[Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

[Cyd Haselton]

On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Zachary Ware <zachary.ware at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, January 24, 2015, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 5:45:28 PM Gregory P. Smith <greg at krypto.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 11:20:02 AM M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 23.01.2015 19:48, Matthias Klose wrote:
>>>> > On 01/23/2015 06:30 PM, Cyd Haselton wrote:
>>>> >> Related to my earlier question regarding building Python on Android
>>>> >> and an undefined reference to dlopen error...I have the following
>>>> >> question:  Is it possible to build and install Python without having
>>>> >> to build and install...or use...distutils?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Some background:
>>>> >> I can build the python interpreter on my device, and I can build a
>>>> >> bunch of modules.  The problem appears when make reaches the part
>>>> >> where setup.py is used to build and import modules...specifically
>>>> >> when
>>>> >> setup.py attempts to import distutils.core.
>>>> >
>>>> > you can do this using Setup.local. This works for me building
>>>> > additional
>>>> > extensions as builtins.  It might require some tweaking to build
>>>> > everything.
>>>>
>>>> You may want to have a look at the Setup files we're using
>>>> in eGenix PyRun, which uses them to force static builds of the
>>>> various built-in extensions.
>>>>
>>>> Look for these files:
>>>>
>>>> PyRun/Runtime/Setup.PyRun-2.7
>>>> PyRun/Runtime/Setup.PyRun-3.4
>>>>
>>>> in the source archives:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.egenix.com/products/python/PyRun/
>>>>
>>>> > Otoh, I would like to get rid off the setup.py altogether (/me ducks
>>>> > ...).
>>>>
>>>> Why ? It's great for finding stuff on your system and configuring
>>>> everything without user intervention (well, most of the time :-)).
>>>
>>>
>>> Because our setup.py is a nightmare of arbitrary code run in a linear
>>> fashion with ad-hoc checks for things that are unlike how any other project
>>> on the planet determines what is available on your system.  It may have
>>> seemed "great" when it was created in 2001.  It really shows its age now.
>>>
>>> It defeats build parallelism and dependency declaration.
>>> It also prevents cross compilation.
>>>
>>> Building an interpreter with a limited standard library on your build
>>> host so that you can run said interpreter to have it drive the remainder of
>>> your build is way more self hosting that we rightfully need to be for
>>> CPython.
>>
>>
>> So are you suggesting to add the build rules to configure and the Makefile
>> -- and Windows build file -- in order to drop setup.py?
>
>
> Windows already doesn't use setup.py. There are a lot more modules built-in
> on Windows, and others have their own project files; distutils isn't used at
> all.
>
>
Is there a way to either a) remove setup.py from the Makefile install
targets or b) remove it entirely?  Regarding b) is it Setup.local that
should be configured or Setup?