From abriggs at westnet.com.au Wed Nov 16 11:45:06 2005 From: abriggs at westnet.com.au (Anthony Briggs) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:45:06 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow Message-ID: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> Hi Guys, The meeting's snuck up on me again! I was sick all last week, and we're currently under deadline pressure, but still - pretty slack :\ Since last month was a bit of a fizzle, I was planning to run the discussion that I meant to run last time - coding style, PEP 8, and so on. I think it'll be a lot more interesting to talk about face to face rather than over the mailing list, and we'll be better able to steer it away from becoming flamebait :) Can I also have a show of hands as to who will be coming? Low numbers put a few people off last time, I think, despite it being a hot topic. I think we should also talk about what's happening with the meetings - attendance has been really tailing off in the last few months, and I'd be interested to get people's opinions on how we can make our sessions more interesting and/or get more involvement. One of the ideas that I had was to try and distribute the workload a little more evenly, so that rather than have one big presentation (and also one point of failure), we either have multiple smaller ones, or a more distributed style, like a discussion. Thoughts/opinions welcome. Anthony -- ------------------------------------------------------ HyPerACtIVe?! HEY, Who ArE yoU cAllInG HYPERaCTive?! abriggs at westnet.com.au ------------------------------------------------------ From mauriceling at acm.org Wed Nov 16 12:01:05 2005 From: mauriceling at acm.org (Maurice Ling) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:01:05 +0800 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> References: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <437B1171.9090800@acm.org> Hi guys, Sorry... I'm away until May next year, so will have to miss the meetings for a few months. Cheers Maurice Anthony Briggs wrote: >Hi Guys, > >The meeting's snuck up on me again! I was sick all last week, and we're >currently under deadline pressure, but still - pretty slack :\ > >Since last month was a bit of a fizzle, I was planning to run the >discussion that I meant to run last time - coding style, PEP 8, and so >on. I think it'll be a lot more interesting to talk about face to face >rather than over the mailing list, and we'll be better able to steer it >away from becoming flamebait :) > >Can I also have a show of hands as to who will be coming? Low numbers >put a few people off last time, I think, despite it being a hot topic. > > >I think we should also talk about what's happening with the meetings - >attendance has been really tailing off in the last few months, and I'd >be interested to get people's opinions on how we can make our sessions >more interesting and/or get more involvement. > >One of the ideas that I had was to try and distribute the workload a >little more evenly, so that rather than have one big presentation (and >also one point of failure), we either have multiple smaller ones, or a >more distributed style, like a discussion. > >Thoughts/opinions welcome. > >Anthony > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mauriceling.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 324 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20051116/53c60f8e/mauriceling.vcf From qubero at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 12:01:32 2005 From: qubero at gmail.com (Peter Galaxy) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:01:32 +0100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> References: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: Sorry, can't make it, I'm in Budapest. But I'll be at at OSDC, and probably the next pug meet. Peter Galaxy. From djc at object-craft.com.au Wed Nov 16 12:47:16 2005 From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:47:16 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> References: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <437B1C44.2000201@object-craft.com.au> Anthony Briggs wrote: > Can I also have a show of hands as to who will be coming? Low numbers > put a few people off last time, I think, despite it being a hot topic. Can't make it 'cos I am currently working in a South African timezone... - Dave -- http://www.object-craft.com.au From miked at dewhirst.com.au Wed Nov 16 13:46:19 2005 From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:46:19 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <437B1C44.2000201@object-craft.com.au> References: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> <437B1C44.2000201@object-craft.com.au> Message-ID: <437B2A1B.3040800@dewhirst.com.au> Dave Cole wrote: > Anthony Briggs wrote: > >>Can I also have a show of hands as to who will be coming? Low numbers >>put a few people off last time, I think, despite it being a hot topic. I came last time, so I'm a low number. Love to come but I read pep8 and thought it made sense in the end. Time is precious at this end of the year and Mt Dandenong is just a tad too far away from Fitzroy. Cafe 54(58?) is definitely worth the trip. Look, I think Python is cool and I'm keen to learn. I'm a Python beginner so get technical and I'm yours :) Cheers mike From cropleyb at yahoo.com.au Wed Nov 16 22:09:01 2005 From: cropleyb at yahoo.com.au (Bruce Cropley) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:09:01 +1100 (EST) Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow Message-ID: <20051116210901.36141.qmail@web60223.mail.yahoo.com> I was one of the other Low Numbers last month. I had a good time despite the small turnout. If it's running tonight, I'll probably be there. WRT getting a bigger turnout, I suggest we advertise at OSDC, and ask to get a link from the OSDC club page. BTW, I have a couple of presentations that I gave to the Patterns group recently: - Introduction to Python - Implementation Patterns in Python Perhaps we can attempt to convert some of the OSDC attendees, then follow up with these over the next couple of months? Bruce ----------8<--------------- Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:45:06 +1100 From: Anthony Briggs Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow To: Melbourne Python Users Group Message-ID: <437B0DB2.2020904 at westnet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Guys, The meeting's snuck up on me again! I was sick all last week, and we're currently under deadline pressure, but still - pretty slack :\ Since last month was a bit of a fizzle, I was planning to run the discussion that I meant to run last time - coding style, PEP 8, and so on. I think it'll be a lot more interesting to talk about face to face rather than over the mailing list, and we'll be better able to steer it away from becoming flamebait :) Can I also have a show of hands as to who will be coming? Low numbers put a few people off last time, I think, despite it being a hot topic. I think we should also talk about what's happening with the meetings - attendance has been really tailing off in the last few months, and I'd be interested to get people's opinions on how we can make our sessions more interesting and/or get more involvement. One of the ideas that I had was to try and distribute the workload a little more evenly, so that rather than have one big presentation (and also one point of failure), we either have multiple smaller ones, or a more distributed style, like a discussion. Thoughts/opinions welcome. Anthony ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com From richardjones at optushome.com.au Wed Nov 16 22:16:04 2005 From: richardjones at optushome.com.au (Richard Jones) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:16:04 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> References: <437B0DB2.2020904@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <200511170816.04607.richardjones@optushome.com.au> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:45 pm, Anthony Briggs wrote: > Can I also have a show of hands as to who will be coming? Low numbers > put a few people off last time, I think, despite it being a hot topic. I'm not going to be able to make it as I'm expecting to be typesetting papers for OSDC. Everyone come to OSDC. plug plug plug, you know :) > I think we should also talk about what's happening with the meetings - > attendance has been really tailing off in the last few months, and I'd > be interested to get people's opinions on how we can make our sessions > more interesting and/or get more involvement. I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions. I will note that this is the usual way with these sorts of meetings. I think we need to try to contact more Python developers in Melbourne. More later. Richard -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/melbourne-pug/attachments/20051117/3c5f85a9/attachment.pgp From tennessee at tennessee.id.au Thu Nov 17 04:36:23 2005 From: tennessee at tennessee.id.au (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:36:23 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <20051116210901.36141.qmail@web60223.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051116210901.36141.qmail@web60223.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <437BFAB7.7090503@tennessee.id.au> I can't make it tonight due to a conflicting appointment, but still intend to come when I can. I would expect that would be about half the time. If you want something interesting that will attract me to future events, I've got a problem I can't solve. I want to do lots of stuff with sound, right from first principles, but can't work out the right libraries to let me do it. Here's the background: I have been having some trouble sleeping lately. I tried downloading some software which generates what I suppose is music, but is basically a collection of repeating wave patterns overlaid with one another. The principle is that one can encourage the brain to enter certain states. Supposedly, brains when measured by EEG's produce certain typical waveforms when in relaxed states, sleep states etc. I didn't have time to read whether or not this was just complete crap or not. Regardless, I quite liked the inbuilt semi-natural sound patterns that the software came with. I'm listening right now to a simulation of a river / water noises which is overlaid by a kind of slow repeating pulse. The pulse is a bit annoying, but the natural sound is quite pleasant. Anyway, I thought that one might be able to expand the idea to create a naturalistic environment noise, whose elements are in fact tracking various metrics. You might indicate changes in a stock price with the sounds of a bird call, signal each hour with a falling tree, overlay a kind of slow-repeat semi-random layer of pleasant sounds such as moving water, wind in the trees, rain, etc etc. I wondered what kind of software tools exist which would let me write such a thing. I have no idea how to create and manipulate sounds in this way. I imagine I would need a kind of "generator" for each sound type, which I could introduce into the symphony and manipulate at will. I tried to get something up and running, but after a day and a half I'm feeling a bit dispirited. I have found countless tools to let me trigger a pre-existing sound file, but almost nothing relevant to creating sounds from scratch. The candidates I've found are: Hook into windows sound using ActiveState Python and DirectSound Use PyMedia Use Boodler I would like something cross-platform, but failing that I would prefer Windows (that's what my laptop is). I think it's an interesting project, the product of which would be something fun to use and experience. I love the idea of tracking real-world variables with ambient sounds. I got to the point where I could generate a samples array using Numeric, but I couldn't work out how to turn that into sound output. Anyway, feel free to ping me for more info / comments. Just my 2c on something I think would be neat. Cheers, -T From cropleyb at yahoo.com.au Thu Nov 17 06:13:53 2005 From: cropleyb at yahoo.com.au (Bruce Cropley) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:13:53 +1100 (EST) Subject: [melbourne-pug] Tonight Message-ID: <20051117051353.6648.qmail@web60215.mail.yahoo.com> Looks like there's not going to be much of a turnout tonight. I think I'll wait for the next meeting... Have fun, Bruce ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com From abriggs at westnet.com.au Thu Nov 17 06:21:52 2005 From: abriggs at westnet.com.au (Anthony Briggs) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:21:52 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Meeting Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <437BFAB7.7090503@tennessee.id.au> References: <20051116210901.36141.qmail@web60223.mail.yahoo.com> <437BFAB7.7090503@tennessee.id.au> Message-ID: <437C1370.2000207@westnet.com.au> Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote: > If you want something interesting that will attract me to future events, > I've got a problem I can't solve. I want to do lots of stuff with sound, > right from first principles, but can't work out the right libraries to > let me do it. > ... I thought that one might be able to expand the idea to create a > naturalistic environment noise, whose elements are in fact tracking > various metrics. You might indicate changes in a stock price with the > sounds of a bird call, signal each hour with a falling tree, overlay a > kind of slow-repeat semi-random layer of pleasant sounds such as moving > water, wind in the trees, rain, etc etc. Sounds here like you want to reimplement Boodler/PyMedia/etc. Boodler's the one that does tracking of real time events, anyway. It's a thought that I've had myself, since I seem to recall that Boodler only plays wacky Sun-formatted mu-law files. No idea about PyMedia, it seems like more of a media player idea, rather than triggering stuff. > I tried to get something up and running, but after a day and a half I'm > feeling a bit dispirited. I have found countless tools to let me trigger > a pre-existing sound file, but almost nothing relevant to creating > sounds from scratch. But it sounds here like you want Audacity, or a similar sound editor. Right tool for the job, and all that. I doubt that there's any easy way to make the sound of a tree falling by tweaking waveforms. If you really want to generate sound samples programmatically, I did a quick Google search: which turns up . That probably has something that does what you want :) > I got to the point where I could generate a samples array using Numeric, > but I couldn't work out how to turn that into sound output. looks interesting - it seems to go the other way, ie. from a sound file, generate a waveform, but you might be able to turn it on it's head... Does that help? Am I close? Anthony -- ------------------------------------------------------ HyPerACtIVe?! HEY, Who ArE yoU cAllInG HYPERaCTive?! abriggs at westnet.com.au ------------------------------------------------------ From abriggs at westnet.com.au Thu Nov 17 06:24:05 2005 From: abriggs at westnet.com.au (Anthony Briggs) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:24:05 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Tonight In-Reply-To: <20051117051353.6648.qmail@web60215.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051117051353.6648.qmail@web60215.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <437C13F5.4090907@westnet.com.au> Bruce Cropley wrote: > Looks like there's not going to be much of a turnout > tonight. > I think I'll wait for the next meeting... Yep, fair enough. Tonight's meeting is officially cancelled, then. I'm still interested in working out how to attract more people, though. Thanks, Anthony -- ------------------------------------------------------ HyPerACtIVe?! HEY, Who ArE yoU cAllInG HYPERaCTive?! abriggs at westnet.com.au ------------------------------------------------------ From petermct at dodo.com.au Thu Nov 17 12:31:53 2005 From: petermct at dodo.com.au (Peter McTaggart) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:31:53 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Tonight In-Reply-To: <437C13F5.4090907@westnet.com.au> References: <20051117051353.6648.qmail@web60215.mail.yahoo.com> <437C13F5.4090907@westnet.com.au> Message-ID: <437C6A29.9090503@dodo.com.au> Anthony Briggs wrote: >Bruce Cropley wrote: > > >>Looks like there's not going to be much of a turnout >>tonight. >>I think I'll wait for the next meeting... >> >> > >Yep, fair enough. Tonight's meeting is officially cancelled, then. > >I'm still interested in working out how to attract more people, though. > >Thanks, > >Anthony > > > I'm new here so perhaps you can tell me where these meetings are held? That would at least give me a small chance of getting to one. cheers, Peter From gus at commonground.com.au Thu Nov 17 14:34:43 2005 From: gus at commonground.com.au (Gus Gollings) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:34:43 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] Tonight In-Reply-To: <437C6A29.9090503@dodo.com.au> References: <20051117051353.6648.qmail@web60215.mail.yahoo.com> <437C13F5.4090907@westnet.com.au> <437C6A29.9090503@dodo.com.au> Message-ID: <66B99A2D-04CA-4E9D-BC26-49D827100504@commonground.com.au> On 17/11/2005, at 10:31 PM, Peter McTaggart wrote: > I'm new here so perhaps you can tell me where these meetings are held? > That would at least give me a small chance of getting to one. There are some details on the wiki: http://wiki.python.org/moin/MelbournePUG/ Regards, Gus Gollings From miked at dewhirst.com.au Mon Nov 21 23:24:25 2005 From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:24:25 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] CGI question Message-ID: <43824919.3070702@dewhirst.com.au> I'm trying to pick up REMOTE_USER from os.environ['REMOTE_USER'] or cgi.print_environ() and I get a key error in the first case and nothing in the second. I'm using basic auth in Apache 2 so I know REMOTE_USER must be getting set. I've followed a couple of python recipes but can't get further. Is there a trick to it? Should I be trying session cookies instead? Thanks Mike From tennessee at tennessee.id.au Tue Nov 22 02:14:44 2005 From: tennessee at tennessee.id.au (Tennessee Leeuwenburg) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:14:44 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] CGI question In-Reply-To: <43824919.3070702@dewhirst.com.au> References: <43824919.3070702@dewhirst.com.au> Message-ID: <43827104.6040805@tennessee.id.au> Obviously you've thought about it, but I would be inclined to think it wasn't really being set. Perhaps the particular directory you have isn't triggering a log-on? You could try double-checking with php, perl or another language to double check. Using a cookie is certainly another way around session tracking. If you use a static html file, are you prompted to log-in before viewing the page? i.e. are you sure that the particular file/directory you are accessing requires a log-on? Cheers, -T Mike Dewhirst wrote: >I'm trying to pick up REMOTE_USER from os.environ['REMOTE_USER'] or >cgi.print_environ() and I get a key error in the first case and nothing >in the second. > >I'm using basic auth in Apache 2 so I know REMOTE_USER must be getting set. > >I've followed a couple of python recipes but can't get further. > >Is there a trick to it? > >Should I be trying session cookies instead? > >Thanks > >Mike >_______________________________________________ >melbourne-pug mailing list >melbourne-pug at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/melbourne-pug > > From miked at dewhirst.com.au Tue Nov 22 02:40:29 2005 From: miked at dewhirst.com.au (Mike Dewhirst) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:40:29 +1100 Subject: [melbourne-pug] CGI question In-Reply-To: <43827104.6040805@tennessee.id.au> References: <43824919.3070702@dewhirst.com.au> <43827104.6040805@tennessee.id.au> Message-ID: <4382770D.7020801@dewhirst.com.au> Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote: > Obviously you've thought about it, but I would be inclined to think it > wasn't really being set. Perhaps the particular directory you have isn't > triggering a log-on? > > You could try double-checking with php, perl or another language to > double check. > > Using a cookie is certainly another way around session tracking. > > If you use a static html file, are you prompted to log-in before viewing > the page? i.e. are you sure that the particular file/directory you are > accessing requires a log-on? Tennessee Thanks for responding. You picked it. The static html file in htdocs required valid-user and on submit is calling cgi-bin/collectinfo.py. As soon as I required valid-user in the cgi-bin directory (same realm) as well, it started working. Thanks heaps :) Mike 1. Static html file in htdocs basic auth directory triggers login prompt 2. Page displays with form fields and on submit calls cgi-bin/collectinfo.py which fails to find REMOTE_USER