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>How do you predefine a function?

You can't.  Python has to know what a function is before doing anything with
it (like calling it).  But it only tries to do something with it when it
actually sees it, so you don't need compiler reassurances like C forward
declarations.

I.e. you can type things like:

def f():
    x()

def x():
    pass

f()



>                                 I want to change an image in a 
>canvas and update it, but it (of course) comes up the error that the 
>canvas is "referenced before assignment." :) I know there's a way to 
>predefine the function at the beginning of my program but actually 
>define it later on, but I don't know how. Can someone else help?

No, there is no way.  If you could "predefine" a function, what would happen
when you called that function (before it was actually defined)?

You don't give an exact error message or line number, and the code below has
no "canvas" variable, so I can't tell what your problem is.

>Here's my program thus far:
>
>---------------
>
>from Tkinter import *
>import Image,ImageTk
>
>def changeimage():
>        cKuti3.delete(myimage)
>	iKuti3 = 
>ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/pinkvest.gif"))
>	cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

... but you should be aware that creating a new 'cKuti3' in changeimage isn't
going to affect the global cKuti3 at all.  Even if you did rebind the global
name (with a global declaration), the container it's packed into won't know
about that.  Not that you're ever packing it into a container, so it probably
wouldn't even get that far.  You should mutate cKuti3 with method calls:

cKuti3.configure(image=ImageTk.PhotoImage(...))


>top = Tk()
>top.title("Kuti")
>top.geometry("200x100")
>
>iKuti1 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("body/lighttan.gif"))
>iKuti2 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("hair/brownbuns.gif"))
>iKuti3 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/whiteblouse.gif"))
>
>cpic = Canvas(width = 40, height = 40)
>cpic.grid(column = 0, row = 0, columnspan = 2)
>
>cKuti1 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti1)
>cKuti2 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti2)
>cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)
>
>changeimage()
>
top.mainloop()


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 19:32:56 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:32:56 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>
 <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
<tim.one at home.com> writes
....
excuses and attributions elided.

No matter who decided what it seems clear that the decision to go to /
as float had already been taken long before the flamefest took place.

That makes python's development somewhat less than democratic. We get
the chance to shout, but the DFL has already made the decision. In other
words we get to take part in the decision making process if our views
coincide with the dictator's.

At some point the DFL will make a decision that's wrong. I suppose the
herd will have another group hug and accept it.
-- 
Robin Becker


From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Thu Aug 16 00:04:36 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 04:04:36 GMT
Subject: embedded AND extended C code
Message-ID: <3b7b4654$0$330$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Hi All-

I am calling Py_InitModule to load modules before, but I have only used it
in functions that at were meant to extend python only. IE, in initmodule()
functions. Now I am calling it from a C function of a program which embeds
python. Basically, I am both embedding the interpreter in a C program, and
I am extending the interpreter with C code.

The code below does not work. The treemaker.py file makes use of
charstar.strFromAddr(), but when I run it, it says that the global charstar
does not exist.  Is there some step I am missing?

Thanks, Neil Macneale

[snip]

PyObject * strFromAddr(PyObject * self, PyObject * args){
    char * addr = NULL;
    
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &addr)) return NULL;
    return Py_BuildValue("s", addr);

}

static PyMethodDef charStarMethods[] = {
    {"strFromAddr",  strFromAddr,  METH_VARARGS },
    {NULL,NULL}
};


void init_treemaker(char * progName){
    Py_SetProgramName(progName);
    Py_Initialize();

    Py_InitModule("charstar", charStarMethods);
    
    PyRun_SimpleString("import treemaker");
    PyRun_SimpleString("treemaker.initialize()");
   
}


[snip]

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From f91-men at nada.kth.se  Mon Aug  6 06:43:51 2001
From: f91-men at nada.kth.se (Mattias Engdegård)
Date: 6 Aug 01 10:43:51 GMT
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
References: <mailman.997037888.30259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f91-men.997094631@nada.kth.se>

Tony McDonald <tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk> writes:

>gcc -fPIC -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes

Try -mcpu=ultrasparc. gcc generates sparc V7 code by default (no integer
mul/div instructions, so call to library routines are divided)

Also try Forte / WorkShop (Sun's own compiler). It usually generates
better code, sometimes by a substantial amount (although I would guess that
the difference for Python isn't that big)

(of course sparcs cannot really compete with modern x86 cpus on performance
nowadays, unfortunately)



From gabor_papp at my-deja.com  Wed Aug 22 05:31:46 2001
From: gabor_papp at my-deja.com (gabor papp)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 02:31:46 -0700
Subject: tkinter canvas postscript and odd-even filling problem
References: <22886011.0108210120.1d01dbe6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <22886011.0108220131.40ea66f7@posting.google.com>

i figured something out. tk saves the path in postscript format with
the 'eofill' command, which paints the inside of the current path with
the current color, using the even-odd rule to determine what points
are inside. instead of this, tk should use the 'fill' command, when
the inside of the current path is determined by the normal non-zero
winding number rule. in this case the postscript output would look
the same as on the canvas.
gabor papp


From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Fri Aug 17 03:56:43 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:56:43 +0200
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com> <9li8pj$1f6$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3b7ccde8$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Alan Green wrote:
>>1. IDLE
>>2. IDLEfork
>>3. PythonWin
>>4. Komodo
>>5. PythonWorks Pro
>>6. BlackAdder
>>7. VisualPython
> 
> You left out
> 8. Wing IDE from http://archaeopteryx.com/
> 
>>All of these IDEs have a debugger.
> Yep.
> 
>>None support multi-threaded
>>debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.
> 
> They also threaten it, at
> http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide/future
> 

There should be appearing shortly an update of my IDE survey on InformIT - 
giving details on Komodo and BlackAdder. I rather like BlackAdder myself 
(which shouldn't surprise anyone), but I think that Wing IDE is currently
the most powerful IDE available.

On the other hand, having been forced to write a book on BlackAdder and 
PyQt in Emacs meant that I had to learn the Big Monster, and I found it 
works just as well for Python as it does for SGML and Java, and nowadays I 
use little else.

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 03:54:35 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:54:35 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net> <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com> <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <9ll72t01rbk@enews2.newsguy.com>

"liam" <lcampbell at ubytes.com> wrote in message
news:sqff7.779$2k4.75679 at news.pacbell.net...
> i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure. seems kinda
> alot of work just to get a constant. even perl has "use constant" and
thats
> about the ugliest language around :)
    ...
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207

Note that the purpose of the work is ensuring an exception gets
raised if one accidentally tries to rebind a module-attribute that
is meant to be 'constant' (read-only).  "to get a constant", i.e.,
an attribute that does not change, you have to do nothing special:
just don't rebind it, and it will not change.

I agree that in most cases it's not worth it -- it's not important
enough to ensure exceptions get raised for such programming
errors, as an exception will be raised soon afterwards if you run
decent tests AND it's actually important for the attribute not to
be re-bound (often you'll find there's no real need for the
'constantness' and the program works fine even if things do
change:-).  The real purpose of recipe 65207 is showing how
to use an instance in lieu of a module and thereby gain the
ability to use __getattr__/__setattr__ on it.

But if it's not important enough to raise exceptions on such
errors, for it to be worth including a few lines of code in your
site-configuration script, how can it POSSIBLY be important
enough to be worth making the language itself bigger and
more complicated?!  ANY feature in a language must pull its
own weight, else you end up with huge, redundant languages.

If something can be done with a few lines of code in the
language as it is, it requires very strong motivation for that
something to become a built-in language mechanism: most
particularly, that something must be a very important task,
frequently performed, and with a substantial advantage (in
terms of ease of use, performance, or simply the pervasive
effects of standardization) to have it in the language itself.

I think few languages have followed these guidelines for
design and evolution as closely as Python -- not that Python
has been perfect about it, of course, but quite reasonably
close to that ideal.  I think that "constants" are a good
example of something that should NOT be in the language
itself, exactly because it's a minor issue and it can be
easily implemented without too much trouble (it could
be placed in the standard library, which has somewhat
laxer requirements than the language proper, but that's
pretty iffy too).  Good examples of things that _are_
eventually added to the language include the list
comprehensions added in 2.0, nested scopes added in
2.1, iterators added in 2.2.  THESE are language features
that pull their own weight (and even on this you will
find disagreement -- a number of practising pythmen are
rather minimalists than pragmatists:-).


Alex





From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Wed Aug  8 10:25:08 2001
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 15:25:08 +0100 (BST)
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com> <slrn9n08ld.vkj.andrew-usenet@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <3b7141eb.1491038@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2iu4.5ds.andrew-usenet@chiark.greenend.org.uk>

In article <3b7141eb.1491038 at nntp.sprynet.com>, David C. Ullrich wrote:

>It's been determined in many examples that if recursion really bothers
>you when you're writing Python it shouldn't. Or at least it's wrong
>to jump to the conclusion that there's anything wrong with it, it
>has often come out to be the best solution or close to it.

I wasn't disputing this; it's just that I'd written the code by the time
I saw the first solutions coming in, and it seemed a shame not to post
it.

FWIW, in practice I'd probably use an approach very similar to the one
you took.

Andrew

-- 
adw27 at cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk


From rob at jam.rr.com  Thu Aug 30 10:20:39 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:20:39 GMT
Subject: Thanks Python
References: <a74b343d.0108300324.58424f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E4B77.3040105@jam.rr.com>

No doubt Python reciprocates the sentiment!

Du Wellsun wrote:

> Python is very nice! I like it.
> 


-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 05:12:15 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:12:15 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFAC@intrepid>

> From:	Alex Martelli [SMTP:aleax at aleax.it]
> Paging down the PDF file (with Acrobat Reader 4 working as a
> plug-in to IE 5.5) at page 5 I get an error messagebox:
>     "There was an error processing a page. Too few operands."
> then on clicking OK to that, another:
>     "An unrecognized token 285.8.Tw was found"
> and page 5 appears totally white.  So there would seem to
> be some problem with the PDF version.
 
Hmmm. Works OK for me, but then I'm using Acrobat Exchange. Not sure what I
can do to fix this, since I can't reproduce it.

Could someone do me a favour and send me another PDF of the base HTML file?

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From albert.brandl at lindeverlag.at  Fri Aug  3 08:07:11 2001
From: albert.brandl at lindeverlag.at (Albert Brandl)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:07:11 +0200
Subject: Q: Code Review Checklist?
Message-ID: <20010803.140710.7684930.2921@albert.lindeverlag.at>

Hi, all!

I've just stumbled across the Personal Software Process and its Code
Review Checklist. While this checklist seems quite helpful for reviewing
C code, it does not quite fit Python ("Check that all strings are
identified by pointers and terminated in NULL"...).

I'd like to know if somebody uses a similar list which has been tailored
to the needs of Python. If yes: could you share it with us?

	Thanx in advance,

		Albert


From gioco at nekhem.com  Fri Aug 24 11:12:45 2001
From: gioco at nekhem.com (Corrado Gioannini)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:12:45 +0200
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
In-Reply-To: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>
References: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010824171245.B1982@zephyr>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:31:44AM -0500, Maan M. Hamze wrote:
> Is it possible to link Dictionary values of each key into a text file?  So
> the value of a key is a text file somewhere on the PC.  And if so, how do I
> instruct Python to open the text file and print into screen when the key of
> the text file is used?
you can do it by just putting the file name in the dictionary and define a
function to print its content:

dict = {'key1':'/path/file1', 'key2':'/path/file2'}

def printFile(filename):
    f = open(filename)
    print f.read()
    f.close()

and then just call:

printFile(dict['key2'])

> Also, is it possible to link a value of a Dictionary key into a Python
> function/procedure?  So, if the key is encountered, a way for the
> functionprocedure to be run.

yes, just do it:

def exampleFunction():
    print 'something'

dict = {'key': exampleFunction}

then you can for example:

apply(dict['key'])



cheers
Corrado

-- 

Corrado Gioannini
<gioco at nekhem.com>

"Thought is only a flash between two long nights,
                                         but this flash is everything."
                                                          (H. Poincar?)
		      



From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug  9 23:43:23 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:43:23 -0500
Subject: counting occurrences
References: <mailman.997165211.14595.python-list@python.org> <9kp2g30253q@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B73585B.EA33CD3B@seebelow.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997165211.14595.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> > Fear of that kind of bloat held up the introduction of dict.update() for
> > years:  in d.update(e), in case of duplicate keys k, most apps seem to
> want
> > e[k] to "win", but some want d[k] to triumph, others would prefer an
> > exception get raised, and still others want the new d[k] to be (d[k],
> e[k])
> > or [d[k], e[k]] or one of those swapped.  Guido was in a rare mood when he
> > said "oh, screw it -- e[k] wins".  You might be able to sell
> 
> I guess that must be part of what makes him a great language
> designer and me a poor one: faced with such a situation, where
> several slight variations make sense, MY instincts would be
> to add a second optional flag parameter -- HIS are to block
> everything for years and finally choose ONE alternative, no
> options allowed.  When looking at it "in the small", my
> instincts may make sense to most designers -- but, add half
> a dozen option-flags to each of a few hundreds analogous
> situation in a language and its libraries, and I suspect my
> option-giving instincts would have led to substantial bloat,
> while his have kept things reasonably streamlined and
> simple, without in the end substantially reducing the power
> actually made available to programmers.  Live and learn...!

I supposed language designers have to be careful that feature bloat
doesn't become "death by a thousand cuts".

Of course, Perl is the poster-child here.  But given that a thing like
Perl is _supposed_ to offer "more than one way to do it" I always wonder
how the designer knows how many multiple ways to do something are
enough.  (In other words, "more than one way to do it" isn't a unifying
design principle.)  But in that case, I guess the successful language
designers can only make some sort of trade of "value added" versus
bloat.

But conversely, any strict form of "minimalism" is likewise a fetish. 
To that end, Tim's famous philosophy wisely hedges using fuzzy words
like "should", "preferably", and "obvious"*.

But as someone who is trying to begin Unix (via Linux), I've seen the
benefit of the limitation of features that good ol' DOS commands have. 
DOS commands typically offer only a half-dozen options--only three or so
of which you regularly use.  And although one sometimes wishes a DOS
command could do something that it can't, the converse problem of having
to read, digest, understand, and master the twelve dozen options of each
Linux command is a bit daunting.  But if they would put the most
important six options at that top of the man page, that might help a
_little_...

a-forrest-with-more-trees-requires-more-obvious-path-markings-ly y'rs,

=g2

*   the-trick-to-a-good-philosophy-is-to-articulate-enough-
    contradictory-principles-so-that-what-you-really-want-
    to-do-can-always-be-rationalized<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug  6 00:56:33 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 21:56:33 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.c <mailman.996867609.24263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kl821$75o$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.996867609.24263.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    Paul> For example, this would be illegal:
>
>    Paul>    except x not in class ZeroDivisionError:
>
>But this would be a common construct I think.  You often don't want
>SystemExit and KeyboardInterrupt caught, so I think it would be useful to be
>able to have
>
>    except x not in clas SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt:

except x in class SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt:
    raise

Yeah, it's a tiny wart, but I'm perfectly happy to live with it.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Thu Aug 16 22:50:38 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 02:50:38 GMT
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.993251195.18080.python-list@python.org> <3b7c7fef$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <3b7c867e$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Wait- I correct myself, the 'print b,' is to avoid new lines. I don't 
know why your code isn't working then....

best of luck-  Neil Macneale

Neil Macneale <mac4-devnull at theory.org> wrote:
> In every code snipet, I see different problems. Some of then I am not
> sure how you achieved...
> 
> this works for me:
> 
>>>> a=0
>>>> b=1
>>>> while b < 1000:
> ...     print b
> ...     a,b = b,a+b
> 1
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 5
> 8
> 13
> 21
> 34
> 55
> 89
> 144
> 233
> 377
> 610
> 987
>>>> 
> 
> crombie <crombie88 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> newbie question:
>> trying to type this in:
>> >>> a, b = 0, 1
>> >>> while b < 1000:
>> ...     print b,
>> ...     a, b = b, a+b
>> ... 
>> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987
>> 
> This one looks pretty good, but you should not have a comma after the
> 'print b'
> 
> 
>> 
>> but result is this:
>> >>> while b< 10
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> You need a ':'
> 
>> >>> while b < 10:
>> ... print b
>> IndentationError: expected an indented block (line 2)
> Like the error says, you need some indentation after the '...'
> 
>> >>> while b < 10:
>>        print b
>>        a, b = b, a+b ...
>>        
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> What happened to your indent prompt?!?!
> 
>> >>> while b < 1000:
>> ...     print b,
>> IndentationError: expected an indented block (line 2)
> Not sure why you got an indentation error, but you should not have the
> comma after the 'print b' again.
> 
>> >>> while b < 1000:
>>   ...  print b,
>>   
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> no comma, again.
> 
> 
> Neil Macneale
> 

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From jafo at tummy.com  Fri Aug 31 01:50:29 2001
From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:50:29 -0600
Subject: Python 2.1.1-3 RPMs updated with LFS
Message-ID: <20010830235029.A19626@tummy.com>

Guido has put up my RPMs for Python 2.1.1 (thanks) at:

   http://www.python.org/2.1.1/rpms.html

This includes Large File Support which enables the writing of files larger
than 2GB.  This also works around the problem with the interpreter exiting
when a file reaches 2GB.

Included above are links to the SRPM (which includes tunable entries at the
top of the .spec file.  Also included are binary RPMs built against RedHat
7.1.

To build binaries for your specific system, download the .src.rpm and do
"rpm --rebuild python2-2.1.1-3.src.rpm", or install it and modify the
settings in the .spec file, then rebuild with "rpm -ba python-2.1.spec".

Enjoy,
Sean
-- 
 Today's robots are very primitive, capable of understanding only a few simple
 instructions such as 'go left', 'go right', and 'build car'.  -- John Sladek
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From Hans.Brand at BrandInnovators.com  Fri Aug  3 09:37:07 2001
From: Hans.Brand at BrandInnovators.com (Hans Brand)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:37:07 +0200
Subject: struct.unpack null-terminated string
References: <mailman.996832925.27921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ke9dj$29cl9$1@reader02.wxs.nl>

Hi,

Quoted from the "Python Library Reference", "4.3 struct -- Interpret strings
as packed binary data":

"For the "s" format character, the count is interpreted as the size of the
string, not a repeat count like for the other format characters; e.g. '10s'
means a single 10-byte string, while '10c' means 10 characters. For packing,
the string is truncated or padded with null bytes as appropriate to make it
fit. For unpacking, the resulting string always has exactly the specified
number of bytes. As a special case, '0s' means a single, empty string (while
'0c' means 0 characters)."

So, the 'fmt' string defines the length of the containing string, not the
(if any) terminating null.

HTH, Hans

"Xavier Defrang" <xavier at perceval.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.996832925.27921.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hello,
>
> How do I unpack a null-terminated string with the struct module?  I
> couldn't find it in the lib reference... maybe do i have to upgrade my
> glasses?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Xavier Defrang
> Perceval R&D Team
> xavier at perceval.net
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>  Perceval Technologies SA/NV  Tel: +32-2-6409194
>  Rue Tenbosch, 9              Fax: +32-2-6403154
>  B-1000 Brussels         http://www.perceval.net
>  BELGIUM                       info at perceval.net
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>




From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 14 11:23:20 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:23:20 -0700
Subject: Reliable servers (was Re: assignment to __class__)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9lbfp8$79l$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9l9d4k02opd at enews4.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Yes, but, when servers DO have to stay up, fixing them on the fly,
>albeit indeed fragile, is a specified constraint.  I guess in some cases
>one could devise alternate strategies: putting up a new fixed server
>process on a different machine, port-redirecting all new requests to
>the new machine, and finally pulling down the old buggy server when
>the conversations for the requests it was serving at fix-time are gone.
>
>But that constrains your deployment possibilities enormously, and it
>has its own huge fragilities (e.g., the server must be architected so
>that multiple instances, old and new, can update the same database
>without tripping on each other's feet -- just for starters).

After spending 1.5 years on a medium-sized project (roughly 50K lines of
mostly Python code), I've come to the conclusion that if your server
architecture is designed for only one server instance, there's something
wrong with the architecture.  That goes triple or quadruple if 100%
uptime is a stated goal.  We got bit several times because we violated
that in our initial design, and most of our 2.0 work was fixing that.

Fortunately, the one truly uptime-critical part of our application *was*
initially designed to have multiple servers, and for precisely that
reason.

Patching running code is just so ... so ... mainframe.  ;-)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

Internet $tartup$: Arbeit ueber alles  


From myemail at any.where.com  Wed Aug 15 13:36:18 2001
From: myemail at any.where.com (myemail at any.where.com)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 17:36:18 GMT
Subject: HKPOWER.COM
Message-ID: <9lebui$4b88294@rain.i-cable.com>

HKPOWER.COM?O?@???j???????X????,?????j?a?h?h????!
http://www.hkpower.com
http://casino.hkpower.com
http://webhost.hkpower.com




From r.borkent at 123chello.nl  Thu Aug 23 12:16:32 2001
From: r.borkent at 123chello.nl (RonB)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:16:32 GMT
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
Message-ID: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper>

I installed pysol, a cardgame, but when I try to run it I get this error 
message: RuntimeError: Bad magic number in .pyc file   I installed it 
straight from the suse cd (rpm file) and there where no dependency problems.
I dont get what's going wrong here and my girlfriend realy wants to play 
solitaire on linux (and isn't to impressed with kpatience)

KDE2.2 Suse 7.1 

Thnx

RB


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Thu Aug 30 16:44:27 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:44:27 GMT
Subject: Python URLLIB
References: <1b9aff84.0108300817.757d9ad5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7zl2s7n.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

/ claysjunkmail at yahoo.com (Clayton Brown - Emmie Osawa) wrote:
| Is it possible to read / write cookies using URLLIB function...
| Or is there a library which makes use of HTTPLIB to provide URLLIB + HEaders?
| 
| Emmie Osawa

I have a http&co. implementation that does cookies and so on, look at:
        http://flognat.myip.org/hacks/

included in yah.tgz

        /Andy

-- 
 The eye of the beholder rests on the beauty!


From vdkamp at inter.nl.net  Fri Aug 24 10:24:27 2001
From: vdkamp at inter.nl.net (Peter van der Kamp)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 14:24:27 GMT
Subject: zlib problems with Python 2.0
References: <mailman.998334303.18355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <LGBX1rs21rjs-pn2-vF01Bbwo4l6o@1Cust225.tnt17.rtm1.nl.uu.net>

Hello,

> Another thought just occurred to me - you should be opening the files in
> binary mode: 'wb' for write and 'rb' for read.

Thanks to answers on this group I was able to solve
the zlib problems with Python 2.0. Two things
contributed to the problem.
First, I didn't open the file to which I wrote the
compressed chunks of text in binary mode. Before
posting the problem I had tried the
binary mode but without success and that's were the
second reason appears.
After writing a chunk of compressed text I added the
length of this chunk + 1 to the variable containing
the start position, thus obtaining the start position of the
next chunk (I need the start position for retrieval
purposes). Adding the extra 1 proved to be wrong.
Adding the length only was OK. Everything now works as expected.

Peter van der Kamp


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 07:28:31 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:28:31 -0400
Subject: dynamic-on-demand classes Re: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:55:43 +0400."
             <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130048330.4209-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130048330.4209-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
Message-ID: <200108131128.HAA17604@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> The thought is simple: let all classes be static UNTIL operation is
> requested which need them to be dynamic. Then, __dynamic__ attribute
> appears = 1 and everybody is happy: those, who want to sacrifice
> speed for flexibility just let that operations happen. Those who use
> static classes just have them.

I wish it were so easy.  Consider this example:

    class C(object):
	def meth(self): return "hello world"

    class D(C):
	pass

    x = D()

    C.meth = lambda: "goodbye world"

    print x.meth()

Obviously you want this to print "goodbye world".  In order to do
this, the implementation must know that if C becomes a dynamic class
(by the assignment to C.meth), it must also make D (and all other
classes derived from C) dynamic.  This would require C to keep track
of all its derived classes.  That's not easy: it would require the use
of weak references.

Your proposal would also make it impossible to implement instances of
static classes different than instances of dynamic classes.  For a
static class, compile-time analysis (well, at least
class-definition-time analysis) can determine the exact set of
instance variables used by the methods defined by the class, and this
can be used to allocate the instance variables more efficiently than
using a dictionary.  But this can only be done when we know the class
will remain static over its lifetime.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 10 01:09:43 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 22:09:43 -0700
Subject: namespace confusion
References: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9kvqan$a02$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B7135E2.40701 at herts.ac.uk>,
Mark Robinson  <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>from first import *
>from second import *

Don't use statements of the form "from foo import *".  It will cause you
much pain in debugging later.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug  3 03:07:10 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:07:10 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996737344.3078.python-list@python.org> <3b695793.2250764@nntp.sprynet.com> <3Hea7.17979$9i1.1380804@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b6a2d0f.1127747895@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:55:02 -0400, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>What has not so far been explicitly stated (although several posts have
>implied it) is that complex numbers are in fact points on a two-dimensional
>plane. If we choose to represent those points as distances along two
>orthogonal axes then the concept of exactness might be said to have some
>meaning for the points at the intersections of two integral values. But if
>we choose to represent an "exact" complex number (by the previous
>definition) in polar coordinates (angle & magnitude) then the same complex
>number would become inexact. Even though there is a strict mathematical
>relationship between polar and orthogonal representations (which is many to
>one, BTW), the transformations would render exactness a less than useful
>concept. A similarly "exact" polar representation would become inexact in
>orthogonal representations.
>
>Hence I now believe exactness is not useful for complex values. Not that it
>couldn't be implemented if somebody perverse enough chose to. Simply that it
>wouldn't be useful.
>
I am perverse enough to think it could be useful, but maybe not perverse
enough to implement it ;-)

My thought is that what the computer can usefully tell us about exactness
is how well it succeeds in preserving it through some operation(s). It needs
to be told that the inputs are exact, but it can tell us whether the result
is exact. Programmed operations are always on representations, resulting in
representations, obviously.

Representation in polar or cartesian form would lose exactness through
different operations, but e.g., multiplying by (2+0j) could presumably
be exact either way. Either way you'd have a pair of numbers, but the
operations on the components would be different, though related in result
through the point they identify (identify differently, which I guess was
Greg's first point, though the rest was about other uses of number pairs,
which was beside the point w.r.t. the uses of having accurate representations
for the numbers *in* number pairs representing complex values, whichever
kind of pair it might be).

If angles were represented as rational coefficients for pi radians instead
of one radian, a fair number of angles could be represented exactly.

The criterion for exactness here would be that operating on the finite-precision
representations of the inputs would result in a finite-precision output equal
in mathematical value to what would have been the case if all the representations
had been infinite precision. If there are two components to the representation,
then the criterion applies to each separately.

This would require two separate representations of complex, both in literals and
internally, and conversions between could only be exact in a few trivial cases.

You would want exactness attributes for both components in either representation,
I think. Sometimes a conversion could produce one exact component, which if carried
as such might be the one of most interest in the end. E.g., sin(pi/6) = 1/2 exactly.
Of course, you'd have to be pretty perverse and check exact lookups for some of these
before sending them through IEEE754 functions ;-)

I've never done anything with exact complex numbers, so I don't know how it could
really be used. I guess you could say the angles in an FFT are implicitly exact,
but I don't know how you could do the whole thing exactly, except maybe a trivial case.

IIRC, Henry Baker(?) wrote something about exact integer cartesian-represented complex
in some ACM SIG article, but I don't remember much more than that.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 05:50:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:50:22 +0200
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
References: <MPG.15de957b96d43b0e989691@rider>
Message-ID: <9l2ve50fso@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Surial" <surial at crosswinds.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.15de957b96d43b0e989691 at rider...
> In java, you have 2 features which AFAIK are not available in Python,
> which I always assumed to be required for sandboxing:
>
> 'final':
>
> If you can't mark things as final, you can subclass a class, pass it

Except that restricted-execution code can't necessarily get at
the classes it might like to subclass.

> 'private':
>
> take the entire above argument  and adapt it to the fact that
> if nothing is truly private, I can change things anyway.

Bastion lets you totally hide whatever you want from untrusted
code.

In both cases, the key is that introspection facilities of
code subject to restricted execution are limited.


Alex





From printers at sendme.cz  Thu Aug 30 08:03:00 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:03:00 +0200
Subject: Is Python powerful enough for this?
Message-ID: <3B8E4794.9988.1181E6F@localhost>

Hi,
I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input 
fields and also some hidden fields. 
How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
like
Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3

For example:
I have a following web page
<html>

<head>
</head>
<body>
<form method="POST" action="c.cgi">
  <p><input type="text" name="T1" size="20"></p>
  <p><input type="checkbox" name="C1" value="ON"></p>
  <p><textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="20"></textarea></p>
  <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" name="B1"><input 
type="reset" value="Reset" name="B2"></p>
</form>
</body>
</html>

>From the above 
I would like to receive 
T1=&S1=&C1=&B1=Submit


Thank you for help.
Ladislav



From jaif at mindspring.com  Mon Aug 20 10:34:23 2001
From: jaif at mindspring.com (Jeff Cohen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:34:23 -0400
Subject: Lists into lists
Message-ID: <9lr75f$njd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

I'm just learning python, so sorry if this is obvious but I didn't see it in
the book or a few tutorials I found.

I want to insert a copy of a list into a list like so:

>>x=[1,2,3]
>>y=[4,5,6]
>> Magic step goes here
>>x
[[4,5,6],1,2,3]

Now, I did this with

>>x.insert(0,y)

However, when I manipulate y, I end up changing x as well.

With

>>x[:0]=y
>>x
[4,5,6,1,2,3]

Which isn't exactly it either.

Any help there?




From parker at gol.com  Tue Aug 14 10:04:57 2001
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:04:57 GMT
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org>
 <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com>
 <mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YTzPNDAvATe7EwXf@gol.com>

In article <mailman.997716022.20626.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
>
>    Ian> Clearly there'll be an effective tool to identify likely areas of
>    Ian> concern, but I hope it won't generate too many false-positives (if
>    Ian> that's the correct way round) and zero of whatever the opposite is.
>
>I posted this once.  Maybe once again will be sufficient... ;-)
>
>    import tokenize
>    import sys
>
>    class TokenSorter:
>        def __init__(self, f):
>            self.tokens = {}
>            self.filename = f
>            self.line = ""
>            self.linenumber = 0
>            self.lastprinted = 0
>
>        def tokeneater(self, typ, val, (sr, sc), (er, ec), line):
>            if self.line != line:
>                self.linenumber += 1
>                self.line = line
>            if (tokenize.tok_name[typ] == "OP" and
>                val == "/" and
>                self.lastprinted != self.linenumber):
>                print "%s(%d): %s" % (self.filename, self.linenumber,
>                                       line.rstrip())
>                self.lastprinted = self.linenumber
>
>    def main():
>        for fn in sys.argv[1:]:
>            try:
>                f = open(fn)
>            except IOError:
>                pass
>            else:
>                ts = TokenSorter(fn)
>                try:
>                    tokenize.tokenize(f.readline, ts.tokeneater)
>                except tokenize.TokenError:
>                    pass
>
>    if __name__ == "__main__":
>        main()
>
>Run it like
>
>    python finddiv.py *.py
>
>Output looks like
>
>    searches.py(23):     print "passed: %d, failed: %d, pass ratio: %.3f" % (p, 
>f, float(p)/(p+f))
>    searches.py(27):         print "%.3f queries per second" % ((p+f)/t)
>    velocity.py(1): x = 1/2
>    velocity.py(4):     return x/t
>
>so you can easily step through the results with Emacs's next-error command.
>

Thanks Skip- what an excellent piece of code. I'd imagine it'd need to
be put in the FAQ and still posted several more times.  

With script plus a little surrounding verbiage, my possibly affected 13
of 19 files scanned came up as:

"19 .py files scanned, 4 affected with 9 instances of the division
operator."

Now that is much more reasonable, but it is still almost 25% of the
modules, and I still, if I understand correctly, need to decide which
ones should be integer division.  

For a large project, that might amount to a significant amount of work:
checking, fixing, testing, regression testing, UAT, change control and
releasing.  

Of course, I was brought up on the idea of integer division giving an
integer result, so perhaps I use it rather freely in my code.  Looking
at some other packages, I see less than 10% of files containing the
operator, but even that still implies substantial work for someone.

Regards

Ian
-- 
Ian Parker


From dougfort at dougfort.net  Sun Aug  5 14:44:43 2001
From: dougfort at dougfort.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 19:44:43 +0100
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
References: <mailman.997031828.13957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6d9419_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> On 5 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:
> 
>>>From SlashDot: http://www.a-i.com/challenge/. A contest for developing
>>game-playing bots. I really want to write intelligent agents in Python,
>>and this sounds like an interesting exercise.
>>
>>IMHO the extreme flexibility of data structures and procedures makes
>>Python a superb language for AI (whatever that is)
> 
> To be good for AI, language must have logic programming support.
> (I wonder if Guido thinks in this direction 'cause this requires adding
> new keywords ;-)
> 
> Anyway, it could be nice to see some logic-programming aids
> for Python. It could save stalled Catalog-SIG and help with
> Distutils and other logic/knowledge-base/AI intensive tasks.
> 
> It is already possible to express assertions/predicates using
> Python data-structures, but the solver engine comparable to
> Prolog is to be written. Or, yes, Python needs larger
> sys.getrecursionlimit() for such tasks...
> 
> So, it will be interesting to see such results!
> 
> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

I'm not convinced that logic programming == AI. I'm more of a bottom-up 
genetic algorithm fan myself. 

The term 'AI' carries so much emotional baggage now that it sets people 
(including me) off on their prepared rants rather than stimulating thought.

I think we can use Python to get computers to do 'cool stuff'. Cool Python 
Stuff doesn't need to look like Prolog or Haskell or Icon. I think this 
Learning Machine Challenge is a chance to do some cool stuff. I, for one, 
intend to approach it without the constraints of academic AI. If you have 
the time, I hope you can do some cool stuff too (by your own definition of 
cool).
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sat Aug  4 18:50:23 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 04 Aug 2001 22:50:23 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net> <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90F3BFBB9CBFDgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>

"Chris Tavares" wrote: 

 
> Really? I don't have the docs handy right now, but I distinctly
> remember there being a specific exception in the Bison license to deal
> with this exact problem - you're allowed to use the Bison generated
> code & parser engine in whatever you want, no GPL restrictions apply.
> Unless the license has changed in the last five years, anyway.

According to the 1995 edition of lex & yacc 'Parsers generated with bison 
are subject to the GNU "copyleft" software license ... If you plan to use 
bison to develop a program distributed to tohers, be sure to check the file 
COPYING included in the bison distribution to see if you agree to the 
terms.'

Unless the license has changed in the last six years, anyway.

- Gordon


From jdries at mail.com  Thu Aug  2 16:14:01 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:14:01 +0100
Subject: mod_python, apache and win32:
References: <dZ5a7.6024$kg.339481@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B69B489.9EC2C123@mail.com>

Xione Wrent wrote:
> I installed the mod_python files, the ones from mod_python-2.7.4.tgz in my
> Python "Lib" directory under "Lib/mod_python-2.7.4". Then, I took the files
> that were in "Lib/mod_python-2.7.4/lib/mod_python/" and moved them up to
> just "Lib/mod_python-2.7.4", in accordance with the instructions.

In my case, I just copied it to "Lib/mod_python", i.e. without the
version number. That could be your problem.

> 
> I put the mod_python.dll file in my "Apached/modules" directory, and added
> "LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.dll" in my DSO section under
> httpd.conf.

Looks OK to me.

> I think this is where I'm messing up, but I don't know. Where do I put this,
> according to these instuctions?
> 
>    Add the following lines in the section ScriptAlias and CGI of the
> httpd.conf:
> 
>    <Directory "<Your Document Root>">
>       AddHandler python-program .py
>       PythonHandler mptest
>       PythonDebug on
>    </Directory>
> 
> I don't know exactly where it's talking about.

I use a slightly different configuration:

<Location /psp>
    SetHandler python-program
    PythonHandler mod_python.modpythonhandler
    PythonDebug on
    Allow from all
</Location>

The difference is that in my case, mod_python is triggered whenever
there's a "psp" in your URL, as in "http://localhost/psp/whatever". In
my handler I then use the "whatever" part to determine the python
program to execute.

You need a piece of python code (in a file "modpythonhandler.py" in your
directory "Lib\mod_python") that looks like this:


from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
    req.send_http_header()
    req.write("<html><body>Hello World!</body></html>")
    return apache.OK


This is the simplest handler, but enough to get things running. Once it
displays "Hello world" in your browser, you can add complexity at will.
The handler code gets executed whenever you point your browser to a url
that has /psp in it 

> Could anyone who has mod_python working under Win32 share with me their
> configuration? I'd be glad to repay you with hugs!

The above works for me. I hope it is of some help to you.

Regards,
Jan



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Aug  8 11:23:56 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:23:56 -0700
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>

Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:

>         You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was
> modal.
> Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get
> syntax
> highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What
> more
> could you want?

So use it if you like it.  No one's forcing you.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Not bad from a girl from the gutter like me
\__/ Kina
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 19:06:13 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:06:13 +0100
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com> <G0RgKIAEUAd7Ew$e@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <1uYc7.13554$e5.1922661@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <xipNPKAljGd7Ew5V@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <1uYc7.13554$e5.1922661 at newsb.telia.net>, Fredrik Lundh
<fredrik at pythonware.com> writes
>> >>Has anyone managed to use PIL and win32com to do screen captures?
>
>get grabscreen.zip from
>
>    http://effbot.org/pil
>
></F>
/ta F-Bot I'll check it out
-robotically yrs- 
Robin Becker


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 17 19:12:37 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:12:37 -0500
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <3b7d5148_1@Usenet.com>
References: <3b7d5148_1@Usenet.com>
Message-ID: <15229.42213.532041.408065@beluga.mojam.com>

    tom> PySpy does run-time visualization and analysis of Python software.
    ...
    tom> Warning in advance - currently this only runs on Windows.

Looks very interesting.  Is there anything that makes it fundamentally
Windows-specific?  

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Aug 25 19:34:53 2001
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:34:53 -0700
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com> <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet> <3B882E32.41643FEB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-32C16C.16345325082001@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3B882E32.41643FEB at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> I agree indentation should definitely be every four characters.  
> I don't think I've ever seen real, non-trivial code which was 
> indented eight characters, and I would have reindented it if I had.

The Mac Python IDE seems to use 8 chars as the default.
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From johncwhi at mindspring.com  Thu Aug 16 22:31:33 2001
From: johncwhi at mindspring.com (John Whittaker)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:31:33 -0500
Subject: weird behavior with ftp.connect on Windoze
Message-ID: <9lhvnd$mp4$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've done much Python programming, so my question
may be due to language rustiness, but I think something weird is actually
happening.  At my work we had some summer interns whom we used to write some
of the tools that the rest of us didn't have time to write.  I convinced my
intern to write a tool in Python which checked the availability of a
hardware test platform which we use to test and debug some of our target
code.  It's a Motorola Sandpoint platform, if you're interested.

Our proprietary target OS running on the Sandpoint implements a TCP/IP stack
and supports ftp and telnet.  These are the primary means of communicating
with it from other computers.   His tool was supposed to check whether any
other users had "grabbed" the Sandpoint for testing/debugging by trying to
initiate an ftp transfer to it and querying for some specific information.
The fatal problem in this approach, as we have found out, is that when
another user has indeed "grabbed" the Sandpoint for testing/debugging, that
user will have an ftp session in progress.

When we use Python's ftplib to try to establish an ftp session when another
user has an ftp session already in progress, Python hangs.  I don't think
this is Python's fault, however.   If we simply run Windoze ftp, and try to
do the same thing, it also hangs.  I'm not really sure what is the root
cause of the problem, but I wonder if our proprietary OS simply can't handle
multiple ftp sessions at once.  I've tried to do some basic debugging from
the PythonWin debugger, and it appears that things hang at the point where
Python tries to do a socket.connect.   If my reading of the Python code is
correct, the socket.connect uses the facilities of Windows sockets
(?Winsock2?).  If that's where it hangs, it probably also explains why the
Windoze ftp program hangs.

So, is there any way around this problem?  I first thought I could put the
ftp connect code into its own thread, and give the thread 10-20 seconds to
connect, otherwise kill the thread.   The Python threads module doesn't seem
to allow for killing off a thread, though.  Would MFC threads provided by
PythonWin be an alternative?  Or is there perhaps some souped up version of
the Winsock dll that provides timeouts?

We're using Python 2.1  (ActiveState Python) running under Windows NT 4.0.

Any ideas would be welcome.

BTW, I can't keep up with this newsgroup anymore.  It's just too big.

TIA,

John Whittaker




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sat Aug 11 11:21:35 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:21:35 -0500
Subject: [Package] FontTools: a font manipulation library
Message-ID: <008f01c12279$5017aa80$0101010a@local>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Gonnerman" <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net>

> It works PERFECTLY except for VRFY requests.

Well, it seems I lied.  The postmaster account doesn't work.  I have
contacted the website hosting provider, and perhaps they can resolve
it for me.  I pay them enough... :-(






From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Sun Aug 26 09:36:25 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:36:25 -0400
Subject: get the output of a cmd via popen2
In-Reply-To: <998796476.603.46274.l6@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B88C319.23444.2C61CF6@localhost>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote, in part:
> I have a command which I want to run from a Python script and I want
> to capture the output. So I do,
> 
> i,o = os.popen2(cmd)
> 
> where cmd is the string that represents the command. But on printing o
> all I get is an object representation like: 
> 
> <open file '(fdopen)', mode 'r' at 0x810d9f8>

'i' and 'o' are like file objects. You need to write and read them 
respectively, like so:

>>> import os
>>> i, o = os . popen2 ( 'ver' ) # 'ver' returns OS version
>>> print o . read ( ) # read everything from 'o' and print it

Windows 95. [Version 4.00.1111]




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 05:05:30 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:05:30 +0200
Subject: Windows Script Host name space question
References: <d4baf6cc.0108201355.2e7e32bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lt88q01jua@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Ben Derstine" <bend at ecollege.com> wrote in message
news:d4baf6cc.0108201355.2e7e32bd at posting.google.com...
> Can someone provide me an example of how I'd use the VBS function
> Weekday from a .pys script (or any VBS built in function for that
> matter.) The only function I now how to use in a .pys is WScript.Echo.

You can use any other attribute of WScript, of course (as well
as any Python built-in function, and any function in modules
you import from Python).

>  When using Weekday in a .vbs file I simply put
>
> Wscript.Echo Weekday(#8/10/2001#)
>
> and it works.  If I try the same thing in the .pys file I get a name
> error on Weekday.  It must be sort of simple name space issue but I
> can't find any documentation on how to make the connection. Thanks,

Weekday is a VBScript function, and I don't know whether it's
exported to other languages at all; I think you can't use VBScript
functions from Python any more than you could use Python functions
from VBScript, unless you explicitly build components in one
language that expose whatever functions you need via COM.


Alex





From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Tue Aug 21 11:53:27 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:53:27 +0200
Subject: Killing httpserver-thread on gui quit
References: <11aed8f9.0108210549.4e617422@posting.google.com> <kusnela1wg.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3B8283F7.16DAB590@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi!

> > thread1 = threading.Thread( target=httpd.serve_forever() )
> if you don't want to serve forever, don't call serve_forever ;)

Rarely has a programming language been this readable! ;-)

Dietmar


From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 15:26:53 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:26:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301307280.30302-100000@bms>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301523120.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Bruce Sass wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gerson Kurz wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:21:56 -0700, "Formalin"
> > <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote:
> >
> > >Is there any editor support python?
> > I personally like SciTE best. Its Open Source. Its available for both
> > Win32 and Linux (GNOME based). It supports many programming languages.
> > Its available here:
>
> Hmmm...
>
> ~$ dpkg -s scite
> Package: scite
> Status: install ok installed
> Priority: optional
> Section: editors
> Installed-Size: 833
> Maintainer: Aubin Paul <aubin at debian.org>
> Version: 1.38-3
> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.3-7), libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0), libgtk1.2 (>=
> 1.2.10-1), libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2, xlibs (>> 4.0.3)
> Description: Lightweight GTK-based Programming Editor
>  GTK-based Programming with with syntax highlighting support for
>  many languages. Also supports folding sections, exporting
>  highlighted text into colored HTML and RTF.
>
> ...scite does not depend on any Gnome libs.
>
> Too bad GTK is butt ugly (runs for cover :)
>
>
> - Bruce

I think maybe Gerson meant GTK+ instead og GNOME. Funny that it would need
xlibs though...

Oh, and YOUR GTK+ theme may be ugly, but MINE isn't :P

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Aug 25 01:32:30 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:32:30 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998679338.16044.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <toee0udndm2ad9@news.supernews.com>

"Jesse F. W" <jessefw at loop.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998679338.16044.python-list at python.org...
> Dear Python-list-iners,
> I have another Testing related question.  How are unit tests done
> when the units to be tested get lots of information from nested
> objects, e.g. (in a method of a class to be tested):
> if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop':
> how would this be tested?

> Should you simulate the parts of the app object that are needed?
> In that case, you have to update the tests when you use parts of the
> app object you did not use before.  Should you use a real app
> object?  Then you are not really doing _unit_ testing, and it would
> make running detailed tests very difficult?  Is there another solution
> that anyone knows about?

That's part of "Design for Testing." The short answer is that
if the object you are testing needs an infrastructure, you have to supply
it.
It's preferable to supply the "real" infrastructure from the project, but
sometimes it isn't feasible.

If your class needs a player object for it to make sense, then you need
to supply such an object, properly updated. FREX - a project I'm
working on needs a date to start a fairly involved astronomical
calculation. I need to supply a properly initialized date object, or it
won't work.

Designing for test suggests that my date object be fully tested first,
then it can simply be used as a component in later tests. It also
suggests that I keep the dependencies as simple as possible. My date
object, in certain circumstances, needs a place object to determine
the time zone, which in turn needs a time zone change atlas to determine
which time variation applied. For higher level tests, I therefore always
specify GMT, which doesn't need the location information. I'm not,
after all, testing the date object, simply using it.

If you're having trouble, I'd suggest that you look at the design with
the question "how am I going to test this?" in mind. You may want to
refactor some of it.

John Roth

> Thank you all for your time,
> Jesse W
>




From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 13 11:23:30 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:23:30 GMT
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q2sfnt4052lvehf38fcanevgnllb1r3s5r@4ax.com>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:29:53 +0000, "Learn Python"
<learnpython at hotmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.997687902.6272.python-list at python.org>:

:Am so confused???
:the docs were OK. There does'nt seem to be a book on it either :-(
:Then can anyone answer the above question:
:"Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"

In addition to the comments by Hans Nowak, let me point out that Tkinter
runs on every platform that Python runs on, whereas wxPython does not.

I tried making this decision a few months ago, myself. When I started
reading Programming Python, 2nd ed., the decision was pretty much made
for me. The book has many, many examples with Tkinter and they seem to
work very well. For me, having a book to explain things is really
necessary. Maybe I'll work with wxPython at some point in the future,
but for now there is not enough information on it to get me over the
learning hurdle.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From cimarron+google at taylors.org  Wed Aug 15 13:11:28 2001
From: cimarron+google at taylors.org (Cimarron Taylor)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:11:28 -0700
Subject: efficient in-place byte modifications
Message-ID: <29e28c51.0108150911.28f315ff@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm looking into using python to prototype a program
which will read, process and retransmit network packets
using a simple pair threads and a pool of packet buffers.

At first glance, it seems Python has all the networking 
and threading operations I need.  The thing is, I need to 
do a lot of separate in-place modifications of the contents 
of the packets, so using (immutable) strings for packets 
probably won't work.

I think my remaining options are to:

1. use the array module for the buffers
2. figure out how to use the "coming-soon" buffer object
   and the readinto call
3. code the buffers in C and wrap accordingly
4. do something else (use tuples?)

I'd like to ask the members of this list a more general
question: what is the right Python object to use for a 
system which needs to support efficient storage and modifcation 
of the contents of lots of relatively small objects.

I suspect everyone is going to tell me to do #3 but I'd 
rather code everything in Python if possible.

Thank you,

Cimarron Taylor


From Pekka.Pessi at iki.fi  Thu Aug  9 09:37:19 2001
From: Pekka.Pessi at iki.fi (Pekka Pessi)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 16:37:19 +0300
Subject: Sockets question
References: <mailman.997349655.23903.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pvhevhxskw.fsf@agni.research.nokia.com>

In message <mailman.997349655.23903.python-list at python.org> "frank booth" <killingjoke at mail.com> writes:
>I'm sending something through a TCP socket, then closing it, then my
>python script exits.

>For some reason, from time to time (and not on all machines) the remote
>end doesn't always get the data.

>I thought close() is supposed to terminate the connection gracefully so
>it should be OK, but its not.

>Maybe when the script exits the connection dies at once? 

	Are you using MSWindows? When using MSWindows, the close() to
	socket object actually makes a winsock shutdown(2) call.  The
	socket is destroyed (by calling winsock close()) when the
	application exits.  Most MS TCP implementations simply destroy
	the TCP PCB and discard the buffered unsent data when the socket
	is destroyed.  SO_LINGER, as mentioned by another poster, may
	help.

							Pekka


From ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 00:42:14 2001
From: ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 21:42:14 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <112e9d13.0108022042.71bec185@posting.google.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:<23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa at posting.google.com>...
> Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message news:<3dofpzk3vq.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
> > ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) writes:
> > > The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
> > > substitutions. These include ZPT, Ehydra and others. There is a *ML
> > > like kit for Webware, but I don't think any serious time was put into
> > > it, hence it is hard to recommend (for Webware).
> 
> You might be referring to my package, which I would like to develop
> further if I only had the time. I get the feeling that it's too
> different from what people expect in a template system, though.

Actually I was referring to "TALKit" which I think was an attempt to
have something like ZPT for Webware. (I think.)

I actually forgot that XMLForms could be used for templating, which
you pointed out earlier, and hence, wasn't thinking of it. I suppose
the name throws me off.


> > I've become quite fond of PTL's Python-based syntax.  Here's an
> > explanation of why (quoting from a not-yet-public article):
> > 
> >         This syntax is quite different from most HTML templating
> >         languages, which usually look like HTML with magical
> >         delimiters (e.g. <%...%>, <?...?>, <!--#... -->) sprinkled
> 
> Horrible, isn't it? ;-)

In Cheetah, the only escape code for substitution is $. The only code
for directives like "if" and "for" is #. Therefore, Cheetah doesn't
suffer from the problem that PTL is solving (for ASP, JSP, PHP, etc.)


> What would be interesting is a template environment where one can
> visualise the final form of the template and interact with it, without
> having to go through stages of rebuilding and refreshing it, along
> with the potential of the document "breaking" and requiring low-level
> intervention.

A GUI IDE for Templates? Interesting.

 
> I thought that W3C's Amaya might lend itself to such applications, but
> that just has to be added to my list of things that I would like to do
> if I only had the time.

Hey, I've got one of those too!

;-)


-Chuck


From dalke at acm.org  Tue Aug 14 07:05:00 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:05:00 +0100
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lbpcg$h5q$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Guido:
>No, in the new system, __getattr__ is called for all attributes.  See
>my response to Roman.

I hadn't noticed this __getattr__ change on my previous readings.

I confess I couldn't find that response - perhaps my newsserver
dropped it?  But I do see a post of yours with no attribution of
who you are responding to, which says:

> new-style classes allow you to
> overload __getattr__ for all attribute accesses -- classic classes
> only call __getattr__ when "normal" attribute access fails, which is
> less flexible.

I want to point out that the current ("old-style") behaviour is
very usful for caching results.  I have written several classes
of the form

class Obj:
  def __getattr__(self, name):
    if name == "prop1":
        compute prop1
        self.prop1 = prop1
        return prop1
    elif name == "prop2":
       ...
    raise AttributeError(name)

For example, one is a system where the "compute prop" calls a
C function, and another version talks to a database to get the
requested information.

In both cases, I liked the simplicity of implementation and the
fact that once cached there is no performance loss.

With the new-style __getattr__ this means the code will be
slightly more complicated, as in

  def __getattr__(self, name):
    if name in self.__dict__:
      return self.__dict__[name]
    ... code as usual ...

and definitely slower.

Yes, I am concerned about the performance.  Instead of using
__getattr__/__setattr__ to mimic attribute lookup I could also
have done C++/Java style accessor methods

  def getProp1(self):
     ...
  def setProp1(self):
     ...

I happen to think accessor functions look ugly - things that
are attributes should look like attributes.  I've been able to
argue against them because __*attr__ exists partially because I
can say "and the results can be cached with no performance loss."
But now it appears that getProp1()/setProp1() methods will never
be slower than __getattr__, so I will only have an esthetic
argument to justify my preference.

I do understand that not having a __getattr__ hook for all attribute
lookups is less flexible.  I just not that I've much more often
used this caching lookup ability than needed that flexibility.  In
fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a case where I have needed more
flexibility.

>I'd like to see which is more common -- the need to change __class__
>or the need to inherit from a built-in type.  I'm betting the latter,
>by a large amount.

I've derived from UserList and UserDict, many more times then I've
changed __class__.  I've also derived from them many more than I've
used the dis, netrc, or mailcap modules, or used complex numbers
or unicode, or specified a PYTHONSTARTUP variable for interactive use.
Should those features also be removed?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug  7 12:13:53 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:13:53 +0100
Subject: Zope python paths
In-Reply-To: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197DC7@exchange>
References: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197DC7@exchange>
Message-ID: <dlh2OIABPBc7EwEW@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In message <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197DC7 at exchange>, Max M?ller
Rasmussen <maxm at normik.dk> writes
>Just use the direct path to the Python embedded in your Zope, like this:
>
>c:\zope24\bin\python c:\zope24\z2.py
>
>And it will use the correct version of Python for you.
>
>regards Max M
>
...
that is how it is being run and it gives the wrong path.
-- 
Robin Becker



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 23:08:39 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:08:39 -0500
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <20010829151706.A27274@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus>
        <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>
        <20010828205936.A25413@pulp>
        <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com>
        <20010829151706.A27274@pulp>
Message-ID: <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Sounds like something's fishy in your os module.
    ...
    Brandon> No, the module is unmodified and does contain the
    Brandon> AttributeError clause... but for some reason, it doesn't match
    Brandon> the AttributeError exception that is thrown.  If I replace it
    Brandon> with just except: to catch all exceptions, it passes until
    Brandon> further down where something else in os.py expects an
    Brandon> exception.

This sounds very odd.  If you print out sys.exc_info() inside the except:
clause what do you see as an error?  Is there anything unusual about your
install?  Does "make test" from your build directory run pretty cleanly?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Fri Aug 24 17:44:12 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 21:44:12 GMT
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
References: <Xw9h7.10076$x84.2967046@ruti.visi.com> <9m4o38$hl1$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <3b867235.215559958@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <9m6hrc$f0a$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Mats Wichmann <mats at laplaza.org> wrote:
> On 24 Aug 2001 05:18:32 GMT, boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
> wrote:

> I believe Boudewijn is in the best position (outside TrollTech) to
> comment, he seems to have been working on this /forever/.

:-) - it was such a nice break when I was able to spend a week or so
on investigating microthreads, instead of thinking about GUI's. The
result will be up at InformIT at 9/10.

> :You cannot use your app in a commercial setting yourself, but
> :people who download it can.  --

> Now there's a nice confusing restriction.

It's caused by the fact that the people at TrollTech have some
difficulty wrapping their minds around the existence of a complete
Python binding of Qt - hacking Python source is so much easier than
hacking C++ source, that a lot of restrictions just don't make sense
anymore.

Imagine the following situation. I develop Kura, a nice, GPL'd
application for professional linguists. Not having been paid for
linguistic work since I was a student, I can distribute and hack
kura using the non-commercial Windows Qt. (Actually I'm using Linux,
and my last Windows-bearing hard-disk crashed a few weeks ago, but
that's not material.) 

If some professional linguist downloads Kura, he can use it in the
course of his work - which I couldn't do if I suddenly got a job
as a fieldworker in the eastern regions of Nepal. However, he cannot
hack the source if he's using Windows on his laptop - he can if he
uses Linux. If he wants a new version, he's got to tell me what he
wants, perhaps even write a patch, but he has to wait for my
new release before he can use it.

Of course, this is all quite theoretical: the nice people at TrollTech
are quite reasonable, and just want to make sure they get their share
out of the profit people make with their tools, but the letter of the
license causes all kinds of complex situations.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Aug 28 14:47:29 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:47:29 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <3B8BDDF2.C6DF7018@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5HRi7.53273$c8.23352370@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B8BDDF2.C6DF7018 at ccvcorp.com...
>
>
> Rainer Deyke wrote:
>
> > <gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
> >
> > > c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)
> >
> > That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
> >
> > c = (a * 100) / b
> > s = '%03d' % c
> > file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
> >
>
> Unreliable how?

You are relying in an approximation to give accurate results.  Consider the
case where 'a' is a long integer that cannot be fully represented in a
Python float.

> The bar() version, your suggestion, appears to *usually* truncate, but in
a few
> cases rounds up.

No, it always rounds to negative infinity.

>  The foo() version *always* rounds to nearest .01.

There is no such guarantee; it is merely an artifact of the implementation
and the values you chose.

>  I would
> consider the latter to be the more reliable (consistent) behavior.  (I was
> surprised by this, actually--I expected bar() to always truncate, and was
going
> to simply point out that it was a matter of whether truncation or rounding
was
> preferred...)

You are being misled by floating point errors.  If you recalculate by hand
instead of relying on floating point calculations, you will see that 'bar'
always truncates, and it is the floating point unit which is in error.  This
just demonstrates that floats are a Bad Idea if you want correctness.

If you want to round to the nearest reliably, use this:

def baz(a, b):
  s = '%03d' % (((a * 200) / b) + 1) / 2
  return s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:]



--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From shezafd at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  5 01:59:32 2001
From: shezafd at yahoo.com (Daphna Shezaf)
Date: 4 Aug 2001 22:59:32 -0700
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
References: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com> <ur8utjcjp.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <54c26728.0108042159.c06386@posting.google.com>

> The only piece that I've had trouble doing this way is win32com
> support since it does some strange things with its module definitions
> (using the local registry) and has some dependency on some core DLLs
> being in the system directory.  Or at least I haven't figured out how
> to cleanly avoid that yet.

Thanks, it seems to be working the way I want.
Did you try using other win32.. stuff? I'd like to have some message
boxes using win32ui, for example, and it doesn't seem to work.

Daphna


From piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl  Tue Aug 28 05:40:06 2001
From: piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:40:06 +0200
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
Message-ID: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>

Hi

I have some simple calculations:
a=30
b=9
c=a/b

and want to store them in a file (as a string):

file.write(`c`)

Well, it is of course wrong, because 'c' is integer and  truncates
everything after period.

c=float(a)/float(b)
works fine, but gives me to much places after decimal point. I need only
ie 2.

How can I tell python to give me only 2 digits after decimal point? And
of course store it in a variable.

So I want 'c' to be 3.33.

Regards
Piotr Legiecki


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Sat Aug 25 23:03:00 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:03:00 GMT
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com> <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com> <1oqcots7lbmcsk7ossdkfbcr7dfqd33kvf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B886789.9030406@ActiveState.com>

Paul Moore wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:32:46 +0200, Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>(And, BTW, if I hit Ctrl-C, I get an error
>>>>"Unhandled exception detected before entering Python." - shouldn't I
>>>>get a KeybordInterrupt error?)
>>>>
>>Well, the Ctrl+C key is being hit _before_ Python code is entered.  In 
>>this case we possibly do _not_ want Python to handle the exception - for 
>>all we know, the object itself has handled the Ctrl+C key, and is 
>>calling back into Python to handle it.
>>
> 
> Hmm, thinking some more about this, the key point is that we don't *know* that
> the object has handled the exception. But if the object does handle the
> exception, surely the Python support code won't see it (it'll have already
> been translated into an OnCtrlC event or whatever, and handled). So the only
> time Python sees the Ctrl-C is when the object *hasn't* handled it - and so
> Python *should* handle it. After all, in the current situation, where the
> object does not handle Ctrl-C, I have no way of either handling it on the next
> event in Python, nor of suppressing the message.

We had this exact problem in the Python XPCOM bindings.

An XPCOM program was running, and the user hit Ctrl+C.  There was no 
explicit handler for this in the program, so the program begun 
termination.  This termination process begun the XPCOM finalization 
process, which itself calls back into Python, so the Python XPCOM 
bindings can be shut down.

If Python honoured this Ctrl+C notification, the cleanup code was not 
executed.

The exact same issue can apply with win32com.  A program sees Ctrl+C, 
and as part of the shutdown process, releases references to existing COM 
objects.  One of these objects may be a Python COM object, and this 
final release of the object may cause the __del__ method on the class to 
be executed.

This is kinda-of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".  I think the 
correct answer is for the program itself to install its own Ctrl+C 
handler - this should be possible from Python itself.

Mark.



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  9 20:12:45 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:12:45 -0400
Subject: One yahoo's view
References: <i676ntg62akjess1vdhr4dltkq4jg3j2vl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6EFc7.19$0c.1391@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Kirby Urner" <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:i676ntg62akjess1vdhr4dltkq4jg3j2vl at 4ax.com...
>
> The Yahoo mirror/interface to comp.lang.python says
> about this "group":
>
> Group Info
> Members: 436
> Founded: Dec 31, 1969
> Language: English
>
> Go figure.
>
And of course two hundred of those are Tim Peters, and AlexMartelli must be
at least another 150. When you factor Guido's 85 points (potential score 850
* 0.1 presence-on-group penalty) that means the only other person is ... er
... me.

So the real question is, who are *you*?

solipsistacal-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From fleet at teachout.org  Tue Aug  7 12:17:59 2001
From: fleet at teachout.org (fleet at teachout.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:17:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Newbie Question!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071215460.8658-100000@fleet1>

>   From: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
>Subject: Re: Newbie Question!
>
>Well I can answer your first question: see
>
>    http://pydish.holdenweb.com:8080/DeptHome/python
>
>(which is itself a pure Python web) for a small CGI server in Python. I
>think you'll be surprised how small. Run that from the same directory as an
>index.html file containing your favored HTML page, and access is at
>
>    http://127.0.0.1:8000/

Assume two givens:
  1.  The script works as advertised - attested to by "bob."
  2.  I'm clueless - can be attested to by most regular readers of this list/group for the
past couple of weeks.

I get the following when I attempt to run the script:

[/home/dev/cbamc]$ python cgiserver.py
localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] code 403, message Directory listing not
supported
localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 403 -
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "cgiserver.py", line 5, in ?
    httpd.serve_forever()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 195, in serve_forever
    self.handle_request()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 210, in handle_request
    request, client_address = self.get_request()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 223, in get_request
    return self.socket.accept()
KeyboardInterrupt <---- me getting out

The directory contains only 'index.html' (rather lengthy) and 'cgiserver.py.'

					- fleet -




From woodm at equire.com  Fri Aug 10 15:40:34 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:40:34 -0600
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <3B9EC544@twigger.nl>
Message-ID: <3B7438B2.1090402@equire.com>



Hans Nowak wrote:

>> ===== Original Message From "Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> =====
>> Ok, I've been banging my head against this for a sufficiently long time
>> that I feel justified in presenting this personal challenge to the list.
>> 
>> How do you make a swap function?
> 
> 
> You don't need to. :)  Use:
> 
>   a, b = b, a

That makes me so mad that I didn't think of that.  Great suggestion.  (I 
feel really dumb...)

> 
>> How do you make a function or a callable object instance that will do
>> what the following code intends to do:
>> 
>>   def swap (heaven, hell) :
>>           purgatory = heaven
>>           heaven = hell
>>           hell = purgatory
> 
> 
> Python's internal workings are very different from languages like C and 
> Pascal. A Python "variable" is not a location in memory that you can fill with 
> arbitrary data. This Pascal code:
> 
>   X := 3;
>   X := 42;
> 
> changes the value of X, which resides at a certain location in memory. But the 
> equivalent Python code
> 
>   x = 3
>   x = 42
> 
> does not do exactly the same; rather, it binds the name 'x' to the value 3, 
> then rebinds that name to the value 42. Other people explain this better than 
> me; see
> 
>   http://w1.132.telia.com/~u13212494/guides/python-objects.htm
> 
> HTH,
> 
> --Hans Nowak
> 
> 
Yeah, from what I have found, the best way to think about things is that 
everything is a reference.  However, you can't affect the value of a 
passed parameter.  You can however, effect the contents of that 
reference.  (You can't point to a different list, but you can screw with 
the contents of the current list.)  I just couldn't figure out how to 
get around that problem.


But thanks to you, I can.  I love this list!

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010810/0b84987c/attachment.html>

From kosh at aesaeion.com  Fri Aug 24 20:16:38 2001
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:44:38 +0028
Subject: Can zope do this?
References: <71550321.0108242157.2ee16aa8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6hh7m9.i11.ln@192.168.0.1>

FunkyTritone wrote:

First of all a good way to get lots of questions answered is to logon to 
irc.openprojects.net with an irc client and join #zope Sometimes of the day 
it seems dead but that is because people are often coding instead of 
talking on the channel. However most of the time you can get someone's help 
if you are willing to ask a question then idle on the channel for about 10 
minutes.

> Sorry if this is off topic, I couldn't find a zope specific ng.
> 
> I'm learning Zope these days, and I'd like to put up a server with
> it, but before I invest time and money I'd like to know if Zope
> is the correct tool for what I'm trying to do:
> I'm trying to semplify the creation of "standard" company sites.
> With standard I mean the they need a subset of the usual services
> (news, catalogs, user registration). The PHP + MySQL solution works
> fine but it takes too much time to build everthing. And using
> Zope I could use their wonderful admin as back office.
> So I'd like to create with zope these services (catalog, ...),
> and somehow create the new site putting all these pieces together,
> and giving the site administrator (the one who controls the site
> contents) some specific access (to insert new products, etc..) to the zope
> admin.

Yes that can be done. Actually myself and many other zope developers do 
this very commonly. One thing I highly recommend is learning python. With 
knowledge of python you can fully use the power of zope and enable some of 
its more complex but very powerful features. Writing custom products the 
encompass a piece of logic is very useful. So once you figure out what you 
want your catalog to be you write it as a custom object that later you can 
just add like a lego piece. I find overall this saves vast amounts of time 
while building websites. It takes a little bit more time up front to create 
these items but overall I find we earn the time back after using the 
product twice.

> 
> Can it be done? Is a good idea giving the site admin some access to
> the zope admin? Or should I build some back office interface from
> scratch? (I'd love to use Zope's admin, it's just wonderful)
>

You can give the admin as much or as little access as you want. Zope has a 
full access control list system that applies to every object. What is very 
sweet is that these access control lists can apply all the way down to the 
methods of a class so that you can define who can execute which method of 
your class. I find this to be a very nice feature.
 
> How many sites do you think I could serve from such a Zope server
> (usually small sites, few megs of data, around 1000 hits a day)?
> 
That would depend on how powerful the server is. Asking this question on 
the zope irc channel is likely to get you some pretty good answers.

> Any answers will be really appreciated!
> 
> Thanks :-)
> 
> Giovanni



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 25 09:24:27 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:24:27 -0500
Subject: line continuations with backslash
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEOILHAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <7xk7zslvx1.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEOILHAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <15239.42763.663342.634632@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    Tim> You don't need the "+" signs there; as in C, adjacent string
    Tim> literals are catenated at compile-time.

so why not this then:

    x = long("123"
             "456"
             "789")

which saves all the splitting and joining and is (nearly) as readable?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Aug 20 14:38:51 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:38:51 -0700
Subject: __dynamic__ attribute
Message-ID: <OF6B3BA815.DCB1BD71-ON88256AAE.00667A10@i2.com>

Yes, I did.

Thanks for the correction.

Jim



                                                                                                                   
                    aahz at panix.com                                                                                 
                    (Aahz Maruch)             To:     python-list at python.org                                       
                    Sent by:                  cc:                                                                  
                    python-list-admin@        Subject:     Re: __dynamic__ attribute                               
                    python.org                                                                                     
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   
                    08/19/01 03:59 PM                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




In article <mailman.997827933.4726.python-list at python.org>,
 <James_Althoff at i2.com> wrote:
>
>Is it worth considering the possibility of making it more granular
(somehow
>controlling separately the modification of attribute values versus the
>addition or deletion of attributes, perhaps)?  Currently it controls the
>changing of a class object in all ways (if set to 1 it makes the class
>object immutable).

Um, you mean setting __dynamic__ to zero makes it immutable, I think.
--
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 15:54:33 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:54:33 -0500
Subject: Downloading alpha releases; a good idea?
In-Reply-To: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>
References: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>
Message-ID: <15237.24441.610065.848905@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    Jesse> How unstable are alpha releases?  I now have Python 2.0 and am
    Jesse> thinking about updating.  Should I go to 2.1(.1, of course), wait
    Jesse> for 2.2 final, or get 2.2.a2 which is out now?  And if I go with
    Jesse> 2.1.1 should I update to 2.2 final when it comes out?

Most Python releases tend to actually be pretty stable, alpha, beta, or
otherwise.  If you want to play around with new features, then by all means,
download the various prerelease versions.  Otherwise, 2.1.1 is your best
bet.  You can also point your source tree at the CVS repository and be even
more bleeding edge than the alpha releases.  It also makes it fairly easy to
go back and forth between various releases by cvs updating to particular
release names.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 07:37:46 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:37:46 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:59:46 +0200."
             <m15VuqI-000wcBC@swing.co.at> 
References: <m15VuqI-000wcBC@swing.co.at> 
Message-ID: <200108131137.HAA17621@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

[Christian Tanzer]
> Would it be possible to possible to write a meta-class allowing the
> dynamic change of __class__? And if so, how difficult would that be?

That would be possible if you're willing to write it in C.  It would
be somewhat difficult if you wanted to make sure that abuse couldn't
lead to core dumps, because you'd have to implement a hairy check
(which I haven't figured out yet but which I believe is possible in
principle) that determines whether the old and the new __class__ have
compatible instance structure.

> I'd like to support the proposal of Glyph and Alex to make 0 the
> default for `__dynamic__`. IMHO, optimization should be restricted to
> those few modules where it is really necessary.

See my response earlier in this thread.

> Dynamicity is one of the really strong points of Python -- eye popping
> as Glyph just called it.

Eye popping can be a negative point too.  I'd prefer a warning before
my eyes are popped.

> > Understood.  Nevertheless, all evidence suggests that Twisted is not
> > typical Python code. :-)
> 
> What is typical? I'd assume that a tiny percentage of Python code uses
> the really dynamic features.

Tiny indeed.

> OTOH, this tiny percentage might itself be used by a lot of other
> code. At least in my applications some modules do make use of some
> eye-popping features and they tend to be used all over the place.

Because __dynamic__ is inherited, if you inherit from an eye-popping
class, your class will automatically be eye-popping too.

> Please be careful in this crusade... The language you *wanted* to design
> might have been not quite as
> excellent/wonderful/<insert-your-favorite-exclamation-of-insane-
> greatness-here> as the one you came up instead :-) 

Please trust me...  The changes I have in mind might not be so
devastating for Python's beauty as you seem to be thinking. :-)

> I wouldn't mind if I had to ask for some dynamic features more
> explicitly than now but I'd really be hard hit if they went away
> entirely. I'd love to get better performance but not at the price of
> loosing all this dynamicism. I if wanted to use a non-dynamic language
> I'd know way too many candidates vying to make my life unhappy <0.1
> wink>

Some people like Python for its extreme dynamicism.  But there are
other languages in that niche (like Lisp).  Most people like Python
because it's so darn readable and maintainable.  Unbridled dynamicism
goes against that.  I am striving for a balance that allows most forms
of dynamicism, but requires a declaration in advanced for the more
extreme kinds.

> Separate explicit mechanisms would be much better than just dropping
> dynamicism. In fact, despite the need for changing working code
> <sigh>, making an external change of a module explicit would probably
> be a good thing.

Exactly.  I'm not planning to drop dynamicism -- I'm planning to make
it more explicit.

> Maybe module objects could even grow `get-set` magic in the process
> <duck>.

You probably don't realize it, but you can write modules with get/set
magic now, by stuffing an instance in sys.modules[__name__].

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From harrisonm7 at home.com  Fri Aug 17 14:10:58 2001
From: harrisonm7 at home.com (Mike Harrison)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 11:10:58 -0700
Subject: 2.1.1 installer hangs on Win2k Professional
Message-ID: <471417c6.0108171010.4175757f@posting.google.com>

Has anyone gotten the windows installer to get past the selection of
components? On my win2k machine, it just hangs when I click next at
that point and I have to terminate the process. It gives me an error
that the win16 subsystem is unstable and must be shutdown. Is this
installer a win16 program? If so, why?  Is there any way of installing
Python on windows without using the non-win2k-compatible installer?


From ignacio at openservices.net  Sat Aug 25 22:16:54 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108251735580.6345-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108252214020.12728-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> >
> > > Hi python people -
> > > 	I was trying to find a gfx package for Python, and I tried it.
> > > I have python aliased to /usr/local/bin/python2.1 and running python on
> > > their examples said it couldn't find the module gtk.  But after
> > > unalias-ing it, they worked, and it is cool!  I would rather use
> > > Python2.1 if I can, but I don't use it's features, so I don't care much.
> > > But, do other people use PyGTK with 2.1?
> >
> > Back in November 2000 a very similar question was asked on the PyGTK mailing
> > list, except it was with Python 2.0. The answer was basically "recompile it
> > with the newer version of Python". Try that and see if it works.
>
> After it didn't work the first time, I immediately recompiled.  ie, I
> did ./configure; make; sudo make install again and it still didn't work.

After poking around, I've determined that you have to change certain variables
in the Makefile in order to compile it against the Python 2 libs and install
in the right place.

> > OTOH, it may be that the PyGTK libraries only exist in your Python 1.5
> > site-packages directory. Check that, but I suggest the recompile.
>
> I imagine that's what it is.  Sorry for my ignorance, but how do I check
> it?

In each version of Python, type the following:

---
import os
print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)
---

Add '/site-packages' to both values and check those directories. However, I
still suggest doing the recompile.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 13:48:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:48:35 -0400
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311323050.4373-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEDPLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]
> Well, I've released this needlessly brittle code, so now you can
> critique it in it's entirety:

Nope.  I was never criticizing your code, I was ridiculing your fear of
gotos for your own good <wink>.

> ...
> Ugh. Returning from within the do as soon as the error occurs
> would probably be better anyways.

In which case the code becomes brittle, because you have to remember to
decref the partial result (if any), and every temp, before returning.  It's
not especially hard to get that right when you first write the code, but
under modification the number of error returns increases, and the set of
temps changes, and exactly when each temp first becomes non-NULL shifts, and
then you've got an ever-growing number of code regions that need to be
patched by hand.  The goto version remains dead simple.

come-back-after-you've-maintained-extensions-for-years<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 16:11:57 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:11:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dumb question.
In-Reply-To: <NLbj7.3336$S5.2321233@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291608350.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Adonis Vargas wrote:

> is the behaviour of print suppose to automatically start a new line? or does
> the print command suppose to wait for a cr\lf prior to ending the line?
> because everytime i would like to use the print command to print X line of
> text/numbeers/etc. sequentially it start a new line everytime print is
> issued; isthis a normal thing? or a problem?
>
> Adonis

print automatically ends the printed text with a \n. You can avoid this in two
ways:

1) Print everything you need at once:

---
print '%s, my good friend, I just ate %d hamburgers!' % (name, count)
---

2) Use sys.stdout:

---
sys.stdout.write("This is on a line! ")
sys.stdout.write("This is on the same line!\n")
sys.stdout.write("This is not!\n")
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From alex at shindich.com  Tue Aug 14 22:32:40 2001
From: alex at shindich.com (Alex Shindich)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:32:40 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7c905859.0108141832.18c40b6@posting.google.com>

As always, Mr. Martelli&#8217;s posts are long and full of fascinating
detail. This time though, I have managed to read it all the way
through without forgetting the beginning of the post. In fact, I am
fully and entirely in support of Alex&#8217;s position! I do care for
the new features in PEP 252, but I think that the default behavior
should not change. Here are my reasons:
1.	I do believe that "premature" optimizations are evil. They usually
lead to really clumsy design decisions with very little performance
gain.
2.	I am worried about incompatibility with older versions of Python.
As a person who does have some amount of production code written in
Python, I am worried about the effort of making my code compatible
with this change. Even though I have unit tests for most of my code,
it is still an effort to fix all the places where I need to turn on
"dynamism".
3.	Most Python developers did not choose Python over C++ for speed.
Python is attractive because it is a very clean OO language with
dynamic behavior. Making Python less dynamic and &#8220;agedly&#8221;
faster will not attract more developers. Making it less dynamic will
be a turn off for some members of the existing Python community.

Just thought I would offer my 2 cents on this issue.


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 21 11:04:29 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 08:04:29 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfq7c$kn0$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9lhbpk01tgd@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9ltt9t$5i5$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9lhbpk01tgd at enews3.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
>news:9lfq7c$kn0$1 at slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
>> 
>> Huh?  "right now?"  There's almost nothing being dicussed except
>> for '/' which will break even 5+ year old code.  The new keyword,
>
>Hmmm -- it looks to me we were VERY close to a BDFL pronouncement
>that assignment to aninstance.__class__ was going away, and that by
>default classes were going to be unmodifiable -- both for performance
>reasons, and to protect 'typical users' from themselves -- and it may
>yet happen, of course.  "dangerous" seems an apt adjective here.

No, we weren't.  Part of the reason I paid little attention to the
brouhaha was because it was remarkably easy to channel Guido and figure
out that *at* *worst* the restriction would only apply to classes
inheriting from object.  Yes, even after the type/class unification was
complete.  Once Guido realized that the decision would affect things
other than just aninstance.__class__, he backed away *very* quickly.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From kern at myrddin.caltech.edu  Sat Aug  4 23:39:32 2001
From: kern at myrddin.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 03:39:32 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com>
    <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
    <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net>
    <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net>
    <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com>
    <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net>
    <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
    <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9kif5k$j1n@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

In article <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
	"Chris Tavares" <ctavares at develop.com> writes:
> "Robert Amesz" <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...

[snip]

>> But he's right about Bison, I remember that distinctly: output from
>> Bison should be considered GPLed because it contains GPLed sourcecode
>> from Bison. Why the rationale was not applied to Flex is still a
>> mystery to me, but there you have it.
>>
>> Fortunately, there are alternatives.
>>
>>
>> Robert Amesz
>>
> 
> Really? I don't have the docs handy right now, but I distinctly remember
> there being a specific exception in the Bison license to deal with this
> exact problem - you're allowed to use the Bison generated code & parser
> engine in whatever you want, no GPL restrictions apply. Unless the license
> has changed in the last five years, anyway.

>From bison.info (version 1.28 from Debian unstable):

"""
Conditions for Using Bison
**************************

As of Bison version 1.24, we have changed the distribution terms for `yyparse'
to permit using Bison's output in non-free programs.  Formerly, Bison parsers
could be used only in programs that were free software.

The other GNU programming tools, such as the GNU C compiler, have never had such
a requirement.  They could always be used for non-free software.  The reason
Bison was different was not due to a special policy decision; it resulted from
applying the usual General Public License to all of the Bison source code.

The output of the Bison utility--the Bison parser file--contains a verbatim copy
of a sizable piece of Bison, which is the code for the `yyparse' function.  (The
actions from your grammar are inserted into this function at one point, but the
rest of the function is not changed.)  When we applied the GPL terms to the code
for `yyparse', the effect was to restrict the use of Bison output to free
software.

We didn't change the terms because of sympathy for people who want to make
software proprietary.  *Software should be free.*  But we concluded that
limiting Bison's use to free software was doing little to encourage people to
make other software free.  So we decided to make the practical conditions for
using Bison match the practical conditions for using the other GNU tools.
"""

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter


From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 16:24:25 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:24:25 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3b856114.272278696@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:24:40 +0200, "Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es> wrote:

>Many times I want to extract a sublist and I have the initial position  p
>plus the length  n.
>So I do:
>v[p:p+n]
>
>Many times the initial position  p  is an expression. Hence, I have to
>repeat it tediously (and with a possible lost of performance) or assign it
>previously to a variable. The last is boring and is a little trick out of
>the logic of the program
>
>My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
>v[5 # 2]
>Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]
>
>v[5 # -2]
>Extract 2 elements ending at (but not including the) 5: [ v[3], v[4] ].
>Equivalent to v[5-2:5]
>
>I think that this little syntactic sugar allows programs more compact and
>readable. Also, I had less "start and end point paranoias". I suppose that
>the implementation is easy and the current programs are not affected at all.
>
'#' is a comment delimiter which would make that usage awful. But I think
   v[5:+=2]
could be possible and also
   v[-=2:5]

I.e.,
   v[a:+=b]
and
   v[-=b:a]
would be equivalent to
   v[a:a+b]
and
   v[a-b:a]
IOW,
   op=slice_parameter
implies
   slice_parameter_value_to_use = the_other_slice_parameter op slice_parameter

This might have interesting (maybe even useful ;-) consequences
for ops other than + and - and might not be that bad to implement, since
op= tokens are distinct.



From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 19 13:31:02 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:31:02 +0200
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <slrn9nnrkv.47f.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <1232517.SZvhalqRGM@lunix.schabi.de> <slrn9nojec.5dj.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2586571.M708Kxvfdy@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk> schrub:

>>> parses text. Note also that this is documentted under the heading
>>> "Parsing MIME documents" which wants to be changed to something like
>>> "Parsing Mail Documents".
>>
>>That is definitely not true, because there are other uses for mime
>>encapsulation, not only mail. The nearest example is Usenet News.
> 
> True.
> 
> My point was that the section entitled "Parsing MIME documents" is
> also about parsing non-MIME documents.

May be we should suggest "Parsing Messages" or "Parsing Documents"?
 
markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:45:42 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:45:42 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <998406891.451155@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1452000.a2XM6RcZxF@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:1452000.a2XM6RcZxF at lunix.schabi.de...
> Burkhard Kloss <bk at xk7.com> schrub:
>
> >> Is there a way to loop through the keys of a dictionary (whitout
> >> using a list containing all those keys)?
> >>
> >> e.g. mydict = {'123':[1,9,13],'125':[6,8],'225':[5]}
> > for key in mydict.keys():
> >     print key, mydict [key]
> >
> > should do the trick
>
> It does, but
>
> >>> for key,value in mydict.items():
> ...     print key, value
>
> seems to be faster in my eyes, as it doesn't have a dictionary lookup
> every round.

SEEMS and IS, of course, are often very different, MOST
particularly in the arena of computer-program performance.
Have you tried to MEASURE things...?

File dipe.py:
import time

thedic = {}
for i in range(1000):
    thedic[i] = str(i)

def ignore(whatever):
    pass

def loop_on_keys(adic=thedic, times=100, ignore=ignore):
    for x in range(times):
        for key in adic.keys():
            ignore(adic[key])

def loop_on_items(adic=thedic, times=100, ignore=ignore):
    for x in range(times):
        for key, value in adic.items():
            ignore(value)

start = time.clock()
loop_on_keys()
stend = time.clock()
print 'using keys:',round(stend-start,2)

start = time.clock()
loop_on_items()
stend = time.clock()
print 'using items:',round(stend-start,2)

start = time.clock()
loop_on_keys()
stend = time.clock()
print 'using keys:',round(stend-start,2)

start = time.clock()
loop_on_items()
stend = time.clock()
print 'using items:',round(stend-start,2)


D:\py21>python dipe.py
using keys: 0.45
using items: 0.53
using keys: 0.45
using items: 0.53

D:\py21>python dipe.py
using keys: 0.45
using items: 0.53
using keys: 0.45
using items: 0.53


Highly repeatable on my box: the loop on items
is almost 20% slower than the loop on keys.
Sure, the latter has extra dict lookups, but
Python has *VERY* fast dict lookups -- the
former has a lot of extra construction of two-
item tuples (pairs), and apparently Python (in
this 2.1.1 version, on WinNT/4, etc etc, of
course) hasn't optimized that quite as much.


Alex





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 22 18:30:59 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:30:59 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o8cl3.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:01:55 GMT, Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> pisze:

> I have a method name (string) and a class object. I'd like to
> be able to look up the the named unbound method of the class.

getattr(o, m)

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug  5 10:59:59 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:59:59 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:49:19 GMT, wtanksle at dolphin.openprojects.net
(William Tanksley) wrote:

>On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:32:56 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
>>In article <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
>><tim.one at home.com> writes
>
>>No matter who decided what it seems clear that the decision to go to /
>>as float had already been taken long before the flamefest took place.
>
>Pretty much.
>
>>That makes python's development somewhat less than democratic.
>
>Nope; it makes it *other* than democratic.  The way you go on one would
>think that was a bad thing; actually, it's not.

If there was an undeniably good reason for the change, I would agree
with this. As it stands, there are equally good - if not better -
reasons for keeping division as it is. At the end of the day, the
change is being done because of a religious viewpoint held by a vocal
part of the group that has a long history of rioting at the palace
gates. The decision isn't being made by logic or by popularity - it's
being made because the DFL has been hearing the protestors shouting
for too long while the happy and indifferent users have just got on
with using Python. He is a new-born
division-must-be-done-this-way-ist.

If you post on a single part of the issue, you get countered with an
argument that is so weak it's unbelievable. Counter back, and you get
told 'oh no, we've heard that one before' - as if that somehow makes
it wrong. But of course you hear the same pro-PEP views over and over
again and that's allowed - no matter how strong the argument against
those views. Actually compile all the main issues into a single post
so that people would actually have to think to counter it, and all
they do is ignore it.

Of course I've been shown to be wrong on a couple of things - on a
blatantly religious issue I'd be surprised if I wasn't. The bulk of my
argument is all in one place, however, in a thread titled 'Steve
Summary of views on the Is-It-Actually-Better?' - it has been there
since the 24th of July, with a minor update on the 25th - and not one
person has posted a counter argument to that.

The pro-PEP faction *IS* a religious faction just the same as the
anti-PEP faction. There is no overwhelming argument to prove the
pro-PEP case - only an overwhelming faith that the pro-PEP arguments
are good and the anti-PEP arguments should be stamped down or ignored.
And I'll admit that the anti-PEP faction is just as bad - the claims
about 'MDFL' and such show that.

The only significant difference between the factions is that the
anti-PEP people don't want to drag everyone through years of
incompatibility problems just because they think their religious
viewpoint is the one and only 'ultimate' truth.

The pro-PEP people think that the anti-PEP viewpoint being weak, in
their opinion, is a proof of their arguments and their motivation. The
fact that their arguments are at least as weak is ignored. And the
number of times I've seen threads such as...

<pro-pep>  We have to make it easy on the newbies

<anti-pep>  Yes - ease the learning curve - but don't hide problems,
pretend there's nothing to learn, and cause newbies to save up bigger
problems for later - a comfort zone isn't a good thing

<pro-pep>  Stop blaming the newbies - it's not about newbies

...just bores me to tears.

>No.  We get to use the result of Guido's decision process.  We also get to
>provide him feedback for his decisions (if we want to).  At no point do we
>get to be part of the decision-making process.  This is just like real
>life -- if you want something done right, give ONE competant person the
>responsibility and authority to do it.

This is, of course, why dictatorship has always worked so well as a
form of government. Not.

>>At some point the DFL will make a decision that's wrong. I suppose the
>>herd will have another group hug and accept it.
>
>Guido's _already_ made a decision that's wrong -- he decided to make "/"
>have an ambiguous meaning.  He's now trying to fix his mistake.  Pretty
>cool, huh?  So, do you have a better solution than the one he's proposing?

It is not an ambiguous meaning, as has been stated over and over
again. But then the only opinions that still count if lots of people
state them over and over again are the pro-PEP ones of course.

Just once more, then...

There is a bit of meta-data implicit in the datatype. If you use
integers, you are asserting that you are working in the set of
integers. That means the only logical interpretation of the division
operator is integer division. And, as luck would have it, that is an
extremely useful interpretation because everyday non-specialist
programming tasks frequently require programmers to work in the set of
integers.

If you used mixed types with arithmetic operators, then - while it is
debatable whether the operations should be allowed at all - it is a
practical convenience to coerce to the more flexible type. That is not
the same as discarding the notion of type.

>If so, propose it here (and someone will hopefully make a PEP of it).  If
>not, let's talk about solutions.  But for goodness' sake, don't waste your
>time whining about "democracy".  Especially when "democracy" means
>"whiners have veto power over anything."

That is precisely what has happened with the pro-PEP view - the
whiners have kept on whining for so long that they finally got their
way and now a fundamental arithmetic operator is changing. *YOU* are
in with the whiners. *I* am simply not sitting down and taking it just
because the whiners will keep whining at me otherwise.

The following paragraph is not aimed at William Tanksley, which should
be obvious but the way people read things on this issue I'd just like
to make that explicit...

I'd like to point out that the large number of 'viruses' I've been
e-mailed over the last couple of weeks won't affect my viewpoint. I
thought this was an innocent case of other people being infected at
first, but it's rather strange that when I reply to these e-mails to
warn people that their machines have been infected the addresses
mysteriously don't exist and the messages consistently bounce.
Fortunately, I'm not stupid enough to run untrusted attachments (no,
not *even* when they have two extensions to try to fool stupid people
into thinking they are documents), and even if I was I always have
up-to-date backups. And yes, I do understand a little Spanish, so
could the person who sent that mail please reconsider who the 'pajero
retrasado' is. In my view, sending insulting messages to people who's
views you disagree with - along with being such a coward that you
write the message in a language you think the recipient won't
understand - is a pretty good description of what a retarded wanker
might do. Using an anonymous remailer just proves even more what a
pathetic coward you are.


If this PEP goes ahead, as every indication shows it always was going
to do, then, on the whole, it just means I won't trust Python to
remain stable any more. I've contributed to discussions aimed at
minimising the pain if it does go ahead, because I have an interest in
doing so - I've been an avid Python user for about 4 years now, and a
vocal advocate for 2 or 3 years as well so this change is going to
cause some problems for me as it will for many others. However, the
simple fact is that the Python dictatorship is a somewhat weak one,
compared with other dictatorships. We are all free to leave and go
elsewhere, and there's nothing the DFL can do about it. The only force
keeping us in the Python world is the value of the Python language
itself. If that value is going to be watered down with doubt and
mistrust over the stability of the central language features, I for
one will simply find other ways to handle my future coding needs.

I have a definite distaste with the idea of taking the Python source
and setting up incompatible versions, as others have suggested, but
the world is full of other choices. Python started as a result of
Guido being unhappy with ABC. There is no reason why those unhappy
with Python should not create another new, and perhaps - in time -
superior, language.

So rejoice - your faction has got its way with the division operator.
Why don't you go ahead and whine about case sensitivity, block
indenting, implicit referencing and every other feature of Python that
anyone ever accused of being a wart. I'm sure you'll eventually
convince Guido to change all these things and more. I no longer care.



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 19:46:09 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:46:09 -0400
Subject: Newbie, need tutorial D/L
References: <oche7.404$n57.237388@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <3B79B841.75CAA801@engcorp.com>

S11001001 wrote:
> 
> I am only a newbie to python, a perl refugee, in fact. I need a DOWNLOADABLE,
> as in one tarball or something, tutorial employing DESCRIPTION. I cannot leave
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  huh?
> the internet connection running as I page through the tutorial at python.org,
> so I can't go that route. Once I get kernel 2.2.5, I will be able to do
> Internet in Linux, so it will probably be alright. But I prefer to learn
> offline.

Not sure what you meant by "tutorial employing DESCRIPTION"
(isn't that redundant... a tutorial is an exercise in
descriptive writing, isn't it?), but why not just download
Python and install it?  It has the descriptive tutorial
included in the documentation that comes with it.
(see .../python/Doc/tut/tut.html)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Fri Aug 31 03:35:44 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:35:44 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
In-Reply-To: <9mnd72$i8$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310129540.30302-100000@bms>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Formalin wrote:

> class now:
>     ....
>     ....
>     ....
> n=now()
> s='n'
> print s
>
> the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>
>
> what means?????

Cut'n'Paste is better than typing.  ;)

>>> class now: pass
...
>>> n = now()
>>> s = 'n'
>>> print s
n
>>> s2 = n
>>> print s2
<__main__.now instance at 0x805fd54>
>>> print n
<__main__.now instance at 0x805fd54>
>>>

Just what it says...
s2 and n are instances of "now", which is in the top level namespace
(i.e., __main__), and you even get the id (which just happens to be
the address in memory the object is located).


- Bruce




From bend at ecollege.com  Mon Aug 20 17:55:37 2001
From: bend at ecollege.com (Ben Derstine)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 14:55:37 -0700
Subject: Windows Script Host name space question
Message-ID: <d4baf6cc.0108201355.2e7e32bd@posting.google.com>

Can someone provide me an example of how I'd use the VBS function
Weekday from a .pys script (or any VBS built in function for that
matter.) The only function I now how to use in a .pys is WScript.Echo.
 When using Weekday in a .vbs file I simply put

Wscript.Echo Weekday(#8/10/2001#)

and it works.  If I try the same thing in the .pys file I get a name
error on Weekday.  It must be sort of simple name space issue but I
can't find any documentation on how to make the connection. Thanks,

Ben


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Aug  7 17:17:54 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:17:54 GMT
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9kpeft$kbm$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <6WYb7.96315$Cy.14311087@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:9kpeft$kbm$1 at slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
[snip]
> I learned a couple weeks ago of a reason to be able to add new
> methods dynamically.  I was at a talk where the speaker presented
> a development system for non-programmers.  It allowed them to
> tweak the class definitions in-place.  She chose Tcl (with an
> object extension) over Python because Python's ability to add
> new methods is not obvious[*] and because existing instances
> are not updated with the new class definitions
>
> [*] Here are two ways - of many - that would be "obvious"
>  == 1 (backwards compatible) ==
[snip]
>  == 2 (not backwards compatible, but when I started Python
>        I thought this would work) ==
>
> class Spam:
>   def what(self):
>     print "spam"
>
> class Spam:
>   def slice(self):
>     print "sliced"

This looks kind of similar and appears to work (at the expense of slowing
down all your lookups). (1) is prettier though...:

class Spam:
   def what(self):
      print "spam"

class Spam(Spam):
   def slice(self):
      print "sliced"

-tim




From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 17 16:06:29 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:06:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Disabling Cache?
In-Reply-To: <9ljgdq223oi@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108171502490.10102-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Angel Asencio" <asencio at mitre.org> wrote in message
> news:3B7D2983.77C3CBE3 at mitre.org...
> > Greetings:
> >   I know that I can do "reload" to load a module all over again.  But I do not want to trace all the modules
> > to determine which ones are dependent and reload them.
> 
> You don't have to reload any other module, as long as you don't use
> the statement 'from x import y' (or otherwise stash attributes of
> module x away somewhere), in which case the only real solution
> is to stop doing so -=- use 'import x' and always refer to x's attributes
> as x.pleep, x.kloop, etc, explicitly, and you'll have no problem.

Or, you can use twisted.python.rebuild from the Twisted suite
(www.twistedmatrix.com) rather than standard reload, and all of the
problems that alex mentioned will be taken care of for you, including
refreshing existing instances!  I believe there are still a few conditions
it doesn't handle; but they're highly obscure (I haven't run into any real
code which doesn't work with it yet.) Provided that you're using a version
of Python where __class__ is assignable, you should be fine! <0.5 wink>

Patching IDLE to use this should be trivial.

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From parker at gol.com  Sun Aug 12 10:34:35 2001
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:34:35 GMT
Subject: PEP: Defining Python Source Code Encodings
References: <mailman.995466090.32686.python-list@python.org>
 <9jmp05$47j$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <IZ1rvCA4Qpd7Ewta@gol.com>

In article <9jmp05$47j$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>, Carel Fellinger
<cfelling at iae.nl> writes
>M.-A. Lemburg <mal at lemburg.com> wrote:
>...
>>        5. variable names and other identifiers will be reencoded into
>>           8-bit strings using the file encoding to assure backward
>>           compatibility with the existing implementation
>
>>           ISSUE: 
>
>>               Should we restrict identifiers to ASCII ?
>
>Me being stupid, I wonder how I'm going to access goodies hidden in
>foreign alfabet scripts.  Say GooodyScript.py is encoded in Japanese
>and I'm to use the classes and functions in them that have Japanese
>names, how am I supposed to call them in my Dutch encoded script?
>Is there a fool proof conversion from Dutch to Japanese spelling?
>And is it easy to find the proper transcriptions of those Japanese
>names, or do I have to start some external program to transcribe
>that Japanese script?
>
>Sorry if all this are standard questions related to utf etc, I haven't
>found the time to read up on this yet.

Well I haven't quite managed to get to grips with the PEP yet and there
are three issues that concern me:
1) the issue Carel raises above. 
2) relating to work I'm just about to commence:  will I be able to
include Japanese unicode strings in my normal (ascii) python scripts?
3)  if I were to be cutting and pasting chunks of code from different
source files, would things get somewhat confused if the encodings are
different?

I certainly wouldn't want my whole program to look rather odd, or is
there simply no impact on the ascii text?

However, I'm since I'm still unclear on the PEP, maybe these are non-
issues?

Regards

Ian

-- 
Ian Parker


From kwg at renre-europe.com  Fri Aug 24 05:54:20 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:54:20 +0100
Subject: problem using signal module
In-Reply-To: 	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0108240529540.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
References: 	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0108240529540.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <998646865.17914.22.camel@lewis>

On Fri, 2001-08-24 at 10:32, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> On 24 Aug 2001, Ken Guest wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 
> It's really simple: you can't catch SIGKILL. Period. You might want to try
> using SIGTERM instead. SIGTERM is the normal 'kill -15' (-15 is the default),
> and SIGKILL is 'kill -9', which immediately stop execution of a program.
> 
thanks, Ignacio - just wanted a way to close down my server cleanly,
so I'll try for trapping SIGTERM instead then.

k.




From wang at rjka.com  Tue Aug 21 13:34:28 2001
From: wang at rjka.com (Huayin Wang)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:34:28 -0500
Subject: how to stop a server (TCPServer, for example)
In-Reply-To: <15234.34269.179375.245793@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <003401c12a67$88732490$4cc809c0@pckrumm.com>

thanks and it works!

do you think it is reasonable to patch the SocketServer.py so that
it is easier to write request handler to stop the server?

I am thinking a simple patch to BaseServer class in SocketServer.py
as follow:

1) in def __init__(), add:
   self.stop = 0

2) change serve_forever to:
   def serve_forever(self):
       while not self.stop:
           self.handle_request()

thanks you again for your help!

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Montanaro [mailto:skip at pobox.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:02 AM
To: wang at rjka.com
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: how to stop a server (TCPServer, for example)



    Huayin> How to make the server clean itself up and exit?
    Huayin> Do I need to implment an exit method for the server?

That's typical.  In my serve_forever method I have (effectively)

    while self.serving:
        r,w,e = select.select([self.socket], [], [], self.pause)
        if r:
            self.handle_request()

My exit method simply sets self.serving to 0.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/




From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 21 20:50:18 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:50:18 -0700
Subject: input of data from keyboard
References: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211930390.2562-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>
Message-ID: <9luvtf$b8klg$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Watch out.  Better stick to raw_input as input evals what is entered.  Check
past postings for specific inputs that render your system useless.

Or-get-back-space-you-never-wanted-to-have-ly y'rs

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211930390.2562-100000 at cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com.
..
>
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Rajarshi Guha wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >   what function can I use to get input from the keyboard (or stdin)?
>
> (I'm surprised nobody responded sooner...) You can use the input()
> function, or raw_input() function
>
> >>> print input.__doc__
> input([prompt]) -> value
>
> Equivalent to eval(raw_input(prompt)).
> >>> print raw_input.__doc__
> raw_input([prompt]) -> string
>
> Read a string from standard input.  The trailing newline is stripped.
> If the user hits EOF (Unix: Ctl-D, Windows: Ctl-Z+Return), raise EOFError.
> On Unix, GNU readline is used if enabled.  The prompt string, if given,
> is printed without a trailing newline before reading.
> >>>
>
>
> HTH
>
>
> --
>      Thanksgiving is coming on the 4th of July
>      In the form of a girl with a needle in her eye...
>                -- The Butt Hole Surfers: The Lord is a Monkey
>
>    /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
>   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
>   \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
>    \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/
>



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 08:31:16 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:31:16 -0400
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpk807e2pg.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lb0kg01hkt@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B791A14.723F3BBB@engcorp.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> So, if protecting "typical users" against their own mistakes
> is a priority, it seems that Java fills that niche 'better'
> than Python does.
> 
> So where's Python's strength?  In *NOT* going as far as Java
> in this 'protection' racket (notoriously a lucrative one, but
> shady:-) -- in *selectively* protecting against stuff that's
> worth protecting against, but no more than that -- and thus
> not *getting in the way* the way Java does.

Hear hear!  I have a bevy of "typical" Python programmers
(lets say that means fairly new to Python, not new to
programming, but in any event they all have brains,
as most "typical" Python programmers do :)  and I have 
*not* felt the slightest need to protect them from 
themselves.  In fact, my choice of Python for this
team versus something like Java is based largely on 
the lack of implicit protection and the on the default 
dynamicism which Python provides, perhaps almost as much 
as it is on Python's vaunted readability.

> The keywords from my POV in the sentence
> "optional explicit stopping of dynamic behavior" are:
>     1. most important: OPTIONAL -- there must still be
>        a way to get the good old dynamic behavior
>     2. very important: EXPLICIT -- ideally, dynamic
>        behavior should be the default, with a way to
>        EXPLICITLY turn it off, rather than vice-versa
> 
> "Optional, explicit stopping" would mean a smooth progress
> towards a Greater And Better Python.  Changing defaults,
> or, worse, removing some of today's dynamic aspects, even
> though they had "just slipped in by mistake", has darker
> characteristics... 

I agree completely that this change, ostensibly being
made (a) to protect "typical" programmers, and (b) to
make Python faster, should be made in such a way that
is is both optional and not the default.

No "typical" programmer uses this feature anyway.  Nor
would one accidentally bump into it and need to be 
protected from doing so, even if it were really a 
good thing to protect typical Python programmers.

As far as optimizing/tuning performance, I think the
best points made on this subject have been (a) Python
can't possibly compete with many other languages and
shouldn't feel the need to and (b) make it an _option_
to select better performance, the same way it is an
option even to try optimizing one's code.  Don't try to 
push optimized Python down my throat; I'm quite happy
having an option to improve performance, which I 
can choose not to exercise (or ignore without risk).

I should be able to say, after everything is working
and I'm long past the point of needing some dynamicism,
hmmm, this part of my code clearly will never need
this dynamicism, _and_ it needs to run faster, so I'm 
going to disable that capacity, to improve performance.
Please don't make it so I have to think, for *all* the
code I write, about whether or not I will ever need this 
feature: you'll just slow me down.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 06:06:21 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:06:21 +0200
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998804559.5680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9md62v01ne3@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998804559.5680.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> >     def press_button (text):
> >       print 'you pressed %s' % text
> >
> >     def create_button (label):
> >       func = lambda: press_button (label)
> >       Button(root,text=label,command=func).pack()
> >       # if I put more stuff here and set label to something new,
> >       # the button doesn't do what I expected.
    ...
> Pick one:
    [snipped 5 ways to curry without calling it currying:-)]

Or pick another (explicit currying), e.g. with
"from __future__ import nested_scope" if need be:

def curry_to_argumentlessness(*args, **kwds):
    def totally_curried_function():
        return args[0](*args[1:],**kwds)
    return totally_curried_function

then use it at will, e.g.:


    def create_two_buttons(label):
        Button(root, text=label, command=
            curry_to_argumentlessness(press_button, label)
          ).pack()
        label = label.upper()
        Button(root, text=label, command=
            curry_to_argumentlessness(press_button, label)
          ).pack()

Currying-to-argumentlessness is a frequent enough need
(since Tk &c all want lots of argumentless callables)
that one may want to rename 'curry_to_argumentlessness'
to something more concise and put it in sitecustomize
or thereabouts.  Hmmm, there's lot of good currying stuff
already on the Cookbook, but presented in a much more
general way - I'm wondering if this extremely frequent
special case warrants its own recipe...


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 05:07:18 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:07:18 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lgt9j011q1@enews4.newsguy.com> <7x66bkihgv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lnvl6058p@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7x66bkihgv.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
    ...
> > The fact that struct is a separate module means all you have to
> > grok for the hacking is 1200 lines of code in structmodule.c,
    ...
> Thanks, I might extend the struct package as a contribution to Python
> if you think the maintainers are likely to take the change.  It's

I'm not qualified to make a prediction.  I'm told a PEP is the right
way to begin making any change, these days.

> don't even have access to C compilers for all the OS's I want the code
> to run on.

sourceforge may help with that -- they do have 'compiler farms'
you can use.  Hard to say, not knowing which OS's you target.


Alex





From bh at intevation.de  Fri Aug 17 05:42:53 2001
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 11:42:53 +0200
Subject: Sketch build/install problem
References: <slrn9no539.3lu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <6qr8ub4x2g.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <slrn9no9qp.3vt.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <6qae0znhsy.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> That fixed it.  Now it doesn't run because libtk.so doesn't
> match tk.h.  I've got tk installed in so many places/versions
> it's a wonder anything works.  I installed RedHat's Source
> Navigator in January and it caused major breakage -- and I
> think this is just another result of that.  :(

There are two things you could do in this case. You could either pass
all compiler/linker flags to the setup.py script with the --tk-flags
option, e.g.:

python2.1 setup.py configure --tk-flags="-I/usr/include/tk8.2/generic -I/usr/include/tcl8.2/generic -I/usr/X11R6/include -L/usr/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -ltk8.2 -ltcl8.2 -lX11"

Or you could edit Pax/Setup by hand so that the include directories
point to the right tcl/tk header files.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From edcjones at erols.com  Sat Aug 11 21:46:47 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:46:47 -0400
Subject: Yet another Numeric Swig core dump problem
References: <3B732140.7040609@erols.com> <9l4iao$mqm$1@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <3B75E007.8020008@erols.com>

Travis Oliphant wrote:
> Edward C. Jones wrote:
>> (code omitted)

> import_array must be in the file that is accessing the C-API for Numeric.
> 
> You are using PyArray_FromDims in a file without the import_array statement.
> 
> A quick hack is to place import_array in the KLTfeatures file.

I wrote a short essay about what I ended up doing. Something like this 
should be in the SWIG and Numeric documentation.
If
     Numeric and SWIG are used together in creating a Python extension
   and
     there are C/C++ files as part of the extension
then
   Numeric 20.1.0 will probably break your code.

This occurs because changes were made to arrayobject.h between Numeric 
20.0.0 and 20.1.0.

The changes that need to be made in your code are explained
by Konrad Hinsen
(http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/1329/2001/5/0/5718231/)
===================================================================
FROM: Konrad Hinsen
DATE: 05/09/2001 09:12:25
SUBJECT:  [Numpy-discussion] Modified header files

Recently we had a discussion about how to use NumPy arrays from
extension modules with multiple source files, on various
platforms.  The modified header files that are attached to this
message provide a (hopefully!) general solution. In fact, I
propose to make them part of the official distribution, unless
there are objections.

If used like before, these header files give exactly the same
result as the ones in NumPy 20.0.0. However, they permit to define
the name of the C API pointer array and make it globally visible.
Under the condition that the chosen name is unique, this should
not create problems under any platform, no matter if static or
dynamic linking is used.

To use NumPy features in multiple source file extension modules,
you have to write

#define PY_ARRAY_UNIQUE_SYMBOL PyArrayXXX
#include "Numeric/arrayobject.h"

in the main source file (the one that contains the init function)
and

#define PY_ARRAY_UNIQUE_SYMBOL PyArrayXXX
#define NO_IMPORT_ARRAY
#include "Numeric/arrayobject.h"

in all the others. The symbol you choose instead of PyArrayXXX
should contain both the name of the imported module (array) and
the name of the importing module (whatever your module is called)
in order to be unique with a reasonably high probability.

The same applies to the Ufunc module, just replace "array" by
"ufunc" in the example. I have also applied the "static"
correction to the Ufunc header file, there is no reason not to do
it.

Konrad.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Hinsen                            | E-Mail:
hinsen at NO-SPAM.cnrs-orleans.fr
Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24
Rue Charles Sadron                       | Fax:  +33-2.38.63.15.17
45071 Orleans Cedex 2                    | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/
France                                   | Nederlands/Francais
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================================

I do this by modifying one header file that is included in all
the ".c" and ".i" files. In the following example this header file
is "spam.h".

------------------------------------------------------------
doit.py:

#! /usr/bin/python

import Numeric, spam

spam.funct()
print 'spam.funct completed'
------------------------------------------------------------
spam.h:

#include "Python.h"
#define PY_ARRAY_UNIQUE_SYMBOL Py_Array_API_spam
#ifndef SWIG_FILE_WITH_INIT
#define NO_IMPORT_ARRAY
#endif

#include "/usr/include/python2.1/Numeric/arrayobject.h"
void funct(void);
------------------------------------------------------------
spam.i:

%module spam

%{
#define SWIG_FILE_WITH_INIT
#include "spam.h"
%}

%init %{
import_array();
printf("called import_array\n");
%}

void funct(void);
------------------------------------------------------------
spammodule.c

#include "spam.h"

void funct(void)
{
PyArrayObject *pao;
int dims[2];

dims[0] = 100;
dims[1] = 200;
printf("Calling PyArray_FromDims\n");
pao = (PyArrayObject*) PyArray_FromDims(2, dims, PyArray_UBYTE);
printf("Completed PyArray_FromDims\n");
Py_DECREF(pao);
}
------------------------------------------------------------
compile script:

swig -python spam.i
gcc -c -Wall spammodule.c spam_wrap.c -I/usr/include/python2.1
ld -shared spammodule.o spam_wrap.o -o spam.so
------------------------------------------------------------

I use RedHat 7.1 Linux on a PC, Python 2.1, Numeric 20.1.0, SWIG 1.1 
build 883, and gcc 2.96.


> A better way is to use some defines appropriately as described by Paul 
> Dubois (I'm not sure exactly how to do it).  










From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 29 00:54:11 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:54:11 -0700
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

There's lots of ways of doing it.  Why don't you explain a bit what you're
after?

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Terry Byrne" <TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58 at posting.google.com...
> All,
>
> I need to allow clients to run a DOS batch file from an HTML form that
> resides on a Windows NT server. Using system(commandline) I always get
> an OSError.
>
> Right now we're using pcAnywhere to log on to the server and run the
> batch file that way. I want to make it simpler by using the HTML form.
>
> The batch file will always be in the same location on the server. I
> want to avoid all drive mapping complications by just running the
> batch file from an HTML form. Is there a way to do that, or is it
> disallowed for security reasons or some other?
>
> Thanks!



From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 24 05:32:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:32:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: problem using signal module
In-Reply-To: <998644640.17914.11.camel@lewis>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108240529540.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 24 Aug 2001, Ken Guest wrote:

> Using Python 1.52 for hysterical raisens, I'm trying to
> set up a handler to intercept the KILL signal on a RedHat Linux
> box.
>
> In the code I have:
>
> import signal
>
> def handler(signo, frame):
>         print signo
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>         port = 8000
> 	#straight from the Python Standard Library book...
>         signal.signal(signal.SIGKILL, handler)
>
> But this raises the following exception:
>
>   File "./compassxmlrpcserver.py", line 128, in ?
>     signal.signal(signal.SIGKILL, handler)
> RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')
>
>
> Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
>
> k.

It's really simple: you can't catch SIGKILL. Period. You might want to try
using SIGTERM instead. SIGTERM is the normal 'kill -15' (-15 is the default),
and SIGKILL is 'kill -9', which immediately stop execution of a program.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 09:54:41 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:54:41 -0500
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>
        <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com>

    Peter> Hello Python Optimizers  :-)
    Peter> After reading PEP 266, I coded the following:

    [ ... snip tests ... ]

    Peter> So it seems that *without* the execution of the proposed
    Peter> TRACK_OBJECT and UNTRACK_OBJECT there would be about a 31%
    Peter> improvement.  Unless I'm missing something fundamental, if the
    Peter> compiler can be made smart enough to know where to put
    Peter> TRACK_OBJECT and UNTRACK_OBJECT then why can't it do the code
    Peter> transformation as above?

That's the plan.  ;-) 

Actually, if I do it right, PEPTest2 would work more like

    def PEPTest2():
        m = math.sin
        c = 100000
        while c:
            l = []
            f = l.append
            for i in range(10):
                f(m(i))
            c -= 1

That is, math.sin would get cached at the earliest point where it is in
scope, which would be before the while loop.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Fri Aug 31 14:29:31 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:29:31 +0200
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com> <m3zo8g869r.fsf@allegro.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9mol2c$3bdn8$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

> The question is, what I am doing wrong here (or is it allowed at all)?
>
> ############ simple test code ##################
> from PyInline import C
>
> x = C.Builder(code="""
> PyObject* test_pyobj(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
>   int t;
>   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &t))
>         return NULL;
>   return Py_BuildValue("i", t*2) ;
> }
>
> """)
PyInline probably tries to wrap your function (which is not
needed because it is already wrapped). You should examine
the generated source-code.

>From the docs (I haven't tried it) it seems you should write:
x = C.Builder(code="""
int times_two(int t) {
    return t*2;
}
""")

Thomas




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 05:30:35 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:30:35 +0200
Subject: Creating multi-dimensional arrays
References: <9kqupp$1jt$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9kr0rq01vsu@enews1.newsguy.com>

<spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kqupp$1jt$1 at wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...
> I've been writing a couple of programs recently which use
multi-dimensional arrays of
> a predefined size, and I was wondering if there was a standard idiomatic
way of creating
> these in Python. I'm not looking to restrict the arrays to contain
specific types, so just
> pointing me to Numeric isn't the answer here.

Numeric IS the answer (or at least AN answer, and a good one:-)
because a Numeric array CAN be specified to hold arbitrary
Python objects -- use Numeric.PyObject as their type-spec.

"""it turns out that a very useful set of features of arrays
is the ability to slice them, dice them, select and choose from
them, and repeat their elements. This feature is so nice that
sometimes one wants to do the same operations with, e.g., arrays
of strings. In such cases, computation speed is not as important
as convenience.""" (http://starship.python.net/~da/numtut/array.html).


> There are two ways I've been using to create these arrays:
>
> First way (simple, pretty):
>
> >>> a = [[[0 for x in range(10)]
> ...          for y in range(10)]
> ...          for z in range(10)]
>
> Which I suppose has the advantage of documenting exactly what each
dimension indicates.
>
> Second way (more general):
>
> from copy import deepcopy
>
> def makearray(dimensions, init=None):
> if len(dimensions) == 1:
> array = [init]*dimensions[0]
> else:
> subarray = makearray(dimensions[1:], init)
> array = [deepcopy(subarray) for i in range(dimensions[0])]
>
> return array
>
> a = makearray((10,10,10), 0)
>
> I'm sure this isn't particularly efficient, though (and has no error
checking...).
>
> Is there an obvious better way I should be using (the thing that comes to
mind is a class
> which would use a 1 dimensional array and pretend to be multidimensional,
a lot like Numeric)?
>
> --
> Jon




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 13:05:58 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:05:58 -0400
Subject: PythonWin/Visual SourceSafe Integration
References: <8q8j7.70054$54.3713716@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3b8d1dd4.1875843@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <wf9j7.71171$54.3740007@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8d1dd4.1875843 at news.t-online.de...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:09:03 -0400, "Steve Holden"
> <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
[ SH bemoaned fate at loss of integration ]
> >
> >Can someone point me in the right direction and save me some debugging
time?
>
> 1) Have you looked in the registry under
>
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Python 2.1\Python for Win32\Editor\Source
> Control Module ? It should probably read pywin.framework.editor.vss
>
That was it. Thanks very much: heaven alone know why that single key decided
to go AWOL, but it was missing from the registry.

Now I can use the recently-posted checkin modification too. Just need to
work out how to get VSS to ask for a checkin comment. Or have Pythonwin do
it and pass it through...

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Aug  2 07:02:46 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:02:46 +0100 
Subject: Small feature requests (was: getting the culprit from an exceptio
	n)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BF59@intrepid>

> From:	Alex Martelli [SMTP:aleaxit at yahoo.com]
> 
	(snip)

> I agree your request is quite a reasonable one, but I believe
> you would have to phrase it as an enhancement request of
> some sort (generally done by opening it as 'a bug' on
> sourceforge, I think -- somebody more knowledgeable about
> the process pls correct me... what IS the proper way to
> submit a minor feature request such as this one?).
 
The feature request page is here -
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 23 02:14:23 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:14:23 GMT
Subject: Pythonwin VSS Integration
Message-ID: <3b849e90.248962234@news.isar.de>

Where can you do checkins with the VSS integration of Pythonwin? Only
checkouts seem to be supported. 


From jdoak at lanl.gov  Mon Aug 27 13:31:45 2001
From: jdoak at lanl.gov (Justin Doak)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 10:31:45 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>

I am not interested in a full-blown IDE, but rather in a GUI builder
for Python. (Of course, if I get a good GUI builder with an IDE, then
I'd consider using an IDE.) Specifically, the GUI builder should be
cross-platform (i.e., the code it generates should work on Windows and
Linux at least) and an open source tool is preferable to a commercial
one for cost reasons. Using Tkinter seems to be the default way of
getting cross-platform GUIs with Python, but this involves writing
relatively low-level GUI code that I'd prefer to avoid. If anyone has
any thoughts on this matter, I'd love to hear them.

JD

p.s. I sort of use an IDE right now with python-mode in xemacs. 

web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green) wrote in message news:<270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac at posting.google.com>...
> I've been looking at Python IDEs over the last week, and this is what
> I've found. On the theory that other people might be interested, here
> are the results...
> 
> 1. IDLE - comes with the standard Python distribution. USD0.00
> 
> 2. IDLEfork <http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/> "just like IDLE, only
> crunchy". An experimental fork of IDLE. USD0.00
> 
> 3. PythonWin - comes with ActiveState Python. Based on IDLE. Has a
> couple of nice, extra features, but basically the same animal. USD0.00
> 
> 4. Komodo - ActiveState's cross-language IDE. Looks like it would be
> really cool if you were working on a Perl/Python/XSLT/PHP system.
> Otherwise, PythonWin probably does what you want. USD295 a throw.
> 
> 5. PythonWorks Pro - from SecretLabs. Very cool looking IDE. Has a
> layout editor for Tk. USD395 a seat. Might take a few days to get the
> hang of.
> <http://www.secretlabs.com/products/works/index.htm>
> 
> 6. BlackAdder - from TheKompany. Has all of the features of IDLE +
> support for Ruby + GUI editor for Qt.
> <http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/> USD250 a go.
> 
> 7. VisualPython - from ActiveState. A Python plug-in for Visual
> Studio.NET Beta 2. Still in Beta itself. USD0.00 at the moment.
> 
> All of these IDEs have a debugger. None support multi-threaded
> debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.
> 
> Despite these IDE's, it seems that most Python developers use a text
> editor to program Python. Here are three theories about this:
> 
> a. Python is the kind of language that doesn't need a lot of tool
> support.
> 
> b. The IDEs that are there are fairly primitive compared to VC++ (the
> yardstick against which all other IDEs seem to be measured)
> 
> c. Python programmers are the kind of people that don't use IDEs.
> 
> If you develop or sell or otherwise know of a Python IDE that is not
> listed, please feel free to chime in. If I have listed your IDE, but
> missed out an amazing feature, please mail me ('avgreen' at 'avaya'
> dot 'com'), and I'll summarise to the list.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Alan.


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Wed Aug  1 14:54:17 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 14:54:17 -0400
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dofpzk3vq.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) writes:
> The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
> substitutions. These include ZPT, Ehydra and others. There is a *ML
> like kit for Webware, but I don't think any serious time was put into
> it, hence it is hard to recommend (for Webware).

I've become quite fond of PTL's Python-based syntax.  Here's an
explanation of why (quoting from a not-yet-public article):

        This syntax is quite different from most HTML templating
        languages, which usually look like HTML with magical
        delimiters (e.g. <%...%>, <?...?>, <!--#... -->) sprinkled
        throughout. After we'd been using the Python-inspired PTL
        syntax for a while and found we quite liked it, Neil
        Schemenauer came up with an explanation for why it works so
        well. Most templating languages assume the content is mostly
        HTML with just a few small bits of program code here and
        there. The presence of program code is therefore signalled by
        some escape sequence from normal HTML, <%...%> or
        whatever. This works nicely if the amount of HTML really does
        dominate the amount of program code. But... if you're
        following good software design principles, as you develop the
        interface you factor out repeated chunks into functions. For
        example, instead of coding 10 rows of a table as HTML, you'll
        write a loop that repeats a single row 10 times. If you follow
        this principle, the amount of HTML code continually shrinks,
        replaced by invocations of various functions and templates,
        until the density of the escape sequence in the source code is
        unreadably high.

        Without its authors ever realizing this while designing it,
        PTL turns the idea of HTML templating on its head: the default
        is program code, and there's an escape sequence into HTML,
        namely Python's notation for string literals, which is compact
        and easily readable. Functions that actually contain HTML
        therefore can look a little messy, but that's only in the
        lowest-level functions; the bulk of our PTL code simply calls
        other PTL templates.

Of course, we don't care about people using graphical HTML editors;
that would be impossible to accommodate with PTL.

--amk


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 28 08:50:32 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:50:32 GMT
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998790578.9547.python-list@python.org> <7x4rqt8z2d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b8a7be2.606820451@wa.news.verio.net> <7xpu9hter1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b8b003e.640704163@wa.news.verio.net> <7xsnecyjbm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9on4so.u3i.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

27 Aug 2001 20:06:21 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> pisze:

>> >>> dis.dis(compile(`long('123' '456')`, '', 'eval'))
>>           0 SET_LINENO               0
>>           3 LOAD_CONST               0 (123456L)
>>           6 RETURN_VALUE
> 
> Wow!  Thanks.  I think I'll just use long('123' '456') unless I really
> run out of memory.

It's not evaluated at compilation time. Here `` caused it to be
evaluated before compilation.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 16 15:02:17 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:02:17 +0200
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <mailman.997979553.20974.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-4134A3.10064016082001@news.service.uci.edu> <9lh16n$6pc$1@web1.cup.hp.com>
Message-ID: <3553883.yI6sBWrkQq@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Garth Grimm <garth_grimm at hp.com> schrub:

>> >     % python check_url.py
>> >     http://msnbc.com/nonsense (200, 'OK')
>> >     http://msnbc.com/ (302, 'Object moved')
>> >     http://w3c.org/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
>> >     http://w3c.org/nonsense (301, 'Moved Permanently')
>> >     http://w3c.org/Consortium/ (301, 'Moved Permanently')
>> >     http://ibm.com/ (200, 'OK')
>> >     http://ibm.com/nonsense (404, 'Not Found')
>> >
>> > I tried a few sites to get these examples... but not all *that*
>> > many. All the sites that end in 'nonsense' LOOK, to my human eyes,
>> > like broken links... and all the others look like content (well,
>> > except msnbc.com, which refuses to load--I think because I won't
>> > give it a cookie--and wouldn't actually be other than nonsense if
>> > it would load :-)).
>>
>> I don't know about the msnbc examples, but the 301 from w3c is
>> telling you something useful -- it prefers to be called www.w3.org.
> 
> Yes, but to a typical user, that is called a dead link.  From the
> server side, the most user friendly way to handle this is to return a
> 404 (or perhaps a 301) code and message, but then use a web page with
> a refresh of 0 to send the user to the home page.

"Moved permanently" means you follow the redirection. When trying the 
new URL, you should get 200 or a 40X whether the page works or not.

In case of 40X, tell the user "dead link", when the redirected page 
works tell the user "page moved permanently" - you may even make this 
switchable by command line parameter.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From dcinege at psychosis.com  Thu Aug 16 15:46:26 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:46:26 -0400
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
References: <mailman.997917625.3557.python-list@python.org> <i4hgl9.ok1.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B7C2312.E928D01B@psychosis.com>

gradha at iname.com wrote:
> 
> If you want security, run your python program, then use the getpass
> module.

Thank you for the offtopic answer.
 
> > Time to start looking to patch the python source me thinks...
> 
> Time to learn something about real security me thinks...

Do you have any idea who I am??



From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Thu Aug 30 13:02:10 2001
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 10:02:10 -0700
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998804559.5680.python-list@python.org> <9md62v01ne3@enews1.newsguy.com> <ac677656.0108291503.4d211cd6@posting.google.com> <9mkt0t01cno@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0108300902.4eb1c7b@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<9mkt0t01cno at enews1.newsguy.com>...
> "Tom Good" <Tom_Good1 at excite.com> wrote in message
> news:ac677656.0108291503.4d211cd6 at posting.google.com...
> > "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
>  news:<9md62v01ne3 at enews1.newsguy.com>...
> > > Currying-to-argumentlessness is a frequent enough need
> > > (since Tk &c all want lots of argumentless callables)
> > > that one may want to rename 'curry_to_argumentlessness'
> > > to something more concise and put it in sitecustomize
> > > or thereabouts.
> >
> > How about 'curry_all'?
> >
> > . . . 'curry_extra_spicy' comes to mind, too, but it is too many
> characters :-)
> 
> Another frequent need, almost as frequent as currying all
> arguments, is currying all but one, to get a one-argument
> callable suitable for filter (or map -- it seems to me that
> most of my map calls are with 1-arg callables).  Problem
> with this is that there's no obvious syntax to specify
> which one argument you want left "free" (uncurried) -- I
> think that hardwiring it to the first one would cover a
> majority of cases, but far from all.   Hmmmm....
> 
> 
> Alex

Currying all but the first one probably would work most of the time. 
For a little more flexibility, maybe specify by index which argument
to leave free:


# ---- begin code ----

from __future__ import nested_scopes

def curry_all_but(index, *args, **kwds):
    def curried_func(single_arg):
        return args[0](*(args[1:index] + (single_arg,) + 
                         args[index:]), **kwds)
    return curried_func

def test(a, b):
    print "you chose %s, %s" % (a,b)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    f1 = curry_all_but(1, test, 'B')
    f1('A')

    f2 = curry_all_but(2, test, 'B')
    f2('A')

# ---- end code ----

Output:

you chose A, B
you chose B, A


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Aug  2 23:31:02 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:31:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question about nested lists!
In-Reply-To: <f37349a7.0108021859.4f620ec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022319180.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On 2 Aug 2001, rainlet wrote:

> I use a nested list to make a 2-d array. The code follows:
> 
>     floor_member = [ 0 ]
>     for x in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor_member.append ( 0 )
>     floor = [ floor_member ]
>     for y in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor.append ( floor_member )
>     floor [ 5 ] [ 5 ] = 1
>     for n in range ( 10 ) :
>         print floor [ n ]
> #code end
> 
> I only assign floor [ 5 ] [ 5 ] = 1, but the result is :
> 
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]
> 
> 
> Is this a bug? Please help me debug. I can't see anything wrong!

>     for y in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor.append ( floor_member )

You are appending the SAME OBJECT 9 times!!!

( after first initializing the list with it )

try something like:

	floor = []
	for i in range(10):
		floor.append( [0]*10 )


Or, as a list-comprehension:

	[[ 0 for x in range(10) ] for y in range(10) ]



Or,  at least change:

>     for y in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor.append ( floor_member )


to:

>     for y in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor.append ( floor_member[:] )


the [:] slice indexing makes a copy of the list. 


This is in the FAQ, and repeated dozens of times in the list archives. 

-- Steve Majewski





From clarence at netlojix.com  Sat Aug 11 17:23:57 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:23:57 GMT
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org>
    <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Nnhd7.13$z23.814@newsfeed.avtel.net>

In article <cpy9os91sp.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>,
	Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:
> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:
> 
>> I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
>> 'natural question':
>> 
>> Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
>> necessary ?
> 
> If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
> can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
> breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
> silent break.
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

-- 
Clarence Gardner
Software Engineer
NetLojix Communications
clarence at netlojix.com


From eberkain at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 29 19:44:49 2001
From: eberkain at earthlink.net (eber kain)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 16:44:49 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
Message-ID: <b5f84cf8.0108291544.5c00de16@posting.google.com>

Every time i do this.

name = Create('Name')
file = Open('%s.btv' % name, "w")

it creates a file that looks like this

'Name'.btv

Why, and how can i do away with the set of ' '


From chrishbarker at home.net  Wed Aug 15 18:12:31 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:12:31 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997868309.21900.python-list@python.org> <7xlmklqybf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B7AF3CF.2E11DF74@home.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Oh cool.  Thanks.  Btw, is there any reason for the apparently
> unnecessary complex contagion as soon as you touch cmath?  For
> example, cmath.sqrt(1) is 1+0j instead of 1.0.

This is pretty much a function of Python's current numeric types
approach: types are automatically coerced alot, but they remain
distinct. This may change in the future in a way that could fix your
example. See:

http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0228.html

for the PEP (Python enhancement Proposal).

It works the way it does now because the cmath routimes are designed for
working woith complex numbers, so they always return complex numbers.
I'm poretty sure that the inout values are coerced to complex, and then
operated on, returning a complex result. You really would't want all
complex numbers whose imaginary component happed to be zero to be
coerced back to a float, or this would crash:

z2 = cmath.sqrt(z).imag

as a float does not have the imag attribute. If Python's nuber types are
unified, this kind of problem would disappear.

In general, you use cmath because you want complex numbers, so it makes
sense for it to return complex numbers. When I'm doing totally symbolic
math, I still think of a complex number as  a complex number, even if
the imaginary component is zero. What would you want: cmath.sqrt(1+0j)
to return?

-Chris




-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 10:22:55 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:22:55 +0200
Subject: PEP? context overloading: if wants(type): ...
References: <9klgl0$1frt$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <9km9jp110lc@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Jim Dennis" <jimd at vega.starshine.org> wrote in message
news:9klgl0$1frt$1 at news.idiom.com...
> I'm not qualified to formally champion a PEP, but I'd
>  like to raise the question here to see if it's of interest.
>
>  One feature that I find interesting about PERL is it's
>  "context sensitivity."

I can accept this, in the context of the (mythical, I
think) Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times".

> (By contrast the inability to overload
>  a function on *return* type is a limitation of C++ that I find
>  irritating and unnecessary).

You are, indeed, consistent: this IS one of the few places
where C++ did not choose to go for all-out complexity but
retain a minimum of sanity instead (have you ever programmed
in Algol-68, where no such limitation existed...?).


>  I'd propose, if I felt qualified to do so, to offer a "wants()"
>  or builtin that would allow a method to determine the desired
>  return type or "context" of an invocation.
>
>  So the use could look like:
>
> import types
>   if wants(IntType):
> return n
> elif wants(TupleType):
> return (n1,n2)
> elif wants(StringType):
> return `n`
> elif wants(VoidType): # NoneType?
> return
>
>  What am I missing about this?  What would it hurt?

If it were possible at all within Python, it would hurt the heads
 of poor guys and gals trying to understand what IS going to
happen on a given call.  Consider a typical 'skeleton'/toy/
simplified case:

def receiver(something):
    print 'receiver starts'
    if isinstance(something, IntType):
        print 'got an int',something
    elif isinstance(something, StringType):
        print 'got a string',something
    else:
        print 'got something funny',type(something),something

def sender():
    print 'sender starts'
    if wants(IntType):
        print 'sending an int'
        return 23
    elif wants(StringType):
        print 'sending a string'
        return 'vingt-trois'
    else:
        print 'sending junk'
        return None

receiver(sender())

...now what?  What is SUPPOSED to happen -- a compile-time
error (fat chance:-), run-time error (at what point in time?),
or what?  How IS Python supposed to determine what kind of
thing receiver wants -- using the time machine to see what
typetests (isinstance, here) receiver is going to perform?  And
what if we had:
    whatever = sender()
    receiver(whatever)
...?  'whatever' obviously doesn't "want" anything at all -- it's
perfectly willing and able to become a reference to anything
at all.  So what now?

All in all, my personal opinion on this idea is that it's luckily
impossible to implement in Python for dearth of 'strong'
enough "contexts" -- contexts that want to have something
to say about what's passed to them.  Just about the only
'strongish' one is unpacking-assignment:
    a,b,c,d = floop()
where it IS a runtime error if floop returns anything except
a sequence of length 4 (and the compiler can determine
this) -- still doesn't care whether it's a string, list, tuple,
or other kind of sequence, but does care about sequencehood
and exact length.  If one had a global function answering the
question "am I called in a context where a sequence of a
specific length is required, and if so what length is that" I
guess it _might_ have some marginal use.  Implementation
would require a lookahead in the bytecode stream to see if
the very next relevant opcode after the currently-executing
CALL_FUNCTION n is, or isn't, an UNPACK_SEQUENCE k --
nothing _too_ terrible I guess -- one could prototype it in
Python without breaking a sweat -- frm=sys._getframe(2),
with frm.f_lasti+3 being the index in the bytecode of code
object frm.f_code of the next opcode to be executed after
the caller of want() returns.

But it would probably still be best if it only worked in the
simplest case, with no 'lookahead' needed -- e.g., NOT for:

def f(x):
    a,b,c=x

or equivalently:

x=whatever()
a,b,c=x

The kind of black magic needed to determine from inside
whatever() that its return value is *eventually* going to
be subjected to unpacking would be a disaster.


Alex





From pibble at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 13:01:56 2001
From: pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 10:01:56 -0700
Subject: Which XML library to use?
References: <1136f745.0108060802.50812472@posting.google.com> <j4itfyx0g4.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1136f745.0108080901.6022d8f6@posting.google.com>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message news:<j4itfyx0g4.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers) writes:
> 
> > We could probably continue to use the PyXML 0.5.x release, except
> > we've found it won't work very well in Windows with Python 2.1.  (It
> > seems to work fine on Unix...)
> 
> I'm surprised that it does, because there is an xml package in Python
> 2.1, so your PyXML 0.5 installation should not be visible.

It is if you set $PYTHONPATH manually. ;-)

> > Basically, I'm trying to decide between the first two options and need
> > some help.
> > Which is "recommended" set of XML libraries? The ones now included
> > with Python 2.1.1 or the PyXML 0.6.6 release?
> 
> You did not explain much what features exactly your application
> uses. If the SAX interfaces on top of pyexpat, or minidom, is enough
> for your needs, I recommend to go with the code in the Python
> libraries. If you need a full DOM, or xmlproc, I recommend to use
> PyXML 0.6.6.

We do need full DOM support, plus the built-in XML packages seem to
have changed the interface for xml.sax.saxlib, but PyXML 0.6.x leaves
that intact. So what we've decided to do is go ahead and use PyXML
0.6.6, mainly because of the enhanced DOM support.

Thanks for your helpful response!

yours,
Preston Landers


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Aug 30 23:18:34 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:18:34 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b@posting.google.com> <x0cj7.71700$54.3813230@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <Xns910DA9411E997andytoddspamfreeyaho@203.109.250.24> <b5f84cf8.0108301837.36768171@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mmvv5$31879$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Again, you're problem is with Create.  Try this code:

class Create:
    def __init__(self,val):
        self.val = val
    def __repr__(self):
        return repr(self.val)

name= Create('Name')

print '%s' % name

class Create:
    def __init__(self,val):
        self.val = val
    def __str__(self):
       return str(self.val)

name= Create('Name')

print '%s' % name

If Create is coming out of Blender, look in dir(name) to see if the name is
already an attribute.  I don't have Blender so I can't check it for you.  If
there's a Blender mailing list, try it as well.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b5f84cf8.0108301837.36768171 at posting.google.com...
> andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd) wrote in message
news:<Xns910DA9411E997andytoddspamfreeyaho at 203.109.250.24>...
> > Steve challenged, I had to respond ;-)
> >
> > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
> > <x0cj7.71700$54.3813230 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>:
> >
> > >"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > >news:b5f84cf8.0108291125.1fffe46b at posting.google.com...
> > >> When i run this code
> > >>
> > >> name= Create('Name')
> > >> file= open('%s.btv' % name, "w")
> > >>
> > >> i end up with a file name that has a set of ' ' around the name like
> > >> so
> > >>
> > >> 'Name'.btv
> > >>
> > >> How can i fix this?
> >
> > >>>> name = Create('Name')
> > >Traceback (innermost last):
> > >  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > >NameError: There is no variable named 'Create'
> > >
> > >I think we need a little more context before we can be of much help,
> > >despite this newsgroup's famous psychic debugging abilities. That is,
> > >unless someone out there wants to prove me wrong ...
> >
> > My lack of pyschic ability lead me to;
> > >>> filename1='''Name'''
> > >>> print '%s.btv' % filename1
> > Name.btv
> >
> > So that obviously works ... hmmm
> > Then I tried;
> > >>> filename2="'Name'"
> > >>> print '%s.btv' % filename2
> > 'Name'.btv
> >
> > Bingo! This is more than likely causing your problem. Note the
combination
> > of double and single quotes. They are guaranteed to trip up the unwary.
> >
> > Obviously I skipped
> > >>> filename0='Name'
> >  because I new that would give us;
> > >>> print '%s.btv' % filename0
> > Name.btv
> >
> > The moral of the story? Try to avoid encoding quotation marks in you
> > character strings at all costs. If you do need to preserve them, be
very,
> > very careful.
> >
> > For what its worth my rule of thumb is;
> >
> > Use ' for ordinary characters,
> > Use " if you *must* include quotation marks within the string (then
watch
> > out when evaluating these strings)
> >
> > Oh, and test like buggery as well ;-)
> >
> > If you want the total lowdown on string literals (for some reason I only
> > have the 2.0.1 reference but I don't believe it has changed), look in
the
> > manual;
> >
> > http://www.python.org/doc/2.0.1/ref/strings.html
> >
> > >
> > >About all I can tell you is that you are putting quotes in somewhere
> > >they aren't required, but you'd probably wirked that out.
> > >
> > >Eber, please post the whole program, or if it's too long (say, > 100
> > >lines) or a secret then write a shorter program to demonstrate the bug
> > >and post that.
> >
> > Here, here. Although, hopefully the miniscule examples above will lead
you
> > to solve your problem.
> >
> > >
> > >regards
> > > Steve
> > >--
> > >http://www.holdenweb.com/
> > >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andy
>
> Ok, here is the top part of my code, its working up to 400 lines, so just
the top.
>
> This is being used in blender, a freeware 3d modeling tool.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> import Blender
> from Blender import NMesh
> from Blender.Draw import *
> from Blender.BGL import *
>
> # General
>
> name= Create('Name')
> shortname= Create('Short Name')
> type= Create(1)
>
>
> def export():
> file= open('%s.btv' % name,"w")
> # name and short name
> file.write("%s\n" % name)
> file.write("%s\n" % shortname)
>
> # charcteristics
> file.write("%s " % type)
> ............



From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Aug  4 17:58:41 2001
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 21:58:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
References: <mailman.996953108.7259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9khr6g$1igk$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:22:41 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

<snip>

>>>> help('dir')
> Help on built-in function dir:
> 
> dir(...)
>     dir([object]) -> list of strings
> 
>     Return an alphabetized list of names comprising (some of) the
<snip>

What is this 'help'?

I can do:
print dir.__doc__

but for
help('dir')
I get:

NameError ...




From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Sun Aug  5 19:29:22 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:29:22 -0400
Subject: getting environment variable values in 1.5.2
Message-ID: <9kkknd$53js7$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
  is'nt there any function in 1.5.2 (like os.getenv in 2.1) that can 
retreive the values of specified environment variables?

TIA,
-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 15:54:41 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:54:41 -0500
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <15226.52014.493832.124654@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>
        <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
        <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com>
        <mailman.997887028.29027.python-list@python.org>
        <tnlf54bhh07c7@news.supernews.com>
        <15226.52014.493832.124654@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <15226.54145.455645.570237@beluga.mojam.com>

    Skip> If the object bound to the object I'm interested in changed ...

Make that "object bound to the name I'm interested in"...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 25 08:34:50 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:34:50 +0100
Subject: Finalization problems
References: <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <mailman.998680317.19173.python-list@python.org>
 <dtm28JAqP5h7EwsA@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4t2$8VAqt5h7Ewox@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

One further datum, I just tried the same test that crashes under 2.1.1
with 2.0 (the code of the extension is unchanged) and that runs to
completion (all 1000) iters. My compiled debug 2.1.1 test crashes at
iter 109 and the stock distribution 2.1.1 crashes at 467.
-- 
Robin Becker


From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Aug  2 09:19:52 2001
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 09:19:52 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <cf0a7.58667$EP6.13873011@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <qnkr8uuwqdj.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote:

> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
> news:9ka118$mj8$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> > And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
> > He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
> > of figure it out himself.
> 
> What we need here are better error messages: a more explicit 'none
> object is not subscriptable' might have steered him to the problem.

Or perhaps better, a compile-time error that 'parse' has an implicit
'return None' at the end. Of course, adding that would mean that this:

def three_plus_1_problem(n):
    while 1:
       if n == 1: 
          return 1
       if x % 2 == 0:
          n = n / 2
       else:
          n = 3*n + 1

would also be an error; you'd have to throw an extraneous return at
the end. Personally, I could live with that for the extra sanity checking.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sun Aug 12 18:45:40 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:45:40 GMT
Subject: PEP: Defining Python Source Code Encodings
References: <mailman.995466090.32686.python-list@python.org> <9jmp05$47j$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <IZ1rvCA4Qpd7Ewta@gol.com>
Message-ID: <oGDd7.114381$Xr6.595307@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ian Parker:

> 3)  if I were to be cutting and pasting chunks of code from different
> source files, would things get somewhat confused if the encodings are
> different?

   Depends on the editor and the encodings. I'd expect the way this would
work is for the editor to work in Unicode internally and to use a Unicode
based clipboard format as well as others for communication with non-Unicode
editors. Encoded Python code is transformed into Unicode when loading and
transformed back into the stated encoding on save.

   There should also be sensible errors when there is an attempt to insert
characters into the editor which can not be saved in the current encoding.

   Neil





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 16:20:13 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:20:13 -0400
Subject: Lists into Strings..?
References: <910D39579tefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>
Message-ID: <G5cj7.71731$54.3815218@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"tefol" <tefol at This.Is.Not.An.Address> wrote in message
news:910D39579tefolThisIsNotAnAddr at 61.9.128.12...
> Hiya!
>
> I am wondering of the best* way to make string equal to an entire list of
> strings.
>
> >>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
> >>> sNewString = lExistingList
>
> just doesn't seem to do it.
>
> I know that I can write the list out to a file, and then read the whole
> file in,   but that seems like so much overkill to me.
>
> Thanks heaps!
>
> tefol
>
> *I let you define best anyway you like.  That seems to be the Python way.
> :-)

>>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
>>> sNewString = "".join(lExistingList)
>>> print sNewString
spamSpamSPAMbaconBacon
>>> sNewString = " AND ".join(lExistingList)
>>> print sNewString
spam AND Spam AND SPAM AND bacon AND Bacon
>>> print str(lExistingList)
['spam', 'Spam', 'SPAM', 'bacon', 'Bacon']
>>>
Is one of these what you were looking for?

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From howard at eegsoftware.com  Thu Aug 23 19:33:34 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:33:34 GMT
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
Message-ID: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com>

OK, I made up a Python class/methods to take over stderr/stdout when
running Pythonw applications and display them in a Tkinter window.
Works slick.

However, this DOESN'T work when embedding Python since pythonrun.c still
refers to stdout/stderr directly...which Windows doesn't have set to
anything useful.

How does one reroute/catch these errors?  Unfortunately, the only thing
I can think of  involves changing pythonrun.c to use the 'objects'
attached to sys.stdout and sys.stderr so they COULD be rerouted.

It seems to me someone on this list commented on catching these embedded
errors but I can't seem to find it.

Any help?

Thanks



From whisper at oz.nospamnet  Wed Aug 22 19:45:15 2001
From: whisper at oz.nospamnet (David LeBlanc)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:45:15 GMT
Subject: 4Suite
Message-ID: <9m1g6b$sg$0@216.39.170.247>

Anyone know if there's any activity around 4suite now? I subscribed to 
the mailing list and it's dead.

TIA

Dave LeBlanc


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 16:48:21 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:48:21 -0500
Subject: cannot zip file with zipfile
In-Reply-To: <3b82bada.0@216.0.152.7>
References: <3b82bada.0@216.0.152.7>
Message-ID: <15234.51477.776720.94765@beluga.mojam.com>

    Scott> I cannot seem to create a valid zip file (one that WinZip can
    Scott> open).  Here is my code:

    Scott> a = ZipFile("c:\\test.zip","w",8)

Try "wb" for the mode instead of the "w".

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 03:27:40 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:27:40 +0200
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
References: <9mk7ur$hbv$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <9mkptd015hs@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> wrote in message
news:9mk7ur$hbv$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> How to make UEdit support python?

Assuming you mean UltraEdit, I think the URL you want
is http://gurno.com/adam/py-ue.shtml -- not sure, as
I don't use UltraEdit myself, but that's what Google
suggests, and a Google search usually works well:-)


Alex





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 09:21:51 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:21:51 +0200
Subject: sorting strings by size
References: <3B7266C9.90706@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9ku2pc02cg7@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B7266C9.90706 at herts.ac.uk...
> Can anyone thing of a more eligant way of doing this? I am trying to
> extract the keys of my dict and sort them according to size, but this
> currently seems kinda crude
>
> temp = [(len(x), x) for x in motifs.keys()]
> temp.sort()
> temp.reverse()
> motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]

You can probably save a tiny bit of effort here:

temp = [(-len(x), x) for x in motif.keys()]
temp.sort()
motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]

i.e., no .reverse needed, just prepare your decorated
temporary-list appropriately.  Of course, this will
give a different order within each group of keys of
the same length, but you didn't mention that as a spec.

If you often find yourself having to sort a list based
on some function of its item, possibly with a reverse,
a different refactoring suggests itself:

def mrsort(thelist, thefun, reverse=0):
    temp = zip(map(thefun,thelist),thelist)
    # or temp = [(thefun(x),x) for x in thelist]
    temp.sort()
    if reverse: temp.reverse()
    return [x[1] for x in temp]

and once that is safely put away, just

motiflist = mrsort(motif.keys(), len, reverse=1)


Alex





From not.this at seebelow.org  Sat Aug 25 10:24:33 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:24:33 -0500
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <mailman.998606076.30996.python-list@python.org> <9m67hc09b0@drn.newsguy.com> <9m6nfh$dc$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3B87B521.15750856@seebelow.org>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> 
> Grant Griffin wrote:
> >But in all honesty, how often do you really
> >_need_ to do generic programming?  I'm guessing, only a very
> >small fraction of the time--1%, maybe?
> 
> All the time.  I work with file-like objects, which are file
> handles, or cStringIOs, or StringIOs, or wrappers around file
> handles that allow pushing data back, or wrappers around compressed
> file streams, or popen file handles, or socket connections, or ....
> 
> I also work with strings that can be "" or u"" strings.
> 
> And there's code that uses a character string just as well as
> it does a (biological) Seq object.
> 

Since my system supports dynamic typing as an option (though that part
is still in the proof-of-concept stage), it sound like you might be able
to use it.

> >Dynamic typing always comes at a cost (overhead)
> 
> Yep.
> 
> > in order to give you a benefit
> >which--in the vast majority of cases--you don't need and can't even use,
> that
> >is, generic programming.
> 
> But I do need it, and enjoy it.  I know how to do it in C++ but my
> fingers (and brain) aches thinking about it.

It just goes to show that no one system does meets everybody's needs
<wink>.

nudge-nudge-wink-wink-say-no-more-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From mkent at atlantic.net  Sat Aug 18 10:19:07 2001
From: mkent at atlantic.net (MikeK)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 07:19:07 -0700
Subject: RFC: Additional functionality for PyUnit
Message-ID: <efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1@posting.google.com>

Here's a proposed change to unittest.py that I'd like your comments
on.

I've found unit testing with PyUnit to be invaluable.  I've gotten to
the point where writing any Python code without unit tests seems,
well, perverse.  :)  But there's an inadequacy in PyUnit I keep
running into that I'd like addressed.

I often work with code that requires a large amount of work to set up
a test for, and the setup code takes an appreciable amount of time to
run.  Often, several tests that are grouped into a test case all
require a common setup.  Now, PyUnit provides us with setUp() and
tearDown() methods that we can define for each test case, which is
good.  The setup() method is run prior to EACH test method of a test
case, and the tearDown() method is run after EACH test method of a
test case.  However, when you have several test methods defined in a
test case, that all need a common setup for the tests, and the setup
is both work and time intensive, what you really want is to have a
different and additional set of setup and teardown code that is only
run ONCE for the test case.

This would let me run the difficult and long-running setup for a
series of related tests once.  It would really make unit testing my
code more doable.


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 22:10:51 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:10:51 +1000
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.4
Message-ID: <0108031210510A.14602@ike>

            Roundup 0.2.4 - an issue tracking system

Changes: See the release notes on the website or the CHANGES.txt distributed 
with the source. This is another bug-fix and feature-add release. Existing 
users are encouraged to upgrade as some usability bugs are fixed. The major 
bugs fixed are the removal of a python 2.1-specific call and cleaner 
importing of instances (you may now call instances "roundup" and it won't get 
confused).

Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with 
command-line, web and e-mail interfaces. It is based on the winning design 
from Ka-Ping Yee in the Software Carpentry "Track" design competition.

Note: Ping is not responsible for this project. The contact for this project 
is richard at users.sourceforge.net.

Roundup manages a number of issues (with flexible properties such as
"description", "priority", and so on) and provides the ability to (a) submit
new issues, (b) find and edit existing issues, and (c) discuss issues with
other participants. The system will facilitate communication among the
participants by managing discussions and notifying interested parties when
issues are edited. One of the major design goals for Roundup that it be 
simple to get going. Roundup is therefore usable "out of the box" with any 
python 2.0+ installation. It doesn't even need to be "installed" to be 
operational, though a disutils-based install script is provided.

It comes with two issue tracker templates and three database back-ends. 
Back-ends for relational databases are being developed.

Source is available at the website:
      http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Aug  2 13:32:15 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:32:15 -0400
Subject: Easier database queries
Message-ID: <F6ga7.3$si.7296@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

I've been working for some time to come up with a handy way for the
relatively new Python database user to get stuff out of a database. For
other reasons I also wanted to implement data caching. The cachequery.py
module below has the following characteristics:

1. You create a query by providing:

        the name of the table you want to query

        the column names you want returned

        the column names to use as key values

        a database connection

        an optional refresh period which specifies how old a
             cache entry (0 by default, meaning no caching
            will take place) may become before being refreshed

2. Once you have created your query, you call it with a tuple of arguments.
    This tuple must be the same length as the tuple of key names that
    you provided when you created the query.

    This call returns a sequence of database tuples (as defined in Greg
Stein's
    dtuple module, which is required), each member of which corresponds to
    a row in the set for which the defined key fields have the values given
in
    the call.

    This means that you can access the columns of each row by name.

Example:

>>> import cachequery
>>> import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
>>> conn = odbc.connect("prom2000")
>>> query = query = cachequery.CacheQuery("members",
             "Name Address Expiry".split(),
            ["MemberId"], conn)
Descriptor: (['Name'], ['Address'], ['Expiry'])
SQL: SELECT Name, Address, Expiry FROM members WHERE MemberId=?
>>> guido = query((1, ))[0]
>>> guido.Name, guido.Address, guido.Expiry
('Guido', 'Reston VA', <DateTime object for '2099-12-31 00:00:00.00' at
16eaf10>)

The code is shown below, and is also published at

    http://www.holdenweb.com/Python/PDCode/pyindex.py

Comments will be welcome.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/

import mx.DateTime
import dtuple

#################################################################
# $Revision: 4 $
# $Date: 8/02/01 1:14p $
#################################################################

class CacheQuery:

    """Defines a database query that caches database row sets.

    This object is initialized with

    tbl         table name in the database
    colnames    list of field names retrieved
    keynames    list of keys used for retrieval
    conn        database connection
    refresh     caching refresh interval

    Individual results are read by calling the object with a
    tuple of key values as an argument. If the row set associated
    with this particular set of keys is not present, or was read
    longer than the refresh interval ago, it is re-read from the
    database and stored in the content table as a list of database
    tuples, which allow columns to be accessed by name.

    Otherwise the already-cached database tuple set is returned.

    Refinements might be added, such as registering with an
    observer that might clear down all cache entries periodically
    to force a global database refresh, and using a second SQL query
    on record modified timestamps to determine whether a refresh is
    really required (which may or may not be a win for a given set
    of columns).
    """

    def __init__(self, tbl, colnames, keynames, conn, refresh=0):
        """Create a caching data set for the given table, columns and
keys."""
        self._flush()
        self.tbl = tbl
        self.refresh = refresh
        self.cursor = conn.cursor()
        condition = " AND ".join(["%s=?" % f for f in keynames])
        self.sql = "SELECT %s FROM %s WHERE %s" % \
                    (", ".join(colnames), tbl, condition)
        self.desc = dtuple.TupleDescriptor([[n, ] for n in colnames])
        print "Descriptor:", self.desc
        print "SQL:", self.sql

    def _flush(self):
        """Remove all trace of previous caching."""
        self.recs = {}
        self.when = {}

    def __call__(self, keyvals, debug=0):
        """Return the data set associated with given key values."""
        now = mx.DateTime.now()
        if self.recs.has_key(keyvals) and self.refresh and (now -
self.when[keyvals] < self.refresh):
            if debug: print "Interval:", now - self.when[keyvals]
            return self.recs[keyvals]
        else:
            self.cursor.execute(self.sql, keyvals)
            rows = self.cursor.fetchall()
            result = [dtuple.DatabaseTuple(self.desc, row) for row in rows]
            if self.refresh:
                if debug: print "Caching", self.tbl, keyvals, " at", now
                self.recs[keyvals] = result
                self.when[keyvals] = now
            return result

    def close(self):
        self.recs = None
        self.when = None
        self.cursor.close()


if __name__ == "__main__":
    #
    # Sorry, you'll need you own database details in here
    #
    import mx.ODBC.Windows as odbc
    conn = odbc.connect("prom2000")
    s1 = CacheQuery("department",                               # table
                    "DptName DptWelcome DptLnksTxt".split(),    # columns
                    ("DptCode",),                               # key
columns
                    conn, refresh=0)                            # other
stuff
    while 1:
        dc = raw_input("Department Code: ")
        if not dc:
            break
        rows = s1((dc, ), debug=1)
        if len(rows) == 0:
            print "No such department"
        else:
            for row in rows:
                print """
Department: %s Full Name: %s
Welcome Text:
%s
Links Text:
%s
""" % (dc, row.DptName, row.DptWelcome, row.DptLnksTxt)
    s1.close()
    conn.close()





From vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi  Tue Aug  7 01:26:19 2001
From: vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 08:26:19 +0300
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>

<mcherm at destiny.com> writes:

> based others are for other special purposes. In contrast, Python
> has just one kind of List (array based).

Which makes me think - why is there no linked list type? Now that we
have iterators, one might assume that linked list would almost always
be a good idea, performance-wise.

I don't care if I had to explicitly express that I want linked list,
it just should be there. Or is the concept problematic in Python, for
some reason?

-- 
Ville Vainio - http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio - ICQ #115524762
 Wild geese have no intention to cast a reflection
 Water has no mind to assume their form


From guido at python.org  Tue Aug 14 10:45:41 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:45:41 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net> <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <1rjctgABtPe7Ewxc@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cp7kw6em6n.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
> >> I've just read http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html :
> ...
> I've been reading this as well and some of the peps that go into it.
> 
> I don't seem to be able to understand all the get/set attribute stuff. 
> 
> Is the thing returned by getset only applicable to instance attributes. 
> 
> It appears on the face of it to be an object which traps lhs and rhs
> reference. If that is the case would it not be better to provide
> mechanisms to trap these references on all kinds of objects.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to get at is can getset be used to create a
> readonly module level global or can it only be used for attributes.

The getset descriptor works in cooperation with the default
__getattr__ implementation.  When a.foo is requested, __getattr__
looks up a.__class__.foo first; if this is found and it is a
descriptor, the descriptor's __get__ is called to finish the
__getattr__ request.  Ditto for __setattr__.

If you could subclass modules (you can't yet in 2.2a1, but you will in
2.2), you could do this for module attribute references, but global
variable references don't go through __getattr__ and __setattr__ on
the module -- they use the C APIs PyDict_GetItem and PyDict_SetItem
and you can't override those.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From rtexier at elikya.com  Tue Aug 28 03:52:19 2001
From: rtexier at elikya.com (Romuald Texier)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:52:19 +0200
Subject: Python 2.2a2 on Mandrake
References: <VjDi7.24159$Hr2.1424682@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <9mfid5$krb$1@news.irisa.fr>

Paul Johnston wrote:

> I can never get configure to  pass the "readline"-check. The configure
> log points to termcap.
> 
> configure:6918: checking for rl_completion_matches in -lreadline
> configure:6937: gcc -o conftest -g -O2   conftest.c -lreadline -ltermcap
> -lpthread -ldl  -lutil 1>&5
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltermcap
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> 
> I've installed the latest termcap.rpm for Mandrake but no joy.  There is
> no termcap library I can find.
> 
> What is the secret?

The library belongs to the libtermcap RPM package. To compile you may also 
need the libtermcap-devel RPM too.

Sincerely,

-- 
Romuald Texier
http://iprotools.elikya.com


From tjreedy at home.com  Sat Aug  4 16:14:52 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:14:52 GMT
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
References: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com> <aCCa7.66499$EP6.15351473@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B6B0EE0.C341C825@ActiveState.com> <mailman.996880207.6548.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0JYa7.69616$EP6.16375680@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Paul Prescod" <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.996880207.6548.python-list at python.org...
> Ironically, I got several emails from corporate virus filters
indicating
> that this batch file is in fact recognized as a virus. It obviously
> isn't a virus but Norton is getting triggered on a very ordinary bit
of
> batch file text. We will obfuscate the text enough to slip by Norton
for
> the next release of ActivePython.

Pretty ridiculous that you should have to.
Just curious if you have detected which innocent line is being
slandered so?





From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 22 21:39:58 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:39:58 -0700
Subject: Probably a stupid question... name-->method lookup
References: <3B83C8DD.37316862@earthlink.net> <9m1827$bplno$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3b8449c4.200774979@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9m1n6p$bs0c8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Well, getattr et al better answer the question.  But to answer your
question, the eval wierdness was because a was embedded in a string.  ;-)

new mantra:  If you want to know the right way to do something, post a
response showing the wrong way to do it.  - Always works.  ;-)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b8449c4.200774979 at wa.news.verio.net...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:21:34 -0700, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com>
wrote:
>
> >Does this help get you started?
> >
> >
> >>>> class A:
> >...     def a(self):
> >...             print 'A.a()'
> >...
> >>>> class B(A):
> >...     pass
> >...
> >>>> eval('B.%s' % 'a')
> ><unbound method A.a>
> >
> What was that eval weirdness for? ;-)
>  >>> class A:
>  ...     def a(self):
>  ...             print 'A.a()'
>  ...
>  >>> class B(A):
>  ...     pass
>  ...
>  >>> B.a
>  <unbound method A.a>
>
> or am I missing something?



From owen at astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid  Fri Aug 10 23:36:41 2001
From: owen at astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:36:41 -0600
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9l298d$2kt6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <9kurh302g4k at drn.newsguy.com>, Grant Griffin 
<not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:

>...
>Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are 
>presumably more
>suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how to 
>write
>the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a
>simple way to do that: what is it?

Both the array and NumPy modules allow data to be written to (or read 
from) a file, string or list (except I'm not positive about lists in 
NumPy).

So...I would try using an array to start with. But,if you find a list is 
faster (which I'd find a bit surprising because lists are less space 
efficient, but space is not speed) you could then generate an array from 
it and write it out to your file from the array.

-- Russell


From juneaftn at orgio.net  Fri Aug 31 13:33:11 2001
From: juneaftn at orgio.net (June Kim)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 10:33:11 -0700
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <5699ebda.0108310933.1646ac@posting.google.com>

I suppose the numbers to be general, such as w/w.o. point and plus/minus sign.

* The most obvious and simplest way is:

>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"")
>>> locale.format("%s",-345.6789,1)
'-345.6789'

* and if there's some problem setting the locale in the platform:

>>> def _temp(lc=locale.localeconv()):
        lc.update({'thousands_sep':',','grouping':[3,3,0]})
        return lc

>>> locale.localeconv=_temp
>>> locale.format("%s",12345,1)
'12,345'

* and the most(or more or less) obfuscated way as a one-liner is:

def sep(s):  return
re.sub(r"([-+]?\d{1,3}(\.\d*)?)(?=(\d{3})*(\.|$))",r",\1",s)[1:]

* and the most elegant way is:

def sep(s):
    p=s.find('.')
    if p==-1: p=len(s)
    for i in range(p-3,s[0] in ('+','-'),-3):
        s=s[:i]+','+s[i:]
    return s

Best wishes,

June


----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Pacquier" <fredp at mygale.org.nospam>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 8:33 PM
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?


>
> Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I believe I did my homework
> (docs, FATS, Google etc.) and the answer still eludes me :
>
> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
>
> TIA,
> fp
>
> --
> YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From marten at toppoint.de  Wed Aug 15 17:04:11 2001
From: marten at toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:04:11 +0100
Subject: How to define a callback from Python to a C program ...
References: <3B7AB97F.E2103C67@toppoint.de> <3240392.1g2EtIAgqj@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B7AE3CB.ACCCFD32@toppoint.de>


Markus Schaber schrieb:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Marten Feldtmann <marten at toppoint.de> schrub:
> 
> > I want to extend my application (not written in C) with Python and
> > I want to call from Python to my program and give my program some
> > information (say a string) ... it's something like a callback.
> >
> > Can this be done ???
>

 Ok, the language I use is Smalltalk and I've no support to write
COM server code: therefore COM is not suitable.
 
> If the language your application is written lets you execute external
> programs, than you can use pipes. Start the python program from your
> application, and then communicate with it through the pipes.
>

 Hmm ...
 
> 
> If both fails, you could open a tcp or udp socket, and communicate this
> way.
> 

 Ok, that could do it ....


Marten


From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Tue Aug 14 06:16:50 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:16:50 GMT
Subject: Dynamic attribute introspection
References: <QB%d7.117036$Xr6.617102@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <cpelqfe20g.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <mU6e7.118119$Xr6.624732@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Guido van Rossum:

> With the new class system, many uses of __getattr__ can be replaced by
> descriptors for get/set attributes; see the section "Attributes
> defined by get/set methods" in the tutorial mentioned above.

   The get/set methods will provide a better solution to some but not all
uses of __getattr__. The places where __getattr__ is still best is where the
attributes are more dynamic and where there could be a cost to enumerating
the attributes.

   PEP 252 describes how a class can define its own __dict__ implementation
and that implementation could be lazy but that looks like a lot of quite
deep work. Defining __getattr__ or __setattr__ is currently simple enough
for widespread use.

> Regarding your proposed _getAttributeNames() API, how would it
> typically find the attribute names?

   In COM and XPCOM, by reading a type library or using one of the type
information APIs. With a database, by querying the database for metadata.
Often this information may be cached and so it will then be available at
lower cost. At other times, the attribute names may be truly dynamic, such
as a browser DOM which allows attributes to be added and removed from any
element in a similar manner to Python.

> > It may also prove useful to define a mechanism to provide doc
> > strings for dynamic attributes for display by development tools.
>
> The descriptor mechanism propose in PEP 252 allows for this.

   As before, implementing a new __dict__ implementation which exposes
descriptors looks like much more work than the current mechanism. There is
the possibility here to provide a generic 'dynamic object' base class to
wrap up the details so that implementing dynamic attributes remains
tractable. It would then gain some of the regularity inherent in PEP 252,
such as being able to uniformly use __dict__ to find attributes rather than
needing to add _getAttributeNames().

   Neil





From guido at python.org  Fri Aug 24 14:34:47 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:34:47 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:43:03 +0200."
             <m15ZTbL-000wcBC@swing.co.at> 
References: <m15ZTbL-000wcBC@swing.co.at> 
Message-ID: <200108241834.OAA14601@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> I just stumbled over one of the changes in 2.2 when I got the message:
> 
> TypeError: unbound method option_value() must be called with instance
>     as first argument 
> 
> The reason for this TypeError is that my code tried to call a method
> of the wrong class -- probably an oversight when I changed the
> superclass and didn't update all references to the old superclass. As
> that method ultimately comes from the same mixin it worked fine until
> now.

Right!  I found a similar bug lurking in IDLE when I tightened the
rules for this case.

> The behavior of Python 2.2 is fine -- it told me about a potential
> error which had been lurking for a long time. The problem is that
> the error message is misleading -- the first argument is an instance. 
> 
> It would be more informative if the message looked something like:
> 
> TypeError: unbound method option_value() must be called with an
>     instance of class X as first argument (got instance of Y instead)

Done in CVS.

> BTW, that's the first problem I had with trying my code under 2.2.
> Well done, Guido.

You're welcome!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From anamax at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 13 19:41:31 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 16:41:31 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com> <psoy9os5a88.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108101407.4bd1c716@posting.google.com> <pson154nfha.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108131541.3cc051d9@posting.google.com>

Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote:
> anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:

> Sure.  In many cases that will be true, but I thought we were talking about
> the other cases here.

Since I don't believe that a single language can suit all purposes,
I don't see the point in worrying about all cases.

> > You must have missed a post or two.  If they're required, they either aren't
> > adequate, or they are complex, or both (C).
> 
> Even if required, I don't think that type declarations add that much
> complexity.

While it may be possible that type delarations doesn't "need" to add
significant complexity to understanding a language, I haven't seen any
supporting evidence.  All available evidence/experience points the other
way.

I also note that you ignored the adequacy problem.  Simple type systems
are notoriously inadequate, and they usually turn out to be complex in
subtle ways, which is arguably worse, because they lull people into
hard to handle mistakes.

Python's type system has some marvelous properties.  Feel free to
produce a static type system that is as powerful.  Then you get to
make the complexity argument.  Or, you get to make the "but programmers
don't need all that power" argument.  Or both.

  They would definitely not have any affect on the standard
> complexity metrics.  To me complexity has to do with the number of
> interconnections in your program and adding type information does
> not change that, and could in fact lower it by preventing certain
> relationships.

Static type declarations must increase the number of interconnections.
If they don't, they can't support error detection, among other things.

> It would make the language as a whole larger, and therefore more difficult to
> assimilate for programmers, but that is not quite the same thing.

So, instead of learning Alex's idioms, programmers learn type declaration
trivia.  That's a horrible trade.

> I am asking about what can
> be done about the wall that developers will hit when they *can't* get
> sufficient performance: either they will have to resort to C extensions or
> switch to another language; in either case they will have to learn a different
> language.

Interestingly enough, few of the small minority who run into that wall
seem as concerned as you.  Perhaps, on the whole, Python's tradeoff
actually is acceptable to them.

One of the bad things about Python (and almost all non-lisp languages)
is that it doesn't lend itself to easily defining new languages that
are "minor" variations on existing ones.  That's a shame.

-andy


From neila at nospam.moc  Sun Aug 26 03:06:13 2001
From: neila at nospam.moc (MegaHurts)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:06:13 -0700
Subject: Combination News/EMail/Webspace Provider?
References: <3b885985_4@Newsfeeds.com> <3YZh7.5404$t_2.968582@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <3b889d12_1@Newsfeeds.com>

Brad Bollenbach <bbollenbach at home.com> wrote in
message
news:3YZh7.5404$t_2.968582 at news1.rdc1.mb.home.com.
..
> You were probably thinking of Newsguy --
www.newsguy.com.
>
> HTH
>
> Brad
>


That's the one.  Thanks!




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 13 23:13:06 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:13:06 -0400
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997708879.1657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B789742.B0BC97F3@engcorp.com>

Oktay Safak wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the solutions suggested, I tried them
> all and they all worked very well. I understood that
> the problem with my code has been in type
> identification process mainly. Now I know how to do it
> properly. Terrific group! BTW, is it proper to post to
> the group just to thank the responders?

Regardless of whether "just thanking the responders" is
appropriate, your post above is entirely acceptable
since it showed that your problem was solved, and that 
the thought that went into the responses had another effect 
(you learned something).  That's thanks enough.  

(But you're welcome anyway. :-)

-politeness-is-always-on-topic-in-c.l.py-ly yr's, Peter


From spboulet at speakeasy.net  Mon Aug 20 02:08:48 2001
From: spboulet at speakeasy.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:36:48 +0228
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
References: <Pt6g7.27695$nX5.1385944@news1.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <to24o9gjt8c481@corp.supernews.com>

Graham Ashton wrote:

> Stephen Boulet wrote:
> 
>> Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for
>> recent code red queries:
>> 
>>                 if string.find(line, "GET /default.ida"):
> 
> Shouldn't that say:
> 
>     if string.find(line, "GET /default.ida") != -1:
> 
> instead?
> 
> Otherwise it just counts the number of unique IP addresses in your access
> log, as -1 is true. Perhaps you'll find you had fewer code red hits after
> that.
> 
> --
> Graham

Thanks for pointing that out. Actually it found one more item than the 
previous total with the correction in place (my log contains nothing but 
code red entries since I only use it as a test site).

I'll have to see what's possible as far as getting back to the people goes.

- Stephen


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Aug  5 20:01:46 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:01:46 -0400
Subject: getting environment variable values in 1.5.2
References: <9kkknd$53js7$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <n5lb7.16628$5j7.978700@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Use the os.environ dictionary.

--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:9kkknd$53js7$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de...
> Hi,
>   is'nt there any function in 1.5.2 (like os.getenv in 2.1) that can
> retreive the values of specified environment variables?
>
> TIA,
> --
> --
> Rajarshi Guha




From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug  2 11:07:21 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:07:21 GMT
Subject: Static method and class method comments
References: <9jn382$lqf$1@license1.unx.sas.com> <mailman.996103958.4468.python-list@python.org> <Xns90EA6710921D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <1201359.46VatdPhlS@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <J0ea7.61496$EP6.14462458@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Markus Schaber" <markus at schabi.de> wrote in message
news:1201359.46VatdPhlS at lunix.schabi.de...
> And it seems rather powerful for a lot of cases. But it raises the
> question what to do with combining more than one funcmodifier...

Either make the optional funcmodifier an optional list (perhaps not a
good idea)
or tell users to write simple wrapper of multiple modifiers:

def multimod(f): return mod2(mod1(f))

Terry J. Reedy





From guido at zope.com  Wed Aug  1 15:22:23 2001
From: guido at zope.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:22:23 -0400
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:47:15 +0200."
             <m15Rz9P-000wcEC@swing.co.at> 
References: <m15Rz9P-000wcEC@swing.co.at> 
Message-ID: <200108011922.PAA21817@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> Nice work!

Thanks.

> I hope it'll go into 2.2.

It will.  Tim will start merging the branch back into the CVS trunk
today or tomorrow.

> > I realize the PEPs aren't done yet, but I believe that the separate
> > introduction I wrote goes a long way towards explaining type/class
> > unification.  Read it here:
> > 
> >   http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

Temporarily: http://python.mirrors.netnumina.com/2.2/descrintro.html

> > Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
> 
> You mention that the mro-list will be constructed at class definition
> time. Does that mean that changes to `__bases__` are going to be
> outlawed? Playing tricks with __bases__ was sometimes handy.

Changes to __bases__ of built-in types have to be outlawed, but for
user-defined types it should be possible.  It's not currently
implemented, but I think it will be.

> Do you have a name for the new lookup rule?

Not yet.  Does it need one?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug  6 00:07:54 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 23:07:54 -0500
Subject: Installing module: import error "No module named 'new'"
In-Reply-To: <mlarmtca86f458ckvulgnjnkj25de37p3a@4ax.com>
References: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com>
        <mailman.997040710.1734.python-list@python.org>
        <mlarmtca86f458ckvulgnjnkj25de37p3a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15214.6170.672774.851493@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sheila> I'm a bit leery of using modules that require stuff like this
    Sheila> that isn't default. I want to be able to distribute my code, and
    Sheila> if most people are going to have "new" available to them, then a
    Sheila> module that uses it isn't easy to distribute.

I believe that since 2.1 setup.py builds the new module by default, so all
recent interpreters are toting some extra heavy artillery.  ;-)

Skip




From wware at alum.mit.edu  Wed Aug 29 08:57:16 2001
From: wware at alum.mit.edu (Will Ware)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:57:16 -0400
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu> <7xofp0yj7h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B8CE6AC.6000702@alum.mit.edu>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> If you're running linux, you should get random data by reading bytes
> from /dev/urandom.

OK, this seems to work. Though apparently /usr/dict/words is no longer
available now that I've switched to Red Hat 7.1 (which regrettably is
still on Python 1.5.2).
----------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python
import random, math

urandom = open("/dev/urandom")

def choice(lst):
     sum = 0L
     for x in range(6):
         sum = (sum << 8) + ord(urandom.read(1))
     return lst[int(sum % len(lst))]

if 1:
     # To avoid confusion, leave out 0, O, 1, l, S and %.
     units = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNPQRTUVWXYZabcdefghijkmnopqrstuvwxyz2346789"
     units = units + """!@#$%^&*+=;:,.""" # Compensate with punctuation.
     separator = ""
elif 0:
     units = "abcdefghijkmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789"
     separator = ""
else:
     units = [ ]
     separator = "-"
     inf = open("/usr/dict/words")
     for x in inf.readlines():
         units.append(x[:-1])
     inf.close()

length = 10

e = length * math.log(len(units)) / math.log(2)
print "Entropy is %g bits" % e
# Assume the attacker attempts 100 logins per second, but doesn't get
# access to a hash which would allow him to test faster.
print "Cracking time is", (0.01 * 2**e) / (3600 * 24 * 365.24), "years"

pw = ""
for i in range(length):
     pw = pw + choice(units) + separator
if len(separator):
     pw = pw[:-len(separator)]

print "Password:", pw

urandom.close()
-------------------------------------------------------



From tavis at calrudd.com  Thu Aug  2 16:15:21 2001
From: tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 13:15:21 -0700
Subject: Best practices with import?
References: <9jvnoe$om2$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3B6369D4.671C1870@alcyone.com> <Xns90ED38309C442cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50> <3B63973B.490D4B08@engcorp.com> <Xns90ED5DA29D6E3gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>
Message-ID: <f67cb2b7.0108021215.6e7425b7@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen wrote: 
> It's also very useful in some circular import situations.
> 
> Circular imports are fine where both modules use the "import <module>"
> form of import. They fail when the 2nd module wants to grab a name
> out of the first ("from module import name") and the import is at
> the top level. That's because names in the 1st are not yet available,
> (the first module is busy importing the 2nd).
> 
> As above, this is a sensible solution only if the use of the imported
> module is confined to the one function.

Actually, circular imports can still cause problems using the "import
<module>" form. Some of the "import  <module>" statements in Cheetah
(www.cheetahtemplate.org) were causing circular import problems in
Jython.  cPython was fine, unless the module was being imported using
imp.load_source() or one of its kin.  We fixed it by moving the import
statement inside the method where the module was needed.

Cheers,
Tavis


From engsol at teleport.com  Sat Aug  4 15:37:26 2001
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 19:37:26 GMT
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from ENGSOL
Message-ID: <3b6c4e0b.12598605@news.onemain.com>

"""
I'm brand new to Python, and while reading the books,
I tend to bread-board stuff just to see how it works.
I figure it's better to share....
If it's of use to other newbies, great.
If it's in error, please post a correction.
"""

#----FILE: show_mod.py

""" Sometimes you'd like to see some details
of a module you've imported. Here's one way
to do so.
"""

import os  # Or whatever module you'd like

env_list = os.environ
key_list = os.environ.keys()
dir_list = dir(os)

for keys in key_list:
    print "%-24s = %s" % (keys, env_list[keys])

# And to see even more:

for keys in dir_list:
    print "%-24s = %s" % (keys, eval("os." + keys))

# END: show_mod.py -------------------------------------------------------

""" PROGRAM RESULTS:

USERPROFILE              = C:\WINNT\Profiles\Administrator
MSDEVDIR                 = C:\Program Files\DevStudio\SharedIDE
OS                       = Windows_NT
OS2LIBPATH               = C:\WINNT\system32\os2\dll;
HOMEPATH                 = \
PROCESSOR_LEVEL          = 4
NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS     = 1
PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE   = x86
SYSTEMDRIVE              = C:
PATHEXT                  = .COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD

<the rest snipped>

"""


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug  2 19:37:16 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 19:37:16 -0400
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com> <4oA97.5883$9i1.519137@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <duodmt0itqq9t1kq6bs5dhpnk9io64p2sj@4ax.com> <ulml5sz7m.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <rdeemts4mrarb8b5ghqieio68n1jv32tl1@4ax.com> <u8zh4u0b6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <lyH97.7737$9i1.681152@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <6e990e29.0108010328.169affa5@posting.google.com> <mailman.996679503.16815.python-list@python.org> <6e990e29.0108012108.1447277b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uitg6yqxf.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier) writes:

> Well, I did this long before I've heard of GNU and even before our
> BDFL started working on a new language called "Python." The C library
> getopt() just didn't do all I wanted (allow options after arguments
> [this is on thing I really dislike about python's getopt -- it doesn't
> allow that; (...)

Of course, the negative consequence is the inability for such an
application to take normal (non-optional) arguments that happen to
start with an option character, or the option parsing has to provide a
way to quote such an occurrence.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Aug  8 08:45:44 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:45:44 -0400 
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C9@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

Thanks.  I will look into the shell script, Python, and Perl suggestions
deeper.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Manoj Plakal [mailto:plakal-nospam at nospam-cs.wisc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:25 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Replacing text for all files in a directory


Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <mailman.997215734.1690.python-list at python.org>, Kemp
> Randy-W18971 wrote:
>> Great!  But how can I apply this to all files in a directory, where the
>> directory contains 20 files, without listing each file individually?
> 
>       for i in *; do
>  sed -e "s/Have a good day/jump off a cliff/g" $i > tmp
>  mv tmp $i
>       done

        Perl has some useful command-line options
            for doing in-place edits:

              perl -p -i -e "s/foo/bar/g;"  dir/*

           will replace "foo" with "bar" in all files inside directory
           "dir". But beware the power of the Dark Side,
           this stuff can degenerate rapidly if you are tempted
           to do more complicated stuff with it.

           Manoj





From joek at quantiva.com  Wed Aug 22 11:37:58 2001
From: joek at quantiva.com (Joe Kelly)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 08:37:58 -0700
Subject: Possible BUG in Python2.x sre and threaded import locking
Message-ID: <fb060039.0108220737.2f05d2fd@posting.google.com>

There appears to be a bug in the way Python2.x does import locking on
sre.  This is illustrated by the following code fragments.

$ cat retest
#!/usr/local/bin/python
__import__("ret")

$ cat ret.py
#!/usr/local/bin/python

import time, thread, string
#import time, thread
import re
#import pre
#re=pre

def mythread():
        time.sleep(2)
        url = "hello there"
        url = re.sub(" ", '', url)
        print "hello from threadland", url

thread.start_new_thread(mythread, ())

url = "hello main there"
url = re.sub(" ", '', url)
print "main", url
time.sleep(5)
print "goodbye", url


If you run retest as shown above you get:
$ retest
main hellomainthere
goodbye hellomainthere

It never runs the code in the thread.

If you run python on ret.pyc directly you get the correct/expected
result:
$ python ret.pyc
main hellomainthere
hello from threadland hellothere
goodbye hellomainthere

If you replace sre with pre by commenting out line 5 and uncommenting
out line 6 and 7 it works correctly/as expected:
$ retest
main hellomainthere
hello from threadland hellothere
goodbye hellomainthere

I've also noticed some strange interaction with other imports, i.e. if
you go back to the original ret.py and comment out line 3 and
uncomment line 4 (just don't import the string module) you get the
following:
$ retest
main hellomainthere
goodbye hellomainthere
hello from threadland hellothere

That is the thread gets executed at the end or sometimes not at all:
$ retest
main hellomainthere
goodbye hellomainthere

Again, calling ret directly seems to work.
$ python ret.pyc
main hellomainthere
hello from threadland hellothere
goodbye hellomainthere

This has been tested on Solaris 8 running on Intel:
$ uname -a
SunOS machine 5.8 Generic_108529-07 i86pc i386 i86pc

The above output was generated by python 2.0 compiled with threading
on:
$ python
Python 2.0 (#1, May 13 2001, 00:55:08)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>

It exhibits the same behavior under python 2.1.1:
$ python
Python 2.1.1 (#22, Aug 20 2001, 17:12:35)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

Has anyone witness similar behavior? Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe Kelly


From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 11:57:00 2001
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 08:57:00 -0700
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com> <G0RgKIAEUAd7Ew$e@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <b0c5da3a.0108120756.48d756a8@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> I have also managed to get a PDF App to pop up using COM directly, but
> can't seem to get an open document into it, whine
> 

Untested code cut from another app:

import os, re, thread, sys

assoc=os.popen("assoc .pdf").read()
assocA=re.findall("=(.*)\012",assoc)[0]
ftype=os.popen("ftype %s"%assocA).read()
ftypeA=re.findall('=(".*?")', ftype)[0]

def pdfPrint(fn):
    cmd= ftypeA.replace("/","\\")+" /p /h " + fn.replace("/","\\")
    os.system(cmd)

def pdfStart(fn):
    cmd= ftypeA.replace("/","\\")+" " + fn.replace("/","\\")
    # Add 'start' to the command then cmd won't block on NT. 
    thread.start_new_thread (os.system, (cmd,))

if __name__=="__main__":
    pdfPrint('xxx.pdf')



--Darrell


From joesalt at ireland.com  Wed Aug 15 10:33:59 2001
From: joesalt at ireland.com (JS)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 07:33:59 -0700
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com> <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <d9deee30.0108150633.b8433f7@posting.google.com>

One question regarding handling directories from the example below...

>>> checkURL('http://www.slashdot.org')
1
>>> checkURL('http://www.slashdot.org/notadirectory')
1

In the second example, the directory doesn't exist, yet I am returned
1? Is there a way to handle this?

As always, Thanks!


Alex <new_name at mit.edu> wrote in message news:<etd3d6uf05b.fsf at lola-granola.mit.edu>...
> import urllib
> 
> def checkURL(url):
>     try: urllib.urlopen(url)
>     except IOError: return 0
>     return 1
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     assert checkURL('http://slashdot.org')
>     assert not checkURL('http://foo')
>     
> HTH.
> Alex.


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Wed Aug  8 18:40:06 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:40:06 GMT
Subject: ftplib question
References: <9ks6ai$bq4$1@nntp1-cm.news.eni.net>
Message-ID: <m3wv4edvk4.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

Q1: Check the docs, and you might find cwd useful.. 

Q2: How to schedule it in python.. well 

while 1:
        update()
        time.sleep(24*60*60)

But I think finding a scheduler in the os you have and launch the
python-script from there... 


| Question#1 : I'm not sure how i can change to the directory i want to upload
| the files to. Any help would be appreciated.
| Question#2 : does anyone know of a python module that allows me to schedule
| tasks?

        /Andy



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 03:13:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:13:26 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b7de709.3497459 at wa.news.verio.net...
    ...
> >    y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
> >
> >How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite

[which has been shown to be false, btw]

> Considering your proposed example, can you state with assurance
> exactly what order things are done, including side effects?

Sure -- Python guarantees left-to-right behavior of this statement.
First wower is called, then y.a is assigned, then b,c,d, then x.e, in this
order.  But of course it wouldn't be wise to rely on this!-)


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 01:35:13 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:35:13 -0400
Subject: Plethora of strange cracker newbie questions
Message-ID: <3B85E791.E18BA991@engcorp.com>

Is it just me, or does it look like there's a new world-wide
organization of Python newbie crackers all asking questions 
here with an eye towards creating some Python script bent 
on world domination or at least other nefarious deeds?

Recently we've had a spate of newbies who "need" to send email 
(bulk mailer slime?), ping stuff (target discovery), interact
with IRC servers (anyone not read http://grc.com/dos/intro.htm 
yet?), and several others I've already forgotten, including
some which as I recall would be useful in building elements
of a virus.

Whatever happened to the good old newbies who asked about
how to create a file so they could track their video tape
collections on their computers?  Why are they jumping 
straight to low-level script-kiddie stuff which few of 
us even get a chance to do?

Not that I don't like newbies or anything, but maybe it
wouldn't be wise to be quite so blindly helpful as most 
c.l.py inhabitants have been in the past.  Maybe some
hesitation and just dumping working source at them would
be advisable.

Am I just overly sensitive?

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug  2 23:35:59 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 03:35:59 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9kbip102o37@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.996784446.25354.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mk0as.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3b6a1369.1121182545@wa.news.verio.net>

On 3 Aug 2001 01:41:48 GMT, carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink) wrote:

>In article <mailman.996784446.25354.python-list at python.org>, Frank
>"Finger Fart" Lomax wrote:
> 
>>Considering that I write 10k-50k lines of Python a day . . . 
>
>Fifty thousand lines?  Okay, assume each line has two words, that's
>100,000 words.  Now assume you type at 100 words per minute, and
>never stop to think.  That's *over 16 hours* of typing.  Per day.
>
>Are you counting blank lines here?  Maybe counting code reuse?  Do
>you never sleep?
He needs 'print >>':

myDailyOutput = open('productivityEvidence.py','w')
print >> myDailyOutput, 'print "Hello World!"\n', '#KLOCs-make-me-look-good\n'*50000

;-)


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug  2 19:45:12 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 19:45:12 -0400
Subject: OT: Map generation/plotting
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <mailman.996777025.30145.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ug0bayqk7.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     David> Does anyone have experience with or pointers to libraries or
>     David> utilities that would simplify the job of displaying maps and
>     David> translating locations (aka lat/long) to the map for highlighting?
> 
> Mapblast?  Mapquest?

Hmm, thanks, although I may not have been clear enough :-)

Those will certainly work interactively, but at least last time I
looked, those sites didn't publish source code or libraries that I
could use in my own applications, do they?  (Just peeked again and
didn't see anything, aside from some help on embedding stuff in web
pages which won't work for what I'm aiming for)

Although presumably I could use them to grab GIFs of certain regions,
although I'd have to check again to see how precise I could determine
lat/long of the diagrams.  They give me a current point, but not how
much the map represents in total.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Aug 25 07:56:41 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:56:41 -0700
Subject: Re and Me.
References: <toevhkp1hlem92@corp.supernews.com> <9m83nh$qjn2$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9m841f$shvr$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Oops... forgot something:

txt = """eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim
ad
exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat.
ex ea commodo url=consequat&. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in
sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt
facilis est er expedit distinct. Nam liber te conscient to factor tum
poen legum odioque civiuda. Et tam neque pecun modut est neque nonor et
imper ned libidig met, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed ut labore et
dolore magna url=aliquam& makes one wonder who would ever read this stuff?
Bis nostrud exercitation ullam mmodo consequet. Duis aute in voluptate
velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. At vver eos et
mollit anim id est laborum Et harumd und lookum like Greek to me, dereud
accusam dignissum qui blandit est praesent luptatum delenit aigue
excepteur sint occae. Et harumd dereud facilis est er expedit distinct.
voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu url=fugiat& nulla pariatur. Excepteur
Nam libe soluta nobis eligent optio est congue nihil impedit doming id
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, set eiusmod
tempor incidunt et labore et dolore magna aliquam. Ut enim ad minim
veniam, quis nostrud exerc. Irure dolor in reprehend incididunt ut
labore et dolore url=magna& aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud
minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut
liquip  -#Sven Hartge """


import re
p = re.compile('url=(\w*)&', re.IGNORECASE)
print p.findall(txt)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com



From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 29 21:40:34 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:40:34 GMT
Subject: Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.
References: <9mk4du$eik$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <2c6rotseu01hj8eo2tdqhim99br5e28tq2@4ax.com>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:20:52 -0700, "Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <9mk4du$eik$1 at mail.cn99.com>:

:Where can I get Apache for windows??Thanks.
:

Try http://www.apache.org

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From kern at myrddin.caltech.edu  Wed Aug 29 18:31:48 2001
From: kern at myrddin.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 22:31:48 GMT
Subject: Strange Numeric behavior for failed assignment
References: <mailman.998458473.11502.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mjqgk$t4o@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

In article <mailman.998458473.11502.python-list at python.org>,
	Chad Netzer <cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
> I noticed the following and was wondering if it makes any sense:
> 
> Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219 
> (prerelease)] on linux2
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>>> from Numeric import *
>>>> a = array((0))
>>>> a
> 0
>>>> a[0]=None
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation
>>>> a
> -1
>>>> Numeric.__version__
> '17.1.2'

Bizarre.

Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219 (prerelease)] n
linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
o>>> import Numeric
>>> Numeric.__version__ 
'17.3.0'
>>> a = Numeric.array((0))
>>> a
0
>>> a[0] = None
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation
>>> a
-1
>>> 
>>> a.shape
()
>>>  
[myrddin: ~] $ python2
Python 2.0.1 (#0, Jul  3 2001, 12:36:30) 
[GCC 2.95.4 20010629 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Numeric
>>> a = Numeric.array((0))
>>> a
0
>>> a[0] = None
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: an integer is required
>>> a
-1
>>> Numeric.__version__ 
'20.1.0'

> Should a failed assignment set the assigned value to -1?  It seems to 
> me that the exception should be enough.

Looking at the code for Numeric v20.1.0, it seems that the C functions that
handle the __setitem__'s assign the value of the data pointer to the return
value of the Python API's PyXXX_AsYYY functions. These API functions use a -1 
return value to signify an error. E.g.

  static int INT_setitem(PyObject *op, char *ov) 
  {*((int *)ov)=PyInt_AsLong(op);return PyErr_Occurred() ? -1:0;}

Some rearrangement of the setitem functions could eliminate the risk of 
overwriting data, but it might possibly cost performance.

If you think the behavior should change, post a bug report at Sourceforge and
send a message to numpy-discussion.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Aug  1 07:26:50 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 13:26:50 +0200
Subject: how to save xml (create with fuctions in xml.dom.minidom
References: <mailman.996659341.21784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j466c8ggw5.fsf@artagnan.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> writes:

> belowing  is example from document,but how to save newdoc to a file,
> I use writexml,but failed.
> 
> from xml.dom.minidom import Document
> newdoc = Document()
> newel = newdoc.createElement("some_tag")
> newdoc.appendChild(newel)

If I do

newdoc.writexml(open("/tmp/foo.xml","w"))

it works fine for me.

Regards,
Martin


From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Aug 25 01:44:09 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:44:09 -0700
Subject: Question about Print Header Info***PLEASE HELP***
References: <9LDh7.2431$Rn.140430@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <toeemrodupvif6@news.supernews.com>

"PMusselman" <test at pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:9LDh7.2431$Rn.140430 at news.pacbell.net...
> I am new to programming in Python.  I have a question about print headr
info
> and batch printing
>
> My boss has given me several CDs that need to be printed. He wants the
> hardcopy to contain the file path location and file name in the header.
The
> reason for this request is because there are files that contain the same
> file name on the cd but in different subdirectories.  I have not found a
> simple way to do this.  To make matters more diffcult the files are not
text
> or docs files.
>
> My question is there a way to create a script in Python to automatically
> print the file path/filename.  And is the a way to automate this process
for
> printing so I do not have to print each file automaically.  Any help would
> be great.

Yes, there is. Both "Learning Python" and "Programming Python" have sections
on common file and directory manipulation tasks. Directory search is one
of the more common. If you use a standard recursive descent algorithm to
scan the directory structure, then you simply pass the path *to that point*
to the next invocation, and let it append the next level. Works like a
charm,
and really has nothing to do with Python, per se.

Of course, if you have to invoke some other utility to do the printing (you
said
they are not .txt files), then you have to live with what that utility does
for
headers, or else fix the utility.

John Roth.

> Thanks
> Pat Musselman
>
>




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 01:16:31 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:16:31 -0400
Subject: Real.py
In-Reply-To: <9m30o80263t@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELDLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> Hmmm, there definitely seems to have been some major recent
> restructuring of ftp.python.org and all of its mirrors -- I
> can't find real-accurate.py anywhere either.

When python.org got rehosted about a month ago, a decision was made to drop
the old contrib directories.  They hadn't been maintained or updated in a
couple of years, and huge steaming mounds of the content appeared to have
become irrelevant (or worse) in the interim.  Most of the few things of real
value are better gotten elsewhere now (e.g., John Skaller's Interscript has
a home on SourceForge now; doctest is now in the std library; and so on).

Unfortunately, there are at least a few cool packages that lived only there,
like Jurjen's N.E. Bos's amazingly compact implementation of the
constructive reals.  Nothing I can do about that, but if some group from the
community would like to sift through all of it and provide a new home for
the parts worth salvaging, I bet we could talk Guido into handing over an
archive tarball.




From paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca  Tue Aug 28 17:17:15 2001
From: paul.johnston4 at sympatico.ca (Paul Johnston)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:17:15 -0400
Subject: Python 2.2a2 on Mandrake
References: <VjDi7.24159$Hr2.1424682@news20.bellglobal.com> <9mfid5$krb$1@news.irisa.fr>
Message-ID: <_jXi7.27467$_8.2339219@news20.bellglobal.com>

Romuald Texier wrote:

> Paul Johnston wrote:
> 
>> I can never get configure to  pass the "readline"-check. The configure
>> log points to termcap.
>> 
>> configure:6918: checking for rl_completion_matches in -lreadline
>> configure:6937: gcc -o conftest -g -O2   conftest.c -lreadline -ltermcap
>> -lpthread -ldl  -lutil 1>&5
>> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltermcap
>> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>> 
>> I've installed the latest termcap.rpm for Mandrake but no joy.  There is
>> no termcap library I can find.
>> 
>> What is the secret?
> 
> The library belongs to the libtermcap RPM package. To compile you may also
> need the libtermcap-devel RPM too.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
It didn't hit me 'til later to do a search for libtermcap.so . All was 
right once installed.  Thanks Romuald for your help.  The devel version of 
this library wasn't needed - go figure. 



From shane.anglin at mtni.net  Tue Aug 28 15:39:58 2001
From: shane.anglin at mtni.net (Shane Anglin)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:39:58 -0400
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
Message-ID: <LPEPIHAHAFAEFFNAIEJJMEGHDKAA.shane.anglin@mtni.net>

In very abbreviated form:  This is not a functional anything... I have to
use 3 pages to accomplish this task using HTML, Python, and PostgreSQL.

1- App1.py is used to submit a variable that is passed to App2.py.
2 - App2.py gets variable from App1.py, then, depending on variable value,
pulls other content from database and creates a HTML form for entering more
data.
3 - App3.py should get data that was submitted from App2.py.

My problem is getting App2.py to place the variable sent from App1.py and
combine that variable with all variables from App2.py, and sending all to
App3.py for processing... in essence, carrying over variables from many
pages and lumping them all together into the last page.

Is there a way to place it into the input stream when using POST... or
should I use GET and then how and where to place it into the QUERY_STRING?


Non-working example:
--app1.py:
print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app2.py'>
print '<input type="text" size="10" name="var1">'
print "<P><INPUT type='submit' value='Submit'></P>"
</FORM>
#SUBMIT

--app2.py:
form = cgi.FieldStorage()
VAR1 = form["var1"].value
#some database stuff happens
print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app3.py'>
print '<input type="hidden" name=VAR1>'   # this doesn't work..it seds a
literal string of VAR1 and not the variable
print '<P><input type="text" size="10" name="TEXT1"></P>
print "<P><INPUT type='submit' value='Submit'></P>"
print "</FORM>"
#SUBMIT

app3.py:
form = cgi.FieldStorage()
# print all enviromental variables
for key in os.environ.keys():
        print key + os.environ[key] + '<br>'
print form["VAR1"].value
print form["TEST1"].value


Thanks,
Shane Anglin
shanenaglin at bigfoot.com




From chrishbarker at home.net  Mon Aug 27 20:29:59 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:29:59 -0700
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <3B8A970B.FEBA62DB@home.net> <1485121.XDDq0ZmV6g@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3B8AE607.FB6598C0@home.net>

Markus Schaber wrote:

> >>>> [l[i] for i in range(len(l)) if (i in indexes)]
> 
> Why not [l[i] for i in indexes] ?

because I'm an idiot... 

This simple notation indicates why list comprehensions are so nice.. but
I would still much rather it be built in.

-Chris




-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From dalke at acm.org  Wed Aug 15 19:43:41 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:43:41 +0100
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com> <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lfq7c$kn0$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Paul Rubin:
>Python seems to be in a somewhat dangerous phase of development right
>now, where a lot of the design still isn't worked out, but lots of
>people are using it, which means any mistakes made are hard to undo
>because people's code will break.  Instead, kludges get tacked on,
>potentially resulting in an eventual Perl-like monstrosity

Huh?  "right now?"  There's almost nothing being dicussed except
for '/' which will break even 5+ year old code.  The new keyword,
'yield', is only enabled with a special operation.  Nested scopes
very carefully tried to handle things the right way.  Iterators are
done using new methods not used by old code, and done inside of a
long documented __reserved__ naming convention.  New functions are
added to builtins, which is as expected.  Garbage collection
doesn't break the older reference count semantics.  Deprecated
modules, like regex, are still distributed - as well as very
old SGI specific modules that even I as an (ex-)SGI developer never
used.  The "print >>" trick (yes Alex, I know you don't like it :)
doesn't break existing code.

I think it's a "dangerous phase of development" because this last
year is the first time where Guido could work full-time on Python
development, with others, and not have to worry about fighting
with license agreements.  So it's a major change in the way Python
is developed, and the community hasn't fully worked how how to
deal with that change.  At the same time, more and more people
are using Python (good!) asking reasonable questions comparing
Python to other languages, but not knowing the full reasons that
went into certain decisions.  Reasons that were fleshed out years
ago - long enough that the people who worked on it are not longer
interested in justifying their decisions, but hard to trawl from
the sea of back newsgroup messages.

BTW, people's code may break no matter what is done.  Consider adding
a new global function called 'spam'.  Then the following will
break:

try:
  eval("spam")
  raise AssertionError
except NameError:
  pass

Should it then not be allowed to add new functions?

> (why is there a special type of object for xrange?).

First off, xrange is an *old* type - added in 1993, according to
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Gramma
r/Grammar

Is your concern that there's a 'range' and an 'xrange', or
that 'xrange' is implemented as a type instead of a class?

I'm guessing the first.  range makes a list of the requested
size and values.  xrange lets you iterate over those values
without builing an explicit list.  It happens that they are
often used in the same way.  There was an attempt to make
xrange more list-like, but as no one used that code (it
contained bugs that no one reported in years) that's been
removed.  People only use xrange as "for i in xrange(..."

The problem is those two do similar things, but there's no word
in English which really captures that difference well.

>If you look at the evolution of Scheme, the designers tried very hard
>to get things right from the start, rather than doing what was
>convenient and fixing it later.

"right" is subjective.  My brain was warped in its formative stage
by years of BASIC programming, so Scheme doesn't slither in as well
as Python.  People who use my code do scientific programming in
Python, C or C++.  Python is a more "right" solution than Scheme.

>Here's something I don't understand: why is it that
>the default value of a function arg is evaluated just once, instead of
>whenever the function is called?  The manual has a warning about that
>and examples of how to program around it, but it seems like poor
>design to need such a warning.

I don't know, but my first thought is on simplicity.
Should the following be legal?

def eggs(a = xyz):
  print a

xyz = "Hello"
eggs()

Currently this fails, since xyz is not defined during 'def eggs'.
If the default value is evaluated at call time, you have to keep
the static scope of the 'def eggs' around.  Especially in pre-2.0
days it would be worse, since if 'eggs' stores its context, that
context also stores a referece to 'eggs', which would cause leaks
in the old-style memory manager.

For that matter, what about

def eggs(a = eggs("Bye")):
  print a
eggs()

Should this print
  Bye
  None
?

Or, when should

def spam(x = 1/0):
  pass
spam()

raise its exception?

Or, suppose you have (taking the code from
http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/ackermann/ackermann.python )

def Ack(M, N):
    if (not M):
        return( N + 1 )
    if (not N):
        return( Ack(M-1, 1) )
    return( Ack(M-1, Ack(M, N-1)) )

def blah(x = Ack(3, 6)):
  print x

blah()
blah()
blah()

If as you suggest the default value is recomputed, then would there
be just as many notes in the documentation pointing out that "the
default arguments are computed every time the function is called"?
And to achieve their needs, wouldn't people have to do workarounds like

_default_ack = Ack(3, 6)
def blah(x = _default_ack):
  print x

just like now when people do workarounds like

def yadda(x = None):
  if x is None:
    x = []

(or for the very picky where you may want x to take on any value,
including None, but if not specified then to create a new list

_default_x = []

def yadda(x = _default_x):
  if x is _default_x:
    x = []
)

Just thoughts.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Wed Aug 15 11:59:49 2001
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 15:59:49 GMT
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com> <Xns90FEA401A2357duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9le69l$bha$1@news.mathworks.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at nospamrcp.co.uk> wrote:
> Rob Andrews <rob at jam.rr.com> wrote in news:3B7A87D8.6F75B13F at jam.rr.com:

>> I just posted this to the Python Tutor list, so please forgive the
>> cross-posting. I'm just academically curious about this.
>> 
>> *Learning Python* (pp. 99-105) points out that declaring globals from
>> within functions is possible, and shows how. I'm trying to think of
>> *why* one might want to declare or modify a global from within a
>> function.
> You are confused over what the 'global' keyword actually does.

> Most languages, as you say, require you to declare global variables outside 
> functions. Most languages also require you to declare variables. Python 
> does not require you to declare any variables anywhere (even global ones), 
> instead you just assign to them.

> The 'global' keyword doesn't create a new global variable. All it does is 
> to force references to that name, within that local scope, refer to a 
> global variable. If you assign to the variable declared as global then you 
> will update its value. If you reference the variable then you get its value 
> if it exists, or you get an exception if it doesn't exist.

No, Rob is right:

  >>> def f():
  ...    global x
  ...    x = 666
  ... 
  >>> f()
  >>> x
  666

You can use 'global' to define a new variable.


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Aug  3 04:33:53 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 10:33:53 +0200
Subject: Unicode File Conversion
References: <3B69158B.40EB156C@yahoo.com> <j4puaea0d1.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3B69E502.48DA5961@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j4hevpa6fi.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tksee Lhsoh <tksee at yahoo.com> writes:

> I would like to convert unicode strings to strings of a ceratin code
> such as ISO 8859-1 and ISO 8859-2 in Europe, ISO 8859-7 in Greece,
> EUC and Shift-JIS in Japan,...
>
> And would be really glad if there are any converters!

To convert a Unicode string to ISO 8859-1, just do

thestring.encode("iso-8859-1")

The same works for all of ISO 8859; the relevant codecs are supported
in the standard python library. For other codecs, please have a look at

http://sourceforge.net/projects/python-codecs

There are specific codecs for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean encodings
in the practicecodecs CVS directory, and an iconv codec to expose all
codecs of your Unix C library.

Regards,
Martin



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Aug 23 19:40:41 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:40:41 -0700
Subject: I dont get this!
References: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>
Message-ID: <3B859479.3D6448A0@alcyone.com>

Peter Sundling wrote:

> Help! :)
> I have been programming in python for some time now, and today i
> found a strange bug in my code i cant get rid of...
> 
> Here is a code snippet where something is wrong somewhere:
> 
> def check_hilo(i):
>         if value[i] < low[i]:
>                 return 1
> 
>         if value[i] > high[i]:
>                 return 2
> 
>         return 0
> 
> ...Simple, huh? I have never had any trouble with something like this
> before.
> The thing is that this procedure always returns 1.
> I have tried to rewrite this little source code a couple of times,
> in many different ways, and it still returns 1!

The problem lies elsewhere.  You'll have to give us a more relevant
snippet of the actual code involved if you want help tracking it down.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    Polly Wanna Cracka? / http://www.pollywannacracka.com/
 The Internet resource for interracial relationships.


From strnbrg at c532352-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com  Sat Aug 18 12:49:02 2001
From: strnbrg at c532352-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (Theodore D. Sternberg)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:49:02 GMT
Subject: Confused about bound functions
Message-ID: <20xf7.12187$P15.6890321@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>

Why do I need to pass in a self argument, in the
last line of the following program?

------------------------
class C:
    pass

c = C()
cmd = 'def foo(self): print "I am foo"'
exec cmd in c.__dict__

c.foo(c)
------------------------

I'd like to be able to say simply "c.foo()".
How can I arrange for that?

Theodore Sternberg
Fremont, Cal. USA


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Wed Aug 22 11:25:19 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:25:19 +0100
Subject: UserDict
References: <mailman.998511753.2023.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m1boj$un6$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Matthew D. Wood wrote in message ...
>Are you allowed to overwrite the __init__ method of a class that
>inherits from UserDict.UserDict ?

Yes.

                    Andrew





From frithiof.jensen at ted.ericsson.dk  Wed Aug 22 04:53:07 2001
From: frithiof.jensen at ted.ericsson.dk (Frithiof Andreas Jensen)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:53:07 +0200
Subject: SAX/SAX2 Programming Examples?
Message-ID: <998470388.678240@robert>

Hi,

I am writing as Horse-Racing application - and I need to extract race
results which are presented in web-pages and collect them in a SQL
database - probably GadFly, thus keeping everything Python.

>From the execellent textual description, I get the impression that SAX/SAX2
(xml.sax) would be just the thing to use, however not being a particular
good OO programmer I have some difficulty working out how to *use* the xml.*
modules.

Could anyone be so kind as to direct me to some examples?


regards,
Frithiof Jensen.






From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Aug 25 18:25:18 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:25:18 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <mailman.998770657.716.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4v8gotgplue1vt85o27j41knuofd3b83mj@4ax.com>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:16:39 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
<ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.998770657.716.python-list at python.org>:

:I have no experience with msvcrt, but I'm guessing that it might be that
:msvcrt.locking() requires the descriptor to be the same when unlocking as when
:locking.

Thanks. That sounds like a good tip. I will try to work on that. I think
I can figure out a way to handle it.

:Also, where is this posixLock so that I can look at it?

Well, it didn't have any bearing on this question, so I didn't post it.
But it is my own code (not yet tested). Since you ask, here it is:

''' posixLock.py

class lockobject
supports the same function calls as
winLock.lockobject
export to lockobject.py: a wrapper module
around the win and posix lockobjects
'''

import fcntl

class lockobject:
    def getReadLock(self, lockfilename):
        fcntl.flock(lockfilename.fileno(), fcntl.LOCK_SH)

    def getWriteLock(self, lockfilename):
        fcntl.flock(lockfilename.fileno(), fcntl.LOCK_EX)

    def unlock(self, lockfilename):
        fcntl.flock(lockfilename.fileno(), fcntl.LOCK_UN)



And then there is the wrapper class, lockobject:

''' lockobject.py

a class for supporting file locking across
posix and windows platforms. This class is an abstraction
that wraps the locking details between these two
platforms.

Wrapped methods:
getReadLock(lockfilename)
getWriteLock(lockfilename)
unlock(lockfilename)

A LockObject is an object which will be read from and
written to. However, there may be multiple concurrent
processes trying to access the object. In order to prevent
data corruption, write operations must have exclusive
access. Read operations can occur simultaneously with no ill-effects.
The lockfilename is the name of a file, different from the
LockObject, which the LockObject must obtain an appropriate
type of lock on (a shared lock for reading, an exclusive
lock for writing), before any attempts at reading data from or
writing data to the Lock Object occur.

It is important that when a read or write process has finished,
that the LockObject unlock the lockfile so that other processes
can proceed. (All other processes attempting to read or write
may be blocked, depending on the type of lock.)

Note: On the Windows platforms, when a lock is requested (either
a read or write lock), there will be a maximum of ten attempts
made in one second intervals to obtain a lock on the lockfile. If
all of these attempts fail, the operation will time out and raise
an IOError.
'''

import os

osname = os.name
if osname == "nt":
    from winLock import lockobject
elif osname == "posix":
    from posixLock import lockobject
else:
    raise ImportError, "locking not supported on your platform"

class LockObject(lockobject):
    pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print "Testing..."
    lockfile = raw_input("Enter a complete path/filename to test for
locking")
    one = LockObject()
    print "created a LockObject"


I'm just really dissatisfied with the poor file locking support in
Python, unless one is writing code exclusively for posix platforms.
About a week ago, I was composing a rant on that topic to post here. I
did a lot of research on the topic, and a lot of web searches
(google.com, groups.google.com, activestate.com, mail.python.org and so
forth...)

In the end, I decided not to post the rant (I deleted it), since I
didn't think I'd gain anything by it. I decided to just rather try to
solve the problem myself.

Really, though, I do think the problem should be solved by someone in
the Python developers circle and included in the standard library
(something along the lines of anydbm). But, that's just my opinion. I
have a number of reasons why I feel that way, but I won't go into it
right now.

Anyhow, Ignacio, thanks for the idea about the file descriptor. I think
you may have something there. I will try it out later tonight and see if
that helps.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From ferg_s at bls.gov  Fri Aug 24 08:58:52 2001
From: ferg_s at bls.gov (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 05:58:52 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <mailman.998073148.20297.python-list@python.org> <3B7E40C1.C9BDA3AB@cardboard.nu>
Message-ID: <a652a071.0108240458.53645886@posting.google.com>

You might want to add wxDesigner (http://www.roebling.de/) to your
list of IDEs.  It is a framework for developing GUIs with wxWindows. 
Its function is, I think, similar to Boa.


From revyakag at umdnj.edu  Fri Aug  3 11:40:27 2001
From: revyakag at umdnj.edu (Andrey Revyakin)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:40:27 -0400
Subject: MySQL module
References: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu> <9kdhfh$3lp$1@news2.kornet.net> <3B6A6A48.5010700@___skynamics.com.invalid>
Message-ID: <3B6AC5EB.671236C@umdnj.edu>

Is the second one still OK?

Andrey.

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Guillermo Kim wrote:
>
> > Maybe here ...
> > http://www.mysql.com/Downloads/Contrib/MySQLmodule-1.4.tar.gz
> >
> > another ..
> > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mysql-python/
>
> Forget about the first one, it's outdated and unmaintained.
>
> Gerhard
> --
> Gerhard H?ring
> skynamics AG
> g.haering at skynamics.com
> http://www.skynamics.com



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Aug 11 02:36:32 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:36:32 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cp66bv46jk.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108111028580.5959-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> "Joal Heagney" <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> wrote in message
>> news:3B73B115.9981318D at student.gu.edu.au...
>>     ...
>> > I LOVE this language. Alex, you're empty class trick just made it into
>> > my private python scrap-book.
>>
>> Glad you liked it!  That convinced me to post it as a recipe to the
>> cookbook, with slightly more complete discussion -- please see
>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66507
>> Comments, ratings and feedback are welcome, as usual!
>
>While I probably introduced this myself (pickle uses it), I have one
>reservation.  Assignment to self.__class__ is unique to Python -- it's
>not an idiom one can easily translate to other languages.  It's also a
>relatively new Python feature (I don't even know if Jython supports
>it).
>
>But maybe more importantly, I don't know how to support this esoteric
>feature after the type/class unification is complete.  Under the new
>system, not all instances are born the same: instances may have slots
>for instance variables rather than a __dict__ -- using slots makes for
>more space-efficient instances.  (Having a __dict__ is still the
>default, and an instance can have both slots and a __dict__.)

Couldn't slots just be mapped to __dict__ in case somebody accesses it?
Will __dict__ reflect available slots?

I know that Python docs never guarateed __dict__ to be the same forever,
but it is used in classes to do attribute assignments in __setattr__ and
similar circumstances...

Then slots are statically-named attributes (if I understood correctly).
Maybe it will be honest to give some kind of __attrlist__ attribute which
will be similar to __dict__ but devoted to those static slots?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Saturday, August 11, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "After a hard day, it's nice to come home to a warm cat." _/




From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Thu Aug  2 15:59:23 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:59:23 GMT
Subject: Python 2 times slower than Perl
References: <8f41cfd.0107171238.6ff33b9b@posting.google.com> <ku7kx7gtzk.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <20010802.160644.824272813.1331@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article <ku7kx7gtzk.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, "Erno Kuusela"
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

> Can anybody explain why Python is always about 1 time | slower than
> Perl?
> it is not - sometimes it is slower and sometimes faster.
>   -- erno

It doesn't really matter anyways. A developer's time is usually more
costly (except in certain situations). Python code is much easier to
maintain. 

Think about it this way: structured/procedural programming is much faster
than using objects. Why don't we all go back to the old way? There are
tradeoffs to developing reusable and easy to maintain software. Sometimes
you gotta sacrifice on the execution speed. 

-- 
"Son, is that spagetti on your screen, or is it just Perl code?" - Anon.

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Aug 20 08:39:58 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:39:58 +0200
Subject: sockets broken on New Install???
References: <shpnnto9suuk1smhikbloappjapn3rqjg6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B81051E.2F61D2B5@stroeder.com>

Sheila King wrote:
> 
> OK, so I *thought* I'd upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1.1. I have Linux host with
> shell account for my web site.

Me too.

> ImportError: /big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so:
> undefined
>  symbol: ERR_load_RSAREF_strings

I guess the socket module built with SSL support but the local
OpenSSL installation is built with RSARef lib (required patent
licensing). Since RSA patent expired someone might have removed the
RSARef lib without rebuilding the local OpenSSL installation. Well,
just a rough guess. If you do not need SSL support try to switch it
off.

Ciao, Michael.


From relfx at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  9 00:04:47 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:04:47 -0400
Subject: Popmail.py Need help.....................
Message-ID: <%Pnc7.5649$V43.473350@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>

I have tried using these modules but i'm getting some errors when i run the
script.

Here is the code i'm using for the pop mail :

import getpass , poplib
M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')
M.user(getpass.getuser())
M.pass_(getpass.getpass())
numMessages = len(M.list()[1])
for i in range (numMessages):
    for j in M.retr (i+1)[1]:
        print j

>>>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python21\Scripts\popmail.py", line 2, in ?
    M = poplib.POP3('pop.mail.mia.bellsouth.net')
  File "C:\PYTHON21\lib\poplib.py", line 79, in __init__
    self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
error: host not found






From nookie at online.no  Fri Aug 24 19:47:42 2001
From: nookie at online.no (Erlend J. Leiknes)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:47:42 +0200
Subject: Image manipulation
References: <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <JJBh7.834$1T5.10505@news1.oke.nextra.no>

Yup there is =)
Check out www.pythonware.com
They have something they call PIL (Python Imaging Library)
In their tutorial/manual there is a tumbnail example that you could use
(unless you want to learn something :)
Btw... is it a way to import only a choosen function from a module/library
instead of loading the whole shit?

Tom Robinson <tom at alkali.spamfree.org> wrote in message
news:grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3 at 4ax.com...
> Hi, I want to be able to read in a png/jpeg and then write it out
> resized with proper antialiasing etc.  I've looked on the vaults of
> parnassus and there seem to be quite a few things that do this, is
> there a "best" one?  Is there something in the standard lib that's up
> to this?
>
> --
> tom at alkali.spamfree.org
> remove 'spamfree.' to respond




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:00:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:00:49 +0200
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net>
Message-ID: <9kmf5n017da@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Chris Barker" <chrishbarker at home.net> wrote in message
news:3B6B00D0.DDC21E2 at home.net...
    ...
> Personally, I think that copyright law has shifted too far in the
> direction of protecting publishers and authors, and away from the public
> good original intent. It is, of course, a debatable point whether the
> law has shifter too far in that direction, but it has certainly shifted
> than way.

Undisputably.  And the latest Economist issue has an article that
analyzes the similar shift in *patent* law and practice (much more
recent: just 20 years ago, 'business practices' were not subject to
patents) from a point of view of whether it actually serves
somebody's interests (besides intellectual property lawyers',
of course:-) -- their (very tentative) conclusion is that it varies
by technological field (a disaster in electronics, computers, and
telecom, where all that current practice is doing is forcing each
company to 'milk' research they'd be doing anyway as a source
of a patent portfolio used mostly to stop other patent holders
from attacking -- it may eventually serve to erect huge barriers
to entry, to the advantage of extant oligopolists and a big loss
to the public, but this hasn't eventuated yet; not so bad in
fields such as pharmaceutics).

On the same subject -- I read about a young Australian lawyer
who, to make a point, requested and obtained a patent on a
"revolving motion device" -- i.e., the wheel.  Discussions of
patents should not assume an idealized Patent Office able to
tell the wheat from the chaff: in actual reality, you CAN patent
the wheel (and it's equivalents in other fields -- consider
Amazon's patent on "one-click purchasing" on the web), so
that reality has to be taken into account.


> By the way, FSF literature and the GPL are littered with words like
> "moral" and "ethical". I try to stay away from these issues, there are
> plenty pf practical consideration without having to try to argue
> morality with people.

Absolutely.  However, I do see BIG ethical questions with a law
that allows somebody, anybody, to *patent* genes I may have
in my body -- I don't really care about the economic implications
of that, there HAS to be somewhere one draws a line.


Alex





From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Wed Aug  1 10:37:04 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:37:04 -0400
Subject: os.path.commonprefix inadequacies
In-Reply-To: <E15RgvB-0001jn-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLIEOPCCAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Here's yet another way to do a common prefix, not sure about its performance
characteristics (assuming you have lists):

def commonprefix(*lists):
    assert len(lists) > 1
    l=zip(*lists)
    for n in xrange(len(l)):
        if filter(None,map(cmp,l[n][1:],l[n][0]*(len(l[n])-1))):
            return lists[0][:n]
    return lists[0]

# Some tests
print commonprefix(('a','b','c'),('a','b','x'),('a','b','c','y'))
# Returns ('a','b')
print commonprefix(('a','b'),('x'))
# Returns ()
print commonprefix(('x','y','z'),('x','y','z'))
# Returns ('x','y','z')

Hope this helps!
Rich





From patio87 at aol.com  Fri Aug 17 03:04:26 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 07:04:26 GMT
Subject: Definition statement
Message-ID: <20010817030426.14357.00003436@mb-mi.aol.com>

Im am learning python right know and I have come to a chapter called functions
and procedures. It goes into detail about the "def" function. I canoont seem to
understand what it does. can someone please tell me what it means. If it is any
hel the book is "The Quick Python BOOK" by Daryl harms and Kenneth McDonald.
For some reason on the cover there is a Women on it. Please help me


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 27 11:08:59 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:08:59 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271854220.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

Hello, 

I am trying to compile Python 2.1.1 on my Linux RedHat 6.2
system and am getting

# rpm -bb python-2.1.spec
error: failed build dependencies:
        expat-devel >= 1.1-3tummy is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
        db1-devel   is needed by python2-2.1.1-1

While I have even two versions of expat:

# rpm -qa | grep expat
expat-1.1-1
expat-1.1-3tummy

The question is, where can I find appropriate expat-devel
rpm? (expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm doesn't produce one, as 
expected, and rpmfind warns that expat tummy RPMs "doesnt export
valid resources list")

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 03:52:34 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 00:52:34 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <7xd75tz1u2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmuon11l56@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xk800ij0d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> It's un-messy, though rather rough-cut at this point.  Best
> coverage is AMK's at http://py-howto.sourceforge.net/rexec/rexec.html.

Thanks, rexec/bastion looks nice and seems to take care of the
problem.  I didn't see that there were enough pre-existing Python
primitives to do that.  I'll have to look at the rexec/bastion code
since it will probably be instructive.

An alternative may be to use one of the remote object schemes to put
the restricted object in a separate Unix process (maybe even on a
separate machine) from the caller.  Then the restricted object could
implement its own access policy and generically defeating the control
would require to breaking Unix security.  This is probably the most
secure possible scheme, but its limitations may not always be
tolerable.


From tim at zope.com  Tue Aug  7 15:56:13 2001
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:56:13 -0400
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
In-Reply-To: <3b702bb1.247314399@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHOEJLCEAA.tim@zope.com>

[Mats Wichmann]
> Can someone give me advice on how to have several versions of Python
> coexist nicely on a Windows box?  Or to be mnore precise, how can I
> install a new experimental version of Python without messing up my
> existing working setup?
>
> I haven't felt motivated to do this on a Windows box previously and
> it's really no problem on UNIX and cousins which is where I've done
> this kind of stuff before.

The most obvious way is for you to-- just like you do on Unix --stay away
from doing anything on Windows that *relies* on registry settings.  The core
PythonLabs Windows distribution makes no use of the registry for normal
operation, so if you're doing something that does need registry info, that's
not our fault <wink>.

> But things change, so I'm working more on Win2k at the moment... I
> installed 2.2a1 and the installer updated all the registry entries to
> say that was the current version,

Well, yes -- in what sense are you testing 2.2a1 if it doesn't do that?  The
alpha strives to act as much like the final release as possible.

> and I had to go fiddle by hand to set it back so that the default
> (file associations and other things) was 2.1.

Uninstalling 2.2a1 will restore the registry to its preinstall state by
magic.  Or installing 2.1 again will overwrite what 2.2a1 did.  Or etc:  the
registry is a global shared resource here, with all the obvious problems and
workarounds that come with such a thing.

The Python 2.2a2 Windows distribution should work better for you in several
respects:

+ It has an "Advanced Options" dialog, allowing not to register file
  extensions at all, and not to create any Start Menu shortcuts.

+ Also a "non-admin install" option, which under Win2K writes nothing
  under HKLM, only under HKCU.  Since Win2K allows (for the first
  time) registering file extensions under HKCU, you can have a full
  but independent 2.2a2 install via creating a new user acct for it
  and doing a non-admin install while under that (admin installs
  continue to require Admin privs, and write under HKLM).

+ Also a new option to create copies of everything replaced under
  a BACKUP directory.  This allows the uninstaller to restore Start
  Menu entries too (although if you're mixing 2.1 with 2.2a2, by
  default they're under different Start Menu names anyway (Python 2.1
  and Python 2.2 respectively)).

So there are several ways your life can be easier starting with the next
alpha.  Whether that's enough depends on what exactly you meant by "and
other things".





From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Wed Aug 15 14:40:11 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:40:11 +0200
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com> <3B79AF68.EE4937E7@home.net> <3B7ABAAC.4318D735@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B7AC20B.2E3E7BD5@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hello,

> > > There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> > >
> > >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
> > >         process(line)
[..]
> > fh = open("file", "r")
> > while 1:
> >     line = fh.readline()
> >     if not line: break
> >     # do stuff with line
[..]
> as is, I don't see the difference.  (Excepting that the for loop is much
> more concise, readable and intuitively understandable.)

Which is probably one of the best reasons. It's the same thing as using
inc(i) instead of i=i+1 : It might not make any differences in terms of
code speed, but expresses more directly what you want to do. In this
case, it's 'increase i by one', not 'adding one to i and assigning it to
i again'.

Dietmar


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Aug  1 03:10:10 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:10:10 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: 2.2 features
In-Reply-To: <slrn9mepa0.2m6.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010801091005.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 01-Aug-2001 William Tanksley wrote:
 >  It's a pity we don't have an "every" keyword, so we could use the syntax
 >  "every subclass is class".  Pretty, huh?  :-)

Perhams I'm stupid, but I do not understand what that is supposed to 
mean or do.

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    01-Aug-2001
Time:    09:08:21

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From r.vanwees at chello.nl  Wed Aug 22 17:57:43 2001
From: r.vanwees at chello.nl (Rob van Wees)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:57:43 GMT
Subject: How does Python (v2.1.1) handle parameter passing? By value or by reference?
Message-ID: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>

Hi all,

As a newbie to Python, I'm having trouble finding out how the interpreter
handles parameters that are passed to functions. Sometimes they seem to be
handled as values and sometimes as references.

The Python documentation does not seem to answer my question. Could any of
you help me?

Below is a copy of an IDLE session to find out what Python does with
parameters. It shows the different behaviors of the interpreter. I defined 3
functions that print and then change the parameters to see the effects on x
and y. The results seem weird to me. Anyone knows what is happening here?

TIA,

Rob.

--------------------------------------- IDLE session
below ---------------------------------------

Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 20 2001, 01:19:29) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> def f1(x,y):
                print x, " - ", y
                x = x + 2
                y = y - 2

>>> def f2(x, y):
            print x, " - ", y
            x.append(2)
            y.append(-2)


>>> def f3(x,y):
            print x, " - ", y
            x = [1,2,3,4]
            y = [4,3,2,1]

>>> x = 1
>>> y = 2
>>> f1(x,y)
1  -  2
>>> print x, " - ", y
1  -  2
>>> x = [1]
>>> y = [2]
>>> f2(x,y)
[1]  -  [2]
>>> print x, " - ", y
[1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
>>> f3(x,y)
[1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
>>> print x, " - ", y
[1, 2]  -  [2, -2]
>>>




From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 10:48:13 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:48:13 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <3B8F8AB0.877D3E20@olen.to>
Message-ID: <Xns910EAB3EAC164PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

Joonas Paalasmaa <joonas at olen.to> said :

>> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
> 
> If that number has fixed number of characters you can use slicing
> 
Unfortunately the numbers are file sizes so no such luck :)
Emile's tip works nicely though.
fp
-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From bokr at accessone.com  Sat Aug 18 20:06:18 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:06:18 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net>

On 18 Aug 2001 12:43:29 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:

>m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) writes:
>> > I think I'm reacting not as much to language differences as to
>> > differences in system maturity.  Whenever I write something in Perl or
>> > CL, and I need to do something like turn an array into a string,
>> 
>> Do you mean a Python list? ''.join(mylist)
>
>No I mean a list of character values, like (97,98,99) => "abc".
>
You mean like this?

 >>> ''.join(map(chr,(97,98,99)))
 'abc'

>> > somebody seems to have faced that problem before and it's been taken
>> > care of in some reasonably thought-out way.  In Python, I often feel
>> > like I'm doing something that hasn't been done much before.
>> 
>> In part I suspect that's due to your inexperience with the language, but
>> please keep pointing out the things that are missing. :)
>
>Here's one: say I have a long int, like x = 7**77777L.  How can I tell
>how many bits it takes to express that number in binary?  How can I
>convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
>form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can
>think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.
>
>Thanks.
Brute force, but easy to understand:
 >>> x = 7**77777L
 >>> cl = []
 >>> while x:
 ...     cl += chr(x&0xff)
 ...     x = x>>8
 ...
 >>> s = ''.join(cl)

Which gives you a little-endian result.

To get the string length required quickly, we can use
the builtin hex conversion which is very fast.
Note the '0x' in front and 'L' at the end (3 extra)
 >>> hex(x)[:5]
 '0xC7F'
 >>> hex(x)[-5:]
 'B487L'
 >>> len(hex(x))-3
 54587
 >>> (len(hex(x))-3+1)/2
 27294

That ought to hold the string, and is confirmed by
 >>> len(s)
 27294

That's not the exact number of bits, so define a function like so:
 >>> import math
 >>> def bitsin(x):
 ...     return math.frexp(eval(hex(x)[:3]))[1]+4*(len(hex(x))-4)
 ...
 >>> bitsin(7**77777L)
 218348

(It checks the bits in the first character and adds 4 each for the rest).

Since the first character is 'C' that's 4 bits, so all the hex chars
are 4 bits, for
 >>> len(hex(x))-3
 54587
 >>> (len(hex(x))-3)*4
 218348

which checks.
 >>> bitsin(7L)
 3
also checks (it assumes long type though, subtracting 1 for the 'L')


I grant you, the while loop takes a few seconds, and so does the 7**77777L.
How fast do you need? We could write faster algorithms for the exponentiations,
and also the conversion to string, both in Python. We could also obviously
write a fast extension to do it in C/C++ and return a string of 8-bit chars
as fast as the hex() function.
How fast do you need?




From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug  6 01:41:15 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:41:15 -0400
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
In-Reply-To: <3b636231.682598134@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEMALDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bengt Richter]
> UIAM, the way I read it, the only way you can get -0 from multiply
> is as a result of extreme underflow denormalizing to zero. Others
> give plain zero.  Of course, my intel pentium book is not the official
> ieee754 spec.

I can't guess what you're reading.  Here from the FMUL docs, in the IA-32
Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set
Reference, available at, e.g.,

http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/manuals/245471.htm

The last (byte-serving) link will get you to it quickly w/o enduring a 6.7MB
download of the whole thing:

    The sign of the result is always the exclusive-OR of the source
    signs, even if one or more of the values being multiplied is 0 or
    [a graphic for infinity].

Same as the 754 rules.




From barry at zope.com  Thu Aug  2 16:40:45 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:40:45 -0400
Subject: Is there a JPython Mirror?
References: <e04c3215.0108020925.3f0b53bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15209.47821.464205.355577@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JC" == Johnny Cash <meaneyedcat at hotmail.com> writes:

    JC> I am wondering if there is a Mirror site for JPython? It seems
    JC> to be down with python.org.

Don't use www.jpython.org any more.  You should be using
www.jython.org (which is hosted at SourceForge).

-Barry



From jacobkm at dont.spam.me.cats.ucsc.edu  Thu Aug 23 12:59:04 2001
From: jacobkm at dont.spam.me.cats.ucsc.edu (Jacob Kaplan-Moss)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:59:04 +0100
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9oa58q.971.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <jacobkm-13E542.17590423082001@news.ntlworld.com>

[snip]
> > So here are some questions. Suppose I derive a class from
> > a base type:
> > 
> >     class MyInt(type(0)):
> >         pass
> > 
> >     myInt = MyInt()
> >     myInt = 5                     # Will this work? 
> 
> Of course these bindings are independent. This works too:
>     myInt = 5
>     myInt = "spam"

I think I see what Russel is getting at here... the point is, myInt is 
an instance of class MyInt when it is first created, but what if I want 
to change the value of myInt without modifying the class?  That is:

>>> class MyInt(int):  
...   pass
>>> x = MyInt()
>>> isinstance(x, MyInt)
1

So here x is still a MyInt object.  Now I want to change the x so that x 
holds the value 5 but is still a myInt object.  So I try:

>>> x = 5

but now:

>>> isinstance(x, MyInt)
0

So, the question is, can I treat a MyInt the same way as I can treat an 
int?  Or do I have to do something like "x.set(5)" or "x = MyInt(5)"?

Jacob


From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug  6 02:57:43 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:57:43 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <3B6DDE36.2171424@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108061053070.15124-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Peter Hansen wrote:

>Roman Suzi wrote:
>>
>> On 5 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:
>>
>> >I'm not convinced that logic programming == AI. I'm more of a bottom-up
>> >genetic algorithm fan myself.
>>
>> Well, "I" could be different. I always thought having logic is necessary
>> to be intelligent. Evolution is not intelligent, but it solves problem.
>> Probably, it could be called Artificial Intuition.
>
>I'm with Doug on this.  Intelligence does not necessarily imply logic,
>at least not in most of the formal senses.  Intelligence does, however,
>imply the acquisition of knowledge (learning) and its application.
>(At least using the first definition from dictionary.com :-)

OK, OK... But this doen't give explanations why thinks are working
so, while logical approach does...

>And I've been waiting for a chance to use Python (Stackless, of
>course!) for some GA work.

BTW, spam filter which called our discussion "sensitive" probably needs
more AI (genetic or not) ;-) That is a real field for Pythonic AI
applications, genetic or not.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 06, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "A pessimist is never disappointed." _/




From matt at mondoinfo.com  Fri Aug 17 16:56:15 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:56:15 GMT
Subject: run-time pipeing
References: <9liu7d$hdf$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nr17e.ol.matt@happy-hour.mondoinfo.com>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:11:55 +0200, Sven Herzberg <herzi at runbox.com>
wrote:

>I want to control a linux console client for filesharing via python
>and GTK+ via pipes (popen4). I had no problems with pipeing from an
>program wich finishes and quits like 'ls', but I can't read anything
>from a program that needs additional input (like ftp). It seems that
>my program waits for the console program to finish.

>Is it possible to create a 'pipeing' frontend to a program like ftp?

Dear Sven,
Yes, it is. But as you've found it's sometimes a big nuisance to get
the buffering right. I bet that you'll find one of the Expect-like
modules available at The Vaults of Parnassus to be useful. (Expect is
a tool written under Tcl that is often used to automate interactive
programs like ftp.) Those modules generally deal with the buffering
and do a few other helpful things besides. I'd go over to:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

and do a search for "expect". I bet that one or another of those
modules will make things easier for you.

Regards,
Matt


From revyakag at umdnj.edu  Sun Aug 12 18:25:27 2001
From: revyakag at umdnj.edu (Andrey Revyakin)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:25:27 -0400
Subject: passing data from PHP to python
Message-ID: <3B770257.4C60823F@umdnj.edu>

I would like to exe a python module from php.
In the simpliest case, I have a "test.py" file like this:

#!/usr/local/bin/python
print "test"

and I call it from php like this

system("python test.py");

Works fine. Now, what if I need to pass an argument from php to the
"test.py" module? How do I do that?

Andrey Revyakin.




From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 09:33:10 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:33:10 +0100
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:01:45 +0200, Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>phil hunt wrote:
>> I haven't looked into S/MIME. Is there a web page with a good summary of
>> it?
>
>http://www.rsasecurity.com/standards/smime/
>http://www.imc.org/ietf-smime/index.html

>From reading links from this stuff, I get the impression that to get 
an S/MIME public/private keypair, you have to buy one from a 
Certification Authority (who also certify your identity, presumably).
Is this correct? Or can I just create my own keys like I can with GnuPG
or PGP?

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Tue Aug 21 10:57:30 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 14:57:30 GMT
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9ltssq$6sj$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>

According to phil hunt <philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk>:
> From reading links from this stuff, I get the impression that to get 
> an S/MIME public/private keypair, you have to buy one from a 
> Certification Authority (who also certify your identity, presumably).
> Is this correct? Or can I just create my own keys like I can with GnuPG
> or PGP?

HOWTO: Creating your own CA with OpenSSL:

    http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2/howto.ca.html


HOWTO: Programming S/MIME in Python with M2Crypto:

    http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2/howto.smime.html



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 17 10:32:39 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 09:32:39 -0500
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1rzo8yn4e0.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

Thanks for the test class; that was a good idea.  There is something
unusual about my date class in that it is a C++ date class that I use
a lot that I am exporting as a python extension using boost::python.
I don't have a lot of experience with python so I was not sure if the
problem was with the extension module or the python syntax.  Your code
indicates the former.

I did a lot more playing around last night and found some very odd
behavior.  For example, in the code below:

print 'today is %s' % d.get_mdy()  #mdy is month/day/year
print 'tomorrow is %s' % d.get_tomorrow().get_mdy()   #line1
print 'hour = %d' % d.get_hour()
print 'minute = %d' % d.get_minute()
print 'second = %d' % d.get_second()                  #line 2

The code would freeze if and only if both lines labeled line1 and
line2 were uncommented.  If I commented either or both, the code ran
fine.  When both were uncommented it had the same freezing behavior I
described in the OP (no Ctrl-C rescue).  I repeated this test several
times with identical results.

Now.  Each time the code froze, I copied the .py file to a suitably
named version like file1.hang.py, or if it ran I called it
file1.nohang.py.  That way I could compare exactly what was different
and could keep a record cause I was trying lots of things.  I came
back this morning and none of the code that was giving me troubles is
freezing!??  No reboot, no change in file contents.  So it looks like
the bug is random (except it sure was repeatable last night).

Has anyone experienced such weirdness with extension modules or
anything else before???

Thanks,
John Hunter


From shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu  Fri Aug 17 18:44:02 2001
From: shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu (Seung-won Hwang)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:44:02 -0700
Subject: [Q]python thread speedup?
Message-ID: <Pjff7.6823$A3.50220@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,

Recently, I modified serial source routine to multiple-threaded version. The
list is divided into the same size of sub-lists and each sub-list is
assigned to each thread. Then, each thread returns the top object from the
sub-list it has and the top results from threads are merged.

To my surprise, multi-threaded version gave me as much as x4 speedup.
Considering that each thread just looks up array and does some computation,
I don't see significant thread blocking and thus expected that the
context-switch cost would dominate the performance gain..
I'd appreciate any comments that possibly explain this speedup.

Thanks,
Seung-won





From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 23 21:17:12 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:17:12 +1200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <3b82bd6d.99311832@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B85AB18.FC9F652F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> I too was thinking that a symbol object might be a useful thing.
> Say it was created with the expression
>     sym = .

(Warning: untested code follows)

# Module Symbols

_symbols = {}

class Symbol:

  def __init__(self, name):
    self.name = name

  def __repr__(self):
    return "<symbol '%s'>" % self.name

class _SymbolMaker:

  def __getattr__(self, name):
    sym = _symbols.get(name, None)
    if not sym:
      sym = Symbol(name)
      _symbols[name] = sym
    return sym

symbol = _SymbolMaker()

# Example

from Symbols import symbol

my_uncle = symbol.bob
my_aunt = symbol.mary
if my_uncle is symbol.bob:
  print "Bob's my uncle"

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From rob at jam.rr.com  Thu Aug 23 10:00:51 2001
From: rob at jam.rr.com (Rob Andrews)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:00:51 GMT
Subject: Python Books
References: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B850C4E.CE483F1A@jam.rr.com>

Relfx wrote:
> 
> I was wandering if anyone here read the few books that are out there for
> python. Lately the only set of books i have seen that give alot of info are
> the O'Reilly editions such Learning and Programming with python.
> 
>     Are these books the best to have considering I'm still moving up the
> ladder of programming? Also are there going to more publications to support
> python programming?

Some of this depends on where you're coming from. If you have experience
or classroom time with just about any modern programming language, just
about any introductory Python book will do to introduce you to the basic
elements of the language. For this purpose, you can also use some of the
web tutorials available:

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/tutoriallinks.html

*Learning Python* (Lutz/Ascher) assumes at least a light familiarity
with another language. If you took a semester of Pascal ten years ago,
and made it as far as stacks and queues, you may still meet these
assumptions. I know someone who approached the book this way and liked
it.

*Learn to Program Using Python* (Gauld) is a good text assuming no
previous programming experience.

*Core Python Programming* (Chun) starts at the beginner level (but it
hits the ground running in a good way) and introduces a number of
intermediate topics. Lots of working sample code.

*Programming Python 2nd ed.* (Lutz) makes a great second Python book, no
matter which introduction you choose. I always keep this one and *Core*
handy and together for quick reference.

*Python How To Program* will be published by Prentice Hall soon, and the
current draft is of fine quality. When it hits the shelves, I'm thinking
about picking up half a dozen copies for Python newbies I know.

*Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours* (published by SAMS) is actually a
nice beginner text. I was skeptical because of the title, but it has
turned out to be a local favorite.

Whatever path you choose, Python students have access to this newsgroup,
the Python Tutor email list, and other newbie-friendly resources.

Rob
-- 
A {} is a terrible thing to waste.
Useless Python!
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python


From hove at phys.ntnu.no  Tue Aug  7 15:04:22 2001
From: hove at phys.ntnu.no (Joakim Hove)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 21:04:22 +0200
Subject: Checking for attribute in the current module with getattr( )
Message-ID: <k0nvgjzhetl.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>

Hello,

I have written a quite small and simple Python script, schematically
looking like this:

    #!/usr/local/bin/python
    
    def func1(arg1,arg2):
        ....
    
    
    def func2(arg1,arg2):
        ....
    
    
    ## Start of main program
    
    if hasattr(???,"func1"):   # <- Problematic line!
        print "This module defines a function \"func1\""
    else:
        print "No function \"func1\" defined"


Now, as indicated I don't really know what object to send in to the
hasattr function, indicated with "???" - is what I'm trying to do
possible, and how should I in case do it?

Best regards

Joakim Hove



-- 
==== Joakim Hove      www.phys.ntnu.no/~hove/   =======================
|| Institutt for fysikk  (735) 93637 / E3-166  |  Sk?yensgate 10D    ||
|| N - 7491 Trondheim    hove at phys.ntnu.no     |  N - 7030 Trondheim ||
================================================= 73 93 31 68 =========


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Aug 10 09:44:58 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:44:58 -0500
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de> <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <883789430D7C67FB.FA326A678A0C41A4.D1F2B5C5A5172BAC@lp.airnews.net>

In article <9l07a201rdj at enews4.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Benjamin Wu" <chase at gnuchina.org> wrote in message
>news:9l03s7$6q9f0$1 at ID-54723.news.dfncis.de...
>> When I use Tkinter, I met a question as following:
>> I create three buttons and thire callback function
>> is the same, how to know which button active callback
>> function when one of they pressed?
>>
>> Anyone can help me?
>
>Use different callables for the callbacks -- if it must be
>the same function, curry the function with different
>preset arguments -- see for example
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52549
>about how to do currying in Python.
			.
			.
			.
Good reference.  Note that, in practice, it's entirely
natural to define a tiny factory method which ensures
the correspondence between, for example, button and data.
In the recipe above, factor out the data 'A'.

Confession time:  in principle, GUI coders also can code
their own bindings and use %W substitution to compute
the widget which received the event.  Does that work in
Tkinter?  I've never used it, I can't find it documented,
and I'm already late for a meeting so can't experiment
myself just now.  Fredrik, do the %-s work right?

Even if they do, I'd still curry.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From new_name at mit.edu  Wed Aug 15 13:44:40 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 13:44:40 -0400
Subject: efficient in-place byte modifications
References: <29e28c51.0108150911.28f315ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <etdsnet9q0n.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Check out the cStringIO module.

HTH.
Alex.


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 17 18:35:57 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:35:57 -0700
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <3llhl9.u49.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <mailman.998072977.19755.python-list@python.org> <m8uqnt0m0qvmgrbs4od5v6o4hnrvi1mjgf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D9C4D.48C07D2C@ccvcorp.com>


Courageous wrote:

> ... but suppose that the new division semantics
> were to be implemented on the keyword "div" and that keyword had been
> reserved? I personally continue to believe (STRONGLY!) that new division
> semantics should be introduced in this way, in particular because of
> synergy with the current divmod() function.This would make it so that those
> who want even integer division semantics could get what they want while
> at the same time ensuring that all old code continues to work as it used to.
>
> [and imo, this "some new programmers are confused by floating point
> division" meme isn't something we should be attempting to solve].

>sigh<  The idea that div-semantics are changing for the sake of new programmers
(or any other special sub-group) is a red herring, as has been pointed out many
times.

New-div semantics are necessary for numeric integration.  Judging from what
Guido has said, this is the core reason for the change, whatever else the rest
of the newsgroup may be bleating about.  Numeric integration is a good thing.
Old-div semantics prevent numeric integration.  Ergo, div semantics must be
changed.  This also means that it is *not* practical for new semantics to use
any spelling other than / because that *will* be the normally used version.
New-div is *not* for people with special needs, it is for simplification of the
overall numeric architecture, and as such, it *must* be the default.  Yeah, it's
frightening that it will break a lot of code, and I used to be opposed to it for
that very reason.  But I can see that it's necessary for the direction that
Python is trying to go in, and as such, the sooner it's done the better.  And
really, let's be honest--when was the last time that VC++ upgraded a version
without breaking any old code?  How much perl4 code can you run under perl5?
Python is doing far more to make the transition smoother than almost any other
language.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From fred at arakane.com  Sun Aug 19 12:43:27 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:43:27 GMT
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"J.Jacob" <joost_jacob at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> When testing exceptions i found something, maybe a bug ?
> I wonder if the behavior is intentionally.
> Hereby a small program to show it:

...

All exception classes must be subclasses of the Exception standard class
(see standard documentation, or use some common sense ;)).

Thus, the code is wrong in the first place...


> class MyError:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.name = 'MyError instance attribute name'
>         MyError.name = 'MyError class attribute name'
>
>
> class MyError2:
>     def __init__(self):
>         MyError2.name = 'MyError2 class attribute name'
>
>
> def oops():
>     raise MyError
>
>
> def oops2():
>     raise MyError2
>
>
> import sys
>
> def oopsCaller():
>     try:
>         oops()
>     except MyError:
>         print 'name attribute value:', sys.exc_value.name
>     else:
>         print 'no catch in oopsCaller()'
>
> def oopsCaller2():
>     try:
>         oops2()
>     except MyError2:
>         print 'name attribute value:', sys.exc_value.name
>     else:
>         print 'niks gevangen in oopCaller2()'
>
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     oopsCaller()
>     oopsCaller2()




From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Aug 27 13:09:59 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:09:59 -0500
Subject: python extension module / external linkage
References: <mailman.998924860.22035.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1rk7zpqviw.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Ignacio" == Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes:

    Ignacio> Try building libB.so as well (passing '-shared' during
    Ignacio> the link phase). There are actually specific rules that
    Ignacio> you should follow, but I don't think they're entirely
    Ignacio> necessary. The book "Linux Applciation Development" by
    Ignacio> Michael K.  Johnson and Erik W. Troan (ISBN 0201308215)
    Ignacio> describes the process. In fact, it's a book I recommend
    Ignacio> to anyone doing any kind of development for Linux in any
    Ignacio> language.

Yep, the .so trick worked.  I haven't yet tried 'export-dynamic'.
I'll look for the book you recommend, I haven't yet found a good
resource for these kinds of things.

Cheers,
John Hunter




From sill at optonline.net  Sun Aug  5 10:42:51 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:42:51 GMT
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On 05 Aug 2001 01:05:15 +0300, Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> In article <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
> sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:
> 
>| Is there some way to get aterm (and other terms) window dimension(s)
>| without curses?
> 
> use google :)

I'm probably not using a good search string, but search for
python get term size without curses
returned nothing on first 2 pages of hits in google groups..

Anyway, this solution doesn't work in 2.1 - termios module doesn't
have this attribute, (TERMIOS is deprecated and doesn't have it either).

What's tigetstr?
[snip]
>> # Eep!  this next should be made rather more portable (ie. fallback to
>> # env vars, then tigetstr("lines"), etc).
>> def getheightwidth():
>>     height, width = struct.unpack(
>>         "hhhh", ioctl(0, TERMIOS.TIOCGWINSZ ,"\000"*8))[0:2]
>>     return height, width
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> M.
> 
> 
> 
>   -- erno


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 16:27:52 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:27:52 -0500
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
In-Reply-To: <3B719793.134854C9@olen.to>
References: <3B719793.134854C9@olen.to>
Message-ID: <15217.41160.400308.267115@beluga.mojam.com>

    Joonas> Why doesn't python22a1 give members of a list with dir(list).
    Joonas> See snippet below.

Chalk that up to type/class unification:

    % ./python
    Python 2.2a1 (#11, Aug  2 2001, 08:51:55) 
    [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Linux-Mandrake 8.0 2.96-0.48mdk)] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> dir([].__class__)
    ['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', ..., 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort']

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From fgeiger at datec.at  Wed Aug 15 02:56:57 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:56:57 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9ld6a3$o0u$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

Hi Paul,

from an interactive session I got:

ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> z=complex(1,2)
>>> z
(1+2j)
>>> z.real
1.0
>>> z.imag
2.0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> from types import *
>>> print type(1) == IntType
1
>>> print type(1L) == IntType
0
>>> print type(1L) == LongType
1
>>>

Cheers
Franz


"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xd75xlv86.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> I just started playing with python and haven't been able to figure
> out the following things from the docs I've found:
>
> 1) Suppose I have a complex number like a = 3+4j.  How do I get the
> real and imaginary parts separately?  I guess I could say
>    x = (a + a.conjugate())/2
>    y = (a - a.conjugate())/2
> but I can't take this language seriously if that's what the designers
intended.
>
> 2) Is there a way I can tell if a value is of an integer type?  That is,
>    I want to write a function is_int(x) so that
>      is_int(3) = 1    # 3 is an integer type
>      is_int(3L) = 1   # 3L is an integer type
>      is_int(3.0) = 0  # 3.0 is float type
>      is_int(3+2j) = 0 # 3+2j is complex type
>
> 3) Are the complex math functions specified to have any particular
>    branch cuts?  If they're unspecified, what happens in the actual cmath
>    implementation?  If they're unspecified, I'd like to propose that the
>    Scheme/Common Lisp conventions be adopted in a future version.
>




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Aug 30 16:06:29 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:06:29 -0700
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
References: <mailman.999093823.9432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tot739etae0ue8@news.supernews.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999093823.9432.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, John Roth wrote:
>
> > Doesn't your listen have to be in a loop? Each time it returns, the
return
> > from listen is a new connection socket descriptor (file descriptor).
Then
> > you
> > spin off whatever you need to do to handle the connection - a new
> > process, thread or whatever.
>
> No! You need to call listen only once. You call accept over and over, but
> not listen.

You're absolutely right - my brain stumbled on that one. The only excuse is
that
I was coming down with a one day flu (ugh!)

John
>
> -Dave
>
>




From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Wed Aug 15 21:36:30 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:36:30 +1000
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B239E.C08F8DCD@student.gu.edu.au>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Here's another dumb question, about the for loop: if I want to add
> up the first 100 numbers in the naive way, am I really supposed to say
> 
>    sum = 0
>    for i in range(101) :
>      sum = sum + i
> 

Out of curiosity, is there a reason (e.g. curiosity on your part?)
you're not using:

N = 100
sum = N*(N+1)/2

which returns the sum of the first 100 integers much more quickly?
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk  Sun Aug  5 14:56:07 2001
From: tony.mcdonald at ncl.ac.uk (Tony McDonald)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:56:07 +0100
Subject: why is python slow on Solaris?
In-Reply-To: <15213.30825.480171.762967@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <B7933BE1.C7ED%tony.mcdonald@ncl.ac.uk>

On 5/8/01 5:46 pm, "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> 
>   Tony> This is on an Enterprise 3500 - UltraSparc at 400MHz (ie a big box)
>   ...
>   Tony> Can anyone tell me why this is so, and more importantly, what I
>   Tony> can do to compile up python to run faster on Solaris?
> 
> Well, you didn't really give any indication what optimization you used with
> gcc.  I'd start there.  There are a number of SPARC-specific flags for gcc
> as well as a number of different optimization levels you can try.

Thanks for the reply Skip, yes Sorry I did miss that part out;

gcc -fPIC -g -O2 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes

I've built a copy of GCC 3.0 with a 64-bit architecture, but there are
problems with that as the following shows;

% file python
python:         ELF 64-bit MSB executable SPARCV9 Version 1, dynamically
linked, not stripped

Python 2.1 (#6, Aug  5 2001, 16:34:01)
[GCC 3.0] on sunos5
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pystone
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "pystone.py", line 37, in ?
    from time import clock
ImportError: ld.so.1: ../../python: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open failed: No
such file or directory

Any thoughts would be appreciated...
Tone




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 24 11:35:04 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:35:04 +0100
Subject: Finalization problems
Message-ID: <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

A colleague reports finalization problems with a particular extension
running under 2.1.1 and Solaris. The problems don't occur with NT. he
reports sigabort right after the cleanup __builtins__ and before the
cleanup ints. Both Python-2.1.1 and the extension are built using gnu
tools.

The distinguishing feature is that the extension is used more than once
in the cases when the abort occurs.

Not having access to the corporate Solaris machine I can only ask what
sort of things might cause this eg do I have to search for all known
python variables looking to see if they are correctly ref counted etc?

Are there any things I can try with the NT version?
-- 
Robin Becker


From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Thu Aug 23 03:44:45 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:44:45 +0200
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> <3b8438f6.196472081@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B84B46D.9B6831EF@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi!

> One idea would be to write all the strings end to end into a file, and
> store their start byte positions and lengths as tuple values for keys in a dictionary,
> somethin like
> [code snip]

Hey, that sounds rather good to me. I'll think about the database, too.
But somehow I like this 'homemade' approach a little better. ;-)

Greetings, Dietmar


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Sun Aug 26 18:44:42 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:44:42 GMT
Subject: ZODB and COM Server - how to create collection attribute?
References: <3b88fb46$0$31252$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <3B897C81.7080507@ActiveState.com>

Gerhard Kalab wrote:

> I'd like to write a COM-Server and use ZODB for persistence.
> 
> The following code doesn't work, because the class Person has a
> COM-collection (books) which cannot be pickled.
> It would be easy to change the books attribute to get and set COM-methods to
> get and set the books list. But is it possible to use a COM-attribute?
> Is there any way I can change the books list to a list of normal python
> objects before it is going to be saved? And can I change it back to a
> COM-collection after the list is loaded by ZODB?
> Any other ideas?


Your best bet is probably to implement an __getstate__ and __setstate__ 
methods on your class.  This code could unwrap the COM collection, and 
re-wrap as necessary.  Check out the documentation on pickle and/or the 
copy module for more details...

Mark.



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug 31 10:01:44 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:01:44 GMT
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
References: <mailman.999238487.31711.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9ov668.lt0.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:12:57 -0400, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> pisze:

> If you want something that works under all Python releases (to date
> ...), print
> 
>     repr(l)[:-1]  # chops off trailing 'L'

It will break when ints are longs are unified, so don't stay with
this too long and switch to str(l) when Python versions which appended
'L' to str can be considered obsolete.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 26 11:24:45 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:24:45 -0400
Subject: Text Formating in Python
References: <1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e@posting.google.com> <9ma06p$127cn$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3B8914BD.546CCC2B@engcorp.com>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> 
> from random import randrange as rand
> def formatWithColor(i):
>     color = '#000000'
>     if i < 0: color = '#ff0000'
>     if i > 0: color = '#008000'
>     return '<font color=%s>%8.2f' % (color, i)
or
      return '<font color="%s">%8.2f</font>' % (color, i)

> print "<BR>".join([formatWithColor(rand(-99,99)) for i in range(10)])
or
  print "<br/>".join( .....

(Closer to being compatible with XHTML. :)


From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Fri Aug 17 16:41:53 2001
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:41:53 -0400
Subject: ANN: PythonCard prototype release 0.4.1
References: <_mUe7.524$LI5.191023@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3B7D8191.37669573@astro.cornell.edu>

Kevin Altis wrote:

> PythonCard relies on wxPython, it will support the Macintosh once wxPython
> has been ported to the Mac.

What's the latest on when this might happen?  It was said to be "soon" a year
and a half or two years ago; in the meantime I gave up checking on it.  Has
there been significant progress lately?  I wish I could help make it happen,
but part of why I'd like to see it happen is that I don't know all the gory
Mac details it would take to *make* it happen!  8-)

-Tom Loredo


From aahz at panix.com  Thu Aug 16 20:39:58 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 17:39:58 -0700
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
References: <15224.48600.621401.101492@beluga.mojam.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141031100.865-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru> <mailman.997792702.17326.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lhp4u$p28$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997792702.17326.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    Roman> What about threads? What if math.sin changes while in cache?
>
>I added the following to a new Questions section:
>
>Q.  What about threads?  What if math.sin changes while in cache?
>
>A.  I believe the global interpreter lock will protect values from being
>    corrupted.  In any case, the situation would be no worse than it is
>    today.  If one thread modified math.sin after another thread had
>    already executed "LOAD_GLOBAL math", but before it executed
>    "LOAD_ATTR sin", the client thread would see the old value of
>    math.sin. 

Yup, more or less.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug 29 12:19:53 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:19:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should apply
 to *nix, too)
In-Reply-To: <Xns910CA7E56BFB9michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290912360.22754-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Michael Abbott wrote:

> > def handle_request(self):
> >     try:
> >         request, client_address = self.get_request()
> >     except socket.error:
> >         return
> >     if self.verify_request(request, client_address):
> >         try:
> >             # this will start a new thread
> >             self.process_request(request, client_address)
> >         except:
> >             self.handle_error(request, client_address)
> >     # this will close the socket still in use by the new thread
> >     self.close_request(request)

What version of Python is this? 1.5.2 and 2.0 don't have the close_request
call at all. Python 2.1.1 has:

  ...
  try:
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  except:
    self.handle_error(request, client_address)
    self.close_request(request)

Note the indentation - the close_request call happens only after an
exception gets raised, and so the threading mix-in works fine. Has yours
been modified or do I just have a different version than you?

> > Solution:

Instead of that long solution why don't you just change the indentation of
close_request? Or, subclass TCPServer and implement your own
handle_request that doesn't call close_request at the end. Then you can
use the threading mixin. Either way, it's a lot less work.

-Dave




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 14:08:22 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:08:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oq8t1.96i.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291405300.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Grant Edwards wrote:

> The only problem I see is that the case where self.r==other.r and self.i >
> other.i isn't handled.  That wouldn't cause the problem you've observed, but
> I'd do something like:
>
>   def __comp__(self, other):
>     if self.r < other.r:
>        return -1
>     elif self.r > other.r:
>        return 1
>     else:
>        if self.i < other.i:
>           return -1
>        elif self.i > other.i:
>           return 1
>        else:
>           return 0

Mmm, no. You see, what if you have values like (5+1j) and (2+58j)? are you
sure you want to believe that (5+1j) is larger? It will seem that way if you
use the comparison function above.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 24 16:11:47 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:11:47 -0500
Subject: Tim & Guido in the top 10
Message-ID: <15238.46339.82050.850655@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

Just happened to be on the sourceforge.net home page and noticed that Tim &
Guido are the fifth and ninth ranked users, respectively.  I don't know
quite what that means or how they distill everything down to one number (ah,
I see, other users rate them), but I assume it's a good thing.  The rest of
the PythonLabs team are in the hunt as well: Barry at #17, Fred at #21, and
Jeremy at #22.  Overall, Python is the fourth most active project on
sourceforge.net.

So I figure I'll go rate the gang.  Under Follow-Through/Reliability, the
choices are: None, Politician, Firefighter, Robot.  Is there any question?
;-)

way-to-go-gang-ly y'rs,

Skip



From sburr at home.com  Wed Aug  8 22:28:32 2001
From: sburr at home.com (sburrious)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 19:28:32 -0700
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <5396362c.0108081710.551821f6@posting.google.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> > "Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote in message
> > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000 at cc489744-a...
> > >
> > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Ben.Altman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to
>  (or
> > > > > at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a
>  Python
> > > > > environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
> > > > > second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
> > > > > code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody
>  know
> > > > > of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables
>  Python
> > > > > stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
> > > >
> > > > What about nedit.
> > >
> > > Aha, another one, so far we have:
> > >
> > > Emacs,
> > > Vim,
> > > Alpha,
> > > Jed,
> > > Nedit,
> > >
> > > that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?
> > >
> > Scintilla.
> 
> TextPad

BBEdit (for Mac OS 9 and X)



From not.this at seebelow.org  Mon Aug 27 17:51:41 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 14:51:41 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <mailman.998632296.6398.python-list@python.org> <3B8A930D.BC2B4C92@home.net>
Message-ID: <9mefdd0143@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3B8A930D.BC2B4C92 at home.net>, Chris says...
>
...
>Better yet: I'd love to see Python add homogenous sequences as a
>concept. First the concept, which could be used by extension modules to
>make type checking a whole lot easier, and perhaps ultimately in the
>interpreter to make list comprehensions and the like much faster. First
>the infrastructure, then, hopefully, the actual optimisations.
>
>There may be major flaws with my homogenous sequence idea, but I have
>been unable to coax thoughtful analysis out of any of the truly
>knowledgeable folks in this group so far. Maybe it's such a stupid idea
>that no one bothers...

Naw, it's not a stupid idea.  Python already supports that for various numeric
types in a way that's somewhat, though not completely general, via NumPy and the
"array" module.  The problem is, I'm not sure how you make it _completely_
general by providing something like NumPy's "universal functions" which operate
on the sequence as a whole (and whose speed is drawn from the assumption of
homogeny.)

In a sense, Python's list and tuple types already are homegenous, because they
hold only one type: PyObject.  Of course, a PyObject can seem like many
different objects, but it's still a PyObject.  So if you're suggesting, for
example, a list that could only hold strings, I'm not sure there would be much
benefit as long as the string is still a PyObject: then, we still have a list of
PyObjects.  However, if that list held some _different_ kind of string, for
example, C-style strings (which aren't PyObjects), it might be useful--but only
if it comes with useful operations that you can do to the whole list, e.g.
strip, uncapitalize, etc.

Problem is, that adds two new data types: C-strings and C-string-lists.  But one
important design feature of Python is its very small set of basic types.  Like
its other minimization of features, this makes it easier to learn and use, and
more portable.  (In contrast, C/C++ provides a zillion combinations.)

Also, given its small set of types, Python can cheat by providing a syntax to
implicitly declare the types of variables:

   x = 1
   x = 1.0
   x = 1.0+1.0j
   x = {}
   x = []

but this becomes awkward to extend beyond its current few types.  So the only
thing to do would be to more formally declare the new types.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that homogenous sequences aren't a bad idea,
they just don't fit into Python in a completely general way.  To me, it seems
like homogenous sequences of numeric and character types are about the only
things that fit, and that's already been done.

the-squareness-of-the-peg-and-the-roundness-of-the
  hole-does-not-reflect-badly-on-either-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  1 15:23:09 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:23:09 -0400
Subject: sockets and classes
References: <Xns90F0321874812rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <20010801143653.04329.00000760@mb-mh.aol.com>
Message-ID: <vDY97.18912$WD1.1061812@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"TheDustbustr" <thedustbustr at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010801143653.04329.00000760 at mb-mh.aol.com...
> I did not include the code to read from the socket in my post to make the
code
> more readable, but it was there.  And it was recieving data, i accidently
had
> deleted the 'print data' statement :P
>
> New problem:  I get the following error:
>      if arg[0] == 'privmsg':
> TypeError: unsubscriptable object
> Whats that supposed to mean?
>
It probably means that neither of the conditions in your parse() method is
true, and so parse() is returning None by default, which you don't appear to
be testing for. if ... elif ... doesn't execute ANY code at all if both the
first and second conditions are false.

Sorry, I don't have time to read the code further just now.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/





From varistor at cngoldline.com  Thu Aug 23 09:27:27 2001
From: varistor at cngoldline.com (Lin Cang)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:27:27 +0800
Subject: Metal Oxide Varistor
Message-ID: <E15ZuSG-00051L-00@mail.python.org>

Dear Sir / Madam,
        
I am pleased to introduce our company(Guangdong Kestar Electronic Co.Ltd.) and 
 our main products.
     Guangdong Kestar Electronic Co.Ltd. is a professional manufcturer on  Varistors 
,located in Guangdong province mainland China.
     With 10 years experience in producing Metal Oxide Varistors ,It is equipped 
with a complete set of advanced machinery,possessed high abilities of development 
& exploitation..
     Our main seven series varistors are WYG current varistor, MYL lihtningproof 
varistor,MYE high load varistor,MYA minitype  varistor,MYP squareness varistor,MYR 
highly reliable&varistor,low-pressure power supply lightning arrester..  The 
Varistors conform to ISO9002  .The products have passed  several international 
authentication.such as UL.
      if you are interested in our products, please contact us without hesitate.

yours truely  Lin Cang.

Guangdong Kestar Electronic Co.Ltd

Tel: ?86-757-2271139 2718755
Fax:    86-757-2261563
E-mail:varistor at cngoldline.com
Website:http://www.kestar.com.cn


Contact person: Mr Lin





From superfix at bol.com.br  Wed Aug  8 14:04:10 2001
From: superfix at bol.com.br (phill)
Date: Wed,  8 Aug 2001 15:04:10 -0300
Subject: Help me -  thread again
Message-ID: <GHRGUY$IWijJfzGva_pgHwLtWQu4vimXjYR9nqefPe@bol.com.br>

I have been some problems with threads in 
python/c. Let me try explanation this:
- I have an interface write in python for c
- In this interface I call a module write in c
- In this module I call glutmainloop, otherwise, 
the program enters in loop to refresh the opengl 
aplication.

So, I need to return to python interpreter. 
otherwise, I need to keep two aplications in my 
program: python window and
opengl window. Note: I need to keep the terminal active 
together opengl.

/*Api*/
include <module.c>
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
static PyObject *agg_CreatAgent(PyObject *self, 
PyObject *args)
{
int x;
if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &x)
return NULL;

Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
open_function(x, "filename");
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS

Py_INCREF(Py_None);
return Py_None;
}
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .

Effect. Python simply call the open_function and fall in 
loop. How I can return the control to the python and 
keep this thread active?
Any thoughts?

Phill.


 
__________________________________________________________________________
Acesso pelo menor pre?o do mercado! R$ 14,90 nos 3 primeiros meses! 
ASSINE AGORA! http://www.bol.com.br/acessobol/





From rac_biz at Yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 06:00:32 2001
From: rac_biz at Yahoo.com (Roger Chapman)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:00:32 -0700
Subject: This is a pleasant surprise!!!        50K49A2
Message-ID: <69482001861810032240@c565296-a>

       "This is a pleasant surprise "!!!

Simply for accepting our FREE invitation to see this opportunity work for YOU, we'll "lock in" your position and EVERYONE who signs up AFTER you, signs up UNDER you!!

You can take your time, and review all the benefits of your free membership, because frankly, there are too many remarkable benefits to be able to understand them all at a glance. 

For an example my sponsor's sponsor is earning $8,000.00 a month guaranteed income, and in a year, she has earned a life-time income!!

I'm now earning a guaranteed income, and very soon, you can also!!

Why are we doing this?  Because when you see the explosive growth, and momentum, and you see how this program was designed to help any sincere marketeer succeed, you'll accept the down line we've placed under you, and you'll decide to harvest your piece of this incredible event.

So what are you waiting for?  This is a FREE, No Cost, No Obligation opportunity to watch your monthly commissions grow.

The person who just signed up will be pleased to add you to their down line.

See for yourself:   JOIN FREE!!!!!!!  JOIN FREE!!!!!!!

To join our FREE post launch program, send us an email
mailto:Rac_Biz at Yahoo.com?subject=I_Would_Like_To_Join_Post_Paunch_for_Free50K49A2!!!
and include your "first name, last name, and email" in the text... 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the program that built itself, while I was too busy beating myself up with the others. It was FREE to
join, and they said they would PROVE that it worked.

        Guess what.....it Works!

Let me show you, and prove it to you too.  No hype, no shouting, no risk, just an opportunity to make
a guaranteed income every month...

Send me an Email - I'll take it from there|;-}

   JOIN FREE!!!!!!!  JOIN FREE!!!!!!!

To join our FREE post launch program, send us an email
mailto:Rac_Biz at Yahoo.com?subject=I_Would_Like_To_Join_Post_Paunch_for_Free50K49A2!!!
and include your "first name, last name, and email" in the text... 


We will send you an email to confirm your free membership, and provide additional benefits of the program.

You have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain!

Regards,
Roger


____________________________________________________________________

If  you choose not to receive info from us, send us an email, and your wishes will be honored.
mailto:Rac_Biz at Yahoo.com?subject=Please_Remove50K49A2
and include your "email address(es)" in the text... 
_____________________________________________________________________































_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 17:30:02 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:30:02 +0200
Subject: Which is the best way...
References: <mailman.997909164.1727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lh0t201eaa@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997909164.1727.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> # Will fail if list *is* in order
> def first_non_ordered_dumb (my_list) :
>        for index in range(len(my_list)) :
use instead:
          for index in range(len(my_list)-1):
>                if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
>                        return index - 1


> # Works, but how much overhead is there in the slicing of the range list?

more than needed...

> def first_non_ordered_2 (my_list) :
>        for index in range(len(my_list))[:-1] :
use instead:
          for index in range(len(my_list)-1):
for the same effect obtained more effectively:-).

Note that this becomes equal to the first solution
when both are corrected (one for correctness, one
for speed) apart from a few minor things:

>                if my_list[index] > my_list[index + 1] :
>                        return index + 1

first version returned index - 1 (range -1 up) while
this one returns index + 1 (range +1 up), probably
what's wanted.

>        else :
>                return None

redundant, better to eliminate these two lines.


Alex





From reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com  Sat Aug  4 22:13:04 2001
From: reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 02:13:04 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <3B6B05EC.F6381658@tundraware.com> <3b6b30cc.1194240797@wa.news.verio.net> <Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <_1Xa7.761$pX4.96081@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns90F42767ED10Arcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Chris Tavares wrote:

> "Robert Amesz" <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns90F32BBF3218rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
>
> [Is Bison output GPL?]
>
>> But he's right about Bison, I remember that distinctly: output
>> from Bison should be considered GPLed because it contains GPLed
>> sourcecode from Bison.
>
> Really? I don't have the docs handy right now, but I distinctly
> remember there being a specific exception in the Bison license to
> deal with this exact problem - you're allowed to use the Bison
> generated code & parser engine in whatever you want, no GPL
> restrictions apply. Unless the license has changed in the last five
> years, anyway. 


Ah, let's see. I collected some HTML-pages some time ago with Bison 
documentation. It says:

>From "Introduction":

   Bison was written primarily by Robert Corbett; Richard Stallman
   made it Yacc-compatible. This edition corresponds to version 1.20
   of Bison. 

-- End quote --


"Conditions for Using Bison" (in full):

   Bison grammars can be used only in programs that are free
   software. This is in contrast to what happens with the GNU C
   compiler and the other GNU programming tools. 
   
   The reason Bison is special is that the output of the Bison
   utility--the Bison parser file--contains a verbatim copy of a
   sizable piece of Bison, which is the code for the yyparse
   function. (The actions from your grammar are inserted into this
   function at one point, but the rest of the function is not
   changed.) 
   
   As a result, the Bison parser file is covered by the same copying
   conditions that cover Bison itself and the rest of the GNU system:
   any program containing it has to be distributed under the standard
   GNU copying conditions. 
   
   Occasionally people who would like to use Bison to develop
   proprietary programs complain about this. 
   
   We don't particularly sympathize with their complaints. The
   purpose of the GNU project is to promote the right to share
   software and the practice of sharing software; it is a means of
   changing society. The people who complain are planning to be
   uncooperative toward the rest of the world; why should they
   deserve our help in doing so? 
   
   However, it's possible that a change in these conditions might
   encourage computer companies to use and distribute the GNU system.
   If so, then we might decide to change the terms on yyparse as a
   matter of the strategy of promoting the right to share. Such a
   change would be irrevocable. Since we stand by the copying
   permissions we have announced, we cannot withdraw them once given.
   
   We mustn't make an irrevocable change hastily. We have to wait
   until there is a complete GNU system and there has been time to
   learn how this issue affects its reception. 

-- End quote --


So the terms of use may very well have changed after this was written, 
and it may not appply to some or all versions of Bison above 1.20, but 
this is what I have on the subject.

Makes you wonder, though... have I, by including the above quote, made 
this posting GPL or does a quote like just constitutes 'fair usage', 
thus bypassing any licencing or copyright issues?

Better to play it safe and release this posting under the new Python 
2.1.1 fully GPL compatible licence:

THIS POSTING IS RELEASED UNDER THE NEW PYTHON 2.1.1 FULLY GPL 
COMPATIBLE LICENCE

Gee, that was fun.


Robert Amesz





From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 08:05:37 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:05:37 +0200
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <9kj96l$vub$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <9e231a88.0108062140.1434c3fc@posting.google.com> <9kr7qf$esu$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9kr9uh02al5@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tom Bryan" <tbryan at python.net> wrote in message
news:9kr7qf$esu$1 at slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
    ...
> Does the cgi module transparently handle GET and POST queries so
> that the same script can be called with either?

Yes.


Alex





From cguru at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug  1 12:22:51 2001
From: cguru at bigfoot.com (Cguru)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:22:51 GMT
Subject: Trouble with SQL and Entry box
Message-ID: <20010801.123000.2118901476.1757@office.lan>

Hello All...

I've been using Python for about 3 months and am now trying to make
decent gui apps. I am having one problem that I can't figure out, and the
obligatory deja.com search failed to find an anser. (I even bought the
book Python Developer's handbook, to no avail)

This is what I'm doing:
My app uses queries from a PostGRE database.
I have a "form" with entry boxes. I want the entry boxes (and 1 text box)
to have the contents of a query that they can change. But I see no "text"
parameter. I noticed a get() method but can't figure out how to use it.

This is what I have...
       rs = pg.DB('blah')

        

       
	
	query17 = "select companyname from clients"
	var1 = rs.query(query17)
        self.ent17 = Entry (master)
	#self.ent17.configure(textvariable = query17)
	self.ent17.insert(END,var1)
        self.ent17.place(in_=master,x=120,y=30)

It doesnt' do what I expect it to do.
Am i wrong for thing the output of the query shoudl go in the entry box?
Thanks..I really appreciate it.


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug 30 06:01:06 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 10:01:06 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <9mkqj9017al@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9os3n2.gsc.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:39:21 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:

> And of course there's no problem interpreting whether:
> 
>     blobber plikke
> 
> means:
> 
>     blobber(plikke)
> 
> or:
> 
>     blobber(plikke())

BTW, from Perl sources:

/*
 * S_intuit_method
 *
 * Does all the checking to disambiguate
 *   foo bar
 * between foo(bar) and bar->foo.  Returns 0 if not a method, otherwise
 * FUNCMETH (bar->foo(args)) or METHOD (bar->foo args).
 *
 * First argument is the stuff after the first token, e.g. "bar".
 *
 * Not a method if bar is a filehandle.
 * Not a method if foo is a subroutine prototyped to take a filehandle.
 * Not a method if it's really "Foo $bar"
 * Method if it's "foo $bar"
 * Not a method if it's really "print foo $bar"
 * Method if it's really "foo package::" (interpreted as package->foo)
 * Not a method if bar is known to be a subroutne ("sub bar; foo bar")
 * Not a method if bar is a filehandle or package, but is quoted with
 *   =>
 */

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 16:31:41 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:31:41 -0400
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
In-Reply-To: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B6824@eden.vmlabs.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEAFLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[John Schmitt]
> I am an admin on this machine.

If you're an Admin but don't know why your box can't run a 16-bit program,
you probably shouldn't be an Admin <wink>.  This shouldn't be happening in
"a normal" Win2K setup.

> ...
> Is there a way of switching back and forth between 2.1 and 2.2?

Sorry, I don't know what you're asking.  If you install them into different
directories, what else do you think *might* be needed?  Because they're
different major.minor releases, they don't even use the same DLL name (2.1
uses python21.dll, and 2.2 python22.dll -- no conflict there).

> Does that involve running the unisntaller and then running the installer
> for the other one?

I don't know why it would, but I suppose it could depend on exact details of
how you're using Python.

> Maybe I can just re-run the ActiveState installer when I want to revert to
> 2.1 and then re-run the 2.2* installer when I want to try 2.2 again, eh?

I doubt you need to endure that much pain ... but I don't know all the
details.  I routinely run 5 different versions of Python simultaneously on a
single Windows box, but I'm not using any of the Win32 extensions from
ActiveState, and I make no use of the file-extension registrations.  So if
it comes down to a conflict in that stuff, I'm afraid I can't help you (but
ActiveState should be able to).




From lele at seldati.it  Tue Aug 28 11:48:29 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 17:48:29 +0200
Subject: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?
References: <mailman.998994522.22781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:27:09 -0700, Brandon Long <blong at fiction.net> said:

    BL> I've tried PyApache 4.25, mod_python 2.7.6 and mod_snake 0.5.0
    BL> (and the latest mod_snake from CVS yesterday), and none of
    BL> them seem to work.

    BL> PyApache will work in SingleIntepreter mode, but without that
    BL> on, it only works the first time through the CGI per apache
    BL> child process.  Ever follow on will fail to import some random
    BL> module.

I hope I'll be testing PyApache with Python 2.1 during the weekend, or
the next week. What is exactly the error message?

thanx&bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Hold on, hold on - They put you in a box so you
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| can't get heard - Let your spirit stay unbroken, 
email: lele at seldati.it	| may you not be deterred - P.Gabriel "Wallflower"




From hnowak at cuci.nl  Fri Aug 31 11:00:57 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:00:57 +0200
Subject: emulating sequences
Message-ID: <3B94D89A@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From John Hunter <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> 
=====
>I have a user defined type that I would like to behave like a
>sequence, eg
>
>results = MyType()
>for result in results:
>        blah
>
>Talking about special methods, Beazley in 'Essential Python' says that
>the following methods are used by objects that want to emulate
>sequence and mapping objects:
>
>__len__, __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__, __getslice__,
>__setslice__, __delslice__
>
>If I implement each of these for MyType, then can I get the desired
>behavior?  If so, is there a subset that is sufficient just to get the
>'in' behavior?

Yes. You only need __getitem__:

>>> class Seq:
	def __init__(self, seq):
		self.seq = seq
	def __getitem__(self, index):
		return self.seq[index]

>>> s = Seq("cocoricoo")
>>> for c in s: print c,

c o c o r i c o o

In 2.2, you can define an iterator for this, by the way.

>Finally, if you have a sequence, what is the best way to get an index
>of the first match of a value in a find command, similar to the C++
>
>   i = find(s.begin(), s.end(), val)
>
>Is there such a function, and if so, what is the illegal value
>indicating failure to find?

Well, there's the string method find():

>>> s = "abracadabra"
>>> s.find("c")
4
>>> s.find("z")  # not in the string, obviously
-1

>>> print s.find.__doc__
S.find(sub [,start [,end]]) -> int

Return the lowest index in S where substring sub is found,
such that sub is contained within s[start,end].  Optional
arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

Return -1 on failure.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Tue Aug 21 00:48:01 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 21:48:01 -0700
Subject: [Q/newbie] Converting object names to strings and back?
References: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xr8u6hvcu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Look up the pickle module.  It probably does what you want.


From tbryan at python.net  Tue Aug  7 22:33:15 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 07:33:15 +0500
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <9kj96l$vub$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <9e231a88.0108062140.1434c3fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kr7qf$esu$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Lang wrote:

I'm not sure whether you saw Sam's reply.  It contains some good 
suggestions, but it may lack too many details for you.  See what 
you think and post again if you run into trouble.

> The posted script, of course, works perfectly.  But looking back to my
> original posting, I realize I didn't really articulate my problem very
> clearly.

[...explanation of maintaining state across pages using hidden fields...]

> In my original updating script, it updates the values in the database,
> sets the form values as shown above, then prints out a button.  When
> this button is clicked, it loads the default month script with the
> month/year values set to those of the date I was just changing.  With
> the HTML bit quoted below I click the submit button after making
> changes, the database gets updated, and the default month script loads
> all with just one click.  That is what I want, but the values are lost
> and it defaults to the current date.  This can be a pain if I am
> making several changes in December and it's now August.

Understood.  You're familiar with the difference between GET and POST 
queries?  You might consider presenting the default page based on a 
GET query.  That way, you could redirect to a page using 
http://www.wherever.org/cgi-bin/script.py?month=04&day=25

You may also be able to write the redirect with additional data for a 
POST query, but I'm afraid that you're quickly exhausting the little 
I know about Web programming.  :-)  Perhaps someone else could 
help.

Does the cgi module transparently handle GET and POST queries so 
that the same script can be called with either?

> Sorry for the long wordy post.  I've little experience programming and
> less with Python, but I'm trying.

No problem.  Keep at it.  Again, you should look at Sam's post because 
it contains some good recommendations about using better encapsulation 
and abstraction in your program.
 
> In short, does anyone know how to submit data to a script, have the
> script run, and then load another page with the values still intact
> with no user interaction (other than the first click)?  Thanks again.

I'd seriously look at a GET query either for all of your calls to the 
script or for at least the redirect call.

Good luck,
---Tom



From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Aug  7 17:33:19 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 21:33:19 GMT
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
References: <mailman.996997688.23101.python-list@python.org> <ik6jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <slrn9n0nku.im5.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:20:02 +0200, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de>
wrote:
>Like in most of the cases I played with generators, you could have replaced
>them with a simple s = "" at the beginning, replace every yield with s +=
><whatever> and a return s at the end. I think you can always do this if all you
>want is a list.
>
>>I like generators :-)
>
>I like them, too :-)

Well, better to do the usual make-list-then-join idiom, not "s = s + foo".

Generators are cool, but I think they have a danger of other "cool" features:
the urge to use them when you don't really need them.  I fall into this with
list comprehensions all the time.  I'll need some simple operation, and write
[ f(x) for x in a ].  Then I'll need to do some more, so I'll write
[ g(f(x)) for x in a + b ].  I wind up with things like

for k, v in [ k.strip(), v.strip() for k, v in line.split('=')
                for line in open(self.config_file).readlines()
                if not line.beginswith('#') ]:
    self.dict[k] = v

... which I quickly dismantle and rewrite as a series of statements in the
loop, which I'll have to do anyway if I want the "parsing" to be smarter.  I
should have started with a loop in the first place.

I have a feeling that myself and others are going to feel tempted to use
generators when a list would be more flexible and easier to understand.  They
make it easy to give yourself an "it'll be more efficient" rationale, and we
all know how misleading those are.  Besides, they're just plain nifty.  Like
list comprehensions, I'll be (subconciously, perhaps) *looking* for uses for
them.


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 16:01:10 2001
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:01:10 GMT
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
References: <20010829171028.B8680@Nutella> <mailman.999098332.24419.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010829160110.853$XB@newsreader.com>

Nicolas Evrard <nicoe at wanadoo.be> wrote:
> the definition of __comp__ I've done :
>
>     def __comp__(self, other) :

Your __comp__ method is not being called.
It's __cmp__ not comp!
BTW, complex numbers are builtin in Python.

Regards,
-Hernan

-- 
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
                    Usenet Newsgroup Service


From gmcm at hypernet.com  Tue Aug 28 14:01:24 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:01:24 -0400
Subject: ANN: MkSQL release 0a0
Message-ID: <3B8BA434.26042.14C834AB@localhost>

The first alpha release of MkSQL is here:

  http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/mksqlintro.html

What is it?
    MkSQL is a Python package which implements a SQL 
    front end to the MetaKit database. It implements 
    a large subset of the SQL 2 (aka SQL 92) standard, 
    and comes with a Python DBI version 2 interface.

Prerequisites:
    Python 2.1 (or later). 
    MetaKit 2.4 including the metakit.py wrapper. 
    mx.TextTools from the egenix mxBase package. 
    (Links on page referenced above).

More Details:
    MkSQL can be used to query or update any existing 
    MetaKit database which has a relational structure. 
    Basically that means that subviews are ignored.

    In addition, if you use MkSQL to define your 
    database structure, MkSQL will enforce integrity 
    constraints on all update, insert and delete 
    statements.

    Note that MkSQL is not a database server. MetaKit 
    is an embedded database, and MkSQL does nothing to 
    change that.

License:
    MIT license.
    
Contact:
    gmcm at hypernet.com

<P><A HREF="http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/mksqlintro.html">
MkSQL release 0a0</A> A SQL front-end for MetaKit
(cross-platform). (28-Aug-01)


- Gordon



From rnd at onego.ru  Wed Aug  1 13:19:06 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:19:06 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [OT] RE: ????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
In-Reply-To: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52A3@il93exm04.css.mot.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108012107510.1163-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote:

I am glad to see international spam here to remind US people of existence
of non-US ASCII charsets ;-)

Clearly, your answer is no more readable, Kemp, because your mail program
do not represent cyrillic characters properly.

It's a pity computer software/hardware was (and still is) developed with
such a narrow view of the world... Maybe Unicode will solve this problem.
Or, better, Universal Network Language (UNL) will allow spammers to have
world-wide audience ;-) and everybody could buy an administrative building
(910 sq. m.) in Kazan city, Tatarstan, Russia. (Word of warning: TV news
said there is outburst of cholera in Kazan now...)

>I have a "question" on what this message is about.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: zdanie at dr.com [mailto:zdanie at dr.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:13 AM
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: ????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
>
>
>????????????! ???? ????????.
>
>?????????? ?????????? ? ????????????? ???????????????? ?????? ? ??????
>(?????????, ??????):
>- ????? ??????? 910 ??. ?;
>- 2 ?????;
>- ??????? ?????????? ????????? ?? 7 ?? 200 ??.?;
>- ??????????? ?????????? - ????????? ??????? 0,101 ??.
>
>?????? - ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????. ????? ???????? ????????????:
>- ???????? ?????? - ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ??????????? ????????? ?????;
>- ??????? ?????????? ????;
>- ?????? ? ?????? ?????? - 5 ???. ????;
>- ?????? ? ?/? ???????  - 5 ???. ????;
>- ????? ?????? ????;
>- ????? ?/? ????.
>
>?????? ???????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????? ????????????????? ?????
>???????? ? ?????????? ??? ????????. ???????? ?????????? "????/?????". ???
>???????????? ?????????. ?????? ??????? ??????? (?????? ?????????? ???????,
>??????? ????? ??????? ? ??????? ?????). ?????? ????????? ? ???????
>?????????????. ????? - ? ?????????? ???????????.
>
>???? ?????? - ????? ??? ????????.
>
>???? ?? ?????????????? ? ????????? ?? ??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?
>?????? ???????, ????????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????: zdanie at europe.com. ???
>???? ? "????" ????????? ??????????? ????????:
>"???????? ????????? ??????????".
>
>
>
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Wednesday, August 01, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Be nice to other people, they outnumber you 5.5 billion to 1." _/




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 31 06:29:25 2001
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (piet at cs.uu.nl)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 12:29:25 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <uwv3kcyka.fsf@cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) (GK) writes:

GK> 1) normally, you call functions in python like this:
GK> name '(' arg { ',' arg } ')'

GK> however, 'print' is a special function in that its arguments can be
GK> written without enclosing brackets. 

It is not *can*, it is *must*.
I.e. print (a,b) is different from print a,b

GK> Wouldn't it be nice if you *could*
GK> call your "normal" functions in the same way? Would that require too
GK> much of a change to the python language?

So what would blob (a,b) mean? Is the argument (a,b) or are there two
arguments a and b?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From DimodC at excite.com  Thu Aug 23 19:42:15 2001
From: DimodC at excite.com (Damon)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:42:15 -0700
Subject: newbie:Strange Error
Message-ID: <168b4ef7.0108231542.46647c8f@posting.google.com>

hello to all of you....

I m new to python and programming in general, so I ll
appreciate any help.

I m currently learning thru some tutorials i found on the web,
and in one of them there was this little script:

----------------------------------
psw = "haha"

while psw != "python" :
    psw = raw_input("Password:")
print "Welcome in."

----------------------------------

When i run it thru the IDLE i always get this error:

>>>
  File "<string>", line 1
    reload(pass)
              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

>>

But if i run it thru IdleFork 0.8.1 then everything is ok
and i recieve no errors.The same goes if i double click
the .py file in its folder and run it thru an ms-dos window -
runs smoothly and give no error.
Only IDLE gives me that error.Anybody knows why?

If i didn't have IdleFork then i would think that the code for
the script has an error and maybe throw out the whole tutorial
and find another one,or try to find what's the error in the code.
But it seems that the code is ok (is it?) and i get an error only
from the official python interpreter :-)

I ll appreciate any help.
(i have python 2.1.1 on Win95 OEM-B)

Damon


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 24 11:22:03 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:22:03 +0100
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...)
References: <mailman.998669338.17164.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m6k8p$21f$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

tanzer at swing.co.at wrote:
>    IO_Exception_Map  = { 2 : NoSuchFile
>                        , ...
>                        , 13 : PermissionDenied
>                        , ...
>                        , 20 : NotADirectory
>                        }

This isn't correct.  You can't use 2 and expect that to be
the right number.  You need to use errno.ENOENT instead of 2 since
it may be different on different machines.  Quoting from
errnomodule.c

] The value of each symbol is the corresponding integer value,
] e.g., on most systems, errno.ENOENT equals the integer 2.

and the implementation is

] #ifdef ENOENT
]         inscode(d, ds, de, "ENOENT", ENOENT, "No such file or directory");
] #endif


The list of error codes in errnomodule.c is ...

        /*
         * The names and comments are borrowed from linux/include/errno.h,
         * which should be pretty all-inclusive
         */

which means it doesn't necessarily include error codes from different OSes.
But the .get() would work around that.

> I can't follow. The IO_Exception_Map could still map ETXTBSY to
> TextBusy -- that this exception isn't raised on a specific system
> shouldn't be a problem for anybody, should it?

Ahh, my concern was that if a platform doesn't have a given errno
then there shouldn't be an exception defined for it.  But there's
no need for that.


But my point probably boils down to that the C errno interface
doesn't have a discovery process to figure out all the error numbers
that are supported, and the exception values and meanings may differ on
different platforms, so it's complicated to make things occur the
way you want them to.

It can be done, but is the complexity worth it?  I've never needed
to be that precise in any of my code, so I'm not going to spend
any more time worrying about this.

Also, looking through the Python code, there's a lot of places which
put the errno into the exception, not just IOError

PyErr_SetFromErrno(BsddbError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(CdError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(DbmError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(ImgfileError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(LinuxAudioError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_IOError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_RuntimeError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(PyExc_ValueError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(PySocket_Error);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(ResourceError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(SelectError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(SunAudioError);
PyErr_SetFromErrno(mmap_module_error);
PyErr_SetFromErrnoWithFilename(LinuxAudioError,
PyErr_SetFromErrnoWithFilename(SunAudioError,

so quite a bit of the code may need to be changed.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From alan.green at cardboard.nu  Sat Aug 18 06:22:24 2001
From: alan.green at cardboard.nu (Alan Green)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:22:24 GMT
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <mailman.998073148.20297.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7E40C1.C9BDA3AB@cardboard.nu>

Perhaps I should have written 'threatens to support multi-threaded debugging at
some unspecified point in the future'.

This statement is based on the page:
http://aspn.activestate.com//ASPN/Reference/Products/VisualPython/manual.html#debugging_programs

Which says:
Threads (Ctrl-Alt-H)   Not yet supported 

Did I read this correctly?

Alan.

Brian wrote:
> Alan wrote:
> > All of these IDEs have a debugger. None support multi-threaded
> > debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.
> 
> VisualPython does not support debugging multi-threaded Python scripts.
> If some part of our documentation is misleading, could you point it
> out?
> 
> --
> Brian Quinlan
> Python and XSLT Developer
> BrianQ at ActiveState.com
> 
> ASPN - ActiveState Programmer Network
> Essential programming tools and information
> http://aspn.ActiveState.com/ASPN

-- 
Alan Green           alan at cardboard.nu
Cardboard Nu         http://cardboard.nu
Cardboard Schedule - Simple, Effective Project Planning and Tracking.


From sophiec at scripps.edu  Thu Aug 16 12:47:31 2001
From: sophiec at scripps.edu (Sophie Coon)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:47:31 -0700
Subject: SMTP
References: <mailman.997956746.8212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7BF923.B8E03349@scripps.edu>

That is how I do it :
subject  = "My subject"
body = "My message"
msg = "Subject:"+subject+"\n"+body
server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
server.quit()

Hope that helps
Sophie
############################################################
Sophie COON	              The Scripps Research Institute
Research Programmer III       Molecular Graphics Laboratory
			      10550 North Torrey Pines Road
Phone: (858) 784-9556                    La Jolla, CA 92037 
Fax  : (858) 784-2860
############################################################


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug  7 12:26:54 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 09:26:54 -0700
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <3B6C4108.F2D51223@engcorp.com> <jtg0b5guox.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <9kp4se$gsr$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <jtg0b5guox.fsf at wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>,
William Annis  <annis at biostat.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>        I was with you up to the web interface.  I don't know about
>you, but *this* sysadmin breaks out in hives at the idea of putting
>system control and configuration behind a web server... by definition
>a public service.

On the gut level, I kind of agree with you.  But let's walk through
this, shall we?  What, really, is the difference between a telnet
session and a web session?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From timd at macquarie.com.au  Wed Aug 15 20:30:44 2001
From: timd at macquarie.com.au (Timothy Docker)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 10:30:44 +1000
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <m4ielqeqlne.fsf@macquarie.com.au> <9ldfjr$6m852@owl.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m4iae10rgln.fsf@macquarie.com.au>

> I gave up after a couple of days of tweaking. I've since found out (I
> think) that I need to make sure that the wxGTK and wxPython versions are
> identical, and use gmake everwhere where it tells you to use make.   But I
> found it hard to work out which compiler to use, i.e. C or C++, and gnu or
> Sun's own.   I guess I still haven't exhausted all the possibilities, I
> just exhausted my own patience.

Although I use suns C++ compiler for local development, I alway use gcc
for compiling python related stuff. I have a "sandbox" type of
environment that has all the gnu tools (gnu-make,bash etc) on the path
in front of the sun equivalents, in order to get stuff building in
the way the developers would have.

> Even Python itself doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris using gcc,
> only using Sun's cc, which is rather a pity.

Hmmm. It did so perfectly for me, on sol2.7 with gcc2.95.2.

Which gcc version? Which solaris version? What was you problem?

Tim



From nbrewer at visi.com  Fri Aug 24 00:39:42 2001
From: nbrewer at visi.com (Chris Farley)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 04:39:42 GMT
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
References: <mailman.998591255.15071.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iUkh7.10906$x84.3046479@ruti.visi.com>

Bruce Sass <bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Chris Farley wrote:

>> Does this mean I can't distribute just the .DLL, and that I need to
>> distribute the entire non-commercial version of Qt? Ack!

> You should be able to handle it the same way GPLed software
> distributors do... make separate binary and source packages, have both
> available so your users can get to the source they want it.

Except, the 'non-commercial' edition of Qt for Windows is not distributed
under a GPL-compatible license (unlike the X11 version of Qt). 

It *sounds* like they want you to be able to develop free (as in free
beer) software; they go so far as to insist that you may 'include an
executable version of your software'. My software won't actually execute
without qt-mt230nc.dll, so I assume it's okay to include it.  
However, I would prefer to not distribute the 'entire package', which I
take to mean as the entire Qt Non-Commercial Edition, which includes,
among other things, Qt-Designer, API documentation, etc.

Of course, I can't find *any* examples of free Windows Qt distributed as
binaries.

> Of course, TrollTech are really the ones to ask.

Indeed. I was just wondering if anybody in this group has any experience
with these licensing issues...

-- 
Christopher Farley
www.northernbrewer.com


From jason at tishler.net  Thu Aug  2 14:54:52 2001
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:54:52 -0400
Subject: C/Cygwin/Python
In-Reply-To: <3B671AC6.A21B6C6D@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>
Message-ID: <20010802145452.B393@dothill.com>

Alexander,

On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:53:26PM -0700, Alexander V. Voinov wrote:
> Jason Tishler wrote:
> > Yes, but only if your extension does not require Posix semantics (i.e.,
> > only the standard C runtime stuff).
> >
> > IIRC, you want something like the following:
> >
> >     python setup.py build_ext --compiler=cygwin
> >
> > Note that I usually only build Cygwin Python extensions,
> 
> Do you mean that your extensions are compatible with the standard win32
> Python installation, which is built with VC?

No, in my experience Cygwin Python extensions do *not* work with Win32
Python.

> As I recall the whole point of
> special instruction for no-cygwin python extension was that only in this case
> they can be loaded into the standard python.exe

Yes, the above is correct.

> and you do not have to
> recompile the whole distribution. Is this right (meaning that you do compile
> the whole distribution)?

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "recompile the whole
distribution."

Jason

-- 
Jason Tishler
Director, Software Engineering       Phone: 732.264.8770 x235
Dot Hill Systems Corp.               Fax:   732.264.8798
82 Bethany Road, Suite 7             Email: jason at tishler.net
Hazlet, NJ 07730 USA                 WWW:   http://www.dothill.com



From chapman at bioreason.com  Thu Aug  9 12:53:10 2001
From: chapman at bioreason.com (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 10:53:10 -0600
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk> <3B72B804.8E576001@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3B72BFF6.39AB5230@bioreason.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> Mark Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and
> > deleting
> > elements that don't meet a certain criteria.
> 
> Use filter to make a new list, and then replace the original list with
> the filtered one.
> 
> Modifying a list in place while you're iterating over it isn't a very
> good idea.

Another variation is to iterate across a copy while removing from
the original list.

    for x in list[:]:
        if x > y:
            list.remove(x)


-- 
Mitch Chapman
Mitch.Chapman at bioreason.com


From Maciej.Sobczak at cern.ch  Tue Aug 28 03:51:34 2001
From: Maciej.Sobczak at cern.ch (Maciej Sobczak)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:51:34 +0200
Subject: Header inconsistency?
Message-ID: <9mfikp$ajf$1@sunnews.cern.ch>

Hi,

I'm trying to get my hands dirty with extensions and modules written in
C/C++. I try to use SWIG.
When I've set up to compile the extension as a dynamic library, I've found
that in file config.h that is shipped with Python distribution there are
lines:

typedef long intptr_t;
typedef unsigned long uintptr_t;

whereas in some other files shipped with my compiler (indirectly included by
my lib code) there are:

typedef int intptr_t;
typedef unsigned int uintptr_t;

The net result is that the compiler complains about different base types in
type redefinitions.
I've changed the config.h file to fit the rest and got my job done.

However, I've got a question:
Is this a problem? Or a bug? Should/Can I tinker with the files distributed
with Python this way? Is this a known problem?

Few details:
I use ActiveState2.1.0 distribution and MSVC++ compiler on Win2000.

Thanks in advance,

--
Interested in distributed, object-based programming?
Complete and consistent environment for Linux, Windows, ..., C, C++, ASP,
VB, ...
check: http://www.cern.ch/maciej/prog/yami

Maciej Sobczak, http://www.cern.ch/Maciej.Sobczak
"in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice - but in
practice, there is"





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 14:59:20 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:59:20 -0700
Subject: programme call with popen
References: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com> <3B8D2533.9DDDF419@ccvcorp.com> <slrn.pl.9oqbqt.ok2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <3B8D3B88.BFB9C8FE@ccvcorp.com>


Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:

> Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:24:03 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> pisze:
>
> >>>> myoutput = fout.read()
> >
> > Note that this will block until the program has finished running.
>
> I'm not sure about Windows, but it won't block that long on Unix.
> Both processes will run in parallel exchanging data. The consumer
> will temporarily block when the queue is empty and the producer will
> block when the queue's buffer is full.

Hm, I'm not positive about this as I haven't tested it, but I was under the
impression that since read(), with no arguments, reads the entire file
until EOF, that it would not return until EOF was reached, i.e., the piped
program terminates.  It is definately true that if one uses readline(), or
read(blocksize), that both programs will run in parallel.  My own (rare)
uses of popen have involved using read(blocksize)-type constructs only...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From new_name at mit.edu  Tue Aug 14 23:54:40 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 23:54:40 -0400
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

import urllib

def checkURL(url):
    try: urllib.urlopen(url)
    except IOError: return 0
    return 1

if __name__ == '__main__':
    assert checkURL('http://slashdot.org')
    assert not checkURL('http://foo')
    
HTH.
Alex.


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 10:47:33 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:47:33 +0200
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <mailman.999263627.3276.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mo8260712@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999263627.3276.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Fred> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
>
> I'm sure there are more clever ways, but this seems to work:

Sorry for "hijacking" your response skip, but I didn't get
Fred's original question!  So -- the locale module is the
one that serves this need:

>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_NUMERIC, 'us')
'English_United States.1252'
>>> locale.format("%d",1024*1024,1)
'1,048,576'
>>>

Unfortunately, this implies a global, non-thread-safe
change, and is NOT oriented to just letting one format
a number once with a given thousand-separator, so it
may or may not be what one was looking for.


Alex






From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Mon Aug 13 16:18:49 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:18:49 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org>; from python-list-request@python.org on Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 02:02:01PM -0400
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20010813161849.B26137@starmedia.net>

I don't know if this was intended, but it appears that the metaclass
instantiation doesn't work with Python 2.2a1.  Are the old metaclass
things no longer supported in 2.2 or is it just temporarily broken?

TIA,
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 16 09:30:57 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:30:57 +0200
Subject: string operations (ctrl characters)
Message-ID: <3B7C7066@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk> =====
>"Hans Nowak" <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message
>news:mailman.997950925.22550.python-list at python.org...
>
>> You don't *need* regexen for this, though. One approach could be, scanning 
the
>> string for "acceptable" characters, and replacing anything else with some
>> default character, or removing it.
>
>That would not be best in this case, as he is seeing ANSI escape sequences.
>You often see things like <ESC>[23m ; there is a general syntax for them so
>a good emulator should be able to parse and ignore unrecognised codes.
>Unfortunately, there is no obvious "end escape sequence" delimiter, so its
>not entirely trivial.

Oh! I am using a web-based mail reader right now, and could not see some of 
the sequences he quoted, thus not realizing it was ANSI. (Some module that 
parses and shows text with ANSI-codes is on my to-do list, but I have nothing 
practical or working yet... <frown>)

--Hans Nowak




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 19:47:29 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:47:29 -0500
Subject: is this a bug?
In-Reply-To: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <15227.2577.142547.850512@beluga.mojam.com>

    Bill> Do you find anything irrational to the following session?

    >>> a='+='
    >>> a is a
    1
    >>> a is '+='
    0

Nope.  "is" simply compares the two PyObject * pointers represented by the
variable "a" and the string literal "+=".  The second "+=" is a different
string object than the first one.  There is no obligation on the part of the
interpreter to intern any or all strings it encounters, and it doesn't in
the typical case.

Try this:

    >>> def f():
    ...   a = "+="
    ...   print a is a
    ...   print a is "+="
    ... 
    >>> f()
    1
    1

It is left as an exercise for the reader why the result of executing f()
produces different results than the previous interactive session.  ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From LArbilla at pav.com  Mon Aug  6 15:54:30 2001
From: LArbilla at pav.com (LArbilla at pav.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:54:30 -0500 
Subject: win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a pythom COM s
	erver - found it!
Message-ID: <24C5595F6FE1D211B5A700A0C9AB2EC1019F26A3@pav10exc.pav.com>

I found the problems:
1) I had a field, _pid, in class RAE, which I meant as private.  However it
needed to be declared
in _public_attrs_.  Is there a _private_attrs_ declaration ?
2) Also, the line:
			self._pid = raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(fileName)
needed to be changed to
			self._pid =
raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(str(fileName))
to avoid an error converting between Unicode and Python strings.

FYI,
Laura.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Laura Arbilla 
> Sent:	Monday, August 06, 2001 12:15 PM
> To:	'python-list at python.org'
> Subject:	win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a pythom COM
> server
> 
> I'm seriously stuck (2 days now) at my first attempt to use win32com to
> write a com server in python.
> I've search and read all I could find and I still don't see how to solve
> the problem:
>   
> 1) I wrote a simple COM server in python, it registers and I can see it in
> PythonWin's COM Browser:
> 2) I tried to use it from VB:
> 	Dim theServer As Object
> 	Set theServer = CreateObject("Python.Rae")
>    and got error -2147467259 (80004005) "Unexpected Python Error:
> exceptions.ImportError: No module named raecom"
> 3) So, I decided to first test it from Python.
>    The client calls the server's  __init__ (from
> win32com.client.Dispatch), 
>    but the call fails with the same error (in python, it only shows
> -2147467259)
> 3) I tried:
> 	- putting all of the code in c:\program files\python  (where python
> and win32com are installed)
> 		and it didn't make a difference
> 	- I also tried commenting out the line "_reg_class_spec", which has
> the only reference to "raecom"
> 		and it didn't make a difference
> 
> I would appreciate any tips. I'm sure it is something simple.
> Below is the code for the server, the client and the "trace".
> Thanks a bunch!!
> Laura.
> larbilla at pav.com
> 
> SERVER CODE:
> import win32com.server
> import raeapimodule
> import win32traceutil
> 
> class Rae:
> 	_public_methods_ = ['ConfigFromFile', 'Init']
> 	_public_attrs_ = ['projectName']
> 	_readonly_attrs_ = ['projectName']
> 	_reg_clsid_ = "{8680B790-875A-11d5-9A59-005004630197}"
> 	_reg_progid_ = "Python.Rae"
> 	_reg_desc_ = "Python COM RAE Wrapper"
> 	_reg_class_spec_ = "raecom.Rae"
> #only for dual interfaces
> #	_com_interfaces_ = ['IRae']
> 	def __init__(self):
> 		print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ being called"
> 		self._pid = -1
> 		print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ uno"
> 		self.projectName = ""
> 		print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ dos"
> 		return 1
> 	def ConfigFromFile(self, fileName):
> 		print "raecom.py.class Rae.ConfigFromFile being called"
> 		self._pid = raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(fileName)
> 		if (self._pid > 0):
> 			self.projectName = fileName
> 		return self._pid
> 	def Init(self):
> 		print "raecom.py.class Rae.Init being called"
> 		status = raeapimodule.Init(self._pid)
> 		return status
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 	import win32com.server.register
> 	win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(Rae)
> 
> CLIENT CODE:
> 
> import win32com.client
> print "start"
> o = win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.Rae")
> print "called dispatch"
> o.ConfigFromFile("c:\\larbilla\\test\\raetest\\pull_multimap_4.pi_ot_confi
> g")
> print "called configfromfile"
> print o.projectName
> 
> TRACEUTIL:
> 
> Registered: Python.Rae 
> start  <--- this actually shows in the command line
> raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ being called
> raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ uno
> raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ dos
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "raecomtest.py", line 4, in ?
>     o = win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.Rae")
>   File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\__init__.py", line 94, in
> Dispatch
>     dispatch, userName =
> dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
>   File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 80, in
> _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
>     return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
>   File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 71, in
> _GetGoodDispatch
>     IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
> pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
> pywintypes.com_error: (-2147467259, 'Unspecified error', None, None)
> 
> 



From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 21:50:35 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 01:50:35 -0000
Subject: MIC Images in PIL???
Message-ID: <9lkhlb+ujqe@eGroups.com>

I read in a couple of places that PIL has read-only support for 
microsoft image composer images. This would help me a lot since a 
lot of my old files are MIC files. But when I use the viewer.py 
file, it says it cannot identify the image! Can anyone help> Why 
doesn't this work?





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Aug 25 14:33:24 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:33:24 -0700
Subject: [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3] returns 0?
References: <b03e80d.0108251027.508cb788@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B87EF74.BB1841F4@alcyone.com>

Sandy Norton wrote:

> Please excuse me if this is a dumb comment that has been made before.
> 
> Recently, I was rather surprised by the following behavior:
> 
> Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> lst = [1,2,3]
> >>> sublst = [1,2]
> >>> sublst in lst
> 0
> 
> I am sure there's a good reason why it would be considered unpythonic
> for the above to return 1... I just can't get my puny brain to figure
> it out right now.

The in operator, when used on a sequence returns true if the left-hand
operand is an _element_ of the sequence, regardless of whether that
operand is itself a sequence:

max at oxygen:~crank% python
Python 2.0 (#2, Apr  4 2001, 19:28:30) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> [1, 2] in [1, 2, 3]
0
>>> 1 in [1, 2, 3]
1
>>> [1, 2] in [[1, 2], [2, 3], [3, 4]]
1

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Do you like what you see / Do you like yourself
\__/ Neneh Cherry
    REALpolitik / http://www.realpolitik.com/
 Get your own customized newsfeed online in realtime ... for free!


From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug 15 19:41:02 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:41:02 -0700
Subject: is this a bug?
In-Reply-To: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <001c01c125e3$bf1346c0$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

> I apologize if this has been brought to the attention of this
> group before. Maybe I did misunderstand the use of the 'is'
> operator, but then how it is supposed to work?

There is a difference between the "is" and "==" operators:
"==" assess equivalence
"is" assess identity

So "is" will return 1 iff the underlying objects being compared are
the same objects. There is a bit of a gotcha here because Python will
try to reuse objects when it can do so e.g.

>>> a = 1
>>> b = 1
>>> a is b # small numbers are precreated for reuse
1
>>> a = 1000
>>> b = 1000
>>> a is b # large ones are not
0

The bottom line is that you should rarely use the "is" operator except
when testing if an object is None (there is only one None object in
Python).

Cheers,
Brian




From myemail at any.where.com  Wed Aug 15 12:43:59 2001
From: myemail at any.where.com (myemail at any.where.com)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 16:43:59 GMT
Subject: ¥þ­±¤ä´© SSI, PHP, MySQL, ASP, Perl, VB Scrip ¥u¶·HK$99 ºô¦s110MB
Message-ID: <9le8sf$4b78295@rain.i-cable.com>

???????? SSI, PHP, MySQL, ASP, Perl, VB Scrip ?u??HK$99 ???s110MB 

HkPower.Com Hosting Service
110MB?W?u???????s???A??HK$99.?A????
http://webhost.hkpower.com/superplan2.asp

???????B?g?????f???????H?s?A???A?u?? HK$99 ?@????....

?A?Q???????v???H/???q???????H
?A?Q???????v???????W???? (yourname.com)?H
?A?????N?{?b???????H?s?A?????H
???p???????????A???a?C


???? HkPower.Com ?????H?s?A???A?A?i?H?????G
?W?S?f???? : - 110MB ???x?s?q?A?u???C?? HK$99
?]?A?G

-  POP3 ?q?l???f?@???A?j?p???z?w?A???? WEB BASE
-?@?L?? Alias Account ?q?l???H?A?h?????H?A?????^??????
?@ ?i?b?????W???oEmail.. - FTP / FrontPage 98-2000 ???? 24?p?????????z
-?@?K?O?N???????????W?? http://webhost.hkpower.com
-?@250MB ?W???S???M?u?s?????~ Internet ?????? HKIX
-?@?L???q???? Sub-domain ($100/each)
-?@?p?H CGI-BIN
-?@???W?????s?????? http://webhost.hkpower.com/ftp
-?@?C??????????
-?@?K?O?? CGI ?{??, ?L??CGI?g???A?{???D
?@?@?]?A?G ?X???p????, ?N???c(form to email), ?d????, ??????..???{???H?A?????e
-?@???????? SSI, Java Chat, PHP, MySQL, ASP, Perl, VB Scrip ??
-?@?K?O???g ASP ???????? <- ?????U???????????????A?????|?K?O?????@??????????
   ???]?p???{???????????Q?????D
-?@?i???w???~???? (e.g.: Error 404, Error 505) http://webhost.hkpower.com/error
-?@?????q?l??ICQ???D?????A?? (ICQ:999618)
-?@30 ???h???O?? <- ???????????????A???????W?s???f?}?l???????}?l?p???A?T?Q??
???p???????N?O???h?^???O?D
-?@7 ???K?O?}?i????

???W?A???????????A???n???F?A???????????????A???a!

???OHK$99???A?????w???@?~
?? : ?u???Y?@???W???????D?D

???Y???o?????????A?? http://webhost.hkpower.com/formssl
???????U?????O???[!!!

?w???d?????? : 2710-8387
URL : http://webhost.hkpower.com
email : webmaster at hkpower.com
ICQ : 999618

************************************
???b?????Q?P???B???p,???S???Q?????? IDD???
???????????S?????^???I?Y???W?????r???
??????, ?i?H?????f??......
?????H???K?O"?s?F??/???y"?n????????
?????U???{???w????????
?u???G?????????[?J Plug-in ?Y?i
???????????o???a, ?????H?????@???????????|??

?????K?O updup ?q?l?A??????...
http://www.updup.com
=================================
?h???A?[?J?K?F???? Top 100?C
?A???|???s???O 3167?A???A?O???o?????X?A???K???????z?????????C 
3168



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug 22 01:25:45 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:25:45 +0200
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "21 Aug 2001 16:24:53 PDT."
             <u1ym5atdm.fsf_-_@advancedmp.net> 
Message-ID: <m15ZQWP-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

Don Dwiggins <dwig at advancedmp.net> wrote:

> So, are there some good patterns, idioms, or whatever to provide
> guidance on when to use exceptions vs. checking error codes, etc.
> (other than the obvious general qualities: ease of use, readability,
> modifiability, ...)?

Don't use error codes.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 03:39:21 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:39:21 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <9mkqj9017al@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8dc97b.60293093 at news.isar.de...
    ...
> There might be a slight ambiguity when function names are used without
> arguments, because it then could be interpreted as either the function
> object or the function call; but then again, I see writing the
> function name as object without assigning it to some variable or some
> such as rather pointless.

And of course there's no problem interpreting whether:

    blobber plikke

means:

    blobber(plikke)

or:

    blobber(plikke())

is there?  I mean, it just takes some mindreading on the
part of the compiler, interpreter AND human reader, that's
all -- they'll just have to know or guess whether plikke
names a function (or other callable object) and in that
case whether it's "pointless" or "indispensable" for the
plikke object itself to be passed in as the argument to
blobber -- as opposed to its being called and the RESULT
of the call passed as blobber's argument.  Piece of cake.


> IIRC VB (yuk!) can do something similar. But then, VB is possibly the
> *worst* kind of advocacy possible.

I think it's exactly the right kind of advocacy for this
proposal -- side by side with Perl, which also does its
context-dependent black magic to guess what you can
possibly mean when you omit the parentheses and such,
and gets it right some part of the time.

I'd MUCH rather use a language that does *NOT* try to
guess what I mean (and gets it right part of the time),
but just lets me express my meaning explicitly, simply
and precisely, thank you very much.  E.g., Python is
quite good at just letting me say what I mean!-)


Alex





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Tue Aug  7 02:16:57 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:16:57 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <mailman.997048811.22969.python-list@python.org> <459umtohbc1q062j2sgflcc0pmond739vv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B6F87D8.F51FC0F6@ActiveState.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> The facts are quite simple, though. Some on the pro-PEP have tried to
> use field theory as a justification for the claim that integer
> division does not exist in mathematics, and should therefore be
> supported only through a distinct operator. 

I think it is quite the opposite. Truncating division is *so important*
that it deserves its own operator so that people who see it can know
exactly what they are dealing with, without relying on comments or other
contextual clues.

> ... Yet they are quite happy
> to lose the distinctions between numeric domains by discarding the
> metadata implicit in types, apparently simply to suit the needs of
> heavy users of floats and first-day programmers.

As I've said elsewhere in the thread, experienced programmers also get
bitten by this problem. It is a well-known Python "gotcha" for newbies
and experienced programmers alike.

>...
> Guido then raised the view that other languages would only be relevant
> if we knew the rationale for the change. At which point I noted that
> Java deliberately kept the division behaviour from C and C++ whereas
> Ada deliberately changed from the two-division-operators used in
> Pascal etc. That is, where a language has been created based on a
> deliberate attempt to take past languages and clean them up, the only
> two examples I'm aware of have shown a clear preference to division
> the same way that Python currently does it. And the rationales are
> available on the web if you care to look.

Decisions made in the construction of statically typed languages are
totally irrelevant. In terms of relevancy could just as easily discuss
what various 8-bit CPU designers chose to do. The division problem is an
issue in Python *because it is a dynamically typed language* and because
the "metadata" attached to types is hardly ever explicit in the
language. 

>...
> How many people around here have explicitly admitted they are wrong
> when they are wrong?

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/687223

Your tendency to bring in the kitchen sink into these arguments makes it
hard to respond and gives one the impression that the conversation will
never crystallize into a core of technical disagreement that could be
debated. It seems that it will always spin out into a new tangent.

The core issue, from my point of view, and, it seems, from Guido's, is
that Python encourages you to think of integers as a performance
optimization for rational numbers. Floats are also a performance
optimization for rationals. If Moore's law keeps up we will probably one
day move from the optimizations to the "real thing." That's where Guido
would like to go.

That doesn't mean that "discrete mathematics" is a degenerate case of
"continuous mathematics" merely that you should indicate that your
domain is discrete mathematics in your *operators* and not in your
*types* becaues Python is a language where the types of things are
"declared" miles away from where they are used. That has nothing to do
with newbies. It has to do with people trained in most modern school
systems to think of integers as a special case of rationals.

On the other hand, given that we have to choose operators for the two
different types of divisions it only makes sense to choose operators
that correspond with people's expectations (both newbies and those with
merely weak memories like me). If you walk out on the street and ask
hundred people for the value of 2/5*5 or 2?5*5, the number that will
respond "0" is vanishingly small.

So the current behaviour is wrong *semantically* because it frequently
causes people to write code that misbehaves silently in the face of
integers. And using "/" to mean remainder division is wrong
*syntactically* because it is confusing and causes people to write even
more buggy code. So there is a problem and Guido is fixing it.

You could also claim that Python's use of floats as an approximation for
rationals is confusing -- nobody would disagree. One day that will
hopefully be fixed also. But one issue at a time...
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 18 21:06:22 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:06:22 -0500
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org>
        <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
        <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <15231.4366.619155.836549@beluga.mojam.com>

    Alex> ... (*fast* moltiplication of long numbers being another).

Let's see, that would be when they shed their winter coats in the spring and
grow new antlers? ;-)

Skip



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 06:06:45 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:06:45 +0100
Subject: distributing python programs to non-geeks
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFB8@intrepid>

> From:	nivelnospamotri at yahoo.com [SMTP:nivelnospamotri at yahoo.com]
> I've got some python and ruby scripts that some people have expressed
> an interest in being able to run, but most get scared away by having
> to go to install python/ruby, set up a directory for the scripts, etc.
>  (All are using some flavor of Windows.)
> 
> What would be ideal would be a way of generating a Windows installer
> for a python/ruby script, complete with an icon that can go on the
> desktop or in the start menu.  You would download the installer, run
> it, then double-click on the icon it generates, and it would run just
> like any other executable.  Obviously the installer would have to
> install python/ruby if it isn't there, and the icon would really fire
> up python/ruby with the arguments pointing to the script, etc., but
> all of this could be transparent to the user, so that it looks like
> any other installer and executable.
 
I don't know about the Ruby side, but on the Python side, a combination of
py2exe (<http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/>) and Inno Setup
(<http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.htm>) does the job for me.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 16:03:01 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 13:03:01 -0700
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
References: <mailman.997917625.3557.python-list@python.org> <i4hgl9.ok1.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7x1ym76cne.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

gradha at iname.com writes:
> Doing this is silly, stupid, a security breach, <put here expelletive>, etc.
> Don't you see a password on a commandline can be seen by other tools of
> the same operative system? On Unix is as easy as running "ps aux". Under
> Windows I had once used similar tools to watch processes and their system
> information.

If there's no other users on the system at the time when the program
starts running, but users can log on later, then putting the password
on the command line at program startup might be reasonable.  Starting
up a server at system boot time could be an example.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 16:31:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:31:28 +0200
Subject: Typo in Python Tutorial?
References: <79179cf5.0108141146.1ce6e2ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lc1so01s8r@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Rupert Scammell" <rupe at metro.yak.net> wrote in message
news:79179cf5.0108141146.1ce6e2ee at posting.google.com...
> In the Python Tutorial
> (http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html), Section 5.1, I
> noticed that the pop() method for lists is documented as:
>
> pop([i])

The brackets [] in the Python documentation are used as
meta-symbols meaning "this argument is optional".  Yes,
I agree: it CAN be quite confusing -- but it's traditional
in computer-science (I think it goes back to Backus).


Alex





From cmpilato at typhoon.xnet.com  Mon Aug 27 14:56:30 2001
From: cmpilato at typhoon.xnet.com (C. Michael Pilato)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:56:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python version dilemma
Message-ID: <9me54u$4a3$1@flood.xnet.com>

I would be shocked if this is the first time the following question
has been posted to this list, but I'm willing to risk asking it again
anyway.

I have a set of scripts that use 2.1 syntax.  Now, I'd really like
these scripts to, when run by the 1.5 interpreter, gracefully state
that version 2 is required.  However, my code fails during the
compilation stage with the 1.5 interpreter (SyntaxError's and such),
and so never gets the chanced to execute a code portion that might
print a pretty (or at least useful) error message.

Is there *any way* to do what I'm trying to do.  A few hours of Google
searching and book reading has turned up nothing thus far.

Please send responses to cmpilato at collab.net.



From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 26 18:27:54 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:27:54 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1104489.MPnJmAY2XU@lunix.schabi.de>

gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk <gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> schrub:

>> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
>> v[5 # 2]
>> Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to
>> v[5:5+2]
> 
> I don't think # is right, because it's already used for comments.  But
> perhaps :][: would do the trick.  So it'd be v[5 :][: 2].  It's more
> complex, but looks nice.  And doesn't introduce any new punctuation
> into
> the language.  Shall I start on the PEP?

PEP?

As far as I see it, this already works using python 1.5.2:

>>> list = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0]
>>> list[5:]
[6, 7, 8, 9, 0]
>>> list[5:][:2]
[6, 7]

markus

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Aug 22 20:42:18 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:42:18 +1000
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EF7@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> While on this subject, would it be an idea to make built-in types
> callable, so that you just call an object without caring whether it
> was a function/method or a simple type? Thus:
> 
> x = 10
> 
> def y():
>     return 10
> 
> x()
> y()

But surely then you would code this as

x = 10()

def y():
	return 10()

print x()
print y()()()()()()

;)

Seriously, this is a bad idea for the reason given on the last line of code
... what happens when y() changes to return something else which is callable
- you get no indication of a semantic error. Or more likely the other way -
you currently have y() returning something which is callable, but that
changes to return something which currently is not callable (the API
therefore changes). With the current system that will be caught - if
everything were callable, it would not.

A fequent mistake is passing the result of calling a function instead of
passing the reference to the function instead. Making everything callable
would no longer flag this as an error, or would flag it is the wrong type of
error (insufficient parameters passed for example, instead of "not a
callable object").

Tim Delaney



From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug  6 02:43:23 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:43:23 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [OT] ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action
 t aken. (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108061038210.15124-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Hello!

I am sorry for offtopic, but what does it mean??? What is "sensitive
content"? "Bad words" (I do not remeber using them or have AI became
one of them lately?) or viruses?

Roman.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:26:48 +0100
From: Virusscan <PDC-DSPACE-SA at dspace.de>
To: 'Roman Suzi' <rnd at onego.ru>
Subject: ScanMail Message: To Sender,
     sensitive content found and action t aken.

Trend SMEX Content Filter has detected sensitive content.

Place = \Python Mailingliste
Sender = Roman Suzi
Subject = Re: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
Delivery Time = August 05, 2001 (Sunday) 22:26:47
Policy = dspace
Action on this mail = Quarantine message

Warning message from administrator:
Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail.




From mark21rowe at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 04:21:21 2001
From: mark21rowe at yahoo.com (Mark Rowe)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:21:21 +1200
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com> <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com> <e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b724230@news.actrix.gen.nz>

Hello,

If what you are interested in doing is checking your Yahoo mail, I suggest
that you look at poplib module.  If you are interested in using storing and
using cookies in general, this will not apply :)

Mark
"Lad" <printers at sendme.cz> wrote in message
news:e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8 at posting.google.com...
> Hi Doug,
> Thank you for your email.
> What I need is to automate posting to web sites such as mail.yahoo.com
> (to check email AUTOMATICALY)  that use cookies to sign-in. In Perl I
> can do it very easily. Is it possible to do it in Python as well?
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> >
> > > Does UrlLib (any other)module support cookies? An example is
> >
> > > mail.yahoo.com where I must first sign-in and then cookies are return
> >
> > > for this session and only then I can read my mails.
> >
> > > Thanks for help.
> >
> > > Ladislav
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cookies are just HTTP headers, urllib and httplib don't get involved at
> >
> > that level. There's a 'Cookie' module in the Python library. It's for
> >
> > server-side cookie handling, which I don't think you're interested in.
> >
> > However, it's worth reading. I've attached the code we use for cookies
at
> >
> > www.stressmy.com.




From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 15:54:03 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:54:03 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net>
Message-ID: <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Jiba <a11w at SoftHome.net> writes:

> I've just read http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html :
> 
> > There's one very specific (and fortunately uncommon) bug that used
> > to go undetected, but which is now reported as an error:
> 
> class A:
> 	def foo(self): pass
> 
> class B(A): pass
> 
> class C(A):
> 	def foo(self):
> 		B.foo(self)
> 
> What about using wrappers ? Say, i've an instance o of class O. I can
> call :
> 
> O.method(o)
> 
> but what occurs if o is a wrapper to oo, an instance of O (Like a
> Bastion-wrapper) ?

That never worked, and still won't work.  I don't see that as a loss.

> Obviously, if o is a wrapper, we can call o.method(), but...

But what?

> By the way, it's interesting to notice that, for wrapper, o.method() is
> not the same think than O.method(o)...

In what sense?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From tim at worthy.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 17:06:37 2001
From: tim at worthy.demon.co.uk (Tim Howarth)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:06:37 +0100
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> 
 <slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <54cc2dad4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>

In message <slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan at g.local>
          Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan) wrote:

> Tim Howarth wrote:

> > How big/difficult would it be to port Tk using the toolbox modules ?
> 
> The value of the time it would take to do it would probably
> exceed the cost of a new machine running Windows or *nix.

That's what I thought might be the answer (it's beyond my
knowledge/ability).

> How important is it that the thing should run on your Risc PC?

Not very, I've used Python to do lots of file mangling scripty kind of
stuff which I run on either RISC OS or Windows but I much prefer to
write with StrongED/work in the RISC OS environment.

What I would occasionally like though, is the ability for a user to
(say) choose an input file or output file via a GUI interface - one
which would work on Windows or RISC OS.

I suppose I could knock up my own simple system which would load
relevant modules dependent on host OS.

(Unfortunately I haven't got round to either SWI acces to Acorn wimp or
Tk/WxWindows partly cos of cross platform-ness.)


-- 
___
 |im    ---- ARM Powered ----


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 05:37:39 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:37:39 +0200
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
References: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9md4d401l6k@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> Whilst trying to recompile an extension with freeBSD 4.2 + Python-2.1.1
> I'm getting the following error.
>
> /usr/local/include/python2.1/unicodeobject.h:91: wchar.h: No such file
> or directory
>
> This extension compiled OK with Python-2.1. So must I upgrade my OS or
> is this a buglet of some kind?

I think the ISO standard for the C language mandates the
existence (includability, actually) of wchar.h, and Python
now requires a standard-compliant C compiler, so it doesn't
seem like a buglet to me that the installation isn't
checking for wchar.h's existence.  If your C compiler for
FreeBSD doesn't have a wchar.h in a standard include
directory, and you can upgrade to one that does, this
might indeed help.


Alex





From bk at xk7.com  Wed Aug 29 09:19:01 2001
From: bk at xk7.com (Burkhard Kloss)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:19:01 +0100
Subject: equiv from python
References: <mailman.999035742.5433.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <999091141.904097@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>

> > >>> import string
> > >>> s='ab:cd:efg:ghi:'
> > >>> print string.splitfields(s,':')
> > ['ab', 'cd', 'efg', 'ghi', '']
> >
> > IE, can the standard c++ library take a string, split it up on a
> > particular separator character, and return the corresponding list of
> > strings?
Boost (http:/www.boost.org) has, among lots of other useful libraries, a
tokenizer.  Boost is nice for this kind of stuff becausse
* the code is good
* it integrates well with the standard library
* it has a good chance of making it into the standard next time.

HTH,

    Burkhard




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 18:45:44 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:45:44 +0100
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <gX3ZihAn4Tj7Ew4c@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.999114345.9795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Qj4VfKAYCXj7Ew9b@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.999114345.9795.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio
Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes
..
..
>y with.
>>
>> now that is really baaad :)
>
>In what way? It will require more memory and startup will take a little
>longer, but those are the costs.
>
just like the Tcl solution
-- 
Robin Becker


From guido at python.org  Thu Aug  2 08:38:20 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:38:20 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996732543.23217.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpitg6y6we.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer) writes:

> BTW, you wrote that in 2.2 classes will behave like God <wink>
> meant them to behave and that they will be totally unified with types
> in a later release. Would that be 2.3? And how would classes change --
> besides using the shiny new lookup rule?

I'm not done thinking about that.  If you have suggestions, mail me.
This is PEP 254 material, and that's an empty PEP if there ever was
one. :-)

> > > Do you have a name for the new lookup rule?
> > =
> 
> > Not yet.  Does it need one?
> 
> I think so. It's hard talking about (and teaching) it otherwise. And
> `new lookup rule` will age quickly.

Hm.  I really can't come up with anything.

> Did you invent this rule for yourself or did you steal it from another
> language?

Stole it, but not from a specific language.  It's from the book:

    [1] "Putting Metaclasses to Work", by Ira R. Forman and Scott
        H. Danforth, Addison-Wesley 1999.
        (http://www.aw.com/product/0,2627,0201433052,00.html)

They don't have a name for it either.

I *think* it's the same rule that C++ uses, but C++ has additional
rules about conflict that make it feel different.

Hey, I just came up with something.  The motivation in [1] is to
enable cooperation between classes.  How about calling it the
"cooperative method resolution order" (CMRO for short).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From fedeb at evo.it  Fri Aug 24 06:05:11 2001
From: fedeb at evo.it (Federico Barbazza)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 03:05:11 -0700
Subject: send escape char with telnet
Message-ID: <6b7fde59.0108240205.10a4fd56@posting.google.com>

hi all,
i want to send an escape char ( simulate an esc key press) to my
client via telnet.
If i use write("\e") i just send the char "\e", so my client browse it
as a normal char.
Any idea??
thanks in advance,
Federico.


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 13 07:31:36 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:31:36 -0700
Subject: confused about adding elements to a list with list.append(otherlist)
References: <8e84aae6.0108130241.2163205c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l8e2h$84qkl$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Two things:  You probably want list.append(data[:])  - this makes a copy of
data when appending to list; and you probably shouldn't use list as an
identifier as it's also a keyword that converts to a list (try:
list("123")).

HTH,
--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Tist Verdonck" <tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:8e84aae6.0108130241.2163205c at posting.google.com...
> I got this problem where I have an empty list and I want to fill it up
> with other lists using a for-iteration:
>
> list = []
> data = ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh']
> z = len(data)
> for x in range(z):
>     list.append(data)
>     data.append('IJ')
>
> my goal was to get the follwing value for list:
> [['ab','cd','de','ef','gh'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ']]
>
> what I got is this:
> [['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
> ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ']]
>
> I think it must have something to do with me having problems with
> python's use of variables (not copying them but making references to them)
>
> could somebody please help me out?
>
> Thanks,
> Tist Verdonck
> tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Fri Aug 10 10:28:10 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:28:10 GMT
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:28:16 +0100, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>I saw earlier that someone had a sendkeys in python using wsh scripting
>(via win32com). I would like to do screen capture, but there seems to be
>an explicit ban on {PRTSC}.
>
>Has anyone managed to use PIL and win32com to do screen captures?

Well, I don't know how to do the Windows stuff from PIL or win32com,
but there's presumably easy ways to do it. If you want a hint what
Windows stuff to try to do: (i) You create a bitmap (presumably
this is easy in PIL, whether you can use that might depend
on whether PIL gives you access to a device context for the
bitmap). (ii) You get a device context for the screen from
GetDC(0) (iii) You BitBLT from the screen device context
to the bitmap's device context. (If this can't be done easily
using PIL and win32com it can certainly be done using
whatever.py, that Win32 API module.)

>Also the sendkeys command and control is un-robust. Is there a native
>win32com way to do this and perhaps wait on the windows/events I
>initiate before doing the capture?
>
>
>import win32api
>import win32com.client
>
>def sendkeys(k,app,delay=100):
>        '''
>        Note You can't use SendKeys to send keystrokes to an application that is not designed to run in Microsoft Windows.
>        Sendkeys also can't send the PRINT SCREEN key {PRTSC} to any application. 
>        '''
>        win32api.Sleep(delay)
>        return app.SendKeys(k)
>
>if __name__=='__main__':
>        import sys
>        shell = win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
>        shell.Run("Acrobat")
>        sk = lambda k, app=shell,delay=100: sendkeys(k,app,delay=delay)
>        win32api.Sleep(500)
>        shell.AppActivate("Adobe Acrobat")
>        win32api.Sleep(500)
>
>        sk('%fo',delay=500)
>        sk(sys.argv[1]+'{ENTER}',delay=500)
>        sk('%{PRTSC}',delay=1000)
>
>-- 
>Robin Becker


David C. Ullrich


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 30 10:57:45 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:57:45 GMT
Subject: Thanks Python
References: <a74b343d.0108300324.58424f4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Jvsj7.514509$lq1.105518988@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

And always be good to your Python.  It will be good to you.
Maan

"Du Wellsun" <ws at dohao.org> wrote in message
news:a74b343d.0108300324.58424f4 at posting.google.com...
> Python is very nice! I like it.




From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  2 23:16:23 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 23:16:23 -0400
Subject: Question about nested lists!
References: <f37349a7.0108021859.4f620ec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <etdofpx3kag.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

The problem is that floor contains ten references to the same list, and
the command 'floor[5][5] = 1' sets the fifth element of this list to 1.
Then when you go to print out the elements in floor, you print out ten
copies of said list.

Really, you want to be making these sorts of multidimensional arrays
with Numerical Python.  Check it out at numpy.sourceforge.net

HTH
Alex.


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 07:35:40 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:35:40 +0200
Subject: [Python-Help] data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <997178610.17738.39.camel@lewis> <mailman.997195514.28078.python-list@python.org> <3B710C31.B7FADB0D@divalsim.it>
Message-ID: <9kr86b028ip@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Nicola Musatti" <objectway at divalsim.it> wrote in message
news:3B710C31.B7FADB0D at divalsim.it...
>
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> [...]
> > It's a little bit more work when you want to
> > pre-specify some of the arguments to be passed to the callable you
> > want (technically called 'currying', in honor of the great mathematician
> > Haskell Curry [...] )
>
> Whom, I guess, also unwittingly provided a name for a programming
> language.

Good guess.  It's just one more way in which he's been honored.

> Ahem, I realize it's somewhat OT, but could you explain the
> relation/difference between currying and closures?

Currying, at heart, is a way to look at functions: there is
no need to think of a function 'accepting multiple arguments'
as long as you're comfortable with higher-order functions
(functions returning functions).  Say you have a function f
which you may think of as taking two arguments a and b and
returning a 'something' we can call c: well, you can instead
see f as a function taking a SINGLE argument (a) and returning
a function (say g) which in turn takes argument b and returns c.
This is indeed (over-simplifying) from Curry's work, I believe.
So, the 'currying' we do (e.g. in Haskell:-) is just making
this explicit -- the function call syntax is
    f a b
which you may parenthesize as
    (f a) b
where (f a) is a function (the one we called g).

'Closure' is a rather overloaded term -- the standard math
definition for "closure of set S under function F" being
(something like) "the intersection of all supersets of S
that are closed under F" (where a set X is 'closed under F'
iff, for all i in X, F(i) is in X) -- basically, you can
think of a closure of a set S under a function F as: set
S; union with F(i) for all i in S; union with F(F(i)) for
all i in S; ... stopping when no more new items are added
to the set being constructed in one 'F(F(F...(i))) for all
i in S' step -- if you're more comfortable with such
informal but constructive style.  But I think this has
little to do with the normal Lisp definition, where a
closure can be thought of as a pair (function,
environment) -- an environment being a set of bindings
of names to values -- so no 'free' variables remain,
only formal-parameters to the function and 'bound'
variables.

If you take a step back from these issues and look at
it with slightly-fuzzy eyes -- in both cases we can
think of starting with a function which has some
not-yet-bound variables (formal arguments in one
case, free variables in the other) and returning
another function which has fewer n-y-b variables
(fewer formal arguments [1, by rigorous definition]
for currying, fewer free variables [0, by rigorous
definition] for closures).  So at an implementation
and usage level the two concepts aren't all THAT
far apart -- if we have a mechanism that binds some
of a function's "dangling" (not yet bound) names
(aka variables), we can use it to implement both
currying and closures, and not just in the rigorous
senses of the term but a more general one (letting
us keep some number of formal arguments that is
not necessarily exactly 1, or some number of unbound
variables that is not necessarily exactly 0).


Alex





From manushand at home.com  Fri Aug 31 04:51:37 2001
From: manushand at home.com (Manus Hand)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:51:37 GMT
Subject: Is 0 > None??
References: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8F4F9B.3BEE4090@home.com>

Oops.  Typo in the bottom couple lines of my post.  The correction
and clarification is:

Version 2.0 has None > sys.maxint (and I liked it that way)
Version 2.1.1 has None < sys.minint (and I wish it weren't)

Version 2.1.1 seems to be a reversion to 1.5.1 and earlier in this
respect.  I am a fan of the 1.5.2-to-2.0 way.

Thanks,
Manus




From m-turk at nwu.edu  Wed Aug 22 15:03:38 2001
From: m-turk at nwu.edu (Matthew Turk)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 19:03:38 GMT
Subject: Interesting Segfault...  Or not?
Message-ID: <slrn9o80md.if.m-turk@dhcp101054.res-hall.nwu.edu>

Hi everybody.  Yeah, it's me posting again.

Anyway - I followed the instructions for debugging, which didn't work
precisely, but I ended up debugging on Linux anyway, since my boss
changed his mind about the backend.

Now, the point of all this is, I'm still getting segfaults, and I
wonder if there's another method I couldn't figure out to implement.

Here's a stack trace:

gdb python
import test

*Output*
Ctrl-d

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[Switching to Thread 1024 (LWP 3226)]
__strtol_internal (nptr=0x80b6420 "", endptr=0x4018df00, base=0,
group=134723870) at eval.c:36
36	eval.c: No such file or directory.
	in eval.c
(gdb) bt
#0  __strtol_internal (nptr=0x80b6420 "", endptr=0x4018df00, base=0,
group=134723870) at eval.c:36
#1  0x08075725 in PyFunction_SetDefaults () at eval.c:41
#2  0x0807b977 in PyDict_Next () at eval.c:41
#3  0x0806dc22 in PyClass_New () at eval.c:41
#4  0x080806bd in PyTuple_SetItem () at eval.c:41
#5  0x0806dc09 in PyClass_New () at eval.c:41
#6  0x080806bd in PyTuple_SetItem () at eval.c:41
#7  0x0806dc09 in PyClass_New () at eval.c:41
#8  0x080806bd in PyTuple_SetItem () at eval.c:41
#9  0x0806dc09 in PyClass_New () at eval.c:41
#10 0x080844db in PyTuple_Fini () at eval.c:41
#11 0x08064469 in Py_Finalize () at eval.c:41
#12 0x0805033d in Py_Main () at eval.c:41
#13 0x0804fc73 in main () at eval.c:41
#14 0x40081177 in __libc_start_main (main=0x804fc54 <main>, argc=1,
ubp_av=0xbffffaac, init=0x804f1ec <_init>, fini=0x8096a1c <_fini>, 
    rtld_fini=0x4000e184 <_dl_fini>, stack_end=0xbffffa9c) at
../sysdeps/generic/libc-start.c:129

David Beazley's WAD corrected the problem - it didn't segfault after I
exited python once I had imported libwadpy.  I don't know what that
means.

Does this mean I'm not decrementing a reference I ought to?  Or am I
not increasing it appropriately?  What could this be the result of - I
assume it comes from garbage collection, but that could be *totally*
off.

Thanks - if anybody has any ideas, that is!




mjt
--------------------------------------------------
Matthew J. Turk <m-turk at nwu.edu>      ICQ: 3856787
"Music is the Best." - FZ       www.dailyvault.com


From Fumari at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 23 04:41:31 2001
From: Fumari at yahoo.com (Fumari)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:41:31 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question About Python
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com> <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <9ll45901ib6@enews2.newsguy.com> <pg7sntks9t21gugt1beiladbnf7gv73epn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B84C21B.5080@yahoo.com>

Ive been starting to learn Python by looking over some tuts linked from
the offical site.  Now it seems to me Python is like perl as in the
system must have perl installed in order to run the program? is this
correct, in python you right out the code then command line it?  Is
there a way to make an exe file?


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 15:40:12 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:40:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <204023375.20010829213710@vega.bg>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291536170.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Niki Spahiev wrote:

> 8/29/2001, 19:31:24, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>
> IVA> [...]
> IVA> SO...
>
> IVA> I propose that we make the following changes to how Windows C extensions are
> IVA> built:
>
> IVA> 1) make some sort of 'thunking.h' or whatnot that contains global function
> IVA>      pointers for 'PyMem_Malloc', 'PyMem_Free', etc., and
> IVA> 2) make a pythonDLLX.Y.lib that contains a DllMain() that thunks the functions
> IVA>      from the application (which has previously linked python.X.Y.lib) and
> IVA>      sets the global variables in thunking.h.
>
> IVA> That way the behaviour of the Windows C extensions matches that of the Unix C
> IVA> extensions and pythonXY.dll can be done away with.
>
> Bigest problem IMO are PyXXX_Check() macro and PyXXX_Type data objects.

No, because the macros don't really exist, and the types could be linked in
with pythonDLLX.Y.lib.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug  8 08:49:11 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:49:11 +0200
Subject: Zope config file (was:python paths)
References: <0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm@jessikat.demon.co.uk><9kotiu$265g$1@norfair.nerim.net> <Al0xeVAVVBc7EwHr@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <9kp6hi$2b34$1@norfair.nerim.net> <J3Zb7.46108$g_3.6698450@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9krc63$dks$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Agree at 200%...

In addition, the docs for these individual environment vars seems to be in
lots of various unrelated parts of the docs.
But lots of 3rd party products use these environment vars... Deep changes !

--Gillou

> a config file would be very nice, I dont like all the
ENVIRONMENT_VARIABLES_
> ZOPE is starting to use.  granted the average person need not know about
> them, it would be nice to have a config file that centralized all of this.
> I dont really know of a good place where any/all are defined at the
moment.
>
> ~runyaga
>
>
>




From michal.cernoevic at pvt.cz  Tue Aug 28 10:08:20 2001
From: michal.cernoevic at pvt.cz (michal èernoeviè)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:08:20 +0200
Subject: comparing results of fetchall() with a known value
References: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mg8jr$7mu$1@news.nextra.cz>

Hi,
how about this:

simple_list = map((lambda x: x[0]), list_of_tuples)

Michal

Jeff <jhardcastle at solarc.com> p?se v diskusn?m
p??sp?vku:e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1 at posting.google.com...
> Hi - I'm new to Python, and am having trouble reading the results of a
> database call using fetchall().  Here's my situation:
>
> I have a database table containing a list of names, and I have a
> string variable containing a name.  I need logic that will determine
> if my string exists in the database table.  So I have a simple sql
> like "select name from employees", and I have a string empname =
> 'Jones', and I need to verify that 'Jones' is in the employees list
> (assume duplicate names are not an issue in this case).
>
> Here's what I've done: I created an odbc connect to the database,
> opened a cursor, executed the sql, then set a variable: namelist =
> cursor.fetchall().  What's got me stumped is that "namelist" is a list
> of tuples with sample data like: [('smith',), ('johnson',),
> ('jackson',), ('jones',)]
>
> If this were a normal tuple or list, I could easily use:
>
> "if empname in namelist:
>      ....execute code...."
>
> But with the list of tuples, I don't know how to easily do this. My
> hunch is that there must be some way to convert that list of tuples
> into a list of single values, since I only need the first element of
> the tuple like 'jackson' from ('jackson',).  Once I had the list of
> single values, my if statement above would work.
>
> Thanks for your help!
> Jeff




From jpet at eskimo.com  Sun Aug 26 18:00:09 2001
From: jpet at eskimo.com (Jeff Petkau)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:00:09 GMT
Subject: Inverse regex?
References: <tkcud8arriomfa@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Ijei7.1225$BH1.851472@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

Andrew Henshaw <ahenshaw at apower dot com> wrote in message
news:tkcud8arriomfa at corp.supernews.com...
> Has anybody seen or developed what might be called an inverse regex
> generator.  We would like to do some unit testing of modules that have
user
> input validated by regular expressions.  It would be nice to throw some
some
> strings at them and see if the propagated input causes an error in the
code
> downstream.  In other words, it may help to detect if our validation
> routines are insufficient.
>
> I understand that, in many cases, a complete list of valid strings is
> impossible.  However, for certain regular expressions it would be
certainly
> reasonable.  For others, it will be possible, but practically impossible
> (set too large).  For the impossible, and near impossible, it would be
nice
> to generate a bounded set that hits many of the degenerate and extreme
> cases.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Andrew Henshaw

Here's some code that generates random strings from regexes. It's not
quite what you were after and it's very incomplete, but it might help
and it's fun to play with.
---
"""
inverse regex:
    given a regular expression string, produces random strings that
    match the expression.

    usage:
        import reinv
        print reinv.random_from_pattern("[a-z]*")
        --> gxbf

        print reinv.random_from_pattern("(cat |dog )+")
        --> cat cat dog cat

        print reinv.random_from_pattern("(cat |dog )+")
        --> dog dog

some of the many cases that this code doesn't handle well:
    (foo|x*)(^blah|stuff)

        matches blah, foostuff, xstuff, xxstuff, xxxstuff, ...

        one of the second group's cases is made impossible by what the
        first group matched.  We need to backtrack to generate correct
        results.

    ((cat|dog)\2)*

        I don't know what the semantics of this case are supposed to be;
        playing with sre.match() didn't help much.

    case insensitivity, regular expression flags, etc.

As a cheap hack to deal with being so crippled, we make repeated attempts
to generate random strings, check them with re.match(), and return the
first one that matches. This means that we'll never return an invalid
string, although we may not return all valid strings and we may be unable
to generate any strings for some legitimate expressions.
"""

import random,string
from sre_constants import *
import sre_parse,sre

STAR_REPEAT_CHANCE = .7
MAX_RE_ATTEMPTS = 10


class FailedToGenerate:
    pass


def nots(s):
    r = [chr(i) for i in range(256) if chr(i) not in s]
    return ''.join(r)


allchars = nots('')


category_chars = {
    CATEGORY_SPACE: string.whitespace,
    CATEGORY_NOT_SPACE: nots(string.whitespace),
    CATEGORY_DIGIT: string.digits,
    CATEGORY_NOT_DIGIT: nots(string.digits),
    CATEGORY_WORD: string.digits + string.letters + '_',
    CATEGORY_NOT_WORD: nots(string.digits + string.letters + '_'),
    CATEGORY_LINEBREAK: '\n\r',
    CATEGORY_NOT_LINEBREAK: nots('\n\r'),
}


def cons_lookup(index, groups):
    """cons_lookup(int, cons_list) -> string
    cons_list is either None, or a tuple of the form (int, string,
cons_list).
    This is a handy way to keep track of group bindings we've made.
    """
    while groups is not None:
        i, v, groups = groups
        if i==index:
            return v
    raise FailedToGenerate()


def random_from_sub(tok,val,groups):
    """given a token and associated value (as produced by sre_parse),
    and a cons-list of group bindings, returns a string that matches
    the subpattern defined by the token/value/groups, and a new
    cons-list of group bindings.
    """

    if tok is LITERAL:
        return chr(val), groups

    if tok is ANY:
        return random.choice(allchars), groups

    if tok is AT:
        # ignore AT tokens
        return '', groups

    if tok is IN:
        t,v = random.choice(val)
        return random_from_sub(t, v, groups)

    if tok is RANGE:
        lo, hi = val
        return chr(random.randint(lo,hi)), groups

    if tok is BRANCH:
        assert val[0] is None
        return random_from_seq(random.choice(val[1]), groups)

    if tok is MAX_REPEAT:
        lo, hi, seq = val
        r = []
        for i in range(hi):
            if i>=lo and random.random()>STAR_REPEAT_CHANCE: break
            s,groups = random_from_seq(seq,groups)
            r.append(s)

        return ''.join(r), groups

    if tok is SUBPATTERN:
        index, seq = val
        r, g = random_from_seq(seq, groups)
        return r, (index, r, g)

    if tok is GROUPREF:
        return cons_lookup(val,groups), groups

    if tok is CATEGORY:
        return random.choice(category_chars[val]), groups

    raise FailedToGenerate()


def random_from_seq(seq,groups):
    oseq = []
    for tok,val in seq:
        s,groups = random_from_sub(tok,val,groups)
        oseq.append(s)
    return ''.join(oseq), groups


def random_from_pattern(pattern):
    seq = sre_parse.parse(pattern)

    # Make several tries at generation before giving up.
    # Failure can be indicated by a FailedToGenerate exception,
    # or just by returning a bogus string. (The latter check
    # allows us to be a little sloppy in some of the difficult
    # cases.)
    for i in range(MAX_RE_ATTEMPTS):
        try:
            r = random_from_seq(seq,None)[0]
            if sre.match(pattern, r):
                return r
        except FailedToGenerate:
            pass

    raise FailedToGenerate()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    def check(p):
        print '\nMatches for %s:' % p
        for i in range(5):
            try:
                r = random_from_pattern(p)
                assert sre.match(p,r)
            except FailedToGenerate:
                r = 'failed!'
            print '    ',r

    check('foo$foo')
    check('x')
    check('xy')
    check('x|y')
    check('x|y|z')
    check('[abc]')
    check('[a-z]')
    check('[A-Z]')
    check('cat|dog')
    check('cat|dog|mouse')
    check('c[aeiou]t|d[aeiou]g|mouse')
    check('x*')
    check('y+')
    check('(cat |dog )*')
    check('(cat |dog )(\\1)*')
    check('-?[0-9]+\.[0-9]{2}')
    check('-?\d+\.\d\d')
    check('.*foo.*')
    check('\w+( \w+)*')
    check('[A-Z][a-z]*( [a-z]+)*\\.')
    check('( [aeiouAEIOU]?([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxyz][aeiou]){1,4})+')
    check('(( [aeiouAEIOU]?([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvwxyz][aeiou]){1,4})\\2?)+')





From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Tue Aug 14 09:18:04 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:18:04 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <000901c124c3$8d67d760$a9e1fea9@carol>

Paul writes -

>VPython probably is irrelevant to PEP 238 at this stage, apart from
>being a project which will benefit directly from the changes brought
>about by being pulled into the mainstream. 

Its at the point where I need to argue to a small degree 
even with those being kind.

If I thought that the div change was in fact a net benefit - even as a
side effect - to the VPython *student* I would have left the thread
long ago.  

ART





From urner at alumni.princeton.edu  Sat Aug 25 00:36:29 2001
From: urner at alumni.princeton.edu (Kirby Urner)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:36:29 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 install glitch (Windows binary)
Message-ID: <8iaeot0r5td7qbh5t3bdnj5pkrhp48nph1@4ax.com>

I've just reinstalled 2.1.1. final and find that the 
file association string I'd manually fixed awhile ago 
was reset back to:

   D:\Program Files\Python21\python.exe "%1" %*

This is under Folder Options, where you scroll down
to the PY snake icon, click Advanced | Edit and see
the boot string associated with PY files.

What __should__ be the boot string is:

   "D:\Program Files\Python21\python.exe" %1 %1

This problem may be confined to those setups wherein
Python is installed in a path which includes spaces in the
pathname (as in "Program Files").

When the string is messed up, as shown initially, the 
files may still boot in Python, meaning this is a subtle
problem.  But you won't be able to get cgi to work if
you set up a web server, for example.  I run Savant
to test cgi scripts, and without the manual fix (second
string), it won't execute Python in cgi mode.

Kirby


From tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 11:43:39 2001
From: tdickenson at devmail.geminidataloggers.co.uk (Toby Dickenson)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:43:39 +0100
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <gtsfntcra2alkvfl68j45sj6jncul7kkek@4ax.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

>It would be relatively easy to allow __class__ assignment only if (a)
>the new class is a subclass of the old class, and (b) the size of the
>new instance is the same as the old instance.  Would this be sufficient?

class A(bases...):
    ....
 
class B(A):
    ....

class C(A):
    ....

Under this rule I could change class from A to B, and from A to C. Is
there an easy rule that allows changing from B to C too? Perhaps, only
if the object was originally created as an A?

(I think this would satisfy Alex's UI-Engine example)

Toby Dickenson
tdickenson at geminidataloggers.com


From kwg at renre-europe.com  Tue Aug  7 06:03:26 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 11:03:26 +0100
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
Message-ID: <997178610.17738.39.camel@lewis>

hi,
I'm trying to put together a python + tkinter app with data entry
validation.
What I have in mind is that the colour of the text changes depending
on what the user has typed. (In otherwords the text is displayed in
red if it is invalid, and in black if it is ok).
I'd like to use regex (or the more up-to-date re strings) to specify
what type of text is valid (cf my last query to the help mailing list).

At the moment, basic code that I have gotten to work looks like:

self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd='string is int %P',
invcmd='bell')

attempts at specifying python procedures for vcmd and invcmd only seem
to be called when the app in initialising and don't exactly work.
For example, with

self.__entry = Entry(newframe, validate='key', vcmd=self.validate('%P'),
invcmd=self.invalid())

the validate and invalid methods are called when the app starts up, but
neither of those methods are called when any keys are pressed, and I'm
really not sure that the second definition above is syntatically
correct, even though the parser didn't catch any problems.


What I'd like to know is if what I am looking to do is in anyway
possible, and if anybody has any pointers/ideas on how I could 
implement this functionality.
Am I left to using TCL expressions for data entry validation (and if so,
how do I do the above)


(I have done a number of searches on Google to see if anybody else
may have run into these questions before but couldn't find anything
of interest)

thanks,

Ken






From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 24 12:18:30 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:18:30 +0100
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
References: <3B86028A.9F5F9967@sgh.com.sg> <9m64ld$mpu$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9m66pf$ji4$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <9m6nfi$dc$2@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>

Donn Cave:
>So the generator stuff is just for fun, right?

Yep.  Martel, my mxTextTools based parser generator has much
faster and more powerful record readers than the generator
code I presented.  (For example, you can access the lookaheadbuffer.
This is useful in cases where several different record styles
are used in the same file, as with a header followed by 1 or
more records followed by a footer.)

One thing I'm looking forward to in 2.2 is using __iter__ rather
than using __getitem__ like this

   def __getitem__(self, i):
       assert i == self._n, "forward iteration only"
       ...
       self._n = self._n + 1


>I mean, this
>can just as easily be expressed as a conventional buffer
>object, minus the for loop application but I believe possibly
>allowing a little more flexibility in other respects.

Agreed.  It is more flexible.  But I do think the generator one
is easier to understand ... once you understand generators.  And
I'm not sure if generators are more or less complicated to
explain than classes.

>mxTextTools rules.

Whole-heartedly agree.  For one of my test cases it's only 50%
slower than grep, and in more realistic cases it's faster and
better than hand written Python and Perl code.  It's about 4
times slower than hand-written Java code, but that's not a fair
comparison because mxTextTools is doing a *lot* more work than
the Java code.  Timings at
  http://www.dalkescientific.com/Martel/ebi-talk/img37.htm

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






From tavis at calrudd.com  Sun Aug  5 16:53:49 2001
From: tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 13:53:49 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108021001.4013ee64@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108021700.70b4ce67@posting.google.com> <f67cb2b7.0108031527.77c4af8@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108032114.c03a0a4@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108040201.73d542f0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f67cb2b7.0108051253.51b02857@posting.google.com>

Graham,
grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) wrote:
> For what it is worth, Velocity looks pretty well what I am after. A
> Python clone of it would be quite nice, although tweaks to make better
> use of some stuff in Python would make it better. I guess I will have
> to wait for updated documentation for Cheetah to get an understanding
> of it. I trolled a bit through the CVS version of the documentation but
> still can spot a least one thing which Velocity has which I see as useful.
> Ie., an equivalent of #stop. Is there such a thing in Cheetah? It should
> be simple to do as all it needs to potentially do is throw an exception
> which is caught at the top.

Cheetah has an extended version of #stop that we renamed #raw instead.
Velocity doesn't seem to allow you to #restart after #stop.  Cheetah
does, with "#end raw".

We've implemented equivalents of all Velocity's directives, while
simplifying the syntax a bit and adding alot on the 'framework' side
of things.

Velocity is older, has a larger user-base, and has better examples and
docs at the moment. Cheetah, however, has a number of advantages over
Velocity:
=================================================
* it's written in Python. Thus, it's easier to use and extend.
-------------------------------------------------
* the syntax is cleaner, more flexible and is closer to Python's

Example:
"""
#for $i in range(15)
$i
#end for 
"""
instead of 
"""
#foreach($i in range(15))  
$i
#end
"""
which means the following example is possible Cheetah, but not
Velocity:
"""
#for $key, $val in $myDict
$key, $val
#end for 
"""

-------------------------------------------------
* it has a powerful caching mechanism.  Velocity has no equivalent.

This will be statically cached after the first request:
"""#cache 
$var $var2 $var3
#end cache"""

and this will be refresed every 15 min:
"""#cache 15
$var $var2 $var3
#end cache"""

Or you can use the shorthand syntax on individual $placeholders.  $var
will be re-interpolated for each request, $*var will be statically
cached after the first request,  $*15*var will be re-interpolated
every 15 min, $*0.5*var will be re-interpolated every half minute

-------------------------------------------------
* it's far easier to add data/objects into the namespace where
$placeholder values are extracted from.  Velocity calls this namespace
a 'context'. Contexts are dictionaries/hashtables. You can put
anything you want into a context, BUT you have to use the .put()
method to populate the context as in this example:
"""
VelocityContext context1 = new VelocityContext();
context1.put("name","Velocity");
context1.put("project", "Jakarta");
context1.put("duplicate", "I am in context1");
"""
Cheetah takes a different approach. Rather than require you to
manually populate the 'namespace' like Velocity, Cheetah will accept
any existing Python object or dictionary AS the 'namespace'.
Furthermore, Cheetah allows you to specify a list namespaces that will
be searched in sequence to find a varname-to-value mapping.  This
searchList can be extended at run-time.

If you add 'foo' object to the searchList and the 'foo' has an
attribute called 'bar' you can simply type $bar in the template rather
than $foo.bar. If the second item in the searchList is this dictionary
{'spam':1234, 'parrot':666} then $spam's value will be found in the
dict rather than in the 'foo' object at the start of the searchList.

Cheetah also has an extended version of the #set directive: 
#data
<absolutely any valid Python code>
#end data
The string in the #data directive is exec'd in an empty namespace and
that namespace is then added to the searchList.
-------------------------------------------------
* it has a #block [blockName] ... #end block [blockName] directive
that allows you to delimit sections of your template that can be
reimplemented by sub-classes of the template.

Blocks can be redefined using the #redefine [blockName] ... #end
redefine [blockName] directive or simply by using the Template class'
redefineBlock() or killBlock() methods.

This feature has no equivalent in Velocity and is very useful for
selectively changing part of a template without having to
copy-paste-and-edit the entire thing.

#block directives can be nested to any depth.
-------------------------------------------------
* it has better whitespace handling around #directive tags
-------------------------------------------------
* it uses 'unified dotted notation', whereby Cheetah lets you
subscript objects and dictionaries in the same way, using dotted
notation.  This is far easier for non-programmers to understand and it
insulates you from changes in the API behind the template's
$placeholders.

$a.b.c will work with "a = {'b':{'c':1234}}" or "a = myClass(); a.b =
anotherClass()"
You can still write $a['b']['c'] if you want to.
-------------------------------------------------
* it allows 'auto-calling' of methods and functions embedded as
$placeholders in the template definition.  If this feature is enabled
(the default) then $func and $obj.meth will translated to $func() and
$obj.meth().  If the function or method require args then you still
have to do it like in Python $func('foo', 1234)
-------------------------------------------------
* it has an extension to the #macro syntax that makes it easier to
call
macros that accept large strings as arguments.  For example a macro
that pretty-prints a chunk of source code.
-------------------------------------------------
* it integrates tightly with Webware.  Velocity doesn't integrate as
easily with Turbine.
-------------------------------------------------
* it has a plugin that enables PSP-style coding to be freely mixed in
with the Cheetah syntax.
-------------------------------------------------
* it is easy to add new #directives to Cheetah. You can't do this
easily in Velocity.
-------------------------------------------------
* the tokens that are used to signal the start of $placeholders and
#directives are
configurable. You can set them to any character sequences, not just $
and #.
-------------------------------------------------
* it has an extensive test suite (238 cases and counting)
-------------------------------------------------
===================================================

> At this point I guess the next question in regard to working out the best
> approach to all this, is whether one goes the direction of interpreting
> the page at the time of the request as I think Velocity might do, or to
> pregenerate Python classes to handle the request. 

Velocity builds a parse tree that it walks for each request.  Cheetah
translates into Python code and then lets Python generate the
byte-codes.  The idea is the same in both cases: the parsed code is
cached.  The advantage of the Cheetah was is that any valid Python
expression is valid inside $placeholder( ) argstrings and inside
directives such as #if [expression]. The same is not true of Velocity
and Java.  I'm not sure about the speed implications of these two
methods, but Cheetah is fast.
 
> Can you tell me what happens in the Cheetah/Webware case. If template files
> are changed, is the Python class automatically regenerated and reimported
> into the program? 

Yes, this happens automatically when it is used with Webware.  We're
also in the process of making it monitor file-updates when Cheetah is
used as a standalone tool.

The updated Cheetah docs should be live tonight.

I hope this info helps.
Cheers,
Tavis


From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Aug 13 14:42:15 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:42:15 -0700
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
Message-ID: <OFB268D6DA.706FEB9A-ON88256AA7.00669F74@i2.com>

I like it a lot!

Jim




                                                                                                                   
                    Guido van Rossum                                                                               
                    <guido at python.org>        To:     python-list at python.org                                       
                    Sent by:                  cc:                                                                  
                    python-list-admin@        Subject:     Re: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list            
                    python.org                                                                                     
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   
                    08/09/01 06:09 PM                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




> :"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:<mailman.997328534.2490.python-list at python.org>...
> :>
> :> The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but
the
> :> change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be a
bad
> :> incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this reason
I'm
> :> going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().
> :>
> :> although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim

> On 9 Aug 2001 08:58:32 -0700, paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote:
>
> :Absolutely not! I was initially surprised that dir(object) didn't give
> :the methods as well as the attributes, and disappointed that
> :dir(object.__class__) doesn't state the methods available on that
> :object.
> ....
> : Instead, that
> :is left up to the programmer, unless he/she decides upon using the new
> :introspection module(s).
> :
> :Perhaps there should be a well-known and widely published way of doing
> :this kind of thing, but dir is a well-known function. It's a shame
> :about dir([])...

xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) writes:

> I think so too.  Introspection seems to me to be a feature that should
> be easier, rather than harder, to get to.  dir() has done part of the
> that job, albeit inconsistently (funny, it didn't seem inconsistent
> after I got used to it).  I'd be sad to have less information
> available to dir().   I should warn that I'm coming at this mostly
> from the idea of teaching Python, which is something I do (less often
> than I'd like, sadly).

Hm.  How about making dir() incompatible in the other direction, and
letting it return a sorted list of *all* attributes (that one can
reasonably deduce)?
Like this:

def dir(x):
    if isinstance(x, type):
        d = {}
        classattrs(x, d)
    else:
        if hasattr(x, '__dict__'):
            d = x.__dict__.copy()
        else:
            d = {}
        classattrs(x.__class__, d)
    k = d.keys()
    k.sort()
    return k

def classattrs(c, d):
    d.update(c.__dict__)
    for b in c.__bases__:
        classattrs(b, d)

>>> print dir([])
['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', '__delitem__', '__eq__', '__ge__',
'__getattr__', '__getitem__', '__getslice__', '__gt__', '__iadd__', '
__imul__', '__init__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__', '__mul__', '__ne__',
'__new__', '__repr__', '__rmul__', '__setitem__', '__setslice__', 'append',
'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort']
>>>

Note that print dir(list) would print the same.  Just an idea...

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 05:04:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:04:30 +0200
Subject: Installing .TGZ File I Got From Python.org....
References: <d0a9c74e.0108102115.47fa503d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l2ugc0egu@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Josh" <polopunk209 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0a9c74e.0108102115.47fa503d at posting.google.com...
> I need help installing the .TGZ file that's distributed at Python.org.
> I have the base .EXE running, but I'm stumped for answers concerning
> what to do with this file. I have WinZip 8.0, and my OS is Win98 SE.

The .TGZ file (a compacted form of .tar.gz: .tar is a traditional kind
of Unix archive, .gz refers to the gzip GNU compression utility) contains
the Python source distribution.  It's a good idea to unpack it and keep
it around, even if you don't intend to rebuild Python from sources,
because the C sources can be instructive anyway (if you can read C)
*and* (for reasons that totally escape me!) the pre-built distribution
omits an important and interesting directory called Demo which has
lots of Python-coded examples well worth studying.

In other words: you don't need the source-distribution around in
order to run Python, but I suggest you do keep it around for study
purposes, even if you don't know C and don't care to learn it.

The popular WinZip commercial program knows how to unpack .TGZ
files (I do wonder how, since this should imply it's a derived work of
GPL-covered gzip and therefore its sources should be available, but
I guess they've found some legal trick, or something).  A typical
Windows installation might use C:\Python21 as the main Python
directory, and C:\Python-2.1 for the source distribution, but of
course it's up to you (a general piece of advice is to avoid spaces
in directory names -- sure, sure, all tools are supposed to handle
them right, but then and again some problem keeps popping up:-).

> (I would be running Mandrake, but my parents are attached to Windows.
> The teenage years really are traumatic...)

Yep, but so are the adult ones -- I had to put Linux away and
go full-time Windows 5 years ago for professional reasons (as
Windows-guruhood was what I was being paid for, I really
needed full-immersion to absorb every bit of Windows lore).
But the times, they are a-changin', and now...

...now you CAN easily install Linux side by side with Windows,
by various means -- as long as your disk is large enough to hold
both, of course, but nowadays, with 40GB disks going for a
pittance, this typically isn't a problem.  If you're keen specifically
on Mandrake (and I well see why one would be, even though I'm
installing Redhat 7.1 myself on my new box at this time -- I had
to go fetch the Alsa drivers, build them, &c, since said box's audio
is AC97, but I hear Mandrake 8 comes with Alsa pre-installed...
just an example, but a significant one!), you may be in luck...

It seems Mandrake is developing a version that's optimized to be
installed next to Windows -- they variously refer to it as Lnx4Win
and Linux4Win.  It's still not completely packaged up and spiffied
up -- you have to place some files in the right places by hand, &c --
but you may think of that as providing even greater educational
value wrt the no-hassles click-and-go experience that's more
typical of installing Linux today:-).

A key issue is partitioning or otherwise: Lnx4Win builds a normal
Linux filesystem (ext2fs I believe) on what looks to Windows as
one BIG file on the Windows partition -- no repartitioning and
attendant hassles, but neither the performance and disk-space
waste hit of an umsdos installation.  All it takes is the disk space
to build the big file -- your parents can be running Windows SE
(or whatever) while you're booting back and forth between that
and Linux (well, not 'while' as in 'at the same instant of time' --
so you may want to use 'whereas' instead:-).

Me, I'm just waiting for Lnx4Win to mature a bit, then I'll give it a try
on my laptop -- I do have a spare gigabyte or so there.  On the
big box where I have now installed Redhat 7.1 (but I may yet
change my mind and go for Debian when woody's stable), I
think I'll try Win4Lin instead (if, as I assume, Wine proves too
immature yet to let me run Word97 -- I do need that! -- and
VC++6 -- ditto -- and try out Python programs).

Now all of the above may look like it's off-topic, but I don't
think it is.  Python is cross-platform, and unless one has to
stay within a single OS for some reason, there's typically an
educational advantage in operating in a cross-platform way,
with packages such as wxPython (or good old Tkinter)
giving you a chance to make extremely-portable Python apps.

So you may exploit the advantages of both platforms -- those
of Linux are obvious (no more blue screens!-), but one gains
an appreciation for those of Windows, too.  They're spelled
*COM* -- a family of technologies, infrastructure and 'social
norms' [a serious commercial Win application can't fail to
provide good COM support -- it would kill it in the market]
that in practice ensure you can use Python to script just about
ANYTHING under Windows with minimal hassles (on Linux,
there are some attempts such as bonobo and XPCOM, but
they're nowhere as pervasive as COM is on Windows).  Soon,
the advantages of Win might be spelled .NET Framework
(although I earnestly hope 'mono' and other .NET-cloning
attempts in the free software world keep Linux & friends
competitive on that score, I wouldn't bet my shirt on it) --
a sort of "COM is dead, long live COM" arrangement.  From
a technical, professional, cultural and Pythonic viewpoint,
keeping reasonably current on both Windows and Linux (or
other free-software alternatives) is really desirable -- let's
not kid ourselves, neither is going to kill the other any time
soon.  We live a cross-platform present AND future:-).


> Also, where do I unzip the Debug.zip file? Any help would be

That one, I would throw away, if I were you.  It's a collection
of debug-built versions of Python's components: you can use
it if you're developing Python extensions with Microsoft
Visual Studio and want to compile your extensions in debug
mode (specifically, the issue is using the runtime libraries
MSVCRTD.DLL &c vs the normal MSVCRT.DLL &c).  In practice,
when I develop extensions I compile them for debug EXCEPT
that I use the normal MSVCRT.DLL -- otherwise, I'd have to
keep MSVCRTD-using versions of EVERY Python extension I
need to coexist with... what a hassle!  Rather, I may build a
debug-except-MSVCRT version of everything relevant (and
specifically Python itself and its core accompanying .pyd's
and .dll's) from the source distribution (it's just a matter of
toggling one switch or two from Visual Studio).  I don't really
need to debug *the Microsoft C-Runtime libraries* specifically,
at least, not most of the time (I've had to do some such
debugging at work, and it's not exactly fun:-).

If you're not doing C development at this time, then you
definitely don't need anything in that file.

> appreciated, and I wouldn't be asking this question if the UseNet
> search had turned up anything helpful, so I apologize for polluting
> the board with lame questions.

There are no lame questions (well, there might be, but
yours weren't:-).  Maybe we need to work out a better
explanation of what each package it and whether one would
want it, what for, where to unpack it, &c.

> P.S. If you didn't gather this from my first post on the board, I'm a
> newbie.

Welcome, and many happy returns!


Alex

P.S., if you didn't gather this from this post, I'm an incurably
verbose chatterbox:-).





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 18 02:12:50 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 02:12:50 -0400
Subject: feature request: parameter functions
References: <mailman.998100988.1801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7E0762.98AE521B@engcorp.com>

"Steven D. Arnold" wrote:
> 
> A feature idea for Python.  
[...]
> Some example code:
> 
>     def foo(a, b, c=myfunc(c)): [...]
> 
>     def myfunc(param):
[...]
> All this is really no different than code like this:
> 
>     def foo(a, b, c=None):
>         c = myfunc(c)
> 
> ...but it's cleaner, especially for functions with many parameters.

Actually, no it's not.  That is to say, the definition of
"cleaner" is obviously a matter of personal choice here.  What
you've proposed looks *really* ugly to me, doesn't look at all
Pythonic (IMHO), and is not only less easy to read but is
probably less maintainable.  

At least with the second approach, one can write some clear
comments above or next to the call to myfunc() explaining
why one needs to massage the data this way.

The entire pattern you are proposing here is one I don't
know if I've ever had to use, and may never have seen before.
Maybe I'm just dense, but I've managed to program all this
time without ever writing "parameter massaging functions"
like this.  What have I been doing wrong? (Rhetorical question :-)

Not to mention that the second approach doesn't require still
more syntactically sugary changes to Python, which is 
_just_fine_as_it_is_!

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug 16 14:54:40 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:54:40 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images
 in email sent with python.
In-Reply-To: <slrn9nnrkv.47f.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108162253080.7333-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, phil hunt wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:12:35 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw <barry at zope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> "S" == Stephen  <shriek at gmx.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>    S> I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and
>>    S> the numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages
>>    S> with attachments.  I've found various solutions, some of which
>>    S> no longer seem to work, and was quite surprised how this
>>    S> seemingly banal task has caused so much trouble.  However, in
>>    S> Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into the
>>    S> actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way,
>>    S> they display when the recipient views the message.  Just how
>>    S> does one compose a message like that with Python may I ask?
>>
>>It's actually fairly easy using mimelib.  Note that
>>
>>    http://mimelib.sf.net

I just wonder if Outlook way to embed is standard or just application
dependent.


Roman.
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Thursday, August 16, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ ".ASM programmers drive stick shifts." _/




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 19:44:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:44:28 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>        <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com>        <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net>        <9ll72t01rbk@enews2.newsguy.com>        <3B7E5355.675D569B@stroeder.com>        <9lm70i01sn@enews3.newsguy.com> <mailman.998158617.21783.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lmuom01l56@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998158617.21783.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> remaining opcodes in his table, roughly 65% of them do nothing but move
data
> onto, off of, or within the stack.  I consider all the following as data
> movement opcodes: LOAD_FAST, LOAD_CONST, LOAD_NAME, LOAD_GLOBAL,
STORE_FAST,
> POP_TOP, LOAD_ATTR, STORE_NAME, and STORE_ATTR.
>
> If you want some performance boost, think about ways you might delete
about
> 90% of those instructions. ;-)

Hmmm, I'll byte -- by having joined LOAD_this_STORE_that bytecodes (5 kinds
of loads, 3 kinds of stores, that's 15 new bytecodes) and a few
call-and-poptop
ones?  And a peephole optimizer to change the bytecode stream coming from
the current compiler to one using the new bytecodes (and making a few more
minor opts while he's at it)...?

Or am I missing something obvious...?  'cause I don't think that would
delete
90% of the datamovement instructions -- maybe 30 to 40% or so...?


Alex





From coffeekid at pacbell.net  Wed Aug 29 01:28:25 2001
From: coffeekid at pacbell.net (CoffeeKid)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:28:25 -0700
Subject: Why use Python?
Message-ID: <Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160@news.pacbell.net>

Can somebody tell me why I would want to use Python over VB
for Windows programming?  I've seen several comparisons between
Python and other language but not VB yet.

-CoffeeKid




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:18:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:18:24 +0200
Subject: rexec questions
References: <mailman.996864975.20659.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kmg2g018m7@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.996864975.20659.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> >>> rexec.RExec.ok_builtin_modules
    ...
> I thought that it could import ONLY rexec.RExec.ok_builtin_modules!

The only builtin-modules (i.e., modules written in C) that
the untrusted code can import are those there listed.

> (Though, popen2.os is restricted correctly). Is rexec smarter these
> days or does it restrict loading only dynamic (written in C) modules?

That's the semantic of ok_builtin_modules.

But note that you CAN subclass rexec.RExec and tweak things!
For example, most simply, use a different ok_path and only
modules in the directories you list in ok_path will be importable
by untrusted code r_exec'd by instances of your subclass.
Or even, override method r_import and you can define your
own importing policies.


> And also, is ther any way to restrict programs from contacting
> hosts outside some list? If I understood correctly, networking
> in rexec is all-or-nothing...

Right, but, again, you can easily wrap the socket module to
control what happens -- put your own wrapper in a directory
on the ok_path, make sure it's also in sys.modules['socket']
so that trusted Python-coded networking modules that may
be called from untrusted code will also use your wrapper when
connecting sockets, and there you are.

rexec is something of a 'sandbox construction toolkit' (together
with Bastion) rather than a finished piece of work -- probably
because there isn't much current interest in controlled execution
of untrusted Python code, so rexec didn't (I think) mature much
after work on Grail more or less stopped.  But there are surely
other interesting applications for sandboxes for untrusted code,
so it may be time to design and implement a rexec2 successor,
building upon rexec to add easier customization of security
(controlled imports of non-builtin modules too, connections
only to hosts on a trusted list, whatever...).


Alex





From grante at visi.com  Thu Aug 30 10:40:39 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:40:39 GMT
Subject: Is there any editor support python?
References: <9mk80i$hdf$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9osk7o.mpl.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <9mk80i$hdf$1 at mail.cn99.com>, Formalin wrote:

> Is there any editor support python?

Jed  (among many others).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm protected by
                                  at               a ROLL-ON I rented from
                               visi.com            AVIS...


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 19 13:27:00 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:27:00 +0200
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org> <ac677656.0108101522.7ee95f6f@posting.google.com> <2065929.XNkdZ6W18F@lunix.schabi.de> <3b7c7b80$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <1043547.abflUDmCvn@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Neil Macneale <mac4-devnull at theory.org> schrub:

>> With German keyboard layout, we have to press Shift for (), " and '
>> as we have to use the Alt-Gr-Key to get {}s and []s.
> 
> Why be confined by you country's keyboard layout...
> 
> http://www.theory.org/~mac4/aneorits
> 
> Change your keymap to program more confortably!!!

Not Found
The requested URL /~mac4/aneorits was not found on this server.

That's at least what my browser says :-(

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From benji_york at cal-na.com  Fri Aug  3 10:10:05 2001
From: benji_york at cal-na.com (Benji York)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 07:10:05 -0700
Subject: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
References: <dc6f5c99.0108010315.70be0de0@posting.google.com> <112e9d13.0108011014.1fb2241a@posting.google.com> <dc6f5c99.0108011806.344afa14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <59667b81.0108030610.3ab7c11f@posting.google.com>

grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton) wrote...
> Thanks for the analysis and pointers. Gives me more to think about.
[snip info about his project]

Something I haven't seen presented here yet:  When starting a new
project to create web interfaces for several databases I decided
against the templating approach (for reasons addressed elsewhere on
this thread).  I started with HTMLgen, but soon found it to be
lacking.  I wrote a simple OO-ized HTML generating library that has
grown over the last year, but is still quite simple to use.  It
reflects my desire to write Python code that looks like Python, but
ultimately generates HTML.

Example:

# Build a table.
table = Table(width='100%', border=1)
table.newRow()
table.newCell('foo')
table.newCell(Font('bar', size='+1'), bgColor='#CCFFFF')
table.newRow()
table.newCell(NoBreak('A really long cell.'), columnSpan=2)
print table

Results in:

<table width="100%" border="1"><tr><td>foo</td><td
bgcolor="#CCFFFF"><font size="+1">bar</font></td></tr><tr><td
colspan="2"><nobr>A really long cell.</nobr></td></tr></table>

As noted before in the thread, you very quickly build up your own more
complex objects, so the top level of your app has mostly more
sophisticated objects.  One example would be the Box class that I
created.  Conceptually it's just a container that draws it's contents
on a colored field with a different color border.  It's easy to stuff
any other object (or anything with a __str__ function) into them.  It
uses the HTML objects underneath to do it's thing.

The reason I choose this approach is that we are an all-programmer
shop, where we have to do the HTML too.  Therefore tightly integrating
it to the code (but keeping presentation seperate from logic, etc.)
makes more sense than trying to design the HTML separately.

I'm hoping to clean up the code and release it soon, any interest?


Benji York


From formalin14 at email.com.cn  Thu Aug 30 13:21:04 2001
From: formalin14 at email.com.cn (Formalin)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:21:04 -0700
Subject: How to make UEdit support python?
Message-ID: <9mk7ur$hbv$1@mail.cn99.com>

How to make UEdit support python?




From a at a.a  Tue Aug  7 11:37:35 2001
From: a at a.a (Fiack Vincent)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:37:35 +0200
Subject: scope question
References: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <0j20ntgu3vn4o6gulkrh6da7umo6f0og9j@4ax.com>

On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:27 +0100, Mark Robinson
<m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote:
>count = 0
>def function():
>	print count

You aren't modifing 'count', and it seems that you can read it without
declaring it as global.

count = 0
def function():
	other = count + 1
	print other

this works.
-- 
Vincent.


From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 31 04:23:37 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:23:37 GMT
Subject: zope installation
Message-ID: <dQHj7.28554$6x5.5992951@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

using redhat 7.1, i downloaded and installed the zope and zserver 
rpm-packages
i start zserver by typing: service zope start (sysV-initialization script)
it says that startup was ok but the server immediately dies
in the messages file (/var/log/messages), the following error pops up

zope: zserver.sh startup succeeded
z2[1381]: Startup exception: error: (91, 'Protocol wrong type for socket')

anyone an idea
help much appreciated




From new_name at mit.edu  Wed Aug 29 10:20:15 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 10:20:15 -0400
Subject: Timetable to a Python PAUSE?
References: <280f26fb.0108290526.2d7e0ec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <etd66b7gd7k.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

http://python.org/sigs/catalog-sig/

HTH
Alex.


From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 24 18:17:32 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:17:32 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <slrn9ocg09.8fh.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <0oAh7.131792$EP6.36725717@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

> I feel that the indentation feature does far more good
> than harm for three reasons - 1. it's more readable 2. there's no
bracing
> style disagreements and 3. code executes the way it looks, so you
can't

*NOT* using {} redundantly for blocking frees {} for use as dictionary
delimiters.  Anyone who suggests using {} for structure should be
asked how they would write dictionary literals!

Terry J. Reedy





From samlo at cyberway.com.sg  Tue Aug  7 12:27:06 2001
From: samlo at cyberway.com.sg (Sam Lo)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 00:27:06 +0800
Subject: Marketing Management
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010808002706.007b81b0@cyberway.com.sg>

Can someone solve this

a) Explain the general orientation of your organization towards marketing,
or your organization's overall attitudes and philosophies towards marketing.




From printers at sendme.cz  Tue Aug  7 11:16:09 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (Lad)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 08:16:09 -0700
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
Message-ID: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com>

Hi,
Does UrlLib (any other)module support cookies? An example is
mail.yahoo.com where I must first sign-in and then cookies are return
for this session and only then I can read my mails.
Thanks for help.
Ladislav


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug  8 17:16:46 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:16:46 -0400
Subject: newbie string.replace question
In-Reply-To: <200108082107.f78L7dl17957@vela.tradersdata.com>; from fett@tradersdata.com on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:07:39PM -0400
References: <200108082107.f78L7dl17957@vela.tradersdata.com>
Message-ID: <20010808171646.A1093@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 05:07:39PM -0400, fett at tradersdata.com wrote:
> Could someone please tell me why the following segment of code wont
> work:
> 
> unformat = quote[11]
> string.replace(unformat, '<B>', '')   
> string.replace(unformat, '</DL>', '')  
> string.replace(unformat, '</B>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<DL COMPACT>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<DT>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<DD>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '<OL>', '')
> string.replace(unformat, '</OL>', '')
> 
> when i print the html stuff i was replacing is still there.

string.replace() returns the result and leaves the original untouched.
So, what you want is
    unformat = quote[11]
    unformat = string.replace(unformat, '<B>', '')   
    ...
or
    unformat = quote[11]
    for i in ('<B>', ...):
	unformat = string.replace(unformat, i, '')   
    
-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Aug 11 01:10:52 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 22:10:52 -0700
Subject: One yahoo's view
References: <i676ntg62akjess1vdhr4dltkq4jg3j2vl@4ax.com> <6EFc7.19$0c.1391@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9l2eos$q1s$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <6EFc7.19$0c.1391 at e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>,
Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>So the real question is, who are *you*?

What do you want?
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug 15 11:19:04 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 08:19:04 -0700
Subject: Threads
References: <e34de21e.0108131242.55a471be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9le3t8$fu6$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <e34de21e.0108131242.55a471be at posting.google.com>,
Lad <printers at sendme.cz> wrote:
>
>I am a newbie with Python.I want to use threads in my application.
>Can you please let me know what is the best way of programming threads
>under Win32 systems?

http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Wed Aug 15 17:12:05 2001
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:12:05 -0400
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
References: <mailman.997867223.18413.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7AE5A5.F09F0548@astro.cornell.edu>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: Tom Loredo [SMTP:loredo at astro.cornell.edu]
> > BTW, I *really* miss the table of contents from the old version
> > (a whole page with headings & subheadings and PAGE NUMBERS).  I keep
> > the printed copy by my desk (where it doesn't take up any screen
> > real estate!) and this made it a lot easier to navigate through.
> 
> Tom,
> Which old version is this? Not one that I have ever seen...

Oops, sorry.  I was confusing it with the "Python language quick reference"
by John Shipman available only as PostScript/PDF:

  http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/lang.html

I like both of the quick references; thanks to both of you for all the
hard work to make a Pythoner's life easier!

Peace,
Tom


From lee.reilly at ntlworld.com  Thu Aug  9 15:07:19 2001
From: lee.reilly at ntlworld.com (Lee)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 20:07:19 +0100
Subject: generating SQL - problem
References: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com> <9kscfi011va@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B72DF67.5E99FEF8@ntlworld.com>

Hi,

The reason I'm generating so many single inserts is because I do no not know
just how big an SQL statement I can execute. I'm using a Gadfly database
*shudder* with Zope, where the SQL interface is an HTML textfield! I know the
pitfalls of the Gadfly database, and I don't know just how it will perform with
such a large content, but I'm giving it a shot. I plan to just create the insert
statements, save them in a text file, and copy and paste (and execute) to my
hearts content :)

Yup, I figured just to hold each insert statement in a list.

Thanks for all your help - appreciated ;-)

Lee



From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug 28 15:38:46 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:38:46 -0400
Subject: Header inconsistency?
In-Reply-To: <9mfikp$ajf$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEJALIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Maciej Sobczak]
> ...
> I've found that in file config.h that is shipped with Python
> distribution there are lines:
>
> typedef long intptr_t;
> typedef unsigned long uintptr_t;
>
> whereas in some other files shipped with my compiler (indirectly
> included by
> my lib code) there are:
>
> typedef int intptr_t;
> typedef unsigned int uintptr_t;

Offhand this looks like a problem unique to Windows; please track the bug
report at

<http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=456252&group_id=5470&atid=1
05470>

> ...
> However, I've got a question:
> Is this a problem? Or a bug? Should/Can I tinker with the files
> distributed with Python this way? Is this a known problem?

Yes, yes, no/yes, now it is <wink>.

> Few details:
> I use ActiveState2.1.0 distribution and MSVC++ compiler on Win2000.

ints and longs are the same size on all current Windows flavors, so fiddling
the config file this way won't hurt anything.




From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug  3 16:47:34 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:47:34 -0700
Subject: counting occurrences
Message-ID: <9kf2l60uic@drn.newsguy.com>

Hi Gang,

I have long used dictionaries to counting occurrences of something (usually
strings).  It goes something like this:

    counter = {}
    for s in strings:
        counter[s] = counter.get(s, 0) + 1

(I used to use "has_key" until I caught on to "get".)

This then usually leads to a need to "sort keys by value"--something like this:

   itemlist = [(value, key) for (key, value) in counter.items()]
   itemlist.sort()
   itemlist.reverse()

(Which demonstrates yet _another_ valuable use for list comprehensions<wink>.)

Then, "itemlist" contains sorted (value, key) pairs--usually to be printed or
something.

For me, this sort of thing comes up so often that it qualifies as an "idiom". 
However, the sorting thing is a pain (at least a first--then you get so you like
to impress people by having finally found a use for list comprehensions<wink>),
so I mentioned to a friend that it would sure be nice if Python dictionaries had
an "items_sorted_by_value" method.  But, among other things, my friend (who has
been using Python for a *long* time) said that he has never wanted such a thing,
because he doesn't see counting occurrences "as a dictionary operation".

So how do you think he does it?

tim:-help-me-out-here<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From kirill at xyz.donetsk.ua  Thu Aug  9 23:18:30 2001
From: kirill at xyz.donetsk.ua (Kirill Simonov)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:18:30 +0300
Subject: Creating multi-dimensional arrays
In-Reply-To: <9kqupp$1jt$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; from spam_buster_2000@yahoo.com on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 08:55:21AM +0000
References: <9kqupp$1jt$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20010810061830.F669@xyz.donetsk.ua>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 08:55:21AM +0000, spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been writing a couple of programs recently which use multi-dimensional arrays of
> a predefined size, and I was wondering if there was a standard idiomatic way of creating 
> these in Python. I'm not looking to restrict the arrays to contain specific types, so just 
> pointing me to Numeric isn't the answer here.

You can use dictionaries instead of nested lists:

a = {}
for i in range(10):
    for j in range(10):
        for k in range(10):
            a[i,j,k] = 0




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 30 20:13:13 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:13:13 +1200
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <mailman.999031543.25940.python-list@python.org>
	        <toopvfbr30t45d@news.supernews.com> <mailman.999094845.12369.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8ED699.B342BBF0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
> I might be reading this wrong, and I'm definitely taking you out of context,
> but the whole idea of .so files is that their text sections *are* shared
> among processes.  Their data sections will be process-private.

I think the difference lies in whether the parts of the
code that need to be changed to fix external references
are per-process or shared. On Unix they're per-process,
so each instance of the shared library can have its
own set of references back to the program which is
using it. On Windows they're apparently shared.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 14:29:38 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:29:38 -0500
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
In-Reply-To: <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
        <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu>
        <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
        <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <15242.37266.462141.576494@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sheila> I had suggested that he provide a more recent version in a
    Sheila> separate directory, but in the end, I got to install the
    Sheila> upgraded Python in my own server space. (And it takes no small
    Sheila> chunk of space, for those of us on small, basic web hosting
    Sheila> packages.)

You can trim back some of the space from a standard install by deleting all
the .pyc or .pyo files.  If you never use "python -O" or "python -OO", the
.pyo files will never be used.  On my sytem the .pyo's take up 7MB and the
.pyc's almost 9MB (just how much you save will depend on what you have
installed in the site-packages directory).  If write access to your
python2.1 directory tree is possible by those scripts needing .py[co] files,
you can just scrap all of them and let those scripts compile only what they
need.

You can trim another 4MB by deleting the test/ directory and another 100K or
so by deleting lib-old (just make sure you don't actually use any of those
modules in your scripts).

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug  8 08:31:05 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:31:05 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Fun with None
In-Reply-To: <slrn9n2aie.qp5.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081630270.18926-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Alexandre Fayolle wrote:
> This may be old news, but I just accidentally discovered it was possible
> to assign a value to None.

   Old and well-known. :)

> >>> None = 3
> >>> None
> 3

del None
print None
del None # Oops :)))

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 01:23:41 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 05:23:41 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
Message-ID: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>

1) normally, you call functions in python like this:

name '(' arg { ',' arg } ')'

however, 'print' is a special function in that its arguments can be
written without enclosing brackets. Wouldn't it be nice if you *could*
call your "normal" functions in the same way? Would that require too
much of a change to the python language?

I came up on the idea during work with my now multithreaded webserver.
In singlethreaded mode, I redirected sys.stdout to the socket (or
rather, a cache to be written to that socket) and used print
statements to nicely generate webpages. Now, in multithreaded mode I
need a context for the output, so I have to call a function instead;
which meant that I had to not only replace "print" by "context.write",
but also enclose the arguments in brackets.

There might be a slight ambiguity when function names are used without
arguments, because it then could be interpreted as either the function
object or the function call; but then again, I see writing the
function name as object without assigning it to some variable or some
such as rather pointless. 

IIRC VB (yuk!) can do something similar. But then, VB is possibly the
*worst* kind of advocacy possible.

2) It would be nice if you could insert "preprocessor plugins" in the
python interpreter: python scripts, that preprocess the text before
interpreted. You can always add eval()/exec() statements to your code,
but it would be nice if they were to be added automatically. Then, a
syntax change like the one described in 1) could be easily added to
the interpreter for those who would like to have it. But, maybe thats
already possible and I only don't know of it ? 


From bh at intevation.de  Fri Aug  3 05:49:27 2001
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 11:49:27 +0200
Subject: OT: Map generation/plotting
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <mailman.996777025.30145.python-list@python.org> <ug0bayqk7.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <6qr8utzd5k.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> writes:

> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> 
> >     David> Does anyone have experience with or pointers to libraries or
> >     David> utilities that would simplify the job of displaying maps and
> >     David> translating locations (aka lat/long) to the map for highlighting?
> > 
> > Mapblast?  Mapquest?
> 
> Hmm, thanks, although I may not have been clear enough :-)
> 
> Those will certainly work interactively, but at least last time I
> looked, those sites didn't publish source code or libraries that I
> could use in my own applications, do they?  (Just peeked again and
> didn't see anything, aside from some help on embedding stuff in web
> pages which won't work for what I'm aiming for)

Sounds like http://FreeGIS.org/ might have what your looking for.
FreeGIS.org provides an overview over free (FSF-sense) software for
Geographic Information Systems. 

   Bernhard

PS: I work for the guys running that site :)

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 04:18:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:18:52 +0200
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org> <slrn9n69ao.id9.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <3B735049.4547EC3E@seebelow.org> <3b737128@news.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <9l05f401pmg@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Mark Rowe" <mark21rowe at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b737128 at news.actrix.gen.nz...
> Hi,
>
> The first example should be written:
>
> >>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
> >>> f=open('e', 'w')
> >>> f.write(''.join(l))
>
> and the second should  be something like:
>
> >>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
> >>> f=open('e', 'w')
> >>> l2 = map(str, l)
> >>> f.writelines(l2)
>
> This is because f.write() takes a expects a string argument, not a list,
and
> f.writelines() expects a list of strings, not a list of integers.

Yes, but remember the original question, which you quote below:

> presumably more
> > > >|suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know
how
> to write
> > > >|the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's

"a stream of bytes" suggests that the posted wanted to use chr, not
str, as the function to be mapped.  Anyway, array.array has far better
performance for this task.


Alex





From schaffer at optonline.net  Sat Aug 11 16:27:18 2001
From: schaffer at optonline.net (Les Schaffer)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:27:18 GMT
Subject: cygwin and python21.lib: unresolved symbols
Message-ID: <ut4bnt80e5m5negk17s57v5s53gdtac5od@4ax.com>

In trying to compile the python extension for cephes using cygwin tools, i
ran into troubles in the link phase with complaints about missing symbols of
the form, for example, PyTuple_Type (_imp__PyTuple_Type).

when i check a variety of python21.dll's using dependency walker, these
symbols are shown exported. when i check with cygwin's nm:

    nm python21.lib

they are missing. so maybe this is a cygwin problem. they are not ALL
missing, just some. 

has anyone else using cygwin run into these missing symbols? 

thanks

les schaffer


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 06:16:49 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:16:49 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk><PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom><3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <3867148.x5fSG56mAB@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Stefan Schwarzer <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> schrub:

>> I'm not sure what you mean, since 'lvalue' is not a Python
>> concept, but...:
>> 
>>     a=b,c,d=e='wow'
> 
> Nice, but seems like "obfuscated Python" to me ;-)

Well - you can obfuscate in any language. But - and this is the big 
plus - Python doesn't _force_ you to do it :-)

 
>>>> a,b,c,d,e
> ('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')
> 
> I haven't yet figured out how it works. Could you please add
> parantheses to the above expression or clarify otherwise how it works?

'wow' is a string.

This string as a whole is assigned to e.

Then - as the string is a sequence of length 3 - Python does 
"Tupel-Unpacking" to b,c,d which assigns one char to each.
(try b,c,d='wowo' and you get 'ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong 
size'.)

Remember that a tupel doesn't need brackets around it in certain 
situations.

And - last but not least - the string is assigned to a. But there's the 
original String assigned to a, try the following:

>>> b,c,d='wow'
>>> a = b,c,d
>>> print a
('w', 'o', 'w')

This way a is a tupel of the three chars (=strings with length 1), not 
a string with length 3.

For further confusion, typing a,b,c,d,e on the command prompt
>>> a,b,c,d,e
('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')
implicitely builds a tupel of those 5 values - as an expression can 
have only one value which is the tupel in this case, thats why there 
are brackets around it.

The print command itsself has a "higher priority" to eat the commas for 
separation of parameters, so you need the brackets if you want a tupel.

>>> print a,b,c,d,e
wow w o w wow
>>> print (a,b,c,d,e)
('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')

Powerful, but can be confusing. Happily, the most cases just give the 
result you would expect instinctively - sign of a good language design.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From nas at python.ca  Mon Aug 20 10:53:21 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:53:21 -0700
Subject: Lists into lists
In-Reply-To: <9lr75f$njd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>; from jaif@mindspring.com on Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 10:34:23AM -0400
References: <9lr75f$njd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20010820075321.A2669@glacier.fnational.com>

Try:

    x.insert(0, list(y))




From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 21 21:40:26 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:40:26 -0700
Subject: Issue with function keyword defaults
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108051307240.31133-100000@bcryachts.atsat.com> <qYDg7.100090$rV6.4889978@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9lv2rf$bdfqe$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Try it like this instead:


>>> import time
>>> def test(r=None):
...     if r == None: r = {}
...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
...     return r
...
>>> test()
{998444336.66199994: 998444336.66199994}
>>> test()
{998444338.24399996: 998444338.24399996}
>>> test()
{998444340.17700005: 998444340.17700005}
>>>

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:qYDg7.100090$rV6.4889978 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> "Morten W. Petersen" <morten at thingamy.net> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0108051307240.31133-100000 at bcryachts.atsat.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > after trying to set an empty dictionary as a default keyword arguments'
> > value, this happened (same thing happened on 2.0.1 BTW):
> >
> > morten at debian:~$ python
> > Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219
> > (prerelease)] on linux2 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch
> > Centrum, Amsterdam
> > >>> import time
> > >>> def test(r={}):
> > ...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
> > ...     return r
> > ...
> > >>> test()
> > {997015577.922: 997015577.922}
> > >>> test()
> > {997015578.849: 997015578.849, 997015577.922: 997015577.922}
> > >>> test()
> > {997015579.446: 997015579.446, 997015578.849: 997015578.849,
> >  997015577.922: 997015577.922
> >
> > I would assume that r would be re-initialized on every call, but that's
> > not happening;  could anyone explain this behaviour?
> >
>
> Yes. The default value is bound to the argument name at the time the def
> statement is processed. Because it is a mutable value, you can (and do)
> change the dictionary's contents, but the argument name is still bound to
> the changed dictionary and so you see successive additions when you call
> test() with no arguments.
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --
> http://www.holdenweb.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>



From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 17:23:13 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:23:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: TypeError
In-Reply-To: <3B8C04F0.30906@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281720200.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Martijn wrote:

> Martijn wrote:
> It still doesn`t work. This is a code snippet example from Python 2.1 Bible:
>
> class Wallet:
> 	"where does my money go ?"
> 		WalletCnt = 0
> 	def __init__(self,balance = 0):
> 		self.balance = balance
> 		Wallet.WalletCnt = Wallet.WalletCnt + 1
> 	def getPaid(self,amnt):
> 		self.balance = self.balance +1
                                             ^

Shouldn't this be amnt instead?

> 		self.display()
>
> 	def spend(self,amnt):
> 		self.balance = self.balance -1
                                             ^

As above.

> 		self.display()
>
> 	def display:
                   ^

Whoops. Try 'def display():' instead.

> 		print 'New Balance: $%.2f; % self.balance

And this is how you would use it:

---
mywallet=Wallet()
mywallet.getPaid(50)
mywallet.spend(27)
mywallet.display()
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 23 01:33:53 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:33:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: TypeError: not indexable in cgi.py?
In-Reply-To: <0108231517470Q.28818@ike>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108230132060.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Richard Jones wrote:

> On Thursday 23 August 2001 15:06, Kurt Jansen wrote:
> > Sorry if this may be a newbie question, but that is exactly what I am.
>
> Don't apologise, we're here to help :)
>
>
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> > <HTML>
> > <HEAD>
> > <TITLE>Family Information</TITLE>
> > </HEAD>
> > <BODY><FORM method="POST" action="/cgi-bin/formhandler.py"
> > enctype="text/plain" target="_self">First Name<INPUT size="12" type="text"
> > name="fname" maxlength="20"> Last Name <INPUT size="15" type="text"
> > name="lname"><BR> <INPUT type="submit" name="sub" value="Submit"></FORM>
> > </BODY>
> > </HTML>
>
> I'm not sure what the exact problem is, but that enctype="text/plain" could
> be the culprit.
>
>    Richard

Yes, definitely take that out. The only true valid values are
'application/x-www-form-urlencoded' (the default), and 'multipart/form-data'
which should be used with <input type="file" ...>.

  http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 29 23:47:06 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:47:06 -0700
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com> <e5f40188.0108291927.5ee06bdb@posting.google.com> <9mkc62$2ppa7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9mkd87$284vq$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Qualifier:  It *does*  appear that 80 is blocked, but 8080 and other ports
seem to be OK.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:9mkc62$2ppa7$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> Not!
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
>
> ---------
> "L" <lrl at ou.edu> wrote in message
> news:e5f40188.0108291927.5ee06bdb at posting.google.com...
> > @home has permanently blocked all web servers because of code red,
> > regardless of port.
>



From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug  9 00:54:58 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:54:58 -0400
Subject: Python, mysql, roundoff problem?
In-Reply-To: <01073015535105.00729@frock.ddmweb.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEJFLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Sam Penrose]
> There appear to be two kinds of solutions to the problem of decimal
> arithmethic: real ones and hacks. Real ones seem to require a lot of
> hard work (Aahz Maruch is working on one) or that you be Tim Peters
> (search for FixedPoint.py). Actually, the fifth line of FixedPoint says
> "use at your own risk", so maybe that one isn't real.

That's my 5-word alternative to 20 pages of license text that says the same
thing.  No numeric bug has been reported against FixedPoint.py since the day
it was released, so if "real" has anything to do with reality, you can judge
from that.  But you *still* use it at your own risk <wink -- if you think
I'm going to take on unlimited liability for any stupid-ass thing someone
does with it, you're several dozen million dollars shy of getting me to
agree>.

> Aahz's isn't released yet, AFAIK, so it probably doesn't qualify as
> real yet either.

Not yet, but "someday soon enough".  FixedPoint.py was a quick hack that's
"good enough" for many mundane purposes, but the spec Aahz is implementing
is a comprehensive approach.

> In the hack category, I wrote a module that I use on numbers passed
> into and out of MySQ that works for me <wink>, in that you can do
> sensible arithmetic with it. I posted it here and received almost no
> feedback, which is about what it deserved. If there is any interest, I
> would be happy to post an updated version.

Unfortunately, most of the people who *need* decimal arithmetic aren't
really capable of articulating exactly what or why -- about the best design
guidance I was ever able to get when writing FixedPoint was "well, it should
like act just like release X.Y.Z of product Ultra P38-X2.  What?  Well, no,
it's not documented, but it seems reasonable to me, so you should do that
too.  What?  Well, no, I'm not sure what it does in all cases, but just do
it like it does!  What's the big deal?".  Etc.  With feedback like that,
you're better off making stuff up out of thin air <wink>.

people-know-what-they're-used-to-better-than-they-know-what-they-want-
    ly y'rs  - tim




From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Wed Aug 29 07:11:23 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:11:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Multithreading support for *win32* BaseHTTPServer
In-Reply-To: <3b8c76eb.763101265@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290708490.25534-100000@bagend.vzwcorp.com>

I guess I should have mentioned that that code doesn't work in
Python 2.1.   It does however work in 1.5.2 or 2.1.1...  All of
the preceding applies only to Linux AFAIK, but the error you
posted looks strikingly similar to what I get when trying to run
that code under 2.1.  I suspect a bug, but 2.1.1 is out, so....


On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Gerson Kurz wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:03:53 -0400 (EDT), "Scherer, Bill"
> <Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Try the following:
> > [Source Snipped]
>
> Neither your example nor the ones posted by the other folks seems to
> work on Win32 (more specifically: ActivePython 2.1.0.210, Windows 2000
> SP2) I get this for your example:
>
> D:\Python21\Lib>testmtserver.py
> serving on port 9999
> Exception in thread Thread-1:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\threading.py", line 378, in __bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\threading.py", line 366, in run
>     apply(self.__target, self.__args, self.__kwargs)
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\SocketServer.py", line 246, in finish_request
>     self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\SocketServer.py", line 495, in __init__
>     self.handle()
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\BaseHTTPServer.py", line 258, in handle
>     self.raw_requestline = self.rfile.readline()
>   File "D:\Python21\Lib\socket.py", line 233, in readline
>     new = self._sock.recv(self._rbufsize)
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'recv'
>
> and a similar error message for the other two examples :(
>
>

-- 
Bill.Scherer at Verizon Wireless
RHCE 807101044903581




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 11:34:35 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:34:35 +0200
Subject: getting the culprit from an exception
References: <4620daca.0107281647.4a84a5c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9k97ii0t2v@enews2.newsguy.com>

"gyromagnetic" <gyromagnetic at excite.com> wrote in message
news:4620daca.0107281647.4a84a5c8 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I'm a relative newbie to Python. Is it possible to determine the
> member of a list that caused an exception when using a 'mapped'
> function?

Unfortunately, builtin function 'map' doesn't preserve this
information anywhere, I believe (from studying the sources
of builtin_map in source file Python/bltinmodule.c).  The
relevant snippet:

  if (func == Py_None)
   value = alist;
  else {
   value = PyEval_CallObject(func, alist);
   Py_DECREF(alist);
   if (value == NULL)
    goto Fail_1;
  }

occurs within a C for-loop whose control variable is i,
so map() here 'knows' the index i for which the exception
occurred... but it jumps out of the loop, to label Fail_1,
without saving i anywhere.

I agree your request is quite a reasonable one, but I believe
you would have to phrase it as an enhancement request of
some sort (generally done by opening it as 'a bug' on
sourceforge, I think -- somebody more knowledgeable about
the process pls correct me... what IS the proper way to
submit a minor feature request such as this one?).  It's
hard (for me at least) to think of a suitable way for map
to preserve this useful information so that interested
Python code might access it.  Perhaps map() might just
try to add an exception_index attribute to the exception
object (giving up if the exception object does not let
such a supplementary attribute be added to it -- normally
exceptions are class instances, so it's no problem to
add an attribute to them).  I can imagine problems with this:

def mepper(sequence):
    return map(float, sequence)

try:
    x = map(mepper, sequence_of_sequences)
except ValueError, y:
    print "what now?"

it's unclear how y could usefully register both of
the relevant exception_index value -- the one for
the item of sequence_of_sequences and the one for
the item of THAT sequence.  Such nesting is not
bounded, of course.  Simplest would be for the
'outermost' map that's propagating an exception
to record ITS exception_index, I guess.


I think the required patch to bltinmodule.c would
be half a dozen lines between the
   if (value == NULL)
and the
    goto Fail_1;
(including the needed braces), but since it's unclear
whether this will be accepted by the maintainers I'm
not going to write and (more significantly:-) test
and debug those six-or-so-lines (as they're quite as
capable of writing them, or more:-).  I do suggest
that you formally record this enhancement request in
sourceforge, if it's indeed significant for you.


Alex





From engsol at teleport.com  Thu Aug  2 00:12:28 2001
From: engsol at teleport.com (engsol at teleport.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:12:28 GMT
Subject: Newbie Tip: Classes and variable passing vs instances from ENGSOL
Message-ID: <3b68cf98.10350162@news.onemain.com>

I'm brand new to Python, and am reading all the books I can, as I'm sure the
other "newbies" are. As a result, I breadboard "stuff" to see how they work.

Seems a waste to to just let the scripts idle on my hard drive, so from time to
time I'll post them, with the hope they will be usefu to someonel. Bear in mind
I am using NT4, and Python21. No warrenty of course. <grin>

Here's the first, regarding classes/variables/instances:

class CLASS_4:

  def __init__(self_1, input):
      print "from the \"__init__ thing\"  :   " + input

  def get_foo_bar(self_2, value):
      self_2.foo_bar = value
      print "print from \"get_foo_bar\"   :   " + value

  def print_foo_bar(self_3):
      print "print from \"print_foo_bar\" :   " + self_3.foo_bar

""" Notice:
    While 'self' is the usual *name*, we can call it anything we like.
    Here I've used the name "self_1, self_2, self_3", to make the point.
    It's obvious that they are mutually exclusive in this case.
"""
# End CLASS_4

# Now run the program:

instance_1 = CLASS_4("input from instance_1 the first time")
instance_2 = CLASS_4("input from instance_2 the first time")

instance_1.get_foo_bar("hello from instance_1 after calling \"get_foo_bar\"")
instance_2.get_foo_bar("world from instance_2 after calling \"get_foo_bar\"")

instance_1.print_foo_bar()
instance_2.print_foo_bar()

# End module class_4.py

""" PROGRAM RESULTS:

from the "__init__ thing"  :   input from instance_1 the first time
from the "__init__ thing"  :   input from instance_2 the first time
print from "get_foo_bar"   :   hello from instance_1 after calling "get_foo_bar"
print from "get_foo_bar"   :   world from instance_2 after calling "get_foo_bar"
print from "print_foo_bar" :   hello from instance_1 after calling "get_foo_bar"
print from "print_foo_bar" :   world from instance_2 after calling "get_foo_bar"

"""








From tim.one at home.com  Thu Aug 23 23:32:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:32:04 -0400
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <slrn.pl.9oab4s.ahl.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKNLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Marcin 'Qrczak']
> Would it work for Python to not heap-allocate ints but tag them in
> the lowest bit, assuming pointers are even?

No, and for several reasons.  The most obvious one is that Python runs on
word-addressed machines, where no bits of a pointer are abusable.




From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Mon Aug 20 05:00:37 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:00:37 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <h2k1otcpuii2411unfhathotf4tphs5agg@4ax.com>

On Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:35:44 +0200, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

>When I released Python 2.2a1, the type/class unification feature was
>announced as TENTATIVE.  It's been a while now (feels like a year,
>although I realize it's only been 10 days :), and I would like to see
>some feedback on this.

I was thinking about this last night, and one point struck me...

I have a C extension type, which was written back in the days of Python 1.4,
and which has worked unchanged since then. With the advent of type/class
unification in Python 2.2, I know of no reason why this would change. However,
I can imagine that users of my type would expect to be able to subclass my
type, once 2.2 arrives. (I have no idea why they might *want* to do such a
thing, but it's a truism that users find far stranger reasons for doing things
than developers ever imagined...)

So I looked through PEP 252 looking for a simple summary of how to add
"subclassability" to an existing C type. I could find nothing.

I'm assuming that I have to do *something*. If this assumption is wrong, I'd
like it if the PEP made this (good news) clearer up front. Ideally, the
changes required should be fairly boilerplate style code, which can be written
in such a way that compatibility with earlier versions of Python (maybe even
back to 1.4!!!) is not affected.

Have I missed anything here?

Paul.



From robin at brainexeculink.com  Thu Aug 16 09:09:31 2001
From: robin at brainexeculink.com (robin at brainexeculink.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:09:31 -0400
Subject: need definitive answer: capture a keypress
References: <90qkntktle172v8vdl6jgi9eh646of3n8f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uehnnt060ksc3m5fdg9ht8ort93vjnj1nl@4ax.com>

Thanks for all the replies, which I will now try.

-----
robin
robin at brainexeculink.com
(remove "brain" to reply) 


From volucris at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 18:06:32 2001
From: volucris at hotmail.com (Volucris)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:06:32 -0500
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
References: <D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b7ee623$0$318$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>

"Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D9zf7.3241$yK4.138308 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
>                              I'm a bit curious about a few things what is
> the difference between Python 2.1.1 and Pythonwin?

ActivePython is based on Python, so everything in the standard Python distro
(AFAIK) is in ActivePython. But also, including Pythonwin, COM stuff, the
docs in Windows help format, and other stuff that I can't remember.

>
>    Which one would be the better of the two since i'm running windows 98
and
> getting ready to run windows 2000?

Well, if you are going to be on Windows, might as well go with the whole
shebang. Even if only for Pythonwin; it's a pretty good IDE.

>
>    Also there is a a particualr script that norton tells me that I should
> stop when installing active python 2.1.1. Does anyone know or have
> experience with all this?
>

I haven't had this problem, but I've heard of it happening to others, as
well. It's a Norton problem, and I think they've fixed it by now. It was a
recent thread, I think. Search http://groups.google.com for Norton for more
info.

-greg




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Tue Aug  7 02:57:08 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 08:57:08 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: embeddding Tkinter in C app
In-Reply-To: <4621E0AB.C85A139F@home.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010807085708.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 15-Apr-2007 marshall wrote:
 >  ...

Wow, it's back to the future!

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    07-Aug-2001
Time:    08:56:08

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From Armin_member at newsguy.com  Sun Aug 26 12:57:30 2001
From: Armin_member at newsguy.com (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 09:57:30 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 ... stupid error in import.c
References: <9m609h02ca2@drn.newsguy.com> <uvugotgfhdhf7f0fenfeh27bqakbk9127r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9mb9pq0os4@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <uvugotgfhdhf7f0fenfeh27bqakbk9127r at 4ax.com>, Tim says...
>
>Armin Steinhoff <a-steinhoff at web.de> wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>> to all who are porting 2.1.1 to a UNIX like system.
>>
>>I'm porting 2.1.1 to QNX6 and got the situation that the module 'os' could not
>>be be found with 'import os'
>>
>>After some hacking with DDD .. I found out that the pathes used by the search
>>algorithm of import.c has nothing to do with the directory structure of the
>>>>UNIXdistribution of Python 2.1.1 =:-/
>
>I'm not sure you really understand the normal layout of a Unix directory
>structure.  In Unix, you never install a product in the root of a
>filesystem.  

I didn't install a product. As a root guy ... I have the freedom to install 
my stuff everywhere, even if it doesn't fit to your puristic UNIX view :) 

>The root is kept as simple as possible:  /usr, /home, /etc,
>/var, /boot, /tmp, and little else. 

Should be the common rule for productive systems ...

> The various files that make up a
>product get spread around.  Binaries go into a global binary directory.
>Libraries go into a global library directory.  Configuration files go into
>yet another central directory.
>
>When you install Python in a Unix-like system, you specify a top-level
>"prefix".  This is usually either /usr or /usr/local.  The Python binary is
>then installed in $prefix/bin.  The modules are installed in
>$prefix/lib/python-2.1 (that is, only the first two digits of the version
>are used to make the library path).

Sorry ... you missing the point. I didn't install the binaries of Python !!
Also,  'make install' didn't install the .so modules to $prefix/lib/python-2.1 .

>>I have installed Python in the root directory and set PYTHONHOME/PYTHONPATH to
>>/Python-2.1.1 -> the path to he library modules is then
>>
>>                     -> /Python-2.1.1/Lib
>
>What you describe is the way a Windows installation works.

Nonsens ...

>  This is NOT how a Unix installation usually works.
>
>>The search algorithm of import.c is using the following search path sequence:
>>
>>  "os.so"   -> I don't know why it should make sense to open
>>               a shared object with fopen ??
>>  "osmodule.so"
>>  "os.py"
>>  "os.pyc"
>>
>>  "/Python-2.1.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
>>
>>  "/Python-2.1.1/lib/python2.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
>>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ who got the idea that this is part of the 
>>                                UNIX distribution ??
>
>Well, that's the way it works.

You are missing the point ... the search algorithm doesn't meet the 
directory structure of the source archive of Python-2.1.1!

Armin



>--
>- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From jansen at us.ibm.com  Mon Aug 20 02:43:13 2001
From: jansen at us.ibm.com (Kurt Jansen)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:43:13 -0600
Subject: Python Library Question
Message-ID: <3B80B181.1E8D44A4@us.ibm.com>

I am new to Python, and am trying to implement a Web site using Python
for my CGI scripts.  I am having trouble using any of the functions in
the Python Library on my Web hosting provider's system.  For instance,
if I try to use the math functions, I get the following errors:
west38:~$ python
Python 1.4 (Dec 18 1996) [GCC 2.7.2.1]
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import math
>>> x=2
>>> y=exp(x)
Traceback (innermost last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: exp
>>>

Am I doing something wrong, or is the Python Library not loaded on my
hosting provider's system?
Kurt Jansen



From KurtJansen at go.com  Thu Aug 23 19:52:43 2001
From: KurtJansen at go.com (Kurt Jansen)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Getting User Name With Apache Basic Authentication
Message-ID: <4789787.998610763951.JavaMail.KurtJansen@gomailjtp01>

I would like to set up password protected directories for my Web site (Apache) using the htpasswd/.htaccess.  This means that whenever a user requests a page in the protected directory, they get prompted for a userid/password.  I would like to capture the userid that the user enters from within my Python CGI script.  This seems like it would be a common thing to do, but I can't find anything in the Python library or this newsgroup that addresses it.  Anyone have any suggestions?

Kurt Jansen

___________________________________________________
GO.com Mail                                    
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com





From m at moshez.org  Sun Aug 12 01:51:20 2001
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:51:20 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <9l2ugf2egu@enews2.newsguy.com>
References: <9l2ugf2egu@enews2.newsguy.com>, <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com> <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B73B115.9981318D@student.gu.edu.au> <9l0fu80287j@enews4.newsguy.com> <cp66bv46jk.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010812055120.9EDB8392B@darjeeling>

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:37:36 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I call the feature 'rarely used', but others may use it less
> rarely.  Moshe Zadka, for example, has advocated that a
> class-change is the right way to 'customize' a specific
> instance, rather than adding a method to the instance itself
> on the fly (I'm not quite sure why, and wouldn't want to
> misrepresent his position, but I believe it has to do with a
> wish to see behavior as associated with _classes_, not with
> _instances_).

So let me reiterate my arguments: you avoid a reference loop (since
the binding is done lazily as usual), and you have better debuggability,
since you can *see* this instance is "different". More, in the usual
case where this is done wholesale for a bunch of instances, then it is
much cleaner.

FWIW, assignment to __class__, while as esoteric trick, is one of the
features I love most in Python and I would absolutely hate to lose it. 
-- 
Moshe Zadka - http://moshez.geek
(if you're not cool, http://moshez.org is still working)



From Albert.Langer at Directory-Designs.Org  Wed Aug  1 21:28:43 2001
From: Albert.Langer at Directory-Designs.Org (Albert Langer)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 18:28:43 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d5e55984.0108011728.15131e85@posting.google.com>

> As the first argument can immediately signify a class method if the
> same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an uncontentious
> name popped up.

"kind" was mentioned earlier on. Seems to have been ignored rather
than causing contention ;-)


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug 18 07:36:53 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:36:53 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net> <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com> <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net> <9ll72t01rbk@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B7E5355.675D569B@stroeder.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207
> 
> If something can be done with a few lines of code in the
> language as it is, it requires very strong motivation for that
> something to become a built-in language mechanism:

I would guess that the recipe above causes some performance penalty.

> I think that "constants" are a good
> example of something that should NOT be in the language
> itself, exactly because it's a minor issue and it can be
> easily implemented without too much trouble

Disclaimer: I'm not a compiler expert.
IMHO constants are useful in compiled languages because they are
immutable and therefore a compiler can insert them as "in-line"
operands for optimization.

Ciao, Michael.


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Wed Aug 15 06:23:48 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:23:48 +0200
Subject: Module Name
Message-ID: <3B7AE6F7@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Kerim Borchaev" <warkid at storm.ru> =====

>so the question is : How can I implement addModule?

>def addModule(suite, module):
>    __import__(module)
>    suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(module))
>
>doesnt execute any test.  loadTestsFromModule doesn't work - and I
>can't understand why...

I have no experience with unittest, but I think that

  module = __import__(module)

should work. I figure loadTestsFroModule needs a module object, rather than a 
string, which is what it gets now.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 09:52:05 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:52:05 +0200
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998804559.5680.python-list@python.org> <9md62v01ne3@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9ok9t3.bm8.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <9mdja602ej3@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote in message
news:slrn.pl.9ok9t3.bm8.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda...
> Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:06:21 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:
>
> > def curry_to_argumentlessness(*args, **kwds):
> >     def totally_curried_function():
> >         return args[0](*args[1:],**kwds)
> >     return totally_curried_function
>
> A little bit nicer:
>
>   def curry_to_argumentlessness(fun, *args, **kwds):
>       def totally_curried_function():
>           return fun(*args, **kwds)
>       return totally_curried_function

Except, of course, that this breaks down badly in
one special case...: when one among the keywords
in kwds is 'fun'.  To wit:

def press_button(fun):
    print "text is",fun

use = curry_to_argumentlessness(press_button, fun="happy")

...oops...?!

We don't want to have to document peculiar, strange
restrictions due to internals when we develop general
purpose tools like curry_to_argumentlessness such
as "it works to curry any callable with its arguments
EXCEPT when one of the arguments is a keyword-argument
whose argument name is 'fun' in which case we're out
of luck because we wanted to use a version of our
implementation which some thought was 'a little
bit nicer', sorry folks".

I consider it *MUCH* nicer to use my original version
and avoid any such restriction.  And no, there is
no restriction in my version about having keyword
arguments named 'args' or 'kwds', either -- check.


Alex





From tavis at calrudd.com  Sat Aug 11 16:34:06 2001
From: tavis at calrudd.com (Tavis Rudd)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:34:06 -0700
Subject: C API ?: checking if an object is a class
Message-ID: <01081113340602.00476@lucy>

Hi,
how do I check if a PyObject is a class object?
Is there any equivalent of PyInstance_Check() that can do 
this or do I need to use PyObject_Type()?  If it's the 
later where do I get the 'class' PyType object?

Cheers,
Tavis 



From r.b.rigilink at chello.nl  Sun Aug 12 03:30:11 2001
From: r.b.rigilink at chello.nl (Roeland Rengelink)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 07:30:11 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B763352.BD12171C@chello.nl>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:
> 
> > Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> > remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?
> 
> Yes, I'd like to remove this.  See my previous post in this thread for
> more of an explanation of the problem.  But I haven't decided yet!
> This thread will help me figure out how big of a deal it will be.
> 

One idiom where I use __class__ assignment is the following

class State:
    def __init__(self):
        self.state = 1
    def do_something(self):
        if self.state:
           ...do something...
        else:
           ...do something else...
    def change_state(self):
        if self.state:
            self.state = 0
        else:
            self.state = 1

refactor:

class State1:
    def do_something(self):
        ...do something...
    def change_state(self):
        self.__class__ = State2
class State2:
    def do_something(self):
        ...do something else...
    def change_state(self):
        self.__class__ = State1




Now, I can't imagine wanting to use this with something like:

class State1(list):
    ...
class State2(dict):
    ...

But I can imagine wanting to use this with:
 
class State1(object):
class State2(object):

I could imagine one of several restrictions on assignment to __class__,
all based on comparing the object that is currently assigned to
__class__
(old) with the one that is going to replace it (new).

1. Make it illegal to assign to class if either old or new defines a
__slots__
   attribute
2. Make it illegal to assign to class if old.__slots__ != new.__slots__
3. Make it illegal to assign to class if old.__bases__ != new.__bases__


[snip]

> 
> If you know the type it's going to be eventually, you can use
> C.__new__() to create an uninitialized C instance.
> 

Speaking of __new__. Would it be an idea to give __new__() the
responsibility
for calling __init__ on the new instance. Now we have:

class Singleton(object):
    _instances = {}
    def __new__(object_type, *args, **kwargs):
	return Singleton._instances.setdefault(object_type,
                                              
object.__new__(object_type))

class A(Singleton):
    def __init__(self):
	print 'A.__init__', self

a, b = A(), A()

giving:
A.__init__ <A object at 0x810f6b0>
A.__init__ <A object at 0x810f6b0>

While I would have loved to be able to do (and it was I mild surprise
that I couldn't):

class Singleton(object):
    _instances = {}
    def __new__(object_type, *args, **kwargs):
        if object_type in Singleton._instances:
            return Singleton._instances[object_type]
        new_instance = object.__new__(object_type)
        try:
           new_instance.__init__(*args, **kwargs)
        except AttributeError:
           pass
        return new_instance

With object.__new__ defined something like:

class object:
    def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs):
        if cls.__new__ == object.__new__:
            # if I have responsibility I'll call __init__
            new_instance = create_new_instance(cls)
            new_instance.__init__(*args, **kwargs) # but catch AttrErr
        else: 
            # If you have your own new, you take responsibility
            new_instance = create_new_instance(cls)
        return new_instance

and the instantiation process only calling cls.__new__()
   
BTW, I managed to build a Singleton class, using metaclasses, that gave
me the right behaviour. This process has become slightly less painfull
in 2.2, but only slightly ;)

The Singleton pattern is a rather trivial example of course. I think one
of things I'm looking for here is the ability to fold functionality,
that I would traditionally put in factory functions, into a base class.
__new__ seems to be ideally suited for that, but I would need to have
control over calling __init__ too. Having said that, being able to play
these tricks with metaclasses, is fun too. In a perverse sort of way...

Anyway,

Thanks for another set of great improvements to Python

Groeten,

Roeland
-- 
r.b.rigilink at chello.nl

"Half of what I say is nonsense. Unfortunately I don't know which half"


From parker at gol.com  Wed Aug 15 10:16:13 2001
From: parker at gol.com (Ian Parker)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:16:13 GMT
Subject: Eliminating upgrade risk
References: <tlu596rosgngd9@news.supernews.com>
 <3B5FAD11.FB9D737E@engcorp.com> <tm336a7vjqjq5f@news.supernews.com>
 <3B656CBC.4F8FAFB2@interet.com> <9k3s5m$9av$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <II57rFAFRoe7EwEb@gol.com>

In article <9k3s5m$9av$1 at panix2.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com>
writes
>In article <3B656CBC.4F8FAFB2 at interet.com>,
>James C. Ahlstrom <jim at interet.com> wrote:
>>
>>But it would be naive to ignore the problem that Red Hat has
>>declined to upgrade from 1.5.2.  A quick
>>find | wc shows that Red Hat 7.1 has 84,494 lines of Python
>>code not counting the Python libraries.  I don't know how
>>Red Hat is supposed to upgrade Python and still know their
>>code works.
>
>That's a different issue.  Until June 2001, no version of Python after
>1.5.2 was GPL-compatible according to the FSF.  Now that 2.0.1 and 2.1.1
>are available, I expect that the various distributions will be
>upgrading.  Eric Raymond will make sure of that.  ;-)
>
>>BTW, it's not just the division proposal.  The change from
>>lst.append(x, y) to lst.append((x, y)) is another example.
>
>From what I see, the complaints about the division proposal are
>two-fold: silent breakage of old code and difficulty of maintaining
>cross-version code.  Neither of those points applies to the
>list.append() case, so few people have complained about that.

I have to support John Roth.  I've spent almost 20 years working in
organisations where reliability of systems is critical.  Most of my
background has been involved with OpenVMS systems.  Like IBM, Digital
tried exceptionally hard to avoid code-breakage with upgrades.  My
(normal) programs and scripts from the earliest versions of VMS can
still run on modern VMS systems.  Some code may need re-linking against
modern libraries, some may not.  

Why is compatibility so important?  Because these systems are very
complex, historical skills and knowledge are always lost and down-time
is very expensive.  It takes months to plan and schedule an upgrade to a
major system, and wherever possible you attempt to disengage the
developers (who have their own work to do) from the upgrade of the
production systems, because you can't involve all of the IT department
in every upgrade of the OS, layered software, compilers, database
software, etc.  

Remember also that in a large, complex system, you can't necessarily
roll-back if the upgrade doesn't work.  If it's a cluster of a dozen
alphas spread across two sites running all your critical applications,
or if it's a single trading system running across fifty Sun servers,
it's really difficult both to test in advance and to fix in a hurry.  So
when it doesn't work, you're down for a day and perhaps you're out of
the company, if the system's not operational by the next morning.  It's
even more upsetting when a global upgrade is required, and you find New
York doesn't work, after you've apparently successfully upgraded systems
from Japan to Europe.

So of course, you don't want incompatibilities introduced, and more
critically you don't want silent breakage of old code.

My tuppence-hapenny worth.

Regards

-- 
Ian Parker


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 08:48:54 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:48:54 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
Message-ID: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk>

I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;)) 
trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure 
that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial 
problem.

I have a nested list structure of the following format:
[[2, 3, 4, 5],
  [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
  [6, 2, 7, 4]
  ....
  ....
]

I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from 
each nested list

i.e
[2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
[2, 4, 2, ..., ...]

If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code 
it as a series of nested for loops:

i.e

for i in list[0]:
	for j in list[1]:
		for k in list[2]:
				comb = [i, j, k]

but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the 
outermost list is going to be variable in length.

If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and 
give you all the profit ;)

Blobby



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:03:16 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:03:16 +0200
Subject: problems with regex in Japanese?
References: <100820011007233964%joe@strout.net> <kuwv4bbz1u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <100820011208059612%joe@strout.net>
Message-ID: <j4ofpmdicb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Joe Strout <joe at strout.net> writes:

> > python no longer uses pcre, the pcre based regexp module
> > was replaced by a new unicode-aware implementation called sre (written
> > by Fredrik Lundh). sre is much faster too...
> 
> Wow, I didn't know that.  Where can I find out more about sre?

In Python 2.x, the re module is really sre, not pcre. I recommend not
to use UTF-8 strings, but convert them to Unicode objects, and pass
those into your regular expressions. Please read the re module
documentation for details; take particular notice of the UNICODE flag,
which determines whether character properties will or will not come
from the Unicode character database.

Regards,
Martin



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 22 18:28:16 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 22:28:16 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

22 Aug 2001 12:44:18 -0700, Russell Turpin <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> pisze:

>     spam = 3
> 
> The variable "spam" is an Integer, "Integer" is now a class
> (unification, right?), so there should be *some* attribute
> of the class Integer, lets call it __myval__, such that:
> 
>     spam.__myval__ == 3

Why?

In designing an "everything is a [...]" type of framework (e.g.
everything is an object, or a function) there must be a place where
the ideal abstract recursive structure of the world breaks somehow.
There must be a way to insert some concrete. Perhaps not easily
reachable from inside, i.e. the world pretends that everything looks
the same, but...

If *every* object would be for example a dictionary from strings to
objects plus a reference to an object (its class), then you wouldn't
be able to do anything with it. You can't call any of its methods:
you can extract it, you have a "callable" in hand, but if it's an
object like others, then you perhaps need to extract its __call__
entry, and call it - well, this means getting *its* __call__ entry
etc. ad infinitum.

Or if you want to add two numbers you could call a method of the first
passing it the second as argument. The method code would examine the
second number, but even if it could figure out that it's an integer
too, it must somehow get its value. If it meant extraction of a
__myval__ entry, then what is found at __myval__? Perhaps an integer,
so to get its bits you will look at its __myval__ etc.?

The abstract knot can be broken in various places. For example by
introducing primitive object types. Or by introducing functions which
return something other than regular objects. Or by not pretending that
every object is defined by its __dict__ and having primitive functions
(where calling a function is done differently than by getting some of
its official attributes) which are able to perform operations on some
objects whose behavior is not visible in their __dict__.

Or something similar. But having a dictionary of attributes as the
*only* possible interface of objects just doesn't work.

I'm playing with similar ideas now. In the world I created every
identifier is bound to a function, a function takes functions as
arguments, but it doesn't return mere functions: there are other
kinds of values possible in function results as well, e.g. terms
and integers.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From dev__nu11 at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 20 22:39:31 2001
From: dev__nu11 at hotmail.com (Dev Null)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:39:31 GMT
Subject: Python NEWBIE!
Message-ID: <zRjg7.4248$Sa7.629783@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

Yeah, okay.  It looks like just another ordinary little bunny in front of a
cave's mouth.

But in reality, it's much deadlier.  It's a Python newbie.

Anyone know of good resources (on or offline) for one such as myself?

T3/Dev
--
"Everybody's on the make.  That's what made this country great!"
-- New Model Army, "Great Expectations"





From lrl at ou.edu  Thu Aug 30 20:36:22 2001
From: lrl at ou.edu (L)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 17:36:22 -0700
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com> <e5f40188.0108291927.5ee06bdb@posting.google.com> <9mkc62$2ppa7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <9mkd87$284vq$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <e5f40188.0108301636.45971543@posting.google.com>

> Qualifier:  It *does*  appear that 80 is blocked, but 8080 and other ports
> seem to be OK.

Okay, you are correct above.  My initial assumption was based on a
firewall mistake I had made not allowing alternative port traffic.

LL


From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 09:10:53 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:10:53 GMT
Subject: Questions about threads
References: <mailman.999001782.6985.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xLMi7.22259$6x5.4897716@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

A wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi,
> Can anybody please answer my questions?
> 
> 1. In my application  I need one function to run in threads. The
> number of threads is chosen by user and numbers of threads can
> not be higher at one time.
> This function writes to a file also.How can I prevent other threads
> from writing to this file when the file is open by another thread ?
> 
> 2. How can one process control another? For example: my
> program tries to connect to a server over phone.  I want  to cancel
> dial up connection if there is timeout. How can that be done in
> Python?
> 
> Thank you very much for help.
> Ladislav
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
for the serializing of the file operations: use locks.
look in the library reference for the thread module
to control another process: you'll have to start your program from within 
python, so that you can acquire the process id. With that information you 
can do anything with the running process. there are various solutions: run 
the program with 'popen' or 'system'-call or use a fork and exec call



From me at mikerobin.com  Wed Aug 22 21:12:52 2001
From: me at mikerobin.com (Michael Robin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 18:12:52 -0700
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <3b82bd6d.99311832@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <52e5ab5f.0108221712.38132a8f@posting.google.com>

The literal string "sym" (becuase it is a valid identifier name) is
already interned, so it is as close to a symbol as you're going to get
in Python. So
"x is y" (or "id(x)==id(y)" ) is alwys true, if x and y are literals
that look the same and have been interned, no matter where they come
from.
Non-literals can be intern()ed explicitly. They are still treated as
any other string. This does most of what you want w/o needing a new
type - if you want different behavior, you could always wrap your
interned string in a class, and define __hash__, __repr__, __str__,
etc.

m

bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<3b82bd6d.99311832 at wa.news.verio.net>...
> On 19 Aug 2001 18:28:23 GMT, Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig) wrote:
> [...]
> >
> >Is there a possibility in Python to return a symbol? In other words: is it
> >possible to write:
> >
> >a() = 5
> >
> >if the function a() returns a symbol like in Lisp:
> >
> >(defun a() 'x)
> >(set (a) 5) ; x is now bound to 5
> >
> [...]
> 
> I too was thinking that a symbol object might be a useful thing.
> Say it was created with the expression
>     sym = .
> which would work a lot like
>     sym='sym'
> except there would be no need for a separate string value. The binding
> could be changed as usual, of course:
>     sym = .
>     sym = 123
> but
>     d = {}
>     d[sym]=123
>     d['sym']=123
> would make two entries.
>     type(sym) would presumably return
>     <type 'symbol'>
> and symbol('sym') would return a symbol object, and writing
>     sym = symbol('sym')
> would be equivalent to
>     sym = .
> It would also be ok to write
>     spam = symbol('sym')
> 
> Presumably
>     str(sym)
> would return
>     sym
> not
>     'sym'
> and
>     print sym
> would return
>     <symbol sym>
> as would
>     print spam
> given the assignment preceding above.
> 
> You could get a list of symbol objects by, e.g.,
>     map(symbol,'abc')
> which would (not currently implemented, obviously) return
>     [<symbol a>, <symbol b>, <symbol c>]
> 
> It should be legal to have a symbol like this be either key
> or value or both in a dictionary, so
>     d={'a':'a', symbol('a'):symbol('a')}
> should be ok.
> 
> I would think these kinds of symbols could play a useful role
> as elements of an actual set type.
> 
> Hm, should symbol('') be an alias for None ?
> 
> If you extended the interpretation of the () trailer when it
> was suffixed to a symbol whose value was a symbol object,
> you could have the effect of your (grabbed and repeated from above)
> 
> >(defun a() 'x)
> >(set (a) 5) ; x is now bound to 5
> 
> by writing
>     a = symbol('x')
>     a() = 5
> 
> IOW, a=5 would rebind a normally, but a() would access the symbol object
> from symbol('x') and rebind that instead. So () would be like dereferencing
> a sym link.


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Thu Aug  9 17:29:48 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:29:48 +0200
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <mailman.997373715.7743.python-list@python.org>       <3B72E960.921F097C@earthlink.net> <15218.62197.483571.756345@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c1211a$8bac3670$ecbd6ac2@zko>

From: Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
> 
> Actually, neither the filter nor the list comprehension solutions posted
> meet the original posters requirements that you iterate through the list and
> delete elements not meeting certain criteria.  If the list has thousands of
> elements, creating a new list may not be a wise choice.
> 

Number of elements is not so relevant here, but expected percentage of
elements to be deleted.

gzeljko







From spike at oztourer.nl  Mon Aug 13 03:55:50 2001
From: spike at oztourer.nl (Steve Pike)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:55:50 GMT
Subject: Python + Windows + Webserver
References: <9l3sdq$5as$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net> <3b766809.2155375@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3b778342.3717054@news.cablewanadoo.nl>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:30:41 GMT, gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson
Kurz) wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:03:39 +0200, "Chris Eidhof" <chris at eidhof.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Hello, I'm looking for a *simple* way to set up a webserver under win98, the
>>webserver must handle python scripts. I've tried apache, but it didn't work.
>
>A *simple* webserver in python : 
>
>---- snip begin ----
>from SimpleHTTPServer import *
>test()
>---- snip end ----
>
>Its in your \python21\lib, hehe.

That should probably be CGIHTTPServer, unless you plan to list python
scripts rather than run them! Note that I was disappointed with the
Windows performance of my Python Wiki 'PikiePikie' compared to the
same script running under Linux (see
http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?DevelopmentWebLog#SpeedyWindowsVersion
for details). It would seem that the import statement is much slower
under Windows and the threaded CGIHTTPServer will perform all imports
every time your script is run. The subclass shown below runs scripts
in-process so the imports only get performed once. It provides a two
second improvement for each page served up from my script on a 400 MHz
Windows box.

  import BaseHTTPServer
  import SimpleHTTPServer
  from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler

  class InProcessHTTPRequestHandler(CGIHTTPRequestHandler):
      have_popen2 = 0

  def run(HandlerClass = InProcessHTTPRequestHandler,
             ServerClass = BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
      SimpleHTTPServer.test(HandlerClass, ServerClass)

  if __name__ == '__main__':
      run()




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug 16 19:32:46 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:32:46 GMT
Subject: win32com: Setting ByRef parameters in an event
References: <urrqlt4g5dgbjjo23msnm1c022deabt5mp@4ax.com> <2aonntcjikp8rg6fiarhali6pqu8kg3kjp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C58AE.3080602@ActiveState.com>

Paul Moore wrote:
>>   import win32com.client
>>
>>   class wexEvents:
>>       def OnTick(self, Remaining, WakeUp):
>>           print "Tick...", Remaining
>>           return -1
>>
>>   wex = win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("WshToolbox.WScriptEx",
>>                                            wexEvents)
>>
>>   wex.Sleep(10000,1000)
>>
>>But this doesn't seem to work! 

It should :(  The Excel etc demos all work fine with very similar 
constructs.  You could try:

    return 1==1

which due to an implementation detail will ensure that a VT_BOOL is 
returned - however, this should not be necessary.

So no real clue I am afraid :(  If I could repro the error, I could 
probably determine the problem.

>> (And, BTW, if I hit Ctrl-C, I get an error
>>"Unhandled exception detected before entering Python." - shouldn't I >> get a KeybordInterrupt error?)

Well, the Ctrl+C key is being hit _before_ Python code is entered.  In 
this case we possibly do _not_ want Python to handle the exception - for 
all we know, the object itself has handled the Ctrl+C key, and is 
calling back into Python to handle it.

Mark.



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 10 11:13:36 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:13:36 -0700
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <jtg0b5guox.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kp4se$gsr$1@panix3.panix.com> <slrn9n5t3n.fmo.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9l0tn0$30n$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrn9n5t3n.fmo.quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>,
Quinn Dunkan <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On 7 Aug 2001 09:26:54 -0700, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <jtg0b5guox.fsf at wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>,
>>William Annis  <annis at biostat.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>        I was with you up to the web interface.  I don't know about
>>>you, but *this* sysadmin breaks out in hives at the idea of putting
>>>system control and configuration behind a web server... by definition
>>>a public service.
>>
>>On the gut level, I kind of agree with you.  But let's walk through
>>this, shall we?  What, really, is the difference between a telnet
>>session and a web session?
>
>Security:  I can install and use ssh easily.  For http, I'm not so
>sure.  It's probably pretty easy if you know what you're doing, but I
>recall all sorts of stuff about apache patches, httpd.conf changes,
>certificate authorities, authentication realms, etc.

There's some truth to that, yes.

>Complexity:  With an ssh link you can use plain text.  Over http you
>have to use complicated html and use some giant bloated browser to see
>it.  I use systems that have no web browser, but do have ssh.  And a
>web thing is going to have some complicated nest of cgi scripts that
>will wind up doing the same stuff you can do directly with a shell.

The flip side is that if you actually want a UI, using HTML and a
browser is the simplest way of doing that.  Also, it doesn't need to be
either/or with ssh vs. HTML; you could ssh in and use Lynx, which is
hardly a bloated browser.

>Debugging:  I hate debugging web stuff.

Yup.

>Speed:  Web forms are slow and clumsy.

Not under Lynx.  ;-)  People are sometimes amazed at just how quickly I
can fill out a web form.

>And most importantly, what would a web interface give you?  It just
>seems like a slower, more complicated and awkward way to solve the same
>problems.  It's like using a complicated remote-control robot to clean
>your room instead of just walking in and picking stuff up.  Or, since
>this is a hypothetical management system, using a remote control robot
>to manipulate a a control panel to manipulate a herd of remote control
>robots to clean a bunch of rooms.

Let's say you're creating new user accounts, and there's a list of ten
boolean options that are standard (e.g. does this user get sudo
access?).  Presenting a list of checkboxes in HTML is much easier to
manage on the UI side than just about any other method.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Tue Aug  7 15:25:29 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:25:29 -0500 
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C2@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.
I have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I want to
replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump off a cliff."
This is a comic example, but I need to do something similar in real life.
How can I do this in Python, running on Unix? 



From grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 22:44:38 2001
From: grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com (Jeff Grimmett)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 19:44:38 -0700
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
Message-ID: <2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9@posting.google.com>

Hi, pythonistas,

I'm trying to come to grips with the issue of dealing with sockets,
or, more precisely, a socket that can accept and process 'n' number of
requests on a particular address.

Right now I'm going the route of opening an inet streaming socket,
binding it to the port, and listen()ing for requests. For example, for
a telnet port:

   s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
   s.bind(('', 23))
   s.listen(1)

... then ... ?  I've tried a number of approaches, but so far all I
can get to work is a single connection at a time, and in most cases
it's good for one recv().

This is an issue I'm going to be looking at in a lot of cases, so I'd
like to iron it out now if I can. Any suggestions on where to start?


From sam at ddmweb.com  Tue Aug  7 11:55:24 2001
From: sam at ddmweb.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:55:24 -0700
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page 
Message-ID: <01080709173100.05233@frock.ddmweb.com>

Lang (bob at tharin.com) wrote:

> The posted script, of course, works perfectly.  But looking back to my
> original posting, I realize I didn't really articulate my problem very
> clearly.
[and then describes the problem of maintaining state across page loads
in a CGI-based web application]

You're on the right track, but you need to get a bit more modular. The
following is based on what I could glean of what your script actually
does, which you are welcome to state more clearly <wink>.

1) Separate the state of the application (i.e., whether you are storing
submitted-but-not-yet-saved-values in hidden fields) from the
presentation logic (what kind of page the user is looking at). Make
each kind of page an object, or at least the return value of a routine.

2) Use the html "value" (simple) or the "name" (more sophisticated) of
the button to tell the system what to expect. Let's say the user makes
a change that needs to be confirmed. The first button might read:
<input type="submit" name="action" value="Change">. In the main routine
of your script, you check to say:

if form['action'].value == 'Change':
    page = ConfirmationPage()

ConfirmationPage puts their input into hidden fields and returns HTML
with a confirmation message and a button that reads:
<input type="submit" name="action" value="Confirm changes">. The main
routine in your script continues:

elif form['action'].value == 'Confirm changes':
    lastDate = saveInput() #after saving, return state information
    page = MainPage(date=lastDate) # the line you were asking for?

to handle the first page view, before the user has entered any info,
the routine might conclude:

else:
    page = MainPage() # no date passed; use default

HTH,
Sam



From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sun Aug  5 18:23:26 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:23:26 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
In-Reply-To: <slrn.pl.9mr75n.df9.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108051406030.27815-100000@bms>

On 5 Aug 2001, Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:
> Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:56:21 +0100, Stephen Horne <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> pisze:
>
> > In any division process where the dividend is not a multiple of the
> > divisor, there will be a remainder involved.
> > """
> >
> > This seems to imply type. If you are working in the set of reals (or
> > rationals, or complex numbers), then any divisor other than zero can
> > be multiplied by some definite value to exactly recreate the dividend.
>
> AFAIK "multiple" means integer multiple, independently of the type.
> For example 0.6 is a multiple of 0.2, and 0.7 is not.

I see too many references to (e.g.) 150%, which only makes sense as a
1.5 multiple of whatever 100% is, to believe multiple implies integer.

> > For me, -(a/b) == (-a)/b is an *obvious* identity to preserve
>
> For me, only when dealing with division without remainter. It doesn't
> necessarily hold for division with remainder. It's an evidence that
> there are two concepts called division involved.

...or, there is one concept called "division", the problems come from
trying to coerce between different representations of numbers that
live in different possible worlds (sorry, I don't now the proper
terminology, but it does appear to be a modal logic problem).

If you view it as `two concepts', you end up with a definition of
division in all possible worlds, and no guarantee that you will be
able to map "division" between them as your numbers move between the
possible worlds (i.e., when the representation changes).... so one
ends up thinking of (e.g.) "truncating" vs. "non-truncating" division
(possibly with as many "vs." pairs as there are combinations of
representations).

If you view it as a single concept, you end up translating the inputs
to a common type, doing division, then translating to the output
type... so any two numbers that can be represented with a common type
can be `divided', and the output can be of the same type as either of
the inputs or of some other type that can also be represented in that
same common type.

Of course, this is all conceptual at the users level, and doesn't
address the `least surprise' problem that PEP-238 is attacking.


I'm starting to think the re-worked numerical model is a must, and
that nothing should be done to the division operator until it is
completely worked out...  It may be the case that a single
operator, translation rules, and a way to specify the output format of
the division operation, is the more flexible and high-level way to go.

I'm torn in 0.5 by PEP-238; the motives are reasonable, but there is
really no way of knowing about the correctness of the proposed
implementation without knowing what the base numerical model is.
But, I guess that's mostly Guido's problem, since he is the one who
may end up re-writing the internals of "/" and "//" (which in my world
would just be a shortcut for (a/int/b)[0], because q,r=a/int/b,
aren't you glad I'm not a language designer ;-) to better work with a
new numerical model.


- Bruce





From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug  5 03:24:30 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 07:24:30 GMT
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041317320.23263-100000@bms> <mailman.996966091.4773.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6cdf04.10723930@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:53:42 -0700, zooko at zooko.com wrote:

>
>I have committed a cleaned up version of the IncreasingTimer which does less
>floating point arithmetic and which contains comments showing exactly what 
>I don't know about floating point.
>
>http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/common/timeutil.py?content-type=text/plain
>
>The relevant excerpt of the source is appended.
>
>Regards,
>
>Zooko
>
>
>class IncreasingTimer:
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.lasttime = time.time() # This stores the most recent answer that we returned from `time()'.
>        self.delta = 0 # We add this to the result from the underlying `time.time()'.
>
>        # How big of an increment do we need to add in order to make the new float greater than the old float?
>        trye = 1.0
>        while (self.lasttime + trye) > self.lasttime:
>            olde = trye
>            trye = trye / 2.0
>        self._TIME_EPSILON = olde
>
>    def time(self):
>        t = time.time() + self.delta
>        lasttime = self.lasttime
>
>        if t <= lasttime:
>            self.delta = self.delta + (lasttime - t) + self._TIME_EPSILON
>            t = lasttime + self._TIME_EPSILON
>
>        # XXX if you were sure that you could generate a bigger float in one pass, you could change
>        # this `while' to an `if' and optimize out a test.
>        while t <= lasttime:
>            # We can get into here only if self._TIME_EPSILON is too small to make the time float "tick over" to a new higher value.
>            # So we (permanently) double self._TIME_EPSILON.
>            # XXX is doubling epsilon the best way to quickly get a minimally bigger float?
>            self._TIME_EPSILON = self._TIME_EPSILON * 2.0
>            # Delta, having smaller magnitude than t, can be incremented by more than t was incremented.  (Up to the old epsilon more.)  That's OK.
>            self.delta = self.delta + self._TIME_EPSILON
>            t = t + self._TIME_EPSILON
>
>        self.lasttime = t
>        return t
>
I'm not sure why you would add a delta if the raw time.time() advances from the previously
returned time, so I didn't, in the following. If it doesn't work, let me know, and we'll fix it ;-)

BTW, if you're giving these times to a scheduler, you might want check on the precision of *its* sense
of time. Chances are good that the lsb on floating point is going to get lost in conversion to
an integer scheduler tick of some kind, so two times from IncreasingTimer might look simultaneous
and get put in a queue in an order you don't like, or get executed by two CPUs at the same time,
or if the dispatcher get control after some delay and finds two tasks past due (even though by
different amounts) and therefore dispatches both for several CPUs. A single CPU slicing back and
forth between a couple of slow threads could even wind up with unpredictable orders of both start and
finish for a couple of threads.

Even if you have a Python loop dispatching tasks from a queue based on floating point time from
an IncreasingTimer instance, you could have the problem if you have multiple worker threads, and
several tasks are overdue at once. Just a thought. Don't know if it applies.


import math, time

class IncreasingTimer:
    def __init__(self):
        self.lasttime = time.time() # Stores the most recent time returned to caller (after this)

    def time(self):
        t = time.time()
        if t <= self.lasttime:
            t = self.lasttime + math.ldexp(1, math.frexp(self.lasttime)[1]-53) #assumes ieee754 double
        self.lasttime = t
        return t



From rupe at metro.yak.net  Fri Aug 10 17:06:27 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 14:06:27 -0700
Subject: Dictionary viewer and editor
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108101306.739764ee@posting.google.com>

Pythoneers:

Are there any programs out there that can take in a dictionary object
of arbitrary depth, and display it in a text or graphical tree format?
For example, a set of nested dictionaries in the form:

my_dict = {'temperature': {'maximum': 100, 'minimum': 32}, 'humidity':
{'current': 63, 'minimum': 42}}

Would be displayed in a form something like:

my_dict
  |
  temperature:
    |   |_ maximum: 100
    |   |_ minimum: 32
    |
    humidity:
       |_ current: 63
       |_ minimum: 42

I took a cursory look around VoP, but didn't see anything.  I could
always just write it, but want to make sure that I'm not re-inventing
the wheel first.
Ideally I'd like a system that'd display a dictionary in this tree
form, then allow you to edit parts of the tree interactively.  If
anyone can point me to one component or the other, I'd be most
grateful.

Thanks,

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net


From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Aug  8 09:23:26 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:23:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: namespace confusion
References: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns90F790619A58duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in 
news:3B7135E2.40701 at herts.ac.uk:

> The problem I am having is I can't access the functfirst() from 
> second.py. It makes no differce if I import it or not. What am I doing 
> wrong or not doing that I should?

The example you posted has several mistakes, so it isn't immediately clear 
which are mistyping and which might be your actual problem.

The spelling of functSecond/functCecond seems to vary, but this probably 
isn't related to your query.

Your first.py contains a call to functfirst, but no actual definition. 
Perhaps you cannot call the function because you haven't defined it?

Alternatively perhaps you have a different first.py that you failed to post 
which really does define the function but has some other lines in it as 
well. If it happens to try to 'import second' then this would also cause 
the problem you have described, because the 'from first import *' in 
second.py will be executed before first.py has created any variables to be 
imported.

But I think the real problem is that you are using 'from module import *'. 
This form of the import statement makes a copy of all the variables that 
exist in another module at the time when the import is executed. This is 
very rarely what you want. It is almost always better to just import the 
module and access the values when you need them. So second.py becomes:

import first

def functSecond():
	first.functfirst() #

and provided you actually define the function in first this call should 
work.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From patrick.fichou at galactica.it  Thu Aug 23 08:37:39 2001
From: patrick.fichou at galactica.it (Patrick)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:37:39 +0200
Subject: REQ : Real.py
Message-ID: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it>

Hi,

Does someone knows where is the 'real.py' module that seems very useful and
fast for number crunching ? The link on the Python Homepage is not valid (
ftp://ftp.python.org/pub/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar ).

Thanks




From fractal97 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 11 15:41:13 2001
From: fractal97 at hotmail.com (vin)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:41:13 GMT
Subject: server question
References: <oG1d7.8274$vp.1265600@news02.optonline.net> <3B74B1B2.47807E5C@engcorp.com> <Qved7.14857$vp.2244576@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <tTfd7.15346$vp.2373342@news02.optonline.net>

Thanks for your help. I got it working now.  I will certainly look into 
what is available, however, I wanted to learn and understand some things 
first before I look into somebody's else code.  Vin


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 18:41:49 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:41:49 -0500
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221501460.32346-100000@math.cudenver.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221607370.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221501460.32346-100000@math.cudenver.edu>
Message-ID: <15236.13613.12810.578878@beluga.mojam.com>

    cary> is simplest if you only want to know about the os module.  To get
    cary> the location of any module do this:

    cary> mod = os
    cary> os.path.dirname(eval(mod.__name__).__file__)

Why the eval?  Why not simply

    os.path.dirname(mod.__file__)

?  Also, note from the subject the question was how to tell if a module was
imported from the standard library.  The os module is almost certainly going
to be found there.  If not, the programmer deserves whatever they have
coming to them (and hopefully knows to expect it).

FWIW, On typical Unix installs, there will be at least three locations that
contain stuff delivered with Python:

    os.path.dirname(os.__file__)
    os.path.dirname(os.__file__) + "/lib-dynload"
    os.oath.dirname(os.__file__) + "/plat-" + sys.platform

All modules in those directories should have a valid __file__ attribute.  In
addition, modules that are statically linked into the interpreter will not
have a __file__ attribute, so you can't really tell if they are part of the
core or a third-party extension that was statically linked into the
interpreter. 

YMMV for non-Unix platforms.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 07:55:46 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:55:46 -0400
Subject: Followup of the compatibility issue of smtplib
References: <mailman.997057809.6324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dzvb7.20642$si.340187@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Dirksen Lau" <dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk> wrote in message
news:mailman.997057809.6324.python-list at python.org...
Hi,

As Steve suggested, I run my script in debug mode, but don't find anything
unusual(the mail still doesn't get to the destination). I attach the dubug
log below, and please point out the trouble spot:

connect: ('smtp.polyu.edu.hk', 25)
reply: '220 hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP service (Netscape Messaging Server
4.15 Pa
tch 2 (built May 30 2000))\015\012'
reply: retcode (220); Msg: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP service (Netscape
Messaging
 Server 4.15 Patch 2 (built May 30 2000))
connect: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP service (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15
Patch
 2 (built May 30 2000))
send: 'ehlo iceman\015\012'
reply: '250-hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk\015\012'
reply: '250-PIPELINING\015\012'
reply: '250-HELP\015\012'
reply: '250-ETRN\015\012'
reply: '250-DSN\015\012'
reply: '250 SIZE 10485760\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk
PIPELINING
HELP
ETRN
DSN
SIZE 10485760
send: 'mail FROM:<icdcliu at polyu.edu.hk> size=5\015\012'
reply: '250 Sender <icdcliu at polyu.edu.hk> and extensions (size=5)
Ok\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Sender <icdcliu at polyu.edu.hk> and extensions
(size=5)
 Ok
send: 'rcpt TO:<dl at yahoo.com>\015\012'
reply: '250 Recipient <dl at yahoo.com> Ok\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Recipient <dl at yahoo.com> Ok
send: 'data \015\012'
reply: '354 Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>\015\012'
reply: retcode (354); Msg: Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>
data: (354, 'Ok Send data ending with <CRLF>.<CRLF>')
send: 'achee'        <<<<<<<<<<<<< !!!!!!!!HERE!!!!!!!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<
send: '\015\012.\015\012'
reply: '250 Message received: GHKSNH00.4FJ\015\012'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: Message received: GHKSNH00.4FJ
data: (250, 'Message received: GHKSNH00.4FJ')
achee
send: 'quit \015\012'
reply: '221 hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP server closing connection\015\012'
reply: retcode (221); Msg: hkpa04.polyu.edu.hk ESMTP server closing
connection

OK, I marked the trouble spot, did you find it? :-)

The major problem seems to be that your body is not RFC822-compliant. Try
putting a few headers in there, followed by a blank line and some text. The
interactions between the client and the server look fine.

regards
 STeve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From warkid at storm.ru  Wed Aug 15 06:01:13 2001
From: warkid at storm.ru (Kerim Borchaev)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:01:13 +0400
Subject: Module Name
Message-ID: <16584.010815@storm.ru>

Now I run my test suite like this ( int module, say, testAll.py ):

------------------

import unittest
suite=unittest.TestSuite()

import MyModule0Name
suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(MyModule0Name))

import MyModule1Name
suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(MyModule1Name))

unittest.TextTestRunner().run(suite)

------------------

what I want is to remove obvious code duplication by refactoring to
something like this:

------------------
import unittest
suite=unittest.TestSuite()

def addModule(suite,'some other args'):
    'some code'

addModule('MyModule0Name')
addModule('MyModule1Name')

unittest.TextTestRunner().run(suite)
------------------

so the question is : How can I implement addModule?

because simple :

def addModule(suite, module):
    import module
    suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(module))

results in : ImportError: No module named module

and

def addModule(suite, module):
    __import__(module)
    suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(module))

doesnt execute any test.  loadTestsFromModule doesn't work - and I
can't understand why...

Thanks in advance,
 Kerim                          mailto:warkid at storm.ru

Have a look http://echelon.bethsoft.com - ????? ?????!

"In theory, practice is easy."





From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Sat Aug 18 05:27:54 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:27:54 GMT
Subject: [Q]python thread speedup?
References: <Pjff7.6823$A3.50220@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3b7e34c7.15069703@news.t-online.de>

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:44:02 -0700, "Seung-won Hwang"
<shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu> wrote:

>I'd appreciate any comments that possibly explain this speedup.
Just a guess: are you perhaps doing I/O in your routine ? I/O (like
reading from disk files and so on) can block the current thread, while
other threads can perform calculations at the same time, provided they
don't do I/O, too.  



From eyal at hyperroll.com  Sat Aug 25 15:03:12 2001
From: eyal at hyperroll.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:03:12 +0300
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <3b856114.272278696@wa.news.verio.net> <slrn.pl.9oesma.g50.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <3b87f64c@news.bezeqint.net>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:

> Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:24:25 GMT, Bengt Richter <bokr at accessone.com> pisze:
> 
>> I.e.,
>>    v[a:+=b]
>> and
>>    v[-=b:a]
>> would be equivalent to
>>    v[a:a+b]
>> and
>>    v[a-b:a]
>> IOW,
>>    op=slice_parameter
>> implies
>>    slice_parameter_value_to_use = the_other_slice_parameter op
>>    slice_parameter
> 
> Since a += b is almost equivalent to a = a+b, a:a+b should be spelled
> a+:b.
IMHO, += is right to introduce, because it represents an abstract concept 
of adding into something.
a : a+b represents the abstract concept of a range that has a start and a 
length, rather than a start and an end.
I don't think, however, that a : a*b, or a:a-b represents some basic 
abstract concept that would be nicely represented by syntax.
I would find it nice to support the notion of describing a range with the 
start and size, rather than the start and end myself, because it is a 
useful concept and found to be an easier alternative (perhaps with a syntax 
like: [a:+b]).
This does not mean that [a:-b] or [a:*b] is legal, however, because 
specifying an end and a size, or a start and an end which is a 
multiplication of the start's index does not represent any useful 
(commonly-used) concept.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 16:39:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:39:32 +0200
Subject: eof?
References: <mailman.997883532.20811.python-list@python.org> <79179cf5.0108151124.14bc63e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9lemlq05q5@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Rupert Scammell" <rupe at metro.yak.net> wrote in message
news:79179cf5.0108151124.14bc63e8 at posting.google.com...
    ...
> I was aware of the readlines() limitation, but I'm wondering how
> xreadlines() differs from using something like for line in
> fileinput.input([file]): process(line), which I've been using instead
> of readlines()?

I think fileinput has been upgraded to use xreadlines or its
equivalent internally.


> Any appreciable performance or mem usage differences here?

You had better measure, otherwise the response may not be
significant for your specific platform.


Alex





From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Wed Aug 29 10:16:22 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:16:22 +1000
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8CF936.4E20B7E8@student.gu.edu.au>

jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:
> 
> So, python simply is the best language ever.
> Ok i heard engough. It's time to get python for me. You just can buy  it in
> a shop, can't you? Are all the special thingies included? Nwa, i'm just
> going to try it! I guess you'll see me here a lot the coming months.

If you have internet connection, download it for almost-free from
sourceforge.net/projects/python.
All the standard libraries are included with python, and they're pretty
comprehensive. The extensions you may later become interested in are:

PIL - python image library. Very cool if you need to play with images.
Numeric - stronger, faster, better numerical arrays - only REALLY needed
if you're a computational physisist/chemist/other_weeny_type_like_me.

wxPython, pygtk, pyqt, pyfox etc. - a whole slather of GUI programming
libraries. A perfectly decent GUI ships with python, Tkinter, and on
windows you've got the hooks into the windows GUI.

*chuckles* After you master the basic syntax, the next learning curve is
to learn all the names of the python modules that provide what you want.

Watch the news group, especially responses to other beginners like you
are, and *grins* keep a python interpreter window open so you can try
out responses for yourself. Welcome!
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 03:47:32 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 00:47:32 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998529994.20758.python-list@python.org> <7xbsl7a167.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998573375.21058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xofp5j3vv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
>     Paul> That's for sure--there's a large literature of GC research that
>     Paul> goes back for decades.  It's not appropriate to ignore everything
>     Paul> that's been tried.
> 
> I don't think anything's been ignored.  It's just that nothing made it into
> the language beyond the Neil's cyclical GC stuff.

For now, if cyclical structures are GC'd, that should be enough, given
the general design of the interpreter.  Someday a higher performance
implementation may need a fancier GC.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 22 05:14:29 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 02:14:29 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
Message-ID: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead
of Lisp-style garbage collection?  As Python gets used for more large
application development, it gets troublesome to make the programmer
worry about whether the data has cycles.  Also, using a compacting GC
helps localize memory references, speeding up the program by improving
cache performance.  As CPU's get faster and memory doesn't, the cycle
cost of a cache miss continues to increase.  So maybe the GC
implementation should be revisited at some point.


From sill at optonline.net  Sat Aug  4 17:21:30 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:21:30 GMT
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
Message-ID: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

Hello,

Is there some way to get aterm (and other terms) window dimension(s)
without curses? I tried (so far) commands.getoutput("echo $LINES") but
it doesn't return anything when used in a program, although it does
work from an interpreter.. what gives? I also tried this:

stdscr = curses.initscr()
self.height, self.width = stdscr.getmaxyx()
curses.endwin()

it *does* work but if I maximize the window and use the function that
runs these lines, the program stops accepting any further input.

I'd prefer to avoid putting the entire program in curses interface
if at all possible, because this is just the only thing I need and
I'm not very familiar with curses (and it looks rather complex).


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Aug 21 04:13:14 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:13:14 +1000
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EF1@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

[snip lots of stuff that I agree with]

IMO you should really only go to an update server when the user requests it.
Have a prominent "Check updates" button ... Personally, I much prefer apps
to simply bring up the "downloads" or "updates" web page in the default
browser - then I can read the release notes (if any) and choose whether to
apply the update.

> Code that does automatic updating is very tricky.  There are too
> many potential security holes in it.  The only way I've seen
> it done that seems safe is with some sort of crypto signatures,
> but even that has its own problems.  (Eg, is the secret key on the
> machine accessible to the world?)

This is one of the few relatively simple parts of an automated update
process. Who cares if the downloaded update is intercepted and read? What
you want to verify is that it is valid when received - i.e. sent from a
valid source, not garbled and not tampered with. Signing is what is wanted
in this case.

So, build a public key into the downloader application, and encrypt the
content to download with the corresponding private key. Part of the content
should include a checksum (if you're particularly paranoid, several
checksums using different algorithms in different places in the stream). If
the checksum(s) match the data, you can be pretty damn sure that you got
what you requested, and that it came from a valid source.

For secure downloads, have the downloading application send the server a
one-off public key with which to encrypt the data stream. Then decrypt with
the server's public key (removing signing) and the one-off private key.
Still not perfect, since at the very least you need to keep the data used to
generate the one-off public and private keys in memory until the download is
complete, but there aren't going to be very many people who (a) can get that
data out of your machine and (b) have the algorithm to generate the public
and private keys required...

I now expect some crypto experts to slap me with a big fish ...

Tim Delaney



From spahievi at vega.bg  Thu Aug  2 16:26:02 2001
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:26:02 +0300
Subject: C/Cygwin/Python
In-Reply-To: <20010802145452.B393@dothill.com>
References: <20010802145452.B393@dothill.com>
Message-ID: <1062249965.20010802232602@vega.bg>

8/2/2001, 21:54:52, Jason Tishler wrote:

[...]
>> As I recall the whole point of
>> special instruction for no-cygwin python extension was that only in this case
>> they can be loaded into the standard python.exe

JT> Yes, the above is correct.

>> and you do not have to
>> recompile the whole distribution. Is this right (meaning that you do compile
>> the whole distribution)?

JT> Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "recompile the whole
JT> distribution."

use --complier=mingw32 which is gcc with msvcrt runtime (same as
python)

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev




From jschmitt at vmlabs.com  Fri Aug 10 17:02:26 2001
From: jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:02:26 -0700
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
Message-ID: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B682A@eden.vmlabs.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at home.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 1:32 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
> 
> 
> [John Schmitt]
> > I am an admin on this machine.
> 
> If you're an Admin but don't know why your box can't run a 
> 16-bit program,
> you probably shouldn't be an Admin <wink>.  This shouldn't be 

Ah.  I think I'm with ya.  <wink>

> happening in
> "a normal" Win2K setup.
> 
> > ...
> > Is there a way of switching back and forth between 2.1 and 2.2?
> 
> Sorry, I don't know what you're asking.  If you install them 

No need to be sorry.  Indeed, *I'm* sorry.  What I meant was, if I have a
Python program in my %PATH% somewhere, say

c:\bin\foo.py

and I'm launch that program from the command prompt like this:

d:\myproject\skunkworks\> foo

(I have %PATHEXT% set correctly)

I'd like to be able to set a switch somewhere that decides whether to use
ActiveState 2.1, python.org 2.2a1, 2.2a2, etc.  Since you have several
Python installations going at the same time, perhaps you can share how you
manage all these installations.

> into different
> directories, what else do you think *might* be needed?  

Um, %PYTHONHOME%, %PYTHONPATH% etc might need adjusting.

[...my painful installer babble omitted...]

John

Thanks for your help.

BTW, is your <wink> emoticon overloaded?  I'm not completely confident that
I grok what it is meant to convey.  Can you help me out with that too?



From markus at schabi.de  Mon Aug 27 05:29:09 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:29:09 +0200
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
References: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com> <9m31f2026s8@enews4.newsguy.com> <5285736.frOyU7HbjW@lunix.schabi.de> <9md10h01g1e@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <2005152.A9gRusQuhb@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> schrub:

>> This lets me to the following conclusions:
>> - Your Machine speed seems to be in the 500Mhz Athlon class :-)
> 
> Peculiar indeed -- it's a 300MHz Pentium-2 running NT4 (lots
> of RAM though, and a very good overall implementation -- it's
> a HP Kayak box).

An additional point may be that your Python may have be compiled with 
better optimizations.

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to 
do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein


From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Fri Aug 10 12:01:14 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:01:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: xmltools 1.3.1
Message-ID: <slrn9n81aa.1m1.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

XmlTools 1.3.1 has just been released.

Python XmlTools is a set of high level tools to help using XML in Python.
It features two pyGTK widgets, XmlTree and XmlEditor, which can
respectively display and edit an XML document in a graphical fashion.

This releases fixes some minor unicode related bugs that we had missed
when releasing 1.3, as well as a packaging issue preventing people to use
it out-of-the-box.

Please visit http://www.logilab.org/xmltools/ for more information.

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From wware at world.std.com  Wed Aug 22 16:10:54 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:10:54 GMT
Subject: Interesting Segfault...  Or not?
References: <slrn9o80md.if.m-turk@dhcp101054.res-hall.nwu.edu>
Message-ID: <GIHK26.Fq9@world.std.com>

Matthew Turk (m-turk at nwu.edu) wrote:
> Does this mean I'm not decrementing a reference I ought to?  ...
> Thanks - if anybody has any ideas, that is!

Two thoughts. First, gdb will treat you a lot more kindly if you
rebuild Python with debugging turned on, using "-g" as one of your
CFLAGS.

Second, I once came up with a clever hack to help debug the kinds
of reference counting problems you mention. It's here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&rnum=2&selm=G18tKx.IJC%40world.std.com

Hoping it will be helpful to you.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Sun Aug 19 16:21:39 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:21:39 -0400
Subject: Python COM local server as .exe possible?
In-Reply-To: <998210937.157.99872.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B7FE793.23967.42B4CEE@localhost>

Can someone tell if I can expect to do this conversion with py2exe, 
freeze or another products of this kind?

Thanks for your advice.



From dcinege at psychosis.com  Wed Aug 15 19:18:19 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:18:19 -0400
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
Message-ID: <3B7B033B.B564DB71@psychosis.com>

I searched various archives and it appears there is no provision to alter
the actual argv[] strings of the python process. Has this not changed
yet?

I'm very surprised python has this (severe) limitation.

How does one exec a python program with a password on the cmdline?
Create a daemon or child process with a specific process name?
I guess you can't. Time to start looking to patch the python
source me thinks...



From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 12:54:06 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:54:06 GMT
Subject: PythonWin/Visual SourceSafe Integration
References: <8q8j7.70054$54.3713716@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3b8d1dd4.1875843@news.t-online.de>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:09:03 -0400, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>PythonWin seems to have forgotten about VSS on my Windoze machine.
>
>Until yesterday (which is to say, it worked fine the last time I tried
>it...) I could open a source file in PythonWin, and it would detect an
>appropriate mssccprj.scc file and check files out on demand. Now I just see
>a status message telling me:
>
>    Document is read-only, and no source-control system is configured
>
>As far as I know I haven't made any chages to PythonWin. The problem appears
>to be that
>
>     GetEditorOption("Source Control Module", "")
>
>in document.py is no longer returning an importable module name, but I might
>be off-track here.
>
>Can someone point me in the right direction and save me some debugging time?

1) Have you looked in the registry under

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Python 2.1\Python for Win32\Editor\Source
Control Module ? It should probably read pywin.framework.editor.vss

2) Add debug statements to
\python21\pythonwin\pywin\framework\editor\vss. The module gets
imported at a later time. 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 17:23:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:23:10 +0200
Subject: simple question about classes
References: <3b783669.0@216.0.152.7>
Message-ID: <9l9gn102ufh@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Scott Hathaway" <scott_hathaway at riskvision.com> wrote in message
news:3b783669.0 at 216.0.152.7...
> If I have a class, is there a way to iterate through the name of all of
the
> properties (public variables) of the class which would include public vars
> that were added at the time of instantiation?

Yes, of course -- but your example show that you want to
iterate on the attributes of an *instance*, not really those
of the *class* itself.


> class a():

Wrong syntax (empty parentheses forbidden here, sigh).

>     getPublicVars(self):
>         # loop here that prints each variable and it's value
            for varname in a.__dict__.keys():
                print varname, getattr(a,varname)

This gives only the attributes of the instance -- no check on whether
they're callable (methods rather than properties) and no check on
further attributes that belong to the class or its bases.  It's easy
to restrict the list by forbidding callables:
            for varname in a.__dict__.keys():
                value = getattr(a, varname)
                if not callable(value):
                    print varname, value
and it's not too hard to similarly check self.__class__ and
(recursively upwards) its __bases__ while avoiding duplicates,
but it starts to get hairy -- maybe dir() in 2.2 will do that for
you (Tim and Guido were mooting that as a possibility, and
clearly it WOULD be handy here).

You do specify ''public'' properties so you may want to filter
further:
            for varname in a.__dict__.keys():
                if varname.startswith('_'): continue
                value = getattr(a, varname)
                if not callable(value):
                    print varname, value


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 17:30:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:30:45 +0200
Subject: passing FILE pointers to a non-MSVC++ compiled extension type???
References: <e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f@posting.google.com> <9l0cgv0229h@enews4.newsguy.com> <e71960c5.0108111158.6ea4e650@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l486j021e9@enews4.newsguy.com>

"doug" <doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e71960c5.0108111158.6ea4e650 at posting.google.com...
    ...
> 1) what is the correct way to construct the Python file-like object?
> Having looked at the documentation and the source, i put together:
>
>    PyObject* py_file = PyFile_FromFile(fp, "somename", "DUNNO", NULL);
>    PyFile_WriteString(char_pointer, py_file);
>    Py_XDECREF(py_file);
>
> which does in fact work fine.  but what do the name, mode and close
> arguments of PyFile_FromFile() actually do?  i dont want to accidently
> create a bug that ill never be able to track down in 6 months.

The name, mode and close arguments to PyFile_FromFile are
saved in the slots f_name, f_mode and f_close of the Python
file object.  .name and .mode become attributes you can
access from your Python code; f_close, if not null, is a
function that's automatically called when the Python file
object is being finalized.  To be pedantic I guess you should
pass "w" as the mode argument -- it's not used today (and I
doubt it will be used in the future), but why not do it right.


> 2) the first argument to PyFile_WriteString() is a char*.  shouldnt
> this be a const char* type?  surely PyFile_WriteString() doesnt need
> to make any changes to the string.  i tried to be const correct and
> pass in a const char* but it generated a compiler error.

Right, no doubt.  But that argument is passed to fputs, and I
guess having it as char* rather than const char* makes life
easier when dealing with non-const-correct oldish C libraries.
(I think it could be changed now that Python requires an ISO
compliant C compiler and library, though).


Alex





From schen at interia.pl  Sat Aug  4 06:06:22 2001
From: schen at interia.pl (schen)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 12:06:22 +0200
Subject: Python for AIX?
Message-ID: <3B6BC91E.7040000@interia.pl>

Does anyone know where I can find python binaries compiled for AIX? Thanks.



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 03:56:15 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 00:56:15 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com> <7x66bkjzbj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lo5uc2g3p@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7xg0ahj3hc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> I remember there used to be a freely downloadable adjunct to
> Visual C++ to let it produce code for Windows CE, which as you
> explain later is your target environment -- I dunno if it's still
> available and if so on what terms.  One would have to start by
> porting the Gnu MP library though -- presumably in the C-only
> version (CE targets quite a few different CPU's, right?)... maybe
> a Python fork to expose a couple of readonly properties and a
> factory function for long/binary-string interconversion would be
> easier (of course, one would still have to have a C compiler for
> WinCE to rebuild the forked Python, sigh).

I've started to lose interest in WinCE.  I mainly want to run on a
Compaq IPAQ handheld, but it turns out that there's a pretty good
Linux port for it, so I'll probably just write for that.  If and when
I get enough users that WinCE becomes important, I'll worry about it
then and acquire WinCE dev tools if I really have to.  But I generally
I wouldn't want to mess with building Python for WinCE.  I'd just try
to write in Python portably and use an existing WinCE Python port.


From cnetzer at Stanford.EDU  Thu Aug 23 19:52:26 2001
From: cnetzer at Stanford.EDU (Chad Franklin Netzer)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:52:26 GMT
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <3b856114.272278696@wa.news.verio.net> <WTfh7.13457$54.509054@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9m44vq$c1q$1@usenet.Stanford.EDU>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:

>If I can remember my Icon correctly its slicing mechanism recognised signs
>as significant, so

>    seq[a:+b]

>meant take a slice of length b starting at position a, whereas

>    seq[a:b]


It seems some people missed the point of the post from Grant
(gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk).  Perhaps the british humor was too droll.
In any case, I apologize if this post appears pretentious, but I'll
explain the joke (those newer to python probably missed it).

Grant suggested we "adopt" a notation of v[5 :][: 2], rather than Juan's
(the original poster) v[5 # 2].  He then suggested that he write up a
proposal for this "new operator". :)

As Will Ware pointed out, this already does (almost) EXACTLY what the
original poster wanted.  The v[5:] returns a new sequence that begins at
the fifth element of the original (Hmmm, The Fifth Element... silly
movie.), and the [:2] then truncates it after the second element.

So rather than v[a # b] use v[a:][:b].
And rather than v[a # -b] use v[:a][-b:]

Therefore, there are already ways to accomplish what the original poster
wanted, but they involve slightly more intricate and verbose notation (as
well as an understanding of all the forms of slicing.)  In both cases,
they allow for expressions a or b to be evaluated once, inline.

I actually use this idiom semi-frequently in text processing, although
rarely (if ever) do I clump the two slices back to back like this.

So, Juan, does that help answer your original question?  It can be done,
just as you want, with a few extra characters (and careful ordering of the
slice)

Humbly yours,

-- 
Chad Netzer
chad.netzer at stanfordalumni.org
-- 
Chad Netzer
chad.netzer at stanfordalumni.org



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 03:43:00 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:43:00 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <mailman.999153945.27627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mkqq6017s9@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Richard Jones" <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.999153945.27627.python-list at python.org...
> On Thursday 30 August 2001 15:23, Gerson Kurz wrote:
> > 2) It would be nice if you could insert "preprocessor plugins" in the
> > python interpreter: python scripts, that preprocess the text before
> > interpreted. You can always add eval()/exec() statements to your code,
> > but it would be nice if they were to be added automatically. Then, a
> > syntax change like the one described in 1) could be easily added to
> > the interpreter for those who would like to have it. But, maybe thats
> > already possible and I only don't know of it ?
>
> I'm not sure it's exactly what you want, but have a look at the rexec
module
> in the standard library...

That has more to do with _execution_ (it helps you build a
sandbox for untrusted code) and very little to do with
syntax sugar.  Rather, I think that what you'd need to
satisfy Gerson's request is some kind of import-hook
magic -- but still, that would only work "blackmagically"
for stuff you IMPORT, not for the main script itself.

It *may* be possible to do something with sitecustomize.py
but I don't believe it gets called at the right time
for that to work.


Alex





From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Aug 28 14:42:37 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:42:37 +0200
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com> <Y0gh7.13490$54.514184@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7x66be2vk9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B890102.1A772D0E@stroeder.com> <7xzo8l7kco.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Citi7.44883$54.2491100@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7xu1yttevt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B8BE61D.5B3FB9D7@stroeder.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> > > Browser CRL checking (at least in MSIE 5.x) works by checking incoming
> > > certificates against a CRL at the CA, from what I understand.
> >
> > That may well be the case, but to check the CRL a browser is under no
> > obligation to report the URL for which the check is being performed. So you
> > can't track people by access to the CRL like DoubleClick do with access to
> > ad graphics (and even that only works when the client sends the "Referer:"
> > HTTP header).
> 
> I'm talking about what browsers actually do, not what they might
> conceivably be programmed to do.  No they don't report the specific
> URL.  But they do have to identify the certificate, which says what
> the host is.  That's generally most of the interesting info.

1. This is highly off-topic here: Followup-To set.

2. The browser downloads sometimes (usually not for each hit) the
CRL as a whole from the CA's repository and examines it to determine
if the server cert was revoked. It does not ask for the validity of
a specific cert. You might be talking about something like OCSP
which is another thing (although some people mess these things up).

Please, since the PKIX stuff is complicated enough try to be as
precise as possible or do not write something about it. Readers
might get confused easily otherwise.

Ciao, Michael.


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 29 12:39:03 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:39:03 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be> <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net> <9miud701gsp@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <2163005.EU6C4ouqhe@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> schrub:


>> And i've got one more question. What's the limit of python. What can
>> you
> not
>> make in it. Vb stops somewere, c++ stops later. Weere stops python?
> 
> VB (and Python) stop where there's no runtime environment to
> support them (C++, like C, is designed to be able to do without
> a support environment -- it does need a *compiler* to prepare
> the program for execution, but once compiled and prepared the
> program can run on the environments it was prepared for, which
> may be "such and such machine without any other software AT
> ALL", e.g. "embedded" applications).
> 
> Say you'd like a little program of yours to run in the browser
> of anybody who looks at your site.  VB will stop at any browser
> that lacks VB runtime support (Internet Explorer, recent versions,
> has it, albeit, reasonably, limited to the VBScript subset;
> Netscape and Opera do not; etc, etc).  Python will stop at any
> browser that lacks Python runtime support (and, apart from the
> old Grail browser that was written entirely in Python, I know
> of no browser that *COMES WITH* Python runtime support -- you
> could easily ADD such support to Internet Explorer, or Mozilla 6,
> since they're highly-modular browsers, but you probably cannot
> count on the visitors to your webpage having done so!).

If you use Jython and AWT as windowing toolkit (maybe swing is also 
possible in current browsers), than you can ship a carefully designed 
python application as .jar, even as an applet, if you want to. There's 
seemless interaction between Python, Java and most other JVM compilable 
languages (http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.html seems 
to have a rather complete list on those).
 

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Aug  8 12:54:35 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:54:35 GMT
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <f9ec7.101122$Cy.14802622@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

<gyromagnetic at excite.com> wrote in message
news:3b716759.126576344 at 127.0.0.1...
> Hi,
> I am a relative newbie to Python, so this question may be quite naive.
> Is there a way to 'map' methods to a list of items?
>
> For a simple example, suppose that I want to convert the items in a
> list to uppercase. Currently, I might do something like
> >>> import string
> >>> val=['abc', 'def', 'ghi']
> >>> map(string.upper, val)
> ['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']
>
> Is there a way to map the .upper method to these items? Something
> like, for example,
> >>>>map(?.upper, val).

Did you try the obvious thing? It should work. For example:

   class Monty:
       def spammify(self, text):
           return "spam & %s" % text

   l = ["eggs", "baked beans", "sausage"]
   m = Monty()

   print map(m.spammify, l)
   # or equivalently
   print [m.spammify(item) for item in l]

produces:

   ['spam & eggs', 'spam & baked beans', 'spam & sausage']
   ['spam & eggs', 'spam & baked beans', 'spam & sausage']

Or did you mean something completely different?

-tim






From gmcm at hypernet.com  Thu Aug 23 07:57:04 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 11:57:04 GMT
Subject: freezing a python script
References: <mailman.998474614.21682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns910650EBE1016gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194>

"Antoine JOSSERAND" <antoine at 2le.net> wrote: 

 
> I have a problem to make an executable file from a python script. I
> tried with py2exe and McMillan's installer and I had the same problem
> with both. The .exe file which I obtain works fine on my computer but
> not an another machine. It says "DLL load failed" despite the DLL's are
> in the c:\windows\system directory and in my program's directory. 

That's not much information to go on. Most likely, there are version
incompatibilities at work. I've seen this, for example, when building
on a Win2K box and deploying on NT or Win9x. If you find any MS dlls
in the program's directory, removing them may well fix the problem.

- Gordon


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 06:06:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:06:16 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996682083.19421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kb8mq02bd2@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote in message
news:mailman.996682083.19421.python-list at python.org...
    ...
"""
> Back to Python -- programming in Python has always felt to
> me a *LOT* like generic programming

Yup. Only, in Python it's very implicit.
"""
...just about as in C++, except more so:-).


"""
The nice thing about Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
on the generic parameters are spellt out explicitly. For most
"""
The problem with Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
on the generic parameters are to be spelled out explicitly.  Type
inference (as in Haskell) or signature-based polymorphism (as in
C++ templates and in Python) is smooth indeed (although the ability
to state out loud what you think the compiler will infer, if it
could be done without really adding any significant complexity,
would be a nice extra).

The issue from my POV is: what defines "a type", except the
signatures of that subset of its interfaces that a given generic
component is actually using?  Presumably the programming-as-
contracting preconditions/postconditions/invariants on those
interfaces -- but those are *runtime*-checked, and even that
hardly catches a significant portion of the "type semantics".

Consider the issue of: what predicate-parameter P can I pass to
a generic such as C++'s std::sort.  Of course, I have some
signature constraints -- P(x,y) must be callable for certain
x and y and return something usable as a boolean value; C++
catches errors about this at compile-time, while Python, if
I try calling mylist.sort(unsuitableP) where unsuitableP is
not callable with two parameters that are items of mylist,
will only catch it at run-time.  Having the check happen at
compile-time gives me the error diagnostics slightly earlier
(5 to 10 minutes, if I use a sensible testing policy) AND
makes it easy for C++ to generate stupendous code (if P is
inline or can be inlined).

But that barely scratches the surface!  The REAL conditions
that define the type of P are:
    not P(x,x) for any x
    P(x, y) implies not P(y, x) for any x, y
    P(x, y) and P(y, z) implies P(x, z) for any x, y, z
Note the universal-quantifier 'any' liberally used here:
it's not something quaint and peculiar, it's TYPICAL of
real type-constraints, making them uncheckable in the
general case, even at runtime (much less compiletime).

THIS is the kind of thing I'd really like to express in a
compiler-usable way!  THIS is the kind of thing that would
make my programs MUCH clearer to human readers, and really
get mileage out of type-checking.  What, if anything, the
compiler is able to do with such a hypothetically formalized
expression of my real design intentions is a minor issue.

If *sometimes* a runtime check (or, joy!, even a compile
time one, saving me several precious extra minutes) can be
inferred from such type-constraints (maybe only in some
kind of debug-mode, if, as likely, checks would burden
the program), then great.  If *sometimes* the compiler is
able to optimize away some computation by *relying* on my
assertions, then super (maybe only in some kind of optimize
mode, if, as likely, it would slow down compilation a lot).

But existing languages appear to me to have things
backwards.  They *start* from what they'll be able to
check, and/or able to exploit for optimization, and
use THAT criterion to decide what subset of my design
intentions I'm allowed (or, more often, required) to
formally express in the language.

That's like the drunkard looking for his keys under
the streetlamp, even though he knows he's dropped them
at the other end of the road, because it's too dark
over there...:-).  A language should let me say what
I mean, and do of that what it can.  Compilers and
supporting tools do evolve, old applications tend to
live forever; basing what a language lets me express
(or forces me to express) on today's compiler and
tool technology is back-asswards.

Given the incomplete and unsatisfactory state of the
way various languages let me (or rather force me to)
express my design intentions, I'd rather do away with
all the complexity, and just use Python (or C++
templates).  Give me an URL to a usable language that
lets me express the most basic typing constraints,
such as symmetry or antisymmetry, reflexivity or
antireflexivity, and transitivity, as above, and I'll
be more than happy to give it a try.  But Ada, Eiffel,
C++ (what it DOES do for typechecking), Java, and,
sigh, even Haskell, don't really cut the mustard today.
Therefore, Python's *simplicity* wins the day, as
you say...:

"""
application areas, Python still wins hands down, though.
"""
I agree, but I hope you can now better see WHY I do
so fully agree.  Complication must bring a payoff that
offsets its undeniable costs.  Today's type-checking,
as applied in the above-listed languages, doesn't, in
terms of useful earlier-detection of errors -- it's
little use to find out about an error 10 minutes
earlier, if it takes me 15 more minutes to write the
code snippet because of extra language complication.
Most interesting checks happen at runtime if at all,
and in fact most important properties can't even be
stated formally in the languages, because of a lack
of existential and universal quantifiers.

Today's typechecks DO help hugely in terms of
optimization, even though Self, the Scheme compiler
stalin, and good Common Lisp compilers all prove
that static typing is nowhere near a NEED to get
such optimizations, that type inference even in
a hugely dynamic language can get there too.  But
C++'s generics are an excellent example of the way
lack of type-constraint declaration in no way
inhibits type-based optimization -- given signature
based polymorphism, type-inference in any actual
instantiation of a generic IS pretty trivial:-).


Alex





From fig at localhost.localdomain  Thu Aug  9 13:58:40 2001
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:58:40 -0000
Subject: newbie-ness upgrade woes
References: <mailman.997372035.3246.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n5k7n.900.fig@localhost.localdomain>

You might want to be careful about replacing Python 1.5.2.  I believe
RedHat includes this because it has some other tools built on the
older Python.  The trick is to pass some options to configure telling
it to install python as "python2" instead.  Then you can choose
whether you want to run 1.52 or 2.1.

However, you might just consider using Sean Reifschneider's RPM, which
are already configured to install this way and not to interfere with
the 1.5.2 Python used by RedHat.

  http://www.python.org/2.1/rpms.html

On RedHat, I like to build and install from source RPMS whenever they
are available.


-Stephen




From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 27 18:04:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:04:26 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <9md4o601ll6@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEGDLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> The source code for MSVCRT.DLL comes with every installation
> of VC++6 (perhaps not with the cheap one for beginners, but
> surely Professional and up).  You don't get to see the sources
> for the underlying operating systems (quite likely very
> different ones for the 95/98/ME lineage vs the NT/2000/XP
> one, of course:-), but the C runtime's sources often help.

Not much in this case -- _locking gets mapped into LockFile, but restricted
to 32-bit offsets and lengths.  Since we don't have the source for LockFile,
no progress.




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 19 18:13:13 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:13:13 -0400
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python Path Blues)
In-Reply-To: <tnqeusm7gm6f8c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELMLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Maan M. Hamze]
> What is important here is that this can be a BIG turn-off for beginners.
> It took me more than a day of tinkering with the registry while trying to
> make DCOracle2 and mxODBC packages for Python run correctly.

I haven't tried either.  Did their docs tell you to do this?

> Then I discovered it was all a matter of adding PYTHONPATH into the
> environment [under Windows]

That's one way to get it to work <wink>.

> ...
> 1.  Upon installing Python (PythonWin or the regular Python
> distribution for Windows), the registry itself is updated with the
> lib path,

It is, but please note that Python never *looks* at this setting in normal
operation.  It's there for the esoteric benefit of advanced Windows uses
that end up calling Python as a side-effect of doing something else.
Normally, you click on a .py file, or run Python from a DOS prompt directly,
and then Python doesn't even look at the registry.

> but NO PYTHONPATH setting is created in the environment.

In normal operation, it isn't needed.  In abnormal <wink> operation, the
registry is used.  PYTHONPATH isn't needed for anything we distribute, so of
course we don't set it.

> This is MISLEADING, since it appears that every other thrid party
> package is using this environment setting.

distutils manages to install things without mucking with PYTHONPATH, and
that's how it should be.

> If it is surprising Tim Peters :) I do not know how new comers to
> Python would figure something like this out.

The installation instructions that come with a package should explain how to
install it.  Sounds like you hit some bad luck.  I'm surprised by PYTHONPATH
because I always *expect* it to override everything else entirely, but it
doesn't (see below) -- there's simply too much magic for my tastes.

> 2.  I noticed that Python for Win installation adds Class ID's to the
> default Library paths in the registry.  Why?
> ...

Have to leave this one to ActiveState, but it doesn't sound like it's
causing you a problem.

> 3.  All this is leading to a PYTHONPATH setting in the registry, and a
> PYTHONPATH setting in the environment.  Do they have to be in synch?

No, but you shouldn't normally muck with either of them.  The PYTHONPATH
envar, if it's set, is always *added* to all other paths Python deduces.
The registry setting is used only in desperation, if Python is invoked in
such a way that it can't figure out where python.exe lives (this can happen,
e.g., if Python is effectively embedded via COM, and the Python DLL in the
system directory is the part of Python that's first activated -- then Python
resorts to the registry to find its libraries, as it's got no other clue).




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 07:19:34 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:19:34 +0200
Subject: Windows and file input in Python
References: <9ml0uf$cuv$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mnrs712i70@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Jeff Grimmett" <grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61 at posting.google.com...
    ...
> 2. Get Cygwin from Cygnus Solutions -- it includes a BASH shell for
> Windows. The BASH shell offers more interactivity and better command
> line editing of commands.

Cygwin also currently comes with the latest released Python, 2.1.1 ...
enabled for readline, etc, all nice and Unix-like!-)  Recommended!!!


Alex





From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 12:13:53 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:13:53 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3B7013C1.60403@herts.ac.uk>

ok, thats a bit more eligant (and efficient) than my attempt in my reply 
to Hans :). You really think that can be written in "far fewer lines"?

thanks alot

blobby


I have no idea whether a list
 > comprehension in place of the second (double)
 > loop would be faster, because they have sometimes
 > turned out to be slower in places where you'd
 > think they'd be faster.)

What is a list comprehension, just out of interest :), I am always 
looking to reduce my ignorance.

Cheers blobby




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug  4 14:38:00 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:38:00 -0400
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <3B6C4108.F2D51223@engcorp.com>

William Annis wrote:
> 
> Now I regularly have to rewrite or at least try to
> fix the tools that worked with 15 machines but now fall down: a mass
> of shell scripts, C and perl glommed together with duct tape, caffeine
> and cheap, grad-student labor.
[...]
>         Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
> system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
> etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
> *infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."  
[...]
> Of course there are free various tools that do these sorts of things
> out there, but they don't exactly play well together, if at all.  I
> have ideas on how communication should work, and though I have avoided
> the XML kool-aid up to now, I'm willing to concede XML-RPC might be
> useful here.

XML is not kool-aid, it's an elixir: "good for what ails ye'" :-)

You are describing a system in which, I believe, XML is well 
suited to play a role.  Its primary advantage is as a standard for
inter-application communication, which is a problem at the heart
of your situation.  

Since the interfaces between components in a complex system have 
far more effect on its characteristics than do the individual 
components, start by addressing the design of the interfaces.  
This also allows you to partition the problem, which will be 
a necessary step in implementing something under your own 
constraints (cost, relatively unclear requirements, 
and not disrupting current operations).

I would start by making the decision to standardize on XML 
as a representation for *all* your various data sources and
sinks, whether that means storing the data in raw XML, or 
just providing converters to change to or from XML so you
can continue to work with your existing formats until the
process is "complete" (whatever that means).  This will 
initially feel like it will be more cumbersome than, say,
simple text files, but once you are able to dispose of
a dozen custom parsing routines, all bug-ridden whether you
know it or not, you will start to see benefits.

Once this step is accomplished, you could focus on specific
components or subsystems, one at a time.  Take the worst
problems and rewrite them as desired.  Use Python and its
XML support to smooth over existing rough areas.  Use it
to glue in (cheap) tools which can serve your purpose in
other areas, Python-based or not.  Migrate to using a web
interface for all your front-end needs, whether accepting
data input from you or users, or generating reports.  

Over time you will find you gradually eliminate the last
traces of entire technologies in your system.  You will
eventually rewrite or replace the last Perl script.  
You will no longer have shell scripts that aren't in
Python.  You will notice that your support costs have 
dropped dramatically as you cut out the overhead of
these additional technologies.  

You will then realize that for the first time you 
actually have enough capacity to think about 
_adding_ functionality for the first time in years.
You will start to clean up your backlog of "minor"
support requests, and also see that your todo list
has items dropping off it weekly as you realize
you needed to do them only as a side effect of the 
incredible complexity of your previous situation.
Life will be good and you'll remember you have
kids and need to eat regularly to survive.

This exercise in Utopythian thinking brought to 
you by the letters X, M and L. :-)

I guess my point is that I believe you could start
to solve many of your problems by the application
of a few basic principles:

 1. Partition the problem: in this case the problem
    is the whole system, and only by partitioning with
    a standard interlanguage (XML) can you break
    the problem down enough to begin effectively
    attacking individual pieces of it.  Until you
    do this, the problem remains too large to handle.

 2. Reduce overhead: in this case you probably are
    bogged down by having many times more technologies
    in use than you could get by with.  After
    partitioning, begin reducing the number of 
    redundant technologies.  You can also do this 
    by adding new technologies selectively, where
    they replace several older technologies or
    have reduced support costs.  Using the web
    as your sole interface (except for text editors
    for some internal work) is an example.
    (I'll never understand why aggressive 
    technology management is considered a Level 5
    practice in the CMM: it should be the first!)

 3. Short iterations: from XP, in this case since
    you have an almost intractable problem and 
    limited resources, you should continually set
    and achieve very small goals and constantly
    adapt your game plan.  The traditional approach
    of building another monolithic or all-encompassing
    infrastructure is so often doomed to fail that
    we should concede It Doesn't Work and try some 
    other techniques tuned for our persistent lack 
    of a clear idea of what we are really trying 
    to accomplish.

I'm rambling.  I'll leave now. :)

> --
> William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
> annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
> Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org

Do vi ankorau komprenas la avantaghojn de interlingvoj, 
kiel XML, chu ne?  Ne necesas, ke mi konvinku vin. :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From vimakefile at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 15:52:47 2001
From: vimakefile at yahoo.com (Michael Robin)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:52:47 -0700
Subject: Digest Number 2945
In-Reply-To: <996830210.716.30058.l10@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <DHEEKAFNPOKNEBEBLCIACECJCCAA.vimakefile@yahoo.com>

I'll be here this weekend (except for tomo during the day)
and most of next week...

How are the preperations going???

m

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list at yahoogroups.com [mailto:python-list at yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:17 AM
To: python-list at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Digest Number 2945


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/saFolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...
           From: ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
      2. Re: Arg decoding with a template?
           From: "Chui Tey" <teyc at bigfoot.com>
      3. Re: Language Niches (long)
           From: James Logajan <JamesL at Lugoj.Com>
      4. Re: Deposing Dictators
           From: dirck at pacbell.net (Dirck Blaskey)
      5. PyQt for win32
           From: Adonis Vargas <deltapigz at telocity.com>
      6. Re: Typing system vs. Java
           From: Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
      7. Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.
           From: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU>
      8. Is it new style or just lack of style?
           From: Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
      9. Re: SSL_connect error in Python 2.1.1 on IRIX 6.5
           From: Albert Chin-A-Young <china at foo.com>
     10. Re: Python threads with suncc (Forte 6.1) compiler
           From: Albert Chin-A-Young <china at foo.com>
     11. Re: The error of building Python on HP UX
           From: Albert Chin-A-Young <china at foo.com>
     12. MySQL module
           From: Andrey Revyakin <revyakag at umdnj.edu>
     13. curses-library bug? Help!
           From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
     14. Re: MySQL module
           From: "Guillermo Kim" <zual at gh21.net>
     15. Re: (in)exactness of complex numbers
           From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
     16. Re: Is it new style or just lack of style?
           From: "Danyel Fisher" <danyelf at ics.uci.edu>
     17. RE: Deposing Dictators
           From: lomax at pumpichank.com (Frank "Sticky Shift" Lomax)
     18. Re: Question about nested lists!
           From: "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
     19. Re: (in)exactness of complex numbers
           From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
     20. Re: OT: Map generation/plotting
           From: Pat Knight <pknight at eurologic.com>
     21. Re: 2.2 features
           From: delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Olaf Delgado)
     22. Re: Language Niches (long)
           From: Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
     23. Re: Unicode File Conversion
           From: Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de>
     24. Re: https proto module?
           From: Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de>
     25. Re: wierd asp problem
           From: "Volucris" <volucris at hotmail.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: 2 Aug 2001 21:42:14 -0700
   From: ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
Subject: Re: PSP, Cheetah, PTL, ZOPE, etc ...

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message
news:<23891c90.0108020149.1c07ddfa at posting.google.com>...
> Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote in message
news:<3dofpzk3vq.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>...
> > ChuckEsterbrook at yahoo.com (Chuck Esterbrook) writes:
> > > The *ML camp uses XML or XML-like tags for all instructions and
> > > substitutions. These include ZPT, Ehydra and others. There is a *ML
> > > like kit for Webware, but I don't think any serious time was put into
> > > it, hence it is hard to recommend (for Webware).
>
> You might be referring to my package, which I would like to develop
> further if I only had the time. I get the feeling that it's too
> different from what people expect in a template system, though.

Actually I was referring to "TALKit" which I think was an attempt to
have something like ZPT for Webware. (I think.)

I actually forgot that XMLForms could be used for templating, which
you pointed out earlier, and hence, wasn't thinking of it. I suppose
the name throws me off.


> > I've become quite fond of PTL's Python-based syntax.  Here's an
> > explanation of why (quoting from a not-yet-public article):
> >
> >         This syntax is quite different from most HTML templating
> >         languages, which usually look like HTML with magical
> >         delimiters (e.g. <%...%>, <?...?>, <!--#... -->) sprinkled
>
> Horrible, isn't it? ;-)

In Cheetah, the only escape code for substitution is $. The only code
for directives like "if" and "for" is #. Therefore, Cheetah doesn't
suffer from the problem that PTL is solving (for ASP, JSP, PHP, etc.)


> What would be interesting is a template environment where one can
> visualise the final form of the template and interact with it, without
> having to go through stages of rebuilding and refreshing it, along
> with the potential of the document "breaking" and requiring low-level
> intervention.

A GUI IDE for Templates? Interesting.


> I thought that W3C's Amaya might lend itself to such applications, but
> that just has to be added to my list of things that I would like to do
> if I only had the time.

Hey, I've got one of those too!

;-)


-Chuck
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:12:59 +1000
   From: "Chui Tey" <teyc at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Arg decoding with a template?

How about exploiting the python parser ?

>>> args="arg1, arg2, arg3='world'"
>>> s='def f(%s): pass' % args
>>> exec(s)
>>> dir(f.func_code)
['co_argcount', 'co_code', 'co_consts', 'co_filename', 'co_firstlineno',
'co_fla
gs', 'co_lnotab', 'co_name', 'co_names', 'co_nlocals', 'co_stacksize',
'co_varna
mes']
>>> print f.func_code.co_argcount
3
>>> print f.func_code.co_varnames
('arg1', 'arg2', 'arg3')
>>> print f.func_defaults
('world',)

Chui

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOSPAMco.uk> wrote in message
news:ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh at 4ax.com...
> Is there a class that simplifies high-level argument decoding under the
control of a template?
>
> Such a class would take a string as a template and the arg list and return
another list populated
> with keys, values and switches taken from the args.
>
> I've spent the last hour going through the global module list. If it's
there, its got a daft name!
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Riverhall Systems Ltd


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:52:25 -0700
   From: James Logajan <JamesL at Lugoj.Com>
Subject: Re: Language Niches (long)

Paul Prescod wrote:
> My impression was that C++ was a relatively unimportant language
> (relative to C) until Microsoft adopted it. That gave it a huge boost
> and essentially forced most C programmers to become C++ programmers.

Well, better not tell Bjarne Stroustrup. If he finds out, it'll make him a
quivering emotional wreck.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: 2 Aug 2001 22:07:53 -0700
   From: dirck at pacbell.net (Dirck Blaskey)
Subject: Re: Deposing Dictators

How about this for an alternate logo:

http://www.pythonet.org/resting2.gif

kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks) wrote in message
news:<5e8bd451.0108021110.3325bc8d at posting.google.com>...
> What is all this babble about democracy, dictators and what / should
> return? Now, i finally bring up a really important decision to be made
> on a very serious issue and nothing... all while you fight over pep
> this pep that. I DEMAND action now! I want all our snakes changed
> immediately to bunny rabbits! Who voted for the snake!? Why didn't we
> get a vote!? Was it that damned Tim Peters again! God! I know Guido
> said, "Hey dude, what about snakes?!" and Time said, "yeah, like
> whatever man...." (they were in california at the time i think)
>
> And now here we are 10 years on with all these slithering snakes
> instead of cute bunnies or penguins like linux (oh to have those
> cuties!).
>
>
> Hmmmph!
>
> love, peace, and cream cheese.
>
> ps. oh yeah <wink>
>
>
determined-to-be-the-only-python-user-that-doesn't-imitate-tim's-signoff-ly
>
> kevin parks
> seoul, korea
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 01:27:18 -0400
   From: Adonis Vargas <deltapigz at telocity.com>
Subject: PyQt for win32

where can i get PyQt for win32 with compiled Qt Library?
i was able to find it with no problem but it requires me to compile the
C++ files,
and my Mingw compiler errors like crazy on compiling it. im too cheap to
buy
microsofts compiler.

thanks in advance.

Adonis

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:15:49 +1200
   From: Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Typing system vs. Java

Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> Not
> to mention the peculiar implication of having INTEGER ranges as a
> built-in language feature, and REAL ranges nowhere to be seen

I think that's because various other language features
made use of the existence of ordinal subrange types,
such as array indexes and set types. There is nowhere
else in the language that real subranges are used,
so presumably Mr. Wirth didn't consider there was
enough justification for building them in.

Also, given the imprecision of comparing floats,
it could be difficult to pin down whether a given
value should be considered legal for a given
subrange in some cases. Discrete subranges are
much easier to write precise statements about
in language definitions.

--
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 01:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
   From: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Nested generators is the python equivalent of unix pipe cmds.


## more on combining generators
## (inspired by previous discussion and more recent one on python-dev)
## Nested generators is the python equivalent of
## unix pipeline commands.  -- Steve

from __future__ import generators

## You need:

## a generator: (you can also start with a list)

def Ints():
        n = 0
        while 1:
                yield n
                n += 1


## one or more filters:

def Test( gen, test ):
        for x in gen:
                if test(x):     yield x

## a terminator:

## ( by condition... )

def Quit( gen, test ):
        for x in gen:
                if test(x): raise StopIteration
                else: yield x

## ( or by count... )

def Count( gen, n ):
        for x in gen:
                yield x
                n -= 1
                if n == 0 : break


## shorthand names so the lines don't get too long:

odd = lambda x: Test( x, lambda y: y % 2 )
enough = lambda x: Quit( x, lambda y: y > 100 )
notdiv3 = lambda x: Test( x, lambda y: y % 3 )

## examples:

print "\n odd ints that are not divisible by 3 under 100:"
for i in notdiv3( enough( odd( Ints() ))):
        print i


print "\n first 20 odd ints not divisible by 3:"
for i in Count( notdiv3(odd(Ints())), 20 ):
        print i


# recursive file iterator as a generator:

from os import listdir, path

def Files( start ):
        for file in listdir( start ):
                file = path.join( start, file )
                if path.isfile( file ): yield file
                elif path.isdir(file):
                        for more in Files( file ):
                                yield more


isGif = lambda s: s.lower().find('.gif') >= 0

# This is MUCH nicer than using os.path.walk() with a callback!

##  print the first 20 gif files I can find in your cwd...
for f in Count(Test( Files('.'), isGif ), 20 ): print f




--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:12:08 +0400 (MSD)
   From: Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?


Hello!

More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
blanks in ( ).

Recent example (from Steven's post):

'''
def Files( start ):
        for file in listdir( start ):
                file = path.join( start, file )
                if path.isfile( file ): yield file
                elif path.isdir(file):
                        for more in Files( file ):
                                yield more
'''

Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
with the same ugly padding...

And what about:

'''
class E :
    pass
'''

It is not right style too...

Any ideas?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
--
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 03, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "MACINTOSH - Most Apps Crash, If Not, Then Operating System Hangs" _/



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:10:29 -0000
   From: Albert Chin-A-Young <china at foo.com>
Subject: Re: SSL_connect error in Python 2.1.1 on IRIX 6.5

Francis Tilney <ftilney at commercetone.com> wrote:
> I built Python 2.1.1 on an SGI machine with SSL enabled.
> However when I tried to connect to an https connection I got an error.
> (Another similar test suggested that the ssl error was error 1
> (SSL_ERROR_SSL)).
> Traceback is below.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

SSL support is not going to work without /dev/random which is not
available on IRIX. So, you need to run PRNGD
(http://www.aet.tu-cottbus.de/personen/jaenicke/postfix_tls/prngd.html)
as a replacement for /dev/random and configure Modules/socketmodule.c
to call RAND_egd to set things up (you set the environment variable
RANDFILE before a urlopen). The patches we use against Python 2.1.1
that enables SSL support with RAND_egd is at:
  ftp://ftp.thewrittenword.com/packages/free/source/python-2.1.1

--
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:16:21 -0000
   From: Albert Chin-A-Young <china at foo.com>
Subject: Re: Python threads with suncc (Forte 6.1) compiler

Pataki G?bor <gabor.pataki at eth.ericsson.se> wrote:
> I would like to get some help because I am in trouble with threads. I
> work on a Solaris 8.0 (64 bit) system. Python is compiled with Sun CC
> (Forte 6.1) compiler with threading support. A small program
> telnetting to a computer often dumps core it works fine with gcc.

Works fine for me on a Solaris 8/SPARC machine running a 64-bit
kernel. I tried Python 2.0.1 and 2.1.1 both compiled with Sun Forte
6.1.

$ ./test.py
ThreadID 0 started
ThreadID 1 started
ThreadID 2 started
ThreadID 3 started
ThreadID 2 finished
ThreadID 3 finished
ThreadID 1 finished
ThreadID 0 finished

> Thanks,
> Gabor Pataki

> import threading
> import telnetlib

> def TelnetToIpw01():
>
>        hostname = "my_hostname"
>        username = "user_name"
>        password = "password"
>
>        tn = telnetlib.Telnet(hostname)
>        tn.read_until("login: ")
>        tn.write(username + '\n')
>        tn.read_until("Password: ")
>        tn.write(password + '\n')

> class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>
>        def run(self):
>                print "ThreadID", self.cnt, "started"
>                TelnetToIpw01()
>                print "ThreadID", self.cnt, "finished"

> for i in range(0,4):
>        m = MyThread()
>        m.cnt = i
>        m.start()

--
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:31:13 -0000
   From: Albert Chin-A-Young <china at foo.com>
Subject: Re: The error of building Python on HP UX

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Guido]
>> (Couldn't resist. :-)
>>
>> It is indeed an error to attempt to build Python on HP UX.  (See the
>> endless laments in the SF bug database.)

> [SteveN]
>> And yet HP makes it available:
>> http://hpux.connect.org.uk/hppd/hpux/Languages/python-2.1/

> They've made binaries available for some time, yet HP-UX users seem
> incapable of successfully compiling it themselves ("see the endless
laments
> in the SF bug database" indeed).  So what's up with that platform?!  Would
> sure be nice if one of the folks at the HP Porting Centre filled us in --
> and if they need to patch the source to get it to compile, we'd be
delighted
> to fold that into the core.

We'll submit patches for 2.0.1 and 2.1.1. I think we did so for 2.0
and 2.1 but I don't remember. HP-UX 11.00 with threads works fine for
us.

--
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:38:40 -0400
   From: Andrey Revyakin <revyakag at umdnj.edu>
Subject: MySQL module

...  I know it exists, but where can I get it? Please help!

Andrey.

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
   Date: 3 Aug 2001 00:12:34 -0700
   From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Subject: curses-library bug? Help!

Hi all! When i try to catch curses.KEY_ENTER, for example, getch() returns

something completley diffrent :)

well, i'll give you my code and explains
below. ----------------------------------

import curses

curses.initscr()

win = curses.newwin(0,0,0,0)

win.keypad(1)

win.refresh()

while 1:

  ch = win.getch()

  if ch == curses.KEY_ENTER:

    win.addstr(10,10,"Enter pressed")

    win.refresh()

-------------------------------------

doesen't write anything at all on my screeen!(when i press 'enter', of
course :)



The strange thing is, that other constants work, for example

curses.KEY_RESIZE, but no "keyboard-keys"(enter, tab, backspace)

When i run my application in pure textmode (no X server), it works,

but when i run my app in a terminalemulator, the mapping of the keys

failes. I don't know if it makes any sence, but I'm running Linux-mandrake.



Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Teodor
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:52:02 +0900
   From: "Guillermo Kim" <zual at gh21.net>
Subject: Re: MySQL module

Maybe here ...
http://www.mysql.com/Downloads/Contrib/MySQLmodule-1.4.tar.gz

another ..
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mysql-python/





"Andrey Revyakin" <revyakag at umdnj.edu> wrote in message
news:3B6A46F0.F41E5B74 at umdnj.edu...
> ...  I know it exists, but where can I get it? Please help!
>
> Andrey.
>


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:07:10 GMT
   From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Subject: Re: (in)exactness of complex numbers

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:55:02 -0400, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
wrote:
[...]
>
>What has not so far been explicitly stated (although several posts have
>implied it) is that complex numbers are in fact points on a two-dimensional
>plane. If we choose to represent those points as distances along two
>orthogonal axes then the concept of exactness might be said to have some
>meaning for the points at the intersections of two integral values. But if
>we choose to represent an "exact" complex number (by the previous
>definition) in polar coordinates (angle & magnitude) then the same complex
>number would become inexact. Even though there is a strict mathematical
>relationship between polar and orthogonal representations (which is many to
>one, BTW), the transformations would render exactness a less than useful
>concept. A similarly "exact" polar representation would become inexact in
>orthogonal representations.
>
>Hence I now believe exactness is not useful for complex values. Not that it
>couldn't be implemented if somebody perverse enough chose to. Simply that
it
>wouldn't be useful.
>
I am perverse enough to think it could be useful, but maybe not perverse
enough to implement it ;-)

My thought is that what the computer can usefully tell us about exactness
is how well it succeeds in preserving it through some operation(s). It needs
to be told that the inputs are exact, but it can tell us whether the result
is exact. Programmed operations are always on representations, resulting in
representations, obviously.

Representation in polar or cartesian form would lose exactness through
different operations, but e.g., multiplying by (2+0j) could presumably
be exact either way. Either way you'd have a pair of numbers, but the
operations on the components would be different, though related in result
through the point they identify (identify differently, which I guess was
Greg's first point, though the rest was about other uses of number pairs,
which was beside the point w.r.t. the uses of having accurate
representations
for the numbers *in* number pairs representing complex values, whichever
kind of pair it might be).

If angles were represented as rational coefficients for pi radians instead
of one radian, a fair number of angles could be represented exactly.

The criterion for exactness here would be that operating on the
finite-precision
representations of the inputs would result in a finite-precision output
equal
in mathematical value to what would have been the case if all the
representations
had been infinite precision. If there are two components to the
representation,
then the criterion applies to each separately.

This would require two separate representations of complex, both in literals
and
internally, and conversions between could only be exact in a few trivial
cases.

You would want exactness attributes for both components in either
representation,
I think. Sometimes a conversion could produce one exact component, which if
carried
as such might be the one of most interest in the end. E.g., sin(pi/6) = 1/2
exactly.
Of course, you'd have to be pretty perverse and check exact lookups for some
of these
before sending them through IEEE754 functions ;-)

I've never done anything with exact complex numbers, so I don't know how it
could
really be used. I guess you could say the angles in an FFT are implicitly
exact,
but I don't know how you could do the whole thing exactly, except maybe a
trivial case.

IIRC, Henry Baker(?) wrote something about exact integer
cartesian-represented complex
in some ACM SIG article, but I don't remember much more than that.

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:49:47 -0700
   From: "Danyel Fisher" <danyelf at ics.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Is it new style or just lack of style?

> More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> blanks in ( ).

> Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
> Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
> with the same ugly padding...

Indeed. It Greatly Displeases our BDFL. Despite that, it is an old
and well-loved style, a favorite from many languages... Because I
am carefully putting off real work, I have saved you the effort of a
solid web search.

In my Java class, lo those many years ago, we learned that we want
spaces in that open style: foo( bar )
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~croft/research/java/guide/#format
http://www.javaranch.com/style.jsp#space
    (which is nice enough to point out that this is a hybrid of practicality
of the way that many text editors implement double-click-for-copy, and
tradition)

Many others disagree.
http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConventions.doc7.html#475
http://www.geosoft.no/javastyle.html#White%20Space
[Note that the JavaSoft guide wants you to space things as
    foo( bar );
while the GeoSoft guide prefers
    foo(bar);
]

------------------
I don't know what the history is. I tried a few other languages, looking
for "<language> style guide whitespace" on Google...

Most languages dislike it...

Perl doesn't care too much. Apparently, there's more than one way to do it.
http://www.javaranch.com/style.jsp#space

C:
http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/paul/docs/cstyle/cstyle06.htm

Lisp:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/html/faqs/lang
/lisp/part1/faq-doc-4.html

Fortran:
http://www.aeem.iastate.edu/Computers/Software/Fortran/guide.html

Ada:
http://www.grammatech.com/aadoc/man-whitespace.html#horizontalWhitespace

And then some breakthroughs...

Assembly:
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/Page_asm/moreasm/asmstyle.htm
mentions things like
     mov ax, 10;  { Set AX to 11 }
;                       swap( a[i][j], b[j][i] );
in comments.

http://www.students.stedwards.edu/~ttiriti/pl.htm
suggests
    awk -F: '{ print $1; print $2; print $3 }' /etc/passwd
which is a habit I certainly find myself falling into when
I'm hacking shell scripts--it keeps everything apart, and
therefore VERY VERY clear to the interpreter.

Does anyone have a better sense of history on this?

--Danyel


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 03:45:39 -0400
   From: lomax at pumpichank.com (Frank "Sticky Shift" Lomax)
Subject: RE: Deposing Dictators


    > Give the guy a break, Carl.  Frank may not be the swiftest coder
    > around, but it's really not unusual for newcomers to take as
    > long as 3 weeks to reach the 100 Kline/day Python median.

Thank you Uncle Timmy, for being so understanding.  This is what I
have come to love about the Python community.

As you surmise, I have been coding Forth at the Cheez Whiz factory for
about 35 years.  I was lead designer of the WEINOR 59 (Whiz Extruder
and Injector, Numerically Operated Robot) and only just discovered
Python a few months ago, after a dare from Melvin X, an employee of
mine who is the Primary Cheez Canal De-gunker and Tube Washer.  Melvin
is a very bright kid, but even so, I was quite skeptical until he
boosted our Whiz Canister Thruput seven fold after converting the
prime Cheez pump control software from Forth to Python in a (very
productive, and crackerful) weekend.

    > If Frank is *very* new at Python (which it sounds like), he'll
    > see a big improvement when he breaks himself of the habit of
    > reaching for his curly-brace keys all the time.

Those are not the only curly things I reach for when I program Python.

habits-are-like-skulls,-coconuts,-or-virgin-cheez-whiz-bottles-
    you-have-to-smash-them-into-brick-walls-several-times-at-high-
    velocity-before-they-will-break-and-then-just-watch-what-comes-
    out-ly y'rs - frank

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:39:25 +0200
   From: "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Question about nested lists!

"rainlet" <orrego at mail2000.com.tw> wrote in message
news:f37349a7.0108021859.4f620ec2 at posting.google.com...
> I use a nested list to make a 2-d array. The code follows:
>
>     floor_member = [ 0 ]
>     for x in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor_member.append ( 0 )
>     floor = [ floor_member ]
>     for y in range ( 9 ) :
>         floor.append ( floor_member )

This buils a peculiar structure indeed, 10 items all
referring to the same list object.  Simpler:

floor = [ [0]*10 for x in range(10) ]

and now the anomaly you've observed (and many
others) disappear (this is also faster & more
concise, of course).

If you insist in doing it your way, at least you have
to modify your code so a COPY of floor_member is
used each time rather than the object itself, using
    floor.append(floor_member[:])
as the last statement.


Alex



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
   Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:05:54 GMT
   From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Subject: Re: (in)exactness of complex numbers

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:06:06 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter]
>> ... internals people (of which I'm
>> not one, in case the thought occurred. Not that I wouldn't like to be at
>> some point ;-).
>
>Jump in!  Love to have you.  Try to do something useful, though <wink>.
>
Thanks. I'm all shook up ;-)
I've got a ways to go before I truly grok the implementation though,
and a few other things are pressing, so I can't promise anything
serious for some time, I fear ;-(

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
   Date: 03 Aug 2001 09:07:17 +0100
   From: Pat Knight <pknight at eurologic.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Map generation/plotting

In a previous job I produced a Python script to draw maps using the
CIA world map database. Unfortunately, my previous employer has the
rights to the script so I can't just post it.

However, it didn't take long to write. You can get the data files from
various places on the net (I think we got them from
gatekeeper.dec.com). They're in a well documented format storing
national boundaries, oceans, rivers, lakes etc as sequences of
points. The points use a latitude/longitude encoding. There are open
source C programs that handle the format - these together with the
data documentation should let you write a Python script quite
quickly. I used PIL to generate PNG and JPG versions.

I never did automatic colouring of the maps - an exercise for the
developer? :-)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
   Date: 3 Aug 2001 10:18:24 MET
   From: delgado at eva17.Mathematik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE (Olaf Delgado)
Subject: Re: 2.2 features

 Tim Hochberg wrote:

>isinstance(anInstance, aClass) => aClass.classof(anInstance)
>isubclass(aSubclass, aBaseclass) => aBaseclass.superclassof(aSubclass)

Not bad! How about
  aClass.has_instance(anInstance)
and
  aBaseclass.has_subclass(aSubclass),
then?

This would resemble dictionary.has_key(...).

Olaf
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:30:55 +0100
   From: Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Language Niches (long)

In article <mailman.996809786.30007.python-list at python.org>, Paul
Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes
>Rich Holm wrote:
>>
>>...
>>
>> I don't want to start a flame fest, but...
>>
>> Where did you hear this?  It was Borland that popularized the C++
>> on Windows paradym.  Microsoft was WAS behind the curve at the time.
>> The Borland class libraries were/are vastly superior to MFC.  Too
>> bad they lost out in the end.
>
>My impression was that C++ was a relatively unimportant language
>(relative to C) until Microsoft adopted it. That gave it a huge boost
>and essentially forced most C programmers to become C++ programmers.
>
well I have VC++ and it's a pretty good C development environment. I'm
fairly sure it doesn't pass any recognised C tests though. I don't think
anyone's forced by M$ to use C++ and I'm fairly sure C represents a lot
of the internals of Win32.
--
Robin Becker
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 23
   Date: 03 Aug 2001 10:33:53 +0200
   From: Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: Unicode File Conversion

Tksee Lhsoh <tksee at yahoo.com> writes:

> I would like to convert unicode strings to strings of a ceratin code
> such as ISO 8859-1 and ISO 8859-2 in Europe, ISO 8859-7 in Greece,
> EUC and Shift-JIS in Japan,...
>
> And would be really glad if there are any converters!

To convert a Unicode string to ISO 8859-1, just do

thestring.encode("iso-8859-1")

The same works for all of ISO 8859; the relevant codecs are supported
in the standard python library. For other codecs, please have a look at

http://sourceforge.net/projects/python-codecs

There are specific codecs for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean encodings
in the practicecodecs CVS directory, and an iconv codec to expose all
codecs of your Unix C library.

Regards,
Martin

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 24
   Date: 03 Aug 2001 10:37:30 +0200
   From: Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: https proto module?

krel <krel at is-antisocial.net> writes:

> Is there a module out there to deal with the https (http with an 's' on
the
> end) protocol? I'd love it if there were.

The standard Python httplib module provides a class httplib.HTTPS. It
is only available if the socket module was compiled with OpenSSL.

Regards,
Martin

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 25
   Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 04:02:53 -0500
   From: "Volucris" <volucris at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: wierd asp problem

I think I heard somewhere that you need to indent your entire script:

<script runat=server language=Python >
    class standard_template:
        br = "<br>"
        textColor   = "black"
        bgColor     = "white"

etc...

Of course, I could be entirely wrong. HTH.

--

Volucris (a) hotmail.com
"Eu n?o falo uma ?nica palavra do portugu?s."

"Scott Hathaway" <scott_hathaway at riskvision.com> wrote in message
news:3b69a492.0 at 216.0.152.7...
> I am trying to use Python (the latest version from ActiveState) with ASP
on
> IIS 5.
>
> Here is the wierd problem I am having.  If I use:
>
> <%@ language=Python %>
> <%
> class standard_template:
>     br = "<br>"
>     textColor   = "black"
>     bgColor     = "white"
>
> etc...
>
> Things work fine.  If I try:
>
> <script runat=server language=Python >
> class standard_template:
>     br = "<br>"
>     textColor   = "black"
>     bgColor     = "white"
>
> etc...
>
> I get:
>
> Error Type:
> Python ActiveX Scripting Engine (0x80020009)
> Traceback (innermost last): IndentationError: expected an indented block
> (line 2)
> /asptemplates/standard_template.asp
>
> I need to use the <script sytax because I need to include this class (and
> use it) from VBScript in ASP.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
>
>


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com






From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Tue Aug 14 17:46:45 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:46:45 -0400
Subject: Subclassing a win32com.client.Dispatch() Object?
In-Reply-To: <997820611.450.82370.l8@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B796405.28411.597FB7@localhost>

rcspython at yahoo.com wrote, in part:
> Can this be done usign win32com?
> I have win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS)
> 
> I need something like ...

Suggest you do a search on groups.google.com for "python 
subclass com object" and read the first thread that is being offered 
at the present.

Bill





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 25 02:02:52 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:02:52 -0700
Subject: scoping weirdness
Message-ID: <7x4rqwllrn.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

    from __future__ import nested_scopes   # python 2.1.1

    def foo (n):
        a = lambda: 'you said (%d)' % n
        n += 3
        return a

    x = foo(1)
    print x()

This prints 4, rather than 1 as I would have expected.
I think I understand what's going on, but is it really what was intended?
Is there a preferred way of writing this kind of function?

Thanks.


From paul at boddie.net  Mon Aug 13 05:02:49 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 02:02:49 -0700
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997581501.6670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108130102.38a8ac68@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997581501.6670.python-list at python.org>...
> [Tim]
> > although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
> [Paul Boddie]
> > Absolutely not!
> 
> LOL -- "absolutely not" *what*?

I meant that absolutely nothing-can-make-everyone-happy. ;-)

> It's absolutely not more consistent, absolutely not more predictable,
> absolutely not an incompatibility, I absolutely should not look at hacking
> backward-compatibility crud back into dir(), or it's absolutely not the case
> that nothing can make everyone happy?

Nothing can, but we'd surely be *content* to see this change. ;-)

> > Perhaps there should be a well-known and widely published way of doing
> > this kind of thing, but dir is a well-known function. It's a shame
> > about dir([])...
> 
> dir() may be well-known, but what it does isn't.  It was originally added
> with dir(module) in mind, and nothing more than that

[...]

Yes, but I think people really like the idea of being able to use it
like UNIX's ls command (or DOS's dir command, obviously) for a given
namespace. Again it comes down to one particular interpretation of
consistency: dir returns variables and functions (and classes) for
modules, so why not have it return attributes and methods for objects?
It already does so for classes (class attributes and unbound methods),
but in order to justify the same for objects, we need to briefly
consider what modules are... before people like me start to claim that
modules are more like objects than classes. ;-)

> I like Guido's idea of having it return more instead of less, though.  In
> any case, introspective needs vary too much by context to hope that a single
> simple function will make everyone happy -- or even anyone happy all the
> time.

Isn't that Barnum's Law? :-)

> and-it-is-a-shame-about-dir([])-otherwise-ly y'rs  - tim

Yes, but on this subject I'm just being an "agent provocateur" - I
don't use dir that much myself. But then perhaps that's due to its
inconsistent behaviour...

Paul


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug 29 09:58:01 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:58:01 +0100
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8CF4E9.7020709@herts.ac.uk>

There is no need to buy it, you can download it all (or at least most) 
special thingies included from www.python.org. You'll also find 
tutorials, FAQ's, documentation etc here as well.

look forward to seeing ya around

blobby

jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> So, python simply is the best language ever.
> Ok i heard engough. It's time to get python for me. You just can buy  it in
> a shop, can't you? Are all the special thingies included? Nwa, i'm just
> going to try it! I guess you'll see me here a lot the coming months.
> 
> 
> 



From emile at fenx.com  Sun Aug 26 01:03:28 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:03:28 -0700
Subject: Text Formating in Python
References: <1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ma06p$127cn$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

from random import randrange as rand
def formatWithColor(i):
    color = '#000000'
    if i < 0: color = '#ff0000'
    if i > 0: color = '#008000'
    return '<font color=%s>%8.2f' % (color, i)
print "<BR>".join([formatWithColor(rand(-99,99)) for i in range(10)])

Add seasonings to taste...

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Lee Hulbert" <lhulbert at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e at posting.google.com...
> Is there a simple way to format a text string before printing to the
> screen?
>
> Specifically, I have a list of 80 numbers, and I want to print the
> list, with each number a different color if it is positive, negative,
> or 0.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Lee



From foobarickknob at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 19:06:34 2001
From: foobarickknob at yahoo.com (Scott Taylor)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 16:06:34 -0700
Subject: Bug in shutil.rmtree?
Message-ID: <5a140c6d.0108111506.522111a3@posting.google.com>

I'm using shutil.rmtree on W2K, and the way it's acting doesn't seem
to jive w/ the docs.  Isn't the second param to rmtree supposed to
ignore any errors if it runs across any?

shutil.rmtree( 'c:\\foobartest', 1 ) gives me this exception...

WindowsError: [Errno 3] The system cannot find the path specified:
'foobartest'

... if c:\\foobartest doesn't exist.  Shouldn't I not get an exception
if the second param is true?

Thanx!

Scott


From dalke at acm.org  Wed Aug  1 07:29:44 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:29:44 +0100
Subject: grok.py (module I found)
References: <9k9ftb$hdk$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <9k9hum$qbc$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
>I've found this module somewhere linked from the Vaults of Parnassus,
>but then my browser crashed and I can't find the link anymore. Did it
>disappear from the vaults?

Sorry about that.  There was some problems with the systems last
night (related to python.org being down) and the code you sent around
had some problems in it that exercised the system flaws.  Things
should be cleared up by now.


>    # try evaluating this code
>    try:
>        exec code
  ...
>    except:
>        # ignore any errors
>        pass

Here's one of the problems.  The code can call sys._exit or
apply_at_time so you'll need to use a TimeBastion.

>    # otherwise, we want to time travel back to the moment in time
>    # just before (one second) we called the function, and try again
>    return timetravel.apply_at_time(grok, [text], {}, call_time - 1)

And this was the real culprit.  That shouldn't be 'call_time - 1'
since you end up with backwards propogating code.  In fact, I didn't
realize there were any Py3K systems running in 2001.  Try using
timetravel.Now() to get a restartable time.  You're working at too
low of a level.  Here's what you should be doing:

  call_time = timetravel.Now()
    ...
  call_time.apply(grok, [text], {})


># o what if the user asks the program to do something impossible, like
>#   a self-contradictory thing? Study temporal mechanics to try to figure
>#   this out. Wouldn't want to hang the universe.
>#

Read the manual.  There's some quantum uncertainty where the backwards
traveling message may randomly become corrupt.  This enables loops
to (eventually) collapse.  Try this:

import timetravel

counter = 0L
queue = timetravel.Queue()
while timetravel.Loop():  # use structured code instead of your jumps
  v = queue.get()
  if v != 1:
    break
  queue.put(1)
  counter += 1
queue.put(0)

print counter


When I run it I usually get numbers around 10E34, which is how much
time it takes for Planck level noise to affect things.

If you don't have the queue.put(0) in then you'll get numbers on the
order of 10E68 since then you need spontaneous message creation
as well as simple corruption, and that's a second order effect.

BTW, how did you manage to post this message?  I thought the PSU
filtered every





From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Fri Aug  3 15:29:35 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:29:35 GMT
Subject: os.path.commonprefix inadequacies
References: <E15RgvB-0001jn-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.996616802.10156.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6afae9.271727102@news.laplaza.org>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:59:22 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

:
:    Dean> The os.path.commonprefix function at first glance seems like a
:    Dean> useful function: to find a common ancestor of a bunch of
:    Dean> paths.
:
:I tried to get this sort of change adopted two years ago, but was unable to
:convince people that it should operate on path elements instead of strings.
:In fact, I actually updated the relevant bits of code in CVS but had to
:retract the changes when the semantic change broke something of Mark
:Hammond's.  My argument was that the common filesystem prefix of these two
:paths
:
:    /home/sally
:    /home/sam
:
:should be "/home/" (or "/home"), not "/home/sa".  

Well, I wasn't listening in 1999, but I certainly agree.  If you want
a routine that works as this one is described, it should be a string
method and work on arbitrary strings.  If it's going to live in
os.path, it should work on the pathname-component level only.

Maybe it's time to try again, now that there's a warning framework to
introduce a change gnetly.

Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 17:24:55 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:24:55 -0700
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
References: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D5DA7.6D977284@ccvcorp.com>


andrew wrote:

> in interactive interpreter, i get these results:
>
> >>> 21.0 /5
> 4.2000000000000002
> [...snip...]
> anyone else seeing this?  is this a known bug?

It's not so much a bug, as it is a limitation of binary floating-point
arithmetic.  There are some decimal numbers that are not precisely
representable in binary floating point (just as there are some binary fp
numbers that aren't decimal-representable).  If you truly need precision in
your decimals, you should use fixed-point arithmetic (I believe there's a
FixedPoint.py available somewhere for this).  There are projects underway
to provide Python with a true Rational number type, but those are
incomplete as of yet.  And, really... for most uses of floating point, the
current system is good enough.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From new_name at mit.edu  Wed Aug 15 23:50:11 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 23:50:11 -0400
Subject: Explain modules to me PLEASE
References: <20010815232428.01517.00000560@mb-cb.aol.com>
Message-ID: <etdpu9wacjw.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Have a look at http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node8.html

Alex.


From jaspervp at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 17:21:28 2001
From: jaspervp at hotmail.com (jasper)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:21:28 +0200
Subject: updating com server
References: <69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206@posting.google.com> <9l8dlg$7uq1m$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9lep74$t93$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

thanks


Emile van Sebille heeft geschreven in bericht
<9l8dlg$7uq1m$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>...
>I've been working on a com server that returns ~80 fields to Excel.  While
I
>don't understand the why of it, my routine now when making changes to the
>python source is to close Excel; make the python changes; re-register the
>com server, which also serves to confirm that the source properly compiles;
>and finally, to re-open Excel and the workbook I'm testing with.
>
>HTH you with Word.
>
>--
>
>Emile van Sebille
>emile at fenx.com
>
>---------
>"jasper" <jaspervp at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206 at posting.google.com...
>> hi,
>>
>> I have made a simple comserver with python which returns a string,
>> when called from word.
>> I have changed the comserver to return an other string, but it still
>> returns the old string. I have tried unregistering and registering
>> again, but that doesn't help. the only thing that seems to help is
>> rebooting.
>>
>> is there an easier way to do this?
>>
>>
>> Jasper
>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 12:31:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:31:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <20010829072809.B27471@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291158110.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Neil Schemenauer wrote:

> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >
> >     John> Under Unix, each program is its own address space, and .so modules
> >     John> are private resources once they're loaded.
> >
> > I might be reading this wrong, and I'm definitely taking you out of context,
> > but the whole idea of .so files is that their text sections *are* shared
> > among processes.  Their data sections will be process-private.
>
> That's an optimization done at the OS level however.  The process does
> not see it.  I think (perhaps incorrectly) that John is saying that the
> sharing is done in a less transparent fashion on Windows.  Can someone
> confirm?
>
> I don't know how this relates to the original question however.
>
>   Neil

The way Windows does it seems (I have more experience with Windows binding
than Unix binding) to be exactly the same. Either you have a .lib that tells
you exactly what ordinal a given function has (a la .so-searching done by ld,
only a LOT less transparent in C under Windows, only because you need the
.lib), or you can you GetProcFuncInstanceByName() (or SOMETHING like that) the
same way you use dlsym().

The original question was getting rid of Windows' pythonXY.dll versioning
incompatibilities in C extensions. The way Unix does it is to force the
application with the interpreter to link with
/usr/lib/pythonX.Y/libpythonX.Y.a and then make global all symbols within it.
I had suggested doing something similar for Windows. I got a response
from John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net> which I wasn't fully happy with:

"The design goals for Unix and Windows were totally different. Under Unix,
each program is its own address space, and .so modules are private resources
once they're loaded. Under Windows, they are shared resources - the same
physical memory copy can be used simultaniously by multiple users, and appears
in multiple address spaces. Consequently, it's impossible for them to link
back. Also, much of the thinking that went into the mechanisms came from
CORBA, where they wanted to run an application on one system, and link to a
module on another system."

The way DLLs work is that the GetWhateverByName() function sets up private
thunks to a shared CS for the DLL, and when an application wants to call a
function in a DLL, it ends up transparently calling the thunk instead.

Now a "thunk" is a small bit of code that serves two purposes:

1) load the .text segment is not in memory if it has been paged out, and
2) set DS to a private value based on the calling code.

Now here's where it gets interesting. The DS for a DLL is copy-on-write, so if
a change is made in it, an application gets its own private copy per DLL.
Incidentally, global variables in C are stored in DS.

SO...

I propose that we make the following changes to how Windows C extensions are
built:

1) make some sort of 'thunking.h' or whatnot that contains global function
     pointers for 'PyMem_Malloc', 'PyMem_Free', etc., and
2) make a pythonDLLX.Y.lib that contains a DllMain() that thunks the functions
     from the application (which has previously linked python.X.Y.lib) and
     sets the global variables in thunking.h.

That way the behaviour of the Windows C extensions matches that of the Unix C
extensions and pythonXY.dll can be done away with.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>








From bokr at accessone.com  Sun Aug 26 15:46:47 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:46:47 GMT
Subject: Striding slice?
Message-ID: <3b8951c6.530504965@wa.news.verio.net>

 >>> a='0123456789'
 >>> a[0:5]
 '01234'
 >>> a[0:5:2]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: sequence index must be integer
 >>>

How about (faked example):
 >>> a[0:5:2]
 '024'
?



From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Sun Aug 12 22:30:10 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:30:10 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <004d01c1239f$e077bbc0$a9e1fea9@carol>

>Guido isn't obsessed with Carnegie Mellon.  We have years of reports from
>many Python users about the real-life consequences of division semantics,
>and VPython is notable primarily because they cared so much they forked
>Python to change it.  Should Guido ignore that?  Of course not.

Alice forked Python on the case sensitivity issue.

Where is the evidence on the VPython site that they have forked
Python on the div issue?  The docs specifically caution on the 
div semantics. Obviously unnecessary if they were using 
a patched Python.

So yes I was disturbed that Guido's original announcement
of the PEP0238 acceptance was a few sentences long, *at least *
one of which was wrong - the VPython fork bubbermeister.

And I am disturbed to hear Tim Peters repeat it as fact.

Worst case scenario we are talking about a student, warned
of Python's behavior, not being careful to apply what he knew.

Took him three hours to debug. Poor guy.  

I've fallen into every trap there is to fall into in learning 
Python.  Never thought to blame it on the language. 
Kind of thought the language was doing exactly what
the documentation says it would do, and *I* did something 
wrong.  The finding it, and fixing it - was invaluable.  

But you all know all this. 

I can't help feeling half the time that I am up against an 
entire community playing dumb.  

Tim responds to everything except my central point.  That 
there is an excellent basis to assert that if the universe
of Python was VPython, the change makes little sense.  

The benefit is superficial, the detriment deeper in
misdirecting students on the significance of the integer 
numeric type within the Numeric framework which 
is central to VPython. The unified model ain't here
yet - let's deal well with what we have. 

So yes, ratifying or accepting VPython's analysis 
to any extent was a mistake, IMO. Guido need not have
ignored it, but certainly need not to have given it more
weight than it deserves.  Obviously there is a difference
of opinion about what that is.  And I am certainly holding
my ground on my opinion. 

What VPython in no way addresses is the implications 
of the alternative. 

Now, quite belatedly,  they shall. 

All this BTW coming from someone who truly thinks
VPython, as a Python extension, is a marvelous piece
of work, and one of the most concrete contributions
to a CP4E initiative, however one may chose to define
that initiative, made to date. 
 
ART




From fig at localhost.localdomain  Fri Aug 10 11:25:32 2001
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:25:32 -0000
Subject: PySOAP???
References: <3b73dbde.489022847@news.laplaza.org> <EE52A68200EA9E52.24FDF2ACE10FC10B.A7850789BC5E73F4@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9n7vkq.1i2.fig@localhost.localdomain>

><URL: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysoap/ >

No released files here, and it looks like not much activity since it
was started in October.

Any other ideas, Cameron?  I would be happy to update the article with
a better location if you have one.

-Stephen

O'Reilly Network 
Python Editor 


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Fri Aug 31 03:45:47 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:45:47 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310129540.30302-100000@bms>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310142390.30302-100000@bms>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Bruce Sass wrote:
> and you even get the id (which just happens to be
> the address in memory the object is located).

Maybe, it depends on the version od Python you have.

You know you are getting old when you make stupid mistakes at 1:30AM
instead of 4:30AM.  :/


- Bruce




From glen at enabledventures.com  Sat Aug 11 18:00:14 2001
From: glen at enabledventures.com (Glen Starchman)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:00:14 GMT
Subject: [ANN] PyF*ck -- a Brainf*ck compiler in Python
Message-ID: <3B75A924.580B498A@enabledventures.com>

Here's an example of what happens when someone has too much time on
their hands... a Brainf*ck compiler in Python that creates clear and
concise Python code. 

http://hanzomon.enabledtechnology.com/pyfck.html

Also coming soon: Brython -- like Jython, but using Brainf*ck as the
target language... run arbitary Python code in Brainf*ck!

If you also have too much time on your hands, you will enjoy this
wonderful piece of software.

--
Glen Starchman
The Enabled Technology Group
206.234.7330
>+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>++++++
[<+++++>-]<-.+++++++..+++.


From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Aug 10 19:03:53 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:03:53 -0000
Subject: Threads, namespaces, and the immortal event
References: None <mailman.997472836.3367.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <997484632.972316@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth mike wakerly <mike-list at wakerly.com>:
...
| My code is something like this below. (The code I am 
| working on may have subtle differences, which may be 
| the problem, but I have poured over almost all week 
| without success.. maybe someone will notice 
| something, like my foolish presumptions/bad habits 
| from other languages <grin>).

I'm abbreviating this so much, because I tried the code you
posted, and either it doesn't run or, modified slightly,
it runs and works like I think you would expect.  (I made
"a_subclass" inherit from threading.Thread.)

Don't feel that you must post the exact code you're working
on, but why don't you make an example like this - and then
verify that it can be run and will exhibit the behavior you
are asking about.  (And mention the platform.)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Aug 12 07:34:57 2001
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:34:57 GMT
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com>
Message-ID: <BRtd7.10318$z21.1371374@newsc.telia.net>

wim delvaux wrote:
> in C  (Making abstraction of a lot of other stuff )
>
> Mod_Function( PyObject *self, PyObject *args )  {
>
>           PyObject * FirstArg;
>
>            if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "o", &FirstArg ))
>                return NULL;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &FirstArg ))
        return NULL;

>
>           /* And then something like */
>
>           if( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == String ) {

    if (PyString_Check(FirstArg)) {

>               char * String;
>               PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "s", &String );

    String = PyString_AS_STRING(FirstArg)

>           } else if ( Py_GetType( FirstArg ) == Integer ) {

    } if (PyInt_Check(FirstArg)) {

>               long IVal;
>               PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "i", &IVal);

    IVal = PyInt_AsLong(FirstArg)

>           } else {
>               return NULL;

    PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "expected string or integer");
    return NULL;

>           }
> }
>
> What would be the correct Python Library code to implement the above
> pseudo code

taking another look at the Extension/Embedding and C API docs
might help.  if you need sample code, look under Modules in the
source distribution.

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug  5 14:56:21 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:56:21 +0100
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <eppstein-F2006B.15303626072001@news.service.uci.edu> <yu99puamdzte.fsf@europa.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <o01rmtsbpv3rukmdbhronro81g6te0vm1r@4ax.com>

I should perhaps make it clear that this is a combined reply to all
those who are still quoted here. I am fully aware that Andre Koenig
did not write everything I am replying to, so please don't reply to me
to tell me so.


On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:52:45 GMT, Andrew Koenig <ark at research.att.com>
wrote:

>David> In article <cp4rrz5onj.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>,
>David>  Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>
>>> Here's a completely revised version of PEP 238.  It contains a long
>>> motivational section, a clear specification of what will happen, and a
>>> discussion of rejected alternatives, a list of open issues, a Q-and-A
>>> section etc..  I hope it answers most questions that have been raised
>>> about this issue.  I'd be happy to revise it if there are still things
>>> unclear.
>
>David> I agree with the previous poster who said to use "quotient" instead of 
>David> "floor division".

This seems much better to me than 'correct division'. I'm not sure
that 'quotient' implies integer results, however. I was sufficiently
uncertain to go looking for old books, in fact. After blowing the dust
off, I found...

Penguin dictionary of mathematics : 'The result of dividing one number
or polynomial by another'.

Collins Gem Basic Facts, Mathematics : 'The quotient is the result
obtained when a division is performed'.

The collins book illustrated with an integer division with a
remainder, but neither stated it. Even if quotients go with
remainders, that only implies limited precision - not necessarily
integers. e.g.

  To one decimal place, 0.2 ? 0.3 = 0.0 (remainder 0.2)

In the books I think of as currently useful (eg Advanced Engineering
Mathematics 7th edition, Erwin Kreyszig) it's hardly surprising that
all I found was a couple of brief references to complex division and
the quotient rule for differentiation. What was interesting, however,
was that both of these uses of quotient were in non-integer contexts.

The most interesting quote I found was the following, however...

"""
In any division process where the dividend is not a multiple of the
divisor, there will be a remainder involved.
"""

This seems to imply type. If you are working in the set of reals (or
rationals, or complex numbers), then any divisor other than zero can
be multiplied by some definite value to exactly recreate the dividend.
This is not true for division of integers, nor for division of
polynomials - nor strictly for floats or fixed point numbers.

Of course no single book is definitive of any field, but I did look in
quite a few. It pretty much reflects my previous statement that there
is no single definition of division in mathematics, yet there is no
need for type-specific notations (although additional notations may be
useful in some specialist fields).

The only basic pattern I see is that the following identity is
expected to hold...

  (quotient * divisor) + remainder == dividend

When dealing with a type (a set of numbers or whatever) where exact
division is achievable, the remainder becomes redundant.

In short, the term 'quotient' seems a very good mathematical term for
the division operator we have now - all the definitions I can find in
books of mathematics imply that the result is sensitive to the types
of the arguments.

The term 'ratio' seems to be consistently defined along the lines of
'a method of comparing two numbers measured in similar units by
considering the quotient of the two quantities'. This actually
surprised me, as of course ratios are usually expressed in terms such
as '2:3' - which implies, but does not contain, the quotient. Ratios
for me are simply an alternate notation for rationals.

In any case, explicitly narrowing the definitions of a selection of
words to suit a particular distinction in a particular field is quite
common in mathematics and elsewhere, so doing it here is at the very
least a continuation of a fine tradition and yet another example of
how human language is also sensitive to the context in which it is
used. And it is not insulting.

Referring to 'division in the domain of the arguments type unless that
type happens to be integers' (a rather odd type, to say the least) as
'correct' division *is* insulting to anyone who happens to disagree
with the claim that that form of division is somehow inherently better
than simple 'division in the domain of the arguments type'.

>And I disagree.  "Quotient" suggests to me truncation toward zero,
>rather than truncation toward -infinity.

As for rounding toward zero rather than -infinity, that fits with my
typical expectations as well but it's a case of which simplified
identities (ie excluding the remainder) do you want to preserve when
exact division is not possible.

For me, -(a/b) == (-a)/b is an *obvious* identity to preserve - but
that does not necessarily mean it works well in a programming context.
Rounding to -inf may be much more practical, though I find most
integer division rarely involves negative values which makes it a bit
of a non-issue.



From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 22 08:34:15 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:34:15 -0700
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
References: <3b8394bf.3928488@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9m095f$bh95c$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Wouldn't the shortest entry in sys.path ending in lib give this to you?  If
you're concerned that the path may have been tweaked maybe:

 o = os.popen('python -c "import sys;print sys.path"').read()

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Dinu Gherman" <dinu at reportlab.com> wrote in message
news:3b8394bf.3928488 at news.t-online.de...
> Hi,
>
> I wonder if there is a way to tell if a module is
> part of the standard library or not, when you scan
> over Python source code and handle import statement
> "events"?
>
> Note that I'm not interested in the complexities of
> loading a module named "copy" that sits in the cur-
> rent directory, shadowing the one in the standard
> library, though...
>
> I think all I like to know is if there is a cross-
> platform way to (normally) find out from these
> lines:
>
>   >>> import copy
>   >>> copy.__file__
>   'c:\\programs\\python21\\lib\\copy.pyc'
>   >>> import xmlpp
>   >>> xmlpp.__file__
>   'c:\\users\\gherman\\python\\lib\\xmlpp.py'
>   >>>
>
> that 'c:\\programs\\python21\\lib' is the folder
> in which the standard library is installed?
>
> Of course, this should work without having to im-
> port all or even a large fraction of some known
> standard modules and verify if their __file__
> attribute's directory part is the same...
>
> Ideally, one would not need to import anything, but
> could simply check for an import statement event (on
> the code level) if the module name exists in the fol-
> der of the standard library or not (modulo some sha-
> dowing effects).
>
> Or, to put it differently: how do I find the stan-
> dard library's installation folder without importing
> anything?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dinu
>
> --
> Dinu C. Gherman
> dinu at reportlab dot com
> http://www.reportlab.com
> ................................................................
> "The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
> sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or
> not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well,
> and the project goes down the drain."
>                     (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")



From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 02:48:16 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 06:48:16 GMT
Subject: [Q] Python and Path 
References: <Slff7.6824$A3.50199@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <QiJf7.135511$g_3.21629887@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

You can either append the path to sys.path:
import sys
sys.path.append (PathOfCode)

Or, if you do not want to deal with appending this to sys.path, check your
environment for PYTHONWIN setting and create it if it is not there.  Then
add the path to this setting:
In Win NT:  right click on My Computer and check Environment tab.  If
PYTHONWIN is not there, create it and set path there.  If setting is there,
add path to it.
In WIN ME:  run msconfig, and add setting through Environment tab.
In Win 95/98/98SE:  In autoexec.bat add:
SET PYTHONWIN = Paths to libs
Maan

"Young-Jin Lee" <ylee12 at uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:Slff7.6824$A3.50199 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> Hi, I have a question on Python and path.
> How can I tell Python to search a python source file in a specify
directory?
> I created a python test code in my working directory and I lauchched the
> Python interpreter from the desktop shortcut. I need to be able to specify
> the path (similar to Java's classpath), but I don't know how.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> YL
>
>




From wysNO_SPAM at helbling.ch  Thu Aug 16 05:45:22 2001
From: wysNO_SPAM at helbling.ch (Clemens Wyss)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:45:22 +0200
Subject: distributing python programs to non-geeks
References: <c1eb87b.0108160130.519f68d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B9632.7070906@helbling.ch>

As for Ruby you can try rb2exe (http://jarh.hoops.livedoor.com/).
No Ruby-Installation required!

Clemens

Nivel Otri wrote:

> I've got some python and ruby scripts that some people have expressed
> an interest in being able to run, but most get scared away by having
> to go to install python/ruby, set up a directory for the scripts, etc.
>  (All are using some flavor of Windows.)
> 
> What would be ideal would be a way of generating a Windows installer
> for a python/ruby script, complete with an icon that can go on the
> desktop or in the start menu.  You would download the installer, run
> it, then double-click on the icon it generates, and it would run just
> like any other executable.  Obviously the installer would have to
> install python/ruby if it isn't there, and the icon would really fire
> up python/ruby with the arguments pointing to the script, etc., but
> all of this could be transparent to the user, so that it looks like
> any other installer and executable.
> 
> Has anything like this been done?  Or if not for python or ruby, is
> there another decent scripting language that would make it easy to do
> this kind of non-intimidating distribution?
> 
> Thanks!
> 



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Aug 24 12:01:12 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:01:12 -0700
Subject: Deriving from Exception (was Re: reducing if statements and error handling)
References: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com> <3b8263ad$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <9m5to8$j0$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3b8263ad$1_1 at news5.uncensored-news.com>,
Doug Fort  <doug.fort at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>With regards to number 2), I find that when I use exceptions judiciously I 
>don't need to have functions return a 'success' value. You can define 
>custom exceptions easily. It's a good idea to derive them from Exception, 
>but not absolutely neccessary.

Yes, it is absolutely necessary.  It's not currently enforced, but Guido
has declared that it will be at some point in the future.  New code
should *always* derive from Exception (or one of its subclasses).
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From jcg at argonet.co.uk  Sun Aug 19 16:56:58 2001
From: jcg at argonet.co.uk (Mr J C Greenwood)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:56:58 +0100
Subject: Python on riscos
Message-ID: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk>

I want to run a programme, ITS-0/0, which I have downloaded from
www.maitint. org. 

It uses Python, so I downloaded several archives from
www.schwertberger.dusnet.de/python.html including !Python, !NumPy and a
directory wimpy. I'm not sure what does what.

If I double-click on !Python I get a message:

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Python 2.1 (#12, Apr 18 2001, 20:59:37) [C] on RISCOS
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 

What do I need to do to run ITS-0/0?

I have a RiscPC 600 with a Strong ARM and RISCOS 4.02

John

-- 
John Greenwood                            jcg at argonet.co.uk

Loughborough, in the middle of England



From ianm at panix.com  Tue Aug  7 00:43:33 2001
From: ianm at panix.com (Ian McGowan)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 04:43:33 GMT
Subject: Python for AIX?
References: <3B6BC91E.7040000@interia.pl>
Message-ID: <9knrll$sum$1@news.panix.com>

schen <schen at interia.pl> wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find python binaries compiled for AIX? Thanks.

http://www.bull.de/freeware

hth,
ian


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 00:30:10 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:30:10 -0500
Subject: is this a bug?
In-Reply-To: <3B7B39A0.6C09FBBE@theworld.com>
References: <3B7AF5AA.977B331C@iit.demokritos.gr>
        <mailman.997919305.11155.python-list@python.org>
        <3B7B39A0.6C09FBBE@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <15227.19538.609000.847428@beluga.mojam.com>

    David> Hmmm, I am sure there is a simple explanation.  From the quickee
    David> variation of you example below, I infer that the Python compiler
    David> uses a dictionary for storing literals, so that only 1 copy is of
    David> each unique literal is kept at compile time.  

Give that man a cigar, but smoke half of it first... ;-)  Right idea, but a
couple details are off.

Yes, the string (and int and float) literals as well as None are stored in a
tuple of constants in the code object created for each function (None is
always f.func_code.co_consts[0], even when it's not mentioned in the Python
code):

    >>> def f():
    ...   a="+="
    ...   print a is a
    ...   print a is "+="
    ... 
    >>> f()
    1
    1
    >>> f.func_code.co_consts
    (None, '+=')

Not stored by the current compiler are tuples or complex numbers of the form
N+Mj where N and M are ints or floats, but have to be built up using
multiple bytecode instructions:

    >>> def g():
    ...   a = (1,2,3)
    ...   c = 1.0+8j
    ... 
    >>> g.func_code.co_consts
    (None, 1, 2, 3, 1.0, 8j)
    >>> import dis
    >>> dis.dis(g)
              0 SET_LINENO               1

              3 SET_LINENO               2
              6 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)          <----
              9 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)          <----
             12 LOAD_CONST               3 (3)          <----
             15 BUILD_TUPLE              3              <----
             18 STORE_FAST               1 (a)

             21 SET_LINENO               3
             24 LOAD_CONST               4 (1.0)        <----
             27 LOAD_CONST               5 (8j)         <----
             30 BINARY_ADD                              <----
             31 STORE_FAST               0 (c)
             34 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             37 RETURN_VALUE        

don't-you-just-love-introspection?-ly, y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From neal at metaslash.com  Sun Aug 12 12:06:33 2001
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:06:33 -0400
Subject: ANN: PyChecker v0.8.2
Message-ID: <3B76A989.129C3E29@metaslash.com>

I've put a new version of PyChecker up on SourceForge.
This release fixes several spurious warnings and adds
new configuration options to turn off warnings.
There are also a few checks added.

But the big feature that most people have probably been waiting for
has been added:

	Missing doc strings are no longer warned about by default. :-)

Many of these changes are due to feedback, so if I haven't addressed 
your pet peeve, let me know.

Changes in 0.8.2:
  * Check format strings even if using global & local constants
  * Add check that [].append() only takes one argument
  * Add check that # parameters are correct for builtin functions
  * Add warnings for --, ++, ~~:
        "Operator (%s) doesn't exist, statement has no effect"
  * Add -Q/--quiet to be real quiet, only output warning msgs, nothing else
  * Add -y/--classattr config option (warning was not configurable before)
        (warn if class attribute doesn't exist)
  * Add -x/--miximport config option (warning was not configurable before)
        (warn if mixing: import/from ... import)
  * Add -u/--callinit config option (warning was not configurable before)
        (warn if Subclass.__init__() not called)
  * Add constants together on stack when get + to avoid some spurious warnings
  * Fix method and attribute checks for None and Ellipsis
  * Fix spurious warnings when doing a local import and use module in lambda
  * Fix spurious warnings when object attribute has same name as class
  * Fix Object (x) has no attribute warnings for Python 2.2a1 built-in types
  * Change default behaviour to not warn about missing doc strings

Changes since 0.8.1:
  * Fix internal error when referencing a list constant:  [1,2,3][1]
  * Fix internal error for Python 1.5 not catching unicode syntax error
  * Fix deprecation warning for Python 2.2a1 with xrange
  * Fix spurious warning (No module attribute) when doing import x.y as y
  * Fix spurious warning (Base __init__() not called) when using *args or **kw
  * Fix 'No module attribute' warning when doing:  import foo.bar as bar
  * Spell overridden write

PyChecker is available on Source Forge:
    Web page:           http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/
    Project page:       http://sourceforge.net/projects/pychecker/

Neal
--
pychecker at metaslash.com



From gioco at nekhem.com  Mon Aug 13 13:09:45 2001
From: gioco at nekhem.com (Corrado Gioannini)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:09:45 +0200
Subject: initializing modules?
Message-ID: <20010813190945.E788@zephyr>

hi all, 
i have some general functions that i want to be used within different
modules. those functions are defined when i launch the main script
(they depend on some parameters read from a configfile, whose name is passed
on the command line).
i'd like to put them in a separate module to be imported from the other
modules, but i need to 'initialize' them when i run the main script.
how can i approach this problem in a better way?

here's a simplified version of the problem:

--------main.py----------
t = 'long text read from config file '

def f(s):
    return t+s

from modA import classA

a = classA().methodA()
print a
-------------------------

--------modA.py----------
class classA:
    def __init__(self):
        self.txt = 'plus other things'
    def methodA(self):
        return 'method A returns %s. hope you like" % f(self.txt)
-------------------------

of course this won't work beacuse f will not be found in modA
i could do something like:

class classA:
    def __init__(self,g):
        self.f = g['f']
        self.txt = 'plus other things'

in modA.py and then call

a = classA(globals()).methodA()

inside main.py. but this is very ugly imho. and i should replicate it for
different functions and lots of classes.

so i thougth that the best thing should be to put the definition of f in a
modF.py, and then put a "from modF import *" line at the beginning of each
module, like modA, which uses it... 
if only i could do something like a 'module initialization'. 
at this point i realized there was something wrong in my approach :)

(ah, i cannot just read the configfile inside modF, because inside main.py i
do some computation using configfile's parameters before defining the
functions. to do all this just once is my aim.)

thanks for your help.
Corrado.
-- 

Corrado Gioannini
<gioco at nekhem.com>

"Thought is only a flash between two long nights,
                                         but this flash is everything."
                                                          (H. Poincar?)
		      



From chris at cmb-enterprises.com  Tue Aug 28 23:45:48 2001
From: chris at cmb-enterprises.com (Chris Dutton)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:45:48 -0400
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999027702.15146.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B7B1DDAC.94E7%chris@cmb-enterprises.com>

in article mailman.999027702.15146.python-list at python.org, Shane Anglin at
shane.anglin at mtni.net wrote on 8/28/01 3:39 PM:

> Non-working example:
> --app1.py:
> print "<FORM METHOD='POST' ACTION='app2.py'>
> print '<input type="text" size="10" name="var1">'
> print "<P><INPUT type='submit' value='Submit'></P>"
> </FORM>
> #SUBMIT
> 
> --app2.py:
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> VAR1 = form["var1"].value

At least using Python 2.0 on a FreeBSD webserver, this could possibly raise
an exception.

instead use

try: 
   VAR1 = form['var1'].value
except: 
   VAR1 = ''

if the person submitting the form leaves the "var1" textfield blank,
cgi.FieldStorage() won't know form['var1'].value exists.

As for the rest... """ is your friend.



From someone at home.com  Sat Aug 11 13:42:44 2001
From: someone at home.com (SRK)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:42:44 -0400
Subject: Zope 2.4 as W2k service
Message-ID: <U4ed7.1652$96.1539@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

Hi.  I'm sorry to post in the python newsgroup, but I can't seem to find a
Zope newsgroup.  My problem is with the lastest Zope 2.4 distribution for
Windows.  For some reason, running Zope as a service will gradually corrupt
the entire OS.  First, the network in the control panel stopped working, and
then some other applications, and then media player.  I'm reluctant to
install Zope again, but I do need to have it for development purposes.  Does
anyone have this problem?  And are there any solutions?

Thanks in advance.
SRKECHKN




From shayman at uniserve.com  Fri Aug 31 22:53:04 2001
From: shayman at uniserve.com (FMH)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:53:04 -0700
Subject: newbie.string.listless
Message-ID: <tp0j1dn37gve9d@corp.supernews.com>

Hi
Trying to  to process a  list and use a string function on each item in the
list, then return a new list with the Capitalized items.  The output is
correct but how do you capture it to a  new list.  I realize you can't use a
string function on a list but by making a list copy and iterating over the
items shouldn't this work.

Thanks


names = ["one,"who","two","three"]

for i in names[:]:
 if i in names[:]:
  i = string.capitalize(i)
  print i,


One Who Two Three
>>> i
'Three'




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 04:30:37 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:30:37 +0200
Subject: Why use Python?
References: <Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <9mi97e0s9j@enews1.newsguy.com>

"CoffeeKid" <coffeekid at pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160 at news.pacbell.net...
> Can somebody tell me why I would want to use Python over VB
> for Windows programming?  I've seen several comparisons between
> Python and other language but not VB yet.

With Python you don't get all the rich environment of tools
that come with VB, but you get a much better language.  And
it doesn't have to be either-or: if for example you like the
way you paint GUI's with VB (I think they look tacky, but
tastes differ), you can keep painting them that way AND still
keep your "business logic" in Python thanks to the magic of
COM.  O'Reilly's book on "Python Programming in Win32" does
a very good job covering coexistence between Python and such
other languages as VB or Delphi -- it doesn't have to be a
one-language world:-).


Alex





From tom-list at home.com  Sun Aug 19 23:35:44 2001
From: tom-list at home.com (Tom)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:35:44 -0400
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b808575$1_1@Usenet.com>

> [Thomas]
> >>> ...
> >>> - For timing, the clock() call in the windows CRT yields rather
> >>>   innacurate data, so I had to use a Win32 call.
>
> [Tim]
> >> Note that *Python's* time.clock() on Windows uses the Win32
> >> QueryPerformanceCounter() call, which has better than microsecond
> >> resolution on virtually all Windows boxes.
>
> [Thomas]
> > Yup, that's the call I'm using.  But initially I tried using the
> > CRT clock() function (I seem to remember that this is the function
> > used by the Python profiler).
>
>[Tim]
> I don't understand.  The Python profiler is written in Python, and uses
> Python's time.clock(); it couldn't use a random C library function even if
> it wanted to.  Python's time.clock() did call the msvcrt clock() on
Windows
> until early 1997, but has used QueryPerfomanceCouter() since then (ironic:
> except on Win64!  QueryPerformanceCounter hadn't yet been implemented for
> Win64 when Trent Mick did that port).

Oh.

I had thought the Python profiler was written partly in C.  Guess not.

Tom.



 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------        
                http://www.usenet.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:32:19 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:32:19 +0200
Subject: What is a Function?
References: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com> <5hipnt8p1selgoj8p7cdj72etrjq9mam8m@4ax.com> <mailman.998035714.27206.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ljh16024rl@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Richard Jones" <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.998035714.27206.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> Sorry, gotta ask... what's an "amed" part of code? :)

One subjected to the tender loving care of A.M., of course
(that's me, btw).  Didn't know I had been verbed yet,
but, it IS a honor.


Alex





From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 10:00:00 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:00:00 +0200
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net> <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu> <9m5nkv$ft15$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3b86a05d.354015106@wa.news.verio.net> <9m69li$kie6$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9mdjp002f5p@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:9m69li$kie6$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
    ...
> As far as it being effectively the same as eval, it looks like that to me,
> but someone else will have to explain what differences there may be.  I
get
> similar results for all of:
>
> >>> exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})
> 4
> >>> eval(a.func_code, {'b':4})
> 4
> >>> exec a.func_code in {'b':4}
> 4
> >>>

You're letting the interpreter's convenient displayhook fool you.
Try instead:

>>> def a(): return b
...
>>> print repr(exec(a.func_code, {'b':4}))
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print repr(exec(a.func_code, {'b':4}))
                  ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> print repr(eval(a.func_code, {'b':4}))
4
>>>

and you see there are quite a few differences:-).


Alex





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 22:06:50 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 19:06:50 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7B239E.C08F8DCD@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <7xae10rc5h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Joal Heagney <s713221 at student.gu.edu.au> writes:
> Out of curiosity, is there a reason (e.g. curiosity on your part?)
> you're not using:
> 
> N = 100
> sum = N*(N+1)/2
> 
> which returns the sum of the first 100 integers much more quickly?

It was just a simple example to illustrate my question about how the
range function worked.  Of course I wouldn't code it that way in real
life.


From nstalkie at tvd.be  Wed Aug  8 16:24:15 2001
From: nstalkie at tvd.be (Sammy Mannaert)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:24:15 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
	 <mailman.997291213.16968.python-list@python.org> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081323420.1251-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <3B71A20E.CA0E0BB4@tvd.be>

Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> 
> He he, yes, that other stuff is going just a tad overboard :-)   But I
> thought the Python site could notify that more than Emacs has Python
> support (it does this already, but only for two editors, and Jed is a
> lot like Emacs, IMHO).  Sorry.
> 

Jed is indeed a lot like emacs. i even think that the purpose
of jed was to make a lightweight emacs ...

i'm not sure about this though.


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Sat Aug 25 07:35:44 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:35:44 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
References: <7xitfcil5r.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m82ig$6bh$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
> Any thoughts on how these compare?  Which would you use to write
> a simple gui application?  How about a fancy application?

> I've been playing with Tkinter for a few hours and have some sense
> of its capabilities.  I've never programmed Qt or PyQt at all and
> have no idea what they're like from a programming perspective, but
> am pretty impressed with KDE applications I've used.

Well, take a look at http://stage.linuxports.com/pyqt/book1.htm for the
first draft of  my book on PyQt (I should be writing the chapters on
translating applications and making installation packages now, in fact)
- especially http://stage.linuxports.com/pyqt/c280.htm, which introduces
the toolkit.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 20:42:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:42 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Language Niches (long)
References: <mailman.996449995.2167.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20010804014247.16469w@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <mailman.996449995.2167.python-list at python.org>, 
robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker) wrote:

> In message <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGGEEPDKAA.rcalco at cortechs.com>, Bob Calco
> <rcalco at cortechs.com> writes
> 
> I hesitated to mention ADA as it is (so far as I'm aware) the only
> computer programming language to have won a standardized selection
> process. It has been an utter failure outside the DOD despite the fact
> that it does indeed have a dedicated following.

It has a significant following outside the DoD, in the mission-critical 
(especially safety-critical) software community. There are two main issues 
with Ada, one cultural, one technical. The cultural one is that it's a 
Bondage and Discipline language that can be clean and efficient to work 
with but most certainly is not /fun/. That means that a lot of programmers 
will fight by fair means or foul to replace it with a fun language. The 
technical issue is that, in the classic quote (CAR Hoare?), Inside Ada 
there's a really neat little language trying to get out [1]. The language 
is hugely bloated, and critical applications use formally defined safe 
subsets.

[1] Someone else once commented "And the really neat language is actually 
Modula II" :-)


From Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com  Fri Aug 10 10:40:38 2001
From: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com (Lindstrom Greg - glinds)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:40:38 -0500
Subject: Python 1.5 v Python 2.1
Message-ID: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D0BD87E2C@conmsx03.conway.acxiom.com>

I have a friend on my test team wanting to move to Python 2.1 on his windows
2000 box. He is currently running Python 1.5.2 and has lots of existing test
code that he still wants to use. When he installed Python 2.1 and ran his
first routine he saw: "dlls for 1.5 conflicting with version 2.1". I know
there is an issue with the socket routine, but what's causing this, and how
can I fix it for him?

Thanks!

Greg Lindstrom
Acxiom Corporation,                    mail: CWY10011149
InfoBase Products Development                  office: (501) 342-1626
301 Industrial Blvd, Conway, AR, 72032     fax:     (501) 336-3911 
email: Greg.Lindstrom at acxiom.com           

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -- Bertrand
Russell






From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Fri Aug 31 17:09:42 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:09:42 -0700
Subject: AttributeError: last_traceback
Message-ID: <3B8FFD16.E388525E@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

I have a section of code similar to this:

    try:
      exec(  <SOMETHING> )
    except:
      print traceback.print_exc()

This is so exceptions don't bring down my program.  And some errors, I
can ignor.  However, some errors I need to debug.  For the errors I want
to debug, I'd like to uses "pdb.pm()"  however, I always get
"AttributeError: last_traceback" with "pdb.pm()"  Understandably, this
is because noe exception was loged, because I caught it.  

Is there a way I can catch exceptions and still use pdb.pm()?
Thanks.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From adrian at xemacs.org  Sun Aug 12 09:48:37 2001
From: adrian at xemacs.org (Adrian Aichner)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 15:48:37 +0200
Subject: gnus/nnml to mbox converter with python
References: <87g0aybfki.fsf@harry.my.net>
Message-ID: <g0axqthm.fsf@ecf.teradyne.com>

>>>>> "Ulf" == Ulf Kister <ulf.kister at t-online.de> writes:

    Ulf> Hi,

    Ulf> I am considering writing a tool to convert mails out of the
    Ulf> gnus/nnml mailspool format to ordinary mbox format (with
    Ulf> python).

    Ulf> Before rolling up the sleeves I wanted to know if something
    Ulf> similar has been done before.

You'll be glad you asked!

Gnus can do this for you.

Check this one out:

(Info-goto-node "(gnus)Mail Group Commands")

In particular:

`B r'
     Respool the mail article (`gnus-summary-respool-article').
     `gnus-summary-respool-default-method' will be used as the default
     select method when respooling.  This variable is `nil' by default,
     which means that the current group select method will be used
     instead.  Marks will be preserved if GNUS-PRESERVE-MARKS is
     non-`nil' (which is the default).

    Ulf> tia, Ulf

    Ulf> -- 
    Ulf> gpg public key at http://www.keyserver.net/

-- 
Adrian Aichner
 mailto:adrian at xemacs.org
 http://www.xemacs.org/


From jussij at zeusedit.com  Wed Aug 29 23:59:06 2001
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:59:06 +1000
Subject: Python Debugger Question?
Message-ID: <3B8DBA0A.57B3@zeusedit.com>

I have a question regarding the debugger and Python 1.51.

I am attempting to control the debugger using a windows
application by running the debugger with the standard output 
and standard error captured and by sending commands to the
running debugger via standard input.

So for example I would run the debugger as follows:

   python.exe d:/python/lib/pdb.py d:/temp/primes.py

And then I would send the running debugger commands
via the standard input:

   step
   step
   step
   step
   help
   help
   kill
   quit

But unfortunately these commands do not generate any
output on the capture stdout or stderr.

But thestrange thing is that when I kill the debug
session the output then comes in via these captured
handles as shown below:

   > <string>(0)?()
   (Pdb) > <string>(1)?()
   (Pdb) > d:/temp/primes.py(0)?()
   (Pdb) > d:/temp/primes.py(5)?()
   -> def main():

To me it appears that somehow the debugger output is 
is not getting flushed?  

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Regards Jussi Jumppanen
jussij at zeusedit.com



From eric at enthought.com  Sun Aug 19 23:03:35 2001
From: eric at enthought.com (eric jones)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 03:03:35 GMT
Subject: ANN: SciPy 0.10 -- Scientific Computing with Python
Message-ID: <b6%f7.145881$g_3.22791856@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Enthought is pleased to announce SciPy 0.10 available at:

                    www.scipy.org.

SciPy is an open source package that builds on the
strengths of Python and Numeric providing a wide range of
fast scientific and numeric functionality. SciPy's current module
set includes the following:

    Special Functions (Bessel, hanker, Airy, etc.)
    Signal/Image Processing
    2D Plotting capabilities
    Integration
    ODE solvers
    Optimization (simplex, BFGS, Netwon-CG, etc.)
    Genetic Algorithms
    Numeric -> C++ expression compiler
    Parallel programming tools
    Splines and Interpolation
    And other stuff.

Compatibility:

    SciPy relies on Python 2.1 and Numeric 20.1 (which is included
    in the binaries). It might work with other versions but nothing
    else has been tested.

License Style:

    The license is currently BSD for the 0.10 release. It could change
    to something like the Python license in the future.  Whatever the
    choice, it'll be of the "free for both non-commercial and
    commercial use, just don't sue us" style.

Mailing Lists:

        scipy-dev at scipy.org
        scipy-user at scipy.org
        searchable archives are also available at www.scipy.org

The Site:

    www.scipy.org is a community site based on Zope.  Please use its
    interactivity to host your own scientific modules, comment on pages,
    and engage in discussions (wiki-style).

Many thanks to:

    Travis Oliphant who has made huge code and infrastructure
    contributions.

    Jim Huginin, Paul Dubois, and the rest of the Numeric
    gang for building and maintaining such a powerful tool
    for scientific programming.

    The Numeric wizards that have built www.netlib.org into the
    treasure trove that it is.

    GvR and the many Python contributors for such a nice language.

Warning:

    If the 0.10 release number isn't plain enough, let me spell it
    out.  This is an alpha  release.  While much of it is very
    useable, many bugs remain.  Documentation
    exists but is still spotty.  Installation is tested on Windows
    and Linux, but still breaks occasionally.  Plotting still has
    kinks.  And many other issues.  The point of this release is
    to provide a technology preview and to solicit help with
    both finding bugs and code development.

    One other thing:  INTERFACES WILL LIKELY CHANGE!
    Function names, module names, calling conventions, etc. are
    still in flux. 0.20 will definitely not be backwards compatible
    with 0.10.  However, we'll work hard to get this stabilized as
    quickly as feasible (but not any quicker).






From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Aug 26 11:15:55 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:15:55 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com> <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet> <mailman.998777619.14219.python-list@python.org> <3b8881df.477281404@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3B8912AB.A37FC2C0@engcorp.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:12:36 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> [...]
> >
> >You're talking about two different things.  The standard indentation is four
> >spaces, but if you treat a TAB character as eight spaces you'll be okay
> >(though with "python -t" you might get some indentation warnings).  It's
> >when you treat a TAB character as something other than 8 spaces that mixing
> >spaces and TABs becomes a problem.
> >
> You don't literally mean that '\t' becomes ' '*8 ??

I don't think he really meant that.  Referring to TABs as
eight spaces is easier than talking about:

> are 0-79, a tab from column c goes to (c&~7)+8, so, e.g.,

..in casual conversation, not a strict definition.  (But it
sure does confuse people who don't know any better.)

> Ugh, I just tried this with python in an interactive NT
> console window (which tabs 8):
> (I've put in spaces to preserve the way it looked)
>  >>> def z():
>  ...     print 'tabbed indent'
>  ...         print '8-space indent'
>  ...
>  >>> z()
>  tabbed indent
>  8-space indent
>  >>>
> 
> That's ugly. 

I agree!  Unfortunately I suppose it's probably somewhat 
necessary, since the two prompts are programmable and therefore
you have no guarantee what size they are.  You would have to 
guess where the TAB took you on-screen, and if you allow 
control characters you'd get real messed up.  For example,

>>> import sys
>>> sys.ps2 = ''
>>> def z():
        print 'tabbed'
        print 'spaced'

>>> z()
tabbed
spaced
>>>

> IMHO indentation that looks aligned ought to act aligned,
> irrespective of tab/space mix. 

Agreed, but since the definition of Python indentation doesn't
take into account the interactive console's prompts and the
effect they have on the visual effect of TABs when sent to the
terminal (which are relative to the real left column, not the
virtual one created by the prompts), I don't think you can fix this.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Aug 11 16:14:47 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:14:47 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Zope 2.4 as W2k service
In-Reply-To: <U4ed7.1652$96.1539@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108120013440.7691-100000@phd.fep.ru>

Hello!

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, SRK wrote:
> Hi.  I'm sorry to post in the python newsgroup, but I can't seem to find a
> Zope newsgroup.

   We don't have a newgroup, but we have mail lists. Visit zope.org web
site and subscribe to zope mail list. Welcome!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 26 00:19:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:19:54 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <JeFh7.132337$EP6.37027070@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEBJLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Terry Reedy]
> ...
> You example reminded me of a different use for variable indentaton:
> outlines, such as I did in school.  (Yes, some styles uses letters and
> numbers to redundantly indicate depth, but not all do.)  I wonder if
> the people who do not like semantic indents might be people who did not
> like doing outlines in school.

Interesting observation!  I still write todo lists and project plans as
indented outlines (sans redundant markers), and writing Python code felt
utterly natural the first time I tried it -- except for the trailing colon
on block openers.  That took 15 minutes to get used to, and for some
unfathomable reason I never forgot one after my first Python day, yet I
haven't adopted the same convention for other outlining purposes.

Hmm.  The idea that someone could dislike outlining is so foreign to me I'd
be hard pressed to consider such a one human.

eat-with-your-nose-or-sleep-like-a-bat-just-don't-diss-outlining-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Thu Aug 30 12:50:14 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:50:14 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <mailman.999153826.27100.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b8e6d04.14344968@news.t-online.de>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:40:14 +1000, Richard Jones
<richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> wrote:

>So, what's the call:
>
>   def foo():
>      return 1
>   a = foo
>
>Does that assign a to the function object, as it does at the moment, or does 
>it assign a to 1?

Alex Martelli wrote:

> And of course there's no problem interpreting whether:
>    blobber plikke
>means:
>    blobber(plikke)
>or:
>    blobber(plikke())

Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own print
function - er - statement. So, is "print = foo" a valid statement? No.
Is "print plikke" ambiguous? No. Is "print plikke()" ambiguous? No. So
what is the problem? Just add the tiny little restriction that there
is only one statement-like-function-call-per-instruction (separating
by ; should work naturally) and you have a (IMHO neat) syntax trick.

Maybe you're too much reminded of the way this works in Perl & VB.
But please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour, and
couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you have
to enclose the arguments in brackets.



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Aug 22 22:19:52 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:19:52 +0200
Subject: API Fuction  ??
References: <mailman.998530113.21001.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <88p1m9.go1.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:25:11 +1000, Kim C Tran <KCT at EMIA.com.au> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Is there a function that I can display a list of users in server and 
>when they last log on ??
>API function may be ??

If this is really a Python question (??), please say which type of server you
are talking about.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Thu Aug 23 12:29:27 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:29:27 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
Message-ID: <20010823122927.H7964@naxos.starmedia.net>

After a couple of Betas, version 3.0 of The SkunkWeb Web Application
Server has just been released.

The release is available from the SkunkWeb home page at
	http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net

or directly from 
        http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/skunkweb/skunkweb-3.0.tgz

What's new?
------------------------------
* Fixes to the demo docs due to changes at slashdot and freshmeat
* Fix to remove an erroneous SyntaxWarning
* no longer require GNU xargs, GNU find or GNU bash
* PyDO now should work with Python 2.2
* PyDO PostgreSQL connection fixes
* sessionHandler fixes
* <:sendmail:> tag fixed
* configure cleanups

What is it?
------------------------------
SkunkWeb is (yet another) web application server.  The things that make it
different from other app servers are:

Uses Python
	* Python is easy to learn for both new programmers and experts alike
	* senior programmer types like it too (vs. say tcl)
        * extensible with Python, of course
	* extensible with C/C++ for speed and/or linkage to C/C++ libraries
          via static *or* dynamic linking

Extensible
	* Relatively simple extension API
	* can easily handle authentication, custom url building/parsing 
          schemes and custom tags

Encourages component based design
	* more than just "include"
	* not just another ASP/JSP like thing
	* a powerful templating language 
	* encouraged by caching options (see below)
	* component output can be either HTML or Python objects
	* can write components in either STML or Python
	* can also call components on other skunkweb servers
	
Message Catalogs
	* makes multi-lingual sites much easier
	* support variable substitution in messages

Speed
	* templates are compiled to Python bytecode
	* extensive caching (to disk and optionally memory) of:
		o compiled forms of templates
		o digested message catalogs
		o output of components
		o python modules and python components
	* cache *is* sharable between machines if using a
	  shared filesystem! (can be more than one shared filesystem
          for speed, redundancy and flexibility)
	* caching is flexible and as finite as your disk space
	* components can be rendered after the response is sent if 
	  a slightly stale version is available --- resulting in
	  better response times via deferred components

Documentation
	* extensive documentation available in HTML, PostScript, PDF & text
          --well not yet, but getting there
	* have automatic documentation tools to generate documentation for 
	  STML templates (but don't use the manual stuff, it sucks).

Process Model
        * Uses multi-process, versus multi-threading which makes better
          use of multiple processors (because of the global interpreter
          lock in Python), and is safer in that if one process crashes, 
          it won't kill the entire server.

No magic (zodb <wink>).


Very best wishes to all,

-Drew

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 22:56:46 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 19:56:46 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B7A6E28.7EB7A9FF@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7xu1z8pv9t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > 
> > Python is really pleasant to code in and mostly well designed.  I just
> > keep hitting what seem like little lapses of common sense.
> 
> You might say that.  The good news is that what Guido did was
> substitute his own sense, which in the case of language design
> appears generally to be better than the "common" sense.

That's fair.  A consequence though is Python seems like a one-person
project, where Guido did a very good job on the parts he found
interesting, and left other parts somewhat half-baked.  

Python seems to be in a somewhat dangerous phase of development right
now, where a lot of the design still isn't worked out, but lots of
people are using it, which means any mistakes made are hard to undo
because people's code will break.  Instead, kludges get tacked on,
potentially resulting in an eventual Perl-like monstrosity (why is
there a special type of object for xrange?).  

If you look at the evolution of Scheme, the designers tried very hard
to get things right from the start, rather than doing what was
convenient and fixing it later.  

> Your questions are interesting (although they've been
> asked many, many times before), but hold back on judging
> the rationality of the design until you've spent more 
> time with Python and got a better feel for the type of 
> sense that was actually behind it. :-)

That's fair too.  Here's something I don't understand: why is it that
the default value of a function arg is evaluated just once, instead of
whenever the function is called?  The manual has a warning about that
and examples of how to program around it, but it seems like poor
design to need such a warning.


From altis at semi-retired.com  Thu Aug 16 14:35:11 2001
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:35:11 -0700
Subject: ANN: PythonCard prototype release 0.4.1
Message-ID: <_mUe7.524$LI5.191023@news.uswest.net>

PythonCard is a software construction kit (in the spirit of Apple's
HyperCard) written in Python.

You can download the latest release at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=19015

Samples included in the latest release: conversions, dialogs, findfiles,
minimal, proof, searchexplorer, sounds, SourceForgeTracker, tictactoe,
turtle, widgets, worldclock

To see screenshots of some of the samples, visit:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples.html

PythonCard home page
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

SourceForge summary page
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard/

Mailing list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pythoncard/


PythonCard requires Python 2.1 or later and wxPython 2.3.x. wxPython is
available at http://www.wxpython.org/

PythonCard relies on wxPython, it will support the Macintosh once wxPython
has been ported to the Mac.

PyCrust 0.5.2
PyCrust by Patrick K. O'Brien is included as part of the PythonCardPrototype
releases. If you would like to find our more about PyCrust or get a separate
distribution, please visit the home page at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust/


----------------------------
Changes since release 0.3.1 (2001-08-07):

The Property Editor is still only able to display widget
attributes, you'll have to use the Shell to actually change
an attribute. The Property Editor will work in the next
release, and this time I mean it. :)

Release 0.4.1 2001-08-16
updated debug.py and pycrustrc.py to support PyCrust 0.5.2
  due to changes between PyCrust 0.5.2 and earlier versions you
  must use the latest version of Pycrust with PythonCard, which
  is included in the release .zip for convenience
added 'border' attribute to TextField and its subclasses to support
  a 'none' wxNO_BORDER option. updated worldclock and
  test_widgets.py to show TextField with a border of 'none' used
  in place of StaticText
added empty bitmap support. Image and ImageButton now use
  the Bitmap class rather than an explicit wxBitmap. the convention
  is that if the file is '' then an empty bitmap is created.
  see SourceForgeTracker for an example of the use of empty bitmaps
  if the layout doesn't look right on Linux or Solaris, you can use
  the SourceForgeTracker.original.rsrc.py file by renaming it to
  SourceForgeTracker.rsrc.py
fixed worldclock and tictactoe samples to use Bitmap

Release 0.4 2001-08-14
added components dictionary
  find/findByName, createWidget, and deleteWidget were
  replaced by a dictionary, so that widgets on a background
  can be accessed as:
    self.components.button1
  see the samples for numerous examples of the new usage.
widgets now use dot notation to access their attributes
  print button1.label     # get
  button1.label = 'hello' # set
  This was a major revision to widget.py that also impacted
  many other parts of the framework, so if you have any samples
  of your own done with release 0.3.1 or earlier, you'll need
  to update your code.
updated all samples to use the new dot notation
all widget attributes that can only be set at initialization
  will now throw an AttributeError if you try and change
  them. for example button1.name = 'bob' is not legal
  so you get:
  'AttributeError: name attribute is read-only'
*** note that while updating all the widget attributes to dot
  notation I realized that we had never cleaned up the 'selected'
  attribute for List, RadioGroup, and Choice, so be aware that
  the name and behavior of 'selected' will probably change in
  the next release
PyCrust is now included as a separate package
  numerous changes were made to the PyCrust shell, see the
  PyCrust docs for more information.
fixed backgroundColor and foregroundColor in class Background
  the widgets sample has a button to change the backgroundColor
  to show off this fix.
added pycrustrc.py files
  whatever python code is in these files will be executed when the
  shell is first launched. there is a default pycrustrc.py in the
  package directory. there is another example in the turtle sample
  directory.
changed pythoncard.config.py
  added options to set the position and size of all the "debug"
  windows: Message Watcher, Property Editor, Shell
added pythoncard.user.config.py
  this file will override pythoncard.config.py if it exists
  you should copy pythoncard.user.config.py and
  update the position of each window for your own screen
  dimensions; you can update the shell size too
added defaultStackPosition option
  you can add a key:value line to pythoncard.user.config.py
  to override the stack position that a PythonCard app may or
  may not specify. The most common would be something like
  'defaultStackPosition':(5, 5),
  to force the window to the top-left of the screen (I prefer
  this over (0, 0) myself.
added 'Debug' menu
  if any of the 'debug' windows are requested when an application
  is started, then all of the windows will be created, but only
  the requested ones will be shown initially. you can choose
  the window name from the Debug menu to show/hide the window.
added an About PythonCard... menu item to the Debug menu
  displays version numbers and PythonCard project info
added SourceForgeTracker sample
  downloads XML from SourceForge tracker database to display
  Bug Reports and Feature Requests for the following projects:
  PyChecker, PyCrust, Python, PythonCard, wxPython. Additional
  projects can be added.
added conversions sample
  does Fahrenheit <-> Celsius and English <-> Morse Code
  conversions with a generic framework, so other conversions
  can be added
added tutorial.txt to docs
applications can now use the .pyw extension
  if you don't want an application to have a console window,
  then rename the application to .pyw, but don't change the
  file reference in the .rsrc.py file, leave that as .py
  as an example, you can change worldclock.py to worldclock.pyw


ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis at semi-retired.com





From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Thu Aug 23 12:31:36 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:31:36 +0200
Subject: REQ : Real.py
In-Reply-To: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it>
References: <9m2td3$h1k$1@pegasus.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108231827030.3890-100000@cens.ioc.ee>


On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Patrick wrote:

> Does someone knows where is the 'real.py' module that seems very useful and
> fast for number crunching ? The link on the Python Homepage is not valid (
> ftp://ftp.python.org/pub/python/contrib/Math/real-accurate.pyar ).

You might want to try GMPY:

http://gmpy.sourceforge.net/

for multiprecision arithmetics. It should give you fastest execution that
you can get in Python for doing arbitrary precision number crunching.

Regards,
	Pearu 



From giannozzo at arca.net  Tue Aug 21 02:04:30 2001
From: giannozzo at arca.net (Maurizio Manetti)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:04:30 GMT
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
References: <mailman.998323651.6595.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B81FB46.5876BAAA@arca.net>

Stefan Schukat wrote:

> The win32ui is not just a call into the windows API. It depends
> on the framework used. Normally this is used in an application
> which is based on the Python MFC wrapping by MarkH.

Thank you a lot for the explanation!

> The pure windows API is implemented in the win32api module in
> which your code would look like:
> 
> import win32con
> import win32api
> win32api.MessageBox(0, "Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)

That works fine!! Thanks!
 
> As you see there is an additional first parameter. This is
> the HANDLE to the parent window which is filled automagically
> in the win32ui environment.

But "0" is the HANDLE for which parent window, in this case?
 
> But that is not your problem. The problem is a small error
> in the win32ui implementation. Mark has used a windows hook
> to do the message routing. This hook was added twice by accident in
> a console app which caused an endless recursion and
> therefore a stack overflow in Win9X/ME, but not on WinNT/2000.
> The fix (more a hack) was included in the CVS sources at the 6. July.

That means I can download the source from the CVS and compile Python?
(I never compiled Python under Windows)

> So it may be included in ActivePython 211 (Ask Mark)
 
I downloaded and installed ActivePython 2.1.1 build 212 but the problem
is still there.
However I'll turn around it using directly the Windows API as you
suggested. Thank you very much.


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 09:55:47 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:55:47 GMT
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108091523350.1083-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997359736.9019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nibf3.ihu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

09 Aug 2001 08:26:37 -0400, Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> pisze:

> Observing myself, I noticed that I use "..." for text meant to be displayed
> and read by a human, and '...' for more internal, programmatic strings.

Hey, get away from my mind! I wrote my post before I saw yours :-)

Let me add that I planned to extend this idea for another language
in one of two ways:

- Treat '' as a hint for the compiler that it should intern the string.
  AFAIK Python currently does this for strings consisting of alphanumeric
  characters.

- Have symbols (and constructors for algebraic types) separate from strings
  and denote them by ''. Or even with identifiers starting with a capital
  letter, i.e. True is defined nowhere and always denotes the same value.

Finally I used neither idea. Symbols are generated by a function and
bound to identifiers with normal scoping rules, and they don't have
intrinsic textual representation. '' is waiting for its meaning.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From vcardon at siue.edu  Thu Aug  9 11:16:19 2001
From: vcardon at siue.edu (Victor R. Cardona)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:16:19 -0500
Subject: Problem: readline in Python 2.1 on SuSE 7.1
In-Reply-To: <slrn9n3q3s.8rv.huaiyu@linux.local>; from huaiyu@linux.local on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:33:34AM +0000
References: <slrn9n3q3s.8rv.huaiyu@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20010809101619.A10722@client156-52.ll.siue.edu>

On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 01:33:34AM +0000, Huaiyu Zhu wrote:
> Problem installing Python 2.1 on SuSE 7.1 with readline support.
> 
> I've tried several variations of the configuration options
> 
> #readline readline.c -lreadline -ltermcap
> #readline readline.c -lreadline
> #readline readline.c -L/usr/lib -lreadline
> readline readline.c -lreadline -L/usr/share/misc/termcap

I ran into the same problem. Here is my solution:

readline readline.c -lreadline -lncurses

I hope that helps.

-v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
 10:13am  up 18 days, 12:19,  3 users,  load average: 2.53, 2.34, 2.29
Powered by SuSE Linux 7.1 (i386) 2.4.5-64GB-SMP



From lee.r2d2 at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug  8 13:25:31 2001
From: lee.r2d2 at ntlworld.com (Lee)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:25:31 +0100
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
Message-ID: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>

Hi there, I wonder if someone could possibly tell me what is wrong with
the following statement. I'm extremely embarrased to ask but here
goes...

>>>  if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
    vowel='true'

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<pyshell#46>", line 1, in ?
    if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
TypeError: bad operand type(s) for |

---
fname[1] gives 'e'

Thanks very much in advance!

Lee



From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Sat Aug 11 22:40:23 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 02:40:23 GMT
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> <mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org> <3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org> <9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> <9kuic9$515$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> <cpvgjw91pa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l1ucl$f04$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <r0md7.252467$EF2.31917569@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Thomas Bellman <bellman at lysator.liu.se> menulis:
| 
| "God is real, but Jesus is an integer."

Satan is surely a float.

((10.0/3.0)*2)<>((2.0/3.0)*10)-ly y'rs, Cliff


-- 
Cliff Crawford                        http://www.sowrong.org/
"If only you could see what I have seen through your eyes..."


From rburnham at cri-inc.com  Fri Aug 10 16:11:13 2001
From: rburnham at cri-inc.com (Roger Burnham)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:11:13 GMT
Subject: Setting file creation date
References: <mailman.997454355.12463.python-list@python.org> <9l147s0tk3@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b743d2d.27148006@news-server.socal.rr.com>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:02:51 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:


>Which reminds me, SetFileTime lets you change those, and
>I don't know why win32file (part of the win32api) still does
>not make that call available according to the latest manual
>at URL [a single line, some sw will break it]:
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Reference/Products/ActivePython/Pyth
>onWin32Extensions/win32file.html
>
>Should be a C extension of a few lines, worst case.  Much
>simpler/faster than the rigmarole of change-date/copy-file/&c
>which I previously suggested.  Maybe calldll.pyd can help.
>

I had a need for this recently, but did not get it back to Mark yet :)

in win32apimodule.cpp, add (beware of wrapped lines)

// @pymethod object|win32api|SetFileTime|Set the files create, last access and
last write times
static PyObject *PySetFileTime(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  char *fileName;
  PyObject *pycreateTime, *pyaccessTime, *pywriteTime;
  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "sOOO:SetFileTime", 
                        &fileName, 
                        // @pyparm string|fileName||File to set times of
                        &pycreateTime, 
                        // @pyparm long|createTime||File Create time
                        &pyaccessTime, 
                        // @pyparm long|accessTime||File Access time
                        &pywriteTime
                        // @pyparm long|writeTime||File Write time
                        )) {
    
    return NULL;
  }
  if (!PyLong_Check(pycreateTime)) {
    return NULL;
  }
  if (!PyLong_Check(pyaccessTime)) {
    return NULL;
  }
  if (!PyLong_Check(pywriteTime)) {
    return NULL;
  }
  ULARGE_INTEGER create, access, write;
  if (!PyWinObject_AsULARGE_INTEGER(pycreateTime, &create)) {
    return NULL;
  }
  if (!PyWinObject_AsULARGE_INTEGER(pyaccessTime, &access)) {
    return NULL;
  }
  if (!PyWinObject_AsULARGE_INTEGER(pywriteTime, &write)) {
    return NULL;
  }
  FILETIME createTime, accessTime, writeTime;
  createTime.dwLowDateTime =  create.LowPart;
  createTime.dwHighDateTime = create.HighPart;
  accessTime.dwLowDateTime = access.LowPart;
  accessTime.dwHighDateTime = access.HighPart;
  writeTime.dwLowDateTime = write.LowPart;
  writeTime.dwHighDateTime = write.HighPart;
  HANDLE fileHandle = CreateFile(fileName, GENERIC_WRITE, NULL, NULL,
                                 OPEN_EXISTING, FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL,
                                 NULL);
  if (!fileHandle || fileHandle == INVALID_HANDLE_VALUE) {
    return ReturnAPIError("CreateFile");		
  }
  BOOL ok = SetFileTime(fileHandle, &createTime, &accessTime, &writeTime);
  if (!ok) {
    return ReturnAPIError("SetFileTime");		
  }
  ok = CloseHandle(fileHandle);
  if (!ok) {
    return ReturnAPIError("CloseHandle");		
  }
  Py_INCREF(Py_None);
  return Py_None;
}

and to 

static struct PyMethodDef win32api_functions[] = {

add

{"SetFileTime",         PySetFileTime,  	1}, // @pymeth SetFileTime|Set
the files create , last access and last write times



Cheers,

Roger Burnham
rburnham at cri-inc.com


From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sun Aug  5 07:52:00 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 04:52:00 -0700
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051130350.764-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <013901c11da5$09c688e0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

From: "Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru>
>
> Hello!
>
> The following code is from CGI script and provides way to have
> nice calendar:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> from __future__ import generators
> import calendar, string
> def calt(year, month):
>     month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
>     yield """<B>%s.%s</B>""" % (month, year)
>     yield """<TABLE BORDER=1>"""
>     for week in month_cal:
>       yield """\n<TR>"""
>       for day in week:
>         yield """<TD>%s</TD>""" % (day or "&nbsp;")
>       yield """</TR>"""
>     yield """</TABLE>"""
>
> print string.join(calt(2001, 8), "")
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> I like generators :-)
> (Probably Python should use "black bullet" or "*" instead of "yield":
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> from __future__ import generators
> import calendar, string
> def calt(year, month):
>     month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
>     * """<B>%s.%s</B>""" % (month, year)
>     * """<TABLE BORDER=1>"""
>     for week in month_cal:
>       * """\n<TR>"""
>       for day in week:
>         * """<TD>%s</TD>""" % (day or "&nbsp;")
>       * """</TR>"""
>     * """</TABLE>"""
>
> print string.join(calt(2001, 8), "")
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What do you think?
>
> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

This is python, not perl.  Readability therefore has priority over terse
obfuscation.  I definitely prefer 'yield' over '*'.

The only argument I can think of in favor of '*' is that it avoids
introducing
a keyword, and therefore is more backward compatible.  Since I don't
think I have any legacy code with 'yield' in it (knocking on wood), I will
gladly accept a new keyword to avoid perlization of the python language.

While your use of generators is clever, I'm not sure what, if anything
generators are actually buying you here.

What's wrong with:

import calendar, string
def calt(year, month):
    month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
    scal = ''
    scal += "<B>%s.%s</B>" % (month, year)
    scal += "<TABLE BORDER=1>"
    for week in month_cal:
      scal += "\n<TR>"
      for day in week:
        scal += "<TD>%s</TD>" % (day or "&nbsp;")
      scal += "</TR>"
    scal += "</TABLE>"
    return scal

Unless, of course you are trying to sell python to a sceptical client
who, you happen to know, loves generators. :-)

BTW, nice calendar format.

- Ken Seehof
kseehof at neuralintegrator.com
www.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof






From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 12:13:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:13:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: encoding
In-Reply-To: <15846473395.20010827230414@mail.biysk.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271212520.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Sergei N. Maslennikov wrote:

> Dear python-list,
>
> How to convert a string from any national encoding to another? For
> example from cp866 to cp1251.

Use iconv. Here's a link to a Python wrapper I just found:

  http://www.mx1.ru/iconv/

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 18:11:56 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:11:56 GMT
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
References: <mailman.999120826.4267.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9oqq6k.ip.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:32:54 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> In article <mailman.999108615.24410.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>> > Mmm, no. You see, what if you have values like (5+1j) and (2+58j)? are you
>> > sure you want to believe that (5+1j) is larger?
>>
>> That's the requirement he specified.  I was fixing the code to
>> meet the requirement.  [It turns out the actual problem was the
>> method name, right?]
>
>Surprisingly enough, he didn't mention any requirements whatsoever.

You're correct -- my mistake.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  HELLO KITTY gang
                                  at               terrorizes town, family
                               visi.com            STICKERED to death!


From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 19:54:22 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:54:22 -0400
Subject: 2.2: __call__ method via __getattr__ not working 
Message-ID: <20010814195422.S27040@starmedia.net>

I don't know if this is a known bug in the current CVS version of 2.2
but the following code breaks.

class bar(object):
    def __call__(self, args):
        print args

b = bar()
b(1) #works ok here

class foo(object):
    def _call_(self, args):
        print args
    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        if attr == '__call__':
            return self._call_
        raise AttributeError, attr

f = foo()
f(1) #dies here

It gives the following traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tt.py", line 17, in ?
    f(1)
TypeError: object is not callable: <foo object at 0x8148208>


Thanks, 
Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From brueckd at tbye.com  Thu Aug  2 12:18:22 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:18:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <996731475.630148@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108020823390.27405-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Donn Cave wrote:

> | [ snipped 10 lines of Python ]
> | [ snipped 30 - 40 lines of type-checking OCaml ]
> |
> | c.l.ocaml?). A veteren Pythonista won't have too many chances for causing
> | that bug because the Python version will be so short and simple.
>
> A Perl version could be shorter yet, maybe half the lines.  So even
> fewer bugs?

Two points: (1) yes, in general there is a correlation between lines of
code and number of bugs. (Don't bother posting a complex one-liner as
counter-evidence - this is a general and not an all-encompassing rule).
(2) I said short *and* simple.

Your strict type-checking snipped of code was the perfect example of this
- there were a ton of places where I, the developer, could have screwed up
in writing that mess. The complexity of the Python one was so much lower
there's just not as much that I could do wrong. Yes, that type checking
probably did prevent those type-related bugs, but the added complexity
opens the door for a slew of different bugs.

> | - If the function later needs to be modified to be more flexible with
> | different types or even just a little extra functionality, the Python one
> | is gonna be a breeze. I'd feel confident about a quick change followed by
> | some quick testing. I'd feel much more nervous about modifying the other
> | one.
>
> Fine!  You'll overcome your nervousness, sit down and start coding
> in those new types or whatever.  Maybe later, you'd do it with more
> confidence.  But confident or not, OCaml won't let you go until you
> have accounted for those new types, wherever necessary in the program.
> OCaml doesn't let your confidence become a liability.

?? The point is that, not only is the initial cost of writing the
type-checking one dramatically higher, maintenance on the code is also
much, much higher. When you come back to the function after not looking at
it for a few months, that's a lot of code to make sense of. Fiddling with
it has a high risk of introducing new bugs (not necessarily type-related
bugs) because of the much higher complexity.

This shouldn't strike you as odd. If you have an assembly function and a C
function that do the same thing and you need to change them, which one
will you most likely break? If you have a complex implementation of a
function and a simple, straightforward one, and you change them both,
which one will most likely break? 99 times out of 100 (or more), the short
and simple functions are harder to break. It's just a fact of life that
the more balls you have to keep in the air at one time, the more likely
you are to drop one.

> | - After a little experience using Python, the cost of finding that bug
> | will drop dramatically (how long would it take you, Donn, to figure it
> | out? 30 seconds maybe?) as will the likelihood of that bug occurring, but
> | the cost of creating the OCaml type-checking version will remain more or
> | less constant - you'll always have to write about that much code. So
> | you'll fight your way through the learning curve only to find that by
> | doing so what you learned just went down in value. ;-)
>
> Perversely missing the point.  For sure, once the bug came to my
> attention, it took much less than 30 seconds to find it.  But should
> we count the time it took my client to get me a traceback?

This is a bit of an exaggeration, but I'll play along. First of all, look
at this specific bug. How in the world did you manage to ship that? Did
you test at all? This wasn't exactly hard to reproduce or find. Now look
at it in the general sense. Yes, you should count the time it took your
client to give you traceback, install a solution, etc, but it should count
for each and every bug, not just this one. I can guarantee one of two
things (and maybe both): either the complex type-checking one has more
bugs in it due to the added complexity OR it took so long to write it
correctly that before you were a third of the way done your evil twin
underbid you, delivered a working Python version, fixed that one bug,
delivered a new version with better features, delivered another version to
suit the changing needs of the business, delivered another version with
new features, and got showered with money.

I mean, just *look* at that strict type-checking version of code. Wow! All
that complexity for such a simple piece of functionality. What in the
world would it look like if you needed to do something complex? I mean,
yes, you may have solved those darn type-related bugs, but how many more
bugs did you introduce in the process?

> it the solution took getting to the client, properly installed?
> If I spent extra hours wrestling with a few lines of code, and the
> reward is a modest improvement in reliability, it might well be worth
> it even if I don't do space shuttle gigs.

Yes, it might be, and you do have to judge for yourself. In general,
though, wrestling with code is a Bad Thing, especially if something so
simple is causing the wrestle. Your code may end up reliable in the
type-checking sense but be less reliable overall, sort of a
complexity-induced flakiness.

> me.  Or I could test the bejeezus out of it, which would surely take
> much longer,

Thorough testing should happen on both versions, and the type-safe version
would definitely take a lot longer to test thoroughly. Every time I look
at it I just go, "wow."

> and the magic inputs to get to that bug might or might
> not come up.

Huh? There's nothing magic about thorough testing.

> But your criticisms seem a little misguided.  If your point is
> that Python is good for quick hacks, and OCaml isn't, fine.  I'll
> buy that.  But what about type checking and serious programming?

What in the world? Sorry if that's what you thought I was saying, because
that's not it at all. I _am_ saying that, because more complexity and more
lines of code tend to mean more bugs, the type-safe version nearly ruins
my chances of success in a reasonable time frame.

> I guess you don't want any more examples of problems type checking
> could solve?

Why would that be the case? Because the examples so far have reinforced
the notion that today's type-checking systems can fix those problems but
only at a tremendous cost (increased development time/effort, increased
testing time, increased maintenance time)?




From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug  7 11:16:24 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:16:24 GMT
Subject: scope question
References: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <cDTb7.79022$EP6.19140597@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

> count = 0
> def function():
>    print count
> function()
>#works fine, however, if I type this:
>
> count = 0
> def function():
>    count += 1
>    print count
> function()
>
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'count' referenced before
assignment

1. Read the manual on variables in function bodies.
2. Binding name anywhere in function body makes it local unlesss you
declare it global:
   global count

Terry J. Reedy





From killingjoke at mail.com  Thu Aug  9 05:32:48 2001
From: killingjoke at mail.com (frank booth)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:32:48 +0800
Subject: Sockets question
Message-ID: <20010809093249.12620.qmail@mail.com>

Howdy.

I'm sending something through a TCP socket, then closing it, then my python script exits.

For some reason, from time to time (and not on all machines) the remote end doesn't always get the data.

I thought close() is supposed to terminate the connection gracefully so it should be OK, but its not.

Maybe when the script exits the connection dies at once? Is there a simple solution that will not involve waiting? (its used in a high-load system so I should free the socket and leave the process as quickly as possible. It is also impossible to change the remote program).

Thanks,
Frank
-- 

_______________________________________________
FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com 
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 

Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free! 
http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143 




From fdrake at acm.org  Fri Aug  3 22:03:38 2001
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Fri,  3 Aug 2001 22:03:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20010804020338.338B82879B@cj42289-a.reston1.va.home.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

A variety of updates, including the first installment for the distutils
API docs (in "Distributing Python Modules"), and some contributed
material on embedding Python (in "Extending and Embedding the Python
Interpreter").

There were many other small improvements and bug fixes.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 18:51:40 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
In-Reply-To: <Jmei7.507296$lq1.100514897@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261846500.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:

> Ignacio
> I am quite confused by the implementation of complex numbers:
> 1.  Try
> >>>  r = 4
> >>> r.imag
> Error:  int object has no attrib imag
> >>> r.real
> error:  int object has no attrib real
>
> But every real/int number is a complex number with a 0 imaginary part (r =
> 4+0j)

In math, yes. But not in Python. In Python there are four independent types of
numbers: integer, long, double, and complex. If you want r to be considered a
complex number then you'd have to write either 'r=4+0j' or 'r=complex(4,0)'.

> 2.  Also,
> >>> x = 4 + 7j
> >>> x.imag = 6
> error:  object has a read-only attrib
> >>> x.real = 7
> same error of read-olny attrib
>
> why?

Because. I could look into the source (or point you to the source), but the
answer would still simply be "Because".

> 3.  Finally,
> >>> t.imag = 6
> error:  name 't' is not defined    (you expect this to set t=6j without
> further ado)
> >>> t.real = 7
> error: name 't' is not defined    (you expect this to set t=7 automatically)
> Is not this lame :O
> In this case, one expects:
> >>> t.imag = 7
> >>> t
> 7j
> >>> t.real = 6
> >>> t
> 6+7j

See the two answers above and put them together ;)

> Maan

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 22 22:24:34 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 19:24:34 -0700
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998526813.12118.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xlmkbfr8d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> writes:
> I believe another major reason is that adding "real" GC would cause problems
> for C extensions. All Python's cycle collector does is break the links
> forming the cycle - the reference counting semantics then handle the rest.

Actually, conventional GC is simpler for C extensions since the C
extensions for the most part don't have to think about the GC.
In the current situation we see a lot of reference counting bugs
in C extensions.

> Java has a "real" GC - and this often leads to problems - in particular,
> programs being relatively fast until a memory threshold is reached - and
> then the GC starts kicking in and things really start slowing down in a
> non-deterministic way. 

That's all a matter of how the GC is implemented.  There are certainly
realtime GC algorithms that have been used in some Lisp and Java systems.

> In tests people have done by replacing Python's reference counting by
> Boehm's collector (reported to this newsgroup) there have been marked speed
> advantages to reference counting in most cases. This is empirical evidence
> that reference counting works well *for Python* in most cases.

I guess that might be the case, at least with the current body of
Python programs.  I'm thinking of Python's implementation in terms of
whether it's suitable for large, long-running programs, and it's
not clear whether anyone really writes those in Python.

The combination of RC and GC (or cycle breaking) that's been described
here sounds like a pretty good approach.  It wasn't described in the
Python docs that I read, which described a pure RC system, but that's
ok :).


From just at letterror.com  Fri Aug 10 05:29:03 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:29:03 +0200
Subject: [Package] FontTools: a font manipulation library
Message-ID: <20010810112905-r01010700-8b0dfba3-0910-010c@10.0.0.21>

My FontTools project has moved to SourceForge:

   http://fonttools.sourceforge.net/

Blurb:

   FontTools is an open source library for manipulating fonts,
   written in Python. It supports reading and writing of
   TrueType fonts, PostScript Type 1 fonts as well as AFM
   files and some MacOS-specific formats. Goals: quality,
   completeness, flexibility.

Killer app:

   The package contains command line tools to convert TrueType
   fonts to an XML-based format, and back. These tools are also
   known as TTX.

This is really a pre-announcement: the project hasn't yet released
any files, so for now you're stuck with CVS or the "nightly tarball".

FontTools has been in development for about two years, and parts of
it (most notably the ttLib subpackage) are quite stable.

I need help in the following area: installation on Windows. I would
love to offer an easy to install for TTX, ready for *end users*.
Yet I know virtually nothing about Windows and I don't even have
access to a Windows box. I wouldn't know whether py2exe or the
McMillan Installer would be more suited to this particular project.

I've created two mailing lists, one for general discussion and
development:

   fonttools-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net

And one for CVS checkin messages, powered by syncmail, of
python-checkins fame (Hi Barry!):

   fonttools-checkins at lists.sourceforge.net

For subscription info please follow the "Mailing Lists" link
at http://sourceforge.net/projects/fonttools/.

Just



From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  9 17:34:49 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:34:49 +0200
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1827265.sRUnXabflU@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> schrub:

> More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> blanks in ( ).
> [...]
> Any ideas?

I usually use (a, b, c) - means spaces only after the commas.

In C / Java, I use spaces after if (), while () etc., but don't put one 
after a function().

Inside the parenthesis, I sometimes add some spaces when there are 
multiple levels of ()s:

if ( (a>b) && (b>c) )
if (( (a>b) && (b>c) ) || (something != else))

I don't use any rules for this - I just try to keep it readable in my 
own eyes :-)

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From Tom_Good1 at excite.com  Wed Aug  1 14:50:58 2001
From: Tom_Good1 at excite.com (Tom Good)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 11:50:58 -0700
Subject: Control of flow
References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311355450.2321-100000@cb921.local>
Message-ID: <ac677656.0108011050.6b1e8e3@posting.google.com>

Campbell <cb921 at voice.co.za> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311355450.2321-100000 at cb921.local>...
> Hi,
> 
> I use python to write telephony apps, and I find that a 'goto' is often
> a nice tool (stop going 'aargh', its properly "useful" sometimes =).
> 
> Here is a little snippet that gets a month/day from a caller.  If the
> day entered is not in the range of days valid for the month entered, we
> repeat from the top.  Does anyone have a few minutes to waste helping
> me??  How better can I code things that look like this:
> 
> >>> snip <<<
> while 1:
>     cont = 1         ## ugh!
>     month = getdtmf("enter2digs.vox", 2)
>     if month < 1 or month > 12:
>         play("invalidmonth.vox")
>         continue
>     while 1:
>         day = getdtmf("enterday", 2)
>         if day < 1 or day > Month[month]:
>             play("invalidday.vox")
>             cont = 1
>         cont = 0
>     if cont == 1:
>         continue
>     break
> >>> snip <<<

Here's a quick example of the kind of thing you might do instead.  I
have NOT tested this code -- when I write pseudocode, I write it in
Python ;-)

This shows an approach using functions and exceptions instead of loop
control variables.


class startOverException(Exception):
      pass

def someMainFunction():
    # . . .
    month, day = getMonthAndDay()
    # . . .
 
def getMonthAndDay():
    while 1:
        try: 
            month = getmonth()
            day = getday(month)
            return (month, day)
        except startOverException:
            pass # try again from the top

def getmonth():
    while 1:
        month = getdtmf("enter2digs.vox")
        if month < 1 or month >12:
           play("invalidmonth.vox")
        else:
           return month

def getday(month):
    while 1:
        day = getdtmf("enterday", 2)
        if day < 1:
            play("invalidday.vox") # re-enter day
        elif day > Month[month]:
            play("invalidday.vox")
            raise startOverException  # start over, re-enter month
        else:
            return day   # day was OK


From david at boddie.net  Tue Aug 21 13:08:50 2001
From: david at boddie.net (David Boddie)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:08:50 -0700
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <23891c90.0108210156.45aeb35b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <18289ee4.0108210908.62116095@posting.google.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:<23891c90.0108210156.45aeb35b at posting.google.com>...
> Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan) wrote in message news:<slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan at g.local>...
> > 
> > By the way, I have a hazy recollection that someone *did* port
> > some, at least, of Tk to RISC OS. I don't know how easy it would
> > be to make the Python port work nicely with it, and I don't
> > now remember how complete the port was or who did it or anything
> > useful like that.
> 
> I believe that Chris Stretch, in the earlier port of Python for RISC
> OS, decided that Tk was too difficult to port, given certain
> limitations of the RISC OS Desktop environment (no nested windows at
> that time), so he invented a new toolkit (whose name eludes me, but it
> started with T, I think) which was incompatible with Tk.

Do you mean Shade? ;-)

> It might be interesting to review the Mac OS port of Tk to see whether
> a RISC OS port is viable, given that Mac OS is possibly the closest
> platform to RISC OS architecturally that Tk has been ported to. An
> alternative solution would be to follow the anygui project
> (http://anygui.sourceforge.net) and implement the proposed API using
> calls to the underlying Desktop API.

This is an interesting project. Looking at the API which inspired
their's reminds me of the system I wanted to implement, namely that of
documents with multiple views:

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/

It will be quite challenging to bring across some of the ideas to RISC
OS, since the way some mechanisms are implemented on RISC OS, such as
menu selection, require information to be stored globally (within a
GUI module anyway).

David


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 22:05:45 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 19:05:45 -0700
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com> <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <7xsnedlz0m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) writes:
> Sigh.  I have this problem with my ISP, and affecting only mailman.
> Mailman now depends on 2.x Python and since the ISP won't upgrade
> Python they can't upgrade Mailman.  We're sinking into a hole here...

Unless the dependency is really deep, Mailman should be fixed to
work with Python 1.5.2.  Lots of people are still using 1.5.2.


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Wed Aug  1 02:20:05 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:20:05 -0600
Subject: Python 2.1.1 and 2.2a1 SRPMs
Message-ID: <20010801002005.C15852@tummy.com>

Since python.org is deeply unhappy, I'll announce the SRPMs on the
tummy.com site so that folks who want it now can get access to it, until
python.org can get a new hard drive.  Once that happens, these should move
over there.

The SRPMs are available at under ftp.tummy.com:/pub/tummy/RPMS/SRPMS with
the following file-names:

   python2-2.1.1-1.src.rpm
   python2.2-2.2a1-1.src.rpm

Note that 2.2 is the package "python2.2", which will install along-side
Python 2.1 and 1.5 RPMs.  I plan that once Python 2.2 becomes stable, this
will be changed so that Python 2.2 replaces 2.1 as "python2".  If you have
any comments about this, please let me know.

You can build binary RPMs from the above SRPMs using the command
"rpm --rebuild <srpm file name>".  Towards the end of the build it will say
"Wrote: [...]" and tell you where it's writing the binary RPMs.

Also, if you run into the 'libcrypt.so' and 'libssl.so' dependencies as has
been discussed here before, make sure you have both the "openssl095" and
"openssl" packages installed -- this seems to be an isue with RedHat
bumping the major library revision with openssl-0.9.6 to "1" from "0" that
0.9.5 and earlier had...

Enjoy,
Sean
-- 
 The Law of Software Development and Envelopment at MIT: Every program
 in development at MIT expands until it can read mail.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From bawolk at ucdavis.edu  Thu Aug  9 00:02:53 2001
From: bawolk at ucdavis.edu (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:02:53 -0700
Subject: PyQt install problem
References: <3B70BAB7.A9C3061C@ucdavis.edu> <9kqm4t$6q9$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <3B716A1F.6DA99D39@ucdavis.edu> <9ksbfv$sl8$2@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3B720B6D.28E85E05@ucdavis.edu>

Excellent advice.  I changed the QTDIR environment variable to point to
/usr/lib/qt-2.3.0 and now I have a working version of PyQt.  I still get the
warning

    Xlib:  extension "RENDER" missing on display ":0.0".

but the examples seem to run.  I can live with that.  Thanks so much for your
help.  By the way, I am really looking forward to your book.  Python and Qt make a
phenomenal combination and hopefully your book will help spread the word.

Cheers, Bruce

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> Bruce Wolk <bawolk at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> > Good suggestion.  When I run ldd on libqtcmodule.so as root and as user I get
> > different results for libqt.so.2:
>
> > root
> >     libqt.so.2 => /usr/lib/qt-2.3.0/lib/libqt.so.2 (0x40505000)
> > user
> >     libqt.so.2 => /usr/local/qt/lib/libqt.so.2 (0x404f6000)
>
> > I don't understand why this is so.  It seems that the qt libraries are in
> > fact in both locations--both version 2.3.  I am not sure how that happened.
> > So what should I do now?
>
> > I also get many additional libraries as root that I don't get as user:
>
> >  libXft.so.1 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 (0x40ec9000)
> >  libpng.so.2 => /usr/lib/libpng.so.2 (0x40eee000)
> >  libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x40f0f000)
> >  libjpeg.so.62 => /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62 (0x40f1e000)
> >  libmng.so.1 => /usr/lib/libmng.so.1 (0x40f3d000)
> >  libXrender.so.1 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXrender.so.1 (0x41018000)
> >  libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0x4101e000)
>
> This is logical and consistent with your earlier report. The Qt root
> uses (which is presumably part of your OS installation) is compiled to
> support Xft - the new, anti-aliased font protocol for X. Your X doesn't
> support that (or it does, but your graphics card doesn't), and that
> causes the error message you get when you run PyQt apps as root.
>
> However, I'd search your user account configuration (particularly
> .bashrc) for references to /usr/local/qt... - I think you might have
> compiled and installed a qt as a user, and set the qt directory to that
> place.
>
> It might be best to just remove the qt in /usr/local and let everything
> point to the one in /usr.
> --
>
> Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org



From ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com  Tue Aug  7 14:34:07 2001
From: ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com (Phil Tomson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:34:07 GMT
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>

In article <9ko78h015vj at enews1.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Phil Tomson" <ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message
>news:X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673 at e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
>    ...
>> Questions for the Ruby community to ponder: What sorts of features do we
>> need that might be unique to Ruby?  [One that comes to mind: the ability
>> to extend an existing class.]  For the
>
>In what sense is this "unique to Ruby"?  The following works in Python:

Sorry, I don't know Python that well.  But I was also referring to the 
ability to change built-in classes like Array or Hash for example, I can 
add a rotate method to the built-in Array class and everytime I 
instantiate an array after that I can call the rotate method on the 
instance.

>
>It seems to me this similarity fully extends to the issue you've
>mentioned.  I don't know enough Ruby to know if it's quite as
>dynamic as Python (in Python I can, on the fly, change the class
>to which a given instance belongs to, 

I think Ruby can do this.

>add and delete methods

You can do this in Ruby.

>from an existing class, add or override a method as defined by
>a class in a specific instnace only, 

You can do this in Ruby.

>change a class's bases...) --

Not sure about this one - do you mean that you can change the class's base 
class?

Phil



From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 17:00:34 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:00:34 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mu445.62q.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <9kp3hs026g6@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <1028525.ia2DhmKxfE@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> schrub:

>> Eiffel goes even further with this, for example:
>>
>> fp.read_line
>> s := fp.last_string
>>
>> I haven't decided yet if this consistency is of the hobgoblin variety
>> or not.
> 
> To me, it seems cleverly designed to maximize threading
> problems/race-conditions/horrid-bugs.

Only when you consider that in a Python/C/Java-like 
  s = fp.read_line()
the internal implementation of fp.read_line() is guaranteed to be 
atomary in execution.

This may be the case in stackles pyhton green threads, and in java 
using synchronized, but is not the general case.

The most often solution is that read_line() internally does some 
locking, or specifies in the documentation that only one thread at a 
time uses it.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Fri Aug 10 20:31:17 2001
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 00:31:17 GMT
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> <9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> <mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org> <3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org> <9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> <9kuic9$515$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> <cpvgjw91pa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l1ucl$f04$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman) writes:

[...]

> Exactly.

> Thanks for an excellent explanation of the difference between tuples
> and lists!

No problem.  If you or anyone want to use it in any documentation
or otherwise, please feel free to do so.

-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"God is real, but Jesus is an integer."      !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
                                             !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Aug 20 00:46:22 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:46:22 -0400
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python Path Blues)
In-Reply-To: <iM_f7.478065$lq1.92088192@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOENELGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Maan Hamze]
> The doc for DCOracle2 instructs the user to use PYTHONPATH.

I assume that worked, so no problem there.

> The doc for mxODBC does not, but instructs the user to use sys.path
> I used the sys.path for mxODBC and it did not work.  So I added it to
> PYTHONPATH envar and it worked.
> So of course I am confused :)

It could be that you're not confused enough yet <0.9 wink>.  The only effect
PYTHONPATH has on sys.path is to add its directories near the start of
sys.path, so you *should be* able to get exactly the same effect by losing
PYTHONPATH and fiddling sys.path yourself.  You should contact Marc-Andre
Lemburg and sort out why following his mxODBC instructions didn't work for
you.

Perhaps better, beginning with 2.2a2, the PythonLabs Windows installer
creates a Lib\site-packages directory, and site.py adds that to sys.path.
This is, much as on Unix too, intended to be "the normal" place for
extensions to install themselves (and then they'll be on sys.path without
further fiddling).

>>> 1.  Upon installing Python (PythonWin or the regular Python
>>> distribution for Windows), the registry itself is updated with the
>>> lib path,

>> It is, but please note that Python never *looks* at this
>> setting in normal operation.

> Ok!  what setting does it look at then when one adds some library into
> its own subdirectory and when one uses the import lib command to use
> something from that lib?

Sorry, I tried several times but couldn't parse that question.

> sys.path?  is it the sure way?

sys.path is the only thing ever looked at after Python initializes itself.
The only effect PYTHONPATH (or even the registry under extreme cases) has is
to add directories to sys.path at Python initialization time.  Something is
found if and only if it's present on sys.path.  But this is in the absence
of import hooks, the "clever" use of which can make things arbitrarily more
complicated than they're intended to be.

> Or is it to follow the instructions that comes with the package?

There's no limit to how perverse extension authors can get, so of course you
should follow their instructions.

> Maybe I ran into some bad luck then?

Don't know but suspect so.

> Since DCOracle2 and mxODBC did not behave as expected.

At the start of the msg I thought you said DBOracle2 said to use PYTHONPATH,
and implied that it worked.  Whatever, I don't care about sorting out what
you did and didn't intend to say or imply <wink>, so long as it's working
now.

> Well, they are working now, but it bothers me that I had to go into all
> this trouble to make them work :)

You shouldn't have to, of course.  When packages come with instructions that
don't work, the cure is to ask the package authors to fix their
instructions.  Note that there are a large number of import-related gimmicks
a package author *can* use, so it's not realistic to expect all package
authors to do things the same way.  In time, all packages will use
distutils, and you'll never have to think again <ahem>.




From jonathan at onegoodidea.com  Wed Aug  1 18:04:01 2001
From: jonathan at onegoodidea.com (Jonathan Hogg)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:04:01 +0100
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996592198.30711.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jonathan-FF4194.23040101082001@news.easynet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.996592198.30711.python-list at python.org>,
 tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer) wrote:

> Jonathan Hogg <jonathan at onegoodidea.com> wrote:
> 
> > I can though, think of plenty of places where strong static typing would 
> > defeat intentional exploitation of the dynamic typing. Maybe this is 
> > poor programming on my part, but I can't even think how one would type a 
> > function like say:
> > 
> >    def f(zs): return reduce( lambda x, y: x + y, zs )
> 
> Genericity (templates in C++) this is not a problem -- you get one
> instance of `f` for each type `zs` you happen to apply `f` to.
> 
> Disclaimer: C++ templates don't allow different return types for such
> functions, but that's a restriction of C++, not of genericity. IIRC,
> Ada generics can be generic in the return type, too.

Generics don't give meaningful types to functions. They simply delay the 
type-checking to the instantiator. Specialising a function each time it 
is used may be fine for native compilation, but not for type-checking or 
for Python VM compilation. I'd argue that even doing that, you couldn't 
come up with a workable type system for Python.

Exercise for the reader, think of types for the following:

   class BadBoy:
       def __radd__( self, other ):
           return "Oh yeah that's a %s!" % `other`

   pn = BadBoy()

   zs = [ 1.3, 0, 5, pn, " Hoo hah." ]

   heck = f(zs)  # using my previous f()

You can argue that this is a shitty piece of code (and I agree!), but it 
runs, and I don't want the compiler stopping me writing it.

The problem is that a dynamic language like Python creates types that 
are effectively as complex as the language itself. You end up concerning 
yourself so much with coming up with meaningful signatures, that you 
write the program in the type and have to execute it to see if it 
type-checks. That may be fine for proof systems like Alf, but not for 
Python.

As Michael Abbot observed:

> statically typed Python would need to be a 
> different language from standard Python

Now if you're just worried about speed and want to be give hints to the 
compiler so it can unbox types and optimise dispatch, then that's a 
whole different ball game. Do-able, but still tricky - as whenever it 
was unsure the unifier would have to insert box/unbox checks just in 
case and drop back to the standard dispatcher. You'd end up having to 
litter your code with type hints and assertions.

Someone argued that typing makes code more readable, I'd wager that if 
you took a standard Python program and annotated it to the level 
necessary to get sensible optimisation/checking out of it, a beginner 
would mistake it for perl ;)

Jonathan


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sun Aug 26 18:03:21 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:03:21 GMT
Subject: Python Packages for Complex Numbers and Matrix Math
References: <mailman.998851300.13860.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Jmei7.507296$lq1.100514897@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Ignacio
I am quite confused by the implementation of complex numbers:
1.  Try
>>>  r = 4
>>> r.imag
Error:  int object has no attrib imag
>>> r.real
error:  int object has no attrib real

But every real/int number is a complex number with a 0 imaginary part (r =
4+0j)

2.  Also,
>>> x = 4 + 7j
>>> x.imag = 6
error:  object has a read-only attrib
>>> x.real = 7
same error of read-olny attrib

why?

3.  Finally,
>>> t.imag = 6
error:  name 't' is not defined    (you expect this to set t=6j without
further ado)
>>> t.real = 7
error: name 't' is not defined    (you expect this to set t=7 automatically)
Is not this lame :O
In this case, one expects:
>>> t.imag = 7
>>> t
7j
>>> t.real = 6
>>> t
6+7j

Maan
"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998851300.13860.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:
>
> > if x is a complex number = a + bj
> > is there any built in finction that can return the real and imaginary
values
> > of x?
> > Something like:
> > r = real(x) = a and
> > s=img(x) = b
> > I can not find something like that.
> > Maan
>
> Try x.real and x.imag.
>
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>




From LArbilla at pav.com  Wed Aug  8 11:27:17 2001
From: LArbilla at pav.com (LArbilla at pav.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:27:17 -0500 
Subject: win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a pythom COM s
	erver - found it!
Message-ID: <24C5595F6FE1D211B5A700A0C9AB2EC1019F26A8@pav10exc.pav.com>

This problem has bugged me.  So, I went back and compared the changes
I made that made the whole thing work.  The culprits were:

a) _reg_class_spec is obsolete
			_reg_class_spec_ = "raecom.Rae"
b) __init__ must NOT have a return statement
				return 1

The use of "str" to convert from Unicode to Python was also an error, but
had nothing to do with the initialization of the server, just an error in
calling
that method.

FYI,
Laura.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Laura Arbilla 
> Sent:	Monday, August 06, 2001 2:55 PM
> To:	Laura Arbilla; 'python-list at python.org'
> Subject:	RE: win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a pythom
> COM server - found it!
> 
> I found the problems:
> 1) I had a field, _pid, in class RAE, which I meant as private.  However
> it needed to be declared
> in _public_attrs_.  Is there a _private_attrs_ declaration ?
> 2) Also, the line:
> 			self._pid = raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(fileName)
> needed to be changed to
> 			self._pid =
> raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(str(fileName))
> to avoid an error converting between Unicode and Python strings.
> 
> FYI,
> Laura.
> 
> 
> 	-----Original Message-----
> 	From:	Laura Arbilla 
> 	Sent:	Monday, August 06, 2001 12:15 PM
> 	To:	'python-list at python.org'
> 	Subject:	win32com: get error 80004005 in attempt to use a
> pythom COM server
> 
> 	I'm seriously stuck (2 days now) at my first attempt to use win32com
> to write a com server in python.
> 	I've search and read all I could find and I still don't see how to
> solve the problem:
> 	  
> 	1) I wrote a simple COM server in python, it registers and I can see
> it in PythonWin's COM Browser:
> 	2) I tried to use it from VB:
> 		Dim theServer As Object
> 		Set theServer = CreateObject("Python.Rae")
> 	   and got error -2147467259 (80004005) "Unexpected Python Error:
> exceptions.ImportError: No module named raecom"
> 	3) So, I decided to first test it from Python.
> 	   The client calls the server's  __init__ (from
> win32com.client.Dispatch), 
> 	   but the call fails with the same error (in python, it only shows
> -2147467259)
> 	3) I tried:
> 		- putting all of the code in c:\program files\python  (where
> python and win32com are installed)
> 			and it didn't make a difference
> 		- I also tried commenting out the line "_reg_class_spec",
> which has the only reference to "raecom"
> 			and it didn't make a difference
> 
> 	I would appreciate any tips. I'm sure it is something simple.
> 	Below is the code for the server, the client and the "trace".
> 	Thanks a bunch!!
> 	Laura.
> 	larbilla at pav.com
> 
> 	SERVER CODE:
> 	import win32com.server
> 	import raeapimodule
> 	import win32traceutil
> 
> 	class Rae:
> 		_public_methods_ = ['ConfigFromFile', 'Init']
> 		_public_attrs_ = ['projectName']
> 		_readonly_attrs_ = ['projectName']
> 		_reg_clsid_ = "{8680B790-875A-11d5-9A59-005004630197}"
> 		_reg_progid_ = "Python.Rae"
> 		_reg_desc_ = "Python COM RAE Wrapper"
> 		_reg_class_spec_ = "raecom.Rae"
> 	#only for dual interfaces
> 	#	_com_interfaces_ = ['IRae']
> 		def __init__(self):
> 			print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ being called"
> 			self._pid = -1
> 			print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ uno"
> 			self.projectName = ""
> 			print "raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ dos"
> 			return 1
> 		def ConfigFromFile(self, fileName):
> 			print "raecom.py.class Rae.ConfigFromFile being
> called"
> 			self._pid = raeapimodule.ConfigFromFile(fileName)
> 			if (self._pid > 0):
> 				self.projectName = fileName
> 			return self._pid
> 		def Init(self):
> 			print "raecom.py.class Rae.Init being called"
> 			status = raeapimodule.Init(self._pid)
> 			return status
> 
> 	if __name__ == '__main__':
> 		import win32com.server.register
> 		win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(Rae)
> 
> 	CLIENT CODE:
> 
> 	import win32com.client
> 	print "start"
> 	o = win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.Rae")
> 	print "called dispatch"
> 	
> o.ConfigFromFile("c:\\larbilla\\test\\raetest\\pull_multimap_4.pi_ot_confi
> g")
> 	print "called configfromfile"
> 	print o.projectName
> 
> 	TRACEUTIL:
> 
> 	Registered: Python.Rae 
> 	start  <--- this actually shows in the command line
> 	raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ being called
> 	raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ uno
> 	raecomp.py.class Rae.__init__ dos
> 	Traceback (innermost last):
> 	  File "raecomtest.py", line 4, in ?
> 	    o = win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.Rae")
> 	  File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\__init__.py", line
> 94, in Dispatch
> 	    dispatch, userName =
> dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
> 	  File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line
> 80, in _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
> 	    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
> 	  File "C:\Program Files\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line
> 71, in _GetGoodDispatch
> 	    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
> pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
> 	pywintypes.com_error: (-2147467259, 'Unspecified error', None, None)
> 
> 



From bokr at accessone.com  Thu Aug 23 14:13:32 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:13:32 GMT
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> <3b8438f6.196472081@wa.news.verio.net> <3B84B46D.9B6831EF@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <3b853b32.262580841@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:44:45 +0200, Dietmar Lang <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote:

>
>Hi!
>
>> One idea would be to write all the strings end to end into a file, and
>> store their start byte positions and lengths as tuple values for keys in a dictionary,
>> somethin like
>> [code snip]
>
>Hey, that sounds rather good to me. I'll think about the database, too.
>But somehow I like this 'homemade' approach a little better. ;-)
>
Your own idea of using constant-size string slots in a file would be the
fastest, since you wouldn't have to load a dictionary or list telling
where the strings are located (assuming you have sequential numeric keys).
You'd want to avoid having to read a large dictionary if your execution
context doesn't allow using it more than for one lookup. It's all is a matter
of balancing actual needs and constraints. 

Your layout also has the advantage that you could replace a particular
string with any changed string that would fit in the slot. In the
back-to-back format, space would be saved, but you would have to re-write
the whole thing, or append the change at the end and update the index,
to accomplish an edit.

If you find yourself writing your own hash of non-sequential keys to access
disk file slots etc., you probably ought to stop reinventing DB stuff, unless
you really enjoy it ;-) Note though that if someone else will inherit your code,
standard methods will make life easier for them. OTOH, small Python things
tend to be very understandable ;-)

Another consideration is to wrap up your Python for this lookup functionality
so that you could replace it with a C extension if necesssary/desirable.

Good luck.



From tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br  Mon Aug 13 14:53:44 2001
From: tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br (Tatiana Evers)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:53:44 -0300
Subject: Threads problem
Message-ID: <017a01c12429$470762d0$39a5100a@cg22898>

Hi

I am working with Python API/C.

I have a module in C that call a Glut function. Glut function call Glut
MainLoop and this block my interactive python program.

So, I though in create a new thread to solve this, but I didn't have sucess.
Any idea ?

Thanks ;o)

Tatiana
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tatiana Figueiredo Evers
Mestranda em Computa??o Aplicada
(Computa??o Gr?fica)
UNISINOS - S?o Leopoldo - RS
tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br
www.inf.unisinos.br/~tatiana




From nospam at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug 22 13:15:26 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:15:26 +0200
Subject: ATTN Belgarath (sorry)
References: <9m0ote$2m4j$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <9m0p10$2mfc$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Wrong NG, forget it!
I'm tired





From blong at fiction.net  Wed Aug 29 18:17:06 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:17:06 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010829151706.A27274@pulp>

On 08/29/01 Skip Montanaro uttered the following other thing:
> 
>     >> On the second request, the import of the site.py module fails (during
>     >> import __builtin__) with:
>     >> 'import site' failed; traceback:
>     >> Traceback (most recent call last):
>     >> File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/site.py", line 60, in ?    
>     >> import sys, os
>     >> File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 54, in ?
>     >> __all__.extend(_get_exports_list(posix))
>     >> File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 35, in _get_exports_list
>     >> return list(module.__all__)
>     >> AttributeError: 'posix' module has no attribute '__all__'
> 
> Sounds like something's fishy in your os module.  The current 2.1.1 code for
> _get_exports_list is
> 
>     def _get_exports_list(module):
>         try:
>             return list(module.__all__)
>         except AttributeError:
>             return [n for n in dir(module) if n[0] != '_']
> 
> so it should be catching the AttributeError (the posix module is not
> supposed to have an attribute named '__all__').  What does _get_exports_list
> look like?  Where are you picking up the os module?  Try:
> 
>     import imp
>     imp.find_module("os")

No, the module is unmodified and does contain the AttributeError
clause... but for some reason, it doesn't match the AttributeError
exception that is thrown.  If I replace it with just except: to catch
all exceptions, it passes until further down where something else in
os.py expects an exception.

Brandon
-- 
  "Mithras -- the Reason for the Season"
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From sa at bayt.net  Mon Aug  6 23:15:24 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 20:15:24 -0700
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com>

Failed Attempt at Building a python extension using free Microsoft.NET
SDK
(Python 2.1.1/win2k)

I'm a non-cs newbie whose first computer language is python... I'm
very happy with python, in fact I am not ashamed to say that I love
this language... But I'm also curious about other languages and now I
want to play around with some c extensions which I'd like to use in
python.
However, I'm totally frustrated by the experience of creating
extensions: nothing it seems is more unfriendly to newbies in the
python world (at least in my experience) than information on embedding
and extending python through c.

I've tried unsuccessfully in the past to compile python extensions
using cygwin, but failed for more than one reason or the other and
then just gave up. Recently I downloaded Microsoft's freely available
.NET SDK which contains the standard MS c/c++ compiler and libraries
and I thought this would be an opportunity to try the python extension
thing again.

(incidentally the SDK was downloaded from
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?url=/downloads/sample.asp?url=/msdn-files/027/000/976/msdncompositedoc.xml&frame=true
)

Again, my main source of confusion was due to the documentation with
its intermezzos, dearth of clear examples, and its essential
assumption that the reader is already a proficient c coder and not a
newbie (graduating to c extensions). It further assumes you are using
the gui of visual studio and not the compiler directly via command
line.

Here's a short log of my experiences with a few of the pages in the
latest development docs and subsequent attempts to get it to work:

(Please note that my knowledge of handling the compilation of c code
is limited to tiny 'hello-world'-like programs.)

Problematic documentation:
--------------------------

Python Documentation: Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter
    
4.1 A Cookbook Approach
    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/ext/win-cookbook.html
        
Is a highly confusing page for following reasons:
        
1. pyconfig.h is NOT included in PC dir of python 2.1.1 src
distribution in fact a file called config.h is included which is
exactly similar to the file that is already included in the include
directory of the win32 installer version (phew!!)
        
2. One is asked to "create a Setup file for your extension module"
except that the page referred to
[http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/ext/building-on-unix.html#building-on-unix]is
actually for building extensions on UNIX. (now I'm totally confused)
        
3. The advice to "get David Ascher's compile.py script from
http://starship.python.net/crew/da/compile" is not useful because
David Ascher's pages are currently down.
        
4. Now one is supposed to open the DSW in visual c++ (alas I only have
the command line tools)... This becomes one of the those few moments
in the python world where a UI example triumphs over the command line
example to the point of displacing the latter (until later, that is)
        
            I think it is time to ABORT this effort!!! 
    
One more go there seems to be another page in the documentation and it
feels warmer.... DLLs have something to do with windows don't they?
    
4.3 Using DLLs in Practice 
    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/ext/win-dlls.html
        
- this actually has a command line example (great!!!) now to test....
 cl.exe is the standard windows c/c++ compiler use /LD for building
.DLLS
 add "F:\python21\include" to the INCLUDE environment variable
                
I'm going to use example.c from the src distribution 
(path: Python-2.1.1\PC\example_nt\example.c)

Problematic Compilation:
------------------------

########################################################################
ATTEMPT #1
########################################################################

D:\>cl /LD example.c F:\python21\libs\python21.lib

Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Standard Compiler Version 13.00.9254 for
80x86
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 1984-2001. All rights reserved.

example.c
f:\Python21\include\config.h(290) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open
include file:
 'basetsd.h': No such file or directory

D:\>
########################################################################
Action: deleted offending 'basetsd.h' from config.h
Microsoft probably didn't include it in this version of their SDK
########################################################################

########################################################################
ATTEMPT #2
########################################################################

D:\>cl /LD example.c F:\python21\libs\python21.lib

Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Standard Compiler Version 13.00.9254 for
80x86
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 1984-2001. All rights reserved.

example.c
f:\Python21\include\config.h(290) : warning C4142: benign redefinition
of type
c:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio.NET\Vc7\include\stdarg.h(52)
: warning
C4142: benign redefinition of type
Microsoft (R) Incremental Linker Version 7.00.9254
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

/out:example.dll
/dll
/implib:example.lib
example.obj
F:\python21\libs\python21.lib

########################################################################
(-: Great!!! example.dll sits happily in my folder... Now to test it: 
########################################################################

Problematic Execution:
-----------------------

D:\>python
ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import example
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function
(initexample)
>>>

########################################################################
)-: ARGH!!!!! checked the source for example.c, and guess what: it
actually does define an initexample function.
########################################################################

Enough close-but-no-cigar situations. Enough hanging references to
usefuls tools and hints (-; Has anyone actually done this without
having to shell out for Visual Studio/C++... Dammnit! Bill doesn't
need anymore!!

Thanks for any feedback,

Shakeeb


From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 23:12:14 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:12:14 -0000
Subject: PNG images in PhotoImage labels
Message-ID: <9knmae+k2iq@eGroups.com>

I am learning Python this summer, and kind of ran into a rut when I 
tried to display .png images in a simple label test. This is what I 
have so far:


from Tkinter import *

top = Tk()
top.title("Kuti")
top.geometry("200x100")

iKuti = PhotoImage(file = "gameboy.png")
lHello = Label(top, image = iKuti)
lHello.grid(row = 1, col = 1, sticky = W)
bQuit = Button(top, text="Quit", command = top.quit)
bQuit.grid(row = 1, col = 2, sticky = E)

top.mainloop()


This works with gameboy.gif, but gameboy.png displays an error:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tkinter.py", line 9, in ?
    iKuti = PhotoImage(file = "gameboy.png")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2974, in __init__
    apply(Image.__init__, (self, 'photo', name, cnf, master), kw)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.0/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2930, in __init__
    self.tk.call(('image', 'create', imgtype, name,) + options)
TclError: couldn't recognize data in image file "gameboy.png"


How do I get this to work with PNG images?





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 04:22:12 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:22:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Another two examples of using changing classes
References: <637b94bc.0108131426.48c84b3d@posting.google.com> <O_0e7.101053$EP6.25883351@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <Xns90FD5D13AF3B5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote in 
news:O_0e7.101053$EP6.25883351 at news1.rdc2.pa.home.com:

>> I have a proxy class that forwards network requests to a remote
>> server. When it gets disconnected, it still needs to respond to
>> commands, albeit with failure responses.
>>
>> However, if a certains commands are given to the instance it can
>> reconnect and start working normally again.
>>
>> The other way to do this is to have two classes - Connected and
>> Disconnected, and the instance switches between the classes to change
>> the way it works. Doing this without changing classes would require
>> having a frontend instance and a changing backend instance, and double
>> the number of function calls done with every operation. 
> 
> A third way is to have a 'connected' variable and make every function
> conditional on the state variable.  Changing class is much cleaner.

And for those who have read the Gang of Four book, this is the State 
pattern which replaces the state variable and tests everywhere with a 
helper class for each state and forwarding each method to the current 
helper class. They also note that for languages that support it, another (I 
can't remember if they say better) way is to change the class of the object 
to reflect the state directly.

I would think that the two most Pythonic ways to implement the State 
pattern would be to either have a base class with the common behaviour, and 
one derived class for each state, mutating the actual class to follow the 
current state, or simply have some helper classes with the state specific 
methods and update the instance's dictionary on state change.

Somehow the C++ish alternative of forwarding all the methods doesn't appeal 
(even though in Python you could do the forwarding once in __getattr__), 
and the state variable really sucks.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From bokr at accessone.com  Tue Aug 28 17:11:25 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:11:25 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <3b8bfea9.705835658@wa.news.verio.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:41:57 GMT, "Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote:

><gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:9mfqmi$ko4$1 at thorium.cix.co.uk...
>> In article <9mfm1l$gs3$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl>,
>> piotrlg at sci.pam.szczecin.pl (Piotr Legiecki) wrote:
>>
>> > How can I tell python to give me only 2 digits after decimal point? And
>> > of course store it in a variable.
>> >
>> > So I want 'c' to be 3.33.
>>
>> c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)
>
>That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
Unreliable in what sense?
>
>c = (a * 100) / b
>s = '%03d' % c
>file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
>
Making a function of your logic:

 >>> def foodiv(a,b):
 ...     c = (a * 100) / b
 ...     s = '%03d' %c
 ...     return s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:]
 ...

 >>> for x in [30,-30,60,-60]: print foodiv(x,9)
 ...
 3.33
 -3.34
 6.66
 -6.67

Is that the reliable results you think he wants? ;-)
Whereas

 >>> for x in [30,-30,60,-60]: print '%.2f'%(float(x)/9)
 ...
 3.33
 -3.33
 6.67
 -6.67

You shouldn't mess with newbie minds like that ;-)




From just at letterror.com  Thu Aug  2 17:53:53 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:53:53 +0200
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
		<20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
		<etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <mailman.996784024.24606.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B69CBF1.7EC7A850@letterror.com>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "A" == Alex  <new_name at mit.edu> writes:
> 
>     A> Actually, are the mailing lists mirrored anywhere?  I've gotten
>     A> stuck a couple of times for the want of them.
> 
> The mailing lists are all on mail.python.org a completely different
> machine than www.python.org (not even in the same building, and soon,
> probably not even on the same continent :).
> 
> AFAIK, the list archives are not mirrored anywhere.

ActiveState also archives a bunch of them (if not all):

  http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/

Just


From claysjunkmail at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 30 12:17:33 2001
From: claysjunkmail at yahoo.com (Clayton Brown - Emmie Osawa)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 09:17:33 -0700
Subject: Python URLLIB
Message-ID: <1b9aff84.0108300817.757d9ad5@posting.google.com>

Is it possible to read / write cookies using URLLIB function...
Or is there a library which makes use of HTTPLIB to provide URLLIB + HEaders?

Emmie Osawa


From joonas at olen.to  Fri Aug 24 07:15:36 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:15:36 GMT
Subject: Getting rid of deprecationwarnings
Message-ID: <3B86376F.4C3C8430@olen.to>

I am using Gadfly with Python 2.1 and because Gadfly uses regex module,
it warns me every time I use it.
How can I get rid of that warning?


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 07:18:01 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:18:01 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:27:42 +0400."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131015580.28208-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108131015580.28208-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru> 
Message-ID: <200108131118.HAA17568@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

> I am against PEP 252 in its present form!

The problem you indicate below has to do with PEP 253, not PEP 252.

> It makes OO in Python too complex without obvious necessity.

Huh?  I've always thought that the inability to subclass built-in
classes made OO more complex than necessary, and that's what these
PEPs (together with PEP 254, which won't be part of Python 2.2) are
removing.

> One of the cool features of Python I am glad it has is the ability
> to change class attributes on the fly (I've already posted it to
> Guido some time ago (maybe a year ago), specifically asking NOT TO
> CHANGE this Python ability.

You will still be able to do that, by putting __dynamic__ = 1 in your
base class (it is automatically inherited).

> No API will make things as simple as they are shown below:
> 
> This is my test if the changes to the Python are appropriate
> for me:
[snip]

Here's a version that works with Python 2.2.  I've commented lines I
changed or added.  The "__dynamic__ = 1" line must be added because
new-style classes will be immutable by default (note: classic classes
are not affected in Python 2.2).  The try/except statement with the
call to object.__getattr__() is because new-style classes allow you to
overload __getattr__ for all attribute accesses -- classic classes
only call __getattr__ when "normal" attribute access fails, which is
less flexible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

def do_fly(self):
    return "I am flying."
def do_swim(self):
    return "I am swimming."
def do_sing(self):
    return "I am singing."

class Everybody(object):
    __dynamic__ = 1					# Added
    def i_am(self):
        return "I am %s." % self.__class__.__name__
    def __getattr__(self, attname):
        """This is added only for the text below to be "nice",
        in reality it is not needed"""
        try:						# Added
            return object.__getattr__(self, attname)	# Added
        except AttributeError:				# Added
            def cant_do(self=None, action=attname):
                return "I can't %s." % action
            return cant_do

class Fish(Everybody):
    swim = do_swim

class Mermaid(Everybody):
    sing = do_sing
    swim = do_swim

class Bird(Everybody):
    fly = do_fly
    sing = do_sing

class Man(Everybody):
    sing = do_sing

f = Fish(); r = Mermaid(); b = Bird(); m = Man()
print f.i_am(), f.swim(), f.sing(), f.fly()
print r.i_am(), r.swim(), r.sing(), r.fly()
print b.i_am(), b.swim(), b.sing(), b.fly()
print m.i_am(), m.swim(), m.sing(), m.fly()
print "Man learned to swim."
Man.swim = do_swim
print m.i_am(), m.swim(), m.sing(), m.fly()

> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I am Fish. I am swiming. I can't sing. I can't fly.
> I am Mermaid. I am swiming. I am singing. I can't fly.
> I am Bird. I can't swim. I am singing. I am flying.
> I am Man. I can't swim. I am singing. I can't fly.
> Man learned to swim.
> I am Man. I am swiming. I am singing. I can't fly.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------

The above code gives the identical same output under Python 2.2.  Try
it!

> So I fully understand Glyph's concerns!
> 
> As I said already, PEP252 makes things too complex. Probably, there is a
> more obvious way to make builtin classes inheritable and type==class
> things. 
> 
> For example, by using __builtin__ trick:
> 
> class MyNumber(integer):
> 
>    def myadd(self, x, y):
>      return x*y
> 
>    __builtin__.add = myadd

Sorry -- I have no idea what you are proposing here.  What is
'integer'?  What is the meaning of '__builtin__'?  It can't be the
__builtin__ module.  But then what is it?

> The essence of the idea is to gather builtin (C) methods into special
> namespace: __builtin__, the same way it is done with builtin fuctions.
> This will allow Python programmers to remember less details and
> will give shadowing for free!!!

Three exclamation points do not an argument make.

> The summary of proposal is to leave things as they are, but to introduce
> __builtin__ namespace for optimized methods.
> 
> (Name __builtin__ could be different)

Roman, forgive me for saying so, but I think you're way out of your
league here.  Rather than trying to propose your own design, please
study my example above and see if you're still unhappy.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug 27 13:47:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:47:06 -0400
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
References: <mailman.998892039.9270.python-list@python.org> <3b8a7483.604933858@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3Gvi7.46639$54.2561731@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Perhaps Tim was trying to suggest you need another approach. If you're
having problems downloaded .exe files, how would you download a reliable
md5sum.exe?

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b8a7483.604933858 at wa.news.verio.net...
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:59:11 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
> >[Bengt Richter]
> >> ...
> >> It wouldn't be that hard to gin up a little stand-alone .exe to do
> >> what md5sum.py does.
> >
> >Thinking-cap time:  the problem doesn't come up at all unless they're
having
> >trouble downloading .exe files.
> >
> >
> 01-04-17  20:17  6,272,831 D:\Python\Python-2_1.exe    (my last download)
> 00-07-17  15:45     32,768 C:\UTIL\lsm.exe             (my ls md5 utility)
>
> if p() is probabability of download error for n bytes (even on the same
day ;-),
> what is p(6,272,831):p(32,768) ?
>
> Not good enough odds? Or were you thinking of the subset of problems
unaffected
> by byte length (yet perhaps checkable with a length number) ?
>
> 8-<;-)
>
>




From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 16 06:34:43 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:34:43 +0200
Subject: simple example of bit manipulation in python?
Message-ID: <3B832F37@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> =====
>Hi,
>
>Can anobody point to or provide a simple example of bit manipulation using
>plain python?

Not sure what you want here... You can use the & ^ | >> << operators, like in 
C. A trivial example:

>>> a = 2001
>>> a & 1973
1937
>>> a | 1973
2037
>>> a ^ 1973
100
>>> a >> 1
1000
>>> a << 1
4002

If you meant something more sophisticated, like high-level functions to set 
the Nth bit of a number, or working with binary numbers, then I might have 
something in my snippet collection. I can look it up for you if you want.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From just at letterror.com  Tue Aug  7 13:53:24 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:53:24 +0200
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B7013C1.60403@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B702B13.F2CC43CB@letterror.com>

Mark Robinson wrote:
> 
> ok, thats a bit more eligant (and efficient) than my attempt in my reply
> to Hans :). You really think that can be written in "far fewer lines"?
> 
> thanks alot
> 
> blobby
> 
> I have no idea whether a list
>  > comprehension in place of the second (double)
>  > loop would be faster, because they have sometimes
>  > turned out to be slower in places where you'd
>  > think they'd be faster.)
> 
> What is a list comprehension, just out of interest :), I am always
> looking to reduce my ignorance.

This one uses list comprehensions (it's based on David Ullrich's version):


input = [[1, 2], [4, 5, 6], [8, 9]]

def perm(alist):
    if len(alist) < 2:
        return [[item] for item in alist[0]]
    tails = perm(alist[1:])
    return [[item] + p for item in alist[0] for p in tails]

for x in perm(input):
    print x
print


Just


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Sat Aug 11 17:52:02 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:52:02 +0200
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECJLFAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c122af$df695d10$ccbd6ac2@zko>

From: Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com>

>     Jython allows keywords to be used as identifier name in some
>     situations where there are no conflict.  This allows jython to
>     call and override java methods with names like 'print' and
>     'exec'.
> 
> CPython may grow that ability too someday, depending on when you submit a
> patch to implement it <wink>.
> 

That would be nice!
So, new keywords could go in fluently !? :)

gzeljko






From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 20 23:34:06 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:34:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: simple graphics lib
In-Reply-To: <b740d7ae.0108201837.59b66065@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108202231250.12480-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On 20 Aug 2001, Bignose3 wrote:

> I am a student learning python on my own, coming from a C++ backgroud.
>  I am working on a simple project, a simulation of fish, as a way to
> gain experience using python.  I am looking for a simple graphics lib
> that will allow me to display objects- like circles or squares to
> represent the objects I am coding.  Is anyone aware of a lib that will
> allow me to do this.  When learning C++ I used the CMU Graphics Lib
> which worked great.  Let me know if anyone has any ideas.

You may want to check out PyGame, which does pretty much what you've asked
for:

  http://www.pygame.org

If you want to add a GUI to your application, (windows, menus, etc) but
still use the PyGame framework for graphics:

  http://pyui.sourceforge.net


                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 04:54:28 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:54:28 +0100
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
Message-ID: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Whilst trying to recompile an extension with freeBSD 4.2 + Python-2.1.1
I'm getting the following error.

/usr/local/include/python2.1/unicodeobject.h:91: wchar.h: No such file
or directory


This extension compiled OK with Python-2.1. So must I upgrade my OS or
is this a buglet of some kind?
-- 
Robin Becker


From carlf at panix.com  Thu Aug  2 21:39:00 2001
From: carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 01:39:00 GMT
Subject: Python 2.x on Debian stable
References: <slrn9mj242.8l.carlf@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.996785285.26685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9mk05k.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.996785285.26685.python-list at python.org>, Trent Mick wrote:
 
> If you are scared of Python 2.x breaking dpkg you could make sure to not use
> Python 2.x when you run as root (because you only run dpkg as root right).

Actually, I use dpkg as ordinary user a lot, but only with the -s or
-S flags, which wouldn't involve Python.

Thanks.
-- 
Carl Fink		carlf at dm.net


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 16:58:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Case insensitivity
References: <mailman.995637214.19543.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20010803215845.16469d@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <mailman.995637214.19543.python-list at python.org>, 
guido at digicool.com (Guido van Rossum) wrote:

> > You seem to want to change the core of the language every other day.
> 
> Eh?  Evolution of the language is inevitable.  We *need* to fix old
> design mistakes.  When it's possible to do so without breaking old
> code, everybody cheers.  Sometimes it's not possible without breaking
> old code, and then I try my darndest to find a way that will let old
> code work.

But you seem to have the idea that there is a "perfect language". Below 
you refer to an 80% solution. An 80% solution to what? It is roughly a 0% 
solution to what I do professionally, but was a 100% solution to what I 
was doing for my postgrad project. If you fixed the things that stop me 
using it professionally [1] then you'd break the things that made it work 
on my postgrad. Inevitably. When you want to fix "mistakes", why do you 
think you get howls of protest? It's because for /some/ of us those are 
not mistakes at all, they're Just The Way It Should Be. The changes are 
not improving the language, they're just shuffling around the marketplace, 
and it's in serious danger of never staying in one market sector for long 
enough to take off as well as it should (because it really is a delight to 
work with).

You have lots of good ideas and suggestions from others. /Please/ don't 
change Python to accommodate them all; it would spoil it. Put them into a 
/new/ language. Maybe even build in call and data level compatibility so 
they can be well integrated. Then people can choose whichever one is best 
for the task. 

On the particular issue of case sensitivity, by the way, I'm in favour of 
an environment /option/ to warn if identifiers differ in case only. Not of 
a language change.

> > I've been there myself, on other projects... everything works 
> > correctly
> > and is almost perfect, but being a programmer you want to change
> > SOMETHING just to be fiddling with it.  "Almost perfect" is about the
> > best anyone in the Real World can hope for.
> 
> Sorry, that's not the affliction I am suffering from.  I know very
> well that Python will always be an 80% solution, and I'm happy to
> leave well enough alone.  There just are areas where I think future
> generations would thank me if I fixed it now...
> 
> > I've said it before, and I'll say it again... thanks with all my heart
> > for the best programming language I've ever worked in.
> 
> You're welcome.

Tim Rowe

[1] Strong typing, formal semantics, full control over memory management 
and deterministic timing for a start -- I work with safety-of-life 
systems!


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Aug 23 19:42:12 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:42:12 -0700
Subject: exceptions from modules
References: <32cedc66.0108231530.7528680@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8594D4.E92362AF@alcyone.com>

"Matthew D. Wood" wrote:

> However, I have seen PLENTY of examples of modules that seemingly defy
> scoping rules in the way they present their exceptions to the world.
> And instead you can write:
> 
> except my_exception, value :
> 
> How do they do that?  Where is the exception defined?

Do you have an example?  Probably the user of the module was using the
from module import * trick, even if it wasn't immediately obvious.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Sometimes there's no point in giving up.
\__/ Louis Wu
    Kepler's laws / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/kepler/
 A proof of Kepler's laws.


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 15 15:19:10 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:19:10 -0500
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <tnlf54bhh07c7@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>
        <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
        <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com>
        <mailman.997887028.29027.python-list@python.org>
        <tnlf54bhh07c7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <15226.52014.493832.124654@beluga.mojam.com>

    John> The issue seems to be that to find a variable, you have to search
    John> up the entire static calling chain, using a dictionary lookup at
    John> each level until you find the object you've named. It seems like
    John> the expensive piece is the multi-level search using a dictionary
    John> lookup. If this could be speeded up, there wouldn't be any need
    John> for a "tracking" mechanism, with the attendant complexities.

    John> One way of making this faster would be to change the
    John> implementation of the identifier lookup so that it used an array
    John> at all levels. The dictionary would then contain identifier/index
    John> pairs instead of identifier/object pairs.

Even if you could replace all dicts with arrays, you'd still have to walk up
the chain.  That implies probably at least a few function calls.  In
addition, you seem to be suggesting replacing a dictionary with a dictionary
and a list.  If I ask for attribute "foo", you need to map "foo" to an array
index, then index the array to return the object bound to "foo".  You still
place the burden on the code that uses the object to look it up each and
every time.  My proposal places the onus on the code that updates the
object, so the client code can always just index into its fastlocals array
to get at an object.  If the object bound to the object I'm interested in
changed since the last time I accessed it, I know the relevant slot in
fastlocals as also been updated.

PEP 266 proposes to replace what is currently a fairly large number of
function calls with a single array lookup in the most common case.  It
should be a big win if I can handle the various corner cases and keep module
authors from blowing off their feet.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Aug 12 08:52:09 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:52:09 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com> <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l40tk01pfn@enews4.newsguy.com> <MB4yXKAheld7EwsX@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l5ql10sbt@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <6Def3XA5vnd7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9l5ql10sbt at enews4.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
....
>
>These are not modules that run unit tests when run as main scripts.
>
>> I consider that a bit strange since it seems that the special case of
>> main script circularity is harder to detect/avoid; I believe that's
>> onlyc caused by the special module name.
>
>The special module name 'half-breaks' circularity, just enough to
>let you run unit tests decently.

well if the name were kept the same and my special magic __main__
variable worked that wouldn't be required, so we would have clarity and
functionality. However, I feel that the real underlying problem is that
it is possible for the same module level code to have two different
module names and that this is the real ambiguity.

There's probably some reason for allowing A.B and B to have the same
module source and be different modules, but I don't know what it is. The
same is true for the __main__ module it's probably too difficult to work
out what the true module name should be.
-- 
Robin Becker


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 16:08:14 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:08:14 GMT
Subject: Confusion about iterator types
References: <vabbnt8mnnc3f2tt1chpf2q4sp406qagbc@4ax.com> <j43d6x48s9.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nj19c.5k4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

12 Aug 2001 17:06:46 +0200, Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> pisze:

> So in general, the __name__ of a type is only roughly related to
> the name to which it is bound in the types module.

At least it tries to be similar to the name under which it's available
in builtins, if it is available. There are some inconsistencies though:

>>> 1 .__add__
<method-wrapper object at 0x8138878>
>>> type(1 .__add__)
<type 'method-wrapper'>
>>> int.__add__
<slot wrapper '__add__' of 'int' objects>
>>> type(int.__add__)
<type 'wrapper_descriptor'>

Note hyphens and underscores.

> If you can point to an actual problem that the current name causes,
> you should make it a bug report.

The reason I would like type names and their reprs to be consistent
is that there are several new types in Python 2.1a. It's not easy
to find out how the complex machinery works - good and consistent
terminology should help a bit.

Especially as there are several "parallel families": values and their
types, things and their iterators, things and their descriptors, things
and their wrappers, or whatever - I don't understand the details.
There are a dozen objects with the string "method" in their repr.
It's all confusing. Maybe some nice diagrams with parallel lines or
at least tables would help...

>>   TypeError: object is not callable: <callable-iterator object at 00B6D10C>

Wonderful error message :-)

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug 22 18:53:05 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:53:05 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.998461055.15577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b843750.196050225@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:16:21 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter, on the marshal format for longs]
>> ...
>>  (a little-endian string made from the internal int chunk count
>> and the following n chunks of two bytes each holding a little-endian
>> short 15-bit number)
>> ...
>> BTW, the marshaled long format is apparently platform-dependent,
>
>That's not apparent to me <wink>, and it's intended to be
>platform-independent.  marshal is what Python uses internally to create .pyc
>and .pyo files, and they're routinely transported across platforms.
>
>"15" is a constant across all platforms, and endianess is forced by
>reading/writing one byte at a time.
>
Ok, I misspoke ;-). (Especially since the very purpose of 'marshaling' is to generate
a platform-independent representation *<;-)

I should have said, "might be version dependent." The format just struck me as
very implementation-specific. As it turns out, on my little endian machine, it's
a straight image of the data of the long data representation, prefixed with a type
identifier character 'l'.

I'd guess 15 was chosen so that unsigned addition could be done in C without overflow,
and not all platforms could handle 31 (or products of 31). But sheesh, a little assembler
code would get you faster arithmetic and the possibility of a more platform independent,
packed format (e.g., type code + 32-bit count of bytes following + the n bytes).
The same format would then be usable in 16 or 32 (and maybe even 64 for add) bit chunks.

Of course, one volunteer can write the C, and it would take one per platform to write
assembler ;-/

OTOH, one intel32 volunteer doing assembly for GNU and MS tools could benefit a lot of
folks. If the marshal format were packed for compilation purposes, other platforms would
take the hit importing it into their internal long representations, and their interpreters
would have to have that capability. Maybe type code 'L' instead of 'l' ? (Or more generally,
see below...)

Hm, I wonder how much compiled code gets generated on one platform and executed on another
as a percentage of the total. Every time anyone does anything interactively, it's all local
pretty much 99+% I would think.

I'm leading to the notion of local marshalling for code to be used efficiently on the same
machine, vs. a generic export marshalling hub format. (I.e., hub in the sense that all formats
should be translatable to and from the hub format, but not necessarily directly to each other).

The idea would be that a system would recognize a foreign format and convert it for local
use, and that the hub format would be used for general distribution, when people wanted to
be politically correct.

Again, the concept behind the concept is a unified idea with multiple possible representations.
Marshalled representations could have an optional flavor prefix, starting with a character
not used for current types, e.g., 'M' for special-flavor marshaling, followed if present with
one or two characters to identify the flavor. Each platform could then easily recognize its own
flavor and presumbably do a memmove to stuff a simple object, instead of doing endian-compensating
serial packing one chunk's worth of bytes at a time.

If the flavor was not local, it wouldn't hurt, it would just slow things down, until a local
version got cached or written to file.




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 18 13:50:18 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 10:50:18 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhev5z291.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <BrianQ at ActiveState.com> writes:
> The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> enough for you.

I dislike the runtime system and the doctrinaire OO culture that's
grown up around Java, but having constants, and rigorously enforcing
protection of private class members and methods is one thing Java did
right.  It makes the "applet sandbox" very straightforward.  This
is useful for web browser extensions but also for security coprocessors
(Dallas Java iButton, Nci

I understand Python has some kind of "restricted execution" package
that might take care of this but I haven't studied it yet.  Perl has
one but it's kludgy.


From fugate at lucent.com  Fri Aug 10 14:42:16 2001
From: fugate at lucent.com (Cris A. Fugate)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:42:16 -0500
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
In-Reply-To: <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.997452856.7709.python-list@python.org>
 <Xns90F9AECBDF45Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101302250.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>

Hi, I am trying to port some Tcl stuff to Python. Its kind of disturbing
that Python cannot handle scope. Sure you have namespaces, but that
doesn't help in this situation. In Tcl I would just say..

proc swap {a b} {
   upvar a x
   upvar b y
   set z x
   set x y
   set y z
}
swap a b

But in Python I have to say..

def swap (a, b):
   return b, a
a,b = swap(a,b)

-or-

def swap ():
   global a,b
   x=a
   a=b
   b=x
swap()

I dont know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Tcl cannot
handle multiple assignment, but Python cannot handle scoping.
It makes functions less powerful, but it also seems to make the
code more readable (IMHO).

BTW, I also noticed that python is rather weak in variable
substitution. In Tcl I can say..

set x 5; set y "x"
expr $$y + 1
=>6

I cant do this in python without resorting to something like
dictionaries..

y={'x':'z', 'z':5}
y.get(y.get('x')) + 1
=>6

**********************************************************************
Cris A. Fugate          Lucent Technologies, Robust Process Automation
fugate at lucent.com       http://ihgpweb.ih.lucent.com/~fugate
630 713-8255            Sponsor of the lucent.lang.tcl newsgroup


On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Duncan Booth wrote:

> "Matthew D. Wood" <woodm at equire.com> wrote in
> news:mailman.997452856.7709.python-list at python.org:
>
> > How do you make a swap function?
> >
> The easy way:
>
> a, b = b, a
>
> and of course you aren't restricted to two values:
>
> a, b, c = b, c, a
>
> If you are *really* sure you want a function that swaps its arguments, try:
>
> def swap(a, b): return b, a
> a, b = swap(a, b)
>
> Python isn't C. Its better.
>
> --
> Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
> int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
> "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?
>



From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 12:47:14 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:47:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <9mlnsh$2emk$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108301241570.29615-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to convince my boss to start a new project (Web service + Web
> "heavy" dedicated client) with Python when he prefers PHP.
> He's arguing that it's easier to find PHP programmers than Python
> programmers in France (he's right)
> I'm arguing that any good PHP or Java programmer can be a good Python
> programmer in one week (I'm right).
> Unfortunately, learning Zope is some more difficult than Apache/mod_php
> (he's right, I started Zope 6 months ago an I'm still dead brained on some
> problems)
> Can you give me some arguments to make the decision ?
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
> --Gillou

You say it uses a "heavy" dedicated client. What do you mean by that?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From clarence at netlojix.com  Sat Aug 11 17:33:41 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 14:33:41 -0700
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <414c3d87.0108111333.21266182@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<cpy9os91sp.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>...
> "gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:
> 
> > I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
> > 'natural question':
> > 
> > Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> > necessary ?
> 
> If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
> can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
> breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
> silent break.
> 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

(Sorry about my previous blank followup; knews is an okay reader, but for
some reason it doesn't include the followup in its followups....)

While I'm sure I've never used 'yield' as an identifier, I would prefer
that the future_stmt protocol (which I think was a grand idea) not be
avoided on a case-by-case basis.  And I'm a bit amazed that Guido would
suggest that, given his past reluctance to introduce new keywords.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 13:26:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:26:37 +0200
Subject: How to define a callback from Python to a C program ...
References: <3B7AB97F.E2103C67@toppoint.de>
Message-ID: <9lebg202mlp@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Marten Feldtmann" <marten at toppoint.de> wrote in message
news:3B7AB97F.E2103C67 at toppoint.de...
> I want to extend my application (not written in C) with Python and
> I want to call from Python to my program and give my program some
> information (say a string) ... it's something like a callback.
>
> Can this be done ???

It depends.  On Windows, it's easy, if the non-C language you
used to develop your application has decent COM support
(Visual Basic, Delphi, etc, are all fine).  On other platforms
there's no really standardized way to accomplish the same
tasks, although you could have a try with Corba.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 25 23:58:55 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:58:55 -0400
Subject: Python 2.1.1 install glitch (Windows binary)
In-Reply-To: <8iaeot0r5td7qbh5t3bdnj5pkrhp48nph1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBHLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Kirby Urner]
> I've just reinstalled 2.1.1. final and find that the
> file association string I'd manually fixed awhile ago
> was reset back to:
>
>    D:\Program Files\Python21\python.exe "%1" %*

There's A Reason the installer doesn't default to a path with embedded
spaces.  If you want to cure this, don't go out of your way to *create* the
problem.  Whether paths with embedded spaces "work" varies from context to
context, and not even MS's stuff always deals with them correctly (quoted or
not).

> This is under Folder Options, where you scroll down
> to the PY snake icon, click Advanced | Edit and see
> the boot string associated with PY files.
>
> What __should__ be the boot string is:
>
>    "D:\Program Files\Python21\python.exe" %1 %1

I can understand why you want quotes around the .exe name, but don't
understand why you took the quotes off of %1, or duplicated %1 (instead of
leaving %* in).

> This problem may be confined to those setups wherein
> Python is installed in a path which includes spaces in the
> pathname (as in "Program Files").

Yes.

> When the string is messed up, as shown initially, the
> files may still boot in Python, meaning this is a subtle
> problem.  But you won't be able to get cgi to work if
> you set up a web server, for example.  I run Savant
> to test cgi scripts, and without the manual fix (second
> string), it won't execute Python in cgi mode.

I'd say it's a Savant bug, then -- as you say, Python and Windows have no
problems with it.

Beginning with the 2.2a2 installer (released last Wednesday), I convert the
installation path to DOS 8.3 names instead.  Then there are never embedded
spaces, so nothing should get confused -- except for the poor *person*
reading it and seeing gibberish like D:\PROGRA~2\PYTHON21\PYTHON.EXE.

programs-win-people-lose-ly y'rs  - tim




From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 18:15:22 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:15:22 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <9lc3nh01vk0@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nj8nq.a5u.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:03:28 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> pisze:

>> > How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
>> > that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
>> > temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)
>>
>> y.a, (b,c,d), x.e = [wower()] * 3
> 
> Neat!  OK, mysentence += "or nested-tuple-unpacking (dbl yech!-)"

I'm not sure if it should be considered introducing a temporary
variable (it doesn't add a name to the current scope), but here it is:

y.a, b, c, d, x.e = \
  (lambda z: (lambda z1, z2, z3: (z, z1, z2, z3, z))(*z))(wower())

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From sill at optonline.net  Sun Aug  5 12:45:38 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 16:45:38 GMT
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <ku66c2r1ha.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <slrn9mqtpt.3e8.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On 05 Aug 2001 18:05:37 +0300, Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> In article <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
> sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:
> 
>| Anyway, this solution doesn't work in 2.1 - termios module doesn't
>| have this attribute, (TERMIOS is deprecated and doesn't have it either).
> 
> hmm, it works on my machine (debian, self built python 2.1):

Also Debian (woody), self-build 2.1:

>>> termios.TIOCGWINSZ
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  AttributeError: 'termios' module has no attribute 'TIOCGWINSZ'
>>> TERMIOS.TIOCGWINSZ
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  AttributeError: 'TERMIOS' module has no attribute 'TIOCGWINSZ'

Doh :/ What could be the problem? Anyone know?

> 
>>>> import TERMIOS      
> /usr/local/lib/python2.1/TERMIOS.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the TERMIOS module is deprecated; please use termios
>   DeprecationWarning)
>>>> TERMIOS.TIOCGWINSZ
> 21523
>>>> import termios
>>>> termios.TIOCGWINSZ
> 21523
> 
> 
>| What's tigetstr?
> 
> my guess is that it's a library function for accessing the terminfo
> database. i don't think python exposes it.
> 
>   -- erno


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From rcspython at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 15:13:25 2001
From: rcspython at yahoo.com (rcspython at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:13:25 -0000
Subject: Subclassing a win32com.client.Dispatch() Object?
Message-ID: <9lbt8l+u3cg@eGroups.com>

Can this be done usign win32com?
I have win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS)

I need something like 

class myclass(?????):#What values are used for ?????
  def __init__(????):
    #What code goes here?

myobj = myclass(win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents
("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS))

Or something like this...

I have tried everything I can think of with no luck.
I'm sure I am making a stupid mistake and would appreciate any
help.

Cheers!
Ron




From chase at gnuchina.org  Fri Aug 10 03:52:24 2001
From: chase at gnuchina.org (Benjamin Wu)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:52:24 +0800
Subject: Question about Tkinter
Message-ID: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de>

When I use Tkinter, I met a question as following:
I create three buttons and thire callback function
is the same, how to know which button active callback
function when one of they pressed?

Anyone can help me?




From myself at robballen.com  Sat Aug 18 23:02:00 2001
From: myself at robballen.com (Robb Allen (remove spaces))
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 03:02:00 GMT
Subject: Zope question
Message-ID: <I_Ff7.12981$0X.3469332@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>

(Hope this isn't too off topic) I just installed Zope onto my Win2K Advanced
server. I go to the tutorial, but I keep getting the "Zope cannot find the
tutorial examples" error. I've went to my root folder and clicked Zope
Tutorial from the dropdown list, gave it an ID of Zope Tutorial, and still
get the same error.

Any hints?

R

P.S. Yes, I am a newbie. Is it that obvious?




From rbtns082484 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  7 11:12:36 2001
From: rbtns082484 at hotmail.com (Rbtns)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:12:36 -0400
Subject: Anygui needs a Tkinter programmer
References: <9kkoga$6vj$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3B700564.A6415E3A@hotmail.com>

I just learned Tkinter within the last month and like working in it a
lot.  I will check out the source at
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cvstarballs/anygui-cvsroot.tar.gz
I'm am very interested in helping out with this project and would like
more information about it.
Thank you,
Robert Schneider

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:

> The Anygui project is well underway, but needs an
> adventurous Tkinter programmer. This is an open
> source project, aiming to create a generic front-end
> to several (eventually, hopefully most) of the GUI
> packages available for Python. For more info, see
> the project web page:
>
>     http://anygui.sf.net
>
> No long-term commitment is necessary.
>
> --
>
>   Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org
>
>  "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
>   it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 20:50:40 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:50:40 +1000
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <01080310371304.14602@ike>
References: <01080310085603.14602@ike> <01080310371304.14602@ike>
Message-ID: <01080310504005.14602@ike>

On Friday 03 August 2001 10:37, Richard Jones wrote:
> On Friday 03 August 2001 10:08, you wrote:
> > So what I need to know is if there is some way to import the
> > instance_home package as "instance" rather than as "roundup".
>
> This looks like a lost cause (*). It's just plain too icky :(
>
> Oh well.
>
>
>     Richard
>
> * even if I manage to convince the import mechanisms to import /tmp/roundup
> as "instance", there's imports in the /tmp/roundup package "from roundup
> import foo" which are always going to break. Ho hum.

Hey, this is a fun conversation I'm having with myself here :)

The above comment was written because I was doing:

>>> import imp, sys
>>> sys.path.insert(0,'/tmp')
>>> imp.load_module('instance', None, '/tmp/roundup', ('', '', 5))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "./roundup/templates/classic/__init__.py", line 9, in ?
    from interfaces import *
  File "./roundup/templates/classic/interfaces.py", line 6, in ?
    from roundup import cgi_client, mailgw 
ImportError: cannot import name cgi_client

... but further investigation shows that the "sys.path.insert(0,'/tmp')" is 
not needed...

>>> import imp, sys
>>> imp.load_module('instance', None, '/tmp/roundup', ('', '', 5))
<module 'instance' from '/tmp/roundup/__init__.pyc'>
>>> sys.modules['roundup']
<module 'roundup' from 'roundup/__init__.pyc'>

Yay! :)

Sorry for the noise :)


     Richard



From pmoscatt at iprimus.com.au  Wed Aug  1 23:59:22 2001
From: pmoscatt at iprimus.com.au (Peter Moscatt)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:22 +1000
Subject: How to define a GLOBAL Variable ?
Message-ID: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au>

If I wish to define a variable that I want to become global to ALL classes
within a .py file - how is this best achieved ?

Pete





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 14:35:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:35:43 -0400
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
In-Reply-To: <slrn9n833f.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEPJLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Just van Rossum]
> What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
>
>   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/

[Grant Edwards]
> Is the Y axis a cumulative total, or messages per unit time.

If it were cumulative, how would you account for it going down some months?
Aha!  Broken integer division <wink>.

There are actually 12 bars per year, each representing the number of
postings in one month.




From dwig at advancedmp.net  Tue Aug 21 19:24:53 2001
From: dwig at advancedmp.net (Don Dwiggins)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 16:24:53 -0700
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing  if statements...)
In-Reply-To: "Alex Martelli"'s message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:20:09 +0200"
References: <mailman.998401650.6829.python-list@python.org>
	<9lu1nr02nbs@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <u1ym5atdm.fsf_-_@advancedmp.net>

Alex Martelli writes:
> E.g., up to Python 2.1, whenever you code:
>     for x in asequence:
>         print x
> there will ALWAYS be an exception raised -- that's how the
> for statement knows the sequence is finished, by getting
> an IndexError exception from asequence[i] for some i.  Far
> from being 'exceptional', this must ALWAYS happen in ANY
> for statement that's not interrupted by break, return, or
> some other raise.  See -- exceptions are NOT only for
> exceptional cases, *in Python*.

Right, that's why they call them "exceptions" -- ummm, errr...

Alex, thanks for pointing this out.  I've been programming in Python for a
few months now, and this point never registered with me; as you mentioned, I
was thinking in "Java style".  A quick look at the tutorial in the
distribution docs and the relevant chapter in "Dive into Python" doesn't
mention this either.

So, are there some good patterns, idioms, or whatever to provide guidance on
when to use exceptions vs. checking error codes, etc. (other than the
obvious general qualities: ease of use, readability, modifiability, ...)?

-- 
Don Dwiggins                    "Solvitur Ambulando"
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Aug  3 04:37:30 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 10:37:30 +0200
Subject: https proto module?
References: <B78F2F18.AB1%krel@is-antisocial.net>
Message-ID: <j4elqta69h.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

krel <krel at is-antisocial.net> writes:

> Is there a module out there to deal with the https (http with an 's' on the
> end) protocol? I'd love it if there were.

The standard Python httplib module provides a class httplib.HTTPS. It
is only available if the socket module was compiled with OpenSSL.

Regards,
Martin



From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 19 14:35:55 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:35:55 +0100
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com> <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <9lp2ek$uou$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <oaWf7.56553$MC1.19193428@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lppoc$8n3$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Frederic Giacometti wrote:
>String exceptions refer to the exception value used when raising
>the exception.

Yes.

>But even then, string exceptions must be associated to an exception class,
>to which the above rule applies...

Sorry?  I don't understand.  What's the exception class in the following?

>>> try:
...   raise "test2"
... except "test1":
...   print "Test1"
... except "test2":
...   print "Test2"
... except "test3":
...   print "Test3"
...
Test2
>>>

(NB: this is all old-style Python exceptions.  Use class based
exceptions for new code.)

                    Andrew





From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug  1 16:49:06 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 20:49:06 GMT
Subject: case sensitivity redux (was Re: Language change and code breaks)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107191316390.24983-100000@bms> <mailman.995571273.18192.python-list@python.org> <9j7gv8$9mg@dispatch.concentric.net> <cppuawfqbm.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107231434170.15565-100000@oliphant.ee.byu.edu> <532qlt453irrepptskcvp213d44r3so2e2@4ax.com> <cp4rs2qf6p.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B5DF282.87266DA2@earthlink.net> <cpr8v5a8h5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9k5tg301mn9@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9mgqq1.9ma.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:24:18 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>One aspect I haven't seen mentioned in this huge thread is the
>issue of visually impaired programmers.  Case sensitivity is an
>extra burden for such people (with whom I strongly empathize: my
>sight is still OK, sufficient to drive a car &c, but it's going
>downhill with time, and I must face the very real possibility
>that I'll be _seriously_ visually impaired a few years from now).

I don't see what case insensitivity in the language would give you over a
case-correcting editor, aside from you having to use the case correcting
editor.  This could be a major inconvenience (or none at all if it's already
your current editor), but I think it at least balances out with the
incovenience of everyone else having to switch to a case insensitive language.

I also can't imagine anyone seriously proposing that I, l, 1 and 0, O be
treated as the same characters in identifiers, but these cause problems for
everyone.  Just today someone was trying to get a network card working using
the lO driver.  Or was it the I0 driver?

>Think of a useful tool for such an audience, a special-purpose
>'screen reader' that will read out loud a snippet of Python code:
>what's the tool going to do about distinguishing upper and lower
>case?

The output tool would never distinguish case, and the input tool wouldn't
either, but if you typed or spoke an identifier that was the same as another
except case it would change it to match.

>For those of you who can't really empathize with other's issues
>and misfortunes, imagine being in a situation where you'd often
>need to have source code read out loud to you (e.g. over a
>phone), and/or you'd often want to dictate code (e.g. to some
>kind of voice-recognition, dictation-taking automatic system).
>What's case sensitivity giving you, that would compensate for
>the serious bother it causes in those situations?

In that situation case sensitivity is more trouble than it's worth.  But we
optimize for the common cases.

The main thing I see against case sensitivity is the stylistic ambiguity.
Some people use lower case class names, many use CamelCase, and some use
Initial_capitalization, and some even use smallTalkCase.  I think this is more
due to the fact that python has never had a clear style guidline.
Unfortunately now we have an int vs.  StringIO wart (i.e. built-in types
didn't follow class name conventions, presumably because classes didn't exist
back then).

But case sensitivity wouldn't have helped this at all, it would just make it
worse because then names could be not only inconsistent with each other, but
inconsistent with themselves.  Some people would consider it more consistent
to write Int and Str, many would use the old int and str, and probably some
would try to be consistent with whatever code they're modifying and do it both
ways (but of course do it their favorite way for their own code, and when the
two get integrated...).

-- irrelevant digression --->

Even though eiffel is case insensitive (although some compilers can be case
sensitive, which is not useful), it has a well defined "correct" naming style.
I like the idea of one simple rule you can easily follow if you want to be
"right".  It would also probably be easier on newbies if you could say "class
names always start with a capital letter, and the rest are always lowercase,
even acronyms" than "class names are usually capitalized on each word, and
sometimes acronyms are all caps, and sometimes small noise words are lower
case, and sometimes underscores are used, but often they're not, etc.  Or you
could say "all names are lowercase, period".  Actually, I like the last best,
since why should I care whether it's a RealClass or a factory_function?  Of
course local variables can be named anything you like, so math people can have
their H and h, but if they made both names externally visible, they'd have to
be more descriptive.


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 31 04:41:02 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:41:02 +0200
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
References: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <9mni8b$1gjb$1@norfair.nerim.net>

In addition you can install Mark Hammon's win32all extension that register
python as scripting engine for ASP.
Exemple of ASP/Python are provided.
Get it somewhere (don't remember exactly where) in www.activestate.com
"Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> a ?crit dans le message news:
9mmvbl$kel$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> How to Config?
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  1 00:11:03 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:11:03 -0400
Subject: Bug?
References: <4835e825.0107241639.bbf438e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0hL97.8461$9i1.776789@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

As a general rule it's a very bad idea to change a list you're iterating
over with for.

a-list-by-any-other-name-can-still-be-changed-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Ricardo Correia" <google.com at wizemail1.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:4835e825.0107241639.bbf438e at posting.google.com...
> Hi
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> mainlist = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> copy = mainlist
>
> for item in copy:
>  print item,
>  mainlist.remove(item)
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Shouldn't this produce '1 2 3 4 5'?
>
> I only get '1 3 5' and unfortunately because of this my program doesn't
work.
>
> I'm using python 2.0 (the one that comes with Mandrake 8.0)
>
> Thanks
>
> Ricardo Correia




From wware at alum.mit.edu  Mon Aug 27 22:48:56 2001
From: wware at alum.mit.edu (Will Ware)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:48:56 -0400
Subject: test, and password generator
Message-ID: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu>

I'm tinkering with my email and usenet service, for which this is
a test. ObPython follows.

#!/usr/bin/env python
# handy password generator
import random, math

if 0:
     # short, cryptic passwords with rich character set
     # To avoid confusion, leave out 0, O, 1, and l.
     units = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijkmnopqrstuvwxyz23456789"
     units = units + """!@#$%^&*+=;:,.""" # Compensate with punctuation.
     separator = ""
elif 1:
     # short cryptic passwords with lowercase and digits only
     units = "abcdefghijkmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789"
     separator = ""
else:
     # long passwords made from real words
     # These are OK with Unix, bad with Windows.
     units = [ ]
     separator = "-"
     inf = open("/usr/dict/words")
     for x in inf.readlines():
         units.append(x[:-1])
     inf.close()

length = 10

e = length * math.log(len(units)) / math.log(2)
print "Entropy is %g bits" % e
# Assume the attacker attempts 100 logins per second, but can't get
# access to /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow. Then...
print "Cracking time is", (0.01 * 2**e) / (3600 * 24 * 365.24), "years"

pw = ""
for i in range(length):
     pw = pw + random.choice(units) + separator
if len(separator):
     pw = pw[:-len(separator)]

print "Password:", pw



From dietmar at schwertberger.de  Mon Aug 20 06:46:35 2001
From: dietmar at schwertberger.de (Dietmar Schwertberger)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:46:35 +0200
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ant2010350b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de>

In article <89d9e2ac4a%tim at worthy.demon.co.uk>, Tim Howarth
<URL:mailto:tim at worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <ant1923070b02%2U at schwertberger.freenet.de>
>           Dietmar Schwertberger <dietmar at schwertberger.de> wrote:
> 
> > In article <4aaca91302jcg at argonet.co.uk>, Mr  J C Greenwood
> > <URL:mailto:jcg at argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > > What do I need to do to run ITS-0/0?
> 
> > Unfortunately you can't run ITS on RISC OS as there is no port of Tk which
> > ITS uses for its GUI.
> 
> How big/difficult would it be to port Tk using the toolbox modules ?
Don't know.
It probably would be easier to build Tk and use a local X server. This 
should be possible, at least in theory...


Regards,

Dietmar



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 06:28:57 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:28:57 +0200
Subject: piiiipes!!
References: <mailman.999229007.29977.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mnota02bml@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.999229007.29977.python-list at python.org...
> On 30 Aug 2001, Jeff Grimmett wrote:
>
> >   while (t = file_1_read_object.read()):
> >      process_stuff()
> >      file_2_write_object.write(t)
>
> t = file_1_read_object.read()
> while t:
>   process_stuff()
>   file_2_write_object.write(t)
>   t = file_1_read_object.read()
>
> Granted, it's ugly, but it works.

It has the serious defect of violating the "once, and only
once" precept:-).  I'd rather avoid duplicating the read call:

while 1:
    t = whatever.read()
    if not t: break
    t = process(t)
    blahblah.write(t)

However, see also my "Assign and test" recipe on the Cookbook,
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061,
if you're really keen on being able to code this as, e.g.:

while data.set(whatever.read()):
    data.set(process(data.get()))
    blahblah.write(data.get())

The 'DataHolder' class to which instance data belongs is just
a 4-liner, after all, and you can place it in your sitecustomize
module if you're *really* fond of this idiom:-).


Alex






From jeandel at cse.psu.edu  Wed Aug  1 13:28:00 2001
From: jeandel at cse.psu.edu (Emmanuel Jeandel)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:28:00 -0400
Subject: Python Poll
Message-ID: <3B683C20.9E1D8983@cse.psu.edu>

Hi there !

I wonder whether s.o has some statistics about : What is python used for
?

I would suggest :

i. Scripts (Bash-like)

ii. Web (CGI Scripts/ Zope)

iii. Teaching

iv. Numerics

v. Small apps

vi. Bigger ones

I think some statistics could be useful to see where the interest is,
who are your users, what they're interested in (the discussion about PEP
238 seems to me as there are many people that use python for numerics;
if the majority use python for choices i/, ii/, iii/, and even v/ and
vi/, i think this proposal would certainly have been rejected). Can s.o
do some statistics ? (a poll in python.org could be a great idea)

Regards
Emmanuel


$dc
35 4 / p
8
^D

$ocaml
         Objective Caml version 3.01
# 35 / 4;;
- : int = 8
# ^D

$python
Python 1.5.2 (...)
>>> 35 / 4
8
>>> ^D

Where is the problem ?
(Ok, it's just for fun, i know where the problem is...)






From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 22 23:54:03 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:54:03 -0400
Subject: PEP 237 (was RE: Overflow-less integer arithmetic?)
In-Reply-To: <9lqiks$a2v$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGDLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Andrew Dalke]
> Despite what I said yesterday, I have used and needed lont ints
> a few times in real code.  There are two cases:
>   1) I expect to get large values (>2**31) frequently
>   2) I expect to get them infrequently
>
> Case #1 is the more common, and is solved by using an 'L' in the
> appropriate initialization.  There have been many times when the
> omission of the L was not caught until the testing phase, which
> means automatic conversion would have been prefered.
>
> Case #2 has only occured once, where >98% of the times the
> value could fit in a regular integer and I wanted the
> faster math performance.  In that case I did
>   try:
>     operation
>   except OverflowError:
>     redo the operation with longs

I've used long ints extensively, and indeed I first used Python "for real"
precisely because its long int performance was beating the pants off Icon's
at the time.  Exactly the same two cases apply to me, except that I've done
case #2 hundreds of times.  It's great to hear that I'm not completely out
of tune with your reality <wink>.

> So I have have no problems with the current 237 PEP, where
> int operations convert to long rather than raising an exception.

PEP 237 doesn't mention this, but there's a flip side to your case #2:

def chop(i):
    try:
        return int(i)
    except OverflowError:
        return i

That is, chop back a long to an int "if it fits", again to get the speed
boost in later calculations.  I wonder whether we could get away with that
too ...

one-day-one-revolution-ly y'rs  - tim




From edcjones at erols.com  Mon Aug 13 08:30:05 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:30:05 -0400
Subject: Compile Python (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B77C84D.8040100@erols.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> ...
> I guess I have a bit of a hidden agenda: Python is more dynamic than
> the language I *wanted* to design.  Some of the dynamicism was simply
> a implementation trick.  Some of the dynamicism is getting in the way
> of optimizing code, because the optimizer can never prove that certain
> variables won't be changed.  So I'm trying to look for ways that pin
> down things a bit more.  I'm making assumptions about how "typical"
> Python code uses the dynamic features, and I'm slowly trying to
> introduce restrictions in the language that make the optimizer's life
> easier without affecting "typical" code.
> ...

I hope you are evolving Python into a language that can be compiled into 
good, fast, native object code. Then maybe I can abandon C, C++, SWIG, 
and the Python API. Life would be much easier.

Ed Jones



From peter.sundling at telia.com  Fri Aug 24 07:37:08 2001
From: peter.sundling at telia.com (Peter Sundling)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:37:08 GMT
Subject: I dont get this!
References: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>
Message-ID: <3B863BF0.4AB10AD3@telia.com>

Problem solved.
I got some answers from you and most of you wrote that the code snippet
worked
for you, but it didn't for me.

Erik Max Francis told me that the problem could be elsewhere in the
code. 
Emile van Sebille gave me the idea that maybe one or more of the
variables could be strings. And there was the problem.
I loaded some data for the low[] and high[] variable from a file and
forgot
to convert the strings to integers. I feel like the dumbest programmer
in the world.

Thank you all for your help.

Regards,
Peter Sundling


From timd at macquarie.com.au  Mon Aug  6 19:03:58 2001
From: timd at macquarie.com.au (Timothy Docker)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 09:03:58 +1000
Subject: Python & wxGTK & wxPython on Solaris 2.6
References: <WAya7.1444$xY6.172862@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m4ir8uobxk1.fsf@macquarie.com.au>


> I'm a relative newbie to Unix/Linux, so please forgive me if I'm asking a
> really obvious question. I'm tying to install Python, wxGTK and wxPython on
> my Sun Ultra 5 running Solaris 2.6 at work.

I have this setup working (although with python 2.0).

> Here's what I've got installed so far:
> 
> gcc     2.95.3   -   from www.sunfreeware.com
> gnu make         -  from www.sunfreeware.com
> gtk+   1.2.10    -  from www.sunfreeware.com
> glib     1.2.10    -  from www.sunfreeware.com
> Python-2.1.1    -  from www.python.org
> 
> I've got this set up in /usr/local/bin   etc., etc.
> 
> Now I've downloaded wxGTK version 2.3.1 and have tried to build/install it
> prior to installing wxPython. The problem I'm having is this; when I run
> ./configure --with-gtk for wxGTK it runs for quite awhile checking things
> out, but then exits with a
> 
> setup.h not changed
> config.status: test: argument expected

The problem here is that the autoconf setup for wxGTK expects bash,
not standard sh. After that error was produced, I ran the
config.status script manually (with "bash config.status"), and then
continued with the installation stuff.

Tim


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  9 08:08:44 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 14:08:44 +0200
Subject: Sockets question
References: <mailman.997349655.23903.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4g0b1wi43.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"frank booth" <killingjoke at mail.com> writes:

> I'm sending something through a TCP socket, then closing it, then my
> python script exits.

> For some reason, from time to time (and not on all machines) the
> remote end doesn't always get the data.

The system won't wait indefinitely to transmit all data.

> Maybe when the script exits the connection dies at once? Is there a
> simple solution that will not involve waiting? (its used in a
> high-load system so I should free the socket and leave the process
> as quickly as possible. It is also impossible to change the remote
> program).

I would really recommend to set the SO_LINGER option on the socket. In
that case, close will wait until the connection has been shut down (or
until the linger interval is reached).

Regards,
Martin


From dwig at advancedmp.net  Mon Aug 27 19:33:05 2001
From: dwig at advancedmp.net (Don Dwiggins)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 16:33:05 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
In-Reply-To: "Jesse F. W"'s message of "Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700"
References: <3B863FAB.20487.80B378F@localhost>
Message-ID: <uwv3p6pu6.fsf@advancedmp.net>

Jesse W writes:
> Dear Python-list-iners,
> 	I have another Testing related question.  How are unit tests done 
> when the units to be tested get lots of information from nested 
> objects, e.g. (in a method of a class to be tested):
> if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop':
> how would this be tested?

The (overly) simple answer here is, "don't do that" (the code, not the
testing).  In the terms of Fowler's "Refactoring" book, it's a code smell.

For a better understanding of the reasons for avoiding this kind of object
structure navigation, see the "Law of Demeter" section in Brad Appleton's
"Introducing Demeter and its Laws" at
http://www.enteract.com/~bradapp/docs/demeter-intro.html

Also look at the discussion of this law/principle/guideline at
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?LawOfDemeter.  About 2/3 down, you'll find
"Demeter and Unit Tests", which addresses your example.

Don't expect your reading to result in a simple "always do it this way"
algorithm.  You're getting into some serious object design issues, like
factoring responsibilities among objects, and defining object contracts.

-- 
Don Dwiggins                    "Solvitur Ambulando"
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net




From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  1 16:51:38 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:51:38 -0400
Subject: Control of flow
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0107311355450.2321-100000@cb921.local>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENKLCAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Campbell]
> I use python to write telephony apps, and I find that a 'goto' is often
> a nice tool (stop going 'aargh', its properly "useful" sometimes =).

Draw a diagram using boxes showing the states of your dialog.  Draw arrows
between boxes, labelled with the conditions under which you can move from
one state to another ("user said 'yes'"; "user pushed '#'"; "error"; "this
specific error"; etc).  Picture the "quick reference" card that comes with
most fancy phone systems -- that's the idea.  Design a data structure using
a dict to map a state to a pair (or class instance) containing:

1. A function implementing the state's logic, returning "a condition"
   (corresponding to the labels on your arrows).

2. A dict of (condition, new_state) pairs (these are the labelled edges
   on hand diagram).

Then write incredibly simple and uniform code to walk the data structure in
a loop.  Then initialize the main dict.  You're done <wink>.  But I'm not
kidding:  if you had gotos, you'd get hopelessly lost as soon as the dialogs
you're working with now get more complicated.  You can *make* this very
pleasant indeed, but not with masses of twisted control-flow logic.  Highly
irregular problems are much better handled via dead-uniform simple code
marching over a lumpy data structure.

believe-me-now-or-believe-me-later<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de  Sun Aug 19 14:28:23 2001
From: Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 18:28:23 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>

Hello Alex!

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:13:26 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  "Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
>  news:3b7de709.3497459 at wa.news.verio.net...
>      ...
>>>    y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()

>>> How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite

>  [which has been shown to be false, btw]

>> Considering your proposed example, can you state with assurance
>> exactly what order things are done, including side effects?

>  Sure -- Python guarantees left-to-right behavior of this statement.
>  First wower is called, then y.a is assigned, then b,c,d, then x.e, in this
>  order.  But of course it wouldn't be wise to rely on this!-)

Hmm, without having true symbol-expressions (lvals speaken in C-ish) it
makes no difference which of the different symbols is bound physically first
to a value because there can't be any side effect.

Is there a possibility in Python to return a symbol? In other words: is it
possible to write:

a() = 5

if the function a() returns a symbol like in Lisp:

(defun a() 'x)
(set (a) 5) ; x is now bound to 5

In this case it would make a difference.





Bernd


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Thu Aug 16 18:56:10 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:56:10 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org> <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com> <5396362c.0108161256.7d3b7380@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <38jonto7gn9huhh0icqcovg6lo5e4ogoar@4ax.com>

>> >I thought we all agreed and accepted that is not how things are 
>> >supposed to work for Python. And that its quite for the good.
>> 
>> I don't get what you're trying to say. 
>
>I think what he's saying is that your use of the plural (see above)
>implies a BOFL (benevolent oligarchy for life), rather than a BDFL.  A
>BOFL for life would be deplorable.

Perhaps, however this has little to do with what I'm talking about; while
I indeed referred to an aggregate, I was referring to the _individuals_
of that aggregate, each of which owes no obligation whatsoever to
fulfilling other people's sense of entitlement. And why should they?
They are open source developers generously donating their own
precious personal time. They should be working on what they regard
as fun, interesting, and personally rewarding. Satisfying the childish
whims of individuals who seriously mistread with the belief that they
can "depose" the core of an open-sourced project (is that delusional
or what?) should rightly be the least of their worries.

C//



From edcjones at erols.com  Fri Aug 31 01:08:48 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:08:48 -0400
Subject: Function to merge sorted lists
References: <mailman.999222226.8015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8F1BE0.6060108@erols.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Edward C. Jones wrote:
> 
> 
>>Has anyone written in C a merge function for sorted Python sequences? 

> Sounds interesting, but... and don't take this the wrong way... I can barely
> understand what you're trying to say. An example might help.

Here is a Python program that does the same thing:

def merge(seq1, seq2):
     n1 = len(seq1)
     n2 = len(seq2)
     i = j = 0
     merged = []
     while i < n1 and j < n2:
         if seq1[i] < seq2[j]:
	        merged.append(seq1[i])
	    i += 1
	else:
	    merged.append(seq2[j])
	    j += 1
     if i == n1:
         tail1 = []
         tail2 = seq2[j:]
	else:
	    tail2 = []
         tail1 = seq1[i:]
     return merged, tail1, tail2



From sam at ddmweb.com  Wed Aug  8 15:43:17 2001
From: sam at ddmweb.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:43:17 -0700
Subject: How to call java from python? 
Message-ID: <01080812484704.01013@frock.ddmweb.com>

Several people have noted Jython, which is Python running wholly within
Java. There is also The "Java-Python Extension", an effort to unite
"regular" Python (aka "CPython") with Java via a C enxtension to Python
and a Java Native Interface. See also:
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe>
and
<http://www.python9.org/p9-cdrom/10/index.htm>



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Aug 20 15:54:47 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 19:54:47 GMT
Subject: Variables from variables
References: <2gppnt4vfvt570kivgsgc99e5fca7ckm3b@4ax.com> <3B7D5C37.DE447BDA@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o2qo7.3rd.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:02:31 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> pisze:

>>>> class Record:
> ...     def __init__(self, fielddict):
> ...         for name, val in fielddict:
> ...             setattr(self, name, val)

Or:           self.__dict__.update(fielddict)
(untested and I think it appeared in some 2.x version).

Or even:  def __init__(self, **fielddict):
and then: r = Record(one = '1', two = '2', three = '3')

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Mon Aug 27 13:46:40 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:46:40 -0700
Subject: Tkinter window displaying the time?
References: <9m698a$t90$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <jtofp5nsuf.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <gSOh7.124673$rV6.6698536@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B8A877F.3A599F9A@ccvcorp.com>

Gary Richardson wrote:

> Is is possible to do this in a thread? I.e.:
>
> from Tkinter import *
> from time import *
> import thread
>
> def titleTime():
>     now = strftime("GMT: %I:%M:%S %p", localtime(time()))
>     #root.title(now)
>     root.after(1000, titleTime)
>
> root=Tk()
> root.iconify()
> thread.start_new(titleTime, ())
> root.mainloop()
>
> When I uncomment the line "root.title(now)" this code hangs up and I have to
> exit the IDE to recover. I'm using PythonWin, ActivePython build 2.1.211.

When writing multithreaded apps under a GUI, it is generally a bad idea to try
to have multiple threads interacting with the GUI objects.  The proper
architecture for multithreaded GUIs is to have one thread handle *all* of the
GUI activity, and delegate calculations or other long processes to worker
threads.  In this case, you're really not gaining anything by putting your timer
function in a separate thread--what you're trying to accomplish, is already
being done by calling after(), so threading it is redundant.  If you *were*
going to change some UI feature based on some involved calculation, that you
wanted to move to a separate thread, then you could use the worker thread to
update a shared variable, and have the UI thread poll that variable (using
after() or such) and update the feature when the variable changes.
Alternatively, you could use a Queue to allow worker threads to pass
commands/data to the UI thread (this is actually just a more detailed, robust
version of the previous--the queue is the "shared variable").

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Aug 22 01:29:24 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:29:24 +0200
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing if statements...) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:53:18 CDT."
             <15234.62574.38494.765173@beluga.mojam.com> 
Message-ID: <m15ZQZw-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) wrote:

> Also, note that you can have your cake and eat it too, because you can (and
> many modules do) raise an exception and annotate it with messages or error
> codes:
> 
>     try:
>         somemodule.func(p1, p2, p3)
>     except somemodule.Error, (code, msg):
>         if code == 200:
>             # an expected condition, warn and move on
>             print msg
>         else:
>             # something we can't recover from - reraise the exception
>             raise

I'd rather use:

    try:
        somemodule.func(p1, p2, p3)
    except somemodule.Error_foo, msg :
        print msg
        ...
    except somemodule.Error_bar, msg :
        ...
    ### no need for raise anymore

Much clearer and easier to use. 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sat Aug  4 04:39:47 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:39:47 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "03 Aug 2001 13:30:44 EDT."
             <87zo9hvynv.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org> 
Message-ID: <m15SwyJ-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig) wrote:

> An instance knows what it is, and a subclass knows who it
> inherits from, but the reverse is not true.  For this reason I think
> the correct way to spell these should be something like
> 
> instance.isinstanceof(class)
> class.issubclassof(metaclass)

Almost. Try this:

instance.isinstanceof(Class)
Class.issubclassof(Class)
Class.isinstanceof(metaclass)

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 21:52:38 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:52:38 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <Qukb7.94207$Xr6.461571@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <mailman.997055292.340.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9f2umt87k1s5pcd098b9ha9aqsit7mjfo1@4ax.com>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:47:50 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
wrote:

>[Stephen Horne]
>>> I'd like to point out that the large number of 'viruses' I've been
>>> e-mailed over the last couple of weeks won't affect my viewpoint. I
>>> thought this was an innocent case of other people being infected at
>>> first, but it's rather strange that when I reply to these e-mails to
>>> warn people that their machines have been infected the addresses
>>> mysteriously don't exist and the messages consistently bounce.
>
>[Neil Hodgson]
>>     This is not restricted to you. Large numbers of people have been
>> receiving these probably due to the Sircam worm/virus. I've received
>> some and I'm for the division change.
>
>Ah, *that's* what this is about -- "I send you this file in order to have
>your advice", etc.  webmaster at python.org has gotten hundreds of these,
>possibly thousands.  We thought they came from Stephen <wink>.  My primary
>ISP filters them out, so I've only seen about 50 of them; in *most* cases,
>the return address is in fact bogus, although I haven't seen that aspect
>confirmed in the tech reports.

I am not talking about Sircam. When I say I read a little Spanish,
that means enough (with the aid of a Spanish dictionary) to know what
is being said. The Spanish message I was referring to was not a virus,
and was described in a separate paragraph from the one where I
complained about viruses.

As my interpretation of the bogus return addresses in the viruses I've
recieved was incorrect, I appologise for that.

The message I recieved in Spanish, however, was quite blatantly aimed
at me personally and from someone on this list who has an interest in
this topic. Unless, of course, Sircam has a specific interest in
Python division?

Add on the fact that one copy of Sircam I recieved was in Spanish,
with a bogus email address, and recieved on the same day, and yes, I
was wrong to make the accusation - sorry - but I think you'll
understand why I made that mistake.



From alf at pisces.logilab.fr  Wed Aug  8 11:40:53 2001
From: alf at pisces.logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:40:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
References: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com> <3b715b93.7684560@news.mailops.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2nc6.u95.alf@pisces.logilab.fr>

On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:33:47 GMT, chajadan <me at charliedaniels.com-1.net> wrote:
>say for example I change a module and want to reload it, but imported
>it thus:
>
>from my_module import *
>
>How do I reload the * from my_module?

import my_module
reload(mymodule)
from my_module import *

(the last step may not be required, I've never tested without it)

Alexandre Fayolle
-- 
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 07:21:20 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:21:20 +0200
Subject: Dial-Up w/ Python on Win32:
References: <85H97.2823$kg.194231@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9k8ono09sf@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Xione Wrent" <xione at bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:85H97.2823$kg.194231 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> Is there any way to launch a .DUN file (Dial-Up Networking) on a Windows
box
> using Python?

If you install the win32all extensions (or ActivePython that
comes with them), win32api.ShellExecute should work (if your
associations to extension .DUN are set up correctly, i.e.,
if
    start foo.dun
works as you desire from a command-prompt).


Alex





From hoetzel at fim.informatik.uni-mannheim.de  Wed Aug 22 07:33:49 2001
From: hoetzel at fim.informatik.uni-mannheim.de (Juergen Hoetzel)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:33:49 +0200
Subject: support for ualarm(3) in module signal
Message-ID: <lyae0snxb6.fsf@fim.informatik.uni-mannheim.de>

Hi,

I?m developing a prototype in python on openbsd and linux:
The "ualarm" call is available on every unix system  i know, but there
is no support for this call in the signal module. Only "alarm" is 
available. 

I could write my own python extension in C/SWIG. 


Any suggestions?

Juergen  


From digitig at cix.co.uk  Sat Aug  4 19:13:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:13 +0100 (BST)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <memo.20010805001356.60291L@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <3B6A6B97.2060306 at herts.ac.uk>, m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark 
Robinson) wrote:

> I guess it is perhaps not as clear, but I am not aware of it being a
> common cause of errors in C++ or java (doesn't mean it isn't, just that
> I am not aware of them). I also miss +=, *=, %=, /=, would it really 
> make the code that much harder to read/maintain?

It certainly is /a/ source of bugs in C++, and I would expect in Java too. 
One infamous one is constructs of the form min(a++, b++).

If min is a function and a and b are distinct, each is incremented once 
and the smaller is returned -- probably what is expected.

If min is a function and b is an alias for a then it is incremented twice 
and returned. Probably a bug.

If min is a preprocessor macro, it probably expands to something like
(a++)<(b++)?(a++):(b++); now if a and b are distinct both are incremented, 
the lesser is returned and is then incremented again -- the value returned 
is probably now the value of neither a /nor/ b. If that is intended 
behaviour then I hope I never have to maintain your code!

If min is a preprocessor macro and b is an alias for a then it is 
incremented twice, returned, then incremented again. Sheesh!

In short, side effects are a Bad Thing!


From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Aug  7 11:02:28 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:02:28 +0200
Subject: pydoc&readline Re: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
In-Reply-To: <9kooo1$5dk$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051053000.2450-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.997025289.3102.python-list@python.org> <9kooo1$5dk$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <20010807170228.W626@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:59:45PM +0200, Carel Fellinger wrote:
> Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote:

> > Why/how do you want pydoc to support readline ? Isn't it enough that the
> > interpreter supports readline ?

> Maybe because some make a lot of typos, so like to correct instead of
> retype the whole bunch?

> And it's not enough that the interpreter supports it:

>    >>> help()       <<< here I'm a happy camper
>    help>            <<< and here I'm lost without my readline support:(

Aha. So 'help' has its own interactive mode ? How cute...

Well, it should be able to provide readline support, really, and it would be
way cool if it did, because we seriously lack documentation and examples on
how to do that :-)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Fri Aug 17 03:33:46 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:33:46 +1000
Subject: zlibmodule threadsafety changes: RFC
In-Reply-To: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
References: <9lifo8$cdv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <01081717334601.02447@ike>

On Friday 17 August 2001 17:05, Titus Brown wrote:
> 	2) the input strings to the de/compress functions can be modified
> 	   outside of the zlibmodule while the zlibmodule functions are
> 	   working on them.

I naively ask whether this is actually true... aren't python strings 
immutable? Unless someone plays with them under the covers in C, that is (in 
which case they're being very naughty and deserve what they get).


     Richard



From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 17 23:52:31 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 03:52:31 GMT
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
References: <mailman.997923024.24854.python-list@python.org> <tnmkhd51goof0b@xo.supernews.co.uk> <eppstein-D1ABF4.22032515082001@news.service.uci.edu> <3B7C0AA1.73B31C6F@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3b7de599.3129369@wa.news.verio.net>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:02:10 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:

>David Eppstein wrote:
>
>> In article <tnmkhd51goof0b at xo.supernews.co.uk>,
>>  "Julius Welby" <jwelby at waitrose.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This zillion special
>> > > cases of 404-ish pages is something I use as an example in my
>> > > forthcoming book _Text Processing in Python_ (a few more months until
>> > > done).  Here's the code I present as an attempt at recognizing what only
>> > > humans can:
>>
>> Humans can't usually see the http response line with the actual 404 number
>> in it in place of the 200 indicating an ok page, but machines can -- why
>> don't you use that?
>
>Among other things, someone already pointed out that certain "helpful"
>webservers will not only generate pretty error pages, but will return those
>pages with a 200 number instead of a 404 number.  So, while checking the code is
>a good idea, it is not sufficient.
>
Probably one reason the "helpful" webservers put 200 status in their error pages
is to get past certain "helpful" browsers that see a 404 and ignore the immediately
following (actually possibly helpful) html in favor of their own glitzy boilerplate
display.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 19:53:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:53:06 -0400
Subject: ftplib question
References: <9ks6ai$bq4$1@nntp1-cm.news.eni.net> <m3wv4edvk4.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ffkc7.22324$5j7.2050894@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Andrew Markebo" <flognat at flognat.myip.org> wrote in message
news:m3wv4edvk4.fsf at localhost.localdomain...
>
> Q1: Check the docs, and you might find cwd useful..
>
> Q2: How to schedule it in python.. well
>
> while 1:
>         update()
>         time.sleep(24*60*60)
>
> But I think finding a scheduler in the os you have and launch the
> python-script from there...
>
>
> | Question#1 : I'm not sure how i can change to the directory i want to
upload
> | the files to. Any help would be appreciated.
> | Question#2 : does anyone know of a python module that allows me to
schedule
> | tasks?

There is also the standard sched module, which can handle this kindof thing
quite nicely if you cankeep a Python process running to do the work.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/





From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Thu Aug 16 19:43:27 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 23:43:27 GMT
Subject: embedded AND extended C code
References: <3b7b4654$0$330$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <Xns90FF4EB46D998gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.194>
Message-ID: <3b7c5a9f$0$321$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Gordon McMillan <gmcm at hypernet.com> wrote:
> Know that horrid grinding noise when you try to start a car that's already 
> running? That's what you've got here.
>
> You can embed and extend from the same C program, but you have to embed 
> first and extend later. See mcmillan-inc.com/embed2.html for a simplistic 
> example.

Thanks for the example. I have it running now, and I am starting to 
appriciate the amazingly bad situations this could get me into :)

Neil

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Fri Aug 31 05:12:26 2001
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:12:26 +0200
Subject: two little syntax questions
References: <MPG.15f85254d2e52b09989684@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.15f9736619f5267d989687@news.easynews.net>

Very helpulf answers. Thank you! 
I think I have to take out the books again ;-)

Bye
Marcus


From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Wed Aug 15 17:54:42 2001
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 14:54:42 -0700
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
References: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com> <mailman.997747222.2714.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3zo91vvj1.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> writes:

> On Tuesday 14 August 2001 10:23, root wrote:
> > Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
> > per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
> > I've run into a problem during installation.
> 
> Marvellous idea :)
> 
> 
> > I cannot, however, run Python 2.1.1 using the 'python' terminal command
> > and there is no Python man page installed.  Typing 'python' at the
> > command prompt brings up the 1.5.2 interpreter.  I can run the 2.1.1
> > interpreter by typing the path of the toplevel Python directory and then
> > /python (e.g. /home/root/Python-2.1.1/python) but I don't want to have
> > to do this every time I start the interpreter and I would also like to
> > have the man page installed.
> 
> By default, python will be installed to /usr/local/bin. Your system will have 
> python 1.5.2 installed in /usr/bin. That binary will be found first when you 
> type "python" at the command line. To force using python 2.1.1, run 
> "/usr/local/bin/python".
> 
> Or, do the following (as root):
> 
>  cp /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/python1.5
>  cd /home/root/Python-2.1.1/
>  make distclean
>  ./configure --prefix=/usr
>  make install
> 

An alternative, allowing you to run several different verisons of
python:

as root edit a file "/usr/local/bin/py21":
#---edit------------
export PYTHONHOME=/usr/local
export PYTHONPATH=${PYTHONHOME}/lib/python2.1:${PYTHONHOME}/lib/python2.1/site-apckages
${PYTHONHOME}/bin/python2.1 $@
#---end edit-----------
and do
   chmod +755 py21

Then you can run python 2.1 stuff with "py21" and python 1.5.2 with
"python".  This may be important if some system scripts depend on one
version or the other.


> the --prefix=/usr tells the install to place python in /usr/bin (and the 
> library files will go in /usr/lib/python2.1). Note, you'll want to remove the 
> "other" python2.1 installation too (/usr/local/bin/python and 
> /usr/local/lib/python2.1). The first command above just keeps the old python 
> around just in case you need it in the future.
> 
> Then you will be able to run "python" at the command prompt and get 2.1.1 :)
> 
> 
>    Richard
> 

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 11:23:42 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:23:42 -0500
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
In-Reply-To: <Xns910EAA962DA3FPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
        <9mo1p3$3buv1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
        <Xns910EAA962DA3FPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <15247.44030.695433.678710@beluga.mojam.com>

 
    Emile> But watch out for negative numbers:
    >>> print locale.format('%.3f',-345.6789,1)
    -,345.679

This might cure that woe:

    n = -345.6789
    sign = (n < 0.0) and "-" or ""
    print "%s%s" % (sign, locale.format('%.3f',abs(n),1))

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From fred at arakane.com  Mon Aug 20 14:57:45 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:57:45 GMT
Subject: using floats/ints in print and write
References: <9lrm06$ausj5$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <J4dg7.57771$MC1.19695776@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

"Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:9lrm06$ausj5$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de...
> Hi,
>   does'nt python 2.2 allow me to use float/int variables in a string
> context. That is I can't write:
>
> print a + 'hello'
>
> where a is float or int. Right now I'm using fpformat.fix() to get a
string
> value. Is there any other way?

Try these, and take the one you prefer:

print a, 'hello'

print '%s %s' % (a, 'hello')

print '%i %s' % (a, 'hello')

print `a` + 'hello'

print str( a) + 'hello'

....





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Sun Aug 12 08:59:46 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:59:46 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:35:16 GMT."
             <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> 
Message-ID: <m15VuqI-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:
> 
> > Am I correct in understanding from this thread that there is an intent to
> > remove the ability to assign an instance's __class__ attribute?
> 
> Yes, I'd like to remove this.  See my previous post in this thread for
> more of an explanation of the problem.  But I haven't decided yet!
> This thread will help me figure out how big of a deal it will be.
> 
> Also note that nothing will change (yet) for classic classes -- in
> 2.2, classic classes will use a different metaclass from "new-style"
> classes, and the classic metaclass will provide the same semantics
> for classes and instance as before.  The class statement creates a
> classic class by default -- unless you explicitly subclass from a
> built-in type or a new-style class.

Would it be possible to possible to write a meta-class allowing the
dynamic change of __class__? And if so, how difficult would that be?

> > One
> > of the eye-popping cool features of Python is the ability to change code
> > and have existing instances update to use the new methods automatically.
> 
> You will still be able to modify *classes* dynamically -- although you
> have to declare this option by putting __dynamic__ = 1 in your class
> statement.

I'd like to support the proposal of Glyph and Alex to make 0 the
default for `__dynamic__`. IMHO, optimization should be restricted to
those few modules where it is really necessary.

Dynamicity is one of the really strong points of Python -- eye popping
as Glyph just called it.

> > I don't know about others who use this feature, but the way I use it I
> > could afford to wait 0.5 seconds for each __class__ assignment and not be
> > too upset about it.  Losing this ability entirely, however, would remove a
> > significant feature from Twisted when used with a later python version.  
> > I implore you not to remove it.
> 
> Understood.  Nevertheless, all evidence suggests that Twisted is not
> typical Python code. :-)

What is typical? I'd assume that a tiny percentage of Python code uses
the really dynamic features. OTOH, this tiny percentage might itself
be used by a lot of other code. At least in my applications some
modules do make use of some eye-popping features and they tend to be
used all over the place.

> I guess I have a bit of a hidden agenda: Python is more dynamic than
> the language I *wanted* to design.  Some of the dynamicism was simply
> a implementation trick.  Some of the dynamicism is getting in the way
> of optimizing code, because the optimizer can never prove that certain
> variables won't be changed.  So I'm trying to look for ways that pin
> down things a bit more.  I'm making assumptions about how "typical"
> Python code uses the dynamic features, and I'm slowly trying to
> introduce restrictions in the language that make the optimizer's life
> easier without affecting "typical" code.

Please be careful in this crusade... The language you *wanted* to design
might have been not quite as
excellent/wonderful/<insert-your-favorite-exclamation-of-insane-
greatness-here> as the one you came up instead :-) 

I wouldn't mind if I had to ask for some dynamic features more
explicitly than now but I'd really be hard hit if they went away
entirely. I'd love to get better performance but not at the price of
loosing all this dynamicism. I if wanted to use a non-dynamic language
I'd know way too many candidates vying to make my life unhappy <0.1
wink>

> For example, we're looking into optimizing access to builtins.  For
> this, we need to assume that the __builtin__ module is immutable; in
> addition, if a module doesn't have a global 'len', for example, we
> have to assume that such a global won't be inserted into the module
> dynamically.  I'm only aware of a very small number of applications
> that violate this constraint; I'd rather provide a separate explicit
> mechanism to override built-in functions so that the optimizer can be
> aware of a potential change and avoid it.

Separate explicit mechanisms would be much better than just dropping
dynamicism. In fact, despite the need for changing working code
<sigh>, making an external change of a module explicit would probably
be a good thing.

Maybe module objects could even grow `get-set` magic in the process
<duck>. 

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sat Aug 25 17:25:20 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:25:20 GMT
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
References: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9m8uc6$jpj$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4JUh7.174363$g_3.29796845@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Just out of curiousity:
you said:
> In fact, at the last VB shop where I worked, use
> of data-aware controls was forbidden: we had to fill the grids
> ourselves anyway.

I use the DataGrid with Delphi 5 (I got into Delphi last year after doing
work in VB) and it does save lots of time.  Although at times I do my own
data grid.  But why was it forbidden where you work?
I can not make up my mind whether Tkinter should come with a ready datagrid
that binds to a dataset.  The dataset can be from
DatabaseQueryCursor.fetchone(), fetchmany() or fetchall().  On the other
hand, rolling our own datagrid (as I did, and as Joseph demonstrated) is
more dynamic.  And allows more freedom.  Maybe a DataGrid is for these lazy
moments when you need to demo something very fast.  I can see a problem with
a Tkinter DataGrid when it comes to selecting a particular row or pointing
to a particular row.  Here we will have integration issues between the
DataGrid and the Python DB API.  too close for comfort come to think about
it.  And maybe leaving it to the programmer to make their own DataGrid is
much better after all.
Maan

"Boudewijn Rempt" <boud at rempt.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:9m8uc6$jpj$1 at news1.xs4all.nl...
> Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> > Unless I am missing something, I have looked and I Tkinter does not seem
to
> > have a DataGrid to receive the rows of a query (a dataset) and display
them
> > or to bind it into a dataset.  There is the Python DB API after all.  So
I
> > believe the issue of Datasets should be standardized across the
different
> > database packages.
> > Now, I believe I have an idea on how to build a class and use it in
Python
> > that can do exactly this.
> > But does Tkinter have a DataGrid?  If not, are there any other GUI
Python
> > packages that come with a DataGrid?
>
> Not if you mean a ready-made data-aware grid control like Visual Basic
> has. You'll have to roll your own. One problem is that Tkinter, to the
> best of my knowledge doesn't have a grid control at all. I know that
> both wxPython and PyQt have a good grid control, and filling a table
> yourself from the results of a query is easy enough, and gives you a
> lot of flexibility. In fact, at the last VB shop where I worked, use
> of data-aware controls was forbidden: we had to fill the grids
> ourselves anyway.
>
> --
>
> Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 03:30:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:30:25 +0200
Subject: Definition statement
References: <20010817030426.14357.00003436@mb-mi.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9lihbu0snp@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Patio87" <patio87 at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010817030426.14357.00003436 at mb-mi.aol.com...
> Im am learning python right know and I have come to a chapter called
functions
> and procedures. It goes into detail about the "def" function. I canoont
seem to

def is not a function, but, as you say in the subject, a statement.  It
*defines*
a function.

> understand what it does. can someone please tell me what it means. If it
is any

When the interpreter executes the statement 'def', it builds a function
object
from the parameters of the def, and binds it to the name that is the first
parameter to the statement 'def'.  Later, other parts of your code may use
the call operation to execute the code of that function object.

Consider a simple example:

def xx(): print 'yy'

The Python compiler will turn this into the bytecode instructions for:
    xx = make a new function with: name='xx', 0 arguments, and a suitable
code-object
the 'suitable code object' being a constant (generated by the compiler) with
the bytecode instructions for "print the constant string 'yy' then a newline
and return None".


Alex





From trong-anh.tran at wanadoo.fr  Thu Aug  9 03:58:29 2001
From: trong-anh.tran at wanadoo.fr (trong anh tran)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:58:29 +0200
Subject: How do i use ssh in pyhton.
Message-ID: <9ktfa3$nuf$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hi,
Thank a lot for yours anwers.
I want to make a conncetion ssh to a server but i don't know how to do.
I make first a socket connection (port 22) and then encrypt the data? (I'm a
beginner in Python)
Thank you.




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:23:45 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:23:45 +0200
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
References: <mailman.997297633.915.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ktkqv01u9h@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997297633.915.python-list at python.org...
> On 7 Aug 2001, Eugene Morozov wrote:
> > I'm playing with Python, COM and Word and I'm very impressed. It's a
> > shame that no such thing exist under Unix.
>
>    Especilly it is shame there is no Word under UNIX.

There many excellent programs that reproduce Word (although
I think they can't be CALLED Word for trademark reasons:-),
such as the word processors in StarOffice and OpenOffice
and many others.  It's surely not a shame that their name
can't reproduce a MS trademark:-) -- not a big problem!

It IS more of a shame that there's no standard way to script
programs -- no standardized Component Object Model, but
rather "fragments of componentization" scattered here and
there (bonobo, XPCOM, ...?).  Under Win32, if you can talk
COM well, there are few relevant limits to what you can
script/automate/control/etc.  No such thing under Unix:-(.


Alex





From blong at fiction.net  Thu Aug 30 00:30:51 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:30:51 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829151706.A27274@pulp> <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010829213051.A27754@pulp>

On 08/29/01 Skip Montanaro uttered the following other thing:
> 
>     >> Sounds like something's fishy in your os module.
>     ...
>     Brandon> No, the module is unmodified and does contain the
>     Brandon> AttributeError clause... but for some reason, it doesn't match
>     Brandon> the AttributeError exception that is thrown.  If I replace it
>     Brandon> with just except: to catch all exceptions, it passes until
>     Brandon> further down where something else in os.py expects an
>     Brandon> exception.
> 
> This sounds very odd.  If you print out sys.exc_info() inside the except:
> clause what do you see as an error?  Is there anything unusual about your
> install?  Does "make test" from your build directory run pretty cleanly?

The first time through (when it doesn't fail):
(<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80c807c>,
<exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x8151dc4>, <traceback object at
0x81506e0>)

The second time through:
(<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x81635e4>,
<exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x8178f04>, <traceback object at
0x80d01c0>)

The system is Redhat 6.1, the only argument to configure was to change
the installation prefix.  'make test' passed.

The culprit appears to be the following code in MySQLdb/_mysql.c:
        if (!(emod = PyImport_ImportModule("_mysql_exceptions")))
                goto error;
        if (!(edict = PyModule_GetDict(emod))) goto error;
        if (!(_mysql_MySQLError =
              _mysql_NewException(dict, edict, "MySQLError")))
                goto error;
        /* continues through all the other exceptions defined in _mysql_exceptions.py */

Where _mysql_NewException is defined as:
static PyObject *
_mysql_NewException(
        PyObject *dict,
        PyObject *edict,
        char *name)
{
        PyObject *e;

        if (!(e = PyDict_GetItemString(edict, name)))
                return NULL;
        if (PyDict_SetItemString(dict, name, e)) return NULL;
        return e;
}

commenting out that entire code fragment in the init_mysql(), and the
test passes.  It seems really weird to be doing the above, but I don't
know what its actually violating.

Brandon
-- 
   "No man really knows about other human beings.  The best he can do is
      to suppose that they are like himself."
        -- John Steinbeck, "The Winter of Our Discontent"
                                        http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From sill at optonline.net  Fri Aug 24 07:56:24 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:56:24 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9ocg09.8fh.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:28:05 +0100, Dave Swegen <dswegen at allstor-sw.co.uk> wrote:
> First of all this is not intended as flame-baiting or trolling. I'm
> genuinly curious about this one weird feature.
> 
> I've recently started looking at python, as we are about to implement a
> whole new intranet, and it would seem that basically all web tools that
> are of interest (zope, mason etc) are either perl or python based. 
> 
> Now, I've done a bit of perl coding, and it does have some neat
> features. However, I feel that there are far too many cases where making
> hard-to-read code is too easy, or things feel tacked on (OOP, for
> instance). That is why I really like what I've seen of Python so far.
> 
> However, I (and others here at work) do have some real concerns about
> the indentation feature. Basically we are quite worried about subtle
> but nasty bugs creeping in. Take the following code for instance:
> 
> for i in [1234]:
> 	print i
> 	print "hello"
> 
> Perfectly fine, valid code. But one indentation step wrong, and you end
> up with perfectly fine, valid code that does something else, ie
> 
> for i in [1234]:
> 	print i
> print hello
> 
> I imagine that these sort of problems might not only appear due to
> incorrect coding, but also things such as broken mailers, applying
> patches from people using different indent levels etc
> 
> So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?
> 
> Any points of view much appreciated
> 
> Cheers
> 	Dave
> 

I had one such problem in about 2.5 years of coding, and I figured it out
in half an hour. I feel that the indentation feature does far more good
than harm for three reasons - 1. it's more readable 2. there's no bracing
style disagreements and 3. code executes the way it looks, so you can't
make an error like
while {
    expr
    expr
expr}
}

that conveys one thing through its indenting, but does another.

-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 12:50:04 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:50:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Writeing new files
In-Reply-To: <b5f84cf8.0108310808.78d4a8f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311247360.4373-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 31 Aug 2001, eber kain wrote:

> OK, as is it would not run, and returns an error
>
> no variable named Name in line 7

D'oh. Brain fart.

> if I change Name to name then it runs and prints this
>
> test
> Name
> 'Name'
>
> I dont doubt that the problem is with Create, but there is no easy way
> to get to it seeing how blender is just an exe with no external files.
>
> For now ill just use
>
> file = Open('name.btv',"w")
>
> and rename the file manually after its created

Okay, the next step is to do a dir() on name and find out what exactly the
object returned has for you to use.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Aug 27 09:37:13 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 08:37:13 -0500
Subject: python extension module / external linkage
Message-ID: <1ritf9zks6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

I am building a python extension module with boost::python and am
getting an error 'ImportError: ./Trade.so: undefined symbol: mtInit'
when I try to import the module in python.  mtInit is a C function
declared in a header with 'extern "C"' and defined in an object
library that I link against when I build the python extension module.
None of my python wrapper classes use 'mtInit' directly, but one of
the classes that I am wrapping does call it in its constructor.

When I build the shared library Trade.so to import into python, I
compile it with 

g++ -shared $(LIBPATHS) $(OBJS) -o Trade.so -lboost_python -lA -lB

libA.a and libB.a are both object libraries.  mtInit is defined in
libA.a.  A class defined in libB.a uses mtInit in the constructor, as
I mentioned above.

I think I am having some kind of problem with external linkage, but I
don't know how to go about solving it.  

In the .cpp file that I use to build libB.a I have tried 

  extern "C" int mtInit(void);
  extern int mtInit(void);    

and both without the 'void' and it always compiles fine but gives me
the same runtime error in python.  

If I build a static executable (not a python extension) and link
against libA.a and libB.a, I have no problems.  I am new to the game of
dynamically loaded shared object libraries.  Any suggestions will be
welcome.

Thanks,
John Hunter

gcc-2.95.2




From paul at boddie.net  Tue Aug 21 05:56:51 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:56:51 -0700
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de> <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108210156.45aeb35b@posting.google.com>

Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan) wrote in message news:<slrn9o2rak.2vt.Gareth.McCaughan at g.local>...
> 
> By the way, I have a hazy recollection that someone *did* port
> some, at least, of Tk to RISC OS. I don't know how easy it would
> be to make the Python port work nicely with it, and I don't
> now remember how complete the port was or who did it or anything
> useful like that.

I believe that Chris Stretch, in the earlier port of Python for RISC
OS, decided that Tk was too difficult to port, given certain
limitations of the RISC OS Desktop environment (no nested windows at
that time), so he invented a new toolkit (whose name eludes me, but it
started with T, I think) which was incompatible with Tk.

It might be interesting to review the Mac OS port of Tk to see whether
a RISC OS port is viable, given that Mac OS is possibly the closest
platform to RISC OS architecturally that Tk has been ported to. An
alternative solution would be to follow the anygui project
(http://anygui.sourceforge.net) and implement the proposed API using
calls to the underlying Desktop API.

Paul


From jschmitt at vmlabs.com  Fri Aug 10 16:11:47 2001
From: jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:11:47 -0700
Subject: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
Message-ID: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B6824@eden.vmlabs.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at home.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 12:59 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Python-2.2a1.exe: "Can't run 16-bit Windows program"
> 
[...]
> Else wait for
> 2.2a2 -- the 2.2a2 installer is a 32-bit program, and appears 
> to work much
> better on Win2K boxes with paranoid settings.

I am an admin on this machine.  I can't even log out right now because I've
got processes running that take hours to complete and I don't want to
interrupt them. :-(

[...]

> You don't need to do anything, although the file extensions 
> (.py etc) will
> get registered to use the most recent version of Python you installed.
> Nothing we can do about that -- that's just how Windows 
> works.  The 2.2a2
> installer will register file extensions on a per-user basis 
> (on Win2K -- not
> possible on other Windows flavors), though, provided you select the
> "Non-Admin install" radio button in its "Advanced Options" 
> dialog.  It also
> has an option not to register file extensions at all.  None 
> of that exists
> in the 2.2a1 (or any earlier) installer.

Is there a way of switching back and forth between 2.1 and 2.2?  Does that
involve running the unisntaller and then running the installer for the other
one?  Maybe I can just re-run the ActiveState installer when I want to
revert to 2.1 and then re-run the 2.2* installer when I want to try 2.2
again, eh?

Thanks!

John



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Aug 26 12:59:28 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:59:28 -0400
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
References: <283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e@posting.google.com> <5w9i7.134964$rV6.7269156@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <oT9i7.32602$54.1957141@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

'scuse my clumsy fingers ... that's Gadfly, of course.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:5w9i7.134964$rV6.7269156 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> You should look at Gadflt, but at present it causes warnings on recent
> Python distributions because it uses an outdated regular expression
package.
> Nobody's offered to rewrite it yet ... but it's a very good lightweight
pure
> Python SQL database.
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --
> http://www.holdenweb.com/
>
>
> "Kevin Dahlhausen" <kdahlhaus at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e at posting.google.com...
> > I'm getting ready to experiment with Webware.  I'd like to use a
> > simple database or somewhat efficient persistant store as I'll be
> > using the CGI-one shot version of webware and don't want to also have
> > to load a complete database into memory.  So, mysql, postgress, and
> > such are too heavy. I'll be lucky to find a way to run Webware on an
> > isp's site anyway.  Are there any alternative database libraries for
> > python out there?  SQL's ok, python objects to disk in some rational
> > way would work too, if I could load them without pulling every object
> > into memory first.  Thanks
>
>




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Aug 11 06:21:52 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 12:21:52 +0200
Subject: Installing .TGZ File I Got From Python.org....
References: <d0a9c74e.0108102115.47fa503d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j48zgqdhhb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

polopunk209 at hotmail.com (Josh) writes:

> I need help installing the .TGZ file that's distributed at Python.org.
> I have the base .EXE running, but I'm stumped for answers concerning
> what to do with this file. I have WinZip 8.0, and my OS is Win98 SE.

Can you please tell us what file exactly you got (exact URL please),
and what you *want* to do with it?

Otherwise, my recommendation would be to delete the file, you don't
need it...

> Also, where do I unzip the Debug.zip file? 

Again, I recommend to delete it, you don't need it. Just the main .exe
is enough.

Regards,
Martin


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 29 20:13:40 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:13:40 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <b5f84cf8.0108291544.5c00de16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mk0oo$2ln4g$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

You'll have to look into whatever Create is - that's what's returning the
extra 's.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"eber kain" <eberkain at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b5f84cf8.0108291544.5c00de16 at posting.google.com...
> Every time i do this.
>
> name = Create('Name')
> file = Open('%s.btv' % name, "w")
>
> it creates a file that looks like this
>
> 'Name'.btv
>
> Why, and how can i do away with the set of ' '



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 15:10:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:10:40 -0400
Subject: Finalization problems
In-Reply-To: <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENGLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Robin Becker]
> A colleague reports finalization problems with a particular extension
> running under 2.1.1 and Solaris. The problems don't occur with NT. he
> reports sigabort right after the cleanup __builtins__ and before the
> cleanup ints. Both Python-2.1.1 and the extension are built using gnu
> tools.
>
> The distinguishing feature is that the extension is used more than once
> in the cases when the abort occurs.
>
> Not having access to the corporate Solaris machine I can only ask what
> sort of things might cause this eg do I have to search for all known
> python variables looking to see if they are correctly ref counted etc?
>
> Are there any things I can try with the NT version?

Not enough info.  Does your colleague know how to use gdb?  If not, you're
in for a lot of blind guessing.  The top-level place to look is
Py_Finalize() in Python/pythonrun.c.  Cleaning builtins occurs near the end
of the call to PyImport_Cleanup(), and about a dozen other things happen
between then and the time ints are cleaned up (I assume you're deriving
sense of time from -v output, which doesn't normally *print* anything
between the builtin and int cleanups).

If this app is threaded, I'd suspect that before I'd suspect refcounts.
Solaris is more reluctant than NT to switch threads, so race bugs are more
likely to show up under one than the other.  We've had legit race bugs in
Python that were easy to provoke under Linux but seemingly impossible under
Windows, and vice versa.  For example, if the extension is mucking with
threads, and doing so incorrectly near shutdown time (like calling a Python
C API function when Py_IsInitialized() returns false), it's much more likely
to blow up under an OS reluctant to switch threads.




From chrishbarker at home.net  Fri Aug 31 16:45:28 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:45:28 -0700
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8FF768.825CE963@home.net>

I'm not sure why I am bothering ot help you, as you have been pretty
rude, but you got an interesting discussion going earlier (and a great
quote about VB from someone (sorry I forgot who---Alex Martelli?)

There are quite a few GUI toolkits for Python available, but for a
newbie like yourself, TK is probably the best option: only because it
comes with the standard distribution, and has a little more
documentation that the others.

jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:
> 
> This site about tkinter really sucks!
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-tkinter.htm

Actually , it is a very nice tutorial

> look what they say:
> # File: hello1.py
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> >>>>>> error!!!!!!!!! this filke does not exists it has to be _tkinter

There is nothing wrong with the tutorial, but there is something wrong
with your Python installation, TKinter is not installed correctly. The
fact that this is not obvious to you makes it clear that you have not
yet learned the fundementals of Python. As someone suggested to you
earlier, GUI programming is NOT the easiest thing to learn in Python,
and I've found that most GUI toolkit tutorial assume that you understand
quite a bit about how Python works alleady. When I set out to learn
wxWin, fairly early in my Python career, I was stumped until Iwent back
and learned about OO programming in Python. Once I did that, I could
easily understand the docs and examples.


So, what you need to do is:

1) Learn some more about Python itself, for NON-GUI things. Go through
the Python tutorial at:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html
or start with one of these:

http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/

http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

Ask your basic questions on:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

Once you have a grasp of Python the language, it is time to start
learning to use a GUI toolkit. Choose one (TKinter is a fine choice) and
go through it's tutorials. If 

"from TKinter import *" fails, you have an installation problem. Post a
note to the tutor list, or here, GIVING DETAILS ABOUT HOW YOU INSTALLED
PYTHON, and you will get help, Also, be polite. If you are frustrated,
remember that you have not given money (or anythoing else) to anyone
here, so they are under no oblicgation to help.

-Chris













-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From objectway at divalsim.it  Fri Aug 17 09:31:18 2001
From: objectway at divalsim.it (Nicola Musatti)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:31:18 +0200
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7D1CA6.288D6E10@divalsim.it>


Henrik Ekelund wrote:
> 
> We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
> C++.

Wow! May I ask you why?

> Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
> working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
> work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
> lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?

I have no experience with this kind of work, but a major pitfall seems
evident: Python and C++ have very different philosophies, so you should
be very careful not to write Python style C++ code.

By the way, this is a job I'd really like! Unfortunately I cannot
apply...

Cheers,
Nicola Musatti


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Aug 28 14:07:46 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:07:46 -0700
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B8BDDF2.C6DF7018@ccvcorp.com>


Rainer Deyke wrote:

> <gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> > c = '%.2f'%(float(a)/b)
>
> That's unreliable.  Use this instead:
>
> c = (a * 100) / b
> s = '%03d' % c
> file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
>

Unreliable how?

>>> l1 = [5, 13, 23, 30, 42, 86, 101, 153, 999, 123456]
>>> l2 = [2, 5, 23, 59]
>>> def foo(a, b):
...  return '%.2f' % (float(a)/b)
...
>>> def bar(a, b):
...  s = '%03d' % ( (a*100)/b )
...  return s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:]
...
>>> for b in l2:
...  for a in l1:
...   x, y = foo(a,b), bar(a,b)
...   full = repr(float(a)/b)
...   print '%10s %10s    %d  %s' % (x, y, (x==y), full)
...
      2.50       2.50    1  2.5
      6.50       6.50    1  6.5
     11.50      11.50    1  11.5
     15.00      15.00    1  15.0
     21.00      21.00    1  21.0
     43.00      43.00    1  43.0
     50.50      50.50    1  50.5
     76.50      76.50    1  76.5
    499.50     499.50    1  499.5
  61728.00   61728.00    1  61728.0
      1.00       1.00    1  1.0
      2.60       2.60    1  2.6000000000000001
      4.60       4.60    1  4.5999999999999996
      6.00       6.00    1  6.0
      8.40       8.40    1  8.4000000000000004
     17.20      17.20    1  17.199999999999999
     20.20      20.20    1  20.199999999999999
     30.60      30.60    1  30.600000000000001
    199.80     199.80    1  199.80000000000001
  24691.20   24691.20    1  24691.200000000001
      0.22       0.21    0  0.21739130434782608
      0.57       0.56    0  0.56521739130434778
      1.00       1.00    1  1.0
      1.30       1.30    1  1.3043478260869565
      1.83       1.82    0  1.826086956521739
      3.74       3.73    0  3.7391304347826089
      4.39       4.39    1  4.3913043478260869
      6.65       6.65    1  6.6521739130434785
     43.43      43.43    1  43.434782608695649
   5367.65    5367.65    1  5367.652173913043
      0.08       0.08    1  0.084745762711864403
      0.22       0.22    1  0.22033898305084745
      0.39       0.38    0  0.38983050847457629
      0.51       0.50    0  0.50847457627118642
      0.71       0.71    1  0.71186440677966101
      1.46       1.45    0  1.4576271186440677
      1.71       1.71    1  1.7118644067796611
      2.59       2.59    1  2.593220338983051
     16.93      16.93    1  16.932203389830509
   2092.47    2092.47    1  2092.4745762711864
>>>

The bar() version, your suggestion, appears to *usually* truncate, but in a few
cases rounds up.  The foo() version *always* rounds to nearest .01.  I would
consider the latter to be the more reliable (consistent) behavior.  (I was
surprised by this, actually--I expected bar() to always truncate, and was going
to simply point out that it was a matter of whether truncation or rounding was
preferred...)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sat Aug 25 17:12:24 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:12:24 GMT
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
References: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9m8uc6$jpj$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <3B87B147.A810DCC3@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <YwUh7.174338$g_3.29783656@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Thanks Joseph.  This is what I had in mind (or something along these lines)
by way of doing my own grid for a dataset.
Maan

"Joseph Andrew Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B87B147.A810DCC3 at earthlink.net...
> Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> >
> > Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> > > Unless I am missing something, I have looked and I Tkinter does not
seem to
> > > have a DataGrid to receive the rows of a query (a dataset) and display
them
> > > or to bind it into a dataset.  There is the Python DB API after all.
So I
> > > believe the issue of Datasets should be standardized across the
different
> > > database packages.
> > > Now, I believe I have an idea on how to build a class and use it in
Python
> > > that can do exactly this.
> > > But does Tkinter have a DataGrid?  If not, are there any other GUI
Python
> > > packages that come with a DataGrid?
> >
> > Not if you mean a ready-made data-aware grid control like Visual Basic
> > has. You'll have to roll your own. One problem is that Tkinter, to the
> > best of my knowledge doesn't have a grid control at all.
>
> True, but the grid layout manager makes it extremely easy
> to create one.
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> class SequenceGridException:
>     pass
>
> class SequenceGrid(Frame):
>
>     def __init__(self,parent,**kw):
>         Frame.__init__(self,parent,**kw)
>         self.fields = []
>         self.rows = 0
>         self.cols = 0
>
>     def setRows(self,rows):
>         self.rows = 0
>         self.cols = 0
>
>         for field in self.fields:
>             field.grid_forget()
>             field.destroy()
>         self.fields = []
>
>         for row in rows:
>             self.cols = 0
>             for item in row:
>                 txt = str(item)
>                 field = Text(self,height=1,width=len(txt))
>                 field.insert("1.0",txt)
>                 field.grid(row=self.rows,col=self.cols,sticky="nsew")
>                 self.fields.append(field)
>                 self.cols += 1
>             self.rows += 1
>
>     def getItem(self,row,col):
>         if row < 0 or col < 0 or row >= self.rows or col >= self.cols:
>             raise SequenceGridException
>         idx = row * self.cols + col
>         return self.fields[idx].get("1.0","end")
>
> # Test code:
> test = 0
> data =
> [["Hello","world",42],["I","love","Python!"],["Tkinter","rocks","the
> house!"]]
>
> def fill():
>     global test, data
>     try:
>         print "1,2 is %s"%sg.getItem(1,2)
>     except:
>         print "Oops, no data in grid 1,2"
>     sg.setRows(data)
>     data.append(["New","row",test])
>     test += 1
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     root = Tk()
>     sg = SequenceGrid(root,width=100,height=100)
>     sg.grid(sticky="nsew")
>     btn = Button(command=fill,text="Fill grid")
>     btn.grid()
>     root.mainloop()
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> > I know that
> > both wxPython and PyQt have a good grid control, and filling a table
> > yourself from the results of a query is easy enough, and gives you a
> > lot of flexibility. In fact, at the last VB shop where I worked, use
> > of data-aware controls was forbidden: we had to fill the grids
> > ourselves anyway.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org
>
> --
> # Joe Knapka
> # "You know how many remote castles there are along the
> #  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
> # Linux MM docs:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html




From gorny at hobbiton.org  Thu Aug 30 07:24:24 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:24:24 +0200
Subject: standard funcs in ext. module..
References: <Nbvi7.45249$Vs4.383777@zonnet-reader-1> <3B8B0B27.3080906@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <RA9j7.46960$Vs4.398582@zonnet-reader-1>

> These become methods of an Xxo object. If you look at Modules/xxmodule.c
> you'll see the same things (I'm assuming you were looking previously at
> Objects/xxobject.c). You'll see that Xxo_getattr is called out in the
> Xxo_Type struct, as the "getattr" method. So the time these would get
> invoked would be when you did this:
>
> import xx
> myXXobject = xx.new()
> myXXobject.foo = 3      # this will call Xxo_setattr
> print myXXobject.foo    # this will call Xxo_getattr

mmm allright I think I'll get it.

> If you built and linked xxobject.c, it probably wouldn't make
> sense to say "import Xxo", any more than you say "import intobject"
> before using integers. So there'd be no "Xxo" in the namespace, and
> you'd expect a NameError (as I got above) when you tried
> getattr(Xxo, "demo").

aah, sounds logical to me. ;-)

Thanks,
Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net




From pete at shinners.org  Thu Aug 23 23:47:11 2001
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:47:11 GMT
Subject: Stand Alone Executable
References: <DVih7.178$%d7.81258@nnrp3.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <37kh7.65969$ig6.19935181@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"Edwin Earl Ross" <EdwinEarl at yahoo.com> wrote
> This is a newbie question.
> I've created a 20 line program and want others to use it. Is it possible to
> create a run time release that anyone can run, without the user installing
> python on their machine?

i'd recommend starting with PY2EXE. i'm assuming you mean to do
this on windows? http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/





From mr.murray at mindspring.com  Fri Aug 24 04:11:30 2001
From: mr.murray at mindspring.com (Andrew Murray)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:11:30 -0700
Subject: API Fuction  ??
References: <mailman.998530113.21001.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9m5223$f30$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

If you're talking about a unix-ish server...
bash# w



"Kim C Tran" <KCT at EMIA.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.998530113.21001.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hi all,
>
> Is there a function that I can display a list of users in server and
> when they last log on ??
> API function may be ??
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kim,
>
>




From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 24 06:55:46 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:55:46 +0100
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
References: <3B86028A.9F5F9967@sgh.com.sg>
Message-ID: <9m64ld$mpu$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

YMK wrote:
>If I know the "Record Separator" of a flat file, how do I set to read
>one record at a time ?

Here's something I just tried out using 2.2's 'yield' statement.
(2.2 is currently in alpha release.)  Warning: this is my first
generator and I've also not fully tested it.

from __future__ import generators

def SepReader(infile, sep = "\n\n"):
    text = infile.read(10000)
    if not text:
        return
    while 1:
        fields = text.split(sep)
        for field in fields[:-1]:
            yield field
        text = fields[-1]
        new_text = infile.read(10000)
        if not new_text:
            yield text
            break
        text += new_text

It's used like this

for record in SepReader(open(fortunes), "%\n"):
    print record

If you want something that's really high speed, but uses the
mxTextTools C extension, you can try my Martel parser, which
is part of biopython.org.  The specific record readers are in
http://cvs.biopython.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/biopython/Martel/Record
Reader.py?cvsroot=biopython

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Thu Aug 16 09:56:03 2001
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 09:56:03 -0400
Subject: Extension modules and SIGINT
Message-ID: <87y9oknm6k.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I have an extension module that does a _lot_ of math with
PyLongObjects.  I'm pretty sure that I'm catching every instance where
a failure could occur in a PyNumber call, but I still get bus errors
when I send a keyboard interrupt.

Is this normal, or have I made a mistake?

- -- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
"Going to school make a person educated, any more than going to a 
garage makes a person a car" Slashdot
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt

iEYEARECAAYFAjt70PMACgkQjVztv3T8pzvyZQCg0Go2SMA6VkCo0tXF4THlrfQ1
i5QAnR9rq4ynoGCuSDzwgP5qY/VESzOT
=pLJA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 12:08:16 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:08:16 -0700
Subject: Plea for help with Large File Support
In-Reply-To: <3B6AB8BC.D41700A3@nipltd.com>; from chrisw@nipltd.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 03:44:12PM +0100
References: <3B6AB8BC.D41700A3@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <20010803090816.D3145@ActiveState.com>

On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 03:44:12PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The system I'm working on is Debian 2.2 (potato) with a ReiserFS 3.5 partition
> on it. I'm assured that on this setup, I should be able to have files of up to
> 4GB in size, currently I get barfage at exactly 2GB :-(1
> 
> What do I need to do to get Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.1 compiled in such a way
> that I read and write to files bigger than 2GB?

I doubt that Python 1.5.2 will be able to do it. Python 2.1 *might* but I am
not sure. What kind of "barfage" do you get. Can you post a small Python code
smaple to show how you are reading and writing to the file? As well, if you
could provide a C code snippet demonstrating that _C_ code can actually do
it, that would be very helpful. I.e. under the hood what C types should
Python be using to hold the offset into the 4GB file. I suspect that ReiserFS
squeezes out the extra bit from using an unsigned long instead of just a long
(is that what size_t is typedef'd to on Debian potato's glibc?).

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From david at emurasoft.com  Wed Aug 15 12:26:36 2001
From: david at emurasoft.com (david jansen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:26:36 GMT
Subject: Feedback welcome!
Message-ID: <0i8lnt4q3b027nst6us2hlq4pgd2qvrgqe@4ax.com>

Python community,

I help develop a text editor called EmEditor and we are about to focus
development on supporting the needs/wants of a select number of
communities. Our editor currently supports the development of over a
dozen languages with syntax highlighting, auto complete, plugins, high
configurability, etc. We get a lot of positive feedback but very
little from open source-positive communities like the Python
community.

The head developer and owner of our company responds to user feedback
so naturally the loudest communties get what they want while the rest
don't. I've been a fan of Python and I am very much interested in
developing an editor with Python and Python developers in mind but I
can't convince my boss to include Pyhon in our future plans if he
doesn't hear from the community itself. Even the Ruby community in
Japan makes itself heard!

To cut this short, I think this is a great chance for interested
parties in the Python community to have a say in the development of
another editor that actively tries to make itself useful to Python
developers. Our editor is shareware so of course it costs nothing to
try it out and start speaking up for the changes and features you
would like to see. There are a lot of nice environments in which to
write Python but it sure doesn't hurt to have another choice.

Thanks,
David Jansen
www.emurasoft.com


From lrl at ou.edu  Wed Aug 29 23:27:10 2001
From: lrl at ou.edu (L)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:27:10 -0700
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <e5f40188.0108291927.5ee06bdb@posting.google.com>

@home has permanently blocked all web servers because of code red,
regardless of port.


From chrisb at lineo.com  Thu Aug 23 05:50:18 2001
From: chrisb at lineo.com (Chris)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:18:18 +2328
Subject: portability
References: <nvnh7.13369$6x5.3591946@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <998666486.50090@db.lineo.com>

LeoDeBeo wrote:

> i'd like to distribute a python application with a Qt-interface (using
> PyQt-bindings) (developed on a linux machine)
> can this application used as is on both windows and linux??
> 
> tx

Yes,
As long as the windows machine has the same (or a compatible) version
of PyQt and Python installed, most scripts are completely platform
independent.  I wrote a rather large PyQt application using linux and
PyQt 2.4, then downloaded python and PyQt (2.5) to W2K and it worked
perfectly.  The only modifications I made were switching forward slashes
to back slashes in path names, but when I changed to os.path.join
calls, the script was 100% platform independent.  PyQt for windows
now exists in binary form for download at Thekompany.com and is free
of any legal issues so you should be able to distribute for both
windows and linux.

-- Chris



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Aug 30 12:47:15 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:47:15 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <9mlnsh$2emk$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302041530.9283-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gillou wrote:
> I'm trying to convince my boss to start a new project (Web service + Web
> "heavy" dedicated client) with Python when he prefers PHP.
> He's arguing that it's easier to find PHP programmers than Python
> programmers in France (he's right)
> I'm arguing that any good PHP or Java programmer can be a good Python
> programmer in one week (I'm right).
> Unfortunately, learning Zope is some more difficult than Apache/mod_php
> (he's right, I started Zope 6 months ago an I'm still dead brained on some
> problems)
> Can you give me some arguments to make the decision ?

   But Python is not Zope. Python is The Best Programming Language you can
use to write command-line programs, GUI programs, daemons, CGIs and all that.
Can you write non-CGI programs in PHP? No. But even if you do web
development, you need to write non-web programs, cron jobs, etc. Writing
them in one language is much better than writing them in a bunch of
PHP+sh+awk+whatever.
   Even if you need a web application server, Zope is not the only Python
server. There is SkunkWeb (http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/), Webware
(http://webware.sourceforge.net/),
Quixote (http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/),
Twisted (http://www.twistedmatrix.com/). You can really choose whatever
suits your needs.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 30 00:59:09 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:59:09 -0400
Subject: Follow-up: Win32/Posix file locking
References: <t7uqot8n8gjm03r2m03md8kfsjuauchqhu@4ax.com> <mailman.999131050.12210.python-list@python.org> <3farotcj9dg3fee0mt76ekkforqr71je1n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u8zg2gn36.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:

> What sort of time interval would you suggest? 0.1 seconds, perhaps? Or
> is that too short?

That should be more than enough - generally anything over 0 will at
least yield your timeslice to anything else that wants to run and
prevent you from hogging the CPU (even a time.sleep(0.01) under
Windows can be the difference between <1% CPU and 100% CPU).

Although since you're looping around I/O operations to the filesystem
it's unlikely you'd actually pin the CPU, but it's always a good
technique to follow anywhere you're looping anyway.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Sat Aug  4 12:25:40 2001
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (douglas savitsky)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 16:25:40 GMT
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
References: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8mVa7.38407$LP2.1855577@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

perhaps using the ActiveState .msi you could have the client machines do a
first use install from the server.  the first script will run a little slow
(as python installs), but then it is painlessly installed for the future.

as for running on a different machine, once installed use DCOM to use your
server if it is faster.

doug


"Daphna Shezaf" <shezafd at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I am a python enthusiast and have been programming around in python
> for sometime. I came up with the idea to use python for internal
> scripts we need in my company (for example: build scripts).
> That's nice (I think), but it will be hard to convince people that
> python interpreter should be installed on every machine around.
> Do you think it will be possible to install the interpreter on a
> single server, so that people will actually run their scripts on this
> server? Is it possible (and how), for the script to run a program on a
> different machine (We're using windows 2000 LAN)? Any other helpful
> hints?
>
> Thanks,
> Daphna




From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Tue Aug 14 04:59:50 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:59:50 -0600
Subject: Help using telnetlib to install/remove rpms
In-Reply-To: <93c49bf6.0108021102.402154db@posting.google.com>; from Rebecca.R.Hepper@seagate.com on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:02:07PM -0700
References: <93c49bf6.0108021102.402154db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20010814025950.D14571@tummy.com>

On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:02:07PM -0700, Rebecca Hepper wrote:
>I recently began looking at trying to use telnetlib to remove an old
>rpm and install a new rpm.  I can manually telnet to the machine and

Try using ssh:

   ssh remotehost sudo rpm -e package

Sean
-- 
 "Ayn Rand books and guns...  You guys take World Domination seriously."
 "It's our job."  -- Conversation with Luke Jones about Rob Riggs place.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  9 21:08:33 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 21:08:33 -0400
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com> <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com> <e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8@posting.google.com> <CWnc7.240992$EF2.29452474@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <m3ae18ewlu.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <etditfwg1ri.fsf@w20-575-8.mit.edu>

Yeah, I have something to do that.  I've used it to script the oed.com
website.  Have a look at html.py in 

http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena/user/a/l/alex_c/share/oed_dir/cookied_urllib.py

HTH.

Alex.


From mikhael at lib-sys.com  Fri Aug  3 17:04:00 2001
From: mikhael at lib-sys.com (Mikhael Loo)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:04:00 -0400
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <3b6b0ffa_1@news.chartertn.net>

I just had another Idea,
Perhaps what I need to do is sub class objects that only have constructors.
Is this the best way?

   -Mikhael
"Mikhael Loo" <mikhael at lib-sys.com> wrote in message
news:3b6b0d1e_1 at news.chartertn.net...
> How do you use multiple constructors in a python class.  I'm guesing that
it
> doesn't involve multiple __init__ functions.
>
> Below is my idea but I'm thinking there must be another method that  is
> evading me.
>
> Class MyObject:
>     Constructor1(self, number):
>         pass
>     Constructor2(self, string):
>         pass
>
> Help anyone?
>
>
>
>




From nospam at nospam.com  Thu Aug 16 12:56:10 2001
From: nospam at nospam.com (Ray)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:56:10 GMT
Subject: Creating EXE file from Python
Message-ID: <KWSe7.87478$sM.23388372@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com>

First, I am new to python.  I like to know if there is anyway to create
standalone executable from *.py ? and How?

--
              *  ;
  ;~~---__**;  ;  /~--___
,/            /---__\      , /
\                           /    I am from this place.
 \__________   _ /
                    V




From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 06:10:35 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:10:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Comparing a lot of data efficiently
In-Reply-To: <MPG.15f43279f613af34989682@news.easynews.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108270600370.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Marcus Stojek wrote:

> Any idea how I could significantly improve perfomance? In "Programming
> Python" I learned about tuple stacks, binary search trees and graphs but
> I'm not sure whether one of those will help. Do I really have to creep
> back to C? If so, can anyone tell me how to get my dictonaries into a C
> routine? (I know I have to use SWIG, but a little example would help a
> lot.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Marcus

Keys in dictionaries don't have to be strings or integers; they simply have to
be able to hash. Guess what? Tuples can hash :)

If you can guarantee that the nodes appear in the same order, then change your
dictionary definitions to be:

  {((x1, y1, z1), (x2, y2, z2), (x3, y2, z3)):num}

and then you can use the following:

  filter(trione.has_key, tritwo.keys())

to get all the common triangles of both.

If you can't guarantee that they're in the same order, then you'll have to
create some sort of class to hold the three tuples and return a value from
__hash__() that will be the same when the three nodes are in any order, but
not for nodes that have different values.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 12:35:29 2001
From: TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com (Terry Byrne)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:35:29 -0700
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
Message-ID: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com>

All,

I need to allow clients to run a DOS batch file from an HTML form that
resides on a Windows NT server. Using system(commandline) I always get
an OSError.

Right now we're using pcAnywhere to log on to the server and run the
batch file that way. I want to make it simpler by using the HTML form.

The batch file will always be in the same location on the server. I
want to avoid all drive mapping complications by just running the
batch file from an HTML form. Is there a way to do that, or is it
disallowed for security reasons or some other?

Thanks!


From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Tue Aug  7 06:08:14 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:08:14 +0100
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <8afvmt8ck86d7ug5clnu3h0qek4hb7ope0@4ax.com>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:01:24 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
wrote:

>"Phil Tomson" <ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message
>news:X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673 at e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
>    ...
>> Questions for the Ruby community to ponder: What sorts of features do we
>> need that might be unique to Ruby?  [One that comes to mind: the ability
>> to extend an existing class.]  For the
>
>In what sense is this "unique to Ruby"?  The following works in Python:

<code>

># and now you can call anInstance.two(), having
># extended existing class Existing "after the
># fact" -- already-created instances also get
># to use the 'extensions' to the class.

He might be talking about the way you can reopen and extend existing
_built_in_ classes in Ruby, for example:

class Regexp
  alias oldcomp =~
  def =~ (astring)
     match(astring)[1..9]
  end
end

...Regexp being part of the standard library.  Can you do this in
Python?  It would be nice...

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 18:52:20 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:52:20 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <0oAh7.131792$EP6.36725717@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEODLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Terry Reedy]
> *NOT* using {} redundantly for blocking frees {} for use as dictionary
> delimiters.  Anyone who suggests using {} for structure should be
> asked how they would write dictionary literals!

Easy!  Instead of, e.g.,

    if 1:
        x = {1: 'a', 2: {'b': 3}}
        print x

we'll rehabilitate indentation for dict literals:

    if 1 {
 x =
     1: 'a'
     2:
         'b': 3
  print x
 }

IOW, the body of a dict literal needs to be indented relative to the
preceding stmt, and the stmt following a dict literal needs to be dedented.
Apart from those rules, you can enjoy the readability afforded by curly
braces to start stmts wherever the hell you feel like, damn it <wink>.




From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Fri Aug 10 14:37:05 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:37:05 +0200
Subject: normalize and END_DOCUMENT in pulldom...
Message-ID: <9l19kh$dq4$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

1. Is there any way to make Node.normalize() work in pulldom?
   Perhaps a DOMEventStream.normalize() would be just as useful?

(I see that Paul Prescod in example [1] assumes that the stream
is normalized... Or at least that some character nodes are normalized;
is there any guarantee that the contents of some tags will be returned
as one character node, e.g. if everything is on one line? He does
things like print "<title>%s</print>" % node.data, where node corresponds
to a CHARACTERS event... I may be missing something here...)

2. Why isn't an END_DOCUMENT event returned when the document ends?
   I get a START_DOCUMENT, but not an END_DOCUMENT...

I guess I don't really need it, since the event stream will end
anyway, but it seems odd.

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2000-June/002571.html

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From ulf.kister at t-online.de  Sat Aug 11 14:46:05 2001
From: ulf.kister at t-online.de (Ulf Kister)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 20:46:05 +0200
Subject: gnus/nnml to mbox converter with python
Message-ID: <87g0aybfki.fsf@harry.my.net>

Hi,

I am considering writing a tool to  convert mails out of the gnus/nnml
mailspool format to ordinary mbox format (with python). 

Before rolling up the sleeves I wanted to know if something similar
has been done before.

tia, Ulf

-- 
gpg public key at http://www.keyserver.net/


From bokr at accessone.com  Tue Aug 21 16:33:09 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:33:09 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net> <7x1ym8jyuk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b82c380.100866027@wa.news.verio.net>

On 19 Aug 2001 00:25:07 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:

>bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) writes:
>> >Here's one: say I have a long int, like x = 7**77777L.  How can I tell
>> >how many bits it takes to express that number in binary?  How can I
>> >convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
>> >form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can
>> >think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.
>> >
>> >Thanks.
>> Brute force, but easy to understand:
>>  >>> x = 7**77777L
>>  >>> cl = []
>>  >>> while x:
>>  ...     cl += chr(x&0xff)
>>  ...     x = x>>8
>>  ...
>>  >>> s = ''.join(cl)
>> 
>> Which gives you a little-endian result.
>
>This is too slow to be reasonable.
>
>> To get the string length required quickly, we can use
>> the builtin hex conversion which is very fast.
>> Note the '0x' in front and 'L' at the end (3 extra)
>>  >>> hex(x)[:5]
>>  '0xC7F'
>
>Thanks, I didn't know about the hex function.  I tried ('%x' % x) and
>it gave me an overflow error message (Python 1.5.2).  It works in 2.1.1.
>
>To convert to binary, I think using hex(x) on the long int and then
>using  the binascii package to convert hex to binary is likely
>to be faster than the division loop above.
>
Definitely.

>> I grant you, the while loop takes a few seconds, and so does the
>> 7**77777L.  How fast do you need? We could write faster algorithms
>> for the exponentiations, and also the conversion to string, both in
>> Python. We could also obviously write a fast extension to do it in
>> C/C++ and return a string of 8-bit chars as fast as the hex()
>> function.  How fast do you need?
>
>I just think something is terribly wrong if converting the number
>to a binary representation (which it's already in, after all) is
>much slower than computing the number in the first place.  How
As Tim pointed out, marshal provides a fast way to serialize the
internal representation of long (and other things). If you can
live with that representation (a little-endian string made from
the internal int chunk count and the following n chunks of two
bytes each holding a little-endian short 15-bit number), it's
going to be the fastest. If you need all the bits of the number packed
8bits/byte, you'll have to repack either the marshal.dumps() or hex()
format. What are you going to do with the string buffer once you have it?
BTW, the marshaled long format is apparently platform-dependent, whereas
a packing into a string might not be, depending on how you use it.

>would you do either the exponentiation or the conversion faster
>in Python?
> 
It seems like a contradiction, but sometimes when numbers are huge
and time of internal processes grows fast (n^2 or more) with size,
you can beat it with an algorithm that computes the end result in
a different way. Being Python, obviously a new algorithm also uses
the internal processes, so it's a matter of coming up with a new
combination with less overall cost. For small numbers the logic of
a new algorithm is typically going to cost much more than it gains.

>The numbers I actually want to use are closer in magnitude to 7**777
>rather than 7**77777, if that matters.  I'd prefer to avoid using
It does matter. I couldn't beat the internal 7L**777 but I could beat
7L**77777 by 10-15%, which proves a point, but is not worth while.

>a C library.  If I use one, gmpy should do the job.  I've timed
>Python's arithmetic as around 10x slower than gmpy, which is
>quite respectable since gmpy's inner loops are carefully tuned
>assembly code, and this kind of arithmetic is hard to do efficiently
>in portable C.  Python's arithmetic is around 100x faster than
>perl's Math::BigInt.

I think a C-implemented object that lets you view and manipulate a chunk
of memory as an ordered bit list would solve a lot of problems like yours.
Assuming efficient obvious conversions from other types and back, these
things could be easy. The same mechanisms would also support a set type
pretty naturally. I'd anticipate something like
    bl = bitlist(7L**777)
    sbuf = bl.bytes()
where bytes() could be a utility method for doing quickly what
    sbuf = ''.join(map(chr,[int(bl[i:i+8]) for i in xrange(0,len(bl),8)])))
might do the long way. Maybe it could be the default str() representation.

If there weren't an internal conversion from long to bitlist, but only from string
bytes to n*8-bit bitlist, then you could access the marshalled long something like

    mbl = bitlist(marshal.dumps(7L**777)[5:])    #'l\x92\x00\x00\x00Gwx... => Gwx...
    bl = bitlist()	# empty bit list to accumulate 15-bit chunks from long
    for i in xrange(0,len(mbl),16):              # advance by pairs of bytes
        bl += mbl[i:i+8]       # first byte has 8 bits
        bl += mbl[i+8:i+15]    # 7 bits for 15 total
    
and then convert the final result to a string buffer as before
    sbuf = bl.bytes()
or
    sbuf = ''.join(map(chr,[int(bl[i:i+8]) for i in xrange(0,len(bl),8)])))

Note that a bit list can be viewed as an abstract type. It just happens to
have a convenient little-endian implementation.

To repack the marshal.dumps string currently, you could use
the following (which effectively uses the absolute value, BTW)

It's messy enough that something based on hex(), reverse, etc.
will probably be faster. (Yup, just did one, and it is over twice as
fast (about 2.25x) for 7L**777 :)
______________________
import string
tt = string.maketrans('0123456789ABCDEF',''.join([chr(x) for x in xrange(16)]))
def hexpack(n):
    h = map(ord,string.translate(hex(long(n))[2:-1],tt))
    h.reverse()
    if 1&len(h): h.append(0)
    return ''.join([chr(h[i+1]<<4|h[i]) for i in xrange(0,len(h),2)])
______________________

import marshal
def longpack(n):
    if not n: return '\x00'
    sm = marshal.dumps(long(n))
    print `sm`
    bacc=0
    bits=0
    bl = []
    for i in xrange(5,len(sm)):
        bacc |= (ord(sm[i])<<bits)
        if i&1:
            bits +=8
        else:
            bits +=7
        while bits>=15:
            bl.append(chr(bacc&0xff))
            bacc >>= 8
            bits -= 8
    while bits>0 and bacc:
        bl.append(chr(bacc&0xff))
        bacc >>= 8
        bits -= 8
    return ''.join(bl)
_________________________


From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 27 18:37:36 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:37:36 GMT
Subject: TypeError
References: <3B8AB9F7.4020707@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <QYzi7.21693$6x5.4804864@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

Martijn wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I`ve got this error every time I want to use my classes and I can`t
> figure out what`s wrong. My code is ok and I`ve used some examples from
> a book to check it but I get the same error message.This is what happends:
> 
>  >>> import MyClassFile
>  >>> m = MyClassFunction()
> Traceback (innermost last)
> File "<stdin>"
> TypeError: Call of nonfunction (type module)
> 
> I also tried:
> 
>  >>> import MyClassFile
>  >>> m = MyClassFile.MyClassFunction()
> 
> And finaly :
> 
>  >>> from MyClassfile import *
>  >>> m = MyClassFunction()
> 
> Both give me the same errors. What am i doing wrong ?!? I am using Linux
> btw.
> 
> 
> Thanx in advance,
> 
> 
> Martijn
> 
> 
when importing your MyClassFile all function and class definitions are 
executed once. Those functions and class definitions are then available 
within your programs.
but if you want to instantiate a class you need to create an instance from 
the class template

did you first instantiate your class??
it looks like you're calling a method of a class which you didn't 
instantiate
assign an instance of the class to a  variable like this:

x= 'name of the class'() 
eg if your class is called MyClass
x= MyClass()





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 12:22:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:22:50 +0200
Subject: boost::python and shared_ptr
References: <1ritfiny0o.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lt61k01h92@enews4.newsguy.com> <1rg0alk1x2.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <9lu1ss02nja@enews4.newsguy.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:1rg0alk1x2.fsf at video.bsd.uchicago.edu...
>
> >>>>> "Alex" == Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>
>     Alex> What about adding (Python-side only maybe) another
>     Alex> 'constructor' (factory, if you will) of SomeClass that's a
>     Alex> template?  If your C++ accepts templated constructors,
>
>     Alex> class SomeClass {
>     Alex> ...
>     Alex>   template <class Derived>
>     Alex>   SomeClass(boost::shared_ptr<Derived>) {
>     Alex>     // ... whatever ...
>     Alex> }
>
> I don't think I fully understand, but I'm intrigued.  Would this be
> expected to work w/o the clone method I mentioned in the OP?  If not,

The idea would be to avoid the clone method, yes -- if this
works at all.


> I don't see the advantage of this over what I have currently:
>
>   typedef boost::shared_ptr<Base> PtrBase;
>   SomeClass( PtrBase )
>
> because the problem doesn't seem to be in the polymorphism ( I can use
> my shared_ptr<Derived> in classes expecting a shared_ptr<Base>

In this case, then such a template as I proposed probably
won't help, either -- sorry.


> But to get back to your example ... it makes me wonder if the example
> you gave, or something similar ( a constructor that knows something
> about how boost::python represents objects created in python and the
> conversion functions to_python from_python ) could be used like
>
> d = Derived()
> s = SomeClass( d )
>
> w/o the use of the clone method.  In a nutshell, how to automagically
> create a shared_ptr<Derived> from a Derived object constructed in
> python.  Is your example expected do this?

Yes, that was what I expected would happen.

> BTW: I use gcc 2.95.2.  Does it support templated constructors?

Sorry, no idea -- the newer gcc 3.0 does, though, I believe.


Alex





From hlboey at pl.jaring.my  Sun Aug  5 22:02:33 2001
From: hlboey at pl.jaring.my (Boey Pak Cheong)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:02:33 +0800
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
References: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my> <j4k80ma03o.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3B6DFAB9.F863D7BD@pl.jaring.my>

Martin von Loewis wrote:

> Boey Pak Cheong <hlboey at pl.jaring.my> writes:
>
> > From my limited knowledge, I looked at pyport.h and figured that
> > LONG_BIT must be defined somewhere else since sizeof(long) is defined as
> >
> > 4. But I just can't figure out where. Has anyone faced this problem and
> > found a solution or workaround. Please help.
>
> That's a bug in the glibc pre-release version that was shipped with
> Redhat 7. You need to update glibc, as Redhat also advises you to do.
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Thanks for the advice. Upgraded glibc and build was successful.

Regards,

P.C. Boey



From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 20:24:38 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:24:38 GMT
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9k9ekl$ev$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3B6B3F0B.582EA80D@yahoo.com>

Gillou wrote:

> I still can't understand how to debug DTML.

I found this product to be very helpful:
http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/ZDebug
It makes the traceback page a lot more informative.
 
> What's missing:
> 
> - The ability to mix easily Python and DTML in one object like PHP or JSP
> (actually you must make a python method when 2 lines or more are required).

Maybe you'll like this:
http://www.zope.org/Members/Kaivo/EvalTag
It claims to do exactly what you want. I haven't tried it. I'm trying to migrate
to ZPT and completely stop using DTML.

I wish I knew solutions to the rest of your problems - I have many of the same
complaints.

- 
...................    paul winkler   ....................
custom calendars & printing: http://www.calendargalaxy.com
       A member of ARMS:   http://www.reacharms.com
            home page:  http://www.slinkp.com


From teo at crepido.com  Thu Aug  2 11:07:13 2001
From: teo at crepido.com (teo)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:07:13 -0700
Subject: indent in xml
References: <mailman.996723367.12395.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd144f8b.0108020704.4caf48c7@posting.google.com>

try this one:



doc.parse(s) # s is the xmlfile...

thedoc = doc.documentElement

books = thedoc.getElementsByTagName("book") # returns a list of all
childs  #                                             with tagName ==
'Book' :)

for book in books:

  title_list = book.getElementsByTagName("title")

  print title_list[0].firstChild.data.strip()

  print book.firstChild.firstChild.data.strip()  



I think this is what you want to do.:) 



/teodor







"sdf" <wqh-2 at 263.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.996723367.12395.python-list at python.org>...



> I want to get the first child node of one node,but because of the indent 



> problem(I think so),the first two child is not what i want ,but the '\n' 



> and '',the xml file is:



> <books>



>   book>



>   <title>Pierre: The Ambiguities</title> 



>   <author>Herman Melville</author> 



>   <price>9.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>    <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>12.99</price> 



>   </book>



>   <book>



>   <title>The Republic</title> 



>   <author>Plato</author> 



>   <price>15.99</price> 



>   </book>



> </books>



> 



> and my py file is



> 



> >>> from xml.dom.minidom import parse, parseString



> >>> s="d:\\i.xml"



> >>> doc=parse(s)



> >>> doc.childNodeTypes



>  (1, 7, 8, 10)



> >>> doc.nodeName



>  '#document'



> >>> doc.childNodes



>  [<DOM Element: books at 11502084>]



> >>> book=doc.firstChild



> >>> book.childNodes



> [<DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11610468>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11525428>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM
Element: book at 11622660>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node " 
">, <DOM Element: book at 11630100>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text
node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11637540>, <DOM Text node "\n">,
<DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11644948>, <DOM Text node
"\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11652356>, <DOM
Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at
11659756>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element:
book at 11667156>, <DOM Text node "\n">]



> ###############   how can I delete the <DOM Text node "\n"> and <DOM Text node "  ">



> ##      and what is the meaning of (1, 7, 8, 10)(the reslut of doc.childNodeTypes)



> 



> 



> __________________________________________



> 



> DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm



> ??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm


From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Wed Aug  8 17:07:27 2001
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 22:07:27 +0100
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org> <9k9svq$os4$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <IGcc7.55219$WD1.3269364@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9ks9mf$p28$1@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

> > How about my `cl' suggestion?
> 
> I still like Michael ... sorry, "mycl".
> 
> Easy to pronounce, easy to understand, and hopefully not too
> contentious for anyone to bear.

Err, wrong on that last part :-)  What's the precedence for `my' in
Python?  Do you use `myself'  ;-)


Ralph.



From phawkins at spamnotconnact.com  Tue Aug  7 12:29:03 2001
From: phawkins at spamnotconnact.com (phawkins at spamnotconnact.com)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 12:29:03 -0400
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi> <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com> <9ko4ld013pc@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <wky9ov6dgw.fsf@mail.connact.com>

>>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

AM> def cdr(alist):
AM>     return alist[1]

Make that:

return alist[1:]

lithpingly-yrth,
Patricia
--
Patricia J. Hawkins
Hawkins Internet Applications, LLC




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 14 02:35:55 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:35:55 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <15224.48600.621401.101492@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108141031100.865-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>         TRACK_OBJECT       math.sin
>         ...
>         LOAD_FAST          math.sin
>         ...
>         UNTRACK_OBJECT     math.sin

What about threads? What if math.sin changes while in cache?

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From p.vrijlandt at aig.azn.nl  Thu Aug  9 12:00:36 2001
From: p.vrijlandt at aig.azn.nl (Patrick Vrijlandt)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:00:36 +0200
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
References: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9kudpe$jab$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>

> Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and deleting
> elements that don't meet a certain criteria.

Maybe you can use filter
>>> lst = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> filter(lambda x: x >= 3, lst)
[3, 4]

Or you can use a list comprehension:
>>> [x for x in lst if x >= 3 ]
[3, 4]

--
Patrick Vrijlandt




From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 13 14:38:57 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 11:38:57 -0700
Subject: string bug/oddity?
References: <mailman.997708879.1657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l96s1$8vt$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997708879.1657.python-list at python.org>,
Oktay Safak  <oktay_safak at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Terrific group! BTW, is it proper to post to the group just to thank
>the responders?

Who cares?  It's not like topicality is the prime requisite for a post
to this group, and thanks are always appreciated.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

Internet $tartup$: Arbeit ueber alles  


From wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu  Thu Aug 16 00:34:30 2001
From: wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu (Wen Jiang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:34:30 -0500
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7B4D56.81E84D37@bcm.tmc.edu>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> Quoth Wen Jiang <wj691781 at bcm.tmc.edu>:
> | I have a GUI to submit a background job and want the GUI to exit after
> | the job is submitted to leave the actually big job run for a few days to
> | compleletion. Could anyone give me a hint how to do this? right now the
> | GUI stays but blocked by the background job.
> | Thanks.
> 
> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, cmd, argv) might work for you.
> 
>         Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

The job is a class method in python, not a standalone program, os.spawnv
might not work with this situation. is it still doable with other
techniques (fork, thread ?)

Wen


From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Aug 24 11:49:20 2001
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:49:20 -0500
Subject: Is this possible: scoping question with exec
References: <3B8568C4.1010204@wi.mit.edu> <3b857256.276696248@wa.news.verio.net> <3B8667A3.7020806@wi.mit.edu> <9m5nkv$ft15$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3B867780.2070006@wi.mit.edu>


Emile van Sebille wrote:

> exec(a.func_code, {'b':4})
>
Cool!  Thanks.

Brian Kelley
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research



From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug 30 15:06:39 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:06:39 -0700
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net> <3B8CF936.4E20B7E8@student.gu.edu.au> <Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594@pollux.casema.net> <9ml41301p5t@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B8E8EBF.5573DC5@home.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Right now, as my home-LAN's router/firewall/gateway/proxybox,
> I'm setting up an old Pentium-90, 64MB-RAM machine (with Linux,
> so far, though I _am_ looking hard at OpenBSD, for that sense
> of total security it gives:-), but I'm also hungrily eyeing a
> special offer at my local supermarket -- US$500 for a Duron-900,
> 128M RAM, 20G IDE disk, fast CDROM, decent monitor/video/sound/&c
> (which I don't need for its job, though), *and a PCI bus* (rather
> than the bad old ISA in my old box) so I could mount 2 or 3 cheap
> ethernet cards without hassles.  This way I could run a decently
> configured Squid and other 'heavy' proxies right on the box...
> (not really consistent with maximum-security ideas, but...).

Alex,

I have no idea where you live, but I have an old Pentium 90 w/ 64MB and
PCI bus that I would be happy to give you, if you pay for shipping from
Seattle, WA, USA.

It happily ran Linux for years, and got me through my dissertation. Last
I tried, it crashed on boot with a problem with either the SCSI adapter
or disk (it is an all-SCSI system, quite hot for it's day! Adaptec 2940
fast wide, 1GB Fujitsu disk) I already had a new machine, so I never
bothered to figure out what was wrong with it. IFnothing else, it should
run fine if you slap a IDE drive in it.

It's yours if you want it....It's sad to see it get more and more
obsolete sitting in my closet. 

-Chris


-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From jhg at athensgroup.com  Fri Aug 31 15:07:31 2001
From: jhg at athensgroup.com (James Garrison)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:07:31 -0500
Subject: Changed Zope Site Root -- Site Disappeared!  Pls Help.
Message-ID: <3B8FE073.6A764B18@athensgroup.com>

I accidentally changed the Site Root setting for a Zope folder,
and now all attempts to access the folder from the admin interface
(i.e. to fix the site root) return "Zope Error - Resource Not Found".
The folder still appears in the manage UI, but I can't get to it
to fix it.

How do I correct this problem?

-- 
James Garrison                                Athens Group, Inc.
mailto:jhg at athensgroup.com                    5608 Parkcrest Dr
http://www.athensgroup.com                    Austin, TX 78731
PGP: RSA=0x04B73B7F DH/DSS=0x70738D88         (512) 345-0600 x150


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 08:18:18 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 05:18:18 -0700
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
References: <mailman.998762078.15143.python-list@python.org> <3B880077.B2ABBB5A@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7x8zg58zn9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Rob Andrews <rob at jam.rr.com> writes:
> > Your list is missing PyGTK, based on GTK+.
> > 
> Also of some interest is wxPython (http://www.wxpython.org/). And
> Jython/Swing is interesting to say the least, but for people who aren't
> coming from a Java background it may not be the ideal first approach to
> play with.

OK, sure, I'd like to hear more about PyGTK too.

I know enough about Swing to not be interested in it.

I wrote a simple test application (RPN calculator vaguely inspired by
HP-35) in Tkinter just as an exercise.  It was very easy to write,
looking at the docs in

 http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter

as I went along, but at least with those docs, there were some simple
things I wasn't able to figure out how to easily do.  For example, I
don't see an easy way to make the buttons in a column come out the
same size (though their labels were of different lengths).

My calculator is at

  http://www.nightsong.com/phr/python/calc.py

if anyone wants to look at it.  Comments are welcome but don't expect
much--I just threw it together to try out the toolkit, not to make
something slick or useful.  I might try to fix it up further sometime
though (and there's a function or two that I didn't get around to
implementing).

I'm impressed though that with Tkinter I was able to implement a
more-or-less working calculator with just 3k of code.  I'm sure
the Micrsoft Windows calculator is at least 100x that size <g>.

I'm still very interested in hearing comparisons between Tkinter
and other Python toolkits.


From gorny at hobbiton.org  Sat Aug 25 10:19:00 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:19:00 +0200
Subject: seg. fault with ext. module
References: <s5Kh7.41577$Vs4.366601@zonnet-reader-1> <m3lmk8xr77.fsf@gondolin.beleriand>
Message-ID: <utOh7.41606$Vs4.368258@zonnet-reader-1>

> You forgot to increment the reference count for None, which creates a
> problem at termination time.
>
> See http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html

If I understand it all well, the problem handles about NOT defining
the reference, so the returned variable stays in memory??
I have to do this *always* when working with variables in the
module which can be accessed from python??
Well thanks in advance...:)

Greets,
Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net




From jknapka at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 21 12:57:36 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph Andrew Knapka)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:57:36 +0000
Subject: Trouble with Tk buttons
References: <mailman.998414732.16193.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B829300.6C441175@earthlink.net>

David AraSmith wrote:
> 
> I have a small program that I am writing to help me
> learn Tk. Basicly, I have a frame (inside another
> frame)with grid layout that has 2 buttons on the first
> row. When you click on one button, another row of
> buttons appear (in row 2). The same thing happens when
> you click the second button but they replace the first
> second row and vice versa. My problem is that when the
> second button is pressed and the "new" second row is
> displayed, the original second row still shows if the
> text is longer.

Are you sure? Your code seems to work fine; I tried it
on Linux and Windows NT, using Python 2.1.1.

-- 
# Joe Knapka
# "You know how many remote castles there are along the
#  gorges? You can't MOVE for remote castles!" - Lu Tze re. Uberwald
# Linux MM docs:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html



From nospam at bigfoot.com  Thu Aug  9 14:17:48 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:17:48 +0200
Subject: I want to disect a irc client's source
References: <iWwc7.6402$Ke7.383993@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9kujq8$2bih$1@norfair.nerim.net>

Try this, it will certainly be easier (already in python):

http://joel.rosdahl.net/hacks/

"Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
iWwc7.6402$Ke7.383993 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> I got the source code for a irc client i used but it was written in
> mircosoft visual C ++ 6.0. Does that matter? If anyone has experience in
> this field you can check out the source code yourself and tell me what you
> think.
>
>
> http://www.dircscripts.com/source.php
>
>
>




From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sat Aug  4 15:29:16 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:29:16 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
In-Reply-To: <E15T3uG-0001rH-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041317320.23263-100000@bms>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 zooko at zooko.com wrote:
>  Skip Montanaro wrote:
> >
> > How long should I wait for this to print out an error message?  On my
> > Mandrake 8.0 system running Python 2.1.1 I'm letting it run (and run, and
> > run) and have not so far seen a problem.
>
> Hm.  I took your modified version of my test script and added to the end:
>
> print "i, ", i
>
> And I get plenty of errors...

Python 2.0.1 (#0, Jun 23 2001, 23:50:30)
[GCC 2.95.4 20010319 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys, time
>>> x=0;i=0
>>> while 1:
...     ox = x
...     x=time.time()
...     if x < ox:
...         print "WRONG: ox=%s, x=%s\n" % (ox,x)
...         break
...     else:
...         i=i+1
...         if i%10000 == 0:
...             sys.stdout.write(".")
...             sys.stdout.flush()
...
........................

How many iterations should I let this go through before I can say it
is not a problem on this Debian testing/unstable (or Woody/Sid, if
you prefer) box?

Something to keep in mind... packages in a pure testing (Woody) system
can go for weeks without bug fixes and security upgrades.

<...>
> So my `gettimeofday()' sometimes returns a decreasing value.
>
> Hm.  So I suppose I should report this as bug to debian...

I'd try to replicate it with a C program first, and upgrade to the
libc in unstable before doing so.


- Bruce




From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sat Aug  4 23:12:45 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:12:45 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041317320.23263-100000@bms>  <E15TAIg-0003rW-00@imp.aerie>
Message-ID: <00f101c11d5c$8117c560$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

import time

class IncreasingTimer:
    def __init__(self):
        trye = 1.0
        self.lasttime=time.time()

        while (self.lasttime + trye) > self.lasttime:
             olde = trye
             trye = trye / 2.0

        # Multiplying by 2.0 once should be enough to deal with the unlikely
        # possibility that time() will increase it's binary order of
magnitude.
        # It is not necessary to do this more than once unless you are
        # planning a continuous run of more than 30 years.  Well, I guess
        # that -could- happen (unless you are using windows).
        # Let's multiply by 4.0.  I'm shy about boundary conditions. :-)

        self._TIME_EPSILON = olde*4.0


    def time(self):
        t = time.time()
        lasttime = self.lasttime

        if t <= lasttime:
            t = lasttime + self._TIME_EPSILON

        self.lasttime = t
        return t

By getting rid of the delta logic, we allow time() to catch up with actual
time, rather than accumulate the error in an increasing delta.

>>> for i in range(20):
...  print t.time() - time.time()
...
0.0
4.76837158203e-007
0.0
4.76837158203e-007
9.53674316406e-007
1.43051147461e-006
1.90734863281e-006
2.38418579102e-006
0.0
4.76837158203e-007
9.53674316406e-007
1.43051147461e-006
1.90734863281e-006
2.38418579102e-006
0.0
4.76837158203e-007
9.53674316406e-007
1.43051147461e-006
1.90734863281e-006
2.38418579102e-006

----- Original Message -----
From: <zooko at zooko.com>
To: "Bruce Sass" <bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing


>
> I have committed a cleaned up version of the IncreasingTimer which does
less
> floating point arithmetic and which contains comments showing exactly what
> I don't know about floating point.
>
>
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/mojonation/evil/co
mmon/timeutil.py?content-type=text/plain
>
> The relevant excerpt of the source is appended.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zooko
>
>
> class IncreasingTimer:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.lasttime = time.time() # This stores the most recent answer
that we returned from `time()'.
>         self.delta = 0 # We add this to the result from the underlying
`time.time()'.
>
>         # How big of an increment do we need to add in order to make the
new float greater than the old float?
>         trye = 1.0
>         while (self.lasttime + trye) > self.lasttime:
>             olde = trye
>             trye = trye / 2.0
>         self._TIME_EPSILON = olde
>
>     def time(self):
>         t = time.time() + self.delta
>         lasttime = self.lasttime
>
>         if t <= lasttime:
>             self.delta = self.delta + (lasttime - t) + self._TIME_EPSILON
>             t = lasttime + self._TIME_EPSILON
>
>         # XXX if you were sure that you could generate a bigger float in
one pass, you could change
>         # this `while' to an `if' and optimize out a test.
>         while t <= lasttime:
>             # We can get into here only if self._TIME_EPSILON is too small
to make the time float "tick over" to a new higher value.
>             # So we (permanently) double self._TIME_EPSILON.
>             # XXX is doubling epsilon the best way to quickly get a
minimally bigger float?
>             self._TIME_EPSILON = self._TIME_EPSILON * 2.0
>             # Delta, having smaller magnitude than t, can be incremented
by more than t was incremented.  (Up to the old epsilon more.)  That's OK.
>             self.delta = self.delta + self._TIME_EPSILON
>             t = t + self._TIME_EPSILON
>
>         self.lasttime = t
>         return t
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Fri Aug 17 09:16:48 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:16:48 +0300
Subject: __del__ ignores exception in 2.1?
References: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr> <3B7D18DF.60B4725F@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <3B7D1940.32077D92@iit.demokritos.gr>

ignrs%^&#*: OK I give up!

sorry for the bandwidth!


From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Sun Aug 26 01:54:59 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:54:59 +1000
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
References: <mailman.998651976.28203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B888F33.2CB036F6@student.gu.edu.au>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: Joal Heagney [SMTP:s713221 at student.gu.edu.au]
> > Not if she bans him from the computer. *sighs for his
> > not-long-ago-childhood when people used actual PHYSICAL cards to play
> > solitare*
> 
> What are you - some kind of Luddite? Next you'll be telling me that you
> think meeting people is better than email!

Welll .... *grins* There's just SOME things you can't do over email!

> Cheers,
> Simon Brunning
> TriSystems Ltd.
> sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
--
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From dalke at acm.org  Mon Aug 13 17:17:27 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:17:27 +0100
Subject: Dynamic attribute introspection
References: <QB%d7.117036$Xr6.617102@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <cpelqfe20g.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9la8qe$ffh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Guido:
>With the new class system, many uses of __getattr__ can be replaced by
>descriptors for get/set attributes; see the section "Attributes
>defined by get/set methods" in the tutorial mentioned above.

Looking at the tutorial, I note that the 'getset' mentioned there
wouldn't trivially [*] work for one __getattr__/__setattr__ solution
I developed.  In that case, there was a write-only attribute,
where you could set it but not read from it.

Granted, such things aren't very common, but it might be useful
to consider that a default 'getset' may need to allow a 'get = None'.
This is especially relevant if indeed it does "become a built-in type
in 2.2a2."

[*] By trivial I know that one simple solution is to write my own
getset equivalent.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com







From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug 28 23:24:24 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:24:24 +1000
Subject: bsddb module woes
In-Reply-To: <01082913180901.01463@ike>
References: <01082912524400.01463@ike> <01082913180901.01463@ike>
Message-ID: <01082913242402.01463@ike>

On Wednesday 29 August 2001 13:18, Richard Jones wrote:
> I found some hints from people having similar problems. They suggest using
> db_dump185 and db_load to convert the db files. My problem is:
>
> % db_dump185 nodes.user
> db_dump185: nodes.user: Invalid argument
>
> We're now going to try to dump the dbs using a system with redhat 6.2
> installed...

And this has solved our problems. But there's got to be a better way than 
this... blech


    Richard



From nas at python.ca  Thu Aug 23 17:07:49 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:07:49 -0700
Subject: Downloading alpha releases; a good idea?
In-Reply-To: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>; from jessw@loop.com on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 12:12:58PM -0700
References: <3B84F34A.4496.2F8AB2A@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010823140749.A11328@glacier.fnational.com>

Jesse W wrote:
> I am a hobby user of Python.
> How unstable are alpha releases?

Usually very stable.  However, if you are using Python for an important
application it's better to stick to the latest stable release.

> I now have Python 2.0 and am thinking about updating.  Should I go to
> 2.1(.1, of course), wait for 2.2 final, or get 2.2.a2 which is out
> now?  And if I go with 2.1.1 should I update to 2.2 final when it
> comes out?

If you have time, please give 2.2a2 a try.  If you can, download the
source and try building it.  Run the standard test suite.  Try running
your own applications.  Python's test suite is substantial but it's
nothing compared to all the other code out there.  Play with the new
features.  2.2 has some pretty nifty changes and Guido is still looking
for feedback.

Testing alpha and beta releases is an easy way to support Python
development.

  Neil



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 22 18:59:42 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:42 -0700
Subject: How does Python (v2.1.1) handle parameter passing? By value or by 
 reference?
References: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>
Message-ID: <3B84395E.121C5E41@ccvcorp.com>

Rob van Wees wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As a newbie to Python, I'm having trouble finding out how the interpreter
> handles parameters that are passed to functions. Sometimes they seem to be
> handled as values and sometimes as references.
>

The standard answer is that Python always uses call-by-value, but the values
that it passes are references.

When you pass a parameter into a function, you have a *new* reference to the
object that the parameter is pointing to.  If you then rebind that reference (as
you do in f1 and f3), you have not affected the original object; the original
references to that object are unaffected as well.  However, if you *mutate* the
object that the reference is pointing to (as you do in f2), then all other
references to that object still point to the same, mutated object.  The key
difference is whether your function modifies the original object, or creates a
new (though perhaps related) object.  Try playing around with the id() function
(which returns the unique ID of any python object) to get a better feel for
what's happening under the covers.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 15 11:42:08 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:42:08 -0700
Subject: Subst being a wigger
References: <5a140c6d.0108142136.6dc1cd2f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9le5gn$8l8rj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I suspect you're somehow running into a built-in/external problem.  subst is
an external command and dir is a shell built-in.  I'd look into the start
command to address that, or look into net use as an alternate.  NT has (as
far as I know) always allowed remapping its shared folders to itself.
Here's some code that works for me that uses net use to direct output to a
selected printer:

osCommands = [('net use %s: /DELETE' % (printerDevice,)),
        ('net use %s: %s /PERSISTENT:YES' % (printerDevice, printerID)),
        ('copy %s %s:' % (outFile, printerDevice))]

batch = open(batFile, 'w')
for eachCommand in osCommands:
    batch.write("%s\n" % eachCommand)
batch.flush()
batch.close()
os.system(batFile)

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Scott Taylor" <foobarickknob at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5a140c6d.0108142136.6dc1cd2f at posting.google.com...
> Does anybody know why this works...
>
> os.system('dir')
>
> ... but this doesn't? ...
>
> os.system('subst x: c:\\winnt')
>
> The symptoms w/ the subst line is that the subst actually takes
> affect, but I get an hanging dos box laying about until I ctrl-C out
> of it.  Platform is w2k.
>
> Oh, and if anybody knows of a better way to do a subst, I'd sure like
> to hear about it.
>
> Thanx!
>
> Scott



From deltapigz at telocity.com  Tue Aug 21 11:25:42 2001
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:25:42 -0400
Subject: socket question
Message-ID: <3B827D76.339CA24F@telocity.com>

how do i enumerate actively connected sockets through the socket module?
mainly targetting a server setting.

any help would be greatly appreciated,
Adonis



From sheila at spamcop.net  Fri Aug 31 14:55:04 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:55:04 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <danvot096t6fereltm5juv2fo6jhnnq9n0@4ax.com>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:47:40 GMT, "jeroen paul goudsmit"
<hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<gZQj7.55$j9.417 at castor.casema.net>:

:This site about tkinter really sucks!
:http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-tkinter.htm
:look what they say:
:# File: hello1.py
:
:from Tkinter import *
:>>>>>> error!!!!!!!!! this filke does not exists it has to be _tkinter
:
:root = Tk()
:
:>>>>>>>>> error!!! methode not found
:
:w = Label(root, text="Hello, world!")
:>>>>>>>. error, label not defined. .....
:w.pack()
:
:root.mainloop()

What version of Python are you running? I've never seen Python make
error messages that look like that.

If the statement

from Tkinter import *

generates error messages, it makes me think that you don't have
Tk/Tkinter installed properly???

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 24 14:25:54 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:25:54 -0700
Subject: Plethora of strange cracker newbie questions
References: <3B85E791.E18BA991@engcorp.com> <h8p4m9.uas.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xpu9mat5b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3B869C32.88143629@ccvcorp.com>


Paul Rubin wrote:

> kosh <kosh at aesaeion.com> writes:
> > The irc one I can think of some good uses for. I had a program at one time
> > that would watch stuff on an irc server then alert me to things of interest.
> > pinging can be very useful since you can write a script to make sure your
> > various computers are up. If one goes down you can spawn off a task to
> > notify you. However the others are far less useful.
>
> I followed the irc discussion with some interest.  I like the idea of
> a full featured GUI-fied irc client written in Python.  It's a fairly
> natural Python application.

Actually, I like the idea too.  It's something that's going on my list of projects
to work on, someday, when I have time... (yeah, right.)  Of course, I know enough
to not commit to anything without having read through the relevant RFC's and such
first...   ;)   So, I've been bookmarking all the ref's that have been given
out.   It does sound like an interesting mid-sized (for one person) project....

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International






From jim.vickroy at noaa.gov  Fri Aug 31 10:23:06 2001
From: jim.vickroy at noaa.gov (jim.vickroy)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:23:06 -0600
Subject: doctest and '\0'
Message-ID: <3B8F9DC9.B31DAFEA@noaa.gov>

I have installed Python 2.1 on a MS Windows computer.

It appears that doctest does not work with '\0'.

Below is a sample module that illustrates the:

    "TypeError: compile() argument 1 must be string without null bytes,
not string"

exception being raised.

Am I doing something wrong?  If not, is there a work-around for this?

Thanks for your time.


# begin: doctest_problem_01.py
=====================================================

"""
Illustrates a problem using *doctest* with '\0' characters.
"""


import array



def wrap ( this ) :
   """
   Returns *this* as a string suitable for transmission to an external
process.

   USAGE:
      >>> import doctest_problem_01 as message

   NOTES
      - The input parameter is expected to be a non-blank string having
a length
         in the range [1,1023].
         >>> aString = ''
         >>> result = message.wrap (aString)
         Exception raised:
         Traceback (most recent call last):
         AssertionError
         >>> aString = '012345'
         >>> result = message.wrap (aString)

      - The input parameter is not modified.
         >>> aString
         '012345'

      - The returned string is always 1024 bytes.
         >>> assert len (result) == 1024

      - The final byte, in the returned string, is always '\0'.
         >>> assert result [1023] == '\0'

      - A '\0' byte is used as the fill byte for input strings shorter
than
         1023 bytes.
         >>> for i in xrange ( len (aString), 1024 ):
         ...    assert result [i] = '\0'
         ...
         >>>
   """

   assert this
   assert len (this) in range (1, 1024)

   message_block = array.array ('c', this)
   for i in xrange ( len (this), 1024 ):
      message_block.append ('\0')

   return message_block.tostring()




def _validate_documentation_code_examples ():
   """
   Ensure the code examples in the documentation execute as expected.
   """

   import doctest
   import doctest_problem_01
   print '\n\n Validating %s documentation code examples -- no output
implies no errors ( ~2 seconds )\n' \
      % doctest_problem_01.__name__
   return doctest.testmod (doctest_problem_01)
#>    import sys
#>    return doctest.testmod (sys.modules["__main__"]) # use if there is
module-level code that must only execute once




if __name__ == "__main__":
   _validate_documentation_code_examples()

# end: doctest_problem_01.py
=====================================================




From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Aug  8 13:34:24 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 03:34:24 +1000
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <87vgjymp5r.fsf@xeno.localhost>

gyromagnetic at excite.com writes:

> Hi,
> I am a relative newbie to Python, so this question may be quite naive.
> Is there a way to 'map' methods to a list of items?
> 
> For a simple example, suppose that I want to convert the items in a
> list to uppercase. Currently, I might do something like
> >>> import string
> >>> val=['abc', 'def', 'ghi']
> >>> map(string.upper, val)
> ['ABC', 'DEF', 'GHI']
> 
> Is there a way to map the .upper method to these items? Something
> like, for example,
> >>>>map(?.upper, val). 
> 
> I think that map currently works by applying a function to each of the
> items in the list, but would it be useful for 'map' to be able to take
> a method instead of a function?

Something like this?

[s.upper() for s in strings]



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug  4 10:41:27 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:41:27 -0500
Subject: Zope is Evil is back.
In-Reply-To: <3B6B3F0B.582EA80D@yahoo.com>
References: <9k78ar$anv$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
        <9k9ekl$ev$1@norfair.nerim.net>
        <3B6B3F0B.582EA80D@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15212.2455.286369.472300@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> I'm trying to migrate to ZPT and completely stop using DTML.

For those of us who don't follow Zope closely, what's ZPT?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Aug  2 10:56:19 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 10:56:19 -0400
Subject: How to define a GLOBAL Variable ?
In-Reply-To: <oqk80msey7.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
References: <3b68d0d5@news.iprimus.com.au> <oqk80msey7.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <oqbslyse7g.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

[Fran?ois Pinard]

> [Peter Moscatt]

> > If I wish to define a variable that I want to become global to ALL classes
> > within a .py file - how is this best achieved ?

> Hell, Peter.

Grrumph!  What a typo!  I meant "Hello", of course! :-)

> It's easy (like most things in Python!).  Just define your class global
> variable, using the class name to the left of a dot.  For example:

>         >>> class Factory:
>         ...	def printer(self):
>         ...		print self.value
>         ... 
>         >>> a = Factory()
>         >>> b = Factory()
>         >>> Factory.value = 3.1415926
>         >>> a.printer()
>         3.1415926
>         >>> b.printer()
>         3.1415926

I might have misread your request, while reading my answer.  I understood
that you wanted to define a variable to become global to all instances of
a given class, and this is to what the above replies.  Sorry!

If you want to define a global variable in a module, just do it at the other
level, that is, outside any "def ...:".  You do not have to textually define
it before referring to it, as long as the global assignment dynamically
occurs before the references to it.  If you want to define a global within a
"def ...:", use the "global" declaration, like this:

    def some_function:
        global value
        value = 3.1415926

and just refer to `value' from anywhere else, afterwards.

If you request is really to define a global variable in all classes,
but not outside them, this might become a bit more tricky.  Presuming that all
your classes are defined at the outer level of your module, you might do:

    import types
    for klass in globals().values():
        if type(klass) is types.ClassType:
            klass.value = 3.1415926

and then refer to "self.value" into any class method.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:55:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:55:28 +0200
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Reading a file two different ways...from ENGSOL
References: <3b6b720d.12189167@news.onemain.com>
Message-ID: <9kgnq802p9u@enews4.newsguy.com>

<engsol at teleport.com> wrote in message
news:3b6b720d.12189167 at news.onemain.com...
    ...
> If it's in error, please post a correction.
    ...
> def readfile(foo_name):                           # Pretty much as above
>     foo_file = open(foo_name, 'r')
>     while 1:
>         foo_line = foo_file.readline()
>         if foo_line:                              # Notice we change the
order of
>             print foo_line,                       # the IF, just because
we can
>         else:
>             break
>     foo_file.close()

It should work fine, but it's needlessly complicated.  Why not:

def readfile(foo_name):
    foo_file = open(foo_name, 'r')
    for foo_line in foo_file.xreadlines():
        print foo_line,
    foo_file.close()

if one wants to be Finalizationly Correct, or just:

    for foo_line in open(foo_name, 'r').xreadlines():
        print foo_line,

if the potential risk of having a file stay open (for reading) a
little longer than strictly necessary (in implementations that
can't guarantee finalization, such as Jython) is not an issue.


Alex





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Aug  2 16:34:55 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 23:34:55 +0300
Subject: mod-python or pypython
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0108011335040.25694-100000@research2.asu.edu> <9k9sd6$ms4$1@chabry.caltech.edu> <9kbpo80rs@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <kuvgk6i4k0.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <9kbpo80rs at enews1.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

| If one wanted to experiment with the coming Apache 2.0, do
| any or all of the Python-enabling modules support that...?

afaik only mod_snake does.

   -- erno



From mjackson at wrc.xerox.com  Wed Aug 29 16:09:08 2001
From: mjackson at wrc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:09:08 GMT
Subject: Lists into Strings..?
References: <910D39579tefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>
Message-ID: <9mji54$6ks$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

tefol at This.Is.Not.An.Address (tefol) writes:

> I am wondering of the best* way to make string equal to an entire list of 
> strings.
> 
> >>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
> >>> sNewString = lExistingList
> 
> just doesn't seem to do it.

Is

>>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
>>> sNewString = "".join(lExistingList)
>>> print sNewString
spamSpamSPAMbaconBacon

what you were looking for?

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	Don't talk to the crazy people on the street, even though
	they may seem fun to be with.
	    - /CityPack, New York/ Chinese language edition (1996)




From syt at pegasus.logilab.fr  Fri Aug 24 11:06:09 2001
From: syt at pegasus.logilab.fr (Sylvain Thenault)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:06:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Linking Dictionary Values
References: <tocpd7pbgsr309@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ocrb2.102.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:31:44 -0500, Maan M. Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:

>Also, is it possible to link a value of a Dictionary key into a Python
>function/procedure?  So, if the key is encountered, a way for the
>functionprocedure to be run.

it's possible:

>>> def test():
...     print 'hello maan'
...
>>> dict={}
>>> dict['key']=test
>>> dict['key']()
hello maan     

Cheers

-- 
Sylvain Thenault

LOGILAB



From ksimpson at ttul.org  Wed Aug 29 17:25:39 2001
From: ksimpson at ttul.org (Ken Simpson)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 14:25:39 -0700
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com> <15243.59287.973821.916774@beluga.mojam.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281253320.28808-100000@ttul.org> <lbVi7.60355$54.3284319@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <4ff293df.0108291325.2d159aad@posting.google.com>

> Question:
> 
> When PyInline supports Perl, will Python users be able to inline Perl
> modules that inline other languages? The mind boggles. PyInline is a nice
> piece of work.

Indeed, when someone writes PyInline.Perl, it will be possible to write
horrors such as the following:

import PyInline

m = PyInline.build("""
use Inline Python => <<'END_OF_PYTHON';
def add(a, b)
    return a + b
END_OF_PYTHON
""", language="Perl")

print m.add(5, 6)
I don't even want to think of the implications...

TTUL
Ken


From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Mon Aug 13 05:39:44 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:39:44 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <000701c123db$e7bfa0f0$86bd6ac2@zko>

From: Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
> I don't know how familiar you are with Python's C-level internals. If
> you are, you'll appreciate the problem if I took a list object and
> changed its type pointer to the dictionary type -- the instance
> lay-out of a dictionary is different, and all the methods would be
> using the list data as if it were dictionary data.  Recipe for
> disaster.  Likewise, changing a featureless object into a list or dict
> would at the very least require growing the size of the instance; this
> would require a realloc(), which may move the object in memory.  But
> if there are other references to the object, these would all have to
> be updated.  Python's run-time architecture just doesn't support that.
> 

Is pointer indirection here to expensive ?

exuse-me-for-this-kind-of-post-ly-y'rs,
gzeljko









From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:15:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:15:25 +0200
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com> <tnnq6npco20l59@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9lh9mb01r19@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:tnnq6npco20l59 at corp.supernews.com...
> Thank you all for the reponses.  We are going to try both:  Python, and
JSP
> and take it from there; although I much prefer to stick with Python.

Make sure to get to www.jython.org, download Jython, and start studying
up on it and how you can integrate it with the JSP or any other Java
library/framework.  You'll get the advantages of the Python language
but exactly the same library availability and deployment options as
with Java (since it IS 100% pure Java...).


Alex





From fig at localhost.localdomain  Fri Aug 10 15:23:48 2001
From: fig at localhost.localdomain (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:23:48 -0000
Subject: PySOAP???
References: <3b73dbde.489022847@news.laplaza.org> <mailman.997460899.465.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9n8djh.1pr.fig@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:26:55 -0700, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:
>Are you really looking for PySOAP or Soap.py?
>
>Both are on sourceforge but soap.py has a lot more activity:
>
>http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywebsvcs

Oh, great!   Looks like I should change more than just the URL.


-Stephen


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Fri Aug  3 13:21:39 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:21:39 +0200
Subject: MySQL module
References: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu> <9kdhfh$3lp$1@news2.kornet.net> <3B6A6A48.5010700@___skynamics.com.invalid> <3B6AC5EB.671236C@umdnj.edu>
Message-ID: <3B6ADDA3.30309@___skynamics.com.invalid>

> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
>>Guillermo Kim wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maybe here ...
>>>http://www.mysql.com/Downloads/Contrib/MySQLmodule-1.4.tar.gz
>>>
>>>another ..
>>>http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mysql-python/
>>>
>>Forget about the first one, it's outdated and unmaintained.

Andrey Revyakin responded:
 > Is the second one still OK?

Yes! :-)

Gerhard
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From michaelteo at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug 31 02:01:57 2001
From: michaelteo at bigfoot.com (Michael Teo)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:01:57 +0800
Subject: Overflow error when printing long values
References: <mailman.999186527.5438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9ouacm.18f.michaelteo@localhost.localdomain>

I am using Python 1.5.2.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:47:09 +0800, Steven D. Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> wrote:
>
>
>On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Michael Teo wrote:
>
>> I get an "OverflowError: long int too long to convert" when I tried to 
>> print "%d" % l
>> where l is a long Python value.
>> 
>> I have tried using str(l) but that gives a trailing 'L'.
>> 
>> Any good suggestion on how to solve this problem will be greatly
>> appreciated. Thanks.
>> 
>
>It works for me -- what version of Python are you using?
>-- Steve Majewski
>
>Python 2.1.1 (#1, 07/20/01, 14:46:06) 
>[GCC Apple DevKit-based CPP 6.0alpha] on darwin1
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> big = long( 8.76e99 )         
>>>> big
>8759999999999999354471093662302337438821457945314428213916079963522740178689040274755268484706336768L
>>>> "%d" % big
>'8759999999999999354471093662302337438821457945314428213916079963522740178689040274755268484706336768'
>>>> 
>
>
>
>


-- 
Michael Teo <mailto:michaelteo at bigfoot.com>
http://miketeo.net/
PGP  0x6C846A9C  DB:7D:51:D4:4D:AB:97:79:E4:68:D9:07:94:36:D5:1A:6C:84:6A:9C
     0x6937FB05  08:50:A1:4D:2E:45:58:60:DE:71:1F:30:63:54:EF:7B



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 08:39:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:39:32 +0200
Subject: Instances?
References: <3B671064.73902FDF@mitre.org>
Message-ID: <9k8tab0eki@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Angel Asencio" <asencio at mitre.org> wrote in message
news:3B671064.73902FDF at mitre.org...
> Original class:
>
> class Foo:
>     x = []
>     y = []
    ...
> class Foo:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.x = []
>         self.y = []
    ...
>  So, does not putting data attributes inside the __init__ would
> make them the equivalent to class variables on smalltalk or
> static variables in Java?

Basically, yes.  The first version has x and y as attributes
of the class, shared by all instances; the second version has
them as separate attributes of each instance.


Alex





From paul at nlhas.no  Fri Aug 17 05:38:15 2001
From: paul at nlhas.no (paul at nlhas.no)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:38:15 +0200
Subject: Variables from variables
Message-ID: <2gppnt4vfvt570kivgsgc99e5fca7ckm3b@4ax.com>

I've come to a dead end with this one, and would be grateful for
suggestions. Scenario - a tuple with field names (self.description) to
be mapped to class variables and assigned values from self.record.

I've got this far, and get the partially successful result shown
below. I can't fathom the reasons for the exceptions.

Is there an easier way to do this?

pm



y = 0
r=self.record[0]
for x in self.description : 
	k = x[0]
	c = r[y]
	y += 1
	v = 'self.' + k
	exceptiontype = ''
	try :
	   cde = compile( "%s = %s" % (v , c) , '<string>' , 'exec')
           exec cde
           print 'OK ' +  v + ' ' + `type(v)`
	except StandardError , exceptiontype:
	   print `exceptiontype` + v + ' ' + `type(v)`

Result:

OK self.message_id <type 'string'>
<exceptions.SyntaxError instance at 0x81279e4>self.message_subject
<type 'string'>
<exceptions.NameError instance at 0x80f4a04>self.message_responsible
<type 'string'>
<exceptions.SyntaxError instance at 0x8127394>self.message_modified
<type 'string'>
<exceptions.SyntaxError instance at 0x81277bc>self.message_registered
<type 'string'>
OK self.message_alarm <type 'string'>
OK self.message_external <type 'string'>
<exceptions.NameError instance at 0x80f263c>self.message_status <type
'string'>
OK self.message_headers <type 'string'>
OK self.message_thread <type 'string'>
OK self.message_backup <type 'string'>
OK self.message_body <type 'string'>
OK self.message_comment <type 'string'>
<exceptions.SyntaxError instance at 0x81255cc>self.message_inout <type
'string'>
OK self.message_headersig <type 'string'>




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 17:13:47 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:13:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dumb question.
In-Reply-To: <002f01c130ce$74d44870$ae03a8c0@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291711270.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Andy McKay wrote:

> > print automatically ends the printed text with a \n. You can avoid this in
> two
> > ways:
>
> Or put a comma on the end of your statement, it puts a space in instead of a
> \n.
>
> print 'hello',
> print 'world'
>
> Cheers.
> --
>   Andy McKay.

Yeah, but dangling commas are ugly. Besides, the preceding reads like:

'HelloooOOOHMYGODIMFALLINGOOOOOoooooooofff.....'

Sorry, I think I should get some sleep soon ;)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Sun Aug  5 20:11:26 2001
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 17:11:26 -0700
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
References: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com> <fg7jk9.9q.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <tc5rmtseqidi4h1f4j9uct0c9hm4tudpum@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3elqqdp3l.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Tom Robinson <tom at alkali.spamfree.org> writes:

[snip]
> 
> Coming from a perl background I was surprised there isn't a header
> building function in the cgi module ... any reason behind this, or did
> they just not think of it?
> 

When I came from perl, I thought the same thing, so I built cgipm.py
(a workalike for Stein's CGI.pm).  Others on c.o.l.a told me they just
tended to write raw "print" statements in python, and not worry about
shortcuts.

After about a year of using my cgipm.py, I came to the same
conclusion: The shortcuts hide the verbosity but not the complexity of
HTTP and HTML.  Writing it out raw takes a bit more space but makes
everything obvious -- and thus maintainable by people who have never
heard of perl's cgi.pm or any other package of shortcuts.

So now I write the raw lines, but of course use python-isms to assure
it happens only once, in a non-redundant way.  Still, if you'd like
cgi.pm-style shortcuts, see cgipm.py at:

http://www.seanet.com/~hgg9140/comp/index.html


> -- 
> tom at alkali.spamfree.org
> remove 'spamfree.' to respond

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From chrishbarker at home.net  Thu Aug  2 15:36:16 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:36:16 -0700
Subject: Zero division error!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000@seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <3B69ABB0.360DE7E@home.net>

Prem Rachakonda wrote:
>   I am writing a script for 'cubic spline interpolation' and when there is
> a float value = 0.004, it is rounded off to zero and I am getting a Zero
> Division error. Is it a python bug?

> x=array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
> 2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104])
> ..
> ..
> ..
> d[0]=x[1]-x[0]
> c[1]=(y[1]-y[0])/d[0]

A couple of points: 

You are either using the array module, or the Numeric module. In either
case, your problem is probably that you defined d as being an integer
array, so you should define it as a float.

If you are using the array module, you really should be using Numeric:
check it out at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy

Once you are using NumPy, you might want your code to look something
like:

from Numeric import *
x= array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104],Float) 
# the "Float" would be assumed here, but it doesn't hurt to make it
explicit

y = ones(x.shape,Float) # just some useless data for testing

#d[0]=x[1]-x[0]
#let's make this an array computation instead:

indices = arange(len(x)-1)

d = take(x,indices+1) - take(x,indices) # boy do I wish I could pass a
sequence in as an index!

c =(take(y,indices+1) - take(y,indices)) / d

-Chris





-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 14:51:33 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:51:33 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <cpofq524lr.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9m61bs.atb.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn.pl.9m6a5m.kmu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <cpae1lzio7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.48884.18637.676324@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311705.NAA16444@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15206.61485.360973.566871@beluga.mojam.com> <200107311904.PAA17115@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <15207.1733.965818.91745@beluga.mojam.com> <200107312309.TAA17435@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010731202441.M19610@tux.distro.conectiva> <mailman.996636602.12561.python-list@python.org> <slrn9mgmso.c18.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3B6A2951.71F325D0@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <mailman.996843727.12021.python-list@python.org> <cpd76dxeni.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B6AF2B5.A98EDD39@ActiveState.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes:
> 
> > try:
> >   foo()
> > except x in class ZeroDivisionError:
> >   bar()
> 
> That would be backwards incompatible.   The expression in the except
> clause is not an arbitrary Boolean -- it's an exception or a tuple of
> exceptions.  

I don't see it as an arbitrary boolean. I see it as a very fixed
structure:

'except' varname 'in' 'class' ExceptionName[, ExceptionName]* ':'

For example, this would be illegal:

   except x not in class ZeroDivisionError:

Yes "x in class y" would be a boolean expression elsewhere but that's
just like the current exception syntax which looks like a tuple
constructor but isn't really. Either we try to reuse syntax or we don't.
If we chose NOT to reuse syntax then we could say:

try:
  foo()
except x of type ZeroDevisionError:
  bar()

i.e. we have complete control over what follows the "except" clause. We
could even introduce contextual keywords. If you tell me which strategy
you prefer, I can write a PEP.
-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From tim at zope.com  Thu Aug 30 15:03:50 2001
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:03:50 -0400
Subject: Stackless Python and Python 2.x
In-Reply-To: <Xns910D5488B669Cmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEOICFAA.tim@zope.com>

[Michael Abbott, quoting himself]
> What's the current status of Stackless Python in relation to the
> developing Python 2.x implementation?

[and then replying]
> An eloquent silence.

See

    http://www.stackless.com/

for the only news there is.

> Alas.  I thought that building in continuations was a cute idea.  
> However, I've seen Guido van Rossum quoted as being against this
> because it's incompatible with the Java Virtual Machine (as I
> understood it).

It's complicated, and "cute" isn't enough.

except-for-me<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From mark at swipe.plc.uk  Fri Aug 31 06:48:35 2001
From: mark at swipe.plc.uk (Mark Pawelek)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:48:35 +0100
Subject: Python Server Pages
References: <3B56E7ED.E4506CBD@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Y2iPO6orqyEt+fDY7mQo6nLbna6n@4ax.com>

On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:00:13 -0500, Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> wrote:

>Does anyone know the current state of python server pages?  The last
>entry on their web site is June 1999.  I remember reading a Dr. Dobb's
>Journal article at roughly the same time.  So PSP appears to be
>incredibly stable or abandoned :)
>
>Brian Kelley
>Whitehead Institute

Was it really such a good idea?

ASP.NET will allow compiled pages - a philosophy which clearly implies that the
performance reduction from interpretation should be eliminated.

But PSP used a java servlet to interpret the PSP pages - basing this on the notion that
PSP was transportable.

Transportable to what I ask?  IIS has it's own server pages. Apache has PHP. Cold Fusion
Server likewise. So is someone using these platforms really going to change to PSP in
preference to one of the 3 above? 

The idea of PSP is a good one but implementing as a Java servlet doesn't make sense to me.
Providing that option is good but making it the only option will ensure that it's
performance will always be second rate and that ASP, PHP and Cold Fusion programmers will
remain with their current development platforms.

I know what you're going to say now - why don't I roll my own? - Because I'm a scripting
person and I'll use ASP when I can and PHP otherwise - even if I prefer Python as a
language.



From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 05:48:59 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 02:48:59 -0700
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <7x3d6ui5ye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn.pl.9nkdkj.1md.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <7xsnetd56c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk <qrczak at knm.org.pl> writes:
> > That's what happens in most languages, where division rounds towards zero:
> 
> Donald Knuth says that Python is right and C is wrong, and I agree
> with him here. I expect a%b for positive b to return a value in the
> range [0, b).

That means you want % to mean "modulo" rather than "remainder".  

Anyway C apparently doesn't specify a behavior.  It leaves it up to
the machine arithmetic.  Practically all machine arithmetic rounds towards 0.
Also, the built-in Python int() function rounds towards 0.  So you have
int(-7.0/3.0) giving a different result than int(-7.0)/int(3.0), which
is kind of strange.

I haven't figured out any actual practical bad consequences of Python's
implementation but I keep thinking there might be some.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 11:47:14 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:47:14 +0200
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com> <etd3d6uf05b.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <d9deee30.0108150633.b8433f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9le5jd02g7r@enews3.newsguy.com>

"JS" <joesalt at ireland.com> wrote in message
news:d9deee30.0108150633.b8433f7 at posting.google.com...
> One question regarding handling directories from the example below...
>
> >>> checkURL('http://www.slashdot.org')
> 1
> >>> checkURL('http://www.slashdot.org/notadirectory')
> 1
>
> In the second example, the directory doesn't exist, yet I am returned
> 1? Is there a way to handle this?

Only a very ad-hoc one, I fear...

See:

>>> import urllib
>>> x=urllib.urlopen('http://www.slashdot.org/notadirectory')
>>> x
<addinfourl at 8383084 whose fp = <socket._fileobject instance at 007FE05C>>
>>> xx=x.read()
>>> print xx[:300]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2 Final//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>404 File Not Found</TITLE>
 </HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#000000" text="#000000" link="#006666" vlink="#000000">
<CENTER>
<TABLE BORDER=0 CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0><TR><TD WIDTH=1><SCRIPT
LANGUAGE="JA
VASCRIPT">
<!--
now = new Dat
>>>

So, slashdot doesn't give an error when I try to /GET that URL -- it
appears to give a perfectly valid page.  Only, a human being can see
that the title suggest it's not a real page, but one synthesized on
the fly to give a "friendly" error message.

You may pepper your checking code with a zillion special cases
to try and identify the various "friendly error message pages"
returned by sites you're interested in -- and one day, of course,
your program will end up considering "not found" a perfectly
valid URL to a document with a title such as "404 File Not
Found" or something like that.

That's "convenience" and "friendliness" for you -- the new keywords
in which name software designers now perpetrate the worst horrors,
although that old champ of this field, "performance", isn't too far
behind as yet.


Alex





From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug 10 02:37:42 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:37:42 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <j207nt8cb1snjb7hib3k0c9d9ij1jn6vrq@4ax.com>

>You aren't accounting for the trouble of managing a program that
>now has both Python's and C's problems -

It's no trouble. Python _itself_ is a mixture of Python and C code,
you know. That's likely one of the number one reasons why Python
and C so easily comingle: they were meant to. Python extension
writing is very easy, with the caveat that the moment you go from
creating an extension module to wanting to be able to generate
_constructable_ object instances of your native objects, you must
go to the trouble of learning the subtleties of the reference counting
system. Once you're past that, however, and all is cake.

C//



From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sun Aug  5 08:36:38 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 05:36:38 -0700
Subject: Issue with function keyword defaults
Message-ID: <015e01c11dab$461e79a0$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>

The default expression "{}" is evaluated only once, when the function
is defined.  The value of the expression is stored as a property of the
function object.  Thus the binding for r doesn't change, but it's value
is a dictionary, which is mutable.

The moral of the story is: mutable default arguments are dangerous.
Actually, mutable arguments in general are dangerous, unless you
know how they work.

What you need to do is this:

>>> def test(r={}):
...     r = r.copy()
...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
...     return r
...    
>>> test()
{997013843.75999999: 997013843.75999999}
>>> test()
{997013845.57000005: 997013845.57000005}
>>> test()
{997013846.88999999: 997013846.88999999}

Note that the copy also protects your dictionary argument from 
side effects if one is passed in.  In the original version you get:

>>> def test(r={}):
...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
...     return r
... 
>>> z = {'a':1}
>>> test(z)
{997014161.34000003: 997014161.34000003, 'a': 1}
>>> z
{997014161.34000003: 997014161.34000003, 'a': 1}

This may or may not be what you want, but "functional programming"
monks consider such things to be sacrilegious.  In fact, your example
should give functional programming monks a good reason to go find a
different language!  :-)

- Ken Seehof
kseehof at neuralintegrator.com
www.neuralintegrator.com/kseehof

From: "Morten W. Petersen" <morten at thingamy.net>
> Hi,
> 
> after trying to set an empty dictionary as a default keyword arguments'
> value, this happened (same thing happened on 2.0.1 BTW):
> 
> morten at debian:~$ python
> Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 10 2001, 10:03:44)  [GCC 2.95.3 20010219
> (prerelease)] on linux2 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch
> Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> import time
> >>> def test(r={}):
> ...     r[time.time()] = time.time()
> ...     return r
> ...
> >>> test()
> {997015577.922: 997015577.922}
> >>> test()
> {997015578.849: 997015578.849, 997015577.922: 997015577.922}
> >>> test()
> {997015579.446: 997015579.446, 997015578.849: 997015578.849, 
>  997015577.922: 997015577.922
> 
> I would assume that r would be re-initialized on every call, but that's
> not happening;  could anyone explain this behaviour?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Morten
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010805/f4c1f5f4/attachment.html>

From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 21 16:23:46 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:23:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: cannot zip file with zipfile
In-Reply-To: <3b82bada.0@216.0.152.7>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211620400.23498-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Scott Hathaway wrote:

> I cannot seem to create a valid zip file (one that WinZip can open).  Here
> is my code:
>
> from zipfile import ZipFile
> a = ZipFile("c:\\test.zip","w",8)
> print a.write("c:\\test.txt")
>
> Can someone please tell me what am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott

Are you close()ing the archive? According to the manual, "You must call
close() before exiting your program or essential records will not be
written."

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 13 07:24:12 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:24:12 -0700
Subject: updating com server
References: <69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l8dlg$7uq1m$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I've been working on a com server that returns ~80 fields to Excel.  While I
don't understand the why of it, my routine now when making changes to the
python source is to close Excel; make the python changes; re-register the
com server, which also serves to confirm that the source properly compiles;
and finally, to re-open Excel and the workbook I'm testing with.

HTH you with Word.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"jasper" <jaspervp at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:69b92f52.0108130242.5cbe4206 at posting.google.com...
> hi,
>
> I have made a simple comserver with python which returns a string,
> when called from word.
> I have changed the comserver to return an other string, but it still
> returns the old string. I have tried unregistering and registering
> again, but that doesn't help. the only thing that seems to help is
> rebooting.
>
> is there an easier way to do this?
>
>
> Jasper



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Aug 11 20:39:03 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 11 Aug 2001 17:39:03 -0700
Subject: guid
References: <jH0d7.154776$%a.6729348@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l4j77$18c$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <jH0d7.154776$%a.6729348 at news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>,
Mark McEahern <marklists at mceahern.com> wrote:
>
>Has anybody implemented a platform neutral way of generating unique ids (ala
>the COM guid) in Python?

There isn't and can't be one.  Part of the GUID spec is that you're
supposed to use the MAC address of a machine's networking card.  There
are all kinds of ways one could make GUID-like objects, particularly if
you could restrict the "global" to a single machine -- but it's not the
same thing.  (And before anyone asks: no, IP address is *NOT*
sufficient.)
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

Internet $tartup$: Arbeit ueber alles  


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 16:25:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:25:45 +0200
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpzo94dqvy.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
>     http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

I thought I had understood it, but still don't see where it mentions
"x.__class__ = whatever" now being forbidden or restricted?


> You can subclass dictionary, and the resulting object will be
> acceptable as a dictionary where the runtime requires a "real"
> dictionary.  Ditto for e.g. files (once I make them subclassable).

This is huge (for dictionaries, definitely -- I've never yet run
into a place where the runtime smacked me because it typechecked
for a "real" file, but I can see it would be just as important).


> > > get/set methods,
> >
> > I already *have* get/set methods, in 1.5.2; see
> > twisted.python.reflect.Accessor :-)
>
> Now everybody else gets them without having to buy into your twisted
> philosophy. :-)

This is also important, for a peculiar reason -- having built-in ways
to do "the right thing" even though it wasn't all that hard to do it
before.  The peculiar reason is: in a multi-person project, when the
Language blesses some idiom (such as implicit getter/setter, aka
"the property idiom", versus explicit getFoo()/setFoo() calls), it
becomes that much easier to get group consensus that, yes, this
idiom IS the right thing to adopt as the style for a certain library
or framework.


> To me, introspection means being able to look at yourself, not
> necessarily being able to modify yourself.  The new scheme definitely

My extant English dictionaries support your interpretation
of this word.


> It would be relatively easy to allow __class__ assignment only if (a)
> the new class is a subclass of the old class, and (b) the size of the
> new instance is the same as the old instance.  Would this be sufficient?

Does 'size' in this context mean 'number of slots'?  In this case, albeit
with somewhat peculiar contortions (requiring new.classobj or the
equivalent), I think it would be sufficient for all cases that come to
my mind -- I'd just have to put any extra attributes in the __dict__
(which I do today for *every* attribute anyway:-).

The "generate empty object through __class__ assignment" trick
would also become sort-of-possible again (although of no practical
interest whatsoever:-) -- to wit:

def make_empty_copy(any_object):
    klass = any_object.__class__
    class Empty(klass):
        def __init__(self, *args, **kwds): pass
    newcopy = Empty()
    class Full(Empty):
        __init__ = klass.__init__
        __name__ = klass.__name__
    newcopy.__class__ = Full
    return newcopy

the Full class is not really the same as any_object.__class__, but
nobody's gonna find out (presumably) since it's undistinguishable
under normal use of isinstance or any behavior-test whatsoever
(or have I forgotten to copy some needed attribute for that?).

These classes Empty and Full are examples of what I mean above
as roughly 'equivalent' to new.classobj calls:-).  I think I could
handle 'real' cases of class-change (worst case) through similar
means, i.e. generating on the fly a class that's basically what I
need but formally inherits from the object's original class so it
can be assigned.  I realize this will not support _deleting_ any
method wrt the original class, but that's not a need in any case
that easily comes to mind.


> Assuming you have a few base classes from which everything else
> builds, you only need to add __dynamic__ = 1 to those base classes.
> You can also write a metaclass (inheriting from type) that changes the
> default for __dynamic__ to 1, but it's probably easier to just seed
> your base classes.

Good point.  Yes, specifying that every class that participates in the
Super Duper Framework must directly or indirectly extend SupDupObj,
while not _quite_ as handy as not even having to specify it, seems
basically OK and pretty typical of many framework.  I may cringe a
bit seeing Python gradually moving away from the utter simplicity
of signature-based polymorphism, but that's more of an instinctive
reaction than a reasoned one based on actual use-cases.


> > This greatly eases deployment.  Fixing bugs in a running server is also
> > pretty important if you don't have the option to take the server down...
>
> Hm, I happen to hate it when people do this, because it's so fragile:
> there are lots of things that could break.  It reminds me of the

Yes, but, when servers DO have to stay up, fixing them on the fly,
albeit indeed fragile, is a specified constraint.  I guess in some cases
one could devise alternate strategies: putting up a new fixed server
process on a different machine, port-redirecting all new requests to
the new machine, and finally pulling down the old buggy server when
the conversations for the requests it was serving at fix-time are gone.

But that constrains your deployment possibilities enormously, and it
has its own huge fragilities (e.g., the server must be architected so
that multiple instances, old and new, can update the same database
without tripping on each other's feet -- just for starters).

> Really, I understand you're in love with this stuff, but I feel it as
> my responsibility to protect typical Python users from burning
> themselves.  That's why I want to require explicit declaration of
> certain forms of dynamicism.

*blink* I had never thought Python's philosophy was protecting
"typical users" from themselves -- I thought that was the idea
of Pascal, Modula-2, &c, to Eiffel, the languages that know what's
good for you better than you know yourself, so they'll force you
to program the way Wirth (or Meyer) KNOWS is the one right
way to program.  As I previously read your recent posts, I thought
that the __dynamic__ thing was about performance instead...?


> > suspect that many more dynamic features than you like are really really
> > useful.
>
> In the hands of a select few, yes.  For most people, the dynamicism is
> just more rope to hang themselves (just as the fact that variable
> references aren't checked until you use them).

Can we expect variable declarations a few minor releases from
now, then?  That would presumably be consistent with the new
focus on protecting typical users from themselves.


> > "typical" code :).  Most 'typical' python code could probably be written
> > in Java without much difference except a little more typing.
>
> Exactly.  But people still choose Python because there's less typing!

In two senses of the word 'typing', too -- both the one that's about
keyboards, and the one that's about declaring variable's types:-).


> > It's when you get to the boundary conditions -- adding attributes
> > dynamically, reflection, reloading, deploying, porting -- that's
> > where Python starts to shine.
>
> And all I'm trying to do is to make those things safer.  A chainsaw is
> a great tool -- and also very dangerous.  Should we forbid the use of
> chainsaws?  Of course not.  Should we try to make them safer by adding
> protective devices?  Of course we should!

"Of course" as long as the extra devices don't significantly interfere
with the tools' previous strengths in terms of cost and power.  When
the significant interference is there, there is no "of course" about it --
it becomes a highly problematical trade-off.


Alex





From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Fri Aug 24 13:59:20 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:59:20 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
In-Reply-To: <iUkh7.10906$x84.3046479@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241145010.10494-100000@bms>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Chris Farley wrote:
> Bruce Sass <bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Chris Farley wrote:
>
> >> Does this mean I can't distribute just the .DLL, and that I need to
> >> distribute the entire non-commercial version of Qt? Ack!
>
> > You should be able to handle it the same way GPLed software
> > distributors do... make separate binary and source packages, have both
> > available so your users can get to the source they want it.
>
> Except, the 'non-commercial' edition of Qt for Windows is not distributed
> under a GPL-compatible license (unlike the X11 version of Qt).

Right, but the GPL has the restriction that source must be made
available... if you are distributing via a website just put the Qt
stuff you are obligated to distribute on the site, in a separate
package, just like the distributors of GPLed stuff do with the source
they must distribute.

> It *sounds* like they want you to be able to develop free (as in free
> beer) software; they go so far as to insist that you may 'include an
> executable version of your software'. My software won't actually execute
> without qt-mt230nc.dll, so I assume it's okay to include it.
> However, I would prefer to not distribute the 'entire package', which I
> take to mean as the entire Qt Non-Commercial Edition, which includes,
> among other things, Qt-Designer, API documentation, etc.

If TrollTech wants you to make all that stuff available, then you
really have little choice except to make it available... but I doubt
anyone will insist you package it up in the same file a your app.

> Of course, I can't find *any* examples of free Windows Qt distributed as
> binaries.

Too new for that (everyone is watching to see what you do ;).


- Bruce




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Aug  9 18:12:31 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:12:31 -0400
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
Message-ID: <Prwc7kKkXEIE092yn@bellatlantic.net>                

Grant Griffin wrote:
|Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are presumably more
|suited to being appended), but then I realized that I didn't know how to write
|the contents of a list to a file as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a
|simple way to do that: what is it?

''.join(lst)         # Python 2.0+
string.join(lst,'')  # Python 1.4+ (or something)

In expanded form:

   def gen_sectors3():
       print 'Generating (Version 3)...',
       lst = []
       for i in xrange(65536):
           lst.append(chr(i & 0xFF))
       for i in xrange(65536):
           lst.append(chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF))
       print 'done'
       return ''.join(lst)

I haven't benched it--or even run it--but this will probably even beat
'gen_sectors2()'.

Yours, Lulu...



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 04:03:31 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:03:31 +0200
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org> <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <9ldakm01ioq@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Peter Caven" <p.caven at ieee.org> wrote in message
news:5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125 at news1.busy1.on.home.com...
    ...
>         l = []
>         f = l.append
>         m = math.sin
>         for i in range(10):
>             f(m(i))
    ...
> Unless I'm missing something fundamental, if the compiler can be made
smart
> enough to know where to put TRACK_OBJECT and UNTRACK_OBJECT then why can't
> it do the code transformation as above?

It's very hard for the compiler to prove that this transformation does
not alter the semantics -- specifically that neither f nor m alter what
l.append and math.sin should resolve to!

Consider the following silly code:

import math
realsin = math.sin
def blah(f):
    print 'blah!',f
    math.sin = realsin
math.sin = blah

for i in range(10):
    print math.sin(i)

C:\Code>python aa.py
blah! 0
None
0.841470984808
0.909297426826
0.14112000806
-0.756802495308
-0.958924274663
-0.279415498199
0.656986598719
0.989358246623
0.412118485242

Now, if the compiler hoisted math.sin out of the loop, it would
alter the semantics to printing "blah!" then None every time.

Now, here I've placed all the code inline so it may look like
the compiler COULD deduce that this math.sin is peculiar --
but that's a rather unusual case.

So, if Python's dynamic semantics are to stay untouched, any
caching or hoisting of method resolution MUST track potential
modifications.  Of course, the antecedent of this hypothetical
sentence is pretty iffy -- but, one COULD construct a case.

Say that instead of math.sin you're calling mymod.bigfun,
and this function needs to do very different work the very
first time it's called, e.g. just-in-time loading of some big
data table to use for interpolation; rather than weighing down
every call with an if to test if the table is already loaded, the
function could perhaps rebind its name to a slimmer function
after it's done loading the interpolation table.

Python's current highly-dynamic nature has its pluses as
well as its minuses.  SOME of the dynamic aspects are going
away in future releases, but it's still uncertain exactly which
ones, and SOME of them will (one may hope) remain.  Thus,
the compiler needs to do more work for optimization, when
compared to a compiler for a less-dynamic language.  The
idea of tracking-opcodes seems to me a brilliant compromise
between expending a LOT of work on the compiler, to enable
it to infer what changes and when, and just giving up on
optimization in the vast majority of cases, where Python is
just too dynamic to allow optimization without tracking.


Alex





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 23 22:29:46 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 22:29:46 -0400
Subject: sys._exit()
References: <mailman.998520634.27371.python-list@python.org> <998544414.810105@yabetcha.drizzle.com> <uk7zuqxnw.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <9m41v7$hcc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <uitfeur51.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> I am not clear on what you mean here.  Your parenthetic observation
> about fork and pipe is right, but I would say it shows that the parent
> is safe from the child:  "using the other set of handles" means each
> reads from the descriptors closed by the other - which obviously didn't
> make the descriptors invalid!  A fork certainly can't close anything
> in its parent.

Yeah, you're right - must have been a brain spasm.  Descriptors are in
fact duplicated in a fork, and not just blindly copied.

(Makes me begin to be concerned that I've been stuck in Windows land
 too long)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 01:45:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:45:16 +0200
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from ENGSOL
References: <mailman.997066209.23085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9klau302jjo@enews4.newsguy.com>

<fleet at teachout.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.997066209.23085.python-list at python.org...
>
> I think I'm hung up on the substitution thing again.  If I wanted to name
this 'show.py' and
> be able to use 'python show.py math' on the command line - how do I get
"import sys.argv[1]"
> to work.  (and I would already have imported 'sys.')  I tried 'eval()'
without success - kept
> getting "invalid syntax" although the proper string was shown.

modobj = __import__(sys.argv[1])

imports the module named by sys.argv[1] and places a reference to
the resultin module object in variable modobj.

So, the loop:

> >for x in dir(os):

becomes:
    for x in dir(modobj):

and so on.


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug 14 11:44:34 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:44:34 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Python-Dev] Proposed PEP: Optimizing Global Variable and
 Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <15225.7034.183197.921760@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108141936490.17591-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>Let me know if that doesn't address your concerns.

Well, I just think that probably interpreter could
optimize by just IMPLICITLY making caching of global
references, like in this (current) optimization trick:

import os    # for constants

def f(x, y, z,   # normal atts
      cached_os_O_NONBLOCK=os.O_NONBLOCK,   # optimization trick
      cached ....
     )

    # here we use os.O_NONBLOCK, but interpreter uses
    # local _names_ and thus fast lookup.

That is, instead of tracking, simple implicit
localizing could be used, or not?

Only if the interpreter will be capable of determining which
references to objects need caching...

(I am not sure if ANY object could be FAST_LOADED.
I think, that memory is flat and thus this is the case.)

(Probably, I misunderstood the whole PEP and this is exactly what
is being proposed ;-)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Monday, August 13, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "I distinctly remember forgetting that." _/




From spamtrash2 at softhome.net  Sat Aug 11 18:38:26 2001
From: spamtrash2 at softhome.net (Taradino)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:38:26 +0200
Subject: Creating Irc Client
References: <I8mc7.5005$Ke7.326747@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <arcbntgvj4vsrc1in4ouc1el2mm1ma1fnv@4ax.com>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:04:10 -0400, "Relfx" <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I am trying to find as much information as poossible right now so i can
>build a python irc client what should be created first the interface? Or
>should all the programming be done first.
>
> relfx
>
>

I'm working on an IRC Client too, just for learning Python a little
bit better, and I am starting with just a class for connecting and
sending all the messages according to RFC1459, then I'll build a
console for using the program, and I'll guess I'll start with the GUI
then.


From eberkain at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 31 12:08:27 2001
From: eberkain at earthlink.net (eber kain)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 09:08:27 -0700
Subject: Writeing new files
References: <mailman.999230567.4210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b5f84cf8.0108310808.78d4a8f1@posting.google.com>

> Create() is coming out of Blender.Draw.
> 
> I've downloaded Blender and am trying to look at the problem, but it doesn't
> seem to work on my system very well.
> 
> Eber, grab the following file:
> 
>   http://www.blender.nl/resource/python/blends/console.zip
> 
> Open the file, erase the contents of the top window, and put this in its
> place:
> 
> ---
> import Blender
> from Blender.Draw import *
> 
> print 'test'
> name=Create('Name')
> print 'Name'
> print Name
> ---
> 
> Then play it and report back.

OK, as is it would not run, and returns an error

no variable named Name in line 7

if I change Name to name then it runs and prints this

test
Name
'Name'

I dont doubt that the problem is with Create, but there is no easy way
to get to it seeing how blender is just an exe with no external files.

For now ill just use

file = Open('name.btv',"w")

and rename the file manually after its created


From jason_wisher at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 29 14:34:15 2001
From: jason_wisher at hotmail.com (Jason Wisher)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:34:15 -0700
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com> <mailman.999003461.10891.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5517632f.0108291034.72a5ea2e@posting.google.com>

> If you're looking for a stable name, check out dyndns.org or other services
> like it that allow you to associate stable names with dynamic addresses.
> Also, hopefully your server won't get much use.  @home is an asymmetric
> connection.  Transfer rates from your machine to the net will be about 10x
> slower than rates to your machine.

Also check out DNS2Go (http://www.dns2go.com); free, reliable, and
much cooler than dyndns.

-Jason


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 15:41:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:41:51 +0200
Subject: Checking for attribute in the current module with getattr( )
References: <k0nvgjzhetl.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <9kpgfb02ve1@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Joakim Hove" <hove at phys.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:k0nvgjzhetl.fsf at metropolis.phys.ntnu.no...
    ...
>     if hasattr(???,"func1"):   # <- Problematic line!
>         print "This module defines a function \"func1\""
>     else:
>         print "No function \"func1\" defined"
>
> Now, as indicated I don't really know what object to send in to the
> hasattr function, indicated with "???" - is what I'm trying to do
> possible, and how should I in case do it?

import sys
thismodule = sys.modules[__name__]
if hasattr(thismodule, 'func1'):
    # and so on


Alex





From gorny at hobbiton.org  Tue Aug 28 13:03:59 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:03:59 +0200
Subject: standard funcs in ext. module..
Message-ID: <Nbvi7.45249$Vs4.383777@zonnet-reader-1>

> You forgot to increment the reference count for None, which creates a
> problem at termination time.
>
> See http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html
>
> hth,
> /steffen

Allright, I get that point now. But after a look on xxmodule.c contained
in the pythonsrc distribution I've noticed the following functions:

static void Xxo_dealloc(XxoObject *self)
{
 Py_XDECREF(self->x_attr);
 PyObject_Del(self);
}

static PyObject *
Xxo_getattr(XxoObject *self, char *name)
{
 if (self->x_attr != NULL) {
  PyObject *v = PyDict_GetItemString(self->x_attr, name);
  if (v != NULL) {
   Py_INCREF(v);
   return v;
  }
 }
 return Py_FindMethod(Xxo_methods, (PyObject *)self, name);
}

static int
Xxo_setattr(XxoObject *self, char *name, PyObject *v)
{
 if (self->x_attr == NULL) {
  self->x_attr = PyDict_New();
  if (self->x_attr == NULL)
   return -1;
 }
 if (v == NULL) {
  int rv = PyDict_DelItemString(self->x_attr, name);
  if (rv < 0)
   PyErr_SetString(PyExc_AttributeError,
           "delete non-existing Xxo attribute");
  return rv;
 }
 else
  return PyDict_SetItemString(self->x_attr, name, v);
}

these are not mentiond in the methods passed to Py_InitModule().
In what circumstances calls the python interpreter these functions?
Just when an getattr and a setattr() call are made to the Xxo-module?
eg.
>>> import Xxo
>>> getattr(Xxo, 'foobar')   <---- calling Xxo_getattr()???


Greets,
Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 05:15:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:15:33 +0200
Subject: dumb newbie list question
References: <m3g0and5z2.fsf@beethoven.longhands.org> <3B80427F.53E233FB@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <9lqkfk010m@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Dietmar Lang" <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message
news:3B80427F.53E233FB at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de...
>
> Hi!
>
> > Maybe this is a naive/stupid question, but is there anyway to grow a
list to an
> > arbitrary size?  Eg.:
> >
> > >>> l = [1, 2, 3]
> > >>> l[5] = "x"
>
> I believe l.append("x") ist what you're looking for.

That would make l[3] be 'x', rather than l[5] as the original poster
asks.  To get 'x' into l[5], something must be placed in l[3] and
l[4] as well, e.g.:

def set_extending(alist, index, value, default=None):
    extras = index - len(alist)
    if extras >= 0:
        alist.extend(extras*[default]+[value])
    else:
        alist[index] = value

Now set_extending(l, 5, 'x') would work as desired.  One might
use this idea in the __setitem__ method of a UserList, or, in
Python 2.2, in that of a class that inherists from list.


Alex





From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Wed Aug 29 07:49:13 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:49:13 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net>

So, python simply is the best language ever.
Ok i heard engough. It's time to get python for me. You just can buy  it in
a shop, can't you? Are all the special thingies included? Nwa, i'm just
going to try it! I guess you'll see me here a lot the coming months.




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 06:24:15 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:24:15 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <slrn9os305.3el.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <9ml48h01pjd@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Hammerquist" <tim at vegeta.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:slrn9os305.3el.tim at vegeta.ath.cx...
    ...
> > IIRC VB (yuk!) can do something similar. But then, VB is possibly the
> > *worst* kind of advocacy possible.
>
> Yes. VB functions (that return a value) _do_ require parens around the
> arguments. VB subs (that *don't* return a value) do _not_ require parens.
> OTOH, in this case, the parse just assumes everything from the sub name
> to EOL are arguments. Very little ambiguity.

Note that this is one of the places where Visual Basic is
undergoing backwards-incompatible changes (most of which,
funny enough, move VB in the direction of making it a little
bit closer to Python!-): in VB7 (aka VB.NET), parentheses
_will_ be needed (I assume/guess there will be migration-
help tools that rewrite existing VB6 sources -- this one is
easy compared to many other of the incompatible changes).


Alex






From spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk  Thu Aug 23 06:53:18 2001
From: spam at melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:53:18 +0200
Subject: simple ping program
References: <mailman.998553514.21024.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uan2m9.aq2.ln@127.0.0.1>

noprianto <opennopri at yahoo.com> wrote:
 : hello all,

 : Does anyone know how to make a very simple ping
 : program, with option to set the packet size....

 : please...

http://www.python.org/~jeremy/ping.tar.gz


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik  http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__         garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk       |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Fri Aug 31 17:45:08 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 21:45:08 GMT
Subject: Is 0 > None?? (fwd)
References: <mailman.999290628.20638.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9p01b4.ip2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:32:28 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> pisze:

> Don't forget about Unicode strings, which have the same problem.

And I would definitely make the default encoding not ASCII but the
default for the current platform/locale, despite I've heard it would
be a bad Idea (because of non-determinism).

On Unices (except FreeBSD) it can be found using nl_langinfo(CODESET).

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 04:01:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:01:24 +0200
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Phil Tomson" <ptkwt at shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673 at e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com...
    ...
> Questions for the Ruby community to ponder: What sorts of features do we
> need that might be unique to Ruby?  [One that comes to mind: the ability
> to extend an existing class.]  For the

In what sense is this "unique to Ruby"?  The following works in Python:

class Existing:
    def one(self): print 'one'

anInstance = Existing()

def two(self): print 'two'
Existing.two = two

# and now you can call anInstance.two(), having
# extended existing class Existing "after the
# fact" -- already-created instances also get
# to use the 'extensions' to the class.

> most part, I think our needs are very
> similar to Python's.

It seems to me this similarity fully extends to the issue you've
mentioned.  I don't know enough Ruby to know if it's quite as
dynamic as Python (in Python I can, on the fly, change the class
to which a given instance belongs to, add and delete methods
from an existing class, add or override a method as defined by
a class in a specific instnace only, change a class's bases...) --
any backend able to fully support all of these manipulations
should likely provide sufficient functionality for whatever
other dynamic aspects (if any) Python itself lacks (I can't
think of any, myself, but that may be a failure of imagination:-).

I know that Ruby slings around unnamed codeblocks, but I suspect
that's just a syntax issue (not affecting the backend) wrt the
Python equivalent, which is slinging around _named_ codeblocks
(also known as function-objects, method-objects, and other
callables).  There might be scoping issues, perhaps: in Python,
any 'codeblock' [actually always a function, even when unnamed,
as in a lambda-form] has its own scope, and can access *but
NOT re-bind* variables in enclosing scopes [it can rebind
variables in its _global_ scope using the global statement];
if Ruby (like, e.g., scheme) lets a function rebind variables
in enclosing blocks (functions), that may be something a
back-end needs to provide for, that is extra for Ruby wrt Python.


Alex





From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Fri Aug  3 09:35:29 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:35:29 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk> <PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
Message-ID: <3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk>


Charlie Clark wrote:

> Mark Robinson wrote:
> 
>> Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the ++/--
>> operator out of python. It is perhaps my only irritation with python,
>> it is just that I hate to have to write:
>> 
>> x = x + 1
> 
> no you don't.

I did, ya know

> 
>> when my whole being just yearns to type
>> 
>> x++
> 
> control yourself. Why should you want to type that? It's not necessary
> in Python's loops which automatically increment for you.
> 
Fair point, I guess that was the favorite hang out of the ++ operator, 
but not the only one. I guess it is getting lazy with not having to do
so much work in my for loops that makes me complain about it when I need
it in a while loop, thats when ++ would have been nice, but as has been
pointed out, I was simply ignorant of += having been implemented now.

> I like Python because when I read
> the discussions I understand why things are or are not there. 

I especially agree, makes me think a bit about how I use things too. Who 
knows before you know it I might actually write something I wasn't 
ashamed to show ;). Thats why I intend to carry on picking everyones 
brain on here.

Blobby




From patio87 at aol.com  Sun Aug 12 03:04:38 2001
From: patio87 at aol.com (Patio87)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 07:04:38 GMT
Subject: Newbee question here.
References: <mailman.997583602.15499.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010812030438.00855.00003992@ng-cl1.aol.com>

Thank you alot for your feedback on my question, but I dont really understand
mouch of what you aid. Can you say that in stupid languge so i will understand.
Im very new to python and programming its self. I have had python for about two
days and have all ready read a whole tutorial but if you could repeat what you
said in a much easier way I would MUCH apreciate it Thanks


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 06:16:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:16:52 +0200
Subject: passing FILE pointers to a non-MSVC++ compiled extension type???
References: <e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l0cgv0229h@enews4.newsguy.com>

"doug" <doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e71960c5.0108091604.3b2f589f at posting.google.com...
> hello,
>
> bottomline:
> is there someway i can write an extenstion type's print method so that
> instead of fprintf-ing to the FILE* directly, i call back to some
> python c api function with the c string of what i want to print???

Yes, PyFile_WriteString should serve your purposes (you'll pass
your C-like string as a char* first argument, a PyObject* for the
relevant Python file-like object as the second argument -- there's
a bug in the docs, they mention an unexplained third 'flags'
argument, but fileobject.h and fileobject.c show there is nothing
of the kind -- I've just submitted a correction to sourceforge).


Alex





From paul at boddie.net  Thu Aug  2 05:10:42 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 02:10:42 -0700
Subject: Changing the Division Operator -- PEP 238, rev 1.12
References: <mailman.996263475.24304.python-list@python.org> <23891c90.0108010342.22378ae3@posting.google.com> <cpn15jydno.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108020110.40b340c7@posting.google.com>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote in message news:<cpn15jydno.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>...
> I've added this to the PEP now:
> 
>     Q. When will Python 3.0 be released?

Thanks!

> paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:
> > I feel that most of the "noise" on this issue could have been avoided
> > had the intentions of the developers been communicated clearly from
> > the start.
> 
> Much of the initial communication was done by people who hadn't read
> the PEP and misstated the plan (e.g. omitting the transitional period
> or the separate int division operator).  Then others started
> complaining about the poorly laid-out plan -- again without reading
> the PEP.  Typical usenet style -- I don't know how we could have
> avoided this.

Well, I wasn't just talking about people's responses to the plan. The
PEP in question wasn't exactly verbose about how the plan would be
executed, and the subsequent discussions did manage to raise a number
of valid issues. It may be clear to the Python development team how
this thing would be executed, but it certainly wasn't obvious to many.
Since we're discussing additions to the PEP now, it's clear that the
document always needed improving, and it would still be nice if the
document gave a better treatment of the subject of "migration".

> > To see a patch for some radical new functionality being
> > issued against an upcoming release, with only scant justification for
> > its inclusion and little *evident* consideration for the damage
> > possible to existing code, is almost guaranteed to scare and anger
> > people.
> 
> Again, you're acting on hearsay.  Had you tried or even just studied
> the patch that I initially posted, you would have noticed that the
> default semantics weren't changed by the patch.

I read the description of the patch and the PEP document, although I
may have skimmed the PEP too quickly on my first reading, but my point
is that people aren't solely influenced by the current state of
affairs, but also by what is supposedly the intended next step.
Personally, I felt that a major change to the language was just about
to be slipped in without no obvious way of me having known about it
before; and I do take the time to read comp.lang.python on a daily
basis.

> > I can see the benefits of making these changes in the context of a
> > numeric system overhaul, but what seemed to be communicated was, "This
> > is going to change because I never liked it in the first place and
> > can't bear to wake up every morning knowing that it's there." This
> > doesn't justify some of the comments made on the subject, but it does
> > justify the sense of alarm expressed by a number of people.
> 
> Words put in my mouth.

Not really, since I said that this was what "seemed" to be
communicated. ;-) Perhaps I didn't get to read the most official and
crucial messages on the subject, but I seem to remember that only
after the other numeric system PEPs were cited as justification for
this change were people happier about the motivations for it. It
appeared that earlier justifications centred upon your regret for
having introduced the present division semantics in the first place.

In short, and despite the logistical problems that the PEP presents to
Python coders, the most unfortunate aspect of this whole affair has
been the way it has been communicated.

"Beware of the leopard!"-ly-y'rs, Paul


From lorill at caramail.com  Wed Aug 22 05:57:09 2001
From: lorill at caramail.com (Vincent Fiack)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:57:09 +0200
Subject: Python & IRC : Is it a fantasy or reality
References: <rCyg7.3606$zk4.319925@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <rc07ot498mvpnu152cvd74p8n8k14ptbid@4ax.com>

There is a free irc bot writtent in python here :
http://albanox.ath.cx/cgi-bin/albabot/index.py




From andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 23:59:02 2001
From: andy_todd at spam.free.yahoo.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:59:02 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a> <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <mailman.997300936.7249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns90F88E98EDD95atodddexterpinioncom@203.2.194.51>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in <mailman.997300936.7249.python-
list at python.org>:

>
>I wrote:
>
>   I will create a page in my Python Bits page and add links to any text
>   editor/Python pages that people send me.
>
>Jump-started at
>
>    http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/editors.html
>

Great page Skip. A possible addition to the Vim section is Vim online 
(http://vim.sourceforge.net/) described as ".. a central place for the Vim 
community to store useful Vim tips and tools."

Regards,
Andy
-- 
Content free posts a speciality


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 13:06:49 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:06:49 +0100
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk> <oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> <mailman.997279753.25222.python-list@python.org> <0Qcc7.6096$qm1.59395@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3B7171A9.8050405@herts.ac.uk>

Thanks Steve, I get the gist now




From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 13:59:19 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:59:19 +0200
Subject: popen3 and ssh
References: <3B73E5C6.2080200@f2s.com> <j4r8uidih9.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7026065.rYoqx4rD5t@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> schrub:

> ssh opens the controlling terminal (/dev/tty) directly to read the
> password. I think there is no way to tell ssh to read the password
> from stdin. If you want to use ssh locally, you need to create a
> pseudo-terminal. Depending on your operating system, this may be an
> arbitrarily complex procedure, or not possible at all. With some luck
> (e.g. on Linux), you may have the functions posix.openpty and
> posix.forkpty to do that.

May be you can also find a way to use the authentication agents for 
your purpose.

But: The real ssh'ish way would be to use Key-Based authentication, 
then no password is needed at all.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From spex66 at web.de  Fri Aug 31 06:45:49 2001
From: spex66 at web.de (spex66)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:45:49 +0200
Subject: Can I build a dictonary with a list-comprehension?
Message-ID: <9mnpst$198$1@news2.iabg.de>

Hi there,

I ask mysel, if there is a tricky (or simple) way to build a dictonary with
the list-comprehesion-style:

[x for x in y]

thanks for any hint

Peter
(=PA=)




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Aug 21 05:17:01 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:17:01 +0300
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org> <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org> <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.998368890.32346.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

| I think you're missing the point.  It doesn't matter if gettimeofday is tied
| to an atomic clock at NIST.  It's measuring the wrong quantity.

there is only a difference if the machine is doing something else at
the same time or blocking. the former is easy to avoid and the latter
is easy to make out in the profiler output.

in exchange you get 10000 times as good resolution.

| Perhaps not, but Python is striving to present a time module this provides
| some cross-platform semantic consistency.  time.time is there to measure
| wall clock time.  Making time.clock measure CPU time on one platform and
| wall clock time on another makes it worthless unless you know the details of
| the various systems at your disposal (and if you ever want to distribute
| applications, to the various systems at your clients' disposal).

time.clock() already measures cpu time on one platform (badly, on
unix) and wall clock time on another (windows), no?

okay, not strictly wall clock time but cpu clock cycles.  but
still something that doesn't stop running when you block or something
else runs.

  -- erno


From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 30 07:49:46 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:49:46 +0200
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <9mkqj9017al@enews1.newsguy.com> <slrn.pl.9os3n2.gsc.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <9ml98q0234u@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <qrczak at knm.org.pl> wrote in message
news:slrn.pl.9os3n2.gsc.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda...
> Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:39:21 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:
>
> > And of course there's no problem interpreting whether:
> >
> >     blobber plikke
> >
> > means:
> >
> >     blobber(plikke)
> >
> > or:
> >
> >     blobber(plikke())
>
> BTW, from Perl sources:

How delightful -- and that doesn't even consider the specific
issue of passing in a function object as an argument to
another by just naming it.  "Just Do What I Mean, Darnit"
is definitely *NOT* what I want in the languages I use!-)


Alex





From joonas at olen.to  Thu Aug 16 16:13:01 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:13:01 +0300
Subject: Creating EXE file from Python
References: <KWSe7.87478$sM.23388372@news2.rdc1.ab.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B7C294D.B521CC3B@olen.to>

Ray wrote:
> 
> First, I am new to python.  I like to know if there is anyway to create
> standalone executable from *.py ? and How?

py2exe is what you need.
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 18:49:09 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:49:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sys._exit()
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010822183825.02c21030@mail.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221848160.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:

> The 2.1 docs say:
>
> -----------------------
> _exit(n)
>
> Exit to the system with status n, without calling cleanup handlers,
> flushing stdio buffers, etc. Availability: Unix, Windows.
>
> Note: the standard way to exit is sys.exit(n). _exit() should normally only
> be used in the child process after a fork().
> -----------------------
>
> What would be the motivation for a child process of a fork to _exit()
> instead of exit()? e.g., why wouldn't the child wish to cleanup handlers,
> flush stdio buffers, etc.? Does anyone use _exit()?
>
> -Chuck

Because then it would step all over the data of the parent, if it is still
running.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 29 13:24:03 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:24:03 -0700
Subject: programme call with popen
References: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8D2533.9DDDF419@ccvcorp.com>

Christian Schleippmann wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> I use the popen2 function to initialize a variable with the output of
> a programme.

....

>
> >>>import popen2,string
> >>>fin, fout = popen2.popen2("[programmecall]")
> #HERE HAPPENS SOMETHING I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, python "waits"
>
> >>>fin.read() #this works fine again

Here, fin is the input *to* your program, and fout is the output *from*
your program.  If the program you're calling doesn't require any input,
you can disregard fin.  In order to get the output from your program,
you'd need to call:

>>> myoutput = fout.read()

Note that this will block until the program has finished running.  If the
program will take some time, you might want to poll in a loop, like
so....

>>> while 1:
>>>     line = fout.readline()
>>>     if line = '':
>>>         break
>>>     DoSomethingWith(line)

You can also read character-by-character (using fout.read(1)) or
whatever, just as you would read any file object.  Just keep in mind that
an empty string ( '' ) indicates the "end-of-file", and any read will
block if there's no output available (until EOF is reached).  Also, don't
forget to close *both* your file handles when you're done with them.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International





From aahz at panix.com  Wed Aug 15 01:27:23 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:27:23 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997728501.21397.python-list@python.org> <874rrbo6bl.fsf@ghostwheel.dhis.net> <etdvgjqu16k.fsf@w20-575-7.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9ld17r$lsg$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <etdvgjqu16k.fsf at w20-575-7.mit.edu>, Alex  <new_name at mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> meanwhile-perl6-is-looking-better-all-the-time'ly-yrs,
>
>Is perl 6 available for download somewhere?

Is joke.  Perl6 is still in the design stages; alpha is probably a year
or two (maybe even three) away.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I used to have a .sig but I found it impossible to please everyone..."  --SFJ


From a11w at SoftHome.net  Thu Aug 16 04:45:32 2001
From: a11w at SoftHome.net (Jiba)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:45:32 +0200
Subject: Debugging Multi-Threaded Python Programs
References: <270c68fe.0108151628.42f78be7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B7B882C.A2366EA7@SoftHome.net>

Alan Green wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to demonstrate Python debuggers to a colleague. One
> thing that everyone here is keen to see is debugging of multi-threaded
> programs.
> 
> The program below is what I have been using to test - the idea is to
> catch a the 'naughty' thread modifying a shared global value. So far,
> I've only been able to set breakpoints on the program's main thread.
> Breakpoints on other threads do not work.

Just replace your global value by an attrib of a global object :

class MyClass: pass
SHARED_GLOBAL_OBJECT = MyClass()
SHARED_GLOBAL_OBJECT.value = 10

and use SHARED_GLOBAL_OBJECT.value instead of SHARED_GLOBAL_VALUE.

Then you can change the SHARED_GLOBAL_OBJECT class :
class MyClass:
	def __setattr__(self, name, value):
		print "value changed !"
		self.__dict__[name] = value

You will be noticed for any change on SHARED_GLOBAL_OBJECT !

Jiba


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug  7 05:47:30 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:47:30 +0200
Subject: python + mysql on slackware 8.0
References: <mailman.997170970.24402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ifdok9.gi3.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:01:39 +0300, nikinakof wrote:
>Is there anyone can help me, configuring python + mysql on slackware 8.0 ?

It's been a time that I was masochistic enough to use Slackware (7.0 at the
time) ;-) But it doesn't look too difficult, as Python and MySQL are already
included in Slackware 8.0.

The next thing you'll want is the MySQLdb database module that's available at
http://dustman.net/andy/python/MySQLdb

If you have a specific problem, just come back and ask.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://highqualdev.com              public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, [chr(ord(x)^42) for x in list('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')])


From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Tue Aug 21 10:00:35 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:00:35 -0400
Subject: reducing if statements and error handling
In-Reply-To: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLEEKHCEAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

One way to validate this is using the following pattern:

def f(n):
	n=int(n)				# Will throw ValueError if not convertable.
	...

This would then accept integers, and anything that can be converted to an
int.  This should be used somewhat judiciously, however, as it will accept a
lot of different types of input.  If what you want is to make sure that n is
definitely an int then the following will do the trick:

def f(n):
	assert type(n) is type(0)
	...

Which will raise an AssertionError if n is not an integer.  If you prefer a
negative return value then:

def f(n):
	if type(n) is not type(0): return -1
	...
	# Returns 0/None if success...

Of these I personally generally prefer the second (assert type(n) is
type(0)) since it doesn't require the caller to understand "magic" return
values and ensures a solid interface between the caller and the called.

Just some thoughts...
Rich

[original message deleted to conserve bits]




From aahz at panix.com  Thu Aug  9 12:21:54 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 09:21:54 -0700
Subject: Python version coexistence on WIndows
References: <mailman.997300453.6014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kudb2$klo$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.997300453.6014.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>So, basically, we've got two full installers, duplicated under "if
>Admin/else" blocks, with a few additional "if Win2K" warts.  This should be
>transparent to you.  The new backup/rollback facilities did come (almost)
>for free with Wise 8.14, and work great.  The Install.log is more detailed
>than before, and that came for free too.  Everything else was a mere matter
>of programming (and hundreds of reboots <wink>).

No reinstalls?  I'm impressed.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"i-write-best-when-the-audience-is-me-ly y'rs  - tim"


From nas at python.ca  Thu Aug 23 12:08:48 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:08:48 -0700
Subject: How does Python (v2.1.1) handle parameter passing? By value or by reference?
In-Reply-To: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>; from r.vanwees@chello.nl on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 09:57:43PM +0000
References: <rVVg7.151714$z11.2991289@amsnews02.chello.com>
Message-ID: <20010823090848.B10583@glacier.fnational.com>

Rob van Wees wrote:
> As a newbie to Python, I'm having trouble finding out how the interpreter
> handles parameters that are passed to functions. Sometimes they seem to be
> handled as values and sometimes as references.
> 
> The Python documentation does not seem to answer my question. Could any of
> you help me?

Reset your brain:

    http://effbot.org/guides/python-objects.htm

Cheers,

  Neil



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 31 13:32:48 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:32:48 -0400
Subject: Python descendant to Perl?
In-Reply-To: <4e2ddb70.0108310753.57cb4b49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDMLJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Jonas Bengtsson]
> Is Python a descendant to Perl? I thought it was the other way around.
> http://www.clug.org/presentations/oodemo/oofamily.html

Perl's OO features were added later in Perl's life, and Larry Wall studied
Python's object model closely before designing Perl's (they have a lot in
common under the covers!).

WRT the diagram, Smalltalk really had scant *direct* influence on Python; it
would be better if it showed Python inheriting from Modula3 instead (which
latter should surely be *somewhere* on the diagram; and Java should descend
in part from Modula3 too).




From Irina.Kotlova at lhsl.com  Fri Aug 31 09:21:37 2001
From: Irina.Kotlova at lhsl.com (Irina Kotlova)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 06:21:37 -0700
Subject: debug Python interpreter work with the debug swig dll
Message-ID: <97592a5.0108310521.3c226a62@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

Could anyone advise how to make debug Python interpreter "python_d" to
import the previously built dll with a module? The module is the
interface file "employee.i" with the simple C++ class inside. The dll
build procedure consists of swig generating wrappers for Python and
then compiling and linking of a class along with the wrappers.

That scheme works fine in Release mode with "python" interpreter, but
doesn't in Debug mode. When I start "python_d" and then do import, I
receive:

C:\>D:\Python21Sources\Python-2.1\PCbuild\python_d
Adding parser accelerators ...
Done.
Python 2.1 (#15, Aug 30 2001, 14:27:06) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import employee
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named employee
[5398 refs]

PYTHONPATH environment variable includes the path where "employee.dll"
resides.

Help is very appreciated. Thank you,
Irina Kotlova


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Fri Aug 31 09:54:09 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:54:09 +0200
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
Message-ID: <3B944EAC@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> =====
>class now:
>    ....
>    ....
>    ....
>n=now()
>s='n'
>print s
>
>
>the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>
>
>what means?????

I'm assuming you mean the backquote ` here. `x` is a shorthand for repr(x), 
which returns the "representation" of object x. This is a string that contains 
information about the object, or in some cases a string that can be run 
through eval() to return a copy of the object (e.g. the reprs of lists and 
dicts). This is also what the interactive interpreter shows. E.g.

>>> 2
2
>>> repr(2)
'2'
>>> a = [1,2,3]
>>> a
[1, 2, 3]
>>> repr(a)
'[1, 2, 3]'
>>> eval(repr(a))
[1, 2, 3]

For classes, it returns a default value, as long as you don't define its 
__repr__ method:

>>> class Foo:
	def __init__(self, x):
		self.x = x
	def __repr__(self):
		return "I'm a happy class with value '%s'!" % self.x


>>> f = Foo(42)
>>> f
I'm a happy class with value '42'!
>>> repr(f)
"I'm a happy class with value '42'!"

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From bokr at accessone.com  Sat Aug 18 18:32:09 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:32:09 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <YBwf7.55343$MC1.18386642@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com> <3q5tnt8frcsm04at4d40mtnvt9p3avrkji@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b7ed79c.65084456@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:35:45 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote:

>
>>Could you add 'protocol' to the reserved keyword list?
>
>directive                I like this, as compilers need pragmas sometimes
>foreign                   What's this for?
>interface                I like this, too, but wonder what the argument is in
>                                 favor of _needing_ it
>static                      Would rather gouge my eyes out. We already have
>                                class- and module- level attributes. The only possible
>                                use for it is method- and function- level statics which are
>                                bad programming practice and "not very OO," imo.
>yield                      Misfortunate word for its evocation of thread semantics;
>                                Would have rather had "produce" or "result" or some such.
>protocol                What's this for?
>abstract                How is this necessary if we have interface?
>
>Personally I would like to add:
>
>declare, strict
>
>Perhaps I should write a PEP. :-)
>

It occurred to me that it might be good to be able to factor out
some kinds of information into a/some separate file/s.

For example, if you wanted to use 'strict' to indicate that a function
is not going to use some dynamic features of Python, there's several
ways to do it. One would be to introduce strict as a keyword modifying
'def foo x,y:'. Another might be to put 'strict foo foo_source_file_path'
in a project file and have the interpreter cache such info when it
starts up. This leaves the source clean. Or, for per-file meta info, you
could have foo.py and foo.met. If you did that, you could factor out
big additional docstrings, and help info, etc. also.

If you wanted a general purpose way of referring to a chunk of source
code in foo.py, there could be a span block that would do nothing
except identify its suite by a supplied name, e.g.,

span calcy: y = c0 + c1*x + c2*x**2 + c3*x**3

In another file you could then refer to it to indicate e.g. that
everything in calcy scope could be assumed floating point, and
globals could be assumed to have constant values, as in a config
file with a command per line, e.g., (for illustration only)
   meta calcy foo.py: const globals; all float

But 'span' would be transparent if there was no external info telling
the interpreter about calcy in that file. And it would always be
safe to eliminate the meta-data file, with possible speed/space sacrifice.
E.g., you could upgrade the interpreter and drop the file if the new version
didn't handle the previous kind of meta data. Plus you could have platform
dependent meta-data.

This is not fully thought out, but I wanted to (re?)introduce the concept of factoring
out non-semantic meta-info whose presence doesn't change the intended correct result
of the program, but may offer opportunities for optimization, extra validation,
etc. 'span' is inspired by the html tag. (Maybe another very similar word would
be more apt for Python? ;-) It's just a way to give a name to things that don't
already have one.

_______________________
Separate topic...

On a similar note, I've thought it might be nice to be able to have an unobtrusive
tagging convention in python comments to serve like anchors and links in html.
The idea is to make it easy to write CGI that presents code from source
and links back and forth with supporting html and/or other documentation.

All this would require is an easy to use convention, so in your source
you could write
   foo(x, y) # tricky! -- see ##foodoc#
or such, and maybe
   def foo(x, y):    ##:foodef#
as a target.

This would also be a way to signal intent to provide docs ;-)
  
##foodoc# would be easy to translate to
   <a href='foodoc.html'>##foodoc#</a>
and ##:foodef# to
   <a name='foodef'></a>
A link inside source to the latter would need a '#' in front, so maybe, e.g.,
   -- see code at ###foodef#
could become
   <a href='#foodef'>###foodef#</a>
in the CGI-served page. Links in html docs to code would use something like
    <a href='http://python.org/cgi-bin/src2html/foo.py#foodef'>See def in foo.py source!</a>
or relative versions of same, depending on how the whole context is entered.

The CGI would be pretty simple to do, I think.
Does anything like this already exist for Python?    


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug  8 23:41:08 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:41:08 -0400
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
In-Reply-To: <3B719793.134854C9@olen.to>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEJBLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Joonas Paalasmaa]
> Why doesn't python22a1 give members of a list with dir(list).
> See snippet below.
>
>
> C:\>python22
> Python 2.2a1 (#21, Jul 18 2001, 04:25:46) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> dir([])
> []
> >>>
> C:\>python20
> Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> dir([])
> ['append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop', 'remove',
>  'reverse', 'sort']

It's a peculiar side-effect of finally making sense <wink>.  Here from 2.1:

>>> class C:
...     def __init__(self, a):
...         self.a = a
...     def printa(self):
...         print self.a
...
>>> x = C(42)
>>> dir(x)  # no 'printa'!
['a']
>>>

That is, it's always been the case that dir(class_instance) didn't display
the methods of the class of which class_instance was an instance.  But
objects of builtin types were not instances of classes, so dir() did
something entirely different for them.  This is one consequence of the
infamous "type/class split":  objects of builtin types and objects of
user-defined classes act differently in subtle ways.  2.2 aims to repair
that.

In 2.2, the builtin types *are* classes, so in a funny sense dir() now acts
more like it always did than it ever did before <wink>.  Here from 2.2:

>>> dir([])
[]
>>> dir(type([]))
['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', '__delitem__', '__eq__',
 '__ge__', '__getattr__', '__getitem__', '__getslice__', '__gt__',
 '__iadd__', '__imul__', '__init__', '__le__', '__len__', '__lt__',
 '__mul__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__repr__', '__rmul__', '__setitem__',
 '__setslice__', 'append', 'count', 'extend', 'index', 'insert', 'pop',
 'remove', 'reverse', 'sort']
>>>

[] is now an instance of the list class, and has no interesting attributes
of its own.  So dir([]) has nothing to say.  But []'s *class* (type([]),
which is list) has many interesting attributes, and indeed dir(type([])) is
much more accurate about what they really are than was the special-case hack
used for dir([]) in 2.1 and earlier.

The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but the
change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be a bad
incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this reason I'm
going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().

although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Fri Aug 31 08:49:06 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:49:06 GMT
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <3b8f8792.4721937@news.t-online.de>

On 31 Aug 2001 11:33:52 GMT, Fred Pacquier <fredp at mygale.org.nospam>
wrote:

>how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?

def f(x):
    s,i = list(str(x)),3
    while i < len(s):
        s.insert(len(s)-i,',')
        i += 4
    return ''.join(s)

print f(24)
print f(24312)
print f(2431229082L)

will output
24
24,312
2,431,229,082



From Scott.Syms at pwgsc.gc.ca  Sun Aug 26 11:06:14 2001
From: Scott.Syms at pwgsc.gc.ca (Scott Syms)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:06:14 -0400
Subject: get mac/ physical address of network card with python
Message-ID: <314D2E9B29E4D11193EC0000F8060AEB05ADF096@mb-atl-001.atl.pwgsc.gc.ca>

Hi, folks-

Wondering if anyone knew how to grab the mac address of a network card from
within Python.

Tks

Scott Syms
Halifax, Nova Scotia



From adam at home.com  Wed Aug  8 10:53:16 2001
From: adam at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:53:16 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>

Hi pythoners,
	You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was modal.
Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get syntax
highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What more
could you want?  (Note:  I love Vim, please don't attack me for slightly
insulting Emacs, I do know that Emacs has a HUGE amount of useful
features)


-- 
     Two is not equal to three, not even for very large values of two.
               -- Gregory Propf

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug 29 20:26:45 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:26:45 -0400
Subject: Window NT: need to allow client to make system call via CGI script
References: <93d52e82.0108280835.1933ba58@posting.google.com> <9mhsps$2a133$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <93d52e82.0108290421.3008647a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ur8tugzp6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

TerryByrne1963 at yahoo.com (Terry Byrne) writes:

> Right now, users on our intranet (production managers at a publishing
> company) fill out an HTML form according to varying production needs.
> Based on their input, an existing Python CGI script builds a DOS batch
> file to run some time-consuming processes on the server.

If your Python CGI script is capable of opening up a file in the local
filesystem within which to write the DOS batch commands, then the odds
are good that you aren't completely security limited - or else you
wouldn't even be able to do that.

It would still help to know more about the environment (what actual
web server, etc...).  If it's IIS, you might try checking out your CGI
configuration and/or NTFS permission (if your filesystem is NTFS) on
the directory in question to see if you've enabled execute rights for
normal executables (and not just scripts).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Aug 14 10:08:31 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:08:31 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images
 in email sent with python.
In-Reply-To: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141756530.9742-200000@phd.fep.ru>

On 14 Aug 2001, Stephen wrote:
> in Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into
> the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they
> display when the recipient views the message.  Just how does one compose
> a message like that with Python may I ask?

   Though it looks like "embedding", it is really attachment. It is just a
special attachment, with IDs that referenced in main body, so viewr can
later find corresponding images. Not only M$ Outloose (how else do you call
this buggy virus-prone thingy), but any mailer that can display/send HTML
can embed images this way.
   Attached is a program that sends HTML with embeded images. It takes 4
mail parameters from command line, plus email addresses and reads HTML from
stdin. It parses HTML, download images from the Web (using urllib, of
course), and generates MIME message with main body (HTML) and attached
images. Attachments marked exactly the way you need: images in the HTML
marked with "cid", and attachments marked with Content-ID headers.
   Last time I tested it (about 3 years ago) all browsers displayed
generated HTML with embedded images: Netscape, M$ Mail, Outloose.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
-------------- next part --------------
#! /usr/local/bin/python -O

#
# mail-html: send MIME message with attached HTML (come from stdin)
# and GIFs (GIFs are retrieved by HTTP/FTP/etc)
# to addresses listed on command line
#
# Initial Author: Oleg Broytmann <phd at klondike.netskate.ru>
# $Id: mail-html,v 1.9 2000/01/17 11:16:17 ran Exp $
#


import sys, os, string
from sgmllib import SGMLParser

from mimetools import choose_boundary
from MimeWriter import MimeWriter

from StringIO import StringIO
import base64

import urllib
urllib._urlopener = urllib.URLopener()
from urllib import urlretrieve


def join_attrs(attrs):
   attr_list = []
   for attrname, value in attrs:
      attr_list.append('%s="%s"' % (attrname, string.strip(value)))

   if attr_list:
      s = " " + string.join(attr_list, " ")
   else:
      s = ""

   return s


images = {}

def get_image(name):
   if images.has_key(name):
      return images[name][0] # Image already there - return its cid

   else:
      global base
      try:
         fname, headers = urlretrieve("%s/%s" % (base, name))
      except:
         exc_type, exc_value, exc_tb = sys.exc_info()
         return "Error=%s/%s" % (exc_type, exc_value)

      datafile = open(fname, 'r')
      data = datafile.read()
      datafile.close()

      cid = choose_boundary() # I need a random string as a Content-ID; MIME boundary seems appropriate
      images[name] = (cid, data)
      return cid


class IMG_Parser(SGMLParser):
   def __init__(self):
      SGMLParser.__init__(self)
      self.saved_data = ""


   def handle_data(self, data):
      if data:
         self.saved_data = self.saved_data + data

   def handle_comment(self, data):
      if data:
         self.saved_data = self.saved_data + "<!--%s-->" % data


   def do_img(self, attrs):
      new_attr = []
      for attr in attrs:
         a = [attr[0]]
         if attr[0] == 'src':
            cid = get_image(attr[1])
            a.append("cid:%s" % cid)
         else:
            a.append(attr[1])
         new_attr.append(a)

      s = join_attrs(new_attr)
      self.saved_data = self.saved_data + "<IMG%s>" % s


   def unknown_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
      self.saved_data = self.saved_data + "<%s%s>" % (string.upper(tag), join_attrs(attrs))

   def unknown_endtag(self, tag):
      self.saved_data = self.saved_data + "</%s>" % string.upper(tag)



def parse_html():
   parser = IMG_Parser()

   infile = sys.stdin
   while 1:
      line = infile.readline()
      if not line: break
      parser.feed(line)

   parser.close()
   infile.close()

   return parser.saved_data


def gen_mime(html, subj, charset, email_from, email_to):
   #sendmail = open("sendmail", 'w')
   sendmail = os.popen("/usr/sbin/sendmail -f '%s' %s" % (email_from, email_to), 'w')
   sendmail.write("""From: %s
To: %s
Subject: %s
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
""" % (email_from, email_to, subj))

   mime = MimeWriter(sendmail)

   firstpart = mime.startmultipartbody("related")
   firstpart.write("""\
   Your mailer does not support MIME encoding. Please upgarde to MIME-enabled
mailer (almost every modern mailer is MIME-capable).
""")

   subwriter = mime.nextpart()
   subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
   subwriter.startbody("text/html; charset=%s" % charset)
   base64.encode(StringIO(html), sendmail)

   for name in images.keys():
      image = images[name]

      subwriter = mime.nextpart()
      subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
      subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'inline; filename="%s"' % name)
      subwriter.addheader("Content-ID", "<%s>" % image[0])
      subwriter.startbody("image/gif")

      base64.encode(StringIO(image[1]), sendmail)

   mime.lastpart()
   sendmail.close()


def run():
   global base
   base, subj, charset, email_from = sys.argv[1:5]
   addrs = string.join(sys.argv[5:], " ")

   html = parse_html()
   gen_mime(html, subj, charset, email_from, addrs)


if __name__ == '__main__':
   run()

From DONT at SPAM.ME  Fri Aug 17 09:56:31 2001
From: DONT at SPAM.ME (John Walker)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:56:31 +0200
Subject: fnctl on Win2k
Message-ID: <kq7jl9.tc8.ln@proxy.bbd>

Hi.

I have downloaded some modules that need "fnctl"
I don't seem to have it, although I have something called "test_fnctl.py"

How do I get fnctl to work ?

--
Walluce Pinkham
Computer Programmer
Barone, Budge and Dominick (PTY) Ltd.

Walluce at jhb.bbd.co.za

"When I meet my maker, will he close the book
on the hearts I broke and the lives I took ?"
-- Santa Fe - Bon Jovi
-----------------------------------------------
Disclaimer and confidentiality note

Everything in this e-mail and any attachments relating to the official
business of Barone, Budge & Dominick (Pty) Ltd (BB&D) is proprietary to the
company. It is confidential, legally privileged and protected by law. BB&D
does not own and endorse any other content. Views and opinions are those of
the sender unless clearly stated as being that of BB&D.
The person addressed in the e-mail is the sole authorised recipient. Please
notify the sender immediately if it has unintentionally reached you and do
not read, disclose or use the content in any way.
BB&D can not assure that the integrity of this communication has been
maintained nor that it is free of errors, virus, interception or
interference.





From gorny at hobbiton.org  Sat Aug 25 12:51:42 2001
From: gorny at hobbiton.org (Gorny)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:51:42 +0200
Subject: other ext. prob [was: Re: seg. fault with ext. module]
References: <s5Kh7.41577$Vs4.366601@zonnet-reader-1> <m3lmk8xr77.fsf@gondolin.beleriand>
Message-ID: <GKQh7.41635$Vs4.369087@zonnet-reader-1>

> You forgot to increment the reference count for None, which creates a
> problem at termination time.
>
> See http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html
>
> hth,
> /steffen

Allright, I get that point now. But after a look on xxmodule.c contained
in the pythonsrc distribution I've noticed the following functions:

static void Xxo_dealloc(XxoObject *self)
{
 Py_XDECREF(self->x_attr);
 PyObject_Del(self);
}

static PyObject *
Xxo_getattr(XxoObject *self, char *name)
{
 if (self->x_attr != NULL) {
  PyObject *v = PyDict_GetItemString(self->x_attr, name);
  if (v != NULL) {
   Py_INCREF(v);
   return v;
  }
 }
 return Py_FindMethod(Xxo_methods, (PyObject *)self, name);
}

static int
Xxo_setattr(XxoObject *self, char *name, PyObject *v)
{
 if (self->x_attr == NULL) {
  self->x_attr = PyDict_New();
  if (self->x_attr == NULL)
   return -1;
 }
 if (v == NULL) {
  int rv = PyDict_DelItemString(self->x_attr, name);
  if (rv < 0)
   PyErr_SetString(PyExc_AttributeError,
           "delete non-existing Xxo attribute");
  return rv;
 }
 else
  return PyDict_SetItemString(self->x_attr, name, v);
}

these are not mentiond in the methods passed to Py_InitModule().
In what circumstances calls the python interpreter these functions?
Just when an getattr and a setattr() call are made to the Xxo-module?
eg.
>>> import Xxo
>>> getattr(Xxo, 'foobar')   <---- calling Xxo_getattr()???


Greets,
Gorny


--
"When I was a little kid, I had this dream where a snake would rule and
dominate
the entire world (actually, I guess that a penguin was also part of the
dream...
but never mind)" -- Python Develper's Handbook, Andre Lessa
http://gorny.cjb.net




From xavier at perceval.net  Thu Aug  9 11:31:11 2001
From: xavier at perceval.net (Xavier Defrang)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:31:11 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Searchable python documentation
In-Reply-To: <3B72A93D.3404439C@lemburg.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108091726450.10400-100000@elara.perceval.be>

On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> 	http://web.pydoc.org/

It would be nice to have the php.net's URL hack on python.org so when I
type http://python.org/socket it redirects me the the documentation page
of the socket module or if there's no straight match, runs a search in the
documentation about this topic... believe me it saves plenty of time!

Regards,

Xavier Defrang
Perceval R&D Team
xavier at perceval.net

-------------------------------------------------
 Perceval Technologies SA/NV  Tel: +32-2-6409194
 Rue Tenbosch, 9              Fax: +32-2-6403154
 B-1000 Brussels         http://www.perceval.net
 BELGIUM                       info at perceval.net
-------------------------------------------------
 




From samschul at pacbell.net  Fri Aug 10 20:37:02 2001
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 17:37:02 -0700
Subject: Setting file creation date
References: <mailman.997454355.12463.python-list@python.org> <9l147s0tk3@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0108101637.d44e00e@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9l147s0tk3 at enews2.newsguy.com>...
> "Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997454355.12463.python-list at python.org...
> > On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
> >
> > >"Fredrik Seehusen" <fse at npt.no> wrote in message
> > >news:e77b4645.0108100226.4cfaf671 at posting.google.com...
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
> > >> creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?
> > >>
> > >> This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(
> > >
> > >os.utime lets you set the accessed and modified dates, but I
> > >don't think NT lets you change creation-date -- you'd have to
> > >change your computer's date, create a new file copying the
> > >old one, etc, etc, I suspect.
> >
> > Sorry for my total ignorance of NT, but AFAIK UNIX/Linux do not
> > have file creation date stored:
> 
> True; the 'c' stands for 'change' (to status), not for 'creation',
> on unix-like filesystems.
> 
> > Also I remember, Macintosh had file creation time stored,
> > but Windows 9x store only two times (probably mtime and ctime).
> 
> Wrong.  API GetFileTime correctly returns all three times
> (creation, last access, last write) on both NT and 9x and on
> both NTFS and FAT filesystems (the issue with the latter
> is the resolution of 2 seconds:-).
> 
> Which reminds me, SetFileTime lets you change those, and
> I don't know why win32file (part of the win32api) still does
> not make that call available according to the latest manual
> at URL [a single line, some sw will break it]:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Reference/Products/ActivePython/Pyth
> onWin32Extensions/win32file.html
> 
> Should be a C extension of a few lines, worst case.  Much
> simpler/faster than the rigmarole of change-date/copy-file/&c
> which I previously suggested.  Maybe calldll.pyd can help.
> 
> > atime and mtime are quite easy to change, and the nature
> > of ctime is more subtle.
> >
> > So, I wonder where creation date is used and how it survives
> > archiving...
> 
> On NT?  It survives perfectly and it's quite useful, because the
> *modification* time may happen to be bogus while the creation
> time is often more reliable.
> 
> 
> Alex


Windows NT and WIndows200 support the following API cals:
GetFileInformationByHandle(hFile,&lpFileInformation);
SetFileAttributes(&PathString[0],lpFileInformation.dwFileAttributes);

With these two function, you can set the file attributes.
If the Pywin32 API calls do not support these function you will have
to use calldll, and windll that can be found  at

http://www.nightmare.com/software.html


Sam Schulenburg


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Aug  5 15:22:12 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 22:22:12 +0300
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <ku66c2r1ha.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqtpt.3e8.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <ku1ymqqpln.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn9mqtpt.3e8.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:

|| hmm, it works on my machine (debian, self built python 2.1):

| Also Debian (woody), self-build 2.1

oops, taking a second look, looks like i'm running...

Python 2.1.1c1 (#1, Jul  3 2001, 22:20:45)
[GCC 2.95.4 20010319 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2

i guess it's a 2.1 <-> 2.1.1 thing.

  -- erno


From blong at fiction.net  Thu Aug 30 20:31:35 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:31:35 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and MySQLdb (was Re: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?))
In-Reply-To: <20010829213051.A27754@pulp>
References: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus> <20010828144649.A24682@pulp> <20010828205936.A25413@pulp> <15244.63726.86046.104257@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829151706.A27274@pulp> <15245.44599.164063.905384@beluga.mojam.com> <20010829213051.A27754@pulp>
Message-ID: <20010830173135.A30182@pulp>

On 08/29/01 Brandon Long uttered the following other thing:
> On 08/29/01 Skip Montanaro uttered the following other thing:
> > 
> >     >> Sounds like something's fishy in your os module.
> >     ...
> >     Brandon> No, the module is unmodified and does contain the
> >     Brandon> AttributeError clause... but for some reason, it doesn't match
> >     Brandon> the AttributeError exception that is thrown.  If I replace it
> >     Brandon> with just except: to catch all exceptions, it passes until
> >     Brandon> further down where something else in os.py expects an
> >     Brandon> exception.
> > 
> > This sounds very odd.  If you print out sys.exc_info() inside the except:
> > clause what do you see as an error?  Is there anything unusual about your
> > install?  Does "make test" from your build directory run pretty cleanly?
> 
> The first time through (when it doesn't fail):
> (<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80c807c>,
> <exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x8151dc4>, <traceback object at
> 0x81506e0>)
> 
> The second time through:
> (<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x81635e4>,
> <exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x8178f04>, <traceback object at
> 0x80d01c0>)

Ok, here's the revelation:
(<class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>, <exceptions.AttributeError instance at 0x818a04c>, <traceback object at
0x8189b38>)
AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x80c807c>
exceptions.AttributeError = <class exceptions.AttributeError at 0x817b59c>

Ie, exceptions.AttributeError and AttributeError don't match.

MySQLdb isn't required.  All that has to happen to cause this is to
import the exceptions module.

Brandon
-- 
   "Cui merda tollenda erit?"               
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From graz at mindless.com  Thu Aug 23 12:17:15 2001
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:17:15 GMT
Subject: Porably importing modules
Message-ID: <f0ah7.16915$5_3.1056918@news1.cableinet.net>

I'm sure there's a more idiomatic way to trap the failure to import a
module than my attempt. Whilst making sure one of my apps runs on Windows
as well as Unix I came up with the following code (re-typed and untested):

  # catch failure to import and let it pass
  try:
      import syslog
  except ImportError, e:
      print "can't import syslog: %s" % e

  # [ snip loads of stuff ]

  # make sure syslog is imported before trying to use it
  if "syslog" in dir():
      syslog.openlog(...)
  else:
      print "sorry, no syslog support"

Am I re-inventing a perfectly round wheel? Is there a cleaner way?

Thanks.

--
Graham

P.S. Does anybody know of any Python portability guidelines?


From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug 30 16:56:30 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:56:30 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de> <mailman.999153826.27100.python-list@python.org> <3b8e6d04.14344968@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <2Mxj7.154118$EP6.43226269@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8e6d04.14344968 at news.t-online.de...
> Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own
print
> function - er - statement.

In Python, like it or not, statement keywords are quite different from
function names, and the difference goes quite deep in both the
language definition and implementation.   Pretending otherwise only
leads to pain (as in beating one's head against a wall 8-).  You are,
of course, free to write your own function or method to do what you
want - which is what you should do from the beginning if you want
total control.

The print statement is not necessary, but is provided as a convenience
for output thru sys.stdout.write() with a format that is often good
enough, especially beginners and for interactive use or debugging.  It
was not meant to be a general replacement for format expressions,
file.write() and other code.
...
> But please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour,
and
> couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you
have
> to enclose the arguments in brackets.

You *can* modify print statement behaviour -- by modifying the
interpreter at the place where its behaviour is determined (which is
less than what you were proposing that someone else do).  'Having' to
add parens (not brackets) is different from 'could not'.

Terry J. Reedy





From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Fri Aug 17 12:54:29 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:54:29 -0400
Subject: A modest suggestion for unittest.py
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLCEGGCEAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

Would it be okay with everyone if there was some option added to the
TestProgram (invoked by default when using unittest.main()) so that it does
not perform a sys.exit() when it is done running tests?  This would make it
easier to run some tests and then drop through to the interpreter with -i.
Better yet, it would be nice if the interpreter mode had direct access to
the test cases (where the tests are exposed to globals()) for easier
probing.

Rich




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 16:20:05 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:20:05 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <mailman.998796398.21253.python-list@python.org> <3b88ceaa.496940252@wa.news.verio.net> <0q4iotg9ld08s7850vv3dqfi2hnbefv015@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <27miotk7g5nsc3bhegou9nlv0aqpd0irjc@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:19:20 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<0q4iotg9ld08s7850vv3dqfi2hnbefv015 at 4ax.com>:

:On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:23:22 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
:wrote in comp.lang.python in article
:<3b88ceaa.496940252 at wa.news.verio.net>:
:
::I'm wondering if _locking requires using _sopen? The Python builtin open uses
::fopen as part of creating the file object, I believe. Example code in
::the msvc++6.0 help re _locking uses _sopen, which provides shared access control.
:
:Hmm. This may be the case???
:
:In an interactive session, when I try to acquire two non-blocking locks:
:
:>>> import os
:>>> filename = r'e:\apache\cgi-bin\pylinks\lock.txt'
:>>> size = os.path.getsize(filename)
:>>> f = open(filename)
:>>> fd = f.fileno()
:>>> msvcrt.locking(fd, msvcrt.LK_NBLCK, size)
:>>> g = open(filename)
:>>> gd = g.fileno()
:>>> msvcrt.locking(gd, msvcrt.LK_NBLCK, size)
:Traceback (most recent call last):
:  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
:IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
:>>> 

Upon reading the Python docs for the msvcrt module, yet another time,
and thinking about this more carefully...

(The docs say, in part:
"
LK_LOCK
LK_RLCK
Locks the specified bytes. If the bytes cannot be locked, the program
immediately tries again after 1 second. If, after 10 attempts, the bytes
cannot be locked, IOError is raised.

LK_NBLCK
LK_NBRLCK
Locks the specified bytes. If the bytes cannot be locked, IOError is
raised.
"
)

It appears the LK_NBLCK tries for a blocking lock. Tries once, gives up
if not successful. Kind of strange they named it NBLCK. Seems like
non-blocking lock, but doesn't behave that way.

Whereas, LK_LOCK is a non-blocking lock. Well, tries 10 times, anyhow.

Appears that, via the msvcrt module, only exclusive locks are available,
no shared locks. From other reading I've done,
LK_LOCK and LK_RLOCK are the same. (One might think LK_RLOCK would be
fore a read lock, thus a shared lock, but that is not the case.)

OK, I think I'm OK, with this. I just won't try for a lock for reading
processes. I'll have some file there, that as long as it exists, reading
the file can proceed. Writers will delete that file before trying to
obtain an exclusive lock on the file. Then, when they unlock the file,
they can create that reading permission file again.


--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 09:36:49 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:36:49 +0200
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com> <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998482775.12377.python-list@python.org> <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m30ue026ag@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xy9obovj8.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?
>
>         [f(x) for x in a]
>
> just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
> to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,
>
>         map(lambda x: f(x), a).

This would be better expressed as map(f, a), of course (and then
it WOULD no doubt be faster than the comprehension:-).


> Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
> is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
> the language.

For much the same reasons it's always been in Haskell, I guess (the
language from which it was copied): it's a simple, succint expression
of an extremely common family of constructs.  List comprehensions
are more general than map, of course, as they can include if clauses
and multiple for clauses, but that's not the main point.  Rather,
it's like asking "the actual purpose of the ** operator" -- after
all, C and C++ do without it, so to somebody coming from such
languages it might just seem like confusing syntactic hair that's
otherwise equivalent to calling the pow function (in this case,
it's pow that is more general, since it also handles the three
argument case of (a**b)mod c far more speedily for large ints).

But if raising-to-power is a very frequent operation in your
programs, it's much handier to have it around as an operator --
just as, if building lists is a very frequent operation in
your programs, list comprehensions are much handier than maps
and lambdas (no doubt the reason they were put in Haskell).
So, here, Python copied from Fortran -- just as, for list
comprehensions, it copied from Haskell.

A language is a huge collection of delicate balancing acts,
of design compromises, among many conflicting objectives,
including handiness and minimalism.  Reducing the need for
lambda, and thus its frequence in idiomatic Python, by an
order of magnitude, was no doubt a motivator here:-).

Reminds me of a debate the other way 'round a few months
ago over on comp.lang.functional, where another guy was
utterly convinced that the addition of list comprehensions
to Python was THE major event in the history of Python, or
something like that... of course, he did have a Haskell
background in that case:-).


Alex





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 03:25:07 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 00:25:07 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3b7eedef.70799514@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <7x1ym8jyuk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) writes:
> >Here's one: say I have a long int, like x = 7**77777L.  How can I tell
> >how many bits it takes to express that number in binary?  How can I
> >convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
> >form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can
> >think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.
> >
> >Thanks.
> Brute force, but easy to understand:
>  >>> x = 7**77777L
>  >>> cl = []
>  >>> while x:
>  ...     cl += chr(x&0xff)
>  ...     x = x>>8
>  ...
>  >>> s = ''.join(cl)
> 
> Which gives you a little-endian result.

This is too slow to be reasonable.

> To get the string length required quickly, we can use
> the builtin hex conversion which is very fast.
> Note the '0x' in front and 'L' at the end (3 extra)
>  >>> hex(x)[:5]
>  '0xC7F'

Thanks, I didn't know about the hex function.  I tried ('%x' % x) and
it gave me an overflow error message (Python 1.5.2).  It works in 2.1.1.

To convert to binary, I think using hex(x) on the long int and then
using  the binascii package to convert hex to binary is likely
to be faster than the division loop above.

> I grant you, the while loop takes a few seconds, and so does the
> 7**77777L.  How fast do you need? We could write faster algorithms
> for the exponentiations, and also the conversion to string, both in
> Python. We could also obviously write a fast extension to do it in
> C/C++ and return a string of 8-bit chars as fast as the hex()
> function.  How fast do you need?

I just think something is terribly wrong if converting the number
to a binary representation (which it's already in, after all) is
much slower than computing the number in the first place.  How
would you do either the exponentiation or the conversion faster
in Python?

The numbers I actually want to use are closer in magnitude to 7**777
rather than 7**77777, if that matters.  I'd prefer to avoid using
a C library.  If I use one, gmpy should do the job.  I've timed
Python's arithmetic as around 10x slower than gmpy, which is
quite respectable since gmpy's inner loops are carefully tuned
assembly code, and this kind of arithmetic is hard to do efficiently
in portable C.  Python's arithmetic is around 100x faster than
perl's Math::BigInt.


From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Thu Aug  9 13:47:53 2001
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 17:47:53 GMT
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org> 	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> 	<mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org> 	<3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com> <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997294935.26649.python-list@python.org> <9kug8c$4fo$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <9kuic9$515$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>

I wrote:

> I would always write this as

>    for x in [ 1, 2, 3 ]:
>	pass

I should probably explain this some more.

To me, a tuple isn't something that you iterate over.  A tuple is
a lightweight record.  The equivalent of a struct i C, but with
unnamed members.  The difference between lists and tuples isn't
really that tuples are read-only, but in how they are used.

A list typically holds a number of homogeneous elements.  All
elements are to be treated more or less the same.  The length
of the list is often not fixed.  The elements of the list might
be of different Python types or classes, 

The elements of a tuple, on the other hand, are heterogeneous.
They might be of the same Python type, but they don't mean the
same thing.  An example is the return value from time.gmtime():
the elements are all integers, but they have vastly different
meanings.  Coordinates is another example: the X, Y and Z
coordinates in a three-dimensional room have distinct meanings,
and it is seldom meaningful to iterate over the three values in a
single coordinate triple and doing a certain operation on each of
them.  In C you would implement a coordinate as

    struct coord_3d {
	double x,y,z;
    };

not as

    typedef double coord_3d[3];

Sure, there are examples when you want to iterate over the
elements in the struct/tuple, like when implementing matrix
multiplication, but those are special cases, not the norm for
how a tuple *should* be used.


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"I don't think [that word] means what you    !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 think it means."   -- The Princess Bride    !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug  8 18:17:54 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:17:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: from __future__ import generators
In-Reply-To: <007f01c12055$fe94d400$68bd6ac2@zko>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081815201.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, gzeljko wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
> 'natural question':
> 
> Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> necessary ?

Only if you want to use generators. 
Iterators work without "from __future__ ..." 
but yield is just a normal id to the grammar instead of a keyword
without it. 

-- Steve Majewski





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 17:44:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:44:22 +0200
Subject: generating SQL - problem
References: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com> <3B71AB08.F8EAE11E@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <9ksbsb011bf@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Lee" <lee.reilly at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B71AB08.F8EAE11E at ntlworld.com...
> Okay, I assume that python strings have a maximum size => this could be
causing the

No, Python's strings are only limited by available memory.

> problem. Why is not throwing an exception? I'll try and store all the SQLs
in a
> list, but is there an easier / more efficient way?

I think your only problem is with trying to *display* a string of hundreds
of
thousands of characters.  Display small slices of it and it should work.


Alex





From tomh at optiscan.com  Tue Aug 21 21:17:35 2001
From: tomh at optiscan.com (Tom Harris)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:17:35 +1000
Subject: Advice for imaging
Message-ID: <AA94BA487AE0D411829300D0B7A7A95F079516@ULURU2>

Hi,

I have to do some quick prototyping on some image processing algorithms. The
requirements are to read in a large 16 bit per pixel image, do stuff to it
in various ways, and then compute various metrics on the result. The purpose
of this is to optimise an algorithm. I have libraries  for accessing and
loading/saving the images already written in C++.

Last time I had to do this I wrote simple command line wrappers in C to call
my libraries and write out images in a simple format (in fact it was
Poskanser bitmap, which is the simplest image format ever). Then wrote more
command line tools in C to try out the algorithms, and scripted the whole
mess with Perl and bash.

Now, however, I have learnt Python and there has got to be a better way
(especially as I can no longer understand what my Perl code did, or why or
how). I can see that using SWIG to wrap my libraries so that I can call them
from Python will be easy, but I am not sure quite what is the Pythonic way
of accessing an image (my lib represents an image as a pointer to the start
of a buffer together with methods to determine width, height, padding, etc. 
I looked at the Python Imaging Library but unfortunately it does not appear
to support 16 bit pixel images. 
Since speed is not really an issue, I was thinking in terms of a simple
class that is attached to an image that is able to iterate over it in
various ways, and get/set pixel values.

Advice?

 Tom Harris, Software Engineer
 Optiscan Imaging, 15-17 Normanby Rd, Notting Hill, Melbourne, Vic 3168,
Australia
 email tomh at optiscan.com     ph +61 3 9538 3333  fax +61 3 9562 7742

This email may contain confidential information. If you have received this
email in error, please delete it immediately,and inform us of the mistake by
return email. Any form of reproduction, or further dissemination of this
email is strictly prohibited.
Also, please note that opinions expressed in this email are those of the
author, and are not necessarily those of Optiscan Pty Ltd





From aahz at panix.com  Mon Aug 13 00:24:37 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 21:24:37 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9l7kq5$6fn$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9l5h650j8o at enews4.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Premature optimization is the root of all evil" (Kernighan, I believe).

Knuth.

In return for this little correction, would you please explain in simple
words exactly what it is that you're talking about?  I'm reasonably
adept at understanding plain classes, but you've been going way over my
head here.  I suspect other readers of c.l.py would like to understand,
too.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

Internet $tartup$: Arbeit ueber alles  


From Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com  Mon Aug  6 07:39:45 2001
From: Peter.Mayne at au1.ibm.com (Peter Mayne)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:39:45 +1000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com> <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9kn72d$pr0$1@news.btv.ibm.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b6c3e72.1263271428 at wa.news.verio.net...
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:03:05 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >Although I was thinking about about something which might be useful.
> >What if Python were to support a type consistency check on containers?
> >
> >>>> mylist = [1,2,"alpha"]!
> >Type Consistency Error:
> >>>>
> >
> >Note the exclamation point.
> >
> assert(type(mylist) in (type(()),type([])) and \
>   len([x for x in mylist if type(x)!=type(mylist[0])])==0)
>
> Would you use it often enough to warrant a language change?
>
> OTOH, if '!' were a unary postfix operator that you could define ... ;-)
>
> def __operator__!(mylist):
>     return type(mylist) in (type(()),type([])) and \
>   len([x for x in mylist if type(x)!=type(mylist[0])])==0)
>

There may be another way of doing this, which is hopefully more general.

Imagine that __add__ for list objects has __precondition__ and
__postcondition__ attributes. (By default, these simply return.)

To implement a homogenous list (ignore weird syntax where it occurs):

def __add__.__precondition__(self, other):
    """Ensure that a list only contains elements of a single type."""
    if len(self)==0:
        return
    elif type(self[0])==type(other):
        return
    raise NotHomogenousException

Now, whenever you do "c = c + [e]", the statement will only execute if the
precondition is met. (Obviously, all the different ways of building a list
must be covered.)

Let's extend this idea. Call a precondition/postcondition pair a constraint,
implement it in a class, and apply it to the list class.

class HomogenousConstraint(BaseConstraint):
    def __precondition__(self, other):
        # As above
        # We inherit __postcondition__, which just returns.

list.__constraint__[] += HomogenousConstraint()

(Don't pick holes in the syntax, I'm just trying to get the concept across.)

Note that __constraint__ is an attribute, so we don't have to subclass the
list type. Note also that __constraint__ is a list, because a class could
have multiple constraints. Now the constraint is applied to all operations
on instances of the class. (I don't know how, I'm a loony.) Now you can say

def myMethod(self, param: HomogenousConstraint)
    # etc etc

safe in the knowledge that param is homogenous. The compiler (bytecode or
otherwise) needs merely to check that the class of which param is an
instance has HomogenousConstraint as one of its constraints. If it doesn't,
the exception is raised.

Because a constraint is just more code, it can say things like "do I
implement these methods?", and we have something that looks suspiciously
like an interface (in the Java sense), thus providing Alex Martelli with a
way of saying "I require that this parameter looks like a filename, or an
object that implements the following subset of a file's functionality". And
because this can be a compile-time check, a "MustImplementSeek" exception
happens at compile-time.

There's some overhead when a constraint is involved, but constraints aren't
mandatory, as static type checking would be. Constraints need only be used
when a package/class author requires them. (Thus, backward compatibility.)

HomogenousConstraint is a constraint that might be used a lot, so it might
be predefined in the standard library, and/or implemented in C for
(ruthless) efficiency. Other more complicated constraints (such as checking
that even elements of lists are odd numbers, for instance) can be provided
in packages as appropriate.

So, our two weapons are programming with invariants and compile-time type
checking (but only where we want them) ... and interfaces. Amongst our
weaponry are such elements as invariants and type checking and backward
compatibility and an almost fanatical devotion to the BDFL.

And nice red uniforms.

PJDM
--
Peter Mayne
IBM GSA (but the opinions are mine)
Canberra, ACT, Australia
This post is covered by Sturgeon's Law.




From cce at clarkevans.com  Wed Aug 15 11:32:17 2001
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C . Evans)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:32:17 -0400
Subject: Interfaces (Was: Progress on missing features?)
In-Reply-To: <3b7a8e52.79174787@news.t-online.de>; from 510016792237-0001@t-online.de on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 03:03:45PM +0000
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de> <9lc1ir01rqf@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b7a8e52.79174787@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <20010815113217.B12073@doublegemini.com>

On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 03:03:45PM +0000, Dinu Gherman wrote:
| >http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0246.html
| >regarding 'protocol adaptation' -- same status and
| >version.
| 
| I've been reading your PEP 245 now and this fits very
| much what I'd expect Python interfaces to look like.
| What is the state of the art with it? 
| 
| The Wiki supposed to discuss this is pretty inactive 
| isn't it? And what is the relationship to PEP 246 for 
| which I have not seen any place to discuss it?

As the author of PEP 246 and a devoted Python user, I'm 
not sure that interfaces, "Java style" are all that useful 
for Python.  What I found that I needed more often was a 
"Pythonic" QueryInterface, hence the Adapt/Conform proposal.

Rather than storing "protocol compliance" information in
a type system... I'd rather have a quick two-stage dialogue 
among the participants (user,subject,protocol):  First, the 
user asks the subject if it is (or can construct an adapter) 
compliant with a given protocol.  And if not, it then asks
the protocol if it knows that the subject is (or can construct
a wrapper) well adapted to the protocol.

As for the relation between 245 and 246, they are complementary
in nature, you can implement one, the other, or both.  If you
implement both, then they could be made to work well with
each other as described in PEP 246.

I hope this goes somewhere... as it addresses many of
my integration needs with a pretty general pattern.  However,
I really don't have the time/energy to drive the issue
any further.

Best,

Clark

P.S.  You can use PEP 246 stand-alone.  However, the real
      value of PEP 246 can only come with standardization.
      In other words, if you have to "discover" if a given
      object supports PEP 246, then you mine as well just
      do the type checking/casting/adapting yourself...




From thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com  Wed Aug 15 18:48:22 2001
From: thecalm at NOSPAM.btinternet.com (G. Willoughby)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:48:22 +0100
Subject: TKinter question (hiding the main window)
References: <DQ0b7.74771$Q13.4979011@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <9leu6f$crg$1@uranium.btinternet.com>

try these methods:

root.iconify()           to minimise the window
root.deiconify()       to bring it back

or

root.withdraw()       to 'minimise' it but not put a icon anywhere (windows
program bar)
root.deiconify()       to bring it back

or

root.destroy()          to completely get rid of it!

hope that helps  :)

G. Willoughby.

"Andrew" <akaspick at sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:DQ0b7.74771$Q13.4979011 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to python and tkinter and have a quick question.  In the following
> code I want the file dialog to show, but not the main tkinter window that
is
> displayed.  The code sample is the only way I was able to get things to
work
> so far.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>
> from Tkinter import *
>
> root = Tk()
>
> fileName = askopenfilename()
>
> root.mainloop()
>
>




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 04:13:11 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:13:11 +0200
Subject: Striding slice?
References: <3b8951c6.530504965@wa.news.verio.net> <3B89F39B.4050103@senux.com.NOSPAM>
Message-ID: <9mcven01d6n@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Brian Lee" <senux at senux.com.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:3B89F39B.4050103 at senux.com.NOSPAM...
> Bengt Richter wrote:
> >  >>> a='0123456789'
> >  >>> a[0:5]
> >  '01234'
> >  >>> a[0:5:2]
> >  Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >  TypeError: sequence index must be integer
> >  >>>
> >
> > How about (faked example):
> >  >>> a[0:5:2]
> >  '024'
>
> >>> a = '0123456789'
> >>> a[0:5]
> '01234'
> >>> a[0:5][:2]
> '01'

But that's got nothing to do with stride!  The issue
is that strings don't support slices as indices via
getitem (as is now recommended practice), but rather
the older getslice special method (now obsolescent
and not recommended).  It would be nice if strings,
Unicode strings, lists, tuples, array.array's, &c, all
supported slices via getitem... that would afford
the stride aspect of slices to work on them -- so far
it only works on Numeric.array or user-coded classes
and types that respect the new convention (but NOT
ones that inherit a getslice method, sigh:-).


Alex





From yann.chachkoff at mailandnews.com  Tue Aug 28 21:52:02 2001
From: yann.chachkoff at mailandnews.com (Chachkoff Yann)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:52:02 -0400
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
In-Reply-To: <E15bosS-0004MF-00@mail.python.org>
References: <E15bosS-0004MF-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <01082821520204.01485@localhost.localdomain>

 I know that this may be quite a common question, but since I was unable to
 find the answer, I ask :

 I try to build a Python plugin for an application. The plugin is a shared
 library (.so) loaded at runtime by the main program using dlopen. The
 plugin is used to interpret Python scripts for the main application.
 So I wrote the following Makefile:

 OBJECTS = plugin_python.o

 INCLUDE = -I./include -I../include -I/usr/include -I/usr/include/python2.0
 CC = gcc
 FLAGS = $(INCLUDE) -Wall -g -fPIC

 all : plugin_python

 clean :
 	rm -rf *.o core plugin_python.so.0.1

 install :
 	cp plugin_python.so.0.1 /home/gros/games/share/crossfire/plugins

 plugin_python : $(OBJECTS)
 	$(CC) $(FLAGS) -shared -Wl,-soname,plugin_python.so.0 $(OBJECTS)
 ../common/libcross.a /usr/lib/python2.0/config/libpython2.0.a -lpthread
 -lutil -ldmalloc -o plugin_python.so.0.1

 plugin_python.o : plugin_python.c
 	$(CC) $(FLAGS) -c plugin_python.c

 The plugin/application duo works fine, but when I try to run that script
 for example:

 import shelve

 maildb_file = '/tmp/crossfiremail.db'
 maildb = shelve.open(maildb_file)
 maildb.close()

 I get the following error:
 ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.0/lib-dynload/structmodule.so: undefined
 symbol: PyString_Type

 Following my searches, it seems that I need to tell the linker to export
 all symbols of the dynamic symbol table, so I tried to add -export-dynamic
 (or -E) in the main making line, but it does not work. What should I do ?
 Anyone has an idea ?

 Chachkoff Y.



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 24 03:59:09 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:59:09 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: beginer need Python users advice 
In-Reply-To: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010823224152Z-55122@emi1.EMI>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108241158340.22648-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Kim C Tran wrote:
> I'm starting to program Python Language and I need to send mail
> through Python , which method is the best : STMP or create Mapi
> session.

   SMTP - it is portable standard.

> I'm thinking to use STMP but It's need a MineWriter , so is this slow
> method ; Does it carry any overhead at all ??

   Not at all.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Aug 31 03:56:41 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:56:41 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
In-Reply-To: <Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108311153230.18028-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
>     I'm writing a web crawler as an exercise, using urllib and htmllib to
> recursively crawl through the pages. Whenever urllib.urlopen() throws an
> IOError exception the url gets flagged as a broken link.
>
>     Unfortunately, urllib.urlopen() is blocking for some time on one URL. When
> I do an nslookup on it, it times out within a few seconds, since it's a URL
> from our internal intranet at work and is not accessible from the internet.
> However, urllib.urlopen() takes forever to return.
>
>     Is there a way to specify a timeout for this library? I can't find a way
> in the documentation.

   There is no. This is actually TCP/IP problem. There are many solutions:
signals (unfortunately, signals are sinchronous in Python), multiprocessing
(forking or threading), non-blocking sockets (select/poll, asyncore).

   You may be interested to look into my (similar) project. The following
is detailed announce:

                    Bookmarks Database and Internet Robot

WHAT IS IT
   There is a set of classes, libraries, programs and plugins I use to
manipulate my bookmarks.html. I like Netscape Navigator, but I need more
features, so I write and maintain these programs for my needs. I need to
extend Navigator's "What's new" feature (Navigator 4 calls it "Update
bookmarks").


WHAT'S NEW in version 3.2.1
   Minor imrovement in robot wrapper check_urls.py - it sums up all traffic and
reports it at the end of the run.


WHAT'S NEW in version 3.0
   Complete rewrite from scratch. Created mechanism for pluggable storage
managers, writers (DB dumpers/exporters) and robots.


WHERE TO GET
   Master site: http://phd.pp.ru/Software/Python/#bookmarks_db

   Faster mirrors: http://phd2.chat.ru/Software/Python/#bookmarks_db
   http://www.crosswinds.net/~phd2/Software/Python/#bookmarks_db


AUTHOR
   Oleg Broytmann <phd2 at earthling.net>

COPYRIGHT
   Copyright (C) 1997-2001 PhiloSoft Design

LICENSE
   GPL

STATUS
   Storage managers: pickle, FLAD (Flat ASCII Database).
   Writers: HTML, text, FLAD (full database or only errors).
   Robots (URL checker): simple, simple+timeoutscoket, forking.

TODO
   Documentation.

   Merge "writers" to storage managers.
   New storage managers: shelve, SQL, ZODB, MetaKit.
   Robots (URL checkers): threading, asyncore-based.
   Aliases in bookmarks.html.

   Configuration file for configuring defaults - global defaults for the system
   and local defaults for subsystems.

   Parse downloaded file and get some additional information out of headers
   and parsed data - title, for example. Or redirects using <META HTTP-Equiv>.

   Ruleset-based mechanisms to filter out what types of URLs to check: checking
   based on URL schema, host, port, path, filename, extension, etc.

   Detailed reports on robot run - what's old, what's new, what was moved,
   errors, etc.
   WWW-interface to the report.

   Bigger database. Multiuser database. Robot should operate on a part of
   the DB.
   WWW-interface to the database. User will import/export/edit bookmarks,
   schedule robot run, etc.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From graz at mindless.com  Wed Aug 29 08:58:04 2001
From: graz at mindless.com (Graham Ashton)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:58:04 GMT
Subject: Python Books - Which one?
References: <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4@cyberway.com.sg>
Message-ID: <wF5j7.34313$hm3.2250338@news1.cableinet.net>

In article <3B8CF4D9.B9D0D4 at cyberway.com.sg>, "Paul Lim"
<paullim at cyberway.com.sg> wrote:

> I am a newbie in Python programming. I hope the guru can adivse me.

Are you a newbie to programming too, or just Python? I'd be after advice
from somebody who has just been through the process that you are about to
start, rather than a coding guru who won't need the same kind of book as
you.

> I would like to acquire a book for my python programming. There are
> generally three main books in my mind
> 
> 1. Programming Python by O'Reilly
> 2. The Quick Python Book

What's the third?

I've not seen the Quick Python Book so can't comment on it. I've got
Programming Python though (second edition). I think it's a very good book
but it's not a tutorial by any means. It is packed full of extensive
examples however, which teach application design as well as Python syntax.

If you've got prior programming experience and understand the language
constructs covered in the Python tutorial (http://www.python.org/doc/) and
Dive Into Python (http://diveintopython.org/) then Programming Python
wouldn't be a bad choice. It is very thick though and I'm finding that I
sometimes don't have the patience to read the coverage of each topic
fully, partly because I'm impatient, partly because the coverage (in
parts) is a little too waffly for my taste.

My favourite book for learning more Python is currently the Python
Essential Reference which has an approach similar to O'Reilly's nutshell
series (i.e. concise overview of language followed by library reference).
It's by no means verbose but that's not usually a problem. Another
excellent book is Python Standard Library. There is quite a bit of overlap
between those last two though.

I hear that Wesley Chun's book is very good (I think it's called Core
Python Programming). I nearly bought that instead of Programming Python,
and still wonder whether I should have. I didn't get it because I didn't
like the layout that much - I know, it shouldn't be so important to me,
but I didn't find the text quite so accessible (personal quirkiness on my
part).

> Can anyone recommend to me which is better? Or is there any better book
> out there? I am looking for a book that is reader friendly but contain
> substantial material that will last me quite some time.

Well, what level of experience do you have?

So you can gauge my comments a bit, I did Perl for five years before
trying Python in earnest about 3 or 4 months ago.

--
Graham


From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 21:52:42 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:52:42 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <9Hgb7.73303$EP6.17305404@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195@4ax.com> <5mnb7.74817$EP6.17707012@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <ot3umtgh3gq64unusn0qf6t0qu4cpibt9a@4ax.com>

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 02:33:37 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
wrote:

>
>"Stephen Horne" <steve at lurking.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195 at 4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:58:13 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
>> wrote:
>> >... what is your purpose in continuing to falsely label him
>'dictator' as in
>> >'denier of freedom'?  Enough I think.
>>
>> I did not label him dictator ... I just explicitly
>> pointed out that he cannot be a dictator in the sense of a denier of
>> freedom - that was the whole point of the 'weak dictatorship'
>> statement - so I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to twist my
>words.
>
>OK, replace 'dictator with 'would-be dictator' and I don't think I
>twisted much at all.  'Dictator' has two meanings: one who speaks, or
>one who also enforces his words (and thereby denies freedom).  If you
>did not mean 'weak speakership', which I very much doubt, then it
>seems you must mean 'weak enforcement'.  The clear inplication *to me*
>of both your original 'weak dictatorship' statement and your
>restatement above is that there is a would-be or intended dictatorship
>that is failing.  Otrherwise the statements seem pointless.  Given
>that the Python license is about the freeest there is, I think that
>implication false.

As we all know, the subject of this thread is 'Deposing Dictators', a
subject which is based on the common term 'BDFL' which has been used
for a very long time in an affectionate way (though the thread subject
twists that, of course). And the original purpose of this thread was
to try to cause a Python fork.

Read back through my past posts and you'll find that I specifically
spoke out against that, comparing it with microsofts actions in
creating a variant of Java.

I also specifically said that the 'benevolent' was, for me, not in
question.

However, there have been statements in this thread such as...

"""
Alternatively, the people that have been baffled and amazed by recent
developments in Python could actually turn out to be all heat and
light,
without any substance.
"""

...and...

"""
But for goodness' sake, don't waste your
time whining about "democracy".  Especially when "democracy" means
"whiners have veto power over anything.
"""

My point in my message was simply to state that yes, I am doing
something, and no, I have no intention of standing around whining. The
whiners have already achieved their veto power and PEP238 is going to
go through and make a major incompatible change to the language.

And, to quote myself from the very message you are whining about...

"""
And I'll admit that the anti-PEP faction is just as bad - the claims
about 'MDFL' and such show that.
"""


My only accusation directed at Guido is that he has changed from his
original opinion (however weak that position was), that clearly a
reason for that change due to the long term whining about the way
division currently works, and that through a simple fact of human
psychology achieving another reversal of that opinion is bound to be
difficult, and through this change of opinion he is taking actions
which will make life difficult for many irrespective of his attempts
to soften the blows.

In other words, Guido is human and I believe he is making a mistake.


Do you care to explain why, as soon as I declare an intention to drop
out of the argument and stop defending my viewpoints, you take that as
an opportunity to twist my words and try to make it look like I
attacked Guido personally?

Do you care to explain why I personally should be banned from using
the term 'dictator' which is used so widely by everyone else?

Personally, I wouldn't bother. After all, you're not the only one to
deliberately twist my words.

I am sick of having people take my view that division in the domain of
integers is inherently different to division in the domain of reals,
and twisting it into a claim that the rational '2/3' or whatever is
equal to integer zero when the blatantly obvious legitimate comparison
in the domain of integers would be '2 ? 3 = 0 remainder 2' (as opposed
to '2 ? 3 = 2/3' in the domain of rationals).

I am sick of people twisting my argument that mathematics does not
need explicitly different operators for division in different numeric
domains into some kind of claim that the new Python will not support
integer division at all.

I am sick of being told I am using private definitions of terms when I
am using the exact definitions that you'd find in a typical maths
textbook as long as it didn't deal with a particular specialist topic
such as field theory.

I am sick of - well, far too many things to list.

As I said, there is no argument that can counter being ignored - and
there is equally no argument that can counter having your words
deliberately twisted and their meaning ignored.

As you (among others) have managed to annoy me enough to break my
promise to stop posting on this issue, clearly the only solution is
for me to unsubscribe from this list. I hope that makes you happy.



From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug  7 12:38:36 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 09:38:36 -0700
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <memo.20010803215850.16469f@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9kp5ic$jce$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <memo.20010803215850.16469f at digitig.compulink.co.uk>,
Tim Rowe <digitig at cix.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Just a quick reminder that the reason I can't get any sysadmin to let me 
>use Python is that all the ones I encounter consider Python too unstable 
>for serious work. I see their point :-(

Ask your sysadmins to clearly explain to you the stability between
Perl4, Perl5, and Perl6.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 00:16:50 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:16:50 -0400
Subject: server question
References: <oG1d7.8274$vp.1265600@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3B74B1B2.47807E5C@engcorp.com>

vin wrote:
> 
> import socket
> 
> def start_server(PORT):
>     HOST = ' '                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host
>     s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     s.bind((HOST, PORT))
>     s.listen(1)
>     conn, addr = s.accept()
>     print 'Connected by', addr
>     while 1:
>         data = conn.recv(1024)
>         if not data : break
>         conn.send(eval(data))
>     conn.close()
> 
> When I send "5*6" the server chrashes.  ....

How are you "sending" this?  You can't type it fast enough
in telnet, I think, to avoid having the first character
sent (and evaluated) before you manage to type the second
character, so have you got some client program which
you've also written?  Are you certain it is really sending
what you think it is?  

(Put another way: the above code won't work anyway.  
Sockets provide no guarantee that all the data sent 
will be received by recv() in a single call, so you 
might end up with "5*" in the first pass, and "6" in 
the second.)


> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "server.py", line 13, in start_server
>     print 'Evaluated', eval(data)
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This line doesn't exist in the snippet you've posted.  
Please post the code you are actually running with
the error it generates, so we don't have to guess.

(Or try this one: it looks like you are trying to 
duplicate the functionality of the monitor_server
included in Medusa (http://www.nightmare.com/ ).
Maybe you can just steal from there.  And if you 
planned to extend the above server to do
more than simple one-line expressions, you 
might also want to look at the library modules
code.py and codeop.py.)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  9 16:30:45 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:30:45 -0500
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
In-Reply-To: <3B72E960.921F097C@earthlink.net>
References: <mailman.997373715.7743.python-list@python.org>
        <3B72E960.921F097C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <15218.62197.483571.756345@beluga.mojam.com>

    Joseph> Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
    >> 
    >> > From: Mark Robinson [mailto:m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk]
    >> >
    >> > Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list
    >> > and deleting
    >> > elements that don't meet a certain criteria.
    >> 
    >> You can use either filter or list comprehensions:

    Joseph> So it seems that (shudder) There's More Than One Way To Do
    Joseph> It. Isn't there supposed to be one (obvious) way?

Well, list comprehensions are generally a cleaner way than using map, filter
and/or lambda to massage one list into another.

Actually, neither the filter nor the list comprehension solutions posted
meet the original posters requirements that you iterate through the list and
delete elements not meeting certain criteria.  If the list has thousands of
elements, creating a new list may not be a wise choice.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 14 06:54:16 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:54:16 +0200
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpk807e2pg.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9lb0kg01hkt@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpk807e2pg.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote:
> > >     http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
> >
> > I thought I had understood it, but still don't see where it mentions
> > "x.__class__ = whatever" now being forbidden or restricted?
>
> That one's easy. :-)  Assignment to __class__ is not documented for
> classic classes either, so I didn't think it was necessary to mention
> it.

True.  Indeed, __class__ is specifically (and falsely) mentioned
as being read-only (ever since 1.5).  Wish I had noticed that much
earlier and submitted a doc bug about it -- oh well!-)


> > > It would be relatively easy to allow __class__ assignment only if (a)
> > > the new class is a subclass of the old class, and (b) the size of the
> > > new instance is the same as the old instance.  Would this be
sufficient?
> >
> > Does 'size' in this context mean 'number of slots'?
>
> Close enough.  In combination with the subclass requirement, the
> "equal size" requirement means that the subclass doesn't add any
> slots, and that guarantees the safety requirement.

Which is what I assumed in the rest of my post.

> But without the subclass requirement, in order for the __class__
> assignment to be safe, things are more difficult.  E.g. a list
> instance has two "slots" beyond the basic object header: a size and a
> pointer.  Now this class:
>
>   class C(object): __slots__ = ['a', 'b']
>
> also has two slots following the basic object header.  But switching a
> C instance to a list or back would be a disaster, because the
> interpretation of the slots is different.

Yes, that's quite clear.


> > In this case, albeit
> > with somewhat peculiar contortions (requiring new.classobj or the
> > equivalent), I think it would be sufficient for all cases that come to
> > my mind -- I'd just have to put any extra attributes in the __dict__
> > (which I do today for *every* attribute anyway:-).
>
> Sorry, I think you're off on the wrong foot there.

Care to explain why?  You don't, in the following.


> > The "generate empty object through __class__ assignment" trick
> > would also become sort-of-possible again (although of no practical
                                                       ***************
> > interest whatsoever:-) -- to wit:
    *******************
> >
> > def make_empty_copy(any_object):
> >     klass = any_object.__class__
> >     class Empty(klass):
> >         def __init__(self, *args, **kwds): pass
> >     newcopy = Empty()
> >     class Full(Empty):
> >         __init__ = klass.__init__
> >         __name__ = klass.__name__
> >     newcopy.__class__ = Full
> >     return newcopy
> >
> > the Full class is not really the same as any_object.__class__, but
> > nobody's gonna find out (presumably) since it's undistinguishable
> > under normal use of isinstance or any behavior-test whatsoever
> > (or have I forgotten to copy some needed attribute for that?).
>
> I don't think this is a useful kludge.

Do you READ the posts you're answering?  I *did* say and you quoted
(and I've underlined it with asterisks above) that this specific
trick is "of no practical interest whatsoever" -- so why are you
paraphrasing what I just wrote as if you were saying something
different?

> And how is newcopy going to
> acquire all the othe rattributes of any_object.__class__?

That's up to the caller, just like it's up to the caller of
    any_object.__class__.__new__()        # in the new Python
or
    new.instance(any_object.__class__)    # in good old Python
which this useless trick sort-of-mimics.  Isn't this obvious?


> > These classes Empty and Full are examples of what I mean above
> > as roughly 'equivalent' to new.classobj calls:-).  I think I could
> > handle 'real' cases of class-change (worst case) through similar
> > means, i.e. generating on the fly a class that's basically what I
> > need but formally inherits from the object's original class so it
> > can be assigned.  I realize this will not support _deleting_ any
> > method wrt the original class, but that's not a need in any case
> > that easily comes to mind.
>
> It would be easier to bite the bullet and write the metaclass (in C)
> that does the proper safety check.

Except that this requires ahead-of-need design of infrastructure,
or deep refactoring even just to try something out.  Having a
working kludge to try things out (refactoring later if need be)
is much better for incremental, just-in-time design.


> > Yes, but, when servers DO have to stay up, fixing them on the fly,
> > albeit indeed fragile, is a specified constraint.  I guess in some cases
> > one could devise alternate strategies: putting up a new fixed server
> > process on a different machine, port-redirecting all new requests to
> > the new machine, and finally pulling down the old buggy server when
> > the conversations for the requests it was serving at fix-time are gone.
>
> I'm assuming you have to plan for this anyway, since you'll need a way
> to doctor the server in the first place.  So why not make your
> planning easy by having __dynamic__ = 1 somewhere?

No, I don't have to plan *in advance* for this functionality, *in
Python as it stands today*.  This is thanks to Python's rich and
powerful dynamic features, of course.

Consider.  I release PlikServerFramework (PSW) 1.0 -- programmers
who program on top of PSW can write their own plug-in classes and
register with a factory-registrar.  I do not constrain plug-in
classes so they have to inherit from PSWobject -- I just specify
they have to provide a certain signature (certain methods with
certain signatures), since signature-based polymorphism is much
more general and handier.

Then later on I release PSW 1.5, which adds features (rarely do
new releases REMOVE features, though Python's an exception:-0).
[Note: this IS a quip, but actually I consider Python's removal
of 'wrong' old features a peculiar strength -- it's just when
the features slated for removal are 'good' ones that I worry:-)].

One of the new features is, a running server can be upgraded.
PSW-using programmers don't have to change any of their existing
PSW plug-ins -- they can just specify a few new flags, if they
wish, when they submit a plug-in to the factory-registrar, to
specify whether the new plug-in must override an old one and
to which extent (only for new connections, or even for ones
that already exist).  Beautiful, isn't it?  A programmer X may
be using some PSW plug-ins that were separately released by
programmer Y (and *of course* X doesn't want to fork Y's code,
that's a seriously dangerous anti-pattern) and get the new
PSW 1.5 benefits without worries.  Cool!

Only, I can't do it any more in Python 3.0 (or whenever it is
that __dynamic__=0 becomes the default) -- I have to have the
foresight to specify infrastructure, that may come in useful
in future framework releases, right from the very first 1.0
release -- or else I can't offer these new functionalities
without requiring PSW users to modify existing plug-ins (which
might be a serious problem for plug-ins written by others).

This lowers Python's utility for such tasks to closer to that
of (e.g.) Java, and makes other languages (competing for the
same niche as Python, but clever enough to retain a richer
dynamic behavior, such as Ruby) more relatively attractive
compared to Python.


> > *blink* I had never thought Python's philosophy was protecting
> > "typical users" from themselves -- I thought that was the idea
> > of Pascal, Modula-2, &c, to Eiffel, the languages that know what's
> > good for you better than you know yourself, so they'll force you
> > to program the way Wirth (or Meyer) KNOWS is the one right
> > way to program.  As I previously read your recent posts, I thought
> > that the __dynamic__ thing was about performance instead...?
>
> Here we go again.  I mention one reason and it is assumed that this is
> the only reason.  As I've said before, my mind works a lot faster than
> my fingers can type (it seems it's the opposite for you :-), and
> sometimes the rationalization for an idea comes only gradually.

My fingers are pretty fast indeed, but I seriously doubt if you're
qualified to judge on the working speed of my mind; although you're
of course free to disagree, it appears that many readers enjoy my
posts, which suggests a reasonable amount of working-mind in them.

Your (relative) inability to rationalize your (often excellent)
ideas is indeed well-known.  But does that mean we should never
respond to what you say, because what you say is known to be a
probably-imperfect verbalization of reality?


> If you think about it, Python does a lot to protect typical users from
> themselves (why otherwise do you think it's gaining success as an
> educational language)?  For example, an input line of a million bytes
> won't cause a buffer overflow.

Not in Java, either.

> For example, arithmetic overflow is
> not silently truncated.

Not in Java, either.

> For example, almost anything that could cause
> a core dump is caught before it does (and we fix the remaining core
> dumps in real time :-).

Ditto for Java.

> For example, mixing incompatible types in
> expressions causes a TypeError rather than having a random undefined
> side effect.  For example, using an undefined variable name raises a
> NameError rather than silently being equal to zero.  For example, the
> whole division thing.  And so on.

"Better" still, in Java, mixing incompatible types is often
caught at compile-time, and using undefined identifiers is
_always_ caught at compile-time.  Since typical users do not
test their programs anywhere like nearly enough, it's crucial
to provide compile-time catches for their typical mistakes,
particularly typos, isn't it?

So, if protecting "typical users" against their own mistakes
is a priority, it seems that Java fills that niche 'better'
than Python does.

So where's Python's strength?  In *NOT* going as far as Java
in this 'protection' racket (notoriously a lucrative one, but
shady:-) -- in *selectively* protecting against stuff that's
worth protecting against, but no more than that -- and thus
not *getting in the way* the way Java does.

Say I'm using class X from some library.  The library author
didn't think of providing instances of X with a 'fleep'
attribute, yet I need that attribute in X instances for
my use.  In Java, I need much work -- I must subclass X
with my own Y, and arrange for Y instances to be generated
instead of X instances (assuming that's possible -- if
the instances are generated from within some framework,
I'm SOL if the framework author didn't make the factories
user-overridable).  In Python, it's a breeze -- if nothing
else, I can add a fleep to X instances on the fly; but,
better still, I can also (in Python as it stands today)
provide a *DEFAULT* value of fleep for X instances for
which it's not been explicitly set otherwise, just by
doing X.fleep=23.

Ooops -- now, in the new Python, I'll be SOL again (to
some extent) if the framework author lacked foresight:
I'll still be able (presumably, and hopefully) to add
an instance-attribute fleep to specific instances, but
rather than the handy default X.fleep I'll have to
surround every use of x.fleep for some instance x of
X with hasattr tests or try/except statements, so as
to be able to set x.fleep to the default 23 if fleep
was never set for this specific x as yet.  A pity.

In some cases I'll be lucky -- if X instances are
usable as directory keys, for example.  Or maybe I
can concoct a grandiose scheme for "non-invasive
fleep adjunction" based on weak references and id().
Again, these kludges are roughly equivalent to what
Java provides -- if X is hashable I can use that in
Java too, and, in Java too, I can (and have to)
concoct grandiose weak-references-based schemes.

I'd rather not have to, for such an unfortunately
frequent task as "customize to my needs a library/
framework whose author didn't have the foresight
to provide the customizability features I need".

I wish you worked for a few months with, say, the
Microsoft MFC library/framework: I think you'd
come out of the experience with a new, powerful
respect for the way Python (accidentally, it seems)
lets one naturally and effortlessly avoid such
huge wastes of effort.


> > Can we expect variable declarations a few minor releases from
> > now, then?  That would presumably be consistent with the new
> > focus on protecting typical users from themselves.
>
> I'm presuming you're being sarcastic.  We may indeed see *optional*
> variable declarations -- but not required ones.  But realistically,
> even the optional declarations seem far away -- the types-sig is only
> active for about 6 weeks per year, and most of that time is used
> rediscovering where we were a year ago... :-(.

Definitely not a recipe for fast progress.


> > "Of course" as long as the extra devices don't significantly
> > interfere with the tools' previous strengths in terms of cost and
> > power.  When the significant interference is there, there is no "of
> > course" about it -- it becomes a highly problematical trade-off.
>
> Exactly.  What's going on here is that I'm trying to tease out how far
> I should go with the safety device without making the tool unusable.

*unusable* is a *VERY* strong word.  Java is not "unusable".
Neither is C++, or, for that matter, C, or Fortran IV.  In
each case, this is proven by a lot of important and very
successful software systems written and deployed in the various
languages.  So, a language completely bereft of dynamic
feature, or very poor in them, can still to some extent
be 'usable' -- just not as useful as it would be with
simpler and richer dynamic features, such as Python's today.

I don't think your test should be, whether removing features/
"adding safety devices" makes Python "unusable".  Making it
"less useful than before" should hopefully be enough to block
the feature-removal/safety-addition.

> The new classes in Python 2.2 (which are entirely optional -- by
> default you get the same classic classes as in 2.1 and before) are one
> step of a new design.  We'll see how it needs to be tweaked.

The problem from my POV is therefore not with Python 2.2 -- if
the default still allows the dynamic aspects of today's Python,
providing a way for such aspects to be explicitly turned off
is not a disaster from my point of view.  Just like Java's "final"
keyword to turn off class extensibility or method overridability,
it can be abused, but it takes positive malice (what's the
opposite of 'forethought'?-) to abuse it, as it's NOT the
default.  I doubt you remember it, but a potential feature
I've often chatted about in this group is the ability to
explicitly 'lock' a dictionary in various ways (and I'm
tickled pink that I'll now be able to experiment with it
by subclassing built-in dictionaries!-) -- that's optional
explicit stopping of dynamic behavior, too, and without
even the positive performance side-effects that your new
ideas have.  The keywords from my POV in the sentence
"optional explicit stopping of dynamic behavior" are:
    1. most important: OPTIONAL -- there must still be
       a way to get the good old dynamic behavior
    2. very important: EXPLICIT -- ideally, dynamic
       behavior should be the default, with a way to
       EXPLICITLY turn it off, rather than vice-versa

"Optional, explicit stopping" would mean a smooth progress
towards a Greater And Better Python.  Changing defaults,
or, worse, removing some of today's dynamic aspects, even
though they had "just slipped in by mistake", has darker
characteristics... that 'mistake' was serendipity, the
Goddess Fortune smiling upon you.  Don't turn your back
to the Goddess when She smiles -- She's pretty fickle!-)


Alex





From mark at se7en.org  Wed Aug  8 09:13:40 2001
From: mark at se7en.org (Mark Derricutt)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:13:40 +1200
Subject: PyQt for Windows Status
References: <mailman.997094949.3162.python-list@python.org> <4a249347.0108060441.18511a14@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20010809.011340.480298490.2461@se7en.org>

In article <4a249347.0108060441.18511a14 at posting.google.com>, "Robert"
<bobh at hslda.org> wrote:

> I wanted to start using it on Windows prior to the PyQT book coming out
> so I would be familiar it a little bit.

PyQT Book? Where where???


From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sat Aug 11 11:06:21 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:06:21 -0500
Subject: [Package] FontTools: a font manipulation library
References: <20010810112905-r01010700-8b0dfba3-0910-010c@10.0.0.21>
Message-ID: <007301c12277$300b8b00$0101010a@local>

I just sent the following message to SourceForge.  They won't let me send
messages to the mailing lists you have set up, as described below.

I'm afraid I won't be able to help at all as I can't participate in your
mailing lists.  To be clearer, my website provider doesn't allow account
names longer than 8 characters, and services postmaster via the "wildcard"
alias to my personal account.  It works PERFECTLY except for VRFY requests.

When my mailserver tries to send mail to the list, it gets this back:

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.sourceforge.net.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 rejected: Cannot accept mail from
<chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> because your server doesn't have a
postmaster account: Response from newcenturycomputers.net [208.234.11.243]
was "550 <postmaster at newcenturycomputers.net>... User unknown" when checking
for existence of a postmaster mailbox. RFC 822 section 6.3 (which you have
to abide by if you send and receive Email) states that you are required to
have a postmaster mailbox that is routed to the person responsible for mail
(http://www.rfc822.com/).  We need to be able to contact you at the
postmaster address to resolve potential problems if need be before we can
accept your mail. Please create a postmaster account at your site
554 <fonttools-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net>... Service unavailable

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Sent to SourceForge:

My ISP services the "postmaster" account via a sendmail alias.  This is
common.  VRFY requests do not return information about the account as it
isn't an "account" per se.

I am unable to join any mailing lists (in the sense of sending to them) due
to the 550 error returned.

I understand why you are doing this, in the sense that you want to ensure
that you can contact the ISP.  YOU CAN CONTACT THE ISP at the postmaster
account!  JUST FINE.  But VRFY won't say so.

How do you handle the many ISP's that don't support VRFY due to spammers?

BTW the email section below is TOO SHORT for my email address, which is:

chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net

For the highly-visible "member of the community" that you are, these are bad
things to be doing.





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Fri Aug 24 00:56:06 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 21:56:06 -0700
Subject: Qt licensing hell!
References: <Xw9h7.10076$x84.2967046@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <7x3d6i6opl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Chris Farley <nbrewer at visi.com> writes:
> I would like to develop an opensource cross-platform GUI application 
> in PyQt. I would like to distribute a Windows version of the application
> bundled with all the .DLLs needed to run the program, including the Qt
> library. Is it legal to do this? Here's part of the license that is
> giving me headaches.

I don't know anything about the Qt/Windows licensing situation.  But
do you really need Qt?  Is Tkinter not enough?


From ANTIGEN_MARS at mars.otago.ac.nz  Mon Aug  6 08:26:43 2001
From: ANTIGEN_MARS at mars.otago.ac.nz (ANTIGEN_MARS)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:26:43 +1200 
Subject: Antigen found VBS/Haptime.A@mm (Norman,CA(InoculateIT)) virus
Message-ID: <B57613845A50D211864C0000F8FA5C2803D5C70F@mars.otago.ac.nz>

This is an automated message sent from the Antigen Virus Protection for
Microsoft Exchange Mail @ The School of Business - University of Otago
=========================================================

An email intended for you had an attached file, Unknown and the file was
found to be infected with the VBS/Haptime.A at mm (Norman,CA(InoculateIT))
virus.

Because of this, the attached file has been Removed.  

The message, "Help ", was sent from JOSHI  and was discovered in the IMC
Queues\Inbound located on the School of Business Mail server.

====================================================

If you have any questions regarding this message please contact:

Neil Dobier
Technical Systems Support Specialist
School of Business
University of Otago
P.O.Box 56
Crn Clyde & Union Street
Dunedin
New Zealand
Phone: 64 3 479 8996
Mobile: 021674968
Fax: 64 3 479 8171
ndobier at business.otago.ac.nz



From dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu  Mon Aug  6 14:20:05 2001
From: dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu (Dylan Thurston)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 18:20:05 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>        <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu> <mailman.997118589.7448.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9mtnuj.fng.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>

In article <mailman.997118589.7448.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro wrote:

>    Dylan> The 'list' class/type has a method '__getslice__' (etc.), which
>    Dylan> uses the old and very broken interface.  I want to define a
>    Dylan> subclass for which this interface is insufficient.  If I want the
>    Dylan> new interface, I have to figure out how to hide that method.
>    Dylan> [Does anyone know how to do this?]
>
>How about
>
>    >>> class MyList(list):
>    ...   def __getslice__(self, *args):
>    ...     raise AttributeError, "__getslice__"
>    ... 
>    >>> x = MyList()
>    >>> x.__getslice__()
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>      File "<stdin>", line 3, in __getslice__
>    AttributeError: __getslice__
>
>?

Thanks for the suggestion, but this doesn't improve the behaviour: I
then get things like

>>> a[2:5]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/tmp/python-UHAMbk", line 8, in __getslice__
AttributeError: __getslice__

I don't want the __getslice__ method to be called at all.

(This method of changing APIs, calling the new function only if the
old function can't be found, strikes me as fragile, particularly in
Python where there is no data hiding.)

Best,
	Dylan Thurston


From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Fri Aug 24 17:29:55 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:29:55 +0100
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <mailman.998627557.25748.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9odhqj.139.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Tim Peters wrote:

[about list comprehensions]
> Maximal clarity in common cases.  See design docs for the Haskell language,
> from which Python most directly borrowed this feature; Haskell in turn
> adapted it from the SETL language; SETL in turn adapted the notation from
> set theory; the name "comprehension" comes from the set-theoretic so-called
> Axiom of Comprehension, more directly relevant to forms with an "if" clause.

And it should really be called "separation" rather than
"comprehension", since set theorists use "comprehension"
to mean constructing { x : P(x) } and "separation" to mean
constructing { x in y: P(x) }.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 27 12:11:58 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271930340.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108271156230.2702-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Roman Suzi wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>
> > 1.1? Ouch.
> >
> >   ftp://ftp.rpmfind.net/linux/sourceforge/expat/expat-1.95.2-1.src.rpm
>
> This doesn't provide expat-devel (that is, includes and libs).

Well, it provides includes and libs, but in the main package, not in -devel.

> > db1 may be trickier. IIRC, there's some sort of conflict with 6.2 and the db1
> > packages from 7.x. Nonetheless:
> >
> >   ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.1/en/os/i386/SRPMS/db1-1.85-5.src.rpm
>
> Trickier indeed:
>
> # rpm -hiv db1-1.85-5.i386.rpm db1-devel-1.85-5.i386.rpm
> error: failed dependencies:
>         glibc < 2.1.90 conflicts with db1-1.85-5
>         glibc-devel < 2.1.90 conflicts with db1-devel-1.85-5

Yeah, that's what I remember happening.

> How people compile Python 2.1.1 from src.rpm on not-so-ancient RedHat 6.2
> (without tricks)???
>
> I do not believe Python 2.1.1 requires RedHat 7.x to compile
> and run, but that is what official src.rpm for it insists.
>
> Maybe I could find alternative spec-file?

Naw, just edit the spec file:

1) Add 'rh62' to the end of the Release,
2) Change 'expat-devel...' and 'db1-devel...' in the BuildPrereq to
     'expat=1.95.2' and 'glibc-devel<=2.1.90', and
3) Rebuild with '-ba' instead of '-bb' to generate new SRPMS.

spec files may be magic, but they're not black magic ;)

> > Knock yourself out.
>
> Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi

Interestingly enough, rawhide's python2-2.1.1-2 doesn't seem to have a
BuildPrereq for db1-devel, although it still has expat-devel. And wouldn't you
know it,?expat-1.95.1-7, also from rawhide, generates a -devel package. I
think we have a fairly reliable source for these packages, don't you? :)

  ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/SRPMS/SRPMS/

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>







From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug  9 21:47:43 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:47:43 -0700
Subject: questions.part #2
References: <9kpj1s$pp1$1@usenet.otenet.gr>
Message-ID: <3B733D3E.544C5E35@ccvcorp.com>

whats_really_hot wrote:

> 1. When we type "dir()" in the interactive command line prompt get among all
> the others the module "__name__" which really tell us the name of the module
> that we are . But now we are in the interactive command line prompt, which
> is a module with the name "__main__". Now, my question is, why isn't
> __name__ = __main__? (Why isn't __name__ substituted by __main__?
>
> Sorry for repeating this question but I didn't really get a clear answer.
>

Well, you did, you just didn't understand it.  :)

__name__ is a variable, just like any variable that you use in Python.  Every
variable is a name, which is bound to a value.  In this case, the name of the
variable is __name__, and the value of the variable is set, by the interpreter,
to the name of the current module.  While running in interactive mode, or when
running a module directly as a script, the current module name is assumed to be
__main__.  What you seem to expect, is that some string in the dir() would be
equal to the module name, but this is not correct.  dir() lists all of the
variable names in the current namespace.  In this case, one of those variables
is *named* __name__, and that variable has a *value* of __main__.  So, for
example:

>>> def isimported():
...    if __name__ == '__main__':
...       print "I am a top-level script!"
...    else:
...       print "I am an imported module!"
...
>>> isimported()
I am a top-level script!
>>> print __name__
__main__
>>>

Is that more clear?

> 2. What is the difference between "!=" and "<>" (which really mean
> "different")?

No real difference, it's a matter of style. "<>" is Pascal-style, and is favored
by those coming from that language or its relatives;  "!=" is C-style, and seems
to be preferred by Guido.  But at this point in time, either one is usable.

> 3. Are the built-in tools (such as "len", "sort" etc) maintained in a folder
> into the Python directory, so as I can access and edit them?

The built-in tools are part of the compiled interpreter, and are implemented in
C.  If you want to look through the C source, you can, and if you wish to change
them and recompile the interpreter, you can, but it's probably not a good idea
unless you really know what you're doing, or really like poking things to see if
they break.  :)

> 4.   What is the difference between "%d" and "%i" (which really point
> integer values)?

I think that the main difference is historical, relating to C's sprintf()
function.  I'd just use %i.

> 5. What does it mean that Python is a "high-level language" and other
> languages, such as C, are low-level?

C is very close to the machine architecture.  You can twiddle individual bits,
you can access specific memory addresses, you can directly access I/O ports, and
all sorts of little details.  This gives you a great amount of power, but to use
it well, you have to know what do with it, and how to do so safely--it includes
the power to shoot yourself in the foot.  Python manages many of these details
for you.  It handles all aspects of memory management, so that, while you may
not be able to access an exact memory address, you also don't have to worry
about writing over the *wrong* part of memory.  It provides an insulating layer
over I/O ports, so that, while you may not be able to do things quite as
efficiently as in C, it's much simpler.  Most importantly, Python provides quite
a few advanced data and control-flow structures--lists, dictionaries, smart
for-loops, etc.  You can do all of these things in C, but it would take quite a
bit of code, and have the potential to be very buggy.  In Python it's all done
for you, already.  And because it operates at a higher level of abstraction, you
can typically write the same functionality in much less code.  400 to 500 lines
of  C can easily be reduced to less than 100 lines of Python.  Less code means
less chance for bugs, typos, etc.

> Sorry for the simplicity of some of the above questions, but are crucial for
> me for the full understanding of Python.
>
> Thanks again for ur attention and immediate responds.
>

Hope that helps...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From jparlar at home.com  Sat Aug 11 23:28:34 2001
From: jparlar at home.com (Jay Parlar)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:28:34 GMT
Subject: Python Web Site Copier?
References: <mailman.997580418.1385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1103_997586651@jparlar>

Not sure if it's *exactly* what you want, but one of the code samples in  Chun's "Core Python Programming" is a web 
crawler, that "takes a starting Web address, downloads that page and all other pages whose links appear in succeeding 
pages, but only those which are in the same domain as the starting page". 

You might be looking for something more advanced, but you can at least give it a look. Wesley Chun's page is 
http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/ and this code in particular can be found at 
http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/book/ch19/crawl.py

Good luck to you!

> 
> Has anybody written a Python version of a utility like sitecopy?  (For
> synchronizing a web site on a server with a copy maintained on one's hard
> drive.)  From my search, I see that a few months ago somebody was working on a
> Python wrapper for sitecopy, but I would prefer a pure-Python solution for a
> variety of reasons (which I won't go into).
> 
> I am up to the job of writing my own but of course I don't want to if I don't
> have to!
> 
> Thanks in advance.  My apologies if this isn't completely on topic.
> 
> -- 
> ======================================================================
> Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
> paulsid at home.com                      http://members.home.net/paulsid/
> 

Jay Parlar
----------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering III
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

"Though there are many paths
At the foot of the mountain
All those who reach the top
See the same moon."




From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 31 08:27:19 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:27:19 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <0RGj7.12$pD3.125 at pollux.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> HOW!?!?!?!?

Well, the "default" GUI package for Python is Tk.

Get a copy of "Python and Tkinter Programming" by John E.
Grayson.  Read it.  Excellent book.

  Loot at http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/

Or, more specifically, read "An Introduction to Tkinter" by
Fredrik Lundh:

  http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

If you want to try other toolkits besides Tk, there are Python
bindings for wxwindows, gtk, Qt, Win32, etc.  See question 4.13
in the FAQ at

  http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

What widget set do you prefer?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  This MUST be a good
                                  at               party -- My RIB CAGE is
                               visi.com            being painfully pressed up
                                                   against someone's MARTINI!!


From ceosg at t-online.de  Tue Aug 14 11:06:32 2001
From: ceosg at t-online.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:06:32 +0200
Subject: Equivalent to Perl's Data::Dumper
Message-ID: <01081417063200.32630@phoenix>

Hi all!

I have looked through all of the Python documentation for now, but I can't 
seen to find a module to do just this. What I'm trying to do is inspect a 
variable at runtime. I know pickle can do the job, but I can't/don't want to 
read the output it produces. dir or inspect.getmembers won't do the job, they 
don't run recursive (they just display the current members, nothing below 
that). Isn't there some readymade module to recursively look at a class or 
instance?

Otherwise I'll have to write one... ;)

Any help greatly appreciated!

-- 
Yours sincerely,

	Heiko Wundram



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 18:37:33 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:37:33 -0400
Subject: optimization issues on an SGI system
In-Reply-To: <9mgsme$cmm$1@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENKLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mary Haley, running on an SGI box]
> ...
> If I didn't heed this warning, then the simple line of code:
>
>    p = 0 + 1.
>
> would cause python to core dump.  Turning off optimization fixed the
> problem.
> ...
> This partially optimized version was created by narrowing down the
> problem to a single file, and only turning off optimization for it.
> The file is "$PYTHON/Objects/floatobject.c".

Robert Minsk did an excellent analysis of what's probably the same problem,
and submitted a short floatobject.c patch to worm around it:

http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470&func=detail&aid=436193

Nothing wrong with the patch, but we haven't checked it in and don't intend
to (see the patch and associated bug report for details).

It would be nice if the SGI community stepped up to the plate and maintained
a matrix of SGI patches (Python release vs compiler version) needed to worm
around the never-ending stream of SGI -O bugs.

It would also be nice if SGI added Python to their compiler regression
suite, since, IIRC. no release of Python has ever worked 100% right on an
SGI box due to -O bugs (which vary across both Python and SGI releases).

BTW, I don't mean to impugn the SGI compilers:  they have more -O bugs than
most because their optimization is more aggressive than most.  OTOH, it's
not my job to fix their bugs either <wink>.




From thomas at gatsoft.no  Thu Aug 16 04:38:06 2001
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:38:06 GMT
Subject: simple example of bit manipulation in python?
Message-ID: <ODLe7.864$y9k.170724864@news.telia.no>

Hi,

Can anobody point to or provide a simple example of bit manipulation using
plain python?

Thomas




From case_vanhorsen at mentor.com  Mon Aug 13 20:20:51 2001
From: case_vanhorsen at mentor.com (Case Van Horsen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:20:51 -0700
Subject: PyQt binary for Windows....but?
References: <4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b787058$1@solnews.wv.mentorg.com>

I downloaded and installed the Qt stuff from Trolltech and while the
documentation implies that VC6 is needed, it didn't require any compiling.

I did find an incorrect path entry that was added to PATH by PyQT. There is
a double-backslash when only a single one is required.

I ran a couple of demos but no more.

Case

"Robert" <bobh at hslda.org> wrote in message
news:4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc at posting.google.com...
> I do not have VC6 which is needed to compile the Qt stuff from
> Trolltech. If memory serves me right wasn't this package about a year
> ago with a DLL? I used it then because everything came in the *box* so
> to speak. I really like the way Python works with Qt and would really
> like to use it.
>
> I DO play on getting Black Adder when it comes out of beta but I
> wanted to get a jumpstart on learning PyQt before the book comes out.
> Oh well...still in a holding pattern.
>
> Bob




From chrishbarker at home.net  Tue Aug 14 18:56:14 2001
From: chrishbarker at home.net (Chris Barker)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:56:14 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net> <9larpb$6knlu@owl.le.ac.uk> <3B79632D.A06275A1@home.net> <eppstein-B2F9BF.13153414082001@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3B79AC8E.4C0D3734@home.net>

David Eppstein wrote:

> I would think a pre-built Mac port is a much more obvious omission.

Actually, Any Mac port would be nice!!

I agree: that was almost a deal breaker for me. Of course, Tk doesn't
work all that well on the Mac anyway, and MacPython was only recently
merged with the main source tree, so the lack of Mac support is probably
NOT what has kept wx from becoming more of a standard.

-Chris

-- 
Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
ChrisHBarker at home.net                 ---           ---           ---
http://members.home.net/barkerlohmann ---@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Oil Spill Modeling                ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Water Resources Engineering       -------      ---------     --------    
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics --------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 17:01:26 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:01:26 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3B8965A9.8687AE9C@cs.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <qpoiotkbgol8dg0cljle74oqb5uq01ifj2@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:10:01 +0200, Richard van de Stadt
<stadt at cs.utwente.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<3B8965A9.8687AE9C at cs.utwente.nl>:

:Sheila King wrote:
:[...]
:> 
:> For CGI, I need file locking. The alternatives are (as I understand
:> them):
:> 
:> 1. Have a server running, which controls access to the files, thus
:> ensuring that only one process can write to the files at a time.
:[...]
:
:I missed the start of this thread, but doesn't then this work for you:
:
:def oneAtTheTime():
:	f = posixfile.open (someFilename, 'a')
:	f.lock ('w|')
:	f.write ('something') # or do something else that no other process may do at this time
:	f.lock ('u')
:	f.close()

Well, maybe it would if I were content to run only on a posix system. I
was trying to do something cross-platform (Unix/Windows).

:I've been using this for over 5 years. It controls access to a particular
:file for a system that collects submissions for conferences, where most
:submissions have to be dealt with very close to the deadline. (Designed
:in order to deals with multiple webform submissions, it also saved me a
:couple of times when a fileserver broke down. The submissions where
:simply blocked on the webserver until the fileserver came up again a
:few days later :-)

Maybe you need to update your code. The docs on the posix module (here:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-posixfile.html )
state:
"
Note: This module will become obsolete in a future release. The locking
operation that it provides is done better and more portably by the
fcntl.lockf() call. 
"

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Aug 30 16:52:19 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:52:19 -0000
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: None <mailman.999189586.17201.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <999204737.953241@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Gerson.Kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz):
...
| Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own print
| function - er - statement. So, is "print e2 e3 e4 e5" a valid statement ?
| No. Is "print e2,e3,e4,e5" ambiguous ? No. So what is the problem?
|
| I was quite astonished about how strongly people seemed to react to that
| idea. Please, my problem was that I had to modify print's behaviour, and
| couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, you have to
| enclose the arguments in brackets.

People enjoy hollering about things sometimes.  If you really want
to get somewhere here, you will probably have to rethink your approach.
Maybe "make print call my own function" is just as good for you as
"write my own print".  If you find that there's something about the
print implementation that needs to change for that, then perhaps you
can make a case for that.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From tefol at This.Is.Not.An.Address  Tue Aug 28 15:17:14 2001
From: tefol at This.Is.Not.An.Address (tefol)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:17:14 GMT
Subject: list scanner loop...?
Message-ID: <910C3737CtefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>

Hi there.

Another newbie, armed with Learning Python.  Setting myself a task of 
manipulating all the VirtualHost entries on a Linux Apache server....

The first thing I wanted to do was to clean up the number of newlines 
between eachvirthost entry...    Which then allowed me to make a list of 
VirtualHost entries...

Just because it was easy I decided to sort them,  though this will lead to 
another challenge later when I try to put a specific entry abck to the top 
of the list.

Next, and this was the main purpose of the project in the first place, I 
need to check through each VirtualHost to see if they are logging, and then 
if they aren't insert a TransferLog and ErrorLog entry into their 
VirtualHost.

This is where I get into a spot of bother.  I need to do something similart 
to creating a file scanner loop,  but instead of a file I need to use this 
list.   I just don't see how.

Is it possible?   If I write the list out to a file, then do a file scanner 
loop all the \n in each list entry will make everything screwy.


The code I have below works great,  I just can't see where to take it next 
to accomplish what I need.   Any advice, comments, even style guide would 
be greatly appreciated. 

Tefol


***

import string,re

Hosts = open(r'd:\proj\python\virts\virts.conf', 'r')
sVirts = Hosts.read()

sFile = re.sub('VirtualHost>\n*<VirtualHost ', 
'VirtualHost>\n\n<VirtualHost ', sVirts)
lFile = string.split(sFile, '\n\n')
lFile.sort()



output = open(r'd:\proj\python\virts\list.txt', 'w')

output.writelines(lFile)

output.close()

INL =  open(r'd:\proj\python\virts\list.txt', 'r') #Insert New Line
sINL = INL.read()

sSNL = re.sub('VirtualHost><VirtualHost ', 'VirtualHost>\n\n<VirtualHost ', 
sINL) #Substitute New Line

output = open(r'd:\proj\python\virts\file.txt', 'w')

output.write(sSNL)

output.close()


From goodger at users.sourceforge.net  Sat Aug 18 10:40:23 2001
From: goodger at users.sourceforge.net (David Goodger)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:40:23 -0400
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
In-Reply-To: <5hsqnt08u6n3cu7921c66cokcr6mkv79pn@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com> <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <tlfqnt84r54idgtstjanugkvhn86tp1qlq@4ax.com> <3B7D6351.2B6B2031@ccvcorp.com><5hsqnt08u6n3cu7921c66cokcr6mkv79pn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B7A3F696.16481%goodger@users.sourceforge.net>

Paul Moore <gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk> wrote on 2001-08-18 08:19:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:32:49 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>> Well, the alternative argument could be that, if you don't need to setup and
>> teardown in between various tests, then they could be coded as subtests of a
>> single, larger test...  OTOH, if you *do* have high setup/teardown overhead,
>> which *does* require being redone for each test, then coding it each time
>> would be a pain.  Lumping subtests together is easier than multiple copies of
>> setup/teardown...
> 
> I'm not sure I agree. The long and short of it is that both cases can happen.
> But look at my example "for real" (sort of)
> 
> class testSimpleQueries(unittest.TestCase):
>     def setUp(self):
>         # May take seconds to execute...
>         self.connection = DB.Connect(connect_str)
>     def tearDown(self):
>         self.connection.Disconnect()
>     def exec_query(self, q):
>         "Trivial helper to run a query"
>         return self.connection.Execute(q)
>     def testQ1(self):
>         "Simple query"
>         q = "select 1 from dual"
>         assertEqual(1, self.exec_query(q))
>     def testQ2(self):
>         "Exception when no rows returned"
>         q = "select 1 from dual where 1=0"
>         assertRaises(DB.Error, self.exec_query(q))
>     # And 100 more trivial queries...
> 
> You get the idea. The setup costs a *lot* in relative terms of time (each test
> query takes, say, 0.01 second). You really want to only do that once. But you
> don't really want to code a single huge test - it destroys the reporting of
> the individual test docstrings by unittest.main(). What do you do?

The setUp/tearDown mechanism can ensure that each test is independent of any
state left over from any other test. If you know your tests won't leave any
state behind, you could put your DB.connect() call in
testSimpleQueries.__init__. (Don't forget to call unittest.TestCase.__init__
though.) Again, this assumes that none of the individual tests will change
the state of the connection. To close the connection, you could put the
self.connection.Disconnect() call in testSimpleQueries.__del__; but there's
no guarantee when (or even if?) this will be called.

It might be useful for unittest.py to support a
"globalSetUp"/"globalTearDown" mechanism. globalSetUp would be called once
at the initialization of the TestCase, before any tests are run. Unlike
overriding __init__, there would be no need for globalSetUp to call the
overridden method in the superclass. globalTearDown would be called after
all the tests have been run. The timing of the call to globalTearDown would
be well known, unlike __del__.

> I don't say it's not possible to code this - just that the documentation
> doesn't make it clear *how*.
> 
> Remember, I'm arguing that the common cases should be simple to code - not
> that it's not possible to do these things. That makes people more likely to
> code unit tests.
> 
> So really, I'm suggesting two things - (1) beef up the documentation of
> unittest.main(), and give it a section to itself ("How to code a simple series
> of unit tests"), and (2) if necessary, beef up unittest.main() to cater for
> such common cases (I don't necessarily think this is required).

Good suggestions. Unfortunately, active developers can't always read every
newsgroup posting, even though they may be relevant. (I've copied this post
to Steve Purcell, who's the head of the PyUnit project.) Might I suggest
that, if you'd like your ideas to survive longer than the lifetime of a
Usenet posting (roughly equivalent to the lifespan of a fruit fly), you (a)
submit them as feature requests to the PyUnit project at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyunit/ or to Python at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/, and perhaps even (b) work on the
documentation and code and submit some patches? Anybody can do #a, even if
they can't do #b.

-- 
David Goodger    dgoodger at users.sourceforge.net    Open-source projects:
 - Python Docstring Processing System: http://docstring.sourceforge.net
 - reStructuredText: http://structuredtext.sourceforge.net
 - The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 18:23:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:23:37 +0200
Subject: Wake-on-LAN via Python?
References: <3B79C006.MD-1.4.15.angband@blueyonder.co.uk> <s3gcl9.hm3.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <9lhh5h027jb@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:s3gcl9.hm3.ln at gargamel.hqd-internal...
    ...
> Somebody who can read a bit of Perl cuold translate the Perl code to
Python,
> it's only a few lines.

Far more than 'a few' -- 215, though that includes docs & comments:-).

Assuming you can get all the docs & comments at original URL,

http://gsd.di.uminho.pt/jpo/software/wakeonlan/downloads/wakeonlan-0.40.tar.
gz

this should be a rough Python equivalent (sorry, can't test, no
wake-on-LAN PC around -- it will probably need fixes & tweaks):

#
# wake.py (main program)
#
import socket, getopt, sys, wakemod
VERSION = '0.40'
DEFAULT_IP = '255.255.255.255'
DEFAULT_PORT = socket.getservbyname('discard', 'udp')
#
# Process the command line
#
args, opts = getopt.getopt("hvp:i:f:")
fileis = None
for opt, val in opts:
    if opt=='-h': wakemod.usage(); sys.exit()
    elif opt=='-v': print "wakeonlan version",VERSION; sys.exit()
    elif opt=='-f': fileis = val
    elif opt=='-i': DEFAULT_IP = val
    elif opt=='-p': DEFAULT_PORT = val

if fileis is not None:
    wakemod.process_file(fileis, ('', DEFAULT_IP, DEFAULT_PORT))
elif not args: wakemod.usage(); sys.exit()

for arg in args:
    wakemod.wake(arg, DEFAULT_IP, DEFAULT_PORT)
#
# end of wake.py
#


#
# wakemod.py
#

import socket,re

# The 'magic packet' consists of 6 times 0xFF followed by 16 times
# the hardware address of the NIC. This sequence can be encapsulated
# in any kind of packet, in this case UDP to the discard port (9).
#
hwaddr_re = re.compile(':'.join(6*'[0-9A-Fa-f]{1,2}')+'$')
def wake(hwaddr, ipaddr, port):

    # check MAC address
    if not hwaddr_re.match(hwaddr):
        print "Invalid MAC address",hwaddr
        return

    # Generate magic sequence
    pkt = [chr(int(byte,16)) for byte in hwaddr.split(':')]
    pkt = chr(0xFF)*6 + ''.join(pkt*16)

    # Alocate socket and send packet
    raddr = socket.gethostbyname(ipaddr)
    proto = socket.getprotobyname('udp')
    them = raddr, proto
    S = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
        socket.SOCK_DGRAM, proto)
    S.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,
        socket.SO_BROADCAST, 1)

    print "sending magic packet to %s:%s with %s"%(
        ipaddr, port, hwaddr)
    S.sendto(pkt, 0, them)

    S.close()

#
# process_file
#
igno_re = re.compile(r'\s*(#.*)?$')
def process_file(filename, defaults):
    for line in open(filename).readlines():
        # ignore comments & empty lines
        if igno_re.match(line): continue
        words = line[:-1].split()
        if len(words)<3:
            words.extend(defaults[len(words):])
        hwaddr, ipaddr, port = word[:3]
        if hwaddr: wake(hwaddr, ipaddr, port)

def usage():
    print "see original module..."


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 17 04:14:49 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:14:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images
 in email sent with python.
In-Reply-To: <97ae44ee.0108162252.7c07a9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108171210530.869-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On 16 Aug 2001, Stephen wrote:

> Markus wrote: 
> 
> >> the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they
> >> display when the recipient views the message.  Just how does one
> >> compose a message like that with Python may I ask?
> >
> >As far as I know, those image _are_ attached. But the body of the 
> >message is html, and contains an img-tag that references the attachment.
> >
> >May be you can get a raw look on the source of such a message to 
> >further introspect this.
> 
> I checked this on Eudora and you're right.  Eudora detaches the image
> and places it in a folder called "Embedded" and then uses an IMG tag 
> <IMG SRC="file://.... Eudora\Embedded">

My understanding is that the place differs between different mailers. And
also it presents security hole if I call my image con\con.gif, for example
;-) If you use Windows, this will hang your machine. 

> Note that this is different from the usual place Eudora would store
> attachments so there has to be some way this is noted in MIME.
> 
> 
> 
> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote :

>  This is our <b>bold</b> new logo. Hope you like it.
>  <img src="http://www.yourserver.com/yourlogo.gif">

THis is not interesting. Interesting is really embedding.
And that is what doesn't have uniform standard, if I am not
mistaken.

Another way to embed image is to use

X-faces: encodeddata

but I never used that too ;-)

>  Love Steve
> 
> Then Microsoft Outlook will send it as is and you'll receive the exact
> same HTML as above. But Outlook Express will actually include the image
> and send it as an 'embedded' image as described previously.



Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From mats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug 22 13:06:36 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:06:36 GMT
Subject: base classes
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000@spel21.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <3b83e450.48162694@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:48:45 +0200, Fredrik Stenberg
<mail at fredriks.org> wrote:

:On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Pete wrote:
:> One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute called
:> 'a'
:> class a1:
:>     def __init__( self ):
:>         self.a = 1
:> class a2:
:>     def __init__( self ):
:>         self.a = 2
:> class aa( a1, a2 ):
:>     def __init__( self ):
:>         a1.__init__( self )
:>         a2.__init__( self )
:>
:> AA = aa()
:> print AA.__dict__
:> --------------------------------------
:> this code prints:
:> {'a': 2}


:> The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
:> workaround?

I guess we're all not sure what it is you want.  As you see, it's not
an /error/ for two base classes to provide the same attribute. What
you've said is that you want an instance of 'aa' to have an attribute
'a',  and so it does.  One is tempted to ask "what's the problem?".

As Fredrik pointed out, if you want the symbols provided by each base
class to automatically remain separate, you can use the name mangling
trick (preface the attribute name with double underscore), but then
you have to use the mangled names in the instance...



Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From ontologia at iname.com  Mon Aug 27 14:38:20 2001
From: ontologia at iname.com (Ilia)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 11:38:20 -0700
Subject: Embedded python can't find *.pyd under Win32/VC 6.0
Message-ID: <afd03b49.0108271038.132af478@posting.google.com>

I am embedding python application into some C++ application. I have
successfully compiled the application and it loads pure python lib
modules (disposed in regular location in python installation) ok.

But when some pure python module tries to load an extension modlule
(*.pyz)
like:

import zlib 

(and zlib is zlib.pyd module) embedded Python throws an exception: 

No module named zlib

But regular python loads this module ok...

Any ideas how to make embedded python see extensions? I put the
modules in different pathes (including those where visible pure python
modules live) -
it does not help...

Ilia


From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  6 06:53:20 2001
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:53:20 +0100
Subject: PyQt for Windows Status
Message-ID: <3B94DA83@www.twigger.co.uk>

As people have been asking, this is the current status of PyQt with the Qt 
non-commercial version.

I hope to release PyQt v2.5 next weekend. This will include a pre-compiled 
Windows package for Qt non-commercial. The issues are all resolved - the 
changes will be committed to CVS later today.

Phil




From new_name at mit.edu  Thu Aug  2 15:17:18 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 15:17:18 -0400
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org> <20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net> <etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <cpg0bay3l5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <etd1ymuff0h.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

Cool, thanks for letting me know.  I guess the time I tried it and
couldn't get through was just bad luck.

Alex.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Mon Aug 27 08:30:50 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 05:30:50 -0700
Subject: line continuations with backslash
References: <mailman.998790578.9547.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4rqt8z2d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:
> > so why not this then:
> >
> >     x = long("123"
> >              "456"
> >              "789")
> >
> > which saves all the splitting and joining and is (nearly) as readable?
> 
> Because it's not as readable, or as easy to edit.  The cost of splitting and
> joining on one-shot initialization code is insignificant, most likely too
> small to measure.

The cpu costs of splitting and joining at initialization are
insignificant but writing out the numbers in ascii instead of in
marshalled form makes the .pyc files somewhat bigger (a few hundred
bytes in this situation).  That shouldn't be disastrous but it strikes
me as unnecessary bloat.  Being able to split literals with backslash
wouldn't mess up the language in any way I can easily see.

Btw, the target computer is a handheld with limited memory and whose
file system is entirely in ram, so burning space unnecessarily in the
.pyc hurts a little more than it would on a pc with gigabytes of disk
available.


From ignacio at openservices.net  Mon Aug 20 14:32:43 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:32:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Opening New files
In-Reply-To: <3b814f34_3@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201430220.11734-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Mikhael Loo wrote:

> What code do you used to open a new file.  I've been opening existing files
> on MSW but I'm having trouble with my files and I think  that I may need to
> use something besides open() if the file doesn't already exists.
>
>   -Mikhael

Passing 'w' or 'wb' will create a new file or truncate an existing file and
return a write-only file object.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 10:57:11 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:57:11 +0200
Subject: mod-python or pypython
References: <Pine.A41.4.21.0108011335040.25694-100000@research2.asu.edu> <9k9sd6$ms4$1@chabry.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9kbpo80rs@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Titus Brown" <t at chabry.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:9k9sd6$ms4$1 at chabry.caltech.edu...
    ...
> If you're stuck with Apache for technical or ideological reasons, you
should
> also take a look at mod_snake.  (I assume you meant mod_python and
pyapache
> above, right?)  mod_snake sounds like it is very clean, and I've heard
several
> different complaints about the state of mod_python and pyapache,
additionally.

If one wanted to experiment with the coming Apache 2.0, do
any or all of the Python-enabling modules support that...?


Alex





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  1 17:39:20 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 17:39:20 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <9jmjne$q54$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <3b602daf.1623450@nntp.sprynet.com> <slrn9m111q.e6f.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local> <dOoGUKA3PKY7EwWa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <cpsnfi2z9w.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <$dK+wKA$tZY7Ewin@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <3b61a98d$0$11917@wodc7nh0.news.uu.net> <3B61B01F.6C6B2B5D@Lugoj.Com> <6c8b7eb9.0107271358.4783d9c1@posting.google.com> <3B66F89E.77E64413@ccvcorp.com> <9k8vpd0hn2@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ud76fiho7.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> Right.  Guido's forte is doing the right thing, as opposed to
> rationalizing WHY it's right.
(...)
> [Always excepting print>> of course...:-)]

Not to worry - we always mentally add that codicil to any posting
along these lines that you might make :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From nospam at home.com  Fri Aug 10 14:39:12 2001
From: nospam at home.com (Anonymous User)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:39:12 GMT
Subject: this string, what encoding?
Message-ID: <kTVc7.154167$%a.6707501@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>

Hi, is there a way to find out what encoding a string is in?  (This
question--heck, this entire post--may not make any sense, in which case it
merely reveals my ignorance.)

Here's why I'm driven to ask this question:

 import xml.dom.minidom
 foo = '<foo/>'
 fooDoc = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(foo)
 fooXml = fooDoc.toxml()
 try:
     fooDoc2 = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(fooXml)
 except TypeError:
     print 'Round-tripping failed.'

The reason this fails is that cStringIO, which is used by
xml.dom.pulldom.parseString, rejects unicode strings, as noted here:


http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=216388&group_id=547
0&atid=105470

So, I figured, I'd workaround this by adding the following modification to
pulldom.py:

def parseString(string, parser=None):
    try:
        from cStringIO import StringIO
        # <fixme type="workaround">
        # this is a temporary workaround since cStringIO doesn't accept
unicode input as noted here:
        #
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=216388&group_id=547
0&atid=105470
        string = string.encode('utf-8')
        # </fixme>
    except ImportError:
        from StringIO import StringIO

Rather than just always encoding the string, I'd like to be able to do
something like this (pseudocode):

    # if the string is not ASCII, make it so
    if string.encoding != 'utf-8':
        string = string.encode('utf-8')

Thanks,

// mark





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Sat Aug 25 12:21:58 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 16:21:58 GMT
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
References: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1> <iah8m9.pic.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9ofk55.ipu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:47:30 +0200, gradha at iname.com <gradha at iname.com> pisze:

> ./test.py:0: SyntaxWarning: name 'expresion_include' is assigned to before global declaration

'global' declarations at module scope do nothing. The warning makes
sense at function scope, where a programmer could expect that code
above the 'global' declaration refers to a local variable.

Solution: remove the 'global' declaration. The warning should perhaps
be changed to "global declaration is redundant at module scope" (after
it is taught to distinguish between these cases).

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From just at letterror.com  Fri Aug 10 02:53:05 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:53:05 +0200
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com>

Tim Peters wrote:

> [gods1child]
> > All this heated discussion over floats has led me to wonder if we need
> > to lighten up a little bit and celebrate the fact that were close to
> > 100,000 (94,100 as of this moment) messages on this news-group
> 
> [Garry Hodgson]
> > 94,100?  is that cumulative, or just today?
> > it sometimes seems like the latter.
> 
> Actually, I think it was just that week.
> 
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/python-list/
> 
> has over 150,000 c.l.py msgs archived, and my logs show that I read 50,317
> before 2001 began.  Unfortunately, I only generate summary reports once per
> year, so I can't yet tell you how many I've read since then.
> 
> but-millions-seems-a-good-guess-ly y'rs  - tim

What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:

  http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/

Just


From Rebecca.R.Hepper at seagate.com  Thu Aug  2 15:02:07 2001
From: Rebecca.R.Hepper at seagate.com (Rebecca Hepper)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 12:02:07 -0700
Subject: Help using telnetlib to install/remove rpms
Message-ID: <93c49bf6.0108021102.402154db@posting.google.com>

Hello All, 

I recently began looking at trying to use telnetlib to remove an old
rpm and install a new rpm.  I can manually telnet to the machine and
install/remove rpms but I can't get my python code to work.  The login
works OK but the erasing and installing of the rpms does not work.  I
have pasted my code below.  Can you see something that I have done
wrong?

Also, do you have any ideas on how I can do an "rpm -q myrpm" and get
the exact version number so I know what to erase?

Thank you.


max_wait = 30
	
tn=Telnet(ipAddress)
tn.read_until("login: ", max_wait)
tn.write("username\n")
tn.read_until("Password: ", max_wait)
tn.write("password\n")
	
# change to superuser, can't install rpm as normal user
tn.write("su\n")
tn.read_until("Password: ", max_wait)
tn.write("password\n")

tn.write("rpm -e myrpm-7.00-1\n")
tn.write("rpm -i myrpm-7.01-1.i386.rpm\n")
tn.write("exit\n")


From senux at senux.com.NOSPAM  Tue Aug 14 01:41:01 2001
From: senux at senux.com.NOSPAM (Brian Lee)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 05:41:01 GMT
Subject: dynamic updating DNS
Message-ID: <3B78BA37.7080209@senux.com.NOSPAM>

Hi, I read a article about dynamic updating DNS information by
Perl. Is it possible to control and update DNS by Python?
Is there any related module to update DNS information? Or any
wrappers of ``nsupdate'' command?

 - Brian,.



From martin at strakt.com  Mon Aug 13 04:16:57 2001
From: martin at strakt.com (Martin Sjögren)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:16:57 +0200
Subject: sprintf extensions
Message-ID: <20010813101657.A4896@strakt.com>

Hi fellas

There is one thing I really like about (the GNU version at least) sprintf,
and that is the n$ extensions:

  sprintf(buf, "%2$s  %1$s", "foo", "bar");

gives buf the value "bar  foo".

Would it be possible to do this in Python?

Martin

-- 
Martin Sj?gren
  martin at strakt.com              ICQ : 41245059
  Phone: +46 (0)31 405242        Cell: +46 (0)739 169191
  GPG key: http://www.strakt.com/~martin/gpg.html



From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 13:04:14 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:04:14 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: pydoc&readline Re: some questions unanswered - new programmer
 ...
In-Reply-To: <20010805172629.N626@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052054450.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Thomas Wouters wrote:

>On Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:54:10AM +0400, Roman Suzi wrote:
>
>> >I have this in my PYTHONSTARTUP file.  Pydoc is pretty damn cool.
>
>> It could be even cooler if it supported readline!
>
>Why/how do you want pydoc to support readline ? Isn't it enough that the
>interpreter supports readline ?
>
>import readline,rlcompleter
>readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

If it is for free, why not? It is very common that I see:

help> ^[[A

because I hoped to get history and pressed up-arrow, etc, etc

I think the interactive environment must not change it's properties to be
user-friendly. And now I need to remember where I can use readline and
where not! This makes fingers nervous.

For example, pydoc could let me autocomplete modules names
(interpreter's readline doesn't allow this!) and help topics.
More than that, if I completed module name and try to complete
after dot, I will receive usual "intellisense", for example:

help> dircache.
dircache.__all__   dircache.__name__  dircache.listdir   dircache.reset
dircache.__doc__   dircache.annotate  dircache.opendir
dircache.__file__  dircache.cache     dircache.os
help> dircache.

And I am sure that help> and >>> must have shared histories. This will
make easy to return to interpreter with names already typed. This
 could be good addition to readline in interactive prompt.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Aug 17 01:20:19 2001
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:20:19 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com> <9li8pj$1f6$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-787BEA.22201916082001@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <9li8pj$1f6$1 at slb3.atl.mindspring.net>,
 "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote:

> Alan Green wrote:
> >1. IDLE
> >2. IDLEfork
> >3. PythonWin
> >4. Komodo
> >5. PythonWorks Pro
> >6. BlackAdder
> >7. VisualPython
> 
> You left out
> 8. Wing IDE from http://archaeopteryx.com/

I use something called "Python IDE" that came with the MacPython 
installation.  Is it one of the above, or something else?
-- 
David Eppstein       UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
eppstein at ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/


From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 31 02:02:39 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:02:39 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Python 2.1.1-3 RPMs updated with LFS
In-Reply-To: <20010830235029.A19626@tummy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108310957140.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sean Reifschneider wrote:

Hi, Sean!

I have problems with your src.rpms on my RedHat 6.2.

expat.src.rpm doesnt produce required expat-devel and thus I can't satisfy
that dependency. Also it would be nice if rpms were universal accross
RedHat 5.x-7.x. I just do not know where to find right expat rpms.
I know, lacking expat-devel is RedHat's fault.

Same problem with db1.

Do you have plans making at least RH 6.x compatible src RPMs?
(see "compiling Python 2.1.1" thread in c.l.p. several days ago)

Thank you!

> Guido has put up my RPMs for Python 2.1.1 (thanks) at:
> 
>    http://www.python.org/2.1.1/rpms.html
> 
> This includes Large File Support which enables the writing of files larger
> than 2GB.  This also works around the problem with the interpreter exiting
> when a file reaches 2GB.
> 
> Included above are links to the SRPM (which includes tunable entries at the
> top of the .spec file.  Also included are binary RPMs built against RedHat
> 7.1.
> 
> To build binaries for your specific system, download the .src.rpm and do
> "rpm --rebuild python2-2.1.1-3.src.rpm", or install it and modify the
> settings in the .spec file, then rebuild with "rpm -ba python-2.1.spec".
> 
> Enjoy,
> Sean
> 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 09:11:28 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:11:28 -0400
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:36:32 +0400."
             <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108111028580.5959-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108111028580.5959-100000@rnd.onego.ru> 
Message-ID: <200108111311.JAA05525@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

[me]
> >But maybe more importantly, I don't know how to support this esoteric
> >feature after the type/class unification is complete.  Under the new
> >system, not all instances are born the same: instances may have slots
> >for instance variables rather than a __dict__ -- using slots makes for
> >more space-efficient instances.  (Having a __dict__ is still the
> >default, and an instance can have both slots and a __dict__.)

[Roman Suzi]

> Couldn't slots just be mapped to __dict__ in case somebody accesses it?
> Will __dict__ reflect available slots?

I wasn't clear.  It's not about whether or not something called
__dict__ is visible.  It's about whether the object lay-out of the old
and new class are compatible.

> I know that Python docs never guarateed __dict__ to be the same forever,
> but it is used in classes to do attribute assignments in __setattr__ and
> similar circumstances...

Incidentally, the new system doesn't require manipulating __dict__ for
this purpose.  First of all, you can use "getset attributes" to trap
specific attributes (see http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html).
Second, a typical __getattr__ override can now use object.__getattr__
to access the default implementation.  This is important given that
you don't always have a __dict__. :)

> Then slots are statically-named attributes (if I understood correctly).
> Maybe it will be honest to give some kind of __attrlist__ attribute which
> will be similar to __dict__ but devoted to those static slots?

Static slots are described by class attributes.  Read PEP 252.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 05:41:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:41:24 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com>

"gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> wrote in message
news:mailman.997499838.6140.python-list at python.org...
> From: Jeremy and Debra Jones <dnjjones at yahoo.com>
> >
> > It seems like if you were to do it in a rdbms, you would need at least
two
> > tables:
    ...
> No, one table:
> TBL
> ( PARENT, CHILD, CHILD_ATRIBUTE1,..,
>  PRIMARY KEY (PARENT, CHILD))

Something wrong with this constraint, since it implies a child may
have multiple parents.  I think CHILD by itself needs to be the
primary key.  Otherwise I agree -- no need to use multiple tables
for a parent/child relationship.  Rather, since children appear to
have varying attributes, you'll need to split THOSE off into a table
of their own (with CHILD as a foreign key).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 11:31:29 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:31:29 +0200
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
References: <mailman.997020711.25657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kmdbg0156t@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997020711.25657.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> >What's wrong with:
> >
> >import calendar, string
> >def calt(year, month):
> >    month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
> >    scal = ''
> >    scal += "<B>%s.%s</B>" % (month, year)
> >    scal += "<TABLE BORDER=1>"
> >    for week in month_cal:
> >      scal += "\n<TR>"
> >      for day in week:
> >        scal += "<TD>%s</TD>" % (day or "&nbsp;")
> >      scal += "</TR>"
> >    scal += "</TABLE>"
> >    return scal
>
> Except for long table you get far too many concatenations.
> (Well, calendar is not that long).

It's still inferior style to build up a big-gish string by += of
a lot of small ones, but that's easily fixed, e.g (warning,
untested code):

def calt(year, month):
    scal = ["<B>%s.%s</B>" % (month, year),
               "<TABLE BORDER=1>"]
    for week in month_cal:
        scal.append("\n<TR>")
        scal.extend(["<TD>%s</TD>" % (day or "&nbsp;")
            for day in week])
        scal.append("</TR>")
    scal.append("</TABLE>")
    return ''.join(scal)


Alex





From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug 30 09:36:22 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:36:22 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Is Python powerful enough for this?
In-Reply-To: <3B8E4794.9988.1181E6F@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108301731290.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, A wrote:

> Hi,
> I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input 
> fields and also some hidden fields. 
> How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
> like
> Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3
> 
> For example:
> I have a following web page
> <html>
> 
> <head>
> </head>
> <body>
> <form method="POST" action="c.cgi">
>   <p><input type="text" name="T1" size="20"></p>
>   <p><input type="checkbox" name="C1" value="ON"></p>
>   <p><textarea rows="2" name="S1" cols="20"></textarea></p>
>   <p><input type="submit" value="Submit" name="B1"><input 
> type="reset" value="Reset" name="B2"></p>
> </form>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> >From the above 
> I would like to receive 
> T1=&S1=&C1=&B1=Submit

I do not follow what are you trying to do?

Do you need to convert HTML input into corresponding urlencoded
output as if the form were filled empty?

For this you can make your htmllib.HTMLParser and make handlers for
form-specific tags. (In fact, sgmllib.SGMLParser is even easier to use for
this task).

And what if there are several forms on the page?
 
> Thank you for help.
> Ladislav

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From simonb at webone.com.au  Mon Aug  6 11:03:15 2001
From: simonb at webone.com.au (simonb at webone.com.au)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 01:03:15 +1000
Subject: Python and Gtk
References: <9klkjv$1p9$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3B6EB1B3.90601@webone.com.au>



>I begin with Python and Gtk and I have some unresolved question : 
>
>I use Gtkinter and I have notice that a lot of gtk (or gdk) object miss in 
>the gtk.py module. How can I do when I need these objects (for example 
>Gdkfont)?
>
do you mean pygtk?
if not, try it, it is great!
email list is: pygtk at daa.com.au
The best way to start with pygtk is
to start working with gtk and then
look at the pygtk examples,
and then some detective work...

>
>Where can I find the prototype (type of arguments) of a callback function 
>must have (for example where can I find the type of arguments of a button 
>pressed callback funtion)?
>
>Djoum?
>
>PS : I apologize for my english... (i am french)
>



From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Wed Aug 22 20:25:11 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:25:11 +1000
Subject: API Fuction  ??
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010823002511Z-53994@emi1.EMI>

Hi all,

Is there a function that I can display a list of users in server and 
when they last log on ??
API function may be ??

Thanks in advance,
Kim,




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:13:32 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:13:32 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical data problem
References: <eric7.138732$um3.816234@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <9ktk7q01top@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Jeremy Jones" <dnjjones at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eric7.138732$um3.816234 at typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...
    ...
> I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
> and that the parents and children should be aware of
> one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
> the parent should be aware of its children and
> children should be aware of their parents).  By

This implies loops-of-references -- which may be
all right, but may interfere with automatic garbage
collection and some other operations.  Just be
aware of this -- the weak-references module is
there to help you with this specific issue in
some future refactoring of your code, should you
need to eliminate the loops-of-references.

> dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
> very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
> in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
> of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
> variable and will be defined at run time.  I would

Fine, no problem.

> prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.

I don't get this.  You've described the general nature
of the topology of a graph of objects -- child ones,
parent ones, relationships between them, etc.  What's
this now about "contained in one object"?  You can have
a general 'this is my whole object-network' object
whose attributes let you access each and every one
of the actual objects (children, parents, &c), if
that is what you mean -- but the actual objects will
of course be *several* objects, not ONE.

>  Right now, I have the following, which is a three
> tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
> other:
>
> ################################
> cs1_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
> cs1_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
> cs2_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
> cs2_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
> cs2_cmd3 = {'CLOSE2': 'RESULTS'}
> cs3_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
> cs3_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
>
> command_set1 = {'cmd1': cs1_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs1_cmd2}
> command_set2 = {'cmd1': cs2_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs2_cmd2,
> 'cmd3': cs2_cmd3}
> command_set3 = {'cmd1': cs3_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs3_cmd2}
>
> test_set = {'TEST1': command_set1,'TEST2':
> command_set2,'TEST3': command_set3}
> #################################
>
> which I can manipulate with much weeping gnashing of

So the test_set is the 'whole network object', the
command_set* objects are the 'parents', and the
csX_cmdY objects are the 'children', right?

> teeth.  A couple of problems with this (other than the
> fact that it is just plain hideous to look at):
>
> 1) A child doesn't really know who its parent is.

Right.  So, let's tell the child who its parent is:

class Node:
    def __init__(self, parent=None, **kwds):
        self.parent = parent
        self.dict = kwds

Now, we can set a child's parent directly, with
child.parent = someParent.  At some point you may
want to have a method called when the parent is
set or changed, but let's keep things as simple
as possible -- to start with, direct access to
attributes is simplest.

So, with this tiny auxiliary class, your example
becomes (let's call your example "step 0", and
the following one "step 1"):

cs1_cmd1 = Node(OPEN='RESULTS')
cs1_cmd2 = Node(CLOSE='RESULTS')
cs2_cmd1 = Node(OPEN='RESULTS')
cs2_cmd2 = Node(CLOSE='RESULTS')
cs2_cmd3 = Node(CLOSE2='RESULTS')
cs3_cmd1 = Node(OPEN='RESULTS')
cs3_cmd2 = Node(CLOSE='RESULTS')
command_set1 = Node(cmd1=cs1_cmd1, cmd2=cs1_cmd2)
cs1_cmd1.parent = cs1_cmd2.parent = command_set1
command_set2 = Node(cmd1=cs2_cmd1, cmd2=cs2_cmd2,
        cmd3=cs2_cmd3)
cs2_cmd1.parent = cs2_cmd2.parent = \
    cs2_cmd3.parent = command_set2
command_set3 = Node(cmd1=cs3_cmd1, cmd2=cs3_cmd2)
cs3_cmd1.parent = cs3_cmd2.parent = command_set3
test_set = Node(TEST1=command_set1, TEST2=command_set2,
        TEST33=command_set3)
command_set1.parent = command_set2.parent = \
    commmand_set3.parent = test_set

Now, that's better, but clearly we can see it's
very fussy and error-prone to have to set the
parent attribute of every child manually after
we've created the parent.  Couldn't we automate
this?  Of course we could, giving us "step 2":

class Node:
    def __init__(self, parent=None, **kwds):
        self.parent = parent
        self.dict = kwds
        for child in kwds.values():
            try: child.parent = self
            except (TypeError,AttributeError): pass

Since the children are the values in the kwds dictionary,
we just loop over them, trying to set the parent
attribute appropriately for each -- we do the latter
in a try/except, since (as the cs_cmd1 &c show) the
children MIGHT not be of types for which we can set
the parent attribute, and that's OK.  With this new
and improved class Node, step 2 then becomes:

cs1_cmd1 = Node(OPEN='RESULTS')
    # like in step 1, 6 more lines like this snipped
command_set1 = Node(cmd1=cs1_cmd1, cmd2=cs1_cmd2)
command_set2 = Node(cmd1=cs2_cmd1, cmd2=cs2_cmd2,
        cmd3=cs2_cmd3)
command_set3 = Node(cmd1=cs3_cmd1, cmd2=cs3_cmd2)
test_set = Node(TEST1=command_set1, TEST2=command_set2,
        TEST33=command_set3)

Much better, I think.  Now, let's move to your
second problem:

> 2) The data is not dynamic: it has to be built from
> within the script at design time and not run time.

So let's do it at runtime.  Presumably the code
can read a text file giving the data about the
children and parents and interpret it.  If you
think about it, the text file will be a little
language, and it's a hard job designing a better
language than Python, so, why not use Python for
the purposes?  You can just execfile(...) a user
script that adds as many Node objects as you
want, maybe.  But if for some reason you have
other formats of text files, it may not be all
that hard to interpret them.  Suppose for example
that what you have is a text full of lines of
either of the two forms:

DATA name1 name2 data
CHILD name1 name2 name3

where the first form means: add string 'data'
(more or less arbitrary) as entry named as per
name2 in Node named as per name1, creating the
Node if need be; and the second form means,
add the Node named name3 as child named as per
name2 in Node named as per name1, creating Nodes
if need be.
To interpret such a 'little program' and
create the corresponding data structure,
we need a name-to-Nodeobject dictionary --
we could use variables, but that's by far
too much trouble -- so let's use an explicit
dictionary instead, wrapped in a class for
convenience.

Needed infrastructure for this, e.g:
class Nodenames:
    def __init__(self):
        self.namedict = {}
    def get(self, name):
        return self.namedict.setdefault(
            name, Node())

and the process of adding a file of the
above little-language given a Nodenames
instance becomes:

def addafile(thefile, nodenames):
    for line in thefile.readlines():
        line = line.strip()   # remove whitespace
        # let's accept empty lines & comments too
        if line='' or line.startswith('#'): continue
        try:
            cmd, name1, name2, rest = line.split(' ',3)
        except ValueError:
            print "Too few fields in line (%s), skipped"%line
            continue
        if cmd=="DATA":
            thenode = nodenames.get(name1)
            thenode.dict[name2] = rest
        elif cmd=="CHILD":
            parent = nodenames.get(name1)
            child = nodenames.get(name3)
            parent.dict[name2] = child
            child.parent = parent
        else:
            print "Invalid cmd (%s) in line (%s), skipped"%(
                cmd, line)

There -- not too bad, right?  Now, this IS untested
code (and one should always write the test code
first, THEN the code that makes the test pass...!),
so it might not work, but I hope you get the
general idea anyway.

> 3) On the dynamic topic, I can't just add a child.  I
> have to create kind of a reference in the parent to
> another dictionary.

See above -- we do add a child via the reference in
the parent &c.  No problem.

> 4) It is scattered across 11 dictionaries (even though
> it has one base dictionary that acts as the root
> parent).

And this is a problem BECAUSE...?  In other words,
you've described a natural consequence of how a
dynamically built network of nodes *WANTS* to be --
"scattered" across several node objects (each of
which uses one or more dictionaries as the most
normal Pythonic way to implement itself, of course).


> I want to do the above more elegantly, more concisely
> and less painfully.  I have read the python FAQ,
> searched usenet, searched Google, scoured
> www.python.org and have only come up with a few
> possibilities for doing what I want to do (such as
> metaclasses and acquisition and some virtual file
> systems), but I am not sure that they will address the
> solution for the problem that I have.

Keep It Simple, Sil^H^H^H Jeremy: metaclasses and
acquisition are BY FAR overkill for your needs.


> Does anyone have any ideas on how I can begin to
> attack my problem?  Does anyone have any ideas on
> specific methodologies for dynamically named
> hierarchical data?

There's a Design Pattern that handles this, and
it's implemented in the Node class above -- use
the same class for both parents and children
since parents can also be children (to put it in
the simplest of terms:-).  You could use XML,
of course (it's all about named hierarchical
data), but, again -- avoid overkill...


Alex





From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Thu Aug 30 09:16:59 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:16:59 -0500
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA5348@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

Oh, Alex.  ME is just another marketing ploy for Uncle Bill to get rich,
just as XP is.  A friend of mind builds custom made PC's for a living, and
so many of her customer's have problems with ME.  And with XP, you have to
register everything before you use it -- via phone or internet.  I just got
a new version of Word, and it gives me 50 times to register, before it boots
me out of word.  Now Unix on the other hand, and Linux in particular.
That's a good, solid machine.  And has anyone tried the free Star Office
from Sun?  It gives Microsoft a run for their money.  And I run Windows 98,
second edition, at home (which is really a bug release of Windows 95).  The
only good Windows version for the consumer to run.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleax at aleax.it]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 5:20 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Hello people. I have some questions


"jeroen paul goudsmit" <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594 at pollux.casema.net...
> Thank you all so much. I'll just go to www.python.org to download it all.
>
> (my pc is:   os - Windows ME (it sucks!)

Alas, yes, it does.  I don't go in for Microsoft-bashing, and I find
Win98 somewhat usable (not stable, sigh, but, oh well), and NT4 in the
latest SP more than usable, but ME is definitely the pits, and I'm not
too convinced about /2000 either.

If you have some diskspace to spare, you might want to look into
http://www.winlinux.net/2001/ (there are other excellent Linux
versions designed to fit in well with Microsoft OS's, but AFAIK
Winlinux/2001 is the only one that specifically supports ME).

Python runs just as well on Win/* systems as on Linux, BSD, &c
ones, but it cannot fully compensate for lack of underlying OS
quality -- and Unix-like OS's are just heads and shoulders above
MS's offers in the /95/98/ME line.  Winlinux won't give you the
FULL potential benefits of Linux -- it's designed so that you
don't have to repartition your disk, etc, so it shares the weak
FAT-based filesystem common to those MS OS's -- a Linux running
on its own filesystem (particularly on its own partitions) would
enhance your box by much more, BUT you wouldn't be moving so
smoothly between the Win side (where you presumably have some
applications you want to keep using) and the Linux side (where
there are zillions of excellent free applications, and things in
general run so much better).

>                   processor - AMD duron 800 mhz (sucks too)

No way -- it's a great little chip.  No Athlon, sure, but it
still beats the pants off any (BAH) Celeron and most Pentiums
too.  Depending on your motherboard/BIOS details, the stepping
level of your Duron chip, how good are your power supply, your
RAM, and particularly your cooling-system, you may well be able
to overclock your machine and squeeze another 10% or 20% of
raw CPU performance from it, by the way.

Right now, as my home-LAN's router/firewall/gateway/proxybox,
I'm setting up an old Pentium-90, 64MB-RAM machine (with Linux,
so far, though I _am_ looking hard at OpenBSD, for that sense
of total security it gives:-), but I'm also hungrily eyeing a
special offer at my local supermarket -- US$500 for a Duron-900,
128M RAM, 20G IDE disk, fast CDROM, decent monitor/video/sound/&c
(which I don't need for its job, though), *and a PCI bus* (rather
than the bad old ISA in my old box) so I could mount 2 or 3 cheap
ethernet cards without hassles.  This way I could run a decently
configured Squid and other 'heavy' proxies right on the box...
(not really consistent with maximum-security ideas, but...).


>                   RAM - 128 (getting 128 extra next saturday...)

The more the merrier, *as long as* your OS doesn't get its
knickers in a twist the way /95/98/ME sometimes do.  Unix-like
OS's are particularly good at exploiting whatever amount of
RAM you have, and Win NT and 2000 not too bad at it, but the
cheaper/home-oriented MS OS's aren't quite as clever about it.


> I'm 14 years old and program only form the fun.

Programming is the most fun-filled activity I've ever tried
(and I've tried many, as my life's been quite a big longer
than yours so far:-), *particularly* with Python.  Overclocking
and playing with Unix-ish OS's aren't too far behind, though!-)


Alex








From relfx at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  9 02:51:50 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 02:51:50 -0400
Subject: Popmail.py Need help.....................
References: <%Pnc7.5649$V43.473350@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <qh74ntsdahuehhlmmcv40hupp0o8jjlnll@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Ilqc7.5669$Ke7.359756@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Yes, that's what it was it was a major typo on my part but thanks for all
the help guys.

Relfx





From markus at schabi.de  Fri Aug 10 12:08:34 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:08:34 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B703AF5.620B1108@ccvcorp.com> <14665424.k6j6fTUFtl@lunix.schabi.de> <slrn9n5veb.72j.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <2087463.Z34EBddDVK@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Dylan Thurston <dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu> schrub:

>>Yes - but this means "count from the other end" instead of "go
>>backwards from index 0"
> 
> Only if you use the broken __getslice__ interface.  If you use the
> __getitem__ interface (passed a slice object) you can do whatever you
> want.

Thanks for the hint - I just read the current documentation on the web 
site.

It seems that the Book I read - although it describes python 2 - is a 
little outdated in this respect.

But they have lots of other mistakes in there (the "hardest" one is 
that they don't mention or describe the == operator), although they 
have a good and easy to understand style in writing.

Should anybody be interested: It's "Python 2 - Einf?hrung und Referenz 
der objektorientierten Skriptsprache", by Martion von L?wis and Nils 
Fischbeck, second print, Addison-Wesley 2001

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 00:07:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:07:30 -0500
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <7xzo90pw17.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1>
        <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org>
        <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <Xns90FE78C79E380duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
        <7xzo90pw17.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15227.18178.202716.285276@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> Xrange is apparently a primitive type, which sounds like a big
    Paul> kludge.  Maybe in Python 2.2 they can make it into an iterator.
    Paul> That would be the right way to deal with this problem.

Problem there is that there are some semantics to xrange in that "dark
corner corner over there where the naughty boys play" that would disappear
if xrange was turned into an iterator.  See:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0260.html

It will happen...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Aug  3 01:15:49 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:15:49 +1200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com> <psoy9p34lvy.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <f8Z97.12190$9i1.1016409@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <9kbchb02equ@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B6A3385.7E121A1D@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> Not
> to mention the peculiar implication of having INTEGER ranges as a
> built-in language feature, and REAL ranges nowhere to be seen

I think that's because various other language features
made use of the existence of ordinal subrange types,
such as array indexes and set types. There is nowhere
else in the language that real subranges are used,
so presumably Mr. Wirth didn't consider there was
enough justification for building them in.

Also, given the imprecision of comparing floats,
it could be difficult to pin down whether a given
value should be considered legal for a given
subrange in some cases. Discrete subranges are
much easier to write precise statements about
in language definitions.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com  Fri Aug 31 09:00:50 2001
From: GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com (GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:30:50 +0530
Subject: [OT? -URGENT] how to tell a tcl/tk prog abt the installed tcl/tk8
	.3 in python2.0 on windowsNT ?
Message-ID: <E1B786DCFA6ED511A0390008C7289E47634F4B@ICICIBACK3>

hi,

Need to get a visual regex builder working... it's written tcl/tk.
It's a single 50k tcl prog file. I need to pass it to 'wish'.
There is no wish or any other interpreter exe in tcl or tk subdirectory
of python 2.0 install on windows.

what should I do? do I need to download and install the entire tcl ?

/prasad


. 

-- 


"This e-mail message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally 
privileged information. It should not be used by anyone who is not the 
original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, 
please delete it immediately and notify the sender. The recipient acknowledges 
that ICICI or its subsidiaries and associated companies (including ICICI Bank)
"ICICI Group", are unable to exercise control or ensure or guarantee the 
integrity of/over the contents of the information contained in e-mail 
transmissions and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this 
message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the 
message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with 
due authority of ICICI Group. Before opening any attachments please check them 
for viruses and defects." 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010831/3cbecb88/attachment.html>

From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug 13 23:18:15 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:18:15 -0400
Subject: Problems running a compiled script on Windows.
References: <9d848d5d.0108121554.541bfa06@posting.google.com> <3B771FBA.B73C3F07@engcorp.com> <9d848d5d.0108130707.1b3b8d10@posting.google.com> <9d848d5d.0108131632.1365220f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B789877.9AB21C32@engcorp.com>

Wayne wrote:
> 
> :-( I figured it out; [...]

I'm glad.  I had never heard of Standalone.py (I use only py2exe)
and don't use Qt.  I'm afraid I wasn't much help except
to whine about the vagueness. :-)

Maybe this: on Win32 you _can_ redirect stdout (and under
NT you can do stderr too) to NUL.  Something like

 python silent.py >NUL 2>NUL

... should do the trick.  (There, maybe I *was* of help. :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug 16 11:15:04 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 17:15:04 +0200
Subject: Extension module crashes when Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS is used in Windows event loop.
References: <pJOe7.11274$Tn1.3204167@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <j4pu9wniiv.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Parzival Herzog" <parz at home.com> writes:

> Can anyone shed some light on what the problem here could be?

That is very strange. My guess is that the heap somehow got corrupted,
so that getmessage breaks.

Regards,
Martin



From piercew at hushmail.com  Mon Aug 13 11:07:18 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 08:07:18 -0700
Subject: Problems running a compiled script on Windows.
References: <9d848d5d.0108121554.541bfa06@posting.google.com> <3B771FBA.B73C3F07@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108130707.1b3b8d10@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3B771FBA.B73C3F07 at engcorp.com>...
> Wayne wrote:
> > 
> > I just finished a program/script and compiled it (can't have an
> > interpreter on the dest. machine).  When I run the .py from the
> > command line it works fine, however, when I run the .exe from the
> > command line it doesn't work.  It also doesn't work when I run it from
> > Explorer.
> 
> Always describe *how* something doesn't work.  What are the
> symptoms?  Does the computer crash?  Does nothing appear to 
> happen?  Does everything work *except* some minor part of 
> the logic?  It could be any of these or a zillion other things.
> (Describing what "works fine" means in the case of your
> program might be of some help, too.)

Sorry, I didn't realize how vague that post was when writing it. :-/ 
Thank you for your patience.

> Also, there is no standard Python way to create .exe files 
> on Windows.  Which method did you use?

I figured out what the problem here was. When Standalone.py created
the .exe it excluded the 'posixpath' module automatically. My script
needed that, which is why it worked when running interactively but not
when compiled.

> You imply that even the .py doesn't work from Explorer.  Maybe
> the issue has nothing to do with the .exe, and everything to
> do with a problem related to the reason it won't run in 
> Explorer.  Are you perhaps looking at two different problems?
> (If you run a .py from Explorer, it just opens a console 
> anyway.  Were you running it as a .pyw, or invoking pythonw
> directly, or was this whole assumption wrong?)

I think the other problem with the script running from the command
line and not explorer was relating to the "__name__='__main__':" code.
 When I removed that it works fine; I just call the class at the end
of the script.

> > I'm using Active Python 2.1.1 with Qt on Win2K.  I've tried to find
> > all the instances of stdout and stderr that might require console.
> 
> Neither stdout nor stderr *require* the console.  That is, the program 
> will run fine without a console, other than that any output sent to
> those files will not appear anywhere, which could obviously
> prevent some programs from appearing to work.  Is your program 
> failing in some other way, and you are assuming it is because
> you have prints which can't "go" anywhere?  I'm not sure
> there is enough information in your post to point out an obvious
> place to look for a fix... (of course, that has rarely stopped
> some people in this group from providing useful and correct 
> answers, but it might help a little :-)

Ok, thanks.  I've been trying to figure out how to 'hide' the output
from the BaseHTTPServer...unfortunately there is no /dev/null on NT.

One item that is still confusing me is using Standalone.py with Qt.  I
designed the form in BlackAdder and compiled to an exe.  When the
program is run from a DOS prompt it returns to another prompt, the
same for explorer.

When I run the program with either python or pythonw against the
uncompiled script it works fine and shows the dialog.  The reason this
is a little confusing is that I've written other BA programs and
compiled them with Standalone.py without making any modifications.

When I run the program from the "dist" directory I get the following
error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 98, in _import_hook
    top_module = self._import_top_module(parts[0])
  File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 184, in
_import_top_module
    module = item.import_top(name)
  File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 211, in import_top
    return self._import_one(None, name, name)
  File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 266, in _import_one
    module = self._process_result(result, fqname)
  File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 295, in
_process_result
    exec code in module.__dict__
  File "mgt.py", line 9, in ?
  File "E:\installer_4a2\support\imputil.py", line 101, in
_import_hook
    raise ImportError, 'No module named ' + fqname
ImportError: No module named qt

If I try to for the inclusion of qt by adding an "includes=qt" line to
the .cfg file for Builder I get an error "qt not found".  If I run the
interactive interpreter and "import qt" it will find the module
though.

:-/  I'm sure it's a typo on my part though....thanks again for your
help.

Wyane


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 23:54:03 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:54:03 GMT
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com> <701e7.101056$EP6.25885223@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <cpbslje1s7.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

[Alex]
> > I thought I had understood it, but still don't see where it mentions
> > "x.__class__ = whatever" now being forbidden or restricted?

[Terry]
> I rechecked.  It does not.  Did find "For instance of built-in
> types, x.__class__ is now the same as type(x): " which does hint
> that it might be problematical for subtypes.
> 
> Is the proposed restriction for subtype insstances only or also for
> subclass instances?

If you mean the distinction between "classic classes" and new-style
classes (those derived from 'object' or using an explicit metaclass),
the restriction does not apply to classic classes.  Classic classes
don't change in 2.2 -- they are slated for change much later (around
3.0).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From reallywildbill at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  2 15:36:39 2001
From: reallywildbill at hotmail.com (Wild Bill)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 12:36:39 -0700
Subject: What's the standard way to turn a code object into a function ?
Message-ID: <903e2d53.0108021136.77c07e25@posting.google.com>

How would you fill in the missing lines?

    codeObj = compile(sBody, "", "exec")
    #
    # Turn 'codeObj' into function 'f' 
    ..
    # Later, use 'f'
    x = f(1, "blue", 3.1416)

Ideally, I'm looking for something elegant, i.e., that doesn't
call "exec" when performing f.

Thanks!

Bill


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Thu Aug  9 00:33:48 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 04:33:48 GMT
Subject: Probably a stupid newbie question....i got to ask
References: <9ksatp010b6@enews4.newsguy.com> <mailman.997321603.21588.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ih44ntkpq7sda5jjavrg83uinov80kga8p@4ax.com>

>How do you use string.atoi to convert a variable integer to a string?

You need to learn about the "coerce to string" operation:

>>> i = 3
>>> s = `i`
>>> s
'3'
>>> 

Note the backquotes.

C//



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Aug  7 16:27:16 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:27:16 -0400
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
In-Reply-To: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C4@il93exm04.css.mot.com>; from Randy.L.Kemp@motorola.com on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:20:24PM -0500
References: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C4@il93exm04.css.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20010807162716.A6031@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:20:24PM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote:
> Great!  But how can I apply this to all files in a directory, where
> the directory contains 20 files, without listing each file
> individually?

I don't understand what you mean by "without listing each file
individually".  How can you apply the filter to file content without
knowing its filename?

Since you're already running Unix, the easiest solution is to write a
Python script which takes <stdin> and spits out corrected <stdout>.
Then, use shell to call it.  You can, of course, do all these in Python
using 'os' module.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From benjamin.altman at noaa.gov  Wed Aug  8 14:23:30 2001
From: benjamin.altman at noaa.gov (Ben.Altman)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:23:30 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
	 <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>

Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
>
> Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to (or
> at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a Python
> environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
> second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
> code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody know
> of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables Python
> stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...

What about nedit.



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 31 08:55:33 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:55:33 -0700
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ?
References: <Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>
Message-ID: <9mo1p3$3buv1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

use locale:

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,"")
'English_United States.1252'
>>> print locale.format('%.3f',12345.6789,1)
12,345.679

But watch out for negative numbers:

>>> print locale.format('%.3f',-345.6789,1)
-,345.679

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Fred Pacquier" <fredp at mygale.org.nospam> wrote in message
news:Xns910E8A4B714EBPaCmAnRDLM at 161.48.128.20...
>
> Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I believe I did my homework
> (docs, FATS, Google etc.) and the answer still eludes me :
>
> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
>
> TIA,
> fp
>
> --
> YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/



From gradha at iname.com  Thu Aug 16 09:17:06 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:17:06 +0200
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
References: <mailman.997917625.3557.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i4hgl9.ok1.ln@127.0.0.1>

Dave Cinege <dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote:
> How does one exec a python program with a password on the cmdline?

Doing this is silly, stupid, a security breach, <put here expelletive>, etc.
Don't you see a password on a commandline can be seen by other tools of
the same operative system? On Unix is as easy as running "ps aux". Under
Windows I had once used similar tools to watch processes and their system
information.

If you want security, run your python program, then use the getpass module.

> Time to start looking to patch the python source me thinks...

Time to learn something about real security me thinks...

--
 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at terra.es   http://gradha.infierno.org


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Aug  6 11:53:45 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:53:45 -0400
Subject: OT: interesting times (was Re: PEP? context overloading: if wants(type): 
 ...)
References: <9klgl0$1frt$1@news.idiom.com> <9km9jp110lc@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B6EBD89.A1D2A03E@engcorp.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Jim Dennis" <jimd at vega.starshine.org> wrote in message
> > I'm not qualified to formally champion a PEP, but I'd
> >  like to raise the question here to see if it's of interest.
> >
> >  One feature that I find interesting about PERL is it's
> >  "context sensitivity."
> 
> I can accept this, in the context of the (mythical, I
> think) Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times".

http://hawk.fab2.albany.edu/sidebar/sidebar.htm

... definitely sounds mythical. :)


From michael at rcp.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 09:27:54 2001
From: michael at rcp.co.uk (Michael Abbott)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:27:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <1709172.gFLt9SDvcz@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <Xns90FD93614D7DCmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

Markus Schaber <markus at schabi.de> wrote in 
news:1709172.gFLt9SDvcz at lunix.schabi.de:

> Hi,
> 
> Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk> schrub:
>  
>> Oops!  Very true.  I should have rewritten it as
> 
>>      e = 'wow'
>>      b,c,d = 'wow' a = 'wow'
> 
> This still isn't exactly true.
> 
> Imagine, that the expression on the right side has side effects, than 
> you should only evaluate it one time. 
> 
> And with the get/set operators that seem to emerge, access to instance 
> variables also can have side effects, that means the order in which you 
> assign is incorrect, as - at least according to chapter 6.3 of th 1.5.2 
> reference manual - the assignment order is strictly left to right.

Oh dearie me.  Well, I think this does support my case about obfuscation, 
but I agree that your writing out is much more long winded.

> 
> In those cases, one would have to write
> 
>   tmp = "wow"
>   a = tmp
>   b,c,d = tmp
>   e = tmp
>   del tmp
> 
> to acheive the same behaviour as in
>   a = b,c,d = e = "wow"
> 
> (as long as I didn't miss anything)

LOL.  I expect we're there now: except of course, you have to add the 
proviso that tmp is a new name not already in use

> 
>> Hmm.  The argument about obfuscation versus repetition comes more
>> clearly into focus.  I still think multiple assignment is a bad
>> thing... 
> 
> Then just don't use it :-)
> 
> I think it sometimes is a good thing to have, but you have to know 
> about the exact semantics.

Bah!  I confess defeat (mostly).

Well, I didn't know the detailed semantics, so it's been quite useful to 
learn how this actually works...



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 19:14:40 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:14:40 -0700
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <cp4rrz5onj.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <memo.20010803215850.16469f@digitig.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B6B3060.2FAF43DC@ActiveState.com>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> 
>...
> <snip>
> 
> Just a quick reminder that the reason I can't get any sysadmin to let me
> use Python is that all the ones I encounter consider Python too unstable
> for serious work. I see their point :-(

Python is absolutely stable compared to the sysadmin language of choice,
Perl.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:39:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:39:49 +0200
Subject: Variables from variables
References: <2gppnt4vfvt570kivgsgc99e5fca7ckm3b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9ljhd1025ff@enews2.newsguy.com>

<paul at nlhas.no> wrote in message
news:2gppnt4vfvt570kivgsgc99e5fca7ckm3b at 4ax.com...
> I've come to a dead end with this one, and would be grateful for
> suggestions. Scenario - a tuple with field names (self.description) to
> be mapped to class variables and assigned values from self.record.
    ...
> y = 0
> r=self.record[0]
> for x in self.description :
> k = x[0]

This means k is the first character of string x -- I don't
understand why you want that?

> c = r[y]
> y += 1
> v = 'self.' + k
> exceptiontype = ''
> try :
>    cde = compile( "%s = %s" % (v , c) , '<string>' , 'exec')
>            exec cde
>            print 'OK ' +  v + ' ' + `type(v)`
> except StandardError , exceptiontype:
>    print `exceptiontype` + v + ' ' + `type(v)`

I'm not following in detail, but you seem to mean something
like:
    setattr(self, k, c)


Alex





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Aug 28 08:39:11 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 15:39:11 +0300
Subject: Semaphores?
References: <mailman.998468731.4893.python-list@python.org> <7xwv3og71o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <kuvgj89x5c.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <7xwv3og71o.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin
<phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> writes:

| Anyone got a favorite way to implement shared memory semaphores in
| Python?  The obvious way is with an atomic test-and-set operation in
| the mmap module, but none seems to be listed in the docs.  Is there a
| preferred way to do it?  If not, should I submit a PEP to add
| something to mmap?

<URL: http://mambo.peabody.jhu.edu/omr/omi/source/shm_source/shm.html>?

  -- erno


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 07:50:19 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:50:19 +0200
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <mailman.998582617.17836.python-list@python.org> <8a12e538.0108231711.49d74a5a@posting.google.com> <ttlh7.130642$EP6.36178683@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <8a12e538.0108241333.673d4a8b@posting.google.com> <cp3d6ap71x.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <8a12e538.0108301457.706645ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mntls02l31@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Russell Turpin" <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a12e538.0108301457.706645ef at posting.google.com...
    ...
> future data model correctly, it seems to me that "Object"
> should be made a built-in type that follows all the same
> rules as the other built-in types, distinguished primarily
> as being the default base type when no other is listed. In
> particular, I should be able to create instances without
> first sub-classing:
>
>     spam = Object()       # Create new instance

The time machine strikes again -- all this works fine
already in Python 2.2 alpha 2, except that 'object' is
spelled in lower-case:

C:\Python22>python
Python 2.2a2 (#22, Aug 22 2001, 01:24:03) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> spam = object()

>     spam.eggs = "Yes"

But *this* doesn't work, of course...:

>>> spam.eggs = "Yes"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'eggs'


Like those of many other built-in objects, instances of
object have no __dict__ to store arbitrary attributes in:
so, you're limited to using the predefined-slots (of which
I believe object happens to have none:-).  And you're also
underestimating the "ancestorshipness" of object...:

>>> isinstance([],object)
1
>>> isinstance("peep",object)
1
>>> isinstance(isinstance,object)
1
>>> isinstance(None,object)
1

See...?  Adam and Eve had nothing on this object guy...:-).


Alex





From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 18:00:56 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:00:56 +0200
Subject: Help using telnetlib to install/remove rpms
References: <93c49bf6.0108021102.402154db@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7852138.s5MMGUR32x@lunix.schabi.de>

Hello,

Rebecca Hepper <Rebecca.R.Hepper at seagate.com> schrub:

> max_wait = 30
> 
> tn=Telnet(ipAddress)
> tn.read_until("login: ", max_wait)
> tn.write("username\n")
> tn.read_until("Password: ", max_wait)
> tn.write("password\n")
> 
> # change to superuser, can't install rpm as normal user
> tn.write("su\n")
> tn.read_until("Password: ", max_wait)
> tn.write("password\n")
> 
> tn.write("rpm -e myrpm-7.00-1\n")
> tn.write("rpm -i myrpm-7.01-1.i386.rpm\n")
> tn.write("exit\n")

For debugging reasons, it would be nice to see the responses from the 
telnet server - may be you should use TCPDump or ethereal and capture 
the packets on the net, so we can see what really happens on the net.
 
Does the su work? Did you try some commands like "echo" or so to test 
whether the shell accepts other commands?

markus

-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From piercew at hushmail.com  Fri Aug 10 08:15:55 2001
From: piercew at hushmail.com (Wayne)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 05:15:55 -0700
Subject: How do i use ssh in pyhton.
References: <9ktfa3$nuf$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <9d848d5d.0108100415.1e3e58b2@posting.google.com>

"trong anh tran" <trong-anh.tran at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<9ktfa3$nuf$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr>...
> Hi,

Hello. :-)

> Thank a lot for yours anwers.
> I want to make a conncetion ssh to a server but i don't know how to do.

Do you just want to run a command on the destination server or create
your own SSH client?  When I just want to run a command on the server
I take the easy way out and use a separate client and have my Python
script pass in the parameters.

On Linux I use the commandline ssh client and on Windows I use
Plink[1].  If I need to transfer files I'll use Plink to remotely
compress or prepare the files (c: I'm usually writing a program to ssh
from a Windows machine to a Linux server).  Then I use PSCP, from the
same site, to transfer the files to the local machine or upload the
files.

> I make first a socket connection (port 22) and then encrypt the data? (I'm a
> beginner in Python)

If you want to write your own SSH interface you may want to consider
reading OpenSSH Key Management[2] for information on RSA
Authentication.

Wayne
--
[1] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html
[2] http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-keyc?t=gr,p=RSA-DSA


From rupe at metro.yak.net  Tue Aug 14 15:46:59 2001
From: rupe at metro.yak.net (Rupert Scammell)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:46:59 -0700
Subject: Typo in Python Tutorial?
Message-ID: <79179cf5.0108141146.1ce6e2ee@posting.google.com>

In the Python Tutorial
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html), Section 5.1, I
noticed that the pop() method for lists is documented as:

pop([i])
Remove the item at the given position in the list, and return it. If
no index is specified, a.pop() returns the last item in the list. The
item is also removed from the list.

I tried the following:

1.5.2 -
>>> mylist = ['one','two','three']
>>> list_item = mylist.pop([0])
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation

2.0 -
>>> mylist = ['one','two','three']
>>> list_item = mylist.pop([0])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: an integer is required

However, in both versions, doing listitem = mylist.pop(0) works the
way I expect, making list_item == 'one', and mylist ==
['two','three'].

Section 5.1.2 in the Tutorial (Using Lists as Queues), however, uses
the mylist.pop(i) notation, which appears to be the correct way of
doing things.  Is something funny going on here, or is this a typo in
the documentation?

David Beazley's "Python Essential Reference", p. 22 mentions the
mylist.pop([i]) notation also.

--- Rupert

Rupert Scammell
rupe at metro.yak.net
http://metro.yak.net:8080


From fett at tradersdata.com  Wed Aug  8 17:07:39 2001
From: fett at tradersdata.com (fett at tradersdata.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:07:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: newbie string.replace question
Message-ID: <200108082107.f78L7dl17957@vela.tradersdata.com>

Could someone please tell me why the following segment of code wont
work:

unformat = quote[11]
string.replace(unformat, '<B>', '')   
string.replace(unformat, '</DL>', '')  
string.replace(unformat, '</B>', '')
string.replace(unformat, '<DL COMPACT>', '')
string.replace(unformat, '<DT>', '')
string.replace(unformat, '<DD>', '')
string.replace(unformat, '<OL>', '')
string.replace(unformat, '</OL>', '')

when i print the html stuff i was replacing is still there.

				Thanks in advance,
				Dan












-- 
Daniel Hammond              	Get your free e-mail account today @
Raleigh NC                     	http://sabacctable.zzn.com
The United States of America
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From fred at arakane.com  Sat Aug 18 12:21:12 2001
From: fred at arakane.com (Frederic Giacometti)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:21:12 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <YBwf7.55343$MC1.18386642@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>

Gerhard,

Could you add 'protocol' to the reserved keyword list?

Thanks,

Frederic Giacometti

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:8mvbl9.on2.ln at gargamel.hqd-internal...
> Something similar was proposed a few months ago. I've put it now into
PEP-form.
> This is only a rough draft. What do you think of it?
>
> If a few more people than just me think that this is a good idea I'll try
to
> submit this as a PEP.
>
> Gerhard
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> PEP: <pep-no.>
> Title: Reserving Keywords For Possible Future Use
> Version: Python 2.2
> Author: gerhard at bigfoot.de (Gerhard Haering)
> Status: Draft of Draft
> Type: Standards track
> Created: 14-Aug-2001
> Post-History: <none>
>
> Abstract
>     To avoid long transition periods when a new Python feature requires a
new
>     keyword, this PEP proposes to reserve a set of keywords "in advance".
>
> Specification
>     These are the list of keywords reserved for possible future use:
>
>     abstract, directive, foreign, interface, static, yield
>
>     In Python 2.2, a warning will be emitted as soon as any of the above
is
>     used as an identifier, for example:
>
>     Warning: 'yield' will become a reserved keyword in the future
>
>     In Python 2.3, all of the above become reserved keywords, and using
them as
>     identifiers will generate a Syntax error.
>
> Rationale
>     If a new Python feature requires the introduction of a new keywords in
the
>     future and the keyword was in the set of keywords reserved for
possible
>     future use, the new feature can be made available immediately. There
will
>     be no need to make a "from __future import" statement during for one
Python
>     version iteration, like with the introduction of simple generators in
>     Python 2.2.
>
> Open Issues
>     Which keywords to reserve.
>
> Copyright
>
>     This document has been placed in the public domain.
>
>
>
> Local Variables:
> mode: indented-text
> indent-tabs-mode: nil
> End:
>
> --
> mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
> web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
> public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
> reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda
x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))




From paul at boddie.net  Thu Aug  9 11:58:32 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 08:58:32 -0700
Subject: Python2.2 doesn't give members of a list
References: <mailman.997328534.2490.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108090758.43454748@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997328534.2490.python-list at python.org>...
>
> The new scheme is better because more consistent and predictable, but the
> change in dir(builtin_object) is starting to look like it *may* be a bad
> incompatibility with 2.1.  Much as I hate doing it, for this reason I'm
> going to look into hacking inconsistent surprises back into dir().
> 
> although-nothing-can-make-everyone-happy-ly y'rs  - tim

Absolutely not! I was initially surprised that dir(object) didn't give
the methods as well as the attributes, and disappointed that
dir(object.__class__) doesn't state the methods available on that
object. For example:

  class A:
    def a(self):
      pass

  class B(A):
    pass

b = B()
dir(b.__class__) # doesn't mention method "a" at all

Obviously, there are good reasons for this. Technically, method "a"
isn't a method belonging to class "B" at all, but then one might
expect dir(b) to involve this kind of inferencing. If dir had to
report the methods available on an object, though, it would need to
visit all the base classes and work out what is visible. Instead, that
is left up to the programmer, unless he/she decides upon using the new
introspection module(s).

Perhaps there should be a well-known and widely published way of doing
this kind of thing, but dir is a well-known function. It's a shame
about dir([])...

Paul


From joost_jacob at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 19 11:37:04 2001
From: joost_jacob at hotmail.com (J.Jacob)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 08:37:04 -0700
Subject: exception attributes
Message-ID: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com>

Hello,

When testing exceptions i found something, maybe a bug ?
I wonder if the behavior is intentionally.
Hereby a small program to show it:

---code starts after this line---------------------------------------------
"""

See code below:
sys.exc_value.name receives the class attribute called 'name' unless there
also is an instance attribute called 'name'...
...the class attribute is now invisible...  


"""


class MyError:
    def __init__(self):
        self.name = 'MyError instance attribute name'
        MyError.name = 'MyError class attribute name'


class MyError2:
    def __init__(self):
        MyError2.name = 'MyError2 class attribute name'


def oops():
    raise MyError


def oops2():
    raise MyError2


import sys

def oopsCaller():
    try:
        oops()
    except MyError:
        print 'name attribute value:', sys.exc_value.name
    else:
        print 'no catch in oopsCaller()'

def oopsCaller2():
    try:
        oops2()
    except MyError2:
        print 'name attribute value:', sys.exc_value.name
    else:
        print 'niks gevangen in oopCaller2()'

    

if __name__ == '__main__':
    oopsCaller()
    oopsCaller2()


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:08:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:08:56 +0200
Subject: Is this the *right* way of exception handling?
References: <9kdr21$rao$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <slrn9mmffh.7h4.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <3B6B3F57.65BA307B@alcyone.com> <slrn9mn482.9od.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <9kg708029i1@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn9mn482.9od.quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu...
    ...
> Python provides two ways to do the same thing:
>
> if not foo: raise bar
>
> and
>
> assert foo
>
> The difference is that asserts can be turned off.  I use asserts to
describe

Actually, as you mention later, three ways, since you can write:

if __debug__:
    if not foo: raise bar

and now you have the exact semantic equivalent of an assert, in
terms of being able to turn it off (it's turned off in the same way:
a -O or -OO switch to Python).  Note that 'if __debug__ and not foo'
doesn't work the same way (not currently, at least).


> Python style is often to just toss the data in, and see if it's good by
> whether it blows up or not (the "better to ask forgiveness" philosophy),
but
> it can be handy to catch things before that point, especially when the
> consistency of a filesystem or database is at stake.  And sometimes those
> checks can be very expensive, so it's handy to be able to turn them off
when
> everything's been tested.

I agree, see:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52291


> On the other hand, if it's a "bug" error, you usually shouldn't be
catching
> it, so it shouldn't be an ordinary exception type.  I dunno.  In any case,
I'm

In a long-running program that dynamically loads code, you may
have to keep running (and not corrupt state) even if a buggy
piece of code has been loaded.  Ditto for an application that allows
add-ons -- it may be unacceptable to let a buggy add-on crash
the main app (or lead to corrupted state, which can be even worse).


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 22 02:31:49 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:31:49 -0400
Subject: looping through the keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <8e84aae6.0108210651.6fdac34d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEDILHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tist Verdonck]
> Is there a way to loop through the keys of a dictionary (whitout using
> a list containing all those keys)?

Not before the not-yet-released 2.2, but why do you care?  Most people
worried about speed or space in this context haven't measured either and are
simply irrational <0.7 wink>.

Under 2.2 you'll be able to do:

    for k in dict:  # a synonym for the next one
    for k in dict.iterkeys():
    for k in dict.iteritems():
    for k in dict.itervalues():

None of those create a list.  OTOH, if you try to *mutate* the dict while
iterating over it in these ways, you deserve whatever you get.  This is the
best you can hope for:

>>> d = {1:2, 2:3}
>>> for k in d:
...    d[k+2] = 3
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration
>>>

The great advantage to materializing a list is that it captures a snapshot
of the keys, and mutating the set of dict keys later doesn't mutate the
snapshot.




From  at home.com  Tue Aug 21 22:29:55 2001
From:  at home.com ( at home.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:29:55 GMT
Subject: Pythonwin does not run on my machine
References: <mailman.998443952.32658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B827069.F4A7667@home.com>

Kim,

    When I installed pythonwin, it installed a shortcut under the Start
menu that launches "C:\Python21\Pythonwin\Pythonwin.exe" rather than just
invoking pythinw.exe.

Jonathan Polley

Kim C Tran wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I had installed python21 and I have no problem running the Python.exe
> but PythonW.exe(Pythonwin) does not run at all.
> Am I missing out something ?? My computer is window NT
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kim,



From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug  1 19:17:52 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:17:52 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:32:52 GMT, ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:45:14 +1200, Greg Ewing
><greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>>"David C. Ullrich" wrote:
>>> 
>>> But why should the real and imag of a complex be required to be
>>> floats in the first place? Why  shouldn't they be allowed to be
>>> floats or rationals or integers?
>>
>>A complex number, in the mathematical sense, is 
>>not a pair of other numbers -- that's just one 
>>way of *representing* a complex number.
>
>Well thanks for clarifying _that_. Duh.
>
>(Not that it makes any difference here, but
>since you undertstand the math so much better
>than I do: Exactly what definition of
>"complex number" do you have in mind here?
>The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
>real numbers".)
>
Well, he *is* trying to pay attention to representation issues,
which I think is good ;-) but it sounded like the horse wasn't
quite hitched right, the way I read it.
[...]

It looks to me like the problem is that the Python internal representation
in C of complex actually *is* two doubles, not two python numbers.

Probably because for using external libraries it makes it a lot faster if you
don't first have to convert Python's numeric objects and make a pair
of doubles -- especially since you probably always get doubles back.

I don't think there is there's any reason you *couldn't*
use general numbers (excluding complex ;-) as the real and imag parts.
I'm guessing it would just be a lot of mostly boring rework programming
and there's hotter things now for the internals people (of which I'm not one,
in case the thought occurred. Not that I wouldn't like to be at some point ;-).
The trick would be to preserve speed and still get generality. I think it
could be done, but is that where you want to allocate the people who both
can and are in a position to do that?

Anyway, the abstract aspects of things are more interesting.
At least until I'm hungry ;-)

from complexobject.h:

typedef struct {
    double real;
    double imag;
} Py_complex;
...
/*
PyComplexObject represents a complex number with double-precision
real and imaginary parts.
*/

typedef struct {
    PyObject_HEAD
    Py_complex cval;
} PyComplexObject;     




From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Sun Aug  5 14:50:53 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:50:53 +0100
Subject: NEWBIE TIP: Displaying the contents of an imported module...from ENGSOL
References: <3b6c4e0b.12598605@news.onemain.com>
Message-ID: <6b5rmtcqrivk396g2cjun20s7j69786t56@4ax.com>

On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 19:37:26 GMT, engsol at teleport.com wrote:

>"""
>I'm brand new to Python, and while reading the books,
>I tend to bread-board stuff just to see how it works.
>I figure it's better to share....
>If it's of use to other newbies, great.
>If it's in error, please post a correction.
>"""
>
>#----FILE: show_mod.py
>
>""" Sometimes you'd like to see some details
>of a module you've imported. Here's one way
>to do so.
>"""

<snip>

Here's a hack to show the __doc__ for everything in a module:

import os

for x in dir(os):
    try:
        print "%s\n%s\n%s\n" % (x, '-'*35, os.__dict__[x].__doc__)
    except AttributeError:
        print "*** no __doc__ for os.%s\n" % (x)

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From paul at boddie.net  Tue Aug 14 06:15:16 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 03:15:16 -0700
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <q2sfnt4052lvehf38fcanevgnllb1r3s5r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108140215.394af00f@posting.google.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<q2sfnt4052lvehf38fcanevgnllb1r3s5r at 4ax.com>...
> In addition to the comments by Hans Nowak, let me point out that Tkinter
> runs on every platform that Python runs on, whereas wxPython does not.

I suspect that this statement is absolutely not true, unless Tkinter
makes use of toolkits other than Tk, which I doubt. Of course, Tkinter
works on Windows, Mac and many UNIX-like systems, and it's not that
likely that any given inquirer is asking for advice on user interface
toolkits for platforms other than those. Moreover, it's more Python's
fault for being so portable that the above statement is rendered
untrue. However, "all" versus "the big three, four, or five" is still
a distinction worth making, in my opinion.

wxPython looks very nice and I have seen it running on Solaris and
Linux, but then Tkinter has that lovely canvas widget...

Paul


From fractal97 at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 10 23:31:32 2001
From: fractal97 at hotmail.com (vin)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:31:32 GMT
Subject: server question
Message-ID: <oG1d7.8274$vp.1265600@news02.optonline.net>

I am trying to evaluate a string with a simple server and send the result 
back but I can't get it to work.

import socket

def start_server(PORT):
    HOST = ' '                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    s.bind((HOST, PORT))
    s.listen(1)
    conn, addr = s.accept()
    print 'Connected by', addr
    while 1:
        data = conn.recv(1024)
        if not data : break
        conn.send(eval(data))
    conn.close()

When I send "5*6" the server chrashes.  ....

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "server.py", line 13, in start_server
    print 'Evaluated', eval(data)
  File "<string>", line 1
    5*6
       ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax 

How can I get it to work?

Thanks


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 18:17:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:17:41 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk><PM00038A9EE4211FBF@gormenghast.unknown.dom><3B6AA8A1.4000907@herts.ac.uk> <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <9l4ave024oq@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Stefan Schwarzer" <s.schwarzer at ndh.net> wrote in message
news:3B75B3C0.965E6E2E at ndh.net...
    ...
> > I'm not sure what you mean, since 'lvalue' is not a Python
> > concept, but...:
> >
> >     a=b,c,d=e='wow'
>
> Nice, but seems like "obfuscated Python" to me ;-)
>
> >>> a,b,c,d,e
> ('wow', 'w', 'o', 'w', 'wow')
>
> I haven't yet figured out how it works. Could you please add parantheses
to
> the above expression or clarify otherwise how it works?

I guess I could parenthesize
    a = (b,c,d) = e = 'wow'
but I don't know if that would help.  Neither statement seems
all that obfuscated to me...:-).

The point is that (simple) assignment in Python has the syntax:
    <LHS>{1 or more times} <RHS>
The right-hand side, RHS, is one or more expressions (if more
than one, comma is the separator, and a tuple is implicitly
packed).  Each LHS is:
    <target> =
where target is one or more references (if more than one,
comma is the separator, and a tuple is implicitly unpacked).
(Actually, there are more complicated possibilities, but THOSE
would feel rather obfuscated to me:-).  A 'reference' here may
be a variable, or it may be an indexing, slicing, attribute access.

Back to the example I was giving (to ask for clarification of
the assertion that a Python statement has "just one lvalue"):
we have an assignment with three targets.  Two, a and e,
are just variables.  One, b,c,d [which could be parenthesized
as (b,c,d)] is made up of three references (variables) and
thus implies the unpacking of a sequence of three items.
And sure enough, on the RHS we do have a sequence of
three items (a string of three characters), so each item is
bound to one of the variables, in the same order.


Alex





From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Wed Aug 15 14:47:21 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:47:21 +0200
Subject: problem calling functions with default arguments
References: <9lee98$34p0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3B7AC3B9.D6FB66@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Russell E. Owen wrote:
> def atest(alist = []):
>   print "alist =", alist
>   alist.append("test")
>
> atest()
> atest()
> atest()
> 
> I was expecting that alist would be empty every time it is printed.
> However, when I run the code I see:
> 
> alist = []
> alist = ['test']
> alist = ['test', 'test']

It has to do with the fact that we have just one list object here: The
one created when atest() was first executed. It seems that Python
doesn't create a new list every time, so it keeps growing with each
append.

You can though, move the default value into the function body. For
example:

def atest(alist = None):
    if alist is None:
        alist = []
    print 'alist =', alist
    alist.append('test')

Now it should work. Thanks to my O'Reilly book for pointing that one out
on me before I had to come face to face with it. :-)

Kudos, Dietmar


From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Wed Aug  8 07:05:05 2001
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:05:05 +0100
Subject: How to call java from python?
References: <wM6c7.6221$qb.1465@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3B711CD6.D034C5EB@accessforall.nl>


Larry Han wrote:
> 
> Is there any way to use java method from python?
> Like calling C from python, it seems reasonable to
> drag java and python closer.

Absolutely: www.jython.org
In jython you can do eg.:

  import java

  jht = java.util.Hashtable()

  jht.put(1,'Hello world')

  print jht.get(1)


At the moment you can't call both C and java, but it seems
there is work going on on jpe, a java python extension.

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 01:00:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:00:35 -0400
Subject: Single Instance of app
In-Reply-To: <slrn9olo3c.7hk.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEKKLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim Peters]
> I'm not sure exactly what's meant by "atomic lock on a file",
> but you can study the std tempfile.py module for the excruciating dance
> needed to create temp files safely.

[Tim Hammerquist]
> Thanks!

Hey, what else are Tims good for <wink>?

> I just meant 'atomic' as far as avoiding the race condition.

Cool.  You have primarily the O_EXCL flag to os.open() to thank for that.

> The tempfile module uses the ((fd)?open|close) functions in the os
> module. I would assume these are closer to the system calls like
> fopen() and fdopen() than is the built-in open()?

           Python   C
-----------------   -------
 __builtin__.open   fopen
__builtin__.close   fclose
          os.open   open
         os.close   close
        os.fdopen   fdopen

The problem is that O_EXCL isn't available to (C) fopen, so the low-level
open has to be used.  Then the file is unlinked, both so that it will go
away when the descriptor is closed, and so that nobody can find it *by* name
via directory searches.  Then we're left with a raw file handle, but Python
file objects wrap streams; fdopen is used just to wrap a stream around the
handle.




From just at letterror.com  Wed Aug  8 11:55:21 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:55:21 +0200
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9krm84$8ra$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3B7160E9.2450CBE7@letterror.com>

Aahz Maruch wrote:
> 
> In article <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
> Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
> >
> >When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like
> >
> >  for(i=3D0; i<lastI; i++) {
> >    justDoIt(i);
> >    if( someTest(i) ) break;
> >  }
> >  /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
> >  for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
> >    doSomethingElse(i);
> >  }       =
> 
> Here's how I'd do it:
> 
> flag = None
> for item in l:
>     if flag is None:
>         justDoIt(item)
>         if someTest(item):
>             flag = 1
>     else:
>         doSomethingElse(item)
> 
> I suppose that technically it's slightly more inefficient because you're
> testing flag on every loop iteration, but it's almost certainly the case
> that it'll be swamped by the time for justDoIt() and doSomethingElse().
> And I think that the algorithm is *much* clearer by using only one loop.

FWIW, in Python 2.2 you could write:

it = iter(l)
for item in it:
    justDoIt(item)
    if someTest(item):
        break
for item in it:
    doSomethingElse(item)


Just


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 18 15:43:29 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 12:43:29 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) writes:
> > I think I'm reacting not as much to language differences as to
> > differences in system maturity.  Whenever I write something in Perl or
> > CL, and I need to do something like turn an array into a string,
> 
> Do you mean a Python list? ''.join(mylist)

No I mean a list of character values, like (97,98,99) => "abc".

> > somebody seems to have faced that problem before and it's been taken
> > care of in some reasonably thought-out way.  In Python, I often feel
> > like I'm doing something that hasn't been done much before.
> 
> In part I suspect that's due to your inexperience with the language, but
> please keep pointing out the things that are missing. :)

Here's one: say I have a long int, like x = 7**77777L.  How can I tell
how many bits it takes to express that number in binary?  How can I
convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can
think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.

Thanks.


From grante at visi.com  Thu Aug 16 14:42:09 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:42:09 GMT
Subject: Sketch build/install problem
Message-ID: <slrn9no539.3lu.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

I joined the sketch mailing list yesterday and sent this -- but
haven't seen anything from the mailing list other than the
request for a subcribe confirmation.  

Since the sketch mailing seems to be incommunicado, I thought
maybe somebody here might have an idea...

---------------------------------------------------------------

I just upgraded sketch to 1.6.12 (1.6.8 had been working but I
broke it when I upgraded Python to 2.1).

The configure/build/install worked without a problem, but when
try to run sketch I get an undefined symblol error:

   $ sketch
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "/usr/local/bin/sketch", line 34, in ?
       Sketch.main.main()
     File "/usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.12/Sketch/Base/main.py", line 142, in main
       Sketch.init_ui()
     File "/usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.12/Sketch/__init__.py", line 172, in init_ui
       import paxtkinter
   ImportError: /usr/local/bin/../lib/sketch-0.6.12/Sketch/../Lib/paxtkinter.so: undefined symbol: XDestroyWindow

If I go look at that file...

   $ pwd
   /usr/local/lib/sketch-0.6.12/Lib
   
   $ nm -A paxtkinter.so | grep " XDest"
   paxtkinter.so:         U XDestroyIC
   paxtkinter.so:         U XDestroyRegion
   paxtkinter.so:         U XDestroyWindow
   
   $ ldd paxtkinter.so 
           libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40147000)
           /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)

XDestroyWindow is defined in /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so:

$ nm -a /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so | grep " XDest"
00049320 T XDestroyIC
00024450 T XDestroyImage
000498c0 T XDestroyOC
0002b620 T XDestroyRegion
00018fa0 T XDestroySubwindows
00019030 T XDestroyWindow

But, paxtkinter.so doesn't pull in libX11.so.  

Any ideas what I did wrong?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My Aunt MAUREEN was
                                  at               a military advisor to IKE &
                               visi.com            TINA TURNER!!


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug  1 20:13:30 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 20:13:30 -0400
Subject: How to use python to automate installation of non-python programs?
References: <6b954971.0108011515.355c33a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ur8uvb9p1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

bevans at wested.org (Bela Evans) writes:

> What I'm thinking would be needed is a kind of keyboard and mouse
> entry macro recorder.  For example, on 1st screen of install program,
> press enter, 2nd screen, click on customize button, etc.  The python
> script would need to focus attention on the install program window and
> send keystrokes and mouse clicks to it.  Anyone have experience with
> this?  Any pointers to which modules I should look at?  Or is there a
> better way to run through install programs?

You should be able to automate your way with FindWindow/SendMessage
and a few other Win32 API functions that are wrapped by the win32all
package, but to be honest, it's probably easier to just use an
existing macro utility.

There are some commercial ones, but there is also Scriptit (Microsoft,
not sure of URL) and AutoIt (http://www.hiddensoft.com/AutoIt), the
latter of which we use.  It's a separate executable, but we have
Python scripts that dynamically write the AutoIt scripts and then run
AutoIt on them via popen().  Works just fine for those cases where
there's no other convenient API.

Any GUI automation is a little risky in case something goes wrong or
the GUI becomes ambiguous, so you have to look at specific cases that
you need to automate.  And some things are annoyingly un-automatable,
such as when you find VB apps that have no window text that you can
search for or key off of.

I had communicated with the AutoIt author a while back offering to
write a Python wrapper if he'd expose source but he declined.  He was
in theory going to provide a DLL (which could be wrapped without
source) with his new C++ rewrite version but I haven't seen that
released yet.  AutoIt does have an ActiveX control, so if you don't
mind ensuring it's registered, you should be able to automate it
through win32com.

But even as a standalone it works just fine for what we needed.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 16:14:33 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:14:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lists into Strings..?
In-Reply-To: <910D39579tefolThisIsNotAnAddr@61.9.128.12>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291612180.25689-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, tefol wrote:

> Hiya!
>
> I am wondering of the best* way to make string equal to an entire list of
> strings.
>
> >>> lExistingList = ['spam','Spam','SPAM','bacon','Bacon']
> >>> sNewString = lExistingList
>
> just doesn't seem to do it.
>
> I know that I can write the list out to a file, and then read the whole
> file in,   but that seems like so much overkill to me.
>
> Thanks heaps!
>
> tefol
>
> *I let you define best anyway you like.  That seems to be the Python way.
> :-)
>
> Cha!

In any version of Python:

---
import string
sNewString=string.join(lExistingList, '')
---

In Python 2.x:

---
sNewString=''.join(lExistingList)
---

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From guido at python.org  Sun Aug 12 15:22:54 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:22:54 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cp8zgpf5ji.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

[Guido van Rossum]
> > As I just wrote, there will be two kinds of classes: immutable
> > (static) classes and dynamic classes.  The latter can be modified just
> > like classic ones.  But since this makes them less efficient, you have
> > to be explicit about this (when using the new class mechanism, which
> > is not the default in 2.2).

[Alex Martelli]
> May I humbly suggest that this seems to be the same kind of design
> error another great language designer, B. Stroustrup, made when he
> decided that virtual methods (since they are less efficient) must be
> explicitly specified as such, i.e. that the default for a C++ method
> would be "non-overridable" (non-virtual).  [...]

In this case, see my response to Glyph in this thread.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug 12 02:28:08 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:28:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108120123120.15388-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:

> > I think the ZODB uses something like this, but it's implemented using
> > ExtensionClasses.  I'd hate to see it become a requirement to muck around
> > in native code.

[...]

> So if you're relying on something that Zope needs to do, rest assured,
> we'll find a way to do it under the new system too!

Yes.  My one hope for keeping all of Twisted's features in tact through
all these changes is the fact that it has a few things in common with
Zope... I plan to milk that for all it's worth ;-)

> As I just wrote, there will be two kinds of classes: immutable
> (static) classes and dynamic classes.  The latter can be modified just
> like classic ones.  But since this makes them less efficient, you have
> to be explicit about this (when using the new class mechanism, which
> is not the default in 2.2).

As I mentioned in my other email, I think that less efficient should be
the default.  _Usually_ you need dynamism, although it would certainly be
a good thing to have a more efficient way in some cases!

> What do you mean by "real reference replacement"?

I think I meant "wishful thinking about python being more like smalltalk" :-)

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     [[[[  http://twistedmatrix.com  ]]]]






From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Wed Aug 29 07:47:54 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:47:54 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999079423.29561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <KD4j7.29$z_5.566@castor.casema.net>

> P.S. Nice e-mail address ;)
>

Nooooooooooooooooo. My adress sucked. I only used it to clone a dorko on a
pokemon newsgroup (he was annoying).
> --
> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 15:08:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:08:43 +0200
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com> <3b7de709.3497459@wa.news.verio.net> <9ll4ho01jim@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lp2sv0upg@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Bernd Nawothnig" <Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:slrn9o00r9.3vvk8mr.Bernd.Nawothnig at Asterix.t-online.de...
    ...
> >>>    y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
    ...
> >  First wower is called, then y.a is assigned, then b,c,d, then x.e, in
this
> >  order.  But of course it wouldn't be wise to rely on this!-)
>
> Hmm, without having true symbol-expressions (lvals speaken in C-ish) it
> makes no difference which of the different symbols is bound physically
first
> to a value because there can't be any side effect.

Wrong: binding an _object's attribute_ (or item) can perfectly
well have side effects.

class Tracer:
    def __init__(self,name):
        self.__dict__['name'] = name
    def __setattr__(self,name,value):
        print "bound %s.%s to %s"%(
            self.name, name, value)
        self.__dict__[name] = value

y = Tracer('y')
x = Tracer('x')

def wower():
    print "wower called"
    return 'wow'

y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()


D:\MinGw32>python zz.py
wower called
bound y.a to wow
bound x.e to wow


As you can see, it DOES make a perfectly perceptible
difference "which of the different [attributes] is bound
first to a value", even "without having true symbol-
expressions".


Alex





From dgrisby at uk.research.att.com  Mon Aug 20 09:54:22 2001
From: dgrisby at uk.research.att.com (Duncan Grisby)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:54:22 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1.1 on old Debian box with Linux kernel 2.0.39
References: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <9lr4qe$d94$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>

In article <3B8106F2.B946B1B5 at stroeder.com>,
 Michael Str?der  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:

>I have troubles installing Python 2.1.1 on an old Debian box with
>Linux kernel 2.0.39. The kernel sources are available. Building the
>socket module fails with error message:
>
>/tmp/W3311/Python-2.1.1/Modules/socketmodule.c:178:
>netpacket/packet.h: No such file or directory

I had the same problem on an ancient RedHat 5 machine, where the
problem was due to glibc 2.0 missing out some things that are in glibc
2.1. The problems are all fixed in the CVS version of Python. (Unless
they've broken again since my patch was added.)

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby  \  Research Engineer  --
  -- AT&T Laboratories Cambridge          --
   -- http://www.uk.research.att.com/~dpg1 --


From not.this at seebelow.org  Mon Aug 13 14:09:20 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 11:09:20 -0700
Subject: abstract features
References: <mailman.997716920.22470.python-list@python.org> <r63gntgusivel7n51rdh2nmkvh6j1cjfe7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9l954g01cpl@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <r63gntgusivel7n51rdh2nmkvh6j1cjfe7 at 4ax.com>, Courageous says...
>
>
>>Python's potential in education, on the other hand,  is right 
>>down the middle mainstream. 
>
>I believe that this is quickly becoming not true. It used to be
>the case that Python's relative paucity of forms meant easily
>reading someone else's code. That's quickly changing, IMO.
>

One salespitch* I've used for Python is that it is so readable that experienced
C programmers can read simple programs without knowing any Python at all. 
However, when I've shown folks random, simple examples of code, it's always been
hard to explain slices.  Still, slices are essential so they're hard to avoid,
even in simple code.

But beyond slices, to keep Python simple enough even for folks like me to learn
(as it once was <wink>), I'd like to see it support something like "language
levels", in which one could turn off, via a command-line switch, the more
"abstract", less essential (and, notably, more recent) constructs like list
comprehensions and iterators/generators (which I think _will_ be useful--at
least once I figure them out <wink>).

Then, newibes who use such things will be punished by a traceback.

stop-me-before-I-"list-comprehend"-again-ly y'rs,

=g2
*After evangelizing for over a year, I've yet to sell it to anybody.  That's
ample evidence that I'm not a good salesman.

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Mon Aug 20 20:59:13 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 00:59:13 GMT
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b81b260$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's mainly because we rarely have to deal with people as
> arrogant as to insult what they clearly don't understand.  When
> you're as rude as to spew insults without understanding, then
> condescension is the least you can expect, in any social milieu.

And I rarely have to deal with head cases like you, in cyber space or
the real world.  There is nothing sacred about unix.  I can think
whatever I like about it. Your views are clear, and thank your for them.

To call me arrogant after writing what you have, is laughable. Arrogance
stems form feeling that you have the answer to all problems, and I would 
never claim such a thing. You, on the other hand, may fit the bill.

I work under a OS professor at UCSC, Scott Brandt.  Acording to him, the
only FACT that we know about operating systems is that page tables are
the perfect way to manage memory.  Other than that, all bets are off.  

Unix is defined by fork. It is a FACT that all unix implementations have
fork. I agree with this,  how can I argue with a definition?  It is by
no means a FACT that fork is the best way to do things.

I have no time for people egos, so I am going ignore anything else 
you bother posting to this thread.

Neil Macneale

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 10 20:21:02 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:21:02 -0700
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
References: <MPG.15de73c8adce39f2989690@rider>
Message-ID: <3B747A6E.26C5061E@alcyone.com>

Surial wrote:

> In java, you have 2 features which AFAIK are not available in Python,
> which I always assumed to be required for sandboxing:

Python is not Java.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    Physics reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/physics/
 A physics reference.


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug  5 20:06:58 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 00:06:58 GMT
Subject: Installing module: import error "No module named 'new'"
References: <gn4rmtcb2sjihff2cr6vm5sflevruioab8@4ax.com> <mailman.997050790.24946.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lknrmt4dcgf3f6jo30bu5b2senli15a7op@4ax.com>

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:32:47 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.997050790.24946.python-list at python.org>:

:
:It's unclear whether you had problems importing "new" on both platforms or
:only one.  "new" has long been enabled in the Windows Python distribution,
:and became enabled by *default* for other distributions beginning in 1.6.
:Whoever built your Linux version may have disabled it.  If you can't import
:"new" in Windows Python 2.0, something is seriously wrong.

I'm sorry...yes, I received no import error in Windows on the "new"
module. I've been looking at so many docs, and possible modules, and
database modules, and scripts and reading the Google/Deja archives, I'm
afraid I've become terribly confused.

I only had the "new" import error under Linux.

Now, under Windows I had a "fcntl" import error. However, that problem I
understand. Wish people would be more careful when they distribute
modules, to not say they run on "all" platforms, when in fact they are
using OS specific modules. <sigh>

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 15 05:53:21 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:53:21 GMT
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <7x3d6ui5ye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn.pl.9nkdkj.1md.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <7xsnetd56c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nkhkg.j74.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

15 Aug 2001 02:48:59 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> pisze:

> Anyway C apparently doesn't specify a behavior.

C89 doesn't, C99 does (towards 0).

Haskell has both: div & mod, quot & rem.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 03:14:56 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 00:14:56 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7x66bkjzbj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> GMP is pretty fast, and so is its wrapper GMPY.  See
> gmpy.sf.net.  I don't think it's a "weird kludge" to wrap
> a good multiprecision library to get at its functionality
> from Python -- I think it's rather Pythonic, actually.

Yes, using gmpy works pretty well if it's available.  But it's not a
standard Python module.  It's kind of a strange idea though, that
Python has built-in long ints but I have to use an add-on package if I
want to do simple operations like find out how large a number is.

I guess I'll probably use gmpy in my application if I can, because
it's quite a bit faster than Python's built-in arithmetic, though
Python's is quite respectable and useable (as compared to, say, perl's
Math::BigInt package.  

Thanks.


From vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi  Mon Aug 27 05:38:01 2001
From: vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:38:01 +0300
Subject: Distutils "not a regular file -- skipping"?!?
References: <yoxsnehd69h.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>
Message-ID: <yox3d6d3ksm.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>

I would also like to note that things work ok for bdist. Is there a
bug in 'setup sdist'? I'm using Activepython 2.1.1 (on win2k).

-- 
Ville Vainio - http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio - ICQ #115524762
 Wild geese have no intention to cast a reflection
 Water has no mind to assume their form


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 12:24:42 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:24:42 -0500
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <15217.26570.927426.956368@beluga.mojam.com>

    Adam> Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links
    Adam> to (or at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that
    Adam> have a Python environment.

Hmmm...  I didn't see anything like that in your first note.  Barry Warsaw
is the python-mode for Emacs author/maintainer.  There is a page on the
python.org website for Python & Emacs:

    http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/

It does have some links to Python support in other editors (Alpha and JED at
least).  If you have a URL for vi+Python I'm sure Barry would be happy to
add it to that page.  I suspect that eventually the site will get redone
pretty completely using Zope, at which perhaps this section of the website
will be generalized to something like "Text Editor Support for Python".

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca  Thu Aug  2 00:25:22 2001
From: mnenadov at stclairc.on.ca (Mark Nenadov)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:25:22 GMT
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>

In article <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list at python.org>, "Guido van
Rossum" <guido at zope.com> wrote:


> We have a broken hard drive on the machine that is www.python.org. CNRI
> claims there is no spare drive.  It may be a while before we resolve
> this.  In the mean time, here's a mirror: 
> http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/Python/www.python.org/  Here's a list of
> mirrors:
> http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/Python/www.python.org/Mirrors.html  --Guido
> van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

I never realized how addicted I was to "www.python.org" until it went down :)

-- 
"The use of COBOL criples the mind; its teaching should, therefore 
 be regarded as a criminal offence" - E. W. Dijkstra

~Mark Nenadov (author/editor for http://www.coffeecode.com)


From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Aug 16 11:37:11 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:37:11 GMT
Subject: sockets broken on New Install???
Message-ID: <shpnnto9suuk1smhikbloappjapn3rqjg6@4ax.com>

OK, so I *thought* I'd upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1.1. I have Linux host with
shell account for my web site. I find my way around Linux with
difficulty. (I'm really a Windows person <hangs head in shame>.)

So, I got Python-2.1.1.tgz on my site, unzipped it, and went to the top
directory and types:

./configure --prefix=/big/dom/xthinkspot

(that's the path to my top level directory)

And that looked fine.

Then I typed:
make install

and a bunch of stuff happened. And I now have a python2.1* executable in
the /big/dom/xthinkspot/bin 
directory. And the python* points to it. (Fortunately, my python2.0* is
still there, unaffected and functioning.)

And all the Lib modules seem to have been copied to
/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/*

BUT when I ran the make test, I got error messages that indicate
something is seriously wrong.

119 tests OK.
4 tests failed: test___all__ test_asynchat test_socket test_sundry
16 tests skipped: test_al test_cd test_cl test_dl test_gl test_imgfile
test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_minidom test_nis test_pyexpat
test_sax test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_winreg test_winsound
make: *** [test] Error 1

Having sockets not work is a real problem.

I brought up the 2.1.1 interpreter for an interactive session. I could
import several different modules, such as os and string, but when I
tried to import smtplib I get this error message:

>>> import smtplib
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/smtplib.py", line 42, in ?
    import socket
  File "/big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: /big/dom/xthinkspot/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so:
undefined
 symbol: ERR_load_RSAREF_strings

We just had a system upgrade last night. Went from an earlier Red Hat
Linux to RH 6.2 and glibc went from glibc-2.0.7 to glibc-2.1.3, but I
don't see why this should matter, since I'm recompiling and relinking
from scratch?

Please, help?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From jdoak at lanl.gov  Mon Aug 27 15:08:43 2001
From: jdoak at lanl.gov (Justin Doak)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:08:43 -0600
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
	        <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com> <15242.36734.805100.942581@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <3B8A9ABB.77734C2F@lanl.gov>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Justin> ... the GUI builder should be cross-platform (i.e., the code it
>     Justin> generates should work on Windows and Linux at least) and an open
>     Justin> source tool is preferable to a commercial one for cost
>     Justin> reasons.... If anyone has any thoughts on this matter, I'd love
>     Justin> to hear them.
> 
> You might want to check out the gtk/gnome-python/libglade/pyglade
> combination.

Interestingly enough, this was my first choice. I have experience using
this at my previous employer and was quite happy with it. (Note also the
GladeBase module written by Mitch Chapman,
http://www.bioreason.com/~brian/GladeBase.html. It automatically hooks
up callbacks to Python code and looks for .glade files off your
PYTHONPATH.) However, for the project I'm currently on, we need to
support both Linux and Windows environments. A little investigation
revealed that Gtk did not appear to be well supported on Windows. It
seemed that someone had attempted a port, but it was troublesome and
they weren't going to support it. If all these tools are reasonably well
supported on Windows, perhaps I can seriously consider this option
again. Is anyone using these tools on a linux box to develop GUIs, then
running them, reasonably trouble-free, on Windows?

JD
 
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/

-- 
==========================================================
Justin Doak
Safeguards Systems Group, NIS-7
Nonproliferation and International Security Division
Los Alamos National Laboratory
phone: (505)667-3377
fax: (505)667-7626
e-mail: jdoak at lanl.gov
mailstop: E541
==========================================================



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 01:05:33 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:05:33 -0500
Subject: Explain modules to me PLEASE
In-Reply-To: <20010815232428.01517.00000560@mb-cb.aol.com>
References: <20010815232428.01517.00000560@mb-cb.aol.com>
Message-ID: <15227.21661.405790.806821@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Can some one explain to a very new newbie how to use modules?

Modules are the standard way of structuring a Python program so it does not
grow into a monolithic mess.  (Python also provides packages, but they are
just modules in fancy dresses... ;-) Modules foster code reuse by isolating
functions, classes and data objects sharing common functionality into
discrete chunks.  They also provide a single level of hierarchy in naming
objects.  (Packages can provide arbitrary levels of namespace isolation.)

Consider the list of modules documented for the Python distribution:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/modindex.html

Take a look at the atexit module.  It's very small, just exporting a single
function: register.  Instead of having to reimplement its functionality in
my programs I can just import the atexit module and call its register
function to register any number of functions I want executed at program
exit.

Here's a trivial program that is implemented as three files, a.py:

    import atexit

    def work():
      print "whew! work is hard"

    def exit():
      print "module a is cleaned up"

    atexit.register(exit)

b.py:

    import atexit

    def work():
      print "not as hard as it might be"

    def exit():
      print "module b is spic and span"

    atexit.register(exit)

and a main program, prog.py:

    import a
    import b

    print "taking a nap..."
    import time
    time.sleep(5)

    print "maybe I should do some work..."
    a.work()
    b.work()

then run it, it prints out the nap message, then after a five second nap it
does its "work" by calling a.work and b.work, and when execution falls off
the end of prog.py and the Python interpreter is about to exit, your exit
functions are executed:

    % python prog.py
    taking a nap...
    maybe I should do some work...
    whew! work is hard
    not as hard as it might be
    module b is spic and span
    module a is cleaned up

Note that modules provide me with a way to keep pieces of my program from
conflicting with one another.  Both modules a and b defined functions named
"exit" and "work", but there was no conflict because the contexts of the two
modules were separate.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Aug  8 23:56:35 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 13:56:35 +1000
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost>

Jeremy Jones <dnjjones at yahoo.com> writes:

> I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
> set of data.  (Forgive me if I am not using the proper
> terminology or if what I mean by a term is completely
> different from what the rest of you mean by the same
> term.  I am still a very new newbie and am just
> converting to Python after a couple of years of perl. 
> I will try to clarify what I mean.)  By hierarchical,
> I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
> and that the parents and children should be aware of
> one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
> the parent should be aware of its children and
> children should be aware of their parents).  By
> dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
> very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
> in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
> of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
> variable and will be defined at run time.  I would
> prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.
>  Right now, I have the following, which is a three
> tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
> other:

If I understand you correctly, a 'tree' is not only a good way of
presenting this info to the user, it's also a straightforward way of
representing it internally.

You could build a fairly data structure called Tree which stores
nodes. Each node could consist of a piece of data, a reference to its
parent node, and a reference to a list of child nodes. (Like a doubly
linked list, except that you'd have a list of children instead of a
single 'next' pointer).

I'll pause here for confirmation that this is what you're looking
for. Perhaps it isn't.






From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 16:47:33 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:47:33 -0500
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <gZQj7.55$j9.417@castor.casema.net> <slrn9ovpna.qb9.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <O6Sj7.66$j9.376@castor.casema.net> <ltrvotoe3plvfeq1gg3bkmhbkrcnk3bpcf@4ax.com> <DmSj7.70$j9.429@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <tovu2p2pln5l11@corp.supernews.com>

Jeroen
1.  Where do you have Python installed on your PC?  Give me the complete
path.
2.  Under Python, do you have the subdirectory \Lib\lib-tk?
3.  Start Python and type:
>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
Could you please tell me what you are getting?
Maan

"jeroen paul goudsmit" <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:DmSj7.70$j9.429 at castor.casema.net...
> Thabk you so much.I think there's something wrong with my python then.
> "Sheila King" <sheila at spamcop.net> schreef in bericht
> news:ltrvotoe3plvfeq1gg3bkmhbkrcnk3bpcf at 4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:06:06 GMT, "jeroen paul goudsmit"
> > <hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> > <O6Sj7.66$j9.376 at castor.casema.net>:
> >
> > :It's very nice of you that you gave me that site, but it don't works..
I
> > :don't know why, i exactly wrote the lines from that site. I really get
> mad
> > :if it don't works. You go to a site and, it don't works.  That's
> annoying.
> > :Not your fault. I only say that the site sucks, cause it don't works.
> >
> > But that site "does work". The instructions on that site are correct,
> > and that is a classic site to be referred to for instruction on Tkinter.
> >
> > If you are following the instructions exactly, then something is not
> > right with your set up.
> >
> > Otherwise, maybe you are not following the instructions exactly.
> >
> > With what information you are posting here, it is very hard for us to
> > tell what is wrong.
> >
> > Give us a complete script, or a better yet, a complete copy and paste of
> > an interactive session from the time you start up the interpreter to the
> > time of the error messages. And include the error messages exactly as
> > printed by the Python interpreter (i.e. copy and past them. Do not
> > re-type them in your own words).
> >
> > Referring you to a different site for instruction would not help. If the
> > directions you copied didn't work from that site, they won't work from
> > another site, either.
> >
> > --
> > Sheila King
> > http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> > http://www.k12groups.org/
> >
>
>




From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug  1 19:13:20 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 16:13:20 -0700
Subject: "XXX rd_object called with exception set" on importing StringIO
Message-ID: <915a998f.0108011513.6a9452ef@posting.google.com>

I'm using Holger Meyer's DBAPI-compliant ingmod module for interfacing
to Ingres databases. After collecting my data and closing the database
connection, I then attempt to pass the data to another module to be
formatted for presentation. However when this module tries to import
StringIO, it crashes with the error message "XXX rd_object called with
exception set". Does anyone know what the problem might be? Is it a
thread issue (the ingmod module is stated to have threadsafety only of
0)?

Hamish Lawson


From fleet at teachout.org  Wed Aug  1 23:36:55 2001
From: fleet at teachout.org (fleet at teachout.org)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108012333200.19937-100000@fleet1>

>In article <861gmtojn1b9ohrvp3aqqdh927isp7297r at 4ax.com>, "Theasolon"
><inflicted at rocketmail.com> wrote: >
>
>> I'm newbie to this all, and done some research. I want to start to
learn programming, and I believe Python is a good language to start. I
have absolutely no experience in programming, so does anyone here have any
tips for newbies? I've found several tutorials etc, but if anyone has any
tips at all, please mail me. Maybe a good website to start etc.
>>

Something I'm finding immenseley helpful is keeping a python window open
while I read the digests of this group/list and trying out some of the
things I find interesting (or where at least I can comprehend the
concepts).

					- fleet -




From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug  1 21:03:55 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 01:03:55 GMT
Subject: Converting from strings to integers
References: <e66c2e45.0108011649.71a4ba3e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b68a595.1027529609@wa.news.verio.net>

On 1 Aug 2001 17:49:31 -0700, ssmith619 at hotmail.com (Stephen Smith) wrote:

>Hi, I'm new to Python and am just trying out an example of file I/O. 
>I am trying to read a file (successfully), and then multiply a value
>by another static variable.  The value from the file was outputting in
>the 'string' format, and I need to convert it into an integer.  I
>tried using the int(x) command, but it doesn't seem to care, it is
>still in the string format.  The number is a plain integer (87, for
>example).  How on earth do you convert the value to an integer? 
>Thanks for your help!

If you post a snippet of the code causing the problem, you will
get more than meta-helpful responses ;-)


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Wed Aug 15 10:29:49 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 10:29:49 -0400
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3d3d6tmm5e.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes:
> One question though: while I original wrote mimelib to handle the
> MIME-specific tasks, it really is shaping up to be a general mail
> handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
> "maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too
> generic.  So while mimelib will be able to replace even rfc822.py (at

How about putting it into a package named 'mail' or 'email'?  That
opens up the future option of migrating other mail-related modules
into the package.  (I really liked how turning the curses module into
a package made it much easier to add things like wrapper.py and
textpad.py, and think following this approach in newly added modules
is a good idea.)

--amk



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sat Aug 25 12:24:32 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:24:32 +0200
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
References: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <0gj8m9.h81.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:35:20 +0200, gradha at iname.com <gradha at iname.com> wrote:
>Hi.
>
>Promptly most of my scripts give SyntaxWarnings under Python 2.1.1, and the
>warning is so strange to me, and doesn't explain anything or point in any
>direction that I don't know exactly what to do. I've searched the
>documentation for warning, syntax and global keywords, but I don't seem to
>find what is making python angry. Here's the example:
>
>#!/usr/bin/env python
>
>expresion_include = "a string"
>
>if __name__ == "__main__":
>   global expresion_include
>   print expresion_include
>
>As said before, versions of Python 2.0 and earlier didn't show this warning.
>What is it and how do I make it go away?
>
>Forgot to say exact warning message:
>
>./test.py:0: SyntaxWarning: name 'expresion_include' is assigned to before
>  global declaration

Judging from the language reference, this looks like a bug to me: """
    The global statement is a declaration which holds for the entire
    current code block. It means that the listed identifiers are to be
    interpreted as globals."""

I only ever saw "global" used within functions, but the language ref. doesn't
include this restriction. IMHO when used at module-level, the global keyword
should simply be a no-operation. So that SyntaxWarning smells like a bug to me.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Fri Aug 31 18:13:16 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:13:16 -0600
Subject: extracting keywords from %(keyword)s-based templates
References: <BkKj7.464$fY6.179018240@news.telia.no> <9mnse0$knh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9mp27s$mob$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:
>Try:
>
>class KeywordTrap:
>    def __init__ (self):
>        self.allwords = {}
>
>    def __getitem__ (self, keyword):
>        self.allwords [keyword] = 1
>        return 0  # should work for %s and %d

To be more complete, this supports additional conversion types.
(Warning: untested)

class KeywordTrap:
  def __init__(self):
     self.allwords = {}
  def __getitem__(self, keyword):
     self.allwords[keyword] = 1
     return self
  def __int__(self): return 0
  def __str__(self): return ""
  def __float__(self): return 0.0
  def __oct__(self): return "0"
  def __hex__(self): return "0"
  def __long__(self): return 1L

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu  Tue Aug 21 20:04:55 2001
From: rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:04:55 -0400
Subject: input of data from keyboard
Message-ID: <9lusqh$bamlt$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
  what function can I use to get input from the keyboard (or stdin)?

TIA
-- 
--
Rajarshi Guha


From Lutz.Schroeer at kybernetik-manufaktur.de  Thu Aug 16 16:59:04 2001
From: Lutz.Schroeer at kybernetik-manufaktur.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 20:59:04 GMT
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B7961E3.B62804C3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru> <n7pbl9.id2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>
Message-ID: <Xns90FFE9D98B344Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>

I'm in the need of making the decision between TKinter and wxWindows this 
week and I think I'll stay to TKinter if I will be able to get SpecTcl 1.2a3 
to work on my W2K ('cause of the menu bar option). 

Lutz


From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 26 00:42:28 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:42:28 -0700
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
References: <mailman.998772879.5363.python-list@python.org> <lKWh7.39$Ks5.65379@nnrp2.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <bcvgotk15voi9lsfgddo0a9ij5581ohlau@4ax.com>

"john anon" <notta at chance.net> wrote:
>
>ya but --- there is no shell ... ah ... never mind

There IS a shell in Windows 2000.  There is even a shell in Windows
2002/XP.  They've moved its location in the Start menu; it used to be in
Start->Programs, and now it's in Start->Programs->Accessories, but it's
still there.  The functionality is exactly the same as in NT 4.0.

Or are you asking a more philosophical question here?
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Wed Aug  8 13:24:56 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 03:24:56 +1000
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net> <840bdd8f.0108080216.6dffdbc9@posting.google.com> <3B715082.A6E3443C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <87y9oumplj.fsf@xeno.localhost>

"Joseph A. Knapka" <jknapka at earthlink.net> writes:

> xauau wrote:
> 
> > It is [a two-liner] in Python too:
> > 
> > def permute(a):
> >     if len(a) == 0: return [[]]
> >     return [[x] + y for x in a[0] for y in permute(a[1:])]
> 
> Wow. So let me make sure I understand: this says:
> 
> >     if len(a) == 0: return [[]]
> 
> If there are no lists in a, return a list containing the
> empty list. Clear enough.
> 
> >     return [
> 
> A list, each of whose elements is
> 
> >	[x] + y
> 
> a list consisting of a single element [x] prepended
> to a list y
> 
> >          for x in a[0]
> 
> where x is a member of the first list in a
> 
> >            for y in permute(a[1:])]
> 
> and y is some permute() of all the other lists in a.

Yep, spot on. I can't improve your description. 

> ... a little non-obvious to the uninitiated.

Absolutely. I'm not very FP literate myself, but this kind of thing is
common in Lisp. Python makes it even easier, but unless you're
familiar with the core concepts it can seem strange. (Judging by the
above analysis, you'll pick it up pretty quickly though).

You might find this useful:

http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_13.txt


From shriek at gmx.co.uk  Tue Aug 14 09:26:26 2001
From: shriek at gmx.co.uk (Stephen)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 06:26:26 -0700
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
Message-ID: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>

I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and the 
numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages with attachments.  
I've found various solutions, some of which no longer seem to work, and 
was quite surprised how this seemingly banal task has caused so much trouble. 
However, in Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into
the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they 
display when the recipient views the message.  Just how does one compose
a message like that with Python may I ask? 

Also if I read between the lines of some posts in the archive, is it 
safe to assume that mimelib is the way to go for future MIME manipulation?
If so, would it be asking too much for a simple example snippet showing
how it is used becaues I can't work out where to start with it. In fact
I'm off to download Mailman in order to read the source and see how it uses
mimelib.  This is overkill on a par with taking apart your Range Rover in 
order to learn how carburetors work.  

Thank you for your patience.

Stephen.


From jim at publishingresources.com  Mon Aug 20 16:59:23 2001
From: jim at publishingresources.com (Jim Abrams)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:59:23 -0000
Subject: automating word 2000
References: <2Kbf7.769$5N2.215075@news1.iquest.net> <23891c90.0108200520.2626acde@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9103AC3EB118Bjimpublishingresourc@207.126.101.100>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in
<23891c90.0108200520.2626acde at posting.google.com>: 

>"dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
>news:<2Kbf7.769$5N2.215075 at news1.iquest.net>... 
>> i have an application that generates MS Word documents.  the
>> generating part works fine.  the trouble is that often while one
>> document is being written a second one will be started.  when this
>> happens, the second document becomes the default, both automating
>> processes only write to the default one making for a big mess (one
>> document with stuff in it from two controlling programs). 
>
>I have heard that Word's automation interface (or whatever you want to
>call it) won't permit the isolation you require, at least for Word 97.
>So, perhaps a queuing system is the order of the day for what you are
>trying to achieve.
>
>Paul

Some help might be here:

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q257/7/57.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q288/3/68.ASP

I haven't looked through them (and other linked KB articles) enough to be 
sure, but I vaugely remember summing up that a queue would be necessary.

I'd be very interested to hear of any discoveries you make concerning this, 
so please post your findings.

-J


From dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk  Fri Aug  3 21:09:31 2001
From: dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk (Dirksen Lau)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:09:31 +0800
Subject: Compatibility of smtplib with some SMTP server
Message-ID: <002201c11c82$1e1c4560$1e9b849e@iceman>

Hi,

I'm using my campus smtp server to test python's send mail script. It works if the mails are addressed to campus accounts, but strangely fails if addressed to outside networks, such as xx at yahoo.com, The mails just vanish! Using outlook express, I can send mails to xx at yahoo.com throught the campus smtp server. On the other hand, the script works again with xx at yahoo.com if I change to another smtp server. I'm wondering smtplib might have some compatibility issues with smtp server? Am I correct? If so, what can I do about it? I'm running python 1.5.2 win32 bineray version.

Cheers
Dirksen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010804/946d4d60/attachment.html>

From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 23 04:57:11 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:57:11 +0200
Subject: [Tutor] map, filter and lambda functions
Message-ID: <3B8769EA@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From "Kerim Borchaev" <warkid at storm.ru> =====
>Thursday, August 23, 2001, 9:23:50 AM, you wrote:
>
>RR> checklist = string.split(filetext, '\n')
>RR> checklist = filter(None, checklist)
>RR> checklist = map(string.strip, checklist)
>RR> checklist = map(string.upper, checklist)
>
>RR> If checklist is rather long, the last two may be written mor efficiently
>RR> as:
>
>RR> checklist = map(lambda x:string.upper(string.strip(x)), checklist)
>
>About efficiency - running the script below i get this:
>
>2.01
>1.32
>2.01
>1.32
>
>no luck for lambda...

On my box, these two are faster:

 print "trial 5:",
 def popo(x):
     return x.strip().upper()
 start = time.clock()
 for i in range(num_iter):
     checklist=l
     checklist = map(popo, checklist)
 stend = time.clock()
 print "%.2f"%(stend-start)

 print "trial 6:",
 start = time.clock()
 for i in range(num_iter):
     checklist=l
     checklist = [x.strip().upper() for x in checklist]
 stend = time.clock()
 print "%.2f"%(stend-start)

I'm on an overloaded NT box right now, and the results vary horribly for each 
run, but 5 and 6 are consistently faster than the rest.

Mzzl,

--Hans Nowak




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Aug 12 07:04:14 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 13:04:14 +0200
Subject: C API ?: checking if an object is a class
References: <mailman.997561701.27241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <j4vgjtk09d.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tavis Rudd <tavis at calrudd.com> writes:

> how do I check if a PyObject is a class object?
> Is there any equivalent of PyInstance_Check() that can do 
> this or do I need to use PyObject_Type()?  If it's the 
> later where do I get the 'class' PyType object?

Just use PyClass_Check.

Regards,
Martin


From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Fri Aug  3 16:03:52 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:03:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032334440.5521-100000@rnd.onego.ru> (message
	from Roman Suzi on Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:40:55 +0400 (MSD))
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108032334440.5521-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <200108032003.f73K3qk22865@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

 >From: Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
 >
 >Have you looked at Freshmeat close enough? I thought there
 >were several tools to make multi-machine administration easy.

        With the possible exception of Ganymede, none that I
especially care for.  I'm willing to consider simply gluing several
apps together (especially if it involves cfengine), but most of these
tools have wildly varying approaches.

 >Or maybe you just want to install Radius and let all AAA to
 >be done there. There are several Freeware variants available,
 >xtRadius for example.

        This is only one part of the equation.

 >I have not tried, but NIS and LDAP are also Open Source.

        This is true, but these tools solve very specific problems.
We do in fact use NIS here (all praise secure rpcbind) but this is
little more than a glorified networked /etc/passwd file.  Same for
LDAP, which is basically a database.  These are good *back* end tools,
which I expect any higher level tools to interact with nicely.  The
whole point of a system management infrastructure is to make putting
friendlier faces on these tasks easier and to make different
subsystems chat, at least as I see it.  For example, NIS doesn't give
me a way to link a user (/etc/passwd) with a specific machine, or
identify which printer (/etc/printcap) is closest to her.  LDAP
probably could.

 >Plus (if I understood correctly) you need backup solution. This is also
 >available from Freshmeat. Or you can buy BRU or something.

        We currently have a fine backup system, and I'm not sure how
I'd fit that in.  But I don't doubt someone would try, given a chance.

 >When selecting tools, look how scriptable they are.

        I agree.  Most fail miserably, or use exotic scripting
languages of their own.  COSadmin does a pretty good job, though, and
has somehow turned Unix pipes and shell scripts into a relational
database.

        What I desperately want is a way to make all these various
systems adminsitration tasks and databases available in a reasonably
consistent way.

--
wm



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Aug 26 11:53:27 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 08:53:27 -0700
Subject: Iterating throught 2 lists at the same time
References: <9m3rmg$8u55$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9mb61n$qvi$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9m3rmg$8u55$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>,
Rajarshi Guha  <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote:
>
>I know I could maintain counters and use the index notation - but it seems 
>a little crude for Python :) Are there any, more elegant ways?

zip() is the elegant way, but not if you're using 1.5.2; you'll probably
want to upgrade to Python 2.1.1 if you can.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."


From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 26 21:25:15 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:25:15 -0500
Subject: bsddb for simple database [very basic]
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oj2ef.bhp.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
References: <mailman.998864979.13957.python-list@python.org>
        <slrn9oj2ef.bhp.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <15241.41339.415528.123631@beluga.mojam.com>

    Artur> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
    >> On 26 Aug 2001, Artur Skura wrote:
    >>> etc, I will just have standard dictionary pairs, with strings.
    >>> I need records. How do I do that?
    >> 
    >> "Keys and values must be strings, however, so to use other objects as keys or
    >> to store other kinds of objects the user must serialize them somehow,
    >> typically using marshal.dumps or pickle.dumps."
    >> 
    >> You wanted very simple database functionality, you found it. Anything more
    >> complex is up to you.
 
    Artur> OK, I will use dumps/loads. I just thought there might be a more
    Artur> transparent way, maybe with another db module.

You might want to check out the shelve module.  The keys must still be
strings, but it transparently handles serialization of the values.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Fri Aug 17 04:08:38 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:08:38 +1000
Subject: What is a Function?
In-Reply-To: <5hipnt8p1selgoj8p7cdj72etrjq9mam8m@4ax.com>
References: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com> <5hipnt8p1selgoj8p7cdj72etrjq9mam8m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <01081718083803.02447@ike>

On Friday 17 August 2001 17:42, Courageous wrote:
> On 17 Aug 2001 07:33:49 GMT, patio87 at aol.com (Patio87) wrote:
> >What is a function?
>
> It's a amed point of code which can conduct an element of work.
> This work is often on data the function already knows about, can
> get access to, or is told about when the function is "called".

Sorry, gotta ask... what's an "amed" part of code? :)

Ahem.


   Richard



From wkuang at aludra.usc.edu  Fri Aug 10 17:47:12 2001
From: wkuang at aludra.usc.edu (wkuang)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:47:12 -0700
Subject: embed python in C++
In-Reply-To: <9ktmkt020cq@enews1.newsguy.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000@aludra.usc.edu> <9ktmkt020cq@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108101436070.18685-100000@aludra.usc.edu>

Is there anyone know how to install boost.python. The website said most
boost libary are implemented entirely within their header files, but the
makefile for linux have libboost_python.a, so I assume boost.python is one
of the exception. Basically, I havenot been able to run a single example
successfully. Any idea? Thanks.

I am using linux 7.1 with KCC 4.0e, gcc2.96 is kind of ok.

Wan Kuang

Electric Engineering - Electrophysics
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90007


On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "wkuang" <wkuang at aludra.usc.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0108081706040.6900-100000 at aludra.usc.edu...
> > hi,
> >
> > I am interested in having an interpreter handling my c++ program
> > input/output to add some flexibility, and someone tells me python maybe
> > one. I searched through python website and unfortanetly got little
> > information other than a page saying python could be embeded in C++
> > program. I am wondering if it is possible to have my c++ program read
> > memory that python generated. For example,
>     ...
> > Is there any book or website that elaborate embedding stuff? And any
> 
> If your C++ compiler is up to snuff, check out www.boost.org, and
> specifically the Boost Python Library: it makes it very easy to
> expose your program's classes to Python (that's the "extending"
> part of the "extending and embedding" paradigm).  Once you have
> that, the embedding proper is quite simple, and pretty well
> documented e.g. at http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html
> (which however focuses on the C-level approaches; Boost Python
> uses the most advanced C++ functionality, particularly templates,
> to let you do similar extending-things MUCH more smoothly:-).
> 
> If your C++ compiler isn't very good & updated, there are other
> approaches to exposing your application functionality to the
> scripting language -- the C-level Python API at the above URL,
> SWIG at http://www.swig.org/, CXX (if you have a decent but
> not really good C++ compiler) http://cxx.sourceforge.net/, and
> others yet.  Note that all of these focus on the hard part,
> extending -- embedding itself is much simpler, as
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/embedding.html says
> "The one important task that only embedders (as opposed to extension
> writers) of the Python interpreter have to worry about is the
> initialization, and possibly the finalization, of the Python interpreter".
> 
> For a simple example of embedding, see also
> http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/embed.html (seems to be down
> right now, but try Google at:
> http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&q=embedding+python
> it will be about the 7th hit and you can visit the
> 'Cached' entry to read it).
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> 



From fett at tradersdata.com  Mon Aug  6 14:09:43 2001
From: fett at tradersdata.com (fett at tradersdata.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:09:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: stripping html code
Message-ID: <200108061809.f76I9kl00701@vela.tradersdata.com>

I have a program that works in getting bible verses of the internet,
but when it prints it it has all the html all munged together.  Are
there any modules or utilities for removing html code.

				Thanks,
				Dan





From gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 00:30:46 2001
From: gReGlAnDrUm at earthlink.net (Greg Landrum)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:30:46 -0700
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
References: <280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9knqsc$drr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

"Shakeeb Alireza" <sa at bayt.net> wrote in message
news:280f26fb.0108061915.54ea1e98 at posting.google.com...
>
> However, I'm totally frustrated by the experience of creating
> extensions: nothing it seems is more unfriendly to newbies in the
> python world (at least in my experience) than information on embedding
> and extending python through c.
>

While I agree that the extending/embedding docs aren't necessarily as user
friendly as they could be, I would contend that they aren't really directed
at newbies.  Extending/embedding is an advanced topic.  This isn't to say
that you shouldn't be doing it, but you definitely should expect it to be
more challenging than using Python itself.

> I've tried unsuccessfully in the past to compile python extensions
> using cygwin, but failed for more than one reason or the other and
> then just gave up. Recently I downloaded Microsoft's freely available
> .NET SDK which contains the standard MS c/c++ compiler and libraries
> and I thought this would be an opportunity to try the python extension
> thing again.
>

You are making things a lot harder on yourself than they need to be.  You're
using a beta of a fragment of a build environment and then trying to apply
documentation which was written for people using the full environment.  If
you don't want to pay for your compiler, look into the Borland product,
which I know has been used to build python extensions.  I remember seeing at
least one how-to for this as well.

> Again, my main source of confusion was due to the documentation with
> its intermezzos, dearth of clear examples, and its essential
> assumption that the reader is already a proficient c coder and not a
> newbie (graduating to c extensions).

It's assuming that you are a newbie to writing extensions.  It certainly
isn't trying to teach you C.  Interlanguage stuff is always harder than
writing in a single language.  Probably the best first C project is
something other than writing an extension module.

> It further assumes you are using
> the gui of visual studio and not the compiler directly via command
> line.

This is partially true, and with a reason.  The standard build environment
under Windows is Visual Studio.  So the docs are written for the standard
env.

>
> (Please note that my knowledge of handling the compilation of c code
> is limited to tiny 'hello-world'-like programs.)
>

And that's a significant part of the problem here.

Python is easy, extension modules are not.

-greg




From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Thu Aug  2 09:35:15 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:35:15 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:17:52 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:32:52 GMT, ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:45:14 +1200, Greg Ewing
>><greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>"David C. Ullrich" wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> But why should the real and imag of a complex be required to be
>>>> floats in the first place? Why  shouldn't they be allowed to be
>>>> floats or rationals or integers?
>>>
>>>A complex number, in the mathematical sense, is 
>>>not a pair of other numbers -- that's just one 
>>>way of *representing* a complex number.
>>
>>Well thanks for clarifying _that_. Duh.
>>
>>(Not that it makes any difference here, but
>>since you undertstand the math so much better
>>than I do: Exactly what definition of
>>"complex number" do you have in mind here?
>>The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
>>real numbers".)
>>
>Well, he *is* trying to pay attention to representation issues,
>which I think is good ;-) 

Paying attention to representation issues may very well be
a good thing, depending on the context. That's not the
same thing as saying that what the mathematical definition
of a complex number is should have a bearing on how complexes
should work in Python - that seems just silly. (The idea that
the "correct" mathematical definition should be an important
factor seems silly to me regardless of what the definition
actually is. I am curious what definition he has in mind
other than "pair of real numbers". Another mathematical
definition would be "element of the algebraic completion
of R", but _that's_ certainly not a definition we want
to use as a basis for the internal representation or
a basis for how the interface should work. And I can't
think of a third definition this morning...)

>but it sounded like the horse wasn't
>quite hitched right, the way I read it.
>[...]
>
>It looks to me like the problem is that the Python internal representation
>in C of complex actually *is* two doubles, not two python numbers.
>
>Probably because for using external libraries it makes it a lot faster if you
>don't first have to convert Python's numeric objects and make a pair
>of doubles -- especially since you probably always get doubles back.
>
>I don't think there is there's any reason you *couldn't*
>use general numbers (excluding complex ;-) as the real and imag parts.
>I'm guessing it would just be a lot of mostly boring rework programming
>and there's hotter things now for the internals people 

"Well of course" to all of that. I think this is the fourth time
I've said that I'm not actually suggesting that complexes be
changed this way.

But people at present _are_ talking about all sorts of major changes
to the way numberic types work, and most of those changes sound
like they will require revisions to the internal representation,
and revisions that don't sound like they're going to speed things
up.

>(of which I'm not one,
>in case the thought occurred. Not that I wouldn't like to be at some point ;-).
>The trick would be to preserve speed and still get generality. I think it
>could be done, but is that where you want to allocate the people who both
>can and are in a position to do that?

Of course that's not where I would allocate those resources.

_In_ a context where people _are_ talking about making some
types (or possibly values) officially exact and some 
officially inexact the question of how complexes should
work seems like a reasonable question. Someone said they
should go ether way, someone else said that they should
be exact because floats should always be exact. The
fact that floats should always be exact does not imply
that complexes should always be exact _unless_ we've 
already decided that when we change how everything else
works we're not going to change the internal representation
of complexes. Seemed worth pointing this out. Preserving
speed would be nice, but it doesn't sound like that's
being taken as the primary consideration in the other
revisions being proposed. The bit about allocating
programmer resources is exactly why I keep saying that
this is not an actual request _until_ the point at
which they give up and start giving everybody their own
version of Python.

>Anyway, the abstract aspects of things are more interesting.
>At least until I'm hungry ;-)
>
>from complexobject.h:
>
>typedef struct {
>    double real;
>    double imag;
>} Py_complex;
>...
>/*
>PyComplexObject represents a complex number with double-precision
>real and imaginary parts.
>*/
>
>typedef struct {
>    PyObject_HEAD
>    Py_complex cval;
>} PyComplexObject;     

I've never used NumPY much. My impression is that NumPY
arrays are somehow rigged so manipulating an array of floats
is very fast but you can also have an array of any sort
of Python object which can be manipulated through the
same interface, just slower because the array elements
are being handled at a different level. In spite of the
extreme generality I gather that nobody has complaints
with the speed of arrays of floats.

I guess that's just NumPY arrays, couldn't be done
with complexes. Because, um, well I'm not a 
professional programmer so I can't quite see why
doing complexes this way would be harder than
arrays.




David C. Ullrich


From lcampbell at ubytes.com  Sat Aug 18 10:35:12 2001
From: lcampbell at ubytes.com (liam)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:35:12 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org> <3B7E5390.C6966CAD@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <62vf7.4717$Vs2.403505@news.pacbell.net>

agreed, its fine to leave it to yourself to know not to change a constant
but if its a big project constants would be a nice plus so your associates
dont mess thing up, accidently?
"Michael Str?der" <michael at stroeder.com> wrote in message
news:3B7E5390.C6966CAD at stroeder.com...
> Brian Quinlan wrote:
> >
> > > i found a similar example on the net i was just making sure.
> > > seems kinda alot of work just to get a constant. even perl
> > > has "use constant" and thats about the ugliest language around :)
> >
> > The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> > constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> > enough for you.
>
> To avoid that another developer in the team changes the constant
> accidently?
>
> Ciao, Michael.
>




From wware at alum.mit.edu  Mon Aug 27 23:08:23 2001
From: wware at alum.mit.edu (Will Ware)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:08:23 -0400
Subject: standard funcs in ext. module..
References: <Nbvi7.45249$Vs4.383777@zonnet-reader-1>
Message-ID: <3B8B0B27.3080906@alum.mit.edu>

Gorny wrote:

> static void Xxo_dealloc(XxoObject *self)
> static PyObject *
> Xxo_getattr(XxoObject *self, char *name)
> static int
> Xxo_setattr(XxoObject *self, char *name, PyObject *v)
> 
> these are not mentiond in the methods passed to Py_InitModule().
> In what circumstances calls the python interpreter these functions?

These become methods of an Xxo object. If you look at Modules/xxmodule.c
you'll see the same things (I'm assuming you were looking previously at
Objects/xxobject.c). You'll see that Xxo_getattr is called out in the
Xxo_Type struct, as the "getattr" method. So the time these would get
invoked would be when you did this:

import xx
myXXobject = xx.new()
myXXobject.foo = 3      # this will call Xxo_setattr
print myXXobject.foo    # this will call Xxo_getattr

> import Xxo
> getattr(Xxo, 'foobar')   <---- calling Xxo_getattr()???

I got curious enough to try this:

% gcc -I.. -I../Include -c xxmodule.c
% gcc -shared -o xx.so xxmodule.o
% python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Mar  3 2001, 01:35:43)  [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat 
Linux 7.1 2 on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
 >>> import xx
 >>> z = xx.new()
 >>> dir(z)
['demo']
 >>> z.demo()
 >>> getattr(z, "demo")
<built-in method demo of Xxo object at 80b66a0>
 >>> getattr(Xxo, "demo")
Traceback (innermost last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: Xxo
 >>> type(z)
<type 'Xxo'>
 >>> getattr(xx, "demo")
Traceback (innermost last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: demo

If you built and linked xxobject.c, it probably wouldn't make
sense to say "import Xxo", any more than you say "import intobject"
before using integers. So there'd be no "Xxo" in the namespace, and
you'd expect a NameError (as I got above) when you tried
getattr(Xxo, "demo").



From sagwy at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 11 13:21:54 2001
From: sagwy at earthlink.net (mo)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:21:54 GMT
Subject: [Q] listboxes end entryfield in dialog?
References: <7Ahc7.4326$A3.35219@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <SQdd7.2364$Kl2.249910@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

> I'm wondering if putting two listboxes (w/ multiple selection) and one
> entryfield in the dialog (e.g., in a selectiondialog). A  short example code
> would be very helpful to me. Thanks.


   http://www.sys-con.com/java/source.cfm?id=1109,    

Though it's Java code which accompanied an article entitled
 "FavoritesComboBox:" in the August 2001 issue of 
Java Developers Journal, you might find it a helpful example
 in constructing something similar in Python.



-- 
Mo



From new_name at mit.edu  Sat Aug 18 00:13:39 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 00:13:39 -0400
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <etd1ymaj98s.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

I can't think of a good reason to make such a port.  Why not just
provide interfaces that C++ programs can use, or write the slow parts of
the python program in C/C++?

Alex.


From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug 26 03:42:39 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:42:39 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998799639.28464.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PL1i7.138061$EP6.38219042@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998799639.28464.python-list at python.org...
> [Terry Reedy]
> > ...
> > You example reminded me of a different use for variable
indentaton:
> > outlines, such as I did in school.  (Yes, some styles uses letters
and
> > numbers to redundantly indicate depth, but not all do.)  I wonder
if
> > the people who do not like semantic indents might be people who
did not
> > like doing outlines in school.
...
> Hmm.  The idea that someone could dislike outlining is so foreign to
me I'd
> be hard pressed to consider such a one human.

A little harsh?...   Its been over thirty years, but I have pretty
distinct memory of outline assignments in English class and people
grumbling specifically about such assignments.  Logical, organized
thinking is foreign to some people.

Terry J. Reedy





From hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl  Wed Aug 29 13:08:48 2001
From: hcj.goudsmit at wanadoo.nl (jeroen paul goudsmit)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:08:48 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080923.1294.python-list@python.org> <ZE4j7.33$Cz3.327@pollux.casema.net> <3B8CF936.4E20B7E8@student.gu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Ak9j7.72$Cz3.594@pollux.casema.net>

Thank you all so much. I'll just go to www.python.org to download it all.

(my pc is:   os - Windows ME (it sucks!)
                  processor - AMD duron 800 mhz (sucks too)
                  RAM - 128 (getting 128 extra next saturday...)

I'm 14 years old and program only form the fun.




From huaiyu at linux.local  Wed Aug  8 21:33:34 2001
From: huaiyu at linux.local (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 01:33:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Problem: readline in Python 2.1 on SuSE 7.1
Message-ID: <slrn9n3q3s.8rv.huaiyu@linux.local>

Problem installing Python 2.1 on SuSE 7.1 with readline support.

I've tried several variations of the configuration options

#readline readline.c -lreadline -ltermcap
#readline readline.c -lreadline
#readline readline.c -L/usr/lib -lreadline
readline readline.c -lreadline -L/usr/share/misc/termcap

None of them worked.  Any ideas?  Following are what I found on the system:

$ locate termcap
/etc/termcap
/usr/include/termcap.h
/usr/lib/perl5/5.6.0/termcap.pl
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/i586-linux/termcap.ph
/usr/lib/zsh/3.1.9/zsh/termcap.so
/usr/share/doc/packages/wterm/etc/wterm.termcap
/usr/share/emacs/20.7/etc/termcap.src
/usr/share/man/man3/termcap.3ncurses.gz
/usr/share/man/man5/termcap.5.gz
/usr/share/misc/termcap
/usr/share/zsh/help/termcap
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/etc/sun.termcap
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/etc/xterm.termcap


Huaiyu


From tom-list at home.com  Wed Aug  1 18:26:30 2001
From: tom-list at home.com (Tom)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:26:30 -0400
Subject: User Method CAN be based on built-in function!?
Message-ID: <3b688229_5@Usenet.com>

I find this odd.

In my experiments with Python 2.1.1 on Windows 2000, a user-defined method
can be based on a 'builtin function'.

In other words, I call PyObject_GetAttrString( pPyObject, "im_func" ),
and a built-in function type object is returned.

How can this be?

Tom.





Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------        
                http://www.usenet.com


From guido at python.org  Tue Aug 14 18:35:01 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:35:01 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:06:36 EDT."
             <20010814180636.R27040@starmedia.net> 
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com> <20010814123207.D27040@starmedia.net> <200108141906.f7EJ6iR11000@odiug.digicool.com>  
            <20010814180636.R27040@starmedia.net> 
Message-ID: <200108142235.SAA21102@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Thanks for the feedback, Drew!

> From: Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com>

> Now to try and figure out why (I've heard about this stuff) my __getattr__
> function is going into recursive death.

Probably because it *always* gets called rather than only for missing
attributes.  The tutorial gives a brief example.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 24 06:29:09 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: send escape char with telnet
In-Reply-To: <6b7fde59.0108240205.10a4fd56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108240628500.14247-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 24 Aug 2001, Federico Barbazza wrote:

> hi all,
> i want to send an escape char ( simulate an esc key press) to my
> client via telnet.
> If i use write("\e") i just send the char "\e", so my client browse it
> as a normal char.
> Any idea??
> thanks in advance,
> Federico.

Try using chr(27) instead.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 21:26:59 2001
From: grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com (Jeff Grimmett)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:26:59 -0700
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
References: <2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9@posting.google.com> <tooqoh5kr9a5bd@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2df3d89d.0108291726.3c1d9b1a@posting.google.com>

First of all, thanks for the response. I *did* manage to sort it out
after another pot of coffee. Typical new-to-whatever mistakes piled
up.

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<tooqoh5kr9a5bd at news.supernews.com>...

> >    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> >    s.bind(('', 23))
> >    s.listen(1)
 
> Doesn't your listen have to be in a loop? Each time it returns, the return
> from listen is a new connection socket descriptor (file descriptor). Then

The Python socket object documentation doesn't indicate that anything
is returned. Instead, a new socket paired with an address tuple is
returned for each new connection by using s.accept(). Unfortunately,
the listen method is buried in _socket.lib and I haven't downloaded
the source to that.

Admittedly, it could be an error in the docs, too.

The *problem* was that I piled up a lot of mistakes on each other. For
example, I was able to make any number of connections to the above
socket using s.accept(), but wasn't able to do much with them. I'd end
up with all three piled up on select.select()'s return list, but after
the first was handled the program would exist or whatever.

In general, what I needed to do was:

# Set up socket, bind it, and start listening for connections.
s1 = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s1.bind(('', 23))
s1.listen(1)

while 1: # Keep listening until something breaks the program

    # The program will dwell here until a connection is attempted.
    # A new socket plus an address tuple is returned when that happens
    c, addr = s1.accept()
    print 'connection accepted from address ', addr

    # This part is pretty bogus, but this is 'sandbox mode'
    # More or less, build a list of connections to listen to...
    conns.append(c)

    # ... and pass the list to select.select
    caller = select.select(conns,[],[])

    # If we're here, select() has detected a request (or more than 1)
that
    # needs handled.
    for i in caller[0]:

        # Here's my big screw up -- I wasn't handling data to
completion
        # This is a really simplistic loop but more or less represents
        # what I needed to do
        while 1:
            data = i.recv(512)
            if not data : break # Gotta get out of the loop somehow
...
            i.send(data) # Echo data back

Mind you, this is the sandbox and nowhere near usable for anything by
anyone, but the essentials of this seem to work for multiple telnet
connections.

Having cleared up the stupid human tricks, I moved on to SocketServer
anyway. It's threading mixin is best suited to what I need. Seems to
work, too! :-)

Thanks!


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 29 15:30:46 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:30:46 +0200
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
References: <mailman.999033582.32553.python-list@python.org> <NjVi7.185773$g_3.33739543@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3046523.MGUh0CODmn@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> schrub:

> Hidden = '<input type=hidden name=AnyNameHere value='+str(VAR1)+'>'

Yes, that works, but the Solution from Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams

>> print '<input type="hidden" name="VAR1" value="%s">' % VAR1

Should be faster, especially when using lots of pluses, as the plus 
operator generates an string at every addition that is just for the GC.

markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From jarrett at engineer.com  Fri Aug 10 11:41:44 2001
From: jarrett at engineer.com (W. Jarrett Campbell)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:41:44 GMT
Subject: MatPy win32 question (cephes.pyd)
Message-ID: <YgTc7.373338$lq1.79828744@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

I'm trying to get MatPy running on my win32 Python 2.1 installation.  I've
gone through and installed all the prerequisites per the documentation but
I'm having some trouble running the tests.  My issue seems to be around the
use of cephes.pyd.  The version that I have downloaded requires python15.dll
but I'm running python 2.1.  I downloaded python15.dll and put it in my path
but when cephes tries to access it, I get a message saying :


E:\Python21\MatPy\tests>python test_basic.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test_basic.py", line 9, in ?
    from MatPy.mfuncs import expm, logm, sqrtm
  File "e:\python21\MatPy\mfuncs.py", line 1, in ?
    import SpecialFuncs
  File "e:\python21\SpecialFuncs.py", line 1, in ?
    from cephes import *
ImportError: Module use of python15.dll conflicts with this version of
Python.

E:\Python21\MatPy\tests>



Is there a cephes.pyd built for Python 2.1 on win32 systems that I can
download?  Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

W. Jarrett Campbell
jarrett at engineer.com




From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Sat Aug  4 09:33:12 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:33:12 GMT
Subject: no do...while ?
References: <9kgr1i$qh$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <sQSa7.205807$T97.24648935@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Thomas Weidner <wolf359_ at gmx.net> menulis:
| Hi NG,
| 
| I think everybody knows what a do{...}while(...); loop in c is,but is there
| something like that in python ?

do {
    do_stuff();
} while(test());

can be written like this in Python:

while 1:
    do_stuff()
    if not test(): break


-- 
Cliff Crawford                           http://www.sowrong.org/
"Today's Goths, who generally tend to be in their teens and 20s,
have nothing to do with the Germanic Visigoths of Europe in the
third and fourth centuries A.D."               -- Jimmy Stewart


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 08:22:51 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:22:51 +0100
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org>
 <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
 <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com> <9l7kq5$6fn$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <9l7tm10rt@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ziFNPVAbmme7EwAd@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <9l7tm10rt at enews2.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>Guido's counter-argument is that classes that need to be dynamic
>will emerge in testing, while having dynamism as the default might
>lead to it being used wantonly and making later optimization hard.
>On this issue as well as unchangeability of __class__, he seems to
>be very motivated towards performance/optimization possibilities,
>which may explain the eerie C++ parallels (performance was always
>paramount in C++'s design, while, so far, it doesn't seem to have
>had all that strong an influence on Python).
>
>He may be right, of course (he generally is) -- perhaps we've all
>grown used to a Python that's in good part defined by dynamic
>possibilities that "just happened" to fall out of implementation
>techniques and were never a design-intent (if somebody knows
>the design-intent, it should be him:-), and giving up on those
>will have a general benefit in terms of performance increase.  I
>still believe that when I need performance I code or recode in
>C++, or in C, and I'd like Python to stay simple and wonderful.
>But many (particularly those who have not exploited the dynamic
>possibilities, are not familiar with C++, etc) may agree with Guido.
>
>It will surely be a very different language when this type/class
>unification thing gets finished...!
>
>
>Alex
>
I'm with Alex on this. Many of the latest changes seem to be in the
direction of making Python less and less dynamic in favour of speed or
regularity. I believe Python should be more dynamic not less.

The unification was supposed to bring the types into the class world.
This thread seems to indicate classes being made more like types.

The problem with dynamic not being the default is that the requirement
for dynamic behaviour is not very obvious.

If this class assignment is disallowed what about messing with __bases__
as in the injective/mixin methodologies?
-- 
Robin Becker


From cb921 at voice.co.za  Sat Aug 11 07:57:47 2001
From: cb921 at voice.co.za (Campbell)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:57:47 +0200
Subject: Windows DLL import error (bug?)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.997472897.3456.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.997472897.3456.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0108111351170.13836-100000@cb921.local>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

>While NTFS is case-preserving but case-insensitive, Python switched to
>case-sensitive imports on all platforms; see PEP 235 for details:
>
>    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0235.html
>
>If you can't keep your cases straight, you can set the envar PYTHONCASEOK,
>and then Python will ignore import case on Windows.  Not recommended,
>though.  Also move to the 2.1 bugfix release, 2.1.1 -- IIRC, it fixed some
>endcase import glitches on Windows.
>

As well handled as this issue seems to be it is the first unpleasant
surprise Python has given me.  Thanks for the help, again.



From martijn_500 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 28 16:54:08 2001
From: martijn_500 at hotmail.com (Martijn)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:54:08 +0200
Subject: TypeError
References: <3B8AB9F7.4020707@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B8C04F0.30906@hotmail.com>

Martijn wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I`ve got this error every time I want to use my classes and I can`t 
> figure out what`s wrong. My code is ok and I`ve used some examples from 
> a book to check it but I get the same error message.This is what happends:
> 
>  >>> import MyClassFile
>  >>> m = MyClassFunction()
> Traceback (innermost last)
>         File "<stdin>"
> TypeError: Call of nonfunction (type module)
> 
> I also tried:
> 
>  >>> import MyClassFile
>  >>> m = MyClassFile.MyClassFunction()
> 
> And finaly :
> 
>  >>> from MyClassfile import *
>  >>> m = MyClassFunction()
> 
> Both give me the same errors. What am i doing wrong ?!? I am using Linux 
> btw.
> 
> 
> Thanx in advance,
> 
> 
> Martijn

It still doesn`t work. This is a code snippet example from Python 2.1 Bible:

class Wallet:
	"where does my money go ?"
		WalletCnt = 0
	def __init__(self,balance = 0):
		self.balance = balance
		Wallet.WalletCnt = Wallet.WalletCnt + 1
	def getPaid(self,amnt):
		self.balance = self.balance +1
		self.display()

	def spend(self,amnt):
		self.balance = self.balance -1
		self.display()
	
	def display:
		print 'New Balance: $%.2f; % self.balance






From mike-list at wakerly.com  Fri Aug 10 15:46:43 2001
From: mike-list at wakerly.com (mike wakerly)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:46:43 -0700 (PST)
Subject: Threads, namespaces, and the immortal event
Message-ID: <200108101946.PAA09366@bellerophon.cnchost.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010810/eabdf17c/attachment.ksh>

From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Aug  2 01:07:45 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 01:07:45 -0400
Subject: grok.py (module I found)
References: <9k9ftb$hdk$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3B68E020.95AD2935@engcorp.com>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> 
> I've found this module somewhere linked from the Vaults of Parnassus,
> but then my browser crashed and I can't find the link anymore. Did it
> disappear from the vaults? The web page had a bunch of other interesting
> modules I wanted to check out. The URL had /psu at the end, I believe, but
> it's not in my browser history, probably due to the crash.. The code
> seems to be something for Python 3k.

> def grok(text):
>     # remember the time when we called this function
>     call_time = time.time()
> 
[...]
>     # otherwise, we want to time travel back to the moment in time
>     # just before (one second) we called the function, and try again
>     return timetravel.apply_at_time(grok, [text], {}, call_time - 1)

Ha!  More evidence that Python is one of the most optimizable 
languages ever.  Eventually we'll be able to use this construct
to execute many operations instantly, rather than just in 
parallel, resulting in O(n/n) behavior for all NP-complete
algorithms (and O(n/inf) for the incomplete ones).

And to think that this all began with the recent experiments
into Python-based quantum computing that the PSU h


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Sat Aug 25 14:32:51 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan Hamze)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:32:51 GMT
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
Message-ID: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Unless I am missing something, I have looked and I Tkinter does not seem to
have a DataGrid to receive the rows of a query (a dataset) and display them
or to bind it into a dataset.  There is the Python DB API after all.  So I
believe the issue of Datasets should be standardized across the different
database packages.
Now, I believe I have an idea on how to build a class and use it in Python
that can do exactly this.
But does Tkinter have a DataGrid?  If not, are there any other GUI Python
packages that come with a DataGrid?
Maan





From ws-news at gmx.at  Fri Aug  3 07:12:07 2001
From: ws-news at gmx.at (Werner Schiendl)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:12:07 +0200
Subject: PyQt for win32
References: <3B6A3635.9BF5981E@telocity.com> <3b6a6ab2$0$31962$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <3b6a87ad$0$26752$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Hi,

Sorry, forgot to add a link

here it is:
http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/platformsdk/setuplauncher.asp

regards
Werner




From trelis at mindspring.com  Sat Aug 11 19:49:51 2001
From: trelis at mindspring.com (jsnyder)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:49:51 -0400
Subject: Reloading modules into interpreter
References: <9l48os$dg3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9l4b510251b@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9l4ge0$m0q$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

> But there's more!  If when you click this toolbar-button the current
> MDI child-window in Pythonwin is one with a module being edited,
> you don't even have the bother of the file-selection box -- it knows
> the module you want to import or reload is specifically the one
> in the current MDI child-window.  Nice, isn't it?-)
>
>
> Alex
I'm using IDLE v0.8 and there are no icons.  Are we referring to the same
thing?

-Joe




From ulf.kister at t-online.de  Sun Aug 12 13:05:47 2001
From: ulf.kister at t-online.de (Ulf Kister)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 19:05:47 +0200
Subject: gnus/nnml to mbox converter with python
References: <87g0aybfki.fsf@harry.my.net> <mailman.997627761.787.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vgjtb444.fsf@harry.my.net>

Hi,

thanks for the hints. From comp.emacs.xemacs I received another one,
pointing me to a gnus built-in functionality (slightly blushing :-)
and grepmail( http://grepmail.sourceforge.net/) which is written in
the wrong language for me (PERL), but ready-to-use.

pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Fran?ois Pinard) writes:

> [useful tips]

thanks, Ulf
-- 
gpg public key at http://www.keyserver.net/


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Wed Aug  1 16:38:34 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:38:34 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com>
Message-ID: <200108012043.f71Kh3913956@hera.cuci.nl>

On 1 Aug 01, at 13:35, Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com wrote:

[Arthur Siegel, on Guido]
> Read his last post  on the Changing the Division Operator
> thread.  
> 
> He takes zero responsibility.

Let's see. I read:

"We want to allow at least two years for the transition.  If Python 3.0 comes 
out sooner, we'll keep the 2.x line alive for backwards compatibility until at 
least two years from the release of Python 2.2.  In practice, you will be able 
to continue to use the Python 2.x line for several years after Python 3.0 is 
released, so you can take your time with the transition."

...Doesn't sound like taking zero responsibility to me. I also read:

"Much of the initial communication was done by people who hadn't read
the PEP and misstated the plan (e.g. omitting the transitional period
or the separate int division operator).  Then others started
complaining about the poorly laid-out plan -- again without reading
the PEP.  Typical usenet style -- I don't know how we could have
avoided this."

If the shoe fits...

> Its all a matter of correcting Tim's bad design advice (was that actually
> in a thread ?, I only saw reference to it) , Moshe's bad PEP,
> misreprentations
> of his own clear words and intentions,  usenet folk, etc.

Seems like a lot of incapable people have had their hands on Python. Makes you 
wonder how it managed to survive and grow during those 10 years. >-)

I think people don't know how good they have it with Python. At my work we are 
using Delphi. Delphi 4 was so bug-ridden that it needed three *large* update 
packs, after which every glitch still wasn't solved, so we needed to patch the 
source of some of the library modules. In order to use the new technology that 
contained many of these bugs ("Midas") you had to pay for a license for every 
client using it. 
As for changes between versions... components have been known to change and 
disappear, but to give a more specific example, database programs in D4 and 
lower required the Borland Database Engine. Suddenly in D5 this is not 
supported anymore, i.e. the BDE isn't updated, so you cannot connect to a more 
recent database, like, say, Access 2000. A very nice surprise if your customer 
wants to migrate from Access 97 to 2000... not!

Guido has been going out of his way to keep new versions of Python backward-
compatible. When he did make incompatible changes, he strived to make this as 
painless as possible. And this is the way the "community" thanks him for it? 
While the announced change may be controversial, this is hardly something he 
deserves.

Uit van hier,

--Hans Nowak (zephyrfalcon at hvision.nl)
You call me a masterless man. You are wrong. I am my own master.
May a wicked smurf bear your hemp plants!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 05:17:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:17:00 +0200
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de> <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com> <slrn9n842d.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9l1fnr01f4d@enews2.newsguy.com> <slrn9n9auf.114.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <9l2uge1egu@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9n9auf.114.grante at tuxtop.visi.com...
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:20:08 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >    ...
> >> > Use different callables for the callbacks -- if it must be
> >    ...
> >> A slightly different way is to use lamgda.  It's best for
> >> simple cases where you just want to pass a few arguments that
> >
> >I disagree with your claim that it's best.
>
> My phrasing was bad.  What I meant was that of the various
> situations where one might use lambda the simplest cases are
> the best candidates for lambda usage.  I wasn't claiming that
> lambda is the best option compared to curry or local defs.

Then I completely agree with you!  Yes, if you do want to use
lambda, using it in simple cases is much better than using it
in complicated cases.


> >>  15    b.bind("<Button-1>",lambda event,xx=x,yy=y:
board.toggleSpace(xx,yy))
> >
> >I'd code this (assuming no nested scope, just as you're
> >assuming):
> >
> >         def togglethis(event, xx=x,yy=y):
> >             board.toggleSpace(xx,yy)
> >         b.bind("<Button-1>", togglethis)
>
> That's definitely better.  For some reason (undoubtedly due to
> restrictions in other languages) I often forget that I can use
> a "def" inside the body of a function.

It's easy to forget it, which is why I keep posting subtle
reminders thereof:-).  C and C++ don't let one nest functions,
and while that does simplify the language, sometimes it's
slightly constraining.  (Scheme, OTOH, is quite happy with
nested functions -- be they named or unnamed -- indeed,
the named form is defined in term of the unnamed lambda
form, which seems quite a bit better than giving named and
unnamed forms of nested functions different abilities, as
Python does:-).

> In this case, it's probably a lambda because this program was
> translated from Scheme, and it was already a lambda. :)

Ability to transliterate from other languages to Python is
indeed often useful (e.g. for didactical purposes) so it's
good to keep in mind possible structural parallels.  Alas,
Python's lambda is so constrained that it's rare one can
use it for transliteration (although when the body is just
an expression, it's indeed possible).


> >I am or used to be enough of a schemer that our common-lisp
> >friend recently caught me out as an adorer of tail recursion,
>
> Yup, I was recentlry caught with my Scheme history showing when I
> assumed that recursion was a preferred flow-control mechanism
> in CL.

So we're in the same boat:-).


> >but I still dislike _Python's_ lambda, with all of its limits
> >and issues.
>
> It's obscure _and_ crippled.  One or the other could be
> tolerated.  I've been tripped up by lambda's scoping issues
> more than once (but local def's have the same problem -- at
> least for now).

"from __future__ import" is your friend (for either lambda
or local def).  But the 'crippled' part doesn't go away (with
lambda -- no such issues with local def).


> >A local def appears to me to be a preferable solution in just
> >about every case.
>
> I can't really come up with an example where a lamba is
> superior to a local def for anything that's not completely
> trivial.  The only place a lamba seems like a good option is
> applying a trivial function using map() or filter(). But, that
> usage has been made largely redundant with list comprehensions.

Good point.  Yes, that was one important effect of list
comprehensions.


> But -- since there's no such thing as tuple-comprehensions,
> you still need filter() if you're working with tuples, so maybe
> lambda still has some utility is situations like:
>
>  t2 = filter(lambda x: x>0, t1)

Yes, looks better than t2 = tuple([x for x in t1 if x>0]), although
the latter may be more readable (not everybody knows that
filter, while returning a list for most kinds of input sequences,
returns a tuple when the argument is a tuple and a string
when the argument is a string).

> On a completely different topic, I don't quite understand why,
> when passed a tuple, map() returns a list and filter() returns
> a tuple.  I was quite surprised that they do different things.

It may violate the principle of least astonishment, particularly
since it doesn't generalize to ALL kinds of sequences, just
tuples and strings (for anything else, filter returns a list).


Alex





From smulloni at smullyan.org  Sat Aug 25 23:03:15 2001
From: smulloni at smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 23:03:15 -0400
Subject: How do I avoid this global SyntaxWarning?
References: <ojg8m9.l9c.ln@127.0.0.1> <mailman.998756857.4503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3d75jbk0c.fsf@smullyan.org>

On a related note, you can get the same error with code like the following 
(which I recently generated via serendipitous stupidity):

def foo():
        global t
        t=whatever()
        # other confusing and ugly things happen, then
        # I accidentally redeclare t as global,
        # and get the same warning
        global t
        # etc

I have no problem with the redeclaration generating a warning,
but the warning message, while accurate (the line t="whatever"
does indeed precede the second global statement) doesn't make obvious
the real problem, which is that there are two global statements.

(Well,  who said that error messages are supposed to indicate what is 
really going on, anyway!  There are too many programmers around anyway
nowadays competing with me for recession jobs -- let's make them even 
more cryptic!)

Jacob Smullyan | smulloni at smullyan.org

-----------------------------------------
Siggy Brentrup <bsb at winnegan.de> writes:

> gradha at iname.com writes:
> 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > Promptly most of my scripts give SyntaxWarnings under Python 2.1.1, and the
> > warning is so strange to me, and doesn't explain anything or point in any
> > direction that I don't know exactly what to do. I've searched the
> > documentation for warning, syntax and global keywords, but I don't seem to
> > find what is making python angry. Here's the example:
> > 
> > #!/usr/bin/env python
> > 
> > expresion_include = "a string"
> > 
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >    global expresion_include
> >    print expresion_include
> > 
> > As said before, versions of Python 2.0 and earlier didn't show this warning.
> > What is it
> 
> SyntaxWarning: name 'expresion_include' is assigned to before global declaration
> 
> Exactly what it says, in line 3 you assigned to expresion_include,
> later in line 6 you declare it global.
> 
> > and how do I make it go away?
> 
> Remove the global statement, at module scope it doesn't make sense.
> 
> 
> Thanks
>   Siggy
> 
> -- 
> Siggy Brentrup - bsb at winnegan.de - http://oss.winnegan.de/
> ****** ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam *******


From tom at alkali.spamfree.org  Mon Aug 13 11:22:18 2001
From: tom at alkali.spamfree.org (Tom Robinson)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:22:18 +0100
Subject: Python equivalent of Archive::Tar?
References: <g5pfntkvaouredpt6bim6uoogncgvlt984@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hqpfntsr435san3dv61u2b93vu861130ha@4ax.com>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:32:40 +0100, Tom Robinson
<tom at alkali.spamfree.org> wrote:

>Is there a python equivalent of this perl module?  I specifically want
>to be able to create a tar file in memory by reading in the files for
>it and then write it out to a web browser.  I've managed to acheive
>this in perl by using Archive::Tar, has anyone written a similar
>library for python?  I had a quick search but "tar" always turns up a
>huge amount of unwanted results. :)

It appears I wasn't looking hard enough, see below.  I've managed to
get tar.py in Zope to work, but it doesn't have the generality of
Archive::Tar obviously.  Maybe I'll use the Zope code as a base for a
python version...

From: Martin von Loewis (loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de)
Subject: Re: creating compressed tarfiles 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Date: 2000/08/23 

>thomas at cintra.no (Tw) writes:
>
>> How can I create compressed tarfiles, ie. lots of files inside a
>> compressed file, using either the tarlib.py or tar.py ( found in Zope
>> ) and gzip and/or zlib? 
>> 
>> I need examples.
>
>Without trying, it appears that Zope's tar.py already handles
>compressed files.
>
>Let names contain a list of all files to add, I'd say the following
>might work:
>
>archive = tar.tgzarchive("foo")
>for n in names:
>  data = open(n).read()
>  archive.add(n, data)
>archive.finish()
>open("foo.tgz").write(archive)
>
>It appears as if this would keep the compressed file in memory,
>though; there is apparently no streaming tar library.
>
>Regards,
>Martin

-- 
tom at alkali.spamfree.org
remove 'spamfree.' to respond


From serge at rohan.sdsu.edu  Mon Aug 20 00:36:43 2001
From: serge at rohan.sdsu.edu (Serge Rey)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:36:43 +1000
Subject: Fun with httpd logs and code red
In-Reply-To: <to13ef3kf4vh17@corp.supernews.com>; from spboulet@speakeasy.net on Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:08:24PM +0228
References: <to13ef3kf4vh17@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010820143643.A2939@typhoon.sdsu.edu>

On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:08:24PM +0228, Stephen Boulet wrote:
> Just for fun, I wrote the following script to check my apache log for 
> recent code red queries:
-snip-  
> Hmmm. I have a list with 873 entries. Now what do I do with it?  ;)

maybe let the sys admins of those hosts now they've been infected?
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/apache/2001/08/16/code_red.html

-- 
Sergio J. Rey	http://typhoon.sdsu.edu/rey.html




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 25 19:01:06 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:01:06 -0400
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com> <slrn9og0jb.1o9.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>
Message-ID: <3B882E32.41643FEB@engcorp.com>

Paul Winkler wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:08:13 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >Maybe more importantly, if you don't actually use TABs,
> >or you consistently treat TABs as eight spaces, the problem
> >won't arise.
> 
> Four spaces is now the "standard" according to PEP 8, replacing the
> old style guide.  http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0008.html
> 
> But then, the style guide says the same thing... How long ago was 8
> considered the norm?

You miss my point.  A TAB is an ASCII character which should be 
treated as causing the current horizontal position to jump to the
next multiple of eight.  (Yes, there is probably no such specific
definition in any ASCII standard, but I'm talking from a practical
sense here.  The vast majority of computer programs and operating
systems treat TAB this way and using them to mean anything else is
just asking for trouble.  Programs which treat them as precisely
eight characters (regardless of their position) are broken.  
Programs which treat them as four characters are dangerous.)

The point is, if you insist on using TABs in your output in order
to save space (an unnecessary endeavour these days), you should
ensure that you treat them according to the proper definition.
Lines indented four characters from the left margin should use
four spaces (not a TAB).  Lines indented eight characters can 
use a single TAB (not two).  Lines indented twelve characters 
should have four spaces and a TAB (not three TABs).  

TABS: just say no...

I agree indentation should definitely be every four characters.  
I don't think I've ever seen real, non-trivial code which was 
indented eight characters, and I would have reindented it if I had.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 23:34:07 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:34:07 GMT
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <cpk807e2pg.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote:
> >     http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
> 
> I thought I had understood it, but still don't see where it mentions
> "x.__class__ = whatever" now being forbidden or restricted?

That one's easy. :-)  Assignment to __class__ is not documented for
classic classes either, so I didn't think it was necessary to mention
it.

> > It would be relatively easy to allow __class__ assignment only if (a)
> > the new class is a subclass of the old class, and (b) the size of the
> > new instance is the same as the old instance.  Would this be sufficient?
> 
> Does 'size' in this context mean 'number of slots'?

Close enough.  In combination with the subclass requirement, the
"equal size" requirement means that the subclass doesn't add any
slots, and that guarantees the safety requirement.

But without the subclass requirement, in order for the __class__
assignment to be safe, things are more difficult.  E.g. a list
instance has two "slots" beyond the basic object header: a size and a
pointer.  Now this class:

  class C(object): __slots__ = ['a', 'b']

also has two slots following the basic object header.  But switching a
C instance to a list or back would be a disaster, because the
interpretation of the slots is different.

> In this case, albeit
> with somewhat peculiar contortions (requiring new.classobj or the
> equivalent), I think it would be sufficient for all cases that come to
> my mind -- I'd just have to put any extra attributes in the __dict__
> (which I do today for *every* attribute anyway:-).

Sorry, I think you're off on the wrong foot there.

> The "generate empty object through __class__ assignment" trick
> would also become sort-of-possible again (although of no practical
> interest whatsoever:-) -- to wit:
> 
> def make_empty_copy(any_object):
>     klass = any_object.__class__
>     class Empty(klass):
>         def __init__(self, *args, **kwds): pass
>     newcopy = Empty()
>     class Full(Empty):
>         __init__ = klass.__init__
>         __name__ = klass.__name__
>     newcopy.__class__ = Full
>     return newcopy
> 
> the Full class is not really the same as any_object.__class__, but
> nobody's gonna find out (presumably) since it's undistinguishable
> under normal use of isinstance or any behavior-test whatsoever
> (or have I forgotten to copy some needed attribute for that?).

I don't think this is a useful kludge.  And how is newcopy going to
acquire all the othe rattributes of any_object.__class__?

> These classes Empty and Full are examples of what I mean above
> as roughly 'equivalent' to new.classobj calls:-).  I think I could
> handle 'real' cases of class-change (worst case) through similar
> means, i.e. generating on the fly a class that's basically what I
> need but formally inherits from the object's original class so it
> can be assigned.  I realize this will not support _deleting_ any
> method wrt the original class, but that's not a need in any case
> that easily comes to mind.

It would be easier to bite the bullet and write the metaclass (in C)
that does the proper safety check.

> Yes, but, when servers DO have to stay up, fixing them on the fly,
> albeit indeed fragile, is a specified constraint.  I guess in some cases
> one could devise alternate strategies: putting up a new fixed server
> process on a different machine, port-redirecting all new requests to
> the new machine, and finally pulling down the old buggy server when
> the conversations for the requests it was serving at fix-time are gone.

I'm assuming you have to plan for this anyway, since you'll need a way
to doctor the server in the first place.  So why not make your
planning easy by having __dynamic__ = 1 somewhere?

> *blink* I had never thought Python's philosophy was protecting
> "typical users" from themselves -- I thought that was the idea
> of Pascal, Modula-2, &c, to Eiffel, the languages that know what's
> good for you better than you know yourself, so they'll force you
> to program the way Wirth (or Meyer) KNOWS is the one right
> way to program.  As I previously read your recent posts, I thought
> that the __dynamic__ thing was about performance instead...?

Here we go again.  I mention one reason and it is assumed that this is
the only reason.  As I've said before, my mind works a lot faster than
my fingers can type (it seems it's the opposite for you :-), and
sometimes the rationalization for an idea comes only gradually.

If you think about it, Python does a lot to protect typical users from
themselves (why otherwise do you think it's gaining success as an
educational language)?  For example, an input line of a million bytes
won't cause a buffer overflow.  For example, arithmetic overflow is
not silently truncated.  For example, almost anything that could cause
a core dump is caught before it does (and we fix the remaining core
dumps in real time :-).  For example, mixing incompatible types in
expressions causes a TypeError rather than having a random undefined
side effect.  For example, using an undefined variable name raises a
NameError rather than silently being equal to zero.  For example, the
whole division thing.  And so on.

> Can we expect variable declarations a few minor releases from
> now, then?  That would presumably be consistent with the new
> focus on protecting typical users from themselves.

I'm presuming you're being sarcastic.  We may indeed see *optional*
variable declarations -- but not required ones.  But realistically,
even the optional declarations seem far away -- the types-sig is only
active for about 6 weeks per year, and most of that time is used
rediscovering where we were a year ago... :-(.

> "Of course" as long as the extra devices don't significantly
> interfere with the tools' previous strengths in terms of cost and
> power.  When the significant interference is there, there is no "of
> course" about it -- it becomes a highly problematical trade-off.

Exactly.  What's going on here is that I'm trying to tease out how far
I should go with the safety device without making the tool unusable.
The new classes in Python 2.2 (which are entirely optional -- by
default you get the same classic classes as in 2.1 and before) are one
step of a new design.  We'll see how it needs to be tweaked.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 10 12:00:04 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:00:04 +0100
Subject: win32 screen captures
References: <5Np$EWAgs5c7EwiQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <3b73ed53.977798@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <G0RgKIAEUAd7Ew$e@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <3b73ed53.977798 at nntp.sprynet.com>, David C. Ullrich
<ullrich at math.okstate.edu> writes
.....
>>Has anyone managed to use PIL and win32com to do screen captures?
>
>Well, I don't know how to do the Windows stuff from PIL or win32com,
>but there's presumably easy ways to do it. If you want a hint what
>Windows stuff to try to do: (i) You create a bitmap (presumably
>this is easy in PIL, whether you can use that might depend
>on whether PIL gives you access to a device context for the
>bitmap). (ii) You get a device context for the screen from
>GetDC(0) (iii) You BitBLT from the screen device context
>to the bitmap's device context. (If this can't be done easily
>using PIL and win32com it can certainly be done using
>whatever.py, that Win32 API module.)
>

yes I'm crawling through C code to do it right now, but I thought
perhaps there were some nice entry points in win32 that might get me the
DC etc etc.

I have also managed to get a PDF App to pop up using COM directly, but
can't seem to get an open document into it, whine

>David C. Ullrich

-- 
Robin Becker


From aahz at panix.com  Thu Aug  2 08:42:16 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 05:42:16 -0700
Subject: Threading question
References: <9k9635$hli$1@news.netmar.com>
Message-ID: <9kbhr8$d7v$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9k9635$hli$1 at news.netmar.com>,  <news at aegis.mailshell.com> wrote:
>In the following code snippet, is the if statement redundant?
>It seems to make no difference whether its there or not.
>
>thread1.start()
>thread2.start()
>thread3.start()
>thread4.start()
>
>if threading.currentThread().getName() == 'MainThread':
>    thread1.join()
>    thread2.join()
>    thread3.join()
>    thread4.join()

Yes, the "if" is redundant.  You might want to use a different method
for synchronizing with the threads, though.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"activist for accuracy"  --SJM


From gbeymk at sgh.com.sg  Fri Aug 24 03:30:18 2001
From: gbeymk at sgh.com.sg (YMK)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:30:18 +0800
Subject: Read a record instead of a line from a file
Message-ID: <3B86028A.9F5F9967@sgh.com.sg>

If I know the "Record Separator" of a flat file, how do I set to read
one record at a time ?


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 24 10:53:53 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:53:53 -0500
Subject: Inconsistency in CGI Documentation????
References: <mailman.998430691.1919.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tocqmo5mogfd3b@corp.supernews.com>

Sam
Thanks for the wealth of information you provided.
"Sam Penrose" <sam at ddmweb.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998430691.1919.python-list at python.org...
[..................]
>This requires (?) wrapping FieldStorage. Chuck Esterbrook did so for
Webware
> in a class called HTTPRequest:
>
<http://webware.sourceforge.net/Webware/WebKit/Docs/Source/Files/HTTPRequest
.py.html>

I had a look at this before.  But since this was my first CGI Python
project, I wanted to be familiar with what came with Python before moving
into investigating other packages.

> I used that as the basis of my own, much simpler (and cruder) wrapper
> class which I am happy to share if anyone wants it.

Can I have a look at it?

> 2) If you think that all of this is an indictment of the current Python
> library, you're right. The BDFL does not seem to agree, however. I spent
> considerable time thinking about writing a replacement for the
> FieldStorage class, but foundered when I realized how little I knew
> about why it used recursive object-birthing to parse MIME headers:
>
>     FieldStorageClass = None
>     def read_multi(self, environ, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing):
>         """Internal: read a part that is itself multipart."""
>         self.list = []
>         klass = self.FieldStorageClass or self.__class__
>         part = klass(self.fp, {}, self.innerboundary,
>                      environ, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing)
>         # Throw first part away
>         while not part.done:
>             headers = rfc822.Message(self.fp)
>             part = klass(self.fp, headers, self.innerboundary,
>                          environ, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing)
>             self.list.append(part)
>         self.skip_lines()
>
> If someone can help me get past that, I might take another whack at it.
> In particular, I'm not sure whether the recursion is important for
> avoiding N^2 worst-case performance, or whether it's just the nifty
> kind of thing you do if you are as smart as Guido.

Well, any takers for these questions?
Maan




From stadt at cs.utwente.nl  Sun Aug 26 17:10:01 2001
From: stadt at cs.utwente.nl (Richard van de Stadt)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:10:01 +0200
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B8965A9.8687AE9C@cs.utwente.nl>

Sheila King wrote:
[...]
> 
> For CGI, I need file locking. The alternatives are (as I understand
> them):
> 
> 1. Have a server running, which controls access to the files, thus
> ensuring that only one process can write to the files at a time.
[...]

I missed the start of this thread, but doesn't then this work for you:

def oneAtTheTime():
	f = posixfile.open (someFilename, 'a')
	f.lock ('w|')
	f.write ('something') # or do something else that no other process may do at this time
	f.lock ('u')
	f.close()

I've been using this for over 5 years. It controls access to a particular
file for a system that collects submissions for conferences, where most
submissions have to be dealt with very close to the deadline. (Designed
in order to deals with multiple webform submissions, it also saved me a
couple of times when a fileserver broke down. The submissions where
simply blocked on the webserver until the fileserver came up again a
few days later :-)

Richard.


From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 20:37:13 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:37:13 +1000
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <01080310085603.14602@ike>
References: <01080310085603.14602@ike>
Message-ID: <01080310371304.14602@ike>

On Friday 03 August 2001 10:08, you wrote:
> So what I need to know is if there is some way to import the instance_home
> package as "instance" rather than as "roundup".

This looks like a lost cause (*). It's just plain too icky :(

Oh well. 


    Richard

* even if I manage to convince the import mechanisms to import /tmp/roundup 
as "instance", there's imports in the /tmp/roundup package "from roundup 
import foo" which are always going to break. Ho hum.



From anamax at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 10 12:15:32 2001
From: anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:15:32 -0700
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <8bbd9ac3.0108100815.77884faf@posting.google.com>

Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<997418262.593664 at yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>...
> Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
> | Now, I haven't accounted for the time to find that 20%, but I'm
> | ahead 4 to 10, so I'm somewhat skeptical that it would be generally
> | faster to have written it in C from the beginning.
> 
> You aren't accounting for the trouble of managing a program that
> now has both Python's and C's problems - it's platform dependent
> object code, and at the same time it needs an interpreter.  And
> note that your C extension requires extra work and some special
> skills to write.  Factoring out your 20% may not be as easy as
> you hope.

The "managing trouble" is largely a fixed cost, so if it's small
enough, I can ignore it.

> But anyway, did I say you should write the whole thing in C?
> I should bite my tongue, but actually I did not say that.
> I stay away from C when I can, and you should too.  I only
> said "a faster language".

Well, if we're restricting ourselves to statically typed mainstream
languages, they're all basically C for the purposes of this discussion.
If we allow other dynamically typed languages, then we've strayed from
the "we need typing for speed" argument.  (I find that lisp is faster,
and the development time is comparable, but extending and embedding
isn't as reasonable.)

Or, are we comparing Python to an non-existent language?  I don't think
that python is the best possible language (and there are applications
where there are better languages), but I can't use languages that don't
exist for my applications.

> |> The moral is not that you should be using C instead, but that
> |> Python should be faster.
> |
> | At what cost?  Be explicit - what would you change, and what would the
> | other side effects of those changes be?
> 
> Well, that's a good question.  Do we agree that it's worth the trouble
> to sort that stuff out, or does Moore's law make such things recede in
> importance faster than anyone can address them?

It doesn't make sense to answer the latter question in the abstract.  Some
stuff is probably worth sorting out.  Some stuff probably isn't.  And
in some cases, we won't know until we do it.

That's why I asked my question.  I'm perfectly happy with the idea that
there are worthwhile changes, but that's not a useful fact.  The useful
issue is what specific changes are worthwhile, in particular, what are
their specific costs and benefits.

> We got here talking about static type checking, and there is some reason
> to think that could open up some opportunities for optimization.

The notion that static type checking can improve performance is not
at issue.  The question is whether the costs of static type checking
are worth that performance.  Also, remember that stalin shows that
static type inference can bring many of the performance benefits of
static type checking to dynamically typed languages.  Implementing
such inference is largely a globally fixed cost and the benefits will
be received by all applications.  Static typing's costs are incurred
by all applications.

I'll suggest a middle ground that might work.  Declaring variables
but not their types might make python a lot more tractable.  (However,
the recent static scoping changes may may provide the same benefits
given reasonable analysis that isn't yet done.)  The interesting question
comes with methods.  In particular, are there reasonable constraints
on setattr and some of the other introspective functionality.

> That's all true, but what I want you to recognize is that these are
> the moving target that software has to meet.  As the capability
> expands, so do the expectations, and if your software is slower
> than its competitors, that hurts.

MY expectations haven't changed - I'm just getting more of them
satisfied.

I periodically inventory the applications that I rely on, and
performance is rarely a signficant factor.  Yes, I'd be happier if
Oracle was 2x faster, but I'm not willing to give up much for that.
Emacs is fast enough, as are word, excel, quicken, and my mail
readers and browsers.  (My connection isn't fast enough, but ....)

I see the same thing in business applications.  (One of the surprising
things that I learned a couple of years ago was that EDA folk won't
change the way that they work for a 100x run-time improvement, even
if the change also reduces development time.  Yet, they spend lots of
money on performance.)

So, how many of YOUR applications would be significantly improved
if they were 2x faster?  Be specific?  What would you give up for
that speed?

Yes, I know that benchmarks on 3d cards affect sales.  However, I'd
note that even insignificant differences on those benchmarks drive
those sales, so at least some of the effect is due to perception,
not performance.

-andy


From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 06:04:51 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:04:51 +0200
Subject: help me
References: <a74b343d.0108302126.6259bd24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mnng402a5q@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Du Wellsun" <ws at dohao.org> wrote in message
news:a74b343d.0108302126.6259bd24 at posting.google.com...
> hi,
>   I'm a big new fan of python. I want to be a master in python. I've
> read two books,such as Learning Python and Python Developer's
> Handbook. Could anybody tell me where I can find example source code
> on large project ?

O'Reilly's "Programming Python" 2nd edition, by Lutz, is in good
part dedicated to just that.  There's a lot of largish projects
on the "Vauts of Parnassus", http://www.vex.net/parnassus/.

For even larger projects, I guess the Zope sources are a good bet.


> and UML Tools to do with python.

Sorry, I'll pass on this one.

> or better example
> code tips . Thanks a lot. I like python.

Lots of examples/tips (besides Parnassus) at:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/199/
http://home.jam.rr.com/mspiggie/
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_python/t1.html
and no doubts lots of other places.


>   I hava a dream ,I want to make python's interactive modle replace my
> operating system. Every task finished by python. Can it come true ?

Unlikely -- device drivers, etc, etc, it would be a *VERY* long
and hard work to recode them all in Python!  It's far easier to
have Python replace the *interactive text shell* of your operating
system, e.g. have a look at Maurer's PDOS for a start to that
on Dos-like or Windows-like operating systems (it WOULD be a
fun project to evolve that into a full-fledged shell for Unix-
like operating systems, Cygwin on Windows, etc:-).

>   I also want to make friends with everybody here.

You got a good start:-).

>   I don't like Java , Perl , Php and VB, they make me tired much more,
> though advantages.

Yep -- they do have some advantages in many deployment scenarios
(Java for applets that need to run on old cranky JVM's and so can't
use Jython, Perl for CPAN, PHP when you need HTML-embedded code to
run on the webserver of some idiot ISP who won't install a Python
solution for you, VB when you need to write macros for MS Word and
ship them off to customers who lack Python -- main examples), but
they're definitely tiresome to work with when the Python enthusiasm
starts to fire up:-).  And you haven't even mentioned Javascript
(when your code behind dynamic HTML needs to run on any old
browser), which I personally find "tiresomest":-).


Alex





From maxm at normik.dk  Thu Aug 23 10:29:07 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:29:07 +0200
Subject: zero padded string
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197DFF@exchange>

What is the simplest way to make a zero padded string usable for
alphabetically sorting?

This does it.

number="42"
print (8*'0')[:-len(number)] + number
>> 00000042

But my guess is that there is a builtin c-formatting that does it shorter.
I'll be damned if I know what it is!

There will allways be the same number of zeroes.

regards Max 

                         - N?rg?rd Mikkelsen a/s -
             www.normik.dk - Vandv?rksvej 18 - DK 5000 Odense C
               Tlf (+45) 66 14 14 80 - Fax (+45) 66 14 19 43
                     Max M - Direkte (+45) 63 14 47 15
               



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Aug 29 20:35:50 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:35:50 -0400
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
References: <mailman.999117450.23681.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ulmk2gza1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes:

> Unfortunately I have even more pragmatic a reason for doing it in C than
> speed; I get the char** for a library written in C, and some days it's just
> NOT worth using the struct module.

I'm not sure struct would help with a char ** anyway, unless you're
saying that the pointers themselves reference data within the same
contiguous block of memory somehow.

But given that the char ** exists within your module, you could
consider just writing a tiny (simpler) function to take the char **
and directly translate it into a tuple of strings (a single
PyTuple_New and a loop with PyString_FromString), and then let any
further parsing take place at the Python level.

That way you'd get the benefit of the basic required conversion to
Python data types, but wouldn't encode into the C module any further
parsing requirements or dependencies.  Sometimes it's as important to
decide just how much to move to an extension (where to draw the
interface line) as whether to do any work in an extension at all.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From runyaga at thisbox.com  Tue Aug  7 17:28:09 2001
From: runyaga at thisbox.com (alan runyan)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:28:09 GMT
Subject: Zope python paths
References: <0q4MdKA6m+b7Ewpm@jessikat.demon.co.uk><9kotiu$265g$1@norfair.nerim.net> <Al0xeVAVVBc7EwHr@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <9kp6hi$2b34$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <J3Zb7.46108$g_3.6698450@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

> > Seems to me like an official 'install' should take care
> > to eliminate initial paths which aren't below sw_home\bin.
>
> Or provide easy alternate setups (one more option for Z2.py) or config
file
> for Z2.py.

a config file would be very nice, I dont like all the ENVIRONMENT_VARIABLES_
ZOPE is starting to use.  granted the average person need not know about
them, it would be nice to have a config file that centralized all of this.
I dont really know of a good place where any/all are defined at the moment.

~runyaga





From jgitomer at erols.com  Sun Aug 26 23:16:48 2001
From: jgitomer at erols.com (Jerry Gitomer)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:16:48 -0400
Subject: bsddb for simple database [very basic]
References: <slrn9oit5s.b5f.arturs@aph.waw.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <9mcdv5$2n6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Artur Skura wrote:

> I need very simple database functionality for a weblog.
> 
> (Most things generally available are very heavy, require
> Potgres/MySQL/PHP/whatever - this one will be just a little
> boa+a couple of cgi scripts, very flexible and easy to
> maintain).
> 
> I thought about using one of the standard db modules, like
> bsddb. (First thing i have found is that documentation is quite
> scarce. I've seen some examples of using marshal with bsddb,
> but this seems like too much now.)
> 
> I need to set up a simple database:
> 
> * key
> * name
> * date
> * comment
> 
> What is the simplest way to do that?
> 
> If I do
> 
> mydb["0"] = "foo"
> 
> etc, I will just have standard dictionary pairs, with strings.
> I need records. How do I do that?
> 
> Is there a document describing bsddb Python interface in more
> detail than the few words in the documentation?
> 
> Regards,
> Artur

        An alternative that you should consider is gadfly.  It is a 
fairly complete subset of the 92 ANSI SQL RDBMS standard with a 
Python interface.  If you are familiar with any SQL database you 
will be comfortable with gadfly.

-- 
Jerry Gitomer
Once I learned how to spell DBA, I became one 


From russell_turpin at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 20:50:24 2001
From: russell_turpin at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 17:50:24 -0700
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com> <slrn.pl.9o8cfs.2om.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <8a12e538.0108230607.30481024@posting.google.com> <9m34eb029s8@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <8a12e538.0108231650.1c6633e1@posting.google.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<9m34eb029s8 at enews4.newsguy.com>...
> Must be a pretty bad cold, Russell, or very interesting
> medicine indeed:-).

What can I say except "Doh!"  Or maybe:

    while zonked:
        print "Doh!"
        slap(forehead)
        # That hurts

I hate it when I botch the example I'm using to ask a 
question.  It's not a cold, fortunately. Just ragweed. I
seem to be better now, except for a sore forehead.

Russell


From mike-list at wakerly.com  Sat Aug 18 21:33:37 2001
From: mike-list at wakerly.com (mike wakerly)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:33:37 -0700
Subject: Function call performance timer
In-Reply-To: <200108190109.VAA19571@rodney.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <200108190133.VAA01727@renown.cnchost.com>

Nevermind! Found the profile module, whoops...

Cheers,
Mike

On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 06:10 PM, mike wakerly wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> I've written a driver for a serial port LCD in Python. Trouble is, 
> somewhere along the way, I introduced something (either in the driver 
> or the front-end) that degrades performance significantly. (I can tell 
> because display updates are latent.)
>
> So, can anyone point me to some module that will let me run my program, 
> and then just print perhaps, a tree of function call execution time? 
> I'd like to know which function (I'm calling quite a few with 
> recursion) is causing this bottleneck.
>
> Best solution I can think of is extending pdb somehow, but I'm thinking 
> surely someone has been curious about this before, probably a solution 
> out there...?
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
> PS: with regards to my previous query regarding threads not responding 
> to events, the problem was my own error... a stray fork(), causing the 
> forked process to not respond to the parent's modifications to events. 
> oops!
>
> -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



From markus at schabi.de  Mon Aug 27 17:58:13 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:58:13 +0200
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <3B8A970B.FEBA62DB@home.net>
Message-ID: <1485121.XDDq0ZmV6g@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Chris Barker <chrishbarker at home.net> schrub:

>>>> [l[i] for i in range(len(l)) if (i in indexes)]

Why not [l[i] for i in indexes] ?


markus
-- 
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of 
each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty 
bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights 
secure." -- Albert Einstein


From sill at optonline.net  Thu Aug 23 01:07:12 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:07:12 GMT
Subject: IRC Client : Where to begin
References: <sdVg7.14129$V7.421320@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9o93kv.o2l.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:16:49 -0400, Relfx <relfx at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Python Community,
> 
>                                          I would like for someone to help me
> a little with my irc client project. People have told me a few times that I
> should try studying up on using sockets, asynchat and asynchronous module. I
> have done some looking into all of these. The one thing that bothers me is
> where should I begin? I have tried reaching other irc client owners but that
> proved to be a loss. this is why I would really appreciate it if someone
> would be nice enough to help understand what all is need for the connection
> to the various irc servers and the implementation of the irc commands.

[snip]

Start by

1. Get irc RFC at http://www.efnet.org/docs/efnetfaq.html
2. Read it.
3. Understand it.
4. See example of a small irc bot - silmarill.org/fortuneBot/
5. Make a bot yourself, implementing all irc commands you want.
6. Learn Tkinter - read tkinter python.org tutorial chapter, other online
tutorials and if you still don't understand it, buy a book on it (e.g.
programming python by mark lutz has a chapter on that).
7. Write the client using Tkinter and plain sockets.

OR

7. if you don't like Tkinter looks (I personally don't), get wxPython and
read tutorial(s) on it, look at demos', examples, etc. It's more complex
thank tkinter, but looks better.


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: cy.silmarill.org


From relfx at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  8 22:04:10 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:04:10 -0400
Subject: Creating Irc Client 
Message-ID: <I8mc7.5005$Ke7.326747@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I am trying to find as much information as poossible right now so i can
build a python irc client what should be created first the interface? Or
should all the programming be done first.

 relfx





From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 26 13:30:57 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:30:57 -0500
Subject: get mac/ physical address of network card with python
In-Reply-To: <slrn9oiaau.jv.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
References: <mailman.998838460.15310.python-list@python.org>
        <slrn9oiaau.jv.grante@tuxtop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <15241.12881.616605.226085@beluga.mojam.com>

    Grant> Well, this works under Linux (but I don't think many other
    Grant> systems support raw sockets):

    Grant>   s = socket.socket(socket.AF_PACKET,socket.SOCK_RAW)
    Grant>   s.bind(("eth0",9999))
    Grant>   mac = s.getsockname()[-1]
  
    Grant>   print ":".join(["%02x" % ord(x) for x in mac])

And you have to be root... ;-)

Skip



From mikko.huhtala at abo.fi  Sat Aug 25 15:04:03 2001
From: mikko.huhtala at abo.fi (Mikko Huhtala)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:04:03 -0700
Subject: Running Python on a MOSIX cluster
Message-ID: <87e9cb21.0108251104.7d3b530d@posting.google.com>

I am trying to run Python programs on a MOSIX cluster (Linux kernel
2.4.8 + MOSIX 1.2.2). A single Python process runs nicely and finishes
cleanly but if there are more than one Python process launched from
the same shell or from a Python program, all but the one (not
necessarily the one that started first) terminate with a segfault and
core dump. The output from the segfaulted processes is not complete.

I tried RPM packaged Pythons 1.5.2 and 2.1.1 as well as 2.1.1 compiled
from source on the MOSIX cluster. The result was the same with all of
them.

I am not very familiar with the inner workings of either Python or
MOSIX. Does the Python interpreter make a full copy of itself for each
Python process? For some reason concurrent Python processes do not
like each other on a MOSIX kernel.


Mikko Huhtala


From olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com  Wed Aug 15 03:11:22 2001
From: olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com (Olivier Scalbert)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:11:22 +0200
Subject: spawnv
References: <mailman.997849463.4940.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7A209A.C08B6B67@algosyn.com>

brueckd at tbye.com wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Olivier Scalbert wrote:
>
> > On my Linux box, the following code does not start /usr/bin/gears:
> >
> > import os
> > print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ())
> >
> > In fact it print 127 !
> >
> > but the following code starts /usr/bin/gears :
> >
> > import os
> > os.system("/usr/bin/gears")
> >
> > Why ?
>
> Hi Olivier,
> The arguments you pass to the child process are C-style arguments, so the
> first one needs to be the program name. Also, spawnv takes a list of
> arguments to pass, so what you really want is:
>
> print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/gears', ['gears'])
>
> So if you wanted to pass an argument to gears then your list would
> look like:
>
> ['gears',<your arg here>,...]
>
> Another way is to use spawnl; you pass in a variable number of
> arguments:
>
> print os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/gears', 'gears', ...other args...)
>
> Note that the spawn functions return the process ID of the child process,
> unless you use P_WAIT, in which case they return the return code of the
> child process once it finally exits.
>
> -Dave

Thanks, it works !

olivier



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Aug 30 12:20:56 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:20:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
In-Reply-To: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108301156480.271-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Gerson Kurz wrote:

> There might be a slight ambiguity when function names are used without
> arguments, because it then could be interpreted as either the function
> object or the function call; but then again, I see writing the
> function name as object without assigning it to some variable or some
> such as rather pointless. 


A *SLIGHT* ambiguity ! 

It's extremely ambiguous. 

What does:
	"e1 e2 e3 e4 e5" 
mean when more than one of those e's is a function ? 
Can you tell which ones represent function calls if you don't
know the value of all of the e's ? 


Does function call bind more or less tighly than other operators like  "+" ? 
i.e. does:
	  f1 a + b 
mean f1( a+b) or f1(a) + b ?

And, since in Python, any variable name can be bound to a function,
and all names are dynamic, can you come up with an operator precedence 
that isn't context dependent ? i.e. does the binding and order of
evaluation of "e1 e2 e3 e4 e5" change depending on the value of the e's ? 


One of my complaints against Lisp syntax was that it didn't make 
different things -- function calls and control syntax of FEXPR's 
look different, so the general structure and flow of a program 
text wasn't obvious if you didn't know what all the words meant. 
But at least Lisp keeps the parenthesis to maintain some structure.

Forth, like a reverse Polish calculator, doesn't need parends around
function args, but that's because almost every token is a verb that
does something right away -- the exception being that some verbs 
"eat up" other tokens up to some delimiter and use them as names or
strings. 

Haskell manages to skip the parends by making function call bind
very tightly -- and since it's a highly functional language, it
can consider functions of multiple args as a series of curried
functions of a single arg, so there's no ambiguity. 

I can't think of a way to make it work in Python! 

-- Steve Majewski





From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Wed Aug  8 10:28:43 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:28:43 +0100
Subject: namespace confusion
References: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk> <Xns90F790619A58duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3B714C9B.1030904@herts.ac.uk>

Sorry, I didn't make that a very good example. I was really just trying 
to show the structure so you could see that I couldn't access the 
functions from one module, called by a function in a module other than 
__main__. Sloppy, sorry. Nevertheless, swapping

import

for my

from 'whatever' import *

solves my problem. I was just being lazy and trying to avoid typing the 
module names each time I called one of their functions

thanks
blobby

Duncan Booth wrote:


 > The example you posted has several mistakes, so it isn't immediately 
clear
 > which are mistyping and which might be your actual problem.


 > But I think the real problem is that you are using 'from module 
import *'.
 > This form of the import statement makes a copy of all the variables that
 > exist in another module at the time when the import is executed. This is
 > very rarely what you want. It is almost always better to just import the
 > module and access the values when you need them. So second.py becomes:
 >
 > import first
 >
 > def functSecond():
 > first.functfirst() #
 >
 > and provided you actually define the function in first this call should
 > work.




From thomas at gatsoft.no  Fri Aug  3 06:12:23 2001
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:12:23 GMT
Subject: Is 4Suites xml-parser slow??? (or am i parsing in the wrong way??)
References: <dd144f8b.0107300137.76f7f931@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bOua7.757$bXi.180573184@news.telia.no>

Hi,

A little late, but here it goes:

I tried to use tools from 4Suite some time ago and found them way too slow.
I was using it for XSLT though. It's a good project and the developers
contribute lots to the community, but for my project I switched to Sablotron
and PySablot or Sab-Py ( Can't remember which). That increased the speed
alot. 4Suite is AFAIK pure python so it's probably alwasy going to be slower
than a parser implemented in C/C++.

You can use expat directly, that would increase your parsing a great deal.
See the docs for tips.

Thomas



"teo" <teo at crepido.com> wrote in message
news:dd144f8b.0107300137.76f7f931 at posting.google.com...
> Hi all!
> I wonder if some of you have had problems (not really a problem, but
> it takes long time to parse) with xml.dom.ext.Sax2.FromXmlStream ?
> I feed the parser with an wellformed xml-file at 50k, and it takes
> 6.93 - 7.5 seconds to parse.
>
> btw, I'm running my app on an AMD-Athlon 850 Mhz Mandrake-linux PC
>
> the code in my app is:
> -------------------------
> Sourcefile = "myxml.xml" # :)
>
> from xml.dom.ext.reader.Sax2 import FromXmlStream
> import timing
>
> print "Parse!!"
> timing.start()
> dom = FromXmlStream(Sourcefile)
> timing.finish()
> print "Parsing XML into DOM took" +str(timing.milli()/1000.00000001)+"
> seconds..."
>
> -------------------------
>
> Thanks for taking your time ;)
>
> /teodor




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 31 12:46:50 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:46:50 -0500
Subject: Python descendant to Perl?
In-Reply-To: <4e2ddb70.0108310753.57cb4b49@posting.google.com>
References: <4e2ddb70.0108310753.57cb4b49@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15247.49018.344691.842318@beluga.mojam.com>

    Jonas> Is Python a descendant to Perl? I thought it was the other way
    Jonas> around.  http://www.clug.org/presentations/oodemo/oofamily.html

As far as OO features, I believe Perl got several ideas from Python.  Perl
has been around a fair bit longer though.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From thomas at gatsoft.no  Tue Aug  7 06:54:34 2001
From: thomas at gatsoft.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:54:34 GMT
Subject: dynamic import/reload of modules
Message-ID: <KNPb7.96$y9k.170737664@news.telia.no>

Say I got a folder-structure like this :

/home/thomas/dev/modules/test1
/home/thomas/dev/modules/test2

they both contain two files:
__init__.py
handler.py

The handler.py contains a class handlerclass, that's different for each of
the handler files

How can I import the handler.py module for each folder, be able to reload it
and create object-instances from them?
I want to be able to say 'mymodules.reload()' and reload them too.

The point is to be able to easily create and import several modules into a
server without stopping the server itself. I want to be able to create a
folder in the /home/thomas/dev/modules-folder, put to files into it, call
reload on the server and have the modules available inside the running
server. I cannot know what the folder inside /home/thomas/dev/modules will
be called, but it will contain a handler.py defining a handlerclass-object
and a __init__.py ( if that's necessary ).

Any clues or pointers?

It's for use in medusa. I want to be able to dynamically define handlers
that processes requests, and reload them.

Thomas




From wall at adinet.com.uy  Wed Aug  1 21:08:46 2001
From: wall at adinet.com.uy (Walter Moreira)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:08:46 -0300
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>; from tanzer@swing.co.at on Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:25:29PM +0200
References: <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <m15RyoL-000wcEC@swing.co.at>
Message-ID: <20010801220846.B14812@casa.parque>

On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:25:29PM +0200, Christian Tanzer wrote:
> I'm glad that nobody proposed `class_` yet :-)
> 
> As the first argument can immediately signify a class method if the
> same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an uncontentious
> name popped up. 

What about 'clss' ?, pretty close to class

     -- Walter

-- 
--------------
Walter Moreira   <>  Centro de Matematica  <>  Universidad de la Republica
email: walterm at cmat.edu.uy  <>  Home Page: http://www.cmat.edu.uy/~walterm
                 +--------------------------------------------------------
        /OD\_    |   hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
 O o . |_o_o_)   |   145. You e-mail your boss, informing him you'll be
                 |        late.
               --+--



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 16 15:03:57 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:03:57 -0500
Subject: Python Path Blues
References: <tnnq6o9t2t565a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tno6ar60c2c43c@corp.supernews.com>

Issue resolved.
Although the search path is set in the windows NT registry, I discovered
that it was not set in:  My Computer ..... Properties .... Environment.
I truly thought that the registry was enough, but apparently it is not.
Having set the PYTHONPATH in the environment the problem was resolved.
Strange:  What is the point of the registry then?
Maan

"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:tnnq6o9t2t565a at corp.supernews.com...
> I am running into a very frustrating problem.
> I have Python 2.1 (NOT 2.1.1) on Win NT.  I recently installed DCOracle2
for
> WIN NT to connect to an ORacle 8 database on a Solaris machine.
> I ran the install for DCOracle2.  It copied the correct pyd (dco2.pyd)
into
> the directory c:\python\Dco2\DCOracle2
> So, in this directory I have now:  DCOracle2.py, DCOracle2.pyc, and
dco2.pyd
>
> Then I added this path into the string of library Python paths ( I am
using
> Python 2.1 because the binary of DCOracle2 comes readily compiled for
Python
> 2.1 and will not work with Python 2.1.1).
>
> When I type
> import DCOracle2
> in the interactive shell, I get the error message:
>
> >>> import DCOracle2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in ?
>     import DCOracle2
> ImportError: No module named DCOracle2
>
> What gives?  Why am I getting an ImportError if DCOracle2 is in the lib
> path?
> Maan
>
>




From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug  5 12:06:23 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 16:06:23 GMT
Subject: strange list behaviour in 2.1.1
References: <b9ae8e0f.0108050713.16408c16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3aeb7.73091$EP6.17168518@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Adrian Smith" <adrian_p_smith at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b9ae8e0f.0108050713.16408c16 at posting.google.com...
> There is a mysterious thing. I wish to take a string from the end of
> one list to the beginning of another, as one might. If I do it
> interactively by hand, with two lists called 'first' and 'second':
>
> >>> second = [first[-1]] + second

You are unbinding 'second' from the original list and rebinding it to
a *new* list generated by the list expression.  To do what you
apparently want
second.insert(0,first[-1]) # insert item at front of existing list
Note: time go as len(second)

> >>> del first[-1]
>
> ...it works fine, but if I put it in a procedure, and call it with
the
> parameters 'first' and 'second':
>
> def overflow(firstlist, secondlist):
>     secondlist = [firstlist[-1]] + secondlist

Local name 'secondlist' gets rebound, but this has no effect on
outside world
Use insert method to change outside-world list

>     del firstlist[-1]
>
> ...the last element of 'first' gets deleted, but 'second' remains
> unaltered. Is there some strange aspect of list assignment I'm
> overlooking here?

No, just normal name-binding rules.

Terry J. Reedy






From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 13:51:36 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:51:36 -0400
Subject: Adding Comments when checking in from VSS in Pythonwin
References: <8q8j7.70054$54.3713716@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3b8d1dd4.1875843@news.t-online.de> <wf9j7.71171$54.3740007@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3b8d283e.4541968@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <%U9j7.188863$rV6.9122901@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Gerson Kurz" <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3b8d283e.4541968 at news.t-online.de...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:05:58 -0400, "Steve Holden"
> <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
> >Now I can use the recently-posted checkin modification too. Just need to
> >work out how to get VSS to ask for a checkin comment. Or have Pythonwin
do
> >it and pass it through...
>
> In the patch, look at the line
>
> item.Checkin(None, fileName)
>
> "None" is the comment...
>
Thanks, I'd already browsed through the COM structures and found that out.
It's the business of creating a dialog & driving it I don't have time for
right now. Even without comments the checkin feature is pretty good, though.
What I haven't found is a way to access the VSS dialog that asks for details
on the single-file checkin. I guess we're too far down the road to use that
easily.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 16:51:44 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:51:44 -0700
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
References: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com> <aCCa7.66499$EP6.15351473@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B0EE0.C341C825@ActiveState.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> It should be quite safe to *look* at the file with WinZip's ascii
> viewer or with notepad.
> Or use Python to read and display.

Here's what it looks like on my computer (i.e. nonviral!):

@echo off

rem Batch file for locating and executing SWIG.
rem SWIG binaries are kept under source control,
rem so this batch file should find that version.

if "%SWIG_EXE%==" goto not_set
if not exist %SWIG_EXE% goto not_set

echo NOTE: The build process has changed (hopefully for the better!)
echo You can remove your old SWIG install, and the %SWIG_EXE% 
echo environment variable.  All of SWIG is now kept under CVS,
echo and this version will be used if %%SWIG_EXE%% is not set.
goto set 

:not_set
if not exist ..\swig\swig.exe goto not_found
rem Pull a trick to convert the path to a full path.
for %%I in (..\swig\swig.exe) do set SWIG_EXE=%%~fI
for /D %%I in (..\swig\swig_lib) do set SWIG_LIB=%%~fI

:set
cd %1
%SWIG_EXE% %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9
goto xit

:not_found
echo *** Can not find SWIG.
echo *** Please see "swig.bat" for how we attempt to locate SWIG.
goto xit

:xit

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From surial at crosswinds.net  Fri Aug 10 20:04:50 2001
From: surial at crosswinds.net (Surial)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 02:04:50 +0200
Subject: question about Sandboxing.
Message-ID: <MPG.15de73c8adce39f2989690@rider>

In java, you have 2 features which AFAIK are not available in Python, 
which I always assumed to be required for sandboxing:

'final':

If you can't mark things as final, you can subclass a class, pass it
to an 'internal' method, and so trick internal classes is giving
you sensitive information. Imagine, if you could take java's
String class and subclass it.

(you can't; the entire string class
is marked 'final'). You can then make a mutable subclass of
String (java's String is immutable, meaning that after construction
of a String object it cannot change. there is no such thing as
string.setValue("new value"). You'll have to make a new string
if you want to do that.)

So, you pass an instance of your special MutableString to some kind
of internal method that now takes this string and makes sure it's
valid. Since you (the sandboxed application) still have the same
object reference, and it's actually a mutable string, you can now
change the string and the internal method will not be aware of it,
and thus will not perform a validity check.

'private':

take the entire above argument  and adapt it to the fact that
if nothing is truly private, I can change things anyway.
Python's local system (__foobar) actually translates
to __classname_foobar (or so I've read in the python
tutorial), so Joe 'sandboxed' Application can still access
anything.



At least for the private issue I can understand a special
sandboxing application that will disable access to anything
fitting the regexp __.+_.+, but that won't help for
the 'final' issue.



How are these points addressed in RExec? (Python's
sandboxing environment, as I've read).


-- Reinier.



From sassman at nucentrix.net  Thu Aug  9 01:59:58 2001
From: sassman at nucentrix.net (Mark Sass)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:59:58 -0500
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
Message-ID: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net>

Hi all,
    I have a list of strings and the strings are functions that I want to
call on an object.  How do I call the functions without hardcoding the
function call?  Here is an example

funclist = ['func1()', 'func2()', 'func3()']
x = len(funclist)
y = 0
while y < x:
    value = testobj.funclist[y]
    y = y +1

This way I could grow the list of functions to be called without coding more
like the way I am doing it now. I would like to avoid doing the following:

value = testobj.func1()
value = testobj.func2()
value = testobj.func3()

Any help would be great.

Thanks,
    Mark Sass






From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Fri Aug 10 13:17:43 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:17:43 -0700
Subject: namespace confusion
References: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk> <Xns90F790619A58duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <3B714C9B.1030904@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B741737.AAE0E3E1@ccvcorp.com>


Mark Robinson wrote:

> .... Nevertheless, swapping
>
> import
>
> for my
>
> from 'whatever' import *
>
> solves my problem. I was just being lazy and trying to avoid typing the
> module names each time I called one of their functions

You were being seduced by the Dark Side.  :)  Seriously, 'from module import *'
is a *very* dangerous construct, fraught with all manner of ugliness and
complexity.  There are very few cases where that complexity is justified by the
saved typing.  The *only* place where I'd consider using that construct is with
modules which were specifically designed with that usage in mind--Tkinter,
wxPython, etc.  If you really need to save on typing, you can also 'import
somelongmodulename as mod'  (at least in Python 2.x).

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From learnpython at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 18 01:39:17 2001
From: learnpython at hotmail.com (Learn Python)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 05:39:17 +0000
Subject: How to implement C++ equivalent of templates
Message-ID: <F457qIA3EEmYDKFJ2I10000ae49@hotmail.com>

Was trying to write my vector.
Am not able to write a class which encloses a list and control access to the 
list through __setitem__ and __getitem__ because

isinstance() expects a class name as the argument and not a string 
representation of the class. So am not able to verify the actual class name 
@ runtime in the __setitem__ method

i thougt i c'd allow the user to configure the class instances
he wants to hold in the MyVector class __init__.

can someone show tell me how this can be done?

thanks in advance
karthik.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 01:30:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:30:10 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
In-Reply-To: <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELELHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Peter Hansen]
> ...
> Therefore I'll assume you are really just suggesting that
> somebody write a compiler for Python.
>
> This gets suggested frequently, ...

Indeed, by actual count over 10 years, it's suggested 203x more often than
that the world would be a pleasanter place without wars.

at-least-nobody-suggests-the-latter-like-it's-a-new-idea<wink>-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl  Mon Aug  6 13:09:20 2001
From: hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl (A.T.Hofkamp)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:09:20 +0200
Subject: ssh control from Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.996152808.17602.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.996152808.17602.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <200108061709.TAA05501@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>

In comp.lang.python, you wrote:
>I'm trying to control ssh from Python using pty. I have made some progress. 
>For example, if I send the wrong password, I get a message back saying so. 
>However, after sending the correct password, sent commands just get echoed 
>back to me.

Looks like you're trying to solve 2 things here:
1) Convince ssh to work
2) Convince it to exec commands

I'd suggest to first use your own shell program (e.g. /bin/bash) instead of
ssh, to see whether you can get it to execute commands.

Second, why are you trying to feed a password to ssh ?
You can configure ssh such that it does not need a password to log in.


Albert
-- 
Constructing a computer program is like writing a painting



From Armin_member at newsguy.com  Sun Aug 26 13:17:22 2001
From: Armin_member at newsguy.com (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 10:17:22 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 ... stupid error in import.c
References: <9m609h02ca2@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9mbav20t5p@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <9m609h02ca2 at drn.newsguy.com>, Armin says...

To make it clear ... after some repair actions regarding the directory structure
of the source and binary installation, Python 2.1.1 compiles flawless and I have
now a working version 2.1.1 with thread and shared object support for QNX6.
Great!

Good work so far !!!

Armin

>
>
>
>Hi,
> to all who are porting 2.1.1 to a UNIX like system.
>
>I'm porting 2.1.1 to QNX6 and got the situation that the module 'os' could not
>be be found with 'import os'
>
>After some hacking with DDD .. I found out that the pathes used by the search
>algorithm of import.c has nothing to do with the directory structure of the UNIX
>distribution of Python 2.1.1 =:-/
>
>I have installed Python in the root directory and set PYTHONHOME/PYTHONPATH to
>/Python-2.1.1 -> the path to he library modules is then
>
>                     -> /Python-2.1.1/Lib
>
>The search algorithm of import.c is using the following search path sequence:
>
>  "os.so"   -> I don't know why it should make sense to open
>               a shared object with fopen ??
>  "osmodule.so"
>  "os.py"
>  "os.pyc"
>
>  "/Python-2.1.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
>
>  "/Python-2.1.1/lib/python2.1/os.so" ... os.pyc
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ who got the idea that this is part of the 
>                                UNIX distribution ??
>
> Is the version 2.1.1 released or is it escaped :)
>
>Armin
>



From lhulbert at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 26 00:20:48 2001
From: lhulbert at hotmail.com (Lee Hulbert)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 21:20:48 -0700
Subject: Text Formating in Python
Message-ID: <1cdcc92f.0108252020.20aaa02e@posting.google.com>

Is there a simple way to format a text string before printing to the
screen?

Specifically, I have a list of 80 numbers, and I want to print the
list, with each number a different color if it is positive, negative,
or 0.

Thank You,

Lee


From johan at johanjonkers.com  Wed Aug  8 05:44:13 2001
From: johan at johanjonkers.com (Johan)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:44:13 +0200
Subject: builtin functions
Message-ID: <9kr1hl$bgg$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>

hi.

I'm having a small problem at the moment with a program in python I'm 
working on. 
The problem is that I seem to loose access to the builtin functions when I 
try to call them inside a method of a class. 

What should be:
  attr_type = type(builder.current, attr)
now has to be:
  attr_type = str(__builtins__['type'](getattr(builder.current, attr)))

Does anyone know why I loose direct access to the builtin functions? am I 
doing something wrong?

Regards,
Johan Jonkers


From dcinege at psychosis.com  Fri Aug 24 23:53:04 2001
From: dcinege at psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:53:04 -0400
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242315560.11029-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <3B872120.656C698E@psychosis.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Dave Cinege wrote:
> 
> > keywords: modify argv change process listing argv[0] ps output
> >
> > This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
> > As you might have guessed this allows one to change to absolute
> > argv values of the python process itself. (It is of great wonder
> > to me why this functionality is not already available...)
> 
> Instead of making a whole new function for this, why not add write capability
> to sys.argv?

Why I didn't do this:

1) From what I've looked at, the current sys code would change
dramatically as it's already dealing in copies of argv initialized
at python startup, and not by accessing  Py_GetArgcArgv() dynamically.
What I did is less intrusive and portable outside of sys.

2) Even though one clears the absolute argv, you probably still want
it's values available internally. Thus clearing the sys.argv copies
adds a layer of complexity that is really unneeded and probably undesirable.

3) It's not yet exactly clear (to me) to what extent you can alter argv
and not impeed portability. This is probably reason enough to segregate this
functionality. (On linux it stacks argv elements concurrently in memory and
it's safe to use that total space anyway you want. Who knows
how other OS's deal with it...)

4) sys.argv[0] == argv[1]. How do we get to the real argv[0] in a
sane way? sys.argv[-1] Might break old code as the current implementation
ignores negatives and uses absolute values. Also making process
listing follow sys.agrv assignment might break old code. And then
we have to deal with the lengths of the orginial argv elements again...


This is the first time I've ever even looked at the python source,
and am hardly close to being a python guru myself. There might be
a better solution then what I've done, though I've tried to put a bit
of thought into it. At least this patch is usable by people
now and will hopefully lead to SOME sort of standard argv modification
support in the near future.

Dave



From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Mon Aug 27 17:29:03 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 21:29:03 GMT
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com> <3d7957d4.0108270931.4024c505@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9mee2v$ta$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Justin Doak <jdoak at lanl.gov> wrote:
> I am not interested in a full-blown IDE, but rather in a GUI builder
> for Python. (Of course, if I get a good GUI builder with an IDE, then
> I'd consider using an IDE.) Specifically, the GUI builder should be
> cross-platform (i.e., the code it generates should work on Windows and
> Linux at least) and an open source tool is preferable to a commercial
> one for cost reasons. Using Tkinter seems to be the default way of
> getting cross-platform GUIs with Python, but this involves writing
> relatively low-level GUI code that I'd prefer to avoid. If anyone has
> any thoughts on this matter, I'd love to hear them.

> JD

> p.s. I sort of use an IDE right now with python-mode in xemacs. 

Qt Designer is GPL - the xml files it generates can be compiled to Python
code that executes both on Windows (using PyQt and the non-commercial
version of Qt) and on Linux (using GPL Qt and PyQt), so that should fit
the requirement of open-source. There will be a similarly non-commercial
version of Qt for OS X - and then your Python program will run on a Mac,
too.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org 


From k98jh01 at kzoo.edu  Thu Aug 16 16:20:14 2001
From: k98jh01 at kzoo.edu (Bignose3)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 13:20:14 -0700
Subject: simple question
Message-ID: <b740d7ae.0108161220.22ab0377@posting.google.com>

I am a student starting to learn python coming from a C++ background.
I am writing a simple simulation program were I am trying to assign
each "swimmer" an ID.  Unfortunatley the way I would do it in C++
doesnt work for python.  Can someone guide me in the right direction.

Here is the code that doesnt work, see what I am trying to do:

nextID= 0
class swimmer:
    def __init__(self, xpos, ypos):
        self.ID = nextID
        nextID= nextID + 1
        self.xpos= xpos
        self.ypos= ypos
    def xcord(self):
        print self.xpos
    def ycord(self):
        return self.ypos
    def swimmerID(self):
        return self.ID

An explanation would be great to.  Not a complex program but you have
to start somewhere:)

Joe


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 23 09:44:58 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:44:58 -0500
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com> <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <to7dejr8jk4e87@corp.supernews.com> <FSWg7.1085$54.66815@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3B848DEC.386015D3@theworld.com>
Message-ID: <toa29fnj9ueqd0@corp.supernews.com>

David
Sorry I managed to confuse the issues by replying to Steve.  Let me clarify
here:
1.  Steve is correct on the issue of JAVA.  In order to run Python on the
browser side you need to have a plugin installed on your clients' machines.
However you can use Jython that allows you to use Python on top of the Java
VM which will allow you to produce 100% JAVA code from the Python code you
write in the Jython environment.  So we are back to JAVA through Python code
written in Jython.
check  www.python.org for information on this and any useful links.
2.  I believe I misunderstood the reply due to the use of the term
ActiveScripting - which is associated with the use of Python as an ActiveX
Scripting language.  Instead of running Python on the client machine, you
can run it on the server side and use Active Server Pages (ASP).  In order
to be able to do that, you have to install the ActiveX Python Scripting
engine.  In this way, the clients do not have to have Python or a Python
plugin installed on their PC's.  This engine needs a Windows environment by
the way.  For this check the Active State Python distribution:
www.activestate.com    Python (ActivePython) section for windows.
This will install the whole thing ('regular' Python and all win32
extensions); OR
if you have python installed then you can install the win32all extensions
separately.  Check www.python.org
3.  In order to execute Python byte code on a client machine you need a
browser or a plugin that understands this.  I, personally, am not aware of
any Python plugins in order to do that.  Please note, that in this case you
need the plugin to be installed on all client machines that needs to run the
Python byte code.
Maan

"David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
news:3B848DEC.386015D3 at theworld.com...
> I am afraid the original poster (me) is ignorant so a link or two to
> appropriate information is fine.  I need to check with our software head
> to find out exactly what he has in mind.  I was thinking of those Java
> applets that I assumed download Java byte code to your browser and then
> execute on the client.  So replace Java byte code with Python byte code
> and execute it from the browser.  I very much would like to understand
> what Steve and Maan refer to.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Lees
>
>
> Steve Holden wrote:
> >
> > Indeed. But the question asked if Python could be used "as Java is used
in
> > the browser". Which I took to mean client-side, not server-side like
ASP.
> >
> > regards
> >  Steve
> > --
> > http://www.holdenweb.com/
> >
> > "Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
> > news:to7dejr8jk4e87 at corp.supernews.com...
> > > Steve
> > > The win32all implementation installs the Python ActiveX scripting
engine.
> > > This means that it can be used in ASP pages without the need for any
> > client
> > > to have Python installed.  In cases like that, Python should be
installed
> > on
> > > the server only where Python is run.
> > > Maan
> > >
> > > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> > > news:sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > > > "David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3B82FB32.258CB937 at theworld.com...
> > > > > Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?
I
> > > > > assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is
some
> > > > > sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute
> > Python?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java,
because
> > of
> > > > > the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could
be
> > > > > used directly.
> > > > >
> > > > The ActivePython implementation, or standard Windows Python with the
> > > > win32all extensions, allow you to use Python as an ActiveScripting
> > > language.
> > > > However, you will need to be able to guarantee that all your clients
> > have
> > > > Python installed: is this something under your control?
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > >  Steve
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.holdenweb.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 31 03:35:26 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:35:26 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: n is a object,what means: s='n'    ?
In-Reply-To: <9mnd72$i8$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108311134240.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Formalin wrote:

> class now:
>     ....
>     ....
>     ....
> n=now()
> s='n'
> print s
> 
> 
> the result:<__main__.now instance at 00B2EB0C>

Maybe 

s=`n`

?

It's the same as repr(n)

- string representation which every Python object has.
 
> what means?????


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 25 08:02:50 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:02:50 +0100
Subject: Finalization problems
References: <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <mailman.998680317.19173.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dtm28JAqP5h7EwsA@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Well I built a debug version under win32 and with an artificial repetitive call of the potential
trouble maker am getting NULL pointers in _Py_ForgetReference (called from _Py_Dealloc called
from insertdict ..... called from ceval.c set_exc_info at the line
        /* For b/w compatibility */
        PySys_SetObject("exc_type", type);
        PySys_SetObject("exc_value", value);
        PySys_SetObject("exc_traceback", tb);
}


the error is here

void
_Py_ForgetReference(register PyObject *op)
{
#ifdef SLOW_UNREF_CHECK
        register PyObject *p;
#endif
        if (op->ob_refcnt < 0)
                Py_FatalError("UNREF negative refcnt");

/******************************************
op->_ob_prev and op->_ob_next are NULL here
*******************************************/

        if (op == &refchain ||
            op->_ob_prev->_ob_next != op || op->_ob_next->_ob_prev != op)
                Py_FatalError("UNREF invalid object");
#ifdef SLOW_UNREF_CHECK
        for (p = refchain._ob_next; p != &refchain; p = p->_ob_next) {
                if (p == op)
                        break;
        }
        if (p == &refchain) /* Not found */
                Py_FatalError("UNREF unknown object");
#endif
        op->_ob_next->_ob_prev = op->_ob_prev;
        op->_ob_prev->_ob_next = op->_ob_next;
        op->_ob_next = op->_ob_prev = NULL;
#ifdef COUNT_ALLOCS
        op->ob_type->tp_free++;
#endif
}


the insertdict call is here

                Py_DECREF(old_value); /* which **CAN** re-enter */
                Py_DECREF(key);
        }
-- 
Robin Becker


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  2 08:21:06 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:21:06 -0500
Subject: OT: Map generation/plotting
In-Reply-To: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <15209.17842.773887.56708@beluga.mojam.com>

    David> Does anyone have experience with or pointers to libraries or
    David> utilities that would simplify the job of displaying maps and
    David> translating locations (aka lat/long) to the map for highlighting?

Mapblast?  Mapquest?

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Fri Aug  3 16:03:21 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 15:03:21 -0500
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <etd3d78exgb.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <jty9p0nc6u.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

Alex <new_name at mit.edu> writes:

> Check out boxedpenguin.com.  There's no python in it, and it's just
> getting going, but the guys behind it are really, really good.

        If we actually used Linux this might be more useful. :)  The
Norn system idea is interesting, but seems to be in some cocoon state,
hidden away except for the occasional jiggle.


-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Aug  6 03:37:41 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 09:37:41 +0200
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
References: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my> <j4k80ma03o.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3B6B08A2.8070904@palefish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <j466c1tz96.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

chris hinds <chris at palefish.co.uk> writes:

> I got exactly the same error trying to build python 2.1.1 on Redhat 7.0 
> and afaik I've got the latest RH glibc et al. Has anyone had any luck 
> making on RH7.0?

Can you post exactly what glibc version you have? You find out with
'rpm -qa|grep glibc'.

Regards,
Martin


From jjinkiins at midsouth.rr.com  Sat Aug  4 18:11:55 2001
From: jjinkiins at midsouth.rr.com (jjinkins)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 22:11:55 GMT
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <3B6C7398.3788362E@midsouth.rr.com>

Assuming the class is in a module, why not write functions to act as alternate
constructors?

def MyObjectNbr(number):
    string = "%s" % number
    return MyObject(string)

Class MyObject:
    def __init__(self, string):
        self.string = string

    Jim Jinkins


Mikhael Loo wrote:

> How do you use multiple constructors in a python class.  I'm guesing that it
> doesn't involve multiple __init__ functions.
>
> Below is my idea but I'm thinking there must be another method that  is
> evading me.
>
> Class MyObject:
>     Constructor1(self, number):
>         pass
>     Constructor2(self, string):
>         pass
>
> Help anyone?



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug  9 05:31:44 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:31:44 +0200
Subject: Interesting problem - can it be done
References: <cypc7.301$SW5.10545@eagle.america.net> <3B722A4C.F8D9005C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <9ktl9v01umt@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3B722A4C.F8D9005C at alcyone.com...
    ...
> methods = ['method1', 'method2', 'method3']
> for method in methods:
>     value = apply(getattr(testobj, method), ())

Good, but there's no reason not to spell the last line:

        value = getattr(testobj,method)()

Entities should not be multiplied without necessity,
and the apply here is really doing nothing.


Alex





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 04:06:35 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 01:06:35 -0700
Subject: List or Dictionairy or neither?
References: <3B7CED19.2B5C70F1@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Message-ID: <7xn14r6vzo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dietmar Lang <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> writes:
> Now the list is shelved and I am accessing its items pretty randomly.
> I've found the access times to be rather slow. So my questions are:
> 
> - Would using a dictionary make access faster?

If you're pickling the whole list and reading it over and over, then
yes a dictionary sounds a lot faster.  You could try it...


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 09:15:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:15:10 +0200
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996714310.2991.python-list@python.org> <3b68b5ce.1031682601@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <9kbjov02pi7@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at accessone.com> wrote in message
news:3b68b5ce.1031682601 at wa.news.verio.net...
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:04:16 -0700, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com>
wrote:
> [...]
> OT
> >"/". Life goes on. Get used to it. I'm told Presidents of the United
> >States make mistakes and life goes on then too. I have a strong feeling
> >that if either Python or a country was run by consensus, there would be
> >more mistakes not less.
> Hopefully the country (US) is run by consensus of our representatives, but

It's not supposed to be: a simple majority is sufficient when
several equal representatives are involved (House, Senate,
Supreme Court) -- the minority does get a voice (dissenting
opinion, in the SC's case, for example) but while consensus
may be sought it's surely not required.

If you want historical examples where consensus WAS required,
you'll find plenty -- wherever any member gets unconditional
veto rights, THEN you do need consensus of some sort for a
decision (the President does get to veto Congress votes, but
not unconditionally -- he can still be overruled by a large
enough *majority* in Congress, again consensus not needed).

For example, we still DO need consensus of all Europe Union
countries for many decisions.  Used to be, for all of them,
and we've gradually moved to majority or qualified-majority
for many -- the need for consensus too often leads to
paralysis and extremely watered-down compromises.  But
when sovereign powers are involved it's hard to remove
the need for consensus (i.e., the ability to veto) for
issues close enough to a nation's vital interests -- see
the UN's Security Council, for example.  Again, paralysis
is not all that unlikely.


Alex





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Aug 21 12:20:09 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:20:09 +0200
Subject: reducing if statements and error handling
References: <mailman.998401650.6829.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lu1nr02nbs@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Karthik Gurumurthy" <karthikg at aztec.soft.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.998401650.6829.python-list at python.org...
>
> i was just wondering, if the purpose of the method is just to check wether
> it is a number or not
> it s'd either return a true / false ( +ve number / -ve number)
> It s'd not throw an exception if it does'nt find it to be a number.
> I feel this is not an "exceptional" situation at all for this method.

The fact that a situation is not particularly exceptional is
no reason (in Python) to avoid raising an exception.  Don't
let the practice of other languages such as C++ and Java mess
up your Python style!

E.g., up to Python 2.1, whenever you code:
    for x in asequence:
        print x
there will ALWAYS be an exception raised -- that's how the
for statement knows the sequence is finished, by getting
an IndexError exception from asequence[i] for some i.  Far
from being 'exceptional', this must ALWAYS happen in ANY
for statement that's not interrupted by break, return, or
some other raise.  See -- exceptions are NOT only for
exceptional cases, *in Python*.


Alex





From bbollenbach at home.com  Sat Aug 25 23:22:39 2001
From: bbollenbach at home.com (Brad Bollenbach)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:22:39 GMT
Subject: Combination News/EMail/Webspace Provider?
References: <3b885985_4@Newsfeeds.com>
Message-ID: <3YZh7.5404$t_2.968582@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

You were probably thinking of Newsguy -- www.newsguy.com.

HTH

Brad

"MegaHurts" <neila at nospam.moc> wrote in message
news:3b885985_4 at Newsfeeds.com...
> Many months ago somebody posted a couple of
> suggestions for news servers.  One which received
> good reports offered NG access, but also provided
> webspace and email accounts-- for $75 per year.
>
> Ring any bells?  Google did not help, with such
> generic search parameters.
>
> All suggestions appreciated.
>
> MH
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 20 20:13:52 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:13:52 -0500
Subject: comparing results of fetchall() with a known value
In-Reply-To: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>
References: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15233.42944.771962.461104@beluga.mojam.com>

    Jeff> Here's what I've done: I created an odbc connect to the database,
    Jeff> opened a cursor, executed the sql, then set a variable: namelist =
    Jeff> cursor.fetchall().  What's got me stumped is that "namelist" is a
    Jeff> list of tuples with sample data like: [('smith',), ('johnson',),
    Jeff> ('jackson',), ('jones',)]

That's what it's supposed to do.  If you execute something like

    select a,b,c from mytable where name="monty python"

You'd get a list of three-element tuples from fetchall(), one for each row
in the database that matched the where clause.  For consistency, if you
execute

    select a from mytable where name="monty python"

It still returns a list of tuples, it's just that each tuple only has one
element.  This allows you to treat the results of all queries in a similar
fashion. 

One thing I'm about to experiment with is MySQLdb's DictCursor.  Instead of
returning a list of tuples it returns a list of dicts, whose keys are the
field names, e.g.:

    [{"a": "manny", "b": "moe", "c": "jeff"}, ...]

or

    [{"mytable.a": "manny", "mytable.b": "moe", "mytable.c": "jeff"}, ...]

The problem with returning lists of tuples is that your output order is
somewhat fragile.  With dicts, you don't have that problem.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From arundelo at mediaone.net  Sun Aug 19 12:09:30 2001
From: arundelo at mediaone.net (Aaron Brown)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:09:30 GMT
Subject: MSDOS/Windows program files
References: <bSJf7.10307$_q.197656@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net> <3B7FC7D7.E91828E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <_wRf7.10840$_q.212394@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Maybe that's a bad assumption.  Why not post your code?

You were right -- it was my code!  The fact that the error
message caret always pointed to the last line of the program,
even if it was a comment, was just a symptom of  an input
statement earlier in the program that looked like this:

input("Spam?"

So the interpreter was just waiting around for that trailing
parenthesis.

Your response inspired me to go through the program and
selectively comment everything out -- I felt pretty silly when I
found the mistake.  Thanks for the help!

--Aaron






From JasonHarper at pobox.com  Sun Aug 19 22:18:02 2001
From: JasonHarper at pobox.com (Jason Harper)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:18:02 -0600
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.998258732.15509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8072C7.7AAA3506@pobox.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> About twice every three years, somebody gets excited about this, and says
> they're going to "do something" about it; and Guido approved of the idea of
> adding some methods to longs years ago.  In reality, nothing happens,
> apparently because the kind of person who gets excited about this can't
> restrain themself from getting excited about all sorts of other enhancements
> too, and that's fatal for all the usual reasons.

I think I was the most recent of the excited people you're referring to.
 I did, in fact, manage to implement my set of longint methods: where I
bogged down was in trying to do the same for JPython.  Unfortunately,
the underlying Java BigInteger class doesn't expose some of the details
I needed to implement the methods efficiently, and they ended up having
the same order of complexity as what you could already write directly in
Python.  I didn't feel that it would be reasonable to submit such a
fundamental change to the core language, when it would not actually help
in all Python variants.  Perhaps I should have looked into a different
or smaller set of methods that could have been efficiently implemented
in Java, but some computer and real-world problems I was having around
that time made it impractical for me to work on it further.

I tried to report my results here several times, but my newsreader
seemed to have other ideas, and would inevitably crash or hang when I
tried to post such a message.  Hopefully this time will work better...
	Jason Harper


From slaytanic_killer at disinfo.net  Sun Aug 26 21:58:02 2001
From: slaytanic_killer at disinfo.net (slaytanic killer)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 18:58:02 -0700
Subject: Storing Python procedures in XML
Message-ID: <4688f24b.0108261758.70ed9622@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I hope this isn't a basic question, but I notice a tactic people seem
to use is storing Python code in XML, like event-handlers, for more
fluid representation than sticking them in .py files.  What is this
practice called, and where can I go to find out more about it or
download libraries which facilitate this?

FYI, I found this in Jext, which is a Java text editor which uses
Jython libraries.  Java touts dynamic programming, but not quite as
dynamic as this.

Thanks for any help.


From bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 16:12:33 2001
From: bryanjugglercryptographer at yahoo.com (Bryan Olson)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:12:33 -0700
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
Message-ID: <1a517b5.0108281212.1cb930c2@posting.google.com>

I've done a Google search and found that others have had the same 
problem I'm having.  Any upgrade of Python, even from 2.0 to 2.1, breaks 
extension modules.  I'm working on MS-Windows, and the extension cannot 
find python20.dll, which is not surprising because it was replace with 
python21.dll.  I suppose I could put back the old DLL, but I don't know 
what that would do, since the rest of the system is using the newer DLL.

I don't the workings of Windows DLL's are to blame; Unix shared 
libraries would have the same problem.

If the interface to Python extensions actually changed, then certainly 
there's no avoiding updating the extensions.  The current system is much 
worse; any upgrade to Python breaks extensions, in many cases 
needlessly.

I don't think that giving different versions of dynamic libraries the 
same name, such as "python.dll", is a good idea.  It would just cause 
other problems.


So here's my proposal for a solution: don't make the extension load the 
library.  When the interpreter loads the extension, it should give it a 
pointer through which it can find all the library objects. The pointer 
could just be the system-dependent library pointer/handle, but more 
elegant would be a table of functions, defined the same on all 
platforms.

I think the change could be made without forcing code changes to 
extensions (though of course they'd need one last re-compile).  We just 
have to change the statically-linked stubs library.  We need one 
function that always gets linked in, and that the interpreter will call 
with the function-table pointer.  The utility functions that the library 
offers would be stubs that get the function pointers from the table, and 
call through them.

Of course we should think this through and try to find a way to 
negotiate versions, so that extensions last as long as possible.


Is this idea PEP-worthy?

--Bryan


From tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net  Sun Aug 26 15:10:08 2001
From: tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:10:08 +0200
Subject: Whats wrong with this code?
References: <3B88403B.9BF2CADE@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <gihbm9.it8.ln@utolot.toppoint.de>

Adonis Vargas <deltapigz at telocity.com> wrote:
>     data = pirc_data.readlines()
This is the culprit if I'm not mistaken.
readlines() will read till the file ends; in this case, till the other end
closes the connection. Try pirc_data.readline() instead. I guess this is
what you meant in trhe first place

This is from my head, so might be totally wrong...

using-his-router-cause-his-amiga-refuses-to-work'ly
  Marc


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Tue Aug  7 01:59:25 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 05:59:25 GMT
Subject: Linked lists (was Re: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.997109170.25172.python-list@python.org> <yox3d74785g.fsf@karhu.tp.spt.fi>
Message-ID: <fh0vmt8dl3qor2c0btvutvnk8t2atjndjl@4ax.com>

>I don't care if I had to explicitly express that I want linked list,
>it just should be there. Or is the concept problematic in Python, for
>some reason?

There have been any number of creations of native Linked Lists for
Python over the years, all usually in spite of advice against doing
so (yours truly being one such head strong victim). 

Interpreter overhead in Python is high. The cost dispatching external
methods is high. This cost is high enough to hide all O(N) complexity
costs for most normal values of N.

If you have some special purpose linked list where N > 2000, it's
easy enough to find an extension to fit your purposes. But as for
the every day Python user, you have to admit that's a fairly special
case. It therefore wouldn't be justified putting it into the language
proper.

C//



From xauau at yahoo.com.au  Mon Aug  6 05:18:19 2001
From: xauau at yahoo.com.au (xauau)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 19:18:19 +1000
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <87r8upo8bo.fsf@xeno.localhost>

Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson at home.com> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> Say I have the strings:
>   'foo   bar      snafu'
>   'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'
> 
> Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the 
> duplicate spaces out so that the files look like:
>   'foo bar snafu'
>   'fiddle faddle pip pop'
> 
> I could iteratively apply string.replace, replacing '  ' with 
> ' ', but that doesn't seem the optimum course.

An easier way is to use split and join together:

'split' will partition a string into a list items, separated by
whatever character(s) you like. (Defaults to space).

s = 'foo  bar     snafu'
s.split() -> ['foo', 'bar', 'snafu']

Now you can use 'join' to join these list items together into a new
strng, with a single space (or anything else you want) between them:

' '.join(['foo', 'bar', 'snafu']) -> 'foo bar snafu'
'XXX'.join(['foo', 'bar', 'snafu']) -> 'fooXXXbarXXXsnafu'


So the following one-liner will do what you need:

' '.join(s.split())





From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug  5 19:47:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:47:50 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <Qukb7.94207$Xr6.461571@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELDLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Stephen Horne]
>> I'd like to point out that the large number of 'viruses' I've been
>> e-mailed over the last couple of weeks won't affect my viewpoint. I
>> thought this was an innocent case of other people being infected at
>> first, but it's rather strange that when I reply to these e-mails to
>> warn people that their machines have been infected the addresses
>> mysteriously don't exist and the messages consistently bounce.

[Neil Hodgson]
>     This is not restricted to you. Large numbers of people have been
> receiving these probably due to the Sircam worm/virus. I've received
> some and I'm for the division change.

Ah, *that's* what this is about -- "I send you this file in order to have
your advice", etc.  webmaster at python.org has gotten hundreds of these,
possibly thousands.  We thought they came from Stephen <wink>.  My primary
ISP filters them out, so I've only seen about 50 of them; in *most* cases,
the return address is in fact bogus, although I haven't seen that aspect
confirmed in the tech reports.

> ..
>    That does look like Sircam which uses random English and Spanish
> messages.
>    See
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2776123,00.html

Indeed it does.




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Tue Aug  7 23:19:27 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:19:27 +1000
Subject: [announce] Roundup issue tracker version 0.2.6
Message-ID: <0108081319270C.01694@ike>

            Roundup 0.2.6 - an issue tracking system

*** Roundup is now released under the same terms as the Python License. ***

This is predominantly a bugfix release - a couple of bugs in the init were 
found which caused problems getting started.

Feature:
 . Added tests for instance initialisation. No more releasing the software
   with bugs in roundup.init!
 . Now bundling unittest with the package so that python 2.0 users can use
   the tests.
 . Much better error handling and messages generated by the mail gateway.

Fixed:
 . Implemented correct mail splitting. Added unit tests. Also snips
   signatures now too.
 . Bug #447671 - typo in roundup/init.py
 . Changed date.Date to use regular string formatting instead of strftime -
   win32 seems to have problems with %T and no hour... or something...
 . Bug #448484 - now catching correct exception from makedirs.
 . Instances are now opened by a special function that generates a unique
   module name for the instances on import time.


Roundup is a simple-to-use and -install issue-tracking system with 
command-line, web and e-mail interfaces. It is based on the winning design 
from Ka-Ping Yee in the Software Carpentry "Track" design competition.

Note: Ping is not responsible for this project. The contact for this project 
is richard at sourceforge.net.

Roundup manages a number of issues (with flexible properties such as 
"description", "priority", and so on) and provides the ability to (a) submit 
new issues, (b) find and edit existing issues, and (c) discuss issues with 
other participants. The system will facilitate communication among the 
participants by managing discussions and notifying interested parties when 
issues are edited. One of the major design goals for Roundup that it be 
simple to get going. Roundup is therefore usable "out of the box" with any 
python 2.0+ installation. It doesn't even need to be "installed" to be 
operational, though a disutils-based install script is provided.

It comes with two issue tracker templates and three database back-ends. 
Back-ends for relational databases are being developed.

Source is available at the website:
      http://sourceforge.net/projects/roundup/



From new_name at mit.edu  Tue Aug 14 23:56:54 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 23:56:54 -0400
Subject: Contributing to python -- how to do it?
References: <roy.smith-C9AB4F.23080014082001@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <etdzo92dlh5.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>

If it were me, I'd just announce it in this forum, describe what it does
fairly precisely, and either include it in your post, or make it
available for download somewhere.

Alex.


From Weet.Vanniks at el_simpatico.be  Wed Aug 29 07:31:16 2001
From: Weet.Vanniks at el_simpatico.be (Weet Vanniks)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:31:16 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <sNQi7.82$nu3.1545@pollux.casema.net> <3B8C9863.A489278F@el_simpatico.be> <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <3B8CD284.AA2CCF09@el_simpatico.be>

Python stops where speed starts to matter. As computers get faster, this is a
moveable frontier.
If you program for a living, then other factors start to matter much earlier
such as hype (for VB vs Python) and lack of marketing $ (for Java vs Python).


jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

> I can read, write, speak , hear, understand english. I'm dutch, so dutch
> still is easier for me. That's why I asked for dutch books.
>
> so if i got it right, python is easier then vb. Only one  thing is not easy.
> You can't just put  a control on a form. But there are special thingies in
> python who can.
>
> And i've got one more question. What's the limit of python. What can you not
> make in it. Vb stops somewere, c++ stops later. Weere stops python?
> Thank you for your fast reactions.



From doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 03:07:11 2001
From: doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 00:07:11 -0700
Subject: New Type in Extension Module Not Accessing PyNumberMethods???
References: <e71960c5.0108081842.19435ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e71960c5.0108082307.154b608b@posting.google.com>

doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com (doug) wrote in message news:<e71960c5.0108081842.19435ff at posting.google.com>...
> im trying to write a python extension type which i am basically
> modeling on xxmodule.c that comes with the source.  however, for the
> life of me, i cannot get the numeric operations to work (just simple
> addition and subtraction here) and i cannot see what im doing wrong. 
> Isnt the following what one has to do to get numeric operations???

Ok, i have narrowed my problem a bit.  PyNumberMethods is being
accessed properly, so i mistitled this thread.  The problem is that
the MyObject_add() method is called only when both operands being
added are the same type.  IOW, MyObject_add() is called only when
adding "MyObject + MyObject" and isnt called when adding "MyObject +
8".  How, using an extension type, can you implement "apples +
oranges"???

Clearly it is beneficial to enforce type safety and only allow "apples
+ apples" but there are other times when it is necessary to have the
flexibility to do "apples + oranges".  For instance, I may want to be
able to add a stock variable with a flow variable in addition to
adding two stock variables.  How can i tweak the addition method for
an extension type to be able to accommodate this?

TIA,
doug_bartholomew99 at yahoo.com


From wware at world.std.com  Wed Aug  1 21:06:32 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:06:32 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <GHF1qw.KHD@world.std.com>

Robin Becker (robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk) wrote:
> python's development [is] somewhat less than democratic. We get
> the chance to shout, but the DFL has already made the decision.

I'm trying to remember when and where exactly Guido promised me
that I would get a heavily weighted vote in the design of Python.
As I sift through my few memories of direct interaction with Guido,
I come up with "never".

It's one thing to argue that a change is bad for the language.
It's entirely another to demand a vote, and to whine when you
don't receive one. If Guido didn't promise you a vote, he doesn't
owe you one.

At the end of the day, it's his language. He has given you good
stuff in the past, for which many people feel gratitude is
appropriate, and he is quite likely to give you more good stuff
in the future.

> At some point the DFL will make a decision that's wrong. I
> suppose the herd will have another group hug and accept it.

Yikes. Get some therapy.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From erlangen72 at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 14 19:57:12 2001
From: erlangen72 at hotmail.com (Mark_Pryor)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:57:12 GMT
Subject: Need Help with COM
References: <9lc9t0$fo4$1@news.apple.com>
Message-ID: <sVie7.10397$ZM2.950970@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi,
Michael A. Howard wrote in message <9lc9t0$fo4$1 at news.apple.com>...
>I'm coming to Python from VB and trying to understand how the COM stuff
>works.
>
>I have a COM server (not written by me) that supports in VB the call
>oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
>Which returns the caption of this item as I can see it from the object
>browser in VB
>
>The same call in python returns:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'Caption'
>
>If I use Excel as an example i.e.
>o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1).Caption
>I get   u'&File'
>Which is also what I get in VB (well &File anyway)
>
>So what am I doing wrong?

Either write the call like this (to handle the tuple):
( junk, mycap ) = oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption

or redesign the Item method to pass the index by value!
You might have to switch the vars above.

hth,
Mark Pryor
pgp KeyID: 0x1A966EC5





From matt at mondoinfo.com  Mon Aug 27 22:06:02 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:06:02 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs. PyQt
References: <mailman.998762078.15143.python-list@python.org> <3B880077.B2ABBB5A@jam.rr.com> <7x8zg58zn9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <e0Di7.12642$x84.3535474@ruti.visi.com>

On 27 Aug 2001 05:18:18 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com>
wrote:

>but at least with those docs, there were some simple things I wasn't
>able to figure out how to easily do.  For example, I don't see an
>easy way to make the buttons in a column come out the same size
>(though their labels were of different lengths).

Paul,
I've got a GUI MUA (currently working on version 0.4) that uses
Tkinter so I can assure you that there's a fair amount of stuff in
Tkniter that's maddening. On the other hand, there's a lot of support
for Tkinter. Pmw (http://pmw.sourceforge.net/) is very useful and
there are lots of folks who can answer Tkinter questions.

Regarding the buttons, you can specify a width:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> r=Tk()
>>> b=Button(r,text="a",width=10)
>>> b.pack()
>>> b=Button(r,text="ab",width=10)
>>> b.pack()
>>> b=Button(r,text="abc",width=10)
>>> b.pack()

That's fine if you want a button that's the same width as another
button but doesn't do you much good if you want a button that's the
same width as something that's measured in dots rather than
"characters". Here's a way to do that:

>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> r=Tk()
>>> f=Frame(r,width=100,height=30,bg="green")
>>> f.pack()
>>> bf=Frame(r,width=100,height=30)
>>> bf.pack_propagate(0)
>>> b=Button(bf,text="wibble")
>>> b.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
>>> bf.pack()

That technique is in Fredrik's introduction but it's easy to miss.

The pack_propagate() call in there is what's interesting. It turns out
that Frames that don't contain anything stay the size that they were
created. But Frames that contain things (even if they were created
with their size specified) snap down to the smallest rectangle that
will contain the widgets inside them unless their pack_propagate()
method is called with a zero. Like I said, there's lots of stuff there
that's maddening.

Regards,
Matt


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Aug 28 18:49:13 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:49:13 -0400
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com> <15243.59287.973821.916774@beluga.mojam.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281253320.28808-100000@ttul.org>
Message-ID: <lbVi7.60355$54.3284319@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Ken Simpson" <ksimpson at ttul.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281253320.28808-100000 at ttul.org...
> > This is very cool.  Can it (internally, at least) just be called
"inline" or
> > "Inline" though?  There's no particular need to distinguish it from
Perl's
> > Inline module within the scope of Python programs, is there?
>
> No, there really isn't any need to call the module PyInline. However, I
> didn't want to call the project Inline because that would conflict with
> Brian's work and to call the module something different than the project
> would perhaps be confusing.. Thoughts??
>
> > Were you able to leverage any of the techniqueus used in Brian
Ingerson's
> > work?
>
> I looked at Brian's Inline to figure out PyInline's high level design and
> also to figure out how one builds arbitrary chunks of "anonymous" code
> (i.e., one idea is to build the code in a subdirectory which has in its
> name the MD5 checksum of the code).
>
> Brian's Inline also provides a few abstractions which I will be adding to
> PyInline in future. In particular, PyInline currently only supports C.
> In order to support the addition of more languages, I need to abstract out
> the concept of building an arbitrary chunk of code in some language and
> then "binding" to it.
>
Question:

When PyInline supports Perl, will Python users be able to inline Perl
modules that inline other languages? The mind boggles. PyInline is a nice
piece of work.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From dalke at acm.org  Sun Aug 12 16:24:17 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:24:17 +0100
Subject: Any 1 know how to hack in Python
References: <20010812231616.17889.00003924@ng-co1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9l7haq$vff$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Patio87 wrote:
>If there is any 1 who knows how to hack in python [...]

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

                    Andrew





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 16 12:05:14 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:05:14 +0200
Subject: simple example of bit manipulation in python?
References: <ODLe7.864$y9k.170724864@news.telia.no>
Message-ID: <9lgqvp0ugv@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at gatsoft.no> wrote in message
news:ODLe7.864$y9k.170724864 at news.telia.no...
> Hi,
>
> Can anobody point to or provide a simple example of bit manipulation using
> plain python?

You mean "bit manipulation" as in:

>>> x=0xdeadbeef
>>> low=0xFFFF
>>> "%x"%(x&low)
'beef'
>>> "%x"%(x>>16&low)
'dead'
>>>

or what?


Alex





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Aug 30 11:43:19 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (dman)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:43:19 -0400
Subject: [Tutor] Is Python powerful enough for this?
In-Reply-To: <3B8E4794.9988.1181E6F@localhost>; from printers@sendme.cz on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:03:00PM +0200
References: <3B8E4794.9988.1181E6F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010830114319.B9508@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:03:00PM +0200, A wrote:
| Hi,
| I have some webpages that contain FORMS. Each form has input 
| fields and also some hidden fields. 
| How can I easily get urlencoded string from all these fields
| like
| Key1=Value1&Key2=Value2&Key3=Value3

You're looking to write some CGI scripts that will receive the form
submisison and then process it, right?

See the 'cgi' module, it parses the url string for you and provides
the data as a dictionary.  Really easy to use.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-cgi.html

-D



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 16:14:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:14:06 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <3B72DCBA.C99465BC@labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <9kuqsq02ts0@enews4.newsguy.com>

"David Smith" <drs at labs.agilent.com> wrote in message
news:3B72DCBA.C99465BC at labs.agilent.com...
    ...
> class I have at hand, __init__ does some real work, which I want to
> bypass -- I want to clone the results of that work.  I don't want to
    ...
> Is there a way for __copy__ to create a bare object of the same class,
> which it can proceed to populate?

Piece of cake:

class Fleep:
    def __init__(self, x, y, z):
        print 'lots',x,'of',y,'work',z
    def __copy__(self):
        class Temp: pass
        newbie = Temp()
        newbie.__class__=self.__class__
        print "very little work"


Alex





From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Sun Aug  5 11:30:14 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 5 Aug 2001 15:30:14 GMT
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <9kjoq6$4jb$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>

According to William Annis  <annis at biostat.wisc.edu>:
>         Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
> system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
> etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
> *infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."
> 
>         I'd rather not do this alone. 

Don't do it. Yet.

This problem has been around long before the first Internet gold rush -
many skilled people have attacked it. Find something you can get going,
e.g., cfengine, Big Brother, even the old venerable Nocol.

Join Usenix and SAGE. Check out the material of Usenix's sysadmin
conferences from years past. Behold the diversity. It doesn't have to be
Python.

Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From midnight at the.oasis  Sun Aug  5 06:30:09 2001
From: midnight at the.oasis (almwco)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:30:09 +0100
Subject: Syntax Errors on make install
Message-ID: <slrn9mq81g.of.midnight@www.wkl.lan>

I downloaded the version 2.1.1 tarball.  Configure, make and test
seemed to run smoothly, but make install gave some syntax errors which
scrolled off the screen before I could read them properly.  The
interpreter works fine, as far as I can tell.  Should I be concerned
about those syntax errors?  My system is Debian woody, kernel 2.2.18,
libc6 2.1.3-18, gcc 2.95.2-13.

Incidentally, something on my system unzipped the tarball without my
knowledge, but left the filename unchanged (Python-2.1.1.tgz).  I
downloaded the tarball in Mozilla (M18-3) using HTTP, so I suppose
Mozilla is the obvious suspect.  Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

--
almwco


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 05:29:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:29:41 +0200
Subject: re bad leadership
References: <0+yM4IAgmKX7EwIQ@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9juspa$8p0$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9kb6i5129al@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:9juspa$8p0$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <0+yM4IAgmKX7EwIQ at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
> Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >MDFL
>
> What does this stand for?

"Mrolling on De Floor, Laughing"...?


Alex





From michael at stroeder.com  Sun Aug 19 13:01:45 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:01:45 +0200
Subject: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <slrn9nsll8.b19.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <7xofpcijuw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvj75.mv.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com>

phil hunt wrote:
> 
> On 19 Aug 2001 00:34:15 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
> >philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt) writes:
> >> Ones you find interesting.
> >>
> >> For example, if you are interested in email encryption, you might
> >> want to have a look at my herprip program,
> >> <http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/herbrip.html>.
> >
> >Is there some reason you've defined your own protocol instead of just
> >using S/MIME or OpenPGP?
> 
> My understanding of OpenPGP is that it doesn't provide for automatic
> transmission of public keys

Hmm, note that verifying the authenticity of public keys prior of
using them for encryption or signature verification is an essential
part of using public-key cryptography.

> my goal is to make encryption totally effort-free for the user

IMHO not doable.

> Nor does it encrypt header fields such as the Subject: line,

Also a deficiency of S/MIME.

> nor does it make secret the fact that an emauil contains a MIME
> attachment (both of which could help an adversary, e.g. with
> traffic analysis).

AFAIK can be hidden when encrypting with S/MIME.

> I haven't looked into S/MIME. Is there a web page with a good usmmary of
> it?

http://www.rsasecurity.com/standards/smime/
http://www.imc.org/ietf-smime/index.html

Ciao, Michael.


From mats at laplaza.org  Thu Aug 16 06:43:54 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:43:54 GMT
Subject: Zombies from forked thread process. Why?
References: <mailman.997891588.7217.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7ba1ba.242252410@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:53:01 -0400, Dave Cinege
<dcinege at psychosis.com> wrote:

:Linux 2.4, Debian 2.2/Redhat 7.1 Python 2.1.1 compiled from source.
:
:I have a daemon process that watches a directory for files. When
:some appear it decides what to do with them and then spawns a 
:processor to handle them. To be speedy it detaches (forks) a processor
:for each 'section'. Eveything run perfect, except that when the processor 
:process returns it leaves a zombie in the process tree:

Zombies are processes that have completed processing, but whose parent
has not yet collected their exit status.  Your program  needs to
"wait" for them to collect the status.


Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 29 10:31:14 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:31:14 -0500
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
In-Reply-To: <9mi3up$2934s$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com>
        <9mi3up$2934s$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <15244.64690.562428.757255@beluga.mojam.com>

    Thomas> Inspired by the recent discussion of perls inline module I wrote
    Thomas> the attached module, which is yet another way to do it.

Worked fine for me except I had to change "python.h" to "Python.h".

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 01:50:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:50:10 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMENDLEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Donn Cave]
> ...
> We got here talking about static type checking, and there is some reason
> to think that could open up some opportunities for optimization.

Yet an opportunity unseized may as well not exist.  In a decade of talk
about this, nobody has volunteered enough effort to complete crafting a
static type system; and if & when someone does, it's a great deal more work
than that to do anything generally useful speedwise with it.  For whatever
reason, Python hasn't attracted the legions of grad students in search of a
thesis who *usually* get this kind of work started; neither has it attracted
sufficient funding to hire a pro for this kind of work.  Maybe we can
eventually piggyback off some other dynamic-language JIT framework, but
nobody in the Python community is (AFAIK) even looking at it.

looking-for-speed-in-all-the-wrong-places-ly y'rs  - tim




From deltapigz at telocity.com  Mon Aug 20 19:06:27 2001
From: deltapigz at telocity.com (Adonis Vargas)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:06:27 -0400
Subject: Question...
Message-ID: <3B8197F3.D7A031B1@telocity.com>

how do i enumerate active sockets? i had an idea of setting the handle
of that socket connecting to my computer (its a server script), to a
variable (list, tuple) then run down the list when needed to do a
"server-wide" broadcast of X message. now i know there has to be
something a tad more simple than this.

any help would greately be appreciated.

Adonis



From sa at bayt.net  Tue Aug  7 03:09:00 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:09:00 +0200
Subject: probs w/ building python extensions on free Microsoft.NET SDK
Message-ID: <004701c11f0f$d5dc0020$6101a8c0@rodney>

meekly...

It seems newbieness (like everthing) is a function of time. If I spent more
time (w/ the documentation, it seems...:-) I would have reached the
exquisite point of "python setup.py build" sooner. Thank you distutils. Now
I will import noddy until i fall asleep....

I concur with those who have said that the extension and embedding docs are
simply not meant for newbies. However, one should accept the possibility
(given that python is positioned as a CP4E language) that beginners (who
might actually be somewhat proficient at python) will attempt to sample C
(and other langs) in the quest to deal with 'perceived' issues such as
performance, etc... I certainly don't think it's a problem if I want python
to be my window into other languages.

So in my particular case... I wouldn't mind if this trajectory via simpler
documentation was made somewhat smoother: less rapid context switching
between unix and windows and a "hello world w/ python setup.py
build" example on a single page would be nice. Maybe it's just me but I
found the
current docs on the topic slightly dense until something slapped me on some
page about a NoddyType and told me it's actually much easier than it seems
because its python.

ok...I think I might just attempt something like this for my particular
case. Here goes:

"Compiling CPython Extensions using MicroShaft's .NET SDK" - for naughty
newbies who like freebies and don't like baby steps.
    [platform: win2k, python 2.1.1, Microsoft .Net SDK]


1. download and install the M$ .Net SDK from
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?url=/downloads/sample.asp?ur
l=/msdn-files/027/000/976/msdncompositedoc.xml&frame=true

2. from the python 2.1.1 src distribution grab example.c
(path:Python-2.1.1\PC\example_nt\example.c)
and place it in any directory x

3. create file called 'setup.py' with code below and save it (along with
example.c) in directory x:

 from distutils.core import setup, Extension
 setup(name = "example", version = "1.0",
      ext_modules = [Extension("example", ["example.c"])])

4. cd to folder x and type the following :

 python setup.py build

5. barring any fatal errors, a new "build" directory has appeared in x, cd
to its "lib.win32-2.1" subdirectory. You should find an example.pyd file in
it.
Kick into python interactive mode and test the extension:

ActivePython 2.1.1, build 212 (ActiveState)
Python 2.1.1 (#20, Jul 26 2001, 11:38:51) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import example
>>> example.foo()
Hello, world
>>>

6. NOW read the real documentation:
http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/ext/ext.html
but _BEFORE_ that please learn how to speak in C. Kernighan & Ritchie's
"Programming in C" is supposed to be *the* starter...
[http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/]


PS:I guess the nice conclusion of this minor adventure is that you don't
have to shell out hard-earned cash on visual something or the other to
compile python extensions on MicroShaft's c/c++ compiler... just download
their .NET SDK. (much better to spend it on python software/books of course)

Of course there's always the cygwin thing...

ok let's try it on the same files (setup.py as above and example.c):

sa at local ~
$ python setup.py build
running build
running build_ext
building 'example' extension
skipping example.c (build/temp.cygwin_nt-5.0-1.3.2-i686-2.1/example.o
up-to-date
)
gcc -shared -Wl,--enable-auto-image-base
build/temp.cygwin_nt-5.0-1.3.2-i686-2.1
/example.o -L/usr/lib/python2.1/config -lpython2.1 -o
build/lib.cygwin_nt-5.0-1.
3.2-i686-2.1/example.dll
Cannot export _bss_end__: symbol not defined
Cannot export _bss_start__: symbol not defined
Cannot export _data_end__: symbol not defined
Cannot export _data_start__: symbol not defined
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

o well...

still a newbie-ly-yrs..

Shakeeb




From gmcm at hypernet.com  Sun Aug  5 20:29:53 2001
From: gmcm at hypernet.com (Gordon McMillan)
Date: 06 Aug 2001 00:29:53 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997048811.22969.python-list@python.org> <3B6DD1D0.C044E320@Lugoj.Com>
Message-ID: <Xns90F4D09B21583gmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>

James Logajan wrote: 

> Tim Peters wrote:
>> The meaning of division a program needs depends entirely on context. 
>> Any meaning is "wrong" in some programming contexts. 
> 
> Oops. Talk about scorched earth arguments. Given that, I think you've
> just made it an issue decided by a preponderance of opinion (i.e. a
> vote). Unless you and/or Guido admit to knowledge of all possible
> programming contexts? 
> 
> (What harm do you believe befalls Python if nothing is done?)

When I write a line of code involving division, I *know* what
kind of division I want. Having one spelling for two different
types of division does not favor any particular context. It
harms them all.

- Gordon


From cmiller at math.cudenver.edu  Wed Aug 22 17:05:15 2001
From: cmiller at math.cudenver.edu (cary miller)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:05:15 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221607370.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221501460.32346-100000@math.cudenver.edu>

> print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)

is simplest if you only want to know about the os module.  To get the
location of any module do this:

mod = os
os.path.dirname(eval(mod.__name__).__file__)



On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, cary miller wrote:
>
> > How about this?
> >
> > import os
> > mod = eval('os')
> > mod.__file__
>
> That works, although we don't need the eval() in there, I think.
>
> ---
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> import os
>
> print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)
> ---
>
> There we go. I think that's the simplest possible implementation. Does
> everyone agree?
>
>

-- 
Cary Miller
Math Deparment
University of Colorado - Denver
cmiller at math.cudenver.edu
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~cmiller




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 17 11:43:30 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:43:30 -0500
Subject: Python Win installations and PYTHONPATH Confusion (WAS:  Re: Python Path Blues)
References: <mailman.998008948.12318.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tnqeusm7gm6f8c@corp.supernews.com>

What is important here is that this can be a BIG turn-off for beginners.
It took me more than a day of tinkering with the registry while trying to
make DCOracle2 and mxODBC packages for Python run correctly.  Then I
discovered it was all a matter of adding PYTHONPATH into the environment in
Win NT and Win ME (for Win ME through running msconfig  then going to
Environment tab or creating a PYTHONPATH setting in autoexec.bat which
updates the Win ME environment).
Of concern:
1.  Upon installing Python (PythonWin or the regular Python distribution for
Windows), the registry itself is updated with the lib path, but NO
PYTHONPATH setting is created in the environment.  This is MISLEADING, since
it appears that every other thrid party package is using this environment
setting.  If it is surprising Tim Peters :) I do not know how new comers to
Python would figure something like this out.
2.  I noticed that Python for Win installation adds Class ID's to the
default Library paths in the registry.  Why?  Other packages do not add
these class id settings, and they depend on the PYTHONPATH environment.
Treating the default installation libs differently should not be
recommended.  Also, what is the reasoning behind these class id entries for
these default lib paths?
3.  All this is leading to a PYTHONPATH setting in the registry, and a
PYTHONPATH setting in the environment.  Do they have to be in synch?  Such
behaviour is a trademark of Microsoft mentality - identity crisis, and
confusion.  Please, let us keep Python immune from such confusing
behaviours.
4.  Mark Hammond:  If you are reading this - what is going on, and how these
settings are related?
Maan

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998008948.12318.python-list at python.org...
> [Maan M. Hamze]
> > Issue resolved.
> > Although the search path is set in the windows NT registry, I discovered
> > that it was not set in:  My Computer ..... Properties .... Environment.
> > I truly thought that the registry was enough, but apparently it is not.
> > Having set the PYTHONPATH in the environment the problem was resolved.
> > Strange:  What is the point of the registry then?
>
> I'm not sure, it hasn't always been this way, and *all* behaviors for
> PYTHONPATH have surprised me since I first used Python on Windows.  Mark
> Hammond has a Design here, but the only clues I know of as to exactly what
> it is are hiding in comments attached to bug reports on SourceForge.  If
you
> figure it out, please submit a doc patch <0.7 wink>.
>
> cheerfully y'rs  - tim
>
>




From aahz at panix.com  Tue Aug 21 12:44:06 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:44:06 -0700
Subject: global declaration from within functions
References: <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F@jam.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9lu34m$keb$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3B7A87D8.6F75B13F at jam.rr.com>, Rob Andrews  <rob at jam.rr.com> wrote:
>
>*Learning Python* (pp. 99-105) points out that declaring globals from
>within functions is possible, and shows how. I'm trying to think of
>*why* one might want to declare or modify a global from within a
>function.
>
>A friend who knows quite a bit more than I do about the subject said:
>"That's the first thing about python I've seen that really makes me go
>"yecchhh.".  Global variables have to be declared outside the scope of
>any functions or methods in almost every langauge except Perl."

Side note: global names (I prefer to use "name" instead of "variable")
are not truly global in Python; they are only global within a module
namespace.  The only way to get a truly global name is to hack the
builtins module.
-- 
                      --- Aahz  <*>  (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6                 http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista   

"I now regard a fact as a hypothesis that people don't bother to argue
about anymore."  --John Burn, quoted in Lawrence Wright's _Twins_


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Aug 26 00:48:45 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:48:45 -0400
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
In-Reply-To: <slrn.pl.9oemv2.ffr.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBJLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Marcin 'Qrczak'  Kowalczyk]
>>> Would it work for Python to not heap-allocate ints but tag them in
>>> the lowest bit, assuming pointers are even?

[Tim]
>> No, and for several reasons.  The most obvious one is that Python
>> runs on word-addressed machines, where no bits of a pointer are
>> abusable.

[Marcin]
> Making it optional, falling back to current representation in such
> case, solves this problem.

Be serious:  "optional" behavior in fundamental representation decisions
always creates more problems than it solves.  In particular, I can't see
what this one "solves" even if it were always possible.  Do some homework:
take a substantial piece of, say, ceval.c, and flesh out what it would look
like in the world of your dreams.  The code today enjoys substantial
regularity via *always* working with a PyObject*.  Are you going to muck
with unions everywhere instead, or play casting tricks on every other line
to check whether the last bit is set, ... or?  Flesh it out.  Does
special-casing the last bit come for free?  What does a Py_DECREF expand to
in your world? Py_INCREF?  Note that the caller can't avoid passing ints to
those, because the representation trick is optional in this world, and
callers aren't going to duplicate every incref/decref under "#ifdef
MARCINS_FOLLY" blocks <wink>.  I count over 500 "if (x != NULL)" and "if (x
== NULL)" tests in the core implementation, where x is a PyObject* and you
generally can't say from context whether or not it's an int.  What do those
turn into?  Etc.

> Any others?

See above.  I've never worked on a system so perverse, but Guido has and
hated it (in his experience, it did not come for free, and caused more
trouble than it saved).




From pknight at eurologic.com  Fri Aug  3 04:07:17 2001
From: pknight at eurologic.com (Pat Knight)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 09:07:17 +0100
Subject: OT: Map generation/plotting
References: <uu1zrbcz8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <mailman.996777025.30145.python-list@python.org> <ug0bayqk7.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <uvgk5muru.fsf@eurologic.com>

In a previous job I produced a Python script to draw maps using the
CIA world map database. Unfortunately, my previous employer has the
rights to the script so I can't just post it.

However, it didn't take long to write. You can get the data files from
various places on the net (I think we got them from
gatekeeper.dec.com). They're in a well documented format storing
national boundaries, oceans, rivers, lakes etc as sequences of
points. The points use a latitude/longitude encoding. There are open
source C programs that handle the format - these together with the
data documentation should let you write a Python script quite
quickly. I used PIL to generate PNG and JPG versions.

I never did automatic colouring of the maps - an exercise for the
developer? :-)


From sbrunning at bigfoot.com  Wed Aug  8 17:18:56 2001
From: sbrunning at bigfoot.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 14:18:56 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <12f02d51.0108081318.10091b54@posting.google.com>

A preliminary of a Python version quick reference is now available at
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR.html>.

Please send any comments and corrections to me at
sbrunning at bigfoot.com. I won't be able to respond until Monday at the
earliest, so please be patient!

Cheers,
Simon B.


From joost_jacob at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 20 11:04:19 2001
From: joost_jacob at hotmail.com (J.Jacob)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 08:04:19 -0700
Subject: exception attributes
References: <13285ea2.0108190737.7a18c8b8@posting.google.com> <P0Sf7.56332$MC1.19021960@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <13285ea2.0108200703.1a0184ab@posting.google.com>

Uhm, any code that compiles and run and receives no warnings can not
be "wrong", can it ?  Nothing is deprecated unless the latest stable
version says so i think.
Also the first line in my posting mentioned the word "testing"...i was
just experimenting to see how things work and i found some unexpected
behavior.


From shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu  Sat Aug 11 03:27:26 2001
From: shwang5 at students.uiuc.edu (Seung-won Hwang)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:27:26 -0700
Subject: [Q]Popping up ComboBox
Message-ID: <Hk3d7.5666$A3.39813@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi, I'm newbie in Tkinterprogramming. I'd like to pop up the form as below
in the callback function of menubar and keep failing... Any code example or
help would be very helpful to me.

Bests,
SW

---

#!c:\python21\python
from Tkinter import *
from tkSimpleDialog import Dialog
import Pmw

class MixedWidgets(Dialog):

    def body(self, master):
        Label(master, text='Select ').grid(row=0, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='Select ').grid(row=1, sticky=W)
        Label(master, text='Enter ').grid(row=2, sticky=W)

        self.combo1 = Pmw.ComboBox(master,

scrolledlist_items=("Min","Avg","Custom"),
                                   entry_width=12, entry_state="disabled")
        self.combo1.component('entry').config(background='gray80')

        self.combo2 = Pmw.ScrolledListBox(master,
listbox_selectmode=MULTIPLE,
          items=('a','b','c'))
        #self.combo2.component('entry').config(background='gray80')

        self.entry1  = Entry(master, width = 12)

        self.combo1.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky=W)
        self.combo2.grid(row=1, column=1, sticky=W)
        self.entry1.grid(row=2, column=1, sticky=W)

        return self.combo1

    def apply(self):
        c1 = self.combo1.get()
        c2 = self.combo2.get()
        e1 = self.entry1.get()
        print c1, c2, e1

root = Tk()
dialog = MixedWidgets(root)




From akshata at usa.net  Mon Aug 20 16:13:49 2001
From: akshata at usa.net (Cool Frood)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 13:13:49 -0700
Subject: Importing java classes in Jython
Message-ID: <f1e9c5a1.0108201213.17a4fea2@posting.google.com>

Hi,

This is regarding importing java classes in Jython which go into the
default (unnamed) package:


/* no package defined */
class Foo
{
 ...
}

If I do the following in Jython:

import Foo

....
  fooVar = Foo()

it doesn't work. Can anybody explain why? Is it got something to do
with the fact that it first imports Foo as a class and then as a
package, and hence, thinks that Foo is a package. If so, how to import
classes in the unnamed package?


Regards,
Cool Frood


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 09:29:12 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:29:12 +0200
Subject: Static method and class method comments
References: <9jn382$lqf$1@license1.unx.sas.com> <mailman.996103958.4468.python-list@python.org> <Xns90EA6710921D8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1201359.46VatdPhlS@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> schrub:

>> Agree strongly. This will also be a problem for documentation
>> generation tools, type extraction tools and class browsers. I believe
>> it would be easy to add a contextual keyword
>> 
>>> class C:
>>>         def static foo(x, y): print "classmethod", x, y
>> 
>> 
> Not a keyword. You could just make it an optional identifier.
> If you change the existing grammar:
>    funcdef:        "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":" suite
> to:
>    funcdef: "def" [funcmodifier] funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":"
> suite
>    funcmodifier: identifier

This idea looks good in my eyes.
 
> And make it that if a funcmodifier is present, then funcname is set to
> the result of calling funcmodifier on the function.
> 
> then you get:
>    def classmethod foo(x, y):
>       print "classmethod", x, y
> 
> but you also get the flexibility to write your own modifiers:
> 
>    def protected(fn): return protectionwrapper(fn)
>    def protected foo(x, y): pass

And it seems rather powerful for a lot of cases. But it raises the 
question what to do with combining more than one funcmodifier...

My first suggestion for an easy classmethod syntax would be to just let 
the programmer omit the self parameter, thus a class method definition 
would look like this:

class A:
  def show( , a, b, c):
    print "Class A prints",a,b,c

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From a11w at SoftHome.net  Thu Aug  9 08:34:01 2001
From: a11w at SoftHome.net (Jiba)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:34:01 +0200
Subject: problem with os.path.walk
Message-ID: <3B728339.D91B7423@SoftHome.net>

Hi,

I've just experimented a problem with os.path.walk, as defined in the
posixpath.py file (other implementations may have similar behaviour) in
Python 2.0 :

def walk(top, func, arg):
    try:
        names = os.listdir(top)
    except os.error:
        return
    func(arg, top, names)
    for name in names:
            name = join(top, name)
            st = os.lstat(name)
            if stat.S_ISDIR(st[stat.ST_MODE]):
                walk(name, func, arg)

if the call to the user function "func" delete one of the file in
"names", the call to "os.lstat" will fail...

what about walking in the subdirectories BEFORE walking in the top
directory :

def walk(top, func, arg):
    try:
        names = os.listdir(top)
    except os.error:
        return
    for name in names:
            name = join(top, name)
            st = os.lstat(name)
            if stat.S_ISDIR(st[stat.ST_MODE]):
                walk(name, func, arg)
    func(arg, top, names) # Moved at the end !

Thank you for any comment,

Jiba



From guido at python.org  Sat Aug 11 21:48:50 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:48:50 GMT
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpu1ze9hhy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Fran?ois Pinard) writes:

> [Guido van Rossum]
> 
> > If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we can
> > do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against breaking
> > code this way, but maybe it's OK.  At least 'yield' is not a silent break.
> 
> My voice is surely not representative, but it is a voice nevertheless.
> When the direction is good, I prefer to see things moving forward, and
> would avoid `from __future__' here.  Yet, I also understand the concerns you
> have about not disturbing other Python users.  My opinion is that globally
> replacing `yield' by something else, using about any editor, is an easy
> challenge.  It could be advised somewhere in the transition documentation.

It's still open for debate -- the newsgroup doesn't seem to be
unanimous.

But note that future statements were intended in the first place to
avoid *silent* breakage -- where existing code suddenly means
something different.  This was the case (in some rare situations) with
nested scopes and is clearly the case with division.

Use of 'yield' as an identifier is not a silent breakage -- there has
to be at least one defining occurrence of yield when used as a
variable, function, module or class name, and that will always be a
syntax error.  This is why I proposed that, *if* there is enough
popular support, the future generators statement might be
unnecessary.  But it doesn't look likely.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug  1 16:36:03 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:36:03 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <mailman.996692948.4512.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k9qai$3io3o$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

How about meta?

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote in message
news:mailman.996692948.4512.python-list at python.org...


arg-name   pro                             con
--------------------------------------------------------------------
class      obvious meaning                 clash with keyword

Class      obvious meaning                 case sensitive

cls        BDFL's choice                   pronunciation, non-obvious

clas       closest to class                non-obvious

self       standard convention             confusion between instance
                                           and class methods

Self       follows a common convention     case sensitive
           (class name capitalized,
           instance name lower case)

type       obvious meaning                 clash with builtin

cat        cute (class and type)           cute, non-obvious acronym


I'm glad that nobody proposed `class_` yet :-)

As the first argument can immediately signify a class method if the
same name is used by everybody it would be nice if an uncontentious
name popped up.

--
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92





From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug  2 17:49:03 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 21:49:03 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996779784.8980.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kchsf$nbg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth <brueckd at tbye.com>:
| On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Donn Cave wrote:
...
|> I guess you don't want any more examples of problems type checking
|> could solve?
|
| Why would that be the case? Because the examples so far have reinforced
| the notion that today's type-checking systems can fix those problems but
| only at a tremendous cost (increased development time/effort, increased
| testing time, increased maintenance time)?

Because we have demonstrated to your satisfaction that there are
indeed common problems that type checking could solve?

The rest is only details.  You seem to have assessed that tremendous
cost by looking at my novice solution in a language you don't know at
all, and then I have some questions about your logic (type checking
needs more testing?)  But now that we are agreed that there is a domain
of problems to be solved, we can move on to consider solutions in that
domain.  Or not, but anyway that's progress.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Aug 30 20:42:57 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:42:57 +1000
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09F09@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> From: Gerson.Kurz at t-online.de [mailto:Gerson.Kurz at t-online.de]
> > From: Steven D. Majewski [mailto:sdm7g at Virginia.EDU]
> > What does:
> > 	"e1 e2 e3 e4 e5"
> > mean when more than one of those e's is a function ?
> > Can you tell which ones represent function calls if you don't
> > know the value of all of the e's ?
> 
> Well please remember what my original intent was: writing my own print
> function - er - statement. So, is "print e2 e3 e4 e5" a valid 
> statement ?
> No. Is "print e2,e3,e4,e5" ambiguous ? No. So what is the problem?
> 
> I was quite astonished about how strongly people seemed to 
> react to that
> idea. Please, my problem was that I had to modify print's 
> behaviour, and
> couldn't do so, because by going from "print" to a function, 
> you have to
> enclose the arguments in brackets.

Well, add one more person to your list. I abhor unadorned function calls -
or at least when both syntaxes are supported.

However, I'll get away from my personal feelings (print should never have
been a statement, even though I use it myself - it's only for throw-away and
debugging work).

The most important thing here is backwards compatibility. And new syntax
*must* be backwards-compatible with existing syntax. Thus the existing way
of calling functions f(arg1, arg2, ...) must be preserved.

Now we add in the ability to call a function without parentheses.

a = f(1, 2) # Is this f called with two arguments, or a tuple of length 2?
a = f       # Is this a function call, or a rebinding of a to a callable
object?

These two things are impossible to disambiguate, and as such the feature can
never become part of the language.

Letting my personal feelings back, I say thank you Guido for making this
impossible!

Tim Delaney



From bokr at accessone.com  Sat Aug 18 15:22:32 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:22:32 GMT
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net> <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com> <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net> <9ll72t01rbk@enews2.newsguy.com> <3B7E5355.675D569B@stroeder.com> <9lm70i01sn@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b7ebb7e.57886125@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:59:30 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Michael Str?der" <michael at stroeder.com> wrote in message
>news:3B7E5355.675D569B at stroeder.com...
>> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> >
>> > > > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207
>> >
>> > If something can be done with a few lines of code in the
>> > language as it is, it requires very strong motivation for that
>> > something to become a built-in language mechanism:
>>
>> I would guess that the recipe above causes some performance penalty.
>
>Why guess, when you can measure?
>
>Say const.py is like in the recipe, normal.py is an empty
>normal module, and test.py contains:
>
>import time, const, normal
>
>start = time.clock()
>const.magic = 23
>sum = 0L
>for i in range(100000):
>    sum += const.magic
>stend = time.clock()
>
>print "const : %5.2f"%(stend-start)
>
>start = time.clock()
>normal.magic = 23
>sum = 0L
>for i in range(100000):
>    sum += normal.magic
>stend = time.clock()
>
>print "normal: %5.2f"%(stend-start)
>
>Here are three runs on my box:
>
>D:\ian\good>python test.py
>const :  1.44
>normal:  1.60
>
>D:\ian\good>python test.py
>const :  1.63
>normal:  1.53
>
>D:\ian\good>python test.py
>const :  1.41
>normal:  1.53
>
>See?  No statistically significant difference penalizes the
>const module vs a normal module -- it so happens the
>loop using the const module was faster two times out
>of three, but this is indeed happenstance.
>
>Moral: never guess at performance -- it often baffles the
>intuition even of the most accomplished expert.  MEASURE.
>
I agree, but the happenstances can be separated out to a fair degree,
even if you're on line and background stuff may be happening:

(Not very elegant cutting and pasting, but here's what I like to do :)
_______________________________________________

import time, const, normal

const.magic = 23
normal.magic = 23
sumc = 0L
sumn = 0L
cdir={}
ndir={}
for i in range(100000):
    start = time.clock()
    sumc += const.magic
    stend = time.clock()
    sumn += normal.magic
    stend2 = time.clock()
    dt = int((stend-start)*1.0e9)	#nanoseconds
    if cdir.has_key(dt):
        cdir[dt] += 1
    else:
	cdir[dt] = 1

    dt = int((stend2-stend)*1.0e9)	#nanoseconds
    if ndir.has_key(dt):
        ndir[dt] += 1
    else:
	ndir[dt] = 1

print '-- const case --'
vk = [(v,k) for k,v in cdir.items()]
vk.sort()
vk.reverse()
for v,k in vk[:10]:
    print "%7d %10d" % ( v, k )

print '-- normal case --'
vk = [(v,k) for k,v in ndir.items()]
vk.sort()
vk.reverse()
for v,k in vk[:10]:
    print "%7d %10d" % ( v, k )

__________________
Result: (NT4sp3,300mhzP2,320MB ram, Python 2.1)

-- const case --
  54910      31847
  21574      31009
  20695      32685
   1883      33523
    327      30171
    119      34361
     72      35199
     54      38552
     49      39390
     28      36038
-- normal case --
  55261      30171
  26861      31009
  14372      29333
   2785      31847
    305      32685
     51      37714
     41      28495
     31      38552
     27      36876
     19      39390

But note that you don't have to run 100k trials
to get useful results, since you see the outliers
that might otherwise get averaged in. Here's for 1k:

-- const case --
    549      31009
    293      30171
    135      31847
     11      32685
      6      29333
      1    1063542
      1     364571
      1      46095
      1      35199
      1      34361
-- normal case --
    646      29333
    205      28495
    128      30171
     13      31009
      1     402285
      1      99733
      1      93028
      1      68723
      1      63695
      1      54476



From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Wed Aug 15 16:05:43 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:05:43 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
Message-ID: <001e01c125c5$aa4f6700$a9e1fea9@carol>

Working a little backwards -

Tim writes - 

>outta-this-ly y'rs  - tim

We're all looking forward to me joining you, I'm sure.

>What of it?  Nobody is claiming that the VPython folks don't want this
>change -- and reports based on experience instead of pure rhetoric have a
>certain charm due to their extreme rarity <0.9 wink>.

But that remark is to the heart of everything I have been trying
to express, and I cannot leave it unaddressed.

This is no debating game to me. I am not telling you about
languages I designed, and awards and grants and degrees.  
I am talking from hard won recent experience learning 
programming fundamentals via Python, having worked 
extensively with VPython and Numeric in the process.
 
My credentials:

http://home.netcom.com/~ajs/

That someone of middle-age, without significant prior
programming or math experience could get that much done,
is a tribute to Python and its tools - as they have stood.

There have been nibbles of interest in my work from
math pedagogues from outside the Python community.
As well there should be. It's interesting stuff.

So none of this is coming out of my hat.

We are in the Usenet realm.  My credentials are my
experience and sincerity alone. 

When a high school student studying Python gets the
nerve to post up that case sensitivity has not been an
issue to him or his classmates, what weight has it
carried vis-a-vie the Alice "studies".  I know well
the answer.  And am disappointed with it.

True, I have preceded naively. What other forces
are at play? Listen, I like PythonLabs, need to make
a living - and make many compromises in the process.
If there is more in play in some of these decisions than
language design, the good of all, etc. I could well
understand and accept.  But I can only go on 
what I am privileged to know.
  
ART 




From benc1 at today.com.au  Mon Aug  6 18:09:07 2001
From: benc1 at today.com.au (Ben C)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 15:09:07 -0700
Subject: Clearing The Interactive Python Environment
Message-ID: <8beb91f5.0108061409.49f480e8@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Sorry to bother the group with such a trivial Q but for some reason I
can not find an answer to this in the docs ... how does one 'clear'
the Python environment .... so all loaded modules and variables are
freed? (ie return the Python environment back to its initial state at
start up) I assumed it would have been in the sys module?

thanking you in advance


From markus at schabi.de  Tue Aug  7 16:55:58 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:55:58 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu> <1004690.ASKD2KPVSP@lunix.schabi.de> <3B703AF5.620B1108@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <14665424.k6j6fTUFtl@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> schrub:

>> With the automatic turning to 0/maxint, they even are limited to
>> non-negative integers. So it is impossible to use any form of
>> negative indexes, which sometimes would be nice when dealing with
>> coordinates.
> 
> Um.... you *can* use negative values in slices:
> 
>>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>> mylist[-2:-1]
> [3]
>>>> mylist [:-2]
> [1, 2]

Yes - but this means "count from the other end" instead of "go 
backwards from index 0"
 
> What you can't have, is negative indices into a list.  

And this is what I sometimes would like to have.

> Neither of
> these, however, have anything to do with the specific case being
> discussed, which is the default value used for unspecified slice
> endpoints.

Thats correct, there I wrote something different to what I thought of.

My complain was meant about the fact, that the conversion is done 
before my method is called, instead of leavint this decision to my own 
implementation.

> A list of lists is really not the same thing as a 2d-array, and is
> probably
> not suitable for use as a coordinate system.  If you really *must* do
> so, though, and your coordinates *must* include negative values, then
> you could wrap the list of lists into a class and provide an automatic
> translation.

At least when dealing with something like a "Fungespace" (i. E. you 
have small integers as indices in an array, but the offsets can get 
negative) it would be useful.

I always have to use an own class for it (as there's no builtin list 
with negative indices), but I can't use slicing syntax with this own 
class as the negative values are automatically converted to end-value 
before calling my method.

There may be other scenarios when this conversion would be useful - 
imagine a double linked ring list. Then small negative values could 
mean "come from the end" which is much faster then coming from the 
start when the list is long.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From ayelet at kagoor.com  Wed Aug 29 13:44:27 2001
From: ayelet at kagoor.com (Ayelet Snir)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:44:27 +0200
Subject: threads
Message-ID: <CMEFJKIPKEINHMGMDCEFAEJGCBAA.ayelet@kagoor.com>

Hello,

We are new users of Python, and we though you might be able to help us in a
problem we're dealing:

We have a project, written in Python and also C. Notice that we call to the
C part from Python, using SWIG.
In this project, we created 2 threads in the Python part:
While moving from C to Python, we use: PyEval_AcquireLock, and swap the
thread state. (On the other direction, we use: PyEval_ReleaseLock and swap
the state back.)
Till here, everything worked great.
We tried to start another new thread, using the method start_new. We got the
next message:
Fatal Python error: PyEval_AcquireThread : non-NULL old thread state

Thanks,
Ayelet & Michal
Kagoor Networks LTD








From GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com  Thu Aug 23 04:44:26 2001
From: GADGILP at INFOTECH.ICICI.com (GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:14:26 +0530
Subject: FW: Facilities Management software
Message-ID: <E1B786DCFA6ED511A0390008C7289E4733C739@ICICIBACK3>

hello,
 
forwarding to the list as this was only sent to me.
 
btw bart, my 1st name is prasad. what u see in mail is the address
translation by the
M$ exchange server, it puts it the other way round i guess.
 
/prasad gadgil.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bart Bartels [mailto:Bart.Bartels at vu.edu.au] 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:24 PM
To: GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH
Subject: Re: Facilities Management software


G'Day 

It is interesting to do a google search on this and related topics.  The Uni
that I work for has $A300 mil worth of building and $A??? mil in plant and
equipment, managed by less then 30 people.  Look for Facility Management
software in the Free Software/Open source movement and there is very little.
Do a Help desk search and it is overwhelmingly IT related.  There are
billions of $ worth of building out there and millions who are trying to run
and maintain them and it is hard to find software to help us. 


I did a search for CA's Advanced Help Desk and it is propriety (CA gives
nothing away) and is probably a good product.  It is IT focused.  If it was
Free Software/Open sourced the I would be able to look at it and change to
suit me (assuming I knew the programing language).  I manage buildings and
services.  I want a tool that I can afford and modify to suit my self.  I
have an itch and it seems that nobody has a back-scratcher and hence I have
started to make my own. 


Any one else itchy?  Talk to me and wE'LL build ouR OWN YOU BEAUT
BACK-SCRATCHER... pant, pant, pant 


Sorry, getting all worked up :-) 


Bart 


BTW.  a cultural question?  Which is your given name i.e. which name do
people use when they talk to you.  In the west it is the first one.  In my
case it is Bart 
  


GADGIL PRASAD /INFRA/INFOTECH wrote: 


  

hello, 


we are currently useing a sw 'Advanced Help Desk' (CA) which 
is a sort of Object Ori. Framework for the inter-organization 
helpdesk tasks. The IT req is currently automated. Though 
FM will also be interesting to be added to it's tasks. 


I am more involved in customisation of this OO framework sw 
and from what I have seen, has a fairly clean design. 


this effort seems interesting, if only to learn python to me. 
btw AHD uses, rdbms in backend, a java OR web-clnt to connect 
to the AHD server to log calls update them etc. 


/psg



. 

-- 


"This e-mail message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally 
privileged information. It should not be used by anyone who is not the 
original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, 
please delete it immediately and notify the sender. The recipient acknowledges 
that ICICI or its subsidiaries and associated companies (including ICICI Bank),
as the case may be, are unable to exercise control or ensure or guarantee the 
integrity of/over the contents of the information contained in e-mail 
transmissions and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this 
message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the 
message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly with 
due authority of ICICI or its subsidiaries and associated companies (including 
ICICI Bank), as applicable. Before opening any attachments please check them 
for viruses and defects." 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010823/193fb2ae/attachment.html>

From heikowu at ceosg.de  Mon Aug 27 17:44:41 2001
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:44:41 +0200
Subject: ZOPE Generic User Folders
Message-ID: <01082723444100.01915@phoenix>

Hi all!

I know I'm actually asking this on the wrong list, but:

Does anyone know of a generic user-folder implementation (such as 
exUserFolder, etc.) which runs under Zope 2.4.0? :)

I've found none such so far!

All of them are written for 2.3.x or backward, and they complain about re 
(that would be easy to fix) and sooner or later hang the system...

Anyone know of a solution? (Otherwise I'll have to write my own. :))

-- 
Yours sincerely,

	Heiko Wundram



From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug 24 22:35:00 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:35:00 GMT
Subject: Win95: "Corrupt intallation detected." - cause known, solution needed
References: <mailman.998681019.21365.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b870ad3.381269847@wa.news.verio.net>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:22:39 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Szczepan Ho?yszewski]
>> I just downloaded Python-2.1.1.exe installer and, guess, I'm getting
>> that "Corrupt installation detected." box. I've already found out
>> that it has something to do with administrator privileges on WinNT/2000.
>
>In the sense that *if* you're running NT/2K, it's possible to get a *bogus*
>"Corrupt installation detected" msg from the 2.1.1 installer simply because
>you don't have sufficient privilege.  The new 2.2a2 installer should not
>have that problem (if you want to be a daring alpha tester, try that
>instead!).
>
>That's not a possible cause on 95/98/ME, though.  It's far more likely on
>the latter that the download is in fact corrupt.  If you tried downloading
>using Netscape, try IE instead, or vice versa, or if you use ftp make sure
>you use binary mode.
>
>A size check sometimes settles this issue:
>
>C:\Code>dir Python-2.1.1.exe
>
> Volume in drive C is HOMEDRIVE
> Volume Serial Number is 2637-18E7
> Directory of C:\Code
>
>PYTHON~1 EXE     6,310,277  07-20-01 12:00p Python-2.1.1.exe
>
>If your Python-2.1.1.exe isn't exactly 6,310,277 bytes, it's definitely
>corrupt.
>
But an md5 check settles it even more definitely ;-). IMHO any file published
for downloading should have the md5 digest and size on the download page (size
more for estimating download time than integrity checking).

As you I'm sure you know, the md5 for Python-2.1.1.exe can be found at
    http://www.python.org/2.1.1/ page:

39ef54d3e29ea402c8b693b4f3fedd4a Python-2.1.1.exe

(Of course that doesn't prove that a corrupted file wasn't put into the archive.
For belt and suspenders, I guess you could do md5's for individual
critical files within an archive as well, if you don't trust the
archiving/dearchiving process. Even that will just help identify the point
of corruption, but at least we'll know where the culprit must be ;-)




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 21:24:40 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:24:40 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question!
References: <mailman.997131131.27927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VnHb7.52882$WD1.2755469@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

<ksunair at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997131131.27927.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> I am new to Python and interested to develop a new website using only
> Python. I would like to know, few things
>
> 1. Is there a simple example out there to print 'Hello World' on web?
> like the one in PHP
> <html><body><?php echo 'hello World' ?> </body></html>
>
> 2. Is there a tutorial or documentation available anywhere on the
> net, how to use MySql with Python?
>
Well I can answer your first question: see

    http://pydish.holdenweb.com:8080/DeptHome/python

(which is itself a pure Python web) for a small CGI server in Python. I
think you'll be surprised how small. Run that from the same directory as an
index.html file containing your favored HTML page, and access is at

    http://127.0.0.1:8000/

I don't use MySQL.

its-me-back-see-ly y'rs  - steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/






From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 16:49:58 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:49:58 -0400
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMENBLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[andrew]
> in interactive interpreter, i get these results:
> 
> >>> 21.0 /5
> 4.2000000000000002
> >>> 22.0 /5
> 4.4000000000000004
> >>> 23.0/5
> 4.5999999999999996
> >>> 24.0/5
> 4.7999999999999998
> >>>

I'm glad your Python is working correctly <wink>.  See

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/tut/node14.html




From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Thu Aug  9 10:54:40 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:54:40 +0100
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
Message-ID: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>

Can anyone advise me the best way to iterate through a list and deleting 
elements that don't meet a certain criteria.

If I use:
for x in list:
	if x > y:
		del x

obviously that just deletes a reference to a list element

I also can't do:

for x in range(len(list)):
	if list[x] < y:
		del list[x]

cos if I actually delete anything I will miss some list elements and run 
off the end of the list.

I have been using the following methods:

toDel = []
for x in range(len(list)):
	if list[x] < y:
		toDel.append(x)
toDel.reverse()
for x in toDel:
	del list[x]

(blech)
or

x = 0
while x < len(list):
	if list[x] < y:
		del list[x]
	else:
		x += 1

Thats the nicest way I can think of, but I was just wondering if there 
is a prefered idiom or if anyone can suggest a nicer way. It is a 
routine I seem to use alot.

cheers
Blobby
	



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Aug 23 10:18:56 2001
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:18:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: enhancing slicing
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de> <9m31fp$27s$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns9106996912D4Aduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk wrote in news:9m31fp$27s$1 at thorium.cix.co.uk:

>> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
>> v[5 # 2]
>> Extract 2 elements starting at 5: [ v[5], v[6] ]. Equivalent to v[5:5+2]
> 
> I don't think # is right, because it's already used for comments.  But 
> perhaps :][: would do the trick.  So it'd be v[5 :][: 2].  It's more 
> complex, but looks nice.  And doesn't introduce any new punctuation into 
> the language.  Shall I start on the PEP?

What is wrong with just defining yourself a function to do this? Not 
everything has to be done with operators:
   def enhslice(seq, low, len):
       return seq[low:low+len]
seems to do everything you are asking for, and has the benefit of being 
available today, and not complicating the language.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?


From relfx at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  8 06:47:08 2001
From: relfx at hotmail.com (Relfx)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 03:47:08 -0700
Subject: I want to learn as much as possible
Message-ID: <2209a682.0108080247.565b6d13@posting.google.com>

I'm new to python but I have heard alot of good things about python.
I am currently a user mirc the internet relay chat client. But it is 
difficult for me to script in irc with python alot of the clients
don't
support python and the one client that does it has alot of bugs. 

  If there are any irc users out there that script in python running
on windows98 I would really like some instance in buil;ding a irc
client of my own entirely in python. Is this possible? And what all
would I need ot achieve this goal? I have heard some people talk about
python active state version. I currently have python version 2.1.1 is
this all I would need or will python active state version for windows
be more of a necessity?

Relfx


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Aug 22 20:32:13 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:32:13 +1000
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8BF09EF6@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

>     Paul> Is there any particular reason Python uses 
> reference counting
>     Paul> garbage collection (which leaks memory if there's circular
>     Paul> structure) instead of Lisp-style garbage 
> collection?  As Python

> needs dictate).  I believe the main reason Python doesn't use garbage
> collection for the whole kit-n-kaboodle is that garbage collection
> introduces non-determinism in the actual time an object gets 
> reclaimed.  A

I believe another major reason is that adding "real" GC would cause problems
for C extensions. All Python's cycle collector does is break the links
forming the cycle - the reference counting semantics then handle the rest.

Java has a "real" GC - and this often leads to problems - in particular,
programs being relatively fast until a memory threshold is reached - and
then the GC starts kicking in and things really start slowing down in a
non-deterministic way. Python never suffers from that problem - whilst a
large data structure may need to be collected all at once, you at least
*know* that that is what is going to happen, and it will happen the same way
with every run of the program (assuming the same inputs).

In tests people have done by replacing Python's reference counting by
Boehm's collector (reported to this newsgroup) there have been marked speed
advantages to reference counting in most cases. This is empirical evidence
that reference counting works well *for Python* in most cases.

There will always be tradeoffs. For example, compare the two equivalent
loops:

for i in xrange(10000):
	s = str(i) + str(i)

for (var i = 0; i < 10000; i++)
{
	var s = Integer.toString(i) + Integer.toString(i);
}

In the case of the Python program, the memory use is very low - the same
memory locations will be reused many times.

For the Java program, lots of garbage will build up, probably eventually
being released in one big go at the end.

The Python loop may (possibly) run slower, but the cost is amortised over
time.

Oh - and if you want "real" GC in Python, simply use Jython. I'm using it
right now for prototyping a Swing application - it's truly wonderful.

Tim Delaney



From dirck at pacbell.net  Fri Aug  3 01:07:53 2001
From: dirck at pacbell.net (Dirck Blaskey)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 22:07:53 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996714310.2991.python-list@python.org> <3b68b5ce.1031682601@wa.news.verio.net> <5e8bd451.0108021110.3325bc8d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6c8b7eb9.0108022107.7898fc50@posting.google.com>

How about this for an alternate logo:

http://www.pythonet.org/resting2.gif

kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks) wrote in message news:<5e8bd451.0108021110.3325bc8d at posting.google.com>...
> What is all this babble about democracy, dictators and what / should
> return? Now, i finally bring up a really important decision to be made
> on a very serious issue and nothing... all while you fight over pep
> this pep that. I DEMAND action now! I want all our snakes changed
> immediately to bunny rabbits! Who voted for the snake!? Why didn't we
> get a vote!? Was it that damned Tim Peters again! God! I know Guido
> said, "Hey dude, what about snakes?!" and Time said, "yeah, like
> whatever man...." (they were in california at the time i think)
> 
> And now here we are 10 years on with all these slithering snakes
> instead of cute bunnies or penguins like linux (oh to have those
> cuties!).
> 
> 
> Hmmmph!
> 
> love, peace, and cream cheese.
> 
> ps. oh yeah <wink>
> 
> determined-to-be-the-only-python-user-that-doesn't-imitate-tim's-signoff-ly
> 
> kevin parks
> seoul, korea


From kraydl at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  3 12:36:07 2001
From: kraydl at hotmail.com (Buzz B.)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 09:36:07 -0700
Subject: Number precision
Message-ID: <630035fe.0108030836.3a27647@posting.google.com>

Excuse the rookie question:

x=50
x/100 results in 0 instead of .5

Now I can do:
y = float(x)/100  to get the correct answer

Is there a way to predefine x as a floating?


From brueckd at tbye.com  Thu Aug 30 10:55:52 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:55:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should appl
 y to *nix, too)
In-Reply-To: <217F6DFA440ED111ACDA00A0C906B00601AAE702@arsenic.rcp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108300737210.24636-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Michael Abbott wrote:

> (I'm not on python-list; evidently need to change this.  In fact, where is
> this list?  It doesn't appear on http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html

Hi Michael,
It is on that page, you just have to look way down towards the bottom.

> This is the source in my version of Python: the interpreter comes up
> reporting
>
> Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

So maybe it was an indentation bug fixed between 2.1 and 2.1.1. I'll go
look at the CVS look on SF.

> I don't understand the solution you're describing, unless process_request is
> now guaranteed to call close_request.

Why do you need to call close_request at all? The socket gets closed
automagically when your handler finishes. (Personally I'd prefer that the
call to close_request *does* happen just so it's explicit, but it works
either way).

> The 2.1.1 solution you quote doesn't look right to me, in particular cleanup
> and error handling in the presence of a separate thread looks doubtful.

As I mentioned above, missing the call to close_request isn't really
causing you much pain - the real problem was the incorrect indentation in
your version of SocketServer.py.

No doubt your solution will work just fine; I was just pointing out that
there's probably a much easier way since, for the most part, SocketServer
works just fine. For example, assuming you've fixed the indentation
problem, your only other problem was the missing call to handle_error in
the separate thread, right? So (untested):

class YourServer(ThreadingMixIn, HTTPServer):
  def finish_request(self, request, client_address):
    try:
      self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
    except:
      self.handle_error(request, client_address)
    self.close_request(request) # Just for good measure

That's it, 7 lines of code and you're done.
Have fun,
-Dave




From rcspython at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 15:12:32 2001
From: rcspython at yahoo.com (rcspython at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:12:32 -0000
Subject: Subclassing a win32com.client.Dispatch() Object?
Message-ID: <9lbt74+ni9j@eGroups.com>

Can this be done usign win32com?
I have win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS)

I need something like 

class myclass(?????):#What values are used for ?????
  def __init__(????):
    #What code goes here?

myobj = myclass(win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents
("ACOMCLASS",ANEVENTCLASS))

Or something like this...

I have tried everything I can think of with no luck.
I'm sure I am making a stupid mistake and would appreciate any
help.

Cheers!
Ron




From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Aug  4 18:08:24 2001
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:08:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Tkinter ANSI color support
Message-ID: <9khroo$1igk$2@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>

I need to have a text frame in a Tkinter window that can display
color text as tagged by ANSI color codes.

My first pass was to parse the string in python, but that was _way_
too slow. So I wrote an extension module to parse the string and
pass back tuples of (tag, text) and that helps alot. But truth is
it is still too slow.

I am using a Tkinter.Text widget which has alot of very cool
functionality (ie, once the text is tagged, I could change the color
of ALL of that text with one command) which I will never use.
Maybe at this point I am just using the wrong display widget.

I hope I am not reinventing fire here. Any pointers?



From SSchukat at dspace.de  Wed Aug 15 02:48:43 2001
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:48:43 +0100
Subject: Need Help with COM
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD34@newsintern.dspace.de>

The object you are using is returing a parameter by reference. 
Since this is not supportted in Python MarkH uses tuples to 
return out values in COM calls. So in your case you should try
something like this: 

o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1)[0].Caption

to access the first return value which is probably your
object.


  Stefan Schukat


> "Mark_Pryor" <erlangen72 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:sVie7.10397$ZM2.950970 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hi,
> Michael A. Howard wrote in message <9lc9t0$fo4$1 at news.apple.com>...
> >I'm coming to Python from VB and trying to understand how 
> the COM stuff
> >works.
> >
> >I have a COM server (not written by me) that supports in VB the call
> >oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
> >Which returns the caption of this item as I can see it from 
> the object
> >browser in VB
> >
> >The same call in python returns:
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> >AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'Caption'
> >
> >If I use Excel as an example i.e.
> >o.Application.ActiveMenuBar.Menus.Item(1).Caption
> >I get   u'&File'
> >Which is also what I get in VB (well &File anyway)
> >
> >So what am I doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks for the response but I get the same error message 
> using that example.
> 
> Unfortunately the COM object is a black box (no source) to me 
> so I can't
> change it.
> 
> Mike
> 
> Either write the call like this (to handle the tuple):
> ( junk, mycap ) = oAppPC.AppItem.Properties.Item(1).Caption
> 
> or redesign the Item method to pass the index by value!
> You might have to switch the vars above.
> 
> hth,
> Mark Pryor
> pgp KeyID: 0x1A966EC5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Aug  8 10:06:27 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 10:06:27 -0400
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk>
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

> Piotr Legiecki wrote:

> > I'v created dictionary named d={}. Its structure is like this: {key,
> > [list]} I'd like to print all values stored in 'd'. What is the easiest
> > way to do it?

[Mark Robinson]

> you might try something like:

> for key in d.keys():
> 	print 'key:'
> 	for value in d[key]:
> 		print value

It is often nice to do:

        import pprint
        pprint.pprint(d)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Aug  6 08:04:49 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:04:49 -0400
Subject: [OT] ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action t aken. (fwd)
References: <mailman.997080731.16523.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eHvb7.17518$5j7.1153191@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

It means that one of the recipients of the Python mailing list has a
brain-dead mail filter. I tries communicating with the guys who ran one of
these once, and the response seemed to be "sorry, we can't do anything about
it".

Censorship is bad. Uncontrollable censorship is terrible!

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997080731.16523.python-list at python.org...
> Hello!
>
> I am sorry for offtopic, but what does it mean??? What is "sensitive
> content"? "Bad words" (I do not remeber using them or have AI became
> one of them lately?) or viruses?
>
> Roman.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:26:48 +0100
> From: Virusscan <PDC-DSPACE-SA at dspace.de>
> To: 'Roman Suzi' <rnd at onego.ru>
> Subject: ScanMail Message: To Sender,
>      sensitive content found and action t aken.
>
> Trend SMEX Content Filter has detected sensitive content.
>
> Place = \Python Mailingliste
> Sender = Roman Suzi
> Subject = Re: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
> Delivery Time = August 05, 2001 (Sunday) 22:26:47
> Policy = dspace
> Action on this mail = Quarantine message
>
> Warning message from administrator:
> Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail.
>
>




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  2 15:06:07 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:06:07 -0500
Subject: Zope
In-Reply-To: <08da7.3095$e%4.90891@news3.oke.nextra.no>
References: <08da7.3095$e%4.90891@news3.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <15209.42143.44408.771936@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roar> I've resently begun to learn Zope (and therefore Phyton). My
    Roar> question: Is there any newsgroup aimed at Zope?

No newsgroup that I'm aware of, but there is always zope at zope.org.  Check
www.zope.org for subscription details.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug  3 17:09:01 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:09:01 GMT
Subject: Using Multiple Constructors
References: <3b6b0d1e_1@news.chartertn.net> <3b6b0ffa_1@news.chartertn.net>
Message-ID: <NpEa7.66898$EP6.15426305@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Mikhael Loo" <mikhael at lib-sys.com> wrote in message
news:3b6b0ffa_1 at news.chartertn.net...
> I just had another Idea,
> Perhaps what I need to do is sub class objects that only have
constructors.
> Is this the best way?

If you want to override methods, then yes.

>
>    -Mikhael
> "Mikhael Loo" <mikhael at lib-sys.com> wrote in message
> news:3b6b0d1e_1 at news.chartertn.net...
> > How do you use multiple constructors in a python class

You do not.  Python != C++  .  You can initiate differently accoring
to type of arg given to __init__.

Terry J. Reedy





From whats_really_hot at hotmail.com  Sat Aug  4 13:43:04 2001
From: whats_really_hot at hotmail.com (whats_really_hot)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:43:04 +0300
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
Message-ID: <9khc3c$qje$1@usenet.otenet.gr>

Hello to the community of python programmers. I am a newbie in this field
and generally in programming, so I have chosen, after reading many posts
with proposals for languages for new programmers, python. So, now I am
reading "Learning Python" from O'REILLY and Mark Lutz & David Ascher, but
still I have some unanswered questions because of my stupidity or book's
incapability of explaining everything in an understanding manner. So, now I
begin a series of query-posts (which I hope that they won't be many, because
then I will be proved stupid enough to be flammed).

My first questions are:

1. The interactive command line is really a module with the name "__main__".
The command dir() also, return the names of the current namespace of the
respective active module. Among these (i.e. names) is always the "__name__"
name, which is the name of the current module. So, why when I type dir() in
the interactive command line "__name__" is returned in spite of  "__main__",
which is indeed the name of the current module, i.e. the interactive command
line?
2. What does the command "cat" do? I suspect that it begins the creation of
a new module, right?

Thanks for ur time and attention, because I admit that this is a huge post.
Anyway, I look forward to ur answers and prepare for my impending questions
in other posts.

That's for now.

Mail me: whats_really_hot at hotmail.com





From msp at tpg.com.au  Tue Aug 14 02:51:41 2001
From: msp at tpg.com.au (Michael Palm)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:51:41 +0800
Subject: Does anyone have color curses for DOS/Win python
Message-ID: <3B78CA7D.F194D9CB@tpg.com.au>

I want to use curses on DOS/Windows so the guys who currently run
text-mode apps on Linux
can run them locally. The only wrapper for pdcurses I can find is from
around 1994 and doesn't
wrap color functions, even though they are included in the pdcurses dll.
included with it.

To save having do it myself, does anyone have a version with the color
functions included?

thanx




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Aug 21 22:48:25 2001
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:48:25 -0700
Subject: Pythonwin does not run on my machine 
In-Reply-To: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010822002912Z-52306@emi1.EMI>
Message-ID: <000a01c12ab4$eaf8ac50$445d4540@D1XYVL01>

> I had installed python21 and I have no problem running the Python.exe
> but PythonW.exe(Pythonwin) does not run at all.
> Am I missing out something ?? My computer is window NT

pythonwin and pythonw are completely different. There should be an
application called pythonwin.exe on your system somewhere. That is what
you want to run. 




From wware at world.std.com  Thu Aug 23 09:23:11 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:23:11 GMT
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <GIIvun.6EC@world.std.com>

Peter Hansen (peter at engcorp.com) wrote:
> An answer from a different point of view is "why bother?"
> Python is already "fast enough" for many applications -- one
> might even say "for most applications for which it is 
> used", and there is little interest in improving its
> speed compared to improvements in other areas.

This might be phrased a little differently. Python programmers are
not entirely unconcerned with speed. There are plenty of libraries
where internal are implemented in C (or for Jython, Java), and writing
C extensions is easy where such libraries don't yet exist.

Most cases where you want big performance improvements are situations
where a particular small set of operations is taking up most of the
time. If those operations are coded as a C extension, then you don't
need to rewrite the other stuff that is already debugged and working,
and you get all the benefits of staying in the Python environment.

-- 
-----------------------------------+---------------------
 22nd century: Esperanto, geodesic | Will Ware
 domes, hovercrafts, metric system | wware at world.std.com


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Aug 20 11:48:26 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:48:26 -0400
Subject: __del__ ignores exception in 2.1?
References: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr> <ac677656.0108171000.38f6266b@posting.google.com> <3B7DAE14.710D5C70@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <uy9oeybp1.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Vassilis Virvilis <vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr> writes:

> Tom Good wrote:
> > 
> > From the Python 2.1 docs, section on __del__() :
> > 
> > "Warning: due to the precarious circumstances under which __del__()
> > methods are invoked, exceptions that occur during their execution are
> > ignored, and a warning is printed to sys.stderr instead."
> > 
> So it is documented behaviour, good. Thanks.

And BTW, documented at least as far back as 1.5.2 (probably earlier,
but that's the oldest stuff I've got handy).  There are also warnings
about the potential for globals to have already been deleted before
__del__ is called.  See section 3.3.1 in any version (at least back to
1.5.2) of the language reference.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 29 15:11:59 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:11:59 -0400
Subject: RFC: Additional functionality for PyUnit
In-Reply-To: <efd753ca.0108291020.5a76ef01@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEMILIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[MikeK]
> ...
> If PyUnit were to be extended to add a 'globalSetUp' method, run once
> before all other test methods in the test case, and a
> 'globalTearDown', run once after all other test methods in the test
> case, that are in addition to the currently-supported 'setUp' and
> 'tearDown' methods, I'd be very happy.
>
> Or am I missing something that would already give me what I want?

Only 0.49 joking, since PyUnit runs tests in alphabetical order, a quick
hack is to add

    def test_AAAAA_global_setup
and
    def test_zzzzz_global_teardown

methods.

but-that's-only-if-you-want-something-that-works-right-away<wink>-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Mon Aug  6 05:36:20 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:36:20 GMT
Subject: wget like module
References: <9klggu$17n$1@news.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <m33d758r7e.fsf@localhost.localdomain>

I am working on my own urllib and socket module, called httpp.py and
socketp.py, cookie support not really transparent.. yet, working on
something like browserp.py or so :-) 

Meanwhile I am using my socketp and httpp to access yahoo accounts,
can be found at http://flognat.myip.org/hacks/, the code in Yahoo.py
should show you how to use cookies easily.

        /Andy

/ "Miki Tebeka" <tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il> wrote:
| Hello All,
| 
| I'm looking for a module that grabs urls (like httpget or wget) and can
| handle cookies.
| 
| Any pointers?
| 
| Thanks.
| 
| Miki.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:06:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:06:03 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
news:psoitg1md4l.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
> anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:
>
> > Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
> > > You didn't respond to my comments on potential for performance gains.
> > > Can I assume that I scored a point?  ;-)
> >
> > Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
> > improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
> > consideration.
>
> It could be pretty expensive to move all of your code to a faster language
if
> you discover that Python is not good enough.  Sometimes you can write C
> extensions for the slow parts, but in some cases you will have to start
over.

Applications whose "performance bottleneck" is _100%_ of their code?!
Never heard of any such thing.  10% to 20% seems to be common.  What
counter-examples do you have in mind?


> Don't get me wrong, Python is a great language and is useful for many
types of
> applications, but it is ridiculous to say that there aren't a significant
> number of applications for which it does not have the required
performance.

Not by itself, surely -- but, when using Python together with lower-level
languages for that 10% to 20% of code whose speed really matters, I
can't easily think of examples.  Maybe if you have a *code-side* constraint,
e.g. in an embedded device where you must burn a small ROM device,
rather than a speed one -- but then you should look into a threaded
interpreter (Forth and the like), which tends to give you the greatest
bang-for-the-bit -- an issue which doesn't have much (or anything) to
do with the 'potential for performance gain' due to static-typing.


Alex





From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Thu Aug  2 13:19:15 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:19:15 -0700
Subject: Is this an Intended behaviour of __getattr__?
References: <uu787.103805$ph7.16107665@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <3B698B93.2F954898@ccvcorp.com>

Grace wrote:

> I'm a bit confused with this:
>
> class Node:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self._next=None
>     def __getattr__(self,attr):
>         if attr=='next':
>             if self._next is not None:
>                 return self._next
>             else:
>                 self._next=Node()
>                 return self._next
>         print attr,"was called..."
>         error=3/0  #supposed to raise exception
>         raise AttributeError
>
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     f=Node()
>     links=[f.next,f.next,f.next.next,f.next.next]
>     for each in links:
>         print each
>     print f.errorPlz
>
> And this yields exactly,
>

[snipping output]

>
> Why did it suck up all ZeroDivisionErrors while outputting the "was
> called..." messages? Special case with magic methods? Is this an intended
> behaviour? Then what is the exact process/mechanism?
>
> Thanks in advance.

IIRC, when searching for attributes, __getattr__() is only called when the
attribute is not found in any of the usual places.  It's a last-ditch save,
rather than a total redefine, in this sense.  Since the interpreter is able
to find attributes for __str__(), et al, it uses those and does not pass
through __getattr__().

Of  course, I could be totally wrong.  :)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 09:31:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:31:50 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999177586.6959.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mo3k6030th@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Kemp Randy-W18971" <Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999177586.6959.python-list at python.org...
> Oh, Alex.  ME is just another marketing ploy for Uncle Bill to get rich,
> just as XP is.

Well, only in the sense in which any product of a commercial firm
is "a ploy for" (its stockholders) "to get rich":-).  ME *is* too
buggy -- I'm really disappointed that they stuffed it with new
and none-too-stable features rather than making this last of the
old DOS lineage a stable/bugfix release.  As for XP, no opinion
yet on the technical merits -- we'll see how the consumers feel
about its new registration requirements.

The good news is that Python runs well on both, anyway:-).


> A friend of mind builds custom made PC's for a living, and
> so many of her customer's have problems with ME.

Yes, as I said, it *is* way buggy.  Part of it of course, as for
any other new OS release, may be buggy _drivers_ for strange pieces
of hardware -- hopefully the producers of said HW will fix those
specific parts:).  And, fortunately, _Python_ runs well:-).


> And with XP, you have to
> register everything before you use it -- via phone or internet.  I just
got
> a new version of Word, and it gives me 50 times to register, before it
boots
> me out of word.

Don't fall for the usual MS marketing idiocy -- the 'XP' adjective
used on Office and that used on Windows don't necessarily have
anything to do with each other:-).  (Python, of course, happily
runs with either, or both:-).

At least, this should help test the iconoclastic thesis that
widespread low-grade piracy has actually *helped* Microsoft
by making their products widespread -- now that Joe Consumer
needs to find a crack on the net and apply it before he can
give his cousin a pirate copy of the latest MS products, as
opposed to just copying down a few digits' worth of code, said
thesis is going to be *sorely* tested indeed:-).  Of course,
this doesn't apply to Python, since it's free -- nobody needs
to pirate it!-)


> Now Unix on the other hand, and Linux in particular.
> That's a good, solid machine.

Pretty good, although I'm getting convinced that solidity is
NOT priority number one for most consumer-grade distributions
these days (Debian may be an exception, but, IS it consumer
grade?) -- rather, a zillion flashy features appear to be
much more important.  Not as much as for MS operating systems,
no doubt, but there are similarities.

Among the similarities is that Python runs excellently well
on all of these, of course.  But maybe my attempts to keep
this conversation seemingly on-topic are becoming too
transparent?-)

I'm putting Linux on my desktop boxes at home, but OpenBSD
on my router/firewall/proxy machine sitting between the home
LAN and ADSL... I suspect I won't have cause to regret that.
(I'm also pretty sure that Python will port to it without
problems, of course:-).

However, while I *could* give the CD's of Mandrake, RedHat
or Suse to my cousin to install on his PC without more qualms
than I'd have giving him those of a MS operating system (at
least as long as said PC doesn't have some darned winmodem
or whatever that's not Linux-supported, of course:-), giving
him the OpenBSD CD's appears unfeasible (and, I suspect, the
same would hold for Debian).  Fortunately, no problem or
qualms giving him Python -- CP4E, remember?-)

> And has anyone tried the free Star Office from Sun?  It gives
> Microsoft a run for their money.

Sure, that's what I installed after due deliberation on
the new PC of my girlfriend's parents -- the savings were
just too much wrt MS Office (and of course I would not
consider piracy!), even though some doubts did remain.
They're pretty happy with Star, anyway.

The doubts come mainly from Python considerations - it's
very easy to drive/automate Microsoft Office via Python,
but I still haven't managed to do the same for StarOffice;
if it does have COM at all, it's a strange object model,
and I can't find good docs, examples, etc.  Admittedly I
haven't looked very deeply.  But maybe they're not COM-
centric *because* they're portable... it's easier for MS
(they do have COM on the Mac too, although I think it's
not available to 3rd parties).  Maybe I should look into
the Java (Jython) side of things instead.

The lack of widespread COM is Linux's major defect wrt
MS's systems -- let's hope XPCOM makes it (but with
Mozilla so late/buggy/huge one sometimes gets doubts),
because the several sort-of-componentization schemes
on Unixish machines definitely don't cut it.  Or maybe
Mono can help Linux &c jump over the COM stage and
right into the .Net Framework... whatever!  Python will
surely grow to take advantage of that when needed...


> And I run Windows 98,
> second edition, at home (which is really a bug release of Windows 95).
The
> only good Windows version for the consumer to run.

I think you're right on this -- on the DOS lineage, W98 2nd
edition is apparently the least-buggy; it still has its
instabilities (more than any of the Linux ones I complained
about, above), but all the others are worse.  /2000 and /XP
may not be too hard for the consumer, though, particularly
the latter -- cost may however be an issue.

But Python helps on any and all of those boxes anyway!-)


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:42:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:42:46 +0200
Subject: What is a Function?
References: <20010817033349.14357.00003437@mb-mi.aol.com> <9lijhf01013@enews3.newsguy.com> <3B7D2405.50606@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9ljn6102ej8@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3B7D2405.50606 at herts.ac.uk...
> Come on alex, you can go into more detail than that!! We all know real
> programmers program in binary anyway ;)

Sure, but I did already show the binary-string form of
c.co_code, so...


Alex





From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug 22 20:07:49 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:07:49 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <915a998f.0108220858.3f062acd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pPXg7.126372$EP6.34910440@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Hamish Lawson" <hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:915a998f.0108220858.3f062acd at posting.google.com...
> While on this subject, would it be an idea to make built-in types
> callable, so that you just call an object without caring whether it
> was a function/method or a simple type?

Yes it would be an idea.  Why would you want such?
Would it be useful? or would it encourage bad programming?, that is
the question.

> Thus:
> x = 10
> def y():  return 10
> x()
> y()

I presume you are proposing a default "def __call__(self): return
self" for all objects.
Note that tacking parens on literals would violate current Python
syntax: ie,
10(), 'ab'(), [1,2,3](), etc are currently seen as errors.  *All*
other methods are accessed through '.method' notation, which is legal
for literals.

Terry J. Reedy





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 02:56:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:56:22 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997572559.3886.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4a9hwq.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5h650j8o@enews4.newsguy.com> <9l7kq5$6fn$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9l7tm10rt@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:9l7kq5$6fn$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <9l5h650j8o at enews4.newsguy.com>,
> Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Premature optimization is the root of all evil" (Kernighan, I believe).
>
> Knuth.
>
> In return for this little correction, would you please explain in simple
> words exactly what it is that you're talking about?  I'm reasonably
> adept at understanding plain classes, but you've been going way over my
> head here.  I suspect other readers of c.l.py would like to understand,

I had posted a simple solution to a problem "how do I build an _empty_
object of some class bypassing the class's __init__ (which does a lot of
work) so I can then manually copy the relevant parts of the state":

def empty_copy(object):
    class Temp: pass
    result = Temp()
    result.__class__ = object.__class__
    return result

Guido explained that this would not work any more in 2.2 or a bit later,
because the assignment to result.__class__ would be eventually
disallowed.  Now, this is not a big problem for this particular case: not
only will there be a new class special method called __new__ that makes
an empty instance, but even today there are workable alternatives, such
as "return new.instance(object.__class__)" (it has not been discussed
what happens to module new in 2.2 and later, but it's a rather "deep
internals" module, so nobody will be surprised if it changes).  However,
there are other use-cases for "changing the __class__ of instance x" --
none used very frequently, but, some of us believe, rather a significant
Python feature (Guido isn't very convinced of the latter point).

In the ensuing discussion, another related issue emerged.  Today, a
Python class is a mutable object; if and when you need to change it,
it's as easy as changing any other object -- and all instances of the
class are implicitly "updated" when the class object is.  This is not
used very often, either, but the fact that any class object CAN be so
updated is also significant: it may be used to fix a running program
with new code without huge investment in infrastructure as would be
needed to perform similar tasks in a less-dynamic language.

However, some classes will be unchangeable in 2.2 and/or later, and
Guido plans to make unchangeability the *default*, requiring users
to explicitly set class attribute __dynamic__ to 1 to make a class
changeable (there may be some help: the default __dynamic__ for
classes in a module may be a module attribute, and a class may
inherit it from ancestors).  Having optimization as the default, with
dynamicity a special-case requiring explicit request, feels like more
of a C++ attitude than a Python one to several of us (although there
are Pythonic precedents, such as local variables of a function).  Such
an optimization may be deemed "way-premature", as it occurs at
language-design time:-).  If dynamism is used to fix potential bugs
in a running server, for example, it's hard to see how the user may
be required to predict in advance which classes he's writing have
bugs and thus may need to be updated on the fly.  Having the
possibility of turning class changeability explicitly *off* sounds like
a great optimization -- but, some of us feel, it should be the
general case that's the default, optimization working when explicitly
requested, rather than vice versa.  (I.e., NOT as in C++'s "virtual"
for methods and repeated inheritance, which many, though not all,
think of as a C++ misfeature).

Guido's counter-argument is that classes that need to be dynamic
will emerge in testing, while having dynamism as the default might
lead to it being used wantonly and making later optimization hard.
On this issue as well as unchangeability of __class__, he seems to
be very motivated towards performance/optimization possibilities,
which may explain the eerie C++ parallels (performance was always
paramount in C++'s design, while, so far, it doesn't seem to have
had all that strong an influence on Python).

He may be right, of course (he generally is) -- perhaps we've all
grown used to a Python that's in good part defined by dynamic
possibilities that "just happened" to fall out of implementation
techniques and were never a design-intent (if somebody knows
the design-intent, it should be him:-), and giving up on those
will have a general benefit in terms of performance increase.  I
still believe that when I need performance I code or recode in
C++, or in C, and I'd like Python to stay simple and wonderful.
But many (particularly those who have not exploited the dynamic
possibilities, are not familiar with C++, etc) may agree with Guido.

It will surely be a very different language when this type/class
unification thing gets finished...!


Alex





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 18:21:15 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:21:15 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lamme017m7@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.997806503.15832.python-list@python.org> <9lc0vj01qqj@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nj92r.a5u.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:14:26 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> pisze:

> What makes you think it HAS to be "pick one" when many languages
> have neither (C++, say) and several have both (Ruby, Smalltalk
> [with 'becomes'], Dylan...)?

IIRC Smalltalk's 'becomes' is a horrible hack which used to be easy
to implement where it appeared for the first time because of an extra
indirection in all objects, but requires scanning the whole world
changing all references to the given object in modern implementations.
And it causes a disaster when an important object like nil is replaced.

So maybe it is possible, but it's certainly a bad fit to the
Smalltalk's object model, discouraged and maybe deprecated.

Disclaimer: I never used Smalltalk and may remember wrong.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 24 11:11:31 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:11:31 -0500
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
In-Reply-To: <3B85C222.3166AD6A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
References: <20010823152805.J6278@software.plasmon>
        <mailman.998581116.12575.python-list@python.org>
        <3B85C222.3166AD6A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <15238.28323.743243.13071@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    Greg> There is one thing to keep in mind, though: NEVER MIX TABS AND
    Greg> SPACES IN INDENTATION.  A given file should be indented using
    Greg> either tabs only or spaces only.

Good point.  For Emacs's python-mode at least, this is automatic.  It turns
off indent-tabs-mode if the indent offset doesn't equal one tab width and
will never turn it on.  I suspect other popular editors have commands to
disable TAB insertion.  Also, after getting (mildly) beat up by Tim Peters a
few times in python-dev about mixed spaces & tabs in my posts to that list,
I added a simple mail-send-hook as well:

    (defun untab-buffer ()
      (untabify (point-min) (point-max)))

    (add-hook 'mail-send-hook 'untab-buffer)

People who use Emacs to send mail and occasionally post code might try
that.  Another option would be to disable indent-tabs-mode in your mail send
buffers.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 25 09:19:10 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:19:10 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
In-Reply-To: <3B870B36.4071C1CC@psychosis.com>
References: <3B870B36.4071C1CC@psychosis.com>
Message-ID: <15239.42446.651368.343129@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    Dave> This patch adds a new feature to the sys module, modify_argv().
    Dave> .... (It is of great wonder to me why this functionality is not
    Dave> already available...)

Have you considered that this is a largely platform-dependent feature?  I've
programmed in C or Pascal for more than twenty years, and never felt the
need to do this myself (though I did ask about it once).  The only place
I've found it useful was when monitoring sendmail with ps.  It was
convenient there to see which sendmail process was doing what.  In most
situations I believe it would be better and more portable to write
information out to a log file which you monitor with the tail command.

    Dave> This patch has been submitted for inclusion into core python.

My guess is it will not be accepted, but in any case, the correct place to
submit it so it can be tracked is the patch manager at sourceforge for the
Python project:

    http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=305470

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From bokr at accessone.com  Fri Aug  3 04:05:54 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:05:54 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996710824.30714.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6a520d.1137218513@wa.news.verio.net>

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:06:06 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>[Bengt Richter]
>> ... internals people (of which I'm
>> not one, in case the thought occurred. Not that I wouldn't like to be at
>> some point ;-).
>
>Jump in!  Love to have you.  Try to do something useful, though <wink>.
>
Thanks. I'm all shook up ;-)
I've got a ways to go before I truly grok the implementation though,
and a few other things are pressing, so I can't promise anything
serious for some time, I fear ;-(



From xy-han at home.com  Wed Aug  8 04:30:20 2001
From: xy-han at home.com (Larry Han)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:30:20 GMT
Subject: How to call java from python?
Message-ID: <wM6c7.6221$qb.1465@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

Is there any way to use java method from python?
Like calling C from python, it seems reasonable to
drag java and python closer.

Thanks,
Larry



From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 13 14:48:37 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:48:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <200108131137.HAA17621@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108131307380.21113-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> [Christian Tanzer]
> > Would it be possible to possible to write a meta-class allowing the
> > dynamic change of __class__? And if so, how difficult would that be?
> 
> That would be possible if you're willing to write it in C.

I thought we said that things were going to get _better_ than
ExtensionClass, not worse?

> > I'd like to support the proposal of Glyph and Alex to make 0 the
> > default for `__dynamic__`. IMHO, optimization should be restricted to
> > those few modules where it is really necessary.
> 
> See my response earlier in this thread.

I've read several responses and none of them are really acceptable.

> > Dynamicity is one of the really strong points of Python -- eye popping
> > as Glyph just called it.
> 
> Eye popping can be a negative point too.  I'd prefer a warning before
> my eyes are popped.

If _you_ get a 'warning', _I_ can't do eye-popping things with your code.  
Then python becomes just like Java but slower, for me.

> > > Understood.  Nevertheless, all evidence suggests that Twisted is not
> > > typical Python code. :-)
> > 
> > What is typical? I'd assume that a tiny percentage of Python code uses
> > the really dynamic features.
> 
> Tiny indeed.

A tiny percentage of Python code uses division, (FWIW, I use dynamic
features a lot more than division) but we've seen the furor over _that_
one for months.  A "tiny percentage of python code" also probably takes up
90% of the execution time of "typical" python programs.

> Because __dynamic__ is inherited, if you inherit from an eye-popping
> class, your class will automatically be eye-popping too.

Every class in twisted will then have to inherit from twisted.base.Object
in order to circumvent this silliness.  (That in itself makes it remind me
of C++; when the first thing I'll do on a project is import
workarounds_for_language_design_errors.) But we still won't be able to
assign to __class__...

> > Please be careful in this crusade... The language you *wanted* to design
> > might have been not quite as
> > excellent/wonderful/<insert-your-favorite-exclamation-of-insane-
> > greatness-here> as the one you came up instead :-) 
> 
> Please trust me...  The changes I have in mind might not be so
> devastating for Python's beauty as you seem to be thinking. :-)

Sorry, Guido, but my trust for you goes about as far as I believe the
features of Python I like were intentional.  In this thread, you're
talking about breaking or perverting quite a few of them.  I'm just
waiting for the other shoe to drop and you to decide we really need
variable declarations and braces.

I have a great deal of respect for you and I thank you for giving us
Python, but I am serious when I say that you should develop this new
non-python language elsewhere; it sounds like your (surprising and new?)
design aims are contrary to what many of us are using python for in the
first place.

> > I wouldn't mind if I had to ask for some dynamic features more
> > explicitly than now but I'd really be hard hit if they went away
> > entirely. I'd love to get better performance but not at the price of
> > loosing all this dynamicism. I if wanted to use a non-dynamic language
> > I'd know way too many candidates vying to make my life unhappy <0.1
> > wink>
> 
> Some people like Python for its extreme dynamicism.  But there are
> other languages in that niche (like Lisp).

Yes.  And many lispers have come to Python because of the similiarities.  
Python has a better, more standard, more friendly implementation than most
lisps.  If there were a good, free, UNIX-friendly lisp implementation with
good support for AIO or microthreads, I would not be using Python right
now... except for the fact that it's much _more_ dynamic than lisp.

Consider:

 * lisp is far more efficient than python can ever hope to be, at least in
   its good implementations (Franz cites numbers that exceed the speed of
   "typical" C++ code; its design is such that it's easier to optimize

 * lisp has a better defined object model than Python does

 * lisp has a dynamic reader.  I could (and will, when I start using
   lisp regularly) implement a Python-like syntax in the space of a few
   days.

 * lisp has macros, where python doesn't.

 * lisp can really treat code as an object, making metaprogramming and
   certain kinds of system architecture much more feasible.

Why would anyone in their right mind use python instead of lisp?  Well,
it's super-dynamic.  It has a large and friendly (if somewhat ad-hoc)
standard library.  It plays nice with UNIX as well as Windows.  It has
sane and comprehensible FFI.  The implementation is unified, well-tested,
and cheap.

If you take away reason #1, then a lot of Lisp's features can compensate
for the other implementation issues, and issues like "no macros" and
"static syntax" become instantly crippling instead of mildly
inconvenient... *ESPECIALLY* if you take away reason #1 when it was
already working fine, and there is no indication (as far as I can tell)
that anyone else is unhappy with this state of affairs!

The one thing that Python will have is "consistent syntax and
implementation strategy", but that's a mostly a cultural issue, not a
technical one.  Adding macros as the way of doing things rather than
dynamicism would be more efficient, but less conducive to python's
excellent culture :-D.

> Most people like Python because it's so darn readable and
> maintainable.  Unbridled dynamicism goes against that.

This is of course the reason why C++ and Java programs are so much easier
to debug than python.  All those spelling errors on attribute names -- and
the compiler can't even check them for you!  Sheesh.  Good thing that
python's at least more efficient than those static languages, or there'd
be no reason to use it. :-P

> I am striving for a balance that allows most forms of dynamicism, but
> requires a declaration in advanced for the more extreme kinds.

Personal experience leads me to believe that the more extreme your
dynamicism, the more problems you can worm your way out of down the line,
and the more "bridled" it is, the easier it is to become locked into a
particularly bad design decision.

The excellent thing about python's dynamic nature, much like the excellent
thing about its syntax, is that it's _always_ there.  I can _always_
assign to the __class__ of an instance, always stick in a __getattr__ of
its class that does what I want; always poke __del__ so that I can track
garbage collection *even if it's not my code*.  (have I emphasized this
enough yet?  Sometimes there are bugs in code written by programmers who
are _not_ me! ^_^)  Yes, it would be more efficient to not do so; yes, it
would be more flexible if we made the syntax dynamic, or added macros.  
This kind of efficiency or flexibility would make python worse for me (and
I see this sentiment echoed by everyone else who's posted to this thread.  
Does anyone agree with guido?  Tim? ^_^)

> > Separate explicit mechanisms would be much better than just dropping
> > dynamicism. In fact, despite the need for changing working code
> > <sigh>, making an external change of a module explicit would probably
> > be a good thing.
> 
> Exactly.  I'm not planning to drop dynamicism -- I'm planning to make
> it more explicit.

Making an external change of a module variable or class variable already
_is_ explicit.

  import foo; foo.bar = baz

  class Foo: pass
  Foo.x = 1

What's implicit about either of these things?

the-dutch-might-be-blunt-but-nobody-ever-accused-them-
	of-being-obvious-or-even-comprehensible-ly y'rs,

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 03:27:20 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 00:27:20 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nu46t.nd2.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>
Message-ID: <7xwv40ik6f.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler) writes:
> >  How can I
> >convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
> >form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can
> >think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.
> 
> Hmmm... my first thought was struct.pack but you'd first need to chop
> the long up into (literally) byte-size pieces. And even when you've
> done that, struct.pack() won't take a list as an argument.
> 
> Aside from struct, there's the binascii module which you might find
> useful. For example, here's a pretty fast way to do what you asked
> for:

Yes, thanks, this appears to be about the best way to do it in pure
Python.  The running speed is reasonable for what I'm doing, at least
on my x86 laptop.  Eventually I'd like to run this thing on WinCE
which is part of the reason I don't want to rely on C modules
(I don't have a WinCE C compiler).

Thanks!


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 24 01:50:28 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:50:28 -0400
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
In-Reply-To: <3B8551CC.846C141B@home.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOELFLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Chris Barker]
> ...
> Apparently, a major effort to optimise for speed is not on the top
> of the developers list,

That's true, but it appears to be mixed with a misunderstanding of reality:
there's no major effort of *any* kind on the developers' list, neither at
the top nor at the bottom.  120% of available time is consumed by an endless
sequence of small but achievable projects; the biggest thing going today is
the type/class unification, and the total effort for that is hoped to be
just a few person-months.

Earlier this year I spent two intense weeks *just* trimming runtime fat out
of Python's dict implementation.  Do you have an idea what it takes to
undertake a comprehensive optimization project?  I'll immodestly claim that
I do, and I see no way for PythonLabs to get there from here.  The best hope
you've got for major Python speedups is the vague hope that Python can
piggyback on some other group's work.  Short of that, you'll see a sequence
of small but achievable improvements.  In other words, the next 10 years
will probably look like the last 10, surprisingly similar to real life in
that respect <wink>.

although-i'll-get-even-grumpier-ly y'rs  - tim




From gtcopeland at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 15 10:03:30 2001
From: gtcopeland at earthlink.net (Greg Copeland)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:03:30 -0500
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net> <3B789CC6.2FD7FFB5@engcorp.com> <3b78b4b2@news.actrix.gen.nz> <3B791B01.6E694928@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <m23d6th13h.fsf@mouse.copelandconsulting.net>

Yes.  NT does allow you to directly access a device in such a manner.  From
the application perspective, it does look like a single large file.  Assuming
the device supports seeks (I'm sure a DAT will), seeks can also be directly
performed on the device in question.

Greg


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Mark Rowe wrote:
> > 
> > Windows NT: You can use the CreateFile function to open a disk drive or a
> > partition on a disk drive. The function returns a handle to the disk device;
> > that handle can be used with the DeviceIOControl function. The following
> > requirements must be met in order for such a call to succeed:
> > 
> > The lpFileName string should be of the form \\.\PHYSICALDRIVEx to open the
> > hard disk x. 
> 
> That explains part of the situation. :)  Live and learn.
> 
> But I still wonder whether any of this applies to a TAPE drive 
> under NT.
> 
> I wonder whether you've answered the original question, however, 
> with the part about "The caller must have administrative privileges 
> for the operation to succeed on a hard disk drive." ?
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------
> Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
> peter at engcorp.com

-- 
Greg Copeland, Principal Consultant
Copeland Computer Consulting
--------------------------------------------------
PGP/GPG Key at http://www.keyserver.net
DE5E 6F1D 0B51 6758 A5D7  7DFE D785 A386 BD11 4FCD
--------------------------------------------------


From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Fri Aug  3 13:30:44 2001
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 03 Aug 2001 13:30:44 -0400
Subject: 2.2 features
In-Reply-To: <PM00038AA0A688BB8B@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com>
	<mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org>
	<3B6AA06E.7060408@livinglogic.de> <3B6AA5F6.1050603@livinglogic.de>
	<PM00038AA0A688BB8B@gormenghast.unknown.dom>
Message-ID: <87zo9hvynv.fsf@elbereth.ccraig.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Charlie Clark <charlie at begeistert.org> writes:

> I understand the problem like this: Classes keep lists of their
> sub-classes *and* of their instances and "in" is a keyword which checks
> for membership in sequences.

As currently proposed (last I checked) this is incorrect.  You have it
backwards.  An instance knows what it is, and a subclass knows who it
inherits from, but the reverse is not true.  For this reason I think
the correct way to spell these should be something like

instance.isinstanceof(class)
class.issubclassof(metaclass)


- -- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
"When all else fails, manipulate the data."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt

iEYEARECAAYFAjtq38QACgkQjVztv3T8pzsj4ACfRy6P/a3YmvIIiLME2WzacIyr
KXAAoMUKzue+cyJqCic26D40Xq3A3wn5
=ct/n
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From printers at sendme.cz  Wed Aug  8 03:51:20 2001
From: printers at sendme.cz (Lad)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 00:51:20 -0700
Subject: Urllib/httplib and cookies
References: <e34de21e.0108070716.576531af@posting.google.com> <3b700892$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <e34de21e.0108072351.4c548e8@posting.google.com>

Hi Doug,
Thank you for your email.
What I need is to automate posting to web sites such as mail.yahoo.com
(to check email AUTOMATICALY)  that use cookies to sign-in. In Perl I
can do it very easily. Is it possible to do it in Python as well?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
>  
> > Does UrlLib (any other)module support cookies? An example is
>  
> > mail.yahoo.com where I must first sign-in and then cookies are return
>  
> > for this session and only then I can read my mails.
>  
> > Thanks for help.
>  
> > Ladislav
>  
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> Cookies are just HTTP headers, urllib and httplib don't get involved at 
> 
> that level. There's a 'Cookie' module in the Python library. It's for 
> 
> server-side cookie handling, which I don't think you're interested in. 
> 
> However, it's worth reading. I've attached the code we use for cookies at 
> 
> www.stressmy.com.


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 17 13:45:39 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 12:45:39 -0500
Subject: why does this hang
References: <1r66bnzkc6.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <9lig4v1r55@enews3.newsguy.com> <1rzo8yn4e0.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu> <3B7D534C.6C3427D9@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1rd75umvgc.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> writes:

    Jeff> This is just a guess, of course, but maybe it's specific
    Jeff> values for times that are causing the problems?  Perhaps an
    Jeff> am/pm thing?  If the only thing that's changed is the time
    Jeff> of day that you're running it......

It's an interesting thought, but I have used the C++ library
extensively and have no problems with it.  Since the constructor I was
using in the python code takes a date arg (eg, MyDate("06/15/2001") or
MyDate(6,15,2001) ) current time should not make a difference.  But
I'll bear it in mind and try the test case at several times today and
tonight.  And could this explain why commenting out code *after* the
line where it froze could make a difference.

Thanks,
John Hunter




From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Fri Aug 17 13:29:20 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:29:20 GMT
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <9ljge2523oi@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <vdkqnt88ucipjv1r7jkqadegccvdgdh1vr@4ax.com>

>I have some such experience, but never on such a scale (I think
>the 10K lines of Python will translate to roughly 80K-100K lines of
>C++, ....

The last time I ported Python to C++, I created a special class library
for maintaining some kinds of Python semantics in C++. For example.

SymbolTable table = new SymbolTable();

Symbol symbol1 = table->Intern("this is a test");
Symbol symbol2 = table->Intern("this is a test");

if (symbol1==symbol2) ...

-------------

Symbol does not have an overloaded equals operator. Rather, the
symbol table arranges all lexigraphically identical strings in the same
symbol table to have the same address. This allows you to use symbols
in hash tables without having to element-wise compare their string bodies
on collisions, amongst other things. Also, strcmp() isn't needed.

There are also some convenience functions. For example:

Symbol symbol3 = table->VaIntern("this is a test, number %d", 3);

-----------

Discounting the library itself, code bloat was really only about ~200%.

The key to getting this right is making sure that you can TRANSLITERATE
your Python to C++. Translation is not good enough.

C//



From jpapa at websense.com  Mon Aug  6 13:57:58 2001
From: jpapa at websense.com (J. Papa)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 10:57:58 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python in a C++ CGI
Message-ID: <9e180f21.0108060957.3b608acc@posting.google.com>

I am attempting to use embedded python in a cgi program. (I know it's
strange, but humor me.) However, text pumped to "print" is not
redirected to the client.

What exactly is the problem with this code?

#include "Python.h"
#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

char *pszCgi = "print \"Content-Type: text/html\\r\\n\\r\\n\"\n" \
"print \"Hello Word!\"\n";

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
	Py_Initialize();
	PyRun_SimpleString( pszCgi );

//	cout << "Content-Type: text/html\r\n";
//	cout << "\r\n";
//	cout << "Hello World!" << endl;

	return 0;
}

If I comment out the Py_ stuff and uncomment the cout stuff it works
fine.

Thanks,
jpapa


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Fri Aug  3 05:15:03 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:15:03 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
Message-ID: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>

Just wondering. Can anyone tell me the rationale for leaving the ++/-- 
operator out of python. It is perhaps my only irritation with python, it
is just that I hate to have to write:

x = x + 1

when my whole being just yearns to type

x++

I guess it is perhaps not as clear, but I am not aware of it being a
common cause of errors in C++ or java (doesn't mean it isn't, just that
I am not aware of them). I also miss +=, *=, %=, /=, would it really 
make the code that much harder to read/maintain?

blobby



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug 15 09:49:59 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:49:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: eof?
In-Reply-To: <9ldrqt025ev@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108150947350.779-100000@localhost>


On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Dietmar Lang" <dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de> wrote in message
> news:3B7A4C7C.CF1A3C3A at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de...
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> > >
> > >     for line in fh.xreadlines():
> > >         process(line)
> >
> > Is xreadlines something I missed or is it a misspelled readlines?
> 
> You missed the introduction of xreadlines, which satisfies
> exactly this objection.  xreadlines is to readlines like xrange
> is to range: it produces its sequence a little at a time (you
> can control the buffersize used if you want) rather than
> making it all in memory at one time, and therefore it may
> be more general if you may need to process sequences that
> are very large (readlines is probably going to be faster if the
> file isn't that large compared to available memory, though).

And in 2.2, file objects can automatically return an iterator 
in the context of a for loop, so you can just say:

	for line in open( filename ):
		process(line)

-- Steve Majewski





From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Fri Aug 17 09:15:11 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:15:11 +0300
Subject: __del__ ignors exception in 2.1?
References: <3B7D186A.A3E3FB9E@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <3B7D18DF.60B4725F@iit.demokritos.gr>

OK it was somewhat embarrassing so I change the subject line. Please answer to
this post

Vassilis Virvilis wrote:
> 
> Try the follwoing snippet:
> 
> class bar:
>   def __del__(self):
>     badsnake()
> 
> a=bar()
> del a
> print "It continues"
> 
> it spits:
> Exception exceptions.NameError: "global name 'badsnake' is not defined" in
> <method bar.__del__ of bar instance at 0x80cfa1c> ignored
> It continues
> 
> Why? Shouldn't the exception make python abort?


From ungrzr2 at ubatxbat.pbz  Thu Aug 23 01:52:30 2001
From: ungrzr2 at ubatxbat.pbz ({-- Rot13 - Hateme)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 05:52:30 GMT
Subject: IRC Client : Where to begin
References: <sdVg7.14129$V7.421320@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Xns91068D18D66BEYouAreNotMeYouKnow@205.252.144.34>

So you should go to http://www.xchat.org. You got source and
it runs on Windows. So you can stady the source and know
how to design it.

I think irssi now has a cleaner design (Because it is redesigned.)
The code are very simple and clean. But it only runs on linux.


From dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu  Thu Aug  9 17:17:01 2001
From: dpt at abel.math.harvard.edu (Dylan Thurston)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 21:17:01 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <slrn9mth4e.8nl.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu> <1004690.ASKD2KPVSP@lunix.schabi.de> <3B703AF5.620B1108@ccvcorp.com> <14665424.k6j6fTUFtl@lunix.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <slrn9n5veb.72j.dpt@abel.math.harvard.edu>

In article <14665424.k6j6fTUFtl at lunix.schabi.de>, Markus Schaber wrote:
>Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> schrub:
>>> With the automatic turning to 0/maxint, they even are limited to
>>> non-negative integers. So it is impossible to use any form of
>>> negative indexes, which sometimes would be nice when dealing with
>>> coordinates.
>> 
>> Um.... you *can* use negative values in slices:
>> 
>>>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>>>> mylist[-2:-1]
>> [3]
>>>>> mylist [:-2]
>> [1, 2]
>
>Yes - but this means "count from the other end" instead of "go 
>backwards from index 0"

Only if you use the broken __getslice__ interface.  If you use the 
__getitem__ interface (passed a slice object) you can do whatever you 
want.

--Dylan Thurston



From jmv at yandex.ru  Fri Aug 10 00:13:32 2001
From: jmv at yandex.ru (Eugene Morozov)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:13:32 +0400
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
References: <mailman.997297633.915.python-list@python.org> <9ktkqv01u9h@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <87zo98wo0j.fsf@lucifer.home.spb>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> "Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
> news:mailman.997297633.915.python-list at python.org...
> > On 7 Aug 2001, Eugene Morozov wrote:
> > > I'm playing with Python, COM and Word and I'm very impressed. It's a
> > > shame that no such thing exist under Unix.
> >
> >    Especilly it is shame there is no Word under UNIX.
> 
> There many excellent programs that reproduce Word (although
> I think they can't be CALLED Word for trademark reasons:-),
> such as the word processors in StarOffice and OpenOffice
> and many others.  It's surely not a shame that their name
> can't reproduce a MS trademark:-) -- not a big problem!

I wouldn't say that they're excellent. They're usually very
slow (OpenOffice on K6-450 is slower than MS Word under
VMWare on Pentium 166!), more buggy than Word and doesn't
handle complex Word documents correctly. That's make them an
unusable alternative -- I have to use .doc format for my
work, even though I prefer docbook. But this is already
offtopic.

> 
> It IS more of a shame that there's no standard way to script
> programs -- no standardized Component Object Model, but
> rather "fragments of componentization" scattered here and
> there (bonobo, XPCOM, ...?).  Under Win32, if you can talk
> COM well, there are few relevant limits to what you can
> script/automate/control/etc.  No such thing under Unix:-(.
> 

This is exactly what I wanted to say, it's just my bad
English didn't allow me to say this so clearly.

-- 
Email: <roshiajin % yahoo.com>      http://www.geocities.com/roshiajin/
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. 
                                     -- Bertrand Russell


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 12:59:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:59:30 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net> <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com> <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net> <9ll72t01rbk@enews2.newsguy.com> <3B7E5355.675D569B@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <9lm70i01sn@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Michael Str?der" <michael at stroeder.com> wrote in message
news:3B7E5355.675D569B at stroeder.com...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> >
> > > > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207
> >
> > If something can be done with a few lines of code in the
> > language as it is, it requires very strong motivation for that
> > something to become a built-in language mechanism:
>
> I would guess that the recipe above causes some performance penalty.

Why guess, when you can measure?

Say const.py is like in the recipe, normal.py is an empty
normal module, and test.py contains:

import time, const, normal

start = time.clock()
const.magic = 23
sum = 0L
for i in range(100000):
    sum += const.magic
stend = time.clock()

print "const : %5.2f"%(stend-start)

start = time.clock()
normal.magic = 23
sum = 0L
for i in range(100000):
    sum += normal.magic
stend = time.clock()

print "normal: %5.2f"%(stend-start)

Here are three runs on my box:

D:\ian\good>python test.py
const :  1.44
normal:  1.60

D:\ian\good>python test.py
const :  1.63
normal:  1.53

D:\ian\good>python test.py
const :  1.41
normal:  1.53

See?  No statistically significant difference penalizes the
const module vs a normal module -- it so happens the
loop using the const module was faster two times out
of three, but this is indeed happenstance.

Moral: never guess at performance -- it often baffles the
intuition even of the most accomplished expert.  MEASURE.


> > I think that "constants" are a good
> > example of something that should NOT be in the language
> > itself, exactly because it's a minor issue and it can be
> > easily implemented without too much trouble
>
> Disclaimer: I'm not a compiler expert.
> IMHO constants are useful in compiled languages because they are
> immutable and therefore a compiler can insert them as "in-line"
> operands for optimization.

Sure, no doubt you can gain a microsecond or two each
time a constant is a literal rather than having to be fetched
anew from the module owning it.  But, so what?!  Any
good Python developer using a module attribute (that is
not meant to change) in a tight loop that'a performance
hot-spot would surely 'hoist' the module access out of
the loop, using a local function variable instead (which
is just as fast to access as a literal).

Don't guess -- MEASURE: change the above program to
consider literals and hoisting too: and see what comes up...

The design of the Python language is *NOT* traditionally
driven by an obsession with micro-optimizations -- thanks
be, or it would most definitely _NOT_ be Python.  These
misplaced performance-related worries surely can't justify
perverting the language by adding a built-in "constant".


Alex





From washort at ghostwheel.dhis.net  Mon Aug 13 20:04:14 2001
From: washort at ghostwheel.dhis.net (Allen Short)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:04:14 -0500
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997728501.21397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874rrbo6bl.fsf@ghostwheel.dhis.net>

>>>>> "Glyph" == Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:

    > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

    >> Some people like Python for its extreme dynamicism.  But there
    >> are other languages in that niche (like Lisp).

    > Yes.  And many lispers have come to Python because of the
    > similiarities.  Python has a better, more standard, more
    > friendly implementation than most lisps.  If there were a good,
    > free, UNIX-friendly lisp implementation with good support for
    > AIO or microthreads, I would not be using Python right
    > now... except for the fact that it's much _more_ dynamic than
    > lisp.

As one of the aforementioned Lispers that's come to Python, I'd be
rather saddened if it started to go the way of Java. While I'm not
sure I agree that Python is more dynamic than Lisp (it _does_ have
change-class after all =), it _certainly_ has better OS
integration. (not to mention that most of the higher-quality Common
Lisp implementations aren't free...)

Python is the main reason I haven't started working on a new
(un-Common) Lisp. The main thing that attracted me to Python was that
it shared a major characteristic with Lisp -- it trusts the
programmer, as opposed to the Java/Pascal view that the programmer is
a malignant influence on the system and must be prevented from messing
things up too badly. ;) I understand the desire for efficient
execution and agree that the language should be extended to promote it
-- but please, _please_, make these optimisations *optional*, and have
them default to being disabled.

meanwhile-perl6-is-looking-better-all-the-time'ly-yrs,

Allen

-- 
Allen Short             Programmer-Archaeologist             shortwa at auburn.edu
And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing what
the dictionary says it means, you go to jail.  No exceptions.  -- David Jones


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Thu Aug  9 19:57:40 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:57:40 GMT
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <km86ntkikbahja2irku852153edplok3ob@4ax.com>

>Why is the first one so slow?

Because you're duplicating the entire string every time you add
a single character to it. A similar situation arises in Java; one should
use a StringBuffer object instead. In Python this can be accomplished
by appending chars to the end of a list and then stringifying it: no
StringBuffer needed.

C//



From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Aug  4 03:17:31 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 07:17:31 -0000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <996909451.164371@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com>:
(quoting Dave Brueck>
|> My take is that, especially in Python, type-related bugs make up an
|> extremely small segment of all bugs, and the examples I've seen of
|> specifying all that type information dramatically increase the complexity
|> of the source code, even to the point of possibly _introducing_ bugs.
|
| I feel alot of synergy for the above sentiment and believe it is quite
| insightful. Of late, I've been thinking alot about lexical, grammatical,
| and semantic complexity as it applies to computer programming and
| the various different correctness memes which float around in the
| community. I've concluded  that comprehensible tersness trumps all
| other measures of merit.
|
| I believe that there is a sort of Occam's Razor of Coding, as it were,
| where given two different programs which execute identically, the one
| which is shorter, simpler, and easier to understand is the better
| program, notwithstanding any principles it may or may not adhere to.
|
| Various different rules which have crept up over the years such as
| "don't use global variables," and "practice strong encapsulation,"
| and so forth are all only distractions and are useless to the degree
| that in any particular context they don't satisfy Sir Occam's relentless
| blade.

The hard problems are really in large systems, though, aren't they?
How do you apply this razor to IIS, for example, or SunOS?

This afternoon I finally forced myself to get back to work on a large
piece of software that I want to modify.  It's a network server that
performs a fairly simple function and isn't really all that big, but
it's inordinately difficult to work with.  I could show you some
excerpts, you'd laugh, but I'm sure the author would argue that his
code is shorter and simpler, and for him I suppose perhaps even
easier to understand.

But the worst part is just that it's big and you have to follow
the flow of control all over the place to understand what interacts
with what, and to some extent you have to retain that understanding
while writing your part.  And this is "Hello, world", compared to
real industrial strength big software.

Can you make that stuff manageable by keeping things short and simple?  
Well, maybe yes, but it isn't enough to just meet some definition of
short and simple.  Classic software engineering models like structured,
object oriented, functional programming all add some modular discipline
to code at the expense of straightforward brevity, and you need it to
survive.  The enemy is not so much the small scale complexity of a
few lines of code, but the complexity of interactions in a large
system.  Make that short and simple, and you're cooking - and you're
probably doing pretty well with your common software engineering
models.

I'm here because I need to reduce complexity, my head doesn't do
too good with the complicated stuff.  And I make mistakes, a lot.
Python helps.  It handles complicated stuff like managing storage
so I can deal with objects at a more abstract level.  It handles
mistakes with exceptions, so I don't have to account for all the
things I don't expect.  Those two, anyway, make for shorter and
simpler code most of the time, but you know there's a lot more
there than just how many lines of code.  For one thing, in my
opinion those two features alone make a big difference for the
implementation of library functions, they reduce the complexity
of interfaces in a very important way.

If you look at a functional language with strong static type
checking, it's doing the same thing from a different direction -
reducing unnecessary side effects and so forth.  But it also
benefits from a model that allows the compiler to infer some
degree of correctness in the relationships in your program.
It can't do your job better than you, but you can use it to
do your job better.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug  8 11:50:03 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:50:03 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
 <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
>
> >         You Emacs users, you've been boasting about "X/Emacs's Python
> > mode".  First of all, you said you didn't like Vi because it was
> > modal.
> > Secondly, Vim has a Python environment.  Ie, with vim you can get
> > syntax
> > highlighting for Python, and automatic indenting for Python.  What
> > more
> > could you want?
>
> So use it if you like it.  No one's forcing you.

Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to (or
at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a Python
environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody know
of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables Python
stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...

(note:  I had another reason for sending the last one, I wanted to know
what else Emacs in Python mode could do.)


-- 
     Whenever a computer is booted into Windoze - a penguin dies of a
     broken heart.
               -- Steve Baker

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From paulsid at home.com  Sun Aug 12 13:27:38 2001
From: paulsid at home.com (Paul Sidorsky)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:27:38 -0600
Subject: Python Web Site Copier?
References: <mailman.997580418.1385.python-list@python.org> <3B7646F4.154802F6@chello.nl>
Message-ID: <3B76BC8A.D273F87@home.com>

Roeland Rengelink wrote:

> Paul Sidorsky wrote:
> >
> > Has anybody written a Python version of a utility like sitecopy?  (For
> > synchronizing a web site on a server with a copy maintained on one's hard
> > drive.)  From my search, I see that a few months ago somebody was working on a
> > Python wrapper for sitecopy, but I would prefer a pure-Python solution for a
> > variety of reasons (which I won't go into).

> In the Tools/webchecker/ directory of your (well, mine at least) Python
> distribution
> there is a script called websucker.py which might be what you're looking
> for.

Hmmm, upon rereading my description it looks like I was ambiguous about what
exactly I was trying to do.  Sorry about that.  I'll try to clarify:

I have a web site that I update by editing a local copy on my hard drive.  When
I change pages locally I then have to upload all of the changed pages to the
server via FTP; this is what I'm looking to automate.  Thus I'm trying to do
the opposite of what websucker and the other suggestions seem to do.  They take
an existing web site and create a mirror copy on my HD, whereas I'm taking a
site on my HD and creating a mirror (of sorts) on the server.  I guess I didn't
specify in which direction I was "synchronizing"!

sitecopy (http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/) does more-or-less what I want but as I
said I am looking for an existing Python script if one is out there.  Writing
such a script actually kind of looks like fun but of course I'd rather not do
it if somebody else already has.  Summer break is only so long.  :-)

-- 
======================================================================
Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
paulsid at home.com                      http://members.home.net/paulsid/



From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 16 03:27:42 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:27:42 +0200
Subject: Anti-spam idea Re: Attention Physicians
References: <3B79FC10.94AD2E33@student.gu.edu.au> <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108150952470.6172-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru> <mailman.997916726.32514.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2000345.A9gRusQuhb@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Sean Reifschneider <jafo-nclug at tummy.com> schrub:

> Alternately, we should move to mailing list to a server in Colorado,
> USA, where they have passed leglislation giving both the "email
> service provider" and the recipient of the e-mail the opportunity to
> collect $10 *PER VIOLATION* for UCE sent that doesn't include "ADV:"
> in the subject.

In Austria (not Australia :-) it is a crime to send unsolicited 
commercial _or_ uncolicited mass email. You have to pay ?S 500.000 when 
they "get" you. (about 30.000 US $)

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Aug  7 10:00:47 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:00:47 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: How to use socket.ssl
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJOFMGKLCLFAJFCGNEECBCAAA.rishi.roy@getiview.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108071800270.11088-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Rishi R. Roy wrote:
> I also have no idea how to generate a keyfile and certificate
> (which seem to be needed by socket.ssl).

   http://www.pyca.de/

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From web.mail at lycos.com  Wed Aug 15 20:28:32 2001
From: web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 17:28:32 -0700
Subject: Debugging Multi-Threaded Python Programs
Message-ID: <270c68fe.0108151628.42f78be7@posting.google.com>

I've been trying to demonstrate Python debuggers to a colleague. One
thing that everyone here is keen to see is debugging of multi-threaded
programs.

The program below is what I have been using to test - the idea is to
catch a the 'naughty' thread modifying a shared global value. So far,
I've only been able to set breakpoints on the program's main thread.
Breakpoints on other threads do not work.

A quick look at the Python source and libraries tells me that:

(a) Debuggers hook into the interpreter via sys.settrace().
sys.settrace() sets a trace function for _the current thread only_.

(b) pdb (the standard debugger module) and the IDLE debugger are both
based on the bdb module, which only call sys.settrace() on one thread.

I've also tried Komodo and PythonWin, with exactly the same results:
breakpoints only work on the main thread.

Has anyone out there had luck with interactively debugging
multi-threaded Python programs? On Windows? Is there an alternative to
implementing my own GUI debugger (which won't happen)?

Alan.


--- ThreadTest.py ---
from time import sleep, time
from random import randrange
import threading

NUM_THREADS = 5
SHARED_GLOBAL_VALUE = 10
END_TIME = 0

class Worker(threading.Thread):
    # Use the shared value
    def run(self):
        while int(time()) < END_TIME:
            sleep(randrange(5))
            print int(time()), "That value is:", SHARED_GLOBAL_VALUE

class Saboteur(threading.Thread):
    # Sabotage the shared value
    def run(self):
        sleep(15)
        global SHARED_GLOBAL_VALUE
        SHARED_GLOBAL_VALUE = 999  ### Breakpoint Here Does Not Work
###

END_TIME = int(time()) + 20
print "Will Finish at: ", END_TIME

for i in range(NUM_THREADS):  
    Worker().start()  ### Breakpoint Here Works ###
Saboteur().start()


From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug  8 12:09:22 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:09:22 +0200
Subject: python-dev summary, July 16-31
References: <mailman.997201920.8047.clpa-moderators@python.org>	<9kpfc9$bo8$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3B70515D.220DD2D1@letterror.com> <mailman.997220532.14141.python-list@python.org> <3B7085F9.28830B9A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9kro7g02r2p@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B7085F9.28830B9A at engcorp.com...
> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
    ...
> > About that one, it always saddened me a little bit that I may not write:
> >
> >         if x in 1, 2, 3:
> >             pass
> >
> > while I can write:
> >
> >         for x in 1, 2, 3:
> >             pass
>
> I would never have thought to write either of these.  On the other
> hand, if I did write things the second way, I would _expect_ that
> the first one would work as well.
>
> > In the first, I write the parentheses so it gets accepted, but I would
> > prefer not using them.  It breaks some of the symmetry, in my opinion
:-).
>
> It's not so much that symmetry is missing -- it just doesn't follow
> the "rule of least surprise", does it?

I fully agree, so I just submitted a feature request to sourceforge --
hopefully one doesn't have to write a PEP for _this_ sort of stuff?-)


Alex





From owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu  Wed Aug 15 14:16:06 2001
From: owen at astrono.junkwashington.emu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:16:06 -0700
Subject: problem calling functions with default arguments
Message-ID: <9lee98$34p0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Consider the following code:

def atest(alist = []):
  print "alist =", alist
  alist.append("test")

atest()
atest()
atest()

I was expecting that alist would be empty every time it is printed. 
However, when I run the code I see:

alist = []
alist = ['test']
alist = ['test', 'test']

It appears that alist is persisting in the function. Is there some 
standard easy way to work around this, so that:
- if the caller specifies an argument, it is used
- if the user does not specify an argument, the default specified in the 
argument list is used

So far I've thought of two possibilities, neither at all attractive:
- Never use a default for a container (list, dictionary...)
- Always reset the container to the desired default state when finished, 
a process rife with potential errors (making sure it always gets set and 
making sure the final set value stays in synch with the default value)

I have seen this on Python version 2.1.1 on a Mac and Python version 2.0 
on Solaris, so it's clearly been around for awhile. I'm amazed I only 
stumbled across it today (trying to debug some truly bizarre behavior in 
my Tk GUI application, due to assuming a dictionary would default to {} 
as specified).

-- Russell


From SSchukat at dspace.de  Tue Aug 21 13:21:52 2001
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:21:52 +0100
Subject: ByteCode Questions
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD5C@newsintern.dspace.de>

Hi,

I wanted to implement a "EvalInCaller" like in MATLAB. But
my code is only working if an exec statement is called after 
my code, e.g. 

import traceback

def EvalInCaller(Command):
    try:
        1/0
    except:
        import traceback
        import sys
        tb = sys.exc_info()[2]
        ExecFrame = tb.tb_frame.f_back
        exec(Command, ExecFrame.f_globals, ExecFrame.f_locals)

def Working():
    EvalInCaller("a = 2\n")
    exec("")
    print a

def NotWorking():
    EvalInCaller("a = 2\n")
    print a

try:
    Working() 
except:
    traceback.print_exc()

try:
    NotWorking() 
except:
    traceback.print_exc()


So the question is why does Python take the LOAD_GLOBAL byte code
in the not working function and the LOAD_NAME bytecode in the 
working version. How can I force the LOAD_NAME bytecode dynamically 
or must I exchange all LOAD_GLOBAL to LOAD_NAME in the codeblock
used.

Comments ??

    Stefan




From sbrunning at bigfoot.com  Mon Aug 13 08:23:04 2001
From: sbrunning at bigfoot.com (Simon Brunning)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 05:23:04 -0700
Subject: Python for beginners
References: <9khr73$5rm$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <12f02d51.0108130423.10f7062a@posting.google.com>

"Michael Briel" <kruge at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<9khr73$5rm$03$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> I'm generally interested in Python - can anybode point me to either a book
> or a page that teaches you from the beginning how to use this language? I
> generally know how to program computers, but I haven't done it in ages, so
> it better be "for Dummies"... ;o)

If you haven't programmed before, check out Alan Gauld's 'Learning to
Program' at <http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/>, or 'How to think
like a Computer Scientist', at
<http://www.andamooka.org/reader.pl?section=thinkpython>. These are
aimed at teaching programming using Python to complete beginners.

Links to *loads* of tutorials can be found at
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Documentation_and_Tutorials/>.

And don't forget the Python tutor mailing list, at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>. Well worth joining if
you are learning Python!

Cheers,
Simon B.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 17:16:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:16:25 +0200
Subject: Threads
References: <e34de21e.0108131242.55a471be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9l9g3l02tk2@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Lad" <printers at sendme.cz> wrote in message
news:e34de21e.0108131242.55a471be at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> I am a newbie with Python.I want to use threads in my application.
> Can you please let me know what is the best way of programming threads
> under Win32 systems?
> What modules shall I use?
> Is it better to use the thread module or the threading module or the
> stackless Python? What are differences?

Module threading is reasonably high-level and simple to use.  Module
thread is rather low-level and hard to use.  Stackless is great for
"user-level micro-threads" but they do NOT use the Win32's own
(native) threads, which I think is what you want.

The most important module for threading with only a FEW headaches,
right after threading, is Queue.  It does away with 74.6% of the worst
headaches with thread synchronization primitives if you architect
stuff around Queue's.

> Can you please give any example?

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/2796
http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/prodcons/alt/prodcons.python2.pyt
hon
many links from:
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/263
the whole of: http://www.python9.com/p9-aahz.pdf

Hope that's enough for starters...


Alex





From maj64 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 23 23:21:31 2001
From: maj64 at hotmail.com (Mark J)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 20:21:31 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <mailman.998573411.21163.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a0567c6b.0108231921.76359385@posting.google.com>

Hans Nowak <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message news:<mailman.998573411.21163.python-list at python.org>...
> >===== Original Message From Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> =====
> >Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?
> >
> >        [f(x) for x in a]
> >
> >just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
> >to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,
> >
> >        map(lambda x: f(x), a).
> >
> >Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
> >is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
> >the language.
> 
> Interesting... one of the reasons to add this was because it was thought to be 
> more readable than the functional stuff (map, filter, lambda)... :) Sometimes 
> it is. Compare:
> 
> >>> [x*2+1 for x in range(10) if x % 2]
>  [3, 7, 11, 15, 19]
> >>> map(lambda x: x*2+1, filter(lambda x: x%2, range(10)))
> [3, 7, 11, 15, 19]
>
> I think the first one is clearer, but that's largely a matter of preference. 
> Sometimes I use a listcomp, sometimes a simple map will do. I think that this 
> feature was added to provide an alternative to lambda/map and friends, which 
> encourage obfuscation. (If this was the case, it's incomplete, methinx... 
> there's no alternative for 'reduce'.)

But how about the straightforward, obvious, syntactically consistent,
and just as fast (yes, I did a test):

l = []
for x in range(10):
    if x % 2:
        l += [x]

List comprehensions do seem a bit of a syntactic "hair" just to save
one name assignment.  If you're doing it to just save a few lines of
code, that's easily done too without adding more inconsistent syntax:

l = []; for x in range(10): if x % 2: l += [x]

In what cases are list comprehensions significantly better?

Thanks,

Mark


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug  2 16:59:06 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:59:06 -0700
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996524697.8188.python-list@python.org>
		<20010802.003235.1139901474.15605@d150-169-166.home.cgocable.net>
		<etdae1ivcjs.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu> <15209.46948.962877.501742@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3B69BF1A.26196619@ActiveState.com>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "A" == Alex  <new_name at mit.edu> writes:
> 
>     A> Actually, are the mailing lists mirrored anywhere?  I've gotten
>     A> stuck a couple of times for the want of them.
> 
> The mailing lists are all on mail.python.org a completely different
> machine than www.python.org (not even in the same building, and soon,
> probably not even on the same continent :).
> 
> AFAIK, the list archives are not mirrored anywhere.

Most of the Python universe archives are available here:

   http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail?topic=Python

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From hnowak at cuci.nl  Mon Aug 13 07:46:29 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:46:29 +0200
Subject: confused about adding elements to a list with list.append(otherlist)
Message-ID: <3B80C368@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com (Tist Verdonck) 
=====
>I got this problem where I have an empty list and I want to fill it up
>with other lists using a for-iteration:
>
>list = []
>data = ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh']
>z = len(data)
>for x in range(z):
>    list.append(data)
>    data.append('IJ')

list.append(data) adds a reference to data to the list. You end up with a list 
of references to the same object (data); that data changed during the loop is 
irrelevant in this situation.

Use list.append(data[:]) instead and the code will do what you intended (this 
will add a copy of data to the list).

>I think it must have something to do with me having problems with
>python's use of variables (not copying them but making references to them)

Yes, Python doesn't implicitly copy objects. In a language like C,

  int a, b = 42;
  a = b;

copies the value of b to a, but in Python

  b = 42
  a = b

a binding is created (b referring to an integer object with value 42), then a 
refers to that same object. Since integers are immutable, their behavior is 
unsurprising, because

  a = 28

will not change the value of b, just like "a = 28;" in C would not change the 
value of b.

Mutable objects behave the same way, really:

  b = [1, 2, 3]
  a = b

Now a and b refer to the same object, a list. And

  a = [4, 5]

does not change the value of b; it simply binds a to a new list with value 
[4,5]. Problems only occur in situations like

  b = [1, 2, 3]
  a = b
  a.append(4)

when people don't realize that mutating a also affects b, because they're the 
same object.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Aug 16 03:33:01 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:33:01 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Changing argv of the python process
In-Reply-To: <3B7B033B.B564DB71@psychosis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108161131440.28012-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Dave Cinege wrote:
> I searched various archives and it appears there is no provision to alter
> the actual argv[] strings of the python process. Has this not changed
> yet?
>
> I'm very surprised python has this (severe) limitation.

   It is not severe indeed.

> How does one exec a python program with a password on the cmdline?

   Of course NOT! Don't do it even if you can setproctitle - there is an
obvious race condition.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Wed Aug 29 02:02:31 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:02:31 GMT
Subject: Problem in multithreading Socketserver explained (should apply to *nix, too)
Message-ID: <3b8c84e1.766674781@news.isar.de>

The BaseHTTPServer is derived from SocketServer.TCPServer.
This class serves up data using the handle_request() member function.
It looks like this (comments added by me):
    
-----------------------
def handle_request(self):
    try:
        request, client_address = self.get_request()
    except socket.error:
        return
    if self.verify_request(request, client_address):
        try:
            # this will start a new thread
            self.process_request(request, client_address)
        except:
            self.handle_error(request, client_address)
    # this will close the socket still in use by the new thread
    self.close_request(request)
-----------------------
The ThreadingTCPServer, which can be mixed in at a higher point in the
hierarchy, overloads self.process_request() to startup a new thread
for that request. However, once the thread has started, if the thread
running self.handle_request() gets the CPU before the other thread has
finished reading from the request, it will close the request, even
while a thread serving the request is running in the background.
And, self.close_request() closes the socket, so the error message
about _sock being a number is completely explainable. 

So I don't think just adding ThreadingTCPServer could've worked from
the start; and the same problem could possibly happen on the *nix
implementation of ThreadingTCPServer, too.

Solution: 

1) the derived TCPServer has to implement close_request(self) as a
stub function
2) the request class has to implement handle() and at the end of the
function, close the socket.


From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 13:15:52 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:15:52 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [Somewhat Off Topic] AI Contest
In-Reply-To: <3b6d3e72$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108052106010.31299-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 5 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:

>>From SlashDot: http://www.a-i.com/challenge/. A contest for developing
>game-playing bots. I really want to write intelligent agents in Python, and
>this sounds like an interesting exercise.
>
>IMHO the extreme flexibility of data structures and procedures makes Python
>a superb language for AI (whatever that is)

To be good for AI, language must have logic programming support.
(I wonder if Guido thinks in this direction 'cause this requires adding
new keywords ;-)

Anyway, it could be nice to see some logic-programming aids
for Python. It could save stalled Catalog-SIG and help with
Distutils and other logic/knowledge-base/AI intensive tasks.

It is already possible to express assertions/predicates using
Python data-structures, but the solver engine comparable to
Prolog is to be written. Or, yes, Python needs larger
sys.getrecursionlimit() for such tasks...

So, it will be interesting to see such results!

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Wed Aug  8 14:21:34 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:21:34 GMT
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
References: <mailman.997212435.27088.python-list@python.org> <yv2itfz6mvh.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <3b71825f.335040062@news.laplaza.org>

On 08 Aug 2001 09:18:10 +0200, Harald Kirsch
<kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:


:Everyone, (even me) seems to be sure that this calls for something
:sh/sed/awk like. Nevertheless, I'll try a Python one.

I disagree.  sed is unabashedly line-based.  Making it replace
patterns that happen to break across a line is more work than it's
worth, in my opinion.

Don't forget the fileinput module for cases like this.



Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 03:38:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 09:38:03 +0200
Subject: Checking the type of a PyObject
References: <3B75D4D4.61B32D80@adaptiveplanet.com> <Hdod7.27408$c8.8315711@news1.denver1.co.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l5bvc0ei6@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:Hdod7.27408$c8.8315711 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
    ...
> One approach would be the obvious:
>
> Mod_Function( PyObject *self, PyObject *args )  {
>   char * String;
>   long IVal;
>   if (PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "s", &String )) {
>     /* do something with String */
>   } else if (PyArg_ParseTuple( args, "i", &IVal)) {
>     /* do something with IVal */

One caveat: I think you need to reset the error-situation here,
as the first (failing) PyArg_ParseTuple has set the exception
and I don't think this second one resets it (I could be wrong --
no direct experience of this idiom, as I strive to avoid
typechecks whenever I can...).

Another issue is that "i" also accepts and silently truncates
floats, which may or may not be the right thing to do (it's
sure quite different from checking the type of the object
for equality to integer-type:-).

>   } else {
>     return NULL;

And here I think the error message would only mention
needing a string argument, so you probably want to
substitute for it one mentioning both string and int.

>   }
> }


Alex





From machin_john_888 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  2 09:03:36 2001
From: machin_john_888 at hotmail.com (John Machin)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 06:03:36 -0700
Subject: range(2.9); coercions
References: <mailman.996729123.19689.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92ae279c.0108020503.39f38ece@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.996729123.19689.python-list at python.org>...
> [John Machin]
> > Does it concern anyone that range(2.9) *silently* returns [0, 1]?
> 
> Yes.  In particular, it concerns Guido, but there's no obvious way to fix it
> (in general) now without breaking tons of code.

I hope this doesn't start another episode of "Guido Agonistes versus
the Philistines" :-)

> 
> > ...
> > However my real concern is not with the behaviour of range() itself,
> > but with the *general* mechanism by which it gets that answer -- this
> > mechanism would have been used by a large proportion of all the C
> > extension modules ever written.
> 
> Bingo.
> 
> > Unless the birds ate my breadcrumbs while I was stumbling around the
> > source for Python 2.1, what happens is this: the range()
> > implementation calls PyArg_ParseTuple, saying that it expects "i"
> > (integer) argument(s). This is however interpreted to include any
> > instance of a type that has an nb_int slot, or a class that has an
> > __int__() method.
> >
> > So 2.9 is a float, the float type supplies an nb_int slot, and
> > int(2.9) -> 2 and so 2 is used as the open upper bound.
> 
> That's the problem.  nb_int doesn't distinguish the "I'm explicitly and
> intentionally coercing away information" role from the "I'm sure this really
> is an integer, but that it's inconviently in a floating-point format, so
> just change representations" role.
> 
> You didn't get any other response to your note because it's a *real* problem
> <wink>.
> 
> and-possibly-unsolvable-in-practice-if-not-in-theory-ly y'rs  - tim

Possible mitigation or damage control:

(a) Documentation: There doesn't seem to be any documentation of (1)
the exact behaviour of the "i" format (2) that this behaviour is
regarded as inappropriate by the righteous -- there's certainly no
mention of it in the vicinity of the PyArg_ParseTuple docs.

(b) Provision of better alternatives for writers of extension modules:
For example, a format type of "I" which strictly requires an int type
(or at least no loss of information), not something coercible to int,
as does the "i" format.

Then there could be a bit of a crusade to encourage "I" and deprecate
"i".

Just my int(0.02) dollars' worth ...


From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Tue Aug  7 03:05:25 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 09:05:25 +0200
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9kn4rg$a5c$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Message-ID: <yv2zo9c73ka.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman) writes:

> When looping over a list, how about this:
> 
>     lit = iter(haralds_list)
>     for item in lit:
> 	justDoIt(lit)
> 	if someTest(lit):
> 	    break
>     for item in lit:
> 	doSomethingElse(lit)
> 
> It doesn't work if you are using some stone-age version of
> Python, like the two and a half week old 2.1.1.  You've got
> to use something modern, like 2.2a1 (which seems to actually
> be a couple of days *older* than 2.1.1...).

Aah, that's what I was looking for. Too bad I cannot jump right on a
a1 release.

Thanks,
  Harald Kirsch
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From wittner at fossilverlag.de  Thu Aug 30 07:38:49 2001
From: wittner at fossilverlag.de (Toralf Wittner)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:38:49 +0200
Subject: [PyQt] Dropping on ListView
References: <9mis87$fkb$1@news.netcologne.de> <9mjgjr$o2u$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <9ml8id$plr$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> Well, first of all, it's really the QListView that should accept the
> drops, not the main widget - you can just as easily use a QListView as
> a main widget, so I moved the dropEvent code to the QListView.

Yes, you are right of course. I ripped this code fragment out of a larger 
project to make the problem clear and did not noticed that.

> 
> Then, the header takes up some space, too. You need to subtract the
> height of the header from the drop location. Below is some code that
> works (only because it rather messes about to generate drop events,
> it'll segfault nine times out of ten - never mind about that).

I see. Thank you!

Yours sincerely,
Toralf.


From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug  8 15:23:54 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 19:23:54 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n34ea.1lk.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:53:43 -0400, Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> > > > code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody
>> know
>> > > > of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables
>Python
>> > > > stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
>> > >
>> > > What about nedit.
>> >
>> > Aha, another one, so far we have:
>> >
>> > Emacs,
>> > Vim,
>> > Alpha,
>> > Jed,
>> > Nedit,
>> >
>> > that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?
>> >
>> Scintilla.
>
>TextPad

wily,
acme (scripted by anything that can read and write files)


From rharkins at thinkronize.com  Thu Aug  9 12:08:35 2001
From: rharkins at thinkronize.com (Rich Harkins)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:08:35 -0400
Subject: iterating through lists to delete elements
In-Reply-To: <3B72A430.4080309@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <NEBBIGEFDMPMOPJDPFGLEEKPCDAA.rharkins@thinkronize.com>

How about (in Python 2.x-ish):

list=[x for x in list where x <= y]  # assuming you want to keep everything
<= y.

Rich





From cnetzer at Stanford.EDU  Thu Aug 16 17:45:48 2001
From: cnetzer at Stanford.EDU (Chad Franklin Netzer)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:45:48 GMT
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter (or both? w/ threads?)
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <9l97d2$2pkg$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <Xns90FD1B3BF6FB9rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <3B7961E3.B62804C3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru> <n7pbl9.id2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <Xns90FFE9D98B344Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>
Message-ID: <9lheuc$d51$1@usenet.Stanford.EDU>

I have an app that uses Tkinter.  It plots data and
allows for interactive modification of that data.
However, the Tkinter Canvas is so slow that I've also
had to support PyOpenGL rendering (which is a pain
because Togl has "issues").

One thought I've had is to switch completely to another
GUI toolkit, such as wxPython, or PyGtk.  However, I
thought it might be possible to just support the
Canvases (or direct drawing) of another GUI, while
still using Tkinter for the remainder of the interface.

So, can anyone tell me how this might be accomplished.
I made a test program to demonstrate that I could run
both the Tkinter and wxPython mainloops in separate
threads.  What are the limits of this approach (I
assume their will be issues with event handling)?  Is
it really just this simple?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

import threading
import Tkinter
Tk = Tkinter

from wxPython.wx import *

def tk_button_press():
    print "Tkinter button pressed"
    return

def wx_button_press(event):
    print "wxPython button pressed"
    return

class MyWxApp(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = wxFrame(NULL, -1, "Hello from wxPython")
        frame.Show(true)

        wx_button = wxButton(frame, 10, "Hello", wxPoint(20, 20))
        EVT_BUTTON(frame, 10, wx_button_press)

        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true


if __name__ == '__main__':

    tk_root = Tk.Button(text='Tkinter', command=tk_button_press)
    tk_root.pack()

    wx_root = MyWxApp(0)

    t = threading.Thread( target=wx_root.MainLoop )
    t.start()

    tk_root.mainloop()
    t.join()
-- 
Chad Netzer
chad.netzer at stanfordalumni.org



From tjreedy at home.com  Thu Aug 16 12:31:13 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:31:13 GMT
Subject: distributing python programs to non-geeks
References: <c1eb87b.0108160130.519f68d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <lzSe7.108602$EP6.28451686@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Nivel Otri" <nivelnospamotri at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1eb87b.0108160130.519f68d6 at posting.google.com...
> I've got some python and ruby scripts that some people have
expressed
> an interest in being able to run, but most get scared away by having
> to go to install python/ruby, set up a directory for the scripts,
etc.
>  (All are using some flavor of Windows.)

Given that Python is as easy to install as any commercial software, I
am a bit puzzled at the fear.  For any program that works with files -
word processor, etc -- you also have to set up a directory for the
documents.  Maybe you should suggest My Documents/Python.  If there is
some Python-specific difficulty thats been overlooked, I am curious
what it is.

Bundled executables:
PRO: script is bundled with interpreter it runs with.
ANTI: longer download times of bloated package;
space waste of multiple copies of same executable and library

Terry J. Reedy





From xy-han at home.com  Thu Aug  9 04:00:03 2001
From: xy-han at home.com (Larry Han)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:00:03 GMT
Subject: How to call java from python?
References: <mailman.997299794.5386.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7qrc7.7042$ob.1796@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

Thanks Alex, Mark, Ype, Mats and Sam for all of these information !
I love this group ! There are so many smart and kind guys.

Larry

"Sam Penrose" <sam at ddmweb.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997299794.5386.python-list at python.org...
> Several people have noted Jython, which is Python running wholly within
> Java. There is also The "Java-Python Extension", an effort to unite
> "regular" Python (aka "CPython") with Java via a C enxtension to Python
> and a Java Native Interface. See also:
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe>
> and
> <http://www.python9.org/p9-cdrom/10/index.htm>
>



From navink at zip.com.au  Wed Aug 29 06:23:38 2001
From: navink at zip.com.au (Navin Keswani)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 03:23:38 -0700
Subject: Global Interpreter Lock and Callbacks
Message-ID: <fb48afab.0108290223.c3afbd5@posting.google.com>

Hi,  

I ran into a problem with the global interpreter lock (GIL) and
callbacks and think I have solved the problem but would like some
advice as I am new to this ...

The scene:
I call C function "socketPoll" from Python -- socketPoll does some I/O
stuff and then calls a callback function on the stuff its read.

The problem: 
A thread with socketPoll in it didn't allow any other threads to
execute.

The solution:
Wrapped Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS around the I/O
stuff in the C socketPoll code.

A new problem:  
Core dumps when the callback function is called.

Solution:
I used the code underlying the macros -- so I declare a global
variable "save" and I use
save = PyEval_SaveThread(); in place of Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS before
the socketPoll; and,
PyEval_RestoreThread( save ) in place of Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS after
the socketPoll;
I disable the global lock before the callback -- i.e
PyEvalRestoreThread( save )
and then restore the lock after the callback by using save =
PyEval_SaveThread() again.  Why am I not using the macros instead --
well, because the "save" variable within the macros is not declared as
global so the nested locks and unlocks don't sit well with the
compiler.
In summary, I manage to Lock before socketPoll, unlock before the
callback, lock after returning from the callback and then unlock after
returning from socketpoll.

This works!  Except that I don't know for sure that this isn't leaving
a thread state dangling precariously when a thread exits.  The reason
I am nervous is that if I set up a loop to continuously socketPoll in
one thread and have a couple of other threads running with loops doing
other things, exiting the program with a ctrl-C causes core dumps but
only intermittently.

Does anyone see any obvious problems with what I am doing?    

Thanks in advance--

Navin
navink at zip.com.au


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug 28 23:29:39 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:29:39 -0400
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
In-Reply-To: <J4Vi7.172382$rV6.8623803@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEKFLIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Rainer Deyke]
> If you're that picky about accuracy, floats are definitely the wrong
> choice.

[Steve Holden]
> Wrong. Tim isn't being picky about accuracy, he's being picky about
> correctly rounding numbers to the required number of decimal places.

Well, nobody can be pickier about accuracy than me, when I'm in the mood for
it <wink>, but that isn't what's going on here.  The original poster was
clearly a newbie, and floating-point formatting was clearly sufficient for
what he was after, not to mention the least work.  Worrying about fp
extremes wasn't appropriate in context, and giving the poor fellow a
sequence of half-baked integer alternatives that are surprising even in
non-extreme cases is right out.

> ...
> >>> '%.2f' % (0.005)
> '0.01'
> >>> '%.2f' % (0.015)
> '0.01'
> >>> '%.2f' % (0.025)
> '0.03'

The rounding here is trickier than it looks, since none of the inputs
(0.005, 0.015, 0.025) is exactly representable as a binary fp number.
"Trickier" != "unusable", though.

unless-perhaps-you're-rainer<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Mon Aug 20 15:28:44 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:28:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: python.vim - vimscript that acts like emacs->python-mode
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108201420430.2031-200000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>


Hi python people -
	Some of you might remember me saying that I would make a Python
script for Vim, well I tried but I wasn't very good (mine only marks
blocks for now).  OTOH, I did find a script written by Mikael Berthe
<mikael.berthe at efrei.fr> which is pretty good.  I have attached it, and
I found it at <http://vim.sf.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=30>.  I
will hopefully be able to work on that with Mikael, and others.

PS - I'm not subscribed to this list, please Cc to me also when
replying.


-- 
     I always wondered about the meaning of life. so I looked it up in
     the dictionary under "L" and there is was - the meaning of life.
     It was not what I had expected.
               -- Dogbert

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/
-------------- next part --------------
" -*- vim -*-
" FILE: python.vim
" LAST MODIFICATION: 2001/07/07
" (C) Copyright 2001 Mikael Berthe <mikael.berthe at efrei.fr>
" Version: 1.1

" USAGE:
"
" Juste source this script when editing Python files.
" Example: au FileType python source ~me/.vim/scripts/python.vim
" You can set the global variable "g:py_select_leading_comments" to 0
" if you don't want to select comments preceding a declaration (these
" are usually the description of the function/class).
" You can set the global variable "g:py_select_trailing_comments" to 0
" if you don't want to select comments at the end of a function/class.
" If these variables are not defined, both leading and trailing comments
" are selected.
" Example: (in your .vimrc) "let g:py_select_leading_comments = 0"
" You may want to take a look at the 'shiftwidth' option for the
" shift commands...
"
" REQUIREMENTS:
" vim (>= 600)
"
" Shortcuts:
"   [[      -- Jump to beginning of block
"   ]]      -- Jump to end of block
"   ]v      -- Select (Visual Line Mode) block
"   ]<      -- Shift block to left
"   ]>      -- Shift block to right
"   ]c      -- Select current/previous class
"   ]f      -- Select current/previous function
"   ]<up>   -- Jump to previous line with the same/lower indentation
"   ]<down> -- Jump to next line with the same/lower indentation

map  [[   :PBoB<CR>
vmap [[   :<C-U>PBoB<CR>m'gv``
map  ]]   :PEoB<CR>
vmap ]]   :<C-U>PEoB<CR>m'gv``

map  ]v   [[V]]
map  ]<   [[V]]<
vmap ]<   <
map  ]>   [[V]]>
vmap ]>   >

map  ]c   :call PythonSelectObject("class")<CR>
map  ]f   :call PythonSelectObject("function")<CR>

map  ]<up>    :call PythonNextLine(-1)<CR>
map  ]<down>  :call PythonNextLine(1)<CR>
" You may prefer use <s-up> and <s-down>... :-)



" Menu entries
nmenu <silent> &Python.Beginning\ of\ Block<Tab>[[ 
    \[[
nmenu <silent> &Python.End\ of\ Block<Tab>]] 
    \]]
nmenu &Python.-Sep1- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Left<Tab>]< 
    \]<
vmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Left<Tab>]< 
    \]<
nmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Right<Tab>]> 
    \]>
vmenu <silent> &Python.Shift\ Block\ Right<Tab>]> 
    \]>
nmenu &Python.-Sep2- :
vmenu <silent> &Python.Comment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonCommentSelection()<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Comment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonCommentSelection()<CR>
vmenu <silent> &Python.Uncomment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonUncommentSelection()<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Uncomment\ Selection 
    \:call PythonUncommentSelection()<CR>
nmenu &Python.-Sep3- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Previous\ Class 
    \:call PythonDec("class", -1)<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Next\ Class 
    \:call PythonDec("class", 1)<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Previous\ Function 
    \:call PythonDec("function", -1)<CR>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Next\ Function 
    \:call PythonDec("function", 1)<CR>
nmenu &Python.-Sep4- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Select\ Block<Tab>]v 
    \]v
nmenu <silent> &Python.Select\ Function<Tab>]f 
    \]f
nmenu <silent> &Python.Select\ Class<Tab>]c 
    \]c
nmenu &Python.-Sep5- :
nmenu <silent> &Python.Previous\ Line\ wrt\ indent<Tab>]<up> 
    \]<up>
nmenu <silent> &Python.Next\ Line\ wrt\ indent<Tab>]<down> 
    \]<down>


:com! PBoB execute "normal ".PythonBoB(line('.'), -1, 1)."G"
:com! PEoB execute "normal ".PythonBoB(line('.'), 1, 1)."G"



" Go to a block boundary (-1: previous, 1: next)
" If force_sel_comments is true, 'g:py_select_trailing_comments' is ignored
function! PythonBoB(line, direction, force_sel_comments)
  let ln = a:line
  let ind = indent(ln)
  let mark = ln
  let indent_valid = strlen(getline(ln))
  let ln = ln + a:direction
  if (a:direction == 1) && (!a:force_sel_comments) && 
      \ exists("g:py_select_trailing_comments") && 
      \ (!g:py_select_trailing_comments)
    let sel_comments = 0
  else
    let sel_comments = 1
  endif

  while((ln >= 1) && (ln <= line('$')))
    if  (sel_comments) || (match(getline(ln), "^\\s*#") == -1)
      if (!indent_valid)
        let indent_valid = strlen(getline(ln))
        let ind = indent(ln)
        let mark = ln
      else
        if (strlen(getline(ln)))
          if (indent(ln) < ind)
            break
          endif
          let mark = ln
        endif
      endif
    endif
    let ln = ln + a:direction
  endwhile

  return mark
endfunction


" Go to previous (-1) or next (1) class/function definition
function! PythonDec(obj, direction)
  if (a:obj == "class")
    let objregexp = "^\\s*class\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+"
        \ . "\\s*\\((\\([a-zA-Z0-9_,. \\t\\n]\\)*)\\)\\=\\s*:"
  else
    let objregexp = "^\\s*def\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+\\s*(\\_[^:#]*)\\s*:"
  endif
  let flag = "W"
  if (a:direction == -1)
    let flag = flag."b"
  endif
  let res = search(objregexp, flag)
endfunction


" Comment out selected lines
" commentString is inserted in non-empty lines, and should be aligned with
" the block
function! PythonCommentSelection()  range
  let commentString = "#"
  let cl = a:firstline
  let ind = 1000    " I hope nobody use so long lines! :)

  " Look for smallest indent
  while (cl <= a:lastline)
    if strlen(getline(cl))
      let cind = indent(cl)
      let ind = ((ind < cind) ? ind : cind)
    endif
    let cl = cl + 1
  endwhile
  if (ind == 1000)
    let ind = 1
  else
    let ind = ind + 1
  endif

  let cl = a:firstline
  execute ":".cl
  " Insert commentString in each non-empty line, in column ind
  while (cl <= a:lastline)
    if strlen(getline(cl))
      execute "normal ".ind."|i".commentString
    endif
    execute "normal j"
    let cl = cl + 1
  endwhile
endfunction

" Uncomment selected lines
function! PythonUncommentSelection()  range
  " commentString could be different than the one from CommentSelection()
  " For example, this could be "# \\="
  let commentString = "#"
  let cl = a:firstline
  while (cl <= a:lastline)
    let ul = substitute(getline(cl),
             \"\\(\\s*\\)".commentString."\\(.*\\)$", "\\1\\2", "")
    call setline(cl, ul)
    let cl = cl + 1
  endwhile
endfunction


" Select an object ("class"/"function")
function! PythonSelectObject(obj)
  " Go to the object declaration
  normal $
  call PythonDec(a:obj, -1)
  let beg = line('.')

  if !exists("g:py_select_leading_comments") || (g:py_select_leading_comments)
    let decind = indent(beg)
    let cl = beg
    while (cl>1)
      let cl = cl - 1
      if (indent(cl) == decind) && (getline(cl)[decind] == "#")
        let beg = cl
      else
        break
      endif
    endwhile
  endif

  if (a:obj == "class")
    let eod = "\\(^\\s*class\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+\\s*"
            \ . "\\((\\([a-zA-Z0-9_,. \\t\\n]\\)*)\\)\\=\\s*\\)\\@<=:"
  else
   let eod = "\\(^\\s*def\\s\\+[a-zA-Z0-9_]\\+\\s*(\\_[^:#]*)\\s*\\)\\@<=:"
  endif
  " Look for the end of the declaration (not always the same line!)
  call search(eod, "")

  " Is it a one-line definition?
  if match(getline('.'), "^\\s*\\(#.*\\)\\=$", col('.')) == -1
    let cl = line('.')
    execute ":".beg
    execute "normal V".cl."G"
  else
    " Select the whole block
    normal j
    let cl = line('.')
    execute ":".beg
    execute "normal V".PythonBoB(cl, 1, 0)."G"
  endif
endfunction


" Jump to the next line with the same (or lower) indentation
" Useful for moving between "if" and "else", for example.
function! PythonNextLine(direction)
  let ln = line('.')
  let ind = indent(ln)
  let indent_valid = strlen(getline(ln))
  let ln = ln + a:direction

  while((ln >= 1) && (ln <= line('$')))
    if (!indent_valid) && strlen(getline(ln)) 
        break
    else
      if (strlen(getline(ln)))
        if (indent(ln) <= ind)
          break
        endif
      endif
    endif
    let ln = ln + a:direction
  endwhile

  execute "normal ".ln."G"
endfunction


" vim:set et sts=2 sw=2:

From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Thu Aug 16 17:08:38 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 14:08:38 -0700
Subject: zlib compressionobj use: what am I missing?
Message-ID: <9lhcom$8ao$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

Hi all, I'm working on a patch to the zlibmodule, but I can't get this
bit of code for testing compression objects to work at all.  Should it?
If not, what am I doing wrong??

Help! ;)

---
    import zlib
    file = open('to-compress')
    
    compobj = zlib.compressobj(1)
    compdata = ''
    while 1:
        data = file.read(1000)
        if data:
            compdata += compobj.compress(data)
        else:
            break

    compdata += compobj.flush()

    zlib.decompress(compdata)
-

thanks,
--titus

ps note that this is being run against Python 2.2 from CVS, but the zlibmodule
hasn't changed for a while, so 2.1 users should have the same version I'm
using.


From SSchukat at dspace.de  Mon Aug 20 13:07:50 2001
From: SSchukat at dspace.de (Stefan Schukat)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:07:50 +0100
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13AD55@newsintern.dspace.de>


> "Maurizio Manetti" wrote:
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > 
> > "Maurizio Manetti" <maurizio.manetti at arca.net> wrote in message
> > news:3B80ED4F.F37FA70 at arca.net...
> > > I have the following dummy script:
> > >
> > > import win32con
> > > import win32ui
> > >
> > > win32ui.MessageBox("Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)
> > >
> > > When I run it from PythonWin it works as expected.
> > > If I save it on a script ".py" file and launch it (double click,
> > > associated with pythonw) I get the following error:
> >     ...
> > > I found this problem on two different Win machine (Win98 
> with Python 2.0
> > > and WinMe with Python 2.1.1)
> > >
> > > Does anyone know why? And how to solve the problem?
> > 
> > Works fine for me on NT4 with Python 2.1.1.  I don't see any
> > obvious reason why it should fail so horribly, either.
> 
> Yes, you are right, it's just a call to a windows API, but that's what
> happen to me.
> I also tried to reinstall pythonwin, but nothing changes.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

The win32ui is not just a call into the windows API. It depends
on the framework used. Normally this is used in an application 
which is based on the Python MFC wrapping by MarkH.
The pure windows API is implemented in the win32api module in 
which your code would look like: 

import win32con
import win32api
win32api.MessageBox(0, "Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)

As you see there is an additional first parameter. This is
the HANDLE to the parent window which is filled automagically
in the win32ui environment.

But that is not your problem. The problem is a small error 
in the win32ui implementation. Mark has used a windows hook
to do the message routing. This hook was added twice by accident in
a console app which caused an endless recursion and 
therefore a stack overflow in Win9X/ME, but not on WinNT/2000. 
The fix (more a hack) was included in the CVS sources at the 6. July.
So it may be included in ActivePython 211 (Ask Mark)

	Stefan 





From tsatter at purecode.com  Thu Aug  9 23:43:47 2001
From: tsatter at purecode.com (Tom Satter)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:43:47 -0600
Subject: ANN: Python module for dealing with timezones
Message-ID: <19lvk9.818.ln@tethys.purecode.com>

I have written a script to allow timezone information to be
used within Python.  The script can be found at:

http://www.purecode.com/~tsatter/python/

The zi2py script takes timezone information given in the format
specified by the timezone info files that can be found at:

ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata*.tar.gz

The program then writes out a file called zoneinfo.py
which may be imported to allow timezone information to
be used in a python program.

Available functions:

allZoneNames()
    Returns a list of all of the supported timezone names.

localZoneNames(name)
    Returns a two-tuple.  The first value is a list of the names
    immediately below the given name that are directories.  The
    second value is a list of the names immediately below the given
    name that are zone names.  Returns two empty lists if the
    given name is a zone name.  Returns None if the name given is
    not a zone name or a zone directory.

getZone(name)
    Returns a zone data structure given the timezone name.

zonetime(zone, secs)
    Convert a time expressed in seconds since the epoch to a time tuple
    for the given zone.  The zone should be a zone data structure
    returned by the getZone function.  The time will be converted with
    the correct daylight savings time for the given zone and time.
    Fractions of a second are ignored.  See the time module for a
    description of the tuple lay-out.

--
tom -- just plain old tom
tsatter at purecode.com




From R.Liebscher at gmx.de  Thu Aug 30 03:56:48 2001
From: R.Liebscher at gmx.de (Rene Liebscher)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:56:48 +0200
Subject: [PyOpenGL] multiple screens and Tkinter/Togl
References: <200108300145.SAA213366@goliath.scripps.edu>
Message-ID: <3B8DF1C0.838AEB77@gmx.de>

Michel Sanner wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have 2 screens on my unix box and I can use the screenName argument to get a
> Tkinter.Tk instance to appear on either screen. But when I try to create an togl
> Widget I get an Xserver error that kills my python interpreter. Here is the code
> creating the problem
> 
> import Tkinter
> r1 = Tkinter.Tk(screenName=":0.0")
> r1.tk.call('package', 'require', 'Togl')
> r2 = Tkinter.Tk(screenName=":0.1")
> r2.tk.call('package', 'require', 'Togl')
> f1 = Tkinter.Frame(r1)
> f2 = Tkinter.Frame(r2)
> f1.pack()
> f2.pack()
> 
> class OGL(Tkinter.Widget):
>     def __init__(self, master, ident):
>         cnf = ()
>         kw = {'double':1} #, 'depth':1, 'accum':1, 'ident':ident}
>         Tkinter.Widget.__init__(self, master, 'togl', cnf, kw )
> 
> o1 = OGL(f1, '1')
> o2 = OGL(f2, '2')
> 
> X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
>   Major opcode of failed request:  1 (X_CreateWindow)
>   Serial number of failed request:  149
>   Current serial number in output stream:  151
> 
> My 2 screens have different resolution and depth but it does not seem to be a
> problem for regulat Tk widgets.
> 
> I am also wondering if the fact the screenName is an argument to Tk means that a
> Tkinter application cannot have windows on 2 screens at the same time (unless
> they do not share the same interpreter).
> 
> Any Ideas or comments would be very welcome
> 
> -Michel
> 
This might be a problem in Togl.

I don't know enough about X to find the problem, but 
I found the following.


In togl.c there are some uses of the DefaultScreen macro.
For this macro I found these description:
-----------------------------------------------
DefaultScreen

DefaultScreen(display)

int XDefaultScreen(display)
      Display *display;


display  Specifies the connection to the X server.  

Both return the default screen number referenced by the XOpenDisplay()
function. 
This macro or function should be used to retrieve the screen number in
applications 
that will use only a single screen.
-----------------------------------------------
You see that "in applications that will use only a single screen."

It might help to change this.
(See also
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=222132&group_id=519&atid=100519
there is also a description of a problem with DefaultScreen,
They recommend to use Tk_ScreenNumber(togl->TkWin) )


The XCreateWindow function has no parameter screen, 
but the call of glXChooseVisual has. Using a wrong screen parameter
here might lead to a wrong visual which makes XCreateWindow
to complain about it.  

I don't know if any of these hints help, but if it works we 
should put it in the CVS.


Kind regards
Rene



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 18 00:40:32 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:40:32 -0400
Subject: A modest suggestion for unittest.py
References: <mailman.998067328.32366.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7DF1C0.9BEAD370@engcorp.com>

Rich Harkins wrote:
> 
> Would it be okay with everyone if there was some option added to the
> TestProgram (invoked by default when using unittest.main()) so that it does
> not perform a sys.exit() when it is done running tests?  This would make it
> easier to run some tests and then drop through to the interpreter with -i.

I'm not sure this would work, but couldn't you do something like this 
somewhere in the code before the tests are executed?

>>> import sys
>>> def do_not_exit():
...   print 'sys.exit() caught and ignored.'
...
>>> sys.exit = do_not_exit

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From mark21rowe at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 00:32:31 2001
From: mark21rowe at yahoo.com (Mark Rowe)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:32:31 +1200
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net> <3B789CC6.2FD7FFB5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3b78b4b2@news.actrix.gen.nz>

>From the Win32 Platform SDK - CreateFile function:

Disk Devices
Windows NT: You can use the CreateFile function to open a disk drive or a
partition on a disk drive. The function returns a handle to the disk device;
that handle can be used with the DeviceIOControl function. The following
requirements must be met in order for such a call to succeed:

The caller must have administrative privileges for the operation to succeed
on a hard disk drive.
The lpFileName string should be of the form \\.\PHYSICALDRIVEx to open the
hard disk x. Hard disk numbers start at zero. For example:
String Meaning
\\.\PHYSICALDRIVE2 Obtains a handle to the third physical drive on the
user's computer.

The lpFileName string should be \\.\x: to open a floppy drive x or a
partition x on a hard disk. For example:
String Meaning
\\.\A: Obtains a handle to drive A on the user's computer.
\\.\C: Obtains a handle to drive C on the user's computer.


Mark


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B789CC6.2FD7FFB5 at engcorp.com...
> Juan Huertas wrote:
> >
> > Hi all.
> >
> > My pc has a DAT tape (Windows 2000 Tape0) and i need to read the content
of
> > a tape with unix format, using low level I'ts possible to read from the
> > device inside python?.
> >
> > I try:
> >
> > dat=open('\\.\Tape0','rb').read()
> >
> > but the system does not open the file (ilegal file name: \\.\Tape0).
>
> Why did you believe \.\TAPE0 was a valid file name in the first
> place?  I don't know W2K, but under previous versions of that
> operating system that file name is just equivalent to \TAPE0,
> meaning it would have to look like a file in the root directory
> (of the current drive, maybe C:, maybe not).  I'm not expert on
> tape drives under W2K, but I suspect that's not the case.
> This may not be a Python question, unless you can successfully
> access the drive as a file using some other program.  Can
> you just use "TYPE \\.\TAPE0" and get something?  I doubt it.
>
> Or is this a way of referring to a shared device named \TAPE0
> under the current computer (using \\. instead of \\COMPUTERNAME)?
> I've never seen that before, and it isn't valid under W98.
>
> I'm also suspicious as to whether a DAT tape under W2K would
> look like a file at all.  Usually Windows tape drives end
> up being available only through special device drivers to
> applications which know about tapes.  *Unix* is prone to
> making all things look like files, so maybe you've taken
> what was a valid path under Unix and tried to use it under
> W2K?  (i.e. the original device was addressed as /./tape0
> under Unix?)  That wouldn't work either.
>
> I don't like posting something so fundamentally unhelpful,
> but nobody else beat me to it ... :)




From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 10 10:36:54 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:36:54 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Setting file creation date
In-Reply-To: <9l0fuf1287j@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108101828560.3677-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

>"Fredrik Seehusen" <fse at npt.no> wrote in message
>news:e77b4645.0108100226.4cfaf671 at posting.google.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> How do I set the creation date when opening a file, or override the
>> creation date of a given file (... if it is possible in python)?
>>
>> This has to be done in Windows NT by the way :(
>
>os.utime lets you set the accessed and modified dates, but I
>don't think NT lets you change creation-date -- you'd have to
>change your computer's date, create a new file copying the
>old one, etc, etc, I suspect.

Sorry for my total ignorance of NT, but AFAIK UNIX/Linux do not
have file creation date stored:

st = os.stat(file)
print "last access", ctime(st[stat.ST_ATIME])
print "last modification", ctime(st[stat.ST_MTIME])
print "last status change", ctime(st[stat.ST_CTIME])

- is all you get there. First one record when file was accessed
last time (this feature could be switched off on some filesystems
to have better performance), mtime is file _contents_
modification time and ctime is file status information
modification time.

(I long time thought ctime is about creation time, but
then understood I was wrong.)

Also I remember, Macintosh had file creation time stored,
but Windows 9x store only two times (probably mtime and ctime).

atime and mtime are quite easy to change, and the nature
of ctime is more subtle.

So, I wonder where creation date is used and how it survives
archiving...

>Alex

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 10, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "This mind intentionally left blank." _/




From robinjim at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 17 09:41:12 2001
From: robinjim at earthlink.net (robin and jim)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:41:12 GMT
Subject: Art of Unit Testing
References: <mailman.998013446.19337.python-list@python.org> <3b7ccedc$0$2974$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl> <q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Y99f7.3484$D4.236773@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Moore" <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com> wrote in message
news:q36qnto1nrrvkch2a3b7ck0e657iaoma8d at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:00:46 +0200, Boudewijn Rempt
<boudewijn at tryllian.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I've found little value in writing unittests for GUI apps (and that
> >includes games), but lots of use for unittests in the underlying
libraries.
>
> One thing that I've not seen pointed out anywhere (it doesn't even seem to
be
> in the manual!) is that to write simple tests is pretty much trivial:
>
> import unittest
>
> class Tests(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test1(self):
>         self.assertEquals(1,1)
>     def test2(self):
>         self.assertEquals(1,2)
>
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     unittest.main()
>
> Basically, it looks like unittest.main() scans the code for classes
derived
> from unittest.TestCase, and runs all methods whose names start with 'test'
as
> test cases.
>
> This makes writing a series of simple, repetitive, tests very
straightforward.
> Obviously, for more complex cases, you need the more complex
infrastructure,
> but I have to say that *not* emphasising how simple it is to write basic
> tests, does put people off. (It certainly put me off!)
>
> One point with this form of test: If I add a setUp() or a tearDown()
method,
> they are called before and after *each* test, rather than once at the
start
> and end of the suite of tests. But without this stuff being documented,
I'm
> not sure if this should be considered "correct"...
>
> Paul.
>
>
You are quite correct (according to my version of the documentation -- and
in my experience with using the tool); setUp and tearDown are called for
each test so you always start and end from a known state. <wink>




From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Aug  2 01:51:18 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 05:51:18 -0000
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: None <mailman.996717423.7742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <996731475.630148@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>

Quoth <brueckd at tbye.com>:
| On 1 Aug 2001, Donn Cave wrote:
|
| > | Right. My assertion is that this causes more problems than it solves
| > | because you seldom know your "intent" in that much detail, much less your
| > | future intent. Seems like ultra strict type checking might work well in
|
| > OK, another example, happy to be able to accommodate your request.
| > >From today's comp.lang.python, someone asks, how come my program
| > doesn't work?  His case seems a ways away from space station control.
| >
| ...
|
| > And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
| > He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
| > of figure it out himself.
|
| [ snipped 10 lines of Python ]
| [ snipped 30 - 40 lines of type-checking OCaml ]
|
| > Hope you find this useful.
|
| Very! Thank you. Here's what it shows me:
|
| - A Python newbie like the original poster is going to get a heck of a lot
| further than an OCaml newbie trying to accomplish the same thing in a
| strict type-checking way (I wonder how many posts he would have sent to
| c.l.ocaml?). A veteren Pythonista won't have too many chances for causing
| that bug because the Python version will be so short and simple.

A Perl version could be shorter yet, maybe half the lines.  So even
fewer bugs?

| - The cost of finding the Python bug (type-related or not) is probably
| quite lower than the cost of finding a bug in the same OCaml code. If
| nothing there's 66 to 75% fewer lines of code to sift through so you'll
| narrow the search a lot quicker (I realize you're new to OCaml, but the
| poster is new to Python).

The compiler sifted through the lines of code.

| - If the function later needs to be modified to be more flexible with
| different types or even just a little extra functionality, the Python one
| is gonna be a breeze. I'd feel confident about a quick change followed by
| some quick testing. I'd feel much more nervous about modifying the other
| one.

Fine!  You'll overcome your nervousness, sit down and start coding
in those new types or whatever.  Maybe later, you'd do it with more
confidence.  But confident or not, OCaml won't let you go until you
have accounted for those new types, wherever necessary in the program.
OCaml doesn't let your confidence become a liability.

| - After a little experience using Python, the cost of finding that bug
| will drop dramatically (how long would it take you, Donn, to figure it
| out? 30 seconds maybe?) as will the likelihood of that bug occurring, but
| the cost of creating the OCaml type-checking version will remain more or
| less constant - you'll always have to write about that much code. So
| you'll fight your way through the learning curve only to find that by
| doing so what you learned just went down in value. ;-)

Perversely missing the point.  For sure, once the bug came to my
attention, it took much less than 30 seconds to find it.  But should
we count the time it took my client to get me a traceback?  The time
it the solution took getting to the client, properly installed?
If I spent extra hours wrestling with a few lines of code, and the
reward is a modest improvement in reliability, it might well be worth
it even if I don't do space shuttle gigs.  If I spent the same time
staring at my Python code, that bug might or might not jump out at
me.  Or I could test the bejeezus out of it, which would surely take
much longer, and the magic inputs to get to that bug might or might
not come up.

I don't mean to pitch OCaml here, this is about types and Python.
OCaml just happens to be the most serious type checking language
I sort of barely know, and maybe it's a poor example because the
parts that were really about type checking were sort of lost in
the noise.  (Yet that was actually part of the point - type
checking per se doesn't need to add wads of declarations.)

But your criticisms seem a little misguided.  If your point is
that Python is good for quick hacks, and OCaml isn't, fine.  I'll
buy that.  But what about type checking and serious programming?

I guess you don't want any more examples of problems type checking
could solve?

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From guido at python.org  Sun Aug 12 15:21:03 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:21:03 GMT
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997597698.3371.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpbsllf5ml.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Glyph Lefkowitz <glyph at twistedmatrix.com> writes:

> As I mentioned in my other email, I think that less efficient should be
> the default.  _Usually_ you need dynamism, although it would certainly be
> a good thing to have a more efficient way in some cases!

That may be usually for *your* classes :-).  Most of *my* classes
don't need this.  If the default is static, most users will not have
to change it (if my expectation is right that most classes don't need
to be dynamic), and so most classes will benefit from the speed-up of
static classes.  Since classes that need to be dynamic are naturally
discovered during coding or testing (they give errors when trying to
change a class), selectively turning on the dynamics is easy -- and it
requires an explicit decision on the programmer's behalf.

On the other hand, if the default were dynamic (as it is for classic
classes), it will be very tedious to tune an application for speed --
because all classes are dynamic by default, use of dynamicism may have
crept into the design that requires expensive refactoring before a
class can be made static.

Maybe I'll make this a module-global default, like __metaclass__.
Also note that if a base class is dynamic, its subclasses inherit the
dynamic property by default.  (You can still derive a static class
from a dynamic base by saying __dynamic__ = 0.)

> > What do you mean by "real reference replacement"?
> 
> I think I meant "wishful thinking about python being more like
> smalltalk" :-)

But there already *is* a Smalltalk.  There's no point in trying to
compete for another language's niche.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 20 10:10:41 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:10:41 +0200
Subject: Problem with win32ui MessageBox
References: <3B80ED4F.F37FA70@arca.net>
Message-ID: <9lr62m01p83@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Maurizio Manetti" <maurizio.manetti at arca.net> wrote in message
news:3B80ED4F.F37FA70 at arca.net...
> I have the following dummy script:
>
> import win32con
> import win32ui
>
> win32ui.MessageBox("Test Message", 'Test', win32con.MB_OK)
>
> When I run it from PythonWin it works as expected.
> If I save it on a script ".py" file and launch it (double click,
> associated with pythonw) I get the following error:
    ...
> I found this problem on two different Win machine (Win98 with Python 2.0
> and WinMe with Python 2.1.1)
>
> Does anyone know why? And how to solve the problem?

Works fine for me on NT4 with Python 2.1.1.  I don't see any
obvious reason why it should fail so horribly, either.


Alex





From tom-list at home.com  Fri Aug 17 13:37:12 2001
From: tom-list at home.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:37:12 -0400
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b7d5619_8@Usenet.com>

Hi.

I think it would be very hard to come up with a price per line.  The
difficulty of the task will vary considerably with the nature of the Python
code.  Some examples:

Converting Python code that uses wxPython to C++ code with wxWindows is a
snap.
Sometimes you can copy the C source code for a Python module directly into
your C++ program.
On the other hand, if the Python program makes much use of the dynamic
paradigm (which good Python programs should), then it will be very difficult
to convert to C++.  When I prototype in Python for later conversion to C++ I
avoid dynamic programming.

I've also sent you an E-mail.

Tom.

"Henrik Ekelund" <henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85 at posting.google.com...
> We have to convert a large system (10000 lines) written in Python to
> C++. Does anybody have experience with doing an actual conversion of a
> working Python prototype to C++? We will probably have to offer the
> work at a fixed price, so how many hours does it take to convert X
> lines of Python code to C++? Are there any pitfalls?



 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------        
                http://www.usenet.com


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Aug 28 15:35:37 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:35:37 +0100
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108282015180.76-100000@central>
References: <HWOAyXAESii7EwlO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108282015180.76-100000@central>
Message-ID: <Yb9XBLAJK$i7Ew3w@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In message <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108282015180.76-100000 at central>, Andrew
MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> writes
...
>If the binary Python package you've installed was built on a newer FreeBSD
>(which seems likely from what I've gleaned from your posts) this is not
>surprising, as the configure script would have found the errant header on
>the newer system.
...
the freeBSD questions list seems uncertain about wchar, but I guess maye
the python maintainer has quite an advanced system. I guess I can build
the port from source and it should be OK.
-- 
Robin Becker



From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 09:47:13 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:47:13 GMT
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080504.613.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9opsnd.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <mailman.999080504.613.python-list at python.org>, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>> I can't think of a time when I've ever seen Python stop. Slow
>> down, yes, but not stop.
>>
>> The truth is, even if there is something you can't do in Python
>> natively, you always have the capability to write a module in C
>> that is callable from Python.
>>
>> So the answer, then, is that Python stops wherever C stops. And
>> I don't think there's a person alive who's EVER seen C stop. I
>> could be wrong though.
> 
> What about OS kernel modules? You can write them in C, but can
> you do it in Python?

Not for any existing OSes.  

I don't think it wouldn't be very hard to put a Python
byte-code interpreter into kernel space under Linux.  The
"deeply embedded" Python project has already done a lot of the
work since they've got a version of Python that runs w/o an OS.

But nobody has taken the time to do it.  Sounds like a good
grad-school project to me.

I think that writing a Python interpreter in VHDL is the
definitive answer...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I think my career
                                  at               is ruined!
                               visi.com            


From bbollenbach at home.com  Wed Aug 15 09:18:47 2001
From: bbollenbach at home.com (Brad Bollenbach)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 06:18:47 -0700
Subject: Module Name
References: <mailman.997870463.28881.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <534e2bf6.0108150518.7dcaf6b@posting.google.com>

The Python manual has an example snippet of how to "fake" your own
import.

import string

def my_import(name):
    mod = __import__(name)
    components = string.split(name, '.')
    for comp in components[1:]:
        mod = getattr(mod, comp)
    return mod

__import__ is a builtin function that Python's import statement calls.
The for loop ensures that if you're importing a module from a package
(ie. the "z" in x.y.z) that the "mod" variable will actually hold the
module, and not the package.

For more, see http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html.

Hans Nowak <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message news:<mailman.997870463.28881.python-list at python.org>...
> >===== Original Message From "Kerim Borchaev" <warkid at storm.ru> =====
>  
> >so the question is : How can I implement addModule?
>  
> >def addModule(suite, module):
> >    __import__(module)
> >    suite.addTest(unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(module))
> >
> >doesnt execute any test.  loadTestsFromModule doesn't work - and I
> >can't understand why...
> 
> I have no experience with unittest, but I think that
> 
>   module = __import__(module)
> 
> should work. I figure loadTestsFroModule needs a module object, rather than a 
> string, which is what it gets now.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> --Hans Nowak


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Aug  6 03:37:36 2001
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 07:37:36 GMT
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
References: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my> <j4k80ma03o.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3B6B08A2.8070904@palefish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9klhg0$1frt$2@news.idiom.com>

In article <3B6B08A2.8070904 at palefish.co.uk>, chris hinds wrote:

> I got exactly the same error trying to build python 2.1.1 on Redhat 7.0 
> and afaik I've got the latest RH glibc et al. Has anyone had any luck 
> making on RH7.0?

> I suppose the fact that it all builds perfectly on my suse and debian 
> boxes perhaps suggests that I aught to go and wrestle with bugzilla.redhat?

 It suggests to me that you should dump Red Hat.  At least
 vow to stay way from their (infamous) .0 releases.  I personally won't
 touch any Red Hat until x.2 (and I've used 3.03, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, and
 --- unfortunately --- 7.0).  I prefer Debian; where Debian's *unstable*
 has generally been better than Red Hat's .2's

 (In all fairness Red Hat does produce a pretty good product, by the
 time it get's to the .2 releases; and Debian is far too difficult
 for most newbies or even most recent Linux converts.  Red Hat's pushing
 the ragged bleeding edge in their .0 releases is pretty deliberate, and
 they'll have to give that up pretty soon).




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Aug 31 07:17:50 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:17:50 +0200
Subject: Newbie needs Help(sorry)
References: <20010830223410.13049.00000310@mb-bg.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9mnrs602i70@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Patio87" <patio87 at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010830223410.13049.00000310 at mb-bg.aol.com...
> I was wondering how I can scan my computer for my IP address in python

Note that, in general, a computer need not have just ONE IP address.
Roughly, an IP address corresponds to a network *interface* -- but
it's also possible to have more than one address on an interface (so
called "IP aliasing").  To make sure you get at _all_ IP addresses
of your computer will need platform-specific techniques (assuming
your userid has the permission to access that information).  Scanning
the text output by such system-specific programs as ipconfig on Win32
machines and ifconfig on Unix-like machines may be the simplest way.

> If someone could tell me how to do that it would be very appreciated and
im
> just 14 and still learning the languge so be easy please.
>
>  I was also wondering how people make all those programs that scan
computers
> for information and stuff. Because I cant find anything like that I dont
know
> where to lear to do that stuff?

Before dealing with programs, it's best to get an overall picture
of the subject.  "Hacking Exposed", 2nd edition (see the book's URL,
http://www.hackingexposed.com/) is an easy to read introduction (I
think a 3rd edition is due soon, and the Linux-specific edition may
be more updated if you do know something about Linux).  And before
all the mirrors of +Fravia's works get around to respecting his
request to cease operating, you might want to use Google to locate
them and grab their contents -- one day you might be interested
in some part of that material.  Then, you need a good grounding in
TCP/IP and related protocols -- while costly, Stevens' "TCP/IP
Illustrated", first volume, is non-pareil, and his "Unix Network
Programming", second edition, volume 1, is also superb (I think
all of Stevens' books were masterpieces, and that we all lost a
great author when he passed away).

Once you do know this stuff, Python can help you deal with it,
of course -- but, Python can't *teach* you how TCP/IP works, how
crackers of various kinds operate (so you can ward against their
wiles, one hopes), and so on, anywhere as well as good books can.


Alex





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Aug 28 17:32:13 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:32:13 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <mailman.999028783.18165.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x5Ui7.53338$c8.23437612@news1.denver1.co.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.999028783.18165.python-list at python.org...
> [Tim]
> > ...
> > My bet is the poster would rather, e.g., see '0.67' than '0.66' given
> > a=2 and b=3.  If you're going to fake fp by hand, then you're
> > responsible for faking all of it, incl. sensible rounding.
>
> [Rainer Deyke]
> > c = (((a * 200) / b) + 1) / 2
> > s = '%03d' % c
> > file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])
>
> So that, e.g., 1/200 rounds to '0.01', but (-1)/200 rounds to '0.00' and
> loses the minus sign?  '%.2f' looks better all the time <0.2f wink>.

If you're that picky about accuracy, floats are definitely the wrong choice.

>>> '%.2f' % (0.005)
'0.01'
>>> '%.2f' % (0.015)
'0.01'
>>> '%.2f' % (0.025)
'0.03'

If you want symmetry about 0, that's easy enough:

c = (((abs(a) * 200) / abs(b)) + 1) / 2
if a < 0: c = -c
if b < 0: c = -c
s = '%03d' % c
file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])

But why stop there?  Why not use accountant rounding (i.e. when rounding to
the nearest multiple of N, if a number is exactly between two multiples of
N, pick the one which is a multiple of 2 * N)?

c / (a * 100) / b
n = (a * 100) % b
if n * 2 > b: c += 1
elif n * 2 == b:
  c += (c & 1)
s = '%03d' % c
file.write(s[:-2] + '.' + s[-2:])


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Aug 16 12:19:33 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:19:33 GMT
Subject: sockets broken on New Install???
References: <shpnnto9suuk1smhikbloappjapn3rqjg6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3ksnntkre6crdiukn8j7alnu7v8rb7i9kl@4ax.com>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:37:11 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<shpnnto9suuk1smhikbloappjapn3rqjg6 at 4ax.com>:

:119 tests OK.
:4 tests failed: test___all__ test_asynchat test_socket test_sundry
:16 tests skipped: test_al test_cd test_cl test_dl test_gl test_imgfile
:test_largefile test_linuxaudiodev test_minidom test_nis test_pyexpat
:test_sax test_socketserver test_sunaudiodev test_winreg test_winsound
:make: *** [test] Error 1
:
:Having sockets not work is a real problem.

Well, here is an additional clue. I checked the config.log file for
"socket" and find this message:

configure:3264: checking for socket in -lsocket
configure:3283: gcc -o conftest -g -O2   conftest.c -lsocket -ldl  -ldl
1>&5
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lsocket
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
configure: failed program was:
#line 3272 "configure"
#include "confdefs.h"
/* Override any gcc2 internal prototype to avoid an error.  */
/* We use char because int might match the return type of a gcc2
    builtin and then its argument prototype would still apply.  */
char socket();

int main() {
socket()
; return 0; }


I guess I have to ask my admin where the lsocket is??? I dunno?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Aug  2 12:38:19 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 02 Aug 2001 18:38:19 +0200
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
References: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my>
Message-ID: <j4k80ma03o.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Boey Pak Cheong <hlboey at pl.jaring.my> writes:

> From my limited knowledge, I looked at pyport.h and figured that
> LONG_BIT must be defined somewhere else since sizeof(long) is defined as
> 
> 4. But I just can't figure out where. Has anyone faced this problem and
> found a solution or workaround. Please help.

That's a bug in the glibc pre-release version that was shipped with
Redhat 7. You need to update glibc, as Redhat also advises you to do.

Regards,
Martin



From fleet at teachout.org  Tue Aug  7 14:26:06 2001
From: fleet at teachout.org (fleet at teachout.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:26:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Newbie Question!
In-Reply-To: <031301c11f5f$148ca3c0$0300000a@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071422040.8812-100000@fleet1>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:


> > [/home/dev/cbamc]$ python cgiserver.py
> > localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] code 403, message
> Directory listing not
> > supported
> > localhost.localdomain - - [07/Aug/2001 11:32:26] "GET / HTTP/1.0"
> 403 -
> > Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "cgiserver.py", line 5, in ?
> >     httpd.serve_forever()
> >   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 195, in
> serve_forever
> >     self.handle_request()
> >   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 210, in
> handle_request
> >     request, client_address = self.get_request()
> >   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/SocketServer.py", line 223, in get_request
> >     return self.socket.accept()
> > KeyboardInterrupt <---- me getting out
> >
> > The directory contains only 'index.html' (rather lengthy) and
> 'cgiserver.py.'
> >
>
> Seems like it might be a versioning problem, if indeed there really is
> anything wrong at all. From the traceback, it looks like your server was
> sitting there waiting to accept a request. I'm guessing you didn't use
> the right URL in your browser! In which case see below for the right
> one...

What I see in the browser when I go to :8000 is:

Error response Error code 403.
Message: Directory listing not supported.
Error code explanation: 403 = Request forbidden -- authorization will not help.

> It works fine for me under Python 2.0 on Windows 98, for example:

I'm using RH 7.0 (forgot to mention that).

> it's rather a long time since I used it. If you don't like putting a
> port number in your URLs, just change "8000" to "80" in the server code.

Changing to port 80, I get a "Test Page" that says Apache is installed
correctly and (as administrator) I may now add content to this page.

				- fleet -




From thomas at xs4all.net  Sat Aug 11 15:20:17 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:20:17 +0200
Subject: Setting file creation date
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEADLFAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108101828560.3677-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEADLFAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010811212017.H874@xs4all.nl>

On Fri, Aug 10, 2001 at 04:18:13PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:

> Creation time is exactly what it sounds like <wink>.  When you *copy* a file
> using native Windows functions, the creation time on the copy is set to the
> current time, but the modified time is inherited as-is from the original.
> This drives Unix weenies insane, [..]

> Of course almost none of this is documented clearly anywhere (that I know
> of, anyway).

Actually, that's the only thing that would drive me, as a Unix weenie,
insane. I'm quite used to odd and nonsensical behaviour -- after all, I use
Unix, right ? But at least that's *documented* to be weird, somewhere, in
the source... 

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Mon Aug  6 20:27:55 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:27:55 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9kmffa017qc@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <mvcumtsrore7j29ksjt79f9v0ai1qgdjbr@4ax.com>

>Applications whose "performance bottleneck" is _100%_ of their code?!
>Never heard of any such thing.  10% to 20% seems to be common.  What
>counter-examples do you have in mind?

You can get into trouble "externalizing" Python code if you run into a
situation of involving a segment of code which is invoked _frequently_.
In a spot like that, the high-cost of Python method dispatch can be
the limiting factor in your ability to effectively externalize and speed
up your problem.

Note, however, that if you're noticing these kinds of things very often,
you should firmly pat yourself on the back. Since the Python dispatch
overhead is amortized constant, if it becomes the constraining performance
factor in your application, you have optimized out all other complexity
issues of note.

In a situation like this one, it makes sense to have a C or C++ program
which uses Python internally as a scripting engine with some kind of
C-level dispatch which governs whether or not you go to Python. This
gives you the ability to back ALL THE WAY out of Python and escape
the interpreter dispatch cost.

and-its-no-coincidence-that-a-number-of-large-scale-gaming-systems-
do-exactly-this ly yrs wink-wink-wink-dont-punch-me-im-so-cute (1)

C//

(1) isn't Tim fun to pick on? :)



From blong at fiction.net  Tue Aug 28 17:46:49 2001
From: blong at fiction.net (Brandon Long)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:46:49 -0700
Subject: PyApache and MySQLdb (was Re: anyone get one of the python apache modules to work with 2.1?)
In-Reply-To: <m366b818z6.fsf@paci.nautilus>
Message-ID: <20010828144649.A24682@pulp>

[Lele at seldati.it]
>   BL> I've tried PyApache 4.25, mod_python 2.7.6 and mod_snake 0.5.0
>   BL> (and the latest mod_snake from CVS yesterday), and none of
>   BL> them seem to work.  
>   BL> PyApache will work in SingleIntepreter mode, but without that
>   BL> on, it only works the first time through the CGI per apache
>   BL> child process.  Ever follow on will fail to import some random
>   BL> module.
> 
> I hope I'll be testing PyApache with Python 2.1 during the weekend, or
> the next week. What is exactly the error message?

Ok, it seems somehow related to the MySQLdb module (0.9.0)

On the second request, the import of the site.py module fails (during
import __builtin__) with:
'import site' failed; traceback:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/site.py", line 60, in ?    
     import sys, os
  File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 54, in ?
    __all__.extend(_get_exports_list(posix))
  File "/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 35, in _get_exports_list
    return list(module.__all__)
AttributeError: 'posix' module has no attribute '__all__'


I have the following dirt simple CGI
-----------------------
#!/neo/opt/encap/python-2.1-nothread/bin/python

import sys
sys.stderr.write('%s\n' % (repr(sys.path)))
import time
import MySQLdb

print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
print "This is a test"
print "%s" % repr(sys.path)
-----------------------

The import MySQLdb seems to be the culprit, not importing that and the
import of site works fine.

Brandon
-- 
 "We [the Net] get portrayed in a crappy light...  This time it's a cult.  
  Usually, it's that we're all child pornographers."  
                    -- Internet Defender, _Washington Post_, 3-29-97
                                           http://www.fiction.net/blong/



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 16:00:33 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:00:33 -0500
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
        <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov>
        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a>
Message-ID: <15217.39521.93226.301870@beluga.mojam.com>

I wrote:

   I will create a page in my Python Bits page and add links to any text
   editor/Python pages that people send me.

Jump-started at

    http://musi-cal.mojam.com/~skip/python/editors.html

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug  8 15:53:40 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:53:40 -0400
Subject: I NEED TO DELETE A FILE THE LAST 3 MONTHS (directory)
In-Reply-To: <9a26d732.0108081128.6e0914f1@posting.google.com>; from yoshiel@ig.com.br on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:29:00PM -0700
References: <9a26d732.0108081128.6e0914f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20010808155340.A727@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 12:29:00PM -0700, Yoshie wrote:
> I have a doubt about select a any file and verify if this file have
> more 3 months. If file have more 3 months, i need to delete. Else to
> mantain in Directory.

Well Yoshie, this is again classic shell task.  Play around with
    $ find . -mtime +90 -type f | xargs rm
where you can add '-maxdepth 1' option to limit to current directory.
You can implement this in python, but requires more typing than I would
like in this 38C weather.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From bokr at accessone.com  Sat Aug  4 14:46:33 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:46:33 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <4197FA5DD22AD5118ADE00805F6FA62F3B67FD@eden.vmlabs.com> <mailman.996895147.19528.python-list@python.org> <5k1nmts15l7nsio00bmht2gnp12tbuq3qn@4ax.com> <jonathan-08E8BC.11505504082001@news.easynet.co.uk> <38aomtc8if8v3avgglck50ii72phtd9kaf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b6c3e72.1263271428@wa.news.verio.net>

On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:03:05 GMT, Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote:

>
>>Since I can write more powerful programs in smaller, more readable 
>>chunks, I think I write less buggy code. If we have to reduce the 
>>simplicity/expressiveness of the language in order to add type-checking, 
>>then I think the tradeoff is not worth it.
>
>I emphatically agree. Syntactic type declaration is considerably out of
>place with Python.
>
>Although I was thinking about about something which might be useful.
>What if Python were to support a type consistency check on containers?
>
>>>> mylist = [1,2,"alpha"]!
>Type Consistency Error:
>>>>
>
>Note the exclamation point.
>
assert(type(mylist) in (type(()),type([])) and \
  len([x for x in mylist if type(x)!=type(mylist[0])])==0)

Would you use it often enough to warrant a language change?

OTOH, if '!' were a unary postfix operator that you could define ... ;-)

def __operator__!(mylist):
    return type(mylist) in (type(()),type([])) and \
  len([x for x in mylist if type(x)!=type(mylist[0])])==0)



From yasu at yasuaki.com  Thu Aug 23 19:06:09 2001
From: yasu at yasuaki.com (Yasuaki Kudo)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:06:09 GMT
Subject: I dont get this!
References: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>
Message-ID: <B%fh7.861$kn.89972@news1.rdc1.ky.home.ne.jp>

Looks like you've had a bad sleep ;-)  below works for me!

value = (103,)
low = (25, )
high = (35, )

def check_hilo(i):
 if value[i] < low[i]:
  return 1
 if value[i] > high[i]:
  return 2

 return 0

print check_hilo(0)




From new_name at mit.edu  Wed Aug  1 19:59:17 2001
From: new_name at mit.edu (Alex)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 19:59:17 -0400
Subject: urllib help
References: <3B68843C.997C4930@wi.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <etdsnfbxrfu.fsf@opus.mit.edu>

Try this:

import urllib

def question():
    url = "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi"
    data = {
        'orig_db': 'PubMed',
        'db': 'PubMed',
        'term': 'wortmannin',
        'cmd': '',
        }
    urldata = urllib.urlencode(data)
    results = urllib.urlopen(url, urldata).read()
    open('/tmp/tst.html', 'w').write(results)

if __name__ == '__main__': question()

HTH.

-- 
Alex Coventry (finger alex_coventry at mit.edu)


From brown.2053  Thu Aug 23 02:17:31 2001
From: brown.2053 (Locke)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:17:31 GMT
Subject: arrays of tkinter buttons
Message-ID: <1103_998547451@mofo>

Is there a way to make an array of tkinter buttons? In visual basic you can do this cool there where you can have an array of buttons, and you can have them all call the same function, but have one of its arguments be 
the index of the button clicked in the array.

Does python even have normal arrays, or do you have to use lists?

How could i create an array of several buttons? Would I need to use a loop?

Thanks a lot for any help people!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 05:09:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:09:13 +0200
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <9lp2fp0u6e@enews3.newsguy.com> <slrn9o0fte.3vvilp7.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lqk572i6@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Bernd Nawothnig" <Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:slrn9o0fte.3vvilp7.Bernd.Nawothnig at Asterix.t-online.de...
    ...
> > It seems you've never found yourself in a situation where you *have* to
> > use a given framework (e.g., MFC) because of corporate policy. [...]
    ...
> I don't want to start a religious war but i deeply believe that such
policy
> you have described above will lead into agony on long terms. It means the

I think this is a serious overbid.  When a firm has accumulated a capital
of software projects that interoperate by being all based on the same
framework, it is quite a reasonable policy to say that other projects in
the suite must also use the same framework to ensure continued
interoperation.  Software must be maintained, and it would be very
costly to ask each new software maintainer to be or become familiar
with several different frameworks that do roughly the same job.

> death of every dynamic developement process which needs some freedom of
> choice and the freedom of information. If you have this guaranteed it
would
> be easy for you to accept 'open' restrictions. Open because you can look
> into the source code and hopefully understand the reasons for the
> restrictions - or change it. Nothing is created for eternity :-)

Changing the framework you use, whether you call it "forking" or
otherwise, is one of the costliest errors you can make in production
software development.  The sources of MFC are available to any
purchaser of Microsoft VC++, which comes bundled with them --
when you find and fix outright bugs you're welcome to submit
the patches to the maintainer.  Whether they'll be accepted is of
course another issue, just as it would be for a free or open-source
project.  An *architectural limitation*, a DESIGN bug if you will,
is not normally treated in the same way -- again you can suggest
a deep redesign and refactoring, but your chances to get it
accepted by the framework maintainers are slimmer.

When your changes are rejected, you're at a crossroads.  Either
you fork the project (my advice: *DON'T*!), or you find other
solutions.  Some languages are too rigid to admit of other
solutions -- others give you a chance to survive even in these
dire straits.  I prefer the latter.

> The general goals in designing a new programming language should not
mainly
> be oriented to work in such unfree environments.

Free or unfree has little to do with the case.  Even if you do have
sources, and therefore implicitly the ability to fork, it's WAY
better not to.

> This is my point of view but - as i said above - we should avoid a
religious
> flame war about open source. I'm new to this NG (and new to Python too)
and
> mainly interested in Python related things :-)

Me too, and one of the many Python related things that interest
me is that it is one of the languages that provide a way to solve
such problems without forking, by having the 'restrictions' of
information-hiding &c be 'advisory' (except of course for the
special case of restricted-execution, where introspection &c are
curtailed to keep untrusted code in its place).


> > If you've always had free rein in choosing the frameworks you are to
work
> > with, you're in a very unusual situation in this industry.
>
> Nobody is totally free and it is not necessary to have the freedom to
choose
> the framework by yourself but to have the possibility to change things you
> can't live with. And there must be a good feeling in general.

A language that limits your "possibility to change things" to forking
the framework is simply less practical than one which, besides of
course allowing that, ALSO lets you dynamically work around problems
on an as-needed, when-needed, if-needed, on-the-fly basis.

I'm not saying it's *pleasant* to, e.g., go and optionally switch a
factory function used deep in the bowels of a framework -- but it
IS one more option you have to save your skin in emergencies.
Making the language more complicated, by enforcing visibility
and accessibility restrictions, to TAKE AWAY that option for the
sake of abstract principles would be an absurd policy.


> > -- once you have coded tens of thousands of lines to that framework,
which
> > instantiates that particular concrete class in such-and-such situation,
> > what do you do when you THEN find out that in release N+1 of your
program
> > you absoutely need _another_ class for those generated objects?
>
> Crying: "Shit!" - what else? *gg*
>
> But seriously: First I will have to accept that something went wrong with
my
> ideas. And then i would try to redesign the whole thing avoiding as much
> ugly quickhacks as possible.

Very nice, and very theoretical.  On one side, you have a "ugly quickhack":

    toolbarClass = theFramework.FrameWindow.Toolbar
    class MyToolbar(toolbarClass):
        def minimize(self): pass        # workaround toolbar-minimization
bug
    theFramework.FrameWindow.Toolbar = MyToolbar

    # add a few more lines to make this conditional, potentially
    # restore the original toolbarClass at need, etc, etc.

taking about 2 minutes to design, implement and test for somebody who's
deeply familiar with the framework.  On the other side, you have before
yourself an open-ended rearchitecturing effort: we can't use any more ANY
of the code pathways in the framework that end up instantiating the
hard-coded concrete class theFramework.FrameWindow.Toolbar, and must
duplicate them ALL in order to ensure they instantiate our MyToolbar
instead.  If the framework is in a language which allows the designer
to specify (maybe even as the DEFAULT...) that minimize is not virtual,
the amount of work increases yet more.

All that 'goes wrong', say, is that the framework's designers rigidly
imposed the instantiation of toolbars which inevitably minimize when
their owning frame-window minimizes -- and you need (the UI experts
specify that, and it's non-negotiable) toolbars that don't behave this
way, period.  ONE tiny detail out of many thousands you (and the
framework) are dealing with.  How much price in terms of language
complexity are you willing to pay in order to ensure your situation
is insoluble except by redesigning everything from scratch, so that
you're *forced* to "Do the Right Thing"?


> > You basically have the above choices plus (in theory) that of throwing
> > everything you have away and recoding it all from scratch
>
> 'mercilessly refactoring' was the keyword ...

I have no problem with that, but it doesn't apply to components,
libraries, or whole frameworks you're re-using.  If you touch even
one source-line of that code, you're not re-using any more, you're
forking -- a completely different game.

You can and should refactor the code that your organization
develops and maintains.  If a language doesn't enforce (but
just sets as advisory) the limits of information-hiding &c, then
you can, reasonably easily, make the code you develop and
maintain affect some small but crucial aspect of the working
of the framework/library/component, WITHOUT forcing that
reused code.  If you choose to use a language that does the
enforcement, you don't have that option any more.

> But it is a big difference
> stucking deep into the problem and writing all from scratch knowing
> basically nothing. At the point you described _many_ code fragments are
> written in your head before you start. Not so if you are unexperienced. We
> had this discussion a few days ago. One told me he had lost a floppy disc
> with all his source code a few years ago (no back up - of course :-). He
> needed months to write the code first but only days to do the work again.
> And the second version was better than the lost one.

Yes, a similar thing happened to me back when I was writing my
thesis, over 20 years ago -- a crash in the experimental computer
system being installed at our university took with it all of our
sources (well, we did have print-outs, as we mostly worked on
teletype-like terminals -- but no backups as the tape units were
not installed yet), so we had to rewrite it (again: we had already
developed half the programs in APL, then had to recode them in
Fortran and assembler as the new experimental computer, a VAX,
didn't have an APL implementation).

Yes, the resulting code does get developed faster and with
better quality than the first time around, at least if the first
time is still reasonably fresh in your mind.  It still meant we
graduated in the summer session rather than in the previous
spring session, though -- meaning one more year of tuition
fees the way things worked here at the time, by the way
(we did recoup those, and then some, as the thesis won a
generous cash grant for its quality, admittedly:-).


> Hmm, one should delete all of his source code some times :-)

Maybe if you're 20 to 25.  When over 40, you start to see
there are more things you'd like to code, than time left in
your probable remaining life to code them, so the prospect
of redoing stuff you have already done is less appealing.

And if a limitation is in the framework you're using, and that
you have to keep using, and your chosen language _enforces_
information-hiding measures, your rewrite to workaround that
limitation is going to be an unsatisfactory duplication of much
of your framework -- not much better than a fork, in some
respects.  Why anybody would complicate a language to
ensure such unpleasantness is really a mystery to me.


Alex





From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug  6 09:27:24 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:27:24 GMT
Subject: PEP? context overloading: if wants(type): ...
References: <9klgl0$1frt$1@news.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <0Xwb7.76367$EP6.18095577@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Jim Dennis" <jimd at vega.starshine.org> wrote in message
news:9klgl0$1frt$1 at news.idiom.com...

>  I'd propose, if I felt qualified to do so, to offer a "wants()"
>  or builtin that would allow a method to determine the desired
>  return type or "context" of an invocation.
>
>  So the use could look like:
>
> import types
>   if wants(IntType):
> return n
> elif wants(TupleType):
> return (n1,n2)
> elif wants(StringType):
> return `n`
> elif wants(VoidType): # NoneType?
> return
>
>  What am I missing about this?  What would it hurt?

a = fun(xxx) # what does a 'want'?

Without declaring types for *names* (as opposed to objects) question
is meaningless.
On the other hand, Python type objects can be passed as function
arguments to specify a return type, so no special mechanism is needed.

def f(x, typ):
  if     typ == LongType: return glong(x)
  elif  typ == FloatType: return gfloat(x)
  else return None

Terry J. Reedy





From sa at bayt.net  Wed Aug 29 09:26:28 2001
From: sa at bayt.net (Shakeeb Alireza)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 06:26:28 -0700
Subject: Timetable to a Python PAUSE?
Message-ID: <280f26fb.0108290526.2d7e0ec2@posting.google.com>

Dear Pythonistas,

I really wish the community would pay more attention to the critical
problem of not having a Pythonic equivalent of Perl's PAUSE/CPAN.

"PAUSE is the Perl Authors Upload SErver, a registry for Perl module,
script and documentation authors to upload their work to the
CPAN...After an author uploads their module to PAUSE, it will be
mirrored to CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archive Network) once an hour and
from there, to the rest of the mirrors around the world. Various
scripts run on CPAN daily to make sure that mirrors are up and running
and that the mirror to PAUSE is functional, etc. There are people who
advise authors on their choice of name and namespace for their modules
and a few others who answer questions and investigate issues sent to
cpan at perl.org." - from the respective FAQs

Enough criticism. The question I would pose to myself is: How do I
contribute?

Given my newbieness, I don't think I would be in a position to help
out on the coding side, but I would and could certainly help out in
other areas such as: graphic/site design, hosting fees, doc drafts,
etc..

Hence, I would like to offer my somewhat limited skills to whoever
leads this project forward to realization.

FYI the following PEPs concern are related to this issue:

PEP243:  Module Repository Upload Mechanism
         http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0243.html

PEP262:  A Database of Installed Python Packages
         http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0262.html

PEP250:  Using site-packages on Windows
         http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0250.html

PEP241:  Metadata for Python Software Packages
         http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0241.html

PEP206:  Batteries Included
         http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0206.html


Sincerely,


Shakeeb


From sill at optonline.net  Thu Aug  9 11:01:45 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:01:45 GMT
Subject: Searchable python documentation
References: <9ktu83$9bn$1@s1.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9n5978.2tk.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:04:21 +0000, Tom Huckstep <tomhuckstep at bigfoot.spammenot.com> wrote:
> Is there any searchable python documentation, that performs
> a bit like man, so I could do
> 
> $ pyman compile
> 
> and it would show me the documentation for the builtin
> function compile?
> 
> If not I am thinking of writing a couple of programs to
> perform that task:  one to make an index of the HTML
> module documentation, and another to search through it and
> invoke a web browser when it finds what you want.
> 
> I don't want to duplicate anyone's work though.  Does this
> kind of thing exist already?  If it doesn't, does anyone
> have any thoughts or comments on my idea?
> 
> Tom
> 

I would certainly find something like that useful..


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From mark21rowe at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 03:08:57 2001
From: mark21rowe at yahoo.com (Mark Rowe)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:08:57 +1200
Subject: Freeze Error
Message-ID: <3b7a2b21@news.actrix.gen.nz>

Hello,

A friend of mine recently came upon a problem, while attempting to freeze a
program, that I have never accounted.

Under Windows:
After setting the PYTHONEX environment variable to the correct path, freeze
is run on a simple one-file program.  The result is this:
Error: needed directory C:\PYTHON21\lib\python2.1\config not found
Use ''C:\python_src\tools\freeze\freeze.py -h'' for help

I searched the newsgroup archives and the only mention of this problem
suggested adding the -w flag to specify the Windows platform, but this
doesn't seem to help. Any suggestions?

Mark




From brian_zhouNOSPAM at techie.com  Thu Aug 23 16:17:56 2001
From: brian_zhouNOSPAM at techie.com (Brian Zhou)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:17:56 -0700
Subject: Python Books
References: <BI1h7.17461$V7.498949@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <4s92m9.n9p.ln@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <998597938.261685@cswreg.cos.agilent.com>

Just to add I found reading

    Design Patterns
    The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion

together very helpful, because Python is closer to Smalltalk than C++.

-Brian

"kosh" <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote in message
news:4s92m9.n9p.ln at 192.168.0.1...
> Relfx wrote:
>
> > I was wandering if anyone here read the few books that are out there for
> > python. Lately the only set of books i have seen that give alot of info
> > are the O'Reilly editions such Learning and Programming with python.
> >
> >     Are these books the best to have considering I'm still moving up the
> > ladder of programming? Also are there going to more publications to
> > support python programming?
>
> Another book to consider getting is the python essential reference. I find
> it to be a great book when programming since it has the information in a
> rather concise format. Learning books are designed for learning and don't
> tend to make very good reference manuals.
>
> Two other books that are not python books that I consider indispensible
are
> Refactoring and Design Patterns. These books cover some core issues of OO
> work and refactoring techniques work very nicely with python. If applied
> properly they can help you save a lot of time by helping you improve the
> design of your program as you go. I know it seems strange but if you
> constantly do the work to keep your design clean you can add new features
> faster then if you keep trying to hack features in.




From teyc at bigfoot.com  Fri Aug  3 00:12:59 2001
From: teyc at bigfoot.com (Chui Tey)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:12:59 +1000
Subject: Arg decoding with a template?
References: <ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9kd88c$qb6$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>

How about exploiting the python parser ?

>>> args="arg1, arg2, arg3='world'"
>>> s='def f(%s): pass' % args
>>> exec(s)
>>> dir(f.func_code)
['co_argcount', 'co_code', 'co_consts', 'co_filename', 'co_firstlineno',
'co_fla
gs', 'co_lnotab', 'co_name', 'co_names', 'co_nlocals', 'co_stacksize',
'co_varna
mes']
>>> print f.func_code.co_argcount
3
>>> print f.func_code.co_varnames
('arg1', 'arg2', 'arg3')
>>> print f.func_defaults
('world',)

Chui

Dale Strickland-Clark <dale at riverhall.NOSPAMco.uk> wrote in message
news:ljidmtouqj6som2t9ecagbkj95c53kjaeh at 4ax.com...
> Is there a class that simplifies high-level argument decoding under the
control of a template?
>
> Such a class would take a string as a template and the arg list and return
another list populated
> with keys, values and switches taken from the args.
>
> I've spent the last hour going through the global module list. If it's
there, its got a daft name!
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Riverhall Systems Ltd




From Albert.Langer at Directory-Designs.Org  Wed Aug  1 15:51:24 2001
From: Albert.Langer at Directory-Designs.Org (Albert Langer)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 12:51:24 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <6edd2418.0107301344.439affc8@posting.google.com> <cpg0bdzjj4.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <j4wv4pb9jt.fsf@artagnan.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <cp1ymxyow5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <d5e55984.0108011151.645e3bab@posting.google.com>

Enabling "python only" developers to do "meta-class stuff" easily is
likely to have great consequences. The "exploding heads syndrome" was
equally true for "object oriented stuff" like "classes" and
"inheritance" before they became "normal". I never download alpha
python versions because I'm not a C developer and can't help fix it.
But I couldn't resist checking out 2.2a1 after reading the clear
description and am really looking forward to playing with it in 2.2.
My guess is that lots of others who can't contribute using "arcane"
techniques (including C modules ;-) will now be able to add very
interesting stuff that will actually get re-used rather than
re-written (and that may look "arcane" to C developers).

So let's assume people start generating lots of new types. Pretty soon
they are going to want to classify them. Of the conventions suggested
so far to hint at what meta level one is working, "kind" seems the
most natural. But that would mean self is at model level M0
(instances), kind is at model level M1 and there is no convention for
M3 and M4 in the standard meta-modelling framework:

http://www.dstc.edu.au/Research/Projects/MOF/rtf1.4/

Python 2.2 seems to be a natural fit for what looks likely to become a
dominant approach of "Model Driven Architecture". It should be
feasible to directly generate python programs from profiles of higher
level models and then interactively execute them in a visual UML style
modelling environment, but "animated" as is done routinely for
"debugging".

Check out the Meta Object Framework standards being developed at above
link and the UML (Rose) models for them, and the increasing use of MOF
models and UML "profiles" in other OMG standards. Most java code is
going to be directly generated from modelling tools, thus eliminating
most of its syntax hassles compared with Python. Python can actually
do that much better than java and should have a
reflection/introspection API that can easily be aligned directly with
the MOF standards.

Two missing features I noticed are:

1) A method that gets automatically called exactly once immediately
after a type is created similar to the ExtensionClass _class_init__.

2) Methods allowing parameterized classes to specify an immutable
"key" based on their immutable static attribute values that is
recognized by dictionaries such as _class_hash__ and _class_cmp_.

I suspect such items point to a need for something more than a simple
naming convention.

One that was suggested was:

def method(class self, param1,...):

That extends naturally to:

def method(class class self, param1,...):

The parser would presumably have to count the number of occurrences of
class instead of barfing at the first one as a keyword error and then
somehow bind the method at that level. At the same time it could do
name mangling similar to __class_attribute to avoid name clashes.


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 23:19:47 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 20:19:47 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998159307.24342.python-list@python.org> <9lmu6c01kg8@enews1.newsguy.com> <7xsneoijz7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nvq2n.3vvtj2j.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de> <7xae0v6ehm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9o084u.3vvilp7.Bernd.Nawothnig@Asterix.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7xofpbbep8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bernd.Nawothnig at t-online.de (Bernd Nawothnig) writes:
> > That ignores a whole class of applications which run potentially malicious
> > code, such as mobile code.  If Visual Basic had good access restriction
> > features, we might not see nearly so many computer viruses spreading
> > through MS Outlook and Word documents 
> 
> Everthing of worth has to be sacrificed to prevent M$ from taking world
> dominion and it's catastrophic impact? The real problem is a program like
> OjE which allows such viruses to work. Otherwise nobody would even see this
> 'problem'.

I can't make any sense of what you're saying here.  But a little
reality: millions of web pages out there have Javascript on them that
isn't easily able to take over the client machine.  Python is
advertised as an embeddable script language and Guido's language
comparison essay explicitly compares it favorably to javascript.  If
javascript is useable in important situations where Python can't be
used, Python isn't meeting its advertised goals.


From nas at python.ca  Fri Aug 24 19:09:33 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:09:33 -0700
Subject: Tim & Guido in the top 10
In-Reply-To: <9m6j3k01tc9@drn.newsguy.com>; from not.this@seebelow.org on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:05:40PM -0700
References: <mailman.998683959.327.python-list@python.org> <9m6j3k01tc9@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010824160933.A14112@glacier.fnational.com>

Grant Griffin wrote:
> i'm-ranked-ahead-of-all-at-'zero'-<wink>-ly y'rs,

That must throw Zope.com's salary calculator for a loop. :-)

  Neil



From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Wed Aug 22 12:33:14 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:33:14 -0500
Subject: Python users
References: <mailman.998435406.14498.python-list@python.org> <TmFg7.159484$g_3.25287935@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <slrn9o6jlb.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <to7np78ndbeb6b@corp.supernews.com>

WOW!  Sorry!  I meant www.python.org
The interesting thing is that when I posted this I was discussing running
Python Scripts in a POVRAY modeller hehehehe
Maan

"Andrei Kulakov" <sill at optonline.net> wrote in message
news:slrn9o6jlb.9vi.sill at sill.silmarill.org...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:08:35 GMT, Maan Hamze <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote:
> > Kim
> > Check out www.povray.org
>
> I think you meant www.python.org :P.
>
> > If you are using Windows, you may want to install the windows
distribution
> > also that comes with a nice windows IDE.  You can find this at:
> > www.activestate.com
> >
> > Also, check Amazon.com
> > and search for Python under Books.
> > Learning Python and Python Internet Programming are good introductory
books.
> > A more advanced one is Programming Python by Mark Lutz
> > Good luck with your endeavours, and I am sure with a bit of work and
> > patience, Python is a language you'll LOVE :)
> > Maan
> >
> > "Kim C Tran" <KCT at EMIA.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.998435406.14498.python-list at python.org...
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm really new to python language, where is the best place to learn ??
> >>  and where can I find the latest of Pythonwin for python2.1 ??
> >>
> >> Any help really appreciated,
> >> Kim,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
> get it at: cy.silmarill.org




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 14:46:38 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:46:38 -0400
Subject: server question
References: <oG1d7.8274$vp.1265600@news02.optonline.net> <3B74B1B2.47807E5C@engcorp.com> <Qved7.14857$vp.2244576@news02.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3B757D8E.E1B35ECE@engcorp.com>

vin wrote:
[...]
> Now I know that conn.recv() should return a string, but it seems that I
> can't evaluate that string with eval.  You can print 'data' but not do
> eval(data) it always reports syntax error.  Why?

Try printing repr(data) instead of just data and notice what
your data actually contains.  Hint: telnet is probably
adding something that eval() can't handle.  Look into 
using string.strip() on the data, if you really want to do 
this the "hard way" (i.e. building it yourself).
In general, if you are concerned about the *content*
of the data, don't use just 'print' when debugging -- 
use 'print repr()' instead to see all the bytes.

As I mentioned before, however, you have no guarantees 
that recv() returns a single string with all the input.
You need to recv() from the socket repeatedly in a loop,
checking for a termination sequence like '\n', and collect
the input into a buffer for later processing.

Also, even once you get this all working, you have a few
other problems ahead.  eval() actually tries to evaluate
the expression, as in it doesn't necessarily return a 
string.  send() requires a string, so at the very least 
you had better wrap a str() around the result of eval().
And you better put the eval() call in a try/except block 
so that your whole application doesn't shut down when the
user enters something like "1/0".

Although you'll learn a lot working through this 
exercise, I just wanted to let you know that many others
have been here before and already solved the problems 
you are going to face.  If you're doing this to learn,
great!  More power to you. :-)   If you actually want
a working solution and don't much care to learn how to
do all this, look around for existing solutions that
do what you're trying to do with far more robustness.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Fri Aug 10 11:40:37 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:40:37 GMT
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org> <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <VfTc7.249449$EF2.30622142@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Just van Rossum <just at letterror.com> menulis:
| 
| What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
| 
|   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/

That huge jump in traffic in 2000 is what caused me to learn how to use
filters in my newsreader. :)


-- 
Cliff Crawford                           http://www.sowrong.org/
"Today's Goths, who generally tend to be in their teens and 20s,
have nothing to do with the Germanic Visigoths of Europe in the
third and fourth centuries A.D."               -- Jimmy Stewart


From ignacio at openservices.net  Fri Aug 31 00:01:54 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:01:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Writeing new files
In-Reply-To: <9mmvv5$31879$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302355000.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Emile van Sebille wrote:

> Again, you're problem is with Create.  Try this code:
>
> class Create:
>     def __init__(self,val):
>         self.val = val
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return repr(self.val)
>
> name= Create('Name')
>
> print '%s' % name
>
> class Create:
>     def __init__(self,val):
>         self.val = val
>     def __str__(self):
>        return str(self.val)
>
> name= Create('Name')
>
> print '%s' % name
>
> If Create is coming out of Blender, look in dir(name) to see if the name is
> already an attribute.  I don't have Blender so I can't check it for you.  If
> there's a Blender mailing list, try it as well.
>
> HTH,
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com

Create() is coming out of Blender.Draw.

I've downloaded Blender and am trying to look at the problem, but it doesn't
seem to work on my system very well.

Eber, grab the following file:

  http://www.blender.nl/resource/python/blends/console.zip

Open the file, erase the contents of the top window, and put this in its
place:

---
import Blender
from Blender.Draw import *

print 'test'
name=Create('Name')
print 'Name'
print Name
---

Then play it and report back.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>








From tim.one at home.com  Tue Aug 14 02:45:57 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 02:45:57 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <008EABFF.N22121@rsmi.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEJDLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Arthur_Siegel at rsmi.com]
> Nor do most of the community focus particularly or care
> more than superficially about the CP4E initiative.  Happens
> I follow it closely and my involvement with Python is focused
> there.
>
> So I am reporting from the front.
>
> And yes I quite resent and find destructive the prominence of
> the role and access given to Carnegie Mellon.
>
> How do I say this without sounding harebrained.
> ...

I'm afraid it's too late <0.5 wink>.  In response to a msg where I urged you
repeatedly to read the darn PEP, and spelled out what a small role Alice and
VPython have played in all this (perhaps seminal, perhaps not, but a drop in
the bucket regardless), it's still the only thing you talk about.

That's fine, but you should argue with the VPython developers now.  Your
argument surely isn't with Python's PEP 238, because you've had nothing to
say about the PEP!  One last time:  VPython is irrelevant to PEP 238 at this
stage.  If you want to talk about the PEP, cool, but I don't have time to
care about VPython.





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 12:53:01 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:53:01 -0400
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk>	<oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> <3B7147BB.2000201@herts.ac.uk> <oqlmkuo9zm.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> <mailman.997284688.4493.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%5ec7.6161$qm1.64683@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.997284688.4493.python-list at python.org...
> Sorry to be a pain in the rear, but I have tried this with dicts
> containing nultiply nested lists and it is still printing it all on one
> line.
>
> Strange.......and annoying cos it sounds like something I would  use alot
>
RTFM. pprint has a PrettyPrinter object with four options when you create
it. Also see my last posting in this thread (maybe your news hosts didn't
get it yet).

regards
 STeve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From msoulier at storm.ca  Fri Aug 31 17:51:06 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:51:06 GMT
Subject: blocking forever with urllib
References: <Ttzj7.58472$n75.14648351@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <2310522a.0108302056.4f6dbf36@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eFTj7.65165$n75.16348171@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

On 30 Aug 2001 21:56:35 -0700, Naris Siamwalla <naris at ensim.com> wrote:
> i ran into this problem when some web servers will accept
> the connection but just wait and do nothing.  to fix this we
> added a select in httplib's (py 1.5.x) getreply:
>         import select
>         (r,w,e) = select.select([self.sock],[],[],30.0)
>         if r:
>             line = self.file.readline()
>         else:
>             raise socket.error, "select timeout"
> don't know how correct this is, but it worked for us.

    Great, thanks. 

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <michael.soulier at home.com>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"Pretty soon, massive bloat is the industry standard and everyone is using
huge, buggy programs not even their developers can love."
    -Eric S. Raymond, The Art of Unix Programming


From kp87 at lycos.com  Thu Aug  2 15:10:20 2001
From: kp87 at lycos.com (kevin parks)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 12:10:20 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.996714310.2991.python-list@python.org> <3b68b5ce.1031682601@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <5e8bd451.0108021110.3325bc8d@posting.google.com>

What is all this babble about democracy, dictators and what / should
return? Now, i finally bring up a really important decision to be made
on a very serious issue and nothing... all while you fight over pep
this pep that. I DEMAND action now! I want all our snakes changed
immediately to bunny rabbits! Who voted for the snake!? Why didn't we
get a vote!? Was it that damned Tim Peters again! God! I know Guido
said, "Hey dude, what about snakes?!" and Time said, "yeah, like
whatever man...." (they were in california at the time i think)

And now here we are 10 years on with all these slithering snakes
instead of cute bunnies or penguins like linux (oh to have those
cuties!).


Hmmmph!

love, peace, and cream cheese.

ps. oh yeah <wink>

determined-to-be-the-only-python-user-that-doesn't-imitate-tim's-signoff-ly

kevin parks
seoul, korea


From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 10 18:08:15 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 15:08:15 -0700
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <25b2e0d9.0107291052.7780d1f8@posting.google.com> <3B7307EB.297F2EF3@sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <9l1m0f018da@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3B7307EB.297F2EF3 at sage.att.com>, Garry says...
>
>gods1child wrote:
>> 
>> All this heated discussion over floats has led me to wonder if we need
>> to lighten up a little bit and celebrate the fact that were close to
>> 100,000 (94,100 as of this moment) messages on this news-group
>
>94,100?  is that cumulative, or just today?
>it sometimes seems like the latter.

Which reminds me: let's all take a moment to recognize /F, Tim, and especially
Alex.

yet-another-excuse-to-contribute-to-today's-total-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From moonlite56 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 16 21:05:41 2001
From: moonlite56 at yahoo.com (moonlite56 at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:05:41 -0000
Subject: Predefining Functions help!!!
Message-ID: <9lhql5+pf76@eGroups.com>

How do you predefine a function? I want to change an image in a 
canvas and update it, but it (of course) comes up the error that the 
canvas is "referenced before assignment." :) I know there's a way to 
predefine the function at the beginning of my program but actually 
define it later on, but I don't know how. Can someone else help?

Here's my program thus far:

---------------

from Tkinter import *
import Image,ImageTk

def changeimage():
        cKuti3.delete(myimage)
	iKuti3 = 
ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/pinkvest.gif"))
	cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

top = Tk()
top.title("Kuti")
top.geometry("200x100")

iKuti1 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("body/lighttan.gif"))
iKuti2 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("hair/brownbuns.gif"))
iKuti3 = ImageTk.PhotoImage(Image.open("outfit/whiteblouse.gif"))

cpic = Canvas(width = 40, height = 40)
cpic.grid(column = 0, row = 0, columnspan = 2)

cKuti1 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti1)
cKuti2 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti2)
cKuti3 = cpic.create_image(0, 0, anchor = NW, image = iKuti3)

changeimage()

top.mainloop()





From tjreedy at home.com  Sat Aug 18 13:18:56 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:18:56 GMT
Subject: Additional functionality for PyUnit
References: <efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4sxf7.115420$EP6.30571991@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"MikeK" <mkent at atlantic.net> wrote in message
news:efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1 at posting.google.com...
> Here's a proposed change to unittest.py that I'd like your comments
> on.
See David Goodger's response to Paul Moore in thread Art of Unit
Testing




From t.scrace at btinternet.com  Mon Aug 13 20:23:19 2001
From: t.scrace at btinternet.com (root)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:23:19 +0000
Subject: 'python' Bash command doesn't link to 2.1.1
Message-ID: <3B786F77.1F6B54EE@btinternet.com>

Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
I've run into a problem during installation.  My Linux (Linux PPC 2000)
came packaged with Python 1.5.2 but I thought I'd upgrade to the latest
version before I got started.  I unpacked the download and followed all
the instructions in the README (./configure then make) and everything
seemed to go fine.

I cannot, however, run Python 2.1.1 using the 'python' terminal command
and there is no Python man page installed.  Typing 'python' at the
command prompt brings up the 1.5.2 interpreter.  I can run the 2.1.1
interpreter by typing the path of the toplevel Python directory and then
/python (e.g. /home/root/Python-2.1.1/python) but I don't want to have
to do this every time I start the interpreter and I would also like to
have the man page installed.

Could this be an problem with my Linux distribution, perhaps something
to do with the directory structure?  I only started with Linux a few
days ago so I'm probably way off - I'm making the transition from Mac OS
to Linux.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom


From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 13:17:23 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:17:23 GMT
Subject: strange behavior of the comparison operator
References: <mailman.999103053.7875.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9oq8t1.96i.grante@isis.visi.com>

In article <mailman.999103053.7875.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Nicolas Evrard wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone, this is my first post to the list and let me say that I
>> find python really exciting ... Looks a bit like scheme but is fast and
>> have a large community of users ...
>>
>> Here 's what I've done :
>>
>> To try the __comp__ method I've done a class for complex number (the usual
>> example). But here are the result I've got :
>>
>> >>> Complex(7,2).__comp__(Complex(3,4))
>> 1
>> >>> Complex(7,2) < Complex(3,4)
>> 1

How about adding some print statements to __comp__ to print out the values
of self.r, other.r, self.i, other.i?

>> the definition of __comp__ I've done :
>>
>>     def __comp__(self, other) :
>>         if self.r < other.r :
>>             return -1
>>         elif self.r == other.r :
>>             if self.i < other.i :
>>                 return -1
>>             elif self.i == other.i : return 0
>>         else : return 1
>>
>> But in the reference manual it says that __comp__ should return a positive
>> integer if self > other ... and obviously it isn't the case.
>
>Mmm. The question becomes "When do you consider one complex number to be
>greater or less than another?" Answer that question first and you will find
>your solution.

Uh, he has answered that question.  It may not be an answer you like, but
he's answered the question and written a __comp__ method to impliment it.

The only problem I see is that the case where self.r==other.r and self.i >
other.i isn't handled.  That wouldn't cause the problem you've observed, but
I'd do something like:
 
  def __comp__(self, other):
    if self.r < other.r:
       return -1
    elif self.r > other.r:
       return 1
    else:
       if self.i < other.i:
          return -1
       elif self.i > other.i:
          return 1
       else:
          return 0
	  
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The Korean War must
                                  at               have been fun.
                               visi.com            


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 15:02:21 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:02:21 GMT
Subject: Scope troubles with a swap function
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108101554410.611-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <3B741C73.EBDD24F5@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nitdt.56f.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:45:47 GMT, Joseph Andrew Knapka <jknapka at earthlink.net> pisze:

> Just pass arguments. All names in Python have values that are either
> basic types (eg Integer) or references to objects (lists, tuples,
> class instances).

All values are references to objects, including integers.

At least conceptually. An alternative implementation could treat them
specially (in fact the CPython implementation preallocates 101 of
them to not have to always create them dynamically). But it's safe
to assume that they are all heap-allocated objects.

Since integers are immutable, the overall effect is the same as if
they were passed by value.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Sat Aug  4 16:38:39 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:38:39 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: XOR two bytes?
In-Reply-To: <3B6C5985.EA285A07@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108041436510.23263-100000@bms>

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Jeanne wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a function to quickly Xor two bytes
> together?
> I have been searching in the docs, but havent' been able to find it.
> Please cc: my cris_paltenghe at yahoo.com address as I don't hang out in
> this newsgroup often.  Thanks for your help! Cris

Is this what you are after...

>>> 0^0
0
>>> 0^1
1
>>> 1^0
1
>>> 1^1
0




From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 01:15:51 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:15:51 -0700
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998577160.2781.python-list@python.org> <3B85E13D.72427622@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9m4o7m$a6au$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B85E13D.72427622 at engcorp.com...
> Dave Swegen wrote:
<snip>
> > So my question (or rather questions) is this: In practice, how often do
> > such problems crop up?  How does one go about avoiding such problems? Is
> > there any way at all to make explicit where a block ends?
>
> *In practice*, this is rare enough to be acceptable.  Proper
> education of programmers using Python makes its occurrence
> effectively negligible.  It does happen that somebody tries
> to edit some code with an editor which displays tabs as
> four characters (a Very Bad Thing), but this is usually
> caught quite quickly and fixed.

Somewhere early on I missed this point.  I caught it some time later and now
used an editor that interprets a tab as four spaces.  In practice now I get
caught mostly by dropping the colon and doing test with a single equals
sign.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Aug 10 00:40:49 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:40:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: from __future__ import generators
In-Reply-To: <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108100836210.2621-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>"gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> writes:
>
>> I just installed 2.2a1 and immediately come to
>> 'natural question':
>>
>> Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
>> necessary ?
>
>If enough people prefer to always have the 'yield' keyword enabled, we
>can do that.  I thought that there would be a huge opposition against
>breaking code this way, but maybe it's OK.   At least 'yield' is not a
>silent break.

No opposition. I can't even type 'yield' correctly
(yild, yeld, yeild, yelid, eyelid, yawn, etc...)
thanks Guido, I now know what does 'yiled'... oops 'yield' means :)

What about:

from __past__ import nogenerators

instead?

>--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Friday, August 10, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "This mind intentionally left blank." _/




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 22 05:19:31 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:31 +0200
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Sylvain Thenault" <syt at pegasus.logilab.fr> wrote in message
news:slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt at pegasus.logilab.fr...
    ...
> >IMHO, the faster way to do it consists in using builtin map function:
> >
> >map([1.0, 2.0, 3.0], lambda x: 4.0*x)
> >
> oops, this is better:
> map(lambda x: x*4.0, [1.0, 2.0, 3.0])

Why opine when you can measure?

mul.py:
import time

start = time.clock()
for i in range(10000):
    junk = map(lambda x: 4.0*x, [1.0, 2.0, 3.0])
stend = time.clock()
print "%.2f"%(stend-start)

start = time.clock()
for i in range(10000):
    junk = [4.0*x for x in [1.0, 2.0, 3.0]]
stend = time.clock()
print "%.2f"%(stend-start)

[repeated another time to avoid cache effects]

On my trusty old box:

D:\py21>python -OO mul.py
0.34
0.31
0.34
0.31

D:\py21>python -OO mul.py
0.34
0.31
0.34
0.31

D:\py21>python -OO mul.py
0.33
0.31
0.34
0.31

So, the nifty list-comprehension is at least as
fast as the map+lambda combo, and presumably a
bit faster, about 10% -- at least on this box
(Python 2.1.1, WinNT4, Pentium3-300, lots of RAM).


Alex





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 05:18:43 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:18:43 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 quick reference
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFAD@intrepid>

> From:	Tom Loredo [SMTP:loredo at astro.cornell.edu]
> BTW, I *really* miss the table of contents from the old version
> (a whole page with headings & subheadings and PAGE NUMBERS).  I keep
> the printed copy by my desk (where it doesn't take up any screen
> real estate!) and this made it a lot easier to navigate through.
 
Tom,
Which old version is this? Not one that I have ever seen...

Currently, the base version is in HTML, and the PDF version is produced by
printing to Acrobat PDFwriter, so TOCs and page numbers aren't really
possible.

The longer term plan is to produce an XML base version, with the content
marked up according to its meaning rather than to how it should be
displayed. This could then be converted to HTML, PDF and whatever else. But
it's a big job!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Aug 19 21:48:32 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:48:32 -0500
Subject: bsddb btree open problems with libdb 3?
Message-ID: <15232.27760.728748.899292@beluga.mojam.com>

I just encoutered some problems on my Linux Mandrake system trying to open a
fresh db file with bsddb.btopen when bsddb.so was linked against libdb 3
(/usr/lib/libdb-3.1.so to be exact).  I switched back to anydbm.open and
that seemed to cure it.

Has anyone else had problems with btree files using libdb 3?

Thanks,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Aug 14 20:35:08 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:35:08 +0200
Subject: Wake-on-LAN via Python?
References: <3B79C006.MD-1.4.15.angband@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <s3gcl9.hm3.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:19:49 GMT, Bablos <angband at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi There...
>
>Has anyone managed to implement Wake-on-LAN via Python?

I did at a time, but it got lost :-(

>I assume it's possible, but I'm not sure what kind of programming would be
>involved, and what kind of information would need to be sent to a machine on a
>LAN in order to wake it up.

You can search for wake on LAN on http://freshmeat.net The first and only hit
is a Perl script that does just that.

>Hope someone can point me in the right direction!

The Perl script needs the ARP address of the target machine and the broadcast
address of the packet. It then constructs a "magic packet" and sends this via
UDP to the broadcast address.

Somebody who can read a bit of Perl cuold translate the Perl code to Python,
it's only a few lines.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From macinnis at thecrimson.com  Thu Aug  2 19:04:18 2001
From: macinnis at thecrimson.com (Matt MacInnis)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 16:04:18 -0700
Subject: Mailman 2.0.6 on Mac OS X Server 10.0.4/Python 2.1
Message-ID: <5d26b9bd.0108021504.c0a8d21@posting.google.com>

Hey, all. I'm running Python 2.1 on Mac OS X Server 10.0.4 (that's
basically just BSD) and have successfully installed Mailman 2.0.6.

Python works fine--this doesn't seem to be directly related to Python.
I get the "Bug in Mailman version 2.0.6. We're sorry, we hit a bug!"
message when I try to access admin pages. Executing any of the python
scripts from the command line works (in the sense that it gives the
"bad GID" HTML output).

I am hoping that someone more familiar with Python and/or the Mailman
source will be able to read the following log output and say "Oh,
that's just a permissions error." or something! :)

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps me.

The error log gives me this (I have removed the URL of the server just
to be safe):

Aug 02 18:56:42 2001 admin(18364):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(18364): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.6 -----]
admin(18364): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(18364): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(18364):   File "/Users/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in
run_main
admin(18364):     main()
admin(18364):   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 83,
in main
admin(18364):     cgidata = cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1)
admin(18364):   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py", line
503, in __init__
admin(18364):     self.read_urlencoded()
admin(18364):   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py", line
575, in read_urlencoded
admin(18364):     qs = self.fp.read(self.length)
admin(18364): IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
admin(18364): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(18364): sys.version    = 2.1 (#4, 05/17/01, 18:34:21)
[GCC Apple DevKit-based CPP 6.0alpha]
admin(18364): sys.executable = /usr/local/bin/python
admin(18364): sys.prefix     = /usr/local
admin(18364): sys.exec_prefix= /usr/local
admin(18364): sys.path       = /usr/local
admin(18364): sys.platform   = darwin1
admin(18364): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(18364):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /Library/WebServer/Documents
admin(18364):   SERVER_ADDR: 128.103.29.111
admin(18364):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(18364):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(18364):   PATH_TRANSLATED:
/Library/WebServer/Documents/crimeds-l
admin(18364):   HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(18364):   __CF_USER_TEXT_ENCODING: 0x46:0:0
admin(18364):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(18364):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en
admin(18364):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(18364):   SERVER_PORT: 16080
admin(18364):   HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(18364):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0;
Mac_PowerPC)
admin(18364):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 44
admin(18364):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/crimeds-l
admin(18364):   SERVER_NAME: <server name>
admin(18364):   HTTP_UA_CPU: PPC
admin(18364):   HTTP_EXTENSION: Security/Remote-Passphrase
admin(18364):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /Users/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
admin(18364):   PATH_INFO: /crimeds-l
admin(18364):   HTTP_HOST: <server name>
admin(18364):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(18364):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.19 Server at
<server name> Port 16080</ADDRESS
>

admin(18364):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
admin(18364):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.19 (Darwin)
admin(18364):   PYTHONPATH: /Users/mailman
admin(18364):   HTTP_REFERER: http://<the
server>/mailman/admin/crimeds-l
admin(18364):   REMOTE_ADDR: <removed from posting>
admin(18364):   REMOTE_PORT: <removed from posting>
admin(18364):   HTTP_UA_OS: MacOS


-Matt MacInnis
-macinnis at thecrimson.com


From list.adam at twardoch.com  Tue Aug 21 01:19:15 2001
From: list.adam at twardoch.com (Adam Twardoch)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:19:15 -0700
Subject: [Q/newbie] Converting object names to strings and back?
References: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com> <01082115080705.02447@ike>
Message-ID: <03ba01c12a00$d1ee5a70$c963b440@TWARDOCH02>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Jones" <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au>

> Note that unless you're doing this for reasons of radability or
editability,
> Python already has facilities for dumping and reading objects to and from
> files. Look up pickle and marshal in the standard library reference.

Yes, I've seen pickle & marshall. But I need to make the data I'm writing to
fit particular formatting, and to make it editable. After all, at some point
I will probably want to submit the data to a ODBC database via COM, rather
than writing to a file.

> ... but eval should be considered dangerous (as should $$variable I think)
if
> the source of the string is not "trusted". The first solution is far
safer,
> using explicit introspection techniques.

Thank you Richard! I'll write a function which uses eval for the beginning,
because the code I'm writing is just for internal purposes. At some point,
I'll rewrite the function to use a safer method, like the one you described!

Adam





From digitig at cix.co.uk  Sat Aug  4 19:13:00 2001
From: digitig at cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:13 +0100 (BST)
Subject: XOR two bytes?
References: <3B6C5985.EA285A07@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <memo.20010805001357.60291M@digitig.compulink.co.uk>

In article <3B6C5985.EA285A07 at pacbell.net>, sntial at pacbell.net (Jeanne) 
wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a function to quickly Xor two bytes
> together?
> I have been searching in the docs, but havent' been able to find it.
> Please cc: my cris_paltenghe at yahoo.com address as I don't hang out in
> this newsgroup often.  Thanks for your help! Cris

Do you mean '^'?


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 29 15:11:00 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:11:00 -0700
Subject: test, and password generator
References: <3B8B0698.5070703@alum.mit.edu> <7xofp0yj7h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3B8CE6AC.6000702@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <7xitf6n0l7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Will Ware <wware at alum.mit.edu> writes:
> OK, this seems to work. Though apparently /usr/dict/words is no longer
> available now that I've switched to Red Hat 7.1 (which regrettably is
> still on Python 1.5.2).

You don't want to use /usr/dict/words anyway.  It has a lot of long words
that are slow to type.  Use the wordlist from www.diceware.com.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 19:01:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:01:04 +0200
Subject: Nested scopes and lexical closures
References: <7xu1z5c9lk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lms3301hid@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7xu1z5c9lk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> I see that Python 2.1.1 lets you import nested scopes from the future.
> However, I couldn't easily tell from the documentation whether that
> means you can make lexical closures:

Yes, but not re-bind variables bound in enclosing blocks.


> Of course that's disappointing and I'm wondering if there's some
> intention to fix it in the future.

Only Guido knows, but I suspect he doesn't mean to.  But if you
can think of an utterly simple and obvious syntax that lets you
bind a variable locally even when it's already bound in an
enclosing block, AND also lets you re-bind the variable in the
enclosing block, he might be interested -- I think the inability
to find a syntax to express both in obvious ways was a decisive
factor.

I thought the Java rule might be better: when a variable named
X is bound in an enclosing block, an inner block CANNOT define
a variable named X -- neither bind a new one nor rebind the
one in the outer block.  This would not change functionality
(you'd just have to change names of new variables in inner
blocks whose names conflict with outer-block variables), but
I thought it would avoid the slight confusion that comes with
the present situation, where one THINKS one's re-binding an
outer-block variable but is in fact binding a new local homonym
that shadows (hides) the outer one.

Java adopted this restrictive rule because, in their opinions
and/or studies, homonym variables between inner and outer
blocks turned out to be errors much more often than they
were deliberate choices -- and even when deliberate, the
resulting program was clearer if the inner variable had to
be renamed.  Of course, Java and most other languages are
different from Python in that they distinguish definition and
assignment, which Python doesn't (we only have binding
and re-binding of variables, not 'assignment' as in most
other languages, although we use assignment-syntax).

Anyway, I don't think my musings of the time were very
much listened to.  Some people can't stand my style, and,
alas, it appears our beloved BDFL belongs to that unlucky
minority (not too sure it IS a minority, but they're surely
unlucky for their unfortunate dislikes, aren't they:-).


> Meanwhile I think the
> documentation of nested scopes should be updated to make it clear that
> closures don't work.

Let's see, Python 2.1 reference manual, Appendix A.3 "Nested Scopes",
section A.3.1:

"""
When a name is used in a code block, it is resolved using the nearest
enclosing
scope. The set of all such scopes visible to a code block is called the
block's
environment.

If a name is bound in a block, it is a local variable of that block.
    ...
If a name binding operation occurs anywhere within a code block, all uses of
the name within the block are treated as references to the current block.
This
can lead to errors when a name is used within a block before it is bound.

The previous rule is a subtle. Python lacks declarations and allows name
binding operations to occur anywhere within a code block. The local
variables
of a code block can be determined by scanning the entire text of the block
for
name binding operations.
"""

It seems reasonably clear to me.

PEP 227 at http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0227.html is
I think even clearer:
"""
As a
    consequence, it is not possible to rebind a name defined in an
    enclosing scope.  An assignment operation can only bind a name in
    the current scope or in the global scope.  The lack of
    declarations and the inability to rebind names in enclosing scopes
    are unusual for lexically scoped languages; there is typically a
    mechanism to create name bindings (e.g. lambda and let in Scheme)
    and a mechanism to change the bindings (set! in Scheme).

    XXX Alex Martelli suggests comparison with Java, which does not
    allow name bindings to hide earlier bindings.
"""

What "documentation of nested scopes" is so unclear and needs
to add copies or paraphrases of this paragraph?  If you can supply
the URL's, I'm sure Fred Drake will be happy to fix them as soon
as somebody opens a bug report on the relevant docs.

Note that the fact that you can't re-bind names in enclosing
scopes doesn't mean "you can't make lexical closures" -- there
are plenty of functional languages that are single-assignment
and use immutable data (you can never re-bind any name
anywhere [nor are data mutable]), and yet they make plenty
of lexical closures and use them abundantly.  Python's lexical
closures are more fluid than those, since you CAN still rebind
a local or module-global name, AND mutate (just not re-bind)
data that's bound to enclosing-scope names.


Alex





From guido at python.org  Mon Aug 13 23:49:07 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:49:07 GMT
Subject: Dynamic attribute introspection
References: <QB%d7.117036$Xr6.617102@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <cpelqfe20g.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

> Python allows classes to define dynamic attributes with the
> __getattr__ and __setattr__ methods. This is useful in many
> circumstances, particularly when proxying to external objects such
> as those accessed through object brokers (COM, XPCOM, CORBA, ...),
> databases, and dynamically wrapped APIs.  However, there is no
> generic method for finding the attributes that are available through
> this feature even though the set of attributes is often known at
> runtime by the class.

This is what the new class mechanism attempts to address, in
particular PEP 252.  Please read that PEP.  I hope that it addresses
your concerns, and if it doesn't, I'd like to see what I can do to
address them.  As an intro to the PEP (and its companion, PEP 253),
please refer to the tutorial at http://python.org/2.2/descrintro.html.

With the new class system, many uses of __getattr__ can be replaced by
descriptors for get/set attributes; see the section "Attributes
defined by get/set methods" in the tutorial mentioned above.

Regarding your proposed _getAttributeNames() API, how would it
typically find the attribute names?

> It may also prove useful to define a mechanism to provide doc
> strings for dynamic attributes for display by development tools.

The descriptor mechanism propose in PEP 252 allows for this.

> On a procedural note, is defining a convention an appropriate
> subject for a PEP?

Definitely!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Aug 11 23:45:13 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:45:13 -0400
Subject: Newbee question here.
References: <slrn9n9lct.iff.tim@vegeta.ath.cx> <20010811214747.07561.00000234@mb-fq.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B75FBC9.BDBAFC7@engcorp.com>

Patio87 wrote:
> 
> What exactly does medusa do?

>From www.nightmare.com, whence you presumably downloaded it:

 "A high-performance extensible single-threaded server 
  architecture (currently supporting HTTP, FTP, and other 
  Internet protocols) for Unix and Windows."

(Why did you download it if you don't even know what
it does?)


From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 24 15:02:58 2001
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:02:58 GMT
Subject: Real.py
References: <mailman.998630257.32703.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010824150258.164$TG_-_@newsreader.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, there are at least a few cool packages that lived only
> there, like Jurjen's N.E. Bos's amazingly compact implementation of the
> constructive reals.  Nothing I can do about that, but if some group from
> the community would like to sift through all of it and provide a new home
> for the parts worth salvaging, I bet we could talk Guido into handing
> over an archive tarball.

I'll be honored to host those packages. I have 10 MB free on my site which
is hosted in the USA.
Email me if you think that my offer would help.
Regards,
-Hernan

-- 
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
                    Usenet Newsgroup Service


From manus at bullfrog-tech.com  Fri Aug 31 19:32:12 2001
From: manus at bullfrog-tech.com (Manus Hand)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:32:12 -0600
Subject: Is 0 > None??
References: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com> <qAMj7.156063$EP6.43986636@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3B901E7C.37E25327@bullfrog-tech.com>

Yes, I knew I was opening myself up for nifty-tricking.

And yes, I knew from when the result of "0 < None" changed
when 1.5.2 came out that it is explicit that its undefined.

So I repeat, I knew I was opening myself up.  Just thought
I could convince TPTB that maybe it was worth defining.
If I'm the only one foolish enough to write code that depends
on the result of 0 < None, well, I will feel especially special.

And yes, I knew there was no such thing as sys.minint.  :-)

Someone asked what the affected code was.  Here is
a simplified rundown.

class Consortium:
    def __init__(self):
        self.bids = [None] * 3
    def bid(self, who, amt):
        self.bids[who] = min(self.bids[who], amt)

In other words, I was too lazy to type:
        if self.bids[who] is None: self.bids[who] = amt
        else: self.bids[who] = min(self.bids[who], amt)

Continuing....

    def __cmp__(self, other):
        return cmp(self.bids, key.bids)  # None compares "correctly"

The class provides a list of bid amounts, one for each of three ordered
persons.  These people each contribute money to different consotriums
to purchase something.

Let's say these people are named Al, Bud, and Carl.  Al is bidder #1
(any amount he offers to a cpecific consortium's bid goes into the
[0] element of the bids attribute).  Bud is bidder #2 (his offer goes
into the [1] element) and Carl is bidder #3 (his offer goes into the [2]
element).

If two consortiums offer the same total bid, the one that wins is
the one in which Al offered LESS money.  If Al offered the same amount
to both winning consortiums (or did not contribute to either of them),
then the winning bid is the one in which BUD offered LESS money.
Again, if Bud offered the same amount or did not offer at all, Carl's
data would determine.  (Okay, I simplified the application too much;
if Al and Bud's offer amounts don't break the tie, Carl's sure won't;
trust me, though -- in the real, more complex application, two
Consotriums are guaranteed to compare unequal).

The thing that was handy was that not offering money to a consortium
(i.e., "None" for your entry) compared worse than having offered
a hundred zillion million dollars. (which was worse than having offered
only niney-nine zillion million dollars, which was worse than having
offered ... etc., etc., which was worse than the best possible offer,
which is one single dollar).

Changing the __cmp__() function was a sad thing to do.  I had
created the bids list specifically so that list comparison would work.

I could make the value assigned to "bids" in __init__() thus:
    self.bids = [sys.maxint] * 3

:-(

The thing is, __repr__ was very nice.  It was obvious when someone had
bid money and when he didn't, because the word "None" showed up.

I know I could continue with "None" in the bids, if I'm really that
concerned about __repr__(), but that would mean a __cmp__()
function that is far more complicated than
    return cmp(self.bids, other.bids)

Well, a bit more complicated -- I could do this:
    return cmp([x is None and sys.maxint or x for x in self.bids],
               [x is None and sys.maxint or x for x in self.bids])

Okay, I've wasted enough of your time.

Manus




From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug 12 16:44:58 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:44:58 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108130027530.4209-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>> (Regarding the __dynamic__=1, as discussed on another post, I have a
>> different issue, namely, what should the default be; it seems to me
>> that builtins being immutable as a default, and only changed via
>> explicit mechanisms, is a fine match for the patterns of normal
>> code, but *classes* being immutable by default and needing explicit
>> turning off of this optimization isn't quite as smooth).
>
>A dynamic class will be slower than a static class, so I prefer having
>to request this explicitly.  But we can certainly quibble about that!
>I expect that the new facilities will be seriously user-tested only
>after 2.2 is released, and experience will learn how often people are
>changing class variables.

<< dynamic-on-demand >>

I think that only builtin (written in C) classes must be static by
default. The inability to change class's variables will remove some of the
Python niceness, when it is possible to _simply_ add/remove attributes
to/from classes and instances. This adds a lot of freedom.

Maybe it is possible to inherit builtin methods from builtin classes
without so restricting measures? (When dynamics is turned on not by some
__dynamic__ = 1, but by the fact of inheritance from builtin class.
This why one can still inherit, but this will cause some slowdown.

If I understand correctly, C-functions are speedy, because they find atts
in the static places and user-defined classes use costly lookups.

Maybe it was already suggested, but probably __dynamic__ could be changed
implicitely: when access which need dynamics occurs. Before that, class is
speedy and static (but potentially dynamic - dynamic-on-demand ;-)

This way most of classes will remain speedy (if they do not override but
add) but those which chose to make deeper changes will pay by longer
lookups after the first access swithes class __dynamic__ on.

And it will all be implicit and nobody notices!

(I hope it not total nonsense)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 12, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "Is it possible to feel gruntled?" _/




From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug  3 16:39:21 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:39:21 -0700
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFELDAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <3B6B0BF9.A46BEF2C@ActiveState.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Paul Prescod]
> > ...
> > Yes "x in class y" would be a boolean expression elsewhere but that's
> > just like the current exception syntax which looks like a tuple
> > constructor but isn't really. Either we try to reuse syntax or we don't.
> 
> The current exception syntax *does* accept a tuple constructor:  the special
> case you're "seeing" doesn't actually exist.  For example,
> 
>     try:
>         # whatever
>     except (OverflowError, ZeroDivisionError):
>         pass

I'm talking about the comma between the variable name and the exception
type. It looks like a tuple constructor or an unpack or something else
tuple-related. It also looks totally symmetrical which is another
problem.

> ... Combine it with some backward-compatibility hacks, and you can do
> some, umm, "interesting" things with this:

I wouldn't want to interfere with that important feature. <wink>

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From paul at boddie.net  Tue Aug  7 05:55:50 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 02:55:50 -0700
Subject: Accessing ODBC Database
References: <89302408.0108061933.5d4a4638@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108070155.70966b33@posting.google.com>

tub4jxr at hotmail.com (Jose Rodriguez) wrote in message news:<89302408.0108061933.5d4a4638 at posting.google.com>...
> Can someone assist me with providing a clear example concerning how to
> access a database from the standpoint of:
> 
> a - establishing the connection to the datasource (DSN)

# Here follows some completely untested code for you to
# experience at your own risk! Good luck!

# Using mxODBC with the iODBC software, for example.
import mx.ODBC.iODBC
connection = mx.ODBC.iODBC.connect(dsn, user, password)

> b - how to do the SQL string to query a table

# Check the paramstyle first.
print mx.ODBC.iODBC.paramstyle
# Let's assume that it is "?"...

# Get a cursor.
cursor = connection.cursor()

# Execute a query with parameters according to the assumed
# paramstyle of "?". Here, we'll join two tables implicitly.
cursor.execute("SELECT ANIMAL.NAME, ANIMAL.CAGE, STAFF.NAME" \
    " FROM ANIMAL, STAFF WHERE ANIMAL.CAGE = STAFF.CAGE" \
    " AND ANIMAL.NAME = ?", (the_name,))

# Get the results.
results = cursor.fetchall()
# You should get a list of 3-tuples.

> c - writing a record (insert) to the datasource

# Execute an action with parameters.
cursor.execute("INSERT INTO ANIMAL (NAME, CAGE) VALUES (?, ?)",
    (new_name, new_cage))

> d - deleting a record from the datasource (and moving record pointer
> accordingly)

# Execute another action with parameters.
cursor.execute("DELETE FROM STAFF WHERE NAME = ?", (keeper_name,))

> e - closing the connection

# Close the cursor.
cursor.close()

# Commit or rollback?
connection.commit() # or connection.rollback()

# Close the connection.
connection.close()

> I am currently just overly confusing myself as to how this is done
> (should be done) and what modules to import.  I would like to use
> Python to quickly come up with code periodically to do simple record
> manipulations on a DSN.  Currently I use Winbatch to do my system
> automation but it looks like Python can do everything that WinBatch
> can and then some.

Well, I seem not to be giving the correct mxODBC package "path" in the
example imports on one of my Web pages, so I can understand your
problems in that department. However, it should be a case of following
the installation instructions for that package, at least, and making
sure that the appropriate directory sits on your PYTHONPATH or in your
site-packages directory.

Usage of the DB-API is very similar to numerous other database
libraries: open a connection, open a cursor on that connection,
execute things on that cursor, close the cursor, commit or rollback
the changes on the connection, and then close the connection. A
recommendation from me to prevent possible nightmares: always use
parameters in your queries and actions (that's what the paramstyle
business is about) - it will avoid you ever needing to "quote" any of
your data.

Paul


From grisha at verio.net  Tue Aug 21 16:06:36 2001
From: grisha at verio.net (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:06:36 -0400
Subject: libpython and position-independent code
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.32.0108211544210.3375-100000@localhost>

Hello there -

I am a bit puzzled by what significance PIC code has in shared libraries.
(This is Solaris 8, but I'm intersted in how this applies to other OS's
too)

While tinkering with libtool, I found that it wouldn't link libpython into
a shared library (mod_python.so), because libpython might not be PIC.

But, I can accomplish this without libtool with

ld -G -o mod_python.so mod_python.o _apachemodule.o requestobject.o \
      tableobject.o util.o serverobject.o connobject.o -lm \
      /usr/local/lib/python2.1/config/libpython2.1.a

Is the resulting mod_python.so unsafe to use somehow? It sure seems to
work just fine... Isn't it supposed to crash?

My searching of the net didn't turn up a lot of useful info on the
subject. The Python compile seems to not have the -fPIC option, so I'm
guessing libpython2.1.a isn't PIC indeed.

If it is indeed a problem, then what is the solution?

P.S. Recompiling Python with -fPIC didn't make libtool any happier
regarding libpython2.1.a - but that's just probably libtool suffering from
the "not invented here" syndrom. BTW, the reason I have to tinker with
libtool is because Apache 2.0 relies on it heavily.

Thanks,

Grisha



From quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug 13 18:00:11 2001
From: quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 22:00:11 GMT
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <jtg0b5guox.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu> <9kp4se$gsr$1@panix3.panix.com> <slrn9n5t3n.fmo.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> <9l0tn0$30n$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9ngjf4.c2d.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>

>>Complexity:  With an ssh link you can use plain text.  Over http you
>>have to use complicated html and use some giant bloated browser to see
>>it.  I use systems that have no web browser, but do have ssh.  And a
>>web thing is going to have some complicated nest of cgi scripts that
>>will wind up doing the same stuff you can do directly with a shell.
>
>The flip side is that if you actually want a UI, using HTML and a
>browser is the simplest way of doing that.  Also, it doesn't need to be
>either/or with ssh vs. HTML; you could ssh in and use Lynx, which is
>hardly a bloated browser.

My lynx has a text segment of 978K, which is pretty bloated, especially
considering that it won't do tables which could make your forms pretty ugly.
But that's not really the point (you could use w3m which does do tables and
is 223K) (they also both assume cursor addressing, which isn't universal, but
that's still not the point).  Presumably you have a reasonable machine to
sysadmin from.

Anyway, provided that your definition of "UI" is "web form", then yes, HTML is
probably the easiest and simplest way to do that.

>>Speed:  Web forms are slow and clumsy.
>
>Not under Lynx.  ;-)  People are sometimes amazed at just how quickly I
>can fill out a web form.

I didn't mean that specifically web-forms-under-netscape were slow and clumsy,
but that web forms in general are slow and clumsy, as illustrated below:

>Let's say you're creating new user accounts, and there's a list of ten
>boolean options that are standard (e.g. does this user get sudo
>access?).  Presenting a list of checkboxes in HTML is much easier to
>manage on the UI side than just about any other method.

I think it would be easier, more flexible, and faster to type:

PATH=$psmi_home/bin:$PATH
n() {
    new_user $1
    sudo_register $1
    etc.
}
for u in `cat new_user_list`; do n $u; done

... rather than manually clicking (or tabbing, for lynx or w3m) through a web
form 15 times.  And someday you're going to want to set some of the 15
not-so-standard options, or, more likely, create your own option.  I already
know how to use a shell, why make me learn a whole new web-maze / interface?

If the whole point is to automate system interaction and issue higher-level
commands, why lock that level at whetever level you write your web forms at?
The job is varied enough that predicting the "right" functionality to give
access to in a form will be hard to get right, if possible at all.

It would be possible to create a system consisting of a bunch of small
programs, and then create a seperate tool that takes a list of commands and
states and generates the html and cgi glue to make a form out of it.  You'd
also gain a useful (?) general purpose tool.  Going the other direction would
be much more difficult and would add another brittle layer in between you and
what actually happens.


From guido at python.org  Tue Aug 14 11:42:15 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:42:15 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:56:19 EDT."
             <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> 
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>  
            <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net> 
Message-ID: <200108141542.f7EFgG310204@odiug.digicool.com>

[Drew Csillag]
> > > I don't know if this was intended, but it appears that the metaclass
> > > instantiation doesn't work with Python 2.2a1.  Are the old metaclass
> > > things no longer supported in 2.2 or is it just temporarily broken?

[Guido]
> > Can you be more specific?  What old metaclass are you referring to?
> > It's probably broken because I changed the Don Beaudry hook invocation
> > to favor the new metaclass mechanism that is central to the new types
> > in 2.2.

[Drew]
> Take any of the code in Demo/metaclasses in 2.2a1.  You get tracebacks
> of the variety:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Eiffel.py", line 113, in ?
>     _test()
>   File "Eiffel.py", line 101, in _test
>     class C(Eiffel):
> TypeError: cannot create 'instance' instances
> drew:~/build/Python-2.2a1/Demo/metaclasses>../../python Enum.py 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Enum.py", line 169, in ?
>     _test()
>   File "Enum.py", line 128, in _test
>     class Color(Enum):
> TypeError: cannot create 'instance' instances
> drew:~/build/Python-2.2a1/Demo/metaclasses>
> 
> I guess the real question is: "how does one go about writing metaclasses
> in Python code in 2.2?"

I see.  You will be able to subclass from 'type' (or types.TypeType if
you prefer :-).  Right now this doesn't work right (neiter in 2.2a1
nor in CVS) so I can't post a working demo :-(

But here's something that you *should* be able to write:

class mytype(type):
    def __new__(*args):
        print "mytype.__new__" + str(args)
        return type.__new__(*args)

class C:
    __metaclass__ = mytype

print C.__class__		# <type 'mytype'>
a = C()
print a.__class__		# <type 'C'>

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From juneaftn at orgio.net  Wed Aug 29 23:42:12 2001
From: juneaftn at orgio.net (June Kim)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:42:12 -0700
Subject: RFC: Additional functionality for PyUnit
References: <efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1@posting.google.com> <efd753ca.0108291020.5a76ef01@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5699ebda.0108291942.262d4935@posting.google.com>

[snip]
> Here's my further example.  I have some code I need to unit test that
> basically does a create, append, and modify to some data in a file.
> 
> Test Case:
> 
> Step 1: create the directory to run the test in.  This is a
> global setup step.
> 
> Step 2: Test the create code.  Step 1 must have been run.
> 
> Step 3: Test the append code.  Steps 1 and 2 must have been run.
> 
> Step 4: Test the modify code.  Steps 1 and 2 must have been run.
> 
> Step 5: Delete the test directory.  This is a global teardown step.
> 
> 
> Step 1 creates the directory that is needed by all of the subsequent
> steps.  Step 2 creates a file which is then needed by Steps 3 and 4,
> which means that I can't delete the test directory for each test,
> unless I want to have to run Steps 1 and 2 as part of the setup for
> Steps 3 and 4.

Each unit test should be independent from the others. If you want to 
test a scenario A->B->C->D, either you are thinking about an 
acceptance test, or you should break up the scenario into units A, B, C 
and D and test each one independently first(yeah, you must test each 
unit first before any acceptance tests) If you need to run A and B 
before C in order to test C, don't run through A and B directly, but 
think about the state after their running, and try to build up the 
state(don't compute it through). It could be a mock-up object, hard-coded
inline, whatever.

> 
> Now, in this example, Steps1 and 2 are simple, cheap, and quick to
> run.  But just imagine a situation where Step 1 was 'create an SQL
> database with all tables, columns, and relationships', and Step 2 was
> 'write multimegabytes of setup data to the database'.
> 

Bad smell unless you are doing it for acceptance tests. 

> So, what I really want is for Steps 1 and 5 to be done 'globally',
> that is, I need to create a setup state that persists across all of
> the individual tests contained in the test case, then tear down that
> setup only when all of the dependent tests have been done.
> 
> If PyUnit were to be extended to add a 'globalSetUp' method, run once
> before all other test methods in the test case, and a
> 'globalTearDown', run once after all other test methods in the test
> case,
> that are in addition to the currently-supported 'setUp' and 'tearDown'
> methods, I'd be very happy.
> 
> Or am I missing something that would already give me what I want?

If PyUnit could be more extended without hurting its original 
functionality, it's okay. But it seems like the problem is rather on how 
we use it(or how we understand what test case is) than what it is.

Best wishes,
June


From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  9 08:16:37 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:16:37 GMT
Subject: Dynamic graphs under gtk or other widget set
References: <9kr12v$hs3$1@s1.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <Favc7.138874$um3.866382@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

Tom Huckstep <tom1 at redant.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9kr12v$hs3$1 at s1.uklinux.net...

> I would like to write a mathematical function graph
> plotting program in python with the capability to draw
> `dynamic' graphs.  I'll explain what I mean by dynamic:

> In order to plot functions of two variables, one variable,
> x, say, will change as you move along the x-axis, but the
> other, a, say, will change with time.  A graph of
> f(x,a) = ax will be represented as a straight line that
> gets steeper with time.

Don't know if it will meet your needs or not, but gnuplot is a pretty good
all-purpose plotter.  It will plot mathematical functions as well as sets of
points stored in a file (comma or tab delimited, I don't remember which).  I
suppose that if you can create a mathematical function for it, gnuplot can
plot it.  Also, there is a python interface to it called gnuplot.py at
sourceforge:
http://gnuplot-py.sourceforge.net/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuplot-py/
<note>I have never used gnuplot.py.  I have only used gnuplot and only with
sets of points (and only once with mathematical functions, just to get the
hang of the application).  But it seemed to work rather well for what I used
it for.</note>

> If possible I would like to do this with gtk, because I
> would like to modify a program I have found that already
> plots `static' graphs, but if this isn't possible I'd be
> happy to use any widget set.

Don't know if it (gnuplot.py or gnuplot) will work with gtk.  Gnuplot
primarily either pops up an X window with the result of the graph (if you
are on UNIX) or will store to a variety of different file types.  Hope this
helps.





From karthikg at aztec.soft.net  Wed Aug 22 09:37:11 2001
From: karthikg at aztec.soft.net (Karthik Gurumurthy)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:07:11 +0530
Subject: base classes
In-Reply-To: <3b83a83d$1_3@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJNMDEKBIBCMCNMBDIEKOCCAA.karthikg@aztec.soft.net>

It did'nt work that way for me.
Infact i observed that it depends on
which base class's __init__ is called first for instance data attributes.

But it works the other way for instance method attributes (ie as per the
rules stated)
Can someone make this clear?

thanks,,
karthik.

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Doug Fort
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:10 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: base classes


Pete wrote:

> One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute called
> 'a'
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 1
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 2
> class aa( a1, a2 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
>
> AA = aa()
> print AA.__dict__
> --------------------------------------
> this code prints:
> {'a': 2}
>
> but if I change self.a to self.a_ in class a1:
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a_ = 1
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 2
> class aa( a1, a2 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
>
> AA = aa()
> print AA.__dict__
> ------------------------------------------
> I got:
> {'a_': 1, 'a': 2}
>
> The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
> workaround?
>
> Pete
>
>
>
Check out the Python Tutorial
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011510000000000000
000

<quote>
The only rule necessary to explain the semantics is the resolution rule
used for class attribute references. This is depth-first, left-to-right.
Thus, if an attribute is not found in DerivedClassName, it is searched in
Base1, then (recursively) in the base classes of Base1, and only if it is
not found there, it is searched in Base2, and so on.
</quote>

If you defined class aa as aa(a2, a1), you would find the other value.

--
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News
Source

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Aug  2 21:29:44 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:29:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need clue with import hackery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022117410.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108022123310.835-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, I absentmindedly wrote:

> 
> You might also want to add: 
> 
> 	sys.modules['instance'] = instance 
> 

Nevermind! 
I forgot that your original problem was when instance is 
already another  module name. 

If the names are not going into sys.modules, then I must assume
that they are only going to be imported once. (True?)

-- Steve Majewski





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 14 16:25:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:25:22 +0200
Subject: Progress on missing features?
References: <3b794800.115888839@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <9lc1ir01rqf@enews3.newsguy.com>

"Dinu Gherman" <dinu at reportlab.com> wrote in message
news:3b794800.115888839 at news.t-online.de...
> Hi,
>
> given the recent burst of new features in Python I do wonder
> what happend to those that are missing from Python for a
> long while now? I'm listing here only these:
>
>   - interfaces
>   - class methods
>   - type indicators (opt.)
>
> Being aware of the class/type unification announced for
> before Python 3000, I'm not listing this one above.

Class methods are part of Python 2.2 alpha, which you can
download and try out.  Regarding typing issues, Guido very
recently mentioned that the types SIG is active for a few
weeks a year, mostly spent recalling where they were last
time, so, while eventually optional declarations may be
slated to appear, it may be best not to hold one's breath
while waiting.

On interfaces, see:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0245.html
regarding syntax issues -- status is draft, and Python
version is said to be 2.2;
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0246.html
regarding 'protocol adaptation' -- same status and
version.
I have no idea exactly what that 'version' means in
the PEP's -- e.g., iterators (PEP 234), which emerge
with Python 2.2, are described in the PEP as having
Python version of 2.1.


Alex




Alex





From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 19:26:06 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:26:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question using CGI in Python
In-Reply-To: <NjVi7.185773$g_3.33739543@typhoon.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281923250.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Maan Hamze wrote:

> oppppsss Sorry
> I mistook name for value.
> In this case nothing should be wrong with:
> Hidden = '<input type=hidden name=AnyNameHere value='+str(VAR1)+'>'
> Then use
> print Hidden
> Maan

Just one leeeeeetle thing...

It's missing quotes:

---
Hidden = '<input type="hidden" name="AnyNameHere" value="'+str(VAR1)+'">'
---

Browsers may be lazy, but there's no reason for the HTML coder to be.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Tue Aug  7 18:44:31 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:44:31 +0200
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <005101c11f92$b834f850$44bd6ac2@zko>

From: Lloyd Goldwasser <goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu>
Subject: encapsulation?
> As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
> others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation.  'Way
> back when I was using Objective-C -- and many other OO languages seem to
> have a similar perspective -- there was a lot of emphasis on the ability
> to keep the contents of objects independent of outside influence except
> via well-delineated mechanisms.  Security and reliability were cited as

Python has 'well-delineated mechanism', as you stated below,
name-mangling for private variables.

> major benefits of this approach: every object knew exactly what the
> outside world was going to see and exactly how the outside world might
> act to change its state.  Python provides only the private variable
> name-mangling mechanism for "encapsulating" the contents of objects, and
> it's weak enough that dir(ClassName) announces all of those "hidden"
> contents to the world, at which point they can be altered at will.  I

In C++ include files also 'announces all of those "hidden" contents to the
world'.
Private variables also 'can be altered at will' (tweaked via pointers).

Encapsulation is concept witch has nothing to do with difficulty to be
tweaked _intentionaly_. (IMHO)

encapsulation-is-not-abouth-security-ly-your's gzeljko

> wonder whether this approach, making encapsulation a matter of
> convention rather than something that's provided by the language, is a
> liability.  It would seem to make Python ineligible for use in projects
> that need a more reliable separation between objects and outside
> access.  How hard (or desirable) would it be to provide a stronger kind
> of encapsulation in Python?
>
> Lloyd
>






From sean.mcgrath at propylon.com  Fri Aug 24 05:11:51 2001
From: sean.mcgrath at propylon.com (sean.mcgrath at propylon.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:11:51 GMT
Subject: telephone response systems
References: <3b85b763.1043866@nntp.surry.net> <lwlh7.130658$EP6.36180613@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3b861a0f.179465547@sydney.sligo.propylon>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:22:25 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
wrote:

>
>"Charles W. Strickland" <cstrickland at surry.net> wrote in message
>news:3b85b763.1043866 at nntp.surry.net...
>> How anyone done anything with python or perl with telephone response
>> systems?  I'd like to develop a linux based telephone system.
>
>About a month ago, there was a thread on writing systems that interact
>with humans via telephone.  If this is what you mean, try
>groups.google.com to find it.
>
>Terry J. Reedy
>
You might also be interested in VoiceXML (http://www.voicexml.org).

Sean McGrath



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 16:03:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:03:22 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpelqhf62b.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > I don't see how that would help -- maybe I'm being thick.  How would
> > the uninitialized C instance automatically initialize itself at need?
>
> For example, you could have a __getattr__ that initialized the thing
> as soon as it is touched.

But then *none* of the methods could belong to the class?!  Each and
every one to be inserted afresh in every instance's __dict__?!  But then
what's the use of "making the object the right class from the start",
as that class C HAS to be empty to let __getattr__ do its job?!

Of course, if the initialization is done by __getattr__ anyway, it's
quite futile to use __new__ to "return an empty instance of the
class" -- the necessarily-empty __init__ does just as well, no?  So,
again, I ask -- how is knowing from the start the class C to which
the instance will belong, when its Promise is fulfilled, and exploiting
the __new__ feature to make an empty C.__new__ -- how does
this *HELP AT ALL*?  Your alleged "example" is NOT an example of
all of this glittering technology helping at all with this problem.

Which is not a problem in Python as it stands -- becomes a problem
if and when you implement the "enhancement" (?) of forbidding the
change-class-of-object idiom that Python now supports.


> > Let me give a real-life example (it was not done in Python, but it would
> > have been so much simpler if it had).
>
> I see your reputation for being verbose is not a fable. ;-)
>
> This pattern can be programmed in lots of ways -- changing class is
> just one way, and not necessarily the best.

It's patently obvious that the 'becomes'/class-change way is not the
only way to implement this, considering I described two others.  It's
also pretty obvious to me that class-change is by far the most natural
implementation -- except when targeting a crippled language that
doesn't support class-change.

We need polymorphic behavior along a given interface (mostly
abstract, though it can supply some Template methods [in the
Gof4 terminology] and utilities).  There are several implementations
of this interface, each requiring distinct code and state.  A very
obvious case for placing each implementation in its own class.

Except we need this dual behavior, and switch from one to the
other, to be present in "the same object" from the point of view
of client-code.  So, if a language forbids an object's class to
change, it can't "really" be the same object -- we're forced to
add a layer of indirectness, one way or another.  I still think
letter-envelope is the best idiom for this in C++.  Automatic
delegation does ease the pain where present, as you suggest:

> Note that Python's dynamicism also allows other solutions to be coded
> more efficiently than in C++ -- e.g. coding a proxy in Python is a
> breeze using dynamic method lookup.

Again a class with just a __getattr__ -- an "indirector".  Pretty
powerful idiom, of course, as per the recipe I posted to:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52295.
But it's ironic -- there, I used an indirector to work around the
inability of inheriting from a built-in object.  Now, I look forward
to pensioning off that idiom... and I may have to resurrect it to work
around the inability of changing an object's __class__...!-)


> > > I'd rather not because it's a complicated check to write, and it may
> > > be difficult to explain the restrictions.  Here's an example of the
> > > kind of restriction that is unavoidable.
> >
> > Doesn't this fall into an "identity of slots" case?  If the __class__
> > can be changed only when the slots of the old and new class
> > are identical, isn't this decently easy to check and explain?
>
> That's the check I meant.  The problem is that the info about which
> slots are defined is spread all over the place, and some of it
> (e.g. slots accessed only in C) is not available for introspection.

I guess I'll have to look at the source to understand why that's
so inevitable -- right now it escapes me.  (Is it going to be part
of 2.2alpha2, or do I have to get a CVS tree?)


> > > I'm not sure what that means, but if you could live with weak
> > > references, we could easily add a way to change the referent of a weak
> > > reference object.
> >
> > Now THAT might help in my case -- the UI server would hand out

Thinking about it, it help's because it's an indirector -- a built-in
one.  It would similarly help in other cases where indirectors help,
even when changing-class is anyway inapplicable.

> > references (plus maybe some indeed-weak ones) were all the
> > extant references to the object, then 'becomes' could be
> > implemented for that case, and I believe this might be OK
> > for the cases I have in mind.
>
> I imagine you could probably do this the way persistency is typically
> done, but I haven't thought about it that much.

I think it would suffice to add an option to the existing weak
references to let them incref/decref their referent (in addition
to letting them be reseated, which you say will be easy).

A kludge that's come to mind since, usable if weak refs were
reseatable but still weak, is to give the client a *pair* of
references -- one normal, one weak, initially both to the
fake-object.  The client's tasked to only use the second item
of the pair to address the object, but warned that it is letting
go of the FIRST item that may invalidate the object.  When
the fake object needs to mutate to a true one, it reseats the
weak-reference and sets in itself a normal-reference to the
true object it's generating.  Peculiar indeed, but...

> > Absolutely no objection to THIS: if a mechanism is provided, then
> > having it be more explicit to afford greater performance in the
> > normal case seems quite OK to me.  What I'm afraid of (regarding
> > the change of __class__) is the risk of being left without ANY
> > simple and workable mechanism for tasks that, while perhaps
> > rare, are very important.
>
> It was introduced in Python 1.5, and I never really missed it before
> -- I just added it because I noticed it was easy to add.  I think it's
> not even documented, or if it is (I couldn't find it) it's marked
> experimental.  I still think there are other ways of accomplishing the
> same effect, maybe using a proxy pattern.

Of course, just as there are other ways of accomplishing raising-to-
power, besides having it as a built-in -- it IS just repeated
multiplication, after all.  That's no argument for removing **
from the language, it seems to me.  It IS no doubt rarely used
AND easily mis-used [code such as x**3+2.2*x**2+1.4*x+3.6
rather than 3.6+x*(1.4+x*(2.2+x)) is most likely slower] -- but
that's no real argument for taking ** away, as it may well be the
most natural/clear/readable way to express some problems, and
also (if and when used appropriately) faster than alternatives.


> A dynamic class will be slower than a static class, so I prefer having
> to request this explicitly.  But we can certainly quibble about that!

As I said, exactly Stroustrup's reasoning in C++'s design -- a non
overridable method is faster than a virtual one, so he preferred to
make users request virtuality explicitly.  Like anybody who's ever
taught C++ or helped beginners in that language fix mistakes, I've
had occasion to bemoan that design choice repeatedly -- even though,
with performance such an important priority for C++, and historical
compatibility reasons, it's quite understandable.  It appears to me
making static classes the default is a similar choice, requiring lots of
up-front design (dynamic classes are used to change behavior of
a running program, for example -- to refactor, unless dynamic
classes have been specified beforehand for all important places,
the program needs to be stopped), facilitating premature optimization,
and without Stroustrup's particular excuses (surely performance is not
as key a criterion for Python as for C++, and in this case we'd be
going _against_ historical compatibility).

> I expect that the new facilities will be seriously user-tested only
> after 2.2 is released, and experience will learn how often people are
> changing class variables.

You think people will be changing class variables _less_ often than
now because of 2.2's new facilities?  I don't see the relevance, but
I guess I must have missed something.  The new facilities appear
to be very deep and important, but in areas quite different from
those in which class-object changes are useful, it seems to me.


Alex





From dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au  Tue Aug 28 07:10:31 2001
From: dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au (Dave Harrison)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:10:31 +1000
Subject: |-> Re: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
In-Reply-To: <20010828142445.A19476@isetroc.com>; from dlharris@mail.usyd.edu.au on Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 02:24:45PM +1000
References: <20010828142445.A19476@isetroc.com>
Message-ID: <20010828211031.A23572@isetroc.com>

Thus spake Dave Harrison (dlharris at mail.usyd.edu.au):

> Im writing a script that goes through and reads zipped log.  So far so cool.
> 
> Now the current install on the server is 1.5.2 which is nice, but I was hoping 2.2.1 would be faster at reading the logs by virtue of xreadlines and general tweaking over time.
> 
> But to my surprise and mild horror 1.5.2 was clocking horrendously faster than 2.2.1 ....
> 
> Whats the deal ? It may be something basic Im overlooking but I cant see why 2.2.1 should not at least be the same speed as 1.5.2.
> 
> My basic timing code is as follows :
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> import gzip, time
> list = []
> file = gzip.open('20010615.gz')
> start = time.clock()
> for line in file.readlines():
>         list.append(line)
> stop = time.clock()
> total = stop - start
> print
> print '1.5.2 Running Time : '+str(total)
> print
> -------------------------------------------

> 1.5.2 -> 3 seconds or so
> 2.2.1 -> 13 seconds or so
> 
> Help ?
> 
> Dave
> 


Ok further to my previous post I have now run exactly the same piece of code through both the 1.5.2 interp and the 2.2a1 interp and the speed difference still remains with 1.5.2 a good 9-10 seconds ahead of 2.2a1.

Suggestions ?
Dave



From sill at optonline.net  Wed Aug  8 11:51:07 2001
From: sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:51:07 GMT
Subject: Manually printing traceback?
References: <slrn9n18po.19r.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <upua7i4qt.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9n2nnr.4bm.sill@sill.silmarill.org>

On 07 Aug 2001 23:56:42 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Answering this is a lot harder - can you provide more information on
> the environment within which your application is running, since some
> may suppress tracebacks (e.g., CGI scripts, running without a console
> under Windows).  Or perhaps you just have stderr from your script
> going elsewhere or accidentally discarded ("2>/dev/null" or
> something)?

Exactly, that's what I was doing.. I realized that while reading your post
where you say that it's redirected to stderr.

Thanks a lot, to all who answered!

 - Andrei
> 
> --
> -- David


-- 
Cymbaline: intelligent learning mp3 player - python, linux, console.
get it at: http://silmarill.org/cymbaline


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug 22 04:27:23 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:27:23 +0100
Subject: Python users
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78C002@intrepid>

> From:	Kim C Tran [SMTP:KCT at EMIA.com.au]
> I'm really new to python language, where is the best place to learn ?? 
 
If you haven't programmed before, check out Alan Gauld's 'Learning to
Program' at <http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/>, or 'How to think like a
Computer Scientist', at
<http://www.andamooka.org/reader.pl?section=thinkpython>. These are aimed at
teaching programming using Python to complete beginners.

If you have programmed before, try 'Dive into Python at
<http://diveintopython.org/> or the Python Tutorial at
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>.

Links to *loads* of tutorials can be found at
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Docu
mentation_and_Tutorials/>.

For anything else you want to know, the best place to start is
<http://www/python/org>, the home of Python. Here you will find an FAQ and
all the links you could possibly want.

And don't forget the Python tutor mailing list, at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor>. Well worth joining if you
are learning Python!
 
>  and where can I find the latest of Pythonwin for python2.1 ??
 
<http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/Extensions/Win32all
>, or for Python and PythonWin combined,
<http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com  Tue Aug 21 14:51:30 2001
From: richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com (RT)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:51:30 +0100
Subject: Example wanted for inspect module
Message-ID: <B5yg7.303492$Do6.12699793@nnrp4.clara.net>

The inspect module's getmembers() function takes 2 arguments - the object
whose members you want to retrieve and an (optional) predicate.

Could somebody please provide an example of how the predicate is used (for
example - to get only the functions from a module).

thanks,
RT





From rhok2807 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 23:46:19 2001
From: rhok2807 at yahoo.com (Don't Miss It.)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 19:46:19 -0800
Subject: Don't Miss It!
Message-ID: <200108090040.VAA22392@server2.gba.gov.ar>

I am at the top of a hot new company that is just now starting it's
massive explosion. This company has the greatest compensation plan in the
history of network marketing and you have the opportunity to get in at the
top, but not for long. I am not going to go into great detail in this e
-mail but if you are really serious about making money and you want to be
in the right program that will get you making the big dollars then waste
no time. 
 
Here is what you need to do.
Send an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo.com
and I will send you more information immediately.
 
Once you have done this I will be in contact to get you more information
as quick as possible before you no longer have time to be positioned at
the top. Just ask yourself the following questions:
"Have I ever had the opportunity to be in a mlm program at the top?"
"Would I like to have an opportunity like that?"
 
If your answer to the second question was "YES" then waste no time sending
an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo.com for more information and I will waste no
time getting back to you with the important information that you will need
to get going..
 
This Is Your Chance To Be At The Top For A Change!
 
DO NOT reply to this e-mail for more information because you may never get
it and you certainly do not want that, so send an e-mail to ewnbill at yahoo
.com for more information immediately. Just so you know I have my e-mail
account set up so when you send an e-mail for more information you will
immediately receive an e-mail that reads "Yahoo! Auto Response" in the
subject line and do not worry it will not put you on a list of any kind. I
did this to ensure that you get the important information right away and
do not have to wait for me.
 
I Look Forward To Working With You!
Sincerely,
Bill Miller
(540) 347-9055








To be removed from future mailings: 
mailto:rhok2807 at yahoo.com?Subject=Remove 








From paul at boddie.net  Fri Aug 17 12:37:29 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
References: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108170837.6f52beb9@posting.google.com>

web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green) wrote in message news:<270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac at posting.google.com>...
> Despite these IDE's, it seems that most Python developers use a text
> editor to program Python. Here are three theories about this:
> 
> a. Python is the kind of language that doesn't need a lot of tool
> support.

[...]

> c. Python programmers are the kind of people that don't use IDEs.

I can't say that I've ever been completely immersed in an IDE and
enjoyed the experience, although there are certain things about
PythonWin (which I started to play with recently) which are quite
nice, such as attribute completion. One thing I don't like about
PythonWin is the "C64-like" editing mode - I much prefer the readline
interface, but there is a multi-line readline interface which could
appeal to me, I suppose. (There was also a weird bug which came up
every now and again while editing programs - if I were using it now I
would probably be able to report the details within a few minutes.)

Integrated debugging and GUI layout support may well be the main
benefits of IDEs, and you note that many of the available IDEs offer
only these things on top of program editing and an interactive session
window. For me, intensive debugging support with breakpoints and so on
are only really interesting when trying to track down bugs in
languages like C, when the program crashes spectacularly due to some
uninitialised pointer.

As for GUI builders, since I don't do "native" GUI design (preferring
Web application development instead) there isn't a big selling point
left to appeal to me amongst the different packages. Perhaps I
underestimate the utility of a comprehensive IDE, but since I'm
happier with the command line than the IDE implementation where things
like version control are concerned, current generation IDEs have some
way to go before I'll use one.

Paul


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 25 02:56:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:56:43 -0400
Subject: scoping weirdness
In-Reply-To: <7x4rqwllrn.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEOMLHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Rubin]
>     from __future__ import nested_scopes   # python 2.1.1
>
>     def foo (n):
>         a = lambda: 'you said (%d)' % n
>         n += 3
>         return a
>
>     x = foo(1)
>     print x()
>
> This prints 4, rather than 1 as I would have expected.
> I think I understand what's going on, but is it really what was intended?

Of course.  Try the same thing in Scheme (which you've already confessed to
knowing <wink>):

(define (foo n)
  (let ((a (lambda () n)))
    (set! n (+ n 3))
    a))

(define x (foo 1))

After that, (x) evaluates to 4 too.  Same thing:  lambdas aren't macros
expanded at definition time, the "n" in the body is an uplevel reference to
the current binding of n in the enclosing scope at the time the lambda body
is *executed*.  In your case (and in the Scheme rewrite), n is rebound to 4
before the body is executed, so 4 is what the body sees.

> Is there a preferred way of writing this kind of function?

Ya, use Scheme <0.6 wink>.  If you want to capture a vrbl's value at
function *definition* time, you could, e.g., abuse default arguments, a la

    a = lambda n=n: 'you said (%d)' % n

Or you could do any of the things you'd do in Scheme, most obviously just
refraining from rebinding n in the enclosing scope.

Most Python programmers would write a class, though, explicitly binding an
instance variable to the value they wanted at the time they wanted to
capture it.  Like:

class Whatever:
    def __init__(self, n):
        self.n = n
        n += 3

    def __call__(self):
        return 'you said (%d)' % self.n

x = Whatever(1)
print x()

That prints

    you said (1)

It's a bit more typing at the start, but more flexible in the end, because
the state is materialized explicitly (and so open to fiddling via writing
new methods as requirements change), rather than implicitly hidden away in
closures.




From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Thu Aug  2 00:32:32 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:32:32 +1000
Subject: Newbie Tip: Classes and variable passing vs instances from ENGSOL
In-Reply-To: <3b68cf98.10350162@news.onemain.com>
References: <3b68cf98.10350162@news.onemain.com>
Message-ID: <01080214323201.14140@ike>

On Thursday 02 August 2001 14:12, engsol at teleport.com wrote:
>   def __init__(self_1, input):
>       print "from the \"__init__ thing\"  :   " + input

Just a brief tip: the above can exploit python's ability to use two quote 
characters to delimit strings:

  def __init__(self_1, input):
      print 'from the "__init__ thing"  :   ' + input

also, since there's plenty of whitespace involved, you might as well use this 
slightly faster form of the above print statement that doesn't involve a 
string concatenation:

  def __init__(self_1, input):
      print 'from the "__init__ thing"  :  ', input

[note that I trimmed a space from the end of the first string to compensate 
for the additional space incurred using the ','.


     Richard



From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Aug 20 09:20:50 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:20:50 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1.1 on old Debian box with Linux kernel 2.0.39
References: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com> <20010820151851.B4970@mediasupervision.de>
Message-ID: <3B810EB2.D4CB1E97@stroeder.com>

Gregor Hoffleit wrote:
> 
> * Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> [010820 14:59]:
> > I have troubles installing Python 2.1.1 on an old Debian box with
> > Linux kernel 2.0.39. The kernel sources are available. Building the
> > socket module fails with error message:
> >
> > /tmp/W3311/Python-2.1.1/Modules/socketmodule.c:178:
> > netpacket/packet.h: No such file or directory
> 
> Which Debian version is this ?
> 
> Which libc version is installed ('dpkg -l "libc*" |grep ii') ?

$ dpkg -l "libc*" |grep ii
ii  libc5           5.4.38-1.1     The Linux C library version 5
(run-time libr
ii  libc6           2.0.7.19981211 GNU C Library: shared libraries
ii  libc6-dev       2.0.7u-4       The GNU C library version 2
(development fil

Ciao, Michael.



From leodebeo at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 30 09:22:29 2001
From: leodebeo at hotmail.com (LeoDeBeo)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:22:29 GMT
Subject: python/qt
Message-ID: <p6rj7.26299$6x5.5693111@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

using qt with python, i have following problem

i imported qt  'from qt import *'   (every qt-class i use works)
but when i want to set the alignment of a label, the constants aren't 
recognized.
label= QLabel(parent)
label.setText(string)
label.setAlignment (AlignCenter)

complaint: NameError: global name 'AlignCenter' is not defined

tx


From bh at intevation.de  Thu Aug 30 07:28:08 2001
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 13:28:08 +0200
Subject: Ref Count Checking
References: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <4325613.PTg5d078U9@lunix.schabi.de> <t0iq6IAy$gj7Ewry@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6qofoxbxdj.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> well I don't have to do that in my extension and things seem to work fine with the external
> results. Perhaps I'm being naive when I do
> 
> PyDict_SetItemString(attrs, name, t=PyString_FromString(sValue));
> Py_DECREF(t);
> 
> ie I haven't interned anything.

PyDict_SetItemString interns the keys.

In the following example the interpreter interned a few strings for you:

> Would the module need two extra refs as in
> 
> >>> from sys import getrefcount as rc
> >>> p={'az1': 99999}

99999 is not in the range of shared ints (range(-1, 100) by default
IIRC), so after this statement there's exactly one reference to it in p.
(During execution there were more references because literals are stored
in code objects and they get put on the stack etc., but the code object
and stack have been collected at this point)

> >>> q={'az2': 'az3'}

Here it's a little different because 'az3' is a string that looks like
an identifier. These strings are always interned, so there are now 3
references, one from the dict q, and 2 from interning. Interning takes 2
refs because there's a dict of all interned strings which has the
interned strings as both keys and values.

> >>> rc(p['az1']), rc(q['az2'])

When you pass an object to getrefcount it's put into the argument tuple
python builds for every function call, so the value returned by
getrefcount is always at least one higher than one might expect.

> (2, 4)

Thus, this is exactly what you should get for the dfault configuration
of the CPython interpreter.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                               http://mapit.de/


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug  3 00:57:36 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:57:36 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <GHF1qw.KHD@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECHLDAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Will Ware]
> ...
> I'm trying to remember when and where exactly Guido promised me
> that I would get a heavily weighted vote in the design of Python.
> As I sift through my few memories of direct interaction with Guido,
> I come up with "never".

No, he doesn't promise votes, but if you *want* votes, all you have to do is
ask for them.  Heck, if you want a *million* votes, just ask and you'll get
them too.  I have at least trillions of votes, thanks to a signing bonus.
You can even sell your votes to others, if you want -- votes are granted
under a very Pythonic "do whatever you want" license.  Here:

    +-------------------------------------------+
    | Be it known that this instrument entitles |
    | the bearer to 1000000 (One Million)       |
    | Python Votes.                             |
    |                                           |
    | GvR                                       |
    +-------------------------------------------+

Make as many copies as you like.  Guido promises to honor them at the stated
value -- provided that an issue arises that's open to voting.

the-price-of-fool's-gold-is-always-too-high-ly y'rs  - tim




From stevewilliams at wwc.com  Thu Aug 16 22:55:53 2001
From: stevewilliams at wwc.com (Steve Williams)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:55:53 GMT
Subject: weird behavior with ftp.connect on Windoze
References: <9lhvnd$mp4$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3B7C8872.FBC62A52@wwc.com>

John Whittaker wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> [snip]

>
> BTW, I can't keep up with this newsgroup anymore.  It's just too big.
>

Erm, actually, it's gotten rather small.  Like Henry James, it's chewing more
than it's bit off.





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Aug  4 15:10:44 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:10:44 -0400
Subject: Compatibility of smtplib with some SMTP server
References: <mailman.996887407.12175.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZKXa7.12679$si.196533@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

Setting the smtp library to run in debug mode will tell you what's happening
between their server and your client.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"Dirksen Lau" <dirksen.lau at polyu.edu.hk> wrote in message
news:mailman.996887407.12175.python-list at python.org...
Hi,

I'm using my campus smtp server to test python's send mail script. It works
if the mails are addressed to campus accounts, but strangely fails if
addressed to outside networks, such as xx at yahoo.com, The mails just vanish!
Using outlook express, I can send mails to xx at yahoo.com throught the campus
smtp server. On the other hand, the script works again with xx at yahoo.com if
I change to another smtp server. I'm wondering smtplib might have some
compatibility issues with smtp server? Am I correct? If so, what can I do
about it? I'm running python 1.5.2 win32 bineray version.

Cheers
Dirksen





From hfoffani at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 29 17:19:04 2001
From: hfoffani at yahoo.com (Hernan M. Foffani)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:19:04 GMT
Subject: weird math errors in python 2.1.1
References: <70461e98.0108291227.5aa2a0f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20010829171904.231$dn@newsreader.com>

andrew at mail.idrive.com (andrew) wrote:
> in interactive interpreter, i get these results:
>
> >>> 21.0 /5
> 4.2000000000000002
.... etc....

> anyone else seeing this?  is this a known bug?

yes. no.
Please, read http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.98

Regards,
-Hernan.

-- 
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
                    Usenet Newsgroup Service


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Aug  7 23:56:42 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 23:56:42 -0400
Subject: Manually printing traceback?
References: <slrn9n18po.19r.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <upua7i4qt.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:

> Hello,
> 
> If I run this code: l = []; print l[1], I get a traceback.
> If I change it to:
> 
> import sys
> l = []
> try: print l[1]
> except:
>     print sys.exc_info()
> 
> I get a tuple, 3rd element of which is the traceback object. How do i print
> it? I tried doing print sys.exc_info()[2]() but that doesn't work. I also
> read libref and langref and i couldn't find anything enlightening on this.
> I found a post where paul prescott asks a similar question and gvr tells him
> that you basically have to read code for some debugger, or something of this
> sort.. that's over my head, i'm afraid.

Depending on what you want to do, you could:

    import traceback

    try:
        print l[1]
    except:
        traceback.print_exc()

This will print a standard traceback to sys.stderr.  You can adjust
where the traceback goes by adding a "file=xxx" parameter to the
print_exc() call where xxx is a file object.  You can also specify the
depth of the traceback as a parameter.  The traceback is automatically
generated from the information in sys.exc_info(), which is why it's
easy to use directly in an exception handler.  There are other print_*
functions in the traceback module for finer grained control over the
exception information it decodes.

Or if you are trying to get traceback information in a readable form
to use or transfer elsewhere, there are format_* functions in the
traceback module that yield tracebacks as strings which you can then
manage separately.  So an replacement to the above might be:

    import sys, traceback

    try:
        print l[1]
    except:
	msg = apply(traceback.format_exception,sys.exc_info())
	sys.stderr.writelines(msg)

although in such a case you'd probably use 'msg' (which is a list of
strings) to save or transfer the formatted traceback elsewhere rather
than just writing it to stderr.

> The reason i ask is that my program (cymbaline) doesn't print out exceptions
> that it raises. I have no idea why.. I don't have any big chunks in try:
> except: catch-all blocks.. So, alternatively, if i knew what else could be
> causing this, i wouldn't need the answer the my first question. I just need
> the answer to either one :P

Answering this is a lot harder - can you provide more information on
the environment within which your application is running, since some
may suppress tracebacks (e.g., CGI scripts, running without a console
under Windows).  Or perhaps you just have stderr from your script
going elsewhere or accidentally discarded ("2>/dev/null" or
something)?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From maxm at normik.dk  Tue Aug  7 10:20:18 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:20:18 +0200 
Subject: Zope python paths
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197DC7@exchange>

Just use the direct path to the Python embedded in your Zope, like this:

c:\zope24\bin\python c:\zope24\z2.py

And it will use the correct version of Python for you.

regards Max M

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Becker [mailto:robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 3:15 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Zope python paths
> 
> 
> I have just installed Zope 2.4 and am trying to get some 
> packages to run
> with it. These are failing fairly miserably with really strange errors
> such as can't find module asyncore.
> 
> I suspect path confusion with my existing Python 2.1 setup.
> 
> A simple check with an external method
> 
> def pythonPath():
>         import sys
>         s='path=\n'
>         for p in sys.path:
>                 s += p + '\n'
>         return s
> 
> give me that the path inside this method is
> 
> path=
> C:\Python\WebSite\lib\python\ZopeZODB3
> C:\Python\WebSite\lib\python
> C:\Python\WebSite
> C:\Python\WebSite/lib/python
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/plat-win
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/win32
> C:\Python\WebSite/bin/lib/win32/lib
> C:\Python\WebSite
> C:\Python\WebSite
> c:\python\pythonwin                     !
> c:\python\win32                         !
> c:\python\win32\lib                     !
> c:\python                               !
> c:\python\website\bin\dlls
> c:\python\website\bin\lib
> c:\python\website\bin\lib\plat-win
> c:\python\website\bin\lib\lib-tk
> c:\python\website\bin
> 
> the bits marked with ! are obviously causing some confusion as they
> relate to my existing installation. Is there an obvious way to inhibit
> this erroneous path pickup if I can determine where it comes from?
> 
> I don't seem to have a PYTHONPATH environment variable set in the .cmd
> file that runs zope. 
> -- 
> Robin Becker
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Wed Aug  8 03:04:49 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 09:04:49 +0200
Subject: C extension reference count confusion (always)
References: <9kpd1t$1vl9$1@newshost.nmt.edu>
Message-ID: <yv2n15b6nhq.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

"Bob Greschke" <bob at passcal.nmt.edu> writes:

> - OK. I have a Python program that call a C extension function.
> - The C function malloc()s a large chunk of memory for use as
> an integer array.
> - The C function then uses the NumPy function
> PyArray_FromDimsAndData()
> to create a NumPy array using the malloc()ed memory as its first
> address,
> and then calls another C function to fill up the malloc()ed/NumPy
> array with data.
> - The extension function then returns the NumPy array.  This all seems
> to work fine.

I don't have easy access to the docs of NumPy currently. But you can
check yourself: does PyArray_FromDimsAndData() 

a) gobble your malloc()ed chunk of mem to keep it in its internal
structure 
  OR
b) copies data out of it into its very own allocated memory?

From what you write, I assume (a) is true,
i.e. PyArray_FromDimsAndData() creates a fresh Python object (mostly)
from the memory you prepared. That means you no longer have to care
for the malloced chunk but rather for the Python object, but...

That Python object, as I understand, is returned by the C extension
function to the Python machinery which called that function. That is,
the extension function gives away its (only counted) reference to the
Python machinery. Consequently the Python machinery is now responsible
for deallocating it eventually.

In your Python code you probably assign the result of calling the
extension function to some variable. As soon as this variable --- and
any others you might have assigned the value to in the meantime ---
goes out of scope, the array will be destroyed. This happens, for
example, when leaving the current function.

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Wed Aug  8 11:33:19 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:33:19 -0700
Subject: Tcl/Tk......
References: <2209a682.0108080302.44b9a5f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B715BBF.67E399D1@ActiveState.com>

Relfx wrote:
> 
> I have python 2.1.1 but I noticed python didn't install tcl/tk just
> gave a support folder for it. Do I have to download it separately or
> something or is built into python itself now. Can someone explain this
> to me please?

Where did you get Python and what platform are you running it on? On
Unix, you typically do have to instal tcl/tk separately. On Windows, you
typically don't.

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From mac4-devnull at theory.org  Thu Aug 16 22:22:39 2001
From: mac4-devnull at theory.org (Neil Macneale)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 02:22:39 GMT
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.993251195.18080.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7c7fef$0$323$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>

In every code snipet, I see different problems. Some of then I am not
sure how you achieved...

this works for me:

>>> a=0
>>> b=1
>>> while b < 1000:
...     print b
...     a,b = b,a+b
1
1
2
3
5
8
13
21
34
55
89
144
233
377
610
987
>>> 

crombie <crombie88 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> newbie question:
> trying to type this in:
> >>> a, b = 0, 1
> >>> while b < 1000:
> ...     print b,
> ...     a, b = b, a+b
> ... 
> 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987
> 
This one looks pretty good, but you should not have a comma after the
'print b'


> 
> but result is this:
> >>> while b< 10
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
You need a ':'

> >>> while b < 10:
> ... print b
> IndentationError: expected an indented block (line 2)
Like the error says, you need some indentation after the '...'

> >>> while b < 10:
>        print b
>        a, b = b, a+b ...
>        
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
What happened to your indent prompt?!?!

> >>> while b < 1000:
> ...     print b,
> IndentationError: expected an indented block (line 2)
Not sure why you got an indentation error, but you should not have the
comma after the 'print b' again.

> >>> while b < 1000:
>   ...  print b,
>   
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
no comma, again.


Neil Macneale

-- 

If you want to email me, remove the '-devnull' from my email address


From cbarber at curl.com  Wed Aug  1 10:12:37 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 10:12:37 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996620943.17056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <psod76fzx62.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> writes:

> On 31 Jul 2001, Christopher Barber wrote:
> 
> > > On 30 Jul 2001, Christopher Barber wrote:
> > > > This is a bad example because the code is doing runtime, not 
> > > > compile-time checking.  I was talking about the advantages of 
> > > > compile-time checking.
> > >
> > > ?? Please review the example - that's compile-time checking there.
> >
> > No it isn't!  The (Integer) cast is not performed until run-time.
> 
> Thank goodness! I'll just remove that there and ... doh! it won't even
> compile anymore. Hmm... there's actually a little of both there,
> compile-time _and_ runtime checking.

Yes, but the actual type error that we are interested in here is that the
program needed an integer but got a string instead.  That particular type
error is not detected until runtime in the Java example you provided and that
is why it is not a relevant example.  You are absolutely correct that using
statically typing does not ensure that all type errors will be detected at
compile time, but it does catch many.
 
> > > > Here is how this would be written in Curl:
> > > >
> > > >    let v:{Array-of String} = {new {Array-of String}}
> > > >    let s:String = "hi"
> > > >    {v.append s}
> > > >    let i:int = v[0]        || ERROR: can't assign a String to an int
> > >
> > > But what benefit have I gained?
> >
> > You have detected a bug at compile-time instead of run-time and you didn't
> > have to write a unit-test to find it.
> 
> Take off your Curl glasses for just a moment and think Pythonically - that
> is an error only because of the language-specific constraints - in Python
> it's neither an error nor a problem.

I used Curl as an example, not only because I know it well but because I know
that what could be done in Curl could also be added to Python.

As to the error, this would indeed be an error in Python as well but it would
happen later in the program when some code tries to use 'i' as an integer
instead of a string.
 
> Don't you think that it's possible that Python is
> taking care of many of the type-related problems for you?

Sure.  By providing consistent dynamic typing and disallowing unsafe casts it
can be considered superior to C/C++

> > The language does not force you to specify types, this would also be legal,
> > but you would not see the problem until you actually executed the code:
> 
> Again, it's a problem _created_ by the constraints of the language, and/or
> the division of labor between the language and the programmer. It doesn't
> apply here (since we're supposedly exploring the weaknesses that _Python_
> has without strict compile-time type checking.

I don't see why it doesn't apply.  If I am forced to do more work because
Python doesn't do it for me, then why can't I consider that to be a weakness
in the language?

> > > The fact that the compiler can detect my breakage of the
> > > language-specific rules doesn't really advance the notion that
> > > strict compile-time checking is beneficial.
> >
> > Sure it does.  You might not believe that it is worth the trouble, but it
> > clearly has some benefits.
> 
> And those benefits are? I'm still waiting for anyone to be specific about
> these benefits.

Then you are not paying attention.  

  1) Static type declarations allow the compiler to catch some type errors 
     that would not otherwise be detected until run-time.  There is no
     question about this fact.  You might not think the benefit is significant
     enough to be worthwhile, but that is a different issue.

  2) Static type declarations allow the programmer to clearly express
     their intent.  In this role they are only a shade better than comments.

  3) Compile time type information is necessary to generate fast code.  It
     must either come from type declarations or must be inferred.  Inferring
     types in the absence of any static type declarations is difficult and 
     requires analysis of the entire program; this analysis is at best
     O(n log n) but is more likely to be O(n^2) -- in other words it could
     become too expensive for large programs.

> A few people have asserted that big Python programs would be unmanageable
> without this compile-time checking, but it seemed like they were speaking
> from other-language, and not Python, experience. 

I was not one of those people.  I have worked on a large project using almost
300k lines of Tcl code (a truly horrendous language) so I am quite sure that a
Python project of this side would be feasible.  However, I would have concerns
about the performance and testability of such a large Python application.

>   Python's features and overall simplicity tend to eliminate or
>   significantly reduce whole classes of problems, including many
>   type-related problems. _Some_ strictly-,statically-typed languages
>   introduce artifical complexities that cause more problems than they
>   solve.

I agree with this.
 
> > > What is a real world problem that would not have existed if Python had
> > > strict compile-time checking, and how common is such a problem?
> >
> > Here is a real-world problem: a developer wants to use a language with
> > compile-time type checking and rejects Python because it doesn't have it.
> 
> This is pretty consistent with the whole body of arguments we've heard so
> far: this feature is beneficial in other languages, so if Python doesn't
> have it, Python is obviously lacking. To me that reasoning ignores the
> fact that maybe, just maybe, there exists more than one solution to the
> problem.

No, I was just trying to make a point that the Python audience is smaller than
it might otherwise be.

> As languages evolve we generally find it a bargain to exchange a little
> CPU for features that relieve developers of work and at the same time
> eliminate developers' bugs. By moving from assembly to C the number of
> bugs per _assembly_ line of code dropped dramatically. Is it too much to
> imagine that the same does not hold true when moving on up the language
> scale?

Not at all.  The question is how many cycles are you willing to spend and when
are you willing to spend them (e.g. compile-time vs. run-time).

> > I actually used Python on a number of projects a couple of years ago and
> > did spend more time than I would have liked writing tests to detect type
> > consistency.
> 
> Wonderful! Can you please post some examples? Was this proactive testing
> or was it triggered by problems you were seeing? If was the result of
> problems, what were they?

That was a couple of jobs ago and I don't have access to that code anymore.
One problem I remember having was that I was writing library code and had to
write explicit run-time type-checking code to check the types of incoming
arguments.  It was not difficult to do, but it was extremely tedious.  If I
could even have had the ability to put type declarations in function
signatures and have Python generate the run-time type checks I would have been
much happier.

I also found that I had to write longer unit tests for my Python code than for
my C++ code.

I am sorry that I cannot be more specific.

BTW, is there a code coverage measurement tool for Python yet?

- Christopher


From mjackson at wrc.xerox.com  Wed Aug 15 17:18:00 2001
From: mjackson at wrc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:18:00 GMT
Subject: Integer division and remainder
References: <Xns90FEE4C507380rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9leou8$a05$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Robert Amesz <reqhye72zux at mailexpire.com> writes:
> Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:
> 
> > 14 Aug 2001 16:20:57 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com>
> > pisze: 
> > 
> >>    7 / 3 =  2
> >>   -7 / 3 = -3
> >> 
> >> This is kind of strange.  Normally you expect (-a)/b to be the
> >> same as -(a/b). That's what happens in most languages, where
> >> division rounds towards zero: 
> > 
> > Donald Knuth says that Python is right and C is wrong, and I agree
> > with him here. I expect a%b for positive b to return a value in the
> > range [0, b).
> 
> You might be interested to know that a well-known and widely used 
> formula for calculating the day of the week, Zeller's congruence, 
> failed on many systems for dates >= 2000 just because on most systems 
> the mod-function gave the wrong results for negative values. On Python 
> the problem wouldn't have occurred, its mod-function is mathematically 
> correct.

Yes!  That was the very problem with the old to-do list
manager xvtdl, which I fixed back in early 2000; find the code at
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson/xvtdl.html.  While diagnosing
this behavior I implemented the algorithm in Python for test purposes,
and was led astray for a while by the fact that it *didn't* fail!

Q:  What multiple of 7 did I add to the critical expression in the Zeller
    algorithm so it will remain nonnegative for the next few centuries?

A:  42

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	Don't talk to the crazy people on the street, even though
	they may seem fun to be with.
	    - /CityPack, New York/ Chinese language edition (1996)




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Mon Aug  6 19:01:56 2001
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:01:56 -0500
Subject: weird COM behavior, sets arguments to Null
Message-ID: <fiFb7.378$5N2.62777@news1.iquest.net>

I made a COM server that is a wrapper to the bsddb.  (this is unimportant,
however, as i have seen this behavior from other objects as well.)  if i
pass a single argument to the server everything is fine, if i pass more than
one, python resets them all to null values.

for example, vb code
-----------------------
dim key
dim value
dim i
key = "1"
value = "one"
Set odb = CreateObject("bsddb.db")
'open a file
odb.open("C:/somefile.db", "hash", "c")
'is it a key
i = odb.has_key(key)
'i has a value of 1 or 0, and key is still "1"
'add/update an item
odb.set_item(key, value)
'key now is null.
------------------------

the only workaround i can think of is to declare another variable, set it =
to key and pass it.  do i really need 2 variables to pass arguments to COM
servers, or is this a bug.


thanks,

doug




From kosh at aesaeion.com  Thu Aug 23 19:10:09 2001
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:38:09 +0028
Subject: Plethora of strange cracker newbie questions
References: <3B85E791.E18BA991@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <h8p4m9.uas.ln@192.168.0.1>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Is it just me, or does it look like there's a new world-wide
> organization of Python newbie crackers all asking questions
> here with an eye towards creating some Python script bent
> on world domination or at least other nefarious deeds?
> 
I have to admit that does bother me. However since some of these
things can easily be used for good or bad I would be inclined to help
those that could easily be used for good and just ignore the ones
to which I can see no good use.

> Recently we've had a spate of newbies who "need" to send email
> (bulk mailer slime?), ping stuff (target discovery), interact
> with IRC servers (anyone not read http://grc.com/dos/intro.htm
> yet?), and several others I've already forgotten, including
> some which as I recall would be useful in building elements
> of a virus.

The irc one I can think of some good uses for. I had a program at one time 
that would watch stuff on an irc server then alert me to things of interest.
pinging can be very useful since you can write a script to make sure your 
various computers are up. If one goes down you can spawn off a task to 
notify you. However the others are far less useful. 

> 
> Whatever happened to the good old newbies who asked about
> how to create a file so they could track their video tape
> collections on their computers?  Why are they jumping
> straight to low-level script-kiddie stuff which few of
> us even get a chance to do?
>
It sure does seem we have been attracting a lot of kiddies recently. I hope 
they go away or grow up. Overall script kiddies annoy me to no end.
 
> Not that I don't like newbies or anything, but maybe it
> wouldn't be wise to be quite so blindly helpful as most
> c.l.py inhabitants have been in the past.  Maybe some
> hesitation and just dumping working source at them would
> be advisable.
> 
> Am I just overly sensitive?
> 

Some of your observations I agree with others I see in a different light 
because of other work I have done.


From lee.reilly at ntlworld.com  Wed Aug  8 17:07:57 2001
From: lee.reilly at ntlworld.com (Lee)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:07:57 +0100
Subject: generating SQL - problem
Message-ID: <3B71AA2D.E9D219B7@ntlworld.com>

I wonder if someone could offer me a little advice. I have a large
(155KB) text file holding MP3 data in the format:

Filename with path   ; Title    ; Artistd
d:\\SRS\\Breed.mp3      ; Breed         ; Snake River Conspiracy

I want to parse this file and create a single SQL insert statement, but
I am having a few problems. I have the following script, which works
fine (may not be pretty, but it works ;-)

#
,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

# | createMP3SQL.py
# |
# | import string
# |
# | fileobject=open('newdata.txt', 'r')  # open the playlist
# | line = fileobject.readline()          # read the first line
# |
# | FullSQL = ''  # the final query string
# | end = 'false' # test condition - true when end of file is reached
# | while (end!='true'):
# |   try:
# |     line = fileobject.readline()
# |     trackdata=string.split(line, ";")
# |     file=string.rstrip(trackdata[0])
# |     title=string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[1]))
# |     artist=string.lstrip(string.rstrip(trackdata[2]))
# |     SQL = 'insert into MP3s values (\'' + file + '\', \'' + title +
'\', \''
# |     + artist + '\')'
# |     FullSQL = FullSQL + SQL + ";"
# |   except Exception:
# |     end='true'
#
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

When I run this script is takes ~5 secs to process, and when I type in
'FullSQL' to display the text (the SQL string) in IDLE it halts
completely.  It works fine with smaller test data. I am using Python 2.0
on Win98. Can anyone suggest what the problem is and how it can be
remedied?

Thanks very much in advance,
Lee



From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Wed Aug  8 13:47:19 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:47:19 GMT
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.997287913.11388.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>       
 <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a>
 <mailman.997287913.11388.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081234090.1093-100000@cc489744-a>



On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>
>     Adam> Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links
>     Adam> to (or at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that
>     Adam> have a Python environment.
>
> Hmmm...  I didn't see anything like that in your first note.  Barry Warsaw

Yes, I was a jerk.  I shouldn't have done that, I'm sorry!

> is the python-mode for Emacs author/maintainer.  There is a page on the
> python.org website for Python & Emacs:
>
>     http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/

That site, as far as I can tell, doesn't have much info on the "big
picture".  But I got a reply from Alexandre Fayolle that filled me in, I
see why there is a whole section about the python-mode, but why is there
a section about other Emacs features?  That is a Python web-site,
promoting Emacs, which I don't mind much, but it is strange...

> It does have some links to Python support in other editors (Alpha and JED at
> least).  If you have a URL for vi+Python I'm sure Barry would be happy to
> add it to that page.  I suspect that eventually the site will get redone
> pretty completely using Zope, at which perhaps this section of the website
> will be generalized to something like "Text Editor Support for Python".

The "Text Editor Support for Python" idea sounds cool, I want anyone
that edits Python code to have a resource that will show if there is a
Python environment for their editor of choice.  As for the URL for
Vim+Python, What I was talking about is builtin if it is Python code.  I
am currently working on a Vim script that will do just as much as
Emacs's python mode, but where are the specs for it?  I can't parse
Emacs Lisp, and I don't use Emacs, so is there a URL for the specs?

Sorry, again!


-- 
     If the meanings of "true" and "false" were switched,
     then this sentence would not be false.
               -- Linux fortune database

    /||  Adam Seyfarth <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
   /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>   <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||?\
   \?||  <http://tuxaqfh.sf.net>        <http://tuxkart.sf.net>  ||?/
    \||  <http://vim.sf.net>           <http://www.majik3d.org>  ||/



From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Aug 20 15:51:03 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 19:51:03 GMT
Subject: problem opening a file on 2.2a1
References: <9lrkeo$9rlpa$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9o2qh7.3rd.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:23:32 -0400, Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> pisze:

> data = open('data.out','w')
> 
> works fine. But when I try it froma  script I get the error:

Do you 'from os import *'?
If so, don't.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug  8 09:32:37 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:32:37 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
In-Reply-To: <053801c1200d$e5b9b060$0300000a@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081731080.18926-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Steve Holden wrote:
> > > Sam Rushing's Medusa distribution does contain some information on
> it, but
> > > the real documentation is the comments in the code. Reading that
> should
> > > enable you to connect to a working Medusa server (and hence,
> presumaby, to a
> > > working Zope).
> >
> >    Do I understand it right that we are talking about Medusa monitor
> and
> > monitor client?
>
> Well, that's what *I* was talking about. I can't answer for you ... ;-)

   Aha, I see. Thank you :)

> Sam Rushing is a smart cookie.

   I know it for a long while!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From dennis at dennis-voss.de  Sun Aug  5 12:11:29 2001
From: dennis at dennis-voss.de (Dennis Voss)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:11:29 +0200
Subject: Number precision
References: <630035fe.0108030836.3a27647@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B6D7031.5060107@dennis-voss.de>

Buzz B. wrote:

>Excuse the rookie question:
>
>x=50
>x/100 results in 0 instead of .5
>
>Now I can do:
>y = float(x)/100  to get the correct answer
>
>Is there a way to predefine x as a floating?
>

The old thing.
You define x as an integer value. Your division is interpreted as
integer division, where 0 is the correct answer.

x = 50.0 defines x as a float.

Dennis



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Aug 28 06:57:35 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:57:35 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Python-2.1.1 and wxPython problem loading zlib
In-Reply-To: <88bc63c6.0108271020.67d99ce7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108282053400.76-100000@central>

On 27 Aug 2001, Doug Farrell wrote:

{...}

> However, when I try to run the main demo.py program I get
> the following messages:
>
> # python demo.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "demo.py", line 3, in ?
>     import Main
>   File "Main.py", line 19, in ?
>     import images
>   File "images.py", line 5, in ?
>     import cPickle, zlib
> ImportError: No module named zlib
>
> I just used pkg-get install zlib    to install zlib from
> www.sunfreeware.com, but that didn't solve the problem. Can someone
> tell me what I need to do to get the zlib module to load? Actually,
> any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

You need to build zlibmodule, now that you've installed zlib.  You should
be able to do this by re-running the setup.py script in your Python build
directory:

cd {...}/Python-2.1.1
python setup.py build
python setup.py install

If you haven't deleted your build directory, this should just build
zlibmodule.so, rather than all the dynamically loadable extensions.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Wed Aug  1 15:26:31 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 1 Aug 2001 19:26:31 GMT
Subject: grok.py (module I found)
References: <9k9ftb$hdk$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <9k9hum$qbc$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <9k9l57$9bi$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Andrew Dalke <dalke at acm.org> wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>>I've found this module somewhere linked from the Vaults of Parnassus,
>>but then my browser crashed and I can't find the link anymore. Did it
>>disappear from the vaults?

> Sorry about that.  There was some problems with the systems last
> night (related to python.org being down) and the code you sent around
> had some problems in it that exercised the system flaws.  Things
> should be cleared up by now.

[snip lots of useful advice to whomever originally wrote grok.py]

Okay, you used 'you' but I didn't write that module. It seems badly
written though obviously it's a nice idea to finally have 'grok'.
Perhaps you can send in some patches to the original author?

I don't know what's up with this PSU filtering thing, you'd think that


From brueckd at tbye.com  Wed Aug  1 21:55:35 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
In-Reply-To: <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108011831170.26415-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

On 1 Aug 2001, Donn Cave wrote:

> | Right. My assertion is that this causes more problems than it solves
> | because you seldom know your "intent" in that much detail, much less your
> | future intent. Seems like ultra strict type checking might work well in

> OK, another example, happy to be able to accommodate your request.
> >From today's comp.lang.python, someone asks, how come my program
> doesn't work?  His case seems a ways away from space station control.
>
...

> And the run time error is a TypeError: unsubscriptable object.
> He's baffled enough by this to post to comp.lang.python instead
> of figure it out himself.

[ snipped 10 lines of Python ]
[ snipped 30 - 40 lines of type-checking OCaml ]

> Hope you find this useful.

Very! Thank you. Here's what it shows me:

- A Python newbie like the original poster is going to get a heck of a lot
further than an OCaml newbie trying to accomplish the same thing in a
strict type-checking way (I wonder how many posts he would have sent to
c.l.ocaml?). A veteren Pythonista won't have too many chances for causing
that bug because the Python version will be so short and simple.

- The cost of finding the Python bug (type-related or not) is probably
quite lower than the cost of finding a bug in the same OCaml code. If
nothing there's 66 to 75% fewer lines of code to sift through so you'll
narrow the search a lot quicker (I realize you're new to OCaml, but the
poster is new to Python).

- If the function later needs to be modified to be more flexible with
different types or even just a little extra functionality, the Python one
is gonna be a breeze. I'd feel confident about a quick change followed by
some quick testing. I'd feel much more nervous about modifying the other
one.

- After a little experience using Python, the cost of finding that bug
will drop dramatically (how long would it take you, Donn, to figure it
out? 30 seconds maybe?) as will the likelihood of that bug occurring, but
the cost of creating the OCaml type-checking version will remain more or
less constant - you'll always have to write about that much code. So
you'll fight your way through the learning curve only to find that by
doing so what you learned just went down in value. ;-)

-Dave




From olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com  Tue Aug 14 20:08:52 2001
From: olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com (Olivier Scalbert)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:08:52 +0200
Subject: spawnv
Message-ID: <3B79BD94.4993F25B@algosyn.com>

Hi,

On my Linux box, the following code does not start /usr/bin/gears:

import os
print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ())

In fact it print 127 !

but the following code starts /usr/bin/gears :

import os
os.system("/usr/bin/gears")

Why ?

Thanks

Olivier



From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 12:47:34 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 16:47:34 GMT
Subject: (beginner) question on threads...
References: <Xns910EAD0A59682PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20> <mailman.999271788.3859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns910EBF7BBDCF8PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> said :

> I think you can just create a suitable subclass of
> SocketServer.TCPServer. In my XML-RPC server, I did:
> 
>     class GenericServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,
>     SocketServer.TCPServer): 
>         """generic XML-RPC server class"""
>         ...
> Each request to my server is handled in a separate thread.
 
By Jove, it works ! Python will never cease to amaze me...
I probably got more than I bargained for, though : now I need to understand 
_why_ it just works -- and probably have to delve into that "mixin" stuff I 
was saving for later too :-)

Thanks for the tip, Skip ! (hey, that sounds like an old Paul Simon song :)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Aug  7 19:36:28 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 02:36:28 +0300
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9kpeft$kbm$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <kuofprphmr.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <9kpeft$kbm$1 at slb4.atl.mindspring.net>, "Andrew Dalke"
<dalke at acm.org> writes:

[...]
| She chose Tcl (with an
| object extension) over Python because Python's ability to add
| new methods is not obvious[*] and because existing instances
| are not updated with the new class definitions

you can do this:

>>> class Spam:
...     def eat(self):
...         print 'yum'
... 
>>> spam = Spam()
>>> spam.eat()
yum
>>> 
>>> def new_eat(self):
...     print 'yech'
... 
>>> Spam.eat = new_eat
>>> 
>>> spam.eat()
yech

if you want it to attach the new method to the same class in face of
inheritance, you need "spam.eat.im_class.eat = new_eat" - you could
wrap it in a function if that look too much like a magic incanatation
for your audience.

if you actually want to replace the underlying classes of all
instances, you could probably cook something up with the weakref
module and calling a registration function in __init__...

  -- erno






From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 25 12:13:32 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 09:13:32 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
References: <mailman.998706141.30883.python-list@python.org> <toef3be6ln5ob8@news.supernews.com> <7xzo8ok752.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998746118.15977.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd75kp177.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
>     Paul> The idea is to run a command with a password on the command line,
>     Paul> and not have the password stay visible to "ps" through the whole
>     Paul> time the process is running.
> 
> I trust everyone recognizes the race condition here.  Passwords shouldn't be
> on command lines if they are sensitive.

1) Maybe so, but it's better to have them visible to ps for a fraction
of a second than for the whole time that a process is running (which
might be "forever" in the case of a server).

2) It's also possible (especially in the case of a server) that no one
else is logged on at the time that the process starts, in which case
it's perfectly safe to have the password on the command line for that
moment.


From whats_really_hot at hotmail.com  Sat Aug  4 17:03:47 2001
From: whats_really_hot at hotmail.com (whats_really_hot)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:03:47 +0300
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
References: <mailman.996953108.7259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9khs4l$4iv$1@usenet.otenet.gr>

thanks for ur time and ur precious answers.
but, __name__ why doesn't take the __main__ value when we write code in the
interpreter? besides that, this is the name of the current module.(?)




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Thu Aug  2 12:27:47 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:27:47 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:06:16 +0200."
             <9kb8mq02bd2@enews1.newsguy.com> 
Message-ID: <m15SLK7-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Christian Tanzer" <tanzer at swing.co.at> wrote in message
> news:mailman.996682083.19421.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> """
> > Back to Python -- programming in Python has always felt to
> > me a *LOT* like generic programming
> 
> Yup. Only, in Python it's very implicit.
> """
> ...just about as in C++, except more so:-).
> 
> 
> """
> The nice thing about Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
> on the generic parameters are spellt out explicitly. For most
> """
> The problem with Ada and Eiffel generics is that the requirements
> on the generic parameters are to be spelled out explicitly.

The explicit spelling of the requirements has two consequences:

- It improves type checking. I agree that this doesn't cover a whole
  lot of ground (although Eiffel does a better job here than any other
  language, IMHO).

  I used to care a lot about static type checking but don't see this
  as a big issue anymore. 

- It improves reusability. In C++ or Python, you have to look at the
  source code of the generic component to know what the requirements
  are. In Ada or Eiffel, a look at the interface suffices. This is a
  big advantage over the implicit requirements.

  In Python that isn't so bad, because most often you can try it out
  in the interpreter just as fast as looking up the interface. In C++,
  trying it out and having the compiler barf out less than enlightened
  error messages is a royal pain.

Anyway, I'd love to have a type inference engine for Python code.

> But C++'s generics are an excellent example of the way lack of
> type-constraint declaration in no way inhibits type-based optimization
> -- given signature based polymorphism, type-inference in any actual
> instantiation of a generic IS pretty trivial:-).

C++ is very weak in optimizing template instantiations when compared
to Ada. That's probably not a feature of the language but a
shortcoming of the implementations. OTOH, after ten years templates
should be really trivial for the C++ compiler implementers. When I
looked last time (1998), the compilers were still pretty brain dead in
that regard, though.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From hove at phys.ntnu.no  Wed Aug  8 02:58:16 2001
From: hove at phys.ntnu.no (Joakim Hove)
Date: 08 Aug 2001 08:58:16 +0200
Subject: Checking for attribute in the current module with getattr( )
References: <k0nvgjzhetl.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <k0npua7ghrr.fsf@metropolis.phys.ntnu.no>

Hi Lyle, Just and Alex,

thanks for the suggestions, it works like a champ now.



Best regards - Joakim

-- 
==== Joakim Hove      www.phys.ntnu.no/~hove/   =======================
|| Institutt for fysikk  (735) 93637 / E3-166  |  Sk?yensgate 10D    ||
|| N - 7491 Trondheim    hove at phys.ntnu.no     |  N - 7030 Trondheim ||
================================================= 73 93 31 68 =========


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 16:20:08 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:20:08 +0200
Subject: Question about Tkinter
References: <9l03s7$6q9f0$1@ID-54723.news.dfncis.de> <9l07a201rdj@enews4.newsguy.com> <slrn9n842d.gjo.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <9l1fnr01f4d@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9n842d.gjo.grante at grante.comtrol.com...
    ...
> > Use different callables for the callbacks -- if it must be
    ...
> A slightly different way is to use lamgda.  It's best for
> simple cases where you just want to pass a few arguments that

I disagree with your claim that it's best.

>     15                 b.bind("<Button-1>",lambda event,xx=x,yy=y:
board.toggleSpace(xx,yy))

I'd code this (assuming no nested scope, just as you're assuming):
                            def togglethis(event, xx=x,yy=y):
board.toggleSpace(xx,yy)
                            b.bind("<Button-1>", togglethis)

> Line 15 is where the interesting bit happens.

We do agree on this.  But the lambda is obscuring it a bit:-).

> called.  That function receives one parameter called "event"
> from Tk, and has two default parameters "xx" and "yy" whose
> default values are set when the binding is done.  Since Tk only
> passes the single "event" parameter, "xx" and "yy" will have
> the values specified by "x" and "y" when the lambda operation
> took place.

Same for my favourite solution, except that there is no lambda
form -- the local def takes lambda's place.

> Curry is probably a more readable solution to a non-Schemer.  ;)

I am or used to be enough of a schemer that our common-lisp
friend recently caught me out as an adorer of tail recursion, but
I still dislike _Python's_ lambda, with all of its limits and issues.

A local def appears to me to be a preferable solution in just
about every case.  Giving the callable a somewhat helpful name
is not a big problem, and generally the splitting of a statement
into two that the def forces you to do is no big issue either.

The def lends itself to easier refactoring if you ever need more
than an expression there (again not an earth-shaking issue,
but more important to me than the above ones).


Alex





From James_Althoff at i2.com  Mon Aug  6 20:44:12 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:44:12 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
Message-ID: <OF10A9A595.81F5D108-ON88256AA1.000304DD@i2.com>


I've been playing around with the new type/class stuff and (so far) think
it is great!  In particular the classmethod and staticmethod mechanisms
seem to work very nicely.  It looks to me like I can use the classmethod
mechanism to do all the same kinds of things that I used to do with
metaclass methods in Smalltalk!  :-)

(Subclassing of builtin types seems to work nicely, too!)

One question: since class methods have a class object as the designated
first argument, should there be a convention for naming this argument
(similar to using "self" as the convention for standard instance methods)
to enhance readability?  Perhaps "myclass" or "selfclass" or something
similar?  Any thoughts?

Great job!!!

Jim


>>>>>>>>>>>>
Guido wrote:
When I released Python 2.2a1, the type/class unification feature was
announced as TENTATIVE.  It's been a while now (feels like a year,
although I realize it's only been 10 days :), and I would like to see
some feedback on this.

If there's anyone who believes the type/class unification should not
become a feature in Python 2.2, please speak up now or forever hold
your peace...  (But I'd rather you speak up!)

Note that if you have concerns about backwards incompatibilities, the
best thing you can do is point them out ASAP.  I want to ensure that
2.2 (final) is as compatible with 2.1 as possible, while still
providing the new exciting features that type/class unification makes
possible.

I realize the PEPs aren't done yet, but I believe that the separate
introduction I wrote goes a long way towards explaining type/class
unification.  Read it here:

  http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.  Just DON'T CHANGE THE THREAD
TOPIC.  I don't have time to read the entire newsgroup (I tried this
week, and I didn't get to anything else :).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From tim at vegeta.ath.cx  Thu Aug 30 05:36:55 2001
From: tim at vegeta.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:36:55 GMT
Subject: Adding print-style function calls, and preproc plugins
References: <3b8dc97b.60293093@news.isar.de>
Message-ID: <slrn9os305.3el.tim@vegeta.ath.cx>

Me parece que Gerson Kurz <gerson.kurz at t-online.de> dijo:
> 1) normally, you call functions in python like this:
> 
> name '(' arg { ',' arg } ')'
> 
> however, 'print' is a special function in that its arguments can be
> written without enclosing brackets. Wouldn't it be nice if you *could*
> call your "normal" functions in the same way? Would that require too
> much of a change to the python language?

It diverges too far from what I would like Python to be. (Are you
reading, Guido?)  I can take advantage of what you describe in Perl, but
Python's precision is part of the romance. <g>

> There might be a slight ambiguity when function names are used without
> arguments, because it then could be interpreted as either the function
> object or the function call; but then again, I see writing the
> function name as object without assigning it to some variable or some
> such as rather pointless. 

There would be ambiguity, which would require a lot more work on the
compiler's part, and a lot more thought on the programmer's part to
remember all the rules.  I've wanted to write Python funcs that work
like statements (as you describe), but I soon saw that leads down the
slippery slope toward _other_ languages.  Adding parens is a small price
to pay, IMO.

> IIRC VB (yuk!) can do something similar. But then, VB is possibly the
> *worst* kind of advocacy possible.

Yes. VB functions (that return a value) _do_ require parens around the
arguments. VB subs (that *don't* return a value) do _not_ require parens.
OTOH, in this case, the parse just assumes everything from the sub name
to EOL are arguments. Very little ambiguity.

HTH

-- 
You're quite free to convert your strings to byte arrays and do the
entire pattern tree by hand in pure logic code if you'd like. By the
time you finish most of the rest of us will be doing contract work on
Mars.
    -- Zenin, comp.lang.perl.misc


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 11:43:02 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:43:02 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <cpg0bdzjj4.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <j4wv4pb9jt.fsf@artagnan.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <cp1ymxyow5.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <2087471.WsSYbrMLUf@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> schrub:

> [...] We could easily have a shortcut that creates a pair of accessor
> functions to map a public attribute name to a private attribute, but
> what good would it do us?  You only need to use accessor functions
> when you want additional functionality.  

Yes, and in some cases, I only want to add functionality to one of the 
accessor functions.

Imagine that you want to increase a read counter when getting an 
attribute, i. E. when you try to implement some LRU caching

Or one would want to restrict access to an object, or do some 
calculations every get.

Another case would be performing checks or calculations needed when 
setting an attribute, but reading is just "straight forward".

In those cases, you could use the shortcut for the other accessor 
function to create it implicitly.

Another idea may be to provide both standard accessor functions so that 
subclasses may easily override one or the other.

markus
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Fri Aug 17 18:39:27 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:39:27 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
In-Reply-To: <m8uqnt0m0qvmgrbs4od5v6o4hnrvi1mjgf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108171523350.7463-100000@bms>


On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Courageous wrote:
<...re: reserving keywords...>
> >It may reduce "__future__ kludges", but __future__ can do more than
> >just tie up keywords...  I don't thing many uses of __future__ would
> >be avoided.  In a sense, it would be like trading a working time
> >machine for prescient visions.
>
> You're of course correct, but suppose that the new division semantics
> were to be implemented on the keyword "div" and that keyword had been
> reserved? I personally continue to believe (STRONGLY!) that new division
> semantics should be introduced in this way, in particular because of
> synergy with the current divmod() function.This would make it so that those
> who want even integer division semantics could get what they want while
> at the same time ensuring that all old code continues to work as it used to.

I don't disagree with you, and have given a knee-jerk like
reaction to what appears to be a series of kludges.

How about a well defined infrastructure for upgrades,
incorporating: __future__, __past__, and warnings (reserved
keywords?).

e.g., It looks like this...

version
   +0.0    +0.1    +0.2    +0.3    +0.4
   --+-------+-------+-------+-------+--
     |       |       |       |       |
     |  (1)  |  (2)  |  (3)  |  (4)  |  (5)
     |       |       |       |       |warnings disappear
     |       |       |       |
     |       |       |       |past disappears
     |       |       |
     |       |       |new feature is the default
     |       |       |future disappears
     |       |       |a past is enabled
     |       |       |warnings change
     |       |
     |       |warnings enabled
     |
     |future enabled

(1) early testing
(2) it's gonna happen
(3) can `quick fix' any bugs
(4) no more quick fix, but better than `no clue'
(5) just like the feature always existed

...is a reasonable representation of what an upgrade looks like
(well, if it had a better generalization of the scale).

Perhaps a new feature proposal should include a timeline, code common
to all/most feature upgrades can be factored out and presented as part
of the API... the dream target could be a codified timeline that gets
turned into the appropriate Python command line options, warning
messages, __magic__ stuff, ...


- Bruce





From James_Althoff at i2.com  Fri Aug 31 19:45:51 2001
From: James_Althoff at i2.com (James_Althoff at i2.com)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:45:51 -0700
Subject: how to distinguish a python expression from a statement?
Message-ID: <OFCE6FC80B.C1D41F84-ON88256AB9.007FEDB5@i2.com>

I have a string, inputText, which is a fragment of python code plucked from
a text control in a GUI.  If the value of inputText  is an expression then
I will do "result = eval(inputText,globalsDict,localsDict)" and show result
in the GUI.  If it is a statement, I will do "exec inputText in
globalsDict, localsDict" (and I know about redirecting sys.stdout while
doing either).

I have all of this working except that I don't know how to distinguish
between expressions and statements (without making the end user push one of
two different buttons in order to tell me -- yuk).  I am using Jython and
so the parser module is not available (so I can't use parser.isexpr).

Is there any means to accomplish this what-I-had-thought-would-be-routine
task short of writing a Python parser?

The big picture:
o get a string
o "exec/eval" it
o if the string represents an expression, display the result -- since
statements have no results in Python this only makes sense for expressions
i.e., I am trying to mimick the Python interpreter in a GUI.

(Someone, please rescue me :-)

Thanks,

Jim




From Brian.Eoff at trw.com  Wed Aug  1 10:49:26 2001
From: Brian.Eoff at trw.com (Brian Eoff)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:49:26 -0500
Subject: Commands Exception Handling
Message-ID: <3B6816F6.41DF8A44@trw.com>

When using the commands.getstatusoutput(......) what should the except
be? Would OSError work, or should I use IOError because I am trying to
manipulate files on a UNIX system?

Any help would be appreciated.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Aug 22 08:18:56 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:18:56 -0500
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
In-Reply-To: <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com>
        <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
        <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
        <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com>
        <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15235.41777.26083.273524@beluga.mojam.com>

    Paul> I just tried your example in Python 2.1.1, Linux, P3-750, lots of
    Paul> ram, but with a 100 element list instead of 3 elements.

    Paul>         a = map(lambda x: x+1.0, range(100))

    Paul> Results (running each method 10,000 times like in your example):

    Paul>         map(lambda x: 4.0*x, a)       1.97 seconds
    Paul>         [4.0*x for x in a]            3.57 seconds

    Paul> I don't know why the list comprehension is slower than the
    Paul> map/lambda for this larger list.

A peek at the bytecode might help.  Here's the bytecode for calling map:

     0 LOAD_GLOBAL         0 (map)
     3 LOAD_CONST          1 (<code object <lambda> at 0x8281890, file "<stdin>", line 2>)
     6 MAKE_FUNCTION       0
     9 LOAD_FAST           0 (a)
    12 CALL_FUNCTION       2

and the bytecode for the lambda:

     0 LOAD_CONST          1 (4.0)
     3 LOAD_FAST           0 (x)
     6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
     7 RETURN_VALUE   

Here's the list comprehension bytecode:

     0 BUILD_LIST          0
     3 DUP_TOP        
     4 LOAD_ATTR           0 (append)
     7 STORE_FAST          2 (_[1])
    10 LOAD_FAST           0 (a)
    13 LOAD_CONST          1 (0)
    16 FOR_LOOP           20 (to 39)
    19 STORE_FAST          1 (x)
    22 LOAD_FAST           2 (_[1])
    25 LOAD_CONST          2 (4.0)
    28 LOAD_FAST           1 (x)
    31 BINARY_MULTIPLY
    32 CALL_FUNCTION       1
    35 POP_TOP        
    36 JUMP_ABSOLUTE      16
    39 DELETE_FAST         2 (_[1])

I think the map/lambda version has a relatively high cost to crank up (make
the lambda, call map), while the list comprehension version has a lower
startup cost, but a higher per-iteration cost.

Also, note that the performance of the list comprehension version will be
hurt more than the map/lambda version if you ran your code at a module scope
(the dis output above was from code inside functions).  All the LOAD_FAST
and STORE_FAST instructions (both array indexing operations with no function
call) inside the for loop would become LOAD_GLOBAL and STORE_GLOBAL
instructions (both call PyDict_* functions).  The map/lambda case doesn't
suffer from this problem.  Using this code:

    import time

    a = map(lambda x: x+1.0, range(100))

    t = time.clock()
    for i in range(10000):
        x = map(lambda x: 4.0*x, a)
    print "map/lambda:", round(time.clock()-t, 2)

    t = time.clock()
    for i in range(10000):
        x = [4.0*x for x in a]
    print "list comprehension:", round(time.clock()-t, 2)

    def f(a):
        t = time.clock()
        for i in range(10000):
            x = map(lambda x: 4.0*x, a)
        print "map/lambda (func):", round(time.clock()-t, 2)

    f(a)

    def f(a):
        t = time.clock()
        for i in range(10000):
            x = [4.0*x for x in a]
        print "list comprehension (func):", round(time.clock()-t, 2)

    f(a)

I got this output:

    % python lcvsmap.py 
    map/lambda: 2.88
    list comprehension: 5.17
    map/lambda (func): 2.94
    list comprehension (func): 4.18

which suggests to me that you didn't put your tests in functions.  Alex may
have.  ;-)

bake-offs-always-need-recipes-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 04:59:39 2001
From: henrik_ekelund at yahoo.com (Henrik Ekelund)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 01:59:39 -0700
Subject: Experiences converting Python to C++
References: <f583a35.0108170452.1b3eca85@posting.google.com> <82399a9.0108190144.cffeff7@posting.google.com> <fogvntkmm6cbietb3sllp1phmkc12dnmqo@4ax.com> <9lp2fr1u6e@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <f583a35.0108200059.40d7a1c@posting.google.com>

Thanks everybody! Especially Alex Martelli, we will definitely use
your ideas.

For those curious about the question Why: Because the customer says
so. And the customer is always right. It all is a part of their
IT-strategy: only use established techniques, and make sure than the
programming language is in widespread use. They are worried that it
may be difficult to hire programmers that know Python. And I have
failed too convince them otherwise. It did not matter that I explained
to them that it takes about two days for a C++ or Java programmer to
learn Python, that I explained that Python is probably the most
growing language in the world, that I explained that the maintenance
of the system would be more expensive, or anything else. I made an
eight pages long document explaining to them that I really did not
think it was a good idea. Still the customer is always right ...


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 11:29:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:29:26 +0200
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com> <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l40tk01pfn@enews4.newsguy.com> <MB4yXKAheld7EwsX@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9l5ql10sbt@enews4.newsguy.com> <6Def3XA5vnd7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9l6jts0tb3@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6Def3XA5vnd7Ewrz at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    ...
> >The special module name 'half-breaks' circularity, just enough to
> >let you run unit tests decently.
>
> well if the name were kept the same and my special magic __main__
> variable worked that wouldn't be required, so we would have clarity and
> functionality.

Nope.  If, say, a is "being imported" (sys.modules['a'] is defined),
then an import a becomes a no-op (except for binding local name a
to sys.modules['a']).  So if a imports b and vice versa, b cannot
yet use anything from a -- the body of a need not have finished
executing, so def and class statements may not have run.  But if
a is running as main, then b's "import a" is NOT a no-operation --
because there's a sys.modules['__main__'] but NOT yet a
sys.modules['a'] -- so b CAN use a's stuff after import a IF
b has been imported from the main module.  Clearer now?

> However, I feel that the real underlying problem is that
> it is possible for the same module level code to have two different
> module names and that this is the real ambiguity.

Anybody who wants to do circular imports must be prepared to
deal with such trifles -- it's really a tiny part of the complexity
he's setting himself up for when doing circular imports.  Having
a given module-level code TWICE is a MUST to enable unit-tests
in the presence of circularity; if not for the main script (doing the
unit-tests) being under a different name, you'd have to explicitly
copy the source file -- so you'd have the same module level code
again under two names, but with a LOT of work to accomplish it.
Python saves you that work, even if you're so misguided as to
design with circular imports (it can't save you from OTHER sides
of the complexity you set up for yourself, of course).

> There's probably some reason for allowing A.B and B to have the same
> module source and be different modules, but I don't know what it is. The

I've been trying to explain it for the last zillion posts in this
thread, and I get the strong impression that I'm not getting
through, so maybe you STILL don't know it despite by best
efforts -- so, I give up.

There are other potential motivations, such as letting a module x
import __main__ in order for x to be importable from different
scripts with different/overridden behavior, but I wouldn't call
that a good design practice (though as a q&d hack it may well
be useful once in a blue moon).

> same is true for the __main__ module it's probably too difficult to work
> out what the true module name should be.

??? what do you mean by "too difficult"?  The Python interpreter
knows the filename it's loading, except when running from standard
input of course.


Alex





From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug 16 04:16:33 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:16:33 +0200
Subject: Check URL --> Simply? (fwd)
References: <mailman.997923024.24854.python-list@python.org> <tnmkhd51goof0b@xo.supernews.co.uk> <eppstein-D1ABF4.22032515082001@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <1521716.RbkFSEjSb9@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> schrub:

>> > Ever more opportunity at shameless self-promotion.  This zillion
>> > special cases of 404-ish pages is something I use as an example in
>> > my forthcoming book _Text Processing in Python_ (a few more months
>> > until
>> > done).  Here's the code I present as an attempt at recognizing what
>> > only humans can:
> 
> Humans can't usually see the http response line with the actual 404
> number in it in place of the 200 indicating an ok page, but machines
> can -- why don't you use that?

Of course, one has to look for 30X (redirects) and other 40X as well :-)

-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug  6 14:33:51 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:33:51 GMT
Subject: PEP 238 (revised)
References: <mailman.997076529.8631.python-list@python.org> <3b6e5449.106280373@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <3b6ee1e8.142535755@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:42:24 GMT, bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:41:15 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>>[Bengt Richter]
>>> UIAM, the way I read it, the only way you can get -0 from multiply
>>> is as a result of extreme underflow denormalizing to zero. Others
>>> give plain zero.  Of course, my intel pentium book is not the official
>>> ieee754 spec.
>>
>>I can't guess what you're reading.  Here from the FMUL docs, in the IA-32
>>Intel Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume 2: Instruction Set
>>Reference, available at, e.g.,
>>
>Sorry about the guesswork, specifics below ;-)
>
>>http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/manuals/245471.htm
>>
>>The last (byte-serving) link will get you to it quickly w/o enduring a 6.7MB
>>download of the whole thing:
>>
>>    The sign of the result is always the exclusive-OR of the source
>>    signs, even if one or more of the values being multiplied is 0 or
>>    [a graphic for infinity].
>>
>>Same as the 754 rules.
>>
>
>I was looking at (hardcopy)
>"Pentium Processor Family Developer's Manual
>Volume 3: Achitecture and Programming Manual
>1995"
>
>On page 7-11, "Table 7-8. Zero Operands and Results (Contd.)"
> +------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
> | Operation        |       Operands      |     Result            |
> +------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
  | Multiplication   | ?0 x ?0             | 0                     | Left out the op ;-/
> |                  | ?0 x ?0             | 0                     |
> |                  | ?0 x ?X, ?X x ?0    | 0                     |
> |                  | +X x +Y, -X x -Y    | +0[1]                 |
> |                  | +X x -Y, -X x +Y    | -0[1]                 |
> +------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
>...
>[1] When extreme underflow denormalizes the result to zero
>
>I read the unadorned zeroes under results to mean the all-bits-zero
>representing zero (which is also a positive zero).
>
>(I hope '?' came through above, it's the symbol plus/minus, or
>'+' over '-' in the same character symbol).
>
>The instruction description for FMUL/FMULP/FIMUL on page 25-118
>does not help resolve what "0" above means. It does not mention
>the XOR sign rule.
>
>I did follow with a second post containing
>
>"My intel pentium book is plainly wrong, ignore previous doubt about *1.0 ;-)
> >>> math.atan2( 0.0,-0.0*1.0)
> 3.1415926535897931
> >>> math.atan2( 0.0, 0.0*1.0)
> 0.0"
>
>Since plainly there is a different effect for -0.0*1.0 and 0.0*1.0,
>both of which would seem to be covered by the second line in the table,
>unless Python is interfering, which I wouldn't think.
>
>It does that with python 1.5.2 on a '95-vintage P90 as well as on a more
>recent 300mhzPII with python 2.1, so I'd say the book is unclear at best ;-/
>
>Thanks for the intel URL. Hard copy can't compete up-to-datedness-wise.
>Although I my browser/acrobat combo just wants to download the whole thing.
>How do you get around that again?



From grante at visi.com  Thu Aug 16 16:02:56 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:02:56 GMT
Subject: Sketch build/install problem
References: <slrn9no539.3lu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <6qr8ub4x2g.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <slrn9no9qp.3vt.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <6qr8ub4x2g.fsf at abnoba.intevation.de>, Bernhard Herzog wrote:

> Well, today (16th) at least the mailing list worked.

Hmm, I still haven't seen anything.  I'll keep an eye on it for
a few days and then try unsubscribing/resubscribing.

>> I just upgraded sketch to 1.6.12 (1.6.8 had been working but I
> 
> I think you mean 0.6.x, unless you've borrowed Guido's time machine :)

Ah, yes.

> Here's a patch:

[...]

That fixed it.  Now it doesn't run because libtk.so doesn't
match tk.h.  I've got tk installed in so many places/versions
it's a wonder anything works.  I installed RedHat's Source
Navigator in January and it caused major breakage -- and I
think this is just another result of that.  :(

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  NOW do I get to blow
                                  at               out the CANLDES??
                               visi.com            


From dlewbluefish at netscape.net  Mon Aug  6 16:42:08 2001
From: dlewbluefish at netscape.net (dl)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 13:42:08 -0700
Subject: How to upgrade python 2.0.1
Message-ID: <961bb94c.0108061242.1f6e6c7@posting.google.com>

To all,

I just installed the Python 2.0. I did the following

tar Ixvf Python-2.0.tar.bz2
./configure
make
 make install

Now,the question is  how do I  upgrade to Python-2.0.1? (I downloaded
the thePython-2.0.1.tgz file),I am not sure is there any difference
between the tar.gz and tgz files,and how to do with tgz file, I am
trying to using 4Suite  and PyXML with that Python.
Please any help? should I  use the Python2.1 or...?  thank you  in
advance..

D


From nospam at bigfoot.com  Tue Aug 28 06:27:12 2001
From: nospam at bigfoot.com (Gillou)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:27:12 +0200
Subject: problem with pythonwin32
References: <9mc3m3$jk3$1@plutonium.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9mfrbg$vsf$1@norfair.nerim.net>

For Linux...

"chmod +x myscript.py" is better ;-)

The first line of the script should be

#!/usr/bin/env python

This first line does not help but does not disturb for Windows (except if
you got Cygwin)

"Paul Greer" <Paul.Greer1 at btinternet.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
9mc3m3$jk3$1 at plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Might sound like a silly question but how do I get a script to run as a
> program from an Icon on windows. When ever I do the DOS box opens and
> immediately closes.
>
> the same in linux I change the py file with chmod -x  and set the path but
i
> cant seem to get the program to run by just typing the name?
>
> Id appreciate the help
>
>




From sanner at scripps.edu  Wed Aug 29 21:45:00 2001
From: sanner at scripps.edu (Michel Sanner)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:45:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiple screens and Tkinter/Togl
Message-ID: <200108300145.SAA213366@goliath.scripps.edu>

Hello,

I have 2 screens on my unix box and I can use the screenName argument to get a 
Tkinter.Tk instance to appear on either screen. But when I try to create an togl 
Widget I get an Xserver error that kills my python interpreter. Here is the code 
creating the problem


import Tkinter
r1 = Tkinter.Tk(screenName=":0.0")
r1.tk.call('package', 'require', 'Togl')
r2 = Tkinter.Tk(screenName=":0.1")
r2.tk.call('package', 'require', 'Togl')
f1 = Tkinter.Frame(r1)
f2 = Tkinter.Frame(r2)
f1.pack()
f2.pack()

class OGL(Tkinter.Widget):
    def __init__(self, master, ident):
        cnf = ()
        kw = {'double':1} #, 'depth':1, 'accum':1, 'ident':ident}
        Tkinter.Widget.__init__(self, master, 'togl', cnf, kw )

o1 = OGL(f1, '1')
o2 = OGL(f2, '2')

X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
  Major opcode of failed request:  1 (X_CreateWindow)
  Serial number of failed request:  149
  Current serial number in output stream:  151


My 2 screens have different resolution and depth but it does not seem to be a 
problem for regulat Tk widgets.

I am also wondering if the fact the screenName is an argument to Tk means that a 
Tkinter application cannot have windows on 2 screens at the same time (unless 
they do not share the same interpreter).

Any Ideas or comments would be very welcome

-Michel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>> AREA CODE CHANGE <<<<<<<<< we are now 858 !!!!!!!

Michel F. Sanner Ph.D.                   The Scripps Research Institute
Assistant Professor			Department of Molecular Biology
					  10550 North Torrey Pines Road
Tel. (858) 784-2341				     La Jolla, CA 92037
Fax. (858) 784-2860
sanner at scripps.edu                        http://www.scripps.edu/sanner
-----------------------------------------------------------------------





From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Fri Aug 24 16:13:46 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:13:46 -0400
Subject: [ANN] SkunkWeb 3.0 Released!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242042450.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>; from phd@phd.pp.ru on Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 08:46:22PM +0400
References: <20010824122940.I930@naxos.starmedia.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108242042450.25337-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010824161346.J930@naxos.starmedia.net>

On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 08:46:22PM +0400, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Drew Csillag wrote:
> > > > You don't trust the people who build the website for your company?
> > >
> > >    Certainly NO! Let us see.
> > >
> > > 1. Some people do malicious things intentionally.
> >
> > If they work for you, they should be fired, and quickly.
> 
>    We do it, from time to time. But first you need to catch them by hand.

Well, if that is your situation, then you may want to put bars around their
cubicles as a precautionary measure :).

> > Trying to make something foolproof is an exercise in futitlity as
> > fools are incredibly ingenious.
> 
>    ROFL :)))
>    Too true, too true...
> 
> > One could argue that Zope's web based content management system offers
> > more holes for the outside cracker to exploit though.
> 
>    I have never heared about cracked Zope site.

Well, there was at least one this year (not a cracked site but a
vulnerability):
    http://lwn.net/2001/0315/a/zope-zclasses.php3

Even if there were no vulnerabilities, there's something about having
a web based content management system on the open net that just gives
me the heebie-jeebies.

> > > 4. And there are different types of sites and users. Think about Geocite.
> > > Do you trust its users? :)
> >
> > Of course not.  SkunkWeb was not designed for, nor is it appropriate for
> > hosting in that way.
> 
>    That's the point!

Ahhh, no.  Hosting your own content is what most people deal with I
believe, not hosting other people's content, otherwise most of the app
servers on the market wouldn't exist because they have a similar trust
model as SkunkWeb, e.g. PHP, ASP, JSP, StoryServer, PSP all effectively
trust the template authors.

After I thought about it a bit, you could host something like Geocities
with SkunkWeb very easily by turning off component evaluation on user
directories.

> > >    No. Without a class it is not programming at all.
> >
> > Ahem...  You are saying that without classes, you aren't programming?
> > So this whole Linux kernel is not *real* programming?  I respectfully
> > and emphatically disagree.
> 
>    I meant "object publishing"... but let us forget it now.

Ahh, ok.  Got it.

> > I guess the main crux of this discussion is:
> >
> >    SkunkWeb is best oriented towards sites where the site authors can
> > be trusted not to maliciously mess things up (e.g. where the site
> > authors work for the company that runs the site).  Contrapositively,
> > SkunkWeb is not suited to the environment where the site authors may
> > be hostile.
> 
>    Well said!

>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.

Should insert BASIC before "Programmers" :).

BTW: on a totally side thing: can Zope do virtual hosting?

Drew
-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wednes','Thurs','Fri','Satur'
][(lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(
m,d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From grante at visi.com  Wed Aug 29 17:10:19 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:10:19 GMT
Subject: How to write string (float) to file?
References: <9mfm1l$gs3$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <9mfqmi$ko4$1@thorium.cix.co.uk> <9ZOi7.53225$c8.23251519@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9ops86.ks3.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <bo8j7.54122$c8.24122471@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <slrn9oq5eu.leu.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <G89j7.54140$c8.24141594@news1.denver1.co.home.com> <1Vbj7.71653$54.3810366@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9oqmm9.m56.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <1Vbj7.71653$54.3810366 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, Steve Holden wrote:

> "Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
> news:G89j7.54140$c8.24141594 at news1.denver1.co.home.com...
> [ ... ]
>>
>> > >>>> foo(10000000000000000000000000000000000000000l, 2)
>> > > '5000000000000000200000000000000000000000.00'
>>                      ^
>>
>> Not just incorrect, but the incorrect digit is right in the middle of the
>> number, not in the least significant place.
>
> Well by my count it occurs in the seventeenth decimal place,
> which given the precision on floats is about what you ought to
> expect. Clearly if you need to deal with numbers of arbitrary
> precision you are going to *have* to represent them as longs
> and keep a scaling factor (or use some other similar
> technique).
> 
> However, I would say that for most normal accounting purposes
> (i.e. numbers up to the tens of millions, significant to 2 DP,
> or ten significant figures) floating point numbers will be
> perfectly satisfactory *provided roundoff error is controlled
> at each step*. [This will also be good enough for the OMB,
> since they seem to round everything to the nearest million
> anyway :-)]

For accounting stuff I think you'd be far better off using
integer math in cents or mils or something like that.  Or
find/write a BCD floating point package.

But, I am not an accountant, and my head almost exploded the
time somebody explained what "good will" meant...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My mind is making
                                  at               ashtrays in Dayton....
                               visi.com            


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug  8 06:03:10 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:03:10 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Remote Access Python Interpreter using Telnet
In-Reply-To: <3B701F24.D90B0627@q-survey.be>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081402230.18926-100000@phd.fep.ru>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Laurent Szyster wrote:
> > > http://www.geocities.com/chrisliechti/en/python/index.html
> > >
> >    It could be used, I suppose, to debug long-running applications,
> > daemons... Zope, for example.
>
> Zope is built on Medusa (http://www.nightmare.com/medusa) and that one
> came with an RPC interface for that kind of access. It's used to debug
> Medusa servers and should work as-is for a Zope server.

   I heard about it, but never saw anyone used it. Any HOWTO on this?

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From tjreedy at home.com  Wed Aug 22 20:58:42 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:58:42 GMT
Subject: Really stupid question regarding PEP 252 and type/class unification
References: <8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6zYg7.126468$EP6.34956895@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Russell Turpin" <russell_turpin at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a12e538.0108221144.5b74df26 at posting.google.com...
> Let me begin with a caveat: I am zonked out on cold drugs.
> My reading of the PEP, and writing of this post, might
> suffer because of this. Throwing caution to the wind,
> here's my stupid question: What is the name (if any) of a
> type's (now class's) value attribute?

1. Types are still types and not classes.

2. Think of an object's value as its (unnamed) default attribute.  IE,
its the value you get if you do not specify a named attribute.  Note
that this is just as true of classes and instances.

def c(): pass
i = c()
print c,i

The value of c and i are the class and instance object, or, if you
will, the set of attributes, rather than any one in particular.

> Let me explain.
> Suppose I create an integer:
>     spam = 3
> The variable "spam" is an Integer, "Integer" is now a class
(unification, right?),

again, wrong.

> so there should be *some* attribute
> of the class Integer, lets call it __myval__, such that:
>
>     spam.__myval__ == 3
> And, in fact, writing "spam" in most assignments and tests
> should just be a shorthand for "spam.__myval__". Further,
> "__myval__" should be in Integer.__dict__, so that
> introspection works with it as with other attributes.

3. Object.__dict__ is a named attribute of Object that does *not*
appear in Object.__dict__.  c.__bases__ and i.__class__ also do not
appear in their __dicts__

> Does this make any sense? Or should I swear off cold meds
> when posting to comp.lang.python?

This pep and the next can make one's head spin even without cold meds.

Terry J. Reedy





From stadt at cs.utwente.nl  Sun Aug 19 16:11:16 2001
From: stadt at cs.utwente.nl (Richard van de Stadt)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:11:16 +0200
Subject: SMTP
References: <mailman.997956746.8212.python-list@python.org> <3B7BF923.B8E03349@scripps.edu> <3B7C7660.FFF77A13@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3B801D64.987C4C88@cs.utwente.nl>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Sophie Coon wrote:
> >
> > That is how I do it :
> > subject  = "My subject"
> > body = "My message"
> > msg = "Subject:"+subject+"\n"+body
> > server = smtplib.SMTP('localhost')
> > server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
> > server.quit()
> 
> You likely need an additional "\n" between the last
> header line and the first line of the body.
> 
> --
> ----------------------
> Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
> peter at engcorp.com

This works for most systems, but not for e.g.

bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk

-----
> From: MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxxxxx
>
> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at xxxxxxxxx
> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
> bells.cs.ucl.ac.uk failed after I sent the message.
> Remote host said: 554 No date field given

Richard.


From jagbdotx at yahoo.com.br  Thu Aug 16 13:18:09 2001
From: jagbdotx at yahoo.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o?= Alfredo)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 14:18:09 -0300
Subject: socket + select
Message-ID: <997982318.29555.8.camel@spoc>

Hi people,

Does anyone cold point me a example of socket programming using
select/poll to handle several requests?!?

Thanks in advance.

PS: sorry about my english.




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Thu Aug  9 06:32:41 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:32:41 +0100
Subject: sorting strings by size
Message-ID: <3B7266C9.90706@herts.ac.uk>

Can anyone thing of a more eligant way of doing this? I am trying to 
extract the keys of my dict and sort them according to size, but this 
currently seems kinda crude

temp = [(len(x), x) for x in motifs.keys()]
temp.sort()
temp.reverse()
motiflist = [x[1] for x in temp]

blobby



From zooko at zooko.com  Sat Aug  4 11:09:10 2001
From: zooko at zooko.com (zooko at zooko.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 08:09:10 -0700
Subject: bug report: [ #447945 ] time.time() is not non-decreasing
Message-ID: <E15T338-0001lh-00@imp.aerie>

[[[As an aside on the topic of bug-tracking systems: 

   I submitted this on sourceforge, and discovered that it escapes HTML tags so
   that they just show up in your text.  So this is the worst of both worlds:
   your formatting options are even more limited than simple ASCII e-mail bug
   reports would be, and you can't use your familiar e-mail UI, you have to use
   this slow, unstable, inconvenient, ugly HTML UI.  I suppose the one
   advantage of an HTML-based bug tracking system like that is that people who
   can't/won't submit e-mail bug reports might submit HTML bug reports, but 
   I have to suggest that those are often the least valuable bug reports...]]]


After spending many hours tracking down weird race conditions in Mojo
Nation[1], I've finally realized that the problem is that we assumed that
`time.time()' would return non-decreasing answers. In fact, successive calls to
`time.time()' can return a *smaller* number than previous calls, as
demonstrated by this test (Python 2.0 on debian woody):

import time 

x = 0 
while 1: 
    ox = x 
    x = time.time() 
    if x < ox: 
        print "this is WRONG: ox: %s, x: %s\n" % (ox, x,) 
    else: 
        print ".", 

In order to get the race conditions out of Mojo Nation, I'm writing a
`non_decreasing_time()', which does what we thought `time()' would do. In fact,
I might just make it `increasing_time()'.  In any case, the `time.time()' in
the standard library should either be fixed to be non-decreasing (my
preference), or the documentation should be updated to warn about the
surprise.

Regards,

Zooko

[1] http://mojonation.net/




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 10:28:35 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:28:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 152 is faster that 221 ? I think not ...
In-Reply-To: <9mg0qb0gr2@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281025420.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.998996203.25913.python-list at python.org...
>     ...
> > It's quite simple. file.readlines() generates a true list in one go,
> whereas
> > xreadlines.xreadlines() creates a generator that has to be called each
> time
> > you want a line. Generators will never be faster than data.
>
> ...except when the data takes up enough physical memory to cause
> page faults, in which case it doesn't take much for the memory-lean
> generator to be faster.  In theory a similar effect could show up
> on a much smaller scale with cache-faults, but I've never observed
> that myself, to my knowledge.
>
>
> > If you test range() versus xrange() for very large values you'll find the
> same
> > thing, even in the same version of Python.
>
> Exactly -- the same thing: as long as the space consume by range
> is not enough to overfill your physical memory and thus cause
> page faults, range will be faster -- over that, xrange will.  To
> test this, better use a machine with not too much physical RAM,
> or a platform which lets you hard-constrain the amount of
> physical pages devoted to a given process.
>
>
> Alex

Very true in both cases. For a graphic demonstration of this, instantiate both
xrange(1e8) and range(1e8) (Hint: Don't ACTUALLY try range(1e8), unless you
feel like hosing your computer. It takes around 400MB just to hold the raw
integers generated; you don't want to know how much it takes to hold the whole
list...).

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 00:34:09 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:34:09 -0500
Subject: Hacking in python
In-Reply-To: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com>
References: <20010815231601.01525.00000488@mb-cb.aol.com>
Message-ID: <15227.19777.589992.179714@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> Does any 1 know any thing about hacking in python

Here are a couple pointers, courtesy of Google:

    http://www.hetland.org/python/instant-hacking.php
    http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From rachelw81 at zdnetonebox.com  Wed Aug 22 00:51:23 2001
From: rachelw81 at zdnetonebox.com (S&J Enterprise)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:51:23 -0500
Subject: ENTREPRENEUR'S DREAM! 
Message-ID: <1678817-22001832245123360@www.biocrave-sat.com>

This email is being sent to you because of your DESIRE for SUCCESS!  There is no need to unsubscribe. This is an one time only e-mail. I received your e-mail as someone interested in Internet Business Opportunities.  If I received your e-mail in error please excuse any inconvenience.

$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#



THIS IS TRULY AN ENTREPRENEUR'S DREAM! 

Fast-selling products enable you to EARN MONEY QUICKLY -- 
Thousands of prospects in your area plus Internet sales can put you in a Global Business right from home! 
Move quickly and you can be positioned for almost sure Huge PROFITS!! 

This is extremely exciting and I am thrilled to be able to offer it to you!

This brand new opportunity is going to EXPLODE over the next few weeks and you have the opportunity to get in 
right now, at the TOP. I mean the top. I am not kidding. I am within the firsth 5 levels direct to the company it is 
PRE-LAUNCHING IN LESS THAN A WEEK on August 25th! You can't get any closer than that to the top!
DO WHATEVER YOU CAN DO TO GET IN THIS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!

Do you want to make real money?????
I strongly advise that you take a serious look at this. We 
are talking a HUGE INCOME POTENTIAL HERE!! This 
by itself can make enough money to change the rest of 
your life.

http://ENTREPRENEURS-DREAM.hypermart.net


Thanks,
Rachel Wilson 
Owner
S&J Enterprise





From jonas.b at home.se  Tue Aug 28 16:56:59 2001
From: jonas.b at home.se (Jonas Bengtsson)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:56:59 -0700
Subject: Autoresize in Tkinter
Message-ID: <4e2ddb70.0108281256.6a23eabc@posting.google.com>

Why doesn't the text resize with the frame in this code example?

import Tkinter as Tk 
root = Tk.Tk()
t=Tk.Text(root)
t.grid(sticky=Tk.NW+Tk.SE)
t.insert(Tk.END, "test")
root.mainloop()

/Jonas B


From timr at probo.com  Tue Aug 28 02:27:44 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:27:44 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1.1 ... stupid error in import.c
References: <9m609h02ca2@drn.newsguy.com> <uvugotgfhdhf7f0fenfeh27bqakbk9127r@4ax.com> <9mb9pq0os4@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <g8dmot0dvrd8gnn41c72i5nbgs7uc02uik@4ax.com>

Armin Steinhoff <Armin_member at newsguy.com> wrote:

>In article <uvugotgfhdhf7f0fenfeh27bqakbk9127r at 4ax.com>, Tim says...
>>
>>When you install Python in a Unix-like system, you specify a top-level
>>"prefix".  This is usually either /usr or /usr/local.  The Python binary is
>>then installed in $prefix/bin.  The modules are installed in
>>$prefix/lib/python-2.1 (that is, only the first two digits of the version
>>are used to make the library path).
>
>Sorry ... you missing the point. I didn't install the binaries of Python !!

OK, I think I see what you're saying.  Let me repeat something you
originally wrote:

>>>After some hacking with DDD .. I found out that the pathes used by the search
>>>algorithm of import.c has nothing to do with the directory structure of the
>>>UNIX distribution of Python 2.1.1 =:-/

So, are you saying here that you would like to execute the interpreter out
of the build directory, using the source directory structure?  Later, you
also said this:

>>>I have installed Python in the root directory ...

I interpreted this to mean you INSTALLED Python in the root directory.  But
does this really mean you UNTARRED Python in the root directory?

>>>and set PYTHONHOME/PYTHONPATH to /Python-2.1.1 -> the path to the
>>>library modules is then
>>>
>>>                     -> /Python-2.1.1/Lib
>>
>>What you describe is the way a Windows installation works.
>
>Nonsens ...

Not at all.  That IS the way Python is installed on Windows: the whole
product installs under a single top-level directory, with the modules in a
Lib directory underneath.  This is, however, irrelevant to your original
question.

>You are missing the point ... the search algorithm doesn't meet the 
>directory structure of the source archive of Python-2.1.1!

Right.  It's not SUPPOSED to.  It's supposed to match the directory
structure of an INSTALLED version of Python-2.1.1, meaning one that has had
a  "make" and a "make install".
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 10 12:57:18 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:57:18 -0700
Subject: 100,000 messages celebration?
References: <mailman.997397537.10330.python-list@python.org> <3B7384D0.12FB2B35@letterror.com> <VfTc7.249449$EF2.30622142@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9l13pe01rcc@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <VfTc7.249449$EF2.30622142 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>,
cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu says...
>
>* Just van Rossum <just at letterror.com> menulis:
>| 
>| What he says. Here's a nice-looking graph, though:
>| 
>|   http://starship.python.net/~just/comp.lang.python/
>
>That huge jump in traffic in 2000 is what caused me to learn how to use
>filters in my newsreader. :)
>
(Let's all killfile this guy.)

just-kidding-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 11 11:35:00 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:35:00 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9l3f170adp at enews1.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>I agree: it's not good programming for any module to import
>from the main script.  Dependencies should always be in the
>other direction -- main script importing modules, not vice versa.
>
>
>> Isn't this a wart?
>
>It's surely IMHO a wart in your program if you need a module
>to import from the main script.
>
>If you're asking, is it a wart of Python that it allows you to
>import the main script at all, my answer is that I don't think
>so: Python is not in the business of enforcing good programming
>practices.  Python gives you all the tools you need to structure
>your programs well, and even provides a hint that "you really
>shouldn't be doing this unless you really know what you're
>doing" by having the main script's name decorated with
>underscores -- now if you still want to go ahead and do it,
>it's upon your head.

well I didn't write the write the original of the problem causing
scripts and have now rewritten exactly in the way you suggest. 

The real wart I feel is that the module a has two names, one when run as
a script and the other when imported. 

I suppose there is some overriding implementation issue, but it seems to
me that in the file a.py

__file__ and __name__ ought always to be defined and given the
appropriate 'right' values.

Since magic variables/names seem to be natural in python I would just
make __main__ true in the main script and false everywhere else. It's
truth value could be the module that corresponds to the main script.

That would break all the if __name__=='__main__' scripts so it could
never be done.
-- 
Robin Becker


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 10:07:43 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:07:43 -0500
Subject: enhancing slicing
In-Reply-To: <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com>
References: <9m2sij$1f8s$1@ID-102451.news.dfncis.de>
        <roy-1DB49F.08271523082001@news1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15237.3631.564785.670805@beluga.mojam.com>

>>>>> "Roy" == Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

    Roy> "Juan Vali?o" <juanv at posta.unizar.es> wrote:
    >> My proposal is to introduce a new operator, for instance # (count):
    >> v[5 # 2]

    Roy> I don't see that this adds anything to the language that can't be
    Roy> done already, other than being another way to do the same thing.

Not to mention which the comment introduction character is probably a bad
choice as an operator. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 22 03:47:23 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:47:23 +0200
Subject: When to use exceptions (was Re: reducing  if statements...)
References: <mailman.998401650.6829.python-list@python.org>        <9lu1nr02nbs@enews4.newsguy.com>        <u1ym5atdm.fsf_-_@advancedmp.net> <15234.62574.38494.765173@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <003801c12ade$af8d3da0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> writes:
    ...
>     Don> So, are there some good patterns, idioms, or whatever to provide
>     Don> guidance on when to use exceptions vs. checking error codes,
>     Don> etc. (other than the obvious general qualities: ease of use,
>     Don> readability, modifiability, ...)?
>
> I don't know that there are any codified examples of useful patterns for
> using exceptions vs. checking error codes.  (Alex might know.  If anyone
> would, I expect it would be him... ;-) Many modules define their own
"error"

http://www.objectarchitects.de/arcus/cookbook/exhandling/ defines a
nice, rich pattern-language for error-handling.  If you're not used
to thinking in terms of pattern *languages*, but rather of isolated
design-patterns, their paper can be a bit overwhelming.  However,
the weaving of several patterns into an integrated pattern-language,
rather than just 'cataloging' them as isolated phenomena, is really
an important step forward -- so much depends on how patterns interact
with each other, reinforce each other, and so on.


> Since Python doesn't have a goto statement or multi-level break, people
> often use flag variables to accomplish this:

Yes, alas, they do.  Hiding flow-control in data -- *AARGH*!


> This always seemed pretty clumsy to me.  I prefer to use exceptions:
>
>     class done(Exception): pass
>     try:
>         for i in range(len(mylist)):
>             for j in range(len(mylist[i])):
>                 if some_predicate(mylist[i][j]):
>                     raise done
>     except done:
>         do_stuff_with(mylist[i][j])
>     else:
>         print "didn't find anything interesting..."
>
> YMMV.  Some people hate the construct.  I think it's pretty Pythonic.

Hear, hear!

You're not going to find THIS in the error-handling pattern
language, of course -- because exceptions *in Python* are not
JUST about error-handling (again, you just have to look at
how the for-statement knows it's finished iterating -- a
classic example of an exception used in a case that is MOST
definitely NOT an error!-).

Of course, there are alternatives that may sometimes be
preferable (particularly in these days of nested scopes,
but not necessarily -- I'm using arguments here):

        def look_for(a_list, a_predicate):
            for i in range(len(a_list)):
                for j in range(len(a_list[i])):
                    if a_predicate(a_list[i][j]):
                        return i,j
            return None, None
        i, j = look_for(mylist, mypredicate)
        if i is None:
            print "nothing interesting, alas"
        else:
            do_stuff_with(mylist, i, j)

I.e., local functions are also a pretty neat control
structure builder (they sure beat control-flow that is
disguised as data, aka 'a little auxiliary flag':-).

If there's any chance that the same control-flow
pattern can be needed more than once in the same
approximate neighborhood, then hoisting it up into
a function may well be better than coding it inline
(of course, it COULD be a function that in certain
cases ALSO raises an exception -- one neat thing
about exceptions being exactly that, by default,
they propagate -- but returns sometimes suffice...).

Here, I'd have my local function look_for raise an
exception IF (at least in some cases) the enclosing
function must also terminate 'abnormally' when
nothing interesting is found.  Otherwise there's
little to choose between the above structure and:

        class notFound(Exception): pass
        def look_for(a_list, a_predicate):
            for i in range(len(a_list)):
                for j in range(len(a_list[i])):
                    if a_predicate(a_list[i][j]):
                        return i,j
            raise notFound
        try:
            i, j = look_for(mylist, mypredicate)
        except notFound:
            print "nothing interesting, alas"
        else:
            do_stuff_with(mylist, i, j)

The choice may end up depending on such minor issues
as the fact that the first form lets you code the
found and not-found case in either order (well, so
can the second, but you'd have to place the call
to do_stuff_with in the try clause rather than in
the else clause, not a crystal-clear choice maybe),
or that the second form allows binding i and j to
junk "error-indication" values.


Alex





From sam at ddmweb.com  Wed Aug 15 14:15:10 2001
From: sam at ddmweb.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:15:10 -0700
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP) 
Message-ID: <01081512414200.01019@frock.ddmweb.com>

Geoffrey Gerriets has made some nice posts on Java-vs-Python for
nontrivial web applications:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:comp.lang.python+author:geoffrey&num=20&hl=en&safe=off&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=15&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2001&filter=0>
For Python pros, see especially:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:comp.lang.python+author:geoffrey&num=20&hl=en&safe=off&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=15&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2001&rnum=13&selm=mailman.991867093.27129.python-list%40python.org&filter=0>
and for Java
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:comp.lang.python+author:geoffrey&num=20&hl=en&safe=off&as_drrb=b&as_mind=29&as_minm=3&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=15&as_maxm=8&as_maxy=2001&rnum=20&selm=mailman.991359661.6922.python-list%40python.org&filter=0>

Summary: with Java you have a huge variety of pre-rolled solutions for
which it is easy to find support, programmers, etc. Java also has
proven solutions for very high load situations. But you are coding
in Java--enough said. Python makes programmers much more productive,
you can teach programmers fast (but you do generally have to teach
them), there aren't any (?) proven very-high-load solutions, there is
much less pre-rolled stuff.

Alex Martelli says:
>>If the connection to the database takes up a substantial fraction of
the CGI's working time, then a true CGI (which runs a new process
on every page-hit) may show bad performance.<<

It seems impossible to have a discussion about CGI without bringing up
performance issues, although almost no one making the comments seems to
have had an actual performance problem (Alex?). My theory is that this
meme started when the average web server was a 486 with 8 megs of RAM
and starting a few processes meant hitting a s-l-o-w swap disk and has
been given eternal life courtesy of Usenet. To my knowledge, there are
two situations in which you need to worry about CGI performance:

1) You are serving on Windows, where starting a process is much more
expensive than on *nix.

2) Your peak load is hundreds of CGI page views a minute per basic
Intel web server or equivalent, or it's lower but you can't afford
$1,000 worth of server.

The only people I have ever heard complain about actual Python CGI
performance limits encountered with production code are those running on
Windows. We run an ecommerce site that serves tens of thousands of
dynamic pages a day on a small cluster of Pentium III boxes (two traffic
managers, two web servers, database server) running RedHat Linux,
plain Apache, and MySQL. it works great. It was working great on a
single PIII server, but we wanted more reliability.



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Aug  1 04:23:52 2001
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:23:52 GMT
Subject: www.python.org is down
References: <mailman.996609912.28137.python-list@python.org> <3B67B68C.1D2987AA@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <s0P97.78913$Xr6.378821@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Michael Str?der:
> Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to migrate www.python.org
> away from CNRI to overcome some org. restrictions?

   CNRI *own* the python.org domain. IIRC, the PSF is negotiating with them
over this.

   Neil





From joonas at olen.to  Wed Aug  8 16:12:22 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:12:22 +0300
Subject: Creating pdf invoices with python
Message-ID: <3B719D26.F0E38B13@olen.to>

How can I create pdf invoices with Python.
I think reportlab can do the job, but i couldn't find any invoice
examples


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sat Aug 18 13:59:17 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2001 10:59:17 -0700
Subject: constant in python?
References: <mailman.998084808.10183.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd75tz1u2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Brian Quinlan" <BrianQ at ActiveState.com> writes:
> The questions is why do you need explicit language support for
> constants? Just don't change the value and it should behave constant
> enough for you.

I don't like the Java runtime system or the doctrinaire OO culture
that's grown up around Java, but enforcing constantness and the
privacy of non-public class instance variables and methods is one
thing the Java language did right.  It makes the "applet sandbox" a
natural idea.  This is useful not just for browser extensions, but for
programmable security coprocessors (Dallas iButton, NCipher SEE),
stored procedures in multi-user databases (Oracle 8i) and other
environments where you may want to hand a class instance to
potentially malicious code.

Perl has a "restricted execution" scheme that's pretty messy.  I
understand Python also has such a scheme, but I haven't studied it yet.


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Wed Aug 15 11:54:28 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:54:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Proposal: comp.lang.python.division ? [was: Anti-spam idea Re:
 Attention Physicians]
In-Reply-To: <etdpu9x4amd.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108151153150.881-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On 15 Aug 2001, Alex wrote:

> I would go for this if it blocked any mention of division semantics,
> too. 

Maybe it's time to split the newsgroup : 
	comp.lang.python.division, anyone ? 

-- Steve





From richard at bizarsoftware.com.au  Mon Aug 27 22:07:15 2001
From: richard at bizarsoftware.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:07:15 +1000
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
In-Reply-To: <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com> <3b8ac950.76149527@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <01082812071503.01419@ike>

On Tuesday 28 August 2001 08:27, Mats Wichmann wrote:
> Unfortunately Red Hat have recently decided that they won't change
> major versions of key packages on minor Red Hat releases... so we're
> stuck with Python 1.5.2 as the default until, oh, about RedHat 8.2.
>
> Folks need to be told that Linux is wonderful, but Red Hat doesn't
> necessarily prove that in their choice of what to bundle...

Mandrake 8.0, a red-hat-alike (which I find significantly nicer than Red Hat 
from a non-sysadmin user installation perspective) shipped with python 2.0 
some months ago. Mandrake's point-zero releases seem eminently usable...

I'm currently running 2.0 at home in a bog-standard install and 2.1.1 from 
the Mandrake cooker at work. No complaints in the months I've been using them 
both, and I'm a full-time Python developer.

I think that people need to know that Red Hat is not Linux.


    Richard



From richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com  Tue Aug 21 15:12:35 2001
From: richard at NOstarfighterSPAM.freeuk.com (RT)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:12:35 +0100
Subject: Example wanted for inspect module
References: <B5yg7.303492$Do6.12699793@nnrp4.clara.net>
Message-ID: <npyg7.303534$Do6.12704201@nnrp4.clara.net>

Doh!  now I've figured it out ...
e.g.

inspect.getmembers(inspect, inspect.isfunction)

> The inspect module's getmembers() function takes 2 arguments - the object
> whose members you want to retrieve and an (optional) predicate.
>
> Could somebody please provide an example of how the predicate is used (for
> example - to get only the functions from a module).
>





From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Sun Aug 19 17:38:11 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2001 14:38:11 -0700
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net>
Message-ID: <7xg0an91do.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Neil Macneale <mac4-devnull at theory.org> writes:
> Why does the interpreter exit when I use the os.execl() function? Even when
> the command works correctly, the interpreter exits. Am I supposed to run
> this function is a seperate thread?  Thats lame, if so.

The exec system call replaces the current program image with the program
that you exec.  See a Unix manual.  You're supposed to fork and run
exec in a new process.  Why don't you use popen or something like that?


From arundelo at mediaone.net  Wed Aug 22 12:02:02 2001
From: arundelo at mediaone.net (Aaron Brown)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:02:02 GMT
Subject: MSDOS/Windows program files
References: <bSJf7.10307$_q.197656@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net> <3B7FC7D7.E91828E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <_HQg7.10$2a.4483@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net>

[I already sent this in, and Peter got his cc, but for some
reason it apparently never appeared here on the newsgroup,
so here's another copy:]

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Maybe that's a bad assumption.  Why not post your code?

You were right -- it was my code!  The fact that the error
message caret always pointed to the last line of the program,
even if it was a comment, was just a symptom of  an input
statement earlier in the program that looked like this:

input("Spam?"

So the interpreter was just waiting around for that trailing
parenthesis.

Your response inspired me to go through the program and
selectively comment everything out -- I felt pretty silly when I
found the mistake.  Thanks for the help!

--Aaron








From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 19 06:45:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:45:56 +0200
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lmtir01jlq@enews1.newsguy.com> <7x66bkjzbj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9lo5uc2g3p@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
news:7x66bkjzbj.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> > GMP is pretty fast, and so is its wrapper GMPY.  See
> > gmpy.sf.net.  I don't think it's a "weird kludge" to wrap
> > a good multiprecision library to get at its functionality
> > from Python -- I think it's rather Pythonic, actually.
>
> Yes, using gmpy works pretty well if it's available.  But it's not a
> standard Python module.  It's kind of a strange idea though, that
> Python has built-in long ints but I have to use an add-on package if I
> want to do simple operations like find out how large a number is.

A good point, and therefore maybe Python longs should expose
more methods/readonly properties to give you direct access to
the underlying binary representation (or module struct should
have a format-code to handle that, but that sits badly with its
present architecture, where the struct.calcsize only depends on
the format string, not on the data being packed/unpacked).


> I guess I'll probably use gmpy in my application if I can, because
> it's quite a bit faster than Python's built-in arithmetic, though
> Python's is quite respectable and useable (as compared to, say, perl's
> Math::BigInt package.

I remember there used to be a freely downloadable adjunct to
Visual C++ to let it produce code for Windows CE, which as you
explain later is your target environment -- I dunno if it's still
available and if so on what terms.  One would have to start by
porting the Gnu MP library though -- presumably in the C-only
version (CE targets quite a few different CPU's, right?)... maybe
a Python fork to expose a couple of readonly properties and a
factory function for long/binary-string interconversion would be
easier (of course, one would still have to have a C compiler for
WinCE to rebuild the forked Python, sigh).


Alex





From bernhard at intevation.de  Fri Aug 10 06:25:17 2001
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:25:17 GMT
Subject: Mailman archiver (inadvisable) translates Latin 1 characters
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108092013100.1780-100000@cens.ioc.ee>
    <kubslpc4yl.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <9l0cqd$6vi5g$3@ID-89274.news.dfncis.de>

In article <kubslpc4yl.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
	Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:
> In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108092013100.1780-100000 at cens.ioc.ee>,
> Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:

>| This message was originally sent to mailman users group but due to the
>| delay there I'll try this newsgroup if someone could help me.

>| ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>| Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:46:28 +0200 (EET)
>| From: Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee>
>| To: mailman-users at python.org
>| Subject: Latin 1 characters

>| I have noticed that latin 1 (or rather non US ascii) characters are mapped
>| to 3-strings starting with = character when messages are shown in the
>| Mailman archive. For example,
> 
>| ? -> =F5
>| ? -> =D5

> actually it is not mailman that does this, it is the sender. some mail
> user agents escape all non-ascii characters this way, even though
> practically all non-8-bit-clean mail software has disappeared from the
> face of the earth by now.

This is correct.

> the archive part of mailman does not know how to decode this
> encoding (it is called "quoted-printable", also often called
> "quoted-unreadable" :) ).

The name of the part is pipermail. A. Kuchling started it, 
but stopped development when he noticed hypermail and mhonarc.
	http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html
It was incorporated into mailman later.

> i guess mailman will have to be taught how to cope with this.  you
> could also use some other web archiving software. i have good
> experience with mhonarc. (it is nicer in some other respects too.)

I like hypermail better.
Note that Mailman has explicit possibilities to use external
archiving programs.  The  ffii.org/archive/mails/
runs mailman with hypermail and my haof extensions.

	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            	  (fsfeurope.org)


From bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca  Thu Aug 16 03:44:45 2001
From: bsass at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Sass)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:44:45 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: a list of ways to install Python (*nix) (was: 'python' Bash command
 doesn't link to 2.1.1)
In-Reply-To: <m3zo91vvj1.fsf@wilma.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108160016050.564-100000@bms>

On 15 Aug 2001, Harry George wrote:
> Richard Jones <richard at bizarsoftware.com.au> writes:
> > On Tuesday 14 August 2001 10:23, root wrote:
> > > Hello, I've decided to use Python as my first programming language (as
> > > per advice at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ) and
> > > I've run into a problem during installation.
> >
> > Marvellous idea :)
> >
> > > I cannot, however, run Python 2.1.1 using the 'python' terminal command
> > > and there is no Python man page installed.  Typing 'python' at the
> > > command prompt brings up the 1.5.2 interpreter.  I can run the 2.1.1
> > > interpreter by typing the path of the toplevel Python directory and then
> > > /python (e.g. /home/root/Python-2.1.1/python) but I don't want to have
> > > to do this every time I start the interpreter and I would also like to
> > > have the man page installed.
> >
> > By default, python will be installed to /usr/local/bin. Your system will have
> > python 1.5.2 installed in /usr/bin. That binary will be found first when you
> > type "python" at the command line. To force using python 2.1.1, run
> > "/usr/local/bin/python".
> >
> > Or, do the following (as root):
> >
> >  cp /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/python1.5
> >  cd /home/root/Python-2.1.1/
> >  make distclean
> >  ./configure --prefix=/usr
> >  make install
>
> An alternative, allowing you to run several different verisons of
> python:
>
> as root edit a file "/usr/local/bin/py21":
> #---edit------------
> export PYTHONHOME=/usr/local
> export PYTHONPATH=${PYTHONHOME}/lib/python2.1:${PYTHONHOME}/lib/python2.1/site-apckages
> ${PYTHONHOME}/bin/python2.1 $@
> #---end edit-----------
> and do
>    chmod +755 py21
>
> Then you can run python 2.1 stuff with "py21" and python 1.5.2 with
> "python".  This may be important if some system scripts depend on one
> version or the other.
>
> > the --prefix=/usr tells the install to place python in /usr/bin (and the
> > library files will go in /usr/lib/python2.1). Note, you'll want to remove the
> > "other" python2.1 installation too (/usr/local/bin/python and
> > /usr/local/lib/python2.1). The first command above just keeps the old python
> > around just in case you need it in the future.
> >
> > Then you will be able to run "python" at the command prompt and get 2.1.1 :)

I've found this works well:

- PYTHON{HOME,PATH} are unset, Debian's site.py also adds
  /usr/local/... to PYTHONPATH

- interpreters installed as bin/python<major>.<minor>

- /usr/bin/python is a link to the system's default Python

- /usr/local/bin/python -> maybe what I want as the default Python

- executable scripts in Tools/... get rewritten so that:
  "bin/python" disappears and "env python" uses the proper
  python<maj>.<min> (see Tools/scripts/fixps.py), then installed
  with a -<version> suffix and the same bin vs. local/bin game
  as with the interpreters
  [only for local stuff, Debian looks after /usr/{bin/lib}]

- $HOME/.pythonrc.py sets up the interactive environments

Toss in whatever shortcut files and menu entries your system supports
(system, KDE, Gnome, etc., don't use absolute paths to the
executables) -- it is very easy to select which interpreter/idle/etc.
to use from menues, or between the local and system defaults with a
few symlinks.  I have been caught once, when local/bin/python pointed
to a Python a system script didn't work with (and I think it was a
packaging error), but that may only be because Python has been pretty
good at being backwards compatible.


- Bruce




From eyal at hyperroll.com  Sat Aug 25 15:08:41 2001
From: eyal at hyperroll.com (Eyal Lotem)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:08:41 +0300
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <7x4rqwllrn.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3b87f794@news.bezeqint.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:

>     from __future__ import nested_scopes   # python 2.1.1
> 
>     def foo (n):
>         a = lambda: 'you said (%d)' % n
>         n += 3
>         return a
> 
>     x = foo(1)
>     print x()
> 
> This prints 4, rather than 1 as I would have expected.
> I think I understand what's going on, but is it really what was intended?
> Is there a preferred way of writing this kind of function?
> 
> Thanks.

There are two issues:

A) What does the nested scope 'n' refer to: the object that 'n' evaluates 
at the external scope at the time of the lambda definition, or is it the 
same 'n' reference as in the external scope.
B) Is the function's scope 'n' reference the same reference as the given 
parameter.

I think the answer to question B is obvious since far before nested scopes 
were introduced:

def f(n):
  n = n + 1
a = 1
f(a)

was never expected to increase a, thus: the function's scope 'n' reference 
is NOT the same reference as the given parameter.

The answer to A is that the internal-scope reference 'n' IS the same 
reference as the external scope 'n', and reassigning the 'n' reference in 
the external scope means that the internal-scope 'n' reference is changed.
Another possible behaviour would be to 'emulate' argument-type behaviour in 
nested scopes, so that when defining the lambda, the named references seem 
to be given by argument, and assigned to refer to the same objects as the 
external scope.  This is utterly bogus, and would require all the symbol 
names in the nested scope to exist in the external scope at the time of 
definition of the lambda, which stands in contrast to the dynamic approach 
of delaying the binding to the last possible time.

These two answers explain the result of the code you have.
The reference to the '1' object given to the function 'foo' is distinct 
from the reference 'n'.  The reference 'n' is set to refer to the object 
'4' in function 'foo'. The internal-function reference 'n' IS the 
internal-lambda reference 'n', which means that when reassigning 'n' to 4 
the internal-lambda reference is also refering to 4, which explains the 
resulted behaviour.

I think this behaviour is the only way to go, otherwise we're contradicting 
A or B which would contrast strong Python ideas.

Note that this is all based on my understanding of nested scopes and their 
implementation, which is limited to a very small experience with them.  
However, I do feel I have an understanding of the issue.



From s.schwarzer at ndh.net  Sat Aug 11 18:45:54 2001
From: s.schwarzer at ndh.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:45:54 +0100
Subject: Py 1.5.2 -> Py 2.1.1 broke regular expression?
References: <mailman.997562539.29253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B75B5A2.65E0E5CE@ndh.net>

Hello Roman

Thanks for your reply.

Roman Suzi schrieb:
> >[...]
> >First, I thought it was because of the number of IRC sessions but the program
> >fails with the second pattern even for few (5) sessions. It used to handle
> >much larger numbers.
> >
> >Any hints? A bug or a change in the regular syntax; anything else?

(should have been "regular expression syntax", of course)

> I too encounterd such problem even without "(?=" construct... and it
> healed itself when I reduced the number of lines in the file.

Did it also work with Python 1.5.2 but not with Python >1.5.2 ?

> I was in hurry and forgot to record conditions of trouble.
> But I remember I too used cross-end-of-line patterns ("\n"-s)
> but not \Z.
> 
> It is not safe in Python 2.x to let re's loose on some big file.

Uhm, the file has 5200 lines in it. I think that _should_ not cause any
problems, so it seems like a bug to me.

Stefan


From kwg at renre-europe.com  Tue Aug  7 09:01:26 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 07 Aug 2001 14:01:26 +0100
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <3B6FDC24.72A9DC7@westerngeco.com>
References: <mailman.997178713.4482.python-list@python.org> 
	<3B6FDC24.72A9DC7@westerngeco.com>
Message-ID: <997189306.19769.6.camel@lewis>

On 07 Aug 2001 13:16:36 +0100, Martin Franklin wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> Take a look at the Pmw (Python Mega Widgets)
> they've got an EntryField with validation plus some
> built in validators (including dates, numbers, etc)
> I use it for validating filenames.

hi Martin,
thanks for that, but I'm  fairly much committed to using tkinter.
Can they both (tkinter and pmw) coexist within the same application?
That might make things more likely to be reconsidered
(as we're migrating a tcl+tk app over to python and really don't
want to change too much of it too quickly).


thanks

Ken.




From paul at boddie.net  Mon Aug  6 06:02:03 2001
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 03:02:03 -0700
Subject: Python & wxGTK & wxPython on Solaris 2.6
References: <WAya7.1444$xY6.172862@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0108060202.2265d11@posting.google.com>

"Doug Farrell" <writeson at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<WAya7.1444$xY6.172862 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

[Python, Solaris]

> Now I've downloaded wxGTK version 2.3.1 and have tried to build/install it
> prior to installing wxPython. The problem I'm having is this; when I run
> ./configure --with-gtk for wxGTK it runs for quite awhile checking things
> out, but then exits with a
> 
> setup.h not changed
> config.status: test: argument expected

You should probably check the appropriate mailing list archives and
other resources for wxGTK - it really isn't anything to do with Python
as such.

Some hints: check config.log for more details of the error, try
passing -v to configure to get verbose reporting of what it is doing,
check the configure script itself at the point of failure. I have done
various things with autoconf and Bourne shell scripts recently and I
wouldn't be that surprised if the line with the "test" on it was
either badly formed or used an environment variable which isn't
defined.

> I'm not sure what this means or where I should look to resolve the problem.
> I would really appreciate any help or guidance on this. I'm trying to make
> Python the scripting language of choice at work over Perl, and I'd really
> like to show off wxPython as a way to convince people and as a useful tool.

Start at http://www.wxwindows.org and follow the links to wxGTK,
perhaps. There's also an active wxPython mailing list which is found
from http://www.wxpython.org, of course.

Paul


From dinu at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 22 07:48:01 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:48:01 GMT
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
Message-ID: <3b8394bf.3928488@news.t-online.de>

Hi,

I wonder if there is a way to tell if a module is 
part of the standard library or not, when you scan 
over Python source code and handle import statement 
"events"?

Note that I'm not interested in the complexities of 
loading a module named "copy" that sits in the cur-
rent directory, shadowing the one in the standard 
library, though...

I think all I like to know is if there is a cross-
platform way to (normally) find out from these 
lines:

  >>> import copy
  >>> copy.__file__
  'c:\\programs\\python21\\lib\\copy.pyc'
  >>> import xmlpp
  >>> xmlpp.__file__
  'c:\\users\\gherman\\python\\lib\\xmlpp.py'
  >>> 

that 'c:\\programs\\python21\\lib' is the folder
in which the standard library is installed? 

Of course, this should work without having to im-
port all or even a large fraction of some known 
standard modules and verify if their __file__ 
attribute's directory part is the same... 

Ideally, one would not need to import anything, but 
could simply check for an import statement event (on 
the code level) if the module name exists in the fol-
der of the standard library or not (modulo some sha-
dowing effects).

Or, to put it differently: how do I find the stan-
dard library's installation folder without importing 
anything?

Regards,

Dinu

-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 16 11:31:36 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:31:36 -0500
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
References: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <tnnq6npco20l59@corp.supernews.com>

Thank you all for the reponses.  We are going to try both:  Python, and JSP
and take it from there; although I much prefer to stick with Python.
Maan

"Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:tnivoil464c658 at corp.supernews.com...
> Hi to the most esteemed Python People
> I work as a programmer and we are working on a web project.  I am pushing
> for Python.  The web project calls for logging into an Oracle database,
> uploading and downloading files depending on the login information,
> processing uploaded files, and a host of million other things.  I had
> already done the basic functionality all in CGI using Python.  Someone
else
> here is calling for the use of JSP.  So, the question being asked here:
Why
> do I want to use Python and NOT JSP?  I simply can not just say:  Well, it
> is an issue of bias, and I know Python and like it, and can stand neither
> JAVA, nor JSP although I do not know anything about JSP.
> Did anyone here deal with JSP in addition to Python?  If yes, how could
you
> convince a skeptical management to use Python and not JSP?
> We use an IPlanet web server running on Sun Solaris by the way.
> Thanks for any information,
> Maan
>
>




From list.adam at twardoch.com  Tue Aug 21 00:32:47 2001
From: list.adam at twardoch.com (Adam Twardoch)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:32:47 -0700
Subject: [Q/newbie] Converting object names to strings and back? 
Message-ID: <to3pa38u7j4690@news.supernews.com>

I'm trying to write the contents of some Python objects to a text file. The
output should look like
objectname + "=" + objectcontents
objectname + "=" + objectcontents

Then, I want to read that file and store the objectcontents in the
respective objects.

My question: how can I determine the name of a particular object, or,
precisely, convert it to a string? And then, when I have a string (for
example "MyObject.property"), how can I make Python find the object with
that particular name?

I know that in Perl, constructs like $$variable can help.

I'm just starting with Python, so please have mercy. And, I must use Py
1.5.2 for Windows.

Thank you in advance,
  Adam




From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 13 16:22:27 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:22:27 GMT
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org> <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com> <mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b7834be.753565800@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:19:25 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Ian> Clearly there'll be an effective tool to identify likely areas of
>    Ian> concern, but I hope it won't generate too many false-positives (if
>    Ian> that's the correct way round) and zero of whatever the opposite is.
>
>I posted this once.  Maybe once again will be sufficient... ;-)
>
Except on NT4 globbing isn't the default unless you have setargv.obj linked
into your executable (python in this case), so, ignoring indentation changes (-b)
here's a patch for NT to run with 2.1:

[13:18] C:\pywk\tok>diff -u -b finddiv.py.orig finddiv.py
--- finddiv.py.orig     Mon Aug 13 12:43:29 2001
+++ finddiv.py  Mon Aug 13 13:11:36 2001
@@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
 import tokenize
 import sys
+import glob

 class TokenSorter:
     def __init__(self, f):
@@ -21,7 +22,8 @@
             self.lastprinted = self.linenumber

 def main():
-    for fn in sys.argv[1:]:
+    for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
+        for fn in glob.glob(arg):
         try:
             f = open(fn)
         except IOError:

add the '+' lines and subtract the '-' lines, and adjust the
indent for the extra loop nest, and it should work.
(Non-'+/-' lines are just to show context)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 10:42:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:42:38 +0200
Subject: strange list behaviour in 2.1.1
References: <b9ae8e0f.0108050713.16408c16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kmai7011u8@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Adrian Smith" <adrian_p_smith at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b9ae8e0f.0108050713.16408c16 at posting.google.com...
> There is a mysterious thing. I wish to take a string from the end of
> one list to the beginning of another, as one might. If I do it
> interactively by hand, with two lists called 'first' and 'second':
>
> >>> second = [first[-1]] + second
> >>> del first[-1]
>
> ...it works fine, but if I put it in a procedure, and call it with the
> parameters 'first' and 'second':
>
> def overflow(firstlist, secondlist):
>     secondlist = [firstlist[-1]] + secondlist
>     del firstlist[-1]
>
> ...the last element of 'first' gets deleted, but 'second' remains
> unaltered. Is there some strange aspect of list assignment I'm
> overlooking here?

No, what you're overlooking is rather one of the most fundamental
aspects of Python: its simple and uniform rules on objects, variable
bindings, and scope.  The effbot has a nice essay on this (dunno if
www.effbot.org is back online yet).

Whether a function rebinds its local variables or not is never going
to affect anything outside the function.  An argument is a local
variable.  Therefore, whether a function rebinds its arguments or
not is never going to affect anything outside the function, and in
particular not the value that was originally passed -- that value
CAN be affected, but not by rebinding a local variable that was
bound to it (rebinding a variable never affects the object that
was previously bound to the variable) -- and NOT the caller's
variable (if any) that was used to pass that value.

Rather than rebinding secondlist, you should be mutating it:
    secondlist[:] = [firstlist[-1]] + secondlist
or more simply:
    secondlist[0:0] = firstlist[-1:]
or equivalently:
    secondlist.insert(0, firstlist[-1])

NOW, since you're modifying the OBJECT (NOT just rebinding a
variable that happens to start out bound to the object), the
caller will see your modifications.


Alex





From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Aug 25 18:36:52 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 00:36:52 +0200
Subject: scoping weirdness
References: <mailman.998722657.1161.python-list@python.org> <7xn14oilko.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <9m99a4$c7u$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
...really helpful answer that was wiped out prematurely snipped
> Yes, let me go up a level and ask if there's a better way to do this.
> It's for Tkinter--say I want several buttons that all call the same
> function, giving the button text as an argument.  My code looks
> something like:

>     from __future__ import nested_scopes

Ah, your were relying on nested scopes. They were ment to save us from 
users wondering why their vars weren't visible inside their lambda's,
but now we get "help my lambda keeps seing the var in the enclosing block"

Thank god the old way of dealing with this still works: curry.
Either with a class or by feding arguments to the lambda at definition time.

>     def create_button (label):
>       func = lambda: press_button (label)

replace the above with:

   func = lambda label=label: press_button (label)

or use a class based cury (better classes to be found in the cookbook
and the c.l.py archives):

   class Cury:
       def __init__(self, fun, *args, **kws):
          self.fun, self.args, self.kws = fun, args, kws

       def __call__(self, *event):
          # let's put an event arg here so this same code can be used
          # for Tk callbacks that pass an event as you will need that too.
          # we arbitrary place it upfront, and we use an arg list
          # as that saves us from having to choos a default value that
          # would signal not to pass it on.
          return self.fun(*(event+self.args), **self.kws)

   func = Cury(press_button, label)        

-- 
groetjes, carel


From goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu  Wed Aug  8 16:47:11 2001
From: goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu (Lloyd Goldwasser)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 13:47:11 -0700
Subject: Creating multi-dimensional arrays
References: <9kqupp$1jt$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B71A54F.C830B8DC@demog.berkeley.edu>

spam_buster_2000 at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> I've been writing a couple of programs recently which use multi-dimensional arrays of
> a predefined size, and I was wondering if there was a standard idiomatic way of creating
> these in Python. I'm not looking to restrict the arrays to contain specific types, so just
> pointing me to Numeric isn't the answer here.

Here's something I use:

def nestedList(dimens, value=None):
  """Return a list of unique copies of value,
  nested according to the positive integers in dimens."""
  if len(dimens)==0:
    return value
  else:
    return [ nestedList(dimens[1:], value) for i in range(dimens[0]) ]

The first argument is a list of the lengths along each dimension; your
example would be nestedList([10,10,10], 0).  It works with any types:

>>> nestedList([3,2,5], 'aoe')
[[['aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe'], ['aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe',
'aoe']], [['aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe'], ['aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe',
'aoe', 'aoe']], [['aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe'], ['aoe', 'aoe',
'aoe', 'aoe', 'aoe']]]

I suppose that the recursion isn't especially idiomatic (if you guessed
that this routine is a Python translation of something I originally
wrote in Scheme, you'd be right, but it's nice that the Python version
is shorter and clearer than the original).  As the number of dimensions
gets up around a dozen, things slow down a bit, but then you're working
with lots of elements.

Lloyd


-- 
Lloyd Goldwasser                                Department of Demography
goldwasser at demog.berkeley.edu                   2232 Piedmont Ave. #2120
(510) 642-0525                                  University of California
fax: (510) 643-8558                             Berkeley, CA  94720-2120


From fdrake at acm.org  Mon Aug 20 18:41:02 2001
From: fdrake at acm.org (Fred L. Drake)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:41:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [development doc updates]
Message-ID: <20010820224102.B942E28846@beowolf.digicool.com>

The development version of the documentation has been updated:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/

Final documentation for Python 2.2 alpha 2.




From michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk  Tue Aug 21 20:46:20 2001
From: michael.williams at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Michael Williams)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 17:46:20 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
Message-ID: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Sorry if this question has been done to death but my friend Mr Google
Groups wasn't able to point me in the direction of the answer.

I'm an undergraduate doing a relatively simple bit of functional
programming, looking at the behaviour of Lorenz attractors. My
department recommends (or uses as standard) Pascal. I'd rather avoid
this, and Python is something I've been looking into.

(Amongst other things!) what I want to do is multiply an array of
floating points numbers with a float elementwise, i.e.

>>> [1.0, 2.0, 3.0] * 4.0
[4.0, 8.0, 12.0]

Of course this is not the usual behaviour of lists, which is to repeat
the list making a 12 object list in that example. The obvious way that
struck me to do this was simply to step through the list by index,
multiplying each element "manually", to wit:

array1 = [1.0, 2.0, 3.0]
for i in len(array1):
    array1[i] = array1[i] * 4.0

The program will do this operation a lot so I'm concerned that this
should be the most efficient way of doing this. Is it? My arrays are
relatively small (~10^2 elements). I looked at NumPy's array() object
and the array module that comes with a standard installation as
solutions and they both seem to fit the bill too. Is using either of
these an unecessariy complex/slow way of doing this (and only this)?

Thanks for any advice,

-- 
Michael Williams


From tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net  Wed Aug 15 13:07:00 2001
From: tolot at solar-system.dynodns.net (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:07:00 +0200
Subject: Reading Tapes
References: <9l855u$bba$1@talia.mad.ttd.net> <m266bph17o.fsf@mouse.copelandconsulting.net>
Message-ID: <k7ael9.ri6.ln@utolot.toppoint.de>

Greg Copeland <gtcopeland at earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's been a while so forgive me if I've got this wrong,
> but shouldn't you be doing:
> dat = open( '\\\\.\\Tape0' ).read()

Or, less ugly (IMHO) using a raw string:
dat = open(r'\\.\Tape0').read()

Ciao
  Marc


From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Thu Aug  9 11:35:53 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 15:35:53 GMT
Subject: Python, mysql, roundoff problem?
References: <mailman.997332974.12791.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kuakp$j5d$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>

According to Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com>:
> Unfortunately, most of the people who *need* decimal arithmetic aren't
> really capable of articulating exactly what or why 

I need decimal arithmetic for business computation. As to the specification
of the arithmetic - no clue! ;-) Does TAOCP say anything about this topic?

Actually I've updated my Money class to use your FixedPoint.py. Felt much
better than when it used my quickie BigDecimal.py. ;-)

Next I gotta think about i18n for the Money stuff.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Aug 24 20:00:01 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:00:01 +0100
Subject: Image manipulation
References: <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <$KMOVXABquh7Ew7M@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3 at 4ax.com>, Tom Robinson
<tom at alkali.spamfree.org> writes
>Hi, I want to be able to read in a png/jpeg and then write it out
>resized with proper antialiasing etc.  I've looked on the vaults of
>parnassus and there seem to be quite a few things that do this, is
>there a "best" one?  Is there something in the standard lib that's up
>to this?
>
Well PIL from http://www.pythonware.com is the very thing. Reads many
image formats and has lots of goodies for image manipulation/massaging.
-- 
Robin Becker


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Aug 22 04:11:47 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:11:47 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
In-Reply-To: <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20010822101147.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 22-Aug-2001 Sylvain Thenault wrote:
 >  IMHO, the faster way to do it consists in using builtin map function:
 >  
 >  map([1.0, 2.0, 3.0], lambda x: 4.0*x)

That works better if you follow the map syntax;

  map(lambda x: 4.0*x,[1.0, 2.0, 3.0])

/Mikael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    22-Aug-2001
Time:    10:10:23

         /"\
         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
          X      Against HTML Mail
         / \

This message was sent by XF-Mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Aug 26 22:43:02 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:43:02 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998679338.16044.python-list@python.org> <toee0udndm2ad9@news.supernews.com> <9m8hg4$o9c$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <tojcr24ne6rqcb@news.supernews.com>

"Ng Pheng Siong" <ngps at madcap.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:9m8hg4$o9c$1 at dahlia.singnet.com.sg...
> According to John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net>:
> > "Jesse F. W" <jessefw at loop.com> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.998679338.16044.python-list at python.org...
> > > Should you simulate the parts of the app object that are needed?
>
> > If your class needs a player object for it to make sense, then you need
> > to supply such an object, properly updated.
>
> Not always. You might be able to fake it with "mock objects":
>
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-March/035546.html

As long as it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck
it's a duck. It really doesn't matter whether it's the production class or a
testing simulation thereof, except that using the production version is
likely
to inspire greater confidence in the integrity of the testing effort.

John Roth
>
>
> --
> Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps
>
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 11:25:39 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:25:39 -0400
Subject: How to iterate throuhg dictionary
References: <9kqvaa$tbl$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <3B711D6B.3030902@herts.ac.uk> <oqlmkusl24.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca> <mailman.997279753.25222.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0Qcc7.6096$qm1.59395@e420r-atl3.usenetserver.com>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.997279753.25222.python-list at python.org...
> I just had a quick play with that, and I can't see any difference
> between your example verbatum and simply print d. How does pprint work
> and (I assume it stands for pretty print or something) how should it look?
>

As always, the fine manual is an excellent guide. Since you don't appear to
have one handy, here are a few examples to whet your appetite.

>>> import pprint
>>> d = {1: ['a', 'b', (1,2,3,4), ['e','f', 'g']],
...  2: "J Random User",
...  3: ('tuple', ('with', ('lots', ('of', 'nesting'))))
...  }
>>> pprint.pprint(d)
{1: ['a', 'b', (1, 2, 3, 4), ['e', 'f', 'g']],
 2: 'J Random User',
 3: ('tuple', ('with', ('lots', ('of', 'nesting'))))}
>>> pp = pprint.PrettyPrinter(indent=5, width=60)
>>> pp.pprint(d)
{    1: ['a', 'b', (1, 2, 3, 4), ['e', 'f', 'g']],
     2: 'J Random User',
     3: ('tuple', ('with', ('lots', ('of', 'nesting'))))}
>>> for k in d.keys():
...  pp.pprint(d[k])
...
('tuple', ('with', ('lots', ('of', 'nesting'))))
'J Random User'
['a', 'b', (1, 2, 3, 4), ['e', 'f', 'g']]
>>> pp = pprint.PrettyPrinter(indent=5, width=20)
>>> pp.pprint(d)
{    1: [    'a',
             'b',
             (    1,
                  2,
                  3,
                  4),
             [    'e',
                  'f',
                  'g']],
     2: 'J Random User',
     3: (    'tuple',
             (    'with',
                  (    'lots',
                       (    'of',
                            'nesting'))))}
>>> for k in d.keys():
...  pp.pprint(d[k])
...
(    'tuple',
     (    'with',
          (    'lots',
               (    'of',
                    'nesting'))))
'J Random User'
[    'a',
     'b',
     (1, 2, 3, 4),
     [    'e',
          'f',
          'g']]
>>>

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Aug 28 18:09:09 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:09:09 GMT
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
References: <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <gv4oot0rbcdbc2e3kj16sehubns0utngv6@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:25:51 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <bo2ootg61vmposfvsg8gvrks6eqiuss940 at 4ax.com>:

:I have a question about file locking aspect of the fcntl module for Unix
:systems.
...<snipped>...

related to this question, I have something else that is really confusing me.

I've written the following module, to wrap two different 
platform specific modules:

---------------(begin LockFile.py)--------------------------
'''LockFile.py

wraps WinLock.py and posixLock.py to provide
a single interface for working with locked files
across win32 and posix platforms.
Does not support fine-grained locking.
Recommended for getting a lock on a sentinel file
before trying to read/write data to a separate data file.
'''
import os

if os.name == 'nt':
     from WinLock import lockfile
elif os.name == 'posix':
     from posixLock import lockfile
else:
    raise ImportError, "LockFile is not supported on your platform."


class LockFile(lockfile):
    pass
---------------(end LockFile.py)--------------------------



And here is the posixLock.py module, that is imported on posix systems:

------------------(begin posixLock.py)------------------------
''' posixLock.py

class lockfile
supports the same function calls as
winLock.lockfile
export to LockFile.py: a wrapper module
around the win and posix lockfiles
'''

import os, fcntl

class lockfile:
    def __init__(self, filename):
        if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
            self.filename = filename
        else:
            errmssg = filename + " does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
            raise IOError, errmssg

    def getReadLock(self):
        self.f = open(self.filename)
        self.fd = self.f.fileno()
        fcntl.flock(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_SH)

    def getWriteLock(self):
        self.f = open(self.filename)
        self.fd = self.f.fileno()
        fcntl.flock(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX)

    def unlock(self):
        fcntl.flock(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_UN)
        self.f.close()
        del self.fd

    def flock(self, flag):
        '''flags are:
        LOCK_UN - unlock
        LOCK_SH - acquire a shared (or read) lock
        LOCK_EX - acquire an exclusive (or write) lock
        '''
        if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
            self.getReadLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
            self.getWriteLock()
        elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
            self.unlock()
        else:
            errmssg = "The flag " + flag + " is not implemented for flock"
            raise NotImplementedError, errmssg

-------------------(end posixLock.py)-------------------------


Now, the above seems to run alright on the Linux system that I have access to.
Here is a brief interactive session, which doesn't show much, except 
that at least the calls to the function don't generate error messages:

Python 2.1.1 (#6, Aug 16 2001, 17:02:08)
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from LockFile import LockFile
>>> obj = LockFile('lock.txt')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_SH')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_UN')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_EX')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_UN')
>>>

Now, here's the kicker:
If I change the fcntl.flock calls in the posixLock.py file to fcntl.lockf
class, then I do get errors when I try the same interactive session.
Namely:

[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from LockFile import LockFile
>>> obj = LockFile('lock.txt')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_SH')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_UN')
>>> obj.flock('LOCK_EX')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "posixLock.py", line 44, in flock
    self.getWriteLock()
  File "posixLock.py", line 28, in getWriteLock
    fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>>> obj2 = LockFile('datafile.txt')
>>> obj2.flock('LOCK_EX')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "posixLock.py", line 44, in flock
    self.getWriteLock()
  File "posixLock.py", line 28, in getWriteLock
    fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.LOCK_EX)
IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>>>


So, it appears to be the LOCK_EX flag that is precipitating the error
messages. It doesn't matter whether the call to Lock the file is
on a previously instantiated object, or a fresh, brand new on that
has previously not locked on the file, and the file has not been locked by
anyone else.

I'm quite puzzled, especially since the docs say that lockf is just a wrapped,
the function works fine for flock.

I thought it would be good to use lockf instead of flock, since it appears
to handle more cases than flock does. However, if it generates an error message
every time I try to get an exclusive lock it won't do me a whole bunch of good.

Does anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Aug 24 19:49:18 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:49:18 -0700
Subject: Image manipulation
References: <grodot472k5jrhl75fcf9smrjgm51ngju3@4ax.com> <JJBh7.834$1T5.10505@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <9m6pdm$m4qa$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Erlend J. Leiknes" <nookie at online.no> wrote in message
news:JJBh7.834$1T5.10505 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
> Yup there is =)
> Check out www.pythonware.com
> They have something they call PIL (Python Imaging Library)
> In their tutorial/manual there is a tumbnail example that you could use
> (unless you want to learn something :)
> Btw... is it a way to import only a choosen function from a module/library
> instead of loading the whole shit?
>

do you mean like?

from sys import path

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 28 10:32:15 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:32:15 -0500
Subject: comparing results of fetchall() with a known value
In-Reply-To: <9mg8jr$7mu$1@news.nextra.cz>
References: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>
        <9mg8jr$7mu$1@news.nextra.cz>
Message-ID: <15243.43887.111074.721141@beluga.mojam.com>

    michal> how about this:
    michal> simple_list = map((lambda x: x[0]), list_of_tuples)

Actually, for this particular case you can use string.join:

    >>> l = [('smith',), ('johnson',), ('jackson',), ('jones',)]
    >>> map(string.join, l)
    ['smith', 'johnson', 'jackson', 'jones']



From cliechti at mails.ch  Thu Aug  2 14:00:52 2001
From: cliechti at mails.ch (chris liechti)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 20:00:52 +0200
Subject: Zero division error!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000@seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns90F1CC410A4B6cliechtimailsch@62.2.32.50>

[posted and mailed]

Prem Rachakonda <prem at engr.uky.edu> wrote in
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000 at seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu: 
> Hi,
> I am writing a script for 'cubic spline interpolation' and when there is 
> a float value = 0.004, it is rounded off to zero and I am getting a
> Zero Division error. Is it a python bug?
> 
> x=array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
> 2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104])

you are using the array module, i dont know that but i see in the docs that 
it has s specific data type. have you choosen integers as type? only type 
'f' and 'd' can store decimal fractions.

-- 
chris <cliechti at mails.ch>



From grisha at modpython.org  Wed Aug 22 15:00:51 2001
From: grisha at modpython.org (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:00:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: libpython and position-independent code
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.32.0108221458590.20609-100000@localhost>

Hello there -

I am a bit puzzled by what significance PIC code has in shared libraries.
(This is Solaris 8, but I'm intersted in how this applies to other OS's
too)

While tinkering with libtool, I found that it wouldn't link libpython into
a shared library (mod_python.so), because libpython might not be PIC.

But, I can accomplish this without libtool with

ld -G -o mod_python.so mod_python.o _apachemodule.o requestobject.o \
      tableobject.o util.o serverobject.o connobject.o -lm \
      /usr/local/lib/python2.1/config/libpython2.1.a

Is the resulting mod_python.so unsafe to use somehow? It sure seems to
work just fine... Isn't it supposed to crash?

My searching of the net didn't turn up a lot of useful info on the
subject. The Python compile seems to not have the -fPIC option, so I'm
guessing libpython2.1.a isn't PIC indeed.

If it is indeed a problem, then what is the solution?

P.S. Recompiling Python with -fPIC didn't make libtool any happier
regarding libpython2.1.a - but that's just probably libtool suffering from
the "not invented here" syndrom. BTW, the reason I have to tinker with
libtool is because Apache 2.0 relies on it heavily.

Thanks,

Grisha





From ccb at pan-tr.com  Fri Aug 17 13:29:29 2001
From: ccb at pan-tr.com (chief crazy bLanKeT)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:29:29 -0700
Subject: Novice Question on HTTP Session Persistence
Message-ID: <02a801c12742$2b71af00$ed101dac@hozkanwkst>

Hi,

Is there a document on how to persist objects (like username and login
information for ex.) into the HTTP session ? 

I could not find anywhere. I am also downloading the pythonlist archive 
to search for that info but it's huge 261 mb :)

I would appreciate any help on this. 

kind rgds
--hikmet




From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Mon Aug 27 05:00:50 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:00:50 +0200
Subject: GUI Python interfaces and DataGrids
References: <nbSh7.174251$g_3.29596535@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9m8uc6$jpj$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <3B87B147.A810DCC3@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3b8a0bcd$0$276$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Joseph Andrew Knapka wrote:

> Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

>> Not if you mean a ready-made data-aware grid control like Visual Basic
>> has. You'll have to roll your own. One problem is that Tkinter, to the
>> best of my knowledge doesn't have a grid control at all.
> 
> True, but the grid layout manager makes it extremely easy
> to create one.
> 

Most GUI toolkits will have a grid layout manager where you can easily
make a grid out of arbitrary widgets - but that doesn't offer the 
convenience of a good grid widget, where you can don't have to create
a separate widget for every cell, alternate colours between rows, have 
a scrollbar to show where you are in the grid and things like that.

The PyQt grid is shown at:

http://doc.trolltech.com/table.html

And the wxPython at:

http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin172.htm#wxgrid 
(with a picture at: http://wxpython.org/wxpshots.php)

-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 26 16:34:04 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:34:04 +0200
Subject: Python Library Question
References: <3B80B181.1E8D44A4@us.ibm.com> <3B840645.6E2E3375@ccvcorp.com> <2001714.78ljVUCQOu@lunix.schabi.de> <3B8535CF.C88D575C@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1316790.Dhsi8hcfAM@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> schrub:

>> As you know, there's always _one_ obvious way to do it, but this only
>> way may have just lots of lanes :-)
> 
> True, though I think the phrase was "at least one, and preferably only
> one",
> but that's splitting hairs.  :)

That is the _famous_ phrase - maybe mine gets as famous as well :-)

> Personally, I greatly prefer the original, explicit form--it's much
> easier to read and keep track of, especially when trying to read a
> longish script written by someone else (and as a side benefit, is more
> amenable to reload()
> if that is ever necessary).  So I would try to encourage people,
> especially newbies, to use that form rather than "from x import y",
> and strongly
> discourage "from x import *" of course.  :)  Of course this is
> personal opinion, and there are specific cases where these guidelines
> do not apply, but then, there's an exception to every rule...

Of course, the first solution has lots of advantages (and I usually 
also prefer it), but the second solution has the advantage that the 
code of the OP doesn't have to be changed except the import statement.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 20:21:52 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:21:52 -0500
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
Message-ID: <15225.49312.776671.927400@beluga.mojam.com>

I wrote:

    For those people on python-list who have no idea what this thread is
    about, please be patient.  Once Barry Warsaw assigns a PEP number to it,
    I will announce it to python-list.

Barry worked his magic, and you can now read the current (first) draft of
PEP 266 at

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0266.html

Cheers,

Skip



From cthibaut at club-internet.fr  Mon Aug 13 17:16:52 2001
From: cthibaut at club-internet.fr (Christophe Thibaut)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:16:52 +0200
Subject: pickling code
Message-ID: <3B7843C3.F48D6991@club-internet.fr>

I have the following class

class RefList():
    def __init__(self, keyFunction):
        self._keyFunction = keyFunction
        self._list = {}

    def addRef(self, object):
        key = self._keyFunction(object)
        if not self._list.has_key(key):
            self._list[key] = object

    # ...

wich I use to collect references. A RefList object must be passed the
function or the lambda expression with wich it will obtain the object
unique ref. Id.
RefList collects references of objects from a class C, and must be
provided with a function that can extract a reference key from an object
of class C.

For example with :
class Item():
    def __init__(self, id, n, p):
        self._id = id
        self._name = n
        self._price = p

    def Id(self): #
        return self._id

I can create a reflist of items :
Items = RefList(lambda item:item.Id())

Each time I use addRef with some Item instance, the id is found by
applying the lambda expression on the Item instance. This way RefList do
not need to 'know' more about the items they collect.

So far so good.
The problem is that I want to pickle my Reflists. pickle is Ok to dump
them into a file, but pickle.load refuse to load lambda expressions :

  SystemError: Failed to import class <lambda> from module __main__

I tried to word around this problem by using a reference to the function
rather than lambda expression :

Items = RefList(Item.Item.id)

but then I get :
       pickle.PicklingError: can't pickle 'instance method' objects

I read from the docs that the pickle module doesn't handle code objects.

Is there a solution, apart from writing my own persistance functions or
getting rid of any function ref. or lambda expr. into my classes ?

Thanks you in advance for any tip.
Christophe





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  6 09:43:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:43:30 +0200
Subject: Idiom for consecutive loops?
References: <yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9km9jo010lc@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Harald Kirsch" <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote in message
news:yv2wv4hqtkw.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de...
"""
When programming in C I find myself writing consecutive loops like

  for(i=0; i<lastI; i++) {
    justDoIt(i);
    if( someTest(i) ) break;
  }
  /* the next loop continues were the last one stopped */
  for(/**/; i<lastI; i++) {
    doSomethingElse(i);
  }

The nice thing is that this is safe even if someTest never becomes
true in the first loop.

How would I do that in python, in particular when looping over list
elements rather than just over numbers.

  Harald Kirsch
P.S.: Please no `while 1:' solutions. I hate them.
"""
No problem, since the closest Python transliteration of your idiom is:

i = 0
while i<lastI:
    justDoIt(i)
    if someTest(i): break
    i += 1
while i<lastI:
    doSomethingElse(i)
    i += 1

nary a "while 1:" in sight:-).

There are more Pythonic idioms, slightly farther from C but OK; my
personal favorite would be:

for i in range(lastI):
    justDoIt(i)
    if someTest(i): break
for i in range(i,lastI):
    doSomethingElse(i)

You can use xrange instead of range if lastI is a BIG number, but
I'll confess I don't normally bother even thinking about that:-).


Alex





From bkline at rksystems.com  Sat Aug  4 12:59:33 2001
From: bkline at rksystems.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to pass "byref" parameters to COM object methods
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10108041231370.2905-100000@rksystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10108041258540.2905-100000@rksystems.com>

Sorry, I meant to send this to the ActiveState Python list.  My mistake.

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Bob Kline wrote:

> I don't see any way, reading through the documentation for using COM as
> a client from the ActiveState distribution of Python, to pass an
> argument to a method of a COM object in such a way that the method can
> set the value of the argument.  I expected to see something like the
> ability to create an object of a Variant class, which I would think
> would be the cleanest approach (as opposed to something like passing a
> list with one member), but can't find anything along these lines.
> 
> An example of where such a mechanism is needed is the Execute() method
> of the ADO Connection object.  Microsoft uses the RecordsAffected
> parameter to return the count of rows affected by the operation
> performed.
> 
> I assume I'm just not looking in the right place.  Could someone kindly
> point me to the appropriate section of the ActiveState documentation?
> Thanks very much.
> 
> 

-- 
Bob Kline
mailto:bkline at rksystems.com
http://www.rksystems.com




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 18 00:05:43 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:05:43 -0500
Subject: Is this function attribute weirdness a feature or bug?
In-Reply-To: <3B7DE2D6.FEC47295@alcyone.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0108172303020.19877-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
        <3B7DE2D6.FEC47295@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <15229.59799.844421.278968@beluga.mojam.com>

    Erik> Roy Katz wrote:
    >> I am using Python 2.2a1.  This works ok:

    [ assigning to method attributes fails ]

    Erik> The former is a function (which supports function attributes).
    Erik> The latter is a method, which is a beast of a different color.

For more detail about why assigning attributes to methods is not allowed,
check the Future Directions section of PEP 232:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html

I thought this had found its way into the documentation, but I didn't see it
where I looked.  Perhaps I just missed it.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Aug 15 14:18:06 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:18:06 -0700
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>        <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>        <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com> <mailman.997887028.29027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tnlf54bhh07c7@news.supernews.com>

I'm all in favor of performance improvements, but maybe I'm missing
something here?
I just got back onto the NG after an absence of about 2 weeks, so I'm
not up on the prior discussion.

The issue seems to be that to find a variable, you have to search up the
entire static calling chain, using a dictionary lookup at each level until
you find the
object you've named. It seems like the expensive piece is the multi-level
search
using a dictionary lookup. If this could be speeded up, there wouldn't be
any need
for a "tracking" mechanism, with the attendant complexities.

One way of making this faster would be to change the implementation of the
identifier lookup so that it used an array at all levels. The dictionary
would then
contain identifier/index pairs instead of identifier/object pairs.

Each array entry would then contain a status code, an index and an object
reference.
The status is either "here", "deleted" or "forwarded". For "here", the
object reference
is what you want. For 'forwarded', the object points to the next object in
the chain,
and the index specifies which identifier. "Deleted" has the obvious meaning.

There are some obvious complexities, like deleting an identifier requiring a
search
up the static chain to find out if there is another identifier that has just
become unshielded.

John Roth

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997887028.29027.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Skip> Actually, if I do it right, PEPTest2 would work more like
>
>     Skip>     def PEPTest2():
>     Skip>         m = math.sin
>     Skip>         c = 100000
>     Skip>         while c:
>     Skip>             l = []
>     Skip>             f = l.append
>     Skip>             for i in range(10):
>     Skip>                 f(m(i))
>     Skip>             c -= 1
>
>     Skip> That is, math.sin would get cached at the earliest point where
it
>     Skip> is in scope, which would be before the while loop.
>
> After reading Alex's note on this subject I realized I may have
> misinterpreted what you asked for.  While the PEP266 implementation will
> work about like the manual caching case, note that it will not change
> Python's semantics.  If some other routine modifies the binding for
math.sin
> during execution of the while loop, the PEPTest2 function will see the
> change, just as it would today if you included math.sin lookups in the
loop
> and unlike the code above which statically binds m to the object referred
to
> by math.sin at the start of the function.  That's the whole idea of the
> proposed TRACK_OBJECT/UNTRACK_OBJECT opcodes.
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
> http://www.mojam.com/
> http://www.musi-cal.com/
>




From chris at palefish.co.uk  Fri Aug  3 16:25:06 2001
From: chris at palefish.co.uk (chris hinds)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:25:06 +0100
Subject: Building Python2.1 - LONG_BIT error message
References: <3B697536.7B97EC04@pl.jaring.my> <j4k80ma03o.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3B6B08A2.8070904@palefish.co.uk>

Martin von Loewis wrote:

> Boey Pak Cheong <hlboey at pl.jaring.my> writes:

 >

>>From my limited knowledge, I looked at pyport.h and figured that
>>LONG_BIT must be defined somewhere else since sizeof(long) is defined as
>>
>>4. But I just can't figure out where. Has anyone faced this problem and
>>found a solution or workaround. Please help.

 >

> That's a bug in the glibc pre-release version that was shipped with
> Redhat 7. You need to update glibc, as Redhat also advises you to do.



Hi,

I got exactly the same error trying to build python 2.1.1 on Redhat 7.0 
and afaik I've got the latest RH glibc et al. Has anyone had any luck 
making on RH7.0?

I suppose the fact that it all builds perfectly on my suse and debian 
boxes perhaps suggests that I aught to go and wrestle with bugzilla.redhat?

Any help much appreciated.

Regards,
Chris.



From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 19 22:27:37 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:27:37 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500
References: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Gillou
change the key to something like .gcp
reboot, and see if it works.
Try it with a very simple script:
print 'Content-type: text/html'
print 'testing python cgi'

for the value, try:
"C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"
or
"C:\Python21\python.exe -u %s %s"

"Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:9losla$2mns$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> Hi,
>
> I made this change to the Window registry for this and it does not work
> (http error 500)
>
> Directory
>
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W3SVC\Parameters\Scrip
> t Map"
> Key ".py"
> Value "C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"
>
> Did I forget something ?
>
> TIA
>
> --Gillou
>
>
>
>




From twburton at users.sourceforge.net  Sat Aug 11 13:32:56 2001
From: twburton at users.sourceforge.net (Tarn Weisner Burton)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:32:56 -0500
Subject: ANN: PyOpenGL development status
Message-ID: <91ed7.116$bV6.21539@nnrp3.sbc.net>

PyOpenGL has been undergoing intense development in the last six months by
the PyOpenGL SourceForge group.  For those who aren't in the know, PyOpenGL
is a Python binding for OpenGL.

There are currently two PyOpenGL code branches.  The first is based on David
Ascher's PyOpenGL 1.5.5 and is a collection of hand written C extensions.
About a week ago the PyOpenGL team released what will probably be the last
major release of this branch, PyOpenGL 1.5.7.   This is mostly a bug fix
release but also includes the integration of some array routines into the
codebase.

The second branch is a complete rewrite of PyOpenGL using the wrapper
generator SWIG (you don't need SWIG to build it, only to hack on it).  This
is the 2.0 branch, which is currently in beta, and offers significant
impovements over the previous version of PyOpenGL.  Some of the new features
are:

    1) Complete coverage of OpenGL 1.1
    2) GLU 1.3 support
    3) GLUT 3.7 support
    4) GLE support (Tubing and Extrusion library)
    5) Support for a whole pile of OpenGL, GLU, and WGL extensions (~200)

Also like PyOpenGL 1.5.7, the new PyOpenGL 2.0 includes the Tkinter widget
Togl.  PyOpenGL 2.0 is currently known to run Win32 and Linux but will
probably work on Unix and Mac (volunteers to test this platform?).

To check out either PyOpenGL 1.5.7 or 2.0 see
http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net

For those so inclined, new developers are always welcome, specifically we
would like see PyOpenGL 2.0 running on some other platforms.  Drop me a line
if you're interested!

We are also conducting a *short* survey regarding PyOpenGL usage, fill out
copy if you get a chance and help the development effort!
http://sourceforge.net/survey/survey.php?group_id=5988&survey_id=12087

thanks,
Tarn Weisner Burton




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 14:53:43 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:53:43 -0400
Subject: Emacs? VIM!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108080948310.2034-100000@cc489744-a>  <3B71598C.F55E6873@alcyone.com> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081041000.2138-100000@cc489744-a> <3B7183A2.16217381@noaa.gov> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000@cc489744-a> <MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <mRfc7.55356$WD1.3315059@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:MNfc7.22128$5j7.1962497 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> "Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth" <adam.seyfarth at home.com> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0108081329400.1255-100000 at cc489744-a...
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Ben.Altman wrote:
> >
> > > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I know, (I am) but I thought python.org could provide links to
> (or
> > > > at least tell about) all (or "most") of the editors that have a
Python
> > > > environment.  This would benifet people, like me, who thought for a
> > > > second that I would have to give up Vi for Emacs just to edit Python
> > > > code, following the indenting standards (depressing).  Does anybody
> know
> > > > of another editor that has Python stuff (or a file that enables
Python
> > > > stuff)?  I think I heard that Zeus does...
> > >
> > > What about nedit.
> >
> > Aha, another one, so far we have:
> >
> > Emacs,
> > Vim,
> > Alpha,
> > Jed,
> > Nedit,
> >
> > that's a pretty formidable list!  Any others?
> >
> Scintilla.

TextPad
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/





From volucris at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  3 05:02:53 2001
From: volucris at hotmail.com (Volucris)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 04:02:53 -0500
Subject: wierd asp problem
References: <3b69a492.0@216.0.152.7>
Message-ID: <3b6a688b$0$327$6e49188b@news.goldengate.net>

I think I heard somewhere that you need to indent your entire script:

<script runat=server language=Python >
    class standard_template:
        br = "<br>"
        textColor   = "black"
        bgColor     = "white"

etc...

Of course, I could be entirely wrong. HTH.

--

Volucris (a) hotmail.com
"Eu n?o falo uma ?nica palavra do portugu?s."

"Scott Hathaway" <scott_hathaway at riskvision.com> wrote in message
news:3b69a492.0 at 216.0.152.7...
> I am trying to use Python (the latest version from ActiveState) with ASP
on
> IIS 5.
>
> Here is the wierd problem I am having.  If I use:
>
> <%@ language=Python %>
> <%
> class standard_template:
>     br = "<br>"
>     textColor   = "black"
>     bgColor     = "white"
>
> etc...
>
> Things work fine.  If I try:
>
> <script runat=server language=Python >
> class standard_template:
>     br = "<br>"
>     textColor   = "black"
>     bgColor     = "white"
>
> etc...
>
> I get:
>
> Error Type:
> Python ActiveX Scripting Engine (0x80020009)
> Traceback (innermost last): IndentationError: expected an indented block
> (line 2)
> /asptemplates/standard_template.asp
>
> I need to use the <script sytax because I need to include this class (and
> use it) from VBScript in ASP.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
>
>




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Aug 12 11:06:46 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 17:06:46 +0200
Subject: Confusion about iterator types
References: <vabbnt8mnnc3f2tt1chpf2q4sp406qagbc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j43d6x48s9.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Kirby Urner <urner at alumni.princeton.edu> writes:

>   >>> mylist = [1,2,3,4]
>   >>> myiter = iter(mylist)
> 
> I then get:
> 
>   >>> type(myiter)
>   <type 'iterator'>
> 
> But 'iterator' by itself has no corresponding type in types.  

It sure does:

>>> import types
>>> type(myiter) is types.SequenceIterType 
1

> If I use the isinstance() method, I can confirm that myiter is a
> SequenceIterType, but shouldn't it just tell me that?

What way of telling do you expect? Something about the name of the
type? Watch this

>>> types.DictionaryType.__name__
'dictionary'
>>> types.FunctionType.__name__
'function'

So in general, the __name__ of a type is only roughly related to the
name to which it is bound in the types module.

> Shouldn't type(foo) return a type name that more closely matches its
> type in types?  Why not have?
>  
>  >>> type(myiter)
>  <type 'sequence-iter'>

I personally see no advantage in having it renamed, if you do, feel
free to submit a feature request at sf.net/projects/python. If you can
point to an actual problem that the current name causes, you should
make it a bug report.

> Also, some clarification re the below would be helpful:
> 
>   >>> def f(n): return n*n
> 
>   >>> callable(f)
>   1
>   >>> k = iter(f,10)
>   >>> type(k)
>   <type 'callable-iterator'>
>   >>> k()
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<pyshell#142>", line 1, in ?
>       k()
>   TypeError: object is not callable: <callable-iterator object at 00B6D10C>

It is an iterator that iterates over a callable object; the iterator
itself is not callable. So you are supposed to do

>>> k.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: f() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

An iterator object has a .next() method to retrieve a value. As you
can see, the iterator tries to call f with no arguments, so the
callable shouldn't expect any arguments, either. A meaningful
application of this is

>>> data = [1,4,10,20]
>>> def fetch():
...   if len(data):
...     result = data[0]
...     data[0:1] = []
...     return result
...   else:
...     return "Done"
... 
>>> k=iter(fetch,"Done")
>>> k.next()
1
>>> k.next()
4
>>> k.next()
10
>>> k.next()
20
>>> k.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration

Of course, this isn't a very useful application; Guido thought more of
something like

>>> f=open("/etc/passwd")
>>> k=iter(f.readline,"")
>>> k.next()
'root:x:0:1:Super-User:/:/sbin/sh\n'

> And again, there's no 'callable-iterator' type in types.

Sure is, it is called FunctionIterType. callable-iterator would not be
valid identifier...

Regards,
Martin


From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Fri Aug 17 01:34:31 2001
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 13:34:31 +0800
Subject: Timer in Tkinter?
References: <mailman.998019148.27401.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ivgjnuu54.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

Just setup another after event in the handler.

Isaac.


From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Sun Aug 26 09:42:01 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:42:01 GMT
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net>

On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth wrote:
> 
> > After it didn't work the first time, I immediately recompiled.  ie, I
> > did ./configure; make; sudo make install again and it still didn't work.
> 
> After poking around, I've determined that you have to change certain variables
> in the Makefile in order to compile it against the Python 2 libs and install
> in the right place.

You don't want to tell me which ones?  I guess I'll have to find them
myself...

> > > OTOH, it may be that the PyGTK libraries only exist in your Python 1.5
> > > site-packages directory. Check that, but I suggest the recompile.
> >
> > I imagine that's what it is.  Sorry for my ignorance, but how do I check
> > it?
> 
> In each version of Python, type the following:
> 
> ---
> import os
> print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)
> ---
> 
> Add '/site-packages' to both values and check those directories. However, I
> still suggest doing the recompile.
(compile for the 3rd time!?  I've already compiled the thing twice
with python2)

OK, after the site-packages searching, I found no match for "*gtk*" in
/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/
but lots of matches for "*gtk*" in /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages
Does this mean I copy them over?  I'll try that, I don't think it could
hurt anything...


-- 
     Bender [singing]: ``Jimmy crack corn, and I don't care.
     Leila crack corn, I still don't care. Bender crack corn,
     and Bender is great! Take that you stupid corn.''
               -- Futurama

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 13 03:58:33 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:58:33 +0100
Subject: 2.1.1 global weirds
References: <FkggeoAAfQd7Ewfb@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l35hb03081@enews1.newsguy.com> <fHMWWLAyNTd7EwvM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l3f170adp@enews1.newsguy.com> <XhJ0PWAkCVd7Ewsg@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l40tk01pfn@enews4.newsguy.com> <MB4yXKAheld7EwsX@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l5ql10sbt@enews4.newsguy.com> <6Def3XA5vnd7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9l6jts0tb3@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3cKswWApi4d7Ew7u@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <9l6jts0tb3 at enews2.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:6Def3XA5vnd7Ewrz at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...

>because there's a sys.modules['__main__'] but NOT yet a
>sys.modules['a'] -- so b CAN use a's stuff after import a IF
>b has been imported from the main module.  Clearer now?
>
....
well as is clear you always respond to the current situation whereas I'm
considering a hypothetical. Following one's nose leads to short
sightedness.

>> There's probably some reason for allowing A.B and B to have the same
>> module source and be different modules, but I don't know what it is. The
>
>I've been trying to explain it for the last zillion posts in this
>thread, and I get the strong impression that I'm not getting
>through, so maybe you STILL don't know it despite by best
>efforts -- so, I give up.
...
I give up too, playing dumb isn't useful.
-- 
Robin Becker


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Tue Aug  7 11:41:38 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph A. Knapka)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:41:38 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net>

PEP proposal: add a backtracking Horn-clause resolution
engine to Python!

 :-)

This problem is a two-liner in Prolog:

one_of_each([],[]).
one_of_each([H|T],[H1|Ts]) :- member(H1,H), one_of_each(T,Ts).

It could be quite useful to be able to transparently call
Prolog (or Mercury) from Python. Has anybody done it?
How about Haskell, ML, etc?

-- Joe

Hans Nowak wrote:
> 
> >===== Original Message From Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> =====
> >I have hurt my brain (and those who are unfortunate to sit near me ;))
> >trying to formulate an algorithm for the following problem. I am sure
> >that someone here must be able to help me out, it seems such a trivial
> >problem.
> >
> >I have a nested list structure of the following format:
> >[[2, 3, 4, 5],
> >  [4, 5, 6, 7, 34],
> >  [6, 2, 7, 4]
> >  ....
> >  ....
> >]
> >
> >I want to generate all possible combinations that take one element from
> >each nested list
> >
> >i.e
> >[2, 4, 6, ..., ...]
> >[2, 4, 2, ..., ...]
> >
> >If I knew the length of the outermost list beforehand I could hard code
> >it as a series of nested for loops:
> >
> >i.e
> >
> >for i in list[0]:
> >       for j in list[1]:
> >               for k in list[2]:
> >                               comb = [i, j, k]
> >
> >but I can't figure a way to do this dynamically at runtime, when the
> >outermost list is going to be variable in length.
> >
> >If anyone can help, I'll be willing to sell my boss into slavery and
> >give you all the profit ;)
> 
> I already have a boss, but this code may do what you want:
> 
> #--- begin code ---
> 
> # a test list
> lst = [
>  [1, 2, 3, 4],
>  [5, 6, 7, 8, 9],
>  [10, 11],
>  [12, 13, 14]
> ]
> 
> def permute2(list1, list2):
>     """ Helper function to get the combinations of two lists. """
>     permutations = []
>     for i in list1:
>         for j in list2:
>             permutations.append([i, j])
>     return permutations
> 
> def permute(lst):
>     permutations = permute2(lst[0], lst[1])
>     for ls in lst[2:]:
>         p = []
>         # add this list to the permutations list
>         for item in ls:
>             for perm in permutations:
>                 p.append(perm + [item])
>         permutations = p
>     return permutations
> 
> z = permute(lst)
> print z
> # check length
> assert len(z) == reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, map(len, lst))
> 
> # test another
> lst = [
>     ["a", "b"], ["c", "d", "e"]
> ]
> print permute(lst)
> 
> #--- end code ---
> 
> Disclaimer: Only roughly tested. I don't know if the term "permutations" is
> correct, aside...
> 
> HTH,
> 
> --Hans Nowak

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S


From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Aug 15 01:28:40 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:28:40 -0000
Subject: spawnv
References: None <3B79BD94.4993F25B@algosyn.com>
Message-ID: <997853320.164001@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Olivier Scalbert <olivier.scalbert at algosyn.com>:

| On my Linux box, the following code does not start /usr/bin/gears:
|
| import os
| print os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ())
|
| In fact it print 127 !

   >>> print os.spawnv.__doc__
   spawnv(mode, file, args) -> integer

   Execute file with arguments from args in a subprocess.
   ...

"args" means the argv argument vector for the command, which
starts with the name of the program.  E.g.,

   os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, "/usr/bin/gears", ("gears",))

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From sburr at home.com  Thu Aug 16 16:56:54 2001
From: sburr at home.com (sburrious)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 13:56:54 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org> <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5396362c.0108161256.7d3b7380@posting.google.com>

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> wrote in message news:<96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o at 4ax.com>...
> >>After considering the issue of "who owns Python" for a year or so,
> >>I've come to the conclusion that the people writing the Python
> >>interpreter do...                    ^^^^^^
>  
> >I thought we all agreed and accepted that is not how things are 
> >supposed to work for Python. And that its quite for the good.
> 
> I don't get what you're trying to say. 

I think what he's saying is that your use of the plural (see above)
implies a BOFL (benevolent oligarchy for life), rather than a BDFL.  A
BOFL for life would be deplorable.  There would be endless morbid
discussions about which combination of bus accidents should bring the
oligarchy to an end.

I shudder to think of it.

but-just-in-case-voting-for-guido+tim'ly yours, sburrious


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 15 13:33:41 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:33:41 -0700
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
References: <mailman.997793960.20478.python-list@python.org> <96lintosv5j966334hj45tpeu94iot3m0o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3B7AB275.56BEFEC3@ccvcorp.com>

> We don't
> pay a red cent for Python, and don't really therefor have a right to
> dictate its direction.
>
> C//

Or, alternatively, considering the current Python license:

Everyone has the right to do whatever *they* want to with Python, except
that after they do so, Guido has the right to decide whether it can still be
called Python.

If you don't like the way Python is going, you can grab all the sources and
libraries, make whatever changes please you, and call it Viper (or
whatever).  That right is clearly granted to you by the license.  Of course,
then it's entirely your responsibility to fix any bugs, create any
enhancements, manage whatever infrastructure you want, etc, etc...

The only thing that Guido and PythonLabs have a limited right to, is the
Python name.  They've given away all other rights to the software*.
Therefore, they only "dictate" its direction because we, the users of
Python, allow them to.

Jeff Shannon
Techinician/Programmer
Credit International

* Or close enough to it for practical purposes.  IANAL, and all that, of
course....



From syring at email.com  Sat Aug 11 22:54:58 2001
From: syring at email.com (Karl M. Syring)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 04:54:58 +0200
Subject: cygwin and python21.lib: unresolved symbols
References: <ut4bnt80e5m5negk17s57v5s53gdtac5od@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9l4rsq$76osk$1@ID-7529.news.dfncis.de>

"Les Schaffer" <schaffer at optonline.net> schrieb
> In trying to compile the python extension for cephes using cygwin tools, i
> ran into troubles in the link phase with complaints about missing symbols
of
> the form, for example, PyTuple_Type (_imp__PyTuple_Type).
>
> when i check a variety of python21.dll's using dependency walker, these
> symbols are shown exported. when i check with cygwin's nm:
>
>     nm python21.lib
>
> they are missing. so maybe this is a cygwin problem. they are not ALL
> missing, just some.
>
> has anyone else using cygwin run into these missing symbols?

You need to use the mingw tools version that link with msvcrt.dll, otherwise
you will end up in DLL hell.
Start from the python21.dll:
Extract a python21.def file with nm or dumpbin (caveat: some versions of nm
will say "no symbols"), then
  dlltool  --dllname python21.dll --def python21.def --output-lib
libpython21.a
will give you the proper libpython21.a, works like a charm.

Karl M. Syring



From guido at python.org  Mon Aug  6 22:45:47 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:45:47 GMT
Subject: PEP238, syntax suggestion for floor division operator (not div)
References: <mailman.997132882.31572.python-list@python.org> <FjFb7.77786$EP6.18449847@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <cpk80g4mhx.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> writes:

> Major problem: \ is escape char in strings.  eval('a\b') would not do
> what you expect.

Also, a \ as the last token on a line already has a meaning (continue
on the next line).  Not worth the hassle.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From skip at pobox.com  Mon Aug 13 11:19:25 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:19:25 -0500
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
In-Reply-To: <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com>
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org>
        <MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract>
        <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com>
Message-ID: <15223.61437.705844.253541@beluga.mojam.com>

    Ian> Clearly there'll be an effective tool to identify likely areas of
    Ian> concern, but I hope it won't generate too many false-positives (if
    Ian> that's the correct way round) and zero of whatever the opposite is.

I posted this once.  Maybe once again will be sufficient... ;-)

    import tokenize
    import sys

    class TokenSorter:
        def __init__(self, f):
            self.tokens = {}
            self.filename = f
            self.line = ""
            self.linenumber = 0
            self.lastprinted = 0

        def tokeneater(self, typ, val, (sr, sc), (er, ec), line):
            if self.line != line:
                self.linenumber += 1
                self.line = line
            if (tokenize.tok_name[typ] == "OP" and
                val == "/" and
                self.lastprinted != self.linenumber):
                print "%s(%d): %s" % (self.filename, self.linenumber,
                                       line.rstrip())
                self.lastprinted = self.linenumber

    def main():
        for fn in sys.argv[1:]:
            try:
                f = open(fn)
            except IOError:
                pass
            else:
                ts = TokenSorter(fn)
                try:
                    tokenize.tokenize(f.readline, ts.tokeneater)
                except tokenize.TokenError:
                    pass

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        main()

Run it like

    python finddiv.py *.py

Output looks like

    searches.py(23):     print "passed: %d, failed: %d, pass ratio: %.3f" % (p, f, float(p)/(p+f))
    searches.py(27):         print "%.3f queries per second" % ((p+f)/t)
    velocity.py(1): x = 1/2
    velocity.py(4):     return x/t

so you can easily step through the results with Emacs's next-error command.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Aug 17 09:32:20 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:32:20 -0500
Subject: PEP 266: Optimizing Global Variable/Attribute Access
In-Reply-To: <002c01c1271d$5799da00$d6bd6ac2@zko>
References: <mailman.997834943.22786.python-list@python.org>
        <5rpe7.42284$O8.6453125@news1.busy1.on.home.com>
        <15226.32545.196944.949636@beluga.mojam.com>
        <15226.35834.905706.945509@beluga.mojam.com>
        <002c01c1271d$5799da00$d6bd6ac2@zko>
Message-ID: <15229.7396.689901.330655@beluga.mojam.com>

    gzeljko> It's not only about changes in bindings.  Given x.y.z, if any
    gzeljko> of objects (x, y or z) is obtained by function with side
    gzeljko> effects, using a(=x.y.z) simple is not the same semantic.

The PEP addresses this.  I updated it yesterday.  Read the response in the
Questions section.  It goes into some detail about how this will work.  In
essence, if you track x.y.z, the system will notice changes to the bindings
of x, x.y and x.y.z and respond accordingly.  In fact, the goal is that it
will work no matter how many dots your expression has, though the most
common case will be x.y.

Repeat the mantra:

    Python's dynamic semantics will not change
    Python's dynamic semantics will not change
    Python's dynamic semantics will not change

;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 13:23:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:23:51 +0200
Subject: Feedback welcome!
References: <0i8lnt4q3b027nst6us2hlq4pgd2qvrgqe@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9leb5o02m7f@enews3.newsguy.com>

"david jansen" <david at emurasoft.com> wrote in message
news:0i8lnt4q3b027nst6us2hlq4pgd2qvrgqe at 4ax.com...
> Python community,
>
> I help develop a text editor called EmEditor and we are about to focus

It would have been helpful to mention that this editor is only
released for various Windows versions according to its website.

Therefore, it can only be of interest to people looking for a
Windows-only tool -- which is fine, since Python is excellent
even for Windows-only use (and Linux-only use, etc), but many
of us prefer cross-platform tools such as the amazing SciTE
(190K download for a fully functional editor/lightweight IDE
for Windows, great support for a zillion languages, excellent
Linux versions, AND nothing to pay in any case at all, as well
as all source available for inspection, study, fixing, ...).
EmEditor's download is 800K, btw, not bad compared with
downloading VIM or Emacs of course.


Alex





From jhardcastle at solarc.com  Mon Aug 20 19:28:19 2001
From: jhardcastle at solarc.com (Jeff)
Date: 20 Aug 2001 16:28:19 -0700
Subject: comparing results of fetchall() with a known value
Message-ID: <e33814e8.0108201528.57883ea1@posting.google.com>

Hi - I'm new to Python, and am having trouble reading the results of a
database call using fetchall().  Here's my situation:

I have a database table containing a list of names, and I have a
string variable containing a name.  I need logic that will determine
if my string exists in the database table.  So I have a simple sql
like "select name from employees", and I have a string empname =
'Jones', and I need to verify that 'Jones' is in the employees list
(assume duplicate names are not an issue in this case).

Here's what I've done: I created an odbc connect to the database,
opened a cursor, executed the sql, then set a variable: namelist =
cursor.fetchall().  What's got me stumped is that "namelist" is a list
of tuples with sample data like: [('smith',), ('johnson',),
('jackson',), ('jones',)]

If this were a normal tuple or list, I could easily use:

"if empname in namelist: 
     ....execute code...."

But with the list of tuples, I don't know how to easily do this. My
hunch is that there must be some way to convert that list of tuples
into a list of single values, since I only need the first element of
the tuple like 'jackson' from ('jackson',).  Once I had the list of
single values, my if statement above would work.

Thanks for your help!
Jeff


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Thu Aug 23 19:50:04 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 16:50:04 -0700
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com> <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com> <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <rhgh7.13554$54.522655@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <7x1ym22v6b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> > > Python programmers tend to adopt a philosophy of making code work
> > > rather than making code fast.  Given a choice of doing one or the
> > > other, any reasonable person would pick the former.
> >
> > That is a platitude.  To paraphrase Jon Bentley: whatever computer
> > system you're currently using to surf the web has hundreds of known,
> > but minor, bugs.  If a fairy godmother appeared before each user and
> > gave them one wish, and they had to choose between eliminating the
> > bugs or making their surfing experience 100 times faster, do you
> > really think every reasonable person would decline the speedup?  SPEED
> > MATTERS.  From a user's point of view it sometimes matters even more
> > than correctness.
> >
> Nonsense. In the cases where correctness is important, nothing will
> substitute for it.  

Very true.  But not every case is like that.

> When correctness isn't important, what is?  A program which gives me
> the wrong answers in a tenth of the time is of no interest to me.
> Ask an accountant how much speedup would compensate for an
> unbalanced ledger.

The original claim was "any reasonable person will choose correctness
overr speed".  If you narrow it from "any reasonable person" to
"accountants", it's more valid.

> "Minor bugs" are irritating but acceptable not because they produce
> "slightly wrong" answers, but because sometimes they don't produce answers
> when they should.

A non-answer is sometimes the same as a totally wrong answer.

>But I suppose you think I'm not being reasonable here...

I just mean it's inappropriate to make sweeping statements about what
"any reasonable person" wants.  It depends on the specific situation.
Generalizations are all false <grin>.


From ajs at ix.netcom.com  Tue Aug 14 08:59:58 2001
From: ajs at ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:59:58 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictactors
Message-ID: <001901c124c1$05f1b820$a9e1fea9@carol>

Courageous writes -

>After considering the issue of "who owns Python" for a year or so,
>I've come to the conclusion that the people writing the Python
>interpreter do. This is an open source effort, with many of the
>programmers who are working on it donating their time for free.
>If this group of programmers wants to add to or strip from Python
>a whirly-gig, then so be it. It's THEIR language. THEIR scarce
>and valuable free time. THEIR blood sweat and tears, THEIR
>intellectual capital.

Was there a vote- about which I have not been made aware - among 
THEM on, for example, the acceptance of PEP238.  

I thought we all agreed and accepted that is not how things are 
supposed to work for Python. And that its quite for the good.

ART 





From tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com  Mon Aug 13 06:41:24 2001
From: tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com (Tist Verdonck)
Date: 13 Aug 2001 03:41:24 -0700
Subject: confused about adding elements to a list with list.append(otherlist)
Message-ID: <8e84aae6.0108130241.2163205c@posting.google.com>

I got this problem where I have an empty list and I want to fill it up 
with other lists using a for-iteration:

list = []
data = ['ab','cd','de','ef','gh']
z = len(data)
for x in range(z):
    list.append(data)
    data.append('IJ')

my goal was to get the follwing value for list:
[['ab','cd','de','ef','gh'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ']]

what I got is this:
[['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ'],
['ab','cd','de','ef','gh','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ','IJ']]

I think it must have something to do with me having problems with
python's use of variables (not copying them but making references to them)

could somebody please help me out?

Thanks,
Tist Verdonck
tist.verdonck at mailandnews.com


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Fri Aug  3 09:33:24 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:33:24 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996831127.25254.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6aa536.1749310@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:31:44 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
<mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:

>
>On 02-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
> >  On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST), Mikael Olofsson
> >  <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote:
> > >
> > >On 01-Aug-2001 David C. Ullrich wrote:
> > > >  (Not that it makes any difference here, but
> > > >  since you undertstand the math so much better
> > > >  than I do: Exactly what definition of
> > > >  "complex number" do you have in mind here?
> > > >  The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
> > > >  real numbers".)
> > >
> > >I'd say it's not the standard definition, but rather the standard
> > >representation.
> >  
> >  Well, it _is_ the _definition_ in many contexts. Honest.
>
>In the sense that it is the only representation most people know of,
>yes (people here refers only to those who knows anything about complex
>numbers). 

Um. I know of several representations. This one seems like the
standard one to me, simply because it _is_ the standard definition
in complex analysis. Really: Find a book on complex analysis that
defines complex numbers in some other fashion.

> >  (_Not_ that I see what it _matters_ what "the" definition
> >  in mathematics is! The idea that that should be an
> >  important criterion in determining the way Python
> >  complexes should work seems silly.)
>
>Well, Pythons complex type should - at least approximately within some
>limits - behave as the corresponding mathematical concept. If it did 
>not, it would be totally useless.
>
><snip my words about complex numbers from x**2 + 1 and complex numbers
>from other irreducible polynomials>
>
> >  Something like that could be very interesting, but surely the
> >  sort of thing that could not possibly belong in Python proper
> >  instead of some specialized module.
>
>Absolutely. I was merely pointing out that there are more than one
>way to do it in math as well. But! There is only one obvious way,
>as you are pointing out. However, the obvious way may change from 
>time to time, just as it does in Python. :o)
>
> > > I mean, how many acually uses complex numbers
> > >at all in their programs. Most people still regard complex numbers as
> > >a very obscure corner in math. About only a 150 years ago, when complex
> > >numbers were new,
> >  
> >  ??? Not that it matters, but I woulda thought they'd been around a
> >  little longer than that.
>
>After consulting "Mathematical thoughts from ancient to modern times" 
>by Morris Kline, I must admit that I was not checking things correctly. 
>Mathematicians were experimenting with roots of negative numbers 
>in the sixteenth century, when they still had very strange ideas about
>negative numbers. According to the very same book, many mathematicians 
>were still utterly confused about complex numbers in the beginning of
>the nineteenth century.

The reason I didn't just say flat out that you were wrong about the
date is that while the time that people first started using complex
numbers in one way or another is clearly much more than 150 years
ago you might have been referring to the date at which people
first started giving a mathematically coherent definition of what
these complex number thingies actually _are_. For some time people
were "using" them althought they were just "imaginary"; the exact
date at which complex numbers became "real" is not at all clear
to me. (Could very well be some time around 150 years ago, that
being when a lot of modern points of view started to sort of
appear faintly on the horizon.)

>By the way, the mathematicans of the sixteenth century also had strange
>ideas about irrational numbers, and they had been known for about 2000 
>years at the time. According to the referred book, in the fifth century
>BC, Hippasus, one of Pythagoras' disciples, proved that there exist 
>numbers that are not rational. Citing the book:

I think it's much more accurate to say they proved that some 
"quantities", certain lengths in particular, could not be represented
using the notion of "number" that they had. Saying that they proved
that sqrt(2) is irrational implies that they had a notion of number
that included sqrt(2), and they shpwed that number was not
rational. I really don't think that's an accurate picture of what
happened (although it's what you read in a lot of books.) I think
it's more accurate to say they showed that there was no number
whose square is 2.

Eudoxus' theory of incommeasurables(?) came very close to the
modern notion of "real number", but that was much later than
the Pythagoreans.

>  "The Pythagoreans were supposed to have been at sea at the time and 
>  to have thrown Hippasus overboard for having produced an element in 
>  the universe which denied the Pythagorean doctrine that all phenomena 
>  in the universe can be reduced to whole numbers and their ratios."

This for example is not a bad way to put it: Klein is not stating
that they decided that there was a _number_ which is not a ratio
of two integers.

>I'm glad that I don't have to fear that my colleagues execute me if I
>find exceptional results.

Just because it hasn't happened in a while doesn't mean it can't
happen... my advice would be to stick to unexceptional results
just to be on the safe side.

>/Mikael
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>E-Mail:  Mikael Olofsson <mikael at isy.liu.se>
>WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
>Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
>Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
>Date:    03-Aug-2001
>Time:    09:07:34
>
>         /"\
>         \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>          X      Against HTML Mail
>         / \
>
>This message was sent by XF-Mail.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>


David C. Ullrich


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Fri Aug 31 12:41:52 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:41:52 +0200
Subject: Formatting question : printing numbers with thousands separators ? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:11:57 CDT."
             <15247.36125.220801.298960@beluga.mojam.com> 
Message-ID: <m15crMe-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) wrote:

>     Fred> how do I print 246814345 as 246,814,345 (or 246 814 345) ?
> 
> I'm sure there are more clever ways, but this seems to work:
> 
>     def separate(n, sep=','):
>         ln = list(str(n))
>         ln.reverse()
>         newn = []
>         while len(ln) > 3:
>             newn.extend(ln[:3])
>             newn.append(sep)
>             ln = ln[3:]
>         newn.extend(ln)
>         newn.reverse()
>         return "".join(newn)
> 
>     >>> separate("2342342342344567")
>     '2,342,342,342,344,567'
>     >>> separate("2342342342344567", sep=' ')
>     '2 342 342 342 344 567'
>     >>> separate(5)
>     '5'
>     >>> separate(35)
>     '35'
>     >>> separate(235)
>     '235'
>     >>> separate(1235)
>     '1,235'
>     >>> separate(1235, ' ')
>     '1 235'

How about:

>>> import re
>>> sep_1000_pat = re.compile("(\d{1,3}) (?= (?: \d\d\d)+ (?! \d) )", re.X)
>>> sep_1000_pat.sub(r"\g<1>,", "2342342342344567")
'2,342,342,342,344,567'

Short, but then you need Friedl's masterpiece on regular expression to
understand it...

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From adam.seyfarth at home.com  Sun Aug 26 11:37:01 2001
From: adam.seyfarth at home.com (Adam 'Vonlia' Seyfarth)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:37:01 GMT
Subject: PyGTK - 1.5.2 not 2.1x
In-Reply-To: <15241.575.772954.842109@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <mailman.998792258.12737.python-list@python.org>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108260835340.1368-100000@hex.local.net>
 <15241.575.772954.842109@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261017270.6830-100000@cc489744-a.htsbrg1.ms.home.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Adam> OK, after the site-packages searching, I found no match for
>     Adam> "*gtk*" in /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/ but lots of
>     Adam> matches for "*gtk*" in /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages Does this
>     Adam> mean I copy them over?  I'll try that, I don't think it could hurt
>     Adam> anything...
> 
> Probably won't work, but I guess it's worth a try.  Much of PyGtk is C code,
> which would have to be recompiled for 2.1.

I don't know whether you are the person that has been responding before,
but I heard that 2 variables have to be changed to compile with 2.1.  He
wouldn't tell me which ones, and when I searched for version with case
insensitivity on, I found PYTHON_VERSION = 1.5 and changed it to 2.1.
It still won't do anything with python2.1...

TIA


-- 
     [man singing about how huge the universe is]
     Woman: ``Makes you feel, sort of...insignificant...''
     Man: ``Yeah, yeah...So, can we have your liver then?''
               -- Monty Python::Meaning of Life

   /||  Adam Seyfarth   <http://members.home.net/adam.seyfarth/>  ||\
  /?||  <mailto:cloud at users.sf.net>       Geekcode, version 3.12  ||?\
  \?||  GU d-- s+: a---- C++ UL+>++ P-- L++ E-- W++ N++ o K- w--  ||?/
   \||  O M- V- PE- Y PGP- t 5 X R tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e-- h! !r !y+  ||/



From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug  7 16:01:36 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:01:36 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: rexec questions
In-Reply-To: <9kp4sb0285g@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108072353560.6291-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

>"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
>news:mailman.997127183.21245.python-list at python.org...
>    ...
>> >because there isn't much current interest in controlled execution
>> >of untrusted Python code, so rexec didn't (I think) mature much
>> >after work on Grail more or less stopped.
>>
>> I've heard Mozilla will have Python applets. How will it
>> rexec them?
>
>Do you have an URL?  I'd like to investigate that -- with
>google I can only find it expressed as a wish.  Presumably
>Mozilla could easily restrict Python applets *strongly*,
>by forbidding things very broadly (just as, say, javascript
>code embedded in dynamic-HTML pages is restricted -- it
>can interact with the DOM of the HTML page, and that's
>just about it).

It's a pity it remains vapourware. Probably Mozilla projects
has more urgent things to solve. But for a year already I was
pretty sure Mozilla will support Perl & Python applets...
Was it, as you put it brainwashing?

>> >But there are surely
>> >other interesting applications for sandboxes for untrusted code,
>> >so it may be time to design and implement a rexec2 successor,
>> >building upon rexec to add easier customization of security
>> >(controlled imports of non-builtin modules too, connections
>> >only to hosts on a trusted list, whatever...).
>>
>> That is what Java's Security Manager (sp?) does. This can
>> probably be explained by Python's usage areas. Python is
>> not used in applets extensively (if at all).
>
>Since Grail's demise, I do agree that Python isn't often
>used to run untrusted code; when it is, I guess rexec's
>simple (if draconian) policies suffice, more or less.

Recent outburst of viruses I hope will make software vendors (and OS
vendors too) to rethink security considerations. Modern OSes (IMHO) have
very poor security granularity in them which lead to great chances of
getting malicious code. I read somewhere in some review on the Net that
there need be hardcoded trust-based software execution model with
well-defined bondaries what can do what. rexec is very good model of it
albeit inside Python world. Only network side is lacking...


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Tuesday, August 07, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "All work and no play, will make you a manager." _/




From tbryan at python.net  Tue Aug 14 20:51:28 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:51:28 +0500
Subject: Check URL --> Simply?
References: <d9deee30.0108141754.43d1572e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ldgc4$1nh$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

JS wrote:

> Is there anything that works like this?
> 
> checkLink(url):
>      # If url exists, return 1
>      # If url does not exist, return 0
> 
> All I want to do is check the external links in a html file and log if
> they exist or not. Unfortunately, I am not skilled enough to write
> something myself.

You may also find it interesting to look in the Tools directory of your 
Python (source) installation.

$ cat /usr/local/Python-2.1.1/Tools/webchecker/README
Webchecker
----------
 
This is a simple web tree checker, useful to find bad links in a web
tree.  It currently checks links pointing within the same subweb for
validity.  The main program is "webchecker.py".  See its doc string
(or invoke it with the option "-?") for more defails.
 
History:
 
- Jan 1997.  First release.  The module robotparser.py was written by
Skip Montanaro; the rest is original work by Guido van Rossum.
 
- May 1999.  Sam Bayer contributed a new version, wcnew.py, which
supports checking internal links (#spam fragments in URLs) and some
other options.
 
- Nov 1999.  Sam Bayer contributed patches to reintegrate wcnew.py
into webchecker.py, and corresponding mods to wcgui.py and
websucker.py.



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Aug 28 03:13:11 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 28 Aug 2001 03:13:11 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net> <9cojotgk3dmqr99cfbpeboaemgnudeqdc0@4ax.com> <3b8ac249.624843477@wa.news.verio.net> <oc4motgrortc70p096as7u3hi4ccvl8lt3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uheuslks8.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:

> :Note that the atomicity of renaming is critical to making this work. E.g.,
> 
> Would someone please explain the concept of "atomic" or "atomicity" with
> respect to file operations. Do you mean, that you are (below) showing in
> detail, step-by-step what would happen at each point in the process that
> you suggest?

Atomicity or ensuring that an operation is "atomic" refers to the fact
that the operation in question can be considered a single
uninterruptible unit of activity, at some level of granularity.  The
jargon file says it comes from the Greek "atomos" or indivisible.

For a CPU, atomic often means a single instruction since anything more
than a single instruction can be interrupted.  But you can do stuff
like disable all processor interrupts, and then execute a series of
instructions as a single atomic activity.  Higher level operations can
be atomic as well, at least as when compared to other operations at
the same general level and affecting the same resource.

Particularly when synchronization is involved, the operations being
used as part of the synchronization must guarantee that they cannot be
broken into separate steps or else they may fail to provide proper
synchronization.

This can not always be deduced simply by the top level entry points
into operations (e.g., the functions called, or the instructions
executed), since the operations being called may be formed by lower
level operations that themselves provide separate steps that might be
interrupted.

For example, take a really simple manual synchronization primitive of a
binary value used as a flag to control access to a shared resource.
If the value is 0, then nobody is using the resource, while if 1, then
the resource is in use.  You might write code like:

    if flag == 0:
        # Mark that we're working with the data
        flag = 1

        # ...
        # Use protected information
        # ...

        # Mark that we're done
        flag = 0

The problem, of course, is that something could change in between your
querying the value to see if it's clear (0) and then resetting it to
1.  That operation is therefore not atomic.  Even if a compiler were
to offer a function that could test and set a value in one call, if it
compiled to separate processor instructions to load the current
contents from memory, test it and then write it back, an interrupt
during that sequence of operations could change the memory location.

Since this concept (testing and setting a value) is so common, many
systems - even down at the chip level - implement specific operations
for an atomic test-and-set operation.

In this case, instead of a flag, a file might be getting used as a
sentinel, and the rename operation on the file treated as a high level
way to change the state of that sentinel.  What is important is that
the rename operation not be implemented in such a way as to permit its
activity to be interrupted or interfered with by other filesystem
activity related to the files in question.  Otherwise you couldn't be
sure that after you renamed the file that the result hadn't been
influenced by other filesystem activity (equivalent to changing the
flag value in the above example) and thus it would no longer be
suitable as a consistent sentinel status.

In many (most? I'm not sure) filesystems, rename is an atomic (through
other internal locks or procedures) operation to help ensure the
integrity of the filesystem, at least when renaming is an integral
part of the filesystem interface.  There are other times when it
doesn't hold true though, many of which occur when using networked
filesystems.  Another good odds atomic operation is making a directory
- that's normally my preference if I have to have a cross-platform
sentinel file (it should even work with NFS).  The big problem with
any non-active-filehandle approach (like a file or directory) is that
cleanup is critical if you don't want to block other tasks.  So if
there's any chance the process managing the lock might die, you need
some way to remove the lock if that happens.

> Actually, the win32file.CreateFile does have an option for exclusive
> access. I don't believe there is a specified timeout, but it does have
> the exclusive access part.

It doesn't have the timeout, thus as my suggested code in another post
does, you have to implement a retry mechanism yourself.  This leaves a
small risk of starvation (depending on load and retry mechanism) but
in most cases it's not a major problem.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From just at letterror.com  Tue Aug  7 15:41:39 2001
From: just at letterror.com (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:41:39 +0200
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3b6ff692.1462602@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B7013C1.60403@herts.ac.uk> <3B702B13.F2CC43CB@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <3B704473.2B896C07@letterror.com>

I wrote:

> This one uses list comprehensions (it's based on David Ullrich's version):
> 
>[ ..snipped recursive version.. ]

It turns out a non-recursive version was easier than I thought (also using
list comprehensions):


input = [[1, 2], [4, 5, 6], [8, 11]]

def permute(alist):
    results = [[]]
    for i in range(len(alist)):
        results = [res + [item] for res in results for item in alist[i]]
    return results

all = permute(input)
for x in all:
    print x
print


Just


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug  8 13:49:15 2001
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 13:49:15 -0400
Subject: if-else with '|' operator - beginner's question/problem
In-Reply-To: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>; from lee.r2d2@ntlworld.com on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 06:25:31PM +0100
References: <3B71760B.B7FCBEC7@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20010808134915.A1798@node0.opengeometry.ca>

On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 06:25:31PM +0100, Lee wrote:
> Hi there, I wonder if someone could possibly tell me what is wrong with
> the following statement. I'm extremely embarrased to ask but here
> goes...
> 
> >>>  if (fname[1] == 'a'|'e'|'i'|'o'|'u'):
>     vowel='true'

'|' is bit-wise operator which operates on plain/long integers only.
What you want is
    if (fname[1] == 'a' or fname[1] == 'e' or ...):
or 
    if (fname[1] in 'aeiou'):

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
8 CPUs cluster, (Slackware) Linux, Python, LaTeX, Vim, Mutt, Sc.



From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Fri Aug  3 13:21:47 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:21:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0108030118.275ea332@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108031319470.334-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On 3 Aug 2001, Paul Boddie wrote:

> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.996819245.9680.python-list at python.org>...
> > Hello!
> > 
> > More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> > blanks in ( ).
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Is it new style?  I am sure this contradicts Python Style
> > Guide, but where from this new style appeared? I saw Java programs
> > with the same ugly padding...
> 
> I first saw it employed in Java and C++ programs some time ago. I
> suspect it has more to do with the usage of poor text editing software
> than anything else; that is, software which isn't well-suited to
> editing programs.
> 
 
In my case, I think it has more to do with my wearing bifocals than
with my editor. ( Although, if I had syntax coloring working, I might
not need the extra spaces to see clearly! )

-- Steve 






From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Aug 23 07:54:15 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:54:15 GMT
Subject: NT info
References: <mailman.998523753.4053.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B84EF83.2050604@ActiveState.com>

Kim C Tran wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there a function that I can display a list of users in server and 
> when they last log on ??
> API function may be ??

The win32net module (found in ActivePython, or win32all for the 
reference distribution) will give you what you need.

Page 294 of "Python Programming on Win32" demonstrates that:

win32net.NetUserEnum("\\\\server_name", 2, 
win32netcon.FILTER_NORMAL_ACCOUNT, 0)

Will return the info you need.

Mark.



From john at yates-sheets.org  Thu Aug  2 20:09:32 2001
From: john at yates-sheets.org (John S. Yates, Jr)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 00:09:32 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <9ka118$mj8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <cf0a7.58667$EP6.13873011@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B69A572.8C08B7EB@home.net> <9kcg1b$hei$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <22ojmtopt6hruvm6hajp8eibcpbjnp7hi3@4ax.com>

Disclaimer: I am just begriming to get my feet wet in Python.

I have been programming for 30 years, starting with papertape
on a PDP-8 and a KSR 33.  That means I spent a long time
coding in assembler.  In the late 1970s I joined DEC (Digital
Equipment Corp) and had the joy of "graduating" to a "high
level" systems programming language: BLISS.  The important
point for this discussion is that BLISS is (was?) type-free.

Being released from managing registers and from generating
labels and branches meant I could code faster and tackle
projects I would never have contemplated in assembler.  In
this case the project was a brand new optimizer and code
generator for a VAX Pascal compiler.

While I was building that backend I was also absorbing the
concepts of "strong" type checking.  Regularly I found myself
getting to the end of a debugging session only to discover
that "Gee! If I had been coding in Pascal this error would
have been caught at compile time".  Such bugs frequently
involved argument mismatches, values chosen from the wrong
(simulated) enumeration, etc.

This impression was born out at the end of the project when,
with a now fully functioning Pascal compiler in hand, I set
out to reimplement the project's bug tracking system.  I found
that I regularly did major clean-up on the system with great
confidence knowing that once I got through an error-free
compile the system would work as well as it did before the
clean-up.  In the BLISS work I had never felt that confidence.

Python is not as bad as BLISS since values at run-time carry
their types and these are checked.  But the difference feels
very much a kin the the difference between Pascal or Ada and
old, no prototypes, no true booleans, all enumerated values
are really just ints, K&R C.

Once I get my Python code running I find I am loath to change
it.  The system does not help me find every site that needs to
be updated.  Only runtime execution can do that.  Which places
a greater value on unit testing and coverage analysis.  And the
investment I make in those areas detracts from the rate of code
evolution.

I find that Python supports rapid prototyping but not necessarily
rapid evolution and solidification.

/john
--
John Yates
40 Pine Street
Needham, MA 02492
781 444-2899


From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Sat Aug 18 12:35:45 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:35:45 GMT
Subject: Any comments? My draft of a new PEP.
References: <8mvbl9.on2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal> <YBwf7.55343$MC1.18386642@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <3q5tnt8frcsm04at4d40mtnvt9p3avrkji@4ax.com>

>Could you add 'protocol' to the reserved keyword list?

directive                I like this, as compilers need pragmas sometimes
foreign                   What's this for?
interface                I like this, too, but wonder what the argument is in
                                 favor of _needing_ it
static                      Would rather gouge my eyes out. We already have
                                class- and module- level attributes. The only possible
                                use for it is method- and function- level statics which are
                                bad programming practice and "not very OO," imo.
yield                      Misfortunate word for its evocation of thread semantics;
                                Would have rather had "produce" or "result" or some such.
protocol                What's this for?
abstract                How is this necessary if we have interface?

Personally I would like to add:

declare, strict

Perhaps I should write a PEP. :-)

C//



From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Aug  7 16:08:25 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:08:25 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
In-Reply-To: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA52C2@il93exm04.css.mot.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108080002530.6291-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, <Randy.L.Kemp/at/motorola.com> wrote:

>Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.
>I have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I want to
>replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump off a cliff."
>This is a comic example, but I need to do something similar in real life.
>How can I do this in Python, running on Unix?

You can also get little utility called "rpl" and do the same with C speed,
even recursively. Or was it meant to be excersize of some kind?


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

P.S. Hmm... Somebody told Motorola do not use Python!
Maybe you could also clarify if Motorola is SEI CMM 5
by any chance?
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Tuesday, August 07, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "All work and no play, will make you a manager." _/




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Aug 18 00:54:13 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:54:13 -0400
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <Cqif7.37040$281.6134627@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEINLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Thomas]
> ...
> - For timing, the clock() call in the windows CRT yields rather
>   innacurate data, so I had to use a Win32 call.

Note that *Python's* time.clock() on Windows uses the Win32
QueryPerformanceCounter() call, which has better than microsecond resolution
on virtually all Windows boxes.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 06:27:32 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:27:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108291418570.13703-100000@phd.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290626300.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Oleg Broytmann wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> > I can't think of a time when I've ever seen Python stop. Slow down, yes, but
> > not stop.
> >
> > The truth is, even if there is something you can't do in Python natively, you
> > always have the capability to write a module in C that is callable from
> > Python.
> >
> > So the answer, then, is that Python stops wherever C stops. And I don't think
> > there's a person alive who's EVER seen C stop. I could be wrong though.
>
>    What about OS kernel modules? You can write them in C, but can you do it
> in Python?
>
> Oleg.

DAMN you! DAMN you to HELL!!! :P

;)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Mon Aug 20 02:08:40 2001
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:08:40 -0700
Subject: Additional functionality for PyUnit
References: <efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <to1a93ihjbq7a9@news.supernews.com>

"MikeK" <mkent at atlantic.net> wrote in message
news:efd753ca.0108180619.111f10d1 at posting.google.com...
> Here's a proposed change to unittest.py that I'd like your comments
> on.
>
> I've found unit testing with PyUnit to be invaluable.  I've gotten to
> the point where writing any Python code without unit tests seems,
> well, perverse.  :)  But there's an inadequacy in PyUnit I keep
> running into that I'd like addressed.
>
> I often work with code that requires a large amount of work to set up
> a test for, and the setup code takes an appreciable amount of time to
> run.  Often, several tests that are grouped into a test case all
> require a common setup.  Now, PyUnit provides us with setUp() and
> tearDown() methods that we can define for each test case, which is
> good.  The setup() method is run prior to EACH test method of a test
> case, and the tearDown() method is run after EACH test method of a
> test case.  However, when you have several test methods defined in a
> test case, that all need a common setup for the tests, and the setup
> is both work and time intensive, what you really want is to have a
> different and additional set of setup and teardown code that is only
> run ONCE for the test case.
>
> This would let me run the difficult and long-running setup for a
> series of related tests once.  It would really make unit testing my
> code more doable.

PyUnit isn't magic. For example, it doesn't force your modules to be
recompiled for each test, and it doesn't reimport them, either. If you
really
have to have a setup for a group of unit tests, it's easy enough to do -
just
save a reference to the necessary objects at the module level somewhere.

The instance of your test class will vanish, but whatever setup you need to
keep will remain referenced, and hence, available.

John




From brueckd at tbye.com  Fri Aug 31 10:10:07 2001
From: brueckd at tbye.com (brueckd at tbye.com)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is 0 > None??
In-Reply-To: <3B8F4B03.EFE5E0ED@home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108310656320.26662-100000@ns0.tbye.com>

Hi Manus,

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Manus Hand wrote:

> Now I know that maybe I shouldn't have written code that depends on
> where None compares to the integer values,

Bingo. IMO, it's too bad that it changed and broke your code, but relying
on None comparing to an integer a particular way is Sick and Wrong. ;-)
You're not even comparing apples and oranges; it's like asking if the
color blue is less than my left shoe.

> Would it be possible to get a permanent decision on this one, please?

Sure! How about this: "No integer is equal to None (testing for equality
always returns false), and the results of other integer-to-None comparison
operations are undefined."

The real solution is to fix your code. Readable, explicit code almost
always beats nifty magic tricks.

-Dave




From altis at semi-retired.com  Fri Aug 24 11:01:39 2001
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:01:39 -0700
Subject: ANN: PythonCardPrototype release 0.4.3
Message-ID: <x_th7.175$JO2.85610@news.uswest.net>

PythonCard is a software construction kit (in the spirit of Apple's
HyperCard) written in Python.

You can download the latest release at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=19015

Samples included in the latest release: addresses, conversions, dbBrowser,
dialogs, findfiles, minimal, proof, resourceEditor, searchexplorer, sounds,
SourceForgeTracker, textIndexer, tictactoe, turtle, widgets, worldclock

To see screenshots of some of the samples, visit:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples.html
A description of each sample is included in the docs directory.

PythonCard home page
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

SourceForge summary page
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard/

Mailing list
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users


PythonCard requires Python 2.1.x or later and wxPython 2.3.x. wxPython is
available at http://www.wxpython.org/

PythonCard relies on wxPython, it will support the Macintosh once wxPython
has been ported to the Mac.

PyCrust 0.5.3
PyCrust by Patrick K. O'Brien is included as part of the PythonCardPrototype
releases. If you would like to find our more about PyCrust or get a separate
distribution, please visit the home page at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycrust/


----------------------------
Changes since release 0.4.1 (2001-08-16):

Release 0.4.3 2001-08-23
Andy Todd converted worldclock so that it no longer requires
  an external JavaScript program to run
added samples.txt file to the docs directory to document the
  purpose of each sample application
fixed numerous display bugs in the Property Editor
  including the selection bug which was causing a KeyError
  when using the resourceEditor
resourceEditor changes
  added a Help menu, About resourceEditor... menu item
  View attributes display is now more complete
  Property Editor is shown by default
the Shell is now shown by default for the turtle sample
added addresses sample, which shows the conversion of an
  existing HyperCard stack background layout and data to
  PythonCard. addresses does transparent saves of data and can
  import contacts from Outlook as well.
disabled helpText attribute

Release 0.4.2.1 2001-08-21
Property Editor is now a listener of the WidgetDict class
  so the component list is automatically updated
  as widgets are added and deleted
resourceEditor sample changes
  added Duplicate Widget menu item
  fixed the selection code
  Property Editor now updates correctly
script added to dbBrowser sample to populate a mySQL test
  database

Release 0.4.2 2001-08-20
the PythonCard mailing list has moved to
  http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

the home page has been redesigned and the other HTML pages
  have been validated to make sure they conform to the HTML
  spec. the HTML pages in the docs\html directory can now
  be used locally, they will fetch the large JPEG images from
  the web.
the Property Editor can now edit widget attributes
added getPosition/setPosition and getSize/setSize to Background
added basic mouse events to StaticText, StaticLine, and Image
  widgets
converted Dan Winkler's original PythonCard demo app to
  the PythonCardPrototype framework, renamed it textIndexer
  and made it a sample. It currently requires ZODB to run
  You can use standalone ZODB or ZODB from Zope, see the
  readme.txt in the textIndexer directory for more info
Andy Todd added his dbBrowser sample which is able to browse
  mySQL databases. readme.txt in the dbBrowser directory for
  more info
added a resourceEditor sample, which is the beginnings of a GUI
  resource (.rsrc.py files) editor. see the readme.txt in the
  resourceEditor directory for more info





From dnjjones at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  8 17:46:50 2001
From: dnjjones at yahoo.com (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:46:50 GMT
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical data problem
Message-ID: <eric7.138732$um3.816234@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

I apologize if this is a dupe.  I tried to post earlier and
it appeared not to send out.

I want to be able to dynamically build a hierarchical
set of data.  (Forgive me if I am not using the proper
terminology or if what I mean by a term is completely
different from what the rest of you mean by the same
term.  I am still a very new newbie and am just
converting to Python after a couple of years of perl.
I will try to clarify what I mean.)  By hierarchical,
I mean that there will be parent-child relationships
and that the parents and children should be aware of
one another in their respective relationships (i.e.
the parent should be aware of its children and
children should be aware of their parents).  By
dynamic, I mean that the names in the set of data will
very likely be extracted from a text file or entered
in by a user at run time.  I also mean that the number
of levels in the hierarchy will potentially be
variable and will be defined at run time.  I would
prefer this set of data to be contained in one object.
 Right now, I have the following, which is a three
tier set of dictionaries that are associated with each
other:

################################
cs1_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs1_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}
cs2_cmd3 = {'CLOSE2': 'RESULTS'}
cs3_cmd1 = {'OPEN': 'RESULTS'}
cs3_cmd2 = {'CLOSE': 'RESULTS'}

command_set1 = {'cmd1': cs1_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs1_cmd2}
command_set2 = {'cmd1': cs2_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs2_cmd2,
'cmd3': cs2_cmd3}
command_set3 = {'cmd1': cs3_cmd1, 'cmd2': cs3_cmd2}

test_set = {'TEST1': command_set1,'TEST2':
command_set2,'TEST3': command_set3}
#################################

which I can manipulate with much weeping gnashing of
teeth.  A couple of problems with this (other than the
fact that it is just plain hideous to look at):

1) A child doesn't really know who its parent is.
2) The data is not dynamic: it has to be built from
within the script at design time and not run time.
3) On the dynamic topic, I can't just add a child.  I
have to create kind of a reference in the parent to
another dictionary.
4) It is scattered across 11 dictionaries (even though
it has one base dictionary that acts as the root
parent).

I want to do the above more elegantly, more concisely
and less painfully.  I have read the python FAQ,
searched usenet, searched Google, scoured
www.python.org and have only come up with a few
possibilities for doing what I want to do (such as
metaclasses and acquisition and some virtual file
systems), but I am not sure that they will address the
solution for the problem that I have.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can begin to
attack my problem?  Does anyone have any ideas on
specific methodologies for dynamically named
hierarchical data?  Can anyone point me in the
direction of documentation that might aid me in my
quest?  Does anyone know of similar projects that I
may be able to look at?

Any assistance would be most appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


Jeremy Jones




From bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca  Sun Aug 26 17:35:52 2001
From: bill-bell at bill-bell.hamilton.on.ca (Bill Bell)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:35:52 -0400
Subject: Single Instance of app
In-Reply-To: <998859213.523.3634.l7@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B893378.3973.47D2091@localhost>

"Al Gonzalez" <alberto at mindspring.com> wrote, in part:
> Is there a standard way in Python to determine if an instance on
> application is already running.

I dunno about standard. (Perhaps someone else will comment.) 
Here's one way:

from win32event import CreateMutex
from win32api import GetLastError
from winerror import ERROR_ALREADY_EXISTS
from sys import exit

handle = CreateMutex ( None, 1, 'A unique mutex name' )

if GetLastError ( ) == ERROR_ALREADY_EXISTS:
    print 'Oh! dear, I exist already.'
    exit ( 1 )

from time import sleep
sleep ( 20 ) # simulates process continuing

Open two DOS boxes and launch this script in each one, the 
second within 20 seconds of launching the first, and you should 
see the second instance extinguish itself.

As you have likely surmised the 'A unique mutex name' string must 
be unique to your app so that all invocations of this code try to 
open the same mutex.

Bill



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug  9 18:45:45 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:45:45 -0500
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
In-Reply-To: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <15219.4761.439190.55572@beluga.mojam.com>

    Grant> Why is the first one so slow?  I assume it has to do with
    Grant> repeatedly appending characters to a string.  If so, is it
    Grant> because "s +=" is implemented as "s = s +", where the new one is
    Grant> always an appended copy of the original?  (I guess I would hope
    Grant> that in the case of a string "+=" operation, Python would leave a
    Grant> little spare space at the end of the new string so multiple
    Grant> appends would not have to make a copy with _each_ append.)

Repeat the mantra: "strings are immutable, strings are immutable, strings
are immutable". ;-)

    Grant> Also, I tried writing something like this with a list (which are
    Grant> presumably more suited to being appended), but then I realized
    Grant> that I didn't know how to write the contents of a list to a file
    Grant> as a stream of bytes.  There's probably a simple way to do that:
    Grant> what is it?

    >>> l = ["abc", "def", "@", "NOSPAM", ".foo", ".org"]
    >>> s = "".join(l)
    >>> print s
    abcdef at NOSPAM.foo.org

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From memcy811001 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 16:27:05 2001
From: memcy811001 at yahoo.com (1/2 Off E-mail Sale)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:27:05 -0800
Subject: Targeted E-mail Sale
Message-ID: <200108120514.LAA13977@WANSERV.>

                  50% OFF Bizop Seekers E-mail Sale

For the website, click below: 
http://www.geocities.com/bayb1133812


-->Do you want to start getting REPLIES for your offer?
-->Do you want those replies to be from someone who's
   actually interested in what you have to offer?

**Visit our site to get the MOST responsive bizop e-mail leads
  available!**                     


For the website, click below: 
http://www.geocities.com/bayb1133812
or mailto:emcy72501 at yahoo.com?Subject=MoreInfo812


 10,000 e-mails for only $5- FRESH 7-31-01!
 25,000 e-mails for only $10
 50,000 e-mails for only $17
100,000 e-mails for only $25
250,000 e-mails for only $35

**Not an experienced direct mailer? We can send your ad for you!
SEE SITE for more details and pricing!

New Special~
FREE Stealth Mass Mailer with orders of 250,000!
+ 5 FREE Bulletproof mail servers!

NEW::::::: Check our our Ulimate Marketing CD!:::::::::: 
	       E-mail for the site details!

- SPECIALS! -

**FREE with EVERY order:
  Demo of ListMan e-mail manager software 

**Orders of 50,000 or more:
  FREE copy Express Mail Server to send your messages!  
	-This is not a demo but a permanent license for the 	software!

**Orders of 100,000 or more:
- Resale Rights for EMS! -->You keep 100% of the profits
- InfoDisk  with 1000+ Money Making Reports
- CheckMAN software

_______________________________________________________________
To be removed from future mailings: 
mailto:memcy811001 at yahoo.com?Subject=Remove 
812b






From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Aug 14 16:10:57 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:10:57 GMT
Subject: why no ++?
References: <9kf46r014ba@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.997122491.16083.python-list@python.org> <9kmt1n01r0g@enews4.newsguy.com> <3B75B3C0.965E6E2E@ndh.net> <kv9bnts4r490khlfv4fpenhshbe3j8pqlb@4ax.com> <Xns90FC57863FF5michaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <Xns90FC6932FB561duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <Xns90FD5728D9CDAmichaelrcpcouk@194.238.50.13> <9lan1301822@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9nj1eh.5k4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:20:50 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:

> So now consider:
> 
>     y.a = b,c,d = x.e = wower()
> 
> How would you like to rewrite _this_?-)  There is *NO* rewrite
> that ensures constant semantics except by introducing _another_
> temporary variable -- *yecch*!-)

y.a, (b,c,d), x.e = [wower()] * 3

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Tue Aug 21 19:43:28 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:43:28 +0100
Subject: Checking for new version of a program
References: <mailman.998439872.24721.python-list@python.org> <slrn9o69vq.9vi.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <9lvkee$cbk$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

>What would be a good place to read about signatures and such?

http://razor.bindview.com/publish/papers/os-patch.html

is one place to start.  Here's another

http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/strong_distro.html

Warning: I've only skimmed these documents, not read them
enough to see if they really make sense.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Wed Aug  8 18:44:13 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:44:13 +0200
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081815201.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <00cd01c1205b$daf497a0$68bd6ac2@zko>

From: Steven D. Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU>
> On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, gzeljko wrote:
> > Is 'from __future__ import generators' really
> > necessary ?
> 
> Only if you want to use generators. 
> Iterators work without "from __future__ ..." 
> but yield is just a normal id to the grammar instead of a keyword
> without it. 
>

Yes I know, but ...

Is 1 'yield' worth 100000 'from __future__ import generators' ? :)

gzeljko
 
> -- Steve Majewski
> 
> 
> 





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 07:06:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:06:49 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996540777.8399.python-list@python.org> <pso66c9rpo8.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <9k95fh0q0n@enews2.newsguy.com> <psoy9p34lvy.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>
Message-ID: <9kbc8a02eit@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Christopher Barber" <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message
news:psoy9p34lvy.fsf at jekyll.curl.com...
    ...
> > > did spend more time than I would have liked writing tests to detect
type
> > > consistency.
> >
> > Probably no more time than I spend cursing [expletive deleted]'s who
> > write type-tests. ...
> > "BEHAVES-LIKE-A" (i.e. IS_ADAPTABLE_TO_PROTOCOL) is what, at most,
> > one SHOULD be testing (if anything).
>
> Sure, but it is often much easier to document that var x must be a foo
than it
> is to say that it must provide some arbitrary set of attributes.  This
after

Which, again, boils down to looking for your keys under
the streetlamp, because it's too dark over there where
you actually dropped the keys...?-)

> all is one of the point of types: to create a shorthand for sets of
properties
> that you want to go together.

That's what I'd call a PROTOCOL (or, but the term carries
connotations that might be unwarranted, an interface), and
the very reason I'd *LOVE* the protocol-adaptation PEP to
become a reality.

You see, one doesn't normally need just a boolean yes/no
answer to the question "'IS' wenk a pleep?" -- rather, one
needs a 'handle' for wenk that DOES satisfy protocol pleep,
or the information that no such 'handle' can be obtained
(wenk is not *adaptable to* protocol pleep).

That's how one does it in Java -- with the goofy syntax
    (pleep)wenk
returning a pleep or raising an exception; in C++, with
the syntax dynamic_cast<pleep*>(wenk) [or pleep& if you
want an exception in case wenk can't peel]; and, best of
all object-models I know, in COM (syntax depends on the
language, as COM is a multi-language object-model, but
semantics rely on calling a specified protocol adaptation
method of wenk called QueryInterface).

All of these approaches have one serious defect from
my POV, and another one from yours.  From yours: they
can't really be turned into *compile-time* checks!  A
function receiving argument wenk has no way to tell at
compile time whether wenk is adaptable to pleep in
the general case (except, in theory, by examining all
the source code for the program: but even then one
cannot normally tell without solving the halting
problem:-).  In order to ENSURE all checks pass at
compile-time reliably, a language must impose far
too many complications and constraints.  In fact,
neither Java nor Eiffel really do ensure that (they
have loopholes due to covariance -- Java doesn't
explicitly support covariance, but its arrays in
fact do, and so you can get typeerrors at runtime),
let alone C++ with its unconstrained pointers.

Personally, I don't much mind what can be done at
compile time and what can't -- if *sometimes* the
compiler is able to hoist some check or computation
up to compile time, so much the better, but I don't
want to chafe under unreasonable restrictions to
help the compiler writers do that (and still fail
to do that everywhere anyway, again see Eiffel and
Java's covariance typing-issues:-).

So, the defect of Java's casts, C++'s dynamic_cast,
and even COM's most powerful QueryInterface from MY
viewpoint: they ALL focus on object-identity!  You're
supposed to be able to 'cast back' (or QI back) to
the original interface-pointer (or other expressions
of object-identity).  This obsessive focus on identity
would be interpreted as a mental illness in many
contexts (at least by therapists of schools harking
back to Korzibski's General Semantics)...;-).  Of
course, identity DOES matter in a few of these cases
(COM focuses on it for specific technical reasons
having to do with remoting, for example), but most
definitely NOT for everyday programming issues.  If
you look at COM's vast array of 'service' interfaces,
you'll see it has grown one to address exactly this
need -- IServiceProvider basically duplicates the
builtin QueryInterface *except* that it can return
a pointer *without* identity-constraints.  I would
far rather have unconstrained protocol adaptation as
the normal modus operandi -- if and when one does
need to worry about identity, in a few rare and
limit cases such as remoting and persistence, hey,
that's what id() is for.

All of which makes the protocol-adapdation PEP a
real jewel in my eyes... except for the little
detail that it doesn't seem that anybody who really
matters cares much about it, so it just stays
parked there.  Oh well...:-(.


Alex





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Aug 25 10:16:58 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:16:58 +0100
Subject: Finalization problems
References: <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fvKW8KAaN7h7EwN9@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <CTWRzJAoQnh7EwtC at jessikat.demon.co.uk>, Robin Becker
<robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>A colleague reports finalization problems with a particular extension
>running under 2.1.1 and Solaris. The problems don't occur with NT. he
>reports sigabort right after the cleanup __builtins__ and before the
>cleanup ints. Both Python-2.1.1 and the extension are built using gnu
>tools.
>
>The distinguishing feature is that the extension is used more than once
>in the cases when the abort occurs.
>
>Not having access to the corporate Solaris machine I can only ask what
>sort of things might cause this eg do I have to search for all known
>python variables looking to see if they are correctly ref counted etc?
>
>Are there any things I can try with the NT version?
OK I think after some hackish reference count exercises I found a single
stolen Py_None. I guess that could easily appear at finalisation time
and blow up the world.
-- 
Robin Becker


From markus at schabi.de  Thu Aug  2 11:45:05 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:45:05 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996686223.23641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1657948.MTVartNDX9@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> schrub:

>>   http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html
> 
> I'm unable to access this document.  I presume this is related to the
> hardware problem which is rumored in this list :-).  Would someone
> have
> an alternate URL?  Or a copy that could be forwarded to me?

Just take one of the mirrors and add the path, for me, 
http://sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/python/2.2/descrintro.html 
works just fine.
 
markus#
-- 
Defend democrathy and freedom!


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 22 02:16:21 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:16:21 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
In-Reply-To: <3b82c380.100866027@wa.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEDILHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bengt Richter, on the marshal format for longs]
> ...
>  (a little-endian string made from the internal int chunk count
> and the following n chunks of two bytes each holding a little-endian
> short 15-bit number)
> ...
> BTW, the marshaled long format is apparently platform-dependent,

That's not apparent to me <wink>, and it's intended to be
platform-independent.  marshal is what Python uses internally to create .pyc
and .pyo files, and they're routinely transported across platforms.

"15" is a constant across all platforms, and endianess is forced by
reading/writing one byte at a time.




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Aug 29 04:19:57 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:19:57 +0200
Subject: Why use Python?
References: <Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160@news.pacbell.net> <9mi1uv$1t83@news1.gtech.com>
Message-ID: <9mi8je0rf1@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Peter Milliken" <peter.milliken at gtech.com> wrote in message
news:9mi1uv$1t83 at news1.gtech.com...
> Well there you go - you at least have some comparision between Python and
> other languages. So lets turn the question around - Why would you want to
> use VB for Windows programming instead of Python? I haven't seen any
> comparisions between VB and any other language.

As a language, VB's rather a mess -- a bit less of a mess
in the new version (VB7 aka VB.NET), incompatible with all
of the old ones (current VB6 and earlier), but still a
mess.  It doesn't have a real small core of unifying
concepts, the syntax rambles all over the place, etc --
it's chaotic and largish, but not very expressive, as
opposed to small, tight, elegant, clean and amazingly
powerful like Python.

What VB has going for it are excellent *tools* and good
integration in important environments.  A beginner who's
"just using Word" can initiate "recording a macro", just
manually perform a task he or she would like to automate,
and get a working snippet of VB generated -- it won't be
very good VB, but it will be a start, and tweaking that
macro into doing just what the beginner wants will be a
good first approach to the language.  Graduating to some
more ambitious tasks, the beginner will find integrated
tools to paint GUI's and attach code to handle events,
connect to databases, write webpages with code and DB's
behind them, and so on, and so forth.  The beginner may
not get a good conceptual grasp of what's going on (quite
likely, considering that conceptual consistency is NOT
a VB strength:-), but things will sort-of-work and the
psychological effect of the tools "holding your hand"
may help.  Becoming more ambitious yet, the beginner may
start including variable declarations, "just like all
the big boys say you should", and even get "a real native
code compiler, WOW!" -- never mind that "native code"
won't run any faster than a bytecode-interpreted version,
and the EXE won't be standalone anyway as it needs huge
runtime DLL's -- the *buzzwords* are all there.

There are some strong technical points underlying all
this -- particularly, the COM/Automation architecture,
truly Microsoft's best technical output ever (finally
being well imitated in Mozilla's XPCOM, maybe too late).
The weakest link in this powerful chain of tools is,
alas, the rather wretched VB language -- although,
again, it IS a bit better (a bit closer to Python:-)
in VB7 (backwards compatibility is apparently not a
real constraint for Microsoft -- lucky guys:-).  But
the "VB Experience" as a whole is not so much about
the language itself, as about the COM/Automation/ActiveX
(&c) architectures, AND the easy, hold-your-hand tools.


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Aug  4 18:35:41 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:35:41 -0400
Subject: Python Source Reformatter?
References: <ve9omtgkm22rseoibo0fkfnsnlp02e0j1r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uJ_a7.38418$WD1.2088451@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Youir best solution to this problem would probably be to use a text editor
with block indent/outdent capabilities. There's a redent.py program, but I
think it retains the existing indentation level rather than computing what
level it's at and using the appropriate leading space string.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


"David Fuess" <fuess1 at home.com> wrote in message
news:ve9omtgkm22rseoibo0fkfnsnlp02e0j1r at 4ax.com...
> I put together a single source by copying in only the parts I needed
> from many test / example programs [mostly mine :-)]. Unfortunately,
> there are indentation variations among the various parts. While it
> runs fine, it makes editing difficult because the indent scale is
> constantly changing. Does anyone know of a reformatter for Python that
> can put everything on the same indent scale?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave




From ignacio at openservices.net  Sun Aug 26 17:43:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:43:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
In-Reply-To: <rjpiot8fmtndj50bps6qljvktf6pecv21h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108261739310.28253-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> LOL. Heh, now I'm getting confused. VC++ isn't going to help me with
> using bsddb on my webhost. That's a Linux machine.

Oh heck, you shoulda just said that from the outset. find out what version of
glibc ('ls /lib/libc-*') and what processor ('uname -a') they have and I'll
build you a bsddbmodule.so against Sleepycat 3.3.1 that you can use.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>





From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Aug  8 14:13:30 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:13:30 GMT
Subject: mapping a method to a list?
References: <3b716759.126576344@127.0.0.1> <f9ec7.101122$Cy.14802622@news1.rdc1.az.home.com> <3B71722F.77E461EB@letterror.com>
Message-ID: <ejfc7.101437$Cy.14826116@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

Oops!

That '?' addled my brain...

-tim

"Just van Rossum" <just at letterror.com> wrote in message
news:3B71722F.77E461EB at letterror.com...
> Tim Hochberg wrote:
>
> > Or did you mean something completely different?
>
> I think he meant to map a method of the items in the list, as in
> the example I just posted.
>
> Just




From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Tue Aug 14 15:41:15 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:41:15 -0500
Subject: Python CGI and Jave Server Pages (JSP)
Message-ID: <tnivoil464c658@corp.supernews.com>

Hi to the most esteemed Python People
I work as a programmer and we are working on a web project.  I am pushing
for Python.  The web project calls for logging into an Oracle database,
uploading and downloading files depending on the login information,
processing uploaded files, and a host of million other things.  I had
already done the basic functionality all in CGI using Python.  Someone else
here is calling for the use of JSP.  So, the question being asked here:  Why
do I want to use Python and NOT JSP?  I simply can not just say:  Well, it
is an issue of bias, and I know Python and like it, and can stand neither
JAVA, nor JSP although I do not know anything about JSP.
Did anyone here deal with JSP in addition to Python?  If yes, how could you
convince a skeptical management to use Python and not JSP?
We use an IPlanet web server running on Sun Solaris by the way.
Thanks for any information,
Maan




From spex66 at web.de  Fri Aug 31 09:48:05 2001
From: spex66 at web.de (spex66)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:48:05 +0200
Subject: Can I build a dictonary with a list-comprehension?
References: <9mnpst$198$1@news2.iabg.de>
Message-ID: <9mo4il$1mf$1@news2.iabg.de>

found in PLEAC (pleac.sourceforge.net)

dict = {}
LIST = [...] #What you want
[dict.update({x: 'spam'}) for x in LIST]

simple and effective
thx PLEAC project!

(=PA=)


"spex66" <spex66 at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9mnpst$198$1 at news2.iabg.de...
> Hi there,
>
> I ask mysel, if there is a tricky (or simple) way to build a dictonary
with
> the list-comprehesion-style:
>
> [x for x in y]
>
> thanks for any hint
>
> Peter
> (=PA=)
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 11:45:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:45:43 +0200
Subject: counting occurrences
References: <mailman.997165211.14595.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kp2g30253q@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997165211.14595.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> Fear of that kind of bloat held up the introduction of dict.update() for
> years:  in d.update(e), in case of duplicate keys k, most apps seem to
want
> e[k] to "win", but some want d[k] to triumph, others would prefer an
> exception get raised, and still others want the new d[k] to be (d[k],
e[k])
> or [d[k], e[k]] or one of those swapped.  Guido was in a rare mood when he
> said "oh, screw it -- e[k] wins".  You might be able to sell

I guess that must be part of what makes him a great language
designer and me a poor one: faced with such a situation, where
several slight variations make sense, MY instincts would be
to add a second optional flag parameter -- HIS are to block
everything for years and finally choose ONE alternative, no
options allowed.  When looking at it "in the small", my
instincts may make sense to most designers -- but, add half
a dozen option-flags to each of a few hundreds analogous
situation in a language and its libraries, and I suspect my
option-giving instincts would have led to substantial bloat,
while his have kept things reasonably streamlined and
simple, without in the end substantially reducing the power
actually made available to programmers.  Live and learn...!


Alex





From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 22 12:58:59 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 09:58:59 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <915a998f.0108220858.3f062acd@posting.google.com>

While on this subject, would it be an idea to make built-in types
callable, so that you just call an object without caring whether it
was a function/method or a simple type? Thus:

x = 10

def y():
    return 10

x()
y()


Hamish Lawson


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 00:53:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:53:04 -0400
Subject: Progress on missing features?
In-Reply-To: <3b796f6f.5731831@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENCLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Dinu Gherman]
>>>  - class methods
>>>
>>> The first two could be considered quite important for making
>>> the language more complete in terms of object orientation.

[Courageous]
>> If you reframe your thinking and do module-level methods instead,
>> treating a module as an object, you will have achieved everything
>> here that you ever need to achieve with a class method.

[Dinu Gherman]
> That sounds like a lot of people need to spend a lot of
> time to think how to implement something that is more or
> less a straightforward concept in other OO languages in
> Python.

Which concept is that?  "class method" means entirely different things to
Smalltalk and C++ programmers, for example.  2.2 supports both meanings more
naturally than in 2.1.  If you're familiar with only one of the meanings,
here's your chance to learn just how "straightforward" a concept the other
one really is <wink>.

modules-are-powerful-too-ly y'rs  - tim




From shezafd at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 10:03:42 2001
From: shezafd at yahoo.com (Daphna Shezaf)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 07:03:42 -0700
Subject: Not installing interpreter on local machine
Message-ID: <54c26728.0108030603.5d4ed4b7@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am a python enthusiast and have been programming around in python
for sometime. I came up with the idea to use python for internal
scripts we need in my company (for example: build scripts).
That's nice (I think), but it will be hard to convince people that
python interpreter should be installed on every machine around.
Do you think it will be possible to install the interpreter on a
single server, so that people will actually run their scripts on this
server? Is it possible (and how), for the script to run a program on a
different machine (We're using windows 2000 LAN)? Any other helpful
hints?

Thanks,
Daphna


From fugate at lucent.com  Tue Aug 14 16:42:04 2001
From: fugate at lucent.com (Cris A. Fugate)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:42:04 -0500
Subject: eof?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com>

Can't find a convenient way to check for the end of an input file.
I would like to say something like this where fh.eof would return
a boolean value for the eof condition. How is this done, or is
there another way? TIA

fh = open("file", "r")
while (not fh.eof):
   fh.readline()

**********************************************************************
Cris A. Fugate          Lucent Technologies, Robust Process Automation
fugate at lucent.com       http://ihgpweb.ih.lucent.com/~fugate
630 713-8255            Sponsor of the lucent.lang.tcl newsgroup




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Tue Aug  7 15:47:28 2001
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:47:28 +0100
Subject: execfile environment??
References: <mailman.997196650.29307.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B7045A8.4534AE52@accessforall.nl>

Jason,

you wrote:
> 
> I am trying to call a module with the execfile function. Is there a way to
> specify the paths to search for the module I am calling?
> For example:
> 
> def call_module(module_name):
>         # addition checks required before executing
>                 print "Executing "+module_name
>                 execfile(module_name)
> 
> When I call this function, I want it to find "module_name", i.e testing.py,
> within the sys.path. Is this possible, or do I have to include the entire path
> of module_name when using execfile??

You need the full path name for execfile().
I don't know whether it also works relative to the working directory
of the interpreter.

This means you can do evt. sys.path searching yourself.
It's quite straightforward with the os module.

The call_module() name might be a bit confusing. And since 
you are talking about execfile environment, consider the following:
- the module will run in the globals/locals passed to execfile, or the 
  globals/locals active at the execfile call, so
  in case you want __name__ to be set to sth
  like '__main__' you'll have to provide this in a
  (freshly copied) dictionary argument to execfile().
- already loaded modules will not be reloaded (sys.modules).
- sys.argv is not affected by execfile().
You can control all of these.
Evt. use try/finally to restore the sys.* things to their previous value
as needed.
Finally you might want to catch all exceptions
thrown by execfile(), and interpret or return sys.exc_info().

As long as exceptions are not guaranteed to be subclasses of Exception,
you might use sth like:

try:
   execfile(...)
except Exception, e:
   # do what you think needs to be done.
except:
   # deprecated exception caught: inform the user of lost karma points.
 
Have fun,
Ype

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Aug 29 15:10:31 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:10:31 +0100
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
References: <20010829072809.B27471@glacier.arctrix.com>
 <mailman.999102946.7659.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gX3ZihAn4Tj7Ew4c@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.999102946.7659.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio
Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> writes
>SO...
>
>I propose that we make the following changes to how Windows C extensions are
>built:
>
>1) make some sort of 'thunking.h' or whatnot that contains global function
>     pointers for 'PyMem_Malloc', 'PyMem_Free', etc., and
>2) make a pythonDLLX.Y.lib that contains a DllMain() that thunks the functions
>     from the application (which has previously linked python.X.Y.lib) and
>     sets the global variables in thunking.h.
>
>That way the behaviour of the Windows C extensions matches that of the Unix C
>extensions and pythonXY.dll can be done away with.

now that is really baaad :)
-- 
Robin Becker


From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Aug 16 12:02:41 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:02:41 +0100
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com> <mailman.997845263.23320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9nnrkv.47f.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:12:35 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw <barry at zope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> "S" == Stephen  <shriek at gmx.co.uk> writes:
>
>    S> I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and
>    S> the numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages
>    S> with attachments.  I've found various solutions, some of which
>    S> no longer seem to work, and was quite surprised how this
>    S> seemingly banal task has caused so much trouble.  However, in
>    S> Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into the
>    S> actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way,
>    S> they display when the recipient views the message.  Just how
>    S> does one compose a message like that with Python may I ask?
>
>It's actually fairly easy using mimelib.  Note that
>
>    http://mimelib.sf.net
>
>contains a pretty up-to-date description of the library API, but it is
>missing an examples section.  That's on my to do list.

I think an examples section would be a very good idea. 

I also think the library would benefit from being conceptually oriented
from the user's point of view rather than the implementer's. I'll give you
an example of what I mean:

To create a new Message (object representation of an email message)
from a string containing the message one does:

msgStr = """From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk
To: barry at zope.com
Subject: this is a message

...body of message here...
"""

myParser = mimelib.Parser()
msg = myParser.parsestr(msgStr)
# (msg) is a mimelib.Message

What's wrong with that? The user has a string, and wants to make a
Message from it. He should be able to say:

   msg = mimelib.makeMessageFromString(msgStr)

and mimelib should sort out the details itself. Instead, the user is
forced to think in terms of the implementation detail of how mimelib
parses text. Note also that this is documentted under the heading
"Parsing MIME documents" which wants to be changed to something like
"Parsing Mail Documents".

I realise that in itself this isn't that important, but I think that
most of the python libvraries would benefit if when defining the 
library's interface, the developers thought in terms of how the users
are going to use it, *not* in terms of how they are going to implement 
it.

(Having said this, I realise that I've made the same mistake in several
places in my mailheader[1] library; these mistakes will be corrected in 
the nextb release).

Incidently, did you look at the mailheader.py code I sent you? Did
you find any ideas in it worth using?

>    S> Also if I read between the lines of some posts in the archive,
>    S> is it safe to assume that mimelib is the way to go for future
>    S> MIME manipulation?
>
>That's the intention.  Guido has given me the green light for adding
>mimelib to Python 2.2's standard library, and I intend to work on that
>over the next several days.  I've got a few bugs and improvements to
>work out, and a little bit more documentation to right, but I think
>it's quite useful as is.  I also think it has a flexible enough
>architecture to provide room for expansion as time goes on.

Is it going to be RFC2822 compliant?

>One question though: while I original wrote mimelib to handle the
>MIME-specific tasks, it really is shaping up to be a general mail
>handling library.  "mimelib" might be the wrong name for it.
>"maillib" and "emaillib" seem inelegant, and "messagelib" too
>generic.

Mail messages and usenet messages are rather similar. Similar enough
that they ought to be represented by the same class (or perhaps, 
different subclasses of the same superclass). This way, once a 
Python programmer has learnt how to do mail messages, they won't
need to separately learn how to do news messages.

If one library covers both, then messagelib seems an approprate name.
(Or mailnewslib, perhaps, even though it is unwieldy).

Also, consider smtplib and nntplib. Successors to these should be
able to communicate using mimelib.Messages as their parameters.

> So while mimelib will be able to replace even rfc822.py (at
>least at the API level initially, perhaps later at the implementation
>level too), we may just have to live with the misnomer, unless someone
>can come up with a good -- not too clever, but descriptive -- name.

I fail to see anything wrong with maillib.
    
>That's part of the trouble with examples in the documentation: they
>can be pretty long-winded.  But that's no excuse for not including
>/something/ to give you a feel for how to use it.

I personally prefer documentation that gives the examples, then
goes on to explain the details.

- - -
[1] mailheader is my attempt to do what Barry is doing with his
mimelib library: provide a Python library for handling email
messages. ("mailheader" is actually a misnomer due to the fact
that originally it was just a MailHeader class). Mailheader was
written as part of my Herbrip email encryption program. It's
conceptually a lot simpler than mimelib: this means it doesn't
understand MIME, it also means it is (hopefully) simply to 
understand.

If you want to look at mailheader, download Herbrip from
<http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/oss/herbivore/herbrip.html>
and look at the mailheader.py and utility.py files.

-- 
*** Philip Hunt *** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ***
"Welcome to 21st Century America, where the profits of the major 
record labels, movie houses, and publishing companies are more 
important than First Amendment rights." -- Bruce Schneier  







From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Aug 27 10:30:36 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:30:36 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: os.execl()
In-Reply-To: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108271823270.944-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, eli wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> 	I have a question about the ececl function from the os module. I was
> trying to write a script to untar a bunch of tarballs in a directory. The
> script looked like this
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import os
> 
> os.system("ls *.gz > data_file")
> 
> tar_file = open("data_file"), "r")
> 
> tar_array = tar_file.readlines()

this is equivalent to:

import glob
tar_array = glob.glob("*.gz")
 
> for tarball in tar_array:
> 	os.execl("tar", "xzvf", tarball)

Why not just:

for tarball in tar_array:
      os.system("tar xzvf %s" % tarball)
 
> os.system("rm data_file")
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was getting errors from the xzvf argument of tar during the first
> evecution of the loop. I'm pretty new to python so I don't knwo where to
> go from here. I would appreciate any help that you could give me. 
> 
> 																	Thanks,
> 																			eli
> 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From joonas at olen.to  Tue Aug 21 14:28:20 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:28:20 +0300
Subject: Killing httpserver-thread on gui quit
References: <11aed8f9.0108210549.4e617422@posting.google.com> <kusnela1wg.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3B82A844.6655C486@olen.to>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> 
> In article <11aed8f9.0108210549.4e617422 at posting.google.com>,
> joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa) writes:
> 
> | How can I set up a gui and a httpserver threads.
> | When gui's self.quit is executed,
> | httpserver should stop aswell.
> 
> [...]
> 
> | thread1 = threading.Thread( target=httpd.serve_forever() )
                                                          ^^
                                                          Oops!

Oops! I passed httpd.serve_forever()'s return value to Thread, not the
callable object.
Now it works fine.
> 
> if you don't want to serve forever, don't call serve_forever ;)
> 
> do something like...
> 
> while not want_quit:
>   httpd.handle_request()
> 
>   -- erno


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 16:34:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:34:33 +0200
Subject: Replacing text for all files in a directory
References: <mailman.997212435.27088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ks7760q1d@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Kemp Randy-W18971" <Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997212435.27088.python-list at python.org...
> Since I don't write Python every day, here is a simple question.
> I have a directory called test, containing files A, B, ..., Z, and I want
to
> replace all occurrences of the text "Have a good day" to "jump off a
cliff."
> This is a comic example, but I need to do something similar in real life.
> How can I do this in Python, running on Unix?

import fileinput, glob, os

os.chdir('test')
for line in fileinput.input(glob.glob('*'), inplace=1):
    print line.replace("Have a good day","jump off a cliff."),


Alex





From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Fri Aug  3 09:12:19 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:12:19 GMT
Subject: (in)exactness of complex numbers
References: <mailman.996249232.22459.python-list@python.org> <cp4rry2qvh.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3b62cc78.3396597@nntp.sprynet.com> <3B676D3A.E436943A@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <3b6803bd.349341@nntp.sprynet.com> <3b688808.1019964571@wa.news.verio.net> <3b69521b.850594@nntp.sprynet.com> <mailman.996787686.29273.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b6aa1bf.862555@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:28:45 -0700, Michael Ackerman <ack at nethere.com>
wrote:

>
>
>"David C. Ullrich" wrote:
>
>> Exactly what definition of
>> "complex number" do you have in mind here?
>> The _standard_ definition _is_ "pair of
>> real numbers".)
>
>If you define the complex numbers C as pairs of reals, you have given at
>most its structure of real vector space. Then you must define
>multiplication and prove that what you have is actually a ring.

Thanks for pointing this out yet one more time. Actually I was
aware of that... you omit the opening parentheses from the bit
you quote here: The _point_ to my post was not to insist that
one definition was correct, it was to say that it seems silly
to suggest that the mathematical definition has anything to
do with the way complexes should work in Python.

>But if
>you define C as the quotient ring R[X]/(X^2+1), then you needn't do
>anything more.

Only because you've _already_ proved what needs to be proved
about quotient rings.

> This definition is often used, e.g. in MacLane &
>Birhkoff's "Algebra", the most categorically oriented basic algebra
>text.  

I take back what I've been saying about how the definitions are
irrelevant to Python. Python should not represent complexes
as pairs of floats. Instead a complex should be an equivalence
class of real polynomials...

Perhaps "standard" was putting it too strongly; my point
of view is coming from complex analysis, not algebra. I've
seen the complexes defined many times in a complex-analysis
setting, never as anything other than a pair of reals.

Or rather as a pair of reals plus suitable definitions for
the operations.

>-- Michael Ackerman
>
>


David C. Ullrich


From cbarber at curl.com  Wed Aug  1 15:44:07 2001
From: cbarber at curl.com (Christopher Barber)
Date: 01 Aug 2001 15:44:07 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> writes:

> On 1 Aug 2001, Christopher Barber wrote:
>> One problem I remember having was that I was writing library code and had to
>> write explicit run-time type-checking code to check the types of incoming
>> arguments.
> 
> But why? ...

Maybe it just comes down to personal preference.  I have written code in quite
a number of languages but have always preferred to declare types when I have
had the chance.  I know that it has brought me benefits in my own development
work, and you are not going to convince me otherwise.  I fully believe in
writing as comprehensive unit tests as you can, but I also know from
experience that it is virtually impossible to catch everything this way.  I
would not want to force static type declarations down anyone else's throat
but it would be nice if they were available to those that wanted to use them.

You didn't respond to my comments on potential for performance gains.  Can I
assume that I scored a point?  ;-)

- Christopher


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 04:47:23 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:47:23 -0400
Subject: Deposing Dictators
In-Reply-To: <000b01c124bc$8973be00$a9e1fea9@carol>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENLLFAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Arthur Siegel]
> ...
> Guido, after misdirecting the discussion

Prejudicial choice of words, don't you think?

> by implying he was going to pass on the PEP due to the code breakage
> issue,

That was his view at the time; it changed later.

> announces he is sending out a patch previewing the new division
> semantics to the desperately needy VPython folks

"desparately needy" is more counterproductive excess.  Since they and Alice
had the longest sustained visible interest in this issue, sure, of course he
made the patch available to them.  It's equally available to you.

> - PEP accepted.

Not yet at that point.

> At the time, about all the PEP said was that the division semantics
> of Python was a major stumbling block for the newbie.

Guido had not written any of the PEP by that time; it was more like Moshe's
cryptic notes to himself; Moshe doesn't speak for Guido, and it was Moshe's
PEP then.  What changed in the meantime was the full realization that (as
the PEP now makes clear) unification of the numeric model would also be
blocked without changing int division, and Guido took over the PEP then,
rewriting it from scratch.  There are several reasons to change division,
and it's the confluence of independent pressures toward the same end that
drove it to critical mass.

> Guido responded to one of my own early posts by throwing the VPython
> experience up as a proof of the significance of the issue.
> Bruce Sherwood's report to him on the VPython's students experience
> was quoted at length.

What of it?  Nobody is claiming that the VPython folks don't want this
change -- and reports based on experience instead of pure rhetoric have a
certain charm due to their extreme rarity <0.9 wink>.

> The obvious line here -
>
> You can rewrite the PEP, but not the history.

I'm not trying to.

> The only significant information that has been revealed in this
> exchange is again no particular surprise to me.  You linked a few
> posts ago to a long Bruce Sherwood post to Python-Dev about the
> significance of the div issue for his use of Python in his physics
> class.

It was actually to Idle-Dev.  Now you can get worked up about how Bruce was
trying to hide it from the Python developers <wink>.

> The post was *before* he had used it in the classroom.
> He had pre-determined it as a problem - not experienced it
> as a problem.
> ...

Sorry, I still don't see what it has to do with PEP 238.  Even assuming it
were true, which I don't -- while Bruce may not have used Python in a
classroom before then (the referenced post doesn't really say), he had many
years of prior classroom experience, and was one of the designers of the cT
programming language, and used cT in the classroom.  The idea that his
expressed convictions were baseless is thus one I don't buy.

BTW, cT has three distinct division operators:  "/" (always floating),
"$div$" (truncating to int) and "$divr$" (rounding to nearest int).  You can
argue with him about whether cT's decision to supply those damaged his
students, but it's not relevant to PEP 238 regardless.

outta-this-ly y'rs  - tim




From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 06:02:24 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:02:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
In-Reply-To: <XO2j7.19$Cz3.314@pollux.casema.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290557370.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

>
> I can read, write, speak , hear, understand english. I'm dutch, so dutch
> still is easier for me. That's why I asked for dutch books.
>
> so if i got it right, python is easier then vb. Only one  thing is not easy.
> You can't just put  a control on a form. But there are special thingies in
> python who can.
>
> And i've got one more question. What's the limit of python. What can you not
> make in it. Vb stops somewere, c++ stops later. Weere stops python?
> Thank you for your fast reactions.

 ...

That's a _very_ good question...

I can't think of a time when I've ever seen Python stop. Slow down, yes, but
not stop.

The truth is, even if there is something you can't do in Python natively, you
always have the capability to write a module in C that is callable from
Python.

So the answer, then, is that Python stops wherever C stops. And I don't think
there's a person alive who's EVER seen C stop. I could be wrong though.

P.S. Nice e-mail address ;)

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Aug 21 04:52:53 2001
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:52:53 +0200
Subject: Tkinter on IRIX and Linux
In-Reply-To: <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E@zikai.org>
References: <3B81E5FF.49B72C6E@zikai.org>
Message-ID: <01082110514601.00328@phoenix>

On Tuesday 21 August 2001 06:39, you wrote:
> I compiled Python 2.0 on IRIX and Linux. Neither of them supports
> tkinter. When I import Tkinter:
>
> [error message removed...]
>

What you are seeing is that when you compiled Python 2.0 you didn't have Tk 
installed in a place where it is found (that means in --include-dir) by the 
module when that one was compiled by make.

What you have to do is:

1. check whether you have Tk installed (by trying to run 'wish' as 
superuser). If that doesn't work (gives file not found), get both Tcl and Tk 
from http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10894 and compile 
them without threads support enabled! This is important, as Tk crashes often 
under Linux when thread-support is used. Install Tcl and Tk in /usr (by using 
--prefix=/usr), so that you won't have to specify an additional --include-dir 
for Python.

2. Recompile Python, but remove /usr/lib/python2.0 (or 
/usr/local/lib/python2.0 or whatever) before by rm -r. And then do a make 
install, and you're off. :)

Hope this helps!

-- 
Yours sincerely,

	Heiko Wundram



From guido at python.org  Wed Aug 22 04:42:24 2001
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:42:24 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <3B7400C1.BA52170B@SoftHome.net> <cp3d6ybcho.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <1rjctgABtPe7Ewxc@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <cp7kw6em6n.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <LhPzvXAweVe7Ew3O@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <cp1ymadub3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <QmxFOIAPCif7EwNm@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cpy9occwt6.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Ok so is the implication that external references to M.X could possibly
> be controllable by get/set mechanisms, but inside M such controls
> wouldn't work? Inside M you could presumably import M and work with M.X.

Yes. :-)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)


From bokr at accessone.com  Wed Aug  1 01:29:58 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 05:29:58 GMT
Subject: sleep command/function & searching the python docs
References: <9k6ilm$2sed8$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de> <etd7kwonbi6.fsf@lola-granola.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3b6712f9.924462206@wa.news.verio.net>

On 31 Jul 2001 15:29:05 -0400, Alex <new_name at mit.edu> wrote:

>
>FWIW, the general index has a reference to sleep that would have pointed
>you the right way.  python.org seems to still be down, but there's a
>copy at 
>
>http://puffin.lcs:8080/python/lib/genindex.html
>
>you can look at.
>
Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do a bute force exhaustive directory
of the html docs,  scanning them for words and html target anchors and logging
the locations of words in terms of page and nearest preceding anchor.
You'd probably want a list of words to ignore, etc.

The search could be a command line python program with a pickled directory
and it could just write a temp file for the html of hits, and spawn a browser
for the file. You'd continue in the browser.

A little html server wouldn't be that hard either. I think there's a demo.

Of course, there are some pretty big indices already, so an exahustive index
should probably return those at the top of hit lists.

How many mythical hours would anyone guess? (the JvN anecdote comes to mind.
I.e., who's going to say, "Never mind, I have the answer."? )


From yoshiel at ig.com.br  Wed Aug  8 15:29:00 2001
From: yoshiel at ig.com.br (Yoshie)
Date: 8 Aug 2001 12:29:00 -0700
Subject: I NEED TO DELETE A FILE THE LAST 3 MONTHS (directory)
Message-ID: <9a26d732.0108081128.6e0914f1@posting.google.com>

I have a doubt about select a any file and verify if this file have
more 3 months. If file have more 3 months, i need to delete. Else to
mantain in Directory.

THanks

YOSHIE


From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 22 06:23:22 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 03:23:22 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> So, the nifty list-comprehension is at least as
> fast as the map+lambda combo, and presumably a
> bit faster, about 10% -- at least on this box
> (Python 2.1.1, WinNT4, Pentium3-300, lots of RAM).

I just tried your example in Python 2.1.1, Linux, P3-750, lots of ram,
but with a 100 element list instead of 3 elements. 

        a = map(lambda x: x+1.0, range(100))

Results (running each method 10,000 times like in your example):

        map(lambda x: 4.0*x, a)       1.97 seconds
        [4.0*x for x in a]            3.57 seconds

I don't know why the list comprehension is slower than the map/lambda
for this larger list.

I also used the occasion to download NumPy and try it out.  As
expected, it's a lot faster than either of the above methods, since it
doesn't have interpreter overhead at every one of the multiplications:

    import Numeric
    na = array(a)

    start = time.clock()
    for i in range(10000):
        junk = 4.0 * na
    stend = time.clock ()
    print "%.2f"%(stend-start)

Result: 0.31 seconds.  So NumPy is by far the fastest of the methods.


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 18 17:38:30 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:38:30 -0500
Subject: Fully handling exceptions.
In-Reply-To: <m3n14x2ic0.fsf@underlevel.underlevel.net>
References: <m3n14x2ic0.fsf@underlevel.underlevel.net>
Message-ID: <15230.57430.912850.191107@beluga.mojam.com>

    Jordan>     try:
    Jordan>       src_in = urllib.urlopen(ag_url)
    Jordan>     except IOError:
    Jordan>       print '%s : connection cannot be made or \
    Jordan>              server returned error.' %(ag_url)
    Jordan>     except:
    Jordan>       print '%s : unknown error.' %(ag_url)

    Jordan>   urllib's manual documents IOError as the only possible
    Jordan>   exception raised by urlopen; does this make my last except
    Jordan>   superfluous, or can there be other exceptions raised when
    Jordan>   urlopen is called that the last except may handle?

If you happen to hit Ctrl-C while urllib.urlopen is executing, you can get a
KeyboardInterrupt.  That's not strictly speaking something that urllib can
catch, but probably an interrupt you don't want to catch quite the way you
do.  How about

    try:
      src_in = urllib.urlopen(ag_url)
    except IOError:
      print '...'
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
      raise
    except:
      print '%s : unknown error.' %(ag_url)

Also, if you do catch an unexpected exception, you might well want to
display it.  See the docs for sys.get_exc_info().

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 11 15:08:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:08:27 +0200
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <87ofppnax8.fsf@xeno.localhost> <015501c12204$bf0872a0$d3bd6ac2@zko> <008d01c1220f$141bbae0$6401a8c0@atl.mediaone.net> <mailman.997499838.6140.python-list@python.org> <9l2uqm0eub@enews2.newsguy.com> <vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <9l409801oli@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Jeremy Jones" <dnjjones at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vHcd7.141319$um3.1177136 at typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...
    ...
> > for a parent/child relationship.  Rather, since children appear to
> > have varying attributes, you'll need to split THOSE off into a table
> > of their own (with CHILD as a foreign key).
>
> In the example that I was working on, the children (not of the same
parent,
> but in different tiers of the hierarchy) were of differing types and would
> have different attributes and different quantities of attributes.  I don't

Yep, that's what it seemed like from your example, just as I said
and you quoted.

> result.  I suppose you could hack together a table that would accomodate
all
> of those different attributes and have CHILD as a foreign key, but it
seems
> it would be a pain to give it room to grow if I needed it to.  (I just
KNOW

How tables grow is an administrative matter of the RDBMS you're using --
some make it a pain (because they want to offer you, the DBM administrator,
lots of possibilities for performance &c -- "Enterprise-class" RDBMS, used
to manage LOTS of gigabytes), some make it totally transparent and still
manage to deliver decent performance for less-humongous data sets (you
*aren't* going to have all that many gigabytes here, are you?).  I would not
worry about that at this stage.  Organizing one table of attributes (or N+1,
if you want attributes of N different types) in this manner is no "hack" --
it's
standard operating procedure for relational DB design.  E.g. say all of your
attributes have a string name and string contents, one attribute always
belong to just one child (many-to-one, not many-to-many), then what you
want is a table with three fields: ATTNAME (attribute name), CHILDID (the
ID of the child to which the attribute belongs), ATTVALUE (attribute value).
CHILDID is indeed a foreign key, and ATTNAME+CHILDID the primary key
of the attribute table (eschew nonstandard RDBMS which don't let you
have foreign keys as part of primary keys... but if you're stuck with one,
just add the usual semi-hack, a unique attribute-id per row of this table
to act as the primary key -- technically violating a normal-form constraint,
but then that's the price you pay for using a nonstandard RDBMS:-).

> that I am setting myself up here for you guys to show me some dynamite way
> to accomodate a dynamic set of varying numbers of attributes since it is
> obvious that both of you have worked a lot more with databases than I
have.
> When you prove me wrong, I will gratefully accept the humiliation  :-)

It's really as simple as I just said -- relational databases ARE a pretty
powerful concept, you know.  Whatever you end up using for this
project, I heartily suggest you plan to get some RDB design ideas
in the future: a well-designed RDB scales up enormously (with the
right underlying technology -- I'm not talking of abusing the Jet
engine, aka 'access DB', or Gadfly, for an Enterprise-scale project,
but of reusing a logical DB design born for a small engine 'up' with
an Enterprise-class engine such as DB2, Oracle, or SQL Server).

Sure, sure, XML *IS* great -- whenever you need to exchange (and
particularly transmit) information between machines, XML's the
cat's pajamas.  But for storing large datasets locally, XML textfiles
may not be the best choice -- store them into a RDBMS, which when
well managed will give you a zillion advantages, and if need be use
the appropriate utilities to dump out a part of your DB in XML form
and/or import XML-form additions.


> I appreciate the posts.  They have definitely spurred me on to think
> differently.  I am still inclined to think that the DOM/XML route will be
a
> more simple route for my specific problem.

This is quite possible -- you do get a handy in-memory format,
hierarchical just as you need, rather than needing any conceptual
translation step hierarchy <-> relational.  If the amount of data
you're going to handle in one step will comfortably fit in memory,
and you have no need for other typical RDBMS benefits such as
transactional integrity and data-independence (ability to easily
write other apps in the future that exploit the same data in a very
different access pattern), then XML may well be the way to go.

But that's not because there's any intrinsic difficulty in mapping
your problem to a relational pattern...!-)


Alex





From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Thu Aug 16 14:11:55 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 14:11:55 -0400
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lgt9j011q1@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3d7kw3euxg.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> The fact that you're already finding such performance bugs, that
> must have been there for ages (xdrlib is pretty old, I think),

And also rarely used, I'd imagine.  Who uses SUN-RPC any more?  Unless
someone sets out to implement NIS or NFS in pure Python, it's not
clear that anyone uses xdrlib, and there's little point in optimizing
things no one uses.

--amk


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Aug  5 11:05:37 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Aug 2001 18:05:37 +0300
Subject: getting *term window dimensions w/o curses
References: <slrn9mopj4.26a.sill@sill.silmarill.org> <kulmkziiqs.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill@sill.silmarill.org>
Message-ID: <ku66c2r1ha.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn9mqmjl.2rf.sill at sill.silmarill.org>,
sill at optonline.net (Andrei Kulakov) writes:

| Anyway, this solution doesn't work in 2.1 - termios module doesn't
| have this attribute, (TERMIOS is deprecated and doesn't have it either).

hmm, it works on my machine (debian, self built python 2.1):

>>> import TERMIOS      
/usr/local/lib/python2.1/TERMIOS.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the TERMIOS module is deprecated; please use termios
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> TERMIOS.TIOCGWINSZ
21523
>>> import termios
>>> termios.TIOCGWINSZ
21523


| What's tigetstr?

my guess is that it's a library function for accessing the terminfo
database. i don't think python exposes it.

  -- erno


From steve at lurking.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug  5 17:15:43 2001
From: steve at lurking.demon.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:15:43 +0100
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <slrn9mh5bv.d2m.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <56fqmtcl20tg64aradbnarkj9kl514kg67@4ax.com> <9Hgb7.73303$EP6.17305404@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <1fcrmt0inrolh6qjpskm7lfm7nh2j0p195@4ax.com>

On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:58:13 GMT, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com>
wrote:

>Since Guido has already acknowledged your freedom and invited you to
>exercise it if you wish, and disclaimed any intention to 'do
>[anything] about it' (other than in how he develops Python) what is
>your purpose in continuing to falsely label him 'dictator' as in
>'denier of freedom'?  Enough I think.

I did not label him dictator, and I am simply using the language that
is widespread on this list. As far as I am aware, DFL (and
particularly BDFL) is not a term that offends Guido. I just explicitly
pointed out that he cannot be a dictator in the sense of a denier of
freedom - that was the whole point of the 'weak dictatorship'
statement - so I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to twist my words.

I'm simply saying - fine, you win. I am not saying I'm wrong, but I am
leaving. I am not going to hang around here whining - the history of
the issue is that the whiners have been the pro-PEP238 camp as most
anti-PEP238 people never had a reason to whine until a couple of weeks
ago. I've stated my arguments and, by the simple means of putting the
whole rationale in one place, my opinion apparently went from being
easily-countered-with-weak-arguments to
too-much-trouble-to-counter-so-lets-ignore-it. There is no argument
that can counter being ignored, so there is no point me staying.

I have an interest in how Python eases this issue, as I still have old
code to deal with, but beyond that, this has gone too far already. And
beyond this post now, I have no further patience for defending my
point of view or contributing in any way to this topic.



From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Tue Aug 14 19:43:45 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:43:45 -0700
Subject: simple example of mimelib?  and embedding (not attaching) images in 
 email sent with python.
References: <97ae44ee.0108140526.63a22745@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B79B7B0.1F68A15B@ccvcorp.com>

Stephen wrote:

> I've looked through the archives regarding using smtplib and the
> numerous MIME related modules for sending email messages with attachments.
> I've found various solutions, some of which no longer seem to work, and
> was quite surprised how this seemingly banal task has caused so much trouble.
> However, in Microsoft Outlook, it's possible to embed image files into
> the actual message as opposed to having them attached.  This way, they
> display when the recipient views the message.  Just how does one compose
> a message like that with Python may I ask?

Of the top of my head, I'd guess that Outlook does this by using HTML messages
(content-type=text/html).  You can do this just as you would a plain text
message, except that you need to specify the proper content type, and of course
the message body must be valid html (at least, parseable by the recipients'
readers, some of which may have different opinions on what is "valid html").
Keep in mind that many people don't much care for receiving HTML mail, especially
thanks to Outlook's broken security regarding scripting...

It is true that the current Python std library, as I've seen it (I work with
2.0), doesn't have much high-level support for MIME and email.  I haven't looked
at the forthcoming Mimelib, yet, however, so I can't answer as to how well that
package addresses the current weaknesses.  I have, however, cobbled together a
usable "outbox" utility that allows me to easily send email, with MIME
attachments, based on text-file contents.  It's not all *that* difficult, really.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Aug 26 15:22:07 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:22:07 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <71jiotg3cbdpb6maid4fpa4ql3tjik8euh@4ax.com>

On Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:19:36 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4 at 4ax.com>:

:
:I really don't see any way around file locking for the type of
:application I'm trying to write. However, I guess after seeing all the
:trouble with the msvcrt module, and how it doesn't even seem to allow
:shared locking access to a file, that I will go ahead and use the
:win32all extensions. I'm supposing that will allow better control?

It appears, after a bit more research, that this will not work for all
win32 platforms, anyway. Apparently unsupported on Win95/98/Me:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/hh/winbase/filesio_39h4.asp

(scroll down to just below where it says "requirements")

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 23 10:04:21 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:04:21 +0200
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998473353.18926.python-list@python.org> <9m01um01dcc@enews3.newsguy.com> <QO2h7.4623$XY4.463031@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9m32i2027v0@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Chris Tavares" <ctavares at develop.com> wrote in message
news:QO2h7.4623$XY4.463031 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
    ...
> > that .NET would NOT use reference counting but rather
> > mark-and-sweep (so, no guaranteed finalization time).
>
> Actually, .NET uses a generational copying collector, NOT a mark & sweep
> collector. Just to be pedantic. :-)

Pedantry is important in computing, but my point stands:
it does not matter much what specific implementation of GC
is in the current betas, or which one will make it to the
production release (and they can change it any time of
course), the really important things are the semantics
as specified.  The .NET Framework, and specifically the
IL semantics as submitted to standards bodies, don't get
into implementation details.

The relevant point here is IMHO that, coding to .NET
specs, you can rely on mark-and-sweep semantics: "the
system" will finalize stuff even if it's in reference
cycles, BUT it will finalize it if and when it happens
to be convenient to "the system", subject to the sole
constraint that it will not keep non-finalized stuff
that it could finalize if and when it gives you an
out-of-memory exception (NO such guarantee applies to
ANY other resource except memory, I believe -- I wish
I was wrong on this point, and that collect-all-you-
can finalization was guaranteed before any other kind
of resource-exhausted error, but I can't find any
mention of that whatsoever on the .NET specs).

And programmers used to reference-count semantics
(finalization doesn't occur given reference loops,
but without them it occurs instantly as soon as an
object is found to be unreferenced) have proven to
be very reluctant to abandon those semantics for
m&s semantics (whether _implemented_ by m&s, copying,
generational mixed-strategies, etc, isn't the point:-).


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug  8 14:52:19 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:52:19 -0400
Subject: Python, COM and scripting Word
References: <87k80fg083.fsf@lucifer.home.spb>
Message-ID: <fRfc7.22129$5j7.1963688@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Eugene Morozov" <jmv at yandex.ru> wrote in message
news:87k80fg083.fsf at lucifer.home.spb...
> Hello!
> I'm playing with Python, COM and Word and I'm very impressed. It's a
> shame that no such thing exist under Unix. But I'm actually interested
> if it is possible to run Python scripts directly from Word, binding
> them to the toolbar buttons, for example?
> Eugene
>
You could do that indirectly, by implementing COM objects in Python and then
creating and manipulating them from VBA. You're having so much fun with this
stuff you should really get a copy of Hammond and Robinson's "Python
Programming on Win32" if you haven't already. I assume you haven't yet
because it explains how to do all this neat stuff in a lot of detail.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/


-- Bertrand Russell




From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 13:54:08 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:54:08 GMT
Subject: Python versions (was Re: os.execl())
References: <20010827.094906.1398295499.2106@udel.edu> <slrn9okmge.bi5.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <200108271445.f7REjT7k007185@smtp5.andrew.cmu.edu> <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <9me028$ecq$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <uu1lot4hcueu0m6av968nrmkknejs6d45p@4ax.com>

On 27 Aug 2001 10:29:44 -0700, aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <9me028$ecq$1 at panix2.panix.com>:

:In article <slrn9okse0.c6a.grante at grante.comtrol.com>,
:Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
:>
:>I didn't realize we were discussing 1.5.2.  I assume people are
:>using a fairly recent version unless they specify otherwise.
:>Under 2.1, spawnv is available for Unix. I don't remember if it
:>was in 2.0.
:
:Until Red Hat et al upgrade the default installation, I assume there's a
:good chance questions refer to 1.5.2.

I will second that. This is one of the primary reasons that my webhost
will not entertain upgrading the system Python to a more recent version.
He doesn't want to risk "breaking" something, and says that Python is
"built-in" to the system, somehow.

I had suggested that he provide a more recent version in a separate
directory, but in the end, I got to install the upgraded Python in my
own server space. (And it takes no small chunk of space, for those of us
on small, basic web hosting packages.)

This is one of the reasons that I've been trying to write my scripts so
that they will still run on 1.5.2. I imagine quite a few hosts out
there, who run RH out of the box will only be offering 1.5.2.

Plus, there is the whole thing, with some people not even wanting to
touch the RH 7.x. (I don't understand all the issues around this, but
the fact is that even if RH does update their Python in their install
routines, that some people don't even want to use the latest RH, for
some reason...)

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 14:42:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:42:37 +0200
Subject: Calling C++ from Python
References: <3B7D2A85.A11E46CB@hotmail.com> <3B7D5E93.56ABDB84@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9ljomu02h1e@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Jeff Shannon" <jeff at ccvcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3B7D5E93.56ABDB84 at ccvcorp.com...
    ...
> its many variants.  (Note that popen() is broken on windows, you'll want
to

Not in the current Python (2.1).


Alex





From drew.csillag at starmedia.net  Wed Aug  8 11:09:13 2001
From: drew.csillag at starmedia.net (Drew Csillag)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:09:13 -0400
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] SkunkWeb 3.0 beta 1 Released
Message-ID: <20010808110913.E1576@naxos.starmedia.net>

Version 3.0beta1 of The SkunkWeb Web Application Server has just been
released.

This is the first public release of skunkweb.  The license is the GPL.

What is it?
------------------------------
SkunkWeb is (yet another) web application server.  The things that make it
different from other app servers are:

Uses Python
	* Python is easy to learn for both new programmers and experts alike
	* senior programmer types like it too (vs. say tcl)
	* extensible with C/C++ for speed and/or linkage to C/C++ libraries
          via static *or* dynamic linking

Extensible
	* Relatively simple extension API
	* can easily handle authentication, custom url building/parsing 
          schemes and custom tags

Encourages component based design
	* more than just "include"
	* not just another ASP/JSP like thing
	* a powerful templating language 
	* encouraged by caching options (see below)
	* component output can be either HTML or Python objects
	* can write components in either STML or Python
	* can also call components on other skunkweb servers
	
Message Catalogs
	* makes multi-lingual sites much easier
	* support variable substitution in messages

Speed
	* templates are compiled to Python bytecode
	* extensive caching (to disk and optionally memory) of:
		o compiled forms of templates
		o digested message catalogs
		o output of components
		o python modules and python components
	* cache *is* sharable between machines if using a
	  shared filesystem! (can be more than one shared filesystem
          for speed, redundancy and flexibility)
	* caching is flexible and as finite as your disk space
	* components can be rendered after the response is sent if 
	  a slightly stale version is available --- resulting in
	  better response times via deferred components

Documentation
	* extensive documentation available in HTML, PostScript, PDF & text
          --well not yet, but getting there
	* have automatic documentation tools to generate documentation for 
	  STML templates (but don't use the manual stuff, it sucks).

Process Model
        * Uses multi-process, versus multi-threading which makes better
          use of multiple processors (because of the global interpreter
          lock in Python), and is safer in that if one process crashes, 
          it won't kill the entire server.

No magic (zodb <wink>).


The release is available from the SkunkWeb home page at
	http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net

or directly from 
        http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/skunkweb/skunkweb-3.0beta0.tgz

Very best wishes to all,

-Drew

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Sat'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From markus at schabi.de  Sun Aug 12 12:19:10 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:19:10 +0200
Subject: [OT] ScanMail Message: To Sender, sensitive content found and action t aken. (fwd)
References: <mailman.997080731.16523.python-list@python.org> <eHvb7.17518$5j7.1153191@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <8675510.O6BkTfRZtg@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> schrub:

> It means that one of the recipients of the Python mailing list has a
> brain-dead mail filter. I tries communicating with the guys who ran
> one of these once, and the response seemed to be "sorry, we can't do
> anything about it".

Then I can only advise those people to use the comp.lang.python 
newsgroup instead, and get their files using (NNTP or UUCP) over SSL.

> Censorship is bad. Uncontrollable censorship is terrible!

Fully agree on this.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  1 09:18:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:18:53 +0200
Subject: Generator Comprehensions? was Re: a break for comprehensions
References: <3B66FFEC.5335E1C8@destiny.com> <3B670BB3.48D4A5A5@ActiveState.com>              <010f01c11a13$3a930920$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>  <200108010326.XAA18273@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996643861.24860.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9k8vk50hdt@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Ken Seehof" <kseehof at neuralintegrator.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.996643861.24860.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> In practice, this puts a filter on an existing lazy sequence.
Unfortunately
> the filter is limited to a one-to-one mapping of the input sequence, but
> that's true of list comprehensions too isn't it?

Many-to-one, in both cases, e.g.
    [somefun(x) for x in seq if somecond(x)]

One-to-many (thus clearly also many-to-many) can be obtained for
concrete sequences with the help of another 'nested' for:

    [somefun2(x,i) for x in seq for i in range(3) if somecond2(x,i)]

may end up with 0 to 2 items of the output sequence for each
item x of the input sequence seq.


Alex





From news at aegis.mailshell.com  Fri Aug  3 05:02:40 2001
From: news at aegis.mailshell.com (news at aegis.mailshell.com)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 09:02:40 GMT
Subject: Threading question
References: <9k9635$hli$1@news.netmar.com> <9kbhr8$d7v$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9kdpbg$noo$1@news.netmar.com>

In article <9kbhr8$d7v$1 at panix2.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com>
writes:
>In article <9k9635$hli$1 at news.netmar.com>,  <news at aegis.mailshell.com>
wrote:
>...snip...
>Yes, the "if" is redundant.  You might want to use a different method
>for synchronizing with the threads, though. 
>...snip...
Thanks, 
It works as I expected, probably the best thing about python.

Daniel.

 -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  -----
  http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups
   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts
made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse at newsone.net


From EdwinEarl at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 23 22:21:00 2001
From: EdwinEarl at yahoo.com (Edwin Earl Ross)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:21:00 -0500
Subject: Stand Alone Executable
Message-ID: <DVih7.178$%d7.81258@nnrp3.sbc.net>

This is a newbie question.
I've created a 20 line program and want others to use it. Is it possible to
create a run time release that anyone can run, without the user installing
python on their machine?

--
Edwin Earl Ross
Entropy is a devil.




From howard at eegsoftware.com  Fri Aug 24 01:22:27 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:22:27 GMT
Subject: catching errors in embedded Python on Windows
References: <3B8592CC.7CDAA870@eegsoftware.com> <ug0aiuqc6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3B85E490.BD3FA223@eegsoftware.com>

Examples? Sure (although I first tried the python redirection method in my
embedded code).  Of course they're in the error conditions...otherwise, why
would I care :)  Even worse, the exact same Python scripts work fine in
python/pythonw but not when run from a PyRunSimpleString.........sigh

Python2.0 (it takes a lot to move embedded stuff from one version so ...)
pythonrun.c (starting about line 674):

void
PyErr_PrintEx(int set_sys_last_vars)
{
.......
 if (PyErr_GivenExceptionMatches(exception, PyExc_SystemExit)) {
  if (Py_FlushLine())
   PyErr_Clear();
  fflush(stdout);        <== this is supposed to be the CRT file pointer

.......
   PyObject_Print(v, stderr, Py_PRINT_RAW);
   fprintf(stderr, "\n");
   Py_Exit(1);
......
 f = PySys_GetObject("stderr");            <== it looks like someone thought
 if (f == NULL)                                               about it but...
  fprintf(stderr, "lost sys.stderr\n");       <=== huh?
 else {
  if (Py_FlushLine())
   PyErr_Clear();
  fflush(stdout);                                    <=== only stderr was
checked??
.......

Anyway, when tracing through the debugger....stdout/stderr do not point to CRT
stream outputs so the CRT cannot be used for this output.  Windows leaves them
pointing to the wrong kind of object (according to Microslush)...and they even
tell you that *sometimes* you have to call your program *differently* to make
them *work*.

What I do is breakpoint on each error line, trace in a few routines until I get

to where the obj->str part is being printed and 'look' at it.  Of course, I
have to do it for EACH damn element being printed....look at a traceback
sometime and count how many elements are being printed!

I am still working up my nerve to try a real fix.  The problem is that this is
*Windows* peculiar (aren't they all) and I'm not sure of the *right*..make that
'Pythonic'.. fix.

Thanks

Howard

David Bolen wrote:

> Howard Lightstone <howard at eegsoftware.com> writes:
>
> > OK, I made up a Python class/methods to take over stderr/stdout when
> > running Pythonw applications and display them in a Tkinter window.
> > Works slick.
> >
> > However, this DOESN'T work when embedding Python since pythonrun.c still
> > refers to stdout/stderr directly...which Windows doesn't have set to
> > anything useful.
>
> I don't see many direct references to stdout/stderr in pythonrun.c (at
> least current source) except in some specific low level error
> conditions or system exit scenarios.  It seems to be using the
> sys.stdout and sys.stderr objects pretty consistently, so if they're
> redirected you should be fine.  Certainly anything your prior
> class/methods did in your pythonw applications should be doable in an
> embedded environment.
>
> I think there was a recent thread here on some manner to handle this
> with actual internal API calls (probably PySys_SetObject to point
> stdout/stderr in the sys module to your internal object), but in an
> early embedded application I had, I didn't yet grok Python that well,
> so instead took a more straight forward approach that more closely
> matched how I had done it in pure Python code - by executing actual
> Python code to perform the redirection.
>
> That is, I did the following:
>
> * Created an embedded Python interpreter, and then declared my own code
>   as a module to extend that embedded interpreter (see the recent extending
>   and embedding thread for further info).  The extension was also for other
>   purposes in addition to redirection.
>
> * Wrote internal stdout and stderr functions that routed the messages
>   to an internal display window.  I then declared them as functions in
>   my module I extended the interpreter with.
>
> * Before executing any scripts with the newly created embedded interpreter,
>   I used PyRun_SimpleFile to execute a fixed initialization file that
>   re-routed stdout/stderr, as in ("ecna" is my extension module name):
>
>       import sys
>
>       class StdoutCatcher:
>           def write(self, stuff):
>               ecna.stdout(stuff)
>
>       class StderrCatcher:
>           def write(self, stuff):
>               ecna.stderr(stuff)
>
>       sys.stdout = StdoutCatcher()
>       sys.stderr = StderrCatcher()
>
>   I expect you could also use PyRun_SimpleString instead if you didn't
>   want to depend on an external file.
>
> > How does one reroute/catch these errors?  Unfortunately, the only thing
> > I can think of  involves changing pythonrun.c to use the 'objects'
> > attached to sys.stdout and sys.stderr so they COULD be rerouted.
>
> Could you point at the section of pythonrun.c you think won't follow a
> sys.{stdout,stderr} redirection?
>
> --
> -- David
> --
> /-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
>  \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
>   |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
>  /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
> \-----------------------------------------------------------------------/



From avenkat at myrealbox.com  Wed Aug 22 23:09:17 2001
From: avenkat at myrealbox.com (Venkat)
Date: 22 Aug 2001 20:09:17 -0700
Subject: S/MIME keys (was: What Are Some Good Projects For Novices?)
References: <d0a9c74e.0108171910.1974bb9@posting.google.com> <3B7FF0F9.9567B635@stroeder.com> <slrn9o24ck.41a.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk> <mailman.998435373.14448.python-list@python.org> <68562b94.0108220938.4939935b@posting.google.com> <7xd75ovsbk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <68562b94.0108221909.2a794b85@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message news:<7xd75ovsbk.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> avenkat at myrealbox.com (Venkat) writes:
> > > Thawte gives away personal certs. Yes, free. Signed by a real CA. You just 
> > > have to provide them with some personal information. If you're dedicated,
> > >  you  can also get in on their web of trust. That allows you to have more 
> > > personal information present in the cert (like your real name).
> > 
> > Why the hell I need personal cert issued by Thwate/Verisign?
> 
> So when you send someone signed email, their mail client checks the
> cert and believes it, rather than throwing a dialog saying it has gotten
> an untrusted certificate.  Note that those free certs only validate your
> email address (which of course is enough in many situations) and are
> only good for a few months.

Use, self-signed certs with life time > 1M years:-)
Why should we pay money to thse fucken commercial CAs.

> 
> > I can say, all these certs(I call junkies) issued by these CAs are
> > meta-certs.

well, you contacted some commercial CA for cert. That Commercial CA
has to do some security checks on the credentials you provided. SO,
Commercial CA will assign this task to some agencies.

You will get the cert, once that agency provides the positive info abt
the credentials you submmitted...

Here, the commercial CA is trusting the trust of the agency..
Hence, Meta Trust:-)

Microsoft warns of hijacked certificates 
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5222484.html

regards, Death Master
> 
> I don't know what you mean by that.


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Fri Aug  3 05:41:56 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:41:56 +0200
Subject: Is it new style or just lack of style?
References: <mailman.996819245.9680.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6A71E4.9050606@___skynamics.com.invalid>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> More and more I am starting to see people adding extra
> blanks in ( ).
> 
> Recent example (from Steven's post):
> 
> '''
> def Files( start ):
>[...]


Is this style really catching on? Or have you looked at my code? :-) 
It's my preferred style in any language, not just Python.

Gerhard
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Aug 15 18:01:45 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:01:45 -0400
Subject: Integer division and remainder
In-Reply-To: <7xpu9xqynj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEAPLGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> WRT Python, the decision to do flooring integer division was very
> deliberate, and not something Guido (or I -- since I pushed him
> this way, it's my fault <wink>) has ever had cause to regret.  We
> simply regret that division returns an integer at all(!).

[Paul Rubin]
> I thought of doing it that way in gawk (I wrote the original gawk
> interpreter) but wimped out and decided it was best to have two
> separate operators (that never got implemented).  If it's working
> out in python that's great.

It surprises *some* newcomers (depending on their background), but it hasn't
attracted any significant opposition.  People just don't divide 3 apples by
negative 2 people in real life <wink>, but (e.g.) time and date calculations
are inherently modular, so i%j taking the sign of j is most useful most
often (and it seems j is always > 0 in real life).  The identity

   i / 2**j == i >> j

for any int i and any int j>=0 is also pleasant.

> I think C99 made a mistake in specifying it one way or the other.  C
> doesn't have the same goals as python.  Languages like python should
> specify these things precisely.  Languages like C should leave more
> things up to the hardware.

I don't know of any HW that returns the floor for int division, so there was
scant harm in mandating what HW universally did anyway.  It does stop C
compilers from optimizing i/2**j directly to i>>j on machines where signed
right shifts extend the sign bit, i is a signed integral type, and the
compiler can't prove that i>=0 or that the last j bits are all zero.  That's
not giving up much (pointer subtraction in C does an implied division, but
that's usually by a power of 2 and where the compiler *can* assume the last
j bits of the difference are all 0 -- so they can still generate shifts
where it matters a lot).

> I don't know of any computers whose native division instructions do
> flooring integer division like python does.

Me neither, at least not by default.  Fortran mandated truncation very early
on, and it's been a vicious feedback loop ever since <0.5 wink>.

> I also notice that math.fmod (-3, 2) = -1.0, so now there's this weird
> inconsistency between integer % and math.fmod.  I don't know offhand
> what IEEE 796 says to do with fmod.

Umm, 796 is the Microcomputer System Bus std -- I don't think it says
anything about this.  754 (the fp std) has no use for C's fmod; in
*floating* numeric work, it's most useful most often to have mod(x, y)
(however spelled) return a result whose absolute value is no larger than
abs(y/2), and then the sign of the result has nothing to do with the signs
of the inputs.  C99 adds a float "remainder" function to do exactly that.
C99's fmod(x, y):

    The fmod functions return the value x - ny, for some integer n such
    that, if y is nonzero, the result has the same sign as x and
    magnitude less than the magnitude of y.  If y is zero, whether a
    domain error occurs or the fmod functions return zero is
    implementation-defined.

The expression "x-ny" there is to be read as mathematically exact, and n may
not be repesentable without multi-thousand bit integers.

All the Python math.* functions are thin wrappers around the C library
functions of the same names, so Python's math.* functions inherit whatever
the platform C library does (and Python doesn't try to redefine them).

> Finally I see that they added a // operation (floor division) to
> Python 2.2 and it looks like there's more changes like that in
> the pipeline.

Yes, there are several PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals) open against
Python's numeric model.  Here's a URL:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/

happy-reading!-ly y'rs  - tim




From walter at livinglogic.de  Fri Aug  3 09:24:06 2001
From: walter at livinglogic.de (Walter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:24:06 +0200
Subject: 2.2 features
References: <01Aug1.191713pdt."3453"@watson.parc.xerox.com> <mailman.996777043.30213.python-list@python.org> <3B6AA06E.7060408@livinglogic.de>
Message-ID: <3B6AA5F6.1050603@livinglogic.de>

I wrote:

> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
> [...]
>> To remember isinstance() and isclass(), try to make a sentence out of
>> it, like isinstance(x, y) <==> x is instance [of] y.
> 
> 
> This would even be clearer, if isinstance and issubclass would be 
> methods of object and type respectively, i.e.
>   x.isinstance(y) or x.isinstanceof(y) or x.isa(y)
> and
>   c1.issubclass(c2)

And maybe the builtin functions hasattr, getattr, delattr, setattr 
should be methods of the class object too?

-- 
Walter D?rwald ? LivingLogic AG, Bayreuth/Germany ? www.livinglogic.de



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Aug 16 12:00:19 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:00:19 +0200
Subject: PLEAC project
References: <mailman.997952546.30621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9lgqmj0ttb@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.997952546.30621.python-list at python.org...
    ...
> "If successful, this project may become a primary resource for quick,
> handy, and free solutions to most common programming problems using
> higher-level programming languages. It could also be useful for comparison
> on ease-of-use and power/efficiency of these languages."

I dispute this, given FAQ number 6 at
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac-faq.html

It gives a Ruby example, but basically it boils down to: since
Perl automatically initializes unbound variables, and "it is
-very- important" that PLEAC snippets do just the same as the
Perl Cookbook snippets, then it's not acceptable to use the
various languages in the normal way -- presumably (not spelled
out, but what else could it mean?) *every* variable being used,
e.g. in Ruby or Python, needs a try/except (in Python's terms)
to simulate Perl's "convenient" 'auto-initialization'.

I wonder how they manage that in Haskell, since I can't think
of a way to get uninitialized variables' use past the compiler,
but that's a pretty idle curiosity on my part.  The key issue
is that if and when they produce a zillion recipes that, rather
than using the various languages as they're meant to be used,
strive to contort them enough to mimic Perl's peculiar and
allegedly 'convenient' semantics, they won't have a zillion
useful recipes for each language, but rather a zillion horrors.

A _useful_ translation of the Perl Cookbook needs to address
each language's specific strengths and issues, like the
Python Cookbook up on Activestate's site is doing -- e.g.
in Ruby or Python you're not MEANT to use unbound variables,
and the try/except to catch that error is typically placed
at a much higher level on the callchain than the individual
recipe/snippet is addressing.  (In Haskell, the compiler
ensures that you won't be using unbound variables:-).

I'm gonna keep posting to the Activestate's Python Cookbook,
although anybody's welcome to take the recipes I've posted
(some of them explicitly address the same issues as some of
the Perl Cookbook's ones, and the discussion part mentions
this) and PLEAC'ize them as far as I'm concerned (I'm not
sure if by posting those recipes to the Python Cookbook I've
lost the right to authorize such derived works, though --
IANAL nor do I play one on the net), but I most assuredly
won't be PLEAC'izing them myself.


Alex





From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Aug  9 16:35:57 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:35:57 -0700
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
References: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9kus7d02iri@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <9kurh302g4k at drn.newsguy.com>, Grant says...
>
...
>If so, is it because "s +=" is implemented as "s = s
>+", where the new one is always an appended copy of the original?  (I guess I
>would hope that in the case of a string "+=" operation, Python would leave a
>little spare space at the end of the new string so multiple appends would not
>have to make a copy with _each_ append.)

OK, maybe that sort of thing isn't feasible due to the "immutable" nature of
strings.

if-there's-one-thing-we-can't-change-about-python-it's
   -immutability-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Aug 20 08:45:04 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:45:04 +1000 (EST)
Subject: zlib problems with Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108202058330.213-100000@central>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.32.0108202242340.220-100000@central>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Andrew MacIntyre wrote:

> [posted & mailed]
> On 19 Aug 2001, Peter van der Kamp wrote:
>
> > Working with the zlib module under Python 2.0, OS/2 Warp 4,
>
> Which port/build?
>
> > I encounter the following error: unknown compression method.
>
> {...}
>
> Without seeing the original code, its hard to tell.  Your pseudocode
> doesn't indicate how you're recording the position/length of the
> compressed chunks.  I would guess that something isn't correct about this
> part of your script, but that it gets it right for the first couple of
> chunks - unless you've checked that the retrieved chunk is identical to
> the chunk written.

Another thought just occurred to me - you should be opening the files in
binary mode: 'wb' for write and 'rb' for read.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au            |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/        |        Australia




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 12 05:43:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:43:00 +0200
Subject: Copy constructors
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
news:cpzo969i4k.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
    ...
> > Are there any features that we can use any longer that are not 'at our
own
> > risk'?  Division will be changed, __class__ assignment is going away,
> > type() means something different, even the rules of scope...
>
> But you're getting so much in return!  Subclassing built-in types,
> get/set methods, class and static methods, uniform introspection...

Absolutely!!!  The prospects are WONDERFUL.  We're just quibbling
about the details: my deepest apologies if that makes us seem
ungrateful for the huge bounties you keep delivering.


> > Also, as far as I know, better alternatives do not exist; for example,
> > "promise" objects from a database which are latently initialized when
they
> > are accessed.
>
> If you know the type it's going to be eventually, you can use
> C.__new__() to create an uninitialized C instance.

I don't see how that would help -- maybe I'm being thick.  How would
the uninitialized C instance automatically initialize itself at need?

Let me give a real-life example (it was not done in Python, but it would
have been so much simpler if it had).  We have a "UI-engine" component
that our applications use for user-interfaces.  A typical application we
write has a few hundreds GUI-dialogs, each described in a file (or more
often in a DB entry).  One of the tasks of the UI engine is making the
dialogs transparent to the application-engine (AE).  The AE holds
references to dialog-objects and calls methods on them when it needs
to, either to make a dialog actually appear and let the user tweak
things (non-modally -- it's typical that the user wants to leave the
dialog half-finished, go back to checking other stuff with the app,
then come back and finish the dialog), or to change some details of
a dialog dynamically.

Originally we read all of the dialog-descriptions at start-up, but that
meant the start-up was far too slow.  Then we added an 'initialized'
status bit to the dialog -- but EVERY method of the dialog had to call
an 'initialize myself in case I'm not yet initialized' method at the
start... well not every method, we soon found out, because methods
that 'change details' (but don't show the dialog) should rather queue
up the change requests if the dialog is not yet initialized, and the
'actually inizialize' method must apply the pending changes -- but
if a 'change details' method is called when the dialog is already
initialized, it must immediately apply the change rather than queue
the change-request.  And there are methods which access some
dialog property (without showing the dialog) -- those need not
trigger initialization either, IF the property is set in a pending
(queued) change-request for the not-yet-initialized dialog...

The dialog class becomes far too large and unwieldy with this
darned status-bit.  It doesn't take much to realize that this is
badly factored; the way this WANTS to be is:
    -- Dialog is an abstract class (pure interface and a few
            template-methods and utility-methods),
    -- UninitializedDialog is a concrete subclass of Dialog whose
            methods do certain things and which holds a certain
            kind of state (queue of change-requests, filename or
            other info needed to find initialization information),
    -- TrueDialog is another concrete subclass of Dialog whose
            methods do very different things and hold a totally
            different kind of state
The only hitch is -- the SAME object needs to be born as
an UninitializedDialog and then BECOME a TrueDialog when
it's about to be shown (or when the transition can't be
avoided for other reasons).  The AE may be holding a lot
of references to 'yonder dialog', and is entitled to consider
a dialog as a unitary object -- it's the UI server's business
to handle these optimizations transparently.

The obviously right approach would be to have the Dialog
object *change class*, of course.  But we were working in
C++.  So, we ended up with a typical letter/envelope
idiom, LOTS of boilerplate so that the envelope can delegate
a zillion methods to the letter, and so on.

THIS is what I think Glyph has in mind when he talks of
Promise objects.  Now -- this falls in the case you describe:
I *do* know the object is eventually going to be a
TrueDialog (if the promise needs to be kept -- out of
many hundreds dialogs, a typical run of the application
may well only need to actually-show a dozen or two).
But how would TrueDialog.__new__() help me obviate
the lack of a way to change someDialog.__class__?  It
would give me an empty TrueDialog, but how would I
use it to solve the above-sketched problem...?


> I'd rather not because it's a complicated check to write, and it may
> be difficult to explain the restrictions.  Here's an example of the
> kind of restriction that is unavoidable.

Doesn't this fall into an "identity of slots" case?  If the __class__
can be changed only when the slots of the old and new class
are identical, isn't this decently easy to check and explain?


> > (If you implement "reference.become(other)", for example, I won't
> > mind nearly so much <0.5 wink>)
>
> I'm not sure what that means, but if you could live with weak
> references, we could easily add a way to change the referent of a weak
> reference object.

Now THAT might help in my case -- the UI server would hand out
to the AE *weak* references to the Dialogs, and change the
referent when needed.  The only issue would seem to be the
very fact that the reference is weak -- what is going to hold the
dialog object[s] alive just as long as the AE has some reference[s]
to that object and then garbage-collect them?  Maybe, as well as
changing the weak reference's referent, we need a way to ask
for a weak reference that isn't really weak -- one that DOES keep
the referent alive -- but IS 'reseatable'.  If such not-really-weak
references (plus maybe some indeed-weak ones) were all the
extant references to the object, then 'becomes' could be
implemented for that case, and I believe this might be OK
for the cases I have in mind.


> For example, we're looking into optimizing access to builtins.  For
> this, we need to assume that the __builtin__ module is immutable; in
> addition, if a module doesn't have a global 'len', for example, we
> have to assume that such a global won't be inserted into the module
> dynamically.  I'm only aware of a very small number of applications
> that violate this constraint; I'd rather provide a separate explicit
> mechanism to override built-in functions so that the optimizer can be
> aware of a potential change and avoid it.

Absolutely no objection to THIS: if a mechanism is provided, then
having it be more explicit to afford greater performance in the
normal case seems quite OK to me.  What I'm afraid of (regarding
the change of __class__) is the risk of being left without ANY
simple and workable mechanism for tasks that, while perhaps
rare, are very important .  (Regarding the __dynamic__=1, as
discussed on another post, I have a different issue, namely, what
should the default be; it seems to me that builtins being immutable
as a default, and only changed via explicit mechanisms, is a fine
match for the patterns of normal code, but *classes* being
immutable by default and needing explicit turning off of this
optimization isn't quite as smooth).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  7 12:10:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:10:56 +0200
Subject: removing duplicate spaces from a string
References: <lvsb7.57979$oh1.21803460@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <9kmu1b$5e404$1@ID-91520.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <9kp3uf0272n@enews1.newsguy.com>

"Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at seed.chem.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:9kmu1b$5e404$1 at ID-91520.news.dfncis.de...
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> > Say I have the strings:
> >   'foo   bar      snafu'
> >   'fiddle     faddle  pip  pop'
> >
> > Are there any builtins that will allow me to compress the
> > duplicate spaces out so that the files look like:
> >   'foo bar snafu'
> >   'fiddle faddle pip pop'
>
> say the string is s, then you could proceed as follows:
>
> o = ''
> s = string.split(s,' ')
> for i in s:
>   if (i != ' '):
>     o = o + i + ' '
>
> This code segment will give you the final required ouput in o

Only if you change the ' ' into '' in the line "if (i != ' '):".

Even then, it's pretty slow.  Somewhat faster (and still
guaranteed to work only on *spaces*, without touching newlines,
tabs, etc) should be (warning, untested code):

o = ' '.join([piece for piece in s.split(' ') if piece])


Alex





From gtcopeland at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 21 14:31:44 2001
From: gtcopeland at earthlink.net (Greg Copeland)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 13:31:44 -0500
Subject: PyQt binary for Windows....but?
References: <4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc@posting.google.com> <3112302e.0108140120.5df65f46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2vgjh1cz3.fsf@mouse.copelandconsulting.net>

Does the KDE libs also work?  Last I looked, PyQT was really made up of
two libraries.  Once was the qt lib and the other way the kde lib.  Does
the KDE lib work/come with the Win distro?

Greg


dinceraydin at softhome.net (Dincer Aydin) writes:

> VC6 is needed for C++ development with QT. pyQT has a binary version
> for the non-commercial QT. The installer file is
> ftp://ftp.thekompany.com/pub/PyQt/PyQt-2.5-Qt-NC.exe (4.4 MB). The
> non-commercial QT installer is at
> ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/non-commercial/QtWin230-NonCommercial.exe
> (10.8 MB), if you do not have it yet.
> 
> After installing QT and pyQT , I tried running some of the pyQT
> examples but sip.dll could not be found. I manually put it in the
> python21/DLLs directory , and all worked fine.
> 
> Also, I noticed a small caveat in the non-comercial QT. The main
> window caption always starts with "[Freeware]". I noticed that if the
> caption you set up has the letters "Qt" (case sensitive), "[Freeware]"
> disappears.
>  
> While not complete, the book at
> http://stage.linuxports.com/pyqt/book1.htm may be worth taking a look.
> 
> Dincer Aydin
> www.geocities.com/dinceraydin/    
> 
> bobh at hslda.org (Robert) wrote in message news:<4a249347.0108131604.44a5c4fc at posting.google.com>...
> > I do not have VC6 which is needed to compile the Qt stuff from
> > Trolltech. If memory serves me right wasn't this package about a year
> > ago with a DLL? I used it then because everything came in the *box* so
> > to speak. I really like the way Python works with Qt and would really
> > like to use it.
> > 
> > I DO play on getting Black Adder when it comes out of beta but I
> > wanted to get a jumpstart on learning PyQt before the book comes out.
> > Oh well...still in a holding pattern.
> > 
> > Bob

-- 
Greg Copeland, Principal Consultant
Copeland Computer Consulting
--------------------------------------------------
PGP/GPG Key at http://www.keyserver.net
DE5E 6F1D 0B51 6758 A5D7  7DFE D785 A386 BD11 4FCD
--------------------------------------------------


From prem at engr.uky.edu  Thu Aug  2 13:34:18 2001
From: prem at engr.uky.edu (Prem Rachakonda)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:34:18 -0400
Subject: Zero division error!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108021330570.19621-100000@seahawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu>

Hi,
  I am writing a script for 'cubic spline interpolation' and when there is
a float value = 0.004, it is rounded off to zero and I am getting a Zero
Division error. Is it a python bug?

Prem.

x=array([2.056, 2.06, 2.064, 2.068, 2.072, 2.076, 2.08, 2.084, 2.088,
2.092, 2.096, 2.1, 2.104])
..
..
..
d[0]=x[1]-x[0]
c[1]=(y[1]-y[0])/d[0] 

Here d[0] is 0.004(equally spaced points) and is being considered as 0 and
I am getting this error.


____________________________________________________________
                       Prem Rachakonda
____________________________________________________________
Mailing Address:                               Work Address:
700 Woodland Ave., #E4          Teradyne Connection Systems,
Lexington, Kentucky-40508       44 Simon St., Mail Stop#006,
PH :859-323-2880(PP)            Nashua, NewHampshire - 03060
eFax:253-323-9795               Work Phone No : 603-879-3442
Fax:603-879-3046                 Res. Phone No.:603-247-2651



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  8 23:40:25 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:40:25 -0400
Subject: dynamic naming for hierarchical problem
References: <mailman.997302087.9988.python-list@python.org> <3B71D7E2.7EEAF170@engcorp.com> <4wlc7.138859$um3.839725@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3B720629.6E6DA245@engcorp.com>

Jeremy Jones wrote:
> 
> I have a web application that I need to test by HTTP posting different sets
> of data to it.  The hierarchical data model that I want to create will allow
> me to create different sets of tests each containing different sequences of
> data to post to the server and store the results of the test.  I want to be
> able to navigate through this hierarchical set of data using Tix.Tree.

No idea what that (Tix) is...

> (Plus, it will be fun and cool and really geeky! :-)

(Always a valid requirement for doing something. :)

> > Nevertheless, a lot of what you refer to above
> > seems to be provided by the Document Object Model
> 
> I will have to check out DOM tomorrow and see if it will help or not.  I
> have never messed around with XML, but I had actually thought about defining
> my tests in XML (another fun, cool, geeky thing to do) and parsing it with
> Python.  Is it fairly straightforward to keep the hierarchical structure of
> an XML/DOM document so that you can navigate down it (particularly in this
> instance - using a Tree widget)?

XML is used to represent the tree/hierarchy in a text file.  When you
parse it in using an XML parser, you end up with the data stored 
in the DOM.  That is, the DOM *is* the internal representation
in this case, so I guess, Yes, you can keep the hierarchical structure
of the XML data since that's the whole point of the DOM.  Access
to children and parents, manipulations in-memory, etc.  There
are other techniques/parsers, such as SAX, which might even
fill your needs better.  This is not going to be a ten-minute
job. :)

As for Tree widgets... definitely the DOM can map to the widget
and vice-versa, and depending on what Tix is, you may even find
examples of this ready-made for you.  I definitely remember 
seeing some simple code that would parse XML into memory and
represent it in a tree widget.  Mind you, that may have been
back in my Java days... :(  I hope someone else can point
you to a reference of doing this with Tix or something in Python.

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From average_python at safeadd.net  Mon Aug  6 17:20:20 2001
From: average_python at safeadd.net (average_python at safeadd.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:20:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: PEP238, syntax suggestion for floor division operator (not div)
Message-ID: <52570.18.187.0.27.997132820.squirrel@www.safeadd.net>

This is NOT a post debating whether or not PEP238 should be instantiated.

...rather, a (small) suggestion on the spelling for the new floor division
operator that does not seem to have been considered.

The current suggestion is to use '//'.  I instead suggest the 
backslash '\' for floor division for the following reasons:

1.  The backslash character has a natural "floor" mnemonic as it slopes to
the floor as read from left to right.

2.  Its name, "backslash", implies "backwards".  "Backwards" here, besides
the (appropriate) perjorative meaning, can also connote
"backwards-compatible"; i.e. classic Python division.

3.  No three-character operators: '\=' instead of '//='

My apologies if this has been discussed.  Google can't seem to search for
operators...

Thanks,

--mj

Still love ya...




From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Aug 20 11:25:57 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:25:57 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1.1 on old Debian box with Linux kernel 2.0.39
References: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com> <9lr4qe$d94$1@pea.uk.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3B812C05.530D2289@stroeder.com>

Duncan Grisby wrote:
> 
> In article <3B8106F2.B946B1B5 at stroeder.com>,
>  Michael Str?der  <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> 
> >I have troubles installing Python 2.1.1 on an old Debian box with
> >Linux kernel 2.0.39. The kernel sources are available. Building the
> >socket module fails with error message:
> >
> >/tmp/W3311/Python-2.1.1/Modules/socketmodule.c:178:
> >netpacket/packet.h: No such file or directory
> 
> I had the same problem on an ancient RedHat 5 machine, where the
> problem was due to glibc 2.0 missing out some things that are in glibc
> 2.1. The problems are all fixed in the CVS version of Python. (Unless
> they've broken again since my patch was added.)

Can you point me to your patch?

Ciao, Michael.


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 29 23:19:09 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:19:09 -0700
Subject: zope setup with @home connection
References: <ETGi7.12094$MK5.8503467@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com> <mailman.999003461.10891.python-list@python.org> <5517632f.0108291034.72a5ea2e@posting.google.com> <3b8d8469@news2.lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <9mkbjr$2p0h7$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I've used and recommended TZO the past three or four years.  How would you
rate them?

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Vivien M." <vivienm at emerald.ith.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:3b8d8469 at news2.lightlink.com...
> Jason Wisher <jason_wisher at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> If you're looking for a stable name, check out dyndns.org or other
services
> >> like it that allow you to associate stable names with dynamic
addresses.
> >> Also, hopefully your server won't get much use.  @home is an asymmetric
> >> connection.  Transfer rates from your machine to the net will be about
10x
> >> slower than rates to your machine.
>
> > Also check out DNS2Go (http://www.dns2go.com); free, reliable, and
> > much cooler than dyndns.
>
> Really?
>
> Let's take each of your points here:
> a) Free - last time I checked, our (dyndns.org) dynamic DNS service was
free
> too. Sure, having something like mydomain.com with us requires donations,
> but DNS2Go charges for it too.
> b) Reliable - Let's see here... DNS2Go has three DNS servers, all of which
> seem to be in the Detroit or neighbouring area, and two of which share the
> same UUnet connection. dyndns.org has DNS servers in four locations:
> Waltham, MA; Ithaca, NY; Fremont, CA; and London, UK. Not to mention that
we
> have a public status page at http://www.dyndns.org/status.shtml
> c) Cooler? How so? DNS is DNS, plain and simple.
>
> Honestly, I question your agenda, considering you seem to have posted to
two
> different newsgroups in a short period of time saying the same thing, but
I
> think the record ought to be set straight.
>
> Vivien
>
>
> --
> Vivien M.
> vivienm at dyndns.org
> Assistant System Administrator
> Dynamic DNS Network Services
> http://www.dyndns.org/



From zual at gh21.net  Fri Aug  3 02:52:02 2001
From: zual at gh21.net (Guillermo Kim)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:52:02 +0900
Subject: MySQL module
References: <3B6A46F0.F41E5B74@umdnj.edu>
Message-ID: <9kdhfh$3lp$1@news2.kornet.net>

Maybe here ...
http://www.mysql.com/Downloads/Contrib/MySQLmodule-1.4.tar.gz

another ..
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mysql-python/





"Andrey Revyakin" <revyakag at umdnj.edu> wrote in message
news:3B6A46F0.F41E5B74 at umdnj.edu...
> ...  I know it exists, but where can I get it? Please help!
>
> Andrey.
>




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Aug 22 05:56:21 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:56:21 +0100
Subject: Activestate python vs. Python 2.1.1
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78C006@intrepid>

> From:	Guido van Rossum [SMTP:guido at python.org]
> Actually, ActivePython is an extended subset of the standard
> distribution -- it doesn't include IDLE and the Tcl/Tk libraries
> necessary for Tkinter support.  IDLE is a pretty good alternative to
> Pythonwin.
 
I believe that ActivePython *does* include IDLE and Tkinter these days,
though older releases didn't.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Aug 27 21:47:13 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 21:47:13 -0400
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <uu1ytrw93.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <9pjlotkel6c130nech7aauff70l7r736jd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uk7zpklb2.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:

> Thanks. I'm looking at that, and it looks like it might be a very good
> approach.

Ah, well just to kick start things - here's a lock function that one
of my backup scripts uses to lock the database backup files in a
directory before beginning retrieval of the backup to a central
location (to avoid the remote host starting a new backup).  Nothing
fancy, just some periodic attempts.  Since CreateFile doesn't have the
concept of a timeout to obtain the lock, you have to handle your own
retries.  Under heavy load, this does mean in theory it's possible for
one process to starve and never get the lock, depending on the retry
time.

When the process is done, just "win32file.CloseHandle(lock_file)" on
the handle returned from this function.

Since it's an open file lock, if the process owning it happens to die,
the file will still be around, but the next process to try will be
able to open it without problems.  To be nice, my backup task does
explicitly try to remove the lock file when done (inside a try/except
clause in case someone else immediately grabs the lock).

	  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
def LockDB(LockName):
    lock_file = None

    # Attempt to open lock file to ensure access.  We keep trying
    # to obtain lock for up to 60 seconds, trying every 10
    lock_start   = time.time()
    lock_current = lock_start
    while (1):
        try:
            lock_file = win32file.CreateFile(LockName,
                                             win32file.GENERIC_WRITE,
                                             0,   # Exclusive access
                                             None,
                                             win32file.OPEN_ALWAYS,
                                             0,0)
        except:
            if (lock_current == lock_start):
                traceback.print_exc(0)
                print "Waiting for database backup lock file \"%s\"" % \
                      LockName

            if ((lock_current - lock_start) < 60):
                time.sleep(10)
                lock_current = time.time()
            else:
                print "Unable to obtain access to database backup lock file"
                break

        else:
            break

    return lock_file
	  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Sun Aug  5 09:56:56 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 13:56:56 GMT
Subject: Norton AV report on ActiveState build 210 src?
References: <3B6AAD19.4B781BED@raqia.com> <aCCa7.66499$EP6.15351473@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B6B0EE0.C341C825@ActiveState.com> <mailman.996880207.6548.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B6D5113.6070506@ActiveState.com>

Paul Prescod wrote:
> Ironically, I got several emails from corporate virus filters indicating
> that this batch file is in fact recognized as a virus. It obviously
> isn't a virus but Norton is getting triggered on a very ordinary bit of
> batch file text. We will obfuscate the text enough to slip by Norton for
> the next release of ActivePython.

I have checked in a "fixed" swig.bat (thanks Dan!) so the next 
ActivePython should scan cleanly...

Mark.




From phr-n2001 at nightsong.com  Wed Aug 15 22:36:45 2001
From: phr-n2001 at nightsong.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 19:36:45 -0700
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <7xd75xlv86.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <b56dl9.ie1.ln@192.168.0.1> <7xwv45sqhk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.997863323.10212.python-list@python.org> <7xofphd4ql.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <slrn9nlsu9.js2.quinn@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <7x66borarm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) writes:
> >What's wanted is something equivalent to
> >
> >   sum = 0
> >   i = 1
> >   while i <= 100 :
> >      sum = sum + i
> >      i = i + 1
> 
> In python, as in most languages (especially most functional languages),
> space and time efficiency is not the goal.  It's possibly a goal, but not
> *the* goal.  Programmer efficiency is the goal.

Well, I'd like to think getting practical, runnable programs is also
a goal, and modularity is a goal, e.g. rather than a fixed limit of 100
you're much more likely to code something like

   def sum(n): 
     s=0
     for i in range(n+1):
        s = s + i
     return s

> I have a feeling that you're not really running out of memory because of your
> 100 element lists.  Instead, I think some assembly-loving part of you,
> fiercely devoted to that tin god eifficiency, is exclaiming "but it's not as
> efficient as it could be!  forget the big picture, optimization is the key!".

No not for 100 element lists.  But if you want to compute sum(100)
today, you may want sum(1000000000) tomorrow.  But the natural and
obvious way to write the code then crashes from running out of memory.

> Ignore that annoying little voice.  Wait until you actually have a problem, in
> memory or speed.  Then find out which part of your program has the problem.
> Then use a less naive algorithm:
> 
> def sum(low, high):
>     p = high - low + 1
>     if p % 2:
>         return (low + high) * (p // 2) + (low + high)//2
>     else:
>         return (low + high) * (p // 2)

Well, you could actually just say

  def sum(low,high): 
     return (high+low)*(high-low+1)/2

(think about it).  However, that's entirely beside the point, which is
the most natural idiom for doing something n times, the equivalent of
"do i=1,n" in Fortran or "for i=1 to n" in Basic, goes and allocates
a potentially enormous amount of memory completely unnecessarily.
The summation example was just an illustration, not a computation
that anyone would actually want to do that way.

If it makes you feel better about algorithms, suppose instead you're
adding up just the primes instead of all the numbers:

  def sum_primes(n):  # sum of all primes < n
    s=0   
    for i in range(n):
      if is_prime (i): s=s+i
    return s

Now you run sum_primes(100) and it works fine, so you run
sum_primes(100000000) expecting it to take a few hours.  Instead it
fills several gigabytes of virtual memory and thrashes its brains out.
I don't see any obvious simple algorithmic improvements but it would
sure be nice if there was a looping construct that did the obvious
thing and simply counted through the range instead of allocating a
sequence.

> >Here's another one: the print statement puts a gratuituous space after
> >each thing you print.  So
> >
> >   for i in ['a','b','c']:
> >     print i,
> >
> >prints "a b c " instead of "abc".
> 
> The spaces are as gratuitous as all the spaces you put in between your words.

The spaces that I put between my words are put there by me, not by Emacs.
If I want to leave out the spaces, Emacsdoesn'tstopme. 

> It has a lot of common sense: spaces seperate things nicely.  'print' is
> supposed to be quick and easy to use for printing out short messages.  That's
> why it's a statement (no parens), automatically converts its arguments to
> strings, puts spaces in between its elements, and puts a newline on the end (I
> personally wouldn't mind if we dropped the "print foo," syntax, which is
> irregular and tends to lead to confusing extraneous softspace spaces).  If
> 'print' didn't put in all those gratuitous spaces and newlines, I'd wind up
> having to put them in by hand myself most of the time (as I do in some other
> languages).

The issue is that if you want them, it's easy to put them in, but if
you don't want them and the print statement puts them in anyway, it's
not so easy to get rid of them.  I think your objection to the extraneous
spaces from "print foo," is the exact same thing I'm objecting to, but
the solution is for the print statement to just print what you tell it,
without inserting extra spaces.

> If you want "low level" control over your IO, use the low level
> interface: sys.stdout.write.  'print' is optimized for casual use.
> You can also use the string formatting operator, %.

Yes, but if you have to resort to such tricks as sys.stdout.write, it
makes Python less pleasant to program in.  Is there a way to get rid
of the extra space with the string formatting operator?


From web.mail at lycos.com  Fri Aug 17 00:35:39 2001
From: web.mail at lycos.com (Alan Green)
Date: 16 Aug 2001 21:35:39 -0700
Subject: Debugging Multi-Threaded Python Programs
References: <mailman.997932325.2418.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <270c68fe.0108162035.4f663852@posting.google.com>

<brueckd at tbye.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.997932325.2418.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Anyway, for profiling I got around it by importing the thread module and
> replacing its start_thread (or whatever it's called) function with my own
> that called the old function and then, in the new thread, set the profiler
> function to that of the parent. I seem to remember a few other little
> tweaks needed to get it to work but that was the main one. I don't know if
> the same thing would work with the debugger, but I thought I'd at least
> toss it out as an idea.
> 
> -Dave

Yep. I thought about this. This functionality would seem to belong in
the bdb module. Or maybe the best way to go about it would be to
change the C thread implementation so that newly created threads
inherited the sys.settrace() function of their parent (More thought
required).

Having done that, I 'just' need to modify any one of the GUI debuggers
to be thread aware. Should be 'just' a weekend's worth of work <g>.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Alan.


From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sun Aug 12 10:55:06 2001
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 10:55:06 -0400
Subject: gnus/nnml to mbox converter with python
In-Reply-To: <87g0aybfki.fsf@harry.my.net>
References: <87g0aybfki.fsf@harry.my.net>
Message-ID: <oqelqh49bp.fsf@lin2.sram.qc.ca>

> I am considering writing a tool to convert mails out of the gnus/nnml
> mailspool format to ordinary mbox format (with python).  Before rolling
> up the sleeves I wanted to know if something similar has been done before.

My feeling is that this should be an easy job if you want it quick.

You ignore the `.overview' file, and copy all other files, when their name
is a decimal number.  I would pay attention at properly sorting the files by
numerical value.  For each file copied, you need to prepend an envelope line
(the `From ' line), and postpend maybe one or two white lines.  The envelope
`From ' could be any valid one, it does not need to especially relate to
the following message, as its contents is usually ignored in other tools.

However, if you want to do something more polished, like producing
read status lines in mail headers, you have to read `~/.newsrc' and
`~/.newsrc.eld' to extract the relevant information.  You might also want
to clean out some Emacs generated headers, like X-Coding, X-Gnus-Mail-Source
or Xref.  You decide of the level of difficulty you want :-).  Most probably,
you do not need that, and it may be kept simple.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard



From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug 23 19:00:55 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 23:00:55 GMT
Subject: sys._exit()
References: <mailman.998520634.27371.python-list@python.org> <998544414.810105@yabetcha.drizzle.com> <uk7zuqxnw.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <9m41v7$hcc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com>:
| Donn Cave <donn at drizzle.com> writes:
|
|> Well, note that the fork runs in a separate address space and can't
|> modify the parent's state.
|
| No, but system resources like file handles are just copied literally
| into the client's address space (not 'dup'd).  So if the client were
| to close a common handle, the parent's handle would then become
| invalid.  (Thus the typical create pipe, fork, and then have
| parent/child carefully close opposite ends of the pipe handles before
| using the other set of handles).

I am not clear on what you mean here.  Your parenthetic observation
about fork and pipe is right, but I would say it shows that the parent
is safe from the child:  "using the other set of handles" means each
reads from the descriptors closed by the other - which obviously didn't
make the descriptors invalid!  A fork certainly can't close anything
in its parent.

Actually the point of that pipe closing ritual will be vaguely familiar
to Python programmers, because it's working with a reference counting
feature in the kernel.  The device close doesn't happen until all the
descriptors close, and that means dups and fork copies.  Normal pipe
usage depends on the pipe device to close when the writer is through,
yielding end of file for the reader, and that can't happen if the
reader has accidentally kept its own write end descriptor copy open.
So in this sense of device finalization, yes, the parent could get
end of file or something.

But posix._exit() will eventually close whatever descriptors were
open in the fork, that can't be helped.  I will stick with my comments
about process-buffered output and trapping SystemExit.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com


From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Thu Aug  9 03:33:09 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 09 Aug 2001 09:33:09 +0200
Subject: namespace confusion
References: <3B7135E2.40701@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yv2ae197kne.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Mark Robinson <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> writes:
> I have a program that is organised in three files as follows:
> 
> #main.py
> #########
> 
> from first import *
> from second import *
> 
> functfirst() #from first
> functSecond() #from second
> 
> ########################
> 
> #first.py
> ##########
> 
> functfirst()
> 
> ************
> 
> #second.py
> ##########
> 
> from first import *
> 
> def functCecond():
> 	functfirst() #
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> The problem I am having is I can't access the functfirst() from
> second.py.

Its easier than you think. You don't import first.py into second.py
and so you don't access to its functions. The reason is that every
import creates a totally new namespace for the created module. AFAIK
that namespace contains by default always the same things for each and
every module. You can change that default population only with
`import' statements in the imported module.

It is *not* the case that an imported module inherits its globals()
from the importing module. Try this:

## main.py
GAGA = 1
import first.py

## first.py
print GAGA

and you'll get an error message precisely because the GAGA being
global in main.py is *not* inherited in the globals of the imported
first.py .

Insofar two consecutive import statements as you use behave quite
different from two consecutive #include directives in a C program.

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From gregor at mediasupervision.de  Mon Aug 20 09:18:51 2001
From: gregor at mediasupervision.de (Gregor Hoffleit)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:18:51 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1.1 on old Debian box with Linux kernel 2.0.39
In-Reply-To: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com>
References: <3B8106F2.B946B1B5@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <20010820151851.B4970@mediasupervision.de>

* Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> [010820 14:59]:
> I have troubles installing Python 2.1.1 on an old Debian box with
> Linux kernel 2.0.39. The kernel sources are available. Building the
> socket module fails with error message:
> 
> /tmp/W3311/Python-2.1.1/Modules/socketmodule.c:178:
> netpacket/packet.h: No such file or directory

Which Debian version is this ?

Which libc version is installed ('dpkg -l "libc*" |grep ii') ?

    Gregor



From Irina.Kotlova at lhsl.com  Thu Aug 30 09:54:26 2001
From: Irina.Kotlova at lhsl.com (Irina Kotlova)
Date: 30 Aug 2001 06:54:26 -0700
Subject: Steps to install Python in debug mode
Message-ID: <97592a5.0108300554.1c7b1852@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

Could anyone describe the details of configuring Python (2.1 for
instance) in debug mode?

I already have Python 2.1 Release installed. If I compile "pythoncore"
and then "python" from pcbuild and copy Python21_d.lib, Python21_d.dll
and Python21_d.exe into the appropriate places, then I still can't
make Python work in debug mode.

Any help is very appreciated. Thank you,
Irina


From jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 31 10:07:32 2001
From: jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 09:07:32 -0500
Subject: emulating sequences
Message-ID: <1r4rqo726z.fsf@video.bsd.uchicago.edu>

I have a user defined type that I would like to behave like a
sequence, eg

results = MyType()
for result in results:
        blah

Talking about special methods, Beazley in 'Essential Python' says that
the following methods are used by objects that want to emulate
sequence and mapping objects:

__len__, __getitem__, __setitem__, __delitem__, __getslice__,
__setslice__, __delslice__

If I implement each of these for MyType, then can I get the desired
behavior?  If so, is there a subset that is sufficient just to get the
'in' behavior? 

Finally, if you have a sequence, what is the best way to get an index
of the first match of a value in a find command, similar to the C++

   i = find(s.begin(), s.end(), val)

Is there such a function, and if so, what is the illegal value
indicating failure to find?

Thanks,
John Hunter


From markus at schabi.de  Wed Aug 22 15:26:09 2001
From: markus at schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:26:09 +0200
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org> <ku66bhbwmq.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.998398653.29844.python-list@python.org> <kuwv3xa4pm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <1799566.CbtlEUcBR6@lunix.schabi.de>

Hi,

Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> schrub:

> In article <mailman.998398653.29844.python-list at python.org>, Skip
> Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> 
> | The limitations of Unix's CPU time granularity and the single-task
> | nature of Windows doesn't mean the semantics of time.clock should be
> | broken to get
> | higher resolution.  Besides, what about NT?  Doesn't it distinguish
> | between tasks?
> 
> the windows time.clock() calls a win32 api function that reads the
> time stamp counter register that x86 cpus have, and then divides it by
> the number of time stamp counter ticks per second. the time stamp
> counter does not stop at any point. i would guess that it works the
> same on the dos-based windows versions and on the nt-based ones.

Yes, that's right. And one problem with this TSC Register is when your 
CPU changes the clock frequency, as it is common on laptops.

The TSC really counts the CPU cycles since the last reboot of the 
machine, nothing more and nothing less.

markus
-- 
1) Customers cause problems.
2) Marketing is trying to create more customers.
Therefore:
3) Marketing is evil.  (Grand Edwards in comp.lang.python)


From paulsid at home.com  Mon Aug  6 00:01:37 2001
From: paulsid at home.com (Paul Sidorsky)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:01:37 -0600
Subject: interpreter use... help?
References: <BZnb7.1612$96.1236@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <3B6E16A1.B5A8A032@home.com>

CCLittle wrote:

> Here is what I do:
> 
> >>> try:
>            action1()
>            except TypeError:
> 
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >>>
> 
> The except part is highlighted.
> I just can't make the except go one indentation level lower even by pressing
> the backspace!
> Short of putting everything inside a module and importing, is there a way
> around this?

This works for me in IDLE under WinME:

> Python 2.1 (#15, Apr 16 2001, 18:25:49) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
> >>> exc = 0
> >>> try:
>         item = lst[1]
> except:
>         exc = 1
> 
> 
> >>> exc
> 1

The only formatting I had to do was to press backspace once on the except line
which put the cursor in the first column.

Notice that the try and except don't line up visually.  I guess the trick is to
mentally snip out the ">>><space>" part.

I tried in the plain command line interpreter, too.  There you have to do the
tabbing yourself, but you get the "..." prompt so the code does line up.

-- 
======================================================================
Paul Sidorsky                                          Calgary, Canada
paulsid at home.com                      http://members.home.net/paulsid/



From grante at visi.com  Fri Aug 31 09:23:45 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:23:45 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9ov43m.ook.grante@grante.comtrol.com>

In article <auLj7.10$j9.166 at castor.casema.net>, jeroen paul goudsmit wrote:

>> What widget set do you prefer?

> just a gui for windows...

[BTW, top-quoting isn't really considered kosher on Usenet.]

If by "windows" you mean Microsoft Windows, then your choices are

 Tkinter
 wxWindows
 MFC
 
Follow the links in my previous posting.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! I'm out of
                                  at               work...I could go into
                               visi.com            shock absorbers...or SCUBA
                                                   GEAR!!


From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 07:30:08 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:30:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Upgrading Python Breaks Extensions; Fix proposal
In-Reply-To: <4O1PEhAvgKj7EwqO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290727150.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> In Tcl land, these problems caused the powers that be to implement their
> own indirection scheme. Effectively the extension is passed a pointer to
> a list of pointers. The extension indirects through them to get at the
> real api. They have various rules to make things work reasonably when
> pointers get added/subtracted to the real API. Seems to work quite well,
> but there's a fixed time and space penalty.

Oh man. Now THAT's bad...

> The windows problem comes because the name of the main Python dll is
> embedded in the extension. I've never been too sure exactly how linking
> takes place with win32, probably because the dll idea changed between
> traditional windows and win32.

The only real change is 32-bit ordinals versus 16-bit ordinals.

> One possible way to extend the life of an API compatible extension would
> be to use an intermediate stub proxy for the original python dll. So the
> extension
>
> X.pyd links to Python20.dll
>
> Python21.dll is issued along with a stub proxy for all of the 20 API
> points this is called naturally enough Python20.dll, but would really be
> an indirection vector.

No, because if a program depends on 2.0 working a certain way then it would
break anyways with 2.1, so we'd be back where we were.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From slinkp23 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 21:14:17 2001
From: slinkp23 at yahoo.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:14:17 GMT
Subject: Dumb python questions
References: <mailman.997933639.5254.python-list@python.org> <7xy9okeeha.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lfpu9$fv6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <7xr8u96tni.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9nu46t.nd2.slinkp23@roaddog.armsnet>

On 18 Aug 2001 12:43:29 -0700, Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote:
>m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) writes:
>> > I think I'm reacting not as much to language differences as to
>> > differences in system maturity.  Whenever I write something in Perl or
>> > CL, and I need to do something like turn an array into a string,
>> 
>> Do you mean a Python list? ''.join(mylist)
>
>No I mean a list of character values, like (97,98,99) => "abc".

Use the chr() built-in function to convert each list item to
ascii. For this, it's handy to use either a list comprehension (new
for python 2.x), or the map() function. Either way, you can then join
the result into a string. One example:

>>> ilist = range(65, 70)
>>> alist = [chr(x) for x in ilist]
>>> # OR: alist = map(chr, ilist)
>>> alist
['A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E']
>>> ''.join(alist)
'ABCDE'

>> > somebody seems to have faced that problem before and it's been taken
>> > care of in some reasonably thought-out way.  In Python, I often feel
>> > like I'm doing something that hasn't been done much before.
>> 
>> In part I suspect that's due to your inexperience with the language, but
>> please keep pointing out the things that are missing. :)
>
>Here's one: say I have a long int, like x = 7**77777L.  How can I tell
>how many bits it takes to express that number in binary?

I think most people deal with binary data in python as strings.
 fastest thing I can think of is to use oct() or hex() to convert your
number to a string representation, then compute from the length of
that.
 
For example, if you can work with a count of nibbles rather than
bits, this will work:

def nibbles_needed(x):
    h = hex(long(x))
    return len(h) - 3  # compensate for leading '0x' and trailing 'L'

>From this you can do bytes:

def bytes_needed(x):
    n = nibbles_needed(x)
    bytes, remainder = divmod(n, 2)
    if remainder: return bytes + remainder
    else: return bytes


A test run:

>>> bytes_needed(100)
1
>>> bytes_needed(255)
1
>>> bytes_needed(256)
2
>>> bytes_needed(7**77777L)
27294


>  How can I
>convert it into a packed character string (i.e. represent it in string
>form with 8 bits/char so I can write it to a file)?  The answers I can
>think of involve weird kludges and/or are unacceptably slow.

Hmmm... my first thought was struct.pack but you'd first need to chop
the long up into (literally) byte-size pieces. And even when you've
done that, struct.pack() won't take a list as an argument.

Aside from struct, there's the binascii module which you might find
useful. For example, here's a pretty fast way to do what you asked
for:

>>> from binascii import a2b_hex
>>> def charlist(x):
...    x = long(x)
...    # Now create a hex representation,
...    # but without the leading 'Ox' or trailing 'L'.
...    h = hex(x)[2:-1] 
...    # Split that up into actual bytes.
...    bytes = [h[i:i+2] for i in range(0,len(h),2)]
...    chars = [a2b_hex(b) for b in bytes]
...    return chars
...
>>> charlist(97)
['a']
>>> charlist((97 * 2 ** 8) + 98)
['a', 'b']
>>> x = charlist(7**77777L)
>>> len(x)
27294


Hope that helps!







From tim.one at home.com  Fri Aug 10 01:56:33 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:56:33 -0400
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow
In-Reply-To: <9kurh302g4k@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEENELEAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Grant Griffin]
> I tried the following today:
> 
>    def gen_sectors1():
>        print 'Generating (Version 1)...',
>        s = '' 
>        for i in xrange(65536):
>            s += chr(i & 0xFF)
>        for i in xrange(65536):
>            s += chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF);
>        print 'done'
>        return s

You should be much happier with this:

def gen_sectors2():
    import array
    print 'Generating (Version 2)...',
    s = array.array('c')
    for i in xrange(65536):
        s.append(chr(i & 0xFF))
    for i in xrange(65536):
        s.append(chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF))
    print 'done'
    return s.tostring()

character-arrays-can-be-mutated-in-place-ly y'rs  - tim




From jhardcastle at solarc.com  Tue Aug 21 09:08:28 2001
From: jhardcastle at solarc.com (Jeff)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 06:08:28 -0700
Subject: reducing if statements and error handling
Message-ID: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com>

Another easy newbie question here...  Suppose I have a method that
accepts a string (called 'value') as an argument.  I want the method
to check to see if the contents of the string is all numbers.  Here's
my logic:

def checkvalue(value):
   if value.isdigit():
        print 'success: ' + value + ' is a valid entry'
        return 1
   else:
        print 'error: ' + value + ' is NOT a valid entry'
        return -1

Questions:
1) can I reduce this "if" logic down to one statement, perhaps using
lambdas?
2) is there a recommended approach for throwing errors?  In this case,
I'd want to throw an error if the text is not a number and stop
processing.  Can I define a custom exception to do that?  Should I
catch the error in the logic that called the method and throw the
exception there if the method returns a "-1", or should I throw the
exception here?
              
Thanks!
Jeff


From beppu at binq.org  Thu Aug 23 10:17:09 2001
From: beppu at binq.org (John Beppu)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:17:09 -0700
Subject: possibly trivial newbie list/array question
In-Reply-To: <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <f3ccacbf.0108211646.28793074@posting.google.com> <slrn9o6otc.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <slrn9o6qhq.11k.syt@pegasus.logilab.fr> <9lvtf5018j5@enews3.newsguy.com> <7x3d6kcs11.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <mailman.998482775.12377.python-list@python.org> <7xy9obovj8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20010823071709.A19659@BinQ.org>

[  date  ] 2001/08/23 | Thursday | 04:39 AM
[ author ] Paul Rubin <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> 

> Can you tell me the actual purpose of list comprehension?  
> 
>         [f(x) for x in a]
> 
> just seems like confusing syntactic hair that's otherwise equivalent
> to, though as we've seen sometimes slower than,
> 
>         map(lambda x: f(x), a).
> 
> Am I missing something?  Unless there's more to it than I see (which
> is quite possible), I don't understand why this feature made it into
> the language.

<disclaimer> I'm a perl programmer, <disclaimer> but there are
similar constructs in perl, and (in perl) the difference is this.

    * map creates a new list while iterating over a list
    * for (or foreach) just iterates over a list

I don't know if this is the case in python, but in perl, people
are strongly discouraged from using map when the list it generates
is not being used.  When you just want to iterate over a list,
use for or foreach, instead of map.

Again, this is for perl, and I don't know if it applies to python,
but I figured it might be informative.



-- 
package wuv'apqvjgt;($_=join('',(*PgtnHcemgt))) # print map "beppu\@$_\n", qw(
=~ s/([HaP])(?!e)/ \U>$1/g;s/^.|:| (?=A)|>//g;y # cpan.org  lbox.org  binq.org
/c-z/a-u/;print"J$_\n";#$^%$^X at .^ <!-- japh --> # oss.lineo.com codepoet.org);



From m-turk at nwu.edu  Tue Aug 21 15:23:02 2001
From: m-turk at nwu.edu (Matthew Turk)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:23:02 GMT
Subject: Python-Debug.zip
Message-ID: <slrn9o5dem.no.m-turk@dhcp101054.res-hall.nwu.edu>

I know this is a terribly stupid question, but I don't see a directory
structure in the ZIP file, so I wanted to take care that all of the
contents of the Python-2.1-Debug.zip go in the right place.  Where
should I put the items?

(This is a sort-of-followup to my previous question - I'm now
compiling with setup.py and --debug, and it needs python21_d.dll,
which is in this package.)

Thanks!



mjt
--------------------------------------------------
Matthew J. Turk <m-turk at nwu.edu>      ICQ: 3856787
"Music is the Best." - FZ       www.dailyvault.com


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Sun Aug  5 20:31:06 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 02:31:06 +0200
Subject: Anygui needs a Tkinter programmer
Message-ID: <9kkoga$6vj$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

The Anygui project is well underway, but needs an
adventurous Tkinter programmer. This is an open
source project, aiming to create a generic front-end
to several (eventually, hopefully most) of the GUI
packages available for Python. For more info, see
the project web page:

    http://anygui.sf.net

No long-term commitment is necessary.

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland         http://www.hetland.org

 "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in
  it, doesn't go away."           -- Philip K. Dick





From timd at macquarie.com.au  Tue Aug 14 19:14:45 2001
From: timd at macquarie.com.au (Timothy Docker)
Date: 15 Aug 2001 09:14:45 +1000
Subject: wxPython Or Tkinter Advise PLEASEEEEEEEEE
References: <mailman.997687902.6272.python-list@python.org> <MmVd7.115$Pm5.138891@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <m4ielqeqlne.fsf@macquarie.com.au>

> The big downside to wxPython for me
> is that the port to the Macintosh is not complete yet, though wxWindows,
> which wxPython is built on top of, is usable today. I get mixed reports on
> Solaris, but I think it works there too.

It works fine on Solaris, with bit of autoconf/makefile tweaking (I
didn't have to change a single line of code though).

Tim


From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Fri Aug 31 09:21:40 2001
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 14:21:40 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Windows and file input in Python
References: <9ml0uf$cuv$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl> <2df3d89d.0108301750.6f2c5f61@posting.google.com> <9mnrs712i70@enews2.newsguy.com> <9mntda$dch$1@zeus.man.szczecin.pl>
Message-ID: <slrn9ov3r4.fvi.andrew-usenet@chiark.greenend.org.uk>

In article <9mntda$dch$1 at zeus.man.szczecin.pl>, Piotr Legiecki wrote:

>Ok. Where can I find the cygwin distribution of python? I'v looked around
>the www.cygwin.com sites, but with no luck.
>

You just need to run the cygwin installer, and using the installer
ensure that the python packages are selected. (I believe they are by
default).

The installer then acquires (from a local repository or via FTP/HTTP)
the packages you've selected, and installs them.

Hope this helps.

-- 
"Eternal life is now on my trail,
 Got my red glitter coffin, man, just need one last nail..."
 - Jeff Buckley, "Eternal Life" ('Grace')
 adw27 at cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk


From greg at electricrain.com  Mon Aug 27 23:26:39 2001
From: greg at electricrain.com (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:26:39 -0700
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
In-Reply-To: <915a998f.0108220858.3f062acd@posting.google.com>; from hamish_lawson@yahoo.co.uk on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 09:58:59AM -0700
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <915a998f.0108220858.3f062acd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20010827202639.A7841@zot.electricrain.com>

Yuck IMHO.  that would make the callable() function much less useful
for distinguishing between things that are meant to be called vs.
things that just happen to return themselves when called.  (lots of
existing code would break)

On Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 09:58:59AM -0700, Hamish Lawson wrote:
> While on this subject, would it be an idea to make built-in types
> callable, so that you just call an object without caring whether it
> was a function/method or a simple type? Thus:
> 
> x = 10
> 
> def y():
>     return 10
> 
> x()
> y()

-- 
Gregory P. Smith   gnupg/pgp: http://electricrain.com/greg/keys/
                   C379 1F92 3703 52C9 87C4  BE58 6CDA DB87 105D 9163



From neal at metaslash.com  Tue Aug  7 13:24:03 2001
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:24:03 -0400
Subject: bug or feature? Re: [Python-Dev] ANN: PyChecker v0.8
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108071940290.1671-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <3B702433.1CA0D418@metaslash.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> I am not sure if it is a bug or feature, but I have files
> named like: 01.001.py, and PyChecker refuses to check them

It's a feature, of course. :-)

> Is there any limitation on calling Python _programs_ without any dots
> others than before 'py'? Or do I need to rename all those files?

I don't know of a limitation in python program names.  But you can't use
the import statement to import files that begin with a number,
have punctation, etc.

PyChecker uses the imp module which seems to handle these cases fine.  
However, PyChecker doesn't work well (ie, at all) with . in the name 
unless the . represents a package (eg, import xml.sax).

I really need to fix the package handling.  I should be able to fix
this problem at the same time.

> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

Spasibo,
Neal



From mats at laplaza.org  Sat Aug 25 11:12:42 2001
From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:12:42 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1.1 install glitch (Windows binary)
References: <8iaeot0r5td7qbh5t3bdnj5pkrhp48nph1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b87bb3a.299789364@news.laplaza.org>

On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:36:29 -0700, Kirby Urner
<urner at alumni.princeton.edu> wrote:

:
:I've just reinstalled 2.1.1. final and find that the 
:file association string I'd manually fixed awhile ago 
:was reset back to:
:
:   D:\Program Files\Python21\python.exe "%1" %*
:
:This is under Folder Options, where you scroll down
:to the PY snake icon, click Advanced | Edit and see
:the boot string associated with PY files.
:
:What __should__ be the boot string is:
:
:   "D:\Program Files\Python21\python.exe" %1 %1
:
:This problem may be confined to those setups wherein
:Python is installed in a path which includes spaces in the
:pathname (as in "Program Files").

This sounds right.  I remember a bit of a struggle to get this right
for Jython, which builds a "script" (shell or .bat, depending on what
you're running on when you launch the installer) which includes both
the path to the Jython files, and the path to the Java interpreter.
The joy with windows is that in some places paths with spaces need
quoting and in some they don't (don't ask me the rules!)

One answer: don't install in "Program Files".  Since I use the uwin
korn shell on windows anyway, the spaces were driving me batty.

Mats Wichmann



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Aug 14 09:52:11 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:52:11 +0200
Subject: PyXML DOM question: adding the DOCTYPE
References: <1136f745.0108131101.20211496@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <j4n152vjec.fsf@porthos.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

pibble at yahoo.com (Preston Landers) writes:

> Everything is peachy keen with the output except one thing: I need a
> <!DOCTYPE> meta-element at the top of the document, and I can't seem
> to get minidom to include this.  The scanty documentation provides few
> clues for this puzzle.

In short, the W3C DOM does not support doctypes in any reasonable way
and minidom implements just the required minimum.

I would recommend that you write the <?xml header and the DOCTYPE
declaration yourself, and then invoke writexml on the documentElement,
instead of invoking toxml.

Regards,
Martin


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 18 14:15:24 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:15:24 -0500
Subject: constant in python?
In-Reply-To: <9lm70i01sn@enews3.newsguy.com>
References: <Bmef7.269051$qv3.55520813@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>
        <9ljt9u02oa9@enews2.newsguy.com>
        <sqff7.779$2k4.75679@news.pacbell.net>
        <9ll72t01rbk@enews2.newsguy.com>
        <3B7E5355.675D569B@stroeder.com>
        <9lm70i01sn@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <15230.45244.769951.680012@beluga.mojam.com>

    >> IMHO constants are useful in compiled languages because they are
    >> immutable and therefore a compiler can insert them as "in-line"
    >> operands for optimization.

    Alex> Sure, no doubt you can gain a microsecond or two each time a
    Alex> constant is a literal rather than having to be fetched anew from
    Alex> the module owning it.  But, so what?!  Any good Python developer
    Alex> using a module attribute (that is not meant to change) in a tight
    Alex> loop that'a performance hot-spot would surely 'hoist' the module
    Alex> access out of the loop, using a local function variable instead
    Alex> (which is just as fast to access as a literal).

I'll add a couple things to reinforce Alex's arguments.  One, see PEP 0266
for a possible solution to this particular performance problem, small though
it is.  Two, constant literals used within a function, e.g., the "5" in this
function:

    def f(a):
        return a+5

are accessed no faster than local variables the way the current virtual
machine works.  Constant literals do not appear in the instruction stream
itself.  They are stored in a per-function array of constants which is
accessed with roughly the same speed as the local variables array.  In fact,
some things you'd naively think would be faster (because they would be in
most any similar C program), such as

    def f(a):
        return a+(1.0+8j)

are actually slower, because the compiler currently generates two constant
loads and an add.  (Same thing applies for tuples of constants.)

    Alex> The design of the Python language is *NOT* traditionally driven by
    Alex> an obsession with micro-optimizations -- thanks be, or it would
    Alex> most definitely _NOT_ be Python.  These misplaced performance-
    Alex> related worries surely can't justify perverting the language by
    Alex> adding a built-in "constant".

Agreed.  There are far more important things to worry about performance-
wise.  Consider, for example, the table of dynamic opcode frequencies
Marc-Andre Lemburg posted to python-dev in July 2000:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-July/007609.html

Ignore the SET_LINENO counts because "python -O" already zaps them.  Of the
remaining opcodes in his table, roughly 65% of them do nothing but move data
onto, off of, or within the stack.  I consider all the following as data
movement opcodes: LOAD_FAST, LOAD_CONST, LOAD_NAME, LOAD_GLOBAL, STORE_FAST,
POP_TOP, LOAD_ATTR, STORE_NAME, and STORE_ATTR.

If you want some performance boost, think about ways you might delete about
90% of those instructions. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From emile at fenx.com  Thu Aug 23 19:42:41 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:42:41 -0700
Subject: I dont get this!
References: <3B85805D.BAC86944@telia.com>
Message-ID: <9m44mv$ach9$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Try testing the type of the functions return values:

>>> value = '103'
>>> low = '25'
>>> print value, low
103 25
>>> print value < low
1

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com

---------
"Peter Sundling" <peter.sundling at telia.com> wrote in message
news:3B85805D.BAC86944 at telia.com...
> Help! :)
> I have been programming in python for some time now, and today i
> found a strange bug in my code i cant get rid of...
>
> Here is a code snippet where something is wrong somewhere:
>
>
> def check_hilo(i):
> if value[i] < low[i]:
> return 1
>
> if value[i] > high[i]:
> return 2
>
> return 0
>
>
> ...Simple, huh? I have never had any trouble with something like this
> before.
> The thing is that this procedure always returns 1.
> I have tried to rewrite this little source code a couple of times,
> in many different ways, and it still returns 1!
>
> If i compare value to high before i compare it to low, it still returns
> 1.
>
> As an example: value[i] was 103, low[i] was 25 and high[i] was 35.
> As far as i know, 103 is greater than 25. But python seemes to disagree
> on that...
> ( if i start the python alone and writes
> print 103 < 25
> it responds 0, But what the hell is wrong now??)
>
>
> /Peter
> (The dumbest programmer on the face of the earth)



From woodm at equire.com  Wed Aug 22 16:13:36 2001
From: woodm at equire.com (Matthew D. Wood)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:13:36 -0600
Subject: UserDict
Message-ID: <3B841270.1040805@equire.com>

Are you allowed to overwrite the __init__ method of a class that 
inherits from UserDict.UserDict ?




From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug  6 14:56:36 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:56:36 GMT
Subject: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com> <ScG97.56412$EP6.12961869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com> <3B673CF9.35909E36@tundraware.com> <3B69E2C8.76E94701@home.net> <3B69E5B9.618E3AE6@tundraware.com> <3B6B00D0.DDC21E2@home.net> <9kmf5n017da@enews4.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3b6ee6dc.143803698@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:00:49 +0200, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>Absolutely.  However, I do see BIG ethical questions with a law
>that allows somebody, anybody, to *patent* genes I may have
>in my body -- I don't really care about the economic implications
>of that, there HAS to be somewhere one draws a line.
>
IMO the result of reverse engineering God's prior art should not
qualify for patents. Nor should climbing a mountain give you
ownership of it, nor exclusive rights to the path that
any competent mountain climber would discover.

I think there is plenty of room for real inventions.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 16:02:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:02:57 +0200
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com> <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <8bbd9ac3.0108091812.6eb47cc3@posting.google.com> <997418262.593664@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108100815.77884faf@posting.google.com> <997465342.347061@yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <9l1er201dq4@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:997465342.347061 at yabetcha.sttl.drizzle.com...
    ...
> worth rehashing that all over again, but the performance benefit
> was only a beneficial potential side effect - some people actually
> have the demented view that static typing is an asset in itself.

I know people like that, except the stricture they idolize is
*discipline*.  They're generally infantry or marines guys (and/or
gals) -- I come from a family tradition of artillery (on my dad's
side), with superb respect for technical mastery and none for
obeying stupid orders, and cavalry (on my mother's side --
her dad's, actually), with core values centering on courage
and audacity (I'd call them suicidal inconscience), and, again,
very little admiration for restraint and quiet obedience (me?
I managed to avoid military service, but I did serve my time
as a Pascal-and-dialects-thereof coder...:-).


Alex





From dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de  Wed Aug 15 06:18:36 2001
From: dietmar at wohnheim.fh-wedel.de (Dietmar Lang)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:18:36 +0200
Subject: eof?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108141537500.592-100000@IL0015ACSULLIV3.ih.lucent.com> <9lc6ij024r5@enews3.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3B7A4C7C.CF1A3C3A@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>

Hi,

> There are several ways.  Best overall, today (Python 2.1):
> 
>     for line in fh.xreadlines():
>         process(line)

Is xreadlines something I missed or is it a misspelled readlines?
Because as far as I know readlines reads in the whole file into a list
containing the lines, which might not be so practical if the file is
waay big?

Kudos, Dietmar


From barry at zope.com  Thu Aug  2 22:16:04 2001
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:16:04 -0400
Subject: Mailman 2.0.6 on Mac OS X Server 10.0.4/Python 2.1
References: <5d26b9bd.0108021504.c0a8d21@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <15210.2404.944319.32211@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MM" == Matt MacInnis <macinnis at thecrimson.com> writes:

    MM> basically just BSD) and have successfully installed Mailman
    MM> 2.0.6.

It's probably better to ask on mailman-users at python.org.  But this is
a strange one.  What web server are you running?  It looks like your
web server perhaps doesn't set up sys.stdin the way cgi.py expects?

-Barry



From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Fri Aug 10 12:38:48 2001
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 16:38:48 GMT
Subject: choice between quotes thoughts
References: <mailman.997356675.4537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l12mo$m7c$1@news.mathworks.com>

I always use '.  Holding down shift is just far too much effort.


From tjreedy at home.com  Mon Aug 13 03:37:00 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:37:00 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <mailman.997669760.32263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wsLd7.98470$EP6.24876937@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Arthur Siegel" <ajs at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.997669760.32263.python-list at python.org...
> [stuff about VPython]

Before this current discussion, I had never heard of VPython.  I still
have no idea what it is or does.  For me, therefore, it is irrelevant
to the discussion of the division change, and it has nothing to with
my opinions and analyses of the division change or why I now think it
will be a good change if not counterbalanced by the code breakage.

Terry J. Reedy





From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 22 13:24:35 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:24:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Python Library Question
In-Reply-To: <3B80B181.1E8D44A4@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108221323060.12521-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Kurt Jansen wrote:

> I am new to Python, and am trying to implement a Web site using Python
>  [snip]
>

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

Or more specifically:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From vidog112 at YAHOO.COM  Tue Aug  7 16:16:47 2001
From: vidog112 at YAHOO.COM (Vineet)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:16:47 -0400
Subject: scope question
References: <3B70024F.1020606@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B704CAF.B6C8EA3E@YAHOO.COM>

The reason you get an error like that, is because 'count' can only be
read, not changed. In your first example, you are only referencing 'count'
and therefore, no exception.  However, in your second example, you are
attempting to write to a global variable from a local function, which is
not allowed.

I had a similar problem like that. I got around it by putting all my
functions and variables in a class. You can access all variables that are
in a class when you create an instance of the class.

Hope this helps.
vineet

Mark Robinson wrote:

> Can anyone explain the following behaviour to me
>
> if I type:
>
> count = 0
> def function():
>         print count
>
> function()
>
> that works fine, however, if I type this:
>
> count = 0
> def function():
>         count += 1
>         print count
>
> function()
>
> I get the following exception
>
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'count' referenced before assignment
>
> why does it find the global variable in the first case and not in the
> second?
>
> blobby



From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Sat Aug 25 11:50:28 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 15:50:28 GMT
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
References: <mailman.998679338.16044.python-list@python.org> <toee0udndm2ad9@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9m8hg4$o9c$1@dahlia.singnet.com.sg>

According to John Roth <johnroth at ameritech.net>:
> "Jesse F. W" <jessefw at loop.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.998679338.16044.python-list at python.org...
> > Should you simulate the parts of the app object that are needed?

> If your class needs a player object for it to make sense, then you need
> to supply such an object, properly updated. 

Not always. You might be able to fake it with "mock objects":

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-March/035546.html



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


From tbryan at python.net  Fri Aug  3 13:16:29 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:16:29 +0500
Subject: Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure
References: <jt1ymtngpk.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <9kflk7$h2d$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

William Annis wrote:

>         Recently I have found myself designing a database-driven
> system to keep track of our machines, what they do, where they sit,
> etc., and I keep thinking "William, you should write an
> *infrastructure* for all this system junk you do."  
[...snip...]
>         I'd rather not do this alone. So, if there are other Unix
> admins, or NT admins, for that matter, who want to see their favorite
> language used to develop something like this and are willing to do
> some actual work, please contact me.  If there's no interest, I'll
> just crawl back into my office and hush up. :)

I'm not a sys admin, and I'm rather overcommitted right now, but this 
idea certainly does not sound crazy.  If you're serious about doing 
some work on it and you plan to use an OSI-approved Open Source 
license, then you should consider setting up a project page at 
http://www.sourceforge.net/  Create a project web page and post your 
design.  Start a mailinglist for your developers.  Discuss the project 
and hack up a prototype that you can play with and refine.  Throw 
away the prototype and try again.  Repeat.

Post on comp.lang.python.announce whenever you have a new stable 
release.

Good luck,
---Tom



From joonas at olen.to  Sun Aug 19 14:15:56 2001
From: joonas at olen.to (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:15:56 +0300
Subject: Access pickles remotely?
References: <3B7C424F.8A1D981C@mitre.org>
Message-ID: <3B80025C.BC1B2667@olen.to>

Angel Asencio wrote:
> 
> Greetings:
> 
>   My project team raised the issue of having to download extremly big
> pickle files to run our application. (We develop on PC and Solaris)
> 
>   All of us are in an intranet.  It was suggested to access the same
> pickle
> file remotely since it will be only read from it.
> 
>   I mentioned CORBA and the faces reflected a disagree opinion. Then
> someone
> mentioned the URL library, and looks like people where more happy with
> this.
> 
>   I have not explored the URL library yet, but is there a preffered
> way to
> access pickle files remotely?

First set up a custom pickle server with BaseHTTPServer module that is
visible in intranet.
Then just download the pickles from the server with urllib.
For example with query http://myhost:pickleport/picklename


From jmarshal at mathworks.com  Thu Aug 23 16:01:42 2001
From: jmarshal at mathworks.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 20:01:42 GMT
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <7xwv3w78y2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Vpch7.65519$MC1.21346220@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com>
Message-ID: <9m3nf6$728$1@news.mathworks.com>

Frederic Giacometti <frederic.giacometti at arakne.com> wrote:

> "Paul Rubin" <phr-n2001 at nightsong.com> wrote in message
> news:7xwv3w78y2.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
>> Is there any particular reason Python uses reference counting garbage
>> collection (which leaks memory if there's circular structure) instead

> 1) Reference counting is efficient, simple and robust

Other GC schemes tend to be more efficient (in an amortized sense),
particularly copying collection for languages like Python.


From mday at apple.com  Mon Aug 20 13:58:37 2001
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:58:37 -0700
Subject: Lists into lists
References: <mailman.998319210.23592.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <200820011058375200%mday@apple.com>

In article <mailman.998319210.23592.python-list at python.org>, Ignacio
Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote:

> Inserting y into x just inserts a reference to y into x. You need to insert
> y[:] into x, which then makes a copy of y.

As another poster mentioned, you could use list(y) instead of y[:].

Can anyone offer guidance about which one to choose?  Are there subtle
differences in behavior?  Is one better than the other when y is a
user-defined class (such as a UserList derivative) vs. a built-in type?

I find the slicing notation a little confusing since slices of xrange()
or Numeric.array don't make copies (at least not by default).  Plus, I
could see utility in slicing a generator such that the slice doesn't
make copies either (just yielding the selected items, skipping over the
rest).

By the way, I was slightly surprised that lists don't have a copy()
method like dictionaries.  y.copy() would be seem a bit more obvious.

-Mark


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Thu Aug 23 09:32:11 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:32:11 -0500
Subject: Python use with browsers?
References: <3B82FB32.258CB937@theworld.com> <sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <to7dejr8jk4e87@corp.supernews.com> <FSWg7.1085$54.66815@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <toa1hj4b7bbof9@corp.supernews.com>

Steve
Sorry, my mistake!  I did not realize that.
Maan

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:FSWg7.1085$54.66815 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> Indeed. But the question asked if Python could be used "as Java is used in
> the browser". Which I took to mean client-side, not server-side like ASP.
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --
> http://www.holdenweb.com/
>
>
> "Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
> news:to7dejr8jk4e87 at corp.supernews.com...
> > Steve
> > The win32all implementation installs the Python ActiveX scripting
engine.
> > This means that it can be used in ASP pages without the need for any
> client
> > to have Python installed.  In cases like that, Python should be
installed
> on
> > the server only where Python is run.
> > Maan
> >
> > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> > news:sADg7.100020$rV6.4877746 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > > "David Lees" <deblnonospammy at theworld.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3B82FB32.258CB937 at theworld.com...
> > > > Is there a way to run Python the way Java is run from a browser?  I
> > > > assume Jython lets you do this?  But I am wondering if there is some
> > > > sort of Python VM plug-in that that allows a browser to execute
> Python?
> > > >
> > > > I have written some Python code that is being ported to Java,
because
> of
> > > > the Java/Browser tie in and am wondering about ways the code could
be
> > > > used directly.
> > > >
> > > The ActivePython implementation, or standard Windows Python with the
> > > win32all extensions, allow you to use Python as an ActiveScripting
> > language.
> > > However, you will need to be able to guarantee that all your clients
> have
> > > Python installed: is this something under your control?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >  Steve
> > > --
> > > http://www.holdenweb.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




From jessw at loop.com  Mon Aug 27 00:26:34 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:26:34 -0700
Subject: Art of Unit Testing: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <slrn9ofsl7.63j.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net>
Message-ID: <3B89698A.10387.14674253@localhost>

	Thank you very much, Billy.  This is very interesting and useful.  
After this discussion, I may actually be able to _use_ the wonderful 
ideas I have been reading about on various XP websites. :-)
William Tanksley wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:59:41 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote:
> >William Tanksley wrote:
> >> On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:07 -0700, Jesse F. W wrote: 
> >> >if self.app.cnt_player.battle.kind=='stop': how would this be
> >> >tested?
> 
> >> It wouldn't -- it would be deleted and abhorred.  That's a
> >> violation of encapsulation and of the law of Demeter (google that
> >> if you don't know what it means).
<snip definition of Law of Demeter>
> >> The problem is that each object should have an interface to do
> >> everything it needs to do.  You shouldn't have to reach inside any
> >> object to inspect how it's doing its job.  The above code should
> >> look like 'if self.app.anyPlayersInStoppedBattles():' (I'm assuming
> >> that's an appropriate name).
Ok.  This still seems somewhat excessive to me, but I'll let it go for 
now.
<another snip> 
> The fact that I couldn't tell what that code did was a good clue that
> it was written wrong.  You could have changed the names of the objects
> to make the test make more sense -- for example,
> 
> if self.theGame.current_player.battle.kind=='stop':
> 
> But even this doesn't say to me "check whether the current player in
> the game is stopped."  It actually says, "check whether the game's
> current player's battle is of the stopped kind."
Now, although your point that if you could not understand what the 
code did, it was probably written wrong has value, and especially if I 
have to try twice before I can explain it correctly, I am going to try 
and explain it again. :-)
	The game I am making is a card game representing a auto 
race.  The battle part of the above line refers to the top card in a pile 
of cards called the battle pile(hence the name).  All cards have a 
attribute called kind which represents(and I know this is confusing, 
and should be refactored) the general type of the card. In your 
terms, the method should be called 
"CurrentPlayerHasAStopTypeCardOnTopOfTheirBattlePile".  (Ooh, 
that looks sort of like I am being sarcastic.  Since this is email, I will 
specifically say, I do not mean to be.)
> >I don't see how the method could work if there was no 
> >current player object.
> 
> The existance of a 'currentPlayer' wouldn't matter to this object if
> theGame had a method to answer this important question.  In order for
> me to write this code, though, I have to know what it means to theGame
> when the current player is stopped.
I don't think it would mean anything to the game if the current player 
was stopped.  The current player could play different cards, but I 
don't think the game would care.  By the way, I use the self.app 
object mainly as a central storehouse of links to the various subparts 
of the total program.  The app object does not really know or do 
much.
> I can rewite some code right now, though:
> 
> class Player:
>   def isStopped():
>     return self.battle.kind == 'stop'
>
> Now we can reasonably talk about a player being stopped -- players can
> tell you whether or not they're stopped.
I was going to write here, "I really don't understand what this 
changes", but just as I was writing it, I understood.  It adds a level of 
abstraction, allowing the name battle to be changed, and even the 
name kind or its value, could be set to something else. 
> Of course, you'll recognise that I'm still violating the law of
> Demeter. The reason I'm doing that is that I don't know why each
> player needs a "battle".  Are you implying that there's a battle going
> on inside every player?  Perhaps your battles should contain players,
> rather than your players containing battles.  At any rate, what does
> it mean to ask a player's battle whether it is of the stopped kind? 
> Why does having a stopped battle also stop the player?
> 
> >Also, please say more about your last sentence, about testing only
> >the method, not the implementation.
Thank you for your answer to this question, by the way.
> An excellent question.  I'll answer in the form of a list of rules,
> with the first rule being by far the most important (in fact, all the
> others follow from it).
> 
> Wait.  First let me remove a possible unclarity: when I say "method"
> above I'm talking about the procedures which form an object.
> 
> 1.  Write your test before you've decided how to code the guts of your
> object.
Ok.
> 2.  When you're testing an object, test ONLY properties of
> that object, never properties of contained objects.
Ok; that's the law of Demeter.
> 3.  Test ALL of
> the properties of the object which will be used by any other object. 
> If a property hasn't been tested, don't ever use it; if you're about
> to use a property in a manner which hasn't been tested, write a test
> for that property and add that test to the object's unit tests.
Ok; but how to you "test the properties" without testing the 
implemented?
> Does this make sense?
> 
> If you follow these rules, your tests will not only be tests; they
> will also be documentation.  Furthermore, they will document how to
> use the object correctly, not how the object works internally.  When
> you test only the methods and properties an object exposes, you don't
> have to worry about testing the implementation -- and that means that
> you can change the implementation if you feel like it.  (The last
> sentance uses the words "method" and "implementation" in order to make
> it clear that I'm still talking about testing the methods, not the
> implementation.)
> 
> >		Jesse W 
> 
> -- 
> -William "Billy" Tanksley
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug 30 09:28:02 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:28:02 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: sgmllib & parsing problem
In-Reply-To: <9mld7t$2pqvl$1@ID-22517.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108301726261.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Harvest T. Moon wrote:

> i'm writing a client for the JammerIM system in Python (for BeOS, if anyone
> cares) and the system is based on XML-pieces.
> i have subclassed SGMLParser from sgmllib and everything is working fine,

-skip-

> how can i make SGMLParser to see that '/' or handle the whole tag with '/'
> at the end as a standalone-tag?

sgmllib is NOT into full SGML. It is for HTML (or so docs are telling)
You can try xml instead. or xmllib (also old package)

> regards,
> Harvest T. Moon
 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Aug  1 21:03:47 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 01:03:47 GMT
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification
References: <cp66cd12yp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.996351001.12473.python-list@python.org> <cpwv4syrzd.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <3B643C58.1C6C94F9@ActiveState.com> <mailman.996426594.9989.python-list@python.org> <20010729170054.141$Pa@newsreader.com> <cpr8uzz5uo.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9k6uoa$3sv$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9mh9ni.dne.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:50:38 +0100, Andrew Dalke <dalke at acm.org> wrote:
>What's wrong with 'klass'?  Other than that it looks either
>like a typo or like German.  Several of the standard libraries

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but my aesthetic reaction is that it's
really gross.  Every time my eye trips over one of those things I feel like I
do whenever I see a sign advertising "Hundred's of Items for Sale".

Worse is that some people who start down that path may eventually see nothing
wrong with calling a variable "fyle" (because "file" is already taken).  I've
seen it, and it's not pretty.

I'm sure my aversion is not totally rational.


From boudewijn at tryllian.com  Mon Aug  6 03:54:20 2001
From: boudewijn at tryllian.com (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:54:20 +0200
Subject: Using import in an exec'ed string
References: <9kiqt1$5v3$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <Xns90F44EA8AC6DDgmcmhypernetcom@199.171.54.154>
Message-ID: <3b6e4cfc$0$2980$e4fe514c@newszilla.xs4all.nl>

Gordon McMillan wrote:

> Nothing to do with import. This fails too:
> 
> a = """
> x = 3
> def f():
>   print x
> f()
> """
> exec(a, {}, {})
> 
> But, this works:
> d = {}
> exec(a, d, d)
> 

I've now determined that the breaking factor is the passing of 
a locals variable. I don't know why - wish I would, because I
want to explain the behaviour in a chapter on implementing macro
extensions for Python applications. (There is an ominous sentence on
messing with locals in the language reference, though).

The following script shows a bit of my experiments:

print "GLOBALS:\t", globals()
print "LOCALS:\t\t", locals()

s = """
import string
x=1

if globals().has_key("string"): print "OOOK"
if locals().has_key("string"): print "EEEK"

def f():
    print string.split("xxx xxx")

f()

"""    
print "=======: Kaal"
exec s
print "=======: Empty dicts"
exec (s, {})
print "=======: Empty dicts from vars"
g={}
l={}
exec (s, g)
print "=======: Messed up dicts"
g=globals()
g["x"] = 10
exec s in g
print "=======: Functions"
g=globals()
g["x"] = 10
exec (s, globals(), globals())


-- 
Boudewijn | http://www.valdyas.org


From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Thu Aug 16 09:26:23 2001
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:26:23 +0200
Subject: Future division patch available (PEP 238)
References: <mailman.995776716.24336.python-list@python.org><MPG.15c7942e7652fd7b989800@news-enteract> <BuvZCIASb+d7Ew$Q@gol.com><mailman.997716022.20626.python-list@python.org> <YTzPNDAvATe7EwXf@gol.com> <3b7a782f$0$250$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk> <R4Ae7.106367$EP6.27468550@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3b7bca91$0$97142$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at home.com> wrote:
>
> "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:
> > Here's an idea on how to avoid that: Replace each instance of / and
> /=
> > with a call to a function that emulates old division behaviour. This
> > could be completely automated.

> To automate this, you need a parser that can accurately recognize the
> blocks of text that correspond to E1 and E2.

Right. It only needs to be done once though, and since CPython,
JPython and PyChecker must already know how to parse Python, for the
right people this shouldn't be too hard.

Another option would be to add a new infix operator to the language
with the same precedence as /. Something with a long clunky name, like
"__oldstyle_divide__", whose only raison d'?tre is compatibility
hacks. Changing
    E1 / E2
to
    E1 __oldstyle_divide__ E2
doesn't require deep parsing.

- Anders




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Aug 29 00:20:40 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:20:40 -0400
Subject: Handling more than one request on a socket
References: <2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <42_i7.64738$54.3468620@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Jeff Grimmett" <grimmtoothtoo at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2df3d89d.0108281844.7736d5b9 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, pythonistas,
>
> I'm trying to come to grips with the issue of dealing with sockets,
> or, more precisely, a socket that can accept and process 'n' number of
> requests on a particular address.
>
> Right now I'm going the route of opening an inet streaming socket,
> binding it to the port, and listen()ing for requests. For example, for
> a telnet port:
>
>    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>    s.bind(('', 23))
>    s.listen(1)
>
> ... then ... ?  I've tried a number of approaches, but so far all I
> can get to work is a single connection at a time, and in most cases
> it's good for one recv().
>
> This is an issue I'm going to be looking at in a lot of cases, so I'd
> like to iron it out now if I can. Any suggestions on where to start?

Once your server port is bound and listening you need to make accept() calls
on it. The socket.accept() method returns a two-element tuple. The first
element is a socket you can use to communicate with the connecting client,
and the second is the client's address.

You should never make recv() calls on the server socket, that's not what
it's for. Regard an acceptoing socket, if you will, as a socket factory.
Once you have your client socket you can send and receive to your heart's
content, independent of the server socket, which will continue to listen.

Then, of course, you can make another accept() call on the server socket to
receive another connection. And so on. The argument to listen() tells the
transport layer how many queued requests it should allow before it starts
rejecting incoming connection requests. Apparently many OS's won't allow
more than five.

regards
 Steve
--
http://www.holdenweb.com/







From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 22 18:37:55 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:37:55 -0700
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
References: <mailman.998514392.7340.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B843442.27328839@ccvcorp.com>

cary miller wrote:

> > print os.path.dirname(os.__file__)
>
> is simplest if you only want to know about the os module.  To get the
> location of any module do this:

[... snip ...]

Well, the point of this discussion was to find the location of the standard
library.  As the os module is a part of the standard library, it stands to
reason that locating os will locate the standard lib directory....   ;)

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Fri Aug 24 17:28:18 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:28:18 +0100
Subject: Reference counting garbage collection
References: <mailman.998622877.14447.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9odhni.139.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Tim Peters wrote:

> still-waiting-for-bubblesort's-rehabilitation-ly y'rs  - tim

Knuth volume 3 describes an application where bubble sort
is *optimal*. It's a pretty eccentric one, though. If I
remember correctly, the model is that you have a loop of
tape[1] which can only be moved in one direction, and a
read/write head that can access two adjacent locations,
and maybe some other restrictions carefully engineered to
make bubble sort optimal. I don't know whether the work
Knuth references was done *only* in order to find a way
to declare bubble sort optimal, or whether it's something
someone was interested in for other reasons.


[1] Actually, Knuth describes it in terms of a disc, but
    the term "disc" might be too distracting these days.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
.sig under construc


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Aug 16 05:01:56 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:01:56 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: PLEAC project
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108161300150.28012-100000@phd.fep.ru>

Hello!

   http://lwn.net/2001/0816/devel.php3

   "The PLEAC project plans to reimplement all of the programs from the
Perl Cookbook in a variety of other languages. The Perl Cookbook is
published by O'Reilly and was written by Perl heavyweights Tom Christiansen
& Nathan Torkington.

"If successful, this project may become a primary resource for quick,
handy, and free solutions to most common programming problems using
higher-level programming languages. It could also be useful for comparison
on ease-of-use and power/efficiency of these languages."

PLEAC stands for "Programming Language Examples Alike Cookbook". The
current list of supported languages includes Perl, Merd, Ruby, Haskell,
Python, Masd, and Nasm. The Merd and Ruby implementations are both about
25% finished. Python, Haskell, and the assembly languages are trailing at
below 10% completion. The project maintainer is seeking help for the
implementation of solutions in ocaml, scheme, tcl, and C++/stl.

Despite the incomplete status, PLEAC already has many useful examples for
the various languages. As it fills out, PLEAC should become a very handy
resource for programmers who need to reinvent the wheel, a common task
indeed."

   http://pleac.sourceforge.net/

* python, 6.00% done

   Anyone willing to help/contribute?

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Fri Aug 31 08:54:54 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:54:54 -0400
Subject: Two Jython Questions
Message-ID: <E566B020833BD311B6610008C791A39705CA5366@il93exm04.css.mot.com>

ME stands for messy exception.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maan Hamze [mailto:mmhamze at pleiades.net]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:56 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Two Jython Questions


I figured it out and now jython is working in Windows ME.
Using JAVA.EXE that comes with Sun SDK ver 2, and including the path to the
RT.JAR in CLASSPATH led to this problem.  Removing it from the CLASSPATH
removed the problem.  In Windows NT, RT.JAR in CLASSPATH is OK.  I maybe
missing some other setting that led to this.  But I'll figure it out.
I needed to make this work, because I sold our team where I work the idea of
using Python for all their scripting needs and they already like it a lot.
Now I want to introduce them into Jython and I needed to figure out how to
make this thing work so as to make it easy on everyone.
Thanks,
Maan

"Maan Hamze" <mmhamze at pleiades.net> wrote in message
news:yoFj7.519219$lq1.106456033 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Thank you all for the replies.  But I am dumpfounded (or is dumbfounded?)
> Again it quit working and apparently it can not find the CLASSPATH.  The
> CLASSPATH is in the environment.  But I can see clearly that it just is
not
> picking the path.  And for some reason Jython likes to use one particular
> JAVA.exe that came with the Java runtime for quicktime.
> This is simply confusing.  I'll just sleep on it and deal with it again
this
> weekend.  Things have a way of working themselves out.  I can see the
power
> of Jython.  Only if this mess of  classpaths is worked out.  But also
maybe
> Windows ME itself is the mess!
> Maan
>
> "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.999218077.28034.python-list at python.org...
> > > From: Maan M. Hamze [mailto:mmhamze at pleiades.net]
> > > Mats
> > > I figured out how to run things and how to set the path of classes.
> > > However, I am still running into one problem.  I am compiling
> > > a test.py file
> > > into test.class using jythonc and keep getting this error on
> > > running the
> > > class file:
> > > Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Test
> > > By the way, I discovered that it creates test.java too.
> >
> > Sounds to me like you have the code set up like this ...
> >
> > # test.py
> >
> > class Test
> >
> >     # some stuff
> >
> > Now, Java (and Python for the most part) is case-sensistive on the
> > filesystem level. So, when you compile 'test.py' you end up with
> > 'test.class'.
> >
> > Then in your Java code you try to use the class 'Test'. It then searches
> for
> > a file called 'Test.class' - and doesn't find it!
> >
> > Try renaming your file to 'Test.py' (note case) and try again.
> >
> > Tim Delaney
> >
>
>





From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Aug 16 01:06:07 2001
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 05:06:07 -0000
Subject: Zombies from forked thread process. Why?
References: None <mailman.997891588.7217.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <997938367.367276@yabetcha.drizzle.com>

Quoth Dave Cinege <dcinege at psychosis.com>:
| Linux 2.4, Debian 2.2/Redhat 7.1 Python 2.1.1 compiled from source.
|
| I have a daemon process that watches a directory for files. When
| some appear it decides what to do with them and then spawns a 
| processor to handle them. To be speedy it detaches (forks) a processor
| for each 'section'. Eveything run perfect, except that when the processor 
| process returns it leaves a zombie in the process tree:
| IE
| root  29065  0.0  0.0  0  0 ?   Z  11:40 0:00 [mss_snort-updat <defunct>]

That zombie is there waiting for you to wait for it.  That is, it
will disappear once you have received its exit status with wait()
or waitpid().

| This is probably all moot as the processors are python based and in
| the future I'll just create a thread for each one that is spawned
| instead of a seperate process. However I'd like to understand why
| this is going on.

A separate process fork may still be a better deal than a thread.
That's up to you, just wanted to point out that processes aren't
good only for exec().  If you fork the interpreter, remember to
exit and never return to the caller (including through an exception.)

	Donn


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Aug 17 08:25:42 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:25:42 +0100
Subject: where is doctest module
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D78BFCF@intrepid>

> From:	robin and jim [SMTP:robinjim at earthlink.net]
> How do I get a copy of the doctest module?  I was not able to locate it
> starting from www.python.org.
 
doctest is part of the standard library, as at version 2.1.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 12:48:47 2001
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:48:47 -0700
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
References: <mailman.998715878.20084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0108270848.3b9d159e@posting.google.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in message t.
 
> Also, I'm curious as to why you say that you can't use a database server. You
> mention "loading a complete database into memory". 
.
>Please> explain what you mean.

There's a few reasons why I was hoping to avoid a database server. I'm
learning Webware and wanted to eliminate learing the database server
on top of that.  I don't believe the ISP I would like to deploy it to
provides access to a database, at least not without extra $$$, which
means more hassle for me as I'd have to get approval for the extra
money. It would have to come eventually, but for not I"d like to
procastinate a bit on the database side and design the app!

I mentioned 'loading into memory' as I because while gadfly seems like
a perfect solution, when I lasted looked at it it loaded the whole
database into memory.  Althought that might not be too bad  for
development, then switch to a full-fledged database later. (Just
checking with Chordate, Gadfly still loads the entire database, but it
shouldn't be a problem until you approach tens of thousands of rows).

Anway, it seems like the best bet is look into the Webware-friendly
ISPs.


Oh, and a Mr. Jung sent me this email containing another option:

"You should consider the standalone version of the ZODB.
It's perfect and simple for object persistence with Python.
Andreas"


Thanks everyone.


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 27 06:44:20 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:44:20 +0100
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
References: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <9md4d401l6k@enews1.newsguy.com> <WWVECJAoEii7Ewnx@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HWOAyXAESii7EwlO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <WWVECJAoEii7Ewnx at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
writes
....
>>I think the ISO standard for the C language mandates the
>>existence (includability, actually) of wchar.h, and Python
>>now requires a standard-compliant C compiler, so it doesn't
>>seem like a buglet to me that the installation isn't
>>checking for wchar.h's existence.  If your C compiler for
>>FreeBSD doesn't have a wchar.h in a standard include
>>directory, and you can upgrade to one that does, this
>>might indeed help.
>>
>>
>>Alex
>
>So is gcc now defunct?
>
>I looked in vain for wchar on my colocated platform and don't find it.
>Python-2.1.1 manages to build fine and on that machine I don't get the
>problem building the extension.
>
>The comments in unicodeobject.h seem to imply a missing wchar.h might
>not be fatal.
>
>I'm guessing this might be some difference in the way the two
>pythons/distutils were configured.


Further research says that wchar.h was added to ISO C90 with amendment 1.

Also it seems that 
http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/archive/2001/freebsd-i18n/20010520.freebsd-i18n.html
mentions wchar.h a lot beginning 2001/may so perhaps Python-2.1.1 package has the requirement
for wchar.h built in because freeBSD recently added wchar.h.

Looking in the two config.h fiels, I see one with #define HAVE_WCHAR_H 1 and one without.
-- 
Robin Becker


From mmhamze at pleiades.net  Fri Aug 31 10:15:43 2001
From: mmhamze at pleiades.net (Maan M. Hamze)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:15:43 -0500
Subject: How to make IIS support python?
References: <9mmvbl$kel$1@mail.cn99.com> <9mni8b$1gjb$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <tov743ogpl4905@corp.supernews.com>

Formalin
I forgot to give you the web site for CGI and windows:
http://www.python.org/topics/web/windows.html
It has info on CGI, Python, Windows and what Gillou mentioned (Python
scripting engine for ASP).
Please note that if the extension .cgi, as mentioned in configuring IIS or
PWS for Python, is already taken by another program, you can use another
extension (I use .cgp) and map it to Python.
Configuring this mapping from the Registry is enough for PWS.  However, the
page fails to mention another step for configuring Python with IIS - the
same extension you use in the registry should also be used in mapping
extensions through IIS manager panel itself.
Maan

"Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:9mni8b$1gjb$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> In addition you can install Mark Hammon's win32all extension that register
> python as scripting engine for ASP.
> Exemple of ASP/Python are provided.
> Get it somewhere (don't remember exactly where) in www.activestate.com
> "Formalin" <formalin14 at email.com.cn> a ?crit dans le message news:
> 9mmvbl$kel$1 at mail.cn99.com...
> > How to Config?
> >
> >
>
>




From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Aug 16 05:38:41 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:38:41 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: PEP 252: __slots__ inappropriate
In-Reply-To: <200108160716.JAA04540@pandora.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108161316200.2198-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Martin von Loewis wrote:

>In the current implementation of PEP 252, to declare an class with
>slots, you assign to the __slots__ variable inside the class
>definition:
>
>class Foo(object):
>  __slots__ = ['bar','baz']
>
>This declares that every instance of Foo will have two instance
>attributes, namely bar and baz.
>
>I find that this way of defining class properties is inconsistent with
>the rest of the language, in particular with other "magic" class
>attributes:

I agree with you. These keywords (__dunamic__, __slots__) are no more
than hidden memory class/type attributes, like register and struct
in C, that is, they are along with global NEW kinds of definitions.

I think, it needs to be dealt with or Python will end using lots of
definitions, added here and there without any consistency (for now, at
least - 'cause Guido concentrates on underlying mechanisms).

IF future of Python involves adding more declarations, it's time for
adding nice syntax to those and not hide them with __things__.


>  slot bar
>  slot baz = 42

It is consistent with global.

>This is similar in declaration to a global directive, except that that
>it would be a definition, not a declaration: It would create a member
>object.
>
>B. An existing keyword
>
>class Foo:
>  def bar
>  def baz = 42

no. This needs more words (cause slot is not the last declaration,
it seems):

def bar = 42, foo = 3 as __slots__

(or something like that)

>C. A new builtin
>
>class Foo:
>  bar = slot()
>  baz = slot(42)

No, this is not good, because slot is ooptimization hack involving
low-levels of Python implementation. (I am not at all happy it appears in
Python.)

>In this option, the slot object would not know what its name is. So
>this would require some magic, either at class definition time, or at
>slot access time.

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Thursday, August 16, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ ".ASM programmers drive stick shifts." _/




From carlf at panix.com  Thu Aug  2 21:41:48 2001
From: carlf at panix.com (Carl Fink)
Date: 3 Aug 2001 01:41:48 GMT
Subject: Deposing Dictators
References: <008A6F18.N22121@rsmi.com> <mailman.996694328.7115.python-list@python.org> <T9N1IXAoGJa7EwVF@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9kbip102o37@enews1.newsguy.com> <mailman.996784446.25354.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn9mk0as.kvp.carlf@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.996784446.25354.python-list at python.org>, Frank
"Finger Fart" Lomax wrote:
 
>Considering that I write 10k-50k lines of Python a day . . . 

Fifty thousand lines?  Okay, assume each line has two words, that's
100,000 words.  Now assume you type at 100 words per minute, and
never stop to think.  That's *over 16 hours* of typing.  Per day.

Are you counting blank lines here?  Maybe counting code reuse?  Do
you never sleep?
-- 
Carl Fink                                     carlf at dm.net
I-Con's Science and Technology Programming
<http://www.iconsf.org>


From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 13:41:22 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:41:22 -0500
Subject: Pysol (python solitaire game)
In-Reply-To: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper>
References: <A%9h7.221019$ef.6152235@Flipper>
Message-ID: <15237.16450.420333.57073@beluga.mojam.com>

    rb> I dont get what's going wrong here and my girlfriend realy wants to
    rb> play solitaire on linux (and isn't to impressed with kpatience)

Sounds like you have other problems if your girlfriend wants to play
solitaire. ;-)

Assuming there are .py files in the rpm you installed, you should be able to
simply delete the .pyc files.  Python should rebuild them the next time the
relevant modules are imported.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 11:09:55 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:09:55 +0200
Subject: Calling C++ from Python
References: <3B7D2A85.A11E46CB@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <9ljgdo123oi@enews2.newsguy.com>

"Rbtns" <rbtns082484 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B7D2A85.A11E46CB at hotmail.com...
> How would I call a C++ object from Python?
>
> I have a file of something like:
>
> #include <iostream.h>
> int main()
> {
>   cout <<"I need this to work\n";
>   return 0;
> }
>
> and I want to display my C++ program output from within a python
> program. Do I create an object of the C++ program, and therefore would
> it need to be in a class?  How do I do this if I don't want the program
> in a class?  How do I import the C++ file?

If you have a complete and stand-alone external program, say foo.exe
on Windows or just foo on Unix, it doesn't matter any more whether it
was originally written in C++ or whatever: you can execute the external
program from Python and get its output.

Say your code above is in executable file C:\pleep\koop.exe.  Your
Python code could just run:
    import os
    koopout = os.popen('c:/pleep/koop.exe').read()
and now variable koopout would refer to a string whose
value is "I need this to work\n".  Note the forward slashes --
you can use backward ones in Python, but it's somewhat
troublesome and forward ones work just fine.

This is simple and very general.  The only problem is, it can be
slow, particularly on Windows where starting another process is
a major issue (not so much of a problem in Linux and other Unix
like operating systems, which start processes more rapidly).

The speed issue only matters if you need to run your external
program often AND each run is pretty lightweight -- the
overhead may be on the order of some tens of milliseconds
(depending on your machine), so if you're only running the
external program a few times OR if each time you run it it
typically has to work for a hundred milliseconds or more, the
overhead of starting the process doesn't really matter.

If it DOES matter in your case, that's where you should start
looking at alternatives, such as writing a Python extension
(you'll need to restructure your C++ so it's not any more a
stand-alone program, of course) or keeping the C++ program
up and having Python interact with it through any of several
possible Inter-Process Communication (IPC) approaches,
including sockets, shared-memory, Corba, COM, XML-RPC,
and others yet.  The latter possibilities also typically require
a lot of restructuring for a C++ program that was originally
designed to stand on its own as a main-program, though.


Alex





From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Mon Aug 13 19:03:31 2001
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:03:31 -0700
Subject: encapsulation?
References: <3B704ED1.EFA6AEA8@demog.berkeley.edu> <3B75B009.1A42DA3E@ndh.net>
Message-ID: <03c601c1244f$82d814a0$5514b43f@kens>

From: "Stefan Schwarzer" <s.schwarzer at ndh.net>
> Hello Lloyd
>
> Lloyd Goldwasser schrieb:
> > As a recent convert to Python (I have C, Objective-C, and Scheme, among
> > others, in my past), I'm curious about its lack of encapsulation.  'Way
> > back when I was using Objective-C -- and many other OO languages seem to
> > have a similar perspective -- there was a lot of emphasis on the ability
> > to keep the contents of objects independent of outside influence except
> > via well-delineated mechanisms.  Security and reliability were cited as
> > major benefits of this approach: every object knew exactly what the
> > outside world was going to see and exactly how the outside world might
> > act to change its state. [...]
>
> There was a nice posting/thread on this some time ago:
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ken+seehof+encapsulation&hl=en&group=comp.
lang.python.*&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=39491494.671DC3D9%40sightreader.com
>
> Stefan

Actually it is only a technicality that python lacks encapsulation anyway.
The "__" syntax allows you to hide members.  But since you can get around
it, people say python doesn't have encapsulation.  When I write reusable
classes, I make use of "__" where appropriate.  In practice python has
enough
encapsulation.

>>> class X:
...  def __init__(self):
...   self.__hidden = 5
...  def get_hidden(self):
...   return self.__hidden
...  def set_hidden(self, h):
...   self.__hidden = h
...
>>> class Y(X):
...  def crash(self):
...   print self.__hidden
...
>>> y = Y()
>>> y.set_hidden(4)
>>> y.get_hidden()
4
>>> y.crash()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 3, in crash
AttributeError: Y instance has no attribute '_Y__hidden'
>>> y._X__hidden
4





From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug 25 09:27:02 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:27:02 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] sys.modify_argv()
In-Reply-To: <7xzo8ok752.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.998706141.30883.python-list@python.org>
        <toef3be6ln5ob8@news.supernews.com>
        <7xzo8ok752.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <15239.42918.926020.201@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    Paul> "John Roth":
    >> Why do you want to do this?

    Paul> The idea is to run a command with a password on the command line,
    Paul> and not have the password stay visible to "ps" through the whole
    Paul> time the process is running.

I trust everyone recognizes the race condition here.  Passwords shouldn't be
on command lines if they are sensitive.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From stephen_purcell at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 10 12:26:37 2001
From: stephen_purcell at yahoo.com (Steve Purcell)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:26:37 +0200
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyUnit 1.4.1 released
Message-ID: <20010810182637.A8032@freedom.puma-ag.com>

Version 1.4.1 of the PyUnit testing framework has just been released.

This is the inevitable minor bugfix release relative to Monday's 1.4
release.

Summary of changes since version 1.4:

 - fixed an incorrect code example in cookbook document
 - fixed bug when running 'unittest.py' from the command line in 
   order to execute tests in other modules (thanks to Gary Todd) *
 - corrected version number in distutils 'setup.py' (spotted by
   Jerome Marant)

The release is available from the PyUnit homepage at

  http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/

Very best wishes to all,

-Steve

* This bug is also fixed in the Python CVS tree.

-- 
Steve Purcell, Pythangelist
Get testing at http://pyunit.sourceforge.net/
Fingerprint: EB79 2AB1 D494 16F9 8C3B  DAC6 5341 30CE BCCA EBEA



From tom-list at home.com  Fri Aug 17 13:16:38 2001
From: tom-list at home.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:16:38 -0400
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
Message-ID: <3b7d5148_1@Usenet.com>

PySpy does run-time visualization and analysis of Python software.

See http://www.malcolmson.com/pyspy for more.

Warning in advance - currently this only runs on Windows.

I'll watch this thread for comments and feedback (thanks in advance).

Tom.





 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
    ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------        
                http://www.usenet.com


From owen at astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid  Tue Aug  7 19:26:29 2001
From: owen at astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:26:29 -0600
Subject: data entry validation with Tkinter
References: <mailman.997178713.4482.python-list@python.org> <3B6FDC24.72A9DC7@westerngeco.com> <mailman.997189391.19119.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9kptfb$29hk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.997189391.19119.python-list at python.org>, Ken Guest 
<kwg at renre-europe.com> wrote:

>On 07 Aug 2001 13:16:36 +0100, Martin Franklin wrote:
>> Ken,
>> 
>> Take a look at the Pmw (Python Mega Widgets)
>> they've got an EntryField with validation plus some
>> built in validators (including dates, numbers, etc)
>> I use it for validating filenames.
>
>hi Martin,
>thanks for that, but I'm  fairly much committed to using tkinter.
>Can they both (tkinter and pmw) coexist within the same application?
>That might make things more likely to be reconsidered
>(as we're migrating a tcl+tk app over to python and really don't
>want to change too much of it too quickly).

Pmw is basically a wrapper for Tkinter, so they work together very well.

I found the Pmw widgets did not do what I wanted, so I rolled my own 
using Tk variables to fire a checking function whenever the user types a 
character in the entry widget. A copy of one example is appended. I also 
have integer and sexagesimal (e.g. dd:mm:ss.s) entry widgets (which 
subclass FloatEntry), in case those are of interest.

Notes:
- var.trace_variable is the heart of the checker. var is a Tk variable 
associated with the entry widget. trace_variable sets a callback 
function that is called whenever the variable is changed.
- ROStringUtil.strToFloat is similar to Float but is more liberal in 
what it accepts, for instance "" is 0.0 and None is NaN and is displayed 
as blank. Full source available on request.

Any fixes or suggestions for improvement would be most welcome.

Sorry for the anti-spam return address.

-- Russell

class FloatEntry (Entry):
    """A widget for entering floating point numbers with validity and 
range checking.
    
    Warning: cannot handle exponential notation, yet; as soon as you 
type an e
    the string can no longer be parsed as a float. This could certainly 
be fixed
    but it might be best to make a separate widget for the purpose.
    """
    
    def __init__ (self, master, minValue, maxValue, defValue=None, 
var=None, **kargs):
        """Create a FloatEntry widget.

        Inputs:
            master      master Tk widget -- typically a frame or window
            minValue    minimum acceptable value; a number is required
            maxValue    maximum acceptable value; a number is required
            defValue    default value; if supplied then it must be a 
valid number
            var         a StringVar to use as the widget's Tk variable
            **kargs keyword arguments to configure the widget;
                the default width is 8
                text and textvariable are silently ignored (use var 
instead of textvariable)
        """
        if var:
            self.var = var
        else:
            self.var = StringVar()
        self.minValue = minValue
        self.maxValue = maxValue
        self.defValue = defValue
        if not kargs:
            kargs = {}
        kargs.setdefault("width", 8)
        kargs.setdefault("justify", RIGHT)
        if kargs.has_key("text"):
            del(kargs["text"])
        kargs["textvariable"] = self.var  # overrides user attempt to set
        
        Entry.__init__(self, master, **kargs)
        
        self.oldVal = self.var.get()
        self.var.trace_variable("w", self._checkVar)
        
        # set default -- do after binding _checkVar, so default is 
checked
        self.restoreDefault()

        self.bind("<FocusOut>", self._focusOut)

    def clear(self):
        self.var.set("")
    
    def getDefault(self):
        return self.defValue

    def getFloat(self):
        """Return the floating point value of the field"""
        return ROStringUtil.strToFloat(self.var.get())
    
    def getString(self):
        return self.var.get()
    
    def getVar(self):
        return self.var
    
    def restoreDefault(self):
        if self.defValue:
            # set default value and check it
            self.setFloat(self.defValue)
        else:
            # clear the field
            self.var.set("")

    def set(self, stringValue):
        """Set the field from a string; reject bad data.

        error conditions:
            raises ValueError if the string cannot be parsed
        """
        self.var.set(stringValue)

    def setFloat(self, floatValue):
        """Set the field based on a floating point value"""
        self.var.set(floatValue)
    
    def setRange(self, minValue, maxValue):
        self.minValue = minValue
        self.maxValue = maxValue

    def _checkVar(self, *args, **kargs):
        try:
            newVal = self.var.get()
            # blank is always acceptable
            if not newVal:
                return
            # check format (by convering to float) and that the new 
value is in range
            floatVal = self.getFloat()
            if floatVal < self.minValue or floatVal > self.maxValue:
                raise ValueError, "value %s out of range [%g,%g]" % \
                    (newVal, self.minValue, self.maxValue)
            self.oldVal = newVal
        except StandardError, e:
            print e
            self.var.set(self.oldVal)
            self.bell()

    def _focusOut(self, evt=None):
        """If blank, insert default value"""
        currVal = self.var.get()
        if not currVal:
            self.restoreDefault()


From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 17 14:30:28 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:30:28 -0700
Subject: A survey of Python IDEs
In-Reply-To: <270c68fe.0108162046.15ee55ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1274a$b13e2e30$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

Alan wrote:
> All of these IDEs have a debugger. None support multi-threaded
> debugging :-(, although the VisualPython documentation threatens to.

VisualPython does not support debugging multi-threaded Python scripts.
If some part of our documentation is misleading, could you point it
out?

--
Brian Quinlan
Python and XSLT Developer
BrianQ at ActiveState.com

ASPN - ActiveState Programmer Network
Essential programming tools and information
http://aspn.ActiveState.com/ASPN





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 13 17:26:07 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:26:07 +0200
Subject: Threads problem
References: <mailman.997728921.22297.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9l9gn312ufh@enews4.newsguy.com>

"Tatiana Evers" <tatiana at exatas.unisinos.br> wrote in message
news:mailman.997728921.22297.python-list at python.org...
"""
I am working with Python API/C.

I have a module in C that call a Glut function. Glut function call Glut
MainLoop and this block my interactive python program.

So, I though in create a new thread to solve this, but I didn't have sucess.
Any idea ?
"""
In the C=code run by your new thread, did you Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS /
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS ...?  Otherwise, Python's global interpreter
lock nullifies your attempts at multithreading.


Alex






From Alexey.Goldin at jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Aug 31 14:41:35 2001
From: Alexey.Goldin at jpl.nasa.gov (Alexey Goldin)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:41:35 -0700
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com> <m3zo8g869r.fsf@allegro.caltech.edu> <9mol2c$3bdn8$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m3ofowhy1s.fsf@allegro.caltech.edu>

"Thomas Heller" <thomas.heller at ion-tof.com> writes:

> > The question is, what I am doing wrong here (or is it allowed at all)?
> >
> > ############ simple test code ##################
> > from PyInline import C
> >
> > x = C.Builder(code="""
> > PyObject* test_pyobj(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
> >   int t;
> >   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &t))
> >         return NULL;
> >   return Py_BuildValue("i", t*2) ;
> > }
> >
> > """)
> PyInline probably tries to wrap your function (which is not
> needed because it is already wrapped). You should examine
> the generated source-code.

Yes, you are right. But I explicitly tried if I can pass PyObject to handle 
something arrays, PyGtkObject, etc...

Well, it is pretty cool anyway and works amazinly well for 0.02 version.

> 
> From the docs (I haven't tried it) it seems you should write:
> x = C.Builder(code="""
> int times_two(int t) {
>     return t*2;
> }
> """)
> 
> Thomas


From nas at python.ca  Tue Aug 14 12:21:51 2001
From: nas at python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:21:51 -0700
Subject: Copy constructors
In-Reply-To: <cpsneve4wa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 02:46:48AM +0000
References: <mailman.997561650.27157.python-list@python.org> <cpzo969i4k.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l5j980l82@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpelqhf62b.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l6nd301403@enews2.newsguy.com> <cp3d6wf70d.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <712af333.0108131537.117f847@posting.google.com> <cpsneve4wa.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010814092151.A18316@glacier.fnational.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> All I want is to disable changes to *existing* classes by default.
> You can write your own metaclass that changes the default, or you can
> inherit from a dynamic base class -- thus, with very little effort,
> you can make all your classes dynamic, if you want to.

This sounds reasonable to me.  In my experience, while assigning to
__class__ is cool, there is usually a good alternative that achieves the
same effect.

  Neil



From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Wed Aug 29 10:20:34 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (Joal Heagney)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:20:34 +1000
Subject: privacy in Python
References: <39ce62b8.0108290610.42e6a3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B8CFA32.1289C2B4@student.gu.edu.au>

Ens wrote:
> 
> class cls:
>         def f(self, a, b):
>                 print a+b
>         __p=12
> 
> obj=cls()
> fun=obj.f
> print fun.im_self._cls__p
> 
> 12
> 
> I need that '__p' exactly be private.

If this is for security reasons, you may not be able to manage that in
python (I.e. my hint to you to wait for the responses of more
knowledgable pythoneers.), but have a look at the Bastion and rexec
modules.
-- 
      Joal Heagney is: _____           _____
   /\ _     __   __ _    |     | _  ___  |
  /__\|\  ||   ||__ |\  || |___|/_\|___] |
 /    \ \_||__ ||___| \_|! |   |   \   \ !


From ìîñò at mail.ru  Tue Aug 14 11:36:04 2001
From: ìîñò at mail.ru (=?windows-1251?Q?=DE=F0=E8=E4=E8=F7=E5=F1=EA=E8=E9_=F6=E5=ED=F2=F0_=CC=CE=D1=D2?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:36:04 +0400
Subject: =?windows-1251?Q?=CD=C0=CB=CE=C3=CE=C2=C0=DF_=CF=CE=CB=C8=D6=C8=DF_=CD=C5_=C4=D0=C5=CC=CB=C5=D2_!!!?=
Message-ID: <216772001821415364863@Yang>

	????????? ???????!
?? ????????? ?? ????? ???????????? ????? 2? ????
? ??? ???? ????????????? ????? ?????????
????? ??????? ?????????? ??????????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ?????????
??????????, ? ???????? ????????? ????????. ????????? ????????????
?????????? ????????????? ??????????? ????????.
 ????? ????!!!
													 ??????????? ????? ?????? ??????????????? ??? ???? ????????
? ????? ????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??
?????????? ???????????.
? ??? ???? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ???????.
1.?????????? ?????? ??????????? ? ???????????. ?? ?????????? ??????????
?????? ?????????, ????? ??????????? ? ??????????????? ????????? ?
??????????????? ??????, ? ????? ??????????? ?? ???? ???? ? ??????. ???
???????? ????? ? ????? ??????????? ????? ??????? ??? ????????? ??????
??????????? ?? ???? ??????-????????. ???????? ? ?????????????? ?????
???????? ????? ??? ?? ?????????.
???? ?? ????????? ???????, ?? ?? ??????? ? ?????? ?? ? ???? ????.
????????? ?????? - 400 ???.
???? ?????????? - 1,5-2 ???.

2.?????????? ????????. ?????????? ?????????????? ???????? ????? ????? ?
????????????, ?????????????????? ? ?. ?????, ??? ???? ????? ? ???????????
????? ????? ????????? ? ????? ????????????? ???????????? ????.?????????
?????? - 550 ???.
???? ?????????? - 5-7 ???.

3.??????????? ??????????. ?????????? ???????????? ???? ?????? ???
??????????? ??? ???????? ???? ? ???????????? ? ??????? ?????????????? ?
?????? ?????. ???? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ???????? ?? ??????
??????????????? ??????? ?, ??? ???????, ? ????????? ?????????
?????????.????????? ?????? - 1200 ???
???? ?????????? ?????? - 5-7 ???.

 ???? ?? ??????????? ?????? ? ??????, ?? ?? ?????
??????????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?????
????????????? ???? ???????? ??? ????????.
??????????? ????? "????"
??. ????????? ????, ?. 19, ???.1
 ???./???? (095) 105-75-85 (??????????????), 928-22-25 
 928-45-88, 928-12-45, 921-56-17
 E-mail: urmost at europe.com
www.likvid.ru

?? ??? ??????? ?? ???!
P.S. ???? ?? ?? ?????? ? ?????????? ???????? ???? ??????????,
?? ?????? ????????? ???? ????? python-list at python.org ?? ?????? ????????. 
??? ????? ??????? ?? ??????: 
http://www.likvid.ru/unsub2/index.php?email=python-list at python.org&SUBMIT=Un
Subscribe 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010814/596150c5/attachment.html>

From MHAMZE at austin.rr.com  Mon Aug 20 06:08:16 2001
From: MHAMZE at austin.rr.com (Maan Hamze)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:08:16 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1 CGI engine for PWS (Win98) => Error 500 (FIXED)
References: <9losla$2mns$1@norfair.nerim.net> <tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980@typhoon.austin.rr.com> <9lqlut$864$1@norfair.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <kk5g7.149597$g_3.23208569@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Gillou
In my original reply I mentioned to use the key .gcp.  I meant to say to use
the key .cgp - as to keep cgi scripts separate from other py modules.
I am glad it is working for you now.
Maan

"Gillou" <nospam at bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:9lqlut$864$1 at norfair.nerim.net...
> OK it's fixed...
>
> My cgi-bin virtual directory was located in the wwwroot (/) for documents.
> Now it's outside and it works...
> Thanks evrybody and sorry for the disturbance.
>
>
> --Gillou
>
> "Maan Hamze" <MHAMZE at austin.rr.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
> tA_f7.478045$lq1.92070980 at typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> > Gillou
> > change the key to something like .gcp
> > reboot, and see if it works.
> > Try it with a very simple script:
> > print 'Content-type: text/html'
> > print 'testing python cgi'
> >
> > for the value, try:
> > "C:\Python21\python.exe %s %s"
> > or
> > "C:\Python21\python.exe -u %s %s"
>
>
>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Aug  7 14:57:07 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 7 Aug 2001 18:57:07 GMT
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996688682.27362.python-list@python.org> <psou1zr4lbs.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108042147.5f0c4059@posting.google.com> <psoitg1md4l.fsf@jekyll.curl.com> <8bbd9ac3.0108070932.1c550d0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9kpdm3$hhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman):
| Christopher Barber <cbarber at curl.com> wrote in message news:<psoitg1md4l.fsf at jekyll.curl.com>...
|> anamax at earthlink.net (Andy Freeman) writes:
|>| Only if you've already exhausted algorithm/architecture/infrastructure
|>| improvements and "decrease run-time at any cost" really is the primary
|>| consideration.
|> 
|> It could be pretty expensive to move all of your code to a faster language if
|> you discover that Python is not good enough.  Sometimes you can write C
|> extensions for the slow parts, but in some cases you will have to start over.
|
| If experience is much of a guide, writing first in python and then
| in C tends to be cheaper/faster than writing in C from the beginning.
| Heck, writing in C then writing in C is often cheaper than writing in C.
|
| BTW - I would like to see an application that doesn't have significant
| hotspots.  I doubt that there are very many.

That's only one of the issues, though.  No doubt you can identify
a hotspot or two, depending on your criteria for significance.
You still have to ask whether it's worthwhile to write an extension -
maybe it would be not much harder to just write the whole thing in
a faster language.

I have tried the "write C after first writing in Python" route, when
an application was too big and slow.  It was a small application (but
one that is run often), and I'm not sure the Python version saved me
any great amount of time - C's storage is so different from Python's
that you can't just add curly braces, you have to rethink the architecture
at a fairly basic level to accommodate C.

There are lots of cases to the contrary, and in general partial or
full migration to C is an important option for various reasons.

But it isn't a good enough option to make Python's performance
unimportant.  When it's too slow, fixing that can waste a lot of
time, and that bites the programmer who decided to use Python,
and the organization that went along with that programmer, etc.
The moral is not that you should be using C instead, but that
Python should be faster.  When I want a more efficient solution,
I don't want to hear that I have to go to C, I want to know what
language has what I need, including efficient execution.

I think it's questionable how relevant Moore's law is here.  Interpreted
languages have been around pretty much all along, and all along have
presented the same kind of tradeoffs.  Twenty years ago our basement
was full of one or two computers, with computing power embarrassingly
surpassed by a common PC clone today.  Today, our basement is still
full of computers - hundreds of much faster computers - and they're
still expensive.  Moore's law is another symptom of denial, "your
program isn't really slow - just wait, it will be fast someday!"

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From mkhan12 at kornet.net  Thu Aug 30 22:09:53 2001
From: mkhan12 at kornet.net (???)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:09:53 +0900
Subject: How to change Windows Environment Variable
In-Reply-To: <007901c131a7$68045b60$33a91b42@socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <IJEELFALFHIMIADKKAPOKELLCCAA.mkhan12@kornet.net>

Thanks quick reply. But not set to OS.
I would like to set and using while login windows.

>>>Import os
>>>os.environ['Test'] = 'Hello '
>>>print 'Test key in this?=', os.environ.has_key('Test') 
Test key in this?= 0

But VB case OK!

Please answer.


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Hansen [mailto:stephen at myseraph.org]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:59 AM
To: ???
Subject: Re: How to change Windows Environment Variable

How about...

import os
os.environ['Variable'] = 'value'

--Stephen
http://www.myseraph.org/
----- Original Message -----
From: "???" <mkhan12 at kornet.net>
To: <python-list at python.org>; <activepython at listserv.ActiveState.com>;
<tutor at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:43 PM
Subject: How to change Windows Environment Variable


> Dear all,
>
> How to change environment variable on Windows NT or 2000 by python?
>
> In Visual Basic case can setting as below:
>
> Private Declare Function GetEnvironmentVariable Lib "kernel32" _
>     Alias "GetEnvironmentVariableA" (ByVal lpName As String, _
>     ByVal lpBuffer As String, ByVal nSize As Long) As Long
>
> Private Declare Function SetEnvironmentVariable Lib "kernel32" _
>     Alias "SetEnvironmentVariableA" (ByVal lpName As String, _
>     ByVal lpValue As String) As Long
>
> I will waiting for good news.
> Thanks.
> MyeongKi Han


From g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid  Wed Aug 29 09:12:28 2001
From: g.haering at ___skynamics.com.invalid (Gerhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:12:28 +0200
Subject: Hello people. I have some questions
References: <mailman.999080504.613.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B8CEA3C.9020706@___skynamics.com.invalid>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> 
>>I can't think of a time when I've ever seen Python stop. Slow down, yes, but
>>not stop.
>>
>>The truth is, even if there is something you can't do in Python natively, you
>>always have the capability to write a module in C that is callable from
>>Python.
>>
>>So the answer, then, is that Python stops wherever C stops. And I don't think
>>there's a person alive who's EVER seen C stop. I could be wrong though.
>>
> 
>    What about OS kernel modules? You can write them in C, but can you do it
> in Python?

Hmm. I've read an article on Slashdot that somebody hacked the Orbit ORB 
into the Linux kernel itself. So, you should be able to interface the 
Linux kernel from a Python ORB such as omniORBpy (provided you expose 
the Linux kernel via CORBA) :-)

I think if you *really* wanted to, you could hack Python to run in 
kernel mode, too. It would be horribly inefficient, but sure possible. 
Also it could be possible to write GNU Hurd servers in Python if one is 
determined enough to do it.

Gerhard
-- 
Gerhard H?ring
skynamics AG
g.haering at skynamics.com
http://www.skynamics.com



From tjreedy at home.com  Fri Aug 24 23:48:57 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:48:57 GMT
Subject: Question about indentation and bugs
References: <mailman.998693619.27471.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <JeFh7.132337$EP6.37027070@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.998693619.27471.python-list at python.org...
> [Terry Reedy]
> > *NOT* using {} redundantly for blocking frees {} for use as
dictionary
> > delimiters.  Anyone who suggests using {} for structure should be
> > asked how they would write dictionary literals!
>
> Easy!  Instead of, e.g.,
>
>     if 1:
>         x = {1: 'a', 2: {'b': 3}}
>         print x
>
> we'll rehabilitate indentation for dict literals:
>
>     if 1 {
>  x =
>      1: 'a'
>      2:
>          'b': 3
>   print x
>  }
>
> IOW, the body of a dict literal needs to be indented relative to the
> preceding stmt, and the stmt following a dict literal needs to be
dedented.
> Apart from those rules, you can enjoy the readability afforded by
curly
> braces to start stmts wherever the hell you feel like, damn it
<wink>.

Delightfully funny.  You example reminded me of a different use for
variable indentaton: outlines, such as I did in school.  (Yes, some
styles uses letters and numbers to redundantly indicate depth, but not
all do.)  I wonder if the people who do not like semantic indents
might be people who did not like doing outlines in school.

Terry J. Reedy





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Aug 10 02:35:28 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:35:28 -0400
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd) (fwd)
Message-ID: <wC4c7kKkXkHV092yn@bellatlantic.net>                

Grant R. Griffin wrote
   >>> l=[0,1,2,3,4]
   >>> f=open('e', 'w')
   >>> f.write(l)
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   TypeError: read-only character buffer, list

One could, of course, do the below:

  >>> l = [0,1,2,3,4]
  >>> f = open('e','w')
  >>> f.write(''.join(map(str,l)))

Yours, Lulu...



From dietmar at schwertberger.de  Sun Aug 19 19:23:07 2001
From: dietmar at schwertberger.de (Dietmar Schwertberger)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:23:07 +0200
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de>

In article <4aaca91302jcg at argonet.co.uk>, Mr  J C Greenwood
<URL:mailto:jcg at argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I want to run a programme, ITS-0/0, which I have downloaded from
> www.maitint. org. 
[snip]
> What do I need to do to run ITS-0/0?
> 
> I have a RiscPC 600 with a Strong ARM and RISCOS 4.02
Unfortunately you can't run ITS on RISC OS as there is no port of Tk which
ITS uses for its GUI.

Regards,

Dietmar



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 24 23:55:05 2001
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:55:05 -0700
Subject: Suggestions for simple persistance in a web app?
Message-ID: <283adf56.0108241955.4e18b07e@posting.google.com>

I'm getting ready to experiment with Webware.  I'd like to use a
simple database or somewhat efficient persistant store as I'll be
using the CGI-one shot version of webware and don't want to also have
to load a complete database into memory.  So, mysql, postgress, and
such are too heavy. I'll be lucky to find a way to run Webware on an
isp's site anyway.  Are there any alternative database libraries for
python out there?  SQL's ok, python objects to disk in some rational
way would work too, if I could load them without pulling every object
into memory first.  Thanks


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Wed Aug 29 16:17:03 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:17:03 GMT
Subject: programme call with popen
References: <a1afd3d9.0108290046.4af239a0@posting.google.com> <3B8D2533.9DDDF419@ccvcorp.com> <slrn.pl.9oqbqt.ok2.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <3B8D3B88.BFB9C8FE@ccvcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9oqjdv.ssu.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:59:20 -0700, Jeff Shannon <jeff at ccvcorp.com> pisze:

>> >>>> myoutput = fout.read()

> Hm, I'm not positive about this as I haven't tested it, but I was
> under the impression that since read(), with no arguments, reads
> the entire file until EOF,

Ah, right, sorry.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From tjreedy at home.com  Sun Aug  5 10:30:18 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:30:18 GMT
Subject: wow! (generators) - suggestion (yield saved)
References: <mailman.996997688.23101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_Lcb7.72889$EP6.17090454@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.996997688.23101.python-list at python.org...

> from __future__ import generators
> import calendar, string
> def calt(year, month):
>     month_cal = calendar.monthcalendar(year, month)
>     yield """<B>%s.%s</B>""" % (month, year)
>     yield """<TABLE BORDER=1>"""
>     for week in month_cal:
>       yield """\n<TR>"""
>       for day in week:
>         yield """<TD>%s</TD>""" % (day or "&nbsp;")
>       yield """</TR>"""
>     yield """</TABLE>"""
>
> print string.join(calt(2001, 8), "")
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> I like generators :-)

I like generators too, but here you could remove the def and print
directly instead of yield.
Or, append and join the list of strings withing the function, since
they are useless as individual items, and have no need to be yielded
as such.  But the above is arguably better than the suggestions to use
string+= instead (about 35 times), which uselessly copies the growing
string with each addition.

Terry J. Reedy





From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Aug 27 09:45:32 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:45:32 GMT
Subject: freeBSD 2.1.1 extension problem
References: <+UeuyXAErgi7Ewiy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <9md4d401l6k@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9okjns.du8.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:37:39 +0200, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> pisze:

> If your C compiler for FreeBSD doesn't have a wchar.h in a standard
> include directory, and you can upgrade to one that does, this might
> indeed help.

AFAIK Unicode support in FreeBSD is nonexistant or totally broken.
In particular even if wchar.h is present, wchar_t is not Unicode.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Aug 27 13:17:21 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:17:21 +0200
Subject: compiling Python 2.1.1
References: <mailman.998924903.22111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1bvdm9.nn2.ln@gargamel.hqd-internal>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:08:59 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>Hello, 
>
>I am trying to compile Python 2.1.1 on my Linux RedHat 6.2
>system and am getting
>
># rpm -bb python-2.1.spec
>error: failed build dependencies:
>        expat-devel >= 1.1-3tummy is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
>        db1-devel   is needed by python2-2.1.1-1
>
>While I have even two versions of expat:
>
># rpm -qa | grep expat
>expat-1.1-1
>expat-1.1-3tummy
>
>The question is, where can I find appropriate expat-devel
>rpm? (expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm doesn't produce one, as 
>expected, and rpmfind warns that expat tummy RPMs "doesnt export
>valid resources list")

*If* I have installed all the necessary files I just use the --nodeps and even
--force options. This may sound like a hack (because it is, hehe), but the only
alternative is adjusting the .SPEC for my distribution (SuSE), which I've grown
somewhat tired of.

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de       registered Linux user #64239
web:    http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/    public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))


From gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com  Fri Aug 31 19:23:19 2001
From: gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:23:19 GMT
Subject: language lawyering - doc strings
References: <mailman.999133424.21266.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1ylrerw5.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> [gcash]
> > I know this is being pedantic, but where's the syntactical spec for
> > documentation strings in the language reference?
> 
> I don't think there is one!  They're ordinary string literals, of course,
> and must be the first non-blank non-comment statement at the top of a
> module, or following a class or def stmt.

Yah, I know... I just noticed that nowhere did it say I could do this.

And heck, until now I didn't know I could put one at the top of a module.

Thanks...

-gc

-- 
Favorite god: Thor               Favorite song: "Hammer Time"
Motto: "Use a bigger hammer"     In my toolbox: 1 screwdriver, 6 hammers.
Often heard saying: "... then I used a hammer on it"


From wjiang71 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 17 00:32:35 2001
From: wjiang71 at yahoo.com (Wen Jiang)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:32:35 GMT
Subject: how to start a new thread from a GUI
References: <3B7B2CE4.E33809F7@bcm.tmc.edu> <9leo4k$198a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <D71f7.123070$g_3.18618906@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

Thanks for the advices. It looks like the easy way is still the spawn method
to submit and forget. The real worker process is a very computational
intensive job which might take days to weeks to finish. during the running
time, the user is likely to logout the X session, this could be really hard
since no GUI process could survive the quit from X session as I understand.
The solution I tend to use now is to write out the parameters and let the
standalone program to read in the parameters and run in the detached mode.
so the worker program would be able to run at background even the X session
is done.I have the worker class method runable as a standalone program
before I got the GUI anyway. The GUI could then be restarted later to probe
for the progress and intermediate results from the log files.

Wen





From nigelc at datacom.co.nz  Mon Aug  6 23:58:05 2001
From: nigelc at datacom.co.nz (NigelC)
Date: 6 Aug 2001 20:58:05 -0700
Subject: Long: Python Is Really Middleware
References: <3B667EBA.DA6C298@tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <8531be47.0108061958.2170639a@posting.google.com>

I've been thinking about this issue in a more or less independent
mode.  A basic framework for building customised, transactional 
middleware would be very helpful in using python as a glue language.  
I'm thinking of something between a TP monitor and an integration 
server like Crossworlds or BizTalk.

You'd need to build a backbone for the system that allows multiple
python interpreters in different threads or processors (to get around
the threading issues in the python interpreter).  It would support
for transactional API's such as XA and (maybe) TX (?) [starting to
tickle the limits of my knowledge of the X/Open protocols here]

There is a range of middleware interfaces for distributed communication
systems here, ranging from cPickle and sockets to XML-RPC, CORBA, SOAP
etc. in various levels of maturity.  I see something that integrates
or allows the use of existing communication libraries without trying
to depend on them (although the transactional hooks would allow systems
that implement CORBA transaction service or the like)

Does this make sense?

Nigel.


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Thu Aug  2 02:54:01 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 2 Aug 2001 06:54:01 GMT
Subject: [OT] Number theory  [Was: A use for integer quotients]
References: <mailman.996562926.4343.python-list@python.org> <slrn.pl.9mctcn.irh.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <3B68F032.60370A1C@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <slrn.pl.9mhu89.nvo.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:16:18 +1200, Greg Ewing <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> pisze:

>> numeral forms depending on the noun and vice versa,
> 
> Do Polish speakers' brains ever get into an infinite loop due
> to that?

Fortunately it can be partitioned into stages:

- the context determines the details of rules,
- the noun (which noun, not its form yet) determines the form of the numeral,
- the numeral determines the form of the noun.

Or maybe it's more like this:

- the context determines the details of rules,
- the value of the numeral determines the form of the noun,
- the noun determines the form of the numeral.

Or whatever, I'm not sure. But it works in most cases.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From rishi.roy at getiview.com  Tue Aug  7 09:49:43 2001
From: rishi.roy at getiview.com (Rishi R. Roy)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:49:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to use socket.ssl
Message-ID: <NFBBJOFMGKLCLFAJFCGNEECBCAAA.rishi.roy@getiview.com>

I have a compiled versions of python with ssl enabled on my NT system.  Ive
got a simple client server test running on it, but dont know how to add ssl
into this.  That is I have NO idea how to use socket.ssl to make an secure
connection.  I also have no idea how to generate a keyfile and certificate
(which seem to be needed by socket.ssl).  If anyone could help me by
pointing me to some literature and/or providing an example of a simple
client/server application, it would be greatly appreciated.

Rishi Roy



-- 
Posted from mail.opticominc.com [208.253.136.100] 
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG


From drew_csillag at geocities.com  Tue Aug 14 10:56:19 2001
From: drew_csillag at geocities.com (Drew Csillag)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:56:19 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses broke in 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 03:41:31AM +0000
References: <E15WM2L-00040z-00@mail.python.org> <mailman.997740501.18809.python-list@python.org> <cphevbe2d3.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010814105618.C27040@starmedia.net>

On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 03:41:31AM +0000, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Drew Csillag <drew_csillag at geocities.com> writes:
> 
> > I don't know if this was intended, but it appears that the metaclass
> > instantiation doesn't work with Python 2.2a1.  Are the old metaclass
> > things no longer supported in 2.2 or is it just temporarily broken?
> 
> Can you be more specific?  What old metaclass are you referring to?
> It's probably broken because I changed the Don Beaudry hook invocation
> to favor the new metaclass mechanism that is central to the new types
> in 2.2.

Take any of the code in Demo/metaclasses in 2.2a1.  You get tracebacks
of the variety:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Eiffel.py", line 113, in ?
    _test()
  File "Eiffel.py", line 101, in _test
    class C(Eiffel):
TypeError: cannot create 'instance' instances
drew:~/build/Python-2.2a1/Demo/metaclasses>../../python Enum.py 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Enum.py", line 169, in ?
    _test()
  File "Enum.py", line 128, in _test
    class Color(Enum):
TypeError: cannot create 'instance' instances
drew:~/build/Python-2.2a1/Demo/metaclasses>

I guess the real question is: "how does one go about writing metaclasses
in Python code in 2.2?"

Thanks,
Drew

-- 
print(lambda(m,d,y):['Sun','Mon','Tues','Wed','Thurs','Fri','Satur'][(
lambda(m,d,y):(23*m/9+d+4+y/4-y/100+y/400)%7)(m<3and(m,d+y,y-1)or(m,
d+(y-2),y))])(map(int,raw_input('mm/dd/yyyy>').split('/')))+'day'



From tigra_564 at mail.ru  Tue Aug 21 13:34:10 2001
From: tigra_564 at mail.ru (Tigra)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 10:34:10 -0700
Subject: eval errors tracing
Message-ID: <aaf95f4f.0108210934.3d5af6c5@posting.google.com>

Hi

Does anyone know how to print SyntaxError traceback for an 'eval'ed
statement. Considering the following code:
=cut
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys, traceback, exceptions

dict = '''
{
    'a': 'b',
    'c': ,  # This must fail at eval's compile time
    'e': 3/0,
}
'''

try:
    a = eval(dict)
except SyntaxError:
    (exc_type, exc_value, exc_tb) = sys.exc_info()
    print exc_type, exc_value, exc_tb, exc_tb.tb_lineno
=cut

This prints:
=cut
exceptions.SyntaxError invalid syntax (line 4) <traceback object at
0x810d1d8> 15
=cut

So the value of exc_value shows the actual error, while traceback
object describes what happened at line 15 of the test code (where
'eval' is called).
exc_tb.tb_next gives None (not the traceback of the string
compilation).

How can I catch the SyntaxError exception and get the real line number
from it?

Regards,
Sergey


From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Aug  1 02:20:19 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:20:19 -0400
Subject: Typing system vs. Java
References: <mailman.996620943.17056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B679FA3.7559B1F0@engcorp.com>

brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> 
> A few people have asserted that big Python programs would be unmanageable
> without this compile-time checking, but it seemed like they were speaking
> from other-language, and not Python, experience. Of the people who
> frequent the list and have participated in large Python projects, nobody
> has stepped forward and said, "we really had problems, and boy
> compile-time checking would have solved problems X, Y, and Z.".

I'll say it again: in over a year of Python development by a team now
numbering over ten, *none* of the problems that I can recall were in
any way caused by a lack of compile-time checking in Python.  

Or, for that matter, any other limitation of Python...  Python has that 
wonderful characteristic of all the best technologies: it's invisible. :)

-- 
----------------------
Peter Hansen, P.Eng.
peter at engcorp.com


From dalke at dalkescientific.com  Mon Aug 20 16:02:27 2001
From: dalke at dalkescientific.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:02:27 +0100
Subject: exec* exiting?
References: <3b80296d$0$322$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lpb0i01agb@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b80743c$0$319$8eec23a@newsreader.tycho.net> <9lqk541i6@enews3.newsguy.com> <3b81b5ab.211557072@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <9lsj6l$qeu$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Martelli-bot:
>:On good Unix-ish implementations, your process's memory is
>:only duplicated 'virtually', with copy-on-write.  It's therefore
>:no big issue to fork "a process which uses a lot of memory".

Mats Wichmann:
>Yup, [...] If the very next thing you
>do is "exec" the cost is not terribly high.

I've been worried about popen2.Popen3.__init__

        self.pid = os.fork()
        if self.pid == 0:
            # Child
            os.dup2(p2cread, 0)
            os.dup2(c2pwrite, 1)
            if capturestderr:
                os.dup2(errin, 2)
            self._run_child(cmd)

    def _run_child(self, cmd):
        [...]
        try:
            os.execvp(cmd[0], cmd)
        finally:
            os._exit(1)

In this case, what's the fork/exec overhead?  Various
pages are modified (eg, incref/decrefs to None, 0, 1, 2
and various variables; a change to the stack, a getitem).
Do OSes these days only modify-on-write parts of the
process or does a modification to only a part require
copying the whole things.

(Hard to grep through my paper copy of the Minux source,
and that's probably out of date anyway:)

                    Andrew





From paul at svensson.org  Sun Aug 12 15:33:16 2001
From: paul at svensson.org (Paul Svensson)
Date: 12 Aug 2001 19:33:16 GMT
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <mailman.997308253.24901.python-list@python.org> <cpy9os91sp.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <mailman.997568899.18926.python-list@python.org> <cpu1ze9hhy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <9l6lls$q6c$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>

Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> writes:

>Use of 'yield' as an identifier is not a silent breakage -- there has
>to be at least one defining occurrence of yield when used as a
>variable, function, module or class name, and that will always be a
>syntax error.

Not if you work hard enough at it...

def broken(x): return x
globals()['yield'] = broken
def broken(x): yield(17)
print broken(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Works as intended, no warnings in 2.1

	/Paul


From jeff at ccvcorp.com  Wed Aug 22 15:14:19 2001
From: jeff at ccvcorp.com (Jeff Shannon)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:14:19 -0700
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
References: <mailman.998495793.22898.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3B84048B.A9355D0E@ccvcorp.com>

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> import os
> import string
>
> print os.path.dirname(string.split(`os`, "'")[3])
> ---
>
> I tested it under 1.5.2. Does it also work under 2.x?

It seems to (though I used `os`.split() instead of importing
string)--I'm using 2.0

However, I would be worried about this being somewhat fragile, as it's
depending on the specific format of a module's repr()--it seems to be
constant across versions, but I'd hate to presume that it will stay so.

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International




From dalke at acm.org  Tue Aug  7 13:23:59 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:23:59 +0100
Subject: Perl/Python/Ruby common backend (Parrot, can Ruby play too?)
References: <72X97.12093$9i1.972452@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <X2Jb7.24637$C7.9671673@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9ko78h015vj@enews1.newsguy.com> <zwWb7.29640$C7.10332563@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com> <9kpeft$kbm$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <kuofprphmr.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <9kq0rk$p63$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
>you can do this:

>>>> def new_eat(self):
>...     print 'yech'
>...
>>>> Spam.eat = new_eat
>>>>
>>>> spam.eat()
>yech

I do want to emphasize that this isn't a need of mine.  I brought
this up as part of a Ruby/Python comparison, and I was stating that
I don't think adding new methods to an existing class is a good
practice.  Python's "magic incantation" as you call it is more
the way I prefer things, unlike in Ruby where this sort of technique
seems to be encouraged.

I mentioned the only case I've come across where someone wanted
to add a method dynamically to existing classes and all existing
instances, which was a development system meant for non-programmers
where there should be an easy way to change the system without
having to keep track of all the instance dependencies.  The
researcher on this system (as I recall) decided against Python
because it requires a non-standard/magic way to do this.

I don't have the use cases to help determine what would be a
better system.  There are dozens of possible solutions.

BTW, your trick of attaching functions to the class has its
own brand of magic:

>>> class Spam:
...     pass
...
>>> import math
>>> Spam.cos = math.cos
>>> def my_cos(x):
...     return math.cos(x)
...
>>> Spam.my_cos = my_cos
>>> spam = Spam()
>>> spam.cos(0)
1.0
>>> spam.my_cos(0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: too many arguments to my_cos(); expected 1, got 2
>>>

This is because builtin functions aren't bound into a method
reference, while Python functions are - something I regard
as a wart in Python, as the result is implementation dependent.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=f16901b55fd6962b,6&seekm=8
j83ml%242s7%241%40slb3.atl.mindspring.net#p

But at least it's documented :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Thu Aug  2 04:55:25 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:55:25 +0200
Subject: FEEDBACK WANTED: Type/class unification 
References: <m15SBbq-000wcBC@swing.co.at>
Message-ID: <003a01c11b31$021dcf20$9fbd6ac2@zko>

From: Christian Tanzer <tanzer at swing.co.at>
> That would be great. Of course, its not only the argument list --
> you'd like to use `class` in the body of the function, too. Would that
> be easily possible, too?

Where do you use arguments otherwise ? :)

BTW, it looks very ugly in editor.

gzeljko





From BrianQ at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 31 15:15:53 2001
From: BrianQ at ActiveState.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:15:53 -0700
Subject: Python descendant to Perl?
In-Reply-To: <7xlmk0oyph.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <003201c13251$5ad20e60$b503a8c0@activestate.ca>

> A language with a lot of resemblance (possibly coincidental) to
Python
> is the sometimes-unfairly-maligned Javascript.  Python is in some
ways
> a grown-up version of Javascript, with more features for writing
large
> applications.  The object models are quite similar though.

How are they similar? Are you talking syntax or semantics?

Syntactically, they both require explicit self/this references. Other
than that, what similarities do you see? Fundamentally, JavaScript
uses prototype inheritance while Python uses class inheritance.

And JavaScript is disgusting. It deserves to be maligned.

Cheers,
Brian




From dinu at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 22 08:47:23 2001
From: dinu at reportlab.com (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:47:23 GMT
Subject: When is a module imported from the standard library?
References: <3b8394bf.3928488@news.t-online.de> <9m095f$bh95c$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3b83a95c.9205446@news.t-online.de>

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:34:15 -0700, "Emile van Sebille"
<emile at fenx.com> wrote:

>Wouldn't the shortest entry in sys.path ending in lib give this to you?  If
>you're concerned that the path may have been tweaked maybe:
>
> o = os.popen('python -c "import sys;print sys.path"').read()

Well, there is no standard mandating it has to end in 'lib'.
On a Unix installation I could have '...lib/python2.1/' say...

Dinu

-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
dinu at reportlab dot com
http://www.reportlab.com
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From glyph at twistedmatrix.com  Thu Aug 16 18:15:14 2001
From: glyph at twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:15:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: socket + select
In-Reply-To: <3b7c2e70$1_5@news5.uncensored-news.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108161711250.26416-100000@zaibach.twistedmatrix.com>

On 16 Aug 2001, Doug Fort wrote:

> brueckd at tbye.com wrote:
> 
> > On 16 Aug 2001, Jo?o Alfredo wrote:
> >> Does anyone cold point me a example of socket programming using
> >> select/poll to handle several requests?!?

> <shameless plug>
> also check out http://asynchttp.sourceforge.net

Don't close that tag just yet :)

Another server infrastructure framework (which might remove your need to
deal with select() at all) is Twisted:

	http://www.twistedmatrix.com

Thanks,

> </shameless plug>

although-if-you're-ashamed-of-your-code-
	you-probably-wouldn't-post-it-to-a-newsgroup-ly y'rs,

                      ______      __   __  _____  _     _
                     |  ____ |      \_/   |_____] |_____|
                     |_____| |_____  |    |       |     |
                     @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x  . c o m
                     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph





From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Aug  3 06:30:31 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:30:31 +0100
Subject: why no ++?
References: <3B6A6B97.2060306@herts.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <9kdug9$1pce@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Mark Robinson" <m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk> wrote in message news:3B6A6B97.2060306 at herts.ac.uk...

> I guess it is perhaps not as clear, but I am not aware of it being a
> common cause of errors in C++ or java (doesn't mean it isn't, just that
> I am not aware of them). I also miss +=, *=, %=, /=, would it really
> make the code that much harder to read/maintain?

Using the magic of Guido's time machine, Python now supports += et al.
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0203.html

++ is more tricky. If it returned a value, you would be able to write
things like x = y++ and x == y++. If not, it probably doesn't add
anything significant to the language.




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Aug 23 15:50:58 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:50:58 -0500
Subject: New Python User Question about Python.
In-Reply-To: <3B8551CC.846C141B@home.net>
References: <20010822215737.01525.00001013@mb-cv.aol.com>
        <3B84B21F.542385F5@engcorp.com>
        <7xvgjf6wee.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <3B8551CC.846C141B@home.net>
Message-ID: <15237.24226.356750.310991@cb40507-c.elmhst1.il.home.com>

    >> Exactly *why* there is relatively little interest in improving the
    >> speed of raw Python.  We all realize a more effective way to gain
    >> speed improvements is to profile and then recode as a C extension if
    >> (and only if) absolutely necessary.

    Chris> I think this explains the disconnect I see between user's and
    Chris> developer's (of Python) interest in speed optimization: A person
    Chris> qualified to work on the Python interpreter can whip up a quick C
    Chris> extension to speed up the bottleneck. 

Even though it's easier for a more experienced Python/C programmer to write
an extension, they are still not nearly as trivial to write as the
equivalent Python code, so there is still a subtantial barrier to clear.

    Chris> A user like myself who is a C novice, needs to put a whole lot of
    Chris> time into that same C extension. If I could compile some Python
    Chris> (perhaps with a few static type declarations or something) I'd be
    Chris> a whole lot more productive!!

One thing that everyone needs to remember is that optimizing any language is
extremely hard.  Sprinkling a few static type declarations into your Python
code isn't going to help much either.  Tim Peters spent a huge chunk of his
professional career as a compiler/optimization expert.  He's been working in
and around Python for about 10 years now, but he hasn't produced an
optimizing compiler for Python yet.  (I keep waiting...)  I think there are
(at least) two reasons: it's hard, and it's time-consuming.  Perhaps if we
all scraped together our nickels and dimes and sent them to PythonLabs
they'd be able to hire another person to do Tim's current job so he could
spend the next year on such a project.

    Chris> I had high hopes for the Py2C project, it seems like it had a LOT
    Chris> of potential for allowing this, but it seems to be stalled out

There is a fundamental problem with Py2C: In many cases it gets you about a
2X speedup but generates huge object files.  It more-or-less unrolls the
interpreter's main loop.  Also, since it operates at compile-time it can't
tell what functions should be converted to C and what ones aren't worth the
effort.  A runtime-based system could observe what functions are consuming
the bulk of the time and just translate them.

    Chris> In short: yes, speed matters, and Python could be a far more
    Chris> general purpose language than it is if the speed issue were
    Chris> addressed as succesfully as it has been for LISP.

Lisp had a 30-35 year head start on Python and even today probably has a
developer pool that is much larger than Python's.  Also, it's a bit unfair
to compare Python's performance with commercial offerings.  Again, there are
only so many people around who do this stuff, they only have so much time,
and they get paid well to do what they do.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From jafo at tummy.com  Fri Aug 31 02:31:18 2001
From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:31:18 -0600
Subject: Python 2.1.1-3 RPMs updated with LFS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108310957140.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>; from rnd@onego.ru on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:02:39AM +0400
References: <20010830235029.A19626@tummy.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.BCL.0108310957140.28159-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20010831003118.C15629@tummy.com>

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:02:39AM +0400, Roman Suzi wrote:
>expat.src.rpm doesnt produce required expat-devel and thus I can't satisfy

You are using the expat RPM that is the second link on:

    http://www.python.org/2.1.1/rpms.html

If so, are you *SURE* it's not building the -devel package?  Did it build
and you just didn't install it, perhaps?

>that dependency. Also it would be nice if rpms were universal accross
>RedHat 5.x-7.x. I just do not know where to find right expat rpms.

The only way for RPMs to be universal across RedHat 5.x through 7.x would
be to continue to use all the libraries from 5.x and not upgrade them, or
to build everything staticly linked.  Most people would prefer to use the
newer libraries and kernels, however.

The SRPMs are about as universal as you can get, but in this case it means
that you need to upgrade your expat RPM.

>I know, lacking expat-devel is RedHat's fault.

RedHat's fault?  Why?  It was me that started using a -devel package, and
the expat folks are the ones how made the changes from version 1.1 to
1.95...  Time marches on -- things change...


>Do you have plans making at least RH 6.x compatible src RPMs?

As far as I know, these SRPMs work with RedHat 6.x -- as long as you have a
more recent expat.  I think that for 6.2 you'll need to remove the build
prereq line for db1-devel.

I'm not running a 6.2 box here though, so I must admit that it's not a high
priority...  If you can build them and provide me details on what was
required to build it under 6.2, I'll be happy to see about integrating them
into the main distribution.

I'll see if I can get a box to load 6.2 on and figure things out, but I
can't commit to a timeline for it.

Thanks,
Sean
-- 
 Put out fires during the daytime.  Do your real work at night.
 Sleep is just an addiction.  -- Dieter Muller
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Aug  5 02:51:03 2001
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:51:03 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: CGI: Run Script then load page
In-Reply-To: <9e231a88.0108042041.27368f6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0108051048300.2450-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 4 Aug 2001, Lang wrote:

>Any cgi/web person out there,
>
>I wrote a couple cgi scripts that I use to manage a database.  When I
>send changes through a form, it calls a script that makes the database
>commit.  Once it is done with the commit, it prints out a return
>button (that's all that shows up on the page) which needs to be pushed
>to return to the main page.  How do I call the script, run the commit,
>and then return to a given URL as one step instead of two?


Maybe you can use meta refresh?

<head><meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;url=main.html">

>I think that this is pretty basic, but I can't find an answer.
>Thanks.

But I've heard 1-click is patented. Be careful ;-)

>-Lang
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
_/ Russia _/ Karelia _/ Petrozavodsk _/ rnd at onego.ru _/
_/ Sunday, August 05, 2001 _/ Powered by Linux RedHat 6.2 _/
_/ "By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!" _/




From robin at brainexeculink.com  Wed Aug 15 08:16:11 2001
From: robin at brainexeculink.com (robin at brainexeculink.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:16:11 -0400
Subject: need definitive answer: capture a keypress
Message-ID: <90qkntktle172v8vdl6jgi9eh646of3n8f@4ax.com>

This question comes up so often, it's ridiculous. I've read all the
Deja threads to no avail.

How can one capture a keypress at the console, in a cross-platform
manner?

In Win32, I simply use getch() and kbhit() from msvcrt. Works great.

On Linux, I can use curses and getch(). But there appears to be no way
of checking for a hit, equivalent to kbhit().

What is worse, curses appears to interact badly with the standard
print statement, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to get
sequential text formatted in a nice simple "print" way, using curses.

There's more: curses leaves my terminal in an unusable state, even
after Python exits. I find this module unusable.

Surely there is an extension that provides can capture a keypress,
without getting into the wild world of curses?

-----
robin
robin at brainexeculink.com
(remove "brain" to reply) 


From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug  4 23:35:08 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:35:08 -0500
Subject: some questions unanswered - new programmer ...
In-Reply-To: <9khr6g$1igk$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>
References: <mailman.996953108.7259.python-list@python.org>
        <9khr6g$1igk$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net>
Message-ID: <15212.48876.892231.455321@beluga.mojam.com>

    Lee> What is this 'help'?

    Lee> I can do:
    Lee> print dir.__doc__

    Lee> but for
    Lee> help('dir')
    Lee> I get:

    Lee> NameError ...

Try

    from pydoc import help
    help(pydoc)

I have this in my PYTHONSTARTUP file.  Pydoc is pretty damn cool.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
http://www.mojam.com/
http://www.musi-cal.com/



From pete at ipartners.pl  Wed Aug 22 09:34:07 2001
From: pete at ipartners.pl (Pete)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:34:07 +0200
Subject: base classes
References: <9m04of$csk$1@news2.ipartners.pl> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000@spel21.nada.kth.se>
Message-ID: <9m0ccg$hqp$1@news2.ipartners.pl>

Fredriks

Yes, this is what I wanted to get. It means that you cannot have the same
attributes when they are public (w/o leading __)

Pete

"Fredrik Stenberg" <mail at fredriks.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.30.0108221436030.2351-100000 at spel21.nada.kth.se...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Pete wrote:
> > One question about classes. I have two classes, both have attribute
called
> > 'a'
> > class a1:
> >     def __init__( self ):
> >         self.a = 1
> > class a2:
> >     def __init__( self ):
> >         self.a = 2
> > class aa( a1, a2 ):
> >     def __init__( self ):
> >         a1.__init__( self )
> >         a2.__init__( self )
> >
> > AA = aa()
> > print AA.__dict__
> > --------------------------------------
> > this code prints:
> > {'a': 2}
> >
> > but if I change self.a to self.a_ in class a1:
> > class a1:
> >     def __init__( self ):
> >         self.a_ = 1
> > class a2:
> >     def __init__( self ):
> >         self.a = 2
> > class aa( a1, a2 ):
> >     def __init__( self ):
> >         a1.__init__( self )
> >         a2.__init__( self )
> >
> > AA = aa()
> > print AA.__dict__
> > ------------------------------------------
> > I got:
> > {'a_': 1, 'a': 2}
> >
> > The question is: cannot 2 base classes have the same attributes? What is
> > workaround?
> >
>
> I'm not sure this is what you want but you can always prefix the attr
> with "__" to get name mangling...
>
> Check out,
>
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011600000000000000
000
> (section 9.6 in the python tutorial)
>
> Example;
>
> class a1:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.__a = 1
>
>     def printa1(self):
>         print self.__a
>
> class a2:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.__a = 2
>
>     def printa2(self):
>         print self.__a
>
> class a3:
>     def __init__( self ):
>         self.a = 3
>
>     def printa3(self):
>         print self.a
>
> class aa( a1, a2,a3 ):
>     def __init__( self ):
>         a1.__init__( self )
>         a2.__init__( self )
>         a3.__init__( self )
>
> AA = aa()
> -----------------------------
> >>> AA.printa1()
> 1
> >>> AA.printa2()
> 2
> >>> AA.a
> 3
>
>
> /fredriks
>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Aug 23 13:15:50 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 17:15:50 GMT
Subject: Binding to specific IP addresses
References: <Fq4h7.15256$5_3.821076@news1.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <9m3do6$i32$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Graham Ashton" <graz at mindless.com>:
...
| The lsof program tells me that the process that is using the address is
| my dial up software, pppd. I find this very surprising as the 192.168.5.1
| address is the address of my ethernet card and has nothing to do with my
| dial up connection.
|
| Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Is there something that I
| ought to be doing to avoid listening on other interfaces?

Your Python program is OK, problem seems to be ppp.  You can bind to
a specific IP and its interface, but only if nothing else is already 
bound.  The following program successfully binds to the same port on
separate IP addresses and receives connections on the associated IP.
If it doesn't for you, then there's some problem with your platform -
but I assume you're running some kind of UNIX, given that you have
"lsof", and I find that even Linux gets this right.

If that checks out and lsof is right, then ppp bound to INADDR_ANY or
directly to this interface for some reason, and you can't have it.
If lsof shows it bound to *:port, then it bound to INADDR_ANY;  if
it bound directly, you'll see address:port.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
----------------------------------------
import socket

import socket

sf = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sf.bind(('100.100.100.100', 7017))  # substitute real IP 1.
sf.listen(5)
sb = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
sb.bind(('200.200.200.200', 7017))  # substitute real IP 2.
sb.listen(5)

print sf.accept()
print sb.accept()


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 21 00:40:22 2001
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:40:22 -0500
Subject: ANN: a new utility for Python developers
In-Reply-To: <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
References: <mailman.998259031.17203.python-list@python.org>
        <kug0ambkip.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
        <mailman.998342851.20702.python-list@python.org>
        <kuae0ub3j6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <15233.58934.689099.847717@beluga.mojam.com>

    Erno> yes, but since gettimeofday() has about 10000 times more
    Erno> resolution and the user time measurement on most platforms that i
    Erno> know of is so unreliable/imprecise, and that you probably need to
    Erno> be on a quiescent machine anyway to do profiling, this does not
    Erno> look like a very good solution.

I think you're missing the point.  It doesn't matter if gettimeofday is tied
to an atomic clock at NIST.  It's measuring the wrong quantity.

    Erno> if a cycle counter - a device that measures real time - is deemed
    Erno> a good thing to use on windows, it probably isn't a very important
    Erno> requirement to only measure cpu time.

Perhaps not, but Python is striving to present a time module this provides
some cross-platform semantic consistency.  time.time is there to measure
wall clock time.  Making time.clock measure CPU time on one platform and
wall clock time on another makes it worthless unless you know the details of
the various systems at your disposal (and if you ever want to distribute
applications, to the various systems at your clients' disposal).

Skip



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Aug 30 09:10:37 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:10:37 +0100
Subject: Ref Count Checking
References: <i$bZoiAf67h7Ewrz@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <4325613.PTg5d078U9@lunix.schabi.de> <t0iq6IAy$gj7Ewry@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <6qofoxbxdj.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <yHddG$ANtjj7Ewao@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <6qofoxbxdj.fsf at abnoba.intevation.de>, Bernhard Herzog
<bh at intevation.de> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> well I don't have to do that in my extension and things seem to work fine with 
>the external
>> results. Perhaps I'm being naive when I do
>> 
>> PyDict_SetItemString(attrs, name, t=PyString_FromString(sValue));
>> Py_DECREF(t);
>> 
>> ie I haven't interned anything.
>
>PyDict_SetItemString interns the keys.
>
>In the following example the interpreter interned a few strings for you:
>
>> Would the module need two extra refs as in
>> 
>> >>> from sys import getrefcount as rc
>> >>> p={'az1': 99999}
>
>99999 is not in the range of shared ints (range(-1, 100) by default
>IIRC), so after this statement there's exactly one reference to it in p.
>(During execution there were more references because literals are stored
>in code objects and they get put on the stack etc., but the code object
>and stack have been collected at this point)
>
>> >>> q={'az2': 'az3'}
>
>Here it's a little different because 'az3' is a string that looks like
>an identifier. These strings are always interned, so there are now 3
>references, one from the dict q, and 2 from interning. Interning takes 2
>refs because there's a dict of all interned strings which has the
>interned strings as both keys and values.
>
>> >>> rc(p['az1']), rc(q['az2'])
>
>When you pass an object to getrefcount it's put into the argument tuple
>python builds for every function call, so the value returned by
>getrefcount is always at least one higher than one might expect.
>
>> (2, 4)
>
>Thus, this is exactly what you should get for the dfault configuration
>of the CPython interpreter.
>
>   Bernhard
>

Yes OK I thought the interning must be the difference. When I get this
out of my extension I haven't interned the value so I see only a 2 count
for q['az2'] ie one for the dict and 1 for the rc(arg).

At least that lets me rest a bit easier about what my extension is
doing.
-- 
Robin Becker


From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Aug 27 23:27:51 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:27:51 GMT
Subject: newbie: activepython extensions, win32, COM
References: <9mf02r$1c8$1@hfc.pacific.net.hk>
Message-ID: <ds3motskeriubnj6nf9truaj9s6atp2fpc@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:34:12 +0800, "Kenneth Tsang" <smt at pacific.net.hk>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <9mf02r$1c8$1 at hfc.pacific.net.hk>:

:
:win32all.exe, build 140 (3.5 Mb) (for use with PythonLabs Python 2.1)

This one. Build 140 for Python 2.1.1.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 21:20:42 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:20:42 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <7f6hot47j69t1lggtr86bhvc6i2l5q1kn2@4ax.com> <mailman.998814219.31022.python-list@python.org> <pm5iotkp8d0q00kpqv31u1bmukqsp5fuh4@4ax.com> <3b89db9b.565789932@wa.news.verio.net> <9cojotgk3dmqr99cfbpeboaemgnudeqdc0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b8ac249.624843477@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:14:56 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
[...]
>
>Actually, I think what happens with Windows98, is that there is only
>exclusive lock. No shared locking (which is what one would want for
>reading). So, I could change the name of the file when a write process
>wants to acquire it. Otherwise, if the un-renamed file is there, it is
>OK to read from it. Do you think this type of approach would work for
>the reading part only? 
>
Yes, but there's a problem, because you need to be able to distinguish
2+n states of a file: (1) not open for anything (2) open for readonly
n>0 times (3) open for exclusive writing.

A prospective writer must be able to distinguish (1) from (2).
Renaming only by writer would be ok to stop *additional* prospective
readers from opening the file but the prospective writer must also
have a way of knowing when all *current* readers have closed the file.

BTW, note that renaming will fail with permission denied on win32
if the file is open, but not so on unix with its separation
of names vs inode file info, so on unix a file could be in state
(2) and you'd have no indication if you leave the name unchanged
for (1) and (2), and don't have another indication.

A writer has to be able watch for the count of readers to go to zero
one way or another. Perhaps you could have readers create individual
expiring read-lock files named by appending their os.pid() numbers
plus time tag to the name of the file to lock. Then the writer could
watch for all those to disappear or expire.

This only applies for high traffic on win32, but since on win32 the
writer can't assume ability to rename as a mechanism for preventing
additional readers when the file is already open (it get permission
denied, unlike unix), perhaps if the writer process creates its own
write-lock file as a first step, then potential readers could defer
creating their read-lock files if they see that, and existing ones
would cycle out or expire, and the writer could  rename and open the file.

For unix the write-lock file would be a waste, since renaming will succeed
unless the file is in orphan form. And unless you are fighting a humongous
swarm of readers all interested in one file on win32, it shouldn't hurt
to leave it out there either.

Note that the atomicity of renaming is critical to making this work. E.g.,

reader        writer
--------    ------------
[ck wlock]      .           <-not really needed except high traffic win32?
   .         [set wlock]    <-ditto
   .         rename         <-not safe to eliminate
   .         ck rlocks
   .         open for w
set rlock       .
open for r      .
   .         write
read ??

If writer renames or attempts to rename the base file just before
checking rlocks, then the reader's open will fail or succeed depending on
whether it happened before the rename. If the open for r succeeds, it means
that it has also set rlock before the rename, so the writer will see that and
not open for w. If it fails, then the reader failed to complete access and
should delete its rlock (which the writer would be monitoring). In the
open failure case, it would not matter if the failing reader's rlock was seen
or not by the writer. However, any prior reader's rlock that actually
succeeded in opening the file would be seen.

On win32 the rename would raise an exception if the reader had succeeded,
so the rlock check could effectively be accomplished just with that, but
as mentioned, that's not true on unix, so it needs to be in the waiting
loop for win32 with a try/except wrapper, and the rename should not
be repeated if it succeeds, as it normally will on unix.

It'd be nice if the builtin open had an option for exclusive access within
a specified timeout for trying ;-)

HTH



From ignacio at openservices.net  Wed Aug 29 07:00:41 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:00:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: char** to {'':('',)}
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108290546160.18216-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

I am using the following blecherous code to do a conversion from char*s in the
form "<a>=<b>" to the form {'<a>':(tuple of '<b>'s), ...}. I'm sure that
there's probably a more straightforward way out there. Does anyone have any
ideas as to how I can simplifiy this?

---
PyObject *MyObject_mymethod(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  MyObject *me=(MyObject *) self;
  PyObject *result=NULL, *key=NULL, *val=NULL;
  PyObject *dict=NULL, *list=NULL;
  char *str=NULL, *equals=NULL;
  int i=0;
  char **stuff;

  if (PyTuple_Size(args))
  {
    PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "function requires no arguments");
    return NULL;
  };

  dict=PyDict_New();
  result=PyDict_New();
  if ((dict==NULL) || (result==NULL))
  {
    PyErr_SetString(MyError, "Something most blecherous happened!");
    Py_XDECREF(dict);
    Py_XDECREF(result);
    return NULL;
  };
  stuff=get_stuff(me->field);
  for (i=0; i<me->numstuff; i++)
  {
    str=strdup(stuff[i]);
    equals=strchr(str, '=');
    *equals='\0';
    val=PyString_FromString(equals+1);
    if (val==NULL)
    {
      PyErr_SetString(MyError, "Something else most blecherous happened!");
      Py_XDECREF(dict);
      Py_XDECREF(result);
      return NULL;
    };
    list=PyDict_GetItemString(dict, str);
    if (list==NULL)
    {
      list=PyList_New(0);
      if (list==NULL)
      {
        PyErr_SetString(MyError, "Yet something else most blecherous "
                                   "happened!");
        Py_XDECREF(val);
        Py_XDECREF(dict);
        Py_XDECREF(result);
        return NULL;
      };
      PyList_Append(list, val);
      Py_XDECREF(val);
      PyDict_SetItemString(dict, str, list);
      Py_XDECREF(list);
    }
    else
    {
      PyList_Append(list, val);
      Py_XDECREF(val);
    };
    free(str);
  };

  i=0;
  while(PyDict_Next(dict, &i, &key, &val))
  {
    PyDict_SetItem(result, key, PyList_AsTuple(val));
  };

  return result;
};
---

And if anyone's interested, the module itself is almost ready for its first
phase of beta testing (six more methods to go!). Once it's ready, I'll post it
somewhere and whoever wants it can grab it.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From warkid at storm.ru  Wed Aug 29 08:14:27 2001
From: warkid at storm.ru (Kerim Borchaev)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:14:27 +0400
Subject: Using exec
Message-ID: <15676.010829@storm.ru>

I need to reference an object's method given a string representation
of it's name. Now I do it like this:

exec( "c."+MethonName+"()" )

or if I need to create an instance of class named ClassName I do this:

exec( "inst="+ClassName+"()" )

but it seems ugly to me.

Is it the right thing to do it this way?

Thanks in advance,
 Kerim                          mailto:warkid at storm.ru





From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Wed Aug 29 11:16:17 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:16:17 +0200
Subject: PyInline Released: Put C source code directly "inline" with your Python!
References: <4ff293df.0108281005.1b3b496c@posting.google.com>        <9mi3up$2934s$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.999095610.14454.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9mj101$2i0k1$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:mailman.999095610.14454.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Thomas> Inspired by the recent discussion of perls inline module I wrote
>     Thomas> the attached module, which is yet another way to do it.
>
> Worked fine for me except I had to change "python.h" to "Python.h".
It was only tested under Windows...

Thomas




From nhead at houbits.com  Thu Aug  9 03:59:25 2001
From: nhead at houbits.com (Nigel Head)
Date: 9 Aug 2001 07:59:25 GMT
Subject: pyFlash
References: <mailman.997339095.27883.python-list@python.org> <90F866642abbrvfgtyloup@131.176.85.36>
Message-ID: <90F866A7Babbrvfgtyloup@131.176.85.36>

> .... GET instead of PUT under

Sorry, should have read "GET instead of POST", of course!

N.


From m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk  Tue Aug  7 12:46:17 2001
From: m.1.robinson at herts.ac.uk (Mark Robinson)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:46:17 +0100
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <3B6FE3B6.5020605@herts.ac.uk> <3B700BA9.F9C624F6@raqia.com>
Message-ID: <3B701B59.40901@herts.ac.uk>


David Lees wrote:

> If your list is called 'x' then len(x) will give you the number of
> sublists at the top level, which what you are asking for.
> 
> david lees


true, but in order to have used nested lists I would have needed to know 
that when coding, unless I used some kind of recursive function call. 
Thankfully a few very nice examples have since been posted illustrating 
how to do that, which is what I was really struggling with.

cheers blobby




From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Aug 10 10:50:17 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 10 Aug 2001 07:50:17 -0700
Subject: get-a-cup-of-coffee slow (fwd)
References: <mailman.997395918.3058.python-list@python.org> <tja0l9.ug.ln@haegar.fqdn.th-h.de> <3B73E1BB.6825C31A@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <9l0sb90qah@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3B73E1BB.6825C31A at seebelow.org>, Grant says...
>
>Michael Linnemann wrote:
>> 
...
>> 
>> And here is the result:
>> 
>>   Version 2: 0.006
>>   Version 3: 1.005
>>   Version 4: 0.054
>> 

Here's my results.  (Some new versions are also benchmarked below):

Using repeated string "+=":

   Generating (Version 1)... done
   1.507583 minutes

Using string multiplication (this is by far the fastest one yet):

   Generating (Version 2)... done
   0.000098 minutes

Using list "+=" of "[chr()]":

   Generating (Version 3a)... done
   0.013425 minutes

Using list append of "chr" (which is slightly faster):

   Generating (Version 3b)... done
   0.012451 minutes

Using list comprehensions (faster yet):

    s = [chr(i & 0xFF) for i in xrange(65536)]
    s += [chr((65535 - i) & 0xFF) for i in xrange(65536)]

   Generating (Version 3c)... done
   0.009393 minutes

Using array.array('c'):

   Generating (Version 4a)... done
   0.008935 minutes

Using an array initialized via a list comprehension (I thought this might be
faster because it would "pre-allocate" the array, but it wasn't):

   s = array.array('c', [chr(0) for x in xrange(2 * 65536)])

   Generating (Version 4b)... done
   0.016283 minutes

trying-not-to-think-of-how-many-ways-it-could-be-done-in-perl
   -for-fear-my-head-will-explode-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From alberto at mindspring.com  Sat Aug 25 16:50:54 2001
From: alberto at mindspring.com (Al Gonzalez)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:50:54 -0400
Subject: lack of shell in Win2000
References: <jGTh7.21$Ks5.40555@nnrp2.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <9m963109fa@enews3.newsguy.com>

>From the Start menu under Program/Accessories/Command Prompt will launch the
"shell"

The shell in Win2000 and NT for that matter is called cmd.exe.

"john anon" <notta at chance.net> wrote in message
news:jGTh7.21$Ks5.40555 at nnrp2.sbc.net...
> at the risk of repeating an old question
> (I looked -- really -- I looked)
>
> if there is no shell in Win2000, how will we start scripts?
> from Explorer?  but ... what about command-line args?
>
>




From hnowak at cuci.nl  Thu Aug 23 11:07:27 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:07:27 +0200
Subject: zero padded string
Message-ID: <3B898B25@twigger.nl>

>===== Original Message From Max M?ller Rasmussen <maxm at normik.dk> =====
>What is the simplest way to make a zero padded string usable for
>alphabetically sorting?
>
>This does it.
>
>number="42"
>print (8*'0')[:-len(number)] + number
>>> 00000042
>
>But my guess is that there is a builtin c-formatting that does it shorter.
>I'll be damned if I know what it is!

Do you mean something like this?

>>> '%09d' % 42
'000000042'

I assume this is what you want:

>>> z = ["0042", "0004", "4100"]
>>> z.sort()
>>> z
['0004', '0042', '4100']

and not:

>>> z = ["42", "4", "4100"]
>>> z.sort()
>>> z
['4', '4100', '42']

Or, if all strings are actually numbers, you can convert them to ints and sort 
them:

>>> z = ["4", "42", "4100", "411"]
>>> z = map(int, z)
>>> z.sort()
>>> z
[4, 42, 411, 4100]

HTH,

--Hans Nowak




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Aug 23 17:20:11 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Aug 2001 17:20:11 -0400
Subject: NetUserGetInfo function problem
References: <mailman.998539054.12405.python-list@python.org> <3B84B567.42C84FD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <un14qqxro.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> That looks a lot like a count of seconds since Jan 1 1970, 
> but it still doesn't seem like it has anything to do with 
> Python.

It does because it's the Python win32net (part of the PythonWin
package) module that is translating the timestamp returned by Windows
into a Python time-module compatible value (e.g., a time_t).

> In case you didn't realize: comp.lang.python is for
> questions regarding Python and some general topics 
> about software development.  Platform-specific questions
> such as yours are more appropriately directed to another 
> newsgroup.  

Given that Python does implement OS-specific modules, I don't think we
should exclude platform-specific questions from the Python group.
MS-specific groups aren't going to help with this sort of question,
since the function in question is Python-specific.

Although it's always a good idea to try to identify the platform and
environment within which the question is being raised, since there are
quite a few permutations possible with Python.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From bokr at accessone.com  Mon Aug 27 23:19:20 2001
From: bokr at accessone.com (Bengt Richter)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:19:20 GMT
Subject: Help: using msvcrt for file locking
References: <djsfotomogdeba70gp1cuogjbt5ii3chrb@4ax.com> <uu1ytrw93.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <9pjlotkel6c130nech7aauff70l7r736jd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3b8b0a06.643208765@wa.news.verio.net>

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:54:49 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:

>On 27 Aug 2001 18:08:56 -0400, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in
>comp.lang.python in article <uu1ytrw93.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>:
>
>:Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> writes:
>:
>:> I'm trying to do some file locking on Windows. I'm running Win98, but I
>:> hope that the methods in the msvcrt module will work OK on any win32?
>:
Looks like I mistook your goal. I thought you were trying to do something
that would work on both windows and linux. Or are you testing os.name and
doing different things?




From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Aug 31 11:15:45 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 31 Aug 2001 15:15:45 GMT
Subject: how do i make a grapical thingie?
References: <fbwj7.40$YN5.244@pollux.casema.net> <jyxj7.15687$x84.3923863@ruti.visi.com> <iCxj7.60$YN5.429@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9otc1l.nsq.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <0RGj7.12$pD3.125@pollux.casema.net> <slrn9ov0ps.ofj.grante@grante.comtrol.com> <auLj7.10$j9.166@castor.casema.net> <slrn9ov43m.ook.grante@grante.comtrol.com>
Message-ID: <Xns910EAFE9BA72BPaCmAnRDLM@161.48.128.20>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) said :

>> just a gui for windows...
> 
> If by "windows" you mean Microsoft Windows, then your choices are
> 
>  Tkinter
>  wxWindows
>  MFC
>  
> Follow the links in my previous posting.
 
The emergent PythonCard (http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/), layered on 
top of wxPython, looks to be ideal for slapping simple GUIs together with 
Python scripts. Bit rough around the edges right now, but promising, and 
also as portable as wxPython itself...

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From jknapka at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  8 10:45:21 2001
From: jknapka at earthlink.net (Joseph A. Knapka)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 14:45:21 GMT
Subject: combinations of variable length nested lists
References: <mailman.997193173.24832.python-list@python.org> <3B700C33.1D161BAC@earthlink.net> <840bdd8f.0108080216.6dffdbc9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B715082.A6E3443C@earthlink.net>

xauau wrote:
> 
> 
> > This problem is a two-liner in Prolog:

[ipsnay]

> It is in Python too:
> 
> def permute(a):
>     if len(a) == 0: return [[]]
>     return [[x] + y for x in a[0] for y in permute(a[1:])]

Wow. So let me make sure I understand: this says:

>     if len(a) == 0: return [[]]

If there are no lists in a, return a list containing the
empty list. Clear enough.

>     return [

A list, each of whose elements is

>	[x] + y

a list consisting of a single element [x] prepended
to a list y

>          for x in a[0]

where x is a member of the first list in a

>            for y in permute(a[1:])]

and y is some permute() of all the other lists in a.

That is very cool, if a little non-obvious to the
uninitiated.

I've done some casual surfing around on python.org
looking for documentation of the functional-programming
features, but it's not in an obvious (to me) place.
Can someone provide a pointer?

Thanks,

-- Joe Knapka
"You know how many remote castles there are along the gorges? You
 can't MOVE for remote castles!" -- Lu Tze re. Uberwald
// Linux MM Documentation in progress:
// http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html
2nd Lbl A + 1 = 2nd Pause 2nd Prt GTO 2 R/S


From tjreedy at home.com  Tue Aug 14 10:20:15 2001
From: tjreedy at home.com (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:20:15 GMT
Subject: assignment to __class__ (was Re: Copy constructors)
References: <mailman.997597399.2823.python-list@python.org> <cpzo94dqvy.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9l9d4k02opd@enews4.newsguy.com> <cpk807e2pg.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> <9lb0kg01hkt@enews1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <zsae7.103129$EP6.26297869@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:9lb0kg01hkt at enews1.newsguy.com...
> "Guido van Rossum" <guido at python.org> wrote in message
> news:cpk807e2pg.fsf at cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com...
> > Exactly.  What's going on here is that I'm trying to tease out how
far
> > I should go with the safety device without making the tool
unusable.
>
> *unusable* is a *VERY* strong word.  Java is not "unusable".

I agree that 'unusable' is way too strong.  The bottom line is
preventing core dumps or otherwise trashing memory.  Given that
instances will no longer all have the same memory layout, some
restriction on class reassignment is necessary.  But I would stop with
that.

Terry J. Reedy





From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Aug  9 04:43:56 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:43:56 +0100
Subject: from __future__ import generators
References: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0108081815201.4585-100000@localhost.virginia.edu> <mailman.997310774.30348.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9ktige$sp4@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"gzeljko" <gzeljko at sezampro.yu> wrote in message
news:mailman.997310774.30348.python-list at python.org...

> Yes I know, but ...
>
> Is 1 'yield' worth 100000 'from __future__ import generators' ? :)

If you ignore them, they will go away. The future stuff might look
ugly but it is only temporary: I can live with ugly looking
scaffolding, whilst something elegant is under construction.




From ignacio at openservices.net  Tue Aug 28 20:02:51 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question: posix fcntl module
In-Reply-To: <v69oot0f2t1pd9iijdk23jq0kniujmcuuk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281947330.5290-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Sheila King wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:51:40 -0400 (EDT), Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
> <ignacio at openservices.net> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
> <mailman.999039163.17806.python-list at python.org>:
>
> :>From the fcntl(2) man page:
> :
> :"
> :       F_SETLK
> :              The lock is set (when l_type is F_RDLCK or F_WRLCK)
> :              or cleared (when it is F_UNLCK).  If  the  lock  is
> :              held by someone else, this call returns -1 and sets
> :              errno to EACCES or EAGAIN.
> :"
> :
> :>From <bits/fcntl.h>:
> :---
> :#define F_RDLCK         0       /* Read lock.  */
> :#define F_WRLCK         1       /* Write lock.  */
> :#define F_UNLCK         2       /* Remove lock.  */
> :---
> :
> :Those are the values you want to use. It looks like Python may have this one
> :wrong.
>
> Well, this sounded good to me. So, I tried this:
>
> ''' posixLock.py
>
> class lockfile
> supports the same function calls as
> winLock.lockfile
> export to LockFile.py: a wrapper module
> around the win and posix lockfiles
> '''
>
> import os, fcntl
>
> class lockfile:
>     def __init__(self, filename):
>         if os.access(filename, os.F_OK):
>             self.filename = filename
>         else:
>             errmssg = filename + " does not exist. Can't lock non-existent file."
>             raise IOError, errmssg
>
>     def getReadLock(self):
>         self.f = open(self.filename)
>         self.fd = self.f.fileno()
>         fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_RDLCK)
>
>     def getWriteLock(self):
>         self.f = open(self.filename)
>         self.fd = self.f.fileno()
>         fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_WRLCK)
>
>     def unlock(self):
>         fcntl.lockf(self.fd, fcntl.F_UNLCK)
>         self.f.close()
>         del self.fd
>
>     def flock(self, flag):
>         '''flags are:
>         LOCK_UN - unlock
>         LOCK_SH - acquire a shared (or read) lock
>         LOCK_EX - acquire an exclusive (or write) lock
>         '''
>         if flag == 'LOCK_SH':
>             self.getReadLock()
>         elif flag == 'LOCK_EX':
>             self.getWriteLock()
>         elif flag == 'LOCK_UN':
>             self.unlock()
>         else:
>             errmssg = "The flag " + flag + " is not implemented for flock"
>             raise NotImplementedError, errmssg
>
>
> But, in an interactive session, I got:
>
>  [snip]
>
> Additional advice is welcome...
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

Oh hell. fcntlmodule.so munges the parameter passed to it so that LOCK_UN
looks like F_UNLCK, LOCK_SH like F_RDLCK, and LOCK_EX like F_WRLCK. Whose
bright idea was that anyway?

But I think I have found the real reason this time. Passing no mode argument
to open() tells Python to open the file read-only. Guess what? By rejecting
LOCK_EX Linux is telling you "Write lock? Why the hell does a read-only file
need a write lock?". Same thing with 'w' and LOCK_SH. 'w+' and 'r+' can take
both.

So it seems that you need to take both a filename _and_ a mode in __init__(),
and then raise an exception in the appropriate locking methods based on
f.mode. You may also want to take a third parameter for initial lock mode,
just in case.

Also, you should make it so that the file is immediately opened in __init__(),
then close the file both in a close() method and in __del__(). In both methods
you should probably check f.closed to make sure that the file hasn't already
been closed.

Hopefully your problem has now been solved. Third (or fourth or whatever :) )
time's the charm, right?

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>




From gabor_papp at my-deja.com  Tue Aug 21 05:20:59 2001
From: gabor_papp at my-deja.com (gabor papp)
Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:20:59 -0700
Subject: tkinter canvas postscript and odd-even filling problem
Message-ID: <22886011.0108210120.1d01dbe6@posting.google.com>

i try to use postscript method of a canvas to
save a complex polygon in postscript format
and the result is different that it can be seen
on the canvas. 

the polygon crosses itself like a ribbon which
meets some of its parts. tkinter fills everything
of the shape, but postscript uses old-even type
filling, the parts where the polygon crosses
itself are transparent.

i tried piddle module, which works in the same way.

are there any modules which can handle this problem?
or utilities which can convert this postscipt file
to an other fileformat with same output as tkinter
canvas had?
or is it a problem with tk postscript saving?

thank you in advance,
gabor papp


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Aug 10 12:26:55 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:26:55 -0700
Subject: PySOAP???
References: <3b73dbde.489022847@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <3B740B4F.B97676FD@ActiveState.com>

Are you really looking for PySOAP or Soap.py?

Both are on sourceforge but soap.py has a lot more activity:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywebsvcs

-- 
Take a recipe. Leave a recipe.  
Python Cookbook!  http://www.ActiveState.com/pythoncookbook



From doug.fort at verizon.net  Fri Aug 24 13:31:24 2001
From: doug.fort at verizon.net (Doug Fort)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 18:31:24 +0100
Subject: Deriving from Exception (was Re: reducing if statements and error handling)
References: <e33814e8.0108210508.7644eeb5@posting.google.com> <3b8263ad$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com> <9m5to8$j0$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3b868f63$1_6@news5.uncensored-news.com>

Aahz Maruch wrote:

> In article <3b8263ad$1_1 at news5.uncensored-news.com>,
> Doug Fort  <doug.fort at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>With regards to number 2), I find that when I use exceptions judiciously I
>>don't need to have functions return a 'success' value. You can define
>>custom exceptions easily. It's a good idea to derive them from Exception,
>>but not absolutely neccessary.
> 
> Yes, it is absolutely necessary.  It's not currently enforced, but Guido
> has declared that it will be at some point in the future.  New code
> should *always* derive from Exception (or one of its subclasses).

Thanks, I didn't know it was going to be enforced, but I fully endorse it. 
(Now I have to root out the strings I was throwing in the early days)
-- 
Doug Fort <dougfort at dougfort.net>
http://www.dougfort.net

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
   With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
  


From wigren at home.se  Sat Aug 18 13:42:36 2001
From: wigren at home.se (Per Wigren)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:42:36 +0200
Subject: Python plugins
Message-ID: <E15YABS-0004aQ-00@mail.python.org>

Hi!
I'm not subscribed here yet (too high-traffic) but I will when I get 
broadband connection in a month or two. Please CC me!

I'm writing a wrapper-program for all kinds of archivers, diskimagetools and 
packers (tar, zip, gzip, bzip2, arj, lha together with programs to manipulate 
emulator diskimages like .d64, .adf etc). I want to keep the packer-support 
separated from the main program and keep them in runtime-loadable modules.

Question: How can I make my pythonprogram scan a dir for plugins and make 
them add the needed functionality (=archiver support)?

A simple example would be much appreciated!

Regards
Per Wigren



From KCT at EMIA.com.au  Tue Aug 21 21:31:05 2001
From: KCT at EMIA.com.au (Kim C Tran)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:31:05 +1000
Subject: Pythonwin does not run on my machine 
Message-ID: <c=AU%a=_%p=.%l=EMI1-010822013105Z-52479@emi1.EMI>

Hi,

I had installed python21 and I have no problem running the Python.exe 
but PythonW.exe(Pythonwin) does not run at all.
Am I missing out something ?? My computer is window NT

Thanks in advance,
Kim,





From wqh-2 at 263.net  Wed Aug  1 23:32:20 2001
From: wqh-2 at 263.net (sdf)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:32:20 +0800 (CST)
Subject: indent in xml
Message-ID: <3B68C9C4.09091@mta6>

I want to get the first child node of one node,but because of the indent 
problem(I think so),the first two child is not what i want ,but the '\n' 
and '',the xml file is:
<books>
  book>
  <title>Pierre: The Ambiguities</title> 
  <author>Herman Melville</author> 
  <price>9.99</price> 
  </book>
  <book>
   <title>The Republic</title> 
  <author>Plato</author> 
  <price>12.99</price> 
  </book>
  <book>
  <title>The Republic</title> 
  <author>Plato</author> 
  <price>15.99</price> 
  </book>
</books>

and my py file is

>>> from xml.dom.minidom import parse, parseString
>>> s="d:\\i.xml"
>>> doc=parse(s)
>>> doc.childNodeTypes
(1, 7, 8, 10)
>>> doc.nodeName
'#document'
>>> doc.childNodes
[<DOM Element: books at 11502084>]
>>> book=doc.firstChild
>>> book.childNodes
[<DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11610468>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11525428>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11622660>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11630100>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11637540>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11644948>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11652356>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11659756>, <DOM Text node "\n">, <DOM Text node "  ">, <DOM Element: book at 11667156>, <DOM Text node "\n">]
###############   how can I delete the <DOM Text node "\n"> and <DOM Text node "  ">
##      and what is the meaning of (1, 7, 8, 10)(the reslut of doc.childNodeTypes)


__________________________________________

DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm
??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm







From gmfawcett at operamail.com  Fri Aug 31 11:33:45 2001
From: gmfawcett at operamail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:33:45 -0400
Subject: Downloadable code archive (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E0?= la Java JAR file)?
Message-ID: <3B9929E5@operamail.com>

Hi folks,

Does anyone out there have a stable __import__ hook to allow the easy addition 
of an archive file containing Python bytecode to sys.path? (Or the URL of such 
an archive...)

I'm trying to roll my own, based on Gordon McMillan's installer utils, but am 
finding that the distutils/__import__ hook business is one best left to 
greater minds than mine.

The major problem with Gordon's code (for my purposes) is that he uses 
archives as flat namespaces, and I'd like to go hierarchical. The possibility 
of having abitrary resource file in the archive would be a benefit.

Thanks very much for your help.

--
Graham Fawcett
gmfawcett at operamail.com




From tim at worthy.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 20 03:27:58 2001
From: tim at worthy.demon.co.uk (Tim Howarth)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:27:58 +0100
Subject: Python on riscos
References: <4aaca91302jcg@argonet.co.uk> <ant1923070b02%2U@schwertberger.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <89d9e2ac4a%tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>

In message <ant1923070b02%2U at schwertberger.freenet.de>
          Dietmar Schwertberger <dietmar at schwertberger.de> wrote:

> In article <4aaca91302jcg at argonet.co.uk>, Mr  J C Greenwood
> <URL:mailto:jcg at argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > What do I need to do to run ITS-0/0?

> Unfortunately you can't run ITS on RISC OS as there is no port of Tk which
> ITS uses for its GUI.

How big/difficult would it be to port Tk using the toolbox modules ?

-- 
___
 |im    ---- ARM Powered ----


From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Aug 27 04:27:32 2001
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:27:32 +0200
Subject: How to access DBASE-Files?
References: <9mcrqb$9u3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <9md09l01eq9@enews1.newsguy.com>

"G. V?lkl" <gerhard.voelkl at rbo.de> wrote in message
news:9mcrqb$9u3$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi everybody!
>
> I have to read und write DBASE-Files, but don't want to use ODBC ( error
by
> writing).
> How is it possible?

http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/python/ offers
a dbfreader module, but that, too, works only for reading.

http://www.fiby.at/dbfpy.html offers a link to a package
that handles DBF files with Python, but it seems largely
unsupported.  Maybe that one can write the files, too.

There's a project at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbase-py/
but it doesn't seem to have done much.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/xdb/ is a C++ library for
dBase manips and advertises Perl and Python as languages
too (presumably via wrappers), you may want to look at it.

If you're willing to go commercial,
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2001-January/000641.ht
ml
announces a wrapper for the Codebase library sold by
Sequiter (www.sequiter.com) that should do what you
want, but the wrapper doesn't include the library and
you do have to pay for the latter (after a 30-days time
to evaluate it).


Alex





From wqh-2 at 263.net  Wed Aug  1 05:48:01 2001
From: wqh-2 at 263.net (sdf)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:48:01 +0800 (CST)
Subject: how to save xml (create with fuctions in xml.dom.minidom
Message-ID: <3B67D051.16780@mta2>

belowing  is example from document,but how to save newdoc to a file,
I use writexml,but failed.

from xml.dom.minidom import Document
newdoc = Document()
newel = newdoc.createElement("some_tag")
newdoc.appendChild(newel)

__________________________________________

DVD??????????10??  http://shopping.263.net/category02.htm
??????????????????????  http://shopping.263.net/category10.htm







From kwg at renre-europe.com  Fri Aug 24 05:19:21 2001
From: kwg at renre-europe.com (Ken Guest)
Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:19:21 +0100
Subject: I have a prob
In-Reply-To: <20010824035741.14313.00005094@mb-mi.aol.com>
References: <20010824035741.14313.00005094@mb-mi.aol.com>
Message-ID: <998644766.18095.14.camel@lewis>

On Fri, 2001-08-24 at 08:57, Patio87 wrote:
> I am like 2 hours into learning Tk/tcl and I keep getting this error
>  first i'll show you the code
> 
> import _tkinter

replace this with 
from TKinter import *

k.




From karthikg at aztec.soft.net  Wed Aug 29 02:17:13 2001
From: karthikg at aztec.soft.net (Karthik Gurumurthy)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:47:13 +0530
Subject: Python for XML processing (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <Q5%i7.11135$PA2.137160@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBJNMDEKBIBCMCNMBDGEEOCDAA.karthikg@aztec.soft.net>

i have a question,

i have written a few xml parsing stuff using python's xml library.
I c'd get things done easily.
I w'd greatly appreciate it if someone c'd point out the difference between
using say a
java parser like xerces and the one we have in the python library.
any advantages?? etc?
if it's about implemnting the same interface w'd ther be any major
difference?

thanks,
karthik.



From ignacio at openservices.net  Thu Aug 30 23:35:46 2001
From: ignacio at openservices.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:35:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: piiiipes!!
In-Reply-To: <2df3d89d.0108301918.748d18d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108302333350.25646-100000@terbidium.openservices.net>

On 30 Aug 2001, Jeff Grimmett wrote:

>   while (t = file_1_read_object.read()):
>      process_stuff()
>      file_2_write_object.write(t)

t = file_1_read_object.read()
while t:
  process_stuff()
  file_2_write_object.write(t)
  t = file_1_read_object.read()

Granted, it's ugly, but it works.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams  <ignacio at openservices.net>