From jek at discorporate.us  Mon Jan 11 18:59:15 2010
From: jek at discorporate.us (jason kirtland)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:59:15 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting TOMORROW 6:30pm: Geographic Information in Python
Message-ID: <28dcaea51001110959l480a63bdo56664f0feca7efb8@mail.gmail.com>

Portland Pythonistas,

Our first meeting of 2010 is nearly upon us and it's going to be a big
one!  The theme for January is: Geographic Information.  In addition
to 3 (count 'em: 3!) great feature presentations, there will be a
giveaway of GIS and Python books.  And, after, we'll adjourn to the
pub for beer.  (Map to be provided.)

First up we'll have Michel's Module of the Month, a lightning talk on
a randomly chosen stdlib module by an unprepared volunteer.

Then, Michel Pelletier will introduce Geohash, a clever text encoding
of latitude and longitude information that is very useful for
non-traditional databases, among other things.  Geohashing was cooked
up by Gustavo Niemeyer of Mocker and Dateutil fame.

Webb Sprauge will talk about how to incorporate geographic data into
relational databases using PostGIS and PostgreSQL. ?He will cover
making a connection with psycopg2, modeling using geographic data
types, and associating geographic data with non-geographic attributes.

Building on Webb's talk, Tim Welch will introduce the geographic
capabilities of the Django Framework (aka GeoDjango) which utilizes
PostGIS and psycopg2. ?He'll briefly cover geometric data types,
spatial operators, the Django geographic admin and creating
geo-enabled web services. ?In addition to examples, at least one
application will also be demoed.

Tuesday January 12th 2010
6:30PM at Webtrends
851 SW 6th Ave.
Map to Webtrends, etc. at http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/

I hope to see everyone there!

Cheers,
Jason

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Mon Jan 11 19:18:55 2010
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:18:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Meeting TOMORROW 6:30pm: Geographic Information in
 Python
In-Reply-To: <28dcaea51001110959l480a63bdo56664f0feca7efb8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28dcaea51001110959l480a63bdo56664f0feca7efb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001111012030.19146@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, jason kirtland wrote:

> The theme for January is: Geographic Information.

   Ah, too bad I cannot make it.

> Webb Sprauge will talk about how to incorporate geographic data into
> relational databases using PostGIS and PostgreSQL. He will cover making a
> connection with psycopg2, modeling using geographic data types, and
> associating geographic data with non-geographic attributes.

   As an aside, one aspect of using a dbms (and both PostGIS and postgres are
excellent products) is that they are not topologically correct. That is, a
common boundary between two polygons is stored twice, once for each polygon,
rather than as a single arc with identification for the areas to each side.

   Folks who are interested in spatial analyses more than just computerized
cartography ought to take a look at GRASS (Geographic Resources Analysis
Support System) <http://grass.osgeo.org/>. The GUI is now written in Python
using wxPython and modules can be written in Python or C.

Rich

From jek at discorporate.us  Mon Jan 11 19:44:04 2010
From: jek at discorporate.us (jason kirtland)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:44:04 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting TOMORROW 6:30pm: Geographic Information in
	Python
In-Reply-To: <28dcaea51001110959l480a63bdo56664f0feca7efb8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28dcaea51001110959l480a63bdo56664f0feca7efb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28dcaea51001111044x49fdc9b5q238c619d7a038323@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:59 AM, jason kirtland <jek at discorporate.us> wrote:
>
> Webb Sprauge will talk about how to incorporate geographic data into
> relational databases using PostGIS and PostgreSQL. ?He will cover
> making a connection with psycopg2, modeling using geographic data
> types, and associating geographic data with non-geographic attributes.

Oops, that'd be Webb *Sprague*.  Sorry about the typo Webb!

From tim.j.welch at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 17:02:58 2010
From: tim.j.welch at gmail.com (Tim Welch)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:02:58 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting TOMORROW 6:30pm: Geographic Information in
	Python
In-Reply-To: <28dcaea51001111044x49fdc9b5q238c619d7a038323@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28dcaea51001110959l480a63bdo56664f0feca7efb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<28dcaea51001111044x49fdc9b5q238c619d7a038323@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3996251a1001130802x41c157ado8b5ddd2dcc6544cf@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks, thanks for coming out last night to listen to us.  My
presentation slides and source code are available through my blog
post.

http://tdubya.net/2010/01/13/geodjango-and-friends/

Hope to see you around, Tim

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:44 AM, jason kirtland <jek at discorporate.us> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:59 AM, jason kirtland <jek at discorporate.us> wrote:
>>
>> Webb Sprauge will talk about how to incorporate geographic data into
>> relational databases using PostGIS and PostgreSQL. ?He will cover
>> making a connection with psycopg2, modeling using geographic data
>> types, and associating geographic data with non-geographic attributes.
>
> Oops, that'd be Webb *Sprague*. ?Sorry about the typo Webb!
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>

From freyley at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 18:49:22 2010
From: freyley at gmail.com (Jeff Schwaber)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:49:22 -0800
Subject: [portland] Agile Open Northwest
Message-ID: <8db4a1911001130949w17f5c090x74efe56b444eaef1@mail.gmail.com>

For those interested in agile, here's the details and the email sent to the
xpportland list, which you might want to join. =)


   - *What:* An Open Space <openspace.php> event discussing agile practices
   and techniques.
   - *Where:* Seattle Center <location.php>, in several of the Northwest
   Rooms.
   - *When:* February 9 and 10, 2010
   - *Who:* Anyone with some degree of experience in agile methods.
   Registration limited to 125 people.
   - *Cost:* $125 for the two day event, including continental breakfast and
   box lunch each day.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kimberly Wallmark <kim_yahoo at arlim.org>
Date: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 12:06 PM
Subject: [xpportland] Other events of interest
To: xpportland at yahoogroups.com




Agile Open Northwest is a small local conference in February. It's a
great way to meet local practitioners and have focused discussions of
interesting issues. It's also a good example of successful self-
organization -- it's a completely Open Space conference, with no pre-
scheduling of sessions. It alternates between Portland and Seattle,
and this is Seattle's year. Registration is still open:
http://www.agileopennorthwest.com/2010/index.php

Agile 2010 ("big Agile") is in Tennessee in August. This is the
biggest agile software development conference around. It attracts an
international audience with a huge range of viewpoints and
experience. Submissions and early registration are both open:
http://www.agile2010.org/

--Kim
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From igal at pragmaticraft.com  Wed Jan 13 18:57:57 2010
From: igal at pragmaticraft.com (Igal Koshevoy)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:57:57 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting notes: January 12, 2009 -- Geohash, PostGIS,
	GeoDjango
Message-ID: <4B4E09A5.7030401@pragmaticraft.com>

Please post any corrections or additions.

PRESENTATIONS

"The __future__ module" by Jason Kirtland -- @cheeseinspector,
http://discorporate.us/jek/

    * The "__future__" module lets you use features of Python
      interpreters from within some older Python interpreters.
    * Future features include: using the Python 2.6 "with" statement in
      Python 2.5, making "print" a function in Python 2.6 like in 3.0, etc.
    * Full set of future features and their documentation:
      http://docs.python.org/library/__future__.html


"Geohash" by Michel Pelletier -- http://idealist.org/

    * Geohash is an algorithm for producing a short code ("hash") that
      refers to a geographical location. The longer the hash, the more
      precise the latitude/longitude encoded in it. A unique property of
      the Geohash is that you can remove characters off the right side
      of the string and it'll still be valid, although less precise.
    * Overview of Geohash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geohash
    * Site for finding Geohashes: http://geohash.org/
    * Example of how trimming a Geohash string degrades accuracy:
      http://mappinghacks.com/2008/05/29/geohash-implemented-in-python/
    * Geohash is included in PostGIS
    * There are many python implementations, the python-geohash with a C
      extension is fast and actively maintained:
      http://code.google.com/p/python-geohash/


"PostGIS" by Webb Sprague

    * PostGIS adds support for geographic objects to PostgreSQL databases.
    * Overview of PostGIS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostGIS
    * Site for PostGIS distribution: http://postgis.refractions.net/
    * Manual for PostGIS:
      http://postgis.refractions.net/documentation/manual-1.4/
    * In PostGIS, geography is stored as geometric types: "point" has
      latitude/longitude, "line" which has two points, "polygon" has a
      series of connected lines, etc. These are stored in PostgreSQL as
      "geometry" columns.
    * You can run database queries to find centroids of a polygon, get
      distances between objects, select items within a polygon, select
      items a certain distance from a point, get the Geohash for a
      geometric object, etc.
    * Performance is an important issue because some operations can be
      quite expensive. Ways to address this include adding indexes,
      creating lower-resolution copies of complex geometric shapes that
      are quicker to run queries on, storing pre-calculated data, etc.


"GeoDjango" by Tim Welch -- @t_doubleuu, http://tdubya.net/

    * These notes provide additional content to the slides that Tim
      posted, you should probably read both:
      http://tdubya.net/2010/01/13/geodjango-and-friends/
    * Tim Welch works on open source Python GIS projects like:
          o Open OceanMap, "a data collection tool used to effectively
            collect local expert knowledge in support of marine spatial
            planning": http://www.ecotrust.org/ocean/OpenOceanMap.html
          o MarineMap, "a web-based decision support tool for open and
            participatory spatial planning in the marine environment.":
            http://marinemap.org/
    * GeoDjango is a geospatial extension for the Django web framework.
          o Site: http://geodjango.org/
          o Documentation: http://geodjango.org/docs/
          o Tutorial, highly recommended:
            http://geodjango.org/docs/tutorial.html
    * GeoDjango works best with PostGIS (PostgreSQL), but will also work
      with SpatiaLite (SQLite), Oracle Spatial (Oracle), and MySQL.
    * GeoDjango provides geometry fields for use in Django models:
      PointField, LineStringField, PolygonField, MultiPolygonField, etc.
    * GeoManager allows Django models to perform spatial queries:
          o Relationship: contains, covers, crosses, intersects,
            overlaps, touches.
          o Measurement: area, length, perimeter, distance
          o Geometry: difference, intersection, union
          o Serialization: GeoJSON, KML, SVG, GeoRSS
    * The "django.contrib.gis.geos" module provides Python classes for
      representing geometric types like Point and Polygon. These classes
      include useful methods like calculating area of a polygon,
      creating a polygon that's the difference between other polygons,
      etc. These classes provide a way to specify the spatial reference
      system (SRID) and transform between them, e.g., go from
      latitude/longitude to x/y meters from a particular place.
    * You can get the PostgreSQL INSERT statement to add PostGIS support
      for a particular SRID from: http://spatialreference.org/
    * In Django, you'll need to tell settings.py to use the
      "django.contrib.gis.db.backends.postgis" engine for the database
      and include "django.contrib.gis" in the INSTALLED_APPS.
    * The GeoDjango "ogrinspect" Django manage.py subcommand can read a
      dataset and generate the code for a Django model with all its
      attributes.
    * The GeoDjango admin interface "admin.OSMGeoAdmin" can let you view
      and edit your mapping data visually on the web and overlay it on
      the Open Street Map data set.
    * You may also be interested in GeoExt, a JavaScript toolkit for
      rich web mapping: http://www.geoext.org/

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From webb.sprague at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 20:12:48 2010
From: webb.sprague at gmail.com (Webb Sprague)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:12:48 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting notes: January 12, 2009 -- Geohash, PostGIS,
	GeoDjango
In-Reply-To: <4B4E09A5.7030401@pragmaticraft.com>
References: <4B4E09A5.7030401@pragmaticraft.com>
Message-ID: <b11ea23c1001131112s6af3df4dr33dafbda1e2ddc7d@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Igal for the summary, and thanks to the group for having us
last night to talk!

-Webb

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Igal Koshevoy <igal at pragmaticraft.com> wrote:
> Please post any corrections or additions.
>
> PRESENTATIONS

<SNIP>

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 10:30:49 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:30:49 -0800
Subject: [portland] Meeting notes: January 12, 2009 -- Geohash, PostGIS,
	GeoDjango
In-Reply-To: <4B4E09A5.7030401@pragmaticraft.com>
References: <4B4E09A5.7030401@pragmaticraft.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c1001140130i2c8dceeey54956165ff5b131@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Igal Koshevoy <igal at pragmaticraft.com> wrote:
> Please post any corrections or additions.
>

Glad for the write-up, sorry I missed this.

I've been harping on 2.6 over on edu-sig, got a thread going.  Good
to have all those new format specifiers.

Andre has just reworded the page to encourage that version
or above for the 2.xers.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2010-January/thread.html#9720

Also, I've been posting notes on the 2nd edition of Mathematics for
the Digital Age and Programming in Python, by Maria and Gary Litvin.
This is a hybrid math and computer science course, modeled after
Concrete Mathematics in some ways.  We could use more of this
kind of stuff in Oregon, someone tell Intel?  Phillips Academy, meet
Saturday Academy, eh?

http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html

PostgreSQL rocks.

Finally met up Rami Kassab of Thinktype, a local Python and Django
shop.

OK, to sleep, perchance to dream...

Kirby

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Thu Jan 21 18:15:18 2010
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:15:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python Applications
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

   Python is an interpreted scripting language with outstanding mathematical
libraries and a great UI development tool in wxPython. Unlike complied
languages such as C the underlying code is visible to everyone who looks at
it. This is a problem when the application is unique and proprietary.

   Consider the context. Suppose you wrote an application that analyzed -- in
real time -- a commercial building's energy use and made adjustments that
saved 50% of the energy formerly consumed. You want to sell this application
to building owners and managers but you don't want actual or potential
competitors to appropriate your intellectual property that figuring out the
energy savings represents. It's your business, your ideas, and your
potential source of financial independence. How would you protect the
underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
you sold your application to clients?

   My situation is analogous and I don't want to start over by re-writing
everything in C. Your suggestions and recommendations are wanted.

Rich



From monk at netjunky.com  Thu Jan 21 18:31:25 2010
From: monk at netjunky.com (jonathan karon)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:31:25 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <EEF1B956-1426-47B6-92F9-B66B130C3CCE@netjunky.com>

Rich,


On Jan 21, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:

> How would you protect the
> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor  
> when
> you sold your application to clients?
>

I've used some of the bundling tools mentioned here to build a  
standalone distributable app:

http://effbot.org/zone/python-compile.htm

I'm not sure whether any of these pre-compiles your source to bytecode  
and whether the distributable must include the source python files or  
not, but it's a place to start.  Python bytecode is certainly not  
immune from reverse-engineering, but it's a big step better than raw  
source with comments.

You could also look at pyobfuscator:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/


~jonathan


From georgedorn at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 19:11:00 2010
From: georgedorn at gmail.com (Sam Thompson)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:11:00 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <EEF1B956-1426-47B6-92F9-B66B130C3CCE@netjunky.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<EEF1B956-1426-47B6-92F9-B66B130C3CCE@netjunky.com>
Message-ID: <78869ed71001211011gaa64dbdga54e0899293105fc@mail.gmail.com>

If the situation allows, sell a service instead of an application.
Run the core IP on your own server and provide a client, such as using
a web app or wxwidgets.

OTOH, if your IP is the code interfacing with hardware, this probably
won't work for you.

> On Jan 21, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:
>
>> How would you protect the
>> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
>> you sold your application to clients?

From python at dylanreinhardt.com  Thu Jan 21 19:15:35 2010
From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:15:35 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <4c645a721001211015m4ed06749j71ede0dd474cc431@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com>wrote:

>  Python is an interpreted scripting language with outstanding mathematical
> libraries and a great UI development tool in wxPython. Unlike complied
> languages such as C the underlying code is visible to everyone who looks at
> it. This is a problem when the application is unique and proprietary.
>
>
There are technical approaches to this problem, but I suspect the real
problem is you have the wrong distribution model.  If your algo is truly
unique and highly valuable, I would seriously consider a SaaS model.  That
way you sell access/usage, not copies of your trade secrets.

SaaS used to be regarded with some suspicion by corporate IT, but the
cost-benefit on that shifted a while ago.  It's now likely to be seen as
*less* risky than installing your custom-built desktop app.  The fact that
you also get better control is a serious win-win.

For what that's worth...

Dylan
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 19:17:49 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:17:49 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c1001211017o159e4b12gba3900d9afc06e58@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> wrote:
> ?Python is an interpreted scripting language with outstanding mathematical
> libraries and a great UI development tool in wxPython. Unlike complied
> languages such as C the underlying code is visible to everyone who looks at
> it. This is a problem when the application is unique and proprietary.
>
> ?Consider the context. Suppose you wrote an application that analyzed -- in
> real time -- a commercial building's energy use and made adjustments that
> saved 50% of the energy formerly consumed. You want to sell this application
> to building owners and managers but you don't want actual or potential
> competitors to appropriate your intellectual property that figuring out the
> energy savings represents. It's your business, your ideas, and your
> potential source of financial independence. How would you protect the
> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
> you sold your application to clients?
>
> ?My situation is analogous and I don't want to start over by re-writing
> everything in C. Your suggestions and recommendations are wanted.
>
> Rich
>

Keep the secret sauce in the cloud?  Open source the client side only?

There are ways to distribute Python without .py source files though,
which others may speak to.

Bittorrent is a wx app yes?

Kirby

From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jan 21 19:29:48 2010
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:29:48 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <f604188c1001211017o159e4b12gba3900d9afc06e58@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<f604188c1001211017o159e4b12gba3900d9afc06e58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B589D1C.3040804@alldunn.com>

On 1/21/10 10:17 AM, kirby urner wrote:
> Bittorrent is a wx app yes?

It used to be.  I think they've switched to PyGTK in more recent 
versions though.

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org


From rcoder at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 19:36:18 2010
From: rcoder at gmail.com (Lennon Day-Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:36:18 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <5d4c61241001211036u32c7d44av823e85a4aaaa35d6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> wrote:
> [...] You want to sell this application
> to building owners and managers but you don't want actual or potential
> competitors to appropriate your intellectual property that figuring out the
> energy savings represents. It's your business, your ideas, and your
> potential source of financial independence. How would you protect the
> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
> you sold your application to clients?
>
> ?My situation is analogous and I don't want to start over by re-writing
> everything in C. Your suggestions and recommendations are wanted.

There are a few options. If you're willing to limit distribution to
only Windows systems, you can use py2exe to create a standalone
"binary" that at least conceals the Python source code. As others have
suggested, a bytecode-only archive will also frustrate casual attempts
at copying your code.

Unfortunately, no copy protection or obfuscation scheme is going to do
more than keep the honest folks honest -- in a DRM arms race, you can
pretty much guarantee that the would-be reverse engineers will
eventually win. Given time and motivation, someone will figure out how
to disassemble your obfuscated code, or simply attach a debugger to
the running program and trace the Python VM calls it uses.

As an alternative, have you considered simply attaching some language
to your licensing agreement that forbids reverse engineering and
redistribution? If you're offering a useful product that honestly
saves people money (and offering support and services along with it)
why should they balk at paying you a fair price for a license, or risk
legal consequences by giving it away to others? From your example, it
doesn't sound like you're going to be dealing with the typical
software pirates (college kids cracking their Photoshop torrents,
etc.).

Furthermore, if you really need it to protect yourself from
competitors, patent some useful, novel piece of your implementation.
Then you don't have protection *only* for the Python source code --
you can actually go after folks who rip off your core algorithms and
architecture.

In short, DRM is no substitute for a reasonable business model. Just
ask the recording industry. Provide something people want, and stay
ahead of pirates by keeping your customers happy.

-- 
Lennon Day-Reynolds <rcoder at gmail.com>
http://rcoder.net/

From mccredie at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 19:47:47 2010
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matt McCredie)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:47:47 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <9e95df11001211047m57987fa9tb5bf927383fcd6a0@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> wrote:
> ?Python is an interpreted scripting language with outstanding mathematical
> libraries and a great UI development tool in wxPython. Unlike complied
> languages such as C the underlying code is visible to everyone who looks at
> it. This is a problem when the application is unique and proprietary.
>
> ?Consider the context. Suppose you wrote an application that analyzed -- in
> real time -- a commercial building's energy use and made adjustments that
> saved 50% of the energy formerly consumed. You want to sell this application
> to building owners and managers but you don't want actual or potential
> competitors to appropriate your intellectual property that figuring out the
> energy savings represents. It's your business, your ideas, and your
> potential source of financial independence. How would you protect the
> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
> you sold your application to clients?
>
> ?My situation is analogous and I don't want to start over by re-writing
> everything in C. Your suggestions and recommendations are wanted.

You don't have to rewrite _everything_ in C. You could just rewrite
the core algorithm as a .pyd that can be loaded by your python code.
You can also write a plain dll/so that you can could call using
ctypes. You coud even create a COM object if you are using Windows
(load with comtypes or pywin32).

That being said, I work on a similar project and we use a tool
(developed in house) that is similar to py2exe for packaging up our
product into an executable. That only gets you part of the way since
the executable still contains the byte code. We also protect ourselves
via licensing. Additionally have an obfuscation step. We don't try to
obfuscate the algorithm, but we do scramble the names of some of the
variables. We have a very specific reason for obfuscating the names of
these variables, and it probably doesn't make sense in most cases.

HTH

Matt McCredie

From andy at clearwind.ca  Wed Jan 20 06:04:25 2010
From: andy at clearwind.ca (Andy McKay)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 21:04:25 -0800
Subject: [portland] Free DjangoSki tickets for charities
Message-ID: <1B6B77F4-3243-4372-B441-FAFD9426A045@clearwind.ca>

Hi there,

We've got some tickets to give away to DjangoSki, thanks to the Python  
Foundation. So we thought we'd give them to members of charities or  
non-profits who want to come to DjangoSki. Get to come and do some  
sprinting and listen to the keynotes in our un-conference event: http://clearwind.ca/djangoski 
.

Thanks to a kind sponsor here, we've also got free accomodation. So  
that means:

- free entrance
- free lunch, dinner, coffee etc and the occasional donut
- free accomodation

All you have to do is get up to Whistler. We can't give you free  
skiing or beer I'm afraid.

If you are interested in one of these tickets, or want to nominate  
someone, drop me a line before the end of this week.

And of course if you don't work for a charity, but want to come,  
registration is still open.

Cheers
--
   Andy McKay, @clearwind
   http://clearwind.ca/djangoski


From igal at pragmaticraft.com  Fri Jan 15 10:28:09 2010
From: igal at pragmaticraft.com (Igal Koshevoy)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:28:09 -0800
Subject: [portland] OT: Open Source Bridge 2010 town hall meeting on January
	28
Message-ID: <f10306b1001150128k745bdf71j2e3507eedd595497@mail.gmail.com>

We're busy planning the Open Source Bridge 2010 conference in Portland:
* Attend our town hall on January 28: http://calagator.org/events/1250458164
* Subscribe to our blog: http://opensourcebridge.org/
* Join our mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/osbridge
* Follow @osbridge: http://twitter.com/osbridge && http://identi.ca/osbridge
* Obey @osbridgebot: http://twitter.com/osbridgebot &&
http://identi.ca/osbridgebot

See you at the town hall!

-igal

...

The Conference for Open Source Citizens is back in 2010, this time
with MORE:

   * Sessions for collaborative hacking
   * Coffee in the afternoon
   * Ways to grow our community
   * Fabulous opportunities to volunteer
   * and... MORE COOKIES!


Join the Open Source Bridge Organization Team for a Town Hall at
Nedspace Oldtown on Thursday, January 28 at 7pm. We'll be sharing with
you our plans for this year's conference as well as announcing the
date we'll open the call for proposals. We also want to hear your
input about the sessions you'd like to see this year.

Open Source Bridge cannot happen without community involvement. Come
hear the volunteer opportunities we need filled and sign up to make
your event a success.

What:   Open Source Bridge Town Hall
Where: Nedspace, Oldtown - 117 NW Fifth Ave. (btwn Couch and Davis)
When:  Thursday, January 28, 7PM
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From lgellert at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 18:49:45 2010
From: lgellert at gmail.com (LG)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:49:45 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <4B5893B9.40109@gmail.com>

Jonathon's points are great.

I would add in the web enabled world, the UI layer could be setup to 
call services on a backend server you host and control. That way only 
the UI layer is being distributed to the customer and the valuable logic 
is protected behind your firewall.  This is called Service Oriented 
Architecture (SOA) and is gaining popularity (please forgive the buzz 
word).  I'm not sure if it would work fast enough for your specific 
needs but it is one option.  If anything SOA helps me think about the 
distinct layers of an application and how they relate, even if it is all 
running inside just one machine.

Java would be a middle ground compiled language, compared to C.  There 
is a nice math package by apache commons I have used for stats in java. 

Best,
Laurence

Rich Shepard wrote:
>   Python is an interpreted scripting language with outstanding 
> mathematical
> libraries and a great UI development tool in wxPython. Unlike complied
> languages such as C the underlying code is visible to everyone who 
> looks at
> it. This is a problem when the application is unique and proprietary.
>
>   Consider the context. Suppose you wrote an application that analyzed 
> -- in
> real time -- a commercial building's energy use and made adjustments that
> saved 50% of the energy formerly consumed. You want to sell this 
> application
> to building owners and managers but you don't want actual or potential
> competitors to appropriate your intellectual property that figuring 
> out the
> energy savings represents. It's your business, your ideas, and your
> potential source of financial independence. How would you protect the
> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
> you sold your application to clients?
>
>   My situation is analogous and I don't want to start over by re-writing
> everything in C. Your suggestions and recommendations are wanted.
>
> Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Portland mailing list
> Portland at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/portland
>

From gordon.morehouse at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 21:36:41 2010
From: gordon.morehouse at gmail.com (Gordon Morehouse)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:36:41 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <CFA27836-A328-4E2C-9CC1-73B563147A09@darkhorse.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<CFA27836-A328-4E2C-9CC1-73B563147A09@darkhorse.com>
Message-ID: <b5a95c271001211236r1ae7df68qa372325616f84e6e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Jython as a potential solution.
Compile to Java bytecode.

http://www.jython.org/

It was the first thing that came to my mind.

Of course, this wouldn't prevent dedicated reverse engineers, nor
would anything else other than presenting your product as a service.

-Gordon

> ?Python is an interpreted scripting language with outstanding mathematical
> libraries and a great UI development tool in wxPython. Unlike complied
> languages such as C the underlying code is visible to everyone who looks at
> it. This is a problem when the application is unique and proprietary.
>
> ?Consider the context. Suppose you wrote an application that analyzed -- in
> real time -- a commercial building's energy use and made adjustments that
> saved 50% of the energy formerly consumed. You want to sell this application
> to building owners and managers but you don't want actual or potential
> competitors to appropriate your intellectual property that figuring out the
> energy savings represents. It's your business, your ideas, and your
> potential source of financial independence. How would you protect the
> underlying source code from being mis-used by a potential competitor when
> you sold your application to clients?
>
> ?My situation is analogous and I don't want to start over by re-writing
> everything in C. Your suggestions and recommendations are wanted.

From aaron.devore at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 23:13:05 2010
From: aaron.devore at gmail.com (Aaron DeVore)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:13:05 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <9e95df11001211047m57987fa9tb5bf927383fcd6a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<9e95df11001211047m57987fa9tb5bf927383fcd6a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ead2fb1001211413o38153977g793715d4b76bd5c6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Matt McCredie <mccredie at gmail.com> wrote:

> You don't have to rewrite _everything_ in C. You could just rewrite
> the core algorithm as a .pyd that can be loaded by your python code.
> You can also write a plain dll/so that you can could call using
> ctypes. You coud even create a COM object if you are using Windows
> (load with comtypes or pywin32).

If you don't want to rewrite in C but still want the obfuscate via
compiling option then Cython could be a good option. It is a
Python-based language that compiles down to C and the Python C API.
The downside is that it requires a Cython and C compilers.

-Aaron

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Thu Jan 21 23:52:30 2010
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:52:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
 Applications
In-Reply-To: <2ead2fb1001211413o38153977g793715d4b76bd5c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<9e95df11001211047m57987fa9tb5bf927383fcd6a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ead2fb1001211413o38153977g793715d4b76bd5c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001211446490.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010, Aaron DeVore wrote:

> If you don't want to rewrite in C but still want the obfuscate via
> compiling option then Cython could be a good option. It is a Python-based
> language that compiles down to C and the Python C API. The downside is
> that it requires a Cython and C compilers.

Aaron,

   Without going into a lot of detail, one business service we sell is
creation of approximate reasoning models to address
multi-objective/multi-criteria decision-making under conditions of
uncertainty. There is only a handfull of us doing this world-wide, and we
specialize in the environmental and resource allocation sectors. We'll also
do general business when asked.

   These models are based on the mathematics of fuzzy sets and fuzzy logic
and parallel processing fuzzy inference engines have all been custom
developed. It is this core inference engine that I want to protect. I don't
believe in software/business process patents, but these models have very
high value for the companies that use them and, therefore, for us too.

   I'll find and learn Cpython and use that with gcc. Thanks very much for
the pointer. And thanks to everyone else for contributing ideas and
suggestions.

Rich

From aaron.devore at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 00:15:47 2010
From: aaron.devore at gmail.com (Aaron DeVore)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:15:47 -0800
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
	Applications
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001211446490.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<9e95df11001211047m57987fa9tb5bf927383fcd6a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ead2fb1001211413o38153977g793715d4b76bd5c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1001211446490.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
Message-ID: <2ead2fb1001211515t1f324d6bo35d2938c3b18ec34@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> wrote:

> ?I'll find and learn Cpython and use that with gcc. Thanks very much for
> the pointer. And thanks to everyone else for contributing ideas and
> suggestions.

Rich,
Cython, not Cpython. Just making sure you're not getting a bunch of
search results about the CPython implementation. :)

-Aaron

From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com  Fri Jan 22 00:35:05 2010
From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:35:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [portland] Protecting Intellectual Property In Python
 Applications
In-Reply-To: <2ead2fb1001211515t1f324d6bo35d2938c3b18ec34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001210907480.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<9e95df11001211047m57987fa9tb5bf927383fcd6a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ead2fb1001211413o38153977g793715d4b76bd5c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1001211446490.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>
	<2ead2fb1001211515t1f324d6bo35d2938c3b18ec34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1001211534410.11645@salmo.appl-ecosys.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010, Aaron DeVore wrote:

> Cython, not Cpython.

   Yup. Caught the difference. :-)

Many thanks,

Rich

From brettlsmythe at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 20:48:26 2010
From: brettlsmythe at gmail.com (Brett Smythe)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:48:26 -0800
Subject: [portland] Northwest Python Day Transportation
Message-ID: <cce34bda1001251148h1dcd20ava1774cd7938aa00c@mail.gmail.com>

First off forgive me if I'm using the mailing list incorrectly, I haven't
used / been part of one before.

Secondly I know there was some talk of carpooling for the upcoming Northwest
Python Day, is there someone specifically I should be talking to or perhaps
someplace this is being organized online?

Thanks in advance,
Brett
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From RWagoner at volt.com  Mon Jan 25 20:57:20 2010
From: RWagoner at volt.com (Wagoner, Roger)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:57:20 -0800
Subject: [portland] Python Developers
Message-ID: <EAAF2656304EB6409EBAC761DD7721212607B677@CA100EX1.west.vis.com>

Hello,

 

I attended the Python event the other week and introduced myself, and
just wanted to say thank you. I currently have 2 Python roles open for
direct hire positions in Portland, and I would be happy to provide more
detail - please send resume to rwagoner at volt.com if interested. Thanks!

 

If I have sent this to the wrong list please let me know.

 

Roger Wagoner

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From python at dylanreinhardt.com  Tue Jan 26 01:22:14 2010
From: python at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:22:14 -0800
Subject: [portland] fun with comparison operators and booleans
Message-ID: <4c645a721001251622n34dc0b1cibe375e049c51473a@mail.gmail.com>

There was a fun thread on Baypiggies today, where someone asked:

----
Can anyone explain the following:

>>>* a = 1*>>>* b = 2*>>>* alist = [5,6]*>>>* print a in alist*False

>>>* a in alist == b in alist*False
>>>* a in alist == a in alist*False
>>>* bool(a in alist) == bool(b in alist)      # this does what we expect*True
>>>* c = 5*>>>* c in alist == c in alist*False

----

After some guesses and discussion came this cool answer:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/2010-January/006139.html

Well worth a read...

Dylan
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