From john at johnmarsden.name  Wed Apr  1 11:00:13 2020
From: john at johnmarsden.name (John Marsden)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:00:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering
Message-ID: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>

Hi All

I manage a Mailman 2 list which is used to discuss family history issues.

Some of the members wish to raise topics outside the regular brief and 
this is being tolerated during the coronavirus outbreak when many of our 
members, who are often elderly, wish to post messages which are more 
concerned with living in isolation than with family history. However, 
some members do not wish to see these or participate in the off-topic 
threads arising.

I decided to use 'Topics' to identify these messages and to ask members 
to identify off-topic messages by prefixing the subject with 'NON-GEN'.

I did not want to tag the on-topic messages as it would mean asking the 
majority of the list to adjust to the needs of the minority, so I added 
a topic to the list using the Regexp ^((?!NON-GEN).)*$ to identify the 
on-topic messages.

This enables any member who does NOT want messages with a subject tagged 
with 'NON-GEN'to subscribe to the Topic and so receive only messages in 
which this tag does NOT appear.

This works perfectly for those members who subscribe to receive 
individual messages, but those who subscribe to Digests still receive 
ALL messages in their digests, despite having selected the topic.

As far as I can see, this is a 'feature' of Mailman 2 and there appears 
to be no obvious way to supply digests of messages which are restricted 
to a selected topic.

Am I correct in this assumption? Is there a way to limit the digests to 
messages relating only to topics selected by the list member?

Any suggestions will be welcomed.

John

-- 
John Marsden
Webmaster:
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk www.cumbriabmd.org.uk
www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk www.mlfhs.org.uk


From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Apr  2 14:05:31 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:05:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering
In-Reply-To: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
References: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
Message-ID: <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>

On 4/1/20 8:00 AM, John Marsden wrote:
> 
> This works perfectly for those members who subscribe to receive
> individual messages, but those who subscribe to Digests still receive
> ALL messages in their digests, despite having selected the topic.
> 
> As far as I can see, this is a 'feature' of Mailman 2 and there appears
> to be no obvious way to supply digests of messages which are restricted
> to a selected topic.
> 
> Am I correct in this assumption? Is there a way to limit the digests to
> messages relating only to topics selected by the list member?


You are correct. There is no mechanism within Mailman to create
individualized digests. Mailman creates a plain digest and a MIME format
digest, but both formats contain all messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From john at johnmarsden.name  Fri Apr  3 05:24:19 2020
From: john at johnmarsden.name (John Marsden)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:24:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering
In-Reply-To: <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>
References: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
 <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <004e4e1b-e0cf-bb85-1b9c-b3c05625e8d9@johnmarsden.name>

Hello Mark

Thanks for this confirmation. I suspected it would be the case, but it 
is good to have it confirmed. Maybe one for the developers to think about...

Do you, or does anyone else, know whether Mailman 3 behaves in the same way?

Regards

John

John Marsden
Webmaster:
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk www.cumbriabmd.org.uk
www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk www.mlfhs.org.uk

On 02/04/2020 19:05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 4/1/20 8:00 AM, John Marsden wrote:
>> This works perfectly for those members who subscribe to receive
>> individual messages, but those who subscribe to Digests still receive
>> ALL messages in their digests, despite having selected the topic.
>>
>> As far as I can see, this is a 'feature' of Mailman 2 and there appears
>> to be no obvious way to supply digests of messages which are restricted
>> to a selected topic.
>>
>> Am I correct in this assumption? Is there a way to limit the digests to
>> messages relating only to topics selected by the list member?
>
> You are correct. There is no mechanism within Mailman to create
> individualized digests. Mailman creates a plain digest and a MIME format
> digest, but both formats contain all messages.
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr  3 11:02:33 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 08:02:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering
In-Reply-To: <004e4e1b-e0cf-bb85-1b9c-b3c05625e8d9@johnmarsden.name>
References: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
 <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>
 <004e4e1b-e0cf-bb85-1b9c-b3c05625e8d9@johnmarsden.name>
Message-ID: <b115db0a-bfd5-574f-8893-aad43d1e4d5c@msapiro.net>

On 4/3/20 2:24 AM, John Marsden wrote:
> Hello Mark
> 
> Thanks for this confirmation. I suspected it would be the case, but it
> is good to have it confirmed. Maybe one for the developers to think
> about...
> 
> Do you, or does anyone else, know whether Mailman 3 behaves in the same
> way?


Yes, it's the same in MM 3. Also MM 3 does not implement Topics,
although we have been looking a dynamic sublists which is a way for
users to decide which threads to receive or not receive.

None of this will affect digests. There is currently no mechanism for
building individualized digests and it is unlikely there ever will be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From john at johnmarsden.name  Sun Apr  5 08:02:15 2020
From: john at johnmarsden.name (John Marsden)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 13:02:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering
In-Reply-To: <b115db0a-bfd5-574f-8893-aad43d1e4d5c@msapiro.net>
References: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
 <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>
 <004e4e1b-e0cf-bb85-1b9c-b3c05625e8d9@johnmarsden.name>
 <b115db0a-bfd5-574f-8893-aad43d1e4d5c@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <a97a4666-3a72-0bb7-f8ae-c799b0ef2927@johnmarsden.name>

Hello Mark

Thanks for this further clarification.

I can live with the anomaly (have to!) but it is good to know the position.

Regards

John

John Marsden
Webmaster:
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk www.cumbriabmd.org.uk
www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk www.mlfhs.org.uk

On 03/04/2020 16:02, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 4/3/20 2:24 AM, John Marsden wrote:
>> Hello Mark
>>
>> Thanks for this confirmation. I suspected it would be the case, but it
>> is good to have it confirmed. Maybe one for the developers to think
>> about...
>>
>> Do you, or does anyone else, know whether Mailman 3 behaves in the same
>> way?
>
> Yes, it's the same in MM 3. Also MM 3 does not implement Topics,
> although we have been looking a dynamic sublists which is a way for
> users to decide which threads to receive or not receive.
>
> None of this will affect digests. There is currently no mechanism for
> building individualized digests and it is unlikely there ever will be.
>

From obatchelor at luc.edu  Tue Apr  7 11:20:23 2020
From: obatchelor at luc.edu (Batchelor, Oliver)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 15:20:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering
In-Reply-To: <a97a4666-3a72-0bb7-f8ae-c799b0ef2927@johnmarsden.name>
References: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
 <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>
 <004e4e1b-e0cf-bb85-1b9c-b3c05625e8d9@johnmarsden.name>
 <b115db0a-bfd5-574f-8893-aad43d1e4d5c@msapiro.net>,
 <a97a4666-3a72-0bb7-f8ae-c799b0ef2927@johnmarsden.name>
Message-ID: <DM6PR05MB39626E2AC1D7C721C6198B3DDDC30@DM6PR05MB3962.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Hi All,

I am new to managing the listservs at my university and have some questions on which I cannot locate documentation. I am sure there is some detail I am overlooking, but thanks anyway.

Do list administrators get moderator messages too? The administrator of one of my department lists is an administrator, but keeps getting prompts to approve things. Any info on this?

Thanks!


Oliver Batchelor

Learning Design Engineer

Instructional Technology & Research Support

Loyola University Chicago

obatchelor at luc.edu<mailto:obatchelor at luc.edu>

________________________________
From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+obatchelor=luc.edu at python.org> on behalf of John Marsden <john at johnmarsden.name>
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2020 7:02 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Topic Filtering

Hello Mark

Thanks for this further clarification.

I can live with the anomaly (have to!) but it is good to know the position.

Regards

John

John Marsden
Webmaster:
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk<http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk> www.cumbriabmd.org.uk<http://www.cumbriabmd.org.uk>
www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk<http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk> www.mlfhs.org.uk<http://www.mlfhs.org.uk>

On 03/04/2020 16:02, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 4/3/20 2:24 AM, John Marsden wrote:
>> Hello Mark
>>
>> Thanks for this confirmation. I suspected it would be the case, but it
>> is good to have it confirmed. Maybe one for the developers to think
>> about...
>>
>> Do you, or does anyone else, know whether Mailman 3 behaves in the same
>> way?
>
> Yes, it's the same in MM 3. Also MM 3 does not implement Topics,
> although we have been looking a dynamic sublists which is a way for
> users to decide which threads to receive or not receive.
>
> None of this will affect digests. There is currently no mechanism for
> building individualized digests and it is unlikely there ever will be.
>
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/obatchelor%40luc.edu

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr  8 14:57:18 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:57:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who gets notices - was: Topic Filtering
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR05MB39626E2AC1D7C721C6198B3DDDC30@DM6PR05MB3962.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <5645b695-761f-b133-c51a-95ea75d06663@johnmarsden.name>
 <73ee1e1c-0690-e928-4f8f-ce3da255e550@msapiro.net>
 <004e4e1b-e0cf-bb85-1b9c-b3c05625e8d9@johnmarsden.name>
 <b115db0a-bfd5-574f-8893-aad43d1e4d5c@msapiro.net>
 <a97a4666-3a72-0bb7-f8ae-c799b0ef2927@johnmarsden.name>
 <DM6PR05MB39626E2AC1D7C721C6198B3DDDC30@DM6PR05MB3962.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6890b542-f635-6d61-850a-588707e72d25@msapiro.net>

On 4/7/20 8:20 AM, Batchelor, Oliver wrote:
> 
> Do list administrators get moderator messages too? The administrator of one of my department lists is an administrator, but keeps getting prompts to approve things. Any info on this?


Yes. owners get moderator messages too. See
<https://wiki.list.org/x/4030553> for more info,

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 13 14:22:30 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:22:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.30 released
Message-ID: <9d718663-d6a2-e560-d3d1-7fdd56ab8f60@msapiro.net>

I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.30

Python 2.6 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7, preferably 2.7.17 -
the final Python 2 release, is strongly recommended.

This is a routine bug fix release with a few new features. See the
attached README.txt for details.

Mailman 2.1.30 will be the last release of the Mailman 2.1 branch from
the GNU Mailman project. There has been some discussion as to what this
means. It means there will be no more releases from the GNU Mailman
project containing any new features. There may be future patch releases
to address the following:
 - i18n updates.
 - security issues.
 - bugs affecting operation for which no satisfactory workaround exists.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/

Mailman 2.1.30 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
2.1.30 (13-Apr-2020)

  New Features

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch, there is now a dmarc_moderation_addresses
      list setting that can be used to apply dmarc_moderation_action to mail
      From: addresses listed or matching listed regexps.  This can be used
      to modify mail to addresses that don't accept external mail From:
      themselves.

    - There is a new MAX_LISTNAME_LENGTH setting.  The fix for LP: #1780874
      obtains a list of the names of all the all the lists in the installation
      in order to determine the maximum length of a legitimate list name.  It
      does this on every web access and on sites with a very large number of
      lists, this can have performance implications.  See the description in
      Defaults.py for more information.

    - Thanks to Ralf Jung there is now the ability to add text based captchas
      (aka textchas) to the listinfo subscribe form.  See the documentation
      for the new CAPTCHA setting in Defaults.py for how to enable this.  Also
      note that if you have custom listinfo.html templates, you will have to
      add a <mm-captcha-ui> tag to those templates to make this work.  This
      feature can be used in combination with or instead of the Google
      reCAPTCHA feature added in 2.1.26.

    - Thanks to Ralf Hildebrandt the web admin Membership Management section
      now has a feature to sync the list's membership with a list of email
      addresses as with the bin/sync_members command.

    - There is a new drop_cc list attribute set from DEFAULT_DROP_CC.  This
      controls the dropping of addresses from the Cc: header in delivered
      messages by the duplicate avoidance process.  (LP: #1845751)

    - There is a new REFUSE_SECOND_PENDING mm_cfg.py setting that will cause
      a second request to subscribe to a list when there is already a pending
      confirmation for that user.  This can be set to Yes to prevent
      mailbombing of a third party by repeatedly posting the subscribe form.
      (LP: #1859104)

  i18n

    - The Japanese translation has been updated by Yasuhito FUTATSUKI.

    - The German translation has been updated by Ludwig Reiter.

    - The Spanish translation has been updated by Omar Walid Llorente.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson de Mello.

  Bug Fixes and other patches

    - Fixed the confirm CGI to catch a rare TypeError on simultaneous
      confirmations of the same token.  (LP: #1785854)

    - Scrubbed application/octet-stream MIME parts will now be given a
      .bin extension instead of .obj.

    - Added bounce recognition for a non-compliant opensmtpd DSN with
      Action: error.  (LP: #1805137)

    - Corrected and augmented some security log messages.  (LP: #1810098)

    - Implemented use of QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME for bin/qrunner --runner=All.
      (LP: #1818205)

    - Leading/trailing spaces in provided email addresses for login to private
      archives and the user options page are now ignored.  (LP: #1818872)

    - Fixed the spelling of the --no-restart option for mailmanctl.

    - Fixed an issue where certain combinations of charset and invalid
      characters in a list's description could produce a List-ID header
      without angle brackets.  (LP: #1831321)

    - With the Postfix MTA and virtual domains, mappings for the site list
      -bounces and -request addresses in each virtual domain are now added
      to data/virtual-mailman (-owner was done in 2.1.24).  (LP: #1831777)

    - The paths.py module now extends sys.path with the result of
      site.getsitepackages() if available.  (LP: #1838866)

    - A bug causing a UnicodeDecodeError in preparing to send the confirmation
      request message to a new subscriber has been fixed.  (LP: #1851442)

    - The SimpleMatch heuristic bounce recognizer has been improved to not
      return most invalid email addresses.  (LP: #1859011)

-------------- next part --------------
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From itservice at knut-krueger.de  Tue Apr 14 03:13:25 2020
From: itservice at knut-krueger.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Knut_Kr=c3=bcger?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:13:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some mailman interface links are http:// instead
 https://..
Message-ID: <15b77bfc-a1f7-07a7-22c1-5b370cf8c296@knut-krueger.de>

version 2.1.23 <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html> Debian 
Stretch

There are some pages of the administration interface which are using 
http:// instead of https://

f.e the admin interface of the Held Messages are not working:
http://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/Mylist

[Posting Held for Approval]

using Defer, Approve, Reject, Discard and [Submit All Data] is causing 
Firefox to show an warning (using unencrypted connection)
and it is impossible to delete the held messages.

All links at the https://mydomain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/Mylist? 
(Held Messages)page are linked without https://

The mails for the reminder that there are messages to administrate are 
sent without https:// the server changes to https:/ automatically

Regards Knut


From jorohr at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 09:11:33 2020
From: jorohr at gmail.com (Johannes Rohr)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:11:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Toggle plain text setting for new users
Message-ID: <b2f5e4c4-c790-4011-cfed-a062066a482f@gmail.com>

Dear all,

I would like to toggle a default setting for new users, name the
HTML/plain text switch. In our use case, having everything converted to
plain text by default is not very practical.

I am not sure how I achieve this, this question isn't mentioned in the
FAQ either. I am looking for a global switch to be put in mm_cfg.py or a
local config option for each of the lists. So far I haven't found either.

Would greatly appreciate any hint!!!

Johannes


From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de  Wed Apr 22 10:09:49 2020
From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (Mailman-admin)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:09:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Toggle plain text setting for new users
In-Reply-To: <b2f5e4c4-c790-4011-cfed-a062066a482f@gmail.com>
References: <b2f5e4c4-c790-4011-cfed-a062066a482f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9cb49d4-e074-a399-3260-81d876bd356d@uni-konstanz.de>

Hello

Per default mailman is distributing whatever it gets.
Check your settings in admin page topic "Content filtering".


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

Am 22.04.20 um 15:11 schrieb Johannes Rohr:
> Dear all,
> 
> I would like to toggle a default setting for new users, name the
> HTML/plain text switch. In our use case, having everything converted to
> plain text by default is not very practical.
> 
> I am not sure how I achieve this, this question isn't mentioned in the
> FAQ either. I am looking for a global switch to be put in mm_cfg.py or a
> local config option for each of the lists. So far I haven't found either.
> 
> Would greatly appreciate any hint!!!
> 
> Johannes
> 


From jorohr at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 10:36:01 2020
From: jorohr at gmail.com (Johannes Rohr)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:36:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Toggle plain text setting for new users
In-Reply-To: <c9cb49d4-e074-a399-3260-81d876bd356d@uni-konstanz.de>
References: <b2f5e4c4-c790-4011-cfed-a062066a482f@gmail.com>
 <c9cb49d4-e074-a399-3260-81d876bd356d@uni-konstanz.de>
Message-ID: <4618310.31r3eYUQgx@tommy>

Am Mittwoch, 22. April 2020, 16:09:49 CEST schrieb Mailman-admin:
> Hello
> 
> Per default mailman is distributing whatever it gets.
> Check your settings in admin page topic "Content filtering".

Thanks, but I am not asking about global filtering rules (which are disabled anyway (The 
preset is that filter_content is set to "no").

What I am asking about is the per-user setting: 

When you go to /members  you will see that in the members table, the second column 
from the right is called "plain" and if the box is ticket, messages are delivered as plain text. 
And the preset is that the box /is/ ticked. 

I would like to find out how I can toggle the preset.

Cheers,

Johannes


> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Christian Mack
> 
> Am 22.04.20 um 15:11 schrieb Johannes Rohr:
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > I would like to toggle a default setting for new users, name the
> > HTML/plain text switch. In our use case, having everything converted to
> > plain text by default is not very practical.
> > 
> > I am not sure how I achieve this, this question isn't mentioned in the
> > FAQ either. I am looking for a global switch to be put in mm_cfg.py or a
> > local config option for each of the lists. So far I haven't found either.
> > 
> > Would greatly appreciate any hint!!!
> > 
> > Johannes
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jorohr%40gmail.com



From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Apr 22 11:59:53 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:59:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Toggle plain text setting for new users
In-Reply-To: <4618310.31r3eYUQgx@tommy>
References: <b2f5e4c4-c790-4011-cfed-a062066a482f@gmail.com>
 <c9cb49d4-e074-a399-3260-81d876bd356d@uni-konstanz.de>
 <4618310.31r3eYUQgx@tommy>
Message-ID: <276ab91a-95a9-f1fe-1d89-b39226542940@msapiro.net>

On 4/22/20 7:36 AM, Johannes Rohr wrote:
> 
> What I am asking about is the per-user setting: 
> 
> When you go to /members  you will see that in the members table, the second column 
> from the right is called "plain" and if the box is ticket, messages are delivered as plain text. 
> And the preset is that the box /is/ ticked. 
> 
> I would like to find out how I can toggle the preset.


First of all, that setting is only applicable for digest subscriber and
controls whether they are sent the plain text or the HTML version of the
digest. If the 'digest' setting just left of the 'plain' setting is
unchecked, the 'plain' setting has no effect.

The default for the 'plain' setting is Digest options ->
mime_is_default_digest. The global default for new lists is the
mm_cfg.py setting DEFAULT_MIME_IS_DEFAULT_DIGEST.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jorohr at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 13:04:30 2020
From: jorohr at gmail.com (Johannes Rohr)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:04:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Toggle plain text setting for new users
In-Reply-To: <276ab91a-95a9-f1fe-1d89-b39226542940@msapiro.net>
References: <b2f5e4c4-c790-4011-cfed-a062066a482f@gmail.com>
 <4618310.31r3eYUQgx@tommy> <276ab91a-95a9-f1fe-1d89-b39226542940@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <4592415.GXAFRqVoOG@tommy>

Am Mittwoch, 22. April 2020, 17:59:53 CEST schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> On 4/22/20 7:36 AM, Johannes Rohr wrote:
> > What I am asking about is the per-user setting:
> > 
> > When you go to /members  you will see that in the members table, the
> > second column from the right is called "plain" and if the box is ticket,
> > messages are delivered as plain text. And the preset is that the box /is/
> > ticked.
> > 
> > I would like to find out how I can toggle the preset.
> 
> First of all, that setting is only applicable for digest subscriber and
> controls whether they are sent the plain text or the HTML version of the
> digest.

Ah, ok, thanks Ben!! In that case it doesn't really matter because very few 
people receive the digests.

[...]

> The default for the 'plain' setting is Digest options ->
> mime_is_default_digest. The global default for new lists is the
> mm_cfg.py setting DEFAULT_MIME_IS_DEFAULT_DIGEST.

Great, thanks!!

Johannes



From csa at web-analysts.net  Fri Apr 24 17:36:01 2020
From: csa at web-analysts.net (csa at web-analysts.net)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:36:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dkim for several mailman lists on one server
Message-ID: <028c01d61a80$5ecd0980$1c671c80$@web-analysts.net>

Ubuntu 16, Mailman 2.1.20, postfix 3.1.0

I'm running several mailing lists each with a virtual domain. I set up DKIM
for lists.domainname.tld but am getting DKIM signature missing at
https://dkimvalidator.com . It's saying it wants a DKIM for
hostname.domainname.tld. When I look at the mail log I see entries like this

Apr 19 07:49:42 hostname opendkim[1738]: 091CE1205AE: s=ppsdkim d=ucsf.edu
SSL error:04091068:rsa routines:INT_RSA_VERIFY:bad signature

Apr 24 09:25:31 hostname opendkim[1738]: 3B7CA120431: s=mail
d=domainname.tld SSL error:04091068:rsa routines:INT_RSA_VERIFY:bad
signature

Lastly, I'm confused by the term in the Mailman interface of  ' host_name'
where it says

host_name (general): Host name this list prefers for email.

The "host_name" is the preferred name for email to mailman-related addresses
on this host, and generally should be the mail host's exchanger address, if
any. This setting can be useful for selecting among alternative names of a
host that has multiple addresses.

Is the host-name literal for my server? Right now I have it set at
lists.domainname.tld. Is that incorrect?

Finally, my mailing list distribution success is mixed. Some users get them,
while others do not.

Thank you.

Christian


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Apr 24 18:49:57 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:49:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] dkim for several mailman lists on one server
In-Reply-To: <028c01d61a80$5ecd0980$1c671c80$@web-analysts.net>
References: <028c01d61a80$5ecd0980$1c671c80$@web-analysts.net>
Message-ID: <2d303ca3-31b5-ea68-8b5c-756616dd07b1@msapiro.net>

On 4/24/20 2:36 PM, csa--- via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Ubuntu 16, Mailman 2.1.20, postfix 3.1.0
> 
> I'm running several mailing lists each with a virtual domain. I set up DKIM
> for lists.domainname.tld but am getting DKIM signature missing at
> https://dkimvalidator.com . It's saying it wants a DKIM for
> hostname.domainname.tld. When I look at the mail log I see entries like this


The configuration of opendkim is outside the scope of this list. As an
example however, the server that sends this list's mail is
mail.python.org, but it dkim signs from the python.org domain.

In any case, the public key text record needs to be in DNS at
sss._domainkey.ddd where sss is the selector and ddd is the domain in
the DKIM signature.


> Apr 19 07:49:42 hostname opendkim[1738]: 091CE1205AE: s=ppsdkim d=ucsf.edu
> SSL error:04091068:rsa routines:INT_RSA_VERIFY:bad signature
> 
> Apr 24 09:25:31 hostname opendkim[1738]: 3B7CA120431: s=mail
> d=domainname.tld SSL error:04091068:rsa routines:INT_RSA_VERIFY:bad
> signature
> 
> Lastly, I'm confused by the term in the Mailman interface of  ' host_name'
> where it says
> 
...> Is the host-name literal for my server? Right now I have it set at
> lists.domainname.tld. Is that incorrect?


Mailman's host_name setting should be the domain to wich you send list
mail. If the list's posting address is listname at lists.domainname.tld,
then lists.domainname.tld is correct, but if you post to
listname at domainname.tld, then host_name should be domainname.tld.


> Finally, my mailing list distribution success is mixed. Some users get them,
> while others do not.


And without information from the failed recipients ISPs as to why they
discarded or spam filtered the mail, you won't know why, unless of
course they outright bounce it in which case the reason should be in the
bounce DSNs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ls at proasyl.de  Sun Apr 26 12:05:17 2020
From: ls at proasyl.de (Lothar Schilling)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:05:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
Message-ID: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>

Hi everybody,

today I tried to migrate our whole mailman installation to another server.

Old server: Centos 6.10, Mailman 2.1.29, Python 2.6.6

New server: Centos 7.7, Mailman 2.1.30 (from the tgz file), Python 2.7.5

It seemed to be an easy transition. But then I started to realize I've 
run into problems. For example, I can't release a moderated message. 
Also, I cannot switch users from moderated to not moderated or hidden to 
unhidden. The error logs look like this:

Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] 
Operation not permitted
Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Traceback (most recent call last):
Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) SHUNTING: 
1587915493.168592+122b90464edb8dfe2a33eb4e84fd036f0943019c
Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587915493.168592+bfc8cbc934795ac0c0d663ac31c3ea3df13e9b59.bak
Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 2] No 
such file or directory: 
'/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587916338.266272+f1e11334def7f62140a3442c10bd6b56268d9010.pck'
Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Traceback (most recent call last):
Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Skipping and preserving unparseable 
message: 1587916338.266272+f1e11334def7f62140a3442c10bd6b56268d9010
Apr 26 17:52:19 2020 (11726) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
/var/spool/mailman/out/1587916338.266272+5c0165dec7b0fdd4e3851688a77b8e31a99b015d.bak
Apr 26 17:52:20 2020 (11727) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587916338.285911+c4b5275fd082841b395994955b37f5f85569bba9.bak

Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): Traceback (most recent call last):
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? main()
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? qrunner.run()
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? self._cleanup()
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? self._register_bounces()
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in 
_register_bounces
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? mlist.Save()
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 578, in Save
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? self.__save(dict)
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 555, in __save
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):????? os.link(fname, fname_last)
Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): OSError :? [Errno 1] Operation not 
permitted

Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): Traceback (most recent call last):
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? main()
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? qrunner.run()
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? self._cleanup()
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? self._register_bounces()
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in 
_register_bounces
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? mlist.Save()
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 578, in Save
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? self.__save(dict)
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):?? File 
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 555, in __save
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):????? os.link(fname, fname_last)
Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): OSError :? [Errno 1] Operation not 
permitted

 ?/usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f didn't give me any errors.

I also tried to fall back to Centos' standard mailman package which is 
2.1.15 but to no avail.

This took me all day and I'm still where I was in the morning. Any help 
out there?

Thank you very much!

Lothar Schilling

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 26 12:37:40 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 09:37:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
References: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
Message-ID: <e88e919d-c192-9513-dd6e-a8e97b26b0f7@msapiro.net>

On 4/26/20 9:05 AM, Lothar Schilling wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> today I tried to migrate our whole mailman installation to another server.
> 
> Old server: Centos 6.10, Mailman 2.1.29, Python 2.6.6
> 
> New server: Centos 7.7, Mailman 2.1.30 (from the tgz file), Python 2.7.5
> 
> It seemed to be an easy transition. But then I started to realize I've
> run into problems. For example, I can't release a moderated message.
> Also, I cannot switch users from moderated to not moderated or hidden to
> unhidden. The error logs look like this:
> 
> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1]
> Operation not permitted
...


It looks like you have permission issues. Have you run Mailman's
bin/check_perms?

Do you have SELinux enabled? If so, try disabling it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From tcora at skylands.ibmwr.org  Sun Apr 26 12:44:33 2020
From: tcora at skylands.ibmwr.org (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 12:44:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
References: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
Message-ID: <1324EB96-D8F7-422F-BA56-0E6096F26EFB@skylands.ibmwr.org>

David: Your qrunner exceptions sound surprisingly like a problem I had earlier this week with a new install of 2.1.30.

In Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py

change line 60 
from: while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
to: while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase[:26] or

Restart mailman and see how things go from there.

?
Tom Coradeschi
tcora at skylands.ibmwr.org


> On 26 Apr 2020, at 12:05 PM, Lothar Schilling <ls at proasyl.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody,
> 
> today I tried to migrate our whole mailman installation to another server.
> 
> Old server: Centos 6.10, Mailman 2.1.29, Python 2.6.6
> 
> New server: Centos 7.7, Mailman 2.1.30 (from the tgz file), Python 2.7.5
> 
> It seemed to be an easy transition. But then I started to realize I've run into problems. For example, I can't release a moderated message. Also, I cannot switch users from moderated to not moderated or hidden to unhidden. The error logs look like this:
> 
> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted
> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Traceback (most recent call last):
> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) SHUNTING: 1587915493.168592+122b90464edb8dfe2a33eb4e84fd036f0943019c
> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587915493.168592+bfc8cbc934795ac0c0d663ac31c3ea3df13e9b59.bak
> Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587916338.266272+f1e11334def7f62140a3442c10bd6b56268d9010.pck'
> Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Traceback (most recent call last):
> Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1587916338.266272+f1e11334def7f62140a3442c10bd6b56268d9010
> Apr 26 17:52:19 2020 (11726) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /var/spool/mailman/out/1587916338.266272+5c0165dec7b0fdd4e3851688a77b8e31a99b015d.bak
> Apr 26 17:52:20 2020 (11727) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: /var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587916338.285911+c4b5275fd082841b395994955b37f5f85569bba9.bak
> 
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): Traceback (most recent call last):
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      main()
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      qrunner.run()
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      self._cleanup()
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      self._register_bounces()
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in _register_bounces
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      mlist.Save()
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 578, in Save
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      self.__save(dict)
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 555, in __save
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694):      os.link(fname, fname_last)
> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): OSError :  [Errno 1] Operation not permitted
> 
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): Traceback (most recent call last):
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      main()
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      qrunner.run()
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      self._cleanup()
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      self._register_bounces()
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in _register_bounces
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      mlist.Save()
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 578, in Save
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      self.__save(dict)
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 555, in __save
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722):      os.link(fname, fname_last)
> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): OSError :  [Errno 1] Operation not permitted
> 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f didn't give me any errors.
> 
> I also tried to fall back to Centos' standard mailman package which is 2.1.15 but to no avail.
> 
> This took me all day and I'm still where I was in the morning. Any help out there?
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> Lothar Schilling
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tjcora%40icloud.com




?
Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com





?
Tom Coradeschi
tcora at skylands.ibmwr.org



From ls at proasyl.de  Sun Apr 26 12:57:34 2020
From: ls at proasyl.de (Lothar Schilling)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 18:57:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <e88e919d-c192-9513-dd6e-a8e97b26b0f7@msapiro.net>
References: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
 <e88e919d-c192-9513-dd6e-a8e97b26b0f7@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <1dd21f28-723a-68b6-121d-cd441e21e4d5@proasyl.de>

Yes I did check the permissons several times, everything is fine. And 
no, SELinux was and still is disabled.

Am 26.04.2020 um 18:37 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> On 4/26/20 9:05 AM, Lothar Schilling wrote:
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> today I tried to migrate our whole mailman installation to another server.
>>
>> Old server: Centos 6.10, Mailman 2.1.29, Python 2.6.6
>>
>> New server: Centos 7.7, Mailman 2.1.30 (from the tgz file), Python 2.7.5
>>
>> It seemed to be an easy transition. But then I started to realize I've
>> run into problems. For example, I can't release a moderated message.
>> Also, I cannot switch users from moderated to not moderated or hidden to
>> unhidden. The error logs look like this:
>>
>> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1]
>> Operation not permitted
> ...
>
>
> It looks like you have permission issues. Have you run Mailman's
> bin/check_perms?
>
> Do you have SELinux enabled? If so, try disabling it.
>

From ls at proasyl.de  Sun Apr 26 13:01:19 2020
From: ls at proasyl.de (Lothar Schilling)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 19:01:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <61ff6516-86a1-af66-bfc9-6e107d581002@proasyl.de>
References: <61ff6516-86a1-af66-bfc9-6e107d581002@proasyl.de>
Message-ID: <3f1d8897-c5c4-88b0-64b5-5e18527f148b@proasyl.de>

Hi Tom,

this is not meant for me, is it? My name's not David. Also, my problem 
is of a different kind.

Regards

Lothar Schilling

Am 26.04.2020 um 18:44 schrieb Tom Coradeschi:
> David: Your qrunner exceptions sound surprisingly like a problem I had 
> earlier this week with a new install of 2.1.30.
>
> In Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py
>
> change line 60
> from: while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or
> to: while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase[:26] or
>
> Restart mailman and see how things go from there.
>
> ?
> Tom Coradeschi
> tcora at skylands.ibmwr.org
>
>
>> On 26 Apr 2020, at 12:05 PM, Lothar Schilling <ls at proasyl.de> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> today I tried to migrate our whole mailman installation to another 
>> server.
>>
>> Old server: Centos 6.10, Mailman 2.1.29, Python 2.6.6
>>
>> New server: Centos 7.7, Mailman 2.1.30 (from the tgz file), Python 2.7.5
>>
>> It seemed to be an easy transition. But then I started to realize 
>> I've run into problems. For example, I can't release a moderated 
>> message. Also, I cannot switch users from moderated to not moderated 
>> or hidden to unhidden. The error logs look like this:
>>
>> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] 
>> Operation not permitted
>> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Traceback (most recent call last):
>> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) SHUNTING: 
>> 1587915493.168592+122b90464edb8dfe2a33eb4e84fd036f0943019c
>> Apr 26 17:38:16 2020 (11727) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
>> /var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587915493.168592+bfc8cbc934795ac0c0d663ac31c3ea3df13e9b59.bak
>> Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 2] No 
>> such file or directory: 
>> '/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587916338.266272+f1e11334def7f62140a3442c10bd6b56268d9010.pck'
>> Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Traceback (most recent call last):
>> Apr 26 17:52:18 2020 (11727) Skipping and preserving unparseable 
>> message: 1587916338.266272+f1e11334def7f62140a3442c10bd6b56268d9010
>> Apr 26 17:52:19 2020 (11726) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
>> /var/spool/mailman/out/1587916338.266272+5c0165dec7b0fdd4e3851688a77b8e31a99b015d.bak
>> Apr 26 17:52:20 2020 (11727) Failed to unlink/preserve backup file: 
>> /var/spool/mailman/virgin/1587916338.285911+c4b5275fd082841b395994955b37f5f85569bba9.bak
>>
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): main()
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): qrunner.run()
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): self._cleanup()
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): self._register_bounces()
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in 
>> _register_bounces
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): mlist.Save()
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 578, in Save
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): self.__save(dict)
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 555, in __save
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): os.link(fname, fname_last)
>> Apr 26 17:53:13 2020 qrunner(11694): OSError : [Errno 1] Operation 
>> not permitted
>>
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in <module>
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): main()
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): qrunner.run()
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): self._cleanup()
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 263, in _cleanup
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 137, in _cleanup
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): self._register_bounces()
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 126, in 
>> _register_bounces
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): mlist.Save()
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 578, in Save
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): self.__save(dict)
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): File 
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 555, in __save
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): os.link(fname, fname_last)
>> Apr 26 17:53:16 2020 qrunner(11722): OSError : [Errno 1] Operation 
>> not permitted
>>
>> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f didn't give me any errors.
>>
>> I also tried to fall back to Centos' standard mailman package which 
>> is 2.1.15 but to no avail.
>>
>> This took me all day and I'm still where I was in the morning. Any 
>> help out there?
>>
>> Thank you very much!
>>
>> Lothar Schilling
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tjcora%40icloud.com
>
>
>
> ?
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora at icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ?
> Tom Coradeschi
> tcora at skylands.ibmwr.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ls%40proasyl.de

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Apr 26 13:46:48 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:46:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <1dd21f28-723a-68b6-121d-cd441e21e4d5@proasyl.de>
References: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
 <e88e919d-c192-9513-dd6e-a8e97b26b0f7@msapiro.net>
 <1dd21f28-723a-68b6-121d-cd441e21e4d5@proasyl.de>
Message-ID: <d5ca796a-3d86-6ea2-0f25-87ae9a82291b@msapiro.net>

On 4/26/20 9:57 AM, Lothar Schilling wrote:
> Yes I did check the permissons several times, everything is fine. And
> no, SELinux was and still is disabled.


What user is running Mailman's qrunners?

ps -fwwA|grep qrunner

And what does

ls -laR /var/spool/mailman /var/lib/mailman

give?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From ls at proasyl.de  Mon Apr 27 02:04:15 2020
From: ls at proasyl.de (Lothar Schilling)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 08:04:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <d5ca796a-3d86-6ea2-0f25-87ae9a82291b@msapiro.net>
References: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
 <e88e919d-c192-9513-dd6e-a8e97b26b0f7@msapiro.net>
 <1dd21f28-723a-68b6-121d-cd441e21e4d5@proasyl.de>
 <d5ca796a-3d86-6ea2-0f25-87ae9a82291b@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <71fb29db-c9a7-50bb-ed5f-dc4837154972@proasyl.de>

Am 26.04.2020 um 19:46 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> On 4/26/20 9:57 AM, Lothar Schilling wrote:
>> Yes I did check the permissons several times, everything is fine. And
>> no, SELinux was and still is disabled.
>
> What user is running Mailman's qrunners?
>
> ps -fwwA|grep qrunner
>
> And what does
>
> ls -laR /var/spool/mailman /var/lib/mailman
>
> give?

ps -fwwA | grep qrunner

mailman?? 7439? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7440? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7441? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7442? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7443? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7444? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7445? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7446? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7468? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7469? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7470? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7471? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7472? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7473? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7474? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman?? 7475? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

ls -laR /var/spool/mailman

drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096 26. Apr 17:38 archive
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096 26. Apr 17:52 bad
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096 26. Apr 17:39 bounces
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096? 9. Okt 2015? commands
drwxrws---?? root??? mailman? 4096 26. Apr 17:52 in
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096? 9. Okt 2015? news
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman 77824 26. Apr 17:52 out
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096? 9. Okt 2015? retry
drwxrws---?? mailman mailman? 4096 26. Apr 17:38 shunt
drwxrws---?? root??? mailman 86016 26. Apr 17:52 virgin

ls -laR /var/lib/mailman
All files & directories have: -rwxrwsr-x?? apache mailman

 ?/usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
"Keine Probleme aufgetreten"


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 27 12:42:01 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:42:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble migrating
In-Reply-To: <71fb29db-c9a7-50bb-ed5f-dc4837154972@proasyl.de>
References: <dae26f38-9e69-9fba-2c27-c273eb9a1aa4@proasyl.de>
 <e88e919d-c192-9513-dd6e-a8e97b26b0f7@msapiro.net>
 <1dd21f28-723a-68b6-121d-cd441e21e4d5@proasyl.de>
 <d5ca796a-3d86-6ea2-0f25-87ae9a82291b@msapiro.net>
 <71fb29db-c9a7-50bb-ed5f-dc4837154972@proasyl.de>
Message-ID: <09c2e286-fd37-9610-d4f6-b7ee73e46fa4@msapiro.net>

On 4/26/20 11:04 PM, Lothar Schilling wrote:
> 
> ps -fwwA | grep qrunner
> 
> mailman?? 7439? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7440? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7441? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7442? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7443? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7444? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7445? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7446? 7438? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7468? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7469? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7470? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7471? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7472? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7473? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7474? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman?? 7475? 7467? 0 07:51 ???????? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


This may be a separate issue, but you have two Mailman instances
running. See <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030715> for how this can happen
and what to do about it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From johnson at Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU  Mon Apr 27 14:21:41 2020
From: johnson at Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU (Bruce  Johnson)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:21:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very strange issue With Mailman + Exchange(?)
Message-ID: <9BB2946B-0763-4E1E-8326-1591F15D65B0@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

I am not sure how to figure this out.

Lengthy explanation:

Internally in our Exchange server, that address is a distribution group whose only member is the actual <list-name>@lists.pharmacy.arizona.edu, because the Mailman server is not our mail server. (we have a mildly complicated setup: hybrid OnPrem and O365 exchange + Barracuda spam appliance in front of all of it, which is our actual SMTP server.  

Outgoing email from the list server bypasses Exchange and is sent directly to the Barracuda SMTP server.

For two users and ONLY these two users, somewhere between them and mailman and back, the Mailman list is being expanded to put all the members of the list on the CC line. It then gets held for approval with a ?too many addresses? message.

I have watched them send an email to the affected list; the list address is NOT in their local address cache, and they are NOT entering any other addresses in the email other than the list address. The only address that appears on the email in their Sent folder is the list address.

Other users in our organization can send to these same lists without this happening. In fact one of the affected users can send to *other* lists on our server with no problems. These are two different lists.

I don?t know that this is specifically a Mailman problem (because it?s only happening with specific users) but I cannot see how  list members are getting stuffed on the CC line otherwise; because Exchange only knows the list address, not the members; only Mailman does.

TLDR: Somehow the all the list addresses are getting stuck onto the list message which then holds it for approval for ?too many addresses?.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Apr 27 15:11:23 2020
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:11:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very strange issue With Mailman + Exchange(?)
In-Reply-To: <9BB2946B-0763-4E1E-8326-1591F15D65B0@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <9BB2946B-0763-4E1E-8326-1591F15D65B0@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <abde4fab-3967-ad48-cfe4-cf0178dbcd0b@msapiro.net>

On 4/27/20 11:21 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> I am not sure how to figure this out.
> 
> Lengthy explanation:
> 
> For two users and ONLY these two users, somewhere between them and mailman and back, the Mailman list is being expanded to put all the members of the list on the CC line. It then gets held for approval with a ?too many addresses? message.
...
> TLDR: Somehow the all the list addresses are getting stuck onto the list message which then holds it for approval for ?too many addresses?.


I'm really guessing here, but I suspect that the list is not VERPing or
personalizing delivery and the default setting for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is not
overridden with a small number.

In this case Mailman will send the outgoing message in only a few SMTP
transactions with lots of recipients each. In fact, if this is and
internal list and all the recipients are all in the same TLD, Mailman
will send to all the recipients in one transaction with multiple RCPT TO
commands. I.e., the envelope recipients for the message will be the
whole list, at least if there are fewer than 500 members.

Some MUAs will add the envelope recipients to an X-Apparently-To: header
and I wouldn't put it past Exchange to put them in Cc: even though this
could effectively break Bcc:.

All that notwithstanding, this is the outgoing message, and IIUC the
message never gets posted to the list, unless there's some convoluted
process which reflects the outgoing message back to the list.

I would start by examining the Received: chain in the headers of the
held message to see where it's been.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan