[melbourne-pug] [pyconau-orgs] Permanent links to Code of Conduct
Javier Candeira
javier at candeira.com
Fri Apr 17 00:10:17 CEST 2015
Thanks everyone. I have now changed the text in the wiki and the mailing
list web interface to point to the Linux Australia Code of Conduct.
(Especially to the people who said nice things about me: double thanks.)
See you around,
Javier
On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com>
wrote:
> Hi, Simon, thanks for the careful reading of the CoC under discussion, and
> for your response.
>
> The way to improve MPUG's shared CoC with LA would be to offer patches to
> the LA CoC, which MPUG would follow by reference. After all, LA/PyconAU
> also have mailing lists, so their code also has to deal with online
> behaviour.
>
> Regards,
>
> Javier
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Simon Cropper <
> simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Having carefully read the Linux Australia Code of Conduct stored here
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md
>>
>> I believe that it provides a reasonable starting point for MPUG's code of
>> conduct.
>>
>> It does however serve as a template for their conferences - an activity
>> that equates to the monthly MPUG meetings - but does not address other
>> activities that open source communities are usually involved -- website
>> design, on-line content creation, email lists, fora, etc.
>>
>> Consequently, at some stage, the text will need to be augmented to ensure
>> all activities are covered or generalized to act as a set of principles
>> community members abide.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/04/15 22:14, Mike Dewhirst wrote:
>>
>>> Hear hear!
>>>
>>> On 12/04/2015 7:11 PM, Chris Maclachlan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,Â
>>>>
>>>> I've been lurking on the list for about a year, and I've only been to
>>>> one MPUG meetup so far - but I've read the entire discussion around this
>>>> with some interest. The community seems to be open, friendly, welcoming,
>>>> well-behaved and professional, so the discussion of a need for a code of
>>>> conduct at all initially surprised me - but having given it some
>>>> thought, I've seen first-hand how one bad seed can ruin things for
>>>> everyone, and it's frustrating at the best of times when it happens -
>>>> doubly so when the rules weren't laid down from the start.Â
>>>>
>>>> So, having said all that, as a humble list-lurker, I just wanted to
>>>> personally voice my approval and support for MPUG adopting the Linux AU
>>>> CoC. I think it will provide a good underpinning for this group, and
>>>> encourage professionalism and inclusiveness without imposing any
>>>> overbearing regulations.Â
>>>>
>>>> (Also, I think it's fantastic that Javier has championed this effort,
>>>> and I love the transparent and democratic method in which he's gone
>>>> about it. We're lucky to have people like him as part of this
>>>> community). Â
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Â
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 10:39 PM Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com
>>>> <mailto:javier at candeira.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi MPUG.
>>>>
>>>> As you can see by the discussion with Pycon AU and Linux Australia
>>>> people (quoted below), they think MPUG should move to the Linux
>>>> Australia Code of Conduct. It will be soon the one used by Pycon AU
>>>> as well anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I've been persuaded, and I will change the links in the wiki and the
>>>> mailing list website header if no strong dissent is registered on
>>>> this list in the next 48 hours. Hopefully this will be the end of
>>>> this matter.
>>>>
>>>> If instead of dissent you want to express approval and support,
>>>> that's cool as well. In fact I'd personally appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Javier
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Javier Candeira <
>>>> javier at candeira.com
>>>> <mailto:javier at candeira.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Chris.
>>>>
>>>> If Pycon AU adopts the LA code of conduct, that would make me (I
>>>> speak personally) want MPUG to adopt it too. And many of the
>>>> other reasons for it (MPUG organisers and presenters are also
>>>> involved with Pycon, so their acceptance of the CoC is a given
>>>> in many cases) would stand too. Let's say that we'd be adopting
>>>> the Pycon AU CoC by reference, not by value.
>>>>
>>>> Note that it's my opinion that a small user group has different
>>>> dynamics than a big conference, so the language itself did not
>>>> bother me much. I think the signaling aspect of having a CoC at
>>>> all and the commitment of the organisers to take issues seriusly
>>>> is much more important than the wording of the CoC. Having said
>>>> that, it's always better to adopt a well-maintained document.
>>>>
>>>> For the reasons above I'm going to suggest on the MPUG list that
>>>> we adopt the LA CoC too, "since it's the one used by Pycon AU".
>>>> When do you expect/hope the Pycon AU organisation to make the
>>>> decision to switch?
>>>>
>>>> J
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Chris Neugebauer
>>>> <chrisjrn at gmail.com <mailto:chrisjrn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 9 April 2015 at 04:06, Joshua Hesketh <
>>>> josh at nitrotech.org
>>>> <mailto:josh at nitrotech.org>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > The code of conduct isn't hard coded into the source but
>>>> rather supplied as
>>>> > part of the content management system built into
>>>> zookeepr. This year the URL
>>>> > is here:http://2015.pycon-au.org/register/code_of_conduct
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm actually surprised PyCon AU hasn't moved to Linux
>>>> Australia's one which
>>>> > has had a lot of work put into it and been exercised at
>>>> multiple different
>>>> > events (including debconf and others outside of just
>>>> Linux Australia). I
>>>> > understand less people of MPUG may have seen it, but I
>>>> personally don't see
>>>> > that as a reason not to use it.
>>>> >
>>>> > There is no obvious license on the pyconau 2015 code of
>>>> conduct so I'll
>>>> > leave that to others to reply.
>>>>
>>>> Javier,
>>>>
>>>> Some explanation as to the current code of conduct; some
>>>> detailed
>>>> reasons as to why you shouldn't adopt it; and some reasons
>>>> if you do
>>>> decide to adopt it, why you shouldn't link back to PyCon
>>>> AU's instance
>>>> of it.
>>>>
>>>> A large part of the reason why PyCon AU has continued to use
>>>> the older
>>>> CoC is inertia -- many PyCon sponsors (especially the Python
>>>> Software
>>>> Foundation themselves) have required a declaration that a
>>>> conference
>>>> would adopt a code of conduct before agreeing to sponsor.
>>>> Pointing
>>>> back at an old Code of Conduct (which has been used
>>>> successfully for
>>>> some years now) has been sufficient for that.
>>>>
>>>> Certainly when I was directly involved in the day-to-day
>>>> running of
>>>> the conference, I was hesitant to change the code after
>>>> telling the
>>>> sponsor what our decision was.
>>>>
>>>> This year I've been responding with the historical code and
>>>> the LA
>>>> code. I've flagged with Clinton the intention of using the
>>>> Linux
>>>> Australia code of conduct, and I believe consideration has
>>>> been given
>>>> to this.
>>>>
>>>> My view is that MPUG should be adopting a LA's code of
>>>> conduct, or a
>>>> variant thereof, rather than the historical PyCon AU one:
>>>>
>>>> - It is more detailed than PyCon AU's, but it covers all
>>>> of the
>>>> provisions of the old PyCon AU code of conduct.
>>>> - Likewise, the LA code of conduct, written after PyCon AU's
>>>> contains
>>>> many of identical provisions: enforcement rules, and the
>>>> preamble,
>>>> were taken almost identically from the PyCon AU 2011 code.
>>>> - It is not location-specific -- PyCon AU's code specifies
>>>> things
>>>> specific to the location of the conference. MPUG would need
>>>> to fork
>>>> PyCon AU's code of conduct in order to make it appropriate
>>>> to their
>>>> place of meeting.
>>>> - PyCon AU's code of conduct specifies in detail expected
>>>> behaviour of
>>>> presenters[0], but much less so for delegates
>>>> - LA's code of conduct has been iterated by several
>>>> organisations
>>>> other than LA, including Debconf, which has resulted in
>>>> amending
>>>> language where the code has proved problematic to enforce
>>>> [1][2].
>>>>
>>>> As for whether you should be linking to PyCon AU's code
>>>> directly, I
>>>> also say no:
>>>> - If you adopt the 2014 version, you'll be telling your
>>>> members that
>>>> you'll alert Queensland police to incidents.
>>>> - the code will not remain static over the years. The
>>>> current code
>>>> requires minor changes every two years.
>>>> - There is also the chance that we'll change the code
>>>> completely (i.e.
>>>> to adopt LA's code of conduct).
>>>>
>>>> --Chris
>>>>
>>>> [0] A large part of this is, in my opinion, due to when the
>>>> code was
>>>> written, and the concerns of the community at the time
>>>> [1]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/b8dfbb633bdb7ad1d16dee39f746345b2b85cfd8
>>>>
>>>> [2]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/linuxaustralia/constitution_and_policies/commit/043e78288a33615f8dca775ce0857c37e6a7f660
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --Christopher Neugebauer
>>>>
>>>> Jabber: chrisjrn at gmail.com <mailto:chrisjrn at gmail.com> --
>>>> IRC: chrisjrn on irc.freenode.net
>>>> <http://irc.freenode.net> --
>>>> WWW: http://chris.neugebauer.id.au -- Twitter: @chrisjrn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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