From rdiezmail-temp2 at yahoo.de Fri Feb 1 03:14:49 2019 From: rdiezmail-temp2 at yahoo.de (R. Diez) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:14:49 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> Message-ID: > [...] > I will ask you how much you are willing to talk to a person who > basically interrupts, says they aren't really interested in the general > conversation, so isn't really listening, but if you go out of your way > to answer in a special way they will hear you. (Which is one way to > describe what you are doing), I do not understand why you are misrepresenting my actions. This is the second time in this list, but I have noticed this pattern elsewhere. I am not interrupting anything. That is a silly thing to say in this context. A mailing list is not a conversation that can get interrupted. A mailing list revolves around "topics". That is why people sometimes ask to start a new thread if the subject changes. That is how you skip the things you are not interested in. You cannot follow everything. Most mailing lists labelled as "users" explicitly state that users are welcome to ask questions. I have participated in many such mailing lists, mostly for a short time, because I am using a lot of open-source software. I have not (really) subscribed to any of them. But I am listening, at least to my subjects. I am participating in this matter. It is unrealistic to expect general users to subscribe to every mailing list and read many messages before they ask the one important question for them today. It is unrealistic to hope that this will help grow a community. I am not asking for people to "go out of their way to answer in a special way". I am saying that Mailman should do it automatically. See below. If you think users like me, who do not subscribe and read everything, interrupt and do not really contribute with their messages, your best defence is to make this mailing list private. However, if this were my open-source project, I would rather not build such communication barriers. This includes dropping terms like "spam" or "a person who basically interrupts" around them. Of course there is the concept of 'Topic' in a mailing list. Mailman, the web interface, or whatever, does know how to group topics together. That is an obvious feature, because people tend to work/participate in threads. It is true that Mailman cannot achieve 100 % reliability, because it is based on e-mail. Nobody would expect that, not even in web-only forums (notification e-mails can also get lost). But Mailman should at least try its best. It has the e-mail subject and some extra headers to help. That would be enough in most scenarios, like it is usually enough for the web archives. Filtering short prefixes like "Re:" has never been a great problem. And threads participated by humans do not last forever. My guess is, it would mostly work. Maybe some huge mailing list, like the Linux Kernel, would have to disable such a feature because of CPU or disk load. But most mailing lists could cope with that. Incidentally, on huge mailing lists, where no-one can read everything, people are more aware that you should address and/or copy the original poster, or they will not get the message. It is silly to ask people to setup their own e-mail filters for each subject they are interested in, like others suggested here. Computers are there to help users, and not the other way around. Other communication platforms, like Google Groups and https://forum.freifunk.net/ , have both an e-mail and a web interface. I rarely use those web interfaces, and they still do a pretty good job at keeping you in the loop for the topics you have participated in. Unfortunately, I cannot contribute code to this project. It is not just lack of time (I have my own open-source projects), but I don't know Python yet. Regards, rdiez From rdiezmail-temp2 at yahoo.de Fri Feb 1 03:30:54 2019 From: rdiezmail-temp2 at yahoo.de (R. Diez) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:30:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <847eek1v87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> References: <847eek1v87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: > Except then you run into ethical issues and possible legal violations of > emailing people who have not opted-n to receive the email. This is becoming tiresome... When you e-mail or subscribe to a mailing list, you are opting in to receive e-mail. If you participate in a topic/subject/thread, of course you expect to receive e-mails about those. That is what mailing lists are about. That should stand in court. Mailman has a long page with settings like digest mode, stop delivery (holiday mode), and many, many more. Other communication platforms like Google Group allow you to manage subscriptions per topic. How about some new settings like this: [ x ] Automatically follow topics/subjects/threads I have participated in. And a reset button for the unlikely emergency: ( Drop all automatic following for all threads ) > [...] > you have to create an account so you can post. This is mostly the case because of spam. I never said that I oppose the subscription step. But that should be some kind of authentication and opt in disclaimer. I am against that you must then read everything. Or nothing. Or manually create filters on your e-mail box. Or some other non-practical way that turn people off before coming by. > And, as has been pointed out previously in this discussion, there is a > difference between mailing lists and web forums or bulletin boards... There is no such difference. It is all in your head. There are communication platforms that have both interfaces, e-mail and web. You can configure and use your mailing lists / forums / whatever in many ways. You can state your own policies in your own mailing lists. People participating in mailing lists do work in threads. That is how humans operate. Other systems can do it. I understand that you do not want to implement it yourself in Mailman, but why oppose the idea? Regards, rdiez From luscheina at yahoo.de Fri Feb 1 04:01:08 2019 From: luscheina at yahoo.de (Christian F Buser) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 10:01:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <847eek1v87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: <20190201100108775535.90f6493e@yahoo.de> Hello R. Diez. On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:30:54 +0100, you wrote: > Other systems can do it. I understand that you do not want to > implement it yourself in Mailman, but why oppose the idea? Then use these "other systems", please. Or try to implement the solution suggested by tlhackque in his/her mail on Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:35:20 -0500. But I see from your message at Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:14:49 +0100 that you prefer to have others do the work for you... And no, you do not need to Cc: me for each of your messages. Christian -- Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland) Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org From chip at aresti.com Fri Feb 1 07:03:35 2019 From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 07:03:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <847eek1v87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: On 2/1/2019 3:30 AM, R. Diez via Mailman-Users wrote: > > This is becoming tiresome... Indeed. Except I'd substitute the second-person pronoun for the third... > Mailman has a long page with settings like digest mode, stop delivery > (holiday mode), and many, many more. Other communication platforms > like Google Group allow you to manage subscriptions per topic. How > about some new settings like this: > > [ x ]? Automatically follow topics/subjects/threads I have > participated in. What you are asking for is not impossible but it is not a SMOP. It will require a significant effort on the part of volunteer developers and result in a significant increase in the size of the package, with a concomitant increase in volunteer support and administration effort. >> And, as has been pointed out previously in this discussion, there is a >> difference between mailing lists and web forums or bulletin boards... > > There is no such difference. It is all in your head. You have been provided several patient, thoughtful, and perfectly clear explanations that there _is_ a difference between a listserver and a forum/BB, starting with the distinction between a "push" interface and a "pull" one. > There are > communication platforms that have both interfaces, e-mail and web. Yes, but they are not as lithe or lissome as Mailman, and more difficult to administer. > Other systems can do it. I understand that you do not want to > implement it yourself in Mailman, but why oppose the idea? One word: spork. There are plenty of web forum offerings, many free, that have some sort of email access, usually as an afterthought. As such, they are the software equivalent of a spoon into which someone cut notches, making it a lousy fork and a poor spoon. I, for one, have no time to waste logging into dozens of fora looking for postings of interest. Such postings are emailed to me, in the same way that notes to all of my email accounts are. My MUA does the spam-filtering, searching, sorting, filing, display, and composition functions. I need only that one (programmable) tool to handle all my inputs. -Chip- From Richard at Damon-Family.org Fri Feb 1 07:22:58 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 07:22:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <3675c8ea-a8c4-239f-1d6a-7ef806a1f0d7@Damon-Family.org> On 2/1/19 3:14 AM, R. Diez wrote: > > > [...] >> I will ask you how much you are willing to talk to a person who >> basically interrupts, says they aren't really interested in the general >> conversation, so isn't really listening, but if you go out of your way >> to answer in a special way they will hear you. (Which is one way to >> describe what you are doing), > > I do not understand why you are misrepresenting my actions. This is > the second time in this list, but I have noticed this pattern elsewhere. > > I am not interrupting anything. That is a silly thing to say in this > context. A mailing list is not a conversation that can get > interrupted. A mailing list revolves around "topics". That is why > people sometimes ask to start a new thread if the subject changes. > That is how you skip the things you are not interested in. You cannot > follow everything. Perhaps I'm being a bit over dramatic, but it does, in my mind, describe what you seem to be doing, You come in and say that the list software isn't working the way you would prefer, but for this conversation, everyone else needs to change how they use the list so you can participate, since you don't care enough for the list to receive email from it for a few days to discuss the issue, or for you to the archives to see replies. You basically said, if you don't do it the way *I* asked, I won't see what you said, (implying that you don't care). Note, In Mail Readers, topics DO matter and they can sort and organize based on them, but then they keep all the messages organized in a way that makes this fairly easy to do. Perhaps you don't realize that the Mailman core DOESN'T keep a history of all messages posted, it passes the message off to an archive that handle that job. > > Most mailing lists labelled as "users" explicitly state that users are > welcome to ask questions. I have participated in many such mailing > lists, mostly for a short time, because I am using a lot of > open-source software. I have not (really) subscribed to any of them. > But I am listening, at least to my subjects. I am participating in > this matter. > > It is unrealistic to expect general users to subscribe to every > mailing list and read many messages before they ask the one important > question for them today. It is unrealistic to hope that this will help > grow a community. The expectation for a mailing list, is that someone with a question will come and hopefully first browse through the archives (perhaps with a search) to see if the question has already been answered, then if not, subscribe to post the question, and read the list for replies, and when the question is answered, they perhaps will unsubscribe. It is expected that before posting someone will look at the list and see how it is expected that a support question will be asked (some lists have a very detailed list of information they want about your configuration if asking about a problem, as that is what is needed to solve it). To just barge in and do it 'their own way' is just being impolite. > > I am not asking for people to "go out of their way to answer in a > special way". I am saying that Mailman should do it automatically. See > below. As I said before in my messagel it CAN'T. Mail doesn't work that way, and it becomes impractical to try and track that. > > If you think users like me, who do not subscribe and read everything, > interrupt and do not really contribute with their messages, your best > defence is to make this mailing list private. However, if this were my > open-source project, I would rather not build such communication > barriers. This includes dropping terms like "spam" or "a person who > basically interrupts" around them. > > > Of course there is the concept of 'Topic' in a mailing list. Mailman, > the web interface, or whatever, does know how to group topics > together. That is an obvious feature, because people tend to > work/participate in threads. As I said above, the Archive, since it keeps all the messages, has the concept of a topic, but NOT a concept of a subscriber (except perhaps for authorization to see parts of the web interface). There is no way for a person to see a selected set of topics. Note also that to keep things manageable, it breaks things up into monthly chunks, to this message won't be tied to other related messages from the previous month. > > It is true that Mailman cannot achieve 100 % reliability, because it > is based on e-mail. Nobody would expect that, not even in web-only > forums (notification e-mails can also get lost). But Mailman should at > least try its best. It has the e-mail subject and some extra headers > to help. That would be enough in most scenarios, like it is usually > enough for the web archives. Filtering short prefixes like "Re:" has > never been a great problem. And threads participated by humans do not > last forever. My guess is, it would mostly work. Try to implement it! One thing to note, Mailman 2 does not have a relational database in its back end (as I understand it), but the user database is kept in a 'flat file' listing. Tracking the data that would be needed to see if a message is part of a topic that a given person is interested in starts to get large (especially if you figure many people will be using this feature, after all, if many aren't, then is it worth it). As to filtering the Re, perhaps it isn't hard if you are only dealing with strictly conforming mail programs, but having had to deal with things like this, there are LOTS of system that don't quite follow the rules and it gets complicated. For an archive, the 'cost' of making a mistake is somewhat small, the messages gets separated but are still there. In a topic subscription system, it is more important, as people don't get messages that they should. 'Mostly work' is often a problem. Computers need precise procedures, and people tend to expect that they do things right. > > Maybe some huge mailing list, like the Linux Kernel, would have to > disable such a feature because of CPU or disk load. But most mailing > lists could cope with that. Incidentally, on huge mailing lists, where > no-one can read everything, people are more aware that you should > address and/or copy the original poster, or they will not get the > message. > > It is silly to ask people to setup their own e-mail filters for each > subject they are interested in, like others suggested here. Computers > are there to help users, and not the other way around. > > Other communication platforms, like Google Groups and > https://forum.freifunk.net/ , have both an e-mail and a web interface. > I rarely use those web interfaces, and they still do a pretty good job > at keeping you in the loop for the topics you have participated in. Note that these are fundamentally different types of systems. Web based systems are a 'Pull' Technology. In general, the system is based on you need to come to them to get information. Email lists are a 'Push' technology, the information is sent to you as it happens. Yes, the pull technologies may add a notification piece to let you know there is information (but those notifications won't thread in your mail reader to recreate the conversations) and the Push technologies have archives that you can go to. It's a bit like asking why the city bus can't come right when I need it, or the taxi/ride share have a schedule so I can know when it will be there and hop on without needing to make a call. Different platforms work differently and have different strengths (and weaknesses). > > Unfortunately, I cannot contribute code to this project. It is not > just lack of time (I have my own open-source projects), but I don't > know Python yet. > > Regards, > ? rdiez > -- Richard Damon From rdiezmail-temp2 at yahoo.de Fri Feb 1 08:36:02 2019 From: rdiezmail-temp2 at yahoo.de (R. Diez) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 14:36:02 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <3675c8ea-a8c4-239f-1d6a-7ef806a1f0d7@Damon-Family.org> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> <3675c8ea-a8c4-239f-1d6a-7ef806a1f0d7@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: <5fe35d6e-433d-dbd4-0e63-a0b83ffb1441@yahoo.de> > Perhaps I'm being a bit over dramatic, but it does, in my mind, describe > what you seem to be doing, You come in and say that the list software > isn't working the way you would prefer, but for this conversation, > everyone else needs to change how they use the list so you can > [...] You are being a bit over dramatic indeed. I don't pretend that everyone else should change their ways. And I do look into the archives all the time. That is what I am trying to optimise away. I just wish Mailman (or whatever associated component) would help here, like other communication platforms already do. Like I said, I cannot subscribe to every list I need to ask a question or drop a bug report into. I just have not got enough time. I only go through the mailing list hoops if something is really serious, or if something really bugs me. Unsurprisingly, bureaucracy barriers do have a negative effect on communication after all. And I do care. I am trying to understand what the problem is. I am trying to convince you guys, because you write mailing list software. This communication activity also counts as "work". If I find the time, I will write it all up in my Wiki, so other people have a quick overview of what the problem is. I am not the only one annoyed by this. > The expectation for a mailing list, is that someone with a question will > come and hopefully first browse through the archives (perhaps with a > [...] I have done that. Why do you assume or imply that I had not? I just didn't find anything applicable. > To just barge in and do it 'their own way' is just being impolite. > [...] Would you rather I didn't post then? But like I said, I do look at the archives later on. This is how I realised that you do have a message at the top dated "April 2024". By the way, that is a bit embarrassing for a mailing list for mailing list software. But manually looking at the archives is just unnecessarily time consuming for me. As far as your mailing list is concerned, you can certainly say that users should accommodate to the way you operate your mailing list. You can start by stating your usage policy here, next to "Mailman Users": http://list.org/contact.html But I still think it is a strange way to treat your users. You know, the people you write the software for. My claim is, that drives many people away. What you consider "unpolite" often comes across as "unforgiving", "unhelpful" or "out of touch with reality" on the other side. After all, you are trying to load unnecessary burden on the shoulders of those users willing to communicate. Not subscribing is in fact a quite common behaviour. For example, look for "not subscribed" here: https://sourceforge.net/p/smartmontools/mailman/smartmontools-support/thread/9e4d58a79814d365ac99c8181eeb35bf at coraid.com/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/04/msg00012.html > [...] > 'Mostly work' is often a problem. Computers need precise procedures, and > people tend to expect that they do things right. No need to be so strict. We face communication problems everyday. Mobile phones fail. Letters get lost. Misunderstandings. Wrong addressee. Server down. The lot. But things are still improving. Surely Mailman and the like can do better! > It's a bit like asking why the city bus can't come right when I need it, Surely the smartphone app that tells you when the bus comes (or maybe Google Maps) does not get it 100 % right either. But would you rather go back to reading paper timetables from the official source? Regards, rdiez From vince at vheuser.com Fri Feb 1 09:05:29 2019 From: vince at vheuser.com (vince at vheuser.com) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:05:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> <3675c8ea-a8c4-239f-1d6a-7ef806a1f0d7@Damon-Family.org> <5fe35d6e-433d-dbd4-0e63-a0b83ffb1441@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <2CC87FEAEA964CF59C1F4FF2B0D3E173@L520> I've been using Mailman on Debian for over a decade on dozens of projects. I've never contributed any code. I've never said a word. I just want to thank the team for spending thousands of hours creating a free program that does such an impressive job. Thank you! ~Vince Vincent F. Heuser, Jr. Hirsh and Heuser Attorneys 3600 Goldsmith Lane Louisville, KY 40220 (502) 458-5879 http://www.hirshandheuser.com vheuser at hirshandheuser.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Diez via Mailman-Users" To: "Richard Damon" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 01, 2019 08:36 AM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject > >> Perhaps I'm being a bit over dramatic, but it does, in my mind, describe >> what you seem to be doing, You come in and say that the list software >> isn't working the way you would prefer, but for this conversation, >> everyone else needs to change how they use the list so you can > > [...] > > You are being a bit over dramatic indeed. I don't pretend that everyone > else should change their ways. And I do look into the archives all the > time. That is what I am trying to optimise away. I just wish Mailman (or > whatever associated component) would help here, like other communication > platforms already do. > > Like I said, I cannot subscribe to every list I need to ask a question or > drop a bug report into. I just have not got enough time. I only go through > the mailing list hoops if something is really serious, or if something > really bugs me. Unsurprisingly, bureaucracy barriers do have a negative > effect on communication after all. > > And I do care. I am trying to understand what the problem is. I am trying > to convince you guys, because you write mailing list software. This > communication activity also counts as "work". If I find the time, I will > write it all up in my Wiki, so other people have a quick overview of what > the problem is. I am not the only one annoyed by this. > > >> The expectation for a mailing list, is that someone with a question will >> come and hopefully first browse through the archives (perhaps with a > > [...] > > I have done that. Why do you assume or imply that I had not? I just didn't > find anything applicable. > > >> To just barge in and do it 'their own way' is just being impolite. > > [...] > > Would you rather I didn't post then? But like I said, I do look at the > archives later on. This is how I realised that you do have a message at > the top dated "April 2024". By the way, that is a bit embarrassing for a > mailing list for mailing list software. But manually looking at the > archives is just unnecessarily time consuming for me. > > As far as your mailing list is concerned, you can certainly say that users > should accommodate to the way you operate your mailing list. You can start > by stating your usage policy here, next to "Mailman Users": > > http://list.org/contact.html > > But I still think it is a strange way to treat your users. You know, the > people you write the software for. My claim is, that drives many people > away. What you consider "unpolite" often comes across as "unforgiving", > "unhelpful" or "out of touch with reality" on the other side. After all, > you are trying to load unnecessary burden on the shoulders of those users > willing to communicate. > > Not subscribing is in fact a quite common behaviour. For example, look for > "not subscribed" here: > > https://sourceforge.net/p/smartmontools/mailman/smartmontools-support/thread/9e4d58a79814d365ac99c8181eeb35bf at coraid.com/ > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/04/msg00012.html > > > > [...] >> 'Mostly work' is often a problem. Computers need precise procedures, and >> people tend to expect that they do things right. > > No need to be so strict. We face communication problems everyday. Mobile > phones fail. Letters get lost. Misunderstandings. Wrong addressee. Server > down. The lot. But things are still improving. Surely Mailman and the like > can do better! > > >> It's a bit like asking why the city bus can't come right when I need it, > > Surely the smartphone app that tells you when the bus comes (or maybe > Google Maps) does not get it 100 % right either. But would you rather go > back to reading paper timetables from the official source? > > Regards, > rdiez > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vince%40vheuser.com From mark at msapiro.net Fri Feb 1 12:13:33 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:13:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <847eek1v87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: On 2/1/19 12:30 AM, R. Diez via Mailman-Users wrote: > > > Other systems can do it. I understand that you do not want to implement > it yourself in Mailman, but why oppose the idea? Mailman 2.1 is basically on life support and will not implement significant new features. The HyperKitty archiver shipped with Mailman 3 supports a "pull" model in which you can read and reply to threads via a web UI. I understand this isn't what you are asking for, I.e., the ability to receive posts by email but only in selected threads, but we are still thinking about something like Systers' Dynamic Sublists for MM 3. I understand that various "issue trackers", including those on Launchpad and GitLab which we use for Mailman 2.1 and Mailman 3, do what you want, and that is appropriate for an issue tracker, but in my view, a mailing list serves a different purpose. If you want issue tracker behavior, use an issue tracker. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From cpz at tuunq.com Fri Feb 1 12:27:28 2019 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 09:27:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <847eek1v87.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: <5ed77209-1542-3221-59ee-d4014dcf2d6c@tuunq.com> To analogize the entire thread- Mailman is a high quality precision-ground Phillips screwdriver, but it does not work on square-drive (Robertson) screws nor open paint cans. The OP is asking that it be modified so that it does; the developers and other users are discussing why this is not a good idea. BTW, I'm not aware of any mailing list managers that will automatically add a subscriber based on a single message to the list, if nothing else, there should always be an opt-in confirmation (prevents false additions and backscatter from forged messages). later, z! From mark at msapiro.net Fri Feb 1 13:36:36 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 10:36:36 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <5fe35d6e-433d-dbd4-0e63-a0b83ffb1441@yahoo.de> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> <3675c8ea-a8c4-239f-1d6a-7ef806a1f0d7@Damon-Family.org> <5fe35d6e-433d-dbd4-0e63-a0b83ffb1441@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <6b3c31f9-3a8f-38b2-9ea2-f25da46f76e9@msapiro.net> On 2/1/19 5:36 AM, R. Diez via Mailman-Users wrote: > >> [...] >> 'Mostly work' is often a problem. Computers need precise procedures, and >> people tend to expect that they do things right. > > No need to be so strict. Easy to say if you're not the one who has to deal with the bug reports. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Fri Feb 1 16:44:58 2019 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 14:44:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <1baab732-ae9c-cd7f-98db-b5e57a3388ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 02/01/2019 01:14 AM, R. Diez via Mailman-Users wrote: > Of course there is the concept of 'Topic' in a mailing list. Mailman, > the web interface, or whatever, does know how to group topics together. > That is an obvious feature, because people tend to work/participate in > threads. I believe that what Mailman (2) considers to be a "topic" is considerably different than what you might consider to be a "topic" or "subject" or "thread". My understanding is that Mailman considers a message to be part of a "topic" if the message has one or more key words defined for the topic. I.e. any message that has SMTP could be one topic, or DNS be another, or Python a third. This is decidedly NOT the "subject" or "thread" meaning of the word "topic" that I think you are using. What makes this more interesting ~> problematic is that I think Mailman doesn't actually scan the message body for the topic(s) / keyword(s). Instead, I believe it requires the topic(s) / keyword(s) to be listed in the Keywords: header. - I know that I've used procmail to scan (copies of) messages and add the proper topic(s) / keyword(s) to the Keywords: header so that Mailman would see them and use it's topic filter properly. - This was a LONG time ago and I have forgotten almost all of the context. This may no longer be a requirement for current versions of Mailman. Suffice it to say that Mailman's "Topic" concept is different than concept that you and I have for "topic" / "subject" / "thread". -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From Richard at Damon-Family.org Fri Feb 1 20:49:52 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 20:49:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <1baab732-ae9c-cd7f-98db-b5e57a3388ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> <1baab732-ae9c-cd7f-98db-b5e57a3388ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <35289717-6aab-02a8-b1cb-411a6d679cd9@Damon-Family.org> On 2/1/19 4:44 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > On 02/01/2019 01:14 AM, R. Diez via Mailman-Users wrote: >> Of course there is the concept of 'Topic' in a mailing list. Mailman, >> the web interface, or whatever, does know how to group topics >> together. That is an obvious feature, because people tend to >> work/participate in threads. > > I believe that what Mailman (2) considers to be a "topic" is > considerably different than what you might consider to be a "topic" or > "subject" or "thread". > > My understanding is that Mailman considers a message to be part of a > "topic" if the message has one or more key words defined for the > topic. I.e. any message that has SMTP could be one topic, or DNS be > another, or Python a third.? This is decidedly NOT the "subject" or > "thread" meaning of the word "topic" that I think you are using. > > What makes this more interesting ~> problematic is that I think > Mailman doesn't actually scan the message body for the topic(s) / > keyword(s). Instead, I believe it requires the topic(s) / keyword(s) > to be listed in the Keywords: header.? -? I know that I've used > procmail to scan (copies of) messages and add the proper topic(s) / > keyword(s) to the Keywords: header so that Mailman would see them and > use it's topic filter properly.? -? This was a LONG time ago and I > have forgotten almost all of the context.? This may no longer be a > requirement for current versions of Mailman. > > Suffice it to say that Mailman's "Topic" concept is different than > concept that you and I have for "topic" / "subject" / "thread". Yes, Mailman has a feature call topics, but that is very different then what the OP is asking for. The Mailman 'Topic' operation basically provides the ability of the list owner to define topics based on Regex's on the subject (which is helped greatly if posters add the appropriate key words to subjects to allow them to be categorized). I suppose one option that might satisfy the OP would be the ability for the subscriber to add a custom regex as a filter. That way they could get it to filter on the replies they are looking for, and ignore the rest. The biggest issue is that regex's are somewhat archaic for the typical user, but it would only really affect people who try to use it. -- Richard Damon From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Sat Feb 2 13:37:11 2019 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 11:37:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <35289717-6aab-02a8-b1cb-411a6d679cd9@Damon-Family.org> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> <1baab732-ae9c-cd7f-98db-b5e57a3388ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <35289717-6aab-02a8-b1cb-411a6d679cd9@Damon-Family.org> Message-ID: <96f05779-8eb4-58f0-9a10-423a3b7a9181@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 2/1/19 6:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > Yes, Mailman has a feature call topics, but that is very different > then what the OP is asking for. Agreed. (I thought I covered that in my last email. Maybe I wasn't clear.) > The Mailman 'Topic' operation basically provides the ability of the > list owner to define topics based on Regex's on the subject (which is > helped greatly if posters add the appropriate key words to subjects to > allow them to be categorized). I'm glad to know that Mailman's "Topic" feature (key word matching) works on the subject. I thought it was looking explicitly for the Keywords: header. That does help some. Of course, that does rely on posters putting proper keywords in the subject. Which is less than reliable. I have long wished that Mailman's "Topic" feature would also look for keywords in the body in addition to the Subject and Keywords: header. I feel like Mailman's "Topic" feature is under utilized. :-/ > I suppose one option that might satisfy the OP would be the ability for > the subscriber to add a custom regex as a filter. That way they could > get it to filter on the replies they are looking for, and ignore the > rest. The biggest issue is that regex's are somewhat archaic for the > typical user, but it would only really affect people who try to use it. Oy vey. I would be afraid of how that would likely not scale. I also see security implications in that. (Running subscriber specified RegEx (code) on a server.) I also feel like that would be mainly usable for the single user that specified the RE. Or are you proposing that the user specified RE show up as available "Topics" that people can choose to subscribe to? I feel like this would be best implemented if the poster added a blob of text to their subject and configured their client side MUA filters to mark messages from the mailing list that don't have said blob in the subject as read. -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From Richard at Damon-Family.org Sat Feb 2 14:46:14 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 14:46:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <96f05779-8eb4-58f0-9a10-423a3b7a9181@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <20190131184210257526.616812da@yahoo.de> <1baab732-ae9c-cd7f-98db-b5e57a3388ea@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <35289717-6aab-02a8-b1cb-411a6d679cd9@Damon-Family.org> <96f05779-8eb4-58f0-9a10-423a3b7a9181@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: On 2/2/19 1:37 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > On 2/1/19 6:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> Yes, Mailman has a feature call topics, but that is very different >> then what the OP is asking for. > > Agreed.? (I thought I covered that in my last email.? Maybe I wasn't > clear.) > >> The Mailman 'Topic' operation basically provides the ability of the >> list owner to define topics based on Regex's on the subject (which is >> helped greatly if posters add the appropriate key words to subjects >> to allow them to be categorized). > > I'm glad to know that Mailman's "Topic" feature (key word matching) > works on the subject.? I thought it was looking explicitly for the > Keywords: header.? That does help some. > > Of course, that does rely on posters putting proper keywords in the > subject.? Which is less than reliable. Yes, I have found it not very useful for a general population list. It might work better on a technically focused list, or maybe if implemented at the very beginning of a lists history, and a large percentage of the readers use it, so forgetting to use the right keywords causes a significant drop in visibility. > > I have long wished that Mailman's "Topic" feature would also look for > keywords in the body in addition to the Subject and Keywords: header. > > I feel like Mailman's "Topic" feature is under utilized.? :-/ > >> I suppose one option that might satisfy the OP would be the ability >> for the subscriber to add a custom regex as a filter. That way they >> could get it to filter on the replies they are looking for, and >> ignore the rest. The biggest issue is that regex's are somewhat >> archaic for the typical user, but it would only really affect people >> who try to use it. > > Oy vey.? I would be afraid of how that would likely not scale.? I also > see security implications in that.? (Running subscriber specified > RegEx (code) on a server.)? I also feel like that would be mainly > usable for the single user that specified the RE.? Or are you > proposing that the user specified RE show up as available "Topics" > that people can choose to subscribe to? My suggestion would be to allow the subscriber to specify a RE just for them, not that it be made available to others. Having an arbitrary user be able to add something to a screen that other users see would be a serious risk. Letting a user run a custom RE to determine if mail would be sent to them shouldn't be a risk, as long as there is no exploitable bug in the RE code that could be exploited with a crafted RE. I suppose you might need to be a bit careful about possible Denial-of-Service attacks with an overly complicated RE > > I feel like this would be best implemented if the poster added a blob > of text to their subject and configured their client side MUA filters > to mark messages from the mailing list that don't have said blob in > the subject as read. > Not sure I would like posters adding unique custom 'blobs' to subjects to mark them as their topics, that REALLY doesn't scale. Just programming their MUA to filter out message that don't match the significant core of the base subject would be sufficient, though that does say the 'get' all the emails, they just don't need to read them. -- Richard Damon From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Sat Feb 2 14:49:26 2019 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 04:49:26 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <79a5ffef-6b35-a921-66fa-c0091045c749@yahoo.de> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <3d8bf840-c253-abb7-e22e-87b5ffba9218@yahoo.de> <23635.17467.666753.682717@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <79a5ffef-6b35-a921-66fa-c0091045c749@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <23637.62534.594788.257459@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> R. Diez writes: > Your comments are surprisingly unfair for someone in a mailing list > for mailing list software. How would you be a good judge of fairness? Have you been developing mailing list software for twenty years and reading the requests and problems of users daily for that period? We developers have a record of considering what others have to say, and their requests, at least somewhat fairly. If we didn't, Mailman wouldn't be the most popular open source discussion list solution. Specifically with respect to the comments themselves, consider that in many cases mailing lists deliberately direct replies to themselves, making it fairly inconvenient to reply to author. (I find it a little bit shameful that Mailman explicitly supports that abuse of "Reply-To", but the demand for it is indeed overwhelming.) Most lists I know of do have a "what starts on the list should stay on the list" policy even if not enforced by Reply-To munging. That indicates that these communities desire a coherence that is harmed by the kind of behavior you described if it becomes frequent. I also have some experience with how such features affect the communities that use them (see below). > Let's take me as an example. But that's the whole problem, you see. In deciding how to improve Mailman, we need to consider not only what some individual posters want, but also communities, their dynamics, and how major changes like this affect them. We think about how mailing lists work, and therefore what they can and cannot do well. The service you want is provided much better by existing forum software and by issue trackers. There has been some ambition to fill that niche with Mailman features (less now that Barry has retired), but web-based tech already exists that does it well, and I don't see how both can be supported well at the same time. > I asked about a way around a perceived limitation, And I responded that it is not a limitation, it is a feature of the kind of community that mailing lists support best. *This* community does support the mode you requested, you know, just not via Mailman. There's a tracker at gitlab.com. I would expect that these days most communities that develop software do. I've thought about implementing this in Mailman and came to the conclusion that you can't have both. No pushme-pullyou software does both well because "push by mail" is basically asynchronous while "pull by web" does support useful synchronicity. Both groups of users get frustrated because they don't get the experience they expect. I've also seen this in practice in groups that move, or try to move, from lists to forums (I don't know of examples of the reverse). There's a general turnover of active posters, with much more specialization in thread participation, and a departure of experts who are overwhelmed by repeated questions and proposals and are disappointed in the decreased information density. In some cases that may be a desirable effect (even for the "disappointed experts", who waste less time). But our mission is to support the kind of community those experts (and many other users) apparently want. > But am I spamming? I don't know in general, because it depends on the community and I don't know where you've posted. In many of the mailing lists I participate in the answer would be yes, if you posted to them in that mode. Here, inasmuch as what you want is technically beyond what Mailman can currently support, there's no problem with posting the question as long as you accept the answer "no, Mailman can't do that and no, there are no plans to support it soon," and don't ask for a personal reply. That is useful to us as we can gauge the amount of support for the request from other users. (Zero, so far.) > Is this discussion not welcome here then? You got multiple responses, obviously discussion is welcome. But I see no enthusiasm for your proposal from other users. Continuing discussion here doesn't seem profitable. If you want to become a developer and contribute some of the effort required to provide the features in Mailman 3, subscribe to mailman-developers at python.org and clone the HyperKitty repository from gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty. It has some of what you want, but currently it's the tail of the dog. To support the features you want it really would need to wag the dog, which is quite possible. Or you can just subscribe to mailman-developers and advocate for what you want. But given the current lack of manpower and the many more important tasks that need to be done, it will quickly become tiresome if you don't contribute substantial effort yourself. > Maybe you are implying No, you're taking insult where none is intended. > Other projects have benefited from a bug report or a small patch I > sent to their mailing lists. I was never actually subscribed to any > of those. Since those are for the benefit of those projects, they're not spamming by my definition, though in many cases on this list we prefer they be directed to the tracker. Still, we accept those here for that reason. > If all this actually bugs you, I don't respond when I'm actually bugged. I just disagree, and don't think the behavior you want supports our mission. If there were demand for it, I'd consider implementing it despite my misgivings (see "Reply-To munging" above). But there isn't, at least not so far. Regards, Steve From rb211 at tds.net Sat Feb 2 15:47:29 2019 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 15:47:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <96f05779-8eb4-58f0-9a10-423a3b7a9181@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <35289717-6aab-02a8-b1cb-411a6d679cd9@Damon-Family.org> <96f05779-8eb4-58f0-9a10-423a3b7a9181@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <201902021547.29388.rb211@tds.net> On Saturday 02 February 2019, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote: > I feel like Mailman's "Topic" feature is under utilized. ?:-/ Agreed! Oddly none of the 'techie' lists I have ever been on enable this feature. Couple of critter lists that started on Listserve and moved to Mailman do. First learned of Mailman back in 2001 when one of then switched to 2.0.6. BTW do not see a "Keywords: header." but do see an X-Topics: FOO. With FOO: also appearing in the Subject header. -- William From mark at msapiro.net Sat Feb 2 16:24:20 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 13:24:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject In-Reply-To: <201902021547.29388.rb211@tds.net> References: <0ae2c9fd-58a1-a79d-6c06-ebc1fef9c92f@yahoo.de> <35289717-6aab-02a8-b1cb-411a6d679cd9@Damon-Family.org> <96f05779-8eb4-58f0-9a10-423a3b7a9181@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <201902021547.29388.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <4c1babd4-74f6-d29d-970a-5ade0aff1ab5@msapiro.net> On 2/2/19 12:47 PM, William Bagwell wrote: > > BTW do not see a "Keywords: header." but do see an X-Topics: FOO. With FOO: > also appearing in the Subject header. The X-Topics: FOO is because the post matched the FOO topic. A Keywords: header if any is added by the poster with the intent that it will match one or more topics. I.e., A post will match the FOO topic if any of the FOO keywords/regexps matches either the Subject: or Keywords: (if any) header or Subject: or Keywords: psudo-headers at the beginning of the message body. Perhaps one reason why Topics aren't more widely used is that prior to Mailman 2.1.20 (31-Mar-2015), they didn't work as documented. This is from the NEWS file for that release. > - The processing of Topics regular expressions has changed. Previously the > Topics regexp was compiled in verbose mode but not documented as such > which caused some confusion. Also, the documentation indicated that > topic keywords could be entered one per line, but these entries were not > handled properly. Topics regexps are now compiled in non-verbose mode > and multi-line entries are 'ored'. Existing Topics regexps will be > converted when the list is updated so they will continue to work. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From konrad.wawryn at virtual-machine.org Mon Feb 4 05:46:16 2019 From: konrad.wawryn at virtual-machine.org (Konrad Wawryn) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 11:46:16 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple domains - mailman-bounces@subdomain.example.com not Message-ID: Hi, maybe some one will be able to support me here. In our Mailman configuration we are using two sender domains: example.com subdomain.example.com In the file /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman I have found only this addresses # STANZA START: mailman # CREATED: Thu Jun 22 10:43:16 2017 mailman at example.com mailman mailman-admin at example.com mailman-admin mailman-bounces at example.com mailman-bounces mailman-confirm at example.com mailman-confirm mailman-join at example.com mailman-join mailman-leave at example.com mailman-leave mailman-owner at example.com mailman-owner mailman-request at example.com mailman-request mailman-subscribe at example.com mailman-subscribe mailman-unsubscribe at example.com mailman-unsubscribe but there are no entries for subdomain.example.com. When system sending messages with sender domain - subdomain.example.com out - then we have a problem with e-mail loop because e-mail address mailman-owner at subdomain.example.com is not known for the mailman and server pushing it to the relay. I would like to understand how its working with multiple domains. Does mailman and mailman-*@* addresses are reserverd only for root domain ? What about subdomain ? Do I have to create separate entry like this one to resolve my e-mail loop issue ? mailman at subdomain.example.com mailman mailman-admin at subdomain.example.com mailman-admin mailman-bounces at subdomain.example.com mailman-bounces mailman-confirm at subdomain.example.com mailman-confirm mailman-join at subdomain.example.com mailman-join mailman-leave at subdomain.example.com mailman-leave mailman-owner at subdomain.example.com mailman-owner mailman-request at subdomain.example.com mailman-request mailman-subscribe at subdomain.example.com mailman-subscribe mailman-unsubscribe at subdomain.example.com mailman-unsubscribe In the postfix mail_log I see that instead of to deliver this message to local mailman accounts From: mailman-bounces at subdomain.example.com To: mailman-owner at subdomain.example.com postfix is forwarding that messages to the next relay. Do I need to configure for all sender subdomains aliases where each alias will point default account mailman, mailman-*@example.com or each subdomain should use its own aliases mailman, mailman-*@subdomain.example.com ? Thanks in advance for Your support. Cheers Konrad -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From root at worik.org Sun Feb 3 20:03:20 2019 From: root at worik.org (worik) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 14:03:20 +1300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fresh install, permission error: Ubuntu 18.10 mailman3-full Message-ID: <984beb92-df48-cead-799c-fe9e30d452b5@worik.org> Friends I have installed mailman3 on a Ubuntu 18.10 with 2GB ram I installed mailman3-full.? I struck a permission error on /var/lib/mailman3/locks/. ~$ ls -ld /var/lib/mailman3/locks/ drwxr-xr-x 2 list list 4096 Jan 31 01:52 /var/lib/mailman3/locks/ This I fixed by adding g+w.? Is that correct? Worik -- If not me then who? If not now then when? If not here then where? So, here I stand, I can do no other root at worik.org 021-1680650, (03) 4821804 Aotearoa (New Zealand) From mark at msapiro.net Mon Feb 4 10:39:03 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:39:03 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fresh install, permission error: Ubuntu 18.10 mailman3-full In-Reply-To: <984beb92-df48-cead-799c-fe9e30d452b5@worik.org> References: <984beb92-df48-cead-799c-fe9e30d452b5@worik.org> Message-ID: On 2/3/19 5:03 PM, worik wrote: > > I have installed mailman3 on a Ubuntu 18.10 with 2GB ram A better list for Mailman 3 questions is mailman-users at mailman3.org . > I installed mailman3-full.? > > I struck a permission error on /var/lib/mailman3/locks/. > > ~$ ls -ld /var/lib/mailman3/locks/ > drwxr-xr-x 2 list list 4096 Jan 31 01:52 /var/lib/mailman3/locks/ > > This I fixed by adding g+w.? Is that correct? It looks like mailman is not running as the 'list' user. I think it should be. How did you start Mailman? Also, issues with the Debian/Ubuntu package should be reported to the packager. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Mon Feb 4 10:57:40 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:57:40 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple domains - mailman-bounces@subdomain.example.com not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52b654b4-f2f4-30ac-670e-8d2abe42cb25@msapiro.net> On 2/4/19 2:46 AM, Konrad Wawryn wrote: > > In our Mailman configuration we are using two sender domains: > > example.com > subdomain.example.com > > > In the file /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman??? I have found only this > addresses > > # STANZA START: mailman > # CREATED: Thu Jun 22 10:43:16 2017 > mailman at example.com????????????? mailman > mailman-admin at example.com??????? mailman-admin > mailman-bounces at example.com????? mailman-bounces > mailman-confirm at example.com????? mailman-confirm > mailman-join at example.com???????? mailman-join > mailman-leave at example.com??????? mailman-leave > mailman-owner at example.com??????? mailman-owner > mailman-request at example.com????? mailman-request > mailman-subscribe at example.com??? mailman-subscribe > mailman-unsubscribe at example.com? mailman-unsubscribe > > > > but there are no entries for subdomain.example.com. Mailman 2.1 does not support two lists with the same listname. This you cannot configure Mailman as distributed to generate virtual mappings for both domains. > I would like to understand how its working with multiple domains. Does > mailman and mailman-*@* addresses are reserverd only for root domain ? > What about subdomain ? > > Do I have to create separate entry like this one to resolve my e-mail > loop issue ? > > mailman at subdomain.example.com????????????? mailman > mailman-admin at subdomain.example.com??????? mailman-admin > mailman-bounces at subdomain.example.com????? mailman-bounces > mailman-confirm at subdomain.example.com????? mailman-confirm > mailman-join at subdomain.example.com???????? mailman-join > mailman-leave at subdomain.example.com??????? mailman-leave > mailman-owner at subdomain.example.com??????? mailman-owner > mailman-request at subdomain.example.com????? mailman-request > mailman-subscribe at subdomain.example.com??? mailman-subscribe > mailman-unsubscribe at subdomain.example.com? mailman-unsubscribe Yes. It is possible to patch Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to write those mappings as well. Here in context is a patch I use to create mappings for the grizzlypeakcyclists.org domain as well as grizz.org. > # Now add all the standard alias entries > for k, v in makealiases(listname): > fqdnaddr = '%s@%s' % (k, hostname) > if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN: > localaddr = '%s@%s' % (k, mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN) > else: > localaddr = k > # Format the text file nicely > print >> fp, fqdnaddr, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' '), localaddr > # Major Kludge alert! > if hostname == 'grizz.org': > for k, v in makealiases(listname): > fqdnaddr = '%s@%s' % (k, 'grizzlypeakcyclists.org') > if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN: > localaddr = '%s@%s' % (k, mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_MAILMAN_LOCAL_DOMAIN) > else: > localaddr = k > # Format the text file nicely > print >> fp, fqdnaddr, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' '), localaddr > # Finish the text file stanza -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From weif at weif.net Mon Feb 4 14:08:58 2019 From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 12:08:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] held messages not visible in web interface Message-ID: <844l9js75h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> I have run into an interesting issue on one of my several mailman mailing lists. Notifications are sent to the admins that there are messages being held for moderation, but when you log in to the admin interface and go to "Tend to pending moderator requests," there are no messages held. This is on Mailman 2.1.15 on a PLESK server on CentOS. Any idea what may be going on here, or how to make these messages visible again? Thanks, Keith -- ---- from my mac to yours... Keith Seyffarth mailto:weif at weif.net http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide! http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar ---- http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention From chip at aresti.com Mon Feb 4 17:09:44 2019 From: chip at aresti.com (Chip Davis) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 17:09:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] held messages not visible in web interface In-Reply-To: <844l9js75h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> References: <844l9js75h.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: <554c48f2-1fce-80eb-2d6e-6dff7ec08c03@aresti.com> When this has happened to me, it was because the poster removed the post on his own. When a post is held for moderation, the sender gets a note to that effect which includes a URL where they can go to cancel the held post. At least, that's the way my Mailman instances work. YMMV, of course. -Chip- On 2/4/2019 2:08 PM, Keith Seyffarth wrote: > > I have run into an interesting issue on one of my several mailman > mailing lists. > > Notifications are sent to the admins that there are messages being held > for moderation, but when you log in to the admin interface and go to > "Tend to pending moderator requests," there are no messages held. > > This is on Mailman 2.1.15 on a PLESK server on CentOS. > > Any idea what may be going on here, or how to make these messages > visible again? > > Thanks, > Keith > From weif at weif.net Mon Feb 4 21:29:46 2019 From: weif at weif.net (Keith Seyffarth) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 19:29:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] held messages not visible in web interface In-Reply-To: <554c48f2-1fce-80eb-2d6e-6dff7ec08c03@aresti.com> (message from Chip Davis on Mon, 4 Feb 2019 17:09:44 -0500) Message-ID: <841s4nrmqt.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Chip Davis writes: > When this has happened to me, it was because the poster removed the > post on his own. When a post is held for moderation, the sender gets > a note to that effect which includes a URL where they can go to cancel > the held post. > > At least, that's the way my Mailman instances work. YMMV, of course. I don't think that's the case in this case, Chip, as nearly all the messages that have supposedly been held are spam, and I have yet to see a spammer retract a message from any other list. -- ---- from my mac to yours... Keith Seyffarth mailto:weif at weif.net http://www.weif.net/ - Home of the First Tank Guide! http://www.rpgcalendar.net/ - the Montana Role-Playing Calendar ---- http://www.miscon.org/ - Montana's Longest Running Science Fiction Convention From raj at mischievous.us Tue Feb 5 00:29:19 2019 From: raj at mischievous.us (Richard Johnson) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 21:29:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses Message-ID: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> I run a small mailman server for our historical recreation group. Lately, I've been seeing messages like: : host al-ip4-mx-vip1.prodigy.net[144.160.235.143] said: 550 5.7.1 Connections not accepted from servers without a valid sender domain.alph733 Fix reverse DNS for 149.28.67.38 (in reply to MAIL FROM command) The addresses "email at hostname" is actually the failed recipient address. The two giving problems are at pacbell.net and sbcglobal.net. I assume their email is handled by prodigy.net. What seems strange is that MOST of the time messages go through just fine, but ever now-and-then I'll get this failure notice. The messages are all sent to the mailing list "cortha at cortha.org". I have the mailing list setup with "host_name" set as "cortha.org", so that the address used in the messages will be "cortha at cortha.org" and replies will go there. The system which is actually handling the mailing list is officially named "peacock.place", but an MX points there from cortha.org. The reverse DNS (PTR) record gives the peacock.place name, since that's the official hostname. If Prodigy is comparing the From: address with the PTR record, then, yes, it will not agree. This would be crazy, since the PTR can only point to one hostname and is supposed to be the official hostname. I believe I have my DKIM and DMARC info correct as well. Personally, I think Prodigy just has a problem with no one else has and it seems to be their own, but I'm wondering if there's some way to work with them? Any help is greatly appreciated! /raj From mark at msapiro.net Tue Feb 5 10:25:27 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 07:25:27 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] held messages not visible in web interface In-Reply-To: <841s4nrmqt.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> References: <841s4nrmqt.fsf@maxwell.cjones.org> Message-ID: <488d27f9-229e-e6df-122e-c0091ed371cb@msapiro.net> On 2/4/19 6:29 PM, Keith Seyffarth wrote: > Chip Davis writes: > >> When this has happened to me, it was because the poster removed the >> post on his own. When a post is held for moderation, the sender gets >> a note to that effect which includes a URL where they can go to cancel >> the held post. >> >> At least, that's the way my Mailman instances work. YMMV, of course. > > I don't think that's the case in this case, Chip, as nearly all the > messages that have supposedly been held are spam, and I have yet to see > a spammer retract a message from any other list. > See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu Tue Feb 5 11:10:18 2019 From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dmitri Maziuk) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 10:10:18 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses In-Reply-To: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> References: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> Message-ID: <20190205101018.9d49a7c3a50af60521036e80@bmrb.wisc.edu> On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 21:29:19 -0800 Richard Johnson wrote: > What seems strange is that MOST of the time messages go through just > fine, but ever now-and-then I'll get this failure notice. Off the top of my head 1) they've a round-robin cluster of MXers in which some are configured differently, or 2) they've transient DNS lookup failures. FWIW I do have smtpd_helo_restrictions = reject_unknown_helo_hostname smtpd_sender_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain on our servers because vast majority of our legitimate senders come from .edu addersses (or their home ISPs) while b0rk3d DNS is a common feature of spam. -- Dmitri Maziuk From mark at msapiro.net Tue Feb 5 12:01:46 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 09:01:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses In-Reply-To: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> References: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> Message-ID: <04ce039c-b17b-a700-db21-2bb14b29ea22@msapiro.net> On 2/4/19 9:29 PM, Richard Johnson wrote: > > The messages are all sent to the mailing list "cortha at cortha.org". I have the mailing list setup with "host_name" set as "cortha.org", so that the address used in the messages will be "cortha at cortha.org" and replies will go there. The system which is actually handling the mailing list is officially named "peacock.place", but an MX points there from cortha.org. The reverse DNS (PTR) record gives the peacock.place name, since that's the official hostname. The list domain is not relevant here. The outgoing MTA needs to identify itself as peacock.place in HELO/EHLO which seems to be the case, so that should all be OK. > Personally, I think Prodigy just has a problem with no one else has and it seems to be their own, but I'm wondering if there's some way to work with them? I would try emailing postmaster at prodigy.net. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pascal.christen at hostpoint.ch Fri Feb 8 03:22:28 2019 From: pascal.christen at hostpoint.ch (Pascal Christen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 09:22:28 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User doesn't get added to mailinglist In-Reply-To: References: <85025549-1251-40c7-4e6c-826f4d26fa2b@hostpoint.ch> <3f721b0a-c539-a19e-c5c8-f0743b9cf32c@msapiro.net> <45768f2d-96bd-ad1c-81d3-2f359ca5feeb@hostpoint.ch> <79d73ad9-1a00-86be-2250-9be06381f195@msapiro.net> <52b0abcd-f82e-24d2-c9f8-011f6fb2487c@msapiro.net> <6f7a9332-b22b-f0e1-c3a7-d78df88035a5@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <10df0a02-92b6-93de-7fab-63bca75957f6@hostpoint.ch> Hi We still haven't solved that issue. Is it possible to downgrade from 2.1.29 to 2.1.27 to give it a try? Greetings Pascal On 25.09.18 16:44, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 9/25/18 12:55 AM, Pascal Christen wrote: >> I got a bit deeper into this problem and I >> discovered something: When I add an user with the mass subscription in >> the GUI I see that the "testtest_pesc.xyz/config.pck" gets written with >> the new user but half a second later it gets overwritten with the old >> one. But at the moment I don't know why. >> >> Our setup: 1 Mailman backend-Server (with all the qrunners - NFS mount >> of /usr/local/mailman), 2 Webservers (NFS mount of /usr/local/mailman). >> So all the systems are mounting the same Mailman data. > > I think the scenario maybe something like this: > > You submit the mass subscribe. This is forwarded to one of the web > servers which locks the list and and does the subscribe, updating the > config.pck. Meanwhile, something gets forwarded to another web server > which somehow manages to lock the list before it's updated and then save > the 'old' config.pck. > > Locking is supposed to prevent this and is supposed to be NFS safe, but > possibly there is an issue here. See Mailman/LockFile.py. > > I suggest careful examination of the web server logs and configs and > maybe also MTA logs and configs to see more about what's going on and in > what order things are happening. > > I'm not familiar with NFS and what it logs, but it's logging may also be > useful if detailed enough. > From mark at msapiro.net Fri Feb 8 10:02:48 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 07:02:48 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User doesn't get added to mailinglist In-Reply-To: <10df0a02-92b6-93de-7fab-63bca75957f6@hostpoint.ch> References: <85025549-1251-40c7-4e6c-826f4d26fa2b@hostpoint.ch> <3f721b0a-c539-a19e-c5c8-f0743b9cf32c@msapiro.net> <45768f2d-96bd-ad1c-81d3-2f359ca5feeb@hostpoint.ch> <79d73ad9-1a00-86be-2250-9be06381f195@msapiro.net> <52b0abcd-f82e-24d2-c9f8-011f6fb2487c@msapiro.net> <6f7a9332-b22b-f0e1-c3a7-d78df88035a5@msapiro.net> <10df0a02-92b6-93de-7fab-63bca75957f6@hostpoint.ch> Message-ID: <7eeb6409-1e94-2a24-66af-c6836bba9380@msapiro.net> On 2/8/19 12:22 AM, Pascal Christen wrote: > > Is it possible to downgrade from 2.1.29 to 2.1.27 to give it a try? You will find tarballs for all released versions at . If you installed 2.1.29 from source, just download the version you want, unpack it, configure it with the same command you used for 2.1.29, and install it. If you installed 2.1.29 from a package, it depends on the package. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From m4tze at gmx.net Fri Feb 8 07:34:01 2019 From: m4tze at gmx.net (M4tze) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 13:34:01 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM 3.1.1 equivalent for bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner Message-ID: Hi list, I am new to this list and hope to get some help. I am running mailman 3.1.1 and face some trouble with unrecognized bounces, i.e. spam messages to the -bounce@ address. In older MM versions, there was a config option named bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner so that (when set to 'No') such spam messages are discarded. I am missing such a config value in MM 3.1.1 - or did I just not find it? If there is no equivalent config option, I would try to change the code in order to discard such messages automatically, but I am not so much into MM development. Could you help me out finding relevant functions? Thank you in advance Kind regards - M4tze From mark at msapiro.net Fri Feb 8 16:37:31 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 13:37:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM 3.1.1 equivalent for bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/8/19 4:34 AM, M4tze wrote: > Hi list, > > I am new to this list and hope to get some help. I am running mailman > 3.1.1 and face some trouble with unrecognized bounces, i.e. spam > messages to the -bounce@ address. A more appropriate list for Mailman 3 is mailman-users at mailman3.org . > In older MM versions, there was a config option named > bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner so that (when set to 'No') such > spam messages are discarded. I am missing such a config value in MM > 3.1.1 - or did I just not find it? It is the list attribute forward_unrecognized_bounces_to. It is not currently exposed in Postorius. > If there is no equivalent config option, I would try to change the code > in order to discard such messages automatically, but I am not so much > into MM development. Could you help me out finding relevant functions? you can set it for a list or lists to UnrecognizedBounceDisposition.discard with 'mailman shell' or via the REST api. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From m4tze at gmx.net Mon Feb 11 04:00:45 2019 From: m4tze at gmx.net (M4tze) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 10:00:45 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM 3.1.1 equivalent for bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65bde9f4-e9f2-3f54-941c-fa3766355131@gmx.net> Hi, On 08.02.19 22:37, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/8/19 4:34 AM, M4tze wrote: >> If there is no equivalent config option, I would try to change the code >> in order to discard such messages automatically, but I am not so much >> into MM development. Could you help me out finding relevant functions? > > > you can set it for a list or lists to > UnrecognizedBounceDisposition.discard with 'mailman shell' or via the > REST api. Thanks Mark for you quick response. Setting UnrecognizedBounceDisposition.discard via shell works. Is it possible to change the default behavior for new lists? Or do I have to update these settings each time a new list is created? Kind regards - Matthias From mark at msapiro.net Mon Feb 11 13:34:31 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 10:34:31 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM 3.1.1 equivalent for bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner In-Reply-To: <65bde9f4-e9f2-3f54-941c-fa3766355131@gmx.net> References: <65bde9f4-e9f2-3f54-941c-fa3766355131@gmx.net> Message-ID: <8254efc6-166b-a607-8760-901dd4b33ccc@msapiro.net> On 2/11/19 1:00 AM, M4tze wrote: > > Thanks Mark for you quick response. Setting > UnrecognizedBounceDisposition.discard via shell works. Is it possible to > change the default behavior for new lists? Or do I have to update these > settings each time a new list is created? Currently, forward_unrecognized_bounces_to for new lists is set in styles/base.py to UnrecognizedBounceDisposition.administrators. There is no configuration or list style to override this. You could change this in styles/base.py or implement a new style. See . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brennan at columbia.edu Mon Feb 11 16:21:05 2019 From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 16:21:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses In-Reply-To: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> References: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:07 AM Richard Johnson wrote: > I run a small mailman server for our historical recreation group. Lately, > I've been seeing messages like: > > : host al-ip4-mx-vip1.prodigy.net[144.160.235.143] said: > 550 5.7.1 Connections not accepted from servers without a valid sender > domain.alph733 Fix reverse DNS for 149.28.67.38 (in reply to MAIL FROM > command) > host 149.28.67.38 38.67.28.149.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer peacock.place. > host peacock.place peacock.place has address 149.28.67.38 The DNS records look perfect to me. If you're going through a time warp to Prodigy maybe the new top-levels like .place don't work yet? You get the error after MAIL FROM because that's the earliest point when a server is allowed to 550. The thing that puzzles me is that "domain.alph733" in there. I don't know what that is. If you're sending that in the HELO / EHLO then that is an error. Joe Brennan Columbia University From cpz at tuunq.com Mon Feb 11 16:39:26 2019 From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 13:39:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses In-Reply-To: References: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> Message-ID: <92a7d8bf-f374-c682-f319-5ac63901d393@tuunq.com> On 2/11/2019 1:21 PM, Joseph Brennan wrote: > The DNS records look perfect to me. If you're going through a time warp to > Prodigy maybe the new top-levels like .place don't work yet? You get the > error after MAIL FROM because that's the earliest point when a server is > allow Prodigy isn't the only one; a friend has an .xyz domain that gets bounced often enough to be annoying (IIRC his bank and one credit card won't they it, there may be others). Later, z! From raj at mischievous.us Mon Feb 11 20:46:37 2019 From: raj at mischievous.us (Richard Johnson) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 17:46:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to prodigy.net mail server addresses In-Reply-To: References: <4B90E278-657A-4012-BB7D-B378774E536C@mischievous.us> Message-ID: I sent postmaster at prodigy.net an email, and again, after the first one didn't receive a reply. They finally replied to both messages saying it was a problem on their side (which I think we all knew already. :) They said to send them another note if it happens again. We'll see... Thanks to all for the sanity check! /raj > On Feb 11, 2019, at 1:21 PM, Joseph Brennan wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 1:07 AM Richard Johnson wrote: > >> I run a small mailman server for our historical recreation group. Lately, >> I've been seeing messages like: >> >> : host al-ip4-mx-vip1.prodigy.net[144.160.235.143] said: >> 550 5.7.1 Connections not accepted from servers without a valid sender >> domain.alph733 Fix reverse DNS for 149.28.67.38 (in reply to MAIL FROM >> command) > > > >> host 149.28.67.38 > 38.67.28.149.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer peacock.place. >> host peacock.place > peacock.place has address 149.28.67.38 > > The DNS records look perfect to me. If you're going through a time warp to > Prodigy maybe the new top-levels like .place don't work yet? You get the > error after MAIL FROM because that's the earliest point when a server is > allowed to 550. > > The thing that puzzles me is that "domain.alph733" in there. I don't know > what that is. If you're sending that in the HELO / EHLO then that is an > error. > > Joe Brennan > Columbia University > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/raj%40mischievous.us From pascal.christen at hostpoint.ch Thu Feb 14 06:38:30 2019 From: pascal.christen at hostpoint.ch (Pascal Christen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 12:38:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User doesn't get added to mailinglist In-Reply-To: <7eeb6409-1e94-2a24-66af-c6836bba9380@msapiro.net> References: <85025549-1251-40c7-4e6c-826f4d26fa2b@hostpoint.ch> <3f721b0a-c539-a19e-c5c8-f0743b9cf32c@msapiro.net> <45768f2d-96bd-ad1c-81d3-2f359ca5feeb@hostpoint.ch> <79d73ad9-1a00-86be-2250-9be06381f195@msapiro.net> <52b0abcd-f82e-24d2-c9f8-011f6fb2487c@msapiro.net> <6f7a9332-b22b-f0e1-c3a7-d78df88035a5@msapiro.net> <10df0a02-92b6-93de-7fab-63bca75957f6@hostpoint.ch> <7eeb6409-1e94-2a24-66af-c6836bba9380@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <1c446cc7-3d92-3e06-2a72-8fb40a51ab21@hostpoint.ch> Hi On 08.02.19 16:02, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You will find tarballs for all released versions at > . > > If you installed 2.1.29 from source, just download the version you want, > unpack it, configure it with the same command you used for 2.1.29, and > install it. > > If you installed 2.1.29 from a package, it depends on the package. > Ok I just downgraded and it was much better. Did a patch from 2.1.27 to 2.1.29 had impact on the performance? Because the performance of 2.1.27 is much better compared to 2.1.29 and that's mayeb the reason the users don't get added because of slow performance and locking issue. With 2.1.27 I had 2 of 100 Users that were not added. Witch 2.1.29 I have ~30 of 100. Greetings Pascal From pascal.christen at hostpoint.ch Thu Feb 14 10:13:50 2019 From: pascal.christen at hostpoint.ch (Pascal Christen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 16:13:50 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User doesn't get added to mailinglist In-Reply-To: <1c446cc7-3d92-3e06-2a72-8fb40a51ab21@hostpoint.ch> References: <85025549-1251-40c7-4e6c-826f4d26fa2b@hostpoint.ch> <3f721b0a-c539-a19e-c5c8-f0743b9cf32c@msapiro.net> <45768f2d-96bd-ad1c-81d3-2f359ca5feeb@hostpoint.ch> <79d73ad9-1a00-86be-2250-9be06381f195@msapiro.net> <52b0abcd-f82e-24d2-c9f8-011f6fb2487c@msapiro.net> <6f7a9332-b22b-f0e1-c3a7-d78df88035a5@msapiro.net> <10df0a02-92b6-93de-7fab-63bca75957f6@hostpoint.ch> <7eeb6409-1e94-2a24-66af-c6836bba9380@msapiro.net> <1c446cc7-3d92-3e06-2a72-8fb40a51ab21@hostpoint.ch> Message-ID: <0584ca79-cf46-0b9a-f1be-ceb50bb568f1@hostpoint.ch> On 14.02.19 12:38, Pascal Christen wrote: > Ok I just downgraded and it was much better. Did a patch from 2.1.27 to > 2.1.29 had impact on the performance? Because the performance of 2.1.27 > is much better compared to 2.1.29 and that's mayeb the reason the users > don't get added because of slow performance and locking issue. > > With 2.1.27 I had 2 of 100 Users that were not added. Witch 2.1.29 I > have ~30 of 100. > > Greetings Pascal > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pascal.christen%40hostpoint.ch Hi again Ok I got it. I've just reviewed the patch (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/379908276/patch.txt) for CVE-2018-13796 and found that line: + longest = max([len(x) for x in list_names()]) So at every request it gets ALL lists and saves the length of the longest list into "longest". This works well if you have 1 list, but what if you have about 10'000? Not very well guys :D Currently I have no smart idea how to rewrite the patch. Can you think of something? For our use case I adjusted the patch and our problem is solved Greetings Pascal From mark at msapiro.net Thu Feb 14 13:11:59 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:11:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] User doesn't get added to mailinglist In-Reply-To: <0584ca79-cf46-0b9a-f1be-ceb50bb568f1@hostpoint.ch> References: <85025549-1251-40c7-4e6c-826f4d26fa2b@hostpoint.ch> <3f721b0a-c539-a19e-c5c8-f0743b9cf32c@msapiro.net> <45768f2d-96bd-ad1c-81d3-2f359ca5feeb@hostpoint.ch> <79d73ad9-1a00-86be-2250-9be06381f195@msapiro.net> <52b0abcd-f82e-24d2-c9f8-011f6fb2487c@msapiro.net> <6f7a9332-b22b-f0e1-c3a7-d78df88035a5@msapiro.net> <10df0a02-92b6-93de-7fab-63bca75957f6@hostpoint.ch> <7eeb6409-1e94-2a24-66af-c6836bba9380@msapiro.net> <1c446cc7-3d92-3e06-2a72-8fb40a51ab21@hostpoint.ch> <0584ca79-cf46-0b9a-f1be-ceb50bb568f1@hostpoint.ch> Message-ID: On 2/14/19 7:13 AM, Pascal Christen wrote: > > Ok I got it. I've just reviewed the patch > (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/379908276/patch.txt) for CVE-2018-13796 > and found that line: > > + longest = max([len(x) for x in list_names()]) > > > So at every request it gets ALL lists and saves the length of the > longest list into "longest". This works well if you have 1 list, but > what if you have about 10'000? Not very well guys :D > > Currently I have no smart idea how to rewrite the patch. Can you think > of something? Thank you for your analysis. I will try to come up with something better than the current patch. I suspect that part of the issue is with a large number of lists, Mailman's lists/ directory itself occupies several file system blocks and the list_names() function, which the patch calls twice, takes a long time, both in listing the names in the lists/ directory and then checking each name for a subordinate config.pck file. We can cut that in half by replacing # Get the longest listname or 20 if none. if list_names(): longest = max([len(x) for x in list_names()]) else: longest = 20 with # Get the longest listname or 20 if none. l_names = list_names() if l_names: longest = max([len(x) for x in l_names]) else: longest = 20 That may help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com Fri Feb 15 12:40:13 2019 From: mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:40:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests? Message-ID: I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18 installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due to some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending the moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible in the web UI. The pending.pck file for the list has this unilluminating content: # ../../bin/dumpdb pending.pck [----- start pickle file -----] <----- start object 1 -----> { 'evictions': { 'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': 1550223270.461477}, 'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': ('H', 2440), 'version': 2} [----- end pickle file -----] Python is not a language I use much so I'm not sure what the daily 'checkdbs' script is seeing that makes it think there's a pending issue or what exactly the contents of that pending.pck means, although I expect it is relevant. The other 3 lists that were migrated in the same way at the same time which did not have pending issues have similar pending.pck contents but DO NOT generate the phantom notifications. My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am not sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated. -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole From mark at msapiro.net Sat Feb 16 13:00:42 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 10:00:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ee31fa8-f5db-19d3-320f-a59916c80b66@msapiro.net> On 2/15/19 9:40 AM, Bill Cole wrote: > I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18 > installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running > Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending > moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with > because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due to > some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list > name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending the > moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible in > the web UI. The notice is coming from the old install. See . > My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am not sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated. It's safe, but it won't help for two reasons. The reminder is not coming from the cPanel Mailman, and the relevant file is requests.pck (moderator requests), not pending.pck (pending confirmations). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brian at emwd.com Sat Feb 16 12:55:17 2019 From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 12:55:17 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1bc301d4c620$c7644f40$562cedc0$@emwd.com> Check the headers of the request to make sure it is not coming from your older server. I run all of my clients' lists on cPanel servers and have done hundreds of migrations from other servers. The times that clients' reported phantom moderated notifications, all were coming from their previous server. cPanel has great tools for monitoring list traffic btw. It is the main reason why I run all of my 2.1 lists on cPanel servers. Have a great day! Brian Carpenter EMWD.com brian at emwd.com -----Original Message----- From: Mailman-Users On Behalf Of Bill Cole Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 12:40 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests? I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18 installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due to some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending the moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible in the web UI. The pending.pck file for the list has this unilluminating content: # ../../bin/dumpdb pending.pck [----- start pickle file -----] <----- start object 1 -----> { 'evictions': { 'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': 1550223270.461477}, 'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': ('H', 2440), 'version': 2} [----- end pickle file -----] Python is not a language I use much so I'm not sure what the daily 'checkdbs' script is seeing that makes it think there's a pending issue or what exactly the contents of that pending.pck means, although I expect it is relevant. The other 3 lists that were migrated in the same way at the same time which did not have pending issues have similar pending.pck contents but DO NOT generate the phantom notifications. My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am not sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated. -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com From mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com Sat Feb 16 14:37:00 2019 From: mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 14:37:00 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests? In-Reply-To: <2ee31fa8-f5db-19d3-320f-a59916c80b66@msapiro.net> References: <2ee31fa8-f5db-19d3-320f-a59916c80b66@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <0C192270-9BFF-4449-A471-B3D990376E74@billmail.scconsult.com> On 16 Feb 2019, at 13:00, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/15/19 9:40 AM, Bill Cole wrote: >> I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18 >> installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running >> Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending >> moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with >> because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due >> to >> some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list >> name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending >> the >> moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible >> in >> the web UI. > > > The notice is coming from the old install. See > . I guess that I am not the first person to make this mistake. I had actually considered that, but since the notices were going to the list owner and I'm just the mail janitor^Wadmin and I could see them in the log on the new system, I ruled that out without actually getting the list owner trained on how to get headers out of Outlook... Of course, the reason they were in the log was that they were being sent to list-owner@ and further obfuscating matters, the old host was and still is the exterior gateway for mail inbound and outbound. >> My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am >> not sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated. > > It's safe, but it won't help for two reasons. The reminder is not > coming > from the cPanel Mailman, and the relevant file is requests.pck > (moderator requests), not pending.pck (pending confirmations). Useful information! Thanks! -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole From mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com Sat Feb 16 15:10:29 2019 From: mailmanu-20190215 at billmail.scconsult.com (Bill Cole) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 15:10:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests? In-Reply-To: <1bc301d4c620$c7644f40$562cedc0$@emwd.com> References: <1bc301d4c620$c7644f40$562cedc0$@emwd.com> Message-ID: <436AF431-B46A-4D98-8A4E-85A64A532326@billmail.scconsult.com> On 16 Feb 2019, at 12:55, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Check the headers of the request to make sure it is not coming from > your > older server. That would have been best but the list owner was getting them, not me, and the messages were right there in the exim_mainlog on the cPanel machine... > I run all of my clients' lists on cPanel servers and have done > hundreds of migrations from other servers. So, this raises 2 questions: 1. Do you have or know of a complete documentation of how to migrate a Mailman list from a standard installation to cPanel? I did the migrations that spawned this problem as a pilot for dozens that need to be moved in the near future and wrote up the process that I used so that others should be able to follow it, but I'm not filled with confidence in the end result and would love to compare notes with someone who has it nailed down. 2. Most specifically, how do you deal with migrating pending moderator actions and subscription requests? I handled the lists I moved with declaring a subscription & config freeze (easy, since these are private lists) and asking the mods to clear all requests the morning of the move, but obviously that didn't quite work because spammers don't even try to pay attention to our change control discussions. > The times that clients' reported > phantom moderated notifications, all were coming from their previous > server. Still batting 1.000 :) > cPanel has great tools for monitoring list traffic btw. It is the main > reason why I run all of my 2.1 lists on cPanel servers. I need to look more closely at those at some point. The company I'm doing this for mostly leaves all the list administration to their customer listowners, and I am a bit leery of presenting those not-so-technical folk with a whole new interface doing things they never knew they might have wanted. I have pared down a feature package for cPanel to make it reasonable to present them with a non-bewildering UI for managing via cPanel, but for now I'm just trying to make the migrations as painless as possible. Thanks for the help! -- Bill Cole bill at scconsult.com or billcole at apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole From pshute at nuw.org.au Fri Feb 22 13:33:48 2019 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 05:33:48 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? Message-ID: Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message to held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I can't find it in the admin interface. Peter Shute From Richard at Damon-Family.org Fri Feb 22 14:57:57 2019 From: Richard at Damon-Family.org (Richard Damon) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:57:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/22/19 1:33 PM, Peter Shute wrote: > Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message to > held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I can't > find it in the admin interface. > > Peter Shute For Mailman 2 (not sure about Mailman 3) you can add a filter based on the subject of the message, but not the body. The filters are entered on Privacy Options / Spam Filters. They are "Regular Expressions" and can filter on any header of the message, I use filters of the form: ^subject:.*keyword The ^ says this must be at the start of the header line, so doesn't match things headers like X-Subject The .* says that you can have any assortment of characters between the Subject: header and the word in question -- Richard Damon From jimpop at domainmail.org Fri Feb 22 14:51:03 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:51:03 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On February 22, 2019 6:33:48 PM UTC, Peter Shute wrote: >Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message >to >held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I >can't >find it in the admin interface. > It's under Privacy Options -> Spam Filters. Set a regex for whatever you want to catch, set the action to Hold. Ex: Subject: .*[Oo]ut.*[Oo]ffice.* hth, -Jim P. From mark at msapiro.net Fri Feb 22 14:59:26 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 11:59:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4930e401-8c79-dad2-e318-178ce159ed86@msapiro.net> On 2/22/19 10:33 AM, Peter Shute wrote: > Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message to > held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I can't > find it in the admin interface. If you mean keywords in the message body, you need a custom handler for this. See . If you mean keywords in various message headers you can use Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules for that. If you use, e.g., SpamAssassin, you could also create a SpamAssassin rule to look for your body keywords and use SpamAssassin's add_header option to add a header that would indicate if your rule hit and look for that in header_filter_rules. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From pshute at nuw.org.au Fri Feb 22 16:04:15 2019 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 08:04:15 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks. I assume that will work on subject lines, will it also allow filtering on the message body? If not, is there any way to do that? On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 at 7:00 am, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users < mailman-users at python.org> wrote: > > > On February 22, 2019 6:33:48 PM UTC, Peter Shute > wrote: > >Is it possible to specify keywords that will cause a matching message > >to > >held for moderation? I thought I'd seen something like this, but I > >can't > >find it in the admin interface. > > > > > It's under Privacy Options -> Spam Filters. > > Set a regex for whatever you want to catch, set the action to Hold. > > Ex: > > Subject: .*[Oo]ut.*[Oo]ffice.* > > > hth, > > -Jim P. > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au > From jimpop at domainmail.org Fri Feb 22 16:24:44 2019 From: jimpop at domainmail.org (Jim Popovitch) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 16:24:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1550870684.5571.1.camel@domainmail.org> On Sat, 2019-02-23 at 08:04 +1100, Peter Shute wrote: > Thanks. I assume that will work on subject lines, will it also > allow filtering on the message body? If not, is there any way > to do that? It won't work on msg body text. To do that you would need a custom handler (Mark sent that in his email), or use something like SpamAssassin and specify the SpamAssassin header like so: X-Spam-Status:.*LIKELY_SPAM_BODY Or as Mark also stated, you can write a custom SpamAssassin rule to add headers for your own body matches. -Jim P. From pshute at nuw.org.au Fri Feb 22 18:02:43 2019 From: pshute at nuw.org.au (Peter Shute) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 10:02:43 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating if keywords mentioned? In-Reply-To: <1550870684.5571.1.camel@domainmail.org> References: <1550870684.5571.1.camel@domainmail.org> Message-ID: Ok, thanks to you both, that should get us by. On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 at 9:05 am, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users < mailman-users at python.org> wrote: > On Sat, 2019-02-23 at 08:04 +1100, Peter Shute wrote: > > Thanks. I assume that will work on subject lines, will it also > > allow filtering on the message body? If not, is there any way > > to do that? > > It won't work on msg body text. To do that you would need a custom > handler (Mark sent that in his email), or use something like > SpamAssassin and specify the SpamAssassin header like so: > > X-Spam-Status:.*LIKELY_SPAM_BODY > > Or as Mark also stated, you can write a custom SpamAssassin rule to add > headers for your own body matches. > > -Jim P. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pshute%40nuw.org.au > From karrageorgiou.giannis at yahoo.com Sat Feb 23 05:48:13 2019 From: karrageorgiou.giannis at yahoo.com (karrageorgiou giannis) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 10:48:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mailman-Users] get a (limitted) copy of messages discarded due to spam filters References: <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056@mail.yahoo.com> dear mailman people, I have a public list and try to trim the inevitable spam with rules that look reasonable but I am not completely sure they won't backfire for legit mails (e.g. consider sender names as fictitious when having 20+ consecutive letters) I was thinking of receiving a copy of the discarded messages for sometime, until I am sure the rule is fair, and manually forward as myself a mistakenly dropped text (preferably get the text/plain part only; still drop them automatically (attachments and all), as most are expected to be spam, not deserving to store and hold for approval) (notice that mailman is used as testbed. The regexrule (when verified) would go to postix drop ruleset, so mailman won't even be bothered) is this possible with mailman? I didn't see something relevant in the web-interface (but I might have missed it; sorry to bother you if so) thanks beforehand for any clue giannis From mark at msapiro.net Sat Feb 23 15:13:19 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 12:13:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] get a (limitted) copy of messages discarded due to spam filters In-Reply-To: <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2/23/19 2:48 AM, karrageorgiou giannis via Mailman-Users wrote: > > I was thinking of receiving a copy of the discarded > messages for sometime, until I am sure the rule is > fair, and manually forward as myself a mistakenly > dropped text > > (preferably get the text/plain part only; still drop them > automatically (attachments and all), as most are expected > to be spam, not deserving to store and hold for approval) I assume you are using header_filter_rules, but in any case, there is no way to automatically forward a discarded message. The best you can do is hold the message for approval and then examine or discard and forward it from the admindb interface. If you don't want to hold the message, you'd need to modify the code in Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py to forward what you want before raising Errors.DiscardMessage. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Mon Feb 25 03:56:18 2019 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:56:18 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] get a (limitted) copy of messages discarded due to spam filters In-Reply-To: <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1484506328.4003430.1550918893056@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <23667.44466.840998.945829@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> karrageorgiou giannis via Mailman-Users writes: > I was thinking of receiving a copy of the discarded > messages for sometime, until I am sure the rule is > fair, and manually forward as myself a mistakenly > dropped text I think Mark already alluded to this, but here are the details. In Mailman 2, Privacy Options -> Spam Filters enter regexp in the box, set to hold It doesn't do exactly what you want (no stripping, holds the message rather than discarding, and it will send notifications to the list moderators). But it might be better than nothing. > (preferably get the text/plain part only; still drop them > automatically (attachments and all), as most are expected > to be spam, not deserving to store and hold for approval) Not sure about this. I believe the spam filtering occurs before message editing. From odhiambo at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 02:59:40 2019 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 10:59:40 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot Message-ID: Server: Ubuntu 18.01 I have followed these: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node42.html % update-rc.d mailman defaults But still, mailman doesn't start on reboot. Nothing in the logs suggest any reason. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de Tue Feb 26 07:14:13 2019 From: mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de (mailman-admin) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 13:14:13 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Am 26.02.19 um 08:59 schrieb Odhiambo Washington: > Server: Ubuntu 18.01 > > I have followed these: > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node42.html > > % update-rc.d mailman defaults > > But still, mailman doesn't start on reboot. > > Nothing in the logs suggest any reason. > Ubuntu 18.04 is a systemd based distro. Per default it is not using system V init system anymore. Check systemd-sysv-generator for getting those running. Kind regards, Christian Mack From odhiambo at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 08:56:35 2019 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 16:56:35 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 15:23, mailman-admin wrote: > Am 26.02.19 um 08:59 schrieb Odhiambo Washington: > > Server: Ubuntu 18.01 > > > > I have followed these: > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node42.html > > > > % update-rc.d mailman defaults > > > > But still, mailman doesn't start on reboot. > > > > Nothing in the logs suggest any reason. > > > > Ubuntu 18.04 is a systemd based distro. > Per default it is not using system V init system anymore. > > Check systemd-sysv-generator for getting those running. > The man page for systemd-sysv-generator is ... well, let me not say. Let me Google. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From danjde at msw.it Mon Feb 25 11:51:32 2019 From: danjde at msw.it (Davide Marchi) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:51:32 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix relay_domains and MySQL tables (uncertainties of the beginner) Message-ID: <39950eaccf479139467ddde525ba9185@msw.it> Hi Friends, I've just installed Mailman 2.1.23 on Debian Stretch, Postfix+Dovecot with "virtual_domains" "virtual_users" "virtual_aliases" on MySQL, and all seems works fine, but not tested again. I write you for clarification before to start. I'm not shure about the Postfix option: postconf -e 'relay_domains = lists.example.com' I'm using this mail server as a normal mail server and not just for Mailman only, so I would not like this parameter to create problems with sending / receiving mail from other users (outside Mailman) And again since I have not read anything on the net about it, could be create any Mailman problems if I use MySQL as described above? 1) virtual_domains table for holds the list of domains that I will use as virtual_mailbox_domains in Postfix: " user = mailuser password = 123456789 hosts = 127.0.0.1 dbname = mailserver query = SELECT 1 FROM virtual_domains WHERE name='%s' " 2) virtual_users the table contains information about my users which is mapping email addresses (virtual_mailbox_maps) to the location of the user?s mailbox in Postfix: " user = mailuser password = 123456789 hosts = 127.0.0.1 dbname = mailserver query = SELECT 1 FROM virtual_users WHERE email='%s' " 3) virtual_aliases table for mapping that information about my users for forwarding emails from one email address to others (virtual_alias_maps mapping) " user = mailuser password = 123456789 hosts = 127.0.0.1 dbname = mailserver query = SELECT destination FROM virtual_aliases WHERE source='%s' " 4) and last but not last "/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf" for the latter mapping: " user = mailuser password = 123456789 hosts = 127.0.0.1 dbname = mailserver query = SELECT email FROM virtual_users WHERE email='%s' " virtual_alias_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual-alias-maps.cf,mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-email2email.cf Many many thanks to all! Davide From mark at msapiro.net Tue Feb 26 11:24:18 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 08:24:18 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/26/19 5:56 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 15:23, mailman-admin > wrote: > >> Am 26.02.19 um 08:59 schrieb Odhiambo Washington: >>> Server: Ubuntu 18.01 >>> >>> I have followed these: >>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node42.html >>> >>> % update-rc.d mailman defaults >>> >>> But still, mailman doesn't start on reboot. >>> >>> Nothing in the logs suggest any reason. >>> >> >> Ubuntu 18.04 is a systemd based distro. >> Per default it is not using system V init system anymore. >> >> Check systemd-sysv-generator for getting those running. >> > > The man page for systemd-sysv-generator is ... well, let me not say. systemd-sysv-generator runs at boot to generate temporary systemd services from /etc/init.d/* scripts for backwards compatibility with SysV init. If you have copied the init script from misc/mailman to /etc/init.d/mailman, it should work with systemd. Note that the script is misc/mailman, not scripts/mailman as it says in the manual. (I'm fixing that.) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mark at msapiro.net Tue Feb 26 12:38:41 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 09:38:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix relay_domains and MySQL tables (uncertainties of the beginner) In-Reply-To: <39950eaccf479139467ddde525ba9185@msw.it> References: <39950eaccf479139467ddde525ba9185@msw.it> Message-ID: <76e2d00c-0062-81f8-e128-9a11066d2f14@msapiro.net> On 2/25/19 8:51 AM, Davide Marchi wrote: > Hi Friends, > I've just installed Mailman 2.1.23 on Debian Stretch, Postfix+Dovecot > with "virtual_domains" "virtual_users" "virtual_aliases" on MySQL, and > all seems works fine, but not tested again. > I write you for clarification before to start. > > I'm not shure about the Postfix option: > > postconf -e 'relay_domains = lists.example.com' This looks like Debian stuff and probably has to do with postfix_to_mailman.py. Please see and . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From odhiambo at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 04:45:47 2019 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:45:47 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 19:24, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/26/19 5:56 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 15:23, mailman-admin < > mailman-admin at uni-konstanz.de> > > wrote: > > > >> Am 26.02.19 um 08:59 schrieb Odhiambo Washington: > >>> Server: Ubuntu 18.01 > >>> > >>> I have followed these: > >>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node42.html > >>> > >>> % update-rc.d mailman defaults > >>> > >>> But still, mailman doesn't start on reboot. > >>> > >>> Nothing in the logs suggest any reason. > >>> > >> > >> Ubuntu 18.04 is a systemd based distro. > >> Per default it is not using system V init system anymore. > >> > >> Check systemd-sysv-generator for getting those running. > >> > > > > The man page for systemd-sysv-generator is ... well, let me not say. > > > > systemd-sysv-generator runs at boot to generate temporary systemd > services from /etc/init.d/* scripts for backwards compatibility with > SysV init. > > If you have copied the init script from misc/mailman to > /etc/init.d/mailman, it should work with systemd. Note that the script > is misc/mailman, not scripts/mailman as it says in the manual. (I'm > fixing that.) > > The script in misc/ is the only one named mailman though. There is none in scripts/. I copied that into etc/init.d/ and rebooted, but mailman did not come up still. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From Jeffrey.Westgate at arkansas.gov Wed Feb 27 11:01:54 2019 From: Jeffrey.Westgate at arkansas.gov (Jeffrey Westgate) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:01:54 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Help? We have been running the list server on port 80 for ... years. Yesterday we created an ssl certificate, and move the http to https. Seems to be going fine, except for a few thing -- when a list owner tends to the moderator requests, and hits the Submit All Data button... depending on the browser, it says it is going to send the information over an insecure connection.... and nothing happens results-wise - the request is not handled. Is there some config we need to change in mailman to secure it properly? -- Jeff Westgate DIS UNIX/Linux System Administrator Facebook|Twitter|Linkedin From david at midrange.com Wed Feb 27 11:13:08 2019 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:13:08 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82d99835-15be-1765-4197-01fc6477a7cc@midrange.com> On 2/27/2019 10:01 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote: > when a list owner tends to the moderator requests, and hits the > Submit All Data button... depending on the browser, it says it is > going to send the information over an insecure connection.... and > nothing happens results-wise - the request is not handled. > > Is there some config we need to change in mailman to secure it > properly? What is the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN setting in mm_cfg.py? I've got mine set to ... DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/' ... so all URL's go to https. david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://mideml.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 11:19:28 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:19:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/27/19 1:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >> > The script in misc/ is the only one named mailman though. There is none in > scripts/. That was a mistake in the manual. It is now fixed. See . > I copied that into etc/init.d/ and rebooted, but mailman did not come up > still. You may need 'chmod +x etc/init.d/'. What does 'systemctl status mailman' show? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Feb 27 11:11:50 2019 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:11:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting archives, default sender addresses Message-ID: <02fd9fa2-d3a2-ff1c-7fcc-44acf8b360fa@neurotica.com> Hi folks. I'm a longtime Mailman 2 user, working with Mailman 3 for the first time (specifically v3.1.1) and things are going pretty well so far. I don't particularly like having to run it under Linux (we're a Solaris-based outfit) but I bit the bullet and built a VM for it. I've hit two little snags, though. First, I created a test list and exercised it a bit, then deleted it...the archives are still in Hyperkitty, though. How can I delete those? Second, address confirmation emails are coming from postorius at localhost.local. I've dug and dug, and I've not been able to override it. There are numerous archived forum posts about this, and none of the proposed solutions I've found seem to work. Help? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA From Jeffrey.Westgate at arkansas.gov Wed Feb 27 11:48:55 2019 From: Jeffrey.Westgate at arkansas.gov (Jeffrey Westgate) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:48:55 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page In-Reply-To: <82d99835-15be-1765-4197-01fc6477a7cc@midrange.com> References: , <82d99835-15be-1765-4197-01fc6477a7cc@midrange.com> Message-ID: Confession first -- I touch this server so seldom because it just runs... and I inherited it many moon orbits ago. The setting I needed was actually in the Defaults.py, and not in the mm_cfg.py. And it was http. I did the change, pushed it out, and we're back in fine form again. thanks for the quick response. ________________________________ From: David Gibbs Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 10:13 AM To: Jeffrey Westgate; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page On 2/27/2019 10:01 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote: > when a list owner tends to the moderator requests, and hits the > Submit All Data button... depending on the browser, it says it is > going to send the information over an insecure connection.... and > nothing happens results-wise - the request is not handled. > > Is there some config we need to change in mailman to secure it > properly? What is the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN setting in mm_cfg.py? I've got mine set to ... DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/' ... so all URL's go to https. david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://mideml.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 11:58:54 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 08:58:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page In-Reply-To: References: <82d99835-15be-1765-4197-01fc6477a7cc@midrange.com> Message-ID: <8f1823ec-b6fa-fc38-f6c0-8876ba468b24@msapiro.net> On 2/27/19 8:48 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote: > Confession first -- I touch this server so seldom because it just runs... and I inherited it many moon orbits ago. > > > The setting I needed was actually in the Defaults.py, and not in the mm_cfg.py. And it was http. I did the change, pushed it out, and we're back in fine form again. First, never change Defaults.py. Put overrides in mm_cfg.py. See . Also, for your original question, see all the steps at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at midrange.com Wed Feb 27 11:59:06 2019 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:59:06 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page In-Reply-To: References: <82d99835-15be-1765-4197-01fc6477a7cc@midrange.com> Message-ID: On 2/27/2019 10:48 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote: > The setting I needed was actually in the Defaults.py, and not in the > mm_cfg.py. And it was http. I did the change, pushed it out, and > we're back in fine form again. Don't change Defaults.py! Only change mm_cfg.py. mm_cfg.py imports Defaults.py, but it may get overwritten when you upgrade. mm_cfg.py never gets overwritten. http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/customizing.html david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://mideml.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 12:09:23 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:09:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting archives, default sender addresses In-Reply-To: <02fd9fa2-d3a2-ff1c-7fcc-44acf8b360fa@neurotica.com> References: <02fd9fa2-d3a2-ff1c-7fcc-44acf8b360fa@neurotica.com> Message-ID: On 2/27/19 8:11 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Hi folks. I'm a longtime Mailman 2 user, working with Mailman 3 for > the first time (specifically v3.1.1) and things are going pretty well so > far. I don't particularly like having to run it under Linux (we're a > Solaris-based outfit) but I bit the bullet and built a VM for it. A much better list for Mailman 3 is mailman-users at mailman3.org . Several Mailman 3 developers don't read this list. Also, have you tried installing Mailman 3 on Solaris? It should work although there may be some dependency gotchas. If you do succeed and it's not straightforward, we'd appreciate your feedback. > I've hit two little snags, though. First, I created a test list and > exercised it a bit, then deleted it...the archives are still in > Hyperkitty, though. How can I delete those? See > Second, address confirmation emails are coming from > postorius at localhost.local. I've dug and dug, and I've not been able to > override it. There are numerous archived forum posts about this, and > none of the proposed solutions I've found seem to work. Help? That is DEFAULT_FROM_EMAIL = 'postorius at localhost.local' in your Django settings.py. Put your desired override in settings_local.py. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From david at midrange.com Wed Feb 27 12:20:49 2019 From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 11:20:49 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to secure the list server web page In-Reply-To: References: <82d99835-15be-1765-4197-01fc6477a7cc@midrange.com> <1e8d1ba3-8705-c2b2-5be1-2cb0d7f13731@midrange.com> Message-ID: On 2/27/2019 11:13 AM, Jeffrey Westgate wrote: > OK. thanks for that. So I can copy/paste the same line in the > mm_cfg.py, at the bottom, under the site-specific config block? Yes. david -- IBM i on Power Systems: For when you can't afford to be out of business! I'm riding 615 miles (Yes, you read that right) in the American Diabetes Association's Tour de Cure to raise money for diabetes research, education, advocacy, and awareness. You can make a tax-deductible donation to my ride by visiting https://mideml.diabetessucks.net. You can see where my donations come from by visiting my interactive donation map ... https://mideml.diabetessucks.net/map (it's a geeky thing). I may have diabetes, but diabetes doesn't have me! From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net Wed Feb 27 12:36:03 2019 From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:36:03 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34710cf3-89e8-1340-e1ca-340633c861b9@rx7-world.net> On 2/27/19 8:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/27/19 1:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >> The script in misc/ is the only one named mailman though. There is none in >> scripts/. > That was a mistake in the manual. It is now fixed. See > . > > >> I copied that into etc/init.d/ and rebooted, but mailman did not come up >> still. > > You may need 'chmod +x etc/init.d/'. > > What does 'systemctl status mailman' show? > hmmm... I have mailman on 2 systems. One does not start on boot. Referencing the manual link, I have no misc/mailman on either system.(?) Both systems are ubuntu (different versions), with Virtualmin. >From the failing system: root>systemctl status mailman ? mailman.service - LSB: Mailman Master Queue Runner Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; bad; vendor preset: enabled) Active: inactive (dead) Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8) John From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Feb 27 12:46:14 2019 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:46:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting archives, default sender addresses In-Reply-To: References: <02fd9fa2-d3a2-ff1c-7fcc-44acf8b360fa@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <7b084fb0-b30a-836c-a15d-a76566048f4a@neurotica.com> On 2/27/19 12:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Hi folks. I'm a longtime Mailman 2 user, working with Mailman 3 for >> the first time (specifically v3.1.1) and things are going pretty well so >> far. I don't particularly like having to run it under Linux (we're a >> Solaris-based outfit) but I bit the bullet and built a VM for it. > > A much better list for Mailman 3 is mailman-users at mailman3.org > . > Several Mailman 3 developers don't read this list. Oops, my apologies, thank you for the heads-up. I will subscribe over there shortly. > Also, have you tried > installing Mailman 3 on Solaris? It should work although there may be > some dependency gotchas. If you do succeed and it's not straightforward, > we'd appreciate your feedback. The problem isn't actually Solaris so much as it is SPARC. There's no SPARC back-end for Node.js, and the Node.js people don't seem interested in supporting that platform; apparently they think SPARCs are old or something. (There were SPARC processors in 1995...but not all SPARC processors are from 1995!) I think there's a better shot at it now, since they've made it portable enough to run on ARM, but still. >> I've hit two little snags, though. First, I created a test list and >> exercised it a bit, then deleted it...the archives are still in >> Hyperkitty, though. How can I delete those? > > See Ok, thanks for the pointer. I hate to as a stupid question, but how do I actually run that snippet? At an REPL prompt I assume, but are there imports, etc? >> Second, address confirmation emails are coming from >> postorius at localhost.local. I've dug and dug, and I've not been able to >> override it. There are numerous archived forum posts about this, and >> none of the proposed solutions I've found seem to work. Help? > > That is > > DEFAULT_FROM_EMAIL = 'postorius at localhost.local' > > in your Django settings.py. Put your desired override in settings_local.py. Perfect! That worked. I could've sworn I set that last night and it didn't work, but perhaps I hadn't restarted Mailman. (it was late..) But I rebooted the VM this morning to install some patches. Thank you, Mark, for your time and assistance. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 13:15:42 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:15:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting archives, default sender addresses In-Reply-To: <7b084fb0-b30a-836c-a15d-a76566048f4a@neurotica.com> References: <02fd9fa2-d3a2-ff1c-7fcc-44acf8b360fa@neurotica.com> <7b084fb0-b30a-836c-a15d-a76566048f4a@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <0d0fb515-3c36-4415-6844-6b1a1f3fa6b4@msapiro.net> On 2/27/19 9:46 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > On 2/27/19 12:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> See > > Ok, thanks for the pointer. I hate to as a stupid question, but how > do I actually run that snippet? At an REPL prompt I assume, but are > there imports, etc? You need to run the Django management command 'shell', e.g. 'django-admin shell' or 'manage.py shell' or however you spell it. This will give you a python shell and you enter the commands at the '>>>' prompts. >> That is >> >> DEFAULT_FROM_EMAIL = 'postorius at localhost.local' >> >> in your Django settings.py. Put your desired override in settings_local.py. > > Perfect! That worked. I could've sworn I set that last night and it > didn't work, but perhaps I hadn't restarted Mailman. (it was late..) > But I rebooted the VM this morning to install some patches. Rebooting will do it. Restarting Mailman won't as this is a Django setting, not a Mailman setting. How to update that without a reboot depends on how you run your Django wsgi app. With mod_wsgi, just touching the wsgi.py file will do. With gunicorn, I just restart gunicorn. I'm not sure about uwsgi, I don't use it, but see . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Feb 27 13:35:30 2019 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:35:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting archives, default sender addresses In-Reply-To: <0d0fb515-3c36-4415-6844-6b1a1f3fa6b4@msapiro.net> References: <02fd9fa2-d3a2-ff1c-7fcc-44acf8b360fa@neurotica.com> <7b084fb0-b30a-836c-a15d-a76566048f4a@neurotica.com> <0d0fb515-3c36-4415-6844-6b1a1f3fa6b4@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <49232bfa-8548-ee10-4401-0a00b29c0b38@neurotica.com> On 2/27/19 1:15 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> See >> >> Ok, thanks for the pointer. I hate to as a stupid question, but how >> do I actually run that snippet? At an REPL prompt I assume, but are >> there imports, etc? > > You need to run the Django management command 'shell', e.g. > 'django-admin shell' or 'manage.py shell' or however you spell it. This > will give you a python shell and you enter the commands at the '>>>' > prompts. Ah! That worked perfectly. Is it obvious that I'm new to Django? ;) >>> DEFAULT_FROM_EMAIL = 'postorius at localhost.local' >>> >>> in your Django settings.py. Put your desired override in settings_local.py. >> >> Perfect! That worked. I could've sworn I set that last night and it >> didn't work, but perhaps I hadn't restarted Mailman. (it was late..) >> But I rebooted the VM this morning to install some patches. > > Rebooting will do it. Restarting Mailman won't as this is a Django > setting, not a Mailman setting. How to update that without a reboot > depends on how you run your Django wsgi app. With mod_wsgi, just > touching the wsgi.py file will do. With gunicorn, I just restart > gunicorn. I'm not sure about uwsgi, I don't use it, but see > . That makes sense. I was not aware that restarting Mailman would not restart Django. Thank you again, Mark, for your time. I appreciate your help. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 13:45:53 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 10:45:53 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: <34710cf3-89e8-1340-e1ca-340633c861b9@rx7-world.net> References: <34710cf3-89e8-1340-e1ca-340633c861b9@rx7-world.net> Message-ID: <32e62d4a-3e80-66c5-f12d-92cf5bf8a218@msapiro.net> On 2/27/19 9:36 AM, John wrote: > > hmmm... I have mailman on 2 systems. One does not start on boot. Referencing > the manual link, I have no misc/mailman on either system.(?) Both systems are > ubuntu (different versions), with Virtualmin. misc/mailman is in the source distribution. If you installed the Debian/Ubuntu package, you probably don't have that, but it appears you do have /etc/init.d/mailman > From the failing system: > root>systemctl status mailman > ? mailman.service - LSB: Mailman Master Queue Runner > Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; bad; vendor preset: enabled) These are normal. > Active: inactive (dead) This of course is not. Are the ownership and mode of /etc/init.d/mailman the same on both systems and is there any difference in the contents? You might try 'systemctl enable mailman' on the non-starting system. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From odhiambo at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 15:21:43 2019 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 23:21:43 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 19:19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/27/19 1:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > >> > > The script in misc/ is the only one named mailman though. There is none > in > > scripts/. > > That was a mistake in the manual. It is now fixed. See > . > > > > I copied that into etc/init.d/ and rebooted, but mailman did not come up > > still. > > > You may need 'chmod +x etc/init.d/'. > I did that too. > > What does 'systemctl status mailman' show? root at lists:/home/wash# ls -al /etc/init.d/mailman -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2222 Feb 27 12:30 /etc/init.d/mailman root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl status mailman ? mailman.service - LSB: GNU Mailman Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; generated) Active: failed (Result: protocol) since Wed 2019-02-27 12:40:17 EAT; 10h ago Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8) Process: 810 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/mailman start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCES Feb 27 12:40:13 lists systemd[1]: Starting LSB: GNU Mailman... Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: mailman.service: New main PID 1993 does not ex Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: mailman.service: Failed with result 'protocol' Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: Failed to start LSB: GNU Mailman. lines 1-10/10 (END)...skipping... ? mailman.service - LSB: GNU Mailman Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; generated) Active: failed (Result: protocol) since Wed 2019-02-27 12:40:17 EAT; 10h ago Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8) Process: 810 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/mailman start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Feb 27 12:40:13 lists systemd[1]: Starting LSB: GNU Mailman... Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: mailman.service: New main PID 1993 does not exist or is a zombie. Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: mailman.service: Failed with result 'protocol'. Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: Failed to start LSB: GNU Mailman. ... Not sure what is going on ... root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman 2422 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start 2423 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 2424 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 2425 ? S 0:04 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 2426 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 2427 ? S 0:04 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 2428 ? S 0:07 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 2429 ? S 0:07 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 2430 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s 23841 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman root at lists:/home/wash# /etc/init.d/mailman stop root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman 23845 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl status mailman ? mailman.service - LSB: GNU Mailman Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; generated) Active: failed (Result: protocol) since Wed 2019-02-27 12:40:17 EAT; 10h ago Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8) Process: 810 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/mailman start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) Feb 27 12:40:13 lists systemd[1]: Starting LSB: GNU Mailman... Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: mailman.service: New main PID 1993 does not exist or is a zombie. Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: mailman.service: Failed with result 'protocol'. Feb 27 12:40:17 lists systemd[1]: Failed to start LSB: GNU Mailman. root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl start mailman root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman 23884 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start 23885 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 23886 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 23887 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 23888 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 23889 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 23890 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 23891 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 23892 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s 23896 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 15:48:38 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:48:38 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <933acdc1-cf18-538e-728b-c225b5a23f57@msapiro.net> On 2/27/19 12:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > Not sure what is going on ... > > root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman > 2422 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python > /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start > 2423 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s > 2424 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s > 2425 ? S 0:04 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s > 2426 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s > 2427 ? S 0:04 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s > 2428 ? S 0:07 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s > 2429 ? S 0:07 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s > 2430 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s > 23841 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman At this point, Mailman is running. How did id start? Did you start it manually or dit is start at boot? > root at lists:/home/wash# /etc/init.d/mailman stop > root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman > 23845 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman So now Mailmnan isn't running. > root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl status mailman irrelevant. > root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl start mailman > root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman > 23884 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python > /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start > 23885 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s > 23886 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s > 23887 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s > 23888 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s > 23889 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s > 23890 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s > 23891 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s > 23892 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s > 23896 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman > And now you start Mailman and it's running. So the question is does it start on a reboot? If not, try systemctl enable mailman to see if that fixes it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net Wed Feb 27 17:03:54 2019 From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:03:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5a8107dc-d0c4-70c6-63f4-9afffa7ca7e2@rx7-world.net> On 2/27/19 12:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/27/19 9:36 AM, John wrote: >> hmmm... I have mailman on 2 systems. One does not start on boot. Referencing >> the manual link, I have no misc/mailman on either system.(?) Both systems are >> ubuntu (different versions), with Virtualmin. > > misc/mailman is in the source distribution. If you installed the > Debian/Ubuntu package, you probably don't have that, but it appears you > do have /etc/init.d/mailman > >> From the failing system: >> root>systemctl status mailman >> ? mailman.service - LSB: Mailman Master Queue Runner >> Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; bad; vendor preset: enabled) > These are normal. > >> Active: inactive (dead) > This of course is not. > > Are the ownership and mode of /etc/init.d/mailman the same on both > systems and is there any difference in the contents? > > You might try 'systemctl enable mailman' on the non-starting system. > > -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay > Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan I forgot I found the problem before, reminded myself by debugging again... ;-) The directory /var/run/mailman is going away on reboot, so mailman can't create the pid file. The work-around is to create /var/run/mailman with the proper permissions & ownership and start the mailman service. I'm going to compare my 2 init.d files, if there is no difference, I am going to patch the init.d file to check for /var/run/mailman... Thanks, John From mailman-owner at rx7-world.net Wed Feb 27 17:56:43 2019 From: mailman-owner at rx7-world.net (John) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:56:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: <5a8107dc-d0c4-70c6-63f4-9afffa7ca7e2@rx7-world.net> References: <5a8107dc-d0c4-70c6-63f4-9afffa7ca7e2@rx7-world.net> Message-ID: <75082dd8-c9a6-48c9-d849-37152997b02f@rx7-world.net> On 2/27/19 2:03 PM, I wrote: > On 2/27/19 12:22 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On 2/27/19 9:36 AM, John wrote: >>> hmmm... I have mailman on 2 systems. One does not start on boot. Referencing >>> the manual link, I have no misc/mailman on either system.(?) Both systems are >>> ubuntu (different versions), with Virtualmin. >> >> misc/mailman is in the source distribution. If you installed the >> Debian/Ubuntu package, you probably don't have that, but it appears you >> do have /etc/init.d/mailman >> >>> From the failing system: >>> root>systemctl status mailman >>> ? mailman.service - LSB: Mailman Master Queue Runner >>> Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman; bad; vendor preset: enabled) >> These are normal. >> >>> Active: inactive (dead) >> This of course is not. >> >> Are the ownership and mode of /etc/init.d/mailman the same on both >> systems and is there any difference in the contents? >> >> You might try 'systemctl enable mailman' on the non-starting system. >> >> -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay >> Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > I forgot I found the problem before, reminded myself by debugging again... ;-) > The directory /var/run/mailman is going away on reboot, so mailman can't create > the pid file. The work-around is to create /var/run/mailman with the proper > permissions & ownership and start the mailman service. I'm going to compare my 2 > init.d files, if there is no difference, I am going to patch the init.d file to > check for /var/run/mailman... > > Thanks, > John > scratch the patching... apparently something on my system is wonky, as mailman, as expected, correctly tries to set up the required directories. John From geek at uniserve.com Wed Feb 27 16:22:03 2019 From: geek at uniserve.com (Dave Stevens) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:22:03 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email to sms? Message-ID: <20190227132203.23080d68@user-Satellite-A100> Hi, I've been using mailman to send routine announcements for a long time and more and more what people want is a text message. I've been able to discover gateways for individual carriers so that I can send to @..com and the subscriber gets a text, so phone notification which is quick and handy. This has been well received. I've been looking at the list of carriers getting longer and have looked into email to sms services but what I've seen has been commercial and too expensive. Is there a collaborative or open source email to sms project? Can anyone refer me to better information? I've been pretty much just casting around so far. TIA. Dave -- In modern fantasy (literary or governmental), killing people is the usual solution to the so-called war between good and evil. My books are not conceived in terms of such a war, and offer no simple answers to simplistic questions. ----- Ursula Le Guin From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Wed Feb 27 19:46:04 2019 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:46:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email to sms? In-Reply-To: <20190227132203.23080d68@user-Satellite-A100> References: <20190227132203.23080d68@user-Satellite-A100> Message-ID: <5a065a2d-14cb-3f60-7175-0f2b81ed47eb@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> On 02/27/2019 02:22 PM, Dave Stevens wrote: > Hi, Hi Dave, > I've been using mailman to send routine announcements for a long time > and more and more what people want is a text message. I've been able > to discover gateways for individual carriers so that I can send to > @..com and the subscriber gets a text, so > phone notification which is quick and handy. This has been well received. > > I've been looking at the list of carriers getting longer and have looked > into email to sms services but what I've seen has been commercial and > too expensive. > > Is there a collaborative or open source email to sms project? Can anyone > refer me to better information? I've been pretty much just casting around > so far. I don't think I've seen a collaborative or open source email to SMS project. I suspect this is because of the technical nature of gatewaying and / or the cost associated with doing so, be it infrastructure or per message. The only free services that I've seen have been operated by the cellular networks for their customers. The other commercial services have all had cell phones (or other similar devices that interface with the cellular network like a phone) and end up sending lots of texts. I don't see how to overcome either of these limitations. Maybe there is a way. I feel like sending text message is beyond the scope of what a mailing list manager should do. If some of the subscribed addresses happen to be email address that are subsequently gatewayed, so be it. If you really want to look into something to send SMS (or MMS) messages in bulk, I'd look at something in parallel with Mailman. Let Mailman do what it's good at, email, and use something else for SMS (MMS). -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4008 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu Wed Feb 27 20:51:13 2019 From: dmaziuk at bmrb.wisc.edu (Dmitri Maziuk) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 19:51:13 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email to sms? In-Reply-To: <20190227132203.23080d68@user-Satellite-A100> References: <20190227132203.23080d68@user-Satellite-A100> Message-ID: On 2/27/2019 3:22 PM, Dave Stevens wrote: > Is there a collaborative or open source email to sms project? Can anyone > refer me to better information? I've been pretty much just casting > around so far. Google for nagios sms notifications. As I recall something was doable with a basic dialler program and a modem back when, now you can get a GSM modem and send actual sms'es. Off the top of my head you'd put this behind a script-mailbox and subscribe it to your list and Robert's your parent's sibling. Dima From odhiambo at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 03:05:16 2019 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:05:16 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: <933acdc1-cf18-538e-728b-c225b5a23f57@msapiro.net> References: <933acdc1-cf18-538e-728b-c225b5a23f57@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 23:49, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/27/19 12:21 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > Not sure what is going on ... > > > > root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman > > 2422 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start > > 2423 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s > > 2424 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s > > 2425 ? S 0:04 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s > > 2426 ? S 0:05 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s > > 2427 ? S 0:04 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s > > 2428 ? S 0:07 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s > > 2429 ? S 0:07 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s > > 2430 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s > > 23841 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman > > > At this point, Mailman is running. How did id start? Did you start it > manually or did is start at boot? > Manually. I had listed the command lines on top of this output to show what was going on. > > root at lists:/home/wash# /etc/init.d/mailman stop > > root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman > > 23845 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman > > > So now Mailmnan isn't running. > Because I have stopped it - manually. See the command above the 'ps ax'. > > > > root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl status mailman > > irrelevant. > Of course I was asked (or so I just included it) what output that would show. > > > > root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl start mailman > > root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman > > 23884 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start > > 23885 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s > > 23886 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s > > 23887 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s > > 23888 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s > > 23889 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s > > 23890 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s > > 23891 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s > > 23892 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 > > /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s > > 23896 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman > > > > > And now you start Mailman and it's running. > Yes! > > So the question is does it start on a reboot? True. > If not, try > > systemctl enable mailman > > to see if that fixes it. > It doesn't. I have even done: systemctl disable mailman systemctl enable mailman root at lists:/home/wash# shutdown -r now <-------------------------- Here I have rebooted login as: wash <-------------------------- I now login after reboot wash at lists.my.co.ke's password: Welcome to Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS (GNU/Linux 4.15.0-45-generic x86_64) * Documentation: https://help.ubuntu.com * Management: https://landscape.canonical.com * Support: https://ubuntu.com/advantage System information disabled due to load higher than 1.0 * 'snap info' now shows the freshness of each channel. Try 'snap info microk8s' for all the latest goodness. * Canonical Livepatch is available for installation. - Reduce system reboots and improve kernel security. Activate at: https://ubuntu.com/livepatch 4 packages can be updated. 2 updates are security updates. Last login: Thu Feb 28 10:46:03 2019 from 41.215.134.216 wash at lists:~$ ps ax | grep mailman <-------------------------------- checking whether mailman started on reboot 3438 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman <------------- It did not... wash at lists:~$ sudo su <--------------------------------------------------- I now login as root [sudo] password for wash: root at lists:/home/wash# systemctl start mailman <----------------- I manually start mailman root at lists:/home/wash# ps ax | grep mailman <----------------- Checking whether it's really started and yes, it is. 3489 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start 3490 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s 3491 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s 3492 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s 3493 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s 3494 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s 3495 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s 3496 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s 3497 ? S 0:00 /usr/bin/python2.7 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s 3505 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto mailman root at lists:/home/wash# So what stops it from starting automatically on reboot is what beats me! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From mark at msapiro.net Thu Feb 28 11:21:20 2019 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 08:21:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: References: <933acdc1-cf18-538e-728b-c225b5a23f57@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <4a696a32-a589-5293-bc76-7e762bde792e@msapiro.net> On 2/28/19 12:05 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > So what stops it from starting automatically on reboot is what beats me! Beats me too, but this is a systemd question, not a Mailman question, and I don't know the answer. If you haven't already done so, you might try update-rc.d mailman defaults With systemd, this shouldn't matter, but I'm not a systemd expert. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From danjde at msw.it Thu Feb 28 11:50:04 2019 From: danjde at msw.it (Davide Marchi) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:50:04 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix relay_domains and MySQL tables (uncertainties of the beginner) Message-ID: <4c1487a2ffb6983df337d3856999bd1e@msw.it> > > On 2/25/19 8:51 AM, Davide Marchi wrote: >> Hi Friends, >> I've just installed Mailman 2.1.23 on Debian Stretch, Postfix+Dovecot >> with "virtual_domains" "virtual_users" "virtual_aliases" on MySQL, and >> all seems works fine, but not tested again. >> I write you for clarification before to start. >> >> I'm not shure about the Postfix option: >> >> postconf -e 'relay_domains = lists.example.com' > > This looks like Debian stuff and probably has to do with > postfix_to_mailman.py. Please see > and > . > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > Well, I will investigate.. Many thanks for the tips Mark! Davide -- cosmogoniA n o p r o v a r e n o f a r e o n o n f a r e n o n c e p r o v a r e From odhiambo at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 11:50:29 2019 From: odhiambo at gmail.com (Odhiambo Washington) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:50:29 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Starting mailman on reboot In-Reply-To: <4a696a32-a589-5293-bc76-7e762bde792e@msapiro.net> References: <933acdc1-cf18-538e-728b-c225b5a23f57@msapiro.net> <4a696a32-a589-5293-bc76-7e762bde792e@msapiro.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 at 19:23, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/28/19 12:05 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > > So what stops it from starting automatically on reboot is what beats me! > > > Beats me too, but this is a systemd question, not a Mailman question, > and I don't know the answer. If you haven't already done so, you might try > > update-rc.d mailman defaults > That is where I started before posting, even. > > With systemd, this shouldn't matter, but I'm not a systemd expert. > systemd can go to hell :-) I have installed supervisor and added mailman to supervisor.conf: [program:mailman] command=/etc/init.d/mailman start And I am good! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-) From johnl at taugh.com Thu Feb 28 12:01:28 2019 From: johnl at taugh.com (John Levine) Date: 28 Feb 2019 12:01:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] email to sms? In-Reply-To: <5a065a2d-14cb-3f60-7175-0f2b81ed47eb@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Message-ID: <20190228170128.C666D200F70D54@ary.local> In article <5a065a2d-14cb-3f60-7175-0f2b81ed47eb at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> you write: >The only free services that I've seen have been operated by the cellular >networks for their customers. Agreed. They are heavily rate limited to deter spam so they're not great for mailing lists. >I don't see how to overcome either of these limitations. Maybe there is >a way. If you actually want to send SMS, you need to pay for it through one of the many SMS API services. It costs on the order of 0.7c/message to US numbers which seems pretty cheap to me, but I suppose that depends how valuable you think your lists are. Trying to integrate directly with mailman would be a nightmare, but you could easily set up a kludge where people subscribed separately to the SMS forwarder, subscribe a special local forwarder address to the mailman list, and then tie a script to that address that takes the contents of the messages and passes it to the SMS API. (Stripping out all the extra cruft, of course.) -- Regards, John Levine, johnl at iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From ls at proasyl.de Thu Feb 28 08:26:22 2019 From: ls at proasyl.de (Lothar Schilling) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:26:22 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception Message-ID: Hi everybody, a few weeks ago I upgraded from 2.1.16 (as far as I can remember...) to 2.1.29. Everything seemed to work fine at first. But then I found out that a lot of posts - actually far more than half of them - aren't archived any longer. What logging the errors tells me is this: Feb 28 12:29:02 2019 (3123) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xb5 in position 26: ordinal not in range(128) Feb 28 12:29:02 2019 (3123) Traceback (most recent call last): ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in _oneloop ??? self._onefile(msg, msgdata) ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in _onefile ??? keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 77, in _dispose ??? mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in ArchiveMail ??? h.processUnixMailbox(f) ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 596, in processUnixMailbox ??? self.add_article(a) ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 640, in add_article ??? author = fixAuthor(article.decoded['author']) ? File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 63, in fixAuthor ??? while i>0 and (L[i-1][0] in lowercase or [error message stops right here] As I read in a previous thread the reason for this may be non-ascii compliant characters in the post, especially the "from:"-line. But why would Python or Mailman now all of a sudden use ASCII instead of UTF-8 in the first place? And if so: How can I change that behaviour? I am using Python 2.6.6 on a Centos 6 system. The output of /usr/lib64/python >>> import string >>> string.lowercase is 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz' (as it is supposed to be). Any help would be appreciated. Thank you Lothar Schilling