From szybalski at gmail.com Tue Feb 22 23:24:10 2022 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 22:24:10 -0600 Subject: [moin-user] moinmoin 2.0 stable release Message-ID: Hello, I'm writing on behalf of the community to request that effective immediately moinmoin 2.0 becomes a stable version and is released as an official version moving forward. The request does not come easy but we believe it's necessary. Below I'll share two points that we all should get behind for the good of moinmoin. I hope this email finds all developers and contributes well, and we all focus our efforts on providing a conversion path for all of us from moin 1.x to 2.x First reason why moinmoin 2.0 - Python2 no longer ships with debian stable, and as of release its current OS moin was removed. This means unless the project converts to moinmoin2 and right away gets added to debian-backports, we are at risk of losing a large part of our user base. There are number of prominent moinmoin installs, with I think the largest one being wiki.debian.org The second reason why moinmoin 2.0 - Community needs to unify on one task. For many years we have been working on moin2.0 while others who continued to support moin 1.9. With 2.0 release as stable the moin project takes all the developer, contributor, userbase, friendly community that helps others moin users and puts all the energy behind one development branch. We hope that with 2.0 union we can gain momentum again with making moin the best wiki software for technical communities and others. I would like to ask the group here to do the following: - Announce that MoinMoin 2.0 is now stable and moving forward the goto for any new installs. - Make moinmoin 1.9 "old stable" and put it in maintenance mode. Security patches only. - Request that main moinmoin.in page features a "conversion from 1.9 to 2.0 page where all sysadmins are able to convert their current instances and content to 2.0. - I also ask the community to support the conversion efforts, and support anyone with helpful guidance on how to do it, the best case copy paste guide, and create a smoothest upgrade process. - We need help from those who have worked on debian.org and can push the moinmoin2 to debian backports. Engage, ask for help, and report on progress. (They will also need migration instructions or scripts) Let's join the python3 world and celebrate moinmoin2.0 as our new goto version with all the pluses and challenges, and let's unify our community towards one branch for the future. Thank you Lucas Szybalski A 15 year moin host and user who wants moin, the best wiki to continue to grow. p.s please share to whom it may concern as well and help them convert to 2.x -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at boddie.org.uk Wed Feb 23 12:30:50 2022 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 18:30:50 +0100 Subject: [moin-user] moinmoin 2.0 stable release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2284468.Tqf7axnP8n@jason> On Wednesday, 23 February 2022 05:24:10 CET Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > Hello, > I'm writing on behalf of the community to request that effective > immediately moinmoin 2.0 becomes a stable version and is released as an > official version moving forward. > > The request does not come easy but we believe it's necessary. > Below I'll share two points that we all should get behind for the good of > moinmoin. I hope this email finds all developers and contributes well, and > we all focus our efforts on providing a conversion path for all of us from > moin 1.x to 2.x > > First reason why moinmoin 2.0 - Python2 no longer ships with debian stable, > and as of release its current OS moin was removed. This means unless the > project converts to moinmoin2 and right away gets added to > debian-backports, we are at risk of losing a large part of our user base. > There are number of prominent moinmoin installs, with I think the largest > one being wiki.debian.org I think I noted this before, but I would like to know what Debian, the Python Software Foundation and others have in mind for their Moin sites. I know that the "top table" of the Python community probably doesn't value the Python Wiki particularly, although they did fund Moin development when the credentials management needed to be strengthened (which was slightly surprising given a tendency to otherwise play the happy technology consumer), but given the rhetoric about retiring Python 2, I find it disappointing that there is nothing to be heard from these organisations that simultaneously depend on Python 2 and yet encourage others to sweep it off the desk and into the wastebin. > The second reason why moinmoin 2.0 - Community needs to unify on one task. > For many years we have been working on moin2.0 while others who continued > to support moin 1.9. With 2.0 release as stable the moin project takes all > the developer, contributor, userbase, friendly community that helps others > moin users and puts all the energy behind one development branch. We hope > that with 2.0 union we can gain momentum again with making moin the best > wiki software for technical communities and others. Here, I largely agree and hope that it doesn't contradict anything I previously wrote. :-) There really needs to be a singular focus, and I don't think there is any developer interest in continuing with Moin 1.9. Then again, I don't see much developer interest in Moin at all, but maybe a clearer message would focus some minds once again. > I would like to ask the group here to do the following: > - Announce that MoinMoin 2.0 is now stable and moving forward the goto for > any new installs. > - Make moinmoin 1.9 "old stable" and put it in maintenance mode. Security > patches only. This is pretty much how I perceive Moin 1.9 today. Meanwhile, I guess Moin 2.0 is stable but not "feature-complete", so that isn't really so different to what you are proposing. > - Request that main moinmoin.in page features a "conversion from 1.9 to 2.0 > page where all sysadmins are able to convert their current instances and > content to 2.0. > - I also ask the community to support the conversion efforts, and support > anyone with helpful guidance on how to do it, the best case copy paste > guide, and create a smoothest upgrade process. Isn't there some kind of migration script already? Tangentially, I updated my own Moin export tool to handle the deployed filesystem layout of Moin 1.9 wikis, which I may have mentioned here or to Keith. Sorry if I forgot, Keith! :-) > - We need help from those who have worked on debian.org and can push the > moinmoin2 to debian backports. Engage, ask for help, and report on > progress. (They will also need migration instructions or scripts) Quite some time ago, I did look into Debian packaging for Moin 2.0 and quickly became bogged down in all the dependencies that weren't packaged. This is another situation where the Python developers have encouraged their own way of working largely to the detriment of the broader ecosystem. While people may enjoy virtualenvs, venvs, today's new envs, and so on, a reliance on the shifting sands of an "agile" but unstable software stack can be a hindrance to packaging for a relatively stable system. I suppose a review of this situation is possible. Debian packaging isn't particularly enjoyable, but it is probably the most effective way of bringing the software to the right audience. > Let's join the python3 world and celebrate moinmoin2.0 as our new goto > version with all the pluses and challenges, and let's unify our community > towards one branch for the future. I think that perhaps the most positive thing that could be done is just to communicate that Moin is still actively developed. On these mailing lists I don't get that impression. (And no, I don't think people should hang out on Slack, Gitter or today's messaging fad just to be able to stay informed.) > Thank you > Lucas Szybalski > A 15 year moin host and user who wants moin, the best wiki to continue to > grow. > > p.s please share to whom it may concern as well and help them convert to 2.x Thanks for writing this, Lucas! Paul From paul at boddie.org.uk Fri Feb 25 17:59:27 2022 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 23:59:27 +0100 Subject: [moin-user] moinmoin 2.0 stable release In-Reply-To: <2284468.Tqf7axnP8n@jason> References: <2284468.Tqf7axnP8n@jason> Message-ID: <27432520.gMcah2eSUd@jason> (I've added moin-devel to the recipients, and maybe moin-user can be dropped in future.) On Wednesday, 23 February 2022 18:30:50 CET Paul Boddie wrote: > On Wednesday, 23 February 2022 05:24:10 CET Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > > > - We need help from those who have worked on debian.org and can push the > > moinmoin2 to debian backports. Engage, ask for help, and report on > > progress. (They will also need migration instructions or scripts) > > Quite some time ago, I did look into Debian packaging for Moin 2.0 and > quickly became bogged down in all the dependencies that weren't packaged. > This is another situation where the Python developers have encouraged their > own way of working largely to the detriment of the broader ecosystem. While > people may enjoy virtualenvs, venvs, today's new envs, and so on, a > reliance on the shifting sands of an "agile" but unstable software stack > can be a hindrance to packaging for a relatively stable system. > > I suppose a review of this situation is possible. Debian packaging isn't > particularly enjoyable, but it is probably the most effective way of > bringing the software to the right audience. I looked into the Debian packaging requirements, and it seems to me that the following packages are needed (not being available in Debian): emeraldtree Flask-Theme flatland XStatic-CKEditor XStatic-autosize XStatic-jQuery-File-Upload XStatic-TWikiDraw-moin XStatic-AnyWikiDraw XStatic-svg-edit-moin XStatic-JQuery.TableSorter XStatic-Pygments There are already Flask and XStatic packages in Debian, but not those listed above. I have just been looking at the first three in this list, and it seems feasible to try and put together some quick packages for them, assuming that I can rediscover how to make Debian packages. Paul From renato.pontefice at gmail.com Sat Feb 26 07:10:13 2022 From: renato.pontefice at gmail.com (Renato Pontefice) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 13:10:13 +0100 Subject: [moin-user] How to install moinmoin 2 on Mac osx 12 Message-ID: <5936B06A-2944-4FD1-A0C3-38547B8E3494@gmail.com> > I would install moinmoin 2 on my Mac osx 12.2.1 > I?ve already installed python 3.10.2 (the last version) > But if I write python on the shell I receive answer from python that is ver > 2.7.18 (of course if I write Python3 I can see that is the version3.10.2 > that run) I?m wondering if it can create prob on the main 2 installation > And I?m wondering if there is a package to install the ultimate moinmoin 2 From szybalski at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 12:46:08 2022 From: szybalski at gmail.com (Lukasz Szybalski) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:46:08 -0600 Subject: [moin-user] moinmoin 2.0 stable release In-Reply-To: <27432520.gMcah2eSUd@jason> References: <2284468.Tqf7axnP8n@jason> <27432520.gMcah2eSUd@jason> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 5:01 PM Paul Boddie wrote: > (I've added moin-devel to the recipients, and maybe moin-user can be > dropped > in future.) > > On Wednesday, 23 February 2022 18:30:50 CET Paul Boddie wrote: > > On Wednesday, 23 February 2022 05:24:10 CET Lukasz Szybalski wrote: > > > > > > - We need help from those who have worked on debian.org and can push > the > > > moinmoin2 to debian backports. Engage, ask for help, and report on > > > progress. (They will also need migration instructions or scripts) > > > > Quite some time ago, I did look into Debian packaging for Moin 2.0 and > > quickly became bogged down in all the dependencies that weren't packaged. > > This is another situation where the Python developers have encouraged > their > > own way of working largely to the detriment of the broader ecosystem. > While > > people may enjoy virtualenvs, venvs, today's new envs, and so on, a > > reliance on the shifting sands of an "agile" but unstable software stack > > can be a hindrance to packaging for a relatively stable system. > > > > I suppose a review of this situation is possible. Debian packaging isn't > > particularly enjoyable, but it is probably the most effective way of > > bringing the software to the right audience. > > I looked into the Debian packaging requirements, and it seems to me that > the > following packages are needed (not being available in Debian): > Awsome. Thank you!! > emeraldtree > Flask-Theme > flatland > XStatic-CKEditor > XStatic-autosize > XStatic-jQuery-File-Upload > XStatic-TWikiDraw-moin > XStatic-AnyWikiDraw > XStatic-svg-edit-moin > XStatic-JQuery.TableSorter > XStatic-Pygments > > There are already Flask and XStatic packages in Debian, but not those > listed > above. I have just been looking at the first three in this list, and it > seems > feasible to try and put together some quick packages for them, assuming > that I > can rediscover how to make Debian packages. > If you do, and have the instructions please share, we can assist in packaging the rest. I wonder if there is somone we should cc, that has in a past packaged python packages like this, that would be able to guide us through this over the next two weeks? Thanks Lucas > > Paul > > > _______________________________________________ > moin-user mailing list > moin-user at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/moin-user > -- http://lucasmanual.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: