From fmouse at fmp.com Sat Nov 2 19:30:28 2019 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 18:30:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber password override? Message-ID: <1572737428.29705.26.camel@fmp.com> I have signed a neighbor up to a mailing list I administer. She's borderline computer literate and hates passwords, so I said I'd assign her a simple password. It seems that Mailman 2 doesn't allow the list administrator to assign passwords and I get "Error: The list administrator may not change the password for a user" when I try. Is there any way to override this? There should be, since passwords are as much for protection of the integrity of a list's subscriber base as they are for protection of a subscriber - and this is rightfully a concern of the list admin, as is helping subscribers who need some hand holding. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The only unchanging certainty FMP Computer Services | is the certainty of change" 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | - Ancient wisdom, all cultures From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sat Nov 2 19:46:36 2019 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 19:46:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe Message-ID: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> i received a notification that one of the users on my list was unsubscribed. I'm surprise because the configuration for the list specified that unsubscribes have to be approved, and this wasn't. How could that happen? /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell bernie at fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Sat Nov 2 19:53:31 2019 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 19:53:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> References: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: Hi, If the notification was sent at 9:00 AM server time, it probably means the subscriber was bouncing Email (changed their Email address and didn't update their list subscription, their mail server thinks your messages are spam, etc.) and didn't respond to multiple "Your mail is bouncing, click here if you received this message" Emails. If this is the case and the list is in the default configuration, you should assume they haven't been receiving Email for at least three weeks. Jayson On 11/2/2019 7:46 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > i received a notification that one of the users on my list was unsubscribed. I'm > surprise because the configuration for the list specified that unsubscribes have to > be approved, and this wasn't. How could that happen? > > /Bernie\ > Bernie Cosell > bernie at fantasyfarm.com > -- Too many people; too few sheep -- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaybird%40bluegrasspals.com > > From mark at msapiro.net Sat Nov 2 19:56:11 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 16:56:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> References: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: <6f38ad6d-4215-a4a9-cc41-bae468c7a600@msapiro.net> On 11/2/19 4:46 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > i received a notification that one of the users on my list was unsubscribed. I'm > surprise because the configuration for the list specified that unsubscribes have to > be approved, and this wasn't. How could that happen? The list's unsubscribe_policy only applies to user initiated unsubscribes. Unsubscribes by an admin or by bounce processing don't require approval. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sat Nov 2 20:10:09 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 17:10:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber password override? In-Reply-To: <1572737428.29705.26.camel@fmp.com> References: <1572737428.29705.26.camel@fmp.com> Message-ID: On 11/2/19 4:30 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > I have signed a neighbor up to a mailing list I administer. She's > borderline computer literate and hates passwords, so I said I'd assign > her a simple password. It seems that Mailman 2 doesn't allow the list > administrator to assign passwords and I get "Error: The list > administrator may not change the password for a user" when I try. That's correct. > Is there any way to override this? There should be, since passwords are > as much for protection of the integrity of a list's subscriber base as > they are for protection of a subscriber - and this is rightfully a > concern of the list admin, as is helping subscribers who need some hand > holding. A list admin can't override it except by logging in to the user's options page as the user with the user's current password which the admin may not know. A site admin can find the users password via bin/dumpdb of the lists config.pck or can find the password and change it via bin/withlist. Assuming you are not a site admin, you can ask her to forward the list welcome message she received with her current password, or as a list admin, you can remove her from the list, then subscribe her from the listinfo page with the desired password, and tell her to follow the link in the confirmation request email she receives. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fmouse at fmp.com Sat Nov 2 20:49:31 2019 From: fmouse at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 19:49:31 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber password override? In-Reply-To: References: <1572737428.29705.26.camel@fmp.com> Message-ID: <341d414634911ca75b745e23fbe587921cd3fe5e.camel@fmp.com> On Sat, 2019-11-02 at 17:10 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > A site admin can find the users password via bin/dumpdb of the lists > config.pck or can find the password and change it via bin/withlist. This sounds promising. > Assuming you are not a site admin, you can ask her to forward the list > welcome message she received with her current password, I've been trying this with her. She works her Gmail from an Android smartphone, and can't find the Forward button on the Welcome message, if indeed she recognizes it in her inbox. She's a good friend, but elderly and pretty slow (actually _very_ slow) with computers. I'm a bit apprehensive about having her on an email-based list at all. > or as a list > admin, you can remove her from the list, then subscribe her from the > listinfo page with the desired password, and tell her to follow the link > in the confirmation request email she receives. Following a link in a confirmation email may be pushing it with her :( -- Lindsay Haisley | "The first casualty when FMP Computer Services | war comes is truth." 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | -- Hiram W Johnson From bernie at fantasyfarm.com Sun Nov 3 06:05:04 2019 From: bernie at fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 06:05:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <09d069ca-11f6-2b61-6134-ab1f61235f44@msapiro.net> References: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>, <5DBE1957.22138.219F098C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com>, <09d069ca-11f6-2b61-6134-ab1f61235f44@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <5DBEB460.11942.23FCA437@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> On 2 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/2/19 5:03 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > ... Here's the > > message i got.. no reason why: > > > > Subject: NPL-Folk unsubscribe notification > > From: mailman-bounces at lists.puzzlers.org > > To: npl-folk-owner at lists.puzzlers.org > > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 22:24:21 -0700 > > Sender: "NPL-Folk" > > > > deartom at hotmail.com has been removed from NPL-Folk. > > > This is the generic unsubscribe notification from the list's > .ApprovedDeleteMember method. Starting with Mailman 2.1.27, it also > reported the source of the unsubscribe. The source is reported in the > entry in Mailman's subscribe log if you have access to that. Nope. I have no access to that and I just got another "has been removed" message this morning. Is there any way for a non-privileged mailman admin to figure out why? I didn't get any "bounce score incremented" messages for either unsubscribe. /Bernie\ Bernie Cosell bernie at fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- From Richard at Damon-Family.org Sun Nov 3 07:08:57 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 07:08:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <5DBEB460.11942.23FCA437@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> References: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> <5DBE1957.22138.219F098C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> <09d069ca-11f6-2b61-6134-ab1f61235f44@msapiro.net> <5DBEB460.11942.23FCA437@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: <079c3bae-8124-4091-0620-ca82d7f006f8@Damon-Family.org> On 11/3/19 6:05 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > On 2 Nov 2019 at 21:23, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> On 11/2/19 5:03 PM, Bernie Cosell wrote: >>> ... Here's the >>> message i got.. no reason why: >>> >>> Subject: NPL-Folk unsubscribe notification >>> From: mailman-bounces at lists.puzzlers.org >>> To: npl-folk-owner at lists.puzzlers.org >>> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 22:24:21 -0700 >>> Sender: "NPL-Folk" >>> >>> deartom at hotmail.com has been removed from NPL-Folk. >> >> This is the generic unsubscribe notification from the list's >> .ApprovedDeleteMember method. Starting with Mailman 2.1.27, it also >> reported the source of the unsubscribe. The source is reported in the >> entry in Mailman's subscribe log if you have access to that. > Nope. I have no access to that and I just got another "has been removed" > message this morning. Is there any way for a non-privileged mailman admin to > figure out why? I didn't get any "bounce score incremented" messages for either > unsubscribe. > > /Bernie\ > > Bernie Cosell > bernie at fantasyfarm.com > -- Too many people; too few sheep -- > Its possible that your hosting service has disabled the option to require approval to unsubscribe -- Richard Damon From mark at msapiro.net Sun Nov 3 12:36:40 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 09:36:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <5DBEB460.11942.23FCA437@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> References: <5DBE155C.12198.218F7BFB@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> <5DBE1957.22138.219F098C@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> <09d069ca-11f6-2b61-6134-ab1f61235f44@msapiro.net> <5DBEB460.11942.23FCA437@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> Message-ID: <3d740816-533a-3349-df02-326879ac8c4d@msapiro.net> On 11/3/19 3:05 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > > Nope. I have no access to that and I just got another "has been removed" > message this morning. Is there any way for a non-privileged mailman admin to > figure out why? I didn't get any "bounce score incremented" messages for either > unsubscribe. What is the time stamp on these unsubscribe notices? Also, if the users are being unsubscribed by bounce processing, and assuming you have default settings for bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings (3) and bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval (7), any bounce score incremented or delivery disabled notice would have been at least 3 weeks earlier. You might be able to get your hosting provider to provide the log messages from Mailman's subscribe log. They will be of the form