Whitespace as syntax (was Re: Python Rocks!)

[fcahoon at my-deja.com]

You know, Patrick, when viewed from deja.com, the way you've quoted me
is seriously mis-formatted.  I think the problem stems from your use of
tabs as indentation.  Here, take a look:

http://www.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=582911827.1

Good thing it's not python code, eh?

In article <00020717051900.00606 at quadra.teleo.net>,
  Patrick Phalen <python-list at teleo.net> wrote:
> [fcahoon at my-deja.com, on Mon, 07 Feb 2000]
>
>         If python code were to become mis-formatted (and given my
experience, I
>         have to believe that sooner or later this _will_ happen) there
is _no
>         way_ to be certain what the original author's intent was, much
less to
>         fix it automatically.  This is a Bad Thing(tm).
>
> This could be a Bad Thing, if the coders involved failed to follow the
> very practices which Python's design encourages: write small,
> manageable, modules. I fail to see how any project written in a sane,
> modular way could be made inscrutable by the sort of inadvertence to
> which you refer.

Isn't that true of any language, though?  If the developers write in
small, managable modules, the result will be much more maintainable.
It's just common sense to write that way.

>  [ ... enthusiasm about Perl's decline snipped, before I realized that
I would refer to it later (oops!) ...]


>         Some of you may argue that, if Python is not a good language,
how did it
>         become so popular?  Once a scripting language like Perl or
Python
>         acquires a "critical mass" of followers, it will experience
exponential
>         growth, because the availability of modules affects the
usability of the
>         language in real-world applications and the usability (or
rather, use)
>         of the language leads to the creation of more modules, in a
>         positive-feedback loop.  Python does address some of the
shortcomings of
>         Perl -- notably, it is far more maintainable in a
multi-developer
>         envirionment -- despite the flawed decision to use whitespace
as syntax.
>         This fact, and a butterfly flapping its wings in the Amazon
jungle, has
>         led Python to achieve "critical mass".
>
> This is specious and ill-informed. You do have a bit of a nerve coming
> on this newsgroup and suggesting that the thousands of serious
> programmers (many of them former Perl hackers) who use Python daily do
> so for the sole reason of a slight edge in maintainability. Or that
> Python's popularity is the result of some unexplainable initial
> condition.

Earlier in your post, you expressed pleasure at the prospect of Perl's
popularity waning (oops, I snipped that part before realizing I would be
referring to it).  If Perl is such a bad language (and I agree, Perl
does have some _serious_ problems), why does its popularity still
surpass that of Python by a considerable margin?  Would it take "nerve"
to suggest that factors outside the intrinsic value of the language
itself played a role?  Maybe on comp.lang.perl, but not here.

I think that a great deal of Perl's success can be attributed to the
fact that it was the first language in its class (that is, "modern
scripting languages") to gain a certain level of recognition and thus
now has the greatest number of modules available for it.  Would you
agree with that?  If not, please tell me what makes Perl such a popular
language.  If so, please tell me why similar statements about Python on
my part must necessarily be mistaken.

As for "initial conditions": anything that is dynamic, living, and
growing, like a language community, will naturally have a great deal of
dependence on initial conditions.  That's the way the world works.

> [ ... remainder snipped for brevity (hope that's ok) ... ]

f



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