From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Mon Mar  1 09:44:01 2010
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 00:44:01 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
Message-ID: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>

I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
failing me right now.

Thanks,

Steve
-- 
Where did you get that preposterous hypothesis?
Did Steve tell you that?
        --- The Hiphopopotamus

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Mon Mar  1 10:29:29 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:29:29 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hmg1g1$s23$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 01.03.2010 09:44, schrieb Steven Bethard:
> I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
> someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
> merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
> probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
> failing me right now.

You'll commit to 2.7 and then merge to 3.2.  You also should block the
original commit in 2.6, and the 3.2 commit in 3.1.  svnmerge usage is
described in the dev FAQ:

http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches

About the docs: I see argparse already uses Sphinx, so the format is fine.
We usually have only one page per module though; if the total length isn't
more than that of e.g. logging (which is one of the larger documents) I'd
like to have all-in-one.

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.


From eric at trueblade.com  Mon Mar  1 10:16:41 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:16:41 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>

Steven Bethard wrote:
> I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
> someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
> merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
> probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
> failing me right now.

http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches

Use svnmerge.py. Commit to trunk, then merge to py3k. You'll probably 
want to block release26-maint and release31-maint.

Eric.


From greg at krypto.org  Mon Mar  1 18:22:56 2010
From: greg at krypto.org (Gregory P. Smith)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:22:56 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>
>> I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
>> someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
>> merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
>> probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
>> failing me right now.
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches
>
> Use svnmerge.py. Commit to trunk, then merge to py3k. You'll probably want
> to block release26-maint and release31-maint.
>
> Eric.

Why bother explicitly blocking it in release26-maint and
release31-maint?  That just seems like extra svn makework given it
won't be merged into those branches anyways as a matter of policy.

-gps

From eric at trueblade.com  Mon Mar  1 18:31:13 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 12:31:13 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>

Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>> I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
>>> someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
>>> merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
>>> probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
>>> failing me right now.
>> http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches
>>
>> Use svnmerge.py. Commit to trunk, then merge to py3k. You'll probably want
>> to block release26-maint and release31-maint.
>>
>> Eric.
> 
> Why bother explicitly blocking it in release26-maint and
> release31-maint?  That just seems like extra svn makework given it
> won't be merged into those branches anyways as a matter of policy.

Because the FAQ tells me to do so!

I've been doing it to remind myself of things that need to be merged, or 
not. And I believe it used to be used by people doing mass-merges, I'm 
not sure if that is done any more.

A few of us discussed this at the sprint. I think an official policy on 
the issue would be a good thing, since people are of 2 minds about it.

Eric.

From brett at python.org  Mon Mar  1 21:40:42 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:40:42 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 09:31, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:

> Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
>>>> someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
>>>> merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
>>>> probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
>>>> failing me right now.
>>>>
>>> http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches
>>>
>>> Use svnmerge.py. Commit to trunk, then merge to py3k. You'll probably
>>> want
>>> to block release26-maint and release31-maint.
>>>
>>> Eric.
>>>
>>
>> Why bother explicitly blocking it in release26-maint and
>> release31-maint?  That just seems like extra svn makework given it
>> won't be merged into those branches anyways as a matter of policy.
>>
>
> Because the FAQ tells me to do so!
>
> I've been doing it to remind myself of things that need to be merged, or
> not. And I believe it used to be used by people doing mass-merges, I'm not
> sure if that is done any more.
>

Georg and Benjamin used to do it on occasion back when people did not do any
primary development in py3k or would just forget because it was not habit
yet.



>
> A few of us discussed this at the sprint. I think an official policy on the
> issue would be a good thing, since people are of 2 minds about it.


I say we keep doing it in case someone does one last blind merge before we
switch to Hg.

-Brett
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar  1 22:10:11 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:10:11 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>

> I say we keep doing it in case someone does one last blind merge before
> we switch to Hg.

That would fail terribly, as there are tons of unblocked changes that
shouldn't be merged, either.

I don't want to argue about policy at this point, but I don't feel
particularly bad myself when I forget to block changes.

Regards,
Martin

From barry at python.org  Mon Mar  1 22:31:17 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:31:17 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 rc 1
Message-ID: <20100301163117.2fd82c44@heresy.wooz.org>

Remember, I am cutting the 2.6.5 rc 1 release today, probably in about 90
minutes.  I have a patch to commit for bug 7250, which unfortunately doesn't
appear to be unit-testable. :(  I'm hoping someone will be able to test this
in a live environment.

Please refrain from committing anything to the release26-maint branch without
pinging me first on #python-dev.  I'll send another message after the thaw.

-Barry
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From brett at python.org  Mon Mar  1 23:06:16 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:06:16 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 13:10, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> > I say we keep doing it in case someone does one last blind merge before
> > we switch to Hg.
>
> That would fail terribly, as there are tons of unblocked changes that
> shouldn't be merged, either.
>
> I don't want to argue about policy at this point, but I don't feel
> particularly bad myself when I forget to block changes.
>

Well, if we are already screwed if we do a blind merge we might as well stop
wasting our time on doing blocks since that is the only real use case for
bothering.

-Brett



>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
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From barry at python.org  Mon Mar  1 23:24:15 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:24:15 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>

On Mar 01, 2010, at 02:06 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:

>Well, if we are already screwed if we do a blind merge we might as well stop
>wasting our time on doing blocks since that is the only real use case for
>bothering.

Maybe we should consider switching to hg now rather than waiting?  (Well, by
"now" I mean after I release 2.6.5 :).  We're still a month away from 2.7 beta
1 and 6+ months away from 3.2 beta 1.  If svn is hopeless (and my vote is that
it is) let's do the switch now with plenty of time to shake out the pain.
Nothing like angry developers to motivate that, and at least now that Pycon's
over, physical intimidation is more difficult. :)

Seriously though, do we really have to wait until 2.7 is released?

-Barry
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From barry at python.org  Mon Mar  1 23:28:05 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:28:05 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78573 -
	python/tags/r265rc1
Message-ID: <20100301172805.6fc031eb@freewill.wooz.org>

Hi Martin and Ronald,

We are tagged for 2.6.5 rc 1.  Please let me know when the installers are uploaded.

-Barry
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From benjamin at python.org  Mon Mar  1 23:44:20 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:44:20 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003011444qb915dd8ybbf85de284a1d98d@mail.gmail.com>

2010/3/1 Brett Cannon <brett at python.org>:
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 09:31, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>> I've been doing it to remind myself of things that need to be merged, or
>> not. And I believe it used to be used by people doing mass-merges, I'm not
>> sure if that is done any more.
>
> Georg and Benjamin used to do it on occasion back when people did not do any
> primary development in py3k or would just forget because it was not habit
> yet.

FWIW, I don't worry about 2.6 or 3.1. I think it's of most importance
that the trunk and py3k branch stay in sync, so I only block between
those too branches.


-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From barry at python.org  Tue Mar  2 00:22:24 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 18:22:24 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 2.6.5
Message-ID: <20100301182224.504dd49a@freewill.wooz.org>

The tarballs for Python 2.6.5 rc1 have been uploaded, the branch tagged, and
the website fiddled.  I want to semi-unfreeze the release26-maint branch.
Since this was a release candidate, only patches fixing release blockers, or
other brown paper bag bugs will be allowed.  Contact me via email, bug tracker
or IRC if you want to get something in.

Please do download and test the release candidate with your favorite
software.  I won't announce it to the wider community until Martin has
uploaded the Windows installer.  Your testing will help make 2.6.5 final a
great, solid release!

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.5/

Cheers,
-Barry

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From brett at python.org  Tue Mar  2 03:06:33 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 18:06:33 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <bbaeab101003011806j4454561bs274970314a8ee93@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 14:24, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Mar 01, 2010, at 02:06 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
> >Well, if we are already screwed if we do a blind merge we might as well
> stop
> >wasting our time on doing blocks since that is the only real use case for
> >bothering.
>
> Maybe we should consider switching to hg now rather than waiting?  (Well,
> by
> "now" I mean after I release 2.6.5 :).  We're still a month away from 2.7
> beta
> 1 and 6+ months away from 3.2 beta 1.  If svn is hopeless (and my vote is
> that
> it is) let's do the switch now with plenty of time to shake out the pain.
> Nothing like angry developers to motivate that, and at least now that
> Pycon's
> over, physical intimidation is more difficult. :)
>
> Seriously though, do we really have to wait until 2.7 is released?
>

The hold-up will ultimately be the EOL extension and the updated docs now
that Dirkjan has a patch for sys.mercurial. The 2.7 date was to give a
target date push those last two items to be done.

-Brett




>
> -Barry
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
>
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From jcea at jcea.es  Tue Mar  2 04:36:42 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 04:36:42 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/01/2010 11:24 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Maybe we should consider switching to hg now rather than waiting?

I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
holding us back?.

(And yes, maybe migrating would do people angry enough for solving the
last details :-).

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar  2 06:18:28 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 06:18:28 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <bbaeab101003011806j4454561bs274970314a8ee93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<bbaeab101003011806j4454561bs274970314a8ee93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8C9FA4.2000402@v.loewis.de>

> The hold-up will ultimately be the EOL extension and the updated docs
> now that Dirkjan has a patch for sys.mercurial.

Is that patch published somewhere? I'd like to take a look.

Regards,
Martin

From steven.bethard at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 10:32:00 2010
From: steven.bethard at gmail.com (Steven Bethard)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 01:32:00 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <d11dcfba1003020132y25512137p9ec3cb0b38677bc7@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>
>> I'm preparing the argparse module for the 2.7 and 3.2 branches. Could
>> someone remind me again what the commit process is? Commit to 2.7 and
>> merge to 3.2? And do we merge with svnmerge.py or svn merge? There's
>> probably a webpage explaining this somewhere, but my Google-fu is
>> failing me right now.
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-merge-between-branches
>
> Use svnmerge.py. Commit to trunk, then merge to py3k. You'll probably want
> to block release26-maint and release31-maint.

Thanks, and done in r78576 (trunk) and r78577 (py3k). I also went
ahead and blocked the two maintenance releases (in r78578 and r78579).
Hopefully everything went smoothly! Let me know if I screwed anything
up. =)

Steve
-- 
Where did you get that preposterous hypothesis?
Did Steve tell you that?
        --- The Hiphopopotamus

From amk at amk.ca  Tue Mar  2 14:21:22 2010
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 08:21:22 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>

On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 04:36:42AM +0100, Jesus Cea wrote:
> I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
> line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
> holding us back?.

Note that, if you'd just like to use Mercurial for your own
convenience while developing, the mirrored repositories at
http://hg.python.org/ are up-to-date; you just can't push changes
back.  I have a regex patch that was developed using an hg checkout of
the Python source tree, with my changes layered atop it using the mq
extension.

--amk

From barry at python.org  Tue Mar  2 15:17:22 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 09:17:22 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
Message-ID: <20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>

On Mar 02, 2010, at 08:21 AM, A.M. Kuchling wrote:

>On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 04:36:42AM +0100, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
>> line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
>> holding us back?.
>
>Note that, if you'd just like to use Mercurial for your own
>convenience while developing, the mirrored repositories at
>http://hg.python.org/ are up-to-date; you just can't push changes
>back.  I have a regex patch that was developed using an hg checkout of
>the Python source tree, with my changes layered atop it using the mq
>extension.

We really need to move to a dvcs for development sooner rather than later.
It's been a year since the decision was made.  I understand that it will suck
for Windows developers in the short term, but with all the discussion about
the PSF paying for pdo infrastructure work, I think getting us off of
Subversion would have the most immediate positive impact for development of
Python.  If the EOL issue is the holdup, what can we do *right now* to break
that logjam?  Can't the PSF pay somebody to make this happen?

-Barry
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From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Mar  2 15:41:45 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:41:45 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org> <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 15:17, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> We really need to move to a dvcs for development sooner rather than later.
> It's been a year since the decision was made. ?I understand that it will suck
> for Windows developers in the short term, but with all the discussion about
> the PSF paying for pdo infrastructure work, I think getting us off of
> Subversion would have the most immediate positive impact for development of
> Python. ?If the EOL issue is the holdup, what can we do *right now* to break
> that logjam? ?Can't the PSF pay somebody to make this happen?

For the EOL issue, there is code, it needs testing. Martin Geisler
(the primary author so far) and I issued a call for testing on
python-dev last week, but without any response so far. As for paying
someone, I have a full-time job already, so I don't really have the
time to do consulting. I could ask around for other Mercurial team
members, but I'm not sure there's much point to it if no one is
testing the extension that exists right now.

The other thing is that I need a good way to prune branches. I wrote
up some code to do branch renaming last week, but there's another
issue to tackle. Meanwhile, I've been busy with moving ahead on the
Jython conversion, since they don't have the EOL requirements at this
time. I hope to complete that project this week. I've also been
setting up some infrastructure last week, to make it usable for
distutils2/unittest2. I set up changegroup (i.e. push) emails to
python-checkins for distutils2 last night, but I'm not sure the first
email got through (might be stuck in moderation?).

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Mar  2 16:16:37 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:16:37 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>

Le Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:41:45 +0100,
Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl> a ?crit :
> 
> For the EOL issue, there is code, it needs testing. Martin Geisler
> (the primary author so far) and I issued a call for testing on
> python-dev last week, but without any response so far.

The people who have voiced their annoyance at the EOL situation should
do the testing, really. If they don't want to do it, then IMO we should
move forward anyway. There are more pressing issues involved in the
Mercurial transition (for example, what we will replace the svnmerge
process with) and I find it a bit annoying that we have to focus on the
micro-issue of EOL translation, which (judging by mailing-list
archives) doesn't seem to affect the Windows-based Mercurial users
at large.

Regards

Antoine.

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Mar  2 16:29:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:29:13 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>
Message-ID: <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:41:45 +0100,
> Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl> a ?crit :
>> For the EOL issue, there is code, it needs testing. Martin Geisler
>> (the primary author so far) and I issued a call for testing on
>> python-dev last week, but without any response so far.
> 
> The people who have voiced their annoyance at the EOL situation should
> do the testing, really. If they don't want to do it, then IMO we should
> move forward anyway. There are more pressing issues involved in the
> Mercurial transition (for example, what we will replace the svnmerge
> process with) and I find it a bit annoying that we have to focus on the
> micro-issue of EOL translation, which (judging by mailing-list
> archives) doesn't seem to affect the Windows-based Mercurial users
> at large.
> 
I expended a good deal of effort last year making sure that core
developers who required them got MSDN licenses. This should surely
enable some testing. If nobody wants to test for the Windows platform
then all the work is going to fall on MvL, who surely has plenty to do
without that additional load.

IMHO we got in this mess because we didn't have sufficient involvement
from Windows platform users during the DVCS evaluation - people saw that
there was some accommodation to Windows, and assumed it would be
sufficient for our purposes. It wasn't, and a year later we are only
just approaching a solution.

This is a big deal, and it needs some effort. Doesn't *anyone* have time?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Mar  2 16:42:07 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:42:07 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind>

Le Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:29:13 -0500,
Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> a ?crit :
> IMHO we got in this mess because we didn't have sufficient involvement
> from Windows platform users during the DVCS evaluation - people saw
> that there was some accommodation to Windows, and assumed it would be
> sufficient for our purposes. It wasn't, and a year later we are only
> just approaching a solution.

It's still unclear that it's not sufficient, though. To me it seems
more like a case of striving for perfection while the current situation
should be good enough. In other words, I'm not willing to spend any of
my time on what looks to me like a non-issue.

Regards

Antoine.

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Mar  2 17:12:24 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:12:24 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>
	<4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com> <20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind>
Message-ID: <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:29:13 -0500,
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> a ?crit :
>> IMHO we got in this mess because we didn't have sufficient involvement
>> from Windows platform users during the DVCS evaluation - people saw
>> that there was some accommodation to Windows, and assumed it would be
>> sufficient for our purposes. It wasn't, and a year later we are only
>> just approaching a solution.
> 
> It's still unclear that it's not sufficient, though. To me it seems
> more like a case of striving for perfection while the current situation
> should be good enough. In other words, I'm not willing to spend any of
> my time on what looks to me like a non-issue.
> 
And does it look like a non-issue because you are familiar with the
Windows environment or because your imagination can't conceive of why it
would be a real problem? Does going ahead make development more
difficult for the Windows platform? I'm not fully familiar with the
issues, but if they were significant enough to persuade Brett that Hg
shouldn't go ahead I have to believe they are potential show-stoppers.

I'd rather *know* it was a non-issue than *assume* (as Windows
developers did when Hg was mooted) it was a non-issue and then find out
that it's real.

Ultimately it's up to the core development team. From the outside I see
support for a major platform becoming tenuous, and that concerns me.
Where's Tim Peters when you need him?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Mar  2 17:41:07 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:41:07 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org> <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org> 
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com> 
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 17:12, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> And does it look like a non-issue because you are familiar with the
> Windows environment or because your imagination can't conceive of why it
> would be a real problem? Does going ahead make development more
> difficult for the Windows platform? I'm not fully familiar with the
> issues, but if they were significant enough to persuade Brett that Hg
> shouldn't go ahead I have to believe they are potential show-stoppers.

It's perceived as not much of an issue, AFAICT, because people feel
that using good editors will save you most of the time, pre-push hooks
will prevent everyone from actually polluting the central repository,
and it would be easy to install pre-commit hooks locally to get an
early warning. ISTM that the remaining problem space is a high level
of automation that some Windows developers desire, that they got from
SVN, but that is quite small because there's a bunch of mitigating
factors. It's perceived as a regression, and as making Windows
developers second class because most of the issues won't come up on
other systems.

Cautiously formulating-ly,

Dirkjan

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Mar  2 18:01:42 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 18:01:42 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org> 
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com> 
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com> 
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 17:52, Michael Foord <mfoord at python.org> wrote:
> What is the risk of going ahead with a broken system?
>
> The crux of the matter is that building Python for Windows could break if
> someone accidentally commits the wrong line-endings for a few specific files
> (Visual Studio project and configuration files - do I understand
> correctly?). If this happens, how hard a job would it be to find and fix the
> problem?

That wouldn't happen, because we'd have pre-push hooks in place that
prevent changesets changing something for the worse from going into
the central repository. That places a certain burden on people who run
into these issues to fix up their changesets, though. The argument
was, I think, that it's not reasonable for Windows developers to have
to spend time on fixing up their own changesets when other developers
don't have to do so.

> The risk *seems* reasonably low, people on non-Windows platforms are
> unlikely to touch those files and they are unlikely to be edited by hand,
> and if the cost of fixing the problem is low it seems reasonable to migrate
> earlier rather than later.

IMO the risk is negligible, due to the aformentioned precautions.

> Would it help for the PSF to pay someone to do the necessary testing +
> coding to ensure the problem is fixed and is there a likely person we could
> contract?

Matt Mackall, the founder of Mercurial, might be available. Martin
Geisler is the person who did most of the work on the eol extension so
far, including getting a Windows laptop from his university to try
some things, but I'm not sure he's available either. I could ask
around, though, if the PSF thinks spending money on this is
worthwhile.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Mar  2 18:59:02 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:59:02 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
	<ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D51E6.6030300@holdenweb.com>

Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 17:52, Michael Foord <mfoord at python.org> wrote:
>> What is the risk of going ahead with a broken system?
>>
>> The crux of the matter is that building Python for Windows could break if
>> someone accidentally commits the wrong line-endings for a few specific files
>> (Visual Studio project and configuration files - do I understand
>> correctly?). If this happens, how hard a job would it be to find and fix the
>> problem?
> 
> That wouldn't happen, because we'd have pre-push hooks in place that
> prevent changesets changing something for the worse from going into
> the central repository. That places a certain burden on people who run
> into these issues to fix up their changesets, though. The argument
> was, I think, that it's not reasonable for Windows developers to have
> to spend time on fixing up their own changesets when other developers
> don't have to do so.
> 
>> The risk *seems* reasonably low, people on non-Windows platforms are
>> unlikely to touch those files and they are unlikely to be edited by hand,
>> and if the cost of fixing the problem is low it seems reasonable to migrate
>> earlier rather than later.
> 
> IMO the risk is negligible, due to the aformentioned precautions.
> 
>> Would it help for the PSF to pay someone to do the necessary testing +
>> coding to ensure the problem is fixed and is there a likely person we could
>> contract?
> 
> Matt Mackall, the founder of Mercurial, might be available. Martin
> Geisler is the person who did most of the work on the eol extension so
> far, including getting a Windows laptop from his university to try
> some things, but I'm not sure he's available either. I could ask
> around, though, if the PSF thinks spending money on this is
> worthwhile.
> 
The PSF would look to the developer community for advice on this issue,
but if it's holding the DVCS switch up I can't think of many objections
to spending a modest sum to remove the issue.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From mfoord at python.org  Tue Mar  2 17:52:11 2010
From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:52:11 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>

On 02/03/2010 16:41, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 17:12, Steve Holden<steve at holdenweb.com>  wrote:
>    
>> And does it look like a non-issue because you are familiar with the
>> Windows environment or because your imagination can't conceive of why it
>> would be a real problem? Does going ahead make development more
>> difficult for the Windows platform? I'm not fully familiar with the
>> issues, but if they were significant enough to persuade Brett that Hg
>> shouldn't go ahead I have to believe they are potential show-stoppers.
>>      
> It's perceived as not much of an issue, AFAICT, because people feel
> that using good editors will save you most of the time, pre-push hooks
> will prevent everyone from actually polluting the central repository,
> and it would be easy to install pre-commit hooks locally to get an
> early warning. ISTM that the remaining problem space is a high level
> of automation that some Windows developers desire, that they got from
> SVN, but that is quite small because there's a bunch of mitigating
> factors. It's perceived as a regression, and as making Windows
> developers second class because most of the issues won't come up on
> other systems.
>    
What is the risk of going ahead with a broken system?

The crux of the matter is that building Python for Windows could break 
if someone accidentally commits the wrong line-endings for a few 
specific files (Visual Studio project and configuration files - do I 
understand correctly?). If this happens, how hard a job would it be to 
find and fix the problem?

The risk *seems* reasonably low, people on non-Windows platforms are 
unlikely to touch those files and they are unlikely to be edited by 
hand, and if the cost of fixing the problem is low it seems reasonable 
to migrate earlier rather than later.

Would it help for the PSF to pay someone to do the necessary testing + 
coding to ensure the problem is fixed and is there a likely person we 
could contract?

All the best,

Michael Foord


> Cautiously formulating-ly,
>
> Dirkjan
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>    


-- 
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog

READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (?BOGUS AGREEMENTS?) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.



From jnoller at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 19:44:39 2010
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:44:39 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D51E6.6030300@holdenweb.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
	<ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8D51E6.6030300@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <4222a8491003021044g25c378dfrfc4f269e487876ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 17:52, Michael Foord <mfoord at python.org> wrote:
>>> What is the risk of going ahead with a broken system?
>>>
>>> The crux of the matter is that building Python for Windows could break if
>>> someone accidentally commits the wrong line-endings for a few specific files
>>> (Visual Studio project and configuration files - do I understand
>>> correctly?). If this happens, how hard a job would it be to find and fix the
>>> problem?
>>
>> That wouldn't happen, because we'd have pre-push hooks in place that
>> prevent changesets changing something for the worse from going into
>> the central repository. That places a certain burden on people who run
>> into these issues to fix up their changesets, though. The argument
>> was, I think, that it's not reasonable for Windows developers to have
>> to spend time on fixing up their own changesets when other developers
>> don't have to do so.
>>
>>> The risk *seems* reasonably low, people on non-Windows platforms are
>>> unlikely to touch those files and they are unlikely to be edited by hand,
>>> and if the cost of fixing the problem is low it seems reasonable to migrate
>>> earlier rather than later.
>>
>> IMO the risk is negligible, due to the aformentioned precautions.
>>
>>> Would it help for the PSF to pay someone to do the necessary testing +
>>> coding to ensure the problem is fixed and is there a likely person we could
>>> contract?
>>
>> Matt Mackall, the founder of Mercurial, might be available. Martin
>> Geisler is the person who did most of the work on the eol extension so
>> far, including getting a Windows laptop from his university to try
>> some things, but I'm not sure he's available either. I could ask
>> around, though, if the PSF thinks spending money on this is
>> worthwhile.
>>
> The PSF would look to the developer community for advice on this issue,
> but if it's holding the DVCS switch up I can't think of many objections
> to spending a modest sum to remove the issue.

+100

jesse

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Mar  2 20:18:16 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:18:16 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com> 
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com> 
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
	<ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003021118x27ba8b69m60b0db6579d35cec@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 18:01, Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl> wrote:
>> The risk *seems* reasonably low, people on non-Windows platforms are
>> unlikely to touch those files and they are unlikely to be edited by hand,
>> and if the cost of fixing the problem is low it seems reasonable to migrate
>> earlier rather than later.
>
> IMO the risk is negligible, due to the aformentioned precautions.

Qualifying this somewhat: the *technical* risk is negligible.

As for the social risk, that's a different story.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From brett at python.org  Tue Mar  2 20:36:43 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:36:43 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8C9FA4.2000402@v.loewis.de>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<bbaeab101003011806j4454561bs274970314a8ee93@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C9FA4.2000402@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <bbaeab101003021136l29d7bda4w1f787f574ff32818@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 21:18, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> > The hold-up will ultimately be the EOL extension and the updated docs
> > now that Dirkjan has a patch for sys.mercurial.
>
> Is that patch published somewhere? I'd like to take a look.
>

Dirkjan would know where the patch is.

-Brett
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From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Mar  2 20:43:47 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:43:47 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <bbaeab101003021136l29d7bda4w1f787f574ff32818@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<bbaeab101003011806j4454561bs274970314a8ee93@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C9FA4.2000402@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003021136l29d7bda4w1f787f574ff32818@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003021143s64ccf907lc55d615f7e5d69dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 20:36, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
> Dirkjan would know where the patch is.

It's in hg.python.org/pymigr (and was previously announced in my
status report on python-dev, I think that was on Feb 10).

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Tue Mar  2 20:56:44 2010
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:56:44 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100302195644.0A4121AAD73@kimball.webabinitio.net>

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:41:45 +0100, Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 15:17, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> > We really need to move to a dvcs for development sooner rather than later.
> > It's been a year since the decision was made. ??I understand that it will suck
> > for Windows developers in the short term, but with all the discussion about
> > the PSF paying for pdo infrastructure work, I think getting us off of
> > Subversion would have the most immediate positive impact for development of
> > Python. ??If the EOL issue is the holdup, what can we do *right now* to break
> > that logjam? ??Can't the PSF pay somebody to make this happen?
> 
> For the EOL issue, there is code, it needs testing. Martin Geisler
> (the primary author so far) and I issued a call for testing on
> python-dev last week, but without any response so far. As for paying
> someone, I have a full-time job already, so I don't really have the
> time to do consulting. I could ask around for other Mercurial team
> members, but I'm not sure there's much point to it if no one is
> testing the extension that exists right now.

If I understand correctly, the goal was for the extension to be run by
all developers, whether they were on windows or not.  I think we should
make a first cut at the instructions for getting set up to use hg for
Python development, including setting up the extension.  With those
instructions in hand I'll at least test it on my linux box, and I should
also be able to find time to test it on a Windows box as well.

--David

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Tue Mar  2 21:06:06 2010
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:06:06 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100302200606.28DCA1AA65B@kimball.webabinitio.net>

I've also asked Brian Curtain to test the extension and he said he would.
(He's been doing bug triage, and testing and writing a bunch of windows
patches...I think he should be considered for commit access in the not
too distant future.)

--David

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Tue Mar  2 22:01:39 2010
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 07:01:39 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D7CB3.10908@gmail.com>

Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> It's perceived as not much of an issue, AFAICT, because people feel
> that using good editors will save you most of the time, pre-push hooks
> will prevent everyone from actually polluting the central repository,
> and it would be easy to install pre-commit hooks locally to get an
> early warning. ISTM that the remaining problem space is a high level
> of automation that some Windows developers desire, that they got from
> SVN, but that is quite small because there's a bunch of mitigating
> factors. It's perceived as a regression, and as making Windows
> developers second class because most of the issues won't come up on
> other systems.

Dirkjan's reasoning here is correct. However, we may be at the point
where we've reached diminishing returns on letting this prevent the
changeover - perhaps it is time to force the issue by actually switching
the development process, documenting the use of the hg-eol extension for
anyone that needs it and continuing on from there.

If it turns out nobody on Windows runs into EOL issues and our concerns
were unfounded, then so be it - I'm not going to complain about
prompting the development of an extension that brings hg's EOL handling
up to par with SVN's, as I'm sure we'll be far from the last group of
developers that are interested in a DVCS but want that control over EOL
handling.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar  2 22:38:58 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:38:58 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D7CB3.10908@gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>
	<4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind>
	<4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8D7CB3.10908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D8572.3090705@v.loewis.de>

> Dirkjan's reasoning here is correct. However, we may be at the point
> where we've reached diminishing returns on letting this prevent the
> changeover - perhaps it is time to force the issue by actually switching
> the development process, documenting the use of the hg-eol extension for
> anyone that needs it and continuing on from there.

The risk, of course, is to lose Mark Hammond as a contributor.

Regards,
Martin

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar  2 22:51:04 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:51:04 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4B8D8848.7040109@v.loewis.de>

> We really need to move to a dvcs for development sooner rather than later.
> It's been a year since the decision was made.  I understand that it will suck
> for Windows developers in the short term, but with all the discussion about
> the PSF paying for pdo infrastructure work, I think getting us off of
> Subversion would have the most immediate positive impact for development of
> Python.  If the EOL issue is the holdup, what can we do *right now* to break
> that logjam?  Can't the PSF pay somebody to make this happen?

IIUC, it's not just the EOL issue. There are tons of other things to be
done, and nobody willing to do them - everybody just wants them to be done.

So people who want the Mercurial switch to happen now really need to
step forward and volunteer to work on it, or else it won't happen for
another year.

Regards,
Martin

From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Mar  2 22:51:42 2010
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:51:42 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org> <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org> 
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com> 
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <368a5cd51003021351x70b29c4erfa5fb580396432d7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Le Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:29:13 -0500,
>> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> a ?crit :
>>> IMHO we got in this mess because we didn't have sufficient involvement
>>> from Windows platform users during the DVCS evaluation - people saw
>>> that there was some accommodation to Windows, and assumed it would be
>>> sufficient for our purposes. It wasn't, and a year later we are only
>>> just approaching a solution.
>>
>> It's still unclear that it's not sufficient, though. To me it seems
>> more like a case of striving for perfection while the current situation
>> should be good enough. In other words, I'm not willing to spend any of
>> my time on what looks to me like a non-issue.
>>
> And does it look like a non-issue because you are familiar with the
> Windows environment or because your imagination can't conceive of why it
> would be a real problem?

I use HG and do lots of tinkering on Windows, and my imagination can't
conceive why this would be a real problem -- unless people chose to
make it into one.

(yeah, you sometimes need to run fromdos or equivalent on new files if
checking in from windows, and it's nice to have pre-commit filters
that complains if you forget, but that's not really a big deal if you
factor in all the advantages you get from mercurial...)

</F>

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Tue Mar  2 23:04:02 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:04:02 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <1afaf6161003011444qb915dd8ybbf85de284a1d98d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1afaf6161003011444qb915dd8ybbf85de284a1d98d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hmk1vo$l8j$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 01.03.2010 23:44, schrieb Benjamin Peterson:
> 2010/3/1 Brett Cannon <brett at python.org>:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 09:31, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>>> I've been doing it to remind myself of things that need to be merged, or
>>> not. And I believe it used to be used by people doing mass-merges, I'm not
>>> sure if that is done any more.
>>
>> Georg and Benjamin used to do it on occasion back when people did not do any
>> primary development in py3k or would just forget because it was not habit
>> yet.
> 
> FWIW, I don't worry about 2.6 or 3.1. I think it's of most importance
> that the trunk and py3k branch stay in sync, so I only block between
> those too branches.

I have also given up about 2.6 or 3.1 getting all bugfixes that are made.
I do still block my changes, since I mass-merge the others from time to time,
instead of merging them one by one.

Georg


From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Mar  2 23:36:41 2010
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:36:41 +1100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>
	<4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8D92F9.2010501@skippinet.com.au>

On 3/03/2010 2:29 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Le Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:41:45 +0100,
>> Dirkjan Ochtman<dirkjan at ochtman.nl>  a ?crit :
>>> For the EOL issue, there is code, it needs testing. Martin Geisler
>>> (the primary author so far) and I issued a call for testing on
>>> python-dev last week, but without any response so far.

While I've done testing in the past, I haven't had a chance to do more 
since last week when it was indicated some of the bugs have been removed 
and it is now reasonable to test again.  It seems unlikely I will find 
more testing time before next week (and it seems a little unreasonable 
to assume people can do these kinds of things with only one weeks notice 
when it has taken many months to get to the point where more testing is 
possible)

>> The people who have voiced their annoyance at the EOL situation should
>> do the testing, really.

"Annoyance" isn't really the right word here - there was general 
agreement that we didn't want to accept 'regressions' over what SVN 
offers, and combined with the practical issues involved in using 
incorrect line-endings it seems reasonable to keep pushing for it.

It might be worth reminding people again that this can be tested 
effectively on platforms other than Windows.  Alternatively, if people 
think there are no practical problems involved and I'm just whining, we 
could look at converting the repo using \r\n line endings and let 
non-windows users experience the lack of problems it would cause <wink>.

> I expended a good deal of effort last year making sure that core
> developers who required them got MSDN licenses. This should surely
> enable some testing. If nobody wants to test for the Windows platform
> then all the work is going to fall on MvL, who surely has plenty to do
> without that additional load.

As above - while we obviously want people on Windows to test, it can be 
tested on any platform - particularly if people are willing to create a 
test repo with \r\n native line endings.  People in this community 
regularly help design and debug issues which have no direct impact on 
their day-to-day work - which is obviously a good thing - and hopefully 
some are willing to help do that in this case too.

While suggesting we use \r\n line endings on the real repo is 
tongue-in-cheek, maybe we could provide a 'sandbox' copy of the Python 
repository with \r\n line endings to help spread the testing?

On a more practical note: Without native line-endings in hg, how would 
Windows binary distributions ship .py files?  Would it ship with \n line 
endings (and therefore potentially confuse *users* of Python as well as 
developers) or would there be a conversion process (meaning a hg tree 
would be quite different than a binary tree even though the actual 
content is identical)?

> IMHO we got in this mess because we didn't have sufficient involvement
> from Windows platform users during the DVCS evaluation - people saw that
> there was some accommodation to Windows, and assumed it would be
> sufficient for our purposes. It wasn't, and a year later we are only
> just approaching a solution.

I don't think that is correct.  Let's say we did identity those problems 
during the DVCS evaluation - how would the outcome have been affected? 
At the time, bzr had zero support for end-of-line support, so selecting 
bzr wouldn't have been an outcome.  The only outcome I could see would 
have been to choose to defer the process until one of the DVCS tools 
under consideration offers the support we need - which, in practice, is 
where we are today.

Cheers,

Mark

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Mar  3 04:11:26 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:11:26 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003021118x27ba8b69m60b0db6579d35cec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
	<ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2499da1003021118x27ba8b69m60b0db6579d35cec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100302221126.1b6b806a@msiwind>

Le Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:18:16 +0100,
Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl> a ?crit :
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 18:01, Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl>
> wrote:
> >> The risk *seems* reasonably low, people on non-Windows platforms
> >> are unlikely to touch those files and they are unlikely to be
> >> edited by hand, and if the cost of fixing the problem is low it
> >> seems reasonable to migrate earlier rather than later.
> >
> > IMO the risk is negligible, due to the aformentioned precautions.
> 
> Qualifying this somewhat: the *technical* risk is negligible.
> 
> As for the social risk, that's a different story.

That was also my sentiment. These issues seem to be overestimated, or
perceived as a lack of care for the Windows platform.

This perception is wrong, I do care as much as others about the Windows
platform. It's just that having to manually run a script from time to
time if your editor screws up is not a big deal. I have to do it
myself, when SVN refuses my commit and tells me to run
Tools/reindent.py.

It is also why it doesn't sound reasonable to involve PSF money just for
such a psychological issue. But it's not my money anyway ;)

Regards

Antoine.

From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Mar  3 04:34:41 2010
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:34:41 +1100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302221126.1b6b806a@msiwind>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind>
	<4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind>
	<4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>	<ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>	<ea2499da1003021118x27ba8b69m60b0db6579d35cec@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302221126.1b6b806a@msiwind>
Message-ID: <4B8DD8D1.6000803@skippinet.com.au>

On 3/03/2010 2:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> That was also my sentiment. These issues seem to be overestimated, or
> perceived as a lack of care for the Windows platform.
>
> This perception is wrong, I do care as much as others about the Windows
> platform.

That is not my perception.  My perception is that non-windows users are 
underestimating the practical issues involved in having non-native line 
endings.  This is why I think it would be useful for *everyone* 
commenting here to actually try working with a non-native repo on their 
platform doing "real" work (eg, applying patches, mailing diffs, etc)

> It's just that having to manually run a script from time to
> time if your editor screws up is not a big deal. I have to do it
> myself, when SVN refuses my commit and tells me to run
> Tools/reindent.py.

Agreed - SVN users also have the same issue when a mixed EOL checkin is 
attempted.

The difference with HG is that the error will not happen at commit time, 
but rather at *push* time - after the local repo is already in a bad 
state.  We could suggest all Windows users configure HG to run the same 
hooks locally, but I believe that will quickly become a burden.

To use your analogy: it would be similar to SVN issuing that message 
*after* accepting the checkin and forcing you to either re-commit a fix, 
or somehow revert the state of the repo to before the checkin, then 
re-doing it.

Cheers,

Mark

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Mar  3 04:29:45 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:29:45 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8DD8D1.6000803@skippinet.com.au>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<ea2499da1003020641w4fd71c29mda39bd12f639224a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302101637.0adeefac@msiwind> <4B8D2EC9.9080805@holdenweb.com>
	<20100302104207.65f49212@msiwind> <4B8D38E8.50207@holdenweb.com>
	<ea2499da1003020841l3f53d11bl81d0fdb75e57a04c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8D423B.1010000@python.org>
	<ea2499da1003020901x2255fd9cmb5f06d2f90481486@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2499da1003021118x27ba8b69m60b0db6579d35cec@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100302221126.1b6b806a@msiwind>
	<4B8DD8D1.6000803@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: <20100302222945.4b8ccc10@msiwind>

Le Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:34:41 +1100,
Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> a ?crit :
> 
> The difference with HG is that the error will not happen at commit
> time, but rather at *push* time - after the local repo is already in
> a bad state.  We could suggest all Windows users configure HG to run
> the same hooks locally, but I believe that will quickly become a
> burden.

I don't think it will be a burden. After all the current plan is for
everybody to configure and enable the EOL extension, IIUC.

Also, I'm not so worried about repository purity, but perhaps it's just
me. We do have some "typo fix" or "sorry, I broke the buildbots"
commits from time to time...

Regards

Antoine.

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Wed Mar  3 08:13:29 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:13:29 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B8D8848.7040109@v.loewis.de>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org> <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org> 
	<4B8D8848.7040109@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003022313t616dcdd4pf865a86f4d1e54aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 22:51, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> IIUC, it's not just the EOL issue. There are tons of other things to be
> done, and nobody willing to do them - everybody just wants them to be done.

I wouldn't say there are tons of things, but yes, even if we decided
to punt on the whole EOL thing for now, that probably wouldn't bring
the switch much closer unless there's also a bunch of people jumping
in helping out with other things (some of which are going to be hard
-- for example, hacking on hgsubversion if you have no prior
experience with that tool). I'm happy to do these things and I think
the early May deadline is somewhat realistic, assuming that I don't
have to spend much of my time on the EOL issues.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Mar  3 12:16:14 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:16:14 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003022313t616dcdd4pf865a86f4d1e54aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<20100302091722.6566afb9@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B8D8848.7040109@v.loewis.de>
	<ea2499da1003022313t616dcdd4pf865a86f4d1e54aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E44FE.6040309@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/03/2010 08:13 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> I wouldn't say there are tons of things, but yes, even if we decided
> to punt on the whole EOL thing for now, that probably wouldn't bring
> the switch much closer unless there's also a bunch of people jumping
> in helping out with other things (some of which are going to be hard
> -- for example, hacking on hgsubversion if you have no prior
> experience with that tool). I'm happy to do these things and I think
> the early May deadline is somewhat realistic, assuming that I don't
> have to spend much of my time on the EOL issues.

Do you have a list of -detailed- pending issues?. Detailed enough to
decide if we can help or not...

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  3 13:28:31 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:28:31 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
Message-ID: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>

There have been a couple of commits to the Python 2.6 branch since the
2.6.5rc1 tag.  Since these were done by Florent and Victor, I just wanted to
re-iterate that all substantive changes (i.e. anything other than svnmerge
blocks) need to be approved while we're in release candidate mode.

To get a change in between rc's and final releases, you should:

* Create or elevate a bug to be a release blocker
* Attach your patch to the bug
* Discuss the change here or on python-dev
* Get approval for the change by me either via IRC or email

The revisions in question are Victor's r78597 and Florent's r78621.  Since
these are not critical fixes, I am going to revert them.

-Barry
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From jnoller at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 13:30:23 2010
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:30:23 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>



On Mar 3, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> There have been a couple of commits to the Python 2.6 branch since the
> 2.6.5rc1 tag.  Since these were done by Florent and Victor, I just  
> wanted to
> re-iterate that all substantive changes (i.e. anything other than  
> svnmerge
> blocks) need to be approved while we're in release candidate mode.
>
> To get a change in between rc's and final releases, you should:
>
> * Create or elevate a bug to be a release blocker
> * Attach your patch to the bug
> * Discuss the change here or on python-dev
> * Get approval for the change by me either via IRC or email
>
> The revisions in question are Victor's r78597 and Florent's r78621.   
> Since
> these are not critical fixes, I am going to revert them.
>
> -Barry
>

They're both on this list, right?

From florent.xicluna at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 13:35:54 2010
From: florent.xicluna at gmail.com (Florent Xicluna)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:35:54 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e43810331003030435jd12cce7hfed66c8a066a26b7@mail.gmail.com>

2010/3/3 Jesse Noller <jnoller at gmail.com>:
>
> They're both on this list, right?
>

Yep... sorry for that.

Do you want me to revert it?

-- 
Florent

From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  3 13:39:51 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:39:51 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>

On Mar 03, 2010, at 07:30 AM, Jesse Noller wrote:

>They're both on this list, right?

I hope so!  All committers are required to be.

-Barry
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From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  3 13:41:41 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:41:41 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <e43810331003030435jd12cce7hfed66c8a066a26b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<e43810331003030435jd12cce7hfed66c8a066a26b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100303074141.78b5eaab@freewill.wooz.org>

On Mar 03, 2010, at 01:35 PM, Florent Xicluna wrote:

>Do you want me to revert it?

No worries, I've already done it.
-Barry
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From eric at trueblade.com  Wed Mar  3 13:42:19 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:42:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14112.63.251.87.214.1267620139.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>

>> The revisions in question are Victor's r78597 and Florent's r78621.
>> Since
>> these are not critical fixes, I am going to revert them.
>
> They're both on this list, right?

Yes, they are.

Eric.

From eric at trueblade.com  Wed Mar  3 13:47:15 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:47:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>

> On Mar 03, 2010, at 07:30 AM, Jesse Noller wrote:
>
>>They're both on this list, right?
>
> I hope so!  All committers are required to be.

Right, but sometimes they fall through the cracks. Subscribing to the list
should be in the "welcome packet" that new committers get, but it's a
somewhat manual process.

We've been trying to ensure that everyone is on the. To that end, is there
somewhere I can regularly get an automated list of who has svn privileges?

Eric.


From jackdied at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 13:52:42 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 07:52:42 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>
> We've been trying to ensure that everyone is on the [list]. To that end, is there
> somewhere I can regularly get an automated list of who has svn privileges?

http://www.python.org/dev/committers
Misc/developers.txt

The latter has the reason why they were added.

-Jack

From eric at trueblade.com  Wed Mar  3 14:03:43 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 08:03:43 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>

Jack Diederich wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>> We've been trying to ensure that everyone is on the [list]. To that end, is there
>> somewhere I can regularly get an automated list of who has svn privileges?
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/committers
> Misc/developers.txt
> 
> The latter has the reason why they were added.

Thanks, that's helpful.

But that's manually maintained, right? I was hoping to get something 
generated from the svn configuration.

Unfortunately python-committers doesn't have real names for everyone, so 
it's impossible to match up developers.txt to email addresses to see 
who's missing.

We're missing at least 15 addresses from python-committers, just going 
by the counts.

-- 
Eric.

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Wed Mar  3 14:15:00 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:15:00 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com> 
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com> 
	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003030515q6fe9c0ecvd8cab310bb9d0ed0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 14:03, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
> Thanks, that's helpful.
>
> But that's manually maintained, right? I was hoping to get something
> generated from the svn configuration.
>
> Unfortunately python-committers doesn't have real names for everyone, so
> it's impossible to match up developers.txt to email addresses to see who's
> missing.
>
> We're missing at least 15 addresses from python-committers, just going by
> the counts.

Does this help?

http://hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/author-map?style=raw

Remind me to set some script up when we migrate to hg.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From jackdied at gmail.com  Wed Mar  3 14:16:36 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:16:36 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741003030516r4f9df98fvcef8b8dcefcfbdb4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
> Jack Diederich wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> We've been trying to ensure that everyone is on the [list]. To that end,
>>> is there
>>> somewhere I can regularly get an automated list of who has svn
>>> privileges?
>>
>> http://www.python.org/dev/committers
>> Misc/developers.txt
>>
>> The latter has the reason why they were added.
>
> But that's manually maintained, right? I was hoping to get something
> generated from the svn configuration.
>
> Unfortunately python-committers doesn't have real names for everyone, so
> it's impossible to match up developers.txt to email addresses to see who's
> missing.
>
> We're missing at least 15 addresses from python-committers, just going by
> the counts.
>
If we are missing 15 that is a 90% hit rate, which isn't too bad.
People occasionally *call me* about patches so even if the email addy
is out of date I think most committers are reachable.

-Jack

NB, googling "jack diederich cell" finds what you'd expect.

From eric at trueblade.com  Wed Mar  3 14:19:09 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 08:19:09 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003030515q6fe9c0ecvd8cab310bb9d0ed0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
	<ea2499da1003030515q6fe9c0ecvd8cab310bb9d0ed0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8E61CD.8050209@trueblade.com>

Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 14:03, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>> Thanks, that's helpful.
>>
>> But that's manually maintained, right? I was hoping to get something
>> generated from the svn configuration.
>>
>> Unfortunately python-committers doesn't have real names for everyone, so
>> it's impossible to match up developers.txt to email addresses to see who's
>> missing.
>>
>> We're missing at least 15 addresses from python-committers, just going by
>> the counts.
> 
> Does this help?
 >
 > http://hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/author-map?style=raw

Yes, very much. Thanks. I'll see if I can find out who's missing. If 
only mailman would give me a list, on one page, of all subscribers, I'd 
be set. Barry?

> Remind me to set some script up when we migrate to hg.

Can do.

-- 
Eric.

From amk at amk.ca  Wed Mar  3 14:57:10 2010
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:57:10 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <20100303135710.GA7768@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>

On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 08:03:43AM -0500, Eric Smith wrote:
> Jack Diederich wrote:
> But that's manually maintained, right? I was hoping to get something  
> generated from the svn configuration.

The SVN configuration comes from a set of SSH keys checked in to a
different SVN repository.  This second repository isn't publicly
available, but I can do an 'ls -1'.  This list is everyone who has commit 
access as of March 3 2010.

--amk

alex.martelli
alexandre.vassalotti
allison.randal
amaury.forgeotdarc
andrew.dalke
andrew.kuchling
andrew.macintyre
andrew.mcnamara
anthony.baxter
antoine.pitrou
armin.rigo
armin.ronacher
barry.warsaw
benjamin.peterson
bernhard.reiter
bill.janssen
bob.ippolito
brett.cannon
chris.monson
chris.withers
christian.heimes
christian.tismer
collin.winter
david.goodger
david.wolever
dirkjan.ochtman
doug.hellmann
eric.smith
erik.forsberg
ezio.melotti
facundo.batista
frank.wierzbicki
fred.drake
fredrik.lundh
georg.brandl
george.yoshida
gerhard.haering
greg.stein
greg.ward
gregor.lingl
gregory.p.smith
guido.van.rossum
guilherme.polo
gustavo.niemeyer
heiko.weinen
hirokazu.yamamoto
hyeshik.chang
jack.diederich
jack.jansen
jeff.rush
jeff.senn
jeffrey.yasskin
jeremy.hylton
jeroen.ruigrok
jerry.seutter
jesse.noller
jesus.cea
jim.baker
jim.fulton
john.benediktsson
josiah.carlson
ka-ping.yee
kristjan.jonsson
kurt.kaiser
larry.hastings
lars.gustaebel
marc-andre.lemburg
mark.dickinson
mark.hammond
mark.summerfield
martin.blais
martin.v.loewis
mateusz.rukowicz
matthias.klose
michael.foord
michael.hudson
michael.twomey
neal.norwitz
neil.schemenauer
nick.bastin
nick.coghlan
patrick.maupin
paul.dubois
paul.kippes
pete.shinners
peter.astrand
philip.jenvey
phillip.eby
r.david.murray
raymond.hettinger
richard.jones
richard.tew
robert.schuppenies
rodrigo.pimentel
ron.duplain
ronald.oussoren
runar.petursson
samuele.pedroni
sean.reifschneider
senthil.kumaran
sjoerd.mullender
skip.montanaro
stefan.krah
stefan.seefeld
steve.holden
steven.bethard
talin
tarek.ziade
thomas.heller
thomas.lee
thomas.wouters
tim.peters
travis.oliphant
trent.mick
trent.nelson
victor.stinner
vinay.sajip
walter.doerwald
ziga.seilnacht

From barry at python.org  Wed Mar  3 15:17:09 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:17:09 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <4B8E61CD.8050209@trueblade.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>
	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>
	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
	<ea2499da1003030515q6fe9c0ecvd8cab310bb9d0ed0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8E61CD.8050209@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <20100303091709.3217ae79@freewill.wooz.org>

On Mar 03, 2010, at 08:19 AM, Eric Smith wrote:

>Yes, very much. Thanks. I'll see if I can find out who's missing. If 
>only mailman would give me a list, on one page, of all subscribers, I'd 
>be set. Barry?

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at gmail.com>
Alexandre Vassalotti <alexandre at peadrop.com>
Amaury Forgeot d'Arc <amauryfa at gmail.com>
"Andrew M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca>
Andrew McNamara <andrewm at object-craft.com.au>
Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au>
anthony at interlink.com.au
Anthony Baxter <anthonybaxter at gmail.com>
archive at mail-archive.com
arigo at tunes.org
armin.ronacher at active-4.com
asmodai at in-nomine.org
Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>
Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org>
blais at furius.ca
bob at redivi.com
Brett Cannon <brett at python.org>
chris at simplistix.co.uk
collinw at gmail.com
dalke at dalkescientific.com
Mark Dickinson <dickinsm at gmail.com>
dinov at microsoft.com
Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan at ochtman.nl>
Matthias Klose <doko at debian.org>
Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
dynkin at gmail.com
Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com>
Ezio Melotti <ezio.melotti at gmail.com>
facundobatista at gmail.com
fdrake at acm.org
Florent Xicluna <florent.xicluna at gmail.com>
forsberg at efod.se
fredrik at pythonware.com
fwierzbicki at gmail.com
Gmane Administrator <gcpc-python-committers at m.gmane.org>
Georg Brandl <georg at python.org>
ggpolo at gmail.com
gh at ghaering.de
goodger at python.org
greg at krypto.org
gregor.lingl at aon.at
gstein at gmail.com
guido at python.org
hyeshik at gmail.com
jack.jansen at cwi.nl
Jack Diederich <jackdied at gmail.com>
Sean Reifschneider <jafo at tummy.com>
janssen at parc.com
jbaker at zyasoft.com
jcea at jcea.es
jeff at taupro.com
jeremy at alum.mit.edu
Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com>
Jesse Noller <jnoller at gmail.com>
john at fattoc.com
josiah.carlson at gmail.com
jseutter at gmail.com
Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin at gmail.com>
kbk at shore.net
kristjan at ccpgames.com
Larry Hastings <larry at hastings.org>
lars at gustaebel.de
lists at amk.ca
lists at cheimes.de
Marc-Andre Lemburg <mal at egenix.com>
mark at qtrac.eu
"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at v.loewis.de>
Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au>
Michael Foord <michael at voidspace.org.uk>
micktwomey at gmail.com
mwh at python.net
nas-python at arctrix.com
Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>
nick.bastin at gmail.com
Neal Norwitz <nnorwitz at gmail.com>
Travis Oliphant <oliphant.travis at ieee.org>
Senthil Kumaran <orsenthil at gmail.com>
pedronis at openend.se
"P.J. Eby" <pje at telecommunity.com>
pjenvey at underboss.org
Patrick Maupin <pmaupin at gmail.com>
python-committers-list at trentnelson.com
python-dev at zesty.ca
Raymond Hettinger <raymond.hettinger at gmail.com>
rbp at isnomore.net
"R. David Murray" <rdmurray at bitdance.com>
Richard Tew <richard.m.tew at gmail.com>
Robert Schuppenies <robert.schuppenies at gmail.com>
Ronald Oussoren <ronaldoussoren at mac.com>
senn at maya.com
shiblon at gmail.com
Sjoerd Mullender <sjoerd at acm.org>
Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net>
Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
Steven Bethard <steven.bethard at gmail.com>
talin at acm.org
theller at ctypes.org
thomas at python.org
Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com>
tismer at stackless.com
Trent Mick <trentm at activestate.com>
victor.stinner at haypocalc.com
walter at livinglogic.de
wolever at cs.toronto.edu
Tarek Ziade <ziade.tarek at gmail.com>
ziga.seilnacht at gmail.com
Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at red-dove.com>
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From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Wed Mar  3 15:37:00 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:37:00 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>
	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201003031537.00143.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le mercredi 03 mars 2010 13:30:23, Jesse Noller a ?crit :
> They're both on this list, right?

MvL gave me the commit access one month ago (at the end of January), but I 
only heard about the python-commiters some days ago: when Brett wrote an 
emailto the python-dev mailing list.

Brett added me yesterday, some hours just before *evil* commit.

You should maybe write a short procedure to add a new developer, especially 
don't forget to add him to the mailing list :-)
--
About the commit: I read somewhere that 2.6.5rc1 was release, but I forgot to 
not commit in 2.6 for minor bugs :-) I fixed 2 other bugs without backporting 
to 2.6, I will do it for all "my" issues after the 2.6.5 release.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar  3 20:24:02 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 20:24:02 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Unapproved commits after 2.6.5rc1
In-Reply-To: <4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
References: <20100303072831.61f9773f@freewill.wooz.org>	<FD6099C9-A2B5-42F2-B318-BB7817674B89@gmail.com>	<20100303073951.4927ada8@freewill.wooz.org>	<47908.63.251.87.214.1267620435.squirrel@mail.trueblade.com>	<b8e622741003030452u5f0c9ae6g2bbfde43dceb356e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8E5E2F.10204@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <4B8EB752.1070007@v.loewis.de>

Eric Smith wrote:
> Jack Diederich wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Eric Smith <eric at trueblade.com> wrote:
>>> We've been trying to ensure that everyone is on the [list]. To that
>>> end, is there
>>> somewhere I can regularly get an automated list of who has svn
>>> privileges?
>>
>> http://www.python.org/dev/committers
>> Misc/developers.txt
>>
>> The latter has the reason why they were added.
> 
> Thanks, that's helpful.
> 
> But that's manually maintained, right? 

/dev/committers is automatically generated, for all people who have ssh
keys installed.

Some of them are actually not supposed to commit to Python, but only to,
say, stackless.

Regards,
Martin

From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar  3 23:32:24 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:32:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
Message-ID: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>

I'm having some odd problems with my SSH key and Keychain which I hope someone
on this list can help with.

When I became a Python committer, I was using Windows, mostly, so I set up an
SSH key using PuTTY and Pageant which worked flawlessly.

More recently, I've being using Linux, mostly, as my primary development
environment, so I copied the key over from my Windows boxes. I can get access,
but I keep on getting repeatedly prompted for the passphrase.

I've installed Keychain and invoked it in my .bashrc, and whenever I open a
terminal session, it tells me that it found an existing ssh-agent and the
SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID seem to be correct. Yet, I get prompted for the
passphrase for every SVN operation. If I invoke ssh-add -L to see what keys have
been added, the original SSH key I copied over is there (there are two SSH keys,
not that this should cause problems: ~/.ssh/id_rsa holds the key I copied over
from Windows, and another more recent key I generated on my Linux host, which
I've stored as ~/.ssh/id_rsa_jaunty).

Anyone know what might be causing this?

Thanks for any help,

Vinay Sajip


From alexandre at peadrop.com  Thu Mar  4 03:28:32 2010
From: alexandre at peadrop.com (Alexandre Vassalotti)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 21:28:32 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I've installed Keychain and invoked it in my .bashrc, and whenever I open a
> terminal session, it tells me that it found an existing ssh-agent and the
> SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID seem to be correct.

Are you using Ubuntu? If so, Seahorse (the default key manager in
Ubuntu) should prompt you automatically for your passphrase and cache
it.  Keychain might be interfering with it, so try to uninstall it
first. Then verify in Applications ? Accessories ? Passwords and
Encryption Keys that Seahorse sees your SSH key.

I hope that helps,

-- Alexandre

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Thu Mar  4 04:39:51 2010
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:39:51 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100304033951.5138F1A7652@kimball.webabinitio.net>

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:32:24 +0000, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I've installed Keychain and invoked it in my .bashrc, and whenever I open a
> terminal session, it tells me that it found an existing ssh-agent and the
> SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID seem to be correct. Yet, I get prompted for the
> passphrase for every SVN operation. If I invoke ssh-add -L to see what keys have
> been added, the original SSH key I copied over is there (there are two SSH keys,
> not that this should cause problems: ~/.ssh/id_rsa holds the key I copied over
> from Windows, and another more recent key I generated on my Linux host, which
> I've stored as ~/.ssh/id_rsa_jaunty).
> 
> Anyone know what might be causing this?

Is it possible that the ssh being called by the svn command can't access
your environment to find the agent?  I'm not sure how that would happen,
though, unless you have a 'tunnels' section in your svn config.  Or you
have something wrapping your ssh command, but in that case you should
be seeing problems with using ssh directly (I assume you aren't?)

--David

From jackdied at gmail.com  Thu Mar  4 04:48:17 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:48:17 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <b8e622741003031948r7fce83t2e41483dc2c1559c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm having some odd problems with my SSH key and Keychain which I hope someone
> on this list can help with.
[snip]

Most of my problems with ssh are permissions related. Make sure the
directory and the individual files under .ssh are "-rw------" (it will
refuse to use them if the permissions are too permissive). If you are
getting failures trying ssh'ing in manually and adding "-v" flags
until you see something interesting.

-Jack

From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Mar  4 05:11:01 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:11:01 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
	<acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8F32D5.6040500@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/04/2010 03:28 AM, Alexandre Vassalotti wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I've installed Keychain and invoked it in my .bashrc, and whenever I open a
>> terminal session, it tells me that it found an existing ssh-agent and the
>> SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID seem to be correct.
> 
> Are you using Ubuntu? If so, Seahorse (the default key manager in
> Ubuntu) should prompt you automatically for your passphrase and cache
> it.  Keychain might be interfering with it, so try to uninstall it
> first. Then verify in Applications ? Accessories ? Passwords and
> Encryption Keys that Seahorse sees your SSH key.

I would use "ssh-agent" directly, via "ssh-add". It is what I do.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 09:46:06 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:46:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
	<acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100304T093345-877@post.gmane.org>

Alexandre Vassalotti <alexandre <at> peadrop.com> writes:

> 
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vinay Sajip wrote:
> > I've installed Keychain and invoked it in my .bashrc, and whenever I open a
> > terminal session, it tells me that it found an existing ssh-agent and the
> > SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID seem to be correct.
> 
> Are you using Ubuntu? If so, Seahorse (the default key manager in
> Ubuntu) should prompt you automatically for your passphrase and cache
> it.  Keychain might be interfering with it, so try to uninstall it
> first. Then verify in Applications ? Accessories ? Passwords and
> Encryption Keys that Seahorse sees your SSH key.
> 
> I hope that helps,
> 

Alexandre,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I'm on Ubuntu Jaunty, and at least part of the
problem seems to be that Seahorse can't import a key originally generated by
PuTTYgen. There's a bug in Ubuntu about it:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bug/252288

which was posted upstream to Gnome as

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551016

but marked as wontfix there because a Seahorse developer said "I believe
importing of SSH keys is possible now." Well, I wouldn't agree with that :-(

In any case, isn't the remembering of passphrases ssh-agent's job? I
uninstalled Keychain, rebooted and logged in. I've verified that ssh-agent is
running, and explicitly added the key using ssh-add. It still prompts for a
passhprase when I wouldn't expect it to:

vinay at eta-jaunty:~$ ssh-add -l
2048 [fingerprint removed] vinay at eta-jaunty (RSA)
vinay at eta-jaunty:~$ ssh-add ~/.ssh/id_rsa
Enter passphrase for /home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa: 
Identity added: /home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa (/home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa)
vinay at eta-jaunty:~$ ssh-add -l
2048 [fingerprint removed] vinay at eta-jaunty (RSA)
1023 [fingerprint removed] /home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa (RSA)
vinay at eta-jaunty:~$ cd projects/python
vinay at eta-jaunty:~/projects/python$ svn up
Enter passphrase for key '/home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa': 
At revision 78645.
vinay at eta-jaunty:~/projects/python$

The initial "vinay at eta-jaunty" key is an SSH key I created for use with
Launchpad, using Seahorse, and it shows this key in its UI - but not the
PuTTYgen-created key.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 09:48:10 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:48:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
	<acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8F32D5.6040500@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <loom.20100304T094619-687@post.gmane.org>

Jesus Cea <jcea <at> jcea.es> writes:

> 
> I would use "ssh-agent" directly, via "ssh-add". It is what I do.
> 

Hi Jesus,

Thanks for the response. I've tried that, with no luck. The key is added to
ssh-agent, which I verified using "ssh-add -l" - but I still get prompted for
the passphrase every time.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 09:51:12 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 08:51:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
	<20100304033951.5138F1A7652@kimball.webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <loom.20100304T094834-92@post.gmane.org>

R. David Murray <rdmurray <at> bitdance.com> writes:

> 
> Is it possible that the ssh being called by the svn command can't access
> your environment to find the agent?  I'm not sure how that would happen,
> though, unless you have a 'tunnels' section in your svn config.  Or you
> have something wrapping your ssh command, but in that case you should
> be seeing problems with using ssh directly (I assume you aren't?)
> 

Hi David,

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything special in my svn config (in fact
I haven't touched the default) and SSH is fine with the key - it's just that the
agent, while allowing me to add the key and responding with success, either
doesn't get asked to do its job by svn+ssh, or is not doing it, so causing
svn+ssh to prompt for the passphrase.

Regards,

Vinay


From mal at egenix.com  Thu Mar  4 09:58:54 2010
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:58:54 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100304T094619-687@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>	<acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8F32D5.6040500@jcea.es>
	<loom.20100304T094619-687@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B8F764E.5060405@egenix.com>

Vinay Sajip wrote:
> Jesus Cea <jcea <at> jcea.es> writes:
> 
>>
>> I would use "ssh-agent" directly, via "ssh-add". It is what I do.
>>
> 
> Hi Jesus,
> 
> Thanks for the response. I've tried that, with no luck. The key is added to
> ssh-agent, which I verified using "ssh-add -l" - but I still get prompted for
> the passphrase every time.

Try running ssh-agent in debug mode and see whether ssh has
problems connecting to it.

Also check the permissions on the paths of the Unix domain sockets
used by ssh-agent and ssh.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Mar 04 2010)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 10:06:17 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:06:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
	<b8e622741003031948r7fce83t2e41483dc2c1559c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100304T100113-397@post.gmane.org>

Jack Diederich <jackdied <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> Most of my problems with ssh are permissions related. Make sure the
> directory and the individual files under .ssh are "-rw------" (it will
> refuse to use them if the permissions are too permissive). If you are
> getting failures trying ssh'ing in manually and adding "-v" flags
> until you see something interesting.
> 

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the response. I checked the permissions and verified them to be 600
on ~/.ssh/id_rsa. Your suggestion to ssh -v is a good one, and it lets me in
despite there being debug messages about the key being invalid - so I don't see
how it could be! Transcript follows (a bit long, hopefully not tl;dr):

vinay at eta-jaunty:~/projects/python$ ssh -v pythondev at svn.python.org
OpenSSH_5.1p1 Debian-5ubuntu1, OpenSSL 0.9.8g 19 Oct 2007
debug1: Reading configuration data /home/vinay/.ssh/config
debug1: Applying options for svn.python.org
debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config
debug1: Applying options for *
debug1: Connecting to svn.python.org [82.94.164.164] port 22.
debug1: Connection established.
debug1: identity file /home/vinay/.ssh/identity type -1
debug1: identity file /home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa type -1
debug1: identity file /home/vinay/.ssh/id_dsa type -1
debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version [as below]
debug1: match: OpenSSH_5.1p1 Debian-5 pat OpenSSH*
debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0
debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.1p1 Debian-5ubuntu1
[handshake lines omitted]
debug1: Host 'svn.python.org' is known and matches the RSA host key.
debug1: Found key in /home/vinay/.ssh/known_hosts:2
debug1: ssh_rsa_verify: signature correct
[handshake lines omitted]
debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
debug1: Next authentication method: publickey
debug1: Offering public key: vinay at eta-jaunty
debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
debug1: Offering public key: /home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa
debug1: Remote: Forced command: [...]svnserve [...] --tunnel-user 'vinay.sajip'
[forwarding info omitted]
debug1: Server accepts key: pkalg ssh-rsa blen 148
debug1: Remote: Forced command: [...]svnserve [...] --tunnel-user 'vinay.sajip'
[forwarding info omitted]
debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
debug1: Trying private key: /home/vinay/.ssh/identity
debug1: Trying private key: /home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa
debug1: PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
debug1: read PEM private key done: type <unknown>
Enter passphrase for key '/home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa': 
debug1: PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
debug1: read PEM private key done: type <unknown>
Enter passphrase for key '/home/vinay/.ssh/id_rsa': 
debug1: read PEM private key done: type RSA
debug1: Remote: Forced command: [...]svnserve [...] --tunnel-user 'vinay.sajip'
[forwarding info omitted]
debug1: Authentication succeeded (publickey).
debug1: channel 0: new [client-session]
debug1: Requesting no-more-sessions at openssh.com
debug1: Entering interactive session.
debug1: Sending environment.
debug1: Sending env LANG = en_GB.UTF-8
PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
[success message omitted]

I set up my ~/.ssh/config file to say User vinay.sajip under Host
svn.python.org, just in case it was an issue related to the different user name
on the local/remote system.

I'm still stumped!

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 10:31:28 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:31:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>	<acd65fa21003031828r5fed6552t9038a56fd3c9ab10@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8F32D5.6040500@jcea.es>
	<loom.20100304T094619-687@post.gmane.org>
	<4B8F764E.5060405@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100304T102853-434@post.gmane.org>

M.-A. Lemburg <mal <at> egenix.com> writes:

> 
> Try running ssh-agent in debug mode and see whether ssh has
> problems connecting to it.
> 

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the suggestion. If I kill the existing agent and start a new one
with -d, it works! But if I try again after starting without -d, it stops
working again!

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From jcea at jcea.es  Thu Mar  4 14:36:32 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 14:36:32 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100304T100113-397@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>	<b8e622741003031948r7fce83t2e41483dc2c1559c@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20100304T100113-397@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B8FB760.1040703@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/04/2010 10:06 AM, Vinay Sajip wrote:

> Thanks for the response. I checked the permissions and verified them to be 600
> on ~/.ssh/id_rsa. Your suggestion to ssh -v is a good one, and it lets me in
> despite there being debug messages about the key being invalid - so I don't see
> how it could be!

Do you have access to any other machine v?a SSH?. I would try to
generate a new SSH key in Ubuntu. If that solves the issue connecting to
ther machines, I would ask python commint gatekeeper to change your SSH
commit key. Do the test against a machine you can update new SSH keys to.

PS: Just for trying, check if your SSH key has \013 inside (Carriage
Return). If it does, *DO A COPY* and delete those special chars, just
for testing.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 15:16:54 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:16:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>	<b8e622741003031948r7fce83t2e41483dc2c1559c@mail.gmail.com>
	<loom.20100304T100113-397@post.gmane.org>
	<4B8FB760.1040703@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <loom.20100304T151349-654@post.gmane.org>

Jesus Cea <jcea <at> jcea.es> writes:

> Do you have access to any other machine v?a SSH?. I would try to
> generate a new SSH key in Ubuntu. If that solves the issue connecting to
> ther machines, I would ask python commint gatekeeper to change your SSH
> commit key. Do the test against a machine you can update new SSH keys to.

Well, I could use the vinay at eta-jaunty key which I generated on the machine for
access to Launchpad. I was hoping to avoid having to change the key (unless they
can add the key rather than replacing the old one - I may still need to access
the repo from my Windows environments).

> PS: Just for trying, check if your SSH key has \013 inside (Carriage
> Return). If it does, *DO A COPY* and delete those special chars, just
> for testing.

I thought of EOLs and checked - '\r' in open('id_rsa', 'rb').read() => False :-)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From brett at python.org  Thu Mar  4 21:05:58 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:05:58 -0800
Subject: [python-committers] SSH keys and Keychain
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100304T151349-654@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100303T232048-242@post.gmane.org>
	<b8e622741003031948r7fce83t2e41483dc2c1559c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<loom.20100304T100113-397@post.gmane.org> <4B8FB760.1040703@jcea.es> 
	<loom.20100304T151349-654@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bbaeab101003041205g4a35851el8bfa30d7535c42c6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 06:16, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Jesus Cea <jcea <at> jcea.es> writes:
>
> > Do you have access to any other machine v?a SSH?. I would try to
> > generate a new SSH key in Ubuntu. If that solves the issue connecting to
> > ther machines, I would ask python commint gatekeeper to change your SSH
> > commit key. Do the test against a machine you can update new SSH keys to.
>
> Well, I could use the vinay at eta-jaunty key which I generated on the
> machine for
> access to Launchpad. I was hoping to avoid having to change the key (unless
> they
> can add the key rather than replacing the old one - I may still need to
> access
> the repo from my Windows environments).
>

Keys can be added; you are not limited to a single SSH key to access the
repo.

-Brett




>
> > PS: Just for trying, check if your SSH key has \013 inside (Carriage
> > Return). If it does, *DO A COPY* and delete those special chars, just
> > for testing.
>
> I thought of EOLs and checked - '\r' in open('id_rsa', 'rb').read() =>
> False :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From benjamin at python.org  Sat Mar  6 21:23:31 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:23:31 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] doing 2.7a4 and 3.1.2rc1
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003061223k1379519ofa777ad489159237@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to start working on these two releases, so please refrain
from making checkins in the trunk or the 3.1 branch. Thanks!

-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From benjamin at python.org  Sat Mar  6 23:46:06 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 16:46:06 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] branches open
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003061446i4919fdet94043514e76f070c@mail.gmail.com>

With 3.1.2rc2 and 2.7a4 out, the trunk and the 3.1 branch are open to commits.

-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From barry at python.org  Sun Mar  7 21:56:12 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 15:56:12 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 rc 2
Message-ID: <20100307155612.59d9db94@heresy.wooz.org>

We are definitely going to need a 2.6.5 rc 2.  We've had a number of critical
issues fixed since rc1 and we have two more critical patches approved for
landing which fix issues on OS X.  I've given Ronald approval in the tracker
to land these two patches.

8066 OS X installer: readline module breaks when targeting on 10.5 or 10.6
8067 OS X Installer: build errors on 10.6 when targeting 10.4 and earlier

These are the only two release blockers left for 2.6.5 (at the moment).  I
would like to cut the rc2 release tomorrow, Monday 2010-03-08, so if anybody
knows of any other bugs you think must go into 2.6.5, mark them release
blockers now so that I can evaluate them.

I really don't want there to be an rc3, and I'd still like to get 2.6.5 final
out on Monday 2010-03-15.  We'll see.

-Barry
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From barry at python.org  Tue Mar  9 13:56:36 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 07:56:36 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 rc 2
Message-ID: <20100309075636.09f52b27@heresy.wooz.org>

Hi Python hackateers!

It looks like we finally have no more release blockers for 2.6.5rc2.  I would
like to tag the tree tonight for rc2 so that Martin can build the Windows
installer for a release tomorrow.  I am also moving the final release back to
Friday March 19.

-Barry
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From barry at python.org  Tue Mar  9 23:00:43 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:00:43 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] release26-maint freeze for 2.6.5rc2 tagging
Message-ID: <20100309170043.614346bf@heresy.wooz.org>

There are currently no showstopper bugs for 2.6.5rc2, so as previously
threatened, I am going to tag the release.  Please, no commits (even merge
blocks) on release26-maint until I do.  Ping me on #python-dev if necessary.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Tue Mar  9 23:37:28 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 17:37:28 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 -
	python/tags/r265rc2
Message-ID: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>

Martin, do you magic! :)
-B
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From jackdied at gmail.com  Wed Mar 10 01:35:58 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 19:35:58 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 rc 2
In-Reply-To: <20100309075636.09f52b27@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <20100309075636.09f52b27@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <b8e622741003091635n3d589b3br3e1949f0e7101165@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> Hi Python hackateers!
>
> It looks like we finally have no more release blockers for 2.6.5rc2. ?I would
> like to tag the tree tonight for rc2 so that Martin can build the Windows
> installer for a release tomorrow. ?I am also moving the final release back to
> Friday March 19.

Someone just commented on http://bugs.python.org/issue5228
(making functools.partial picklable to play nicer with the
multiprocessing module)

I committed it a year ago to the trunk but didn't backport it to
26maint.  Should I tell the guy that isn't the kind of thing we
backport, that it is too late for a release candidate, or something
else?

-Jack

From jackdied at gmail.com  Wed Mar 10 01:39:40 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 19:39:40 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 rc 2
In-Reply-To: <b8e622741003091635n3d589b3br3e1949f0e7101165@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100309075636.09f52b27@heresy.wooz.org>
	<b8e622741003091635n3d589b3br3e1949f0e7101165@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741003091639u16758821uda78e4b0cf8dd48@mail.gmail.com>

Nevermind, I just read the full bug report and sure enough "Features
such as this will not be
backported to the 2.x branch" appears right there in the middle.

-Jack

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Jack Diederich <jackdied at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>> Hi Python hackateers!
>>
>> It looks like we finally have no more release blockers for 2.6.5rc2. ?I would
>> like to tag the tree tonight for rc2 so that Martin can build the Windows
>> installer for a release tomorrow. ?I am also moving the final release back to
>> Friday March 19.
>
> Someone just commented on http://bugs.python.org/issue5228
> (making functools.partial picklable to play nicer with the
> multiprocessing module)
>
> I committed it a year ago to the trunk but didn't backport it to
> 26maint. ?Should I tell the guy that isn't the kind of thing we
> backport, that it is too late for a release candidate, or something
> else?
>
> -Jack
>

From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Mar 10 03:13:05 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:13:05 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8B85F9.8060002@trueblade.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
Message-ID: <4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/02/2010 02:21 PM, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 04:36:42AM +0100, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> I can't wait for HG. I have read the main cutprit for the delay is the
>> line-ending issue with MS Windows developers. Is there anything else
>> holding us back?.
> 
> Note that, if you'd just like to use Mercurial for your own
> convenience while developing, the mirrored repositories at
> http://hg.python.org/ are up-to-date; you just can't push changes
> back.  I have a regex patch that was developed using an hg checkout of
> the Python source tree, with my changes layered atop it using the mq
> extension.

This is a really excellent suggestion, and the perfect excuse to get
familiar with MQ, that I haven't tried yet.

I have a strange error:

"""
[jcea at babylon5 home]$ hg clone http://hg.python.org/cpython/
destination directory: cpython
requesting all changes
abort: HTTP Error 414: Request-URI Too Large
"""

Using an sniffer, I see the request is actually huge. I am using
Mercurial 1.5.

I can pull individual branches, with "-b" flag
(http://hg.python.org/cpython/branches), but I have the same issue doing
a "pull" later.

It is not possible to download the full repository?. I could update the
clone branch by branch, but must be a better way...

Suggestions?.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Wed Mar 10 08:29:51 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:29:51 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org> <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 03:13, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
> This is a really excellent suggestion, and the perfect excuse to get
> familiar with MQ, that I haven't tried yet.
>
> I have a strange error:
>
> """
> [jcea at babylon5 home]$ hg clone http://hg.python.org/cpython/
> destination directory: cpython
> requesting all changes
> abort: HTTP Error 414: Request-URI Too Large
> """
>
> Using an sniffer, I see the request is actually huge. I am using
> Mercurial 1.5.
>
> I can pull individual branches, with "-b" flag
> (http://hg.python.org/cpython/branches), but I have the same issue doing
> a "pull" later.
>
> It is not possible to download the full repository?. I could update the
> clone branch by branch, but must be a better way...
>
> Suggestions?.

Yes, so, this is the result of me not having fully processed the
repository yet to prune or merge some branches. (We're also treating
it as a bug that we'd like to get fixed in 1.6, but protocol changes
aren't very easy due to backwards compatibility concerns.)

So, in the meantime, if you have ssh access, make your clone via ssh.
Otherwise, clone a single branch, like this:
http://hg.python.org/cpython#py3k, and that should prevent you from
getting the error even on subsequent pulls.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 10 09:09:46 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:09:46 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823
	-	python/tags/r265rc2
In-Reply-To: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Martin, do you magic! :)

I have uploaded the files, and added the signatures. I have not changed
the content file; the relevant data are

3b47876d4dc3ab064926345eb76a61d2 15422464 python-2.6.5rc2.amd64.msi
e6b561ccf166aec5de4daa37a465e1c1 14886912 python-2.6.5rc2.msi

I'll have to change the maintenance branch to record the UUID that I
have assigned to these releases (forgot to add one last week).

Regards,
Martin

From jcea at jcea.es  Wed Mar 10 16:30:36 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:30:36 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>
	<ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es>

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On 03/10/2010 08:29 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> So, in the meantime, if you have ssh access, make your clone via ssh.

Could you possibly the exact command to use to clone cpython HG
repository?. I can't find it via Google.

> Otherwise, clone a single branch, like this:
> http://hg.python.org/cpython#py3k, and that should prevent you from
> getting the error even on subsequent pulls.

I tried this, but I get the error again, unless I do a "pull" for that
branch only. A "pull" with no options gives the error.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From barry at python.org  Wed Mar 10 16:43:26 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:43:26 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>
	<ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20100310104326.40867583@heresy.wooz.org>

On Mar 10, 2010, at 04:30 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:

>Could you possibly the exact command to use to clone cpython HG
>repository?. I can't find it via Google.

Why not create this page and fill in the details there?

http://wiki.python.org/moin/Mercurial

-Barry
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From barry at python.org  Wed Mar 10 17:42:43 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:42:43 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 -
 python/tags/r265rc2
In-Reply-To: <4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>

On Mar 10, 2010, at 09:09 AM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>I'll have to change the maintenance branch to record the UUID that I
>have assigned to these releases (forgot to add one last week).

Martin: 2.6.5rc2 is ready to be announced, so feel free to do this.

All: The release26-maint branch is now semi-thawed.  I'm going to be even more
strict about commits to the branch now because I really don't want to release
an rc3 unless absolutely necessary.  2.6.5 final is scheduled for 2010-03-19.
Thanks everyone for the great work!

-Barry
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From jcea at jcea.es  Sat Mar 13 00:11:51 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:11:51 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>	<ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <4B9ACA37.8090201@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/10/2010 04:30 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
> On 03/10/2010 08:29 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
>> So, in the meantime, if you have ssh access, make your clone via ssh.
> 
> Could you possibly the exact command to use to clone cpython HG
> repository?. I can't find it via Google.

I still don't know how I can clone the cpython repository. Regular clone
doesn't work with current repository state. Dirkjan commented about
cloning via SSH, and I have a SSH commit key, but I don't know what
command to use...

Help!.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sat Mar 13 04:01:02 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:01:02 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B9ACA37.8090201@jcea.es>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>
	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>
	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>
	<ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es> <4B9ACA37.8090201@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20100312220102.0d2e5bce@msiwind>

Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:11:51 +0100,
Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> a ?crit :
> 
> I still don't know how I can clone the cpython repository. Regular
> clone doesn't work with current repository state.

If you don't need to push back to the Mercurial repositories, you can
use the "other" mirrors at http://code.python.org/hg

(e.g.: `hg clone http://code.python.org/hg/trunk/`)

From jcea at jcea.es  Sat Mar 13 04:50:19 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:50:19 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <20100312220102.0d2e5bce@msiwind>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com>	<52dc1c821003010922s17e967d2v52837ad98980c2a9@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8BF9E1.4060306@trueblade.com>	<bbaeab101003011240u63e9b3a4m7863a8ebc7b6f7f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com>	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org>	<4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es>	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es>	<ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com>	<4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es>
	<4B9ACA37.8090201@jcea.es> <20100312220102.0d2e5bce@msiwind>
Message-ID: <4B9B0B7B.70509@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/13/2010 04:01 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:11:51 +0100,
> Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> a ?crit :
>>
>> I still don't know how I can clone the cpython repository. Regular
>> clone doesn't work with current repository state.
> 
> If you don't need to push back to the Mercurial repositories, you can
> use the "other" mirrors at http://code.python.org/hg
> 
> (e.g.: `hg clone http://code.python.org/hg/trunk/`)

Thanks, Antoine. Those "mirrors" are not equivalent because they keep
different branches in different repositories (compared with the single
repository with named branches inside, in the "official" HG), but they
are good enough. Thanks. In fact I am not sure this approach is even
better, if the respositories share a common parent, so you can move
patches around.

Now I have to master the MQ extension :).

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From barry at python.org  Sat Mar 13 17:51:47 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:51:47 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] r78923 - in
	python/branches/release26-maint: Doc/Makefile
	Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>

I'm not necessarily saying these shouldn't go into 2.6.5, but this late in the release cycle, every change needs to be justified.  My preferred way of doing so is by filing a release blocker issue stating and backing up the requested change.  We can then discuss any potential impact on release testing and schedule.  I'm fine with one issue if all these commits to the release26-maint branch are for the same issue.

Georg, please file that bug so we can formally decide whether or not to include these in 2.6.5 final, and whether or not they require a 2.6.5 rc 3 (which as you know I really don't want to do! ;)

Thanks,
-Barry

Begin forwarded message:

> From: georg.brandl <python-checkins at python.org>
> Date: March 13, 2010 8:42:13 AM EST
> To: python-checkins at python.org
> Subject: [Python-checkins] r78923 - in python/branches/release26-maint: Doc/Makefile Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
> message-id: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1 at mail.python.org>
> 
> Author: georg.brandl
> Date: Sat Mar 13 14:42:13 2010
> New Revision: 78923
> 
> Log:
> Merged revisions 78921 via svnmerge from 
> svn+ssh://pythondev at svn.python.org/python/trunk
> 
> ........
>  r78921 | georg.brandl | 2010-03-13 14:39:46 +0100 (Sa, 13 M?r 2010) | 1 line
> 
>  Change/fix handling of docs download location: for daily builds, put them right next to the HTML.
> ........
> 
> 
> Modified:
>   python/branches/release26-maint/   (props changed)
>   python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/Makefile
>   python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
> 
> Modified: python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/Makefile
> ==============================================================================
> --- python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/Makefile	(original)
> +++ python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/Makefile	Sat Mar 13 14:42:13 2010
> @@ -157,16 +157,17 @@
> check:
> 	$(PYTHON) tools/rstlint.py -i tools
> 
> -# Targets for automatic doc build
> +# Targets for daily automated doc build
> 
> # for development releases: always build
> autobuild-dev:
> 	make update
> -	make dist
> +	make dist SPHINXOPTS='-A daily=1'
> 
> -# for stable releases: only build if not in development mode
> +# for stable releases: only build if not in pre-release stage (alpha, beta, rc)
> autobuild-stable:
> 	@case $(DISTVERSION) in *[abc]*) \
> -		echo "Not building; not a release version.";  exit 1;; \
> +		echo "Not building; $(DISTVERSION) is not a release version."; \
> +		exit 1;; \
> 	esac
> 	@make autobuild-dev
> 
> Modified: python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
> ==============================================================================
> --- python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html	(original)
> +++ python/branches/release26-maint/Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html	Sat Mar 13 14:42:13 2010
> @@ -1,15 +1,14 @@
> {% extends "layout.html" %}
> {% set title = 'Download' %}
> -{% set dlbase = 'http://docs.python.org/ftp/python/doc/current' %}
> -{% block body %}
> +{% if daily is defined %}
> +  {% set dlbase = pathto('archives', 1) %}
> +{% else %}
> +  {% set dlbase = 'http://docs.python.org/ftp/python/doc/' + release %}
> +{% endif %}
> 
> +{% block body %}
> <h1>Download Python {{ release }} Documentation</h1>
> 
> -{% if 'a' in release or 'b' in release or 'c' in release %}
> -<p>We don't package the documentation for development releases for download.
> -  Downloads will be available for the final release.</p>
> -
> -{% else %}
> {% if last_updated %}<p><b>Last updated on: {{ last_updated }}.</b></p>{% endif %}
> 
> <p>To download an archive containing all the documents for this version of
> @@ -55,6 +54,4 @@
> 
> <p>If you have comments or suggestions for the Python documentation, please send
> email to <a href="mailto:docs at python.org">docs at python.org</a>.</p>
> -{% endif %}
> -
> {% endblock %}
> _______________________________________________
> Python-checkins mailing list
> Python-checkins at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-checkins


From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sat Mar 13 19:11:11 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:11:11 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] r78923 - in
 python/branches/release26-maint: Doc/Makefile
 Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
In-Reply-To: <87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>
	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>
Message-ID: <hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 13.03.2010 17:51, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> I'm not necessarily saying these shouldn't go into 2.6.5, but this late in
> the release cycle, every change needs to be justified.  My preferred way of
> doing so is by filing a release blocker issue stating and backing up the
> requested change.  We can then discuss any potential impact on release
> testing and schedule.  I'm fine with one issue if all these commits to the
> release26-maint branch are for the same issue.

> Georg, please file that bug so we can formally decide whether or not to
> include these in 2.6.5 final, and whether or not they require a 2.6.5 rc 3
> (which as you know I really don't want to do! ;)

No need to file a new issue -- I've promoted 8111 to release blocker.
I've added an explanation and a collective diff.  No further RC is needed.

Sorry for directly committing this, but I felt it was within my disgression
as Documentation Expert and just fair -- after all PEP 101 states you have
to get my approval during the release process, which I didn't see for
these RCs :)

cheers,
Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.


From jcea at jcea.es  Sat Mar 13 20:42:33 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:42:33 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 -
	python/tags/r265rc2
In-Reply-To: <20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/10/2010 05:42 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> All: The release26-maint branch is now semi-thawed.  I'm going to be even more
> strict about commits to the branch now because I really don't want to release
> an rc3 unless absolutely necessary.  2.6.5 final is scheduled for 2010-03-19.

I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a trivial
fix a couple of lines long only.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sat Mar 13 21:48:59 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:48:59 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 -
 python/tags/r265rc2
In-Reply-To: <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20100313154859.28e0d591@msiwind>

Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:42:33 +0100,
Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> a ?crit :
> 
> I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a
> trivial fix a couple of lines long only.

We have lots of "trivial" fixes in the tracker, though.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Mar 13 21:58:52 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:58:52 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 -
	python/tags/r265rc2
In-Reply-To: <20100313154859.28e0d591@msiwind>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313154859.28e0d591@msiwind>
Message-ID: <4B9BFC8C.7010907@v.loewis.de>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:42:33 +0100,
> Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> a ?crit :
>> I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a
>> trivial fix a couple of lines long only.
> 
> We have lots of "trivial" fixes in the tracker, though.

It's not a regression from 2.6.4, so it's clearly out of scope for
2.6.5, IMO.

Regards,
Martin

From barry at python.org  Sat Mar 13 23:25:16 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:25:16 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r78823 -
 python/tags/r265rc2
In-Reply-To: <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>

On Mar 13, 2010, at 08:42 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:

>I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a trivial
>fix a couple of lines long only.

These can be addressed for 2.6.6.

-Barry
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From barry at python.org  Sun Mar 14 00:08:37 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:08:37 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] r78923 - in
 python/branches/release26-maint: Doc/Makefile
 Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
In-Reply-To: <hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>
	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>
	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>

On Mar 13, 2010, at 07:11 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:

>No need to file a new issue -- I've promoted 8111 to release blocker.
>I've added an explanation and a collective diff.  No further RC is needed.

Thanks; I've accepted and closed the issue.

>Sorry for directly committing this, but I felt it was within my disgression
>as Documentation Expert and just fair -- after all PEP 101 states you have
>to get my approval during the release process, which I didn't see for
>these RCs :)

This is true. :)  I really appreciate the fix, and you're definitely right
that it's your discretion to make these commits.  I'm just being overly
paranoid during rc2->final because I'm really hoping to avoid an rc3.  For me,
your bug report was perfect because it explained what and why you were doing
it, and that you're confident an rc3 isn't needed.  But I want to make sure
that you're cool with the process, so let me know if you think I went too far.

-Barry
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From jcea at jcea.es  Sun Mar 14 00:10:25 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:10:25 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open? (was: Re: Fw: [Python-checkins]
 r78823 - python/tags/r265rc2)
In-Reply-To: <20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/13/2010 11:25 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 08:42 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
> 
>> I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a trivial
>> fix a couple of lines long only.
> 
> These can be addressed for 2.6.6.

Your word is my command, Barry.

What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2, since the
rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits the 6th march,
but I haven't seen another message opening the gates again...

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From benjamin at python.org  Sun Mar 14 00:19:39 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:19:39 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open? (was: Re: Fw:
	[Python-checkins] r78823 - python/tags/r265rc2)
In-Reply-To: <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>

2010/3/13 Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 03/13/2010 11:25 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 08:42 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
>>
>>> I was wondering about http://bugs.python.org/issue3928 . It is a trivial
>>> fix a couple of lines long only.
>>
>> These can be addressed for 2.6.6.
>
> Your word is my command, Barry.
>
> What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2, since the
> rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits the 6th march,
> but I haven't seen another message opening the gates again...

As Martin pointed out, I don't think this patch is acceptable for a
bug fix release.



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Mar 14 00:24:43 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:24:43 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open? (was: Re: Fw:
 [Python-checkins] r78823 - python/tags/r265rc2)
In-Reply-To: <1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>

Le Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:19:39 -0600,
Benjamin Peterson <benjamin at python.org> a ?crit :
> >
> > What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2,
> > since the rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits
> > the 6th march, but I haven't seen another message opening the gates
> > again...
> 
> As Martin pointed out, I don't think this patch is acceptable for a
> bug fix release.

I would say the patch is acceptable for a bugfix release, just not one
in release candidate status.

Regards

Antoine.

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Mar 14 00:35:15 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:35:15 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] r78923 - in
 python/branches/release26-maint: Doc/Makefile
 Doc/tools/sphinxext/download.html
In-Reply-To: <20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.03.2010 00:08, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 07:11 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
> 
>>No need to file a new issue -- I've promoted 8111 to release blocker.
>>I've added an explanation and a collective diff.  No further RC is needed.
> 
> Thanks; I've accepted and closed the issue.
> 
>>Sorry for directly committing this, but I felt it was within my disgression
>>as Documentation Expert and just fair -- after all PEP 101 states you have
>>to get my approval during the release process, which I didn't see for
>>these RCs :)
> 
> This is true. :)  I really appreciate the fix, and you're definitely right
> that it's your discretion to make these commits.  I'm just being overly
> paranoid during rc2->final because I'm really hoping to avoid an rc3.  For me,
> your bug report was perfect because it explained what and why you were doing
> it, and that you're confident an rc3 isn't needed.  But I want to make sure
> that you're cool with the process, so let me know if you think I went too far.

No, I don't -- I quite understand that you want to know what's going on in
"your" branch so close to the final, and I should have known that.  I'll be
in the same position soon for 3.2.  So, thanks for bringing it up.

cheers,
Georg


-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 14 00:38:16 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:38:16 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>
Message-ID: <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>

>>> What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2,
>>> since the rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits
>>> the 6th march, but I haven't seen another message opening the gates
>>> again...
>> As Martin pointed out, I don't think this patch is acceptable for a
>> bug fix release.
> 
> I would say the patch is acceptable for a bugfix release, just not one
> in release candidate status.

That's what I meant as well.

Martin

From benjamin at python.org  Sun Mar 14 00:40:42 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:40:42 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>

2010/3/13 "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>:
>>>> What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2,
>>>> since the rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits
>>>> the 6th march, but I haven't seen another message opening the gates
>>>> again...
>>> As Martin pointed out, I don't think this patch is acceptable for a
>>> bug fix release.
>>
>> I would say the patch is acceptable for a bugfix release, just not one
>> in release candidate status.
>
> That's what I meant as well.

Very well then, let's wait for 3.1.3.



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Mar 14 00:40:36 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:40:36 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Frozen branches in Hg
In-Reply-To: <hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>	<20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>
	<hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.03.2010 00:35, schrieb Georg Brandl:
> Am 14.03.2010 00:08, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
>> On Mar 13, 2010, at 07:11 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>> 
>>>No need to file a new issue -- I've promoted 8111 to release blocker.
>>>I've added an explanation and a collective diff.  No further RC is needed.
>> 
>> Thanks; I've accepted and closed the issue.
>> 
>>>Sorry for directly committing this, but I felt it was within my disgression
>>>as Documentation Expert and just fair -- after all PEP 101 states you have
>>>to get my approval during the release process, which I didn't see for
>>>these RCs :)
>> 
>> This is true. :)  I really appreciate the fix, and you're definitely right
>> that it's your discretion to make these commits.  I'm just being overly
>> paranoid during rc2->final because I'm really hoping to avoid an rc3.  For me,
>> your bug report was perfect because it explained what and why you were doing
>> it, and that you're confident an rc3 isn't needed.  But I want to make sure
>> that you're cool with the process, so let me know if you think I went too far.
> 
> No, I don't -- I quite understand that you want to know what's going on in
> "your" branch so close to the final, and I should have known that.  I'll be
> in the same position soon for 3.2.  So, thanks for bringing it up.

Thinking of that a bit more: after the Hg transition, shouldn't we be able to
really freeze a branch that is in pre-release approval-needed mode?  It is
trivial for anyone to commit a fix to their own branch, and then instead of
pushing they'd have to notify the release manager to pull from them, as the
only person who can push to the frozen branch.

Dirkjan, is that feasible?

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Mar 14 00:53:37 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:53:37 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Frozen branches in Hg
In-Reply-To: <hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>	<20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>	<hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B9C2581.3010706@v.loewis.de>

> Thinking of that a bit more: after the Hg transition, shouldn't we be able to
> really freeze a branch that is in pre-release approval-needed mode?  It is
> trivial for anyone to commit a fix to their own branch, and then instead of
> pushing they'd have to notify the release manager to pull from them, as the
> only person who can push to the frozen branch.

FWIW, it would be possible to freeze a branch also in subversion, today.

As for pulling from committer branches: that would require that
committers host their branches somewhere.

Regards,
Martin

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Mar 14 01:03:00 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:03:00 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Frozen branches in Hg
In-Reply-To: <4B9C2581.3010706@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>	<20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>	<hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<4B9C2581.3010706@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <hnh967$6uu$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 14.03.2010 00:53, schrieb "Martin v. L?wis":
>> Thinking of that a bit more: after the Hg transition, shouldn't we be able to
>> really freeze a branch that is in pre-release approval-needed mode?  It is
>> trivial for anyone to commit a fix to their own branch, and then instead of
>> pushing they'd have to notify the release manager to pull from them, as the
>> only person who can push to the frozen branch.
> 
> FWIW, it would be possible to freeze a branch also in subversion, today.

Yes, but I'm sure we don't want to bother setting that up so close to the
switch :)

> As for pulling from committer branches: that would require that
> committers host their branches somewhere.

Yes.  But that's no big deal, isn't it?  They can use a public hg hoster
like bitbucket, or we can have a facility on hg.python.org -- it doesn't
really matter where, it is always very easy to publish a hg branch.

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Mar 14 01:07:35 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:07:35 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Frozen branches in Hg
In-Reply-To: <hnh967$6uu$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>
	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org>
	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org>
	<hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org> <hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<4B9C2581.3010706@v.loewis.de> <hnh967$6uu$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100313190735.32944b94@msiwind>

Le Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:03:00 +0100,
Georg Brandl <g.brandl at gmx.net> a ?crit :
> 
> > As for pulling from committer branches: that would require that
> > committers host their branches somewhere.
> 
> Yes.  But that's no big deal, isn't it?  They can use a public hg
> hoster like bitbucket, or we can have a facility on hg.python.org --
> it doesn't really matter where, it is always very easy to publish a
> hg branch.

Or people can just use "hg out" or "hg export".


From jcea at jcea.es  Sun Mar 14 03:14:17 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 03:14:17 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<4B9753CA.8090509@v.loewis.de>	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>
	<4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/14/2010 12:40 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2010/3/13 "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de>:
>>>>> What about 3.1.3, Benjamin?. I guess it is too late for 3.1.2,
>>>>> since the rc is out. I saw your message asking for stopping commits
>>>>> the 6th march, but I haven't seen another message opening the gates
>>>>> again...
>>>> As Martin pointed out, I don't think this patch is acceptable for a
>>>> bug fix release.
>>>
>>> I would say the patch is acceptable for a bugfix release, just not one
>>> in release candidate status.
>>
>> That's what I meant as well.
> 
> Very well then, let's wait for 3.1.3.

That was what I was asking.

I will commit the patch to trunk and py3k, and to 2.6 and 3.1 branch
after 2.6.5 and 3.1.2 are out.

Should I commit now to trunk/py3k and later to 2.6/3.1, or wait to do
the four commits at the same time?. Don't want to miss the 2.7beta.

Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From benjamin at python.org  Sun Mar 14 03:35:55 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:35:55 -0600
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>

2010/3/13 Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es>:
> I will commit the patch to trunk and py3k, and to 2.6 and 3.1 branch
> after 2.6.5 and 3.1.2 are out.
>
> Should I commit now to trunk/py3k and later to 2.6/3.1, or wait to do
> the four commits at the same time?. Don't want to miss the 2.7beta.

That's up to you.

>
> Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)

How so?



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From jcea at jcea.es  Sun Mar 14 03:52:01 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 03:52:01 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>
	<4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/14/2010 03:35 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>> Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)
> 
> How so?

The release manager could clone the repository to getting it ready for
release, while the main repository accepts new changesets. The point
would be not stopping commits, ever.

When done, the release manager could tag the release in his/her clone
and push the changes to the main branch, like any other commit.

If the release manager needs some patches for the main repository,
he/she can cherrypick them manually or using a tool like
http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/TransplantExtension .

The devil is in the details, like how the release manager repository
clone accesses buildbots, for instance.

This is possible workflow. I don't know what is the actual plan, yet.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From barry at python.org  Sun Mar 14 20:22:52 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:22:52 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <20100314152252.4db6edeb@heresy.wooz.org>

On Mar 14, 2010, at 03:52 AM, Jesus Cea wrote:

>The release manager could clone the repository to getting it ready for
>release, while the main repository accepts new changesets. The point
>would be not stopping commits, ever.
>
>When done, the release manager could tag the release in his/her clone
>and push the changes to the main branch, like any other commit.
>
>If the release manager needs some patches for the main repository,
>he/she can cherrypick them manually or using a tool like
>http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/TransplantExtension .
>
>The devil is in the details, like how the release manager repository
>clone accesses buildbots, for instance.
>
>This is possible workflow. I don't know what is the actual plan, yet.

There's no doubt that having a dvcs will change our workflow.  I'm not sure
that the above is the best way to do it, but the only way we'll find out is
through experimentation.

Another way could be: the freeze still happens on the official branch, from
where the release manager does the release.  Individual feature and bug
branches aren't affected at all, and once the release is done, those branches
can be merged to the mainline by their authors.  During branch freezes,
authors can nominate their branches to fix release blocker issues, managed and
reviewed through the tracker.

It's definitely true that with a dvcs, work does not have to "stop" during
rc or freeze periods.  The question is just, where does that work continue?

-Barry
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From doko at ubuntu.com  Mon Mar 15 01:15:30 2010
From: doko at ubuntu.com (Matthias Klose)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:15:30 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] updating libffi to 3.0.9?
In-Reply-To: <108799013716724176261426540813616212075-Webmail@me.com>
References: <4B847659.6040001@debian.org> <4B84D336.1070204@ctypes.org>
	<108799013716724176261426540813616212075-Webmail@me.com>
Message-ID: <4B9D7C22.1040501@ubuntu.com>

On 24.02.2010 16:35, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2010, at 08:20AM, "Thomas Heller"<theller at ctypes.org>  wrote:
>> Matthias Klose schrieb:
>>> I would like to update the internal copy of libffi from the 3.0.5 release to
>>> 3.0.9 (plus an ARM specific patch checked in after the 3.0.9 release).  Is this
>>> ok for the trunk and the py3kbranch?  I only can check linux targets and watch
>>> the buildds, so I would like to ask for tests on other targets.
>>
>> Obviously I don't do a good job maintaining the 'Python libffi fork', so
>> I have nothing against you or other people doing my work ;-).

well, I'm always buildig with --with-system-libffi for packaging, but I would 
like to have consistent test results on the buildds, which are not able to 
provide custom configure flags.

I now committed the update to the trunk; opened issue #8142 for further 
comments/changes.

I didn't touch the Modules/_ctypes/libffi_* directories, these maybe need 
updates/removals.

Proposed some changes from the libffi.diff file at 
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/java-patches/2010-q1/msg00057.html

>> On the other hand:
>> Things have changed since the first inclusion of ctypes into the Python
>> distribution.  There were no 'official' libffi releases at that time;
>> now there are regular releases.  Should the Python distribution be changed
>> to use the system libffi by default - the '--with-system-ffi' configure option?
>> Is a system libffi library available on OS X?  On other systems?
>> The windows fork must probably stay...
>
> OSX has a system libffi on OSX 10.5 or later. The binary installers cannot use that because libffi is not present on 10.4, and I'm also not 100% sure that libffi on 10.5 is fully binary compatible with that on 10.6.
>
>>
>>> The libffi subdirectories for testsuite, doc and man are currently not checked
>>> in. Should these be kept out, or should the complete libffi release be checked in?
>>
>> Depends on the answer to your first question, of course.  The libffi testsuite requires
>> dejagnus.  I know there once was a Python script, written by Ronald Ossouren, which
>> was able to execute the tests.
>
> I have a testrunner in pyobjc that is able to run the libffi tests without dejagnu. I'm willing to contribute that to python.

I did check in the plain libffi 3.0.9 release, please could you add these 
changes to the trunk, and to the libffi.diff patch.

   Matthias

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Mon Mar 15 08:58:39 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:58:39 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] branches and merging
In-Reply-To: <4B9ACA37.8090201@jcea.es>
References: <d11dcfba1003010044t5452a59fy72950de462a663f6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B8C2D33.8030001@v.loewis.de>
	<bbaeab101003011406t446e8a11nc34b3c3bfce42cc6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100301172415.0eece13b@freewill.wooz.org> <4B8C87CA.6070501@jcea.es> 
	<20100302132122.GA6678@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>
	<4B970031.2080002@jcea.es> 
	<ea2499da1003092329p602b45e7t6ab8b55da30202df@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B97BB1C.6070605@jcea.es> <4B9ACA37.8090201@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003150058t21c6c51q5bd26ea68d671ae4@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 00:11, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 03/10/2010 04:30 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> On 03/10/2010 08:29 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
>>> So, in the meantime, if you have ssh access, make your clone via ssh.
>>
>> Could you possibly the exact command to use to clone cpython HG
>> repository?. I can't find it via Google.
>
> I still don't know how I can clone the cpython repository. Regular clone
> doesn't work with current repository state. Dirkjan commented about
> cloning via SSH, and I have a SSH commit key, but I don't know what
> command to use...

You can clone from ssh://hg at hg.python.org/repos/cpython.

I know, I need to write docs.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Mon Mar 15 09:02:36 2010
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:02:36 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Frozen branches in Hg
In-Reply-To: <hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20100313134213.9030CE3C1@mail.python.org>
	<87750955-2FD8-4C63-9819-2857E365C25C@python.org> 
	<hngkii$4t7$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20100313180837.71946281@heresy.wooz.org> 
	<hnh7i6$2bc$1@dough.gmane.org> <hnh7s7$2bc$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ea2499da1003150102t5b0b7569p6ee375f4b4fd8669@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 00:40, Georg Brandl <g.brandl at gmx.net> wrote:
> Thinking of that a bit more: after the Hg transition, shouldn't we be able to
> really freeze a branch that is in pre-release approval-needed mode? ?It is
> trivial for anyone to commit a fix to their own branch, and then instead of
> pushing they'd have to notify the release manager to pull from them, as the
> only person who can push to the frozen branch.

Sure, that should be easy. We could also contemplate Mozilla's model
here: they have a hook that disallows all commits, but you can
override it by having a specific keyword in the commit message (so the guy who
broke the build can push his fix whoever he is, and everyone else will
know not to push).

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Tue Mar 16 21:27:59 2010
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:27:59 +0000
Subject: [python-committers] Python Language Summit at EuroPython
Message-ID: <4B9FE9CF.6070704@voidspace.org.uk>

Hello all,

I'm organising a Python Language Summit on Sunday 18th July, in 
Birmingham UK immediately preceding EuroPython 2010.

I'll be sending out invitations soon and would like to make sure I 
include European Python-committers. If you're in Europe, or able to 
come, please let me know so that I can include you (assuming I don't get 
overwhelmed by responses...).

All the best,

Michael Foord

-- 
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog

READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (?BOGUS AGREEMENTS?) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.



From barry at python.org  Tue Mar 16 22:06:36 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:06:36 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] tagging 2.6.5 (Re: [Python-Dev] tagging 3.1.2)
In-Reply-To: <1afaf6161003161351x664aa033i38cd7deb387012da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1afaf6161003161351x664aa033i38cd7deb387012da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100316170636.69c6a141@heresy>

On Mar 16, 2010, at 03:51 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

>My plan is to tag 3.1.2 sometime on Thursday, so binaries can be built
>for the final release on Saturday. Agreeable?

I might as well do the same for 2.6.5, though I plan on releasing it Friday.

-Barry
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From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Tue Mar 16 22:50:21 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:50:21 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Python Language Summit at EuroPython
In-Reply-To: <4B9FE9CF.6070704@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <4B9FE9CF.6070704@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <201003162250.21161.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Hi,

Le mardi 16 mars 2010 21:27:59, Michael Foord a ?crit :
> I'll be sending out invitations soon and would like to make sure I
> include European Python-committers. If you're in Europe, or able to
> come, please let me know so that I can include you (assuming I don't get
> overwhelmed by responses...).

I live in France, I don't know yet if can come. But if I get an invitation, I  
have an excuse to come to EuroPython :-)

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Mar 17 18:27:18 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:27:18 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>

Le dimanche 14 mars 2010 ? 03:52 +0100, Jesus Cea a ?crit :
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 03/14/2010 03:35 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> >> Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)
> > 
> > How so?
> 
> The release manager could clone the repository to getting it ready for
> release, while the main repository accepts new changesets. The point
> would be not stopping commits, ever.

We could already do so with SVN, simply by opening a release branch when
entering rc phase, and only merging selected (release blocking) fixes to
that branch. There's nothing DVCS-specific here.

> If the release manager needs some patches for the main repository,
> he/she can cherrypick them manually or using a tool like
> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/TransplantExtension .

Same with svnmerge.

Regards

Antoine.



From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Wed Mar 17 22:26:10 2010
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:26:10 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org>
	<4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>
	<4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>
	<1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le dimanche 14 mars 2010 ? 03:52 +0100, Jesus Cea a ?crit :
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 03/14/2010 03:35 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>>>> Mercurial, where are you?. This would be a non issue :)
>>> How so?
>> The release manager could clone the repository to getting it ready for
>> release, while the main repository accepts new changesets. The point
>> would be not stopping commits, ever.
> 
> We could already do so with SVN, simply by opening a release branch when
> entering rc phase, and only merging selected (release blocking) fixes to
> that branch. There's nothing DVCS-specific here.

I came across an interesting explanation from Joel Spolsky the other day
as to why this isn't actually true (even with svnmerge):
http://hginit.com/00.html

Short version: SVN and other non-DVCS systems don't store enough (or the
right) metadata to support merging properly, so branching becomes
unnecessarily painful.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------

From benjamin at python.org  Wed Mar 17 22:30:30 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:30:30 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es> <1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>
	<4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003171430t11e652e2sbe68242bf16b555b@mail.gmail.com>

2010/3/17 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>:
> Short version: SVN and other non-DVCS systems don't store enough (or the
> right) metadata to support merging properly, so branching becomes
> unnecessarily painful.

This isn't really true these days given svn merge --reintegrate.



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Mar 17 22:38:14 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:38:14 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<20100310114243.7ed17bf6@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9BEAA9.7010303@jcea.es>
	<20100313172516.3b4059e0@heresy.wooz.org> <4B9C1B61.1040105@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es> <1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>
	<4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1268861894.3507.21.camel@localhost>

Le jeudi 18 mars 2010 ? 07:26 +1000, Nick Coghlan a ?crit :
> > 
> > We could already do so with SVN, simply by opening a release branch when
> > entering rc phase, and only merging selected (release blocking) fixes to
> > that branch. There's nothing DVCS-specific here.
> 
> I came across an interesting explanation from Joel Spolsky the other day
> as to why this isn't actually true (even with svnmerge):
> http://hginit.com/00.html

Sure, but Joel Spolsky's hand-waving notwithstanding, svnmerge generally
works for the kind of use we are talking about (short-lived release
branches with small cherry-picked transplants). Now for long-lived
branches svnmerge is weaker, although not totally useless either;
otherwise we wouldn't use it for py3k.



From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Wed Mar 17 22:41:06 2010
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:41:06 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <1afaf6161003171430t11e652e2sbe68242bf16b555b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>	
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>	
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>	
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>	
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es> <1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>	
	<4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>
	<1afaf6161003171430t11e652e2sbe68242bf16b555b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BA14C72.2090305@gmail.com>

Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2010/3/17 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>:
>> Short version: SVN and other non-DVCS systems don't store enough (or the
>> right) metadata to support merging properly, so branching becomes
>> unnecessarily painful.
> 
> This isn't really true these days given svn merge --reintegrate.

File renaming/moving still doesn't work properly though:
http://blogs.open.collab.net/svn/2008/07/subversion-merg.html

There are limits to what you can do without tracking the original
changesets. A DVCS does that, but SVN works by calculating diffs between
different revisions without really caring about how those revisions came
about.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Mar 17 23:02:09 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:02:09 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4BA14C72.2090305@gmail.com>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>		<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>		<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind>
	<4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>		<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>		<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>		<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>		<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es>
	<1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>		<4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>	<1afaf6161003171430t11e652e2sbe68242bf16b555b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BA14C72.2090305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BA15161.603@v.loewis.de>

Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>> 2010/3/17 Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com>:
>>> Short version: SVN and other non-DVCS systems don't store enough (or the
>>> right) metadata to support merging properly, so branching becomes
>>> unnecessarily painful.
>> This isn't really true these days given svn merge --reintegrate.
> 
> File renaming/moving still doesn't work properly though:
> http://blogs.open.collab.net/svn/2008/07/subversion-merg.html
> 
> There are limits to what you can do without tracking the original
> changesets. A DVCS does that, but SVN works by calculating diffs between
> different revisions without really caring about how those revisions came
> about.

While that may be true in general, it is irrelevant in the context where
you brought it up - whether or not we could do release branches with
subversion.

My expectation is that the release process won't change in this respect
after the switch to Mercurial. We will continue to freeze the
maintenance branch for releases, because everything else is too tedious
for the release manager.

E.g. let's assume the proposal would be to create a clone of the
repository for the release branch: the time it takes to create a clone
is too large to make it acceptable for the release manager to wait for
that to complete.

Regards,
Martin

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Mar 17 23:21:54 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:21:54 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Is 3.1 open?
In-Reply-To: <4BA15161.603@v.loewis.de>
References: <20100309173728.1dedce9d@heresy.wooz.org>
	<1afaf6161003131519g46ae6829p2b869140bcb4ac28@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100313182443.415ce30a@msiwind> <4B9C21E8.1060002@v.loewis.de>
	<1afaf6161003131540y7ca185ccy3c959d1c563c5e97@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4679.8090903@jcea.es>
	<1afaf6161003131835y31e7eedfkc61b645933748814@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B9C4F51.90609@jcea.es> <1268846838.3507.9.camel@localhost>
	<4BA148F2.40201@gmail.com>
	<1afaf6161003171430t11e652e2sbe68242bf16b555b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BA14C72.2090305@gmail.com>  <4BA15161.603@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1268864514.3507.27.camel@localhost>

Le mercredi 17 mars 2010 ? 23:02 +0100, "Martin v. L?wis" a ?crit :
> My expectation is that the release process won't change in this respect
> after the switch to Mercurial. We will continue to freeze the
> maintenance branch for releases, because everything else is too tedious
> for the release manager.
> 
> E.g. let's assume the proposal would be to create a clone of the
> repository for the release branch: the time it takes to create a clone
> is too large to make it acceptable for the release manager to wait for
> that to complete.

Too large? It should take a couple of minutes at most.
By the way, the "official" mirror doesn't seem to work here:

hg clone -v http://hg.python.org/cpython/
destination directory: cpython
requesting all changes
abandon : HTTP Error 414: Request-URI Too Large




From barry at python.org  Thu Mar 18 23:05:21 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:05:21 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] tagging for 2.6.5 final
Message-ID: <20100318180521.1e4d984a@heresy>

It's taggin' time.   Please no commits to the release26-maint tree.  We're a
go for final release.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Thu Mar 18 23:21:39 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:21:39 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Fw: [Python-checkins] r79064 - python/tags/r265
Message-ID: <20100318182139.37bcec48@heresy>

Martin, do your thing!

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:16:16 +0100 (CET)
From: barry.warsaw <python-checkins at python.org>
To: python-checkins at python.org
Subject: [Python-checkins] r79064 - python/tags/r265


Author: barry.warsaw
Date: Thu Mar 18 23:16:16 2010
New Revision: 79064

Log:
Tagging 2.6.5 final.


Added:
   python/tags/r265/
      - copied from r79063, /python/branches/release26-maint/
_______________________________________________
Python-checkins mailing list
Python-checkins at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-checkins
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From barry at python.org  Sat Mar 20 00:03:27 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:03:27 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 is out
Message-ID: <20100319190327.59469cb0@heresy>

Thank you everybody for a great release.  The release26-maint branch is now
open for business.  "Eep eep".

-Barry
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From benjamin at python.org  Sat Mar 20 21:45:45 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:45:45 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] tagging 3.1.2
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003201345h90a8a4fhd22f84c818b155d9@mail.gmail.com>

There are now no 3.1 release blockers, so on with the release!

-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From benjamin at python.org  Sun Mar 21 18:12:44 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:12:44 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] 3.12 done, ready for more fixes
Message-ID: <1afaf6161003211012g27afb15n86ecb08b7f4ab256@mail.gmail.com>

The 3.1 branch is now open for the first palindrome release in 3.x. :)

-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Mar 21 18:15:35 2010
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:15:35 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 is out
In-Reply-To: <20100319190327.59469cb0@heresy>
References: <20100319190327.59469cb0@heresy>
Message-ID: <ho5kai$k7a$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 20.03.2010 00:03, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> Thank you everybody for a great release.  The release26-maint branch is now
> open for business.  "Eep eep".

I didn't hear anything about docs?

Georg

-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.


From barry at python.org  Sun Mar 21 22:44:59 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:44:59 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Python 2.6.5 is out
In-Reply-To: <ho5kai$k7a$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20100319190327.59469cb0@heresy> <ho5kai$k7a$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <D1CD7A3C-ED4B-4D2B-A636-43D7CD52CEA1@python.org>

On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:

> Am 20.03.2010 00:03, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
>> Thank you everybody for a great release.  The release26-maint branch is now
>> open for business.  "Eep eep".
> 
> I didn't hear anything about docs?

The links are working afaict.  If you updated them... thanks!

-Barry


From orsenthil at gmail.com  Tue Mar 23 10:42:00 2010
From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:12:00 +0530
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
Message-ID: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>

I had to reinstall my OS recently and I checked out pristine copies of
trunk,py3k,release26-maint,release31-maint.

While svnmerge.py init on release26-maint and release31-maint worked
fine and I was able to merge a revision to release26-maint.

On py3k, the svn init gave the following problem.

$ python svnmerge.py init
svnmerge: command execution failed (exit code: 1)
svn --non-interactive info "svn+ssh://pythondev at svn.python.org/python/branches/py3k-struni"
svn+ssh://pythondev at svn.python.org/python/branches/py3k-struni:  (Not a valid URL)

svn: A problem occurred; see other errors for details

What's the problem? How do I resolve it?

-- 
Senthil

From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Tue Mar 23 11:27:47 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:27:47 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
Message-ID: <201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le mardi 23 mars 2010 10:42:00, Senthil Kumaran a ?crit :
> I had to reinstall my OS recently and I checked out pristine copies of
> trunk,py3k,release26-maint,release31-maint.
> 
> While svnmerge.py init on release26-maint and release31-maint worked
> fine and I was able to merge a revision to release26-maint.
> 
> On py3k, the svn init gave the following problem.

Why are you using svn init? It was already done in all branches.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/

From orsenthil at gmail.com  Tue Mar 23 12:00:15 2010
From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:30:15 +0530
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Victor Stinner
<victor.stinner at haypocalc.com> wrote:

> Why are you using svn init? It was already done in all branches.

I had this understanding that, while using svnmerge.py you might to do
one-time operation on svnmerge.py init on local repo and then do the
svnmerge.py merge -r xxx
http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-prepare-a-new-branch-for-merging

Looks like I am wrong.

Now that i have done it release26-maint and release31-maint, does it
create any  problem?
Also, should we just ignore the original problem of (py3k-struni URL)?


-- 
Senthil

From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Tue Mar 23 12:24:59 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:24:59 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le mardi 23 mars 2010 12:00:15, vous avez ?crit :
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Victor Stinner
> 
> <victor.stinner at haypocalc.com> wrote:
> > Why are you using svn init? It was already done in all branches.
> 
> I had this understanding that, while using svnmerge.py you might to do
> one-time operation on svnmerge.py init on local repo and then do the
> svnmerge.py merge -r xxx
> http://www.python.org/dev/faq/#how-do-i-prepare-a-new-branch-for-merging

"You need to initialize a *new branch* ...": release26-maint and release31-
maint are not new branches ;-)

> Now that i have done it release26-maint and release31-maint, does it
> create any  problem?

svnmerge.py uses two 2 properties (svnmerge-blocked and svnmerge-integrated) 
on the directory.

Let's try on a fresh release26-maint checkout:
----
$ svn pl .
Propri?t?s sur '.'
  svn:ignore
  svnmerge-blocked
  svnmerge-integrated
  svk:merge

$ svn pg svnmerge-integrated .
/python/trunk:1-66720,66723-66743,66746-66751,66753-66755,...,79311,79325,79329

$ svn pg svnmerge-blocked .
/python/trunk:66721-66722,66744-66745,...,79208,79294
----

It's look like the repository is ok. If you loose and cleared these properties 
in your local checkout, use "svn revert ." to restore the properties.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Tue Mar 23 16:13:54 2010
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:13:54 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>

Victor Stinner wrote:
> It's look like the repository is ok.

I confirmed this by looking at what Senthil's commit actually did on the
Python 2.6 branch - it just added some redundant info to the beginning
of the svnmerge-integrated property.

As that redundant info is no longer present, I expect svnmerge cleared
it out on a subsequent merge command.

I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?

Current: "This is a one-time operation."
Possible change: "This is a one-time operation (i.e. only when the
branch is originally created, not when each developer creates a local
checkout for the branch)."

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Tue Mar 23 16:34:18 2010
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:34:18 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100323153418.B5DBD1AB375@kimball.webabinitio.net>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:13:54 +1000, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
> entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?
> 
> Current: "This is a one-time operation."
> Possible change: "This is a one-time operation (i.e. only when the
> branch is originally created, not when each developer creates a local
> checkout for the branch)."

+1.  I was bitten by this when I first started, and I think your
proposed wording explains it well and would have kept me from
making a mistake.

--
R. David Murray                                      www.bitdance.com

From alexandre at peadrop.com  Tue Mar 23 16:49:35 2010
From: alexandre at peadrop.com (Alexandre Vassalotti)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:49:35 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com> 
	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <acd65fa21003230849q46b755afk2c30022b687aec46@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
> entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?
>

Could we put a commit hook to prevent committing unintentional
"svnmerge.py init"?

-- Alexandre

From eric at trueblade.com  Tue Mar 23 17:58:59 2010
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:58:59 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <acd65fa21003230849q46b755afk2c30022b687aec46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>	<4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
	<acd65fa21003230849q46b755afk2c30022b687aec46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BA8F353.6040604@trueblade.com>

Alexandre Vassalotti wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
>> entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?
>>
> 
> Could we put a commit hook to prevent committing unintentional
> "svnmerge.py init"?

At this point it's probably not worth putting more effort into svn 
infrastructure.

-- 
Eric.

From jcea at jcea.es  Tue Mar 23 19:09:33 2010
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:09:33 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com>	<201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BA903DD.2080102@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/23/2010 04:13 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
> entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?
> 
> Current: "This is a one-time operation."
> Possible change: "This is a one-time operation (i.e. only when the
> branch is originally created, not when each developer creates a local
> checkout for the branch)."

I "perpetrated" the same error a couple of years ago. Fortunatelly I saw
the issue before committing. So, yes, some clarification is needed.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From brett at python.org  Tue Mar 23 20:00:07 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:00:07 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] svnmerge init on py3k branch fails..
In-Reply-To: <4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
References: <20100323094159.GA7607@remy>
	<201003231127.47179.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com> 
	<7c42eba11003230400m75e5093fn29b8b324373398a0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<201003231224.59344.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<4BA8DAB2.1090604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bbaeab101003231200i76511a67q63c29af0606d74a3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 08:13, Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Victor Stinner wrote:
> > It's look like the repository is ok.
>
> I confirmed this by looking at what Senthil's commit actually did on the
> Python 2.6 branch - it just added some redundant info to the beginning
> of the svnmerge-integrated property.
>
> As that redundant info is no longer present, I expect svnmerge cleared
> it out on a subsequent merge command.
>
> I'm not sure if there should be any change in the wording of the FAQ
> entry for this - maybe expanding on the last sentence a bit?
>
> Current: "This is a one-time operation."
> Possible change: "This is a one-time operation (i.e. only when the
> branch is originally created, not when each developer creates a local
> checkout for the branch)."
>

Done.

-Brett



>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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