From garcia.marc at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 10:18:20 2018 From: garcia.marc at gmail.com (Marc Garcia) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 15:18:20 +0000 Subject: [Pandas-dev] European pandas contributors meeting in London Message-ID: Hi there, We're planning to have a meeting for the pandas contributors in Europe (obviously open to anyone who wants to fly to London). The day will probably be from the 25 to the 27 of January. On Friday afternoon we could have an event with talks and may be an interactive session with users to answer their questions and get their feedback. And Saturday and Sunday for sprints (also open to the public). Everything is yet to be confirmed, and ideas are more than welcome. Just wanted to send an early message, to see if someone else wants to participate, get involved or propose ideas (so far we discussed it with Joris and Pietro, I'm not aware of anyone else in Europe). Just get in touch. Cheers, Marc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drew.asch at ufl.edu Thu Dec 13 09:52:13 2018 From: drew.asch at ufl.edu (Aschenbrener, Drew) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 14:52:13 +0000 Subject: [Pandas-dev] DataFrame.to_html() Message-ID: <87141801207f455c87c8011a5e75a46d@exmbxprd14.ad.ufl.edu> Hi Devs, I'm an entry level developer with University of Florida. I've spent several hours on stack-overflow and other forums, and it seems that something that pandas could easily handle is made extremely difficult. I may not have the full context of the decisions made, but maybe you could help me understand. 'DataFrame.to_html' does not provide any basic formatting options. Everywhere I've researched, the most simple solutions involve installing other packages in order to add various stylers. This seems excessive when you are trying to do something as simple as align a single column of data. I have one column of text and one column of numbers (defaults all to left align), I simply want to change the alignment of a single column, and the amount of work it takes to make that happen seems excessive. You provide table formatters, and the ability to justify labels, it seems a small step to provide the ability to justify specified columns. Is there something I am missing? I've been using python awhile, but I'm relatively new to pandas. - Drew Andrew (Drew) Aschenbrener IT Analyst | UF - Identity Services | (352) 273-1395 | Identity-Services at it.ufl.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elmq0022 at umn.edu Sat Dec 15 19:57:52 2018 From: elmq0022 at umn.edu (Aaron Elmquist) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 18:57:52 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] DataFrame.to_html() In-Reply-To: <87141801207f455c87c8011a5e75a46d@exmbxprd14.ad.ufl.edu> References: <87141801207f455c87c8011a5e75a46d@exmbxprd14.ad.ufl.edu> Message-ID: Drew, I am not a core Dev, but I think this link might help. https://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/style.html Looks like DatsFrame.styles.apply or DataFrame.style.applymap will let you set css attributes and values in a very powerful way. I have not tried this, so let me know if it helps or not. Best, Aaron On Sat, Dec 15, 2018, 9:54 AM Aschenbrener, Drew Hi Devs, > > > > I?m an entry level developer with University of Florida. > > > > I?ve spent several hours on stack-overflow and other forums, and it seems > that something that pandas could easily handle is made extremely difficult. > I may not have the full context of the decisions made, but maybe you could > help me understand. > > > > ?DataFrame.to_html? does not provide any basic formatting options. > Everywhere I?ve researched, the most simple solutions involve installing > other packages in order to add various stylers. This seems excessive when > you are trying to do something as simple as align a single column of data. > I have one column of text and one column of numbers (defaults all to left > align), I simply want to change the alignment of a single column, and the > amount of work it takes to make that happen seems excessive. You provide > table formatters, and the ability to justify labels, it seems a small step > to provide the ability to justify specified columns. > > > > Is there something I am missing? I?ve been using python awhile, but I?m > relatively new to pandas. > > > > - Drew > > > > *Andrew (Drew) Aschenbrener* > > IT Analyst | UF ? Identity Services | (352) 273-1395 | > Identity-Services at it.ufl.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aveysov at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 01:11:40 2018 From: aveysov at gmail.com (Alexander Veysov) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 09:11:40 +0300 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Parallel group by operations in pandas Message-ID: Hi, I was reading Wes's *article *about pandas and my eye caught this: > 7. Better groupby(...).apply operations > ... due to other problems listed here, it is difficult or impossible to fully parallelize a df.groupby(...).apply(f) operation. > At some point, we will also want to improve the API for complex apply operations in pandas. I did not quite understand what was meant here. Some time ago I wrote some simple multiprocessing *wrappers * for pandas, which provide almost linear increase in speed for relatively large dataframes (5-15 GB on disk in csv / feather, 100GB of RAM) when you use many CPU cores on a single machine. This is more or less like map-reduce, but on a single machine. Does this article mean something else, like the internal overhead for small operations? Because in my practice calculations in pandas are easily parallelized even w/o fancy tools like dask / vaex / pandas on ray. Many thanks for your reply! *Alexander Veysov * *m: *+7(916) 725 0871 *e:* aveysov at gmail.com *telegram*: *link* *blog: link * *website: **link * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 15:09:24 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:09:24 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Parallel group by operations in pandas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi Alexander, If you are parallelizing with multiprocessing, you are having to serialize (pickle) data from one process and deserialize it with another. You can obtain linear scalability (in a big-O sense) that way, but you are introducing overhead. So in my blog post when I said "difficult or impossible" I meant "difficult or impossible without introducing substantial overhead". Within a single Python process, parallelizing an apply(...) operation may be impractical in some cases due to GIL-contention. - Wes On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:05 AM Alexander Veysov wrote: > > Hi, > > I was reading Wes's article about pandas and my eye caught this: > > > 7. Better groupby(...).apply operations > > ... due to other problems listed here, it is difficult or impossible to fully parallelize a df.groupby(...).apply(f) operation. > > At some point, we will also want to improve the API for complex apply operations in pandas. > > I did not quite understand what was meant here. > > Some time ago I wrote some simple multiprocessing wrappers for pandas, which provide almost linear increase in speed for relatively large dataframes (5-15 GB on disk in csv / feather, 100GB of RAM) when you use many CPU cores on a single machine. This is more or less like map-reduce, but on a single machine. > > Does this article mean something else, like the internal overhead for small operations? > Because in my practice calculations in pandas are easily parallelized even w/o fancy tools like dask / vaex / pandas on ray. > > Many thanks for your reply! > > Alexander Veysov > m: +7(916) 725 0871 > e: aveysov at gmail.com > telegram: link > blog: link > website: link > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From xhochy at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 06:36:02 2018 From: xhochy at gmail.com (Uwe L. Korn) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:36:02 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] European pandas contributors meeting in London In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Marc, nice to see such a meeting happening over here in Europe . Sadly I have no time on that specific days in January but I would like to join such a thing in the future. Although I don't consider myself a Pandas contributor, I think as a contributor to the ecosystem (especially Arrow) around Pandas this meeting would be good for collaboration. Cheers Uwe Marc Garcia schrieb am So. 9. Dez. 2018 um 16:18: > Hi there, > > We're planning to have a meeting for the pandas contributors in Europe > (obviously open to anyone who wants to fly to London). The day will > probably be from the 25 to the 27 of January. On Friday afternoon we could > have an event with talks and may be an interactive session with users to > answer their questions and get their feedback. And Saturday and Sunday for > sprints (also open to the public). > > Everything is yet to be confirmed, and ideas are more than welcome. Just > wanted to send an early message, to see if someone else wants to > participate, get involved or propose ideas (so far we discussed it with > Joris and Pietro, I'm not aware of anyone else in Europe). Just get in > touch. > > Cheers, > Marc > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garcia.marc at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 07:13:42 2018 From: garcia.marc at gmail.com (Marc Garcia) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 12:13:42 +0000 Subject: [Pandas-dev] European pandas contributors meeting in London In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for pointing that out. In case I wrote it in a way that sounded that the event was meant to be exclusive for pandas contributors, that was my mistake. Contributors of the rest of the ecosystem, pandas users, and everyone else interested is more than welcome. And it'd definitely be really great to have you and other Arrow contributors. Thinks have been slower than expected to confirm a venue, but we should be able to have an update soon. Cheers! On Thu, 20 Dec 2018, 11:36 Uwe L. Korn Hello Marc, > > nice to see such a meeting happening over here in Europe . Sadly I have no > time on that specific days in January but I would like to join such a thing > in the future. Although I don't consider myself a Pandas contributor, I > think as a contributor to the ecosystem (especially Arrow) around Pandas > this meeting would be good for collaboration. > > > Cheers > Uwe > > Marc Garcia schrieb am So. 9. Dez. 2018 um 16:18: > >> Hi there, >> >> We're planning to have a meeting for the pandas contributors in Europe >> (obviously open to anyone who wants to fly to London). The day will >> probably be from the 25 to the 27 of January. On Friday afternoon we could >> have an event with talks and may be an interactive session with users to >> answer their questions and get their feedback. And Saturday and Sunday for >> sprints (also open to the public). >> >> Everything is yet to be confirmed, and ideas are more than welcome. Just >> wanted to send an early message, to see if someone else wants to >> participate, get involved or propose ideas (so far we discussed it with >> Joris and Pietro, I'm not aware of anyone else in Europe). Just get in >> touch. >> >> Cheers, >> Marc >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 18:02:50 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 17:02:50 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? Message-ID: hi folks, Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there something like this already that I just missed? As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and preferably in public. - Wes From william.ayd at icloud.com Mon Dec 24 19:57:21 2018 From: william.ayd at icloud.com (William Ayd) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 16:57:21 -0800 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: > > hi folks, > > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there > something like this already that I just missed? > > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and > preferably in public. > > - Wes > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From wesmckinn at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 20:11:09 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 20:11:09 -0500 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm talking about public archived communication channels On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve > only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of > what you are asking for. > > > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: > > > > hi folks, > > > > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think > > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other > > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away > > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there > > something like this already that I just missed? > > > > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the > > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I > > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and > > preferably in public. > > > > - Wes > > _______________________________________________ > > Pandas-dev mailing list > > Pandas-dev at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shoyer at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 20:19:19 2018 From: shoyer at gmail.com (Stephan Hoyer) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 18:19:19 -0700 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for pydata-dev I don't think there's a list quite like this today. On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: > I'm talking about public archived communication channels > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd >> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve >> only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of >> what you are asking for. >> >> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >> > >> > hi folks, >> > >> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >> > something like this already that I just missed? >> > >> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >> > preferably in public. >> > >> > - Wes >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 16:59:01 2018 From: jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com (Joris Van den Bossche) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2018 22:59:01 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. Joris Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer +1 for pydata-dev > > I don't think there's a list quite like this today. > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: > >> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd > >>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve >>> only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of >>> what you are asking for. >>> >>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >>> > >>> > hi folks, >>> > >>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >>> > something like this already that I just missed? >>> > >>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >>> > preferably in public. >>> > >>> > - Wes >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 11:46:48 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 10:46:48 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer that On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche wrote: > > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. > > Joris > > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer > >> +1 for pydata-dev >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >>> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd >>> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. >>>> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >>>> > >>>> > hi folks, >>>> > >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >>>> > >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >>>> > preferably in public. >>>> > >>>> > - Wes >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From garcia.marc at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 11:52:02 2018 From: garcia.marc at gmail.com (Marc Garcia) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 16:52:02 +0000 Subject: [Pandas-dev] European pandas contributors meeting in London In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi there, We've got all ready to announce the pandas contributors meeting I mentioned earlier. This is the website for the event, which I'm planning to make public tomorrow: https://python-sprints.github.io/europandas2019/ If anyone has any comment about it, please let me know. Including the schedule, the registration process, the texts, images, if you want to speak or attend... I hope we can live stream the Friday sessions, so they are available to everybody interested. About the sprints, I expect a small group of first-timers (e.g. 5/10 people). But it should be mainly for experienced contributors of pandas and the ecosystem. So, I don't expect exceptional activity in GitHub. If anyone has ideas regarding the sprints (topics to work on...). They are more than welcome. Wes pointed out about the event, that it shouldn't replace the regular online communications. And that nobody should feel excluded from participating in the discussions for not attending in-person. I totally agree, and even more being a regional event. For everybody participating, please remember to move the relevant discussions online during or after the event. Whether they are internal to pandas, or between projects. Cheers! On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:18 PM Marc Garcia wrote: > Hi there, > > We're planning to have a meeting for the pandas contributors in Europe > (obviously open to anyone who wants to fly to London). The day will > probably be from the 25 to the 27 of January. On Friday afternoon we could > have an event with talks and may be an interactive session with users to > answer their questions and get their feedback. And Saturday and Sunday for > sprints (also open to the public). > > Everything is yet to be confirmed, and ideas are more than welcome. Just > wanted to send an early message, to see if someone else wants to > participate, get involved or propose ideas (so far we discussed it with > Joris and Pietro, I'm not aware of anyone else in Europe). Just get in > touch. > > Cheers, > Marc > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 12:26:17 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 11:26:17 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Copying the mailing list On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:58 AM Matthew Rocklin wrote: > > I would be happy to participate in such a list and think that it is a good idea. > > I encourage people to reach out and ask on other PyData focused mailing lists asking for input. Numfocus, scipy-dev, numpy-dev come to mind. There are undoubtedly others though that are in this space, but not on my personal radar. > > I'll also bring up the possibility of using a technology other than e-mail. I've been interested in PyTorch's use of discouse recently. https://discuss.pytorch.org/ No strong thoughts on this though. I'm not sure that there is a good e-mail alternative today, but it would be good to improve the longevity of asynchronous group conversations. > Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for long-form discussions between project developers. IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible solutions. > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer >> that >> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche >> wrote: >> > >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. >> > >> > Joris >> > >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer > >> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev >> >> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd > >>>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. >> >>>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >> >>>> > >> >>>> > hi folks, >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >> >>>> > >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >> >>>> > preferably in public. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > - Wes >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From pmlandwehr at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 12:56:58 2018 From: pmlandwehr at gmail.com (Pete[r] Landwehr) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 09:56:58 -0800 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. On Wed, Dec 26, 2018, 9:27 AM Wes McKinney wrote: > Copying the mailing list > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:58 AM Matthew Rocklin > wrote: > > > > I would be happy to participate in such a list and think that it is a > good idea. > > > > I encourage people to reach out and ask on other PyData focused mailing > lists asking for input. Numfocus, scipy-dev, numpy-dev come to mind. > There are undoubtedly others though that are in this space, but not on my > personal radar. > > > > I'll also bring up the possibility of using a technology other than > e-mail. I've been interested in PyTorch's use of discouse recently. > https://discuss.pytorch.org/ No strong thoughts on this though. I'm not > sure that there is a good e-mail alternative today, but it would be good to > improve the longevity of asynchronous group conversations. > > > > Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's > case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for > long-form discussions between project developers. > > IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue > -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years > coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does > of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would > help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible > solutions. > > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> > >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create > >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer > >> that > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to > pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that > would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. > >> > > >> > Joris > >> > > >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer >> >> > >> >> +1 for pydata-dev > >> >> > >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels > >> >>> > >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? > I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the > direction of what you are asking for. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > hi folks, > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think > >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve > other > >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation > away > >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there > >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer > conferences the > >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, > but I > >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and > >> >>>> > preferably in public. > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > - Wes > >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >>>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrocklin at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 18:41:29 2018 From: mrocklin at gmail.com (Matthew Rocklin) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:41:29 -0800 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Copying the mailing list >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's >> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for >> long-form discussions between project developers. >> >> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue >> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years >> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does >> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would >> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible >> solutions. >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious first choice here. I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This is for a couple reasons: 1. I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. 2. E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on. In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense of what an active system looks like. Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. Best, -matt > >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create >> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer >> >> that >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to >> pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that >> would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. >> >> > >> >> > Joris >> >> > >> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer > >> >> >> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev >> >> >> >> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd > wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData >> conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat >> in the direction of what you are asking for. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney >> wrote: >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > hi folks, >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all >> think >> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve >> other >> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation >> away >> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer >> conferences the >> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, >> but I >> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, >> and >> >> >>>> > preferably in public. >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > - Wes >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From njs at pobox.com Wed Dec 26 18:59:38 2018 From: njs at pobox.com (Nathaniel Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:59:38 -0800 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of the python governance discussion happened My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for taking the temperature of the community during the governance discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / ...), ... -n On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin wrote: > > >>> Copying the mailing list > > > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. > >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for >>> long-form discussions between project developers. >>> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible >>> solutions. > > > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious first choice here. > > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This is for a couple reasons: > > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on. > > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense of what an active system looks like. > > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? > > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. > > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. > > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. > > Best, > -matt >>> >>> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer >>> >> that >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. >>> >> > >>> >> > Joris >>> >> > >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer >> >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd >> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > - Wes >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev -- Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org From andy.terrel at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 22:40:19 2018 From: andy.terrel at gmail.com (Andy Ray Terrel) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 21:40:19 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos but there is not much dictating how I manage these. -- Andy On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: > > - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust > - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for > python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of > the python governance discussion happened > > My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment > compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like > multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation > tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts > of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for > taking the temperature of the community during the governance > discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you > joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / > email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / > ...), ... > > -n > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin > wrote: > > > > > >>> Copying the mailing list > > > > > > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. > > > >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's > >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for > >>> long-form discussions between project developers. > >>> > >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue > >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years > >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does > >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would > >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible > >>> solutions. > > > > > > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious first > choice here. > > > > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This is > for a couple reasons: > > > > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses > all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy > conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I > find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that > includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range > cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term > value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to > them, and so on. > > > > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used > more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes > is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense > of what an active system looks like. > > > > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader set > of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as > well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm > not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe > the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? > > > > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is > particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting > points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. > > > > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about > discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". > Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently > but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. > > > > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. Just > wanted to throw out some other thoughts. > > > > Best, > > -matt > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create > >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others > prefer > >>> >> that > >>> >> > >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related > to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think > that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Joris > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd < > william.ayd at icloud.com wrote: > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData > conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat > in the direction of what you are asking for. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >> >>>> > > >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, > >>> >> >>>> > > >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all > think > >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that > involve other > >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of > separation away > >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is > there > >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? > >>> >> >>>> > > >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer > conferences the > >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and > writing, but I > >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about > things, and > >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. > >>> >> >>>> > > >>> >> >>>> > - Wes > >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pandas-dev mailing list > > Pandas-dev at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > > -- > Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 23:35:14 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 22:35:14 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Andy pydata at googlegroups.com has 2734 members. Based on recent traffic it is really a user / Q&A mailing list, not a place for the maintainers/steering committees of major projects to speak publicly with one another (where discussions are public, archived, searchable). I have observed that there are many discussions happening between the developers of projects on an ad hoc basis and on ad hoc communication channels (both private and public). Partly there is no obvious place for, e.g., the developers of pandas and dask to have a public discussion, that is not necessarily "partisan" to one of those projects. As another example issue, there is not an obvious place to raise issues. Back in the day I think numpy-discussion or scipy-user used to partly serve this purpose, but the centers of gravity have shifted. - Wes On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM Andy Ray Terrel wrote: > > I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? > > It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos but there is not much dictating how I manage these. > > -- Andy > > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> >> Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: >> >> - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust >> - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for >> python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of >> the python governance discussion happened >> >> My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment >> compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like >> multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation >> tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts >> of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for >> taking the temperature of the community during the governance >> discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you >> joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / >> email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / >> ...), ... >> >> -n >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin wrote: >> > >> > >> >>> Copying the mailing list >> > >> > >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. >> > >> >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's >> >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for >> >>> long-form discussions between project developers. >> >>> >> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue >> >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years >> >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does >> >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would >> >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible >> >>> solutions. >> > >> > >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious first choice here. >> > >> > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This is for a couple reasons: >> > >> > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. >> > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on. >> > >> > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense of what an active system looks like. >> > >> > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? >> > >> > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. >> > >> > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. >> > >> > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. >> > >> > Best, >> > -matt >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create >> >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer >> >>> >> that >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Joris >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer > >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd > >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >> >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >> >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >> >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >> >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >> >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >> >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >> >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > - Wes >> >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 03:32:51 2018 From: jorisvandenbossche at gmail.com (Joris Van den Bossche) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:32:51 +0100 Subject: [Pandas-dev] European pandas contributors meeting in London In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For those not clicking on the link, note that the event has moved to one week later: Feb 1-3, 2019 Op wo 26 dec. 2018 om 17:52 schreef Marc Garcia : > Hi there, > > We've got all ready to announce the pandas contributors meeting I > mentioned earlier. This is the website for the event, which I'm planning to > make public tomorrow: https://python-sprints.github.io/europandas2019/ > > If anyone has any comment about it, please let me know. Including the > schedule, the registration process, the texts, images, if you want to speak > or attend... I hope we can live stream the Friday sessions, so they are > available to everybody interested. > > About the sprints, I expect a small group of first-timers (e.g. 5/10 > people). But it should be mainly for experienced contributors of pandas and > the ecosystem. So, I don't expect exceptional activity in GitHub. If anyone > has ideas regarding the sprints (topics to work on...). They are more than > welcome. > > Wes pointed out about the event, that it shouldn't replace the regular > online communications. And that nobody should feel excluded from > participating in the discussions for not attending in-person. I totally > agree, and even more being a regional event. For everybody participating, > please remember to move the relevant discussions online during or after the > event. Whether they are internal to pandas, or between projects. > > Cheers! > > On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:18 PM Marc Garcia wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> We're planning to have a meeting for the pandas contributors in Europe >> (obviously open to anyone who wants to fly to London). The day will >> probably be from the 25 to the 27 of January. On Friday afternoon we could >> have an event with talks and may be an interactive session with users to >> answer their questions and get their feedback. And Saturday and Sunday for >> sprints (also open to the public). >> >> Everything is yet to be confirmed, and ideas are more than welcome. Just >> wanted to send an early message, to see if someone else wants to >> participate, get involved or propose ideas (so far we discussed it with >> Joris and Pietro, I'm not aware of anyone else in Europe). Just get in >> touch. >> >> Cheers, >> Marc >> > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andy.terrel at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 09:26:17 2018 From: andy.terrel at gmail.com (Andy Ray Terrel) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 08:26:17 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would recommend we set up a site dev.pydata.org that tells the folks where conversations are happening. While mailing lists are great we might consider just having a github issue tracker set up for cross ecosystem bugs or initiatives. I was planning on decommisionning the numfocus discourse and zulip server as they didn't really have great use. Chris Holdgraf suggested using Topic Box, but user based pricing isn't a great option for open source development. Anywho, both dask and pandas are part of the NumFOCUS projects ecosystem so I'm happy to set anything up for ya'll. -- Andy On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:35 PM Wes McKinney wrote: > @Andy > > pydata at googlegroups.com has 2734 members. Based on recent traffic it > is really a user / Q&A mailing list, not a place for the > maintainers/steering committees of major projects to speak publicly > with one another (where discussions are public, archived, searchable). > I have observed that there are many discussions happening between the > developers of projects on an ad hoc basis and on ad hoc communication > channels (both private and public). Partly there is no obvious place > for, e.g., the developers of pandas and dask to have a public > discussion, that is not necessarily "partisan" to one of those > projects. > > As another example issue, there is not an obvious place to raise > issues. Back in the day I think numpy-discussion or scipy-user used to > partly serve this purpose, but the centers of gravity have shifted. > > - Wes > > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM Andy Ray Terrel > wrote: > > > > I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since > pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the > PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder > if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? > > > > It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering > committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same > for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos > but there is not much dictating how I manage these. > > > > -- Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > >> > >> Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: > >> > >> - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust > >> - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for > >> python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of > >> the python governance discussion happened > >> > >> My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment > >> compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like > >> multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation > >> tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts > >> of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for > >> taking the temperature of the community during the governance > >> discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you > >> joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / > >> email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / > >> ...), ... > >> > >> -n > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin > wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> >>> Copying the mailing list > >> > > >> > > >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. > >> > > >> >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's > >> >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for > >> >>> long-form discussions between project developers. > >> >>> > >> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably > overdue > >> >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years > >> >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination > does > >> >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would > >> >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible > >> >>> solutions. > >> > > >> > > >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious > first choice here. > >> > > >> > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This > is for a couple reasons: > >> > > >> > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that > encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine > lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, > while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a > service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > >> > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range > cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term > value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to > them, and so on. > >> > > >> > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used > more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes > is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense > of what an active system looks like. > >> > > >> > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader > set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as > well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm > not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe > the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? > >> > > >> > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither > is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible > starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. > >> > > >> > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about > discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". > Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently > but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. > >> > > >> > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. > Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > -matt > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create > >> >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others > prefer > >> >>> >> that > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way > related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I > think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > Joris > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer < > shoyer at gmail.com: > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd < > william.ayd at icloud.com wrote: > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData > conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat > in the direction of what you are asking for. > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, > >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you > all think > >> >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that > involve other > >> >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of > separation away > >> >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is > there > >> >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? > >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer > conferences the > >> >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and > writing, but I > >> >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about > things, and > >> >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. > >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >>> >> >>>> > - Wes > >> >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pandas-dev mailing list > > Pandas-dev at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 11:12:40 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 08:12:40 -0800 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Having dev.pydata.org sounds fine to me. I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. It is public, archival, and append-only. GitHub issues are non-archival and comments can be edited or deleted. On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 6:26 AM Andy Ray Terrel wrote: > > I would recommend we set up a site dev.pydata.org that tells the folks where conversations are happening. While mailing lists are great we might consider just having a github issue tracker set up for cross ecosystem bugs or initiatives. I was planning on decommisionning the numfocus discourse and zulip server as they didn't really have great use. Chris Holdgraf suggested using Topic Box, but user based pricing isn't a great option for open source development. > > Anywho, both dask and pandas are part of the NumFOCUS projects ecosystem so I'm happy to set anything up for ya'll. > > -- Andy > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:35 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> @Andy >> >> pydata at googlegroups.com has 2734 members. Based on recent traffic it >> is really a user / Q&A mailing list, not a place for the >> maintainers/steering committees of major projects to speak publicly >> with one another (where discussions are public, archived, searchable). >> I have observed that there are many discussions happening between the >> developers of projects on an ad hoc basis and on ad hoc communication >> channels (both private and public). Partly there is no obvious place >> for, e.g., the developers of pandas and dask to have a public >> discussion, that is not necessarily "partisan" to one of those >> projects. >> >> As another example issue, there is not an obvious place to raise >> issues. Back in the day I think numpy-discussion or scipy-user used to >> partly serve this purpose, but the centers of gravity have shifted. >> >> - Wes >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM Andy Ray Terrel wrote: >> > >> > I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? >> > >> > It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos but there is not much dictating how I manage these. >> > >> > -- Andy >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: >> >> >> >> - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust >> >> - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for >> >> python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of >> >> the python governance discussion happened >> >> >> >> My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment >> >> compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like >> >> multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation >> >> tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts >> >> of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for >> >> taking the temperature of the community during the governance >> >> discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you >> >> joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / >> >> email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / >> >> ...), ... >> >> >> >> -n >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >>> Copying the mailing list >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. >> >> > >> >> >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's >> >> >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for >> >> >>> long-form discussions between project developers. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue >> >> >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years >> >> >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does >> >> >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would >> >> >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible >> >> >>> solutions. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious first choice here. >> >> > >> >> > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This is for a couple reasons: >> >> > >> >> > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. >> >> > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on. >> >> > >> >> > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense of what an active system looks like. >> >> > >> >> > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? >> >> > >> >> > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. >> >> > >> >> > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. >> >> > >> >> > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. >> >> > >> >> > Best, >> >> > -matt >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create >> >> >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer >> >> >>> >> that >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche >> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >> > Joris >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer > >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd > >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. >> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >> >> >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >> >> >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >> >> >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >> >> >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >> >> >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >> >> >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >> >> >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > - Wes >> >> >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From mrocklin at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 17:58:36 2018 From: mrocklin at gmail.com (Matthew Rocklin) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 14:58:36 -0800 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. There were some issues raised before: 1. *I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. * 2. *E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on.* And also some benefits of discourse raised by Nathaniel which might be turned around to be interpreted as concerns with e-mail. *My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustmentcompared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features likemulti-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderationtools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split partsof it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful fortaking the temperature of the community during the governancediscussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before youjoined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything /email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly /...), ...* > It is public, archival, and append-only. GitHub issues are non-archival and comments can be edited or deleted. That's certainly true of GitHub issues. I suspect that it's also true of Discourse (though I'd have to go through the docs to make sure that it wasn't possible to turn it off). From my perspective the (in)ability to edit or delete comments isn't a big deal. I'm not particularly concerned with people modifying history in a nefarious way. Though perhaps my viewpoint here is naive. I haven't yet run into this issue in our community. I think that the biggest benefit to using an e-mail list is that it's a well known technology with a low barrier to adoption. I anticipate two likely failure modes for e-mail and discourse respectively: - EMail: conversation is too diffuse so that people sign up, get bored listening to things that don't interest them, and then stop notifications. The pydata mailing list ends up being used by small subsets of the community, but not the community as a whole. - Discourse: it's too new/unknown so that no one signs up and it doesn't reach critical mass. (this seems to be happening with Jupyter's discourse today?) There are lots of other pros and cons to each, obviously, but those two outcomes are, I think, the most troublesome. On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM Wes McKinney wrote: > Having dev.pydata.org sounds fine to me. > > I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. It is public, archival, > and append-only. GitHub issues are non-archival and comments can be > edited or deleted. > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 6:26 AM Andy Ray Terrel > wrote: > > > > I would recommend we set up a site dev.pydata.org that tells the folks > where conversations are happening. While mailing lists are great we might > consider just having a github issue tracker set up for cross ecosystem bugs > or initiatives. I was planning on decommisionning the numfocus discourse > and zulip server as they didn't really have great use. Chris Holdgraf > suggested using Topic Box, but user based pricing isn't a great option for > open source development. > > > > Anywho, both dask and pandas are part of the NumFOCUS projects ecosystem > so I'm happy to set anything up for ya'll. > > > > -- Andy > > > > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:35 PM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> > >> @Andy > >> > >> pydata at googlegroups.com has 2734 members. Based on recent traffic it > >> is really a user / Q&A mailing list, not a place for the > >> maintainers/steering committees of major projects to speak publicly > >> with one another (where discussions are public, archived, searchable). > >> I have observed that there are many discussions happening between the > >> developers of projects on an ad hoc basis and on ad hoc communication > >> channels (both private and public). Partly there is no obvious place > >> for, e.g., the developers of pandas and dask to have a public > >> discussion, that is not necessarily "partisan" to one of those > >> projects. > >> > >> As another example issue, there is not an obvious place to raise > >> issues. Back in the day I think numpy-discussion or scipy-user used to > >> partly serve this purpose, but the centers of gravity have shifted. > >> > >> - Wes > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM Andy Ray Terrel > wrote: > >> > > >> > I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since > pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the > PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder > if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? > >> > > >> > It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering > committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same > for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos > but there is not much dictating how I manage these. > >> > > >> > -- Andy > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: > >> >> > >> >> - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust > >> >> - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for > >> >> python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of > >> >> the python governance discussion happened > >> >> > >> >> My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment > >> >> compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like > >> >> multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation > >> >> tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split > parts > >> >> of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for > >> >> taking the temperature of the community during the governance > >> >> discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before > you > >> >> joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / > >> >> email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / > >> >> ...), ... > >> >> > >> >> -n > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >>> Copying the mailing list > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. > >> >> > > >> >> >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in > PyTorch's > >> >> >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place > for > >> >> >>> long-form discussions between project developers. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably > overdue > >> >> >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years > >> >> >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination > does > >> >> >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It > would > >> >> >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible > >> >> >>> solutions. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious > first choice here. > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. > This is for a couple reasons: > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that > encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine > lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, > while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a > service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > >> >> > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing > long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have > long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, > subscribe to them, and so on. > >> >> > > >> >> > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is > used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what > Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a > sense of what an active system looks like. > >> >> > > >> >> > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader > set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as > well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm > not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe > the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? > >> >> > > >> >> > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but > neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible > starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. > >> >> > > >> >> > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about > discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". > Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently > but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. > >> >> > > >> >> > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be > great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. > >> >> > > >> >> > Best, > >> >> > -matt > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create > >> >> >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if > others prefer > >> >> >>> >> that > >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche > >> >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >> >>> >> > > >> >> >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way > related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I > think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. > >> >> >>> >> > > >> >> >>> >> > Joris > >> >> >>> >> > > >> >> >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer < > shoyer at gmail.com: > >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev > >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. > >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels > >> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd < > william.ayd at icloud.com wrote: > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData > conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat > in the direction of what you are asking for. > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what > you all think > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions > that involve other > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of > separation away > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. > Is there > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer > conferences the > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and > writing, but I > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about > things, and > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > - Wes > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wesmckinn at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 12:28:17 2018 From: wesmckinn at gmail.com (Wes McKinney) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 11:28:17 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As a discussion list intended for project developers, I am not anticipating so much noise that people become disengaged. If we were creating a forum to collect user feedback, that would be a little bit different. I'm more looking to encourage the sharing of more high level project planning, roadmaps and goals, fund raising activities, and other matters related to the health and growth of the major community projects. It would be really useful for each project to state a list of goals for some future horizon (e.g. 1 year). I have observed that some of these cross-project discussions often only happen in person, or on an ad hoc basis on GitHub issues. User feedback can be helpful, but in practice most projects function as "do-ocracies" where opinions are roughly valued proportional to project contributions. It would also be useful to be able to point users to historical discussions amongst project developers when there are questions or concerns. My anecdotal experience is that the lack of visible / centralized cross-project discussions and roadmapping / planning / goal discussion has at times led to user (or developer) confusion about what different groups of developers are trying to accomplish. The concerns raised seem to be mostly about optimizing large-scale communications. Let's first see if there is communication that needs to be optimized. Even if we add additional tools to facilitate communications, I think we still need a mailing list. - Wes On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:58 PM Matthew Rocklin wrote: > > > I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. > > There were some issues raised before: > > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on. > > And also some benefits of discourse raised by Nathaniel which might be turned around to be interpreted as concerns with e-mail. > > My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment > compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like > multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation > tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts > of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for > taking the temperature of the community during the governance > discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you > joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / > email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / > ...), ... > > > It is public, archival, and append-only. GitHub issues are non-archival and comments can be edited or deleted. > > That's certainly true of GitHub issues. I suspect that it's also true of Discourse (though I'd have to go through the docs to make sure that it wasn't possible to turn it off). From my perspective the (in)ability to edit or delete comments isn't a big deal. I'm not particularly concerned with people modifying history in a nefarious way. Though perhaps my viewpoint here is naive. I haven't yet run into this issue in our community. > > I think that the biggest benefit to using an e-mail list is that it's a well known technology with a low barrier to adoption. > > I anticipate two likely failure modes for e-mail and discourse respectively: > > EMail: conversation is too diffuse so that people sign up, get bored listening to things that don't interest them, and then stop notifications. The pydata mailing list ends up being used by small subsets of the community, but not the community as a whole. > Discourse: it's too new/unknown so that no one signs up and it doesn't reach critical mass. (this seems to be happening with Jupyter's discourse today?) > > There are lots of other pros and cons to each, obviously, but those two outcomes are, I think, the most troublesome. > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> Having dev.pydata.org sounds fine to me. >> >> I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. It is public, archival, >> and append-only. GitHub issues are non-archival and comments can be >> edited or deleted. >> >> On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 6:26 AM Andy Ray Terrel wrote: >> > >> > I would recommend we set up a site dev.pydata.org that tells the folks where conversations are happening. While mailing lists are great we might consider just having a github issue tracker set up for cross ecosystem bugs or initiatives. I was planning on decommisionning the numfocus discourse and zulip server as they didn't really have great use. Chris Holdgraf suggested using Topic Box, but user based pricing isn't a great option for open source development. >> > >> > Anywho, both dask and pandas are part of the NumFOCUS projects ecosystem so I'm happy to set anything up for ya'll. >> > >> > -- Andy >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:35 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >> >> @Andy >> >> >> >> pydata at googlegroups.com has 2734 members. Based on recent traffic it >> >> is really a user / Q&A mailing list, not a place for the >> >> maintainers/steering committees of major projects to speak publicly >> >> with one another (where discussions are public, archived, searchable). >> >> I have observed that there are many discussions happening between the >> >> developers of projects on an ad hoc basis and on ad hoc communication >> >> channels (both private and public). Partly there is no obvious place >> >> for, e.g., the developers of pandas and dask to have a public >> >> discussion, that is not necessarily "partisan" to one of those >> >> projects. >> >> >> >> As another example issue, there is not an obvious place to raise >> >> issues. Back in the day I think numpy-discussion or scipy-user used to >> >> partly serve this purpose, but the centers of gravity have shifted. >> >> >> >> - Wes >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM Andy Ray Terrel wrote: >> >> > >> >> > I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? >> >> > >> >> > It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos but there is not much dictating how I manage these. >> >> > >> >> > -- Andy >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: >> >> >> >> >> >> - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust >> >> >> - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for >> >> >> python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton of >> >> >> the python governance discussion happened >> >> >> >> >> >> My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment >> >> >> compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like >> >> >> multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation >> >> >> tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts >> >> >> of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for >> >> >> taking the temperature of the community during the governance >> >> >> discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you >> >> >> joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / >> >> >> email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / >> >> >> ...), ... >> >> >> >> >> >> -n >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Copying the mailing list >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in PyTorch's >> >> >> >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a place for >> >> >> >>> long-form discussions between project developers. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is probably overdue >> >> >> >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years >> >> >> >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of coordination does >> >> >> >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. It would >> >> >> >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and possible >> >> >> >>> solutions. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the obvious first choice here. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. This is for a couple reasons: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. >> >> >> > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to them, and so on. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it is used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than what Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could get a sense of what an active system looks like. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a broader set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these topics as well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed here. I'm not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an e-mail to maybe the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Best, >> >> >> > -matt >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create >> >> >> >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if others prefer >> >> >> >>> >> that >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche >> >> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> > Joris >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer > >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication channels >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd > >> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat in the direction of what you are asking for. >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what you all think >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions that involve other >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of separation away >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or something. Is there >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to fewer conferences the >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding and writing, but I >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) about things, and >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > - Wes >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Pandas-dev mailing list >> >> > Pandas-dev at python.org >> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev From andy.terrel at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 13:07:37 2018 From: andy.terrel at gmail.com (Andy Ray Terrel) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 12:07:37 -0600 Subject: [Pandas-dev] Mailing list for Python data analytics ecosystem developers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 11:28 AM Wes McKinney wrote: > As a discussion list intended for project developers, I am not > anticipating so much noise that people become disengaged. If we were > creating a forum to collect user feedback, that would be a little bit > different. I'm more looking to encourage the sharing of more high > level project planning, roadmaps and goals, fund raising activities, > and other matters related to the health and growth of the major > community projects. It would be really useful for each project to > state a list of goals for some future horizon (e.g. 1 year). > > I have observed that some of these cross-project discussions often > only happen in person, or on an ad hoc basis on GitHub issues. > > User feedback can be helpful, but in practice most projects function > as "do-ocracies" where opinions are roughly valued proportional to > project contributions. > > It would also be useful to be able to point users to historical > discussions amongst project developers when there are questions or > concerns. My anecdotal experience is that the lack of visible / > centralized cross-project discussions and roadmapping / planning / > goal discussion has at times led to user (or developer) confusion > about what different groups of developers are trying to accomplish. > > The concerns raised seem to be mostly about optimizing large-scale > communications. Let's first see if there is communication that needs > to be optimized. Even if we add additional tools to facilitate > communications, I think we still need a mailing list. > > Have we decided which mailing list we desire? I forgot we could also just make it dev at pydata.org if we like. In general I think, we should write up a governance document on pydata as a whole. - Andy > - Wes > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:58 PM Matthew Rocklin > wrote: > > > > > I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. > > > > There were some issues raised before: > > > > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that encompasses > all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine lengthy > conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, while I > find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a service that > includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing long-range > cross-project coordination then those conversations might have long term > value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, subscribe to > them, and so on. > > > > And also some benefits of discourse raised by Nathaniel which might be > turned around to be interpreted as concerns with e-mail. > > > > My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment > > compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features like > > multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid moderation > > tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split parts > > of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful for > > taking the temperature of the community during the governance > > discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted before you > > joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / > > email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / > > ...), ... > > > > > It is public, archival, and append-only. GitHub issues are > non-archival and comments can be edited or deleted. > > > > That's certainly true of GitHub issues. I suspect that it's also true > of Discourse (though I'd have to go through the docs to make sure that it > wasn't possible to turn it off). From my perspective the (in)ability to > edit or delete comments isn't a big deal. I'm not particularly concerned > with people modifying history in a nefarious way. Though perhaps my > viewpoint here is naive. I haven't yet run into this issue in our > community. > > > > I think that the biggest benefit to using an e-mail list is that it's a > well known technology with a low barrier to adoption. > > > > I anticipate two likely failure modes for e-mail and discourse > respectively: > > > > EMail: conversation is too diffuse so that people sign up, get bored > listening to things that don't interest them, and then stop notifications. > The pydata mailing list ends up being used by small subsets of the > community, but not the community as a whole. > > Discourse: it's too new/unknown so that no one signs up and it doesn't > reach critical mass. (this seems to be happening with Jupyter's discourse > today?) > > > > There are lots of other pros and cons to each, obviously, but those two > outcomes are, I think, the most troublesome. > > > > On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 8:13 AM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> > >> Having dev.pydata.org sounds fine to me. > >> > >> I don't see what is wrong with using e-mail. It is public, archival, > >> and append-only. GitHub issues are non-archival and comments can be > >> edited or deleted. > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 6:26 AM Andy Ray Terrel > wrote: > >> > > >> > I would recommend we set up a site dev.pydata.org that tells the > folks where conversations are happening. While mailing lists are great we > might consider just having a github issue tracker set up for cross > ecosystem bugs or initiatives. I was planning on decommisionning the > numfocus discourse and zulip server as they didn't really have great use. > Chris Holdgraf suggested using Topic Box, but user based pricing isn't a > great option for open source development. > >> > > >> > Anywho, both dask and pandas are part of the NumFOCUS projects > ecosystem so I'm happy to set anything up for ya'll. > >> > > >> > -- Andy > >> > > >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:35 PM Wes McKinney > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> @Andy > >> >> > >> >> pydata at googlegroups.com has 2734 members. Based on recent traffic it > >> >> is really a user / Q&A mailing list, not a place for the > >> >> maintainers/steering committees of major projects to speak publicly > >> >> with one another (where discussions are public, archived, > searchable). > >> >> I have observed that there are many discussions happening between the > >> >> developers of projects on an ad hoc basis and on ad hoc communication > >> >> channels (both private and public). Partly there is no obvious place > >> >> for, e.g., the developers of pandas and dask to have a public > >> >> discussion, that is not necessarily "partisan" to one of those > >> >> projects. > >> >> > >> >> As another example issue, there is not an obvious place to raise > >> >> issues. Back in the day I think numpy-discussion or scipy-user used > to > >> >> partly serve this purpose, but the centers of gravity have shifted. > >> >> > >> >> - Wes > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM Andy Ray Terrel < > andy.terrel at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm not completely clear what is being asked for since > pydata at googlegroups.com already exists. Since NumFOCUS is promoting the > PyData conference and helping build the brand for the ecosystem, I wonder > if a home like pydata-dev at numfocus.org would be interesting for folks? > >> >> > > >> >> > It is also my understanding that there will be a fuller steering > committee set up for the conferences next year. I propose we do the same > for the technical structure. As is, I manage the website and github repos > but there is not much dictating how I manage these. > >> >> > > >> >> > -- Andy > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:00 PM Nathaniel Smith > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Other examples of discourse used for dev discussion include: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> - https://internals.rust-lang.org/ -- main dev forum for rust > >> >> >> - https://discuss.python.org/ -- potential replacement for > >> >> >> python-{committers,dev,users}, still experimental but where a ton > of > >> >> >> the python governance discussion happened > >> >> >> > >> >> >> My impression so far is that discourse takes a bit of adjustment > >> >> >> compared to mailing lists, but it has a lot of valuable features > like > >> >> >> multi-quoting, markdown (code blocks, links, ...), solid > moderation > >> >> >> tools (e.g. if a discussion diverges you can retroactively split > parts > >> >> >> of it out into a new topic), polls (these were incredibly useful > for > >> >> >> taking the temperature of the community during the governance > >> >> >> discussions), ability to reply to messages that were posted > before you > >> >> >> joined the list, configurable notifications (email me everything / > >> >> >> email me when a new topic is created / email me a summary weekly / > >> >> >> ...), ... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -n > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 3:41 PM Matthew Rocklin < > mrocklin at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >>> Copying the mailing list > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Whoops! E-mail fail on my part. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >>> Discourse is interesting. It seems to be used (at least in > PyTorch's > >> >> >> >>> case) as more of a modern message board for users than a > place for > >> >> >> >>> long-form discussions between project developers. > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> IMHO having a cross-project developer mailing list is > probably overdue > >> >> >> >>> -- I think we can do a better job the next couple of years > >> >> >> >>> coordinating (colluding?) with each other. A lot of > coordination does > >> >> >> >>> of course in private, project-level, or other ad-hoc basis. > It would > >> >> >> >>> help to be able to discuss ecosystem-level problems and > possible > >> >> >> >>> solutions. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Entirely agreed. And I think that an e-mail list is the > obvious first choice here. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I'm bringing up discourse as an alternative for consideration. > This is for a couple reasons: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I'm slightly concerned that a broad ranging e-mail list that > encompasses all of PyData would get noisy. For example I can imagine > lengthy conversations on visualization or probabalistic programming that, > while I find important, would likely want to take a pass on. Having a > service that includes tags and subscription to those tags may have value. > >> >> >> > E-mail list archives tend to collect dust. If we're doing > long-range cross-project coordination then those conversations might have > long term value. We might want to cross reference them, upvote them, > subscribe to them, and so on. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > In regards to PyTorch's discuss in particular I agree that it > is used more as a user forum, which I agree is a different use case than > what Wes is proposing here. I mostly pointed to it so that people could > get a sense of what an active system looks like. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regardless, I encourage this conversation to happen with a > broader set of people. I believe that other groups are considering these > topics as well and may have thoughts beyond those that have been expressed > here. I'm not sure how best to bootstrap this process, other than an > e-mail to maybe the NumFOCUS mailing list and perhaps a tweet? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > There's both a NumFOCUS discourse and zulip, I believe, but > neither is particularly active. Whether those should be considered possible > starting points or cautionary tales I leave to y'all. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Yeah, I should also amend my previous statement from "how about > discourse?" to "is there anything more appropriate than an e-mail list?". > Discourse is the service around which I've seen the most activity recently > but I agree that in our community, it hasn't really taken off that well. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > And just to reiterate, I think that an e-mail list would be > great. Just wanted to throw out some other thoughts. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Best, > >> >> >> > -matt > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> I sent a request to postmaster @ python.o to create > >> >> >> >>> >> pydata-dev at python.org. We can also use google groups if > others prefer > >> >> >> >>> >> that > >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 3:59 PM Joris Van den Bossche > >> >> >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >> > > >> >> >> >>> >> > Giving the growing ecosysten of data tools (in some way > related to pandas, but not pandas itself), I am also +1 on such a list. I > think that would be welcome, and not aware of anything existing. > >> >> >> >>> >> > > >> >> >> >>> >> > Joris > >> >> >> >>> >> > > >> >> >> >>> >> > Op di 25 dec. 2018 02:19 schreef Stephan Hoyer < > shoyer at gmail.com: > >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> +1 for pydata-dev > >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> I don't think there's a list quite like this today. > >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:11 PM Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> I'm talking about public archived communication > channels > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 7:57 PM William Ayd < > william.ayd at icloud.com wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> What do you think is missing from the existing PyData > conferences? I?ve only been to the one in LA but it seemed to be somewhat > in the direction of what you are asking for. > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Wes McKinney < > wesmckinn at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > hi folks, > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Prompted by some recent discussions I wondered what > you all think > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > would be the best venue to have public discussions > that involve other > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > open source projects that are generally 1 degree of > separation away > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > from pandas. Sort of like "pydata-dev", or > something. Is there > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > something like this already that I just missed? > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > As context, I'm trying to travel less and go to > fewer conferences the > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > next couple of years, and spend more time coding > and writing, but I > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > still want to talk with people (asynchronously) > about things, and > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > preferably in public. > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > - Wes > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> >>> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> >>> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> >>> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> >>> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> >>> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >>> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> >>> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > Pandas-dev mailing list > >> >> > Pandas-dev at python.org > >> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pandas-dev mailing list > >> Pandas-dev at python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: