From jannis at leidel.info  Wed Jun  2 09:55:42 2010
From: jannis at leidel.info (Jannis Leidel)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 09:55:42 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] PyPI maintaining
Message-ID: <A17440F7-B49D-430D-BD63-1E0D8A8967F1@leidel.info>

Hello everyone,

Just a quick note that in the aftermath of yesterday's downtime of PyPI I've volunteered to help out maintaining it.

I'm "jezdez" on IRC (Freenode) and available most of the day (UTC+2). In any catastrophic event I'm reachable via jannis+urgent at leidel.info.

Best,
Jannis

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun  4 17:21:14 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:21:14 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: docs.python.org extremely slow
Message-ID: <20100604152113.GA22772@panix.com>

Seems fine right now, forwarding in case someone wants to investigate

----- Forwarded message from Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com> -----

> From: Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
> To: "python.org Webmaster" <webmaster at python.org>
> Subject: docs.python.org extremely slow
> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:46:54 -0400
> 
> Accessing pages on docs.python.org is extremely slow right now, and was 
> yesterday afternoon (~16 hours ago) as well.
>
> $ time curl -o foo.html http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>   % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  
> Current
>                                  Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  
> Speed
> 100  350k  100  350k    0     0   4587      0  0:01:18  0:01:18 --:--:--  
> 114k
>
> real    1m18.727s
> user    0m0.015s
> sys     0m0.048s
>
>
> Doug

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From techtonik at gmail.com  Fri Jun  4 17:26:27 2010
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 18:26:27 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: docs.python.org extremely slow
In-Reply-To: <20100604152113.GA22772@panix.com>
References: <20100604152113.GA22772@panix.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinyiaVths6EwwW-t-V8nnr155FE-ckSsa6PLY9g@mail.gmail.com>

IIUC d.p.o is 100% static, so the problem should be caused by some
other processes running on the same server. Is there any public
monitors for PSF servers along with description of services running
there?
-- 
anatoly t.



On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> Seems fine right now, forwarding in case someone wants to investigate
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com> -----
>
>> From: Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
>> To: "python.org Webmaster" <webmaster at python.org>
>> Subject: docs.python.org extremely slow
>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:46:54 -0400
>>
>> Accessing pages on docs.python.org is extremely slow right now, and was
>> yesterday afternoon (~16 hours ago) as well.
>>
>> $ time curl -o foo.html http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>> ? % Total ? ?% Received % Xferd ?Average Speed ? Time ? ?Time ? ? Time
>> Current
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Dload ?Upload ? Total ? Spent ? ?Left
>> Speed
>> 100 ?350k ?100 ?350k ? ?0 ? ? 0 ? 4587 ? ? ?0 ?0:01:18 ?0:01:18 --:--:--
>> 114k
>>
>> real ? ?1m18.727s
>> user ? ?0m0.015s
>> sys ? ? 0m0.048s
>>
>>
>> Doug
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ? http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
> start writing it." ?--Dijkstra
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>

From georg at python.org  Fri Jun  4 17:43:03 2010
From: georg at python.org (Georg Brandl)
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 17:43:03 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: docs.python.org extremely slow
In-Reply-To: <20100604152113.GA22772@panix.com>
References: <20100604152113.GA22772@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4C091F07.6000103@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Can't reproduce here.  Munin doesn't show anything unusual either.

Georg

Am 04.06.2010 17:21, schrieb Aahz:
> Seems fine right now, forwarding in case someone wants to investigate
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com> -----
> 
>> From: Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
>> To: "python.org Webmaster" <webmaster at python.org>
>> Subject: docs.python.org extremely slow
>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:46:54 -0400
>> 
>> Accessing pages on docs.python.org is extremely slow right now, and was 
>> yesterday afternoon (~16 hours ago) as well.
>>
>> $ time curl -o foo.html http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>>   % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  
>> Current
>>                                  Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  
>> Speed
>> 100  350k  100  350k    0     0   4587      0  0:01:18  0:01:18 --:--:--  
>> 114k
>>
>> real    1m18.727s
>> user    0m0.015s
>> sys     0m0.048s
>>
>>
>> Doug
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 

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Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkwJHwcACgkQN9GcIYhpnLCvIgCfZymrxnUHxZv/Xg5JdZrUV8jf
i6MAnRHwy8L5IVnySWQK1d3R2A6Owwby
=xl9Y
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun  4 18:42:49 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 09:42:49 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Re: docs.python.org extremely slow
Message-ID: <20100604164249.GA19925@panix.com>

<sigh>  Any chance we can resolve the IPv6 problems?

----- Forwarded message from Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com> -----

> From: Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
> To: webmaster at python.org
> Subject: Re: docs.python.org extremely slow
> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:38:10 -0400
> 
>
> On Jun 4, 2010, at 12:26 PM, webmaster at python.org wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 04, 2010, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>> On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:21 AM, webmaster at python.org wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Jun 04, 2010, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Accessing pages on docs.python.org is extremely slow right now, and
>>>>> was yesterday afternoon (~16 hours ago) as well.
>>>>
>>>> Seems fine to me, are you sure it's not your Internet?  Also
>>>> forwarded to people who might be able to take a deeper look.
>>>
>>> It could be something between me and python.org, but I'm not noticing
>>> problems with any other sites.  The delay seems to be in establishing
>>> the initial connection so I thought there might be a load issue.
>>
>> If you have IPv6 enabled, please try disabling it; we have had ongoing
>> difficulty with IPv6.
>
> That was it.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun  5 00:35:05 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 00:35:05 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Re: docs.python.org extremely slow
In-Reply-To: <20100604164249.GA19925@panix.com>
References: <20100604164249.GA19925@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4C097F99.6020005@v.loewis.de>

Am 04.06.2010 18:42, schrieb Aahz:
> <sigh>   Any chance we can resolve the IPv6 problems?

No. They are typically on the other end. Either people fix their 
connectivity, or turn it off.

There is, in principle, a chance that this is in xs4all, or close to it.
However, that would require somebody with problems to spend some time 
investigating (under direction if desired) - and may turn out to be then 
his problem.

Regards,
Martin

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 10 17:10:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:10:47 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Python Jobs RSS feed links missing a #
Message-ID: <20100610151047.GA29174@panix.com>

----- Forwarded message from Harro van der Klauw <hvdklauw at gmail.com> -----

> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:02:12 +0200
> Subject: Python Jobs RSS feed links missing a #
> From: Harro van der Klauw <hvdklauw at gmail.com>
> To: webmaster at python.org
> 
> When clicking on the read more in the rss feed it goes to:
> http://www.python.org/community/jobs/fdm-group-gmbh-frankfurt-germany which
> gives a 404.
> it should be
> http://www.python.org/community/jobs/#fdm-group-gmbh-frankfurt-germany.

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From martin at martinthomas.net  Thu Jun 10 17:45:58 2010
From: martin at martinthomas.net (Martin Thomas)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:45:58 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Python Jobs RSS feed links missing a #
In-Reply-To: <20100610151047.GA29174@panix.com>
References: <20100610151047.GA29174@panix.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilGYUso0Vm9Pbfr1D4YTfA05xB_kcYqlGNrKdP0@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:

> ----- Forwarded message from Harro van der Klauw <hvdklauw at gmail.com>
> -----
>
> > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:02:12 +0200
> > Subject: Python Jobs RSS feed links missing a #
> > From: Harro van der Klauw <hvdklauw at gmail.com>
> > To: webmaster at python.org
> >
> > When clicking on the read more in the rss feed it goes to:
> > http://www.python.org/community/jobs/fdm-group-gmbh-frankfurt-germanywhich
> > gives a 404.
> > it should be
> > http://www.python.org/community/jobs/#fdm-group-gmbh-frankfurt-germany.
>
>
Thanks for reporting this.
A quick look at the raw output shows this:

<item><title>FDM Group GmbH (Frankfurt,
Germany)</title><link>http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html#fdm-group-gmbh-frankfurt-germany</link><description>Job
Description: My client, a large and prestigious financial
organisation, is looking

for a Senior Python C/C++ Developer to join their team in Frankfurt
f...</description><guid
isPermaLink="true">fdm-group-gmbh-frankfurt-germany</guid><pubDate>Thu, 10
Jun 2010 00:00:00 GMT</pubDate></item>


.. which shows the '#' there as expected.
If I browse the feed in Firefox after adding as a live bookmark, everything
works as expected.

Seems like a client-side issue where the feed reader is removing the
'index.html#' from the link.

What is the client, what version and on what platform?

Thanks // Martin

----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
> start writing it."  --Dijkstra
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>
>
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jun 21 17:31:20 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 08:31:20 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Future of planetpython.org?
Message-ID: <20100621153120.GA5398@panix.com>

----- Forwarded message from Jay Parlar <parlar at gmail.com> -----

> From: Jay Parlar <parlar at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:14:20 -0400
> Subject: Future of planetpython.org?
> To: webmaster at python.org
> 
> It seems that registration of planetpython.org has expired. I know
> it's simply been redirecting to planet.python.org for awhile now, but
> it still seems like it'd be worth it to reregister the domain and keep
> it redirecting.
> 
> Jay P.

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From webmaster at python.org  Mon Jun 21 18:38:19 2010
From: webmaster at python.org (webmaster at python.org)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:38:19 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Future of planetpython.org?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilsBHrQKoCy4LMp6xTz4qG5bEEs3E7RfT7UzTix@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTilsBHrQKoCy4LMp6xTz4qG5bEEs3E7RfT7UzTix@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C1F957B.2030805@python.org>

Hello Jay,

That domain is owned by Ryan Phillips and not by the PSF. According to a 
whois lookup he renewed it on the 19th June and it next expires in June 
2011. Hopefully the redirect will be back in place soon.

All the best,

Michael Foord

On 21/06/2010 16:14, Jay Parlar wrote:
> It seems that registration of planetpython.org has expired. I know
> it's simply been redirecting to planet.python.org for awhile now, but
> it still seems like it'd be worth it to reregister the domain and keep
> it redirecting.
>
> Jay P.
>    


-- 
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog

READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (?BOGUS AGREEMENTS?) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.



From trolocsis at gmail.com  Mon Jun 21 20:17:59 2010
From: trolocsis at gmail.com (Ryan Phillips)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:17:59 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Future of planetpython.org?
In-Reply-To: <4C1F957B.2030805@python.org>
References: <AANLkTilsBHrQKoCy4LMp6xTz4qG5bEEs3E7RfT7UzTix@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C1F957B.2030805@python.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik42i-WlHfDhHhYTY7zSLPwBEnXnrOetr5sia5R@mail.gmail.com>

Michael:

If I renew the domain for another year, would the python foundation accept
the transfer of the domain to you guys?

Regards,
Ryan

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:38 AM, <webmaster at python.org> wrote:

> Hello Jay,
>
> That domain is owned by Ryan Phillips and not by the PSF. According to a
> whois lookup he renewed it on the 19th June and it next expires in June
> 2011. Hopefully the redirect will be back in place soon.
>
> All the best,
>
> Michael Foord
>
> On 21/06/2010 16:14, Jay Parlar wrote:
>
>> It seems that registration of planetpython.org has expired. I know
>> it's simply been redirecting to planet.python.org for awhile now, but
>> it still seems like it'd be worth it to reregister the domain and keep
>> it redirecting.
>>
>> Jay P.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog
>
> READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of
> your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from
> any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service,
> shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure,
> non-compete and acceptable use policies (?BOGUS AGREEMENTS?) that I have
> entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and
> assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and
> privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me
> from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.
>
>
>
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From barry at python.org  Fri Jun 25 22:54:55 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:54:55 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Embedding the Google Python Release Schedule calendar
Message-ID: <20100625165455.0a21b43b@heresy>

I've updated the Google Python Release Schedule calendar.  I think it would be
nice to embed it either on the front page or on the /dev page.  It's an
iframe, which probably means something to someone on this list <wink>.

Here's what Google tells me to use to embed the calendar:

<iframe src="http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York" style="border: 0" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

Thanks!
-Barry
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From techtonik at gmail.com  Sat Jun 26 00:35:30 2010
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 01:35:30 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Embedding the Google Python Release Schedule
	calendar
In-Reply-To: <20100625165455.0a21b43b@heresy>
References: <20100625165455.0a21b43b@heresy>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiksW6V5aoPlDeirvGgsKAQvJrLEZKuB1tcf1T9p@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
> I've updated the Google Python Release Schedule calendar. ?I think it would be
> nice to embed it either on the front page or on the /dev page. ?It's an
> iframe, which probably means something to someone on this list <wink>.
>
> Here's what Google tells me to use to embed the calendar:
>
> <iframe src="http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York" style="border: 0" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

"Python community" didn't like the idea some 6 months ago.
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-February/097698.html

But it is present at http://wiki.python.org/moin/SiteImprovements as
"Add release timer and calendar to Core Development page" task.

Still I am glad you find it useful too.
-- 
anatoly t.

From barry at python.org  Sat Jun 26 00:41:13 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:41:13 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Embedding the Google Python Release Schedule
 calendar
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiksW6V5aoPlDeirvGgsKAQvJrLEZKuB1tcf1T9p@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100625165455.0a21b43b@heresy>
	<AANLkTiksW6V5aoPlDeirvGgsKAQvJrLEZKuB1tcf1T9p@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100625184113.2dbc1ffa@heresy>

On Jun 26, 2010, at 01:35 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>> I've updated the Google Python Release Schedule calendar. ?I think it would be
>> nice to embed it either on the front page or on the /dev page. ?It's an
>> iframe, which probably means something to someone on this list <wink>.
>>
>> Here's what Google tells me to use to embed the calendar:
>>
>> <iframe src="http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York" style="border: 0" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
>
>"Python community" didn't like the idea some 6 months ago.
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-February/097698.html
>
>But it is present at http://wiki.python.org/moin/SiteImprovements as
>"Add release timer and calendar to Core Development page" task.
>
>Still I am glad you find it useful too.

I only see one response in that thread, so "community" might be stretching it
a bit. :)  Still, I'm not saying we should do anything automatic, just embed
the iframe on the dev or front page.

Also, this isn't just for python-dev.  I think anybody who cares about Python
releases would care about timelines and don't want to have to pour through
three PEPs to find all the relevant information.  Of course, it's up to the
release managers to keep the calendar updated (or just make me do it :).

-B
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From mfoord at python.org  Sat Jun 26 01:14:50 2010
From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:14:50 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Embedding the Google Python Release
	Schedule	calendar
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiksW6V5aoPlDeirvGgsKAQvJrLEZKuB1tcf1T9p@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100625165455.0a21b43b@heresy>
	<AANLkTiksW6V5aoPlDeirvGgsKAQvJrLEZKuB1tcf1T9p@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C25386A.9070801@python.org>

On 25/06/2010 23:35, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Barry Warsaw<barry at python.org>  wrote:
>    
>> I've updated the Google Python Release Schedule calendar.  I think it would be
>> nice to embed it either on the front page or on the /dev page.  It's an
>> iframe, which probably means something to someone on this list<wink>.
>>
>> Here's what Google tells me to use to embed the calendar:
>>
>> <iframe src="http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York" style="border: 0" width="800" height="600" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
>>      
> "Python community" didn't like the idea some 6 months ago.
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-February/097698.html
>
>    

There was one reply to that email so I'm not sure how you decide that 
was the voice of the Python community. :-)

Additionally your proposal was for a "release timer", which I took to 
mean some kind of countdown feature which I didn't think was a 
particularly good idea but I didn't really understand what you meant.

As it happens I'm in favour of embedding the calendar on the /dev page 
(which I think is more appropriate than the front page) - but let's see 
what other people think.

All the best,

Michael

> But it is present at http://wiki.python.org/moin/SiteImprovements as
> "Add release timer and calendar to Core Development page" task.
>
> Still I am glad you find it useful too.
>    


-- 
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog

READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (?BOGUS AGREEMENTS?) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.



From doug.hellmann at gmail.com  Sat Jun 26 16:46:30 2010
From: doug.hellmann at gmail.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:46:30 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] blog post about the infrastructure team
Message-ID: <0CD61720-8213-4931-8128-CAF4CC4A0DFF@gmail.com>

Hi, Webmasters,

I'm working on a post about the Infrastructure Committee for the PSF  
blog.  As part of the post, I'm talking a little about the services  
managed by the committee and the related volunteer groups, such as  
this one.  I'd like to mention each of you by name, but don't know who  
you are or where to find a list.  :-)

If you'd like to be included in the post, please drop me a note and  
I'll make sure to recognize your service.  If someone has the time to  
write 2-3 sentences describing the services you manage in more detail  
than "the website for the PSF," I'd be happy to include that  
elaboration, too.


Thanks,
Doug

--
Doug Hellmann
Communications Director
Python Software Foundation
http://python.org/psf/


From doug.hellmann at gmail.com  Sat Jun 26 18:27:23 2010
From: doug.hellmann at gmail.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 12:27:23 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] blog post about the infrastructure team
In-Reply-To: <0CD61720-8213-4931-8128-CAF4CC4A0DFF@gmail.com>
References: <0CD61720-8213-4931-8128-CAF4CC4A0DFF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B4ACEFFD-DF67-41C3-811C-8B3364D985F3@gmail.com>


On Jun 26, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:

> Hi, Webmasters,
>
> I'm working on a post about the Infrastructure Committee for the PSF  
> blog.  As part of the post, I'm talking a little about the services  
> managed by the committee and the related volunteer groups, such as  
> this one.  I'd like to mention each of you by name, but don't know  
> who you are or where to find a list.  :-)
>
> If you'd like to be included in the post, please drop me a note and  
> I'll make sure to recognize your service.  If someone has the time  
> to write 2-3 sentences describing the services you manage in more  
> detail than "the website for the PSF," I'd be happy to include that  
> elaboration, too.

I should mention that I'm trying to have the post go live in the first  
week of July, so if you could reply by June 30 that would give me time  
to collect all of the information and finish getting the post together.

Thanks,
Doug


From martin at martinthomas.net  Sun Jun 27 20:10:15 2010
From: martin at martinthomas.net (Martin Thomas)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 13:10:15 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Dinsdale login
Message-ID: <683F7C23-E514-4E16-AE9B-10A224E5854B@martinthomas.net>

Can I get a login on Dinsdale so I can check on a problem with the build of the Job Board RSS?

Thanks // Martin



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun 27 22:03:34 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 13:03:34 -0700
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Dinsdale login
In-Reply-To: <683F7C23-E514-4E16-AE9B-10A224E5854B@martinthomas.net>
References: <683F7C23-E514-4E16-AE9B-10A224E5854B@martinthomas.net>
Message-ID: <20100627200334.GA4305@panix.com>

On Sun, Jun 27, 2010, Martin Thomas wrote:
>
> Can I get a login on Dinsdale so I can check on a problem with the
> build of the Job Board RSS?

Please send your ssh key to pydotorg.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra

From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun 27 23:03:17 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 23:03:17 +0200
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Dinsdale login
In-Reply-To: <20100627200334.GA4305@panix.com>
References: <683F7C23-E514-4E16-AE9B-10A224E5854B@martinthomas.net>
	<20100627200334.GA4305@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4C27BC95.5070207@v.loewis.de>

>> Can I get a login on Dinsdale so I can check on a problem with the
>> build of the Job Board RSS?
> 
> Please send your ssh key to pydotorg.

I have already dealt with it.

Regards,
Martin

From martin at martinthomas.net  Mon Jun 28 20:30:25 2010
From: martin at martinthomas.net (Martin Thomas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 13:30:25 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
Message-ID: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings.

Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the Job Board
RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats such as
clicks and location.

Cheers // martin
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From mfoord at python.org  Mon Jun 28 20:40:44 2010
From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:40:44 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org>

On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the Job 
> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats 
> such as clicks and location.
>

Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should redirect 
to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.

Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the 
feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.

All the best,

Michael Foord

> Cheers // martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>    


-- 
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog

READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.


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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Jun 28 21:01:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:01:22 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org>
Message-ID: <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>

Michael Foord wrote:
> On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
>> Greetings.
>>
>> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the Job
>> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
>> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats
>> such as clicks and location.
>>
> 
> Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should redirect
> to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.
> 
> Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the
> feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.
> 
+1

Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
See Python Video!       http://python.mirocommunity.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/
"All I want for my birthday is another birthday" -
                                     Ian Dury, 1942-2000

From doug.hellmann at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 21:32:04 2010
From: doug.hellmann at gmail.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:32:04 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org> <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>


On Jun 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote:

> Michael Foord wrote:
>> On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
>>> Greetings.
>>>
>>> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the  
>>> Job
>>> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
>>> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats
>>> such as clicks and location.
>>>
>>
>> Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should  
>> redirect
>> to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.
>>
>> Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the
>> feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.
>>
> +1

+1

Doug


From techtonik at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 21:52:04 2010
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:52:04 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org> <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>
	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any URL to see what public stats feedburner provides except counter?
-- 
anatoly t.



On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> Michael Foord wrote:
>>>
>>> On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings.
>>>>
>>>> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the Job
>>>> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
>>>> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats
>>>> such as clicks and location.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should redirect
>>> to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.
>>>
>>> Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the
>>> feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.
>>>
>> +1
>
> +1
>
> Doug
>
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>

From techtonik at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 21:52:41 2010
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:52:41 +0300
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org> <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>
	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a list of pydotorg RSS channels at all?
-- 
anatoly t.



On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:51 PM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any URL to see what public stats feedburner provides except counter?
> --
> anatoly t.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Foord wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the Job
>>>>> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
>>>>> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats
>>>>> such as clicks and location.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should redirect
>>>> to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.
>>>>
>>>> Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the
>>>> feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.
>>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pydotorg-www mailing list
>> pydotorg-www at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>>
>
>

From martin at martinthomas.net  Mon Jun 28 21:54:38 2010
From: martin at martinthomas.net (Martin Thomas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 14:54:38 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org> <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>
	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinp3CaH0PYHHNC4ozBy9St69wThrJLU56pV4lsi@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>  Michael Foord wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings.
>>>>
>>>> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the Job
>>>> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
>>>> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats
>>>> such as clicks and location.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should redirect
>>> to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.
>>>
>>> Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the
>>> feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.
>>>
>>>  +1
>>
>
> +1
>
> Doug


Thanks, all.
I have update the link in the page and I have updated the yaml at the top of
the page but
 I think someone with root needs to run 'make new' to let the change to the
RSS collection propagate
otherwise the presence of the cache file stops that happening.
The feedburner feed is up at: http://feeds.feedburner.com/python/pyjobo and
the Twitter account is also pyjobo.
Thanks to Doug for the suggestion.

//M



>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>
>
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From mfoord at python.org  Mon Jun 28 22:03:28 2010
From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 21:03:28 +0100
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org>
	<4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>	<AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C290010.7020407@python.org>

On 28/06/2010 20:52, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> Is there a list of pydotorg RSS channels at all?
>    
I don't *believe* there is a single list of all "RSS channels" on 
pydotorg. I'm not sure that on python.org itself there are many, but if 
you include the several blogs on blogger (like the psf and pycon ones) 
then the count goes up.

A single list would be "nice", but as always someone has to create it 
and *then* keep it up to date.

Michael

-- 
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog

READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (?BOGUS AGREEMENTS?) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.



From doug.hellmann at gmail.com  Mon Jun 28 22:15:44 2010
From: doug.hellmann at gmail.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:15:44 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <4C290010.7020407@python.org>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org>
	<4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>	<AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C290010.7020407@python.org>
Message-ID: <561F00E6-317E-4C23-9913-712850FAD987@gmail.com>


On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:03 PM, Michael Foord wrote:

> On 28/06/2010 20:52, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> Is there a list of pydotorg RSS channels at all?
>>
> I don't *believe* there is a single list of all "RSS channels" on  
> pydotorg. I'm not sure that on python.org itself there are many, but  
> if you include the several blogs on blogger (like the psf and pycon  
> ones) then the count goes up.
>
> A single list would be "nice", but as always someone has to create  
> it and *then* keep it up to date.

Ethan Schoonover is working on a list of communication channels used  
by the PSF.  The various RSS feeds should be included.

Doug


From martin at martinthomas.net  Mon Jun 28 22:28:04 2010
From: martin at martinthomas.net (Martin Thomas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:28:04 -0500
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org> <4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>
	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTil3tdUSPf5XDg3jTwerANyBMIYD9cQEyyTMP-GE@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 2:52 PM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>wrote:

> Is there a list of pydotorg RSS channels at all?
>
One quick way would be to take a look in the source of almost any page in
python.org and you'll find a  list in the <meta/> section.

//M

--
> anatoly t.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:51 PM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Is there any URL to see what public stats feedburner provides except
> counter?
> > --
> > anatoly t.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Jun 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
> >>
> >>> Michael Foord wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 28/06/2010 19:30, Martin Thomas wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Greetings.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Would there be any objections to replacing the current URL for the
> Job
> >>>>> Board RSS feed with one from Feedburner?
> >>>>> The content would remain the same but we would have access to stats
> >>>>> such as clicks and location.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Not from me, I think it is a good idea. The old location should
> redirect
> >>>> to the feedburner feed and most rss clients will handle this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Feedburner can also provide a nice "browser friendly" version of the
> >>>> feed and offer features like email subscription if we want them.
> >>>>
> >>> +1
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pydotorg-www mailing list
> >> pydotorg-www at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> pydotorg-www mailing list
> pydotorg-www at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Jun 28 22:48:09 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:48:09 -0400
Subject: [pydotorg-www] Job Board RSS Feed
In-Reply-To: <561F00E6-317E-4C23-9913-712850FAD987@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikzvWcqbpfuUKcXkAV1ATbzb9P8k_NEbKIaZ5nR@mail.gmail.com>	<4C28ECAC.5020203@python.org>	<4C28F182.3010404@holdenweb.com>	<423DB9AD-8AB4-43AE-869E-BCA6964C5CB2@gmail.com>	<AANLkTilSNNc9fY4hCwykqmYRMb92dUAfXBAbqaRfV34p@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTimUo73wtZEA2rqnVCJoqErLH02nx5SS5qQ8hUYD@mail.gmail.com>	<4C290010.7020407@python.org>
	<561F00E6-317E-4C23-9913-712850FAD987@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C290A89.1090305@holdenweb.com>

Doug Hellmann wrote:
> 
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:03 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
> 
>> On 28/06/2010 20:52, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> Is there a list of pydotorg RSS channels at all?
>>>
>> I don't *believe* there is a single list of all "RSS channels" on
>> pydotorg. I'm not sure that on python.org itself there are many, but
>> if you include the several blogs on blogger (like the psf and pycon
>> ones) then the count goes up.
>>
>> A single list would be "nice", but as always someone has to create it
>> and *then* keep it up to date.
> 
> Ethan Schoonover is working on a list of communication channels used by
> the PSF.  The various RSS feeds should be included.
> 
Good point, Doug, well spotted!

regards
 Steve
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