[Python-Dev] SF patch manager...

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [MAL]
> > [Please excuse my ranting... :-)]
> 
> No problem -- you're not complaining about *our* software <wink>.
> 
> > I've received the first round of notification message from the
> > patch manager and can't really say that I like them. Ok, I
> > understand that the patch manager is still alpha or beta software,
> > but these messages really don't have any usable content at all:
> >
> > """
> > Patch #100646 has been updated.
> > Visit SourceForge.net for more info.
> >
> >
> http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=100646&group_id=5470
> > """
> 
> I expect the title of the patch was also in the Subject line, yes? 

Right, but that's just about all the information you get:
the title, the fact that something changed and a link to the
patch page.

> And a
> live link to the patch is certainly "usable".  I've found both those right
> on target as I've been assigned or deassigned to patches so far, although
> I'd sure like to see something in the body saying exactly *what* about the
> patch "has been updated".
> 
> Not saying I think it's good enough, am saying it's (barely) a start.

True and I don't want to put this down. The only reason for
my ranting is that I'd rather get more infos in mail than
via some link to a page. Discussing patches via quoting email
is just so much more convenient -- opening two or three 
browsers to get at the hard facts isn't and, as others have
already noted, is rather slow too.
 
> > Also, reviewing the patches has become a pain
> 
> I don't understand that, in that the text of the patch is what you got
> before, and what you can get now.  Is your complaint here specifically that
> patches don't show up in your mailbox by magic?  Or something else?

I would very much prefer to get the patches or changes
appended to the update messages (much like was manually done
on patches@python.org). That way I can read the patch and
then reply to the sender and the list community from within
the mail application -- without copy&paste, looking up
email addresses in SF etc.
 
> > and discussing them is nearly impossible (I don't consider the
> > slashdot like comment mechanism to be of any use: there's simply
> > no audience for discussion).
> 
> Wholly agreed there.  So use python-dev for discussions for now; I agree too
> with Guido that the rampant but inconsistent x-posting between patches and
> python-dev was part of the problem.
>
> > Is there any chance of tee'ing patches from SF to the patches
> > list or some other patch discussion and review forum ?
> 
> I expect you know as much about SF's possibilities as anyone <0.5 wink>:
> don't know.  The SF docs are either non-existent or inadequate, far as I can
> tell, and I believe I share a mistaken belief with Fred Drake that new
> patches "should" *already* be showing up on the patches list.

They are showing up there... at least new ones are. Discussions
(via posting comments on the patch page) are not relayed to the
list though: only the comment authors get an email.
 
> > I do understand that the mechanism can help with patch *checkins*,
> 
> Yes, but not yet as much as it should (e.g., the default view of patches
> lacks basic info like the patch current status, and there's apparently not
> yet any way to define a different view).
> 
> > but it's certainly not going to help much with the discussion
> > step needed before conidering any actions.
> 
> Python-Dev now, possibly roundup later.  OTOH, it's perfectly adequate for
> tiny little principal-reviewer <-> submitter give-and-take; many patches are
> really quite trivial.

True, but even small patches occasionally need peer review from 
more people than just the assigned developer.
 
> > The independent peer review principal doesn't work with this
> > kind of setup.
> 
> I think your view is warped on this one, as you've been in the extremely
> favored position of pumping out crucial patches for a hot area.  Most other
> peoples' patches have been flatly ignored for *months* now.  It's not
> necessarily bad if other people get some attention now too <wink>.

Oops, did it shine through that much ? ;-)

Seriously, I would like to see a processing speedup too, it's
just the workflow that bothers me a bit.

BTW, another great feature for the patch manager would be
a button to perform the actual checkin via the web interface.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
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