[Moin-devel] Page Permissions

[Nick Trout]

> From: moin-devel-admin at lists.sourceforge.net 
> [mailto:moin-devel-admin at lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas Waldmann
> Sent: January 31, 2003 3:42 AM

> I personally did never make any use ot of this XML icon. If 
> others also 
> rarely use it, it maybe should be replaced by this "show page 
> source icon".
> After a while I think these "edits to see source" would get much less.

Yes I agree.

I don't know what the XML icon is for either! Changing it to view source
is a good idea. Perhaps we could even colour code the source so users
can see which are the various formatting characters - easier to learn
and easier to read.

> > Also, teach people to do many small changes rather
> > than few big ones, even if the page might be in a state
> > they don't like for a minute or three. 
> 
> "Backup often" (wiki: save often) is a good idea anyway.
> Some browsers and also some so-called operating systems tend to crash.
> Connections get terminated, etc...

This warning feature tells you when you started editing the page so you
know how many minutes you have been editing the page.

> [mailto:moin-devel-admin at lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas Waldmann
> Sent: January 31, 2003 4:06 AM
> To: moin-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Moin-devel] Page Permissions

> One can also try to reduce colisions by making pages not too long, so 
> using a finer granularity is also maybe part of a solution.

True, but if you want 10 people to enter their details... I could have a
page for each entry but that's overkill. I should probably have made up
some kind of form macro which saved its entry to another page.

> Using linuxwiki I also try not edit pages that have been edited less 
> than 15minutes before. Often people do a 2nd, 3rd, etc. edit.

That's a good idea.

> Although there are other things that can be done additionally (like a 
> great merging support function), this is a simple thing that 
> can be done 
> NOW and that'll work in an easy way.

Maybe once this is done I could start looking at a merge solution. I've
just got a little more testing to do and I'll post the patch. Should I
post it to the list?

> I don't want to change wiki / moinmoin into a CMS either. 
> Standard CMSs 
> are usually fscking complicated and I don't want that.

I agree. Plone was far too complicated and the portal managers like Nuke
don't look like, or do what I want, they are too rigid. Has anyone found
any good Python ones, or simpler more flexible PHP ones?

> But I would really like some SIMPLE functions for ACLs (see 
> MoinMoin:AccessControlList(s?)), to be able to use it for private or 
> confidential stuff on the web. Please add your ideas there, how to 
> implement that best.

I like your ideas on ACLs. Simple, effective. Perhaps you should write
it up for the list.



> Thomas Waldmann
> Sent: January 31, 2003 10:41 AM
> To: moin-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Moin-devel] Page Permissions

> > Agreed. Personally I'd be happy with being able to restrict
> > read and write for "non-members". It's fairly simple to do
> > this globally though, without big changes in MoinMoin, and
> > to do it on a page level you can set up three wikis: ...
> 
> I don't want to set up 3 wikis, if I only need some (3 ;) 
> protected pages.

I agree, its excessively complicated.

> I also don't want to treat anybody special by moin's 
> securitypolicy by 
> adding his id to moin_config.py.
> That all would be overkill due to missing functionality.

I agree, that's the only way that I can see that you can have per user
permissions which is "hardcoded" and not very satisfactory.


> Thomas Waldmann
> Sent: January 31, 2003 10:53 AM
> To: moin-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Moin-devel] Page Permissions
> 
> > = HEY! I'm making big changes in this page right now =
> > == Please leave it alone for a while. /Thomas ==
> 
> Yes, I sometimes already did that. But sometimes you don't PLAN to do 
> long and complex changes. But then you decide to do while 
> editing and ...
> 
> Therefore, some standard behaviour you don't have to PLAN 
> would be nice.

I think this is a good point. The wiki is pretty free form. Sometimes
you can be browsing around and just see an error and whilst fixing it
you start to add comments  and maybe someone interrupts you, the phone
rings etc. (Currently, with the patch I am doing, if the timer goes past
10 minutes other users will not be warned that you are editing a page,
so you may have to merge. ie. you have a limited "grace period" to get
your edits in.)


regards,
Nick