[pydotorg-www] project plan (python.org and navigation)

[anatoly techtonik]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On Thursday 22 April 2010 23:14:19 Jesse Noller wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 5:04 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin at v.loewis.de>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > But there is: Quick Links/Windows installer. Plus there is "download
>> > Python now" in the center of the page.
>>
>> It's all text; for a lot of people, the text tends to merge together
>> in a big jumble when looking at the site; given the amount of text we
>> have on the front page, I'm not surprised.

Good point. The front page to me is rather clear, but the amount of
text on other pages tends to grow, outdate, but hardly shrink. I
remember first time I was planning to send patch to Python I was
reading various docs for several hours and then have troubles seeking
the address of viewvc interface.

> My experience with the python.org toolchain is that it seems to encourage
> monster sidebars because the sidebar menu and "quick links" are prominent
> features of the content format.

It may happen that Python has too much information to be present on
one site. And if it is so, then the whole site can be split into
several big parts - each with its own color scheme, but on the same
domain.

Right now I can see that there is PSF/corporative/supporters, user
tutorials/documentation, core development information and
conferences/irc/wiki/fun stuff. I can't see how they could be
completely separated, however. Esp. wiki - the only alive thing free
for users.

> Another thing with ReST is that if that's what you would rather use, you will
> only ever produce content that can be comfortably expressed in that format.

Docbook is much much much worse. =)

> As I experienced with ReST's predecessor, convenience of notation is a great
> thing, but after a while bundling stuff into nested lists is no substitute
> for a more compelling visual aid such as a table. Only Lisp programmers want
> to see all the content presented in a monotonous, uniform fashion. ;-)

Really? A tabless pydotorg? That's a real surprise. Now I see. Is
there any page describing current limitations (and optionally
advantages) of current pydotorg engine? Is there a description of
pre-pre engine?

I'd really like to see some wikipedia-like summary on the history of
www.python.org linked somewhere from
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonWebsite   It seems the "new-build"
is not that new anymore and old Redesign pages like may confuse people
and lead into wrong direction.  So the knowledge about previous
"mistakes" or implementation would help to design better system.

>> > What I also don't understand why these trivial changes have to wait for
>> > a revamp of the entire site.
>>
>> I don't consider any of this trivial, given the current design of the site.

I've missed that part. Does anybody have a link to these trivial
changes to judge? Preferably in this space -
http://wiki.python.org/moin/

> Stuff can be done to mitigate the problems. For EuroPython, I just asked to
> have access, and I've made these relatively minor changes which I hope aren't
> too disruptive. For python.org, and particularly for an outsider, the barrier
> to entry is just too high.

True. I still can't even compile site locally.
-- 
anatoly t.