From richardjones at optushome.com.au  Fri Jul  2 02:29:34 2010
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 10:29:34 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Fwd: [Python-au] [Fwd: [nzpug] Kiwi PyCon 2010 -
	Call for Participation]
In-Reply-To: <1277977729.18873.106.camel@monty>
References: <1277977729.18873.106.camel@monty>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin3KRYrUV2beOz3D9aWE0eKVinzDLf_rpbNmQVz@mail.gmail.com>

FYI :-)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tim Knapp <duffyd at kokorice.org>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 7:48 PM
Subject: [Python-au] [Fwd: [nzpug] Kiwi PyCon 2010 - Call for Participation]
To: python-au at starship.python.net


FYI
-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Guy K. Kloss <g.kloss at massey.ac.nz>
> Reply-to: nzpug at googlegroups.com
> To: nzpug at googlegroups.com <nzpug at googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [nzpug] Kiwi PyCon 2010 - Call for Participation
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:40:46 +1200
>
> Hi all,
>
> we've got another Kiwi PyCon lined up, and we're all expecting it to be as
> good as last year's event. This year it will be staged in lovely
> Paihia/Waitangi in the sunny Bay of Islands. It is on the weekend 20-21
> November.
>
> Find attached the "Call for Participation". We are encouraging everybody to
> come and to participate. Do not feel intimidated, this is a community
> conference, and we are hosting talks and sessions for all knowledge levels. Be
> it a tiny demo or show and tell (by doing a 5 minute Lightning Talk), or up to
> running an hour long tutorial. Or are you interested in the dynamic evolution
> of a session? Then the un-conference like Open Spaces will give you just the
> platorm for interaction ...
>
> Also ... make sure to spread the word. Tell everybody else about it. Forward
> this mail, blog about it, post it on Twitter/Identi.ca, etc. This CfP will
> soon also be posted on the Kiwi PyCon web site:
>
> http://nz.pycon.org
>
> So you can just post a link. We're just making it easier and easier for you
> ...
>
> Code and enjoy,
>
> The Kiwi PyCon Committee
>




_______________________________________________
python-au maillist ?- ?python-au at starship.python.net
http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-au

From miked at dewhirst.com.au  Fri Jul  2 07:21:38 2010
From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst)
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:21:38 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Windows thoughts
Message-ID: <4C2D7762.7060908@dewhirst.com.au>

Just in case anyone is contemplating a Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
laptop with an intel i7 CPU with 8Gb of RAM, here are my thoughts FWIW.

1. Trying to set up Win7 with Python is problematic if you need Python 
packages not yet compiled for 64-bit Windows

2. Trying to set up 32-bit Python with all your familiar packages is 
also problematic because some of them might rely on 32-bit Microsoft 
Visual Studio C++ libraries. I couldn't get Win7 to even download VC++ 
without digging IE out of the recycle bin - then it would only download 
and install the 64-bit version.

3. The solution seems to be Oracle VirtualBox and to install a 32-bit 
WinXP Pro so I can recreate a familiar environment. That is under way as 
I write this. I think I'll document what happens in case I have to do it 
again!

4. VirtualBox also let me install a 64-bit Linux server and both 64-bit 
and 32-bit Linux test environments to exploit more of those i7 cores and 
that very generous 8Gb of RAM. Greed is good!

5. I'll take the 64-bit Python road a little more slowly as time permits 
and demand requires.

6. Being familiar with WinXP I think Windows Explorer in Win7 sucks.

7. UAC - what were they thinking? I admit it is necessary and also that 
the Unix/Linux security model takes getting used to in the beginning. 
But it is worthwhile putting the effort in for Linux because it is 
stable. It's a good return over a long term investment. I don't trust MS 
to get UAC right for quite some time so why should I invest my meagre 
brainspace in their ever-changing ideas? BTW I skipped Vista entirely 
and managed to persuade my clients likewise. Unfortunately some are 
looking at Windows 7 and as I discovered you cannot buy a Windows laptop 
without it!

8. It is no use getting upset and frustrated. I'm trying to relax. As 
someone else said, there are few certainties in life but you can count 
on death, taxes and Microsoft.

Mike


From samuel.lai at gmail.com  Fri Jul  2 08:18:21 2010
From: samuel.lai at gmail.com (Sam Lai)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:18:21 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Windows thoughts
In-Reply-To: <4C2D7762.7060908@dewhirst.com.au>
References: <4C2D7762.7060908@dewhirst.com.au>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimq5QfY5UlojP4QSfILiXSeU_DTA0r-MQXXMYnz@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 July 2010 15:21, Mike Dewhirst <miked at dewhirst.com.au> wrote:
> 3. The solution seems to be Oracle VirtualBox and to install a 32-bit WinXP
> Pro so I can recreate a familiar environment. That is under way as I write
> this. I think I'll document what happens in case I have to do it again!

You have an XP license then. Why not just wipe Windows 7 and install XP?

> 7. UAC - what were they thinking? I admit it is necessary and also that the
> Unix/Linux security model takes getting used to in the beginning. But it is
> worthwhile putting the effort in for Linux because it is stable. It's a good
> return over a long term investment. I don't trust MS to get UAC right for
> quite some time so why should I invest my meagre brainspace in their
> ever-changing ideas?

Not really. UAC is largely only enforcing what Microsoft have been
recommending as best practice since 2000/XP launched.

Running as the admin user was never recommended practice; neither was
applications writing into locations other than the user profile
directory. These are two most common reasons elevation is required.
Next would probably be making OS-level queries/changes, but the
additional pain here is just including a manifest so Windows requests
elevation from the user before launching your app.

That said, you have said it yourself - UAC is a good thing in the long
run. They have to start somewhere. Given that the changes to UAC
between Vista and 7 were minimal (main change was the reduction of
prompts for common user tasks, primarily when using Windows Explorer),
the changes in Windows 8 are likely to be additive, rather than
code-breaking.

> Unfortunately some are looking at Windows 7 and as I discovered you cannot buy a Windows laptop without it!

Yeh, that's pretty disappointing. Although understandably, once you
have that advantage with PC manufacturers, obviously throwing it away
would be an incredibly poor business decision. Are Dell still
continuing their Linux preload experiment?

Has anyone successfully gotten their Windows licence fee refunded in
Australia? It has taken over 4 weeks and my DOA laptop refund still
hasn't been completed from manufacturer X; congrats to those who
manage to wrestle a refund for Windows out of any manufacturer.

From miked at dewhirst.com.au  Fri Jul  2 08:49:12 2010
From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst)
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:49:12 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Windows thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimq5QfY5UlojP4QSfILiXSeU_DTA0r-MQXXMYnz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C2D7762.7060908@dewhirst.com.au>
	<AANLkTimq5QfY5UlojP4QSfILiXSeU_DTA0r-MQXXMYnz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C2D8BE8.5090208@dewhirst.com.au>

On 2/07/2010 4:18pm, Sam Lai wrote:
>
> You have an XP license then. Why not just wipe Windows 7 and install
> XP?

As I said earlier, death, taxes and ... I can't escape it if I want to 
help my clients (ie stay in business!).

So I think keeping a WinXP VM and a couple of linux VMs lets me target 
all platforms I'm needing to. It will be a while before I'm up to speed 
with this blasted Win 7 though.

>
>> 7. UAC - what were they thinking? I admit it is necessary and also
>> that the Unix/Linux security model takes getting used to in the
>> beginning. But it is worthwhile putting the effort in for Linux
>> because it is stable. It's a good return over a long term
>> investment. I don't trust MS to get UAC right for quite some time
>> so why should I invest my meagre brainspace in their ever-changing
>> ideas?
>
> Not really. UAC is largely only enforcing what Microsoft have been
> recommending as best practice since 2000/XP launched.
>
> Running as the admin user was never recommended practice; neither
> was applications writing into locations other than the user profile
> directory. These are two most common reasons elevation is required.
> Next would probably be making OS-level queries/changes, but the
> additional pain here is just including a manifest so Windows
> requests elevation from the user before launching your app.
>

OK - I don't develop as root on linux and there isn't any problem there.

I guess I'll have to come to terms with group policies and tweak them so 
I can write and test code and install stuff without needing to reach for 
a stiff whisky. Then, just like Linux, I'll create unprivileged users to 
test it. I wonder if there is a "best practice" setup for this sort of 
thing? Might have to go googling.

It would be nice if there was a sudo in Win7 because this laptop has a 
fingerprint reader which saves a lot of typing :)

Mike

--

> That said, you have said it yourself - UAC is a good thing in the
> long run. They have to start somewhere. Given that the changes to
> UAC between Vista and 7 were minimal (main change was the reduction
> of prompts for common user tasks, primarily when using Windows
> Explorer), the changes in Windows 8 are likely to be additive, rather
> than code-breaking.
>
>> Unfortunately some are looking at Windows 7 and as I discovered you
>> cannot buy a Windows laptop without it!
>
> Yeh, that's pretty disappointing. Although understandably, once you
> have that advantage with PC manufacturers, obviously throwing it
> away would be an incredibly poor business decision. Are Dell still
> continuing their Linux preload experiment?
>
> Has anyone successfully gotten their Windows licence fee refunded in
> Australia? It has taken over 4 weeks and my DOA laptop refund still
> hasn't been completed from manufacturer X; congrats to those who
> manage to wrestle a refund for Windows out of any manufacturer.
> _______________________________________________ melbourne-pug mailing
> list melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>


From tiskanto at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 16:00:48 2010
From: tiskanto at gmail.com (Teguh Iskanto)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 00:00:48 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Windows thoughts
In-Reply-To: <4C2D8BE8.5090208@dewhirst.com.au>
References: <4C2D7762.7060908@dewhirst.com.au>
	<AANLkTimq5QfY5UlojP4QSfILiXSeU_DTA0r-MQXXMYnz@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4C2D8BE8.5090208@dewhirst.com.au>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin_jKsdTccSGcBB9myy5X7J1xCZtbu5b0VV0gTO@mail.gmail.com>

CPU Cycle is expensive, why not try cygwin ?
http://www.cygwin.com/
and you get a whole bunch of other GNU stuffs too

rgds
TI

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Mike Dewhirst <miked at dewhirst.com.au> wrote:

> On 2/07/2010 4:18pm, Sam Lai wrote:
>
>>
>> You have an XP license then. Why not just wipe Windows 7 and install
>> XP?
>>
>
> As I said earlier, death, taxes and ... I can't escape it if I want to help
> my clients (ie stay in business!).
>
> So I think keeping a WinXP VM and a couple of linux VMs lets me target all
> platforms I'm needing to. It will be a while before I'm up to speed with
> this blasted Win 7 though.
>
>
>
>>  7. UAC - what were they thinking? I admit it is necessary and also
>>> that the Unix/Linux security model takes getting used to in the
>>> beginning. But it is worthwhile putting the effort in for Linux
>>> because it is stable. It's a good return over a long term
>>> investment. I don't trust MS to get UAC right for quite some time
>>> so why should I invest my meagre brainspace in their ever-changing
>>> ideas?
>>>
>>
>> Not really. UAC is largely only enforcing what Microsoft have been
>> recommending as best practice since 2000/XP launched.
>>
>> Running as the admin user was never recommended practice; neither
>> was applications writing into locations other than the user profile
>> directory. These are two most common reasons elevation is required.
>> Next would probably be making OS-level queries/changes, but the
>> additional pain here is just including a manifest so Windows
>> requests elevation from the user before launching your app.
>>
>>
> OK - I don't develop as root on linux and there isn't any problem there.
>
> I guess I'll have to come to terms with group policies and tweak them so I
> can write and test code and install stuff without needing to reach for a
> stiff whisky. Then, just like Linux, I'll create unprivileged users to test
> it. I wonder if there is a "best practice" setup for this sort of thing?
> Might have to go googling.
>
> It would be nice if there was a sudo in Win7 because this laptop has a
> fingerprint reader which saves a lot of typing :)
>
> Mike
>
> --
>
>
>  That said, you have said it yourself - UAC is a good thing in the
>> long run. They have to start somewhere. Given that the changes to
>> UAC between Vista and 7 were minimal (main change was the reduction
>> of prompts for common user tasks, primarily when using Windows
>> Explorer), the changes in Windows 8 are likely to be additive, rather
>> than code-breaking.
>>
>>  Unfortunately some are looking at Windows 7 and as I discovered you
>>> cannot buy a Windows laptop without it!
>>>
>>
>> Yeh, that's pretty disappointing. Although understandably, once you
>> have that advantage with PC manufacturers, obviously throwing it
>> away would be an incredibly poor business decision. Are Dell still
>> continuing their Linux preload experiment?
>>
>> Has anyone successfully gotten their Windows licence fee refunded in
>> Australia? It has taken over 4 weeks and my DOA laptop refund still
>> hasn't been completed from manufacturer X; congrats to those who
>> manage to wrestle a refund for Windows out of any manufacturer.
>> _______________________________________________ melbourne-pug mailing
>> list melbourne-pug at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20100705/e74f6cce/attachment.html>

From ben at stumbles.id.au  Wed Jul 21 03:35:17 2010
From: ben at stumbles.id.au (Ben Sturmfels)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:35:17 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Letter to government on abolishing software patents
Message-ID: <1279676117.2801.30.camel@Rara.home>

Hi Folks,
Myself a few others have been working on an a letter to
Senator Kim Carr on abolishing software patents. I think this is an
important issue particularly for anyone involved in the software
industry. 

Was hoping to have this ready for PyCon, but didn't quite make it.

Please sign the letter:
http://apps.softwarefreedom.com.au/patents/

Regards,
Ben
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20100721/300d124e/attachment.pgp>

From n6151h at gmail.com  Wed Jul 21 04:26:46 2010
From: n6151h at gmail.com (N6151H)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:26:46 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Letter to government on abolishing software
	patents
In-Reply-To: <1279676117.2801.30.camel@Rara.home>
References: <1279676117.2801.30.camel@Rara.home>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinOKmjFJ3HjuWA1U5H51xdTX3fvqd37AaD9Pb1R@mail.gmail.com>

Good letter, Ben.  May I suggest listing examples for section 3 as you did
for section 1, only in this case list at least a dozen or more applications
that either no longer exist or have transmogrified into other forms:
Wordstar, VisiCalc, Trumpet (later Winsock), Xmodem (protocol, also ymodem,
zmodem), not to mention the various "generations" of languages that would
did not evolve (and probably could not have evolved) in a closed,
monopolistic patent environment, including python, perl, and ruby.   Even
javascript, which started out as Netscape's "LiveScript" language, didn't
stand a chance of becoming a (The?) web standard for client-side active
content until it was opened up (even if only a little) for the Internet
community to fix and enhance it.

Also ...

5.  Software patents promote technological in-breeding, which, ultimately,
weakens the ability to produce robust, well-running code.  It thwarts
natural (read: MARKET) selection by promoting technologies that enjoy the
protection afforded by the wealth of the patent owner, rather than the
inherent strength of the technology itself.

Cheers,
Nick

In short, p

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Ben Sturmfels <ben at stumbles.id.au> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> Myself a few others have been working on an a letter to
> Senator Kim Carr on abolishing software patents. I think this is an
> important issue particularly for anyone involved in the software
> industry.
>
> Was hoping to have this ready for PyCon, but didn't quite make it.
>
> Please sign the letter:
> http://apps.softwarefreedom.com.au/patents/
>
> Regards,
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20100721/b9d50975/attachment.html>

From tleeuwenburg at gmail.com  Wed Jul 21 04:30:34 2010
From: tleeuwenburg at gmail.com (Tennessee Leeuwenburg)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:30:34 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Letter to government on abolishing software
	patents
In-Reply-To: <1279676117.2801.30.camel@Rara.home>
References: <1279676117.2801.30.camel@Rara.home>
Message-ID: <AANLkTini6B87jUsa6fMsTuJx2xhUGM1Gyrs7Xq-79I9M@mail.gmail.com>

Good one.

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Ben Sturmfels <ben at stumbles.id.au> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> Myself a few others have been working on an a letter to
> Senator Kim Carr on abolishing software patents. I think this is an
> important issue particularly for anyone involved in the software
> industry.
>
> Was hoping to have this ready for PyCon, but didn't quite make it.
>
> Please sign the letter:
> http://apps.softwarefreedom.com.au/patents/
>
> Regards,
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> melbourne-pug mailing list
> melbourne-pug at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug
>
>


-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Leeuwenburg
http://myownhat.blogspot.com/
"Don't believe everything you think"
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20100721/9c6f7856/attachment.html>

From richardjones at optushome.com.au  Thu Jul 29 05:54:59 2010
From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:54:59 +1000
Subject: [melbourne-pug] Fwd: [OSDC:ClubAnnounce] OSDC 2010 Call for
	Presentations!
In-Reply-To: <20100727055940.F2447A9DC8@teddybear.perltraining.com.au>
References: <20100727055940.F2447A9DC8@teddybear.perltraining.com.au>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin4Z1uvURHNRcmB7heAzBxa3ngpW+TXZjVqqJGc@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:  <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
Date: Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:59 PM
Subject: [OSDC:ClubAnnounce] OSDC 2010 Call for Presentations!
To: clubannounce at osdc.com.au


In 2010, the Open Source Developers' Conference (OSDC) is back in
Melbourne! ?Running Wednesday 24th - Friday 26th November 2010, OSDC is a
great way to meet your peers, share your knowledge, and improve your
skills.

Be part of our 7th year of this fantastic conference, run by open source
developers for open source developers. ?Submit a proposal on open source
languages, technologies, tools and projects.
http://2010.osdc.com.au/call-for-proposals

Key dates:

Call for Proposals Closes ? ? ? 23 August 2010
Proposal Acceptance ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 September 2010
OSDC 2010 Conference ? ? ? ? ? ?24th to 26th November 2010

Please feel free to pass this on to any other people or groups
you think might be interested in submitting a paper!

Hope to see you there!

? ? ? ?OSDC 2010 committee
--
You have received this email because you're signed up to the Open
Source Developers' Club announce list.

To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to clubannounce-leave at osdc.com.au.

If you wish to temporarily disable email delivery without
unsubscribing, or change any other membership information, head to the
options page at
https://osdc.securityprotected.net/lists/options/clubannounce.osdc.com.au