From brett at python.org Sun Dec 1 01:16:06 2013 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 19:16:06 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <20131130111011.7b1d663a@anarchist> References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

<20131130111011.7b1d663a@anarchist> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for > >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists > >where his presence is considered disruptive?). > > Done, for techtonik at gmail.com on all three lists. > For python-ideas, if someone wants to allow Anatoly's posts through then I will happily make them an admin of the list, but I have to just admit I can't be trusted to do it objectively and I don't want Anatoly to receive unjust treatment; there's just too much history after I tried to point out how he was being rude years ago and ended up with him attacking the PSF which I took personally. I'll ask Titus if he thinks he's up for it but I don't want to force him to shoulder the entire burden if doesn't think he can do it objectively either. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brett at python.org Sun Dec 1 01:22:06 2013 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 19:22:06 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <1385851762.2339.0.camel@fsol> References:

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<20131130111011.7b1d663a@anarchist> <1385851762.2339.0.camel@fsol> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On sam., 2013-11-30 at 11:10 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On Nov 30, 2013, at 05:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > > >- flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for > > >python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists > > >where his presence is considered disruptive?). > > > > Done, for techtonik at gmail.com on all three lists. > > Thank you very much for stepping up, Barry and Nick. > Thanks from me as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ncoghlan at gmail.com Sun Dec 1 03:12:08 2013 From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 12:12:08 +1000 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

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Message-ID: On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky wrote: > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose: >> >> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for >> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists >> where his presence is considered disruptive?). >> >> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on >> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his >> behalf. >> >> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is >> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their >> offers of assistance). > > > This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be > private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm both > Anatoly and Python. OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue). I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on the meta-tracker as well). Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia From guido at python.org Sun Dec 1 03:33:24 2013 From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:33:24 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

Message-ID: Nick, Thanks for doing this emotionally grueling task. --Guido On Saturday, November 30, 2013, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky > > wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan > > wrote: > >> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose: > >> > >> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for > >> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists > >> where his presence is considered disruptive?). > >> > >> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on > >> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his > >> behalf. > >> > >> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is > >> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their > >> offers of assistance). > > > > > > This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be > > private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm > both > > Anatoly and Python. > > OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio > (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also > bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they > know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue). > > I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move > his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on > the meta-tracker as well). > > Regards, > Nick. > > -- > Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, > Australia > -- --Guido van Rossum (on iPad) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdmurray at bitdance.com Sun Dec 1 06:55:36 2013 From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 00:55:36 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

Message-ID: <20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:12:08 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > I don't appear to have the necessary tracker access to actually move > his account to read-only status, though (this change should be made on > the meta-tracker as well). You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin will need to handle that one.) On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left when you remove all the roles from a user. I did notice the other day that email to the tracker still seems to work for new issues (I think it was a new issue, I don't remember the sequence of events for sure), so we may in fact still need to create a new role for this situation. --David From g.brandl at gmx.net Sun Dec 1 08:52:55 2013 From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 08:52:55 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

Message-ID: Am 01.12.2013 03:12, schrieb Nick Coghlan: > On 1 December 2013 01:49, Eli Bendersky wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> OK, moving on to mechanics, here's what I would like to propose: >>> >>> - flip his moderation bit on the mailing lists, at least for >>> python-dev, python-ideas and distutils-sig (are there any other lists >>> where his presence is considered disruptive?). >>> >>> - revoke his tracker privileges. If he would like something done on >>> the tracker, he can ask Guido or Ezio to make the change on his >>> behalf. >>> >>> I'm willing to be the bearer of bad news, and let Anatoly know this is >>> being done, and cc' Guido and Ezio (as I'll also pass along their >>> offers of assistance). >> >> >> This plan sounds good. I agree with Alex that the initial email has to be >> private. There's no need here for a public humiliation that will harm both >> Anatoly and Python. > > OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio > (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also > bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they > know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue). Thanks! I'm sorry to have spawned such a long and draining discussion, but I'm convinced it had to be done at some point. cheers, Georg From ncoghlan at gmail.com Sun Dec 1 12:06:54 2013 From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 21:06:54 +1000 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

<20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> Message-ID: On 1 December 2013 15:55, R. David Murray wrote: > You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I > think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin > will need to handle that one.) Thanks - I've now removed his User role access on the main tracker. > On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left > when you remove all the roles from a user. I did notice the other day > that email to the tracker still seems to work for new issues (I think > it was a new issue, I don't remember the sequence of events for sure), > so we may in fact still need to create a new role for this situation. We'll try "no roles assigned" for now. I don't expect Anatoly to be actively malicious about this - I still believe he's genuinely trying to help. Unfortunately, his getting obsessed with things that are either tedious to fix or just incredibly hard to change and then refusing to take "no" for an answer is so incredibly draining for other community members that it seemed necessary to send a much stronger "please stop trying to help, as you're doing more harm than good" message. It's a terrible thing to have to say to someone, but at this point I'm more worried about the effect on everyone else (including me) of his continued participation than I am about the impact explicit exclusion will have on him :( Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan at gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia From martin at v.loewis.de Sun Dec 1 17:55:06 2013 From: martin at v.loewis.de (martin at v.loewis.de) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 17:55:06 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org> References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org> Message-ID: <20131201175506.Horde.MdK303FR6HcSFlWRQlKIZA4@webmail.df.eu> Quoting Ned Deily : >> You can't fix people, but you can prevent them from actually being >> harmful. > > The thing is it's a technical solution to a social problem. No, that's not true. The ban itself is a social reaction to a social problem. The technical reaction is only to actually enforce the ban. I have personally banned two people so far from "python-dev", and at least in one case, the ban wasn't actually enforced, but honored nevertheless. It *would* be a technical solution if the ban wasn't actually communicated, but only implemented (something which is quite common in RL, e.g. when people change the locks on their doors to lock out their former partners) > the former tend to be all that effective for the latter. And I > think reasonable people can disagree about the degree of > harmfulness. I personally don't see his behavior, in and of itself, > as all that harmful. I *do* see the negative reaction it provokes > as being harmful. Clearly, it bothers people and that is > disruptive. But it would be a whole lot less disruptive if we > didn't let it be, e.g. by just letting it go and ignoring it. Since nobody mentioned it this time (or since I missed if somebody did), I'll mention the "poisonous people" talk from Collins-Sussman/Fitzpatrick): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52kFL8zVoM I said this several years ago, and I still believe that anatoly is a poisonous person, in the sense of this talk. Several strategies just don't work here, e.g. trying to win an argument with anatoly. A strategy that I believe that *also* doesn't work is to let "the community" ignore him. In a free software project, fluctuation is just too high to make this work. It takes several years (for some of us) to recognize that ignoring him entirely is the only reasonable personal reaction. If we wanted to effectively make it work, we would have to educate every single contributor "don't talk to anatoly, and don't respond if he is talking to you". This can't work in the large scale. >> If python-list is a troll magnet, that's a pity, but how is that >> relevant to the *development community*? > > It's relevant because python-list is yet another forum hosted by the > PSF via python.org mailing lists and is viewed as part of the > broader Python community as a whole. If we propose to ban someone > from python-list, along with other lists, that raises the question > of what standards are being used. I don't think anybody should be banned from python-list; I think talk is just about "python-dev" (including all core cpython infrastructure). > It is a problem. And choosing to not participate is a perfectly > rational and legitimate response. But it doesn't necessarily follow > that banning someone is a better response. I think it is. Based on past experience, it would be temporarily anyway, and it may buy us a year or so of mental peace. Regards, Martin From martin at v.loewis.de Sun Dec 1 18:11:47 2013 From: martin at v.loewis.de (martin at v.loewis.de) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:11:47 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

<20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> Message-ID: <20131201181147.Horde.2kiH4tsv3rb04RqJ_L602w1@webmail.df.eu> Quoting "R. David Murray" : > On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left > when you remove all the roles from a user. I did notice the other day > that email to the tracker still seems to work for new issues (I think > it was a new issue, I don't remember the sequence of events for sure), > so we may in fact still need to create a new role for this situation. I just experimented with this a bit. Removing the User role will also mean that you lose the ability to log in ("You are not allowed to login"); I think it might be better to give the "Anonymous" role (meaning that it makes no difference whether you are logged in or not). Regards, Martin From rdmurray at bitdance.com Sun Dec 1 18:46:05 2013 From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:46:05 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <20131201181147.Horde.2kiH4tsv3rb04RqJ_L602w1@webmail.df.eu> References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

<20 131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> <20131201181147.Horde.2kiH4tsv3rb04RqJ_L602w1@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: <20131201174606.2D8F6250947@webabinitio.net> On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:11:47 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de wrote: > > Quoting "R. David Murray" : > > > On the other hand, I'm not actually sure what kind of access is left > > when you remove all the roles from a user. I did notice the other day > > that email to the tracker still seems to work for new issues (I think > > it was a new issue, I don't remember the sequence of events for sure), > > so we may in fact still need to create a new role for this situation. > > I just experimented with this a bit. Removing the User role will also mean > that you lose the ability to log in ("You are not allowed to login"); > I think it might be better to give the "Anonymous" role (meaning that > it makes no difference whether you are logged in or not). That makes sense to me. Done. --David From martin at v.loewis.de Sun Dec 1 19:29:25 2013 From: martin at v.loewis.de (martin at v.loewis.de) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:29:25 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> References:

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<20131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> Message-ID: <20131201192925.Horde.uHSXZGaxbVosbwYOoB7r2w1@webmail.df.eu> Quoting "R. David Murray" : > You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I > think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin > will need to handle that one.) I've restricted anatoly's access there; I've also given you the Admin role on that tracker. Regards, Martin From nad at acm.org Sun Dec 1 19:47:51 2013 From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 10:47:51 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

Message-ID: <7597ADA0-DF8D-4FB8-B8DB-D863373D1F82@acm.org> On Nov 30, 2013, at 23:52 , Georg Brandl wrote: > Am 01.12.2013 03:12, schrieb Nick Coghlan: >> OK, I've sent the notification to Anatoly. I cc'ed Guido and Ezio >> (since I included their offer to mediate tracker access) and also >> bcc'ed the list admins for the three currently affected lists (so they >> know why his posts start appearing in the moderation queue). > Thanks! I'm sorry to have spawned such a long and draining discussion, > but I'm convinced it had to be done at some point. And I'm sorry to have prolonged the discussion although I do appreciate the comments on what I wrote. While it has been painful, I think the way this decision was reached is praiseworthy. The discussion was open, serious, deeply-felt, yet respectful to all - in other words, in the best traditions of the Python community. Thank you all and a particular thank you to Nick. --Ned -- Ned Deily nad at acm.org -- [] From ethan at stoneleaf.us Sun Dec 1 22:03:14 2013 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 13:03:14 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

<20131130111011.7b1d663a@anarchist> Message-ID: <529BA412.2010409@stoneleaf.us> On 11/30/2013 04:16 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > For python-ideas, if someone wants to allow Anatoly's posts through then I will happily make them an admin of the list, > but I have to just admit I can't be trusted to do it objectively and I don't want Anatoly to receive unjust treatment; > there's just too much history after I tried to point out how he was being rude years ago and ended up with him attacking > the PSF which I took personally. I'll ask Titus if he thinks he's up for it but I don't want to force him to shoulder > the entire burden if doesn't think he can do it objectively either. I can do it. -- ~Ethan~ From rdmurray at bitdance.com Sun Dec 1 22:41:02 2013 From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 16:41:02 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: <20131201192925.Horde.uHSXZGaxbVosbwYOoB7r2w1@webmail.df.eu> References:

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<20 131201055536.D047825003E@webabinitio.net> <20131201192925.Horde.uHSXZGaxbVosbwYOoB7r2w1@webmail.df.eu> Message-ID: <20131201214103.44B23250934@webabinitio.net> On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 19:29:25 +0100, martin at v.loewis.de wrote: > > Quoting "R. David Murray" : > > > You should have the necessary privileges on the tracker now, since I > > think you ought to. (I don't have them on the meta-tracker, so Martin > > will need to handle that one.) > > I've restricted anatoly's access there; I've also given you the > Admin role on that tracker. Thanks. --David From ethan at stoneleaf.us Sun Dec 1 22:00:33 2013 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 13:00:33 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] Anatoly has been warned about his behaviour potentially leading to his loss of tracker privileges In-Reply-To: References:

<1385761876.2336.57.camel@fsol> <14E6220E-B82A-449F-93A4-A7F4485F291C@acm.org>

Message-ID: <529BA371.5030302@stoneleaf.us> Thanks, Nick. Your time and energy are appreciated. -- ~Ethan~ From ethan at stoneleaf.us Mon Dec 2 23:54:44 2013 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 14:54:44 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] 3.4 beta releases and the tracker Message-ID: <529D0FB4.1000903@stoneleaf.us> Okay, I haven't asked a dumb question in a while, so here goes: Is there an easy way to focus on tracker issues that can be worked on now that feature-freeze is in effect? -- ~Ethan~ From tjreedy at udel.edu Mon Dec 2 23:59:15 2013 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 17:59:15 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] 3.4 beta releases and the tracker In-Reply-To: <529D0FB4.1000903@stoneleaf.us> References: <529D0FB4.1000903@stoneleaf.us> Message-ID: <529D10C3.2090206@udel.edu> On 12/2/2013 5:54 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > Is there an easy way to focus on tracker issues that can be worked on > now that feature-freeze is in effect? Search (default) Status: open for Type: behavior or Components: documenation. From rdmurray at bitdance.com Tue Dec 3 01:12:16 2013 From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 19:12:16 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] 3.4 beta releases and the tracker In-Reply-To: <529D10C3.2090206@udel.edu> References: <529D0FB4.1000903@stoneleaf.us> <529D10C3.2090206@udel.edu> Message-ID: <20131203001216.DD55C25007F@webabinitio.net> On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 17:59:15 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 12/2/2013 5:54 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > > Is there an easy way to focus on tracker issues that can be worked on > > now that feature-freeze is in effect? > > Search (default) Status: open for Type: behavior or Components: > documenation. If you are feeling adventurous, you can also check out how Roundup constructs its search URLs, and construct one by hand that searches for all types *except* 'enhancement' or 'performance'. But searching for just 'behavior' should get you more than enough to work on. --David From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Dec 4 13:22:53 2013 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 12:22:53 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April Message-ID: Hello all, As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running from approximately 10am to 4pm. As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of other implementations and prominent Python projects. The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and hotel costs. If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in the Language Summit. Regards, Michael Foord Coordinator, Python Language Summit -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From brett at python.org Wed Dec 4 15:26:46 2013 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 09:26:46 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Hello all, > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North > America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running > from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're > attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I > will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of > other implementations and prominent Python projects. > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on > plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of > the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, > PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see > discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, > but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and > hotel costs. > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. > Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in > the Language Summit. > > Regards, > > > Michael Foord > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eliben at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 18:11:32 2013 From: eliben at gmail.com (Eli Bendersky) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 09:11:32 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > Define "sunset" :) Eli > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North >> America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running >> from approximately 10am to 4pm. >> >> As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're >> attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I >> will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of >> other implementations and prominent Python projects. >> >> The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on >> plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of >> the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, >> PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see >> discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, >> but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). >> >> Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and >> hotel costs. >> >> If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. >> Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in >> the Language Summit. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Michael Foord >> Coordinator, Python Language Summit >> >> >> -- >> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ >> >> >> May you do good and not evil >> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others >> May you share freely, never taking more than you give. >> -- the sqlite blessing >> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-committers mailing list >> python-committers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >> > > > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antoine at python.org Wed Dec 4 18:19:28 2013 From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:19:28 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> On mer., 2013-12-04 at 09:11 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > > Define "sunset" :) A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? Then we tie it to a weakref and throw it in the ocean. cheers Antoine. From brett at python.org Wed Dec 4 18:42:38 2013 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 12:42:38 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? >> >> > Define "sunset" :) > Stop supporting/EOL. -Brett > > Eli > > >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon >>> North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and >>> running from approximately 10am to 4pm. >>> >>> As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're >>> attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I >>> will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of >>> other implementations and prominent Python projects. >>> >>> The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on >>> plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of >>> the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, >>> PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see >>> discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, >>> but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). >>> >>> Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and >>> hotel costs. >>> >>> If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. >>> Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in >>> the Language Summit. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Michael Foord >>> Coordinator, Python Language Summit >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ >>> >>> >>> May you do good and not evil >>> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others >>> May you share freely, never taking more than you give. >>> -- the sqlite blessing >>> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> python-committers mailing list >>> python-committers at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-committers mailing list >> python-committers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Dec 4 18:46:44 2013 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 17:46:44 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> On 4 Dec 2013, at 14:26, Brett Cannon wrote: > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > I've added it to the agenda with your name... Thanks, Michael > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Hello all, > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of other implementations and prominent Python projects. > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and hotel costs. > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in the Language Summit. > > Regards, > > > Michael Foord > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From brett at python.org Wed Dec 4 18:48:07 2013 From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 12:48:07 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> References: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2013, at 14:26, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > I've added it to the agenda with your name... > As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to check their pitchforks at the door? =) -Brett > > Thanks, > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord > wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon > North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and > running from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're > attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I > will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of > other implementations and prominent Python projects. > > > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on > plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of > the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, > PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see > discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, > but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and > hotel costs. > > > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. > Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in > the Language Summit. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michael Foord > > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > > > > -- > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > > > > May you do good and not evil > > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > > -- the sqlite blessing > > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > python-committers mailing list > > python-committers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Dec 4 19:01:18 2013 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 18:01:18 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: <5348A9D0-34FD-40C2-AE3A-1321AAAE6481@voidspace.org.uk> On 4 Dec 2013, at 17:48, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 4 Dec 2013, at 14:26, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > I've added it to the agenda with your name... > > As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to check their pitchforks at the door? =) > On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and popcorn... Michael > -Brett > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending so I can track numbers. When we have specific venue details I will email them to all attendees. I will also be inviting "core members" of other implementations and prominent Python projects. > > > > The topic of conversation will largely be "floor led" with a focus on plans for Python 3.5, but we will endeavour to have updates from members of the alternative implementations of Python and important topics like tulip, PyPI, packaging and so on. If you have topics you would like to see discussed please let me know. We may have some other short presentations, but they will be time limited (and the time limit enforced!). > > > > Attending the Summit is free. You are responsible for your travel and hotel costs. > > > > If you wish to attend PyCon, you must still register and pay for PyCon. Note that you don't have to stay for PyCon if you're only interested in the Language Summit. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michael Foord > > Coordinator, Python Language Summit > > > > > > -- > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > > > > May you do good and not evil > > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > > -- the sqlite blessing > > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > python-committers mailing list > > python-committers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > > > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From zachary.ware+pycommit at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 19:01:57 2013 From: zachary.ware+pycommit at gmail.com (Zachary Ware) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 12:01:57 -0600 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Hello all, > > As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running from approximately 10am to 4pm. > > As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending so I can track numbers. How soon do you need to know? I would really like to be there, but I don't know when/if I'll be able to say that I will be. -- Zach From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Dec 4 19:03:07 2013 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 18:03:07 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <2C1440C0-60F5-4A36-A31B-66E2B9C179AD@voidspace.org.uk> On 4 Dec 2013, at 18:01, Zachary Ware wrote: > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Michael Foord wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> As with previous years we will be having a Language Summit at PyCon North America, in Montreal. The summit will be on Wednesday 9th April and running from approximately 10am to 4pm. >> >> As Python committers you're invited, but please respond if you're attending so I can track numbers. > > How soon do you need to know? I would really like to be there, but I > don't know when/if I'll be able to say that I will be. I'll put you down as a maybe and let me know (privately) when you're definite one way or the other. Thanks! Michael > > -- > Zach -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From christian at python.org Wed Dec 4 19:13:37 2013 From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:13:37 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <5348A9D0-34FD-40C2-AE3A-1321AAAE6481@voidspace.org.uk> References: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> <5348A9D0-34FD-40C2-AE3A-1321AAAE6481@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: <529F70D1.2050000@python.org> Am 04.12.2013 19:01, schrieb Michael Foord: >> I've added it to the agenda with your name... >> >> As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the >> development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to >> check their pitchforks at the door? =) >> > > On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and popcorn... Don't forget to bring a sharpening stone! :) From michael at voidspace.org.uk Wed Dec 4 19:14:23 2013 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 18:14:23 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <529F70D1.2050000@python.org> References: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> <5348A9D0-34FD-40C2-AE3A-1321AAAE6481@voidspace.org.uk> <529F70D1.2050000@python.org> Message-ID: <8340D2F4-D550-4F9C-87A4-377D5EE3C8A8@voidspace.org.uk> On 4 Dec 2013, at 18:13, Christian Heimes wrote: > Am 04.12.2013 19:01, schrieb Michael Foord: >>> I've added it to the agenda with your name... >>> >>> As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the >>> development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to >>> check their pitchforks at the door? =) >>> >> >> On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and popcorn... > > Don't forget to bring a sharpening stone! :) Sharpening popcorn doesn't work, I've tried it. -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From antoine at python.org Wed Dec 4 19:15:24 2013 From: antoine at python.org (Antoine Pitrou) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:15:24 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> Message-ID: <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> On mer., 2013-12-04 at 18:19 +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On mer., 2013-12-04 at 09:11 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > Summit topic: when are we going to sunset Python 2.7? > > > > > > > > > > Define "sunset" :) > > A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? > Then we tie it to a weakref and throw it in the ocean. (please note I have nothing against the bsddb module by the way) As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years before "sunsetting" 2.7. Regards Antoine. From christian at python.org Wed Dec 4 19:18:14 2013 From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:18:14 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <8340D2F4-D550-4F9C-87A4-377D5EE3C8A8@voidspace.org.uk> References: <62D6CC1B-DB46-4FEB-990A-5A16B89F5D16@voidspace.org.uk> <5348A9D0-34FD-40C2-AE3A-1321AAAE6481@voidspace.org.uk> <529F70D1.2050000@python.org> <8340D2F4-D550-4F9C-87A4-377D5EE3C8A8@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: <529F71E6.6030506@python.org> Am 04.12.2013 19:14, schrieb Michael Foord: > > On 4 Dec 2013, at 18:13, Christian Heimes > wrote: > >> Am 04.12.2013 19:01, schrieb Michael Foord: >>>> I've added it to the agenda with your name... >>>> >>>> As my name is being attached to a discussion of ending the >>>> development of Python 2, will there be a place for people to >>>> check their pitchforks at the door? =) >>>> >>> >>> On the contrary, I think I'll be selling pitchforks and >>> popcorn... >> >> Don't forget to bring a sharpening stone! :) > > Sharpening popcorn doesn't work, I've tried it. You haven't tried popcorn at my local cinema yet. It'll do the job ... lots of large, diamond-hard sugar crystals. From barry at python.org Wed Dec 4 19:48:09 2013 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 13:48:09 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> Message-ID: <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >before "sunsetting" 2.7. I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only around the Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security support. -Barry From benjamin at python.org Wed Dec 4 20:07:18 2013 From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:07:18 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> Message-ID: 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >>As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >>before "sunsetting" 2.7. > > I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only around the > Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security support. FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). -- Regards, Benjamin From mal at egenix.com Wed Dec 4 20:47:43 2013 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:47:43 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> Message-ID: <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. >> >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only around the >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security support. > > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and > security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. I think that a lot more Python 2 users will be in that situation in a few years when hitting the Python 2->3 road block - even if the underlying software may support Python 3 in the near future, they may not be able to or have the resources to port their customizations to Python 3. The "indefinitely" sounds like a good plan if we want to have those users stick with us. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 04 2013) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ From eliben at gmail.com Wed Dec 4 21:28:54 2013 From: eliben at gmail.com (Eli Bendersky) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 12:28:54 -0800 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > > 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> > >>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years > >>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. > >> > >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only > around the > >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security > support. > > > > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and > > security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). > > Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 > compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot > upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the time, they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL comes with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python locally and/or carrying along with the product. Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? Eli -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mal at egenix.com Wed Dec 4 21:47:40 2013 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 21:47:40 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> Message-ID: <529F94EC.109@egenix.com> On 04.12.2013 21:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >>> 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : >>>> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>>> >>>>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >>>>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. >>>> >>>> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only >> around the >>>> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security >> support. >>> >>> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and >>> security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). >> >> Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 >> compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot >> upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. >> > > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the time, > they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL comes > with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python > locally and/or carrying along with the product. > > Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade the systems to later versions. Building your own Python installation often isn't a possibility in corporate setups, e.g. because they are only allowed to run software for which they have support contracts. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 04 2013) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ From christian at python.org Wed Dec 4 22:35:49 2013 From: christian at python.org (Christian Heimes) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 22:35:49 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> Message-ID: <529FA035.10600@python.org> Am 04.12.2013 20:07, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 > and security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like > that). Can we make an exception for platform support, e.g. compatibility fixes with new compiler or library versions? dpkg-architecture and OpenSSL with SSLv2 have broken Python 2.6 builds. From benjamin at python.org Wed Dec 4 22:40:08 2013 From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 16:40:08 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <529FA035.10600@python.org> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529FA035.10600@python.org> Message-ID: 2013/12/4 Christian Heimes : > Am 04.12.2013 20:07, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: >> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 >> and security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like >> that). > > Can we make an exception for platform support, e.g. compatibility > fixes with new compiler or library versions? dpkg-architecture and > OpenSSL with SSLv2 have broken Python 2.6 builds. In general, yes. -- Regards, Benjamin From dmalcolm at redhat.com Wed Dec 4 21:59:46 2013 From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 15:59:46 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> Message-ID: <1386190786.12091.59.camel@surprise> On Wed, 2013-12-04 at 12:28 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > > 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > >> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> > >>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two > or three years > >>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. > >> > >> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to > security-fix only around the > >> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised > security support. > > > > FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in > 2015 and > > security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like > that). > > > Just as data point: we have customers that still request > Python 2.4 > compatible versions of our products - simply because they > cannot > upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. > > > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the > time, they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our > RHEL comes with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building > a newer Python locally and/or carrying along with the product. FWIW Red Hat also now has a RH-supported way of running more recent versions of Python on RHEL: http://developerblog.redhat.com/2013/09/12/rhscl1-ga/ though I believe that's only supported on RHEL6 onwards (giving 2.7 and 3.3. on RHEL6). Doesn't help on RHEL 5 (which is still 2.4), though there are (unsupported) srpms available for later releases there. From brian at python.org Thu Dec 5 00:03:51 2013 From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 17:03:51 -0600 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <529F94EC.109@egenix.com> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> <529F94EC.109@egenix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 04.12.2013 21:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > >> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > >>> 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : > >>>> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three > years > >>>>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. > >>>> > >>>> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only > >> around the > >>>> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security > >> support. > >>> > >>> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and > >>> security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). > >> > >> Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 > >> compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot > >> upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. > >> > > > > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the > time, > > they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL > comes > > with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python > > locally and/or carrying along with the product. > > > > Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? > > One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even > earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized > installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade > the systems to later versions. Writing intentionally unmaintainable software and being locked into it is a different issue than platforms providing long-dead Python versions. If you do bad things, you're going to have a bad time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mal at egenix.com Thu Dec 5 00:22:02 2013 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 00:22:02 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> <529F94EC.109@egenix.com> Message-ID: <529FB91A.4040506@egenix.com> On 05.12.2013 00:03, Brian Curtin wrote: > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>> Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? >> >> One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even >> earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized >> installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade >> the systems to later versions. > > > Writing intentionally unmaintainable software and being locked into it is a > different issue than platforms providing long-dead Python versions. If you > do bad things, you're going to have a bad time. I'm not sure I follow. Like many other systems, Zope and Plone only support a few Python versions for each release. If you want to upgrade to later Python versions, you have to upgrade to newer Zope and Plone versions as well. Now, unlike Python 2, the changes for those new versions are often significant, so add-ons or customizations written for the version you have installed (often) don't work anymore in newer releases (also because these systems tend to have shorter release cycles and switch major versions more frequently than Python). Just like with OSes shipping older Python releases, you are therefore stuck with a system that only runs on older Python releases. This is not the same as intentionally writing unmaintainable software. If you can't keep up with a system's release cycle, you fall behind, and there may be many reasons for this to happen, e.g. no budget, people changing jobs, the application being feature complete and in maintenance mode - until one day someone does need a new feature, etc. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Dec 04 2013) >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ From ncoghlan at gmail.com Thu Dec 5 00:47:49 2013 From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 09:47:49 +1000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> <529F94EC.109@egenix.com> Message-ID: On 5 Dec 2013 09:04, "Brian Curtin" wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> >> On 04.12.2013 21:28, Eli Bendersky wrote: >> > On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> > >> >> On 04.12.2013 20:07, Benjamin Peterson wrote: >> >>> 2013/12/4 Barry Warsaw : >> >>>> On Dec 04, 2013, at 07:15 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> As for the question, I think we should wait at least two or three years >> >>>>> before "sunsetting" 2.7. >> >>>> >> >>>> I've been thinking we should move Python 2.7 to security-fix only >> >> around the >> >>>> Python 3.5 time frame, with a couple more years of promised security >> >> support. >> >>> >> >>> FWIW, the current plan is to have the last normal release in 2015 and >> >>> security releases "indefinitely" (2020 or something like that). >> >> >> >> Just as data point: we have customers that still request Python 2.4 >> >> compatible versions of our products - simply because they cannot >> >> upgrade. The last release of that series was in 2008. >> >> >> > >> > I was always curious about these "cannot upgrade" cases. Most of the time, >> > they seem to boil down to "because that's the default Python our RHEL comes >> > with", completely ignoring the possiblity of just building a newer Python >> > locally and/or carrying along with the product. >> > >> > Can you clarify on some specific interesting cases you ran into? >> >> One example is users stuck on e.g. Zope 2.10 or Plone 3.3 (or even >> earlier). They cannot upgrade because they are using customized >> installations and don't have the knowledge or resources to upgrade >> the systems to later versions. > > > Writing intentionally unmaintainable software and being locked into it is a different issue than platforms providing long-dead Python versions. If you do bad things, you're going to have a bad time. A lot of these cases are companies that didn't know any better at the time, though. Cheers, Nick. > > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcea at jcea.es Thu Dec 5 03:16:53 2013 From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 03:16:53 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> Message-ID: <529FE215.20806@jcea.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/12/13 18:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> Define "sunset" :) > > A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? Then we tie it to > a weakref and throw it in the ocean. bsddb, Glup! :-). I can't attend the summit, but I would like to discuss DTRACE probes for 3.5. Can it be done or being present is required?. - -- Jes?s Cea Avi?n _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ Twitter: @jcea _/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQCVAwUBUp/iFZlgi5GaxT1NAQKmEAP/fbij44AcZFhXNMta/vgFZf+vwJmU3NxZ XJVi39DQoJRhKJbglSX2+4HBrylStaJIDlsdXiHLSV/wuicR5oEWiN3tV4xqj6LW lcmVyAvzBcMv7oSBRPbtl2aMnlmZhBXHjE/E07/xuQQDEu6+ocO/4kBuSjvGH/9n x+CU86ZwL6c= =Xyj7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jcea at jcea.es Thu Dec 5 03:31:01 2013 From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 03:31:01 +0100 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <529FB91A.4040506@egenix.com> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <1386180924.6742.2.camel@fsol> <20131204134809.30f274d2@anarchist> <529F86DF.6000306@egenix.com> <529F94EC.109@egenix.com> <529FB91A.4040506@egenix.com> Message-ID: <529FE565.9060506@jcea.es> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/13 00:22, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Like many other systems, Zope and Plone only support a few Python > versions for each release. If you want to upgrade to later Python > versions, you have to upgrade to newer Zope and Plone versions as > well. I have first hand experience with Zope 2.10 and Python 2.4. Nightmare. In my case, I use products like ZWIKI, that doesn't work on new releases of Zope. Tens of thousands of wikipages by the way. That is, this is not my "messy code" but depending of a product unmaintained and incompatible with new Zope releases. Currently I run two zope instances: Zope 2.13 for most of my web and Zope 2.10 for the wikis, mapped thru the apache front end. Ugly hack I dislike deeply. I have to decide if adopting zwiki myself (puf, puf, busy and uninteresting :-( ) or just drop Zope and migrate an enormous web to something else. Sure you can feel my pain, but this is offtopic :-). Python 2.7 ends its usual 5-year cycle support in 2015. After that, I would suggest source releases only, security+build fixes only, until thermal dead of the universe. Or until downloads < 1% of 3.x downloads (and hide it a bit in the main page, so newbies don't have any doubt about which version to download). - -- Jes?s Cea Avi?n _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ Twitter: @jcea _/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQCVAwUBUp/lZZlgi5GaxT1NAQIt6gP/UU3qeMtJ7hfbg9wmGeb2ma0w1cWH88IR tN0UNQTZFSXrhXLGG25ZHXsF/f+J6z0g0ShtgRLRp4dF1t4DIBvW9MbTfsNPtsMm JQuk1Udm2O6vokQLR4c45akjTx3pulnzKoYZVrIsMJqrzb2DvTAWKM2X64+YTPi6 zJUHzEXA/a0= =BKdn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From michael at voidspace.org.uk Thu Dec 5 11:43:33 2013 From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 10:43:33 +0000 Subject: [python-committers] PyCon Language Summit: Wednesday 9th April In-Reply-To: <529FE215.20806@jcea.es> References:

<1386177568.6742.1.camel@fsol> <529FE215.20806@jcea.es> Message-ID: <7206319B-0A63-4E8A-96D9-BBAB1A36BEFF@voidspace.org.uk> On 5 Dec 2013, at 02:16, Jesus Cea wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 04/12/13 18:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> Define "sunset" :) >> >> A romantic evening with the bsddb module perhaps? Then we tie it to >> a weakref and throw it in the ocean. > > bsddb, Glup! :-). > > I can't attend the summit, but I would like to discuss DTRACE probes > for 3.5. Can it be done or being present is required?. Are there other people, who will be present, willing and able to lead the discussion? Perhaps find a proxy person to represent your points and start the discussion. If you find someone let me know who and I'll add them and the discussion item to the agenda. Michael > > - -- > Jes?s Cea Avi?n _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ > jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ > Twitter: @jcea _/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ > jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ > "Things are not so easy" _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ > "My name is Dump, Core Dump" _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ > "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQCVAwUBUp/iFZlgi5GaxT1NAQKmEAP/fbij44AcZFhXNMta/vgFZf+vwJmU3NxZ > XJVi39DQoJRhKJbglSX2+4HBrylStaJIDlsdXiHLSV/wuicR5oEWiN3tV4xqj6LW > lcmVyAvzBcMv7oSBRPbtl2aMnlmZhBXHjE/E07/xuQQDEu6+ocO/4kBuSjvGH/9n > x+CU86ZwL6c= > =Xyj7 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From brian at python.org Thu Dec 19 17:22:23 2013 From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 10:22:23 -0600 Subject: [python-committers] MSDN Renewals Message-ID: Hi all, I've heard from some people in a previous batch that their MSDN subscriptions are due to expire in January. If yours will be expiring soon and you'd like an update, please let me know the email address associated with the account, and your subscription ID. I believe that ID was included in a notification email you might have gotten informing you of the upcoming expiration, but if not, you can find it on https://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/manage/ when you're logged in. If you don't currently have a subscription (it gets you Visual Studio, OS licenses, etc) but would like one, please send me the email you'd like to use for the account, your mailing address, and your phone number. They don't mail you or call you, but Microsoft requires that info for the subscription. Brian From rdmurray at bitdance.com Wed Dec 25 15:46:16 2013 From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:46:16 -0500 Subject: [python-committers] svn.python.org SSL cert is expired Message-ID: <20131225144617.0BFCA25003F@webabinitio.net> So all the buildbots are red for the moment. A mixture of red and green would have been more appropriate for today, I think :) --David From benjamin at python.org Wed Dec 25 19:02:31 2013 From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 12:02:31 -0600 Subject: [python-committers] svn.python.org SSL cert is expired In-Reply-To: <20131225144617.0BFCA25003F@webabinitio.net> References: <20131225144617.0BFCA25003F@webabinitio.net> Message-ID: I was going to get another CACert certificate for svn.python.org, but I forgot you need to verify the domain (by getting email at root@) before CACert will issue a cert for it. I suppose I could generate another self-signed one. 2013/12/25 R. David Murray