From mike at poordog.net  Fri Oct 13 19:01:07 2006
From: mike at poordog.net (mike at poordog.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] build of website fails
Message-ID: <50924.71.101.252.4.1160758867.squirrel@webmail.poordog.net>

Hello,

I recently volunteered to help maintain the python.org website. I am
having a bit of trouble building the site on my local machine.

I installed most of the packages from apt-get and compiled some from source.
Everything seemed fine. So any suggestions would be appreciated.
I am guessing something was not installed correctly.

Anyhow, Here are the errors.


<snip>
Skipping pep-3103.txt (outfile up to date)
Rebuilding mirrors file
Rebuilding website
pyramid --data data --out out --resources images,styles,files,js
--relativeurls
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/pyramid", line 2, in ?
    from pyramid import build
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyramid/build.py", line 6, in ?
    from pyramid.flatteners import flatten
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyramid/flatteners.py", line 2, in ?
    from pyramid import restParser, page, yamlRegistry as Y, dictutils, utils
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyramid/yamlRegistry.py", line
220, in ?
    class Loader(syck.Loader):
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Loader'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org/build/build.py", line
154, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org/build/build.py", line
150, in main
    build(args)
  File "/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org/build/build.py", line 79,
in build
    build_site(args)
  File "/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org/build/build.py", line
112, in build_site
    cmd('%s %s' % (command, ' '.join(args)))
  File "/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org/build/build.py", line 58,
in cmd
    raise RuntimeError('%s failed w/ exit code %d' % (command, err))
RuntimeError: pyramid --data data --out out --resources
images,styles,files,js --relativeurls  failed w/ exit code 256
root at ubu:/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org# vi /usr/lib/python2.
python2.3/ python2.4/
root at ubu:/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org# vi
/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/py
pycurl.so    pygst.py     pygst.pyo    pygtk.py     pygtk.pyo    pyPgSQL/ 
   pyuno.so
pygst.pth    pygst.pyc    pygtk.pth    pygtk.pyc    pyid3lib.so  pyramid/
root at ubu:/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org# vi
/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyramid/build.py
</snip>

tulku at ubu:/var/www/beta.python.org/beta.python.org# python
Python 2.4.3 (#2, Apr 27 2006, 14:43:58)
[GCC 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from pyramid import yamlRegistry as Y, dictutils, utils
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/pyramid/yamlRegistry.py", line
220, in ?
    class Loader(syck.Loader):
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Loader'
>>>


thanks,
Mike


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Fri Oct 13 19:23:41 2006
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:23:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] build of website fails
In-Reply-To: <50924.71.101.252.4.1160758867.squirrel@webmail.poordog.net>
References: <50924.71.101.252.4.1160758867.squirrel@webmail.poordog.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610131315260.13038@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006, mike at poordog.net wrote:
> I recently volunteered to help maintain the python.org website. I am
> having a bit of trouble building the site on my local machine.
> 
> I installed most of the packages from apt-get and compiled some from source.
> Everything seemed fine. So any suggestions would be appreciated.
> I am guessing something was not installed correctly.

I think you have a wrong version of syck and/or pysck.  The 
"correct" versions are syck 0.55 and pysck 0.55.1.  Others may 
also work, of course.  I ran into this and ended up manually 
downloading and building each of the versions listed towards the 
end of:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonWebsitePyramidDocs

BTW, in case you're really ambitious and would like to help, we 
do want to make the toolchain easier to install and use.  We're 
probably heading towards abandoning Pyramid and instead either 
crafting a simpler custom solution based on rest2web or changing 
to something like Turbogears or Django or... something.

Of course that's down the road ... it's best to get started by 
fixing some of the higher priority items in the bug tracker.

- Stephan


From mike at poordog.net  Sat Oct 14 22:57:51 2006
From: mike at poordog.net (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:57:51 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] some questions
Message-ID: <74F357AB-3DDD-4D91-B0EB-DB522C97B165@poordog.net>

Alright, after fumbling a bit getting Syck installed correctly, I  
have built pydotorg successfully.

I am wondering since I am using apache2, should I just set DocRoot to  
point to the build out directory? Or am I missing something. This is  
what I have done so far, but I want to make sure this is the correct  
way.

Any other tips you can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike

From sdeibel at wingware.com  Mon Oct 16 16:55:36 2006
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:55:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] some questions
In-Reply-To: <74F357AB-3DDD-4D91-B0EB-DB522C97B165@poordog.net>
References: <74F357AB-3DDD-4D91-B0EB-DB522C97B165@poordog.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610161054330.17086@localhost.localdomain>

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006, Michael Steinfeld wrote:
> Alright, after fumbling a bit getting Syck installed correctly, I  
> have built pydotorg successfully.
> 
> I am wondering since I am using apache2, should I just set DocRoot to  
> point to the build out directory? Or am I missing something. This is  
> what I have done so far, but I want to make sure this is the correct  
> way.
> 
> Any other tips you can give me would be appreciated.

I've been using twistd as described in build/README and it works 
well.

- Stephan


From mike at poordog.net  Wed Oct 18 20:11:52 2006
From: mike at poordog.net (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:11:52 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] Ticket #408
Message-ID: <91DFE844-0643-4DAB-ADB1-FCAFA84F9F86@poordog.net>

Please read the comment to the ticket Stephan opened 2 weeks ago.

http://pydotorg.python.org/pydotorg/ticket/408

I just had some questions that maybe someone can enlighten me.


Also, I have fixed some other links that I will be sending that  
someone who has commit access can take care of, until I get my commit  
account.


Thanks,
  Mike

From mike at poordog.net  Thu Oct 19 01:56:43 2006
From: mike at poordog.net (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:56:43 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] quick break down of trac tickets
Message-ID: <C1759F64-8F41-492A-B8CF-313483D0B68F@poordog.net>

I know most everybody has more important things to do then worry  
about trivial problems on the website, but before I can really help  
out I need to understand some things.

first of all, a lot of the trac tickets are old but not closed. Do I  
assume that they are all in need of being completed or that they are  
actually taken care of but nobody closed them?

Also, I had a ticket where someone wanted us to post a link-claiming  
they had a lot of python jobs-to their job board, which was a  
marketing company. I searched for 'python jobs' and nothing came  
back. I closed the ticket and explained my reasons. I guess I should  
just use common sense in this regard?

I don't want to close tickets that I have no idea if they still stand  
or not. I guess I am pretty anal, but I hate seeing open tickets. I  
would like some suggestions on how I should go about cleaning them up  
and finding out of the issue has/hasn't been solved.

It also would be helpful if I had some knowledge on how a page is  
generated. It would save me some time not having to figure this all  
out on my own.

more or less a quick run down of the basic layout of pydotorg.

I'll probably have more questions soon.

Thanks in advance

Mike



From sdeibel at wingware.com  Thu Oct 19 03:53:43 2006
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:53:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] [Pydotorg] quick break down of trac tickets
In-Reply-To: <C1759F64-8F41-492A-B8CF-313483D0B68F@poordog.net>
References: <C1759F64-8F41-492A-B8CF-313483D0B68F@poordog.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610182153240.26015@localhost.localdomain>

[Only replying to pydotorg-www since pydotorg mailing list 
traffic should avoid things specific to the website build or 
content, except when sys admin intervention is needed]

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006, Michael Steinfeld wrote:
> I know most everybody has more important things to do then worry  
> about trivial problems on the website, but before I can really help  
> out I need to understand some things.
> 
> first of all, a lot of the trac tickets are old but not closed. Do I  
> assume that they are all in need of being completed or that they are  
> actually taken care of but nobody closed them?

All open tickets are tickets that nobody has looked at or have 
not been completed.   I've occassionally found tickets 
someone took care of by chance while doing something 
related, but this is fairly rare.

Whether we want all these tickets to be done is another story -- 
some we should just reject, but for now err on the side of 
leaving them open until you've gotten more experience with the 
website and contextual knowledge for making these decisions.

> Also, I had a ticket where someone wanted us to post a link-claiming  
> they had a lot of python jobs-to their job board, which was a  
> marketing company. I searched for 'python jobs' and nothing came  
> back. I closed the ticket and explained my reasons. I guess I should  
> just use common sense in this regard?

Yes.  If someone requests a link that makes no sense, it's pretty 
clear we should reject the request.  Feel free to apply common 
sense and for that kind of thing you don't need to worry about 
acquiring more knowledge about the website first! :-)

As an aside, policy for the mirrors list is that we add mirrors 
only if they are unaltered exact copies of the website.  Some 
people add a header/footer or alter content, usually with the 
intent of spamming Google.  Oh, and by the way, mirrors are 
listed in mirrors.db and processed down as part of the build 
process.  Don't edit the mirrors/content.rst file directly.

> I don't want to close tickets that I have no idea if they still stand  
> or not. I guess I am pretty anal, but I hate seeing open tickets. I  
> would like some suggestions on how I should go about cleaning them up  
> and finding out of the issue has/hasn't been solved.

When in doubt, post a comment or ask your question in the ticket 
and I and others will see that and can respond.  Or just post to 
pydotorg-www.  I tend to prefer doing it under the ticket but 
lengthy discussions in that context tend not be be fruitful.

> It also would be helpful if I had some knowledge on how a page is  
> generated. It would save me some time not having to figure this all  
> out on my own.
>
> more or less a quick run down of the basic layout of pydotorg.

It's black magic few of us understand!  (well, I guess that's not 
a joke really ;-)

What little I know:

The structure of the site is defined by the directory structure 
under build/data and the navigation and sub-navigation menus by 
the nav.yml and related files.  The overall page layout is 
defined closer to the top level and by the CSS.  Files are 
inherited from higher up in the directory structure, which is how 
the overall layout gets applied to all pages.  It's all somehow 
assembled by the yaml templates, and for a few pages/areas of the 
site also by some additional manipulations you can trace down by 
reading build/build.py.  For example, that builds PEPs 
semi-magically and also takes care of the news feed, mirrors 
list, and a few other things.  I look at this only when I need 
to.

On the live site, it's a different script that builds; see 
build/scripts/server-build.py.  Part of this is interleaving 
remaining pages from the old site w/ the new site content so 
unconverted pages still can be viewed.  Part of this is the need 
to auto-rebuild after Subversion commits.  Much of this code I've 
never really looked at in detail.

It's the layout inheritance and menus/submenus and page layout 
that can be confusing and I have to admit that I bungle around 
every time to find the right thing and don't have a complete 
understanding of it.

This and difficulty of installing the toolset and slowness to 
build the site are the key problems.  I think consensus is that 
we need a toolset redesign to address this, although it's up in 
the air how much has to be reworked -- for example, a make/scons 
dependency model might drastically speed up build, a single 
installer could make the tools easier to handle, and possibly 
some restructuring of how content, layout, and menus/submenus are 
specified might make that easier to understand.  

Of course we'ld also need understandible build error messages (w/ 
file / line number, for a start!), and a few other things, so it 
could well be we should abandon Pyramid entirely rather than 
tweaking it.  

But on the other hand, it might be easier to incrementally fix 
things than make a whole new toolset.  

You can see how it's easy to waffle about this (at least for me 
;-)

Andrew Kuchling has looked at using rest2web instead of Pyramid, 
and his experiment is checked into Subversion.  I haven't had 
time to look at it yet.

That's about all I know.  Hopefully it's useful.  Let me know if 
not...

- Stephan


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Thu Oct 19 04:36:18 2006
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (sdeibel)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] Ticket #408
In-Reply-To: <91DFE844-0643-4DAB-ADB1-FCAFA84F9F86@poordog.net>
References: <91DFE844-0643-4DAB-ADB1-FCAFA84F9F86@poordog.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610182233190.26015@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006, Michael Steinfeld wrote:
> Please read the comment to the ticket Stephan opened 2 weeks ago.
> 
> http://pydotorg.python.org/pydotorg/ticket/408
> 
> I just had some questions that maybe someone can enlighten me.

I'm not clear, actually, on where they even saw these urls.  The 
page /download/windows doesn't seem to include them.  This may 
have been fixed since the report by Anthony Baxter (the release 
manager for Python) or someone working on the 2.5 release.  I'd 
say close the bug.

- Stephan


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Oct 19 07:09:54 2006
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:09:54 +0200
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] [Pydotorg] quick break down of trac tickets
In-Reply-To: <C1759F64-8F41-492A-B8CF-313483D0B68F@poordog.net>
References: <C1759F64-8F41-492A-B8CF-313483D0B68F@poordog.net>
Message-ID: <453708A2.9050709@v.loewis.de>

Michael Steinfeld schrieb:
> I don't want to close tickets that I have no idea if they still stand  
> or not. I guess I am pretty anal, but I hate seeing open tickets. I  
> would like some suggestions on how I should go about cleaning them up  
> and finding out of the issue has/hasn't been solved.

If all else fails, you should ask the submitter of the ticket whether
the issue still exists. If there is no response after some time, close
it due to lack of feedback.

> It also would be helpful if I had some knowledge on how a page is  
> generated. It would save me some time not having to figure this all  
> out on my own.
> 
> more or less a quick run down of the basic layout of pydotorg.

Do you have a checkout of
https://svn.python.org/www/https://svn.python.org/www/
? If so, are you able to build it? If not, read the readmes.

Regards,
Martin

From mike at poordog.net  Thu Oct 26 00:28:14 2006
From: mike at poordog.net (Michael Steinfeld)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:28:14 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-www] svn view should include pydotorg
Message-ID: <8A4B778D-BED4-412D-85D2-DF9F73870D31@poordog.net>

Is there any reason why you can't browse pydotorg source tree from  
svn.python.org ?

It would helpful if you could.

I figure I will shout it out here on pydotorg-www@ and see if someone  
answers before I send it to pydotorg@
though this list is sorta hush these days, I know a few of you are  
our there.