From Barry A. Warsaw" Now that Majordomo (MD) is up and running on python.org, I've gone ahead and created this mailing list so we can talk about mailing lists. :-) I think I've caught up on all the messages posted recently regarding sigs and their lists. Here's what I propose (note: I've already set up the pdo-admin list for system administration of the physical machine). SIG lists ========= The main exploder address for all SIG lists will be -sig@python.org. Each will also have MD handling administrivia at -sig-request@python.org. Note that you can always get to MD via majordomo@python.org, but you have to specify the list for the command. Each list will also have owner--sig@python.org address so that people can get directly to a human or humans who are responsible for the list. Someone must be willing to take responsibility for a list in order to create it. I don't want to own every list (although I'm happy to `own' the MD infrastructure itself). There will have to be some cooperation between the list owner and someone with an account on python.org for some administrivia, and list creation, but not day-to-day activities so hopefully this can be kept to a minimum. I'm happy to be that contact. The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw archives will be `get'able via MD. Every SIG list should have an info file (-sig.info under /home/majordomo/Lists) generated by the list owner, and a password file (-sig.passwd). The owner of the list can choose the password. Every SIG list will be advertised (i.e. it shows up via the MD `which' command), and have an `open' subscription policy (i.e. you can un/subscribe yourself automatically, but approval is required if the address does not match the one you're sending from). As for moderation, I'm inclined to go with no moderation, and no restrict-post. Moderation means that all posts get bounced to the list owner, who must then resend it with an Approve: header. Restrict-post means that unapproved messages can only be posted by members of the list (otherwise they get bounced to the owner who can resubmit with an Approved: header). No-mod, no-restrict is the least painful for the owner, but I guess we should leave it up to the SIG owner to decide the post policy. These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, index, info, which, who. My preference for the SIG lists is to make these non-private (non-members can use them too). Again, we can decide this on a per-list basis. Guido mentioned putting mail robots on some aliases which just send back the SIG's info. Well, we probably don't need this because if someone sends a message to -sig-request@python.org, perhaps with the word `help' in the body, MD will by default send them some MD help information, and then the list specific info file. So... here are the aliases I propose setting up: General: sigs -- alias to majordomo sigs-info -- alias to sigs owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?) Topics: meta-sig -- a SIG about SIGs (owner: bwarsaw) locator-sig -- Python Locator Service SIG (owner: peveritt) docproj-sig -- Documentation Project SIG (owner: mclay) gui-sig -- Common GUI SIG (owners: jfulton, klm) matrix-sig -- Matrix Algebra SIG (owner: jfulton) workshop-sig -- Workshop Organization SIG (owner: volunteers?) PSA Aliases =========== The PSA exploder ought to be essentially similar to a SIG list, with two differences. Subscription policy ought to be closed so that only paid-in-full members[*] are on the list, and we should restrict-post to members only. I think the list should be advertised, but I'm flexible on the private-able commands. psa -- alias to majordomo for robot reply psa-info -- alias to psa psa-list -- exploder psa-list-request -- alias to majordomo owner-psa -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt, jfulton, nick [*]so when are we gonna see PSA checks from you non-CNRI'ers? :-) Python Aliases ============== Python aliases would be similar to the PSA aliases, except that subscription policy would be open, and there'd be no restrict-post. For now python-list and python-list-request would be aliased to cwi.nl but we'd move them over at some point. Since these are probably going to be fairly large lists (do you know how many people, Guido?), we may need to investigate something like the bulk_mail program which supposedly speeds up sendmail delivered lists. Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and python-gripes. Do we need all these? Fine with me if we really do, but maybe python-help or python-bugs would suffice. python-developers? python-users? How would this differ from python-list? ========== Okay, so what do you all think? Have I missed anything? Anything not make sense? At this point only pdo-admin and meta-sig actually exist. -Barry ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From guido@cnri.reston.va.us Wed Jun 21 23:23:42 1995 From: guido@cnri.reston.va.us (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:23:42 -0400 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] My thoughts on mailing lists In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jun 1995 17:46:50 EDT." <9506212146.AA02315@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <9506212146.AA02315@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <9506212223.AA21570@spam.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Looks good! Some minor things only: > The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw archives > will be `get'able via MD. For example, how do I get the archives for the pdo-admin list? In what format do I get it? > Every SIG list should have an info file > (-sig.info under /home/majordomo/Lists) generated by the list > owner, and a password file (-sig.passwd). The owner of the > list can choose the password. Once you know the password, how do you know the extended command set that this (presumably) enables? > As for moderation, I'm inclined to go with no moderation, and no > restrict-post. Moderation means that all posts get bounced to the > list owner, who must then resend it with an Approve: header. > Restrict-post means that unapproved messages can only be posted by > members of the list (otherwise they get bounced to the owner who can > resubmit with an Approved: header). No-mod, no-restrict is the least > painful for the owner, but I guess we should leave it up to the SIG > owner to decide the post policy. I would strongly suggest that all sigs start as open as possible and that moderation or restrict-post only be added when there's a proven need (i.e. when the list is being abused more than sporadically). > These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, index, > info, which, who. My preference for the SIG lists is to make these > non-private (non-members can use them too). Again, we can decide this > on a per-list basis. Anyway, restricting these only makes sense if subscription is restricted... > Guido mentioned putting mail robots on some aliases which just send > back the SIG's info. Well, we probably don't need this because if > someone sends a message to -sig-request@python.org, perhaps > with the word `help' in the body, MD will by default send them some MD > help information, and then the list specific info file. Cool! > So... here are the aliases I propose setting up: > > General: > sigs -- alias to majordomo > sigs-info -- alias to sigs > owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?) I'm not sure that we need these... > Topics: > meta-sig -- a SIG about SIGs (owner: bwarsaw) > locator-sig -- Python Locator Service SIG (owner: peveritt) > docproj-sig -- Documentation Project SIG (owner: mclay) Perhaps just "doc-sig"? > gui-sig -- Common GUI SIG (owners: jfulton, klm) > matrix-sig -- Matrix Algebra SIG (owner: jfulton) > workshop-sig -- Workshop Organization SIG (owner: volunteers?) Add: opt-sig -- Optimization (owner: guido) > owner-psa -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt, > jfulton, nick That list is probably a bit big -- we don't need everyone in this list to see all the bounces and messages requiring approval. Anyway, what happens if there are two or more owners and both forward a message for approval? Does it get posted twice? On the other hand, if there is to be a list of the "PSA activists", I suggest adding Robin Friedrich . > [*]so when are we gonna see PSA checks from you non-CNRI'ers? :-) When someone (Paul? Michael?) sends a message to the list asking for checks... Currently the procedure for becoming a member isn't very clear at all from the Web server, and non-webbers don't know anything about this... > Python aliases would be similar to the PSA aliases, except that > subscription policy would be open, and there'd be no restrict-post. > For now python-list and python-list-request would be aliased to cwi.nl > but we'd move them over at some point. Since these are probably going > to be fairly large lists (do you know how many people, Guido?), we may > need to investigate something like the bulk_mail program which > supposedly speeds up sendmail delivered lists. Actually, there are currently only ~130 people subscribed, and it's not really growing (it was once at 200) because most people read it using News. > Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and python-gripes. > Do we need all these? Fine with me if we really do, but maybe > python-help or python-bugs would suffice. Alias all three to me, for now, so we can announce them. > python-developers? > > python-users? How would this differ from python-list? These two mailing lists serve different purposes from the list @ CWI. They are intended for those people who specifically don't want usenet news users to be part of their audience. We should probably discuss creation of these two on python-list@cwi.nl first. > Okay, so what do you all think? Have I missed anything? Anything not > make sense? At this point only pdo-admin and meta-sig actually exist. I suggest that it's up to the proposed owners to give Barry the go-ahead for creation of the list, after which the owner can then announce the creation of the SIG and its mailing list on the python-list. I'll add the SIGs to the relevant web page as they are created. I would like to also add the SIG's info (and perhaps other files) to the web page. This could be done automatically if I can find out why the http daemon currently doesn't seem to follow symbolic links... Perhaps Barry can suggest some boilerplate verbiage that the owner can include in the announcement, explaining how to use the SIG (so each owner doesn't have to write what's essentially the same text)? --Guido van Rossum URL: ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From Barry A. Warsaw" <9506212223.AA21570@spam.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <9506212305.AA02414@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Me> The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw Me> archives will be `get'able via MD. GvR> For example, how do I get the archives for the pdo-admin GvR> list? In what format do I get it? If you mean, how does Joe Average get the archive via majordomo, they should just be able to send the message "get pdo-admin.archive" to pdo-admin-request@python.org. The actual file is kept in /home/majordomo/Files/pdo-admin/pdo-admin.archive MD's archiving is pretty dumb. It just appends every new message to this file. It would serve as raw input to whatever threading/html-izing engine you want to run on it. GvR> Once you know the password, how do you know the extended GvR> command set that this (presumably) enables? The password just enables basically two things, un/subscription requests and moderated/restrict-post posts. For the former you include the password in the long form of the subscribe command (see `help' sent to majordomo@python.org), and for the latter, you add an Approve: header with the value being the password. I'll have to re-read the FAQ to see if there's anything else. I just copied the latest version to /home/majordomo/FAQ. GvR> I would strongly suggest that all sigs start as open as GvR> possible and that moderation or restrict-post only be added GvR> when there's a proven need (i.e. when the list is being GvR> abused more than sporadically). I agree completely. Me> These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, Me> index, info, which, who. My preference for the SIG lists is Me> to make these non-private (non-members can use them too). Me> Again, we can decide this on a per-list basis. GvR> Anyway, restricting these only makes sense if subscription is GvR> restricted... Agreed. The only other scenario I can possibly imagine is a list who's members would like to remain anonymous. Well, this is Python after all, and not sex-with-furniture. :-) Me> sigs -- alias to majordomo Me> sigs-info -- alias to sigs Me> owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?) GvR> I'm not sure that we need these... You might be right. I think these were on somebody's earlier suggestion, but maybe they don't serve any purpose. Okay, bag these. GvR> Perhaps just "doc-sig"? We'll let Mike decide since he's going to own it... :-) GvR> opt-sig -- Optimization (owner: guido) I'd prefer optimize-sig. `Opt' always means `Optional' to me when I read it. Me> owner-psa -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt, Me> jfulton, nick GvR> That list is probably a bit big -- we don't need everyone in GvR> this list to see all the bounces and messages requiring GvR> approval. Fine with me. Anybody want to take it on? Otherwise, I'll own it. GvR> Anyway, what happens if there are two or more owners and both GvR> forward a message for approval? Does it get posted twice? Could happen. There'd have to be some coordination between the owners, like Ken's primary owner, but if he's out of town I'll back him up. That kind of thing. GvR> On the other hand, if there is to be a list of the "PSA GvR> activists", I suggest adding Robin Friedrich GvR> . Oops, I meant to include him on meta-sig (I'll do so now). Sorry Robin. We did talk about a psa-sc list for Steering Committee members. Okay, add psa-sc to the list of lists... GvR> Actually, there are currently only ~130 people subscribed, GvR> and it's not really growing (it was once at 200) because most GvR> people read it using News. As I do. I think the most painful symptom of a list-too-big (smoke-too-much? :-) is that some people see responses to messages they haven't seen yet. I doubt 130 is too big, so let's not worry about it until it bcomes a problem. Me> Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and Me> python-gripes. Do we need all these? Fine with me if we Me> really do, but maybe python-help or python-bugs would suffice. GvR> Alias all three to me, for now, so we can announce them. Okay, if you know what the distinction is, that's fine with me. GvR> These two mailing lists serve different purposes from the GvR> list @ CWI. They are intended for those people who GvR> specifically don't want usenet news users to be part of their GvR> audience. We should probably discuss creation of these two GvR> on python-list@cwi.nl first. Fine. GvR> Perhaps Barry can suggest some boilerplate verbiage that the GvR> owner can include in the announcement, explaining how to use GvR> the SIG (so each owner doesn't have to write what's GvR> essentially the same text)? What I've done before is basically send out the .info file and in there I try to outline some basic majordomo usage. Check out meta-sig's info for a boilerplate. If that's insufficient, I'll write more verbiage. -Barry ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From Barry A. Warsaw" ------- start of forwarded message (RFC 934 encapsulation) ------- A collection of SPAM Haiku ========================== Pink tender morsel, Glistening with salty gel. What the hell is it? -------------- Ears, snouts and inards, A homogeneous mass. Pass another slice. -------------- Cube of cold pinkness Yellow specks of porcine fat. Give me a spork please. -------------- Old man seeks doctor. "I eat SPAM daily", says he. Angioplasty. -------------- Highly unnatural, The tortured shape of this "food": A small pink coffin. ------- end ------- ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From Barry A. Warsaw" Now that Majordomo (MD) is up and running on python.org, I've gone ahead and created this mailing list so we can talk about mailing lists. :-) I think I've caught up on all the messages posted recently regarding sigs and their lists. Here's what I propose (note: I've already set up the pdo-admin list for system administration of the physical machine). SIG lists ========= The main exploder address for all SIG lists will be -sig@python.org. Each will also have MD handling administrivia at -sig-request@python.org. Note that you can always get to MD via majordomo@python.org, but you have to specify the list for the command. Each list will also have owner--sig@python.org address so that people can get directly to a human or humans who are responsible for the list. Someone must be willing to take responsibility for a list in order to create it. I don't want to own every list (although I'm happy to `own' the MD infrastructure itself). There will have to be some cooperation between the list owner and someone with an account on python.org for some administrivia, and list creation, but not day-to-day activities so hopefully this can be kept to a minimum. I'm happy to be that contact. The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw archives will be `get'able via MD. Every SIG list should have an info file (-sig.info under /home/majordomo/Lists) generated by the list owner, and a password file (-sig.passwd). The owner of the list can choose the password. Every SIG list will be advertised (i.e. it shows up via the MD `which' command), and have an `open' subscription policy (i.e. you can un/subscribe yourself automatically, but approval is required if the address does not match the one you're sending from). As for moderation, I'm inclined to go with no moderation, and no restrict-post. Moderation means that all posts get bounced to the list owner, who must then resend it with an Approve: header. Restrict-post means that unapproved messages can only be posted by members of the list (otherwise they get bounced to the owner who can resubmit with an Approved: header). No-mod, no-restrict is the least painful for the owner, but I guess we should leave it up to the SIG owner to decide the post policy. These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, index, info, which, who. My preference for the SIG lists is to make these non-private (non-members can use them too). Again, we can decide this on a per-list basis. Guido mentioned putting mail robots on some aliases which just send back the SIG's info. Well, we probably don't need this because if someone sends a message to -sig-request@python.org, perhaps with the word `help' in the body, MD will by default send them some MD help information, and then the list specific info file. So... here are the aliases I propose setting up: General: sigs -- alias to majordomo sigs-info -- alias to sigs owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?) Topics: meta-sig -- a SIG about SIGs (owner: bwarsaw) locator-sig -- Python Locator Service SIG (owner: peveritt) docproj-sig -- Documentation Project SIG (owner: mclay) gui-sig -- Common GUI SIG (owners: jfulton, klm) matrix-sig -- Matrix Algebra SIG (owner: jfulton) workshop-sig -- Workshop Organization SIG (owner: volunteers?) PSA Aliases =========== The PSA exploder ought to be essentially similar to a SIG list, with two differences. Subscription policy ought to be closed so that only paid-in-full members[*] are on the list, and we should restrict-post to members only. I think the list should be advertised, but I'm flexible on the private-able commands. psa -- alias to majordomo for robot reply psa-info -- alias to psa psa-list -- exploder psa-list-request -- alias to majordomo owner-psa -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt, jfulton, nick [*]so when are we gonna see PSA checks from you non-CNRI'ers? :-) Python Aliases ============== Python aliases would be similar to the PSA aliases, except that subscription policy would be open, and there'd be no restrict-post. For now python-list and python-list-request would be aliased to cwi.nl but we'd move them over at some point. Since these are probably going to be fairly large lists (do you know how many people, Guido?), we may need to investigate something like the bulk_mail program which supposedly speeds up sendmail delivered lists. Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and python-gripes. Do we need all these? Fine with me if we really do, but maybe python-help or python-bugs would suffice. python-developers? python-users? How would this differ from python-list? ========== Okay, so what do you all think? Have I missed anything? Anything not make sense? At this point only pdo-admin and meta-sig actually exist. -Barry ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From guido@cnri.reston.va.us Wed Jun 21 23:23:42 1995 From: guido@cnri.reston.va.us (Guido van Rossum) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:23:42 -0400 Subject: [PYTHON META-SIG] My thoughts on mailing lists In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jun 1995 17:46:50 EDT." <9506212146.AA02315@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> References: <9506212146.AA02315@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <9506212223.AA21570@spam.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Looks good! Some minor things only: > The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw archives > will be `get'able via MD. For example, how do I get the archives for the pdo-admin list? In what format do I get it? > Every SIG list should have an info file > (-sig.info under /home/majordomo/Lists) generated by the list > owner, and a password file (-sig.passwd). The owner of the > list can choose the password. Once you know the password, how do you know the extended command set that this (presumably) enables? > As for moderation, I'm inclined to go with no moderation, and no > restrict-post. Moderation means that all posts get bounced to the > list owner, who must then resend it with an Approve: header. > Restrict-post means that unapproved messages can only be posted by > members of the list (otherwise they get bounced to the owner who can > resubmit with an Approved: header). No-mod, no-restrict is the least > painful for the owner, but I guess we should leave it up to the SIG > owner to decide the post policy. I would strongly suggest that all sigs start as open as possible and that moderation or restrict-post only be added when there's a proven need (i.e. when the list is being abused more than sporadically). > These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, index, > info, which, who. My preference for the SIG lists is to make these > non-private (non-members can use them too). Again, we can decide this > on a per-list basis. Anyway, restricting these only makes sense if subscription is restricted... > Guido mentioned putting mail robots on some aliases which just send > back the SIG's info. Well, we probably don't need this because if > someone sends a message to -sig-request@python.org, perhaps > with the word `help' in the body, MD will by default send them some MD > help information, and then the list specific info file. Cool! > So... here are the aliases I propose setting up: > > General: > sigs -- alias to majordomo > sigs-info -- alias to sigs > owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?) I'm not sure that we need these... > Topics: > meta-sig -- a SIG about SIGs (owner: bwarsaw) > locator-sig -- Python Locator Service SIG (owner: peveritt) > docproj-sig -- Documentation Project SIG (owner: mclay) Perhaps just "doc-sig"? > gui-sig -- Common GUI SIG (owners: jfulton, klm) > matrix-sig -- Matrix Algebra SIG (owner: jfulton) > workshop-sig -- Workshop Organization SIG (owner: volunteers?) Add: opt-sig -- Optimization (owner: guido) > owner-psa -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt, > jfulton, nick That list is probably a bit big -- we don't need everyone in this list to see all the bounces and messages requiring approval. Anyway, what happens if there are two or more owners and both forward a message for approval? Does it get posted twice? On the other hand, if there is to be a list of the "PSA activists", I suggest adding Robin Friedrich . > [*]so when are we gonna see PSA checks from you non-CNRI'ers? :-) When someone (Paul? Michael?) sends a message to the list asking for checks... Currently the procedure for becoming a member isn't very clear at all from the Web server, and non-webbers don't know anything about this... > Python aliases would be similar to the PSA aliases, except that > subscription policy would be open, and there'd be no restrict-post. > For now python-list and python-list-request would be aliased to cwi.nl > but we'd move them over at some point. Since these are probably going > to be fairly large lists (do you know how many people, Guido?), we may > need to investigate something like the bulk_mail program which > supposedly speeds up sendmail delivered lists. Actually, there are currently only ~130 people subscribed, and it's not really growing (it was once at 200) because most people read it using News. > Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and python-gripes. > Do we need all these? Fine with me if we really do, but maybe > python-help or python-bugs would suffice. Alias all three to me, for now, so we can announce them. > python-developers? > > python-users? How would this differ from python-list? These two mailing lists serve different purposes from the list @ CWI. They are intended for those people who specifically don't want usenet news users to be part of their audience. We should probably discuss creation of these two on python-list@cwi.nl first. > Okay, so what do you all think? Have I missed anything? Anything not > make sense? At this point only pdo-admin and meta-sig actually exist. I suggest that it's up to the proposed owners to give Barry the go-ahead for creation of the list, after which the owner can then announce the creation of the SIG and its mailing list on the python-list. I'll add the SIGs to the relevant web page as they are created. I would like to also add the SIG's info (and perhaps other files) to the web page. This could be done automatically if I can find out why the http daemon currently doesn't seem to follow symbolic links... Perhaps Barry can suggest some boilerplate verbiage that the owner can include in the announcement, explaining how to use the SIG (so each owner doesn't have to write what's essentially the same text)? --Guido van Rossum URL: ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From Barry A. Warsaw" <9506212223.AA21570@spam.CNRI.Reston.Va.US> Message-ID: <9506212305.AA02414@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Me> The SIG's will be archived but not digestified, and the raw Me> archives will be `get'able via MD. GvR> For example, how do I get the archives for the pdo-admin GvR> list? In what format do I get it? If you mean, how does Joe Average get the archive via majordomo, they should just be able to send the message "get pdo-admin.archive" to pdo-admin-request@python.org. The actual file is kept in /home/majordomo/Files/pdo-admin/pdo-admin.archive MD's archiving is pretty dumb. It just appends every new message to this file. It would serve as raw input to whatever threading/html-izing engine you want to run on it. GvR> Once you know the password, how do you know the extended GvR> command set that this (presumably) enables? The password just enables basically two things, un/subscription requests and moderated/restrict-post posts. For the former you include the password in the long form of the subscribe command (see `help' sent to majordomo@python.org), and for the latter, you add an Approve: header with the value being the password. I'll have to re-read the FAQ to see if there's anything else. I just copied the latest version to /home/majordomo/FAQ. GvR> I would strongly suggest that all sigs start as open as GvR> possible and that moderation or restrict-post only be added GvR> when there's a proven need (i.e. when the list is being GvR> abused more than sporadically). I agree completely. Me> These MD commands can be restricted to list members only: get, Me> index, info, which, who. My preference for the SIG lists is Me> to make these non-private (non-members can use them too). Me> Again, we can decide this on a per-list basis. GvR> Anyway, restricting these only makes sense if subscription is GvR> restricted... Agreed. The only other scenario I can possibly imagine is a list who's members would like to remain anonymous. Well, this is Python after all, and not sex-with-furniture. :-) Me> sigs -- alias to majordomo Me> sigs-info -- alias to sigs Me> owner-sigs -- alias to majordomo-owner (or pdo-admin?) GvR> I'm not sure that we need these... You might be right. I think these were on somebody's earlier suggestion, but maybe they don't serve any purpose. Okay, bag these. GvR> Perhaps just "doc-sig"? We'll let Mike decide since he's going to own it... :-) GvR> opt-sig -- Optimization (owner: guido) I'd prefer optimize-sig. `Opt' always means `Optional' to me when I read it. Me> owner-psa -- rmasse, bwarsaw, guido, mclay, klm, peveritt, Me> jfulton, nick GvR> That list is probably a bit big -- we don't need everyone in GvR> this list to see all the bounces and messages requiring GvR> approval. Fine with me. Anybody want to take it on? Otherwise, I'll own it. GvR> Anyway, what happens if there are two or more owners and both GvR> forward a message for approval? Does it get posted twice? Could happen. There'd have to be some coordination between the owners, like Ken's primary owner, but if he's out of town I'll back him up. That kind of thing. GvR> On the other hand, if there is to be a list of the "PSA GvR> activists", I suggest adding Robin Friedrich GvR> . Oops, I meant to include him on meta-sig (I'll do so now). Sorry Robin. We did talk about a psa-sc list for Steering Committee members. Okay, add psa-sc to the list of lists... GvR> Actually, there are currently only ~130 people subscribed, GvR> and it's not really growing (it was once at 200) because most GvR> people read it using News. As I do. I think the most painful symptom of a list-too-big (smoke-too-much? :-) is that some people see responses to messages they haven't seen yet. I doubt 130 is too big, so let's not worry about it until it bcomes a problem. Me> Guido suggests setting up python-help, python-bugs, and Me> python-gripes. Do we need all these? Fine with me if we Me> really do, but maybe python-help or python-bugs would suffice. GvR> Alias all three to me, for now, so we can announce them. Okay, if you know what the distinction is, that's fine with me. GvR> These two mailing lists serve different purposes from the GvR> list @ CWI. They are intended for those people who GvR> specifically don't want usenet news users to be part of their GvR> audience. We should probably discuss creation of these two GvR> on python-list@cwi.nl first. Fine. GvR> Perhaps Barry can suggest some boilerplate verbiage that the GvR> owner can include in the announcement, explaining how to use GvR> the SIG (so each owner doesn't have to write what's GvR> essentially the same text)? What I've done before is basically send out the .info file and in there I try to outline some basic majordomo usage. Check out meta-sig's info for a boilerplate. If that's insufficient, I'll write more verbiage. -Barry ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org ================= From Barry A. Warsaw" ------- start of forwarded message (RFC 934 encapsulation) ------- A collection of SPAM Haiku ========================== Pink tender morsel, Glistening with salty gel. What the hell is it? -------------- Ears, snouts and inards, A homogeneous mass. Pass another slice. -------------- Cube of cold pinkness Yellow specks of porcine fat. Give me a spork please. -------------- Old man seeks doctor. "I eat SPAM daily", says he. Angioplasty. -------------- Highly unnatural, The tortured shape of this "food": A small pink coffin. ------- end ------- ================= META-SIG - SIG on Python.Org SIGs and Mailing Lists send messages to: meta-sig@python.org administrivia to: meta-sig-request@python.org =================