[python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges

[R. David Murray]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:16:32 -0800, Ned Deily <nad at acm.org> wrote:
> 
> On Nov 29, 2013, at 12:12 , Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> 
> > The question is, how effective will the alternative solution
> > (banning him) be? I worry that it's just going to make things worse.
> 
> I think that is a legitimate concern and likely outcome.
> 
> > The key thing to understand here is that you can't win an argument
> > with Anatoly. You can only avoid *getting* into one.
> 
> Right.  We can't change other people's behavior.  We can at best
> encourage change.  In this case, I'm doubtful that banning would serve
> as an encouragement.  I understand the many of us get annoyed and
> frustrated by his comments and the multiple re-opening of the tracker
> issue thing the other day was certainly uncalled-for behavior on his
> part.  But it was likely fueled in part by people's reaction to his

Since his multiple re-openings really are a trigger for us, one possible
mitigation (*not* solution) would be to set up a special tracker account
type just for Anatoly that does not have authorization to edit any
tracker fields once the issue is created.

This is a half-joking suggestion, but only half.

> comments.  I think the more important issue here is not his behavior
> but our behavior in how we react to behavior like this.  *That* is
> something we can reasonably try to change.  Why is it that we find him
> so annoying, enough to advocate fairly drastic measures like banning?

He does not evidence any respect for the community, and so we not only
get defensive, we want to attack back.

> There have been and will be others who behave similarly.  I don't
> propose to try to answer that question: it's one that each of us will
> have our own answer to.

I think that if he is not banned it is important to call him out on
his actions *politely* when his tone is insulting instead of polite, to
indicate to the rest of the community that we value a polite environment.
Other people have changed their behavior when we have done this.
Anatoly has not.  But the message to the rest of the community makes it
worth doing even when Anatoly himself doesn't change.

However...ignoring him can be tough.  Engaging his *valid* points without
letting emotion color the interaction is tougher.  Calling him out on
his bad behavior without letting the emotion in is the toughest.

So yeah, he's a problem no matter which way you slice it.  As Ned
says maybe doing our best to set a good example is the best course.

I'm not against banning him myself, but I'm not particularly for it,
either.  I don't know *what* the best course is here.

--David

PS: Maybe we could set up some mailing list software that, every time
Anatoly starts a new thread, and periodically during it, it posts
an "Anatoly FAQ"? 

Yes, that one *is* 100% a joke.  Or at least 99%.