[Python-ideas] A way out of Meta-hell (was: A (meta)class algebra)

[Stephen Hansen]

>
> > I am trying to solve this problem. What I posted was just one simple
> > idea how to solve it. Another one is the idea I posted earlier, the
> > idea was to add metaclasses using __add__. People didn't like the
> > __add__, so I implemented that with a new method called merge,
> > it's here: https://github.com/tecki/cpython/commits/metaclass-merge
> >
> > Instead of yelling at me that my solutions are too complicated,
>
> Hello,
> I am very sorry that my post came across as yelling. I had no
> intention of that, though on re-reading it is rather harsh.
> I will try to be less confrontational in the future.
>


No. I'm sorry, but this needs to be responded to.

I'm a lurker, and find this discussion barely interesting at its best --
I've never had to combine metaclasses and no compelling case has been shown
to my mind to interest me in fixing a so-called problem.

That said: In no way, shape or form did Petr "yell" at you. In no way shape
or form was his response not an entirely technical argument made with
detail and consideration. Its wholly inappropriate to respond to a
criticism or critique with an accusation of "yelling" or implying your
point of view is being bullied when its simply someone showing disagreement.

No one yelled. No one was in any way even kind of abrasive or rude. Someone
disagreed and laid out why.

To come back on them with an accusation of yelling-- bullying, really-- is
inappropriate, at best. Please don't do it.

That said: I really don't think you've made a case for what this is
solving.

I've used metaclasses many times, and have never run into this issue. I
know there's some problems when Python is bridging with foreign object
models-- ie, QT-- but does this really solve it? Is it really needed, and
what's easier? To my reading of the thread previous, there were several
people thinking that metaclasses were nuanced and problematic, but not that
the problems you're trying to solve are fixable or even meaningful in
context. People saying "there are issues with metaclasses" do not create a
consensus to solve it by... this... thing... you're proposing is an their
consensus. I don't know what its supposed to answer.

All in all, this entire thread just makes me disinterested immediately as
"not a problem", personally. What's wrong that you're solving? You want to
combine metaclasses -- but that entire idea seems slightly nonsensical to
me because how do you know what any metaclass will do?

Meta-metaclasses sounds like a rabbit hole without a destination in mind.
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