From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Sat Jul 6 08:04:58 2019 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 08:04:58 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Roadrunner/TWC blocking Emails Message-ID: <8a9aa717-184b-2d6d-b5a3-d9e857a7d182@bluegrasspals.com> Hi, I run a few Mailman lists, and yesterday evening I started having trouble sending Email to Roadrunner customers. I figured it was a temporary failure of some kind, until this morning when I received the same bounces. Whenever Sendmail connects to a Roadrunner Email server, it immediately gets this error: ?? ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to dnvrco-cmedge01.email.rr.com.: <<< 554 dnvrco-cmimta17 esmtp ESMTP server not available AUP#I-1000 ... while talking to dnvrco-cmedge02.email.rr.com.: <<< 554 dnvrco-cmimta14 esmtp ESMTP server not available AUP#I-1000 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable Various attempts at Googling this error have lead me to believe that my IP may have been blacklisted by RR/TWC for some reason. Since the blocking happens immediately upon connect, my server doesn't have enough time to send enough information for RR/TWC to do an SPF check much less a DKIM validation. Various links I've tried to reach RR/TWC's postmaster site now lead to a Spectrum support page targeted at Spectrum customers having problems sending Email or receiving spam or other unwanted Email, not mail servers having problems sending into Spectrum/Roadrunner/TWC. Does anyone here know of an up-to-date link where I can find out if my IP is blacklisted by them, submit a removal request, etc? Various RBL checking tools indicate I'm not on any blacklists, and several reputation check tools show my IP as being clean. I don't know?and probably never will?why Time Warner/Roadrunner would put me on their blacklist. This happened all of a sudden, a message addressed to two Roadrunner customers yesterday afternoon was accepted, then about five hours later they started blocking my IP. Thanks for any help, Jayson From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Sun Jul 7 01:59:03 2019 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2019 14:59:03 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Roadrunner/TWC blocking Emails In-Reply-To: <8a9aa717-184b-2d6d-b5a3-d9e857a7d182@bluegrasspals.com> References: <8a9aa717-184b-2d6d-b5a3-d9e857a7d182@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: <23841.35367.184941.562796@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Hi Jayson, Roadrunner has been problematic in this way for decades. They don't explain, they don't provide policy information or contact addresses, and their staff have frequently been snotty about DoS'ing their own customers. You may have already seen this thread on the Spectrum forums. I think that help requests from RR users will be most likely to get them to take action. This suggests that there are channels available to customers (apparently not very well publicized to RR users either!) https://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5/Email/Listserve-messages-sent-to-my-RoadRunner-account-are-blocked/td-p/155952 > ?? ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to dnvrco-cmedge01.email.rr.com.: > <<< 554 dnvrco-cmimta17 esmtp ESMTP server not available AUP#I-1000 > Various attempts at Googling this error have lead me to believe that my > IP may have been blacklisted by RR/TWC for some reason. Seems logical. 554 is an administrative denial, not a server issue, and AUP is likely to abbreviate "Acceptable Use Policy". As you say, if you don't get to HELO it's an IP-based or reverse-DNS-based policy of some kind. > Does anyone here know of an up-to-date link where I can find out if my > IP is blacklisted by them, submit a removal request, etc? The only thing I can suggest is mail to postmaster. (I seem to recall that that address may have been non-functional at times, and it's mentioned in the thread....) Steve From guest2 at sgeinc.com Sun Jul 7 13:57:43 2019 From: guest2 at sgeinc.com (Richard Shetron) Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2019 13:57:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Roadrunner/TWC blocking Emails In-Reply-To: <23841.35367.184941.562796@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8a9aa717-184b-2d6d-b5a3-d9e857a7d182@bluegrasspals.com> <23841.35367.184941.562796@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: I'll agree and they don't always pay attention to their users. I have road runner internet but separate email. On 7/7/2019 1:59 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Hi Jayson, > > Roadrunner has been problematic in this way for decades. They don't > explain, they don't provide policy information or contact addresses, > and their staff have frequently been snotty about DoS'ing their own > customers. > > You may have already seen this thread on the Spectrum forums. I think > that help requests from RR users will be most likely to get them to > take action. This suggests that there are channels available to > customers (apparently not very well publicized to RR users either!) > > https://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5/Email/Listserve-messages-sent-to-my-RoadRunner-account-are-blocked/td-p/155952 > > > ?? ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to dnvrco-cmedge01.email.rr.com.: > > <<< 554 dnvrco-cmimta17 esmtp ESMTP server not available AUP#I-1000 > > > Various attempts at Googling this error have lead me to believe that my > > IP may have been blacklisted by RR/TWC for some reason. > > Seems logical. 554 is an administrative denial, not a server issue, > and AUP is likely to abbreviate "Acceptable Use Policy". As you say, > if you don't get to HELO it's an IP-based or reverse-DNS-based policy > of some kind. > > > Does anyone here know of an up-to-date link where I can find out if my > > IP is blacklisted by them, submit a removal request, etc? > > The only thing I can suggest is mail to postmaster. (I seem to recall > that that address may have been non-functional at times, and it's > mentioned in the thread....) > > Steve > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/guest2%40sgeinc.com > From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Jul 8 13:36:00 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:36:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) Message-ID: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 It has been brought to my attention again that Mailman supports one dialect of English, but declares that it the USA variant. What in Mailman makes the English language (translations?) specific to USA? In the interest of world perspectives, would a patch to convert it to just "English" be welcomed? - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl0jfwAACgkQPcxbabkK GJ/flhAAgwOWRK83sSLjOrU1T5myc9RDCVrbCeFTZaR++AuvYlQUun1QKysaue4L uEUiOU5gqSkLmamXfDvXExQfX1yuwWvz0Ea1OB94GofRtar5UsUuAV1Tp4+3PrRy IIYggufWCLv7ei+ZVQBF2TGeos7kxVkpGHbw4ujy6O02Ly3ZTj+jGHOrEWcq16/B cbCXfFdbTSyHKpx4UwOeuAbRJIU0tu9aT5eCgxAFwuALJD4SOdIGdH2/80t7xzW+ fosOUSToJVrttD0Br0iWm34Mf+Kc7H1ldTVdW9HyfsOzXYfz17SGCOq0WNkq3I3E UYEGtC0E/jteaPW1h7iRBMCvRZgFhHsACuMA8U8vNu4BWHvdV7gb5CU33fr5wi0t 54pHSv4xBkkCtFJIjt6rmRiZBR1JPwofOCLhikSPD811HE3Rzx6WgVjgr3900BYd ZLI2JNhMtTWfkZbniewJgvB2JDhckaRresU9+8W1uQSdJC/DI6gTbbVLrgg/ce8y c2bNksDxVWmms2OwrLZdGzfk+v+hiPmxeoVKmYKJSFn+AiW+I4+E6b58/btdBGhP IIy7wlKaU33dhMJYVKM71fOJrxoHMFoKbsWXLfvuyAbnNS5priLJenrEWL6BFVEb 2M1f/OpHilWsvX2Qf6XH/A8RwpXmnpsiJ/wqrwaFMhpG4IhhA5I= =UZMc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From luscheina at yahoo.de Mon Jul 8 15:06:52 2019 From: luscheina at yahoo.de (Christian F Buser) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 21:06:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> Hi Jim I do not know about where the English (US) and English (UK) languages differ in Mailman. But in school, half a century ago, I learnt (learned) about the differences in general. For example color / colour, center / centre, etc. And there are other expressions which are completely different in UK English and US English - see . There are probably many more. So if you want to "unify" those two, which variant to choose? Or better blend them into one - changing the spelling from one occurence to the other? Christian Hello Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users. On Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:36:00 -0400, you wrote: > It has been brought to my attention again that Mailman supports one > dialect of English, but declares that it the USA variant. What in > Mailman makes the English language (translations?) specific to USA? > > In the interest of world perspectives, would a patch to convert it to > just "English" be welcomed? > > - -Jim P. > -- Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland) Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Jul 8 15:15:46 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:15:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 21:06 +0200, Christian F Buser wrote: > Hi Jim > > I do not know about where the English (US) and English (UK) languages differ in Mailman. But in school, half a century ago, I learnt (learned) about the differences in general. For example color / colour, center / centre, etc. > > And there are other expressions which are completely different in UK English and US English - see . There are probably many more. > > So if you want to "unify" those two, which variant to choose? Or better blend them into one - changing the spelling from one occurence to the other? > > Christian > Now I'm confused. :-) I know about the differences in UK and US English are in general (color vs colour, etc), but I don't know about the differences within Mailman. Adding to my confusion is that my Mailman installs only have "English (USA)" and no "English (UK)", let alone any of the other English speaking countries. - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl0jlmIACgkQPcxbabkK GJ/agxAAr09fic6PYvgAV9xZvE9GbegXD+OXgPsikUlequzelkjj6v8+pW0+n4PX FbKZVtnF4k0b7TE59v9oiETaWL9/PB8OZieMK+ACDAZLkT+CM1RFzPwI2CajrL4/ 7dAEkyU6VFwOjsbT6sk2yBQ/PQh+fdSC5rsop1b4hLEgK9Bfo1jXVk9jBiMlHw/X EuzMKGQmy49Co0f+qGag2vRnJrhWVJzJSDTsAkY4FDBid4hwiW4Llp1xvsEUbfNL 0/wcxkN8zgeMCTAfGFoY+l7pc7xt1UjWohrdA/MnrCSgzusig3H+7x/GdI07aovb ivEpzQKdsaFrM7NAckdWfxC6mWkEWC1xV82Kw0u83zQKeX/VKfJfXkzo+QAhE4xQ 9gU2KmfShCDRbxlYqwKeUCSr0gw2f5TTBVLghkeOrSWw6nBJs8Q9jIIVWM87xLfn b3kCEgPk8lYDdtaJADm/ENRgf1RD2GPQGEQ0vzaZ3vntL/TctACedJg4aQjhVF7b DgioSODaBp1cVUnY/yZGCNmDzpkONsgB85h1rSeAbLUP5Usj1EljKXfgvXnPi0VO 171XvsX2g3oRZojy5ZK53UmpjZWx3qDT2g9DUm7OmJ1MZcuu5iZ2gilFbpq0hY5h y/5hLU/xf7x2+PEqmfMYqmcAjSukO/Lu3VJAxxER9Omso6rlZos= =imBc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From phils at caerllewys.net Mon Jul 8 15:25:01 2019 From: phils at caerllewys.net (Phil Stracchino) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:25:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> Message-ID: On 7/8/19 3:06 PM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote: > Hi Jim > > I do not know about where the English (US) and English (UK) languages differ in Mailman. But in school, half a century ago, I learnt (learned) about the differences in general. For example color / colour, center / centre, etc. > > And there are other expressions which are completely different in UK English and US English - see . There are probably many more. Well, that is true, but fundamentally none of the semantic differences between US and UK English usages are at all likely to come up in the context of anything within Mailman *itself*. They might come up in discussions *on lists*, but really the only differences that would affect Mailman are variations in spelling ? and it's a pretty safe bet there that practically anyone who is subscribing to a Mailman list in the first place isn't going to be thrown by those minor differences. It's not as though UK English spells password "phaughtrufflemote" or anything like that. -- Phil Stracchino Babylon Communications phils at caerllewys.net phil at co.ordinate.org Landline: +1.603.293.8485 Mobile: +1.603.998.6958 From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jul 8 15:46:26 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 12:46:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> On 7/8/19 12:15 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > Now I'm confused. :-) I know about the differences in UK and US English > are in general (color vs colour, etc), but I don't know about the > differences within Mailman. Adding to my confusion is that my Mailman > installs only have "English (USA)" and no "English (UK)", let alone any > of the other English speaking countries. Actually, there is no English (en, en-US, en-UK or other) message catalog distributed with Mailman. There are templates, but no message catalog. All of the translatable strings in the Mailman code are written in English, and since there is no English message catalog, they are untranslated when the target language is English. As far as whether or not any of the strings are specifically US rather than generic English is concerned, I don't know. One would have to audit the messages/mailman.pot file to determine that. However, I think a requirement that Mailman use only "generic" English and avoid any en-US that differs from other dialects would be unduly restrictive. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Jul 8 16:00:19 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 16:00:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 12:46 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/8/19 12:15 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > > > > Now I'm confused. :-) I know about the differences in UK and US English > > are in general (color vs colour, etc), but I don't know about the > > differences within Mailman. Adding to my confusion is that my Mailman > > installs only have "English (USA)" and no "English (UK)", let alone any > > of the other English speaking countries. > > > Actually, there is no English (en, en-US, en-UK or other) message > catalog distributed with Mailman. There are templates, but no message > catalog. All of the translatable strings in the Mailman code are written > in English, and since there is no English message catalog, they are > untranslated when the target language is English. > > As far as whether or not any of the strings are specifically US rather > than generic English is concerned, I don't know. One would have to audit > the messages/mailman.pot file to determine that. > > However, I think a requirement that Mailman use only "generic" English > and avoid any en-US that differs from other dialects would be unduly > restrictive. Just to be clear, I'm not proposing changes to any po strings, rather just the labels. The end result would be just "English" in the list of available languages for a list instead of "English (USA)". - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl0joNMACgkQPcxbabkK GJ9lEQ/8D5y4tjqWKz7LZg9B+1A2/lipYLj0pLi89S7c5NElfb2qObQCkd1sKqvJ c3DF16y3JJzdh73ImaGo6CCSDT85s7rmQwQW23b6kgAovwkDosLrs8bTqTYzngX0 by6h2GCiPlaccZQUotkONvVKbWUvO4I0pOXSc5TWsOdevfEtMnpuEqEe487bWfjt n4B8vFlNsH6ipkbqM0i5NVvVHglv80UmDdFL52KYoeri4rZ0OWpsKRhCHkWiA0Ys XdhqzoE4+LOiiPjJ9YUJmlMD4lV38A9iujlSQnXPFIhH9ChyzPWMe8zUPchsKzjb JrTPF5vls5STb7jbAtgqcHTFyruelXwQE3d8k2J90G2ak5jhbr5bNLPR4r/3cg4v OUmQC0JRc6HlIT3mVuBhL5Ly7lIXhdl7Dn9LiRTv88x81t2RTrfyXojrvG8CM00D S0RORpWaqb1FJL8CJjILSxILn32IZaEx2NhrvBr6f8LcSz+9nkeVOQ1zWckx/s3M j/t6X6b5PfaNRjOQPEKcWz2DnKSooQQEJ6eMJt6YpFo9OSJ3arwMPEP+e6NnLU+R SP8rquoIWQYp6Z2dqCz+xKL7d6RIu1lAD6/Q2GAC6Sp1/rm6/fgrJsK20bbj+1SM jyJ6MwkMrrUHiQz4v6ruYaXFtTEYiWYM/rAkhdCl7fzKcyM/Zeg= =ZJ6W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jul 8 16:32:35 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 13:32:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: On 7/8/19 1:00 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > Just to be clear, I'm not proposing changes to any po strings, rather > just the labels. The end result would be just "English" in the list of > available languages for a list instead of "English (USA)". Actually, you are proposing a change to a string. The string "English (USA)" is a translatable string which is translated in almost all of the 39 translations for display in the list of available languages on various web pages. Changing it from "English (USA)" to "English" would cause it to be displayed as "English" rather than the translation of "English (USA)" for any non-English view of those pages. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Jul 8 16:51:27 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 16:51:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <1562619087.12467.1.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 13:32 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/8/19 1:00 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > > > Just to be clear, I'm not proposing changes to any po strings, rather > > just the labels. The end result would be just "English" in the list of > > available languages for a list instead of "English (USA)". > > > Actually, you are proposing a change to a string. The string "English > (USA)" is a translatable string which is translated in almost all of the > 39 translations for display in the list of available languages on > various web pages. Changing it from "English (USA)" to "English" would > cause it to be displayed as "English" rather than the translation of > "English (USA)" for any non-English view of those pages. Agreed. What I was referring to when I said "po string" was the rest of the translated text that is in English (field descriptions, etc.) I just presumed that converting "English (USA)" to "English" was a translation that would occur in each po file. I just keep getting reminded that we specifically support USA English and we offer no other English language support. - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl0jrM8ACgkQPcxbabkK GJ9vsxAAwqL8IZYG5dgwhLzbp4To968LBL7mc5PxCc55MkyaxPqURh6nSyPfIoxE 62m3JNqZJzqJAOefF5iIE+hrgFoFPSCb6XlsKhJ5mOrw30K5vzl9AFtJMvHmHDPd lQl0IZ0o0y2I9TYa1etmjpxw5h+SJ5y9M0pwmpYM0laYrx1vVfLtVce4Lc4nKaI1 wHnmbjJ+KXhRjor6kDhSechJcw0Ho/Y75qP51BsRy5nyRzPLlONIepuxJ9wztffD EWZeWaoDiFMuGTxgeeDd/bFK0I1bGomD4SJZSNMpzIKyhhPcv3JAGPTFpkWQer/w cGLUHqIvA0q74disAnK7V/W9eGWwl8lwSEs1DqfLwbc4yhSO93rXpDbfJbm8CQ1q Dodr4B+htxyyEoW2aUD/AhU7F8As3cMfRt++Cf/Wchh0oJuWb9aoYn45Gme9d3CD XdcftBw4xVLakE5vFQQPreU7EyaNUXbR3ESsHfiH4V3nfjeGoGosRDr4KvqD3XhZ yG0GIpwpDR+OExLbDl4KeVCV4JCBqSuW5qB/tCfujrJaL/diFtmQmeRjCvTwVxub XGf+HEZQsv4q9oIq9GY9Yg2HRPpUaRgSVAAeZKOieNMU3WvRUNtrl+EQgWBt537i Nzyaktn2v//3A5Ebt6yQg7UEut+BeUbdAeAMHDgH432RbTyKxDQ= =h9C9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cpz at tuunq.com Mon Jul 8 17:17:49 2019 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:17:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <1562619087.12467.1.camel@domainmail.org> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> <1562619087.12467.1.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: On 7/8/2019 1:51 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > I just keep getting reminded that we specifically support USA English > and we offer no other English language support. I'm not clear on what other English needs support. (This kind of seems like a solution in search of a problem.) Later, z! From jimpop at domainmail.org Mon Jul 8 17:34:04 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 17:34:04 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> <1562619087.12467.1.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <1562621644.12467.3.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 14:17 -0700, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > On 7/8/2019 1:51 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > I just keep getting reminded that we specifically support USA English > > and we offer no other English language support. > > I'm not clear on what other English needs support. (This kind of seems like > a solution in search of a problem.) No other English needs support. But we are saying, in the list of languages, that only English (USA) is supported. For clarity, being an international application, we should just say that we support English. Imagine if Mailman supported "French (CA)" but not "French". - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl0jtswACgkQPcxbabkK GJ/m7g/8DrfKFdrmnEyzF/kS9PJvKd8tSq7G4nY+XNV9vOVYOggFqEzNV4Xj81Ai bXABIsl346VLMqmGB7es8Lsumhmt8ICi4B+e0FOiPLYe8xmqsV9vqrVnwaCpEkWM FZjiW7+x7kalCsvlSwtHUcFIkERj6KxK6pXCgPfBnhZ5HShCfEJZJpG2//6y9IeX ZsAWdx9o8Q3JvQCFYlWN/qbpR6KrL30xXdi6njmc//HP+0wzrv0R/PxJscZO35i4 zr0fakQaoVyN6upbreo1ugNwr5sfaY/sc++OukReuhAKjtgAOWWpS1JTbE56KWzh PzeR4OACi3SAZ/DHQdlY9remN2OAdpe0S8fHBZbCVfePiYkGXOEf6Hzs1898/e6K uK8KVl/Lm1+IS4SCwLLbb1kusVA7U1X6IT63MGpZUvmEaHPnm/J8DcaysHIQNwPH py29P0dCa64lsMjPwPS3eJ5gqL+Nz2MgPNAGDwgEuqTe+GU8iGnmsK0xqPJSuVDw Kq1KUrvsVButwM8UaZhdAaWa6Tu73yJ8upAiq3ctQR3alAU23iF8fLsVbSISrsay BpN2A5kY/xE1aushJM1rNj/1OBc8dnopmIrSTjPMQ/f3zR3fKVdIlurqg+/wGr3c g4uo2J3In4rKAGwx3YO/2IMkg79QxzHS0sayBfiKOBhPjZBY5nk= =wLfy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Mon Jul 8 23:40:43 2019 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 12:40:43 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <1562619087.12467.1.camel@domainmail.org> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <1562613346.9538.3.camel@domainmail.org> <57246a0b-248c-1059-8c09-44076ad10318@msapiro.net> <1562616019.9538.5.camel@domainmail.org> <1562619087.12467.1.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: <23844.3259.714602.287704@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes: > I just keep getting reminded By your users? By Tommy Robinson fans, Boris Johnson, and football hooligans? Or just when you see it in the list of supported languages? > that we specifically support USA English and we offer no other > English language support. Patches welcome. If somebody wants to provide idiomatic translations to other English dialects, they're welcome to do so. I'm waaaay too lazy to do it. ;-) I imagine that basically what happened is that ISO 639 provides a baroque format for describing languages, which includes identifying regional variation and other possible variations, as well as the language. The Mailman developers being mostly Americans, and wishing for the .po files to be consistent in spelling and idiom, we specified en_US as the language of the .po files. (Note that gettext doesn't know what's in the .po files; it could be a mixture of Portuguese, Russian, and Korean for all gettext cares.) Personally, I'd be against changing this. I'm not worried that anybody is going to think that other en dialects are completely unsupported, and I think it's important for us to show that as far as we are concerned en_US *is* a *dialect* that's convenient for us to use in developing programmatic messages, and not "canonical" English. From nb at bollow.ch Mon Jul 8 15:52:23 2019 From: nb at bollow.ch (Norbert Bollow) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 21:52:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <20190708215223.4c6fb63a@quill> On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 21:06:52 +0200 Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote: > And there are other expressions which are completely different in UK > English and US English - see > . > There are probably many more. > > So if you want to "unify" those two, which variant to choose? Or > better blend them into one - changing the spelling from one occurence > to the other? I'd be very surprised if *in Mailman's UI* there are any real causes for confusion due to the differences between different variants of English. I'm running some international mailing lists. On these lists, English is not used because it's a language used in the USA, or in any other particular country, but because it is generally the best choice of language for communicating internationally. On some of those lists, it is really strongly desirable to actively encourage the list's participants to see themselves as an international community, in particular as a community where US centric perspectives are not privileged over other perspectives. In such contexts, the reference to the English language in Mailman's Web UI as "English (USA)" is very irritating. I have sometimes modified Mailman to make it simply display "English" instead of "English (USA)". But I haven't ever gotten around to cleaning this up into a real patch as suggested by the OP. I would welcome such a patch. Greetings, Norbert From timothy.d at jasionow.ski Tue Jul 9 08:40:36 2019 From: timothy.d at jasionow.ski (Timothy Jasionowski) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 08:40:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <20190708215223.4c6fb63a@quill> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <20190708215223.4c6fb63a@quill> Message-ID: <0B4B4B5B-3A81-4730-B21A-09B9C2EABD73@jasionow.ski> I don?t really have a dog in this fight, but can we acknowledge that this version of Mailman is effectively on life support for a variety of reasons, that the limited developer support on it has been focused primarily on fixing critical bugs out of kindness rather than implementing any new features, and focus any internationalization efforts where they belong: in the actively developed Mailman 3? Timothy Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 8, 2019, at 15:52, Norbert Bollow wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 21:06:52 +0200 > Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote: > >> And there are other expressions which are completely different in UK >> English and US English - see >> . >> There are probably many more. >> >> So if you want to "unify" those two, which variant to choose? Or >> better blend them into one - changing the spelling from one occurence >> to the other? > > I'd be very surprised if *in Mailman's UI* there are any real causes > for confusion due to the differences between different variants of > English. > > I'm running some international mailing lists. On these lists, English > is not used because it's a language used in the USA, or in any other > particular country, but because it is generally the best choice of > language for communicating internationally. > > On some of those lists, it is really strongly desirable to actively > encourage the list's participants to see themselves as an international > community, in particular as a community where US centric perspectives > are not privileged over other perspectives. > > In such contexts, the reference to the English language in Mailman's > Web UI as "English (USA)" is very irritating. > > I have sometimes modified Mailman to make it simply display "English" > instead of "English (USA)". But I haven't ever gotten around to > cleaning this up into a real patch as suggested by the OP. > > I would welcome such a patch. > > Greetings, > Norbert > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/timothy.d%40jasionow.ski From jimpop at domainmail.org Tue Jul 9 09:20:39 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 09:20:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <0B4B4B5B-3A81-4730-B21A-09B9C2EABD73@jasionow.ski> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <20190708215223.4c6fb63a@quill> <0B4B4B5B-3A81-4730-B21A-09B9C2EABD73@jasionow.ski> Message-ID: <1562678439.1768.1.camel@domainmail.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Tue, 2019-07-09 at 08:40 -0400, Timothy Jasionowski wrote: > I don?t really have a dog in this fight, but can we acknowledge that > this version of Mailman is effectively on life support for a variety > of reasons, that the limited developer support on it has been focused > primarily on fixing critical bugs out of kindness rather than > implementing any new features, and focus any internationalization > efforts where they belong: in the actively developed Mailman 3? Why not fix both? I disagree with your "life support" statement, Mailman2 has a huge install base that just isn't going to fade away. Mailman3, as you correctly point out, still needs and has lots active development, something a lot of Mailman2 admins don't want to run in production, for a variety of reasons. Mailman2 is supported in Debian/Ubuntu releases for at least the next 5 years. - -Jim P. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl0klKgACgkQPcxbabkK GJ8mTxAAnR5TkcCIKNFP1zc5LGimgZYx9vOo25X7cheu72pwCSfCdEioSNrxb+Zs sWF8bRbjFLioOEZ7GipmSP4Ez7gl1jqyjJ39KcqIJNyTKcnPaUzsNx4cNcoF4pbG goep0kUSwQ3KmrE2Mn3xzJj+XZwJloamXjIvT4uHuw5sXugIa9/VmlO/rSntqGvq dy2O+DM55+9zc7vzPbEZ985EUvCh4ooPpjpVNsnDiMj2Jvyeu0ZCUVF4t2S2RupC rsHXimhjx5pScwisDdZLJWyqTZSAicFDyYB19Exg9w49n0ECDHi4Kh7g+T5Gttnu Vo9YvCVkip0lc+yvWJuPM8MPLH4Wi+72f4Gj1AmE3yrmx03A+7vpmD73hOCrxEkA +wQ6fhZQMHZ7ONq6Tw6bmWKgnViSuAvVlut/wuxConv/69ctcIcyR+J1TyRaDMnq 2dNzxqiRT3zRJ2ufRKb64W5p4xBFJjziA2XO83GSLgULdCyHJy+1vj200e3d02N4 FDD6UpKHN/XmYhsHpjuB28qU2oVBwPmppTNg5AOWLOj0UMKAFR3k47lgXJXjqXWt tpkqhCyrVYAuWXzHY70/Pryz+Xl66cxuIjjKwr7WyWEsH1QJr45CI1I7wbmrYHqu P6PGOThmhbuGJQpBRq5a9mdKRd9OB258qkI3xB18DLb6kUtKiGw= =kt4k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Tue Jul 9 13:00:53 2019 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 02:00:53 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] English (USA) In-Reply-To: <20190708215223.4c6fb63a@quill> References: <1562607360.8164.1.camel@domainmail.org> <20190708210652461938.b3ac8f24@yahoo.de> <20190708215223.4c6fb63a@quill> Message-ID: <23844.51269.777572.136060@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Norbert Bollow writes: > On some of those lists, it is really strongly desirable to actively > encourage the list's participants to see themselves as an > international community, in particular as a community where US > centric perspectives are not privileged over other perspectives. Claiming that labeling US dialect as such is US-centric seems backwards to me. As I argued earlier, labeling it as "English" looks like linguistic imperialism (setting up US English as "standard" English), whereas labeling it "English (USA)" is both truth in labeling and an acknowledgment that US English is no more than a dialect. That said, it's true that the only US-ism I see in the current message catalog is a half-dozen instances of -ize (vs. -ise), where -ize is correct for Americans but AFAIK British, Canadians, and Australians consider -ize quaint but acceptable. So if somebody wants to go to the trouble of being the "generic English" "translator" and make sure that the catalog avoids gratuitous[1] dialect-specific spelling and idioms, now and going forward, it shouldn't require too much effort. To give you an idea, it took me about 45 minutes to scan a Mailman 2 .po file. It would probably take about 75-90 minutes to be thorough the first time, and after that the "translator" would just look at diffs, which would take much less time. I'd support the change for Mailman 3 if we were confident that the message catalog is reasonably dialect-neutral and going to stay that way, and if somebody else does the work. This could be implemented either by keeping the source message strings "generic", or by having actual .po/.mo files for "English". The latter looks more convenient for the "translator". > But I haven't ever gotten around to cleaning this up into a real > patch as suggested by the OP. As Mark points out, this change constitutes an imposition on the translators (some of whom actively dislike having others make changes to "their" translations) and on any users whose translations don't get updated for some reason (eg, they've got local changes to their .po files). I would completely support Mark if he decides not to accept the change in Mailman 2. Steve Footnotes: [1] For example, use of "authorize" and "personalize" wouldn't be considered "gratuitous" because they're technical terms which are hard to avoid, and because that spelling is acceptable everywhere, although British, Canadian, and Australian readers probably prefer "-ise". From vgandhi at fdu.edu Tue Jul 16 08:24:10 2019 From: vgandhi at fdu.edu (Mr. Vishal Gandhi) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:24:10 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 Message-ID: We installed Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 using yum. We don't want mailing lists' email addresses with the same domain as the server has. For example: server is example1.fdu.edu . We would like to have email addresses of the mailing lists to end with @fdu.edu so that someone sends email to list1 at fdu.edu and the subscribers of the the mailing list list1 will receive it. Can some one please provide us some guidance on how can we accomplish this? We'll appreciate any help or guidance we may receive. Thank you. [cid:13406a9c-956f-451f-81fb-25a62f375a6c] Vishal K. Gandhi Systems Analyst/Application Developer/E-Mail Specialist University Systems and Networking 1000 River Road, Teaneck NJ 07666 Mail Stop: T-BH1-01 [phone]: 201-692-2414 | [fax] : 201-692-2494 | [email] : vgandhi at fdu.edu "Fairleigh Dickinson University will never ask for your password. Please do not share it with others!" From david at midrange.com Wed Jul 17 14:01:42 2019 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 14:01:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include part of message when rejecting due to excessive size? Message-ID: My memory is failing me... I thought that, when rejecting a message from the admin queue, part of the original message was included in the reject message. Is this true? When I reject messages, just the reject message is sent. If so, is there a setting that I need to adjust? If not, is there any way to do that? Thanks. David -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://mideml.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 17 15:15:21 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:15:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include part of message when rejecting due to excessive size? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7f32324a-09b7-77db-bc33-3060cfe6a7c6@msapiro.net> On 7/17/19 11:01 AM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote: > My memory is failing me... I thought that, when rejecting a message from > the admin queue, part of the original message was included in the reject > message. > > Is this true? No. The message that is sent is built from the 'refuse.txt' template. It includes the provided reason, but the only thing from the message is the Subject:. > When I reject messages, just the reject message is sent. > > If so, is there a setting that I need to adjust? > > If not, is there any way to do that? You could copy/paste parts of the message header and/or body into your reject reason. Anything else would require code modification. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 17 19:08:00 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18d56d03-92b6-0ae7-1661-646451d5c14e@msapiro.net> On 7/16/19 5:24 AM, Mr. Vishal Gandhi wrote: > We installed Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 using yum. We don't want mailing lists' email addresses with the same domain as the server has. For example: server is example1.fdu.edu . We would like to have email addresses of the mailing lists to end with @fdu.edu so that someone sends email to list1 at fdu.edu and the subscribers of the the mailing list list1 will receive it. Can some one please provide us some guidance on how can we accomplish this? > > We'll appreciate any help or guidance we may receive. First of all, the primary support resource for this package should be RedHat. See . That said, see What you want in mm_cfg.py is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'fdu.edu' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'fdu.edu' VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) The second line above, DEFAULT_URL_HOST should be set to whatever host name you want for accessing the web UI. Then, if you have existing lists, you need to run Mailman's bin/withlist -a -r fix_url to update those. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dandrews920 at comcast.net Wed Jul 17 19:23:58 2019 From: dandrews920 at comcast.net (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 18:23:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions About Uncaught Bounce Notifications Message-ID: <45ptkS4vFlzpCgB@mail.python.org> I run an installation that has over 300 lists. Normally, for years, I received around 300 uncaught bounce notifications a day. In the past couple of months, it has dramatically increased to 3000 to 4000 a day. Some questions: what causes them? Can they be reduced? Do they hurt anything? Toes the increase mean a problem somewhere else? Thanks! Dave From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 17 20:18:59 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:18:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions About Uncaught Bounce Notifications In-Reply-To: <45ptkS4vFlzpCgB@mail.python.org> References: <45ptkS4vFlzpCgB@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <07172954-c883-ed8e-3689-c957647190d2@msapiro.net> On 7/17/19 4:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > I run an installation that has over 300 lists.? Normally, for years, I > received around 300 uncaught bounce notifications a day.? In the past > couple of months, it has dramatically increased to 3000 to 4000 a day.? > Some questions:? what causes them? Can they be reduced? Do they hurt > anything? Toes the increase mean a problem somewhere else? Most likely (you can tell by looking at them) they are spam sent to the listname-bounces address. They might also be out of office type responses sent by non compliant (RFC 5230) vacation programs or replies to list mail erroneously sent to the envelope sender. What causes them is any message sent to a listname-bounces address that is not recognized as a delivery status notification by Mailman's bounce processing. At this point actual unrecognized DSNs are very rare, but if the message looks like a DSN and is unrecognized, you can post it here, and we will try to update the recognizers to recognize it. You can set a list's Bounce processing -> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner to No to eliminate the notices from that list, but then you will miss any real bounces which are unrecognized if there are any. The only harm is the extra mail to deal with. The increase is probably due to an increase in spam possibly due to various listname-bounces addresses getting on more spammers lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Richard at Damon-Family.org Wed Jul 17 20:50:48 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 20:50:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions About Uncaught Bounce Notifications In-Reply-To: <07172954-c883-ed8e-3689-c957647190d2@msapiro.net> References: <45ptkS4vFlzpCgB@mail.python.org> <07172954-c883-ed8e-3689-c957647190d2@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On 7/17/19 8:18 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/17/19 4:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> I run an installation that has over 300 lists.? Normally, for years, I >> received around 300 uncaught bounce notifications a day.? In the past >> couple of months, it has dramatically increased to 3000 to 4000 a day.? >> Some questions:? what causes them? Can they be reduced? Do they hurt >> anything? Toes the increase mean a problem somewhere else? > > Most likely (you can tell by looking at them) they are spam sent to the > listname-bounces address. They might also be out of office type > responses sent by non compliant (RFC 5230) vacation programs or replies > to list mail erroneously sent to the envelope sender. > > What causes them is any message sent to a listname-bounces address that > is not recognized as a delivery status notification by Mailman's bounce > processing. At this point actual unrecognized DSNs are very rare, but if > the message looks like a DSN and is unrecognized, you can post it here, > and we will try to update the recognizers to recognize it. > > You can set a list's Bounce processing -> > bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner to No to eliminate the notices > from that list, but then you will miss any real bounces which are > unrecognized if there are any. > > The only harm is the extra mail to deal with. > > The increase is probably due to an increase in spam possibly due to > various listname-bounces addresses getting on more spammers lists. > Here is a sample of one semi-regular bounce I get from a list I manage (I haved X'ed out the personal information included in the bounce). I suspect that one issue is that this is a bounce message, not a server refusing (thus they are probably back-scattering), and the bounce doesn't give the address that the message was sent to (though it is in the Delivered-To: header of the message that bounced that I trimmed). Also, being a 'I think your a spammer' as opposed to 'That address isn't valid' message says I am not sure one really wants to count it as a bounce. (pair.com/pairlist.net is my service provider, arlingtonlist.org is the domain for the mailing list, osiris.978.org is their domain) Return-Path: <> X-Original-To: arlington-bounces at lists6.arlingtonlist.org Delivered-To: arlington-bounces at six.pairlist.net Received: from arjuna.pair.com (arjuna.pair.com [209.68.5.131]) by six.pairlist.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07DAA5F67 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 08:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91008 invoked by uid 3409); 2 Jul 2019 12:30:16 -0000 Delivered-To: rdamon-arlingtonlist:org-arlington-bounces at arlingtonlist.org Received: (qmail 91002 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2019 12:30:16 -0000 Received: from mailwash50.pair.com (66.39.2.216) by arjuna.pair.com with ESMTPS (DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted); 2 Jul 2019 12:30:16 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailwash50.pair.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 710361322815 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 08:30:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Check-By: mailwash50.pair.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailwash50.pair.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 65CD31322778 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 08:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from osiris.978.org (osiris.978.org [98.110.203.122]) by mailwash50.pair.com (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 08:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28339 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2019 08:30:09 -0400 Date: 2 Jul 2019 08:30:09 -0400 Message-ID: <20190702123009.28338.qmail at osiris.978.org> From: MAILER-DAEMON at osiris.978.org To: Subject: failure notice In-Reply-To: References: Hi. This is the bounce program. I'm afraid I've been instructed to return your message. It was refused by the recipient's junk mail controls. To reach XXXXXXXXXXX, please telephone +1 888 XXXXXXX. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. -- Richard Damon From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 17 22:36:29 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 19:36:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions About Uncaught Bounce Notifications In-Reply-To: References: <45ptkS4vFlzpCgB@mail.python.org> <07172954-c883-ed8e-3689-c957647190d2@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On 7/17/19 5:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > Here is a sample of one semi-regular bounce I get from a list I manage > (I haved X'ed out the personal information included in the bounce). I > suspect that one issue is that this is a bounce message, not a server > refusing (thus they are probably back-scattering), and the bounce > doesn't give the address that the message was sent to (though it is in > the Delivered-To: header of the message that bounced that I trimmed). > > Also, being a 'I think your a spammer' as opposed to 'That address isn't > valid' message says I am not sure one really wants to count it as a bounce. Yes, that is tricky, but assuming we do, I have some questions. ... > Subject: failure notice > In-Reply-To: > References: These are Mailman generated Message-IDs indicating the message is some kind of Mailman generated notice and not a list post. Are they all like that or are some of them list posts? > Hi. This is the bounce program. I'm afraid I've been instructed to return > your message. It was refused by the recipient's junk mail controls. > > To reach XXXXXXXXXXX, please telephone +1 888 XXXXXXX. > > --- Below this line is a copy of the message. > I could recognize this in simplematch with a start regexp of ^.*This is the bounce program. I'm afraid I've been instructed and an address regexp of ^Delivered-To:\s*(?P[^\s@]+@[^\s@]+)\s*$') -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Richard at Damon-Family.org Thu Jul 18 06:30:53 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 06:30:53 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions About Uncaught Bounce Notifications In-Reply-To: References: <45ptkS4vFlzpCgB@mail.python.org> <07172954-c883-ed8e-3689-c957647190d2@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <33381fc7-3413-595d-3df3-748dc926130a@Damon-Family.org> On 7/17/19 10:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/17/19 5:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > >> Here is a sample of one semi-regular bounce I get from a list I manage >> (I haved X'ed out the personal information included in the bounce). I >> suspect that one issue is that this is a bounce message, not a server >> refusing (thus they are probably back-scattering), and the bounce >> doesn't give the address that the message was sent to (though it is in >> the Delivered-To: header of the message that bounced that I trimmed). >> >> Also, being a 'I think your a spammer' as opposed to 'That address isn't >> valid' message says I am not sure one really wants to count it as a bounce. > > Yes, that is tricky, but assuming we do, I have some questions. > > > ... >> Subject: failure notice >> In-Reply-To: >> References: > > These are Mailman generated Message-IDs indicating the message is some > kind of Mailman generated notice and not a list post. Are they all like > that or are some of them list posts? The user is subscribed to the digest, and that is what was seen as spam. Digests of course have mailman generated Message-IDs. > > >> Hi. This is the bounce program. I'm afraid I've been instructed to return >> your message. It was refused by the recipient's junk mail controls. >> >> To reach XXXXXXXXXXX, please telephone +1 888 XXXXXXX. >> >> --- Below this line is a copy of the message. >> > I could recognize this in simplematch > > with a start regexp of > > ^.*This is the bounce program. I'm afraid I've been instructed > > and an address regexp of > > ^Delivered-To:\s*(?P[^\s@]+@[^\s@]+)\s*$') > One issue is that this is a shared instance of mailman (mailman is installed on *.pairlist.net) so I can't get to any of the files to make a change to try this. -- Richard Damon From list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us Fri Jul 19 03:45:13 2019 From: list at ziobro.rochester.ny.us (Jim Ziobro) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 03:45:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance configuring Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <879d5937-cb3e-360c-3dbc-286d864cfbcb@ziobro.rochester.ny.us> On 7/16/2019 8:24 AM, Mr. Vishal Gandhi wrote: > We installed Mailman version 2.1.15 on RHEL7 using yum. We don't want mailing lists' email addresses with the same domain as the server has. For example: server is example1.fdu.edu . We would like to have email addresses of the mailing lists to end with @fdu.edu so that someone sends email tolist1 at fdu.edu and the subscribers of the the mailing list list1 will receive it. Can some one please provide us some guidance on how can we accomplish this? > > We'll appreciate any help or guidance we may receive. An important consideration is whether you want to let your Mailman system create an arbitrary mailing list.? For example would your mail admin allow the Mailman system create a list named: vgandhi at fdu.edu? The easiest solution is to create mailing lists in a separate name space (domain).? The common practice is to create lists under lists.fdu.edu.? Then Mm-handler is the easy solution.? You can ignore all the troubles with generating aliases files.? If your mail admin really wants the list to appear in fdu.edu they can add the aliases under fdu.edu.? Mm-handler is shown for sendmail but it will work in any mailer. My updates to mm-handler are on: http://sw.ziobro.info/mm-handler/ Ciao, //Z\\ Jim Ziobro From stevenjowens at gmail.com Fri Jul 19 21:13:37 2019 From: stevenjowens at gmail.com (Steven Owens) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 21:13:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to see the original email contents? Message-ID: Is there a way, in the mailman web admin interface, to see the original contents of an email that was posted to mailman? The received email is lacking a bunch of included text. It's unclear if this is user error, or some quirk of the email client or system (I believe yahoo email done via phone app), or if Mailman somehow automatically clipped it out. Content filtering is disabled for this list, i.e. if you go to the admin page and click on the "Content filtering" link, and scroll down to the setting "Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below?" it is set to "no". -- Steven J. Owens stevenjowens at gmail.com puff at darksleep.com 412-401-8060 From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jul 19 21:27:26 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 18:27:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to see the original email contents? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <764356c8-a4ef-fe39-b82c-dab8d2daf6f3@msapiro.net> On 7/19/19 6:13 PM, Steven Owens wrote: > Is there a way, in the mailman web admin interface, to see the > original contents of an email that was posted to mailman? No. > The received email is lacking a bunch of included text. It's unclear > if this is user error, or some quirk of the email client or system (I > believe yahoo email done via phone app), or if Mailman somehow > automatically clipped it out. If Content filtering is No, mailman should not have altered the content of the message unless Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest is Yes. If any Content filtering was done, there should be a X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.xx header in the received message. If scrub_nondigest is yes, any non text/plain parts of the message will be stored aside and replaced by notes with links to the content. Of your possibilities, Mailman is the least likely culprit, the combination of Yahoo and a phone is highly likely. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cpz at tuunq.com Fri Jul 19 21:20:36 2019 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 18:20:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to see the original email contents? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/19/2019 6:13 PM, Steven Owens wrote: > The received email is lacking a bunch of included text. It's unclear > if this is user error, or some quirk of the email client or system (I > believe yahoo email done via phone app), or if Mailman somehow > automatically clipped it out. I don't think mailman is capable of editing the message body in that way, my money would be on the yahoo mail app. (If nothing else, the SMTP log should show the size of the message sent to mailman. That might get you somewhere.) Later, z! From rkudyba at fordham.edu Mon Jul 22 14:12:21 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:12:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 Message-ID: Does mailman 2.1 now need to run as the same user as Apache runs? In our case httpd runs as the user ?apache? and mailman runs as ?mailman?. I reinstalled mailman and no difference. I?ve seen this error referenced several time and to run check_perms which I did. /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg bad group (has: root, expected mailman) Problems found: 1 Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 436 Feb 12 06:54 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg chown mailman:mailman /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms No problems found systemctl status mailman ? mailman.service - GNU Mailing List Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman.service; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (running) since Thu 2019-07-18 16:18:41 EDT; 3 days ago Main PID: 20380 (mailmanctl) Tasks: 9 (limit: 4915) Memory: 131.2M CGroup: /system.slice/mailman.service ??20380 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start ??20381 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s ??20382 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s ??20383 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s ??20384 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s ??20385 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s ??20386 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s ??20387 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s ??20388 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s Jul 18 16:18:41 dsm.dsm.fordham.edu systemd[1]: Starting GNU Mailing List Manager... Jul 18 16:18:41 dsm.dsm.fordham.edu mailmanctl[20379]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jul 18 16:18:41 dsm.dsm.fordham.edu systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailing List Manager. ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/book/ total 24 -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 5593 Jul 22 09:00 config.pck -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 5593 Jul 21 12:00 config.pck.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 131 Oct 12 2018 pending.pck -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 20 Oct 13 2018 request.pck ls -l /var/log/mailman/error -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 37997 Jul 22 10:57 /var/log/mailman/error [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] [----- Traceback ------] Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 85, in run_main immediate=1) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__ Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 50, in __init__ self.__get_f() File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 68, in __get_f 1) File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/codecs.py", line 898, in open file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/log/mailman/error' [----- Python Information -----] sys.version = 2.7.16 (default, Apr 30 2019, 15:54:43) [GCC 9.0.1 20190312 (Red Hat 9.0.1-0.10)] sys.executable = /usr/bin/python2 sys.prefix = /usr sys.exec_prefix = /usr sys.path = ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages'] sys.platform = linux2 PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman REMOTE_PORT: 60557 REQUEST_SCHEME: https SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo REQUEST_METHOD: GET SERVER_PORT: 443 SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 QUERY_STRING: REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html Then I provide 755 permissions to the log file then I see this error: admin(24082): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] admin(24082): [----- Traceback ------] admin(24082): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(24082): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main admin(24082): main() admin(24082): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 44, in main admin(24082): listinfo_overview() admin(24082): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 104, in listinfo_overview admin(24082): mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0) admin(24082): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 133, in __init__ admin(24082): self.Load() admin(24082): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 692, in Load admin(24082): dict, e = self.__load(file) admin(24082): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 655, in __load admin(24082): fp = open(dbfile) admin(24082): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/book/config.pck' admin(24082): [----- Python Information -----] admin(24082): sys.version = 2.7.16 (default, Apr 30 2019, 15:54:43) [GCC 9.0.1 20190312 (Red Hat 9.0.1-0.10)] admin(24082): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python2 admin(24082): sys.prefix = /usr From csa at web-analysts.net Tue Jul 23 13:29:22 2019 From: csa at web-analysts.net (Christian Stalberg) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:29:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding aliases Message-ID: <034101d5417c$2b310280$81930780$@web-analysts.net> Mailman is running fine in a postfix/mysql/dovecot environment. I need to set up email forwarding for root and postmaster. I added these to /etc/aliases and ran newaliases to no effect. Should I instead be manually editing the aliases file in the Mailman data directory then running /bin/genaliases ? please advise. Thank you. From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jul 23 15:18:43 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:18:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding aliases In-Reply-To: <034101d5417c$2b310280$81930780$@web-analysts.net> References: <034101d5417c$2b310280$81930780$@web-analysts.net> Message-ID: <95c50ed9-c464-19c1-acb4-50d428390515@msapiro.net> On 7/23/19 10:29 AM, Christian Stalberg via Mailman-Users wrote: > Mailman is running fine in a postfix/mysql/dovecot environment. I need to > set up email forwarding for root and postmaster. I added these to > /etc/aliases and ran newaliases to no effect. Should I instead be manually > editing the aliases file in the Mailman data directory then running > /bin/genaliases ? please advise. Thank you. This is a Postfix/Dovecot question. Presumably you are asking here because you have a mailman installation with a dedicated domain for mailing lists and you are wanting to forward the root and postmaster addresses for that domain. However, in order to be any help at all, assuming we can, we need to know: How is mail delivered to Mailman? If this is a Mailman package, whose? (and see )? What is the output of `postconf -n`? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Jul 23 15:42:31 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:42:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> On 7/22/19 11:12 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > Does mailman 2.1 now need to run as the same user as Apache runs? No. > In our case httpd runs as the user ?apache? and mailman runs as ?mailman?. I reinstalled mailman and no difference. I?ve seen this error referenced several time and to run check_perms which I did. > > /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms > /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg bad group (has: root, expected mailman) > Problems found: 1 > Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix > ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 436 Feb 12 06:54 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > chown mailman:mailman /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms > No problems found I don't know what bin/mailman-update-cfg is. It isn't distributed by the GNU Mailman project. It probably isn't the issue anyway. ... > ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/book/ > total 24 > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 5593 Jul 22 09:00 config.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 5593 Jul 21 12:00 config.pck.last > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 131 Oct 12 2018 pending.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 20 Oct 13 2018 request.pck > > ls -l /var/log/mailman/error > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 37997 Jul 22 10:57 /var/log/mailman/error These look OK. This is almost certainly an issue with the CGI wrappers or with SELinux. The wrappers in /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin and in /usr/lib/mailman/mail should all be group mailman and SETGID as in ls -la cgi-bin total 372 drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jun 21 15:04 ./ drwxrwsr-x 13 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 7 07:07 ../ -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 admin* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 admindb* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 confirm* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 create* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 edithtml* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 htdig* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 listinfo* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 mmsearch* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 options* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 private* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 rmlist* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 roster* -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 27296 Jun 21 15:04 subscribe* ls -la mail total 36 drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 Jun 21 15:04 ./ drwxrwsr-x 13 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 7 07:07 ../ -rwxr-sr-x 1 root mailman 28488 Jun 21 15:04 mailman* See , however, this is all probably OK because check_perms would complain if it weren't. Thus, this is almost certainly a SELinux issue. Try disabling SELinux. If that solves the issue and you want to enable SELinux, you'll need to review/update your SELinux Policy. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 09:20:22 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:20:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> Message-ID: > The wrappers in /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin and in /usr/lib/mailman/mail > should all be group mailman and SETGID as in Indeed they are with user set to mailman: ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ total 264 -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 admin -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 admindb -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 confirm -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 create -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 edithtml -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 listinfo -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 options -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 private -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 rmlist -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 roster -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23056 Feb 12 06:54 subscribe ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/mail total 24 -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23176 Feb 12 06:54 mailman ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/mail/ total 24 -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23176 Feb 12 06:54 mailman ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23176 Feb 12 06:54 /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman > > Thus, this is almost certainly a SELinux issue. Try disabling SELinux. > If that solves the issue and you want to enable SELinux, you'll need to > review/update your SELinux Policy. I should have mentioned it?s been disabled for quite a while: getenforce Disabled My partial workaround so far has been to: chmod 666 /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck chattr +i /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck Bu when trying to access ta mailing list we get the below permission errors. Note we do have mod_security and mod_evasive running but I don?t see any logs in them. Jul 24 09:00:03 2019 (6329) SHUNTING: 1563973203.350298+066f8e1903bdcdcd8f96222e2381a43c3d952002 Jul 24 09:00:05 2019 (6326) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted Jul 24 09:00:05 2019 (6326) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 133, in _dispose mlist.Save() File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 613, in Save self.__save(dict) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 590, in __save os.link(fname, fname_last) OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted admin(1480): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] admin(1480): [----- Traceback ------] admin(1480): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(1480): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main admin(1480): main() admin(1480): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 210, in main admin(1480): mlist.Lock() admin(1480): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 164, in Lock admin(1480): self.__lock.lock(timeout) admin(1480): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock admin(1480): self.__write() admin(1480): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write admin(1480): fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w') admin(1480): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lock/mailman/algs-da.lock.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.1480.0' Thanks for the reply! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 13:11:01 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:11:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On 7/24/19 6:20 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: >> >> Thus, this is almost certainly a SELinux issue. Try disabling SELinux. >> If that solves the issue and you want to enable SELinux, you'll need to >> review/update your SELinux Policy. > > I should have mentioned it?s been disabled for quite a while: > getenforce > Disabled > > My partial workaround so far has been to: > chmod 666 /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck > chattr +i /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck chattr +i is certainly wrong. From `man chattr` > A file with the `i' attribute cannot be modified: it cannot be deleted > or renamed, no link can be created to this file and no data can be > written to the file. Only the superuser or a process possessing the > CAP_LINUX_IMMUTABLE capability can set or clear this attribute. what does lsattr show for these files? On my system, everything has 'e' and a few of the qfiles/ subdirectories have 'I' and nothing else. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 13:21:46 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:21:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <24a9f406-0485-6506-f410-bc6fc8e4412d@msapiro.net> Another thing I neglected to mention, the file system containing the Mailman files must be mounted with the (default) suid option, not with nosuid. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 13:44:50 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:44:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> >> My partial workaround so far has been to: >> chmod 666 /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck >> chattr +i /var/lib/mailman/lists/*/config.pck > > > chattr +i is certainly wrong. From `man chattr` > > >> A file with the `i' attribute cannot be modified: it cannot be deleted >> or renamed, no link can be created to this file and no data can be >> written to the file. Only the superuser or a process possessing the >> CAP_LINUX_IMMUTABLE capability can set or clear this attribute. > > what does lsattr show for these files? Sorry I meant that I ran the chatter + I command as a work around; I made the files immutable as I believe some cron job keeps changing the permissions to the point we get the error: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.29 We're sorry, we hit a bug! So no when trying to log in to the ~/mailman/admindb/mailman admin page I get the below error, notice it?s a different permission problem: Jul 24 13:41:51 2019 admin(5113): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(5113): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] admin(5113): [----- Traceback ------] admin(5113): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main admin(5113): main() admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 345, in main admin(5113): mlist.Save() admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 613, in Save admin(5113): self.__save(dict) admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 590, in __save admin(5113): os.link(fname, fname_last) admin(5113): OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted admin(5113): [----- Python Information -----] admin(5113): sys.version = 2.7.16 (default, Apr 30 2019, 15:54:43) [GCC 9.0.1 20190312 (Red Hat 9.0.1-0.10)] admin(5113): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python2 admin(5113): sys.prefix = /usr admin(5113): sys.exec_prefix = /usr admin(5113): sys.path = ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages'] admin(5113): sys.platform = linux2 admin(5113): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(5113): CONTENT_LENGTH: 38 admin(5113): HTTPS: on admin(5113): HTTP_COOKIE: admin(5113): SERVER_NAME: admin(5113): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(5113): PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman admin(5113): REMOTE_ADDR: 150.108.68.30 admin(5113): REQUEST_SCHEME: https admin(5113): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb admin(5113): REQUEST_METHOD: POST admin(5113): SERVER_PORT: 443 admin(5113): HTTP_HOST: admin(5113): PATH_INFO: /mailman admin(5113): CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded admin(5113): REMOTE_PORT: 55467 admin(5113): QUERY_STRING: admin(5113): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/mailman admin(5113): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 14:04:12 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:04:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> Message-ID: <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> On 7/24/19 10:44 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > > > So no when trying to log in to the ~/mailman/admindb/mailman admin page I get the below error, notice it?s a different permission problem: > > Jul 24 13:41:51 2019 admin(5113): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > admin(5113): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] > admin(5113): [----- Traceback ------] > admin(5113): Traceback (most recent call last): > admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main > admin(5113): main() > admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 345, in main > admin(5113): mlist.Save() > admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 613, in Save > admin(5113): self.__save(dict) > admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 590, in __save > admin(5113): os.link(fname, fname_last) > admin(5113): OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted the admindb script is trying to save the list to do this, it first creates a temporary config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp file there hhh is the host name and ppp is the PID of the process and writes the data to that. It then unlinks (removes) config.pck.last, links config.pck to config.pck.last and finally renames config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp to config.pck. In your case it is the linking of config.pck to config.pck.last that is failing. All these files should be group 'mailman' and group writable and the process should be running with effective group 'mailman'. Did you see my reply about the file system needing to be mounted suid? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 14:28:46 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:28:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> Message-ID: > On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 7/24/19 10:44 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: >> >> >> So no when trying to log in to the ~/mailman/admindb/mailman admin page I get the below error, notice it?s a different permission problem: >> >> Jul 24 13:41:51 2019 admin(5113): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >> admin(5113): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] >> admin(5113): [----- Traceback ------] >> admin(5113): Traceback (most recent call last): >> admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main >> admin(5113): main() >> admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 345, in main >> admin(5113): mlist.Save() >> admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 613, in Save >> admin(5113): self.__save(dict) >> admin(5113): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 590, in __save >> admin(5113): os.link(fname, fname_last) >> admin(5113): OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted > > the admindb script is trying to save the list to do this, it first > creates a temporary config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp file there hhh is the host > name and ppp is the PID of the process and writes the data to that. It > then unlinks (removes) config.pck.last, links config.pck to > config.pck.last and finally renames config.pck.tmp.hhh.ppp to config.pck. > > In your case it is the linking of config.pck to config.pck.last that is > failing. > > All these files should be group 'mailman' and group writable and the > process should be running with effective group 'mailman?. By ?these files? do you mean in /usr/lib/mailman? Those definitely did not have group write permissions. Do these files also need suid? > Did you see my reply about the file system needing to be mounted suid? Yes I did an responded in line with the permissions of the sub-directories and files: ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ total 264 -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 admin -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 admindb -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 confirm -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 create -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 edithtml -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 listinfo -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 options -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 private -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 rmlist -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 roster -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23056 Feb 12 06:54 subscribe ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/mail total 24 -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23176 Feb 12 06:54 mailman ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/mail/ total 24 -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23176 Feb 12 06:54 mailman ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23176 Feb 12 06:54 /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 14:54:06 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:54:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> On 7/24/19 11:28 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > >> >> All these files should be group 'mailman' and group writable and the >> process should be running with effective group 'mailman?. > > By ?these files? do you mean in /usr/lib/mailman? Those definitely did not have group write permissions. Do these files also need suid? I mean the ones which I think in your case are in /var/lib/mailman. Those are the ones that need to be writable by the 'mailman' group. The ones in /usr/lib/mailman only need to be readable. >> Did you see my reply about the file system needing to be mounted suid? > > Yes I did an responded in line with the permissions of the sub-directories and files: > ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ > total 264 > -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 admin ... I'm not talking about the SETGID bit on the file mode. I'm talking about the `mount` command that mounts the file system that contains /usr/lib/mailman. look in /etc/fstab. The options field should not have 'nosuid'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 15:14:38 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:14:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> Message-ID: > >>> Did you see my reply about the file system needing to be mounted suid? >> >> Yes I did an responded in line with the permissions of the sub-directories and files: >> ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ >> total 264 >> -rwxr-sr-x 1 mailman mailman 23048 Feb 12 06:54 admin > ... > > > I'm not talking about the SETGID bit on the file mode. I'm talking about > the `mount` command that mounts the file system that contains > /usr/lib/mailman. look in /etc/fstab. The options field should not have > 'nosuid?. /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-root / xfs defaults 0 0 UUID=d526e70e-89b1-4029-bfb1-db2e50d622fe /boot ext4 defaults 1 2 /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-home /home xfs defaults 0 0 /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-var /var xfs defaults 0 0 /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-swap swap swap defaults 0 0 This did work a few weeks ago not sure when it started perhaps when dnf updated June 30. And now qrunner is failing to start: Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Qrunner RetryRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 14438, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. systemctl start mailman [root at dsm ~]# systemctl status mailman ? mailman.service - GNU Mailing List Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman.service; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: inactive (dead) since Wed 2019-07-24 15:12:09 EDT; 7s ago Process: 20102 ExecStartPre= (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20103 ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -m644 -o mailman -g mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in /etc/cron.d/mailman (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20104 ExecStartPre=/bin/touch /var/log/mailman/error (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20105 ExecStartPre=/bin/chown mailman:mailman /var/log/mailman/error (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20106 ExecStartPre=/bin/chmod 666 /var/log/mailman/error (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20107 ExecStart=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20201 ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20202 ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 20203 ExecStop=/bin/sh -c echo -e "# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE! # # Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman # Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in" > /etc/cron.d/mailman (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Main PID: 20112 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Jul 24 15:12:08 ourdomain systemd[1]: Starting GNU Mailing List Manager... Jul 24 15:12:08 ourdomain mailmanctl[20107]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jul 24 15:12:08 ourdomain systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailing List Manager. Jul 24 15:12:09 ourdomain mailmanctl[20202]: No child with pid: 20112 Jul 24 15:12:09 ourdomain mailmanctl[20202]: [Errno 3] No such process Jul 24 15:12:09 ourdomain mailmanctl[20202]: Stale pid file removed. Jul 24 15:12:09 ourdomain mailmanctl[20202]: Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner Jul 24 15:12:09 ourdomain systemd[1]: mailman.service: Succeeded. Also you mentioned you didn?t know what this file was: cat /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg #!/usr/bin/python2 # This script is needed, when SELinux is enabled: # mailman_mail_t context cannot write to the directory # /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman so when you change mm_cfg.py, # mailman cannot create the .pyc # # This script is called in the init script, which is run in unconfined_t # so the .pyc is created and the AVC denial is avoided. (bz#481446) import py_compile py_compile.compile("/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py") From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 15:28:30 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:28:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> On 7/24/19 12:14 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > > This did work a few weeks ago not sure when it started perhaps when dnf updated June 30. > > And now qrunner is failing to start: > Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Qrunner RetryRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. > Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit > (pid: 14438, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] > Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. There should be messages in Mailman's error and qrunner logs about this, but the qrunners should be running as user:group mailman:mailman so none of the setgid stuff should affect that. I don't think I can be of further help here. mailmanctl should be ensuring that the qrunners are running as user:group mailman:mailman and the setgid bits (if honored) should ensure that the CGIs and mail delivery are all running as group mailman and the mailman group should have permission to read (and where necessary, write) these files. I do not know why this isn't working in your case. Perhaps you should ask RedHat. > Also you mentioned you didn?t know what this file was: > cat /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > #!/usr/bin/python2 > > # This script is needed, when SELinux is enabled: > # mailman_mail_t context cannot write to the directory > # /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman so when you change mm_cfg.py, > # mailman cannot create the .pyc > # > # This script is called in the init script, which is run in unconfined_t > # so the .pyc is created and the AVC denial is avoided. (bz#481446) > > import py_compile > > py_compile.compile("/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py") So it is part of the RedHat package. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 15:39:15 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:39:15 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <214ACA26-2B37-4D5D-8B85-8D4B738D0C86@fordham.edu> >> >> This did work a few weeks ago not sure when it started perhaps when dnf updated June 30. >> >> And now qrunner is failing to start: >> Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Qrunner RetryRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. >> Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit >> (pid: 14438, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] >> Jul 24 14:36:50 2019 (14350) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. > > > There should be messages in Mailman's error and qrunner logs about this, > but the qrunners should be running as user:group mailman:mailman so none > of the setgid stuff should affect that. Yes bottom of /var/log/mailman/qrunner: Jul 24 15:32:36 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23416, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:36 2019 (23332) Qrunner ArchRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23415, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23413, sig: None, sts: 1, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner NewsRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23414, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23417, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner OutgoingRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23418, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner CommandRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23419, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner VirginRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 23420, sig: None, sts: 1, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 (23332) Qrunner RetryRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting. And /var/log/mailman/error: Jul 24 15:30:38 2019 mailmanctl(23038): [Errno 3] No such process Jul 24 15:30:38 2019 mailmanctl(23038): Stale pid file removed. Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 mailmanctl(23422): No child with pid: 23332 Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 mailmanctl(23422): [Errno 3] No such process Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 mailmanctl(23422): Stale pid file removed. It?s as if mailman is trying to stop a process that does not exist. I see some very old threads that you?ve replied to for this like: https://grokbase.com/t/python/mailman-users/0722q1bmpb/mail-stuck-in-qfiles-in /var/log/httpd/ssl_error_log: [Wed Jul 24 15:36:38.985638 2019] [ssl:info] [pid 13742:tid 139746600797952] [client 150.108.68.30:56795] AH01964: Connection to child 208 established (server ourserver:443) [Wed Jul 24 15:36:38.985818 2019] [ssl:info] [pid 13742:tid 139746483365632] [client 150.108.68.30:56796] AH01964: Connection to child 212 established (server ourserver:443) [Wed Jul 24 15:36:39.027877 2019] [core:error] [pid 13742:tid 139746600797952] (104)Connection reset by peer: [client myipaddress:56795] AH00574: ap_content_length_filter: apr_bucket_read() failed, referer: https://ourdomain/mailman/admindb/mailman From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 15:48:00 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:48:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> OK a new error. Could this be a python version issue? https://mailman-users.python.narkive.com/UxwiPAK0/installation-problem ImportError: No module named Logging.StampedLogger [----- Python Information -----] sys.version = 2.7.16 (default, Apr 30 2019, 15:54:43) [GCC 9.0.1 20190312 (Red Hat 9.0.1-0.10)] sys.executable = /usr/bin/python2 sys.prefix = /usr sys.exec_prefix = /usr sys.path = ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages'] sys.platform = linux2 [----- Environment Variables -----] SERVER_NAME: ourdomain HTTPS: on HTTP_COOKIE: _gcl_au=1.1.1550343875.1556727714; _ga=GA1.2.1132552280.1556727715; _fbp=fb.1.1556727714883.1881292469; __utmz=239634460.1558015295.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none); __utma=239634460.1132552280.1556727715.1560871178.1561057020.5; _gid=GA1.2.2016421306.1563974108 REMOTE_ADDR: 150.108.68.30 PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman REMOTE_PORT: 56911 REQUEST_SCHEME: https SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo REQUEST_METHOD: GET HTTP_HOST: www.dsm.fordham.edu SERVER_PORT: 443 SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 QUERY_STRING: REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html From rkudyba at fordham.edu Wed Jul 24 16:59:29 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:59:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> Message-ID: <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> I?m getting some where here. First Apache httpd runs as user:apache: ps -auwx|grep httpd apache 4765 0.0 0.0 48708 23972 ? S 16:46 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DFOREGROUND apache 4766 0.0 0.0 2548332 31472 ? Sl 16:46 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DFOREGROUND apache 4768 0.0 0.0 2351528 31868 ? Sl 16:46 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DFOREGROUND apache 4775 0.0 0.0 2351528 32504 ? Sl 16:46 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DFOREGROUND apache 5003 0.0 0.0 2351528 32304 ? Sl 16:46 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DFOREGROUND ps -auwx |grep mailman mailman 5956 0.0 0.0 267152 38892 ? Ss 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start mailman 5957 0.0 0.0 236672 20100 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5958 0.0 0.0 236676 19732 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5959 0.0 0.0 236584 20076 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5960 0.0 0.0 236588 20044 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5961 0.0 0.0 236688 20048 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5962 0.0 0.0 236548 19992 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5963 0.0 0.0 236548 20112 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s mailman 5964 0.0 0.0 236584 20116 ? S 16:51 0:00 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s systemctl status mailman ? mailman.service - GNU Mailing List Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman.service; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (running) since Wed 2019-07-24 16:51:51 EDT; 6min ago Process: 5948 ExecStartPre=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 5951 ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -m644 -o mailman -g mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in /etc/cron.d/mailman (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 5952 ExecStartPre=/bin/touch /var/log/mailman/error (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 5953 ExecStartPre=/bin/chown mailman:mailman /var/log/mailman/error (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 5954 ExecStartPre=/bin/chmod 666 /var/log/mailman/error (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Process: 5955 ExecStart=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Main PID: 5956 (mailmanctl) Tasks: 9 (limit: 4915) Memory: 128.6M CGroup: /system.slice/mailman.service ??5956 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start ??5957 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s ??5958 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s ??5959 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s ??5960 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s ??5961 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s ??5962 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s ??5963 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s ??5964 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s Jul 24 16:51:51 our domain systemd[1]: Starting GNU Mailing List Manager... Jul 24 16:51:51 our domain mailmanctl[5955]: Starting Mailman's master qrunner. Jul 24 16:51:51 our domain systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailing List Manager. Now I see these files, and look at the owner: ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/ total 184 -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 4352 Jul 24 16:55 config.pck -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 4352 Jul 24 16:55 config.pck.last -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 22949 Jul 24 16:54 request.pck -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:51 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5850 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:47 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5342 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:46 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5002 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:38 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.3609 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:34 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.2986 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:32 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.2727 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 13:41 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5113 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:58 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22328 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:40 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.19790 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:29 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.13505 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:25 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.15335 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:23 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.14826 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:23 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.14771 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 10:03 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22176 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 10:01 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22179 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 3122 Jul 24 10:01 pending.pck -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 09:00 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.6326 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 09:00 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.6329 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 2438 Jul 23 08:51 digest.mbox Whenever I am in the admin page the 1st 3 files get changed to user:apache. Is there perhaps something in the .service file that I need to change? cat /usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman.service [Unit] Description=GNU Mailing List Manager After=syslog.target network.target [Service] ExecStartPre=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -m644 -o mailman -g mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in /etc/cron.d/mailman ExecStartPre=/bin/touch /var/log/mailman/error ExecStartPre=/bin/chown mailman:mailman /var/log/mailman/error ExecStartPre=/bin/chmod 666 /var/log/mailman/error ExecStart=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start ExecReload=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop ExecStop=/bin/sh -c 'echo -e "# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!\n#\n# Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman\n# Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in" > /etc/cron.d/mailman' Type=forking [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target Does the user NEED to be the same as who Apache runs as? From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 17:27:07 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:27:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> Message-ID: On 7/24/19 12:48 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > OK a new error. Could this be a python version issue? https://mailman-users.python.narkive.com/UxwiPAK0/installation-problem This is not a python issue. Logging.StampedLogger is a Mailman module, it should be /usr/lib/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py. This may be another manifestation of your permissions issues. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 17:27:12 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <214ACA26-2B37-4D5D-8B85-8D4B738D0C86@fordham.edu> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <214ACA26-2B37-4D5D-8B85-8D4B738D0C86@fordham.edu> Message-ID: On 7/24/19 12:39 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > > And /var/log/mailman/error: > Jul 24 15:30:38 2019 mailmanctl(23038): [Errno 3] No such process > Jul 24 15:30:38 2019 mailmanctl(23038): Stale pid file removed. > Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 mailmanctl(23422): No child with pid: 23332 > Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 mailmanctl(23422): [Errno 3] No such process > Jul 24 15:32:37 2019 mailmanctl(23422): Stale pid file removed. > > It?s as if mailman is trying to stop a process that does not exist. Those are probably irrelevant in your case. The interesting stuff about the qrunner failures isn't there, probably because of permission issues. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Wed Jul 24 17:27:14 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:27:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> Message-ID: On 7/24/19 1:59 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > I?m getting some where here. First Apache httpd runs as user:apache: Right. > Now I see these files, and look at the owner: > ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/ > total 184 > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 4352 Jul 24 16:55 config.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 4352 Jul 24 16:55 config.pck.last > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 22949 Jul 24 16:54 request.pck > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:51 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5850 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:47 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5342 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:46 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5002 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:38 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.3609 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:34 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.2986 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:32 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.2727 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 13:41 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5113 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:58 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22328 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:40 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.19790 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:29 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.13505 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:25 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.15335 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:23 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.14826 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:23 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.14771 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 10:03 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22176 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 10:01 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22179 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 3122 Jul 24 10:01 pending.pck > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 09:00 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.6326 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 09:00 config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.6329 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 2438 Jul 23 08:51 digest.mbox > > Whenever I am in the admin page the 1st 3 files get changed to user:apache. This is all as it should be. Note that all the config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.pppp files are left from when the linking of config.pck to config.pck.last failed as described at . They can be removed. The owner of these files doesn't matter. It is the mailman group that matters. When apache saves a list, it is running as user:group apache:mailman. This is how the files get created. It is the mailman group and its permissions that allow this. When a qrunner saves a list it is running as mailman:mailman and the created files have that user:group. When a web CGI saves a list it is running as apache:mailman and the created files have that user:group. This is all expected and it is the group permissions that allow the operations. > Is there perhaps something in the .service file that I need to change? > cat /usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman.service > [Unit] > Description=GNU Mailing List Manager > After=syslog.target network.target > > [Service] > ExecStartPre=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg Ask RedHat about this one. > ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -m644 -o mailman -g mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in /etc/cron.d/mailman This is also a RedHat thing. > ExecStartPre=/bin/touch /var/log/mailman/error > ExecStartPre=/bin/chown mailman:mailman /var/log/mailman/error > ExecStartPre=/bin/chmod 666 /var/log/mailman/error The above should not be necessary at all. > ExecStart=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start > ExecReload=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart > ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop > ExecStop=/bin/sh -c 'echo -e "# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!\n#\n# Contents of this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman\n# Master copy is /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in" > /etc/cron.d/mailman' > Type=forking > > [Install] > WantedBy=multi-user.target > > Does the user NEED to be the same as who Apache runs as? No. the group has to be mailman. the user is irrelevant. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Thu Jul 25 10:50:59 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 10:50:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> Message-ID: OK almost there. I can get into the admin however for each list, I am still getting permission errors. Here are the current perms: ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr total 32 -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 9250 Jul 23 14:15 config.pck -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 9250 Jul 23 09:00 config.pck.last -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 130 Mar 31 2016 pending.pck -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 20 Apr 1 2016 request.pck ls -ld /var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 85 Jul 23 14:15 /var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr ls -ld /var/lib/mailman/lists/ drwxrwsr-x 25 mailman mailman 4096 Feb 12 06:53 /var/lib/mailman/lists/ ls -ld /var/lib/mailman/ drwxrwsr-x 6 root mailman 59 Feb 12 06:53 /var/lib/mailman/ So the below tmp file cannot write into the directory. Jul 25 10:45:29 2019 (10878) Failed config.pck write, retaining old state. [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr/config.pck.tmp.ourdomain.edu.10878' Jul 25 10:45:29 2019 admin(10878): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(10878): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] admin(10878): [----- Traceback ------] admin(10878): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in run_main admin(10878): main() admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 250, in main admin(10878): mlist.Save() admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 613, in Save admin(10878): self.__save(dict) admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 568, in __save admin(10878): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') admin(10878): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr/config.pck.tmp.ourdomain.edu.10878' admin(10878): [----- Python Information -----] admin(10878): sys.version = 2.7.16 (default, Apr 30 2019, 15:54:43) [GCC 9.0.1 20190312 (Red Hat 9.0.1-0.10)] admin(10878): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python2 admin(10878): sys.prefix = /usr admin(10878): sys.exec_prefix = /usr admin(10878): sys.path = ['/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/mailman/scripts', '/usr/lib/mailman', '/usr/lib/python27.zip', '/usr/lib64/python2.7', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-tk', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-old', '/usr/lib64/python2.7/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages'] admin(10878): sys.platform = linux2 admin(10878): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(10878): CONTENT_LENGTH: 38 admin(10878): HTTPS: on admin(10878): HTTP_COOKIE: admin(10878): SERVER_NAME: ourdomain.edu admin(10878): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(10878): PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman admin(10878): REMOTE_ADDR: myip admin(10878): REQUEST_SCHEME: https admin(10878): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin admin(10878): REQUEST_METHOD: POST admin(10878): SERVER_PORT: 443 admin(10878): HTTP_HOST: ourdomain.edu admin(10878): PATH_INFO: /datastr admin(10878): CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded admin(10878): REMOTE_PORT: 53063 admin(10878): QUERY_STRING: admin(10878): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/datastr admin(10878): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html Isn't this similar to my other issue? I believe the user "apache" needs to write that tmp file? On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:29 PM Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/24/19 1:59 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > > I?m getting some where here. First Apache httpd runs as user:apache: > > > Right. > > > > > Now I see these files, and look at the owner: > > ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/ > > total 184 > > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 4352 Jul 24 16:55 config.pck > > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 4352 Jul 24 16:55 config.pck.last > > -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 22949 Jul 24 16:54 request.pck > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:51 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5850 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:47 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5342 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:46 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5002 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:38 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.3609 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:34 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.2986 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 16:32 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.2727 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 13:41 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.5113 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:58 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22328 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:40 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.19790 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:29 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.13505 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:25 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.15335 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:23 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.14826 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 11:23 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.14771 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 10:03 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22176 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 10:01 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.22179 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 3122 Jul 24 10:01 pending.pck > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 09:00 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.6326 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 4350 Jul 24 09:00 > config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.6329 > > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 2438 Jul 23 08:51 digest.mbox > > > > Whenever I am in the admin page the 1st 3 files get changed to > user:apache. > > > This is all as it should be. > > Note that all the config.pck.tmp.dsm.dsm.fordham.edu.pppp files are left > from when the linking of config.pck to config.pck.last failed as > described at > < > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.python.org_pipermail_mailman-2Dusers_2019-2DJuly_084590.html&d=DwIGaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=X0jL9y0sL4r4iU_qVtR3lLNo4tOL1ry_m7-psV3GejY&m=JvRbH7r1X3n_UdN-IMTBhvNQDRPRJROtIHc74SwT2Jo&s=YN5-7P2QO-rJTSkNK0pyd-OoThRTFjU62JO756bVJo8&e= > >. > They can be removed. > > The owner of these files doesn't matter. It is the mailman group that > matters. When apache saves a list, it is running as user:group > apache:mailman. This is how the files get created. It is the mailman > group and its permissions that allow this. When a qrunner saves a list > it is running as mailman:mailman and the created files have that > user:group. When a web CGI saves a list it is running as apache:mailman > and the created files have that user:group. > > This is all expected and it is the group permissions that allow the > operations. > > > > Is there perhaps something in the .service file that I need to change? > > cat /usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman.service > > [Unit] > > Description=GNU Mailing List Manager > > After=syslog.target network.target > > > > [Service] > > ExecStartPre=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > > Ask RedHat about this one. > > > > ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -m644 -o mailman -g mailman > /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in /etc/cron.d/mailman > > This is also a RedHat thing. > > > > ExecStartPre=/bin/touch /var/log/mailman/error > > ExecStartPre=/bin/chown mailman:mailman /var/log/mailman/error > > ExecStartPre=/bin/chmod 666 /var/log/mailman/error > > The above should not be necessary at all. > > > ExecStart=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start > > ExecReload=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart > > ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailman-update-cfg > > ExecStop=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop > > ExecStop=/bin/sh -c 'echo -e "# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!\n#\n# Contents of > this file managed by /etc/init.d/mailman\n# Master copy is > /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in" > /etc/cron.d/mailman' > > Type=forking > > > > [Install] > > WantedBy=multi-user.target > > > > Does the user NEED to be the same as who Apache runs as? > > > No. the group has to be mailman. the user is irrelevant. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.python.org_mailman_listinfo_mailman-2Dusers&d=DwIGaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=X0jL9y0sL4r4iU_qVtR3lLNo4tOL1ry_m7-psV3GejY&m=JvRbH7r1X3n_UdN-IMTBhvNQDRPRJROtIHc74SwT2Jo&s=1zwOlne7LsMUz3UiVKxB9NeBsI1pEV9eUuxQQ5L0_zY&e= > Mailman FAQ: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wiki.list.org_x_AgA3&d=DwIGaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=X0jL9y0sL4r4iU_qVtR3lLNo4tOL1ry_m7-psV3GejY&m=JvRbH7r1X3n_UdN-IMTBhvNQDRPRJROtIHc74SwT2Jo&s=pZjNHSUfy8LUmXE8tsm1kwXiYl7XqqwkkRzzV4LQeJE&e= > Security Policy: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wiki.list.org_x_QIA9&d=DwIGaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=X0jL9y0sL4r4iU_qVtR3lLNo4tOL1ry_m7-psV3GejY&m=JvRbH7r1X3n_UdN-IMTBhvNQDRPRJROtIHc74SwT2Jo&s=5kXYMZmAVrdvkYduBzBykS8wgAYbQpwmNbO1WIqdPak&e= > Searchable Archives: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.mail-2Darchive.com_mailman-2Dusers-2540python.org_&d=DwIGaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=X0jL9y0sL4r4iU_qVtR3lLNo4tOL1ry_m7-psV3GejY&m=JvRbH7r1X3n_UdN-IMTBhvNQDRPRJROtIHc74SwT2Jo&s=t1mMHU9K2bHneljt0LaxcPYD2UshKR8zxauH511Zn78&e= > Unsubscribe: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.python.org_mailman_options_mailman-2Dusers_rkudyba-2540fordham.edu&d=DwIGaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=X0jL9y0sL4r4iU_qVtR3lLNo4tOL1ry_m7-psV3GejY&m=JvRbH7r1X3n_UdN-IMTBhvNQDRPRJROtIHc74SwT2Jo&s=xFUyyFlbQpESSDnVfWydAz2MwxF6-2c4QMEFV0UyhYo&e= > From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jul 25 14:00:20 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:00:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> Message-ID: On 7/25/19 7:50 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > OK almost there. I can get into the admin however for each list, I am still > getting permission errors. > > Here are the current perms: > ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr > total 32 > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 9250 Jul 23 14:15 config.pck> -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 9250 Jul 23 09:00 config.pck.last > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 130 Mar 31 2016 pending.pck > -rw-rw-rw- 1 mailman mailman 20 Apr 1 2016 request.pck The 'other' permissions above should not be needed. > ls -ld /var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr > drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 85 Jul 23 14:15 /var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr If you make this directory o+w it will solve your problem, but that is the wrong solution. > So the below tmp file cannot write into the directory. > > Jul 25 10:45:29 2019 (10878) Failed config.pck write, retaining old state. > [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr/config.pck.tmp.ourdomain.edu.10878' > Jul 25 10:45:29 2019 admin(10878): > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > admin(10878): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.29 -----] > admin(10878): [----- Traceback ------] > admin(10878): Traceback (most recent call last): > admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 117, in > run_main > admin(10878): main() > admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 250, in > main > admin(10878): mlist.Save() > admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 613, in > Save > admin(10878): self.__save(dict) > admin(10878): File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 568, in > __save > admin(10878): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') > admin(10878): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/datastr/config.pck.tmp.ourdomain.edu.10878' ... > Isn't this similar to my other issue? I believe the user "apache" needs to > write that tmp file? All your issues point to the same thing. The SETGID bit on the /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/ wrappers is not being honored and the CGI processes are not running as effective group 'mailman'. To see the effective group that the CGIs run as, apply the attached patch to /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver. This will print the effective group of the process between the Traceback and the Python Information. It should be 'mailman', but I think in your case it won't be. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- --- ../../2.1/scripts/driver 2018-04-13 09:24:59.491372477 -0700 +++ driver 2019-07-25 10:52:45.729379682 -0700 @@ -20,6 +20,7 @@ # This better succeed. If this fails, Python is royally screwed so we might # as well let the Web server give us a fatal and obtrusive error. import os +import grp import sys # From here on we are as bulletproof as possible! @@ -196,6 +197,8 @@ except ImportError: os = None + # Write effective GROUP + print >> logfp, 'Process effective group =', grp.getgrgid(os.getegid())[0] # Write some information about our Python executable to the log file. print >> logfp, '[----- Python Information -----]' print >> logfp, 'sys.version =', sys.version @@ -207,6 +210,8 @@ # Write the same information to the HTML sink. if not STEALTH_MODE: + print '

Process effective group =', grp.getgrgid(os.getegid())[0] + print '

' print '''\

Python information:

From rkudyba at fordham.edu Thu Jul 25 14:34:06 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:34:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> Message-ID: > > To see the effective group that the CGIs run as, apply the attached > patch to /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver. This will print the effective > group of the process between the Traceback and the Python Information. > It should be 'mailman', but I think in your case it won't be. > Indeed you are correct: admin(15157): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/algs-da/config.pck' admin(15157): Process effective group = apache Where do I change this? From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jul 25 15:15:03 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 12:15:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> Message-ID: <07890686-8d33-0e7d-014a-e50bda33d95f@msapiro.net> On 7/25/19 11:34 AM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > > Indeed you are correct: > > admin(15157): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: > '/var/lib/mailman/lists/algs-da/config.pck' > admin(15157): Process effective group = apache > > Where do I change this? As far as I can see, everything you have is as it should be. I.e., the wrappers are group 'mailman' and SETGID and the file system is mounted without 'nosuid'. Also, manipulating ownership and permissions of config.pck files is not a solution. Because of the way they are updated, changed permissions will be reversed. This is a Fedora issue of some kind. You will have to contact Fedora. The only other thing I can suggest is you have the following in /etc/fstab: > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-root / xfs defaults 0 0 > UUID=d526e70e-89b1-4029-bfb1-db2e50d622fe /boot ext4 defaults 1 2 > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-home /home xfs defaults 0 0 > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-var /var xfs defaults 0 0 > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-swap swap swap defaults 0 0 It's a stretch, but you might try changing 'defaults' to 'defaults,suid' at least on / and /var in case Fedora changed the default to nosuid. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rkudyba at fordham.edu Thu Jul 25 15:30:10 2019 From: rkudyba at fordham.edu (Robert Kudyba) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:30:10 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: <07890686-8d33-0e7d-014a-e50bda33d95f@msapiro.net> References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> <07890686-8d33-0e7d-014a-e50bda33d95f@msapiro.net> Message-ID: > > Also, manipulating ownership and permissions of config.pck files is not > a solution. Because of the way they are updated, changed permissions > will be reversed. > Yes I'm seeing that. This is a Fedora issue of some kind. You will have to contact Fedora. > I'll open a bug up at the Bugzilla and reference this thread. I'm surprised noone else has brought this up. The only other thing I can suggest is you have the following in /etc/fstab: > > > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-root / xfs defaults > 0 0 > > UUID=d526e70e-89b1-4029-bfb1-db2e50d622fe /boot ext4 > defaults 1 2 > > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-home /home xfs defaults > 0 0 > > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-var /var xfs defaults > 0 0 > > /dev/mapper/fedora_newdsm-swap swap swap defaults > 0 0 > > It's a stretch, but you might try changing 'defaults' to 'defaults,suid' > at least on / and /var in case Fedora changed the default to nosuid. > I did that, ran mount -a, restarted httpd and mailman, no difference. Have you seen the suggestion to use Apache with suexec at https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Apache+Suexec ? My first attempt was unsuccessful, I kept getting: Apache-Error: [file "util_script.c"] [line 497] [level 3] End of script output before headers: listinfo Apache-Handler: cgi-script Perhaps that's too old, 2010? From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu Thu Jul 25 15:37:01 2019 From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dimitri Maziuk) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:37:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> <07890686-8d33-0e7d-014a-e50bda33d95f@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <1705e561-476a-e6b9-379c-d7ebbd31eea2@bmrb.wisc.edu> On 7/25/19 2:30 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > Have you seen the suggestion to use Apache with suexec at > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Apache+Suexec ? My first attempt was > unsuccessful FWIW I could never get suexec to work reliably. Repartition the drive properly (get rid of LVM), use ext4, mount with "suid", disable selinux, and generally: upgrade your system to centos 6 or alpine if you need the latest kernel. -- Dimitri Maziuk Programmer/sysadmin BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mark at msapiro.net Thu Jul 25 16:25:02 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 13:25:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied on config.pck in Fedora 30 In-Reply-To: References: <7ce93296-3e4a-77ba-d4d4-fdc55235ff55@msapiro.net> <5AF34618-6F7F-4B01-B94D-53856E6EEE36@fordham.edu> <2791ec04-7757-489f-cc1e-11b436a5b87d@msapiro.net> <2e430b59-6e1c-0b74-28d6-7e79cc40b595@msapiro.net> <5d93fea4-a1d4-6dc3-4070-dd83b0402ad4@msapiro.net> <6B27B94E-2002-4818-A029-E6B505845FDA@fordham.edu> <131FEF31-5D72-4E1F-A7A5-4EE2C668F77C@fordham.edu> <07890686-8d33-0e7d-014a-e50bda33d95f@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <0fad39c6-84fb-10d5-749f-a1e83a12bb0e@msapiro.net> On 7/25/19 12:30 PM, Robert Kudyba wrote: > > Have you seen the suggestion to use Apache with suexec at > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Apache+Suexec ? My first attempt was > unsuccessful, I kept getting: > Apache-Error: [file "util_script.c"] [line 497] [level 3] End of script > output before headers: listinfo > Apache-Handler: cgi-script That says the CGI process terminated before producing any output, but that's not too useful by itself. Is there anything else in Apache's logs or Mailman's error log? We do not recommend using Apache SuEXEC. It is difficult to configure properly. You need to ensure you have addressed all 20 points at -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From nikos at qbit.gr Fri Jul 26 08:04:17 2019 From: nikos at qbit.gr (nikos) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 15:04:17 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive cleanup Message-ID: Hello list. I need information to clean older years of archive. Can someone help me? Thank you in advance. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Jul 26 11:26:03 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 08:26:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35ef0b57-908e-4187-aee7-57bb28a9abc7@msapiro.net> On 7/26/19 5:04 AM, nikos wrote: > Hello list. > > I need information to clean older years of archive. > > Can someone help me? See . In particular, see the script linked from the NOTE ON PRUNING OLD MESSAGES: section. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From engrav at mac.com Sun Jul 28 10:58:53 2019 From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 07:58:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook Message-ID: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> Greetings I use Mailman (2.1.26) at Site5.com. Several of the member addresses are @yahoo.com @aol.com and @outlook.com. Messages to these address bounce and fail and / or just fail. Messages to other addresses pass. The latest notice(s) are summarized below. Site5 people cannot seem to fix this. Any advice for me / Site5? (I am not expert at this) Thank you Loren Engrav =================== his is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: testwg Member: engravosaurusrex at aol.com Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway1.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender Date: July 27, 2019 at 9:38:57 PM PDT To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi This is the mail system at host gateway1.unifiedlayer.com . I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway1.unifiedlayer.com X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 47C7320078818 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:13:17 -0500 (CDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurusrex at aol.com Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurusrex at aol.com Action: failed Status: 4.4.2 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO From: testwg-request at engrav.mobi Subject: confirm 29e587acb271cfb11cfadd8ca325f3ffa9bd2fca Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:13:15 PM PDT To: engravosaurusrex at aol.com Your membership in the mailing list testwg has been disabled due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated 27-Jul-2019. If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner at testwg-owner at engrav.mobi ======================== This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: testwg Member: engravosaurus at yahoo.com Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. The triggering bounce notice is attached below. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at engrav.mobi . From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway13.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender Date: July 27, 2019 at 10:19:15 PM PDT To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi This is the mail system at host gateway13.unifiedlayer.com . I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway13.unifiedlayer.com X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 598BC200A4FF9 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:53:54 -0500 (CDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurus at yahoo.com Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurus at yahoo.com Action: failed Status: 4.4.2 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO From: Loren Engrav > Subject: [testwg] 7:53 [#NAC-143-22422]: Email bounceback [uscentral427.accountservergroup.com ] Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:53:36 PM PDT To: testwg at engrav.mobi From engrav at mac.com Sun Jul 28 11:25:17 2019 From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 08:25:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com> Message-ID: and searched archives and see this goes back years and years is there a quick fix I missed in the archives? > On Jul 28, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Loren Engrav wrote: > > and > after the last round the screen is shown below > message saying aol disabled > no message for yahoo but there is the nomail checked > no message for outlook and no check by nomail > > > >> On Jul 28, 2019, at 7:58 AM, Loren Engrav > wrote: >> >> Greetings >> >> I use Mailman (2.1.26) at Site5.com . >> >> Several of the member addresses are @yahoo.com @aol.com and @outlook.com. >> >> Messages to these address bounce and fail and / or just fail. Messages to other addresses pass. >> >> The latest notice(s) are summarized below. >> >> Site5 people cannot seem to fix this. >> >> Any advice for me / Site5? (I am not expert at this) >> >> Thank you >> >> Loren Engrav >> >> =================== >> his is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: >> >> List: testwg >> Member: engravosaurusrex at aol.com >> Action: Subscription disabled. >> Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. >> >> >> From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway1.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) >> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender >> Date: July 27, 2019 at 9:38:57 PM PDT >> To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi >> >> >> This is the mail system at host gateway1.unifiedlayer.com . >> >> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not >> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. >> >> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. >> >> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can >> delete your own text from the attached returned message. >> >> The mail system >> >> >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection >> with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO >> Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway1.unifiedlayer.com >> X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 47C7320078818 >> X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi >> Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:13:17 -0500 (CDT) >> >> Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurusrex at aol.com >> Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurusrex at aol.com >> Action: failed >> Status: 4.4.2 >> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection >> with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO >> >> From: testwg-request at engrav.mobi >> Subject: confirm 29e587acb271cfb11cfadd8ca325f3ffa9bd2fca >> Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:13:15 PM PDT >> To: engravosaurusrex at aol.com >> >> Your membership in the mailing list testwg has been disabled due to >> excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated >> 27-Jul-2019. >> >> If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner >> at >> >> testwg-owner at engrav.mobi >> >> ======================== >> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: >> >> List: testwg >> Member: engravosaurus at yahoo.com >> Action: Subscription disabled. >> Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. >> >> >> >> The triggering bounce notice is attached below. >> >> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at >> mailman at engrav.mobi . >> >> From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway13.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) >> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender >> Date: July 27, 2019 at 10:19:15 PM PDT >> To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi >> >> >> This is the mail system at host gateway13.unifiedlayer.com . >> >> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not >> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. >> >> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. >> >> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can >> delete your own text from the attached returned message. >> >> The mail system >> >> >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with >> mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO >> Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway13.unifiedlayer.com >> X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 598BC200A4FF9 >> X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi >> Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:53:54 -0500 (CDT) >> >> Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurus at yahoo.com >> Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurus at yahoo.com >> Action: failed >> Status: 4.4.2 >> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection >> with mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO >> >> From: Loren Engrav > >> Subject: [testwg] 7:53 [#NAC-143-22422]: Email bounceback [uscentral427.accountservergroup.com ] >> Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:53:36 PM PDT >> To: testwg at engrav.mobi >> >> >> > From mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com Sun Jul 28 12:52:06 2019 From: mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 12:52:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com> Message-ID: <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com> On 28 Jul 2019, at 11:25, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote: > and searched archives > and see this goes back years and years > is there a quick fix I missed in the archives? This looks like a DMARC problem. See https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) From jaybird at bluegrasspals.com Sun Jul 28 13:04:01 2019 From: jaybird at bluegrasspals.com (Jayson Smith) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 13:04:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> Message-ID: <2bee3d96-4748-1045-7e6c-661a3d657fb1@bluegrasspals.com> Hi, The problem I'm familiar with is messages *from* AOL/Hotmail/Yahoo/etc. being rejected by other Email providers. I haven't done it in years so I'm not sure where it is, but there's an option in the list config to munge the From: lines of messages where Mailman detects this will be an issue. If that's not the problem, my only advice would be to check to see if your IP is on any spam blacklists, insure SPF and DKIM are set up for better message authentication, insure your IP has proper reverse DNS, etc. Hope this helps, Jayson On 7/28/2019 10:58 AM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote: > Greetings > > I use Mailman (2.1.26) at Site5.com. > > Several of the member addresses are @yahoo.com @aol.com and @outlook.com. > > Messages to these address bounce and fail and / or just fail. Messages to other addresses pass. > > The latest notice(s) are summarized below. > > Site5 people cannot seem to fix this. > > Any advice for me / Site5? (I am not expert at this) > > Thank you > > Loren Engrav > > =================== > his is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: > > List: testwg > Member: engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Action: Subscription disabled. > Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. > > > From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway1.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) > Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > Date: July 27, 2019 at 9:38:57 PM PDT > To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > > > This is the mail system at host gateway1.unifiedlayer.com . > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO > Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway1.unifiedlayer.com > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 47C7320078818 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:13:17 -0500 (CDT) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.2 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO > > From: testwg-request at engrav.mobi > Subject: confirm 29e587acb271cfb11cfadd8ca325f3ffa9bd2fca > Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:13:15 PM PDT > To: engravosaurusrex at aol.com > > Your membership in the mailing list testwg has been disabled due to > excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated > 27-Jul-2019. > > If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner > at > > testwg-owner at engrav.mobi > > ======================== > This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: > > List: testwg > Member: engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Action: Subscription disabled. > Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. > > > > The triggering bounce notice is attached below. > > Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at > mailman at engrav.mobi . > > From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway13.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) > Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > Date: July 27, 2019 at 10:19:15 PM PDT > To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > > > This is the mail system at host gateway13.unifiedlayer.com . > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with > mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO > Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway13.unifiedlayer.com > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 598BC200A4FF9 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:53:54 -0500 (CDT) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.2 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO > > From: Loren Engrav > > Subject: [testwg] 7:53 [#NAC-143-22422]: Email bounceback [uscentral427.accountservergroup.com ] > Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:53:36 PM PDT > To: testwg at engrav.mobi > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaybird%40bluegrasspals.com > > From mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com Sun Jul 28 14:12:55 2019 From: mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:12:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <2bee3d96-4748-1045-7e6c-661a3d657fb1@bluegrasspals.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> <2bee3d96-4748-1045-7e6c-661a3d657fb1@bluegrasspals.com> Message-ID: <970D816D-9321-4F03-AD6A-B88A58E6D180@billmail.scconsult.com> On 28 Jul 2019, at 13:04, Jayson Smith wrote: > Hi, > > The problem I'm familiar with is messages *from* > AOL/Hotmail/Yahoo/etc. being rejected by other Email providers. It happens in both directions. Providers who publish a "p=reject" DMARC policy typically also honor other providers' "p=reject" DMARC policies. If a mailing list makes any change to messages, it should also either munge From or wrap messages to avoid problems. You can do that for all messages, only for "p=reject" sender domains, or for both "p=reject" and "p=quarantine" domains. -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) From engrav at mac.com Sun Jul 28 16:31:03 2019 From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 13:31:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <970D816D-9321-4F03-AD6A-B88A58E6D180@billmail.scconsult.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> <2bee3d96-4748-1045-7e6c-661a3d657fb1@bluegrasspals.com> <970D816D-9321-4F03-AD6A-B88A58E6D180@billmail.scconsult.com> Message-ID: <12B7F0BC-471C-4AD2-BDCC-ECC91A186892@mac.com> Hi I tried munge yes yes and wrap yes yes on my Mailman (not at Site5) under Privacy > Sender munge? still messages failed to yahoo aol and outlook wrap? message to outlook passed but yahoo and aol failed > On Jul 28, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Bill Cole wrote: > > On 28 Jul 2019, at 13:04, Jayson Smith wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The problem I'm familiar with is messages *from* AOL/Hotmail/Yahoo/etc. being rejected by other Email providers. > > It happens in both directions. Providers who publish a "p=reject" DMARC policy typically also honor other providers' "p=reject" DMARC policies. If a mailing list makes any change to messages, it should also either munge From or wrap messages to avoid problems. You can do that for all messages, only for "p=reject" sender domains, or for both "p=reject" and "p=quarantine" domains. > > -- > Bill Cole > bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org > (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/engrav%40mac.com From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jul 28 17:44:22 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:44:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com> <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com> Message-ID: <1e2d444c-b3ed-6f16-b797-d56a564f1674@msapiro.net> On 7/28/19 9:52 AM, Bill Cole wrote: > On 28 Jul 2019, at 11:25, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote: > >> and searched archives >> and see this goes back years and years >> is there a quick fix I missed in the archives? > > This looks like a DMARC problem. It is not a DMARC issue. The disconnect comes in response to the SMTP RCPT TO command. DMARC can't be checked until after DATA and in any case would normally result in a rejection, not a disconnect. I started to draft another reply earlier this morning. I will send that soon. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jul 28 18:05:14 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:05:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> Message-ID: <9b50ade7-2c21-5864-430c-2f81aa80284e@msapiro.net> On 7/28/19 7:58 AM, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote: > Greetings > > I use Mailman (2.1.26) at Site5.com. > > Several of the member addresses are @yahoo.com @aol.com and @outlook.com. > > Messages to these address bounce and fail and / or just fail. Messages to other addresses pass. > > The latest notice(s) are summarized below. > > Site5 people cannot seem to fix this. > > Any advice for me / Site5? (I am not expert at this) ... > Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.2 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO ... > Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.2 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO These are 4xx statuses which are retryable so presumably they are retried until the retry time limit is up and are finally turned into permanent failures. The recipient Yahoo MX servers, more than one, are disconnecting after sending a (presumably OK) response to MAIL FROM. This means there is something about the sending server that they don't like. There are different sending servers here as well. They are gateway1.unifiedlayer.com and gateway13.unifiedlayer.com. This is not a DMARC issue nor anything that can be fixed with DKIM, because the receiving server disconnects before it has seen any of the message. It has seen enough to validate SPF because that only requires the MAIL FROM domain, but I've never personally seen or heard of servers disconnecting that suddenly because of an SPF failure, but it's possible. It's also possible that the sending IPs are blacklisted by Yahoo (and maybe by Microsoft - Outlook). AOL's MX is Yahoo. My best guess is Yahoo really doesn't like unifiedlayer.com, but is waiting for the recipient address before hanging up because it may accept special addresses like maybe postmaster. This is something that has to be worked out between unifiedlayer.com and Yahoo and maybe outlook.com. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From engrav at mac.com Sun Jul 28 20:40:56 2019 From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 17:40:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <1e2d444c-b3ed-6f16-b797-d56a564f1674@msapiro.net> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com> <9C6D28F3-9AFF-4C02-911C-31A9FB2C311E@billmail.scconsult.com> <1e2d444c-b3ed-6f16-b797-d56a564f1674@msapiro.net> Message-ID: thank you will be interesting maybe will help Site5 fix things supporting your opinion I tried munge and wrap, as mentioned, and neither fixed > On Jul 28, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 7/28/19 9:52 AM, Bill Cole wrote: >> On 28 Jul 2019, at 11:25, Loren Engrav via Mailman-Users wrote: >> >>> and searched archives >>> and see this goes back years and years >>> is there a quick fix I missed in the archives? >> >> This looks like a DMARC problem. > > > It is not a DMARC issue. The disconnect comes in response to the SMTP > RCPT TO command. DMARC can't be checked until after DATA and in any case > would normally result in a rejection, not a disconnect. > > I started to draft another reply earlier this morning. I will send that > soon. > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/engrav%40mac.com From ma3ry at icloud.com Mon Jul 29 12:59:31 2019 From: ma3ry at icloud.com (Mary Pearson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:59:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Serve Has Stopped Working Message-ID: I have had Mailman (current version v 2.1.27) List Serve working perfectly on my website for several years. On July 5, I made some changes to my DNS settings to satisfy cPanel's Email Deliverability standards, and since then my List Serve no longer works. I don't know if that was the cause, or if I have done something else to break it, and DNS records were just a coincidence. I now have my main domain of ChristianGays.com and sub-domain of mail.christiangays.com complying with DKIM and SPF records. All is good now from that aspect, but the List Serve still doesn't work. When I say it does not work, I can send and receive using my mary at christiangays.com email address, but if I use any of my other email addresses, or if another member writes, the list serve does not forward to the group. The sent emails can be found in the Archives, but they don't come through to our inboxes. Log Errors (which I don't understand) show: [29-Jul-2019 16:45:48 UTC] PHP Deprecated: Methods with the same name as their class will not be constructors in a future version of PHP; wp_mail_from has a deprecated constructor in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/change-wp-mail-from-details/change-mail-from.php on line 105 [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Deprecated: Function create_function() is deprecated in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/themes/generatepress_child/functions.php on line 249 [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/simple-membership/classes/class.swpm-init-time-tasks.php on line 20 I did not set this up. I know nothing of Python or Mailman, so although I have read your FAQ's, I am really not qualified to implement the instructions. I hired someone years ago to set this List Serve up for me, but now he is not available. I have since hired two other people, one who specializes in Python to try to figure it out, and neither of them could find the problem. Since two coders have not been able to fix it, I doubt that giving me instructions of what to look for would help. I could hire someone else via Freelancer again, but believe it may just be more of a waste of time. I would rather have someone who knows Mailman well, as I assume you all do. I am willing to pay someone to look at the back end of my site to get this working again. Is that possible? Thank you. Mary Pearson ChristianGays.com From engrav at mac.com Sun Jul 28 11:13:09 2019 From: engrav at mac.com (Loren Engrav) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 08:13:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages fail to @yahoo @aol @outlook In-Reply-To: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> References: <7B3C2D0A-27C4-420E-B516-2B18943A9CD0@mac.com> Message-ID: <8392AE7D-5DA3-41B0-B9E8-52AC5C031BB3@mac.com> and after the last round the screen is shown below message saying aol disabled no message for yahoo but there is the nomail checked no message for outlook and no check by nomail > On Jul 28, 2019, at 7:58 AM, Loren Engrav wrote: > > Greetings > > I use Mailman (2.1.26) at Site5.com . > > Several of the member addresses are @yahoo.com @aol.com and @outlook.com. > > Messages to these address bounce and fail and / or just fail. Messages to other addresses pass. > > The latest notice(s) are summarized below. > > Site5 people cannot seem to fix this. > > Any advice for me / Site5? (I am not expert at this) > > Thank you > > Loren Engrav > > =================== > his is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: > > List: testwg > Member: engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Action: Subscription disabled. > Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. > > > From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway1.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) > Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > Date: July 27, 2019 at 9:38:57 PM PDT > To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > > > This is the mail system at host gateway1.unifiedlayer.com . > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO > Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway1.unifiedlayer.com > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 47C7320078818 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:13:17 -0500 (CDT) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurusrex at aol.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.2 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mx-aol.mail.gm0.yahoodns.net [98.136.101.116] while sending RCPT TO > > From: testwg-request at engrav.mobi > Subject: confirm 29e587acb271cfb11cfadd8ca325f3ffa9bd2fca > Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:13:15 PM PDT > To: engravosaurusrex at aol.com > > Your membership in the mailing list testwg has been disabled due to > excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated > 27-Jul-2019. > > If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner > at > > testwg-owner at engrav.mobi > > ======================== > This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: > > List: testwg > Member: engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Action: Subscription disabled. > Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. > > > > The triggering bounce notice is attached below. > > Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at > mailman at engrav.mobi . > > From: MAILER-DAEMON at gateway13.unifiedlayer.com (Mail Delivery System) > Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > Date: July 27, 2019 at 10:19:15 PM PDT > To: testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > > > This is the mail system at host gateway13.unifiedlayer.com . > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > >: delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with > mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO > Reporting-MTA: dns; gateway13.unifiedlayer.com > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 598BC200A4FF9 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; testwg-bounces at engrav.mobi > Arrival-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:53:54 -0500 (CDT) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Original-Recipient: rfc822;engravosaurus at yahoo.com > Action: failed > Status: 4.4.2 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection > with mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.24] while sending RCPT TO > > From: Loren Engrav > > Subject: [testwg] 7:53 [#NAC-143-22422]: Email bounceback [uscentral427.accountservergroup.com ] > Date: July 27, 2019 at 7:53:36 PM PDT > To: testwg at engrav.mobi > > > From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jul 29 20:45:25 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 17:45:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Serve Has Stopped Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> On 7/29/19 9:59 AM, Mary Pearson via Mailman-Users wrote: > I have had Mailman (current version v 2.1.27) List Serve working perfectly on my website for several years. Please see . > On July 5, I made some changes to my DNS settings to satisfy cPanel's Email Deliverability standards, and since then my List Serve no longer works. I don't know if that was the cause, or if I have done something else to break it, and DNS records were just a coincidence. > > I now have my main domain of ChristianGays.com and sub-domain of mail.christiangays.com complying with DKIM and SPF records. All is good now from that aspect, but the List Serve still doesn't work. > > When I say it does not work, I can send and receive using my mary at christiangays.com email address, but if I use any of my other email addresses, or if another member writes, the list serve does not forward to the group. > > The sent emails can be found in the Archives, but they don't come through to our inboxes. So there seems to be some issue with outgoing mail delivery from Mailman to external addresses. The mail reaches Mailman because it is archived. Is mail from others delivered to mary at christiangays.com? > Log Errors (which I don't understand) show: > > [29-Jul-2019 16:45:48 UTC] PHP Deprecated: Methods with the same name as their class will not be constructors in a future version of PHP; wp_mail_from has a deprecated constructor in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/change-wp-mail-from-details/change-mail-from.php on line 105 > [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Deprecated: Function create_function() is deprecated in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/themes/generatepress_child/functions.php on line 249 > [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/simple-membership/classes/class.swpm-init-time-tasks.php on line 20 These PHP errors are irrelevant. They may have something to do with Wordpress?? The logs you want to look at are the MTA (probably Exim in cPanel) logs and Mailman's logs (in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs in standard cPanel). > I did not set this up. I know nothing of Python or Mailman, so although I have read your FAQ's, I am really not qualified to implement the instructions. Does this mean you've seen and ? > I hired someone years ago to set this List Serve up for me, but now he is not available. I have since hired two other people, one who specializes in Python to try to figure it out, and neither of them could find the problem. > > Since two coders have not been able to fix it, I doubt that giving me instructions of what to look for would help. > > I could hire someone else via Freelancer again, but believe it may just be more of a waste of time. I would rather have someone who knows Mailman well, as I assume you all do. I am willing to pay someone to look at the back end of my site to get this working again. Is that possible? My two rules are "I don't work for money." and "I don't touch your server." and in any case, I'm going to be unavailable for even what support I normally provide via this list for the next 6 weeks. I hope someone else on this list can help you. There's also . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jul 29 21:06:39 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:06:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Serve Has Stopped Working In-Reply-To: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> References: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <50d8c44f-307d-ab6b-6cbc-f1e3fee7437c@msapiro.net> On 7/29/19 5:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/29/19 9:59 AM, Mary Pearson via Mailman-Users wrote: >> I have had Mailman (current version v 2.1.27) List Serve working perfectly on my website for several years. > > > Please see . > > >> On July 5, I made some changes to my DNS settings to satisfy cPanel's Email Deliverability standards, and since then my List Serve no longer works. I don't know if that was the cause, or if I have done something else to break it, and DNS records were just a coincidence. >> >> I now have my main domain of ChristianGays.com and sub-domain of mail.christiangays.com complying with DKIM and SPF records. All is good now from that aspect, but the List Serve still doesn't work. >> >> When I say it does not work, I can send and receive using my mary at christiangays.com email address, but if I use any of my other email addresses, or if another member writes, the list serve does not forward to the group. >> >> The sent emails can be found in the Archives, but they don't come through to our inboxes. > > So there seems to be some issue with outgoing mail delivery from Mailman > to external addresses. The mail reaches Mailman because it is archived. > Is mail from others delivered to mary at christiangays.com? > > >> Log Errors (which I don't understand) show: >> >> [29-Jul-2019 16:45:48 UTC] PHP Deprecated: Methods with the same name as their class will not be constructors in a future version of PHP; wp_mail_from has a deprecated constructor in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/change-wp-mail-from-details/change-mail-from.php on line 105 >> [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Deprecated: Function create_function() is deprecated in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/themes/generatepress_child/functions.php on line 249 >> [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/simple-membership/classes/class.swpm-init-time-tasks.php on line 20 > > > These PHP errors are irrelevant. They may have something to do with > Wordpress?? The logs you want to look at are the MTA (probably Exim in > cPanel) logs and Mailman's logs (in > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs in standard cPanel). > > >> I did not set this up. I know nothing of Python or Mailman, so although I have read your FAQ's, I am really not qualified to implement the instructions. > > > Does this mean you've seen > and > ? > > >> I hired someone years ago to set this List Serve up for me, but now he is not available. I have since hired two other people, one who specializes in Python to try to figure it out, and neither of them could find the problem. >> >> Since two coders have not been able to fix it, I doubt that giving me instructions of what to look for would help. >> >> I could hire someone else via Freelancer again, but believe it may just be more of a waste of time. I would rather have someone who knows Mailman well, as I assume you all do. I am willing to pay someone to look at the back end of my site to get this working again. Is that possible? > > > My two rules are "I don't work for money." and "I don't touch your > server." and in any case, I'm going to be unavailable for even what > support I normally provide via this list for the next 6 weeks. > > I hope someone else on this list can help you. > > There's also . > -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From heller at deepsoft.com Mon Jul 29 21:04:24 2019 From: heller at deepsoft.com (Robert Heller) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Serve Has Stopped Working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20190730010424.A39CD26C0166@sharky3.deepsoft.com> At Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:59:31 -0400 Mary Pearson wrote: > > I have had Mailman (current version v 2.1.27) List Serve working perfectly on my website for several years. On July 5, I made some changes to my DNS settings to satisfy cPanel's Email Deliverability standards, and since then my List Serve no longer works. I don't know if that was the cause, or if I have done something else to break it, and DNS records were just a coincidence. > > I now have my main domain of ChristianGays.com and sub-domain of mail.christiangays.com complying with DKIM and SPF records. All is good now from that aspect, but the List Serve still doesn't work. > > When I say it does not work, I can send and receive using my mary at christiangays.com email address, but if I use any of my other email addresses, or if another member writes, the list serve does not forward to the group. > > The sent emails can be found in the Archives, but they don't come through to our inboxes. > > Log Errors (which I don't understand) show: > > [29-Jul-2019 16:45:48 UTC] PHP Deprecated: Methods with the same name as their class will not be constructors in a future version of PHP; wp_mail_from has a deprecated constructor in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/change-wp-mail-from-details/change-mail-from.php on line 105 > [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Deprecated: Function create_function() is deprecated in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/themes/generatepress_child/functions.php on line 249 > [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/simple-membership/classes/class.swpm-init-time-tasks.php on line 20 These are PHP messages that seem to relate to a WordPress plugin. Nothing to do with Mailman, which is written in Python. Your problems sound like a problem with the Mailman => outbound mail server interface -- something is misconfigured there. Do you know what you are using for a mail server? Sendmail? Postfix? Something else? What operating system is the server itself running? CentOS 6, 7? Ubuntu? Something else? > > I did not set this up. I know nothing of Python or Mailman, so although I have read your FAQ's, I am really not qualified to implement the instructions. > > I hired someone years ago to set this List Serve up for me, but now he is not available. I have since hired two other people, one who specializes in Python to try to figure it out, and neither of them could find the problem. > > Since two coders have not been able to fix it, I doubt that giving me instructions of what to look for would help. > > I could hire someone else via Freelancer again, but believe it may just be more of a waste of time. I would rather have someone who knows Mailman well, as I assume you all do. I am willing to pay someone to look at the back end of my site to get this working again. Is that possible? > > Thank you. > Mary Pearson > ChristianGays.com > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services heller at deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services From ma3ry at icloud.com Mon Jul 29 21:11:02 2019 From: ma3ry at icloud.com (Mary Pearson) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:11:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Serve Has Stopped Working In-Reply-To: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> References: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <2293AAF2-8AAF-4571-B66C-8ECF20E8F318@icloud.com> Thank you everyone for your input. A dear gentleman from cPanel tech support was able to figure it out for me and it is now working. Mary On Jul 29, 2019, at 8:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 7/29/19 9:59 AM, Mary Pearson via Mailman-Users wrote: > I have had Mailman (current version v 2.1.27) List Serve working perfectly on my website for several years. Please see . > On July 5, I made some changes to my DNS settings to satisfy cPanel's Email Deliverability standards, and since then my List Serve no longer works. I don't know if that was the cause, or if I have done something else to break it, and DNS records were just a coincidence. > > I now have my main domain of ChristianGays.com and sub-domain of mail.christiangays.com complying with DKIM and SPF records. All is good now from that aspect, but the List Serve still doesn't work. > > When I say it does not work, I can send and receive using my mary at christiangays.com email address, but if I use any of my other email addresses, or if another member writes, the list serve does not forward to the group. > > The sent emails can be found in the Archives, but they don't come through to our inboxes. So there seems to be some issue with outgoing mail delivery from Mailman to external addresses. The mail reaches Mailman because it is archived. Is mail from others delivered to mary at christiangays.com? > Log Errors (which I don't understand) show: > > [29-Jul-2019 16:45:48 UTC] PHP Deprecated: Methods with the same name as their class will not be constructors in a future version of PHP; wp_mail_from has a deprecated constructor in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/change-wp-mail-from-details/change-mail-from.php on line 105 > [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Deprecated: Function create_function() is deprecated in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/themes/generatepress_child/functions.php on line 249 > [29-Jul-2019 12:45:48 America/Toronto] PHP Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent in /home/mary/public_html/mary-content/plugins/simple-membership/classes/class.swpm-init-time-tasks.php on line 20 These PHP errors are irrelevant. They may have something to do with Wordpress?? The logs you want to look at are the MTA (probably Exim in cPanel) logs and Mailman's logs (in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs in standard cPanel). > I did not set this up. I know nothing of Python or Mailman, so although I have read your FAQ's, I am really not qualified to implement the instructions. Does this mean you've seen and ? > I hired someone years ago to set this List Serve up for me, but now he is not available. I have since hired two other people, one who specializes in Python to try to figure it out, and neither of them could find the problem. > > Since two coders have not been able to fix it, I doubt that giving me instructions of what to look for would help. > > I could hire someone else via Freelancer again, but believe it may just be more of a waste of time. I would rather have someone who knows Mailman well, as I assume you all do. I am willing to pay someone to look at the back end of my site to get this working again. Is that possible? My two rules are "I don't work for money." and "I don't touch your server." and in any case, I'm going to be unavailable for even what support I normally provide via this list for the next 6 weeks. I hope someone else on this list can help you. There's also . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ma3ry%40icloud.com From mark at msapiro.net Mon Jul 29 21:12:23 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:12:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Serve Has Stopped Working In-Reply-To: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> References: <7561bee1-d187-8ad6-3000-d65dfc679512@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On 7/29/19 5:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > I hope someone else on this list can help you. > > There's also . Sorry for the immediately prior premature send. What I meant to add here is this is almost certainly not a Mailman issue. I can't be certain without seeing Mailman's logs, but it seems highly likely that Mailman is continuing to deliver outgoing mail to the MTA (Exim) via SMTP to localhost port 25. The issue is most likely in Exim and whatever you did there to implement DKIM signing. And now I see the above is moot, but since I already wrote it ... -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From Brett at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca Wed Jul 31 17:13:27 2019 From: Brett at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (Brett Delmage) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman eats this message. Why? Message-ID: I've been having trouble with one subscriber whose content was always stripped. After changing a Content filtering flag and discovering that lynx was not installed, my tests of my own multipart html + text, and html-only messages indicated I had finally had Mailman correctly configured, or so it seemed. I got content in both cases. But a test message from this user appears to have been eaten by MM. Postfix shows delivery to the MM list alias and that's where it ends. MM logs nothing for this message in any log and it is not posted. Using Mailman version: 2.1.29 I have included the Content filtering section from bin/config_list and a stripped-down version of the message that went AWOL with content and headers that are of potential interest. I'd welcome any suggestions or requests for more info or next debugging steps as may be appropriate. Thank you! Brett p.s. forget asking this user to send multipart including text. Some users are just incapable of that. But if I have to inform him that his HTML-only messages as sent will never get through MM, that's ok. lost message: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:14:23 -0400 (EDT) ... Message-ID: <566705347.6949993.1564600463102.JavaMail.open-xchange at mtlgui02> Subject: Re: Please help us test the new freelance email list server MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.6.1-Rev29 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite

Hi Brett:
 Would be great to participate in the discussions on the list.

thanks

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--------------- excerpt of config_list -o: filter_content = 1 filter_mime_types = '' pass_mime_types = """multipart/mixed multipart/alternative multipart message/rfc822 text/plain text/html""" filter_filename_extensions = """exe bat cmd com pif scr vbs cpl pdf zip doc rtf xls vcf""" pass_filename_extensions = '' collapse_alternatives = True convert_html_to_plaintext = True filter_action = 3