[pypy-svn] rev 1711 - pypy/trunk/doc/funding
lac at codespeak.net
lac at codespeak.net
Sat Oct 11 14:49:24 CEST 2003
Author: lac
Date: Sat Oct 11 14:49:23 2003
New Revision: 1711
Modified:
pypy/trunk/doc/funding/B3.0_impact.txt
Log:
shorten this, only referring to the edu reference, which is in B7,
or will be when Jacob is done with it. Fixing the Stockholms
Modified: pypy/trunk/doc/funding/B3.0_impact.txt
==============================================================================
--- pypy/trunk/doc/funding/B3.0_impact.txt (original)
+++ pypy/trunk/doc/funding/B3.0_impact.txt Sat Oct 11 14:49:23 2003
@@ -160,138 +160,3 @@
these decisions because they make business sense for Microsoft,
regardless of the effects on European software developers.
-The second threat closed source makes to European competitiveness is
-more insidious, and more long term. This is an educational defecit.
-This is expanded on in section B7. Suffice it to say that a generation
-has grown up who have not been able to see how their tools actually
-work. When your tools become a Black Box, you end up becoming
-dependent on your tools, rather than empowered by them.
-
-A good workman knows his tools.
-This is much more than the theoretical knowledge of how his tools
-ought to work, according to principles learned in school. The way car
-mechanics know how cars work is distinctly different from what you
-would know if you had attended classes on 'the principles of the
-internal combustion engine', let alone what you need to know to just
-drive the thing.
-
-Right now, in Europe, we don't have enough of the software equivalents
-of car-mechanics. And most of them live in academia, where they know
-the intimate details of languages that never get used in industrial
-applications. The world needs Formula-One race car mechanics, indeed,
-but it has a much greater need for people who know how to repair the
-family car.
-
-It is not as if there is a shortage of people who would be interested
-in learning such things, if the source were made available. Many
-people have taken this step by learning how CPython does its stuff.
-But still there is a barrier. If you want to know how CPython does
-things, you need to learn C. C is a notoriously difficult language to
-learn.
-
-But let me quote from an article posted to the Python-in-Education
-mailing list.
-
-FIXME_LAURA -- I promised Arthur I would fix any typos::
-
- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:52:05 -0400
- From: Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.net>
- To: edu-sig at python.org
- Subject: [Edu-sig] re : If the PyPy Project ...
-
- List-Id: Python in education <edu-sig.python.org>
-
- Terry -
-
- >Since I presume the goal of PyPy is to implement *Python* in Python,
- >wouldn't the implementation language be rather insignificant to an
- >end-user such as an educator? Why would it be "better" than CPython?
-
- For whatever reason, the complex built_in and the cmath module, implemented
- in Python, are part of the early pypy codebase. As I had been spending some
- time in the complex realm with PyGeo - a simple version of the complex
- realm, as these things go - Laura's post gave me the impetus to try to
- plugin the pypy implementations.
-
- Only got stuck on the typing issue. My code tests for
- instance(object,complex). The pypy complexobject, unadorned, is a class -
- and fails the test. But that leads me into a deeper look at some of the
- pypy codebase, trying to understand a little bit of how this kind of issue
- are to be dealt with. Not that I got there, yet - but I did seem to have an
- avenue to explore I would not have with CPython - as someone who doesn't C,
- and has no intention of trying, seriously, to do so.
-
- As someone living within the limits of having Python as my only real
- language, I think that pypy should open things up for me considerably. It
- will make Python, I believe, a more attractive educational language, because
- it will make someone with a strong foundation in Python - as the language of
- choice - a more self-sufficient programmer.
-
- Presumably - the point is - there will be less cases where the right
- approach would be an extension module in C or C++, and a sense of
- fundamental compromise should one not be equipped to go there. Many
- thousands of folks - using VB and the like - already do involved,
- highly performing real world applications and make nice livings doing
- so, without being equipped to do C. I am thinking that pypy would put
- Python more squarely in that "space".
-
- Is any of this so, or just hope?
-
- Art
-
-
- _______________________________________________
- Edu-sig mailing list
- Edu-sig at python.org
- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
- ------------------------------------------------------
-
-Here is somebody who is hoping we can give him a language he can
-understand. Python already is an excellent teaching language. PyPy
-will be a better one.
-
-This project has to be done at the European or the International
-level. That's where we all live.
-
-Since education is a primary goal of the project, we will take every
-opportunity to disseminate PyPy. The source will always be freely
-available from our website. We will continue to give talks about PyPy
-at EuroPython, Python-UK, OSCON (the International Open Source
-Conference) the International Python Conference, and <what did I leave
-out> others. ADD SOME GOOD ONES THAT ARE FOR CSC ACADEMICS
-
-<dinu> How about OOPSLA (Conference on Object-Oriented Programming,
-Systems, Languages, and Applications), ECOOP (European Conference
-on Object-Oriented Programming), the MIT Lightweight Languages
-Workshops and the like as the next target?
-
-ASK STOCKHOLM -- will the EU pay for us to go to conferences? even
-ones we were going to attend anyway?
-
-These talks will create interest as well as teach techniques. We will
-submit a PEP and push to get PyPy made the reference implementation of
-the Python programming language(*). We will continue to discuss PyPy on
-our own mailing lists, as well as other Python mailing lists such as
-the Python-in-Education list, and the Usenet Newsgroup
-comp.lang.python. We already have an IRC channel, #pypy on
-irc.freenode.net where live online discussions happen, and where we
-communicate with each other while we are apart. Beyond that -- we are
-willing to take any actions the EU would like to fund.
-
-::
-
- <arigo> FIXME
- <arigo> (*) emphasis on this one? If this really happens we'll arguably
- <arigo> become the software European Project with the largest distribution
- <arigo> and user base ever (XXX rephrase :-)
- <arigo> Also mention that the issue (and the word 'PEP') is discussed
- <arigo> later in B3.1_standards.txt?
-
-Ask Stockholm We think you get no money for this in a STREP. True?
-
-ASK STOCKHOLM --
-can we get some money to give Freenode?
-re: 'Indicate what account is taken of other national or international
-research activities.' -- Samuele and Armin read the literature all
-the time. What do I say?
-
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