[Microbit-Python] MicroPython on micro:bit TODO list

Mon Jul 20 14:24:44 CEST 2015

Howard,

For info, Europython is happening at the moment in Spain, and I suspect
that if any movement on this could happen this week, it would be highly
beneficial, and conversely lack of movement may be detrimental.

(I'm not there, but I know that a lot of the core people from the PSF will
be)

The other key blocker is development devices. Without hardware, there are
real practical issues. At present only one person can test whether things
are working end to end, due to the distributed nature of those on the list.

Michael.

On 20 July 2015 at 12:59, Howard Baker-IF&L <howard.baker at bbc.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm so pleased about the progress around this because I really want to see
> Python for the Micro:bit in the hands of kids, so a *huge* thanks to
> everybody who is making this happen. I'm personally in favour of the
> MicroPython solution as it is an amazing thing and puts coders in direct
> contact with the device. I'm also in favour of getting an editor inside TD
> because I think that will expose a huge number of kids to Python and this
> exciting way of controlling kit and also expose them to the Python
> community -- something which I feel is essential to the future of the
> Micro:bit project. It also leads them in a natural way to Raspberry Pi and
> all its resources.
>
> However, Michael is right in that there are huge implications and
> potential problems, not just for the BBC but for its partners as well, in
> making this part of the project open source before the rest of the project.
> I have a meeting on Wednesday which will start to explore the PSF's
> recommendations and the requests around open-source and lifting NDAs. Part
> of the answer of course revolves aroun when the project will be open
> sourced. When I talked to Nicholas I wasn't clear about that as we had only
> just announced those plans. I think Michael's breakdown of the tasks is a
> good one and his and Joe's philosophy of let's just try and make work what
> we can make work is the right way to go. I'd like to add an extension to
> this philosophy and suggest exploring what we can open up without exposing
> everything. The answer could be nothing or it could be something that was
> useful to the community without releasing the DAL.
>
> Thanks again
> Howard
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Microbit [mailto:microbit-bounces+howard.baker=bbc.co.uk at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Nicholas H.Tollervey
> Sent: 15 July 2015 11:49
> To: microbit at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Microbit-Python] MicroPython on micro:bit TODO list
>
> Michael,
>
> I've explained to Howard and Fiona on several occasions that the Python
> community are only going to engage if they're unencumbered by NDAs etc...
>
> In fact, in the PSF's original proposal I stated that our modus operandi
> would be to work in the open.
>
> We're being set up to fail if this code isn't opened to the wider
> community asap.
>
> Some speedy positive movement on this front is essential.
>
> I think both steps 1 and 2 that you list are essential for the continued
> success of MicroPython on micro:bit project. Releasing the code for the
> website would also make development of the Python editor a *lot* easier.
>
> We also need devices for developers to play with.
>
> Time is something we don't have a lot of. We need to move quickly on this.
>
> N.
>
> On 15/07/15 11:38, Michael wrote:
> > Hi Nick,
> >
> > On 15 July 2015 at 10:22, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll at ntoll.org
> > <mailto:ntoll at ntoll.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 15/07/15 10:19, Finney, Joe wrote:
> >     > I'm afraid I can't do that unilaterally as it's written into our
> >     > contract... If we wanted to do this, it would need signoff from BBC
> >     > (and maybe others).
> >     >
> >
> >     Hi Joe,
> >
> >     That's exactly what Howard was discussing on Monday. What steps would
> >     the BBC need to execute in order for resources to be open-sourced
> >     sometime in August.
> >
> >
> >
> > Probably the key one is an explicit statement of absolute need with the
> > consequence of not happening being dire.
> >
> >
> > In my experience, **more** people stating this often results in a
> > quicker action. The BBC is an incredibly risk averse organisation
> > generally speaking, which means decisions rarely reside in a single
> > individual - though are often *driven* by a one or more people.
> >
> >
> > Unpicking this, I would suggest there are three steps possible steps:
> >
> > 1) Sharing of the current runtime/DAL (pretty much immediately :-) )
> > since without this, this group cannot move forward. The preference here
> > IMO should be:
> >     - get the current working team added to the permissions list for
> > [the mbed mercurial repo]
> >
> > Since changes can and do happen, and tracking them is necessary and
> vital.
> >
> >
> > 2) Look to release the *micro-python* version of the runtime/DAL ASAP -
> > **in the early august time frame** noted above.
> > ie everything necessary to run build and run micro-python for the
> > micro-bit. The purpose of this would be community engagement. I think
> > this is necessary to the creation of a *successful* micropython runtime
> > for the micro:bit.
> >
> >
> > 3) Look to release the main runtime/DAL **in the august time frame**.
> > This would IMO be extremely useful since it would help keep "2") on
> > track, otherwise it requires those with access to 1) to moderate and
> > gatekeep changes closer - which is an overhead.
> >
> >
> > My impression - is that 3) could be *tricky* - because the plan for
> > release as open source anyway is that it will be through a non-profit
> > company - and I suspect that it would be disruptive for that. Or at
> > least licensing under the name micro:bit will be. (ala the way the
> > arduino name is, but not the hardware/software - which is open)
> >
> >
> > My impression that despite overlap on some technical levels... that 2)
> > would be easier to get internal BBC agreement for on the timescale that
> > you need.
> >
> >
> > My impression is that 1) is just a no-brainer - of the level of "why are
> > you asking for me to say "no" " :-)
> >
> >
> > As I say though, the thing which will be make Howard's life easier will
> > be simple answers to this;
> >
> > For each of the 3 things, how important is it to happen:
> >
> >   - It can't work otherwise
> >   - Necessary and vital,
> >   - Necessary
> >   - Extremely useful.
> >
> > And the consequence of it not happening.
> >
> > I'd say:
> >
> > 1) is "It can't work otherwise" - it can't be delivered without this
> > 2) is "Necessary" (possibly "Necessary and vital") - quality will suffer
> > without this
> > 3) is "Extremely useful." - it could cause 2) to drift badly from 1)
> > without this, resulting problems in schools
> >
> > The more people who state their position, the better, the point being to
> > help Howard - since he can ask "do we want the latter option to occur",
> > to which you'd hope people would say "no". :-)
> >
> > It's worth noting that everyone I've spoken to in the BBC has been up
> > for release (I state this because it's very unusual for there to be such
> > quick universal agreement). However, often the most common timeline I've
> > heard has been November, so this would be a change that needs
> > justification. To those on this list, I suspect the reasons are obvious.
> >
> > It will have more weight from others on this list though :-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Microbit mailing list
> > Microbit at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/microbit
> >
>
>
>
>
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