[Numpy-discussion] Warning on http://scipy.org/ about binary incompatibility ?

[josef.pktd at gmail.com]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Dag Sverre Seljebotn
<dagss at student.matnat.uio.no> wrote:
> josef.pktd at gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:39 AM, David Cournapeau <david at silveregg.co.jp> wrote:
>>
>>> Charles R Harris wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 6:20 PM, David Cournapeau <david at silveregg.co.jp
>>>> <mailto:david at silveregg.co.jp>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     josef.pktd at gmail.com <mailto:josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>      > Can we/someone add a warning on the front page http://scipy.org/
>>>>      > (maybe under news for numpy download) about incompatibility of the
>>>>      > binaries on sourceforge of scipy <=0.7.1 with numpy 1.4.0 ?
>>>>
>>>>     It seems that it will be quite difficult to fix the issue without
>>>>     removing something (I tried to use datetime as user types, but this
>>>>     opened a can of worms), so I am (quite reluctantly ) coming to the
>>>>     conclusion we should just bite the bullet and change the ABI number (so
>>>>     that importing anything will fail instead of crashing randomly).
>>>>
>>>>     Something like numpy 1.4.0.1, which would just have a different ABI
>>>>     number than 1.4.0, without anything else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think it would be better to make this change in 1.4 rather
>>>> than 1.5?
>>>>
>>> Because then any extension fails to import with a clear message instead
>>> of crashing as it does now. It does not matter much if you know the
>>> crash is coming from an incompatible ABI, but it does if you don't :)
>>>
>>
>> I thought we could get away with a small binary incompatibility,
>> without rebuilding everything. I'm using matplotlib although not
>> extensively and it didn't crash in a while. (I don't remember which
>> version of scipy I used for the last time when I had a crashing
>> script.)
>>
> This made my hairs stand up on my back...

Maybe this wasn't well phrased, with "we" I meant users like myself,
and for example not the numpy developers.
I'm strongly in favor of warnings, but not of enforced not running at all.

For example I don't know whether h5py would work with numpy 1.4 if
cython (I think) wouldn't prevent me from importing it.

If I had the option I would stick with numpy 1.3 until the mess is
cleared up and other packages are available in xxx-numpy1.4.x
versions.

Cheers,

Josef

>
> Even if you check the "widely used" extensions for usecases which are
> affected by the breakage, you'll never get to check all custom
> propriotary C code around using NumPy, and their authors might easily
> miss this thread.
>
> In face of this, I actually think the current behaviour of Cython is a
> lucky accident, as all Cython code refuse to run with upgraded NumPy
> without being recompiled :-)
>
> (Only joking though; the next version of Cython will work across ABI
> versions).
>
> Dag Sverre
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