do...until wisdom needed...

[Douglas Alan]

Courageous <jkraska1 at san.rr.com> writes:

> Well, perhaps you're a bit of a prima donna, but you may very well
> be right; I've observed over the years that the more exposure to
> various languages one has, the less dogmatic one tends to be.

I've devoted a lot of my time to evangelizing Python.  I've talked in
public, giving free Python tutorials.  Python appears prominently on
my web site (and no other language does).  I've rallied endlessly at
work against significant resistance for people to use Python and set
an example by using it heavily myself against significant resistance.
*Every* time I meet someone who is interested in programming
languages, I tell them about Python.  And if they use Perl or TCL, I
patiently explain to them the benefits that they would see by
switching to Python.  Consequently, I have *earned* my right to
criticize Python.  I do it out of love.

I have no qualms with someone who disagrees with my assessments and
thinks the coin should land on the other side of a trade-off (all of
life is about trade-offs), but it rankles my sensibilities when
someone claims that I am an ignoramus who hasn't thought about the
issues enough and isn't familiar with the Python aesthetic.  All of
these things are quite untrue.

> I hope you're not mistaking you interaction with this one person as
> some kind of indication of the character of the Python community, by
> the way: Pythoners tend to be fairly open minded, in general, even
> if we do value simplicity to the point of being rather rabid about
> it.

My experience prior to Alex Martelli and Steve Lamb was always good,
so I'll try not to let them get to me.  I agree that simplicity is a
virtue.  I don't want Python to end up like Common Lisp, the kitchen
sink of programming languages.  Dylan, however, avoided that mistake
and has macros, multimethods, etc., so it sets an example of what is
possible in a non-obese language.

> Mr. Peters was quite right: the correct thing to do is submit a PEP.
> Major bonus points if you grab the Python source and create a
> patch which allows hygienic procedural macros for those who
> would like to add this patch to their installation.

I'll put it on my schedule to think about how to do it right.  But
first I have to design a whole new language for this course I'm in the
middle of taking....

|>oug