[Python-Dev] Raising objections (was: setuptools in the stdlib)

[Barry Warsaw]

On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 14:57 +1000, Anthony Baxter wrote:
> I'm not sure how people would prefer this be handled. I don't think we 
> need to have a PEP for it - I don't see PEPs for ctypes, elementtree, 
> pysqlite or cProfile, either. 

Agreed.  If modules like these have a solid history of use outside the
stdlib I don't think we need all the formality of a PEP to pull them in.
I /do/ think however that we need to be diligent in documenting them so
that people who don't follow python-dev (or the packages own development
forums) will become aware of what they are and how to use them.  Correct
me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any of the above are currently
documented in the stdlib.

> I don't have a problem at all with setuptools going into the standard 
> library. It adds a whole pile of extremely useful functionality 
> (easy_install, in particular, is something that people have been 
> asking for, constantly, for YEARS). Making it an additional install 
> is just silly. 

I agree.  My one stupid nit is that I don't like the name
'easy_install'.  I wish a better, non-underscored word could be found.
But as I've been a total bystander in setuptools development, I have no
real standing to complain. ;)

> I started refactoring some of the ugliness out of the internals of 
> distutils last year, but was completely stymied by the demand that no 
> existing setup.py scripts be broken. This means that the people who 
> are experts with the current code are fine, but everyone else has to 
> pay the price.

I've written some nasty setup.py scripts and I for one would be all for
breaking them and rewriting them if they could be done much more simply
and were better integrated with external tools.  Heck, I wouldn't even
mind a big ol' "if sys.hexversion" at the top of them for backward
compatibility for a while if necessary.

-Barry

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