From willingc at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2019
From: willingc at gmail.com (Carol Willing)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 13:39:02 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] OpenMandriva and Fedora abandoned Discourse
 for development discussions
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFGkEM9hqUai++RJAD-CW6kUoTKQAJYzHjNn89aXJy49Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGFGkEM9hqUai++RJAD-CW6kUoTKQAJYzHjNn89aXJy49Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5C2095B2-49B4-46E6-9C62-0568E3F26843@getmailspring.com>

One thing to keep in mind which is not a vote for/against mailing lists or Discourse is that older projects, like Linux, have historically communicated extensively with textual information. As JavaScript and other third party projects, which rely more heavily on visualizations and UI, have grown, there is a now a greater need to be able to communicate visual information.

While these Linux distros may have gone back to email, it would be interesting to dig deeper into why and whether visual communication is important in these projects.
My instinct is that Python will likely use more than one type of communication medium once the communication PEP(s) are written.
Please keep passing along the interesting data points too. Thanks.
On Feb 28 2019, at 7:29 am, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> Maybe we need a new #python-dev-notif (or even #python-dev-bots?)
> channel for automated notifications and bots, and keep #python-dev for
> humans?
>
> Victor
> Le mer. 27 f?vr. 2019 ? 22:21, Matthias Klose <doko at ubuntu.com> a ?crit :
> >
> > On 27.02.19 22:11, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 3:40 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Follow-up of the previous "Can we choose between mailing list and
> > > > discuss.python.org?" thread.
> > > >
> > > > Python isn't the first project who "experimented" Discourse to replace
> > > > mailing lists. It seems like Fedora and OpenMandriva are coming back
> > > > to mailing lists, at least for "development discussions":
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss at lists.fedoraproject.org/message/XQLY3MRJLC4CFMIRSYU5LRQSOPFF532X/
> > > It sounds like their overall team is much larger than ours based on the
> > > tone of that email (is that true?). We have also talked about having both
> > > Discourse and python-committers for announcements which would partially
> > > alleviate some of their concerns.
> > >
> > > I also think it's telling that their decision to do this was done on IRC
> > > which is not a primary communication platform for all of us and suggests
> > > that it's possible the desires/needs/expectations of those participating
> > > are different.
> >
> >
> > well, #python-dev is another topic. It now gets spammed by many bots, and human
> > chats are lost in the noise. That used to be better.
> >
> > Matthias
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190301/075e527b/attachment.html>

From larry at hastings.org  Sat Mar  2 01:05:16 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 22:05:16 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] Last-minute request: please backport bpo-33329
 fix to 3.4 and 3.5
Message-ID: <eca9d6f2-14a3-0a17-2730-8d74cbb8fa84@hastings.org>


This bug in bpo-33329:

    https://bugs.python.org/issue33329

was fixed for 3.6+, but it also affects 3.4 and 3.5.? The bug is that 
with newer versions of glibc--which I'm pretty sure has shipped on all 
major Linux distros by now--the test suite may send signals that are 
invalid somehow.? As a result the test suite... blocks forever?? I 
think?? Anyway the observed resulting behavior is that there are three 
regression tests in each branch that seemingly never complete.? I 
started the 3.4 regression test suite /nine hours ago/ and it still 
claims to be running--and the 3.5 test suite isn't far behind.? 
Technically, no, it's not a security bug.? But I simply can't ship 3.4 
and 3.5 in this sorry state.

Obviously it'd be best if the folks involved with the original PRs 
(Antoine?) took over.? I'm sending this to a wider audience just because 
I'd hoped to tag the next RCs for 3.4 and 3.5 this weekend, and the 
original participants in this fix may not be available, and I'm hoping I 
won't have to slip the schedule.


Thanks for your time,


//arry/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190301/7c584aca/attachment.html>

From antoine at python.org  Sat Mar  2 09:55:16 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 15:55:16 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Last-minute request: please backport
 bpo-33329 fix to 3.4 and 3.5
In-Reply-To: <eca9d6f2-14a3-0a17-2730-8d74cbb8fa84@hastings.org>
References: <eca9d6f2-14a3-0a17-2730-8d74cbb8fa84@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <3002e29f-308d-3901-887b-fc7ae6c954fc@python.org>


Hi Larry,

Le 02/03/2019 ? 07:05, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
> 
> This bug in bpo-33329:
> 
>     https://bugs.python.org/issue33329
> 
> was fixed for 3.6+, but it also affects 3.4 and 3.5.? The bug is that
> with newer versions of glibc--which I'm pretty sure has shipped on all
> major Linux distros by now--the test suite may send signals that are
> invalid somehow.? As a result the test suite... blocks forever?? I
> think?? Anyway the observed resulting behavior is that there are three
> regression tests in each branch that seemingly never complete.? I
> started the 3.4 regression test suite /nine hours ago/ and it still
> claims to be running--and the 3.5 test suite isn't far behind.?
> Technically, no, it's not a security bug.? But I simply can't ship 3.4
> and 3.5 in this sorry state.
> 
> Obviously it'd be best if the folks involved with the original PRs
> (Antoine?) took over.

Well, I don't know how to backport a PR to 3.4 or 3.5.  I can only say
that backporting sounds fine to me (also: I don't really have the time
right now, and I'll be away the next two weeks).

Regards

Antoine.

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Mar  2 14:03:01 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 14:03:01 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Last-minute request: please backport
 bpo-33329 fix to 3.4 and 3.5
In-Reply-To: <3002e29f-308d-3901-887b-fc7ae6c954fc@python.org>
References: <eca9d6f2-14a3-0a17-2730-8d74cbb8fa84@hastings.org>
 <3002e29f-308d-3901-887b-fc7ae6c954fc@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7d83273-5281-d2f4-097b-2e6389132bac@udel.edu>

On 3/2/2019 9:55 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> Le 02/03/2019 ? 07:05, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
>>
>> This bug in bpo-33329:
>>
>>      https://bugs.python.org/issue33329
>>
>> was fixed for 3.6+, but it also affects 3.4 and 3.5.? The bug is that
>> with newer versions of glibc--which I'm pretty sure has shipped on all
>> major Linux distros by now--the test suite may send signals that are
>> invalid somehow.? As a result the test suite... blocks forever?? I
>> think?? Anyway the observed resulting behavior is that there are three
>> regression tests in each branch that seemingly never complete.? I
>> started the 3.4 regression test suite /nine hours ago/ and it still
>> claims to be running--and the 3.5 test suite isn't far behind.
>> Technically, no, it's not a security bug.? But I simply can't ship 3.4
>> and 3.5 in this sorry state.
>>
>> Obviously it'd be best if the folks involved with the original PRs
>> (Antoine?) took over.
> 
> Well, I don't know how to backport a PR to 3.4 or 3.5.

The patch changes < 10 lines in iterable_to_sigset in 
Modules/signalmodule.c.  The relevant parts of the function in 3.4, 3.5, 
and pre-patch 3.6 appear to be the same, though with different line 
numbers.  I have not used git cherrypick or python cherrypicker for 
months, but would expect them to do the merge.



From larry at hastings.org  Sun Mar  3 22:19:25 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 19:19:25 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] Last-minute request: please backport
 bpo-33329 fix to 3.4 and 3.5
In-Reply-To: <3002e29f-308d-3901-887b-fc7ae6c954fc@python.org>
References: <eca9d6f2-14a3-0a17-2730-8d74cbb8fa84@hastings.org>
 <3002e29f-308d-3901-887b-fc7ae6c954fc@python.org>
Message-ID: <05e7f3f1-7469-b484-9539-7e547a3461a8@hastings.org>



tl;dr: everything is now fine.

Cheryl Sabella made PRs and Miro reviewed them.? Miro isn't a core dev 
tho, so I also reviewed everything carefully and Approved it.? The PRs 
are merged, the regression test suite now passes in both branches, and 
the issue is once again marked closed on the tracker.? I hope to release 
my RCs later today.? (Right now I'm stuck due to an unrelated 
problem--permissions problem, resulting from recent server changes 
behind the scenes.)

Enjoy your time off,


//arry/

On 3/2/19 6:55 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Hi Larry,
>
> Le 02/03/2019 ? 07:05, Larry Hastings a ?crit?:
>> This bug in bpo-33329:
>>
>>      https://bugs.python.org/issue33329
>>
>> was fixed for 3.6+, but it also affects 3.4 and 3.5.? The bug is that
>> with newer versions of glibc--which I'm pretty sure has shipped on all
>> major Linux distros by now--the test suite may send signals that are
>> invalid somehow.? As a result the test suite... blocks forever?? I
>> think?? Anyway the observed resulting behavior is that there are three
>> regression tests in each branch that seemingly never complete.? I
>> started the 3.4 regression test suite /nine hours ago/ and it still
>> claims to be running--and the 3.5 test suite isn't far behind.
>> Technically, no, it's not a security bug.? But I simply can't ship 3.4
>> and 3.5 in this sorry state.
>>
>> Obviously it'd be best if the folks involved with the original PRs
>> (Antoine?) took over.
> Well, I don't know how to backport a PR to 3.4 or 3.5.  I can only say
> that backporting sounds fine to me (also: I don't really have the time
> right now, and I'll be away the next two weeks).
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190303/c6cc357b/attachment.html>

From larry at hastings.org  Mon Mar  4 04:23:33 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 01:23:33 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.10rc1 and Python 3.5.7rc1
 are now available
Message-ID: <a3d8c67e-584c-db8e-134f-66cf922f73ea@hastings.org>


On behalf of the Python development community, I'm chuffed to announce 
the availability of Python 3.4.10rc1 and Python 3.5.7rc1.

Both Python 3.4 and 3.5 are in "security fixes only" mode.? Both 
versions only accept security fixes, not conventional bug fixes, and 
both releases are source-only.

The "final" releases on both these branches should be out in about two 
weeks.? Of particular note: that release of Python 3.4, Python 3.4.10 
final, will be the final release ever in the Python 3.4 series.? After 
3.4.10, the branch will be closed for good and I'll retire as Python 3.4 
Release Manager.? I'll still be the Python 3.5 Release Manager until 3.5 
similarly concludes, approximately eighteen months from now.

You can find Python 3.4.10rc1 here:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3410rc1/


And you can find Python 3.5.7rc1 here:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-357rc1/


Best wishes,



//arry/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190304/491ea9e7/attachment.html>

From songofacandy at gmail.com  Tue Mar  5 05:07:34 2019
From: songofacandy at gmail.com (Inada Naoki)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 19:07:34 +0900
Subject: [python-committers] OpenMandriva and Fedora abandoned Discourse
 for development discussions
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGF2Jo7q5uJB7bPZPMifgSWjFDKfZ9FDH8dPUFuocE9JFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGF2Jo7q5uJB7bPZPMifgSWjFDKfZ9FDH8dPUFuocE9JFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEfz+TzigoBVY3t7LixS_8-VrvnpONn7b8CQ0PM2FNsWYvc1PA@mail.gmail.com>

Scala uses two discourse instances; users and contributors.
https://www.scala-lang.org/community/

This is discourse for Scala contributors.
https://contributors.scala-lang.org/

It looks discourse works fine for Scala team.

-- 
Inada Naoki  <songofacandy at gmail.com>

From ernest at python.org  Thu Mar  7 09:43:46 2019
From: ernest at python.org (Ernest W. Durbin III)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 09:43:46 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 2019 Steering Council Election Results
In-Reply-To: <etPan.5c582bf5.152d90c4.470@python.org>
References: <etPan.5c582bf5.152d90c4.470@python.org>
Message-ID: <etPan.5c812e22.69917e45.fafc@python.org>

Full results have now been published at https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8100/#results via https://github.com/python/peps/pull/915


On February 4, 2019 at 7:11:36 AM, Ernest W. Durbin III (ernest at python.org) wrote:

Voting closed at 2019-02-04 12:00 UTC as prescribed in [PEP 8100](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8100/).

Of 96 eligible voters, 69 cast ballots.

The top five vote-getters are:

- Barry Warsaw
- Brett Cannon
- Carol Willing
- Guido van Rossum
- Nick Coghlan

No conflict of interest as defined in PEP 13 were observed.

Eligible voters have received result notification emails from helios, and may return to the system to audit/verify the results.

Thanks to all participants! It was an honor serving as the administrator for the governance votes.

-Ernest W. Durbin III
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190307/17c4cd44/attachment.html>

From nad at python.org  Thu Mar  7 09:49:34 2019
From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 09:49:34 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 3.7.3rc1 cutoff ahead
Message-ID: <9309FDF7-084F-46F7-A3AF-3312E22FC0C6@python.org>

https://discuss.python.org/t/3-7-3rc1-cutoff-ahead/995

A reminder: it is time for the next quarterly maintenance release of Python 3.7. The cutoff for 3.7.3rc1 is scheduled for Monday 2019-03-11  by the end of the day AOE. Please review open issues and ensure that any that you believe need to be addressed in 3.7.3 are either resolved or marked as a release blocker.  And any assistance you can provide in helping resolve issues will be greatly appreciated!  Following the rc1 cutoff, changes merged to the 3.7 branch will be released in 3.7.4 three months from now unless you mark the issue as a release blocker prior to 3.7.3 final, planned for 2019-03-25, and explain why the change should be cherry-picked into the final release.

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0537/

  --
    Ned Deily
    nad at python.org -- []


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190307/ec0da13d/attachment.html>

From larry at hastings.org  Sun Mar 10 01:50:43 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2019 22:50:43 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Last-minute request: please
 backport bpo-33329 fix to 3.4 and 3.5
In-Reply-To: <CA+LW3i3jX06H5XbPSnFxcLmL+fQX9Z9yFPMUjhrceR6cKcceSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eca9d6f2-14a3-0a17-2730-8d74cbb8fa84@hastings.org>
 <CA+LW3i3jX06H5XbPSnFxcLmL+fQX9Z9yFPMUjhrceR6cKcceSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3d30f424-b3e2-346d-8f15-c77282c9d01a@hastings.org>

On 3/4/19 2:29 AM, Joni Orponen wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 7:08 AM Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org 
> <mailto:larry at hastings.org>> wrote:
>
>     This bug in bpo-33329:
>
>         https://bugs.python.org/issue33329
>
>
> This is also potentially affecting PGO builds of 2.7 on Debian Buster 
> with GCC. Somehow building with Clang is fine.
>
> Does the configure time choice of compiler make a difference here for 
> 3.4 and 3.5?


I don't know.? I only build with the default compiler on my machine, 
gcc.? (My machine is Linux, 64-bit.)? It'd be swell if you tried the RCs 
with clang!


//arry/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190309/bb566611/attachment.html>

From steve at pearwood.info  Mon Mar 11 06:36:06 2019
From: steve at pearwood.info (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 21:36:06 +1100
Subject: [python-committers] 2019 Steering Council Election Results
In-Reply-To: <etPan.5c812e22.69917e45.fafc@python.org>
References: <etPan.5c582bf5.152d90c4.470@python.org>
 <etPan.5c812e22.69917e45.fafc@python.org>
Message-ID: <20190311103606.GM12502@ando.pearwood.info>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 09:43:46AM -0500, Ernest W. Durbin III wrote:

[...]
> Eligible voters have received result notification emails from helios, 
> and may return to the system to audit/verify the results.

For curiosity sake, I'd like to do this. I did get an email from Helios 
linking to my ballot, but I don't know how to interpret the results:

cast in 2019 Python Steering Committee Election
Fingerprint: xxxxxxxxxx

Clicking "Details" displays an enormous but cryptic nested dict:

{"answers": [{"choices": [{"alpha": "xxx...xxx", "beta": "xxx...xxx"}, 
{"alpha": "xxx...xxx", "beta": "xxx...xxx"}, ...

How do we use this to verify the results?

Thanks in advance.


-- 
Steven

From mariatta at python.org  Tue Mar 12 12:16:54 2019
From: mariatta at python.org (Mariatta)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:16:54 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Reminder: Python Language Summit 2019 Signup
Message-ID: <CAGbohnatBAWwkACnbcAC7ft0stLNtgHunyJZSdGwLwXrjmCQkg@mail.gmail.com>

Just another reminder that sign up is still open for Python Language Summit
(until March 21st, 2019)

TL;DR:

When: Wednesday, May 1, 2019, 10am?4pm
Where: Huntington Convention Center, Cleveland, Ohio
Apply: Attendance sign up form <https://goo.gl/forms/pexfOGDjpV0BWMer2> (before
March 21, 2019)
Speak: Topic submission form <https://goo.gl/forms/8l7ITEKOjlWkBjcl1> (before
March 21, 2019)
You will be notified by April 15, 2019
Co-chairs: and ?ukasz
Blogger: A. Jesse Jiryu Davis

All language summit attendees are also invited for dinner with PyCon staff
and volunteers right after the summit. Details will be forwarded once we
confirm your attendance. Since I don't want to miss the dinner, we will be
more strict with timing and not go overtime.

So far, we have a number of interesting topics proposed by core developers
as well as by members of the wider Python community. Some of the proposed
topic are: PEP 581, async REPL, Python 3.9 release cadence, core Python
mentorship, manylinux, etc.

If you have any questions, the Users section of our Discourse
instance (https://discuss.python.org/c/users) is the best place to ask.
For private communication, write to mariatta at python.org and/or
lukasz at python.org.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190312/9d2df50a/attachment.html>

From nad at python.org  Tue Mar 12 19:28:52 2019
From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 19:28:52 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.7.3rc1 is now available for
 testing.
Message-ID: <DC43F0EE-3377-45B4-B84B-056807BDA332@python.org>

Python 3.7.3rc1 is now available for testing. 3.7.3rc1 is the release
preview of the next maintenance release of Python 3.7, the latest
feature release of Python. Assuming no critical problems are found
prior to 2019-03-25, no code changes are planned between now and the
final release. This release candidate is intended to give you the
opportunity to test the new security and bug fixes in 3.7.3. We
strongly encourage you to test your projects and report issues found
to bugs.python.org as soon as possible. Please keep in mind that this
is a preview release and, thus, its use is not recommended for
production environments.

You can find the release files, a link to the changelog, and more
information here:
    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-373rc1/

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at python.org -- []


From larry at hastings.org  Mon Mar 18 16:38:41 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 13:38:41 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Python 3.5.7 is now available
Message-ID: <d3a2addd-46f6-eff9-cc0e-c53acc990faf@hastings.org>


On behalf of the Python development community, I'm chuffed to announce 
the availability of Python 3.5.7.

Python 3.5 is in "security fixes only" mode.? It only accepts security 
fixes, not conventional bug fixes, and the release is source-only.

And you can find Python 3.5.7rc1 here:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-357/


Best wishes,



//arry/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190318/4101ad26/attachment.html>

From larry at hastings.org  Mon Mar 18 16:42:31 2019
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 13:42:31 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Python 3.4.10 is now available
Message-ID: <c062a27c-3be9-58de-b7cd-4a706f736433@hastings.org>


On behalf of the Python development community, I'm proud--if slightly 
sad--to announce the availability of Python 3.4.10.

Python 3.4.10 was released in "security fixes only" mode.? It only 
contains security fixes, not conventional bug fixes, and it is a 
source-only release.

Python 3.4.10 is the final release in the Python 3.4 series. As of this 
release, the 3.4 branch has been retired, no further changes to 3.4 will 
be accepted, and no new releases will be made.? This is standard Python 
policy; Python releases get five years of support and are then retired.

If you're still using Python 3.4, you should consider upgrading to the 
current version--3.7.2 as of this writing.? Newer versions of Python
have many new features, performance improvements, and bug fixes, which 
should all serve to enhance your Python programming experience.

We in the Python core development community thank you for your interest 
in 3.4, and we wish you all the best!


You can find Python 3.4.10 here:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3410/


One I completely finish the Python 3.4.10 release process, I will retire 
as Python 3.4 Release Manager.? I'll still be Python 3.5 Release Manager 
for another eighteen months or so.


Python 3.4 is OVER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA



//arry/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190318/64974083/attachment.html>

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 11:34:38 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 16:34:38 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team

Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.

St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
features:

* -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
   to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
* --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options] file"

(Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))

In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
that, sorry for being emotional :-))

He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
by St?phane Wirtel").

He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
June 2016 for that: "St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
spreading the PSF's mission."
https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016

He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
or being a volunteer on-site.

He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
(France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
workflow and Pull Requests.

He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).

He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)

St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
promotion as well ;-)

Links:

* https://wirtel.be/
* https://twitter.com/matrixise

Julien and Victor

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 11:40:09 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 16:40:09 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>

Oh. I forgot to mention that I offer to mentor St?phane once he would
become a core dev for 1 month for help him to deal with his new
responsibilities. I would require him to ask me before merging any PR
during the mentoring.

Victor

Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 16:34, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a ?crit :
>
> Hi,
>
> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
>
> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.
>
> St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
> various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
> features:
>
> * -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
>    to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
> * --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options] file"
>
> (Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
> DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))
>
> In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
> any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
> the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
> rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
> that, sorry for being emotional :-))
>
> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
> by St?phane Wirtel").
>
> He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
> 80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
> June 2016 for that: "St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
> User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
> material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
> spreading the PSF's mission."
> https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016
>
> He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
> or being a volunteer on-site.
>
> He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
> (France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
> Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
> about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
> workflow and Pull Requests.
>
> He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
> For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).
>
> He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
> changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
> right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
> provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
> says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
> for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)
>
> St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
> have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
> myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
> his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
> promotion as well ;-)
>
> Links:
>
> * https://wirtel.be/
> * https://twitter.com/matrixise
>
> Julien and Victor



-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From julien at palard.fr  Fri Mar 22 11:56:41 2019
From: julien at palard.fr (Julien Palard)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 15:56:41 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <kPdPSrJY5V9WTVWHGHXw1ODodQZPne5l7ASzr9RCyc--OaWKY80fVwGXj6qrebHHrzCZFPBQi3HJZyycn_uT4aWaLh1IKhLA-HqfW1E3FN0=@palard.fr>

> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
> core developer.

It's probably obvious, but still: +1!

I've met St?phane multiple times at Python related events, worked with him on various occasions, and everytime it's a pleasure!

--?
Julien Palard
https://mdk.fr


From mal at egenix.com  Fri Mar 22 12:33:06 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 17:33:06 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>

+1 (not exactly sure how the vote would work, so at this point just
an indication of support)

On 22.03.2019 16:40, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Oh. I forgot to mention that I offer to mentor St?phane once he would
> become a core dev for 1 month for help him to deal with his new
> responsibilities. I would require him to ask me before merging any PR
> during the mentoring.
> 
> Victor
> 
> Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 16:34, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a ?crit :
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
>> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
>> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
>> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
>>
>> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.
>>
>> St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
>> various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
>> features:
>>
>> * -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
>>    to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
>> * --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options] file"
>>
>> (Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
>> DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))
>>
>> In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
>> any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
>> the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
>> rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
>> that, sorry for being emotional :-))
>>
>> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
>> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
>> by St?phane Wirtel").
>>
>> He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
>> 80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
>> June 2016 for that: "St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
>> User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
>> material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
>> spreading the PSF's mission."
>> https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016
>>
>> He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
>> or being a volunteer on-site.
>>
>> He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
>> (France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
>> Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
>> about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
>> workflow and Pull Requests.
>>
>> He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
>> For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).
>>
>> He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
>> changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
>> right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
>> provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
>> says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
>> for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)
>>
>> St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
>> have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
>> myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
>> his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
>> promotion as well ;-)
>>
>> Links:
>>
>> * https://wirtel.be/
>> * https://twitter.com/matrixise
>>
>> Julien and Victor
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 22 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From steve.dower at python.org  Fri Mar 22 12:38:47 2019
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:38:47 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59da6f97-026c-a218-2f68-bbcc0aecc669@python.org>

On 22Mar2019 0834, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.

I certainly have, a number of times. He's always seemed very willing to 
discuss ideas and his point of view on design issues, and it will be 
nice to finish some of those discussions by letting him complete his own 
work.

+1 from me.

Cheers,
Steve

From brett at python.org  Fri Mar 22 13:01:24 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 10:01:24 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 9:33 AM M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:

> +1 (not exactly sure how the vote would work, so at this point just
> an indication of support)
>

I've started a discussion with the council to see how we may want to handle
it.

-Brett


>
> On 22.03.2019 16:40, Victor Stinner wrote:
> > Oh. I forgot to mention that I offer to mentor St?phane once he would
> > become a core dev for 1 month for help him to deal with his new
> > responsibilities. I would require him to ask me before merging any PR
> > during the mentoring.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> > Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 16:34, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a
> ?crit :
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
> >> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
> >> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
> >> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
> >> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
> >>
> >> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.
> >>
> >> St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
> >> various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
> >> features:
> >>
> >> * -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
> >>    to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
> >> * --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options]
> file"
> >>
> >> (Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
> >> DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))
> >>
> >> In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
> >> any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
> >> the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
> >> rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
> >> that, sorry for being emotional :-))
> >>
> >> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
> >> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
> >> by St?phane Wirtel").
> >>
> >> He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
> >> 80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
> >> June 2016 for that: "St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
> >> User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
> >> material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
> >> spreading the PSF's mission."
> >> https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016
> >>
> >> He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
> >> or being a volunteer on-site.
> >>
> >> He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
> >> (France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
> >> Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
> >> about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
> >> workflow and Pull Requests.
> >>
> >> He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
> >> For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).
> >>
> >> He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
> >> changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
> >> right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
> >> provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
> >> says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
> >> for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)
> >>
> >> St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
> >> have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
> >> myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
> >> his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
> >> promotion as well ;-)
> >>
> >> Links:
> >>
> >> * https://wirtel.be/
> >> * https://twitter.com/matrixise
> >>
> >> Julien and Victor
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com
>
> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 22 2019)
> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
> >>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
> >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
>
>    eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
>     D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>            Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>                http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
>                       http://www.malemburg.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190322/c2406a59/attachment-0001.html>

From brett at python.org  Fri Mar 22 14:45:05 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 11:45:05 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>

We discussed this and we think an anonymous vote on discuss.python.org is
probably best for this sort of thing.

Victor, did you want to do the poll or would you prefer I set it up?

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 10:01 AM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 9:33 AM M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 (not exactly sure how the vote would work, so at this point just
>> an indication of support)
>>
>
> I've started a discussion with the council to see how we may want to
> handle it.
>
> -Brett
>
>
>>
>> On 22.03.2019 16:40, Victor Stinner wrote:
>> > Oh. I forgot to mention that I offer to mentor St?phane once he would
>> > become a core dev for 1 month for help him to deal with his new
>> > responsibilities. I would require him to ask me before merging any PR
>> > during the mentoring.
>> >
>> > Victor
>> >
>> > Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 16:34, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a
>> ?crit :
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
>> >> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
>> >> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
>> >> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
>> >> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
>> >>
>> >> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.
>> >>
>> >> St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
>> >> various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
>> >> features:
>> >>
>> >> * -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
>> >>    to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
>> >> * --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options]
>> file"
>> >>
>> >> (Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
>> >> DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))
>> >>
>> >> In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
>> >> any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
>> >> the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
>> >> rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
>> >> that, sorry for being emotional :-))
>> >>
>> >> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
>> >> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
>> >> by St?phane Wirtel").
>> >>
>> >> He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
>> >> 80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
>> >> June 2016 for that: "St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
>> >> User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
>> >> material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
>> >> spreading the PSF's mission."
>> >> https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016
>> >>
>> >> He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
>> >> or being a volunteer on-site.
>> >>
>> >> He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
>> >> (France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
>> >> Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
>> >> about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
>> >> workflow and Pull Requests.
>> >>
>> >> He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
>> >> For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).
>> >>
>> >> He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
>> >> changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
>> >> right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
>> >> provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
>> >> says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
>> >> for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)
>> >>
>> >> St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
>> >> have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
>> >> myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
>> >> his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
>> >> promotion as well ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Links:
>> >>
>> >> * https://wirtel.be/
>> >> * https://twitter.com/matrixise
>> >>
>> >> Julien and Victor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> eGenix.com
>>
>> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 22 2019)
>> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>> >>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>> >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
>>
>>    eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
>>     D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>            Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>>                http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
>>                       http://www.malemburg.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190322/b9e93d3a/attachment.html>

From guido at python.org  Fri Mar 22 15:13:20 2019
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:13:20 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7+vJ+FE+GXbd1rJFt457xfC-_J-VQ9tYe2PNCnQKC0z9VymA@mail.gmail.com>

Note that it would have to be in the Committers topic.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 11:45 AM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:

> We discussed this and we think an anonymous vote on discuss.python.org is
> probably best for this sort of thing.
>
> Victor, did you want to do the poll or would you prefer I set it up?
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 10:01 AM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 9:33 AM M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 (not exactly sure how the vote would work, so at this point just
>>> an indication of support)
>>>
>>
>> I've started a discussion with the council to see how we may want to
>> handle it.
>>
>> -Brett
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2019 16:40, Victor Stinner wrote:
>>> > Oh. I forgot to mention that I offer to mentor St?phane once he would
>>> > become a core dev for 1 month for help him to deal with his new
>>> > responsibilities. I would require him to ask me before merging any PR
>>> > during the mentoring.
>>> >
>>> > Victor
>>> >
>>> > Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 16:34, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a
>>> ?crit :
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
>>> >> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
>>> >> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
>>> >> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
>>> >> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
>>> >>
>>> >> Some of you already met him at Pycon US or EuroPython.
>>> >>
>>> >> St?phane is contributing to Python since 2014. He fixed bugs in
>>> >> various parts of the code, but also implemented some nice
>>> >> features:
>>> >>
>>> >> * -d option of "python3 -m http.server -d DIRECTORY"
>>> >>    to serve a specific directory using Python builtin HTTP Server
>>> >> * --fast and --best options on gzip CLI: "python3 -m gzip [options]
>>> file"
>>> >>
>>> >> (Julien told me that he frequently uses "python3 -m http.server -d
>>> >> DIRECTORY" to read the Python documentation :-))
>>> >>
>>> >> In my experience, St?phane *likes* getting review and is fine to make
>>> >> any change on his code. It's not an issue to work with him, it's more
>>> >> the opposite :-) For example, it doesn't get mad if one of his PR is
>>> >> rejected ;-) (I'm saying that because *I* sometimes get mad about
>>> >> that, sorry for being emotional :-))
>>> >>
>>> >> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
>>> >> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
>>> >> by St?phane Wirtel").
>>> >>
>>> >> He organized a Python conference at FOSDEM 5 times in a row (between
>>> >> 80 and 800 persons per year) and got a PSF Community Service Awards in
>>> >> June 2016 for that: "St?phane Wirtel for his work organizing a Python
>>> >> User Group in Belgium, for his continued work creating marketing
>>> >> material for the PSF, for his continued outreach efforts with
>>> >> spreading the PSF's mission."
>>> >> https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#june-2016
>>> >>
>>> >> He is also helping to organize EuroPython, by working on the website
>>> >> or being a volunteer on-site.
>>> >>
>>> >> He gave a lot of Python talks all around the world at many Pycon
>>> >> (France, EuroPython, Canda, Italy, Ireland, UK, San Sebasti?n,
>>> >> Slovakia, Ukraine) and at FOSDEM (Belgium). For example, he gave talks
>>> >> about Python internals (bytecode, parser), and on Python development
>>> >> workflow and Pull Requests.
>>> >>
>>> >> He is always volunteer to help the Python project, not only the code.
>>> >> For example, he is a committer on the developer guide (devguide).
>>> >>
>>> >> He is helping other contributors get their bugs fixed or to get their
>>> >> changes merged. He participated to not less than 218 PR: ping the
>>> >> right core dev who can review/help, test manually to validate and
>>> >> provide good feedback, propose enhancements, etc. Sometimes, he just
>>> >> says "Thank you for your contribution" which is IMHO a good practice
>>> >> for a healthy community :-) (we don't do that often enough!)
>>> >>
>>> >> St?phane is involved in Python for 5 years. To be honest, he should
>>> >> have been promoted earlier, but I (Victor) wasn't sure to promote him
>>> >> myself because I know him too well, and so I wasn't objective about
>>> >> his work. But well, now it's time, and Julien is supporting his
>>> >> promotion as well ;-)
>>> >>
>>> >> Links:
>>> >>
>>> >> * https://wirtel.be/
>>> >> * https://twitter.com/matrixise
>>> >>
>>> >> Julien and Victor
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>> eGenix.com
>>>
>>> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 22 2019)
>>> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> >>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
>>>
>>>    eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Pastor-Loeh-Str.48+%0D%0A%C2%A0+%C2%A0+D-40764+Langenfeld,+Germany&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>     D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Pastor-Loeh-Str.48+%0D%0A%C2%A0+%C2%A0+D-40764+Langenfeld,+Germany&entry=gmail&source=g>.
>>> CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>            Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>>>                http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
>>>                       http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> python-committers mailing list
>>> python-committers at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190322/3a15fca1/attachment-0001.html>

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 16:56:35 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 21:56:35 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 19:45, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> a ?crit :
> We discussed this and we think an anonymous vote on discuss.python.org is probably best for this sort of thing.
>
> Victor, did you want to do the poll or would you prefer I set it up?

Sure, done:
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stephane-wirtel-as-a-core-dev/1044

Julien, Steve, Marc: Please vote again there.

I would suggest everybody to add a short message to "explain" their vote.

For the poll, I chose:

* Type: Single Choice
* Results: Always visible (the 2 other choices are: "When closed" and "On vote")
* Choice 1: Promote St?phane Wirtel
* Choice 2: Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
* [ ] Show who voted (unchecked = anonymous)
* [ ] Automatically close poll (unchecked = I will close manually the
poll early April 1st)

I got:
---
[poll type=regular results=always]
* Promote St?phane Wirtel
* Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
[/poll]
---

I can modify the poll if needed.

Maybe Choices could be labelled differently, but I had no better idea, sorry :-)

Victor

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 17:14:22 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:14:22 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 21:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a ?crit :
> For the poll, I chose:
>
> * Type: Single Choice
> * Results: Always visible (the 2 other choices are: "When closed" and "On vote")
> * Choice 1: Promote St?phane Wirtel
> * Choice 2: Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
> * [ ] Show who voted (unchecked = anonymous)
> * [ ] Automatically close poll (unchecked = I will close manually the
> poll early April 1st)

FYI technically, it's possible to change your vote while the vote is
still open. I tested to see if it's possible: yes it is :-)

Do voters have to justify their vote? Or is each voter free to justify
or not their vote? (add a message)

Victor

From brett at python.org  Fri Mar 22 17:42:04 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 14:42:04 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 2:14 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 21:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a
> ?crit :
> > For the poll, I chose:
> >
> > * Type: Single Choice
> > * Results: Always visible (the 2 other choices are: "When closed" and
> "On vote")
> > * Choice 1: Promote St?phane Wirtel
> > * Choice 2: Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
> > * [ ] Show who voted (unchecked = anonymous)
> > * [ ] Automatically close poll (unchecked = I will close manually the
> > poll early April 1st)
>
> FYI technically, it's possible to change your vote while the vote is
> still open. I tested to see if it's possible: yes it is :-)
>
> Do voters have to justify their vote? Or is each voter free to justify
> or not their vote? (add a message)
>

I don't think people have to justify their vote. We don't ask that of
anyone else in any other votes that we hold.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190322/5c5b18f8/attachment.html>

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 22 18:07:32 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 18:07:32 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5f02f698-4c5c-3180-ea7f-fa784a843748@udel.edu>

On 3/22/2019 11:34 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:

> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
> core developer.

+1
Thank you for the nice review of his work, so I know him better.

> He got 57 commits merged into the master branch of Python: authored 46
> commits + co-authored 1 commit + 10 commits before Git ("Patch written
> by St?phane Wirtel").

I think we should start looking at someone at about 20 PRs merged.
By allowing contributors to potentially prepare a merge-ready PR, the 
current workflow makes it easier than the previous one did to see how 
ready a person is.  (For those not familiar with the old process, single 
news files meant that the committer had to prepare the final patch at 
the last minute, and modify many backports.)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Mar 22 18:21:24 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 18:21:24 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fdcbde7-2154-8c3d-9836-97336bdc5523@udel.edu>

On 3/22/2019 4:56 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 19:45, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> a ?crit :
>> We discussed this and we think an anonymous vote on discuss.python.org is probably best for this sort of thing.

I agree.  Auto vote counting, with possibility of changing one's vote 
from discussion, which gets preserved on one page.

>> Victor, did you want to do the poll or would you prefer I set it up?
> 
> Sure, done:
> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stephane-wirtel-as-a-core-dev/1044

Do votes automatically get posted here, or does creator have to remember 
to do so?


From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 19:06:59 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:06:59 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <9fdcbde7-2154-8c3d-9836-97336bdc5523@udel.edu>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <9fdcbde7-2154-8c3d-9836-97336bdc5523@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFDYtE_bpcEvBmb8_z5jXoQQGNuXXjnkQgNd4wy6mfEtg@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 23:21, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> a ?crit :
> > Sure, done:
> > https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stephane-wirtel-as-a-core-dev/1044
>
> Do votes automatically get posted here, or does creator have to remember
> to do so?

Now, please only use the poll on discuss.python.org to vote. This
thread is now deprecated... or pending deprecated, I'm now confused
;-)

I cannot add votes made on the mailing list to the discuss.python.org
poll. For the few who already voted in this thread, you have to vote
again in the poll.

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From antoine at python.org  Fri Mar 22 19:10:37 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:10:37 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bbed8a4c-5863-ab02-9b72-360d27af829f@python.org>


Le 22/03/2019 ? 22:42, Brett Cannon a ?crit?:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 2:14 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com
> <mailto:vstinner at redhat.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 21:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com
>     <mailto:vstinner at redhat.com>> a ?crit :
>     > For the poll, I chose:
>     >
>     > * Type: Single Choice
>     > * Results: Always visible (the 2 other choices are: "When closed"
>     and "On vote")
>     > * Choice 1: Promote St?phane Wirtel
>     > * Choice 2: Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
>     > * [ ] Show who voted (unchecked = anonymous)
>     > * [ ] Automatically close poll (unchecked = I will close manually the
>     > poll early April 1st)
> 
>     FYI technically, it's possible to change your vote while the vote is
>     still open. I tested to see if it's possible: yes it is :-)
> 
>     Do voters have to justify their vote? Or is each voter free to justify
>     or not their vote? (add a message)
> 
> I don't think people have to justify their vote. We don't ask that of
> anyone else in any other votes that we hold.

I agree they don't have to, but it would nevertheless be helpful if they
did.

Especially if their vote is negative, since that would help guide
St?phane and his supporters towards a more successful outcome on their
next attempt.

(there are three negative votes right now, but we don't know the reasons)

As for myself, I don't plan to vote, since I haven't interacted enough
with St?phane to have an opinion.

Regards

Antoine.

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 19:17:00 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:17:00 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGEOspqCPM9F7+raXwNcnRehHZXnjNUfhMJmtBUBOQoO1g@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 22:42, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> a ?crit :
> I don't think people have to justify their vote. We don't ask that of anyone else in any other votes that we hold.

Ok, I'm fine with that.

I wanted to ask explicitly, since votes on python-committers mailing
required to post a change. It's a change compared to old way to vote.

--

By the way, is the Steering Committee ok with the proposed duration
for the vote (we proposed 1 week)? I'm asking because the duration was
never really discussed... In the past, sometimes Guido closed
immediately a vote by saying "ok, we got enough +1, <candidate> is
promoted", the duration of the vote wasn't announced in advance.

I like to announce a deadline so people can take their time before
voting, if they want, to see the trend. The ones who missed the
deadline cannot complain since it has been announced from the start
;-)

Maybe it's better to let the Steering Committee close the vote.
Honestly, I'm not sure of what is the best :-D

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From antoine at python.org  Fri Mar 22 19:18:46 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:18:46 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGEOspqCPM9F7+raXwNcnRehHZXnjNUfhMJmtBUBOQoO1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEOspqCPM9F7+raXwNcnRehHZXnjNUfhMJmtBUBOQoO1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0c8227ae-02e4-67ea-2773-da2387d3f4d9@python.org>


Le 23/03/2019 ? 00:17, Victor Stinner a ?crit?:
> Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 22:42, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> a ?crit :
>> I don't think people have to justify their vote. We don't ask that of anyone else in any other votes that we hold.
> 
> Ok, I'm fine with that.
> 
> I wanted to ask explicitly, since votes on python-committers mailing
> required to post a change. It's a change compared to old way to vote.
> 
> --
> 
> By the way, is the Steering Committee ok with the proposed duration
> for the vote (we proposed 1 week)? I'm asking because the duration was
> never really discussed... In the past, sometimes Guido closed
> immediately a vote by saying "ok, we got enough +1, <candidate> is
> promoted", the duration of the vote wasn't announced in advance.
> 
> I like to announce a deadline so people can take their time before
> voting, if they want, to see the trend. The ones who missed the
> deadline cannot complain since it has been announced from the start
> ;-)

Votes should certainly have a predefined deadline IMO.

Regards

Antoine.

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 19:23:49 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:23:49 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGH6xgAAYxigAE5Gjh59x_z7VhWid1KG1NcXrFBpwidW_A@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 21:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a ?crit :
> For the poll, I chose:
>
> * Type: Single Choice
> * Results: Always visible (the 2 other choices are: "When closed" and "On vote")
> * Choice 1: Promote St?phane Wirtel
> * Choice 2: Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
> * [ ] Show who voted (unchecked = anonymous)
> * [ ] Automatically close poll (unchecked = I will close manually the
> poll early April 1st)

Sorry, I'm not used to Discourse and another question came to my mind...

Does someone know if voters will remain anonymous when the vote ends?
If it's not the case, voters should be warning before they vote.

Victor

From vstinner at redhat.com  Fri Mar 22 19:50:36 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:50:36 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGH6xgAAYxigAE5Gjh59x_z7VhWid1KG1NcXrFBpwidW_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH6xgAAYxigAE5Gjh59x_z7VhWid1KG1NcXrFBpwidW_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFdAM35D4++=b77kp+ymvjGja_u_tUsO3J+7G2cUM8a6g@mail.gmail.com>

Le sam. 23 mars 2019 ? 00:23, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a ?crit :
> Sorry, I'm not used to Discourse and another question came to my mind...
>
> Does someone know if voters will remain anonymous when the vote ends?
> If it's not the case, voters should be warning before they vote.

Sub-question: do Discourse admins see who voted what? It seems like
they don't. I prefer to be fully transparent from the start :-)

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From pablogsal at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 23:07:08 2019
From: pablogsal at gmail.com (Pablo Galindo Salgado)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:07:08 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGH6xgAAYxigAE5Gjh59x_z7VhWid1KG1NcXrFBpwidW_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH6xgAAYxigAE5Gjh59x_z7VhWid1KG1NcXrFBpwidW_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjbc8FF=iC2Uwmhk0x6yHR7neGRL=rJgxNunHkfVd1-Nbnw8g@mail.gmail.com>

>Does someone know if voters will remain anonymous when the vote ends?
> If it's not the case, voters should be warning before they vote.

Voters remain anonymous when the vote ends. You can check it in this
anonymous
closed poll that we made previously:

https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-rename-committer-to-core-developer/41/6?u=pablogsal

>Sub-question: do Discourse admins see who voted what? It seems like
> they don't. I prefer to be fully transparent from the start :-)

Admins do not have any special privilege regarding polls. Anonymous polls
remain
anonymous for everyone. Polls also cannot be changed after creation, even
by admins
(so the options in the poll and the parameters that were used to create the
poll are immutable).

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 23:24, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 21:56, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> a
> ?crit :
> > For the poll, I chose:
> >
> > * Type: Single Choice
> > * Results: Always visible (the 2 other choices are: "When closed" and
> "On vote")
> > * Choice 1: Promote St?phane Wirtel
> > * Choice 2: Don't promote St?phane Wirtel
> > * [ ] Show who voted (unchecked = anonymous)
> > * [ ] Automatically close poll (unchecked = I will close manually the
> > poll early April 1st)
>
> Sorry, I'm not used to Discourse and another question came to my mind...
>
> Does someone know if voters will remain anonymous when the vote ends?
> If it's not the case, voters should be warning before they vote.
>
> Victor
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190323/71e7c50a/attachment.html>

From brett at python.org  Sat Mar 23 18:58:39 2019
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 15:58:39 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGEOspqCPM9F7+raXwNcnRehHZXnjNUfhMJmtBUBOQoO1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGGdWgbvaU8SpuzSA+_k-f+sK21H4q70tA2NL+KPV1bf2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGH3FHVkQ3Gf2kgB++eDLydHdLtZopRn1uz-Fxrt0Md6nQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W4wVtVAuHFRMSUTLBEKceDSxc6JjamKzr-ne-Ng3fx4qQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGEOspqCPM9F7+raXwNcnRehHZXnjNUfhMJmtBUBOQoO1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1=2W74TuwxtVGpwJm913nYMHzzF3ToD9NacRLk6LXBmW8BTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:17 PM Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:

> Le ven. 22 mars 2019 ? 22:42, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> a ?crit :
> > I don't think people have to justify their vote. We don't ask that of
> anyone else in any other votes that we hold.
>
> Ok, I'm fine with that.
>
> I wanted to ask explicitly, since votes on python-committers mailing
> required to post a change. It's a change compared to old way to vote.
>
> --
>
> By the way, is the Steering Committee ok with the proposed duration
> for the vote (we proposed 1 week)?


I'm personally fine with it, but we haven't formally discussed this. But I
doubt anyone else on the council will care so just assume a week is fine.
:) There's no need to rush a resolution but there's also no need to drag it
out either, and a week guarantees at least one weekend for those that only
check their open source emails once a week.


> I'm asking because the duration was
> never really discussed... In the past, sometimes Guido closed
> immediately a vote by saying "ok, we got enough +1, <candidate> is
> promoted", the duration of the vote wasn't announced in advance.
>

It's unfortunately a deficiency in PEP 13 as it's not specified in
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#membership . It's probably
something we should fix in PEP 13 by following
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#changing-this-document but which
also lacks a time frame for votes. :)


>
> I like to announce a deadline so people can take their time before
> voting, if they want, to see the trend. The ones who missed the
> deadline cannot complain since it has been announced from the start
> ;-)
>

Go with a week since the poll opened on discuss.python.org.


>
> Maybe it's better to let the Steering Committee close the vote.
> Honestly, I'm not sure of what is the best :-D
>

No one does. :) We're all trying to figure this out as a group as we adjust
to our new governance situation.

-Brett


>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190323/2ca857e7/attachment.html>

From g.rodola at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 10:51:46 2019
From: g.rodola at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 15:51:46 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 7:45 PM Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
>
> We discussed this and we think an anonymous vote on discuss.python.org is probably best for this sort of thing.
>
> Victor, did you want to do the poll or would you prefer I set it up?

(just my 2 cents unrelated from this specific nomination per se)
I agree that when voting for *people* (core-devs, Steering Council
members, etc.) the vote should be private because it leads to a more
neutral and honest outcome. Publicly voting "no" has a higher cost
both for the voter and the candidate: voters may be tempted to vote
"yes" or abstain just to not look bad or cause antipathy. Anonymous
preference is a way to exclude the human factor and promote quality.
That's how it's done in real life and has been done for the Steering
Council elections, so I think we should do the same for core-dev
nominations, and possibly also incarnate this in a PEP. It would be
nice if such a PEP would encourage the person who proposes the
nomination to provide a detailed description of the candidate (links
to main past contributions, candidate's areas of interest, GIT
statistics, etc.), so that the voters can express a better preference.
On the other hand, I think votes for technical decisions (if any) are
better if kept public, and possibly always accompained by a reason
(otherwise abstention is better).

---
Giampaolo - http://grodola.blogspot.com

From storchaka at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 12:14:10 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:14:10 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
Message-ID: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>

I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and 
GitHub) as a core developer. Perhaps not one from us is surprised that 
he is not yet a core developer. Stefan is a core developer of Cython and 
lxml, two important projects in Python ecosystem. He is a coauthor of 
PEP 489. His first patch is dated by 2010. He is not so active as other 
candidates in writing patches (I have counted less than 20 of his 
commits), but he is active on the bug tracker and mailing lists 
(reported 95 issues and commented much more). His expertise in 
XML-related issues was very important. He is assigned as an expert for 
the xml.etree package.

Maybe you can add more about Stefan's merits. This is just what I know 
personally. I worked a much with him and have very good impression about 
him.

Ah, and the PSF also just granted him their quarterly community service 
award for
2019-Q1. https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#march-2019


From storchaka at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 12:19:53 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:19:53 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85f88845-39a2-7956-6e6b-6eaa7911ee55@gmail.com>

Opened an anonymous vote on 
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stefan-behnel-as-a-core-developer/1054 
. But if you have concerns or objections, it is better to express them 
publicly or in private to me.

From antoine at python.org  Sun Mar 24 12:40:44 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 17:40:44 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8a9cd2b-c080-de2d-288e-7ce967f2e45d@python.org>


Le 24/03/2019 ? 17:14, Serhiy Storchaka a ?crit?:
> I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and 
> GitHub) as a core developer. Perhaps not one from us is surprised that 
> he is not yet a core developer. Stefan is a core developer of Cython and 
> lxml, two important projects in Python ecosystem. He is a coauthor of 
> PEP 489. His first patch is dated by 2010. He is not so active as other 
> candidates in writing patches (I have counted less than 20 of his 
> commits), but he is active on the bug tracker and mailing lists 
> (reported 95 issues and commented much more). His expertise in 
> XML-related issues was very important. He is assigned as an expert for 
> the xml.etree package.

I don't know.  If he's not very active in writing or reviewing PRs, then
perhaps he doesn't _need_ core developer rights.

I have a lot of respect for Stefan's experience, and his involvement
especially in Cython development (where he's generally eager to solve
bugs and other issues).  But there are other people for whose experience
I have a lot of respect for, yet don't think important to give CPython
core developer rights to.

Regards

Antoine.

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 24 14:27:08 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 14:27:08 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0b84251-e639-2748-4ea7-5b50ef31b83a@udel.edu>

On 3/24/2019 12:14 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and 
> GitHub) as a core developer.

Have you asked Stefan if he would like the privilege, accept it, and 
would at least occasionally use it?

> Perhaps not one from us is surprised that 
> he is not yet a core developer.

I'm not.  While it might benefit us if he were more active with the 
core, I presume that he has chosen to remain focused on Cython and lxml 
and has never asked to become one.  Hence my question above.

> Stefan is a core developer of Cython and 
> lxml, two important projects in Python ecosystem. He is a coauthor of 
> PEP 489. His first patch is dated by 2010. He is not so active as other 
> candidates in writing patches (I have counted less than 20 of his 
> commits), but he is active on the bug tracker and mailing lists 
> (reported 95 issues and commented much more). His expertise in 
> XML-related issues was very important. He is assigned as an expert for 
> the xml.etree package.

In other words, he has been more active with the core than most other 
'ecosystem' developers and thus seems like a better candidate than most 
to join the core, even if his main focus remains on cython and lxml.

> Maybe you can add more about Stefan's merits. This is just what I know 
> personally. I worked a much with him and have very good impression about 
> him.

So do I from what I have read of his posts.

> Ah, and the PSF also just granted him their quarterly community service 
> award for
> 2019-Q1. https://www.python.org/community/awards/psf-awards/#march-2019



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Mar 24 16:16:49 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:16:49 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5eddadbd-ea1c-2ccf-a2a4-09005e1a1239@udel.edu>

I am forwarding this response by Stefan to my previous response since he 
cannot post directly.  [I cannot thread this properly because I have not 
yet received a copy of what I sent, as sometimes happens on this list.)
---

Hi Terry!

(python-committers is a closed list, so I'm replying directly)

Terry Reedy schrieb am 24.03.19 um 19:27:
 > On 3/24/2019 12:14 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
 >> I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and
 >> GitHub) as a core developer.
 >
 > Have you asked Stefan if he would like the privilege, accept it, and
 > would at least occasionally use it?

Yes, we discussed it. I would be happy to receive the privilege, and
"occasionally" use it.

 > In other words, he has been more active with the core than most other
 > 'ecosystem' developers and thus seems like a better candidate than most
 > to join the core, even if his main focus remains on cython and lxml.

Thanks! Yes, that sums it up quite well, I think.

Stefan

From vstinner at redhat.com  Sun Mar 24 17:12:32 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:12:32 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <b8a9cd2b-c080-de2d-288e-7ce967f2e45d@python.org>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <b8a9cd2b-c080-de2d-288e-7ce967f2e45d@python.org>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGFEh3tY+kAYdms0FHb0geuo7zJpiaFMg86tBjAjQd4T-A@mail.gmail.com>

Le dim. 24 mars 2019 ? 17:40, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> a ?crit :
> I don't know.  If he's not very active in writing or reviewing PRs, then
> perhaps he doesn't _need_ core developer rights.

IMHO it's wrong to restrict the group of code developers to developers
who only produce codes. CPython is way more than code. You need the
infra, you need to tooling around CPython, you need the CI, etc.
Without these things, the code is way less atractive. It's like trying
to separate the code and the documentation, both strick together and
the two are important. We need more diversity in general ;-)

The PEP 13 defines who deserves to become a core developer:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#membership

Extract:

* Managing the continuous integration infrastructure
* Managing the servers (website, tracker, documentation, etc.)
* Maintaining related projects (alternative interpreters, core
infrastructure like packaging, etc.)
* Creating visual designs

Technically, I don't think that any of these 3 "roles" require the
"commit bit" (merge a PR).

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From antoine at python.org  Sun Mar 24 17:17:03 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:17:03 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGFEh3tY+kAYdms0FHb0geuo7zJpiaFMg86tBjAjQd4T-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <b8a9cd2b-c080-de2d-288e-7ce967f2e45d@python.org>
 <CA+3bQGFEh3tY+kAYdms0FHb0geuo7zJpiaFMg86tBjAjQd4T-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d7d2da24-6880-6f8f-46ec-0df23b8cfe7d@python.org>


Le 24/03/2019 ? 22:12, Victor Stinner a ?crit?:
> The PEP 13 defines who deserves to become a core developer:
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#membership

Or here's the introductory sentence:

"""Here's an incomplete list of areas where contributions may be
considered for joining the core team, in no particular order:"""

(note "may", not "will" or "should".  IOW, it will depend on the exact
involvement ahd whether it's directly relevant to core development)

Regards

Antoine.

From vstinner at redhat.com  Sun Mar 24 17:23:28 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:23:28 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHPKaQHjG3TARevTeaHptwnnc0mriay_1aavpOy7mZ3Jw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Le dim. 24 mars 2019 ? 17:14, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and
> GitHub) as a core developer. Perhaps not one from us is surprised that
> he is not yet a core developer.

I discussed with Stefan this week and I told him that I was surprised
that he is not a core developer yet. I didn't follow Stefan's recent
work, so I didn't feel able to propose him (and I am already proposing
another St?phane, St?phane Wirtel, this week :-)). It seems like
Serhiy offers to propose to promote him, good! Stefan has my +1 (I
voted at discuss.python.org).


> Stefan is a core developer of Cython (...)

Cython became a major project in the Python community (see the PSF
award). I noticed that sometimes Cython is slow to be updated to
support new Python changes (like the new way to store exceptions in
PyThreadState of Python 3.7).

It became frequent that major projects like numpy fail to be build on
"python nightly" because Cython doesn't work on the master branch of
Python.

I don't expect Stefan to be suddenly more active upstream in term of
fixing random Python issues. I would like to see Stefan working more
closely with developers who are modifying Python internals. For
example, the change moving PyInterpreterState to the internal API
(Include/internal). If such change breaks Cython, it would help to see
the authors of such changes helping Stefan to fix Cython. Or at least,
Stefan notify the authors. Slowly, I hope that Cython will collaborate
more with Python upstream.

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From vstinner at redhat.com  Sun Mar 24 17:43:16 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:43:16 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Le dim. 24 mars 2019 ? 15:52, Giampaolo Rodola' <g.rodola at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> (..)
> That's how it's done in real life and has been done for the Steering
> Council elections, so I think we should do the same for core-dev
> nominations, and possibly also incarnate this in a PEP. It would be
> nice if such a PEP would encourage the person who proposes the
> nomination to provide a detailed description of the candidate (links
> to main past contributions, candidate's areas of interest, GIT
> statistics, etc.), so that the voters can express a better preference.

When I proposed St?phane Wirtel to open a vote to promote him, I told
him that even if the result can be negative, it's ok, he should see
the vote as part of a "process" (to become a core dev sometime).
Feedbacks will help to identify things that should be enhanced. Well,
even if the result is "positive" (>= 2/3 majority), -1 justified votes
help for the same reason. Nobody is perfect, there are always things
that should be enhanced.

There are now multiple -1 votes and none has been justified in public.

It remains consistent with what Giampaolo just wrote: not having to
justify a vote helps to have a "fair" vote. I'm ok with that.

But now, I'm not sure how to use the vote result.

I would be interested that the ones who voted -1 would send me their
reasons in private (now and after the vote closes), so I can send an
*anonymous* feedback to St?phane. I hope that you will trust me enough
to anonymize your feedback ;-) But I'm also fine with "-1 voters" who
are not comfortable to share their reason with me.

By the way, I'm also surprised to see that on 11 "+1" votes, only 3
added a comment. I'm not sure of the "value" of "+1" without a
comment. Does the voter know St?phane and/or saw his work. How did the
voter make their decision? In the past, these comments helped me to
vote when I wasn't sure about a candidate. For example, if someone
showed a strong support, and I trust the voter, I follow their vote
(well, taking a decision is more complex than that in practice, but I
hope that you see my point).

Sorry, I'm just thinking aloud :-) It's just that I'm confused by the
novelty of this vote :-)


> On the other hand, I think votes for technical decisions (if any) are
> better if kept public, and possibly always accompained by a reason
> (otherwise abstention is better).

I agree.

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From tim.peters at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 23:58:27 2019
From: tim.peters at gmail.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:58:27 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>

[Victor Stinner]
...

> By the way, I'm also surprised to see that on 11 "+1" votes, only 3
> added a comment. I'm not sure of the "value" of "+1" without a
> comment. Does the voter know St?phane and/or saw his work. How did the
> voter make their decision? In the past, these comments helped me to
> vote when I wasn't sure about a candidate. For example, if someone
> showed a strong support, and I trust the voter, I follow their vote
> (well, taking a decision is more complex than that in practice, but I
> hope that you see my point).
>

I voted +1.  I haven't had significant interaction with St?phane but
certainly recognized the name and had a favorable impression.  But of my
own knowledge, I have no strong opinion either way.  So my +1 was driven
primarily by the strong endorsement you gave.

Was that worth writing up?  Not to me ;-)  It's probably unrealistic to
imagine than _anyone_ in the future will be well known to a majority of
then-current core devs.  I only want to hear from those who _do_ have a
strong opinion based on significant experience.

So I'm disappointed that I've seen nothing from those who voted -1.   In
the absence of an explicit message, I can assume a +1 voter is happy enough
with what the original proposer said.  But in the absence of any -1 voter
explaining their reasoning, I have no idea what to make of it.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190324/bdddabcf/attachment-0001.html>

From vstinner at redhat.com  Mon Mar 25 04:09:48 2019
From: vstinner at redhat.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:09:48 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
	=?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
	=?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>

Le lun. 25 mars 2019 ? 04:58, Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> I voted +1.  I haven't had significant interaction with St?phane but certainly recognized the name and had a favorable impression.  But of my own knowledge, I have no strong opinion either way.  So my +1 was driven primarily by the strong endorsement you gave.

Honestly, such short comment is useful to me if I would be undecided.
I could decide to not follow your vote for example, since you don't
know enough St?phane nor his work :-)

Having 90% voters who have "no strong opinion either way" or 90% of
voters who have a strong opinion (in either way, +1 or -1) would be
very different.


> Was that worth writing up?  Not to me ;-)  It's probably unrealistic to imagine than _anyone_ in the future will be well known to a majority of then-current core devs.  I only want to hear from those who _do_ have a strong opinion based on significant experience.

Just about the raw numbers, I'm happy to see that the vote got 18
votes in 3 days! I expected less. And I'm never comfortable to see a
candidate promotion accepted or rejected when there are too few votes.
Voting for promotion works :-) It seems like 1 week (including next
weekend) will be enough to get enough votes.


> So I'm disappointed that I've seen nothing from those who voted -1.   In the absence of an explicit message, I can assume a +1 voter is happy enough with what the original proposer said.  But in the absence of any -1 voter explaining their reasoning, I have no idea what to make of it.

In the past, I guess that multiple voters abstained them rather than
voting -1, only because they didn't feel comfortable for whatever
reason to have to justify a -1 in public. I also see 2 "-1" votes on
Stefan Behnel's promotion, and none is justified:
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-stefan-behnel-as-a-core-developer/1054

It's really hard to vote -1 in "front of" a candidate and in public if
there is significant "risk" that the candidate will be promoted and so
will become your peer soon. "Hello new core dev, you don't deserve
your promotion" would not be a warm welcome :-(

I'm surprised because previously the number of "-1" votes was lower.
One obvious explanation is that previously votes were not anonymous. I
guess that it takes time to be used to the new voting method. I guess
that with an anonymous vote, it's just that the result is "more
realistic" to the real opinion and so is more "fair". It's a good
thing that voters feel free to vote, no?

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Mar 25 05:17:25 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 10:17:25 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>

I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the discussion around the voting
process and the candidates.

First, we've been complaining about lack of core devs for a long
time. Now we have two great candidates with proven track record of
contributing to Python and people complain again. As a small group,
we need to attract more capable people and such push back
is not a very productive way of doing so.

Second, as in any vote, no one should feel pushed to comment or
even argue for his or her opinion on a candidate. People nominating
a candidate are the ones who need to write this up, but not the
other group members. A vote to accept someone to a group is a
personal opinion and should be respected as such.

If people feel they need more guidance, they should ask the ones
who nominated the candidates - in public or in private. Because the
candidates themselves cannot comment (at least not on this list;
don't know about discourse), such discussions have to be
moderated by the nominating parties with care.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 25 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From storchaka at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 08:48:54 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:48:54 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <b8a9cd2b-c080-de2d-288e-7ce967f2e45d@python.org>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <b8a9cd2b-c080-de2d-288e-7ce967f2e45d@python.org>
Message-ID: <4fc4242b-eb2a-7b06-bc9a-cce2b087017d@gmail.com>

24.03.19 18:40, Antoine Pitrou ????:
> I don't know.  If he's not very active in writing or reviewing PRs, then
> perhaps he doesn't _need_ core developer rights.

I understand you. He does not _need_ core developer rights just for 
this. But I have a grounded hope that Stefan can be the next maintainer 
of the xml.etree package (and maybe other XML modules). And I think it 
would be good to have a person who is a core developer of both CPython 
and Cython. We need more tight collaboration with Cython.


From storchaka at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 08:56:50 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:56:50 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <e0b84251-e639-2748-4ea7-5b50ef31b83a@udel.edu>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <e0b84251-e639-2748-4ea7-5b50ef31b83a@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <1a0110f9-43c9-4988-2b5a-066b63fe40c7@gmail.com>

24.03.19 20:27, Terry Reedy ????:
> Have you asked Stefan if he would like the privilege, accept it, and 
> would at least occasionally use it?

Actually it is Stefan who asked me to promote him. So he is definitely 
would like.



From storchaka at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 09:02:37 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:02:37 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHPKaQHjG3TARevTeaHptwnnc0mriay_1aavpOy7mZ3Jw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHPKaQHjG3TARevTeaHptwnnc0mriay_1aavpOy7mZ3Jw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6dfa159d-0c8e-0b2d-df6d-31a7aeb211e1@gmail.com>

24.03.19 23:23, Victor Stinner ????:
> Cython became a major project in the Python community (see the PSF
> award). I noticed that sometimes Cython is slow to be updated to
> support new Python changes (like the new way to store exceptions in
> PyThreadState of Python 3.7).

It is not slow. But it took a time to update Cython version in 
dependencies of other projects.



From steve.dower at python.org  Mon Mar 25 11:20:43 2019
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:20:43 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>

On 25Mar2019 0217, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the discussion around the voting
> process and the candidates.
> 
> First, we've been complaining about lack of core devs for a long
> time. Now we have two great candidates with proven track record of
> contributing to Python and people complain again. As a small group,
> we need to attract more capable people and such push back
> is not a very productive way of doing so.

To be clear, my pushback (on Discourse, since I can only send email from 
an actual laptop these days but can participate over there from my 
phone) has been against vague nominations, not the individuals themselves.

I'm *very* concerned about the perception of commit rights being 
"awarded" rather than being a added responsibility specific to CPython. 
Nominees should be willing to take on extra responsibility, and 
nominators should be making clear that the nominee is at least somewhat 
proven to be ready for it. Nominations for being a good contributor to 
other projects makes no sense, and nominations without a specific role 
or focus area are also vague enough that I don't see it leading to 
longer standing commitment.

I don't necessarily want to formalize a specific set of rules or things 
that people have to do in order to become a core developer. But I do 
want to avoid creating a culture of "this person is nice and built a 
nice library let's give them commit rights". The PSF already recognizes 
people for these contributions, which is the right way to do it.

If the core committers (via the SC) also want to offer a vote of thanks 
to a community member, then sure, we can do that. But keep it separate 
from "we trust you to modify the language/runtime/core tools without 
oversight".

> If people feel they need more guidance, they should ask the ones
> who nominated the candidates - in public or in private. Because the
> candidates themselves cannot comment (at least not on this list;
> don't know about discourse), such discussions have to be
> moderated by the nominating parties with care.

Isn't this what's been happening? It certainly has been on Discourse. 
FWIW, it'd be great if there was a way to add someone to a single thread 
so they _could_ post there - Stefan in particular has had to email a few 
of us off-list to respond to our queries (though in doing so has proven 
his commitment, at least as far as I'm concerned, so overall it probably 
worked out better :) ).

Cheers,
STeve

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Mar 25 18:03:08 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:03:08 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
 <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
Message-ID: <f4cec1b9-64f3-cd94-7c62-9e5bc1d6acc3@egenix.com>

On 25.03.2019 16:20, Steve Dower wrote:
> On 25Mar2019 0217, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the discussion around the voting
>> process and the candidates.
>>
>> First, we've been complaining about lack of core devs for a long
>> time. Now we have two great candidates with proven track record of
>> contributing to Python and people complain again. As a small group,
>> we need to attract more capable people and such push back
>> is not a very productive way of doing so.
> 
> To be clear, my pushback (on Discourse, since I can only send email from
> an actual laptop these days but can participate over there from my
> phone) has been against vague nominations, not the individuals themselves.
> 
> I'm *very* concerned about the perception of commit rights being
> "awarded" rather than being a added responsibility specific to CPython.

I'm not sure where you got that perception from. The two candidates
both want to actively contribute to Python.

It's possible that the nominations did not emphasize this enough, but
that's an issue with the nomination text, not with the person being
nominated.

Yet, the public perception of the discussion is that the persons are
not qualified enough and that's definitely not going to have a
productive effect on getting more people helping.

> Nominees should be willing to take on extra responsibility, and
> nominators should be making clear that the nominee is at least somewhat
> proven to be ready for it. Nominations for being a good contributor to
> other projects makes no sense, and nominations without a specific role
> or focus area are also vague enough that I don't see it leading to
> longer standing commitment.
> 
> I don't necessarily want to formalize a specific set of rules or things
> that people have to do in order to become a core developer. But I do
> want to avoid creating a culture of "this person is nice and built a
> nice library let's give them commit rights". The PSF already recognizes
> people for these contributions, which is the right way to do it.
> 
> If the core committers (via the SC) also want to offer a vote of thanks
> to a community member, then sure, we can do that. But keep it separate
> from "we trust you to modify the language/runtime/core tools without
> oversight".
> 
>> If people feel they need more guidance, they should ask the ones
>> who nominated the candidates - in public or in private. Because the
>> candidates themselves cannot comment (at least not on this list;
>> don't know about discourse), such discussions have to be
>> moderated by the nominating parties with care.
> 
> Isn't this what's been happening? It certainly has been on Discourse.

Not really. I'm not talking about some moderator having to step
in to take action. I'm talking about the nominators actively
supporting the discussion by fixing mistakes in the nomination,
proxying and adding more information (since the candidates cannot
speak for themselves) and helping to clarify misconceptions.

Asking people who have voted -1 or +1 to publicly tell the world why
they did so is not helpful in this respect, since it just creates bias.
What people, who are unsure how to vote, really need, is more
information, not bias.

> FWIW, it'd be great if there was a way to add someone to a single thread
> so they _could_ post there - Stefan in particular has had to email a few
> of us off-list to respond to our queries (though in doing so has proven
> his commitment, at least as far as I'm concerned, so overall it probably
> worked out better :) ).

Indeed, it would be helpful to at least allow the candidate to
post to discourse (technically, it wouldn't be hard to give them
temporary access to this ML either). Having people discuss about
yourself and not being able to participate puts the candidates into a
very odd and vulnerable position, esp. when the discussion is public.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 25 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From g.rodola at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 18:13:28 2019
From: g.rodola at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:13:28 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
 <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAFYqXL_NpAh2PLtN+vKKYrCDTZ0m=orVqEBiA4vLcBSzoviZUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:20 PM Steve Dower <steve.dower at python.org> wrote:
>
> On 25Mar2019 0217, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> > I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the discussion around the voting
> > process and the candidates.
> >
> > First, we've been complaining about lack of core devs for a long
> > time. Now we have two great candidates with proven track record of
> > contributing to Python and people complain again. As a small group,
> > we need to attract more capable people and such push back
> > is not a very productive way of doing so.
>
> To be clear, my pushback (on Discourse, since I can only send email from
> an actual laptop these days but can participate over there from my
> phone) has been against vague nominations, not the individuals themselves.
>
> I'm *very* concerned about the perception of commit rights being
> "awarded" rather than being a added responsibility specific to CPython.
> Nominees should be willing to take on extra responsibility, and
> nominators should be making clear that the nominee is at least somewhat
> proven to be ready for it. Nominations for being a good contributor to
> other projects makes no sense, and nominations without a specific role
> or focus area are also vague enough that I don't see it leading to
> longer standing commitment.

Agreed. The fact that what we do here is voluntary work implies that
the primary factor at play is supposed to be passion more than
recognition. That's why giving the commit bit as an incentive to
attract more workforce is not gonna fly IMO. Not that seeking for
recognition is bad per se, but there's already a tool for that and
which applies to anyone: authoring the contribution (either in
Misc/NEWS or whatsnew). If somebody is passionate to invest his/her
time long enough and with enough competence the step to becoming a
core-dev should be somewhat obvious and happen naturally.

(this is in no way related to the current nominations per se - it's a
general take/note)

--
Giampaolo - http://grodola.blogspot.com

From steve.dower at python.org  Mon Mar 25 18:58:12 2019
From: steve.dower at python.org (Steve Dower)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 15:58:12 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <f4cec1b9-64f3-cd94-7c62-9e5bc1d6acc3@egenix.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
 <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
 <f4cec1b9-64f3-cd94-7c62-9e5bc1d6acc3@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <8813e08c-8c6c-d0e2-1bd0-d9d38384ef2f@python.org>

On 25Mar2019 1503, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> On 25.03.2019 16:20, Steve Dower wrote:
>> To be clear, my pushback (on Discourse, since I can only send email from
>> an actual laptop these days but can participate over there from my
>> phone) has been against vague nominations, not the individuals themselves.
>>
>> I'm *very* concerned about the perception of commit rights being
>> "awarded" rather than being a added responsibility specific to CPython.
> 
> I'm not sure where you got that perception from. The two candidates
> both want to actively contribute to Python.
> 
> It's possible that the nominations did not emphasize this enough, but
> that's an issue with the nomination text, not with the person being
> nominated.

That's literally what I said.

> Yet, the public perception of the discussion is that the persons are
> not qualified enough and that's definitely not going to have a
> productive effect on getting more people helping.

I don't know where you got *this* from. I haven't seen any criticism of 
the candidates themselves - just questions that ought to have been 
answered very easily in the nomination (and were answered almost 
immediately upon request).

>> Isn't this what's been happening? It certainly has been on Discourse.
> 
> Not really. I'm not talking about some moderator having to step
> in to take action. I'm talking about the nominators actively
> supporting the discussion by fixing mistakes in the nomination,
> proxying and adding more information (since the candidates cannot
> speak for themselves) and helping to clarify misconceptions.

Um, that's exactly what happened? I don't understand why you're saying 
it didn't (unless someone's edited the history over there between me 
reading it and you reading it).

> Asking people who have voted -1 or +1 to publicly tell the world why
> they did so is not helpful in this respect, since it just creates bias.
> What people, who are unsure how to vote, really need, is more
> information, not bias.

This is illogical. Knowing how and why certain people voted is useful 
information when you know that person (and it's also why we generally 
use options like -1, -0, +0, +1, and sometimes +/-100 ;) ). Without this 
added information, the *only* thing we have is bias, and I don't think 
we have a big enough group to average out individual bias in such 
important decisions as this.

Cheers,
Steve

From raymond.hettinger at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 00:20:46 2019
From: raymond.hettinger at gmail.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 21:20:46 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2130BBC8-DDAE-4584-9ED6-859AB9056DD0@gmail.com>


> On Mar 22, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team

For some reason, I can't vote on discourse. The message is "you can vote because you can't post in this topic."  So please add this post to the tally.

On the plus side, I've enjoyed working with St?phane Wirtel and think he is a great person and Python enthusiast. That said, I think we should wait.  The contributions thus far have been very light weight. Also, I've not seen active, critical decision making on the bug tracker that would demonstrate an understanding of what to approve and what not to approve.

Nominating someone too early puts us all in an awkward position. It's no fun to vote with a -1.  If the nomination has been allowed to mature, this could be a more positive experience for everyone.  We shouldn't have just one person spewing out nominations and doing it prematurely (imo). We had that situation happen in the PSF and it quickly degraded as people started nominating their friends some of whom had only light associations with Python. In the end, that situation necessitated a reorg to where the new standard was zero.  We already have a number of core-devs who are core devs in name only, having never made a commit or actively participated in developing the core.

Socially, there are two other concerns. One concern is unevenness -- the bar was very high for some people and very low for others. It really seems to matter who nominated you and who your friends are.  The other concern is formation of cliques of friends who approve each other's proposals, but falling into groupthink because of light experience and low diversity of ideas.


Raymond



From mal at egenix.com  Tue Mar 26 04:58:09 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 09:58:09 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <8813e08c-8c6c-d0e2-1bd0-d9d38384ef2f@python.org>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
 <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
 <f4cec1b9-64f3-cd94-7c62-9e5bc1d6acc3@egenix.com>
 <8813e08c-8c6c-d0e2-1bd0-d9d38384ef2f@python.org>
Message-ID: <a9546659-9376-824d-47bd-e912e39b4294@egenix.com>

On 25.03.2019 23:58, Steve Dower wrote:
> On 25Mar2019 1503, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> On 25.03.2019 16:20, Steve Dower wrote:
>>> To be clear, my pushback (on Discourse, since I can only send email from
>>> an actual laptop these days but can participate over there from my
>>> phone) has been against vague nominations, not the individuals
>>> themselves.
>>>
>>> I'm *very* concerned about the perception of commit rights being
>>> "awarded" rather than being a added responsibility specific to CPython.
>>
>> I'm not sure where you got that perception from. The two candidates
>> both want to actively contribute to Python.
>>
>> It's possible that the nominations did not emphasize this enough, but
>> that's an issue with the nomination text, not with the person being
>> nominated.
> 
> That's literally what I said.

Great, so we're on the same page.

>> Yet, the public perception of the discussion is that the persons are
>> not qualified enough and that's definitely not going to have a
>> productive effect on getting more people helping.
> 
> I don't know where you got *this* from. I haven't seen any criticism of
> the candidates themselves - just questions that ought to have been
> answered very easily in the nomination (and were answered almost
> immediately upon request).

I'm reading both this list and discourse (in mailing list mode).
Perhaps those comments were mostly on the ML.

>>> Isn't this what's been happening? It certainly has been on Discourse.
>>
>> Not really. I'm not talking about some moderator having to step
>> in to take action. I'm talking about the nominators actively
>> supporting the discussion by fixing mistakes in the nomination,
>> proxying and adding more information (since the candidates cannot
>> speak for themselves) and helping to clarify misconceptions.
> 
> Um, that's exactly what happened? I don't understand why you're saying
> it didn't (unless someone's edited the history over there between me
> reading it and you reading it).

The post for St?phane on discourse still reads the same as the original
posting on discourse and this ML. The last edit was on March 22.

>> Asking people who have voted -1 or +1 to publicly tell the world why
>> they did so is not helpful in this respect, since it just creates bias.
>> What people, who are unsure how to vote, really need, is more
>> information, not bias.
> 
> This is illogical. Knowing how and why certain people voted is useful
> information when you know that person (and it's also why we generally
> use options like -1, -0, +0, +1, and sometimes +/-100 ;) ). Without this
> added information, the *only* thing we have is bias, and I don't think
> we have a big enough group to average out individual bias in such
> important decisions as this.

I guess we have a different understanding of bias, then :-)

I prefer to base my votes and opinions on available information
much more than other people's votes and opinions. Using their
votes to cover up for lack of information does not make me
feel comfortable, so I try to get more information or abstain.

In the current case, I do know both candidates well enough
to give them my vote.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 26 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From lukasz at langa.pl  Tue Mar 26 05:11:55 2019
From: lukasz at langa.pl (=?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz_Langa?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:11:55 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.8.0a3 is now available for
 testing
Message-ID: <17D69CA4-6E33-4FA4-BFF8-0642EC620639@langa.pl>

It's time for the third alpha of Python 3.8.0. Go get it here:
https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-380a3/

Python 3.8.0a3 is the third of four planned alpha releases of Python 3.8,
the next feature release of Python.  During the alpha phase, Python 3.8
remains under heavy development: additional features will be added
and existing features may be modified or deleted.  Please keep in mind
that this is a preview release and its use is not recommended for
production environments.  The last alpha release, 3.8.0a4, is planned
for 2019-04-29.

I am happy to say that this time all buildbots were properly green. Thank you to everybody who worked on that.

- ?
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 833 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/attachments/20190326/1a72a4c7/attachment.sig>

From mal at egenix.com  Tue Mar 26 05:24:35 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:24:35 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] 
 =?utf-8?q?Vote_to_promote_St=C3=A9phane_Wirt?=
 =?utf-8?q?el_as_a_core_dev?=
In-Reply-To: <2130BBC8-DDAE-4584-9ED6-859AB9056DD0@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <2130BBC8-DDAE-4584-9ED6-859AB9056DD0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bc8ff116-5f08-6270-356e-f594fd7a295c@egenix.com>

On 26.03.2019 05:20, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Victor Stinner <vstinner at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> Julien Palard and me (Victor) propose to promote St?phane Wirtel as
>> core developer. We open a vote until March 31 (~one week). "[A
>> promotion] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes
>> in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council."
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#the-core-team
> 
> For some reason, I can't vote on discourse. The message is "you can vote because you can't post in this topic."  So please add this post to the tally.
> 
> On the plus side, I've enjoyed working with St?phane Wirtel and think he is a great person and Python enthusiast. That said, I think we should wait.  The contributions thus far have been very light weight. Also, I've not seen active, critical decision making on the bug tracker that would demonstrate an understanding of what to approve and what not to approve.

Doesn't a good core dev have to have two main characteristics:
1. be passionate about Python and 2. be knowledgeable in a
field of expertise ?

Decision making is something you grow into with experience and
you first have to get a feel for the group you're making decisions
for. I don't believe we should make this a number one criterion
for voting someone in.

> Nominating someone too early puts us all in an awkward position. It's no fun to vote with a -1.  If the nomination has been allowed to mature, this could be a more positive experience for everyone.  We shouldn't have just one person spewing out nominations and doing it prematurely (imo). We had that situation happen in the PSF and it quickly degraded as people started nominating their friends some of whom had only light associations with Python. In the end, that situation necessitated a reorg to where the new standard was zero.  We already have a number of core-devs who are core devs in name only, having never made a commit or actively participated in developing the core.

Sorry, Raymond, but the above comment on the PSF isn't quite accurate.
At the time when the PSF was invite only, we tried very hard to grow
the organization and luckily reached a point where we no longer had
the much too comfortable situation of everyone knowing everyone else.

It's just natural that people then had to start voting in people
based on nomination text only knowledge. While I know that there were
many discussions around this at the time (much like we have now
on this list), the reorg did not come out of frustration about
the way we dealt with the nominations, but instead out of the
desire to be an open organization, rather than an elite club.

Now, the situation with the core devs is a bit different, since
we are actively working together on a project and people put a lot
of trust into us. The bar definitely is higher and we cannot
simply allow anyone to join.

I agree with your point about letting nominations mature, but
I'm also concerned about the lack of active core devs and the
push back the two nominations are getting. Here we have two
very candidates who are very passionate about Python and would
like to help, yet we have nothing better to do than to criticize
their readiness.

We do have to make up our minds: either we do want this group to
grow or we don't. If we do, we should probably come up with more
structure for nomination texts to make existing group members
feel more comfortable about voting someone in based on those,
instead of relying on other group members votes and only
amplifying them.

> Socially, there are two other concerns. One concern is unevenness -- the bar was very high for some people and very low for others. It really seems to matter who nominated you and who your friends are.  The other concern is formation of cliques of friends who approve each other's proposals, but falling into groupthink because of light experience and low diversity of ideas.

Yes, there is a risk and yes, some core devs got in easier than
others (think of the need for speed sprint participants), but
I think all this is manageable.

I don't think that vote amplification is the right way, though,
for much the same reasons you state above, hence my push back
against that strategy.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 26 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From nad at python.org  Mon Mar 25 20:05:40 2019
From: nad at python.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 20:05:40 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.7.3 is now available
Message-ID: <A942C00C-74D5-489D-93E2-0AA176F67CA8@python.org>

https://blog.python.org/2019/03/python-373-is-now-available.html

Python 3.7.3 is now available. Python 3.7.3 is the next
maintenance release of Python 3.7, the latest feature release of Python.
You can find Python 3.7.3 here:
   https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-373/

See the What?s New In Python 3.7 document for more information about the
many new features and optimizations included in the 3.7 series. Detailed
information about the changes made in 3.7.3 can be found in its change log.

Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and
these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by
volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python
Software Foundation.

https://docs.python.org/3.7/whatsnew/3.7.html
https://docs.python.org/3.7/whatsnew/changelog.html#python-3-7-3-final
https://www.python.org/psf/

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at python.org -- []


From antoine at python.org  Tue Mar 26 13:54:21 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:54:21 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <a9546659-9376-824d-47bd-e912e39b4294@egenix.com>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
 <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
 <f4cec1b9-64f3-cd94-7c62-9e5bc1d6acc3@egenix.com>
 <8813e08c-8c6c-d0e2-1bd0-d9d38384ef2f@python.org>
 <a9546659-9376-824d-47bd-e912e39b4294@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <8d7b15f5-4eaa-dee1-5498-a448ce64ff23@python.org>


Le 26/03/2019 ? 09:58, M.-A. Lemburg a ?crit?:
> 
>>> Asking people who have voted -1 or +1 to publicly tell the world why
>>> they did so is not helpful in this respect, since it just creates bias.
>>> What people, who are unsure how to vote, really need, is more
>>> information, not bias.
>>
>> This is illogical. Knowing how and why certain people voted is useful
>> information when you know that person (and it's also why we generally
>> use options like -1, -0, +0, +1, and sometimes +/-100 ;) ). Without this
>> added information, the *only* thing we have is bias, and I don't think
>> we have a big enough group to average out individual bias in such
>> important decisions as this.
> 
> I guess we have a different understanding of bias, then :-)
> 
> I prefer to base my votes and opinions on available information
> much more than other people's votes and opinions. Using their
> votes to cover up for lack of information does not make me
> feel comfortable, so I try to get more information or abstain.

The reason I'd like to know why people voted -1 is not because I plan to
vote like them (I can vote on my own - or, in these cases, not vote).
It's that I'd like to know what kind of objections people have against
those particular contributors becoming core developers.

Regards

Antoine.

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Mar 26 14:28:53 2019
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 14:28:53 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.8.0a3 is now available
 for testing
In-Reply-To: <17D69CA4-6E33-4FA4-BFF8-0642EC620639@langa.pl>
References: <17D69CA4-6E33-4FA4-BFF8-0642EC620639@langa.pl>
Message-ID: <ffe42a04-1803-cc35-a9b8-bc59c55da785@udel.edu>

On 3/26/2019 5:11 AM, ?ukasz Langa wrote:
> It's time for the third alpha of Python 3.8.0. Go get it here:
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-380a3/

This page
https://www.python.org/download/pre-releases/
still lists and links to .0a2


From mal at egenix.com  Tue Mar 26 15:07:40 2019
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 20:07:40 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates
In-Reply-To: <8d7b15f5-4eaa-dee1-5498-a448ce64ff23@python.org>
References: <CA+3bQGHbo5QhH+ZLj_ywHY8EL=b6M+tbxMN3utCWvykWGi8zVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHWbk-X9wsyR97j3y9XcnxD-etgbRbPLV_U3hWK3O1gPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ab65fcc-929d-4f6d-f7cd-8533604964b1@egenix.com>
 <CAP1=2W6yWVXv7m6eQFv39iRYmuMCxdsUstRrCJtSyipD-NtRuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP1=2W6wEh_yuvc-f8bGgXt+L3mZkTC-XTCOaeP729tk9N+W0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFYqXL_MRcv0mq1pVFe6aXmuW_+ZwrW_q=COui2189XCR4RDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGF9+wwa5PxoPP3ENYmw16Qzotqeep7rFbsPTFmo58xD+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAExdVNkdcY7J2TtEMkGPcZH1JCSXgBgngb0VO43+ZNsA-OGxkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+3bQGHjz2NwC6LyKW4DqT0eMgCps15eyYEb6zOmUZVXK338Lg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e9b3eb1b-0a1b-4a0d-0af7-ab18c1916ca0@egenix.com>
 <b4f0580c-eea5-c459-fb27-f6b14cf306a3@python.org>
 <f4cec1b9-64f3-cd94-7c62-9e5bc1d6acc3@egenix.com>
 <8813e08c-8c6c-d0e2-1bd0-d9d38384ef2f@python.org>
 <a9546659-9376-824d-47bd-e912e39b4294@egenix.com>
 <8d7b15f5-4eaa-dee1-5498-a448ce64ff23@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee21983a-1ce7-aef5-aa8f-bb476e60b5d2@egenix.com>

On 26.03.2019 18:54, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
> Le 26/03/2019 ? 09:58, M.-A. Lemburg a ?crit?:
>>
>>>> Asking people who have voted -1 or +1 to publicly tell the world why
>>>> they did so is not helpful in this respect, since it just creates bias.
>>>> What people, who are unsure how to vote, really need, is more
>>>> information, not bias.
>>>
>>> This is illogical. Knowing how and why certain people voted is useful
>>> information when you know that person (and it's also why we generally
>>> use options like -1, -0, +0, +1, and sometimes +/-100 ;) ). Without this
>>> added information, the *only* thing we have is bias, and I don't think
>>> we have a big enough group to average out individual bias in such
>>> important decisions as this.
>>
>> I guess we have a different understanding of bias, then :-)
>>
>> I prefer to base my votes and opinions on available information
>> much more than other people's votes and opinions. Using their
>> votes to cover up for lack of information does not make me
>> feel comfortable, so I try to get more information or abstain.
> 
> The reason I'd like to know why people voted -1 is not because I plan to
> vote like them (I can vote on my own - or, in these cases, not vote).
> It's that I'd like to know what kind of objections people have against
> those particular contributors becoming core developers.

That's a fair reason, but you have to consider a couple of
side effects:

* These forums are public, so whatever negative someone
  writes is going to stay associated with the candidate.

* The person writing the negative feedback may see a backslash
  as well and again, because it's public, have this associated
  with him or her.

* The vote may still be in favor of signing up the candidate
  as core dev and the person publishing the negative feedback
  will have to work together with the candidate.

It's usually best to keep such discussions private or at least
confined to a smaller circle of people to work around all of
the above issues.

Cheers,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Mar 26 2019)
>>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
>>> Python Database Interfaces ...           http://products.egenix.com/
>>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...           http://zope.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
                      http://www.malemburg.com/


From storchaka at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 05:03:31 2019
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:03:31 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0802eb1f-eee2-0b09-989b-d0300f657dc9@gmail.com>

I asked Stefan some questions and here is he answer.


27.03.19 10:25, Stefan Behnel ????:
> Hi Serhiy!
>
> It's actually good that you asked. Please forward this to the committers
> list for me.
>
> Serhiy Storchaka schrieb am 27.03.19 um 07:40:
>> Maybe it's my fault that I did not introduce you well enough, but there
>> were some questions.
> No problem. They are good questions, and the discussion around them was
> probably also necessary at some point.
>
>
>> Why do you want to be the core developer? Why do you
>> need these rights? Do you fully understand that this is not just rights,
>> but above all certain responsibilities.
>> Do you want to be a maintainer of the xml.etree package (and maybe other
>> XML modules)?
> I understand that it's a responsibility. I accept that responsibility, and
> yes, I think the XML packages would benefit from a couple more hands and
> heads, as would other parts of CPython. I also understand the difference
> between writing a PR and being able to merge it. :)
>
> Besides that, I think the position also gives a different standing, both in
> the circle of core devs and in the community, even though some core-devs
> are arguing against codifying that. I find it perfectly ok to strive for
> recognition in an unpaid job. The PSF is one way of giving out recognition,
> but it's not the only way. Being equal can sometimes be more valuable than
> being special.
>
> Regarding the process, I think it's good to have a grey zone in the ways
> how to become a core developer. It should be easy enough to not scare away
> candidates (because we need them!), but still have a bar that keeps people
> out who just want a nice title for their resume and then drop away after a
> couple of months.
>
> Why is that? Because there are costs associated with new core devs:
>
> 1) They need initial support and training, thus eating up the contributed
> time of other core developers. Adding new core devs should have the
> ultimate goal of *reducing* the time that others need to put into the
> project to get work done, not increase it.
>
> 2) Adding a new core dev increases the chance of dissent between people who
> can click merge buttons and revert commits. Managing groups of people is
> difficult, at least if there is more than one person involved.
>
> 3) Revoking the rights of a former contributor is a major social problem,
> thus leading to stale entries in the list of core-devs. (*)
>
> Thus, IMHO, the main questions to answer when deciding whether to add a new
> core dev are: 1) Is that person knowledgeable enough for the job and
> capable/expected to take over tasks from others? 2) Can that person be
> expected to participate in decision processes in a constructive way, and
> without starting merge wars? 3) Has that person been around for long enough
> to safely assume that it's not just a flash in the pan?
>
> Apart from that, given the social bar that someone has to promote a person
> (and probably wouldn't do that if that person is unlikely to pass the
> acceptance test), I think it's an acceptable process.
>
> It's a bet on the future, after all. Life and conditions change, and you
> can never be sure how a person will behave in a year's time, if that person
> will still be willing and capable of contributing then, or if that person
> will even be alive at all. Predictions are hard, especially about the
> future. We have to live with that, and adjust the tradeoffs accordingly.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> (*) The German language has the beautiful word "Karteileiche" for this,
> literally a dead body in a register.

From antoine at python.org  Wed Mar 27 08:51:54 2019
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:51:54 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <0802eb1f-eee2-0b09-989b-d0300f657dc9@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
 <0802eb1f-eee2-0b09-989b-d0300f657dc9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3baa5048-2dc7-5cf4-089b-3055eaf9c08b@python.org>


If Stefan is willing to become a XML maintainer, it sounds like a good
reason to make him core developer.

Regards

Antoine.


Le 27/03/2019 ? 10:03, Serhiy Storchaka a ?crit?:
> I asked Stefan some questions and here is he answer.
> 
> 
> 27.03.19 10:25, Stefan Behnel ????:
>> Hi Serhiy!
>>
>> It's actually good that you asked. Please forward this to the committers
>> list for me.
>>
>> Serhiy Storchaka schrieb am 27.03.19 um 07:40:
>>> Maybe it's my fault that I did not introduce you well enough, but there
>>> were some questions.
>> No problem. They are good questions, and the discussion around them was
>> probably also necessary at some point.
>>
>>
>>> Why do you want to be the core developer? Why do you
>>> need these rights? Do you fully understand that this is not just rights,
>>> but above all certain responsibilities.
>>> Do you want to be a maintainer of the xml.etree package (and maybe other
>>> XML modules)?
>> I understand that it's a responsibility. I accept that responsibility, and
>> yes, I think the XML packages would benefit from a couple more hands and
>> heads, as would other parts of CPython. I also understand the difference
>> between writing a PR and being able to merge it. :)
>>
>> Besides that, I think the position also gives a different standing, both in
>> the circle of core devs and in the community, even though some core-devs
>> are arguing against codifying that. I find it perfectly ok to strive for
>> recognition in an unpaid job. The PSF is one way of giving out recognition,
>> but it's not the only way. Being equal can sometimes be more valuable than
>> being special.
>>
>> Regarding the process, I think it's good to have a grey zone in the ways
>> how to become a core developer. It should be easy enough to not scare away
>> candidates (because we need them!), but still have a bar that keeps people
>> out who just want a nice title for their resume and then drop away after a
>> couple of months.
>>
>> Why is that? Because there are costs associated with new core devs:
>>
>> 1) They need initial support and training, thus eating up the contributed
>> time of other core developers. Adding new core devs should have the
>> ultimate goal of *reducing* the time that others need to put into the
>> project to get work done, not increase it.
>>
>> 2) Adding a new core dev increases the chance of dissent between people who
>> can click merge buttons and revert commits. Managing groups of people is
>> difficult, at least if there is more than one person involved.
>>
>> 3) Revoking the rights of a former contributor is a major social problem,
>> thus leading to stale entries in the list of core-devs. (*)
>>
>> Thus, IMHO, the main questions to answer when deciding whether to add a new
>> core dev are: 1) Is that person knowledgeable enough for the job and
>> capable/expected to take over tasks from others? 2) Can that person be
>> expected to participate in decision processes in a constructive way, and
>> without starting merge wars? 3) Has that person been around for long enough
>> to safely assume that it's not just a flash in the pan?
>>
>> Apart from that, given the social bar that someone has to promote a person
>> (and probably wouldn't do that if that person is unlikely to pass the
>> acceptance test), I think it's an acceptable process.
>>
>> It's a bet on the future, after all. Life and conditions change, and you
>> can never be sure how a person will behave in a year's time, if that person
>> will still be willing and capable of contributing then, or if that person
>> will even be alive at all. Predictions are hard, especially about the
>> future. We have to live with that, and adjust the tradeoffs accordingly.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>> (*) The German language has the beautiful word "Karteileiche" for this,
>> literally a dead body in a register.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> 

From raymond.hettinger at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 02:40:32 2019
From: raymond.hettinger at gmail.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 23:40:32 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
In-Reply-To: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
References: <d86e67d5-5661-40b0-701a-4a756534493a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <835E4E41-B00A-4780-AD63-238B563481E0@gmail.com>



> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Serhiy Storchaka <storchaka at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and GitHub) as a core developer.

Strong +1 from me.  Stefan has demonstrated deep knowledge, good judgment, and will be around for the long-term.  IMO, he is a first rate developer.


Raymond