[Python-Dev] Distutils ML wrap-up: setup.cfg new format

[Michael Foord]

Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>   
>> I did offer a concrete criterion for an individual's participation in
>> a "internal consensus": that you expect that they will adopt the new
>> features of distutils as a foundation for their own distribution
>> systems, or at least not implement and promote an alternative.
>>
>> As for who needs to be included, if the author of setuptools isn't
>> part of the internal consensus (on that, I'm just guessing from the
>> fact that he went off to "start a new thread"), I think you should be
>> concerned.  He's already implemented and promoted an alternative in
>> the past, so he doesn't even have to do any implementation.  Just keep
>> on using and promoting his preferred tools and formats.
>>     
>
> While it's great to have Philipp being part of our distutils design
> discussions,
> for his experience, I am not concerned of not having him in this "internal
> consensus" since Setuptools is not maintained anymore.
>
> He said some months ago, he would work on a brand new setuptools
> version with zero
> dependency to distutils. But it's still vaporware (from his own
> words), and the previous version is unmaintained for a year, so it was
> forked.
>
> The Distribute (setuptools fork), which is likely to be the first and
> only public packaging system
> on the top of distutils working under Python 3 (the trunk is
> py3k-ready and should be released
> in a few days), is pretty active, and none of his contributor raised
> against the proposal.
>
> But you are right about the need of making sure every package management
> project is involved. We should make sure that Enthought,
> which has its own package management system, is part of that consensus.
>
>   

Note that Activestate also have a fledgling package management system 
for Python (unreleased yet I *believe*) so it is probably worth reaching 
out to them as well.

> Also, I am more concerned of not having enough end users involved in
> that process.
> End users would be: any python developer that needs
> to package his code, or any os packager that needs to package a python
> distribution
> for his system. But those are hard to get involved.
>   

Perhaps post your summaries on your blog as well (which is aggregated on 
Planet Python right?) - including a description of the problem it aims 
to solve and how it will be used.

You'll *mostly* be reaching the same set of people, but at least it 
spreads the net a bit wider.

Michael

>   
>> Well, from the behavior of Philip and Chris, it seems that their
>> position is that there was insufficient time to put forward an
>> alternative design before the summary was posted to Python-Dev.  *I
>> don't care whether its true or not*, it's your job as chairman/
>> dictator to decide that, and we shouldn't discuss it here.  But merely
>> leaving the *impression* is damaging, and I suggested a simple
>> procedure (posting the summary to your mailing list and requesting
>> comments) that would very likely improve the summary, and also be
>> likely to keep unnecessary controversy off Python-Dev.
>>     
>
> Please note that the controversy that popped in python-dev didn't popped in
> distutils-SIG after I clearly stated that I was going to send a
> summary in python-dev,
> (which I did four days after). No one commented on it then.
>
> Next time I'll wait a week and I will also send the summary as you suggested,
> to make sure everyone sees the message, not hidden inside a big thread.
>
> But I doubt this will cut all further controversy once it's in
> Pyton-dev, because
> being controversial in Python-dev doesn't have the same impact for the writer
> and the readers.
>
> Tarek
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>   


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