Tangential anti-educationist rant (was: what is easier to lea rn first?...)
Juergen A. Erhard
jae at ilk.de
Wed Mar 22 03:49:14 EST 2000
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Hi Alessandro,
>>>>> "Alessandro" == Alessandro Bottoni <Alessandro.Bottoni at think3.com> writes:
Alessandro> This topic is somehow more complicated.
Alessandro> A few days ago, I tried to propose a course of "basic"
Alessandro> computer programming, aimed to PC Windows users
Alessandro> without any previous experience in programming. The
Alessandro> course was based on Python, for obvious reasons.
Alessandro> The immediate response of the involved boss was: -
Alessandro> "Py-what? What in the hell is 'Pizon'?! Let apart this
Alessandro> academic bullshit and teach the good, old Basic, if do
Alessandro> not want to use C!"
Alessandro> (He is not my company boss...for the chronicle)
Alessandro> It is evident that there is a "marketing" problem
Alessandro> here: you just cannot hang a poster in the local high
Alessandro> school's hall, announcing a Python (or Scheme,
Alessandro> Haskell, Eiffel, or... fill-in the blank) language,
Alessandro> and hope it will attract people from all around the
Alessandro> world.
Alessandro> As usual, you have to speak a "language" that your
Alessandro> intended audience (first of all your paying boss..)
Alessandro> can understand. Python is not "understandable" by
Alessandro> aspiring programmers as a desirable skill, at least
Alessandro> here.
Alessandro> Basic and C are well-known, no more than
Alessandro> well-known. Hence, they are understandable. A kid can
Alessandro> aspire to learn them, just because he knows that they
Alessandro> exists and that they are widely used (he just does not
Alessandro> know that they are widely hated, as well...). This is
Alessandro> not true in the case of Python and many other
Alessandro> languages: my boss and my audience just do not know
Alessandro> what Python is and how widely it is used.
Alessandro> I'm afraid it will take time to have Python as a
Alessandro> "teachable" language, politically speaking. Guido's
Alessandro> effort in the direction of the "Programming Language
Alessandro> for EveryBody" is crucial for opening this "market".
I hate to say it, but I think well-known Python-based projects will do
a lot more on that front than any CP4E will...
You mention it yourself: We have to understand just *why* C and C++
are taught to beginners (or Basic). It's because the *use* of these
languages is wide and well-known. There are a million and one
projects (both free and proprietary) out there in *those* languages.
Whenever someone sees an interesting project to work on, or looks for
example code to learn from (be it student or teacher), what do they
easily find? C++ (more than C), Java (tons), Basic (megatons ;-)...
Looking for Python? Well, there's... there's... what *is* there,
dammit?!
Zope is getting more visible, Mailman seems to be a winner (I hope it
will supplant all the ezmlms, smartlists and Majordomos I have
subscriptions on).
*Those* will be what moves Python into becoming a language that is
being taught.
At least that's M(S-H)O.
Bye, J
PS: BTW, is there a list of Python-based apps somewhere? I'm not
online ATM, so I can't check... it would be a nice tool for advocacy
purposes to have a short list of `presentable' apps and tools. And I
don't mean something like Parnassus, which you have to browse... I'm
thinking of a short list of about 5 to 10 items...
- --
Jürgen A. Erhard eMail: jae at ilk.de phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard
GTK - Free X Toolkit (http://www.gtk.org)
pros do it for money -- amateurs out of love.
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