From cbarton at metavr.com Fri Jun 22 01:37:52 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:37:52 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list Message-ID: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> Hi, I was asking some questions about Pythons C/API in the python-dev mailing list and 2 of the guys there suggested I start a new mailing ---- snip from py-dev ML > Futrhermore, questions about the C API often concern CPython > > implementation details and so they don't feel like they would belong in > > comp.lang.python. As an experiment, it might make sense to open a > > mailing list dedicated to the Python C API. It could become a useful > > support forum for extension writers (a group very useful to Python) and > > maybe even a melting pot for new ideas regarding CPython, much like > > comp.lang.python historically provided ideas for Python the language. Agree a Python/C API List would be great, in fact I cant see any reasons not to have it- likely the pure python users dont want to know about refcounting problems.. etc anyway. http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo http://www.python.org/community/sigs/ There are lists/newsgroup for py2exe and pyrex, Python-ObjectiveC etc, Python/C API seems much more generic, and its also fairly tricky to use at times - when doing more advanced stuff (subtyping has been tricky for me anyway). I expect the dev's of pyrex, pygame etc might also need to discuss C API spesific issues as well. -- Campbell J Barton (ideasman42) From barry at python.org Mon Jun 25 14:13:46 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:13:46 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> Message-ID: <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 21, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Campbell Barton wrote: > Hi, > I was asking some questions about Pythons C/API in the python-dev > mailing list and 2 of the guys there suggested I start a new mailing I wouldn't be opposed to creating the list if there is enough interest. I used to do a lot of C API stuff, but not so much these days. Perhaps we should create it with an expiration date so that if there's little or no traffic on it, we can just retire it in a year. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRn+xe3EjvBPtnXfVAQI9DwQAo56mgV8IEAoipSwIsXwjqdNsG1ufzEd/ QxFlF2357mY/b34AU39x90WlXAhMjf1kXVMA0LIMlYfKWK8+ixL8v3OmJ4FpC8mE p5SOs1NK9SHXtxpTKBlBdxDHTckD4S0ViovWljObstIt+kmFErFeALeDUUUo/dlB +wXMXZelapk= =GLWu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cbarton at metavr.com Mon Jun 25 17:04:05 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:04:05 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> Message-ID: <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> Barry Warsaw wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Jun 21, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Campbell Barton wrote: > >> Hi, >> I was asking some questions about Pythons C/API in the python-dev >> mailing list and 2 of the guys there suggested I start a new mailing > > I wouldn't be opposed to creating the list if there is enough interest. > I used to do a lot of C API stuff, but not so much these days. > > Perhaps we should create it with an expiration date so that if there's > little or no traffic on it, we can just retire it in a year. > > - -Barry Sounds reasonable, how can we make it so? -- Campbell J Barton (ideasman42) From barry at python.org Mon Jun 25 17:52:19 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:52:19 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> Message-ID: <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 25, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Campbell Barton wrote: > Sounds reasonable, how can we make it so? I'd like to see if anybody else on this list chimes in with their opinion. You might also want to take an informal (PEP 10 style) poll on python-dev and python-list. If you get deafening silence, it's probably not worth it. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRn/ks3EjvBPtnXfVAQI8rQQAt6Pn8zk6ALTCq844fju11AGrYYAjOJh9 ns85SvP3D4F6HaZxjUQ5niCuDSg8AbK7fWNOOzfmvLyaggXwzY13f7eubRu0cgmH CecxrOUopUh7sC/eBxADTXMK33JZdeINqGwGBOCWBLBOy22DjMBThZHF26/ljqja 3EiNRzZCUuo= =faZq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeff at taupro.com Mon Jun 25 22:53:00 2007 From: jeff at taupro.com (Jeff Rush) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:53:00 -0500 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> Message-ID: <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> Barry Warsaw wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Jun 25, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Campbell Barton wrote: > >> Sounds reasonable, how can we make it so? > > I'd like to see if anybody else on this list chimes in with their > opinion. You might also want to take an informal (PEP 10 style) poll > on python-dev and python-list. If you get deafening silence, it's > probably not worth it. I would join such a list - I sometimes write extension modules to wrap Linux libraries. -Jeff From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Jun 26 11:23:01 2007 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:23:01 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> Message-ID: <1C7D6470-EEB7-4C36-A5DF-59123816CD98@cwi.nl> On 25-jun-2007, at 22:53, Jeff Rush wrote: > I would join such a list - I sometimes write extension modules to > wrap Linux > libraries. I would definitely join as well. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From mal at egenix.com Tue Jun 26 11:52:46 2007 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:52:46 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <1C7D6470-EEB7-4C36-A5DF-59123816CD98@cwi.nl> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <1C7D6470-EEB7-4C36-A5DF-59123816CD98@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <4680E1EE.8070309@egenix.com> On 2007-06-26 11:23, Jack Jansen wrote: > On 25-jun-2007, at 22:53, Jeff Rush wrote: >> I would join such a list - I sometimes write extension modules to >> wrap Linux >> libraries. > > I would definitely join as well. You can count me in as well. One thing I'm not sure about is scope: Most of the C API development is closely tied to the Python C implementation (which also uses the C API) and so far all the discussions regarding changes/enhancements/etc. have taken place on the python-dev list. I would assume that the list would mostly be about using the C API rather than modifying it, right ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jun 26 2007) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ 2007-07-09: EuroPython 2007, Vilnius, Lithuania 12 days to go :::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 From barry at python.org Tue Jun 26 14:19:16 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:19:16 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 25, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > Barry Warsaw wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Jun 25, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Campbell Barton wrote: >> >>> Sounds reasonable, how can we make it so? >> >> I'd like to see if anybody else on this list chimes in with their >> opinion. You might also want to take an informal (PEP 10 style) poll >> on python-dev and python-list. If you get deafening silence, it's >> probably not worth it. > > I would join such a list - I sometimes write extension modules to > wrap Linux > libraries. Seems like there's enough interest then. Who wants to own the list? - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRoEERHEjvBPtnXfVAQJHLAP/YWPtTXlfyQ8rGYTtJdJkaNiN5vOaJogG TLdHTd+HMHZ3t6L5gRdpziTF0OPyUoDUyS4NeF3NW9mEEsQowK46iQQ0v/9+5lAS dbzfJ93xz3gfKJnmrLJVCpJUCGRhGyYlxGaOWflPKwyEjtjAcaG1uPvsMFu0/W4m Sksusyuf7nA= =gsrM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cbarton at metavr.com Tue Jun 26 22:56:38 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:56:38 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> Message-ID: <46817D86.9050802@metavr.com> Barry Warsaw wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Jun 25, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Jeff Rush wrote: > >> Barry Warsaw wrote: >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> On Jun 25, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Campbell Barton wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds reasonable, how can we make it so? >>> I'd like to see if anybody else on this list chimes in with their >>> opinion. You might also want to take an informal (PEP 10 style) poll >>> on python-dev and python-list. If you get deafening silence, it's >>> probably not worth it. >> I would join such a list - I sometimes write extension modules to >> wrap Linux >> libraries. > > Seems like there's enough interest then. Who wants to own the list? > > - -Barry If nobody else wants to I dont mind. Iv been using the python/C api for around 4 years now. though if somebody who is more apart of the python community wants to thats fine. Im working on refactoring a Python/C api at the moment so Iv got a working understanding of the basic/intermediate level and would be happy to answer questions etc. What are the tasks a list owner has to do? From cbarton at metavr.com Tue Jun 26 23:00:46 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:00:46 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <4680E1EE.8070309@egenix.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <1C7D6470-EEB7-4C36-A5DF-59123816CD98@cwi.nl> <4680E1EE.8070309@egenix.com> Message-ID: <46817E7E.3010002@metavr.com> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 2007-06-26 11:23, Jack Jansen wrote: >> On 25-jun-2007, at 22:53, Jeff Rush wrote: >>> I would join such a list - I sometimes write extension modules to >>> wrap Linux >>> libraries. >> I would definitely join as well. > > You can count me in as well. > > One thing I'm not sure about is scope: > > Most of the C API > development is closely tied to the Python C implementation > (which also uses the C API) and so far all the discussions > regarding changes/enhancements/etc. have taken place on > the python-dev list. > > I would assume that the list would mostly be about using > the C API rather than modifying it, right ? > Areas for additions could be evaluated on this list and if they are needed or desirable we could forward the request to Python-Developers list, though in many cases I expect there will be some way with the existing API. From Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl Tue Jun 26 23:12:55 2007 From: Jack.Jansen at cwi.nl (Jack Jansen) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:12:55 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <46817E7E.3010002@metavr.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <1C7D6470-EEB7-4C36-A5DF-59123816CD98@cwi.nl> <4680E1EE.8070309@egenix.com> <46817E7E.3010002@metavr.com> Message-ID: <638AB98C-555F-437C-A9C1-EB634AC7159C@cwi.nl> From the various replies to the initial query I get the impression there are two distinct topics that people think the mailing list should be about: - The API that the Python core library presents to C code (whether C is embedding or extending Python) - How to make external C APIs available to Python programs. Both interest me, and there is definitely some relationship between the two, but I think it is a good idea if we focus the list. -- Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman From cbarton at metavr.com Tue Jun 26 23:27:42 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:27:42 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <638AB98C-555F-437C-A9C1-EB634AC7159C@cwi.nl> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <1C7D6470-EEB7-4C36-A5DF-59123816CD98@cwi.nl> <4680E1EE.8070309@egenix.com> <46817E7E.3010002@metavr.com> <638AB98C-555F-437C-A9C1-EB634AC7159C@cwi.nl> Message-ID: <468184CE.7080806@metavr.com> Jack Jansen wrote: > From the various replies to the initial query I get the impression > there are two distinct topics that people think the mailing list > should be about: > - The API that the Python core library presents to C code (whether C > is embedding or extending Python) > - How to make external C APIs available to Python programs. > > Both interest me, and there is definitely some relationship between > the two, but I think it is a good idea if we focus the list. > -- > Jack Jansen, , http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma > Goldman I dont think we need to distinguish between the 2, there are examples on extending and embedding as well as existing projects that can be used as a reference. If people show some initiative Im sure they can get some code started and then work through some of their problems on their own. If they cant find answers from searching and looking at the API docs this list would be the place to ask. Personally I have found the basics are well documented, its when your putting together an API and doing some more obscure stuff that discussing these topics on a list would help. Since its hard to get help on this topic I dont want to be too exclusive and turn away people with valid questions related to the Py/C api. From barry at python.org Thu Jun 28 16:09:20 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:09:20 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <46817D86.9050802@metavr.com> References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <46817D86.9050802@metavr.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 26, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Campbell Barton wrote: > If nobody else wants to I dont mind. Iv been using the python/C api > for > around 4 years now. Looks like you're elected. :) > though if somebody who is more apart of the python community wants to > thats fine. > > Im working on refactoring a Python/C api at the moment so Iv got a > working understanding of the basic/intermediate level and would be > happy > to answer questions etc. > > What are the tasks a list owner has to do? It's not too much work. You have to manage the admin queue for the list, approving or rejecting held messages as appropriate. Shouldn't be too much work for this list I think. You should also do a bit of configuring of the list, but ask here if you have any questions. Two last things: pick a name for the sig (I might suggest capi-sig) and tell me what email address you want to use as the owner and I'll create the list. I'm a little less certain abouit how to update the www.python.org/sigs page, but I'll give it a shot and ask webmaster if I have any problems. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRoPBEHEjvBPtnXfVAQIwQgP/SXZK+65hWn5cRStbJ10FZd0NSjy9dhf3 5wcD7cB4desTCaMK4d6znTYx03z09BJy103UEkeIxFFbvQOlcws/e5fW8vxcs7RA Sh/66jqz7zG6QdRuegIU59vYBAMJmQWrhNkeEJoENRH8AscrPOEjKFIwo19l9Y4s KJwKLssOnAY= =iNfR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cbarton at metavr.com Thu Jun 28 16:27:04 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:27:04 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Request for Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <46817D86.9050802@metavr.com> Message-ID: <4683C538.80901@metavr.com> Barry Warsaw wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Jun 26, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Campbell Barton wrote: > >> If nobody else wants to I dont mind. Iv been using the python/C api for >> around 4 years now. > > Looks like you're elected. :) > >> though if somebody who is more apart of the python community wants to >> thats fine. >> >> Im working on refactoring a Python/C api at the moment so Iv got a >> working understanding of the basic/intermediate level and would be happy >> to answer questions etc. >> >> What are the tasks a list owner has to do? > > It's not too much work. You have to manage the admin queue for the > list, approving or rejecting held messages as appropriate. Shouldn't be > too much work for this list I think. You should also do a bit of > configuring of the list, but ask here if you have any questions. > > Two last things: pick a name for the sig (I might suggest capi-sig) and > tell me what email address you want to use as the owner and I'll create > the list. I'm a little less certain abouit how to update the > www.python.org/sigs page, but I'll give it a shot and ask webmaster if I > have any problems. > > - -Barry Hi good to news! My email is "ideasman42(at)gmail.com" - and capi-sig sounds fine. - Cam From cbarton at metavr.com Fri Jun 29 02:44:49 2007 From: cbarton at metavr.com (Campbell Barton) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:44:49 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <467B0BD0.5020501@metavr.com> <3A7CBE3B-FF48-4035-A9F1-2FB10D9E7D93@python.org> <467FD965.8070202@metavr.com> <33031E68-3B67-4224-BCCA-2F2714D38FBC@python.org> <46802B2C.4090709@taupro.com> <46817D86.9050802@metavr.com> <4683C538.80901@metavr.com> Message-ID: <46845601.2010101@metavr.com> testing joining the list and it seems to work. Id appreciate if others could join also, before the list is made public. http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/capi-sig Once its on the main sig page Id like to post on python ml and possibly python dev ml since that is where the list was suggested. From mhammond at skippinet.com.au Fri Jun 29 03:16:35 2007 From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:16:35 +1000 Subject: [meta-sig] Python/C API mailing list In-Reply-To: <46845601.2010101@metavr.com> Message-ID: <000001c7b9eb$234dc1a0$0200a8c0@enfoldsystems.local> > testing joining the list and it seems to work. > Id appreciate if others could join also, before the list is > made public. > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/capi-sig > > Once its on the main sig page Id like to post on python ml > and possibly > python dev ml since that is where the list was suggested. It works for me - however, I notice that after confirmation of my subscription request, the request is still forwarded to the list admin for approval. I see no need for that extra approval step, but this is obviously your call, as YMMV. Cheers, Mark