From diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 20:53:29 2015
From: diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com (Diana Clarke)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 20:53:29 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF Board Meeting Minutes - 2015-10-12
Message-ID: <CAEZAPrAVtBp-=N0rn=wkBfDfXQ-mq2jN5uv-X2x+B_6dJQN3gg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks:

The PSF board meeting minutes from October 12th, 2015 are now available online:

    https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/2015-10-12/

The following grants (https://www.python.org/psf/grants/) were
approved since the last meeting, totalling $9,853 USD.

  - Santa Cruz Python Meetup Grant
    http://www.meetup.com/Santa-Cruz-Python-Meetup/
    Santa Cruz, USA
    Amount: $300 USD

  - PyDX
    http://pydx.org/
    Portland, USA
    October 10-11, 2015
    Amount: $1200 USD

  - PyHawaii Mini-Conference 2015
    http://www.pyhawaii.com/
    Hawaii, USA
    December, 2015
    Amount: $650 USD

  - PyCon Argentina
    http://ar.pycon.org/
    Mendoza, Argentina
    November 12-14, 2015
    Amount: $3,500 USD

  - Wroclove Code Carrots Workshop
    http://geekgirlscarrots.org/3775/wroclove-code-carrots-3
    Wroc?aw, Poland
    October 17-18, 2015
    Amount: $600 USD

  - Soweto Hack Community Project
    Soweto, South Africa
    Amount: $603 USD

  - Tassajara Hills Elementary School Education Project
    https://thes-srvusd-ca.schoolloop.com/
    Danville, USA
    Amount: $300 USD

  - PyCon SK 2016
    https://pycon.sk/en/
    Bratislava, Slovakia
    March 11-13, 2016
    Amount: $1,500 USD

  - PyCode Carrots Workshop
    http://geekgirlscarrots.org/3720/pycode-carrots-workshop
    Warsaw Poland
    November 20-22, 2015
    Amount: $900 USD

  - Taiwan Python User Group Grant
    http://www.meetup.com/Kaohsiung-Python-Meetup/
    Kaohsiung, Taiwan
    Amount: $300 USD

For more updates from the PSF, please visit our blog and follow us on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/ThePSF
    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/

Cheers,

--diana

From diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com  Thu Nov  5 19:39:28 2015
From: diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com (Diana Clarke)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 19:39:28 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Jobs - The PSF - Infrastructure Manager
Message-ID: <CAEZAPrDyj8jFjWh2PHN9-D-DJv6V52e-v2R5BH5OXfuywDOD5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks:

The Python Software Foundation is hiring a part-time Infrastructure Manager.

More information about this position can be found here:

    https://www.python.org/jobs/767/

Resumes will be accepted until mid-November.

Thanks,

--diana

From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 02:04:41 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:04:41 +1000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Research on teaching Python vs. other languages?
In-Reply-To: <562FD83C.5090503@nedbatchelder.com>
References: <562FD83C.5090503@nedbatchelder.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fv11NA8UOowLmKD1sEdiKqtH-iPy4bsRBupOR8ZpCruA@mail.gmail.com>

On 28 October 2015 at 06:02, Ned Batchelder <ned at nedbatchelder.com> wrote:
> A friend at a CS department is advocating to switch to Python as the
> teaching language rather than Java.  Some of his peers would like some
> evidence (research?) that Python is better-suited as a first language.
> Anyone have links to such a thing?

Late to the discussion, but the article Greg Wilson references here is
worth a look: http://neverworkintheory.org/2014/01/29/stefik-siebert-syntax.html

The interesting aspect of that one is that it provides some
peer-reviewed research suggesting that Python and Ruby are genuinely
easier to learn than Java and Perl, rather than that just being a
subjective impression.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From mal at python.org  Wed Nov 18 16:34:15 2015
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:34:15 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
Message-ID: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>

Hello PSF Community,

as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
the UK and probably also some other countries.

Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
use of the PSFs grant funds.

These are some services I've found:

 * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
 * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
 * http://attending.io/ (free)
 * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
   much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)

For BarCamps:

 * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)

Some questions:

 * Do you know other such services ?
 * What's your experience with these ?
 * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
   to move to a different platform ?

I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From don at sheu.com  Wed Nov 18 16:50:57 2015
From: don at sheu.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:50:57 -0800
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAM-7wP+7wuU6jHwUwS0PUA_BNSqhWwRYQ2O-=tGUbXOu7NGxKQ@mail.gmail.com>

There's many features I wish Meetup included. For example, Eventbrite has
great check-in mobile app for both iPhone and Android.

For a many months at PuPPy we used Meetup for our announcements to members
and directed event attendees to Eventbrite for RSVPs and check-ins. It
probably created too much UX overhead for our members. I believe our
turnout suffered because of this.

But Meetup is great at social graph connections for new members. We've
grown from zero in August 2014 to over 1300 members thanks to the good job
Meetup does in connecting us with the community interested in Python in the
greater Seattle region.

We have now retired the experiment of using Eventbrite and going solely
with Meetup. We hope to with the help of Meetup's good job of connecting us
with individual interested in Python in our region to get to 2000 members
in six months.
?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 1:34 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> Hello PSF Community,
>
> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>
> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>
> These are some services I've found:
>
>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>
> For BarCamps:
>
>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>
> Some questions:
>
>  * Do you know other such services ?
>  * What's your experience with these ?
>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>    to move to a different platform ?
>
> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>



-- 
Don Sheu
312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
*http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*


*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From gmludo at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 16:59:46 2015
From: gmludo at gmail.com (Ludovic Gasc)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:59:46 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAON-fpHBvxrNgcwGy59sQFx-KKoOyNgKW42K_3RAia9X8G2O5g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Marc,

I'm agree with your approach to try to optimise PSF ressources.

However, at least in Belgium, I must recognise that we have now more people
since we've migrated on meetup.com.

At least to me, I prefer to increase the potential audience of a meetup
than reduce cost.

Nevertheless, keep meetup.com and reduce costs shouldn't be incompatible:
With the number of Python groups on their platform, we should have a big
argument to negotiate a better group price.

It isn't a good signal for them if Python groups leave their platform: the
network effect should play in our favour to negotiate.

What do you think?

Ludovic Gasc (GMLudo)
http://www.gmludo.eu/
On 18 Nov 2015 22:39, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at python.org> wrote:

> Hello PSF Community,
>
> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>
> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>
> These are some services I've found:
>
>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>
> For BarCamps:
>
>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>
> Some questions:
>
>  * Do you know other such services ?
>  * What's your experience with these ?
>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>    to move to a different platform ?
>
> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From doug at doughellmann.com  Wed Nov 18 17:16:13 2015
From: doug at doughellmann.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:16:13 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAON-fpHBvxrNgcwGy59sQFx-KKoOyNgKW42K_3RAia9X8G2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <CAON-fpHBvxrNgcwGy59sQFx-KKoOyNgKW42K_3RAia9X8G2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B3863083-C92C-4228-874D-71AF0D4A577C@doughellmann.com>


> On Nov 18, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Ludovic Gasc <gmludo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Marc,
> 
> I'm agree with your approach to try to optimise PSF ressources.
> 
> However, at least in Belgium, I must recognise that we have now more people since we've migrated on meetup.com <http://meetup.com/>.
> 
> At least to me, I prefer to increase the potential audience of a meetup than reduce cost.
> 

I agree. Moving my group off of meetup.com would be disruptive, since we?ve started to use some of their discussion board tools for group communication.

> Nevertheless, keep meetup.com <http://meetup.com/> and reduce costs shouldn't be incompatible:
> With the number of Python groups on their platform, we should have a big argument to negotiate a better group price.
> 
> It isn't a good signal for them if Python groups leave their platform: the network effect should play in our favour to negotiate.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Ludovic Gasc (GMLudo)
> http://www.gmludo.eu/ <http://www.gmludo.eu/>
> On 18 Nov 2015 22:39, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at python.org <mailto:mal at python.org>> wrote:
> Hello PSF Community,
> 
> as many of you know, meeptup.com <http://meeptup.com/> is pretty much the standard when
> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
> the UK and probably also some other countries.
> 
> Now, meetup.com <http://meetup.com/> is also a rather expensive service to use and
> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
> use of the PSFs grant funds.
> 
> These are some services I've found:
> 
>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ <http://www.eventbrite.com/> (free for free events)
>  * https://www.farornear.com/ <https://www.farornear.com/> (free)
>  * http://attending.io/ <http://attending.io/> (free)
>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events <https://www.xing.com/de/events> (free for free events,
>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
> 
> For BarCamps:
> 
>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ <https://www.barcamptools.eu/> (again, mostly in Germany)
> 
> Some questions:
> 
>  * Do you know other such services ?
>  * What's your experience with these ?
>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com <http://meetup.com/>, would you be willing
>    to move to a different platform ?
> 
> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org <http://python.org/>
> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com <http://meetup.com/> alternatives.
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/ <http://www.python.org/psf/>
> http://www.malemburg.com/ <http://www.malemburg.com/>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org <mailto:PSF-Community at python.org>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community

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From lac at openend.se  Wed Nov 18 17:16:26 2015
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 23:16:26 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
Message-ID: <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>

In a message of Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:34:15 +0100, "M.-A. Lemburg" writes:
>Hello PSF Community,
>
>as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
>it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
>the UK and probably also some other countries.
>
>Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
>with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
>encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
>use of the PSFs grant funds.
>
>These are some services I've found:
>
> * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
> * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
> * http://attending.io/ (free)
> * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>   much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>
>For BarCamps:
>
> * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>
>Some questions:
>
> * Do you know other such services ?
> * What's your experience with these ?
> * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>   to move to a different platform ?
>
>I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
>wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>
>Thanks,
>-- 
>Marc-Andre Lemburg
>Director
>Python Software Foundation
>http://www.python.org/psf/
>http://www.malemburg.com/

In the USA, I think it is still hopeless.  (It was a decade ago, when
I last looked into it.)  The problem was that meetup.com so dominates
the field in the USA that a majority of Americans believe that,
should they be looking for a group about X, they can check meetup.com,
and, if they don't find a group, then that group does not exist. No
further checking is needed.

This means, if you want to attract new members, you have to have a
meetup.com presence. And, this, of course means that the heuristic 'if
it doesn't have a meetup.com, it doesn't exist' becomes more and more
true.  This must be rather nice for meetup.com -- despite many efforts,
theirs is a monopoly which seems very hard to break.

I talked to more than a dozen people who really hate meetup.com, and
the message was the same --it was the only way to reach new potential 
members -- so it was more or less irrelevant to ask them if they would 
be willing to use a different service.  The answer was 'in addition
to meetup.com , i.e. to actually have the meetings -- oh yes, we do
that.  But we still have to pay the meetup.com fees for a meetup.com
online presence, or else we would never attract new members.

I'd be happy to see that this has changed.  

Laura

From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Nov 18 17:17:10 2015
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:17:10 +0000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAON-fpHBvxrNgcwGy59sQFx-KKoOyNgKW42K_3RAia9X8G2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <CAON-fpHBvxrNgcwGy59sQFx-KKoOyNgKW42K_3RAia9X8G2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMofdRC-S27YfLuaxGQPJmircidDcxM_e-eZdArqx6-1JPDZ0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ludovic,

Apparently (http://www.meetup.com/about/) there are 9,000 meetups a day.
Supposing each group meets once a week (and many meet less often, so this
is clearly an underestimate) that would mean there are 63,000 meetup
groups. So while I like your thinking, I suspect that we could not claim
that Python groups are sufficiently popular to have much "clout"
(credibility of threat in a negotiating position) with Meetup.com.

Free events that I have organized through Eventbrite have usually been
largely trouble-free, but usually they have been limited to low numbers
(<50). One thing I like is the ability to have people pay a significant
amount (say $100) which is refunded on attendance. This is a useful way to
avoid too many no-shows (and at least make sure that you get some funding
from the wasted places).

I've organized conferences of up to 500 people with Eventbrite, but many of
them had sufficient revenues to justify the cost of handling the
administration of drop-out refunds, place substitutions and the like. Maybe
we should talk to Eventbrite about some deal on reduced commissions, and
particularly on the provision of a more "lightweight" user interface on the
admin side. In my experience they are happy to listen to suggestions, at
least, though clearly they are guided largely by commercial priorities.

They might also be able to offer better ways of organizing meetings such as
meetups. They acquired Lanyrd a while ago, and Lanyrd is a good Python
company too, but I don't know whether that would win any credibility with
the management.

regards
 Steve

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Ludovic Gasc <gmludo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marc,
>
> I'm agree with your approach to try to optimise PSF ressources.
>
> However, at least in Belgium, I must recognise that we have now more
> people since we've migrated on meetup.com.
>
> At least to me, I prefer to increase the potential audience of a meetup
> than reduce cost.
>
> Nevertheless, keep meetup.com and reduce costs shouldn't be incompatible:
> With the number of Python groups on their platform, we should have a big
> argument to negotiate a better group price.
>
> It isn't a good signal for them if Python groups leave their platform: the
> network effect should play in our favour to negotiate.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ludovic Gasc (GMLudo)
> http://www.gmludo.eu/
> On 18 Nov 2015 22:39, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at python.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello PSF Community,
>>
>> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
>> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
>> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>>
>> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
>> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
>> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
>> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>>
>> These are some services I've found:
>>
>>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>>
>> For BarCamps:
>>
>>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>>
>> Some questions:
>>
>>  * Do you know other such services ?
>>  * What's your experience with these ?
>>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>>    to move to a different platform ?
>>
>> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
>> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> Director
>> Python Software Foundation
>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From alan at jydo.com  Wed Nov 18 17:48:27 2015
From: alan at jydo.com (Alan Vezina)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:48:27 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAMofdRC-S27YfLuaxGQPJmircidDcxM_e-eZdArqx6-1JPDZ0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <CAON-fpHBvxrNgcwGy59sQFx-KKoOyNgKW42K_3RAia9X8G2O5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMofdRC-S27YfLuaxGQPJmircidDcxM_e-eZdArqx6-1JPDZ0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9ZdH9A7+hWH=U_Gg+s=cGOg94wJOnU4rzteLEx8OfWzHH1+A@mail.gmail.com>

I am a Co-organizer if PuPPy with Don Sheu. When I am on check-in duty I
ask everyone if it is there first time attending PuPPy, if it is I ask how
they found out. I would say 90% say meetup.com, often through email
recommendations. The other ten percent come from referrals. Getting rid of
meetup.com just doesn't seem reasonable at this time.

Meetup does a wonderful job of marketing our meetup on our behalf without
any effort on our end. When we stopped using meetup for our registrations
our growth rate stagnated.

- Alan Vezina
On Nov 18, 2015 5:17 PM, "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Hi Ludovic,
>
> Apparently (http://www.meetup.com/about/) there are 9,000 meetups a day.
> Supposing each group meets once a week (and many meet less often, so this
> is clearly an underestimate) that would mean there are 63,000 meetup
> groups. So while I like your thinking, I suspect that we could not claim
> that Python groups are sufficiently popular to have much "clout"
> (credibility of threat in a negotiating position) with Meetup.com.
>
> Free events that I have organized through Eventbrite have usually been
> largely trouble-free, but usually they have been limited to low numbers
> (<50). One thing I like is the ability to have people pay a significant
> amount (say $100) which is refunded on attendance. This is a useful way to
> avoid too many no-shows (and at least make sure that you get some funding
> from the wasted places).
>
> I've organized conferences of up to 500 people with Eventbrite, but many
> of them had sufficient revenues to justify the cost of handling the
> administration of drop-out refunds, place substitutions and the like. Maybe
> we should talk to Eventbrite about some deal on reduced commissions, and
> particularly on the provision of a more "lightweight" user interface on the
> admin side. In my experience they are happy to listen to suggestions, at
> least, though clearly they are guided largely by commercial priorities.
>
> They might also be able to offer better ways of organizing meetings such
> as meetups. They acquired Lanyrd a while ago, and Lanyrd is a good Python
> company too, but I don't know whether that would win any credibility with
> the management.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Ludovic Gasc <gmludo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Marc,
>>
>> I'm agree with your approach to try to optimise PSF ressources.
>>
>> However, at least in Belgium, I must recognise that we have now more
>> people since we've migrated on meetup.com.
>>
>> At least to me, I prefer to increase the potential audience of a meetup
>> than reduce cost.
>>
>> Nevertheless, keep meetup.com and reduce costs shouldn't be incompatible:
>> With the number of Python groups on their platform, we should have a big
>> argument to negotiate a better group price.
>>
>> It isn't a good signal for them if Python groups leave their platform:
>> the network effect should play in our favour to negotiate.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Ludovic Gasc (GMLudo)
>> http://www.gmludo.eu/
>> On 18 Nov 2015 22:39, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello PSF Community,
>>>
>>> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
>>> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
>>> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>>>
>>> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
>>> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
>>> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
>>> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>>>
>>> These are some services I've found:
>>>
>>>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>>>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>>>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>>>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>>>
>>> For BarCamps:
>>>
>>>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>>>
>>> Some questions:
>>>
>>>  * Do you know other such services ?
>>>  * What's your experience with these ?
>>>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>>>    to move to a different platform ?
>>>
>>> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
>>> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>> Director
>>> Python Software Foundation
>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From ntoll at ntoll.org  Wed Nov 18 17:56:58 2015
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:56:58 +0000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
Message-ID: <564D023A.5050103@ntoll.org>

to.to worked really well for PyCon UK this year.

N.

On 18/11/15 21:34, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Hello PSF Community,
> 
> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
> the UK and probably also some other countries.
> 
> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
> use of the PSFs grant funds.
> 
> These are some services I've found:
> 
>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
> 
> For BarCamps:
> 
>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
> 
> Some questions:
> 
>  * Do you know other such services ?
>  * What's your experience with these ?
>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>    to move to a different platform ?
> 
> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
> 
> Thanks,
> 


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From gatufo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 19:29:20 2015
From: gatufo at gmail.com (Javier Casas)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 01:29:20 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsored Tickets to PyConES 2015
Message-ID: <CAA_Ao_XsTRUPVvPnZ8M9My3B_5A93OPj16eHhov3kCR0tAsk5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Betsy,

I was planning to attend PyConES, but all tickets were sold out. I would
love to have 1 conference ticket, I will even pay for it :-)

Let me know if you can provide me one.

Thanks in advance,
Javier
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From ntoll at ntoll.org  Wed Nov 18 17:57:31 2015
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:57:31 +0000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564D023A.5050103@ntoll.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org> <564D023A.5050103@ntoll.org>
Message-ID: <564D025B.7090409@ntoll.org>

oops... that should be ti.to

N.

On 18/11/15 22:56, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:
> to.to worked really well for PyCon UK this year.
> 
> N.
> 
> On 18/11/15 21:34, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Hello PSF Community,
>>
>> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
>> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
>> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>>
>> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
>> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
>> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
>> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>>
>> These are some services I've found:
>>
>>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>>
>> For BarCamps:
>>
>>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>>
>> Some questions:
>>
>>  * Do you know other such services ?
>>  * What's your experience with these ?
>>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>>    to move to a different platform ?
>>
>> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
>> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
> 
> 


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From encukou at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 20:46:15 2015
From: encukou at gmail.com (Petr Viktorin)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 02:46:15 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
Message-ID: <564D29E7.5060209@gmail.com>

On 11/18/2015 11:16 PM, Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Wed, 18 Nov 2015 22:34:15 +0100, "M.-A. Lemburg" writes:
>> Hello PSF Community,
>>
>> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
>> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
>> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>>
>> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
>> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
>> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
>> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>>
>> These are some services I've found:
>>
>> * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>> * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>> * http://attending.io/ (free)
>> * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>>   much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>>
>> For BarCamps:
>>
>> * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>>
>> Some questions:
>>
>> * Do you know other such services ?
>> * What's your experience with these ?
>> * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>>   to move to a different platform ?
>>
>> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
>> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- 
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> Director
>> Python Software Foundation
>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>> http://www.malemburg.com/
> 
> In the USA, I think it is still hopeless.  (It was a decade ago, when
> I last looked into it.)  The problem was that meetup.com so dominates
> the field in the USA that a majority of Americans believe that,
> should they be looking for a group about X, they can check meetup.com,
> and, if they don't find a group, then that group does not exist. No
> further checking is needed.
> 
> This means, if you want to attract new members, you have to have a
> meetup.com presence. And, this, of course means that the heuristic 'if
> it doesn't have a meetup.com, it doesn't exist' becomes more and more
> true.  This must be rather nice for meetup.com -- despite many efforts,
> theirs is a monopoly which seems very hard to break.
> 
> I talked to more than a dozen people who really hate meetup.com, and
> the message was the same --it was the only way to reach new potential 
> members -- so it was more or less irrelevant to ask them if they would 
> be willing to use a different service.  The answer was 'in addition
> to meetup.com , i.e. to actually have the meetings -- oh yes, we do
> that.  But we still have to pay the meetup.com fees for a meetup.com
> online presence, or else we would never attract new members.
> 
> I'd be happy to see that this has changed.  


Hello from the Czech Republic, where meetup.com is not used that much.

There are three cities with Python meetups:
Prague - uses Lanyrd.com [0], and somehow manages to have good attendance
Brno - Lanyrd [1] and Facebook. It seems it's mainly the Facebook event
that draws in the people
Ostrava - srazy.info [2] (a Czech service), and Facebook. (Plus a
rudimentary Lanyrd entry just to show up on a shared calendar.) Again,
Facebook seems to reach most people.

In September, an expat looked at meetup.com and concluded that there are
no Python meetups in Prague, so he founded one. There was one instance
of that [3].
The Prague events are on meetup.com since then [4], but I don't think it
makes that much of a dent in attendance.


I guess the upshot is that instead of having one expensive service, you
could have Facebook (which is pretty hostile for any kind of interaction
other than being glued to their feed all day), or even put the info on
several sites and update each one individually.


[0] praha.pyvo.cz
[1] brno.pyvo.cz
[2] ostrava.pyvo.cz
[3] http://www.meetup.com/czech-python-meetup/
[4] http://www.meetup.com/Prague-Python-Meetup-NaPyVo/


From uche at ogbuji.net  Wed Nov 18 21:53:20 2015
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:53:20 -0700
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
Message-ID: <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>

Good topic. Good thread.

I'm not so sure it's as hopeless as it may seem to avoid meetup.com. As
powerful and entrenched as meetup.com is, I would wager that a couple of
orders of magnitude more people check plain ol' Google for events than
check meetup.com.

Google has recently added support for rich snippets for events, and does
some really useful things with those snippets without a user even having to
leave the search page.

https://developers.google.com/structured-data/rich-snippets/events?hl=en

Furthermore, where Google goes with structured Web metadata the others
(Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, Baidu...) tend to follow eventually.

I'd suggest that some combination of a meetup.com alternative for
RSVP/registration hosting with a PSF-curated web page including
snippet-enriched ( http://schema.org ) Python event descriptions could
offer even more reach than meetup.com alone.


-- 
Uche Ogbuji                                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
Founding Partner, Zepheira                  http://zepheira.com
Author, _Ndewo, Colorado_                 http://uche.ogbuji.net/ndewo/
Founding editor, Kin Poetry Journal      http://wearekin.org
http://copia.ogbuji.net    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
http://twitter.com/uogbuji
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From jackiekazil at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 23:04:41 2015
From: jackiekazil at gmail.com (Jacqueline Kazil)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 23:04:41 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>

What about trying to negotiate a deal w/ meetup for a bulk buy?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote:

> Good topic. Good thread.
>
> I'm not so sure it's as hopeless as it may seem to avoid meetup.com. As
> powerful and entrenched as meetup.com is, I would wager that a couple of
> orders of magnitude more people check plain ol' Google for events than
> check meetup.com.
>
> Google has recently added support for rich snippets for events, and does
> some really useful things with those snippets without a user even having to
> leave the search page.
>
> https://developers.google.com/structured-data/rich-snippets/events?hl=en
>
> Furthermore, where Google goes with structured Web metadata the others
> (Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, Baidu...) tend to follow eventually.
>
> I'd suggest that some combination of a meetup.com alternative for
> RSVP/registration hosting with a PSF-curated web page including
> snippet-enriched ( http://schema.org ) Python event descriptions could
> offer even more reach than meetup.com alone.
>
>
> --
> Uche Ogbuji                                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
> Founding Partner, Zepheira                  http://zepheira.com
> Author, _Ndewo, Colorado_                 http://uche.ogbuji.net/ndewo/
> Founding editor, Kin Poetry Journal      http://wearekin.org
> http://copia.ogbuji.net    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
> http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil
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From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 00:08:44 2015
From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:08:44 +1100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADhgxgcmniOLO2XrY2HV28DNkUKx318k-P_KYoCsya+zwt-LGg@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, I'd counter that to some degree. I often use Meetup to search
because they often have clearer information around how active the group is,
when the last meeting was etc etc. It's often more helpful than a general
wiki page, or articles "about" meetup groups, or do I search for user group
or interest group. Probably, I do both. But I find Google doesn't always
give me what I'm looking for, but an active meetup group does.

On 19 November 2015 at 13:53, Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote:

> Good topic. Good thread.
>
> I'm not so sure it's as hopeless as it may seem to avoid meetup.com. As
> powerful and entrenched as meetup.com is, I would wager that a couple of
> orders of magnitude more people check plain ol' Google for events than
> check meetup.com.
>
> Google has recently added support for rich snippets for events, and does
> some really useful things with those snippets without a user even having to
> leave the search page.
>
> https://developers.google.com/structured-data/rich-snippets/events?hl=en
>
> Furthermore, where Google goes with structured Web metadata the others
> (Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, Baidu...) tend to follow eventually.
>
> I'd suggest that some combination of a meetup.com alternative for
> RSVP/registration hosting with a PSF-curated web page including
> snippet-enriched ( http://schema.org ) Python event descriptions could
> offer even more reach than meetup.com alone.
>
>
> --
> Uche Ogbuji                                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
> Founding Partner, Zepheira                  http://zepheira.com
> Author, _Ndewo, Colorado_                 http://uche.ogbuji.net/ndewo/
> Founding editor, Kin Poetry Journal      http://wearekin.org
> http://copia.ogbuji.net    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
> http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Leeuwenburg
http://myownhat.blogspot.com/
"Don't believe everything you think"
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 00:16:46 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:16:46 +1000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 November 2015 at 14:04, Jacqueline Kazil <jackiekazil at gmail.com> wrote:
> What about trying to negotiate a deal w/ meetup for a bulk buy?

This community thread was actually born from a Board discussion on
that topic. It turns out meetup.com's approach to centralised group
sponsorship for non-profits is to offer Meetup Pro
(http://www.meetup.com/pro/) at the same per-group price they charge
individual community organisers (i.e. $15 USD per group per month),
but with the charges still going to the sponsoring organisation rather
than the group leads. (I don't know what the normal corporate rate is
for Pro, but it's presumably more than the community organiser rate)

As such, while it would save the PSF and group leaders some overhead
in processing the grant requests for Meetup fee reimbursements, it
likely wouldn't save any money overall. and could potentially cost
more, since:

* some Python user groups are currently on the cheaper Basic plan,
while the non-profit Pro rate matches the Unlimited plan
* prices for individual group organisers apparently vary by region
(although http://www.meetup.com/pricing/ will only show you local
pricing based on geolocation, so I'd be interested to hear what other
folks see on that page)
* there are many user groups where meetup.com fees are currently
covered by generous individuals, local businesses, or other
organisations, and those groups would now have an incentive to to seek
PSF fee sponsorship instead

In relation to that last point, going down this path would also make
the meetup.com proprietary lock-in problem even worse, since one of
the purposes of Meetup Pro is to serve as a communications channel
between the sponsoring organisation and the group organisers:
http://help.meetup.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2141922-meetup-pro

We'd either have to not use those features, or else end up in a
situation where Python meetups were actively *disadvantaged* in their
communications with the PSF by opting out of using meetup.com.

The clumsiness of the status quo certainly isn't ideal, but the fact
it leaves the choice of which meetup management platform to use in the
hands of local organisers is a really nice feature we'd like to
retain.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia

From pjf at maestropublishing.com  Thu Nov 19 00:25:46 2015
From: pjf at maestropublishing.com (Peter Farrell)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 23:25:46 -0600
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CADhgxgcmniOLO2XrY2HV28DNkUKx318k-P_KYoCsya+zwt-LGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADhgxgcmniOLO2XrY2HV28DNkUKx318k-P_KYoCsya+zwt-LGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+dVMxgm7a1SJUwuMsXBZjZzFt=Oaq-SuGrzKp5kwd-UKUcFPA@mail.gmail.com>

As an aside, we started using meetup in August of 2013. We had membership
of about 75 and meetings of 5-8 people at the time. Fast forward 26 months
and we've grown to just shy of 1,000 members and monthly meetings of 60-80
people. I'd say most people find us because of meetup.
On Nov 18, 2015 11:09 PM, "Tennessee Leeuwenburg" <tleeuwenburg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Actually, I'd counter that to some degree. I often use Meetup to search
> because they often have clearer information around how active the group is,
> when the last meeting was etc etc. It's often more helpful than a general
> wiki page, or articles "about" meetup groups, or do I search for user group
> or interest group. Probably, I do both. But I find Google doesn't always
> give me what I'm looking for, but an active meetup group does.
>
> On 19 November 2015 at 13:53, Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote:
>
>> Good topic. Good thread.
>>
>> I'm not so sure it's as hopeless as it may seem to avoid meetup.com. As
>> powerful and entrenched as meetup.com is, I would wager that a couple of
>> orders of magnitude more people check plain ol' Google for events than
>> check meetup.com.
>>
>> Google has recently added support for rich snippets for events, and does
>> some really useful things with those snippets without a user even having to
>> leave the search page.
>>
>> https://developers.google.com/structured-data/rich-snippets/events?hl=en
>>
>> Furthermore, where Google goes with structured Web metadata the others
>> (Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, Baidu...) tend to follow eventually.
>>
>> I'd suggest that some combination of a meetup.com alternative for
>> RSVP/registration hosting with a PSF-curated web page including
>> snippet-enriched ( http://schema.org ) Python event descriptions could
>> offer even more reach than meetup.com alone.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Uche Ogbuji                                       http://uche.ogbuji.net
>> Founding Partner, Zepheira                  http://zepheira.com
>> Author, _Ndewo, Colorado_                 http://uche.ogbuji.net/ndewo/
>> Founding editor, Kin Poetry Journal      http://wearekin.org
>> http://copia.ogbuji.net    http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji
>> http://twitter.com/uogbuji
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Tennessee Leeuwenburg
> http://myownhat.blogspot.com/
> "Don't believe everything you think"
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From pjf at maestropublishing.com  Wed Nov 18 21:35:31 2015
From: pjf at maestropublishing.com (Peter Farrell)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:35:31 -0600
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
Message-ID: <CA+dVMxjvHk5PVnDhJu-_8K10fuy-H14j8O7A0xOO0Rs0LDgLnA@mail.gmail.com>

Some costs could be saved as three meetups can be on one account. PyMNtos
has a dummy master account called Python Minnesota and shares the meetup
with Django Twin Cities and student Python group at the U of MN as well.
On Nov 18, 2015 3:40 PM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at python.org> wrote:

> Hello PSF Community,
>
> as many of you know, meeptup.com is pretty much the standard when
> it comes to organizing user group meetings - at least in the US,
> the UK and probably also some other countries.
>
> Now, meetup.com is also a rather expensive service to use and
> with the PSF funding the fees, I'd like to investigate, whether
> encouraging use of alternative services wouldn't result in a better
> use of the PSFs grant funds.
>
> These are some services I've found:
>
>  * http://www.eventbrite.com/ (free for free events)
>  * https://www.farornear.com/ (free)
>  * http://attending.io/ (free)
>  * https://www.xing.com/de/events (free for free events,
>    much like eventbrite, used often in Germany)
>
> For BarCamps:
>
>  * https://www.barcamptools.eu/ (again, mostly in Germany)
>
> Some questions:
>
>  * Do you know other such services ?
>  * What's your experience with these ?
>  * If you're running a group on meetup.com, would you be willing
>    to move to a different platform ?
>
> I think it would be good to collect this information on a python.org
> wiki page to better guide new user groups to meetup.com alternatives.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From mal at python.org  Thu Nov 19 08:33:04 2015
From: mal at python.org (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:33:04 +0100
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>

Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
below:

 * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
   to the meetings and supports growth better than other
   services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
   meetup over other services.

   Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
   services for the organization itself.

   While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
   UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
   Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
   stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
   is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
   the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).

   Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
   simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
   Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
   number is not large enough to get them interested.

   We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
   since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.

 * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
   more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
   discovery story as Meetup.

   Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
   be able to talk them into a special deal.

 * Other services mentioned/found:

   * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
   * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
   * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
     have Google find events
   * use the Python events calendar together with the map
     mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
     + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/

I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:

http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/

and especially liked this story from the thread:

"""
I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I see the gmail chat window with
30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been invited to a Google+ event?? ?No?
?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the principal gave out our wardrobe
instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??  ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
"""
(taken from
http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171)

Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.

I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
alternatives.

For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
(Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
is working just fine using plain old email.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
Director
Python Software Foundation
http://www.python.org/psf/
http://www.malemburg.com/

From graffatcolmingov at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 10:41:33 2015
From: graffatcolmingov at gmail.com (Ian Cordasco)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 09:41:33 -0600
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CADhgxgcmniOLO2XrY2HV28DNkUKx318k-P_KYoCsya+zwt-LGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADhgxgcmniOLO2XrY2HV28DNkUKx318k-P_KYoCsya+zwt-LGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN-Kwu2QDRGcRhA0W5gxbbALemKMR55MTeXRKXWiueB3_51QbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Tennessee Leeuwenburg
<tleeuwenburg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I'd counter that to some degree. I often use Meetup to search
> because they often have clearer information around how active the group is,
> when the last meeting was etc etc. It's often more helpful than a general
> wiki page, or articles "about" meetup groups, or do I search for user group
> or interest group. Probably, I do both. But I find Google doesn't always
> give me what I'm looking for, but an active meetup group does.

So, I run the Madison, WI Python meetup. We have a smaller community
here so our meetups tend to run 10-20 people a month but we have ~250
members on meetup.com (http://www.meetup.com/MadPUG/). Our only
administrative cost is meetup.com's fees (89.94 USD for 6 months
unlimited).

I've brought up the idea of transitioning from Meetup to using
Eventbrite for "ticketing" and the python.org mailing list that had
been created for the greater Madison area a few years ago (long before
I showed up and started organizing MadPUG). This garnered mixed
reactions because some people like to see who and how many people are
going to an event before RSVP'ing.

Personally, I'd love to be able to ditch Meetup. As an organizer there
are a ton of things I don't like about it. At this point, I pretty
much only use it as an organizer too (since I'm too busy to attend
other local meetups). Sadly, there doesn't seem to be anything that
works any better, at least not for this area.

From diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 15:32:14 2015
From: diana.joan.clarke at gmail.com (Diana Clarke)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:32:14 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] PSF Board Meeting Minutes - 2015-10-28
Message-ID: <CAEZAPrAyUchWTczW87bsGBuV3R4g0ARBBzwoQvNO9AvTQbYYgA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks:

The PSF board meeting minutes from October 28th, 2015 are now available online:

    https://www.python.org/psf/records/board/minutes/2015-10-28/

The following grants (https://www.python.org/psf/grants/) were
approved since the last meeting, totalling $13,315 USD.

  - Afro-Django Initiative
    Amount: $2,500 USD

  - SciPy India
    http://scipy.in/2015
    Mumbai, India
    December 14-16, 2015
    Amount: $2,000 USD

  - PyCaribbean
    http://pycaribbean.com/
    Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
    February 20-21, 2016
    Amount: $3,000 USD

  - Django Girls Kampala
    https://djangogirls.org/kampala/
    Kampala, Uganda
    November 21, 2015
    Amount: $415 USD

  - Django Girls Taipei
    https://djangogirls.org/taipei/
    Taipei, Taiwan
    December 12, 2015
    Amount: $900 USD

  - Django Girls Bratislava
    Bratislava, Slovakia
    March 13, 2016
    Amount: $800 USD

  - PythonBrasil 11
    http://pythonbrasil.github.io/pythonbrasil11-site/
    November 7-11, 2015
    Amount: $2,800 USD

  - Django Girls Taipei
    https://djangogirls.org/taipei/
    Taipei, Taiwan
    December 12, 2015
    Amount: $900 USD

For more updates from the PSF, please visit our blog and follow us on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/ThePSF
    https://pyfound.blogspot.com/

Here are a few of the more recent blog posts from the PSF:

    http://pycon.blogspot.ca/2015/11/tutorial-proposals-are-due-two-weeks.html
    http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2015/11/pycon-japan-2015-success.html
    http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2015/11/first-ever-pycaribbean-coming-this.html
    http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2015/11/register-now-for-pycon-2016.html
    http://pyfound.blogspot.ca/2015/10/django-girls-seoul-great-success.html

Cheers,

--diana

From doug.napoleone at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 14:20:24 2015
From: doug.napoleone at gmail.com (Douglas Napoleone)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 14:20:24 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
Message-ID: <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>

On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program (he
is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication, Slack
for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional events,
and competitions. The regionals are managed via robotevents.com (not under
club control.)

There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of these,
and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind it, has
overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to administrate. Even
for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult. Two years ago they
removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing (12 new signups on
avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle school club. Google is
plugged into meetup.com much better than it is for facebook, and not at all
for slack, and the school websites are garbage. Most parents and kids were
finding out about the program through google, which was finding out about
it from meetup.com.

I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.

I really wish there was better competition int his market.

    -Doug



On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:

> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
> below:
>
>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>    meetup over other services.
>
>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>    services for the organization itself.
>
>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>
>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>
>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>
>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>    discovery story as Meetup.
>
>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>
>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>
>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>      have Google find events
>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>
> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>
>
> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>
> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>
> """
> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I see
> the gmail chat window with
> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been invited
> to a Google+ event?? ?No?
> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the principal
> gave out our wardrobe
> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
> """
> (taken from
>
> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
> )
>
> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>
> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
> alternatives.
>
> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
> is working just fine using plain old email.
>
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> Python Software Foundation
> http://www.python.org/psf/
> http://www.malemburg.com/
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
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From don at sheu.com  Sat Nov 21 17:52:00 2015
From: don at sheu.com (Don Sheu)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 14:52:00 -0800
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better utilities
and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
effectiveness of Meetup.

Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution campaign
drive like NPR and the like.

That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when we
convene in Portland.
?

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:

> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program (he
> is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication, Slack
> for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
> parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional
> events, and competitions. The regionals are managed via robotevents.com
> (not under club control.)
>
> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind it,
> has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to
> administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult.
> Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing
> (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle
> school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much better than it is for
> facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school websites are garbage.
> Most parents and kids were finding out about the program through google,
> which was finding out about it from meetup.com.
>
> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>
> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>
>     -Doug
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>> below:
>>
>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>    meetup over other services.
>>
>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>    services for the organization itself.
>>
>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>
>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>
>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>
>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>
>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>
>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>
>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>      have Google find events
>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>
>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>
>>
>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>
>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>
>> """
>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I see
>> the gmail chat window with
>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been invited
>> to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
>> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
>> """
>> (taken from
>>
>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>> )
>>
>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>
>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>> alternatives.
>>
>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>
>> --
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> Director
>> Python Software Foundation
>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>


-- 
Don Sheu
312.880.9389
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
*http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
<http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*


*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may be
protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
Thank you.*
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From rottinrob at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 01:13:52 2015
From: rottinrob at gmail.com (RottinRob .)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 00:13:52 -0600
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>

Just a thought but what about a. Django based alternative that would
leverage the power of Python from the core. There should be well enough
creativity, talent, and knowledge collectively to really make something
truly incredible for Python specifically!
On Nov 21, 2015 4:52 PM, "Don Sheu" <don at sheu.com> wrote:

> Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better utilities
> and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
> effectiveness of Meetup.
>
> Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution campaign
> drive like NPR and the like.
>
> That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when we
> convene in Portland.
> ?
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
> doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program (he
>> is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication, Slack
>> for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
>> parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional
>> events, and competitions. The regionals are managed via robotevents.com
>> (not under club control.)
>>
>> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
>> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind it,
>> has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to
>> administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult.
>> Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing
>> (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle
>> school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much better than it is
>> for facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school websites are
>> garbage. Most parents and kids were finding out about the program through
>> google, which was finding out about it from meetup.com.
>>
>> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
>> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
>> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>>
>> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>>
>>     -Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>>> below:
>>>
>>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>>    meetup over other services.
>>>
>>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>>    services for the organization itself.
>>>
>>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>>
>>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>>
>>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>>
>>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>>
>>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>>
>>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>>
>>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>>      have Google find events
>>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>>
>>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>>
>>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>>
>>> """
>>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I see
>>> the gmail chat window with
>>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been invited
>>> to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
>>> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
>>> """
>>> (taken from
>>>
>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>>> )
>>>
>>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>>
>>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>>> alternatives.
>>>
>>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>> Director
>>> Python Software Foundation
>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Don Sheu
> 312.880.9389
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
> *http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
> <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*
>
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may
> be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
> laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
> it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
> to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
> Thank you.*
>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From alan at jydo.com  Sun Nov 22 02:03:48 2015
From: alan at jydo.com (Alan Vezina)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 23:03:48 -0800
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9ZdH_5fnNxCafSpNbciTVGwSuPyN0UYvO73HSvDUr7MH2J_g@mail.gmail.com>

The problem is people are finding our meetup and other Python meetups
because they're being recommended them by meetup.com. For example, a large
set of people who find our meetup are recommended our meetup because
they're part of the Seattle JS meetup. I also noticed a change in new
members when we briefly stopped using meetup for registrations:

   - August 2014 to March 2015 we used Meetup.com, consistently got emails
   saying 10-15 new members joined
   - Stopped using meetup for April to November, consistently received
   emails saying 2-5 new members joined
   - Went back to using Meetup in November, I am now consistently getting
   emails saying 10-15 new members joined

Not using meetup, even though it has worse tools for managing events really
makes an impact on new members. Having a Python hosted meetup page will
cater to only people who really care about Python. The nice thing about
meetup is it recommends our meetup to people who maybe wouldn't otherwise
be looking for it, and that has brought us many great members.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:13 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just a thought but what about a. Django based alternative that would
> leverage the power of Python from the core. There should be well enough
> creativity, talent, and knowledge collectively to really make something
> truly incredible for Python specifically!
> On Nov 21, 2015 4:52 PM, "Don Sheu" <don at sheu.com> wrote:
>
>> Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better utilities
>> and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
>> effectiveness of Meetup.
>>
>> Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution campaign
>> drive like NPR and the like.
>>
>> That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when we
>> convene in Portland.
>> ?
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
>> doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program
>>> (he is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication,
>>> Slack for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
>>> parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional
>>> events, and competitions. The regionals are managed via robotevents.com
>>> (not under club control.)
>>>
>>> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
>>> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind
>>> it, has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to
>>> administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult.
>>> Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing
>>> (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle
>>> school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much better than it is
>>> for facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school websites are
>>> garbage. Most parents and kids were finding out about the program through
>>> google, which was finding out about it from meetup.com.
>>>
>>> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
>>> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
>>> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>>>
>>> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>>>
>>>     -Doug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>>>> below:
>>>>
>>>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>>>    meetup over other services.
>>>>
>>>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>>>    services for the organization itself.
>>>>
>>>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>>>
>>>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>>>
>>>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>>>
>>>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>>>
>>>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>>>
>>>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>>>
>>>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>>>      have Google find events
>>>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>>>
>>>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>>>
>>>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>>>
>>>> """
>>>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I see
>>>> the gmail chat window with
>>>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been
>>>> invited to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>>>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>>>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>>>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
>>>> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>>>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>>>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>>>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
>>>> """
>>>> (taken from
>>>>
>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>>>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>>>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>>>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>>>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>>>
>>>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>>>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>>>> alternatives.
>>>>
>>>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>>>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>>>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>>>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>>>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>>>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>> Director
>>>> Python Software Foundation
>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don Sheu
>> 312.880.9389
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>> RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
>> *http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
>> <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*
>>
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message may
>> be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual property
>> laws of the United States and International agreements. If you believe that
>> it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply
>> to the sender that you have received the message in error. Then delete it.
>> Thank you.*
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From rottinrob at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 02:21:27 2015
From: rottinrob at gmail.com (RottinRob .)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 01:21:27 -0600
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAC9ZdH_5fnNxCafSpNbciTVGwSuPyN0UYvO73HSvDUr7MH2J_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC9ZdH_5fnNxCafSpNbciTVGwSuPyN0UYvO73HSvDUr7MH2J_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOW5E+kxDDTqGB+T3wazO-Ha08Fky1UEoS6FORb1ERKya0k_sQ@mail.gmail.com>

Please correct me if I'm wrong,  as Python is NOT my expertise, but is it
not possible to throw up a virtual enironment, add some frills (dev tools,
added bonus tools/software dependant on personal interest), base Django
Server, and other support technologies. Mix in command interface via some
console term or possibly GUI to some extent.
Mind you, I'm aware that takes work and man hours...but it could be Python
Based and Python Technology Driven, and can grow and be molded to need,
desire, and growth of language.
Should be fairly cheap in resources to implement, or at least reasonable.
On Nov 22, 2015 1:04 AM, "Alan Vezina" <alan at jydo.com> wrote:

> The problem is people are finding our meetup and other Python meetups
> because they're being recommended them by meetup.com. For example, a
> large set of people who find our meetup are recommended our meetup because
> they're part of the Seattle JS meetup. I also noticed a change in new
> members when we briefly stopped using meetup for registrations:
>
>    - August 2014 to March 2015 we used Meetup.com, consistently got
>    emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>    - Stopped using meetup for April to November, consistently received
>    emails saying 2-5 new members joined
>    - Went back to using Meetup in November, I am now consistently getting
>    emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>
> Not using meetup, even though it has worse tools for managing events
> really makes an impact on new members. Having a Python hosted meetup page
> will cater to only people who really care about Python. The nice thing
> about meetup is it recommends our meetup to people who maybe wouldn't
> otherwise be looking for it, and that has brought us many great members.
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:13 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just a thought but what about a. Django based alternative that would
>> leverage the power of Python from the core. There should be well enough
>> creativity, talent, and knowledge collectively to really make something
>> truly incredible for Python specifically!
>> On Nov 21, 2015 4:52 PM, "Don Sheu" <don at sheu.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better
>>> utilities and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
>>> effectiveness of Meetup.
>>>
>>> Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution campaign
>>> drive like NPR and the like.
>>>
>>> That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when we
>>> convene in Portland.
>>> ?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
>>> doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program
>>>> (he is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication,
>>>> Slack for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
>>>> parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional
>>>> events, and competitions. The regionals are managed via robotevents.com
>>>> (not under club control.)
>>>>
>>>> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
>>>> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind
>>>> it, has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to
>>>> administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult.
>>>> Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing
>>>> (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle
>>>> school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much better than it is
>>>> for facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school websites are
>>>> garbage. Most parents and kids were finding out about the program through
>>>> google, which was finding out about it from meetup.com.
>>>>
>>>> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
>>>> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
>>>> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>>>>
>>>> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>>>>
>>>>     -Doug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>>>>> below:
>>>>>
>>>>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>>>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>>>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>>>>    meetup over other services.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>>>>    services for the organization itself.
>>>>>
>>>>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>>>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>>>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>>>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>>>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>>>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>>>>
>>>>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>>>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>>>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>>>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>>>>
>>>>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>>>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>>>>
>>>>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>>>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>>>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>>>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>>>>
>>>>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>>>>
>>>>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>>>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>>>>      have Google find events
>>>>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>>>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>>>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>>>>
>>>>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>>>>
>>>>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>>>>
>>>>> """
>>>>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I
>>>>> see the gmail chat window with
>>>>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been
>>>>> invited to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>>>>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>>>>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>>>>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
>>>>> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>>>>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>>>>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>>>>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
>>>>> """
>>>>> (taken from
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>>>>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>>>>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>>>>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>>>>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>>>>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>>>>> alternatives.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>>>>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>>>>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>>>>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>>>>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>>>>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Python Software Foundation
>>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Don Sheu
>>> 312.880.9389
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>> RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
>>> *http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
>>> <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*
>>>
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message
>>> may be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual
>>> property laws of the United States and International agreements. If you
>>> believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please
>>> immediately reply to the sender that you have received the message in
>>> error. Then delete it. Thank you.*
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PSF-Community mailing list
>> PSF-Community at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>
>>
>
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From alan at jydo.com  Sun Nov 22 03:11:16 2015
From: alan at jydo.com (Alan Vezina)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 00:11:16 -0800
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAOW5E+kxDDTqGB+T3wazO-Ha08Fky1UEoS6FORb1ERKya0k_sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC9ZdH_5fnNxCafSpNbciTVGwSuPyN0UYvO73HSvDUr7MH2J_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+kxDDTqGB+T3wazO-Ha08Fky1UEoS6FORb1ERKya0k_sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9ZdH-k29tcETtKYLzVwb1Mbnhn+LxyYXuwyMh-V-0rPQMJsg@mail.gmail.com>

You are woefully underestimating the amount of work it would take to create
a site like meetup. You are also missing the point: Meetup recommends
people who are part of related, but different meetups to join our meetup.
This drives a good deal of people who weren't looking for our meetup to
find it, show up, and be contributing members. There is a HUGE amount of
value in the large user base that Meetup.com has.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:21 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com> wrote:

> Please correct me if I'm wrong,  as Python is NOT my expertise, but is it
> not possible to throw up a virtual enironment, add some frills (dev tools,
> added bonus tools/software dependant on personal interest), base Django
> Server, and other support technologies. Mix in command interface via some
> console term or possibly GUI to some extent.
> Mind you, I'm aware that takes work and man hours...but it could be Python
> Based and Python Technology Driven, and can grow and be molded to need,
> desire, and growth of language.
> Should be fairly cheap in resources to implement, or at least reasonable.
> On Nov 22, 2015 1:04 AM, "Alan Vezina" <alan at jydo.com> wrote:
>
>> The problem is people are finding our meetup and other Python meetups
>> because they're being recommended them by meetup.com. For example, a
>> large set of people who find our meetup are recommended our meetup because
>> they're part of the Seattle JS meetup. I also noticed a change in new
>> members when we briefly stopped using meetup for registrations:
>>
>>    - August 2014 to March 2015 we used Meetup.com, consistently got
>>    emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>>    - Stopped using meetup for April to November, consistently received
>>    emails saying 2-5 new members joined
>>    - Went back to using Meetup in November, I am now consistently
>>    getting emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>>
>> Not using meetup, even though it has worse tools for managing events
>> really makes an impact on new members. Having a Python hosted meetup page
>> will cater to only people who really care about Python. The nice thing
>> about meetup is it recommends our meetup to people who maybe wouldn't
>> otherwise be looking for it, and that has brought us many great members.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:13 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just a thought but what about a. Django based alternative that would
>>> leverage the power of Python from the core. There should be well enough
>>> creativity, talent, and knowledge collectively to really make something
>>> truly incredible for Python specifically!
>>> On Nov 21, 2015 4:52 PM, "Don Sheu" <don at sheu.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better
>>>> utilities and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
>>>> effectiveness of Meetup.
>>>>
>>>> Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution
>>>> campaign drive like NPR and the like.
>>>>
>>>> That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when
>>>> we convene in Portland.
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
>>>> doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program
>>>>> (he is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication,
>>>>> Slack for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
>>>>> parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional
>>>>> events, and competitions. The regionals are managed via
>>>>> robotevents.com (not under club control.)
>>>>>
>>>>> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
>>>>> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind
>>>>> it, has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to
>>>>> administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult.
>>>>> Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing
>>>>> (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle
>>>>> school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much better than it is
>>>>> for facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school websites are
>>>>> garbage. Most parents and kids were finding out about the program through
>>>>> google, which was finding out about it from meetup.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
>>>>> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
>>>>> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>>>>>
>>>>>     -Doug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>>>>>> below:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>>>>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>>>>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>>>>>    meetup over other services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>>>>>    services for the organization itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>>>>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>>>>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>>>>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>>>>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>>>>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>>>>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>>>>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>>>>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>>>>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>>>>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>>>>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>>>>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>>>>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>>>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>>>>>      have Google find events
>>>>>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>>>>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>>>>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> """
>>>>>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I
>>>>>> see the gmail chat window with
>>>>>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been
>>>>>> invited to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>>>>>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>>>>>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>>>>>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
>>>>>> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>>>>>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>>>>>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>>>>>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
>>>>>> """
>>>>>> (taken from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>>>>>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>>>>>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>>>>>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>>>>>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>>>>>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>>>>>> alternatives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>>>>>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>>>>>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>>>>>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>>>>>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>>>>>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>>>> Director
>>>>>> Python Software Foundation
>>>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>>>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Don Sheu
>>>> 312.880.9389
>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>
>>>> RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
>>>> *http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
>>>> <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message
>>>> may be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual
>>>> property laws of the United States and International agreements. If you
>>>> believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please
>>>> immediately reply to the sender that you have received the message in
>>>> error. Then delete it. Thank you.*
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>
>>>
>>
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From rottinrob at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 07:15:29 2015
From: rottinrob at gmail.com (RottinRob .)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 06:15:29 -0600
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAC9ZdH-k29tcETtKYLzVwb1Mbnhn+LxyYXuwyMh-V-0rPQMJsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC9ZdH_5fnNxCafSpNbciTVGwSuPyN0UYvO73HSvDUr7MH2J_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+kxDDTqGB+T3wazO-Ha08Fky1UEoS6FORb1ERKya0k_sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC9ZdH-k29tcETtKYLzVwb1Mbnhn+LxyYXuwyMh-V-0rPQMJsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOW5E+kyG9-sxOrSGauHbXpNSupO-gFssZHRfs23vJG8fMAL4g@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I could agree I'm probably missing the point on the MeetUp aspect as I
never been accused of being social! However, I do have full appreciation of
the amount of effort, work, and code that goes into what I'm suggesting.
Grossly simplified...absolutly!
On Nov 22, 2015 2:11 AM, "Alan Vezina" <alan at jydo.com> wrote:

> You are woefully underestimating the amount of work it would take to
> create a site like meetup. You are also missing the point: Meetup
> recommends people who are part of related, but different meetups to join
> our meetup. This drives a good deal of people who weren't looking for our
> meetup to find it, show up, and be contributing members. There is a HUGE
> amount of value in the large user base that Meetup.com has.
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:21 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong,  as Python is NOT my expertise, but is it
>> not possible to throw up a virtual enironment, add some frills (dev tools,
>> added bonus tools/software dependant on personal interest), base Django
>> Server, and other support technologies. Mix in command interface via some
>> console term or possibly GUI to some extent.
>> Mind you, I'm aware that takes work and man hours...but it could be
>> Python Based and Python Technology Driven, and can grow and be molded to
>> need, desire, and growth of language.
>> Should be fairly cheap in resources to implement, or at least reasonable.
>> On Nov 22, 2015 1:04 AM, "Alan Vezina" <alan at jydo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is people are finding our meetup and other Python meetups
>>> because they're being recommended them by meetup.com. For example, a
>>> large set of people who find our meetup are recommended our meetup because
>>> they're part of the Seattle JS meetup. I also noticed a change in new
>>> members when we briefly stopped using meetup for registrations:
>>>
>>>    - August 2014 to March 2015 we used Meetup.com, consistently got
>>>    emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>>>    - Stopped using meetup for April to November, consistently received
>>>    emails saying 2-5 new members joined
>>>    - Went back to using Meetup in November, I am now consistently
>>>    getting emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>>>
>>> Not using meetup, even though it has worse tools for managing events
>>> really makes an impact on new members. Having a Python hosted meetup page
>>> will cater to only people who really care about Python. The nice thing
>>> about meetup is it recommends our meetup to people who maybe wouldn't
>>> otherwise be looking for it, and that has brought us many great members.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:13 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just a thought but what about a. Django based alternative that would
>>>> leverage the power of Python from the core. There should be well enough
>>>> creativity, talent, and knowledge collectively to really make something
>>>> truly incredible for Python specifically!
>>>> On Nov 21, 2015 4:52 PM, "Don Sheu" <don at sheu.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better
>>>>> utilities and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
>>>>> effectiveness of Meetup.
>>>>>
>>>>> Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution
>>>>> campaign drive like NPR and the like.
>>>>>
>>>>> That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when
>>>>> we convene in Portland.
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
>>>>> doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics program
>>>>>> (he is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social communication,
>>>>>> Slack for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for communicating with
>>>>>> parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the team meetups, regional
>>>>>> events, and competitions. The regionals are managed via
>>>>>> robotevents.com (not under club control.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
>>>>>> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost behind
>>>>>> it, has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest pain to
>>>>>> administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be difficult.
>>>>>> Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to almost nothing
>>>>>> (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year). For a middle
>>>>>> school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much better than it
>>>>>> is for facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school websites are
>>>>>> garbage. Most parents and kids were finding out about the program through
>>>>>> google, which was finding out about it from meetup.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
>>>>>> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
>>>>>> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     -Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>>>>>>> below:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>>>>>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>>>>>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>>>>>>    meetup over other services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>>>>>>    services for the organization itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>>>>>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>>>>>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>>>>>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>>>>>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>>>>>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>>>>>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>>>>>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>>>>>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>>>>>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>>>>>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>>>>>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>>>>>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>>>>>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>>>>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>>>>>>      have Google find events
>>>>>>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>>>>>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>>>>>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> """
>>>>>>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I
>>>>>>> see the gmail chat window with
>>>>>>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been
>>>>>>> invited to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>>>>>>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>>>>>>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>>>>>>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook much??
>>>>>>> ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>>>>>>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>>>>>>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>>>>>>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday nights??
>>>>>>> """
>>>>>>> (taken from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>>>>>>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>>>>>>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>>>>>>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>>>>>>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>>>>>>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>>>>>>> alternatives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>>>>>>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>>>>>>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>>>>>>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>>>>>>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>>>>>>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>> Python Software Foundation
>>>>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>>>>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Don Sheu
>>>>> 312.880.9389
>>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>>
>>>>> RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
>>>>> *http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
>>>>> <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message
>>>>> may be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual
>>>>> property laws of the United States and International agreements. If you
>>>>> believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please
>>>>> immediately reply to the sender that you have received the message in
>>>>> error. Then delete it. Thank you.*
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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From maneeshasane at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 12:15:27 2015
From: maneeshasane at gmail.com (maneesha sane)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 12:15:27 -0500
Subject: [PSF-Community] Meetup.com & collecting funds through PSF
Message-ID: <CALBzp3WdBa3G+OUY5tqGeR6VJGv_WZDQHsQ-QPjvV=Z_ixHr1w@mail.gmail.com>

Spurring from the other discussion about the advatages/disadvantages of
using meetup - I have another question.  The Philadelphia Python Users
Group uses meetup for its events (http://www.meetup.com/phillypug/).

We also have fiscal sponsorship through PSF so we can collect
fees/donations (
https://psfmember.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=11).

Sometimes we have events with suggested donations, registration fees, etc.
I'd like to have the page to collect funds be directly linked to the meetup
registration page.   So if someone registers on meetup, they pay, and it
shows up as paid on meetup.  Has anyone set up any thing like this?  How
did it work?

Maneesha Sane
PhillyPUG







On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 7:15 AM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I could agree I'm probably missing the point on the MeetUp aspect as
> I never been accused of being social! However, I do have full appreciation
> of the amount of effort, work, and code that goes into what I'm suggesting.
> Grossly simplified...absolutly!
> On Nov 22, 2015 2:11 AM, "Alan Vezina" <alan at jydo.com> wrote:
>
>> You are woefully underestimating the amount of work it would take to
>> create a site like meetup. You are also missing the point: Meetup
>> recommends people who are part of related, but different meetups to join
>> our meetup. This drives a good deal of people who weren't looking for our
>> meetup to find it, show up, and be contributing members. There is a HUGE
>> amount of value in the large user base that Meetup.com has.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:21 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please correct me if I'm wrong,  as Python is NOT my expertise, but is
>>> it not possible to throw up a virtual enironment, add some frills (dev
>>> tools, added bonus tools/software dependant on personal interest), base
>>> Django Server, and other support technologies. Mix in command interface via
>>> some console term or possibly GUI to some extent.
>>> Mind you, I'm aware that takes work and man hours...but it could be
>>> Python Based and Python Technology Driven, and can grow and be molded to
>>> need, desire, and growth of language.
>>> Should be fairly cheap in resources to implement, or at least reasonable.
>>> On Nov 22, 2015 1:04 AM, "Alan Vezina" <alan at jydo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The problem is people are finding our meetup and other Python meetups
>>>> because they're being recommended them by meetup.com. For example, a
>>>> large set of people who find our meetup are recommended our meetup because
>>>> they're part of the Seattle JS meetup. I also noticed a change in new
>>>> members when we briefly stopped using meetup for registrations:
>>>>
>>>>    - August 2014 to March 2015 we used Meetup.com, consistently got
>>>>    emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>>>>    - Stopped using meetup for April to November, consistently received
>>>>    emails saying 2-5 new members joined
>>>>    - Went back to using Meetup in November, I am now consistently
>>>>    getting emails saying 10-15 new members joined
>>>>
>>>> Not using meetup, even though it has worse tools for managing events
>>>> really makes an impact on new members. Having a Python hosted meetup page
>>>> will cater to only people who really care about Python. The nice thing
>>>> about meetup is it recommends our meetup to people who maybe wouldn't
>>>> otherwise be looking for it, and that has brought us many great members.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:13 PM, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just a thought but what about a. Django based alternative that would
>>>>> leverage the power of Python from the core. There should be well enough
>>>>> creativity, talent, and knowledge collectively to really make something
>>>>> truly incredible for Python specifically!
>>>>> On Nov 21, 2015 4:52 PM, "Don Sheu" <don at sheu.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Would be great to have a tool that incorporated the much better
>>>>>> utilities and mobile apps of Eventbrite with the discovery and social graph
>>>>>> effectiveness of Meetup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Revenue could be derived from offering a voluntary contribution
>>>>>> campaign drive like NPR and the like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That'd be a great startup to feature at PyCon Startup Row in May when
>>>>>> we convene in Portland.
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Douglas Napoleone <
>>>>>> doug.napoleone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the 'kids these days' part, my Son's after school robotics
>>>>>>> program (he is 11) uses snapchat (set up by the kids) for social
>>>>>>> communication, Slack for team communication/collaboration, Facebook for
>>>>>>> communicating with parents, and ole meetup.com for managing the
>>>>>>> team meetups, regional events, and competitions. The regionals are managed
>>>>>>> via robotevents.com (not under club control.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There has been repeated discussion on getting rid of at least one of
>>>>>>> these, and meetup.com in particular as that one has real cost
>>>>>>> behind it, has overlap with robotevents.com, and is the biggest
>>>>>>> pain to administrate. Even for a semi-private group, this proved to be
>>>>>>> difficult. Two years ago they removed the group, and signup dropped to
>>>>>>> almost nothing (12 new signups on avg per year down to 3 for that year).
>>>>>>> For a middle school club. Google is plugged into meetup.com much
>>>>>>> better than it is for facebook, and not at all for slack, and the school
>>>>>>> websites are garbage. Most parents and kids were finding out about the
>>>>>>> program through google, which was finding out about it from
>>>>>>> meetup.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have signed on to help out with some of the tech stuff to automate
>>>>>>> things. Going to 5 different interfaces (slack, school website, facebook,
>>>>>>> meetup.com, mailchimp) just to update a schedule is madness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really wish there was better competition int his market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     -Doug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at python.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you for all your feedback. I've collected the results so far
>>>>>>>> below:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  * Meetup has great discovery story, it brings in more people
>>>>>>>>    to the meetings and supports growth better than other
>>>>>>>>    services - this is perceived as the main benefit of
>>>>>>>>    meetup over other services.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Some groups only use meetup for announcements and other
>>>>>>>>    services for the organization itself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    While Meetup does have a big following in at least US,
>>>>>>>>    UK, Canada, Belgium, it's not that popular in other countries.
>>>>>>>>    Examples: Czech Republic, Germany (though it's getting
>>>>>>>>    stronger). This is probably also a reason why Meetup
>>>>>>>>    is cheaper in those countries than others (e.g. in Germany
>>>>>>>>    the unlimited plan costs USD 4.99 per month).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Meetup is not willing to give us special rates or
>>>>>>>>    simplified setups (other than their standard setups).
>>>>>>>>    Even though there are plenty Python groups, the total
>>>>>>>>    number is not large enough to get them interested.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    We could save some money by using "master" accounts,
>>>>>>>>    since each Meetup account can host up to three meetings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  * Eventbrite is good for RSVPs and check-ins, it also looks
>>>>>>>>    more professional than Meetup, but doesn't have such a good
>>>>>>>>    discovery story as Meetup.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Since Eventbrite is very much a Python company, we might
>>>>>>>>    be able to talk them into a special deal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  * Other services mentioned/found:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    * https://ti.to/ (free for free events, used by PyCon UK)
>>>>>>>>    * https://nvite.com/ (free for free events)
>>>>>>>>    * use Google rich snippets (structured meta data) to
>>>>>>>>      have Google find events
>>>>>>>>    * use the Python events calendar together with the map
>>>>>>>>      mashup: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEventsCalendar
>>>>>>>>      + http://lmorillas.github.io/python_events/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also found an interesting thread on a Meetup forum:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and especially liked this story from the thread:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> """
>>>>>>>> I walk into the family room, and my teenager is on the lap top.   I
>>>>>>>> see the gmail chat window with
>>>>>>>> 30 ?friends? at the left hand margin.  I ask ?Have you ever been
>>>>>>>> invited to a Google+ event?? ?No?
>>>>>>>> ?Have you ever been invited to a Facebook event?? ?Yes, once the
>>>>>>>> principal gave out our wardrobe
>>>>>>>> instructions for our homecoming game.?  ?Do you use Facebook
>>>>>>>> much??  ?Hardly, ugly site, isn?t that
>>>>>>>> for old people?? I prefer SnapChat and Instagram?  ?Argggggg.  Just
>>>>>>>> pics!?   ?Have you ever heard of
>>>>>>>> Meetup? ?Not really Dad, is that the stuff you do on Tuesday
>>>>>>>> nights??
>>>>>>>> """
>>>>>>>> (taken from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.discussmeetup.com/forum/general-questions-how-tos-tips-tricks/i-want-to-close-my-group-what-are-good-free-alternative-platforms-to-meetup/msg4171/?PHPSESSID=8a885701384e741ec4dc394e49e3bae7#msg4171
>>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given such experience, it may well be that we "older" people
>>>>>>>> only perceive Meetup as being the holy grail when it comes
>>>>>>>> to organizing user group events, while the younger folks
>>>>>>>> don't even get to see these events, unless they are also available
>>>>>>>> on FB, G+, Instagram, etc. Perhaps something to consider.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess in the short term, we're better off encouraging sharing
>>>>>>>> Meetup accounts to lower costs and continue to look for
>>>>>>>> alternatives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For a meeting I'm running with Charlie Clark in D?sseldorf
>>>>>>>> (Python Meeting D?sseldorf), we've so far tried to stay away
>>>>>>>> from Meetup and invested a lot of time into all the other
>>>>>>>> channels you have to serve. For us, the marketing aspect
>>>>>>>> would be the only reason to try it, since the organization
>>>>>>>> is working just fine using plain old email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>> Python Software Foundation
>>>>>>>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>>>>>>> http://www.malemburg.com/
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Don Sheu
>>>>>> 312.880.9389
>>>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RSVP for my Python user group, meeting 12/9 at Redfin
>>>>>> *http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/
>>>>>> <http://www.meetup.com/PSPPython/events/226728440/>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE*: *The information contained in this message
>>>>>> may be protected trade secrets or protected by applicable intellectual
>>>>>> property laws of the United States and International agreements. If you
>>>>>> believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. Please
>>>>>> immediately reply to the sender that you have received the message in
>>>>>> error. Then delete it. Thank you.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PSF-Community mailing list
>>>>> PSF-Community at python.org
>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> PSF-Community mailing list
> PSF-Community at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
>
>
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 21:07:37 2015
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:07:37 +1000
Subject: [PSF-Community] Looking for alternatives to meetup.com
In-Reply-To: <CAOW5E+kyG9-sxOrSGauHbXpNSupO-gFssZHRfs23vJG8fMAL4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <564CEED7.9040102@python.org>
 <201511182216.tAIMGQ0V028417@fido.openend.se>
 <CAPJCua3mE-1Lj+K-Z3zGF85deFXQVv120VjqH2QUt=4m0t4DMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKD0ODwQr_a8PFMhDRNGR_s5j_Zsp5anFEaduPQOrKe_O59FFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADiSq7fJ8HsBVbV2k8Vi+WKBJaKNZyRbVaKpt1nuzz6LaPZhtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <564DCF90.4010105@python.org>
 <CADPc4peTcGEdo=2N-GiRduqG_EHozxrmsMmLO-7T35zXgKE1NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAM-7wP+f2DPdDAyDQuZC113f4Fq-KiinQYyfhAB6dens2yZZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+miVPz=o-q7LR3QrF=tMaFa4OcgvAxpeYtw2jbd01ugzg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC9ZdH_5fnNxCafSpNbciTVGwSuPyN0UYvO73HSvDUr7MH2J_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+kxDDTqGB+T3wazO-Ha08Fky1UEoS6FORb1ERKya0k_sQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC9ZdH-k29tcETtKYLzVwb1Mbnhn+LxyYXuwyMh-V-0rPQMJsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOW5E+kyG9-sxOrSGauHbXpNSupO-gFssZHRfs23vJG8fMAL4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADiSq7dse3Dn7Zz-UEuizLTmKH50QQ5D0KCh6FOqXN+iYHjxqg@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 November 2015 at 22:15, RottinRob . <rottinrob at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I could agree I'm probably missing the point on the MeetUp aspect as
> I never been accused of being social! However, I do have full appreciation
> of the amount of effort, work, and code that goes into what I'm suggesting.
> Grossly simplified...absolutly!
>
TL;DR: The network effects of lock-in based platform designs are hard to
overcome, but there are glimmers of hope in the increasing technical
sophistication of local governments.

Long version:

A useful piece of background info for any work in the social networking
space is Metcalfe's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law

This was originally used in the context of phone and fax networks, and is
summarised as "the value of the network increases with the square of the
number of the devices connected to it". A phone network with only one
device connected isn't a network, while one with 100 devices connected is
on the order of *100* times more valuable to its collective userbase than
one with only 10 devices (since its 10 times more valuable for each
participant, and there are 10 times as many participants). It's debatable
whether the simple "value is proportional to the square of the number of
nodes" is accurate, but the general principle of a non-linear relationship
between the number of participants and the aggregate value of the network
holds.

It's those network effects which are then responsible for most of the
barriers to entry for new services in connecting people to each other.

Returning to the specific case of community user groups, at the individual
meetup level (if the meetup is actively trying to grow), that means the
choice of organisational tools boils down to 3 major considerations:

* usability for the meetup organisers
* lowering barriers to entry for new attendees
* improving discoverability for potential attendees in the area

Meetup.com arguably represents the state of the art in relation to the last
two considerations (at least in countries where English is the primary
spoken language), which then creates a self-reinforcing cycle, where groups
want to be on Meetup to benefit from the last two aspects, and hence the
first aspect becomes "Are we going to use anything else *in addition to*
meetup.com?", rather than being able to readily opt out of meetup.com
entirely.

This means that even a more comprehensive solution that brought in a more
capable ticketing system like Eventbrite's, an improved social media
management platform like Hootsuite, and improved calendar integration with
things like Facebook Events, Google Calendar and Office 365, would still
have to figure out how they were going to overcome meetup.com's network
effects.

That's not to say it couldn't be done, though. If I was going to try to
build something like that, I'd start by talking to local governments,
especially council libraries, find out what systems they were currently
using to collect and communicate event data, and see what might be involved
in enabling them to consume meetup.com data feeds. That would create the
opportunity to leverage the growing influence of "open government" groups
by working directly with folks for whom ensuring the vibrancy of the local
community *is* their day job (or at least part of it). Get these kinds of
"HyperLocal" information aggregation platform widely adopted to the point
where a lot of folks are getting their local community meetup information
from sites operated by their local government rather than directly from
commercial sites, and you've decoupled the data entry network of group
organisers from the data consumption network of group attendees, breaking
the network lock-in effect, and opening up the group organisation tools
market to increased competition again.

A bit of hunting on Google shows Portland's Calagator as a basic example of
this idea: http://calagator.org/

That's a fairly basic calendar feed aggregator, though, clearly designed
for an already technical audience:
https://github.com/calagator/calagator/wiki/Supported-Import-Formats

A more well developed version of the idea targeting a more general audience
would be Brisbane's community events calendar:
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/whats-on/type

And specifically for a technical audience, there's the Digital Brisbane
events calendar: http://digitalbrisbane.com.au/Events

However, neither of the latter two examples is open source as far as I
know, and neither republishes meetup.com data feeds.

This is the kind of poking around that suggest that there's a *huge* amount
of untapped potential in more effective collaboration between the open
source community and local governments, even though actively pursuing that
isn't going to appeal to everyone as a possible career path.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncoghlan at gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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From betsy at python.org  Mon Nov 30 13:35:36 2015
From: betsy at python.org (Betsy Waliszewski)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:35:36 -0800
Subject: [PSF-Community] Sponsored tickets to PyCaribbean - February 20 - 21,
 2016 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
Message-ID: <CAKMnukoiAO_jAP2Z+KA6ts+xGMysGVdAReHr0jGwZgjn2y4B4g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

The PSF has access to 4 free tickets to PyCaribbean. Due to the
preparations needed to plan a trip to the Caribbean, they thought it would
be a good idea to give them to the community early.

The free tickets can be redeemed by going to the url
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pycaribbean-tickets-19120486891?discount=THEPSF or
writing down "THEPSF" as the coupon name.

This will be on a "first-come, first-served" basis, so they will go to
the *first
4 people to claim the tickets.*

Cheers,

Betsy

-- 
Betsy Waliszewski
Python Software Foundation
Event Coordinator / Administrator
@betswaliszewski
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