[pypy-svn] r18796 - pypy/extradoc/minute
cfbolz at codespeak.net
cfbolz at codespeak.net
Thu Oct 20 15:28:33 CEST 2005
Author: cfbolz
Date: Thu Oct 20 15:28:31 2005
New Revision: 18796
Added:
pypy/extradoc/minute/pypy-sync-10-20-2005.txt
Log:
minutes for todays pypy-sync meeting.
Added: pypy/extradoc/minute/pypy-sync-10-20-2005.txt
==============================================================================
--- (empty file)
+++ pypy/extradoc/minute/pypy-sync-10-20-2005.txt Thu Oct 20 15:28:31 2005
@@ -0,0 +1,308 @@
+=============================================
+pypy-sync developer meeting 20th October
+=============================================
+
+Time & location: 1pm (30 minutes) at #pypy-sync
+
+Attendees::
+
+ Samuele Pedroni
+ Armin Rigo
+ Anders Chrigström
+ Christian Tismer
+ Holger Krekel
+ Eric van Riet Paap
+ Michael Hudson
+ Carl Friedrich Bolz
+ Bert Freudenberg
+ Adrien di Mascio (late)
+
+
+Regular Topics
+====================
+
+- activity reports (3 prepared lines of info).
+ All Attendees submitted activity reports (see `IRC-Log`_
+ at the end and 'LAST/NEXT/BLOCKERS' entries in particular)
+
+- resolve conflicts/blockers: No blockers
+
+Topics of the week
+===================
+
+
+Status update and next steps
+-----------------------------
+
+ootypesystem
+++++++++++++
+
+Armin reports that classes/instance support in the rtyper for ootypes seems
+reasonably complete now: class attributes, abstract base methods, function
+pointers stored on instances seem to work. Missing are all other high level
+types like strings, lists, tuples, dicts, etc. Samuele notes that there might
+still be problems with obscure prebuilt constants. Bert intends to work on
+the squeak backend and Armin tries to help him as far as his work on reports
+permit that. Holger notes that Impara's work should be more focused on
+evaluating the possibilities how to integrate pypy and squeak to which Bert
+agrees.
+
+stackless integration
++++++++++++++++++++++
+
+Armin points at the discussion that took place on PyPy-dev:
+
+http://codespeak.net/pipermail/pypy-dev/2005q4/002519.html
+
+and also notes that some more discussion might be needed. The current state of
+the app-level stackless module is described at:
+
+http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/sprintinfo/paris/stackless-discussion.txt
+
+Christian is working on reducing the overhead of stackless. There was some
+discussion about the question whether stackless should be mentioned as
+implemented in the current reports already. Holger and Carl Friedrich are
+opposed to this idea since there will be a lot more reports coming.
+Armin and Christian were in favor of writing about it. Some further discussion
+is needed about this.
+
+
+l3interpreter
++++++++++++++
+
+Carl Friedrich describes the current the of the l3interpreter: the
+basic model is in place, for now only some operations with integers work.
+There is some code that can convert low level to l3 graphs but it is far
+from complete. Everybody agreed that nobody will work on the l3interpreter
+until should not be worked on until the reports are finished.
+
+
+compiler
+++++++++
+
+Adrien thinks that compiler seems more or less stable now, although there are
+still some bugs found every now and then. It was agreed upon that nobody will
+work on it for a while.
+
+javascript backend
+++++++++++++++++++
+
+Eric describes the current state of the JS backend: it passes around 50%
+of the LLVM tests. The work on the JS backend is simpler because GC and
+exception handling can be handed down to the underlying JS interpreter.
+Eric will give a lightning talk on OSCON in Amsterdam and ask for feedback
+there.
+
+Next pypy-sync meeting
+-------------------------------
+
+Scheduled for next Thursday, Oct. 27th 13.00h CET, conducted by Carl Friedrich
+
+
+Closing
+------------------
+
+Carl Friedrich closes the meeting in time.
+
+.. _`IRC-Log`:
+
+Log:
+------------
+Here is the full IRC log::
+
+ **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 20 12:27:08 2005
+
+ Oct 20 12:27:08 * Now talking on #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 12:51:06 * hpk (n=holger_k at adsl-218-181-192-81.adsl2.iam.net.ma) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 12:51:17 * pedronis (n=Samuele_ at c-3c8b70d5.022-54-67626719.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 12:51:57 * stakkars (n=tismer at ip-80-226-228-223.vodafone-net.de) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 12:58:57 * mwh (n=mwh at 134.99.112.244) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:00:02 cfbolz hi all! it 1pm on my clock now, shall we start?
+ Oct 20 13:00:20 stakkars DONE: more on source ordering, stackless experiments
+ Oct 20 13:00:21 stakkars NEXT: finishing this, continue on spackless stuff
+ Oct 20 13:00:21 stakkars BLOCK: None
+ Oct 20 13:00:43 mwh last: form filling, recovering from sprint, playing with gcc optimisations
+ Oct 20 13:00:43 mwh next: reports, not sure what else
+ Oct 20 13:00:43 mwh blockers: german bureaucracy
+ Oct 20 13:00:48 hpk LAST: paris sprint, eu issues/background organisation, codespeak issues NEXT: getting eric on board, some codespeak stuff, marocco BLOCKERS: mixed connectivity
+ Oct 20 13:01:04 * arigo (n=arigo at 134.99.112.244) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:01:10 arigo hi all
+ Oct 20 13:01:10 cfbolz LAST: sprinting, working on statistics gathering and code coverage
+ Oct 20 13:01:10 cfbolz NEXT: more statistics, code coverage, reports
+ Oct 20 13:01:10 cfbolz BLOCKERS: too many tasks :-)
+ Oct 20 13:01:25 pedronis LAST: sprint; looking into packing 0.6 test results, D04.4; annotation for fixed-size list support
+ Oct 20 13:01:27 pedronis NEXT: reports, ...
+ Oct 20 13:01:28 pedronis BLOCKERS: -
+ Oct 20 13:01:43 arigo DONE: ootyper (classes/instances roughly complete now); some continuation
+ Oct 20 13:01:43 arigo experiments; more pypy-c debugging (it still doesn't run py.py)
+ Oct 20 13:01:43 arigo NEXT: reports D05.1 and D05.4 :-/
+ Oct 20 13:01:43 arigo BLOCKERS: -
+ Oct 20 13:02:27 cfbolz erics lines:
+ Oct 20 13:02:31 cfbolz Last: exception handling in Javascript
+ Oct 20 13:02:31 cfbolz Next: genjs
+ Oct 20 13:02:31 cfbolz Blockers: -
+ Oct 20 13:02:44 cfbolz arre?
+ Oct 20 13:03:25 * bertf (n=bert at pD951499A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:03:35 * ericvrp2 (n=eric at 10-81-event-swisscomeurospot.infopact.nl) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:03:42 cfbolz hi bert! want to post your acitvity report?
+ Oct 20 13:03:48 cfbolz hi eric! I just posted your lines
+ Oct 20 13:03:49 stakkars hi Bert, thanks for the wire
+ Oct 20 13:03:56 ericvrp2 'kay
+ Oct 20 13:04:17 bertf activities - recovering from sprint
+ Oct 20 13:05:11 cfbolz there don't seem to be blockers that can be resolved
+ Oct 20 13:05:20 cfbolz let's proceed to the regular topics
+ Oct 20 13:05:24 cfbolz Status update and next steps
+ Oct 20 13:05:28 cfbolz ootypessytem
+ Oct 20 13:05:51 cfbolz can somebody give an update about the status there?
+ Oct 20 13:06:29 arigo yes
+ Oct 20 13:06:40 arigo the classes/instances support seem reasonably complete now
+ Oct 20 13:07:01 arigo class attributes, abstract base methods, function pointers stored on instances, etc.
+ Oct 20 13:07:12 arigo I basically copied rclass.py from lltype one test at a time
+ Oct 20 13:07:29 bertf nice :)
+ Oct 20 13:07:38 arigo so what's missing now are all other high-level types: strings, lists, tuples, dicts, etc.
+ Oct 20 13:07:50 arigo I guess we need to discuss more before we start that
+ Oct 20 13:08:00 pedronis and I suppose passing more obscure rpbc stuff
+ Oct 20 13:08:07 cfbolz arigo: indeed. later on #pypy?
+ Oct 20 13:08:11 arigo sure
+ Oct 20 13:08:30 cfbolz who is going to work on this the next weeks?
+ Oct 20 13:08:31 arigo pedronis: yes, though I think half of the obscure stuff will work magically :-)
+ Oct 20 13:08:46 pedronis yes, there's a chance
+ Oct 20 13:08:48 arre Sorry for joining late.
+ Oct 20 13:08:53 * stakkars is on a modem line. following on #pypy will be too expensive,today
+ Oct 20 13:09:26 arigo from now on, a lot of the hard stuff in rdict.py&co will be easy and pushed to the back-end (i.e. Bert :-)
+ Oct 20 13:09:39 bertf fine with me ...
+ Oct 20 13:09:43 cfbolz ok
+ Oct 20 13:10:03 arigo I can continue to help anyway (reports reports reports)
+ Oct 20 13:10:22 cfbolz yes
+ Oct 20 13:10:25 cfbolz next topic?
+ Oct 20 13:10:29 cfbolz stackless integration
+ Oct 20 13:10:29 cfbolz ---------------------
+ Oct 20 13:10:33 cfbolz status?
+ Oct 20 13:10:40 arre cfboltz: Want my lines?
+ Oct 20 13:10:56 cfbolz arre: ok
+ Oct 20 13:11:08 arre PREV: preparing data for reports, catching up on work done during sprint
+ Oct 20 13:11:09 arre NEXT: Help my parents move (No PyPy work)
+ Oct 20 13:11:09 arre BLOCKERS: None
+ Oct 20 13:11:23 cfbolz thanks
+ Oct 20 13:11:25 arigo stackless integration: more discussion needed with Christian
+ Oct 20 13:11:45 * hpk just sidenotes that the focus of impara should nevertheless probably be on an evaluation/laying out of the approaches of integrating squeak with pypy
+ Oct 20 13:11:47 stakkars well, the current plan looks fine.
+ Oct 20 13:12:15 stakkars I'm also looking into ways to reduce the overhead.
+ Oct 20 13:12:30 * bertf nods
+ Oct 20 13:13:09 * stakkars can discuss in the evening a bit
+ Oct 20 13:13:19 cfbolz current plan is the discussion that took on on pypy-dev?
+ Oct 20 13:13:26 arigo yes
+ Oct 20 13:13:51 cfbolz ok. christian, are you going to work on that?
+ Oct 20 13:14:17 stakkars sure. And I'd like to help with reporting (preferredly writing towads stackless stuff but well)
+ Oct 20 13:14:30 cfbolz great
+ Oct 20 13:14:57 hpk i think stackless is not the focus on phase 1 reports, but it can be hinted at when talking about flexibility
+ Oct 20 13:15:05 stakkars after a break and some home trouble, I'm about to finish code ordering (convergence problem) and sqitch to stackless then
+ Oct 20 13:15:12 * adim (n=adim at logilab.net2.nerim.net) has joined #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:15:13 arigo hpk: D05.3 should talk about stackless in some details
+ Oct 20 13:15:17 stakkars ah - oh
+ Oct 20 13:15:25 adim Hi everyone (sorry for being late)
+ Oct 20 13:15:36 hpk (claiming that the architecture provides enoug leeway for stackless as if we hadn't tried it already, so we can be bold :-)
+ Oct 20 13:15:41 cfbolz but this needs to be carefully done, since after all there are other stackless reports later
+ Oct 20 13:16:10 cfbolz so we probably don't want to give it all away already
+ Oct 20 13:16:13 hpk it should just be more or less bold claims / statements about the architecture for phase 1 IMO
+ Oct 20 13:16:19 stakkars reporting about the current achievement would make sense,although I don't know whether Armin wants to do it
+ Oct 20 13:16:51 arigo maybe we can report about what we got at the end of the sprint
+ Oct 20 13:16:53 hpk no, i do think that we have to think about correct timing, our reports will always lack behind
+ Oct 20 13:17:11 stakkars arigo: that's what I meant
+ Oct 20 13:17:11 hpk we have 40 reports to go (or some such)
+ Oct 20 13:17:22 arigo stakkars: ok
+ Oct 20 13:17:32 hpk arigo, stakkars : but i disagree
+ Oct 20 13:17:36 arigo hpk: I see the point
+ Oct 20 13:18:11 cfbolz let's defer this to #pypy, I'd say
+ Oct 20 13:18:15 cfbolz l3interpreter
+ Oct 20 13:18:15 cfbolz -------------
+ Oct 20 13:18:28 cfbolz I can say something about the status
+ Oct 20 13:18:43 cfbolz the basic model is in place, it ignores everything except integers for now
+ Oct 20 13:18:43 hpk cfbolz: defering without refering to persons seems difficult, but well
+ Oct 20 13:19:20 cfbolz hpk: point taken
+ Oct 20 13:19:59 cfbolz to l3interpreter there is some code that converts l2 to l3 but it can't do very much yet
+ Oct 20 13:19:59 mwh what types will the l3interpreter need to know about eventually?
+ Oct 20 13:20:11 hpk the question is (IMO) if we want to work much on l3interpreter in the next weeks
+ Oct 20 13:20:21 cfbolz probably rather not
+ Oct 20 13:20:56 cfbolz too much work on reports to do
+ Oct 20 13:21:11 mwh indeed
+ Oct 20 13:21:39 cfbolz so I'd say I'll try to write a bit about the plans we had at the sprint and put it to sleep afterwards
+ Oct 20 13:22:03 hpk yip, i think so as well
+ Oct 20 13:22:15 cfbolz ok then
+ Oct 20 13:22:16 cfbolz compiler
+ Oct 20 13:22:16 cfbolz --------
+ Oct 20 13:22:24 cfbolz could anybody tell what the status there is?
+ Oct 20 13:22:38 mwh well, we found another crazy bug last night
+ Oct 20 13:22:53 adim mwh: ah ?
+ Oct 20 13:22:58 mwh armin fixed it somewhat
+ Oct 20 13:23:05 hpk sorry, i have to ask: does everybody else think it's ok to postpone l3interpreter until - say - december?
+ Oct 20 13:23:26 mwh adim: from Lib/compiler, to do with __name mangling
+ Oct 20 13:23:37 arigo hpk: no, I'd only say until we are done with the bunch of thereports
+ Oct 20 13:23:43 stakkars yes. in effect this would continue at the next sprint, then.
+ Oct 20 13:23:53 cfbolz arigo: which will probably nearly be december :-)
+ Oct 20 13:23:58 arigo ok ok :-)
+ Oct 20 13:24:02 hpk arigo: ok, this will be aerly december, i am afraid, but we'll see
+ Oct 20 13:24:09 adim cfbolz: for the compiler, I would say that we can consider it as finished since failing compliancy tests are note compiler-related bugs
+ Oct 20 13:24:27 adim but it doesn't guarantee that there's no bug left
+ Oct 20 13:24:43 hpk surely not
+ Oct 20 13:24:55 cfbolz so will anybody work on it?
+ Oct 20 13:25:09 pedronis arigo, hpk: I see, the important thing is that when we restart we have a short discussion on what next, if we manage before december
+ Oct 20 13:25:10 arigo the bugs are not known yet :-)
+ Oct 20 13:25:13 adim I don't really think so.
+ Oct 20 13:25:16 mwh as bugs are found, surely
+ Oct 20 13:25:18 adim :)
+ Oct 20 13:25:28 cfbolz ok, makes sense for everybody?
+ Oct 20 13:25:39 hpk makes sense to consider it finished for now, yes
+ Oct 20 13:25:43 hpk (to me)
+ Oct 20 13:25:55 cfbolz to me as well
+ Oct 20 13:26:15 arigo yes
+ Oct 20 13:26:21 stakkars 'k
+ Oct 20 13:26:34 mwh is this some kind of vote? :)
+ Oct 20 13:26:37 cfbolz yes
+ Oct 20 13:26:39 cfbolz :-)
+ Oct 20 13:26:41 cfbolz ok then
+ Oct 20 13:26:42 * mwh says "aye" too
+ Oct 20 13:26:45 cfbolz javascript backend
+ Oct 20 13:26:45 cfbolz ------------------
+ Oct 20 13:26:50 arre Aye.
+ Oct 20 13:27:03 cfbolz ericvrp2?
+ Oct 20 13:27:03 ericvrp2 genjs is passing about 50% of the (llvm) unittests.
+ Oct 20 13:27:04 ericvrp2 The resulting javascript code is run with a standlone js interpreter called Spidermonkey.
+ Oct 20 13:27:06 hpk mwh: we use to answer questions like this from the moderator :like "is everybody ..." :-)
+ Oct 20 13:27:06 ericvrp2 Actual testing in browsers is being worked on by Guido Wesdorp.
+ Oct 20 13:27:09 ericvrp2 The code looks very similar but simpler that the C/LLVM code.
+ Oct 20 13:27:12 ericvrp2 This is mostly because I can use JS' garbage collection and excption handling.
+ Oct 20 13:27:17 ericvrp2 I am here now at euro OSCON in Amsterdam to give a 5 minute lightning talk about it
+ Oct 20 13:27:18 ericvrp2 and my question to the audience will be to come up with use-cases.
+ Oct 20 13:27:33 cfbolz :-)
+ Oct 20 13:27:38 hpk :-)
+ Oct 20 13:27:51 adim :)
+ Oct 20 13:27:53 * ericvrp2 blurb
+ Oct 20 13:28:05 hpk does spidermonkey also provide some dom-simulation or so?
+ Oct 20 13:28:12 * hpk notices that time is getting short
+ Oct 20 13:28:20 ericvrp2 I don't think so
+ Oct 20 13:28:22 cfbolz indeed, less than two min left
+ Oct 20 13:28:36 mwh anything else?
+ Oct 20 13:28:53 pedronis should we think to do new a release?
+ Oct 20 13:28:56 mwh i probably won't sign my contract on this visit to duesseldorf :(
+ Oct 20 13:29:00 cfbolz :-(
+ Oct 20 13:29:03 hpk pedronis: next pypy-sync meeting?
+ Oct 20 13:29:07 cfbolz indeed
+ Oct 20 13:29:09 hpk mwh: buah
+ Oct 20 13:29:29 cfbolz anybody opposed to close the meeting?
+ Oct 20 13:29:36 hpk nope
+ Oct 20 13:29:58 stakkars bye
+ Oct 20 13:30:01 ericvrp2 bye
+ Oct 20 13:30:04 adim bye
+ Oct 20 13:30:05 arigo bye
+ Oct 20 13:30:17 bertf bye
+ Oct 20 13:30:27 cfbolz see you all next week!
+ Oct 20 13:30:42 * adim (n=adim at logilab.net2.nerim.net) has left #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:30:57 * mwh (n=mwh at 134.99.112.244) has left #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:31:09 * ericvrp2 has quit ("leaving")
+ Oct 20 13:31:12 * arre (i=ba81f155 at 1-1-5-33a.gfa.gbg.bostream.se) has left #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:31:20 hpk bye
+ Oct 20 13:31:30 * bertf (n=bert at pD951499A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #pypy-sync
+ Oct 20 13:32:08 * arigo (n=arigo at 134.99.112.244) has left #pypy-sync
+ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 20 13:33:51 2005
+
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