From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  6 12:49:10 2010
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 13:49:10 +0300
Subject: [Pydotorg-redesign] Join pydotorg lists
In-Reply-To: <4B798936.10703@holdenweb.com>
References: <d34314101002150640j3ef1aa1dl5dd699b04290a99c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1266252366.20588.0.camel@workshop> <4B798936.10703@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <v2rd34314101004060349ycc4d56e5r7b6c2507d1a93dcd@mail.gmail.com>

So, who do I need to ask to process the merge?
-- 
anatoly t.



On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Michael R. Bernstein wrote:
>> On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 16:40 +0200, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> I'd like to propose joining pydotorg-www and pydotorg-redesign in one
>>> pydotorg mailing list to reduce clutter and provide single point of
>>> collaboration to improve the web site. Concentrating efforts in one
>>> place helps to keep people focused and increased activity attracts new
>>> contributors.
>>
>> +1
>
> Yes, why have two mailing lists that nothing happens on when you could
> just have one?
>
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Pydotorg-redesign mailing list
> Pydotorg-redesign at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign
>

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr  6 13:56:26 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 07:56:26 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-redesign] Join pydotorg lists
In-Reply-To: <v2rd34314101004060349ycc4d56e5r7b6c2507d1a93dcd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d34314101002150640j3ef1aa1dl5dd699b04290a99c@mail.gmail.com>	
	<1266252366.20588.0.camel@workshop> <4B798936.10703@holdenweb.com>
	<v2rd34314101004060349ycc4d56e5r7b6c2507d1a93dcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BBB216A.5040106@holdenweb.com>

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> So, who do I need to ask to process the merge?

I suspect that postmaster at python.org would need to be involved in the
mechanics, though I have no idea whether there is any established
procedure for such an operation.

I doubt it's necessary to merge content given the total archive size of
pydotorg-www is less than 50 kB. Wouldn't it just be easier to post a
message on that list telling people to subscribe instead to
pydotor-redesign (whose archives are under 200 kB), and then close
pydotorg-www down?

You said in your original message:

> I'd like to propose joining pydotorg-www and pydotorg-redesign in one
> pydotorg mailing list to reduce clutter and provide single point of
> collaboration to improve the web site. Concentrating efforts in one
> place helps to keep people focused and increased activity attracts new
> contributors.

Looking at the archives of both lists:

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-redesign/
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/

it seems the lack of interest in both of these newsgroups might make
simply closing one or both down the most practical approach. Or do you
have a specific purpose in mind after a merge?

In the past there has been a sort of "let's start a mailing list"
disease that people have used to persuade themselves that something will
happen.  Sadly experience proves that this isn't often the case, and the
result is yet another moribund mailing list that doesn't result in any
action.

Since there has been no response to your mail from anyone but Michael
and I (unless I have missed messages) I would suggest that both lists
are already pushing up the daisies.

I am, however, extremely interested in harnessing the energies of anyone
who is keen enough to take any sort of action. To that end I am making
Rich Leland, who has recently undertaken to look at the web site with a
view to modernization of both content management and design, aware of
this thread. He may contact you about this (but I am not committing him
to any specific action).

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
See PyCon Talks from Atlanta 2010  http://pycon.blip.tv/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From techtonik at gmail.com  Tue Apr  6 15:10:46 2010
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:10:46 +0300
Subject: [Pydotorg-redesign] Join pydotorg lists
In-Reply-To: <4BBB216A.5040106@holdenweb.com>
References: <d34314101002150640j3ef1aa1dl5dd699b04290a99c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1266252366.20588.0.camel@workshop> <4B798936.10703@holdenweb.com>
	<v2rd34314101004060349ycc4d56e5r7b6c2507d1a93dcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BBB216A.5040106@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <p2md34314101004060610k30a040c9q9f568e4d0af39b0d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
> I suspect that postmaster at python.org would need to be involved in the
> mechanics, though I have no idea whether there is any established
> procedure for such an operation.

Added to CC.

> I doubt it's necessary to merge content given the total archive size of
> pydotorg-www is less than 50 kB. Wouldn't it just be easier to post a
> message on that list telling people to subscribe instead to
> pydotor-redesign (whose archives are under 200 kB), and then close
> pydotorg-www down?
>
> You said in your original message:
>
>> I'd like to propose joining pydotorg-www and pydotorg-redesign in one
>> pydotorg mailing list to reduce clutter and provide single point of
>> collaboration to improve the web site. Concentrating efforts in one
>> place helps to keep people focused and increased activity attracts new
>> contributors.
>
> Looking at the archives of both lists:
>
> ?http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-redesign/
> ?http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/
>
> it seems the lack of interest in both of these newsgroups might make
> simply closing one or both down the most practical approach. Or do you
> have a specific purpose in mind after a merge?

I think shutting them both down is the best approach, but this
requires pydotorg list to became public. Is there any reason why
pydotorg can't be made public taking into account that security issues
can be reported directly (or discussed in private
webmaster at python.org) and SVN is public already?

> In the past there has been a sort of "let's start a mailing list"
> disease that people have used to persuade themselves that something will
> happen. ?Sadly experience proves that this isn't often the case, and the
> result is yet another moribund mailing list that doesn't result in any
> action.

That's logical. The activity should be focused, not scattered.

> Since there has been no response to your mail from anyone but Michael
> and I (unless I have missed messages) I would suggest that both lists
> are already pushing up the daisies.
>
> I am, however, extremely interested in harnessing the energies of anyone
> who is keen enough to take any sort of action. To that end I am making
> Rich Leland, who has recently undertaken to look at the web site with a
> view to modernization of both content management and design, aware of
> this thread. He may contact you about this (but I am not committing him
> to any specific action).

That's nice. I would start with focusing our efforts on making
python.org site contributions more open.

The top thing in my pydotorg next-things-to-be-done is merging the
mailing lists.
The proposed plan for it is:

1. open pydotorg to be public
2. open pydotorg-commits to be public - SVN repository is public anyway
3. close public pydotorg-redesign and pydotorg-www
4. publish an announcement to closed lists that all discussions now
take place in pydotorg
5. update mailman list description pages
6. move subscribers from old mailing lists to pydotorg
7. update http://www.python.org/dev/pydotorg/,
http://www.python.org/dev/pydotorg/website/,
http://www.python.org/about/website and the link "Help Maintain
Website"

Right now I do not have privileges to carry any of these tasks. Who is
able to do this?
-- 
anatoly t.

From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Apr  6 15:47:36 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 09:47:36 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-redesign] Join pydotorg lists
In-Reply-To: <p2md34314101004060610k30a040c9q9f568e4d0af39b0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d34314101002150640j3ef1aa1dl5dd699b04290a99c@mail.gmail.com>	
	<1266252366.20588.0.camel@workshop> <4B798936.10703@holdenweb.com>	
	<v2rd34314101004060349ycc4d56e5r7b6c2507d1a93dcd@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4BBB216A.5040106@holdenweb.com>
	<p2md34314101004060610k30a040c9q9f568e4d0af39b0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BBB3B78.30300@holdenweb.com>

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> I suspect that postmaster at python.org would need to be involved in the
>> mechanics, though I have no idea whether there is any established
>> procedure for such an operation.
> 
> Added to CC.
> 
>> I doubt it's necessary to merge content given the total archive size of
>> pydotorg-www is less than 50 kB. Wouldn't it just be easier to post a
>> message on that list telling people to subscribe instead to
>> pydotor-redesign (whose archives are under 200 kB), and then close
>> pydotorg-www down?
>>
>> You said in your original message:
>>
>>> I'd like to propose joining pydotorg-www and pydotorg-redesign in one
>>> pydotorg mailing list to reduce clutter and provide single point of
>>> collaboration to improve the web site. Concentrating efforts in one
>>> place helps to keep people focused and increased activity attracts new
>>> contributors.
>> Looking at the archives of both lists:
>>
>>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-redesign/
>>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pydotorg-www/
>>
>> it seems the lack of interest in both of these newsgroups might make
>> simply closing one or both down the most practical approach. Or do you
>> have a specific purpose in mind after a merge?
> 
> I think shutting them both down is the best approach, but this
> requires pydotorg list to became public. Is there any reason why
> pydotorg can't be made public taking into account that security issues
> can be reported directly (or discussed in private
> webmaster at python.org) and SVN is public already?
> 
>> In the past there has been a sort of "let's start a mailing list"
>> disease that people have used to persuade themselves that something will
>> happen.  Sadly experience proves that this isn't often the case, and the
>> result is yet another moribund mailing list that doesn't result in any
>> action.
> 
> That's logical. The activity should be focused, not scattered.
> 
>> Since there has been no response to your mail from anyone but Michael
>> and I (unless I have missed messages) I would suggest that both lists
>> are already pushing up the daisies.
>>
>> I am, however, extremely interested in harnessing the energies of anyone
>> who is keen enough to take any sort of action. To that end I am making
>> Rich Leland, who has recently undertaken to look at the web site with a
>> view to modernization of both content management and design, aware of
>> this thread. He may contact you about this (but I am not committing him
>> to any specific action).
> 
> That's nice. I would start with focusing our efforts on making
> python.org site contributions more open.
> 
> The top thing in my pydotorg next-things-to-be-done is merging the
> mailing lists.
> The proposed plan for it is:
> 
> 1. open pydotorg to be public
> 2. open pydotorg-commits to be public - SVN repository is public anyway
> 3. close public pydotorg-redesign and pydotorg-www
> 4. publish an announcement to closed lists that all discussions now
> take place in pydotorg
> 5. update mailman list description pages
> 6. move subscribers from old mailing lists to pydotorg
> 7. update http://www.python.org/dev/pydotorg/,
> http://www.python.org/dev/pydotorg/website/,
> http://www.python.org/about/website and the link "Help Maintain
> Website"
> 
> Right now I do not have privileges to carry any of these tasks. Who is
> able to do this?

Well, not me! I've taken you as far as I can, and the rest will have to
be discussed on the pydotorg list.I have removed the postmaster Cc,
since they won't be interested in the minutiae and can be added again
later when action is required.

I am copying this email to the pydotorg list without knowing whether you
are a member, but I am no longer an active participant there due to
pressure of other activities.

Good luck!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
See PyCon Talks from Atlanta 2010  http://pycon.blip.tv/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

From amk at amk.ca  Tue Apr 13 15:09:05 2010
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:09:05 -0400
Subject: [Pydotorg-redesign] Shutting down pydotorg-redesign
Message-ID: <20100413130905.GA2759@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>

As part of a clean-up of the web site related mailing lists on
python.org, this list (pydotorg-redesign) is being shut down.

The mailing list clean-up is currently being discussed on the pydotorg
list, and there was a pretty clear consensus that pydotorg-redesign
was no longer necessary.

You don't need to do anything as a result of this change.

I'm leaving people's subscriptions in place, so you can still get to
the list archives.  Optionally, you can go to
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign and
unsubscribe.

Password reminders will be turned off, the list will no longer be
publicly advertised by Mailman, and all traffic will be moderated (so
if you post a message, it will be held and I'll suggest you post
somewhere else).

Future discussions of redesigning python.org should take place on the
pydotorg-www; you can subscribe at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www>.


A.M. Kuchling 
amk at amk.ca