From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Sat Oct  4 07:39:49 2014
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 11:09:49 +0530
Subject: [python-committers] Commit rights for Robert Collins
In-Reply-To: <20140923183146.2F9EB250DE6@webabinitio.net>
References: <541FF11F.9040409@voidspace.org.uk>
 <20140923183146.2F9EB250DE6@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <A0773B2B-F11C-4B6F-BA16-0F4A56D50E59@voidspace.org.uk>


On 24 Sep 2014, at 00:01, R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:51:27 +0100, Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk> wrote:
>> Robert Collins is volunteering to help with maintenance and improvement 
>> of unittest. He's probably known to many of you, but Robert is the 
>> creator of subunit, testtools and many Python libraries particularly in 
>> the area of testing.
>> 
>> I'd like Robert to have commit rights for this purpose. He's already 
>> submitted quite a few fixes and patches. Most recently issue 16662.
>> 
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue16662
>> 
>> Robert is an experienced and accomplished Python developer, so won't 
>> need much mentoring beyond learning our development processes (which 
>> branches to merge to, when a bug fix can be backported etc). In as much 
>> as he needs any mentoring I'm more than happy to work with Robert.
> 
> +1

It looks like there is general agreement that Robert should be given commit rights. I forget, who should he send his ssh keys to?

Thanks,

Michael

> 
> --David


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From benjamin at python.org  Sat Oct  4 07:45:26 2014
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 01:45:26 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Commit rights for Robert Collins
In-Reply-To: <A0773B2B-F11C-4B6F-BA16-0F4A56D50E59@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <541FF11F.9040409@voidspace.org.uk>
 <20140923183146.2F9EB250DE6@webabinitio.net>
 <A0773B2B-F11C-4B6F-BA16-0F4A56D50E59@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <1412401526.657853.175031445.40F37009@webmail.messagingengine.com>

hgaccounts at python.org

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014, at 01:39, Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> On 24 Sep 2014, at 00:01, R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:51:27 +0100, Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk> wrote:
> >> Robert Collins is volunteering to help with maintenance and improvement 
> >> of unittest. He's probably known to many of you, but Robert is the 
> >> creator of subunit, testtools and many Python libraries particularly in 
> >> the area of testing.
> >> 
> >> I'd like Robert to have commit rights for this purpose. He's already 
> >> submitted quite a few fixes and patches. Most recently issue 16662.
> >> 
> >> http://bugs.python.org/issue16662
> >> 
> >> Robert is an experienced and accomplished Python developer, so won't 
> >> need much mentoring beyond learning our development processes (which 
> >> branches to merge to, when a bug fix can be backported etc). In as much 
> >> as he needs any mentoring I'm more than happy to work with Robert.
> > 
> > +1
> 
> It looks like there is general agreement that Robert should be given
> commit rights. I forget, who should he send his ssh keys to?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael
> 
> > 
> > --David
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing 
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers

From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Sat Oct  4 07:47:11 2014
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 11:17:11 +0530
Subject: [python-committers] Commit rights for Robert Collins
In-Reply-To: <1412401526.657853.175031445.40F37009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <541FF11F.9040409@voidspace.org.uk>
 <20140923183146.2F9EB250DE6@webabinitio.net>
 <A0773B2B-F11C-4B6F-BA16-0F4A56D50E59@voidspace.org.uk>
 <1412401526.657853.175031445.40F37009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <86E9928A-FF5D-46F8-9CDC-54192583E89B@voidspace.org.uk>


On 4 Oct 2014, at 11:15, Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org> wrote:

> hgaccounts at python.org
> 

Thanks. I've forwarded this to Robert.

All the best,

Michael

> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014, at 01:39, Michael Foord wrote:
>> 
>> On 24 Sep 2014, at 00:01, R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:51:27 +0100, Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Robert Collins is volunteering to help with maintenance and improvement 
>>>> of unittest. He's probably known to many of you, but Robert is the 
>>>> creator of subunit, testtools and many Python libraries particularly in 
>>>> the area of testing.
>>>> 
>>>> I'd like Robert to have commit rights for this purpose. He's already 
>>>> submitted quite a few fixes and patches. Most recently issue 16662.
>>>> 
>>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue16662
>>>> 
>>>> Robert is an experienced and accomplished Python developer, so won't 
>>>> need much mentoring beyond learning our development processes (which 
>>>> branches to merge to, when a bug fix can be backported etc). In as much 
>>>> as he needs any mentoring I'm more than happy to work with Robert.
>>> 
>>> +1
>> 
>> It looks like there is general agreement that Robert should be given
>> commit rights. I forget, who should he send his ssh keys to?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>>> 
>>> --David
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> May you do good and not evil
>> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
>> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
>> -- the sqlite blessing 
>> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers


--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html






From georg at python.org  Sat Oct  4 15:21:47 2014
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:21:47 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.2.6rc1, Python 3.3.6rc1
Message-ID: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce
the release of Python 3.2.6rc1 and 3.3.6rc1.  Both are release candidates
for security-fix releases, which are provide source-only on python.org.

The list of security-related issues fixed in the releases is given in
the changelogs:

    https://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/v3.2.6rc1/Misc/NEWS
    https://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/v3.3.6rc1/Misc/NEWS

To download the pre-releases visit one of:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-326rc1/
    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-336rc1/

These are pre-releases, please report any bugs to

     http://bugs.python.org/

The final releases are scheduled one week from now.

Enjoy!

- -- 
Georg Brandl, Release Manager
georg at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and contributors)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2

iEYEARECAAYFAlQv9GsACgkQN9GcIYhpnLC93gCfVm74lhOysPYCO0fy9/l5LUfJ
bUYAn2u1EygfsPw2oa4CSoj5t0TYUJq7
=HnOK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Sun Oct  5 16:11:52 2014
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 10:11:52 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] cherry picking after rc
In-Reply-To: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>
References: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>
Message-ID: <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net>

Larry, saw your discussion on IRC with Georg about what to cherry pick
into the release clone before issuing final.  IMO you shouldn't cherry
pick anything, since I believe there have been *zero* issues opened that
said that the RC was broken.  IMO the only differences between the last
RC and final should be things that would otherwise cause a "brown bag
release" (ie: broken as shipped)[*].  Bug fixes subsequent to the RC
(including doc fixes) should just wait until the next release.

Of course, I am one of the more pedantic of the developers about this
topic, and have not served as an RM, so your mileage may vary :)

--David

[*] And I would argue that you then should have another RC before the
(then unchanged except for version number) final, but I've given up on
that :)

From antoine at python.org  Sun Oct  5 16:27:42 2014
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 16:27:42 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] cherry picking after rc
In-Reply-To: <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net>
References: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>
 <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <5431555E.6050204@python.org>


Le 05/10/2014 16:11, R. David Murray a ?crit :
> Larry, saw your discussion on IRC with Georg about what to cherry pick
> into the release clone before issuing final.  IMO you shouldn't cherry
> pick anything, since I believe there have been *zero* issues opened that
> said that the RC was broken.  IMO the only differences between the last
> RC and final should be things that would otherwise cause a "brown bag
> release" (ie: broken as shipped)[*].  Bug fixes subsequent to the RC
> (including doc fixes) should just wait until the next release.
> 
> Of course, I am one of the more pedantic of the developers about this
> topic, and have not served as an RM, so your mileage may vary :)

I don't know if I'm pedantic as well, but I agree with David.

Regards

Antoine.

From benjamin at python.org  Sun Oct  5 20:15:30 2014
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 14:15:30 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
Message-ID: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

"BreamoreBoy" is back on tracker touching hundreds of issues without
adding any new information. This is certainly not the first time. Can we
ban him?

From storchaka at gmail.com  Sun Oct  5 20:42:51 2014
From: storchaka at gmail.com (Serhiy Storchaka)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 21:42:51 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 05.10.14 21:15, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> "BreamoreBoy" is back on tracker touching hundreds of issues without
> adding any new information. This is certainly not the first time. Can we
> ban him?

I think it would be enough just to say him stop. He is not malicious.

Actually there was few cases when his reminders was helpful.



From benjamin at python.org  Sun Oct  5 20:47:06 2014
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 14:47:06 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014, at 14:42, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> On 05.10.14 21:15, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> > "BreamoreBoy" is back on tracker touching hundreds of issues without
> > adding any new information. This is certainly not the first time. Can we
> > ban him?
> 
> I think it would be enough just to say him stop. He is not malicious.

I did. http://bugs.python.org/issue18372#msg228613

> 
> Actually there was few cases when his reminders was helpful.

That's true, though, I'm not sure noise is worth the few issues that are
closed.

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Sun Oct  5 21:24:38 2014
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 15:24:38 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>

On Sun, 05 Oct 2014 14:47:06 -0400, Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014, at 14:42, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> > On 05.10.14 21:15, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> > > "BreamoreBoy" is back on tracker touching hundreds of issues without
> > > adding any new information. This is certainly not the first time. Can we
> > > ban him?
> > 
> > I think it would be enough just to say him stop. He is not malicious.
> 
> I did. http://bugs.python.org/issue18372#msg228613
> 
> > 
> > Actually there was few cases when his reminders was helpful.
> 
> That's true, though, I'm not sure noise is worth the few issues that are
> closed.

It is certainly true that I for one ignore anything with his name on it,
because most of the time it is noise and it isn't worth the effort
to figure out which ones aren't noise.

--David

From nad at acm.org  Sun Oct  5 21:36:38 2014
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:36:38 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org>

On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:24 , R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
> 
> It is certainly true that I for one ignore anything with his name on it,
> because most of the time it is noise and it isn't worth the effort
> to figure out which ones aren't noise.

To me, the main issue is that the noise is not just directed at python committers but also to the python users who have submitted those issues or otherwise following them (via nosy or otherwise).  I think the risk is that his noise sends a wrong message to those users: i.e. that python-dev has suddenly taken an interest in this issue and that, by taking the time to create a patch, the issue will somehow get magically resolved.  That won't happen, of course, unless a core developer chooses to get involved.

The point of having the issue tracker is to solve problems, not to have a kind of contest about how many issues can be closed.  Yes, all things being equal, it is better to have fewer open issues but that's not the primary goal.  And I am uncomfortable with the risk of users potentially inferring that he is somehow a de-facto "project leader" of Python maintenance.

--
  Ned Deily
  nad at acm.org -- []



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct  5 21:02:06 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 15:02:06 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <543195AE.4090609@udel.edu>

On 10/5/2014 2:15 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> "BreamoreBoy" is back on tracker touching hundreds of issues without
> adding any new information. This is certainly not the first time. Can we
> ban him?

Can we? Of course, but that is a rare last resort.  Should we? No.

I have closed several issues and responded to other because of his pings.

On core-mentorship list, people are told that after a few months with no 
response, particularly after posting a patch, it is ok to ping.  I 
suspect Mark thinks he is acting in accordance with this.

I have not seen Mark do now what lead to suspension of tracker admin 
privileges a few years ago -- which was to demand that someone respond 
or see the issue closed, which would then do.  It was Mark's choice then 
to leave the tracker completely (contrary to Guido's wishes).  If he has 
done the above on issues not involving me, then he should be told to stop.

It appears that someone somewhat recently gave Mark at least partial 
admin privileges (to change Versions).  If so, that would have been a 
message that he was doing ok after his return.  If he is not doing ok, 
let us give him more guidance.

If you are annoyed, lets discuss specifics and see if we can agree on 
refined guidelines to give him.  It could even be "leave Benjamin's 
issues alone".

tjr


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct  5 21:39:32 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 15:39:32 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu>

On 10/5/2014 2:47 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014, at 14:42, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
>> On 05.10.14 21:15, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>>> "BreamoreBoy" is back on tracker touching hundreds of issues without
>>> adding any new information. This is certainly not the first time. Can we
>>> ban him?
>>
>> I think it would be enough just to say him stop. He is not malicious.
>
> I did. http://bugs.python.org/issue18372#msg228613

On this one, he was a bit 'bossy'.  Not quite as extreme as a few years 
ago, but definitely in the wrong direction.  I responded on the issue, 
and will say more privately.

>> Actually there was few cases when his reminders was helpful.
>
> That's true, though, I'm not sure noise is worth the few issues that are
> closed.

I guess I have been luckier ;-)

tjr



From antoine at python.org  Sun Oct  5 22:42:16 2014
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 22:42:16 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>
 <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org>
Message-ID: <5431AD28.1000302@python.org>


Le 05/10/2014 21:36, Ned Deily a ?crit :
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:24 , R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
>>
>> It is certainly true that I for one ignore anything with his name on it,
>> because most of the time it is noise and it isn't worth the effort
>> to figure out which ones aren't noise.
> 
> To me, the main issue is that the noise is not just directed at python committers but also to the python users who have submitted those issues or otherwise following them (via nosy or otherwise).  I think the risk is that his noise sends a wrong message to those users: i.e. that python-dev has suddenly taken an interest in this issue and that, by taking the time to create a patch, the issue will somehow get magically resolved.  That won't happen, of course, unless a core developer chooses to get involved.
> 
> The point of having the issue tracker is to solve problems, not to
have a kind of contest about how many issues can be closed. Yes, all
things being equal, it is better to have fewer open issues but that's
not the primary goal.

I agree with Ned. Closing idle issues is nice, but it's hardly a benefit
to Python's quality.

Regards

Antoine.

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Oct  5 22:43:19 2014
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 22:43:19 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>
 <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org>
Message-ID: <m0sah7$4ci$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/05/2014 09:36 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 12:24 , R. David Murray <rdmurray at bitdance.com> wrote:
>> 
>> It is certainly true that I for one ignore anything with his name on it, 
>> because most of the time it is noise and it isn't worth the effort to
>> figure out which ones aren't noise.
> 
> To me, the main issue is that the noise is not just directed at python
> committers but also to the python users who have submitted those issues or
> otherwise following them (via nosy or otherwise).  I think the risk is that
> his noise sends a wrong message to those users: i.e. that python-dev has
> suddenly taken an interest in this issue and that, by taking the time to
> create a patch, the issue will somehow get magically resolved.  That won't
> happen, of course, unless a core developer chooses to get involved.

Most of the messages like "can someone look at this" don't seem to send any
wrong messages.  However, I agree that some of them are a bit pompous, like
this one: http://bugs.python.org/issue1284316#msg228480  Responses to hints
tend to sound offended: http://bugs.python.org/issue1284316#msg228483

> The point of having the issue tracker is to solve problems, not to have a
> kind of contest about how many issues can be closed.  Yes, all things being
> equal, it is better to have fewer open issues but that's not the primary
> goal. 

The tracker does profit from having less inactive issues that are ready
to be closed after a trivial commit, or being out of date or missing
requested feedback.  I've closed a few such in the last few days because
of Mark's pings.

Remember that one thing we'd like users to see before reporting is to
search the tracker for similar issues: the less noise they find there
the better.

> And I am uncomfortable with the risk of users potentially inferring
> that he is somehow a de-facto "project leader" of Python maintenance.

Well, those users can easily be informed about the circumstances should
a question arise.

In total, I think there's no grounds for a ban (yet), but his tone has to
be watched.  If hints from our side are con ignored or receive ad-hominem
responses, that'll change the situation in my opinion.

cheers,
Georg


From antoine at python.org  Sun Oct  5 22:44:42 2014
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 22:44:42 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <543195AE.4090609@udel.edu>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <543195AE.4090609@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <5431ADBA.6010902@python.org>


Le 05/10/2014 21:02, Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> 
> If you are annoyed, lets discuss specifics and see if we can agree on 
> refined guidelines to give him.  It could even be "leave Benjamin's 
> issues alone".

I'd like him to stop blindly pinging issues without trying to
investigate them. I routinely get several e-mail notifications per day
just because of his messages. It's highly annoying.

Regards

Antoine.

From nad at acm.org  Sun Oct  5 23:01:29 2014
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 14:01:29 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>
 <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org> <m0sah7$4ci$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-F19E8E.14012905102014@news.gmane.org>

In article <m0sah7$4ci$1 at ger.gmane.org>,
 Georg Brandl <g.brandl at gmx.net> wrote:
> On 10/05/2014 09:36 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> > To me, the main issue is that the noise is not just directed at python
> > committers but also to the python users who have submitted those issues or
> > otherwise following them (via nosy or otherwise).  I think the risk is that
> > his noise sends a wrong message to those users: i.e. that python-dev has
> > suddenly taken an interest in this issue and that, by taking the time to
> > create a patch, the issue will somehow get magically resolved.  That won't
> > happen, of course, unless a core developer chooses to get involved. 
> Most of the messages like "can someone look at this" don't seem to send any
> wrong messages.

I was thinking more of the messages to non-python-dev users along the 
lines of "Can you supply a patch?" with an implied promise that this 
will cause the issue to be resolved, often without any particular 
insight into whether such a patch should be written.

> The tracker does profit from having less inactive issues that are ready
> to be closed after a trivial commit, or being out of date or missing
> requested feedback.  I've closed a few such in the last few days because
> of Mark's pings.
> 
> Remember that one thing we'd like users to see before reporting is to
> search the tracker for similar issues: the less noise they find there
> the better.

I don't disagree with that.
 
> > And I am uncomfortable with the risk of users potentially inferring
> > that he is somehow a de-facto "project leader" of Python maintenance.
> Well, those users can easily be informed about the circumstances should
> a question arise.

How would we know?  They are likely unfamiliar with the python-dev 
project and they receive these emails from an unknown person, sometimes 
even offering apologies on behalf of an indefinite "we".

> In total, I think there's no grounds for a ban (yet), but his tone has to
> be watched.  If hints from our side are con ignored or receive ad-hominem
> responses, that'll change the situation in my opinion.

I dunno.  We've been down this road more than once over the years, 
always ending in some dust-up.  I really don't think it's healthy for 
python-dev or our users to keep repeating that.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Oct  5 23:22:18 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:22:18 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>

On 10/5/2014 3:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> I responded on the issue,
> and will say more privately.

I wrote him and tried to communicate three ideas.
1. Closing issues and responding to new messages, while important, are 
subsidiary to the primary goal of improving Python.
2. We would prefer more quality and less quantity.
3. We each set our priorites; he should not try to do so for us.

Terry



From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Oct  5 23:35:12 2014
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 23:35:12 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <nad-F19E8E.14012905102014@news.gmane.org>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20141005192439.6EF64250230@webabinitio.net>
 <1EC07284-D1CF-4CCA-A0DA-45F10F0D4EC0@acm.org> <m0sah7$4ci$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <nad-F19E8E.14012905102014@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <m0sdig$6na$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/05/2014 11:01 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> In article <m0sah7$4ci$1 at ger.gmane.org>,
>  Georg Brandl <g.brandl at gmx.net> wrote:
>> On 10/05/2014 09:36 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
>> > To me, the main issue is that the noise is not just directed at python
>> > committers but also to the python users who have submitted those issues or
>> > otherwise following them (via nosy or otherwise).  I think the risk is that
>> > his noise sends a wrong message to those users: i.e. that python-dev has
>> > suddenly taken an interest in this issue and that, by taking the time to
>> > create a patch, the issue will somehow get magically resolved.  That won't
>> > happen, of course, unless a core developer chooses to get involved. 
>> Most of the messages like "can someone look at this" don't seem to send any
>> wrong messages.
> 
> I was thinking more of the messages to non-python-dev users along the 
> lines of "Can you supply a patch?" with an implied promise that this 
> will cause the issue to be resolved, often without any particular 
> insight into whether such a patch should be written.

Submitting patches is almost never a bad idea.  But I agree the wholesale
nature of the commenting without insight into the issue is a bit worrying.

Just like the initial submission, the submission of a patch generates an
event with a certain probability of being noticed by "the right person" who'll
take it further.  I assume there are (established or aspiring) core developers
searching explicitly for issues with patch when looking for potential work.

>> > And I am uncomfortable with the risk of users potentially inferring
>> > that he is somehow a de-facto "project leader" of Python maintenance.
>> Well, those users can easily be informed about the circumstances should
>> a question arise.
> 
> How would we know?  They are likely unfamiliar with the python-dev 
> project and they receive these emails from an unknown person, sometimes 
> even offering apologies on behalf of an indefinite "we".

You're right.

>> In total, I think there's no grounds for a ban (yet), but his tone has to
>> be watched.  If hints from our side are con ignored or receive ad-hominem
>> responses, that'll change the situation in my opinion.
> 
> I dunno.  We've been down this road more than once over the years, 
> always ending in some dust-up.  I really don't think it's healthy for 
> python-dev or our users to keep repeating that.

Time for the COC overlords to chime in, I suppose.

cheers,
Georg


From antoine at python.org  Mon Oct  6 00:07:11 2014
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 00:07:11 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu> <5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <5431C10F.6060304@python.org>


Le 05/10/2014 23:22, Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> On 10/5/2014 3:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> I responded on the issue,
>> and will say more privately.
> 
> I wrote him and tried to communicate three ideas.
> 1. Closing issues and responding to new messages, while important, are 
> subsidiary to the primary goal of improving Python.
> 2. We would prefer more quality and less quantity.
> 3. We each set our priorites; he should not try to do so for us.

Thanks! I hope your mediation will change things for the better.

Regards

Antoine.

From raymond.hettinger at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 03:34:53 2014
From: raymond.hettinger at gmail.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:34:53 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <5431ADBA.6010902@python.org>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <543195AE.4090609@udel.edu> <5431ADBA.6010902@python.org>
Message-ID: <F58C46A9-FC95-4E1D-B24A-CAAB88B69245@gmail.com>


On Oct 5, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:

> Le 05/10/2014 21:02, Terry Reedy a ?crit :
>> 
>> If you are annoyed, lets discuss specifics and see if we can agree on 
>> refined guidelines to give him.  It could even be "leave Benjamin's 
>> issues alone".
> 
> I'd like him to stop blindly pinging issues without trying to
> investigate them. I routinely get several e-mail notifications per day
> just because of his messages. It's highly annoying.

FWIW, I'm also finding the behavior to be disruptive.
It is interfering with using the tracker to know which
issues are currently active.

Once in a while, it has a mildly beneficial effect of reminding us
about something that has lain dormant for too long, but most of
time the posts make the signal to noise ratio worse (mostly because
Mark's posts usually have almost zero information content).

I'm not at all into banning, but it would be nice if Mark's interest
could be channelled into something useful.


Raymond






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From senthil at uthcode.com  Mon Oct  6 05:51:02 2014
From: senthil at uthcode.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 20:51:02 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <F58C46A9-FC95-4E1D-B24A-CAAB88B69245@gmail.com>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <543195AE.4090609@udel.edu> <5431ADBA.6010902@python.org>
 <F58C46A9-FC95-4E1D-B24A-CAAB88B69245@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPOVWOSA+nGj_u=VaOZmB8w2-6E8jXyM4=kHw2Jon7ZdEumqOQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Raymond Hettinger <
raymond.hettinger at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not at all into banning, but it would be nice if Mark's interest
> could be channelled into something useful.
>

Yes, given that he is reasonable on emails. So requesting him to not just
prod/churn issues, but pick up issues to work
or contribute via email discussions would be better.

Thanks,
Senthil
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From larry at hastings.org  Mon Oct  6 05:17:44 2014
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 20:17:44 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] cherry picking after rc
In-Reply-To: <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net>
References: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>
 <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <543209D8.3070600@hastings.org>

On 10/05/2014 07:11 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> Larry, saw your discussion on IRC with Georg about what to cherry pick
> into the release clone before issuing final.  IMO you shouldn't cherry
> pick anything, since I believe there have been *zero* issues opened that
> said that the RC was broken.

3.4.2 has been tagged, and the only changes since 3.4.2rc1 are:

  * Martin made a small fix in the Windows installer build script
  * I rebuilt pydoc-topics correctly
  * Some minor doc touchups (fix "make suspicious" output so it runs clean)


I did make a pass over all the checkins to 3.4 since 3.4.2rc1, and found 
eighteen that I considered cherry-picking.  Five were crashes, four were 
nice-to-haves, four were asyncio changes, and five just seemed small and 
reasonable.  But nobody was begging me to pull anything in particular, 
and I'd like to have a nice easy release for once.  So I didn't 
cherry-pick anything.

I also didn't want to add another RC and slip the release--Matthias said 
he wanted to ship 3.4.2 with Ubuntu 14.10, but with their release only 
about two weeks away I didn't want to stress them out any more than 
necessary.  (One might say, "Ubuntu's release schedule is irrelevant, 
you should do what's best for Python".  To that I'd reply, "They asked 
nicely, and nobody else was asking for anything, so it seemed reasonable 
to accommodate them, and this will get 3.4.2 into the hands of a lot of 
people".)

Cheers,


//arry/
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 07:02:58 2014
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 15:02:58 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu> <5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fn8fru8vWsCbvhN=ewZu73DXQ3Pm1Ywg2vWo648-8yMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 October 2014 07:22, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 10/5/2014 3:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>> I responded on the issue,
>> and will say more privately.
>
> I wrote him and tried to communicate three ideas.
> 1. Closing issues and responding to new messages, while important, are
> subsidiary to the primary goal of improving Python.
> 2. We would prefer more quality and less quantity.
> 3. We each set our priorites; he should not try to do so for us.

Thanks Terry.

I know Mark is particularly concerned about the "open issues" tally
and constantly seeks ways to bring that down. Scattergun pinging of
open issues is one of the easiest, but also one of the ones with a
high hidden cost in annoying people - for developers, it may mean
getting dozens of email notifications, for issue submitters, it may
lead to anticipation of action, only to be disappointed when it's just
a ping asking for a status update.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 07:15:23 2014
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 15:15:23 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] cherry picking after rc
In-Reply-To: <543209D8.3070600@hastings.org>
References: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>
 <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net>
 <543209D8.3070600@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7dHuNrt5u31yhGANoCsar84Rkq69Yan62eMEzh+Ywpw9g@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 October 2014 13:17, Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org> wrote:
>
> I also didn't want to add another RC and slip the release--Matthias said he
> wanted to ship 3.4.2 with Ubuntu 14.10, but with their release only about
> two weeks away I didn't want to stress them out any more than necessary.
> (One might say, "Ubuntu's release schedule is irrelevant, you should do
> what's best for Python".  To that I'd reply, "They asked nicely, and nobody
> else was asking for anything, so it seemed reasonable to accommodate them,
> and this will get 3.4.2 into the hands of a lot of people".)

I may be a touch (*cough*totally*cough*) biased, but attempting to
accommodate redistributors when it doesn't place any excessive demands
on the upstream release cycle sounds like a fine approach to me :)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct  6 08:41:46 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 02:41:46 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] cherry picking after rc
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7dHuNrt5u31yhGANoCsar84Rkq69Yan62eMEzh+Ywpw9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <542FF46B.2040109@python.org>
 <20141005141152.B605D250D4D@webabinitio.net> <543209D8.3070600@hastings.org>
 <CADiSq7dHuNrt5u31yhGANoCsar84Rkq69Yan62eMEzh+Ywpw9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543239AA.8010805@udel.edu>

On 10/6/2014 1:15 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 6 October 2014 13:17, Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org> wrote:
>>
>> I also didn't want to add another RC and slip the release--Matthias said he
>> wanted to ship 3.4.2 with Ubuntu 14.10, but with their release only about
>> two weeks away I didn't want to stress them out any more than necessary.
>> (One might say, "Ubuntu's release schedule is irrelevant, you should do
>> what's best for Python".  To that I'd reply, "They asked nicely, and nobody
>> else was asking for anything, so it seemed reasonable to accommodate them,
>> and this will get 3.4.2 into the hands of a lot of people".)
>
> I may be a touch (*cough*totally*cough*) biased, but attempting to
> accommodate redistributors when it doesn't place any excessive demands
> on the upstream release cycle sounds like a fine approach to me :)

I don't have that bias, and I think that finalizing an apparently good 
candidate -- and doing 3.4.3 in about 4 months, is the right thing 
anyway.  If there were a .rc2 released, it would not be guaranteed to be 
free of problems, and it would likely be followed by more 'nice to have' 
features.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Oct  6 08:16:15 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 02:16:15 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7fn8fru8vWsCbvhN=ewZu73DXQ3Pm1Ywg2vWo648-8yMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu>	<5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>
 <CADiSq7fn8fru8vWsCbvhN=ewZu73DXQ3Pm1Ywg2vWo648-8yMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543233AF.5010700@udel.edu>

On 10/6/2014 1:02 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 6 October 2014 07:22, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 10/5/2014 3:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>
>>> I responded on the issue,
>>> and will say more privately.
>>
>> I wrote him and tried to communicate three ideas.
>> 1. Closing issues and responding to new messages, while important, are
>> subsidiary to the primary goal of improving Python.
>> 2. We would prefer more quality and less quantity.
>> 3. We each set our priorites; he should not try to do so for us.
>
> Thanks Terry.
>
> I know Mark is particularly concerned about the "open issues" tally
> and constantly seeks ways to bring that down.

I think I can suggest some better ways.

> Scattergun pinging of
> open issues is one of the easiest, but also one of the ones with a
> high hidden cost in annoying people - for developers, it may mean
> getting dozens of email notifications, for issue submitters, it may
> lead to anticipation of action, only to be disappointed when it's just
> a ping asking for a status update.

Since all aspects of this annoyance were not completely obvious to me, I 
am sure they are not to him.  With the discussion here, I understand 
much better and will try to explain to him.

Terry


From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 13:29:40 2014
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 13:29:40 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mark Lawrence
In-Reply-To: <543233AF.5010700@udel.edu>
References: <1412532930.1112462.175376789.6478E25D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <m0s3g2$ni9$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <1412534826.1118674.175383797.09213B6F@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54319E74.7040406@udel.edu> <5431B68A.1060707@udel.edu>
 <CADiSq7fn8fru8vWsCbvhN=ewZu73DXQ3Pm1Ywg2vWo648-8yMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <543233AF.5010700@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <CACBhJdE1DytU87vq6XSe=3zApy-FB9mUgwGkNjy29m7xuj06iA@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 6, 2014 9:16 AM, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
> On 10/6/2014 1:02 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>
>> On 6 October 2014 07:22, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 10/5/2014 3:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I responded on the issue,
>>>> and will say more privately.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wrote him and tried to communicate three ideas.
>>> 1. Closing issues and responding to new messages, while important, are
>>> subsidiary to the primary goal of improving Python.
>>> 2. We would prefer more quality and less quantity.
>>> 3. We each set our priorites; he should not try to do so for us.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Terry.
>>
>> I know Mark is particularly concerned about the "open issues" tally
>> and constantly seeks ways to bring that down.
>
>
> I think I can suggest some better ways.
>

A while ago I talked with him about this issue, and suggested him to write
down all the "interesting" issues on a list and mail it to python-dev once
a week, instead of pinging the issues individually.

He followed my suggestion and sent the list, but iirc no one replied, so he
probably deemed the approach ineffective and went back to pinging the
issues.

I also suggested him to work on the bug tracker code or on similar projects
-- not sure if he gave that a try yet.

Best Regards,
Ezio Melotti

>
>> Scattergun pinging of
>> open issues is one of the easiest, but also one of the ones with a
>> high hidden cost in annoying people - for developers, it may mean
>> getting dozens of email notifications, for issue submitters, it may
>> lead to anticipation of action, only to be disappointed when it's just
>> a ping asking for a status update.
>
>
> Since all aspects of this annoyance were not completely obvious to me, I
am sure they are not to him.  With the discussion here, I understand much
better and will try to explain to him.
>
> Terry
>
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Mon Oct  6 14:56:41 2014
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 22:56:41 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
Message-ID: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>

Why is Anatoly posting to python-dev? I thought he was banned when he was
banned from the tracker.

I refuse to waste my time trying to reason with him, and I consider the
"just ignore him" approach to be unacceptable, as it leaves him free to
waste everyone *else's* time trying to break through his parochial lack of
empathy.

Regards,
Nick.
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From g.brandl at gmx.net  Mon Oct  6 15:51:06 2014
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 15:51:06 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/06/2014 02:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Why is Anatoly posting to python-dev? I thought he was banned when he was banned
> from the tracker.
> 
> I refuse to waste my time trying to reason with him, and I consider the "just
> ignore him" approach to be unacceptable, as it leaves him free to waste everyone
> *else's* time trying to break through his parochial lack of empathy.

IIRC he's being moderated?

Georg


From larry at hastings.org  Wed Oct  8 10:57:53 2014
From: larry at hastings.org (Larry Hastings)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 01:57:53 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
Message-ID: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>



On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.4 release 
team, I'm pleased to announce the availability of Python 3.4.2. Python 
3.4.2 has many bugfixes and other small improvements over 3.4.1.  One 
new feature for Mac OS X users: the OS X installers are now distributed 
as signed installer package files compatible with the OS X Gatekeeper 
security feature.

You can download it here:

    https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2


May the road rise up to meet you,


//arry/
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From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Oct  8 13:23:54 2014
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:23:54 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
In-Reply-To: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <54351ECA.4020909@jcea.es>

On 08/10/14 10:57, Larry Hastings wrote:
>    https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2

First, congrats everybody!.

Webpage <https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2> says "Python
3.4.2rc1 was released on October 8th, 2014.". Note the "rc1" reference.

Changelog points to rc1 too.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Oct  8 13:43:57 2014
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:43:57 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
In-Reply-To: <54351ECA.4020909@jcea.es>
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org> <54351ECA.4020909@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <5435237D.6060502@jcea.es>

On 08/10/14 13:23, Jesus Cea wrote:
> On 08/10/14 10:57, Larry Hastings wrote:
>>    https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2
> 
> First, congrats everybody!.
> 
> Webpage <https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2> says "Python
> 3.4.2rc1 was released on October 8th, 2014.". Note the "rc1" reference.
> 
> Changelog points to rc1 too.

In <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/> changelog
points to RC1.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From antoine at python.org  Wed Oct  8 18:34:02 2014
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:34:02 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Commit rights for Robert Collins
In-Reply-To: <86E9928A-FF5D-46F8-9CDC-54192583E89B@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <541FF11F.9040409@voidspace.org.uk>
 <20140923183146.2F9EB250DE6@webabinitio.net>
 <A0773B2B-F11C-4B6F-BA16-0F4A56D50E59@voidspace.org.uk>
 <1412401526.657853.175031445.40F37009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <86E9928A-FF5D-46F8-9CDC-54192583E89B@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <5435677A.1080704@python.org>


Le 04/10/2014 07:47, Michael Foord a ?crit :
> 
> On 4 Oct 2014, at 11:15, Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org> wrote:
> 
>> hgaccounts at python.org
>>
> 
> Thanks. I've forwarded this to Robert.

For the record, he hasn't contacted us yet.

Regards

Antoine.

From nad at acm.org  Wed Oct  8 20:12:23 2014
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:12:23 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org> <54351ECA.4020909@jcea.es>
 <5435237D.6060502@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <nad-5E58F2.11122308102014@news.gmane.org>

In article <5435237D.6060502 at jcea.es>, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
> On 08/10/14 13:23, Jesus Cea wrote:
> > Webpage <https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2> says "Python
> > 3.4.2rc1 was released on October 8th, 2014.". Note the "rc1" reference.
> > Changelog points to rc1 too.
> In <https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/> changelog
> points to RC1.

Thanks, both are now fixed.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct  8 20:39:50 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:39:50 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
In-Reply-To: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <m140dq$sdu$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/8/2014 4:57 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
>
> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.4 release
> team, I'm pleased to announce the availability of Python 3.4.2. Python
> 3.4.2 has many bugfixes and other small improvements over 3.4.1.  One
> new feature for Mac OS X users: the OS X installers are now distributed
> as signed installer package files compatible with the OS X Gatekeeper
> security feature.
>
> You can download it here:
>
>     https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2

I do not see the point of having nearly duplicate pages:

A. https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2
B. https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/

A does not have not have downloads, but only a link to B, which is a 
copy of A with the link to B replaced by the actual downloads.  Can we 
get the web site people (and/or our release process) to remove this 
annoying redundancy and indirection?  This is one of the things made 
worse by the supposed upgrade.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy


From nad at acm.org  Wed Oct  8 20:48:57 2014
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 11:48:57 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org> <m140dq$sdu$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-24F5A5.11485708102014@news.gmane.org>

In article <m140dq$sdu$1 at ger.gmane.org>, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> 
wrote:
> I do not see the point of having nearly duplicate pages:
> 
> A. https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2
> B. https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/
> 
> A does not have not have downloads, but only a link to B, which is a 
> copy of A with the link to B replaced by the actual downloads.  Can we 
> get the web site people (and/or our release process) to remove this 
> annoying redundancy and indirection?  This is one of the things made 
> worse by the supposed upgrade.

There are several open issues on the web site tracker about downloads.  
The most relevant is probably this one:

https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/275

I suggest adding to the discussion there.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org


From g.brandl at gmx.net  Wed Oct  8 20:54:43 2014
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:54:43 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
In-Reply-To: <m140dq$sdu$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org> <m140dq$sdu$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <m1419j$7oj$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 10/08/2014 08:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/8/2014 4:57 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>>
>>
>> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.4 release
>> team, I'm pleased to announce the availability of Python 3.4.2. Python
>> 3.4.2 has many bugfixes and other small improvements over 3.4.1.  One
>> new feature for Mac OS X users: the OS X installers are now distributed
>> as signed installer package files compatible with the OS X Gatekeeper
>> security feature.
>>
>> You can download it here:
>>
>>     https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2
> 
> I do not see the point of having nearly duplicate pages:
> 
> A. https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2
> B. https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-342/

A. can just be removed. It is not necessary to have it anymore.

Georg


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Oct  8 20:24:22 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:24:22 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASE] Python 3.4.2 is now available
In-Reply-To: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>
References: <5434FC91.9070306@hastings.org>
Message-ID: <54358156.8090002@udel.edu>

On 10/8/2014 4:57 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>
>
> On behalf of the Python development community and the Python 3.4 release
> team, I'm pleased to announce the availability of Python 3.4.2. Python
> 3.4.2 has many bugfixes and other small improvements over 3.4.1.  One
> new feature for Mac OS X users: the OS X installers are now distributed
> as signed installer package files compatible with the OS X Gatekeeper
> security feature.
>
> You can download it here:
>
>     https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.4.2

This links to .../3.4.1


From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu Oct  9 12:17:48 2014
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 20:17:48 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Commit rights for Robert Collins
In-Reply-To: <5435677A.1080704@python.org>
References: <541FF11F.9040409@voidspace.org.uk>
 <20140923183146.2F9EB250DE6@webabinitio.net>
 <A0773B2B-F11C-4B6F-BA16-0F4A56D50E59@voidspace.org.uk>
 <1412401526.657853.175031445.40F37009@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <86E9928A-FF5D-46F8-9CDC-54192583E89B@voidspace.org.uk>
 <5435677A.1080704@python.org>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fyBv-30zHsqaRGa1q0c+R1Pco7OY-3ywbKg+W5Hx0Gig@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 Oct 2014 02:34, "Antoine Pitrou" <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
>
> Le 04/10/2014 07:47, Michael Foord a ?crit :
> >
> > On 4 Oct 2014, at 11:15, Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org> wrote:
> >
> >> hgaccounts at python.org
> >>
> >
> > Thanks. I've forwarded this to Robert.
>
> For the record, he hasn't contacted us yet.

I suspect things may have been somewhat hectic at HP in recent weeks :)

Cheers,
Nick.

P.S. For folks that don't follow the business press: on top of various HP
Helion related updates, HP recently acquired Eucalyptus, and has now
announced that it will be splitting into two separate companies. It's just
a guess, but it wouldn't surprise me if all that has been somewhat
distracting for the OpenStack folks that work there.

>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
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From georg at python.org  Sun Oct 12 09:38:31 2014
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 09:38:31 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.2.6, Python 3.3.6
Message-ID: <543A2FF7.5060207@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce
the release of Python 3.2.6 and 3.3.6.  Both are security-fix releases,
which are provided source-only on python.org.

The list of security-related issues fixed in the releases is given in
the changelogs:

    https://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/v3.2.6/Misc/NEWS
    https://hg.python.org/cpython/raw-file/v3.3.6/Misc/NEWS

To download the releases visit one of:

    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-326/
    https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-336/

These are production versions, please report any bugs to

     http://bugs.python.org/

Enjoy!

- -- 
Georg Brandl, Release Manager
georg at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and contributors)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2

iEYEARECAAYFAlQ6L/cACgkQN9GcIYhpnLBxIwCeLqjXeIOxGA2vkjbkN5Ic6j2u
7WcAoKgFaB4drMX5ZOVUJ4VLyNTcfycN
=KLlw
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From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Oct 15 22:22:45 2014
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 22:22:45 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mercurial 3.1 and 2.6 branches are not
	"inactive"
Message-ID: <543ED795.3010403@jcea.es>

Mercurial branches 3.1 and 2.6 are not "inactive". They are not "merged":

"""
[jcea at babylon5 cpython]$ hg branches
default                    93408:fd658692db3a
2.7                        93384:7ba47bbfe38d
3.1                        90584:c7b93519807a
2.6                        90420:23a60d89dbd4
3.4                        93406:5fd481150b35 (inactive)
3.3                        93403:cda907a02a80 (inactive)
3.2                        93299:eac54f7a8018 (inactive)
"""

I guess they should be "merged" (or "null merged") to 2.7 and to 3.2,
3.3, 3.4 and default. I can do it myself, if you think it is appropiate.

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From eliben at gmail.com  Wed Oct 15 22:25:18 2014
From: eliben at gmail.com (Eli Bendersky)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:25:18 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
In-Reply-To: <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAF-Rda97dRQDzi1eu6S9QLGvmvGQs9NOFv3yu4H0YOoxDDQS=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Georg Brandl <g.brandl at gmx.net> wrote:

> On 10/06/2014 02:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> > Why is Anatoly posting to python-dev? I thought he was banned when he
> was banned
> > from the tracker.
> >
> > I refuse to waste my time trying to reason with him, and I consider the
> "just
> > ignore him" approach to be unacceptable, as it leaves him free to waste
> everyone
> > *else's* time trying to break through his parochial lack of empathy.
>
> IIRC he's being moderated?
>

Yes. When I have some time to do pydev moderation, I usually only let
Anatoly's emails through if they are strictly content-oriented and carry
information. This isn't always easy to discern though, and I imagine other
moderators may be burdened by him imposing extra work.

Eli
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From nad at acm.org  Wed Oct 15 22:47:57 2014
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:47:57 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Mercurial 3.1 and 2.6 branches are not
	"inactive"
References: <543ED795.3010403@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <nad-807CD5.13475715102014@news.gmane.org>

In article <543ED795.3010403 at jcea.es>, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
> Mercurial branches 3.1 and 2.6 are not "inactive". They are not "merged":
> 
> """
> [jcea at babylon5 cpython]$ hg branches
> default                    93408:fd658692db3a
> 2.7                        93384:7ba47bbfe38d
> 3.1                        90584:c7b93519807a
> 2.6                        90420:23a60d89dbd4
> 3.4                        93406:5fd481150b35 (inactive)
> 3.3                        93403:cda907a02a80 (inactive)
> 3.2                        93299:eac54f7a8018 (inactive)
> """
> 
> I guess they should be "merged" (or "null merged") to 2.7 and to 3.2,
> 3.3, 3.4 and default. I can do it myself, if you think it is appropiate.

Since both 2.6 and 3.1 are now retired, their branches should be marked 
as closed at this point, like earlier retired releases.  Barry?  
Benjamin?

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Oct 15 22:49:06 2014
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:49:06 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
In-Reply-To: <CAF-Rda97dRQDzi1eu6S9QLGvmvGQs9NOFv3yu4H0YOoxDDQS=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAF-Rda97dRQDzi1eu6S9QLGvmvGQs9NOFv3yu4H0YOoxDDQS=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543EDDC2.10509@stoneleaf.us>

On 10/15/2014 01:25 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>> On 10/06/2014 02:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>> Why is Anatoly posting to python-dev? I thought he was banned when he was banned
>>> from the tracker.
>>>
>>> I refuse to waste my time trying to reason with him, and I consider the "just
>>> ignore him" approach to be unacceptable, as it leaves him free to waste everyone
>>> *else's* time trying to break through his parochial lack of empathy.
>>
>> IIRC he's being moderated?
>
> Yes. When I have some time to do pydev moderation, I usually only let Anatoly's emails through if they are strictly
> content-oriented and carry information. This isn't always easy to discern though, and I imagine other moderators may be
> burdened by him imposing extra work.

I've been promoted to list-moderator for two other Python lists to help deal with Anatoly's posts -- one more would not 
be a burden.

--
~Ethan~

From antoine at python.org  Wed Oct 15 22:54:38 2014
From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 22:54:38 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
In-Reply-To: <543EDDC2.10509@stoneleaf.us>
References: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAF-Rda97dRQDzi1eu6S9QLGvmvGQs9NOFv3yu4H0YOoxDDQS=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <543EDDC2.10509@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <543EDF0E.40104@python.org>


Le 15/10/2014 22:49, Ethan Furman a ?crit :
> On 10/15/2014 01:25 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>>> On 10/06/2014 02:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>>> Why is Anatoly posting to python-dev? I thought he was banned when he was banned
>>>> from the tracker.
>>>>
>>>> I refuse to waste my time trying to reason with him, and I consider the "just
>>>> ignore him" approach to be unacceptable, as it leaves him free to waste everyone
>>>> *else's* time trying to break through his parochial lack of empathy.
>>>
>>> IIRC he's being moderated?
>>
>> Yes. When I have some time to do pydev moderation, I usually only let Anatoly's emails through if they are strictly
>> content-oriented and carry information. This isn't always easy to discern though, and I imagine other moderators may be
>> burdened by him imposing extra work.
> 
> I've been promoted to list-moderator for two other Python lists to help deal with Anatoly's posts -- one more would not 
> be a burden.

If the burden is mostly handling Anatoly's email, perhaps we should stop
bothering and ban him for good? It doesn't sound right for someone so
little constructive to eat up so much of our resources.

What do you think?

Regards

Antoine.

From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 15 22:58:46 2014
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 16:58:46 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Mercurial 3.1 and 2.6 branches are not
 "inactive"
In-Reply-To: <nad-807CD5.13475715102014@news.gmane.org>
References: <543ED795.3010403@jcea.es>
 <nad-807CD5.13475715102014@news.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20141015165846.2b7a70f1@limelight.wooz.org>

On Oct 15, 2014, at 01:47 PM, Ned Deily wrote:

>Since both 2.6 and 3.1 are now retired, their branches should be marked 
>as closed at this point, like earlier retired releases.  Barry?  
>Benjamin?

2.6 for sure.  I don't know what actually has to happen to mark them closed,
but there will not be another 2.6 release.

Cheers,
-Barry

From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Oct 15 23:05:04 2014
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:05:04 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
In-Reply-To: <543EDF0E.40104@python.org>
References: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAF-Rda97dRQDzi1eu6S9QLGvmvGQs9NOFv3yu4H0YOoxDDQS=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <543EDDC2.10509@stoneleaf.us> <543EDF0E.40104@python.org>
Message-ID: <543EE180.1060407@stoneleaf.us>

On 10/15/2014 01:54 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le 15/10/2014 22:49, Ethan Furman a ??crit :
>>
>> I've been promoted to list-moderator for two other Python lists to help
>> deal with Anatoly's posts -- one more would not be a burden.
>
> If the burden is mostly handling Anatoly's email, perhaps we should stop
> bothering and ban him for good? It doesn't sound right for someone so
> little constructive to eat up so much of our resources.
>
> What do you think?

If our infrastructure can handle an outright ban I think that would be the best course of action.  If the infrastructure 
requires a live body to click on Discard... well, my talents are up to that task.  ;)

--
~Ethan~

From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Oct 15 23:14:13 2014
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 23:14:13 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Mercurial 3.1 and 2.6 branches are not
	"inactive"
In-Reply-To: <20141015165846.2b7a70f1@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <543ED795.3010403@jcea.es>
 <nad-807CD5.13475715102014@news.gmane.org>
 <20141015165846.2b7a70f1@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <543EE3A5.9040707@jcea.es>

On 15/10/14 22:58, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2014, at 01:47 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
> 
>> Since both 2.6 and 3.1 are now retired, their branches should be marked 
>> as closed at this point, like earlier retired releases.  Barry?  
>> Benjamin?
> 
> 2.6 for sure.  I don't know what actually has to happen to mark them closed,
> but there will not be another 2.6 release.

Looks like touching 2.6 is forbidden:

"""
jcea at ubuntu:cpython$ hg up -r 2.6
jcea at ubuntu:cpython$ hg commit --close-branch -m "2.6 is no longer
maintained"
jcea at ubuntu:cpython$ hg push
pushing to ssh://hg at hg.python.org/cpython/
searching for changes
remote: adding changesets
remote: adding manifests
remote: adding file changes
remote: added 1 changesets with 0 changes to 0 files (-1 heads)
remote:  - changeset 25b79170c319 on disallowed branch '2.6'!
remote: * Please strip the offending changeset(s)
remote: * and re-do them, if needed, on another branch!
remote: transaction abort!
remote: rollback completed
remote: abort: pretxnchangegroup.checkbranch hook failed
"""

If configuring mercurial HOOKS to disallow branches is documented
somewhere in the release manager guide, it should do the step of closing
the branch first :-).

-- 
Jes?s Cea Avi?n                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
Twitter: @jcea                        _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org  _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz

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From nad at acm.org  Thu Oct 16 00:16:41 2014
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:16:41 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Mercurial 3.1 and 2.6 branches are not
	"inactive"
References: <543ED795.3010403@jcea.es>
 <nad-807CD5.13475715102014@news.gmane.org>
 <20141015165846.2b7a70f1@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <nad-FA82C5.15164115102014@news.gmane.org>

In article <20141015165846.2b7a70f1 at limelight.wooz.org>,
 Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> 2.6 for sure.  I don't know what actually has to happen to mark them closed,
> but there will not be another 2.6 release.

Benjamin has taken care of closing both the 2.6 and 3.1 branches. RIP

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org


From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 16 05:44:06 2014
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 13:44:06 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly (again)
In-Reply-To: <543EDF0E.40104@python.org>
References: <CADiSq7eV+FD0oGfmDF-=7RU+4X7tvumvoQcgVsnhUtSP0N1H_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <m0u6oa$gej$1@ger.gmane.org>
 <CAF-Rda97dRQDzi1eu6S9QLGvmvGQs9NOFv3yu4H0YOoxDDQS=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <543EDDC2.10509@stoneleaf.us> <543EDF0E.40104@python.org>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7dZhP8O5cKM2ubP1rJvFjr=JSMMc1D+OwZfCf0BvP2tMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 October 2014 06:54, Antoine Pitrou <antoine at python.org> wrote:
>
> Le 15/10/2014 22:49, Ethan Furman a ?crit :
>> On 10/15/2014 01:25 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>>>> On 10/06/2014 02:56 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>>>> Why is Anatoly posting to python-dev? I thought he was banned when he was banned
>>>>> from the tracker.
>>>>>
>>>>> I refuse to waste my time trying to reason with him, and I consider the "just
>>>>> ignore him" approach to be unacceptable, as it leaves him free to waste everyone
>>>>> *else's* time trying to break through his parochial lack of empathy.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC he's being moderated?
>>>
>>> Yes. When I have some time to do pydev moderation, I usually only let Anatoly's emails through if they are strictly
>>> content-oriented and carry information. This isn't always easy to discern though, and I imagine other moderators may be
>>> burdened by him imposing extra work.
>>
>> I've been promoted to list-moderator for two other Python lists to help deal with Anatoly's posts -- one more would not
>> be a burden.
>
> If the burden is mostly handling Anatoly's email, perhaps we should stop
> bothering and ban him for good? It doesn't sound right for someone so
> little constructive to eat up so much of our resources.
>
> What do you think?

I know at least in my case, even if the posts get through the mailing
list moderation, they'll just hit my personal delete filter (it's
generally the replies that get my attention, not his own messages).

I only brought it up this time because his initial "yay, well done"
message congratulating David on completing the migration to using
"bytes like object" in error messages was then entirely undone by a
pointless screed complaining that the formal *definition* of a bytes
like object is somewhat complicated (which, while an accurate
complaint, is also not something that can realistically be changed any
time soon).

It's that fundamental inability to do a meaningful cost/benefit
analysis that earned Anatoly a place in my delete filter in the first
place, and I haven't seen any change in that respect over the past
several years. Anatoly can behave reasonably if you're doing what he
asks (or just something he agrees with), but he goes off the deep end
as soon as you tell him "no, that's not worth the hassle", or even
"that might be interesting, how do you plan to make it happen?".

"Those that do the work, make the rules" is one of the fundamental
precepts of the open source development model, and interacting with
him over a long period of time (including a few years where I was
actively attempting to coach him towards contributing productively)
has convinced me that Anatoly doesn't accept that as a legitimate
constraint on his suggestions.

The long history of conflict between him and both the PSF and the
CPython core development team then follows from that as he continues
to try to give orders without providing any incentive or clear
rationale for anyone else to voluntarily contribute the time needed to
do what he suggests.

Continuing to expose contributors (and potential contributors) to an
individual that clearly doesn't place any value whatsoever on their
contributions is something I've objected to for a long time, so it
shouldn't come as any surprise that I'm in favour of just allowing the
list moderators to set his posts to auto-discard, without even reading
them first :)

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From doko at debian.org  Fri Oct 17 17:04:18 2014
From: doko at debian.org (Matthias Klose)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 17:04:18 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed (at least)
	2.7.9 NEWS entries
Message-ID: <54412FF2.90300@debian.org>

The commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed almost all NEWS entries which were added
after the 2.7.8 release.  I didn't check for other files, but maybe somebody
more familiar with this commit/merge should have a look.

Matthias


From doko at ubuntu.com  Fri Oct 17 16:55:48 2014
From: doko at ubuntu.com (Matthias Klose)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:55:48 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed (at least)
	2.7.9 NEWS entries
Message-ID: <54412DF4.7040001@ubuntu.com>

The commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed almost all NEWS entries which were added
after the 2.7.8 release.  I didn't check for other files, but maybe somebody
more familiar with this commit/merge should have a look.

Matthias

From benjamin at python.org  Fri Oct 17 17:31:27 2014
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:31:27 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed (at
 least) 2.7.9 NEWS entries
In-Reply-To: <54412DF4.7040001@ubuntu.com>
References: <54412DF4.7040001@ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <1413559887.2729449.180206397.2C0DB331@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014, at 10:55, Matthias Klose wrote:
> The commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed almost all NEWS entries which were
> added
> after the 2.7.8 release.  I didn't check for other files, but maybe
> somebody
> more familiar with this commit/merge should have a look.

I've just pushed a commit fixing up NEWS.

From cf.natali at gmail.com  Sat Oct 18 00:26:39 2014
From: cf.natali at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Charles=2DFran=E7ois_Natali?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 23:26:39 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed (at
 least) 2.7.9 NEWS entries
In-Reply-To: <1413559887.2729449.180206397.2C0DB331@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <54412DF4.7040001@ubuntu.com>
 <1413559887.2729449.180206397.2C0DB331@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAH_1eM0LaMe+2vkFpoS8pHtMswnBwR54Bceb9_TGew0H4ubo6w@mail.gmail.com>

2014-10-17 16:31 GMT+01:00 Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org>:
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014, at 10:55, Matthias Klose wrote:
>> The commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed almost all NEWS entries which were
>> added
>> after the 2.7.8 release.  I didn't check for other files, but maybe
>> somebody
>> more familiar with this commit/merge should have a look.
>
> I've just pushed a commit fixing up NEWS.

Sorry about that, I don't know what happened.
Benjamin, thanks for taking care of that!

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Oct 18 01:47:46 2014
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 19:47:46 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed (at
 least) 2.7.9 NEWS entries
In-Reply-To: <CAH_1eM0LaMe+2vkFpoS8pHtMswnBwR54Bceb9_TGew0H4ubo6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54412DF4.7040001@ubuntu.com>
 <1413559887.2729449.180206397.2C0DB331@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <CAH_1eM0LaMe+2vkFpoS8pHtMswnBwR54Bceb9_TGew0H4ubo6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5441AAA2.20208@udel.edu>

On 10/17/2014 6:26 PM, Charles-Fran?ois Natali wrote:
> 2014-10-17 16:31 GMT+01:00 Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org>:
>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014, at 10:55, Matthias Klose wrote:
>>> The commit 93025:1c2c44313408 removed almost all NEWS entries which were
>>> added
>>> after the 2.7.8 release.  I didn't check for other files, but maybe
>>> somebody
>>> more familiar with this commit/merge should have a look.
>>
>> I've just pushed a commit fixing up NEWS.
>
> Sorry about that, I don't know what happened.

I believe that you were merging heads: see

https://docs.python.org/devguide/faq.html#i-got-abort-push-creates-new-remote-heads-while-pushing-what-do-i-do

 From the dag, it appears "You forgot to run hg pull and/or hg up before 
committing" so that your repository was stale.  From the merge 
changeset, is appears you forget " While not strictly necessary, it is 
highly recommended to switch to the other head before merging." If you 
had, "This way you will be merging only your changeset with the rest," 
the head merge changeset would have been more or less the same as your 
original changeset, instead of what it is. "and in case of conflicts it 
will be a lot easier."  I suspect your addition to Misc/NEWS conficted 
with at least one in the other head.  hg does not always do NEWS merges 
properly even when there is no conflict.  One should check NEWS diffs 
after a merge.  (So one should pull just before editing NEWS and then 
pull again before committing, so there will only be a pull-merge 
conflict if someone pushes after the first pull, while one is editing.)

If you had been merging your new head, with one small NEWS addition, 
into the old head, and still had a problem getting a proper NEWS diff, 
you would have had the option of reverting NEWS to the old head, editing 
the new entry in by hand, and declaring the conflict resolved.  I 
routinely have to do this when merging Idle NEWS entries from 3.4 to 3.5.

--
Terry