From sam at nipl.net  Wed Aug  1 09:19:59 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:19:59 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
Message-ID: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>

hi there,

I'm learning python, I like it and thought I'd join this group.

I wrote some code to 'find files' with os.walk, like a simple UNIX find.
I'm hoping someone can take a look and suggest some improvements.
It's about 1 page of code.

  http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py

I'm very happy to do a similar code review for you,
I can maybe help, but my python skills are a bit blunt!

thanks,

Sam


From miked at dewhirst.com.au  Wed Aug  1 09:45:37 2012
From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 17:45:37 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
Message-ID: <5018DEA1.2030601@dewhirst.com.au>

On 1/08/2012 5:19pm, Sam Watkins wrote:
> hi there,
>
> I'm learning python, I like it and thought I'd join this group.
>
> I wrote some code to 'find files' with os.walk, like a simple UNIX find.
> I'm hoping someone can take a look and suggest some improvements.
> It's about 1 page of code.

I think the trend nowadays in python coding is to be a little more 
explicit than yesteryear - perhaps more like this ...

#def ls(dir, hidden=0, relative=1):
def ls(dir, hidden=False, relative=True):
     #list = []
     # personally I'm uncomfortable using Python core words but ymmv
     list = list()
     for nm in os.listdir(dir):
         #if not hidden and nm[0] == '.':
         if not hidden and nm.startswith('.'):
             continue
         if not relative:
             nm = os.path.join(dir, nm)
         list.append(nm)
     list.sort()
     return list

#def find(root, files=1, dirs=0, hidden=0, relative=1, topdown=1):
def find(root, files=True, dirs=False, hidden=False, relative=True, 
topdown=True):
     root = os.path.join(root, '')  # add slash if not there
     #root_len = len(root)
     for parent, ldirs, lfiles in os.walk(root, topdown=topdown):
         if relative:
             #parent = parent[root_len:]
             parent = parent[len(root):]
         if dirs and parent:
             yield os.path.join(parent, '')
         if not hidden:
             #lfiles   = [nm for nm in lfiles if nm[0] != '.']
             lfiles   = [nm for nm in lfiles if not nm.startswith('.')]
             #ldirs[:] = [nm for nm in ldirs  if nm[0] != '.']  # in place
             ldirs[:] = [nm for nm in ldirs  if not nm.startswith('.')] 
  # in place
         if files:
             lfiles.sort()
             for nm in lfiles:
                 nm = os.path.join(parent, nm)
                 yield nm





>
>    http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
>
> I'm very happy to do a similar code review for you,
> I can maybe help, but my python skills are a bit blunt!
>
> thanks,
>
> Sam
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>


From william.leslie.ttg at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 10:08:51 2012
From: william.leslie.ttg at gmail.com (William ML Leslie)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:08:51 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <5018DEA1.2030601@dewhirst.com.au>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
	<5018DEA1.2030601@dewhirst.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAHgd1hGGK+vEt7hyx=yfyAC2b7j-SqZSfiqmN+rQ2Fyk+avQiw@mail.gmail.com>

list = list() is an unbound local error. (worries me a bit that people
can't figure out python's scoping rules - are we not explaining them
properly? They are mostly straightforward if you ignore class scope.)

On 01/08/2012 6:02 PM, "Mike Dewhirst" <miked at dewhirst.com.au> wrote:

On 1/08/2012 5:19pm, Sam Watkins wrote:
>
> hi there,
>
> I'm learning python, I like it and thought...
I think the trend nowadays in python coding is to be a little more explicit
than yesteryear - perhaps more like this ...

#def ls(dir, hidden=0, relative=1):
def ls(dir, hidden=False, relative=True):
    #list = []
    # personally I'm uncomfortable using Python core words but ymmv
    list = list()
    for nm in os.listdir(dir):
        #if not hidden and nm[0] == '.':
        if not hidden and nm.startswith('.'):
            continue
        if not relative:
            nm = os.path.join(dir, nm)
        list.append(nm)
    list.sort()
    return list

#def find(root, files=1, dirs=0, hidden=0, relative=1, topdown=1):
def find(root, files=True, dirs=False, hidden=False, relative=True,
topdown=True):
    root = os.path.join(root, '')  # add slash if not there
    #root_len = len(root)
    for parent, ldirs, lfiles in os.walk(root, topdown=topdown):
        if relative:
            #parent = parent[root_len:]
            parent = parent[len(root):]
        if dirs and parent:
            yield os.path.join(parent, '')
        if not hidden:
            #lfiles   = [nm for nm in lfiles if nm[0] != '.']
            lfiles   = [nm for nm in lfiles if not nm.startswith('.')]
            #ldirs[:] = [nm for nm in ldirs  if nm[0] != '.']  # in place
            ldirs[:] = [nm for nm in ldirs  if not nm.startswith('.')]  #
in place
        if files:
            lfiles.sort()
            for nm in lfiles:
                nm = os.path.join(parent, nm)
                yield nm







>
>    http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
>
> I'm very happy to do a similar code review ...
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From anthony.briggs at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 10:18:40 2012
From: anthony.briggs at gmail.com (Anthony Briggs)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:18:40 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <CAHgd1hGGK+vEt7hyx=yfyAC2b7j-SqZSfiqmN+rQ2Fyk+avQiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
	<5018DEA1.2030601@dewhirst.com.au>
	<CAHgd1hGGK+vEt7hyx=yfyAC2b7j-SqZSfiqmN+rQ2Fyk+avQiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO4-3898=JBXKJZ8whySEpHzwSq7h1NS0JU0H29D1FqgwOT9_w@mail.gmail.com>

Better not to use builtins as variable names in the first place though.

On 1 August 2012 18:08, William ML Leslie <william.leslie.ttg at gmail.com>wrote:

> list = list() is an unbound local error. (worries me a bit that people
> can't figure out python's scoping rules - are we not explaining them
> properly? They are mostly straightforward if you ignore class scope.)
>
> On 01/08/2012 6:02 PM, "Mike Dewhirst" <miked at dewhirst.com.au> wrote:
>
> On 1/08/2012 5:19pm, Sam Watkins wrote:
> >
> > hi there,
> >
> > I'm learning python, I like it and thought...
>
> I think the trend nowadays in python coding is to be a little more
> explicit than yesteryear - perhaps more like this ...
>
> #def ls(dir, hidden=0, relative=1):
> def ls(dir, hidden=False, relative=True):
>     #list = []
>     # personally I'm uncomfortable using Python core words but ymmv
>     list = list()
>     for nm in os.listdir(dir):
>         #if not hidden and nm[0] == '.':
>         if not hidden and nm.startswith('.'):
>             continue
>         if not relative:
>             nm = os.path.join(dir, nm)
>         list.append(nm)
>     list.sort()
>     return list
>
> #def find(root, files=1, dirs=0, hidden=0, relative=1, topdown=1):
> def find(root, files=True, dirs=False, hidden=False, relative=True,
> topdown=True):
>     root = os.path.join(root, '')  # add slash if not there
>     #root_len = len(root)
>     for parent, ldirs, lfiles in os.walk(root, topdown=topdown):
>         if relative:
>             #parent = parent[root_len:]
>             parent = parent[len(root):]
>         if dirs and parent:
>             yield os.path.join(parent, '')
>         if not hidden:
>             #lfiles   = [nm for nm in lfiles if nm[0] != '.']
>             lfiles   = [nm for nm in lfiles if not nm.startswith('.')]
>             #ldirs[:] = [nm for nm in ldirs  if nm[0] != '.']  # in place
>             ldirs[:] = [nm for nm in ldirs  if not nm.startswith('.')]  #
> in place
>         if files:
>             lfiles.sort()
>             for nm in lfiles:
>                 nm = os.path.join(parent, nm)
>                 yield nm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >    http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
> >
> > I'm very happy to do a similar code review ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
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From darius at obsidian.com.au  Wed Aug  1 10:04:36 2012
From: darius at obsidian.com.au (KevinL)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:04:36 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
Message-ID: <FCB23443-976E-4F6B-82BA-467E8E819105@obsidian.com.au>

Couple of very quick comments - use true and false, not 1 and 0, and don't use reserved words as variable names (list in this case). Thats just a brief glance while I'm watching telly, others may have more feedback.

Kjl

---
Kevin Littlejohn
Obsidian Consulting Group
Ph: +613 9355 6844

On 01/08/2012, at 17:19, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:

> hi there,
> 
> I'm learning python, I like it and thought I'd join this group.
> 
> I wrote some code to 'find files' with os.walk, like a simple UNIX find.
> I'm hoping someone can take a look and suggest some improvements.
> It's about 1 page of code.
> 
>  http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
> 
> I'm very happy to do a similar code review for you,
> I can maybe help, but my python skills are a bit blunt!
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Sam
> 
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug

From n6151h at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 10:35:11 2012
From: n6151h at gmail.com (N6151H)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:35:11 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
Message-ID: <CALz4+L+zzfeOGgrewbe3Ts1OBkJ3j9YAGJS1cZk7qEo_J4V4qA@mail.gmail.com>

For someone who's just learning python, you seem to have a very good grasp
of some of the more advanced concepts, such as iterators and list
"comprehension".  Yet, there are a few basics, as others have pointed out,
that are a bit off.   They seem, however, to do mainly with a lack of
familiarity with keywords or reserved words, which really isn't such a big
deal.   Use an editor that does (colored) syntax highlighting (I use
xemacs, but IDLE works, too as does vim) and you should be able to tell
from the color when a term like, for instance, "list" is reserved.

Otherwise, I thought it was nicely written.  Very readable, and ... it
works. :)   Keep up the learning.   (What other languages are you
proficient in?)

Cheers,
Nick


On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:

> hi there,
>
> I'm learning python, I like it and thought I'd join this group.
>
> I wrote some code to 'find files' with os.walk, like a simple UNIX find.
> I'm hoping someone can take a look and suggest some improvements.
> It's about 1 page of code.
>
>   http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
>
> I'm very happy to do a similar code review for you,
> I can maybe help, but my python skills are a bit blunt!
>
> thanks,
>
> Sam
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
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From javier at candeira.com  Wed Aug  1 10:41:57 2012
From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:41:57 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <CALz4+L+zzfeOGgrewbe3Ts1OBkJ3j9YAGJS1cZk7qEo_J4V4qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
	<CALz4+L+zzfeOGgrewbe3Ts1OBkJ3j9YAGJS1cZk7qEo_J4V4qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKADsbfATCYWZNSV8giRXq8KwqZoo4HLKKxVDsgu26PpWbi3HQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:35 PM, N6151H <n6151h at gmail.com> wrote:
> Otherwise, I thought it was nicely written.  Very readable, and ... it
> works. :)   Keep up the learning.   (What other languages are you proficient
> in?)

Sam may be new at Python, but... just check out *one* of his many projects:

http://sam.nipl.net/brace/

Hi Sam!

o/

J

From daryl at commoncode.com.au  Wed Aug  1 12:16:04 2012
From: daryl at commoncode.com.au (Daryl Antony)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 20:16:04 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] melbourne-pug Digest, Vol 74, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.97.1343815204.26244.melbourne-pug@python.org>
References: <mailman.97.1343815204.26244.melbourne-pug@python.org>
Message-ID: <A93C93352F7F45C88509098E2AA2C14D@acommoncreative.com>

Hey Pythonista's,

We're on a general look out for Django/Python skilled fellows, as well as related clientside tech' particulary Backbone.js through Django-Tastypie -- as well as the rest of the eco system of interesting Python problems to solve :)

Looking forward to meeting you. 

# Daryl Antony

class CommonCode(object):
    mobile = '+61 423 972 657'
    address = '114 Hoddle Street, Abbotsford 3067'

    def follow_tweets(self):
        twitter.follow('@DarylAntony')


On Wednesday, 1 August 2012 at 8:00 PM, melbourne-pug-request at python.org wrote:

> Send melbourne-pug mailing list submissions to
> melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> melbourne-pug-request at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug-request at python.org)
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> melbourne-pug-owner at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug-owner at python.org)
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of melbourne-pug digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: hi, python peeps (KevinL)
> 2. Re: hi, python peeps (N6151H)
> 3. Re: hi, python peeps (Javier Candeira)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:04:36 +1000
> From: KevinL <darius at obsidian.com.au (mailto:darius at obsidian.com.au)>
> To: Melbourne Python Users Group <melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)>
> Cc: "melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)" <melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)>
> Subject: Re: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
> Message-ID: <FCB23443-976E-4F6B-82BA-467E8E819105 at obsidian.com.au (mailto:FCB23443-976E-4F6B-82BA-467E8E819105 at obsidian.com.au)>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Couple of very quick comments - use true and false, not 1 and 0, and don't use reserved words as variable names (list in this case). Thats just a brief glance while I'm watching telly, others may have more feedback.
> 
> Kjl
> 
> ---
> Kevin Littlejohn
> Obsidian Consulting Group
> Ph: +613 9355 6844
> 
> On 01/08/2012, at 17:19, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net (mailto:sam at nipl.net)> wrote:
> 
> > hi there,
> > 
> > I'm learning python, I like it and thought I'd join this group.
> > 
> > I wrote some code to 'find files' with os.walk, like a simple UNIX find.
> > I'm hoping someone can take a look and suggest some improvements.
> > It's about 1 page of code.
> > 
> > http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
> > 
> > I'm very happy to do a similar code review for you,
> > I can maybe help, but my python skills are a bit blunt!
> > 
> > thanks,
> > 
> > Sam
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > melbourne-pug mailing list
> > melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:35:11 +1000
> From: N6151H <n6151h at gmail.com (mailto:n6151h at gmail.com)>
> To: Melbourne Python Users Group <melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)>
> Subject: Re: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
> Message-ID:
> <CALz4+L+zzfeOGgrewbe3Ts1OBkJ3j9YAGJS1cZk7qEo_J4V4qA at mail.gmail.com (mailto:CALz4+L+zzfeOGgrewbe3Ts1OBkJ3j9YAGJS1cZk7qEo_J4V4qA at mail.gmail.com)>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> For someone who's just learning python, you seem to have a very good grasp
> of some of the more advanced concepts, such as iterators and list
> "comprehension". Yet, there are a few basics, as others have pointed out,
> that are a bit off. They seem, however, to do mainly with a lack of
> familiarity with keywords or reserved words, which really isn't such a big
> deal. Use an editor that does (colored) syntax highlighting (I use
> xemacs, but IDLE works, too as does vim) and you should be able to tell
> from the color when a term like, for instance, "list" is reserved.
> 
> Otherwise, I thought it was nicely written. Very readable, and ... it
> works. :) Keep up the learning. (What other languages are you
> proficient in?)
> 
> Cheers,
> Nick
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net (mailto:sam at nipl.net)> wrote:
> 
> > hi there,
> > 
> > I'm learning python, I like it and thought I'd join this group.
> > 
> > I wrote some code to 'find files' with os.walk, like a simple UNIX find.
> > I'm hoping someone can take a look and suggest some improvements.
> > It's about 1 page of code.
> > 
> > http://sam.nipl.net/code/python/find.py
> > 
> > I'm very happy to do a similar code review for you,
> > I can maybe help, but my python skills are a bit blunt!
> > 
> > thanks,
> > 
> > Sam
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > melbourne-pug mailing list
> > melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> > 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20120801/41465e05/attachment-0001.html>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:41:57 +1000
> From: Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com (mailto:javier at candeira.com)>
> To: Melbourne Python Users Group <melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)>
> Subject: Re: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
> Message-ID:
> <CAKADsbfATCYWZNSV8giRXq8KwqZoo4HLKKxVDsgu26PpWbi3HQ at mail.gmail.com (mailto:CAKADsbfATCYWZNSV8giRXq8KwqZoo4HLKKxVDsgu26PpWbi3HQ at mail.gmail.com)>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 6:35 PM, N6151H <n6151h at gmail.com (mailto:n6151h at gmail.com)> wrote:
> > Otherwise, I thought it was nicely written. Very readable, and ... it
> > works. :) Keep up the learning. (What other languages are you proficient
> > in?)
> > 
> 
> 
> Sam may be new at Python, but... just check out *one* of his many projects:
> 
> http://sam.nipl.net/brace/
> 
> Hi Sam!
> 
> o/
> 
> J
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org (mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org)
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> 
> 
> End of melbourne-pug Digest, Vol 74, Issue 2
> ********************************************
> 
> 


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From sam at nipl.net  Wed Aug  1 16:15:45 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 00:15:45 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <CAKADsbfATCYWZNSV8giRXq8KwqZoo4HLKKxVDsgu26PpWbi3HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120801071959.GD2813@opal.nipl.net>
	<CALz4+L+zzfeOGgrewbe3Ts1OBkJ3j9YAGJS1cZk7qEo_J4V4qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKADsbfATCYWZNSV8giRXq8KwqZoo4HLKKxVDsgu26PpWbi3HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120801141545.GF2813@opal.nipl.net>

I'm not really 'new' at python, but I haven't used it very much, and I'm
not very good at it (esp. remembering how to do X, Y, Z) so I want to
learn it better.  I'm not just starting to learn it.

Thanks for the tips!

Sam

From ab.walker at optusnet.com.au  Fri Aug  3 13:50:37 2012
From: ab.walker at optusnet.com.au (ab.walker at optusnet.com.au)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 21:50:37 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] MPUG meeting next Monday, the 6th of August
Message-ID: <201208031150.q73BobtT022381@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>

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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20120803/69007a62/attachment.ksh>

From r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com  Sat Aug  4 04:04:41 2012
From: r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 12:04:41 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] MPUG meeting next Monday, the 6th of August
In-Reply-To: <201208031150.q73BobtT022381@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <201208031150.q73BobtT022381@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAHrZfZDpPOyh4ksr6=eBvjmtUBLo_LP9P7n1iCY7dvay8bNQig@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds good to me!

On 3 August 2012 21:50,  <ab.walker at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> If everyone is happy, Dan and I would would appreciate the chance to have a practice for some of the material for the upcoming PyConAU talk on "Python Powered Computational Geometry". We'll try and keep it to about 15 minutes, hopefully with some time to get some feedback at the end.
>
> Andrew Walker
>
>
>
>> Richard Jones <r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The next meeting, next Monday, is the last one before PyCon AU in
>> Hobart!
>>
>> We'll be meeting at Inspire9 in Richmond, from 6PM - details at
>> http://j.mp/mpug
>>
>> We can use this as an excuse to test-run some material for the
>> conference, or talk about anything else really. Feel free to step up
>> for a talk :-)
>>
>> There won't be sponsored pizza for this meeting. I imagine we'll pass
>> the hat around (about $10 each for those who want some.)
>>
>>
>>     Richard
>> _______________________________________________
>> melbourne-pug mailing list
>> melbourne-pug at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug

From gcross at fastmail.fm  Sun Aug  5 14:49:19 2012
From: gcross at fastmail.fm (Graeme Cross)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 22:49:19 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] MPUG meeting notes
In-Reply-To: <CAHrZfZDX-4LHNg1CT2M-EQDXwcDOJ48AVnquxYP3Rpz2rS+kvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZDX-4LHNg1CT2M-EQDXwcDOJ48AVnquxYP3Rpz2rS+kvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1344170959.32012.140661110907425.7125FE8B@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012, at 03:47 PM, Richard Jones wrote:
> The next meeting, next Monday, is the last one before PyCon AU in Hobart!
> 
> We'll be meeting at Inspire9 in Richmond, from 6PM - details at
> http://j.mp/mpug
> 

Hi all.

I usually take notes at each MPUG meeting and I've actually started
blogging them, so that (a) I have a record of what was discussed and (b)
people who don't get to MPUG meetings don't miss out completely.

I've put up my notes from the last two meetings. I have notes for the
rest of the meetings this year and will aim to post them over the next
month or so.

    June: http://www.curiousvenn.com/?p=17

    July: http://www.curiousvenn.com/?p=47

The usual caveats: the notes aren't meant to be a 100% complete
transcript (far from it) and any mistakes are more likely to be mine
than the original speaker's.

Regards
Graeme

From Katie.Hardy at medibankhealth.com.au  Mon Aug  6 02:48:48 2012
From: Katie.Hardy at medibankhealth.com.au (Katie Hardy)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:48:48 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Job opportunity with Medibank Health Solutions -
	Software Engineer in Test
Message-ID: <B1A26620AFF9B4419695C1B4DD3103BC016FBBF1@ausdcexch01.au.imckesson.com>

We are currently recruiting for a Software Engineer in Test. Please see
the link below for more information.

 

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding this
opportunity with Medibank Health Solutions.

 

http://careers.medibankhealth.com.au/caw/en/#/job/828778/software-engine
er-in-test

 

 

Kind regards,

Katie Hardy

 

 

Katie Hardy

Recruitment Consultant 

Medibank Health Solutions

 

T: 02 9425 3708

 

E: katie.hardy at medibankhealth.com.au
<mailto:katie.hardy at medibankhealth.com.au> 

W: www.medibankhealth.com.au/careers
<http://www.medibankhealth.com.au/careers> 

 


_________________________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System on behalf of Medibank Health Solutions.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
_________________________________________________________________________________________
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From gcross at fastmail.fm  Mon Aug  6 08:38:43 2012
From: gcross at fastmail.fm (Graeme Cross)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:38:43 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Fwd: [Melbourne-pm] OSDC Call for papers closes on
 Wednesday! (8th August)
References: <501F5D4C.7070902@perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <1344235123.9244.140661111168729.4F617878@webmail.messagingengine.com>

In case anyone is interested in submitting a paper to this year's OSDC,
details below.

Apologies if this is a repost, but I'm pretty sure (like the various
perl mongers) that we were not on the original distribution list for
this conference.

Regards
Graeme

----- Original message -----
From: Jacinta <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
To: Melbourne Perlmongers <melbourne-pm at pm.org>, sydney-pm at pm.org,
adelaide-pm at pm.org, perth-pm at pm.org, brisbane-pm at pm.org,
wellington-pm at pm.org
Subject: [Melbourne-pm] OSDC Call for papers closes on Wednesday! (8th 
August)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:59:40 +1000

G'day folk,

Just a reminder that the OSDC CFP is still marked to close on Wednesday, 
8th August.  I hope you've got your proposals in.

Had publicity happened correctly, you might have got the following 
message about 2 months ago.  But either way, it's time to submit!

	J

----------------------
Hi

This year's OSDC organising team in Sydney is pleased to announce that 
the call for papers for OSDC 2012 has officially opened, and we would 
like to invite you to submit an abstract for a talk at Australia's 
premier Open Source  annual conference.

OSDC is a grass-roots style conference by developers for developers. If 
you're developing something that's Open Source, or you are using Open 
Source tools within your business, this conference is for you.

The Call for Papers can be found at:
    http://www.osdc.com.au/call-for-papers
    CfP closes 8 August, 2012

This year, for four days starting December 4th, the Open Source 
Developers Conference is taking place in Sydney at the University of 
Technology, Broadway Campus. December 5th-8th is the main conference, 
and as is tradition with OSDC there will be a dinner event for all 
attendees (Thursday evening, December 6th).

December 4th will be a CMS Expo day, noting the importance of Content 
Management Systems in the current web environment. The day will be based 
around skill sharing tutorials, case studies and talks from contributors 
in Open Source CMS projects.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us
info (at) osdc (dot) com (dot) au http://www.osdc.com.au/

On behalf of the OSDC 2012 Sydney organising team,
AimeeMaree Forsstrom
_______________________________________________
Melbourne-pm mailing list
Melbourne-pm at pm.org
http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pm

From sam at nipl.net  Wed Aug  8 05:03:26 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 13:03:26 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] hi, python peeps
In-Reply-To: <FCB23443-976E-4F6B-82BA-467E8E819105@obsidian.com.au>
	<5018DEA1.2030601@dewhirst.com.au>
Message-ID: <20120808030326.GD3610@opal.nipl.net>

Thanks Mike and Kevin for the code review...
I updated my program with your suggestions.
  I owe you one.  :)

Sam

From leerick at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 03:21:45 2012
From: leerick at gmail.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 11:21:45 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
Message-ID: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about my situation.

I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with Django over the
past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an internship
would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd love to find a
small to medium sized startup-style company to intern with.  I'm most
interested in web development but could find valuable experience in most
fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part time to full time
for a couple of months.

Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've looked
around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies working with Python
as their main development language in Melbourne.

Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Rick

PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business management
experience under my belt if that helps at all.
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From simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com  Thu Aug  9 03:55:24 2012
From: simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com (Simon Cropper)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 11:55:24 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>

On 09/08/12 11:21, Rick Lee wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about my situation.
>
> I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with Django over the
> past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an internship
> would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd love to
> find a small to medium sized startup-style company to intern with.  I'm
> most interested in web development but could find valuable experience in
> most fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part time to full
> time for a couple of months.
>
> Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've
> looked around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies working
> with Python as their main development language in Melbourne.
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
>
> Rick
>
> PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business
> management experience under my belt if that helps at all.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>

Rick,

In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced 
workers. No one is willing to support you while you get a footing with 
any software language - regardless of your business knowledge or 
experience in using other programming languages.

My only suggestion would be to find a python package that interests you, 
in your case maybe Django, and get involved with its development. A 
couple of years of volunteering :) and you might be able to wrangle a 
job. Alternatively if you have an idea of a package you are interested 
in pursuing, start your own small package (e.g. a new FTP client or 
python bindings to interact with Facebook / Twitter). People who do this 
appear to have a greater profile in the community.

Progressively however I notice that every Python Job apart from 
requiring years of experience with specific packages, are pushing for 
appropriate computer/IT qualifications. It seems the days are gone where 
the self-taught programmer could get a jobs based on what they have 
done, since the initial sort in the recruitment process is based on 
primary qualification -- if it is not in programming or IT, your stuffed.

-- 
Cheers Simon


From dale at puredistortion.com  Thu Aug  9 05:38:06 2012
From: dale at puredistortion.com (Dale Stirling)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 13:38:06 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACiLJ3eWo0VbfucnGsKZ04zT3t-X=WCN5WodqKrq1MdBVD4xFg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Rick,

I work for a GIS company called we-do-IT. I am the development manager and
we have a team of developers who are a python focused development team.

We are currently looking for more passionate python developers of varying
skill level to join our team. We are currently involved in providing
integration support and customization on a product called SpatialNET using
its python API. One of our clients is NBN Co for this work.

If this is of interest to you please send me your resume so that I can get
this passed through HR and get the recruitment process started.

Any other questions please feel free to email.

Dale

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Rick Lee <leerick at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about my
> situation.
>
> I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with Django over the
> past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an internship
> would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd love to find a
> small to medium sized startup-style company to intern with.  I'm most
> interested in web development but could find valuable experience in most
> fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part time to full time
> for a couple of months.
>
> Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've looked
> around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies working with Python
> as their main development language in Melbourne.
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
>
> Rick
>
> PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business management
> experience under my belt if that helps at all.
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
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From hartror at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 06:12:02 2012
From: hartror at gmail.com (Rory Hart)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 14:12:02 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
Message-ID: <CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Simon Cropper <
simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote:

> On 09/08/12 11:21, Rick Lee wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about my
>> situation.
>>
>> I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with Django over the
>> past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an internship
>> would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd love to
>> find a small to medium sized startup-style company to intern with.  I'm
>> most interested in web development but could find valuable experience in
>> most fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part time to full
>> time for a couple of months.
>>
>> Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've
>> looked around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies working
>> with Python as their main development language in Melbourne.
>>
>> Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your help,
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business
>> management experience under my belt if that helps at all.
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> melbourne-pug mailing list
>> melbourne-pug at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug>
>>
>>
> Rick,
>
> In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced
> workers. No one is willing to support you while you get a footing with any
> software language - regardless of your business knowledge or experience in
> using other programming languages.
>
> My only suggestion would be to find a python package that interests you,
> in your case maybe Django, and get involved with its development. A couple
> of years of volunteering :) and you might be able to wrangle a job.
> Alternatively if you have an idea of a package you are interested in
> pursuing, start your own small package (e.g. a new FTP client or python
> bindings to interact with Facebook / Twitter). People who do this appear to
> have a greater profile in the community.
>
> Progressively however I notice that every Python Job apart from requiring
> years of experience with specific packages, are pushing for appropriate
> computer/IT qualifications. It seems the days are gone where the
> self-taught programmer could get a jobs based on what they have done, since
> the initial sort in the recruitment process is based on primary
> qualification -- if it is not in programming or IT, your stuffed.
>
> --
> Cheers Simon
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug>
>

I don't have formal qualifications. Once I got my foot in the door (through
freelancing initially) I've never had problems finding a position. I am not
sure about working for large organisations as all my positions have been
with SMEs however, this has also been true however for many of my previous
coworkers who have worked for larger more corporate companies.

Rick would I suggest you build up a portfolio with which to showcase your
work to prospective employers then start going for graduate/junior
positions, it is what I did when I started in the industry. This not only
shows off your skills but also speaks volumes for your work ethic and
motivation (things that good employers value more that number of years at
the coal face or pieces of paper). This portfolio can be as Simon suggests
contributing to open source projects, but it could also be working on your
own web application. The latter would be good direct experience in the area
you are looking at getting into and would likely complement your previous
business management experience especially if you have
an entrepreneurial bent.

-- 
Rory Hart
http://www.roryhart.net
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From ishwor.gurung at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 06:28:52 2012
From: ishwor.gurung at gmail.com (Ishwor Gurung)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 14:28:52 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
Message-ID: <CADU4sb854Y6Qm-YnMU62cknGa_5_wOX4aZN_G235hNyDpQkz4w@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 August 2012 11:55, Simon Cropper
<simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote:

[...]

> Rick,
>
> In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced workers.
> No one is willing to support you while you get a footing with any software
> language - regardless of your business knowledge or experience in using
> other programming languages.

^^^^^ Not entirely true. There are companies and shops that hire
entry-level programmers that may or may not have significant
proficiency in the desired language. In this case Python.  Essentially
to get one's feet wet and venture into the world of professional
software development. Educational institution is one (for the start).
Then, there are non-profit organisations that do that as well.

> My only suggestion would be to find a python package that interests you, in
> your case maybe Django, and get involved with its development. A couple of
> years of volunteering :) and you might be able to wrangle a job.

^^^ Nod. Writing code, researching, blogging and letting the world
know about your cool Python project is def the way to go. For sure.

[....]
-- 
Best regards,
Ishwor

From ishwor.gurung at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 06:31:27 2012
From: ishwor.gurung at gmail.com (Ishwor Gurung)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 14:31:27 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CADU4sb854Y6Qm-YnMU62cknGa_5_wOX4aZN_G235hNyDpQkz4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADU4sb854Y6Qm-YnMU62cknGa_5_wOX4aZN_G235hNyDpQkz4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADU4sb9Zsyc=pgjtLpt16B45qjUu5Vw=Hm_09oSdZg-x86Jsgg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 August 2012 14:28, Ishwor Gurung <ishwor.gurung at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9 August 2012 11:55, Simon Cropper
> <simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced workers.
>> No one is willing to support you while you get a footing with any software
>> language - regardless of your business knowledge or experience in using
>> other programming languages.
>
> ^^^^^ Not entirely true. There are companies and shops that hire
> entry-level programmers that may or may not have significant
s/that/who

[...]


-- 
Best regards,
Ishwor

From mydnite1 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 07:26:26 2012
From: mydnite1 at gmail.com (James Alford)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:26:26 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] [JOB] Contract Senior Python Web Developer - 6
	months
Message-ID: <CA+nj2LaJHPZCiyXAWGCLHF3kZ2i36iQZ7cLaOg4mWzNBJLvZBw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All

We are recruiting again at our company, we are looking for a senior
python web dev for a 6 month contract position.  If you are interested
please have a
look at the seek ad and apply through seek:

http://www.seek.com.au/Job/contract-senior-python-web-developer-6-months/in/melbourne-melbourne/22894689

Regards
James

From cmauriciop at yahoo.com.mx  Thu Aug  9 07:28:47 2012
From: cmauriciop at yahoo.com.mx (CMauricio Parra)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 22:28:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CADU4sb9Zsyc=pgjtLpt16B45qjUu5Vw=Hm_09oSdZg-x86Jsgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1344490127.5903.YahooMailClassic@web112603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I think the best way to get into the Coder Market is try to get a job as Apprentice which is not a well paid but if the company is focused to improve your coding and you are willing to be the best that is the way.
Now days most of the companies try to hire experienced worked because they need to be cost effective ($$$) you know what I mean. However due to skilled people shortage, some those are willing to sacrifice $$$ to get people in IT and work for them for a couple years.
?Getting involved in various projects are going to make you increase your experience and opportunities to get a job as a Python coder, sometimes those projects become in opportunities to start a business as well.
Mauritzio

--- On Wed, 8/8/12, Ishwor Gurung <ishwor.gurung at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ishwor Gurung <ishwor.gurung at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
To: "Melbourne Python Users Group" <melbourne-pug at python.org>
Received: Wednesday, 8 August, 2012, 11:31 PM

On 9 August 2012 14:28, Ishwor Gurung <ishwor.gurung at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9 August 2012 11:55, Simon Cropper
> <simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced workers.
>> No one is willing to support you while you get a footing with any software
>> language - regardless of your business knowledge or experience in using
>> other programming languages.
>
> ^^^^^ Not entirely true. There are companies and shops that hire
> entry-level programmers that may or may not have significant
s/that/who

[...]


-- 
Best regards,
Ishwor
_______________________________________________
melbourne-pug mailing list
melbourne-pug at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
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From mydnite1 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 07:35:49 2012
From: mydnite1 at gmail.com (James Alford)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:35:49 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] [JOB] Mid Level Python Web Developer (Full Time)
Message-ID: <CA+nj2LZrP35LHLVa45nr194z2sEJmPsXMtJMysi=EAY8NHdpYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All

We are recruiting again at our company and we are also looking for a
mid level python web dev for a full time position.  If you are
interested please have a look at the seek ad and apply through seek:

http://www.seek.com.au/Job/mid-level-python-web-developer-full-time/in/melbourne-melbourne/22894867

-- 
Regards

James Alford

From sam at nipl.net  Thu Aug  9 08:00:07 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 16:00:07 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
Message-ID: <20120809060006.GA20460@opal.nipl.net>

On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 11:55:24AM +1000, Simon Cropper wrote:
> Progressively however I notice that every Python Job apart from
> requiring years of experience with specific packages, are pushing
> haven't noticed appropriate computer/IT qualifications.

I don't have a degree (got bored with it), but have not had trouble
finding work.  Google has asked me to do interviews several times.
Google and Facebook accept "equivalent experience" in lieu of a degree
for many if not all positions.  Many local and smaller companies also
accept people based on skill and experience.

One good way to interview a programmer is to get them to code something.
The candidate should be allowed to use the internet, books, and other
reference material; that is allowed during actual work.
Look at their published work, check that they can read code,
check that they can explain the code they supposedly wrote.
Code should be concise, well-factored, simple and easy to understand.


From nick.mellor.groups at pobox.com  Thu Aug  9 07:59:56 2012
From: nick.mellor.groups at pobox.com (Nick Mellor)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:59:56 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <502351DC.2090600@pobox.com>

Hi simon, Rory,

My friend down the road is a self-taught Drupalista (9 years' 
experience) with a Town Planning degree. He's coining it in. Turned down 
al-Jazeera not long ago.

So it's still possible.

Best,

Nick

On 9/08/2012 2:12 PM, Rory Hart wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Simon Cropper 
> <simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com 
> <mailto:simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 09/08/12 11:21, Rick Lee wrote:
>
>         Hello everyone,
>
>         I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about
>         my situation.
>
>         I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with
>         Django over the
>         past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an
>         internship
>         would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd
>         love to
>         find a small to medium sized startup-style company to intern
>         with.  I'm
>         most interested in web development but could find valuable
>         experience in
>         most fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part
>         time to full
>         time for a couple of months.
>
>         Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've
>         looked around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies
>         working
>         with Python as their main development language in Melbourne.
>
>         Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?
>
>         Thanks in advance for your help,
>
>         Rick
>
>         PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business
>         management experience under my belt if that helps at all.
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         melbourne-pug mailing list
>         melbourne-pug at python.org <mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org>
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
>     Rick,
>
>     In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced
>     workers. No one is willing to support you while you get a footing
>     with any software language - regardless of your business knowledge
>     or experience in using other programming languages.
>
>     My only suggestion would be to find a python package that
>     interests you, in your case maybe Django, and get involved with
>     its development. A couple of years of volunteering :) and you
>     might be able to wrangle a job. Alternatively if you have an idea
>     of a package you are interested in pursuing, start your own small
>     package (e.g. a new FTP client or python bindings to interact with
>     Facebook / Twitter). People who do this appear to have a greater
>     profile in the community.
>
>     Progressively however I notice that every Python Job apart from
>     requiring years of experience with specific packages, are pushing
>     for appropriate computer/IT qualifications. It seems the days are
>     gone where the self-taught programmer could get a jobs based on
>     what they have done, since the initial sort in the recruitment
>     process is based on primary qualification -- if it is not in
>     programming or IT, your stuffed.
>
>     -- 
>     Cheers Simon
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     melbourne-pug mailing list
>     melbourne-pug at python.org <mailto:melbourne-pug at python.org>
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
> I don't have formal qualifications. Once I got my foot in the door 
> (through freelancing initially) I've never had problems finding a 
> position. I am not sure about working for large organisations as all 
> my positions have been with SMEs however, this has also been true 
> however for many of my previous coworkers who have worked for larger 
> more corporate companies.
>
> Rick would I suggest you build up a portfolio with which to showcase 
> your work to prospective employers then start going for 
> graduate/junior positions, it is what I did when I started in the 
> industry. This not only shows off your skills but also speaks volumes 
> for your work ethic and motivation (things that good employers value 
> more that number of years at the coal face or pieces of paper). This 
> portfolio can be as Simon suggests contributing to open source 
> projects, but it could also be working on your own web application. 
> The latter would be good direct experience in the area you are looking 
> at getting into and would likely complement your previous business 
> management experience especially if you have an entrepreneurial bent.
>
> -- 
> Rory Hart
> http://www.roryhart.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug


-- 

Logo 	Nick Mellor1300 485 114
Alexander Technique Teacher and IT Consultant
Villa Rosa, 5 Campbell Street, Newstead, VIC, 3462
http://www.back-pain-self-help.com

                    hand-written initials

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From kevin at littlejohn.id.au  Thu Aug  9 08:08:43 2012
From: kevin at littlejohn.id.au (Kevin Littlejohn)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 16:08:43 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <20120809060006.GA20460@opal.nipl.net>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<20120809060006.GA20460@opal.nipl.net>
Message-ID: <CAK8Zf_j19-zM1Rruy57SLksVv3PATPgeoHKKa31M0bknMnk5dQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'll chip in and point out that my ex-company, Obsidian Consulting Group,
has frequently hired people either with no training/straight out of uni, or
people who know java and need retraining.  We currently have two part-time
interns and two recent hires that started with little to no python
expertise.  So it's not true at all that python houses in Melbourne require
experience for all roles.  We've always accepted that it's likely we'll
have to train people in python or the specific techs we use anyway.

I'll underscore the comments from others, though - if you can show
involvement in an open source project or two, that goes a long way (and
gives you some experience in working with others, general coding, etc).

KJL

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 11:55:24AM +1000, Simon Cropper wrote:
> > Progressively however I notice that every Python Job apart from
> > requiring years of experience with specific packages, are pushing
> > haven't noticed appropriate computer/IT qualifications.
>
> I don't have a degree (got bored with it), but have not had trouble
> finding work.  Google has asked me to do interviews several times.
> Google and Facebook accept "equivalent experience" in lieu of a degree
> for many if not all positions.  Many local and smaller companies also
> accept people based on skill and experience.
>
> One good way to interview a programmer is to get them to code something.
> The candidate should be allowed to use the internet, books, and other
> reference material; that is allowed during actual work.
> Look at their published work, check that they can read code,
> check that they can explain the code they supposedly wrote.
> Code should be concise, well-factored, simple and easy to understand.
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
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From nick.mellor.groups at pobox.com  Thu Aug  9 08:37:29 2012
From: nick.mellor.groups at pobox.com (Nick Mellor)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:37:29 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <502351DC.2090600@pobox.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<502351DC.2090600@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <50235AA9.4030103@pobox.com>

Hi Sam,

Just to add: said Drupalista is active in open source, talks at 
conferences, tweets and chats on IRC quite a bit. Raising his profile is 
part of what has worked well for him.

Another idea. Perhaps you have a mate who wants to put their business 
online?

I have only a modest amount of Python experience but have been lucky 
enough to be asked to do a small online shop for a friend who is 
starting a new business.

That was word of mouth-- but also he liked me talking up the possibility 
of selling the shop functionality once it was finished. If we build his 
shop then sell the same kind of shop to others of the same ilk then he 
and I can earn a monthly fee from those other shops.

So everyone's happy. My friend gets to defray his (large) setup costs, 
perhaps even turn a profit on having his own website developed. I get to 
write once sell many times. And our future clients get a cheap and 
polished website with most bugs ironed out.

Best,

Nick

On 9/08/2012 3:59 PM, Nick Mellor wrote:
> Hi simon, Rory,
>
> My friend down the road is a self-taught Drupalista (9 years' 
> experience) with a Town Planning degree. He's coining it in. Turned 
> down al-Jazeera not long ago.
>
> So it's still possible.
>
> Best,
>
> Nick

	

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From noonslists at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 09:40:12 2012
From: noonslists at gmail.com (Noon Silk)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 17:40:12 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADt_azbmKP-oFU62gbvwWg+0TFXzdVBoOzFQ8urCbJN9hszEDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Rick Lee <leerick at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about my situation.
>
> I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with Django over the
> past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an internship
> would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd love to find a
> small to medium sized startup-style company to intern with.  I'm most
> interested in web development but could find valuable experience in most
> fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part time to full time for
> a couple of months.
>
> Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've looked
> around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies working with Python
> as their main development language in Melbourne.
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?

Just some comments on "internships" in general; I think you should be
mildly cautious about people wanting you to work for nothing. It would
seem to me that you just *being there* will actually cost a given
company money in the time it takes to train you, so even you working
for "nothing" is costing them something. In some sense, then, you
should just request a salary so that it acknowledges the benefits you
are providing via programming ability. Sure, it will be a junior
salary for someone just starting; but it shouldn't be 0. That is to
say, in some sense you're devaluing your own contribution before you
get in the door.

As to general open-source work - I "somewhat" agree with people about
contributing to open-source projects; but I tend to think that finding
your own things to do is probably better. Of course, if you don't have
your own things to do, then doing random work on some arbitrary
project might be a good idea. I also think the idea of volunteering
with various places (i.e. charities, etc) to be a good idea in
principle, but I've never actually heard of anyone doing it; nor have
done it myself.

As for how to get such a job - I guess semi-randomly clicking around
on LinkedIn might lead to companies; I suppose also searching for
people who are on this list and seeing where they work may also help;
and of course just attending various meetups and chatting to people :)


> Thanks in advance for your help,
>
> Rick
>
> PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business management
> experience under my belt if that helps at all.

-- 
Noon Silk

Fancy a quantum lunch? https://sites.google.com/site/quantumlunch/

"Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy
of being this signature."

From andrew.fort at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 09:56:12 2012
From: andrew.fort at gmail.com (Andreux Fort)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 17:56:12 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>

Companies want that which is hard to find: the programmer who codes 1000
lines a day vs. 100 (read Brooks' "Mythical Man Month" for more).

But enthusiasm is a major part of that, in my experience. "Smart" people
can get in the way of a project where dedicated people get shit done.

When I hire, I look for two things. Smart, and gets things done. As long as
you're smart enough, the latter is most important :)
On Aug 9, 2012 2:12 PM, "Rory Hart" <hartror at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Simon Cropper <
> simoncropper at fossworkflowguides.com> wrote:
>
>> On 09/08/12 11:21, Rick Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I just realized that this would be the best group to ask about my
>>> situation.
>>>
>>> I have been learning Python and getting my feet wet with Django over the
>>> past couple of months.  I've reached a point where getting an internship
>>> would definitely accelerate my learning and experience.  I'd love to
>>> find a small to medium sized startup-style company to intern with.  I'm
>>> most interested in web development but could find valuable experience in
>>> most fields I reckon. I'd be looking for anything from part time to full
>>> time for a couple of months.
>>>
>>> Any ideas of who I could contact that fits this description?  I've
>>> looked around a bit but I've had a hard time finding companies working
>>> with Python as their main development language in Melbourne.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Opinions? Two cents?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your help,
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> PS: I'm a late bloomer in the dev scene but have some business
>>> management experience under my belt if that helps at all.
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> melbourne-pug mailing list
>>> melbourne-pug at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug>
>>>
>>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> In general, as is always the case, companies only want experienced
>> workers. No one is willing to support you while you get a footing with any
>> software language - regardless of your business knowledge or experience in
>> using other programming languages.
>>
>> My only suggestion would be to find a python package that interests you,
>> in your case maybe Django, and get involved with its development. A couple
>> of years of volunteering :) and you might be able to wrangle a job.
>> Alternatively if you have an idea of a package you are interested in
>> pursuing, start your own small package (e.g. a new FTP client or python
>> bindings to interact with Facebook / Twitter). People who do this appear to
>> have a greater profile in the community.
>>
>> Progressively however I notice that every Python Job apart from requiring
>> years of experience with specific packages, are pushing for appropriate
>> computer/IT qualifications. It seems the days are gone where the
>> self-taught programmer could get a jobs based on what they have done, since
>> the initial sort in the recruitment process is based on primary
>> qualification -- if it is not in programming or IT, your stuffed.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers Simon
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> melbourne-pug mailing list
>> melbourne-pug at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug>
>>
>
> I don't have formal qualifications. Once I got my foot in the door
> (through freelancing initially) I've never had problems finding a
> position. I am not sure about working for large organisations as all my
> positions have been with SMEs however, this has also been true however for
> many of my previous coworkers who have worked for larger more corporate
> companies.
>
> Rick would I suggest you build up a portfolio with which to showcase your
> work to prospective employers then start going for graduate/junior
> positions, it is what I did when I started in the industry. This not only
> shows off your skills but also speaks volumes for your work ethic and
> motivation (things that good employers value more that number of years at
> the coal face or pieces of paper). This portfolio can be as Simon suggests
> contributing to open source projects, but it could also be working on your
> own web application. The latter would be good direct experience in the area
> you are looking at getting into and would likely complement your previous
> business management experience especially if you have
> an entrepreneurial bent.
>
> --
> Rory Hart
> http://www.roryhart.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
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From sam at nipl.net  Thu Aug  9 11:08:26 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 19:08:26 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>

Andreux Fort wrote:
> Companies want that which is hard to find: the programmer who codes 1000
> lines a day vs. 100 (read Brooks' "Mythical Man Month" for more).

No, no!  Less is more!

If I'm hiring, I would want:

- coder can remove / compact 100 lines per day
- coder can finish most jobs in < 1000 lines of code (not in one day)
- coder can do common tasks in one line of shell script
- resume in roff format ;)


Some examples of 'less is more' from the Plan 9 project:

kenc - Ken Thompson's C Compilers
  http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/new_c_compilers/new_c_compiler.pdf
  http://gsoc.cat-v.org/projects/kencc/

9base - Plan 9 tools for Unix
  http://tools.suckless.org/9base

"It also contains the Plan 9 libc, libbio, libregexp, libfmt and libutf.
 The overall SLOC is about 66kSLOC, so this userland + all libs is much smaller
 than, e.g. bash (duh!)."

Also:
  http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
  http://swtch.com/plan9port/

I'm looking forward to receive the Plan 9 manuals and papers.
Here's where you can get some, if you like:
  http://www.vitanuova.com/plan9/products.html


From noonslists at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 11:31:08 2012
From: noonslists at gmail.com (Noon Silk)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 19:31:08 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>
Message-ID: <CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:
> Andreux Fort wrote:
>> Companies want that which is hard to find: the programmer who codes 1000
>> lines a day vs. 100 (read Brooks' "Mythical Man Month" for more).
>
> No, no!  Less is more!
>
> If I'm hiring, I would want:
>
> - coder can remove / compact 100 lines per day
> - coder can finish most jobs in < 1000 lines of code (not in one day)
> - coder can do common tasks in one line of shell script
> - resume in roff format ;)

Hah, indeed :) And of course the claim that "getting things done" is a
the truly best measure is, of course, trivially wrong unless you
consider also the ongoing "cost" of "getting things done" vs "getting
things right". But in spirit it's a useful measure; which is probably
the way it was intended.

I'm sad to say I've never heard of "roff" format; but would you accept
pandocs extended markdown? :)


> Some examples of 'less is more' from the Plan 9 project:
>
> kenc - Ken Thompson's C Compilers
>   http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/new_c_compilers/new_c_compiler.pdf
>   http://gsoc.cat-v.org/projects/kencc/
>
> 9base - Plan 9 tools for Unix
>   http://tools.suckless.org/9base
>
> "It also contains the Plan 9 libc, libbio, libregexp, libfmt and libutf.
>  The overall SLOC is about 66kSLOC, so this userland + all libs is much smaller
>  than, e.g. bash (duh!)."
>
> Also:
>   http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
>   http://swtch.com/plan9port/
>
> I'm looking forward to receive the Plan 9 manuals and papers.
> Here's where you can get some, if you like:
>   http://www.vitanuova.com/plan9/products.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug


-- 
Noon Silk

Fancy a quantum lunch? https://sites.google.com/site/quantumlunch/

"Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy
of being this signature."

From andrew.fort at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 14:17:27 2012
From: andrew.fort at gmail.com (Andreux Fort)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 22:17:27 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>
	<CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+e6ONxL_LmtT9pYsNWvgNLCW+C3nCZPV6kHQm4YVtbryy_zUw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm glad I encouraged some sane discussion :)

Yes, LOC counts are awfully poor measurements. My argument is that there is
a lot of variability in ability. Brooks measured it one way, in the 1960s.

"Gets shit done" is my measure, but very hard to interview for (if I'm
wrong, tell me your secrets ;).

I stand by "is smart, gets things done", as difficult as the latter (and as
easy as the former) is to identify.

Noon, I agree with your measures, but ask how you interview for that.

The folks related to but not cited there are well worth a mention too (e.g.
rsc, r, presotto). I've had the pleasure of working with some of them
(briefly) and could not agree more.... with "less is more".
 On Aug 9, 2012 7:31 PM, "Noon Silk" <noonslists at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:
> > Andreux Fort wrote:
> >> Companies want that which is hard to find: the programmer who codes 1000
> >> lines a day vs. 100 (read Brooks' "Mythical Man Month" for more).
> >
> > No, no!  Less is more!
> >
> > If I'm hiring, I would want:
> >
> > - coder can remove / compact 100 lines per day
> > - coder can finish most jobs in < 1000 lines of code (not in one day)
> > - coder can do common tasks in one line of shell script
> > - resume in roff format ;)
>
> Hah, indeed :) And of course the claim that "getting things done" is a
> the truly best measure is, of course, trivially wrong unless you
> consider also the ongoing "cost" of "getting things done" vs "getting
> things right". But in spirit it's a useful measure; which is probably
> the way it was intended.
>
> I'm sad to say I've never heard of "roff" format; but would you accept
> pandocs extended markdown? :)
>
>
> > Some examples of 'less is more' from the Plan 9 project:
> >
> > kenc - Ken Thompson's C Compilers
> >   http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/new_c_compilers/new_c_compiler.pdf
> >   http://gsoc.cat-v.org/projects/kencc/
> >
> > 9base - Plan 9 tools for Unix
> >   http://tools.suckless.org/9base
> >
> > "It also contains the Plan 9 libc, libbio, libregexp, libfmt and libutf.
> >  The overall SLOC is about 66kSLOC, so this userland + all libs is much
> smaller
> >  than, e.g. bash (duh!)."
> >
> > Also:
> >   http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
> >   http://swtch.com/plan9port/
> >
> > I'm looking forward to receive the Plan 9 manuals and papers.
> > Here's where you can get some, if you like:
> >   http://www.vitanuova.com/plan9/products.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > melbourne-pug mailing list
> > melbourne-pug at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
> --
> Noon Silk
>
> Fancy a quantum lunch? https://sites.google.com/site/quantumlunch/
>
> "Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy
> of being this signature."
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
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From kevin at littlejohn.id.au  Thu Aug  9 14:39:26 2012
From: kevin at littlejohn.id.au (Kevin Littlejohn)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 22:39:26 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CA+e6ONxL_LmtT9pYsNWvgNLCW+C3nCZPV6kHQm4YVtbryy_zUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>
	<CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONxL_LmtT9pYsNWvgNLCW+C3nCZPV6kHQm4YVtbryy_zUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D701E011-641E-49D8-B8E3-D47E2DCB41EC@littlejohn.id.au>

The closest we ever got to defining what to interview for was "spark" - it's a combination of how enthusiastic someone is, how well they know their field (and note, that doesn't have to necessarily be the field they're interviewing for - I would look for someone to light up about _something_, you'd be surprised how often that didn't happen...), and how well they got on with the interviewees (social fit is crucial for most small organisations - I'd argue in some cases it's more important than actual knowledge - you can teach a programming language, you struggle to teach someone not to rub people the wrong way).

Oh, bonus points for being interested in a wide range of things - while coders that sit in a cubicle and turn out solid code are well worthwhile, people who want to take responsibility for everything around them whether it's part of their direct line of work or not are pure gold.

I pretty much gave up trying to measure actual coding ability in an interview - that's what the three month trial period after hire is for.  I've had people I was convinced a month in weren't much chop turn out by three months to be churning through work, so trying to figure that out in an interview is, I think, asking a bit much.  And again, we typically train or retrain, so there's limits on what you can work out in an interview anyway.

All IMNSHO :)

KJL

---
Kevin Littlejohn
Obsidian Consulting Group
Ph: +613 9355 6844

On 09/08/2012, at 22:17, Andreux Fort <andrew.fort at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm glad I encouraged some sane discussion :)
> 
> Yes, LOC counts are awfully poor measurements. My argument is that there is a lot of variability in ability. Brooks measured it one way, in the 1960s.
> 
> "Gets shit done" is my measure, but very hard to interview for (if I'm wrong, tell me your secrets ;).
> 
> I stand by "is smart, gets things done", as difficult as the latter (and as easy as the former) is to identify.
> 
> Noon, I agree with your measures, but ask how you interview for that.
> 
> The folks related to but not cited there are well worth a mention too (e.g. rsc, r, presotto). I've had the pleasure of working with some of them (briefly) and could not agree more.... with "less is more".
> On Aug 9, 2012 7:31 PM, "Noon Silk" <noonslists at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:
> > Andreux Fort wrote:
> >> Companies want that which is hard to find: the programmer who codes 1000
> >> lines a day vs. 100 (read Brooks' "Mythical Man Month" for more).
> >
> > No, no!  Less is more!
> >
> > If I'm hiring, I would want:
> >
> > - coder can remove / compact 100 lines per day
> > - coder can finish most jobs in < 1000 lines of code (not in one day)
> > - coder can do common tasks in one line of shell script
> > - resume in roff format ;)
> 
> Hah, indeed :) And of course the claim that "getting things done" is a
> the truly best measure is, of course, trivially wrong unless you
> consider also the ongoing "cost" of "getting things done" vs "getting
> things right". But in spirit it's a useful measure; which is probably
> the way it was intended.
> 
> I'm sad to say I've never heard of "roff" format; but would you accept
> pandocs extended markdown? :)
> 
> 
> > Some examples of 'less is more' from the Plan 9 project:
> >
> > kenc - Ken Thompson's C Compilers
> >   http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/new_c_compilers/new_c_compiler.pdf
> >   http://gsoc.cat-v.org/projects/kencc/
> >
> > 9base - Plan 9 tools for Unix
> >   http://tools.suckless.org/9base
> >
> > "It also contains the Plan 9 libc, libbio, libregexp, libfmt and libutf.
> >  The overall SLOC is about 66kSLOC, so this userland + all libs is much smaller
> >  than, e.g. bash (duh!)."
> >
> > Also:
> >   http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
> >   http://swtch.com/plan9port/
> >
> > I'm looking forward to receive the Plan 9 manuals and papers.
> > Here's where you can get some, if you like:
> >   http://www.vitanuova.com/plan9/products.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > melbourne-pug mailing list
> > melbourne-pug at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> 
> 
> --
> Noon Silk
> 
> Fancy a quantum lunch? https://sites.google.com/site/quantumlunch/
> 
> "Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy
> of being this signature."
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
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From sam at nipl.net  Thu Aug  9 16:38:44 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:38:44 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>
	<CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120809143844.GC20460@opal.nipl.net>

> I'm sad to say I've never heard of "roff" format

.TH TROFF 1
.SH NAME
troff, nroff, dpost \- text formatting and typesetting

"roff was the first Unix text-formatting computer program, the most
important application run on the first machine specifically purchased to
run UNIX, and a predecessor of the nroff and troff document processing
systems.  It was a Unix version of the runoff text-formatting program
from Multics, which was a descendant of RUNOFF for CTSS (the first
computerized text-formatting application).  The first UNIX version was a
transliteration of the BCPL version of runoff into PDP-7 assembly, for
the prototype UNIX on the PDP-7, circa 1970. When the first PDP-11 was
acquired for UNIX in late 1970 (a PDP-11/20), the justification cited to
management for the funding required was that it was to be used as a word
processing system, and so roff was quickly transliterated again, into
PDP-11 assembly, in 1971.  Dennis Ritchie notes that the ability to
rapidly modify roff (because it was locally written software) to provide
special features needed by the Bell Labs Patent department was an
important factor in leading to the adoption of UNIX by the Patent
department to fill their word processing needs. This in turn gave UNIX
enough credibility inside Bell Labs to secure the funding to purchase
one of the first PDP-11/45s produced; it was on that machine that UNIX
evolved into the system that later took the computer science world by
storm."

publications that use troff -
  http://www.troff.org/pubs.html

(not many compared to TeX!
 but also all of the UNIX, Linux and Plan 9 manual pages)

From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 00:45:40 2012
From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 08:45:40 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship
In-Reply-To: <20120809143844.GC20460@opal.nipl.net>
References: <CAJ=V14hmFNYejY6Dwiym+T7MGPM7CMwBWULAG6UoN_eaNDSPSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5023188C.3040003@fossworkflowguides.com>
	<CADf+qJe-u7=OMNHUUZ3Rstvg2ZJPyG5Yd+DAwr7612RLpuA-eA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+e6ONwXGgtvPm0L+45jVHUscde3uwTux3UN6jYe9MN_KFgnmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120809090826.GB20460@opal.nipl.net>
	<CADt_azZ882PkipzYAsWxstaFhsXXF8Ycv4+mcLCVOULzF9HcLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120809143844.GC20460@opal.nipl.net>
Message-ID: <CADhgxgdnWvRPTwJgUTK=yBjz=Z18TSiVwkOcOyNcfc0Tbuif7Q@mail.gmail.com>

How long would you be considering interning for?

I'm pretty sure if you just rocked up at a co-working space social event
and looked around for projects, you'd find something you could contribute
to, and it might even go somewhere. Maybe find a startup that needs what
you already know, and you can learn to code while they benefit from your
knowledge of the business...?

Cheers,
-T

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:38 AM, Sam Watkins <sam at nipl.net> wrote:

> > I'm sad to say I've never heard of "roff" format
>
> .TH TROFF 1
> .SH NAME
> troff, nroff, dpost \- text formatting and typesetting
>
> "roff was the first Unix text-formatting computer program, the most
> important application run on the first machine specifically purchased to
> run UNIX, and a predecessor of the nroff and troff document processing
> systems.  It was a Unix version of the runoff text-formatting program
> from Multics, which was a descendant of RUNOFF for CTSS (the first
> computerized text-formatting application).  The first UNIX version was a
> transliteration of the BCPL version of runoff into PDP-7 assembly, for
> the prototype UNIX on the PDP-7, circa 1970. When the first PDP-11 was
> acquired for UNIX in late 1970 (a PDP-11/20), the justification cited to
> management for the funding required was that it was to be used as a word
> processing system, and so roff was quickly transliterated again, into
> PDP-11 assembly, in 1971.  Dennis Ritchie notes that the ability to
> rapidly modify roff (because it was locally written software) to provide
> special features needed by the Bell Labs Patent department was an
> important factor in leading to the adoption of UNIX by the Patent
> department to fill their word processing needs. This in turn gave UNIX
> enough credibility inside Bell Labs to secure the funding to purchase
> one of the first PDP-11/45s produced; it was on that machine that UNIX
> evolved into the system that later took the computer science world by
> storm."
>
> publications that use troff -
>   http://www.troff.org/pubs.html
>
> (not many compared to TeX!
>  but also all of the UNIX, Linux and Plan 9 manual pages)
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>



-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Leeuwenburg
http://myownhat.blogspot.com/
"Don't believe everything you think"
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From leerick at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 03:45:11 2012
From: leerick at gmail.com (leerick)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 11:45:11 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship (Rick Lee)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11143.1344515979.4696.melbourne-pug@python.org>
References: <mailman.11143.1344515979.4696.melbourne-pug@python.org>
Message-ID: <4705D06A-608A-44C1-9A5D-6DF4225136FF@gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone for their responses.  Sounds like there are some mixed opinions from "you're pretty much screwed" to "just keep working solo until you have some running examples of what you can do on your own" to "get an entry level job, work hard, and learn as you go".

Also thanks to the companies and startups who've contacted me outside the list.  It's encouraging to see how many projects are being worked on with Python in Melbourne.  I'll be contacting you all shortly!

As for Andreux who's hijacked the thread to talk about interview techniques, I agree with Kevin.  When I was doing interviews for vet nurses the most important factor was the "spark".  A combination between enthusiasm, confidence, wits, and ability to learn.  I often chose those with less experience because it meant we could mold them into the type of nurse our clinics demanded.

Cheers,
Rick

From afort at choqolat.org  Fri Aug 10 04:02:39 2012
From: afort at choqolat.org (Andrew Fort)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:02:39 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] finding an internship (Rick Lee)
In-Reply-To: <4705D06A-608A-44C1-9A5D-6DF4225136FF@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.11143.1344515979.4696.melbourne-pug@python.org>
	<4705D06A-608A-44C1-9A5D-6DF4225136FF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+e6ONyS2r_6Fx+PH=aCdfUdLhX49OQRRMt3QWR9V6g=8kR+qw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:45 AM, leerick <leerick at gmail.com> wrote:

> As for Andreux who's hijacked the thread to talk about interview techniques, I agree with Kevin.  When I was doing interviews for vet nurses the most important factor was the "spark".  A combination between enthusiasm, confidence, wits, and ability to learn.  I often chose those with less experience because it meant we could mold them into the type of nurse our clinics demanded.

Umm, cheers?

I wrote that on a phone in a hurry, so my apologies. I feel ability !=
experience. If one has code examples (or a whole project) that you can
quiz them on, that's ideal, and that's the sort of programming
questions I like to ask. So, yes, write as much code as you can
without the experience of coworkers, and do something novel. Not sure
how that's hijacking, since that was an answer to your question :).

>
> Cheers,
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug



-- 
Andrew Fort (afort at choqolat.org)

From sam at nipl.net  Mon Aug 13 10:56:14 2012
From: sam at nipl.net (Sam Watkins)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:56:14 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] open pandora
Message-ID: <20120813085614.GG6199@opal.nipl.net>

(And yes, of course it comes with Python installed.)

I'm total ignorant businessly, however here is my new Aussie shop
for selling Pandora and various extraneous arcana:

http://pandoria.org/shop.html

If you love Linux, like to play games, and have pockets,
you really *do* need one of these!

This is a sort-of-commerical or spammish email, but if it's any
consolation for a grumpy moderator, I doubt I'll make any money!

From gcross at fastmail.fm  Tue Aug 14 14:08:18 2012
From: gcross at fastmail.fm (Graeme Cross)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:08:18 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] My notes from this month's MPUG meeting
Message-ID: <1344946098.29807.140661114658409.61A87965@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi everyone.

For those who missed last week's meeting, I've put up my notes from the
August MPUG meeting:

http://www.curiousvenn.com/?p=81

As always, any errors are bound to be mine! :)

Regards
Graeme

From anton.winter at supercoders.com.au  Fri Aug 17 02:18:47 2012
From: anton.winter at supercoders.com.au (Anton Winter)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:18:47 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] is it ok to post jobs to this list?
Message-ID: <CD390101DD584D46A6AF21E5DF9D978E@dudePC>

Anton Winter
0478 7514 15

www.supercoders.com.au
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From hartror at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 02:39:39 2012
From: hartror at gmail.com (Rory Hart)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:39:39 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] is it ok to post jobs to this list?
In-Reply-To: <CD390101DD584D46A6AF21E5DF9D978E@dudePC>
References: <CD390101DD584D46A6AF21E5DF9D978E@dudePC>
Message-ID: <CADf+qJfoygXpAdiCqv=7GZNEv0bcwQsjoLxFzxGt7Gs9RMkNZA@mail.gmail.com>

It certainly is, as long as they are python related.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Anton Winter <
anton.winter at supercoders.com.au> wrote:

>   Anton Winter
> 0478 7514 15
>
> www.supercoders.com.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>


-- 
Rory Hart
http://www.roryhart.net
http://www.relishment.com
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From anton.winter at supercoders.com.au  Fri Aug 17 03:13:22 2012
From: anton.winter at supercoders.com.au (Anton Winter)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:13:22 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Melbourne job : Senior Python dev sci-fi
	blockbuster job $140k inc super
In-Reply-To: <CADf+qJfoygXpAdiCqv=7GZNEv0bcwQsjoLxFzxGt7Gs9RMkNZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CD390101DD584D46A6AF21E5DF9D978E@dudePC>
	<CADf+qJfoygXpAdiCqv=7GZNEv0bcwQsjoLxFzxGt7Gs9RMkNZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AFB8DE76452C48DEB64BC2F5830C15D2@dudePC>

Melbourne job : Senior Python dev sci-fi blockbuster job $140k inc super

**Senior Python development role
**Work for a global Hollywood studio
**Well paid, sci-fi blockbuster job

The role
=======
Without a doubt, this is the most exciting job in Australia.

The company
===========
You will be taking a job with a major Hollywood studio at the heart of the 
high budget sci fi blockbuster Hollywood movies.  Think of sci fi movies 
created over the last few years and chances are these guys were a big part 
of making the movie.

The project
=========
The spec is to build a global distributed system that will assist movie 
makers and become a major keystone in the workflow of making sci-fi 
blockbusters for Hollywood.


The project is building a global distributed system forming an online 
content library of animations (things such as references of people walking, 
jumping etc), images, sounds, 2D and 3D assets including things like 
flowers, water, clouds, faces.  The content browser will be web browser 
based and integrated with professional animation and image tools such as 
Maya, Photoshop, Nuke and Houdini.

The skeleton framework and architecture are in place, now the project needs 
to be fleshed out.

The technology
============
Python
Distributed software architecture
Web services
Distributed message queues
Cassandra
Kafka
Redis
Tornado
Nginx
Python package management and release
Python templating system

The role
=======
The developer for this role is either a hands on architect or a very senior 
developer with deep knowledge on how to build web services using message 
queues.

Enormous data-files need to be transferred across the globe, so thoughts or 
experience on how to solve this challenge

You will need
===========
** The ability to communicate technically and in depth about webservices and 
distributed architecture
** Strong problem solving capability
** Passion for Python coding
** First class understanding of object oriented programming concepts
** An ability to come up with good solutions to programming problems

To apply, send your resume to  apply at supercoders.com.au    IMPORTANT subject 
line must include ?Senior Python engineer?



Anton Winter
0478 7514 15

From jon at willowit.com.au  Wed Aug 22 01:46:22 2012
From: jon at willowit.com.au (Jonathan Wilson)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:46:22 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Looking for a Linux administrator
Message-ID: <CANnnaGHDMRBtWhfyY-dJojgp8sqTGZy+jy5QAFW6MWnHqUhsZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We're looking for a young enthusiastic Linux administrator with a passion
for open source and related technologies to work in a small, dedicated
group with lots of opportunities to expand knowledge and experience.

Refer to the job ad posted on seek.com.au:
http://www.seek.com.au/Job/linux-and-open-source-specialist/in/melbourne-bayside-south-eastern-suburbs/22948049

Job ads close on Sunday, look forward to your entries.


Jonathan Wilson
www.willowit.com.au
ph: +61 3 8506 0393
mob: +61 4 000 17 444
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From javier at candeira.com  Wed Aug 22 11:52:18 2012
From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:52:18 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Looking for a Linux administrator
In-Reply-To: <CANnnaGHDMRBtWhfyY-dJojgp8sqTGZy+jy5QAFW6MWnHqUhsZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANnnaGHDMRBtWhfyY-dJojgp8sqTGZy+jy5QAFW6MWnHqUhsZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKADsbcmkr=+tOzNzcfey3ck4J0cyxrJ-Yi8f3io2ekqp9=qVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Jonathan Wilson <jon at willowit.com.au>wrote:

> We're looking for a young enthusiastic Linux administrator with a passion
> for open source and related


Surely you are looking for an enthusiastic Linux administrator with a
passion for open source *of any age*, since requiring a given age in a job
posting is against the law.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/age/info_age.html

Young and energetic regards,

J
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From noonslists at gmail.com  Wed Aug 22 13:56:22 2012
From: noonslists at gmail.com (Noon Silk)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:56:22 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Looking for a Linux administrator
In-Reply-To: <CAKADsbcmkr=+tOzNzcfey3ck4J0cyxrJ-Yi8f3io2ekqp9=qVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANnnaGHDMRBtWhfyY-dJojgp8sqTGZy+jy5QAFW6MWnHqUhsZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKADsbcmkr=+tOzNzcfey3ck4J0cyxrJ-Yi8f3io2ekqp9=qVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADt_azbq9HOaWSRi8HHPVKM+iv10TjTT+yfxO+y64aVRr_33jg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Jonathan Wilson <jon at willowit.com.au>
> wrote:
>>
>> We're looking for a young enthusiastic Linux administrator with a passion
>> for open source and related
>
> Surely you are looking for an enthusiastic Linux administrator with a
> passion for open source *of any age*, since requiring a given age in a job
> posting is against the law.

I read "young" as "junior". But I agree with your implication.


> http://www.hreoc.gov.au/age/info_age.html
>
> Young and energetic regards,
>
> J

-- 
Noon Silk

Fancy a quantum lunch? https://sites.google.com/site/quantumlunch/

"Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy
of being this signature."

From r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 07:18:34 2012
From: r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:18:34 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
Message-ID: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
and Djonic and so forth.

Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!

Note also that the 2012/13 PyCon AU team have asked for people
interested in running 2014/15 to get in touch with them for
preliminary chats. No commitment is being asked at this time - hell
you don't even need a vague plan. If you're even vaguely interested
but a little unsure please don't hesitate to talk to me about it. I'll
set you straight :-)


    Richard

From benno at jeamland.net  Mon Aug 27 07:28:38 2012
From: benno at jeamland.net (Benno Rice)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:28:38 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE049D39-6E59-4E45-8791-DA27EF11B8D6@jeamland.net>


On 27/08/2012, at 3:18 PM, Richard Jones <r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
> debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
> and Djonic and so forth.
> 
> Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
> topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!

Has anyone done a demo of deploying a Django app to Heroku? I'd happily work that up as a 10 minuter or something like that.

-- 
Benno Rice
benno at jeamland.net


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From noonslists at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 10:27:57 2012
From: noonslists at gmail.com (Noon Silk)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 18:27:57 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADt_azZopVghLgVd2AcicLiVDN4GdJ_XzvwdcFg7zxsm8t_ROg@mail.gmail.com>

I'll put my hand up for a brief talk/demo on "visualsing function calls".


On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Richard Jones <r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
> debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
> and Djonic and so forth.
>
> Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
> topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!
>
> Note also that the 2012/13 PyCon AU team have asked for people
> interested in running 2014/15 to get in touch with them for
> preliminary chats. No commitment is being asked at this time - hell
> you don't even need a vague plan. If you're even vaguely interested
> but a little unsure please don't hesitate to talk to me about it. I'll
> set you straight :-)
>
>
>     Richard
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug



-- 
Noon Silk

Fancy a quantum lunch? https://sites.google.com/site/quantumlunch/

"Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy ? the joy
of being this signature."

From javier at candeira.com  Mon Aug 27 11:04:24 2012
From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 19:04:24 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <CADt_azZopVghLgVd2AcicLiVDN4GdJ_XzvwdcFg7zxsm8t_ROg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADt_azZopVghLgVd2AcicLiVDN4GdJ_XzvwdcFg7zxsm8t_ROg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKADsbdzSg8s6_rY6c64gHw+Otb2KZWu9T6-VcbEmY=biqQ41Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Noon Silk <noonslists at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll put my hand up for a brief talk/demo on "visualsing function calls".

That sounds great!

J

From gcross at fastmail.fm  Thu Aug 30 06:57:35 2012
From: gcross at fastmail.fm (Graeme Cross)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:57:35 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A79EC40-C7FF-4B49-8ADB-70AE9E9EC33D@fastmail.fm>

Anyone want to join me to cover some of the highlights of PyCon AU?


On 27/08/2012, at 3:18 PM, Richard Jones wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
> debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
> and Djonic and so forth.
> 
> Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
> topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!
> 
> Note also that the 2012/13 PyCon AU team have asked for people
> interested in running 2014/15 to get in touch with them for
> preliminary chats. No commitment is being asked at this time - hell
> you don't even need a vague plan. If you're even vaguely interested
> but a little unsure please don't hesitate to talk to me about it. I'll
> set you straight :-)
> 
> 
>    Richard


From javier at candeira.com  Thu Aug 30 07:34:19 2012
From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:34:19 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <1A79EC40-C7FF-4B49-8ADB-70AE9E9EC33D@fastmail.fm>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1A79EC40-C7FF-4B49-8ADB-70AE9E9EC33D@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <CAKADsbeuKqBAs7k9xd8cJvcv4z-d7zOAOntGCbu8R2m17QarSQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can do 5 minutes on a snippet I put together this week for my Monash
colleagues that involves memoization, magic dunder functions and
more...

J

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Graeme Cross <gcross at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Anyone want to join me to cover some of the highlights of PyCon AU?
>
>
> On 27/08/2012, at 3:18 PM, Richard Jones wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
>> debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
>> and Djonic and so forth.
>>
>> Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
>> topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!
>>
>> Note also that the 2012/13 PyCon AU team have asked for people
>> interested in running 2014/15 to get in touch with them for
>> preliminary chats. No commitment is being asked at this time - hell
>> you don't even need a vague plan. If you're even vaguely interested
>> but a little unsure please don't hesitate to talk to me about it. I'll
>> set you straight :-)
>>
>>
>>    Richard
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug

From javier at candeira.com  Thu Aug 30 08:08:04 2012
From: javier at candeira.com (Javier Candeira)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:08:04 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <CAKADsbeuKqBAs7k9xd8cJvcv4z-d7zOAOntGCbu8R2m17QarSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1A79EC40-C7FF-4B49-8ADB-70AE9E9EC33D@fastmail.fm>
	<CAKADsbeuKqBAs7k9xd8cJvcv4z-d7zOAOntGCbu8R2m17QarSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKADsbfK+ab=nFysjFSxKtArD0Du=X=7sm5GW=Fy+_5mJ_4f2A@mail.gmail.com>

Also highlights of PyCon AU, of course. Let's draw lists.

J

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com> wrote:
> I can do 5 minutes on a snippet I put together this week for my Monash
> colleagues that involves memoization, magic dunder functions and
> more>
> J
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Graeme Cross <gcross at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> Anyone want to join me to cover some of the highlights of PyCon AU?
>>
>>
>> On 27/08/2012, at 3:18 PM, Richard Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
>>> debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
>>> and Djonic and so forth.
>>>
>>> Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
>>> topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!
>>>
>>> Note also that the 2012/13 PyCon AU team have asked for people
>>> interested in running 2014/15 to get in touch with them for
>>> preliminary chats. No commitment is being asked at this time - hell
>>> you don't even need a vague plan. If you're even vaguely interested
>>> but a little unsure please don't hesitate to talk to me about it. I'll
>>> set you straight :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>    Richard
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> melbourne-pug mailing list
>> melbourne-pug at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug

From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 31 03:41:50 2012
From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:41:50 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Next MPUG meeting is next Monday the 3rd of
	September!
In-Reply-To: <CAKADsbfK+ab=nFysjFSxKtArD0Du=X=7sm5GW=Fy+_5mJ_4f2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHrZfZBrkDaAHW9iU8cjLuvDAL=utw9QqbmGjTQAKiaV=8HSTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1A79EC40-C7FF-4B49-8ADB-70AE9E9EC33D@fastmail.fm>
	<CAKADsbeuKqBAs7k9xd8cJvcv4z-d7zOAOntGCbu8R2m17QarSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKADsbfK+ab=nFysjFSxKtArD0Du=X=7sm5GW=Fy+_5mJ_4f2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADhgxgd5OqD_H6Ad9a8CPe1C6SA1wujA+JPMsVAPjUMiZdfq7A@mail.gmail.com>

I just installed something called gitlab for the devs at work to play with.
Think github for your intranet. Coupled with a CI server, it's basically a
turnkey-based project solution. Awesome!

-T

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com>wrote:

> Also highlights of PyCon AU, of course. Let's draw lists.
>
> J
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Javier Candeira <javier at candeira.com>
> wrote:
> > I can do 5 minutes on a snippet I put together this week for my Monash
> > colleagues that involves memoization, magic dunder functions and
> > more>
> > J
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Graeme Cross <gcross at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> >> Anyone want to join me to cover some of the highlights of PyCon AU?
> >>
> >>
> >> On 27/08/2012, at 3:18 PM, Richard Jones wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Fresh off the back of an awesome PyCon AU let's get together and
> >>> debrief / unwind / chat about all things Pythonic ... and Numpionic
> >>> and Djonic and so forth.
> >>>
> >>> Full meeting details are, as always, up at http://j.mp/mpug - talk
> >>> topics for the meeting are, as always, welcome!
> >>>
> >>> Note also that the 2012/13 PyCon AU team have asked for people
> >>> interested in running 2014/15 to get in touch with them for
> >>> preliminary chats. No commitment is being asked at this time - hell
> >>> you don't even need a vague plan. If you're even vaguely interested
> >>> but a little unsure please don't hesitate to talk to me about it. I'll
> >>> set you straight :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    Richard
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> melbourne-pug mailing list
> >> melbourne-pug at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>



-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Leeuwenburg
http://myownhat.blogspot.com/
"Don't believe everything you think"
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