From guido@python.org Tue Aug 13 17:45:14 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:45:14 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages Message-ID: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> The Python Wiki (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin) is now open. I believe it is working very well. I wonder if it can be used to give most SIGs a more usable home on the web. Currently each SIG has a static home page, but since most SIG owners don't have webmaster permission on python.org, making changes to the SIG home pages is a pain. Moving the SIG homepages to the Wiki would solve this problem: the SIG members can maintain their own SIG site. Since the SIG home pages (e.g. python.org/sigs/meta-sig/) are used as well-known URLs to point to the SIGs, I propose to keep these pages around, but make them very simple: a link to the mailing list, a link to the list archives, a link to the Wiki, and that's it. AFAIK The Wiki doesn't have a hierarchical namespace, but I expect that's an advantage rather than a disadvantage -- accidental crosslinks can provide useful synchronicity. Comments? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From jriehl@spaceship.com Tue Aug 13 19:29:42 2002 From: jriehl@spaceship.com (Jonathan Riehl) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:29:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages In-Reply-To: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Guido van Rossum wrote: > The Python Wiki (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin) is now open. > I believe it is working very well. I wonder if it can be used to give > most SIGs a more usable home on the web. Currently each SIG has a > static home page, but since most SIG owners don't have webmaster > permission on python.org, making changes to the SIG home pages is a > pain. Moving the SIG homepages to the Wiki would solve this problem: > the SIG members can maintain their own SIG site. Very cool. > ... > AFAIK The Wiki doesn't have a hierarchical namespace, but I expect > that's an advantage rather than a disadvantage -- accidental > crosslinks can provide useful synchronicity. > > Comments? Wiki's can and have been used to carry on conversations. While I don't think most SIG members will use this "feature" (I think the majority will post technical documents/proposals on the Wiki and then refer readers to these for comments), there is still the possibility that lurkers of a SIG (which I am prone to be most of the year) will miss something. I was about to say there should be some email gateway for new material, but looking over the current MoinMoin version, I see SIG champions would be able to subscribe their lists to various pages pertinent to their SIG's. I guess it is time for me to update my copy of MoinMoin! -Jon From sdrees@python.net Tue Aug 13 21:30:52 2002 From: sdrees@python.net (Stefan Drees) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:30:52 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages In-Reply-To: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com>; from guido@python.org on Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 12:45:14PM -0400 References: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> Message-ID: <20020813223052.A31847@sdrees2.de> On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 12:45:14PM -0400 - a wonderful day - Guido van Rossum wrote: > The Python Wiki (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin) > is now open. I believe it is working very well. I wonder > if it can be used to give most SIGs a more usable home on > the web. ... > Moving the SIG homepages to the Wiki would solve this > problem: the SIG members can maintain their own SIG site. +1 > ... I propose to keep these pages around, but make them > very simple: a link to the mailing list, a link > to the list archives, a link to the Wiki, and that's it. +1 All the best, s t e f a n. -- Stefan Drees, sdrees@acm.org. From guido@python.org Tue Aug 13 22:19:47 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:19:47 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:30:52 +0200." <20020813223052.A31847@sdrees2.de> References: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> <20020813223052.A31847@sdrees2.de> Message-ID: <200208132119.g7DLJls25108@odiug.zope.com> Barry pointed out that most SIG owners actually *do* have python.org commit permission. So SIG owners can simply start a Wiki page (suggestion: the wiki home page for foo-sig could be FooSigHome) and link to it from the static SIG home page. (Please use a full link since mirror sites don't mirror the Wiki.) Are there any SIGs that need help with this? --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr Wed Aug 14 08:14:23 2002 From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:14:23 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages In-Reply-To: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> References: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> Message-ID: <20020814071423.GA32323@orion.logilab.fr> On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 12:45:14PM -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote: > AFAIK The Wiki doesn't have a hierarchical namespace, but I expect > that's an advantage rather than a disadvantage -- accidental > crosslinks can provide useful synchronicity. Actually, MoinMoin does provide such namespaces. Just put a wikiname with a / in it to enable this. For more information on this, see http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/HelpOnEditing_2fSubPages Alexandre Fayolle -- LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL). From guido@python.org Wed Aug 14 13:17:32 2002 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:17:32 -0400 Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:14:23 +0200." <20020814071423.GA32323@orion.logilab.fr> References: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> <20020814071423.GA32323@orion.logilab.fr> Message-ID: <200208141217.g7ECHWD00361@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> > > AFAIK The Wiki doesn't have a hierarchical namespace, but I expect > > that's an advantage rather than a disadvantage -- accidental > > crosslinks can provide useful synchronicity. > > Actually, MoinMoin does provide such namespaces. Just put a wikiname > with a / in it to enable this. For more information on this, see > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/HelpOnEditing_2fSubPages Whoops. Maybe we should create some structure for the Sigs then? How much? I could see two possibilities: (1) Each SIG gets its own toplevel homepage and the SIG's subpages are underneath that; (2) We create a toplevel container for the SIG homepages, and each SIG's subpages are underneath that (i.e. two slashes away from the root). I think (1) is good enough. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From sjoerd@acm.org Wed Aug 14 13:39:33 2002 From: sjoerd@acm.org (Sjoerd Mullender) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:39:33 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Giving each SIGs its own Wiki pages In-Reply-To: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> References: <200208131645.g7DGjEi08476@odiug.zope.com> Message-ID: <200208141239.g7ECdXg19516@indus.ins.cwi.nl> There is something strange with the timezones. I went to my UserPreferences page and I saw the following two lines: Time zone Your time is 2002-08-14 14:34:11 [+00:00] Server time is 2002-08-14 14:34:11 The strange thing is, my time at that time was 2002-08-14 14:34:11 [+02:00], but it looks like the server is in the same timezone as I am, but thinks it is in GMT. On Tue, Aug 13 2002 Guido van Rossum wrote: > The Python Wiki (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin) is now open. > I believe it is working very well. I wonder if it can be used to give > most SIGs a more usable home on the web. Currently each SIG has a > static home page, but since most SIG owners don't have webmaster > permission on python.org, making changes to the SIG home pages is a > pain. Moving the SIG homepages to the Wiki would solve this problem: > the SIG members can maintain their own SIG site. > > Since the SIG home pages (e.g. python.org/sigs/meta-sig/) are used as > well-known URLs to point to the SIGs, I propose to keep these pages > around, but make them very simple: a link to the mailing list, a link > to the list archives, a link to the Wiki, and that's it. > > AFAIK The Wiki doesn't have a hierarchical namespace, but I expect > that's an advantage rather than a disadvantage -- accidental > crosslinks can provide useful synchronicity. > > Comments? > > --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) > > _______________________________________________ > Meta-sig maillist - Meta-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/meta-sig > -- Sjoerd Mullender From fabbe@paniq.net Mon Aug 26 15:14:43 2002 From: fabbe@paniq.net (Fabian Fagerholm) Date: 26 Aug 2002 17:14:43 +0300 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG redefined Message-ID: <1030371283.1030.199.camel@kernel> --=-ZnrnI2ojDJK4pKxFRDGu Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! In two recent posts [0] on the mod_python mailing list - the second cross-posted to python-list and marketing-python - I have initiated a discussion about promoting Python in web application development, particularly in combination with the Apache HTTP daemon. The discussion sprung from the fact that there isn't a python.apache.org like there is perl.apache.org, tcl.apache.org and php.apache.org. The conclusion of that discussion as I perceive it, is that a site devoted to Python web application development in general and the Python-Apache combination in particular, should be created. The project has already begun its work, but I think the creation of this SIG is warranted because this effort needs a forum for initial coordination, and Python SIG status would provide a certain degree of credibility to the project. As part of the effort, I propose reviving the Web-SIG (or alternatively creating a new sig) for the purposes outlined below. Draft of short and long blurb texts below. --8<-- SIG for Web Application Development using Python Promotion of Python as web application development language. Mission statement This SIG has been created to discuss promotion of Python as a web application development language, to create resources for further promotion and to establish contacts to related projects. Coordinator: Fabian Fagerholm Deliverables * A web site presenting the other deliverables of this SIG to web application developers potentially using Python.=20 * A comprehensive list of the currently available tools for Python web application development, and a short introduction of each. * Some initial articles on web application development with Python: * a general article discussing web application development * a technical article that serves as a simple example * a "success story" of a Python web application deployment project that went well. * A collection of links to related projects. * Collaboration with the Apache Software Foundation: * possible creation of python.apache.org to point to the web site or a subsection of the website * possible push of mod_python as the Python alternative to mod_perl. No order of delivery is assigned to the deliverables. Further deliverables may be defined at a later date, but are outside the scope of the SIG mission. Conclusion The SIG will conclude after the Deliverables are delivered, or after the customary conclusion time as defined by the Python Meta-SIG, whichever is sooner. Upon SIG retirement, the mission is continued by either extension of the SIG end date or creation of an independent Python Web App Developers' Resource, coordinated through the Web Site. In the latter case, the SIG will create a new forum for the project. --8<-- Please consider this draft text and post any comments to this list. Thank you. Kind regards, Fabian Fagerholm [0] http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2002-August/002360.html http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2002-August/002369.html --=-ZnrnI2ojDJK4pKxFRDGu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEABECAAYFAj1qN9MACgkQ76VUNpZBmeLuyQCfbti5mX1yrdNgyczV57ybGnxS XJwAn00q/pXz4PFXRUrntY2SUtIKaxeX =2z0N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ZnrnI2ojDJK4pKxFRDGu-- From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr Mon Aug 26 15:35:51 2002 From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:35:51 +0200 Subject: [meta-sig] Proposal: Web-SIG redefined In-Reply-To: <1030371283.1030.199.camel@kernel> References: <1030371283.1030.199.camel@kernel> Message-ID: <20020826143550.GE15239@orion.logilab.fr> On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 05:14:43PM +0300, Fabian Fagerholm wrote: > > As part of the effort, I propose reviving the Web-SIG (or alternatively > creating a new sig) for the purposes outlined below. +1 on either. Alexandre Fayolle -- LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL).