[Python-Dev] Community buildbots and Python release quality metrics

[glyph at divmod.com]

On 09:17 pm, guido at python.org wrote:
>On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:35 PM,  <glyph at divmod.com> wrote:

>>Because the relevant community buildbot turned red with that revision 
>>of
>>trunk.  Keep in mind I'm not talking about every piece of Python code 
>>in the
>>universe; just the ones selected for the community buildbots.  It 
>>would be
>>nice if there were a dozen or so projects on there, but paying 
>>attention to
>>the two builders that do actually run right now would be a good start.
>
>Sorry, this is an unacceptable burden on the core developers. The core
>developers aren't going to look at the community buildbots (unless
>voluntarily) and they aren't going to roll back changes just because
>some community buildbot goes red.

OK, fair enough.  Taking a step back, I was pushing this really hard 
because to *me*, it seems like dealing with the influx of bug reports 
after the fact is an unreasonable amount of additional work, whereas 
immediate reverts are just an occasional, temporary inconvenience. 
Based on my experience, "We'll deal with the reports as they come in" 
sounds like "no".
>In general someone outside the core developer group needs to bring the
>issue to the core developers' attention and then a fix will be created
>if appropriate. Rollbacks are generally reserved for accidental
>checkins or checkins against the process rules (e.g. during a code
>freeze). Heck, we don't even roll back if one of our own buildbots
>goes red.

I think since the last time we had a similar conversation, other Twisted 
developers have been fairly diligent in reporting bugs.  (In the time 
they've been reporting Python bugs, I've mostly been planning a wedding. 
Others who have survived it tell me that eventually, this process 
ends... and then I should be participating more directly.)  I'll try to 
step up that feeback loop and get other projects involved.  I hope I am 
wrong about generating an unreasonable amount of work.
>I'm fine with requesting that the core developers pay serious
>attention to reports about 3rd party code being broken. The community
>buildbots are a fine tool to find out about this. But any policy that
>requires an automatic rollback because a buildbot (community or core)
>goes red is unacceptable.

Thanks.  I appreciate it; an increased emphasis on 3rd party code being 
broken is really what I was looking for.  This is fine with me.  I mean, 
whatever your decision is, I'm going to have to live with it :), but in 
either case, we have to be looking for bugs and helping to investigate 
them.  On my end of things I guess it's not going to make much 
difference.